DFW, TX Some questions about Star Wars

Well, I'm only gonna throw my 2 cents in for your first point Brandon. I personally think that Yoda was lying to Luke. It wouldn't be the first time. Of course, it depends on your frame of reference too. The Light side promotes life and harmony (balance in the Force). But when you look at what makes up the Dark side, you have power and destruction. And in a fight, that's what I would want. Fear, hate, anger are all powerful emotions and when controlled and focused on a target, they are hard to stop.

Oh, and pansy-boy Luke was tapping into the Dark side when he was throwin' his little green Lightsaber around. Recall that duel a bit closer. It started out with just a few short swings traded back and forth, here and there while he was still focused on turning his father. THEN daddy felt "sister" and Luke went into an unfocused-blind RAGE, full of hate. At that moment, he hated the Emperor for all the crap in the universe, he hated Ben and Yoda for their deceit and treachery, he hated Vader for finding out about Leia, but most of all he hated himself for letting Vader find out, for letting himself be used like a pawn in the game between the Emperor and the Jedi. And it all came pooring out of the flood gates at once, all over poor Anakin. Then, that startling moment when he cut Vader's hand off and he was faced with the fact that he was truely his father's son. In an instant, he saw the parallels between himself and his father (the hand, the CAVE!). Luke regained his senses and threw down his Saber, determained to not follow in his father's footsteps any longer. He had almost become what he was trying to bring his father back from. Then he was back to being a weak Jedi again. And the Emperor began to strike. You know the rest.

The facts I read are out of the Star Wars books. Not the novels. But the Essential guilde to vehicles and vessels. So I am not grasping at straws. WEritten by Bill Smith and it says that there were 4 super Stars Destroyers. counting the one lost at Endor

Yes, I know that the empire can easily recuit millions and millions of troopers by taking a populace and drafting them. What I am saying is that they would not be die hard loyal to the emipor, Not their commander, Not their unit, Not even to the empire, But to the empiror himself. Which is what that kind of person wanted. total control. Which he would not get with drafted troops.

And if they put in more orders for troops ATOC. and kept the oder up. and even uping the orders. There would be a seadty supply of millions of troopers. Cause there was more than one city on the planet that could produce clones

As for Leia and Vader.. The question was. If she was his child. Would he have not sensed it. After all. He knew who Luke was. And nobody told him in ESB. He just came out and said.."I am your father" how did he know? Did I miss somewhere in the film where someone told him. And how did they know?

I agree...This is a good debate, And if I am incorrect with my facts. I want to know, So when I am debating again. I would bring up incorrect facts. But the sources I have, Say that the numbers do not add up.

No, no one ever told Vader who Luke was. But given the 3-5 year difference from the end of ANH to the begining of ESB, I'm sure he did some research and found out who the guy that blew up the Death Star was. Recall that even at the end of ANH, he never refered to Luke as son nor tried to contact him. He just made the statement "the Force is strong with this one", implying that he could feel the presence of the Force with that peticular X-Wing pilot. So he finds out that it was some kid named Luke Skywalker. WOW! Same name. Then he began his search for his son, which leads us up to the start of ESB.

But Leia never tapped into the Force, nor did she carry the name of Skywalker. So Vader never felt her, nor was he looking for her.

First of all, the name of the pilot that destroyed the Death Star and saved the Rebellion would have quickly become the greatest symbol the Rebels had. His name would become famous pretty quick. And when Vader heard who it was, he managed to put two and two together.

Of course, finding out his name and finding him are two different things.

Now, onto the books--I've read 'em all. And I'm sorry to disappoint you, but unless you see it in the films, it doesn't exist. There are some books that don't directly contradict anything in the films, but regardless, if you didn't see it on celluloid, it didn't happen. EU and supplements are nice reads most of the time, and can be quite fun. But they are not considered cannon.

For the record, I 100% agree with Icer on his clone theory. I've been arguring the same thing for the past few days.

I agree with Brand-X with what Yoda said about the Dark Side not being MORE powerful. However, I also agree with DarthChocolate about his Dark Side theory. BUT is it possible that plaine RAW power of the dark side is NOT more powerful? Remember what Anakin said in AOTC about compassion and unconditional love being assential to a Jedi? Yes, Luke lashed out in rage, then realized what he did and dropped his weapon, then the Emporer struck. I don't think Luke gave up at that point and became a wuss. I think he knew what his father always knew...the one thing the Jedi or the Sith never focused on...UNCONDITIONAL LOVE (Maybe the ONE thing Anankin got right early on). And it triggered something in Vader. He saw that his son refused to destroy him or the Emporer, that his son was willing to sacrifice himself instead. Vader/Anakin realized at that point that the true power of the Force was being exibited at that moment: a sons unconditional love for a father who had turned to evil. At that point, the TRUE light of the Force had outshown the darkness/dark side and a fathers redemption had begun.

Sorry Eric, I would have to disagree. I'm not saying that Luke did the wrong thing but throwing his saber down, but it was not "Force" related. That was a moral decision, something to do with ethics. But it was not an exhibition of Force power or potential. It was just plain restraint.

The Light side Jedi always seem to choose restraint and not kill when possible. That shows good moral character. But the Dark side show no restraint. They are willing to go the distance and use the Force to do so.

So Mike. You're saying because Luke was on the offensive during that battle between Vader that he was tapping into the dark side? Now I agree that towards the end of the Battle his anger was taking control of him.

What about Mace's short battle with Jango? Was he tapping into the dark side by killing him the way he did?

As for the Dark Side being stronger I beloive Yoda was telling the truth. What we see in AOTC should prove that. Dooku is obviously powerful withthe Dark Side but he is still no match for Yoda. I think it all depends on ones knowledge of the force.

No, MAce was not tapping the Dark side against Jango. He was calm and collective. But then, JAngo wasn't tapping any side of the Force. And Luke was only getting strength from the Dark side after Vader found out about "sister".

I'd love to see ANY Jedi go up against Darth Sidious. They would get their asses handed to them on a silver platter.

As for the Dark Side being stronger I beloive Yoda was telling the truth. What we see in AOTC should prove that. Dooku is obviously powerful withthe Dark Side but he is still no match for Yoda. I think it all depends on ones knowledge of the force.

I agree with Firehawk

In the battle between Yoda and Dooku, Dooku only started to use the Saber after admitting that they both pocessed great KNOWLEDGE of the force.

Is it just me? Or...
In ANH Luke says he want to go to the Academy. What exactly is he talking about. I havernt watched ANH in a while but I thought he was considering joining the Empire. I'm probably gravely mistaken here though. But if for some chance I'm right here then if they accept people to the empire (not counting high officers etc.) then it's unlikely that clones are used still. Plus don't you think that in Ep3 the Separatists would try to destroy the cloning planet. I mean it has no defense whatsoever.

The Academy, from my understanding is where the Empire gained it's pilot corps and also trained its officers. However, I think it's also where just about every pilot worth anything gets trained, even for things such as freighters, etc. But at that point in time, most of the pilots ended up being drafted into the Empire. Biggs talks about it to Luke in the deleted scenes of ANH.

I think Luke saw the academy as a stepping stone to a career as a pilot, much as commercial airline pilots typically have military pilot backgrounds.

I've believed that he remembered it all for a long time now. Too bad even the Jedi are too ignorant to see the emergence of new LIFE when they see it. Most droids are simply programmed machines, but there are a few who are more than the sum of their programming.

Just like some organic life can use the Force, some mech forms hold the spark of Life. Maybe a bunch of Midichlorians in their fluids or in their chips if you wanna Trek-ify it.

R2 deserved a medal for the Battle of Yavin as much as Chewie did. And the Wookie didn't get his head shot by a punk kid he whose life he saved!
Chewie got his medal on an MTV Movie Awards, R2 is still waiting for his.

--Regarding the question of which "side" is stronger, the light or the dark... I think Lucas himself would argue that neither is stronger... they are equal and opposite sides of an equation that requires them both. Remember Lucas' penchant for Eastern religion (Buddhism, Taoism, Shintoism, etc.). Think of the Yin/Yang symbol. One of the important keys to Eastern thought is "balance." What is "good" without "evil?" You must know one to recognize the other. The opposite sides of the Force balance each other, thus when the Force got out of balance, ie. the dark side became too strong, Anakin brought balance by destroying the Emperor.

See one thing that I love about this is we are left with only our thoughts and not hard evidence as in life. I think that Brandon has a point that in all things in this world there must be balance. I think that the Dark side has the potential to be more dangerous but not stronger... Because of their total lack of regard for human life. I do think that The clone planet will be blown up. And Sith Daddy brought up a good point when I was on the phone earlier and that is the fact that they have reqruitment centers and the academy in ANH. And another point to make about StormTroopers being clones. Leia say to luke " ARENT YOU A LITTLE SHORT TO BE A STORM TROOPER". In the detention area if storm troopers were clones then they would have noticed the lil short guy and probably started shooting at him..... It was too Obvious... Sorry the clone thing doest cut it. And the Academy that luke was talking about was The Imperial Academy. Like Kurgan said it was a stepping stone for pilots.

I beg to differ Mike about Mace touching the Dark side. I think that killing in general puts them even closer to the dark side. And if you recall the look on S/J Mace Windu's face after he beheaded the ever so popular Jengo he had a mysterious evil little eye thing like "take that you smug SOB". its simple really. I think that because the light focusses on restraint and the Dark embraces.... That when killing a living being they are embracing the taking or ones life,because lets face it Mace could have cut both hands and feet off then he still wouldnt be a threat....

Mace uses a lightsaber fighting style that that brushes a little on the dark side. Only Jedi Council Masters can use this form cause if the Jedi Knights or Padawans get a hold of the form the will fall to the dark side cause they do not know how to keep the balance like the Masters do. I'm sure Yoda also used this form when he was fighting Dooku...just look at his face after he ignites his lightsaber and charges at Dooku...he looks angry

KRWADE. So then was Obi Wan tapping into the dark when he killed the Mantis type creature in the arena? I mean he didn't just kill the thing, he minced it into tiny bits...well not really but he did cut off everything he could before dealing the final blow.

I equate it like this. If you kill a bird and it is the first time you have done it you may feel a little remorse, but after time if you are hungry enough the remorse will subside. I think that when it comes to creatures that have the ability to communicate and have reasoning power then it digs a little deeper into your soul. Jango Joe I will have to disagree with you because if that were the case then Count Dooku wouldnt be on the dark side now would he....

And Kurgan I dont think it has anything to do with anger, but just emotion in general. The look on the Jedi's faces isnt just determination it is lets get these MFers before they get us..