Spirituality

I think a truly incarnational faith—taking that concept broadly, and not just according any particular Christian formulation—needs to be based firmly on the three basic food groups:

Red wine.*

Olive oil.

Garlic.

Not necessarily in that particular order (build your own pyramid!).

My wife believes that chocolate should be added as a fourth spiritual food group. I responded that she might be embracing a Gnostic heresy of some kind. However, I don’t want to be overly dogmatic, or excommunicate my wife.

I am therefore asking the RHP Spiritual Forum community to convene as an ecumenical council to decide the proper doctrinal diet, encapsulated in a short creedal statement.

Thank you.

Pax Vino!

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* Well, I expand that to include sherry (especially fino and manzanilla), port, and brandy (especially Fundador).

Originally posted by vistesdI think a truly [b]incarnational faith—taking that concept broadly, and not just according any particular Christian formulation—needs to be based firmly on the three basic food groups:

Red wine.*

Olive oil.

Garlic.

Not necessarily in that particular order (build your own pyramid!).

My wife believes that chocolate should be added as ...[text shortened]... that to include sherry (especially fino and manzanilla), port, and brandy (especially Fundador).[/b]

Originally posted by vistesdEDIT: At some point, I hope you will address my gnostic-chocolate dilemma...

The truth of the matter is: I don't really like chocolate. The problem, I suspect, is some sort of
physical deficiency in my tongue; I don't really enjoy eating much. Short of rotten or undercooked
food, I can't really tell when a meal is gourmet, super good, just plain good, or mediocre; it all
sort of just tastes the same to me. Even as a child, I never ate sweets (or craved much of anything).
I don't tend to look forward to meals per se (although I love the company associated with them),
and if they could make a pill that would both give me the illusion of being full (fill my stomach)
and give me sufficient nutrition, I probably wouldn't eat normal food all that often (except for
the social stuff).

I know, I know. It's strange and sad. I agree in a way, but I don't really know what I'm missing.
And, yes, a number of people have said, 'If you just tried X, then you'd know what really good
food is,' and when I tried it, it's been invariably 'okay.' I'm probably just missing taste buds
or have a weak sense of smell or something.

And, since I'm totally agnostic in a sense to your religion centered on food, I can't really offer
any spiritual guidance to you or your wife. I'm a seed that fell into the thorns, I'm afraid.

Eggplant lasagna is one of about three or four foods that I would actually go out of my way
to consume, but if I never ate it again, I probably wouldn't find myself feeling 'deprived,' either.
And, as an experiment in denial, I gave up Pepsi during Lent some years ago. I'm sorry to
report that it was an effortless experience; it didn't give me any of appreciation for sacrifice. *shrug*

Originally posted by Bosse de NageI was going to say, take that gnostic heresy all the way with chocolate and chili.

Im not into sweet stuff.
So the only chocolate my taste buds will enjoy are the 'chocolate habaneros', reputed to be the hottest pepper in the world ... mmmm ...delicious .. God must have personally made that one Himself !

Originally posted by Nemesio ... I'm probably just missing taste buds
or have a weak sense of smell or something. ....Nemesio

So you dont have it all.

I have a very keen sense of taste, and I normally give restaurant owners hell when I tell them how long that chicken was in the freezer or that the oil used to fry the fish is old and should be changed.

The point is that you appear to be unforgiving to those around you who are not as meticulous and precise as you are able to be. Understand that much of the skills you have is a gift of God and not your own doing. So dont take credit where it is not due.

Originally posted by Rajk999The point is that you appear to be unforgiving to those around you who are not as meticulous and precise as you are able to be. Understand that much of the skills you have is a gift of God and not your own doing. So dont take credit where it is not due.

What are you babbling about? I never said 'I had it all,' so why are you being so confrontational?
Instead of cherry picking my comments, man up and confront your objections directly.

I have a muted sense of taste; I can barely tell the difference between gourmet and fast food,
this is true. That doesn't mean I don't confess that such a difference exists. Also, it doesn't
mean that I wouldn't confer and defer to a person who could tell the difference if having good
food at a particular occasion was a social requirement. That is, knowing that I don't know much
about food, I would let other people who do know educate me and, in the absence of being
able to offer intelligent objections, submit their recommendations. If people cannot be as
meticulous and precise, then they should similarly confess it. And, using the 'random' example
of poetry, if they do not know much about it, they should admit it, be opened to being educated
and change afterwards.

My skills are a product of whatever talent I was born with (meagre as they may be) and the
work that I've put into them. I figure I owe the Divine that much. However, that work is my
own, and I take credit for it, even while I submit that work to the people around me and for
the improvement of humankind and thus the glorification of God.

Originally posted by NemesioOriginally posted by Rajk999[b]...... that work is my own, and I take credit for it, ....[/b]

Vistesd, sorry to spoil your thread but I cant let this pass.

Nemesio, normally I find you to be a very knowledgeable, eloquent and fair minded person. But this is the most selfish arrogant piece of garbage anyone on the face of this earth can utter.

Do you really think that all your success is the result of the meager talents God gave you, plus your hard work? You mean you had no :
- parents to guide you and help develop your personality?
- teachers to mould your character and motivate you toward success?
- friends who were successful and who you tried to emulate?
- priests, pundits, pastors that corrected you when you strayed
- employers that gave you a break when you did not deserve any
- lovers, wives, girlfriends who challenged you and forced you into making yourself into somebody.
- kids to give you a reason to get up in the morning and get to work and be a good provider?

Originally posted by Rajk999But this is the most selfish arrogant piece of garbage anyone on the face of this earth can utter.

I'm sorry that you've developed this vendetta against me recently. But the least you can do
is not be jerk in response.

Do you really think that all your success is the result of the meager talents God gave you, plus your hard work?

Look how the object of your sentence changed: I wrote that my skills are the result of my
hard work. You somehow construed this as 'success.' Whatever little thing ticked you off has
affected your reading comprehension.

- parents to guide you and help develop your personality?
- teachers to mould your character and motivate you toward success?
- friends who were successful and who you tried to emulate?
- priests, pundits, pastors that corrected you when you strayed
- employers that gave you a break when you did not deserve any
- lovers, wives, girlfriends who challenged you and forced you into making yourself into somebody.
- kids to give you a reason to get up in the morning and get to work and be a good provider?

Of course I had all of those things and more. And, if you want, we can go back thank all of
the people who helped those parents, teachers, friends, priests, lovers, and so on. And then
we thank all of the people who affected them, and so on and so on. Without the people who
founded America, I wouldn't be what I am. Without the people who made moveable type
books, I wouldn't be here. Without people who developed the written language I wouldn't be
here.

However, all of those things don't amount to anything -- parents, teachers, history -- if I don't
work. Short of the basics which one assimilates -- verbal capacity, body language, various
socializations -- one has to work to be good or bad at something within the confines of their
nature (inherent talents) and nurture (the formative experiences they had).

In any event, the skills I was talking about was my knowledge of poetic form, or say of
music, or whatever. Yes, I had influences, but my hard work comprise the bulk of my achievement.
I am thankful to my parents, &c, for their guidance and influence, but ultimately my success
and failure rests on my shoulders, not theirs. I take the (bulk of the) credit for them when I
execute them well and the (bulk of the) blame when I fail to do so.