So basically, his only friends being from the church is a little cultish. Some churches, even real Christian churches, tend to isolate their people into the church bubble.

This is never encouraged in the bible. Not that you should not fellowship with like minded christens. But, when the isolation begins that is where some of the cultish behavior begins.

If he new you were not a "Born again" christen he should have never dated you in the first place. Theoretically, a christen male should only look at you christen women as possible mates. Like the major said, unequally yoked.

I don't think that he should have moved if with you until you were married.

I don't know if you slept together but that is technically not allowed either.

So if he demonstrated some of these behaviors as described, the church that he is involved in is one of the churches that mainstream Christianity would consider a "Cultish" church.

That is the best way that I can describe it.

Hope that helps you understand why you do not want to be involved with this guys like this as a general rule.

"Cultish." That's pretty much the word for it. Most Christians are encouraged to actually get out into the world and interact with others in a kind manner, so as to draw others to the faith by example. It doesn't seem to happen often. The goal is to entice, rather than hammer people into the church.

No_Go, I will say this - if you ever run into TRUE Christians, you'll find them to be a fairly likeable bunch. It's just many of those who claim Christianity as their faith have the same conflicts and issues as your ex. There should have been a religion talk between the two of you a long time ago. He never was man enough to actually have the discussion. With my one exBF, thankfully, we had the important discussions and were able to end the relationship well. We're still great friends.

One other thing to note. You mentioned that most of your friends are in the scientific community, and that they are typically atheist/agnostic. I wouldn't let that drive you away from faith, if you are ever searching for a higher power. If you look at scientific evidence impartially, there's facts that point to creation or a higher power. What faith I have in my life comes from evidence, rather than upbringing or proselytizing. If you go about a search in that way, any true scientist should at least respect your methods/motives, even if he/she disagrees with your conclusions.

MM, when I'm not closed to faith. I just made an observation that it is kind of uncommon in science communities (I know a lot of exceptions to this rule as well), there are many Dawkins-type atheists. I've never been an atheist myself. I said agnostic because I think 'spiritual but not religious' is cheesy - but I am actually the closest to that description. I just find organized religion, or at least the interpretations that i've seen, too restrictive to my taste.

When we first started dating, he asked me am I open to going to church with him with no expectations, and I said yes, because I was actually interested (in learning, and in him, hah). When he started socializing only with people from church, then it got too much for me. Maybe we had missed the sweet spot to have a religion talk, maybe it was other issues. I'm not an angel as well, and not the most straightforward communicator.

On a side note: how long after the break up did it take to establish platonic friendship with your exBF? Was it after he and you started other relationships?

Quote:

Originally Posted by major_merrick

"Cultish." That's pretty much the word for it. Most Christians are encouraged to actually get out into the world and interact with others in a kind manner, so as to draw others to the faith by example. It doesn't seem to happen often. The goal is to entice, rather than hammer people into the church.

No_Go, I will say this - if you ever run into TRUE Christians, you'll find them to be a fairly likeable bunch. It's just many of those who claim Christianity as their faith have the same conflicts and issues as your ex. There should have been a religion talk between the two of you a long time ago. He never was man enough to actually have the discussion. With my one exBF, thankfully, we had the important discussions and were able to end the relationship well. We're still great friends.

One other thing to note. You mentioned that most of your friends are in the scientific community, and that they are typically atheist/agnostic. I wouldn't let that drive you away from faith, if you are ever searching for a higher power. If you look at scientific evidence impartially, there's facts that point to creation or a higher power. What faith I have in my life comes from evidence, rather than upbringing or proselytizing. If you go about a search in that way, any true scientist should at least respect your methods/motives, even if he/she disagrees with your conclusions.

On a side note: how long after the break up did it take to establish platonic friendship with your exBF? Was it after he and you started other relationships?

It was kind of rough for a couple of years. We were engaged at a young age, and I broke it off because I was going through issues. We still love each other, and keeping things platonic is simply because of our relationships. He found someone else almost immediately after our breakup. That marriage was not successful. By the time he was single, I was attached to someone else, or we might have made another try (and probably failed). More or less, we're settled into who we are, but our flawed attraction hasn't gone away and we can't totally give each other up. He has a "fixer" personality - he finds broken things (like me) to pick up and take care of, and that dynamic continues to a certain extent. I get along well with his two wives. His Wife#1 often hangs out at my house because she's easily stressed out, and my GF#1's conversation soothes some of her needy/neurotic tendencies.

I guess I can't really give you a timetable, but I think it may take a year or two. I certainly wouldn't use my example as a pattern...

This makes me a little angry actually haha. I was brought up Christian and back in the day was very religious. I am now not religious at all, but my family and a few of my friends are. Back in the day, I believed it all, did the Church, bible study, socialising thing. But I had other friends. And I wouldn't ask my friends to Church in order to socialise with them. We mutually respected we had different view points. We would discuss those differences if we chose to and show the different view points. I never tried to force people to convert. I still have religious friends and that still happens. What your bf has done is not Christian behaviour. Christians are supposed to be kind, generous, accepting. Having friends and social activities at Church are important though. A lot of the stricter lifestyle choices (sex before marriage as an example) are difficult to uphold without support in a modern society.

I really respect you No_Go so going to Church with your bf. It shows you are so much more open minded than he is. Personally, I don't go to Church except in extreme circumstances e.g. weddings. I find it hypocritical of me because I know I don't believe what goes on there. Upsets my family no end!

Everyone has issues and religion can cause it's fair share. I was brought up being told things I no longer believe. Reconciling that as an adult is a challenge. If I were to still believe, there would be other challenges there too, but everyone has baggage. In terms of future partners, I'm not sure discounting religious men would benefit you. You're clearly open-minded and accepting, which can include religious people. Not all religious men will behave as your ex did. I know a number of Christians who married non-Christians (and some of them waited to move in and sleep together until after marriage). It's like any other compatibility issue. Your ex clearly wanted to marry in the faith and either hoped you'd convert or used you for experience.

You deserve someone better than him but it's not really because of his religion.

The thing that was grinding on me was the social aspect of it: his ideal week was going together to church and hanging out with the folks there on Sunday (ok with me), going to a Bible study one evening each week (I was doing it with him but reluctantly), and then going out with them once again to do something social. For me, abstracting entirely from the religious aspect, it was too much, way too much time spent with the same people in a group every week... I started resenting this whole social dynamics...

From what you describe above, this break up was the best thing to happen for you both.

When I was single, on my dating profile I stated I was an atheist. I didn't make it a big thing, though. I said something like, "Likes camping, running. Atheist. Liberal." Sure enough, current boyfriend I met through that site is an atheist. I figured any super religious folks would just pass me up, which I was perfectly fine with.

Well, I got an answer for my own question that I posted in this thread. My exBF finally openly admitted that he'd never married me unless I baptized in his church and became an active member - at minimum taking part in one bible study a week, plus a social event, plus a Sunday reading etc. He said he waited for that for the whole time of our relationship together :/ ... And I was not putting resistance, otherwise he'd have bailed much earlier... It was also discussed with other people, multiple times, I was probably the only one left out of that discussion [i.e. his church community was very concerned we're not married yet and he was certain he couldn't do it if I'm not full-on Christian...].

I'm pretty mad because this revelation happened after stringing me along for another few months... Apparently to test for the same (am I ready to convert). Or maybe he was just looking for FWB and I was convenient. I don't know. But one thing is for sure: I'd never be able to look at people claiming they are religious the same way. What I thought is innocent, turned into a desire to change my entire lifestyle, and having his love towards me contingent on my desire to convert

Lesson learned I guess...

Quote:

Originally Posted by No_Go

What does this mean in practical terms?

I am asking because I'm still trying to make sense of my ex behavior. The long story short: he's Christian, I was raised Christian (sort of - we were following the holidays etc but not going to church regularly), but I consider myself agnostic. I told him that, told him I can go to church with him, but I can't promise I'll ever become a believer.

So... 1.5 years later - I never became a believer although I was going to church with him (for him because I knew it is important for him) and *behind my back* he started scrolling on a dating site... Later (after we broke up) I discussed with him why he was not satisfied in the RL: I'm citing
- 'I definitely want a Christian wife and household'
- 'I'd never have friends if I stay with you' - explaining: he only considered friendship material the people from his church. Even for my friends (not religious) he suggested to invite them to join, otherwise he didn't seem interested in befriending them
- 'You're not interested in marriage' - I was actually, HE was the one suggesting living together and holding off proposal because he wanted to ask permission from my family first (they are overseas and I'm not close to them)... Although he was deeply uncomfortable living together and I've witnessed people from his church commenting on it ... Then he told me he viewed our living together more as a roommate situation than commitment which would have came with engagement?!?

I'm wondering was he an d*ck stringing me along or waiting for me to 'convert' before proposing? What is the typical advice Christian men get when dating a non-believer (I know he got 'advice' from his pastor - I wonder did he suggested him dumping me... he'll never tell me the truth for that matters)

In general, would a Christian men marry a non-believer if she's openly saying this but nevertheless doing the things important for him (like attending church with him)?

The question is mainly because when I start online dating again, maybe I need to weed out religious folks if that's something that is generally a problem (i.e. they won't be serious if the woman is not a believer and/or they'll attempt converting her)

Well, I got an answer for my own question that I posted in this thread. My exBF finally openly admitted that he'd never married me unless I baptized in his church and became an active member - at minimum taking part in one bible study a week, plus a social event, plus a Sunday reading etc. He said he waited for that for the whole time of our relationship together :/ ... And I was not putting resistance, otherwise he'd have bailed much earlier... It was also discussed with other people, multiple times, I was probably the only one left out of that discussion [i.e. his church community was very concerned we're not married yet and he was certain he couldn't do it if I'm not full-on Christian...].

I'm pretty mad because this revelation happened after stringing me along for another few months... Apparently to test for the same (am I ready to convert). Or maybe he was just looking for FWB and I was convenient. I don't know. But one thing is for sure: I'd never be able to look at people claiming they are religious the same way. What I thought is innocent, turned into a desire to change my entire lifestyle, and having his love towards me contingent on my desire to convert

Lesson learned I guess...

Ugh. This is a good reason that people need to be upfront about what they want in the religion department. That is a crummy thing he did to you. I dated a guy many years ago that was Jewish, and he told me up front that he would never marry a non-Jew. That is exactly what people need to do before they even think about dating because religion is one of those make or break things.

I'm wondering was he an d*ck stringing me along or waiting for me to 'convert' before proposing? What is the typical advice Christian men get when dating a non-believer (I know he got 'advice' from his pastor - I wonder did he suggested him dumping me... he'll never tell me the truth for that matters)

In general, would a Christian men marry a non-believer if she's openly saying this but nevertheless doing the things important for him (like attending church with him)?

The question is mainly because when I start online dating again, maybe I need to weed out religious folks if that's something that is generally a problem (i.e. they won't be serious if the woman is not a believer and/or they'll attempt converting her)

From what you've provided here it sounds like he's become interested in someone else and needed to find a convenient excuse to not feel guilty. When it doubt, blame it on God.

Sounds like an excuse to break-up. Yes, its lame, but people break up for all kinds of reasons and people like to blame it on reasons that don't hold them accountable (confirmation bias).

My advice is to stop communicating with him. He's not going to take any responsibility for his actions, and all he is doing now is making you upset and feel bad about yourself.

For the future, I would not let this guy make you bitter about religion in general, but if someone writes a particular belief or political persuasion in their profile, I would probably take it at face value. For the record, his version of Christianity sounds pretty legalistic. Attending all of these study groups...that would turn me off, and I'm a Christian lol Honestly though, all he's doing now is setting the bar so high, you can never meet his rubber ruler expectations and he can justify dismissing you.

In short, God actually answered your prayer and got this guy out of your life! It's painful I understand, but do you really want to marry a guy that strong arms you and gives you ultimatums? That's not love.

To be fair he mentioned early on he wanted to 'date a Christian girl'. Back then this raised concerns but I brushed it off because I thought I am fitting the bill - I was raised Christian, follow the major holidays etc.

Back then I also told him I'm open to going to church with him but I can't guarantee I'd become a believer, and asked if he's ok with that. He confirmed he's ok. I don't know what could have I done differently - I thought our positions about religion were clear from the start...

Quote:

Originally Posted by BC1980

Ugh. This is a good reason that people need to be upfront about what they want in the religion department. That is a crummy thing he did to you. I dated a guy many years ago that was Jewish, and he told me up front that he would never marry a non-Jew. That is exactly what people need to do before they even think about dating because religion is one of those make or break things.

I thought about this as well - maybe he just lost attraction to me or met someone else [our initial break up started when I caught him on dating sites - which he never actually felt guilty about because 'I was bad to him' and he 'stopped without actually meeting people']. He was also making comments that I was not keeping up with his expectations appearance-wise after we moved in (like I was not dressing up for him?? Which is strange because if anything, I dress too formal).

But he kept coming back. I moved out of our place and he came back to me. He repeated that over and over. Maybe it was just for sex, but isn't that against Christian morals??? I can't fanthom how an actual believer that he states he is will be fine with FWB situation.

His words to me were also: 'if I stay with you I'll never have friends. Only real friends are from church, the others are just associates'. I guess that's why the sky high expectations for social activity within church. That I'm sure he's not using as an excuse because of the general knowledge I have for him - he's dead scared people out of church are not accepting and genuine, I don't know is this belief has something to do with the particular take of Christianity that he's following or it is just his own issues.

And lastly, I asked why he never even put out his requirements when we were getting serious - his answer was: because he wanted to show me by example how great the church community is and how this will help me finding purpose in life.

I'm trying NC indeed because this is really driving me crazy.

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheFinalWord

From what you've provided here it sounds like he's become interested in someone else and needed to find a convenient excuse to not feel guilty. When it doubt, blame it on God.

Sounds like an excuse to break-up. Yes, its lame, but people break up for all kinds of reasons and people like to blame it on reasons that don't hold them accountable (confirmation bias).

My advice is to stop communicating with him. He's not going to take any responsibility for his actions, and all he is doing now is making you upset and feel bad about yourself.

For the future, I would not let this guy make you bitter about religion in general, but if someone writes a particular belief or political persuasion in their profile, I would probably take it at face value. For the record, his version of Christianity sounds pretty legalistic. Attending all of these study groups...that would turn me off, and I'm a Christian lol Honestly though, all he's doing now is setting the bar so high, you can never meet his rubber ruler expectations and he can justify dismissing you.

In short, God actually answered your prayer and got this guy out of your life! It's painful I understand, but do you really want to marry a guy that strong arms you and gives you ultimatums? That's not love.

To be fair he mentioned early on he wanted to 'date a Christian girl'. Back then this raised concerns but I brushed it off because I thought I am fitting the bill - I was raised Christian, follow the major holidays etc.

Back then I also told him I'm open to going to church with him but I can't guarantee I'd become a believer, and asked if he's ok with that. He confirmed he's ok. I don't know what could have I done differently - I thought our positions about religion were clear from the start...

Maybe he changed his mind midway through dating you or, like Final Word said, he is using religion as an excuse. I guess you won't ever really know, so it is best to stop talking to him. It is kind of bizarre to start setting standards like X number of study groups per week. That's just weird to me.

I thought about this as well - maybe he just lost attraction to me or met someone else [our initial break up started when I caught him on dating sites - which he never actually felt guilty about because 'I was bad to him' and he 'stopped without actually meeting people']. He was also making comments that I was not keeping up with his expectations appearance-wise after we moved in (like I was not dressing up for him?? Which is strange because if anything, I dress too formal).

But he kept coming back. I moved out of our place and he came back to me. He repeated that over and over. Maybe it was just for sex, but isn't that against Christian morals??? I can't fanthom how an actual believer that he states he is will be fine with FWB situation.

His words to me were also: 'if I stay with you I'll never have friends. Only real friends are from church, the others are just associates'. I guess that's why the sky high expectations for social activity within church. That I'm sure he's not using as an excuse because of the general knowledge I have for him - he's dead scared people out of church are not accepting and genuine, I don't know is this belief has something to do with the particular take of Christianity that he's following or it is just his own issues.

And lastly, I asked why he never even put out his requirements when we were getting serious - his answer was: because he wanted to show me by example how great the church community is and how this will help me finding purpose in life.

I'm trying NC indeed because this is really driving me crazy.

This guy has issues and they aren't to do with his religion. People outside of Church aren't accepting so they can't be friends?? Talk about pot calling the kettle.

You are well shot of this guy. He is a liar, a hypocrite and potentially a little abusive (it was your fault he was on dating sites).

It really isn't Christianity at fault here - it is him. I know plenty of Christians who are with non religious people. They manage just fine and are accepting of each other. If you really like someone in the future who is a Christian, don't let that be the only reason you reject them.

As for this nutter, NC, don't communicate at all, do not let him back in. He is adding nothing to your life and you deserve so much better.

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