My friend who owns a local pet boutique, who only carries high-end kibbles, is having the rep from "Best Breeds" dog food come to one of her events. Their website is here: http://www.bestbreed.com . The food is only rated two stars, and seriously? Breed specific kibble? Well, I told my friend that this food isn't anywhere close to the Orijen, TOTW, Blue, etc that she carries, and she just told me that the rep from Best Breeds is interested in talking to me.

While it is definitely better than Dad's, Ol' Roy or Beneful, (it's not total crap), I'm sure the price that it will retail for will not be in line with the quality.

For example...I've switched my pack over to the Tractor Supply Company brand food, 4Health (from Diamond Naturals). This is a relatively cheap food, but the quality is good...with this many dogs, I settle for good quality at a low price.

I compared the ingredients of the Working Dog food from Best Breed (that's what I'd be interested in, if I were shopping for their food...as Odd and Score both eat large quantities of high-energy food). They can't even stack up well to the TSC 4Health food...which has chicken and chicken meal and chicken fat in the first five ingredients. The 4Health also has two different grains (rice and barley) rounding out the top five, unlike the Best Breed which has rice TWICE in the first five ingredients.

That is very telling to me...that they can't stack up against a non-premium food from Tractor Supply!

"I don't have any idea if my dogs respect me or not, but they're greedy and I have their stuff." -- Patty Ruzzo

"Dogs don't want to control people. They want to control their own lives." --John Bradshaw

The Royal Canin breed specific foods are very popular. Not that I would feed it, but maybe that is why they are trying this marketing trick. Some say beet pulp is linked to bloat, but I've heard this is a myth. Lots of foods have it, but usually not the high quality ones. I wouldn't say it is a terrible diet, compared to a lot of the crap out there, but I'd like to see some probiotics, some cranberries or other antioxidant-rich fruits (it does have tomato, but that's it).

Most (5 of 7) have two meat meals, but the second is pretty far back in all of them.

With the exception of 7, beet pulp is in the top four ingredients. It's a bulk fiber that is a pre-biotic in small amounts, but is really there to take up space and give the dog firm poops when it's that far up the list.

Number 7 has two rice in the list, not good.

Though the jury is out on "egg product" I'm not a fan. If it's whole eggs (without shells), why the game? Is it yolk or white? Dried or not (makes a big difference)?

Brewers yeast - has a lot of protein (just under 50%), so boosts the protein profile of the food, but is cheaper than getting it from meat.

Pearled barley (5/7) - a grain, when it's pearled it doesn't have the complete nutritional profile of barley

Three meals, four "fresh" (which, of course makes those ingredients fall quite a bit) but even accounting for that, the first three ingredients of Origen are meat meals. Though two potatoes aren't the best here, I think the amount of meat over balances that.

Three meals, two fresh, only three non-animal source ingredients in the list. Since it just says eggs, I'll assume they are fresh, which makes them fall off that list in processing, but it's still a while food.

Two meals, still don't like the "egg product", fresh bison falls, roasted meats have less water than fresh meats so don't fall as far, not liking the two potatoes but five meats (even with the different profiles) balance that out a little.

I'd argue with Michelle on one point...having grains does not make it a non-high end food. Comparing grain free food ingredients to a food with grains is a bit skewed. I know you were comparing it to other foods that she carries, but it isn't quite the same in my book.

The Blue Buffalo is a good comparison...since it does have grains, but are BETTER grains, since they have whole grains in there. So I'd say the Blue Buffalo is a step up from the Best Breed...especially since the Best Breed has a lot of rice instead of different grains.

"I don't have any idea if my dogs respect me or not, but they're greedy and I have their stuff." -- Patty Ruzzo

"Dogs don't want to control people. They want to control their own lives." --John Bradshaw

TheRedQueen wrote:I'd argue with Michelle on one point...having grains does not make it a non-high end food. Comparing grain free food ingredients to a food with grains is a bit skewed. I know you were comparing it to other foods that she carries, but it isn't quite the same in my book.

No, having grains does not make it a non-high end food. Having more grains than meat is what I have issue with. But I see what you're saying, and it's a valid point.

The Blue Buffalo is a good comparison...since it does have grains, but are BETTER grains, since they have whole grains in there. So I'd say the Blue Buffalo is a step up from the Best Breed...especially since the Best Breed has a lot of rice instead of different grains.

keep in mind, high protein has been linked to dogs acquiring early onset kidney failure, particularly so with the Orijen.

I'm not sure there has been any scientific comparison yet to determine what protein content is best, or if there is one? But I haven't looked hard, either.

I can only please one person per day. Today is not your day, tomorrow doesn't look good either.
_______________________________________
"You didn't know of the magical powers of the break stick? It's up there with genies and Harry Potter as far as magic levels go." SisMorphine 01/07/07

Malli wrote:keep in mind, high protein has been linked to dogs acquiring early onset kidney failure, particularly so with the Orijen.

I'd be interested to see the studies on that. With humans, the studies about "high protein diets leading to kidney problems" were mostly done on people who already had kidney problems. Are the dog ones non-biased? And why would Orijen cause it more than other foods?

And also, if that's correct, is there correlating data with dogs who are fed raw?

I'm going to hazard a guess that the bigger problem is not enough water intake.

Michelle

Inside me is a thin woman trying to get out. I usually shut the bitch up with a martini.

pitbullmamaliz wrote:And raw is only something like 16-18% protein. Everybody thinks it's high in protein, but it's really not.

Yes and no. It depends on what you're feeding, how lean that meat is and how much bone there is. A boneless skinless chicken breast is going to have a higher percentage of protein than a skin-on, bone in, chicken quarter. A "serving" of chicken is four ounces (raw), or 113 grams, and there anywhere from 21-48 grams of protein in each serving (depends on how the bird was fed and the kind of bird.)

The other thing is the bio-availability of that protein. When foods are processed their nutritional values are often inflated - things are added that are unuseable by the body, but since they are there, they still "count." For example, pasteurization of milk greatly lowers the bio-availability of calcium. The amount of calcium in the milk is still there, but your body can't actually access it. Vitamin companies are notorious for that, they put completely unusable forms of vitamins and minerals into their pills, because the item is there. It's not their concern that you actually can't get at any of it, so you just pee it out (well, that depends on the particular item, but that's not really germane to the matter at hand.)

That's one of the things about raw vs kibble feeding. Look at the difference in poop volume - most dogs on raw have tiny little poops, because their bodies are using every bit of what they are eating. Dogs on kibble poop more, and there's more of it because the food has a lot of stuff the body can't use. The volume of our dog's poop is much higher after a vegetable meal than a meat meal. But they get a pound of food regardless.

That's what led to the melanine being added to dog food a few years ago. It has protein in it, so when the food's numbers are calculated, the protein content is fine (but the source of that protein is poison, so it's not like the dog is getting anything good from it.)

Cats are obligate carnivores. Kibble is completely unnatural for them. When pet food was first manufactured, pet cats were dieing because cooking meat destroys taurene and cats don't make their own. A raw diet is the actual only way you can feed them and not give them supplements (not that my brat cats would ever bother to eat it!) or have the supplements added to the food after the processing as is the case with taurene.

Michelle

Inside me is a thin woman trying to get out. I usually shut the bitch up with a martini.

I don't have any studies off hand. I know my friend who worked for a local vet actually attended a talk where someone came in, and warned the staff that this was going on. Further to that, I mentioned at a local pet store that I was cocerned with high protein content in food for my dog, and the owner mentioned all on his own that it had been an issue with Orijen.Orijen because as I understand it the protein content is higher then most?

I don't know of any studies on anything other then bacterial gi infection issues with regards to raw, and can't recall their location as I've not seen them in a long time.

I can speak from my own anecdotal evidence. My puppy was moved from a Purina brand food to a newer food called Acana; normally in my house, you eat what you are given and thats that. After 1 week, highly food motivated(and not picky puppy) dog went off his food, ate maybe 1/2 to 1/4 of what he was being offered. In addition, he had two bouts where he vomited up all of the food he had eaten 1-2 hrs prior, and acted nauseous for car rides. I picked a different food and went in to buy it, which is when I had the conversation with the store owner, and was informed that the food he was on was made by orijen.New food has 26(?)% protein and he has no problem eating it.

As far as the water - kidney issues, I don't really know of any correlation. Oscar keeps his urine concentrated, numerous urinalysis he has had it always is, one technician commented that he had a concentration like a cat (I suppose they are frequently concentrated), he almost always have access to water and has yet -touch wood- to have an issue. My understanding is this is more of an issue with regards to cats and water intake. May be mistaken though.

I can only please one person per day. Today is not your day, tomorrow doesn't look good either.
_______________________________________
"You didn't know of the magical powers of the break stick? It's up there with genies and Harry Potter as far as magic levels go." SisMorphine 01/07/07