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The Hobbit: Why are there no women in Tolkien’s world?

I did not read The Hobbit or the The Lord of the Rings trilogy as a child, and I have always felt a bit alienated from the fandom surrounding them. Now I think I know why: Tolkien seems to have wiped women off the face of Middle-earth. I suppose it’s understandable that a story in which the primary activity seems to be chopping off each other’s body parts for no particular reason might be a little heavy on male characters — although it’s not as though Tolkien had to hew to historical accuracy when he created his fantastical world. The problem is one of biological accuracy. Tolkien’s characters defy the basics of reproduction: dwarf fathers beget dwarf sons, hobbit uncles pass rings down to hobbit nephews. If there are any mothers or daughters, aunts or nieces, they make no appearances. Trolls and orcs especially seem to rely on asexual reproduction, breeding whole male populations, which of course come in handy when amassing an army to attack the dwarves and elves…

And then there is the argument that none of this should matter, that it’s not just fiction but fantasy after all. But Peter Jackson, the director of The Hobbit, has said, “To me, fantasy should be as real as possible. I don’t subscribe to the notion that because it’s fantastical it should be unrealistic. I think you have to have a sense of belief in the world that you’re going into, and the levels of detail are very important.” I should think that would include — especially in an intergenerational saga — something as important as the perpetuation of species, whether furry-footed or not.

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Splashman, I’ve voted for both Mccain and Romney (the first two elections I’v been eligible to vote in because of my age).

But some of the sexist remarks in this thread are sickening. It’s no wonder most young people and women see the GOP as being out-of-touch.

stuckinwisconsin on December 31, 2012 at 11:50 PM

They’re demonstrating absurdity by being absurd.

The glaring difference between what’s in this thread and the article that prompted it is the article is serious and the comments in this thread are so tongue-in-cheek that said tongues are nearly bursting through to the outside. Relax.

I appreciate the few commentators who have made contributions with regards to the lack of females in the film based on their knowledge of the plot . However, most of the comments in this thread involve degrading characterizations of women. How can you even begin to defend them? I am i die hard conservative, but this behavior is antithetical to true conservatism.

No one should tell Ruth Davis Konigsberg about Éowyn. I thought Tolkien’s understanding and development of her character was very full and complete. He blended her bitterness, bravery and angst, and with her love for and uncle and brother very realistically. His depiction of her and Faramir in the Houses of Healing was quite moving. Her declaration after realizing she loved Faramir would be anathema to any feminist.

Then the heart of Éowyn changed, or else at last she understood it. And suddenly her winter was passed, and the sun shone on her.

‘I stand in Minas Anor, the Tower of the Sun,’ she said; ‘and behold! the Shadow has departed! I will be a shieldmaiden no longer, nor vie with the great Riders, nor take joy only in the songs of slaying. I will be a healer, and love all things that grow and are not barren.’

I love postmodernist *-bag takes on Tolkien that treat him like some hack pulp writer with dreams of getting his stuff optioned by Hollywood.

Tolkien wasn’t just the father of a genre, he was its creator-god. That’s not to say his books were awesomely awesome – to the contrary, they’re brutally overwritten and I can’t blame people for thinking they’re tedious, but that’s just the point. He had nothing to touch against except magazine pulp and folklore. He was creating a fake history for his British linguistic experiment.

And yes, I’ll agree that the absolute void of even mention of female characters in The Hobbit is a bit creepy. I think there’s one scene with some elves where it’s implied that all of them need not necessarily be male, and that’s about it for female characters in that book. But the Time idiot is implying this is the case in all of the Middle Earth books, which is nonsense. Yes, women have diminished roles in Tolkien’s other books, as you would expect in a mimicry of real history and male-centered adventure epics that are the British heritage, but this falls more under “feminist critique” and not “perpetuation of the species” and it’s pedantic to pretend otherwise.

Splashman, I’ve voted for both Mccain and Romney (the first two elections I’v been eligible to vote in because of my age).

And this is supposed to convince me you’re not a liberal?

But some of the sexist remarks in this thread are sickening. It’s no wonder most young people and women see the GOP as being out-of-touch.

stuckinwisconsin on December 31, 2012 at 11:50 PM

Young people and [single] women. In other words, those looking for Daddy Government to take care of them by picking the pockets of those who can take care of themselves. Being out of touch with that demographic is a point of honor.

Sheesh. As a woman who has read LotR at least 3 times and The Hobbit only twice, and seen the movies too many to count, this kind of thinking drives me crazy. JRR Tolkien gave one of the greatest scenes in history to a female. She is a Mary figure and defeats the bloody king of the Nazgul. What more do you want? Why are some people never satisfied and think the world revolves around ‘their life experience’?

Now I need to get to bed so I can have energy to make my man a sammich tomorrow. He might need the energy to fight off some leftist troll or something.

Not only has she not read the books, but looks like she hasn’t even watched the movie. In this scene it certainly looks like the Uruk Hai is asexual, breeding whole male populations to attack the dwarves, elves and humans.

In the tale of Beren and Luthien, her father sets Beren on an impossible quest for a Silmaril as the price for wooing his daughter — and she assists her suitor in completing the quest. Being an elf, she could well have just turned away for a hundred years and looked back to see the mortal Beren as dust, but she took up the quest beside her man and together they stole a jewel from the crown of Sauron’s master.

But, gee, Tolkien didn’t include enough women in his writings.

Incidentally — another nerd cred thing — Galadriel predates the Silmarils…..in fact, their creation was partially inspired by her hair. Feanor, the elven creator of the jewels, requested her hair as part of their creation and was denied…..which made it all the more poignant when she granted Gimli her hair in LOTR.

I hope that the offended young lady, my fellow Midwesterner, does not despair. Haven’t read anything official, but I would guess that HotGas is about 3/4ths male. So it won’t be too far afield to suggest that the comments have a bit more than the recommended anti-doping ‘Tour de France’ limits of testosterone behind it.

The trick is knowing who you are, young woman. And know the era you live in! Lots of guys nowadays don’t think they’ll get married, so they learn to make a very fine sammich themselves, and will make one for you, too!

Scribbler on January 1, 2013 at 3:24 AM
pannw on January 1, 2013 at 9:41 AM

Don’t know what just happened. Stupid phone. Had a whole reply and it just vanished. I’ll just say I want you to know I wasn’t taking offense at you when I mentioned making a sammich. I do make him sammiches and take pride in them. I think it’s funny when you guys go after feminist man haters with that. Just so you know. Happy 2013.

Since my screen name is one of the aforementioned non-existent women in Tolkien’s universe I might as well weigh in here. Ms. “Haven’t Read the Books” is obviously unaware of the high value Tolkien placed on women. If you want to read the love story of he and his wife read the chapter “Of Beren and Luthien” in the Silmarillion. Then google a picture of he grave site. His headstone reads “Beren” and Edith’s reads “Luthien.”

And if you really want to geek-out read Silmarillion and discover that Manwe is more powerful when he is with Varda and she more powerful when with him.

The writer is a shrill attention-seeking harpy with an ax to grind. That comment is all the attention I care to give her.

Professor Tolkien was a gifted linguist and visionary. He inspired praise and criticism from those in the greater halls of learning, and he enchanted untold numbers of young readers who read his books along backwoods streams in the summer sun. I was lucky enough to be one of the latter. I can never thank him enough for the gift of the world he shared with us, and for my life-long love of reading which he engendered.

With that said, I’ll be fortunate enough to be spending a week or so in London later this year. A day trip up to Oxford to pay our quiet respects to the Professor and his wife at their final place of rest is in our plans.

Allah wants to know:
The Hobbit: Why are there no beta males in Tolkien’s world?
ShainS on December 31, 2012 at 11:42 PM

Grima Wormtongue was definitely a beta-male. He had to achieve his ends by guile. He wanted Eowyn but was afraid to pursue her outright because she would have kicked his ass or killed him. He kind of redeemed himself at the end by killing Saruman though.