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I'm in total agreement with you on this. When I purchased my subscription during "The sky is falling" fiasco that was the 2013 Club Eternia service, I understood that I only had knowledge of a few figures I was purchasing. I was also aware that I'd get some figures I didn't care for like NA, and I also knew that there'd be the occasional painted bicep(Fisto) or painted hands like we saw with Prince Adam, King Randor, and Count Marzo. They KNEW we didn't care much for painted hands but it wasn't a big deal since there were only a handful of figures with them.

There was no way to know that Matty would flip the script and suddenly start pumping out painted over black plastic figures that chip right out of the package, not to mention that some of them look REALLY unsightly at the shoulder hinge even when they don't chip. Look no further than Vykron. All of this started to show up AFTER we had purchased our 2013 subscription!

They withheld their intentions to get cheap with the price increase so I will not lose any sleep over letting my card expire.

this is the best answer we could ever give to them.omg i wish i was in your shoes! everything is getting so doubtful,stressful...
today i'm pretty sure on the future of this "yet til now wonderful line" and i can say black plastic matter have definitely buried it.

I completely disagree. Say nothing, or quit talking about it before it is resolved, and nothing will happen. Mattel and Scott will see that as an excuse to let it be absorbed into the QC abyss.

How many QC issues are now just accepted because we finally gave up on them? Too bad for you if your Snout Spout has a broken trunk, or your Goddess has no legs. Things get changed because dissatisfaction is voiced. All of the complainer-complainers should THANK the 'whingers' for being the ones who have created change wherever it has happened (i.e. Faceless One's hood).

Originally Posted by He-Dude

What you and many others don't seem to understand is that they have BORDERLINE, at best, interest in continuing this line as it is... if you get a bad figure... have the patience to go through customer sevice to have it resolved... or have another incomplete MOTU collection!! T

What have I said in my quote that made you lump me into that group? I’ve had nightmare experiences with Matty – you don’t need to tell me how pathetic their service is. Are you saying that we should let them off easy and just shut up? I don’t understand your point.

So because you were told that Stinkor was a design issue it must be true? It couldn’t possibly be a creative way to cover up yet ANOTHER stuff up from someone who is not allocating enough resources or time to QC.

Originally Posted by cbomb23

And why do people continue to buy products that have "problems" after four years? From people they don't think do a good job or like? Maybe if all the unhappy customers quit buying product they feel is inferior or just bad the line would be over and none of these problems would exist and some would be much happier?

Originally Posted by cbomb23

Or if you are unhappy with the product don't buy it?

Why should there be only two choices. Buy it and accept it without question or don’t buy it. What about the option to buy something that isn’t 100% while voicing an opinion on how it could be improved?

Originally Posted by cbomb23

But he is the Brand Manager, not the Plant manager, not the Distribution manager, not in control of every aspect of the product. He doesn't get to make vendor decisions, distribution/website decisions, materials decisions, etc. he is not the president or CEO, he is simply the Brand manager, most of these other decisions are made by upper management through contracts that Scott probably has little to no say in. He has to work within the constraints of the company and what his bosses dictate.

While this is not incorrect, there are plenty of examples where Scott is directly responsible for at least some of the issues – some of which he has now owned up to.

A brand manager is responsible for ensuring the success of the brand. That involves looking after the customers. We are the customers. If issues are raised and he has no control over fixing them, don’t promise to fix them.

Let’s look at the reversed parts issues (shoulders, arms, legs). Is this only happening on Classics or other Mattel lines? I would like to think that Mattel would reconsider using a factory that kept making errors on all of their lines. If it’s only an issue for Classics, why is that? Is the factory not getting the right message? Is anyone even checking the samples? The fact that these errors are happening means that the process is broken somewhere. I can guarantee you that Scott knows where that break is. If he’s promising to fix it then that suggests that the fix is within his control. So why does it keep happening?

I have a question for anyone who is complaining about the complainers, what are you hoping to achieve? You’re certainly not helping to fix issues. Is it that you don’t want to read people’s complaints? Shouldn’t you just accept them, just as you’re asking the complainers to accept their QC issues? Are you aware that you’re ‘killin teh org’ just as much as the complainers.

Why should there be only two choices. Buy it and accept it without question or don’t buy it. What about the option to buy something that isn’t 100% while voicing an opinion on how it could be improved?

I couldn't agree more! I've been saying this for months too... only to be shot down

Originally Posted by He-Boy

If issues are raised and he has no control over fixing them, don’t promise to fix them.

Yep. No wonder nothing's changed!

Originally Posted by He-Boy

I have a question for anyone who is complaining about the complainers, what are you hoping to achieve? You’re certainly not helping to fix issues. Is it that you don’t want to read people’s complaints? Shouldn’t you just accept them, just as you’re asking the complainers to accept their QC issues? Are you aware that you’re ‘killin teh org’ just as much as the complainers.

It was a reaction on He-Dude's comment, who said we had to put up with QC troubles or Heaven forbid we'll have another incomplete collection. I don't agree with that. I thought my point was rather obvious ...

Originally Posted by cbomb23

These figures are not made anymore "cheaply" than in previous years or any other comparable line.

I don't know much about the industry, but seeing that they used to mold the pieces in the right colour and now they are casting predominantly in black and painting over it, I can't help but thinking that's a cost-reducing measure.

Truth be told, I have only a handful of figures from other lines (some McFarlane and Neca stuff) yet they all arrived in perfect condition, no messy paint apps, no misassembly, no signs of discolouring or deterioration whatsoever. Of course, I know that's not representative by a longshot, but again, I didn't compare MOTUC to other lines in the first place.

Originally Posted by cbomb23

Then the line dies. I don't know why people would continue to spend disposable income on items that people are not happy with? It's a line that should be enjoyed not something that should bring this much stress.

Simply because people love MOTU and are naive enough to believe that things might improve. But the love for the property can only go so far, if they continue using black plastic for 2013, I'm canceling my subscription. I don't care how great the Horsemen's sculpts are, if the detail is obscured by layers of goopy paint, which will undoubtedly flake over time, these figures aren't worth spending my hard-earned money on anymore.

Originally Posted by shadowfall1976

that is how I feel about MOTUC and the lame ass black painted plastic, there is a really big cheapness to them now in my opinion, and I am really regretting getting my sub, but my card renews in Jan, so if I feel the figures are not to my liking, for the increasingly outrageous prices wanted for these things, I will not renew my card on Matty. I will collect my last 3 figures (Ram-Man included) and be done.

Same here, mine goes in june but if the black plastic nonsense continues, it might get 'misplaced' a little sooner.

"A knight is sworn to valor. His heart knows only virtue. His blade defends the helpless. His word speaks only truth. His wrath undoes the wicked."

It was a reaction on He-Dude's comment, who said we had to put up with QC troubles or Heaven forbid we'll have another incomplete collection. I don't agree with that. I thought my point was rather obvious ...

I don't know much about the industry, but seeing that they used to mold the pieces in the right colour and now they are casting predominantly in black and painting over it, I can't help but thinking that's a cost-reducing measure.

Truth be told, I have only a handful of figures from other lines (some McFarlane and Neca stuff) yet they all arrived in perfect condition, no messy paint apps, no misassembly, no signs of discolouring or deterioration whatsoever. Of course, I know that's not representative by a longshot, but again, I didn't compare MOTUC to other lines in the first place.

Simply because people love MOTU and are naive enough to believe that things might improve. But the love for the property can only go so far, if they continue using black plastic for 2013, I'm canceling my subscription. I don't care how great the Horsemen's sculpts are, if the detail is obscured by layers of goopy paint, which will undoubtedly flake over time, these figures aren't worth spending my hard-earned money on anymore.

Same here, mine goes in june but if the black plastic nonsense continues, it might get 'misplaced' a little sooner.

it's been revealed lately via mattycollector forum,precisely about the 2013 sub,no way to cancel once you bought.

it's been revealed lately via mattycollector forum,precisely about the 2013 sub,no way to cancel once you bought.

No, Mattycollector doesn't provide you with an option to cancel, but they can't do a thing if you renew your creditcard and don't provide them with the new number. I agree that it's not a very moral thing to do, but since we are talking about TG and Mattel here, this won't trouble my conscience for a second.

"A knight is sworn to valor. His heart knows only virtue. His blade defends the helpless. His word speaks only truth. His wrath undoes the wicked."

I'd rather have an incomplete collection of qualitative figures instead of a complete collection of cheaply produced cost-cut trash.

I agree whole heartedly.

Originally Posted by cbomb23

Then the line dies. I don't know why people would continue to spend disposable income on items that people are not happy with? It's a line that should be enjoyed not something that should bring this much stress.

After my 2012 subscription ends I consider the line dead to me. I will pick up a very few select figures after that point.

Originally Posted by MasterCollector

Look no further than Vykron. All of this started to show up AFTER we had purchased our 2013 subscription!

They withheld their intentions to get cheap with the price increase so I will not lose any sleep over letting my card expire.

I believe it was a very deliberate move to secure the 2013 subscriptions BEFORE everyone got their hands on these black plastic figures.

"There's only one Master of the Universe and it's He-Man." - Stephen Colbert

"The heart has its reasons of which reason knows nothing." - Blaise Pascal

The black plastic is a cost saving move. They simply purchase the plastic that was miscolored and dye it completely black. This allows them to increase or sustain the profit margin they want to keep.

The pointing at Ruben is simply a misdirection. Maybe Ruben has some control over how the figure ends up, but I doubt he has control over the budget. This is simply Scott saying "don't blame me". Surprised he didn't bring out the "management's call" card again.

People coming to this thread and then reading it only to say "stop this discussion" need to get their head on straight and understand the point of a forum. As much as you have a right to keep saying "This line is the ROXORZ!", others have the right to say "Things need to change!".

And if anyone thinks I'm hiding behind a keyboard. My name is Jeremy and I will be at Power-Con and will say the same stuff to your face. People need to stop this BS of "I don't like this, so it shouldn't exist". If you don't like it, don't read it!

So because you were told that Stinkor was a design issue it must be true? It couldn’t possibly be a creative way to cover up yet ANOTHER stuff up from someone who is not allocating enough resources or time to QC.

That's what we were told, so yeah I believe it. I'm not really into conspiracy theories when it comes to toys.

Originally Posted by He-Boy

Why should there be only two choices. Buy it and accept it without question or don’t buy it. What about the option to buy something that isn’t 100% while voicing an opinion on how it could be improved?

While this is not incorrect, there are plenty of examples where Scott is directly responsible for at least some of the issues – some of which he has now owned up to.

A brand manager is responsible for ensuring the success of the brand. That involves looking after the customers. We are the customers. If issues are raised and he has no control over fixing them, don’t promise to fix them.

Let’s look at the reversed parts issues (shoulders, arms, legs). Is this only happening on Classics or other Mattel lines? I would like to think that Mattel would reconsider using a factory that kept making errors on all of their lines. If it’s only an issue for Classics, why is that? Is the factory not getting the right message? Is anyone even checking the samples? The fact that these errors are happening means that the process is broken somewhere. I can guarantee you that Scott knows where that break is. If he’s promising to fix it then that suggests that the fix is within his control. So why does it keep happening?

I have a question for anyone who is complaining about the complainers, what are you hoping to achieve? You’re certainly not helping to fix issues. Is it that you don’t want to read people’s complaints? Shouldn’t you just accept them, just as you’re asking the complainers to accept their QC issues? Are you aware that you’re ‘killin teh org’ just as much as the complainers.

Never said it was only 2 choices, but the fact that there have been QC issues for "four years" would probably tell you that what we've been getting for the last 4 years is the product we are going to continue to get? And plenty of suggestions have helped the line softer plastic on loin cloths for better posability, tighter joints for better stability, making of missing accessories, and more.

And about the swapped shoulders how many even notice this when they look at Hssss or Roboto? I know what I notice about Hssss is the disappointing Snake sculpt. As far as other swapped parts I heard some DCUC had swapped Biceps, and Martian Manhunters had the wrong smaller Biceps on some figures, although I've never noticed it (but my DCUC are MOC)? And without the message boards probably would have never noticed the swapped shoulders on Hssss or Roboto. Heck I didn't realize there was a hidden key in Scareglow's Reliqury until years later (I got into MOTUC in April 2010) after looking at some old SDCC pictures, and just realized Soundwave from my childhood had the back battery compartment to hold his weapons which transformed into batteries (while watching a reveiw of a knockoff Soundwave)!

Originally Posted by Crusader

It was a reaction on He-Dude's comment, who said we had to put up with QC troubles or Heaven forbid we'll have another incomplete collection. I don't agree with that. I thought my point was rather obvious ....

Sorry wasn't obvious to me, didn't see it as an answer to the quote, just thought you were calling MOTUCs recent figures "cheaply produced cost-cut trash".

Originally Posted by Crusader

I don't know much about the industry, but seeing that they used to mold the pieces in the right colour and now they are casting predominantly in black and painting over it, I can't help but thinking that's a cost-reducing measure.

Truth be told, I have only a handful of figures from other lines (some McFarlane and Neca stuff) yet they all arrived in perfect condition, no messy paint apps, no misassembly, no signs of discolouring or deterioration whatsoever. Of course, I know that's not representative by a longshot, but again, I didn't compare MOTUC to other lines in the first place.

Simply because people love MOTU and are naive enough to believe that things might improve. But the love for the property can only go so far, if they continue using black plastic for 2013, I'm canceling my subscription. I don't care how great the Horsemen's sculpts are, if the detail is obscured by layers of goopy paint, which will undoubtedly flake over time, these figures aren't worth spending my hard-earned money on anymore.

Well I don't know much about the production or assembly of the figures either, but we've been getting painted parts through the whole line. And just maybe Mattel had already purchased an abundance of black plastic, and the vendor asked or Mattel asked the vendor to paint these instead of getting other materials? They looked at samples of the painted parts and Design thought that color looks good, that'll work. But using it on joints caused paint rub revealing the underneath black plastic color that people are upset about.

I know I picked up a Hasbro Iron Man Legends Crimson Dynamo that had atrocitious paint apps but I bought it because it was the 1st time I'd seen the figure and didn't think I'd see it again. The Hasbro Marvel Legends Nemesis Build a figure hood continually cracks at the hinge. I have the 8" Lion-O and Tygra and these have miscolored joints, and overall look very plastic as the paint job isn't impressive, and the black wash on the SDCC Lion-O is scary bad. And these are just a couple examples and again most of my figures are MOC. I also collect Marvel Legends, DCUC, Marvel Universe, Star Wars, McFarlane Sportspicks (which are basically small plastic statues), Marvel Select, DC Direct (Collectibles),and GI Joe regularly.

I just think MOTUC is scrutinized much more than anything comparable in the market. While expecting a perfect figure at a higher standard is nice it's probably just not realistic. To me Masters is the highest quality figure that Mattel produces with more accessories than any other Mattel action figure out there.

I know I picked up a Hasbro Iron Man Legends Crimson Dynamo that had atrocitious paint apps but I bought it because it was the 1st time I'd seen the figure and didn't think I'd see it again. The Hasbro Marvel Legends Nemesis Build a figure hood continually cracks at the hinge. I have the 8" Lion-O and Tygra and these have miscolored joints, and overall look very plastic as the paint job isn't impressive, and the black wash on the SDCC Lion-O is scary bad. And these are just a couple examples and again most of my figures are MOC. I also collect Marvel Legends, DCUC, Marvel Universe, Star Wars, McFarlane Sportspicks (which are basically small plastic statues), Marvel Select, DC Direct (Collectibles),and GI Joe regularly.

I just think MOTUC is scrutinized much more than anything comparable in the market. While expecting a perfect figure at a higher standard is nice it's probably just not realistic. To me Masters is the highest quality figure that Mattel produces with more accessories than any other Mattel action figure out there.

Sounds like you are OK buying badly constructed/painted toys; the rest of the world doesn't have to feel the same way. I'm glad you are happy with your toys; not everyone is. Isn't free will fun.

it's been revealed lately via mattycollector forum,precisely about the 2013 sub,no way to cancel once you bought.

Not on Matty, but your card getting cancelled has a lot of power to stop it.

Originally Posted by FAKER II

I believe it was a very deliberate move to secure the 2013 subscriptions BEFORE everyone got their hands on these black plastic figures.

I believe that to be a possibility, I said that a while back.

Originally Posted by Lookie

The pointing at Ruben is simply a misdirection. Maybe Ruben has some control over how the figure ends up, but I doubt he has control over the budget. This is simply Scott saying "don't blame me". Surprised he didn't bring out the "management's call" card again.

At this point no one would believe it's management, they mainly tell Scott, this or this related to financing, but materials used are due to design head & the Brand Manager, Scott has much more say over the line than he recently makes it out to have....That would be like me typing a news column, then telling the editor of the paper, this is it, I want red ink, on black paper, no changes are needed....in real life the editor would laugh then fire or demote me.

Originally Posted by cbomb23

Never said it was only 2 choices, but the fact that there have been QC issues for "four years" would probably tell you that what we've been getting for the last 4 years is the product we are going to continue to get? And plenty of suggestions have helped the line softer plastic on loin cloths for better posability, tighter joints for better stability, making of missing accessories, and more.

And about the swapped shoulders how many even notice this when they look at Hssss or Roboto? I know what I notice about Hssss is the disappointing Snake sculpt. As far as other swapped parts I heard some DCUC had swapped Biceps, and Martian Manhunters had the wrong smaller Biceps on some figures, although I've never noticed it (but my DCUC are MOC)? And without the message boards probably would have never noticed the swapped shoulders on Hssss or Roboto. Heck I didn't realize there was a hidden key in Scareglow's Reliqury until years later (I got into MOTUC in April 2010) after looking at some old SDCC pictures, and just realized Soundwave from my childhood had the back battery compartment to hold his weapons which transformed into batteries (while watching a reveiw of a knockoff Soundwave)

Well I don't know much about the production or assembly of the figures either, but we've been getting painted parts through the whole line. And just maybe Mattel had already purchased an abundance of black plastic, and the vendor asked or Mattel asked the vendor to paint these instead of getting other materials? They looked at samples of the painted parts and Design thought that color looks good, that'll work. But using it on joints caused paint rub revealing the underneath black plastic color that people are upset about.

I know I picked up a Hasbro Iron Man Legends Crimson Dynamo that had atrocitious paint apps but I bought it because it was the 1st time I'd seen the figure and didn't think I'd see it again. The Hasbro Marvel Legends Nemesis Build a figure hood continually cracks at the hinge. I have the 8" Lion-O and Tygra and these have miscolored joints, and overall look very plastic as the paint job isn't impressive, and the black wash on the SDCC Lion-O is scary bad. And these are just a couple examples and again most of my figures are MOC. I also collect Marvel Legends, DCUC, Marvel Universe, Star Wars, McFarlane Sportspicks (which are basically small plastic statues), Marvel Select, DC Direct (Collectibles),and GI Joe regularly.

I just think MOTUC is scrutinized much more than anything comparable in the market. While expecting a perfect figure at a higher standard is nice it's probably just not realistic. To me Masters is the highest quality figure that Mattel produces with more accessories than any other Mattel action figure out there.

The thing everyone overlooks about this line is, that unlike a mass retail high production line, MOTUC is a low production, hand assembled, hand painted, hand packaged, overly high priced "collectors" line. So I guess for the premium, limited availability, online only prices, plus Shipping...., we are to just accept what we are handed, shut up and bend over about everything? I think not.

This line, now, is not what we have been getting for the last 4 years, a part here or there has been painted, now, just as of July, we are getting 3/4 of a figure painted over black plastic, including joints that are chipping....This line since July has gotten worse "design team" wise, leading to much more noticeable defects, and this time it's not about loose joints or bobble heads, which compared to a figures skin color, an apparent appearance issue, flaking off, and joints that now rub badly.

And I have noticed everything about my figures MOSC or not that is wrong with them, and you can notice that shoulders are backwards, since they are shaped a certain way, and just look wrong backwards, just like Stinkors forearms look wrong.

And as I said, with the low run, subscription based, hand handled, well overpriced (with shipping) line, why should we not scrutinize MOTUC more than any other line? At least with other lines in stores we can hand pick which figure we want from the bunch, MOTUC doesn't grant us this choice, we get whatever figure DR chooses to slap in the box that comes to our door, and if you get a broken figure, you have to move heaven and earth to get a resolution, and wait another week or 2 to get the figure back....last I checked, for me it takes 10 minutes to drive to Wal-Mart, stand in line for a couple minutes, hand off the broken one, get a new one, drive 10 minutes home, and bam, my collection is one more larger....with MOTUC you do not have that option. So, why exactly shouldn't MOTUC be more scrutinized than any other line, even well more than retail lines from the same company?

I have the 8" Lion-O, my only 2 gripes with the figure are, the non color matched painted skin to the molded skin (MOTUC has this as well, on many figures), and the wrong colored pins for the joints of the feet, but that is a bad design choice (MOTUC also has this....Stinkor, Sorceress, Black painted plastic, anyone.....). Now MOTUC has both those issues, but....BUT, we don't pay the high premium (plus shipping) for the TC Classic figures, or the Marvel 4" figures, or GI Joe, Star Wars, Transformers....So why is MOTUC more scrutinized? Gee, I don't know.

That's what we were told, so yeah I believe it. I'm not really into conspiracy theories when it comes to toys.

We were also told in writing that all subs this year bought in the same transaction would ship together from the start of each. We were told we'd have a page to control our subs on the site earlier this year and are still waiting.

We've been told a lot of things that range from empty promises to outright lies. Why would anyone believe the switched forearms were anything but ANOTHER reversed part fiasco like the ones before it? Belief requires credibility, something TG and DR lost long ago...

"I will use this power for all the good that can be done, to work for peace, to encourage virtue, and above all, to preserve life in all its forms..." Superman

That's good to know because from what you said I thought you were still living in 2009 when sales were booming and we all actually believed the promises Scott made.

They may be unhappy about the negative aspects of the line, but it's the love of MOTU in general that keeps most of the remaining customers going. The issues may not have stunted your enjoyment, but for those who have an incomplete collection because their Goddess exploded, or their Snout Spout dry rotted all to pieces with no chance of getting an acceptable replacement may be a bit more disillusioned than you.

It's interesting during the sub sell-in period, people who were unhappy were basically begged to give Mattel one more try, to remember that it's the love of the brand that counts, not the execution of the figures, we're lucky to get figures at all. Now that 2013 is a go, it's like, take your money elsewhere if you're not happy, your crazy if you stick around for the love of the brand, and just please shut up.

- - - Updated - - -

Originally Posted by Evilestwarrior

Well said... At this point we all know that the black plastic will continue for the next few month's at least, if not into 2013 before it CAN be fixed. For those that passionately hate the use of it on their toys, why not cancel your subs or not buy on DOS? We all knew it was on Mekaneck, DB Skeletor, and the Snake Men well ahead of time, yet they are basically sold out. I can think of no better way to send a message than not buying something.

I haven't bought anything since Spikor.

So why do I still come here? I guess residual anger at Mattel for pushing me to make that decision when things could have gone another way, and because MOTU's potential is being squandered.

It's interesting during the sub sell-in period, people who were unhappy were basically begged to give Mattel one more try, to remember that it's the love of the brand that counts, not the execution of the figures.

To be fair, the sub sell-in pleas had very little to do with expecting lapsed sub holders to ignore the realities of what's wrong with the line. At least for my part when I made an impassioned plea it wasn't me saying, he guys buy these subs even though there is so much wrong with the line. I merely stated, please buy the sub or any of our complaining about what isn't working will be meaningless as the line will die anyway. It's easy to look back now and blame those who were putting their pride on the line to help save it as the hopeful idiots who simply choose to ignore reality by turning a blind eye to the obvious problems with MOTUC, but truthfully this is apples and oranges. If the patient is on the floor dying logic dictates that first you have to save them before you can start discussing treatment options in curing the disease. And there is absolutely a disease permeating this line, no doubt about it.

Now that we've thankfully saved 2013 we can begin to discuss treatment options, which this thread and others are obviously doing. I still disagree with the tone and intent of those brazenly bashing Scott to the 'Nth' degree, but I'll remain mum if the mods and predominant opinion is that people should be allowed to openly bash regardless.

Originally Posted by jibernish

I have kept my negativity about this here. I don't go into positive threads and rain negativity.

I don't purport to speak for everyone chiming in on this topic, but for my part I think the only thing any of us trying to steer the topic away from outright negativity are doing is saying... look guys... at this point I believe your point is made. That's really it in a nutshell.

To be fair, the sub sell-in pleas had very little to do with expecting lapsed sub holders to ignore the realities of what's wrong with the line. At least for my part when I made an impassioned plea it wasn't me saying, he guys buy these subs even though there is so much wrong with the line. I merely stated, please buy the sub or any of our complaining about what isn't working will be meaningless as the line will die anyway. It's easy to look back now and blame those who were putting their pride on the line to help save it as the hopeful idiots who simply choose to ignore reality by turning a blind eye to the obvious problems with MOTUC, but truthfully this is apples and oranges. If the patient is on the floor dying logic dictates that first you have to save them before you can start discussing treatment options in curing the disease. And there is absolutely a disease permeating this line, no doubt about it.

Now that we've thankfully saved 2013 we can begin to discuss treatment options, which this thread and others are obviously doing. I still disagree with the tone and intent of those brazenly bashing Scott to the 'Nth' degree, but I'll remain mum if the mods and predominant opinion is that people should be allowed to openly bash regardless.

I don't purport to speak for everyone chiming in on this topic, but for my part I think the only thing any of us trying to steer the topic away from outright negativity are doing is saying... look guys... at this point I believe your point is made. That's really it in a nutshell.

Well-stated. Now, what is the disease that permeates in this line and what do you recommend one do about it?

I think a lot of the anger here comes from something new popping up after the fact, sub-wise. I don't think many folks who bought the subs expected things to change from what they have been, despite the standard bantha poodoo from TG and DR. And just as the subs closed and everyone was locked in, we started to see the latest cost cutting manuever on Mattel's part with the black plastic, something that hadn't shown up at all before Vykron (and one figure was not enough to establish a pattern). Now, after the big drama, all of a sudden we have a brand new problem no one saw coming, and there is an escapable "gotcha, sucker!" feel about it.

"I will use this power for all the good that can be done, to work for peace, to encourage virtue, and above all, to preserve life in all its forms..." Superman

I have a question for anyone who is complaining about the complainers, what are you hoping to achieve? You’re certainly not helping to fix issues. Is it that you don’t want to read people’s complaints? Shouldn’t you just accept them, just as you’re asking the complainers to accept their QC issues? Are you aware that you’re ‘killin teh org’ just as much as the complainers.

Ok "complaining about the complainers" is not clever anymore. Look what I can do... All you complainers complaining about the complainers complaining about the complainers need to stop...see that??? It's not an automatic win to an argument.
We are discussing a topic and all parties involved are trying to get their points across that is the point of a discussion forum right? Sounds more like we are all keeping Teh org alive and using it for what it's for...no?

Originally Posted by Stygian360

I don't purport to speak for everyone chiming in on this topic, but for my part I think the only thing any of us trying to steer the topic away from outright negativity are doing is saying... look guys... at this point I believe your point is made. That's really it in a nutshell.

To be fair, the sub sell-in pleas had very little to do with expecting lapsed sub holders to ignore the realities of what's wrong with the line. At least for my part when I made an impassioned plea it wasn't me saying, he guys buy these subs even though there is so much wrong with the line. I merely stated, please buy the sub or any of our complaining about what isn't working will be meaningless as the line will die anyway. It's easy to look back now and blame those who were putting their pride on the line to help save it as the hopeful idiots who simply choose to ignore reality by turning a blind eye to the obvious problems with MOTUC, but truthfully this is apples and oranges. If the patient is on the floor dying logic dictates that first you have to save them before you can start discussing treatment options in curing the disease. And there is absolutely a disease permeating this line, no doubt about it.

Now that we've thankfully saved 2013 we can begin to discuss treatment options, which this thread and others are obviously doing. I still disagree with the tone and intent of those brazenly bashing Scott to the 'Nth' degree, but I'll remain mum if the mods and predominant opinion is that people should be allowed to openly bash regardless.

I don't purport to speak for everyone chiming in on this topic, but for my part I think the only thing any of us trying to steer the topic away from outright negativity are doing is saying... look guys... at this point I believe your point is made. That's really it in a nutshell.

I didn't characterize anyone as a hopeful idiot and I don't view them that way either. It's honorable that people show faith in the brand and vote for it. It's dishonorable what Mattel does with that.

The point I was trying to make was that people were asked to put their love of the brand higher than their displeasure with the line. Now SOME (only some) are asking those same people to ignore that very same love for the brand and just quit the line altogether. They are being asked to do the exact opposite.

So really, some people here are not here to just discuss the issues, but to achieve an agenda. And that's not really an honest or worthwile discussion.

And while there may be little to no new information in the words of complaints made over and over again, there IS information to be gleaned from the tenacity these posters have. It shows just how upset Mattel has made a segment of its customers - that their anger will not go away, and that Mattel is failing in its customer service/satisfaction roles.

The point THAT we are upset and why has been made. But HOW upset we are is a story that is still underway. And until fixes are communicated, promised, and put into place, the amount of upset will continue to grow. How else to communicate that message back to Mattel than by continuing to complain. If Mattel's addressing of this issue is not satisfactory, and they continue to be mum on the subject, then they should keep getting feedback about it. The number of posts in this thread and the 'freshness' of the latest post shows that this is still a serious issue that hasn't been satisfactorily addressed.

The bigger issue is that Mattel isn't a responsible company. If they were, they would not be getting this level, duration, frequency, and redundancy of complaints. The redundancy of these requests says more about Mattel's failure than the customers' inability to move on.

No seriously, I was agreeing with you, I just meant that I had said the same exact thing you said a few posts back....

And sorry, but they knew when these black plastic figures would be run, and when they would be sold, and they happened to come in force just after the sub drive, granted most of us got Vykron & Spikor before the subs ended, but we never realized at the time, about the chipping, or anything, it was something we may have thought to be a one off thing, because they needed similar parts for 2 characters, OK, I could see that....then SLL came, then people started to notice the paint chipping off more and more, then Mekaneck came, DB Skeletor, The Snake Men, Rattlor will come....etc, it's become a huge issue now, and many Vykrons look as if they were not even fully painted. DB Skeletor looks crummy with dark black plastic showing through the bright blue color.....now MOTUC has turned to garbage, and all this after many of us had gotten locked into the sub....

And many DOS buyers hadn't even had Spikor a week or so before the subs ended, and Vykron was arriving to many towards the end of the sub drive as well, knowing what I know now, I certainly would not have subbed for 2013, but if they fix the problem before Ram Man comes, I will be OK with it, since so far the females don't seem affected by it, and Netossa is first.

I have a question for anyone who is complaining about the complainers, what are you hoping to achieve? You’re certainly not helping to fix issues. Is it that you don’t want to read people’s complaints? Shouldn’t you just accept them, just as you’re asking the complainers to accept their QC issues? Are you aware that you’re ‘killin teh org’ just as much as the complainers.

Originally Posted by Evilestwarrior

Ok "complaining about the complainers" is not clever anymore. Look what I can do... All you complainers complaining about the complainers complaining about the complainers need to stop...see that??? It's not an automatic win to an argument.

Is it all about winning the argument for you? I was not trying to be clever. I was describing a group of people – those complaining about the complainers. My question wasn’t aimed at those who don’t feel the need to fight for change, it was aimed purely at those who want other people to shut up. You might be sick of the term but it is apt. What term would you have used? Anyway, I wasn’t even trying to win an argument – and my labeling of a group of people wasn’t the main point. If you had read my comment you would have realized that I posed a question.

All I seem to read is you complaining to people and offering nothing useful to address any of the issues. Reading your other posts it seems that simply raising QC issues to Mattel is enough for you. I could not disagree more – if we don’t continue to fight for issues until they are fixed then Mattel will see our eventual silence as complacency and happily ignore the issue all-together.

Originally Posted by Evilestwarrior

We are discussing a topic and all parties involved are trying to get their points across that is the point of a discussion forum right? Sounds more like we are all keeping Teh org alive and using it for what it's for...no?

Yeah, except one party expects the other to put up and shut up while they hypocritically do exactly the same thing – complain! That doesn’t sound like a discussion to me.

There is a big difference between disagreeing with someone and telling them how they should feel and act.

Originally Posted by Stygian360

... look guys... at this point I believe your point is made. That's really it in a nutshell.

While I agree with you, I don’t think it’s enough. Being vocal is what brings about change. The number of people and the extent to which they voice their opinion tells Mattel everything. If we raise an issue and then move on it tells Mattel that the issue isn’t important enough.

Re: Black PlasticDesign is looking into this and they have already confirm they will explore other base colors and solutions starting with Dekker, the next fig going into production that still had time to change.

I think a lot of the anger here comes from something new popping up after the fact, sub-wise. I don't think many folks who bought the subs expected things to change from what they have been, despite the standard bantha poodoo from TG and DR. And just as the subs closed and everyone was locked in, we started to see the latest cost cutting manuever on Mattel's part with the black plastic, something that hadn't shown up at all before Vykron (and one figure was not enough to establish a pattern). Now, after the big drama, all of a sudden we have a brand new problem no one saw coming, and there is an escapable "gotcha, sucker!" feel about it.

This is exactly the issue. They raised the prices and cut the quality of the product without telling us before they had us locked in. It's double dipping beyond cost cutting. It's more like someone involved is looking to get a promotion by increasing the profit at the expense of the product quality and customer satisfaction.

I hope the complaining remains loud and constant to help bring the quality of MOTUC back to what it was before they got cheap. If not, we may have seen "the final nail in the coffin" for this line.

"Design is looking into this and they have already confirm they will explore other base colors and solutions starting with Dekker, the next fig going into production that still had time to change."

It's not rocket science. Explore using the appropriate colored plastic and skip base colors just as they did for EVERY figure for the past 3 years.

Now, what is the disease that permeates in this line and what do you recommend one do about it?

Sorry Jun, but this isn't the thread to underscore ailments- other than the aforementioned use of black plastic. There are plenty of great already existing threads on these various topics right here in this community (and even in this very thread- by some very well spoken and passionate folks). Just poke around and I'm sure before long the ailments will be apparent.