Robert, they're part of that "young" crowd, who are not really interested in dyno #'s that much. For the most part, Mbworld guys are more interested in 1/4 mile and 60-130 runs, or as you would call it "kiddie games" down the hall.

The MHP C63 (DadC63) is flat out fast and he is a heck of nice guy, zero smack talk. Although they've hit some incredible #'s on the dyno, they do most of their talking with the car, on the strip and with the Vbox, I like that.

The MHP C63 (DadC63) is flat out fast and he is a heck of nice guy, zero smack talk. Although they've hit some incredible #'s on the dyno, they do most of their talking with the car, on the strip and with the Vbox, I like that.

+1

Whats the point of going F/I if you cant measure your performance with something that everyone has the accessibility to do.

You mean like a dyno? There's definitely more dyno shops around the country than drag strips -- probably at least 25:1 ratio, and virtually nobody has a vBox.

I thought the point of going F/I was to drive the car, not brag about how much power you've got.

PencilGeek, it obvious, we will agree to disagree. Dynos just show power levels. Running the 1/4 mile, 60-130, illegal street races, etc, show your cars capabilities with another. That is what Drew and I believe are the best measures of F/I, thats it. Its like MMA (Been doing this for a few years) or martial arts, you may look cool doing the moves, but if you can beat anyone with it, whats the point. Peace bro.

The MHP C63 (DadC63) is flat out fast and he is a heck of nice guy, zero smack talk. Although they've hit some incredible #'s on the dyno, they do most of their talking with the car, on the strip and with the Vbox, I like that.

Drew you are the poster boy for "run your car not your mouth". Hope the holidays did you well sir.

PencilGeek, it obvious, we will agree to disagree. Dynos just show power levels. Running the 1/4 mile, 60-130, illegal street races, etc, show your cars capabilities with another. That is what Drew and I believe are the best measures of F/I, thats it. Its like MMA (Been doing this for a few years) or martial arts, you may look cool doing the moves, but if you can beat anyone with it, whats the point. Peace bro.

+1

Dead on post. Quarter Mile times however can be misleading. They involve a lot more skill/variables then people would like to give credit to. Case in point Drew's M3 put down way better times then the EVO 3 C63(or any C63 I believe) at the last track event. He clearly isn't a novice here. However, in "Mexico" his car got walked on all their runs by the EVO 3 C63.

Dead on post. Quarter Mile times however can be misleading. They involve a lot more skill/variables then people would like to give credit to. Case in point Drew's M3 put down way better times then the EVO 3 C63(or any C63 I believe) at the last track event. He clearly isn't a novice here. However, in "Mexico" his car got walked on all their runs by the EVO 3 C63.

I don't think they are misleading when you look at all the information available to you and yes if all is running well on your car of course. 60' times, traps, etc. from these you can easily extrapolate what you need to know even if the launch was bad.

As you know traps are the main factor in determining whether or not your car is putting the power down, because ET's are launch dependent and some frankly can't launch, mainly because street tires do not provide enough traction, even on stock cars, but the trap will tell you what you need to know. Of course conditions play a roll, especially for NA cars, one can argue about all the variables forever, but IMHO 1/4 mile times/traps tell us a great deal.

The EVO C63 is an awesome machine and was no doubt faster from a roll, mainly because it has 100 more whp than me, however at lower speeds we were closer, up top is where he starts to pull good, based on that I knew we'd have a good run in the 1/4 mile and we did. When we ran at the track, I edged him out because of a better launch, our traps were 115.x vs. 117.x at that time, so cleary he is capable of better times, and of course faster.

I don't think they are misleading when you look at all the information available to you and yes if all is running well on your car of course. 60' times, traps, etc. from these you can easily extrapolate what you need to know even if the launch was bad.

As you know traps are the main factor in determining whether or not your car is putting the power down, because ET's are launch dependent and some frankly can't launch, mainly because street tires do not provide enough traction, even on stock cars, but the trap will tell you what you need to know. Of course conditions play a roll, especially for NA cars, one can argue about all the variables forever, but IMHO 1/4 mile times/traps tell us a great deal.

The EVO C63 is an awesome machine and was no doubt faster from a roll, mainly because it has 100 more whp than me, however at lower speeds we were closer, up top is where he starts to pull good, based on that I knew we'd have a good run in the 1/4 mile and we did. When we ran at the track, I edged him out because of a better launch, our traps were 115.x vs. 117.x at that time, so cleary he is capable of better times, and of course faster.

You make some good and I agree with you also on most of the issues with all variables being equal.

You mean like a dyno? There's definitely more dyno shops around the country than drag strips -- probably at least 25:1 ratio, and virtually nobody has a vBox.

I thought the point of going F/I was to drive the car, not brag about how much power you've got.

The big problem with dynos is there is very little consistency. There are so many variables that one needs to comprehend before you have an idea what the actual power is. Brand of dyno, dyno operator, outside temp, moisture in the air, temp of vehicle, etc. I have heard stories, of people running on the same type machine in two different shop same day, same weather and getting results that are 35rwhp in difference.
Running at the track you look at 60ft times(track prep) and density altitude(power) and you will have a basic knowledge of the performance of the vehicle. Its real easy to gauge vs the different competition of the event as well.

For me going to the track is about the competition and increasing my skill as a driver.

First of all, the problems you list are exactly why I created the Dyno Database. It allows you to compare apples-to-apples. Secondly, the problems you list are exactly why SAE-1349 correction standard was created. Go ahead, look over my DynoDB, there's over 120 entries in it. Find those anomalies you're talking about.

I like the DataBase you have put together. Lots of great information there. I also like the fact that you have separated the different Dynos that measure the information. Nice job!

Still not a big Dyno fan as a way of expressing performance. Like I have stated before the difference between two of the exact same model dyno can be statistically significant. Two dynos(same model) same day runs, off by 35rwhp is significant.

Dyno statistics can identify performance levels. Horsepower stats is creating an idea of the type of performance an auto should put down. Where as track times are the actual performance an auto puts down. I very much agree the actual numbers will very greatly. However this type of performance validation can never be taken away.

I understand where you are coming from. I mean IMO GIAC tunes are awesome and obviously the cars would have to have tune with the SC, that BS was non sense! I mean I do not like resistors, but whatever works.

BTW, how do you burn out with the DCT? And, that SC'd e9X m3 was a beast trapping 130mph.

Who's M3 was trapping 130mph? That's what a ZR1 runs. More details please...