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I'm so glad I bought tickets to tomorrow's game from my buddy. Either I make a big profit (I'm a Wings fan, so his return doesn't really matter much to me outside of fantasy hockey) or I get to go to a game with a killer atmosphere.

You are obviously high on something if you put St. Louis #2 on the list of people to start a franchise with. He's 36 and not even the best player on his team (Stamkos). I'd take Datsyuk over St. Louis because he's a better player in all phases of the game.

St Louis is still a gamer for sure. However, there is no debate that for the first half of last year, Stamkos was the only player on Crosby's level (though I dislike his brand of hockey, can't deny his skill). The fact that the OP can't recognize this...

St. Louis is great, but at the age of 36 would he be the one you want to start a franchise with? Other younger players might be a higher pick. I always thought that the question of starting a franchise is skewed towards younger players. Maybe a better question is who would you want on your team for this season or for one game.

Do you actually have a 1-22 order of players you want to start a franchise with? Otherwise it seems you just randomly placed Datsyuk and Lidstrom in at 18 and 22. Also, I know you lack a credible argument for Crosby because if you knew hockey that well you would realize that any team would rather start a franchise with Datsyuk then Lidstrom as Lidstrom has been considering retirement for the last two years. Any team would take 5-7 more years of Datsyuk over another 1-maybe 2 years of Lidstrom.

Additionally, Sid the Whiny Bitch is a talented hockey player but a classless one who really isn't as good as you seem to think he is. He doesn't measure up to any Red Wing player because no Red Wing would skate away from Mike Babcock after winning the Cup when Babcock is trying to tell him how good of a player he is. Nor does a hockey player of substance leave Nick Lidstrom standing at center ice without shaking hands between captains. Now to actually how good of a player he is. He is great, one of the best in the league, so it is good he can make it back and not have his career ruined by injuries. Yet, I don't think he is that great: if you look at the top point getters for each season since Crosby has entered the league you will notice that Sid the Bitch's stats are more impressive than most yet his +/- is significantly lower than many at the top, particularly the other forwards. This leads me to believe he either gains a significant amount of his points on the tacky bullshit penalities are called in his favor or he isn't very good at defense. Both of those tend to devalue him as the elite player you seem to think he is. I am not going to argue that Zetterberg or Datsyuk are better hockey talents than he is (I think so) because we are biased, I really don't have enough information, and it really doesn't matter to me. I will always know the Red Wings are a classier organization than Pittsburgh and our excellence (at least as of the last decade) hasn't been based on getting top 5 picks every year in the draft to build a team.

Datsyuk also missed over a third of the season, and part of his value is he's the best defensive forward in the league and doesn't take penalties.

Lidstrom is a defenseman. It isn't his job to score points. The fact your argument is based around "this forward scores more points than this defenseman" only heightens my suspicion you don't actually watch hockey with any regularity. Lidstrom is generally regarded as the second greatest player ever at his position. No one would say the same about Crosby.

Pavel also isnt counted on to carry the team. When puss boy plays everyone stares at him like hes the second comming of jesus. I'd rather have Malkin over him any day atleast he plays hard and is hard on other players.

As JClay mentioned, comparing him to Lidstrom is pointless and a signifcant part of Datsyuk's value is that he plays defense. If you look at Crosby's career, he is almost always in the top 10 in points but he has one of the worst +/-s in the top 10. Most of the other forwards have better +/-s. He would appear (on the surface) to lack defensive ability or to score most of his goals on the PP, which he usually draws with some half ass call.

Side note, hasn't officiating been getting terrible these days in the NHL?

He's certainly twice the douche that the average NHL player is. He can't even find it in him to shake hands after hard-fought games. He also wants to be held every time someone even speaks bad of him. He makes Pittsburgh the MSU of the NHL, in my opinion.

Also, he is on team Canada, the most loaded team out there, with the random exception of Sweden or Russia occasionally. If Canada doesn't win a gold medal, it tends to be a dissapointment. Also, Luongo is the bigger factor when it comes to Vancouver choking every year in the playoffs then the Sedin brothers. They are quite good.

To the guy who keeps complaining about getting negged for stating his opinion about Sid the Bitch. You probably would not get negged if you provided some support other than "if you disagree with my opinion that doesn't mean you are right and neg away." That doesn't make your point any more true, it just establishes you are stating an opinion without any evidence. You aren't necessarily being negged for it (possibly are I don't really know) but because you are stating it in such a blunt and crass manner seeming to invite criticism.

Yes the fact that he's Canadian factors into the hatred, because it's this fact that contributes to the Bettman/League attitude that he's untouchable and god's gift to hockey. Crosby isn't a hockey player, he's a goal scorer who let's others fight his fights. I have zero respect for stars who don't take care of any of their own business and constantly whine. To show you I'm being objective, as a Red Wings fan I apply this same caveat to Yzerman. Players like Ovechkin and even Datsyuk happily throw their weight around, and not only when they have open easy shots to take.

Anyone who believes Crosby is 2 levels above every other NHL player hasn't watched enough hockey. Ovechkin and Stamkos are equals. Datysuk is only slightly behind because of his size. Both Toews and Kane have an argument to make. If Crosby is that much better, how come he only has 1 Hart trophy?

Bettman made a mistake and thought that he needed to follow the NBA model of hyping a select few superstars. This, among many of his stupid, short sighted decisions, is the reason the NHL is where it is today.

Because canadians are the bigest two faced hockey payers ever they make fun of euro's for diving and hooking when they do it more than anyone else. Their dirty and when someone is dirty back to them they get all pissy and cry like they world ended. They remind me of soccer players actually. Like Burrows oh bite me please.. It is generally the french canadians. It's like they hate the fact that they arent the best at hockey anymore and cant handle with being second best (sometimes) at the only sport they have.

I didn't say the word pussies I said,"they cry like the world has ended" This is more towards the latest genneration of Canadian hockey players and the even more at the French Canadians. But guys like Getzlaf, Perry, Pronger, Niedermayer, are dirty and theres a bunch more who complain when they get hit or when someone slew foots them or hacks their knees. All while they do it. Majority lack class. Who are the biggest troubble makers in the NHL Canadians...... Plus to add in Canadians are bigger homers than state fans are its sicking.

You realize the NHL is over half Canadians? Sure there might be some examples of star players that whine and cry but for each one of them there are many 3rd-4th line role players that arent afraid to throw their weight around.

I never said anything about hating Canadians...just that part of the reason Crosby gets overpromoted is that he's Canadian.

I explained why I have a caveat about loving Yzerman, I like my stars to fight their own battles. Also, I remember when he was a primadonna who refused to play defense until Bowman set him straight. I am about as big of a Wings fan as they come (the only days I was allowed to miss school when I was a kid were to go to Wings Cup parades) and it's just that I don't have to blindly love a captain of my favorite team. Nothing wrong with rationality.

Funny, I never thought Yzerman had a prima donna attitude - he struck me as very humble. As far as "refusing to play defense," that wasn't his role at the time. Do you remember the Dead Wings? When he joined the team, he became the leading scorer on a bad team.

Eventually, as the Wings added more pieces, they enjoyed some playoff success, but they needed Bowman to take them to the top. It wasn't just Yzerman that needed to play more defense. The Captain, to his credit, bought into the new coach's system, led by example, and sacrificed offense to become a two-way player.

I think you underestimate Datsyuk. He actually lays some of the bigger hits on the team because he times them so well and has great balance. He actually has announced his displeasure with winning the Lady Byng and hasn't won it the last two years. Here are some videos of Datsyuk fighting/hitting hard (don't know how to embed):

2 goals, 6 assists. Both of his goals and 2 of his assists were on the power play. Don't know his +/- but probably wasn't that good considering he could only have been +4 maximum. All in all not that impressive, especially considering they gave him the MVP for the playoffs.

twice the player yea right the dude gets more b/s calls then anyone else in the league. the league nuts its self every time people talk about him. He was just another played when I got to play against him when he was at SSM. Kessel looked and was more talented i feel like cancer set him back a great deal and hes finally fully healthy. He's not anywhere near the player people make him out to be. Look how unimportant he is to that team they play well with or without him. But when he plays they make him carry the team. My buddy who loves him tried to tell me how much better he is than everyone else.. Whats funny is i compared him to Hank while I'm frustrated this season with Z for not skating and playing hard. He's not the only one on the wings taking entire games off.

There stats head to head are funny to compare when they have played against one another.

17 times Vs. One another. (this is only counting when both players are in the line up)

Zetterberg's stat line

7G 11A 18P +6

Crosby's

5G 8A 13P -3

Hes not by any means twice as good as anyone in the NHL period. He has a great skill seat but he isnt really that elite. He plays almost more than any other foreword in the league and hes a defensive libality in his own end, sure he backchecks hard but hes weak on other teams in his own zone. He's not a complete player and he never will be.

That's it mark this as trolling because you can't handle the truth cry baby fans. Can't wait till he gets knocked out agin. If it were the old rules back in the late 90's even he'd be on a stretcher quick.

So serious concussions are now just a thing of the past and we make fun of those who suffer from them? And 'classless', really? Arguments on whether player A is better than player B are one thing but stooping to calling one of the faces of the game gutless/classless/etc. are a bit low imo.

This topic seems to bring out the inferiority complexes that so many members of this board criticize our opponents (i.e., Sparty) for having. Calling him "Cindy", saying that menstruation has kept him out, etc. That shit belongs on Mlive

The hits that took out Lindros would merit very long suspensions under the new system, whereas the ones that took out Crosby would barely merit being reviewed. Most people aren't making fun of the fact that he has concussion problems, more that it took so little to bring them on. Most people that soft get weeded out early on (which I suppose is a testament to his talent), but this seems like a strong indicator that his body can't handle the rigors of the modern NHL. I'm sure the same thing would have happened to Gretzky had he played in the modern era, instead of a time where the players were smaller/slower/less athletic, and enforcers could inspire enough fear to keep a star player from taking any heavy contact.

Ya, the first page of the thread was good, but the second got a little out of hand. I may hate Sid the Bitch, but I in know way wanted his career to end with these injuries. Concussions suck. Also, it is way better to beat Pittsburgh with him than without him.

He embarrasses hockey players world wide he's a punk, a sissy and that's why the majorty of his peers and other hockey players don't like him he's not respectable and is a disgrace to the sport. Two of the most valued and respected players are lidstrom and datsyuk both after being polled by current NHL players.