Yes, because that was all Martin was going to do, just break someone's nose and let that be the end of it. He didn't stay on top of another man beating him against the pavement or anything.

Oh wait.

If someone breaks my nose and then tries to finsih the job should I let him kill me so that people can sit around afterwards and say "That Ashton, he may be dead but he was a good little pacifist to the end"? And Trayvon Martin was a brawler. He was 5'11" and muscular. He'd be able to kill me with relative ease. I'd be well within my rights to shoot him if he told me he was going to kill me.

I'm glad we live in a world where breaking someone's nose is punishable by death.

Mesh, I understand where you're coming from... but when you start a fight, you have to expect that the other person can and will do anything to save themselves.You really have no idea what you'd do to survive until you get put on the spot...

If trayvon hadn't attacked zimmerman, zimmerman wouldn't have had to defend himself. What if zimmerman had defended himself with just his bare hands and struck the kid in his temple or throat and killed him? Would he sill be a murderer? I'm sorry if you feel like everyone should have some basic knowledge of self defense, but if my head is getting bashed off the ground by someone, that's grounds to stop him ANY WAY POSSIBLE.

No, because in the time between the phone call from Zimmerman to dispatch to the confrontation, Martin had time enough to return home. By that point Zimmerman had lost track of him and was returning to his car. Martin circled back to confront Zimmerman.

Also, there is nothing wrong with looking to see if someone might have been a burglar. Stalking is repeated harassment, which clearly didn't happen here (people keep using that word and I don't think they know what it means); Zimmerman pursued, lost Martin, went back to his car. Martin came back and started beating on Zimmerman.

Concisely:

Following Martin - Not illegalMartin returning and confronting Zimmerman, asking if he had a problem - Not illegalZimmerman saying he had no problem - Not illegalMartin saying Zimmerman now had a problem - Not illegalMartin punching Zimmerman in the face - illegal, misdemeanorMartin getting on top of Zimmerman and pounding his head into the pavement - illegal, felony assault; possibly aggravated assaultZimmerman pulling out a gun and shooting at Martin - Not illegal, self defense

Ever think that maybe Trayvon Martin was trying to defend himself ANY FUCKING WAY possible from the guy with a gun who was stalking him for no reason?

But that's the thing, did Martin know Zimmerman had a gun on him? If he did, do you think he would have even attacked Zimmerman then? I'm a huge guy with an incredibly big ego and the balls to step up to anyone threatening me, but if you have a gun, I'll sit that out thanks much.

Ever think that maybe Trayvon Martin was trying to defend himself ANY FUCKING WAY possible from the guy with a gun who was stalking him for no reason?

Given that Zimmerman was following him from a distance in low visibility and had his gun concealed under his shirt and jacket the idea that Martin knew about the gun is simply grasping at straws.

And since people are addressing this as a case involving Stand Your Ground law: No, no, no, no, just. FUCKING. NO. The Stand Your Ground law had NO application in this case. The chief of police said it was irrelevant in deciding whether or not to make an arrest. Zimmerman did not attend an SYG hearing. The defense did not cite or attempt use it. The prosecutor did not cite it except when trying to assassinate Zimmerman's character by citing an interview with Fox News discussing SYG law. It had no bearing whatsoever on the case. Stand Your Ground (or laws requiring you to flee when attacked) have no legal relevance in a situation where you cannot run, such as when you're pinned to the ground. This was a straight up self defense case and would have been argued the same way in court in a state that doesn't have a stand your ground law.

By the way, I'd like to point out that laws that say 'you must flee' are at least as vague--often moreso--than any SYG law (most if not all of which require a defined standard of having good reasons for believing your life is in danger), because there is no defined standard of how hard you must try to flee or how far you must flee before you're allowed to defend yourself. The case of CeCe McDonald is an excellent illustration of what happens in places where there is no SYG law. Did she flee? Yes. But according to the state, she didn't flee enough so defending herself against an attacker was illegal.

Also, I'm terrified by the idea that we live in some Orwellian world where defending your life against someone who has ambushed you and is trying to kill you is murder. While we're at it let's just admit that war is peace and and love is hate.

In the meantime, between Kate's baby and demonizing the (half) white dude, the world seems to have failed to notice the fucking prison break in Abu Ghraib, which resulted in hundreds of inmates escaping.

Doug: Avi!Avi: Shut up and sit down, you big, bald fuck. I don't like leaving my own country, Doug, and I especially don't like leaving it for anything less then warm sandy beaches, and cocktails with little straw hats.