The more I use the use the Pre, the more I am concerned for it and all smart phones at this point.

It seems to me that the iPhone has crossed the line of competitor and has reached absolute dominator when it comes to web developers. Every other website has an iPhone version that allows quicker access to the key aspects of its content. I agree that it is not always done it the best manner, but if other companies feel that they need to drop the coin/investment into catering to that platform, what is going to open their eyes to develop for another?

And all of these companies rushing out to develop App's for it.. absolute insanity. The older, less likely to buy a smart phone, are even starting to buy into it.

Am i going insane when thinking that Palm had better get their crap together within six months? Seriously, if the SDK sucks that bad, and they are still trying to fill positions, and they didn't event think about gaming when developing the SDK or the Pre, maybe they deserve to fail.

The days of the Treo are over. You have to get this ready for Prime time soon Palm!!

The more I use the use the Pre, the more I am concerned for it and all smart phones at this point.

It seems to me that the iPhone has crossed the line of competitor and has reached absolute dominator when it comes to web developers. Every other website has an iPhone version that allows quicker access to the key aspects of its content. I agree that it is not always done it the best manner, but if other companies feel that they need to drop the coin/investment into catering to that platform, what is going to open their eyes to develop for another?

And all of these companies rushing out to develop App's for it.. absolute insanity. The older, less likely to buy a smart phone, are even starting to buy into it.

Am i going insane when thinking that Palm had better get their crap together within six months? Seriously, if the SDK sucks that bad, and they are still trying to fill positions, and they didn't event think about gaming when developing the SDK or the Pre, maybe they deserve to fail.

The days of the Treo are over. You have to get this ready for Prime time soon Palm!!

I still love my Pre.

Dude people are gonna jump all over this post making excuses for PALM, but as far as Im concerned you are spot on. I see PALM as my grandfather trying to rap about WWII. The good intentions are there, but its just past your time. You want to keep up with the new but your stuck with the old mentality. Its sad too, because PALM was my transition into smartphones, but they ran face first back into this market with both guns cocked screaming "death to all who oppose", hoping noone would call their bluff because both guns are empty. Just a sad sad day.

This is fine and dandy, but it is not the majority in the BIG picture. Palm needs this edge to keep up with Apple. How many more Pre's do you think Palm would sell with this capability? My gut tells me over 50% more. Smart phones are not what they once were.. all business. App stores are not a draw/selling point without entertainment.

Dude people are gonna jump all over this post making excuses for PALM, but as far as Im concerned you are spot on. I see PALM as my grandfather trying to rap about WWII. The good intentions are there, but its just past your time. You want to keep up with the new but your stuck with the old mentality. Its sad too, because PALM was my transition into smartphones, but they ran face first back into this market with both guns cocked screaming "death to all who oppose", hoping noone would call their bluff because both guns are empty. Just a sad sad day.

There is no valid excuse for this oversight. I am still willing to give PALM the initial 6 months to get things together. They said it themselves, "We dont have a ton of products to deal with, just the Treo Pro, so this helps us focus on WEBOS and the Pre" Well, at this point, I think they better clean their glasses, because their focus seems to be clouded.

Why does anyone care what Apple does. In the big picture palm doesn't have to compete with Apple. I am tired of this notion that they need an "iphone killer". There is plenty of market for more than one phone out there and Palm does not need to compete with Apple in order to stay in business. They can stay a smaller company and make profits enough to keep in business and keep making good products and thats all I care about.

Apple was in the same position before they got into the whole iPhone/iPod business which made them huge again. Microsoft dominated the computer industry and Apple became a minority. They turned things around and put out OSX which has a lot of similarities to WebOS in the way people viewed it. Its still not anywhere near #1 but they have kept putting out great computers with great software on them. They do quite well selling laptops and mac mini's and don't have to be #1 as long as they do what they need to.

It has nothing to do with Apple. Who said it was an iPhone killer? Only those that wanted competition, or the same people that buy 10+ apps per month on their iPhones. (Mostly Games) EVERYONE knew Palm did not have a chance at that.

It has to do with competing with devices in its same category. Palm is the one that said everyone look out, were gonna shock the world.

As a stock holder, I am extremely concerned that they did not choose to view game sales/percentages from the App store into their calculations. Not to mention, having a capable device and not delivering the capability to eager developers.

While I find my Pre enjoyable, the simple fact is that after reviewing the SDK in its current form, it seems to be rather disappointing that they did not intend on using these features BUILT INTO the freaking device. They might as well have omitted the capability and saved us all cash. Would you, those that agree with this nonsense, have rather this been the solution?

Also, lets not forget that what we call phones today will be the future of computing. If you have one serious competitor out there, you better take this opportunity to stick your neck out there and make some noise. MS is hindered by WinMobi currently, but my bets on a MS device that really makes a dent within the next few years.

Thats the stuff most folk want these devices for, to help them with their busy and connected lives

Remember this is the first release of the SDK and to me it was more important to get it out there so folks can start writing stuff. There is no doubt that it will be given additional capabilities as it matures. How long did Apple take to get its SDK out there and how long before an App store was available and working for everyone?

There are many phones in this segment, Nokia, Samsung, Windowze Mobile, iPhone they all don't suffer from not copying the iPhone.

Nokia outsells almost every manufacturer combined. Are they know for games?

OK. I don't care about the Pre being an iPhone killer and I don't care about gaming apps. But I do want the use the iPhone optimized websites. Apple didn't put together those sites and those sites work perfectly for the Pre also.

I think Palm should have marketing or someone contact them to have them say smart phone sites or iPhone/Pre and I definitely think they should make sure those sites aren't closed down to the Pre or non-iPhone users.

In addition, some of the speed test that people keep using has been where the iPhone is viewing a iPhone web site and the Pre is bringing up the full site. We need some way to have our phones redirected to that optimized site instead of the full site or the mobile phone site.

If you look up Nokia's Wiki, you'll see they hold around 40% of the market share. The 2nd largest phone manufacturer, Samsung, has a market share of just under 20%. So if you delete Samsung from the equation, Nokia does sell as many as every other manufacturer combined. Even if you keep Samsung in the mix, they still double their next closest competitor in phone sales.

As for gaming, more power to the Iphone. Go ahead and play games, and some are quite good. The Pre may actually approach the gaming power of the Iphone, but we won't know until the games being developed are released.

The more I use the use the Pre, the more I am concerned for it and all smart phones at this point.

It seems to me that the iPhone has crossed the line of competitor and has reached absolute dominator when it comes to web developers. Every other website has an iPhone version that allows quicker access to the key aspects of its content. I agree that it is not always done it the best manner, but if other companies feel that they need to drop the coin/investment into catering to that platform, what is going to open their eyes to develop for another?

And all of these companies rushing out to develop App's for it.. absolute insanity. The older, less likely to buy a smart phone, are even starting to buy into it.

Am i going insane when thinking that Palm had better get their crap together within six months? Seriously, if the SDK sucks that bad, and they are still trying to fill positions, and they didn't event think about gaming when developing the SDK or the Pre, maybe they deserve to fail.

The days of the Treo are over. You have to get this ready for Prime time soon Palm!!

I still love my Pre.

Well when you sell millions of units that has revolutionized how people access the internet in their daily life, business will listen and act accordingly. That is not Palms fault. It seems you assume that no other smartphone will ever work in the long run because all these websites have been developed for the iphone and they wont do it for the Pre, Blackberry, or Android phone. Why would a business develop for any other platform because it costs them money? Well they do it to make money. If Web OS turns out to be a success companies will use resources to support the phone. It is not a difficult or expensive process due to the nature of Web OS. It will be interesting to see what happens in a year as Web OS appears on other handsets and more importantly on other carriers.

You also wonder if the SDK sucks. I assume its from reading the articles from the 3D gamer programmers. At the same time there are other developers who love the SDK and maybe you should search out those articles too. Palm decided that they wanted to make a device that would be easy to develop for through common web languages. The ease at developing the applications is the strength of Web OS. Any business that develops for the Pre does not have to worry about spending an enormous amount of time or resources to get an end result. In other words, it will be easy to make a profit on your work if you have a quality app that is useful. That being said if your app does not take off, well the money and time spent is not enormous. I can't think of a web design/ software company that will lose their shirt if they try to develop an app for the Pre. Its just not that hard.

I think way too much is being made about game development on this phone. First it can be done as shown by hackers. Second, Flash will open up many opportunities for game development. As it stands now, quite a few games can be easily developed for the Pre. No you wont get Resident Evil in 3D graphics glory but you can get all sorts of 2D games that will work fine when waiting at the bustop, or on a plane, or just when you want a breather from work.

I am glad you love your Pre but all your concerns lead me to think that you should just go get an iphone and then you wont have to have these worries and Pre related stress about their possible lack of games.

I'd also like to remind you that this platform has been out for a total of 44 days or around 1056 hours. In other words, lets have this conversation a year from now when we will have a better idea of how Web OS will be doing in the larger scheme of things.

Having used the iphone since it came out, i just don't see the appeal of anything 3D. The games i play are the SAME ones i had on past Treos. Bejeweled, chess, poker, scrabble, etc. Why is that?

1. Beyond casual games need buttons. Using a touchscreen only leads to madness..lol

2. I don't have time for anything beyond casual. They are time wasters..usually from 5-15 mins. And only if i'm cut off from 3G/wifi (which sucks..lol) or just not in the mood to browse.

3. If i want something beyond casual, i'll use my computer or PS3 and have a much better experience for it.

All i desire from Palm are the usual causal time wasters that smartphones have had for years. I strongly believe many would agree. Focus on multiplayer, not 3d.

As for web sites devoted to iphone, Palm cannot change this. Since iphone sites display great on the Pre, i'd try to hook into them somehow. I can't argue though how this might sell Joe Blow on the iphone seeing "made for iphone" sites everywhere.

I own a restaurant in fort worth texas. At any given moment you can see at least 5 people surfing the web on their web enabled phones. Everything from grandmas to construction guys to soccer moms. 4 years ago the only people surfing the web on their phones were the tech geeks and power business users. The iphone has done a wonderful job of making mobile computing easy for everyone. So yes, of course business is going to follow the trends of the consumer.
Most people use the term ipod as a generic description of all mp3 players. When I was a kid most people called all videos game consoles ataris. As moble phones become even more prevelant in our lives and competition grows everything will become more universal.

Thats the stuff most folk want these devices for, to help them with their busy and connected lives

Remember this is the first release of the SDK and to me it was more important to get it out there so folks can start writing stuff. There is no doubt that it will be given additional capabilities as it matures. How long did Apple take to get its SDK out there and how long before an App store was available and working for everyone?

There are many phones in this segment, Nokia, Samsung, Windowze Mobile, iPhone they all don't suffer from not copying the iPhone.

Nokia outsells almost every manufacturer combined. Are they know for games?

I'd like to take issue with most of your post. You are correct in that hardcore gamers will prefer a PSP for now. Already though hardcore games are being played on the iPhone/iPod Touch. There's a saying in the photography world that "the best camera is the one you have with you." If you have a fancy one at home and a lesser model on you, are you going to ask the world to stop so you can go home and get it?

Casual gamers don't play rarely. What they don't do is play compulsively like hardcore gamers. There's a difference. There's commuters on trains who play games on their phones everyday. Those aren't rare players. And its a market that overwhelmingly outnumbers the hardcore market, just take a look at the Nintendo Wii's sales vs the Sony PS3 and XBox 360.

Yes Nokia outsells everyone else. But everytime someone points this out its like they're totally ignoring that the vast majority of the phones Nokia sells are simple cheap dumbphones, and the market for those is shrinking. Nokia's high end expensive phones have taken a serious hit in sales and thats where most of their profit is. Nokia: Profits Down 90%, But At Least We’ve Hit Bottom

The big profits are in the smartphone sector hence: Whoa, Apple and RIM Make a Lot of Money - Apple - Gizmodo
"Surprise, Apple and RIM actually make a lot of money despite selling only 3 percent of the world's cellphones. Together, they pull in 35 percent of the industry's operating profits. An analyst suggests that if iPhone and BlackBerry's marketshare climbs to 5 percent, they'll rake in something like 58 percent of the industry's operating profits.