SALT LAKE CITY  The resignation Saturday of former House Majority Leader Kevin Garn, a Republican from Layton, over a nude hot-tubbing incident with a teenage girl 25 years ago is fueling the already heated debate over legislative ethics  especially since it follows the resignation of another high-profile GOP legislative leader from Davis County, former Senate Majority Leader Sheldon Killpack of Syracuse. Shortly before the start of the 2010 legislative session, Killpack stepped down after being arrested on suspicion of drunken driving.

A new citizens organization, Utahns for Ethical Government, is attempting to make it even harder for questionable behavior by lawmakers to stay hidden  through an initiative petition calling for a long list of ethical reforms, including a code of conduct spelling out that the appearance of impropriety must be avoided.

The organization has until mid-April to collect enough signatures from voters statewide to qualify for the general election ballot in November.

SNIP

Jenkins said lawmakers also worked hard last session to improve their image with the public in the wake of Killpack's DUI arrest at the end of an evening spent with lobbyists at a bar, Liquid Joe's.

Well, if this serves as a warning for young Republicans to stay on the straight and narrow, it’s a good thing. They need to know that whatever they do, for good or ill, someone can always find out about it, and if it’s bad, it will be disclosed at the WORST possible time.

How many statehouses can you find where BOTH majority leaders resigned within less than two months due to moral scandals? And the thing is that somehow the state of Utah, & specifically the 60% majority who reside there, is/are presented to us as shining moral examples of "gods-in-embryo."

Not very divine-like behavior.

4
posted on 03/14/2010 11:51:59 AM PDT
by Colofornian
(If you're not going to drink the coffee, at least wake up and smell it.)

Well, if this serves as a warning for young Republicans to stay on the straight and narrow, its a good thing. They need to know that whatever they do, for good or ill, someone can always find out about it, and if its bad, it will be disclosed at the WORST possible time.

Well, it looks like some sunshine could burst forth from the immoral fog of Davis County's immoral Lds political leadership (both resigned politicians are from Davis Co. -- to the point that a late Saturday Ogden Standard-Examiner article said):

The Garn scandal and the one involving then-State Senate Majority Leader Sheldon Killpack, a Republican from Syracuse, who resigned in January following a drunk driving arrest, has tarnished Utah's political landscape, said Rob Miller, chairman of the Davis County Democratic Party. "It unfortunate for the people of Utah that Utah's Republican leaders and Davis Republican leaders have allowed themselves to be mired in scandal and political theater," he said. "We are making national news not for our good works but for the poor decisions of Davis County's Republican elected leadership."

The potential sunshine? The same article goes on to say: Meanwhile, several well known Davis County Republicans are already beginning to line up as possible successors to Garn. The filing period ends Friday for candidates running in November's general election...Chris Crowder, who lives in Layton and is a minister at Christian Life Center, filed for the District 16 seat on Friday and believes Garn's resignation may give him small boost over other candidates. "I have an organization already formed," Crowder, a Republican, said Saturday. "But if someone comes in with name recognition it may not help at all." Source: Kevin Garn steps down -- Davis GOP moves to fill his legislative seat

5
posted on 03/14/2010 1:29:51 PM PDT
by Colofornian
(If you're not going to drink the coffee, at least wake up and smell it.)

An Lds majority leader legislator...committing a major scandal...leading to his resignation. (It's happened twice in 2010...same party...same state...same county even)

Right before this last scandal, the Deseret News ran a column recently saying that "our job" was to forgive fallen heroes. And I think that's true. But when the Lds church has placed those heroes so high upon a divine pedestal by labeling them as "god-in-embryos" -- are we then to go around forgiving "gods?" (Sorry, but if the "gods" need forgiving, then they are not, by nature, true gods!)

I am truly pleased that you hold us Mormons to just high standards, even higher than you hold your fellow Evangelicals to. Might Christian of you.

Now why would I want to hold Lds to anything less than what the Mormon Jesus does? "Therefore I would that ye should BE PERFECT, even as I, or your Father who is in heaven is perfect." (3 Nephi 12:48)

(Did ya notice that this says BE perfect -- not BECOME perfect?)

Are Lds perfect? Have Lds done ALL they can do per 2 Nephi 25:23? If they haven't, like these legislators, how will grace ever begin to kick in per the Mormon standard found in 2 Nephi 25:23 -- "AFTER ALL they can do"?

Now do you see why Evangelicals stress that God, not ourselves, is our source of righteousness (Romans 10:3) that Jesus Christ, not ourselves, is our source of righteousness (1 Cor. 1:30) that were saved by grace alone (Romans 11:6) that the true gospel is ALWAYS gracious & grace-filled (Acts 20:24) and that this all can be a point of agreement between Christians and transitioning Mormons cause even when it comes to alignment with Gods will, does not 2 Nephi 10:24 in the Book of Mormon say, Wherefore, my beloved brethren, reconcile yourselves to the will of God, and not to the will of the devil and the flesh; and remember, after ye are reconciled unto God, that it is ONLY IN AND THROUGH THE GRACE OF GOD THAT YE ARE SAVED."

Urroner: Gods will is the same for all of us; Mormon or Evangelical; legislator or non-legislator; saint or sinner. After all, He intended us all to be His people; He intended that we would all exercise servant-leadership in various spheres of life; and He intended that once we became sinners, that we would become holy (saints) in His Son (1 Cor. 1:30). Christ is our holiness; Christ is our righteousness. He is our Standard! And the Father accepts nothing less than perfection. He is indeed perfect. Hes my substitute. Im holding on to Him when I appear in His presence.

So before Smith got it wrong in 2 Nephi 25:23, at least got it right both in 10:24 in that chapter and parts of 2:4-8: Salvation is free And by the law no flesh is justified Behold, he offereth himself a sacrifice for sin, to answer the ends of the law, unto all those who have a broken heart and a contrite spirit; and unto none else can the ends of the law be answered. Wherefore, how great the importance to make these things known unto the inhabitants of the earth, that they may know that there is no flesh that can dwell in the presence of God, save it be through the merits and mercy, and grace of the Holy Messiah, who layeth down his life  (2 Nephi 2:4-5, 7-8)

8
posted on 03/15/2010 8:59:01 AM PDT
by Colofornian
(If you're not going to drink the coffee, at least wake up and smell it.)

I say:
What the heck? I thought this was suppose to be a thread about two political leaders in Utah who were caught in major scandals, but here you are reacting as if the Mormon Church decided who was in the Utah senate and house. Dude, what have you been smoking? I have a son who would love to get a hold of that stuff also.

You seem to think that Mormons are not human and should be incapable of sin or is that just you being silly? Actually, I just think that it’s your “God inspired” hatred of Mormons that forces you to ask us Mormons to get that piece of sawdust from our eyes while your own vision is obscured by a California Redwood.

But, in all honesty, keep doing what you are doing, it only shows the world and the Lord just how arrogant and bombastic you have become. You hurt your own cause and are aiding the enemy, those vile, evil Mormons.

So now you're introducing new concepts to this thread like "theocracy?"

Urroner, it's simple. Since this thread is about ethics, if your neighbor climbs into his hot tub naked on a few occasions with a 15 yo, are you going to call the police or not? (Yes or no answer would suffice)

And if you were your neighbor's bishop, would you look the other way or take actions to ex-communicate him or do what?

I thought this was suppose to be a thread about two political leaders in Utah who were caught in major scandals...You seem to think that Mormons are not human and should be incapable of sin...

Well, which is it, Urroner? At first, you acknowledge a "major scandal" -- but then you seem to play it down by rooting the source as "just being human."

You mention a son. Imagine your son being involved in a major scandal; but when you try to approach him for accountability sake, he just says, "Dad, I'm 'just human' and 'capable of sin.'" What would you say then? "Oh, yeah, I forgot. I better take the California redwood out of my own eyes before I try to take the major scandal sawdust from yours"???

Nice touch, Urroner. We all sin. But if you're trying to excuse men taking naked 15 yos into hot tubs as "just being human," then I've got news for you: Most men don't do things like that involving minor girls.

You make it sound like this is just some ho-hum event -- and that the real event is the letter-to-the editor writer commenting on the scandal-mongers. But if it was so ho-hum, why did this man resign? (Hint: He didn't resign over the fact that he's a sinner; he resigned for some very specific acts)

So, Urroner...nary a word about the victim in Garn's case...just playing the defender-apologist role for these politicians? Urroner, Jesus already died for these politicians' sins and crimes and major scandals; you don't need to become a martyr for them, too. [Note: Using martyr as double-entendre -- since the Greek word "martyr" = witness]

10
posted on 03/16/2010 9:33:20 AM PDT
by Colofornian
(If you're not going to drink the coffee, at least wake up and smell it.)

Did I ever say that I think that it’s okay for anybody, even us evil, vile Merman types to do what these men did? Did the Merman Church say anything like that also?

You, my friend, are creating a strawman.

You act like it’s almost an impossibility for Mormons to sin or that they should be almost perfect in this life and then you express shock or even sheer amazement that Mormons are only human and are capable of evil deeds.

Nice touch Colofornian.

Interesting thing is that I have never seen you mention any major scandal that a supposedly faithful Evangelical is involved in. Maybe I have just missed those posts, but then again, maybe you are too full of yourself and your beliefs, that you can only point out the faults in others.

BTW Colofornian, I don’t think it’a a matter if I might or might not turn in my neighbor for child abuse, I have turned in a neighbor for child abuse. I hope that you can get off your high horsie now.

Besides Colofornian, I don’t see this as a Mormon problem, I see this as a Utah problem and I don’t live in Utah.

From reading this latest post of yours, I can see that you are way full of yourself, your arrogance beliefs, and hatred for those who don’t believe like you.

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