PAK FA - T50 at M

The Russian PAK FA T-50 aircraft flew in public for the first time at the MAKS airshow. A small turn out of people appeared compared to western
airshows!

I love this plane - it has such a small cross section, watch it when it turns and the section in front of the tail top to bottom, its like a size
ZERO. Cant wait to see more of it, internal stores cant be that big though with such a small X section.

It has heaps of leading edges, supposed to have thrust vectoring but i cant see that here and what do you suppose the strange thing sticking out the
back is for?

Thanks for posting this, this seems like a limited display and I agree with the observation of little to no thrust vectoring. This would be due to not
sufficient hours with the TVS, not wanting show the aircraft's full capability yet and not risking a debut display failure or worst, plane loss.

The same has been done with the debut display flights of both the Typhoon and the F-22.

If you see as he turns the plane, and moves the back fins, the vectors, right behind the engine move. If you look closely at your video, they are just
engines. They have nothing on the back that would support Thrust Vectoring. Its just the Russians trying to show they arent weak, as we all know they
are.

Well look at this beautiful beast without thrust vectoring or real stealth, do you think F35 could carry 4 paveway II, external tanks, sidewinders, 4
amraams and do these moves? Stealth is great but you still need weapons.

It is cheating a bit though cos it cant drop those bombs without a litening 2 pod which would be centreline (i think). or it could carry a BVR CALCAM
or another 1500l fuel tank.

Also, take each of those Paveway 2 pylons and they can carry 8 hellfire.

So that is a SF guy or Apache or UAV designating 32 tanks when the Typhoon flies over, fires the missles then fights its way out.

Tanks are so 2001...

Its Apples and Oranges folks but let the technology fly and hope we never have to use it in Defence!!

This aircraft has impressed me from day one. Come 2013, when the first serial model rolls out, it will be the most lethal bird in the sky.

For those of you who haven't been following the PAK FA program take notes.
Here's some basics, I'll keep it simple...

1. It has logged less than 100 flights so far.

2. There are two flying prototypes, a third one may be rolled out late August or early September, and a fourth by December or early 2012.

3. Both flying prototypes have fully functioning 3D TVC.

4. There is currently a 5g limit placed on the airframe for testing and safety reasons. (why they don't use TVC for this demo)

5. It has two main IRST sensors, one in front of the canopy, like all previous flankers and one behind the canopy.

6. The main AESA radar that will be on the T-50 has more T/R modules than the one currently deployed on the F-22, which translates to more power if
given proper cooling. Multiple AESA 's have been hinted at, including L-band arrays in the leading edges.

7. Official sources recently hinted at very low altitude terrain following capability.

8. T-50 can carry 4 of the new RVV-BD long range air to air missiles internally. Giving the T-50 an unrivaled 250km range while still retaining a
stealthy profile.

9. Engines will be changed either on the 2013 serial model, or upgraded shortly after. It will have either 2D or 2.5D TVC.

Here's a speculative CG design based off of patent information for the engines, it is highly likely this will be final layout, or something very
similar in shape.

Although I am higly doubtful of the new missile system from the Russians, designing it to hunt AWACS is very smart.

The F-22 (and F-35 for that matter) can only do so much while in 'stealth mode' (passive only). Removing the AWACS, which provide the active
scanning (far behind the frontlines), might force the F-22 to go active for full capabilities.

Once it goes fulll active, it is no longer stealth.

That puts the T-50 and F-22 on even ground for the rest of the game (the T-50 having gone active to fully aquire the AWACS).

Don't even get me started on why this will not bode well for the US if the Russian missile is as good as they claim, and they start hunting
tankers....unless of course the Russians are the aggressors.

I'm starting to think the Russians might be on to something, just enough stealth to defeat passive scans is really more than adequate if you think
about it. As any plane that runs active radar is pretty much a beacon.

250 seems to be the number circulating among aviation forums. RVV-BD is a lighter weight version of the R-37 missile which was shown in the early 90s
IIRC. The range of a missile depends a lot on the trajectory and speed of the aircraft launching it. The R-37 during trials successfully destroyed a
target at 300km more than a decade ago, I'm not sure if that record has ever been beaten, so I would assume the more modern RVV-BD can do the
same.

We cannot say what size of aircraft this missile can shoot down. The guidance system is unknown, and nobody really knows how much range AESA's have.
If the USAF is confident an F-35s AIM 120 can down a PAK FA or J-20, at 100km, who's to say the larger RVV-BD cannot do it at 250 if it can detect
the target?

Sukhoi must be highly confident in their machine. No body outside of LockMart, Sukhoi, etc. knows the true capabilities or limitations of their
aircraft and weapons, but you can get a good estimate through research. I'm just glad sukhoi has provided us with some very nice close up video and
photos of their aircraft, something I wish the Chinese would do with the J-20.

I have been thinking about this today, so we have all these aircraft projects, but yet surely stealth secret missiles would be easier to develop in
secret? And yet like you say, the Americans are super confident with their AIM120 which once the F-22 doors open and it gets a 'lock' its Billions
of dollars of Stealth Technology are put at more risk.

And then you fire an non stealthy missile which your adversaries aircraft can countermeasure.

A Taiwan defense official said Beijing is developing a new air-to-air missile, the PL-21, designed specifically for stealth aircraft. Powered by a
ramjet and solid rocket propulsion system, the PL-21 will have a range of 100 kilometers

and then:

A new long-range active radar homing AAM has been under development. Based on some of the PL-12 technology, PL-21 appears similar to British Meteror.
It features an active radar seeker and an integrated ramjet/solid rocket motor with a single belly air inlet. PL-21 also features 4 small stabilzing
fins behind the active radar seeker, a characteristics of Russian R-27/AA-10. Two-way datalink antennas may be installed in the tail section for
mid-course correction. The effective range of PL-21 is expected to be >100km. The missile might be carried by the new J-11B fighter for long-range
interception. The latest rumor suggested that the first ground launch test took place in March 2010. The development was projected to be completed by
2012.

Yet it is still somewhat half the claimed performance of the Russian Missile.

Regarding missiles, it's a size game. Fuel and efficiency. Russia is currently the world leader in long range missile technology, although many seem
to be able to produce good MRAAMs, that should not even have to be pointed out. Russian SAMs and anti-ship missiles have no rivals.

I can hardly trust any specs coming out of China, do you think Taiwan would be any more reliable? I've never seen a picture of a "PL-21", but I did
remember looking it up a while back after someone on another forum said it had 400-800km range

. I don't think anyone can claim to know this
missiles capability, and still maintain their credibility. It might just be too short of a missile to achieve those ranges, perhaps they wanted an
indigenous missile comparable to the Meteor?

Keep in mind, these long range AtA missiles are more like cruise missiles than AA-12s and AIM 120s. Much consideration went into the T-50s weapon bays
to accommodate these larger payloads.

If tests are to begin in 2013, as you say, then 2018 is actually entirely reasonable for an in service date. Engine proving is quite a lengthy
process. If it happens before then, great. But it would be perfectly normal if it doesn't.

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