Loud screeching sound plagued my '01 Voyager 3.3limmediately after startup. Although the noise would go away after few minutes, it sounded hideous.

I tried some suggestions from this board, such as swapping the starter under the theory that the starter gear was not retracting. Changing the serpentine belt also made no difference. Another suggestion that marginally helped was siphoning and replacing much of the fluid in the power steering reservoir.

After digging deeper, I learned that the reservoir has a screen within it that tends to clog. I purchased a new one from Chrysler for less than $30, along with high-end power steering fluid, and replaced it. Now, the noise is completely gone.

Here is how to change it. The reservoir is on top of the engine and is very accessible. To swap it, siphon out as much fluid as possible. You can use a turkey baster, but remember that turkey-day is around the corner. Next, remove the two bolts on top of the reservoir with an 8mm socket. Then use pliers to remove the two hoses clamps connected to it. There were two unrelated tubes that were in the way, which pulled off by hand and made clearance easier. There is one bolt underneath the reservoir that needs to be loosened (not removed) with a 10mm socket. Removing the two hoses from the reservoir took penetrating oil and muscle, even with the clamps removed. Overall, it took about 45 minutes and was not too difficult. I now consider replacing the reservoir as a maintenance item for higher mileage vans. Hope this helps.

nkg406

11-11-2007, 01:25 AM

I have a 2002 Town and Country with 108,000 and I am having a "whine" sound on cool mornings. I took it to my mechanic, who told me about a recall, because his wife as a Dodge 2002 minivan. I can't find anything about this recall. Does anybody know anything about this?

Bernard Feltzer

11-11-2007, 04:46 AM

I have a 2002 Town and Country with 108,000 and I am having a "whine" sound on cool mornings. I took it to my mechanic, who told me about a recall, because his wife as a Dodge 2002 minivan. I can't find anything about this recall. Does anybody know anything about this?
For all you folks looking for the various recalls and Technical Service Bulletins, go to this website, see the little red letters under the top ?
http://www.chryslerforum.com/forumid_18/tt.htm

alvin

11-11-2007, 02:08 PM

That looks like a complete list, but has only the summaries, like any other free
source of this information.

mmahamm

11-13-2007, 11:06 PM

...I purchased a new one from Chrysler for less than $30, along with high-end power steering fluid, and replaced it...

What exact high-end power steering fluid did you purchase? My understanding is that, starting in 2002 (?) the recommended fluid is now ATF+4. Don't know if it is retroactively specified for earlier years.

shipo

11-14-2007, 09:38 AM

What exact high-end power steering fluid did you purchase? My understanding is that, starting in 2002 (?) the recommended fluid is now ATF+4. Don't know if it is retroactively specified for earlier years.

While ATF+4 may not be retroactively specified for earlier years, the steering rack on our 1998 was getting a little noisy late last winter. In an effort to cure the noise, I performed the "suck the reservoir dry and refill with ATF+4" thing a couple of times, and, noise gone. That was some 15,000 miles ago and it still drives perfectly noise free. Given that the van had 135,000 miles on it at the time I didn't figure I had too much to lose if the fluid replacement didn't work. ;)

Flavife

11-14-2007, 08:16 PM

Here is a picture of the label on a gallon of ATF+4 indicating power steering approval for post 98 and later.

Frank
99 DGC Sport 115900 mi
07 T&C SWB 7200 mi

Hokiefyd

11-14-2007, 10:17 PM

Also evidence that the fluid truly IS designed to be a "fill for life" fluid under normal circumstances.

05SXT

11-15-2007, 09:01 AM

Also evidence that the fluid truly IS designed to be a "fill for life" fluid under normal circumstances.

"fill for life" = *until it fails from lack of service* :biggrin:

BlackOnBlackCobra96

11-15-2007, 03:56 PM

"fill for life" = *until it fails from lack of service* :biggrin:

After changing my resevoir with fluid that last 190K miles, it didn't seem like the fluid went bad. It appeared that foreign particles within the fluid clogged the screen within the resevoir and created me issue. I suspect that if there was filter to catch these particles (perhaps the screen within the resevoir IS the filter), the fluid would last for the life of the vehicle. I'd still service it, because the fluid does get contaminated.

Hokiefyd

11-15-2007, 04:40 PM

Both of my Cadillacs have come with power steering system filters. They resemble fuel filters, but I don't know the density of the filtering material inside (if they are truly the same type of filter). They appeared the same (a canister-type filter). It may be possible to ADD a fuel filter to your power steering system to get the same net effect.

russandirene

11-25-2007, 09:11 AM

I too changed the power steering reservoir on our 01 and it solved the problem. After changing it out and looking at the old one I think that you should be able to clean it and save the cost of a new one.
what do you think?
Russ

Consultant

11-26-2007, 11:39 AM

I just changed the reservoir on my 2004 T&C and it solved my power steering noise problem too. The dealer sold me the reservoir for $24 and it was pretty easy to change.

MacDaddy

11-27-2007, 12:16 AM

Changed mine tonight. The comment about the 10mm bolt was extremely helpful. The manual only says remove the screws and nut. LOL I have a new name for that nut that I can't repeat in public.
Mac

chicago

11-30-2007, 05:07 PM

Holy Cow......I just changed the reservoir and man did it make a difference. The squeal went away and rides like a charm. I am not mechanically inclined by no means but this change was very easy and quick. I am so happy for this forum i have already saved hundreds of dollars by researching this forum and fixing problems according to posts. Thanks to all who left posts....

P.S. Tell everyone you know change the reservoir first cheap fix for a loud nasty problem.

mmahamm

11-30-2007, 05:55 PM

...I am so happy for this forum i have already saved hundreds of dollars by researching this forum and fixing problems according to posts. Thanks to all who left posts....

Now that you've saved hundreds of dollars, you may want to make a donation. Your post looks just like one that I posted back when, before my first donation. I have not donated large amounts, but I have found that the money saved is worth doing my part to help keep this forum going.

Entirely a private matter, and no pressure intended, just wanted to point that out. Feel free to let me have it if I'm crossing the line.

chicago

11-30-2007, 11:13 PM

Line Crossed....Tis the season to be lucky to have saved on costly auto repairs.

bowen

01-02-2008, 02:10 PM

While ATF+4 may not be retroactively specified for earlier years, the steering rack on our 1998 was getting a little noisy late last winter. In an effort to cure the noise, I performed the "suck the reservoir dry and refill with ATF+4" thing a couple of times, and, noise gone. That was some 15,000 miles ago and it still drives perfectly noise free. Given that the van had 135,000 miles on it at the time I didn't figure I had too much to lose if the fluid replacement didn't work. ;)

So you cannot drain it all somehow?
I guess you are saying you did the "suck" and refill 2 times as the new mixed with the old. My concern now is the reservoir. Others say that just the fluid change did not stop the groan on COLD mornings.
I may not try it myself. Wonder what the dealer charges to replace the fluid and reservoir, and can THEY even replace ALL the ATF+4 at one time?
My van is a 2005 if that matters.

shipo

01-02-2008, 02:43 PM

So you cannot drain it all somehow?
I guess you are saying you did the "suck" and refill 2 times as the new mixed with the old. My concern now is the reservoir. Others say that just the fluid change did not stop the groan on COLD mornings.
I may not try it myself. Wonder what the dealer charges to replace the fluid and reservoir, and can THEY even replace ALL the ATF+4 at one time?
My van is a 2005 if that matters.

Keep in mind that the power steering arrangement on our 1998 Gen 3 is very different than that of the Gen 4 vans. Geez, I don't even know if replacing the reservoir on a Gen 3 is possible and would offer any benefit. All I know is that the ATF+4 blend that is now in the PS system in our 1998 operates nice and quiet. ;)

bowen

01-02-2008, 04:17 PM

Keep in mind that the power steering arrangement on our 1998 Gen 3 is very different than that of the Gen 4 vans.

Well I can now add some information as I just left the dealer and had it changed. With the cold noise he quickly says it had to be changed. I will add more details soon.

katoranger

01-02-2008, 04:21 PM

Let me know. I was in MN and it whine alittle when first started.

I purchased my van at Hayes in Lawrenceville. Good service so far.

Allen

bowen

01-02-2008, 08:22 PM

Well I can now add some information as I just left the dealer and had it changed. With the cold noise he quickly says it had to be changed. I will add more details soon.

OK. It cost me about $117 at the dealer: New Reservoir $ 27, + 2 Qts ATF+4 $18, + Labor $72
He says the problem is very common above 50K miles or 75K for sure.
The reservoir has 2 lines: the large rear one goes to the pump suction. The other smaller one is the return. He took the return line off, cranked the engine, and turned the wheel so that fluid ran into a bucket vs. back into the reservoir. When it starts to "puke" (his word) meaning the system is out of fluid, he put just maybe a cup or so of new fluid into the reservoir to let it pump this out as well. (To be sure all the old is out) Then quickly shutting the engine off. (two person job) Now the steering system is empty. Next, he replace the reservoir and refilled the fluid, after re-attaching the return line.
All work is up top on the engine and quiet easy to get to. It took them about 35 minutes to do.
The Result? I cannot be SURE until in the morning, but I FOR SURE can already tell a difference, the power steering is really quiet. The tech said the old oil was really dirty looking. Kinda looks like this thing needs a filter added so that it can be changed, but the whole plastic reservoir is not real expensive.
The job is a little messy as the "puking" splattered some fluid on the exhaust which had the burn itself off, so if you try it yourself I suggest a rag maybe over the return line down into the bucket.
I could have done this myself now that I see how he did it, but it's DANG cold down here today and I wanted it done.
The hose you see on the right in the picture is the one that returns fluid to the reservoir.
http://i15.tinypic.com/72rsv8m.jpg
There is some discussion that they might someday do a recall on this; I am saving my ticket.

Hokiefyd

01-02-2008, 08:32 PM

Thanks for the write-up. So did the technician know what you were on to when you asked for the reservoir to be replaced? Has he seen this problem before...and seen the reservoir fix the noise? That would seem to confirm our suspicions -- that the reservoir (screen) has a big part to play in this noise issue.

Glad to hear you're running quiet again.

vipergg

01-02-2008, 08:35 PM

I have found just draining the PS fluid out of the reservoir and refilling it with atf+4 fixed my whine which was getting pretty loud . If it comes back i'll change it again because you only get out less than 12 ounces just draining the reservoir but in my case that was enough to fix the whine . The fluid that came out was really dark . I would try just changing the fluid first if you don't want to stand outside in freezing weather for an hour , the fluid change is about 15-20 minutes tops ... this also indicates to me that it is not necessarily a clogged filter causing the noise . Think mine was also a little low as it was a little below the 2 fill marks before changing . I left it just a touch above the top fill mark after the change. If it stays quiet I may change it again in the spring when the high temp is higher than 15 degrees out ..

DENALIJOE

01-02-2008, 09:59 PM

Mine was making the same noise so I replaced the reservoir ($19.00 at dealer) and the noise is gone. I will flush the system soon, after reading other posts that tell how. One point to make, before removing the reservoir put some shop rags down and plug the holes in the old reservoir with paper to avoid getting ATF+4 all over the engine. It make a real mess and some smoke.

bowen

01-03-2008, 10:33 PM

Mine was making the same noise so I replaced the reservoir ($19.00 at dealer) and the noise is gone. I will flush the system soon, after reading other posts that tell how. One point to make, before removing the reservoir put some shop rags down and plug the holes in the old reservoir with paper to avoid getting ATF+4 all over the engine. It make a real mess and some smoke.

HA!:lol: Yeah even the dealer I took mine to let some fluid get on some pipes. Shipo mentioned how BAD the ATF+4 smells in the can. I promise you it smells 2X worse burning off. Mine still smells after two days, and only a small amount spilled. I don't know if it ran out when he took the old reservoir off, or when he cranked the van and pumped all the fluid out.
Whatever the case this FIXED my cold morning groaning, moaning, weeering whinning! :ThumbsUp:

BlackOnBlackCobra96

01-03-2008, 11:23 PM

One vote for making this thread a sticky. Just about everyone who has one of these vans for a decent period of time is going run into this problem.

erh7771

01-09-2008, 12:49 PM

One vote for making this thread a sticky. Just about everyone who has one of these vans for a decent period of time is going run into this problem.

Unfortunately I caught this thread a little late and I'm being tagged for 550$ from the stealer ship who has JUST called me and said the whining "noise" hasn't gone after changing my power steering pump. They want to change the reservoir now after the fact and I told them I felt as if they're experimenting with my van

They've changed the pump already, is there anything I can get them to do to not charge me for the pump change and just the reservoir change...I know this is a little late but any help would be GREATLY appreciated.

Thx,
PO'd at stealership

BlackOnBlackCobra96

01-09-2008, 04:33 PM

Unfortunately I caught this thread a little late and I'm being tagged for 550$ from the stealer ship who has JUST called me and said the whining "noise" hasn't gone after changing my power steering pump. They want to change the reservoir now after the fact and I told them I felt as if they're experimenting with my van

They've changed the pump already, is there anything I can get them to do to not charge me for the pump change and just the reservoir change...I know this is a little late but any help would be GREATLY appreciated.

Thx,
PO'd at stealership

There's no real formal procedure. Just complain, tell them to reinstall the old pump, and give you a refund. The dealer should have known that the reservoir was the real problem. Worst case scenario is to call Chrysler customer support. I did that for a power steering problem on my '05 that happened while within warranty but didn't manifest itself until it was out of warranty. Chrysler agreed to split the bill, which is one reason why my next vehicle will likely be a Chrysler.

Minivanmom

01-10-2008, 11:02 AM

Unfortunately I caught this thread a little late and I'm being tagged for 550$ from the stealer ship who has JUST called me and said the whining "noise" hasn't gone after changing my power steering pump. They want to change the reservoir now after the fact and I told them I felt as if they're experimenting with my van

They've changed the pump already, is there anything I can get them to do to not charge me for the pump change and just the reservoir change...I know this is a little late but any help would be GREATLY appreciated.

Thx,
PO'd at stealership

Hey there. We have had a good result in the past with contacting Chrysler/Dodge Corporate office. My husband explained everything, got a little mad on the phone with them, said he is a good customer and feels ripped off, etc... I took my van to the local dealership for this same noise and they replaced my water pump and charged us for it! I don't want to take the van back because of the labor rate, which is way more than the part. Good luck. We will be replacing the reservoir entirely and not just the filter this weekend.

redtdi96

01-11-2008, 09:00 AM

Great Thread, I agree this should be sticky and place in a FAQ:

My friend has a 2001, had a whining noise two weeks ago. Then two night calls me and says he lost his power steering.

The stealer ( :help_wsig SOMERVILLE NJ DODGE) :help_wsig charged his wife (BTW does anyone have a good mail order chrysler dealer):

1- ~ 40$ for hoses ( 18.99 for each hose (2) in and out of P/S cooler , these are 5" hoses, with a 5/16 ID.

2- 18$ , 4.50 per spring clamp for 4- spring clamp hoses!!!!!!!!

3- 36.50 for the resivour!

4- 11.75$ for a qt of ATF+4 (WALmart has this for 4.97 OEM stuff)

This is robbery I'd say

BTW thanks for tuning me in to the resivour. In general I think that working on the T&C is pretty easy. The Resivour would be a snap except for the buried 10MM nut that needs to be loosened.

Bruce

BlackOnBlackCobra96

01-11-2008, 03:52 PM

3- 36.50 for the resivour!

Is this in US Dollars? It seems like your dealer charges way too much. I always thought that the prices for parts were standard for each dealer, but I guess not. My recollection was that this part was only like $24.

RIP

01-11-2008, 04:54 PM

Pardon me if this was already mentioned but, there was a TSB (not a recall) issued for clogged power steering filters in the reservoir on early generation 4 vans that required changing the reservoir. Wish I could remember the number. If your dealership or shop seems clueless remind them.

halcon

07-31-2008, 03:49 AM

I just became a member I have a hard time finding were can I post a question about my van. Please give me a clue.

Jeepman

07-31-2008, 07:15 AM

Go to http://forum.chryslerminivan.net/index.php
Click on the appropriate subject line under The Minivan Mopar Garage listing.
Click on New Thread.
Give the Thread a title.
Give some specifics on your Van (year, engine size, two wheel drive, all wheel drive, etc) at the start. It helps speed up the problem solving.

VANGO

07-31-2008, 03:57 PM

My steering is starting to make noise so after reading all these posts, I went online to Rock Auto Parts and looked to buy a power steering resevoir. I couldn't find that but they do list a power steering magnetic in-line filter. My guess is that this might be an after-market upgrade and not part of the original equipment. Has any one tried these?
My steering is not making any cold startup noise but is however noisy after a long ride when everything is good and warm. Same symtom as before when the dealer changed my under warranty. It did solve the problem that time. This time I will be changing it myself and really welcome all the tips here.

Jeepman

07-31-2008, 04:34 PM

My steering is starting to make noise so after reading all these posts, I went online to Rock Auto Parts and looked to buy a power steering resevoir. I couldn't find that but they do list a power steering magnetic in-line filter. My guess is that this might be an after-market upgrade and not part of the original equipment. Has any one tried these?
My steering is not making any cold startup noise but is however noisy after a long ride when everything is good and warm. Same symtom as before when the dealer changed my under warranty. It did solve the problem that time. This time I will be changing it myself and really welcome all the tips here.

Interesting. Here's a site that lists them for a 2002 (and other years) Caravan.
http://www.autopart.com/partsout/2002/DODGE_CARAVAN/7296.htm

Another site: http://www.northerntool.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_6970_200356556_200356556

The Boss magnetic in-line filter uses magnets to trap and remove metal particles produced through normal wear in a vehicle's power steering system.

Filter uses magnets to trap and remove metal particles produced through normal wear and tear
Removing these particles increases power steering fluid efficiency and extends pump and rack life
Protects for up to 50,000 miles
Universal fit for all 3/8in. power steering return line hoses
Kit includes filter and two hose clamps for easy installation

Gotta get me one of those. Thanks.

mmahamm

08-01-2008, 10:36 AM

Interesting. Here's a site that lists them for a 2002 (and other years) Caravan...Gotta get me one of those. Thanks.

I wonder how long it takes to clog.

packerduf

08-01-2008, 10:54 AM

I wonder how long it takes to clog.

I was wondering the same thing. It looks like you can purchase the filter at just about any parts store - Auto Zone, Advance Auto Parts, Oreilly's, NAPA, etc.

I'm changing reservoir within the next few weeks anyway, and unless someone here advises me otherwise, I think I'm going to try one of these filters.

I'm thinking that even if it eventually clogs, it should give early warning signs - much the same as the current OEM system.

JCamasto

08-01-2008, 02:06 PM

That magnet also traps $ quite effectively...

-Jim

MacDaddy

08-02-2008, 05:12 PM

.....3- 36.50 for the resivour!....

Bruce

eh, that's about what I had to pay for mine. Agreed everything else was way out of line. More reason to do it yourself. That 10mm bolt gave me a good opportunity to rehearse George Carlin's 7 words you can't say radio lol.

veaumj

08-14-2008, 12:43 AM

I tried to do the cheapskate way and suck the old fluid out of the resevior, run repeat until the fluid was clean. What I successfully accomplished is to dislodge enough junk to clog up the screen at the bottom of the resevior. The pump whined all the time. Bought a new reseviour at the dealer-$27, pumped the fluid out attaching an empty atf bottle to the return hose, started the engine, emptied the system. Replaced the tank, reattached the hoses refilled the system and voila - HUSH. I had no idea this thing could sound so quiet. Spend the $35 for fluid and resevior, it will be worth it.
Thank you for the 10mm bolt info - attached the socket to a short extension and after removing the vacuum hoses above it was able to loosen the nut enought to remove the tank. Attached the socket and extension to the nut when tightening, attached the ratchet and tightened it - no big deal.

Dodgeboy77

08-14-2008, 10:24 AM

Does anyone know if it would work to remove the reservoir and back flush it in a solvent tank to clean the filter? And/or blow it out with compressed air? I should go to the dealer and ask to look at a reservoir to get a better idea of what that filter screen looks like.

Bill

Consultant

08-14-2008, 11:25 AM

Does anyone know if it would work to remove the reservoir and back flush it in a solvent tank to clean the filter? And/or blow it out with compressed air? I should go to the dealer and ask to look at a reservoir to get a better idea of what that filter screen looks like.

Bill

I replaced mine, but it looks like you could easily clean it out by backflushing it with solvent.

Stuart

Jeepman

08-14-2008, 03:14 PM

Does anyone know if it would work to remove the reservoir and back flush it in a solvent tank to clean the filter? And/or blow it out with compressed air? I should go to the dealer and ask to look at a reservoir to get a better idea of what that filter screen looks like.

Bill

I cut one apart last week. There is a very fine mesh screen filter, about 3" diameter, in the section between the inlet (small) pipe and the outlet (large) pipe.
It looks like it could be backflushed quite easily, a new unit is not very expensive though.

packerduf

08-27-2008, 12:03 PM

That 10mm bolt gave me a good opportunity to rehearse George Carlin's 7 words you can't say radio lol.

Just replaced my reservoir a few days ago. I used Carlin's 7 words, plus a few I made up on the fly, while dealing with the 10mm nut on the back-side.

Thanks again BlackOnBlackCobra. Your post gave me the courage to try this myself, and I saved myself some $$. I paid about $25 for the resevoir and $8 for ATF+4 - all from the dealership.

Noise seems to be gone. I was a little worried about re-using the hose clamps, but I have no post-replacement leaks, so all appears to be fine.

I only used 1/2 quart of ATF+4, so I think I will replace the reservoir fluid at each oil change for preventive maintenance. It would only take 5 minutes to do so. If/when I purchase new van, I will do this from the get-go.

Now I am off to buy the wife a new turkey baster.

tdg

08-27-2008, 12:12 PM

My 2003 had the noisy power steering issue, a new reservoir solved it, no problems since it was done about 9 months ago.

Jeepman

08-27-2008, 03:37 PM

Probably wouldn't hurt to replace the reservoir every 100,000 miles, if not sooner, as preventative maintenance.
If you have used any power steering fluid, other than the ATF+4 specified by Chrysler, you might want to flush out that fluid and replace the reservoir the soonest.

Any TSB beginning with a 19 seems to be power steering related.
A General Listing of various TSBs follows:
http://www.alldatadiy.com/TSB/13/051313eN.html

RIP

08-27-2008, 06:27 PM

[QUOTE=Jeepman;79736]Probably wouldn't hurt to replace the reservoir every 100,000 miles, if not sooner, as preventative maintenance.[QOUTE]

Before you do that, figure out a way to get that piece o crap filter out of the reservoir. My 96 doesn't have a filter and my power steering has worked fine through 202K miles. I changed the fluid once only because I could.

packerduf

08-27-2008, 06:43 PM

[QUOTE=RIP;79764Before you do that, figure out a way to get that piece o crap filter out of the reservoir. My 96 doesn't have a filter and my power steering has worked fine through 202K miles. I changed the fluid once only because I could.[/QUOTE]

It is not a filter, rather a screen. However you make a great point. I am curious as to why Chrysler has not resolved this issue. I suppose as long as it is not a recall, and only a TSB issue, then we pay - not Chrysler.

Jeepman

08-27-2008, 08:01 PM

It is not a filter, rather a screen. However you make a great point. I am curious as to why Chrysler has not resolved this issue. I suppose as long as it is not a recall, and only a TSB issue, then we pay - not Chrysler.

I cut one of these reservoirs apart and the screen is a very fine mesh with overall diameter of about 3". It could probably be backwashed to clean it. It is located at the top of the bottom portion, above the outlet connection and below the inlet (smaller of the two) connection.
This very screen that traps particles and keeps them from recirculating and doing harm, ends up cutting down flow (I'm assuming that's the problem) and being a detriment.

PTXer

08-28-2008, 10:19 AM

I cleaned mine with a can and a half of brake and parts cleaner last winter. Squirting it in through the return (so goes the opposite way to dislodge all the gunk on the screen) and dumping it out the top. Dried it out with compressed air and reassembled and refilled. Noise gone. Be sure you recheck the fluid level a few times as the bubbles get worked out of the system. I didn't start up to drain as much fluid as I could out of the pump, but sounds like a good idea (although potentially messy).

Hokiefyd

08-28-2008, 11:08 AM

Has anyone discussed removing this screen and installing a small in-line replaceable fuel filter type device? Like an small in-line fuel filter for a carbureted car:

http://thehotrodcompany.com/images/products/11050_lg.jpg

Think that'd be compatible with the ATF+4 of these power steering systems?

packerduf

08-28-2008, 11:31 AM

I stated in an earlier post that I was going to try one of those in-line filters when I replaced my reservoir, but I decided against it. I didn't feel comfortable splicing it into my hose, thus creating another possible leak-point. Also, I was worried about restricting the flow of fluid.

Jeepman

08-28-2008, 08:06 PM

Has anyone discussed removing this screen and installing a small in-line replaceable fuel filter type device? Like an small in-line fuel filter for a carbureted car:

http://thehotrodcompany.com/images/products/11050_lg.jpg

Think that'd be compatible with the ATF+4 of these power steering systems?

There is a filter available that picks up magnetic particles as well.
Try http://www.allworldautomotive.com/auto_parts_for_sale_filters_misc_ots16362.html Box of 20 for $660.00 for price of $33.00 each.

The Magnefine Filter System

The MAGNEFINE filter extends the filtration spectrum to provide dual filtration that is designed to be completely effective in removing damaging ferrous metal particles from automatic transmissions and power steering systems.

When the fluid passes within the effective range (5mm) of the powerful magnet, the MAGNEFINE filter quickly attracts all the hard damaging ferrous particles, even down to an incredible sub-micron level stopping the "chain reaction of wear".

The worldwide patented MAGNEFINE dual filtration filter is the only effective form of filtration that can provide dynamic small particle extraction while maintaining full line flow capabilities for automatic transmissions and power steering systems

CHECK YOUR RETURN LINE SIZE 3/8 OR 1/2 INCH AVAILABLE

Another site for the same product: http://www.bossproductsusa.com/products.html

As to removing the fine mesh screen filter, that wouldn't be a clean job due to lack of access plus the 3" diameter screen has a plastic framework, for support, incorporated in it. Getting a reservoir, without the screen in place, isn't likely either.

Looks like replacing the reservoir, as if it were a filter, is the way to go.

wcknight

09-30-2008, 10:31 PM

quoting Gomer Pyle --Thank you thank you thank you

It being 10 pm and all, I loosened the resevoir leaving all the hoses connected and literally shook the snot out of the resevoir - low and behold - no noise 10 minutes work, after new PS pump and hearing from 4 different mechanics:thanx2:

Organized Confusion

10-19-2008, 11:25 PM

I just got my 2005 TC about a week ago
I read all the Chrysler issued TSB's on PS and found several
I spoke to a few lead tech's at Chrysler dealerships and ended up doing a combination of all the TSB's and just put 500 miles on it this weekend with no issues
I was having the fog horn sound in parking lots and at slow speeds and air in the system "whining" after hwy driving. The system is a poor design and runs out of fluid allowing air to get into the system one tech said he can reproduce this on the lift. I replaced the solid cooler with a finned cooler with hoses about 30.00 a new Reservoir about 20.00 and ran a 34" loop replacing the hose on the finned cooler that goes to the reservoir "closer to the front of the vehicle" I think it was 7/32 hose and there is a TSB on the older models to USE 3/8 PS low pressure hose. That was about 6.00 and some fresh ATF+4 and knocked every possible known issue out in one shot. I don’t think the TSB calls for the 34" hose if using the finned cooler there is an older TSB to just install a longer hose where I replaced the 4" or so hose with the 34" hose. This is done under the cooler which mounts in the factory holes using the same bolts as used on the solid cooler style. This all mounts to the alumunum crossmember under the vehicle below the rack and pinion.

bearcat_96

11-17-2008, 01:51 PM

Thanks for this post. I tried the turkey baster deal, it helped for a few months, but when the noise came back I dropped $25 and did the resevoir change. Silence is golden. Thanks again.

Stangman

11-18-2008, 07:02 PM

I went the backwash route today and replaced the fluid. I used a drill mounted pump to get the fluid out of the reservoir and then I inserted the ps pump return hose into a plastic bottle before firing up the engine and getting out the remaining fluid. I could see the fluid going in the plastic bottle from the driver's seat and I was able to shutoff the engine once it stopped puking (a one person job).

Once I got the reservoir off, I soaked it several times with parts cleaner and there was plenty of gunk coming out of it. I found it was very effective to swish the cleaner around inside and then shake it out with the reservoir opening facing down into a bucket. After awhile it was coming out clean and I then blew it out with the compressor to dry it and get any more loose particles. I reinstalled, topped up with ATF +4, ran it, topped it up again and viola!!!.... after a few minutes of running everything calmed down and it is now smooth and quiet. :beerchug:

Thanks for the great help of this forum. I am sure the "stealer" would have soaked me pretty good for this one if i didn't know what it was. I had one of them tell me that it's likely the steering rack a few weeks ago :nut:.

If it acts up again I will replace the reservoir, however, the backwashing appears to have worked fine for now. I'll keep track of the mileage and let you know if (when) it happens again. :headbange

CharlesP

11-18-2008, 11:01 PM

I have a 2002 Town and Country with 108,000 and I am having a "whine" sound on cool mornings. I took it to my mechanic, who told me about a recall, because his wife as a Dodge 2002 minivan. I can't find anything about this recall. Does anybody know anything about this?

Same thing just started on my '02 T&C w/108k, the temperatures down here have just dropped into the 40's. Going to try the backwash and ATF+4 route, thanks to all who posted suggestions and solutions!

samtheman22

02-14-2009, 12:57 AM

Thanks for the info. I had the same problem. Changed the reservoir and the problem is gone. I tore apart the old reservoir and sure enough, the screen was clogged. Thanks again for your help.

sheldon!

02-15-2009, 01:21 PM

ditto!

RIP

02-15-2009, 03:37 PM

I read many threads about power steering problems cause by this stinken screen issue. Has anyone just removed the screen and run it as is or maybe added an inline filter? Seems like a more economical fix. My 3rd generation 96 has no screen and has worked just fine for 206K miles. I've changed the fluid once only because I could.

blupupher

02-15-2009, 04:19 PM

Jeepman cut his apart and the screen is next to impossible to get to to remove.

An inline transmission filter would probably work just fine, since it is designed for use with transmission fluids and pressures.

My '05 is making a little noise, but not too bad. I just did the adding fluid all the way to the top of the resivoir and that seemed to help a little. I may try to just flush it out (I am cheap) instead of replacing it this summer.

Jeepman

02-15-2009, 04:44 PM

Jeepman cut his apart and the screen is next to impossible to get to to remove.

An inline transmission filter would probably work just fine, since it is designed for use with transmission fluids and pressures.

My '05 is making a little noise, but not too bad. I just did the adding fluid all the way to the top of the resivoir and that seemed to help a little. I may try to just flush it out (I am cheap) instead of replacing it this summer.

Thanks.
RIP: The pictures of the cut open reservoir can be found at http://forum.chryslerminivan.net/showthread.php?t=11444

Blupupher: I believe adding more fluid lessens the possibility of air getting back to the pump, hence less / no noise. The dirty filter restricts flow and lack of sufficient fluid in the upper portion of the reservoir and/or aerated fluid in the upper portion of the reservoir is the result, which in turn means air gets pack to the power steering, hence the noise.
For the amount of work that is involved (a small job with proper tools), I would srtongly recommend you replace the reservoir now so you can enjoy a quieter power steering immediately and for a longer time. You deserve it. :thumb:

RIP

02-15-2009, 04:55 PM

Jeepman - That's quite the monstrocity of a filter. How about fitting a generation 3 reservoir? No filter there. I'm guessing it would have to be installed on some kind of adaptor plate to mount. Only for the more talented among us. Might be nice if some company came up with a retrofit design. Lots a wishfull thinking there. Thanks for posting those pics. They spoke a thousand words.

2002CaravanSE

02-15-2009, 05:10 PM

Power steering systems functioned for decades with integral reservoirs and no filters,why Chrysler had to mess with success like this is beyond me.Millions of Dusters,Valiants,Coronets,Aspens,K cars.....survived for 100K+ miles without major PS failures as did millions of GM,AMC (not Fords though) vehicles,so why they felt the need to mess with their system like that is one of life's bigger mysteries.

chengny

02-16-2009, 09:54 PM

Personally, I love that sound - it's like I'm moving a 747 around the runway to get ready for take off.

It is caused by cavitation - the forming of minute bubbles within the fluid stream at the power steering pump inlet and (here is where the noise comes from) the subsequent collapsing of these low pressure pockets when they reach the higher pressure (discharge) side of the pump.

While there can be many reasons for cavitation; in this case it is caused by an overly fine screen in the strainer - (not filter, strainer, there is a difference). It was designed with a mesh that is way too fine for this particular application. I have my thoughts as to why this engineering fiasco happened in the first place... discussed in detail below.

To eliminate the cavitation you can do any of the following: reduce the viscosity of the fluid in the system, clean the strainer, cut it out or just poke a hole in it.

I firmly believe that Chrysler deliberately over-engineered the fluid filtration requirements of this hydraulic system and that is what is causing the strainer to foul so frequently. It (the cavitation problem) is so common on these vehicles and yet is virtually never heard of on any other car or truck.

I have a gut feeling that it was a panicky, last-minute decision made when someone brought up the question of what would happen if thousands and thousands of the power steering fluid coolers, that are mounted under the frame, ever started getting torn out.

Judging from their vulnerable position (the fins of my 03 T&C actually extend below the frame) this was probably perceived as a distinct possibility. Obviously, Chrysler would have had to do huge recall and find a new place for the cooler. This procedure would have involved tearing into a pickled hydraulic system and relocating the cooler itself. Along with that, it would have required renewing and relocating several pieces of tubing and hoses.

As good as their techs are, mistakes would have been made during these modifications. So, anticipating this scenario, they decided to over protect the suction side of the pump from any contamination picked up in the conversion (should a massive recall ever occurred).

As it turned out, the coolers - even as exposed as they are, have never presented a problem. So now we are stuck with an under-sized filter screen that quickly picks up even the normal particulate matter that forms in all non-hermetically sealed piping systems over time. Normally this stuff will just kind of find an "out of the flow" stagnant pocket and settle out there. It never reaches the hydraulic pump, piston or any other close tolerance components.

At this point it would probably be safe to disable (read poke a hole in) or entirely remove the screen. If you are reluctant to do this for fear of particulates reaching the pump, cut the hose leading to the pump suction and install a renewable, inline (gas filter) type filter. This has been suggested by many other contributors to this forum.

Jeepman

02-16-2009, 11:03 PM

Screens in the power steering reservoir have been used by others, including Honda, as far back as 1992. Mazda and Mercedes would be a couple others to check for their use. My guess is that with the use of ATF+4 in their power steering system, Chrysler figured it could put a fine screen in the system and it would work. And it has to a certain degree, just needs to be replaced every so often.
Think about it. The intention of the screen is to catch particles. The better it does its job, the more likely it is to get dirty and need replacing.

chengny

02-17-2009, 10:00 AM

Sorry for the misunderstanding. I certainly did not mean to imply that filter screens/strainers are not used by any other manufacturer in their power steering systems. I only was stating my opinion that Chrysler's mesh pitch is way too fine for the application (and my theory as to why).

Also, and I hope that I don't come across as being confrontational, I can't see where ATF+4 (or 3 for that matter) has any place in this discussion. It has always been my understanding that they (Chrysler) developed that particular hydraulic fluid as a last ditch effort to save their butts regarding the 41TE transmission and its predecessor the A604. The fact that they call for ATF+4 in the steering hydraulics is purely to maintain continuty. Power steering systems have been in use for decades and the modern Chrysler system is no huge departure from that tried and true standard.

I am confident that with that overly-fine mesh strainer removed (or substituted with a coarser mesh) any industry standard hydraulic fluid would function just as well as ATF+4.

Excuse me now while I climb down from my soapbox.

Thanks for listening (reading?).

2002CaravanSE

02-17-2009, 10:25 AM

I'm thinking that when +4 was developed,it turned into such a good,long lasting fluid,why wouldnt one put it in the power steering system? Far superior to Dexron,Mercon,PS fluid,Type F...so,one less warranty area to worry about (if not for the darned screen).
Cardone recently did a survey of aftermarket power steering fluids(not including +4),after taking in a rash of warranty pumps.They all had the same bushing failure/wear scenario.Seems most aftermarket fluids do NOT have proper lubricant qualities.There is no standard for PS fluid.The OEM stuff tested good as did CRCs P/S fluid.You would think something that looks like a lubricant would be a lubricant,but alas always is not the case.Like companies getting spanked for selling DOT3 brake fluid when it doesnt meet FMVS standards.A lot of the stuff you see in a department store (or even Wally World) may not be acceptable for your (or any) vehicle.At least we can feel confident using WM,Mopar,Castrol....+4 that its the real deal.

Jeepman

02-17-2009, 03:30 PM

Personally, I think the fine mesh screen in the power steering system is a good thing. Many Manufacturers are using them and their power steering systems squeal as well.

The screen serves a purpose and should save the power steering system some. It seems to have been overlooked in the Owner Manual as a maintenance item unfortunately. Chrysler have left us in the lurch on that one - basically, don't maintain, replace when it acts up.

Unfortunately, customers can be ripped off when all manner of other power steering components are replaced that don't need to be, once the noise is reported.

mmahamm

02-17-2009, 04:00 PM

I read many threads about power steering problems cause by this stinken screen issue. Has anyone just removed the screen and run it as is or maybe added an inline filter? Seems like a more economical fix. My 3rd generation 96 has no screen and has worked just fine for 206K miles. I've changed the fluid once only because I could.

Seems to me that by the time you remove the screen and add an inline filter, you have spent more time and about as much money as you would have if you just replace the reservoir. Since the reservoir is also a filter, it's not a big deal just to swap it out at 100K miles.

2002CaravanSE

02-17-2009, 04:10 PM

Many pumps are replaced needlessly due to this design flaw.Gives the shop an excuse to replace some expensive parts.

packerduf

02-17-2009, 08:51 PM

Seems to me that by the time you remove the screen and add an inline filter, you have spent more time and about as much money as you would have if you just replace the reservoir. Since the reservoir is also a filter, it's not a big deal just to swap it out at 100K miles.

Perhaps the in-line filter would prevent the screen from clogging so quickly, thus making it a one-time repair. Or at least requiring only a filter change every 50,000 miles. The filter could be swapped out much quicker than the reservoir.

chengny

02-18-2009, 12:24 AM

You are all missing my point - and I won't belabor it any further after this.

There is absolutely no need for such a tight filter/strainer in this application (or any other similar small closed hydraulic system). How on earth is all this presumed particulate matter that could damage the pump, rotary control valve, pistons etc. supposed to enter the fluid medium in the first place?

I will grant you that occasionaly a bit of dirt may fall from the underside of the hood and into the resevoir while checking the level, but other than that, what? I can't imagine how anything other than a catastrophic component failure would generate the kind of trash that would require filtration. But by then it would be a moot point, right?

I don't mean to compare apples to oranges but, I have a 1986 GMC K2500 that still has the original power steering system in place. Not one single component has ever been changed, nor has the hydraulic fluid ever been renewed. There is no strainer in that system and ... guess what? It doesn't ever make a peep - unless I take it to the stops and the relief valve lifts.

RIP

02-18-2009, 12:36 AM

You are all missing my point - and I won't belabor it any further after this.

There is absolutely no need for such a tight filter/strainer in this application (or any other similar small closed hydraulic system). How on earth is all this presumed particulate matter that could damage the pump, rotary control valve, pistons etc. supposed to enter the fluid medium in the first place?

I will grant you that occasionaly a bit of dirt may fall from the underside of the hood and into the resevoir while checking the level, but other than that, what? I can't imagine how anything other than a catastrophic component failure would generate the kind of trash that would require filtration. But by then it would be a moot point, right?

I don't mean to compare apples to oranges but, I have a 1986 GMC K2500 that still has the original power steering system in place. Not one single component has ever been changed, nor has the hydraulic fluid ever been renewed. There is no strainer in that system and ... guess what? It doesn't ever make a peep - unless I take it to the stops and the relief valve lifts.

Oh I bet they get your point. They just don't whole heartedly agree. Not the end of the world. Just a common occurrence on a forum.

packerduf

02-18-2009, 01:13 AM

.....How on earth is all this presumed particulate matter that could damage the pump, rotary control valve, pistons etc. supposed to enter the fluid medium in the first place?......

Something is clogging up the screen in these reservoirs - this we know. If I understand you correctly, you are saying that whatever is clogging up the screen is not significant enough to cause damage to an otherwise unfiltered system?

I certainly don't have any facts to argue otherwise, but the following questions come to mind: Why is it in there in the first place, and why didn't Chrysler eventually remove it to resolve the steering noise problem? :ask_wsign

Jeepman

02-18-2009, 04:26 PM

You are all missing my point - and I won't belabor it any further after this.

There is absolutely no need for such a tight filter/strainer in this application (or any other similar small closed hydraulic system). How on earth is all this presumed particulate matter that could damage the pump, rotary control valve, pistons etc. supposed to enter the fluid medium in the first place?

I will grant you that occasionaly a bit of dirt may fall from the underside of the hood and into the resevoir while checking the level, but other than that, what? I can't imagine how anything other than a catastrophic component failure would generate the kind of trash that would require filtration. But by then it would be a moot point, right?

I don't mean to compare apples to oranges but, I have a 1986 GMC K2500 that still has the original power steering system in place. Not one single component has ever been changed, nor has the hydraulic fluid ever been renewed. There is no strainer in that system and ... guess what? It doesn't ever make a peep - unless I take it to the stops and the relief valve lifts.

Keeping it simple (KISS) makes sense. My Jeep has no screen or filter or cooler, it works.

There is something going on with power steering design, hence the coolers, use of transmission fluid, and the screen. It's not just Chrysler doing this. For those interested, here's an abstract regarding a patent for a low silhouette power steering fluid reservoir found at http://www.freepatentsonline.com/6220283.html :

Title:
Low silhouette power steering fluid reservoir
Document Type and Number:
United States Patent 6220283
Abstract:
A reservoir for power steering fluid includes an upright housing that forms an upper interior space for storage of a reserve fluid supply, and a lower interior space containing a fluid filter.* Fluid connectors are provided** for causing fluid to flow in a circumferential swirling pattern as it moves through the filter, such that the flowing fluid has a relatively long residence time in the lower portion of the reservoir for achievement of an effective cooling action. The fluid filter is connected in a return line from the power steering unit to the associated pump, so that filtered liquid is supplied to the pump. The fluid filter is preferably a flat disk-like filter unit located in a horizontal plane between the inlet fluid connector and the outlet fluid connector.
FNT *The upper interior space and lower interior space containing a fluid filter are separated by a frusto conical partition. Residence of the fluid above the frusto conical partition allows air entrained in the fluid to escape.
FNT **below the frusto conical partition.

There must be a source of information somewhere that explains what is gong on with power steering design these days and the benefits expected. Whatever is going on may seem stupid, but I doubt that it is in actuality.

d3300

02-18-2009, 08:00 PM

Keep on mind not all ATF+4 is created equal, with a new reservoir I still had cold start whining with the Valvoline +4, I did a few drain (suck) and fills on the reservoir with castrol +4 and diminished it almost completely.
Hey, like somebody mentioned before, hydraulics dont like restrictions on the suction side!!

06 SXT
David

Slyder

03-16-2009, 12:55 AM

I looked at mine and am doing this soon. Mine just started making "the noise" coincided with my sway bar bushings :blink:
I looked at the reservoir and felt underneath it and can't find a 10mm bolt on the bottom. Any one got a pic??
There is a press pin type thing that is on the reservoir bracket and then looks to go into the coil pack bracket, but no bolt

http://i423.photobucket.com/albums/pp320/propboy941/Caravan/pin1.jpg

http://i423.photobucket.com/albums/pp320/propboy941/Caravan/pin2.jpg

-Slyder

sideburns2009

03-16-2009, 02:21 AM

What about power steering whine on my 3rd gen? Any fixes for that?

shipo

03-16-2009, 08:36 AM

What about power steering whine on my 3rd gen? Any fixes for that?

Our 1998 developed a power steering whine after about 130,000 miles, and all I did to cure it was to use my oil extractor to evacuate the reservior, and then refill it with ATF+4. After the first time I did that the whine almost completely disappeared. That was all of the encouragement that I needed so I did it twice more (a couple of weeks apart), and the power steering system became completely quiet and stayed that way up to the 170,000 mile mark where I traded it in.

shipo

03-16-2009, 08:38 AM

I looked at mine and am doing this soon. Mine just started making "the noise" coincided with my sway bar bushings :blink:
I looked at the reservoir and felt underneath it and can't find a 10mm bolt on the bottom. Any one got a pic??
There is a press pin type thing that is on the reservoir bracket and then looks to go into the coil pack bracket, but no bolt

-Slyder

Due to the location of the bolt, I'm thinking that the likelihood of someone being able to provide a picture sits somewhere between slim and none. IIRC, the bolt that you're after is accessed from the firewall side of the reservior, down underneath the coil packs. A long extension for your socket will make the job easier.

sideburns2009

03-16-2009, 08:45 PM

Our 1998 developed a power steering whine after about 130,000 miles, and all I did to cure it was to use my oil extractor to evacuate the reservior, and then refill it with ATF+4. After the first time I did that the whine almost completely disappeared. That was all of the encouragement that I needed so I did it twice more (a couple of weeks apart), and the power steering system became completely quiet and stayed that way up to the 170,000 mile mark where I traded it in.

I tried this. The same fresh ATF+4 has been sitting in the reservoir for about 2 weeks. It's not pulling it in and pushing up the old dark fluid.

shipo

03-16-2009, 09:08 PM

I tried this. The same fresh ATF+4 has been sitting in the reservoir for about 2 weeks. It's not pulling it in and pushing up the old dark fluid.

Hmmm, I'm thinking, "Not good". If the fluid isn't circulating back up to the reservior, then you've got a problem that is going to require at the minimum, hose replacements, if not the pump or heaven forbid, the rack itself. Sorry to be the bearer of bad tidings (we're all getting enough of those these days as it is).

2002CaravanSE

03-16-2009, 09:39 PM

If the pump is working and the steering has power assist,fluid HAS to be circulating.The pump needs fluid to pump,it draws that from the reservoir,after it has worked thru the rack,it needs to come back to the reservoir to allow space for more high pressure fluid to make it from pump to rack.

Slyder

03-16-2009, 10:52 PM

I took a bunch of pics as I did mine tonight

Removing the lines from the manifold for more room, just pull them off
http://i423.photobucket.com/albums/pp320/propboy941/Caravan/P1060666.jpg

Here are the two clamps that hold the feed/return lines on
http://i423.photobucket.com/albums/pp320/propboy941/Caravan/P1060668.jpg

I back flushed mine and it still does it. Looks like I'll be replacing the whole thing.

-Slyder

2002CaravanSE

03-16-2009, 11:15 PM

I left the bottom nut backed off just enough to accept the reservoir when pushed downward.This way,if it needs to come off for a coil replacement or whatever,I just remove the top 2 bolts and pull it upward.Why they have that bottom stud at all is a mystery.Its not like the jug weighs 10 lbs.

sideburns2009

03-16-2009, 11:21 PM

If the pump is working and the steering has power assist,fluid HAS to be circulating.The pump needs fluid to pump,it draws that from the reservoir,after it has worked thru the rack,it needs to come back to the reservoir to allow space for more high pressure fluid to make it from pump to rack.

Well when backing out of the driveway I make a full right turn, put it in drive, then turn back to the left to head down the road. When I turn back left it makes a "honking" noise. Reminds me of a goose or something. I'm guessing its the power steering pump as the rack is gears and it shouldn't "honk".

Slyder

03-16-2009, 11:23 PM

I left the bottom nut backed off just enough to accept the reservoir when pushed downward.This way,if it needs to come off for a coil replacement or whatever,I just remove the top 2 bolts and pull it upward.Why they have that bottom stud at all is a mystery.Its not like the jug weighs 10 lbs.

I did the same thing, left it loose, it just supports the tank no need to tighten it down.
-Slyder

alm99

04-15-2009, 03:59 PM

Just to clarify, the ATF-4 is the automatic transmission fluid correct?

shipo

04-15-2009, 05:24 PM

Just to clarify, the ATF-4 is the automatic transmission fluid correct?

Actually it's called ATF+4. :)

alm99

04-22-2009, 12:52 PM

The power steering fluid seemed to be low. It was below the “add” on the reservoir. I went ahead and sucked out as much of the old fluid as I could and refilled with ATF+4. Completely silent. No more barking seal, dieing/howling dog sound at start up. Also, no more whine when turning the wheel.

dun4now

04-22-2009, 03:06 PM

OK. It cost me about $117 at the dealer: New Reservoir $ 27, + 2 Qts ATF+4 $18, + Labor $72
He says the problem is very common above 50K miles or 75K for sure.
The reservoir has 2 lines: the large rear one goes to the pump suction. The other smaller one is the return. He took the return line off, cranked the engine, and turned the wheel so that fluid ran into a bucket vs. back into the reservoir. When it starts to "puke" (his word) meaning the system is out of fluid, he put just maybe a cup or so of new fluid into the reservoir to let it pump this out as well. (To be sure all the old is out) Then quickly shutting the engine off. (two person job) Now the steering system is empty. Next, he replace the reservoir and refilled the fluid, after re-attaching the return line.
All work is up top on the engine and quiet easy to get to. It took them about 35 minutes to do.
The Result? I cannot be SURE until in the morning, but I FOR SURE can already tell a difference, the power steering is really quiet. The tech said the old oil was really dirty looking. Kinda looks like this thing needs a filter added so that it can be changed, but the whole plastic reservoir is not real expensive.
The job is a little messy as the "puking" splattered some fluid on the exhaust which had the burn itself off, so if you try it yourself I suggest a rag maybe over the return line down into the bucket.
I could have done this myself now that I see how he did it, but it's DANG cold down here today and I wanted it done.
The hose you see on the right in the picture is the one that returns fluid to the reservoir.
http://i15.tinypic.com/72rsv8m.jpg
There is some discussion that they might someday do a recall on this; I am saving my ticket.

Maybe you could mate a longer hose to the return line for the flush to reach the bucket!:beerchug:

emailman

05-06-2009, 07:37 PM

Thanks so much!!

I did mine yesterday, it was really bad and getting worse. it's a 2002 w 109K and now it is as quiet as a church mouse. Was an easy fix. My stealer wanted to change the rack and pinion for big$$$$$$. I started looking around the web for filter info, came here, joined and now saying thanks.

sideburns2009

05-06-2009, 08:22 PM

Thanks so much!!

I did mine yesterday, it was really bad and getting worse. it's a 2002 w 109K and now it is as quiet as a church mouse. Was an easy fix. My stealer wanted to change the rack and pinion for big$$$$$$. I started looking around the web for filter info, came here, joined and now saying thanks.

Maybe someone should print out this whole thread and present it to Chrysler. Maybe they are unaware that changing the reservoir will fix such an issue. Of course they probably like the money they rack in.

mmahamm

05-07-2009, 06:18 PM

Maybe someone should print out this whole thread and present it to Chrysler. Maybe they are unaware that changing the reservoir will fix such an issue. Of course they probably like the money they rack in.

On the other hand, if we tell them about this, think of all the money they'll rack in by telling little old ladies that this is a 2-1/2 hour long, very sophisticated job, to remove and replace the power steering reservoir, hoses, screws, bushings, knobs, tethers, and doohickeys, and then just changing it out at very low cost.

barbarino

05-08-2009, 04:38 PM

Wow big thanks to the OP about this fix!

My GF's 2002 6 cylinder with 150k on it had the loudest noise so I tried this and it worked, in fact I was not prepared for it to work so well, you can't hear it anymore! She is blown away! I am blown away! It's night and day! What ever you do, try this quick fix first before you take it to a mechanic.

The dam bottom bolt was a problem, because I couldn't get the back hose off, seems it was welded on there, so I figured if I could get the unit off the van I could twist it and it should come off the hose. No dice! Couldn't get that bolt off with the hose on, so I went to plan B. Took my vice gripes and broke the plastic tube inside of the hose by squeezing really hard. It broke off and I was able to extract the rest once the unit was off. I guess if you have a similar problem you could hack saw the hose off as close to the unit as possible. The hose is long enough that you could lose 1/2 an inch if you had to.

I didn't tighten the bottom bolt, I hand tightened it and agreed with others on here, the top 2 bolts are all you need.

I also put in some lucas stop leak...

Make sure you put towels all around it before you start you will drip oil, also when I filled it up and fired up the van I had a feeling it would need more and I was correct, it took another half of a bottle.

So don't put it on fill it up and drive off! Run it and check it!

Turkey baster worked flawlessly.

Again, big thanks!

Lugnut

05-08-2009, 04:50 PM

barbarino,
Did you do the pump-out method or did you just remove the fluid from the reservoir and replace that amount? Lugnut

barbarino

05-08-2009, 05:35 PM

barbarino,
Did you do the pump-out method or did you just remove the fluid from the reservoir and replace that amount? Lugnut

I did the turkey baster and only took out the reservoir fluid. I did this for 2 reasons.

1. I've been filling it up a lot since it's leaking so all the fluid is new
2. I now have a new filter to catch anything that was stuck in there.

I would say a complete pump out is better, but not necessary. But you could burn your pump out if you are not careful since no fluid would be going thru it.

I would like to point out I was nervous (still am) because I spilled oil on the coil, so if I had to do it all over again, I would put plastic over the coil. Coils are expensive!

PCE Scott

05-09-2009, 09:57 AM

Wow big thanks to the OP about this fix!

The dam bottom bolt was a problem, because I couldn't get the back hose off, seems it was welded on there, so I figured if I could get the unit off the van I could twist it and it should come off the hose. No dice! Couldn't get that bolt off with the hose on, so I went to plan B. Took my vice gripes and broke the plastic tube inside of the hose by squeezing really hard. It broke off and I was able to extract the rest once the unit was off. I guess if you have a similar problem you could hack saw the hose off as close to the unit as possible. The hose is long enough that you could lose 1/2 an inch if you had to.

I had the same problem (getting the hose seperated from the reservoir). Good idea to just break the connection. I was wondering if this happened to anyone else since I did not see it mentioned.

Lugnut

05-09-2009, 06:41 PM

PCE Scott,
Did you get the hose off yet? Or did you hack saw it? I ordered a new hose along with the resorvoir. Lugnut

PCE Scott

05-11-2009, 01:14 PM

No, back when I was working on this I just put it back together and refilled it. I did not want to put a whole lot of time into it. I may change the reservoir this summer.

daffoo

06-08-2009, 10:45 AM

After reading a post about the PS reservoir I had my mechanic replace it. He looked at me like I was crazy but is now a believer. I think the part was around $25 and a half hour of labor. 5,000 miles later there is still no PS whine.

gatorpapa

06-22-2009, 02:54 PM

First of all I want to say this is a wonderful site! I recently bought a 2005 Town & Country in great shape overall for a cross-country camping/road trip my wife and I are about to take. The van, like almost all vehicles with a few miles on them (our T&C has 64,000) needed a bit of work. One minor problem was a growling noise during low speed steering which brought me to this site, and boy, am I glad I found it. Instead of replacing the entire rack and pinion assembly, like a local dealer told me I needed to do, I instead, after reading a number of posts, replaced the power steering reservoir myself for a grand total of $37. The noise is gone. Then today, the malfunction indicator light came on. Once again I turned to this site and learned that Autozone checked out the computer readings for free. Off I went to my local Autozone where I discovered my computer had thrown no codes at all. According to the technician, my van simply suffered what he called a "computer hiccup" brought on by the intense heat we're currently experiencing here in Florida. I've also learned a whole lot of other things about my van from the well-informed folks on here. So thanks to all. I truly appreciate it and am delighted to have joined this online community.

roberev

07-19-2009, 06:11 PM

July 2009:

After reading this thread, I decided to tackle/replace the power steering reservoir. It was as easy as described. . . . and it has completely resolved the "whining" noise in my power steering.

My car: 2001 Grand Caravan Sport w/3.3 liter engine

Steps:

1) I recommend that you disconnect the battery (both terminals). I made the mistake of laying my arm on top of the positive terminal as I was trying to loosen the 10mm bolt w/ a ratchet/socket. A little jolt reminded me to disconnect the battery. A sweaty arm will conduct current.

2) Removed filler cap and used turkey baster to suck out 85% of power steering fluid.

3) Removed 8mm bolts that attach reservoir on top.

4) Pulled two vacuum hoses out of the housing located above the reservoir (easy to take off and reinstall by hand - no tools required).

5) Loosened 10mm bolt located under the reservoir, which you must access from behind. I used a 10mm deep socket with extension. Once I got the socket on the bolt, I attached the 1/4" ratchet. I did not have to remove the bolt . . . only loosened it.

With the reservoir loose, I was able to maneuver it around to get good access to the two hoses that were attached to the reservoir.

7) Used adjustable jaw pliers to squeeze and move hose clips out of the way.

8) Shoved tiny screwdriver between hoses and housing to break seal/connection. I did not pry up on the hoses out of fear of splitting them.

10) Used pliers to wiggle hoses until they turned. Once they turned they slid off of the reservoir with ease. When I removed the hoses, I was careful to keep the reservoir level to avoid spillage of the remaining 15% of fluid.

Install was the reverse of removal, except that I bolted the new reservoir in before reinstalling the hoses.

Thanks for the instructions and tips guys! Special thanks for the warning about the difficulty in removing the hoses. Being fore-warned by this thread, I was able to be fore-armed with a can of penetrating oil. It did the trick. Hose removal was no problem.

Rob

Dave Maher

07-19-2009, 07:36 PM

I had a noisy pump too on my 01 T&C. The best idea I came up with and it worked great was to put the van on ramps and get underneath with a drainpan. I then pulled one side off the power steering cooler on let it drain right into the pan. After a minute I put it back together and got up top. I took off the resevoir and tried to blow thru it and I was very suprised of the restriction that there was. I flushed the resevoir in the parts washer for awhile and the dried it wath compressed air. Put it back together and the sound is gone.

Robbie

09-01-2009, 08:49 PM

First post here and all I can say is THANKS! My wife's van has had a noisy power steering for what seems like forever. Not only noisy but the steering would shudder, or vibrate, loudly. After reading this thread I went to a dealer a purchased a reservoir and ATF+4. With the tips here it only took about 30 mins to remove and replace. The result was total quiet! WOW!!!

To make things better another fix to a seperate problem was found on this site too (AC fan only operates on high speed). Bought the part (at the same time I purchased the redervoir) and followed directions found here. This repair took all of 5 mins. Between the noisy steering and loud AC (always on high) we could never hear a conversation or listen to the radio. I now have a quiet van and a quiet wife ;)

Thanks all. Great site!

shipo

09-01-2009, 09:12 PM

First post here and all I can say is THANKS! My wife's van has had a noisy power steering for what seems like forever. Not only noisy but the steering would shudder, or vibrate, loudly. After reading this thread I went to a dealer a purchased a reservoir and ATF+4. With the tips here it only took about 30 mins to remove and replace. The result was total quiet! WOW!!!

To make things better another fix to a seperate problem was found on this site too (AC fan only operates on high speed). Bought the part (at the same time I purchased the redervoir) and followed directions found here. This repair took all of 5 mins. Between the noisy steering and loud AC (always on high) we could never hear a conversation or listen to the radio. I now have a quiet van and a quiet wife ;)

Thanks all. Great site!

That's one of the big reasons why we're here. :beerchug:

jpf5987096

09-28-2009, 08:51 PM

My 2003 T&C power steering pump would make a howling noise. Mine started out only after it was first started up. I was able to resolve this by filling the reservoir to the top. However, it begain the howl again after it had been driven for more that an hour or so.

I read this posting and decided to replaced the reservoir. Hopefully this will resolve the howling on long trips.

I took the reservoir apart and found the filter screen almost completely covered with gunk.

:ThumbsUp:

Loud screeching sound plagued my '01 Voyager 3.3limmediately after startup. Although the noise would go away after few minutes, it sounded hideous.

I tried some suggestions from this board, such as swapping the starter under the theory that the starter gear was not retracting. Changing the serpentine belt also made no difference. Another suggestion that marginally helped was siphoning and replacing much of the fluid in the power steering reservoir.

After digging deeper, I learned that the reservoir has a screen within it that tends to clog. I purchased a new one from Chrysler for less than $30, along with high-end power steering fluid, and replaced it. Now, the noise is completely gone.

Here is how to change it. The reservoir is on top of the engine and is very accessible. To swap it, siphon out as much fluid as possible. You can use a turkey baster, but remember that turkey-day is around the corner. Next, remove the two bolts on top of the reservoir with an 8mm socket. Then use pliers to remove the two hoses clamps connected to it. There were two unrelated tubes that were in the way, which pulled off by hand and made clearance easier. There is one bolt underneath the reservoir that needs to be loosened (not removed) with a 10mm socket. Removing the two hoses from the reservoir took penetrating oil and muscle, even with the clamps removed. Overall, it took about 45 minutes and was not too difficult. I now consider replacing the reservoir as a maintenance item for higher mileage vans. Hope this helps.

zulater69

10-17-2009, 01:49 AM

Sorry, I went through all pages of this thread and couldn't find the reservoir part#?

When I believe Jeepman showed the cut-away of his old reservoir, he had a box which was labeled with Mopar Part# 1-04743012aa; I did an internet search on this part and came up with nothing.

I am looking for this part, but not locally. Unfortunately, my local dealer will not budge on parts pricing and has been historically very high on every part I have inquired about.

Anyone?

Thank you.

RIP

10-17-2009, 02:52 AM

Google 04743012aa. Lot of hits that way.

markho

10-17-2009, 10:31 AM

Thanks very much for this information. My steering makes the whine but is cured by filling the resevoir "TO THE TOP" as mentioned here in the archives. I now know what to check for first. I will make a donation for this info!:ThumbsUp:

PCE Scott

10-17-2009, 09:16 PM

I bought a new reservoir at my dealer a month ago and replaced it and the whine did not go away. Before I put the new one on I checked to see if it was marked with any sort of build date but did not find anything. So, maybe I got an old version.

I think the whine is quieter but it is definately not gone.

BlackOnBlackCobra96

10-17-2009, 10:13 PM

Did you also swap out the fluid?

jgbat

10-18-2009, 12:55 AM

I bought a new reservoir at my dealer a month ago and replaced it and the whine did not go away. Before I put the new one on I checked to see if it was marked with any sort of build date but did not find anything. So, maybe I got an old version.

I think the whine is quieter but it is definately not gone.

Be sure to fill the reservoir to the top, no matter if it is the a new one or old one...

Carbuff2

10-18-2009, 11:35 AM

Be sure to fill the reservoir to the top, no matter if it is the a new one or old one...

Let me mention my experience with that advice.

I replaced my PS fluid with fresh ATF+4 when we got our van, at 61K miles, two years ago.

It has never exhibited any cold whine.

BUT a few months ago, the steering started to "vibrate" during parking maneuvers (high pump loads). Similar to as if you were scuffing a clean finger across glass.

At that time I filled the PS to the brim. No change in the symptom. But when I next checked my engine compartment, there was PS fluid that had blown out of the top of the reservoir, all over the ignition coil pack. :blink: :angrya: So, I suspected that the screen was clogged.

This weekend I finally got around to changing the reservoir (not difficult, but the big hose was difficult to remove, it was stuck tight) and compared the air coming out of the big outlet when I blew into the small pipe. (Yes, it tasted yummy! :eekkkk: :cry: :nut: Bill Clinton was right: it's not wise to inhale.) :lol:

It was quite obvious that the OE reservoir was plugged. Little air out the old one...a nice breeze out the new one.

Problem solved.

PS To verify: the part number on the box was 1-04743012AA. I bought from a dealer because all the online pictures indicated a square reservoir mounted to the fender.

Jeepman

10-18-2009, 12:53 PM

Let me mention my experience with that advice.

I replaced my PS fluid with fresh ATF+4 when we got our van, at 61K miles, two years ago.

It has never exhibited any cold whine.

BUT a few months ago, the steering started to "vibrate" during parking maneuvers (high pump loads). Similar to as if you were scuffing a clean finger across glass.

At that time I filled the PS to the brim. No change in the symptom. But when I next checked my engine compartment, there was PS fluid that had blown out of the top of the reservoir, all over the ignition coil pack. :blink: :angrya: So, I suspected that the screen was clogged.

This weekend I finally got around to changing the reservoir (not difficult, but the big hose was difficult to remove, it was stuck tight) and compared the air coming out of the big outlet when I blew into the small pipe. (Yes, it tasted yummy! :eekkkk: :cry: :nut: Bill Clinton was right: it's not wise to inhale.) :lol:

It was quite obvious that the OE reservoir was plugged. Little air out the old one...a nice breeze out the new one.

Problem solved.

PS To verify: the part number on the box was 1-04743012AA. I bought from a dealer because all the online pictures indicated a square reservoir mounted to the fender.

The top for the reservoir has an "o" ring gasket around it. If defective, it can allow air in. The problem seems to due to fluid starvation (plugged screen) and / or air entering the system (sometimes cured by filling reservoir up more).
When filling the reservoir up more, I would still leave some small air space to allow for expansion.

This is an interesting read and includes a Chrysler Bulletin referring to the reservoir replacement. http://www.justanswer.com/questions/7zwn-power-steering-pump-filter
I noted this information:

10. Inform the vehicle owner/operator that a steering vibration may be noted for a few hundred miles until the air is completely removed from the steering system.

PCE Scott

10-18-2009, 05:15 PM

I have mine filled about halfway between the fill line and the top. I was concerned about overfilling and having too much fluid/pressure in the system since the fluid gets rather hot. Did I change all of the fluid-- no. I had thought the point of the "new" reservoir was because there was a new filter medium in the reservoir so that is why I am assuming I received an older part since I had some lessening in the whining sound but it is not gone.

RIP

10-18-2009, 05:38 PM

96 GC 207K miles, no filter, no whine, no nothing for 14 years. Why oh why did Chrysler stick that contraption on these vans?

Carbuff2

10-18-2009, 11:25 PM

Jeepman said:

The top for the reservoir has an "o" ring gasket around it. If defective, it can allow air in. The problem seems to due to fluid starvation (plugged screen) and / or air entering the system (sometimes cured by filling reservoir up more).Yeah, the OE (yellow) cap had a blue (nitrile?) O ring on it that was in good shape.

The new reservoir (packaged July 2009) included a new (black) cap. Seemed to be no tighter than the old one, FWIW.

I forgot to mention that our van now has 79K miles on it. :beerchug: The ATF+4 fluid I took out this weekend was still red and nice-looking. I had filled it to just below the tops of the slots in the filler neck before it overflowed, FWIW.

BSAKing

11-04-2009, 06:08 PM

Does this also apply to a growling sound in the PS? People are speaking of a whining noise - the '02 caravan here does not have that, but it does get a growling sound in the PS from time to time. Does this reservoir fix address this as well?

At $26 - $36 USD, its worth it to change the reservoir if the van has over 60 K miles on it. It WILL need changing, eventually! :violin:

sammydad1

11-17-2009, 09:11 AM

Hi,

WOW !!! Glad I found this thread !!!

We have a 2003 Grand Caravan SE that I otherwise really enjoy....OTHER than the whining from the power steering system that has been going on for some time.

Had the rack & pinion replaced...then the power steering pump....noise went away for a month or so....then guess what....it came back !!!

Took it back to the shop for another opinion, of course it was warmed up by the time they test drove it, so all they said was the fluid was a little low....noise was reduced for a few days....but it never went away....

SOOO...after reading thru this thread, I was going to order a new reservoir from the local Dodge dealer....I figured that if the power steering pump has been starved of fluid because of the filter being blocked in some manner, the faster "repair" would be to do a "filter-bypass" of sorts....

So I went in my screwdriver drawer and found the longest pointiest and thin phillips screw driver I had. Removed the reservoir cap, cleaned it up some in the process.... And I probed ever-so-delicately down the throat of the reservoir... When I felt it bottom out, I pushed a little harder and felt it penetrate into the next layer. I pulled the screwdriver out and moved it about 90 degrees inside the throat and repeated my process.....so in all I had four probe points into the next layer....

I added some fluid to bring the level back up to full (cold) and fired that mother up (to quote Charlie Daniels).... And what did I hear ??? NOT a darn thing... (well just the normal engine running sounds...)

Power Steering had "blood" flow once again.... Mom was right...I shoulda been a doctor.

NOW...many are about to ask if I just contaminated my power steering system with debris.... I will answer "maybe", but in my guesswork, there was or may be more damage to the system from having starved the pump of fluid for some time rather than what debris may have been dislodged by my "By-pass" surgery.

Personally, in all my years of driving, I can't even recall an instance of having to replace a power steering pump from internal damage....

SO I thank you wise people once again for this thread. I hoist a cold Dundee's Honey Brown Lager in your honor !!!

RIP

11-17-2009, 08:42 PM

I was hoping someone would try that and post it. Happy to hear your enginuity was a success. Only thing to add would be to flush the reservoir with a solvent or fluid with it removed to avoid debris. BTW - My 96 has never had a filter and 14 years and 207K miles later is still working fine.

jgbat

11-17-2009, 09:33 PM

One hint, fill it up to the top of the bottle. Not to the full mark. I mean fill it all the way to the top. Like to where it almost pushes some out when you put the cap on it.

Jeepman

11-17-2009, 09:43 PM

Hi,

WOW !!! Glad I found this thread !!!

We have a 2003 Grand Caravan SE that I otherwise really enjoy....OTHER than the whining from the power steering system that has been going on for some time.

Had the rack & pinion replaced...then the power steering pump....noise went away for a month or so....then guess what....it came back !!!

Took it back to the shop for another opinion, of course it was warmed up by the time they test drove it, so all they said was the fluid was a little low....noise was reduced for a few days....but it never went away....

SOOO...after reading thru this thread, I was going to order a new reservoir from the local Dodge dealer....I figured that if the power steering pump has been starved of fluid because of the filter being blocked in some manner, the faster "repair" would be to do a "filter-bypass" of sorts....

So I went in my screwdriver drawer and found the longest pointiest and thin phillips screw driver I had. Removed the reservoir cap, cleaned it up some in the process.... And I probed ever-so-delicately down the throat of the reservoir... When I felt it bottom out, I pushed a little harder and felt it penetrate into the next layer. I pulled the screwdriver out and moved it about 90 degrees inside the throat and repeated my process.....so in all I had four probe points into the next layer....

I added some fluid to bring the level back up to full (cold) and fired that mother up (to quote Charlie Daniels).... And what did I hear ??? NOT a darn thing... (well just the normal engine running sounds...)

Power Steering had "blood" flow once again.... Mom was right...I shoulda been a doctor.

NOW...many are about to ask if I just contaminated my power steering system with debris.... I will answer "maybe", but in my guesswork, there was or may be more damage to the system from having starved the pump of fluid for some time rather than what debris may have been dislodged by my "By-pass" surgery.

Personally, in all my years of driving, I can't even recall an instance of having to replace a power steering pump from internal damage....

SO I thank you wise people once again for this thread. I hoist a cold Dundee's Honey Brown Lager in your honor !!!

A lot of vehicles have the fine mesh screen in the reservoir these days, including Toyota and the noise problems are similar.
In your case, I would add a Magnefine in line filter to the 5/16" return line right away. You have gone from the power steering starving for fluid to dirt being continuously circulated (which can't be good or the screen wouldn't have been there in the first place). :thumb:

tcwagner1

11-17-2009, 11:57 PM

One hint, fill it up to the top of the bottle. Not to the full mark. I mean fill it all the way to the top. Like to where it almost pushes some out when you put the cap on it.

I would add, when fully warm, fill it to near the top of the large part of the reservoir. That is what the mechanic at the Dodge dealer did. But look down the throat of the res. when it is running and see if it is cavitating or the fluid is just sitting there, indicating starvation. Mine looked like a red vortex, it just went low down in the res when filled to the FILL line.

sideburns2009

11-18-2009, 01:47 PM

My 3rd gen whines. I have emptied the reservior and the hose connected to it and filled with fresh ATF+4. Well that was months ago. The reservior is still filled with fresh ATF+4 and it was never circulated. Power steering is noticeably easier when warm than when cold. The whine isn't very loud but is noticeable. Also when backing out of my driveway, I make a full right lock with the steering wheel and once i'm in the street I turn left to head straight down the street. When I turn left the steering "honks" and I can feel it in the steering wheel. Never have figured out what it was coming from.

linkg01

01-04-2010, 07:07 PM

What a lifesaver,, thanks to all who replied with info concerning the power steering reservoir replacement. I was getting ready to bring it to a mechanic but will try it myself now.

HudsonJoe

01-06-2010, 12:44 PM

I'd also like to say thanks to those who took the time to write up this fix. I installed a new PS reservoir over the holidays, and while the screen on the old one didn't look very dirty, the groaning is gone. Thanks!
- Joe

Jeepman

01-06-2010, 01:14 PM

I'd also like to say thanks to those who took the time to write up this fix. I installed a new PS reservoir over the holidays, and while the screen on the old one didn't look very dirty, the groaning is gone. Thanks!
- Joe

Hello all. I have been lurking the forums with the same problem and cleaned my reservoir... problem solved. Thanks :headbange

I also found this video on Youtube that helped me:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sx1w2YGN_0s

DodgeCaravan2003

01-23-2010, 03:39 AM

hello, i'm in the process of changing the reservoir, i removed the fluid with a turkey baster and took off the return hose and emptied that by draining to a bottle by turning the wheel to the left and right for about 10 seconds. I refilled it with atf+4 steering fluid as well turned the wheel to the left and to the right to let the air out. I looked at the the fluid in the reservoir and noticed its pink. I believe this is air in the fluid. Is this correct?

andyg

01-23-2010, 03:49 AM

It may have become areated during the bleeding process. This means you will have to monitor the fluid level over the next few days as the bubbles dissipate.

Carbuff2

01-23-2010, 09:57 AM

hello, i'm in the process of changing the reservoir, i removed the fluid with a turkey baster and took off the return hose and emptied that by draining to a bottle by turning the wheel to the left and right for about 10 seconds. I refilled it with atf+4 steering fluid as well turned the wheel to the left and to the right to let the air out. I looked at the the fluid in the reservoir and noticed its pink. I believe this is air in the fluid. Is this correct?

Fresh ATF+4 is SUPPOSED to be pink.

:thumb:

Air in the fluid will purge itself over a few days' operation. Be sure to make a few full-lock turns in each direction. (Don't hold the steering wheel at full lock...just turn it till it stops, then turn it the other way. Try and have the van rolling when you do this.)

jgbat

01-23-2010, 11:48 AM

Fresh ATF+4 is SUPPOSED to be pink.

:thumb:

Air in the fluid will purge itself over a few days' operation. Be sure to make a few full-lock turns in each direction. (Don't hold the steering wheel at full lock...just turn it till it stops, then turn it the other way. Try and have the van rolling when you do this.)

Or put the front end in the air, that is the best way on the tires and steering system. Just make sure both sides of the van are properly supported by jack stands... Again, STANDS, not just 2 jacks...

ccurtin

01-30-2010, 04:12 PM

I did this job today. Very straightforward with all the tips on here! Thanks.

One tip for the nut on the bottom of the reservoir: I used a 6" extension and the ratchet closer to the firewall vs the engine. It allowed me to get around all the hoses and vacuum lines.

Can a moderator PM how to make a donation? This saved me some serious money so I'd like to support the forum.

Chris

blupupher

01-30-2010, 05:36 PM

Hmm, there used to be a "Make a Donation" button, but I don't see it now.
I sent Glen a PM about it.

multicap

02-07-2010, 09:08 AM

Reservoir replacement not only cured morning squeal, but also a very scarey loss of of power assist ( 3 times ) lately, - also mostly when cold.
Did it myself, did not flush the system (had not read the thread completely), but will re-empty the reservoir and refill a few times - easier than messing with the hoses.
2001 T&C 3.3L 120K miles - bought from my original-owner neighbor (now thats faith !) - He never worried about "That slippin' fan belt".

tonymacchiaroli

02-24-2010, 04:11 PM

I removed and cleaned the power steering reservoir, thanks goes to whoever found that 10 mm nut on the bottom, that had to be loosened. It was almost imposable but after you figure it out it is easy. I unloosened the nut before I disconnected the hoses. You can go straight in from the back with a deep socket and a 6” extension. The hoses were difficult to remove; I used a small screw driver and WD40. I cleaned the reservoir by spraying break cleaner in the large supply hose opening and letting it come out the top. The way I purged the system, reinstalled the reservoir connected the large supply line, hooked a tube to the return line opening about 1 ft up, so the fluid would not leak out of the reservoir, added a tube to the return tupe and put it in a large soda bottle. Poured new ATF+4 in the reservoir while my wife started the engine and moved the steering wheel from right to left.
The fluid is very clean now, previously I had drained and refilled the reservoir a couple of times and the fluid always looked dirty.
Thanks for the help.
Tony

dcmasta

08-12-2010, 09:39 PM

i bought the recommended 5/8" hose and i can't get the son of a $R^W#$%^@$%^ on the pump end. any ideas?

springerrr

12-31-2010, 03:22 PM

The whine went to a moan went a shriek. People on the street turned to watch as my wife drove by. Dobbs told my wife we needed a new steering pump for which they asked a mere $500 to replace. You saints knew differently. Removing what I believe are vacuum lines makes for easier access, but, for godsake be careful. I almost attached the vacuum line to the reservoir...same sized hose. I used pump pliers (http://www.eclipsetools.com/ProductPics/Latest%20.jpegs/100-030thru100-032.JPG) to loosen the large hose which was a bit stuck on. The job took about 45 min.

Thank you, thank you all!!

paart

01-01-2011, 09:06 PM

The PS on my '01 T&C started getting increasingly noisy over the last 6 months or so. Rather than replacing the reservoir, I tried changing the fluid. I siphoned out all I could, and replaced it with "4+". I drove it a short distance. and repeated the procedure. It's been quiet ever since. It could be worthwhile to change the fluid as soon as noise becomes noticeable, and possibly avoid a more expensive repair.

Jeepman

01-01-2011, 10:22 PM

Sometimes the noise can be due to air getting into the system. 5 or 6 turns of the steering, lock to lock, should get rid of that.
If your vehicle has been up on a hoist and the front wheels turned manually (no power steering), air may be introduced into the system and the noise will subsequently occur.

suprvulcan

01-03-2011, 05:46 AM

I had this issue twice in the last year. The first time I simply pulled the resevior. and cleaned the screen and topped off the fluid. After the sound came back I pulled and cleaned the resevior again but also did an additional step. I plugged the return inlet on the resevior and extended the return hose out to a bucket and filled the resevior as the engine pumped out the old fluid. CAUTION the fluid pumps out much faster then you can poor it into the resevior, it only takes a few seconds to empty the resevior. I turned the wheel lock to lock and started\stopped the engine several times until all the old fluid was out of the system. I used a standard power steering fluid that stated it was safe in mopars. Noise has not returned.

mmahamm

01-04-2011, 01:42 PM

The PS on my '01 T&C started getting increasingly noisy over the last 6 months or so. Rather than replacing the reservoir, I tried changing the fluid. I siphoned out all I could, and replaced it with "4+". I drove it a short distance. and repeated the procedure. It's been quiet ever since. It could be worthwhile to change the fluid as soon as noise becomes noticeable, and possibly avoid a more expensive repair.
I did the same years ago on my 03. After a few months, I finally gave in and replaced the reservoir. IMHO that's a more permanent fix.

carlosandcamy

01-05-2011, 12:59 PM

Loud screeching sound plagued my '01 Voyager 3.3limmediately after startup. Although the noise would go away after few minutes, it sounded hideous.

I tried some suggestions from this board, such as swapping the starter under the theory that the starter gear was not retracting. Changing the serpentine belt also made no difference. Another suggestion that marginally helped was siphoning and replacing much of the fluid in the power steering reservoir.

After digging deeper, I learned that the reservoir has a screen within it that tends to clog. I purchased a new one from Chrysler for less than $30, along with high-end power steering fluid, and replaced it. Now, the noise is completely gone.

Here is how to change it. The reservoir is on top of the engine and is very accessible. To swap it, siphon out as much fluid as possible. You can use a turkey baster, but remember that turkey-day is around the corner. Next, remove the two bolts on top of the reservoir with an 8mm socket. Then use pliers to remove the two hoses clamps connected to it. There were two unrelated tubes that were in the way, which pulled off by hand and made clearance easier. There is one bolt underneath the reservoir that needs to be loosened (not removed) with a 10mm socket. Removing the two hoses from the reservoir took penetrating oil and muscle, even with the clamps removed. Overall, it took about 45 minutes and was not too difficult. I now consider replacing the reservoir as a maintenance item for higher mileage vans. Hope this helps.

I did mine on Monday and decided to change the reservoir instead of just flushing it. Works and sounds great now! Thank you so much for the info.

Oh yeah, about those unrelated tubes you have to remove for easier access, be very careful if you have a real thin one. Don't do like I did, I did not read the whole post and assumed the thin one was a hose. Thinking it was a hose I just removed it in a hurry and SNAP! the tube was broken. The thin tube line I broke was for the speed control and they are $39 (U.S) at the stealership. Luckily my local pick-n-pull was well stocked with 2002 grand caravans so I ended up paying $2 (U.S) for the speed control vacuum harness. Also if you do snap it don't try to replace it with hose, as I found out the hose is not rigid enough for the amount of vacuum the speed control uses.

Up next the dreaded sway bar bushings and an oil filter adaptor.

Justin Kerns

02-21-2011, 12:54 AM

Another newbie on this forum thanks to my recently acquired 2001 T&C LXi with 108k on it. It is basically solid except for *loud* steering and numerous front end clunks. After studying this thread and others I just replaced the fluid reservoir & flushed the system myself. Thanks to everyone who has contributed to this topic for their help!

I paid $37 for the rerservoir at my local dealer here. They had 3 on the shelf, which is unusual for them and parts, and they told me they do a lot of them so keep them stocked well. I paid $3.77 at Wal-mart for a quart of ATF+4. That was my total investment in this project.

My process was similar to those already described but I'll share a couple of little things I learned during mine. The dreaded invisible nut was not really hard to find. If you look at the lower bracket from the front you can see the head of the bolt and so you know basically where it pokes through on the back side. I reached my finger back underneath and felt it. I used a deep 10mm socket with extension and 1/4" drive and just did it by feel - no need to see it to loosen it up. By the way I've seen differing info on the bolt sizes of the 2 up top and 1 underneath - everything ranging from 8mm to 12mm. For what it's worth all 3 of mine were 10mm.

I didn't have a suitable apparatus to drain the reservoir so I unbolted it, tilted it a bit and removed the return hose. With the reservoir tilted it didn't spill out and I put the return hose in a bottle. Then I started the van and turned the wheel side to side as described in this thread and was able to see the bottle by standing outside of the van with the door closed and the window down. Once it starts puking reach in quick and shut it off. I then removed the supply hose from the reservoir and ended up not spilling any fluid with this method. Like others have said I filled the new reservoir overfull then ran the van for a bit while turning the wheel. I then shut it off and had to put quite a bit more fluid in. I filled it almost to the top and used almost 1 quart of ATF+4 total.

Drove it a bit more today and the noise is completely gone! My wife is amazed at the improvement and wants to know why Chrysler didn't design it better. That's another thread....

Now it's on to the front end. I have determined both swaybar links are shot and while I'm under there I'm going to do the bushings also. Making progress!

Thanks,
Justin

orprepus

03-28-2011, 04:39 PM

I am having a noise problem in 97 TC LXi 3.8L. I think it is the power steering - not the idle pulley since I replaced both of them already. Added some fluid to the reservoir and the noise went away for a few days. Now it is back. Wondering if replacing the reservoir would help - after reading this thread seems like it would however - my reservoir does not have a return hose it just has a feeder hose to the pump. So I am thinking do I even have a filter being that there is no return from the pump or am I missing something?

thanks Orp

andyg

03-28-2011, 04:43 PM

I am having a noise problem in 97 TC LXi 3.8L. I think it is the power steering - not the idle pulley since I replaced both of them already. Added some fluid to the reservoir and the noise went away for a few days. Now it is back. Wondering if replacing the reservoir would help - after reading this thread seems like it would however - my reservoir does not have a return hose it just has a feeder hose to the pump. So I am thinking do I even have a filter being that there is no return from the pump or am I missing something?

thanks Orp

You have no filter in a 3rd gen. I would recommend changing the fluid if it is original (most likely unless parts have been replaced). You basically suck the fluid out of the system with a hand pump down the hose and refill. I do this twice a week apart and it gets most the old stuff out.

Jeepman

03-28-2011, 07:00 PM

Orprepus:
Wonder if you might have air in the system. If so, turn the wheels lock to lock about 5 times while moving very slowly (like in a vacant parking lot) to see if that provides any relief.

If the front wheels have been off the ground recently and moved back and forth while in the air, that could introduce air into the system.

Like andyg says, your reservoir is not prone to the same problems as the 4th Generation, which has a fine mesh screen in the reservoir and fluid flow through the reservoir (two pipes).

orprepus

03-28-2011, 07:43 PM

Thanks for the idea about getting the air out. I took off the reservoir - drained it first with the turkey baster - than attached a hose to the turkey baster and stuck it down the hose to get as much fluid out that I could. Will refill and try to get the air out.

Thanks

Orp

tyguy

04-03-2011, 01:13 PM

Many thanks to those in this thread. I changed my reservoir out and now the pump is silent. Still didn't save my rack and pinion, though, as a seal leak on the passenger side necessitated a recent replacement. At least the pump is still original!

hockeypuck

07-30-2011, 01:13 PM

so glad... no more noise. The hardest part was getting the supply hose off. 27 bucks and my local dealer, less than a quart of atf4. :cool:

grimmster

08-20-2011, 05:01 PM

OK, I'm stuck. I have everything apart except I cannot get the outlet hose off the old reservoir! I have been trying for over an hour and it is just stuck on there with no hope of coming off. How have people removed that hose?

Jeepman

08-20-2011, 05:36 PM

OK, I'm stuck. I have everything apart except I cannot get the outlet hose off the old reservoir! I have been trying for over an hour and it is just stuck on there with no hope of coming off. How have people removed that hose?

Pry with a screwdriver or grip the hose some with vicegrips to twist it just enough to break whatever bond there is with the nipple. That usually works for me.

grimmster

08-20-2011, 06:23 PM

Finally had to get a second set of hands to help hold the hose and then twist the old reservoir.

New one in place and the whine is gone, though I started to fill the new one before i had the return hose in place, so 1/2 quart of atf+4 to clean up off the garage floor. Other then those two things, all is good.!

n8nabbey

03-17-2012, 11:34 AM

Just posting my two cents worth here. My 06 GC has developed what I thought was the power steering noise described above but now I am not so sure. My first fix was to clean the reservoir, which had no effect. Then I replaced the reservoir and still no change. There are no driveability issues so far...just what I consider an abnormal and loud whining noise, passenger compartment feet, at idle or slow speeds (obviously can't be heard on highway or with radio on). As I have seen in other posts here and on other forums...the only other symptoms so far, which are intermittent, are "stuck" steering wheel sometimes after it has been sitting for awhile (temp. not an issue...occurs in cold or warm weather) and on two occasions pulling off highway to refuel a more noticeable screeching sound when slowing down. I'm hesitant to start replacing expensive parts at this point (idler pulley, ps pump, alternator)...but do want it fixed in the event it fails on a trip.

FYI, I did take it to a mechanic to get their opinion. They were none the wiser...they didn't even know, or think it was correct, that the manufacturer recommended ps fluid is ATF+4!!! Note to self...don't go back to that mechanic!

Jeepman

03-17-2012, 02:46 PM

Lots of Mechanics don't know about ATF+4 for power steering fluid, even after all these years. If you give it to them to use, they will tell you it's the wrong stuff or "you have given me transmission fluid, what's up with that".

A good Mechanic should be able to pin point the source of the noise using a stethoscope. Worn power steering pumps will cause a whine. Replaced mine (2002) last year to get rid of the whine.

cvguy

03-22-2012, 10:24 AM

Just finished the PS reservoir job, and wanted to add my experiences and thoughts to this really helpful thread. To anyone thinking about doing this job, please don't be put off by the length of what I'm writing. You may think that a big write-up means a tough job, but that's really not the case at all. Just lots of detailed info (which I think is important), but the work is actually so much easier than the length of this post might make it sound like.
What I did for the "hidden" 10mm nut was use a regular socket along with a 3" and 6" extension. Then I started by positioning this assembly (with no wrench attached), at the back of engine, under the pump hose. Then it gets pushed forward past the coil wires, and onto the nut that's hidden under the reservoir body. Unless you have a really large hand, you should be able to locate the end of this bolt with a finger. I was able to touch the end of the bolt with my right hand and use that as a position guide to push the socket (extension) with my left hand onto the nut. Once the socket+extensions are on the nut, there is enough room at the back of the engine to attach and turn the wrench in order to get the nut lose. This was MUCH easier to actually do than it might sound.
I also had decided to try getting rid of the fluid via the small hose port, instead of pulling it out the top. So after losening the hidden nut, and removing the 2 bolts on the top, I pulled the reservoir up, and slipped a small plastic pan (6x8x2") under it. Then disconnected the small hose and was able to get most of the fluid out by just turning it (took the cap off after draining some out). When it stopped dripping, the bottom of the reservoir was wiped off, the plastic pan removed, and a large rag placed under the reservoir, in order to disconnect the large hose.
I had good luck using a very large, extra long slip pliar, but I think a large vise grip would probably work just as well. What worked for me with both hoses was to use very short, agressive turning motions - back and forth a number of times holding the pliar/hose hand steady with the rotation happening on the reservior side. The grip of the tool on the hose has to be solid enough to not bugger up the hose, but at the same time not too tight to prvent breaking the seal. Keeping the rotation as short as possible seemed to be the key, and I was able to get both hoses off inside of 30 seconds each.
I didn't try to clean the old part - just didn't seem to make sense, given the $26 cost of the new one (and not needing to use cleaning fluid further reduces the "net" cost as well).
Don't know if the things I did would work as well for others, but it really made this job go smooth for me. And once again, MANY thanks to all of the folks who posted previously - that information was a HUGE help in getting this job done the easy way :thumb:

mikevee

01-10-2013, 10:39 AM

I own a 2007 town and country with power steering whine. Van has 110,000 miles on it. 3.8 liter engine. I changed the power steering reservoir and whine disappearred. While changing reservoir I flushed out power steering fluid. After putting on new reservoir I kept return hose disconnected and end of it into plastic milk jug. Upon emptying discarded p.s. fluid into waste container I noticed a black themoplastic plug about 2 inches long and 1/4 inch in diamter with a hole through it from end to end. Took it to chrysler dealer and they didn't know what it was. Got van put back together, whine completely gone but I had a new noise. Whenever I turned the wheel at a stop the steering would shudder or vibrate for a few seconds. Driving while van in motion, no shuddering or vibration. Turns out the plastic plug is actually a restrictor Chrysler uses to prevent the shuddering I felt. I put the restrictor back in the return hose and shuddering and vibration disappered. Apparently when you buy a new return hose the plug is in there from thr factory. Hope this helps.

jee34

09-29-2014, 02:17 PM

Somebody here has a picture of the "return line restrictor" ?

Jeepman

09-29-2014, 03:22 PM

Somebody here has a picture of the "return line restrictor" ?

That's an interesting question as I have heard about the restrictor on the return line (smaller line) to the reservoir, but have not come across it on my vans when replacing the reservoir. If there, one would think it would be back in the line a 3" or 4" and clamped like one on a return hose from NAPA (#35762) for the Vans. http://www.yoyopart.com/oem/11553624/napa-35762.html
It's made by Gates as part #357620 and sold by several auto parts places: http://www.carpartkings.com/gates-power-steering-return-line-hose-assembly-357620.html The clamp shown on the line is actually crimped in place.
Seems a little dumb for a 5/16" or 3/8" line going to a plastic nipple that could have controlled the size.
I have heard (read on other Forums) of people removing the restrictor to get rid of problems.

Carbuff2

10-11-2014, 07:20 PM

I just replaced my reservoir again....it's been 5 years and 40,000 miles. I bought my replacement reservoir in 2012 so it the steering must have been shuddering that long.

:angrya:

I fished around for a restrictor in the return line (used a long cable tie) but didn't find one in either line.

Jeepman

10-11-2014, 10:49 PM

I just replaced my reservoir again....it's been 5 years and 40,000 miles. I bought my replacement reservoir in 2012 so it the steering must have been shuddering that long.

:angrya:

I fished around for a restrictor in the return line (used a long cable tie) but didn't find one in either line.

Take a look along the smaller line (return to reservoir) and about 12" from the reservoir you will see a clamp on the rubber line, that clamp holds the restrictor in place.

jee34

10-11-2014, 11:27 PM

I perforated the screen in my reservoir today,thinking it might help to get rid of the whining noise.Result: Slightly quieter,not much of a difference.This week i'll replace the steering gear.

Carbuff2

10-12-2014, 10:34 AM

Take a look along the smaller line (return to reservoir) and about 12" from the reservoir you will see a clamp on the rubber line, that clamp holds the restrictor in place.

Saw that clamp. Was thinking that might be it. It's right down by the rack (where the hard metallic line begins).

Looked to be a Kilometer away... :lol: Perhaps the next time I have the cowl off, I'll remove the line and assure that the restrictor is clear.

jrb98391

10-19-2014, 12:09 PM

I'm in the process of replacing the PS reservoir on a 2004 Caravan SXT. Had no trouble removing the screws and nuts and return hose. But I am having trouble removing the supply hose (the larger hose of the two). I removed the clamp (the one you pinch to open it up). But underneath it was what looks like another clamp of some sort but it could just be part of the hose reinforcement. The hose is probably the original factory version. I don't see any obvious method to remove this 2nd possible clamp and i don't want to damage the hose if I can avoid it. Right now I can't get the hose to come off or even move a little bit.

Jeepman

10-19-2014, 12:25 PM

I'm in the process of replacing the PS reservoir on a 2004 Caravan SXT. Had no trouble removing the screws and nuts and return hose. But I am having trouble removing the supply hose (the larger hose of the two). I removed the clamp (the one you pinch to open it up). But underneath it was what looks like another clamp of some sort but it could just be part of the hose reinforcement. The hose is probably the original factory version. I don't see any obvious method to remove this 2nd possible clamp and i don't want to damage the hose if I can avoid it. Right now I can't get the hose to come off or even move a little bit.

Should only be one clamp holding the hose to the nipple. Sometimes a light twist with vice grips or some prying with a screw driver is needed to break the bond between the hose and the nipple. Then it will come off fairly easily with some twisting back and forth.

I don't understand the second clamp you mention unless it is a non-removable crimped clamp holding a restrictor in place in the line. If so it should have nothing to do with the hose/nipple connection. The nipple has an expanded ring near its end the same as the smaller nipple has. Any other clamp should be beyond that.

jrb98391

10-19-2014, 12:54 PM

Thanks for response. I may try and post a picture of this 2nd "clamp" later today. But to add some additional info to my original post, this additional possible "clamp" was right underneath the "pinch" clamp which I was able to remove using my pliers. The location of the 2nd "clamp" is about 1" from where the nipple attaches to the reservoir and it's before the expanded ring.

Jeepman

10-19-2014, 01:55 PM

Thanks for response. I may try and post a picture of this 2nd "clamp" later today. But to add some additional info to my original post, this additional possible "clamp" was right underneath the "pinch" clamp which I was able to remove using my pliers. The location of the 2nd "clamp" is about 1" from where the nipple attaches to the reservoir and it's before the expanded ring.

Isn't that just rusted remains/imprint of the clamp you removed.

jrb98391

10-19-2014, 05:59 PM

Yes I think you are correct. It's not rusted but apparently the pinch clamp left a silver impression on the hose that made it appear (to me) like there was another clamp there. Thanks for your help. Now I need to work on trying to get the hose off of the nipple.

Carbuff2

10-19-2014, 06:46 PM

That hose really sticks...even the second time it is removed.

Patience, my son...

jrb98391

10-20-2014, 02:25 PM

I finally got the hose off early this morning and installed the new reservoir, bled the system, etc. Unfortunately I still have a shudder or vibration coming from the front right side of the vehicle when turning to the right or left. So I may be looking next at replacing the pump (but I'll have someone else do this if I decide to go in that direction).

Jeepman

10-20-2014, 02:34 PM

A weak pump will likely give you a whine.

Even the condition of the tires can influence shudder. New rubber is good, worn, hard rubber is bad. The shudder on my 2002 GC disappeared with the worn all season tires I took off it last winter. Put on new Rovelo winter tires, which I ran the past summer as well, and no shudder. Front tires had 7.5/32th tread depth when I rotated them last month. Rears had 10/32ths. New was 11/32th.

jrb98391

10-20-2014, 03:47 PM

Thanks again for your advice. The shuddering/vibration issue appeared over night a few days ago while the vehicle was parked (in my garage) so it's kind of a mystery why this occurred. I'm probably going to let my local mechanic take a look at see what he thinks. Maybe get the PS fluid flushed and see if that helps. Probably the last inexpensive thing I can try.

Jeepman

10-20-2014, 04:19 PM

Thanks again for your advice. The shuddering/vibration issue appeared over night a few days ago while the vehicle was parked (in my garage) so it's kind of a mystery why this occurred. I'm probably going to let my local mechanic take a look at see what he thinks. Maybe get the PS fluid flushed and see if that helps. Probably the last inexpensive thing I can try.

Check the air pressure in your tires and make sure that's okay.

Do you have any cv joint noise, like clicking when turning in a parking lot?

jrb98391

10-20-2014, 05:08 PM

No clicking noises that I'm aware of. Also I raised the vehicle so the front tires were off the ground and the steering still had the shuddering/vibration. Car's in for a flush right now and I should find out if that helps this evening.

jrb98391

10-20-2014, 09:49 PM

Flushing the PS fluid didn't help. So now I need to decide where I'm going to take the van to have the problem diagnosed and then decide if I want to spend the money to fix it. :(

GopherGuy

10-21-2014, 09:03 PM

Just want to add my thanks to those who posted all the good information in this thread. I spent ~$30 on a new reservoir and a quart of fluid to fix my annoying whine, I'm sure I saved at least $100 by doing it myself.

Mucho Gracias!

itsallgood

10-21-2014, 10:04 PM

Just want to add my thanks to those who posted all the good information in this thread. I spent ~$30 on a new reservoir and a quart of fluid to fix my annoying whine, I'm sure I saved at least $100 by doing it myself.

Mucho Gracias!

Might be a warn out rack and pinion. I just replaced ours last week because of a shudder/vibrating when turning the wheel left or right very slow. That fixed the problem. I did replace the power steering reservoir and both power steering lines as well.

jrb98391

10-21-2014, 11:15 PM

Did you replace it yourself or have it done? Cost?

itsallgood

10-23-2014, 01:50 AM

Yup, did it myself. The rack was re-manufactured from Auto Zone with lifetime warranty for $160 w/core. Those power steering lines was a PITB to get at. I found out that later, if you remove the wiper assembly, you can get at them much easier and faster. The hardest part was the lines. Using air tools is a must for this job. Took me 4 days around 16 hrs total. (I could have done it in 12 hrs, if I thought about removing the wiper assembly at the beginning.) Take lots of pictures, for reference, so when you start to put stuff back together.

Jeepman

10-23-2014, 08:52 AM

Yup, did it myself. The rack was re-manufactured from Auto Zone with lifetime warranty for $160 w/core. Those power steering lines was a PITB to get at. I found out that later, if you remove the wiper assembly, you can get at them much easier and faster. The hardest part was the lines. Using air tools is a must for this job. Took me 4 days around 16 hrs total. (I could have done it in 12 hrs, if I thought about removing the wiper assembly at the beginning.) Take lots of pictures, for reference, so when you start to put stuff back together.

That's a PITA job without a hoist. Even then it takes about 4 hours. With all the stuff removed, it's a good time to replace any lines that are hard to get to. Having the wiper tray out sure helps with getting at the high pressure connection to the pump. What did you use for the return line to the reservoir (from the cooler), the factory setup or just hose? What about the restrictor in that line? The steel part of that line concerns me on my Vans, I just keep spraying Fluid Film down there.

itsallgood

10-23-2014, 12:08 PM

That's a PITA job without a hoist. Even then it takes about 4 hours. With all the stuff removed, it's a good time to replace any lines that are hard to get to. Having the wiper tray out sure helps with getting at the high pressure connection to the pump. What did you use for the return line to the reservoir (from the cooler), the factory setup or just hose? What about the restrictor in that line? The steel part of that line concerns me on my Vans, I just keep spraying Fluid Film down there.

For the return line I used the same set up. I just replaced the rubber hose part and keep the factory aluminum hoses. (They don't rust, so no worries. But your right about changing those lines out while having everything apart.

jrb98391

10-27-2014, 06:44 PM

Just wondering if anyone has some thoughts on whether the Dorman 979-303 Reservoir Hose/Cooler assembly would fit on a 2004 3.3L Caravan SXT. It does fit a 2006 and I thought that 2003-2006 Caravans were pretty much identical under the hood.

http://www.rockauto.com/catalog/moreinfo.php?pk=4200201&cc=1432095

blknblu

10-27-2014, 08:59 PM

If you do not have a parts manual, then I suggest I looking up the vehicles on a Chrysler parts website that shows part numbers and compare them.
Also, once you do a lookup, you can see what other vehicles and years that parts fits.

http://www.factorychryslerparts.com/

jrb98391

10-27-2014, 09:48 PM

Thanks for your response. Actually I've done quite a bit of research on this and I'm aware if you check using Chrysler parts websites they say the part is not compatible. I'm trying to add a cooler to the power steering and I'm not finding it easy to locate all the parts needed (to do a 2004). The cooler itself is not hard to find but the rubber and aluminum hoses to go with it are not so easy. And the Dorman part for a 2004 no longer is listed in their catalog, I have visually compared the 2004 part to the 2006 part and the only difference seems to be the reservoir return hose. But when you apply TSB 19-006-05 this hose is discarded and replaced by a rubber hose. So I'm thinking the remaining parts are what I need to retrofit a cooler. Just wanted to see if anyone else had any additional info to add to what I've already discovered.

wattersm

10-27-2014, 09:52 PM

He is correct. i did this myself recently, but instead of waiting two days for the $42 part i disconnected the reservoir, and disarded the old fluid that spilled out. emptied the reservoir, and cleaned with carb cleaner (poured it in). let residual evaporate then rinsed with atf+4. reconnected the old reservoir (that now looked new). filled the reservoir back up with new fluid. Jacked up whole front end so wheels could rotate freely. started car, and poured in more fluid. while car running I then rotated wheels back and forth, and kept adding more new fluid to the reservoir. Once it was at the line and stopped going down, i turned off car. after a few drives, noise went away for good. Cost me $4 on a 1/2 bottle of cleaner.
*old fluid looked sludgy after being removed after a few minutes.
*problem - filter clogged, old fluid was gunk, needed to warmed to **** before it was viscous enough to get through a screen finer than a metal coffee filter, steering system was starving for fluid upon start up

blknblu

10-27-2014, 10:20 PM

Have you tried contacting Dorman?
I have contacted Dorman technical support before and have found them knowledgeable and useful.
http://www.dormanproducts.com/

Jeepman

10-27-2014, 11:24 PM

Thanks for your response. Actually I've done quite a bit of research on this and I'm aware if you check using Chrysler parts websites they say the part is not compatible. I'm trying to add a cooler to the power steering and I'm not finding it easy to locate all the parts needed (to do a 2004). The cooler itself is not hard to find but the rubber and aluminum hoses to go with it are not so easy. And the Dorman part for a 2004 no longer is listed in their catalog, I have visually compared the 2004 part to the 2006 part and the only difference seems to be the reservoir return hose. But when you apply TSB 19-006-05 this hose is discarded and replaced by a rubber hose. So I'm thinking the remaining parts are what I need to retrofit a cooler. Just wanted to see if anyone else had any additional info to add to what I've already discovered.

Your 2004 doesn't have a cooler already? Interesting.

NAPA had a universal cooler and associated hoses so you may check that out. http://www.napaonline.com/Catalog/CatalogItemDetail.aspx/Oil-Cooler-Kit-Power-Steering/_/R-ATP16538_0006401055

They also have a separate return line, cooler to reservoir. NAPA Part # 35762, Gates # 357620 http://www.ebay.com/itm/Gates-357620-Power-Steering-Return-Hose-/380925954909

jrb98391

10-28-2014, 12:50 AM

I'll be implementing TSB 19-006-05 and part of the TSB calls for discarding the aluminum/rubber return line and replacing it with just a long all rubber line. The part I'm having trouble locating is the aluminum line that goes between the pinion housing and the short rubber hose that connects to the inlet of the cooler. If you look on Amazon for Dorman 979-303 you'll see the aluminum hose I referring to.

Jeepman

10-28-2014, 11:16 AM

Junkyard or get a connector piece made up at a hydraulics shop and use a longer hose to the cooler.

jrb98391

10-28-2014, 12:08 PM

As a prior poster suggested I contacted Dorman regarding part 979-135, which is a power steering cooler for the 2004 Caravan including all the necessary hoses and lines. Dorman informed me that this part was not yet in production but should be available in 90 days or so. I'll post an update if and when I see that the part is available.

wreidnotl

11-06-2014, 11:33 AM

I changed mine, still the same !!!! Changed the tensioner pully and the alternator. Still have the noise !!!! At present I have an appointment with a garage to check the noise out for me. I was told first that it came from the alternator (clutch ??) and when I had the belt off I changed out the Tensioner pulley which was suspect. Should have went to the Garage in the first place. !!!!!

Jeepman

11-06-2014, 12:13 PM

What kind of noise. A whine can be from the power steering reservoir being dirty, or a worn power steering pump or maybe the rack itself. A squeal can also be from the power steering i.e. air in the system.

If you take it to a garage, see if he uses a Mechanic's stethoscope to find it. I know an experienced Mechanic that couldn't find a colddddd weather squeal in my 2007 GC. The conditions have to be right sometimes to sort out a noise.

wreidnotl

11-07-2014, 12:08 PM

Just got back from the garage. Cost of repair would be $1000. It wasnt in the steering system at all !!!! It is a faulty water pump !!! Normally waterpumps usually leak but this one did`nt. Also Outlet pipe just about rusted out, Oilpan badly rusted, needs to be changed. Had a look under the van when it was up, and was shocked to see the amount of rust on both sides of the van. Rocker covers gone, just about gone entirely (these are not in the cost) Will do the job myself. Cost of parts alone in Canada C$224.08 in USA Delivered C$167.29 in USA Undelivered C$161.87. Hope this info helps other Caravaners.

Jeepman

11-07-2014, 12:53 PM

Just got back from the garage. Cost of repair would be $1000. It wasnt in the steering system at all !!!! It is a faulty water pump !!! Normally waterpumps usually leak but this one did`nt. Also Outlet pipe just about rusted out, Oilpan badly rusted, needs to be changed. Had a look under the van when it was up, and was shocked to see the amount of rust on both sides of the van. Rocker covers gone, just about gone entirely (these are not in the cost) Will do the job myself. Cost of parts alone in Canada C$224.08 in USA Delivered C$167.29 in USA Undelivered C$161.87. Hope this info helps other Caravaners.

Can you give us a breakdown of the cost for parts, we might be able to help lessen the burden?
Rock Auto have very competitive prices and will quote "delivered" costs, which includes Customs as well. They also have promotions from time to time via promotional # plus Manufacturers' rebates.
The rocker full length panel covers are available locally her for less than $50.00 each.

wreidnotl

11-08-2014, 11:23 AM

Hi Jeepman !!! Rock Auto is the company I buy my parts from, I am now waiting for all the parts to accumulate before I go and get them. The Canadian Company I normally use is AutoParts, but their prices were nearly double. Will look into Rocker panels after I get this ongoing problem fixed. It is funny I never got any leaks from the water pump ??? That is what put me off into looking at steering problems. Thanks for all your info !!! You are doing a Gret Job !!!!!!!

Jeepman

11-08-2014, 04:01 PM

Hi Jeepman !!! Rock Auto is the company I buy my parts from, I am now waiting for all the parts to accumulate before I go and get them. The Canadian Company I normally use is AutoParts, but their prices were nearly double. Will look into Rocker panels after I get this ongoing problem fixed. It is funny I never got any leaks from the water pump ??? That is what put me off into looking at steering problems. Thanks for all your info !!! You are doing a Gret Job !!!!!!!

Thank you.
Power steering can make weird noises, especially in very cold weather. You can actually hear the air going through the pump via stethoscope.

How did they determine it was the water pump:
- took belt off, checked pulley for looseness?
- used a stethoscope?

Sometimes the impellers on water pumps cause problems, the blades wear down, usually accompanied by overheating.

Monidex is one source for body panels: http://www.monidex.com/login.php

wreidnotl

11-09-2014, 02:21 PM

Hi Jeepman !!! He had it up on the lift, which I never had. And showed me the pulley that had a lot of slop in it. I was going off on the wrong tangent, thinking it was the steering as everything pointed that way. I had another problem about a month previous, it concerned the fuse panel (corrosion) will post it when I get time. Have photos !!! Thanks for all your help, it looks like we think alike !!!!

04anniversaryedition

11-09-2014, 11:28 PM

Just got back from the garage. Cost of repair would be $1000. It wasnt in the steering system at all !!!! It is a faulty water pump !!! Normally waterpumps usually leak but this one did`nt. Also Outlet pipe just about rusted out, Oilpan badly rusted, needs to be changed. Had a look under the van when it was up, and was shocked to see the amount of rust on both sides of the van. Rocker covers gone, just about gone entirely (these are not in the cost) Will do the job myself. Cost of parts alone in Canada C$224.08 in USA Delivered C$167.29 in USA Undelivered C$161.87. Hope this info helps other Caravaners.

Welcome to Ontario LOL

What year is your van? The outlet pipe basically goes for anyone who lives in the rust belt, mine went out at a bad time sadly.

My original oil pan is rust free and so is most of my rockers, which is all original...Can't say the same for my front door though. Whatever you do, whenever you decide to replace those rocker panels, try to remove as much foam as you can and check your B and C pillars for weld cracks that could induce water in the rocker panels...

wreidnotl

11-10-2014, 10:21 AM

It is a 1995 Caravan SXT. Had some problems with the Steering rack a few years back. ( seals went and was leaking fluid) Had to change it out !!! I am frightened now as to where I jack it up from. LOL. Live not to far from you, in the Banana Belt.

Jeepman

11-10-2014, 12:34 PM

I gave up on the Magnefine filter idea. Figured it would add more pieces to the puzzle if something went wrong, i.e. the KISS principle applies. More connections to possibly leak too. The cost for the filter locally is very, very expensive as well. Replacement interval on the filter is something like 30,000 miles, they are not lifetime filters. There's a restrictor in the power steering return line, about 10" back from the reservoir, to consider as well.

The Magnefine filters were/are? popular with remanufactured transmissions and were likely included in the package, as an extra precaution, in case the cooler/cooler lines weren't properly flushed.

This article contains very relevant information on the use of the filter: http://www.trailerlife.com/trailer-how-to/trailer-tech/tranny-filter-tech/

I would not recommend installing the filter but rather just replace the reservoir at 30,000 miles or whenever needed. Put the $ saved elsewhere.

06DGC is using a Manefine filter on his transmission return line. Gleaning from his experience may be helpful.

Oooops, I was on the first page of this Thread for some reason. Sorry about that but will let this Post stand anyway. It has good information on the Magnefine filters: http://www.magnefinefilters.com/

Paul I

04-18-2015, 04:19 PM

When I changed the PS fluid in our 2003 Caravan I found a metal restrictor in the return hose. I left it out and the noise and shudder are now gone.

Carbuff2

04-20-2015, 01:40 PM

Just adding some new (?) info

I see that Dorman and APDTY sell aftermarket reservoir replacements now. (This, by searching Amazon)

Jeepman

04-20-2015, 07:26 PM

Just adding some new (?) info

I see that Dorman and APDTY sell aftermarket reservoir replacements now. (This, by searching Amazon)

I have a Dorman unit on one of my Vans. The connections (pipes) seemed rougher for the hoses than the Mopars.

2y4life

11-12-2015, 07:32 PM

It is 38 degrees, got all of the power steering siphoned out, undid all three bolts and the smaller hose but I cannot get the larger hose off. Any tips?

Jeepman

11-12-2015, 07:49 PM

It is 38 degrees, got all of the power steering siphoned out, undid all three bolts and the smaller hose but I cannot get the larger hose off. Any tips?

Pry it carefully with a large screwdriver to break the bond or twist it with a pair of vice grips to break the bond.

Carbuff2

11-12-2015, 08:09 PM

Pry it carefully with a large screwdriver to break the bond or twist it with a pair of vice grips to break the bond.

...and don't feel bad, you are not the first to have difficulty with this hose...and you won't be the last.

It was a struggle for me, too, both the first and the second time I replaced the reservoir. :angrya:

2y4life

11-12-2015, 09:58 PM

If only it wasn't so cold. Feels like it is welded. Will try again tomorrow when it is warmer, thanks

2y4life

11-12-2015, 11:58 PM

Went back and decided I will not sleep until that sucker comes off and with some elbow grease and a small flathead, I was able to pry that sucker off. Used almost an entire quart, likely 3-4 oz left. Seems like the noise went away after the initial whine. Time will tell, hopefully it's gone for good. Thank you fellas, a great forum and community here...who would've known such a community existed for a minivan. Thanks again

Scooter_b

11-13-2015, 01:57 AM

It is 38 degrees, got all of the power steering siphoned out, undid all three bolts and the smaller hose but I cannot get the larger hose off. Any tips?

I use a thin screwdriver to pry up a small portion of the hose and then squirt a small amount of silicon spray into the opening gradually working my way around the perimeter of the hose. This particular hose was rather difficult to get off compared to most others that I run into.

Just my 2¢, I ended up taking off my reservoir and just cleaning it with some brake cleaner before putting back on the car and refilling the system with fresh fluid. I really couldn't see much contaminants when I looked inside the reservoir . I have to say that it is much quieter than before although I can still hear a small amount of whine at low RPMs...

Scooter_b

11-13-2015, 01:59 AM

It is 38 degrees, got all of the power steering siphoned out, undid all three bolts and the smaller hose but I cannot get the larger hose off. Any tips?

I use a thin screwdriver to pry up a small portion of the hose and then squirt a small amount of silicon spray into the opening gradually working my way around the perimeter of the hose. This particular hose was rather difficult to get off compared to most others that I run into.

Just my 2¢, I ended up taking off my reservoir and just cleaning it with some brake cleaner before putting back on the car and refilling the system with fresh fluid. I really couldn't see much contaminants when I looked inside the reservoir . I have to say that it is much quieter than before although I can still hear a small amount of whine at low RPMs.

So the total cost for me was just for the 1 quart of fluid and the few squirts of brake cleaner. If it starts acting up again I'll replace the reservoir next time...

ScuzziOne

11-14-2015, 08:24 PM

Prying carefully with screwdriver is probably better than trying to twist it loose. I tried the twist method and ended up scarring it up so badly that I decided to replace it. Replacement hose costs over $100 at the dealer...

ehound

04-08-2016, 01:19 PM

Thanks for posting this fix! I was preparing to replace the steering pump by searching this forum and YouTube, but noticed this thread. Consequently only replaced the power steering reservoir on my 2006 T&C 3.3L and the hideous circus noise has stopped. Didn't completely drain the fluid or fill it to the top, but still running good after about 100 miles.

shipo

04-08-2016, 01:22 PM

Thanks for posting this fix! I was preparing to replace the steering pump by searching this forum and YouTube, but noticed this thread. Consequently only replaced the power steering reservoir on my 2006 T&C 3.3L and the hideous circus noise has stopped. Didn't completely drain the fluid or fill it to the top, but still running good after about 100 miles.

I've been on this board for nearly ten years now and can only think one or two instances where the new reservoir *didn't* fix a noisy steering rack on a Gen 4 van. :)

LEVY

04-08-2016, 01:30 PM

I've been on this board for nearly ten years now and can only think one or two instances where the new reservoir *didn't* fix a noisy steering rack on a Gen 4 van. :)

Haven't actually seen a power steering reservoir myself, so my question is, can you just remove the old reservoir and clean it?

BillGrissom

04-08-2016, 01:42 PM

... can you just remove the old reservoir and clean it?
Kind of. There is a screen in the bottom, but you can't touch it or remove it. Many try to suck it clean on the engine, using a turkey baster. If you remove the reservoir and back-flow w/ gasoline or ethanol, then blow thru air, it "should work". I bought a new one from a dealer (~$25) on a road trip (2002 T&C 3.8L), but turned out the noise was from a cracked power steering pulley (plastic) that soon stranded us. I recall reading they redesigned that part to metal, perhaps on Toyota's where it originated.

Long post, so don't know if repeating myself, but there is a Chrysler TSB to switch to ATF+4 any time major work is done on the power steering, to help cure whine. This applies to all older vehicles, presumably even 1960's, though must wonder about re-badged Mitsubishi's and such (Dodge Colt, ...). Regardless, I use ATF+4 in my 1980's M-B power steering, despite what those fussy owners say. Most brands are fully synthetic.

shipo

04-08-2016, 01:46 PM

Haven't actually seen a power steering reservoir myself, so my question is, can you just remove the old reservoir and clean it?

New reservoirs are only about $25, and replacing one is far less work than mucking about trying to clean one. Personally I think the $25 is a bargain. :)

Edit: I just looked it up and my local Napa sells them for $25.49; guess I underestimated the price. :p

LEVY

04-08-2016, 02:02 PM

New reservoirs are only about $25, and replacing one is far less work than mucking about trying to clean one. Personally I think the $25 is a bargain. :)

Edit: I just looked it up and my local Napa sells them for $25.49; guess I underestimated the price. :p

You are correct, $25.00 (or $25.49 for that matter) is a bargain, when you have that money but, when budget is tight, can you just clean the old reservoir?

Or it is really hard to do it.

Jeepman

04-08-2016, 02:09 PM

Here's a Compilation of Threads on power steering moans, groans, whines and shudders: http://forum.chryslerminivan.net/showthread.php/37769-Compilation-1.-Power-Steering-Shudder-2.-Power-Steering-Whine

What the reservoir looks like when cut apart: http://forum.chryslerminivan.net/showthread.php/11444-Power-Steering-Reservoir-4th-Generation?p=98926#post98926

One could take the reservoir off, swish some paint thinner/solvent around in there and apply a burst of air through the outlet (larger nipple) to clean it out. Some actually puncture the screen with a screwdriver (or something). Might want to put a Magnefine filter, or suitable inline filter, on the inlet side (smaller nipple) in that case.
http://magnefinefilters.com/?gclid=Cj0KEQjwrZ24BRC098fr-OqnuMkBEiQAKQ9lgKqcb_g46jyc_qIOKpBWBMiNHz6v01dHSbY PtNnaLLQaArIG8P8HAQ

shipo

04-08-2016, 02:13 PM

You are correct, $25.00 (or $25.49 for that matter) is a bargain, when you have that money but, when budget is tight, can you just clean the old reservoir?

Or it is really hard to do it.

I hear it is certainly doable, however, I rather doubt the cleaning is 100%, and as such, the owner will be fussing with it again sooner than later. I'd much rather use a new reservoir than messing around with trying to clean an old one.

LEVY

04-08-2016, 02:22 PM

I hear it is certainly doable, however, I rather doubt the cleaning is 100%, and as such, the owner will be fussing with it again sooner than later. I'd much rather use a new reservoir than messing around with trying to clean an old one.

So refurbished pumps always came with new reservor?

Jeepman

04-08-2016, 02:24 PM

Nope, they are completely separate. If you ever replace the power steering pump yourself, you will remember it. :)

Did you see the picture of the reservoir from Post #225.

LEVY

04-08-2016, 03:50 PM

Nope, they are completely separate. If you ever replace the power steering pump yourself, you will remember it. :)

Did you see the picture of the reservoir from Post #225.

Now I get it! :)

If you ever need to service ypur P.S. pump and don't have $25.49 + tax, don't even bother, wait until you have some funds.

Thank you both.

shipo

04-08-2016, 03:59 PM

Now I get it! :)

If you ever need to service ypur P.S. pump and don't have $25.49 + tax, don't even bother, wait until you have some funds.

Thank you both.

Servicing the pump itself is something which is exceedingly rare, even after hundreds of thousands of miles. I think I've only heard of a few confirmed pump failures on this board for any Gen 3 or Gen 4 van over the last ten years, and by a few, I mean like two or three. That said, there were a lot of pumps and racks replaced before folks wised up and figured out the only item needing replacement when the system got noisy was the reservoir.

There have been a fair number of power steering pump replacements.
Replacing Power Steering Pump: http://forum.chryslerminivan.net/showthread.php/13794-What-Did-YOU-Do-To-YOUR-Chrysler-Minivan-Today?p=214803#post214803

For those reading above post, I noted that one guy stated he couldn't press the new pulley on "all the way". A big hint, you only want to press the pulley on until the shaft is in the same place as it was on the old pulley. That is NOT FLUSH. As I recall, the shaft should be ~1/4" recessed from the face of the new pulley. Otherwise, the serpentine belt will not align and will keep getting thrown off. This is a common mistake people make on many vehicles. I didn't post there because buried in a very long, general "what did you do?" thread.

I have swapped the power steering pump twice on my 2002 T&C because it was leaking. The body appears to be a 2 pieces that bolt together and the seals between them must have leaked. I also had trouble with the HP outlet fitting leaking (removed & re-tightened. It sure helps to remove the wiper tray. It mounts w/ 3 front bolts you must access thru the pulley slots, w/ a socket wrench exactly the right length to not hit the firewall. I recall a 15 mm socket on a 3/8" Craftsman wrench worked for me. It would be even easier if you had the intake manifold off at the same time. Coming up from below didn't work from me, but maybe on a lift, with the tire off you could reach it.

cmk033

05-20-2016, 03:26 PM

I read through the whole thread. It seems that the whining problem is caused by insufficient flow to the pump due to clogged filter in the reservoir. It also seem that the shuddering problem is caused by too much flow into the reservoir.

There has been much discussion about whining problem and had a success by replacing the reservoir or cleaning the filter in the reservoir but the problem with shuddering has not. Some poster indicated that the problem may be is in rack and pinion.

Anyone know the know remedy to resolve shuddering problem? I do not want to have to replace the reservoir and make the problem worse…..

shipo

05-20-2016, 03:54 PM

I read through the whole thread. It seems that the whining problem is caused by insufficient flow to the pump due to clogged filter in the reservoir. It also seem that the shuddering problem is caused by too much flow into the reservoir.

There has been much discussion about whining problem and had a success by replacing the reservoir or cleaning the filter in the reservoir but the problem with shuddering has not. Some poster indicated that the problem may be is in rack and pinion.

Anyone know the know remedy to resolve shuddering problem? I do not want to have to replace the reservoir and make the problem worse…..
I've been on this board for about ten years now and I nave never once heard of "too much flow", nor have I ever heard of replacing the reservoir and making the issue worse.

Jeepman

05-20-2016, 06:02 PM

I read through the whole thread. It seems that the whining problem is caused by insufficient flow to the pump due to clogged filter in the reservoir. It also seem that the shuddering problem is caused by too much flow into the reservoir.

There has been much discussion about whining problem and had a success by replacing the reservoir or cleaning the filter in the reservoir but the problem with shuddering has not. Some poster indicated that the problem may be is in rack and pinion.

Anyone know the know remedy to resolve shuddering problem? I do not want to have to replace the reservoir and make the problem worse…..

Shuddering is not caused by the reservoir. Shudder is a vibration in the steering system possibly caused by such things as too short return hose, frictional components of the transmission fluid, ambient temperature and hard worn tires. For my 2002 GC, new winter tires got rid of the shudder some years back. The tires are now worn and hard, plus with the warm weather, the shudder is back somewhat these days.
More on shuddering: http://forum.chryslerminivan.net/showthread.php/37769-Compilation-1.-Power-Steering-Shudder-2.-Power-Steering-Whine

cmk033

05-20-2016, 09:47 PM

Jeepman,

I've read the thread from the URL link mentioned. Although the discussion is a good one, IMO, still the reason is not conclusive.

I stated having shudder after I replaced few components in front suspensions. One's I've replaced are: both sides of both inner & outer tie rods, left lower ball joint and then I have tighten the right side front hub nut as it was found to be lose.

Also for the reservoir filter, I have not replaced the reservoir for about 100K and have not had any problem or hear any whining noise. I replace fluid once in a while without taking the reservoir apart. I basically suck out what is in the reservoir and refill them. The fluid color is usually dark... I am not going to replace nor clean filter in the reservoir unless I know there is a problem there.

The shudder problem is new but it does not shudder all the time. only once in a while. I just want to look into it before it get worse. But for now it is NOT getting worse. Actual shuddering interval is getting larger and larger.

th423

06-04-2016, 12:38 AM

Hey guys! Thought I'd give some life to this thread as I got some pretty loud whining the other day...A couple starts and drives later and now it is gone. Is it normal for it to start and then go away? Could the screen in the res. just have been temporarily clogged? Thanks to anyone who can give their opinion.

ScuzziOne

06-04-2016, 01:59 AM

Had you done any recent work on the steering system before the shuddering started? If so, and as it went away on it's own, I would tend to think you probably had air bubbles in the system and once purged out over time likely caused the shuddering to go away. Shuddering without air bubbles is generally caused by hose lengths being such that the pulsations of fluid pressure in the system manage to hit a resonant frequency such that the pulses and pulse reflections in the system line up in such a way to become increasingly additive so as to create violent pulsations that you then hear. With proper hose length adjustment, the pulses and reflections can be adjusted to be more out of phase and subtractive instead of additive so that they don't add in a resonant manner. I know my '05 had pulsation issues from the factory and the correction was an extra long length power steering return hose replacement... so long that it is actually coiled up for a loop or two just above the power steering oil cooler.

ScuzziOne

06-04-2016, 02:11 AM

Opps, just noticed you were talking about whining instead of shuddering...

Whining on mine did kind of come and go, but replacement of the reservoir also did not fix my problem. What ultimately fixed mine was back flushing of the restrictor valve embedded in the return hose going to the reservoir. Not sure exactly how or what was clogging up the restrictor flow, but my guess was likely rubber and whatnot from a previously failed and replaced steering rack. Back flushed the heck out of that hose and restrictor and have not had a problem since.

What lead me to this restrictor was that it was also occasionally making a weird suctioning sound at about where the restrictor is located and I could bend/flex the hose by hand to make this suctioning sound come/go. Decided there must have been something in there disturbing the fluid flow so I back flushed it like crazy and never had any more suction or whining sounds since.

Jeepman

06-04-2016, 10:09 AM

Hey guys! Thought I'd give some life to this thread as I got some pretty loud whining the other day...A couple starts and drives later and now it is gone. Is it normal for it to start and then go away? Could the screen in the res. just have been temporarily clogged? Thanks to anyone who can give their opinion.

I doubt the screen can become temporarily plugged. As already asked, have you had any work done to the vehicle lately? Are you using ATF+4 in the system?

To change the air/fluid ratio in the reservoir and decrease the amount of air being thrown around in the reservoir (apparent when the engine is operating), you can fill the reservoir up above the full mark. This is a common solution to get rid of whine.

What the reservoir looks like, a cutaway view: http://forum.chryslerminivan.net/showthread.php/11444-Power-Steering-Reservoir-4th-Generation?p=98926#post98926

I doubt the screen can become temporarily plugged. As already asked, have you had any work done to the vehicle lately? Are you using ATF+4 in the system?

To change the air/fluid ratio in the reservoir and decrease the amount of air being thrown around in the reservoir (apparent when the engine is operating), you can fill the reservoir up above the full mark. This is a common solution to get rid of whine.

Had the van for just under 2 years. All I ever had doen was oil changes. Is there a way I can tell if it is ATF+4 in there for sure? The fluid does get thrown around in there while the van is running but the level stays withint he fill marks on the res. I would fill it up more but I dont want to add any ATF+4 if that is nt what is in there already, correct?

Jeepman

06-04-2016, 04:12 PM

Is the fluid amber or red in color? If red you should be fine.

th423

06-04-2016, 06:41 PM

hmm I'd have to say my the fluid looks milky brown when I look in the PS resevoir. Its nothing like what ps fluid and atf fluid straight out of the bottle looks like.

Given the look, and the fact the sound isnt really happening anymore, I am contemplating just getting the power steering flushed and refilled at the dealer tomorrow instead of replacing the resevoir...would this be foolish?

I guess I could also go with the syphon it out and just refill with ATF+4 myself though. Especially if that is just how they do a flush and fill it at the dealer...Is that what they do at the dealer?

Sorry, such a newb...I really appreciate the help!

ScuzziOne

06-05-2016, 04:27 AM

Pretty easy to flush it out yourself... just try to avoid pulling air into the system as you do so.

Jeepman

06-05-2016, 06:28 AM

hmm I'd have to say my the fluid looks milky brown when I look in the PS resevoir. Its nothing like what ps fluid and atf fluid straight out of the bottle looks like.

Given the look, and the fact the sound isnt really happening anymore, I am contemplating just getting the power steering flushed and refilled at the dealer tomorrow instead of replacing the resevoir...would this be foolish?

I guess I could also go with the syphon it out and just refill with ATF+4 myself though. Especially if that is just how they do a flush and fill it at the dealer...Is that what they do at the dealer?

Sorry, such a newb...I really appreciate the help!

Milky brown sounds like a mixture of amber and red. The ATF+4 can turn color per:

Mopar ATF+4Â® is a World Class Fluid having exceptional durability. However, the red dye used in ATF+4Â® is not permanent; as the fluid ages it may become darker or appear brown in color. ATF+4Â® also has a unique odor that may change with age. With ATF+4Â® fluid, color and odor are no longer indicators of fluid condition and do not support a fluid change.

It appears you have a concoction of power steering fluids, which doesn't surprise me. I would replace the fluid with the proper ATF+4 and replace the reservoir too.

sockit

06-24-2016, 05:51 PM

I have a 2002 GC 3.8.
Recently the wife reported the steering got hard, and fluid leaking.
I sent my sons to investigate (I was at work, and they happened to be off). They said there was an obvious leak in the power steering hose that connects to the cooler. While they were removing the old ps hose, they apparently damaged the cooler, so they purchased an aftermarket ps cooler that included new hose from O'Reily's.
Ever since, and not before, we are experiencing the low RPM power steering "shudder."
I came across the power steering TSB 19-006-05.
It states to replace one of the cooler lines with a 33.5 inch length hose.
So my problem is that I do not know how long the original hose was that my sons replaced with the one from the kit. I remember seeing it, but I threw it out before I became aware of the TSB. But it certainly did not look like it was nearly 3 ft long.
Anyone have a similar experience?
Is it possible that the pump was damaged during the initial fluid loss, and is the reason for the current shudder?
Yesterday I drained the fluid (and expelled as much as possible by briefly running the engine and turning the steering wheel with the front wheels raised up). I removed and cleaned out the reservoir (backflushed with brake cleaner through large opening, dried out with compressed air). The shudder is till there.
Thanks.

itsallgood

06-24-2016, 08:56 PM

I have a 2002 GC 3.8.
Recently the wife reported the steering got hard, and fluid leaking.
I sent my sons to investigate (I was at work, and they happened to be off). They said there was an obvious leak in the power steering hose that connects to the cooler. While they were removing the old ps hose, they apparently damaged the cooler, so they purchased an aftermarket ps cooler that included new hose from O'Reily's.
Ever since, and not before, we are experiencing the low RPM power steering "shudder."
I came across the power steering TSB 19-006-05.
It states to replace one of the cooler lines with a 33.5 inch length hose.
So my problem is that I do not know how long the original hose was that my sons replaced with the one from the kit. I remember seeing it, but I threw it out before I became aware of the TSB. But it certainly did not look like it was nearly 3 ft long.
Anyone have a similar experience?
Is it possible that the pump was damaged during the initial fluid loss, and is the reason for the current shudder?
Yesterday I drained the fluid (and expelled as much as possible by briefly running the engine and turning the steering wheel with the front wheels raised up). I removed and cleaned out the reservoir (backflushed with brake cleaner through large opening, dried out with compressed air). The shudder is till there.
Thanks.

When you say shudder, are you referring to the vibration you feel in the steering wheel when turning the wheel. If so, the rack might have been damaged, due to no or to low of fluid. Try and replace the hose in question with an OEM part. If the problem still there, try replacing the reservoir. If this didn't solve it, possible the rack and pinion needs replacing.

ScuzziOne

06-24-2016, 09:49 PM

Dealer did the long hose replacement on my '05 many years ago and the hose probably is about 3.5 feet long. It's actually coiled up and zip tied down to the sub-frame just above the cooler. Want to say it's the line from the cooler to the reservoir return, but I'd have to get back under there again to be certain.

sockit

06-25-2016, 12:00 PM

Right, the vibration felt in the steering wheel when turning it while the engine is at idle. In our case, idle in drive. If in park or neutral, apparently the idle rises enough that the noise goes away.
Could the rack be affected by the system being too low on fluid? for this short a duration? No high-speed parts in there like the pump has. I would expect if anything would b damaged it would be the pump.
I have read that the length of return hose may need to be such that it is "tuned" to the pulses of the pump, thus the "33.5" inch length. But also that just the added length of the hose is to absorb the pulses.
Well if I replace the hose and it solves the shudder I will report back.
By the way, the screen in the reservoir was pretty clean, even before I cleaned it.

ScuzziOne

06-26-2016, 02:44 AM

Mine only seemed to occur during low speed turning/maneuvering... such as in parking lots. Dealer put the longer hose on and the problem went away.

Don't recall whether I ever tried just sitting still and turning while in drive...