As for the KoP, since it was given to people like Karma a lot, you'd think you have to be really, really good and, like, not lose a case for a whole year to get the trophy. Edgey getting it seems kind of... off.

You do realise that Manfred was arrested for the murder of Gregory Edgeworth, right? So they can't exactly give it to him.

As for the KoP, since it was given to people like Karma a lot, you'd think you have to be really, really good and, like, not lose a case for a whole year to get the trophy. Edgey getting it seems kind of... off.

You do realise that Manfred was arrested for the murder of Gregory Edgeworth, right? So they can't exactly give it to him.

She means that there are likely more worthy prosecutors than the one who had a lose streak. But what she doesn't realize is that Manfred is the exception... that all other prosecutors lose cases on a regular basis. It's likely that Edgeworth only lost his cases against Phoenix and won all other cases that happened off screen. Considering that, it's only natural Edgeworth would get the award

Click here for the Gyakuten Saiban vs Ace Attorney Translation Project Blog!Various official AA stuff translations currently in the works.

Also, click here for the current archive of fanfiction or here for the backup archive. Click here for the blog that updates it.Includes translations of misc. fan works related or not to AA.Also, a very popular fanfic ask meme.

As for the KoP, since it was given to people like Karma a lot, you'd think you have to be really, really good and, like, not lose a case for a whole year to get the trophy. Edgey getting it seems kind of... off.

You do realise that Manfred was arrested for the murder of Gregory Edgeworth, right? So they can't exactly give it to him.

She means that there are likely more worthy prosecutors than the one who had a lose streak. But what she doesn't realize is that Manfred is the exception... that all other prosecutors lose cases on a regular basis. It's likely that Edgeworth only lost his cases against Phoenix and won all other cases that happened off screen. Considering that, it's only natural Edgeworth would get the award

If I might add onto that: as my memory recalls, the award was given by the police, or was at least held by them. Also, Gant seemed to be taunting Edgeworth quite a bit about the trophy, which suggests that he only got the trophy to be spited by Gant, who would have control of it being Chief of Police. If this was already said, I'm sorry....

If you need a defense attorney, come talk to me! I just...can't take any cases that are in real life...it has to be on Miiverse. But I'm a justice-seeking warrior who wins every time, like Mr. Fine over there! Well, as long as you're not guilty. In Justice We Trust!

So I've had this theory bouncing around for a while: I believe that the original series ended after game 3... and that games 4, 5 & 6 are actually an alternate and darker timeline where Phoenix fails in 2-4. Let me explain.

Spoiler:

Phoenix's story clearly ended after game 3 and AJ took him and made him into a completely different character. Hobo Phoenix seems so much different than the Phoenix Wright that we know, he shows much less regard for the law and is willing to create an entire new system, just to get him off the hook for his disbarment.

DD introduced the whole "Dark Age of The Law" idea, which spoke about the corruption of the legal system, although that seemed to be nothing but business as usual in the Ace Attorney world.Finally AA6 we have Phoenix's reunion with Maya, who hasn't seen her close friend in over 8 years - seems like quite a long time for a close friend.

The answer? All of this is happening to a different Phoenix than the one we know. Think back to 2-4. Maya has been kidnapped, Edgeworth and Phoenix are working together to extend the trial just long enough for a miracle to occur... until one happens and saves the day. But there's also another possibility. If you fail to present the right evidence to de-killer, then the miracle doesn't occur, Engarde gets off, Maya gets set free - and Phoenix runs away. My theory is that it's that Phoenix who is the true star of games 4, 5 & 6.

Phoenix did't just simply run away. He became what he most despised - a demon attorney. One who would do anything to win, no matter the truth. The trial caused all of people closest to him to turn away. Maya, Pearls, Mia and Edgeworth. Maya could never speak to to him for getting Engarde off the hook. Edgeworth felt betrayed that Phoenix would let the killer free. No one could stand the new Phoenix, and watch as he sunk deeper and deeper into the darkness, even making acquaintances with a certain "Coolest attorney in the west", who shared his ideals.

However, that attorney was also his downfall. And when he got him disbarred (it was all to easy, they had been trying to get Phoenix Wright for years) Phoenix had nothing. Nothing except for Trucy & soon Apollo. It was Apollo who helped phoenix not just from a murder conviction, but also by seeing the value of the truth. When Apollo slapped him for presenting forged evidence Phoenix was surprised that there were still honest attorneys out there. Apollo's 'Justice' showed Phoenix the light and helped him get back on the path of truth and justice

Click here for the Gyakuten Saiban vs Ace Attorney Translation Project Blog!Various official AA stuff translations currently in the works.

Also, click here for the current archive of fanfiction or here for the backup archive. Click here for the blog that updates it.Includes translations of misc. fan works related or not to AA.Also, a very popular fanfic ask meme.

Phoenix did't just simply run away. He became what he most despised - a demon attorney. One who would do anything to win, no matter the truth. The trial caused all of people closest to him to turn away. Maya, Pearls, Mia and Edgeworth. Maya could never speak to to him for getting Engarde off the hook. Edgeworth felt betrayed that Phoenix would let the killer free. No one could stand the new Phoenix, and watch as he sunk deeper and deeper into the darkness, even making acquaintances with a certain "Coolest attorney in the west", who shared his ideals.

However, that attorney was also his downfall. And when he got him disbarred (it was all to easy, they had been trying to get Phoenix Wright for years) Phoenix had nothing. Nothing except for Trucy & soon Apollo. It was Apollo who helped phoenix not just from a murder conviction, but also by seeing the value of the truth. When Apollo slapped him for presenting forged evidence Phoenix was surprised that there were still honest attorneys out there. Apollo's 'Justice' showed Phoenix the light and helped him get back on the path of truth and justice

I think the issue I have is how Phoenix returned to the courts. The way your story plays out after he lost Maya he went on a dark path and started doing everything to get the verdict he wanted. However I don't feel this is reflected in the flashback case in the mason system. The Phoenix we see there is undoubtedly much the same as we've always seen him, without any meaningful character change the likes of which you are proposing.

I could believe Hobo!Nick had come from the dark past but Hobo!Nick still got disbarred and when he got disbarred he appeared to be Nick as usual.

Made by Chesu+Zombee

You thought you could be safe in your courts, with your laws and attorneys to protect you. In this world only I am law, my word is fact, my power is absolute.

Before I answer the many (many) questions let me take it a few steps further:

This is how the theory actually makes the Dual Destinies story much better.

Spoiler:

Let's start at the beginning: Phoenix getting his badge back, or to be more accurate - Edgeworth helping him get his badge back.The obvious question is what was Edgeworth's motivation. The story would lead you to believe that Edgeworth had this elaborate plan to fight the DAotL by drawing out the phantom and proving Blackquill innocent of murder.

The alternate timeline theory is actually much simpler: Why? because Phoenix's former view of the justice system is the cause of the DAotL. Think back to 2-4. In one of the greatest conversations in the AA series, Edgeworth tells Phoenix that everyone deserves a proper defense, which leads to this:

Phoenix - "is it where a lawyer forcibly and blindly gets an acquittal through shouting and trickery"Edgeworth - "isn't that how you have fought for all your clients up until now"Phoenix - "That's because i've believed that my clients to be innocent"

This isn't just Edgeworth pointing out Phoenix's hypocrisy, it's a battle of philosophies. Classic Phoenix knew where to draw the line, Dark Phoenix does not. He believes that the end justifies the means and defense attorneys should do anything to get their clients off. Sounds like a certain professor?

In this timeline the reason Edgeworth helps Phoenix get his badge back is so he can show everyone that he was wrong. The ends do not justify the means.

Speaking of a Aristotle Means. Something always bothered me about the case. Means entire way of hiding the body was as a statue of Phoenix Wright. Why Phoenix? Granted the pointy hair works pretty well as hands, but still, he didn't have much time to come up with something, yet his best idea was a statue of Phoenix Wright. It's because Means actually respects him and his methods. Phoenix would do whatever it takes and Aristotle Means agrees. To him, Dark Phoenix is a hero, worthy of having a statue (or dead body representative).

Finally. We come to the Phantom. The character we've been trying to draw out the entire game doesn't have a face. In fact the final battle is against the persona of Dark Phoenix. And the only one who can defeat him is Phoenix, Apollo & Athena. DP uses every little technicality in the book, and the team manages to prove his guilt. This isn't just a battle against a nameless foe, this is a fight for the soul of the legal system.

Dual Destinies is Phoenix' redemption story. It's how he goes back to being the lawyer we love.

I couldn't figure out exactly where I should put this but considering what I'm thinking, this is probably the best place. In Turnabout Goodbyes, there was a shop name called the Wet Noodle. In Turnabout Storyteller, a shop was entitled Whet Noodle. Considering how long generations last and how the Whet Noodle is on its 4th owner, I propose the following.

Spoiler: Turnabout Goodbyes

Yani Yogi created the Wet Noodle as a knockoff of Whet Noodle, in order to make others take in his "dazed old man" guise even more.

If you need a defense attorney, come talk to me! I just...can't take any cases that are in real life...it has to be on Miiverse. But I'm a justice-seeking warrior who wins every time, like Mr. Fine over there! Well, as long as you're not guilty. In Justice We Trust!

Phoenix did't just simply run away. He became what he most despised - a demon attorney. One who would do anything to win, no matter the truth. The trial caused all of people closest to him to turn away. Maya, Pearls, Mia and Edgeworth. Maya could never speak to to him for getting Engarde off the hook. Edgeworth felt betrayed that Phoenix would let the killer free. No one could stand the new Phoenix, and watch as he sunk deeper and deeper into the darkness, even making acquaintances with a certain "Coolest attorney in the west", who shared his ideals.

However, that attorney was also his downfall. And when he got him disbarred (it was all to easy, they had been trying to get Phoenix Wright for years) Phoenix had nothing. Nothing except for Trucy & soon Apollo. It was Apollo who helped phoenix not just from a murder conviction, but also by seeing the value of the truth. When Apollo slapped him for presenting forged evidence Phoenix was surprised that there were still honest attorneys out there. Apollo's 'Justice' showed Phoenix the light and helped him get back on the path of truth and justice

I think the issue I have is how Phoenix returned to the courts. The way your story plays out after he lost Maya he went on a dark path and started doing everything to get the verdict he wanted. However I don't feel this is reflected in the flashback case in the mason system. The Phoenix we see there is undoubtedly much the same as we've always seen him, without any meaningful character change the likes of which you are proposing.

I could believe Hobo!Nick had come from the dark past but Hobo!Nick still got disbarred and when he got disbarred he appeared to be Nick as usual.

Adding onto that, there's still the issue that

Spoiler: Farewell, My Turnabout

Phoenix, during the bad ending, said he never came back to the courts after Engarde was acquitted, meaning he couldn't have been there for the Gramarye trial in the first place.

If you need a defense attorney, come talk to me! I just...can't take any cases that are in real life...it has to be on Miiverse. But I'm a justice-seeking warrior who wins every time, like Mr. Fine over there! Well, as long as you're not guilty. In Justice We Trust!

Before I answer the many (many) questions let me take it a few steps further:

This is how the theory actually makes the Dual Destinies story much better.

Spoiler:

Let's start at the beginning: Phoenix getting his badge back, or to be more accurate - Edgeworth helping him get his badge back.The obvious question is what was Edgeworth's motivation. The story would lead you to believe that Edgeworth had this elaborate plan to fight the DAotL by drawing out the phantom and proving Blackquill innocent of murder.

The alternate timeline theory is actually much simpler: Why? because Phoenix's former view of the justice system is the cause of the DAotL. Think back to 2-4. In one of the greatest conversations in the AA series, Edgeworth tells Phoenix that everyone deserves a proper defense, which leads to this:

Phoenix - "is it where a lawyer forcibly and blindly gets an acquittal through shouting and trickery"Edgeworth - "isn't that how you have fought for all your clients up until now"Phoenix - "That's because i've believed that my clients to be innocent"

This isn't just Edgeworth pointing out Phoenix's hypocrisy, it's a battle of philosophies. Classic Phoenix knew where to draw the line, Dark Phoenix does not. He believes that the end justifies the means and defense attorneys should do anything to get their clients off. Sounds like a certain professor?

In this timeline the reason Edgeworth helps Phoenix get his badge back is so he can show everyone that he was wrong. The ends do not justify the means.

Speaking of a Aristotle Means. Something always bothered me about the case. Means entire way of hiding the body was as a statue of Phoenix Wright. Why Phoenix? Granted the pointy hair works pretty well as hands, but still, he didn't have much time to come up with something, yet his best idea was a statue of Phoenix Wright. It's because Means actually respects him and his methods. Phoenix would do whatever it takes and Aristotle Means agrees. To him, Dark Phoenix is a hero, worthy of having a statue (or dead body representative).

Finally. We come to the Phantom. The character we've been trying to draw out the entire game doesn't have a face. In fact the final battle is against the persona of Dark Phoenix. And the only one who can defeat him is Phoenix, Apollo & Athena. DP uses every little technicality in the book, and the team manages to prove his guilt. This isn't just a battle against a nameless foe, this is a fight for the soul of the legal system.

Dual Destinies is Phoenix' redemption story. It's how he goes back to being the lawyer we love.

Spoiler:

For me, the biggest issue is that no one really cares/reminds Phoenix of it. For example, Maya is thrilled to see Phoenix in SOJ and even wrote him the letter in DD. For the "never saw her again moniker, it just doesn't fit in. And the MASON system was (mostly) built with good intentions, but if Phoenix was a dark lawyer up until Apollo slapped him, then that doesn't make sense either.

Phoenix did't just simply run away. He became what he most despised - a demon attorney. One who would do anything to win, no matter the truth. The trial caused all of people closest to him to turn away. Maya, Pearls, Mia and Edgeworth. Maya could never speak to to him for getting Engarde off the hook. Edgeworth felt betrayed that Phoenix would let the killer free. No one could stand the new Phoenix, and watch as he sunk deeper and deeper into the darkness, even making acquaintances with a certain "Coolest attorney in the west", who shared his ideals.

However, that attorney was also his downfall. And when he got him disbarred (it was all to easy, they had been trying to get Phoenix Wright for years) Phoenix had nothing. Nothing except for Trucy & soon Apollo. It was Apollo who helped phoenix not just from a murder conviction, but also by seeing the value of the truth. When Apollo slapped him for presenting forged evidence Phoenix was surprised that there were still honest attorneys out there. Apollo's 'Justice' showed Phoenix the light and helped him get back on the path of truth and justice

I think the issue I have is how Phoenix returned to the courts. The way your story plays out after he lost Maya he went on a dark path and started doing everything to get the verdict he wanted. However I don't feel this is reflected in the flashback case in the mason system. The Phoenix we see there is undoubtedly much the same as we've always seen him, without any meaningful character change the likes of which you are proposing.

I could believe Hobo!Nick had come from the dark past but Hobo!Nick still got disbarred and when he got disbarred he appeared to be Nick as usual.

Adding onto that, there's still the issue that

Spoiler: Farewell, My Turnabout

Phoenix, during the bad ending, said he never came back to the courts after Engarde was acquitted, meaning he couldn't have been there for the Gramarye trial in the first place.

Spoiler:

By never coming back to the courts he could mean "never coming back to the courts as himself, rather a shadow of himself

Thunder84 wrote:

BlueCorp wrote:

Before I answer the many (many) questions let me take it a few steps further:

This is how the theory actually makes the Dual Destinies story much better.

Spoiler:

Let's start at the beginning: Phoenix getting his badge back, or to be more accurate - Edgeworth helping him get his badge back.The obvious question is what was Edgeworth's motivation. The story would lead you to believe that Edgeworth had this elaborate plan to fight the DAotL by drawing out the phantom and proving Blackquill innocent of murder.

The alternate timeline theory is actually much simpler: Why? because Phoenix's former view of the justice system is the cause of the DAotL. Think back to 2-4. In one of the greatest conversations in the AA series, Edgeworth tells Phoenix that everyone deserves a proper defense, which leads to this:

Phoenix - "is it where a lawyer forcibly and blindly gets an acquittal through shouting and trickery"Edgeworth - "isn't that how you have fought for all your clients up until now"Phoenix - "That's because i've believed that my clients to be innocent"

This isn't just Edgeworth pointing out Phoenix's hypocrisy, it's a battle of philosophies. Classic Phoenix knew where to draw the line, Dark Phoenix does not. He believes that the end justifies the means and defense attorneys should do anything to get their clients off. Sounds like a certain professor?

In this timeline the reason Edgeworth helps Phoenix get his badge back is so he can show everyone that he was wrong. The ends do not justify the means.

Speaking of a Aristotle Means. Something always bothered me about the case. Means entire way of hiding the body was as a statue of Phoenix Wright. Why Phoenix? Granted the pointy hair works pretty well as hands, but still, he didn't have much time to come up with something, yet his best idea was a statue of Phoenix Wright. It's because Means actually respects him and his methods. Phoenix would do whatever it takes and Aristotle Means agrees. To him, Dark Phoenix is a hero, worthy of having a statue (or dead body representative).

Finally. We come to the Phantom. The character we've been trying to draw out the entire game doesn't have a face. In fact the final battle is against the persona of Dark Phoenix. And the only one who can defeat him is Phoenix, Apollo & Athena. DP uses every little technicality in the book, and the team manages to prove his guilt. This isn't just a battle against a nameless foe, this is a fight for the soul of the legal system.

Dual Destinies is Phoenix' redemption story. It's how he goes back to being the lawyer we love.

Spoiler:

For me, the biggest issue is that no one really cares/reminds Phoenix of it. For example, Maya is thrilled to see Phoenix in SOJ and even wrote him the letter in DD. For the "never saw her again moniker, it just doesn't fit in. And the MASON system was (mostly) built with good intentions, but if Phoenix was a dark lawyer up until Apollo slapped him, then that doesn't make sense either.

Spoiler:

Honestly, that's problematic even in the regular continuity. Phoenix's whole disbarment is completely swept under the rug without a barely a second thought.

But, speaking of SOF, here is how it would actually improve the story:

Spoiler:

SOJ gets a bit of flack for not doing anything new with Maya. Maya gets accused of murder in a locked room mystery? Check Maya gets kidnapped? Check. However, it's not that they couldn't figure out anything new to do with her, it's rather that the entire point was to retread JFA and ultimately give Phoenix the chance to get a second chance to do the right (wright) thing.

Case 3 is all about retreading 2-2. We're in a foreign land. Maya is performing a ritual when a murder happens.Spirit Channeling plays a huge role in the caseThe murder is done to cover up another incident

However the real retread is the first half of case 5, and this is done brilliantly. You play as Apollo and see Phoenix acting incredibly strange and have to phase off against him in court. And we see an incredibly desperate Phoenix who is just barely grasping onto straws, until we find out the truth: Maya has been kidnapped and it's up to Apollo to help save Maya and Phoenix. First of all we're seeing 2-4 again, but from the other side (this is probably how Edgeworth felt during 2-4). But now, Phoenix is exactly back to where he was all those years ago. maya is in trouble and he is stuck defending an obviously guilty person with one of the flimsiest defenses around. The only difference is that instead of Edgeworth, who is the personification of Pursuit of the truth, and is the complete opposite of Phoenix, Phoenix is up against his own pupils, who have completely embodied his own ideals of fighting for your client, now matter what. And that's why Apollo is able to help Phoenix, where Edgeworth could not.

Finally, when you look at the reveal that not only is maya completely untouchable, through Dhurke, she was really safe the entire time.

Before I answer the many (many) questions let me take it a few steps further:

This is how the theory actually makes the Dual Destinies story much better.

Spoiler:

Let's start at the beginning: Phoenix getting his badge back, or to be more accurate - Edgeworth helping him get his badge back.The obvious question is what was Edgeworth's motivation. The story would lead you to believe that Edgeworth had this elaborate plan to fight the DAotL by drawing out the phantom and proving Blackquill innocent of murder.

The alternate timeline theory is actually much simpler: Why? because Phoenix's former view of the justice system is the cause of the DAotL. Think back to 2-4. In one of the greatest conversations in the AA series, Edgeworth tells Phoenix that everyone deserves a proper defense, which leads to this:

Phoenix - "is it where a lawyer forcibly and blindly gets an acquittal through shouting and trickery"Edgeworth - "isn't that how you have fought for all your clients up until now"Phoenix - "That's because i've believed that my clients to be innocent"

This isn't just Edgeworth pointing out Phoenix's hypocrisy, it's a battle of philosophies. Classic Phoenix knew where to draw the line, Dark Phoenix does not. He believes that the end justifies the means and defense attorneys should do anything to get their clients off. Sounds like a certain professor?

In this timeline the reason Edgeworth helps Phoenix get his badge back is so he can show everyone that he was wrong. The ends do not justify the means.

Speaking of a Aristotle Means. Something always bothered me about the case. Means entire way of hiding the body was as a statue of Phoenix Wright. Why Phoenix? Granted the pointy hair works pretty well as hands, but still, he didn't have much time to come up with something, yet his best idea was a statue of Phoenix Wright. It's because Means actually respects him and his methods. Phoenix would do whatever it takes and Aristotle Means agrees. To him, Dark Phoenix is a hero, worthy of having a statue (or dead body representative).

Finally. We come to the Phantom. The character we've been trying to draw out the entire game doesn't have a face. In fact the final battle is against the persona of Dark Phoenix. And the only one who can defeat him is Phoenix, Apollo & Athena. DP uses every little technicality in the book, and the team manages to prove his guilt. This isn't just a battle against a nameless foe, this is a fight for the soul of the legal system.

Dual Destinies is Phoenix' redemption story. It's how he goes back to being the lawyer we love.

Spoiler:

For me, the biggest issue is that no one really cares/reminds Phoenix of it. For example, Maya is thrilled to see Phoenix in SOJ and even wrote him the letter in DD. For the "never saw her again moniker, it just doesn't fit in. And the MASON system was (mostly) built with good intentions, but if Phoenix was a dark lawyer up until Apollo slapped him, then that doesn't make sense either.

Spoiler:

Honestly, that's problematic even in the regular continuity. Phoenix's whole disbarment is completely swept under the rug without a barely a second thought.

But, speaking of SOF, here is how it would actually improve the story:

Spoiler:

SOJ gets a bit of flack for not doing anything new with Maya. Maya gets accused of murder in a locked room mystery? Check Maya gets kidnapped? Check. However, it's not that they couldn't figure out anything new to do with her, it's rather that the entire point was to retread JFA and ultimately give Phoenix the chance to get a second chance to do the right (wright) thing.

Case 3 is all about retreading 2-2. We're in a foreign land. Maya is performing a ritual when a murder happens.Spirit Channeling plays a huge role in the caseThe murder is done to cover up another incident

However the real retread is the first half of case 5, and this is done brilliantly. You play as Apollo and see Phoenix acting incredibly strange and have to phase off against him in court. And we see an incredibly desperate Phoenix who is just barely grasping onto straws, until we find out the truth: Maya has been kidnapped and it's up to Apollo to help save Maya and Phoenix. First of all we're seeing 2-4 again, but from the other side (this is probably how Edgeworth felt during 2-4). But now, Phoenix is exactly back to where he was all those years ago. maya is in trouble and he is stuck defending an obviously guilty person with one of the flimsiest defenses around. The only difference is that instead of Edgeworth, who is the personification of Pursuit of the truth, and is the complete opposite of Phoenix, Phoenix is up against his own pupils, who have completely embodied his own ideals of fighting for your client, now matter what. And that's why Apollo is able to help Phoenix, where Edgeworth could not.

Finally, when you look at the reveal that not only is maya completely untouchable, through Dhurke, she was really safe the entire time.

Spoiler:

Honestly, Maya is that one character that just won't fucking die. Not that I want her to, but she should join the military as a SEAL because no one can kill her, period.

Click here for the Gyakuten Saiban vs Ace Attorney Translation Project Blog!Various official AA stuff translations currently in the works.

Also, click here for the current archive of fanfiction or here for the backup archive. Click here for the blog that updates it.Includes translations of misc. fan works related or not to AA.Also, a very popular fanfic ask meme.

I made up a solid theory when I was just barely awake this morning: Everyone in all AA-games are called Nick. Phoenix, the only one to be referred to as Nick in the games, is all the others personality traits combined and boiled down. So he's a super-Nick; the essence of being a Nick, and the very bare bones of being a Nick simultaneously.

Click here for the Gyakuten Saiban vs Ace Attorney Translation Project Blog!Various official AA stuff translations currently in the works.

Also, click here for the current archive of fanfiction or here for the backup archive. Click here for the blog that updates it.Includes translations of misc. fan works related or not to AA.Also, a very popular fanfic ask meme.

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