~ A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you … John 13:34

Quo Vadis?

We all know the traditional Christian story of Peter leaving Rome to avoid being tortured and crucified. He meets Christ outside of Rome and puts the question to Him; (Where are you going?), to which Christ replied: “Romam eo iterum crucifigi” (“I am going to Rome to be crucified again”).

Now with Jess’s withdrawal from her blog, I see both her and many others of us who might see ourselves depicted in this tradition as well. For it was Peter’s Church, a leader of that nascent Church who was looked to by that small band of Christians for their inspiration.

Those of us here, likewise, have looked to Jessica as one who has fashioned a new apostolate that took discussion, dialogue, argumentation and even a resurgence of the ancient art of dialectic in a direction that was set apart from most of the drivel that is encountered on the internet in our day. We were given encouragement to engage with one another though we were from divergent backgrounds, countries and cultures. We were given the leeway to explore in depths by the above methods faith, belief, truths, politics, societal issues and how they effected us in our own lives and how we differed in how our beliefs drove us to live our lives in a world that is dividing into smaller and smaller sub-groups or mini-cultures that seem to be ever dividing us. It provided no answers for us really but it did provide us with an opportunity to see how we too have been split apart and compartmentalized. It was a great vision for us to learn of each other and to, even if for a moment, see that our human spirit and desire for a greater good drives us though by different avenues and sometimes reaching opposite conclusions. It allowed us to regain a new-found respect for people who are quite different in many things except that we were people of good will and motivated by the sum of our backgrounds, our lives and educations. Nobody was looked down upon because we did not have academic credentials, and yet many here did. We all felt we had found a family of great diversity who were co-equals regardless of our deficiencies.

Jessica’s post, Vale, seems to bring to mind the ‘vale of tears’ that are sung in the Catholic Hymn. Salve Regina or perhaps other references:

“Beyond this vale of tears there is a life above.” – James Montgomery, British Hymn writer and Poet

“Be still, my soul: when dearest friends depart, and all is darkened in the vale of tears.” – Katharina A. von Schlegel, German Hymn writer

“To thee do we cry, poor banished children of Eve; to thee do we send up our sighs, mourning and weeping in this vale of tears.” – Catholic Hymn Salve Regina, c. 1080

As such, it leaves me saddened that one who has done so much to provide a place of worth, a place that struggles in this vale of tears, has walked away and finds it difficult to participate in what is bearing fruit for many of us.

So do we sit in Rome and await her return or do we scatter to the four winds? Will she never return or will time, which heals all wounds, bring her both refreshment and a new zeal to carry through with what she has started . . . as St. Peter did before her.

And for the rest of us: Quo vadis? Do we keep the fires burning here? Do we keep growing in our love and respect for one another by continuing our quest for truths, understanding of each other and our realization that something must be done to stop this rapid division of people into even smaller subcultural cliques than we have now.

For sadly, this departure could be the poisoning of the well that has been dug by all our hands in this vast internet desert. So if we continue this experiment, we must not lose its spirit of argumentation and disagreement when we have them. If we become guarded and simply smile at whatever one another writes and agrees with everything under the sun we will not be the same place and in fact we will simply be wasting our intellectual pursuits for truth and understanding.

My vote is to continue on, though, as often is the case, people go away to heal from hurts, language, a particular adversary etc. but they also have come back after strength returns and re-engage in meaningful ways. But if we allow this to be a wet blanket on vigorous debate we won’t last a month. The key is to respect our adversary and I hope that we all learn to do this better in time. We need do better by leaving the ad hominems at home and deal with the issues under debate.

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22 thoughts on “Quo Vadis?”

I’ve been away helping those hit by recent landslides in the area – never rains but it pours, and come back to find what Joxer Daly called ‘a state of chassis’. I’m putting some thoughts together for tomorrow. I hope we can pull of of this tail spin.

Dave – I’ve enjoyed our discussions, but you can probably count me out. I’m not sure what purpose they serve. I know what I believe, you know what you believe, so does everybody else here. We can argue these things eloquently; we can put forward our points of view, but invariably these theological discussions have a dimension that isn’t so good.

In fact, whatever you or I believe is a private matter between us and our God; what counts is how it expresses itself – and there is a lot to be said for the old Salvation Army approach of the late 19th / early 20th century – what we do in terms of reaching out with a very basic gospel and practical assistance rather than dotting the i’s and crossing the t’s..

These discussions, while they have interest and entertainment value, don’t seem to show us up in a good light.

I sometimes think that God is a practical joker, who put Holy Scripture here to test us. Everybody has compelling arguments for points of view that appear to be diametrically opposite. They can’t all be right. The Good Lord gave us Holy Scripture to test us by seeing how we could handle disagreement.

I think those are all very valid thoughts, Jock. And yes, it is funny that the more one immerses themselves in faith, the more likely we are to have zeal which causes us untold spiritual problems externally with others and internally as well. I have struggled myself about making better use of my time. So I will watch, wait and see what I am disposed to do in the future. I just hate making this into a melodrama that self-destructs. I want to give it due consideration before I make a rash decision. At any rate Jock. I have come to know you better than I did in the past since your return and am happy for that. It is always a pleasure to cross swords with you . . . as you have always given me something to think about.

Dave, well said. I vote to stay also, but since Jessica seems not to be reading anything, I don’t know what good it will do. You well know I’m here because of you. You started teaching me about the Catholic faith in 2001, and it has not stopped. First it was with books, then tapes, then with apologetics, and always with long lunches and dinners discussing all we do here at AATW. When I started helping you teach RCIA and Inquiry classes it was a joy, largely because I had to think and study to be able to answer questions and point out truths of our faith in such a way that would help others.

Do you remember Richard and Lisa Chapman? She was a Catholic, Richard was a Protestant and somewhat defensive about joining the Church, but had agreed with Lisa to attend the Inquiry class. He was highly intelligent and had protestant answers for everything. He needed intellectual reasons to go forward. After almost 2 months of listening to him that summer, I gave him my copy of David Currie’s book Born Fundamentalist, Born Again Catholic. Within a week or so he was giving Catholic answers to his family and friends, then buying copies and handing them out. They started RCIA that September, had their first child in October, and he came into the Church that Easter. All because David Currie had taken the time to put in book form his answers to his family and friends.

You are correct, we had had many commenters here get angry or exhausted, only to return later. I hope it continues.

Yes God works through some very sorry excuses for instruments and I am always amazed when we (who draw such crooked lines) end up with a straight line once all is said and done. I do remember Richard and Lisa. They became very solid in their faith after a very difficult round of exchanges. Thanks be to God . . . and how that one thought of yours and the David Currie book performed a miracle in their lives.

Yes, she has. And that is my prayer, also. But from what she said to me, today, I very much doubt that she will post or comment in the near future. Someday, perhaps, but not soon. It pains me to convey such news but don’t think we should hold too much hope in the near future.

"I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend." J.R.R. Tolkien <br>“I come not from Heaven, but from Essex.” William Morris