Hey guys, since we have our group I thought I'd change us over to an OOC thread since we've got our crop of players :)

By my reckoning we've currently got...
- Torthen Azduum, the Dwarven Oracle played by Rizzym Jaderenai
- Madeline Peshtussle, the Human(?) Summoner/Bard played by Sunset
- Tharnik of Clan Black Sun, the Half-Orc Oracle played by Jason Sonia
- Rendel Bladetwist, the Human Inquisitor played by TarkXT
- Creel Candleman, the Human Paladin played by Poor Wandering One

Not sure what else to say but please stay tuned since I'll no doubt continue with the commentary and questions :P

"Also as a GM I'd like to hear the reasons why a lawful good character would justify a crimeless murder. By this I mean how would someone justify a murder to stop potential evil without themselves being something more in line with Lawful Evil."

From Creel's point of view you can't justify this.

You are taking an immediate permanent action to remove a future potential evil. That word 'potential' is the key. To those of us trapped in this blood-soaked samsara the future is unknown and, so far as we know unfixed. Killing or otherwise punishing someone NOW for something they MIGHT do later is definitely an action belonging, to quote Belkar "the deep end of the alignment chart." It denies the personal agency of the pontentially evil/evil causing person and it is an act of cowardice, neither are acceptable.

So if you want to kill baby Hitler you will have to go through Creel.

Mind you if you want to watch the bastard, or change the environment, I'm all for it. I have wondered what would happen if Hitlers family inherited some silver mines in the far Argentines and moved there to a life of luxury.

Alright. I did some research, and it seems all the worthwhile [earth] descriptor spells, the stuff I'd like to play, is druid oriented. So, to further class balance, I'd like permission to switch to a druid with the Earth domain, and maybe keep the visual effect I had in mind for the Oracle curse?

If not, I completely understand, but it's something I'd like to consider. I'll be able to post again in a few hours.

From my characters point of view someone being detected as Evil doens't mean automatic execution.

However it does mean that they have made life choices and taken actions that the character would find reprehensible and disgusting. To him, a mortal who has chosen evil is a disgusting and wretched creature worse than undead and demons. You see, demons and undead are evil by nature, they can't help what they are. A mortal on the other hand always has a choice. On the flip side he does understand that mortals are also capable of change but he'd be damned to unending torment before he'd let an innocent be harmed by said evil person.

Alright. I did some research, and it seems all the worthwhile [earth] descriptor spells, the stuff I'd like to play, is druid oriented. So, to further class balance, I'd like permission to switch to a druid with the Earth domain, and maybe keep the visual effect I had in mind for the Oracle curse?

If not, I completely understand, but it's something I'd like to consider. I'll be able to post again in a few hours.

I like the idea of a Dwarven Deep Delving Druid :> I assume you will be a cave druid? It is a nice alternate class.

Doing this should also give you and the battle oracle some room to grow apart.

Sounds like a cool idea. Mind you it mixes up the alignments a bit as well.

To Jörmungandr with your permission I will be fluffing the det. evil as smell based. No changes to the rules [u]at all,[/u] including the one where I think blindness bolixes the detect, all I will be doing is rp'ing a 'sent of evil' sort of thing. That ok?

Alright. I did some research, and it seems all the worthwhile [earth] descriptor spells, the stuff I'd like to play, is druid oriented. So, to further class balance, I'd like permission to switch to a druid with the Earth domain, and maybe keep the visual effect I had in mind for the Oracle curse?

If not, I completely understand, but it's something I'd like to consider. I'll be able to post again in a few hours.

It occurs to me that you might be better off just asking to be able to take said spells for thematic reasons. Plus Druids as a class adds a bunch of stuff that doesn't really work with your theme. Oracle works imho simply because your powers are equally a curse as they are a benefit. You are becomign closer to the bones of the world and can feel the pulse of life rushing through it unfortunately the closer to that stone you get to the more you become like it until you become a rather fashionable lawn dwarf.

Probably a good idea, but I hate asking for handouts, y'know? It's closer to the mechanical effect, since the druid list has many, many more [earth] descriptors ( stone fist, spike stones, etc. ), compared to what oracles get. It kind of kills the original concept, but it's what I had envisioned mechanically more - as a result, it's my fault for not looking at the spell-list first.

Alright. He'll be posted a druid soon - I really agreed with you on keeping the concept alive, Rendel, but there's so much against my concept as far as what he can do. He's so mixed when it comes to being an oracle, but if I go Druid, he becomes a pure-caster with melee tendencies, which opens the doors for you to show your strengths more, and gives us more options to do things with.

I think I'll have to tweak a few things, but other than that, the concept's similar. He'll either be a Cave Druid or Mountain, probably the latter (since then his wild shape is kind of cool - Giant shape!)

I'd like to keep the Curse of Wasting, without the bonuses, if that's fine, Jorm? It'll keep me close to my original concept.

With Torthen going Druid, do I need to stay "cure" or should I switch to "inflict"? What's the overall consensus?

As a side note: It would be really cool if I started inflict (evil) and, as I shifted alignment, went cure. I know that the class requires a choice and once chosen, you have to stick, but I was thinking more about the theme. I think it would be cool.

Also, I'm glad to hear I'll get to actually play out the alignment side of things without worrying too much about a knife fight as soon as our Pally gets a whiff of me.

I'm not a fan of saying no in general but, and I know its only a trait, but the bold section implies that a character with "History of Heresy" has truly given up all religion and become an atheist or if they still recognize the existence of the gods, they hate them.

As a result, you have turned your back on religious teachings, and as long as you do not possess any levels in a class that grants divine spell casting power, you gain a +1 trait bonus on all saving throws made against divine spells.

Basically the way I understand Paladins is they are literally granted their powers by the gods and if you rejected the gods you'd lose your access to your holy powers. Basically if you wanted to play a totally disillusioned paladin it may be easier to play a fighter who was once a pally.

Aw rats....
Oh well it was a little min-maxish as well. Back to Militia Trained!

~will

Note: Creel venerates ALL good deities esp. the LG ones but he is not a worshipper of any one in particular. He sees worship as a way to give up an adherents personal agency and responsibilities. Not a problem so long as the Deity/Church stays on the right side of the ledger but things can change. Everything gets tested against his personal code, even Iomedae.

Hmmm just noticed this:
"Associates: While she may adventure with good or neutral allies, a paladin avoids working with evil characters or with anyone who consistently offends her moral code. Under exceptional circumstances, a paladin can ally with evil associates, but only to defeat what she believes to be a greater evil. A paladin should seek an atonement spell periodically during such an unusual alliance, and should end the alliance immediately should she feel it is doing more harm than good. A paladin may accept only henchmen, followers, or cohorts who are lawful good."

Will this cause a problem? Atonement is a 5th lvl spell it will be a bit before we can access it.

Strange we may be running a redemption and a fall arc in the same game.
Maybe we will meet in the middle and become druids.

"Associates: While she may adventure with good or neutral allies, a paladin avoids working with evil characters or with anyone who consistently offends her moral code. Under exceptional circumstances, a paladin can ally with evil associates, but only to defeat what she believes to be a greater evil. A paladin should seek an atonement spell periodically during such an unusual alliance, and should end the alliance immediately should she feel it is doing more harm than good. A paladin may accept only henchmen, followers, or cohorts who are lawful good."

Will this cause a problem? Atonement is a 5th lvl spell it will be a bit before we can access it.

Strange we may be running a redemption and a fall arc in the same game.
Maybe we will meet in the middle and become druids.

~will

From my perspective as a player in this game it feels that the world serpent has already decided that it won't be a factor if the orc doesn't go around wearing baby skin hat. As a GM it seems to me that this is a case of mechanics getting in the way of a potentially good story. The player has already spoken of a desire to play the redemption game which should be right up the paladins alley. It feels that the intent of that portion of the conduct was to prevent the paladin from assisting those who were doing evil but did no evil themselves.

Just a couple of things on Madeline, you don't have a trait from the Player's Guide, it'll either be Heirloom Weapon or Rich Parents, not both sadly. Also you have Gunsmithing as a feat, if you do a double check of my first post in the recruitment thread I said...

"I'll allow all the classes and races present in the player's guide but don't really want to include anything not in the Paizo published books asides from the Magus."

So the gunslinger and merits designed for ultimate combat are out sorry. Also rereading the section on firearms in the Inner Sea Campaign Setting, you're a lot more likely to blow yourself apart before you get to a level where a firearms comes full circle and becomes useful again. I mean at this stage you'll take a -4 to all attacks with a firearm, need to spend exorbitant amounts of money on black powder and repairs and that's if I bend the setting to have gunsmiths in most towns you guys come across.

Once ultimate combat comes out I understand that the entire Golarion setting will probably become a chunk more steam-punk friendly but at this point with the published rules available its probably not best as a player trying to be a pistolier and a summoner at the same time.

Okay guys, having looked over the characters, Tharnik, Creel and Rendel all look sexy to me, I may have missed something but from my reading they all look good.

Now, for my problem player, dude, Torthen's whole sheet is just horrible... I'm kidding of course, you're just still built as an oracle rather then a druid :)

Also I'm in agreement with Rendel, while RAW may seem to indicate no evil party members for a Paladin RAI do support a character going through a redemption arc being able to join a good party with no particular qualms. Only reason I didn't let "History of Heresy" slide is both RAW and RAI seem to indicate a complete disgust with, and turning away from, the organized religions and gods of Golarion.

In fact as a GM I'd stress the difficulty of interacting with a character with "History of Heresy" over a Lawful evil character for the majority of paladins. Though, if I was bothering to go into deconstructing the setting too much I'd begin to point out that I'd have no problems with paladins of Nethys or Rovagug and about how I thought that the idea of "Lawful Good" paladins are a leftover construct of DND3.5 and that it doesn't mesh well in my mind with a multitude of gods, good, evil and neutral, in a setting. Just my 2cp :P

I'd presume you would have a worn brace for carry the halberd, otherwise the butt of the both thing would be fairly shabby from any walking you do. If you typically wear it though I'm sure one of your fellow mourners would volunteer and hand to carry it for you. Only reason its probably easier this way is you get offered some room and board after the initial scene.

@Creel: I did go the Mountain route - it's not visible yet, since I need to be level 2 to get access to anything different. Will post shortly.

Cool. I am the same way. There is no difference between a WotHL and a trad paladin until 4th level.

Getting a tad nervous now that this is off the ground.

~Creel

Rendel Forgive me if this trespassing but I can't figure out how you ended up with a +2 with the x-bow. I show +1DEX and +0BAB, did I miss something? Again I apologise if I am tresspassing. I am not that good at making Pathfinder characters so I tend to poke around seeing how other folks do things.

PS. Is the convention to bold spoken text? I am not sure of the etiquette.
~Creel