To say this, Perry has to reject the work of tens of thousands of scientists working with evidence presented by reality, and instead accept an invisible, silent, actionless, imaginary man in the sky and this man’s ability to answer prayers.

The only way to believe in the “power of prayer,” given the direct evidence of its fallacy that we find all around us, is to put aside rationality completely and take a deep dive into delusion. These two videos can help you understand just how ridiculous the belief in prayer really is:

“I wouldn’t call it it cult but more of a corrupt action to suppress contrary evidence to foster economic gain.”

Ben,

What I’d really like to know is what you think about Perry’s failed prayer attempts to end the Texas drought.

on 23 Aug 2011 at 9:44 pm 3.Ben said …

“What I’d really like to know is what you think about Perry’s failed prayer attempts to end the Texas drought.”

I think the answer was not yet. When you grow up and have children you will learn that parents do not always say yes.

on 23 Aug 2011 at 9:59 pm 4.Lou said …

3.Ben said …

“What I’d really like to know is what you think about Perry’s failed prayer attempts to end the Texas drought.”

“I think the answer was not yet. When you grow up and have children you will learn that parents do not always say yes.”

I didn’t ask you the result of his prayer, that’s obvious.

But which are you saying – god’s answer is “not yet,” maybe later, or is it “NO!”

Ben the truth is there is no god that answers prayers, yet some people (you?) want a man who prays for rain to be POTUS? And yet somebody like you and Hor are concerned when Obama makes the “corpsman” gaff?

on 23 Aug 2011 at 10:11 pm 5.Observer said …

Is this nutcase above a troll? a garden variety idiot?

“I wouldn’t call it it cult but more of a corrupt action to suppress contrary evidence to foster economic gain. ”

Where is the corruption? Where is the economic gain? This is stupidity. Suppression of contrary evidence? Is this a reference to hacks supported by big oil whose grant proposals are rejected when they try to do previously completed research again, then call “FOUL” when money isn’t wasted to do the same work twice? AND where on earth is the economic gain of being a university researcher? You must be living pretty low to see this as the gravy train.

“Did you hear Gore go on his tirade as he continues to lose support? Numerous green companies going “belly up” since the economy is so poor. Wow, maybe it is a cult after all.”

That is the kind of disconnected thinking that is hard to reply to. Why is that you xtians so often appeal to majority? So what? The rabble rarely get it right. And how do so-called “Green” companies going belly up signify anything related to climate change?

And if you are going to say something self-consistently idiotic, like the market is telling us something about the aforementioned companies, you should first talk about market distortion related to the decades-old subsidies that have gone to oil and coal, as well as the structural and bureaucratic implicit subsidies those industries enjoy.

A final and more important question is why I bother wasting my time trying to elevate the xtian crowd on this website?

on 23 Aug 2011 at 10:17 pm 6.Observer said …

Ben- You comments imply that you have reproduced, and I feel sorry for your spawn. I know you lack the rationality gene and are not trustworthy, but if my child was dying of thirst, I would have no problem getting them a glass of water. If your “God” was real it would be one of the most putrid pieces of filth ever. On the other hand, if this “God” does torture the xtian filth anywhere, that is a good thing. My preference for such a high-minded “God” would be that it do something epic worthy of a Charlton Heston movie. If a plague were to take the xtians, maybe I would become a believer.

on 23 Aug 2011 at 11:32 pm 7.Burebista said …

“concerned when Obama makes the “corpsman” gaff?”

I don’t believe so that is just one stupid remark. Dan Quail anyone? How about these:

He promised unemployment would not go over 8% if stimulus passed.

The cash for clunkers debacle.

I will end the Iraq war.

I will close gitmo

Paying off Dems to get Obamacare passed.

Transparency is his administration.

Line item vetoes and doing away with earmarks.

Promising to spend only what we have.

Lobbyist will not work in my White House.

Obamacare negotiations will be on C-SPAN for all to see.

Bulldog VP Biden will see that not a single dime is being wasted.

Need more? there are pages and pages more.

on 24 Aug 2011 at 12:10 am 8.Lou said …

7.Burebista said …

“concerned when Obama makes the “corpsman” gaff?”

“I don’t believe so that is just one stupid remark. Dan Quail (it’s Quayle) anyone? How about these:…

Need more? there are pages and pages more.”

That’s your reply to my comment:

And yet somebody like you and Hor are concerned when Obama makes the “corpsman” gaff?

Unbelievable.

on 24 Aug 2011 at 12:33 am 9.godskingdomway said …

HI LOU!I WAS IN THE NAIL SALON GETTING MY TOES DONE THEN A EARTHQUAKE HIT.I LIVE IN BROOKLYN SO YOU CAN SEE WHY I WAS SHOCKED BECAUSE IN ALL MY LIFE I HAVE NEVER EXPERIENCED ONE.I WAS WONDERING IF YOU NOTICED IT AND HOW DO YOU FEEL ABOUT IT?

on 24 Aug 2011 at 1:46 am 10.Observer said …

godskingdomway I think there must be something to what the prophet Harold Camping was saying. Earthquakes will presage the end times. Maybe October will be the day when the dead rise? Is the rapture just around the corner? We have been in times of tribulation since WWI correct? It must be time for all these atheists to repent or burn in eternal hellfire and damnation! Guard the Tower!

on 24 Aug 2011 at 2:01 am 11.godskingdomway said …

what tower?lol.The watchtower name is because like watchtowers enable you to see from afar,the magazines show us the significance of world events in light of bible prophecies.No one knows when the end will come but jehovah not jesus or any human,but we do know what is supposed to happen before and trust there are more things then just the few you know of.Also the bible does not teach that hell is a place of eternal torment.This was a great misinterpretation on the behalf of christiandom.What prophet name Harold?There is not a prophet name Harold

on 24 Aug 2011 at 2:38 am 12.godskingdomway said …

As I read and watch some of the video and posts here ,I now understand that the problem here with all of you is not what the bible teaches, but it is what other people pretending to be christain and the propaganda of it all.I seriously feel that if you people were to forget all that christiandom has taught you, act as if you know nothing of the bible(which is true kind of)then I can gladly provide evidence for you about what the bible really teaches.Then once you understand the truth about prayer,satan,suffering,finding true worship,hell(which is not real in the way man has taught),subjection,jesus,our origin,etc then you can conclude based on what you have learned if science in fact coincides.Only science that has been proven factual.I know you can see that it is unfair to say you dont believe in something you have no idea of what the contents really mean.What better way to learn but from a form of worship that best seems to follow the bible.If you want to know what the bible really teaches then listen to thoses who honestly appear to you as the closest at following the bible!

on 24 Aug 2011 at 2:40 am 13.DPK said …

Yes, an earthquake is hardly a natural event and is definitely an indication that the end of the world is near. You should pack up all your things and move far, far away up into the mountain country and await Jesus’ return. Sell everything you own.. especially your computer…. and get far away from all us evil atheists. We will soon be on the hunt for babies to impale on spikes and virgins to rape and burn. You were right about everything…. now run!!!!

on 24 Aug 2011 at 2:55 am 14.DPK said …

12.godskingdomway said …
As I read and watch some of the video and posts here ,I now understand that the problem here with all of you is not what the bible teaches, but it is what other people pretending to be christain and the propaganda of it all.

Has the thought ever occurred to you that if the bible was, in fact, the perfect word of a perfect being, that it would be, well… perfect? We wouldn’t need you, or anyone else to “explain” to us what it “really” says… it would be simple and self evident. The fact is that even Christians can’t agree on what any thing actually says in the bible, but you are arrogant enough to come here and claim to have all the answers. Every religion has their holy book, and every religion claims it is the true work of god. They all have one thing in common, they are all wrong. The bible is nothing more than a convoluted collection of ancient fables and writings by MEN, embodying superstitious nonsense and ignorance. The only “meaning” you find in it is what you put there yourself… you really need to get over yourself. You do not have an inside track to god, because god is a human invention and is not real. Deal with it.

on 24 Aug 2011 at 3:40 am 15.godskingdomway said …

DPK said…”Has the thought ever occurred to you that if the bible was, in fact, the perfect word of a perfect being, that it would be, well… perfect? We wouldn’t need you, or anyone else to “explain” to us what it “really” says… it would be simple and self evident.”So you think that if a perfect book exsists with perfect answers and such you think that you can know what it says without reading it.Because thats what alot of people have done.They (like yourself) refuse to study it because they dislike what others have told them it has said.They believe it when people like pastors and such tell them that hell is where we are tormented if we are evil,and they dont examine for themselves.So frankly I am not trying to sound ignorant,but the bible has taught that there would be sects that would disown the one that brought them here (jehovah)to thier destruction.The bible said there would be false prophets so it is everyones job to search out the truth especailly if it is rumored to mean your life and that of your offspring.So how can you find out what form of worship is true?well like the bible says use your power of reason!If I gave you the job of finding real money would you study all forms of counterfeit?More likely not!You would study how real money looks so that you can recognise when someone gives you a fake.Like wise we can not study all religions of the world.So we have to learn the will of god.This stays the same in most beliefs.Once you understand what god requires then it is simple to point out who has done that to the best of their ability!you may wonder, but what of the religions that do not claim to believe in christ or the bible,how can you choose between those ?Well we can together see why the bible is vastly superior and a book like no other,one that should be appreciated over all others!would you like to discuss this?It is best to start from the ground to work our way up.So If you are interested then please let us go subject by subject!

on 24 Aug 2011 at 3:52 am 16.godskingdomway said …

I would gladly go over all the questions in the table of contents with you and provide satisfactory answers ones that are quite possible. but first let go all animosity then we will go in depth.Act as if you were a judge considering all the evidence without bias

on 24 Aug 2011 at 4:44 am 17.DPK said …

You are incorrectly assuming that I have not read the bible… I have. Have you?
Or have you only read the part that were spoon fed to you by your cult, with someone there to “interpret” for you what god “really” meant?

I see no point in debating you simply because I know that deluded people like you have a rationalization for everything…… Your mind is closed and you will not accept any possibility that does not mesh with what your preconceived dogma tells you you must believe. I know you will have some convoluted rationalization or mystical explanation for any logical challenge I offer.

Here’s proof…. will you admit that he god of the old testament proscribes practices and actions that are immoral? For example, does the bible say we should stone homosexuals and adulteress (and a host of others) to death… or not? Does the bible approve of slavery? Does the god of the bible condone genocide? Be careful, because I can quote you chapter and verse.

btw, you never responded to my other questions…. you said god only works in “natural” ways… are the miraculous events described in the bible not true?
And you said that god did not create Satan… then please, who did? And, since god has perfect foreknowledge, can he ever “change his mind” or is he powerless to act outside of what he knows already will happen? For example, the bible says that after the flood, god felt remorse for what he had done, and promised never again to flood the earth. How could god feel remorse?

on 24 Aug 2011 at 7:33 am 18.Severin said …

15 GKW
“So you think that if a perfect book exsists with perfect answers and such you think that you can know what it says without reading it.“

Sorry, I do not refuse to READ Bible myself, and I did it more than once.
I also would have nothing against „studying“ Bible, if I knew HOW, the hell, to „study“ it.

When I read in the Bible instructions for beating slaves, I understand it as instructions for beating slaves, I have no options within the Bible to „study“ this, to possibly understand it different way, and I disgust it instantly, because I do not support slavery, as Bible (and god) does.
When I read in Bible that a non-virgin bride must be stoned on her fathers treshold, how anyone expects me to understand it, but the way it was written? God directly iorders brutal killing, and that is it!

Bible is an ugly book, full of hate, and if a god wrote it, he was a lunatic maniac.
If he existed he should have been punished for his lunatic crimes.

on 24 Aug 2011 at 11:10 am 19.Curmudgeon said …

“will you admit that he god of the old testament proscribes practices and actions that are immoral?”

Yes, God does proscribe immoral acts. I will admit that. What is the point?

on 24 Aug 2011 at 1:38 pm 20.Lou said …

19.Curmudgeon said …

“Yes, God does proscribe immoral acts. I will admit that. What is the point?”

He didn’t ask you. He asked for godnutcase to answer in order to make a point about HER. Can’t you read and comprehend?

on 24 Aug 2011 at 1:41 pm 21.Lou said …

17.DPK said …

“btw, you never responded to my other questions….”

She doesn’t respond to most of the questions that anybody asks of her. She is all about c & p JW propaganda on this site and for her to demand that we answer her questions.

on 24 Aug 2011 at 2:39 pm 22.Lou said …

15.godskingdomway said …

“DPK said…”Has the thought ever occurred to you that if the bible was, in fact, the perfect word of a perfect being, that it would be, well… perfect? We wouldn’t need you, or anyone else to “explain” to us what it “really” says… it would be simple and self evident.”

“So you think that if a perfect book exsists with perfect answers and such you think that you can know what it says without reading it.”

Are you really unable to read and comprehend what he wrote?

Regardless, The bible is NOT a perfect book. It’s an imperfect and contradictory book full of myths, fairy tales, and out-right lies. And it’s so-called prophecies are no more meaningful than those of the daily astrology column. It’s amazing that we’re now in the 21st century and that there are still so many morons in the world who place so much emphasis and attribute so much significance to a collection of ancient texts that have been translated and edited for so long.

on 24 Aug 2011 at 3:21 pm 23.DPK said …

“19.Curmudgeon said …

“Yes, God does proscribe immoral acts. I will admit that. What is the point?”

Well, the point would be that that would be behavior incompatible with the concept of a perfect, purely good being……no?

Like the young student who was on here a few months ago who proclaimed “I’m pretty sure the Bible doesn’t advocate KILLING anyone..” It was pretty obvious that what she had been taught about the bible was straight up contrary to what it actually says about the nature of the god described therein.

So, we arrive back at the ancient problem presented by Epicuris:
“Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?
Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing?
Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing?
Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing?
Then why call him God?”

on 24 Aug 2011 at 3:32 pm 24.Severin said …

19 Curmudgeon
“Yes, God does proscribe immoral acts. I will admit that. What is the point?”

The point is: anyone who bases his/her life on immoral rules, is immoral by definition.

If you avoid immoral rules and pick the rules to follow by your own choice, you are a hypocrite, and that is immoral too.

I have no such dilemmas, I know exactly what is moral and what is immoral without need to avoid immoral rules imposed by hihg autority and to feel like idiot.

It must be very stressy to live such a hypocrite life!
I am sorry for you!

on 24 Aug 2011 at 4:59 pm 25.DPK said …

Sorry… my bad on the typo… naturally, I meant to type “prescribe” not “proscribe”…… I’m still on pain meds from my surgery……. shoot me.

D

on 24 Aug 2011 at 5:12 pm 26.Lou said …

9.godskingdomway said …

“I WAS WONDERING IF YOU NOTICED IT AND HOW DO YOU FEEL ABOUT IT?”

Considering that I live in the DFW area, no, I didn’t notice it.

I don’t have any feelings about it.

Why?

on 24 Aug 2011 at 6:33 pm 27.godskingdomway said …

First off god does not condone slavery the way you think.Your definition is when someone forces you to work for them in harsh conditions.Raping,killing,and beating.Is that what god said the isrealites could do?
Severin said…’Sorry, I do not refuse to READ Bible myself, and I did it more than once.
I also would have nothing against „studying“ Bible, if I knew HOW, the hell, to „study“ it”
Obviusly reading the bible as your coworker Dpk has said he has done ,is very different from studying.To study the bible is to often times refer to the original hebrew and greek scriptures to find definitions of certain words to shed light on meaning.As well as cross referencing scriptures,and lining your ways of thinking with that of the will of jehovah.You have said I do not answer all your questions!Let me tell you that I have, however since you guys refuse to read my long posts a highly believe that your not in the position to say that I have not,dont you think?Also as far as saying god commands brutal punishment you must understand perfect justice.Since the isrealites were gods holy nation because their fore parents were faithful thus their descendents had a good standing with god,when the isrealites sinned then they had to atone because the payment of sin was death.so they made sacrafices as ransom.Thus being forgiven.However all unrighteousness is sin but yet there is sin that does not inccur death(scripture)Jehovah understood the imperfections of man.So when the isrealites did some things wrong there were some judges who had been appointed to oversee certain cases.If they felt according to gods standards that the circumstances were not the fault of a person then they would give that person a punishment suitable for the crime.However there were things that were very clear not to do.Things such as fornication!so when people did these things the only payment for a sin such as that was death.Eventually jesus became the christ and we no longer need be put to death for sins because his perfect blood provided a everlating compensation.So it is as if everytime we sin we can sincerly repent and and be forgiven as if we were an isrealite who sacraficed an animal.Ihope you can understand the way I put it or perhaps I need to post it!so you wonder does god condone slavery?Well read this post,there are also many scriptures on how the isrealites were to treat their slave and you can see if this fits the definition of slavery you have been use to!You also said after the flood god felt remorse!Yes because he does not want to have to do what he does but it is a means, the only means to the end of wickedness.SEE god said to adam and eve if they diobeyed they would positively die.The only rule in the garden was to obey.However they did not.So they lost perfection,because to jehovah a perfect person is one who obeys by choice.So if God does not hold up his word that they should positively die all of us who sin then he would be a liar.Therefore we must reap what we sow.However jehovahs love for us provided compensation for us(the ransom)We no longer need to die for our sins as long as we follow his commandments(that are by the way perfect)we will keep being forgiven and following his laws and eventually be given the gift of everlating life.Remember my first post on the ransom in which someone said it was a ‘good read”

The Bible’s Viewpoint
Did God Condone the Slave Trade?
DARK sweating bodies bent almost in two shuffle up gangplanks under the crushing burdens of enormous bales of cotton. Ruthless overseers drive them on with rawhide whips. Screaming children are torn from the arms of weeping mothers and sold to the highest bidder in auctions. These are likely the stark, brutal images that come to mind when you think of slavery.
Ironically, it is said that many slave traders and slave owners were deeply religious individuals. Historian James Walvin wrote: “There were hundreds of such men, Europeans and Americans, who praised the Lord for his blessing, giving thanks for profitable and safe business in Africa as they turned their slave ships into the trade winds and headed for the New World.”
Some people have even asserted that God condoned the slave trade. For example, in a speech to the General Conference of the Methodist Protestant Church in 1842, Alexander McCaine stated that the institution of slavery was “ordained by God Himself.” Was McCaine correct? Did God approve of the kidnapping and raping of girls, the heartless separating of families, and the cruel beatings that were part and parcel of the slave trade of McCaine’s day? And what of the millions who are forced to live and work as slaves under brutal conditions today? Does God condone such inhumane treatment?
Slavery and the Israelites
The Bible states that “man has dominated man to his injury.” (Ecclesiastes 8:9) This is perhaps nowhere more evident than in the oppressive forms of slavery that have been devised by man. Jehovah God is not indifferent to the suffering that slavery has wrought.
For example, consider a situation that developed with the Israelites. The Bible tells us that the Egyptians “kept making their life bitter with hard slavery at clay mortar and bricks and with every form of slavery in the field, yes, every form of slavery of theirs in which they used them as slaves under tyranny.” The Israelites “continued to sigh because of the slavery and to cry out in complaint, and their cry for help kept going up to the true God.” Was Jehovah indifferent to their plight? On the contrary, “God heard their groaning and God remembered his covenant with Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.” Furthermore, Jehovah told his people: “I shall certainly bring you out from under the burdens of the Egyptians and deliver you from their slavery.”—Exodus 1:14; 2:23, 24; 6:6-8.
Clearly, Jehovah did not approve of ‘man dominating man’ through abusive slavery. But did not God later allow slavery among his people? Yes, he did. However, the slavery that existed in Israel was vastly different from the tyrannical forms of slavery that have existed throughout history.
God’s Law stated that kidnapping and selling a human was punishable by death. Furthermore, Jehovah provided guidelines to protect slaves. For example, a slave who was maimed by his master would be set free. If a slave died because his master beat him, the master could be punished with death. Women captives could become slaves, or they could be taken as wives. But they were not to be used for mere sexual gratification. The gist of the Law must have led righthearted Israelites to treat slaves with respect and kindness, as if these were hired laborers.—Exodus 20:10; 21:12, 16, 26, 27; Leviticus 22:10, 11; Deuteronomy 21:10-14.
Some Jews voluntarily became slaves to their fellow Jews in order to repay debts. This practice protected people from starvation and actually allowed many to recover from poverty. Furthermore, at key junctures in the Jewish calendar, slaves were to be released if they so desired. (Exodus 21:2; Leviticus 25:10; Deuteronomy 15:12) Commenting on these laws regarding slaves, Jewish scholar Moses Mielziner stated that a “slave could never cease to be a man, he was looked upon as a person possessing certain natural human rights, with which the master even could not with impunity interfere.” What a stark contrast to the abusive systems of slavery that mar the annals of history!
Slavery and Christians
Slavery was part of the economic system of the Roman Empire, under which first-century Christians lived. Hence, some Christians were slaves, and others had slaves. (1 Corinthians 7:21, 22) But does this mean that disciples of Jesus were abusive slave owners? Hardly! Regardless of what Roman law permitted, we can be confident that Christians did not mistreat those under their authority. The apostle Paul even encouraged Philemon to treat his slave Onesimus, who had become a Christian, as “a brother.”—Philemon 10-17.
The Bible gives no indication that the enslavement of humans by other humans was part of God’s original purpose for mankind. Furthermore, no Bible prophecies allude to humans owning fellow humans through slavery in God’s new world. Rather, in that coming Paradise, righteous ones “will actually sit, each one under his vine and under his fig tree, and there will be no one making them tremble.”—Micah 4:4.
Clearly, the Bible does not condone the ill-treatment of others in any form. On the contrary, it encourages respect and equality among men. (Acts 10:34, 35) It exhorts humans to treat others the way that they would like to be treated. (Luke 6:31) Moreover, the Bible encourages Christians humbly to view others as superior, regardless of their social standing. (Philippians 2:3) These principles are totally incongruous with abusive forms of slavery practiced by many nations, especially in recent centuries.
[Footnotes]
The fact that provision was made to allow some to remain with their master clearly indicates that Israelite slavery was not abusive.
Similarly, some Christians today are employers; others are employees. Just as a Christian employer would not abuse those working under him, disciples of Jesus in the first century would have treated servants according to Christian principles.—Matthew 7:12.

on 24 Aug 2011 at 6:52 pm 28.godskingdomway said …

See infact when you study the bible you would have understood why slavery by the isrealites was not the same as slavery of today.Also you must understand why wicked and good people can not coexsist.It sounds harsh but even though it is hard for us and most of all jehovah to accept is that the wicked are influenced by a strong will for evil that is thiers and satans.Take for example one nation surronding the isrealites knew they could not defeat the isrealites at war because jehovah would protect them so they devised a plan to send some women into the camp of the isrealites and influence them to worship other gods,and engage in many immoral acts so that jehovah would be have to discipline them.Also remember the account of Dinah,who was hanging around some canaanite women and shechem who was a wonderful man in the land of canaan but still not a worshiper of jehovah raped her.She was told to stay away from the land and she disobeyed.When she told her family shechem went with his father to talk to her family to ask for her hand in marriage.Two of her brothers told them only if every man in your land become circumsised then we will be together your land able to marry within ours and ours yours.THIS was a trick at night when all of the men in canaan had agreed to do it the two brothers took some other men and went into canaan and killed all the men.while they had been weak from the operation.This made jehovah very angry so he did not let the two sons descendents be apart of the 12 tribes of isreal.Instead josephs two sons gave birth to the last two tribes of isreal.Not to mention other punishment.So this is why we cannot coexsist.For one the wicked will always wage wr against us and try to influence us.We as imperfect are not above all the negativity.Eventually many will turn bad and those who stay good would be wiped out.So therefore jehovah must protect us.So the upright will be the ones to inherit the earth and find our delight in the abundance of peace till times indefinite

on 24 Aug 2011 at 7:25 pm 29.godskingdomway said …

severin said….”The point is: anyone who bases his/her life on immoral rules, is immoral by definition”

So you then can admit that if you want to pick and choose whats right and wrong, and everyone else has the right to do so as well, then everyones ideas would not match. creating conflict, especailly among those who feel that violence is ok when standing up for what you believe in.Such as soldiers.ALso you admit that Cyber bullying in some cases causes people to committ suicide and words used to degrade and belittle others are the causes of many people in depression and the cause of many violent acts.So then you must admit that if one uses such language and therefore condones it, then they infact have based thier life on immoral laws and therefore are immoral by default.Whereby the law of the bible says that the fullfillment of the law is that you love your brother and that one cannot say that he loves god who they have not seen if they are hating thier brother who they have seen.So the law of the bible say Do to others as you want to yourself.So infact whos laws are immoral by default and are the cause of unhappiness?The answer is mans.Jehovahs laws are that of one who knows that we are dust,fully aware of our capability and our tendency to make excuses and blind ourselves to our actions because we want to do what we want to do!

on 24 Aug 2011 at 7:56 pm 30.godskingdomway said …

Dpk,this was about you and I.nOT ALL OF YOUR BUDDIES AND I.So I wanted to start at the bottom and work our way to the top.Your friends will get thier chance.So what do you want to know? you said”Here’s proof…. will you admit that he god of the old testament proscribes practices and actions that are immoral? For example, does the bible say we should stone homosexuals and adulteress (and a host of others) to death… or not? Does the bible approve of slavery? Does the god of the bible condone genocide? Be careful, because I can quote you chapter and verse.”

The long post I made is in reference to these questions.You should now understand why people who do these things die and it is not unfair ,and you should see slavery that the isrealites did was not the same as today,that jehovah only causes death when it is punishment for sin to keep safe the good and also thier offspring suffer because of the laws he gave adam and eve.To think that there is still more to each subject and reasons why god does what he does but I dont want to overwhelm you.So I hope these shall finish the job

on 24 Aug 2011 at 9:20 pm 31.I believe in Him said …

23.DPK said …
So, we arrive back at the ancient problem presented by Epicuris:
“Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent.HE IS ABLE PREVENT IT BUT IS TRYING TO TEACH US

Is he able, but not willing?
Then he is malevolent.HE IS WILLING BUT WE NEED TO BELIEVE

Is he both able and willing? HE IS :)
Then whence cometh evil? EVIL IS AFTER THE RAPTURE

Is he neither able nor willing? HE IS BOTH:) :)
Then why call him God? BECAUSE HE DIED FOR US

on 24 Aug 2011 at 9:21 pm 32.I believe in Him said …

well he sent Jesus to die for US

on 24 Aug 2011 at 11:27 pm 33.godskingdomway said …

Looks like the christians have taken over this site.LOL.I havent heard from you guys.Did the boss say “lets stop answering her before she posts all the answer to our questions on here and we lose our jobs?”I dont mean to sound as if I want you to be jobless although a site such as this will mislead many.hahaha you guys!

on 25 Aug 2011 at 1:22 am 34.Lou said …

33.godskingdomway said …

“Looks like the christians have taken over this site.LOL.”

Look again. Even the other “christians” have apparently grown tired of your obnoxiousness. And I’m being kind with that description.

“I havent heard from you guys.”

Why do you think that is? You understand that you can’t participate in a discussion. Therefore, you compensate by c & p volumes of crap that probably most people don’t read. And when you do post something original, you demand that everyone reads your comments and answers them, but you rarely answer anyone else.

The truth of the matter is most us realized from the beginning that you are simply a nut. Even after a few people attempted to debate with you, it was obvious that our first conclusion was correct – you are a nut.

Before you gloat so much about your delusion that you, not the “christians have taken over this site,” you should realize that you haven’t taken over this “site” or won anything. You have only demonstrated that what most atheists think about theists, especially those who operate on the fringe in extreme, cultist religions like the JW, is true – that your religion is a fraud and a lie. Furthermore, you have probably alienated the other xtians who comment here. Even they leave the room when someone has to fart like you have in order to get attention. Once you leave, so will the stench, and most posters will return.

on 25 Aug 2011 at 1:25 am 35.Lou said …

31.I believe in Him (aka godsnutcase)said …

“Is he able, but not willing?
Then he is malevolent.HE IS WILLING BUT WE NEED TO BELIEVE”

Correct. You need to believe. You have an emotional or psychological issue that requires you to believe in irrational ideas. But believing in something doesn’t make it true.

on 25 Aug 2011 at 2:09 am 36.godskingdomway said …

Your saying that I am the writer name”I believe in him”.No I am NOT.i ASSURE you I am not.By the way I do ANSWER your questions you guys just dont read them because you want to stay in denial.I am not arrogant.However I think you guys need help because you have this never ending feeling to put someone down by calling them names.A cult is when others think another ones belief is sinister or strange(there is way more to the meaning of the word but i wont get into it).Its kind of hard for one to believe that jehovahs witnesses are sinister or strange if you barely know anything about us.But I guess the same can be said for you and your athiest beliefs, they are strange and most definetly sinister seeing how you guys post these things to mislead others into complete ignorance especailly those who have never read five pages of the bible in a row!I guess then by definition you guys are also a cult.Have a nice life Satan worshipers.Oh yeah and take your own advice just because you believe in evolution doesnt make it true!Have fun with your dellusional cult that follows the false worship of the hindus and mayans

on 25 Aug 2011 at 2:10 am 37.godskingdomway said …

Oh yeah that stinch Lou is your upper lip

on 25 Aug 2011 at 12:22 pm 38.Lou said …

36.godskingdomway said …

“Have a nice life Satan worshipers.Oh yeah and take your own advice just because you believe in evolution doesnt make it true!Have fun with your dellusional cult that follows the false worship of the hindus and mayans”

I rest my case.

on 25 Aug 2011 at 1:10 pm 39.Curmudgeon said …

“Even the other “christians” have apparently grown tired of your obnoxiousness. And I’m being kind with that description.”

True, but it is you Lou. You have this tendency to insult others to get a rise. GK was fine until she had to put up with your obnoxious rhetoric. The others just ignore trolls like you.

on 25 Aug 2011 at 3:07 pm 40.Lou said …

39.Curmudgeon said …

“True, but it is you Lou. You have this tendency to insult others to get a rise. GK was fine until she had to put up with your obnoxious rhetoric. The others just ignore trolls like you.”

Thanks, Cur. I knew some of the other xtians would come back. I’m not surprised that you are one of them. But, do you actually support her JW brand of religiosity? Does she represent what theists and xtains are or should be?

on 25 Aug 2011 at 5:19 pm 41.Lou said …

“A cult is when others think another ones belief is sinister or strange(there is way more to the meaning of the word but i wont get into it).”

Need more? I could c & p every word from every website I can find that supports the idea that JW is a cult.

To claim that JW isn’t a cult, one must be deluded, ignorant, or a liar.

“Its kind of hard for one to believe that jehovahs witnesses are sinister or strange if you barely know anything about us.”

I don’t think that all individual JWs are “sinister or strange,” but as a group and religion, they are.

on 25 Aug 2011 at 6:09 pm 42.Curmudgeon said …

“But, do you actually support her JW brand of religiosity?”

Nope, but I didn’t find her to be obnoxious and therein lies the key. I have no problem with other opinions. They don’t threaten me.

Curious, do you support China’s version of atheism?

on 25 Aug 2011 at 7:25 pm 43.Lou said …

42.Curmudgeon said …

“But, do you actually support her JW brand of religiosity?”

“Nope, but I didn’t find her to be obnoxious and therein lies the key. I have no problem with other opinions. They don’t threaten me.”

OK, I just wanted to be sure we are on the same page. That is, you think version of theism is right, but her’s is wrong.

“Curious, do you support China’s version of atheism?”

I not aware or familar with it. PLease elaborate.

on 25 Aug 2011 at 7:52 pm 44.Curmudgeon said …

“I not aware or familar with it. PLease elaborate.”

Sure you are Lou. Throwing people in jail if they are caught with a Bible. Killing preachers if caught preaching God to others. That sort of atheism.

Which version of atheism is right?

on 25 Aug 2011 at 9:29 pm 45.Lou said …

44.Curmudgeon said …

“Sure you are Lou. Throwing people in jail if they are caught with a Bible. Killing preachers if caught preaching God to others. That sort of atheism.”

Really? So there’s not really any organization for “Chinese Atheism?” I couldn’t find one when I was looking for a Dallas chapter. I found them for the JW, Scientologists, Mormons, Seventh-day Adventists, and the other usual xtian suspects, but none for the Chinese Atheists. That being the case, perhaps you could kindly direct me to some source for their creed?

“Which version of atheism is right?”

Oh, aren’t you so ever so clever and witty, but also so facetious. I assume that’s in response to my comment that you think you’re version of theism is correct, but the JW version isn’t. (But you do, right?)

The truth of the matter is that there are no “versions” of atheism, at least not in the context that you imply.

If the Chinese Atheists are in fact doing what you claim, then they aren’t doing it under the auspices of atheism anymore than does a Baptist murder an abortion doctor under the auspices of xtianity. Or do you want to claim that they do?

on 25 Aug 2011 at 11:01 pm 46.Curmudgeon said …

“Really? So there’s not really any organization for “Chinese Atheism?””

I’m not aware of a “Theist” organization but you still asked the question Lou.(sigh)

Your claim there is no versions of atheism? OK, how about between Buddhism, Taoism or Jain since you need to have an organization before you can answer a question? So, Which atheistic religion is right? If you are not familiar with their beliefs look them up.

I would think just as a human being you could denounce the atheist Chinese government but apparently their practice of atheism does not bother you.
When you attempt to silence all religious practices, a great sign you practice atheism. You do know the definition right Lou?

on 25 Aug 2011 at 11:35 pm 47.godskingdomway said …

I am wondering what part of JW you guys are talking abou that you simply do not agree with?I am also sorry Lou if you felt I was being a moron.I did let your accusations about me not answering all your questions and c&P BOTHER ME.hOWEVER WE ARE TAUGHT THAT WHEN PREACHING DO SO WITH A MILD TEMPER AND DEEP RESPECT.i SHOULD HAVE SHOWN EVEN MORE RESPECT FOR YOUR VIEW REGARDLESS IF YOU DISRESPECT MY GOD.Also if you guys have questions there is a 3 day convention for jehovahs witnesses starting tomorrow.It is open to the public it is untill 4 or 5,but you dont have to stay or go all three days.I just wanted to warmly invite you and all others to join us.We gather to specific assembly buildings.It is truely a joyess occasion.They discuss our beliefs,provide enlightenment on further info,we have lunch in a cafeteria all together,we witness baptism if you stay to watch during lunch,we also find husbands and wives thier.Its truely beautiful.If you guys are not sure what we believ or atleast why we choose to believe what we do,what proof do we have,then the convention is where you wanna be.We also have plays.You may also be able to speak with an annointed brother.Ask your local kingdom hall

on 25 Aug 2011 at 11:48 pm 48.Lou said …

46.Curmudgeon said …

“Your claim there is no versions of atheism? OK, how about between Buddhism, Taoism or Jain since you need to have an organization before you can answer a question?”

No, I don’t. But the answer to your question is that none of those three are forms of atheism. Your argument is simply out-right erroneous. If I believe in leprechauns, and if I’m atheist, then am I a Leprechaunian Atheist? Of course not.

“So, Which atheistic religion is right? If you are not familiar with their beliefs look them up.”

Oh, I see. Now they’re not versions of atheism, but now they are atheistic religions. None of them are “right” because none of them are forms of atheism.

BTW, I have a god-fearing, church-going, xtian acquaintance who has for years owned and operated a manufacturing business in China. He spends as much time, sometimes more, in China than he does at home in the US, traveling back and forth throughout the year. He told me many stories about his time in China, but he NEVER once mentioned those pesky Chinese Atheists. I wonder why that is?

Now, back to our JW friend. You don’t support her version of religiosity (xtianity?). Just for the record, is her version of god and xtianity wrong, and is yours right?

“I would think just as a human being you could denounce the atheist Chinese government but apparently their practice of atheism does not bother you.”

When they do the things that you mentioned, those aren’t a “practice of atheism.” When Muslims fight and kill xtians, is that a practice of theism?

“When you attempt to silence all religious practices, a great sign you practice atheism.”

So? That doesn’t it make it an “atheistic practice.” (BTW, there’s no such thing as an “atheistic practice.”) If an atheist practices square-dancing, does that make square-dancing an atheistic practice? Of course not.

“You do know the definition right Lou?”

I’m beginning to wonder if you’re not Hor, too.

on 26 Aug 2011 at 1:45 am 49.Anti-Theist said …

I truly enjoyed your response and its [vintage Lou] lack of emotion. I was beginning to wander if the the lambs had broken you.

on 26 Aug 2011 at 2:13 am 50.Mitch said …

Buddhism, Taoism or Jain

Officially all (3) of these beliefs systems do fall under Atheism. Atheism is simply the belief (or lack of) that there is no deity and these (3) along with some Hindu sects and Confucianism qualify as Atheistic belief systems.

on 26 Aug 2011 at 2:56 am 51.Lou said …

50.Mitch said …

“Buddhism, Taoism or Jain

Officially all (3) of these beliefs systems do fall under Atheism.”

Officially? Where do you get that?

Cur wrote that they are “versions” of atheism. They are not “versions” of atheism. As you wrote, “Atheism is simply the belief (or lack of) that there is no deity.” There is no other “version” of that. Furthermore, there is no such thing as “Atheistic belief systems.” There’s no more reason for you to capitalize atheistic than there is to capitalize theistic. You do that because you are trying to make atheism into something it’s not.

on 26 Aug 2011 at 4:54 am 52.Severin said …

45 Curmudgeon
“I’m not aware of a “Theist” organization but you still asked the question Lou.(sigh)“

You are not?
So, you are unaware of thousands of well organized churches in this world?
You personally are not a member of any church?

Atheists have no such organisations, but it would be good (and right) to have them.

on 26 Aug 2011 at 5:15 am 53.Severin said …

41 Curmudgeon
“Curious, do you support China’s version of atheism?“
45 Curmudgeon
“I would think just as a human being you could denounce the atheist Chinese government but apparently their practice of atheism does not bother you.“

It is sooooo trite!
We elaborated it so many times!
You must be desperate if you go back to „atheist Chinese government“ to say …nothing!

They are NOT atheists, they are COMMUNISTS, and we agreed already that communism = sort of religion; they rule and kill in name of an IDEOLOGY, which is not so far from theism.

No, atheists debating here do NOT agree and do not like Chinese way of governing. WE do NOT support their ideology and anything they do in name of their ideology.
IF they kill priests, we do NOT support it and would, if we only could, readily and gladly DO something to stop them.

But what else can we expect from you?
Didn’t you say you follow a god who proscribes immorality (#19)?

Yes, you did.

on 26 Aug 2011 at 10:22 am 54.godskingdomway said …

However despite that cur has said that god prescribes immorality WE have discussed why that is not true post 28 and 29 severin.So If atheism is the way to go why not kill all theists?Or perhaps put them in jail?

on 26 Aug 2011 at 12:28 pm 55.Lou said …

52.Severin said …

45 Curmudgeon
“I’m not aware of a “Theist” organization but you still asked the question Lou.(sigh)“

“You are not?
So, you are unaware of thousands of well organized churches in this world?
You personally are not a member of any church?”

I almost replied to that as well, but then, what’s the point? This what happens when someone has no other response except to play word games. I didn’t even mention “Theist” organization. But obviously, there are many theist organizations. I even mentioned them in the comment to which he replied.

on 26 Aug 2011 at 3:35 pm 56.Severin said …

53 GKW
“So If atheism is the way to go why not kill all theists?Or perhaps put them in jail?”

It is terrible to say something like that!
Is THAT the „phylosophy“ your religion teaches you: Who opposes us is against us, and who is against us is our enemy, and our enemy shoul be killed?!

Shame on you!

I personally, and any atheist I know, has no such ideas.

I wouldn’t kill a sparrow.

on 26 Aug 2011 at 3:41 pm 57.Horatiio said …

“If atheism is the way to go why not kill all theists?Or perhaps put them in jail?”

GK

Please do not say that here. We had one atheist here (possibly Lou or DPK)support jailing parents for teaching children about God.

That reflects the Red Chinese position pretty accurately.

I am very disappointed that the atheist here are casting their view of atheism as the only one. That is pretty intolerant on their part. LOL!!

You obviously missed our debate a few weeks ago.
WHO sent Jesus to die?
Didn’t he (god) sacrifice Jesus to HIMSELF? Very, very sick idea!
Allmighty god, who by definition had many other options to do something, if he didn’t like how people live, killed his own son to do …. WHAT EXACTLY?

To stop „sins“?
He failed. People „sin“ ever since.

To „pay“ for my/your/our „sins“?
He failed again, because I was told I will go to hell if I don’t believe in god, or if I kill someone, or if …whatever…

But stop with the arrogant “we” statements. You don’t speak for all atheists. Especially those in charge of the Red Chinese government or even the one here who supports jailing theist parents.

Take care babe

Have a great w/e guys/gals.

on 26 Aug 2011 at 3:50 pm 60.DPK said …

53.godskingdomway said …

However despite that cur has said that god prescribes immorality WE have discussed why that is not true post 28 and 29…

Well, I finally got up to guts to wade through posts 28 and 29 and have to say I’m not surprised. All you have presented is rationalizing BS… not a logical thought there. God approves of slavery but slavery is not what you think?? One human being owning another for forced labor is wrong, no matter if the slave is treated well or not. Not something a perfect being would condone… ever.
“For example, a slave who was maimed by his master would be set free. If a slave died because his master beat him, the master could be punished with death.”
But the bible also says that a master may beat his slave such that if he is able to get up in a day or two, and no punishment is due the master… does that sound like a loving god?
You seem to be content to answer basic logical fallacies with convoluted, illogical explanations and as long as you find some justification in your holy book, you turn off your brain and accept pure bullshit.
But ya know what… have at it…

on 26 Aug 2011 at 5:15 pm 61.Lou said …

59.Horatiio said …

“Especially those in charge of the Red Chinese government or even the one here who supports jailing theist parents.”

You’re like a dog worrying a bone with this Chinese business, Cur, I mean Hor. Were you once molested by a Chinese atheist?

on 26 Aug 2011 at 7:33 pm 62.Lou said …

57.Horatiio said …

“I am very disappointed that the atheist here are casting their view of atheism as the only one.”

And I’m disappointed that you are casting your views under more than one persona.

The idea that there are atheist religions is ludicrous. By definition, there cannot be a religion of atheism.

Compare the JV to the Baptists. Clearly, they are different versions of xtianity. But compare the alleged versions of atheism, and it’s obvious that there’s no difference. There are no different versions of the lack of belief in god. YOu either believe in god or you don’t. But there are different version of xtianity in how xtians view Jesus, the afterlife, etc.

The idea of different versions of atheism is just another one of many different ploys the theists like Hor use to deflect attention away from the weakness of theism – no evidence for their god.

on 26 Aug 2011 at 8:02 pm 63.nony mouse said …

Atheism is neither a worldview nor is it a religion. It’s a single belief about a single thing – that there aren’t any gods. There are no more multiple ways to not believe in gods than there are to not believe in unicorns, or not to collect stamps.

on 26 Aug 2011 at 10:29 pm 64.Lou said …

63.nony mouse said …

“There are no more multiple ways to not believe in gods than there are to not believe in unicorns, or not to collect stamps.”

OH, I BEG TO DIFFER!

When I’m not collecting stamps I focus on nature, the relationship between humanity and the cosmos, health and longevity, and wu wei.

My version, the Taoism version of not collecting stamps, is different than the Jainism version. Their version of not collecting stamps prescribes a path of non-violence towards all living beings. But just you try to not collect a stamp that they don’t collect, and that version goes out the window! They will violently force you to collect a stamp that you don’t want to collect!

on 26 Aug 2011 at 10:49 pm 65.Anti-Theist said …

Is hor posting under the alias ” Lou?” For post 63 lacked refinement.

on 26 Aug 2011 at 11:02 pm 66.A said …

I agree – Stamp collectors are delusional and they attempt to make everyone collect something that they cannot prove exists. Its time for the non-stamp collectors to unite with ads, websites organizations and PACs.

on 27 Aug 2011 at 12:36 am 67.godskingdomway said …

Dpk if you read the post I am 100 percent sure you are smart enough to discern that the punishments for maming slaves or killing them is as the law is if you kill someone in the US it is set as to keep you from doing it not say its ok just dont go as far as to kill them.Did you not remember what I said previously about the judges being appointed to oversee certain crimes to exact punishment accordingly.If an isrealite would have beaten a slave ,or raped the punishment for rape was death for beating proble banishment or whatever form of imprisonment they had.I know you could have figured that out your just saying things now to prey on the ignorance of those who wont read my posts.To make them think that my opinions are not worth considering!As for severin and I believe in him you guys should refer to the very first and second post I ever made here it was about the ransom and how it is perfect justice.A ransom is the exact payment or cost of something.Fittingly if the punishment for sin is death then we had to put something in place for our lives as a sacrafice.Thus isrealites used sacrafices of animals.They needed to do so often to compensate for all thier many sins.But when jesus came around (who is not God jehovah) his death was a huge one he was perfect and human.we no longer need to sacrafice anything we may simply repent honest heartedly upon the ransom and gain forgiveness and continue to serve jehovah.This is fitting.Please read the second and first post I made.Or would you like I repost it?Also he did not die to stop sin he died so that we may have a chance and everlasting life by being forgiven for sin.Thus once forgiven from sin and gaining everlasting life we gain perfection that will abolish sin.Only from those willing to follow the commands.Oh yeah I went to the convention of JW and the other two days have been reschedueled due to the hurricane.What do you think about the earthquake and right after the hurricane in nyc?

on 27 Aug 2011 at 12:46 am 68.godskingdomway said …

Lou said…”But compare the alleged versions of atheism, and it’s obvious that there’s no difference. There are no different versions of the lack of belief in god.”

Lou you MIGHT be right about no different forms of simply not believing in a creator but there exsists one seperating factor amongst athiests.That would even become sort of a new reason, like religion, for war and other problems.That seperating factor is that athiests although not believing in god, will not agree on what did cause the earth, and universe, as well as mankind to be.They will argue over evolution and natural selection as they do now!Only difference is that it will mean alot more to them.

on 27 Aug 2011 at 1:03 am 69.nony mouse said …

GK, unless you have some disability or some other impediment to doing so, would you please demonstrate a modicum of respect for your readers by the use of appropriate punctuation, including the use of white space.

Thank you.

on 27 Aug 2011 at 2:59 am 70.DPK said …

58.Horatiio said …
“Especially those in charge of the Red Chinese government or even the one here who supports jailing theist parents.”

You paint everything is black and white because you cannot think unless it is dogmatically. As I recall, the discussion about “jailing parents” centered on indoctrinating children with religious beliefs that could be considered abusive. Should Warren Jeffs be innocent of sexually abusing children because his abuse is shrouded as a religious belief? Should parents that teach their children to martyr themselves for Jihad be allowed to do so unchallenged because we must “respect” religious freedom? Should parents who withhold medical care from their children because of religious beliefs be immune from being prosecuted when their child dies or suffers injury due to intensional neglect?

Tell us Hor… do you think that a parent should be able to indoctrinate a child with ANY type of religious wackjob bullshit that they want to with complete impunity…. or does you cry for religious freedom only apply to YOUR religious beliefs? Or do you just make inflammatory statements without really giving any actual thought to what you are actually implying?

on 27 Aug 2011 at 5:30 am 71.Severin said …

53 GKW
“However despite that cur has said that god prescribes immorality WE have discussed why that is not true post 28 and 29 severin.“

„WE“ haven’t discussed anything in 28 and 29.
It was YOU who put a pile of bullshits there, then YOU, when no one answered, proclaimed it a „discussion“.

– „Raping,killing,and beating.Is that what god said the isrealites could do?“
Yes he did, and you know he did.

– „To study the bible is to often times refer to the original hebrew and greek scriptures to find definitions of certain words to shed light on meaning.“
Sorry, I expected god to write something that everybody understands.
I expected god to write something that everybody understands
I do not speak ancient languages.
Shall we all, who don’t speak Hebrew and/or Greek, throw away Bibles translated to our native languages?
Well, I would agree!

Do so, people!
A LOT of paper for recycling.

on 27 Aug 2011 at 5:38 am 72.Severin said …

27 GKW
„Things such as fornication!so when people did these things the only payment for a sin such as that was death.“

WHAT is „fornication“?
If I sleep with another man’s wife?

Should I be killed, or what?

on 27 Aug 2011 at 5:55 am 73.Severin said …

GKW 27
„So it is as if everytime we sin we can sincerly repent and and be forgiven as if we were an isrealite who sacraficed an animal.Ihope you can understand the way I put it or perhaps I need to post it!“

Sorry, I don’t understand it.
Does it mean: if someone kills a baby and sincerely repents, he/she will be forgiven?

HOW could I accept such immoral „rules“?
Such rules do not fit MY sense of morality.

on 27 Aug 2011 at 6:20 am 74.Severin said …

27 GKW
“ So they lost perfection,because to jehovah a perfect person is one who obeys by choice.“

If god created man, he should have known that it is in human nature NOT to be a „perfect person“, and NOT to „obey by choice“.
What did he (god) expect?
He FAILED to anticipate the very nature of his own „creation“!

What a stupid story! God creates something, fails, then punishes people for his own bullshit work.
Creating disobedient humans and expecting them to obey IS a bullshit work, isn’t it?

„Free will“?
Fine! God gave them free will, but failed to anticipate the results!
Pure idiocy.
An „allmighty’ who did not know exactly what he was doing!
Then he „regrets“ for what he did, and kills millions!

Or, if he DID anticipate the results, then he was a lunatic monster, who only played dirty and bloody games with people.
Either he FAILED, or he was a blood thirsty lunatic.
NO other explanation!

Oh, yes, there is!
Maybe he never existed.

on 27 Aug 2011 at 6:31 am 75.Severin said …

27 GKW
„But did not God later allow slavery among his people? Yes, he did.“

So, what is the purpose of these tirades of yours?

God DID allow/support slavery.
Slavery IS immoral.
Your god, if he ever existed, WAS an immoral god.

If he ever existed, of course.

on 27 Aug 2011 at 6:40 am 76.Severin said …

27 GKW
„The fact that provision was made to allow some to remain with their master clearly indicates that Israelite slavery was not abusive.“

What do you want with that?
Is there „good“ slavory“ and „bad slavory“, and you wonderful god supported only „good“ slavory?

Don’t you shame yourself by trying to justify EVIL, no matter where it comes from.

on 27 Aug 2011 at 6:51 am 77.Severin said …

27 GKW
„And what of the millions who are forced to live and work as slaves under brutal conditions today? Does God condone such inhumane treatment?“

WHAT with it?
I DO condone such inhumane treatment. I don’t need gods to tell me what is immoral and inhumane.
I especially don’t need a god who allows/supports slavery, to tech me morality.

I KNOW what is moral and what is immoral.
a)from my genes
b)from my parents
c)from society I live in

If some people had bad personal sense of morality (there are such people, of course), society prevents them doing crimes by threatening them with punishments (laws).
If someone does crime, society punishes him/her.
No gods necessary to rule the world.

on 27 Aug 2011 at 7:03 am 78.Severin said …

29 GKW
„So you then can admit that if you want to pick and choose whats right and wrong, and everyone else has the right to do so as well, then everyones ideas would not match. creating conflict, especailly among those who feel that violence is ok when standing up for what you believe in.“

I can pick and choose what is right and wrong from my common sense, and I will not fail, ever.
Many people have no such a „fine tuned“ sense of what is right and what is wrong.
That is why SOCIETIES make rules (laws) to prevent people doing wrong, and to punish people who were not prevented to do it.

Not all societies have same rules (laws) about what is O.K. to do and what is not.
In some countries you still have death punishment by stoning for adultery, for example.
In other countries you don’t have capital punishment at all.

But speaking of civilized countries, most of them have very good laws that fulfill the purpose they were made for.

What do we need more?

on 27 Aug 2011 at 7:08 am 79.Severin said …

GKW

Can you, please, point EXACTLY to Biblical verses that I, personally, could use as my life guidance?

I really read Bible more than once (not in Greek/Hebre), and could not find A SINGLE VERSE I could accept.

The ONLY verse in which love is mentioned to anyone but god, is the one about loving your neighbour, is also unacceptable for me.
My neighbour beats his dog, and there is no way I could love such an asshole.

NOW you may say you had “discussion” with me.

on 27 Aug 2011 at 1:54 pm 80.40 year Atheist said …

“atheism is to religion what not collecting stamps is to stamp collecting. Not collecting stamps is not a hobby”

It is amazing that highly paid Atheist philosophers such as Grayling, Dawkins and Pigliucci use such transparently useless and false analogies. Or maybe they just can’t come up with a real life analysis with evidence that actually provides a proof. It can be said that if these people had actual facts on the subject, they would be scientists; but they have only opinions, proclamations, and lots of attacks with denigrations of contrary opinions.

Having a God belief, proselytizing it and attacking other religions as your main function in both life and profession, that is in fact a religion. But there is much more in the way of comparison that can be made, and not phony comparisons but real comparison to the characteristics of religion: what makes up a religion.

What exactly constitutes “being a religion”? The internet has dozens, maybe hundreds of conflicting definitions for religion. Here is a fairly inclusive composite definition.

“Religion is a complete worldview.” Atheism fits the definition better than many.

Belief in nothing is a belief without proof, a leap of faith. And because self-validation is an act of Godellian illogic as well as a classical paradox, Atheism is a blind leap into illogic…the very definition of “religion” that Atheist’s love!

The answer is clearly “yes”, Atheism is, in fact, a religion. And it develops its own sets of rules to govern it. One such set is Secular Humanism, also legally declared a religion. Other rabid Atheist groups have their own sets of rules. So Atheism, the “anti-religion” paradox, and despite flimsy denials, is a religion. It is auto-pagan Narcissism.

on 27 Aug 2011 at 2:42 pm 81.Severin said …

40 year atheist
“Belief in nothing is a belief without proof, …”

Obviously, belief in god is a belief in something you can prove.
If oyu can’t, you automatically define yourself as an atheist.
It is your definition, not mine.

Finally someone who will give us proofs that god exists!

Will you, please?

on 27 Aug 2011 at 3:21 pm 82.DPK said …

Really? Let’s look at the actually definition of religion and compare how atheism fits the definition, shall we?

From Wiki:

Religion is a collection of cultural systems, belief systems, and worldviews that establishes symbols that relate humanity to spirituality and moral values.
Nope

[1] Many religions have narratives, symbols, traditions and sacred histories that are intended to give meaning to life or to explain the origin of life or the universe.
With the possible exception of using science to try to explain the true nature of reality… nope.

They tend to derive morality, ethics, religious laws or a preferred lifestyle from their ideas about the cosmos and human nature.
Nope

The word religion is sometimes used interchangeably with faith or belief system, but religion differs from private belief in that it has a public aspect. Most religions have organized behaviors, including clerical hierarchies, a definition of what constitutes adherence or membership, congregations of laity, regular meetings or services for the purposes of veneration of a deity or for prayer, holy places (either natural or architectural), and/or scriptures.
Nope, nope, nope and nope.

The practice of a religion may also include sermons, commemoration of the activities of a god or gods, sacrifices, festivals, feasts, trance, initiations, funerary services, matrimonial services, meditation, music, art, dance, public service, or other aspects of human culture.
Nope, nope nope and with the exception of perhaps an occasional lecture, debate or discussion group… nope.

40 year Atheist… sorry, your point… fail.

on 27 Aug 2011 at 4:06 pm 83.Hell Yeah said …

“The answer is clearly “yes”, Atheism is, in fact, a religion.”

So non-stamp collecting is a hobby?

on 27 Aug 2011 at 4:39 pm 84.DPK said …

And not believing in Santa Claus is also clearly a religion… as well as anything else you don’t believe in…
Hell Yeah… did you know that you are a non-unicornist?
With all the thousands of sundry gods lying on the dust heap of history that people no longer believe in, it boggles the mind how people are able to keep track of all the tens of thousands of religions they “subscribe” to. No wonder they have a hard time keeping a handle on it all.

Seriously, you “believers” are so warped in you deluded mindsets that you just can’t fathom anyone who can’t think dogmatically, like you do, so you insist on trying to pigeon hole us into some kind of “category” that fits with your own world view… like Jehovah’s whack job who calls us “Satan worshipers”. If we don’t accept the existence of your imaginary god, why would you think we would worship his equally imaginary nemesis? Ridiculous. And Horatio, who thinks we are out to imprison and execute him for his silly beliefs…. get a life!

on 27 Aug 2011 at 5:55 pm 85.Lou said …

80.40 year Atheist said …

“Or maybe they just can’t come up with a real life analysis with evidence that actually provides a proof.”

No, it isn’t. Religion isn’t a “worldview” and “worldview” isn’t a religion.

“Atheism fits the definition better than many.”

Complete and utter b.s. It “fits” neither definition.

The definition of religion has been changed in order for it to be used as a straw-dog of sorts.

The definition of religion as it appears in my 1976 edition of Webster’s New Collegiate Dictionary is:

1 a (1) :the service and worship of God or
the supernatural. (2) commitment or devotion to religious faith or observance b: the state of a religious

2: a personal set or institutionalized system of religious attitudes, beliefs, and practices

3: archaic: scrupulous conformity

4: a cause, principle, or system of beliefs held to with ardor and faith

Religion is not a “worldview.”

The answer is clearly “yes”, Atheism is, in fact, a religion. And it develops its own sets of rules to govern it. One such set is Secular Humanism, also legally declared a religion.”One such set is Secular Humanism, also legally declared a religion.”

Source for your claim that atheism has “legally” a religion.

The entire concept that atheism is a religion is simply another diversion from the obvious flaw of theism – there’s no evidence for god, and it’s entire concept is flawed.

It would SO SIMPLE for theists to once and for all completely settle the issue that theism is true except for one simple problem – it isn’t true!

on 27 Aug 2011 at 8:30 pm 86.nony mouse said …

A fanciful post-hoc reinterpretation of Lawn Boy’s manual shows a prediction that someone would try to conflate atheism with Secular Humanism in order to falsely portray atheism as a world view or religion.

Hence due to Lawn Boy’s prestigious powers of prediction, I am able to present the rebuttal before the argument.

The claim that Secular Humanism is a religion is examined in the following link. Theists, it seems, sometimes forget to include the latter discussion which negates their claim. None of this though, includes the Olympian leap of logic that redefines a lack of belief in gods as being Secular Humanism.

I say satan worshipers because satan has the tendency to trick people into doing certain things that originated from the worship of a god that is not jehovah.Even athiests are tricked into doing things that worship gods, such as yoga which is spiritism ,and holidays that originate with pagans.

So about the whole slavery thing, you can say untill you are blue in the face that jehovah allowed the ill treatment of slaves but that is not true. He implemented rules to protect them, and punishments for those who disobeyed.The same way man has created laws against it.Also you well know the bible commands given to moses to the isrealites .The famous ten as well as the other hundreds.So you well know that it was not condone by jehovah to rape,beat,steal,or murder anyone.The isrealites sometimes needed to go to war as self defense.They either would fight or die because satan greatly opposed them, and would have attacked them regardless if they did not fight back(in this case they would have been wiped out).But I noticed you guys need to know something about the isrealites.That is, why did they ever exsist?Well from the beginning once adam and eve sinned,Jehovah gave a prophesy.He said that he would bruise you in the heal and you would bruise him in the head.What did this first prophesy mean?It meant that jesus would be bruised by satan in the heal of his foot,but satan would be bruised in the head by jesus(SYMBOLIZING THAT SATAN WOULD KILL JESUS BUT HE WOULD BE RESURRECTED IN ORDER TO ONE DAY WIPE OUT SATAN FOREVER).Yes, jehovah had originally wanted perfect people(people who CHOOSE to obey him )to fill the earth.However once adam and eve disobyed, he began to think of a way that he could fix it to accomplish what he had originally wanted(For perfect man to fill the earth).Thus he always wanted jesus to be a ransom(a payment for sin so that we need not die in order to pay for our sins).So when he saw that now we all as humans would have to be born imperfect (because when adam and eve sinned they were imperfect.Imperfect parents could not concieve perfect children alone)he knew that we the children would have to suffer inherited death when our parents were told if they sinned they would positively die.He wanted to help us.So while he waited for this ransom person to be born at the right time to be around and born from the right people(like his apostles),he needed to establish a people who would know that jehovah was god so that they could teach this ransom person ,and also so that he would be born from ones that also worship jehovah.But who deserved the blessing of knowing and being jehovahs holy people when pretty much everyone was bad and wanted to do things thier own way like adam and eve?Well of course thier were people, atleast one and his family, that over the years stayed faithfull.Such as abraham,isaac,joseph.So rightfully the descendants of such ones should be blessed to be in gods favor and give birth to the messiah.So why did the isrealites do so many bad things while they were learning from jehovah?IS THE REASON THEY DID BAD THINGS BECAUSE OF WHAT JEHOVAH TAUGHT THEM?First these isrealites had every right to be gods nation, thier parents(abraham and such)were always faithful.Plus jehovah needed a people that worshiped him to teach this messiah some things before he got old enough to know himself.So these isrealites constantly needed to atone for sins.They were imperfect, and as jehovah originally said to adam and eve, if they disobey they would die.so the payment of sin was death.These isrealites NEEDED a sacrafice that could be the equivalent to what adam was.If we all gained sin through one man as the scriptures says then it would only be fair that a perfect man could gain it back.So this is why jesus needed to be born only from a woman and holy spirit so that he could come out perfect.Also he needed to live a excellent lifestyle serving jehovah perfectly,but if he is perfect he wont die without someone killing him.Therefore if he does not die then how will jehovah prove that a perfect person can live thier whole lives without rebelling(why is this question so important? because satan accused all men to be weak and give in under trial and temptation.To stop this from spreading to more angels then it already did jehovah needed to address the challenge)So jesus needed to live his whole life perfect and then die to prove this point.Now he becomes equal to adam and therefore capable of metaphorically buy us back from sin and death.So the isrealites they were simply means to an end.They had the purpose to simply bring forth the christ.Of course since they were jehovahs people they needed righteous laws to resemble that they are from a righteous god.However the bible indicates that jesus had known laws and he told his apostles that they were not ready to learn them yet.This is because we learn things gradually as to not overwhelm ourselves.The law given to the isrealites was always meant to be shortlived hence why when jesus came the isrealites could not accept him because of all the change that they had to make.Jesus told them that he is not the abolishment of the law(mosaich law)but the fullfillment(messianich law).This meant that what jehovah really wants us to do we are now fully capable of doing.Why are we more capable of doing jehovahs will now then before in isrealite times?Well for one we no longer need to sacrafice anything to pay for sins.We are not simply one nation living on the outskirts of society threatened by all other nations who force us into war.This is because the nation of isreal rejected jesus.Therefore jehovah created a new covenant with all those who accepted christ allowing those who were jews first to join rightfully.(thus we dont get into war and can obstain from it)Alot of the things the isrealites had done was not because jehovah told them too, but because they desired to be as the nations so badly that jehovah would compromise to make them happy.For instance they wanted to have a king like the nations, jehovah said that he was thier king however they wanted a human.He accomidated them.Only he would not bend so as to contradict himself or get in the way of his orginal purpose.It was always meant for a ransom to happen and always meant for christianity to take place as jehovahs flock the only thing about the situation was that jews had the right to be that flock.would they have changed thier names from jew to christian IDK but the laws would have been finished to fully resemble gods purity.All those acts that you consider to be immoral such as the wiping out of evil nations are not infact immoral because murder is when one human murders another however jehovah has every right to give us the punishment he chooses because he is not human but he is our creator and has every right to set all the standards and rules.If you create something (which is impossible because everything here god made it)you would have the right to say what your creation can and can not do and if it does not work in which you want it to work to the point of harming all your other obedient creation then you would have the right to abolish it.Especailly when you had told the creation ahead of time.Because abolishing it saves the many.It would be heartbreaking but you would have to for the benefit of the obedient.The isrealites had laws they were not ready for,they had enough laws to prevent them from wrong doing,they knew the punishment,They were simply the foundation of a perfect law.Capable of doing only as much as jehovah had given them.I hope this is in simple enough terms I tried to dumb it down as much as possible(not calling you guys dumb)

on 27 Aug 2011 at 8:47 pm 88.godskingdomway said …

scriptures to show you how slaves were treated.Only a few:But the seventh day is a sabbath to Jehovah your God. You must not do any work, you nor your son nor your daughter, your slave man nor your slave girl nor your domestic animal nor your alien resident who is inside your gates -ex 20 :10
ex 21:12 12 “One who strikes a man so that he actually dies is to be put to death without fail
16 “And one who kidnaps a man and who actually sells him or in whose hand he has been found is to be put to death without fail.
26 “And in case a man should strike the eye of his slave man or the eye of his slave girl and he really ruins it, he is to send him away as one set free in compensation for his eye. 27 And if it should be the tooth of his slave man or the tooth of his slave girl that he knocks out, he is to send him away as one set free in compensation for his tooth.
lev 22:10 “‘And no stranger at all may eat anything holy. No settler with a priest nor a hired laborer may eat anything holy. 11 But in case a priest should purchase a soul, as a purchase with his money, he as such may share in eating it. As for slaves born in his house, they as such may share in eating his bread
deu 21:10 “In case you go out to the battle against your enemies and Jehovah your God has given them into your hand and you have carried them away captive; 11 and you have seen among the captives a woman beautiful in form, and you have got attached to her and taken her for your wife, 12 you must then bring her into the midst of your house. She must now shave her head and attend to her nails, 13 and remove the mantle of her captivity from off her and dwell in your house and weep for her father and her mother a whole lunar month; and after that you should have relations with her, and you must take possession of her as your bride, and she must become your wife. 14 And it must occur that if you have found no delight in her, you must then send her away, agreeably to her own soul; but you must by no means sell her for money. You must not deal tyrannically with her after you have humiliated her
ex 21:2 “In case you should buy a Hebrew slave, he will be a slave six years, but in the seventh he will go out as one set free without charge
lev 25:. 10 And YOU must sanctify the fiftieth year and proclaim liberty in the land to all its inhabitants. It will become a Jubilee for YOU, and YOU must return each one to his possession and YOU should return each one to his family
deu 15:12 “In case there should be sold to you your brother, a Hebrew or a Hebrewess, and he has served you six years, then in the seventh year you should send him out from you as one set free
acts 10:34 At this Peter opened his mouth and said: “For a certainty I perceive that God is not partial, 35 but in every nation the man that fears him and works righteousness is acceptable to him
luke 6:31 “Also, just as YOU want men to do to YOU, do the same way to them.

The fact that provision was made to allow some to remain with their master clearly indicates that Israelite slavery was not abusive.
Similarly, some Christians today are employers; others are employees. Just as a Christian employer would not abuse those working under him, disciples of Jesus in the first century would have treated servants according to Christian principles.—Matthew 7:12.
, the Bible encourages Christians humbly to view others as superior, regardless of their social standing. (Philippians 2:3) These principles are totally incongruous with abusive forms of slavery practiced by many nations, especially in recent centuries.

on 27 Aug 2011 at 9:00 pm 89.nony mouse said …

GK, so much for asking you nicely to please reformat your posts. OK, let’s be blunt.

GK, your posts are a mess. Clear enough?

If you can’t be bothered to take the time to format them in a way as to maximize their readability, why should other people take the time to read them?

on 27 Aug 2011 at 9:07 pm 90.godskingdomway said …

I wanted to know what you guys thought about the earthquake then the hurricane?

on 27 Aug 2011 at 9:10 pm 91.godskingdomway said …

Nony mouse grow up this is not a midterm paper I need to give to my teacher.This is a blog.No one cares about how you dot your I and cross your T so please save it and talk about the subject at hand!

on 27 Aug 2011 at 9:11 pm 92.godskingdomway said …

Hope you guys stay safe during the storm!

on 27 Aug 2011 at 10:14 pm 93.Severin said …

GKW
“…isrelites…israelites…israelites…”

I am not an Israelite, and I don’t give a damn about what Israelites did or didn’t do 2000 or 3000 years ago.

What can WE, TODAY learn from your Bible, please?

What is a single verse from Bible I can use in MY life?

“Thou shall not kill”?
It was known 5000 years before Bible.
Aborigines knew it already when white race reached Australia, before they ever heard for Christianity. They had perfectly founded moral rules already!
How did so many great civilisations survive without knowing anything about Bible?

What ELSE could WE, TODAY, use from Bible to be better people?
What can I use from Bible to upgrade my personal moral code?

Point the verses from which I can learn something I did not know.

on 27 Aug 2011 at 10:33 pm 94.Severin said …

GKW

You keep justifying your god for his supporting slavery by trying to think up a sort of “mild slavery”.

Your god, as you kindly admited, DID support slavery, and nothing can “wash” him!
I can learn nothing from anyone who supports slavery.
I disgust slavery. All “sorts” of slavery, “mild” and “heavy” are totally repulsive to me.
ANY sort of limiting freedom of human being, slavery especially, is unacceptable for me, it is IMMORAL.

Your god, if he ever existed, was a highly immoral guy.

How can YOU accept and follow such an immoral (and stupid, and cruel) deity?

on 27 Aug 2011 at 11:15 pm 95.godskingdomway said …

this is because what you call slavery in the isrealites time was actually thier form of employment.They did not have currency amongst one another and did not maltreat oneanother if they did it was against gods law.I spoke of the isrealites because in posts to Lou and dpk they had asked me.So you wanna know wht can you use today to benefit yourself(of course thats what everyone wants to know “how can they benefit themselves?”)Here is three examples of man under jehovahs rule.1-No one will build houses or grow food and another man eat and live but they will grow thier own food and build thier own homes.This means no more profiting off of anyone else.2-Do not covet.This means the desire of your fellow mans things.3-Be content with sustenance and covering because the love of money is the road to many injurious things.It is much harder for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God then it is to fit a camel through a needles eye.
Also you said something about the Aborigines knowing that they should not murder befrore they ever knew of christianity.If you imply that these people exsisted before christians and therefore knew morals before the christians exsisted then you need to think more.Jehovah told cain and the other people living about murder and dont forget when he told moses about murder.This was from the beginning to about 1657 bce

on 28 Aug 2011 at 12:26 am 96.godskingdomway said …

How about when speaking with others to enlighten them on what you believe to be true, do so with a mild spirit and deep respect.That is one of jehoavahs laws.If you truely care for others and desire to awaken them this is a attribute we should always try to obtain.Is that good advice on how to live life?For someone who sees that the only way to have a perfect world is if you change yourself by putting up with others when they fail and to always put others ahead of yourself.Always thinking about your actions and how they hurt others that is jehovahs law.Of course these ideas do not make you richer or get you a girlfrriend so to many people this does not seem to be a good moral part of conduct that we should all try.Although many would say these are not important we both know that to ensure no one kills one another or steals,or anything else they first need to think of how thier actions affect others.You also said that I should not try to make excuses for a god that supports slavery.However jehovah does not support slavery .When the isrealites aquired slaves it was not because they went and kidnapped some people,it was because after going to war with a nations men (that would not leave them alone)they won the fights and out of consideration they did not leave the conquered nations women and children alone to fend for themselves.Another nation would have raped and killed them,so they took them along to thier home.Then gave them jobs to make thier own upkeep and would not maltreat them or force any woman into relations but would allow her grieviing time then request her hand in marriage.the truth made them stay.Also some jews would be slaves to other jews if they lost all they had and needed things.Jehovah instructed loving provisions for the poor.He told every jew that he could not pick up whatever he left or droped on the floor so that anyone who needed could come pick it up.He also told them to leave part of thier land with seeds unfinished so that the poor could glean from it.Glean means they go to that area and grow the food for themselves.So jehovah never told them to enslave others the way you guys keep saying or enslave anyone but allowing them to stay with the isrealites was a provision and a chance to get to know jehovah.Eventually the isrealites did turn further and further away from what jehovah had instructed so with advanced warning jehovah had to leave from before them and give the promise to a spiritual nation producing its fruits.The slavery you speak of was emplyment in thier custom and time and eventually with thier disobedience then it really (maybe)became slavery.Remember jehovah punished the isrealits many times for wrong doing so you cannot say that he supported it if he punished them.Show me where jehovah said that enslavement was ok.The jews did many things that were wrong and this does not mean jehovah told them to do it.You know jehovahs laws, tell me where he says something unjust.The parts about death for sin is just because he made that law in the beginning so dont say that.You told me severin that I should tell you what the bible says that is good for you to live your life by without mentioning you should love your brother.I did so you should answer my question as well without saying he kills people for sins

on 28 Aug 2011 at 1:12 am 97.Hell Yeah said …

“I wanted to know what you guys thought about the earthquake then the hurricane?”

Random movements based on natural laws. Weather patterns can also be effected by mankind poluting, which warms up the oceans and worsens random weather patterns.

on 28 Aug 2011 at 1:16 am 98.Hell Yeah said …

“Even athiests are tricked into doing things that worship gods, such as yoga which is spiritism ,and holidays that originate with pagans.”

So people that do yoga after work because they are trying to lose weight and get in shape are actually worshipping another god?

Christmas is actualy celebrated on December 25th because of the winter solstice festival by pagans that was around before Christianity decided it wanted to share that time. Christians decided to put Jesus’s birthday around that time.

on 28 Aug 2011 at 1:58 am 99.godskingdomway said …

actually birthdays are a pegan tradition and true christians do not celebrate it.The bible even gives indication that his birth was not in dec.There is no direct statement in the Bible concerning the month or day of Jesus’ birth. Where, then, did the date of December 25 come from? According to The Encyclopædia Britannica, some who called themselves Christians “wished the date to coincide with the pagan Roman festival marking . . . the winter solstice, when the days again begin to lengthen and the sun begins to climb higher in the sky.” That same reference work notes that many Christmas customs originated with “pagan agricultural and solar observances at midwinter.”
Would Jesus approve of the celebration of his birth on December 25? Consider: The day of Jesus’ birth is unknown. Nowhere do the Scriptures direct us to celebrate that birth, nor is there any evidence that early Christians did so. In contrast, the Bible provides the exact day of Jesus’ death, and he commanded his followers to observe that day. (Luke 22:19) Clearly, Jesus wanted emphasis to be placed, not on his birth, but on the value of his sacrificial death.—Matthew 20:28.
The month november/december is chislev in hebrew.The next was tabeth this was december/january.Chislev was known to have cold and rainy weather and tabeth saw the lowest temp. of the year.Even had occasional snow in the highlands.The bible writer Ezra confirms that chislev was indeed cold and rainy.After stating that a crowd had gathered in jerusalem”in the ninth month(chislev)on the twentieth day of the month.”Ezra reports that people were “shivering…on account of the showers of rain”Concerning weather conditions at that time of the year,the congregated people said themselves”it is the season of showers and rain it is not possible to stand outside.”ezra 10:9.jer 36:22.So the shepherds living in that part of the world made sure they and thier flocks were no longer outdoors at night when december came around!However the bible reports that the shepherds were outside tending thier flocks on the night of jesus birth.infact,the bible writer luke shows that at the time shepherd were,”living out doors and keeping watches in the night over the flocks”near bethlehem.luke 2:8-12.Notice that they were actually LIVING out doors,they had thier flocks out at night.They were not simply taking a walk but actually living.Does this sound like the rainy conditions of bethlehem in december?So the circumstances surronding jesus birth indicates that he was not born december.So who made dec 25 a tradition.Well the bible says “why do you keep overstepping my commands for the traditions of men?”It also says “Anyone liking or carrying on a lie will inherit destruction” so yes it was babylon the great or you can say false religion the false prophets who transromed this pagan holiday into christianity.However the bible sets us free to the truth.This is why I am here constantly trying to tell you guys that I understand why you fell the way you do towards god.It is because of all the false teachings of man covered up to look as doctrine.If I could make you severin,DPK,lou,nony mouse,Horattio,and all others see that the bible does not condone wrong doing and jehovah is the most high jesus is the son ,theres no trinity or hell to be tormented in,then perhaps you would let jehovah into your hearts.

on 28 Aug 2011 at 2:20 am 100.godskingdomway said …

(1 Timothy 4:1) However, the inspired utterance says definitely that in later periods of time some will fall away from the faith, paying attention to misleading inspired utterances and teachings of demons,
Yes this scripture indicates that false doctrines and teachings are the acts of demons so those who do these things regardless of being aware of them are infact under demonic rule.Now you guys see how deep this runs.
You asked He** yeah,if those just trying to use yoga as a means to lose weight is he worship of another god.Well it is worse it is actually spiritism

Yoga—Just an Exercise or Something More?
HAVING a slim and healthy body is very much on people’s minds today. This has caused many to turn to gymnasiums and health clubs for help. For the same reason, thousands of people in the Western world have turned to the Eastern art of yoga.
People suffering from stress, depression, and frustration have also turned to yoga for solace and solutions. Particularly since the 1960’s, the decade of hippies and flower children, has interest in Eastern religions and their mystic practices spread throughout the West. Transcendental meditation, a close adjunct of yoga, has been popularized by film stars and rock musicians. In view of the growing interest in yoga, we might ask: ‘Is yoga simply an exercise routine that will give the practitioner a healthy, slim body and some peace of mind? Can yoga be practiced without any religious overtones? Is yoga suitable for Christians?’
The Background of Yoga
The origin of the word “yoga” is related to that of the English word “yoke.” It can mean to join or yoke together or to bring under a yoke, to harness or control. To a Hindu, yoga is a technique or a discipline that leads to union with a great supernatural force or spirit. It has been described as “the yoking of all the powers of body, mind and soul to God.”
How far back in history can yoga be traced? Figures of people seated in various yoga positions appear on seals found in the Indus Valley, in present-day Pakistan. The Indus Valley civilization is dated by archaeologists to between the third and the second millenniums B.C.E., very close in time to the Mesopotamian culture. Artifacts from both areas portray a man, representing a deity, crowned with animal horns and surrounded by animals, reminiscent of Nimrod, the “mighty hunter.” (Genesis 10:8, 9) The Hindus claim that the figures sitting in yoga positions are images of the god Siva, lord of the animals and lord of yoga, who is often worshiped through the lingam, a phallic symbol. Thus, the book Hindu World calls yoga “a code of ascetic practices, mainly pre-Aryan in origin, containing relics of many primitive conceptions and observances.”
The methods of yoga were at first handed down orally. Then they were put into detailed, written form by the Indian yogic sage Patañjali as the Yoga Sutra, which remains the basic instruction book of yoga. According to Patañjali, yoga is “a methodical effort to attain perfection, through the control of the different elements of human nature, physical and psychical.” From its inception until the present time, yoga has been an integral part of Eastern religions, now particularly Hinduism, Jainism, and Buddhism. Some practicers of yoga believe that it will lead them to attain moksha, or liberation, through a merging with an all-pervading spirit.
So once again we ask: ‘Can yoga be practiced simply as a physical exercise to develop a healthy body and a relaxed mind, without any involvement with religion?’ In view of its background, the answer would have to be no.
Where Can Yoga Take You?
The objective of yoga as a discipline is to lead a person to the spiritual experience of being “yoked” to or merged with a superhuman spirit. But which spirit would that be?
In Hindu World, author Benjamin Walker says of yoga: “It may have been an early system of magical ritualism, and yoga still retains in its meaning an overtone of occultism and sorcery.” Hindu philosophers admit that the practice of yoga can give supernatural powers, even though they usually claim that this is not the ultimate goal of yoga. For example, in the book Indian Philosophy, former president of India, Dr. S. Radhakrishnan, says of the yogi that “control of the body through postures results in an indifference to the extremes of heat and cold. . . . The yogin can see and hear at a distance . . . Transmission of thought from one individual to another without the intervention of the normal communicating mechanisms is quite possible. . . . The yogi can make his body invisible.”
The image of a yogi sleeping on a bed of nails or walking on hot coals may appear to be a hoax to some and a joke to others. But these are common occurrences in India, as is the practice of standing on one leg while staring directly at the sun for hours and breath control that allows a person to be buried in sand for long periods of time. In June 1995, The Times of India reported that a three-and-a-half-year-old girl lay in a trance as a car weighing more than 1,600 pounds [750 kg] was allowed to run over her abdomen. To the amazement of the crowd, when she awoke she was totally unharmed. The report added: “It was sheer yogic power.”
Without a doubt, no normal human is capable of performing any of these tasks. Hence, a Christian must ask: Of what are these feats an indication? Are they from Jehovah God, “the Most High over all the earth,” or are they from some other source? (Psalm 83:18) The Bible is clear on this point. When the Israelites were on the verge of entering the Promised Land, which was occupied by the Canaanites, Jehovah told the sons of Israel through Moses: “You must not learn to do according to the detestable things of those nations.” What “detestable things”? Moses warned against “anyone who employs divination, a practicer of magic or anyone who looks for omens or a sorcerer.” (Deuteronomy 18:9, 10) These things are detestable to God because they are works of the demons and of the fallen flesh.—Galatians 5:19-21.
The choice of what physical exercise to pursue is a personal one. Christians, however, would not allow anything—be it bodily training, eating, drinking, clothing, entertainment, or something else—to mar their relationship with Jehovah God. (1 Corinthians 10:31) For those exercising simply for the sake of their health, there are many avenues available that do not involve exposure to the dangers of spiritism and occultism. By keeping clear of practices and beliefs that are rooted in false religion, we may look forward to God’s blessing of a righteous new system of things in which we can enjoy perfect health in body and mind for an eternity.—2 Peter 3:13; Revelation 21:3, 4.
[Pictures on page 22]

on 28 Aug 2011 at 2:22 am 101.godskingdomway said …

In the end yes even athiests are tricked into worshiping other gods especailly demons.With practices such as yoga one can only wonder what other hobbies do you have that have actually originated with the occult or hindus and other religions?

on 28 Aug 2011 at 2:25 am 102.Hell Yeah said …

“actually birthdays are a pegan tradition and true christians do not celebrate it.”

I know many true christians and every one of them celebrates their’s and everyone else’s birthdays. They even think the true meaning if Christmas is to celebrate the birth of Jesus. I personally think Christmas is just a winter family celebration, a reason to get the family together. And I personally think that birthdays are just the spot where the earth was in relation to the sun when you came out of your mother’s womb. It is just a fun day to celebrate your life every year.

————-

“Even athiests are tricked into doing things that worship gods”

Have you ever thought that maybe Christians and other religous groups are tricked into worshipping god(s)?

on 28 Aug 2011 at 2:31 am 103.Hell Yeah said …

“In the end yes even athiests are tricked into worshiping other gods especailly demons.”

Why would we worship demons? That would mean we would believe in the supernatural. Obviously, if the supernatural were real, then we would have a reason to believe in a god and therefore worship that god.

———-

“With practices such as yoga one can only wonder what other hobbies do you have that have actually originated with the occult or hindus and other religions?”

Or maybe religons originated from practices such as yoga or other things. People exercising and then adding a spirital part to it afterwards. I don’t think people started to believe in spirts which then gave them the idea to exercise. It is funny how you believers try to relate everything to stemming off of religion.

on 28 Aug 2011 at 2:49 am 104.godskingdomway said …

Particularly problematical is yoga-type meditation. Some may point to the fact that the Bible, too, encourages meditation. However, Christian meditation is an active meditation, pondering on upbuilding and beneficial matters. (Psalm 63:6; Proverbs 15:28; Philippians 4:8) Yoga-style meditation is something else. “The soul’s essence, pure intelligence, is obscured by mental activities, whose suppression is the main purpose of Yoga. The mind is to be controlled by constant practice of meditation and nonattachment to material objects. The ultimate result is the suppression of all mental tendencies, conscious or latent.”—The Encyclopedia Americana.
Is such emptying of the mind healthy? One practicer reports that during one extended period of exercise and meditation, he felt frequent attacks by invisible forces. The demons can take advantage of a mind that is empty and fill it with their own thoughts. (Luke 11:24-26) 24 “When an unclean spirit comes out of a man, it passes through parched places in search of a resting-place, and, after finding none, it says, ‘I will return to my house out of which I moved.’ 25 And on arriving it finds it swept clean and adorned. 26 Then it goes its way and takes along seven different spirits more wicked than itself, and, after getting inside, they dwell there; and the final circumstances of that man become worse than the first.
So beware! This practice could make you their prey
Some physical exercise, certain music, many games and various movies are entertaining and relaxing. But remember: Such things can also be a vehicle for unwholesome influences. Be alert and on guard against these. The Great Deceiver, Satan, may seem interested in your having a good time. But in the end, his influence will harm you. Do not let him into your home or into your life. “Oppose the Devil, and he will flee from you.”—James 4:7.

on 28 Aug 2011 at 2:54 am 105.godskingdomway said …

He**yeah please refer to post 99 and 98 because true christians would not celebrate things that are clearly lies only the members of false religion would.Please refer to those because you will find out why it is important and why what you have just said is invalid

on 28 Aug 2011 at 2:56 am 106.Hell Yeah said …

“Some physical exercise, certain music, many games and various movies are entertaining and relaxing. But remember: Such things can also be a vehicle for unwholesome influences.”

Could these things actually be the vehicle for people believing the supernatural? There are many ways people are mind-tricked into believing the supernatural.

on 28 Aug 2011 at 3:03 am 107.Hell Yeah said …

g**skingdomway, you have to be one of the most brainwashed people ever to post on this site. First off, I think it is funny that you can’t even say my name without putting *’s in my name as if hell is a swear word and you will go there if you spell it out. Second, if “true” Christains don’t celebrate birthdays, then there aren’t many of them out there. Could it be that atheists out number “true” Christians then? I guess that is why on your so called judgement day only a small percentage of the population gets saved. I bet all those other Christians that celebrate birthdays wish they hadn’t. By the way, isn’t it past your bed time? Church is early in the morning. I am glad I get to stay up late and sleep in.

on 28 Aug 2011 at 3:35 am 108.godskingdomway said …

LOL.Forst off to make accusations that I am brain washed even after reading the origin of yoga is pretty hypocritical of one who figured it was non religious.Also I can say the word hell I choose not to say it in the content in which you have placed in your name.Also the belief in hell as a place of torment is also part of false religion.The bible does not teach that false doctrine. if you read my last post you can see ultimately who is to blame for false doctrines.Also it is quite likely that athiests outnumber true christians there are only about 7 million of us so far.Also I stay up late every night I have that ability because it is not against god law to.Oh and as far as post 105 It doe not matter whether you believe in supernatural forces or not if you are an athiest would you celebrate christmas when you thought it was a christian holiday?No,so if you are an athiest it would be as if you were worshping a hindu god everytime you performed yoga.And according to the scriptures of the bible you would also be rendering worship to a demon if you performed yoga because we believe the only spirit force you can merge with during meditation is a demon.So why would it make sence for an athiest to perform such an act considering where it came from?The answer is because they were tricked into it or do you prefer I say that they simply were ignorant.Regardless worship is worship

on 28 Aug 2011 at 3:40 am 109.godskingdomway said …

also I did not say you were being mind tricked into believing the supernatural I said you were being tricked into rendering worship to a god of the hindus as well as into spiritism(I dont mean you personaly but people who practice yoga)So one can only wonder what other things originated from the worship of a god or the occult that you may consider to be normal day to day activity

on 28 Aug 2011 at 3:55 am 110.godskingdomway said …

The Bible’s Viewpoint
Who Are the Demons?
GHOSTS, ghouls, goblins, genies, demons are spirit entities that people of various religions believe in and view as malevolent, benevolent, or both. Other people dismiss belief in spirits as just a superstition or as a figment of the imagination. What does the Bible say?
The Bible teaches that the Creator himself is a Spirit and that his first creations were spirits. (John 4:24; Hebrews 1:13, 14) Further, the Bible mentions wicked spirits, sometimes referring to them as demons. (1 Corinthians 10:20, 21; James 2:19) But it does not teach that God created demons. Who, then, are they, and how did they come to exist?
“Angels That Sinned”
When God created spirit creatures, he made them free moral agents, able to choose for themselves whether to do good or bad. Sadly, after the creation of humankind, an undisclosed number of angels chose to do bad by rebelling against God.
The first and most infamous spirit to rebel became Satan. “He did not stand fast in the truth,” said Jesus Christ. (John 8:44) What moved Satan to turn against God? He began to covet the worship that belongs exclusively to the Creator, and then he acted on that desire by setting himself up as a rival god. In this way he made himself “Satan,” a word that means “resister.” Centuries later, prior to the Flood of Noah’s day, other angels joined Satan, forsaking their heavenly position to materialize in human form and dwell on earth. (Genesis 6:1-4; James 1:13-15) When the Flood occurred, the materialized “angels that sinned” apparently returned to the spirit realm. (2 Peter 2:4; Genesis 7:17-24) In time, they came to be called demons.—Deuteronomy 32:17; Mark 1:34.
The disobedient angels now found themselves in a very different situation from the one they had enjoyed before rebelling. Jude 6 reads: “The angels that did not keep their original position but forsook their own proper dwelling place [God] has reserved with eternal bonds under dense darkness for the judgment of the great day.” Yes, God did not allow the demons to enjoy their former privileges in heaven but consigned them to figurative “pits of dense darkness,” cut off from all spiritual enlightenment.
“Misleading the Entire Inhabited Earth”
Though evidently prevented from again materializing as humans, the demons still have great power and influence over the minds and lives of people. In fact, Satan, together with his demon hordes, is “misleading the entire inhabited earth.” (Revelation 12:9; 16:14) How? To a large extent, by means of the “teachings of demons.” (1 Timothy 4:1) These false teachings, often religious in nature, have blinded the minds of millions to the truth about God. (2 Corinthians 4:4) Consider some examples.
? The teaching that the dead are still alive. By means of apparitions, voices, and crafty actions, the demons deceive people into believing that the living can communicate with the dead. Moreover, this clever deception tends to give credence to the lie that a soul survives the death of the body. However, the Bible plainly states: “The dead are conscious of nothing at all.” (Ecclesiastes 9:5, 6) Having ‘gone down into silence,’ they are unable even to praise God.—Psalm 115:17.
? Anything-goes morality. “The whole world is lying in the power of the wicked one,” says 1 John 5:19. Satan and his demons exploit their power by using the media and other means to promote the evil notion that humans should give free reign to base fleshly desires. (Ephesians 2:1-3) Hence, immorality of every kind, including sexual perversions, is rife today. Such behavior is even considered normal, whereas Bible standards are often viewed as old-fashioned or narrow-minded.
? The promotion of spiritism. The apostle Paul encountered a servant girl possessed by “a demon of divination,” which enabled her “to furnish her masters with much gain by practicing the art of prediction.” (Acts 16:16) Aware of the source of her supernatural abilities, Paul refused to listen to the girl. Additionally, he did not want to offend God, who views all forms of spiritism—including astrology and appeals to occult powers—as detestable.—Deuteronomy 18:10-12.
Protect Yourself Against the Demons
How can you protect yourself against wicked spirits? The Bible answers: “Subject yourselves . . . to God; but oppose the Devil, and he will flee from you.” (James 4:7) We heed that injunction when we live by the teachings found in the Bible, the only sacred book that fully exposes Satan, the demons, and their “crafty acts.” (Ephesians 6:11, footnote; 2 Corinthians 2:11) The Bible also tells us that the wicked spirits, along with all who oppose God, will not be around forever. (Romans 16:20) “The upright are the ones that will reside in the earth, and the blameless are the ones that will be left over in it,” says Proverbs 2:21.
[Footnote]
Concerning the true state of the dead and the Biblical hope of the resurrection, please see chapters 6 and 7 of the book What Does the Bible Really Teach?
HAVE YOU WONDERED?
? Did God create the demons?—2 Peter 2:4.
? Can you speak to the dead?—Ecclesiastes 9:5, 6.
? How can you protect yourself against the demons?—James 4:7.
[Picture on page 21]
Demons try to influence people in many ways

on 28 Aug 2011 at 4:01 am 111.Hell Yeah said …

“Forst off to make accusations that I am brain washed even after reading the origin of yoga…..”

Aren’t you making an accusation that I only read your yoga posts and nothing before that?

———-

“I said you were being tricked into rendering worship to a god of the hindus as well as into spiritism”

Because one acts in a similar way to one that uses that same act to worship something, doesn’t mean that other person is also worshipping that same thing. The belief in that thing has to be a part of the act.

on 28 Aug 2011 at 4:04 am 112.godskingdomway said …

A World Without Religion—An Improvement?
THE new atheists envision a world with no religion—no suicide bombers, no religious wars, and no televangelists fleecing their flocks. Does that vision appeal to you?
Before answering, ask yourself this, ‘Is there any evidence that universal atheism would lead to a better world?’ Consider: As many as 1.5 million Cambodians died in the Khmer Rouge effort to establish a godless Marxist state. And in the officially atheistic USSR, Joseph Stalin’s rule resulted in tens of millions of deaths. Granted, those evils cannot be directly attributed to atheism. But they do show that the rule of atheism does not ensure peace and harmony.
Few would deny that religion has caused much suffering. But is God at fault? No! He is no more at fault than a car manufacturer would be for an accident caused by a driver using a cell phone. Mankind’s suffering has many causes, one of which is more fundamental than beliefs. The Bible identifies it as inherent imperfection. “All have sinned and fall short of the glory of God.” (Romans 3:23) This sinful inclination tends to foster selfishness, undue pride, a desire for moral independence, and violence. (Genesis 8:21) It also causes people to rationalize and to gravitate toward beliefs that excuse wrongdoing. (Romans 1:24-27) Jesus Christ rightly said: “Out of the heart come wicked reasonings, murders, adulteries, fornications, thieveries, false testimonies, blasphemies.”—Matthew 15:19.
A Vital Distinction
At this point, a distinction must be made between true worship—that is, worship that is acceptable in God’s eyes—and false worship. True worship would help people to fight against base inclinations. It would encourage self-sacrificing love, peace, kindness, goodness, mildness, self-control, marital loyalty and fidelity, and respect for others. (Galatians 5:22, 23) False religion, on the other hand, would tend to cater to popular trends—‘tickling people’s ears,’ as the Bible says—by condoning some of the bad things Jesus condemned.—2 Timothy 4:3.
Might atheism contribute to the same moral ambiguity or confusion? ‘No God’ means no accountability to a divine authority, as well as “no objective values which we are obligated to respect,” says law professor Phillip Johnson. Morality thus becomes relative, with each person determining his own standards—if he chooses to have any. No doubt such thinking makes atheism an appealing philosophy for some people.—Psalm 14:1.
The fact is, however, that God will not forever tolerate untruth—atheistic or religious—and those who promote it. He promises: “The [morally and spiritually] upright are the ones that will reside in the earth, and the blameless are the ones that will be left over in it. As regards the wicked, they will be cut off from the very earth; and as for the treacherous, they will be torn away from it.” (Proverbs 2:21, 22) The result will be something that no human, no human philosophy, and no human institution could ever bring about—universal peace and happiness.—Isaiah 11:9.
[Footnote]
A sound Biblical explanation for God’s temporary toleration of wickedness and suffering can be found in chapter 11 of the study aid What Does the Bible Really Teach? published by Jehovah’s Witnesses.
[Box on page 6]
GOD’S VIEW OF RELIGIOUS ATROCITIES
The land given to ancient Israel was inhabited by Canaanites, a depraved people who practiced sexual immorality—including incest, sodomy, and bestiality—as well as ritual child sacrifice. (Leviticus 18:2-27) The book Archaeology and the Old Testament states that excavations “have uncovered piles of ashes and remains of infant skeletons in cemeteries around heathen altars, pointing to the widespread practice of [child sacrifice].” The Canaanites would worship their gods through immoral indulgence and also sacrifice their firstborn to the same gods, says a Bible handbook. It adds: “Archaeologists who dig in the ruins of Canaanite cities wonder that God did not destroy them sooner than he did.”
God’s destruction of the Canaanites is a sober reminder for us today that he will not forever put up with evil perpetrated in his name. “[God] has set a day in which he purposes to judge the inhabited earth in righteousness,” says Acts 17:31.
[Pictures on page 7]
Both the religious and the irreligious have committed atrocities
Church support for Hitler
Skulls of Khmer Rouge victims, Cambodia
[Credit Line]
AP Photo

on 28 Aug 2011 at 4:06 am 113.Hell Yeah said …

godskw,
Please stop quoting the bible. By pointing out things said in the bible doesn’t make the supernatural real. The bible was written by the ancient rich so that the poor wouldn’t steel things from them or kill them. It is an anceint fairy tale book and using quotes from it will do nothing for us atheists. We will most likely skip over those quotes becasue we know they are all non-sense.

on 28 Aug 2011 at 4:09 am 114.godskingdomway said …

HE** YEAH SAID…”Because one acts in a similar way to one that uses that same act to worship something, doesn’t mean that other person is also worshipping that same thing. The belief in that thing has to be a part of the act.”

So if you take a christmas card and a chritmas gift to your family who believ in chritmas and you attend thier christmas party although you are an athiest this is not worship?yes it is.If you go to church although you are an athiest is this not worship?Yes it is.If I as a jehovahs witness were to sit in a baptist church and just watch to see what they learn this is still worship and jehovah would not approve.So yes despite if you believ in the hind gods or in satan it is still worship.If it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck its a goat?No its a duck!

on 28 Aug 2011 at 4:16 am 115.godskingdomway said …

He** yeah said…”The bible was written by the ancient rich so that the poor wouldn’t steel things from them or kill them”
Really this is shocking to me because I find it unlikely the rich would write about themselves in a somewhat negative light.For instance the bible says that the love of money is the road to many injurious things,also that it is hard for a rich person to get in the kingdom of god harder then fiiting a camal through a needles eye.Also it said that the persuit of money makes people stab themselves all over with many pains.Why would the rich want others to believe that it is harder for them to get into the kingdom?Why does the bible say that we should be content with sustenance and covering if the rich created it?

on 28 Aug 2011 at 4:18 am 116.Hell Yeah said …

“So if you take a christmas card and a chritmas gift to your family who believ in chritmas and you attend thier christmas party although you are an athiest this is not worship?yes it is.”

I don’t give christmas cards and I give gifts becase I consider it a winter festival celebration with family, not celebrating the birth of christ. I am not giving jesus a birthday gift.

————–

If you go to church although you are an athiest is this not worship?Yes it is.

What atheists go to church? I used to be a Christian until I went to college, and once I became an atheist (it took a few years to transition, it didn’t happen over night) I haven’t been to church since.

———-

“If it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck its a goat?No its a duck!”

It could be a human dressed in a duck suit. So if I started a religion where walking is worshiping my god, then that means every time you walk you are worshipping my god even if you don’t believe in my god?

on 28 Aug 2011 at 4:23 am 117.Hell Yeah said …

“Really this is shocking to me because I find it unlikely the rich would write about themselves in a somewhat negative light.”

Hmmm…I am sure they didn’t tell the poor that they wrote the bible to trick the poor into thinking that if they did good things they will get an afterlife. They wanted to make it look like a valid thing. If they told the poor they wrote it and if they put good things about themselves, then the poor wouldn’t believe it. Obviously the rich didn’t believe the things they were putting in it.

on 28 Aug 2011 at 4:29 am 118.Severin said …

94 GKW
“If you imply that these people exsisted before christians and therefore knew morals before the christians exsisted then you need to think more.Jehovah told cain and the other people living about murder and dont forget when he told moses about murder.This was from the beginning to about 1657 bce”

What was I doing?
I exchanged thaughts with someone who thought Aborigines did not exist 7000 years ago!?

Sorry, GKW, if I realized you were SUCH an ignorant, I would never pay attention to your posts.

LEARN, lady!
Good bye and good luck!

on 28 Aug 2011 at 4:31 am 119.godskingdomway said …

If the rich made it so the poor would not steal from them why was it able to say (before scientists ever had the ability to know)that the earth stands on nothing and that the earth is round?

on 28 Aug 2011 at 4:35 am 120.Hell Yeah said …

“why was it able to say (before scientists ever had the ability to know)that the earth stands on nothing and that the earth is round?”

It doesn’t take a genius to look up in the sky and see the moon and sun as round and think that maybe the large object they stand on is similar in shape.

on 28 Aug 2011 at 4:41 am 121.godskingdomway said …

severin i looked up the aborigines and http://www.survivalinternational.org/tribes/aboriginals says that they exsisted 45,ooo years ago shortly after the earth was formed I dont think this coincides with your theories of how old the earth is nor the idea of when they exsisted!This is fine do not pay attention to what I say but I bet to all who observe our conversations they would see regardless if they admit it or not the one to throw stones like the ignorant stone always lives in a glass house.By the way that remark about never reading my posts are ignorant in themselves

on 28 Aug 2011 at 4:43 am 122.godskingdomway said …

Wow so scientists later on could not simply look in the sky and make a hypothesis such as that for years but somehow clergy members did?Lol.Also that does not explain how they figured that the earth stood on nothing ie gravity!You seem to be grasping at sraws

on 28 Aug 2011 at 4:50 am 123.godskingdomway said …

The Worlds Oldest Inhabitants?
The word “aboriginal” means “the first” or “earliest known”. The word was first used in Italy and Greece to describe people who lived there, natives or old inhabitants, not newcomers, or invaders.

Australia may well be the home of the worlds first people. Stone tools discovered in a quarry near Penrith, New South Wales, in 1971 show that humans lived in Australia at least twelve thousand years before they appeared in Europe.

So far three early sites have been discovered in Australia, the Penrith one being dated about forty-seven thousand years old, a Western Australian site forty thousand years old and another in Lake Mungo, New South Wales, thirty-five thousand years old.

To put this in perspective, so that we can appreciate the time scales, since the first fleet arrived in 1788 there have only been 8 generations of settlers. On the other hand, there have been in excess of 18,500 generations of aboriginals!!!

Also thought you might want to see this opinion about the people you were talking about severin making what I said about them quite possible and your point about them invalid.See what I said about living in glass houses and casting stones!

on 28 Aug 2011 at 4:54 am 124.Hell Yeah said …

“Wow so scientists later on could not simply look in the sky and make a hypothesis such as that for years but somehow clergy members did?”

Scientists later on discovered the earth wasn’t “flat”, but a spherical shape. The bible only claims the round shape. Keep in mind, a pizza is round yet flat. Why, did you think there was a time in between when scientists didn’t know the earth was round? Besides, I am sure people were able to see the earth’s shadow as well to determine it was round.

————-

“Also that does not explain how they figured that the earth stood on nothing ie gravity!”

I didn’t think I needed to spell this one out as well, but it is the same thing as noticing the roundness. All they had to do was look up at the moon and sun and see they stood on nothing and were floating.

on 28 Aug 2011 at 4:54 am 125.godskingdomway said …

your view severin do not coincide with what was said at these websites.The websites do not even coincide leaving much room for doubt as much as you claim to be in the bible

on 28 Aug 2011 at 5:04 am 126.godskingdomway said …

he** yeah said…”Why, did you think there was a time in between when scientists didn’t know the earth was round? ”
I think you should answer this question.
Also how was it possible for these rich people to predetermin what king would conquer the babylonians by name.The bible mentions how and what king(king cyrus)conquered the babylonians.It is well known that this specific bible book exsisted well before king cyrus was even born how was this possible?Answer this question tomorrow It is 1:10 am and i cannot stay up any longer.

on 28 Aug 2011 at 10:42 am 127.nony mouse said …

GK, I wonder how much of your attitude, lack of respect for others, temper tantrums, poor communication skills, and your clear inability to think for yourself are explained by the following from the Pew Report:

70% of Jehovah’s Witness fail to achieve an education level past high school. That is to say that only 30% of your creed go on to college – the worst in the nation (you already said you are in the USA). Of that, 19% don’t even complete high school.

Only 6% of Jehovah’s witnesses complete college. The worst figure in the nation.

A scant 3% go on to post-grad level. Again, the worst figure in the nation.

Perhaps you’ve been convinced that education doesn’t matter. That Jehovah’s Witnesses are the worst educated segment in the USA is made abundantly clear by your presentation of yourself. It quite likely explains why you allow yourself to be told what to think and throw out canned questions as a way of avoiding dealing with the lack of evidence for your god.

In summary, you are underscoring the above by your brainwashed thinking and your astonishing lack of understanding of how others perceive you, and how that reflects upon the public’s perception of Jehovah Witnesses as a whole. So, carry on being rude, childish, and regurgitating the Watchtower tracts as you are doing a wonderful job of presenting yourself as yet-another brainwashed and uneducated member of a cult.

So, tell us, WHY are Jehovah’s Witnesses so poorly educated and what do you have against thinking for yourself?

on 28 Aug 2011 at 1:33 pm 128.Lou said …

126.nony mouse said …

“So, tell us, WHY are Jehovah’s Witnesses so poorly educated and what do you have against thinking for yourself?”

It’s that so many poorly educated are JW.

on 28 Aug 2011 at 2:39 pm 129.Severin said …

GKW
“severin i looked up the aborigines and http://www.survivalinternational.org/tribes/aboriginals says that they exsisted 45,ooo years ago shortly after the earth was formed I dont think this coincides with your theories of how old the earth is nor the idea of when they exsisted!”

Yoy confused something, as I never said when was the earth formed, but I will tell you now:

For your information, universe was formed from an enormeously big black hole some 13.7 billion years ago.
Earth was formed some 4.5 billion years ago.
First single cell life most probably appeared very soon after formation of earth, i.e. some 3.8 to 4 billion years ago, and did not change much for next couple of billions of years. The oldest compelling fossil evidence for cellular life has been discovered on a 3.43-billion-year-old beach in western Australia.
Paleontologists recently found fossils in Africa that indicate that multicellular life (procariotes, still existing as living species on earth) evolved on Earth 1.5 billion years before previously thought, i.e. some 2.1 billion years ago (not 600 million years ago, as previously thought).
Mammals appeared some 200 million years ago (oldest mammal fossil known).

Something that could be called MAN (pre-human species, but not apes) appeared about 4.4 million years ago.

Oldest known fossil of MODERN human being (creature that does not differ bilogycally from us)is some 160,000 years old.

So, if you consider the time from first life to today as one day (24 hours), modern humans exist about 3.6 seconds, and Aborigines came to Australia about a second ago.

Christ (if existed) appeared on earth a blink of an eye ago (0.05 seconds ago).

But, if you want, you can find all this for yourself (books, Internet) and read.
Learn, lady!

on 28 Aug 2011 at 2:41 pm 130.Lou said …

85.Lou said …

Correction: The definition of religion has been changed in order for it to be used as a straw-man (not straw dog as I mistakenly typed) of sorts.

on 28 Aug 2011 at 2:50 pm 131.Lou said …

87.godskingdomway said …

“I say satan worshipers because satan has the tendency to trick people into doing certain things that originated from the worship of a god that is not jehovah.”

Have you ever considered that Satan has tricked you into being a JW?

OH NO, that couldn’t be possible! You, just like all other theists, think that your religion is the correct one, but all others are false. All that’s required for any theist to accept that atheism is true is to disbelieve only one religion – theirs

on 28 Aug 2011 at 3:00 pm 132.Lou said …

80.40 year Atheist said …

“Belief in nothing is a belief without proof, a leap of faith. And because self-validation is an act of Godellian illogic as well as a classical paradox, Atheism is a blind leap into illogic…the very definition of “religion” that Atheist’s love!

The answer is clearly “yes”, Atheism is, in fact, a religion. And it develops its own sets of rules to govern it. One such set is Secular Humanism, also legally declared a religion. Other rabid Atheist groups have their own sets of rules. So Atheism, the “anti-religion” paradox, and despite flimsy denials, is a religion. It is auto-pagan Narcissism.”

40 year Atheist, I once read that a clear sign of the inadequacy of a position can be found in the misrepresentation or irrational exaggeration of the other side’s arguments. That perfectly fits your comments.

on 28 Aug 2011 at 3:14 pm 133.Severin said …

94 GKW
„If you imply that these people exsisted before christians and therefore knew morals before the christians exsisted then you need to think more.Jehovah told cain and the other people living about murder and dont forget when he told moses about murder.This was from the beginning to about 1657 bce“

Who is teaching you?
1657 B.C. Christianity did not exists!

The History Of China, as documented in ancient WRITINGS, dates back some 3,300 years. Modern archaeological studies provide evidence of still more ancient origins in a culture that flourished between 2500 and 2000 B.C., that is 4500 years from now back.

China is today a big country having population of about 19.3% of population of Earth, and growing.
China was NEVER a Christian country!
HOW did they survive without Biblical „morality“?

How did Aborigines not exterminate themselves without Biblical „Thou shall not kill“?
HOW did THEY know murder is immoral (and they obviously DID, otherwise they would not exist for 45000 years)?

How did Aztecs, Mayas, …, many other civilizations, survive for milleniums without knowing anything about Jesus and Christianity?
Egyptians were NEVER Christians in their history. They exist for some 6000 years!
HOW, if you know they never used Bible (they did not even know it exists)?

The least we can say for the Bible: it is obviously an UNENCESSARY book.

on 28 Aug 2011 at 7:24 pm 134.Severin said …

GKW

Finally, how do I know what is moral and what is immoral?
You may trust me that I perfectly know it!

My daughter (33) had never in her life contact with any religion, she even was not baptized! Yet, she perfectly knows what is O.K. to do, and what is not.
She is a wonderfull, kind, humorous and responible young woman, liked by everyone who knows her.

How is it possible without god, Bible, Christianity, Islam, or whatever other religion?

I know (and I ams sure you know too!) a lot of people who are very good people, all their lives, without believing in any god.

I know (and I am sure you know, too!) a lot of people who declare themself Christians, but are rotten in their hearts, and lie, cheat, steal, hate, kill…
If many Christians, many Muslims, many Jews, many atheists, are wondreful people, and other Christians, other Muslims, other Jews and other atheists are very bad people, what IS is the point of religion?
What is its purpose?

on 29 Aug 2011 at 1:38 am 135.godskingdomway said …

Well first I never meant 1657 bc, I said 1657 bce that MOSES finished writing genesis.However obviously people exsisted far long before moses.So when I mentioned this in reference to murder I was pointing out the fact that when cain killed abel, jehovah told them not to kill cain or they would suffer seven times worse and he also warned cain about the way he was thinking and acting towards his brother before hand.Thus since you can not say when exactly did cain exsist, but we know they were one of the first children it is very safe to imply that the aborigines and everyone else only knew they shouldnt murder from this situation.Also severin said”For your information, universe was formed from an enormeously big black hole some 13.7 billion years ago.”So what created the black hole?I bet you saw this question coming!Oh yeah someone also mentioned Something about JW and our education level past h.s. .Well first off there are only around 7 million of us.Second you should look up what kind of work we do at bethel.This is world class training that we dedicate in jehovahs service .if we are relieved of the work the experience helps us get really good careers.Also we have building projects (everything done for jehovahs witnesses are run by jehovahs witnesses. we hire no one else, simply volunteer work)we also have work were we learn sign language and 800 different languages to travel the world and minister.So even if your estimations of jehovahs witnesses are true(I did not bother to check)we are far from uneducated.We have building,writing,typing,language skills that we learn to contribute to jehovah. many of us christians go to bethel.Also nony mouse you
said “So, carry on being rude, childish, and regurgitating the Watchtower tracts as you are doing a wonderful job of presenting yourself as yet-another brainwashed and uneducated member of a cult.”I cant believe the things you say and you call me rude .I no longer want to discuss matters with you I would appreciate it if you no longer respond to me since you insist on being so horrible in conduct!Also severin I am very happy to hear you speak in that manner of your daughter. I am sure she is very kind,however we both do know that thier are people who are from various religions or no religion at all who are really good hearted people. jehovah knows this too, he sees the situation of everyone and he knows thier heart and can search thier kidneys and will give those according to thier deeds and heart.So yes plenty of people who have genuine good hearts will enter into the kingdom.The problem is that we cannot see the heart only jehovah and his son can.So we do know that there are some things we have to learn to LOVE to do in order that we get into the kingdom. the scriptures say that faith without works is inactive also (Galatians 5:19-21) Now the works of the flesh are manifest, and they are fornication, uncleanness, loose conduct, 20 idolatry, practice of spiritism, enmities, strife, jealousy, fits of anger, contentions, divisions, sects, 21 envies, drunken bouts, revelries, and things like these. As to these things I am forewarning YOU, the same way as I did forewarn YOU, that those who practice such things will not inherit God’s kingdom.
You see this is not simply about who you think is good or bad but this is about how all of mankind can coexsist happily and peacefully.Jehovah says that premarital sex is wrong because it causes pain .think about it!If you fornicate you risk disease,unwanted pregnancy,you might abort,or adopt,and that child would be hurt that thier parents gave them away,you can be heart broken. say you are a woman who loves a man that you slept with and became pregnant then the man has another one pregnant by coincidence.Then chooses to be with the other female.This would cause the woman pain as well as the child who will feel that the other family is more inportant to the father.What is a good outcome of premarital sex?You might fall in love and get married but cant you just skip sex and get married first.Now do you understand why these laws exsist.This is because he wants everyone to be happy ,this means each one of us has to be very careful of our actions.The only way to ensure that we dont go calling eachother names (because they hurt) is to eliminate those who refuse to conform.We should conform out of the greater good and love

on 29 Aug 2011 at 2:30 am 136.godskingdomway said …

severin you asked, “what is the point of religion?”say you are a baby sitter and I told you to feed,wash,and keep my baby safe.Then I come home you cooked for me a lovely dinner and I find you on your hands and knees scrubbing the floor.I say to you “wheres my baby?”.Then my baby comes to me hungry,crying of a broken arm, and dirty.Have you done your job?No!The point of religion is to teach those of what jehovahs will is,to teach them how we originated(because we all really desire to know),to teach us who is out there trying to harm us,how can we stay safe,will we ever be safe,who will save us,how can we be saved,what can we do,how does jehovah want to be worshiped.However false religion does not teach us this.They teach that when someone dies they go to heaven,regardless if the priest never even knew the person.They teach you that satan works for jehovah punishing bad people in hell making us believe that he is cruel.They teach us that we can pray in repitition even though jesus said on his sermon on the mount that we should not be like the pharisees and the hypocrits who pray the same things over and over again but they would only have a hearing for thier use of many words.They teach us that a priest can say seven hail marys and you are absolved when the bible says do not put trust in noble men to whom no salvation belongs.Also that you should not call anyone father(besides your dad)because your father is one and in the heavens.They teach us that when someone dies its because god willed it when the bible teaches that jehovah sent his son to deliver us from sin and death.They teach us that christmas is jesus birthday although it is not and is pagan in origin.They teach us that there is a trinity although jesus never gave a seizure namely that he is equal to god.Jesus also said that he was beside jehovah before the earth was.They teach us that we should pay for them to perform marriage or funerals or send collection plates around although the bible says that you get freely(knowledge of jehovah) you must also give freely.They teach us not to worship idols yet they have a cross and statues of saints thay pray to.They teach us the wrong way to pray many do not know that you must approach god in prayer through jesus name only (at the end of each prayer say a variation of in jesus name amen).They teach us to pray but dont inform us that if a man mistreats his wife his prayers can be hindered and that there are many things you can do to make jehovah not listen to your prayers.They teach us to worship statues but jehovah is superior because you can not find any material on earth to liken(represent)him.psalms 115: 4 Their idols are silver and gold,
The work of the hands of earthling man.
5 A mouth they have, but they cannot speak;
Eyes they have, but they cannot see;
6 Ears they have, but they cannot hear.
A nose they have, but they cannot smell.
7 Hands are theirs, but they cannot feel.
Feet are theirs, but they cannot walk;
They utter no sound with their throat.
8 Those making them will become just like them,
All those who are trusting in them.
9 O Israel, trust in Jehovah;
He is their help and their shield.
They teach us that you can pick and choose beliefs and conform the bible to what you want and justify horror.So many things.I feel its only fair to first allow one to learn what the bible really teaches before they can dismiss it as untrue.As we previously said there is a large difference from reading and studying the bible

on 29 Aug 2011 at 2:46 am 137.godskingdomway said …

I do not blame you guys for not believing in a creator.Satan has blinded the minds of the unbelievers when he came in the night and put weed on the wheat that jesus had sown.Now they grow together resembling eachother but jesus said that they should grow together then at the end all the wheed will be gathered and burned.Satan is concealing the the eyes of the whole world so that the illumination of the christ might not shine through.I only ask that you consider what one whos form of worship coincides with the bible then make your final decision.A good choice is only based on all the information and the correct information.If then you say you still dont believ then it is left to your heart condition.I will speak to you guys tomorrow!Good night.

on 29 Aug 2011 at 3:37 am 138.DPK said …

Oh please… don’t.

on 29 Aug 2011 at 3:07 pm 139.Horatiio said …

40 year Atheist

You get the title for the most unique moniker

Atheism does fall under many of the available definitions of religion. The deniers pick and choose, of course. . I’m glad to see you have come to terms with the reality.

High Preist? Yes

First principles? Yes

Purpose of Life? Yes, randomness

Afterlife? Yes, worms

The Sacrosanct? Yes

Statement of Faith? Yes, non-negotiable

Heresy? Yes, definitely.

Morality? Yes, stolen from other beliefs or personal opinion.

Evil? Yes

Its all there 40 year.

on 29 Aug 2011 at 4:09 pm 140.Lou said …

139.Horatiio said …

“40 year Atheist

You get the title for the most unique moniker”

More unique than all of yours?

“Atheism does fall under many of the available definitions of religion. The deniers pick and choose, of course. .”

As opposed to your lies about how atheism meets a set of random qualifiers that you “pick and choose, of course,” for religion.

When all else fails, stick to the conviction that theism promotes – lie.

“I’m glad to see you have come to terms with the reality.”

When can we say the same for you, if ever?

Oh, and by the way, where is your evidence for god? The REALITY is you don’t have any. That’s why you continue to lie about atheism.

on 29 Aug 2011 at 4:52 pm 141.DPK said …

“138.Horatiio said …
40 year Atheist
You get the title for the most unique moniker”

Didn’t know there were degrees of uniqueness.

Atheism does fall under many of the available definitions of religion…

High Preist? Yes………. Who might this be?

First principles? Yes….. They are?

Purpose of Life? Yes, randomness…. Seriously?

Afterlife? Yes, worms….. if that qualifies as “life” you’re even nuttier than I thought.

The Sacrosanct? Yes……. again, that would be?

Statement of Faith? Yes, non-negotiable…. faith in what?

Heresy? Yes, definitely…. Heresy is defying church teachings… so what would qualify?

Morality? Yes, stolen from other beliefs or personal opinion…. doesn’t this fit the concept of morality for everyone?

Evil? Yes…. So acknowledging that some acts are evil and others are good make you religious?

Hor, you have indeed sunk to a new low of stupidity with this post. You position is so weak that now you have to completely fabricate points in an effort to not look totally ridiculous? It didn’t work.
oh yeah, LOL

on 30 Aug 2011 at 4:10 am 142.Jake said …

Republicans want a society based on christian mythology. Democrats believe they can elevate the weak by tearing down the strong, taxing and spending their way to utopia. Both theories are absurd.

We need a viable third option, and quickly, or the USA is screwed.

on 30 Aug 2011 at 4:58 pm 143.Severin said …

GKW
“…say you are a baby sitter and I told you to feed,wash,and keep my baby safe….’

Without “say”:
When I was a student, I was baby sitting for money, 2 children in age of 2, for some 4-5 months.
Before I married (some 40 years ago), I was a baby sitter to my sister’s son for about 6-7 months.
I was a PEREFECT baby sitter (including changing children’s diapers, washing their asses, preparing them meals, feeding them, playng with them, singing them, walking with them…).
Then, I was baby sitting to my own daughter for much longer period (including all mentioned tasks and more).

No god told me, ever, how to baby sit, or how to do anything else.
Babies I was responsible for adored me, I adored them, none of them was ever dirty, hungry, or with broken arm, so you are just babbling to say something, and you, practically, have NO real answer why would I, or anyone, need a god.

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