(02-22-2012 02:15 PM)quavis Wrote: Uhh.. I understand about being upset about no rookies. I was also bummed. Then I looked at the auto checlist, and its not that bad. Since it is a very cheap product, I was surprised there are good chances at not getting complete scrubs. If you are only buying boxes to get big hits, good luck with that. There is Rose, Durant, Rovinson, Wall, Lin, Kobe, Paul and a ton of other great players forthe autos. Not too bad if you ask me. I have two boxes preordered. One from DA and one from Blowout. There is a release of the Hoops retail soon by the way.

No, you're right ... the reason I was originally interested in this product was because of the low price point and number of cards per box.

The hits didn't have anything to do with it ... I love the big hits as much as the next guy, but I'd rather have a nice mix of new rookies and vets in new uniforms than one or two serial numbered auto'd jersey'd whatevers out of a really expensive box, especially with the odds of pulling someone you really want.

I'll probably try a couple of blasters to see if I can pull Lin or Paul in their new uniforms, but that's about it.

I'm pretty certain a link was posted somewhere (xstream might be able to find it) where panini explained why they aren't doing rookies in their first three releases. Basically, it boils down to them not wanting to dump us with rookies in college uniforms. Due to the lockout and the limited time teams had to get everything organised before the season started (2 weeks from finalising a new agreement to the season starting) there was no time for a rookie photoshoot nor for individual team photoshoots. At least panini didn't do what the "Big 4"did back in the 1998-99 lock-out shortened season - throw a whole heap of series 1 stuff out (some with redemptions for RC's - Topps and Stadium Club) before it was even know if there would be a season. If panini waiting until a season is confirmed and going from there means there's no rookies until the very last regular season product (even then, they'll be redemptions), then I'm happy with that.

Well, I think Panini kind of shot themselves in the foot. Rookie cards don't have to be, and haven't always been, a picture of the player with a backdrop behind them. If they have pictures of Chris Paul with the Clippers, Lin with the Knicks, then I'm sure they could have gotten in game shots of the rookies as well (well, permitting that some of the actually played any games at that point). That's the ONLY thing I could think it would be right now, just that they didn't know when some of the rookies would get a chance to play some games. However, if production started two weeks after the season started (I think it started sooner, could be wrong) then they would have had time to grab SOME of the rookies. But, either way, it's not a big concern to me.

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(02-22-2012 04:36 PM)xstreaminsanity Wrote: Well, I think Panini kind of shot themselves in the foot. Rookie cards don't have to be, and haven't always been, a picture of the player with a backdrop behind them. If they have pictures of Chris Paul with the Clippers, Lin with the Knicks, then I'm sure they could have gotten in game shots of the rookies as well (well, permitting that some of the actually played any games at that point). That's the ONLY thing I could think it would be right now, just that they didn't know when some of the rookies would get a chance to play some games. However, if production started two weeks after the season started (I think it started sooner, could be wrong) then they would have had time to grab SOME of the rookies. But, either way, it's not a big concern to me.

Xtream, you're 100 percent correct ... as much as the Lin hype machine has been on overdrive and it seems like he's been around forever (just by sheer volume of coverage), he's still only been a starter for about two weeks, so I can't see how Panini couldn't have gotten photos of at least the top rookies in time dating back to two months ago — guys that they knew were going to play, like Kyrie, Kemba, etc. ...

(Though I can't tell if that Lin is airbrushed, but I don't think Panini does that — ?)

If you go on nba.com and look at their rookie ladder (way down at the bottom of the page), you can find all kinds of photos of the rookies — some in action, some on the night of the draft, and some in their new uniforms shortly after the lockout ended.

Ironically, many of them look like photo shoot shots, as they are in uniform with a white backdrop. I got so desperate for new rookie cards that I actually made some customs with those photos.

It would have been nice if Panini could have somehow struck a deal with the NBA — "hey, since you completely screwed our sales, can we borrow some of your photos?"

Maybe they tried, who knows, licensing issues are always tricky — remember 2009-10 Topps vs. 2009-10 Upper Deck? Neither had pro uniforms on the rookies, though Upper Deck had all the college logos and Topps had the head shots.

Oh well. Someone earler mentioned maybe in Panini Update? Though I didn't see it among the Big 5 releases this year ...

The NBA photshoots are different from the card company photoshoots. Essentially, everyone has to do a photo for the NBA, with card companies it comes down to organising a time for the team/players and the company photographer/s - even then, some players will say no or "I'm too busy right now, we'll do it some other time". You have to think about this from a business perspective. I agree it would be nice if everything could work the way we fan's want it to, but unfortunately we live in a real world and we often face disappointment when our dreams don't pan out.

(02-22-2012 05:11 PM)taffster74 Wrote: The NBA photshoots are different from the card company photoshoots. Essentially, everyone has to do a photo for the NBA, with card companies it comes down to organising a time for the team/players and the company photographer/s - even then, some players will say no or "I'm too busy right now, we'll do it some other time". You have to think about this from a business perspective. I agree it would be nice if everything could work the way we fan's want it to, but unfortunately we live in a real world and we often face disappointment when our dreams don't pan out.

Right.

I know the photo shoots are different, obviously ... hence me pointing out that the NBA has its own stock of photos on its rookie ladder page, independent of anything to do with trading cards.

That is exactly why, if in this case, the NBA could have acknowledged that it screwed Panini's production time/options with the lockout, they could have made a deal where Panini did not have to do its own shoot and could have "borrowed" the photos for the cards.

I work for a newspaper and we credit other sources for photos all the time ... it wouldn't be a big deal to credit Getty Images or the AP or the NBA itself in the fine print on the bottom of the back of the cards.

Again, as I said before, it's probably not that simple, and it most likely comes down to some kind of licensing issue.

Maybe they tried, who knows ... either way, it won't ruin my dreams in the real world, LOL.

Also, I have a feeling that when the rookie redemption's a released, they'll be for game-worn cards. As to the auto's.... for some reason, Panini has all signing sessions for on-card occur in their dallas offices. I suppose this is to ensure authenticity of the auto. That might also be why there's no rookies in the earlier stuff - they do the photoshoots at their dallas office and then they can guarantee that the materials are at least event-worn.

(02-22-2012 06:02 PM)taffster74 Wrote: Also, I have a feeling that when the rookie redemption's a released, they'll be for game-worn cards. As to the auto's.... for some reason, Panini has all signing sessions for on-card occur in their dallas offices. I suppose this is to ensure authenticity of the auto. That might also be why there's no rookies in the earlier stuff - they do the photoshoots at their dallas office and then they can guarantee that the materials are at least event-worn.

Even if all of that were true, it still doesn't explain why they couldn't get some low-end BASE rookie cards — WITHOUT JERSEYS OR AUTOS — into a low-end product like Hoops.

Especially using the photo-sharing concept with the NBA that I've been blabbing about for three posts now.

Unless they tried and it didn't work out — again, for what I am assuming would be licensing reasons — there really is no reason why there couldn't be regular, low-end, base rookie cards in Hoops.

The NBA has tons of stock photos of the rookies already, from draft night to team photo shoots (media press conferences, holding their jerseys up, etc.) ...

In fact, if my hypothetical alliance between the NBA and Panini could have happened, it would have actually been EASIER than usual to produce rookie cards, because all Panini would have had to do was acquire the JPGs from the NBA and credit them in small print on the back of the cards.

They wouldn't have even had to do their own photo shoot — which is irrelevant anyway because there wasn't any time to do one due to the lockout!

Again, for the third time, I'm assuming it's much easier said than done as far as just "borrowing" the photos.

If I could think of a possible reason why it didn't happen other than the one I've already thought of — licensing issues — I wouldn't be so annoyed and wouldn't have canceled my box that I had already ordered.

Other than a Jeremy Lin Knicks card and a Chris Paul Clippers card, the long odds on pulling a top guy in the autos — based on 179 cards in the checklist, with only two per box — plus NO ROOKIES, plus OUTDATED rosters, makes it not a very desirable product for me, personally.

It's just my opinion.

IF Panini had included rookie cards and/or at least updated the rosters, I would have a bought a box — ACTUALLY, I DID BUY A BOX — and looked at the autos as just a bonus for a low-end product.

This is an undeniable fact — other than a Lin Knicks card and a Paul Clippers card, most people are going to essentially be buying a 2010-11 product as far as the checklist goes, and most people are going to be disappointed with their autos.

While most people are hoping for a Lin, Griffin, Durant, Kobe or Rose auto (etc., I know there are more big names), there are just as many boxes that are going to have DeSagana Diop and Amir Johnson.

(Xtream, I know he's a former Piston, but ... )

It was my own fault for not researching the checklist before I bought the box, but luckily I caught it in time.

A perfect example of a "making chicken salad out of chicken s--t" product — like Hoops could be/should be — is 2009-10 Bowman 48 Basketball, produced by Topps.

At the time, they were losing their NBA license and didn't have a college license, so they basically dumped all of their big name autos into a very short checklist.

The base cards and the head-shot rookies weren't much to look at, but the autos — a total of 30 in the set, with three per box — more than made up for it.

I bought a total of three boxes in the last couple of months — for $98 each from my LCS — and pulled autos of Magic Johnson, Derrick Rose and Dwight Howard.

Even my "lame" autos were guys like OJ Mayo, Josh Smith and Antwan Jamison, as well as a Rick Barry black border #d out of 48.

Pretty crazy — a la, chicken salad out of chicken s--t.

Say what you want about the relative values of the Bowman autos, but I'd much rather have an "easy to pull" Rose auto than a "hard to pull" Solomon Alabi out of Hoops.

I'm not bashing Panini, by the way — I'm actually one of the few people I've seen on these boards that has had excellent experiences with the customer service department, and I've never had an issue with a redemption or a replacement card.

I'm mostly just angry about the lockout situation and the ripple effect it has had on cards, that's all.

As much as I like baseball and football, basketball is by far my favorite sport to play, watch and collect.

I will get over it, they're just cards.

Hopefully, like someone else said, maybe they'll do an Update product with all the rookies and new faces on the various teams.