catmoon wrote:I dont know what was more interesting - this radical approach from a Zen priest or his heroic efforts to avoid being distracted by a kitty who was determined to get some attention.

Lol, agreed, it does take a heroic effort for some Zen masters to not be distracted. But seriously, once again I'll point out that there's nothing "radical" about disparaging the views of others to promote ones own. Some religious teachers have been doing this from the beginning of civilization. In the video posted in the OP he literally says that his beliefs are "more magical and fantastic than anything a storybook writer (those who wrote the sutras) could cook-up." He also describes his views as "real" and "beautiful," not "baloney." And there's nothing radical about his materialist views.

* Edited for interest.

Last edited by shel on Wed Jun 27, 2012 5:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.

BuddhaSoup wrote:Now if only someone could tell me that, with no-self/anatta/anatman in mind, what survives death to occasion rebirth? A consciousness? A cosmic bit of dust? A semi-soul? A wisp of smoke that follows an extinguished candle?

It's not a 'what'! It is more like information propagating through a medium than a being going from place to place. So nothing 'survives' death, there is no 'carrier' of that wave of info. It propagates the same way that all of life propagates, albeit on a more subtle level than what is discernible by purely physical means.

I think the meaning of 'samsaric existence' is that insofar as you're attracted or attached to impermanent/changing/suffering things, so you are also 'the kind of thing that is subject to birth-and-death' because of your identification/attachment. However, if you realize you are not any of this (=realizing emptiness) then you are free of that cycle. Not that there is a 'you' to be free!

In the beginner's mind there are many possibilities; in the expert's mind there are few ~ Suzuki-roshi

Simon E. wrote:Whatever ones view of Mr Cohen...and I dont have an informed view, it is clear to me that he is not the one with a problem.

Mr Cohen is entirely harmless, I'm sure. He's a 'virtual' teacher so there's no chance of any real harm, and he doesn't accept any donations. Also, if you look at the numbers on his website ( http://www.treeleaf.org/forums/forumdis ... UNDO-TAIGU ), it doesn't look like even his students watch much of his sermons.

Shel, I mean really: who cares??? Get over your obsession and move on.

"My religion is not deceiving myself."Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."The Supreme Source - The Kunjed GyalpoThe Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde

gregkavarnos wrote:Shel, I mean really: who cares??? Get over your obsession and move on.

Since the first page I've been responding to what others have posted, such as I am now. And honestly, Gregkavarnos, if it bored you so much I don't believe that you'd keep coming back to this topic and posting your opinions. Have a care why don't you.

same thing happens in all manner of religious groups, also the armed services, politics, financial services, and so on. There is a long-running thread on ZFI about one of these two cases. And the Zen teachers in the US have signed on to an agreement of some kind (I can't remember the details) specifically to prevent abuses or to deal with them when they arise.

In the beginner's mind there are many possibilities; in the expert's mind there are few ~ Suzuki-roshi

jeeprs wrote:Further to the above, detailed critique of that paper has gone up on ZFI. The thread this is linked to is actually referenced in the paper.

Cute crit. I especially like the part that says, "It is indeed true that a person may enlightened to some regard, yet the person is still human and may behave badly, even delusory, or commit sexual abuse."

If that's what you call a Zen Master then... okay, that's what a Zen Master is.