I like your style. Stick around. You demonstrated civility and honesty. That's to be treasured. Now *learn* stuff. Aseptic put a great post together to help you

One thing to ruminate on is we *frequently* get people coming here saying 'You're all understanding wrong, *this* is how things are'. For a start, a number of us have devoted significant effort and time to thinking about theological questions, secondly *every* Christian / Muslim (we get a few) or other theist has *their own* idea of the right way. So not only do you have to show us that your plan is reasonable and right, you *also* have to beat out *everyone* else's.

For dessert, unsupported vague claims like 'scientists have found evidence for God (which might surprise you)' immediately raise red flags for me. If you *don't* support it, it's easily dismissed as kook pseudo-science *masquerading* as knowledge. *Get the knowledge*, then argue

PS. Telling people that *everyone* is wrong except you is the mark of the kook and the occasional genius. Occasional geniuses can be spotted by the fact that they don't exist (at least, relative to the number of kooks). Ergo, make this claim, and you *will* be laughed at Although not much 'cos a. you're young and b. you're nice.

Thank you morondog, and i see your point in full. I see where my brash young arrogance may have gotten the better of me. Its a flaw i try to work on by doing my best not to be wrong haha, although that probaby isnt the best way. And Aseptic seemed a little antagonistic to me as you will see in my last post in response to his. I see,(although a little too late), I may have retorted a tad harshly. I apologize in advance for that Aseptic, but I think i like the way Vosur addressed my post much better. There was no hint of insult or an attempt at undermining my post even if it was flawed at first. I will try to post more like that too, Thank you Vos!

No worries chap, guy like you will be chowing down on babies in no time, methinks Was a bit worried you'd be bleak I sorta called ya a kook, but you seem to have the self-confidence to handle it. Well done

Well its not like the attack squad would've done any damage. I mean in the end the facts spoke for themselves and we both agreed that my point was correct. No evidence against a things existence is just as strong an argument as having evidence that supports the existence. And that an Intellectual cannot honestly deny the possibility for God's existence. I'm satisfied.

As I expected, Peter does not even attempt to address anything Christopher said in his opening speech. He does not even attempt to explain how you go from deism to theism or why god was indifferent to the suffering of the human species for tens of thousands of years and tried to convince people of his existence by appearing to illiterate men in the desert a few thousand years ago. Instead, Peter Hitchens argues that those who do wicked things in the world do so because they fear no punishment from any kind of god in an afterlife, because they are practical atheists.

Unfortunately for him, this turns out to be a rather ignorant claim if we examine the history of our human species more closely. Were it not the most firm believers in the Middle Ages who persecuted the unbelievers and slaughtered them wherever they could find them and exploited those who were too uneducated and primitive to think for themselves? Were it not religious fundamentalists who crashed two planes in the World Trade Center
on 9/11? Is it not the case that the countries with the most inhuman laws today are also those who are the most religious? Of course there are many examples of atrocities and crimes committed by believers and non-believers alike - which is precisely the reason why it's a bad argument regardless of whether you use it against religion or atheism.

With that said, it appears that the only thing Peter can and does offer is an appeal to emotion. He proposes that one should believe in a transcendent being that governs the human race both in the here and now as well as in the afterlife not because there is actually any validity to the belief, but because it is beneficial to the individual and society as a whole. It saddens me when someone prefers his mental well-being and that of others to recognizing and facing the harsh reality as it is. It is wishful thinking.

Everything I said was just as valid. Only ingredient to the resulting lengthy debate was missing bits of the point I didn't put much effort into making, in part because I didn't even think it would get a response haha.