There's a few things you guys need to keep in mind about conservative churches and porn that I haven't seen mentioned in the thread:

1. The root sin that churches condemn when it comes to porn is lust. The passage most often cited regarding lust is Matthew 5:27-30:

"You have heard that it was said, 'You shall not commit adultery.'But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart. If your right eye causes you to stumble, gouge it out and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to be thrown into hell. And if your right hand causes you to stumble, cut it off and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to go into hell.

The passage here is pretty clear that even recognizing a nice pair of legs walking down the street is a sin comparable to cheating on your wife. For denominations that place an emphasis on literalism and proof-texting, there really is no way for them to get past the idea that porn is inherently sinful, and that whatever you have to give up to remain pure is ultimately worth it. They're pretty much stuck with it.

2. This campaign against lust frequently encompasses not just porn, but masturbation in general - the reason being that for most people it's difficult or impossible to masturbate without at least fantasizing about something. This is also analogous to cheating on your wife (or future wife, or someone else's wife,) as per the Bible verses I mentioned, so whacking it is out too. One major function of the "Men's Groups" in churches like this is to act as the "fap police."

3. So now, you've got groups of young men with normal sex drives who you've convinced that porn and masturbation are grave evils that imperils their souls. You've told them over and over again that porn will destroy their marriages, ruin their ability to enjoy sex, and possibly endanger their salvation. (That last one is kind of theologically long-winded in Protestant churches, but the gist is that God gives a real Christian the power to avoid temptation and the desire to do so, so if you consistently fail it may be a sign you haven't given yourself over to God completely, so you might not really be SavedTM.)

Anyway, so you got these groups of young men who believe that porn is horrible, but they also have pretty typical desires and they see attractive women on TV or walking down the street just the same as the rest of us. What do these guys do? They masturbate, of course. They may go through great pains to avoid it, and will feel tremendous guilt afterwards and promise to never do it again, but in general they can't stop. So now that they see themselves in a cycle of continual relapse and repentance despite the fact that they believe that porn and masturbation are on par with stabbing their wives in the heart and spitting in God's face, it's not exactly difficult to convince them they're "addicted."

4. And, finally, if you've got an entire church full of women who've been taught from a young age that porn is analogous to being cheated on, when they discover that their boyfriend/husband watches porn or masturbates, they will feel as if they've been betrayed by a raging addict. This is not conducive to healthy relationships, so after dealing with a few disasters like this a pastor can semi-legitimately say that they've seen "so many" relationships "destroyed" by "porn addiction."

My point in this long-winded little diatribe is that the view that porn is a grave evil is mostly a self-fulfilling prophecy, but at the same time you're going to have a very difficult time convincing someone who believes this that the occasional digitally-enhanced fap session is not that big of a deal.

(Also, in a lot of churches like this the female sex drive is downplayed/ignored and the women's discussions of the topic don't get shared with the guys, so I'm actually not sure how much female masturbation and porn use are cracked down on. In general I can say it's viewed as a men's problem.)

It's almost as if looking at porn is a natural impulse that has been present and documented for thousands of years and this guy's oppressive inhibitions are more likely indicative of a mental health problem than any of his follower's "porn addictions".

Bucky Katt:Repo Man: themindiswatching: Maybe, just maybe, we should be fapping less often and spending more time with our SOs.

Some of us do not have, and will never have, an SO.

That is so sad.

I can't speak for him, but I am very happy to be single. I can sleep in on weekends, get drunk in the middle of the day (or for that matter, first thing in the morning) if I want to, skip shaving for a few days, wear whatever I want, fart without apologizing, and I always know exactly how much of the electric, water, and phone bills are my responsibility. Nobody else has access to my bank account. I can sit and read or goof off on Fark all day and nobody tells me I should be doing something else. My life is my own, and that's pretty great.

I understand that many people need others in order to feel happy, and that's fine for them, but I consider Fark to be all the social life I need or want.

Oldiron_79:rynthetyn: jaytkay: So badplasticsurgery.jpg or gaydar.gif?

Go with the plastic surgery one. The straight pastors preach against porn, the gay/bi ones preach against gays. Since he's ranting about porn, it means he's probably wanking it to the nastiest hardcore straight porn.

/whatever a pastor preaches against is his biggest temptation

IDK about your logic, I mean that would mean Carrie A. Nation was a total Farkette level Alcoholic.

That rule of thumb may not apply to other crusaders, but when it comes to pastors, I've never seen it not be true. The only possible exception would be the pastor who preached against alcohol after growing up with abusive alcoholic parents, but even that was still projecting his own issues on everyone else.

That may be true for you, and if it is, I envy you. While I realize there are worse things than being single, I love women, and I'd love to have a family. For me, trying to pretend otherwise would be like Aesop's The Fox and the Grapes. When I had a friend who lived nearby, I loved being "Uncle Repo Man" to his kids. His girls would hear my car coming up the street, and run out of the house and give me hugs. They were always happy to see me. No matter how crappy my day had been, a visit with them would make me feel much better. They really are like adopted family. Then they moved a couple of states away.

[i39.tinypic.com image 850x283]

So go get yourself a relationship. You're right at the age where a lot of people get divorced, so there are sure to be millions of divorcees looking for Mr. Right, or even Mr. Close Enough. Don't be embarrassed to hit the online dating sites either; they actually work. It might be too late to have kids of your own (if whoever you find is your age), but she might already have kids from a previous marriage, if you really want a family.

All I'm saying is feeling sad about what you don't have ain't gonna make your life easier. Figure out what you love doing, more than anything else, the one thing that you like the most, and do that a lot. You'll soon find yourself happy, doing what you love doing, and that's the biggest damned aphrodisiac in the world. Do you like hiking? Skiing? Reading? Cooking? Whatever you enjoy, do a lot of it (unless it's shooting heroin into your eyeballs or something like that) and make contact with others who enjoy the same things. Put that hobby in your online dating profile. It doesn't matter how strange others might think your hobby is; to someone out there, it's the coolest thing in the world. Find that person and you're golden.

enderthexenocide:one thing i hate is how anti-porn crusaders throw around the word "addiction." i suppose maybe .001% of porn watchers might actually be addicted and unable to stop, but the rest of us aren't.

"I haven't a particle of confidence in a man who has no redeeming petty vices whatsoever."- Mark Twain

Unfortunately, the entire concept of a "vice" (as a distinct concept from "addiction") is likely yet another casualty of the War On (some) Drugs.

Great Janitor:rev. dave: It is topics like this which he can be both technically right and practically wrong at the same time.Yes, addictions are bad and you should avoid them. But how much qualifies as an addiction? More than zero is not an answer.

Typically as most farker's do, ignore this guy because he has an Amish attitude towards technology.

There is only one person who I have ever met that I would say was a porn addict. I was in college, in my mid-20s living in the dorms. I was there for about a year and a half when this kid who's name I don't even remember any more (called him Monkey because of the way he'd act when he'd get pissed) moved into the dorm to start school. He was 18, fresh out of high school, first time away from mommy. He and I were in similar majors. Similar enough that I and a few of my friends had offered to help him with the basics that he was taking his first semester (we went through it, got A's, so why not help out those who need it?). He was a bit weird to begin with. Anyone who had offered him help with classes he avoided. He didn't socialize with anyone. Sometimes we wouldn't see him for days, just locked in his dorm room.

We later found out that he wasn't going to class. One day he told me that he didn't go to class because that morning there was a light drizzle, so he assumed class was canceled. But the night before, during a farking thunderstorm, hail and tornado watch he drove 30 miles to the porn shop to rent some movies. His roommate explained that he visited the porn shop more than he attended class and the only sounds he ever heard coming from Monkey's computer or television was the moaning from porn movies. No video game sounds, no television shows or regular movies, no silence either. By mid terms he had missed enough class that he wasn't going to pass anything. He didn't even know which professors were male or female. The week of mid terms he was moving out. Roommate laughed and told us about how his mother chewed ...

Sounds like his habit was interfering with other aspects of his life - which I'm pretty sure is actually when something becomes classified as an addiction.

Watching porn several times a day != addictionFlunking out of college because you never went to class in order to watch porn = addiction.Getting fired from your job because you keep leaving your desk to watch porn on your phone in the bathroom = addiction

/losing your marriage because your SO hates that you watch porn = you probably married the wrong person

It is topics like this which he can be both technically right and practically wrong at the same time.Yes, addictions are bad and you should avoid them. But how much qualifies as an addiction? More than zero is not an answer.

Typically as most farker's do, ignore this guy because he has an Amish attitude towards technology.

Another weakling who believes that, because he cannot resist a temptation, that all avenues to temptation should be destroyed. Misses the whole point of temptation - that resistance, not denial, is the point of the conflict. He would rather run away from the fight his God sets in front of him, terrified that he might lose, rather than face that fight.

" pornography's devastating effects on a man, his marriage, his home, his job and his leadership within the church."

What the hell kind of farked-up porn has this guy been watching? Double reverse cowgirl midget tranny ATM?

Also, isn't providing leadership within the church kinda that pastor's job? Everyone who said this guy is projecting his own inner shame onto the congregation is probably onto something.

Partaking of porn semi-regularly (or even daily) does not constitute an addiction. People go to work every day, but we don't say they're addicted to work - and they can't quit anytime they want, 'cause bills and kids and retirement.

themindiswatching:Maybe, just maybe, we should be fapping less often and spending more time with our SOs.

Maybe we should just stop judging men for fapping. We're visually stimulated, sexual pleasure is distinct from love or attachment, and our instincts tell us to mate with every female in the herd. So our options (even with an SO) are 1) fap to porn or 2) actually try to mate with every female in the herd, which is even more socially unacceptable.

I'm not gay, but I have this in common with gay men: feeling bad for who I am got old and busted a long time ago, so I quit doing it. I don't volunteer to my wife that I use porn, but she knows, and if she asks I'll tell her the truth. <popeye>I yam what I yam.</popeye>

JenFromTheWood:Repo Man: themindiswatching: Maybe, just maybe, we should be fapping less often and spending more time with our SOs.

Some of us do not have, and will never have, an SO.

How come?

I'm sure there are as many reasons as there are sad lonely men who have completely given up. Speaking for myself, the film The Forty Year Old Virgin was remarkably like seeing my life on the big screen, except for the happy ending part. And now I'm 47, and bald, and I only have a relatively modest income. I don't think I could get what I want, and I don't think I would want what I could get. Profile pic is from 1989, when I did briefly have a girlfriend. So, yeah.

Why is the emphasis on men and their sons? Women watch porn too. If he wants to do his followers a service he should counsel women on how watching porn with their husband can better their sex lives and their marriage.

Go with the plastic surgery one. The straight pastors preach against porn, the gay/bi ones preach against gays. Since he's ranting about porn, it means he's probably wanking it to the nastiest hardcore straight porn.

FTFAHe said that porn is a "weapon" that threatens "husbands, dads, fiancées and even church leaders." And warned that there was an "almost 100 percent chance that your son will be exposed to some type of pornography"

... would it be too much for him to express some concern over the effects that pornography might have on women?