Mrzuki wrote:Here's another way to look at it --- it was one game. Seattle lost to Indy, SF and Arizona. They were incredibly lucky not to lose to two of the worst teams in the league, Houston and Tampa. I know everything changes in the playoffs and the Broncos weren't built to win in the playoffs, except they did. They won the AFC Championship and Peyton who can't win in the playoffs according to some is now 3-1 in the AFC Championship game. Let me repeat this --- it was ONE GAME.

they might have won the AFC but it's probably safe to say they were the 4th or 5th best team in the NFL.

had they lost by 3 I would agree that it was just one game..but the greatest offense in NFL history was completely shut down and the entire VETERAN LADEN team and coaching staff looked lost.

It is not safe to say they were the 4th or 5th best team in the NFL. It is only safe to say that is what you think. The Broncos won 26 regular season games in the last two years. At one point in time they were on a 17 game winning streak. In a league with a single elimination tournament at the end of the year you are never quite sure who was the best.

You seem to be critical of the Broncos spending millions on the defense in the off season because according to you the defense didn't lose the Super Bowl. I agree with you 100% that the defense did not lose the Super Bowl, but can you think of one of the 15 wins prior to the SB that the defense actually won. I can't and there should be at least a few times when the offense is stymied that the defense carries the day.

let me rephrase...had they not got their rear ends handed then I would say it was just one game.

It is safe to say the super bowl beatdown was worse than the one they were handed in NE...but at least that team had an excuse for getting dominating...they were starting a TE at QB as opposed to the supposed best QB in NFL history with all his weapons.

Getting decapitated in the 2nd round of the playoffs is better than getting clobbered in the Super Bowl? Not to me it isn't.

For one thing I IMMENSELY enjoyed the Broncos being the team that sat down both Rivers and Brady for the rest of the season last year. Not to mention the scrod.

For another, I've definitely enjoyed watching the Broncos quarterback play the last two seasons - as opposed to the dog and pony show we had at that position for the two seasons prior. Despite a small handful of stinkers the last 2 seasons, I've definitely enjoyed that.

Of course the Broncos need to try and figure out why the SB was such a dud. On both sides of the ball. They need to accurately determine how it was, and how it wasn't, "just one game". Their chances of winning the SB next season depend on it.

But I'll never understand the comparisons to winning a wild card game, or getting annihilated in a division round game, to playing in the Super Bowl. Despite last year's SB being a big letdown.

Last edited by HaleAndHearty on April 21st, 2014, 6:22 pm, edited 2 times in total.

Mrzuki wrote:Here's another way to look at it --- it was one game. Seattle lost to Indy, SF and Arizona. They were incredibly lucky not to lose to two of the worst teams in the league, Houston and Tampa. I know everything changes in the playoffs and the Broncos weren't built to win in the playoffs, except they did. They won the AFC Championship and Peyton who can't win in the playoffs according to some is now 3-1 in the AFC Championship game. Let me repeat this --- it was ONE GAME.

they might have won the AFC but it's probably safe to say they were the 4th or 5th best team in the NFL.

had they lost by 3 I would agree that it was just one game..but the greatest offense in NFL history was completely shut down and the entire VETERAN LADEN team and coaching staff looked lost.

It is not safe to say they were the 4th or 5th best team in the NFL. It is only safe to say that is what you think. The Broncos won 26 regular season games in the last two years. At one point in time they were on a 17 game winning streak. In a league with a single elimination tournament at the end of the year you are never quite sure who was the best.

You seem to be critical of the Broncos spending millions on the defense in the off season because according to you the defense didn't lose the Super Bowl. I agree with you 100% that the defense did not lose the Super Bowl, but can you think of one of the 15 wins prior to the SB that the defense actually won. I can't and there should be at least a few times when the offense is stymied that the defense carries the day.

You know Zuk, I don't even think they have to carry the day.

They just have to make more big, game-changing plays, at least be able to pressure the opposing offense into giving up the ball occasionally. Give the offense and the rest of the team the feeling that it isn't ALL on them (the offense), every game.

Some people here seem to believe the Broncos have to return to the days of a TD type running offense in order for the Broncs to have a chance of winning the SB. What I remembered (and I just watched it again recently) of Denver's SB win over Green Bay (in addition to the dominant running game) was a defense that, in addition to sometimes giving up killer drives to Favre's offense, MADE A LOT OF BIG PLAYS.

Sacks. At least one sack-fumble. Atwater playing as good a game as he'd EVER played, IMO. Turnovers. Momentum changing plays.

Those things were lacking almost entirely from Denver's defense last year, and I see the Broncos doing a lot already to try and get back to having that kind of defense.

One thing I will agree with Ken about is, this team is NOT going to trot out a 1997-8 Bronco offense this next season.

But I don't think they have to. Do they have to be "more balanced"? It certainly seems they may have to be able to play offense in more than the one way they approached the last SB game, that certainly seems obvious. So I'm interested to see how they approach that.

AND they have to field a more dynamic defense than they did most of last season. No question whatsoever about that, in my mind.

Mrzuki wrote:Here's another way to look at it --- it was one game. Seattle lost to Indy, SF and Arizona. They were incredibly lucky not to lose to two of the worst teams in the league, Houston and Tampa. I know everything changes in the playoffs and the Broncos weren't built to win in the playoffs, except they did. They won the AFC Championship and Peyton who can't win in the playoffs according to some is now 3-1 in the AFC Championship game. Let me repeat this --- it was ONE GAME.

they might have won the AFC but it's probably safe to say they were the 4th or 5th best team in the NFL.

had they lost by 3 I would agree that it was just one game..but the greatest offense in NFL history was completely shut down and the entire VETERAN LADEN team and coaching staff looked lost.

It is not safe to say they were the 4th or 5th best team in the NFL. It is only safe to say that is what you think. The Broncos won 26 regular season games in the last two years. At one point in time they were on a 17 game winning streak. In a league with a single elimination tournament at the end of the year you are never quite sure who was the best.

You seem to be critical of the Broncos spending millions on the defense in the off season because according to you the defense didn't lose the Super Bowl. I agree with you 100% that the defense did not lose the Super Bowl, but can you think of one of the 15 wins prior to the SB that the defense actually won. I can't and there should be at least a few times when the offense is stymied that the defense carries the day.

Seattle better, SF better...NO better...

as for all the wins...outside of possibly NE in the playoff game, what good team did they beat again? they lost to every good team they played in the last 2 years.

as for spending money on defense...they had to because if they didn't replace Phillips, DRC it would have been much worse. It is my opinion that the defense, with the exception of getting Ward, is not appreciably better. they just changed out the prior years rental players...and yes it's my opinion..just like others opinions are that all the FA were HR's. we can discuss this move next March

Repeat after me....The much maligned defense did not lose the Super Bowl...The blame goes to the Coaching staff and the High Flying Offense led by #18...

Mrzuki wrote:Here's another way to look at it --- it was one game. Seattle lost to Indy, SF and Arizona. They were incredibly lucky not to lose to two of the worst teams in the league, Houston and Tampa. I know everything changes in the playoffs and the Broncos weren't built to win in the playoffs, except they did. They won the AFC Championship and Peyton who can't win in the playoffs according to some is now 3-1 in the AFC Championship game. Let me repeat this --- it was ONE GAME.

they might have won the AFC but it's probably safe to say they were the 4th or 5th best team in the NFL.

had they lost by 3 I would agree that it was just one game..but the greatest offense in NFL history was completely shut down and the entire VETERAN LADEN team and coaching staff looked lost.

It is not safe to say they were the 4th or 5th best team in the NFL. It is only safe to say that is what you think. The Broncos won 26 regular season games in the last two years. At one point in time they were on a 17 game winning streak. In a league with a single elimination tournament at the end of the year you are never quite sure who was the best.

You seem to be critical of the Broncos spending millions on the defense in the off season because according to you the defense didn't lose the Super Bowl. I agree with you 100% that the defense did not lose the Super Bowl, but can you think of one of the 15 wins prior to the SB that the defense actually won. I can't and there should be at least a few times when the offense is stymied that the defense carries the day.

You know Zuk, I don't even think they have to carry the day.

They just have to make more big, game-changing plays, at least be able to pressure the opposing offense into giving up the ball occasionally. Give the offense and the rest of the team the feeling that it isn't ALL on them (the offense), every game.

Some people here seem to believe the Broncos have to return to the days of a TD type running offense in order for the Broncs to have a chance of winning the SB. What I remembered (and I just watched it again recently) of Denver's SB win over Green Bay (in addition to the dominant running game) was a defense that, in addition to sometimes giving up killer drives to Favre's offense, MADE A LOT OF BIG PLAYS.

Sacks. At least one sack-fumble. Atwater playing as good a game as he'd EVER played, IMO. Turnovers. Momentum changing plays.

Those things were lacking almost entirely from Denver's defense last year, and I see the Broncos doing a lot already to try and get back to having that kind of defense.

One thing I will agree with Ken about is, this team is NOT going to trot out a 1997-8 Bronco offense this next season.

But I don't think they have to. Do they have to be "more balanced"? It certainly seems they may have to be able to play offense in more than the one way they approached the last SB game, that certainly seems obvious. So I'm interested to see how they approach that.

AND they have to field a more dynamic defense than they did most of last seacson. No question whatsoever about that, in my mind.

completely agree..the defense didn't lose the game but they did nothing to win it either.

not sure if you are going to get "balanced" under a PM offense..it's not his history

Repeat after me....The much maligned defense did not lose the Super Bowl...The blame goes to the Coaching staff and the High Flying Offense led by #18...

Mrzuki wrote:Here's another way to look at it --- it was one game. Seattle lost to Indy, SF and Arizona. They were incredibly lucky not to lose to two of the worst teams in the league, Houston and Tampa. I know everything changes in the playoffs and the Broncos weren't built to win in the playoffs, except they did. They won the AFC Championship and Peyton who can't win in the playoffs according to some is now 3-1 in the AFC Championship game. Let me repeat this --- it was ONE GAME.

they might have won the AFC but it's probably safe to say they were the 4th or 5th best team in the NFL.

had they lost by 3 I would agree that it was just one game..but the greatest offense in NFL history was completely shut down and the entire VETERAN LADEN team and coaching staff looked lost.

It is not safe to say they were the 4th or 5th best team in the NFL. It is only safe to say that is what you think. The Broncos won 26 regular season games in the last two years. At one point in time they were on a 17 game winning streak. In a league with a single elimination tournament at the end of the year you are never quite sure who was the best.

You seem to be critical of the Broncos spending millions on the defense in the off season because according to you the defense didn't lose the Super Bowl. I agree with you 100% that the defense did not lose the Super Bowl, but can you think of one of the 15 wins prior to the SB that the defense actually won. I can't and there should be at least a few times when the offense is stymied that the defense carries the day.

Seattle better, SF better...NO better...

as for all the wins...outside of possibly NE in the playoff game, what good team did they beat again? they lost to every good team they played in the last 2 years.

as for spending money on defense...they had to because if they didn't replace Phillips, DRC it would have been much worse. It is my opinion that the defense, with the exception of getting Ward, is not appreciably better. they just changed out the prior years rental players...and yes it's my opinion..just like others opinions are that all the FA were HR's. we can discuss this move next March

Completely disagree.

My opinion is, Denver would have beaten SF. They'd have found a way to regularly move the ball against the Niner defense (as they did in preseason, since that's supposedly a great way to judge later games now, around here anyway). Kaper would have had 2-3 turnovers by himself, and Denver would have won by at least a touchdown.

And the Broncos would have beaten NO by 14-17, scoring 50+ points. I'll call it 52-38.

Ward is a HUGE upgrade. HUGE. MONSTROUS.

If all Ware does is what Phillips did (on the field and in the locker room), then feel free to call that signing a bad one.

Personally, I am very relieved the Broncos jettisoned DRC. Regardless of who took his spot. He was a turnip truck waiting to crash. The dude is flat-out a head case, and he's lazy. Yes, he played well most of last year. And that ISN'T going to last. I think Talib is a risk strictly from an injury standpoint - other than that, he has a chance to be a HUGE upgrade over DRC, all things considered.

This "good team"/"not a good team" thing ... Let's just say that if the Broncos don't win the Super Bowl against a heavy favorite, they didn't beat any good teams all season long. And call it a day.

Last edited by HaleAndHearty on April 21st, 2014, 6:46 pm, edited 2 times in total.

Mrzuki wrote:Here's another way to look at it --- it was one game. Seattle lost to Indy, SF and Arizona. They were incredibly lucky not to lose to two of the worst teams in the league, Houston and Tampa. I know everything changes in the playoffs and the Broncos weren't built to win in the playoffs, except they did. They won the AFC Championship and Peyton who can't win in the playoffs according to some is now 3-1 in the AFC Championship game. Let me repeat this --- it was ONE GAME.

they might have won the AFC but it's probably safe to say they were the 4th or 5th best team in the NFL.

had they lost by 3 I would agree that it was just one game..but the greatest offense in NFL history was completely shut down and the entire VETERAN LADEN team and coaching staff looked lost.

It is not safe to say they were the 4th or 5th best team in the NFL. It is only safe to say that is what you think. The Broncos won 26 regular season games in the last two years. At one point in time they were on a 17 game winning streak. In a league with a single elimination tournament at the end of the year you are never quite sure who was the best.

You seem to be critical of the Broncos spending millions on the defense in the off season because according to you the defense didn't lose the Super Bowl. I agree with you 100% that the defense did not lose the Super Bowl, but can you think of one of the 15 wins prior to the SB that the defense actually won. I can't and there should be at least a few times when the offense is stymied that the defense carries the day.

You know Zuk, I don't even think they have to carry the day.

They just have to make more big, game-changing plays, at least be able to pressure the opposing offense into giving up the ball occasionally. Give the offense and the rest of the team the feeling that it isn't ALL on them (the offense), every game.

Some people here seem to believe the Broncos have to return to the days of a TD type running offense in order for the Broncs to have a chance of winning the SB. What I remembered (and I just watched it again recently) of Denver's SB win over Green Bay (in addition to the dominant running game) was a defense that, in addition to sometimes giving up killer drives to Favre's offense, MADE A LOT OF BIG PLAYS.

Sacks. At least one sack-fumble. Atwater playing as good a game as he'd EVER played, IMO. Turnovers. Momentum changing plays.

Those things were lacking almost entirely from Denver's defense last year, and I see the Broncos doing a lot already to try and get back to having that kind of defense.

One thing I will agree with Ken about is, this team is NOT going to trot out a 1997-8 Bronco offense this next season.

But I don't think they have to. Do they have to be "more balanced"? It certainly seems they may have to be able to play offense in more than the one way they approached the last SB game, that certainly seems obvious. So I'm interested to see how they approach that.

AND they have to field a more dynamic defense than they did most of last seacson. No question whatsoever about that, in my mind.

completely agree..the defense didn't lose the game but they did nothing to win it either.

not sure if you are going to get "balanced" under a PM offense..it's not his history

Again, I agree with you on this point.

I remain amazed that the Broncos offense apparently wasn't prepared for the SB crowd noise. And that they didn't at least try running plays out of a different formation(s). I'll be surprised if they don't show that at least some this next season.

Perhaps the possible move of Franklin to guard is a sign they intend to get better at running the ball, getting the tough yards that way.

But this is still Manning's show on offense. And frankly, despite the SB debacle, I think it should be. Not to mention, it's not so easy to construct a completely different offense in 1-2 seasons. Which is about how long I see Manning continuing to play.

Mrzuki wrote:Here's another way to look at it --- it was one game. Seattle lost to Indy, SF and Arizona. They were incredibly lucky not to lose to two of the worst teams in the league, Houston and Tampa. I know everything changes in the playoffs and the Broncos weren't built to win in the playoffs, except they did. They won the AFC Championship and Peyton who can't win in the playoffs according to some is now 3-1 in the AFC Championship game. Let me repeat this --- it was ONE GAME.

they might have won the AFC but it's probably safe to say they were the 4th or 5th best team in the NFL.

had they lost by 3 I would agree that it was just one game..but the greatest offense in NFL history was completely shut down and the entire VETERAN LADEN team and coaching staff looked lost.

It is not safe to say they were the 4th or 5th best team in the NFL. It is only safe to say that is what you think. The Broncos won 26 regular season games in the last two years. At one point in time they were on a 17 game winning streak. In a league with a single elimination tournament at the end of the year you are never quite sure who was the best.

You seem to be critical of the Broncos spending millions on the defense in the off season because according to you the defense didn't lose the Super Bowl. I agree with you 100% that the defense did not lose the Super Bowl, but can you think of one of the 15 wins prior to the SB that the defense actually won. I can't and there should be at least a few times when the offense is stymied that the defense carries the day.

Seattle better, SF better...NO better...

as for all the wins...outside of possibly NE in the playoff game, what good team did they beat again? they lost to every good team they played in the last 2 years.

as for spending money on defense...they had to because if they didn't replace Phillips, DRC it would have been much worse. It is my opinion that the defense, with the exception of getting Ward, is not appreciably better. they just changed out the prior years rental players...and yes it's my opinion..just like others opinions are that all the FA were HR's. we can discuss this move next March

No one was consistently better than the Broncos these past two years. Your strength of schedule argument is ridiculous and tiresome. It's the NFL not college, they can all beat you especially when they are at home. As I pointed out earlier it was a fluke that Seattle was able to get to OT to beat the worst team in the league (Houston).As far a "rental players" go, I don't know if you have heard about free agency and the salary cap --- they're all rental players to one degree or another.

Justabroncofan wrote:[quote="I think you are giving too much credit to the Seattle defense. No way the best defense in the last 10 years.

Let's look at the numbers. Who is your choice for best defense in the last decade and we will see how they compare.

The fact of the matter is the Broncos laid over for them.

Disagee. The fact of the matter is Denver got run over by them...especially the right tackle.

Why can't anyone just admit the team was soft and feasting on weak teams for most of the record setting season? It sure looks apparent to me.

Yeah but that's just a personal opinion. You can make the same statement about any team that has ever lost a Super Bowl.

Sure the Seahawks were tough. It's the Super Bowl. They came out ready to play and the Broncos looked for a place to hide after losing their composure and their will to win.

Did they lose their will too win...or was it taken away? I guess that's in the eye of the beholder. What I saw was a passing team that faced a defense that could cover and rush from both inside and outside. It had been the only time Denver had faced such a defense in the last 3 years.

I would have at least expected 3 td passes from Manning. He's a guy that's often called the GOAT right? All these pro bowl type receivers at his finger tips. His uncanny ability to fire off passes at 2.5 seconds while dominating time of possession with a hurry up no huddle offense designed especially for him to wear out a defense in a hurry. 8 points??

3 TD's? Nahh...that's a hope shot. I didn't see that at all. But I am curious. If you feel Denver played nothuing but soft opponents...why did you think Manning was going to cruise against the Seahawks?.u]3 Td's[/u][/b]

You mention a total of 341 yards for Seattle. Sounds pretty pedestrian to me in this day and age. Hell the Cards and Rams put that up easily against the Seahawks don't they? Any defense would be happy with that number in any game let alone in the Super Bowl.

Yes but Kenny was reffering too Russell Wilson as an average 2nd year QB. You put a guy that is completing 18- of 25 passes and a rushing game with 4.65 yards a carry..you are going to be doing pretty well.

That is of course if your offense is chipping in. The Broncos would put up that many yards in many of their first halves.

Yeah....but were you not just saying that it was done against soft competition?

I would feel safe in saying that the offense obviously fell apart and stunk up the game.

Yeah...but the difference is..I fully expected that. You obviously were taken by surprise. That's fine. I Just thought 3 tD's from Manning was going to be a huge stretch.

Mrzuki wrote:Here's another way to look at it --- it was one game. Seattle lost to Indy, SF and Arizona. They were incredibly lucky not to lose to two of the worst teams in the league, Houston and Tampa. I know everything changes in the playoffs and the Broncos weren't built to win in the playoffs, except they did. They won the AFC Championship and Peyton who can't win in the playoffs according to some is now 3-1 in the AFC Championship game. Let me repeat this --- it was ONE GAME.

they might have won the AFC but it's probably safe to say they were the 4th or 5th best team in the NFL.

had they lost by 3 I would agree that it was just one game..but the greatest offense in NFL history was completely shut down and the entire VETERAN LADEN team and coaching staff looked lost.

It is not safe to say they were the 4th or 5th best team in the NFL. It is only safe to say that is what you think. The Broncos won 26 regular season games in the last two years. At one point in time they were on a 17 game winning streak. In a league with a single elimination tournament at the end of the year you are never quite sure who was the best.

You seem to be critical of the Broncos spending millions on the defense in the off season because according to you the defense didn't lose the Super Bowl. I agree with you 100% that the defense did not lose the Super Bowl, but can you think of one of the 15 wins prior to the SB that the defense actually won. I can't and there should be at least a few times when the offense is stymied that the defense carries the day.

Seattle better, SF better...NO better...

as for all the wins...outside of possibly NE in the playoff game, what good team did they beat again? they lost to every good team they played in the last 2 years.

as for spending money on defense...they had to because if they didn't replace Phillips, DRC it would have been much worse. It is my opinion that the defense, with the exception of getting Ward, is not appreciably better. they just changed out the prior years rental players...and yes it's my opinion..just like others opinions are that all the FA were HR's. we can discuss this move next March

No one was consistently better than the Broncos these past two years. Your strength of schedule argument is ridiculous and tiresome. It's the NFL not college, they can all beat you especially when they are at home. As I pointed out earlier it was a fluke that Seattle was able to get to OT to beat the worst team in the league (Houston).As far a "rental players" go, I don't know if you have heard about free agency and the salary cap --- they're all rental players to one degree or another.

Prove to me where I'm wrong and I'll stop the posting that they have only beat one GOOD TEAM in the PM Era...I'm going strictly off the opponents record at the time they played and the "eye" test..so don't bring up the NFC East division winner from last year..someone had to win that sad sack division. Or try to say KC was a GOOD TEAM..we all know they were a fraud.

Is it great they aren't stumbling against the average to bad teams in the NFL? Yes...but that doesn't mean their record and stats aren't inflated. No different than the 8-8 record wasn't inflated due to playing teams without their best players and a gimmick offense that fooled the league for 4 weeks.

Repeat after me....The much maligned defense did not lose the Super Bowl...The blame goes to the Coaching staff and the High Flying Offense led by #18...

Justabroncofan wrote:[quote="I think you are giving too much credit to the Seattle defense. No way the best defense in the last 10 years.

Let's look at the numbers. Who is your choice for best defense in the last decade and we will see how they compare.

The fact of the matter is the Broncos laid over for them.

Disagee. The fact of the matter is Denver got run over by them...especially the right tackle.

Why can't anyone just admit the team was soft and feasting on weak teams for most of the record setting season? It sure looks apparent to me.

Yeah but that's just a personal opinion. You can make the same statement about any team that has ever lost a Super Bowl.

Sure the Seahawks were tough. It's the Super Bowl. They came out ready to play and the Broncos looked for a place to hide after losing their composure and their will to win.

Did they lose their will too win...or was it taken away? I guess that's in the eye of the beholder. What I saw was a passing team that faced a defense that could cover and rush from both inside and outside. It had been the only time Denver had faced such a defense in the last 3 years.

I would have at least expected 3 td passes from Manning. He's a guy that's often called the GOAT right? All these pro bowl type receivers at his finger tips. His uncanny ability to fire off passes at 2.5 seconds while dominating time of possession with a hurry up no huddle offense designed especially for him to wear out a defense in a hurry. 8 points??

3 TD's? Nahh...that's a hope shot. I didn't see that at all. But I am curious. If you feel Denver played nothuing but soft opponents...why did you think Manning was going to cruise against the Seahawks?.u]3 Td's[/u][/b]

You mention a total of 341 yards for Seattle. Sounds pretty pedestrian to me in this day and age. Hell the Cards and Rams put that up easily against the Seahawks don't they? Any defense would be happy with that number in any game let alone in the Super Bowl.

Yes but Kenny was reffering too Russell Wilson as an average 2nd year QB. You put a guy that is completing 18- of 25 passes and a rushing game with 4.65 yards a carry..you are going to be doing pretty well.

That is of course if your offense is chipping in. The Broncos would put up that many yards in many of their first halves.

Yeah....but were you not just saying that it was done against soft competition?

I would feel safe in saying that the offense obviously fell apart and stunk up the game.

Yeah...but the difference is..I fully expected that. You obviously were taken by surprise. That's fine. I Just thought 3 tD's from Manning was going to be a huge stretch.

The Little Guy

All you are doing is countering my OPINIONS with your OPINIONS. Very clever the way you take a flow of thoughts and chop them up into little soundbites.

I would compare some of the more consistent defenses over the years such as the Bears, Ravens, Steelers, and others to the Seahawks. The "numbers" really mean nothing to me as much as when a defense can take over a point in the game to make the difference.

Seattle has good young talent and is led by a very emotional and defensive minded coach. You know they really feed off of the Rah Rah stuff you poopooed. They get a team on the ropes they put their feet on the opponents neck. For a team like the record setting Broncos to have that happen for 60 minutes in a Super Bowl well, I would call that a major embarrassment. The Broncos didn't fight back. To me that is embarrassing and why I am continuing to put the blame on the offense and coaching staff while you credit the Seahawks. Like I have said over and over wins and losses do not matter to me. I look for the fight in a team and I just never saw it did you?

How did Seattle cause the Broncos to have such a poor opening of the game that it caused them to fall apart? That was all Denver. Manning set the tone for the blowout. There is absolutely no reason that a Hall of Fame QB shouldn't lead his team to a TD in the first half unless they were poorly prepared and not ready to play. Intimidated comes to mind. Choking comes to mind. Over rated comes to mind.

My OPINION is when Manning feels pressure he chokes. You don't have to have the best defense in the league to stymie Manning. All you need to do is hit Manning at crunch time. The Ravens did it the year before.

Now if you want to nit pick every sentence that is your right but nit pick these sentences first please. My OPINION is when Manning feels pressure he chokes. Peyton Manning despises getting his uniform dirty. John Fox has no idea how to rally a team when the chips are down.

Compare his OPINION to the FACTS:Peyton in his career has started 240 regular season games and won 167 (70%) of them including 51 4th quarter game winning drives.Peyton has thrown for almost 65,000 yards, completed 66% of his passes, thrown for 491 TD's (+18 rushing), had 217 INT's, 270 sacks and a career QBR of 97.7.Peyton has won 5 MVP's, 3 AFC Championships, 1 Super Bowl and 1 Super Bowl MVP.

Justabroncofan wrote:[quote=" All you are doing is countering my OPINIONS with your OPINIONS.

That's all any of us do.

I would compare some of the more consistent defenses over the years such as the Bears, Ravens, Steelers, and others to the Seahawks. The "numbers" really mean nothing to me as much as when a defense can take over a point in the game to make the difference.

The Seahawks can't compare to the Ravens, Steelers and Bears over the years as they are a new power. But for one season their numbers are right there with those teams.Traditionally the Seahawks blow. That is no longer the case. As for a defense taking over a game? I think what the Seahawk defense did in the Super Bowl is a text book example of taking over a game.

Seattle has good young talent and is led by a very emotional and defensive minded coach. You know they really feed off of the Rah Rah stuff you poopooed.

I disagree. I think they feed off of talent. I still poop that ragh..rah garbage. It certainly didn't work for Pete Carroll as coach of the Jets and Pats. I wonder why? Maybe....he didn't have very talented teams.

They get a team on the ropes they put their feet on the opponents neck. For a team like the record setting Broncos to have that happen for 60 minutes in a Super Bowl well, I would call that a major embarrassment. The Broncos didn't fight back.

It was embarraassing. How could it not be? The Cowboy loss...the Giants loss...the Skins..the Niners..they were all embarrassing. They does'nt change the fact that you will not beat a good defense with one phase of your attack developed

To me that is embarrassing and why I am continuing to put the blame on the offense and coaching staff while you credit the Seahawks.

The Seahwawks lived in the Denver back field on every play it seemed. How can i not give credit where it is due. Do I blame denver's offense? Too a degree...but what I blame them for is something that should have been going on in March of 2013...not on Super Bowl Sunday.

Like I have said over and over wins and losses do not matter to me. I look for the fight in a team and I just never saw it did you?

No. I did not. I saw demoralization typical of a team that has no answer. Go back and look at Gilbert Brown around the 3 quarter of Super bowl 32. You will see a guy who has no fight left in him. Why? Because Mike Holmgren was a crappy coach? No. Because he was being schooled by the Broncos O-line and had no answer for it.

How did Seattle cause the Broncos to have such a poor opening of the game that it caused them to fall apart? That was all Denver.

That was one play. That didn't even matter too me. Some say that set the tone. Bull. In Super Bowl 32 the Packers marched right down the field and scored a TD...and lost. In Super 22 we scored on our very first offensive play of the game. And lost. One play doesn't mean squat. Epecially a play that leads to a paultry two too zero lead.

Manning set the tone for the blowout. There is absolutely no reason that a Hall of Fame QB shouldn't lead his team to a TD.

If you successfully pressure a pocket passer you will win. Period. If Manning is a choker and over-rated then so is Tom Brady. When Brady gets heat...the Pats lose. They have now done it 4 straight times on the big stage. Either Super Bowl of Conference title./u]

My OPINION is when Manning feels pressure he chokes. You don't have to have the best defense in the league to stymie Manning. All you need to do is hit Manning at crunch time. The Ravens did it the year before.

[u]100% agree...but it's not just Manning and NFL history has shown it over and over. If you hit...pressure...make a pocket passer uncomfortable you are going to beat them. Everything you say about Manning can apply too Brady...Marino..Fouts and Jim Kelly.

My OPINION is when Manning feels pressure he chokes.

You can use that term if you'd like...but I feel pocket and a few other QB's when they get pressure will do the same. We can call Joe Montana a choker....every QB that faced the 85 Bears was a choker. Roger Staubach and Tom Brady are also chokers by that logic. Basically..I guess your opinion is..if a defense plays well it's because the QB choked. That's cool. You are entitled too that opinion.

kenplant2007 wrote:So the Broncos are back to lift weights and for BO to drink PM's bath water and this is the main sports news? Meanwhile the best sports story in this town is relegated to the back page...

Yet another article that lays the blame on the defense...you know what they did have? A future HOF QB that was outplayed by a 2nd year average QB. Not to mention a video game offense that could only score 8 points. The defense kept them in that game...the offense exposed for being a one trick pony

and the only sour taste in Miller's mouth is from cheetos and frozen white castles

Months from the kickoff of the 2014 season, people are already choosing their sides.... but, here's my take... there are 31 other teams with a shot week 1, and it narrows down every week... They look 'sexy' on paper,but then, REALITY sets in..... My prediction is they will have a good competitive season, but other teams have great Coaches and players too, and can break down film, and scouting reports also..... I say, they come up just short... again. Do not invest yourself emotionally in these games, just enjoy them as a good, loyal fan. Remember, Peyton got $20 Million per season to play here... did he break you off a piece of his good fortune in 2012? Or 2013? or 2014? (don't answer) Did you even get a free medium Pizza, or a free coke? At the end of the day, you'll be emotionally drained, and he will still be filthy rich..,and 'crying' all the way to the Bank, in the back of the BRINKS truck.

kenplant2007 wrote:So the Broncos are back to lift weights and for BO to drink PM's bath water and this is the main sports news? Meanwhile the best sports story in this town is relegated to the back page...

Yet another article that lays the blame on the defense...you know what they did have? A future HOF QB that was outplayed by a 2nd year average QB. Not to mention a video game offense that could only score 8 points. The defense kept them in that game...the offense exposed for being a one trick pony

and the only sour taste in Miller's mouth is from cheetos and frozen white castles

Months from the kickoff of the 2014 season, people are already choosing their sides.... but, here's my take... there are 31 other teams with a shot week 1, and it narrows down every week... They look 'sexy' on paper,but then, REALITY sets in..... My prediction is they will have a good competitive season, but other teams have great Coaches and players too, and can break down film, and scouting reports also..... I say, they come up just short... again. Do not invest yourself emotionally in these games, just enjoy them as a good, loyal fan. Remember, Peyton got $20 Million per season to play here... did he break you off a piece of his good fortune in 2012? Or 2013? or 2014? (don't answer) Did you even get a free medium Pizza, or a free coke? At the end of the day, you'll be emotionally drained, and he will still be filthy rich..,and 'crying' all the way to the Bank, in the back of the BRINKS truck.

Did Peyton get more than market value when you consider the price of Tom Brady, Drew Brees, Aaron Rodgers. Think about all the QB failures of Matt Schaub at Houston and now moving on to the Raiders who have now sent their QB to Seattle to back up everyone's favorite Smurph. How about Vince Young, Michael Vick, Geno Smith or that other first round pick, tim tebow. What about guys like Philip Rivers, Jay Cutler, Matt Ryan, Joe Flacco, Eli Manning and even guys like Tony Romo and Alex Smith.

Buying pizza you like at a price you think is fair is easy. Getting the best QB in the history of the NFL for fair value is genius. Thank you John Elway and most of all thank you Peyton Manning.

kenplant2007 wrote:So the Broncos are back to lift weights and for BO to drink PM's bath water and this is the main sports news? Meanwhile the best sports story in this town is relegated to the back page...

Yet another article that lays the blame on the defense...you know what they did have? A future HOF QB that was outplayed by a 2nd year average QB. Not to mention a video game offense that could only score 8 points. The defense kept them in that game...the offense exposed for being a one trick pony

and the only sour taste in Miller's mouth is from cheetos and frozen white castles

Months from the kickoff of the 2014 season, people are already choosing their sides.... but, here's my take... there are 31 other teams with a shot week 1, and it narrows down every week... They look 'sexy' on paper,but then, REALITY sets in..... My prediction is they will have a good competitive season, but other teams have great Coaches and players too, and can break down film, and scouting reports also..... I say, they come up just short... again. Do not invest yourself emotionally in these games, just enjoy them as a good, loyal fan. Remember, Peyton got $20 Million per season to play here... did he break you off a piece of his good fortune in 2012? Or 2013? or 2014? (don't answer) Did you even get a free medium Pizza, or a free coke? At the end of the day, you'll be emotionally drained, and he will still be filthy rich..,and 'crying' all the way to the Bank, in the back of the BRINKS truck.

Did Peyton get more than market value when you consider the price of Tom Brady, Drew Brees, Aaron Rodgers. Think about all the QB failures of Matt Schaub at Houston and now moving on to the Raiders who have now sent their QB to Seattle to back up everyone's favorite Smurph. How about Vince Young, Michael Vick, Geno Smith or that other first round pick, tim tebow. What about guys like Philip Rivers, Jay Cutler, Matt Ryan, Joe Flacco, Eli Manning and even guys like Tony Romo and Alex Smith.

Buying pizza you like at a price you think is fair is easy. Getting the best QB in the history of the NFL for fair value is genius. Thank you John Elway and most of all thank you Peyton Manning.

Mr. Manning is really and truly blessed to have someone like yourself, who will willingly lay down his hard-earned money for such a sub-standard product, and ask for little or nothing in return. God bless you, Sir.......