"During his presidential campaign, Trump said that if elected, he would not allow Ford to open its plant in Mexico and threatened to add tariffs to any vehicles Ford imported from the US' southern neighbor."

So this is where some of the wheels fall off for me.... he would not allow a company to open a plant in Mexico? How? Why?

Republicans and conservatives usually go nuts about the government (or president) 'picking winners and losers' and hampering market forces. How is this different?

quote:"During his presidential campaign, Trump said that if elected, he would not allow Ford to open its plant in Mexico and threatened to add tariffs to any vehicles Ford imported from the US' southern neighbor."

So this is where some of the wheels fall off for me.... he would not allow a company to open a plant in Mexico? How? Why?

Republicans and conservatives usually go nuts about the government (or president) 'picking winners and losers' and hampering market forces. How is this different?

It's Trump...everything is different...LOL.

He isn't subscribing to any kind of ideological view on trade, that much is clear. If the bought and paid for suits in Washington who do listen to their lobbyists and corporate puppet masters follow Trump time will tell.

quote:"During his presidential campaign, Trump said that if elected, he would not allow Ford to open its plant in Mexico and threatened to add tariffs to any vehicles Ford imported from the US' southern neighbor."

So this is where some of the wheels fall off for me.... he would not allow a company to open a plant in Mexico? How? Why?

Republicans and conservatives usually go nuts about the government (or president) 'picking winners and losers' and hampering market forces. How is this different?

It's Trump...everything is different...LOL.

He isn't subscribing to any kind of ideological view on trade, that much is clear. If the bought and paid for suits in Washington who do listen to their lobbyists and corporate puppet masters follow Trump time will tell.

quote:will trump stop walmart from buying all their goods from china???.

...or Home Depot, or Best Buy, or your local hardware store, or any store...

There is no pure store, big box or otherwise when it comes to products from China or anywhere.

The Walmart example...if I have time I would like to post the number of made in USA products that can be found at Walmart. I would bet anyone that I could easily find dozens upon dozens, perhaps even hundreds (when adding all up all individual skus) of made in USA products at Walmart. I guarantee it, wanna bet? Trust me, I look at origin labels like it is my job. You go do it. Go to your Walmart. You would be surprised how much you can buy at Walmart that is made in USA.

quote:will trump stop walmart from buying all their goods from china???.

...or Home Depot, or Best Buy, or your local hardware store, or any store...

There is no pure store, big box or otherwise when it comes to products from China or anywhere.

The Walmart example...if I have time I would like to post the number of made in USA products that can be found at Walmart. I would bet anyone that I could easily find dozens upon dozens, perhaps even hundreds (when adding all up all individual skus) of made in USA products at Walmart. I guarantee it, wanna bet? Trust me, I look at origin labels like it is my job. You go do it. Go to your Walmart. You would be surprised how much you can buy at Walmart that is made in USA.

If trump insisted they sell "Made in USA" only, they would ALL close their doors.

quote:will trump stop walmart from buying all their goods from china???.

...or Home Depot, or Best Buy, or your local hardware store, or any store...

There is no pure store, big box or otherwise when it comes to products from China or anywhere.

The Walmart example...if I have time I would like to post the number of made in USA products that can be found at Walmart. I would bet anyone that I could easily find dozens upon dozens, perhaps even hundreds (when adding all up all individual skus) of made in USA products at Walmart. I guarantee it, wanna bet? Trust me, I look at origin labels like it is my job. You go do it. Go to your Walmart. You would be surprised how much you can buy at Walmart that is made in USA.

If trump insisted they sell "Made in USA" only, they would ALL close their doors.

That just isn't realistic. Who has ever said that Walmart or any retailer must only sell made in USA exclusively? Nobody has. That is not a position that Donald Trump has insisted or even hinted upon. Why are we going down that path? What I think we can do as consumers and what our country should do in policy is incentivize more goods and services being made and originating here, locating production and job centers here and favor the products made in our own communities with our own workers instead of those made abroad. I have been consistent on that since I began posting in these forums many years ago.

What I did in reply to your initial post this morning is to dispel this myth that everything at Walmart is made in China, or somehow Walmart is worse in this respect compared to other box store retailers. My point was that you could do quite well buying a large variety household and garage items at Walmart, not to mention the grocery aspect or the cosmetic/personal hygiene departments of their stores that are chock full of USA items.

Back to your question, currently the availability and capacity to fill an entire big box retail store with exclusively made in USA product does not exist.

That is not to mean that the product in question may not exist elsewhere, just that for a variety of reasons, if such product does exist is often isn't found in your neighborhood box store. Still, it is true you can find alot of USA product in these box stores, and it is true that you may not even realize the product you are buying is imported while passing up a US produced item next to it on the shelf. And sometimes that USA item is cheaper than the import. And it is also true that if you can't find a specific item in your local store that is made in the USA, chances are with some time and effort you can find and buy that product online or elsewhere. But it is also true that some items just are not made or assembled here and then it adds to the impossibility of having a retailer exclusively rely upon domestically made items for their shelves.

I'm surprised that this concept gets such pushback from people falling closer to the left side of the political spectrum. I guess Trump is making those more liberal minded people free market capitalist in favor of outsourcing all of a sudden? Before it was the Republicans and free trade, free market conservatives, you know the business interests, who oppose efforts and fought policy and initiatives for more USA made policy. Now the other side wants to attack the buy American sentiment? Confused. Doesn't matter to me who the President is, if my views align with their views that is something I support. I guess if Trump is for it, everyone else has to be against it now. But he has never said and I can't imagine him ever saying that Walmart must only sell USA made stuff.

I just am right now buying a lot of made in USA new old stock radiator caps for $10 each off of ebay because I can't find them in the USA anymore. Stant, Delco, Napa, and other brands started making them in Mexico and elsewhere a handful of years ago. You can still buy Stant and other branded thermostats that are US, but not radiator caps in the US.

So even if it isn't available in a store, or isn't produced any more I go to great lengths to source a USA made item before I consider settling for what else may be out there in terms of an import.

I've said before it is like a religion and for my friends, family and people that know me, it is important I walk the walk because I can't expect anyone else to care if the person who preaches USA to them doesn't back it up when nobody is looking.

quote:I just am right now buying a lot of made in USA new old stock radiator caps for $10 each off of ebay because I can't find them in the USA anymore. Stant, Delco, Napa, and other brands started making them in Mexico and elsewhere a handful of years ago. You can still buy Stant and other branded thermostats that are US, but not radiator caps in the US.

So even if it isn't available in a store, or isn't produced any more I go to great lengths to source a USA made item before I consider settling for what else may be out there in terms of an import.

I've said before it is like a religion and for my friends, family and people that know me, it is important I walk the walk because I can't expect anyone else to care if the person who preaches USA to them doesn't back it up when nobody is looking.

Im with you on this I am all for buying american. the recent trend of companies going back to "made in USA" has nothing to do with any political party, they decided in the past few years, its better and more cost effective to make it here. CEO's make over 400x the average worker, because of union busting, and outsourcing starting around the time reagan was elected.

quote:I just am right now buying a lot of made in USA new old stock radiator caps for $10 each off of ebay because I can't find them in the USA anymore. Stant, Delco, Napa, and other brands started making them in Mexico and elsewhere a handful of years ago. You can still buy Stant and other branded thermostats that are US, but not radiator caps in the US.

So even if it isn't available in a store, or isn't produced any more I go to great lengths to source a USA made item before I consider settling for what else may be out there in terms of an import.

I've said before it is like a religion and for my friends, family and people that know me, it is important I walk the walk because I can't expect anyone else to care if the person who preaches USA to them doesn't back it up when nobody is looking.

Im with you on this I am all for buying american. the recent trend of companies going back to "made in USA" has nothing to do with any political party, they decided in the past few years, its better and more cost effective to make it here. CEO's make over 400x the average worker, because of union busting, and outsourcing starting around the time reagan was elected.

Pops my friend, I just knew that we had agreement on the root issue.

There may be some aspect of the "political sentiment" or the vague comments by Trump that has led to some thinking about "reshoring" or where their investment dollars will go. But otherwise I agree, businesses do things for reasons of cost and efficiency and location. Back in 2008 when oil/diesel/gas there was a big problem for people relying on overseas shipping that had now skyrocketed due to high fuel costs. And then we have the labor costs that have risen in some areas. When it comes to "better and more cost effective", it is good PR for them to do it if they can market it right, but then there are also the tax and regulatory aspects, which we needed not get into at the moment to kill the buzz...

We could debate the merits of unionized workforce some other time or some other place. But I would say that I want what all labor union workers want. They want good pay, good working conditions, good benefits, job security and future opportunity - that is what I want for US workers as well and I see creating more demand for labor as the means to achieve it (not mandated upon employers who would then consider just outsourcing production as a result). And I know we agree on the outsourcing aspect and the impact it has had on the average or median worker pay compared to CEO pay.

Let's not even mention the name of the POTUS, we are on the same page, Buy American!

When it comes to toys, just about all toys kids like and want are the cheapo crap you see in the toy aisle which is almost always made in China.

We have found that there are some decent alternatives out there that kids actually like and to want to play with. Our grandkids got a some of this stuff for Christmas and it is pretty cool stuff. They claim 100% recycled and 100% made in USA.

I certainly do read labels of most everything I buy, although it sounds like you go to greater lengths to find that Made in USA item when one isn't readily available there on the shelf.

It amazes me to see country of origin on some stuff, tooth brushes for example - I refuse to buy/use a toothbrush made in China, but check it out next time you shop, you too will be amazed where these things are made these days.

Frustrating to read labels only to find it doesn't say where it was made. It may say distributed by or simply give the corporate address of the company, but I am looking for Made in USA, so if it doesn't say that, one can guess what they are hiding.

Edit: and I bookmarked that green toys site, thanks !

[Edited on 2/15/2017 by heineken515]

____________________You want to talk to me
Go ahead and talk
Whatever you got to say to me
Won't come as any shock

quote:I certainly do read labels of most everything I buy, although it sounds like you go to greater lengths to find that Made in USA item when one isn't readily available there on the shelf.

It amazes me to see country of origin on some stuff, tooth brushes for example - I refuse to buy/use a toothbrush made in China, but check it out next time you shop, you too will be amazed where these things are made these days.

Frustrating to read labels only to find it doesn't say where it was made. It may say distributed by or simply give the corporate address of the company, but I am looking for Made in USA, so if it doesn't say that, one can guess what they are hiding.

Edit: and I bookmarked that green toys site, thanks !

[Edited on 2/15/2017 by heineken515]

Sometimes items that are boxed in a case, the individual items may not say where they are made, but the case box would say were they are from. I have seen this in auto parts warehouses, where the product or the individual product box said nothing of country, but if you saw the case box still on the warehouse shelf you may see the country there. When it is on a retail shelf you lose that opportunity to see the case box of course.

Just us buying things that are made in USA without telling people about it and why it is important to us doesn't really do anything. I mean, really my own efforts likely won't effect anything big picture, but we can plant seeds in the minds of people we come in contact with.

This will sound crazy, but sometimes I take something to the register that I saw was imported, but when I'm at check out I pretend I just saw that it was imported right then and there and I tell the cashier that I don't want it and that I try to buy as many things made in USA as possible. This usually gets 3 reactions. The confident "I'm with you on that", or the debbie-downers "nothing is made here anymore", or the always rewarding reaction of "that's fine whatever".

The border adjustment tax is shaping up to be the vehicle in which Washington may address the import / export trade imbalance and outsourcing issue. A massive tax plan is expected and it would be rolled into that. Alot of Republicans are against it, not surprising given their views of free markets and free trade. Border adjustment tax on it's own, I suspect many Democrats will support, but rolled into a larger tax reform bill, I doubt that all that many Democrats will find favor with the overall bill based on the historical push-pull Ds and Rs have on taxes.

Companies with large manufacturing and assembly operations in the US would be for it. Most retailers (who have a large portion of imported goods on their shelf) are against it. Although former Walmart CEO is for it (on big picture principle rather than individual effects it has on one company or anther):

quote:“[The CEOs in opposition to the tax] are making their decisions based on the tax code as it is set up today, and what’s being proposed is a complete reform of the tax code where the incentives to export jobs and export businesses that have existed for years would be turned around so that the incentives to build capability and jobs in the U.S. would exist,” Bill Simon, former Walmart U.S. president and CEO, said during an interview with FOX Business’ Stuart Varney Wednesday.

A company like Autozone for instance a strongly against it. But this is a key point to be made here, auto parts and accessories are increasingly getting harder and harder to find made in the US. So autozone looks at it's skus and where they come from and conclude that the cost of what they sell will go up and they may have less sales, less profit or be less competitive. BUT, what if some of these companies making the parts begin to make the parts here again to avoid the tax? Then we get the benefit of manufacturing facilities and the jobs and all the local and state taxes that come with it to benefit our communities.

Some calculations have it raising a trillion dollars over some period of time, which will offset a reduction in corporate incomes.

The government may just be happy collecting the tax, but as I have stated, the idea is to incentivize more companies both US and foreign to produce their products in our country with our workers.

My salesman just got back from a week in Mexico visiting customers. General consensus was they are not coming back and are willing to let the US consumer pay higher prices for parts. CNC machines aren't made in the USA, nor are alot of cutting tools. Other supplies required for manufacturing can be purchased from sources outside the USA also. Workers there in general have been getting a 5% raise each year for the last few years. A lot of what's made down there is sold south of the border anyhow. Now i'm not talking about every manufacturer, just the ones I deal with.

____________________Flies all green 'n buzzin' in his dungeon of despair
Who are all those people that he's locked away up there
Are they crazy?,
Are they sainted?
Are they zeros someone painted?,
It has never been explained since at first it was created

My salesman just got back from a week in Mexico visiting customers. General consensus was they are not coming back and are willing to let the US consumer pay higher prices for parts. CNC machines aren't made in the USA, nor are alot of cutting tools. Other supplies required for manufacturing can be purchased from sources outside the USA also. Workers there in general have been getting a 5% raise each year for the last few years. A lot of what's made down there is sold south of the border anyhow. Now i'm not talking about every manufacturer, just the ones I deal with.

Haas

quote:Today, Haas manufactures four major product lines: vertical machining centers (VMCs), horizontal machining centers (HMCs), CNC lathes and rotary tables, as well as a number of large five-axis and specialty machines. All Haas products are manufactured at the company's expansive facility in Oxnard, California – the largest, most modern machine tool manufacturing operation in the United States.http://www.haascnc.com/about_history.asp#gsc.tab=0

I knew Haas was USA. Not sure if anyone else is. Where are the Japanese machines made? I know they are regarded for very high quality. They build those in Asia or Mexico?

Haas are good machines but......not for 24/7 manufacturing. they are fairly weak throw away machines compared to mazak and okuma etc.

the workholding companies you name don't do integrated turnkey systems integrated i mean they may do some, but not the type automotive need for a lot of parts. i don't want to give away too much....NDA's and all

lol, i do workholding....we are american

____________________Flies all green 'n buzzin' in his dungeon of despair
Who are all those people that he's locked away up there
Are they crazy?,
Are they sainted?
Are they zeros someone painted?,
It has never been explained since at first it was created

LOL, no those guys not close to my competitors. Haas makes good stuff for smaller shops....thats why they advertise in Nascar. they also make good CNC controls. they are not a bad company but i have never owned one, which means absolutely nothing.

____________________Flies all green 'n buzzin' in his dungeon of despair
Who are all those people that he's locked away up there
Are they crazy?,
Are they sainted?
Are they zeros someone painted?,
It has never been explained since at first it was created

i will say a CNC that can do multiple operations is worthless if you don't have workholding to hold the part while it happens. its always a struggle between theory and reality.

____________________Flies all green 'n buzzin' in his dungeon of despair
Who are all those people that he's locked away up there
Are they crazy?,
Are they sainted?
Are they zeros someone painted?,
It has never been explained since at first it was created

Play-Doh will soon be squeezed out of a factory in the U.S. again, as Hasbro Inc. brings manufacturing of the popular moldable clay back to America for the first time in years.

Hasbro said it is working with a manufacturing partner to make Play-Doh at a facility in East Longmeadow, Mass., starting in the second half of 2018. Although the preschool clay was invented in Cincinnati in the 1950s, it hasn’t been made in the U.S. since 2004.

quote:Companies are exploring new places to make toys as the Trump administration and Congress weigh a dramatic overhaul of U.S. tax policy. One proposal from House Republicans would prevent companies from deducting the cost of imports when calculating their taxes, while exempting proceeds from exports. That plan has been under attack from retailers, senators and oil refiners. Mr. Trump has offered ambivalent positions on the border-adjustment idea, but he has consistently said he wants policies that favor domestic manufacturing.

Such a change would have serious implications for the $25 billion U.S. toy industry, which has long made the vast majority of its product overseas. The research firm IBISWorld estimates that 98.5% of all toys sold in the U.S. last year were made elsewhere.

Toy companies are assessing the different scenarios. Mattel Inc. executives said last month that if the government imposes a major tax on imported products, the company would have to adjust its manufacturing footprint. Mattel closed its last U.S. production site—a Fisher-Price factory in Murray, Ky.—in 2002.

“Shorter term, there’s not much we can do about that,” said Kevin Farr, Mattel’s finance chief, on an earnings conference call. “Longer term, I think we would react to it.”

When you stroll the aisles of the Made in America Store, you might notice a conspicuous absence. There is not a single item for sale that requires a battery or a plug. That is because no electronics meet the strict guidelines of an emporium that stocks only products 100% made in America.

There are three aisles of toys, non-electronic, that veer toward the nostalgic: playing cards, horseshoes, marbles and jacks, boomerangs, Slinkies, perhaps their bestselling item. Checkers and Chinese checkers. (Not the kind made in China.)

The Made in America Store is the brainchild of Mark Andol, 50, an energetic, mile-a-minute talker with silver-tinged, waved-back hair and a wispy mustache.

Andol, the third generation of a Greek immigrant family, was raised on American manufacturing. His father was an ironworker employed at the Ford stamping plant in nearby Buffalo and his mother made xylophone keys for a subcontractor of Fisher-Price, the toy company headquartered in nearby East Aurora.

Andol was frustrated that his welding company, which made metal parts for industry, kept losing contracts to cheaper Chinese competitors. So on a whim, in 2010, he rented a vacant automobile dealership to showcase American products.

“Sure, Mark. The world is fully of crazy people. Go for it,’’ Andol recalls he was told.

Filling the cavernous building proved more difficult than Andol imagined. At first he carried only 50 products. He had set a standard higher than the Federal Trade Commission, requiring that the products be 100% U.S. made “right down to the glue in the packaging.’’

Andol was familiar with the certification procedures because he sometimes bid on military contracts, which give preference to U.S. suppliers under a 1941 law called the Berry amendment. He would pore over binders with letters certifying the origins of the components only to be crushed when he had to dump a product that did not make the cut.

“I was so excited to find tea from the United States because I’m a tea drinker, but then I found out the bags were made in Japan and I had to kick it out of the store,” he said.

In homage to his mother’s past making xylophone keys, Andol badly wanted to sell toys from Fisher-Price, which has its headquarters just two miles away.

“They used to have model builders, toy makers, engineers working here, but now they are all gone and only the corporate headquarters is here,’’ Andol said. “I couldn’t find one Fisher-Price toy completely made in America.’’

Other retailers are trying an all-American approach, but it is a constant struggle. Today, Andol boasts that he stocks 7,000 items, although admittedly the numbers get a boost from some products that are essentially the same but come in different sizes or colors. He has opened several branch stores and sells online.

Shoppers in search of a specific item would be advised to head to Wal-Mart. But the novelty of shopping American is enough of an adventure that the Made in America flagship attracts more than 600 tour buses annually.

The store is decked out in an American theme, the walls covered with large completely American-made American flags. (The U.S. imports about $4 million in American flags from China each year.) T-shirts are plastered with the store’s slogan, “Because China is a long drive to work!”

For all the anti-China rhetoric, some of the best customers are Chinese tourists.

“The Chinese go ballistic buying stuff in there because it is made in America, not made in China,’’ said Eric Bateman, a tour bus operator from Conrad, Iowa, who brings tourists on their way to Niagara Falls. “Mark sells these great, simple things. You can buy a can opener and put it in the dishwasher and it doesn’t rust.’’

Bringing manufacturing back to the United States — and preserving manufacturing still here — is seen as the holy grail of economic revival for many policymakers and politicians. “My administration will follow two simple rules: Buy American, and hire American,” Donald Trump declared at a postelection victory rally in Des Moines last year.

And yet they are elusive goals, many economists say.

“We live in a world today where you have very complex interdependent supply networks,’’ said Willy Shih, a professor at Harvard Business School who has written extensively on the need for a U.S. manufacturing revival. “One of the challenges with technology is that you have a lot of high-value components from various sources.”

From experience, Andol knows that hiring American labor can be as difficult as sourcing American products. At his manufacturing shop, he is struggling to find skilled welders, fabricators and engineers, and the people he hires are undoubtedly more expensive than foreign workers.

“If I took my $2.4-million payroll overseas, I’d be paying $400,000,” Andol said. “But you need to support the country you live in too.”

Andol is enthusiastic about President Trump’s promises to bring back American goods, though a little disappointed that Trump and his daughter Ivanka had so much of the clothing they sell manufactured outside the U.S.

“I think it is very hard, but I personally know clothing can be made here… and some of what we sell is cheaper than the imports,’’ he said.

To prove his point, Andol explains his own wardrobe. He wears Texas Jeans (which are actually made in Asheville, N.C.), Wigwam socks, Thorogood work boots. It’s all made in American right down to the underwear, belt and the wallet he carries. The only notable except is what he always carries: the iPhone.

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