Re: Has Universal Orlando passed DLR as the #2 theme park resort in the U.S.?

You act as though this is the first time in Disneyland's 57 years that things can get stagnant. How do we know this is going to happen? And if it does it certainly will not be the first time this were to happen.

As I have stated numerous times DL has a large enough local base to where it doesn't need to have national recognition as much as WDW does. And WDW physically is a lot more difficult to go to - you have to travel to there to enjoy it.

If you are expecting us to be up in arms that the DLR is going to slip to #2 it's not going to happen. Disneylanders just don't look at the park as some type of national vacation destination. They see it largely as a locals park to take a day trip or at least a regional park to make a weekend vacation out of or as part of a more generalized Southern California vacation.

DL has weathered the stagnation storm before. But it shouldn't worry if USO takes it spot. It needs to sorry more about USH doing that. As USH grows and DL remains stagnant - that should be what we are worried about. Because if this causes the DLR to become #2 in Southern California then Disney will be in a world of hurt.

Re: Has Universal Orlando passed DLR as the #2 theme park resort in the U.S.?

Originally Posted by DisneylandDragon

You are basing this projection of USO possibly making itself #2 by it's rapid recent growth and the reletive stagnant immediate future of DLR....oh boy.

You really are stressing the "what have you done for me lately?" angle. DLR just finished a billion dollar expansion! When USO turns 40, it may be complete garbage for all we know. How do we know they can continue such rapid expansion wile still not pulling the numbers like its Disney counterparts? I guess there is a lot of "what ifs" involved for USO to possibly surpass DLR, but they are big what ifs. It's like you are saying: What if USO continues to expand for the next decade and DLR does nothing? I can definately say DL still has ambition, hard work and the quality has always been there. DL does not need to reinvent the wheel, it is already working fine, DCA had a problem and Disney spent a billion dollars fixing it. Even with potter at USO they could not even pull 10 million guests in a year, I don't see how any other addition will help them draw closer to DLR or WDW. If USO was clearly the "better quality experience" the numbers would reflect it. Right now Universal is all Potter and a hodge podge of other movie franchises that most people either love or hate. Universal is making moves now, so yes if you want to say right this moment they are on pace to draw even then fine. But I would not bank on DLR just sitting around and doing nothing for too long. DLR is just waiting to counter USH's Potter expansion before they do something in my opinion.

Um...not only what they have done, but what they continue to do. Yes, USO had less to build from, but that's because they are newer...it doesn't take a genius to realize that an older park will have had more expansions and obviously has more opportunities to better itself. Look at where USO is going and has been going--at this rate, they will surpass DLR as they sit idly by, I'm not sure exactly what you're arguing here but it's the truth. DLR just finished a big expansion, so did USO...the difference is USO keeps going. And they've been updated several times since opening. There are very few original opening-day attractions left. They're more progressive, and the rapid influx of visitors to see HP have prompted them to improve their parks and services in all areas so they can win over guests and become a greater tourist spot.

Meanwhile what did DLR do after their expansion? Add a princess meet and greet and leave Hollywoodland and PP incomplete. IMO, their food service is worse than ever and they continue to sell stale merchandise that's generic. They push the blandness of all their parks with the 'One Disney' initiative. A big new ride that always breaks down and a new entrance that replaced a godawful one isn't all that revolutionary. And the fact is, even if DLR does get moving, they're still behind, and will continue to be because USO shows no signs of slowing down.

Re: Has Universal Orlando passed DLR as the #2 theme park resort in the U.S.?

Originally Posted by DisneyIPresume

You act as though this is the first time in Disneyland's 57 years that things can get stagnant. How do we know this is going to happen? And if it does it certainly will not be the first time this were to happen.

As I have stated numerous times DL has a large enough local base to where it doesn't need to have national recognition as much as WDW does. And WDW physically is a lot more difficult to go to - you have to travel to there to enjoy it.

If you are expecting us to be up in arms that the DLR is going to slip to #2 it's not going to happen. Disneylanders just don't look at the park as some type of national vacation destination. They see it largely as a locals park to take a day trip or at least a regional park to make a weekend vacation out of or as part of a more generalized Southern California vacation.

DL has weathered the stagnation storm before. But it shouldn't worry if USO takes it spot. It needs to sorry more about USH doing that. As USH grows and DL remains stagnant - that should be what we are worried about. Because if this causes the DLR to become #2 in Southern California then Disney will be in a world of hurt.

Re: Has Universal Orlando passed DLR as the #2 theme park resort in the U.S.?

Originally Posted by TylerDurden

Um...not only what they have done, but what they continue to do. Yes, USO had less to build from, but that's because they are newer...it doesn't take a genius to realize that an older park will have had more expansions and obviously has more opportunities to better itself. Look at where USO is going and has been going--at this rate, they will surpass DLR as they sit idly by, I'm not sure exactly what you're arguing here but it's the truth. DLR just finished a big expansion, so did USO...the difference is USO keeps going. And they've been updated several times since opening. There are very few original opening-day attractions left. They're more progressive, and the rapid influx of visitors to see HP have prompted them to improve their parks and services in all areas so they can win over guests and become a greater tourist spot.

Meanwhile what did DLR do after their expansion? Add a princess meet and greet and leave Hollywoodland and PP incomplete. IMO, their food service is worse than ever and they continue to sell stale merchandise that's generic. They push the blandness of all their parks with the 'One Disney' initiative. A big new ride that always breaks down and a new entrance that replaced a godawful one isn't all that revolutionary. And the fact is, even if DLR does get moving, they're still behind, and will continue to be because USO shows no signs of slowing down.

Your standpoint is all speculation. DLR does not need to continue to build new stuff constantly. People love it the way it is, and for the most part they complain when sweeping changes are made. USO has no identity yet, they are still finding one. Just because you use words like "progressive" and "rapid influx" does not necessarily mean they are gaining any ground in the minds and hearts of the theme park going public. This rapid influx you speak of has not shown in the numbers. USO can go full speed ahead for a century but even when Disney is idle they have maintained a 2 to 1 guest ratio over the rapid influx USO lol!

Re: Has Universal Orlando passed DLR as the #2 theme park resort in the U.S.?

Originally Posted by DisneylandDragon

Your standpoint is all speculation. DLR does not need to continue to build new stuff constantly. People love it the way it is, and for the most part they complain when sweeping changes are made. USO has no identity yet, they are still finding one. Just because you use words like "progressive" and "rapid influx" does not necessarily mean they are gaining any ground in the minds and hearts of the theme park going public. This rapid influx you speak of has not shown in the numbers. USO can go full speed ahead for a century but even when Disney is idle they have maintained a 2 to 1 guest ratio over the rapid influx USO lol!

1. It's not speculation, it's fact that USO is moving still while DL is comparatively stagnant after one expansion that was the first major addition to the parks since 1995 (when IoA was being planned at IOA). Tell me what exactly I'm speculating.

2. Just because you're going to call me out on my choice of vocabulary (seriously) doesn't mean you will bring me down, in fact, it just proves that you can't come up with a cohesive argument. Seriously, have some meat in your posts, don't just go for people's word choice.

Look, I love Disneyland as much as the next guy and I always will, but that doesn't change the fact that they're taking it easier than Universal. That's not a bad thing for them, just a great thing for USO, and I hope they keep up the good work. As for you, try not getting so defensive and rude, it makes me take you less seriously

Re: Has Universal Orlando passed DLR as the #2 theme park resort in the U.S.?

Originally Posted by TylerDurden

Um...not only what they have done, but what they continue to do. Yes, USO had less to build from, but that's because they are newer...it doesn't take a genius to realize that an older park will have had more expansions and obviously has more opportunities to better itself. Look at where USO is going and has been going--at this rate, they will surpass DLR as they sit idly by, I'm not sure exactly what you're arguing here but it's the truth. DLR just finished a big expansion, so did USO...the difference is USO keeps going. And they've been updated several times since opening. There are very few original opening-day attractions left. They're more progressive, and the rapid influx of visitors to see HP have prompted them to improve their parks and services in all areas so they can win over guests and become a greater tourist spot.

Meanwhile what did DLR do after their expansion? Add a princess meet and greet and leave Hollywoodland and PP incomplete. IMO, their food service is worse than ever and they continue to sell stale merchandise that's generic. They push the blandness of all their parks with the 'One Disney' initiative. A big new ride that always breaks down and a new entrance that replaced a godawful one isn't all that revolutionary. And the fact is, even if DLR does get moving, they're still behind, and will continue to be because USO shows no signs of slowing down.

Potter wasn't built last year. Ther was a gap in between Potter and what they're doing now. Oh, and I'm pretty sure One Disney comes from Orlando.

Like others of have said, you don't know what DLR has planned. I don't know what DLR has planned. No one here knows. You are speculating, and stating speculations as facts. DLR could have rides and attractions planned for the next few years. None of us know, so why do you keep saying nothing's planned when you don't even know?

Re: Has Universal Orlando passed DLR as the #2 theme park resort in the U.S.?

Originally Posted by TylerDurden

1. It's not speculation, it's fact that USO is moving still while DL is comparatively stagnant after one expansion that was the first major addition to the parks since 1995 (when IoA was being planned at IOA). Tell me what exactly I'm speculating.

2. Just because you're going to call me out on my choice of vocabulary (seriously) doesn't mean you will bring me down, in fact, it just proves that you can't come up with a cohesive argument. Seriously, have some meat in your posts, don't just go for people's word choice.

Look, I love Disneyland as much as the next guy and I always will, but that doesn't change the fact that they're taking it easier than Universal. That's not a bad thing for them, just a great thing for USO, and I hope they keep up the good work. As for you, try not getting so defensive and rude, it makes me take you less seriously

I'm not trying to be rude. I have countered every one of your points with cohesive dialogue. You continue to base all your points on specualation. Fact is USO is expanding. Speculation is when you think this expansion makes them close to surpassing DLR. There are plenty of meat in my posts. You try to dismiss the most important facts in them. i.e. attendance numbers.

You continue on your way of thinking that all this expansion and building equals USO moving forward and DLR losing ground. It does not work like that. Disney built a product that works and does not need to tear down rides and lands and start over every 5 years. They gave DCA 7 years and fixed it when it was not working, but Disneyland itself has been magic from the start. Why would DL tear down POTC or Haunted Mansion if people still love these attractions? If it aint broke, why fix it?

Re: Has Universal Orlando passed DLR as the #2 theme park resort in the U.S.?

Originally Posted by DisneylandDragon

I'm not trying to be rude. I have countered every one of your points with cohesive dialogue. You continue to base all your points on specualation. Fact is USO is expanding. Speculation is when you think this expansion makes them close to surpassing DLR. There are plenty of meat in my posts. You try to dismiss the most important facts in them. i.e. attendance numbers.

You continue on your way of thinking that all this expansion and building equals USO moving forward and DLR losing ground. It does not work like that. Disney built a product that works and does not need to tear down rides and lands and start over every 5 years. They gave DCA 7 years and fixed it when it was not working, but Disneyland itself has been magic from the start. Why would DL tear down POTC or Haunted Mansion if people still love these attractions? If it aint broke, why fix it?

I ignore the attendance numbers point because that's not what this is about. This is about quality tourist destinations. Like I've said before, MK is the #1 most attended theme park in the world, so by your logic, that means it's the best right?

They may have given DCA 7 years, that doesn't change the fact that Carsland was built to dig it out of its rut, so anyone saying Potter doesn't count as a legitimate expansion because it's making up for the initial 'loss' of IoA, well guess what, that's what the point of Carsland was.

Do I personally think USO is offering a more quality experience at the moment? Yes I do. So regardless of their attendance, they still are continuing to give guests amazing vacation experiences that IMO surpass DL's. No they don't have history or nostalgia, it's not that old so that's unfair. And I never said DL should tear down Pirates or HM, but I mean would anyone really miss Pinocchio or Finding Nemo subs? In a Universal park, those attractions would be scrapped to stay relevant and on top of the game.

And no, I don't know what Disney has planned, but I do know what Universal has planned. And I do know that it'll be done before Disney's 'next big thing' is because, well they've actually already started. If Disney announces something this summer, they still have to make the concept art, raise the funds, get the contracts, and then begin construction...so their next big project won't even start breaking ground before USO's newest E-ticket arrives. And it definitely won't open before USO's next new land, water show, family ride, HP expansion, and pair of E-tickets opens up post-Transformers. What's speculation about that?

Re: Has Universal Orlando passed DLR as the #2 theme park resort in the U.S.?

Originally Posted by TylerDurden

And no, I don't know what Disney has planned, but I do know what Universal has planned. And I do know that it'll be done before Disney's 'next big thing' is because, well they've actually already started. If Disney announces something this summer, they still have to make the concept art, raise the funds, get the contracts, and then begin construction...so their next big project won't even start breaking ground before USO's newest E-ticket arrives. And it definitely won't open before USO's next new land, water show, family ride, HP expansion, and pair of E-tickets opens up post-Transformers. What's speculation about that?

You're speculating that Disney has nothing planned for the next few years because you don't know what's being planned as you stated in the first sentence above.

You're basing your opinion solely on what is coming next and refusing to look at other things as to what would make USO "#2".

Re: Has Universal Orlando passed DLR as the #2 theme park resort in the U.S.?

Originally Posted by hollywood1939

You're speculating that Disney has nothing planned for the next few years because you don't know what's being planned as you stated in the first sentence above.

You're basing your opinion solely on what is coming next and refusing to look at other things as to what would make USO "#2".

Because Universal already has made progress!!! What is so difficult to understand about that?! Should I just pretend DL is better because maybe in 10 years they'll come out with another expansion?? It took em about 11 to fix up their park in the first big expansion for the resort since DCA. I don't have to speculate...Disney has nothing, while Universal has tangible evidence that they're moving now.

Re: Has Universal Orlando passed DLR as the #2 theme park resort in the U.S.?

Originally Posted by TylerDurden

I ignore the attendance numbers point because that's not what this is about. This is about quality tourist destinations. Like I've said before, MK is the #1 most attended theme park in the world, so by your logic, that means it's the best right?

If WDW and DLR are such poor quality tourists destinations, why are they not overwhelmingly going to USO? The fact is they go to WDW and DLR because they are great experiences! MK and WDW as a whole is the best vacation experience not only because of some excellent quality attractions, but the variety and amount of options of things to do or see are far more than any theme park vacation destination can offer. And for the record, people would miss Nemo, when the subs first closed everybody complained. When Nemo opened there was a line stretching past storybook land canal boats 10 minutes after DL opened in the morning.

Originally Posted by TylerDurden

Do I personally think USO is offering a more quality experience at the moment? Yes I do. So regardless of their attendance, they still are continuing to give guests amazing vacation experiences that IMO surpass DL's.

Your opinion is duly noted. But my opinion of DLR being the better tourist destination is also supported by the numbers. People come to Disneyland at a ratio of over 2 to 1 over IoA and almost 3 to 1 over USO. These people come to DLR with all its stagnation because it is a national icon and international tourist destination built from many opinions like mine who think the quality of the park is still far above its competitors. USO can be a park filled with E-tickets and people will still choose Disney because they have that intagible connection it creates with its guests. Some call it magic.

Re: Has Universal Orlando passed DLR as the #2 theme park resort in the U.S.?

Originally Posted by TylerDurden

Because Universal already has made progress!!! What is so difficult to understand about that?! Should I just pretend DL is better because maybe in 10 years they'll come out with another expansion?? It took em about 11 to fix up their park in the first big expansion for the resort since DCA. I don't have to speculate...Disney has nothing, while Universal has tangible evidence that they're moving now.

Because you don't know what's in the line for DLR!!!! What is so difficult to understand about that?!

Re: Has Universal Orlando passed DLR as the #2 theme park resort in the U.S.?

Originally Posted by DisneylandDragon

If WDW and DLR are such poor quality tourists destinations, why are they not overwhelmingly going to USO? The fact is they go to WDW and DLR because they are great experiences! MK and WDW as a whole is the best vacation experience not only because of some excellent quality attractions, but the variety and amount of options of things to do or see are far more than any theme park vacation destination can offer. And for the record, people would miss Nemo, when the subs first closed everybody complained. When Nemo opened there was a line stretching past storybook land canal boats 10 minutes after DL opened in the morning.

Your opinion is duly noted. But my opinion of DLR being the better tourist destination is also supported by the numbers. People come to Disneyland at a ratio of over 2 to 1 over IoA and almost 3 to 1 over USO. These people come to DLR with all its stagnation because it is a national icon and international tourist destination built from many opinions like mine who think the quality of the park is still far above its competitors. USO can be a park filled with E-tickets and people will still choose Disney because they have that intagible connection it creates with its guests. Some call it magic.

That, my friend, all comes down to brand recognition, loyalty, and familiarity. USO is newer to the scene than Disney. They're going to take some time to build up their fan base and try to take people who have grown up with Disney (because it was first) and convert them. I think they're doing a good job. But when all you know is Disney, and that brand recognition is overwhelming, then quantity doesn't mean quality.

Re: Has Universal Orlando passed DLR as the #2 theme park resort in the U.S.?

Originally Posted by hollywood1939

Because you don't know what's in the line for DLR!!!! What is so difficult to understand about that?!

Do me a favor. Go look up construction pictures from today for USO.

Then look up construction pictures from today for DLR.

Who's expanding? No, I don't know what Disney is going to do but if it's going to take them another decade to do it then it won't really matter will it? USO will be far ahead in expansion by then because they're breakneck.

Re: Has Universal Orlando passed DLR as the #2 theme park resort in the U.S.?

Why exactly is Disneyland being compared to USO. I don't know anyone in So.California who has ever gone to Orlando for vacation, and myself included being from So. Cal, I would never fly across the country to go to a theme park, and many on the west coast would not either.

I really don't think DL needs to worry about what USO is doing or not doing, its not a competitor with DL, and in So. California, DLR holds up just fine to it's competition in my opinion.