Fun is over: Wizards had to make a move

It's over. The last Wizard to call Michael Jordan his boss and teammate is gone. The Tuff Juice has been poured out on the corner. The swag has vanished. The Wizards as you once knew them are no more, and they haven't been since before Gilbert Arenas was suspended for the rest of the season last month.

President Ernie Grunfeld had to do something. As he told me on Saturday night, "Maybe this group together has gotten a little bit stale."

That's being kind. This season has been toxic. I had a conversation with Stevenson recently and we talked about how the vibe with the team just wasn't the same. The locker room had gone from being the loosest in the league to the tightest. Actually, it was the emptiest. You used to be able to walk in there, have some small talk with the players, listen to them rag on each other and share some exciting stories.

But that wasn't the case this year, with the Wizards failing to live up to expectations and Arenas-Javaris Crittenton gun incident later causing everything else to unravel.

I often referred to this as the worst-case scenario season and there really isn't a much better way to describe it. Owner Abe Pollin died in late November. Jamison suffered a shoulder injury in the preseason. Mike Miller strained his left shoulder, then his right calf decided that his left shoulder really needed some rest. Arenas and Butler were never on the same page (And that's sugarcoating it. As one person close to the team told me, "Those guys just flat out didn't like each other"). The team was never unified this season. And, now it has been drastically altered.

The Wizards had known for some time that they had lost any leverage to receive equal value in a trade as the team continued to pile up losses. They talked to several teams, and while they wanted draft picks or young prospects few were willing to offer much more than salary cap relief.

In conversations with Houston for Tracy McGrady's expiring contract, the Wizards were also hoping to pry a rotation player such as Kyle Lowry, Carl Landry or Luis Scola. The Rockets, of course, weren't willing to sacrifice any of them. They also tried, to no avail, to get Rodrigue Beaubois from Dallas but eventually had to settle for a package that brought considerable cap relief next season ($15 million comes off the books) and some luxury tax relief this season (they cut nearly $2.5 million off the payroll in the trade).

Grunfeld tried to sell the virtues of this trade by commenting on Howard's all-star credentials, Gooden's considerable postseason experience and the versatility of Singleton and Ross (a former teammate of assistant Sam Cassell). But this deal was a clear statement that the Wizards are starting over.

A league source informed me that the Wizards would like to make a few more tweaks between now and Thursday. Jamison is obviously the name that will be mentioned several times over the next few days. And, he's probably looking around wondering what became of the team he joined in the summer of 2004.

This season has worn on him, even more than last season, when the Wizards had a built-in excuse for their 19-win season. After the Wizards lost to Charlotte, 94-92, on Tuesday, Jamison expressed how much he was looking forward to a break. "I need a break," he said. "Things are not running smoothly. I'm mentally fatigued. I just need to get away. I'm watching movies, playing with the kids. I won't be seeing any basketball in awhile. I'm not watching college ball, T-ball, anything with a ball. I'm just tired."

For the first time in several weeks, I got the impression that the Wizards are seriously considering moving Jamison, who is set to make $28-million over the next two seasons after this one. Moving Jamison could position the Wizards to sign a max-level free agent next summer.

But the Wizards aren't necessarily looking to just move high-salaried players. One team insider told me that the Wizards would have to eventually consider breaking up the foursome of Andray Blatche, Nick Young, Dominic McGuire and JaVale McGee. And, I heard from two sources that the Wizards reached out to the Charlotte Bobcats, offering Blatche for point guard D.J. Augustin. That conversation didn't go very far, but it is interesting to see where the Wizards go from here.

Well, there you have it people who are ripping EG for not getting picks or young usable talent. Teams are not offering those things as was obvious to me!

Get the cap space and move on. Yeah, I would not be sad to see NY or AB moved. McGuire is not much of a player regardless. McGee I would hold onto bc right now he is the only young player with real upside, but I have serious doubts about him too. Seems we stocked up on players with talent, but low basketball IQ's especially after you got past our top 4/5 players.

What good old days? The last time I checked this team, as assembled by Grunfeld, had never won a thing. I hope the new owner will bring along new management people with him because nothing Grunfeld has done in the last five years has turned the Wizards into contenders has it?

The only thing I don't understand is why make this deal so early. I'm wondering would it have hurt to wait until Wednesday or maybe Thursday when Dallas or whoever may be a little my desperate and more willing to throw in a draft pick. He did the same thing with the 5 pick. I'm sure that deal could have waited until draft night and Minn might have been willing to exchange draft picks as part of the deal.

The Wiz are now officially an expansion franchise....EG was told to clear the decks and start from scratch by Leonsis who clearly didn't want a sorry team that was over the luxury tax. Next to be traded will be Jamision and possibly Miller. Next, they'll try to void or buyout the Arenas contract. This has been coming for a long time since it was obvious the team had no chemistry even before the Arenas gun incident.

Butler and Arenas clearly didn't like each other or enjoy playing together so the trade was inevitable. I think we'll find out down the road that a number of players wanted out of town after being part of such a dysfunctional franchise.

Michael, thanks for the updates. What's really discouraging is - there's zero communication from Mr. Grunfeld to the fans as to what's going on - and what's the plan? For instance, does he plan on re-signing any of the players he just acquired? Are they re-tooling (which seems absurd), or are we re-building? I love Jamison, but... what is the purpose of keeping here? None of these questions seem to be addressed by our GM, so it gets more and more frustrating to support this franchise.

Seems we (not we Ernie) stocked up on players with talent, but low basketball IQ's especially after you got past our top 4/5 players (try top to bottom other than MM).

Posted by: rphilli721 | February 13, 2010 11:00 PM | Report abuse

Dude, I'm out here in San Diego where they have great medical marijuana and I would gladly trade my stash for whatever you’re smoking.

Yeah, I would not be sad to see NY or AB moved. McGuire is not much of a player regardless. McGee I would hold onto bc right now he is the only young player with real upside, but I have serious doubts about him too.

Your boy Ernie just exercised the contract options on NY and JM last year?

If you ever wonder why Wizard GMs are so dumb, remember who hired them. Pollin was the worst in every facet. He forced his ineptitude on fans for 46 years and didn't have the decency to admit he didn't know what he was doing. This team doesn't win until every person he hired, right down to the peanut vendors, is fired.

And now the tax hit is roughly 1.6 million, no? O.K. the financial end of this mess is basically over, and GRUNFELD is left holding the monetary bag filled with ARENAS and JAMISON. Is anyone surprised?..............

You are................oh really............., just as much as you would be by seeing GIL O in a WIZARDS uniform next year. Well, get used to it. You'll see plenty of ARENAS before he's gone. And in all probability, JAMISON as well. The ARENAS contract is the anchor that is drowning the franchise.

Thanks GRUNFELD. Hey, EG, how's that working out for ya'? And guess what POLLINS, I'm not buying tickets anymore, and I don't care. Maybe later after competent ownership takes over.

NOTE TO STERN:

You best be extremely careful about selecting the new ownership, lest the franchise fold.

I think it's about time that Ernie lost his job. We all knew after the second playoff ouster by the Cavs that the Wiz Kids were headed nowhere fast. I understand why people thought it a good idea to keep the team together seeing that some of the playoff losses were hotly contested. But all-in-all true hoop fans knew better.

The teams played zero defense, showed not post threat and constantly failed in a clutch situation that counted. With these major failings in mind Ernie should have sprumg into action much quicker. Instead he continued to draft and re-sign more offensive, perimeter and finesse players.

Haywood and Caron had the highest b-bal IQ and now that's gone. Jamison is the only consistent player but he too will soon be gone. In my opinion he should have been traded before either Caron or Haywood.

After all is said and done, though...I'm just a lowly Wiz fan voicing a worthless opinion. All I can do is sit back and see what other futile moves Ernie makes to save his job.

My last hope and prayer is that something is worked out to cancel that clown Arenas' contract.

From the moment Ernie said the only guy he would draft is Blake Griffin was the secone he needed to be fired. Singlton and Ross though??? I would rather have a 2nd round pick than those 2 and we could have squeezed out a 2011 first round with just Butler and Haywood alone. I really hate this guy Grunfeld man.

I'd feel a lot better about this demo job if Ted was in charge. Then again, the team might be worth a hell-of-a-lot less after E.G. finishes making trades simply for the sake of making trades. So maybe if the asking price goes down Mr. Leonsis can buy the team. Not that would be a blessing in disguise.

You think Grunfeld didn't try to pry some tangible assets out of the Mavs? Really? Come on. The Mavs were not giving up a first round pick in this deal. Not going to happen. And they shouldn't have.

Howard for Butler straight up is pretty much a wash; Haywood for Gooden is basically swapping an overrated role playing big man who only plays hard when feels like it at one end of the court for an overrated role playing big man who only plays hard when he feels like it at the other end (if anything, Gooden has more natural talent than Haywood); and Ross/Singleton for Stevenson is already doing the Wizards a favor by getting Stevenson's contract off the books. This is about as even a deal as I've seen. It makes Dallas better not because they got the better players, but because they got players who may (repeat, may) be a better fit. And, also, because the Wizards are awful regardless.

There is a supplement to all of this that has largely gone unmentioned in most coverage: We believe Dallas will also be giving a Trade Exception to Washington and taking back a player like reserve center Fabricio Oberto. In fact, we will suggest that who to take with the TE -- the candidates are those with salaries between $1.4 mil and $3 mil, Blatche, Oberto, Young and McGee -- is as much part of the debate/delay as the Ross/Thomas/Singleton question.

Contrary to what Mike says he's heard, I really doubt that they're going to get rid of Blatche, Young, McGee or McGuire, unless they need to give up one of them as a trade package. Those guys all have cheap contracts. As for that Ernie-MJ conversation that you guys are imagining, come on now. Even as lousy as an executive as MJ has demonstrated himself to be, he wouldn't pass up a chance to get a 6'11" rotation player with AB's skills for a 6' shoot-first point guard who's been shooting 37 percent from the field. And it's even tougher to imagine Ernie wanting to make that trade, unless Blatche brought an Uzi into the locker room and pointed it at the Wizards' trainer.

Considering how bad the Mavs have been playing lately (How sad is it that a bad spell for them would be a hot streak for the Wiz right now?), I also would have liked to see Ernie wait to see if the Mavs' struggles continued right before the deadline and the pressure mounted on Cuban to do something. But, the problem w/waiting is that the other teams interested in CB or BTH might have backed-off publicly and made the Wiz seem even more desperate.

I still wish they could have pried away Dallas' first rounder. I hate the way this year's draft looks in the range that the Wiz will be drafting (w/their luck). And I actually like some of the physical PFs that will be available in the #20-26 range.

I really like Gani Lawal from GaTech. He doesn't complain about not getting the ball, he just goes after it and gets points and boards the hard way.

The $3 mil. the Wizards save on Stevenson's contract is around the price of a late 1st rounder. So they have that option. They also have the ability to squeeze a team over the cap for a good young player by renting their cap space. Considering Grunfeld's lackluster drafting history, I'd prefer getting a proven player.

I know that some fans are excited about cap space and going after a big FA this off-season, but I really fear that the Wiz may be headed back toward being one of the cheap teams, like they were for so many teams.

The excuse will just be that they are waiting to see what happens with the new CBA. I guess I will just spend the rest of the season hoping that they WIN the lottery (just like I did last year). That is the only way that I can see the team even trying to do anything next season other than eclipsing the awful season that the Nets are having this year.

Some of the players that could be drafted in the top ten look like guys that might be stars for some teams, but would probably fall apart under the curse of lez boulez. Let's all cross our fingers and hope for John Wall, although if the Wiz win the lottery it would probably be because he chose to stay in college. HoHum...

If we can find someone to take Blatche's contract off our hands then the only players we will have under contract for next season are Young and McGee, with the ability to make a qualifying offer to Foye to make him a restricted free agent, also Ross has a player option for next season and it will be interesting to see if he exercises it.

Extra draft pics would be nice but all of this cap space is what the Wiz really need to rebuild. Well as long as ernie doesn't over pay for anyone this summer.

What do you think about:

Jamison, Miller and Blatche to Celtics for Ray Allen and Scalabrine and a 1st round pick. Or Foye and Blatche to the Lakers for Adam Morrison and Shannon Brown(or more likely Josh Powell).

And the couch potato GM's keep chirping. I have no clue what you guys thought a cleansing would look like, but this is about as good as it gets for step one. You think CB and BH were going to command players, draft picks, and salary cap relief. Wake up! We got what we wanted and so did they. I agree with Kal except for the part where he said Dallas didn't get the better players. That is pretty much not debatable except in his mind I presume. Get more relief or a potential player with AJ and we have finished phase one. Next, get lucky in the draft lottery and proceed from there. It's going to get worse before it gets better. That's what rebuilding is and it's better than not even treading water with overpaid players who don't want to be here anymore or play with each other. This was inevitable since the gun show.

"Contrary to what Mike says he's heard, I really doubt that they're going to get rid of Blatche, Young, McGee or McGuire, unless they need to give up one of them as a trade package."

So you know more the the Wizards "insider". C'mon. Why would anyone on this underachieving roster not be expendable particularly when the best players are not. So, we will part with anyone except NY bc he is such a gem?

I know you were just speaking generically, but 'getting lucky in the lottery' is definitely not the history of this franchise. Whatever the plan is, and whoever will be executing it, their plan needs to exclude the possibility of a good draft pick.

The one decent part of this trade is that there is now less financial pressure on them to trade Jamison. I still think he should go for the right deal, but even cap-wise, they don't HAVE to trade him anymore. Which might help them get a better deal. The big downside (aside from not getting a youngster with potential in return)is that with Gooden and Howard, our knucklehead quotient went up.

Time will tell if Kalo is right about the trade. I don't think CB and BTH are markedly better than Howard and Gooden (if Howard is healthy). Haywood is ultimately probably a better fit for the Mavs than Gooden, because they have enough scorers and need interior defense help. But I think Howard is better fit for them than CB.

While the trade appears lopsided now, it may not be in the very near future. Neither wants to play for the Wiz, I assume, and their assets have value to a contender. Both Gooden and Howard could be moved for the desired pick or prospect that the Wiz had hoped to get originally (or as part of some 3-way deal). Plus Jameson will bring in something beyond more cap relief, even if the Cavs seem out of the picture now since they are rumored to be near a deal for Stoudemire.
EG may not be a favorite, but he is not doen dealing.

ESPN on the trade (Hollinger):
"Sum it up, and the logic appears more straightforward for Washington than for Dallas. The Wizards had a goal (cutting money) and accomplished it, though without the talent upside they might have wanted. The Mavs have committed to putting an extra $30 million toward their goal (winning a title), yet we're not certain they've put themselves much closer to the promised land.

That said, we need a few more days before we can issue our final verdicts: The Mavs and Wizards still have until 3 p.m. ET on Thursday to make trades that cast a fresh light on Saturday's big deal, and it's those follow-up trades that might change the final score."

The Wizards just turned themselves into a first year franchise team overnight! For those of you who think this was a good move are relying on the fact that Grunfeld will be able to land premier free agents with his "cap space". We shall see.

I have mixed feelings about this trade, but Iguess cap space and losing is better than over cap and losing.

Plus, Caron has been kind of hot lately, so not having him in the lineup means we are less likely to make a game winning shot that throws off our chances of drafting #1.

Maybe we will be able to package one oor more of these guys to trade with someone.

I don't covet Hickson, so I don't care if we trade the Cavs or not.
The two best things about this trade are ditching Stevensons salary next year and not having Haywood retard our future. McGee and Blatche should be playing 25-30 minutes a night. They are both cheap for the next couple years, so hopefully they can be contributers or at least show off for trade value.

No team is going to be a serious championship contender with Haywood as their starting center, but he is a nice 2nd stringer.

And now the tax hit is roughly 1.6 million, no? O.K. the financial end of this mess is basically over, and GRUNFELD is left holding the monetary bag filled with ARENAS and JAMISON. Is anyone surprised?

You are?................Oh really.............? Just as much as you would be by seeing GILO' ZERO in a WIZARDS uniform next year? Well, get used to it. You'll see plenty of ARENAS before he's gone. And in all probability, JAMISON as well. The ARENAS contract is the lead weight that is drowning this franchise.

Thanks ABE/GRUNFELD, whomever. Hey, EG, how's that deal working out for ya'? And guess what POLLINS, I'm not buying tickets anymore(and I haven't this year), and I don't care. Maybe later after competent ownership takes over.

NOTE TO STERN:

You best be extremely careful about selecting the new ownership lest the franchise fold and join the CBA. Oops, I meant the developmental league.

And the couch potato GM's keep chirping. I have no clue what you guys thought a cleansing would look like, but this is about as good as it gets for step one. You think CB and BH were going to command players, draft picks, and salary cap relief. Wake up! We got what we wanted and so did they. I agree with Kal except for the part where he said Dallas didn't get the better players. That is pretty much not debatable except in his mind I presume. Get more relief or a potential player with AJ and we have finished phase one. Next, get lucky in the draft lottery and proceed from there. It's going to get worse before it gets better. That's what rebuilding is and it's better than not even treading water with overpaid players who don't want to be here anymore or play with each other. This was inevitable since the gun show.

Posted by: rphilli721 | February 14, 2010 4:19 AM |

Bingo! rphilli has the best post so far. Life is full of intangibles and variables. Time for Wizards fans to loosen up, and enjoy the ride! Tickets are cheap, lots of options are open. A lot of losses are coming, but we've broken free of the old mess, and it was time to do that. I just hope that the players who will now get minutes will show hunger and desire, rather than indifference, and that's a big concern. My number one recommendation to the Wizards - lower the price of drinks at the arena, and we'll have a party every home game!

Hope Gilbert enjoys spending the next 4 years of his life playing in this basketball hell that he created for himself.

Posted by: p1funk | February 14, 2010 7:55 AM | Report abuse

Would you have turned down the money in GIL's contract? I know I wouldn't. No, I lay blame at the feet of the decision to contract with him in the first place.

When he issued that edict to sign JAMISON or "I walk" I would have opened the door for him. Then none of this would have happened, at least, not to the WIZARDS. Some other team would have had him, and his injuries. And without that horrendous contract.

No other club would have been that stupid. This franchise has to have the most gutless, brain-dead ownership and front office in the NBA.

Hope: I've always noted that Grunfeld was not a good communicator to the fans. But there is a reason: he's playing high stakes poker for us. He can't yak too much about his plans. I like the theory that he is playing facilitator to the playoff teams right now. He's already created cap space, and he still has time to market Jamison, Howard, and Gooden. He's got a plan, don't worry. It's just up to us to figure it out on our own.

There are 14 people on the active roster and 2 suspended for the rest of the year. Must one be released or a 2 for 1 deal made?
There is no true center, so Jamison for Ilgauskas makes sense - Gooden to PF.
Until Gil's contract expires, the roster can be filled with vet minimum players, we can guarantee that there will be 5 starters. The Wiz could probably even make money with revenue sharing and a payroll between 40 and 50K. That's a way to play a "short stack."
The final question is "Are there any young coaches out there that do player development?"

It's called adaptive management. Once in a while I can be baited into this discussion. Look, I'm far from the most knowledgeable person on basketball GM moves, but I understand management, and good managers make their decisions in the here and now, and recognize that decision points and strategies change. Without a doubt, Grunfeld made the right moves with Miller and Foye, based on the team as it existed at that time. Second guessing can conclude the big three could no longer perform and a few of the perennial pessimists can even accurately say they made that call all along, but success is based on optimism, and Grunfeld managed based on that last summer, and is conducting adaptive management now. There is no doubt the Bullets and Wizards have had far more than their share of poor results, but Grunfeld had a strategy with the best chance for success that could be reasonably assembled.

I'll put it this way - I have a high pressured job completely unrelated to basketball. But I am very familiar with the peanut gallery who know nothing about the complexities of job decisions I make.

Wizards pessimists can continue to be pessimists and optimists can be optimists, and the world will still go around. You can have at this post or let it pass, but I'll always stand by the premise that it is adaptive management, and that you can never explain away all second guessing and pessimism; it's the same as politics, and it can be seen in political commentary every evening.

If they can dump AJ and have all this cap space, I wonder if they'd move all the chips to the middle of the table and go hard after LeBron. If Leonsis wants to make a splash, what better way to do it? You know he could sell the organization/city/fanbase to LJ.

Aaahh...who'm I kidding? I know I'm being delusional/grasping at straws (who exactly is here for LeBron to play with?), but I need to think of _something_ positive given the clusterflop this season's been.

Bravo!!!
BH was never going to be a part of a winning future, and CB is just not Nba super star material.
Both were beneficiaries of GA talent, and ultimatelyy paid the price for his immaturity.
It is imperative that AJ also hit the road. Do not know why it has taken so long to realize the futility of the Big 3.
They never meshed and with BH and Ds were pathetic imposters of a contending team.
I pray we go Young, pun intended.
Although I do not like to blame the deceased, AP was never a good owner. He was clueless talent wise as far as players and front office. His finger prints are all over this franchise, and the impressions are not good.
Time to start over and go with physical, passionate and skilled players.
It will be a slow process, but hope springs eternal!!!!

The NBA is experiencing league-wide losses. Consider the Wizards trailblazers in an effort to dump salaries and decrease big longterm contracts. The commissioner, owners, and front office personnel are very interested in cutting salaries of the current and future players. So Arenas better watch out, because they will be looking to use him as an example. The Wizards will probably make a few more salary moves and start with a clean slate. But that's okay, because hopefully we will be able to see the developement of new young talent with adjusted salaries(by negotiation time it will be the league wide norm that gigantic contracts are a thing of the past). The Wizards could still get someone like Rudy Gay, when he sees that free agency isn't bringing in huge salaries.

About the Blatche/Augustin discussion: I was surprised to hear DJ was shooting only 37%. Turns out, however, that this is because he's taking 45% of his shots from outside the 3 point line. That puzzled me because his strength has always been penetration and those acrobatic jumpers in the lane. But I think this change is because Ray Felton has won the job and Augustin is coming in as a change of pace. Felton is shooting much better than ever from outside but he still takes only 18% of his shots from behind the arc. So I'm guessing that when DJ comes in, it's with instructions from Larry Brown to draw the defense back out away from the basket. Augustin is shooting a respectable 37% from outside.

Would I trade him for Blatche? Not without a sweetener. Ray Felton is playing well but if his shooting decides to go south (again), Brown will want a reliable backup.

"t's called adaptive management. Once in a while I can be baited into this discussion. Look, I'm far from the most knowledgeable person on basketball GM moves, but I understand management, and good managers make their decisions in the here and now, and recognize that decision points and strategies change. Without a doubt, Grunfeld made the right moves with Miller and Foye, based on the team as it existed at that time. Second guessing can conclude the big three could no longer perform and a few of the perennial pessimists can even accurately say they made that call all along, but success is based on optimism, and Grunfeld managed based on that last summer, and is conducting adaptive management now. There is no doubt the Bullets and Wizards have had far more than their share of poor results, but Grunfeld had a strategy with the best chance for success that could be reasonably assembled." posted by ragtop4spd

LOL. Minus the jargon, sounds like you're saying Ernie guessed wrong about his team and the moves that looked smart in the off-season have turned to cream of wheat.

I'd agree with that. He'll pay with his job, most likely, because NBA owners, like the corporate types, believe that the bus can't turn around unless there's at least one body under the wheels. I doubt he'll regret any of it -- like Butler and Haywood, he'll be glad for a fresh start.

As we like to say in the biz world, where they never liked English in the first place: "ATEOTD-GF-IIWII"

IF you want to be angry: Ted Leonsis says he offered to buy the Washington Wizards at "one of the highest prices ever paid for an NBA team," an amount that was apparently "hundreds of millions" short of satisfying the Pollin family. The sale is now in semi-binding arbitration. The team went from one that owed ~8mill in luxury tax, (going into several out years) to one (if it can shed ~2.8mil. more)will receive 3mill. each year from the league (going several years out).I think the was about Basketball and not the sale, but the affects of these moves on the sale should have been mentioned/explored somewhere in the Wapo

There are 14 people on the active roster and 2 suspended for the rest of the year. Must one be released or a 2 for 1 deal made?
There is no true center, so Jamison for Ilgauskas makes sense - Gooden to PF.
Until Gil's contract expires, the roster can be filled with vet minimum players, we can guarantee that there will be 5 starters. The Wiz could probably even make money with revenue sharing and a payroll between 40 and 50K. That's a way to play a "short stack."
The final question is "Are there any young coaches out there that do player development?"

Posted by: lrmc623 | February 14, 2010 9:04 AM | Report abuse

Why do we need to bring in a way over the hill center this year? I am not saying there aren't other reasons to that trade, but who cares if we have a "true" center or not this year. First off, half the teams are playing strong PF's at center, so Gooden would be fine, but we also should be playing mcgee and Blatche as much as we can to see if either they get better or not. Lastly, winning now doesn't make a bit of difference. We'd have to go .700 ball the rest of the way to get into the playoffs and that most likely isn't happening unless we trade for Lebron AND Kobe.

Samson, little argument from me, except I'm placing my money on Grunfeld staying, based on these thoughts:
-they have enough players to spread the blame to (push under the bus)
-in my book it is best to keep the experienced GM

The counter argument is that ownership would connect Grunfeld too strongly to this fiasco (he assembled obviously). Plus I don't know the GM alternatives that might be out there. I still support keeping Grunfeld and Saunders and then assemble the new team.

ESPN on the trade (Hollinger):
"Sum it up, and the logic appears more straightforward for Washington than for Dallas. The Wizards had a goal (cutting money) and accomplished it, though without the talent upside they might have wanted. The Mavs have committed to putting an extra $30 million toward their goal (winning a title), yet we're not certain they've put themselves much closer to the promised land.

Getting rid of Stevenson was paramount in any trade discussions. The fact simply, is that we have to shed any bad contracts now before new ownership takes over. Ernie pulled one on Cuban, the Mavs still don't have what it takes to compete with the Lakers , let alone the Nuggets. Cuban gets to "sell" his fans on the fact that they are better, but they are really old and slow. Haywood and Butler won't change the fact that the Mavs are going nowhere.

ragtop4spd, I would actually enjoy watching those guys play big minutes despite the losses and ugly episodes. I bet they can put a fun brand of ball out there and real fans will appreciate the team is necessarily (finally) see who's who and what's what.

But I fear we're going to see Gooden and Howard replace BTH/CB minutes...

ESPN on the trade (Hollinger):
That said, we need a few more days before we can issue our final verdicts: The Mavs and Wizards still have until 3 p.m. ET on Thursday to make trades that cast a fresh light on Saturday's big deal, and it's those follow-up trades that might change the final score

This trade has essentially opened more doors for two important reasons.The Gooden contract, which is expiring at the end of the season, is far more valuable than the Stevenson contract, which could not come off the books until after next season. Secondly, Gooden is a big man. For teams trying to make a "push" in the playoffs, he should be seen as a much more valuable commodity than Stevenson ever would have.Ernie's biggest obstacle was to unload that deal, and he did it.We still have several days to move Gooden if we choose. Gooden gives us value heading into the home stretch of the trade deadline. If another team expresses enough interest in Gooden to unload either a young big or a useful draft choice, Ernie will then pull the trigger. We actually have Gooden, Jamison, and Miller to peddle to other teams, and have more cap space than we did yesterday.Several people have posted that no top free agents will come here next year.And,they are right. Ernie also knows. Therefore, give him until Thursday to finish this cleanup, and don't be surprised if Gooden is dealt as well.

"The counter argument is that ownership would connect Grunfeld too strongly to this fiasco (he assembled obviously). Plus I don't know the GM alternatives that might be out there. I still support keeping Grunfeld and Saunders and then assemble the new team.
Posted by: ragtop4spd"

It's a good point -- Gilbert Arenas, by effing up so publicly, may have taken some of the heat off Ernie. "Who could manage an idiot like that?" the NBA types may decide. "It was Abe's fault for giving him that contract in the first place". Owners know who really makes those decisions.

New owners like fresh starts. The losing just reinforces that. Grunfeld may stay around for a transition, but at some point, without a dramatic increase in wins, he's burnt whole wheat toast.

"In conversations with Houston for Tracy McGrady's expiring contract, the Wizards were also hoping to pry a rotation player such as Kyle Lowry, Carl Landry or Luis Scola. The Rockets, of course, were willing to sacrifice any of them."

Were or weren't? And I think Jamison is looking to get "away", not "a way", though the Freudian transcription is telling.

Have the WaPo editors gone on break during the storm? The online version should very quickly be error free; it takes a second to fix minor errors.

" Haywood and Butler won't change the fact that the Mavs are going nowhere.Posted by: Raef"

I'm in the minority here -- I think Butler and Haywood help the Mavs. Even Stevenson, if he sticks. It gives Dallas another big defensive center -- they'll need that in the playoffs -- plus Butler is healthier and a better 3 point shooter (at least this season) than Howard.

Gooden and Howard, paradoxically, might actually help the Wiz.

But from Washington's perspective, the trade wasn't really about what happens on the court.

If EG unloads Jamison and moves Gooden for something as raef suggests...solid audition for the next owner, and if it's Leonsis- I bet he stays. Getting these moves done means the team will have huge CAP flexibility even with Gil's contract staying in place.

But somebody with a long term view needs to get in there quick. In all seriousness, this team should be setting a foundation to target the Durantula in 2012.

Coach up JM and NY, draft a big PF, another top5 pick next season...be ready to make a splash. It can be done and as another poster said, team's have to run on optimism rather than wallow in crap that Josh Howard said 3yrs ago as some people would have the org do

I think that Ernie will stay. His moves on draft day put the Wizzies on the preseason list of contenders.
He gets the pieces and it's up to the coach to make them work.
This just never worked.
Ernies fault?????
Flips Fault???
Players fault????
Moot points.
Second half of season is gonna be hard to watch.

If Z and the CAVS #1 would move JAMISON's contract I would do the deal just to get out from under. And the difference would reduce the club's luxury tax hit by 100K.

It looks to me like GOODEN is to replace JAMISON, and HOWARD is BUTLER's sub. The other two are just to try to get picks in the upcoming draft.

ROSS has a player option next year so the club controls him. I think he's aimed at D-MAC's slot. At 1.15 million in 2010-11, he's probably at the pay level we would re-sign McGUIRE. Either he's traded, or he replaces D-MAC depending on what the FLIPPER sees in QR's court time this year. He's in audition mode.

IMHO, SINGLETON is strictly back-up on an expiring. If he's a pleasant surprise, we re him up. If not, well, nothing lost because he's not the reason the trade was made in the first place.

Luxury tax $$$$ was the reason. That, and the players simply did not mesh. Thank ERNIE and GILO' ZERO's contracts for that.

I'm in the minority here -- I think Butler and Haywood help the Mavs. Even Stevenson, if he sticks. It gives Dallas another big defensive center -- they'll need that in the playoffs -- plus Butler is healthier and a better 3 point shooter (at least this season) than Howard.

Posted by: Samson151 | February 14, 2010 10:35 AM

Sampson,
I'm with you. the trade helps the Mavs for their playoff run.It also helps the Wizards financially, especially not knowing the Arenas verdict.The Mavs are 11-12 since January 1st. They can't play defense and I believe they had won 11 straight 1 pt. games this year.That means they are close to being real average. That does not cut it in the NBA. They don't have a #1 pk. this year and this team is aging by the minute. I believe Cuban relized that he was not going to land one of the top free agents this offseason with Dampier's expiring contract as well as Howard's. So he made this deal to prevent the Mav's slide from getting much worse. I believe Cuban folded due to the pressure he has been recieving by the fans to try and win a championship while Dirk is in his prime.He has always been a sucker for bad contracts and bad personell decisions. Ernie simply got a deal THIS franchise needed to make. I don't believe he is done by any means. What Ernie did was bring the Wizards more flexibility for the week ahead.

"We'd have to go .700 ball the rest of the way to get into the playoffs..."

PLAYOFFS??? YOUR TALKING ABOUT PLAYOFFS??? ;)

"I'm in the minority here -- I think Butler and Haywood help the Mavs."

No you're not, they are going to help them bigtime. Both of them have to be salavating right now because they are actually going to go to the playoffs. Brendan can only help Dirk, and Caron now becomes a third/fourth option for that team.

I'll be rooting for Dallas this year in the playoffs. Those guys will always be Wizards to me and I hope they do well.

They just need to treat Jamison right and put him on a team that can go deep into the playoffs. Sending him somewhere that he's just going to fade away would be absolutely horrid. He deserves so much more.

As far as Arenas goes, well, they aren't going to be able to void that contract so maybe, just maybe, they can get a draft pick or two when they are forced to trade him this summer.

"That's what I'm afraid of!"

Yeah, I wish EG would trade himself. Ted has to make a change when he takes over the team. When you're trading your entire team away that took you 6-7 years to build, and you have let guys go that have helped other teams, your draft picks stink, and your "star" plays with gunz, you have to look at yourself in the mirror at some point. This was 100% EG's team and he flat out blew it.

Is EG breaking the team up just to break it up? Or is there a purpose behind this? Other than getting cap space this is an okay deal. Yeah, space is important but it's not everything.

Short term, this is a win for the Mavs. Haywood fills a big hole and Butler gives them another solid offensive threat although I see him having the same problems with Nowitzki that he had with Arenas. E.g., standing and watching.

I still want to know how EG is including the Arenas situation in these moves. Is he basing them on the view that GA will be back with the team? Or not?

Interesting to hear EG made an attempt to move AB. Assuming AJ is going to be gone as well, that would lead me to think Gooden fills in for the season and the intent is to draft a PF. Of course, maybe no one is looking ahead that far and it's all about clearing books.

EG cashed in on Cubano's constant desperation imho, because at best Haywood just replaces Dampier and Caron isnt that big an addition unless he suddenly flips the switch and plays like he did 2 seasons ago. Will be cool to see those guys in the postseason though, hopefully BTH proves me wrong and produces more than ZEROs in the 4th quarters

I believe Dallas made the bad moves in this trade. The Mavs picked up Caron to play the shooting guard and we all know how that worked here. The Mavs are also a team that has an outstanding point guard in Jason Kidd. How do you think he's going to feel when they are running down court and he passes the ball to CB and CB starts to dribble to create his shot. We know that dribbling will be taking away the assist. Brendan. Haywood wasn't able to get consistent minutes from 3 coaches’ .The Mavericks also took on an extra 16 million dollars for next year and this is without Brendon Haywood’s contract. The Wizards on the other hand have picked up contracts that are very appealing to other teams as trade bait. They can also use some of that money to pay off the salary of the soon to be fired coach Phillip (Flipper) Saunders and the best part of the whole deal is Debrick will never wear a Wizard uniform again. I also believe that the wizards could be trading AJ to the Cavalers and Big (Z) and a draft pick will be coming. I don't believe JJ HIckson will be coming though

I hate to say it, but I think this team's death warrant was signed when Eddie Jordan was fired early on last season. You didn't hear about any problems between Arenas and Butler when Jordan was coaching. It was Saunders' new system that brought Arenas and Butler into conflict. I'm not saying that Saunders isn't a good coach, but now the team will have to be built around his concept of play. I think that if Jordan were still coaching these Wizards, we would be looking at a .500-plus record. With that kind of record, maybe the whole Arenas-Crittenden thing never happens?

The Cleveland Cavaliers and Phoenix Suns are closing in on a deal that would send All-Star forward Amare Stoudemire to Cleveland, according to sources with knowledge of the negotiations.

Stoudemire
Stoudemire

The Cavaliers would send Zydrunas Ilgauskas and J.J. Hickson to Phoenix in exchange for Stoudemire, one of the league's most dominant big men.

While Cleveland remains in talks with several other teams, the club, from management down to the players, has settled on Stoudemire as its first choice.

The ball is in Phoenix's court. The Suns are mulling whether the financial relief provided by Ilgauskas' $12 million contract and the young and talented Hickson are enough for them to part with Stoudemire.

Cleveland believes the addition of Stoudemire would all but seal LeBron James' re-signing with the team when he becomes a free agent this summer. The Cavaliers are also prepared to sign Stoudemire, who has one year and $17 million remaining on his contract, to a long-term contract extension once the season ends.

But getting back to Jamison. The Wizards have to think long and hard about how they would benefit from keeping Jamison, who will make $28 million over the next two seasons. He will be 35 at the end of his deal and this could be their best chance to move him. I had a recent conversation with a rival league executive who told me that the Wizards' asking price for Jamison is unreasonable for a 33-year-old player "on a bad contract." The executive told me that whenever a team starts asking for too much, they are usually reluctant about making a deal happen. Barring some mindblowing deal, Jamison should stick around. CBSSports.com

One should not plan to draft per position, you just pick the best avaliable.I think most of the mistakes done by EG in the past 4 years draft nights is trying to look what we need, this type of drafting might work for top 4 teams who want to develp a talent for specific position,not for teams like wiz who need the service of every player to be better.
I think this year we will hit the lotery just on our 9 year and pick the kentakey PG.
I saw his game last night,i think he is just like parker with better talent and shooting touch.I am not sure about his defense.

WHAT MAXIMUM FREE AGENT IN HIS RIGHT MIND WOULD WANT TO PLAY FOR THIS FRANCHISE NEXT YEAR?? NOTE TO ERNIE: IF YOUR DEAL JAMISON, FORGET THE SALARY CAP RELIEF; GET BACK SOME PROSPECTS. IF THIS IDEA SEEMS FOREIGN TO YOU, CHECK WITH ANDY MACPHAIL DOWN THE ROAD FROM YOU FOR FURTHER INSTRUCTIONS

Pheonix should do the deal. They don't have a #1, Stoudemire does not want to stay,they have an aging point guard with limited defensive skills, and they were not going anywhere with Stoudemire even IF he were to stay. Cleveland should do it because it is a much better deal than the Wizards can offer, and brings the city of Cleveland a championship. If this happens, Boston or Miami may look to the Wizards as a final desperation move, which could finally net us some draft picks we so urgently need.

Sources: Hickson, Ilgauskas to SunsComment Email Print Share By Chris Broussard
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The Cleveland Cavaliers and Phoenix Suns are closing in on a deal that would send All-Star forward Amare Stoudemire to Cleveland, according to sources with knowledge of the negotiations.

Stoudemire

The Cavaliers would send Zydrunas Ilgauskas and J.J. Hickson to Phoenix in exchange for Stoudemire, one of the league's most dominant big men.

While Cleveland remains in talks with several other teams, the club, from management down to the players, has settled on Stoudemire as its first choice.

The ball is in Phoenix's court. The Suns are mulling whether the financial relief provided by Ilgauskas' $12 million contract and the young and talented Hickson are enough for them to part with Stoudemire

It would not surprise me to see AJ for Z to clear cap space. Also, the Cavs have a guard on the second of 2 10-day contracts so they could take one of the low paid guards, or even Critt to release him. (Ross, Boykins, or D-mac might fill the bill.) Mike James could be the backup PG, why not?

I'd never thought that the Nationals would be the area's best chance for a major winner (outside of the Caps), but that's the way the next 5 years seem to be playing out.

I hate to say it, but I think this team's death warrant was signed when Eddie Jordan was fired early on last season. You didn't hear about any problems between Arenas and Butler when Jordan was coaching. It was Saunders' new system that brought Arenas and Butler into conflict. I'm not saying that Saunders isn't a good coach, but now the team will have to be built around his concept of play. I think that if Jordan were still coaching these Wizards, we would be looking at a .500-plus record. With that kind of record, maybe the whole Arenas-Crittenden thing never happens?

Time to move forward (sigh).

Posted by: bertbkatz |
******************************************

The Wizards didn't listen to EJ either. I remember times when Eddie had to bench the starting 5 also for lack of defensive effort. The truth is CB started to get jealous of all the attention GA and Jamison was getting. I think the wizards were doomed when CB and AJ both became Allstars without GA.

If amare to the cavs happened, I wouldn't be shocked to see the suns make a move for Jamison. The Suns are built to compete now, with the great yet aging steve nash and similarly aging grant hill. Do you really think that they are going to go with louis amundson as their PF? Hickson might have some promise, but he isn't the guy you go into the playoffs with right now. Jamison fits their uptempo, offense first style. From their perspective, trading for Jamison -- though he is not dominant in the paint like amare, but still provides similar numbers and similar lack of D -- makes sense, aspecially at a half to two thirds of amare's contract.

According to sources, there’s a fear among some members of the Cavs’ organization that, while Stoudemire would be a good long-term pairing with LeBron, incorporating him on the floor with Shaq might present too difficult an adjustment for the rest of the season. In Phoenix, Shaq and Stoudemire were unable to make the low-post, high-post thing work – and that was with a world-class point guard, Steve Nash. With the Cavs, Shaq and Amar’e clogging the middle might frustrate LeBron and turn him into too much of a jump shooter.

Those of you seeing this as a positive prelude to the presumed ownership change, check your attics, basements, closets, junk drawers. I'm sure your find a couple of those old AOL freebie disks. Oh, I just can't wait to see what Leonsis will do with this team I've rooted for since 1972.

I bet the Thunder are salivating right now because if Pheonix does this deal,the Suns wil have "thrown in the towell" as far as the playoffs go. This will give the Thunder another lottery pick along with their own 1st. Oklahoma is a few pieces to the puzzle from being VERY dangerous for some time to come.

Those of you seeing this as a positive prelude to the presumed ownership change, check your attics, basements, closets, junk drawers. I'm sure your find a couple of those old AOL freebie disks. Oh, I just can't wait to see what Leonsis will do with this team I've rooted for since 1972.

(Probably move it. Perhaps to the Meadowlands.)

Posted by: WilliamCarr | February 14, 2010 12:37 PM

Try and a make a point when you post. No ofense, but your not making ANY sense.

Damn, according to some reports, Cleveland never even made the Wizards an offer for Jamison.
Ferry is young, but he knows Stoudemire is a power forward and Jamison is really a small forward with slow feet and no ball handling abilities.
Be prepared to see Jamison break down bit by bit over the next two years in a Wizards uniform.

""According to a source, despite public comments to the contrary, Jamison has asked to be traded behind the scenes. James has also signed off on bringing Jamison, who he played with on Team USA in 2006, to the Cavs.""

Wow, I hope some of these players are saving money. Because what is coming sounds like it could be a new climate. As we all wait for the Lakers-Celtics-Cavs-Magic to load up their basket with golden eggs, keep in mind the next few years could be harder to market than another global warming summit. And Cuban might be the last person that can still overpay. Maybe he should acquire Jason Richardson and move the Mavs to Europe. This goose might be frozen.

i might be the only person that likes this deal... the wiz just got a lot leaner, more athletic, and got rid of some dead weight all in 1 deal... i would now like to see the wiz run and run and run some more w/ a more athletic line up...

If amare to the cavs happened, I wouldn't be shocked to see the suns make a move for Jamison. The Suns are built to compete now, with the great yet aging steve nash and similarly aging grant hill. Do you really think that they are going to go with louis amundson as their PF? Hickson might have some promise, but he isn't the guy you go into the playoffs with right now. Jamison fits their uptempo, offense first style. From their perspective, trading for Jamison -- though he is not dominant in the paint like amare, but still provides similar numbers and similar lack of D -- makes sense, aspecially at a half to two thirds of amare's contract.

Posted by: fundermental | February 14, 2010 12:27 PM | Report abuse

The only reason they want to unload Stoudemire (who is much better then Jamison and younger) is to save money. Why would they be interested in an inferior, older player that's owed more money and years on his contract?

"I'm in the minority here -- I think Butler and Haywood help the Mavs. Even Stevenson, if he sticks. It gives Dallas another big defensive center -- they'll need that in the playoffs -- plus Butler is healthier and a better 3 point shooter (at least this season) than Howard. "

I think it helps the Mavs, but not because Haywood and Butler are a huge talent upgrade over Gooden and Howard. The Mavs had a bad mix that wasn't gelling. They were looking to shake things up and get some fresh blood. This is change for change's sake for the Mavs. What they had wasn't working so now they're trying something different. They gave up offense for rebounding in Gooden for Haywood, and Butler and Howard are pretty much interchangeable when both are healthy. Of course, Howard hasn't been healthy for a while, but that's not a talent issue. But this is hardly a slam dunk for the Mavs. Butler had trouble playing the good soldier and being third in the pecking order behind Arenas and Jamison. What reason is there to think he'll enjoy being third in the pecking order behind Dirk and Terry any more? And Gooden was playing backup minutes at C. We all know how much Haywood loves that, right? Like any trade, this is a gamble for the Mavs. But it's a worthwhile gamble because (A) they were going in the wrong direction and had to do something and (B) it didn't cost them anything to take it.

The problem is Ernie exposed his hand to early. He should have waited 4 more days and maybe the Mavs would have offered next years draft pick.

Now every GM in the NBA knows Ernie is salay dumping and they can wait for a deal that will benefit them and not worry about making a win-win deal?

The only way Ernie is going to move AJ is by giving him away. That's great for the Pollin family because they won't have to pay any luxury tax money this year but it's bad for the future of the Wizards.

They need draft picks to replenish the roster not mid level free agents?

Would you have turned down the money in GIL's contract? I know I wouldn't. No, I lay blame at the feet of the decision to contract with him in the first place.

When he issued that edict to sign JAMISON or "I walk" I would have opened the door for him. Then none of this would have happened, at least, not to the WIZARDS. Some other team would have had him, and his injuries. And without that horrendous contract.

No other club would have been that stupid. This franchise has to have the most gutless, brain-dead ownership and front office in the NBA.

Posted by: glawrence007 | February 14, 2010 8:18 AM | Report abuse

If you want to dump on Ernie, you have to get in line behind me.

I've been crapping on the guy's decisions ever since he re-signed Gilbert - which I said was a mistake and got shouted down by the sychophants who think 40 foot 3-pointers are great, but never seemed to notice that Gilbert is the WORST defender in the league who is also a starting guard.

Anyhow, my comments were more about Gilbert being a cancerous and divisive force on his own team. I don't blame him for taking the $$, but I blame him for being a petty and immature prankster who has sunk his own ship.

They need draft picks to replenish the roster not mid level free agents?

Posted by: bulletsfan78 | February 14, 2010 1:56 PM

We have had draft picks that would have helped rebuild our franchise but we have traded them away. Richard Hamilton, Devin Harris, Rubio,Curry or whomever you would have wanted this year at number 5, Blair with the 2nd round pick. No more quick fixes blow it up and take it one step at a time.

Posted by: anacostia85 | February 14, 2010 1:31 PM
Anacostia, the problem is - the 3 contracts the Wiz got out of are nowhere near the size of Jamison's contract - much less Arenas'. None of them had more than 1 more year left on them. They cannot rebuild with 2 contracts like that on the books. And with all due respect to Mike Wilbon, he's just not a competent basketball analyst - going back to when he lauded the Ben Wallace for Ike Austin trade.

Anacostia, the problem is - the 3 contracts the Wiz got out of are nowhere near the size of Jamison's contract - much less Arenas'. None of them had more than 1 more year left on them. They cannot rebuild with 2 contracts like that on the books. And with all due respect to Mike Wilbon, he's just not a competent basketball analyst - going back to when he lauded the Ben Wallace for Ike Austin trade.

Posted by: Giveussomehope | February 14, 2010 2:07 PM

Jamison will be dealt this year. Arenas is still a young guard with value and it won't be hard to trade him away next year. If that is the new owner's intent. We may have a different idea of rebuilding. Mine is that you keep your draft picks and develop your own talent instead of throwing out big contracts for free agents like the Redskins always do.

haywood is just what the mavs needed, a legitimate 7' back-up, for their already legitmate 7' back-up that starts. combine the 2 and you get 18 points and close to 20 rebounds a game. not bad from your center position. caron at worst is a healthy josh howard without the 'tude. much better for chemistry. will they win the championship with these changes? probably not. what the wizards got doesn't really matter because they arn't winning anything this year anyway. gooden may only be here for a cup of coffee if someone offers a pick for him. howard won't be here next year. this was done only for tax break and cap space and hopefully a pick for gooden. wizards now need to be the riverboat gambler with no "tells" sitting across from the rest of the league. they have some things that might be attractive to some contenders, but you only get it for picks. c'mon wiz, turn on the poker channel and see how it's done.

Grunfailed could have waited a few more days and would have gotten a much better deal from either Portland, Houston or Philly. The worst case scenario would be to get a similar deal right before the deadline. I would love to play poker with the man.
Now, he needs to find a trade partner for the upcoming 1st pick.

Rebuilding is going to be painful. While I don't hold Grunfeld in contempt has some do, I am concerned about his ability to evaluate college talent. His draft selections for the Wizards have been lacking. I hope Blatche and Young will get some playing time the second half of the season. We can know once and for all what we have in those players.

anything less than playing those guys who have been benched most of the season is the sham of all shams. let us see what mcguire, mcgee, young, and blatch can do. so what if they stink the joint up and lose terribly...that's been this season anyway. at least you can see that your bench stinks too...or not. i, for one think they at least deserve the opportunity to show us what they got...or don't got. do it!

I've been crapping on the guy's decisions ever since he re-signed Gilbert - which I said was a mistake and got shouted down by the sychophants who think 40 foot 3-pointers are great, but never seemed to notice that Gilbert is the WORST defender in the league who is also a starting guard.

Anyhow, my comments were more about Gilbert being a cancerous and divisive force on his own team. I don't blame him for taking the $$, but I blame him for being a petty and immature prankster who has sunk his own ship.

Posted by: p1funk | February 14, 2010 2:05 PM | Report abuse

I don't get in line behind no man p1funk. But I will stand shoulder to shoulder with you on those comments.

Where have the Grunfailed sympathizers disappeared? Just a couple of months ago, there were plenty of them on this blog. According to them, every bad move that Grunfailed made was because 190 years old Abe forced him to make them from his wheelchair. He also made him draft Pecherov, McGee and Young...

How long at this point before the Wizards return to a four year stretch of playoff appearances? Three years, or another decade?

Posted by: JPRS | February 14, 2010 3:35 PM

It takes how ever long it takes. The entire structure has to be rebuilt. We need a new set of eyes evaluating talent, we need new strength and conditioning we need new scouts. Kal is right when he says it is the player's responsibility to develop himself as Jordan, Bird, Magic etc have done in the past but having said that we can't leave it up to the player because we end up blowing money if they are lazy or have no idea how to improve themselves. I would have these guys in the classroom grilling them on situations. When my young players take the floor they should know what their jobs are if they are lost that is the coaches fault in the end. There are a host of NBA players that could be hired to come in and tutor our players in the offseason as well as the regular season. We need background checks to see who smokes weed, who sold drugs, who beats up their girlfriends, who is most likely to have a work ethic.

Even in those instances where his gambles didn't pay off, I at least saw a case for making the wager. In terms of deals he's done well.

In terms of draft picks, sure quality starters occasionally fall to #16 or later; but the odds are still against finding a gem at that point in the draft. It happens, but the odds are still less than 10 percent that a 18 or higher pick will become a starter on a .500 or better team.

It's not like Grunfeld selected Pech with a top lottery pick in a draft packed with talent. The guy was an 18th overall selection.

In terms of GMs if the new owner can find a better guy than Grunfeld: By all means, bring him in.

However, if you look at EG's balance sheet, he's still made more moves than bad ones in his time in Washington. Even with the benefit of hindsight the off-season trade for Miller and Foye has some merit to it.

100% agreed, anacostia. There's a reason the offers Ernie has received are underwhelming. Flip's not my cup of tea, but there's no compelling reason to think any coach could win with the players currently on the roster.

3) That's why he gave AJ the crazy contract -- Gil insisted on it; and

4) That's why he trade the #5 pick for Foye and Miller

All 4 of those decisions have worked out horribly and were made to appease or fit in with Gil. I believe that Abe wanted Gil resigned and happy and that's why Ernie did it. But all of the bad flows from tying the team's fortunes to keeping Gil.

I also think that gutting the team now also makes it easier to negotiate with Gil who won't want to be on this crappy team either.

Players that even come within a whiff of that kind of caliber only come around about once every 5 to 10 years -- and even then you still have to be in a position as a team to land that player in the draft.

"Why would Ted want the dumping of salaries that increases the price of Team that he has to pay.The dumping of salary off the books essentially will be absorbed by the buyer of the Team, via a higher appraisal price, paid by one Mr. Ted Leonsis.Now if it appears I am making things up and this dosen't make a damn bit of sense, then somebody explain it to me quick.LarryInClintonMD."

I'm not sure I understand your question. The eventual sale price will depend on the value that's established for the club and its assets. Oversimplified, that value will be potential revenue minus anticipated expenses, or if you prefer, assets minus liabilities. If Leonsis pays more for the club, it'll be because it has a much healthier bottom line.

That changes if Leonsis isn't the buyer and the business somehow finds its way into an open market, like an auction. Then the valuation becomes secondary to the psychology of the bidders.

you have to look ahead 4 years, 3 at best to start looking like a viable team, and that's only if some of the current benchdwellers pan out to be players. also take into account any future player additions cannot fall into the hole of uselessness. until then it will be mediocrity at best.

It's hard to be too ecstatic about this trade, because of what it represents (e.g. the end of a better-than-average run).

How long at this point before the Wizards return to a four year stretch of playoff appearances? Three years, or another decade?

Posted by: JPRS | February 14, 2010 3:35 PM

The move actually represents a new beginning.This team was never constructed to win a championship.By stripping it down now and acquiring a few centerpieces along with some cap space, having a few ping pong balls fall our way and recruiting athletes that don't mind playing defense, we may actually be competitive within a 3 year time frame and hopefully begin a playoff run within 4 years. But 3 years is the least amount of time, and the "culture" around this team has to dramatically change by the 2011 draft. Any moves that Ernie has up his sleeve in the next few days along with Arenas' March 26th court date, are going to be critcal as far as how soon and what direction this franchise takes in order to be competitive again. The good news is that we do not look to sit tight, and I believe it will be at least refreshing to see some new faces mesh with some of our unproven talent as their opportunity arises. Team chemistry is another factor which will help determine how soon we can be competitive, but a lot has to happen beforehand. Our hope as fans is that we get a few breaks our way, and that the team can take a new direction while moving foreward.

"True PGs Rajon Rondo and Kyle Lowry were still available when he took Pecherov. You can't exactly give him a pass for doing that.Posted by: Firuz1"

It bears repeating: Ernie Grunfeld doesn't need a 'pass' for passing up Rajon Rondo. Remember that Rondo was actually drafter 21st, not by Boston, but by Phoenix, who traded him to Boston. The Celts choice at #7? Randy Foye, who they turned around and traded to Minnesota via Portland, who got Brandon Roy. So were the Celts idiots for passing on Rondo, or perhaps Roy, or even Rudy Gay who followed at #8, or geniuses for ending up with Rajon? Truth is, they had little notion how good he'd be. Neither did you or I. Or for that matter, Rajon Rondo.

Lowry went 24th, to Memphis. Maybe they should have rubbed their crystal ball and taken second rounder Paul Millsap instead -- lot of teams missed on him.

If we can shed AJ's contract, there'd be enough CAP room to throw serious money at Joe Johnson. Why not? Who can honestly say they wouldnt be ok with Gil and Johnson as the starting backcourt to open next season?

Why would he come here? He probably wouldnt, but he might if ownership has changed and there's a perception things are "different now." And with all the financial woes the league is experiencing, maybe there wont be quite as much money out there as people think.

Overall point is that if EG can move AJ, there is a ton of flexibility for the team (even with Gil's deal) plus there's a top pick on the way.

The first step in building a winning culture within the franchise is believing it can be done...taking a serious run at player like Johnson while not looking twice at anybody over 30 is a great start.

If we can shed AJ's contract, there'd be enough CAP room to throw serious money at Joe Johnson. Why not? Who can honestly say they wouldnt be ok with Gil and Johnson as the starting backcourt to open next season?

Why would he come here? He probably wouldnt, but he might if ownership has changed and there's a perception things are "different now." And with all the financial woes the league is experiencing, maybe there wont be quite as much money out there as people think.

Overall point is that if EG can move AJ, there is a ton of flexibility for the team (even with Gil's deal) plus there's a top pick on the way.

The first step in building a winning culture within the franchise is believing it can be done...taking a serious run at player like Johnson while not looking twice at anybody over 30 is a great start.

Posted by: divi3 | February 14, 2010 4:51 PM

All you would be doing is making sure you are once again medicore. Joe Johnson is not a superstar. He is a very good player but he is not a MJ Lebron Kobe type player. We need to rebuild period not quick fixes.

""So were the Celts idiots for passing on Rondo, or perhaps Roy, or even Rudy Gay who followed at #8, or geniuses for ending up with Rajon? Truth is, they had little notion how good he'd be. Neither did you or I. Or for that matter, Rajon Rondo.""

Posted by: Samson151 | February 14, 2010 4:31 PM

Are you sure Rajon Rondo knew he'd never be good? I sure never heard him say that, so I'll just assume that's your wishful thinking.

As for what you and I didn't know, we aren't paid to know what a solid NBA prospect is. However, that's Ernie's realm and he failed, much as he did with low-BB IQ players Young and McGee.

I'm not trashing Grunfeld, but he's been a mediocre or below-average evaluator of draft talent. You disagree? If so, point to the guy he's drafted in his seven years here who's shown himself to clearly be part of the solution looking forward.

In a perfect world where everyone has 20-20 foresight, sure I'd dock him for points.

You have to see things though from the point of view of where the team was at at that point (e.g. the focus was finding talent at PF or C -- not in the back-court).

Paul Millsap's was probably a bigger miss in terms of the Wizards needs at that time. Still Millsaps and Rondo were the exceptions, not the rule. Counter-balanced against that you have EG finding a guy like Michael Redd in the 2nd round when he was with the Bucks. Even a guy like Blatche has outperformed his draft position significantly. Same story with Dominic McGuire.

In terms of EG's track record, he's a better than average GM in terms of finding talent late in a draft. He's a better than average deal-maker. There may be better GMs than him in terms of finding talent early.

All things considered though EG isn't as bad as some people are suggesting he is. He may not be a Popovich or a Jerry West, but he's still better than average.

Of course, if the franchise can find a better option, it has no choice but to go in that direction. I don't think it's enough though just to say "Fire Ernie!" or "Ernie Sucks".

""You have to see things though from the point of view of where the team was at at that point (e.g. the focus was finding talent at PF or C -- not in the back-court).""

Posted by: JPRS | February 14, 2010 4:56 PM

Ernie has long held that he's a "best available player" kind of guy when it comes to the draft. Therefore, it would be inconsistent with that statement for him to reach on a PF/C of the likes of Pecherov. Sorry.

What's my reaction to this trade?? I'm officially done with this team at least for this season. I am as big a fan as you get... I watch every minute of every game, most games I watch 2 or 3 times (tivo). I will not watch a second of any Wizard game the rest of the season. I am fed up and done wasting my time with this garbage. I am tired of it. This season is beyond pathetic. Seriously!

I will pop in time to time to check this blog to keep up with any news, but that's it. I'm giving my time the rest of the season to the Caps.

I will look forward to the draft in hopes we keep our pick and don't sell it for cash. Wall is the prize... also some good bigs (Cousins, Davis, Favors).

Hope we move Jamison for his sake. Miller too. Start playing the young guys. We're now officially a DLeague team.

All things considered though EG isn't as bad as some people are suggesting he is. He may not be a Popovich or a Jerry West, but he's still better than average.

Of course, if the franchise can find a better option, it has no choice but to go in that direction. I don't think it's enough though just to say "Fire Ernie!" or "Ernie Sucks".

Posted by: JPRS | February 14, 2010 4:56 PM

He should not be fired for missing out on Rondo or Milsap..He should be fired for resigning Gilbert when he was injured. He should be fired for resigning Blatche when he was booked for picking up hookers. He should be fired for giving Jamison that ludicrous contract. He should be fired for trading away draft picks and for wasting the 2006 draft by picking both Pecherov and Veremeenko. Look at the 2007 draft Ernie took Nick Young and Fernandez was there as were Aaron Brooks & Wilson Chandler. In the 2nd round he took McGuire..right after that pick the Lakers get Gasol's brother....now look at him. Now we want Hickson and we went 1 pick after McGee in 2008 we want Batum he went at pick 25. The year we dealt Devin Harris to Dallas Iguodala was picked later as was Josh Smith & Al Jefferson.

"Are you sure Rajon Rondo knew he'd never be good? I sure never heard him say that, so I'll just assume that's your wishful thinking." posted by firuz1

Oh please. There was no reason for Rondo to think he'd be the best player to emerge from that draft. He didn't even start for the first year. He was a complementary player the year they won the title, and really emerged afterwards.

"As for what you and I didn't know, we aren't paid to know what a solid NBA prospect is. However, that's Ernie's realm and he failed, much as he did with low-BB IQ players Young and McGee."

Like every other GM in the league, Ernie deserves to be judged by his employer in comparison with his peers. If twenty NBA GMs passed on Rondo, and 23 passed on Kyle Lowry, and 46 on Paul Millsap, the worst you can say about Grunfeld is that he was no smarter than they were.

About Young and McGee: they haven't turned out much worse than others picked in those spots. Allegedly Ernie wanted Roy Hibbert but the Pacers grabbed him. McGee is actually a better prospect than most observers thought. You don't build successful NBA franchises drafting every year in the middle of the round. Ask any NBA GM.

"I'm not trashing Grunfeld, but he's been a mediocre or below-average evaluator of draft talent."

Of course you're trashing Grunfeld. It would be better if you just admitted it instead of pretending to be objective. You have a right to your opinion. I just find it illogical.

Is there any GM who says that he doesn't draft the "best player" available?

I mean come on.

Do you still believe in Santa Claus?

When you're building a team from scratch and drafting early of course you pick the best player (because every position is a need).

When you're a team that's trying to make a push deep into the playoffs you're going to strike a balance between need and best available.

If a team feels pretty comfortable with its overall position too, it might take a calculated risk on a player who won't even be available to play in the U.S. that year. A calculated risk by definition is a gamble that may or may not pan out. When you pick at #18 in the NBA draft there are no sure things. Even inside the lottery there is no such thing as a sure thing.

If you don't understand that basic fact . . . .

Of course you have the benefit of hindsight now. Let's remember though what you were saying draft night of 2006:

"Ernie you're a f-cking idiot! You just missed out on a sure-fire All-Star! How could you have passed up on Josh Boone! He was still available at #18!"

Part of the irony here is that if you took a poll of fans and sports writers about the GM who most deserved to lose his job in Feb. 2007, Boston GM Danny Ainge would have easily been in the top 5 and #1 on a bunch of lists. Were you one of the guys in Feb. 2007 who was saying: "That's crazy, Danny Ainge is a genius he just got Rajon Rondo who will some day be an All-Star". Of course you didn't. And if you say you did, well, that just makes you a liar.

The big question still stands: OK, you're convinced that EG needs to go. There is nothing that I can say to convince you otherwise. Fine. That's the easy part.

Let's put something on the record: Now who would you replace him with?

You got to love it when posters on here make comments such as:"how was he supposed to know that player A was going to be abysmal or how was he supposed to know before the draft that player B was better than player A?"
Do you realize or have slightly tought about the notion that one of the GM's main role is to have foresight by properly scouting talent?
Nothing against the man but he has failed miserably with a very high payroll and if 1st round playoff losses in a very weak eastern conference are your goal and are cause for celebration, then you epitomize exactly what's ailing this organization: LOW EXPECTATIONS.

""Oh please. There was no reason for Rondo to think he'd be the best player to emerge from that draft. He didn't even start for the first year. He was a complementary player the year they won the title, and really emerged afterwards.""

For the last time, your thoughts about whether Rondo knew he was good or the best or whatever are not based on facts or anything he said. It's based on your impressions of how talented he was or wasn't, which is not relevant in the least in terms of what's in his mind/heart. Or are you claiming to have ESP?

""Like every other GM in the league, Ernie deserves to be judged by his employer in comparison with his peers. If twenty NBA GMs passed on Rondo, and 23 passed on Kyle Lowry, and 46 on Paul Millsap, the worst you can say about Grunfeld is that he was no smarter than they were.""

No the worst I can say about him is he picked Pecherov and Veermeenko. No one else did. That puts him on Damn-I-Blew-It Island. All alone.

""About Young and McGee: they haven't turned out much worse than others picked in those spots. Allegedly Ernie wanted Roy Hibbert but the Pacers grabbed him. McGee is actually a better prospect than most observers thought. You don't build successful NBA franchises drafting every year in the middle of the round. Ask any NBA GM.""

Has McGee performed better than Hickson or Batum, just two of the guys drafted after him? The correct answer is "No, he has not."

""Of course you're trashing Grunfeld. It would be better if you just admitted it instead of pretending to be objective. You have a right to your opinion. I just find it illogical.""

No, if I were trashing him I'd bring up all the draft picks he's given away or blown and the bad contracts he's handed out that still hamper the team to this day. Logically, I would never mention that stuff. That would just be piling on.

All you would be doing is making sure you are once again medicore. Joe Johnson is not a superstar. He is a very good player but he is not a MJ Lebron Kobe type player. We need to rebuild period not quick fixes.

Posted by: anacostia85

I dont think he is Lebron or Kobe but who is? imho, johnson is an underrated player who penetrates and dishes as well as anybody in the league.

but the broader point is there are high quality players available every offseason, and if/when EG manages to move AJ...even stuck with gil's contract the wizards have flexibility and do not need to resign themselves to being terrible for years hoping to win the lotto the year an ubertalent is available

Well, I am happy for CB and BH, because they've worked hard and deserve an opportunity to get into the playoffs. I love AJ, but I believe he also deserves the opportunity to be traded to a team likely to make the playoffs. Most of us at sometime or another have worked in a toxic environment with all of the craziness and irrationality it promotes. These guys deserve a breath of fresh air.

Personally I would like to see Blatche, Young, McGuire and McGhee play 36+ minutes every night along with Foye, Miller, Boykins and James. These guys seem to be doing well under Saunders scheme. I agree with those of you that believe there is more trading to come. Perhaps someone is looking at Gooden, Jamison or others in a trade already in the works.

If you look at the wizards home page you only see 12 players and two of them are Crittendon and Arenas. Don't see pics of any of the four guys coming here, but CB, BH and DS are already listed on the Mavericks roster. Hmmmm??

With all the sports commentary and analysis available on the Web I think many of us could find some underrated young players with a whole lotta upside (look at Roger Mason Jr. for example). Maybe we need to sign up some good basketball scouts before moving forward. We need young players with an upside and/or some good 1st and 2nd round draft picks. Did anyone see the Rookie Vs Sophmore game and remember how some of them were thought not to be NBA ready??? Again, wee need someone in the organization who is able to pick out talent.

Ernie was willing to trade the 5th pick in the last year's draft for MM and Foye so the Wizards could compete?

But Dallas who really has a chance to compete for a title won't give up a 1st round pick (which would be about the 20th) in next years draft?

Is it because Ernie is a fool with the Wizards draft picks?"

One, they don't have a first round pick next year and, two, they gave up players and cap space instead. Don't be so dense in your negativity.

For all the other EG haters, be careful what you wish for. He took this franchise from perennial losers to 4 straight playoff appearances with 3 all stars on the team. A lot of bad luck struck after that string of success. And, his draft picks were late first rounders and second rounders where 90% of those players don't ever stay in the league. The draft is a crap shoot and even more so at that point. Does he have a sterling draft record with this team? No. But, overall, he has more successes than failures with all his moves with this team. That is undeniable as we went to the playoffs 4 straight years for the first time since the 70's. So, cherry pick and be as critical as you like, but replacing EG is not going as easy as you think.

For all the other EG haters, be careful what you wish for. He took this franchise from perennial losers to 4 straight playoff appearances with 3 all stars on the team. A lot of bad luck struck after that string of success. And, his draft picks were late first rounders and second rounders where 90% of those players don't ever stay in the league. The draft is a crap shoot and even more so at that point. Does he have a sterling draft record with this team? No. But, overall, he has more successes than failures with all his moves with this team. That is undeniable as we went to the playoffs 4 straight years for the first time since the 70's. So, cherry pick and be as critical as you like, but replacing EG is not going as easy as you think.

Posted by: rphilli721 | February 14, 2010 6:35 PM | Report abuse

I figured it wouldn't take long for one of Grunfailed sympathizers to show up. The draft is a crapshoot!!! Really? Do you realize that the GM's main role is to have foresight?
And are your expectations that low that making mediocre playoff appearances in a historically weak eastern conference is sufficient to please you?

* We got no current talent back.
* We got no future talent or assets back.
* We traded two cap-friendly deals (at least relatively so) for nothing.
* We didn't eliminate our luxury tax bill, we only took steps towards doing it, while sacrificing two valuable assets in the process.
* We didn't cut long-term salary (i.e. past 2012).
* We didn't get more creative in getting more value for our players and/or cutting our luxury tax bill.
* We traded the wrong guys first and may now be stuck with Antawn Jamison's bad contract.
* We didn't demonstrate any sort of long-term plan, both in the past (leading up to this deal) and the future (going past this deal).
* We seem to have misunderstood or misplayed the market, though obviously that could change in the coming days depending on future moves.
* We seem more concerned with currying favor among other GMs than helping our team.
* We didn't control the message at all, making us seem disingenuous to us fans."

We have had plenty of time to see what Blatche can do and he has shown only that he is very inconsistent...now with Haywood gone it is he and McGhee to do the rebounding and dirty work...Blatche did no dirty work before, always looking to shoot the jumper on the fringe of the 3pt line..

Not good for a big man..bad habits...the team will struggle to come close to winning even 10 more games this season....

The evidence is undeniable -- the later you pick in the draft, the lower the probability you find a break-through player. Even if you have a high lottery pick there are no guarantees that you'll pick in a draft with elite talent (e.g. only two of the 10 picks in 2001 turned out to be All-Star caliber talent, most of the picks that year haven't even sustained careers as NBA starters. Contrast that year with 2003 where there was a ton of talent. Finding a cornerstone in 2003 was like shooting fish in a barrel, the 2001 draft required a lot more skill).

So luck is an undeniable part of the process.

The year that you pick matters.

The draft position that you pick matters.

X-factors like health also matter (e.g. if you were in a position to draft a guy like Greg Oden would you have let him slip down the draft order?).

Would Jarvis Hayes be considered a bust if he'd avoided injuries? We'll never know. In his first two years though he showed promise.

For the EG haters out there though, add something constructive to the discussion -- go on the record and name a replacement who might serve the team's interests better going forward.

I don't think the NFL analogy holds though with the NBA. Two very different sports. You're also comparing a front office position with a coaching position.

A closer NBA analogy would be saying that the Nets were wise to fire Byron Scott when they had Lawrence Frank waiting in the wings. Age isn't the only factor that matters. It's also worth noting that Grunfeld is almost a half a decade younger than the Spurs one-time GM and current coach.

...Oberto and Miller will probably be next to go--and they will not get much in return. I can't see the Wiz getting equal value for NY or AB right now. They also may have to wait until the summer to deal AJ, not enough interest out there right now.

"I figured it wouldn't take long for one of Grunfailed sympathizers to show up. The draft is a crapshoot!!! Really? Do you realize that the GM's main role is to have foresight? And are your expectations that low that making mediocre playoff appearances in a historically weak eastern conference is sufficient to please you?Posted by: Utilityman1"

It's hard to draft stars, even in the first ten picks. Outside of those picks, you're mainly hoping to find contributing backups.

Two All-Stars and a couple up-and-comers in Bargnani and Gay. That's 40% after 3 full seasons of development. Foye, Morrison, Shel Williams and O'Bryant have been traded, and Tyrus Thomas is firmly on the block. Sene is back in France.

You have Lowry and Farmer, backup point guards for their respective clubs, and Josh Boone, who gets minutes on the NBA's worst team. Shannon Brown has morphed into something of a defensive specialist.

The point is, there are underachievers and outright busts scattered all through the draft, particularly among the big men. Would Ronnie Brewer or Lowry have been a success if they'd gone to the Wiz instead of Utah and Memphis (traded to Houston)? We can only speculate.

You can make indefensible claims like "the GM's role is foresight'(and the President's role is to always make the right decision, and the pitcher is supposed to get everybody out, and so forth) but ultimately, they're only human. Some of them are smarter about b-ball than others, but most of them are smarter about b-ball than their critics in the peanut gallery.

Hey, it's a free country, and there's no law against unjustified criticism.

Two All-Stars and a couple up-and-comers in Bargnani and Gay. That's 40% after 3 full seasons of development. Foye, Morrison, Shel Williams and O'Bryant have been traded, and Tyrus Thomas is firmly on the block. Sene is back in France.

You have Lowry and Farmer, backup point guards for their respective clubs, and Josh Boone, who gets minutes on the NBA's worst team. Shannon Brown has morphed into something of a defensive specialist.

The point is, there are underachievers and outright busts scattered all through the draft, particularly among the big men. Would Ronnie Brewer or Lowry have been a success if they'd gone to the Wiz instead of Utah and Memphis (traded to Houston)? We can only speculate.

You can make indefensible claims like "the GM's role is foresight'(and the President's role is to always make the right decision, and the pitcher is supposed to get everybody out, and so forth) but ultimately, they're only human. Some of them are smarter about b-ball than others, but most of them are smarter about b-ball than their critics in the peanut gallery.

Hey, it's a free country, and there's no law against unjustified criticism.

Posted by: Samson151 | February 14, 2010 8:21 PM | Report abuse

I am not denying that drafting is an exact science but in many cases, it's what separates a great GM and a GM that loses his job.
Once again, this is not particularly a knock on the man but he has failed overall with a very high payroll.

"Howard for Butler straight up is pretty much a wash; Haywood for Gooden is basically swapping an overrated role playing big man who only plays hard when feels like it at one end of the court for an overrated role playing big man who only plays hard when he feels like it at the other end (if anything, Gooden has more natural talent than Haywood); ... This is about as even a deal as I've seen. It makes Dallas better not because they got the better players, but because they got players who may (repeat, may) be a better fit. And, also, because the Wizards are awful regardless. "

Kal, honestly you could not be more wrong than you are right now. In your ever-continuing zest to have a differentiating opinion on this blog, you've strayed so far off base from reality it's almost embarrasing.

I don't know if I should argue or just laugh at you. But in my quest to lead the blind, I suppose it doesn't hurt to reinforce some facts.

Butler, while obviously dogging it, has still been a far more productive and healthy player the past two years than Howard. When you add in the offcourt issues, Butler is clearly the preferred player.

Howard at this stage of his career is nothing but an expiring. He'll be hard pressed to get an MLE deal next year.

Bottom line, this part deal wasn't Butler for Howard, it was Butler for an expiring. Dallas could have thrown Uwe Blab into the deal and if his expiring was large enough you bet EG would have taken it.

Secondly, your presumption that Gooden & Haywood are somehow equal is about the most absurb statement about the NBA I've read in recent years. Haywood is a legit 7-0 footer and top five defensive C in the league, is a quarterback on defense & nearly avgs a double/double. Gooden is a miserable defender, displays a low b-ball IQ, and is only a decent rebounder & pick & pop player. Gooden is a backup PF who was forced to play C b/c Dallas had no other options.

And Haywood has always brought it defensively. He's been the Wizards best defender for years. He was the one trying his damnest to guard two guys since 2004. Because with Jamison beside him, he never had any help in the paint.

I'm not a huge stat guy but I think a long look at 82games.com & Hollinger's stats would give you some insight on this. Look at Haywood's +/- numbers and his on/off defensive numbers. Not just this year but the last five. Basketballreference.com might also do you some good in terms of comparing the two, specifically the advanced numbers.

Dallas definitely got the better of the trade in terms of talent. Howard is not as good a player as Caron and has not been 100% the entire season. Haywood is a true center whereas Gooden is strictly a PF. Not to mention that Dampier has a bad knee and is over 35. A front line of Marion, Nowitzki, and Haywood sounds pretty good to me. Butler as 6th man or SG for Dallas makes them even deeper.

For the Wiz, the only positive was all of the salaries that were dumped for the rest of this season and next. Getting rid of DSS's bad contract was the key to this trade. Dallas wasn't about to give up its backup PG Barea or a 1st rounder to absorb almost $15M in extra contracts for 2010-2011. Cuban realizes the window is closing for Dallas with both Kidd and Nowitzki aging and on the downside of their careers. He figured that upgrading the talent at the other positions would put them in a better position to contend with the Lakers and San Antonio.

You can make indefensible claims like "the GM's role is foresight'(and the President's role is to always make the right decision, and the pitcher is supposed to get everybody out, and so forth) but ultimately, they're only human. Some of them are smarter about b-ball than others, but most of them are smarter about b-ball than their critics in the peanut gallery.

Hey, it's a free country, and there's no law against unjustified criticism.

Posted by: Samson151 | February 14, 2010 8:21 PM | Report abuse

Why would my claims be indefensible? A Manager at McDonalds or any other business is given goals that must be met, if he/she doesn't meet them, that means he/she didn't accomplish their job. Yes, the President's job is to make the right decision and if he doesn't, that usually means his legacy will be negatively impacted and/or he isn't reelected and/or his party suffers.
What you are doing is condoning failure by justifying the GM's failure.
Once again, you are put in a position to make the right decisions and if you don't, that means (to most sane people) you usually don't get to keep your job.

Larry,the NBA channel had a Trade forum discussing the current rumors earlier.D. Auldridge emphasized that the Wizards were clearing up space.You won't hear that on TNT because they are concerned with ratings and the public does not care if the Wizards cleaned up cap space. The public does not care that getting rid of Stevenson was a victory for us. Only we care. The NBA channel simply has the time to plug a more in depth analysis, especially on the nite of the All Star game. Auldridge does emphasize however, that the Jamison talks are alive.

While drafting may not be an exact science, blowing a draft for 5 straight years is a definite indicator of the GM's lack of foresight and scouting. You could get away with 1 or 2 bad drafts but when all your draftees for the past several years can't even find playtime on one of the worst teams in the league, that's the root of the organization's problems.

Larry,the NBA channel had a Trade forum discussing the current rumors earlier.D. Auldridge emphasized that the Wizards were clearing up space.You won't hear that on TNT because they are concerned with ratings and the public does not care if the Wizards cleaned up cap space. The public does not care that getting rid of Stevenson was a victory for us. Only we care. The NBA channel simply has the time to plug a more in depth analysis, especially on the nite of the All Star game. Auldridge does emphasize however, that the Jamison talks are alive.

Posted by: Raef | February 14, 2010 8:39 PM | Report abuse

That trade wasn't a victory for us, it was a victory for Irene's bank account.

Perhaps the Wizards-Mavs trade will loosen up the trade market. Contending teams have to be very worried now that the Wizards will trade valuable players to their conference rivals, just to shed salary.

That someone else makes a deal and your deal is off? Ever think of that. There was not going to be a "better" deal. We dumped players and salary, which means we got what we both wanted and needed and so did they. I guess we should have held out for Dirk?

McGee is still a question mark. May or may not be a good pick depending on his development. Freak talent athletically for a veteran laden team.

AB - the best second rounder in his draft for all his faults.

DM - only a few players in his round still in the NBA.

His "blown" picks in hindsight were Veeremenko and Pech. BFD!

Posted by: rphilli721 | February 14, 2010 8:59 PM

Ernie second guesses himself the players he has tried to acquire are players he failed to draft and now wants to correct his mistakes. Devin Harris ,Hickson, Aaron Brooks Batum W Chandler R Beaubois Fernandez.

"Why would my claims be indefensible? A Manager at McDonalds or any other business is given goals that must be met, if he/she doesn't meet them, that means he/she didn't accomplish their job. Yes, the President's job is to make the right decision and if he doesn't, that usually means his legacy will be negatively impacted and/or he isn't reelected and/or his party suffers. What you are doing is condoning failure by justifying the GM's failure. Once again, you are put in a position to make the right decisions and if you don't, that means (to most sane people) you usually don't get to keep your job."Posted by: Utilityman1"

You're confusing blame with accountability. Ernie will probably get fired, but not because he's incompetent; he'll get fired because the owner (new or current) believes the organization needs a fresh face. When he is finally fired, folks here will point out (with justification) the many times in the past when Ernie made the right decision. Others (like you) will point out that the team still lost, and ultimately, that's all they care about. Grunfeld will probably get offered another job in the NBA at some point, because folks who know better will realize that many of the 'mistakes' made during Ernie's tenure were really somebody else's, and Grunfeld just got stuck with the blame for it. Just like he stuck Ed Jordan with the blame when he fired him.

That's the way the world works. When guys like this get fired, they feel a sense of relief, because now, people like you are somebody else's problem.

"McGee is actually a better prospect than most observers thought.Posted by: Samson151"

Based on how he was rated by scouts at the time of the draft. He was turning heads as soon as camp started. He's a long way from a finished product, but as a developmental player, he has a big upside. Particularly if you're patient with him.

So what? He is not trying to correct anything. He is trying to get players that turned out to be decent if he can in a trade. None of those players are that great anyway. Just decent role players to get if you can and dump salary at the same time. Again, BFD. Obviously, he is trying to get players he didn't draft bc if he had we would already have them, duh!!!! Think that happens with every trade.

By the way, where are all the negative "fans" who were griping about the Devin Harris trade last year. We could have had him instead of AJ blah blah blah. Now that he is not having a one-off career year and his leadership and attitude are being questioned on the worst team in the league - silence!

You're confusing blame with accountability. Ernie will probably get fired, but not because he's incompetent; he'll get fired because the owner (new or current) believes the organization needs a fresh face. When he is finally fired, folks here will point out (with justification) the many times in the past when Ernie made the right decision. Others (like you) will point out that the team still lost, and ultimately, that's all they care about. Grunfeld will probably get offered another job in the NBA at some point, because folks who know better will realize that many of the 'mistakes' made during Ernie's tenure were really somebody else's, and Grunfeld just got stuck with the blame for it. Just like he stuck Ed Jordan with the blame when he fired him.

That's the way the world works. When guys like this get fired, they feel a sense of relief, because now, people like you are somebody else's problem.

Posted by: Samson151 | February 14, 2010 9:18 PM | Report abuse

Do you really believe that he will be fired "just because" a new face is needed. Las year's record and this year's fiasco will have nothing to do with it. This team wasn't supposed to be in rebuilding mode as it has the 8th highest payrol in the NBA. When you blow all that money and have absolutely nothing to show for it, it's alot more than needing a new face I'd say.

Based on how he was rated by scouts at the time of the draft. He was turning heads as soon as camp started. He's a long way from a finished product, but as a developmental player, he has a big upside. Particularly if you're patient with him.

The fact that you haven't seen him in games notwithstanding.

Posted by: Samson151 | February 14, 2010 9:21 PM | Report abuse

That may be true but name one player that this organization has developed the past couple of decades. Even if he has the potential to be developed into an all star, who in this organization will take that role? Tapscott?

Let's see how long it takes for the Wiz to assemble a team with 3 all-stars, a former 6th man of the year, a double double defensive minded center, and guys as good as say Randy Foye coming off the bench. LMAO, clowns!

Except this is the only time Cuban has bailed out a EG contract. The team this year was as talented as any in the East the fact that it fell apart was due to many factors talent level withstanding.

Posted by: rphilli721 | February 14, 2010 9:31 PM

That is what Ernie thought and that is why he should be fired. He took a chance and blew it now suffer the consequences. While Atlanta, Cleveland, Orlando, Chicago got better Ernie thought time stood still. What was good enough to get into the playoffs 3 years ago would still be good enough. I never thought it was a good deal to trade our pick for Foye & Miller and I am sure I am not alone in that thinking. We could have had those guys without giving up our pick. Ernie bought the groceries, Ernie picked the coach it all failed. He is to blame.

Let's see how long it takes for the Wiz to assemble a team with 3 all-stars, a former 6th man of the year, a double double defensive minded center, and guys as good as say Randy Foye coming off the bench. LMAO, clowns!

Posted by: rphilli721 | February 14, 2010 9:35 PM | Report abuse

And how many wins did the all stars win last year?? And how about this year?
Oh wait, the team made it to the playoffs in a very weak eastern conference with the 8th highest payroll in the league. Let's throw a parade!

That is what Ernie thought and that is why he should be fired. He took a chance and blew it now suffer the consequences. While Atlanta, Cleveland, Orlando, Chicago got better Ernie thought time stood still. What was good enough to get into the playoffs 3 years ago would still be good enough. I never thought it was a good deal to trade our pick for Foye & Miller and I am sure I am not alone in that thinking. We could have had those guys without giving up our pick. Ernie bought the groceries, Ernie picked the coach it all failed. He is to blame.

Posted by: anacostia85 | February 14, 2010 9:39 PM | Report abuse

He shouldn't be blamed. He tried his best and that's enough in business. As long as he keeps trying and working hard to build a team, he should never be fired.
All that should happen is for someone to finally buy the team so Grufailed can blame all his bad signings and draft picks on him.

"That may be true but name one player that this organization has developed the past couple of decades. Even if he has the potential to be developed into an all star, who in this organization will take that role? Tapscott?Posted by: Utilityman1"

Define 'developed'. Just by the numbers alone, and the All-Pro citations, you could argue that Arenas, Butler, and Jamison all improved after arriving in Washington. Certainly Haywood has improved since his rookie season. But what does it all mean? Did the Wiz develop them, or did they develop themselves? We're talking about pros here. They're supposed to be self-motivated. There's a developmental league for those that need it, right?

"He shouldn't be blamed. He tried his best and that's enough in business. As long as he keeps trying and working hard to build a team, he should never be fired.
All that should happen is for someone to finally buy the team so Grufailed can blame all his bad signings and draft picks on him.
Posted by: Utilityman1"

Y'know, making up funny names for people you don't like doesn't make you look smarter.

Define 'developed'. Just by the numbers alone, and the All-Pro citations, you could argue that Arenas, Butler, and Jamison all improved after arriving in Washington. Certainly Haywood has improved since his rookie season. But what does it all mean? Did the Wiz develop them, or did they develop themselves? We're talking about pros here. They're supposed to be self-motivated. There's a developmental league for those that need it, right?

Trading the 5th & filler for Jamison's $14 million dollar salary five years ago. It was a quick fix to make the team respectable. It accomplished that task but b/c it was a quick fix instead of a patient rebuild we had an incredibly flawed team with no depth. In other words that trade sunk us into mediocrity.

Trading the 5th & filler for two impending free agents (Miller & Foye. At least you could make a respectable argument for acquiring Jamison, but this was totally indefensible. You don't trade a top 5 pick for role players, especially role players in a contract year. We didn't need role players, we needed new frontline players and EG totally ignored that idea.

We could have had a nice young talent like Curry, Jennings or Flynn in the mix on an inexpensive rookie deal. Instead, were stuck having to make a FA decision on two guys who probably aren't ideal in a rebuilding situation. Miller is on the wrong side of 30 and Foye lacks a real position and probably isn't a starter on a winning team.

To me these two deals showed that EG didn't trust the draft or his own ability to pick players. It's one thing to take the highest rated/talented player on the board in the 2nd round (i.e. Redd, Blatche, Ramos, etc..). There's no risk in that. It's totally another to draft in the top 5 and not f*ck it up. EG didn't have the balls to take a risk like that. So he played it safe and traded for reliable vets.

"Do you really believe that he will be fired "just because" a new face is needed. Las year's record and this year's fiasco will have nothing to do with it. This team wasn't supposed to be in rebuilding mode as it has the 8th highest payrol in the NBA. When you blow all that money and have absolutely nothing to show for it, it's alot more than needing a new face I'd say.Posted by: Utilityman1"

There's always plenty of blame to go around when a team is losing. But yes, ultimately Ernie will be fired not because of the record (it'll be a factor, but not the deciding one), but because ownership wants a fresh start, and a new GM will be part of it.

Are they right? Will the new GM be substantially better than the old one? We'll all have to wait and see. That's the problem with throwing out the old -- the new is different, but not always better.

In a perfect world where everyone has 20-20 foresight, sure I'd dock him for points.

You have to see things though from the point of view of where the team was at at that point (e.g. the focus was finding talent at PF or C -- not in the back-court).

Paul Millsap's was probably a bigger miss in terms of the Wizards needs at that time. Still Millsaps and Rondo were the exceptions, not the rule. Counter-balanced against that you have EG finding a guy like Michael Redd in the 2nd round when he was with the Bucks. Even a guy like Blatche has outperformed his draft position significantly. Same story with Dominic McGuire.

In terms of EG's track record, he's a better than average GM in terms of finding talent late in a draft. He's a better than average deal-maker. There may be better GMs than him in terms of finding talent early.

All things considered though EG isn't as bad as some people are suggesting he is. He may not be a Popovich or a Jerry West, but he's still better than average.

Of course, if the franchise can find a better option, it has no choice but to go in that direction. I don't think it's enough though just to say "Fire Ernie!" or "Ernie Sucks"."

@JPRS,

Pretty close to what I would say. However, whatever "misses" you are counting are still just role players. He has not missed on a player that would have changed the fortunes of this franchise whatsoever. The core of this team that at one time had legit aspirations of making a deep run in the playoffs was undone by injury more than anything and then clashing egos as well at the end. Stale is the word being used, but it only got stale bc the injuries undid the promise and the loses started piling up.

Y'know, making up funny names for people you don't like doesn't make you look smarter.

Posted by: Samson151 | February 14, 2010 9:48 PM | Report abuse

I have nothing against the man but facts are facts. I can't believe some of you are arguing that Ernie is doing a great job. The proof is in the pudding, this team has vastly underachieved and is the laughinstock of the league under his watch.
And I won't even start the conversation about how he enabled Gil to behave as he chooses, thus indirectly being responsible for the gun mess!

Since Ernie cam here how many of his draft picks have worked out? I won't count free agents such as Arenas because they developed before they got here that is why they were signed to lucrative deals. Ernie came here in 2004 right? 6 years later and he can't put one draft pick on the floor who can contribute night in and night out that is called failure.

"We could have had a nice young talent like Curry, Jennings or Flynn in the mix on an inexpensive rookie deal."

Sure. But the decision to go for the vets was based on Ernie's gamble that the Wiz could win now. He wasn't building for the future. He was taking a chance on the present. It didn't work, it will probably cost him his job, but he rolled the dice.

Grunfeld made it plain that he felt Curry, Jennings, and Flynn, although 'nice young talents', weren't going to be game-changers. It's too early to tell if he was right.

"I have nothing against the man but facts are facts. I can't believe some of you are arguing that Ernie is doing a great job. The proof is in the pudding, this team has vastly underachieved and is the laughinstock of the league under his watch.
And I won't even start the conversation about how he enabled Gil to behave as he chooses, thus indirectly being responsible for the gun mess!Posted by: Utilityman1"

I haven't heard anyone argue that Ernie is doing a great job. That's called a 'straw man': distorting others' positions so your own point looks stronger than it is.

I have heard people argue that Grunfeld made some good decisions and overall has done a decent job in difficult circumstances.

Let's see how long it takes for the Wiz to assemble a team with 3 all-stars, a former 6th man of the year, a double double defensive minded center, and guys as good as say Randy Foye coming off the bench. LMAO, clowns!

Posted by: rphilli721

What was the record posted by the above star-filled, deep, accomplished roster??
To make your argument look even more ridiculous you should've made a reference to the team having a true champion in the form of Oberto on its bench. After all, Oberto took the Spurs to the promised land!

I haven't heard anyone argue that Ernie is doing a great job. That's called a 'straw man': distorting others' positions so your own point looks stronger than it is.

I have heard people argue that Grunfeld made some good decisions and overall has done a decent job in difficult circumstances.

Posted by: Samson151 | February 14, 2010 9:59 PM | Report abuse

Well yeah, he's made a few good decisions, even Wes Unseld and could argue that any tenured GM in the league made a good move or 2. But overall, looking at the team's status this year and last, he has failed. I don't know how else to put it.

Feeling ok dude. You arguing that we shouldn't have gotten AJ? The guy who is as classy as it gets and helped change the losing culture here? So, instead we could have had....wait for it...Devin Harris. Wow! Don't forget the other dead weight we unloaded in that deal as well.

And, this year, in a very WEAK draft we traded for two proven NBA starters to supplement our core players for what was thought to be a highly talented playoff caliber team. What was your point? Oh, having a Curry, Jennings etc to rebuild with now. Ah, if only we were in rebuilding mode 8 months ago. Do you guys ever put things in context or perspective or do you just like spouting nonsense to back up your opinions? By the way, the only potential franchise player I see from this past draft is Tyreke Evans and he was gone. Potentially, Griffin as well, but we don't know yet and he was gone too. Jennings will be good, but not great and others like Curry are just nice role players. Neither of those players were rated good enough to be drafted 5th and rightfully so.

Feeling ok dude. You arguing that we shouldn't have gotten AJ? The guy who is as classy as it gets and helped change the losing culture here? So, instead we could have had....wait for it...Devin Harris. Wow! Don't forget the other dead weight we unloaded in that deal as well.

And, this year, in a very WEAK draft we traded for two proven NBA starters to supplement our core players for what was thought to be a highly talented playoff caliber team. What was your point? Oh, having a Curry, Jennings etc to rebuild with now. Ah, if only we were in rebuilding mode 8 months ago. Do you guys ever put things in context or perspective or do you just like spouting nonsense to back up your opinions? By the way, the only potential franchise player I see from this past draft is Tyreke Evans and he was gone. Potentially, Griffin as well, but we don't know yet and he was gone too. Jennings will be good, but not great and others like Curry are just nice role players. Neither of those players were rated good enough to be drafted 5th and rightfully so.

Posted by: rphilli721 | February 14, 2010 10:06 PM | Report abuse

Devin Harris was the Wiz's pick but was picked for Dallas. The Wiz could have had Iguodala, Al Jefferson, Josh Smith, Kevin Martin among other.
In other words, he is right, you just don't trade a top 5 pick unless you are getting a bonafide star in return or you are worried about blowing it.

"What was the record posted by the above star-filled, deep, accomplished roster??
To make your argument look even more ridiculous you should've made a reference to the team having a true champion in the form of Oberto on its bench. After all, Oberto took the Spurs to the promised land!

Not your best work."

Man, I might have to buy Glen Beck's book "Arguing with Idiots". LMAO. 4 straight playoff appearances for a perennially losing franchise is what this core accomplished. We are not the Celtics or Lakers or a team with a winning tradition that players flock to. You going to argue that point too? So, EG had this franchise headed in the right direction for the first time since the 70's. Again, a lot of what undid this team's potential was injury. If GA does not blow out his knee, we are talking about 6 straight playoff appearances. And, then, other players start to want to come here even at a discount. It unraveled. So what? Start over. I would rather EG rebuild than virtually anybody else bc he has already done it here once, in Milwaukee once, and in NY. Milwaukee thought they could do better than EG and I don't believe they've made the playoffs since he left. NY has been pretty much dreadful since he left as well. Careful what you wish for clowns!

Man, I might have to buy Glen Beck's book "Arguing with Idiots". LMAO. 4 straight playoff appearances for a perennially losing franchise is what this core accomplished. We are not the Celtics or Lakers or a team with a winning tradition that players flock to. You going to argue that point too? So, EG had this franchise headed in the right direction for the first time since the 70's. Again, a lot of what undid this team's potential was injury. If GA does not blow out his knee, we are talking about 6 straight playoff appearances. And, then, other players start to want to come here even at a discount. It unraveled. So what? Start over. I would rather EG rebuild than virtually anybody else bc he has already done it here once, in Milwaukee once, and in NY. Milwaukee thought they could do better than EG and I don't believe they've made the playoffs since he left. NY has been pretty much dreadful since he left as well. Careful what you wish for clowns!

Posted by: rphilli721 | February 14, 2010 10:16 PM | Report abuse

4 mediocre playoff appearances in a historically weak eastern conference with the 8th highest payroll in the league. We were better than terrible, we should have thrown a parade.
And how about him indirectly being the cause of the gun mess embarassing this franchise for several years for enabling Arenas the fool to behave and act how he chooses?

"Devin Harris was the Wiz's pick but was picked for Dallas. The Wiz could have had Iguodala, Al Jefferson, Josh Smith, Kevin Martin among other.
In other words, he is right, you just don't trade a top 5 pick unless you are getting a bonafide star in return or you are worried about blowing it."

Again, so what. I believe AJ has equaled any of those players in productivity and we got rid of Stackhouse and Laettner in the deal as well. And, none of those players are bona fide stars in their own right nor have they won a damn thing in the league. They are simply pretty good NBA players as is Jamison.

The only thing you have to pray for as a Wizards fan is that the Wiz front office don't screw all this newly found cap space up by signing a chump player to a max deal. don't believe this franchise can't do it to you again.

Since 2004 only 2 teams have traded top 5 picks for veteran players. Boston traded the number 5 pick for Ray Allen the year they also acquired Kevin Garnett. The Wizards have done it twice. Boston's deal ended in a title. Ours did not.

Ah..you're classic dude. When you are getting killed in debating points better change the subject. First, genuis, we did not have the high payroll until this year. Second, making the playoffs is making the playoffs. Dismiss it any way you like. One season we were a couple of LeBron James traveling calls from making the ECF. Forget that one? Didn't enjoy that season? Get a life dude and learn how to debate.

Oh, yeah, EG is responsible for GA's problems with guns and the law. You're funny if not downright comical. By the way, you think EG or Washington is the first franchise in the NBA that did not cater to it's star or "enable" them in some capacity? If they didn't, they would be the only one. But, alas, most don't end up doing things that GA did.

Man, I might have to buy Glen Beck's book "Arguing with Idiots". LMAO. 4 straight playoff appearances for a perennially losing franchise is what this core accomplished. We are not the Celtics or Lakers or a team with a winning tradition that players flock to. You going to argue that point too? So, EG had this franchise headed in the right direction for the first time since the 70's. Again, a lot of what undid this team's potential was injury. If GA does not blow out his knee, we are talking about 6 straight playoff appearances. And, then, other players start to want to come here even at a discount. It unraveled. So what? Start over. I would rather EG rebuild than virtually anybody else bc he has already done it here once, in Milwaukee once, and in NY. Milwaukee thought they could do better than EG and I don't believe they've made the playoffs since he left. NY has been pretty much dreadful since he left as well. Careful what you wish for clowns!

Posted by: rphilli721 | February 14, 2010 10:16 P

Looks like you already bought his book "How to Answer Without Answering".
It's okay. I'll answer for you. The roster that Grunfeld put together this year and paid handsomely for accomplished nothing. Nada. Zilch. You go ahead and look away while Ernie continues to give away high draft picks for role players (let's not forget Jamison was a sixth man with the Mavs), draft horribly and overpay tweeners (at least one of whom was coming off two knee surgeries).
Despite what you believe, Grunfeld's no sacred cow and, similar to Eddie Jordan, his time has come and gone with this franchise.

The main difference besides Devin Harris being 27 and Jamison being 34 is that Devin will make a reasonable 26 million over the next 3 years while Jamison is making 28 million over 2 years. Devin will still have value when Jamison is out of the league.

Since forever only a handful of teams has won the NBA title period so the Wiz are not even close to being alone. Chicago, Lakers, Houston, Detroit, Boston, San Antonio, Miami...that's about it. So who they drafted, who they trade, whatever they did has not mattered for about 24 franchises or 75% of the league. The most common denominator with the winning teams being a long lineage of winning, therefore, they get top notch players to come to their team more easily without overpaying and/or they were lucky enough to draft a once in a generation type player. Neither of which, the Wiz have had the luxury of having. The Wiz get the number 1 pick for once and we get the terrible Kwame f'ing Brown draft. Let's hope this next lottery is much kinder bc I think there are a couple of players with franchise capability. The team needs a little luck more than it needs a new GM.

GA does not blow out his knee, we are talking about 6 straight playoff appearances. And, then, other players start to want to come here even at a discount.

Posted by: rphilli721

LMAO!
What an idiotic statement!
Six is the magic number before guys start leaving money on the table to come play for the Wiz?? Because they sure as hell didn't flock here after four straight playoff appearances.
Speaking of Gil's knee, if Ernie hadn't backed up the Brinks truck into Gil's driveway and given him the keys AFTER TWO KNEE SURGERIES AND THE KNEE STILL HADN'T HEALED, then maybe your argument that he's at least competent would be stronger. Sadly, it is not.

something I rarely see here: how about the clowns who can never say anything good about the Wizards over the last 10 years compare Grunfeld's acheivements and the team's acheivements this decade to those of other hard luck teams (our peers), or the Bullets from the entire decades of the 80's and 90's. There is no doubt whatsoever that the wizards reaching the 2nd round once and having a couple somewhat competitive series vs the Cavs and an injury-hindered series vs the Cavs in the last several years was an unconditional success for this particular team.

And plain and simple (and I'm sorry to be insulting), you have to be an idiot to deny the fact that an assembled team with multiple all stars and a very strong bench was a job well done for a GM. This team looked so good on paper that the only thing you can reasonably criticize is that Grunfeld did not foresee how the team would under-acheive. Only about 10% to 20% of the other teams entered this season with a better roster. However, there is no denying this team was an awful failure.

I still say that those who criticize Grunfeld relentlessly are living in some dreamworld of fantasy leagues where you just pick a team of all superstars with no money to pay. Be realistic - few teams have been able to assemble such a group with such strong resumes. Team chemistry that had definitely been there before evaporated. Ernie did a very good job for DC, all things considered. I'm supporting him as he starts over now.

I am not looking away from anything. EG's made mistakes, but he is not the franchises problem. This season unraveled for many reasons talent level not being one of them. But, make up things as you wish. He did not give up a high draft pick for role players. Randy Foye was a 7th pick himself and very good player along with MM. Together they are better than anybody would have been close to being this season. Actually, individually they would have been. Don't distort facts.
He may be held accountable for the last two seasons by the next owner or maybe not. I repeat, be careful what you wish for bc replacing a proven GM like EG is not so easy. Hey, if we get a young up and comer GM, and he is successful - kudos. But, don't give EG all of the blame and none of the credit. Final question: When is the last time this franchise went to the playoffs 4 straight seasons? Who was the GM? Thanks!

Who said six appearances was a magic number for players to flock to the team d o uche bag? Be intellectually dishonest and stupid if you wish. It's about building a winning tradition and, yeah, that would have gone a long way towards that goal.

Ah..you're classic dude. When you are getting killed in debating points better change the subject. First, genuis, we did not have the high payroll until this year. Second, making the playoffs is making the playoffs. Dismiss it any way you like. One season we were a couple of LeBron James traveling calls from making the ECF. Forget that one? Didn't enjoy that season? Get a life dude and learn how to debate.

Oh, yeah, EG is responsible for GA's problems with guns and the law. You're funny if not downright comical. By the way, you think EG or Washington is the first franchise in the NBA that did not cater to it's star or "enable" them in some capacity? If they didn't, they would be the only one. But, alas, most don't end up doing things that GA did.

Posted by: rphilli721 | February 14, 2010 10:30 PM | Report abuse

So is simply making the playoffs your main indicator of success? It sure does look like your expectations are pretty low which goes right in line with the organization you blindly follow.
And you are saying other GM's in the league allow their stars to behave any way they choose. They allow them to crap in teammates shoes, disrespect coaches, not follow directions, bring guns into locker rooms.... And you are calling me comical?? Please go back and read the nonsense you just spewed.

The Rockets are missing 2 of their franchise players plus they play in the West which is much tougher yet they are STILL in the playoff hunt. Their GM built a nice foundation and did not trade away all of their draft picks. They even did it by not overpaying for role players.

No, they are living in a world where you can look at a draft two years later and cherry pick the players you should have gotten without context or perspective with the roster you already have in place. And, as you say, the salary situation the team is in.

No, they are living in a world where you can look at a draft two years later and cherry pick the players you should have gotten without context or perspective with the roster you already have in place. And, as you say, the salary situation the team is in.

Posted by: rphilli721 | February 14, 2010 11:06 PM | Report abuse

Your boy Ernie didn't even give us a chance to cherrypick. He's been trading high picks because he was worried about picking the wrong players, so he took shortcuts that have set this organization back for years.

Oh, you mean like we did two years ago while making the playoffs. If you think Houston is going anywhere you are delusional and the East vs West comparisons are pretty much stale at this point as the conferences have evened out considerably. The East actually has a winning record vs the West thus far this season - look it up. And, keep searching for meaningless points, it's entertaining.

Oh, you mean like we did two years ago while making the playoffs. If you think Houston is going anywhere you are delusional and the East vs West comparisons are pretty much stale at this point as the conferences have evened out considerably. The East actually has a winning record vs the West thus far this season - look it up. And, keep searching for meaningless points, it's entertaining.

Posted by: rphilli721 | February 14, 2010 11:11 PM | Report abuse

You are defintely an interesting fella!!! So both conferences are even now? Once again, please proofread what you write before hitting the submit button.
For example, Memphis, currently 11th in the West would have been 6th in the east and I am not even considering the fact that they are playing tougher western opponents alot more so had they been in the east, they probably would have been a top 4 team!

My last response to your nonsense bc if you believe he traded picks bc he was afraid he would select the wrong player you're dumber than I already think you are. He has had two high picks both the 5th. The first was his first draft in which he unloaded both bad players and bad contracts for AJ in another somewhat weak draft. The second was last year's obviously in which he wanted veteran role players for a team that was supposed to be very good. It was also considered a terribly weak draft. The team failed miserable so we start over. If you doubt his talent evaluation, he stated that he was only interested in Evans or Griffin. Seems like he just didn't have quite a high enough pick to not make that trade. That was not a mistake whatsoever.

Houston is one game out what makes you think they won't go? Unlike the Wiz the Rockets are without their 2 best players and still making a playoff run. The Wiz with the all star roster Ernie put together have only been missing Gilbert.

Check the conference vs conference record! Or you just like comparing apples and oranges. Perhaps, genius, the West has more parity from top to bottom and the East has the more dominant teams at the top. Head to head - apples to apples - the East is winning!

The Wiz were missing GA and CB and AJ both missed about a quarter of the season if I remember correctly. But, again, so what? It's a dumb point to make or debate. And, great, the Rockets make the playoffs. Then what? Lose. They or it has nothing to do with the Wizards.

Check the conference vs conference record! Or you just like comparing apples and oranges. Perhaps, genius, the West has more parity from top to bottom and the East has the more dominant teams at the top. Head to head - apples to apples - the East is winning!

Posted by: rphilli721 | February 14, 2010 11:22 PM | Report abuse

You are a joke by believing that the East has a better record than the West, it's not even close.

Wow, I'm overwhelmed by that talent. What is that a couple of all-star appearances by that group 6 seasons later and not a player close to HOF worthy among them. Not to mention winning anything of consequence. Or make that they are all "stars" on some of the worst teams in the league with the exception of Josh Smith. Like I said, weak draft.

The Wiz were missing GA and CB and AJ both missed about a quarter of the season if I remember correctly. But, again, so what? It's a dumb point to make or debate. And, great, the Rockets make the playoffs. Then what? Lose. They or it has nothing to do with the Wizards.

Posted by: rphilli721 | February 14, 2010 11:28 PM | Report abuse

Isn't it exactly what happened to the Wiz during the playoffs appearances that you are profusely celebrating???

Again, what is your point? The Wiz limped into the playoffs one year as Houston is this year. They lost and Houston will lose. Great. What is your point? Or you think you have a point that doesn't exist? I know the answer. It's fun toying with your lack of intelligence though.

And, as of a month ago, the East vs West record was 103-83. If that has changed drastically, I may be wrong, but I doubt it.

Forgot we unloaded two terrible contracts and malcontents as well? Yeah, I do that deal again in a heartbeat. Jamison was a 6th man bc Dallas wanted scoring off the bench and he was a good team player. He also made the all-star team twice as a starter since then and the 6th man of the year that year. More accomplished than the other guys you like from that draft. Can you guys make a point once that makes any sense? You're spinning your wheels.

On a championship team, AJ is probably no better than a 2b player or 3rd best at worst, which, again, makes him as good or better than those players. But, he is better in the context of career stats, professionalism, and awards like all-star appearances.

Forgot we unloaded two terrible contracts and malcontents as well? Yeah, I do that deal again in a heartbeat. Jamison was a 6th man bc Dallas wanted scoring off the bench and he was a good team player. He also made the all-star team twice as a starter since then and the 6th man of the year that year. More accomplished than the other guys you like from that draft. Can you guys make a point once that makes any sense? You're spinning your wheels.

On a championship team, AJ is probably no better than a 2b player or 3rd best at worst, which, again, makes him as good or better than those players. But, he is better in the context of career stats, professionalism, and awards like all-star appearances.
Posted by: rphilli721 | February 14, 2010 11:54 PM

Thanks you just made my point Jamison is "as good as those players"(your words) I named plus they are way younger. They will hit the allstar games just as he has they are still in their 20's and his career is coming to an end.

"Butler, while obviously dogging it, has still been a far more productive and healthy player the past two years than Howard. When you add in the offcourt issues, Butler is clearly the preferred player."

All of which I addressed when I said that Howard has been unable to stay healthy the last couple of years. But that wasn't the issue I cited. I cited talent and said specifically that, when both are healthy, they're essentially the same caliber player. Nothing you said disputes my observation.

"Haywood is a legit 7-0 footer and top five defensive C in the league"

Bull. There's more to defense than rebounding and shotblocking. In fact, most of what constitutes real defense isn't measured in stats. Haywood is a good not great defender and a terrible offensive player. Gooden is a good not great offensive player and a bad defender. Again, if you want to argue, argue with what I actually said: One guy is good at only one end of the floor, the other guy is good at only the other end of the floor. And neither guy is good consistently.

"And Haywood has always brought it defensively.

Nonsesne. Haywood hasn't always brought anything consistently.

"He's been the Wizards best defender for years."

So for years, he's been the best defender on what has consistently been one of the worst defensive teams in the NBA. SFW?

"I'm not a huge stat guy but I think a long look at 82games.com & Hollinger's stats would give you some insight on this. "

Sorry, but I don't worship at the alter of the plus/minus or the PER. I prefer to actually watch players play. Novel idea I know, but you should try it some time.

Whether or not this trade works won't be based just on this season, unless it helps the Mavs win a title (which isn't going to happen). Butler has one more year on his deal. If Howard gets healthy and returns to his all-star form next season, and Haywood walks in the offseason, what do the Mavs have to show? Like it said, this is a gamble, but a gamble that the Mavs needed to make.

Again, what is your point? The Wiz limped into the playoffs one year as Houston is this year. They lost and Houston will lose. Great. What is your point? Or you think you have a point that doesn't exist? I know the answer. It's fun toying with your lack of intelligence though.

And, as of a month ago, the East vs West record was 103-83. If that has changed drastically, I may be wrong, but I doubt it.

Posted by: rphilli721 | February 14, 2010 11:45 PM | Report abuse

My point is that you have been celebrating 1st round exits with passion and are defending the indefensible Ernie because he spent all that money to get the team to fruitless playoff appearances in a weak eastern conference. But when it came to Houston, you dismissed their playoff appearance as a mere 1st round exit, which is hypocritical and comical at the same time (which doesn't surprise me coming from you).
And once again since you not only seem to lack common sense but also slow, the West record is better than the East's and it isn't even close.
Sometimes, I wish they would ban some people from posting on here. Logic is definitely not required.

By the way, if you are implying Jarvis Hayes was a EG pick, he was not.

Posted by: rphilli721 | February 14, 2010 11:59 PM

WASHINGTON - The Washington Wizards on Wednesday signed first-round draft pick Jarvis Hayes, who will have an opportunity to fill the small forward spot manned by Michael Jordan.

Terms were not disclosed, but under terms of the collective bargaining agreement, Hayes can earn up to $4.7 million over three years. The deal includes a club option for a fourth year worth $2.045 million.

Jordan retired after the 2002-03 season, which he began as a reserve but moved into the starting lineup at the 3-spot.

The 6-7, 220-pound Hayes, who was selected 10th overall, is a true small forward who left the University of Georgia after his junior season. He averaged 18.3 points last season and shot 43 percent from the arc.

"Jarvis has an opportunity to play a key role in help building our team for many years to come," Wizards president of basketball operations Ernie Grunfeld said. "He is an outstanding athlete with a very good outside shot."

He has had two high picks both the 5th. The first was his first draft in which he unloaded both bad players and bad contracts for AJ in another somewhat weak draft. The second was last year's obviously in which he wanted veteran role players for a team that was supposed to be very good. It was also considered a terribly weak draft. The team failed miserable so we start over. If you doubt his talent evaluation, he stated that he was only interested in Evans or Griffin. Seems like he just didn't have quite a high enough pick to not make that trade. That was not a mistake whatsoever.

1. So every draft EG decides to make a trade is a weak draft? Howard, Okafor, Deng, Iguodala, Josh Smith, Granger, Biedrins, Kevin Martin and a ton of solid 2nd level players. Sound like a weak draft to you?

2. I don't care what draft it is, or how weak people claim it is. You don't use a 5th pick to dump contracts and add role players. It's insane. No other GM does that. A top 5th pick is an incredibly valuable asset and EG twice has punted on getting excellent talent.

3. Those bad contracts you mentioned we traded for Jamison was Laettner (an expiring!) and Stackhouse (two years left). We traded those for one HUGE bad contract. Jamison's deal was $14.0 mil.

4. You can argue Jamison's impact compared to the likes of Iggy & Deng but you can't compare the salary. Instead of having a guy like Iggy for $3 mil for the next 4 years, you've got Jamison making almost five times more. Imagine what you could do with the extra $11 mil once Stack came off the books?

5. Defense, Defense, Defense. Jamison, Miller, Foye, Songaila, Pecherov, Young, McGee, James... what do these players all have in common? No clue or ability to defend. You love AJ apparently. Gives a great interview. A true leader, blah, blah, blah. That doesn't change the fact we've had to play gimmick defenses for years trying to hide his sorry as on the defensive side of the ball. You know your defense is horrific when Miami runs a play to get Adonis Haslem the ball for the last shot of the game b/c he's being guarded by our "Great Leader of Men".

Who said six appearances was a magic number for players to flock to the team d o uche bag? Be intellectually dishonest and stupid if you wish. It's about building a winning tradition and, yeah, that would have gone a long way towards that goal.

Posted by: rphilli721

My point, c r etin, is you are insane if you think a couple more years of first round playoff losses would have enticed players to take a discount to join the Wiz. Dream on!
Your point it moot anyway since Ernie has been spending money the last couple years like he has a U.S. Mint printing press in his basement.

Jarvis Hayes - a MJ pick.
Devin Harris - traded for AJ and unloaded two bad contracts at the same time - great trade.
Blatche - best player of the second round of his draft regardless of underachieving tendencies.
Pecherov - late first round pick bust.
Veremeenko - late first round pick bust.
Young - see above. Best player in his part of the draft by far and still a potential starter if he ever got his head together.
McGuire - Overachiever. Only two players drafted after him still in the NBA period.
McGee - Incomplete. Still a freak athlete with a ton of potential. Touted as the steal of the draft a couple of months into last season.
Bill Walker - what???
2009 pick traded for Miller 10 points per game and Foye 10 points per game - so what?

He has had two high picks both the 5th. The first was his first draft in which he unloaded both bad players and bad contracts for AJ in another somewhat weak draft. The second was last year's obviously in which he wanted veteran role players for a team that was supposed to be very good. It was also considered a terribly weak draft. The team failed miserable so we start over. If you doubt his talent evaluation, he stated that he was only interested in Evans or Griffin. Seems like he just didn't have quite a high enough pick to not make that trade. That was not a mistake whatsoever.

1. So every draft EG decides to make a trade is a weak draft? Howard, Okafor, Deng, Iguodala, Josh Smith, Granger, Biedrins, Kevin Martin and a ton of solid 2nd level players. Sound like a weak draft to you?

2. I don't care what draft it is, or how weak people claim it is. You don't use a 5th pick to dump contracts and add role players. It's insane. No other GM does that. A top 5th pick is an incredibly valuable asset and EG twice has punted on getting excellent talent.

3. Those bad contracts you mentioned we traded for Jamison was Laettner (an expiring!) and Stackhouse (two years left). We traded those for one HUGE bad contract. Jamison's deal was $14.0 mil.

4. You can argue Jamison's impact compared to the likes of Iggy & Deng but you can't compare the salary. Instead of having a guy like Iggy for $3 mil for the next 4 years, you've got Jamison making almost five times more. Imagine what you could do with the extra $11 mil once Stack came off the books?

5. Defense, Defense, Defense. Jamison, Miller, Foye, Songaila, Pecherov, Young, McGee, James... what do these players all have in common? No clue or ability to defend. You love AJ apparently. Gives a great interview. A true leader, blah, blah, blah. That doesn't change the fact we've had to play gimmick defenses for years trying to hide his sorry as on the defensive side of the ball. You know your defense is horrific when Miami runs a play to get Adonis Haslem the ball for the last shot of the game b/c he's being guarded by our "Great Leader of Men".

Posted by: Dat2U | February 15, 2010 12:08 AM | Report abuse

Great points but it wasn't Ernie's fault. He did all because 199 years old Abe forced him to make all the aforementioned moves.
Now rumor has it that Irene made him move his best 2 tradeable assets without getting any draft picks or young prospects in return.

Nick young is better than Aaron Brooks, Rudy Fernandez and Wilson Chandler?? I don't think so.
Mcguire better than Marc Gasol & Ramon Sessions??? I don't think so.
Devin Harris - traded for AJ and unloaded two bad contracts at the same time - great trade. I don't think so it was a over reaction.

1) I never celebrated anything. I stated facts that he had this franchise headed in the right direction with four straight playoff appearances. I used no other descriptive or "celebratory" terms. Reading comprehension is not your friend.

2) And, again, the head to head record was 103-83 a month ago. What is the record now genius? Post it or shut up.

3) If you get equal or better value in a player, plus you ditch two malcontents with bad contracts that is a deal you make 10 out of 10 times. Is that hard to comprehend?

4) MJ drafted Jarvis Hayes before EG came on board. Thanks for the article though. EG's first draft as GM was 2004. Jarvis Hayes was drafted in 2003. I guess EG commenting on a player on his roster means he drafted him? Wow.

5) AJ becoming 6th man had nothing to do with the fact that Walker's over inflated unprofessional ego would not possibly allow him to be a 6th man did it? The only point you proved there is that AJ is a professional and AW was a fool.

"Nick young is better than Aaron Brooks, Rudy Fernandez and Wilson Chandler?? I don't think so.
Mcguire better than Marc Gasol & Ramon Sessions??? I don't think so.
Devin Harris - traded for AJ and unloaded two bad contracts at the same time - great trade. I don't think so it was a over reaction."

NY was the best player drafted around the same spot in the draft. Those other players drafted later have been "better" in some cases, but certainly not more talented.

Never said McGuire was better than Marc Gasol or Sessions - well Sessions is a marginal player as well. The point was labeling him an "underachiever" when only two players drafted after him are even in the league and only a few more drafted in his round are still in the league is wrong.

Not debating the AJ trade again with you as you would be one of only a very few with your opinion. And nobody with any credibility would agree.

You made my main point and that was that the players Grunfeld could have drafted were as good as Jamison. They are younger and could have played a big part in our future I guess we will wait until next year and trade another top pick to get rid of Jamison & Arenas.

Kalo_rama I said I wasn't a huge stat guy. I definitely trust my eyes over any stat, but to totally ignore the advanced metrics is ignorance on your part.

But for you, ignorance may be bliss.

My opinion of Haywood's defense has nothing to do with blocked shots or defensive rebounds. It's with his ability to challenge shots with his effort & length. When he's in the game, teams take more jumpers and attack the rim less. He's by no means a great rebounder but you got to love the way he consistently puts a body on someone a blocks them out, allowing for AJ's inflated rebounding totals the past five years.

I really think you underestimate his length. Up until this year he had the 2nd longest standing reach in the league. Only 2nd to Yao. Sure, he looks slow and awkward but defensively, but he's incredibly effective. There were some numbers out prior to this year that showed we had a below average defense with Haywood in the game and a historically bad defense when he was out the game!

You want complain about our D? Haywood was the ABSOLUTE LEAST OF OUR WORRIES!!! Look at Jamison, look at Butler before this year. Look at Gil, look at everyone else on the roster. Wood was not the problem.

I bet you polled every GM in the league, 30 out 30 would take Wood over Gooden every single time. Even the idiot GM who traded him, Grunfeld.

I could care less of how the deal will work for Dallas, I just know its horrible for the Wizards. We dumped $4.1 mil next year in DeShawn. Who hoo. I guess I should be thrilled about dumping a guy who I never wanted to see signed in the first place and using our two best trade assets to do so.

You agreed with me. Your own words were that the other players are as good as AJ. If Laettners' deal was going to expire and Stackhouse's deal was going to expire in 2 years what was the rush? Keep your draft pick. In the end what did Jamison bring us that those players could not? We did not get a title. As far as those players you don't think are better than Nick Young they are a regular part of the rotation. Nick Young has been in and out of the doghouse since he has been here. How could Dom be an overachiever when Sessions & Gasol have ascended to starting roles(though Sessions is no longer starting) and Dom has splinters in his butt?

The Knicks wanted to get rid of Marbury because he was a malcontent but they did not sell a draft pick to do it. They simply paid him and banished him to the bench until he agreed to a buyout. If Stack was really acting that bad we could have done the same thing.

Well, reason is not your friend. It would make sense that if the field of players is considered weak and you're not going to miss on a sure thing, you would be more open to dealing for known quantities. Thus, two seasons where that was the case EG went with known quantities and in the AJ case unloaded contracts as well. Great deal! I think that was the summer we picked up GA with the help of that cap space as well.

You say that "you can argue Jamison's impact compared to the likes of Iggy & Deng but you can't compare the salary". Really? C'mon. What kind of logic do you use? AJ makes more than those guys bc he IS a better player. You guys get cornered and start coming up with if's and's and but's that may make sense to you somehow, but not to another person with a brain. Keep spinning your wheels it's amusing.

Boy when the Wiz come calling I bet the GMs have to get all the laughing out before they take the call. It's like negotiating with children. Okay let's just be clear we want your 5th pick in the 1st round and you are demanding that we send you Mike Miller who is in the last year of his contract and Randy Foye. Well you are not being fair and you are really asking for too much but okay. ROFL!!!

I guess that cap space that was used to acquire GA that summer was a mistake? C'mon dude. I'm tired of your garbled nonsense.

McGuire is an "overachiever" bc he is still in the damn league, moron. He has defeated big time odds already.

Just bc NY is in out out the doghouse is no indication of whether he is or is not a more talented player. For now, some of those players are "better" like I ceded but also not drafted in the same part of the draft. Better and more talented are two different concepts altogether.

I guess the cap space that was used to acquire GA that summer was a mistake? C'mon dude. I'm tired of your garbled nonsense.

McGuire is an "overachiever" bc he is still in the damn league, moron. He has defeated big time odds already.

Just bc NY is in out out the doghouse is no indication of whether he is or is not a more talented player

Posted by: rphilli721 | February 15, 2010 1:06 AM

You are a moron if you believe that crap you are spouting. Over achievers don't get splinters in their butts they force their way onto the floor. Players with talent also force their way onto the floor. Aaron Brooks is starting Ernie wants him because he knows he blew it by not drafting him. Giving that cap room to Gilbert has been a huge mistake. It has forced the total destruction of our team.

the good ole days of 43-39 are over!? what??? lol... this team is irrelevant. In fact beyond that to near non-existent. Young can go as well. dude can't concentrate for more than 5 minutes in a row. maybe we can get someone as talented as Quintin Ross for him too? how special would that be? Might as well do a mercy trade for Jamison as well. Maybe we can re-hash that old deal with the Cavs for Wally? Doesn't play anymore? isn't alive? no matter, that deal is solid to Ernie. I'd like to hear him harp on Wally's positive attributes actually. More entertaining than Wizards basketball at least.