JCOS Trail Use Task Force Meeting Tuesday Night June 9th, 7:00pm

Meeting at 7:00pm Tuesday, June 9th at the Jefferson County Open Space Administrative Office, 700 Jefferson County Parkway, Golden 80401.

In addition to the usual park user group updates and feedback, the agenda includes a discussion of the alternating day schedule at Centennial Cone, more in depth on the current issues at Apex and other updates including the Mayhem Gulch parking area, North Table Mountain progress, new proposed yield regulations, more...

Heard from an OAB member that Kevin said this meeting should be "interesting" ... I asked him what that meant and he couldn't elaborate. I asked him if JCOS already was leaning in any particular direction for Apex and again he said he didn't know.

I think this meeting has the potential to allow for the mtb community to contribute and ultimately effect where JCOS goes with Apex. My hope is that a decision hasn't already been reached and the meeting is nothing more than a formality for the sake of appearing fair ....

I think this meeting has the potential to allow for the mtb community to contribute and ultimately effect where JCOS goes with Apex. My hope is that a decision hasn't already been reached and the meeting is nothing more than a formality for the sake of appearing fair ....

Decisions have not been reached yet. The Trail Use Task Force input and discussion is part of the process, we report to the staff and OSAC in an advisory capacity. The BCC recommended formation of the TUTF for this purpose. It gives all three user groups reps oportunities to discuss and involve themselves with working solutions in Open Space. And it works. That's why we don't have a bike ban on North Table. Now we are working on Apex. And public input is very important. Public input alone isn't enough though, the user groups need to discuss and agree on aspects of the parks use and interaction/conflict resolution is a key peice of this. That's what the TUTF does. We attempt resolutions at the user level and make those recommendations to Open Space staff and OSAC, and that's what they ask us to do, that's what we are there for.

My hope is that a decision hasn't already been reached and the meeting is nothing more than a formality for the sake of appearing fair ....

If you look at the agenda, it's awfully tight ... the last 10 minutes alone are supposed to cover three topics, including proposed new yielding regs? With at least 18 people in attendance?! Your concern is one that many likely share.

Remember folks, there are additional public input opportunities. Please come to as many as you can and make your voice heard. The fact is, the mountain bike community has valid concerns, reasonable needs, and alternative solutions to shared goals. Get involved!

July 2, 2009 7:00pm: OSAC Review (Apex Feedback): Findings from public input will be reported at the Open Space Advisory Committee’s regular meeting on July 2, 2009 at 7:00pm. COMBA will be there to make sure our input was captured accurately, and hope you will be too!

Additional dates/deadlines of note:
<O</OJune 30 2009: Apex Feedback Forms due to Thea Rock. http://dev.comba.org/apex_survey.html
<O</OJuly 6, 2009: Public Comment on new yielding regulations due to Colleen Gadd.
<O</OAugust 6, 2009 OSAC Meeting: An “Information Item” will be placed on the agenda for discussion of the draft yielding regulations, public comments, and staffs draft recommendations.

Very Productive TUTF Meeting Last Night

Was one of the most positive and productive Trail Use Task Force meetings we've had in years last night. Lots of great input from all three park user groups, and received well from JCOS staff in attendance last night.

The Trail Use Task Force reps will be at both open houses again to continue this dialouge about collective solutions suggested for Apex. I'll have the same digital working map files projected up on the big screen for more input from all. Open Space staff members will be there in attendance to answer questions and take additional input.

Please join us all at one or both of the open houses that ypu can make. Thursday night June 18th at 6:30pm and Saturday morning June 20th at 9:30am are the dates and times.

Do you ever think about what you are going to say before you say it? You seem hell-bent on not communicating with Jefferson County Open Space through the very channels that the board of county commisioners created and the JCOS staff formally utilizes to keep an open channel of communication with the public park users and between all park user groups.

With the current position you serve in at COMBA, this just seems, well, for lack of a more accurate description with your current comments and attitude, irresponsible on your part. If you are trying to lead within your advocacy group by example, you are shooting yourself and the park users that you hope to represent in some way in the foot. Good job. We can't wait for the next bone-headed wall that you throw up between parties trying to communicate. But even after your latest here, we still welcome you to get involved by coming to the meetings and learning the communication process.

Just a tip, it doesn't involve making demands and plowing through anyone you feel is in your way and leaving a wake. No one is in your way but yourself. Come on, join the rest of the user group and park users and drop the sore attitude and personal special interest agenda, you're giving COMBA a bad name with your wreckless approach to things that existed long before your urgency to light fires and bring pitch forks. It's time that you knew that's not the way it works in Jefferson County. Communication, reason and diplomacy gets us in possitions to solve problems and agree to take measures to try to reduce or end conflicts.

Solving problems and reducing conflicts and complaints goes a long way towards creating more park user oportunities for all. Not hard-line special interest agenda rammed at people you are hoping to get something out of.

Regards,

Dave

Originally Posted by TVC15

If you look at the agenda, it's awfully tight ... the last 10 minutes alone are supposed to cover three topics, including proposed new yielding regs? With at least 18 people in attendance?! Your concern is one that many likely share.

Do you ever think about what you are going to say before you say it? You seem hell-bent on not communicating with Jefferson County Open Space through the very channels that the board of county commisioners created and the JCOS staff formally utilizes to keep an open channel of communication with the public park users and between all park user groups.

With the current position you serve in at COMBA, this just seems, well, for lack of a more accurate description with your current comments and attitude, irresponsible on your part. If you are trying to lead within your advocacy group by example, you are shooting yourself and the park users that you hope to represent in some way in the foot. Good job. We can't wait for the next bone-headed wall that you throw up between parties trying to communicate. But even after your latest here, we still welcome you to get involved by coming to the meetings and learning the communication process.

Just a tip, it doesn't involve making demands and plowing through anyone you feel is in your way and leaving a wake. No one is in your way but yourself. Come on, join the rest of the user group and park users and drop the sore attitude and personal special interest agenda, you're giving COMBA a bad name with your wreckless approach to things that existed long before your urgency to light fires and bring pitch forks. It's time that you knew that's not the way it works in Jefferson County. Communication, reason and diplomacy gets us in possitions to solve problems and agree to take measures to try to reduce or end conflicts.

Solving problems and reducing conflicts and complaints goes a long way towards creating more park user oportunities for all. Not hard-line special interest agenda rammed at people you are hoping to get something out of.

Regards,

Dave

I made the obersvation that it was a very long agenda, with many items that required discussion beyond the allotted time, and noted that another poster's concerns are likley shared by others. That's "wreckless"? Encouraging people to attend open houses to get involved and represent our community is "lighting fires and bringing pitchforks"?

I think we have a disconnect.

I, as a Jeffco resident and advocacy lead, am extremely open to working with Jefferson County, and will continue do so. I am grateful that JCOS itself encourages this kind of communication happen through multiple channels ... TUFT, open houses, and OSAC meetings. Our community needs utlize all of them!

If you have personal concerns, please contact me at michelle@comba.org and I'd be happy to discuss them off-line with you. And, as always, thank you for your dedication to our community, and being open to feedback from the community you represent and serve.

Was one of the most positive and productive Trail Use Task Force meetings we've had in years last night. Lots of great input from all three park user groups, and received well from JCOS staff in attendance last night.

The Trail Use Task Force reps will be at both open houses again to continue this dialouge about collective solutions suggested for Apex. I'll have the same digital working map files projected up on the big screen for more input from all. Open Space staff members will be there in attendance to answer questions and take additional input.

Please join us all at one or both of the open houses that ypu can make. Thursday night June 18th at 6:30pm and Saturday morning June 20th at 9:30am are the dates and times.

Thanks for all in attendance last night and everyone's input.

Regards,

Dave Cohen
Trail Use Task Force Biker Representative

Dave,

Thanks for the hard work you did on the plan. I know I look forward to getting a better sense of some of the options you worked on. We didn't have a chance to look at it more in depth last night, but is there substantially more to it than the flip-flopping directional use proposal?

Do you ever think about what you are going to say before you say it? You seem hell-bent on not communicating with Jefferson County Open Space through the very channels that the board of county commisioners created and the JCOS staff formally utilizes to keep an open channel of communication with the public park users and between all park user groups.

With the current position you serve in at COMBA, this just seems, well, for lack of a more accurate description with your current comments and attitude, irresponsible on your part. If you are trying to lead within your advocacy group by example, you are shooting yourself and the park users that you hope to represent in some way in the foot. Good job. We can't wait for the next bone-headed wall that you throw up between parties trying to communicate. But even after your latest here, we still welcome you to get involved by coming to the meetings and learning the communication process.

Just a tip, it doesn't involve making demands and plowing through anyone you feel is in your way and leaving a wake. No one is in your way but yourself. Come on, join the rest of the user group and park users and drop the sore attitude and personal special interest agenda, you're giving COMBA a bad name with your wreckless approach to things that existed long before your urgency to light fires and bring pitch forks. It's time that you knew that's not the way it works in Jefferson County. Communication, reason and diplomacy gets us in possitions to solve problems and agree to take measures to try to reduce or end conflicts.

Solving problems and reducing conflicts and complaints goes a long way towards creating more park user oportunities for all. Not hard-line special interest agenda rammed at people you are hoping to get something out of.

Regards,

Dave

Way to publicly flame Michelle and her efforts Dave! Don't you think this e-mail could have been sent privately? Way to encourage participation!

I think Michelle is doing an outstanding job. The mountain biking community has a well-spoken, articulate representative out there fighting for our rights.

Though I'm not completely sold on the directional idea (for Apex), I did really like your idea of uphill-swinging gates at certain key locations as a form of downhill speed control. I probably would've thrown that out on the floor as the first "bargaining chip." However, I'm sure you had good reasons for not doing that based on your deep involvement with the other user groups.

Maybe I'm missing something, but from the comments around the table last night after your presentation, the new management practices for Apex seem less like a compromise and more of a concession on the part of one specific group of trail users. For the sake of fairness, shouldn't a compromise involve concessions from all stakeholders?

I've got a few other ideas that probably aren't best shared in this forum that I will share with JCOS via e-mail and at next Thursday night's Open House.

I agree, the mountain bikers need to come together and submit a proposed solution as one unified group. Maybe have a separate meeting where the bikers who give a crap can get together and discuss these things?

Regarding solutions, I liked the idea that one gentleman proposed in the post-meeting discussions. That is, strategically placing large boulders so that bikers would have to slow down greatly in order to navigate them.

The equestrian group disgusted me with their attitude. They acted as if JCOS was supposed to cater to their every need and desire, even when they are the smallest trail user group.

The bikers definitely came off as being the most reasonable and willing to compromise, as well as the most interested in working to solve the problems. I'm sure the JCOS officials noticed this as well, so overall good job guys.

Thanks for putting together the presentation Dave, it was very helpful for everyone to be able to see what we were talking about on the screen.

Do you ever think about what you are going to say before you say it? You seem hell-bent on not communicating with Jefferson County Open Space through the very channels that the board of county commisioners created and the JCOS staff formally utilizes to keep an open channel of communication with the public park users and between all park user groups.

With the current position you serve in at COMBA, this just seems, well, for lack of a more accurate description with your current comments and attitude, irresponsible on your part.
Regards,

Dave

Yikes, dude. TVC was recognizing that the agenda was tight for the amount of discussion that was likely to happen. Your rant doesn't even make sense. You owe her an apology.

I appreciate the effort that both of you make to help the local mountain biking community.

The posts to links and email that I've gotten from TVC have been very helpful in getting me off my lazy ass to throw in my two cents on the Jeffco issue which is important to all of us. She's doing more than 95% of the rest of us are.

Do you ever think about what you are going to say before you say it? You seem hell-bent on not communicating with Jefferson County Open Space through the very channels that the board of county commisioners created and the JCOS staff formally utilizes to keep an open channel of communication with the public park users and between all park user groups.

With the current position you serve in at COMBA, this just seems, well, for lack of a more accurate description with your current comments and attitude, irresponsible on your part. If you are trying to lead within your advocacy group by example, you are shooting yourself and the park users that you hope to represent in some way in the foot. Good job. We can't wait for the next bone-headed wall that you throw up between parties trying to communicate. But even after your latest here, we still welcome you to get involved by coming to the meetings and learning the communication process.

Just a tip, it doesn't involve making demands and plowing through anyone you feel is in your way and leaving a wake. No one is in your way but yourself. Come on, join the rest of the user group and park users and drop the sore attitude and personal special interest agenda, you're giving COMBA a bad name with your wreckless approach to things that existed long before your urgency to light fires and bring pitch forks. It's time that you knew that's not the way it works in Jefferson County. Communication, reason and diplomacy gets us in possitions to solve problems and agree to take measures to try to reduce or end conflicts.

Solving problems and reducing conflicts and complaints goes a long way towards creating more park user oportunities for all. Not hard-line special interest agenda rammed at people you are hoping to get something out of.

Regards,

Dave

wow - hanging out with you must be a lot of fun - or maybe you just woke up on the wrong side of the bed???

Enough with the bickering in public folks! And people wonder why most of this community just goes out and rides.

True.

However, most of the community that just goes out and rides are part of the reason why we're fighting to keep things like Apex alive.

I rode with the brothers (only you know who I'm talking about) down Mt Falcon earlier in the season and they bombed down the front side of Falcon not yeilding to a single person. I stopped for everyone. It made me a little mad, but the ranger totally caught them. She watched from the bottom and they didn't slow 95% percent of the time.