You all have forgotten about Lance Armstrong the classics and world champion. Before Lance was diagnosed with cancer he was still a champion, just not a TdF GC winner. In 94 he was second in Liege-Bastogne-Liege and San Sebastian. 95 saw wins in San Sabastian, Tour Du Pont, and a Tour de France stage win at Limoges 3 day after teammate Fabio Casartelli died on the descent of Col D'Dspet. In 96 he bacame the first American to win Fleche Wallonne and won the Tour Du Pont again by July it's suspected the cancer was affecting athletic performance. He abandoned the TdF after 5 days and showing in the olympics in late sumer was less than expected. He was complete different person before and after cancer. Attitudes change when you're on death's doorstep. He came back from cancer determined to be competetive again. I will not waver on my opinion that his rise to prominence and first and probably second tour wins were clean.

I'm a recreational cyclist these days but competed at a very high level as a junior (under 18) and all these years (31 now) I have been bothered by professional cycling being designated a sport dominated by cheats and dopers while nary a mention is made of track and field, swimming, soccer, and let's not even mention the steroroid use in football and baseball. It just seems like professional cycling is held to a higher standard in terms of doping.

Why not reinforce Elliot's audience percentages by hiring on another politician, Robert Mendendez of New Jersey so Spitzer and the good Senator can compair notes about prostitutes on the air. :evil: :roll: :(

I've been a recreational cyclist for the last 10 years, something that likely would have never happened if not for Lance Armstrong, and I truly love the sport. I've been what most would describe as a huge Lance Armstrong fan and have followed both the sport and the Tour closely. Therefore, I have a much more in depth understanding of the situation than the average sports fan.Throughout the years of being a Lance fan my opinion has evolved from; "He would never dope" to "It's possible, but I think he's clean", to "I really hope he's clean, but I'm afraid he's not"....To, probably about 3 years ago....."No doubt, HE DOPED!"

Therefore, while I certainly don't excuse or justify what he did...In a lot of ways it's just reality of the culture of the sport. I never believed Lance was a Saint when I thought he was riding clean, just like I don't think he's the devil now that I know he doped.

He's a HECK of an athlete with an unbelievable drive and focus to win....Some view that as an asset, some view it as a fault....In reality, it's probably a little of both.

Again, not excusing or justifying what he did...But I'm still a fan and like the guy. I think he got caught up in lie and there was no way out. In my opinion, while flawed (like all of us)...If you throw Lance's life on a scale, the good outweighs the bad.

Ditto on everything, except I'm no longer a fan of the guy. I hate lying, and I don't care if "everybody's doing it." Even children are taught you don't do it just because everyone else is. I was a big fan of his, and he really let his fans and cancer survivors down.

But, you can't take away the fact that he is also an amazing athlete.

Logged

The pedigree of honey Does not concern the bee; A clover, any time, to him Is aristocracy. ---Emily Dickinson

I've been a recreational cyclist for the last 10 years, something that likely would have never happened if not for Lance Armstrong, and I truly love the sport. I've been what most would describe as a huge Lance Armstrong fan and have followed both the sport and the Tour closely. Therefore, I have a much more in depth understanding of the situation than the average sports fan.Throughout the years of being a Lance fan my opinion has evolved from; "He would never dope" to "It's possible, but I think he's clean", to "I really hope he's clean, but I'm afraid he's not"....To, probably about 3 years ago....."No doubt, HE DOPED!"

Therefore, while I certainly don't excuse or justify what he did...In a lot of ways it's just reality of the culture of the sport. I never believed Lance was a Saint when I thought he was riding clean, just like I don't think he's the devil now that I know he doped.

He's a HECK of an athlete with an unbelievable drive and focus to win....Some view that as an asset, some view it as a fault....In reality, it's probably a little of both.

Again, not excusing or justifying what he did...But I'm still a fan and like the guy. I think he got caught up in lie and there was no way out. In my opinion, while flawed (like all of us)...If you throw Lance's life on a scale, the good outweighs the bad.

Ditto on everything, except I'm no longer a fan of the guy. I hate lying, and I don't care if "everybody's doing it." Even children are taught you don't do it just because everyone else is. I was a big fan of his, and he really let his fans and cancer survivors down.

But, you can't take away the fact that he is also an amazing athlete.

He may not have been an amazing athlete if he had not been on drugs. May have been just another guy with a bicycle.

I've been a recreational cyclist for the last 10 years, something that likely would have never happened if not for Lance Armstrong, and I truly love the sport. I've been what most would describe as a huge Lance Armstrong fan and have followed both the sport and the Tour closely. Therefore, I have a much more in depth understanding of the situation than the average sports fan.Throughout the years of being a Lance fan my opinion has evolved from; "He would never dope" to "It's possible, but I think he's clean", to "I really hope he's clean, but I'm afraid he's not"....To, probably about 3 years ago....."No doubt, HE DOPED!"

Therefore, while I certainly don't excuse or justify what he did...In a lot of ways it's just reality of the culture of the sport. I never believed Lance was a Saint when I thought he was riding clean, just like I don't think he's the devil now that I know he doped.

He's a HECK of an athlete with an unbelievable drive and focus to win....Some view that as an asset, some view it as a fault....In reality, it's probably a little of both.

Again, not excusing or justifying what he did...But I'm still a fan and like the guy. I think he got caught up in lie and there was no way out. In my opinion, while flawed (like all of us)...If you throw Lance's life on a scale, the good outweighs the bad.

Ditto on everything, except I'm no longer a fan of the guy. I hate lying, and I don't care if "everybody's doing it." Even children are taught you don't do it just because everyone else is. I was a big fan of his, and he really let his fans and cancer survivors down.

But, you can't take away the fact that he is also an amazing athlete.

He may not have been an amazing athlete if he had not been on drugs. May have been just another guy with a bicycle.

No way. Just reading about his training was unbelievable. From what I understand, steroids give athletes and edge, but they don't turn a couch potato into a Tour de Francer.

Logged

The pedigree of honey Does not concern the bee; A clover, any time, to him Is aristocracy. ---Emily Dickinson

I've been a recreational cyclist for the last 10 years, something that likely would have never happened if not for Lance Armstrong, and I truly love the sport. I've been what most would describe as a huge Lance Armstrong fan and have followed both the sport and the Tour closely. Therefore, I have a much more in depth understanding of the situation than the average sports fan.Throughout the years of being a Lance fan my opinion has evolved from; "He would never dope" to "It's possible, but I think he's clean", to "I really hope he's clean, but I'm afraid he's not"....To, probably about 3 years ago....."No doubt, HE DOPED!"

Therefore, while I certainly don't excuse or justify what he did...In a lot of ways it's just reality of the culture of the sport. I never believed Lance was a Saint when I thought he was riding clean, just like I don't think he's the devil now that I know he doped.

He's a HECK of an athlete with an unbelievable drive and focus to win....Some view that as an asset, some view it as a fault....In reality, it's probably a little of both.

Again, not excusing or justifying what he did...But I'm still a fan and like the guy. I think he got caught up in lie and there was no way out. In my opinion, while flawed (like all of us)...If you throw Lance's life on a scale, the good outweighs the bad.

Ditto on everything, except I'm no longer a fan of the guy. I hate lying, and I don't care if "everybody's doing it." Even children are taught you don't do it just because everyone else is. I was a big fan of his, and he really let his fans and cancer survivors down.

But, you can't take away the fact that he is also an amazing athlete.

He may not have been an amazing athlete if he had not been on drugs. May have been just another guy with a bicycle.

No way. Just reading about his training was unbelievable. From what I understand, steroids give athletes and edge, but they don't turn a couch potato into a Tour de Francer.

Very few couch potatos have bicycles and since the whole world knows he used drugs to accomplish what he accomplished we will never really know what his accomplishments would have been without drugs. You can guess all you want but you can't erase the truth.

I've long held Lance Armstrong as, in my mind, of of the greatest (if not THE greatest) athlete this country has produced in all time. Even with the doping, considering what he has gone through to achieve what he did, he is still one of the greats. -james