Recent studies of more than 11,000 people revealed that one in six marriages are now between people who met through an online dating site — more than twice the number of people meeting at bars, at clubs and other social events combined

Additionally, the studies show that one in five new committed relationships, including marriages, are between people who met on an online dating site.

Divorce lawyers claim the explosion in the popularity of websites such as Facebook and Bebo is tempting to people to cheat on their partners.

Suspicious spouses have also used the websites to find evidence of flirting and even affairs, which have led to divorce.

One law firm, which specialises in divorce, claimed almost one in five petitions they processed cited Facebook.

Digital technology and the Internet have created a parallel form of life. We could call it Cyberlife.

Cyberlife is built on information—which may be enlightening, misleading, authentic or fabricated. Words on a screen may be true, false, or subject to interpretation. Images and videos may depict actual occurrences—or they may be staged, cropped, edited or Photoshopped.

In Cyberlife, information available instantaneously. Information that was once inaccessible may now be found. And information—whether correct or inaccurate—lives forever in digital caches, located wherever Google and other archives keep it.

Online exploitation

So what does all of this mean when it comes to sociopaths?

Sociopaths live by exploiting people. The Internet and other tools of digital technology give sociopaths another avenue for exploiting people. And it’s a powerful one.

For sociopaths looking to exploit individuals in romantic relationships, the Internet and online dating sites allows them to fish in a very big pond. They can troll for victims 24/7, around the world. They can bait their hooks with fictitious profiles. They can work multiple targets at once, to see who actually bites.

Helpful information

Yes, the digital age gives sociopaths a lot of tools—but it also provides tools to the rest of us.

Lovefraud is proof of that. Lovefraud provides information about this personality disorder, enabling people stuck in the fog of manipulation and confusion to finally understand what they are dealing with.

Besides general information about sociopaths, the Internet allows people to acquire specific information on people they meet. Websites like DontDateHimGirl.com, Womansavers.com and Ripoffreport.com allow readers to post names of people to be avoided. Exposure works—many people have been saved from predatory relationships by finding the case studies on Lovefraud.

Seduction in the mind

One of the fascinating things about Cyberlife is that it brings into sharp focus how much of our lives take place in our own minds.

Lovefraud has heard of several cases in which people were involved online relationships, to the point of severe emotional trauma, with people who didn’t even exist! Some sociopaths play this cruel game. The sociopaths don’t get money, or sex, or a place to live. But they send flowery, romantic texts and emails, promising future happiness that will never happen. They manipulate their victims, just for fun and entertainment.

These situations are extreme, but every relationship that starts online starts in the mind. All you have is digital information. You don’t see a person across a room and feel a twinge of animal magnetism. You don’t fall in love with the sound of their laugh. So what happens?

As the Internet Threat page on Lovefraud.com explains, 65% to 90% of human communication comes from nonverbal cues. When communicating online, therefore, 65% to 90% of the meaning is missing.

What do we do when reading email and text messages in communications with a potential romantic partner? We indulge in our hopes and dreams. We fill in the blanks with what we want the communication to mean. We fall in love with our own fantasy.

Yes, our minds can trick us. Awareness, however, is also in our minds. We can educate ourselves that these predators exist. We can learn the warning signs of exploitative behavior. We can read about the experiences of others. All of this can be done online—that’s what Lovefraud does every day. As we say here on Lovefraud, knowledge equals power.

The conduit

In the end, therefore, the information revolution, the Internet, digital technology—it’s all just a conduit, and the conduit can be used for information that is either helpful or hurtful.

But we do need to understand what happens in Cyberlife, and how messages on the conduit can be manipulated. Digital technology is a tool. How the tool is used makes the difference.

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Comment on this article

Even people who “meet” in real life, but live at a considerable distance from each other and thus maintain a “relationship” over the internet do the same thing, I think…build up this fantasy relationship, and even though they may meet from time to time for a couple of days or a week or so, their “real relationship” is still on line.

To me, the not getting to know someone, their environment, their friends, family and coworkers; and instead, coming up with a “fantasy life” to fill in this blank is just as dangerous as if you had met them on line to start with.

Not only is meeting on line dangerous, even if you met someone in person first, maintaining a long distance relationship by e mail and telephone is not the same as an up close and personal relationship. Too many spots for our minds to “fill in the blanks”—the “answers our minds WANT the blanks to be filled with.”

Great article, Donna!

October 26, 2010 7:57 am

jake b

The Internet is a wealth of information. Sites like Lovefraud are invaluable, actually I find Lovefraud the most valuable. Especially understanding sociopaths and why they do what they do…..and only up until recently coming out of a 3 and a half year relationship with a sociopath, do I now know what I was dealing with……thank God for people like Donna and her website and the decent people and bloggers that contribute to it….it’s been a God send and if it wasn’t for Lovefraud, I don’t know where I would have ended up.

But also on the other hand, the Internet is also an avenue for sociopaths to find their next victim. I haven’t posted on here for a while, but there is another episode in my life I care not to remember. I carry the shame and guilt of being so gullible. But just to enlighten others how adaptable and the scope these predators can be, and making me look like an total idiot in the meantime, I want to tell you another type of predator that’s just as happy to destroy you and get their supply in the comfort of their own home.

I don’t write as eloquently as some people on here, I’m just your average Aussie guy, so bear with me as I attempt to string some words together….

Anyway..a few years back prior to my 3 and a half year relationship with a sociopath, I began talking to a 27 yr old girl called Mickey in California via a chat room out of the blue. I live in Australia. This “cyber relationship” lasted close to 4 years.

We had never met but we became very close indeed. It all started out innocently enough but then started hearing stories from her (Mickey) that were absolutely shocking. As the stories unfolded, I quickly found out that she was in a violent relationship with her husband, an LA policeman. He was always under the radar from authorities, and I was told he knew how the system worked.

So over the next 4 years approximately I was told harrowing story after harrowing story of human misery and existence. These elaborate stories got worse and worse over a course of nearly 4 years. I began to ask myself, how the hell do I help someone so far away? How do I help this young American girl?…we’re supposed to be allies aren’t we?…lol…but seriously, the depression, the anxiety, the total despair I carried with me in every part of my life. I couldn’t function knowing this was happening to a person so innocent as this, and to no fault of her own…and I hate to say it, I fell in love with someone I’ve never met before. And the thought of being so far away not being able to help, was excruciating.. Ok some people reading this will think I’m a total fool or boofhead (Aussie for dope)…..oh well u get that!…How the hell do you fall in love with someone that you’ve never met?…how the hell do you fall for stories from someone that you know nothing about? But this was a gradual thing that evolved over the years…and let me tell you, falling in love with a person you have never met is very easy indeed….as the above post implies, it’s all in the mind which fill in the gaps.

May I just make an observation. Even though this relationship is termed a “cyber relationship”…the emotions are very much real. It’s the same as if you experiencing this in reality. Actually the mind can do a number on you!

Anyway I started to wonder how something so innocent as talking to a girl in a chat room, would turn out to be a living nightmare. I thought the pain I was dealing with, compared to Mickeys far outweighed mine, so I hung in there determined to not to abandon this girl for anything…she needs me, even at the cost of my own mental state…I thought to myself, I’ll will never give up on this girl period!…this is the right thing to do, damn the emotional cost…

There is so much more to this story but I’ll cut it short. Eventually after a couple of years Mickey escaped from her abusive relationship with her husband, and found a safe place with an elderly lady called Sally a few hundred miles north of LA. Sally was 65 years old. So I thought safe at last. I thought this was the last of all the misery and now was a time for her to heal. But I was wrong. Because of the years of abuse Mickey had sustained eventually leading to many hospital stays, she had medical complications. By now I often spoke to Mickey by phone, and understandably was a very timid, shy, broken girl indeed. I also spoke to Sally, the little old lady that gave her a place to stay. Sally knew of Mickey’s past and reassured me that now Mickey was in good hands. Mickey is now in a safe place and I was so relieved. Sally was a tough extroverted lady and she reassured she’d take care of Mickey. So I often spoke to Sally on the phone regarding Mickey over the years….I often spoke to Sally first to ask how Mickey was doing, then she would hand the phone to Mickey so I could chat to my baby……both very different people indeed.

Mickey often told me about her kidney problems due to the trauma she sustained over the years of abuse (I know most people don’t die of kidney problems but I was far too gone mentally at that stage)..But in the end, the abuse on Mickey took it’s toll. One morning unexpectedly I received an email from Sally and was told Mickey had suddenly died overnight due to kidney complications….I couldn’t believe what I was reading….my life then fell to pieces.

By this time my existence became a blur….I had lost touch with reality….I wanted my life to end as I couldn’t cope anymore…..I remember sitting in front of my computer screen with the opened email, tears streaming down my face unable to focus anymore,…I didn’t know what to think anymore. I wasn’t functioning at all…all I knew that it will never be the same again.

I mostly kept all these stories and my relationship with Mickey to myself, until one day I confided in a friend. Things didn’t ring true with him when I told him about certain events. I even told him how insensitive as not to believe what I was telling him regarding Mickey’s circumstances. She was my girl, and no one was ever going to question the truth or her intentions towards me. My mate pushed and pushed for me to phone the police as far as substantiating the death of Mickey. So I phoned the county police in the US, and they replied they really couldn’t do much about it. I was determined, I needed to know the true and the circumstances regarding Mickey’s death. So a couple of days later I phoned them again, and rightly or wrongly, I told them I believed foul play was involved and believed Sally had done Mickey in. I really didn’t believe it, but at least they would investigate the death of Mickey and I could then have some closure.

A few days later I get an email from the police in California, and I was in shock….I could not believe what I was reading. My girl has died and they’re telling me what?…surely I’m not reading right….the police officer in his email told me this…”as a result of our investigations, we believe Mickey and Sally are the same person, no one has died, Mickey doesn’t exist, she never had, there is no such person”…………………So I’m distraught by the death of my girl that never existed?….4 years of misery for nothing?….so distraught by a fabrication of my mind?…..wanting to suicide cause I couldn’t cope anymore?…..the last 4 years was one big fat lie and scam???……..

So even though I had never suffered physically or directly from the hands of this person, and never scammed for money and only the stuff I decided to send her she received (another subtle scam), but the emotional damage is real, so very real…..not unlike my last relationship in real life with a sociopath….and in my innocent early days of not knowing the existence of these type of people, I often asked myself why would someone take great pleasure and effort to deceive someone?…..not just one lie, but 4 years worth…..and then I found this site….

I leave it you to sum up to what I was dealing with…as I mentioned before, there’s another type of predator that’s just as happy to destroy you and get their supply in the comfort of their own arm chair…..they’re out there…..in the real world and in cyberspace….

October 27, 2010 12:57 am

super chic

jake b, I think you write very well!! This story sounds somewhat similar to what happened to another poster on this website. I am sorry you went through all this with the “cyber” girl and the P you were involved with at home. There is so much to learn about how crazy these people are. Thank you for sharing your story and helping others. I am very wary of meeting people over the internet after what I’ve learned here at LF!!

October 27, 2010 1:31 am

skylar

jake,
you said, “We fill in the blanks…”
perfectly worded. It explains exactly how sociopaths control us. Human beings naturally make assumptions about what is being communicated or presented, based on what we are familiar with, AND WHAT WE WANT TO BELIEVE. They know we will fill in the blanks. It is happening all around us ALL the time; in the media, in government, in the organizations and authorities we trust. It’s happening because we don’t want to believe that there is so much evil in the world. Even for those of us who have experienced it, we will still hesitate to paint so many people with the same brush, EVEN WHEN WE SEE THE RED FLAGS. It’s too frightening. I hope that, rather than be frightened, we will all learn to see these behaviors for what they are: childish. immature. patterns. time to stop feeding the parasites.
So sorry for the trauma inflicted on you.

October 27, 2010 1:44 am

Ox Drover

Dear Jake,

I am reading a novel right now called the “Night listener” and it is about a situation VERY much like you described. Also, there are many reports of just such a situation as you report—for WHAT REASON? Only God knows, and you know, I don’t think you are a dope at all….gullible, trusting, caring…yep, a dope? NO!!!

There are others here who have had similar cyber relationships that were just as phony…so don’t feel so stoooopid. Chit happens!

Glad to have you aboard, we need more guys here so this is not such a hen party! Glad you are free from the relationships with the psychopaths. Sometimes there is NO way I think we can even begin to comprehend The WHY or the WHAT THE FRACK DO THEY GET OUT OF SUCH GAMES? Is that the drama they need to breathe? Just doesn’t make sense to most normal people. But then rape doesn’t make sense to most people either? Who would want sex with someone they had to FORCE? Well, there are people that that is what turns them on…but not normal folks. Same with the scam you described. WHAT did that person get out of it all? I wish I honestly knew, maybe it would help me to comprehend it more…but sometimes just saying “control” or “drama” doesn’t quite describe it.

Thanks for your story, and you do write very well!

October 27, 2010 1:45 am

silvermoon

I had the chance to see the baiting and grooming that is done. It was professional. I was impressed by the way hemanaged so many online relationships so deftly.

And how women respnded so much the same to each invitation to take a step closer and closer. There must have been about 30 of them when he was arrested.

And, my guess is most of them stayed on for a good while after that. Who knows ( or cares) how many there are now.

But after that insightful experience, I won’t ever do it again. Ever.

How could you know?
Email? Not unless there is a flesh and bones relationship first.
Period.

Now matter how they execute, the damage is devastating.
And it lasts for a long time after it turns you inside out.

It affects the healthy relationships in your life and even after you realize what happened to you, nothing is ever the same.

I believe we can all relate to the betrayal. the story however different is the same. And always stunning in the examples of deceit. Now matter how its done, we know what its like to feel the moment of realization.

Me, I hope I never forget that and that it serves to light the red flags. And I hope I never remember what it was that caused me to believe in the first place.

Jake. I’m sorry for your experience and how you were robbed. I know it takes some real getting over. AS I read your story, the catharsis of the healing for having told it is almost tangible.

Hold onto that it is a chapter in the story of you. And that in time, it will be a much less key chapter in the story of who you are, who you were and what you will become.

Thank you so much for sharing your experience. Know that you are not alone. I have heard stories much like yours several times – it is exactly what I was referring to.

I think we believe them because we can’t imagine that someone would make up such disturbing stories. And we don’t know that there are people who delight in telling such fabrications – just to see if they can get over on people.

I am so sorry for your experience – but I’m sure that writing about it here on Lovefraud is enlightening to many people. Thank you for your contribution.

October 27, 2010 9:24 am

Psyche

Jake,
I had one like this in high school. For one year my ‘best friend’ was delivering letters to me from a guy I believed existed. I got gifts, photos, everything but a chance to meet the real guy.

Along with that, stories of the tragedy in his life – how his sister was killed in a car crash the week before we were supposed to meet for the first time. The cancer he got suddenly, and then the twisted lie that ‘he’ told me via a letter – that my ‘best friend’ (the one who had been delivering all of ‘his’ letters to me) actually had cancer. The list goes on.

It got more and more disturbing, until one day I found out the truth. You guessed it – my ‘best friend’ was the one behind all the letters that this make-believe/ficitious guy sent. Of course, my best friend played victim, went around telling horrible stories about me to everyone, and, even better, my mother offered to help my best friend because of all the problems I was causing. It was so sick.

You don’t need the details, but I should probably mention that I do suspect that this ‘best friend’ was doing more than messing with my head for fun. This person wanted me to stick around so badly, so that she wouldn’t be left alone (plus she was gay, and had her own interest in me), that she made all of this up. She knew she hooked me with tales of trauma after trauma, which create a kind of bond, if you possess a soul that cares and believes. I can’t explain her behavior any more than that, I just know why I was vulnerable to it, which helps in retrospect, but what a nightmare.

Sorry you had a live one too (mine was in California, as well!). I do know how it is to believe the unbelievable, and how it can feel when others discover just how many outrageous lies you believed.

Take care,
Psyche

October 27, 2010 11:23 am

behind_blue_eyes

Oxdrover;

As usual, a very wise observation. I see now how my long-distance relationship with the x-spath played into his hands.

First, he was far “warmer” via text, email and phone then in person. For example, on the phone his british charm was quite effective. And lying is far easier when not done face-to-face. More important, distance allowed him time to play his game, most of that being an online game.

I am not an online dating type person. From my past expriences, I get too nervous and for every good experience I have had two bad ones.

However, for some, within certain guidelines, online dating is a viable option. Those guidelines include nothing long distance, no build-up — meet asap, no expectations, no online flirting, avoid “too good to be true” red flags, those with activity profiles more than a couple years old.

October 27, 2010 2:30 pm

bluejay

jake b,

You are a caring, decent human being. I grew up in a home where I got the message that you stick it out with anyone to the end (even at the cost of you own mental well-being). Today, I don’t think that way anymore. I am sorry that people will play these sick games – glad you found out the truth, being free of this warped woman.

October 27, 2010 4:34 pm

jake b

To everyone that replied to my post, thank you and I truly do appreciate your acknowledgment. This is really a wonderful place considering the circumstances we are all here, and what a decent bunch of people you are.

As I’m usually in the background reading the posts most days (I know most people here by reading their blogs), it’s nice to come out of the ‘wood work” and contribute at least something. The depth and substance of all the people here gives me hope in such a superficial world.

Thank you Donna for the reply, and I’m glad I hit the mark regarding the topic. Hopefully my 2 cents worth will help someone out there, or at least to let them know they’re not alone being scammed by a ‘cyber relationship’.

To OxDrover, thank you for your words of support and thank you for telling me about the book that you are reading the “Night Listener”. I downloaded the movie off the net and yes it’s a very similar story to mine indeed, I saw many parallels with my own experience. I don’t know how similar the book is to the movie, But in the second half of the movie, Donna the carer kills off Peter the young boy. I relate this to my own experience. Sally killed off Mickey, so she could shift the relationship back onto her. For far too long Mickey had “star billing” and it was her time now in the spotlight…and I guess Mickey’s character was the bait to hook me in and keep my there as long as possible……oh I just had a thought that came to mind regarding all this….Sally would often say to me..”not much usually happens around here, but it’s all happening now”…..at the cost of someones sanity and maybe filled a void, I guess it kept her busy…she preyed on people’s empathy but had none to give in return.

I don’t know if i was dealing with a sociopathic personality, but it sure the hell was destructive at the expense of others……many thanks to everyone.

October 27, 2010 10:37 pm

jeannie812

I met Jim on the internet.

Yet, I can’t blame the internet for us meeting. He only lives a mile away. I saw him many times in the community before he approached me on internet dating site.

I blew him off many times in email. Yet he continued his pursuit through email. This should have told me something. I wasn’t offering anything interesting why is he hanging on?

Well I know now!

He wanted a cash cow.

He didn’t give a hoot if we had nothing in common. As long as he got sex in addition to money here and there.

I can’t blame the internet. I blame myself.

Jim showed me his best side the first weekend. He spent all day and into late night with me. While he bummed cigarettes off me.

The show was over that weekend. He then blew me off on weekends sending me chasing after him. I spent the next five years wondering why this man is blowing me off on weekends and giving me lame excuses.

He always gave a perfectly logical explanation after the fact. But, he was always vague to create the misunderstandings. It was enough to keep me hanging all those years.

Add in that when I refused to answer his phone calls, he would storm over to my house to barge in my door to scream at me. I felt helpless in my own home.

I finally got rid of him when I said I would call the police. I said get off my property or I will call the police. I had to repeat it 3x cause he kept yelling.

I can’t tell you the courage it took for me to say those words. I felt like a wet noodle afterwards.

But, the internet is not to blame. I saw the warning signs and I ignored them. I tried to make sense out of nonsense. I “TRIED TO GET ALONG” when you can’t get along with an opportunist. I thought I would be “labeled” as the problem house if I involved the police. And, I even made the mistake of telling him about my son’s dad who called the police on me turning my house into the problem house. Jim took advantage of my fears.

Then I found that all it took was the threat that I would call the police to get him off my ass.

How easy was that!

I could have saved myself 5 years of grief!

October 27, 2010 11:02 pm

jeannie812

I will never again put up with anyone who makes me feel bad about myself. I will distance myself from that person.

I know how to walk away, I always have walked away from bad relationships.

Whether the relationship be a female friend or a boyfriend.

I will make a point to get out quickly. As I did when I saw that guy John who nick-picked at me, and he disliked everything about me while he pressured me for sex. I called it off with him before it passed “GO”

Gosh, why didn’t I learn this a decade ago? Why is it now that I am almost 50 that I finally learn? My life could be over tonight. (my grandmother died at age 50)

October 27, 2010 11:15 pm

Ox Drover

Dear Jake,

I really am enjoying the book, had to put it down as have had company and other obligations for the past 36 hours but am going to go to bed and read some more for a while. Sometimes fiction is more “true” than real life! I only happened to see a small portion of the movie as I was channel surfing and saw Robin Williams and watched a bit of it then looked up the book, ordered it and presto!

It is difficult to believe something like this could actually take place, but everyone here has been HOODWINKED as bad or worse by a psychopath (or two or three) and as Jeannie says HOW EASY WAS THAT? It really is easy to get rid of them NO CONTACT (unless you have a kid with them or they stalk you) but we have to be STRONG in ourselves, and VALIDATE our own REALITY as many times as it takes.

I had to run because they were “after me” literally, but I almost didn’t have the courage to RUN because I kept thinking how cowardly it was to not defend my home…I was in the right, right? But I did finally figure out it is better to retreat in an ordered way than to end up like CUSTER! There are just some things and some places you can’t defend no matter how hard you fight!

Finally having the courage to retreat and live to fight another day—HOW EASY WAS THAT? Of course it wasn’t easy, but I am stronger than I though tI was—I DID WHAT I HAD TO DO TO SURVIVE—and that’s what each of us must find the courage to do. Whether it is stand and fight if that’s the best option, or to retreat and change direction (thank you Chairman Mao!)

I got an e mail tonight from son C that he thought he spotted the Trojan Horse P driving in the nearest town to me—wasn’t 100% sure, but COULD be–and he could be going up to see my X DIL as he is off parole now, and his only source of income is an SSI disability check of $550 a month—and it takes THAT MUCH to live as a HOMELESS PERSON ON THE STREET—and I know he is NOT going to work, and she is working last I heard as at a Micky D’s and a person can hardly keep a roof, food, transportation etc. on minimum wage or less—so wouldn’t surprise me if they hooked up again. I DOUBT that he has the balls to show up here, but if he does it will be a fire fight and I think he knows that. He might like revenge but he’s not hell bent on it like my P-son.

CAUTION, but NOT terror!

Since I quit communicating with my P-son, one of his buddies that I have pen-palled with for years (who BTW IS BEING REPRESENTED BY THE HOUSTON INNOCENCE PROJECT) and who probably didn’t do the crime he is in for (murder) I have been still writing to him. He had written me telling me that inmate X (one I know of but haven’t met) was asking about my personal information (a good excuse for “Joe” to contact me) but said he didn’t give any to the guy—but I know this guy is a VERY close pal to P son (who did save this inmate’s life several years ago so the creep owes P-son a lot) anyway, I’ve been corresponding with “Joe” off and on, but sending DIS-INFORMATION to him about my activities, whereabouts, health, etc. I really couldn’t tell if he was passing this information on to son P but I figured if I sent DIS-information to him and he was NOT passing it on, no loss, but if he was communicating DIS-information to P son it might do some good.

I got a long letter from him yesterday that makes me think he IS A SPY. He has started “mirroring” me—I have kept my letters full of my FAITH in God and so on. So now “Joe” has developed this “faith” in God and has all these big plans how he is going to save all the kids in the world when he gets out as soon as the DNA comes back showing he did not do the crime.

He is quite bright really, vocabulary pretty good, writing well, thought process seems adequate, high average intelligence I think, and he’s taking college classes in prison.
‘
This last letter though was sooooo “sweet” and so “kind” and so “full of faith in God” that there had to be a “reason” he was in prison and so on…almost felt like a LOVE BOMB from the P-son. LOL So I think my P-dar is working pretty well.

With the parole “hearing” coming up in January (all papers are into the parole board now from his attorney that I think egg donor hired for him, and my attorney has submitted papers, so I imagine that “Joe” is wanting to know what I’m up to. Where I am and so on.

Time to go on another “trip” I think—I get picture postcards from my friends in distant cities, and then I write on them, and then mail them back to my friends to get my friends to mail them (post marked) from the far flung cities all over the US.

Hi Jeannie,
Yeah, the internet isn’t always to blame….it’s always a crap shoot whether or not you meet online or another way. I didn’t meet my ex-soc online and he was horrid. The next guy I dated I did meet on the internet. He was prince charming too good to be true…except I jumped the gun and didn’t ask enough questions before I became involved. Had I known he is 40 still living at home with parents, I would not have given my heart away. It obviously didn’t work…but at least he wasn’t a sociopath. . .just an immature jerk.

October 27, 2010 11:30 pm

super chic

jeannie812, I feel the same way you do, why did it take me so long to figure things out? I saw Jane Fonda on Oprah today, and Ali McGraw was on the show a couple of weeks ago… and both of them said the same thing… they didn’t figure life out until they were in their 60’s, they had been unhappy, they weren’t “whole”… etc. Jane even said today that she “gave” herself to men… so I figure we’re lucky we’re on the road to recovery now instead of later!

October 27, 2010 11:48 pm

jeannie812

Yes, Iwonder,

My horrid love life began in high school, or at work. The only guy I met in a bar was my ex-boyfriend who still looks after me from time to time.

Yes, it wasn’t where I met them. It was me. I didn’t notice the bad signs.

October 27, 2010 11:56 pm

jeannie812

Shabbychic

I saw those Oprah episodes.

Isn’t it refreshing when these stars show us they are like us? I don’t wanna go when it’s a fake show. I wanna believe they are sincere.

Ryan o’neil and Ali McGraw seemed so cute on that show. And, he did make a point of telling her that he is lonely!

October 28, 2010 12:07 am

jeannie812

Iwonder

I too didn’t ask the right questions up front.

But, what questions could I have asked?

In your case….who would think to ask do you live with your parents. Cause if you asked this of a man who lived alone for many years he would DELETE you. So we avoid personal questions until the right time. And if we are dealing with someone who has something to hide, they hide details and if you catch on, they duck and dodge, or silence you with their anger, and you never get a straight answer anyway.

In my case, I never thought to ask if he is looking for a cash cow.

Oh, I better clarify that in case spath lurkers are out there.

My extra ten bucks was enough to satisfy him until I got my next extra 10 bucks.

October 28, 2010 12:16 am

geminigirl

Jake b, One of our regulars, One step, was taken in by a similar evil person she calls the “Sock puppet”.
One step is a VERY smart cookie, so if SHE can be fooled and the wooll pulled over her eyes by this evil being, I think anyone could be!.
Its beyond belief to any normal empath, what do these sickos get out of their evil charades? I guess for some of them, its cash, wads of it.
Ive read similar true stories in Womens mags,women giving their life savings away to someone they believe loves them. happens to men too , of course.
My Prayers are with you as you heal and recover from this truly evil being.
Love,
mama GemXx

October 28, 2010 3:59 am

Hopeforjoy

Oxy,

Seriously, can’t they just throw in the towel and call it a day? Is there a point to harassing you? I think he’s doing it just because he can. I hope the parol board rules to keep spath in jail.

I sometimes wonder what their inner dialog is like, then I take a step back and ask myself if I really want to know. It has to be extremely sick and twisted.

Have a great “vacation” to Katmandu, Siberia, Bali, or where ever the postcards take you!

October 28, 2010 7:16 am

silvermoon

The disordered defy understanding. And the contemplation of even trying invokes the notion of going down into and endless Warren of convoluted reality.

I think I’d rather go to Katmandu.

Ox, I’ll go too!

October 28, 2010 12:28 pm

Ox Drover

DEar Hope4joy,

No, my P-son can not just quit, give up and leave me alone. In order to be “happy” he must, MUST beat me, he cannot let me “win” for goodness sakes, so he will NEVER GIVE UP. His mission in life is to “win” over me, to control me or get revenge on me.

My sperm donor hated me with a bitter venom until the day he died 40+ years after the last time I had seen him. He smeared my name to everyone who would listen, even if they didn’t know me, wouldn’t ever know me, and then he did it in writing. They are worse than a pit bull with a bone, they won’t give up.

The other psychopaths might LIKE revenge but have enough self preservation and impulse control to not come here I think because as much as they might LIKE to hurt me, they are not going to have the guts to walk into a “fire fight” which includes gunfire because they are not about to get in a fight with someone they are SURE is ARMED. Son P doesn’t have that restraint, he would walk into “machine gun fire” confident that the bullets would pass right through him.

I was told by an inmate friend of his that my P son who is a SMALL white man would belly up to a 6’6″ heavily muscled member of another race and scream a racial slur in the guy’s face, baring his teeth like a pit bull, but knowing he was going to get the carp stomped out of him and do it any way. He is like a small breed of terrier dog, totally fearless and oblivious to the size of the other dog. It may get whipped but it will never give up. My P son has had many broken wrists, shoulders, ankles and such so the punishment of getting the chit beaten out of him doesn’t deter him any apparently.

The inmate way of thinking, of being tough, and not being a pushover gets a certain kind of respect from other inmates, but in a way it is “heaven on earth” for a psychopath because they continually have the drama and the adrenaline rushes of risky behavior. As long as the drama keeps on going, they will never make any changes, and they will arrange to keep the drama going on.

October 28, 2010 1:59 pm

super chic

Oxy, just read what you wrote to jake and hope4joy,
I am praying the p-son stays incarcerated,
praying for you and your safety,
you are one strong / smart / funny lady. 😀
Love the “trips” to distant cities!
Your p-dar sounds spot on.

October 28, 2010 6:19 pm

Ox Drover

Dear Chic,

Thank you for your prayers! I think the prayers of my friends have helped me make it through the toughest of the times. I’m learning to accept WHAT IS more than just grouse about what is “not”–

There are lots of wonderfully smart, funny and strong people here at LF and though you will deny it (I bet ya!) YOU ARE ONE OF THOSE SMART, FUNNY AND STRONG PEOPLE!!!

Those of us who just keep on keeping on, even when we don’t feel all that strong and do the right thing even when we don’t feel like it. Courage is not being unafraid, it is being scared chitless and still getting up and going and doing what you have to do, and my friend, Chic, you have been doing that, and I salute you with a big TOWANDA!!!!! (((hugs))))

October 28, 2010 7:21 pm

jeannie812

Ox Drover,

Your son sounds like a scary person. I got chills reading the description of him. Horrible.

October 28, 2010 8:43 pm

Ox Drover

Dear Jeannie,

My P-son IS A SCARY PERSON. He has no conscience and lots of RAGE and no fear. Son D and I were talking about the P-son and the Trojan Horse Psychopath today and the differences between them. My other son thought he saw the TH-P in a small town near here Tuesday…it is possible he did,, but even if he did I am NOT afraid of that man, though he did try to kill son C, because the TH-P will only attack when he thinks he has a decided advantage, he is basically a coward. My P-son, however HAS NO FEAR even if he knows he is going to be beaten to a pulp, he will still jump into the fight!

When he was 18, he had some kids rob a place, actually like a home invasion, and one of the kids left identifying information at the scene of the crime and HOURS LATER P-son went back to the crime scene to retrieve the item and the people had gotten loose and were SHOOTING out the door, a bullet went through my son’s jacket sleeve as they sped away on his (stolen) motorcycle and it didn’t phase him. He is extremely smart, (exceptionally high IQ) yet he is one of the DUMBEST criminals I have ever known of, because he has NO FEAR at all.

If he got loose he would come here to hurt us even if he knew he would be coming into a nest of machine gun fire! That’s the difference between him and the TH-P. My son thinks some how the bullets would pass through is body harmlessly, or that even if he got killed in killing me, that it was still OK. ?????? That is what makes him SO SCARY is there is no way to “put the fear of God” in him.

He has got this idea, just like my P-sperm donor, that being the toughest Mofo on the block makes him somehow superior to others and that others ADMIRE him for this. Well, maybe some of the bad arse inmates “respect or admire him,” but NO ONE ELSE IN THE WORLD DOES.

His whole world is a series of lies told to others to make himself appear “a big shot”—but the only ones who would even believe a word of his lies are people just as warped and low life as he is.

It’s a shame too because this is a man who had the God given talent and smarts to invent the next cure for cancer, or put a rocket on Mars and in spite of every advantage he had from God and family, he chose to blow it all and become an unsuccessful thug and robber. Go figure.

He hates me with a passion and hates both his brothers as well but for different reasons I think. But I have NO doubt at all that if he gets out I will have to go somewhere else to live, but if I do I do, because I’m not about to let the little snot kill me and I know without a doubt that he would give it his best shot.

October 28, 2010 9:50 pm

one/joy_step_at_a_time

would she have duped me in person? no, i don’t think i would have fallen for her cons. but another spath could have conned me. online or in person, there is risk, as all our stories attest.

I would put forward that every relationship starts in our minds – online or no. And that is what we need to wok on clearing away – all those cobwebs of desire, obligation, fantasy and neediness that catch us up and obscure what is in front of us.

and we need a healthier dose of self respect. and if we didn’t have that modeled for us, we need to step up and figure it out.

October 28, 2010 10:09 pm

skylar

Oxy
Your p son’s attitude reminds me of Lucifer who would rather rule in hell than serve in heaven. In previous posts you described how he can sit in jail and still think he won.
His lack of fear is similar and at the same time the opposite of my exPs attitude. They are the same in their audacity and their certitude that they will succeed . But my exP will also plan for years and enjoy every moment of the planning. That is why they get away with their BS. Normal people can’t conceive of that mindset: The time wasted in planning evil, the drive,determination and pleasure in it . Even those that see small hints of it, cannot accept the idea that they are dealing with Lucifer.

October 28, 2010 10:14 pm

super chic

Oxy, well I don’t know how you managed
to turn that around into a compliment to me!!!!!!!!! LOL.
Thank you for the nice words.
I’m hanging in there with the rest of you,
and like you said last night…
I usually learn something new here everyday!

“Don’t just learn to function in your dysfunction”.
…from SHMS last night was really a good one.

October 28, 2010 10:46 pm

jeannie812

Oxdrover,

Do you think your ex- husband put this hate in your son? It sounds like serious hate towards everyone.

I am sorry to hear this. To think that he was your little baby at one time. The little baby you coddled and loved. And he turned into THAT.

It’s like Billy the Kid

October 28, 2010 10:48 pm

super chic

one_step, I totally agree with you that relationshits start in our own mind. I’ve had face to face relationshits in my own mind… due to the cobwebs you mentioned, I was waaaaaaaayyyy too needy and didn’t want to face the truth and/or walk away. My biggest fear was being alone, well, I’m alone now and I’m still here, so it won’t be so scary anymore!

“We gain strength, and courage, and confidence by each experience in which we really stop to look fear in the face… we must do that which we think we cannot. ” Eleanor Roosevelt

October 28, 2010 10:51 pm

jeannie812

I am confused about something, but I think I’ll bury it in the backyard.

October 28, 2010 11:25 pm

hens

onestep what you said above is so profound. I had a crush on my X bf spath for 2 years before he even took the time to say hello…. I had all these fantasies about who he was and how we would be so perfect together – wasnt until he was running out of options that he gave me the time of day – so be careful what you wish for…

October 28, 2010 11:35 pm

skylar

Oxy
To clarify, I didn’t mean that your son doesnt plot and plan like my exP. But my exP is more of a coward who never leaps before looking and who slithers away leaving everyone wondering wtf happened but never suspecting him. Your son has lots of time on his hands, I hope he never gets out. My exP will wait for another 25 years if need be, to get vengeance on me, because he didn’t succeed the first time. He will carefully place all pawns into position,one at a time slowly, over years. That is another reason why I have to continue studying and learning how they operate

October 28, 2010 11:37 pm

skylar

SC, Hens, one-step, jeannie,
Maybe that’s how we learn about ourselves thru the relationshits. We can see what we were expecting and hoping for. The spath certainly sees what is in our hearts. That’s how he knows what to aim for.

October 28, 2010 11:59 pm

silvermoon

“To say ‘I love you’ one must first be able to say the ‘I.’”

Ayn Rand

October 29, 2010 12:06 am

jeannie812

Yes, Skylar

The spath learned how to dupe us by listening to us talk. I remember wondering why isn’t he commenting? Well, because he was calculating…..

And, yes we can only bring those expectations to ourselves. I love a bouquet of fresh flowers. So I snipped myself a bouquet out of my garden. I love going to the zoo, so I went with my sister and my son.

My life is not the way I want it. But a man would just add more confusion to my compass

October 29, 2010 12:53 am

jeannie812

To Silvermoon

I’m jumping in on this one.

To say I love you they must first learn to say I.

Jim used to mumble “love you”

Not I love you.

He expected a loud “THANK YOU” if he did anything for me.

If I didn’t say “thank you” loud enough, he would loudly say “YOUR WELCOME”, just to remind me of my “rudeness”

Yet when I did things for him he didn’t say thank you. Or if he did he said “aink ou”

It would just kill him to give me the same curtisy that he expected.

October 29, 2010 1:12 am

skylar

Mine avoided kissing me because he knew how much I like kissing. My favorite part of intimacy. He would rather not get a kiss if it meant giving one. The song “ONE” by U2 seems to describe it perfectly in the lyrics “you act like you never had love and you want me to go without”

October 29, 2010 6:15 pm

hens

I love a good kisser ~! my x was a terrible kisser..been so long ..do people still kiss?

October 29, 2010 10:36 pm

Ox Drover

Dear Henry,

Of course they do and here’s you a big cyber SMACKER!!! XXXXXX

October 29, 2010 10:43 pm

hens

Back at ya twisted sister ..

October 29, 2010 11:32 pm

geminigirl

Heres a big smackeroony to you too, Hens!
And one each to the 3 wieners!!
Love, mama Gem.XX

October 30, 2010 12:34 am

hens

Aw thanks Gem back at you too..

October 30, 2010 12:43 am

one/joy_step_at_a_time

Sky – that’s the thing i knew first off – that relationship pointed very specifically to what i do want. but i don’t think i can have it, find it, or make it for myself….because it was all a story, so it makes me question my desires as being pure fantasy.

I’d like to try. some tiny bit of me would. but not yet. too messed up.

October 30, 2010 9:45 am

one/joy_step_at_a_time

hens, i am not going to kiss on you – but will wish that someday, there is decent loving man in your life who will.

October 30, 2010 9:49 am

hens

Moo .. I mean BOO…

October 30, 2010 11:30 am

one/joy_step_at_a_time

moo boo back to u hens…i am dressing up as beautiful 1950s retro punk, un spathed, tattooed, with a tall updo. and the spath won’t have enough room in my mind today to turn her ugly self around in.

October 30, 2010 11:49 am

hens

hey one that sounds like fun – no spath thots today – I am dressed up as an old white haired house painter today – brush and roller in hand – gonna finish the back of the house today if’n it kills me…happy halloweeny to ev1