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Re: Can government create jobs?

Originally Posted by spud_meister

Tell me this, would more jobs exist in an anarchist society or a governed society?

incorrect set of assumptions; creating the conditions for jobs to exist (rule of law, enforcement of contract, minimum violence etc) is not the same as creating a job, any more than shoveling manure is creating a tomato.

Re: Can government create jobs?

I just got to say that anyone that selected No really needs to get educated..or maybe they couldn't because the government didn't create enough jobs in their area to allow free public schooling? Any kind of job that has to do with keeping the peace, infrastructure, education, etc including permanent jobs such as the law or teachers probably made its way passed a vote at one point...

Now is the government going to give us all jobs? No. Seriously though 8 of you? Come on people.

"We’re going to close the unproductive tax loopholes that allow some of the truly wealthy to avoid paying their fair share. In theory, some of those loopholes were understandable, but in practice they sometimes made it possible for millionaires to pay nothing, while a bus driver was paying ten percent of his salary, and that’s crazy." -Reagan

Re: Can government create jobs?

Originally Posted by Jucon

What say you?

I believe they can, not only in the short term but in the long term. Government creates jobs through both construction projects and hiring people to do government business. But mostly through improving the overall structure of the country.

Better schools and educations lead to Americans being more internationally desired
Better roads lead to improved transportation costs
Better ports lead to an ability to import and export more goods
More and better metro systems decreases traffic leading to better transportation times
Building industrial parks open up areas for large businesses
And obviously cutting taxes means people will be able to spend more and create jobs that way

Of course government can also kill jobs.

I will say that using the stimulus money to build parks and do nature research was stupid as hell. Those are only short term jobs and will do little in the long term. Waste of money.

Overall though, I am highly skeptical of those who say the stimulus was a complete failure, didn't improve the economy, and didn't create jobs...

The Civilian Conservation Corps employed three million young men between the ages of 17 and 35 between 1933 and 1942. "The men signed on for 6 months and were organized into crews that reforested land, undertook conservation projects in National Parks, and worked on trails and clearing growth in National Forests. They built bridges, repaired dams, built fire lookouts and fences, and did terracing to prevent erosion. They were paid $30 a month, but they had to send $22- $25 to their folks in the cities, so the parents would have money to spend to stimulate the economy. The CCC was one of the most popular and most successful of the New Deal measures."

"During the time of the CCC, volunteers planted nearly 3 billion trees to help reforest America, constructed more than 800 parks nationwide that would become the start of most state parks, developed forest fire fighting methods, a network of thousands of miles of public roadways, and constructed buildings connecting the nation's public lands." Civilian Conservation Corps - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

A beautiful example of the government stimulating the economy!! In 1942, Congress ceased funding and the program was closed down. Yay! A Congress that actually stopped funding a program!!!!!

Re: Can government create jobs?

Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla

Sure they can, but should they, is the better question.

Legitimate question. I had a feeling it would be brought up.

I'd like to hear your thoughts on the alternatives to the government stimulus. Most people were cutting jobs and cutting spending. I do not believe a tax break alone would have picked the economy back up anywhere near how quickly we came back with the stimulus. Yes, unemployment is high and the economy is still slow to recover, but we needed some way to stop the bleeding, and quickly. A reduction in taxes would have been slow and unreliable (not to mention it would have increased our deficit and debt just as much). How would we know jobs would have been created in the areas where jobs were needed? How would we even know that the people and businesses would have spent the money they saved or recieved when the economy was looking the way it was? Even now we have businesses sitting on trillions of dollars.

The stimulus spending created jobs. Jobs that would not have been there otherwise. Through projects that in some cases will lead to other jobs being created. Yes, the stimulus wasn't perfect... you have politicians, both locally and on the federal level, to blame for that. But I don't believe the stimulus was a complete failure.

"There is nothing which I dread so much as a division of the republic into two great parties, each arranged under its leader, and concerting measures in opposition to each other. This, in my humble apprehension, it to be dreaded as the greatest political evil under our Constitution." —John Adams

Re: Can government create jobs?

Originally Posted by Jucon

Legitimate question. I had a feeling it would be brought up.

I'd like to hear your thoughts on the alternatives to the government stimulus. Most people were cutting jobs and cutting spending. I do not believe a tax break alone would have picked the economy back up anywhere near how quickly we came back with the stimulus. Yes, unemployment is high and the economy is still slow to recover, but we needed some way to stop the bleeding, and quickly. A reduction in taxes would have been slow and unreliable (not to mention it would have increased our deficit and debt just as much). How would we know jobs would have been created in the areas where jobs were needed? How would we even know that the people and businesses would have spent the money they saved or recieved when the economy was looking the way it was? Even now we have businesses sitting on trillions of dollars.

The stimulus spending created jobs. Jobs that would not have been there otherwise. Through projects that in some cases will lead to other jobs being created. Yes, the stimulus wasn't perfect... you have politicians, both locally and on the federal level, to blame for that. But I don't believe the stimulus was a complete failure.

I agree. Though we could have done better, the stimulus was not a complete failure. To many, though, it looked suspiciously like a handout/payback/bribe to unions -- and much of it was.

Re: Can government create jobs?

Originally Posted by JohnWOlin

I just got to say that anyone that selected No really needs to get educated..or maybe they couldn't because the government didn't create enough jobs in their area to allow free public schooling? Any kind of job that has to do with keeping the peace, infrastructure, education, etc including permanent jobs such as the law or teachers probably made its way passed a vote at one point...

Now is the government going to give us all jobs? No. Seriously though 8 of you? Come on people.

The government cannot create jobs without destroying jobs in the private sector. It ends up being a net loss on jobs. The money that the government uses to pay people for those jobs comes from the productive members of the private sector and redistributes it to the these new government employees. In effect, the government has not created new wealth nor has it created new net jobs. The only thing the government can do is take away existing wealth and private sector jobs. See the Broken Window Fallacy.

Re: Can government create jobs?

The Governor cannot create jobs only destroy them either through trade protectionism, taxes, overbearing regulations, war, government spending among others. The governments function in the market is supposed to be a referee.

Re: Can government create jobs?

I'm sure you value the road outside where you live. And you paid for it through your tax dollars.

Would you prefer paying a toll every time you came out of your driveway to get to work?

That road helps make you more wealthy by making it easier for you to get to work. Not to mention it gave access to your plot of land so you could build a house on it. Without that road you likely wouldn't be living there.

And what if you can't afford to send your child to a private school? Would you or your wife/girlfriend be able to afford not working in order to give them an education? Would you be able to get a private teacher? I'm sure you'd value the public school system.

What if you don't have a car? Or can't find a parking spot ever? How will you get to work? Thank God there are buses and subway systems. Taxis are way too expensive to be using every day.

And I don't know about you but I certainly value the fire department, police, and military.

The government doesn't gain a profit... we do. The government has no profit because it spends it's incoming tax dollars back on the public. You need to pay people to make government work.

Remember the saying, "of the people, by the people, for the people"?

What has the government created in your examples? The government does not see a profit (strictly speaking financially) in any of the things you listed. Our public schools are poor and yet take up a huge amount of taxpayer money. Roads, subways, etc can be privatized and possibly gain a profit. PA was considering privatizing a highway for that very reason.

A good example is the post office. It loses billions of dollars every year. Does it create wealth? It provides jobs, but those jobs come at the expense of the taxpayer.

By wealth I mean a strictly financial sense. Of course there are some jobs best left to the government, but I wouldn't expect their bottom line to be anything but in the red.

Mr. Madison, what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.

Re: Can government create jobs?

Originally Posted by Lord Tammerlain

I suggest anyone look at the Hoover Dam, the Interstate freeway system as aspects of the government creating jobs

I guess communism is the way to go, right?

"He who does not think himself worth saving from poverty and ignorance by his own efforts, will hardly be thought worth the efforts of anybody else." -- Frederick Douglass, Self-Made Men (1872)
"Fly-over" country voted, and The Donald is now POTUS.