Which universe of super beings would beat the other, in an all out brawl?

I hate to "derail" this thread again, (it seems like everyone is discussing Wolverine Vs. Batman)
But Wolverine would kick the dog shit out of Batman.

Why does everyone swing from Batman's nuts???

He has to be the most overratted comic character in history.

The minute someone says Batman vs. ____________, people start coming up with all of these "off the wall" scenarios where Batman has every type of chemical, weapon, or means of transportation at his disposal.
If Wolverine and Batman met up and went head up (man to man) Batman would be left dead in the dirt.

Batman CANT kill Wolverine, he CANT hurt Wolverine for very long, he's nowhere near as strong as Wolverine, he doesnt have the fighting experience that Wolverine has......what makes you people think that he stands a chance??

Check the other post that I made about who Batman could hang with and who he cant hang with.

I'm not even sure if Captain America could take down Wolverine, but I know for damn sure that Cap would take "The Bat" so....

r8hitman wrote:Batman CANT kill Wolverine, he CANT hurt Wolverine for very long, he's nowhere near as strong as Wolverine, he doesnt have the fighting experience that Wolverine has......what makes you people think that he stands a chance??

Yes, in a toe-to-toe fight, Bats would lose. But it wouldn't be a toe-to-toe fight, so that adds some...frisson.

I'm not even sure if Captain America could take down Wolverine, but I know for damn sure that Cap would take "The Bat" so....

Actually, the one time they fought, it was Batman.

As for Cap taking down Wolvie...it depends on where you are. 616 Cap, who believes in fighting fair and is generally a decent human being, can stalemate Wolvie for a while but will ultimately lose. Ultimate Cap, who's a fucking dick, will just keep throwing grenades at him and shooting him.

This comment is in no way meant to insist your opinion is wrong or be considered an edict, solely this poster's opinion. That said, you are still a fool and will kneel before me in supplication.

But in JLA vs Avengers, Cap and Batman sized each other up and realized there was no clear victor or real reason to fight...so they decided to just figure out what was going on. Which is again why Bats would beat Wolverine...brain over berserk.

As to why people think Batman could kick most anyone's ass? He's the only non-superpowered mortal in the DCU that Superman considers his equal. What more do you need?

Pants make all the difference? Is that it? Is that why Scotland was conquered by England - they wore kilts instead of pants? Do you think we'd win in Iraq if only George W. Bush would just wear a pair of fucking pants for once?

But in JLA vs Avengers, Cap and Batman sized each other up and realized there was no clear victor or real reason to fight...so they decided to just figure out what was going on. Which is again why Bats would beat Wolverine...brain over berserk.

As to why people think Batman could kick most anyone's ass? He's the only non-superpowered mortal in the DCU that Superman considers his equal. What more do you need?

OMG!!

Anybody who has been following comics for as long as I have knows that Batman IS NOT Superman's equal.
(I dont care what Superman might have said to "flatter" The Bat, or what some 22 year old writer decided to include in his new version of the Superman/Batman relationship)
Batman has been boosted to these "astronomical" levels because of his appeal to younger fans.(his "cool" factor)
Batman is on the same level as heroes like Nick Fury, The Punisher, or Daredevil....
Writers have allowed gullible readers to buy into this shit (the belief that Batman is on Superman's level) because they recognized Batman's appeal over the boyscout.

Dont get me wrong, it's a smart move on the company's part.....but old school/classic comic fans KNOW that when it comes to facing off against heroes like Superman, Green Lantern, Spiderman, Wolverine, Wonder Woman....etc....Batman would be beaten like a red headed step child.

PERIOD.

Now as far as the Wolverine Wannabe goes....
he WOULD NOT kill Wolverine.

Adamantium bones + a healing factor = a deadly combination for almost ANY opponent.

Anybody who has been following comics for as long as I have knows that Batman IS NOT Superman's equal.(I dont care what Superman might have said to "flatter" The Bat, or what some 22 year old writer decided to include in his new version of the Superman/Batman relationship)Batman has been boosted to these "astronomical" levels because of his appeal to younger fans.(his "cool" factor)Batman is on the same level as heroes like Nick Fury, The Punisher, or Daredevil....Writers have allowed gullible readers to buy into this shit (the belief that Batman is on Superman's level) because they recognized Batman's appeal over the boyscout.

Dont get me wrong, it's a smart move on the company's part.....but old school/classic comic fans KNOW that when it comes to facing off against heroes like Superman, Green Lantern, Spiderman, Wolverine, Wonder Woman....etc....Batman would be beaten like a red headed step child.

PERIOD.

Now as far as the Wolverine Wannabe goes....he WOULD NOT kill Wolverine.

Adamantium bones + a healing factor = a deadly combination for almost ANY opponent.

I really, really, really hope you see the irony in saying Batman is overwritten to feed off fanboy appeal WHILE defending Wolverine...who has in no way, ever in the history of time, been milked like a hairy, Canadian cash cow. Never.

r8hitman wrote:Anybody who has been following comics for as long as I have knows that Batman IS NOT Superman's equal.

How many times has Batman outwitted Superman, in HOW many comics, by how many writers? From the Silver Age onwards? I seem to remember that "Batman clowning Superman for shits and giggles" was a pretty regular feature back in the day.

From a sheer power perspective, you're right. But you understimate Bats at your own risk.

This comment is in no way meant to insist your opinion is wrong or be considered an edict, solely this poster's opinion. That said, you are still a fool and will kneel before me in supplication.

r8hitman wrote:Anybody who has been following comics for as long as I have knows that Batman IS NOT Superman's equal.

How many times has Batman outwitted Superman, in HOW many comics, by how many writers? From the Silver Age onwards? I seem to remember that "Batman clowning Superman for shits and giggles" was a pretty regular feature back in the day.

From a sheer power perspective, you're right. But you understimate Bats at your own risk.

Especially in favor of a character who was originally meant to be an ACTUAL wolverine that had been rapidly evovled by a super-villain.

Anybody who has been following comics for as long as I have knows that Batman IS NOT Superman's equal.(I dont care what Superman might have said to "flatter" The Bat, or what some 22 year old writer decided to include in his new version of the Superman/Batman relationship)Batman has been boosted to these "astronomical" levels because of his appeal to younger fans.(his "cool" factor)Batman is on the same level as heroes like Nick Fury, The Punisher, or Daredevil....Writers have allowed gullible readers to buy into this shit (the belief that Batman is on Superman's level) because they recognized Batman's appeal over the boyscout.

Dont get me wrong, it's a smart move on the company's part.....but old school/classic comic fans KNOW that when it comes to facing off against heroes like Superman, Green Lantern, Spiderman, Wolverine, Wonder Woman....etc....Batman would be beaten like a red headed step child.

PERIOD.

Now as far as the Wolverine Wannabe goes....he WOULD NOT kill Wolverine.

Adamantium bones + a healing factor = a deadly combination for almost ANY opponent.

I really, really, really hope you see the irony in saying Batman is overwritten to feed off fanboy appeal WHILE defending Wolverine...who has in no way, ever in the history of time, been milked like a hairy, Canadian cash cow. Never.

PERIOD.

Oh as far as THAT goes....

Yeah I agree with you.
Wolverine is overrated "to a certain extent".....Wolverine is another character who the writers have decided to use his "cool" factor to keep a thousand and one different storylines for his character going.

But nobody, I repeat NOBODY is more overrated than Batman.

And Wolverine has had all of his special abilities since his first appearance in the X mags.
(cant include the Hulk mag. because his character wasnt complete at that point)
What the D.C. writers have done with Batman, would be the equivalent of the Marvel writers allowing Wolverine to compete with Silver Surfer or Galactus....

I dont know if you were talking to me, but if you feel like the "fun" from this thread is slowly drifting away, I'll try to liven things back up again with one of the old matchups that I posted in my VS. thread back at the ORS.....

JusticeLeague Of America

VS.

The X-Men Apply each roster that you see in the photos to this fight.

Just something for you to discuss.

Hey it's D.C. vs. Marvel, and it's not just a "Batman VS. ______" so .......

But they have Martian Manhunter. In this istance... I say JLA wins. I mean when you have a stupid character like Green Lantern on your team (WHOSE RING CAN DO ANYTHING) then the X-Men don't have a chance. The only thing that could stop Hal Jordan would be Dark Phoenix. And even then that's iffy.

Yeah I agree with you.Wolverine is overrated "to a certain extent".....Wolverine is another character who the writers have decided to use his "cool" factor to keep a thousand and one different storylines for his character going.

But nobody, I repeat NOBODY is more overrated than Batman.

And Wolverine has had all of his special abilities since his first appearance in the X mags.(cant include the Hulk mag. because his character wasnt complete at that point)What the D.C. writers have done with Batman, would be the equivalent of the Marvel writers allowing Wolverine to compete with Silver Surfer or Galactus....

It's just fucking silly.

Are you kidding me? You can't exclude a character's 1st appearance b/c it goes against what you're saying. Every writer that touches Wolverine pumps him up. First, co-creator Len Wein originally intended for Logan to be a mutated wolverine cub, evolved to humanoid form by the High Evolutionary. Then Byrne came up with the idea of Sabretooth being Wolverine's father and together, Byrne and Claremont came up with Wolverine being around 60 and having served in WWII after escaping from Sabretooth, who was around 120 years old, and had been abusing him for decades - explaining his rages.

Now he's the sickly son of Canadian aristocrats from the 19th century.

And don't tell me he's always had these abilities. In his first series, Wolverine took weeks to recover after Lord Shingen ran a sword through his chest.

During Civil War, Wolverine was completely incinerated down to his skeleton and fully regenerated within minutes. It should be noted that this exact same attack KILLED Wolverine during Days of Future Past.

Wolverine is, without a doubt, the most needlesly, overpumped character in comics. And they did it all for the benjamins.

burlivesleftnut wrote:But they have Martian Manhunter. In this istance... I say JLA wins. I mean when you have a stupid character like Green Lantern on your team (WHOSE RING CAN DO ANYTHING) then the X-Men don't have a chance. The only thing that could stop Hal Jordan would be Dark Phoenix. And even then that's iffy.

The Ginger Man wrote:Are you kidding me? You can't exclude a character's 1st appearance b/c it goes against what you're saying.Actually it doesnt. By the time Marvel decided to re introduce Wolverine, he wasnt a "popular" character....he didnt have the fan following that I'm talking about.Batman's abilities have been boosted based on his fan appeal.

Like I said (with the exception of the Hulk mags.) Wolverine has ALWAYS had his abilities. Even before he was considered a fan favorite.

Every writer that touches Wolverine pumps him up. OMG! I have yet to see a writer put Wolverine on a cosmic level. LOL! First, co-creator Len Wein originally intended for Logan to be a mutated wolverine cub, evolved to humanoid form by the High Evolutionary. Then Byrne came up with the idea of Sabretooth being Wolverine's father and together, Byrne and Claremont came up with Wolverine being around 60 and having served in WWII after escaping from Sabretooth, who was around 120 years old, and had been abusing him for decades - explaining his rages.You're talking about a character who never had a backstory in the first place, but we're not talking about "backstories" here anyway....we're talking about a certain character being place "out of his/her league" because of coolness.

Wolverine getting stabbed or shot and living is not out of character for someone with an adamantium skeleton and quick healing abilities.....now if he were to defeat Galactus then that would be just plain silly.

The Ginger Man wrote:Are you kidding me? You can't exclude a character's 1st appearance b/c it goes against what you're saying.Actually it doesnt. By the time Marvel decided to re introduce Wolverine, he wasnt a "popular" character....he didnt have the fan following that I'm talking about.Batman's abilities have been boosted based on his fan appeal.

Like I said (with the exception of the Hulk mags.) Wolverine has ALWAYS had his abilities. Even before he was considered a fan favorite.

Every writer that touches Wolverine pumps him up. OMG! :roll: I have yet to see a writer put Wolverine on a cosmic level. LOL! First, co-creator Len Wein originally intended for Logan to be a mutated wolverine cub, evolved to humanoid form by the High Evolutionary. Then Byrne came up with the idea of Sabretooth being Wolverine's father and together, Byrne and Claremont came up with Wolverine being around 60 and having served in WWII after escaping from Sabretooth, who was around 120 years old, and had been abusing him for decades - explaining his rages.You're talking about a character who never had a backstory in the first place, but we're not talking about "backstories" here anyway....we're talking about a certain character being place "out of his/her league" because of coolness.

Wolverine getting stabbed or shot and living is not out of character for someone with an adamantium skeleton and quick healing abilities.....now if he were to defeat Galactus then that would be just plain silly.

r8hitman wrote:Are you kidding me? You can't exclude a character's 1st appearance b/c it goes against what you're saying

And that's another thing.....if you look at EVERY character's first appearance, they have all changed drastically since then.

Even Superman.

Back in the early Action Comics, Superman couldnt even fucking fly.

So, it's ok for every other character except Batman??? Or does this argument only work b/c you're talking about Wolverine?

r8hitman wrote:Wolverine getting stabbed or shot and living is not out of character for someone with an adamantium skeleton and quick healing abilities.....

So being incinerated down to said adamantium skeleton (which effectively seals off Wolverine's entire bone structure) and then regenerating you're entire body completely...from the bone (which is unreachable through the adamantium) in a few minutes....that's in character? Is that quick healing? B/C it seems more like franchise-induced immortality.

Last edited by The Ginger Man on Fri Apr 27, 2007 2:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.

r8hitman wrote:You might not want to admit it, but you're trying to convince people that Batman could take Superman because you think he's cool.

Isn't it reasonable to assume that the reason you are lobbying so hard for Wolverine is that you simply think he is cool? I mean we are talking about fictional characters that exist in a fictional universe. We could all think up hundreds of ways in which Batman could win and hundreds of ways in which Wolverine could win.

You seem to be arguing that Wolverine winning is somehow a fact written in stone somewhere. It is not. Many scenarios exist where Batman could defeat Wolverine. Whether you lean one way or another is a matter of preference. Based on the fight, as you see it, inside your little head.

And also, several writers have depicted Batman defeating Superman. They are not talentless hacks either. So just deal with it. People like Batman. People like Wolverine. That doesn't mean the characters are overrated it just means that they connect with a lot of people. I hate it when people don't like a character so they cry that the character is overrated. Just because you can't see the appeal doesn't mean it isn't there.

And quit arguing like you are the be all and end all of comic book knowledge. You aren't. This is a fun little exercise for us to flex our geek muscles. Not a pissing contest over who knows more about comics.

Leckomaniac wrote:And quit arguing like you are the be all and end all of comic book knowledge. You aren't. This is a fun little exercise for us to flex our geek muscles. Not a pissing contest over who knows more about comics.

Winslow???

Well said, Lecko. Good advice for all involved...which is why I'm gonna get back to my job now. My job writing comic books. Comic books that show Batman beating Superman. Except that Superman is wearing purple. Because I lost my blue crayon.

Leckomaniac wrote:And also, several writers have depicted Batman defeating Superman. They are not talentless hacks either.

That doesn't mean that these writers are RIGHT. They may be paid by DC, and their stuff is therefore rammed down the fans' throats, but let's face it: comic book writers write whatever they want, and then the next writer comes along and writes whatever HE wants. And we're supposed to try to make sense of it all. So this argument doesn't work.

We know Batman's skills, abilities, and tech. And we know Superman's powers. What we're really arguing about is whether one can overcome the other.

Superman can survive multi-megaton nuclear explosions. Batman doesn't have that kind of firepower. His skills and abilities are worthless against Superman because he can hit Superman with everything he's got and not even disturb Superman's sleep. And even if he does something like holding Lois Lane hostage to force Superman to submit, Superman can use his super-speed to act to free Lois far faster than Batman can even begin to pull the trigger, so to speak.

All this happens UNLESS Batman has kryptonite. If Batman has kryptonite, then of course he wins. As I said somewhere else, Elmer Fudd could defeat Superman with kryptonite. There's no issue there, no argument.

So the winner is Superman, when Batman doesn't have kryptonite.
The winner is Elmer Fudd if he has kryptonite.

Leckomaniac wrote:And quit arguing like you are the be all and end all of comic book knowledge. You aren't. This is a fun little exercise for us to flex our geek muscles. Not a pissing contest over who knows more about comics.

Winslow???

Well said, Lecko. Good advice for all involved...which is why I'm gonna get back to my job now. My job writing comic books. Comic books that show Batman beating Superman. Except that Superman is wearing purple. Because I lost my blue crayon.

First of all my last post was about Superman not Wolverine....
And I've already said that Wolverine is overrated.
He's not my favorite character and not even ONE of my favorite characters, but I'm just using the facts that we've been given.

And as far as that "be all know all" comment, I'm not telling you that I know everything about all of these characters.

(Man, I havent even followed comics faithfully in years)

But if you're talking about a VS. matchup then I'm going to use the parameters that have been set by the writers/creators of these characters.

If you dont like the (logical) outcome, then just go write your own damn comic.

You can allow Nightwing to defeat the fucking Beyonder for all I care....

Leckomaniac wrote:And also, several writers have depicted Batman defeating Superman. They are not talentless hacks either.

That doesn't mean that these writers are RIGHT. They may be paid by DC, and their stuff is therefore rammed down the fans' throats, but let's face it: comic book writers write whatever they want, and then the next writer comes along and writes whatever HE wants. And we're supposed to try to make sense of it all. So this argument doesn't work.

We know Batman's skills, abilities, and tech. And we know Superman's powers. What we're really arguing about is whether one can overcome the other.

Superman can survive multi-megaton nuclear explosions. Batman doesn't have that kind of firepower. His skills and abilities are worthless against Superman because he can hit Superman with everything he's got and not even disturb Superman's sleep. And even if he does something like holding Lois Lane hostage to force Superman to submit, Superman can use his super-speed to act to free Lois far faster than Batman can even begin to pull the trigger, so to speak.

All this happens UNLESS Batman has kryptonite. If Batman has kryptonite, then of course he wins. As I said somewhere else, Elmer Fudd could defeat Superman with kryptonite. There's no issue there, no argument.

So the winner is Superman, when Batman doesn't have kryptonite.The winner is Elmer Fudd if he has kryptonite.

WELL FUCKING SAID.
*the "logical" portion of the room stands up and applauses*

Last edited by r8hitman on Fri Apr 27, 2007 3:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.