Britain's EU battle to impact Australia

The Anglosphere theory may be nothing more than a political fairytale, but the anti-Europe politics from which it stems will create policy dilemmas for Australia, writes Ben Wellings.

There's a lot being spoken about English this week in Australia. Not the language itself, but rather the political culture it carries.

The high-profile Eurosceptic member of the European Parliament, Daniel Hannan, has returned to Australia to speak in Perth, Canberra and Melbourne. His visit follows on from the publication of his book last year, Inventing Freedom, in which he outlines how the English-speaking peoples made a unique and positive contribution to the culture of global politics and the way we understand freedom itself today.

But this is no mere academic pursuit. Hannan is a passionate advocate for what he and others call the "Anglosphere" - a loose grouping of liberal states resting on older notions of the English-speaking peoples.

Crucially, for Hannan, the Anglosphere is an alternative to the thing that he sees as the most detrimental development to freedom and democracy in Europe today: the EU. Despite the recent demise in the House of Lords of a bill establishing a referendum on Britain's EU membership, the tide is flowing in the Eurosceptics' favour. With elections to the European Parliament in May this year and a UK general election in 2015, Britain's place in Europe will be very much up for debate.

In such a political atmosphere, some prominent British politicians - Honorary Australian and London Mayor Boris Johnson among them - now openly regret choosing the European Union over the Commonwealth back in the 1970s. Calls for a British withdrawal from the EU now have to be taken seriously, even if opinion in other parts of the world strongly favours Britain staying in.

But that's the view from space. The reality is different in the mental orbit of British politics. Europe is an issue that splits parties, so careful management of the issue is required. The success of the populist and secessionist United Kingdom Independence Party (UKIP) at European, local and Westminster by-elections has unnerved many conservative backbenchers. Even if UKIP takes votes from Labour too, it is the conservatives who feel most vulnerable and their politics has slowly shifted accordingly.

Nor is this solely an issue of electoral arithmetic. Many MPs are opposed to the EU on first principles (an very un-conservative position admittedly). Parliamentary sovereignty is sacrosanct, even if, paradoxically, parliamentary sovereignty itself is being undermined by the recourse to popular sovereignty through a referendum as the last ditch defence of British freedom.

In another way, Euroscepticism in Britain is the product of the unhappy nature of the United Kingdom itself. While senior British politicians seek to halt the process of European integration, they also have to combat the immanent prospect of British disintegration in the form of Scottish secession. In many ways, British Euroscepticism is simply a manifestation of an emerging and increasingly politicised English nationalism.

This assertive Euroscepticism affects Australia's ties with two important global - and intimately linked - partners: the United Kingdom and the European Union.

The state of Eurosceptic politics in the United Kingdom is spilling over to affect this country and Australian politicians and advisors must keep track of this British disengagement from Europe.

When David Cameron was delivering his "Bloomberg speech" on Britain and the European Union in January last year, William Hague was in Sydney talking up Britain's links with Australia, seeking enhanced cooperation beyond the already established security and intelligence sharing networks.

Beyond this, the idea of the Anglosphere has some friends in high places. Even if William Hague's re-engagement of relations with Australia may stem from different sources, there is a collusion of attitudes that means the idea should be taken seriously. Nevertheless, certain questions may be asked of its supporters.

Firstly, in eschewing the type of institutional set-up that characterises the European Union, the success of the Anglosphere appears to rest on the existence of a constellation of like-minded politicians in English-speaking countries. Things look quite good on that score at the moment with Stephen Harper and Tony Abbott leading government in Ottawa and Canberra. But such alignments are ephemeral.

The left got similarly excited about the Clinton-Blair-Jospin-Schroeder line-up in the late 1990s, but was disappointed by the time of the very Anglospheric US-led invasion of Iraq in 2003.

Secondly it will be hard to sell the Anglosphere as an alternative to the EU. Most external observers see Britain's role as a global player enhanced rather than inhibited by EU membership. And while English-speaking people share much in common, there is also much that divides.

It is tempting to see the growth of the Anglosphere as a return to a Commonwealth tradition in British politics. For much of the 20th century Britain was in imperial retreat and in many ways the EU is seen as an expression of that reduced status, the ugly sister to the Commonwealth's Cinderella.

Of course, the Anglosphere itself could be nothing more than a political fairytale, but the Eurosceptic politics from which it stems will create policy dilemmas for Australia in the decade ahead.

Ben Wellings is lecturer in European Studies at the Monash European and EU Centre. View his full profile here.

Comments (90)

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Alpo:

26 Feb 2014 3:05:21pm

Oh dear, the English are still dreaming of the Old Empire?... Queen Victoria is long dead, mates, wake up!

It's funny to see some English be so prissy about "independence" when it comes to joining the EU, but they dread of the day when the Scott will declare their own independence.... Me smell double standards here...

Anyway, the Anglosphere is certainly a linguistic and historical reality, but politically and economically the members of the Anglosphere are drifting apart year after year. Australia is bound to be linked to Asia (whether Abbott likes it or not), Canada is an appendix to the USA, the USA are a Universe apart, New Zealand is just an island off the coast of Australia with strong links with other South Pacific islands, and the UK cannot distance themselves from the EU beyond the channel (and now they have got a tunnel that makes them even closer). Europe MUST unite (with the inclusion of the UK) if they want to remain relevant in the future, in this fast-developing international scene. It's going to be bloody difficult, no question about that, but if they fail they are doomed.

Stephen S:

Alpo:

26 Feb 2014 5:23:20pm

SS,Cryptology is not my field of expertise. Would you mind to explain to me that thing about my head? It's not buried anywhere. And yes, I have been out and enjoyed quite a nice intake of fresh air. Is it that what you mean?If not, just be less obscure and address the specific issues in my post.

Desert Woman:

26 Feb 2014 7:04:16pm

It seems to me Alpo that if we take your points to any ultimate conclusion, we are all bound to each other in various ways and barring major wars, will eventually become Earthlings, citizens of planet Earth, individual but with common bonds. That would be a major step forward.

Alpo:

26 Feb 2014 7:49:48pm

You are perfectly right Desert Woman. Although in my original post I am stressing regional groupings, ultimately we are heading to greater global coordination. The more of us there are on this planet, the greater our effect on climate, resources, epidemics will be, and the more we will have to reach some agreements and coordinate some aspects of our activities at the planetary scale. Issues of global peace, emigration, security will also become more and more important. Easier and faster communication will continue to facilitate this. Many things will still happen at the local level and they will vary in different areas of the planet, but it is quite inevitable that the global perspective will increase in importance.

Todd:

27 Feb 2014 2:08:36pm

Alpo, the Poms (people on the street, not the pollies) resent the free movement across borders. It has seen unprecedented immigration. If you have been in the north of England recently, it is pretty shocking how few pommie accents are encountered. But that is not just anecdotal, as the BNP and other nationalist parties are growing in popularity as a reaction to this. So too skilled emigration out of England to places like Australia is on the rise. This is a boon for Australia, but will hurt the UK economy in the medium to long term.

Anyway, I support being part of the Anglosphere rather than just being World citizens because my values better align with Anglo culture. This grouping that the Left talk of...which values would it support? Public stonings of women who are raped because they asked for it by showing some ankle as they disembarked the bus? Life in prison for criricising this World government? No, I believe in many, many countires as that keeps one's options open. And allows for accommodation of vastly different values to co-exist, minimising chances of violent conflicts.

I can tell you I would hate if the World Government was controlled by Russia and China (like the UN). I and am pretty sure that you would not like the US foisting their freedoms on Lefties that prefer to have society think for them. The problem is that, if it was a World democracy, China, India and Russia would set the agenda. Some people would love this (the Left) while others would not. The worst part is, one would have nowhere to go if they believed in freedom or individualism. At least at the moment, people can always try to emigrate to preferred countries.

And I don't want regional groupings, like an Asian Union. Imagine going to jail for 20 years for marijuana. What? No thanks. Our heritage is Anglo-Saxon, deal with it. I want nothing to do with an Asian political system, thank you very much. Case in point at the moment, Thailand. Their systems are breeding grounds for corruption and exploitation. Besides, I think the Westminster sytem has served us well and can continue long into the future as long as we are sufficiently vigilant. If an AU (Asian Union) was ever floated as an idea, I would be prepared to donate to the "no" case in order to prevent such a surrender of sovereignty.

The reason it will never happen is that the right would object as it would mean less civil liberties and individual freedoms and the Left, while they would like the Big Government it would bring, they would certainly not be interested in Asian industrial relations. So I think we are safe from a consensual Asian takeover. The Chinese playing war games off our North West and Indonesia becoming increasingly aggressive, however, should have us all worried. History shows that those countries generally don't do the whole "consent" thing. I hope I am wrong, though.

Brownus Average:

26 Feb 2014 7:58:14pm

By my cipher, I suspect that many in the ALP, would positively entertain the idea of Australia joining the E.U.

Before they next regain government and If, Britain continues to move closer, rather than withdrawl. I would encourage us to consider we make elemental provisions to seek a legal union with our common close friends, the U.S.A.

Alpo:

Pegaso:

26 Feb 2014 10:13:17pm

We should not be joining anything, once you belong to one group you become offside with a competing group.First thing is to become a Republic and show the world we are independent and prepared to act independently, and not allow history to rule us.

Alpo:

27 Feb 2014 10:50:48am

Pegaso, I fully agree with your idea of a Republic. But if you remember the times of the Cold War for instance, even the Non-Aligned countries eventually formed their own group (thus becoming aligned among themselves).. it's just in our human nature.

Abbott for Slogans:

27 Feb 2014 12:18:15am

Brownus Average. You're Dreaming, Deluded or your post is "Sarcasm".

The United States looks after the United States and always has done. Our fair land is nothing more than a commodity to United States corporate interests and as a pawn in its foreign policy which is going to severely test us in the near future. That future being China and Asia not the United States and not Europe.

Aussie is but a dispensable proposition to the United States and so is every other nation to the United States world view. E.G. How's the "Special Relationship between the UK and the United States going since the Brit parliament rejected allying to the US in the Syrian conflict ?

Australia can either sacrifice ourselves for the greater glory of a declining empire for no or little benefit to Aussie or we can embrace the Asian Century and China for the benefit of all of our developing generations. Look Forward or Look Back.I suggest you walk down almost any Australian metro, urban street. I think you might get it if you try just a little.

Whitey:

27 Feb 2014 5:38:47am

Unfortunately, desert woman, I think there is still a conflict or two between here and us all becoming earthlings, and when that next big one comes, I suspect that the Anglosphere will all be on the one side.

RayS:

26 Feb 2014 7:38:37pm

The British always seem mentally constipated to me, regarding anyone outside their borders as "foreigners" and trapped in the broken memory of the "empire". They even see the Irish, Welsh and Scots as mere inferiors to be exploited, let alone us "colonials" who they dumped after we went to fight to defend them time and time again. They even abandoned us when their "fortress Singapore" fell to a much smaller Japanese army.

Europe is better off without them. So are we.

When did Abbott seek a mandate on rejoining the "anglosphere" anyway? When did he seek a mandate in fact on most of his personal hopes and dreams? Has he heard of a referendum? - because the idea of the "anglosphere" would fail miserably.

If we are going to be patronized, it should be by a better pater, not one incapable of putting himself in the position of others. Is this a democracy or what?

christophus:

27 Feb 2014 7:05:20am

Sorry but Alpo is right.

The realities of empire and allies of 60 years ago is gone. What would be good is for some among us to realise none are coming to help in the event of annoying our closest 300mil neighbours (allied to China) like the good old days of WW2.

Did you not hear the US diplomatic rep recently saying John Kerry hopes you both sort it out. The US is downgrading its military capabilities.

You are living in Abbott 1950's dream land. Its the age of diplomacy now. Wake up.

Dove:

27 Feb 2014 8:57:34am

Indeed, WS. There was even a time when it was hoped that everyone would call themselves British, with North Britain replacing Scotland and West Britain replacing Ireland. It didn't catch on, although to this day "West Brit" is an insult in Ireland, along with "Jackeen" (one who waves a Union Jack), both meaning that someone apes or supports Olde England.

Abbott for Slogans:

Leftnut:

27 Feb 2014 11:11:26am

I would much prefer mental constipation to verbal diarrhea,your rant is quite typical of the racist attitude towards the British when I arrived in Australia forty five years ago, sadly some things never change.Please enlighten us how you would have fought WW2 and saved Singapore,the fact is Australia was not invaded and the troops returning to the UK helped ensure the UK did not fall to the Germans leaving Australia totally defenseless.As for the broken empire I suggest you read the Wiki entry.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commonwealth_of_Nations

The Commonwealth covers more than 29,958,050 km2 (11,566,870 sq mi), almost a quarter of the world land area, and spans all the continents. With an estimated population of 2.245 billion, almost a third of the world population,[7] the Commonwealth in 2012 produced a nominal gross domestic product (GDP) of $9.767 trillion, representing 15% of the world GDP when measured in purchasing power parity (PPP). This represents the second largest nominal GDP and GDP PPP in the world.Looks alive and well to me, got something bigger and better to impress me with?Without the UK the EU`s 23% world GDP will fall to around that of the Commonwealths.

RL:

27 Feb 2014 12:54:42pm

The ties that bind the members of the Commonwealth mean as little as those stats. Yes, the language commonality is there but it's all numbers. India is not tying itself back to an old system when it can create its own sphere of influence in this century. South Africa should be preoccupied with its own domestic issues rather than international aggrandizement

christophus:

27 Feb 2014 12:55:38pm

I'm sorry leftnut are you referring to my comment?

Australia was so far away from WW2 we were considered backup or expendable cannon fodder,by British Generals in particular as our direct commanders. The same occurred during WW1, a generation on and nothing had changed.

Australia was not invaded you say.Not quite true of course but lucky that, as the British were nowhere to be seen to return the favour of our homeland defence. The Americans defended the Asia Pacific region for the British. Please get your facts right.

Godsaveourqueen:

starman:

26 Feb 2014 8:55:47pm

I agree Alpo. Countries will have to work together to survive, to become members of a truly global economy but have you talked to any of the citizens of the Anglosphere. Nationalism and xenophobia are well and truly alive in these countries and governments who do not pay heed to this do not last long.

Alpo:

27 Feb 2014 12:05:30pm

starman, the more multicultural the Anglosphere becomes, the less xenophobic they will become. Canada seems to be a reasonably good example, perhaps helped by their real potential for internal confrontation due to Quebec, so they better take multiculturalism seriously. The Americans have this "issue" with their Hispanic population, but their "fate" is sealed, there is no stopping the enrichment of the USA, their life and culture with the Latin American influence. It's up to them to guide this process so that the "Anglos" get the best from the "Latino" culture and vice-versa. In the last few years the GOP have been thorning themselves apart under the influence of the xenophobic Tea Party, but if they continue along that path they will have to endure 6 years of Hillary Clinton, plus six more years of another Democrat president, etc. .... in short, they will become irrelevant. The Chinese immigrants are another good example across the Anglosphere, especially in Australia. They are transforming our cities and contributing to move our country forward. In fact you may have noticed that both the ALP and the Coalition treat the Chinese community with great respect.

Peter the Lawyer:

You say that the British are being hypocritical about Scottish independence if they also support independence from the EU.

Of course the British include the Scottish, some of whom want independence but don't want the EU to boss them about. Also of cousre some in Britain want both the union to contionue but want independence from the EU.

In any case, even if were as simple as you say andthen it still doesn't prove that one of the two beliefs of you mythical British people isn't correct.

Stuffem:

Anthony:

26 Feb 2014 3:12:29pm

There already is an Anglosphere that exists and operates very effectively. This occurs not through government summits but everyday links between the people and businesses of the various Anglosphere countries. Australians naturally relate to Canadians, Kiwis, Irish, English and Americans over other nationalities because of our common cultural heritage and language. We consume similar media and entertainment. Economically, the Anglosphere is also very important. In terms of trade China and Japan are larger export markets but the US and UK are very important in terms of investment in Australia. The Commonwealth is largely irrelevant because most of its members are countries which have very little to do with Australia - apart from the South African and West Indies cricket teams.

Lorn:

26 Feb 2014 4:54:38pm

I'm not sure I agree with you, Anthony. Australia seems to differ vastly from Canada, Ireland, England (one wonders why you chose to not mention the rest of Great Britain, but anyway), and America. We are geologically close to New Zealand, and seem to be fairly similar to them in many ways, but I wouldn't say we are that naturally related to the others in policy and so forth.

Australia has always been more diverse than any of the places you named, and as such, our culture has also gone through a host of changes. If you live in a populous area in Australia you will find that it doesn't feel like Ireland or America at all. We also have very different policies, ones that have until now, held us in better stead than say, the United States. I would be quite frightened to think Australians were closely aligned in culture now to America, our policies are still thankfully different.

I think the Anglosphere, like any 'language' or history based segregation or partnership, leaves many loose ends flapping in the wind. Things like differing economic environments, and vastly different diplomatic dealings. America does not have Australia's sea border issues, Australia doesn't have to deal with Mexican drug lords. England is having landmark floods, Australia is having droughts and bush fires. Ireland has debt problems, Australia has been the envy of the world during the GFC. Canada has debates about oil pipelines, Australia imports the vast majority of its fuel, and has historically done so.

It is clear that since trade with China and the rest of Asia is set to continue and grow in future, while investment from cash-strapped Western nations dwindle, Australia's policies may well be served by looking to other nations and economies around us who would do more to boost our own economic standing.

Our geography, and the economic/trade partners near us should and does make a larger impact on our economy and policies than those English speakers acting in entirely different spheres from us. It's a rather broad stroke to say that the original culture of Victorian England should somehow override all of these newly gained relationships and understandings. Conservatism is all well and good if it teaches us to be cautious of change, but when it looks backwards, there are clear problems for a nation facing the future.

Half Past Human:

26 Feb 2014 5:47:10pm

I beg to differ, Lorn. An American visitor once told me that Australia is very similar to The United States but there was only one thing wrong with our country. I asked him what it was and he said, "You drive on the wrong side of the road.":)

amiens:

26 Feb 2014 6:33:47pm

So your entire premise is based on the thoughts of one single person from the USA. Very astute of you. I'm only hoping that you're being a little sarcastic and that I'm a little bit too simple to pick up on your euphemisms.

Half Past Human:

Pegaso:

26 Feb 2014 10:21:03pm

I agree , I often travel to Canada and despite Canadians proximity to the US we are closer to Americans in many ways.Canadians are closer to the UK than we are, excepting Quebec of course which is an absurdity.

Half Past Human:

27 Feb 2014 8:30:49am

One of the most significant changes to have taken place in Australian society since the end of WWII has been its drift towards American, rather than British culture. As the American way of life was projected further into Australia via popular culture, it would rapidly alter the ways we spent our money, entertained ourselves, dressed and socialised. Eventually, many of our British cultural legacies would give way to new American ideals.

In the decades since World War II, the penetration of American popular culture into Australian society has raised ongoing concerns about Australia's ability to carve out its own national identity. Local cultural products like films and music are an important way for people of a country to explore and share their common culture and heritage. Australian characters, themes and issues, however, are often outweighed by representations of the American way of life.

Television the drug of the nation: Television plays a significant role in forming the culture, beliefs and values of a nation, and the overwhelming dominance of American content on Australian television was becoming a great concern to many.Television plays a significant role in forming the culture, beliefs and values of a nation, and the overwhelming dominance of American content on Australian television was becoming a great concern to many.

Cinema: In the face of stiff competition from foreign, mostly American, products, very few films shown in cinemas during the 1950s and 1960s were Australian. In the 1970s, amidst fears that Australia would soon lose its national cultural identity, the Australian Government helped kick-start the Australian film industry by actively supporting local film and television producers - Thanks to Gough Whitlam.

Food: The influence of America on food consumption in Australia has had significant social and economic repercussions. The supermarket explosion, for example, meant that consumers could save money and satisfy all of their shopping needs in one place. On the other hand, smaller vendors like butchers, bakers and greengrocers were unable to compete with the convenience and low prices offered by large supermarkets and were forced to close. American fast food chains rapidly extended their reach across Australia during the 1970s. In 1971, McDonald's opened their first restaurant in Australia and by the end of the decade there were 105 stores throughout the country.

Sport: From the 1970s, the American influence also changed the way sport was presented. Many Australian sporting matches began to feature American-style glitz and glamour, such as football games where players and the crowd were boosted by cheerleaders and mascots. The World Series Cricket tournament, developed in the late 1970s, was inspired by American baseball. It featured brightly-clad players, night games and shorter match times - all designed to appeal to a modern television audience... and then we had V8 Super

ephemeral:

27 Feb 2014 10:46:43am

As a North American (Canada and US) who has lived in Australia (20 years now) and the UK I can assure you that the Australian Culture is still more aligned with British than American. It is shifting slowly but Australia is far more like old mother England. Language, food, attitudes, the whole shebang.

Half Past Human:

A Phibes:

27 Feb 2014 2:02:13pm

@ephemeral, as an Australian who has spent a bit of time in the US, I tend to agree with you. Australians, while very much immersed in American culture, food, etc, largely retain the values and attitudes of mother Britain.

Peter the Lawyer:

27 Feb 2014 1:24:59pm

Yes America is far more left wing than us, with Unions having more power over governments and ripping off taxpayers. America is also where all the left-wing PC stuff came from that so blights the world.

So if we in Australia don't go down that path and instead stay moderately Conservative , it will be a good thing.

Dove:

26 Feb 2014 3:25:57pm

The dominant culture always fancies itself as being unique, from manifest desity and exceptionalism to Hannan's jingoistic piece. Ask the Chinese about their unique contributions...or the Russians...or the Iranians. We're all fantastic. We're all number one, but someone had to invent cricket :)

Half Past Human:

APM:

26 Feb 2014 3:29:15pm

Sovereignty of borders is also a major factor why the EU is so loathed by many Brits. According to EU rules, Britain has no right to stop poor people and other 'difficult' groups like gypsies from entering and staying for a 'welfare holiday'. Half a million Poles quickly moved to Britain after border restrictions were relaxed. Politicians lied about the number that would come. European Human Rights are very much on the side of asylum seekers. There have been many cases where illegal perpetrators of heinous crimes and terrorism could not be deported because of their 'right to family'. Even this bar is set so low that a one night stand that results in a child that the crook doesn't even visit or support is good enough for his 'rights' to be upheld. Britain has the fastest growing population in Europe and is overcrowded, and social cohesion and resources are buckling under a huge strain. White Britains are now a minority in London. The EU is an overbearing ideological leviathon that despises democracy, freedom, enables criminals, and does little to benefit Britain.

Dove:

26 Feb 2014 4:04:10pm

I think the last census put native Britons at about 60% of the population of London. I'd have thought that even more Poles moved into to both the UK and Ireland, but who else was going to work in the construction industry? Most left again once the boom ended. The real gripe is that once they had their moat and now, for EU citizens at least, it's been forded. Possibly in the sameway as the Britons themselves invaded the islands...or the Romans...or the Saxons...or the Normans....or the Australians in the 60s. It won't kill them.

starman:

Dove:

27 Feb 2014 8:46:39am

White Australians as a minority? Well globally they already are. If we zoom in on Oz, you might draw the same conclusions from some suburbs of most of the capitals. But I'd ask, what of it? I've got no problem being the only person of my ethnicity in many parts of the world or in many parts of Australia. I think we're all mature enough now to not worry. Being Australian doesn't necessitate a certin skin colour.

ephemeral:

JJA:

26 Feb 2014 7:00:25pm

The Poles should not be singled-out. They work hard, they pay their taxes and social welfare payments in the UK. Therefore they are entitled to income support in the UK, if they qualify. They're helping fill an employment gap left by the welfare dependent 'Vicki Pollard generation', and what's more they're doing the jobs that the British won't do. Prime Minister Cameron finally retracted his Hitler-style comments about the Polish, so similar views should not be parroted here. Democracy and the freedom of speech does not entitle one to engage in acts of defamation.

kenj:

27 Feb 2014 12:28:01pm

Poles as Nazis?! I had to laugh. In the Battle of Britain the most determined fighter pilots with the highest kill ratios were the Poles. They hated the Germans with a vengeance for what they did to their country. The highest Nazi murder figures of civilians was in Poland. No love lost there. And what about the Enigma Code and the breaking of the German codes? Turns out the Poles had worked out the methods and built the early computers that broke those codes by 1938. They handed the lot to the Brits and the French when Poland was invaded. This effort alone shortened the war by two years. The Poles did it.

So how did Britain display this sterling loyalty? Well, Stalin had occupied Poland after WW2. The UK had an all-nations march past in London to celebrate VE Day. Well over 100 nations participated -- but not the Poles. You see, Stalin had objected to their participation and the craven British, seeking post war influence in Europe had agreed to this cowardly insult.

Poland can stand very tall indeed. You can't say as much for the Brits.

Nny:

Torchbearer:

26 Feb 2014 4:08:35pm

The last major achievement of the Anglosphere nations Aus-US-UK was the dishonest and disasterous Iraq War; when Howard, Blair and Bush tried to impose supposedly superior Anglo morals and culture on the World.As a gay aboriginal man, whose nation was stolen by supposed Anglo Christians, and where nearly every country with anti-gay laws are former Brirish colonies, I dread any new Anglo alliance.And the economic performance of Anglo countries, especially the UK and US seems to based on enormous and unsustainable national debt.

blax5:

26 Feb 2014 4:27:03pm

The foundation of the EU had two reasons: 1. prevent further wars between the continental tribes that lead to another world war. 2. create a larger unit or US and Japanese industries will push them against the wall with all the consequences that widespread poverty brings. At the time China was not relevant.

We often hear of eliminating duplication between the Australian States and the Commonwealth. This is happening in the EU, sharing diplomatic representations, testing of products, streamlining standards (think regulating trucks carting petrol). This has taken away some of the countries' sovereignty, just like the proposed TPP will take away some of our sovereignty. The TPP and losing some of our sovereignty is sold to us as being desirable, now why is it so undesirable for Britain? I am all for keeping sovereignty but quite a few of the European countries are too small to survive with full sovereignty, and it is rather bizarre that maybe 12 % of the EU should dominate 88 %. But the TPP is equally bizarre, because it excludes our most important trading partner China.

Britain should get out so continental Europe can devote their time and brainspace to doing something productive.

Hudson Godfrey:

26 Feb 2014 4:41:35pm

Alf Garnett hasn't been on the telly for a bit..."It wasn't like this when we had our empire!"

This is precisely the direction I think Australia should strive to avoid. We like the poms, and we want to be their friends, but people who share geography share economic interests and that's what a lot of this is essentially about.

Marc:

26 Feb 2014 4:50:26pm

"The EU is an overbearing ideological leviathon (sic) that despises democracy, freedom, enables criminals" writes AMP. A balanced, well thought-out and realistic assessment if ever there was one!! As a European citizen I'd be quite happy to let the UK go. They have been holding us back for decades trying to impose their neo-liberal, neo-Thatcherite ideology to countries that still value social equity above market forces. Have a look at the main statistical indicators of social well-being and cohesion and you will find put that the UK comes close to last in Europe. So, yes please, go, go, go!

Tax the churches:

26 Feb 2014 6:22:57pm

Interesting comment, Marc.My experience is that contrary to English language accepted as a universal tongue, the UK is not perceived as part of Europe. Indeed, the general public understanding there of the UK is that it's a powerful, independent. colonial military force. But not seen as part of the "family".

People of France, Germany, Poland, Turkey, etc. perceive the UK as a separate and rather selfish entity. A quiz show on European nations there would likely miss the mention of the UK It's that real..

Peter the Lawyer:

27 Feb 2014 1:30:35pm

Maybe the UK comes last in those tables because it has the most genrous welfare state in Europe. That is also the reason why many asylium seekers from outside the EU go across Europe and try to settle in Britain.

PKD1:

MJLC:

26 Feb 2014 6:14:42pm

Probably only strictly true if you're an around-the-world yachtsman or a whale - checking an antipode map I see that the furthest you can get away from London on the surface of the Earth is a spot in the Southern Ocean about 2,000km+ south-east of Christchurch.

Living with/near/amongst Poms has its challenges to be sure, but there's only a limited amount of time anyone can keep treading water no matter how enjoyable it is not having annoying neighbours around.

GrumpiSkeptic:

26 Feb 2014 5:38:33pm

An old man, sitting on his rocking chair, watching the sunset. A glass of gin and tonic on his side. He is drifting in and out of his sleep, but he is dreaming...

He is dreaming of the good old days, when the sun never sets on the British Empires. A small nation of English speaking people, with turbo-charged egos, talked their ways into many under-developed nations rich in resources, and took over the running of the nations!

India, Africa, China, South-East Asia, all did not escape the mighty touches of the British Empires.

Mind you, back then, it was worth the British's while to rule in those countries as there were resources waiting for the exploitation, and the people were simple enough to be taken in by lies and promises.

I am sad to say that those good old days are long gone. The ex-colonies had waken up to the fact that they are not as stupid as they thought they were, and they want to take charge of their own resources. If you want it, you must pay for it!

Naturally, the British still harbour the fire of the once mighty British Empires, and probably want to rekindle that flame once again.

I am afraid the last hope of resurrection has been extinguished by the failed adventures into the Middle East with the USA.

The old man, finished his last gulp of his gin and tonic, packed up and went inside, as there is a chill wind blowing, and it is getting stiffer!

wotsupdoc:

26 Feb 2014 5:41:38pm

Born in the UK, I came here in 1962 aged 21. Reason? Mainly the continuing class-war in Britain, plus the persistent delusion on the part of my elders, that Britain was part of an "Empire". I felt then, that the only viable future for Britain was, as part of a united Europe. The idea of some kind of post-imperial federation was wishful thinking then, as I think the concept of an Anglosphere is now. If Britain (England?) wants to be part of a US hegemony, then let them. I came here to make Australia my home. I would like to see my adopted nation standing as part of its own region. Our chances of living down our past as part of the British Old Boys' Club would not be helped by allowing ourselves to be dragged back into an Anglo/US-centric group whose future viability is by no means certain. In any case, Britain needs the EU, with all its faults, far more than Europe needs Britain.

MJLC:

A good-natured point-of-order if I may Doc - the nation adopted you, not the other way around. You sat in the crib looking cute and it metaphorically filled out the paperwork to take you home.

I only mention it because someone who has been in this country only a few years shy of when I first plopped out into a blanket myself shouldn't ever need to feel they have to describe this place in qualified terms as their "adopted" home.

It's your home - simple as - and we're happy to have you as one of us.

alternative3:

26 Feb 2014 6:28:44pm

You misunderstand "the Anglosphere" and thereby misunderstand Euroskepticism.

The former isn't (just) a language and a social club, it is a view that arises from well before the Renaissance that the government should fear the people not the other way around. Granted, it was initially that the King should fear his Barons and not the other way around, but it has kept up with the times quite well.

And Euroskepticism is to fear the loss of this by being in a slurry of countries who feel it is better to have all freedoms in a centralized repository (the govt) to be doled out to the people at the govt's pleasure.

Historically the Anglosphere view of things has given it the resilience and dynamism to thrive and dominate, which causes huge heartburn in those who hold the opposing view (such as yourself I fear).

R. N. England:

26 Feb 2014 6:47:41pm

The world was transformed into the civilisation we now know by the European Enlightenment. English-speaking people, perhaps especially in America, made big contributions. But it was a multinational movement from the start. The names say it all: Galileo, Copernicus, Diderot, Spinoza, Leibnitz, Newton, Linnaeus, Franklin, Jefferson. The Enlightenment transcended nationalism. Enlightenment figures from France and Britain had cordial relations at a time when the two countries were at war. Nationalism is petty, vain, and ignorant, be it German, English, or American. It makes civilised people shudder.

Artful Dodger:

27 Feb 2014 12:04:30am

The ancient Greeks-Romans- Egyptians and others also contributed to the civilisation we have now, Arabs invented surgery-Greeks mathametics- Romans construction."The whole is more than the sum of its parts" Aristotle.Like everything else in life- there is always a balance- a littler national pride is god- extreme nationalism is a sign of gross ignorance.

rod:

26 Feb 2014 7:14:11pm

One of my passions is my mother tongue. I studied Old and middle English for years and at one stage I could recite from heart the whole of Chaucer's "The Knightes Tale" and knew much of Beowulf by heart as well.

But I am living overseas and m determined my children will be bilingual. I dwell in the Europe so disparaged (pure propaganda it is BTW) by the ignorant right in Australia. For, although English is indeed a beautiful language, it has, through no intrinsic flaw of its own, become a vector for the Earth's deadliest virus: economic "rationalist" thinking, and George W Bush, John Howard, the LNP, IPA and all the rest of them are spot tumors that show that the terminal metastatic phase of the disease is well underway.

Bahbet:

27 Feb 2014 12:23:50pm

This short post, although acid in tone, reflects another reality for those who wish to hear. Despite world English dominating every international platform, from air traffic control to scientific conferences, and economic forums, its streamlined simplicity is not a good vehicle for more subtle matters.Yes we all speak modern English to some level and assume we understand each other. But what works for air traffic and economics is not an adequate conduit for the challenges of cultural understanding,creating tolerance or overcoming the 'alientation' that APM bemoans above. We need more multilinguists like yourself to strengthen the fragile English language bridges staggering under the weight of mass people relocation. We need many more scholars of language and linguistic history. People who speak three, five or ten languages. And each takes a decade of university allocated funds to train.....

Peter the Lawyer:

27 Feb 2014 1:39:28pm

Rod

Look around you, mate. The size of government has grown in all western countries since universal suffrage. The US is now a socialist country with more petty regulation than even France or the other EU countries. read Mark Steyn, he will soon disabuse of you this idea that US is still the land of the free.

As for John Howard, I suggest you remember that all economic indicators were better under his government than at any time since 1900. He was not an idealogue. He and his government just looked at the world in a pragmatic way and saw that freedom is better than equality as a guide.

The natural reflex of Government however is to grow. In 50 years time I fear that government will metastasize into a leviathan that stifles all real creativity and pleasure. Culture will be reduced to banal pop music and 'reality' show.s

Half Past Human:

27 Feb 2014 10:14:38am

Wow! You are spending a considerable amount of time on these pages displaying your opposing views on Asylum Seekers (Boat people) coming into Australia and then you have the gall to turn around and say, "I am a citizen of the world now." You are a hypocrite.

Peter the Lawyer:

bluedog:

26 Feb 2014 10:11:35pm

'It is tempting to see the growth of the Anglosphere as a return to a Commonwealth tradition in British politics. '

A temptation that should be resisted.

Look at it another way, in 1901 when Australia became a federation, the size of the British economy totally overshadowed that of the Australian economy. Today, the combined GDPs of Canada, Australia and NZ are greater than that of the UK. Check it out on the CIA country fact-file. As money translates directly into power, it does not seem possible for the UK to return to a dominant position within the Commonwealth, let alone within the wider Anglosphere if the US is included too. On an emotional basis, one can also agree that having dumped the old Dominons in the early seventies in the strategic error of submerging the UK in the EU, the UK has no right to demand a return to primacy should it leave the EU. It is possible that the harder heads within the British foreign policy establishment understand the weakness of their position. The British can only suggest working with us on a collegiate basis.

But drawing a very long-bow, one can say that the nations of the Anglosphere need to spend a period of time consolidating the gains of the past four hundred years. There will never be another continent to discover and settle, and the world shrinks on a relative basis every time another billion humans is born. As custodians of some very desirable real estate and enjoying an extraordinarily high standard of living it is inevitable that the countries of the Anglosphere will continue to see demographic claimants (migrants) who seek access to our benefits. It is many years since we were challenged by a grouping of nation states that sought to conquer us by force of arms, but it could happen again.

There is no guarantee that our sovereignty over our extraordinary inheritance can be maintained.

It follows that anything that we can do to prolong our good fortune is worthwhile. If working closely together with other nations that share the same ancestry in all regards can help us, let's do it! After all, blood is thicker than water.

Neil:

26 Feb 2014 11:03:17pm

Impressed by all the colonialist and neo something or other discussions and many pretensions to know what the British people actually feel day to day as opposed to what many intellectualise they feel like and also conjecture what imaginary colonialist sentiments define their and the governments daily life and conversations. Sorry to dissapoint yet it is not quite like that 'on the ground', nor on the infamous Clapham omnibus or any ubiquitous local pub you pop into for a beer with the real people of the country. It is a lot more simple and pragmatic than is aspired to by many. Simply put the brits in Europe feel deceived deep down by politicians. Know the feeling? Same as aussies feel if they are decieved by gillard or rudd or anyone else on carbon tax etc etc. Yet think ten times bigger and over many more years. The vast majority of older 'working for the mortgage' people feel and know they were lied to by politicians when voting for a 'free trade agreement' with europe. The parliament lied to the country to swing the vote to join and no longer even pretends otherwise. To a person they know the british fishing industry was destroyed by politicians deception with intent to give away the 200 mile fishing zone. They know they fought a world war to retain that zone and it was given away. They now see a daily continuance of a Europe that takes and never gives personal or regional freedoms or independence and they feel the incessant drive to federalise one of the oldest and unashamadly proud and independent democracies of the world. Imagine the Uk was today enacting laws that effect daily cafe, personal and work life in Sydney west and you get the feeling created when an entirely unelected brussels eurocrat does the same, and has the absolute legal right to do so. When unemployment is rising they are frustrated by open borders, much as block 457's for mining companies frustrated many australians (so think a block 457 for a million people being signed off by the government of Au without as much as a 'public consultation' or vote on it when unemployemnt is rising) and they are angered that a person can walk into the country and receive substantial benefits, commit crime and then leave, sticking several smirking fingers up as they do so. Would most Australians be angered at an indonesians ''right' to pitch up in Brissie and claim benefits on day one, bring in five kids and aunties, never work, commit crime and be able to avoid deportation because they now have family in Australia? The British know the political system that facilitates it is immoral just as Aussies would. There are similar values at play in both democracies. Most individuals in the UK now see a Europe overstepping a mark that takes away the independence of a very historically independent country. They give very little thought to the previous colonies, maybe a fleeting beer soaked comment at the queens speech, and when they do it is with the general hope that the colonies a

in god we trust lol:

26 Feb 2014 11:06:50pm

"Anglosphere" is just a cover for deep racism really....it cant be based on language alone, because that would include almost everybody everywhere.....or its only the English....and white ones at that....or only those English with pretentions of lineage and title.....it cant be the present reality of England because thats "just a cold godless wilderness full of broken dreams and cold pies".

kenj:

27 Feb 2014 6:13:19am

The Anglosphere is not a fairytale. As Glenn Greenwald makes clear in his latest revelation from Edward Snowden the "five eyes" Intelligence agencies of the US, UK, Canada, Australia and NZ are not just gathering intelligence but running active propaganda programs for social control via the media within their own countries and directed at their own people: framing public debate by injecting false narratives into blogs, trashing people's reputations, running propaganda against Western audiences. Rather than being passive intelligence gatherers, these agencies have become active political players with no effective public oversight.

The Anglosphere also lead and direct NATO which, under the fiction of providing EU security, has implemented expansionist and questionable US foreign policy initiatives in places like Libya, Syria and Ukraine. The EU, looking for expanded markets, has backed the US in what are, essentially,broad sweep economic and military programs directed against China and Russia.The US (Anglo-backed) "pivot to Asia" foreign policy in the Pacific will likely at some stage lead to military confrontation with China.

There seems to be no end to this ridiculous "white man's burden" of maintaining a global peace run by the Anglosphere, which is in reality a global empire engaged in the covert take down of foreign governments (Syria, Ukraine, with Iran and Venezuela to come), threats of war and public lies, a white man's burden which includes a pernicious global intelligence network directed at, amongst others, its own peoples.

Yawn:

27 Feb 2014 6:55:15am

Eurosceptics? UKIP? Look....the reactionary right wing needs a banner behind which to market their xenophobic, sexist, corporate, pro-bankers agenda. These sorts of populist movements rely on selling simple "solutions" to the gullible for the benefit of their wealthy sponsors. Despite their lack of any real policy initiatives, their simple message appeals to the ignorant. There's the usual rubbish along the lines of "There's too much EU red tape stifling business (particularly banker's bonuses) so vote for us and we'll replace it with our own load of red tape (that doesn't limit banker's bonuses)" and "There are too many immigrants and refugees who are destroying our way of life and the economy so vote for us because we're not like other opportunist politicians. We won't use our power for the benefit our ourselves and our corporate sponsors (but we need to maintain a supply of cheap labour to keep profits up)". They want to hand power back to local people (except Scotland) and dramatically increase defence spending (but reduce taxes), scrap Trident nuclear submarines and build more aircraft carriers (but withdraw from the Eurofighter programme - the carrier based aircraft).....Need I go on? Hope not because the list of contradictions is quite lengthy.

Having someone to blame for your troubles appeals to the simple minded and often works well at the ballot box. But the way I see it, it puts these people into an easily identifiable grouping, it splits the right wing vote and it helps keep at least some of these buffoons out of Parliament.

kenj:

27 Feb 2014 7:56:44am

The political chickens are already coming home to roost. EU foreign policy chief Catherine Ashton left Kiev recently after failed attempts to bring the different opposition parties together in a government. Ukraine needs up to $35 billion to refinance its debts. However, major international banks have effectively cut off credit by charging ruinously high interest rates. Russia has withdrawn its offer of $15 billion in aid after the opposition toppled Russian-backed Pres.Viktor Yanukovych. EU and IMF officials are demanding austerity measures, measures previously rejected by Yanukovych, an which provided the impetus for Western backing of the opposition uprising.

The opposition are a disparate bunch of fascist thugs and certainly not trusted by the majority of the people. In their view the entire parliament is corrupt and cannot be trusted, even after new elections. They have signaled that new committees will need to be set up to 'monitor' the actions of parliamentarians to ensure they are in line with the views of the incoming right wing elements. In short, democracy, the purported reason for the Western-backed coup, is being trashed already. The EU banks will probably get their austerity demands and economy-decimating loan arrangements so we can all feel great about the new freedoms in the Ukraine.

How do those "Ukrainian Democracy" headlines seem to people now? Another "victory" for the EU and the Anglosphere.

Yawn:

27 Feb 2014 8:26:03am

"How do those "Ukrainian Democracy" headlines seem to people now? Another "victory" for the EU and the Anglosphere."

No. Neither me nor any of my friends give credence to mainstream media. And, in my opinion, if you do, then you're a fool. Most of it represents some form of advertising. If you must read it, then read widely. I suggest starting with Al Jazeera, Reddit, and Zerohedge.

John G:

27 Feb 2014 7:53:19am

As an Englishman, I can tell you this is a total fairytale. Mr Hannan belongs to the conservative party that along with the labour and liberal democrat parties deny the population the right of self governance - 70% of our laws now are imposed by the EU - we are no longer a liberal country - but a prescriptive one. If he really believed in right of self governance and the ability to form our own trading preferences then he is clearly in the wrong party. We additionally need to be very careful about what is meant by "global player" and the word "growth". In a balanced economy there should be stability, minimum inflation, and money under control of the state - none of these are an aspiration of Mr Hannan.