She had never heard that. Wow. The LC doesn't teach any thing about heaven, paradise does it? or does it? She didn't know.

But she couldn't bring herself to say the word 'heaven'. When I asked her where believers go when their bodies die, she replied "with the Lord" AND WHERE is the LORD at? I would ask. Her reply was a question "Well. Where is He?" She could not bring herself to say HEAVEN!!

Weird...don't know if it was her or the LC..or both. But Lee was way too focused on 'the Recovery'....among other things.

Haha, I've had the same conversations with friends and relatives in the LC. I need to give them grace though because I was brainwashed to think the same. I believe Witness Lee teaches that paradise is still in sheol and you don't go to heaven when you die. I think there's even the belief that your spirit man may stay asleep and you won't see anything until the first resurrection. I think this teaching isn't limited to the local church because some evangelicals hold to the same belief (such as the producers of chick tracts).

I remember the word "heaven" was like a dirty word. Instead we were always supposed to say the "New Jerusalem". But where is the New Jerusalem? But in heaven! Of course it will come down to earth during Jesus' millennial reign but where does it come from in Revelation?

Revelation 21:2
And I saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.

Jesus said I go to prepare a place for you. I believe that's what he's been preparing for us all along.

The disappointing thing is that Watchman Nee taught that the NJ was a spiritual city and not a physical one. I contend that it is both *physical* and *spiritual* in the same way that man was created with both physical and spiritual components.

When I was in the LRC I always thought the New Jerusalem would be pretty dull without knowing it. I mean if the church meetings were a foretaste of the NJ, then it wasn't much to look forward to!

But I believe Apostle Paul was taken up to heaven and what he saw absolutely blew his mind but he wasn't allowed to describe it in detail:

But, as it is written, “What no eye has seen, nor ear heard, nor the heart of man imagined, what God has prepared for those who love him”— 1 Cor 2:9

Now that God is taking many people there finally and revealing the glory that awaits us, it's probably a sign that he's coming soon.

On an unrelated note, I wanted to share something I just wrote on my blog. The key to finishing the Christian race is intimacy with God. A lot of the things I write on my blog are also revelations I've made about unscriptural teachings that are held as dogma in the LC for those interested.

That said as much as everyone including me likes to poke fun at the LRC, we have to remember to love and forgive! Jesus taught us to love our neighbors especially when our neighbors are the ones who've hurt us (Matthew 5,6). I realize many here are hurt with broken hearts, but sometimes the best way to heal is to just love and forgive. I remember reading John Ingall and John So's letters about what really happened and getting so upset at Witness Lee and Philip Lee. Whenever that bitterness surfaced, I asked Jesus to help me forgive and eventually my feelings towards the LRC softened and now I'm just really worried for their salvation. If you have trouble forgiving then ask God to give you the grace. Father God loves to give good gifts to his children and those are the kind of prayers he loves to answer. Bitterness needs to be dealt with because it can be like a cancer that destroys us.

There are still some things from the LRC I really treasure and I think we should never throw out. I think Witness Lee was right when he said eating Jesus was the way. All the teachings about having a relationship and intimacy with Jesus are also great. Those are things we need to hold on to! It's unfortunate that he may not have practiced what he preached, but Jesus also said this in Matthew 23:3:

"so practice and observe whatever they tell you—but not what they do. For they preach, but do not practice."

12-16-2013 11:41 PM

countmeworthy

Re: More signs & wonders (part 1)

Quote:

Originally Posted by bearbear

Also to keep with the subject. One night I asked God for a dream about his coming before I went to bed.

That night, I really did get a dream and remembered it, which is rare because I usually forget all my dreams.

I was in a house with a bunch of computers. Everyone all around me were playing my favorite video games I played growing up. The people who were playing included some of my friends and people around the age of those in my youth group. (I'm a youth counselor at my church). I enjoyed watching them but I never yielded to the temptation to play.

Then one of the elders of my church approached me and ask "What makes you accountable?"

And then I responded "It's the glory of heaven that awaits!"

It had nothing to do with the second coming, but I believe God was telling me to persist in faithfulness and spread the message that our momentary suffering is working out to an eternal weight of glory (2 Corinthians 4:17).

I think you answered perfectly! You were not attached to the computer games!!

In one of little John's messages (the 10 yr old) he preaches on detachment. "Detach! Detach! Detach!!" Really cute.

That voice sounded so familiar...then I realized it was Jesse Duplantis. LOL.. I had his video until I lent it out.. and you know how that goes! I haven't seen it in years! The video does not have the techno noise though. LOL..the viewers all complained about the techno crap. In the original video, he is sharing from the pulpit.

Here is another video you will like. This man has visited heaven more than 80 times. it is an hr & 38 minutes though but very, very interesting!! No techno noise. :-) There are no pictures but the man's description of the outer court, the Holy Place & the Holy of Holies is awesome.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G5QBZU870Ms

Quote:

(Note: I believe Jesus lifted paradise from Sheol to heaven after he died - 2 Cor 2:14. The bible teaches that to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord (2 Cor 5:8). And where is Jesus right now? But at the right hand of the Father in heaven.)

Why of course !! That reminds me....

A couple of years ago, I was talking to an LC friend who had no clue whatsoever that Paradise was now in heaven.

I explained to her that before Jesus death, the old testament saints went to Paradise which is in the middle of the earth. Hades was the compartment where the wicked reside. I pointed her to the account of the rich man & Lazures. I explained when the Lord ascended, He took paradise with Him to heaven. That is why believers go to heaven when they die because that is where Paradise is and the wicked go to hell/hades located in the middle of the earth.

She had never heard that. Wow. The LC doesn't teach any thing about heaven, paradise does it? or does it? She didn't know.

But she couldn't bring herself to say the word 'heaven'. When I asked her where believers go when their bodies die, she replied "with the Lord" AND WHERE is the LORD at? I would ask. Her reply was a question "Well. Where is He?" She could not bring herself to say HEAVEN!!

Weird...don't know if it was her or the LC..or both. But Lee was way too focused on 'the Recovery'....among other things.

Blessings...
More later!
Carol

12-16-2013 07:38 PM

bearbear

Re: More signs & wonders (part 1)

Also to keep with the subject. One night I asked God for a dream about his coming before I went to bed.

That night, I really did get a dream and remembered it, which is rare because I usually forget all my dreams.

I was in a house with a bunch of computers. Everyone all around me were playing my favorite video games I played growing up. The people who were playing included some of my friends and people around the age of those in my youth group. (I'm a youth counselor at my church). I enjoyed watching them but I never yielded to the temptation to play.

Then one of the elders of my church approached me and ask "What makes you accountable?"

And then I responded "It's the glory of heaven that awaits!"

It had nothing to do with the second coming, but I believe God was telling me to persist in faithfulness and spread the message that our momentary suffering is working out to an eternal weight of glory (2 Corinthians 4:17).

But, as it is written, “What no eye has seen, nor ear heard, nor the heart of man imagined, what God has prepared for those who love him”— (1 Corinthians 2:9)

I love this vision because as awesome as the kingdom of heaven is, no one is staying put and enjoying the wonderful creation in heaven. Instead they're all running towards God because there's something just deeply awesome about his presence and his love that draws us to him. In the end it's all about God in eternity. And we don't have to wait until then because we have what is at the center of heaven right now living inside of us.

(Note: I believe Jesus lifted paradise from Sheol to heaven after he died - 2 Cor 2:14. The bible teaches that to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord (2 Cor 5:8). And where is Jesus right now? But at the right hand of the Father in heaven.)

12-16-2013 05:41 PM

bearbear

Re: More signs & wonders (part 1)

Hi Carol,

I was touched by the dream you posted and was wondering if you had the youtube link.

There have been a lot of crazy things happening in my life since I've posted here a while back. In the past year I've drawn pretty close to the elders and a senior pastor at my church. We're all interested in end times and bible prophecy and yes I agree there are many biblical indicators in scripture that Jesus is coming soon!

Anyways some time after I left the local church and found this new one, God led me to a place to fully repent of my sins (it's funny I never learned about real repentance (metanoia in Greek, or a change of mind, not just confessing sins) in the 20 some years I grew up in LSM churches). Soon after, I read about the baptism of the Holy Spirit and I knew that's what I needed. After praying to receive it I felt this peace come over me unlike anything I ever experienced. I believe it's "the peace that surpasses all understanding" in Phil 4:7 that Paul describes.

After that experience, whenever I read the bible I just get so much revelation. I used to be so dependent on commentaries but now I don't feel much need to read books anymore but I just feel an intense desire to go directly to the word of God. Jesus commanded we live on *every* word that proceeds out of the mouth of God (Matthew 4:4) and not any Christian teacher's commentary. Since then I've experienced God working through my life wonderfully in many ways, in not just words but also in actions (don't just be hearers of the word deceiving yourselves James 1:22). And let me just say that Father God, who Jesus says is our only Teacher (Matthew 23:8) is the best Teacher you could ever have! Don't settle for anything less. Everyone who teaches should really consider themselves to be a guide to lead us to the One Teacher, just as the Holy Spirit whom Jesus sent will guide us to all truth (John 16:13)

Recently my senior pastor realized I had the gift of teaching and asked me to give a sermon in front of 150. I was nervous about speaking in front of so many, but I felt a great burden come on when I did and the words just came out naturally by God's grace. I preached about the need to give our hearts whole heartedly to the Lord and how God delivered me from video game addiction. Towards the end many in the audience were convicted and repented. I never would have suspected the Lord could use me in this way because back in the local church I was pretty much a nobody. Well I still am, but I've just been able to develop the gifting God gave me that was stagnant for all these years. Praise God though, all the glory really belongs to him, there's no need to boast because everything we do is just what God had already prepared beforehand and given to us! And I'm sharing this because I want it to be an encouragement to others that there is hope after you leave the local church if you seek God with all your heart! All you need is the Holy Spirit! Invite him into your life and you will never be the same.

I've also started a website for preaching the gospel. My main concern with those meeting in the local churches as well as many other Christians from an extreme dispensational background is that their doctrines of grace and salvation may damn them because they didn't realize their need to repent and be delivered from addiction. I did a pretty intense bible study and I *really* don't think the bible teaches eternal security after a simple sinner's prayer or "calling on the Lord" and many Christians and LSMers who think they're saved may end up in outer darkness for *eternity* not just a thousand years because they only believed in Jesus with their mouth but not fully in their heart.

I have an online friend who has a 10 yr old son who had a dramatic transformation on his 10th bday, November 19, 2013 & is not the same little boy he was before the Spirit of God enveloped him.

She & her husband have been posting you tubes as the Lord leads them & their son to do. They do not show their faces. And while the parents usually say a few words, it is John full of the Spirit preaching "Repent. Detach. Make Jesus #1. Be a Worthy Bride. The Time is NOW. The videos are 5-10 minutes long.

Here is her testimony about 10 yr old John:

Quote:

It's Jesus himself using a little boys body cause the boy we know-- is gone almost totally-- except he likes pancakes still. lol. Definitely had nothing to do with us-- no parent of the year award-- we were just as hopeless as the next family with video games as idols and electronics suffocating our kids... evil world. I asked God many times to please take this out of him and all his friends but I gave up that prayer because it looked impossible. Our house is kid central and all the kids come eat pizza and play games here while I pray in the background and serve food. I figured at least I can have the kids at my house to monitor them and make sure the volume is off on the xbox so they wont hear the gross words. God is so faithful to deliver us all from this perverse generation.

But the most amazing Word to this experience is that when he was born, she & her husband were surrounded by family & friends at the hospital.

Suddenly someone prophesied over John and said he would walk like Enoch at a very young age. He was a typical kid...not really interested in the things of God.

But on November 19, 2013 BAM!! He was overpowered, overcome by the Presence of God. The LORD told him (not his parents) to stop playing video games. He obeyed right away. And from that day on, he is having strong visitations from the LORD...about 5 every hour.

The Presence of the LORD is very strong in their home now.

Someone commented that just as the Beloved of the Lord - an old wise man, John the Apostle was used by God to write of the things that are to come in the book of Revelation, God chose a young 10yr old boy also named John to sound the Trumpet that Jesus IS coming soon...NOW.

Out of the mouths of babes!!! To God the Father, the SON our Savior and His Holy Spirit be all, ALL Glory and Praise!!

Shalom everybody.

Carol G

12-14-2013 11:18 AM

countmeworthy

More signs & wonders (part 1)

To all who read & were encouraged by my vision _ AWAY IN A MANGER_, the LORD God Adonai bless you. To those who read it and shrugged it off, the LORD GOD Adonai bless you too.

I have reserved in sharing a dream I had last weekend but if it encourages ONE person, Halleluiah to the Precious Lamb of God Who IS, Who Was and is definitely coming again!...and soon!

I will open up with Acts 2:17-19 (from the ERV -Easy to Read Version) as a precursor to my dream. God's WORD & He does not lie tells us:

Quote:

In the last days
I will pour out my Spirit on all people.
Your sons and daughters will prophesy.
Your young men will see visions.
Your old men will have special dreams.
18 In those days I will pour out my Spirit
on my servants, men and women,
and they will prophesy.
19 I will work wonders in the sky above.
I will cause miraculous signs on the earth below.

On Sunday night (12/8/2013) I had what I "perceived" as an unusual and disturbing dream.

I dreamed I was being hoisted down on a rope into a deep dark hole. I did not know why or how deep it was but I was not happy about it.

I could see the rope clearly and it had several knots. So I began pulling myself up. The last knot was very vivid as it was close to the handle of what ever was hoisting me down.

So I shrugged off the dream as simply a weird, meaningless dream because I did not feel euphoric about it. Most dreams I have from the Lord are very uplifting. But not this one. However, I never felt as if I was going to die or if I was being 'punished' or persecuted.

I could not make any sense out of it and did not bother asking the Holy Spirit to reveal the meaning.

The next day, Monday morning, I tuned into a Christian show that was filmed in Nazareth Israel. It was on the Anointing of the Holy Spirit. The teacher was going through a 'home' reenacting life during the time of Jesus.

Then I froze in my tracks I saw a deep well just like the one I was being hoisted down into. It had a water jug attached to the rope and there was the knot right by the jug ! It was hoisted down to be filled with water and as it is hoisted back up the water is poured into a vessel of clay.

So my dream DID HAVE MEANING!! I had nothing to fear!!

I suppose I was the jug going down into the well and then hoisted up and the Water in me (Jesus Christ) was being poured into a vessel of clay.

THEN, the pastor begins teaching on Isaiah 61 which explains the function of the Anointing of the Holy Spirit!!!! (The Anointing of the Holy Spirit is the Power & Authority that falls on us from being in the Presence of the Lord. That is why the first few chapters of Acts are so very exciting because when the Presence of God was so strong in the upper room, HE empowered them to speak in different languages, to heal the sick & preach the gospel with Authority convicting many and adding to the church daily.)

I was once again floored because the night that I had the dream, I had been reading Isaiah 61 !!!!

Here is Isaiah 61:1-3 again from the ESV

Quote:

The Spirit of the Lord God is on me. The Lord has chosen me to tell good news to the poor and to comfort those who are sad. He sent me to tell the captives and prisoners that they have been set free.

He sent me to announce that the time has come for the Lord to show his kindness, when our God will also punish evil people. He has sent me to comfort those who are sad, those in Zion who mourn. I will take away the ashes on their head, and I will give them a crown (of beauty).

I will take away their sadness, and I will give them the oil of happiness. I will take away their sorrow, and I will give them celebration clothes. He sent me to name them ‘Good Trees’ and ‘The Lord’s Wonderful Plant.’

I shared my dream with a friend in Christ & here is her reply to me regarding the dream:

That is an awesome dream! And I loved the way He gave you the meaning to it. You are the container holding the Holy Spirit and it is being poured out, like all of us who are the bride of Christ. I think you coming up out of the well has significance too. It reminds me of the rapture and the Holy Spirit ascending, leaving this earth.

Please know...with all gloom on the forum due to the pain the leaders of the LSM there are lots of brethren who have joyful hearts inspite of their personal trials & tribulations.

The LORD is giving many, many people visions, dreams & interpretations confirmed by the WORD of God. (not from some psychic ability).

So be encouraged! Our redemption draws nigh!! Hooray - Hooray!!!
Happy dance!
There are people truly looking for that city that has foundations Whose Builder & Maker is GOD!!

Part 2....coming up! Thanks for reading.

Come Lord Jesus!! And Lord Jesus Christ, do BLESS & heal the broken hearted saints QUICKLY who were & are still in the trenches of the LSM. To You be the Glory & Praise. Amen.