UrGod wrote:Leftists assume personal irresponsibility as the default position, therefore it makes perfect sense to a leftist that people should not be allowed to own guns. Leftists do not see adults, they see only weird hybrids of man-children, millennials with man buns and ironic T-shirt’s living with their parents, spending their time between Facebook, Snapchat and Starbucks.

That is how leftists see humanity. So obviously leftists can’t possibly frame any of these issues correctly. Leftism as an ideology actively militates against even the possible existence of adulthood, i.e. mature self-responsible and free citizenry.

Absolutely.

I wonder how much the death of God has to do with this. Obviously he didn't die on he right, but the Left really struggles with it, they do everything to keep themselves mental and moral children, to erect whatever pompous murdering figurehead presents itself to them above all of us, just to not have to actually exist.

Maybe we should just claim to be God, and take it all over.

How is liberalism inherently more theistic than conservativism?More liberals are atheists than conservatives.How're libertarian, or conservative principles more antithetical to theism than authoritarian, or liberal ones (emphasis on: or, as I already pointed out, authoritarianism isn't anymore compatible with liberalism than conservatism)?

You might say worshipping God is akin to worshipping the state, and authoritarians worship the state, that is to say they surrender their sovereignty to it.But that's only the case if the state isn't a democracy, and you're not the dictator or an oligarch.If it's a partly or fully authoritarian democracy, than you're as much exercising your authority over others as they're exercising their authority over you, and if you're a member of the majority, and the authoritarian democracy is solely exercising its authority over minorities, like the rich, than you're not relinquishing your ethical, intellectual, psychological or material autonomy at all, in fact, it'd be a kind of slavery to libertarianism to not exercise your authority over others, when it benefits you (and your values).

Any ideology, philosophy or ism you surrender your will to, is a kind of, theism.No ism can be fully aligned with our will, as our will, and life is dynamic.And we're all different.I'd say if libertarianism mostly appeals to you, because it aligns with your sense of fairness, and/or you think you stand to benefit from it, than fine, but for others, it doesn't align with their sense of fairness, and/or they don't think they stand to benefit from it, and for them, it'd be akin to worshipping a God, or a disembodied set of commandments, to subscribe to it, to give themselves over to something totally alien to their being.

Yup, the slippery slope is what bothers me most. They take, er, I mean, we give up some liberties and get acclimated to it, then we give up some more and get acclimated and so on.

And then it sets precedent. "Well we've banned assault rifles, and this situation X isn't much different, so let's ban X." It's impossible to know all the consequences.

But the underlying cause of violence will still remain even though a means of expression has been removed. The kids will find new ways to vent that are perhaps less destructive, but perhaps more frequent, and the death toll would continue to climb, just in less cinematic displays. I don't see how removing the means of ventilation will relieve pressure.

Leftists do not talk about the real causes of violence, either in general or specifically to individual incidents like a school shooting, because leftists are idiots. Focusing on guns is a way of distracting you from the fact they have literally nothing to say.

UrGod wrote:Leftists do not talk about the real causes of violence, either in general or specifically to individual incidents like a school shooting, because leftists are idiots. Focusing on guns is a way of distracting you from the fact they have literally nothing to say.

Ah shit, I don't like the gun control thing but the comfortable left-blaming so perfectly fits in the real power structures giggle glee it needs to be called on. And Rightists hate big government until there is a false flag or hallucinated enemy war - ususally with someone who used to be an ally of at least the CIA - and then they happily watch trillions shifted from personal bank accounts to places like Halliburton. Rightists happily confuse the freedom of corporations - whose charters used to be seen as 1) priviledges and 2) revocable - as somehow the same as the freedom of individuals, and who extends this into 3) freedom for banks and wall street not seeing how this actually crimps human freedoms. Rightists thought leftists were faggy US haters when they pointed out how US foreign policty undermined the lives, democracy and freedoms of people in other countries AND STILL CANNOT ADMIT the connection to how this is happening domestically to US citizens, now that the same elite no longer needs US citizens to be comfy any more. Sure the left has fucked up all over the place. So has the right. And every times you get all smug and simple and aim hate at one, you are playing the stupid checkers games that the people in power want you to play. Further, you're not taking responsibility for your own weaknesses and what you have done.

There is a direct correlation between increasing leftism in American society and increase in violent incidents like school shootings. Families get hollowed out by cultural Marxism, communities get devastated by neoliberalism, schools can no longer educate people due to forced indoctrination programs and political correctness and the hyper-litigious nature of this leftist society we live in, not to mention administrative bloat and union bloat in the education system which is sucking away most of the funds that should be spent on actually educating people and paying teachers who actually do their jobs, rather than coddling the shit teachers who do not give a fuck but happen to have tenure so know they cannot be fired.

And if anyone acts out or has a problem with any of that, obviously they’re a deplorable, so just shame them or give them a bottle of psychopills. Rising cult of victimhood, Orwellian political correctness, poverty and decimation of the middle class under leftist and neoliberal programs, and pharmakillers in the “medical” industry pushing a million different kinds of pills to distort people’s brains in the hope of making them “comfortably numb”. Yeah, I only wonder why there aren’t even more shootings and violence.

Leftists used to understand these things, they actually used to stand up for real earthy human values and for rational free discourse on issues like this... not anymore. The Left has steadily decayed on the one hand into a rabid mass of Orwellian virtue signaling mob agitators, extreme cultural Marxist tyranny, and on the other hand into subservient passive little sell out corporate neoliberal drones.

What a disgrace to the tradition of the real left. Not that it was ever that great to begin with, but it did serve an important role as an exteriority and check against tyranny, and as an expanding space of free rational inquiry. Left used to at least ostensibly stand for freedom.... now it stands for nothing but slavery and mindrape, and is quite proud of this.

Last edited by URUZ on Sun Feb 25, 2018 2:30 pm, edited 3 times in total.

UrGod wrote:Leftists do not talk about the real causes of violence, either in general or specifically to individual incidents like a school shooting, because leftists are idiots. Focusing on guns is a way of distracting you from the fact they have literally nothing to say.

Ah shit, I don't like the gun control thing but the comfortable left-blaming so perfectly fits in the real power structures giggle glee it needs to be called on. And Rightists hate big government until there is a false flag or hallucinated enemy war - ususally with someone who used to be an ally of at least the CIA - and then they happily watch trillions shifted from personal bank accounts to places like Halliburton. Rightists happily confuse the freedom of corporations - whose charters used to be seen as 1) priviledges and 2) revocable - as somehow the same as the freedom of individuals, and who extends this into 3) freedom for banks and wall street not seeing how this actually crimps human freedoms. Rightists thought leftists were faggy US haters when they pointed out how US foreign policty undermined the lives, democracy and freedoms of people in other countries AND STILL CANNOT ADMIT the connection to how this is happening domestically to US citizens, now that the same elite no longer needs US citizens to be comfy any more. Sure the left has fucked up all over the place. So has the right. And every times you get all smug and simple and aim hate at one, you are playing the stupid checkers games that the people in power want you to play. Further, you're not taking responsibility for your own weaknesses and what you have done.

I’m not a “rightist” and never claimed to be. So not sure if any of this was supposed to apply to me, or what?

UrGod wrote:There is a direct correlation between increasing leftism in American society and increase in violent incidents like school shootings. Families get hollowed out by cultural Marxism, communities get devastated by neoliberalism, schools can no longer educate people due to forced indoctrination programs and political correctness and the hyper-litigious nature of this leftist society we live in, not to mention administrative bloat and union bloat in the education system which is sucking away most of the funds that should be spent on actually educating people and paying teachers who actually do their jobs, rather than coddling the shit teachers who do not give a fuck but happen to have tenure so know they cannot be fired.

Oh, please, I'm old. They never could educate people. Texas would veto every fucking history and social studies book because the rightests there could not face some known facts about history, let alone religious rightism. In my day rightist ideas about discipline and teacher authority and the three rs and no sex and all that stuff created a creativity deadening learn by rote teach people NOT to question authority cog in a machine production line. Morons creating morons. Forced indoctrination has been the rule, period. And what would now be considered right wing political correctness was the rule also. Eveyrone running around calling people fags, teaching each other not to have any emotions except anger and confidence, conforminism and cut out figure ideas of what it is to human or male or female. Now the shoes on the other foot and it is just as stupid. Morons with no idea what a human is giving out rules and using shame from the right and now guilt from the left to put people in little boxes of each kind of political correctness. Fuck that shit. LIving in a dream world. Look at the fuckers from the 50s and 60s in photos and films of the time, documentaries. Stiff cardboard humans who could barely breathe.

Nostalgia based on ZERO experience.

That is how everyone is taught to think. One, figure out if this is a Right thing or a Left thing. Then I know if I am for it or not. Then when the other group was in charge of the political correctness it was, is or will be bad, when my team was it was good. Fuck that, your all human haters. You all want people to climb in little stiff boxes and just because your box is different from their box, well they are all stiff little boxes to me.

And if anyone acts out or has a problem with any of that, obviously they’re a deplorable, so just shame them or give them a bottle of psychopills. Rising cult of victimhood, Orwellian political correctness, poverty and decimation of the middle class under leftist and neoliberal programs, and pharmakillers in the “medical” industry pushing a million different kinds of pills to distort people’s brains in the hope of making them “comfortably numb”. Yeah, I only wonder why there aren’t even more shootings and violence.

Well, if the fucking right wing would allow people to be critical of pharma, maybe we could cut through that bullshit. But no, they have every right to control congress with lobbying, control media through pressure from advertising money etc. No, the right have nothing to do with the powerful interests that are diagnosing and selling psychotropics to every fucking person. Give me a break. Of course the left is involved in that two since you are both human haters, one of you running on shaming the other on guilt, neither knows how to deal with emotions.

Leftists used to understand these things, they actually used to stand up for real earthy human values and for rational free discourse on issues like this... not anymore. The Left has steadily decayed in the one hand into a rabid mass of Orwellian virtue signaling mob agitators, extreme cultural Marxist tyranny, and on the other hand into subservient passive little sell out neoliberal drones.

What a disgrace to the tradition of the real left. Not that it was ever that great to begin with, but it did serve an important role as an exteriority and check against tyranny, and as an expanding space of free rations inquiry. Left used to at least ostensibly stand for freedom.... now it stands for nothing but slavery and mindrape.[

Well, I appreciate that you can see soemthing in the left, even if it also was in some golden age that never was. The left had insights into corporate power abuse and foreign policy evils, the right has had healthier skepticism of government power - in some ways. There are other positives and both have been royally fucked up.

I wish people would get away from these terms and actually watch, feel, think about what is happening.

But everyone seems to want a team. Human, but there are no teams, not for humans, at that level of generality. At that level you just have take you pick human hater ideologies.

You’re stuck in the matrix of black vs white, right vs left dichotomous thinking. Your entire approach to the ideas I’ve raised is basically “Oh yeah well look how bad the Right is!!” as if that has anything to do with anything I’m saying, which it doesn’t.

Yes you bring up some good critiques of the right, I’m not really a fan of the right either. But society isn’t shifted to the right anymore, it has taken a hard shift to the left. The only thing slowing that progression toward more leftism is the inertia of the more right-oriented cultural past in America, but in the next generation or two you’re going to see the impact of that inertia decline substantially.

If you need to start talking about how bad the right is as soon as I bring up points against the left, then you’re not being honest. We could also talk about how stupid the right can be, I’m fine with that. But this topic was more about leftism, and since leftism is the default “new normal” now, it makes sense to discuss leftism on its own terms.

Also, the political categories of left vs right aren’t even that meaningful anymore. As Parodites was saying, these categories are being supplanted by a new paradigm and set of categorical polarities: 1) globalist vs nationalist, and 2) statist vs non-statist. The intersection of wherever you fall on those two polarities is going to determine your political positions and outlook.

The right is pretty stupid much of the time, and the left has become a rabid decaying goo before our eyes. So I talk about how insane the left is because it is insane now, and leftism basically controls directly or indirectly anywhere from 75% to 95% of the western world now in terms of culture, academia, education, entertainment, employment, and even politics (the center has shifted left, in Europe especially but also in America, so that even a “center right” politician is basically agreeing to a large degree of leftist thinking).

The only certain and vital function of left and right has been as a check against the abuses of power of the other, to basically swing the pendulum back the other direction when things get too out of hand. That’s why we have this dichotomous breakdown. It’s useful in his way. But ideology has taken over, first it took over the right in the 80s and 90s and now it’s taken over the left.

Maybe you mean the omission of you actually telling me what apparently I am "omitting". Or your other glaring omissions to actual respond to even a single one of the points I've made regarding leftism, either in its virulent cultural Marxist SJW hate mob virtue signaling form or its subservient globalist corporatocratic neoliberal shill form.

-Religion (if you want to consider this an institution.. and Catholicism is swinging more and more left)-Talk radio (again, not really an institution)-Military (although leftists are making intrusions here too, e.g. transgender politics)

So you go ahead and try to say that society is not swinging hard left on almost all important issues and in almost all important sectors. The 'center' is now firmly on the left; Trump is just a reactionary effect of the dominance of leftism in almost all areas of American life, again as I already said this is due to the inertia from the past, which is slowly dissipating over time. Of course you decline to comment on any of these things.

But no, let's just keep talking about stupid bible thumpers in Texas, yeah I'm sure that will advance the discussion

Be very careful what you say on Facefuck and Twatter guys as you might just get a knock on your door.....

"We see you've been making some threatening posts on the internet, you're coming with us to the station to be booked."

The temple mount will be rebuilt in Jerusalem and all the nations of the world will be ruled from there. All races, cultures, leaders, and nations will come to bow before the new messiah yet to come. All will come to know the chosen of God who refer themselves as Jews. For every Jew there will be a thousand goyim that will be their slaves as it was ordained by God. Every man, woman, and child will convert to Zionism.

Just got done reading the New York Times article, "The Boys Are Not Alright." written by Michael Ian Black.

It's so obvious now that the toxic primarily white male patriarchy is causing all of the gun shootings across the United States after reading that article. We need to start socially reengineering young boys at an early age to curb any possible inkling of social or societal defiance. It's the only way we can be sure that our societies remain safe.

The temple mount will be rebuilt in Jerusalem and all the nations of the world will be ruled from there. All races, cultures, leaders, and nations will come to bow before the new messiah yet to come. All will come to know the chosen of God who refer themselves as Jews. For every Jew there will be a thousand goyim that will be their slaves as it was ordained by God. Every man, woman, and child will convert to Zionism.

UrGod wrote:Take your stupid trolling elsewhere. I am reporting this above troll post so it can be removed from my topic.

The temple mount will be rebuilt in Jerusalem and all the nations of the world will be ruled from there. All races, cultures, leaders, and nations will come to bow before the new messiah yet to come. All will come to know the chosen of God who refer themselves as Jews. For every Jew there will be a thousand goyim that will be their slaves as it was ordained by God. Every man, woman, and child will convert to Zionism.

And so if they do pass so-called mental hygiene laws for gun ownership, what about mental hygiene laws within the military itself?

Well, that's the problem when you have the C.I.A., Homeland Security, and other government agencies we've probably never even heard about in charge of news media across the country, you just never can tell truth from lies or vice versa. It becomes increasingly difficult to separate fiction from non fiction especially carefully crafted fiction. Nonetheless it doesn't matter as the damage is done and most cannot think independently on their own to discern anything that is being presented to them. Most news in the United States is carefully crafted for the majority of dumbfounded idiots that makes the bulk of our population for public consumption that graces our upstanding great nation.

Also, I can't stress enough for people to look into controlled opposition, to be sure you cannot trust mainstream media but think of this also, do you really believe that they don't control alternative news sources either? When I read anything from anywhere I take everything with a grain of salt assuming that everything is controlled where an agenda is being formed. There really is no safe source of information from anywhere, once you understand all of that the better off you will become.

The temple mount will be rebuilt in Jerusalem and all the nations of the world will be ruled from there. All races, cultures, leaders, and nations will come to bow before the new messiah yet to come. All will come to know the chosen of God who refer themselves as Jews. For every Jew there will be a thousand goyim that will be their slaves as it was ordained by God. Every man, woman, and child will convert to Zionism.

UrGod wrote:There is a direct correlation between increasing leftism in American society and increase in violent incidents like school shootings. Families get hollowed out by cultural Marxism, communities get devastated by neoliberalism, schools can no longer educate people due to forced indoctrination programs and political correctness and the hyper-litigious nature of this leftist society we live in, not to mention administrative bloat and union bloat in the education system which is sucking away most of the funds that should be spent on actually educating people and paying teachers who actually do their jobs, rather than coddling the shit teachers who do not give a fuck but happen to have tenure so know they cannot be fired.

Oh, please, I'm old. They never could educate people. Texas would veto every fucking history and social studies book because the rightests there could not face some known facts about history, let alone religious rightism. In my day rightist ideas about discipline and teacher authority and the three rs and no sex and all that stuff created a creativity deadening learn by rote teach people NOT to question authority cog in a machine production line. Morons creating morons. Forced indoctrination has been the rule, period. And what would now be considered right wing political correctness was the rule also. Eveyrone running around calling people fags, teaching each other not to have any emotions except anger and confidence, conforminism and cut out figure ideas of what it is to human or male or female. Now the shoes on the other foot and it is just as stupid. Morons with no idea what a human is giving out rules and using shame from the right and now guilt from the left to put people in little boxes of each kind of political correctness. Fuck that shit. LIving in a dream world. Look at the fuckers from the 50s and 60s in photos and films of the time, documentaries. Stiff cardboard humans who could barely breathe.

Both you guys make good points. The lefties want to ban guns and the righties want to ban fun. Clowns to the left of me and jokers to the right:

I can have all the guns I want, but by god I can't buy beer on sunday

I can't mow the lawn while drinking or I'll get a dui.

I have to run the gauntlet of dui checkpoints on the way to walmart so the gestapo can be sure I haven't been drinking.

Yeah I guess I feel marginally safer with all the drunks off the road, but my odds weren't that great of being in a accident anyway and the monster is far worse for me having the cops constantly looking for someone to harass in between donuts. And the kicker is people still die from dui. How much inconvenience must I endure to ensure my safety?

OMG don't get caught with a joint or you're screwed. $1000 fine right off the bat and all professional licenses gone. A big hit to the permanent record so forget future job opportunities. One joint can cost your life, but at least you have your guns. Oh wait, nope, drug users can't have guns.

I think my life would be impacted less severely if the left were in charge. Yeah I may lose my gun rights, but I could hide them and they're too stupid to find them. As a bonus the righteous preachers would get off my ass. Single mothers could find work for a decent wage. Old people could afford to buy their meds. Bernie wasn't perfect, but I was ready to give it a go, but they HAD to put cankles on the ticket.

^^^True story, Bernie Sanders and his wife are being investigated by the F.B.I. for fraud, look it up.

The temple mount will be rebuilt in Jerusalem and all the nations of the world will be ruled from there. All races, cultures, leaders, and nations will come to bow before the new messiah yet to come. All will come to know the chosen of God who refer themselves as Jews. For every Jew there will be a thousand goyim that will be their slaves as it was ordained by God. Every man, woman, and child will convert to Zionism.

I see your point, but I'm as ballsy as they come, yet have a sense of right, wrong, and fairness. I've camped in the wilderness by myself with bears looking at me. I blast through the woods at 60mph with no helmet. I say its the opposite... people who don't play fair are too scared to play fair. If the warrior really had balls, he wouldn't be a warrior because he'd have no fear to underpin the persona necessary to be a warrior. The art of intimidation: tattoos, piercings, shaved heads, rough talk, etc. All that exists to instill fear because they are afraid of what might happen if they didn't. So maybe the people in prison are the most scared among us.

I forgot who it was who said, "To discern what your enemy fears, see what means he uses to scare you." Something like that.

Well it's a combination, for some it may be a sense of fairness that keeps them from turning to a life of crime, for others it may be fear, but prisoners relatively lack both.While it takes courage to be fair, in the sense that you'll suffer greater losses if others aren't also being fair, firstly, you can still be wise, and fair, not lower your guard, and secondly, people who're unfair to the point of breaking the law usually end up in jail, unless they're wealthy, lucky or cunning and they take small amounts over long periods of time, so in other words: you don't have as much to fear from their unfairness.It's easier to play fair when you have the law protecting you from the worst injustices, like robbery, rape and murder, people can commit, but if the law wasn't there to protect you, like you suddenly found yourself in a survival situation, you might think, well if I don't sneak up on him, and get him first, he might just sneak up on me, and get me.

Last edited by Gloominary on Wed Feb 28, 2018 4:54 pm, edited 3 times in total.

Stefan proved that wrong in the video I posted, which is counter-intuitive. Poverty and crime are inversely correlated. -0.57. I think what is correlated to poverty is suicide and drug use. If you feel hopeless, are you going to shoot someone else or yourself?

So a sense of entitlement from a prosperous society engenders violence. People don't know what it's like to actually starve and think hate speech is the biggest deal. It's not a feeling of hopelessness, but a feeling of righteousness, which leads to violence. Stefan correlates crime to broken families, r=.98 or so.

From my research, and experience, poverty is at least correlated with blue collar property crime, if not violent crime too.People who're more likely to commit property crime, are more likely to commit violent crime, and people who're more likely to take illicit drugs, are more likely to commit crime, so Stefan's statistics don't exactly make sense.

It could be that people who choose to arm themselves also choose to stand on their own feet and therefore have a sense of integrity, not entitlement.

It could also be they've made loads of money, from exploiting poor people for a long time, hiring illegal aliens, shipping jobs overseas, replacing workers with machines, making them increasingly expendable, overpricing, underpaying, cartels, corporate welfare, fine print, fraud, tax loopholes, usury, polluting lakes, rivers and on and on, and they have nightmares of angry mods/peasants lynching/looting them, so they need to sleep with a gun underneath their pillow at night.