peeker643 wrote:Id like to see his blood test results from 2009 and 2010 as compared to 2012.

I'm not saying, I'm just saying.

Yeah. Who knows.

Tribe's in a bad spot. Huff hasn't really pitched coming back from his injury. McAllister has been decent for Columbus. Slowey has a 4.85 and has given up 29 hits in 26 innings. Scott Barnes has a 5.06, though that's probably a little bit of bad luck as he hasn't allowed a HR and has allowed just 19 baserunners in 16 IP. Corey Kluber's struck out 35 in 27 IP, but has a 1.48 WHIP.

I still think they ought to send Ubaldo for an MRI. Both on his arm and his right hip. He looks like he's getting zero push off his back leg.

A God Damn dead man would understand that if a minor league bus in any city took a real sharp right turn, a Zack McCalister would likely fall out. - Lead Pipe

peeker643 wrote:Id like to see his blood test results from 2009 and 2010 as compared to 2012.

I'm not saying, I'm just saying.

Yeah. Who knows.

Tribe's in a bad spot. Huff hasn't really pitched coming back from his injury. McAllister has been decent for Columbus. Slowey has a 4.85 and has given up 29 hits in 26 innings. Scott Barnes has a 5.06, though that's probably a little bit of bad luck as he hasn't allowed a HR and has allowed just 19 baserunners in 16 IP. Corey Kluber's struck out 35 in 27 IP, but has a 1.48 WHIP.

I still think they ought to send Ubaldo for an MRI. Both on his arm and his right hip. He looks like he's getting zero push off his back leg.

No offense, but if they haven't thought of any of that then they deserve each shitty outing he gives them.

I'm all for taking a big gamble in trades at the right spots, but all the warning signs were there with this guy before we made the move AND we paid a price very similar if not higher than the Cliff Lee deal for a contract that was only one year longer. When Lee was dealt, he was a defending Cy Young winner and was nails the whole first half of the '09 season. If you're giving up two highly regarded near-MLB ready pitching prospects (think about their value in July, not now), it better be as close to a can't-miss guy as there is. Looking like a big disaster and a mistake the organization couldn't afford to make.

"Well then I guess there's only one thing left to do...win the whole, f***in', thing."- Jake Taylor

Kingpin74 wrote:I'm all for taking a big gamble in trades at the right spots, but all the warning signs were there with this guy before we made the move AND we paid a price very similar if not higher than the Cliff Lee deal for a contract that was only one year longer. When Lee was dealt, he was a defending Cy Young winner and was nails the whole first half of the '09 season. If you're giving up two highly regarded near-MLB ready pitching prospects (think about their value in July, not now), it better be as close to a can't-miss guy as there is. Looking like a big disaster and a mistake the organization couldn't afford to make.

'Good intentions, wrong dimensions' is a phrase that comes to mind. Liked the ambition but it appears they were sold a bill of goods.

Kingpin74 wrote:I'm all for taking a big gamble in trades at the right spots, but all the warning signs were there with this guy before we made the move AND we paid a price very similar if not higher than the Cliff Lee deal for a contract that was only one year longer. When Lee was dealt, he was a defending Cy Young winner and was nails the whole first half of the '09 season. If you're giving up two highly regarded near-MLB ready pitching prospects (think about their value in July, not now), it better be as close to a can't-miss guy as there is. Looking like a big disaster and a mistake the organization couldn't afford to make.

Yea, that's fair, sans the mistake the organization couldn't afford to make part, at least not yet. Ubaldo's motion, delivery, mechanics are sorts of fucked up. And the fact he refuses any help from our pitching staff is just asinine.

In addition to the Ubaldo trade, I think the Indians were really counting on Beltran signing with us. So they definitely were aggressive, which they should be lauded for.

"I must be cruel only to be kind;Thus bad begins, and worse remains behind."

He's just been bad. I'd have been upset with decent, given what we traded to get him, but he's been actually bad. It makes me sad.

It happens. It would be poor of me to say I was on this from second 1 last year (but I will!). It made no sense for Col to trade him as he had a very friendly contract unless there were issues. As others mentioned perhaps both White and Pomeranz will also stink making the whole trade a wash and another meaningless episode in Cleveland sports history. Perhaps his first game was real and these last 4 are outliers, but I have a hard time believing that. We need Carmona/roberto Hernandez?? back...that should work.

It is really simple. If you think trading for an ace that is in need of a mechanics overhaul...it probably is not going to work.

Small tweaks might work, but if they went into it thinking they were going to change the way the guy throws a baseball...you cannot do that at this point in life. Your mechanics are your mechanics and the only time they should ever be changed is if there is an obvious injury risk in not changing them.

You cannot be thinking about that kind of shit in the middle of the diamond.

pup wrote:It is really simple. If you think trading for an ace that is in need of a mechanics overhaul...it probably is not going to work.

Small tweaks might work, but if they went into it thinking they were going to change the way the guy throws a baseball...you cannot do that at this point in life. Your mechanics are your mechanics and the only time they should ever be changed is if there is an obvious injury risk in not changing them.

You cannot be thinking about that kind of shit in the middle of the diamond.

But that's the fact of the matter. Of cours eit won't happen, but that's what is required if he is going to pitch effectively for us.

"There is but one thing of real value: to cultivate truth and justice and to live without anger in the midst of lying and unjust men"

pup wrote:It is really simple. If you think trading for an ace that is in need of a mechanics overhaul...it probably is not going to work.

Small tweaks might work, but if they went into it thinking they were going to change the way the guy throws a baseball...you cannot do that at this point in life. Your mechanics are your mechanics and the only time they should ever be changed is if there is an obvious injury risk in not changing them.

You cannot be thinking about that kind of shit in the middle of the diamond.

But that's the fact of the matter. Of cours eit won't happen, but that's what is required if he is going to pitch effectively for us.

His mechanics seemed to work just fine a couple years ago. He got dinged up and someone decided to tweek them. Now the Tribe wanted to overhaul them.

pup wrote:His mechanics seemed to work just fine a couple years ago. He got dinged up and someone decided to tweek them. Now the Tribe wanted to overhaul them.

Bad idea.

Are we sure that Ubaldo didn't change them himself when he got hurt during Spring Training 2011? That's what Westbrook did when he hurt his oblique in 2007. He altered his delivery to come back faster and then the added strain on his elbow led to 2008's Tommy John.

I don't have a link for that, but back in summer 2008, Poove and I had a guy named Kyle Boddy from Driveline Mechanics, a baseball training website, on our Sunday night podcast, and he told us that was more than likely the reason.

Not out of the realm of possibility that Ubaldo altered his mechanics after he had the hip problem and then developed a lot of bad habits.

Boddy used to do side-by-side comparisons of pro pitchers and post them on his website. Maybe I'll track him down and see if he has the time to look at Ubaldo in 2010 and then Ubaldo now. His analysis was always very detailed.

A God Damn dead man would understand that if a minor league bus in any city took a real sharp right turn, a Zack McCalister would likely fall out. - Lead Pipe