You are right- I apologize. It’s more analogous to how the Russian Orthodox treated the Samoyedic peoples in the 15th century, as they were fleeing the Mongol Hordes (very analogous- Samoyedic peoples in Siberia today have all the same social problems as Native Americans, the two taken together are a case study in what happens when a technologically superior nation removes culture from a tribe- the tribe either dies, or unemployment/clan fighting/alcoholism become rampant).

To what extent are the Knights of Columbus expected to view Christopher Columbus as a role model? I always think about the Knights of Columbus adopting the name of Columbus as a way of emphasizing to role of Catholics in the discovery and founding of America to a Protestant majority which glorified the role of the Pilgrims.

It’s been a while since I’ve been involved in KoC rituals, and as a Knight I am bound to secrecy, but I do seem to recall Columbus being acclaimed in passing at times. It made me uncomfortable, but like Daniel said it was a product of the times and I’ve never met any Knight who cared about Columbus or proclaimed his legacy. Still I think it’s high time we chance the name of the organization and expel the memory of that barbarian from our holy and charitable work.

Emma- the whole intent of the KofC was to create a Catholic substitute for the Masons, because back then, in New Haven, if you didn’t have a fraternal society to take care of your wife and kids after you died, they were sent to poor houses and orphanages.

I’m very involved in the secret ceremonies that Zeb refers to, and the qualities we are to emulate from Columbus are perseverance, evangelization, and leadership. Those are certainly the good qualities, as opposed to the bad. Quotes used are entirely from Columbus’ journals, which are of course public and can be read by anybody.

Venerable Fr. Michael J. McGivney is held up more as the hero of the order.

But one thing I’d point out is that there is a difference between the American and the Catholic definitions of the word liberty- and slavery as a condition doesn’t harm the second automatically.

The Jesuits did not “destroy” native cultures; their approach involved immersing themselves into a culture and finding whatever there was there to build upon. Not always perfectly, but they did do a better job of humanely evangelizing other cultures…

There’s a difference between pride of culture and lies. I’m all for pride of culture, as long as we don’t hide the truth.

I heard a Native American say once, “‘We hold these truths to be self evident that all men are created equal’ is a wonderful sentiment and idea. I don’t care that the man who wrote it owned slaves.” He didn’t hide the fact that Thomas Jefferson owned slaves, but he didn’t allow that to overwhelm his other qualities.

I don’t despise Christopher Columbus by any means; I wouldn’t be here if it weren’t for him. Literally. I would not exist. That doesn’t mean I have to approve of everything he did, and that doesn’t mean I have to portray him as faultless.

The truth is neither conservatives nor liberals have the right approach when it comes to situations such as this. Liberals don’t want any pride of culture, but conservatives want to hide the truth. Both are wrong.

Uh, great. He wanted to steal the gold in order to start a war…
Like it or not Columbus committed atrocities, not least kidnapping natives to take back to Spain on his first voyage. And cutting the hands off native laborers who did not produce enough gold, and a host of other crimes.

“The vices of a man are the vices of his time. His virtues are his own.”

Not sure who said that, but there is some truth to it. In a way, it’s easier for me to forgive Christopher Columbus for his actions, partly because I don’t feel that I’m encouraged to look up to him as a hero. He’s just another historical figure.

Also, as I pointed out, I think just as we have to examine Christopher Columbus in historical context, we also have to examine the Knights of Columbus (and the promotion of the Columbus myth) in historical context as well.

And the historical context, of 1882, was a Masonic/Protestant society using Catholic workmen as cannon fodder in industry. Know Nothings were rampant, and Christopher Columbus just happened to be a Catholic that the Protestants looked up to. It was all about fighting religious discrimination.

While one might want to think Columbus was a missionary, he wasn’t, so it’s patently unfair to hold him to the standard of a Jesuit. He was NOT a Jesuit, but an opportunist, an explorer, a man who desired money and fame and who, GUESS WHAT?, discovered America. That’s kind of a big deal. Catholic boy makes good!

But though his motives were demonstrably mixed, and absolutely he committed atrocities, there’s evidence to back the contention that Columbus WANTED to bring the Catholic faith to the New World. As Jesuit Fr. John Hardon, of blessed memory, wrote: “It is one thing to say that that Columbus discovered America. It is something else to realize that he opened the door to the most phenomenal spread of Christianity since the time of St. Paul . . . He was the destined herald of the true faith to half of the human race.”

So God writes straight with crooked lines and so it bothers us that He chose such a megalomaniac, flawed, weird and BAD Catholic to bring the faith to America? ha. Why can’t we accept that, o we church of SINNERS? If Jesus while on earth ate with the sinners, why wouldn’t he continue the tradition once back in Heaven? And to use such sinners, who loved the church as Columbus in his own idiosyncratic way demonstrably did, to open the New World to His love? Who are we to quibble with whom God chooses?

As for Fr. Michael McGivney, again, we have no idea what he was up against. Someone who today mentions the Masons as a threat is generally greeted with a self-righteous snigger or knowing smirk. But St. Maximilien Kolbe, not known for hyperbole, was very explicit about the menace that Freemasonry posed to the Church. This was a real battle, and required real men with courage and prudence to fight it. Fr McGivney saw Columbus as someone who could inspire Catholic men, and for that he should not be faulted. And given the endorsement of Fr Harden, it seems Fr McGivney was on to something.

God is glorified and praised in His saints, but also in His beneficence and obvious love for His more crazy creations, including the aforementioned Columbus, a real character. It might be highly offensive to us sensitive moderns, but hey, is that not the beauty of the Catholic Church, it encloses the world, filled with, um, sinners. Of whom I am the first.

“He was the destined herald of the true faith to half of the human race.”

I certainly wouldn’t go that far. It’s true that he did make it possible for the Catholic faith to go to the Americas, just as Caesar Augustus and the Pax Romana created the mechanisms for the spread of Christianity all across the Mediterranean. But I would certainly not call Augustus a herald or a forerunner of Christ.