I'm not actually sure where to put this, so I am placing it in the philosophy forum.

As stated before, I am old, 56 and I have read, studied and written philosophy forover 40 years. I have read the posts written around here lately with some interest, not for their direct content, but what they mean in general. The first point to understandis this, everything is connected. Problems that look totally separate and isolated, aren't,they have a connection and sometimes a deeper connection than we think. Everything is connected, I cannot emphasize this enough.

We have Majs complain about a social media "debate" "encounter" that was weird and we have gamer bring up a debate between Harris and Chomsky, that collapsed. I suggest that the two are connected and the connection is communication andhow communication is perceived.

I work with a bunch of young kids and they lack communication skills. But the issues runs deeper than just communication skills.It is about (in part) with an overall failure to expand one's vision beyond yourself. Kids nowdays have no historical sense. I look at something like, immigration and I see not just the immigration issuesof today, but I see an America that has immigration issues since the beginning. I am aware of the outright discrimination of the Irish for example from the 1820's to the 1880's. Signs in shops that said, NO IRISH ALLOWED IN. That was common for decades in stores nationwide. You include the Italians, Chinese, the Jews, and youhave decades of immigration woes and issues. It is not a new event and has been happeningin the U.S since the beginning, since 1619, when the first ship arrived carrying slaves fromAfrica.

We don't exist isolated in time and space from events that have occurred in the past.Watching the news and listening to politicians, you would not know that America evenhas a past and where events occurred in that past. 9/11 didn't occurred in a vacuum, but exists within a context that takes up time and space that last decades and continents.

so you have a generation that lacks communication skills and no understandingof where they exists in time and space in relation to prior generations. Almost like dogs, whose understanding of events is basically that moment of the eventand nothing before or after that event. A dog gets into the garbage and for the dog,the only thing is that event, but for humans, we see that the dog has gone into the garbage before, we see the event in time and space and we react to this event in time and space.or said another way, we see this event within a context that makes sense. I submit that we have a generation of kids that cannot communicate and cannot place eventsinto the proper context of time and space. Our understand of events is not different or betterthan a dogs. We see 9/11 as an isolated event and react to it as an single, isolated event whereas9/11 has context that spans decades and space.

As I have noted, these two aspects are related in some fashion, the lack of communication and the failure to have context. The United States Supreme Court has a bunch of partisans hacks (right wing) who decide law based on personal and paid for opinions that not only lack any legal justification, butare seriously bad for America, (citizens united for one).They write opinions that don't even pretendto offer any legal justifications for their absurd rulings anymore. The court exhibits another aspect that is pertinent to this, the court has made its personal opinion far more importantthan what is good for America. They don't offer any overarching principle that might be a justificationfor their actions. Citizens united for example, only says that limits on campaign contributions limits one's free speech. This ruling means that money is free speech and those with money havemore free speech that than those without money. There is no pretension that this ruling is nothing otherthan the legal justification for the wealthy to buy elections. The ruling voids the idea of one man, one vote,because politicians now just listen to the money, not the voters. Now place citizens united into context of American history and you see how truly bad a ruling this is. Run the ruling into the past and into the future and you see how bad this ruling sits with the past history of America and into the future, howthis ruling becomes America for the rich, by the rich. This ruling destroys democracy and so we havesomething else now. You see this only by placing the ruling into context of the past and future.

We lack an understanding of time, space and communication. I would like to say that America has a bright future but that would require people to understand contextof where we are and that context is lacking. An understanding that everything has context and is related. Citizens united didn't come out of isolation, it had context of time and space,where everything is connected. Everything is connected in time and space.

Kropotkin

"Those who sacrifice liberty for securitywind up with neither." "Ben Franklin"

The RNC has announced that's its changing the Republican emblem from an elephant to an condom because it more clearly reflects the party's politicalstance: a condom stands for inflation, halts production, destroys the next generation,protects a bunch of pricks, and gives one a sense of security while screwing others.

One of the Greek's questions was, what is reality? You have two ways (so far) to approachthis question. One way is the Platonic way, which is to say, there is an objective universe.This way is shorten by the saying, God is the measure of all things. There is an objective universethat exists regardless of whether it is recognized by humans or not. The other way is the subjective universe which says, man is the measure of all things. Humans give context to the universe. Let us take a rather famous event. Newton and his apple. He sees the apple fall, thus suggestingthe idea of gravity. Now gravity is a major, if not the major force in the universe and we can see itseffects all the time, thus suggesting it is objective, but not so fast sports fans. Let us rethink the apple idea.

We are sitting there and the apple falls. So this show us gravity exists? Uh, NO. It is simply an apple falling without context until we link up the idea of the apple fallingwith the other effects of gravity, the planets revolving around the sun and the like. In other words, without some context or some explanation of the apple falling, gravityis just a random event. The falling apple for a dog is just an apple falling. it has no other significance. It says nothing about gravity because the apple has no contextbeyond falling. It takes a human putting the falling apple into context that creates the ideaof gravity. Thus man is the measure of all things because it takes humans to create context for such things as apples falling and gravity.

so what is reality? It takes humans putting events into context that creates reality. I see a chair, a TV, a fan, my wife, a stove. There is no reality here until I put these thingsinto context. My wife is making breakfast, getting ready to leave for work while watching thosehideous early morning shows like "Good morning brain dead Americans".

Now this ability we have to create context in our environment. Around this point lies a whole lot of philosophy. Kant's and Plato for examplefor example laid waste to a lot of ink trying to explain how we create context bytheir idea of categories. We have internal categories which help us create context in theuniverse. So how do we have internal categories? The bottom line for both Kant and Platowas in so many words, GOD, he created the categories in our head that creates context. it is just as easy and without all the mess to imagine the categories being an evolutionary carryover. Babies have three instinctive fears, of snakes, of the dark and of falling. those three fears are a product of millions of years of evolution. the creation of categories neededto create context in the universe is also the product of millions of years of evolution. And whatof something like the soul? The soul is simply in some combination therein, of evolution (heredity) / chemicalprocesses and environment. The soul exists like some sort of event like the falling apple until it is placed into some sort of context.

So what is reality? we create reality by creating context of events in time and space.

Kropotkin

"Those who sacrifice liberty for securitywind up with neither." "Ben Franklin"

The RNC has announced that's its changing the Republican emblem from an elephant to an condom because it more clearly reflects the party's politicalstance: a condom stands for inflation, halts production, destroys the next generation,protects a bunch of pricks, and gives one a sense of security while screwing others.

Kant once wrote, Philosophy is about God, freedom and immortality. He wrote not understanding we are already immortal, we just haven't figured it out yet. It has been said, many times now, that we are star stuff. That we, our bodies was created from stars. Everything we see, everything in the universe was once star stuff, was once part of stars. Once our sun goes nova in a few billion years, we will return to the stars, to begin all over again. In every breath we take, in our very cells, exists the past. Our atoms, that forms the basis of our very existence, are used over and over and over again.Our atoms have been used and reused, for millions of years and will continue to be reused for million, even billions of years. As we, our atoms are part of the ever recycling of life. In every breath we take, exist atoms that was breath by Julius Caesar and Plato and JFK. in our cells, exist atoms that existed billions of years ago. We are reborn again and again and again,from the beginning of time till its end. We are immortal. My atoms have been reborn, literally,millions of time and will continue to be reborn, millions of times. I am immortal as are you as is every single atom that exists. This table, the TV, the couch, exists atoms that has been recycledover and over again. In that dirt, you walk on every day, at one point or perhaps at many points, you and I, existed as part of that dirt. Our atoms travel from one design to another to another overbillions of years. We are connected in the most fundamental way possible. At one point of time or another,our atoms existed side by side. You and me, and everything and will continue to act and interact with eachother atoms until we return to the star to be reborn into another star system and the whole thing beginsagain. We are connected to time and space and matter because we are time and space and matter.

Kropotkin

"Those who sacrifice liberty for securitywind up with neither." "Ben Franklin"

The RNC has announced that's its changing the Republican emblem from an elephant to an condom because it more clearly reflects the party's politicalstance: a condom stands for inflation, halts production, destroys the next generation,protects a bunch of pricks, and gives one a sense of security while screwing others.

Kropotkin, this had to be one of the most i sync pieces i ever read, i have to admit. I resonates so much, that it is uncanny. As if, we were perfectly in tune. This has been in a nutshell, the content of my mantra sinc i can remember, the very way you write, and it's substance.

It is also alignd with the esoteric teachings of the east.

KUDOS!

[size=50][/size]Allone's Obe issance

In answer to your prayersincere, the centre ofyour circle here,i stand ; and , withouttaking thought,-i know nothing. But i can

Full well your need-asyou be menThis: Re-Creation. With abow,Then, your obedient

Peter Kropotkin wrote:Kant once wrote, Philosophy is about God, freedom and immortality. He wrote not understanding we are already immortal, we just haven't figured it out yet. It has been said, many times now, that we are star stuff. That we, our bodies was created from stars. Everything we see, everything in the universe was once star stuff, was once part of stars. Once our sun goes nova in a few billion years, we will return to the stars, to begin all over again. In every breath we take, in our very cells, exists the past. Our atoms, that forms the basis of our very existence, are used over and over and over again.Our atoms have been used and reused, for millions of years and will continue to be reused for million, even billions of years. As we, our atoms are part of the ever recycling of life. In every breath we take, exist atoms that was breath by Julius Caesar and Plato and JFK. in our cells, exist atoms that existed billions of years ago. We are reborn again and again and again,from the beginning of time till its end. We are immortal. My atoms have been reborn, literally,millions of time and will continue to be reborn, millions of times. I am immortal as are you as is every single atom that exists. This table, the TV, the couch, exists atoms that has been recycledover and over again. In that dirt, you walk on every day, at one point or perhaps at many points, you and I, existed as part of that dirt. Our atoms travel from one design to another to another overbillions of years. We are connected in the most fundamental way possible. At one point of time or another,our atoms existed side by side. You and me, and everything and will continue to act and interact with eachother atoms until we return to the star to be reborn into another star system and the whole thing beginsagain. We are connected to time and space and matter because we are time and space and matter.

Kropotkin

This is not a new understanding of time and space.

What does this have to do with "God'? Or did you just feel like throwing it in there for no reason for "mystic points."

You talk of immortality so passively, as if nothing can be done with it. Who would actually want to be immortal, especially on this shithole?

Humans are a brand of ape, a chimp primate. Telling me their minds are composed of atoms, why you might as well say their minds are composed of bricks, or stones or rubber bands. It's not a revolutionary new theory, and it tells me nothing about consciousness. Just regurgitated 'we are startdust' upperclass hipster woman rubbish.

the Greeks were all over this idea that life was about happiness. They spent a whole lot of time going over how a man could be happy,with pleasure, with knowledge, with fame or success. The medieval philosophers thought it was the closer to god, the happier a person. We have the declaration of independence saying, Life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. But what if they are wrong! What if the purpose of life has nothing to do with happiness. This pursuit of happiness is another lie used to give us some hope that we will find happinessin life. think about it, think about happiness and sadness and all those other feelings we have.They (feelings) are transitory, very fleeting, they come and go like the wind, never staying too long. Someone says to you, I am sad because of ....... That event that caused the sadness is also transitory.I am sad because I lost my job. I am happy because I am in love. I am mad because the Giants lost lastnight. Transitory events which lead to transitory feelings. I am sad because I lost my job.... will I still be sad tomorrow? We don't know, we cannot hazard a guess as to whither we will be sad tomorrow or thenext day or the next day. We might still be jobless, but our feelings, changes, transitory. I have found in my life, when I was happy, I was doing something else, my happiness was a resultof doing something. My happiness was the byproduct of something else. I was happy because I was in love.I was in love because I was happy, doesn't work that way. Happiness, sadness, anger, are all byproductsof something else. I was sad because .... I am angry because ...... I am happy because......the because caused the sadness, anger, happiness, not the other way around. Our emotions didn't causethe event, the event caused our emotions. I have noticed I don't react the same way I used to react. I recall being very angry after 9/11 and wanting to nuke every Muslim country. The feeling passed quicklyand I got over it. I remember feeling sick and angry over the various shootings that occurred, Virginia Tech,and all the others. I heard about South Carolina this morning, it made slightly sad, but I know that will pass soon.I know, know more senseless deaths and shootings will happen soon because we allow it. I have putthe recent south Carolina shooting into context and have accepted with a sad understanding. It is a wisdomthat allows me to take such sad events and put them into an historical and political context knowing I willbe reading about another such event, tomorrow and next week and next year. All because we are pursing our "happiness" and allowing guns.

Life is not sacred, it is a biological event and biological events don't rely on emotions such as happiness or sadness or anger. biological events only exist to exist and recreate. Biology is not about sadness or other emotions, but about existing and then recreating itself. I don't need to feel sad or happy or angryto understand my purpose in life is not, IS NOT, happiness, but to recreate, to reproducefor another generation to exist. If we go extinct, follow the dinosaurs, we have failed in our biological purpose, which is to exist and to reproduce another generation. All our happinessand sadness and anger means nothing if we fail in our biological purpose.

Now recall yesterday lesson, how we exist and we shall always exist to the end of timebecause of atoms living on beyond our existence. How do we understand this with any failure of our biological purpose? This is an contradiction. How do we handle this contradiction?

Kropotkin

"Those who sacrifice liberty for securitywind up with neither." "Ben Franklin"

The RNC has announced that's its changing the Republican emblem from an elephant to an condom because it more clearly reflects the party's politicalstance: a condom stands for inflation, halts production, destroys the next generation,protects a bunch of pricks, and gives one a sense of security while screwing others.

Peter Kropotkin wrote:What if the purpose of life has nothing to do with happiness.

Then I suggest that you change your purpose ... or just stay miserable.

ALL conscious life is guided through its decisions via the Perception of Hope and Threat (thus joy vs misery). Without the pursuit of happiness, there is nothing but fear to guide you = terrorism => annihilation.

Clarify, Verify, Instill, and Reinforce the Perception of Hopes and Threats unto Anentropic HarmonyElseFrom THIS age of sleep, Homo-sapien shall never awake.

The Wise gather together to help one another in EVERY aspect of living.

You are always more insecure than you think, just not by what you think.The only absolute certainty is formed by the absolute lack of alternatives.It is not merely "do what works", but "to accomplish what purpose in what time frame at what cost".As long as the authority is secretive, the population will be subjugated.

Amid the lack of certainty, put faith in the wiser to believe.Devil's Motto: Make it look good, safe, innocent, and wise.. until it is too late to choose otherwise.

The Real God ≡ The reason/cause for the Universe being what it is = "The situation cannot be what it is and also remain as it is"..

Aristotle created (as far as we know) the whole unmoved mover argument in whichhe says anything which moves must have had a mover and all movement hasa mover which goes back into time until we reach the final act which is that which is the unmoved mover which is declared to be god by Aristotle. We can follow the same argument down until we reach the big bang and thenwe reach the point where Aristotle declares to be god, we can say, not god, but gravity is the unmoved mover. All it takes is one atom to connect to another atom,and we know by electromagnetic force that an atom can connect to another atom. Gravity moves the atoms and the electromagnetic force connects the atoms. Add in billions and billions of years and we have our reality today. Everything we see today, issimply atoms connecting to atoms. the various forms we see can be easily rearranged into other forms because of atoms connecting. think of atoms like Legos blocks. Atoms are the Lego blocks which simply connect and reconnect to make different forms. All forms,everything we see are simply reassembled atoms driven by (moved by) the laws or rules of the universe which is gravity, electromagnetic forces and the byproduct of these ruleswhich is entropy. We are no more then Lego blocks built to the rules of physics and biologyand our lego blocks are atoms, cells, DNA, among others. We can be assembled and reassembledbecause our lego blocks is the basic foundation of the universe, atoms. So in all this, where does happiness exists? Sadness, anger?

Kropotkin

"Those who sacrifice liberty for securitywind up with neither." "Ben Franklin"

The RNC has announced that's its changing the Republican emblem from an elephant to an condom because it more clearly reflects the party's politicalstance: a condom stands for inflation, halts production, destroys the next generation,protects a bunch of pricks, and gives one a sense of security while screwing others.

Peter Kropotkin wrote:Today's Idea is about a misguided idea, happiness.

the Greeks were all over this idea that life was about happiness. They spent a whole lot of time going over how a man could be happy,with pleasure, with knowledge, with fame or success. The medieval philosophers thought it was the closer to god, the happier a person. We have the declaration of independence saying, Life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. But what if they are wrong! What if the purpose of life has nothing to do with happiness. This pursuit of happiness is another lie used to give us some hope that we will find happinessin life. think about it, think about happiness and sadness and all those other feelings we have.They (feelings) are transitory, very fleeting, they come and go like the wind, never staying too long. Someone says to you, I am sad because of ....... That event that caused the sadness is also transitory.I am sad because I lost my job. I am happy because I am in love. I am mad because the Giants lost lastnight. Transitory events which lead to transitory feelings. I am sad because I lost my job.... will I still be sad tomorrow? We don't know, we cannot hazard a guess as to whither we will be sad tomorrow or thenext day or the next day. We might still be jobless, but our feelings, changes, transitory. I have found in my life, when I was happy, I was doing something else, my happiness was a resultof doing something. My happiness was the byproduct of something else. I was happy because I was in love.I was in love because I was happy, doesn't work that way. Happiness, sadness, anger, are all byproductsof something else. I was sad because .... I am angry because ...... I am happy because......the because caused the sadness, anger, happiness, not the other way around. Our emotions didn't causethe event, the event caused our emotions. I have noticed I don't react the same way I used to react. I recall being very angry after 9/11 and wanting to nuke every Muslim country. The feeling passed quicklyand I got over it. I remember feeling sick and angry over the various shootings that occurred, Virginia Tech,and all the others. I heard about South Carolina this morning, it made slightly sad, but I know that will pass soon.I know, know more senseless deaths and shootings will happen soon because we allow it. I have putthe recent south Carolina shooting into context and have accepted with a sad understanding. It is a wisdomthat allows me to take such sad events and put them into an historical and political context knowing I willbe reading about another such event, tomorrow and next week and next year. All because we are pursing our "happiness" and allowing guns.

Life is not sacred, it is a biological event and biological events don't rely on emotions such as happiness or sadness or anger. biological events only exist to exist and recreate. Biology is not about sadness or other emotions, but about existing and then recreating itself. I don't need to feel sad or happy or angryto understand my purpose in life is not, IS NOT, happiness, but to recreate, to reproducefor another generation to exist. If we go extinct, follow the dinosaurs, we have failed in our biological purpose, which is to exist and to reproduce another generation. All our happinessand sadness and anger means nothing if we fail in our biological purpose.

Now recall yesterday lesson, how we exist and we shall always exist to the end of timebecause of atoms living on beyond our existence. How do we understand this with any failure of our biological purpose? This is an contradiction. How do we handle this contradiction?

Kropotkin

Hmm, lets see, so you were one of those hyperreactionary guys who was easily manipulated by sensationalist news. That's reassuring. Anyway, enough with the adhoms.

You say "happiness doesnt make you feel in love"? I think that's false.You fall in love with someone because of your feelings. Its circular. Cause and effect, is Effect and cause.

You list the purpose of life as reproduction. So the purpose is to reproduce endlessly? Why? You might as well say the purpose is to color your house purple. I mean, there's no real value attached to either purpose.

It would make more sense, if the purpose would be, to make constructions, ie. say, the purpose is not merely to reproduce, but to make constructions, make the species last long enough to comprehend what needs to be comprehended about the universe, and evolve past the chimps that they currently are.

Peter Kropotkin wrote:Aristotle created (as far as we know) the whole unmoved mover argument in whichhe says anything which moves must have had a mover and all movement hasa mover which goes back into time until we reach the final act which is that which is the unmoved mover which is declared to be god by Aristotle.

You are thinking of Thomas Aquinas, but that argument was flawed anyway.

Peter Kropotkin wrote:We can follow the same argument down until we reach the big bang and thenwe reach the point where Aristotle declares to be god, we can say, not god, but gravity is the unmoved mover. All it takes is one atom to connect to another atom,and we know by electromagnetic force that an atom can connect to another atom. Gravity moves the atoms and the electromagnetic force connects the atoms. Add in billions and billions of years and we have our reality today. Everything we see today, issimply atoms connecting to atoms. the various forms we see can be easily rearranged into other forms because of atoms connecting. think of atoms like Legos blocks. Atoms are the Lego blocks which simply connect and reconnect to make different forms. All forms,everything we see are simply reassembled atoms driven by (moved by) the laws or rules of the universe which is gravity, electromagnetic forces and the byproduct of these ruleswhich is entropy. We are no more then Lego blocks built to the rules of physics and biologyand our lego blocks are atoms, cells, DNA, among others. We can be assembled and reassembledbecause our lego blocks is the basic foundation of the universe, atoms. So in all this, where does happiness exists? Sadness, anger?

You have things a bit scrambled in all of that, but most of it has nothing to do with the happiness issue.

Happiness is a particular state of mind and heart that let's your conscious know that things seem to be going okay from the more subconscious perspective. It is like the House letting the Senate know that they have no serious complaints. To say that happiness is not necessary is to say that the House should always complain and never show any sign of being satisfied. From that, the Senate would lose any perspective as to which kinds of things would make anything better, because everything would get the same response.

Happiness and the other states of mind and heart are just other complex parts of creation. No big deal. But when you leave them out, you literally lose your mind and heart.

Clarify, Verify, Instill, and Reinforce the Perception of Hopes and Threats unto Anentropic HarmonyElseFrom THIS age of sleep, Homo-sapien shall never awake.

The Wise gather together to help one another in EVERY aspect of living.

You are always more insecure than you think, just not by what you think.The only absolute certainty is formed by the absolute lack of alternatives.It is not merely "do what works", but "to accomplish what purpose in what time frame at what cost".As long as the authority is secretive, the population will be subjugated.

Amid the lack of certainty, put faith in the wiser to believe.Devil's Motto: Make it look good, safe, innocent, and wise.. until it is too late to choose otherwise.

The Real God ≡ The reason/cause for the Universe being what it is = "The situation cannot be what it is and also remain as it is"..

Aristotle talks about the unmoved mover and gives arguments for the unmoved mover,in both, Metaphysics and his book, Physics.

Kropotkin

"Those who sacrifice liberty for securitywind up with neither." "Ben Franklin"

The RNC has announced that's its changing the Republican emblem from an elephant to an condom because it more clearly reflects the party's politicalstance: a condom stands for inflation, halts production, destroys the next generation,protects a bunch of pricks, and gives one a sense of security while screwing others.

Aristotle talks about the unmoved mover and gives arguments for the unmoved mover,in both, Metaphysics and his book, Physics.

The unmoved mover is not gravity.

"Only the educated are free" - Epictetus"Music is a higher revelation than all wisdom and philosophy" -Beethoven"Everyday life is the way" -Wumen"Do not permit the events of your daily life to bind you, but never withdraw yourself from them" - Wumen

Peter Kropotkin wrote:Aristotle talks about the unmoved mover and gives arguments for the unmoved mover,in both, Metaphysics and his book, Physics.

Kropotkin

Okay, but I still don't see what any of this has to do with happiness.

Wiki wrote: Let this conclude what we have to say in support of our contention that there never was a time when there was not motion, and never will be a time when there will not be motion. (Physics VIII, 2)

Aristotle spoke of a First Principle as the "unmoved mover whose necessary existence underpins the ceaseless activity of the world of motion" (as do I). Aquinas spoke of a First Mover as the Unmoved Mover who began the universe. Aquinas is talking about regression through time. Aristotle is talking about regression through the hierarchy of logical reasoning.

Clarify, Verify, Instill, and Reinforce the Perception of Hopes and Threats unto Anentropic HarmonyElseFrom THIS age of sleep, Homo-sapien shall never awake.

The Wise gather together to help one another in EVERY aspect of living.

You are always more insecure than you think, just not by what you think.The only absolute certainty is formed by the absolute lack of alternatives.It is not merely "do what works", but "to accomplish what purpose in what time frame at what cost".As long as the authority is secretive, the population will be subjugated.

Amid the lack of certainty, put faith in the wiser to believe.Devil's Motto: Make it look good, safe, innocent, and wise.. until it is too late to choose otherwise.

The Real God ≡ The reason/cause for the Universe being what it is = "The situation cannot be what it is and also remain as it is"..

As we know, life in our neck of the woods, has been around for 3 billion years andanimals as we know it, for over 500 million years. Has evolution been a drive for perfection?No, it is about survival of the species. With each step of evolution, we have become slightlybetter in some aspect of survival. Life developed improving techniques for survival.Motion is one such aspect, the animal that can move slightly faster than another, canincrease its chances of survival and if species can move slightly faster, the species canincrease it changes of survival. Or if enough creatures/animals in one species can adapt quickly enough to changing environmental changes, it can better survive those changing conditions.But this is all evolution 101, but what of non physical adaption methods. I would classtwo aspects of this type, one is thinking, the brain and its ability to think out an solutionand the other is emotions. Recall we have over 500 million years of life improving its chancesof survival, (not perfection) So emotions must play an evolutionary role in our survival thathas allowed us to survive to this point. We can see the evolutionary point of such instinctsas fight or flight, but what about such emotions such as love, anger, hate, pity, sadness, amongothers. These emotions have clearly helped us adapt better to changing conditions or they (emotions)would not still be in humans. As a thought experiment, try to imagine dinosaurs with our emotions. A t-rex with sadness or anger or hate or pity. ............................................................

I cannot imagine such animals having a need for such emotions as pity. imagine a t-rex with pityand feeling pity while chasing down a deer like creature like bambi. That emotion might preventthe t-rex from catching and killing bambi and thus may lead to starvation. Emotions for such huntinganimals such as a t-rex or shark or lion might end their chances of survival. a hunting animal such as a shark cannot have such an emotion as pity, but humans, we are a hunting animal and yet do havepity and love and sadness. We must have those emotions because it did aid in or help our survival as a species. We see emotions in animals such as dogs and cats, we can see anger in dogs and cats, (don't feed a cat at its dinner time and you will find out what anger really is) It is quite possible it is BECAUSE of emotions, human beings are the so called top of the food chain. But we are also rational creatures. Aristotle called humans, a rational animal. so we can think andrationalize moments and events and people. this has helped our survival as a species. So the ongoingstruggle between the two, the rational and the emotional, which has gone on for thousands of years isjust a struggle between two sides of the same coin, a means of survival as a species.Without one or the other, human beings die out, millions of years ago. Perhaps that is why such hominids as the neanderthal and homo erectus did not survive. They did not have either enoughrational thought or enough emotions or perhaps both. We shall never know but evolution has madeit clear, we need both to survive.

Kropotkin

"Those who sacrifice liberty for securitywind up with neither." "Ben Franklin"

The RNC has announced that's its changing the Republican emblem from an elephant to an condom because it more clearly reflects the party's politicalstance: a condom stands for inflation, halts production, destroys the next generation,protects a bunch of pricks, and gives one a sense of security while screwing others.

Peter Kropotkin wrote:I'm not actually sure where to put this, so I am placing it in the philosophy forum.

As stated before, I am old, 56 and I have read, studied and written philosophy forover 40 years. I have read the posts written around here lately with some interest, not for their direct content, but what they mean in general. The first point to understandis this, everything is connected. Problems that look totally separate and isolated, aren't,they have a connection and sometimes a deeper connection than we think. Everything is connected, I cannot emphasize this enough.

We have Majs complain about a social media "debate" "encounter" that was weird and we have gamer bring up a debate between Harris and Chomsky, that collapsed. I suggest that the two are connected and the connection is communication andhow communication is perceived.

I work with a bunch of young kids and they lack communication skills. But the issues runs deeper than just communication skills.It is about (in part) with an overall failure to expand one's vision beyond yourself. Kids nowdays have no historical sense. I look at something like, immigration and I see not just the immigration issuesof today, but I see an America that has immigration issues since the beginning. I am aware of the outright discrimination of the Irish for example from the 1820's to the 1880's. Signs in shops that said, NO IRISH ALLOWED IN. That was common for decades in stores nationwide. You include the Italians, Chinese, the Jews, and youhave decades of immigration woes and issues. It is not a new event and has been happeningin the U.S since the beginning, since 1619, when the first ship arrived carrying slaves fromAfrica.

We don't exist isolated in time and space from events that have occurred in the past.Watching the news and listening to politicians, you would not know that America evenhas a past and where events occurred in that past. 9/11 didn't occurred in a vacuum, but exists within a context that takes up time and space that last decades and continents.

so you have a generation that lacks communication skills and no understandingof where they exists in time and space in relation to prior generations. Almost like dogs, whose understanding of events is basically that moment of the eventand nothing before or after that event. A dog gets into the garbage and for the dog,the only thing is that event, but for humans, we see that the dog has gone into the garbage before, we see the event in time and space and we react to this event in time and space.or said another way, we see this event within a context that makes sense. I submit that we have a generation of kids that cannot communicate and cannot place eventsinto the proper context of time and space. Our understand of events is not different or betterthan a dogs. We see 9/11 as an isolated event and react to it as an single, isolated event whereas9/11 has context that spans decades and space.

As I have noted, these two aspects are related in some fashion, the lack of communication and the failure to have context. The United States Supreme Court has a bunch of partisans hacks (right wing) who decide law based on personal and paid for opinions that not only lack any legal justification, butare seriously bad for America, (citizens united for one).They write opinions that don't even pretendto offer any legal justifications for their absurd rulings anymore. The court exhibits another aspect that is pertinent to this, the court has made its personal opinion far more importantthan what is good for America. They don't offer any overarching principle that might be a justificationfor their actions. Citizens united for example, only says that limits on campaign contributions limits one's free speech. This ruling means that money is free speech and those with money havemore free speech that than those without money. There is no pretension that this ruling is nothing otherthan the legal justification for the wealthy to buy elections. The ruling voids the idea of one man, one vote,because politicians now just listen to the money, not the voters. Now place citizens united into context of American history and you see how truly bad a ruling this is. Run the ruling into the past and into the future and you see how bad this ruling sits with the past history of America and into the future, howthis ruling becomes America for the rich, by the rich. This ruling destroys democracy and so we havesomething else now. You see this only by placing the ruling into context of the past and future.

We lack an understanding of time, space and communication. I would like to say that America has a bright future but that would require people to understand contextof where we are and that context is lacking. An understanding that everything has context and is related. Citizens united didn't come out of isolation, it had context of time and space,where everything is connected. Everything is connected in time and space.

Peter Kropotkin wrote:I'm not actually sure where to put this, so I am placing it in the philosophy forum.

As stated before, I am old, 56 and I have read, studied and written philosophy forover 40 years. I have read the posts written around here lately with some interest, not for their direct content, but what they mean in general. The first point to understandis this, everything is connected. Problems that look totally separate and isolated, aren't,they have a connection and sometimes a deeper connection than we think. Everything is connected, I cannot emphasize this enough.

We have Majs complain about a social media "debate" "encounter" that was weird and we have gamer bring up a debate between Harris and Chomsky, that collapsed. I suggest that the two are connected and the connection is communication andhow communication is perceived.

I work with a bunch of young kids and they lack communication skills. But the issues runs deeper than just communication skills.It is about (in part) with an overall failure to expand one's vision beyond yourself. Kids nowdays have no historical sense. I look at something like, immigration and I see not just the immigration issuesof today, but I see an America that has immigration issues since the beginning. I am aware of the outright discrimination of the Irish for example from the 1820's to the 1880's. Signs in shops that said, NO IRISH ALLOWED IN. That was common for decades in stores nationwide. You include the Italians, Chinese, the Jews, and youhave decades of immigration woes and issues. It is not a new event and has been happeningin the U.S since the beginning, since 1619, when the first ship arrived carrying slaves fromAfrica.

We don't exist isolated in time and space from events that have occurred in the past.Watching the news and listening to politicians, you would not know that America evenhas a past and where events occurred in that past. 9/11 didn't occurred in a vacuum, but exists within a context that takes up time and space that last decades and continents.

so you have a generation that lacks communication skills and no understandingof where they exists in time and space in relation to prior generations. Almost like dogs, whose understanding of events is basically that moment of the eventand nothing before or after that event. A dog gets into the garbage and for the dog,the only thing is that event, but for humans, we see that the dog has gone into the garbage before, we see the event in time and space and we react to this event in time and space.or said another way, we see this event within a context that makes sense. I submit that we have a generation of kids that cannot communicate and cannot place eventsinto the proper context of time and space. Our understand of events is not different or betterthan a dogs. We see 9/11 as an isolated event and react to it as an single, isolated event whereas9/11 has context that spans decades and space.

As I have noted, these two aspects are related in some fashion, the lack of communication and the failure to have context. The United States Supreme Court has a bunch of partisans hacks (right wing) who decide law based on personal and paid for opinions that not only lack any legal justification, butare seriously bad for America, (citizens united for one).They write opinions that don't even pretendto offer any legal justifications for their absurd rulings anymore. The court exhibits another aspect that is pertinent to this, the court has made its personal opinion far more importantthan what is good for America. They don't offer any overarching principle that might be a justificationfor their actions. Citizens united for example, only says that limits on campaign contributions limits one's free speech. This ruling means that money is free speech and those with money havemore free speech that than those without money. There is no pretension that this ruling is nothing otherthan the legal justification for the wealthy to buy elections. The ruling voids the idea of one man, one vote,because politicians now just listen to the money, not the voters. Now place citizens united into context of American history and you see how truly bad a ruling this is. Run the ruling into the past and into the future and you see how bad this ruling sits with the past history of America and into the future, howthis ruling becomes America for the rich, by the rich. This ruling destroys democracy and so we havesomething else now. You see this only by placing the ruling into context of the past and future.

We lack an understanding of time, space and communication. I would like to say that America has a bright future but that would require people to understand contextof where we are and that context is lacking. An understanding that everything has context and is related. Citizens united didn't come out of isolation, it had context of time and space,where everything is connected. Everything is connected in time and space.

OK, after a couple days of work ( a four letter word to be sure)I return.

We have many disciplines that humans use to understand human activity,(in no particular order) we have biology, economics, history, philosophy,psychology, sociology, politics, to name a few. If we were actually animals,primates, I don't think we would need such an array of tools to identify who weare and what we need. I don't believe I have seen a chimp with a book which it needs to identify the various activities of a chimp. What would a chimp do with a book on economics or politics? Or cats? I don't believe I have ever seen my cat have a need to look through books to find out what is necessary to a cat to learn.

Let us take one branch of our studies and look into it, economics. We have courses and plenty of books which explain human economic activity.The role of the money and the role of government in the creation of money. Let us look into this even further, humans have had 8 economic systemssince the beginning, pop quiz, name the 8. Anyway the most successful was the first, hunter/ gatherer. that system lasted for most of human historywhich dates back over a million years and lasted roughly to 10,000 years ago (give or take)Those who proclaim capitalism as the best system ever probably don't even understandthat humans have had 8 economic systems. We have had 8 systems which suggest we can havemore than 8. As technologies change and as resources change, we can very easily change intoone or more economic systems. Would the hominids that existed under the hunter/gatherersystem even begin to understand our current economic system? I seriously doubt it and I doubt current hominids would understand the economic system that will exist a couple of thousands of years from now. As we have had plenty of economic systems, we have had plenty of political systems. Would anyone care to guess the political system of America, one hundred years from now? I suggest it won't look anything like todays system. I would suggest that the political and economicsystem of one hundred years from now will look vastly different and that is because of actions we are taking today. This evolution of a country, economic and political and social, is occurring right now,right here. I have already stated publicly that a civil war is coming to America and the winnerof that civil war will change the course of America. The next civil war will simply be a replay of theoriginal civil war without the slaves. Expand your vision of the past, present and future. what is today may not be tomorrow.

Kropotkin

"Those who sacrifice liberty for securitywind up with neither." "Ben Franklin"

The RNC has announced that's its changing the Republican emblem from an elephant to an condom because it more clearly reflects the party's politicalstance: a condom stands for inflation, halts production, destroys the next generation,protects a bunch of pricks, and gives one a sense of security while screwing others.

One of the human aspects we study is something called ethics. What is ethics? It is the study of human behavior and we how we treateach other. The rules of human behavior can be reduced to such idea's such as the golden rule "treat someone as you would be treated by them".We have such idea's as the ten commandments, thou shall not.....kill for exampleand.... thou shall not steal. these rules of ethics have played a considerable role inthe study of ethics and the laws of each country.

Now we have a second idea which is the meaning/purpose of life is the pursuit of happiness.I believe these two idea in conflict have created a great many issues we face right now.

What if you pursuit of happiness clashes with the rules of behavior as given by "thoushall not steal". What if your happiness depends on your stealing someone else's wife?You have a conflict between your happiness and thou shall not steal or covet another man's wife. How do you resolve this conflict? What is more important, your happiness or the rules?

How would we handle this conflict? We could do one of two things, One: remove rules.even in an anarchist paradise, we need rules, we just need rules as defined by ourselves and not an impersonal and far away government. So we cannot remove rules from society,so we are left with removing the idea that life is the pursuit of happiness. What else is there, one may ask?

We can remove the idea that life is the pursuit of happiness by understanding whathumans are actually doing. We are part and parcel of life, we are one with the earthand all its creatures for we are another creature of earth, like lions and tigers and bears, oh my.That leaves us with evolutionary reasons for our existence and that is simply the perpetuation and continuation of the species. Like all the other species on earth, we simple exist to continue the human species. We abide by the evolutionary reason for species existence whichis the continuation of species. It is nothing more complicated than that. We remove any mystical and false belief in a metaphysical existence. We are of this earth, for this earth and by this earth. It doesn't need our happiness for the species to continue on and it doesn't require somefanciful metaphysical explanation for our existence. We are simply following evolution. if weaccept this idea, then the rules that we have must change to accommodate this idea that the reason for existence is simply the perpetuation and continuation of the species. If it is no longerabout our happiness, we no longer need to chase such silly notions such as our pursuit of goods,I.E the person who dies with the most toys, wins. this notion of gaining materials goods is no longertrue if we understand the purpose of life is not our happiness, but the continuation of the species isthe purpose of life, then the pursuit of materials goods is a damaging and harmful to the real purpose of life. Ethics as we know it, changes dramatically if we change the purpose of life.

Kropotkin

"Those who sacrifice liberty for securitywind up with neither." "Ben Franklin"

The RNC has announced that's its changing the Republican emblem from an elephant to an condom because it more clearly reflects the party's politicalstance: a condom stands for inflation, halts production, destroys the next generation,protects a bunch of pricks, and gives one a sense of security while screwing others.

Everything is connected in space, and across time, every moment is but another moment that is transitory, our atoms are near eternal...

At some point you realize that none of this gets you anywhere, because all you're doing is trying to excuse yourself for having values and for having the need to assert and act on them singularly, "out of (some) context". You want go be forgiven for being alive-- sorry, no such luck, that "forgiveness" does not exist (except were it is already lacking).

Realize that much of what passes for philosophy or politics or war is simply a desire to be forgiven a "sin" of existing at all.

Filling your head with many perspectives isn't philosophy. Philosophy is what you do with the perspectives you've got. And this "moral" space exists in an entirely "amoral" context, just like the "unmoved mover". There is a deep disconnect which cannot be reconciled to those which it divorces from each other and structurally keeps apart; out of that situation arises everything.

If you put down all your conceptual tools and baggage and clutter, for a few moments, and take a quiet free breath, you may begin to see what I'm talking about.

Thinking (as it is being practiced here) is merely an excuse to go to war, and even peace or pacifism or humanism or whatever such view is only a war against war, which inevitably becomes among the most vicious.

"He who would not sacrifice his own soul to save the whole world, is, as it seems to me, illogical in all his inferences, collectively." --Peirce

I don't believe in sin and shall be commenting on that, at some point.

Kropotkin

"Those who sacrifice liberty for securitywind up with neither." "Ben Franklin"

The RNC has announced that's its changing the Republican emblem from an elephant to an condom because it more clearly reflects the party's politicalstance: a condom stands for inflation, halts production, destroys the next generation,protects a bunch of pricks, and gives one a sense of security while screwing others.

I have multiple times requested some sort of evidence that god exists.I have never received anything that would suggest that god exists. I have asked where does god residesand haven't gotten anything even remotely close to a coherent answer. He resides in our hearts andhe resides everywhere, are two common answers that mean nothing. but a more important questionis this, why does this feeling we have, of some connection to something beyond us exists?I would suggest we have mistaken the fact that we are star stuff and connected with the universebecause we are made of the same stuff as the universe and mistaken that connection with somesort of god. We are connected to the universe but it doesn't need a god for some explanation, it issimply we are star stuff and that is our connection with the universe, because everything is made of star stuff and we are connected to everything. We mistake this connection to the universe with somesort of silly idea of god. We don't need an explanation of god to understand our connection to the universe.In fact, I would suggest that this tie to god has damaged us in a multitude of ways. Damaged us in wayswe don't even understand. We have come to believe that we are separate from the universe but we are not because we are the exact same thing as the universe. We get confused by the different formsbut those forms are made of the exact same things, atoms. The atoms connect like Lego blocks andcreate different forms like cars, tree's, bikes, humans, cats, stars and stoves. everything looks differentbut is actually created by the same stuff that created us. Lego's is the best way to describe the universe.Atoms are the Legos of the universe and everything is made of atoms. What we have Interpreted as a spiritualmeaning to the universe is simply our physical, scientific connection to all the other matter in the universe.Now some misguided soul will claim this is god incarnate, this connection, but they are wrong. There is no god and no proof of god. The universe and the connections of the universe has no need for god. No need to muddle upthe water with some false claim that there is a god and heaven and hell and angels and demons and guilt and sin. None of that exists and there is simply no proof of any of it. We have simple mistaken one thing for another. We are material in a material universe. there is no need to posit anything else.

Kropotkin

"Those who sacrifice liberty for securitywind up with neither." "Ben Franklin"

The RNC has announced that's its changing the Republican emblem from an elephant to an condom because it more clearly reflects the party's politicalstance: a condom stands for inflation, halts production, destroys the next generation,protects a bunch of pricks, and gives one a sense of security while screwing others.