“Organic can have pesticides on them, as well as a higher risks of pathogens (the link you provided even indicates this in Appendix B)”

I don’t see where appendix b indicates either of these two things. The paper covers pesticides on fruits and vegetables without differentiation of organic. And no pathogens are discussed.

Please provide your evidence for your claim that organic food has “a higher risks of pathogens”.
From what i’ve read this seems to be based on a theory that using manure increases the risk of “pathogens”. In reality, organic food is safer because certified organic farms must follow rules on how they use manure. When applied, these practices reduce harmful bacteria.http://www.researchgate.net/publication/228028844_Produce_Safety_in_Organic_vs._Conventional_Crops
Conventional farms use manure without restriction. Also, feeding nitrates to crops (As in conventional farming) makes plants more susceptible to fungal growth.
Perhaps you can find some data to for us to examine regarding “pathogens”.

There’s an overall 81% lower risk or incidence of one or more pesticide residues in organic food samples compared to the conventional samples.
and
most residues in organic food occur at much lower levels than in conventional food
multiple residues in a single sample are rare in organic food but common in conventional produce
high-­risk pesticides rarely appear as residues in organic food, and when they do, the levels are usually much lower than those found in conventional food
and organic has:
higher mineral content
lower nitrate content
less antibiotic-resistant bacteria
higher Vit C
higher flavonoids, phenols
less mercury
more dry matter (more nutrients per unit weight of food)

I do agree with you that the “green revolution” has increased our food production, and we would be unable to continue to produce the amount of food that we do if we suddenly did away with pesticides and fertilizer. HOWEVER – as much as we apply them, we will benefit from directing resources toward more sustainable practices (all those that maximize our current knowledge of agricultural science: crop rotation, conservation tillage, pasture-based livestock husbandry, exploitation of natural biological cycles and controls, etc.)

if you’re not happy with the links I’ve chosen – I will do my best to meet your standards. However, I would ask that you likewise provide support for your own statements. More than once you’ve aksed me “where do you get this from?” So, I will ask you the same.

]]>By: rezistnzisfutlhttp://theness.com/neurologicablog/index.php/strike-three-for-multivitamin-use/#comment-62189
Sat, 21 Dec 2013 06:29:48 +0000http://theness.com/neurologicablog/?p=6158#comment-62189I don’t think you’ll find many people who would disagree that, ultimately, reduced pesticide use is generally a positive thing. However, it would only be positive if the outcome didn’t result in greatly reduced crop yields and inferior produce. The “green revolution” included the use of chemical organic and inorganic pesticides and is largely responsible for the significantly improved yields.
]]>By: rezistnzisfutlhttp://theness.com/neurologicablog/index.php/strike-three-for-multivitamin-use/#comment-62188
Sat, 21 Dec 2013 06:26:22 +0000http://theness.com/neurologicablog/?p=6158#comment-62188” Organics have much less pesticide residue”

Where are you getting this from? Organics use just as much pesticides as conventional crops, and you have yet to back up any of your claims of pesticide residues linked to health issues with any sort of scientific evidence. What little pesticide residue found on fruits and veggies, especially if they’re rinsed off, is a far cry from downing a bottle of it, or showering in it.

The only exceptions would be individual small farms that choose not to use any sort of chemical pesticides, but you won’t find that in most stores, and they can be found as certified organic or not.

Yes, of course you’re allowed to voice your concern, just like I’m allowed to challenge you on your factual claims, of which you have made many. If you’re going to post claims on a skeptical forum, especially wild ones that have little, weak, or no evidence supporting them, then it’ll be pointed out. Honestly, I’m not trying to be mean or give you a hard time specifically, but you seem to be misled on some things.

]]>By: Mlemahttp://theness.com/neurologicablog/index.php/strike-three-for-multivitamin-use/#comment-62187
Sat, 21 Dec 2013 02:56:34 +0000http://theness.com/neurologicablog/?p=6158#comment-62187rezistnzisfutl, I’m allowed to voice my concern. Organics have much less pesticide residue. Apples and strawberries are high on the list of residue. Strawberries are difficult to wash. If you peel the apple you lose a lot of the nutrition. You can’t wash off that which has accumulated in the fruit. Small children and people who have certain health problems should avoid eating pesticides. In my opinion we should all avoid eating pesticides. This isn’t a statement about agriculture – it’s meant as a helpful suggestion.
]]>By: rezistnzisfutlhttp://theness.com/neurologicablog/index.php/strike-three-for-multivitamin-use/#comment-62133
Fri, 20 Dec 2013 09:55:53 +0000http://theness.com/neurologicablog/?p=6158#comment-62133Mlema,

Organic can have pesticides on them, as well as a higher risks of pathogens (the link you provided even indicates this in Appendix B). Going organic is no guarantee of safety or even increased safety. Furthermore, you’re making the massive assumption that the amount of pesticides on fruits and veggies is linked to harm. The advisory the USDA lists in the article does mention rinsing as a precautionary measure, but nowhere does it indicate a diet rich in fruits and veggies puts anyone at particular risk of harmful pesticide exposure. As usual, your conclusions about foods don’t match your premises.

]]>By: Mlemahttp://theness.com/neurologicablog/index.php/strike-three-for-multivitamin-use/#comment-62129
Fri, 20 Dec 2013 08:44:11 +0000http://theness.com/neurologicablog/?p=6158#comment-62129TheFlyingPig, if you have high blood pressure lower your salt (sodium) intake. Also, make sure you are getting enough potassium every day. (magnesium and calcium may help as well)
foods with those minerals:http://www.nhlbi.nih.gov/hbp/prevent/factors/supls.htm

If people want to ensure they get enough vitamins and minerals in their diet, there are good resources online. I guess you could find out what your RDA is and then try to match it to your foods. Once you knew better what to eat and how much it probably wouldn’t be too difficult to practice long term.

Also, the more fruits and vegetables you eat, the more pesticides you eat. Please be careful everyone.

]]>By: TheFlyingPighttp://theness.com/neurologicablog/index.php/strike-three-for-multivitamin-use/#comment-62119
Fri, 20 Dec 2013 04:01:15 +0000http://theness.com/neurologicablog/?p=6158#comment-62119Another thanks I should add… I’ve given up multivitamins and melatonin thanks to Neurologica and SBM, but I’ve also become more concerned with my blood pressure. I have about 2 months to go on my fitness plan… lots of exercise, and a weight target. But because of these blogs, I’m taking multiple daily readings of my blood pressure because Harriet Hall mentioned that variable blood pressure is a risk factor for health issues like stroke (and following comments mentioned success at maintaining stable levels with medication). And I’ve seen the devastating effects of strokes… frightening. My blood pressure in general has been on a townward trend with weight loss, but now its variability concerns me. I’ll present data to my doctor and accept the possibility that blood pressure drugs might be the right thing even at my target weight/fitness levels.

The other health intervention I dropped was taking Melatonin. I took it to try to pull on my circadian rhythm to help me wake up earlier. Also, I thought it helped me fall asleep more quickly. But according to what I’ve read around here (and other research spurred by these blogs), it’s very unlikely the melatonin was doing any good. I still try to maximize morning light exposure and minimize evening light exposure… it seems reasonable to conclude that doing so helps to keep me waking up early, which is convenient for me.

Steven Novella is not telling anyone to stop taking their vitamins.
He is informing them that the evidence is that, unless you have a specific deficiency, taking vitamins is probably of no benefit.

If someone who is taking vitamins, reads this information and decides to discontinue to take them, the most likely result is that he will be neither helped nor harmed. There is a small possibility that this person has an unrecognised deficiency and that he will be harmed by discontinuing to take them. But there is also a small possibility that he has a condition where he will be saved from harm by discontinuing to take them (eg haemochromatosis)

(Similarly, if someone who is not taking vitamins, reads this information and decides to continue not to take them, the most likely result is that he will be neither helped nor harmed. There is a small possibility that he has an unrecognised deficiency and that he will be harmed by not taking them. But there is also a small possibility that he has a condition where he will be saved from harm by not taking them.)

So, let everyone decide for themselves whether or not to start taking or to stop taking vitamins. But let us not hide the scientifically derived facts from them. After all, we want them to make an informed choice don’t we?