To be honest, I haven't even put a whole lot of effort into researching the '11 class yet. I devoted much of my time to the '10 class.

Although, I still know a few of these players.. I'm a BIG Rendon fan. I think he has the potential to be something really special. I do also really like Purke and Cole. Don't really have a preference between the two as of yet.

JP_Frost wrote:I haven't done much research myself, but these are some players who keep popping up and I have read some scouting reports/blurbs about.

Rendon is a fantastic prospect. Reminds me a lot of Longoria.

Not that I expect people to agree with me, but I think there are some concerns about Rendon.

Some things to keep in mind with Rendon; had two major injuries already in his career to the same ankle. Projecting Rendon at the major league level, as a 3B he is undersized and he has a below average body (needs toning up). In high school he was in a lot better shape. Now, at Rice his body has filled out some but it looks more like beer and pizza weight. He still moves well enough to play in the infield, but he could improve his body and agility a lot if he puts in the work. His body might have become a little sloppy due to his ankle injury in 2009 (couldn't do cardio?)

Athletically, Longoria is materially more impressive than Rendon. He's in a lot better shape and is bigger by 3-4" and 25 lbs. If you just look at their swings though, I agree there are some definite similarities between the two. Like Longoria, Rendon has a GREAT swing and is a very skilled hitter. His swing is so good that it will generate more power than his relatively smallish body build would otherwise indicate.

Rendon is clearly a great hitting prospect. However, if he doesn't take care of his body he could be a guy that works himself out of 3B and into a 1B-type. I definitely believe Rendon has infield skills in him. He could play 3B, or even 2B, but he's going to need to stay on top of his fitness. I might sound a bit nit-picky, but this early in the draft you've got to do your due diligence. I know scouts are at least a little worried about his body. Regardless, the guy can flat hit.

Alex Meyer is going to be an interesting name next year. There's a ton of potential there, but he's got a long way to go to turn himself into a pitcher.

Add Francisco Lindor to the HS list. He's a SS out of Clermont, which is basically my (adopted) home town.

Got a guy who's involved in youth BB down there. He's very high on Lindor, who he calls Frankie. Says that Lindor is easily as good of a SS prospect as Nolan Fontana.

Nolan Fontana is one of the Gators excellent freshman class of last year. He's from Winter Garden, which is about 5 miles away from Clermont. He's a freshman All-American from this past season & All SEC defensive team.

My Bud says that Lindor is one of the best defensive HS shortstops he's ever seen. This is from a guy who's been involved for over 30 years. Says the kid can pick anything, has great range and an excellent arm. Skinny, wiry kind of build, switch hitter, quick bat, not much power, pesky, good(not great)runner. Thinks the kid is signable. Joked that he hopes the kid signs out of HS as he's a Gator fan and the kid is a FSU commit.

I don't know if we have any lower level guys that are considered real SS prospects but I can't think of any in the upper levels. Now I'm not suggesting this kid for the 1st round but he's someone to keep an eye on after that(and after Burch Smith, of course), depending on how he develops with the bat. I do know that his pitchers will love having that kind of defense backing them up.

I tried to discuss this a little bit, at length during the 2010 Draft Thread.

I'd love to hear people's consensus Top 5s, in no particular order. I feel like Rendon, Cole, Purke, and Jungmann are the cream of the crop in terms of college players, but I have no knowledge of the HSers. Anyone else have any feedback on the top, elite level HSers? Also, what are would your Top 5 look like?

I tried to discuss this a little bit, at length during the 2010 Draft Thread.

I'd love to hear people's consensus Top 5s, in no particular order. I feel like Rendon, Cole, Purke, and Jungmann are the cream of the crop in terms of college players, but I have no knowledge of the HSers. Anyone else have any feedback on the top, elite level HSers? Also, what are would your Top 5 look like?

A quiet little voice from someone who has just watched one game this year but i came away thinking that Travis harrison has the best hitting upside of any HS player, I think he is athletic enough to play 1B or corner OF but highly unlikely to stick at 3B. Love his bat speed and leverage.

I noticed Michael Goodnight was a 2nd rd pk in next yr's projection. I guess this shows how hard it is to follow the mlb draft and that the Tribe got good value out of their 13th rd selection. Others had him mid- to late- first rd next yr.

Overall Matt Purke is probably the safest pk, imo Gerrit Cole has the best upside for pitchers. My fav. for the Tribe's pk is a couple Vanderbilt players Sonny Gray, Jack Armstrong.

I agree Purke is probably the safest pick if you're looking at pitchers.

One guy to watch is Matt Barnes. He's less polished than the other top college arms, but he's athletic, projectable and has the makings of a front of the rotation guy. Grew up in Connecticut, so he's had less reps than other warm weather guys. It will take him longer than Purke or Gray, but his upside is higher than both.

I personally hope the Indians end up with Rendon. I question his upside, but he's got a real good bat and has some infield skills.

As for the high school class, I don't know too much, but Henry Owens should be higher on the lists I've seen. He has a bit of a different delivery, but he kind of reminds me of Cole Hamels.

One guy to watch is Matt Barnes. He's less polished than the other top college arms, but he's athletic, projectable and has the makings of a front of the rotation guy. Grew up in Connecticut, so he's had less reps than other warm weather guys. It will take him longer than Purke or Gray, but his upside is higher than both.

I personally hope the Indians end up with Rendon. I question his upside, but he's got a real good bat and has some infield skills.

As for the high school class, I don't know too much, but Henry Owens should be higher on the lists I've seen. He has a bit of a different delivery, but he kind of reminds me of Cole Hamels.

homerawayfromhome wrote:I noticed Michael Goodnight was a 2nd rd pk in next yr's projection. I guess this shows how hard it is to follow the mlb draft and that the Tribe got good value out of their 13th rd selection. Others had him mid- to late- first rd next yr.

Overall Matt Purke is probably the safest pk, imo Gerrit Cole has the best upside for pitchers. My fav. for the Tribe's pk is a couple Vanderbilt players Sonny Gray, Jack Armstrong.

I like Sonny Gray although I think he's topped out physically. I can't say he'd hold up as a starter but it's hard to judge this on an individual basis. I've never heard of any injuries but he seemed to tire late in the season.

Armstrong I look at like Maronde. He's not nearly as wild as Maronde but he doesn't have any command. Both guys have the armstrength & breaking ball. Armstrong gives up tons of hits because he misses early in the count & has to come back over the plate & gets killed.

JMO. Has anyone else seen these guys? I'd be interested in hearing other takes.

Personally Im facsinated with Armstrong b/c the combo of size, power FB and his dad played for the Tribe.Id guess that if Pittsburgh is picking first they draft the best projectable player. Rendon and Purke will definately get their attention but there are numerous other arms that could slide in their too.I've heard a lot of good on Henry Owens, this year seems to have a lot of pitchers who are similar or close in talent.I had a short wish list this past draft... Chris Sale, Michael Choice, Matt Harvey, Jameson Taillon. I'm pleased with Pomeranz b/c I believe he develops into an good 2 or really good 3 and the Tribe really needed a LHSP in the rotation hopefully he develops.Hopefully the Tribe carries the aggressive approach into next season and we are able to snag a couple of next years top players we have already discussed.

I would really like Rendon's bat. Everywhere I look though his is projected as the top pick in next years draft. After that I am looking at arms right now. Purke,Cole, and Jungmann top my list right now. I think Purke is a future ace. He would need money to come out but I think the Indians proved this year they are willing to take the tough sign and get it done.

I think Pittsburgh also showed they are willing to spend money to get it done too, so reality is Purke could be their pick, or Rendon but I believe Purke could demand a ML contract like Harper.Its my opinion that any player needs to perform at the minor league level, instead of learning on the fly in the majors like Chris Sale (who I really liked) but an advanced lefty like Purke will be hard to keep down long. As you said Purke could front a rotation soon.

homerawayfromhome wrote:I think Pittsburgh also showed they are willing to spend money to get it done too, so reality is Purke could be their pick, or Rendon but I believe Purke could demand a ML contract like Harper.Its my opinion that any player needs to perform at the minor league level, instead of learning on the fly in the majors like Chris Sale (who I really liked) but an advanced lefty like Purke will be hard to keep down long. As you said Purke could front a rotation soon.

IMO, if Pitt had to choose between Purke and Rendon, they'd probably go with Purke. At this point in time, anyway.

I dont know their farm system or needs but their stragedy toward the draft is similar to ours (Neal Huntington???). I think the value is the front of the rotation lefty it think he brings it mid-90's too thats hard to pass up. For them projecting a rotation with Purke and Taillon would seem very appealing.If Im not mistaken the Tribe was high on Gerrit Cole the yr he didnt sign w/ the Yanks, but I don't see him on the draft board either. Maybe George Springer is the Tribe's first pk adding a good bat would be nice. We need some power prospects to blend in with the atheletes from this yr's draft.

Rocky55 wrote:I like Sonny Gray although I think he's topped out physically. I can't say he'd hold up as a starter but it's hard to judge this on an individual basis. I've never heard of any injuries but he seemed to tire late in the season.

I agree. The more I think about it, the more I tend to believe that if Sonny Gray were 6'3" instead of 5'10", he'd be considered by many to be the best college pitching prospect in the draft. He's a power pitcher, aggressive and his pitches all move very well on both planes. Even though he is short, he pitches taller than his height b/c he's got a high 3/4 arm slot, but short RHP's are a dime-a-dozen and scouts don't go crazy over them. Yeah, Gray doesn't have the long, loose limbs that you look for in top flight pitching prospects (he's got the body of a middle infielder), but his delivery is overall petty good and he gets good movement on his pitches.

When it comes to durability, sure, you've got to ask the question. Projecting injuries with pitchers is darn near impossible, though. Mark Prior threw 95 MPH with hardly any effort at all, had a very good delivery and he ended up ruining his shoulder, when little Roy Oswalt throws 200+ IP year after year. When it comes to pitchers, you can try to weed out guys with bad mechanics and high stress deliveries, but outside of that you almost just have to keep your prospects in good shape and cross your fingers.

I dont see the Tribe drafting a high schooler in the first round theres just too much risk financially for the Tribe so a college arm is most likely. Although if they were wowed by a guy who would appear to transition very quickly to ML it could be possible, still unlikely though. I did mention Sonny Gray as a possibility for the Tribe, I dont think he will be the pick it would seem out of charecter to take a "small" pitcher for the Tribe as you mentioned. Thats why some of the taller guys like Armstrong, Cole, Jungmann and Meyer could come into play.

Rocky55 wrote:Add Francisco Lindor to the HS list. He's a SS out of Clermont, which is basically my (adopted) home town.

Got a guy who's involved in youth BB down there. He's very high on Lindor, who he calls Frankie. Says that Lindor is easily as good of a SS prospect as Nolan Fontana.

Nolan Fontana is one of the Gators excellent freshman class of last year. He's from Winter Garden, which is about 5 miles away from Clermont. He's a freshman All-American from this past season & All SEC defensive team.

My Bud says that Lindor is one of the best defensive HS shortstops he's ever seen. This is from a guy who's been involved for over 30 years. Says the kid can pick anything, has great range and an excellent arm. Skinny, wiry kind of build, switch hitter, quick bat, not much power, pesky, good(not great)runner. Thinks the kid is signable. Joked that he hopes the kid signs out of HS as he's a Gator fan and the kid is a FSU commit.

I don't know if we have any lower level guys that are considered real SS prospects but I can't think of any in the upper levels. Now I'm not suggesting this kid for the 1st round but he's someone to keep an eye on after that(and after Burch Smith, of course), depending on how he develops with the bat. I do know that his pitchers will love having that kind of defense backing them up.

Nice list, JP. One thing, Esposito's a 3B.

I got an update from my buddy in Clermont after seeing Lindor had moved up to #3 on the PG '11 HS list. Mostly I wanted to needle him as PG has Lindor having "surprising power" while my buddy had told me that he(Lindor) would "hit you some doubles". Also mentioned that Lindor had won the HR ontest at the AFLAC game.

My buddy says he's never seen that much "in game" power from Lindor. I mentioned posting about our conversation & he disagrees with my assessment on Lindor's draft position. Thinks he could be a late 1st round guy if he stays healthy & that it's possible he could make it to the top half of the 1st. I asked if he was as good as Machado & he says no, that he doesn't have Machado's potential with the bat but is much, much better defensively.

Botton line is that unless Lindor improves a lot we're probably not going to pick him in the 1st & he might not be around in the 2nd.

For those interested, PG has had an article up for a couple of days by Patrick Ebert(the redoubtable colbyjack of brewerfan fame) called "The Summer's Best". Lots of good info on some of next year's draft eligibles. Y'all can add some guys to your wish list. I believe it's a free article so check it out.

JP_Frost wrote:Yeah, it's imperative we finish no lower than 6th. Baltimore has been climbing up (or down if you will) the ladder, so maybe we can still creep into the top 3 or 4.

meh, disagree on the "imperative" to finish no lower than 6th part. Draft history proves you don't have to have a top 6 pick to get the best talent, especially in a draft like we're gonna see that's pretty deep at the top. Evne if the Indians finished with the 9th pick somehow, not a big deal IMO and means this team finished very, very strong which I think is even more important going forward.

Taylor Jungmann early in the 1st round really scares me. I really think he's overrated. Physically talented, yes, but Jungmann comes through his delivery with a hitch that he needs to clear up b/c its going to hurt his command and it tips off his fastball. He reminds me of Daniel Bard when he was at UNC -- good arm strength, good slider but it's not a full arsenal. The Red Sox did an excellent job developing Bard, getting more velo out of him and turning him into a dominant reliever. See his numbers after he signed -- he was far from a finished product. Jungmann is a better pitcher at this point than Bard, but I've got too many questions on him. His stuff has also flattened out in college (lower arm slot) at Texas, which always worries me.

It's easy to look at Sonny Gray and downgrade him -- he has the body of a second baseman. I love tall, loose, projectable pitchers as much as anyone. Scouts often like those guys b/c having a long arms helps get leverage and more movement on pitches. Gray doesn't have that, but still has really good stuff with more movement on his pitches than most other top college arms. I'm a believer in Gray.

Comparing Garrit Cole to Stephen Strasburg on pure stuff is totally off-base. Arm strength? Yes, I can see some comparisons, but Strasburg's curveball was a ton better than Cole's. Strasburg got snap on it and got a ton better depth on his breaking ball than Cole does on his slider. Cole's slider has a tendency to flatten out and become hittable. It's potentially a good pitch, but I really think there's going to be a group of scouts that watch Cole pitch this spring and wonder if his slider is a true strike out pitch.

I hate this GD team. Ten games to go & once again we start beating the teams ahead of us. Worst part is that instead of Goedert or JoshRod contributing to these late season histrionics, we get Andy Marte & Shelley Duncan, who hopefully won't be here next year, screwing up our draft slot. Thanks, A-holes!

jellis wrote:I have a hard time getting upset about baseball draft picks, I dont see us take purke or anyone that is that hard to sign. Time will tell, but I doubt it is killer if we are 6 instead of 4

Exactly. Though I do think we could be more aggressive than in the past (so think a guy like Purke could be in play), but yeah 4 vs 6, we could easily blow that 4th pick.....I mean, in 1991 we pick 13th and take Manny....in 1992 we have the #2 pick and we take Shuey. It's not a crapshoot, but you can find GREAT talent in the 6-10 range every year. Not too mention the lower the pick, the more money you have for your 2nd-10th round guys.

I like that our young pitchers have pitched pretty well lately. I'd rather see this than them getting shelled.

jellis wrote:I have a hard time getting upset about baseball draft picks, I dont see us take purke or anyone that is that hard to sign. Time will tell, but I doubt it is killer if we are 6 instead of 4

Exactly. Though I do think we could be more aggressive than in the past (so think a guy like Purke could be in play), but yeah 4 vs 6, we could easily blow that 4th pick.....I mean, in 1991 we pick 13th and take Manny....in 1992 we have the #2 pick and we take Shuey. It's not a crapshoot, but you can find GREAT talent in the 6-10 range every year. Not too mention the lower the pick, the more money you have for your 2nd-10th round guys.

I like that our young pitchers have pitched pretty well lately. I'd rather see this than them getting shelled.

Y'all must be REALLY enjoying this late run now. All we have to do is keep this up & maybe we fall behind the Nats.

How does the 8th pick sound to you? Just take a look at the guys that basically we have no chance to draft just because of this stupid, happens every year, late season run. A hot streak now doesn't even affect attendance the way it would at the start the year. The Tribe is off the radar right now.

There are guys at the top of this draft that I'd love to get into our system. You talk about 2nd-10th Round guys but we pick lower in all of those rounds too. We sit and wait and get to choose from what's left over. And hope we get lucky.

jellis wrote:I have a hard time getting upset about baseball draft picks, I dont see us take purke or anyone that is that hard to sign. Time will tell, but I doubt it is killer if we are 6 instead of 4

Exactly. Though I do think we could be more aggressive than in the past (so think a guy like Purke could be in play), but yeah 4 vs 6, we could easily blow that 4th pick.....I mean, in 1991 we pick 13th and take Manny....in 1992 we have the #2 pick and we take Shuey. It's not a crapshoot, but you can find GREAT talent in the 6-10 range every year. Not too mention the lower the pick, the more money you have for your 2nd-10th round guys.

I like that our young pitchers have pitched pretty well lately. I'd rather see this than them getting shelled.

Y'all must be REALLY enjoying this late run now. All we have to do is keep this up & maybe we fall behind the Nats.

How does the 8th pick sound to you? Just take a look at the guys that basically we have no chance to draft just because of this stupid, happens every year, late season run. A hot streak now doesn't even affect attendance the way it would at the start the year. The Tribe is off the radar right now.

There are guys at the top of this draft that I'd love to get into our system. You talk about 2nd-10th Round guys but we pick lower in all of those rounds too. We sit and wait and get to choose from what's left over. And hope we get lucky.

It seems as if ytou're frustrated and angry that we aren't intentionally losing our games late in the season so that we can get as high a draft pick as possible next June. I mean, I'd like to have a shot at sone of the high ranked talents that will be around in picks before we select next draft as well, but how do you go about telling ytoung players fighting for their professional livelihoods, and getting their first taste of big league ball to go out there and tank so the team can draft higher next draft ?

The drafts where you have a player taken at 4 that is so significantly higher in overall value than a player takjen at 8, at the time of the draft, is rare. I mean, aftyer the fact a number of years you could point to a player taken at a particular spot as having extremely differeing values, but at the exact point in a draft... not telling enough to have a philosophy down the strectch to toss games...that's nuts.

Carlos Carrasco winning games, Matt LaPorta and Michael Brantley hitting at the major league level and Chris Perez continuing to develop into a top line closer are much more vital to the future of this franchise than the difference between the 4th and 8th pick in the draft.

I get the frustration of winning games off the back of big nights from the likes of Shelley Duncan, but taking last nights game as an example - Carrasco pitches through trouble, LaPorta and Hafner crush HRs, Brantley smokes a line drive double and the bullpen dominates...... we can win out as far as I'm concerned if we're doing it through important pieces for the future performing at the ML level.

I want certain players to succeed. Guys like Daz mentioned, but if Carrasco pitches 7 shutout innings and Jensen Lewis gives up 4 runs en route to a loss, I'm fine with that. I don't want the team to tank, because the draft is too much a crapshoot for that, but I don't mind losing these last few games either.

Sorry guys. I am not convinced losing is good in any way for the biggest "loser" franchise in baseball. IMO it only keeps the old stereotype of "mistake on the Lake" alive and says to draft choices and professionals alike that if you want to win, don't come to Cleveland because the Indians are quitters.