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The plague invasion patch was removed just yesterday actually. For me it was a love/hate relationship. I hated having to deal with the plague zombies when I wanted to turn in a quest, but on the other hand, when I had no quests to turn in, killing flightmasters and all the npcs in a town with the plague was incredibly satisfying beyond words.

In any case, complaints about the talent trees belong to each respective class in my opinion. I could look up what to complain about, but as a levelling mage the new talent trees HARDLY affected the frost tree at all. No qualms here in any case.

My account with my 70 Rogue is inactive at the moment however, so I can't really report how the new changes in the talents affect high end arena play.

What?! They removed the plauge? Man, I haven't been on in two days, oh well it was annoying anyways.

I liked the new hair styles, and some of the new skills. The talent point thing bothered me though (I'm a mage in the arcane area and they added some new stuff and I couldn't choose between it and how my tree used to be) , and there were way too many restarts, they should've spent a little extra time to work out the program to make less bugs (I know harder than it sounds but not impossible a restart every half a day is rediculous in my opinion). I suppose it was really love hate for me as well.

I love the achievements though, I tried to get as many as possible right then and there.

I count the Zombie Infestation in the same category as Brewfest '07. Good idea, it works well and is fun, but leave it up to the wonderful userbase to take it to an illogical and borderline griefing extreme.

Everything else I approve of, aside from Retribution Paladins being able to heal comparable to me. That's just BULL CRAP, I may as well go mostly Ret with a few points into Holy.

First Blizzard and Starcraft rip off Warhammer and when Tyranids make it into DoW2 they crazed fan-boys are crying the Warhammer are copying Blizzard (Zerg/Tyranids, Space Marines/Space Marines, Protoss/Eldar - you have to bare in mind the Warhammer races were made in the early 1980's, way before Starcraft ever came out.) now Blizzard WoW rips off WAR.

First Blizzard and Starcraft rip off Warhammer and when Tyranids make it into DoW2 they crazed fan-boys are crying the Warhammer are copying Blizzard (Zerg/Tyranids, Space Marines/Space Marines, Protoss/Eldar - you have to bare in mind the Warhammer races were made in the early 1980's, way before Starcraft ever came out.) now Blizzard WoW rips off WAR.

Hurr hurr hurr, because seeing a good idea from a rival and implementing a version of it in your own game is sneaky and underhanded, and any new game or expansion of any sort in any game is not allowed to use anything from any of the potential market rivals, amirite?

No, it's called business. They didn't throw out a C&D at WAR to make them take Achievements out, they're just giving their userbase an incentive to stay with them by offering features similar to ones their rival found were well-recieved.

As for the implication that seige weaponry and a dedicated PvP zone was somehow "stolen" from Warhammer, three things:

1) The models for said seige weapons have been in the game since release, and they've always said they had planned to implement them somehow.

2) If PvP zones were stolen from Warhammer, Warhammer stole them from Guild Wars.

3) If seige weapons were stolen from Warhammer, controlling a single "hero" character in a world in which during previous iterations you control groups of people was stolen from WoW. GIVE US BACK SINGLE-UNIT GAMEPLAY, WARHAMMER. ZOMG CORPORATE ESPIONAGE.

Hurr hurr hurr, because seeing a good idea from a rival and implementing a version of it in your own game is sneaky and underhanded, and any new game or expansion of any sort in any game is not allowed to use anything from any of the potential market rivals, amirite?

No, it's called business. They didn't throw out a C&D at WAR to make them take Achievements out, they're just giving their userbase an incentive to stay with them by offering features similar to ones their rival found were well-recieved.

As for the implication that seige weaponry and a dedicated PvP zone was somehow "stolen" from Warhammer, three things:

1) The models for said seige weapons have been in the game since release, and they've always said they had planned to implement them somehow.

2) If PvP zones were stolen from Warhammer, Warhammer stole them from Guild Wars.

3) If seige weapons were stolen from Warhammer, controlling a single "hero" character in a world in which during previous iterations you control groups of people was stolen from WoW. GIVE US BACK SINGLE-UNIT GAMEPLAY, WARHAMMER. ZOMG CORPORATE ESPIONAGE.

Ignorance is always bliss, congrats for taking stupidity to the next level. <3

We can tell who the biased fan boy is.

#1 Siege Weapons were also used in others MMORPGS before WAR, Lineage II anyone? And I wasn't implying anything about them.
#2 Is wrong, Guild Wars does have zones, WAR has open RvR, learn the difference.
#3 I just don't even get, is that WoW or Warcraft RTS because you don't control hero units in WAR and DoW has to have them as that is part of the lore, which believe it or not the Warhammer lore has been around longer than Blizzard has been in business.

Not to mention the cooperative quests was another idea taken.

So Blizzard, already with a popular MMORPG with it's 10 million+ subscribers has to take ideas from another company who isn't even a threat? That shows they are even more pathetic. Blizzard had no plans to release any of these ideas, even the the WoTLK explansion beta none of this was included until WAR had been released. I don't think it's good business to steal others ideas it would be better if they came up with their own idea to try and better the competition but Jesus that is low of them. Now we got 10milion fans defending them hallelujah. Even Guild Wars would add something new and you would see that in the next WoW patch.

Last edited by Kishiro; 11-11-2008 at 04:11 PM.
Reason: Edited for language.

Most games use the ideas of others as reference and build up from that, not just take the idea and basically copy it. They turn something other people have thought up and make it something else by adding in something from their own creativity.

By the way you talk you would rather seem like a "biased fan boy".p

I admit I like Warhammer, but then again I like Warcraft also I just don't think it is fair, credit needs to given where it is due. I suppose if I take something you made and call it my own you wouldn't be upset or angry? Say a piece of art, or writing, or something you made/created. You also have to bare in mind the hours and time and effort people who actually put into developing these things only for someone else to slap their own brand name onto it and call it their own, must be frustrating.

I am not biased, just have around a decade of experience playing MMO's with a list of more than 20 different games =) Believe it or not it isn't the only MMO and there have been lots before it.

I do know about Warhammer, I did use to play/build/paint/collect them. But the whole lore existed before the Warcraft RTS game research and get some facts before hand please. Do you know a game called Dawn of War? If I remember correctly that isn't a table top game.

You're getting genre's mixed up, RPG's are not MMO's, you are not the center of the story, you are not the main hero, you are one person in a world with a large number of other players. The MMO story (if any) doesn't revolve around just yourself.

I don't care about the game not being squad based, that isn't the issue. Why do you keep trying to change the topic? I am not whining I am raising a point which you can't seem to understand or even be respectful enough to give me a valid argument. Instead of trying to turn this into a flame war go play with your Pokemons whilst I wait to hear someone elses opinion who probably will have something more valid to say.

I do know about Warhammer, I did use to play/build/paint/collect them. But the whole lore existed before the Warcraft RTS game research and get some facts before hand please. Do you know a game called Dawn of War? If I remember correctly that isn't a table top game.

Yes, and do you recall that Warcraft was on the video game market a decade before DoW was released? If I remember correctly 1994 came before 2004. In fact, as the industry lore tells it, Warcraft was originally a Warhammer game before the license was pulled, and since the game was mostly done they just pushed ahead and finished it with their own story.

This has nothing to do with who came first though, and my argument is and always has been that your position of "Blizz stole ideas from WAR tat's unfare lolz" is retarded.

You're getting genre's mixed up, RPG's are not MMO's, you are not the center of the story, you are not the main hero, you are one person in a world with a large number of other players. The MMO story (if any) doesn't revolve around just yourself.

Where did I say anything about RPGs and MMOs being the same or different? I am merely pointing out that Blizzard changed the perspective at which each player plays, and then WAR did the same after the fact. I am using your ridiculous logic and applying it to an equally ridiculous circumstance.

I don't care about the game not being squad based, that isn't the issue. Why do you keep trying to change the topic? I am not whining I am raising a point which you can't seem to understand or even be respectful enough to give me a valid argument. Instead of trying to turn this into a flame war go play with your Pokemons whilst I wait to hear someone elses opinion who probably will have something more valid to say.

Well considering that you linked two articles as evidence, anything they add in is fair game. If you'd bothered to read them, they spoke about Seige Engines being stolen from WAR, Achievements stolen from WAR, and even attempted to say they stoled WORLD PVP from WAR. If you disagree with the articles, why would you post them as support for your position without saying "by the way, these parts I don't agree with but they raise a valid point here?"

I'M attempting to turn this into a flame war? Weren't YOU the one that decided to label me as a biased fanboy? Now, to add to that, you're attempting to be dismissive by telling me to go play with my "Pokemons" while you sit here and wank over how awesome your opinion is.

I'm not saying that businesses don't take ideas from other businesses. I'm saying the exact opposite, in fact. I'm saying it's commonplace and really isn't looked down upon until you actually do something to stop the other person from using their version of it. However, because someone's decided to point out that you've taken up an extreme point of view that's just a little crazy, they must be a blind fanboy who can't stick to the facts, amirite?

Lemme break it down into an analogy anyone could understand. Say we both draw pictures, and sell these pictures. You have been selling them for longer than I have, and have an established customer base. To attract customers of my own, I draw a picture of a bunny, we'll say the bunny is gray. People like this bunny, and may be persuaded to buy it. You, seeing that people like the bunny, also draw a bunny. Your bunny is, we'll say, brown.

My position is that unless you somehow try to stop me from selling my bunny, there is absolutely nothing wrong with drawing your brown bunny. It may even be better than my bunny, but that's for the people buying them to decide.

Your position, as I understand it and if I'm wrong feel free to correct me, is that my bunny was drawn first and you're a no good rotten cheating thieving scumbag for drawing a brown bunny, and doubly so because you were drawing first so you shouldn't NEED to draw bunnies.

I like how one of you is insulting the other for being ignorant, and when clearly proven wrong about person 1 being ignorant, person 2 results to petty insults like calling them vulgarities that aren't allowed on the site.

I reported the thread, I hope you enjoy your third or fourth banning there, Black. I forget what the number is, but I know it's around there.

I'm not saying that businesses don't take ideas from other businesses. I'm saying the exact opposite, in fact. I'm saying it's commonplace and really isn't looked down upon until you actually do something to stop the other person from using their version of it. However, because someone's decided to point out that you've taken up an extreme point of view that's just a little crazy, they must be a blind fanboy who can't stick to the facts, amirite?

Lemme break it down into an analogy anyone could understand. Say we both draw pictures, and sell these pictures. You have been selling them for longer than I have, and have an established customer base. To attract customers of my own, I draw a picture of a bunny, we'll say the bunny is gray. People like this bunny, and may be persuaded to buy it. You, seeing that people like the bunny, also draw a bunny. Your bunny is, we'll say, brown.

My position is that unless you somehow try to stop me from selling my bunny, there is absolutely nothing wrong with drawing your brown bunny. It may even be better than my bunny, but that's for the people buying them to decide.

Your position, as I understand it and if I'm wrong feel free to correct me, is that my bunny was drawn first and you're a no good rotten cheating thieving scumbag for drawing a brown bunny, and doubly so because you were drawing first so you shouldn't NEED to draw bunnies.

That is exactly my point, Blizzard has already built a fan-base and quite a large and successful one at that. So why do they need take the 'bunny' from another up-coming title? It has taken points of the other game which separates it from others, so instead of it being different people will now label it as a WoW clone when it wasn't the case. The fact is WAR had these concepts and ideas implemented before WoW and WoW only recently added its patch, only cause of the release of WAR some month or so ago that those features of the patch got added, before hand there was no plans to do so. So in this case Mythic had drawn the first bunny, WoW drew the brown bunny but does have the large fan-base. Can you see what I am getting at?

Yes, and do you recall that Warcraft was on the video game market a decade before DoW was released? If I remember correctly 1994 came before 2004. In fact, as the industry lore tells it, Warcraft was originally a Warhammer game before the license was pulled, and since the game was mostly done they just pushed ahead and finished it with their own story.

I do know Warcraft was released before DoW. You said Warhammer was just a table top game so I just mentioned DoW but also table top Warhammer is also a strategy be it a turn based one a strat non the less.

I got nothing against WoW, I play it, I like it, I just don't like people who take things especially when it's one of the major selling points of another product. Also with the fan-boy thing, I didn't specifically target you it was a more generalized labeling. Surely someone as smart as you wouldn't take offense from that?

Also leave your name if you bad rep, it's kinda cowardly don'cha think?

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I like how one of you is insulting the other for being ignorant, and when clearly proven wrong about person 1 being ignorant, person 2 results to petty insults like calling them vulgarities that aren't allowed on the site.

I reported the thread, I hope you enjoy your third or fourth banning there, Black. I forget what the number is, but I know it's around there.

If you don't have anything constructive to say about it then don't spam please, as someone who used to be a mod I would've expected something a bit more from you.

But in response you are thinking of Deathscythe who got banned a few times, myself, none. There hasn't been anything wrong done here, we are just having a discussion is all. Nothing wrong with both of us trying to get our points across is there? Last time I checked this was a public forum right?

That is exactly my point, Blizzard has already built a fan-base and quite a large and successful one at that. So why do they need take the 'bunny' from another up-coming title? It has taken points of the other game which separates it from others, so instead of it being different people will now label it as a WoW clone when it wasn't the case. The fact is WAR had these concepts and ideas implemented before WoW and WoW only recently added its patch, only cause of the release of WAR some month or so ago that those features of the patch got added, before hand there was no plans to do so. So in this case Mythic had drawn the first bunny, WoW drew the brown bunny but does have the large fan-base. Can you see what I am getting at?

I do know Warcraft was released before DoW. You said Warhammer was just a table top game so I just mentioned DoW but also table top Warhammer is also a strategy be it a turn based one a strat non the less.

I got nothing against WoW, I play it, I like it, I just don't like people who take things especially when it's one of the major selling points of another product. Also with the fan-boy thing, I didn't specifically target you it was a more generalized labeling. Surely someone as smart as you wouldn't take offense from that?

Also leave your name if you bad rep, it's kinda cowardly don'cha think

First off, I wasn't the one that bad repped you. I would have been MUCH more clever with the response I left if I had. I'm going to take a wild guess and say it was Forsaken One or Cantelope, based on how it's written.

Second, I don't take offense to being called a fanboy when you're ignorant of the point I'm trying to make, however I wasn't the one that was "starting a flame war" and I was pointing out that you were the one calling names.

Third, I still hold my position that your argument is silly, and I maintain my argument that WAR has stolen from WoW by taking a game that was originally played with multiple units and shrunk the perspective down to a single soldier purely to offer a dissenting, equally ridiculous opinion. It seems we are at an impasse, and so I'm content with letting it die.

Third, I still hold my position that your argument is silly, and I maintain my argument that WAR has stolen from WoW by taking a game that was originally played with multiple units and shrunk the perspective down to a single soldier purely to offer a dissenting, equally ridiculous opinion. It seems we are at an impasse, and so I'm content with letting it die.

The RTS was squad-based much like the tabletop game(just with added resource management), the MMO is a change of perspective from this, as the player is controlling a single soldier in the army as opposed to the entire army.

The preceding sentence can be easily applied to both DoW/WAR and Warcraft/WoW, just remove the tabletop mention for WoW.

First off, I wasn't the one that bad repped you. I would have been MUCH more clever with the response I left if I had. I'm going to take a wild guess and say it was Forsaken One or Cantelope, based on how it's written.

Well just to say i was not the one who bad reped you but now i did since you oh so acted stupidly and not asked a mod or anything but just took a blind guess.I would also not insult or anything since it is not my style.You know you don't need to post in a thread to be able to bad rep.