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TMC Connect Snippets / Gems

Hey, I wanted to centralize a place for those that attended TMC connect to provide tidbits and snippets and jems they learned at TMC Connect this year. Anything new you heard from the keynotes, or anything exciting you learned, anything at all that was really valuable, new, interesting, etc.

I mentioned it elsewhere - I am friends with some students that were running their project electric car (Formula SAE) at ReFuel. One of them spent time talking with the large Tesla company group that were there - an engineer mentioned that several of the cars present were Model X test mules with AWD (they rode slightly higher apparently).

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Not strictly speaking TMC Connect, but the day after Refuel several of us ended up driving into downtown San Francisco to find some Thai food (it was excellent). Parked the car and then noticed a Model S parked directly across the street. Walked about 12 feet and spotted two more in a parking lot. Not like home at all!

Not strictly speaking TMC Connect, but the day after Refuel several of us ended up driving into downtown San Francisco to find some Thai food (it was excellent). Parked the car and then noticed a Model S parked directly across the street. Walked about 12 feet and spotted two more in a parking lot. Not like home at all!

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Welcome to the Bay Area! :wink::biggrin:

(Side note: Thanks for the ReFuel tire pressure tips. Kept the warm pressures right around stock all day and had good grip and minimal scrubbing. Even had some great lap times on the crappy all-seasons. Thanks!)

A few bits and pieces. Everything below was discussed quite openly, and I feel OK sharing it. I'm sure they'll slap my wrist if I say anything I'm not supposed to. I've held back on a couple of things.

Refuel:

I spent all afternoon hanging out with the Tesla Motors employees at the track.

Chris Porritt, Tesla Chief Engineer and designer of the Aston Martin One-77 was at the track all day (top bloke!), as were two Tesla teams

The teams were the prototype team, and the testing team. The latter was there 'for a bit of fun', rather than official testing.

Both teams were under instructions to have cars that at least looked like production cars because so many customers were there.

Mr Porritt kindly let me ride along with him when all the cars did a five lap blast (and I mean blast) at around 6:15. He's an endurance racer in his spare time, so it was quite a blast. Absolutely amazing road holding from the stock setup. I was amazed we didn't lose the back end.

Going through the corkscrew with Chris was 'interesting' to say the least.

The two white cars in the TT were both factory cars, which is why they were thrashing them quite so hard.

Other stuff learned at Refuel

The right-hand-drive car at the track is his daily driver and is a full RHD spec car, which they also use for testing. They had to trailer it back because it has a euro-spec charge port but they don't have a euro-to-US charge adapter that would work with the superchargers at the track

Chris has LOTs of plans for Model S (about which he would say nothing), but the focus right now is Model X.

Chris owns everything about the car except the powertrain, battery and electronics. But he does own the overall 'system'

After 17 years at Aston Martin, he is MIGHTILY impressed with Model S, which is a big part of the reason he moved over.

From a Tesla engineer - the reason the cars overheat on the track so quickly is that the cooling algorithm isn't set up for track use. Pack cooling doesn't kick in until the pack is already quite hot. P85+ have a different algorithm and so should perform longer before overheating. The algorithm can easily be changed but (speculation on my part) the cooling system isn't robust enough for that kind of use.

Tesla has a durability car that has done over 500,000 miles.

Tesla is testing driver aids pretty aggressively

Tesla runs a two-shift test team, 7 days a week

Tesla has just built its own crash test facility at the factory

European cars have different onboard chargers than US cars - I assume to handle the 22 kW vs 20 kW

The reason for the bezel change around the instrument cluster:

The original bezel was designed to mimic the aluminum on the door trim.

Owners have complained that the door trim aluminum is too soft and gets damaged by rings

The bezel would look better if it was thinner to match the air vents

Tesla needed to retool the line for right-hand-drive cars, so it made sense to introduce the new dash at the same time.

The Alcantara insert in the dash was introduced "because they could"

The drive train in the Rav 4 and the B-class is the same as the Model S. It is only the battery that is smaller/derated. 350 hp b-class anyone?

Tesla's strategy is that you get 100% of the battery on day one, and it degrades over time at a predictable rate; Mercedes strategy is that you get a lot less (40%?) of the battery on day one, but you NEVER see degradation over the life of the vehicle - because they give you more and more of the hidden part.

The 'high speed line' is set up to improve manufacturing time and reduce manufacturing cost. Still lots more improvements are possible

The existing line is not being decommissioned, but is being kept for the prototype and testing teams. At the moment special vehicles and parts are handled on the same line, which slows production down. As well as accelerating production, this new two-line approach will accelerate prototyping and testing.

Tesla is constantly looking at all the parts on the car to see what can be re-engineered to optimize production and cost

Not a surprise, but Elon is going over Model X with a fine toothed comb. Still iterating on things.

Drive train issues

The slow speed 'clunk' is from slop in the drive train, and especially from the gearbox. Won't generally cause mechanical problems, but Tesla is replacing drivetrains with this problem.

High pitched clicking may be from the axle splines and needs fixing immediately - might just need greasing.

well I have both clunk and clicking and they said it shouldn't cause problems...hmm. time for a 2 year soon
I am sad I didn't go over there to talk to them. would love a job like that (If I could commute from the Humboldt area, traffic in the Bay isn't worth it :tongue
Interesting that the P+ should hold out longer before limiting. any P+ drivers notice when you first got limiting? (assuming you drove it hard)
4-5 straight and then more after 5?

saw the Brammo TT rider ride a wheelie between turn 3 and 4. silent and Sick!

The Bay is interesting. IMO, there are far fewer Model S on the east side than in So Cal. People always say the Bay is crawling with Tesla's but they must be referring to the west side as I visit family often near Pleasanton and don't see even close to the density as I do down here.

From a Tesla engineer - the reason the cars overheat on the track so quickly is that the cooling algorithm isn't set up for track use. Pack cooling doesn't kick in until the pack is already quite hot. P85+ have a different algorithm and so should perform longer before overheating. The algorithm can easily be changed but (speculation on my part) the cooling system isn't robust enough for that kind of use.

Tesla has a durability car that has done over 500,000 miles.

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A) Interesting. So the P+ might employ a different cooling system than those on most of our cars? Otherwise, I don't see why Tesla would not create a performance mode on the UI that would increase the duty cycle of the coolant pumps.

B) That's impressive as long as no major components needed to be swapped (I.e. Drivetrain or battery pack). If they did fail then I'm not sure I see the point of that accomplishment.

For me one of the more interesting sessions was Tom Saxton's session on battery pack longevity and the idea that the key was to monitor full cycle discharges (I am sure I am not saying that quite right). If I was on the fence between a 60 and an 85, that would be a good reason to go with the 85.

For me one of the more interesting sessions was Tom Saxton's session on battery pack longevity and the idea that the key was to monitor full cycle discharges (I am sure I am not saying that quite right). If I was on the fence between a 60 and an 85, that would be a good reason to go with the 85.

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sounds pretty accurate.

I did think that was interesting, especially looking at the leaf charge cycles vs ms 60 vs ms 85 vs roadster. They all have different Whr/mi for similar driving and seem to lose range based on overall energy use. which really does make sense.

the leaf battery vs temp data was very interesting to compare to Tesla w/ active cooling. will be neat to see the new leaf data when they get the 'lizard':tongue: battery out
cut off a tail and it grows back? or maybe it hides under a rock to cool?

From a Tesla engineer - the reason the cars overheat on the track so quickly is that the cooling algorithm isn't set up for track use. Pack cooling doesn't kick in until the pack is already quite hot. P85+ have a different algorithm and so should perform longer before overheating. The algorithm can easily be changed but (speculation on my part) the cooling system isn't robust enough for that kind of use.

Tesla's strategy is that you get 100% of the battery on day one, and it degrades over time at a predictable rate; Mercedes strategy is that you get a lot less (40%?) of the battery on day one, but you NEVER see degradation over the life of the vehicle - because they give you more and more of the hidden part.

The slow speed 'clunk' is from slop in the drive train, and especially from the gearbox. Won't generally cause mechanical problems, but Tesla is replacing drivetrains with this problem

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These were very interesting. Thanks for posting. Seems like theoretically Tesla could introduce something like BMW's M/Sport mode that temporarily cranks up the cooling at the track (with a warning similar to the one provided by Range Mode indicating increased wear). Probably unlikely, but seems possible given the above.

I'm not surprised about the clunk. It sounds exactly like the noise the differentials on my past two AWD cars made under the same conditions. I took my S in and was told it was "normal," and I've kind of left it at that since. It hasn't gotten worse.

Here I think Tesla's strategy is clearly superior. I can see the argument that over time the reduction makes the degradation obvious and will affect resale value, but I would think that is completely outweighed by the increased range available NOW. I'm glad Tesla decided to deal with the fallout rather than force us all to carry around batteries for reserve capacity we won't be able to use until the car is old.

The Bay is interesting. IMO, there are far fewer Model S on the east side than in So Cal. People always say the Bay is crawling with Tesla's but they must be referring to the west side as I visit family often near Pleasanton and don't see even close to the density as I do down here.

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I'm relatively new to the area so I still may be out of touch, but Pleasanton is deep into what most people here all East Bay. I can't say I've ever heard "Bay Area" refer to East Bay, but as I said, I'm a transplant and they may. I could amend to "the peninsula" to be more clear.

Edit: Seems I was, in fact, incorrect. Thanks Wikipedia! And the peninsula (non-capitalized, so including SF) is indeed the correct term for the area I was referring to.

I'm relatively new to the area so I still may be out of touch, but Pleasanton is deep into what most people here all East Bay. I can't say I've ever heard "Bay Area" refer to East Bay, but as I said, I'm a transplant and they may. I could amend to "the peninsula" to be more clear..

Thanks for the info. Nick. I wish I had talked to them more. They were all nice but just kept telling me they were production cars. We were speculating that they had an all wheel drive (two motor) care.

They were all nice but just kept telling me they were production cars. We were speculating that they had an all wheel drive (two motor) care.

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I think they were pretty close to production. Probably had some replacement parts they were testing, but that was about it. One of the TM guys wanted to build one with enhanced cooling in the frunk and a vented hood (turns out they can pretty much do whatever they want to) but was asked not it.

Now I really regret not speaking further with the factory guys. I figured they'd rather be left alone in their gloriously-shaded tents (I got so sunburned). Did they let you poke around at all, or was it just a "We have v6.0 and you can't have it"? :wink:

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