I have to amend my statement about coming here and being able to discuss hockey with hockey fans in the past.

After looking at this thread I notice that except for haroldsnepts and hockeytown0001 you are all either newbees or old trolls. Makes me kind of sad, yeah, there was some ribbing both ways but it is fun to discuss hockey between different fan bases. It's pretty obvious those here now don't want that. it's more fun I guess to just be right all the time and never hear an opposing opinion.

Have a good day

Moderator/Admin feel free to delete the account or better yet remember my name and if the grown ups come back let me know.

"People assume that time is a strict progression of cause to effect, but *actually* from a non-linear, non-subjective viewpoint - it's more like a big ball of wibbly wobbly... time-y wimey... stuff." -- The Doctor

If you want to discuss hockey, try one of the threads discussing hockey. If you want to discuss other teams and their fans, remember that this a Wings board, with a Wings bias, and the prevailing opinion about other teams is going to fall somewhere in the range of 'indifference' to 'they suck'. Deal.

The right, sure. It's a free country. Those fans have the right to be classless douchebags. And we have the right to call them as such.

Justification is debateable, and it seems we can't agree on that issue. So I guess we should just leave it at that.

Forgive me if I rant a bit here.

I don't have a problem with 'bandwagon' fans the sense of fans who only take interest when the team is winning. Every organization in sports has those. I don't think you have to be a die-hard attending every game no matter how bad the team is to be a good fan. People have limited time and income, I don't expect people to spend what they have on a poor product.

For me, it's the attitude of some bandwagoners that gets to me. The attitude that brings them out in droves to Wings boards demanding respect. We didn't even play you in the playoffs. We were nothing more than an also-ran last season. Why are you here looking for validation? Why does everyone come to us to wave their victory banners, mock us for our failures? Does it really mean so much around the league for teams to be considered better than us? I guess we should take it as a compliment, but I just find it annoying. Let me ask you this; in 2008, how many Wings fans went out policing the Hawks boards for any percieved slights to our status?

Also, the sense of entitlement for some of these fans even though they haven't proven a willingness to pay their dues. I don't mean supporting a losing team. In many ways it's much easier to support a team with no expectations. You can't be disappointed. I mean supporting a good team that loses when you expect them to win.

You talk about how much success the Wings have had in recent memory, but that is a double-edged sword. With that success comes the expectation of more success. Since 1995, our seasons have had only two possible conclusions: Cup or Failure. We might have the most successful team over that span, but at the same time we have also endured the most failure. We are invested in our team to an extent I don't think you really understand. Probably half the leauge would be ecstatic just to make the playoffs this year. For us the prospect of missing the playoffs borders on tragic. A first round loss here is an embarassment. Last year in Phoenix it was an epic achievement, even though they had home ice and could easily have been considered the favorite. When Pittsburgh and Chicago lost to us, fans took it as a moral victory that they made it so far. When we lost to the Ducks and Pens in the same circumstances, they were profoundly disappointing failures. Even when we won the Cup most of the talk around the league centered around the rise of the Penguins.

You all come here playing the victim because we don't idolize every Cup winner, demanding respect that you haven't earned. Maybe it's just the 'instant success' factor; you haven't had a chance yet to take your lumps, but you are willing to. Pens fans probably would have said the same thing, but their bandwagon seemed to empty pretty quickly.

Come back when the Hawks are eliminated. Make excuses, whine about officiating and injuries and bad luck and all the other things you do when you're frustrated because your team let you down. Listen to fans around the league berate you for those excuses, tell you your reign is over. Fans around the league hate the Wings and us fans. Every team has the Wings games circled on their schedule almost like a rival or defending champ. League marketing is even sick of us, and always looking for the next big thing to replace us as headliners. That's what we Wings fans have been doing for over a decade.

You don't deserve the thrill of victory if defeat isn't agony. You haven't shown that yet. Even now you talk about the Hawks struggles like it doesn't bother you, like you expect nothing, like you could walk away from a second round loss with your head held high. Success is wonderful, and much appreciated, but also a reminder of the greater success we've failed to achieve. Your success still leaves you a lot closer to Nashville than it does to us, and you haven't yet demonstrated any emotional investment in your team. Yet you have the gall to step into enemey territory demanding equality in our justifiably biased discussions. Un-*******-believable.

Well done sir... well done.

Scroll to 1:15:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ewkuCU-Afbg&feature=player_embedded#!

The most popular choice among the Red Wings as to who would volunteer to play goalie – several Panthers did in their game – was Brendan Smith.

"He's pretty competitive and he seems to be good at everything," Justin Abdelkader said. "He'd volunteer himself."

Babcock was a bit more hesitant about Smith. "Yeah, yeah, just work on getting out of your zone," Babcock said

If you want to discuss hockey, try one of the threads discussing hockey. If you want to discuss other teams and their fans, remember that this a Wings board, with a Wings bias, and the prevailing opinion about other teams is going to fall somewhere in the range of 'indifference' to 'they suck'. Deal.

The right, sure. It's a free country. Those fans have the right to be classless douchebags. And we have the right to call them as such.

Justification is debateable, and it seems we can't agree on that issue. So I guess we should just leave it at that.

Forgive me if I rant a bit here.

I don't have a problem with 'bandwagon' fans the sense of fans who only take interest when the team is winning. Every organization in sports has those. I don't think you have to be a die-hard attending every game no matter how bad the team is to be a good fan. People have limited time and income, I don't expect people to spend what they have on a poor product.

For me, it's the attitude of some bandwagoners that gets to me. The attitude that brings them out in droves to Wings boards demanding respect. We didn't even play you in the playoffs. We were nothing more than an also-ran last season. Why are you here looking for validation? Why does everyone come to us to wave their victory banners, mock us for our failures? Does it really mean so much around the league for teams to be considered better than us? I guess we should take it as a compliment, but I just find it annoying. Let me ask you this; in 2008, how many Wings fans went out policing the Hawks boards for any percieved slights to our status?

Also, the sense of entitlement for some of these fans even though they haven't proven a willingness to pay their dues. I don't mean supporting a losing team. In many ways it's much easier to support a team with no expectations. You can't be disappointed. I mean supporting a good team that loses when you expect them to win.

You talk about how much success the Wings have had in recent memory, but that is a double-edged sword. With that success comes the expectation of more success. Since 1995, our seasons have had only two possible conclusions: Cup or Failure. We might have the most successful team over that span, but at the same time we have also endured the most failure. We are invested in our team to an extent I don't think you really understand. Probably half the leauge would be ecstatic just to make the playoffs this year. For us the prospect of missing the playoffs borders on tragic. A first round loss here is an embarassment. Last year in Phoenix it was an epic achievement, even though they had home ice and could easily have been considered the favorite. When Pittsburgh and Chicago lost to us, fans took it as a moral victory that they made it so far. When we lost to the Ducks and Pens in the same circumstances, they were profoundly disappointing failures. Even when we won the Cup most of the talk around the league centered around the rise of the Penguins.

You all come here playing the victim because we don't idolize every Cup winner, demanding respect that you haven't earned. Maybe it's just the 'instant success' factor; you haven't had a chance yet to take your lumps, but you are willing to. Pens fans probably would have said the same thing, but their bandwagon seemed to empty pretty quickly.

Come back when the Hawks are eliminated. Make excuses, whine about officiating and injuries and bad luck and all the other things you do when you're frustrated because your team let you down. Listen to fans around the league berate you for those excuses, tell you your reign is over. Fans around the league hate the Wings and us fans. Every team has the Wings games circled on their schedule almost like a rival or defending champ. League marketing is even sick of us, and always looking for the next big thing to replace us as headliners. That's what we Wings fans have been doing for over a decade.

You don't deserve the thrill of victory if defeat isn't agony. You haven't shown that yet. Even now you talk about the Hawks struggles like it doesn't bother you, like you expect nothing, like you could walk away from a second round loss with your head held high. Success is wonderful, and much appreciated, but also a reminder of the greater success we've failed to achieve. Your success still leaves you a lot closer to Nashville than it does to us, and you haven't yet demonstrated any emotional investment in your team. Yet you have the gall to step into enemey territory demanding equality in our justifiably biased discussions. Un-*******-believable.

I will echo some of Electrophile's "THIS IS A RED WINGS FORUM" sentiment, just because fans of other teams shouldn't come here not expecting bias toward the Wings (i.e. excuses for a loss, and getting irritated at people waving their successes in your face), but also, since you bring up more sociological aspects of how people act (I think showing a logical view from our perspective), this forum has a very large number of bandwagoners too who are extremely quick to, and very readily, assail anyone who happens to screw up in the slightest bit, and react so quickly to the things that happen in the short term it can only be surmised that they have not been a fan for long at all to deal with the ups and downs teams have. I imagine if this team actually had a losing trend similar to the Hawks most would likely find another team, thankfully, or maybe focus on some other league like the NFL or NBA.

Only been able to skim responses but one stood out to where I think it said one poster didn't have a problem with bandwagoners, etc.

I'm pretty much the same way, and no matter how much people in here might not want to admit it, Wings fans have their fair share as well. And bandwagoners aren't necessarily a bad thing. You have to start liking a team sometime, and I started liking the Wings and watching hockey in the mid-90s when they were hitting their peak and good, does that make me a crappy fan since I started liking them primarily because they played well?

I don't care about bandwagoners, I don't get hot and bothered over fan chants and the like as long as they don't hurt anybody. Is "Detroit sucks" silly? Sure, but they could say thousands of things worse or degrading. Not worth getting too pissed off at. I went to Nashville for a game a few seasons ago, the game the Wings got slaughtered 8-0. Despite that, not one bad experience with Nashville fans. Now, do I think Tootoo is a scumbag and the Tootoo whistles are silly? Of course. But he's a fan favorite there and probably always will be no matter how much we think he is low, and I'm pretty much fighting a losing battle if I try to convince Nashville fans that he is dirty. Not worth getting hot and bothered over and the Tootoo whistles are part of the fan experience there. Cool, I have no problem with that. And I didn't have one encounter with Nashville fans acting over the top or harassing despite the big win.

Basically, just don't be a d**k towards other teams fans outside the stuff I just said or like I referenced in my original blurb about Chicago Bears fans being a'holes to Saints fans recently, and don't disrespect an athlete who did a whole lot for your organization. I know all Blackhawk fans weren't like this but it is a damned shame that Chelios had to correct them and tell them off, it should have never come to that.

EDIT: It's bascially stuff like this which makes me dislike Philadelphia fans, in all sports in general, fair or not. They always get a bad rap for just being a'holes when there is no reason to be one.

A lot of them are loser bandwagoners, or just really s***ty fans. What more can I add? I've been preaching this years before they even won the cup. The only thing more annoying is SWF starting this thread after all the times he's argued with me and other people here on this subject. It's funny.

I don't care about bandwagoners, I don't get hot and bothered over fan chants and the like as long as they don't hurt anybody. Is "Detroit sucks" silly? Sure, but they could say thousands of things worse or degrading. Not worth getting too pissed off at. I went to Nashville for a game a few seasons ago, the game the Wings got slaughtered 8-0. Despite that, not one bad experience with Nashville fans. Now, do I think Tootoo is a scumbag and the Tootoo whistles are silly? Of course. But he's a fan favorite there and probably always will be no matter how much we think he is low, and I'm pretty much fighting a losing battle if I try to convince Nashville fans that he is dirty. Not worth getting hot and bothered over and the Tootoo whistles are part of the fan experience there. Cool, I have no problem with that. And I didn't have one encounter with Nashville fans acting over the top or harassing despite the big win.

Basically, just don't be a d**k towards other teams fans outside the stuff I just said or like I referenced in my original blurb about Chicago Bears fans being a'holes to Saints fans recently, and don't disrespect an athlete who did a whole lot for your organization. I know all Blackhawk fans weren't like this but it is a damned shame that Chelios had to correct them and tell them off, it should have never come to that.

EDIT: It's bascially stuff like this which makes me dislike Philadelphia fans, in all sports in general, fair or not. They always get a bad rap for just being a'holes when there is no reason to be one.

Cleary you've never been to a game at the United Center vs the Wings. Especially since you're so surprised that Chelios was booed.

A lot of them are loser bandwagoners, or just really s***ty fans. What more can I add? I've been preaching this years before they even won the cup. The only thing more annoying is SWF starting this thread after all the times he's argued with me and other people here on this subject. It's funny.

K...

Nobody here outside of yourself is probably going to remember these things or care that badly about them, and I honestly don't care that badly as you, so calling me out about stuff they won't remember and that I really can't recall doesn't really establish much. If it makes you feel better, more power to ya I guess...

Cleary you've never been to a game at the United Center vs the Wings. Especially since you're so surprised that Chelios was booed.

Nobody here outside of yourself is probably going to remember these things or care that badly about them, and I honestly don't care that badly as you, so calling me out about stuff they won't remember and that I really can't recall doesn't really establish much. If it makes you feel better, more power to ya I guess...

No I haven't. Oh well.

Wow how incredibly wise you must be to say "nobody". What's so hard to remember? Do people forget Carmen slobbing on Crosby's knob in every one of his posts?

I'm just saying how funny it is that you always post stuff that is against even talking about how ridiculous other teams fans are, or that people shouldn't get worked up about it (usually in a pretty annoying way) and here you are starting this topic.

You also don't need to break it down for yourself, I'm just laughing at you.

Have I talked about "fans" and stuff in the past? Sure. Point out specific times that you and I specifically argued about such stuff. Provide documentation or sources. I'll be glad to retract or admit I was wrong or whatever, not afraid to do such things.

Wow how incredibly wise you must be to say "nobody".

Just a guesstimate actually, but I'm pretty confident that very few or nobody outside of yourself will care that badly.

What's so hard to remember? Do people forget Carmen slobbing on Crosby's knob in every one of his posts?

Sure people remember, probably because it's more recent or frequently lately.

I'm just saying how funny it is that you always post stuff that is against even talking about how ridiculous other teams fans are, or that people shouldn't get worked up about it (usually in a pretty annoying way) and here you are starting this topic.

You also don't need to break it down for yourself, I'm just laughing at you.

I don't blame Chicago fans for booing him. He's a total bulls***ter. He bashed the Red Wings and their fans for years. Even declared that he hated us so much that he would never consider playing for us. And then he latches on to the *** without batting an eye and joins a bitter rival. Screw him. He deserved it. Only good thing Hawk fans will do this year is boo him.

I don't blame Chicago fans for booing him. He's a total bulls***ter. He bashed the Red Wings and their fans for years. Even declared that he hated us so much that he would never consider playing for us. And then he latches on to the *** without batting an eye and joins a bitter rival. Screw him. He deserved it. Only good thing Hawk fans will do this year is boo him.

Go to some hawks message boards other than the officials and read the stories about this guy and tell me he didn't deserve to get booed. He was a complete travesty of a person. For those reasons alone he shouldn't be praised or honored.

Go to some hawks message boards other than the officials and read the stories about this guy and tell me he didn't deserve to get booed. He was a complete travesty of a person. For those reasons alone he shouldn't be praised or honored.

Lmao. Yeah, I'm going to go to a Hawks message board for an objective and thoughtful outlook on Chris Chelios. OOOOOOOOOkay then.

And hardly anyone went to those games, so it kind of validates the point he was making. If the Wings became a bottom dweller team again, I'm pretty sure attendance would drop significantly too.

The Lions are the Detroit team of choice we seem to go watch no matter what.

Comparing the NFL to ANY sport is like apples and oranges but I wonder how much only playing 8 home games has to do with the Lions attendance? Would the Lions still sell-out every game if they played 16 home games?

Thus, the hatred. It is just something that most Chicago fans share with all their sports. It is equated towards envy and the thing I say is...you don't have to like the Blackhawks if you are only going to think about another team or cities' economic standing to get by. Cheer on your squad, applaud your team. Do not boo quite possibly one of your best players of all time simply because he donned the Red Wings sweater. Probie (RIP) would walk around Detroit as a hockey god around here and played for Chicago. You really need to just check the source Wings fans. We cannot take it so seriously when a "fan" who just started tuning in around April 2010 wants to scream with Old Style streaming down the sides of their mouth "Detroit Sucks!" White Sox fans, Cubs fans (though not so much here), Blackhawks "fans", and Bears fans (possibly the worst of them all) really just have a sense of entitlement it seems to just try and kick our spirits at any point. I know many people who live in and around the area and the city itself is my favorite and I could not think of a better place to vacation for a weekend. When it comes down to it with their sports fans though, they cannot be taken seriously. Just let it roll off, ask them who was on their 2006 roster, maybe enlighten them on not having to go through the Wings to win what we call the "Holy Grail". It just doesn't mean as much to them. As it was said 11 is much better than 4 and thank God I was born into Hockeytown and to be apart the greatest sports fans in the world.

You know, the whole "Detroit Sucks" chant gets WAY over blown. Any real Hawk fan hates the fact that some of our idiot fans do that, but of course we cant help what they do, so it makes us look bad.

I just see it brought up a lot in arguments when unfortunately we have no control over it. Its not like EVERYONE does it, you can barely hear the 300 or so fans that do do it. Its really embarressing but WAY over blown IMO.