Posted 3 years ago on Sept. 24, 2011, 9:59 p.m. EST by ronimacarroni
(1089)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement

I think there is an underlying problem that's bigger than businesses, the government or any other entity.
And that is the American philosophy.
You see, your computer, the house you live in, your furniture, your car, the road you drive in, etc...
Were all built by hard working people trying to make ends meet.
According to the American philosophy these people are below white collar workers because they did not choose the route of higher learning.
Well fair is fair. If you studied and got a job requiring a high degree of knowledge you do deserve more money. But that's where it should end.
Without blue collar workers, there would be no white collar workers. We live in a society and unless you're willing to do the jobs "lower" class workers do by yourself, you can't demand to have no taxes. If you think otherwise then cut some trees,build your house, build your furniture, manufacture your own goods and you will not have to worry about the economy at all.

11 Comments

I'll answer the last part first. Easy to say but just try cutting trees and building your own house and you'll find that you cannot. Unless homesteading in Alaska is still possible then you are controlled by local governments and the attendant building codes under which new construction of a house is out of reach for all but those with a couple of hundred thousand dollars and even there you must first have the property paid for unless you have even more money. This will get you a house that is paid for when you finish construction which is the way it was in pioneer days that so many of us yearn for. If we can, we build this house borrowing money. OK now it really gets expensive because the lender, even if you qualify, will require homeowner's insurance to protect their loan. Homeowner's insurance included fire insurance. If you chose an area in which the fire danger is high you may not be able to get fire insurance and thus no insurance and thus no loan and thus no home to live in. Sure a lender will buy it for you if you default in that responsibility but the cost of that insurance will be sky high. Higher, maybe, than the mortgage payment. So see how we are trapped by laws, regulations, codes, banks and insurance companies? These are the trouble with America, not the earnings of the worker.

OK but let me back up now and address your comment regarding earnings and taxes. First it is not we good citizens who fight against taxes. We know that in a complex society taxes are necessary because there are so many services to support. There is a segment of the republican party which yearns for no taxes all right but those are the dreams of the very foolish. There is a general call by these people for a great reduction in federal government. If this happens, if a vacuum is created in authority and or responsibility at the federal level business will move in to fill the void. Now in addition to services costing money the added burden of profit will be included. The moves in the privatization direction where government cedes to the private sector is good for business but not good for the workers who before may have been reasonably comfortable in their domestic security. The overall result after years and years of this chipping away at workers will change society to something akin to pre Magna Carta England. Lords and Serfs. Freemen a thing of the past. This may not be the conscious intent but it will be the result when money has too much power. American philosophy now, and ever since the industrial revolution especially post Civil War, is too move more and more power away from government and into the hands of private economic bases. The creation of the Fed long ago was a step in this direction for which we've been paying for ever since.

Now you say that without blue collars there cannot be any white. True. It is the goal of the money power to reduce America to the status of what we call a third world country. This is one in which the workers scramble for whatever work is doled out by money and at wages which are set by the employers. These will be as low as possible with no benefits at all. Meanwhile in the same country everything will cost more money. Education will be so expensive that virtually no blue collar folks will be included. Many in the countryside will survive but the old ways will return. Cities will become islands of rigid social order. Barter will return as a survival technique. Law enforcement by private militias owned by business will appear and slowly replace municipal police. Crime will be rampant and judgments will be both harsh and immediate. The haves will prosper and the have nots will sink lower and lower as they try to cope with the impossibility of their kids ever having a chance to fight their way upwards on the economic ladder. At this point we will not be able to say that someone is blue collar because he/she chose not to go to college. That option will be long gone and so will the freemen of the Magna Carta. Our lives will be shaped only by what is on the shelves at the company stores and remaining in debt will be the curse that holds us back. We on the progressive side see this as a possibility. Those on the ultra conservative side apparently do not or else they like the idea.

America has, since it's founding, fought against a return to the very social orders it sought to free itself in the late 18th century. The same as in France at the time and in other countries in other times. Freedom was the name of the dream. But on the backswing the word "freedom" is being used to provoke a return to that which we once wanted freedom from.

Sure there is too much government but the real problem is that there is too much banking and business power. Those guys are the ones who devastate, not governments. Can we recognize the true enemy to us all? It is not government. It is those who seek money above all else in life. It is the monetary usury which, from time to time, is so loudly decried.

The American philosophy was hijacked. Alan Greenspan had Ayn Rand by his side upon his induction as Fed Chair. Within 20 years his adherence to Rand's false and corrupt philosophy bore the bitter fruit of America's financial self-destruction. Greenspan repudiated his faith in this false prophet, testifying on the financial collapse before Congress: "I was wrong. Markets do NOT self-regulate."

Your protest further drives at the corrupt heart of this harridan's lies. You are proving what should be obvious to any thinking, feeling person: Selfishness is NOT a virtue.

"When plunder becomes a way of life for a group of men,
they create for themselves,
in the course of time,
a legal system that authorizes it,
and a moral code that glorifies it.”
– Political economist Frederic Bastiat, The Law [1850]

^ might've been surprised to learn it was a woman who provided the 'moral code' in question

"You can't demand to have no taxes?" No! We all should demand not to pay taxes. Stop feeding a corrupt government. Every governments, even those who start out good, end up corrupt.

For work done you get payed, and why should any government get a piece of something you spend time doing? What gives them the right to? If you want to give part of your salary to them out of free will, then you should so, nobody stopping you. Why then are other forced to, some at gunpoint and threat of jail?

If I want to build a house, I should be able to build a house, or hire someone doing it for me, and none of us should be taxed for doing that.

Because without the government poor people can't afford education, private roads, books and all the other things that ensure everyone has an opportunity to get a white collar job if they choose to.
They also can't afford healthcare but everyone seems to sweep that one under the rug.

So with taxation there are no poor people that can't afford education, and bridges don't collapse because they are not maintained, and help always comes after hurricane's, and everybody can afford a forced healthcare? Yeah really!

I disagree, these problems are due to the system, not the people in charge. All public spending is subordinate to the needs of big business, who winds up running the show and owning all the politicians. Just look at "Socialist" Europe in this crisis - their safety net is being dismantled as well.

This can only be remedied ultimately by democratic control of the means of production.

There is no incentive under capitalism for further investment to spur the kind of growth the system needs. If you believe in the free market you should believe that the rich can continue to hoard their money, "invest" in the wall street casino, and not hire anybody or invest in actual production - after all, it's not profitable.