Do you have a more condensed version? Over an hour is a bit of a commitment if you want to introduce someone to the basic argument you're advancing. I don't generally listen to stem-winding speeches as a first step in understanding where someone is coming from. I'd have to be retired and relatively obligation-free to even consider that as a starting-point. There has to be a TL;DR version I'm afraid.

To the extent that a WASP like myself has anything to legitimately say about such issues (which is pretty limited, given that most African-Americans I know just want people like me to listen, not talk, and understandably so) it is undeniably true that Christianity has been predominantly a tool of white males of Western European descent to maintain white male privilege, not just against racial minorities, but women, LGBTQ, etc. African-American churches in the US are arguably more a product of segregation and Jim Crow than of real liberalization of Christianity to be more inclusive -- at least this seems true in the US.

(20-03-2017 10:38 AM)mordant Wrote: Do you have a more condensed version? Over an hour is a bit of a commitment if you want to introduce someone to the basic argument you're advancing. I don't generally listen to stem-winding speeches as a first step in understanding where someone is coming from. I'd have to be retired and relatively obligation-free to even consider that as a starting-point. There has to be a TL;DR version I'm afraid.

To the extent that a WASP like myself has anything to legitimately say about such issues (which is pretty limited, given that most African-Americans I know just want people like me to listen, not talk, and understandably so) it is undeniably true that Christianity has been predominantly a tool of white males of Western European descent to maintain white male privilege, not just against racial minorities, but women, LGBTQ, etc. African-American churches in the US are arguably more a product of segregation and Jim Crow than of real liberalization of Christianity to be more inclusive -- at least this seems true in the US.

I do not have a condensed version. If a person is interested in the subject, maybe they can skip a Hollywood movie and watch this vid. This IS a superb vid!
Agreed with the rest of your reply. Christianity was coopted by Constantine of Rome and has been an instrument of the ruling/oppressor class ever since.

(20-03-2017 03:46 AM)Fred Hampton Wrote: I request that you kindly watch the video before participating in the discussion.

I'm afraid I'm not gonna waste more than an hour of my time watching this bloke's self-serving video.

According to one commentator:

—Omali Yeshitela is a radical black separatist "revolutionary". Born in 1941 as Joseph Waller, Yeshitela has dedicated his life to one purpose—to foment a violent revolution in the US that would result in the creation of an ill-defined independent black nation, existing in North America but outside of US jurisdiction and free from US laws. In 1972, he founded the African People’s Socialist Party (APSP), and later created the "Uhuru Movement".

A former member of the APSP says of the organisation:

—The APSP is at best a corrupt organization riddled with internal contradictions that systematically undermines its ability to resolve its own issues, and that has been allowed by the state to exist so long not because of the resilience of the leadership or correctness of the theory, but because it poses no real threat to the enemy and functions to attract and neutralize genuine forces with potential to become revolutionaries. The APSP as it exists today is not the vanguard party of the African working class and poor peasantry that it arrogantly claims to be, it is the political cult of Yeshitelism.

(20-03-2017 03:46 AM)Fred Hampton Wrote: I request that you kindly watch the video before participating in the discussion.

I'm afraid I'm not gonna waste more than an hour of my time watching this bloke's self-serving video.

According to one commentator:

—Omali Yeshitela is a radical black separatist "revolutionary". Born in 1941 as Joseph Waller, Yeshitela has dedicated his life to one purpose—to foment a violent revolution in the US that would result in the creation of an ill-defined independent black nation, existing in North America but outside of US jurisdiction and free from US laws. In 1972, he founded the African People’s Socialist Party (APSP), and later created the "Uhuru Movement".

A former member of the APSP says of the organisation:

—The APSP is at best a corrupt organization riddled with internal contradictions that systematically undermines its ability to resolve its own issues, and that has been allowed by the state to exist so long not because of the resilience of the leadership or correctness of the theory, but because it poses no real threat to the enemy and functions to attract and neutralize genuine forces with potential to become revolutionaries. The APSP as it exists today is not the vanguard party of the African working class and poor peasantry that it arrogantly claims to be, it is the political cult of Yeshitelism.

Fred, two people have now explained to you how a > 1 hour video is not an effective way to introduce a topic in this format. I would also point out that links to videos and other sites doesn't represent YOU initiating a discussion of YOUR views. That is the format here.

I would suggest that the only person who would listen to this video as a precondition to having a discussion with you would be someone vulnerable to indoctrination anyway.

As for Waller / Yeshitela, his public reputation is fair game. That you can't or won't defend it is another manifestation of your lack of engagement and an insistence that others make a large investment (whether watching a video or just being credulous about some authority figure).

I started out hoping you would step up to the plate and make your case. I wasn't predisposed against whatever you had to say about the black experience as it relates to Christianity, in fact, I was interested in what you had to say. Now I'm just turned off. Nice job.

(21-03-2017 05:39 AM)mordant Wrote: I would suggest that the only person who would listen to this video as a precondition to having a discussion with you would be someone vulnerable to indoctrination anyway.