Sean Quixote wrote:I really need to start watching this show on the regular, again. I have NO idea what's going on... Okay, well, at least more so than I currently do with House, anyway...

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But anyway... where are they supposed to go from here? With Gus dead, where's the drama? This IS just a season finale, not the end of the series... right?

I don't even know who the little kid is that they thought Gus poisoned... I assume one of either Jesse's or Walter's relatives...

Haha, wow, you should really watch any episodes you missed.

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Brock is Jesse's girlfriend's son. The drama will come when Jesse realizes it was Walt who poisoned Brock. If he realizes it (I hope he does).

Plus,

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his wife now knows he is actually killing people, which makes a lot of things much more difficult to rationalize. (She'll probably still try for a while.) I'm still hoping his son follows up on that "Jesse" thing sometime, somehow. If that gun Walt dropped before they burned the place doesn't come up again sometime I will be surprised-- they just lingered on it too much. If Hank didn't give up the chase before he might not now. And there's no way Walt is simply going to retire... Jesse might be tempted to give it a shot though. And if Jesse learns about Brock, or about that girlfriend a couple seasons back... (Where *did* the ricin go?)

...But yeah, this whole season has really felt like a finale. Two episodes back I was all "are you SURE this isn't the season finale??" I'm sure they'll think of something, but yeah, the whole season has been so... climactic. Things blew up, for heaven's sake...

his wife now knows he is actually killing people, which makes a lot of things much more difficult to rationalize. (She'll probably still try for a while.) I'm still hoping his son follows up on that "Jesse" thing sometime, somehow. If that gun Walt dropped before they burned the place doesn't come up again sometime I will be surprised-- they just lingered on it too much. If Hank didn't give up the chase before he might not now. And there's no way Walt is simply going to retire... Jesse might be tempted to give it a shot though. And if Jesse learns about Brock, or about that girlfriend a couple seasons back... (Where *did* the ricin go?)

...But yeah, this whole season has really felt like a finale. Two episodes back I was all "are you SURE this isn't the season finale??" I'm sure they'll think of something, but yeah, the whole season has been so... climactic. Things blew up, for heaven's sake...

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Well, I'm pretty sure the gun is untraceable, but who knows? Maybe the DEA knows the person he bought it from. I don't know how Skylar will be able to rationalize him killing three people. And let's not forget the security camera footage Gus might have on his computers. That could definitely come into play later on.

And yeah, things really did BLOW UP HAHAHA. GET IT??

The Humanity for the Undead Coalition: Bringing Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness to the Undead and Other Supernatural Humanoids. Zombies don't eat people; people eat people!

Should I be asking why this show is so good! at suspense, or why so many shows are really really bad at it? (I am disappointed with American Horror Story)

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They definitely made a point that the gun was untraceable, serial numbers filed off, black market etc. It's no guarantee that things won't be traced back to Walt. Though, I'd think the main concern would be documentation Gus might have, or possibly finger prints form Jesse, although I don't know if it's confirmed that he'd in the system.

It almost seems silly to speculate, because it seems to me that the writers themselves haven't decided on a lot of things. Like, I notice they were careful to not outright state that Ted died from the accident. Mike, similarly hasn't been mentioned.

I am still kind of scratching my head at the video game product placement that happened a few episodes back. Both because of what it does to the timeline, and because that is an interesting context to want your product associated with. Although I do have to admit that I kind of want to play that game, and it was one of the more seamless instances of product placement, save for the commercial breaks pointing it out.

Back to The Ending

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They kind of have to tone things down, or at least step back and go a different direction. they couldn't top mass murder, the same way they couldn't top the plane crash season 2 ended with.

I frickin' love all the parallels in the show.

Also, I don't think Walt did it. I think it really was an accident and the consequences just show the kind of paranoia the environment they're in breeds. (It's a convoluted scheme which Walt barely has the means, and as guilty as he feels about driving Jesse away it's not likely he has the motive. He's also not real consistent on his people reading/emotional prediction skills. Look at how long it took him to piece together why the door costs $20 thousand to replace.) It's not impossible though, and it does show that this is something Walt is capable of.

Being the rational person he is, I suspect Gus simply underestimated Jessie's brains, (due to what he's observed of his behavior) and figured he would just blow Walt away without listening to any denials.

That bit where Gus walks out of the room after the explosion threw me for a second since It seemed like they were pulling the old "villain miraculously and implausibly survives cause' he's the villan" bit. Likewise with the dude banging away on the button a dozen times before the bomb went off making it look like it might be a dud. Really, I probably should have known better since this show consistently does a good job of avoiding tired cliche's. The writers actually managed to zing us twice with the same bluff in rapid sucession. Kudoes to them.

The camera pan where we see the ruined half of Gus' face was right out of Resident Evil.

Also, I don't think Walt did it. I think it really was an accident and the consequences just show the kind of paranoia the environment they're in breeds. (It's a convoluted scheme which Walt barely has the means, and as guilty as he feels about driving Jesse away it's not likely he has the motive. He's also not real consistent on his people reading/emotional prediction skills. Look at how long it took him to piece together why the door costs $20 thousand to replace.) It's not impossible though, and it does show that this is something Walt is capable of.

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I don't think there is really any ambiguity about whether he did it. Right before Brock goes to the hospital, Walter spun his gun, landing twice on himself before turning to the same plant that was used to poison Brock. Even if they hadn't panned in on the name of the flower at the end of the episode, I think it would have still been obvious. But that last shot eliminated any doubt, in my opinion.

Just caught up with the end of Season 4. Wow... Just wow. That final shot of Gus especially, I'll probably be seeing that in my nightmares

cephalopod9 wrote:I am still kind of scratching my head at the video game product placement that happened a few episodes back. Both because of what it does to the timeline, and because that is an interesting context to want your product associated with. Although I do have to admit that I kind of want to play that game, and it was one of the more seamless instances of product placement, save for the commercial breaks pointing it out.

I don't watch commercials so it barely even registered as product placement. I didn't realize you could play Rage with a light-gun like that though.

Roosevelt wrote:

I wrote:Does Space Teddy Roosevelt wrestle Space Bears and fight the Space Spanish-American War with his band of Space-volunteers the Space Rough Riders?

This is the best show on cable and pretty much the only show I watch week in and week out. The writing is top notch as is the acting. Bryan Cranston is phenomenal and the cast is great. If you haven't checked out any episodes, do yourself a favor and give it a try. You'll get hooked.

Ah yes, the level headed, hyper competent island of sanity who can just barely keep the last remnants of her husband anchored as he slips further from control and reason, all the while getting next to nothing in recognition for her hard work and the emotional duress she endures. How could we possibly tolerate more of that?

There are way too many people who want to dump vitriol on her for all the worst reasons. I am angry at you for agreeing with them.

roband wrote:The way lines are delivered, the faces which are pulled when lines are delivered, maybe the character has a little to do with it - but I'm not sure.

I'm with you on disliking Skylar/Anna Gunn. Skylar is an obnoxious, humorless, hypocritical character who almost never does anything cool. And I thought Anna Gunn gave a weak performance on Deadwood, the only other thing I've seen her in. But it doesn't detract from the show, for me, because I enjoy rooting for Skylar's downfall.

dubsola wrote:That's a load of codswallop. I can only assume you've not tried to empathise. She has an asshole husband! Walt consistently puts her and her family at risk. He is completely dishonest.

Yeah, I'm not saying she's worse than Walt, or as morally bankrupt as he is. Walt is an idiot who jeopardizes his family, but he also deals meth, blows shit up, and gives awesome speeches about who knocks. Skylar, on the other hand, is just a boring shrew who doesn't entertain me.

My impression is that many viewers are unfamiliar with the sight of either a woman aging past 40 while maintain a presence and expressing genuine emotion (outside of the rare badass granny), or a t.v. mom who has a single grain of back bone to her character. Which is why they react to her with confusion and hostility, finding it difficult to invest in her story, despite it being well written, well delivered, complex, and inextricable from the main plot.

It is understandable that you find her inaccessible, and unlikeable as a character when it's so rare for t.v. to ask you to engage with this category of human being, instead of seeing her as part of the background, or set up for the real characters to take action. However, that doesn't make her a bad character, or a poor performance from the actress.

What makes her a "shrew"? (aside from your predilection for antiquated sexism) Is it putting a basic sense of self preservation ahead of tending to the increasingly wanton needs and impulses of her husband? Because I feel like people are misreading... all of her motives in favor of the convenience of characterizing her as a pointlessly vindictive spoilsport. I understand that she's largely antagonistic to Walter, and his goals, but if you step outside of his personal narrative just a tiny bit, that's the only reasonable position for anyone to take.

If she's not as bad as Walt, or even just as bad but in a different way, then she's not a hypocrite. She would be a hypocrite if she was manufacturing dangerous drugs and running off to RV camping trips with a man 20 years her younger while telling Walt not, but she isn't. She loses moral ground, and has character flaws, because she is a human being.

jakovasaur wrote:

dubsola wrote:That's a load of codswallop. I can only assume you've not tried to empathise. She has an asshole husband! Walt consistently puts her and her family at risk. He is completely dishonest.

Yeah, I'm not saying she's worse than Walt, or as morally bankrupt as he is. Walt is an idiot who jeopardizes his family

I liked this scene as a dark reprise of one of his earliest acts of rebellion/taking control of his life, sabotaging that obnoxious guy's (KEN WINS) car at the gas station. With circumstances inverted, and the car now Walter's, it shows his loosening grip on reality and control

She was hypocritical when she said to Walt that she maybe doesn't lie as well as he does. The scene in the jewelery store, how she more or less instantly came up with the gambling etc. She's probably a better liar than Walt because she is more empathic with people in general.

I have to say this is the best show I ever watched. I can't find a flaw in it or an episode I wouldn't watch several times. I like how they averted Hollywood Healing - how wounds heal and how long recovery takes etc. is just impressive. I love how with Walt, even when he wasn't yet a badass, you somehow feel he is not Mr. Rogers, that under his nice school teacher mild mannered suburb dad there is rage, pride, contempt and pain. He is highly intelligent, he worked on research that went on to win a Nobel Prize! His mind works on a whole different level than that of the people around him, and he knows it. Many people say Walt is changing from Mr. Rogers to Scarface, but I think that Walt always was like this. He's getting used to the day-to-day work of gangsters, sure, but his persona was like this all along. I never in my life would have thought that Bryan Cranston is that good. It's just mindblowing. When Walt was begging Jesse, he did it in a way that I had not a doubt in my mind that he didn't do it.

Maybe I'm a bad person, but interestingly, I'm on Walt's side outside of two things, namely

Spoiler:

a) letting Jane die and b) poisoning Brock

.

I'm for legalizing all drugs anyway (alcohol is horrible, dangerous, and deadly in fairly low doses for unaccustomed people if drinking hard stuff), people should be allowed to put in their bodies what they want. But that's not a discussion for this thread I suppose.

In Gale's case:

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I think it was not right to kill Gale in the sense that he is fairly innocent, but it was for self-preservation.

If I didn't miss any, then every other dead person died while being knowingly in a line of work where this is an accepted risk. It's of course not the right thing, but I wouldn't miss sleep over it either. I'm not counting the season two finale here because he didn't do it intentionally (which is what counts for me in a drama. Obviously it's still a bad thing).

The subtlety is astounding, there are so many small things where the quality shows.

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- Jane, when first doing Heroin with Jesse, injects him in the arm but herself between the toes- the gun in season 4 finale pointing at the plant- the wound healing process and recovery process

What gives me goosebumps is what I call Walt's demon voice. You notice when he is really angry and gets a little bit louder and his voice suddenly has some gravel in it (it's very noticable compared to his soft-spoken mild voice) - I find it hard to describe what I mean - but it's really intimidating. Cranston is my acting hero!

PS: Was searching for something about Breaking Bad on TVTropes. Thank you so much, TVTropes. No wait, damn you TVTropes. Like 20 minutes and I have 27 tabs open already and yet to read.

Laserdan wrote:Maybe I'm a bad person, but interestingly, I'm on Walt's side outside of two things

What about

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staying in the drug trade and putting himself and his family in danger when he could have swallowed his pride and taken Elliot's money?

a)

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I'm withholding any judgement on that part because I don't know what exactly happened between them. Walt participated in Nobel Prize research too but he doesn't have one, and

b)

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Walt's target wasn't only to pay for his treatment. His treatment, in total, was actually one of the smaller parts. It is stated quite often that even though his therapy is going well, it is just a matter of time till he'd dies from it, and he wants to die with the knowledge that his family is taken care off, at least financially - mortgage, college tuition, groceries, utilities, etc. In the first episode of season 2, he actually lists what he needs.

Also,

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it can be said that at some point after working with Gus, earning about 250k $ a week, that part should be taken care of. I do not have a problem with the morality of cooking meth and selling it. I follow Gale's argument here - consenting adults will do what they do anyway, and Walt delivers a clean product. He tried to keep Jessie from killing the two drug dealers who where effectively responsible for Combo's death and directly for Andrea's brother's death - when he knew Jessie will do it, he kills them to save Jessie.

It is quite clear that Walt does have also other underlying motives such as pride, and it is even possible that he wouldn't have taken Elliott's money even if it guaranteed for his family's standard of life, but he wants to be the one remembered for providing for his family, not someone he was closely friends with but has come to despise for unknown reasons.

Laserdan wrote:Maybe I'm a bad person, but interestingly, I'm on Walt's side outside of two things

What about

Spoiler:

staying in the drug trade and putting himself and his family in danger when he could have swallowed his pride and taken Elliot's money?

I don't have a problem with this, and while I think a lot of people see this as Walt's fatal flaw, I think it makes him admirable. The fact that he said, "enough is enough", and decided to take control of his own fate, do things on his own terms, and stop relying on other people. Sure, it was a risky course of action, and it might not end well, but I find it more noble than giving himself up to people who have screwed him over.

In the very least, it makes him human. That is probably what I love the most about Breaking Bad - how real these invented people seem. Walt doesn't make stupid mistakes that fit into an idiot plot, but he does mistakes because he is full of pride - and rightly so if I may remark; he's a brilliant chemist, and if he stayed with Gray Matter he'd been a millionaire easily, and at least in the top line of chemists in the nation.

By the way, my easily most favorite part was when in season 2 when

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they were sitting ducks in the RV, Hank being outside, the surprisingly law-knowledgable junkyard guy the only thing keeping him out, and running out of time because the search warrant was on its way. They knew Hank wouldn't leave even if it took a day; it's not just that he looks like a pitbull. And I thought to myself, damn, what outside of an unbelievable deus ex machina could save them? I was fully expecting a "jumping the shark" moment; I was expecting the show to be ruined. And then they resolve it in the most awesome, great, perfect way storywise. It was a huge dick move, no question, but storywise, it was simply genius. For me it was the same feeling like I had at the end of the first ASoIaF book, you know, what happens to Ned. You expect it to go stupid or cliche because it just can't be possible to keep this awesomeness up any longer. Then it hits you RIGHT in the face.

That was the moment I went out and bought all seasons of Breaking Bad on DVD.

Sean Quixote wrote:Well so much for the 'final season as denouement' theory... I think it's going to end with Hank punching Walt in the face, then taking a 'bribe' and everyone walks off into the sunset.

I think it's fairly inevitable that Hank, seemingly the only cop in Albequerque with any ability to think outside the box, is going to eventually find out that it's been his brother-in-law behind the drama of the last couple years of their lives. The only question after that is whether their family connection will play any role in the conflict of interest he will soon face: will Hank be able to appreciate what little good Walt has attempted to do (doing his part in keeping Hank alive when he could have simply allowed the biggest threat to him to disappear probably not the least among these) or only be able to see him as the monster (that he truly is)?

My speculation is that Walt will have just enough suspense-riddled time between Hank finding him out and turning him in to explain enough things to at least give Hank pause, then one or the other of them will remember/realize that money talks. Then at some point Hank'll smack some small iota of sense into Walt, perhaps with his crutch rather than his fist.

Spoiler:

Perhaps more trigger warning than spoiler warning:

That last scene, the "I forgive you," was sickeningly scary. Walt has not only become a monster, he is embracing (pun absolutely NOT intended, just in case) the monster - he thinks he is a god. After all, he has defeated cancer, Gus, continually evaded discovery by the authorities of whom his brother-in-law is a part, hell, he probably thinks of himself of a more direct cause of the plane crash than he really was. The "good guy" in him is losing battle after battle, that is, assuming it hasn't long ago lost the war.

I can't help but wonder why Skylar has ostensibly gone back to him in the first place, though maybe it's better-explained in a season 3 'sode that I haven't seen yet. Though, she's going through her own transformation as well - the sheer speed with which she went from unbearable guilt to complicit relief about Ted's vow of silence was almost as jarring as the final scene.

Walt has not beaten cancer. He has been in remission, but he still likely has very little time left. In the opening of Season 5 Episode 1, he was clearly coughing that cancer cough again. I am betting the show ends with Walter dead, (either cancer or murdered) or in prison, and with many of those around him suffering similar fates.

I have no doubt that the show will end up with Walt dead. The only question is if it will just be Walt, or will it be a Hamlet-style finale where everyone dies and then someone comes in to say that "Rosenbadger and Guildenpete are dead."