seloverb wrote:But......the government can't lie as well as the private sector! Just who is being dishonest, and who are the suckers who believe them? Think this through folks. If you believe the negative propaganda about ObamaCare, and trust the insurance companies, it will cost you dearly!

In a just world, people responsible for sending out such letters should do jail time.

Just another miracle of the "free market", I suppose.

In a Just world, people are allowed to receive the benefits of their work without having it taken from them and given to another who did not work for it.

And those doing the unjust taking if it is not just should do jail time (or worse).

Sorry, I think you are thinking of Ayn Rand's world. We live in a society, whether you like it or not. If you want something like what you describe, move to Somalia.

There are things "taken" from me and "given" to those that use it for ends that I don't particularly like, either, but I came to grips with this shortly after entering the workforce. Part of the growing-up process, you might say. Much like learning to share in as a toddler.

Some others, on the other hand, seem to be suffering from arrested development in this regard, and have never gotten past the "MINE! ALL MINE!" stage.

From the article: [Dan Pfeiffer, a top White House adviser] acknowledged that enrollment numbers to be released later this month “are not going to be what we want them to be.”

“The website hasn't worked the way we want it to work. But we take responsibility for that, take responsibility for the errors, take responsibility for fixing it,” he said. “And if we get the website working as expected we do by the end of this month, then I think we're going to be in a good place.”

"If we get the website working..." "If"

Assuming they define "good place" as operating with the efficiency of the Post Office, the compassion of the Internal Revenue Service, the speed of the Social Security Administration, and producing the results of the Bureau of Indian Affairs.

If you want to see what it looks like when the government runs everything, visit an Indian Reservation.

word-virus wrote:Social security had some of the same problems when it was rolled out like for example it was underfunded so it wold not work properly by none other than the republicans. So yes the roll out was a wreck but it will work its kinks out. Obama has done the right thing its the private sector that failed him. He was duped into thinking that the private sector could do anything honestly.

Are you attempting to point to Social Security as an example of a success? Seriously? Typical liberal hack, fails to understand the true financial health of the program. Before you attempt to site this program as an example of a successful Government program, perhaps you should delve into the future cash flow model of the program. Careful, it might shock your rose colored glasses.

The trust fund is exhausted in 50 years or so. We have time to figure it out. In the meantime, we've had real benefits, bringing dignity to the lives of the elderly for decades. For the median senior American, 66% of their income is from SS. But your alternative is what... repeal Medicare & SS and let them die on the streets?

The trust fund is exhausted, period! In fact the "trust fund" is in the red by about 3 trillion dollars. The IOU's held in the "trust fund" is nothing more that another debt owed to ourselves and the interest on the debt is paid for out of the general fund (taxpayer money) and the principal the 3 trillion dollars must also be paid back by the taxpaying public.

It's not exhausted at the moment but it's certainly heading there soon. The $3 trillion is suppose to be the surplus that's to be IOU'd back into the fund after Administrations started siphoning that surplus off and over to the general fund. It has as much hope of getting paid back as we do of paying off the (currently $17T and soaring) national debt. That's because it's one in the same now. When LBJ removed that barrier between the SS fund and the general fund, he make those funds fungible. As long as the general fund remains perpetually upside down, there's no realistic chance of the general fund paying back those IOU's it stole from SS.

The SS trust fund is invested in US Treasury securities, among the safest investments on the planet. And probably the only place you can invest $3T without causing major market disruptions. I know you guys like to call it "IOUs" instead to make it sound frivolous and unsafe, but that's more than a bit disingenuous.

The Treasury issues T-Bills when it borrows money from any source. The T-Bills sitting in the Social Security "trust fund" are no different from the T-Bills sold to China. They are part of the $17 Trillion we collectively owe. In order for the Social Security Administration to pay a current recipient it must take funds from current tax income or it must cash in T-Bills currently on hand.

The so-called trust fund is nothing more that an IOU from Congress.

More correctly it is a national ponzi scheme that would land people in jail if they tried something comparable.

Obama understands his constituents perfectly. They don't care what he does to the Constitution, the economy or his "enemies," as long as he provides them with gay marriage, legalized weed and a recharged EBT card the first of every month.

seloverb wrote:But......the government can't lie as well as the private sector! Just who is being dishonest, and who are the suckers who believe them? Think this through folks. If you believe the negative propaganda about ObamaCare, and trust the insurance companies, it will cost you dearly!

In a just world, people responsible for sending out such letters should do jail time.

Just another miracle of the "free market", I suppose.

In a Just world, people are allowed to receive the benefits of their work without having it taken from them and given to another who did not work for it.

And those doing the unjust taking if it is not just should do jail time (or worse).

Sorry, I think you are thinking of Ayn Rand's world. We live in a society, whether you like it or not. If you want something like what you describe, move to Somalia.

There are things "taken" from me and "given" to those that use it for ends that I don't particularly like, either, but I came to grips with this shortly after entering the workforce. Part of the growing-up process, you might say. Much like learning to share in as a toddler.

Some others, on the other hand, seem to be suffering from arrested development in this regard, and have never gotten past the "MINE! ALL MINE!" stage.

CD, although it can be frustrating many times, the dynamic of these threads has always interested me. In the case of this one, the grownups seem to have largely gone home, leaving the field mostly to the right-wing shin kickers. They will stay endlessly.

And I don't claim total innocence. I'm engaged in an exchange on another thread with a gun lover who changed the subject to his own favorite and then accused me of being the single-issue person in the debate.

It's annoying to let the 'wingers always get the last word in these forums but, after all, real life does have its own superior demands.

John0123 wrote:CD, although it can be frustrating many times, the dynamic of these threads has always interested me. In the case of this one, the grownups seem to have largely gone home, leaving the field mostly to the right-wing shin kickers. They will stay endlessly.

And I don't claim total innocence. I'm engaged in an exchange on another thread with a gun lover who changed the subject to his own favorite and then accused me of being the single-issue person in the debate.

It's annoying to let the 'wingers always get the last word in these forums but, after all, real life does have its own superior demands.

Oh my God. You just flat out lie, don't you John. Either that or you're just so addle-minded that you completely twist around reality and see it differently from how it really is.

John0123 wrote:CD, although it can be frustrating many times, the dynamic of these threads has always interested me. In the case of this one, the grownups seem to have largely gone home, leaving the field mostly to the right-wing shin kickers. They will stay endlessly.

And I don't claim total innocence. I'm engaged in an exchange on another thread with a gun lover who changed the subject to his own favorite and then accused me of being the single-issue person in the debate.

It's annoying to let the 'wingers always get the last word in these forums but, after all, real life does have its own superior demands.

Oh my God. You just flat out lie, don't you John. Either that or you're just so addle-minded that you completely twist around reality and see it differently from how it really is.

seloverb wrote:But......the government can't lie as well as the private sector! Just who is being dishonest, and who are the suckers who believe them? Think this through folks. If you believe the negative propaganda about ObamaCare, and trust the insurance companies, it will cost you dearly!

In a just world, people responsible for sending out such letters should do jail time.

Just another miracle of the "free market", I suppose.

In a Just world, people are allowed to receive the benefits of their work without having it taken from them and given to another who did not work for it.

And those doing the unjust taking if it is not just should do jail time (or worse).

Sorry, I think you are thinking of Ayn Rand's world. We live in a society, whether you like it or not. If you want something like what you describe, move to Somalia.

There are things "taken" from me and "given" to those that use it for ends that I don't particularly like, either, but I came to grips with this shortly after entering the workforce. Part of the growing-up process, you might say. Much like learning to share in as a toddler.

Some others, on the other hand, seem to be suffering from arrested development in this regard, and have never gotten past the "MINE! ALL MINE!" stage.

CD, although it can be frustrating many times, the dynamic of these threads has always interested me. In the case of this one, the grownups seem to have largely gone home, leaving the field mostly to the right-wing shin kickers. They will stay endlessly.

And I don't claim total innocence. I'm engaged in an exchange on another thread with a gun lover who changed the subject to his own favorite and then accused me of being the single-issue person in the debate.

It's annoying to let the 'wingers always get the last word in these forums but, after all, real life does have its own superior demands.

Said the guy with over 7700 posts.

"People usually get what they want, and if they are disappointed in what they end up with, it is usually because they were not careful about what they asked for."

Romney.... Didn't he lose the last election when people decided they didn't want to be screwed over by the insurance companies and wanted universal health care? AHC is law and will be enacted so all this nonsense generated by Fox and insurance companies will be moot. I hope in the process the insurance industry alienates more voters as the electorate understands that: 1. People were sold junk policies. 2. The insurance companies cancelled these junk policies because they didn't meet minimal standards of coverage.3. Health care costs have gone down4. More citizens are insured so the insured and taxpayers don't have to pick up the extraordinary tabs for regular health care disbursed through predatory emergency room charges. THEN we can move on to real issues like:1. The government negotiating pharmaceutical prices2. Single payer healthcare that takes the profit center out of the middle of the patient/doctor relationship.