Kevin O'Connell is in his 4th year currently with the Jets.Brandon Tate is in his 3rd year currently with the Bengals.David Thomas is in his 6th year currently with the Saints.Rich Ohrnberger is in his 3rd year with the Patriots.Ron Brace is in his 3rd year with the Patriots.Jermaine Cunningham is in his 2nd year with the Patriots.Darius Butler is in his 3rd year currently with the Panthers.Terrence Wheatley is in his 4th year currently with the Bills.

They may in the end be considered busts but until then I would call them incomplete.

Think about it for a minute. The average NFL career is about 5-6 years. The good ones can play at a high level for 10+ years, but they are not that common, and after the rookie contract you pay full freight for them against the cap. Over 11 years you ostensibly get 22 guys in the 1st and 2nd round. Those are your starters. You get 22 picks in the 3rd and 4th round. Those are the backups/STs. There is a mix of course. The 5th 6th and 7th round need to come up with some players too because you know you aren't going to hit on all the top picks. Those 4th and 5th round guys are quite important too. Add in FAs, undrafted guys, other team's castoffs that work out and trading to the mix. May the best team builder win.Posted by BabeParilli

The NFL career is 3.3 year not 5-6. Why don't you make a list of undrafted guys that became starters for the Patriots?

Agreed wih many RE: What Round you may or may not call a specific player selection, An overall "Bust" when drafted in said round. For me, It's 1st-3rd=No doubt...And I also include players selected halfway or thereabouts through the 1st half of Round #4 (I might stretch it sometimes to throughout all of rd 4, OR shorten the quality of player depth stipulation to include only perhaps the first 1/3rd of rd 4, all depending on the specific draft class as a whole).

Either way, that's not my point... My point is the following: I believe there is absolutely ZERO NFL Coach who's better at accumulating quality draft selections; Meaning: Quality overall numbers of picks to use and high round picks as well. This overall belief isn't gonna break any records for being in any way controversial...It appears that if you asked Bill Belichick to accumulate a mere 2nd round draft selection for the '12 draft, and to do-so within the next 24 hours, Belichick would come up with a 2nd rd selection this afternoon...then another in his sleep tonight...then finally, 1 more early Monday morn.

HERE's the second half of the point which is gonna tick some people off: I believe you'd be hard-pressed to find ANY NFL Coach, who has absolutely wasted the sheer number of 2nd-4th rd selections on just- well, Cr#p Players. I do. I wish this wasn't the case...but it kinda is.

And maaan, Trading Down DOES work. And it SHOULD work. And it should work GOOD. Say ya got yourself a selection in the very early 20's of the 1st rd, and you end up trading it for idk- Make it easy=One 2nd rder This year, One 2nd rder NEXT year, and One 4th rder, THIS year. That's doable.And say that THIS year, you then take that 4th rder and are able to flip it to some scr#b team, and turn THAT 4th rder into an early 3rd rder for the following year (the same year you'll get that added 2nd rder too). Now you've managed two early (hopefully both are, but you can be certain that 1 at least is "early") 2nd rders <1 this year, and 1 next year />. And you've also nabbed a decent 3rd rd selection the following year, from the 2nd team you flipped your 4th rder on THIS year. Really, That ain't bad. Two decent 2nd rders and one 3rd rder for just 1 1st rder somewhere in the 20's selection range.

...Problem is, Bill Belichick will inevitably WAY more likely than not, NOT draft a player who's of 2nd rd talent...OR many times, even 3rd rd talent. Ya can betch're #ss he won't draft some 1st rd talent who had somehow slipped down a Round (that's happened like what, Once-Ryan Mallet? ...and no, you can't call a guy a 1st rd talent, IF he came out the previous year <Ras I />, OR If he didn't have cancer <Marcus Cannon>, It just doesn't work like that. ANY-way, Bill Belichick would inevitably select 2 players projected to go in the 4th rd, with his two 2nd rders. And with his 3rd rder, He'd target someone of 6th rd quality.

And I ain't sayin' Belichick should sell out, and target some pvnk with bad off-field issues... I'm not sayin' that belichick should be limited to ONLY players in that PRECISE targeted bracket area... I AM saying that Belichick NEEDS to be MUCH smarter with how he uses his picks, and when. 1 rd "Reaches" I can live with... But when nearly half of your entire draft is made of multi-rd reaches, And these guys double, and even triple the times when you've selected "Value" guys (or "Even" guys, in their correctly targeted round). The result will be, WAY more often than not=Less Quality. 2nd-4th rd guys are less quality of skill than are elite 1st rd guys, to begin with...But now, you're just KILLING yourself by thinking you'll get a decent player (ANY time) when you're targeting someone of 4th rd skill with a 2nd rd selection, and when you're targeting someone of 6th rd skill with a 3rd rd selection.

Like I've said previously, For every 1 Sebastian Vollmer or maybe Logan Mankins (although 1 to 1 1/2 rds early), or even Tom Brady (although he was a projected 6th-7th rder, and he was taken in the 6th)- For every miracle you acquire with a multi-rd "Reach", I'll just give you 2-3 wasted selections that you've made with the same selection spot elsewhere.

Every year in the first and 2nd rounds when the Pats pick, there are always guys we need that fall on our laps in the draft. We keep thinking Belichick will pull the trigger and get these guys, and he seems to reach, and get guys that he could get later in the draft. I remember a few years ago Dez Bryant kept falling on our lap. Clay Matthews is another example, Connor Barwin, Brooks Reed. BB reached on Ras I Dowling, he could have traded back maybe into the 3rd round to get him. Jermain Cunningham could have been drafted much later, same with Ron Brace, Terrence Wheatley. Gronkowski ended up being a homerun, same with Wilfork. But there arent many homeruns drafted by BB. His later draft picks pan out almost as good as his 1st and 2nd rounders. I wouldn't call Mayo a homerun. He is a good player, but he was the 10th pick in the draft. With all the draft picks BB has taken on defense, his draft record is abysmal.

Every year in the first and 2nd rounds when the Pats pick, there are always guys we need that fall on our laps in the draft. We keep thinking Belichick will pull the trigger and get these guys, and he seems to reach, and get guys that he could get later in the draft. I remember a few years ago Dez Bryant kept falling on our lap. Clay Matthews is another example, Connor Barwin, Brooks Reed. BB reached on Ras I Dowling, he could have traded back maybe into the 3rd round to get him. Jermain Cunningham could have been drafted much later, same with Ron Brace, Terrence Wheatley. Gronkowski ended up being a homerun, same with Wilfork. But there arent many homeruns drafted by BB. His later draft picks pan out almost as good as his 1st and 2nd rounders. I wouldn't call Mayo a homerun. He is a good player, but he was the 10th pick in the draft. With all the draft picks BB has taken on defense, his draft record is abysmal.Posted by dfitzp

Dez Bryant? He's Dallas' #1 WR and he has less yards than the Pats 3rd. He's played in all the games and Has less yards than Welker, Gronk, and Branch. If Hernandez hadn't missed 2 games he'd be ahead of him too. Even with Miles Austin missing half the games this year he couldn't produce.

From: Babe Parilli and several other pseudo fans (don't worry, we know who we are)

To: Real Patriots Fans Everywhere

Subject: Our Insecurity

Date: December 4, 2011

_________________________________________________________

Please join us in making today Whiner Day for all Patriot fans, including real fans and people like us who prefer to point out all the flaws, faults and failures of the Patriot organization, regardless of how inconsequential. The truth is we'd rather wring our hands and dwell on the negative stuff that can't be fixed because we're either: a) bored with the success of our favorite NFL team; or b) not really Pats fans, but really Jet fans who are so insecure about our own team's prospects that we'd prefer to spend our time denigrating our biggest rival than thinking for one more second about how much our quarterback really stinks.

Thank you very much and please remember to focus today on the important things, like how many yards the defense has allowed rather than that they're, you know, 8-3.

I think David Thomas might not deserve to be up there. He was on the team when all that was expected from TE was to block...and that's it. He did a decent job protecting brady and blocking for the RBs. He wasn't asked to catch the rock like Gronk and Hernandez.

For Evil: MEMORANDUM From : Babe Parilli and several other pseudo fans (don't worry, we know who we are) To : Real Patriots Fans Everywhere Subject : Our Insecurity Date : December 4, 2011 _________________________________________________________ Please join us in making today Whiner Day for all Patriot fans, including real fans and people like us who prefer to point out all the flaws, faults and failures of the Patriot organization, regardless of how inconsequential. The truth is we'd rather wring our hands and dwell on the negative stuff that can't be fixed because we're either: a) bored with the success of our favorite NFL team; or b) not really Pats fans, but really Jet fans who are so insecure about our own team's prospects that we'd prefer to spend our time denigrating our biggest rival than thinking for one more second about how much our quarterback really stinks. Thank you very much and please remember to focus today on the important things, like how many yards the defense has allowed rather than that they're, you know, 8-3.Posted by Muzwell

Let me add that at the whiner day dinner you will be allowed to pick your 'all whiner team'. Feel free to populate it with high profile, big stats stars. You are free to do this because unlike the Patriots your payroll can be a half a billion a year.

good coaching helps develop and utilize young talent tough to get the coaching continuity you need when you've lost an entire coaching staff full of top talent. Weis, Crennel, McDaniels, Mangini, Rob Ryan, Brian Daboll... good job finding all of thesePosted by Artist-Frmrly-Knwn-As-NickC1188

I'm thinking lots of talented folks would like to work for this organization. Hell, we had Capers and let him go to the Packers. Were Weis or Crennel even approached about coming back? What we do have is a bevy of inexperienced yes men.

I think what needs to change about our approach to drafting is it can no longer be a - I'm smarter than you event. What I mean by this is, we need to stop approaching it like - if I trade this pick for these picks it would be smart, I'd get the better of that deal (yeah I won't get the guy I want, but I'll make some others work). This value approach needs to take a back seat. The bargain hunting for the best deal, instead of the best player needs to take a year off.

I can't imagine what it must be like for a scout to scout a player and come to a conclusion only to be trumped because there's a deal on the table that has good value. Instead of going out of our way to look smarter than everyone else, we need to select players that will help this team right now.

I think what needs to change about our approach to drafting is it can no longer be a - I'm smarter than you event. What I mean by this is, we need to stop approaching it like - if I trade this pick for these picks it would be smart, I'd get the better of that deal (yeah I won't get the guy I want, but I'll make some others work). This value approach needs to take a back seat. The bargain hunting for the best deal, instead of the best player needs to take a year off. I can't imagine what it must be like for a scout to scout a player and come to a conclusion only to be trumped because there's a deal on the table that has good value. Instead of going out of our way to look smarter than everyone else, we need to select players that will help this team right now.Posted by mthurl

This same 'logic' could be applied to any of the other 31 teams in the NFL, you could pick an all-bust team for any of them. Because they have been consistent winners, the Pats have typically drafted near the end of each round for the entire decade as well, which is a definite disadvantage. Thats 30+ more players (every round, every year) they do not get a shot at due to their SUCCESS. Here is the link to every teams draft picks for the entire history of the league. Do the real analysis and tell us who (based on their drafting position) has been so much better. http://www.nfl.com/draft/history/fulldraft?type=teamPosted by BostonSportsFan111

I didn't say anybody else was better or not. But certainly some teams have been more successful in the last 6 years.

This is partially interesting (clearly there have been issues at WR), but let's get real with about half of these names. And you can't name a reverse all-pro team like you do here and then say well it's not your fault that you had to stretch credibility in order to come up with this many names. David Thomas is not a bust. He's been a productive NFL player, just wasn't good enough to make it in Foxboro. They don't win the 2001 SB without JR Redmond, so call him a bust if you must, but not in my book.Posted by Muzwell

There are always arguments as to who is a bust. Like I said, Meriweather is considered a bust by some.