Liverpool face Manchester United this weekend in another hotly anticipated Premier League clash, and ahead of the game, United legend Gordon Hill has stuck the knife into Brendan Rodgers and Daniel Sturridge.

In an interview with Man Utd blog Talk of the Devils, Hill - who played over 100 games for United between 1975 and 1978 - revealed that he 'laughed' at Rodgers' demeanour in the recent 'Being Liverpool' documentary, and insisted the team he's put together is not 'top class'. He barked:

“He [Rodgers] is trying to change a legacy, to play the football he played at Swansea, but the team he’s got together aren’t top class, though.

"Daniel Sturridge thinks he’s top class, but he’s not. Liverpool have not got great players, they have workmanlike players"

Hill's comments will no doubt enrage most Liverpool fans, but he's right about the club's 'workmanlike' players. Suarez and Gerrard apart, the Reds don't have 'great' players, and many are indeed comparatively pedestrian.

Hill's comment echo the views of another ex-United player, Roy Keane, who argued in November that Steven Gerrard is 'not a great player. He told ITV Sport:

"Gerrard is a good player, but not a great player.

"He's had a tough couple of years for Liverpool. He has shown he is capable of winning games on his own, but I don't think he's made the players around him much better.

"Gerrard is maybe a little bit behind the likes of Scholes and Vieira when it comes to Premier League greatness".

Individually, Gerrard has had an amazing impact on Liverpool over the years, but being completely objective, Keane is probably right that Scholes and Vieira are ahead of him in terms of Premier League greatness. How do you measure such greatness? Well, Scholes and Vieira have 13 league titles between them, and that has to count for something.

Keane is wrong about Gerrard not being a 'great player' though; for Liverpool, he undoubtedly is; For England, he's merely been average, but there's no denying his influence at Anfield.

Having said that, I have to agree with Keane's contention that Gerrard hasn't improved the players around him. In some ways, Gerrard is a selfish player; he seems to thrive on the 'Liverpool saviour' tag, and over the years, he has often thrived whilst the team has suffered.

A prime example of this is 2002-2004: those two season were atrocious for the team, but Gerrard excelled; indeed, the 'Liverpool is one man team' legend was arguably forged during those two seasons, yet Gerrard's brilliance did not rub off on his colleagues.

I'm sure other LFC fans will disagree, but I can't think of many players who have massively improved as a direct result of playing with Gerrard. The same could probably be argued about Scholes and Vieira, but their brilliance led to league titles, which by extension means that their team-mates also played at an optimum level.

Having said that, whether improving players is a valid criterion for considering a player 'great' is, however, open to debate.

Jaimie Kanwar

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Comments
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nick1811
said...

In my opinion, the argument Scholes and vieira improved players around them is very misleading. over the past many years, united and arsenal have simply had better squads than liverpool, which is why scholes and vieira had better players around them compared to gerrard. how the hell can a player improve another player? please tell me if I'm wrong, but all you can do is encourage them in training and on the pitch..

You are measuring Scholes as being better than Gerrard because he's won more premier league titles ???? THE TEAM win the titles, not the individual - Michael (always bloody injured) Owen has a premier league medal so has Blackburn Rovers substitute goalie who barely touched a ball, are they therefore regarded as greater than Suarez, Gerrard and co.???? Come off it FFS!

Hills comments are fair enough I suupose but the united team only has a few "great" players. They keep getting results though so credit to the manager.As for Gerrard, he will go down in history as one of Liverpool's best ever players, he is in good company so surely that defines him as "great".

It helps if your club don't consistently waste hundreds of millions of pounds on average players over the years like cisse, jovanovic, heggem, diao, cheyrou, biscan, Eric meijer(spelling), Sean Dundee lol, cavalieri, kvarme, pennant, Gonzalez, joe cole, downing, Carroll, Adam etc etc etc. if we bought right more consistently then things may have been better in terms of the league. Better players with better winning mentality and desire would raise their games like Gerrard

I think it is hard to tell if Gerrard has improved the players around him. How do you ever really know? Take Torres, he improved massively when he came to us, was that due to Gerrard, or Rafa, or the system played etc, who actually knows?

scoles,keane and vieira all fine players but would any off them won a premiership trophey if they had been at anfield think not,and they certainly would not have won a european cup,because none of them would have filled gerrards boots

Agreed, to even try to say this player improved people more than others, is to almost make yourself a laughing stock in my view. Unless you interview/survey every player that has played with said player, how would you ever know if the player improved them or the manager. Takes players playing with Scholes, maybe it was Fergie who improved them. Same for Wenger.

Hills knows that Liverpool is a great club and during his Man.Utd career Liverpool was the club to beat...He is clearly showing his frustration and his cheap comments will not affect any one at Liverpool. Rodgers is doing a fantastic job there and you can see the style and approach of liverpool has changed. It took 28 years for Man.Utd to win the title and Rodgers is here less than six month and it is only 20 years for liverpool since not winning the title.One day Man.Utd will have to give back all their titles since to my opinion and as long as what we saw during their matches....they have always been favored by the officials.....This Sunday again it will be difficult for Liverpool as the referee is none other than the great Mr Howard Webb....My prediction for tomorrow is Suarez sent off and 2 penalties awarded to Man.Utd....This is Man.Utd as usual......

Would anyone regard Matt Le Tissier as a 'Premier League Great'? Gerrard has essentially done what Le Tissier did, except Steven's done it at a much higher standard.

With most pundits, sadly, it's almost like the Benitez years never happened. Granted, Gerrard might not have won the Premier League titles that Viera and Scholes have won (and let's face it, Keane is including himself in that list), but none of them have single-handedly kept managed to put a positive slant on the on-field department a club in utter disarray for the best part of a decade. In many wats, Gerrard is far greater than any of them.

And believe me, I can criticise Steven Gerrard for many things. I just think that he needs defending sometimes from some of the more inane jibes. It's all contextual to the club at which the player is playing - sometimes pundits forget that.

I'm not sure measuring a teams success is a measure of one players greatness (Surely it measures a teams greatness), or whether the impact a player has on those around him can indeed be measured at all, You are either a gifted footballer or you are not, a gifted player does not make those other players around him any more or less gifted. An average player will always just be average. Therefore the only improvement that can be imparted on others is a psychological one in my opinion.

I think the people who say Gerrard isn't/wasn't great are the same people who say, for example, Messi isn't the greatest because he hasn't won the world cup - If you know what I mean. That PL title may always come back to haunt SG.

Scholes is fantastic, you could see that he was missed after he retired. However if you compare Scholes and Gerrard there are some differences with the teams they played with. Scholes was part of a generation which included the likes of himself, the Neville brothers, Beckham and Giggs. Apart from Beckham, all the 'great' or better players at United who were there for long periods stayed with the club.

Gerrard had good players around him such as Owen, Mascherano, Alonso, Hamman, Carra and Hyypia to name a few who could get into any team during their prime - But apart from Carra they all left. Different managerial regimes probably takes its toll too? Gerrard never really had a stable team and when we had chances we didn't take them (2nd under GH and RB)

And finally Gerrard had better international careers than all of the United players I mentioned, Beckham may be even, I'm not sure. And who has been 'great' for England anyways?

Everytime i read an articule posted by this Jaimie bloke i have to laugh..Schole's and Viera's brilliance alone led to winning the title?? Look at the vast amount of talent around them in recent years, they didnt win the title, the team did. Gerrard hasn't improved players around him?? Look at Lucas for one example, look at the player he is turning out to be "albeit" he's slowly recovering from injury. Look at Sterling's recent quote..Come on man

There's inspiring and then there's improving. Scholes could probably help you make a 50 yard pass, Gerrard could teach you how to attack the ball and hit it, Suarez could teach you how to nutmeg ;) Gerrard has often given the team a boost but that was more inspiration, which could have improved other player performances, who knows...

if you were to be talking about how a player could inspire/teach others, you'd need to be strictly talking about their leadership qualities. in this case, roy keane is talking about the actual performance quality of gerrard. somehow, he thinks the ability to 'improve' team mates, and one's own skill, come hand in hand. what a load of bullshit. gerrard simply hasn't had that consistent level of quality around him in his career that vieira and scholes have been afforded the luxury of.

The Gerrard vendetta continues a few posts ago this site was swallowing the clearly fabricated story of Sahin's loan termination due to Gerard's jealousy. Now the site supports the comments of Roy Keane rabid inanity is a reflection of how he played the game. This, along with the oxymoronic logic that Gerrard is behind Scholes because he hadn't won as many Premier League titles - do teams not win titles and did not Scholes have the likes of Beckham, Van Nistelrooy, Schmeichel, Cole, Yorke, Giggs et al alongside him when collected said titles while Gerrard laboured alongside Biscan, Smicer, Cisse, Diouf, et al. However Gerrard must be castigated because of his Liverpool saviour tag when he clearly has in fact been the major factor over the last 10 years in bringing trophies into the Anfield trophy cabinet with little contribution from the consistently mediocre supporting cast. Please listen to respected players who HAVE PLAYED alongside him - Alonso, Torres, Owen and Sahin himself. But surely don't have the audacity to support comments by Roy Keane.

1.Keane has no credibility as a pundit and as a player2. There is a consistently unwarranted critique of Gerrard on this site. Everyone's entitled to their opinion but be careful of swallowing clearly fabricated stories: eg Sahin loan termination being due to Gerrard's jealousy.3. Teams win titles. Scholes title's came alongside Beckham, Van Nistelrooy Schmeichel, Rooney, Giggs et al. Gerrard's lack of titles have come alongside Biscan, Smicer, Diouf, Heskey, Cole, Murphy, Cisse et al. AND YET despite that shower of mediocrity has indeed improved the team remarkably, to FA and League Cup victories and a CL title and subsequent final performance in 2007. Even the most neutral football supporter would single Gerrard's influence out over the last ten years and the key factor in driving a mediocre team to improbably victories. Hence, has improved a team immeasurably, something neither Viera or Scholes can come close to touching.

I've lost a bit of faith in the sense that he doesn't appear to have the right mentality/personal characteristics for the job, not with has actualy technical ability to do the job.

He's too soft; too pally with the players; sucks up to senior players too much; massages egos too much; praises poor performance too much etc. It's that side of his approach that's has led me to loose a little faith in him.

I don't want him to criticise the players all the time, but he needs more backbone. At the moment, it's like he's one of the lads; Gerrard and Suarez's mate, and he'll defend them to the death, even when it's ridiculous to do so.

Some may call that loyalty, but I call it inferiority complex.

You wouldn't find Mourinho, Ferguson, Wenger, Benitez, Shankly or Paisley *constantly* pandering to players' egos. If we'd got Van Gaal instead, do you really think he'd be kissing the senior players' asses all the time? Proclaiming that it's an 'honour and a privilege' to work with Suarez? Calling every performance - win, lose or draw - terrific; incredible; fantastic; amazing; wonderful or variations thereof?

This approach really bugs me. It's being dishonest with the fans, and when Rodgers talks to the press, he is indirectly talking to the fans.

If the players respected Rodgers, he wouldn't have to suck up to him. They're just accept his decisions because they believe in what he's doing. In my view, Rodgers constantly lavishes praise because he's trying to keep them onside, which says to me that certain players are not entirely convinced.

Some of the stuff he comes out with is cringeworthy too. In yesterday's press conference, as well as the usual 'the players are amazing' Schtick, he was going on how he's impressed because they have the 'courage' to go and play football.

WTF is he talking about? Courage?! This is not Iraq or Afghanistan. It's a group of men kicking a football around. What has courage got to do with it? He makes it sound like these grossly overpaid ladyboys are making some kind of sacrifice, whereas the reality is they're living the dream: playing football and getting paid.

Well got my ticket for the UTD match all free paid with expenses from london to the ground. Only snag is I have to be in the UTD. Some utd mates want to take the mickey. Offer me tickets all the time. Oh I do hope we win. If anyone is on the London train buzz me . We could have a pint or two. lol

I usually agree with alot of your opinions Jamie, but I feel they are not always helpful to the club. I still have a lot of confidence in BR. He openly admits that he was uncomfortable doing the Being Liverpool muck so I don't blame him for that. As for the press conferences yes he doesn't show a lot of back bone but, for the most part he has managed to keep the critics of his back and in this day and age, for a young manager that is very important because once the press turn on you you're finished. I think it's pointless comparing to other managers because things have changed so much in the last 5 years it's a different environment.

Shankly was lucky because the fans had so much blind faith that even when he was wrong he was right. I really can't see the point of singing YNWA these days because it has basically become a lie! How many years was it sang for Rafa and as soon as he has a bad season he was hung, drawn and quartered.

Scholes and Gerard are 2 different types of players. Gerard is box to box Scholes is the heartbeat, the playmaker. Both are world class at what they do and I would put them on par with eachother in terms of effectiveness. I would only agree with the article because the playmaker a la Scholes is played to improve the team and make the team flow. Gerards job is to drive forward, score and maybe pick out a long ball for the number 9. The nature of Gerards job means it is hard to improve the rest of the team. As a neutral I'd say they are both world class but my favourite player is Scholes because it takes a very rare brain and talent to be able to do what he and Xavi do.

I think Gerrard has been close to HIS and the teams best all season. Gerrard is playing more like a defensive midfielder who gets the occasional goal and hits good passes which is what brought him to prominience in the first place as a 19 year old. We have spent the last ten years extracting every last drop of Gerrards talent when all along we should hve been putting better more skillfull players around him and allowing him to play within himself a little more as he is now.

I think to sum it up, he lacks a bit of backbone. I like the style BR wants, and I support him. Just like any manager I want them to do well, as it means we will be winning, but sometimes I think he kisses up to Suarez to much. Take the handball goal, instead of just saying, it happens, and I feel for Mansfield, it was once again a "its ok, he has done nothing wrong". Don`t get me wrong, all players would have done what Suarez did, but for a manager I would like to see a bit more respect shown the football, and less of a I will do anything to keep my player feeling loved so he stays attitude.

Would roy keane have done better in some if the sides gerrard has had to play in & driven us to a few titles? Gordon hill was crap, not fit to lace stevies boots, its all blinkered manc drivel, keane was a good player but in a far stronger team it kills me to admit

haha, yeah it`s not to big a deal, just me being picky, the general layout is the same really, and I switched mine so oldest posts come up first, so it looks/works the same anyway. I do miss not being able to see who liked your posts though.

its the inconsistency he displays with players which irks me...if his management style was to blast or lavish all his players i could live with it as being his style of management .But he doesn't, some players he fawns over some he doesn't...when i was in management the number one things which grated and caused negativity with staff was favoritism well meaning or not.......

As a United fan of 20 years, I'd say Scholes is in a league of his own. Neither Gerrard nor Vieira come close to him in my opinion. The great Spannish midfielders of the modern era looked up to and based their games on Scholes', and that is why they have so many quality cm nowadays, that's why theyre winning world cups, european cups, etc. I dont think most England fans really appreciate just how good a player they had on their hands. I think Gerrard would have produced more for England were he not always having to play the defensively minded role to accomodate Lampard's average attacking play.

And despite my scepticism about Rodgers' ability to somewhat revolutionise the culture at Liverpool, he seems to be doing a decent job in the sense that the players are behind him and they are improving on the pitch which is all you can ask for. He's good at dealing with the media hacks, which is one reason why he gets patience from the fans but obviously, there will come a time when fans expect to see tangible progress in terms of cups or Champions League positions and that will be a dificult task.

I think you make BR's encouragement of players out of proportion Hes doing what a lot of good coaches do and giving them whats called a "sh*t sandwich". He believes its the way to get the best out of them. Its the opposite to Rafas style. Maybe he does it too much and he will learn that in time. Hes a young coach and not the finished article himself yet, and you knew that when he joined (and when you gave him your suppoert).

The days of me hanging onto a managers every word is long gone.You have O.A.P's playing pathetic mind games, managers who are blind to certain decisions and make up a completely different story to the event witnessed on the pitch.Combine that with the recycled stuff they come out with at press conferences.The majority of what they say is garbage.When it comes to the treatment of senior players he's probably looked at what happened at CHELSEA with AVB.He alienated big characters at the club and as a result he didn't last a season.Blowing smoke up their behinds,I believe is a ploy to make sure there are no dissenting voices during the turbulent experience of transition.BR is losing me when it comes to transfers, not the over use of superlatives in interviews or praise for players.You're only as good as what you can field and his activity in the transfer market hasn't exactly been creative.This was my major reservation about him or MARTINEZ (the two front runners) being manager.What caliber of players would they sign and to date I haven't been impressed.Our youth coming through despite it being as healthy than at any stage that I can remember isn't going to be enough, we need high quality intelligent purchases too!

I'm still behind Rodgers, but I myself have doubts that he has got what it takes to be a top manager. Nice ideas, a good line in bullshit but I think he lacks that all consuming desire that drives Mourinho, SAF etc.

Of the people we actually could have gotten, I too would have gone for Van Gaal. I don't think FSG have the bollocks to employ a maverick like him though.

I agree Scholes is better than Gerrard, but personally I'd give Gerrard the edge over Vieira. I don't think it is outrageous to claim one is better than the other, though given Vieira's international success, it would probably be easier to make a case for him. Certainly, if there have been better midfield players in the Premiership, they are the only two candidates.

In fairness to BR on Being Liverpool, it was really early in his tenure and the start of the season was a nightmare. Sometimes nightmare starts to the season happen. Spurs had one recently, Arsenal too. Tricky fixtures, luck, and sure sometimes the odd a stinker of a game can line up and boom, you look like the guy taking drink orders on the Titanic.

Surely the onus is on the player to learn from a better player? Its more the manager/coaches role before that. i would say you have to look at the type of players scholes/viera had around them when they won those titles. Henry bergkamp ronaldo cantona just a few names.

a good striker can look great when you have a great player making loads of assists also a great player can do things others cant which can make players around them look better.For example you could make a run when say scholes or gerrard have the ball. Nut the same player would not make the same run when say djemba djemba or cheyrou. Point is great players can make good players look better

Jamie before a manager comes in you are full of support but once he starts doing his job you get on their backs. Same with rafa and dalgleish and now with rodgers. Get a grip. Why cant you just support our manager for once

Nonsense. I didn't start regularly criticising Rafa until 2007, three years after he arrived.

You need to get a grip, not me. You seem to be another one of those fans who has a very narrow view of what constitutes 'support'. My support for Rodgers hasn't changed overall - I still back him and want him to succeed, but that doesn't mean he's above criticism.

I've praised him plenty of times since the start of the season, but I've also been critical, but highlighting what I perceive to be problems doesn't change my overall support. Why can't you see that.

You and others want me to adhere to the typical fan template: blanket praise and support; never question anything; accept things at face value etc. That's not going to happen.

Agree with the comment but Cavalieri now plays for Fluminense who won the championship in Brazil. He's rated as one of the best keepers this season. Perhaps we should have held on to some players that have been in our squad Cavalieri, Alonso, Tom Ince, Diarra, Warnock, etc.

Gordon Hill, who? legend my arse...legend, how come i haven't heard of this legend. the great Eusebio, the one named icons Pele, Maradona, the genius of Zidane, the legend of Franz Beckenbauer....Gordon Hill, if his name is anything to go by this mans game was like watching paint dry, boring, dull and definately a shade of grey

I agree with you but it's understandable at the same time, considering the media's infatuation with building Suarez up to knock him down, that Rodgers wants to make a public issue of his standing by his player. That type of handball incident happens up and down the country every weekend and if it were another player, it wouldnt have been an issue. He's quite good at dealing with media so we'll see how Suarez responds to the support. Hopefully with a stinker against United today!

Why I read this web page is completely baffling. Torres left for £50 million. Mascherano and Alonso £ 30 mill each. Massive profits on all. Does that mean they became better players then? Aberloa, riise, all became better players.

Everyone knows that's Roy keane is an arrogant tit! And Mr Jaime Kanwar are you living up Alex fergusons arse or are you just there on holiday! Scholars better than Gerrard my backside.... In footballing terms they can't touch his class. In a team that has won more honours recently than Liverpool you are measuring the wrong stats mate. And with that I will not be reading your articles anymore. Dick.YNWA

Hes shown himself to be pretty harsh when it comes to dropping players/showing them the door, who he doesnt think are good enough, so we should give him that. Does his firendly really matter that much in that context? Expecting him to drop Gerrard isn't realistic.

you write every story yourself jaimie , that does not make you a credible journalist just because you started your own website. you always have a silly headline to get people to click your link only to read a story no one cares about. what liverpool fan cares about what gordan hill says?, most liverpool fans wont of even heqard of him yet youre headline calls him a man utd hero!.

youre writing is poor and you make storys seem bigger than they are because you have no sources of your own or any access to players or anyone actually in the know!

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