I had thought you understood the basics of MSRP vs retail, but you've proven me wrong.

Again you are off topic and fail to admit your mistakes you made in your first post in this thread. You keep trying to change the topic instead of admitting your mistakes. Some day you will mature past the age of 12 and be able to admit your own mistakes. You resort to failed attempts at insults and more off topic posts.

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Just like new cars manufacturers, sell their cars to retailers for below the MSRP (this is so the dealer can make this thing called a profit), the dealer then sells it for the best price they can get within the guidelines.

Sometimes that means the dealer sells it for a little less than the MSRP and when they find a sucker, a little more.

Thank you Capt. Obvious for trying to tell me something I have known for longer than you probably have been alive if your mental age corresponds with your chronological age.

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However in the case of GPU's, they (retailers) have sited the supply and demand issue to gouge the customer, while blaming the manufacturer for lack of supply.

You can't even spell cited correctly or you fail to comprehend basic English vocabulary.. Let me help you with that.

Definition of site
1 a : the spatial location of an actual or planned structure or set of structures (such as a building, town, or monuments)
b : a space of ground occupied or to be occupied by a building
2 a : the place, scene, or point of an occurrence or event a picnic site
b : one or more Internet addresses at which an individual or organization provides information to others an FTP site; especially : website

Definition of cite
cited; citing
transitive verb
1 : to call upon officially or authoritatively to appear (as before a court)
2 : to quote by way of example, authority, or proof cites several noteworthy authors
3 a : to refer to; especially : to mention formally in commendation or praise She was cited for bravery.
b : to name in a citation cited by the trustees for his work in public health
4 : to bring forward or call to another's attention especially as an example, proof, or precedent cited the weather as a reason for canceling the picnic cited several studies that support his theory

Examples of cite in a Sentence

The article cites several experts on the subject.

The museum had often been cited as an example of successful fund-raising.

He cited evidence suggesting she was in the area when the crime was committed.

She was cited for reckless driving.

Basic economics says that if there was a very limited supply of an item and a very high demand for that item the price of that item goes up. The retailers didn't blame the GPU manufacturers for a lack of supply. The major computer hardware retailers all cited the cryptocurrency mining demand for the lack of supply. That's why they placed limited quantities per customer and limited quantities per order on many GPUs. Its also why some retailers would sell you a GPU at MSRP during the period of elevated prices if you were buying computer hardware to build a new computer system.

Nvidia increased production of GPUs and it still wouldn't meet the demand from graphics card manufacturers and their retailers and customers. After the cryptocurrency mining demand decreased, there were excess GPUs and prices fell to the same price they were before the cryptocurrency mining demand started. Now there is enough fo an excess of GPUs and graphics cards that graphics card manufacturers are again offering rebates and free games with graphics cards. They haven't done that in over 6 months.

Look at this article. There is an excess of GPUs now that the demand for mining has decreased and they also used cited correctly.

Read this, "Gamers had been deprived of GeForce 10 gaming cards for several quarters after the mining spree started in 2017. The mining craze affected both NVIDIA and AMD, causing severe price inflations on gaming cards, and to top that up, the cards were in such a short supply that those who wanted to pay the hefty price for gaming cards had to wait for them to be actually available in retail & online outlets. We are talking about prices that reached over $2000 US for the Radeon RX Vega 64 and the GeForce GTX 1080 which retailed for $699 at launch...

...NVIDIA had their own estimates on when the mining craze would start dwindling and prices would return to normal. They had estimated that GPU prices would fall and start normalizing after Q3 ’18 however, we know now that prices are back at a reasonable level and it’s just Q2 ’18....

...NVIDIA didn’t expect the price plunge so early or the mining craze to end this soon. Both AMD and NVIDIA had expected a 40% plunge in crypto demand by April, so they still kept manufacturing the GPUs, hoping for a new spree of mining to get users buying more cards. And so NVIDIA just kept on increasing supply....

...The overestimation of the crypto demand and increased supply seemed to have backfired at NVIDIA. DigiTimes, in their latest report, highlights the dim prospects of crypto mining, so much so that Taiwanese suppliers of graphics cards are expecting major shipments and profit downfall in the current quarter."

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Hence the reason GPU patent holders increased production and sold them themselves at the set MSRP, this reduced the impact of crypto miners on the marketplace.

You again fail at your made up reasons for graphics card pricing. Where do you make up this stuff?

The demand for graphics cards fell because cryptocurrency prices fell and new ASIC miners were released for one of the most popular cryptocurrencies. Its that simple. Look at the prices of the popular cryptocurrencies, the announcements of new ASIC miners, and the demand for graphics cards. You continue to fail to do this and instead keep replying with made up inaccurate information with no source. Your theories border on tinfoil hat theories and show you know nothing about supply and demand and basic economics.

You are saying Nvidia selling a small amount of Founders Edition graphics cards at MSRP caused the market to change its price. That actually made me laugh. That's like saying one car dealership sold a few new Corvette Grand Sports for $15,000,, so every car dealership in the country is going to sell their Corvette Grand Sports for $15,000. Economics doesn't work that way.

The simple fact is not many people buy Nvidia Founders Edition graphics cards. They Are a tiny part of the market. It doesn't matter that Nvidia sold graphics cards at MSRP. It was such a small quantity that it had no effect on the market.

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For the love of God, go look it up, because the stuff you're spouting off is just making you look silly.

Your links just proved my point. The pricing of graphics cards was related to short supply and high demand due to cryptocurrency mining. See where it says, "NVIDIA, a California-based company, produce GPUs that are very sought after by both gamers and crypto miners because of their parallel processing power. This demand from crypto miners has cause a shortage in graphic cards, making it difficult for gamers to acquire the products, said the company’s co-founder Jen-Hsun Huang during an interview with TechCrunch.

As a result, prices for the hardware skyrocketed well above the manufacturer’s suggested retail price."

I've been saying all along that the demand for cryptocurrency mining caused the price increase.

Your other link proved another one of my points, "Every time cryptocurrency prices have surged higher, it has increased digital currency mining demand for AMD and Nvidia graphics cards."

It also backed up what I said before, "AMD has announced plans to boost its production of graphics cards amid a global shortage with demand for them driven by their use in mining cryptocurrencies."

Its very simple supply and demand economics. When the supply was limited and the demand was high, the prices went up at the retailers. Now that the supply has increased and the demand has dropped, the prices have returned to the normal price before the demand increased.

Now that we have proven that you are clueless about cite and site and simple supply and demand economics, and you refuse to admit you were wrong, will you please stop cluttering up this thread with your off topic inaccurate made up cow manure?Lets face it, your first post above was completely wrong.You keep going further off topic and trying to change the subject instead of admitting you were wrong. Go make up your own off topic thread about this topic if you want and stop spreading your false chow dung around here.

So, you had claimed that crypto miners no longer used GPU's for mining.

Yet the articles i linked and which you say support your argument are related to GPU makers increasing production yet again to help reduce their impact and are dated May 2018.

I guess a lot has changed in the last 2 months?

Bavor, on Jul 11 2018 - 16:51, said:

I guess you haven't been following the news for several years. It hasn't been profitable to mine bitcoin with graphics cards for several years.

If you are talking about mining cryptocurrency with graphics cards, then you are also several months behind in the news. Most graphics cards are back to normal prices and are even offering rebates and game bundles to boost sales.

So, i guess most of your initial statements that started and continued in our debate, was and still are wrong?

I'm just stooping to your level because you obviously have an issue understanding basic facts no matter how many ways they are presented. You refuse to admit you are wrong and instead resort to things like changing the subject, talking down to people who obviously have more knowledge than you, and finding the most outlandish and ridiculously error priced items on hardware sites to support your incorrect assumptions.

Your spreading of cow manure all over this topic would end if you simply admitted you are 100% wrong. However you are too immature to admit you are completely wrong and continue to make incorrect claims with no basis in reality.

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So, you had claimed that crypto miners no longer used GPU's for mining.

That's not what I said anywhere. Please read my replies again. I NEVER said that. Please go back and read my replies again. If you think I said crypto miners no longer use GPUs for mining you seriously have a major reading comprehension issue and replying to you is a waste of time because you can't comprehend what you read. So you are wasting everyone's' time by replying here.

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Yet the articles i linked and which you say support your argument are related to GPU makers increasing production yet again to help reduce their impact and are dated May 2018.

I guess a lot has changed in the last 2 months?

Actually it has. Go look at the price of cryptocurrencies over the past few months and since December 2017. Your failure to comprehend how cryptocurrency prices has an effect on graphics card demand is a major issue here. Most of the top 50 Cryptocurrencies have been in a long term downward price trend. Some of them are near or at their lowest prices in the past 12 months.

Cryptocurrency miners greatly reduced their purchases of new hardware due to the decline in cryptocurrency values since April 2018. Most of the popular mineable cryptocurrencies have drastically dropped in value in the past 3 months. Many cryptocurrency miners disassembled their mining rigs and sold the components because mining wasn't profitable or only gave a minimal profit. Auction sites and used hardware sites and forums are flooded with used mining hardware right now and have been since the beginning of June.

Nvidia and their graphics card manufacturing partners have excess inventory due to the sudden decrease in demand from miners and also the decrease in demand form gamers. Many gamers either have already purchased their graphics cards they wanted or are delaying purchases until Nvidia releases details of next generation hardware.

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So, i guess most of your initial statements that started and continued in our debate, was and still are wrong?

Nope. You again failed to read and comprehend anything again. Seriously you are grasping at straws and are trying to change the topic because you still refuse to admit your initial statement was completely wrong.

You are the one who made an incorrect initial statement when you said:

That statement right there showed that you are clueless about cryptocurrency mining, the market forces that were causing the graphics card price increases, and current graphics card prices. The simple fact is you don't mine bitcoin with graphics cards unless you want to lose money.

Instead of admitting you were wrong, you keep going off on tangents cluttering up this thread with off topic posts.

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Would you agree?

Nope. You obviously failed to read and comprehend anything I've stated in this thread.

Instead of admitting your initial statement was wrong, you continue to spread off topic and irrelevant cow manure across this thread. Just grow up, admit that you were wrong and stop posting here unless its about a computer hardware deal you found.

I'm pretty satisfied with the system I got on Newegg. I was adding up all the parts to build it myself, but the deal I got for a complete system was not any more expensive... and a lot less trouble. Personally, I don't really have the time or patience to mess with building my own.

I'm pretty satisfied with the system I got on Newegg. I was adding up all the parts to build it myself, but the deal I got for a complete system was not any more expensive... and a lot less trouble. Personally, I don't really have the time or patience to mess with building my own.

Sometimes you can find a better deal with a prebuilt system. Especially when graphics card prices were higher. You also have to take into consideration the quality of components. Some pre built systems use the least expensive components they can find that meet the requirements or proprietary components. Also, some pre built systems have a limited path for upgrades.

Building your own system usually isn't much trouble unless you never did it before and have absolutely no idea what you are doing. Its a lot less complicated than it use to be.

Also you can upgrade some pre built systems with the components in the many posts above.