Ok without really spoiling it for me, how were things on the villains side of things in the movie? You said that all the good guys were solid performances but how did the villains in the movie do compared to the "Mandarin" and Malekith? Just say whether they were better or not without mentioning names and details thanks.

Since this is basically a conspiracy movie, the villains aren't as... let's say centralized as the other phase 2 films. Like I said, I had some problems with how the Winter Soldier was handled, but I would certainly put him above Malekith, and he has some great emotional beats handled perfectly by Sebastian Stan. But what's great about this movie is that the true villainy of the story goes beyond a singular person, and is ultimately about Steve weaving through these moral canyons to come out on the other side.

In terms of just ranking them, I would put "The Mandarin" > The Winter Soldier >>> Malekith. I have a huge soft spot for the actor who played "The Mandarin" (is all this a spoiler still?) and love what they did with his character and how he evolved at the end.

Since this is basically a conspiracy movie, the villains aren't as... let's say centralized as the other phase 2 films. Like I said, I had some problems with how the Winter Soldier was handled, but I would certainly put him above Malekith, and he has some great emotional beats handled perfectly by Sebastian Stan. But what's great about this movie is that the true villainy of the story goes beyond a singular person, and is ultimately about Steve weaving through these moral canyons to come out on the other side.

In terms of just ranking them, I would put "The Mandarin" > The Winter Soldier >>> Malekith. I have a huge soft spot for the actor who played "The Mandarin" (is all this a spoiler still?) and love what they did with his character and how he evolved at the end.

Ah ok. I figured from the trailer and Ed Brubaker's run(which this and possibly future movies are likely going to take cues from) that the true villains are not really just one person.

Another question I like to ask all of you who've seen it, and are comic-savvy is how much does it honor Brubaker's run? I know he gave the film two thumbs up and was happy with the whole thing. Is this the same with everyone else?

Very similar thing happened to me in Raleigh. After they had let in everyone who had Marvel Unlimited logos on their tickets, they told us that probably only about 10% of the people with 'ordinary' tickets would get in. Those of us in the 90% just had to take the free tickets for opening weekend or go home. As I live about 2 hours from Raleigh and could't make the trip again, I just had to go home.
Overbooking by 10% or so to guarantee no empty seats I can see. I've got no problem with that. But overbooking so much that you turn away 150-200+ people-people who had no idea that there were 'special' tickets that got you first seating priority? I've got some issues with that.

I would say yes, it's a false rumor. I mean maybe--MAYBE--I missed that name in a string of other names that quickly flew by at one point, but in no way was that person actually a character in the movie.

Very similar thing happened to me in Raleigh. After they had let in everyone who had Marvel Unlimited logos on their tickets, they told us that probably only about 10% of the people with 'ordinary' tickets would get in. Those of us in the 90% just had to take the free tickets for opening weekend or go home. As I live about 2 hours from Raleigh and could't make the trip again, I just had to go home.
Overbooking by 10% or so to guarantee no empty seats I can see. I've got no problem with that. But overbooking so much that you turn away 150-200+ people-people who had no idea that there were 'special' tickets that got you first seating priority? I've got some issues with that.

That is horrible, honestly. Is this the first time you tried to get into an advanced screening? I wonder if these were the same problems with The Avengers.

__________________"Joss Whedon, Shane Black, Edgar Wright, James Gunn [and Ryan Coogler]… For as much flack as people give Marvel that's a pretty freaking great group of filmmakers. Kind of feel spoiled."

Very similar thing happened to me in Raleigh. After they had let in everyone who had Marvel Unlimited logos on their tickets, they told us that probably only about 10% of the people with 'ordinary' tickets would get in. Those of us in the 90% just had to take the free tickets for opening weekend or go home. As I live about 2 hours from Raleigh and could't make the trip again, I just had to go home.
Overbooking by 10% or so to guarantee no empty seats I can see. I've got no problem with that. But overbooking so much that you turn away 150-200+ people-people who had no idea that there were 'special' tickets that got you first seating priority? I've got some issues with that.

You were at the Raleigh premiere? So was I! I was at the beginning of line C and I showed up 2.5 hours early.

That sucks though, dude. I'm sorry. The lines were crazy long and I couldn't believe they weren't turning people away earlier.

Since this is basically a conspiracy movie, the villains aren't as... let's say centralized as the other phase 2 films. Like I said, I had some problems with how the Winter Soldier was handled, but I would certainly put him above Malekith, and he has some great emotional beats handled perfectly by Sebastian Stan. But what's great about this movie is that the true villainy of the story goes beyond a singular person, and is ultimately about Steve weaving through these moral canyons to come out on the other side.

In terms of just ranking them, I would put "The Mandarin" > The Winter Soldier >>> Malekith. I have a huge soft spot for the actor who played "The Mandarin" (is all this a spoiler still?) and love what they did with his character and how he evolved at the end.

If you don't mind asking, and certainly don't mind answering, how did you expect the Winter Soldier to be handled, and why didn't the movie meet those expectations?

__________________"Not without you partner, the world needs Bucky too."
-Cap to Bucky

If you don't mind asking, and certainly don't mind answering, how did you expect the Winter Soldier to be handled, and why didn't the movie meet those expectations?

Spoiler!!! Click to Read!:

Basically the film is about Steve Rogers uncovering a certain conspiracy, and while the Winter Soldier is apart of that conspiracy, he is somewhat inconsequential to how it is played out. He is used certainly as a highly valued asset for the scheming, but his role is more henchman than villain.

Don't get me wrong, it is handled extremely well, but Steve's journey through the film is very much tied to who he is with SHIELD and what the costs are for freedom. His emotional connection to Bucky is emotional and draws interesting parallels to who they were during the 40's, but I don't think enough attention was given to who Bucky has become and how it specifically effects Cap as their journeys culminate in the climax of the movie.

I'm not saying that it's handled poorly or even averagely. It's in fact very good, but the emotional catharsis at the end could have been that much better had they found a way to incorporate the Winter Soldier more into the conspiracy angle, but it may have taken away from the SHIELD business which I loved. Some may definitely be affected differently by it than I was, it's probably just a matter of taste.

Basically the film is about Steve Rogers uncovering a certain conspiracy, and while the Winter Soldier is apart of that conspiracy, he is somewhat inconsequential to how it is played out. He is used certainly as a highly valued asset for the scheming, but his role is more henchman than villain.

Don't get me wrong, it is handled extremely well, but Steve's journey through the film is very much tied to who he is with SHIELD and what the costs are for freedom. His emotional connection to Bucky is emotional and draws interesting parallels to who they were during the 40's, but I don't think enough attention was given to who Bucky has become and how it specifically effects Cap as their journeys culminate in the climax of the movie.

I'm not saying that it's handled poorly or even averagely. It's in fact very good, but the emotional catharsis at the end could have been that much better had they found a way to incorporate the Winter Soldier more into the conspiracy angle, but it may have taken away from the SHIELD business which I loved. Some may definitely be affected differently by it than I was, it's probably just a matter of taste.

Spoiler!!! Click to Read!:

But that's all WS was in the comics...a henchman...a tool...thawed out whenever they needed him to commit some sin

Very similar thing happened to me in Raleigh. After they had let in everyone who had Marvel Unlimited logos on their tickets, they told us that probably only about 10% of the people with 'ordinary' tickets would get in. Those of us in the 90% just had to take the free tickets for opening weekend or go home. As I live about 2 hours from Raleigh and could't make the trip again, I just had to go home.
Overbooking by 10% or so to guarantee no empty seats I can see. I've got no problem with that. But overbooking so much that you turn away 150-200+ people-people who had no idea that there were 'special' tickets that got you first seating priority? I've got some issues with that.

That's terrible, I'm sorry .

Luckily at the DC screening the theater was very organized and from what I could tell they did their absolute best to get everyone in line a seat. The ushers were constantly scanning the theater looking for empty seats and getting people to move over and opening up more seats together for other groups. They actually showed the movie in two different theaters, not just one room, and idk if they might have done that so they could fit more people or if that was the plan all along.
I was there 4 hours early so I managed to get right near the front of the line. That was a long, uncomfortable wait but it was worth it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crimson King

I loved Stan as TWS. To me, he was pulled right off the pages. The scene with him and Rogers at the end is even better than the standoff they had in the comics. Stan played a great villain, IMO.

I thought the same thing! I mentioned somewhere else that I was tentatively hoping that their final scene would be as great as the comic one and it actually surpassed it.

And although I might have liked the movie to have addressed the WS' back story a bit more, I'm still satisfied with what we got. They got the point across and I'm sure that anyone watching this who doesn't know the whole story will understand Bucky's psyche, at least (thanks to one scene in particular that broke my heart to pieces). I mean if this had been Bucky's last movie it'd be disappointing... but it's not his last appearance at all, and considering that final scene where Natasha gave Steve the file on Bucky it's very likely they delve more into that back story in Cap 3.

I think I've written this somewhere before, but you and I have like the exact same rankings. Though I don't really like numeric/star ratings (even though I vote on the polls ), those seem like what I'd say if I had to, looking back on them now.

And damn, that really sucks about the people who didn't get in - kinda glad I didn't try getting tickets on the 14th for NYC now, haha