pLaurent wrote:8) New Rule: Just because your tattoo has Chinese characters in it doesn't make you spiritual. It's right above the crack of your fanny. And ittranslates to "beef with broccoli." The last time you did anythingspiritual, you were praying to God you weren't pregnant. You're not spiritual. You're just high.

As a tattoo addict . . . I LOVE IT!!!

"All changes, even the most longed for, have their melancholy; for what we leave behind us is a part of ourselves; we must die to one life before we can enter another." -Anatole France

i wouldnt call Vili a "victim" but i also see your point. and in my opinion no its not ok. i was just saying that at least it wasnt one of those jeeze im sorry i made a mistake kinda thing, they actually seem to love eachother.

Is what your cousin did wrong? Yes. Are the kids going to be screwed up for life because of it? No.

What I'm about to write will likely offend some people, but I encourage everyone to really think about this.

If the gender roles were reversed (male teacher and female students) I believe that the teacher would in fact be more wrong.

The degree to which behavior is deemed unnacceptable is determined by the damage (or percieved damage) it causes to society. A male teacher engaging in sexual behavior with female students causes more damage than a female teacher doing the same with male students. Why? The female students would be more likely to suffer long-term psychological damage. There is a real difference in social power and sex roles between men and women that complicates these issues beyond the age factor.

Again, your cousin was wrong. But if she were a man, she would be more so. The reason? Male teachers have proportionally more social power over female students than female teachers have over male students.

This issue is much more complicated than it first appears.

Demo Dick

"My first priority will be to reinstate the assault weapons ban PERMANENTLY as soon as I take office...I intend to work with Congress on a national no carry law, 1 gun a month purchase limits, and bans on all semi-automatic guns."-Barack Obama"When in doubt, whip it out."-Nuge

how can you say the kids wont be affected by what she did? i think every child that is molested whether by a woman or a man has some sort of lasting effect. whether the child realizes it or not. what she did is wrong, and she should get the max punishment whether she is a female or a male.

As a parole officer in charge of 75 sex offenders, I feel all offenders who commit the same crime should be sentenced similarly. I only have one female on parole - I realize that men are more likely to be sex offenders, however, not 75x more likely. I have extremely strong opinions on sex offenders and victims, which I'm not going to get into (I could write books!). However, I will say that 75% of these guys don't get the sentence they deserve.

I didn't say they won't be affected. I said they won't be screwed up for life. Or more properly, they are less likely to be screwed up for life than female students in the same position with a male teacher.

My point is that the age is not the only factor to consider. I'm not talking about the legal aspect, but the sociological one. Let me put it bluntly. If I was a 15 year old male who had sex with his hot teacher, I would be a hero to my peers. Does that absolve the teacher of responsibility? No. But age is not the only factor to consider. The thing that everyone overlooks is social power. Males have more social power than women (NOT saying that this is right, just that it is). Therefore male students are on a more even plane in terms of social power with female teachers than female students are with male teachers.

I am not saying that what she did is right. I am trying to get people to think about their social construction of gender and sex roles. If Miakoda's cousin was a man and he had sex with multiple female students, it would be more of an abuse of power. People would be lining up to string the guy up in public.

Demo Dick

"My first priority will be to reinstate the assault weapons ban PERMANENTLY as soon as I take office...I intend to work with Congress on a national no carry law, 1 gun a month purchase limits, and bans on all semi-automatic guns."-Barack Obama"When in doubt, whip it out."-Nuge

Romanwild wrote:I'm familiar with cases just like that one and my opinion is that marriage doesn't change anything.

She's still a pedophile. She had her victims babies then married him. That certainly doesn't change what she did with an 11 year old.

i NEVER said what she did was right! My personal opinions about them both are not very good. Yes what she did is way way wrong and i would kill her if vili was my son!!! on the other hand having a friend who was friends with him i dont feel any pity for him in the least!!!!! It was the typical male steriotype he was bragging about it and everything the only thing that was missing was the damn high 5's! (although im sure there were those too)

The female students would be more likely to suffer long-term psychological damage.

Is that your opinion or is there a study or something to back that up?

It's not a issue of social power it's an issue of TRUST.

These are adults put into a very high position of trust with peoples children. They are supposed to protect them not smurf them. The difference in social opinion is secondary to the violation of trust. Why aren't people bothered by this?

New Rule: I'm not the cashier! By the time I look up from sliding my card, entering my PIN number, pressing "Enter," verifying the amount, deciding, no, I don't want cash back, and pressing "Enter" again, the kid who is supposed to be ringing me up is standing there eating my Almond Joy.

For the record, Lauren spent a year in a women's correctional institute (jail) & got I don't know how many years staying on parole. I think her actual jail sentence was longer, but she was out after a year for good behavior. I don't know.

The female students would be more likely to suffer long-term psychological damage.

Is that your opinion or is there a study or something to back that up?

It's not a issue of social power it's an issue of TRUST.

These are adults put into a very high position of trust with peoples children. They are supposed to protect them not smurf them. The difference in social opinion is secondary to the violation of trust. Why aren't people bothered by this?

The pubescent mind is still undeveloped. Especially the emotional part. Like Maryellen said. The damage might not be obvious but it's still there.

Not to mention your explanation puts women as the "weaker sex".

It's just my opinion. I know of no studies, but I could dig one or two up if I felt inclined. Likewise I'm sure there are other studies showing the opposite. That's one thing I hate about sociology; you can argue opposite points using the same data set and field research and every study can be refuted by another.

I never wrote that it is an issue of social power alone. It clearly is a complex issue. Trust certainly an important element.

From a legal perspective, what she did is wrong. From a moral one, what she did was wrong. From the perspective of social harm, I'm not so sure. It would be interesting to interview the students in ten years or so
to see if they feel that they suffered any trauma. I'd bet that they don't. Then again, men are generally so immature with regards to sexual matters that they would probably still be high-fiving each other and saying "Remember Mrs. So-and-So...she was HOT!!"

Women as the weaker sex? In many ways they are. But in others they are stronger than men. Depends on what we're talking about.

Demo Dick

"My first priority will be to reinstate the assault weapons ban PERMANENTLY as soon as I take office...I intend to work with Congress on a national no carry law, 1 gun a month purchase limits, and bans on all semi-automatic guns."-Barack Obama"When in doubt, whip it out."-Nuge