The next problem has to do with the equipment itself. You can’t expect local organizers to replace their entire inventory at this stage of the game’s development. With pong already in crisis (as seems to be generally agreed upon), then forcing these small companies to purchase additional supplies so that they are in compliance with BPong may actually force some of them to toss in the towel. This is especially true if the WPT gets wind of this discontent, and they keep their current rules. If that happens, then organizers have a real choice: 1. Change along with BPong, meaning a huge additional investment in inventory, or 2. Adhere to WPT rules, and continue with what they already have. This would ultimately be bad for the game, as there just aren’t enough players as it is to support two completely separate formats (as it is, it is easy to transition between WSOBP and AC rules, but if the pongbar is added, that transition is no long easy). Looked at in this light, to implement the pongbar is actually a risk to everything that we have built so far.

Its not a big deal if pongbar was produced. Its a seemless addon to the current 4 fold table that would have a low price point. and would eventually become part of the normal design of new tables. Its a few pieces of aluminum.

You mention WPT, ive mentioned it to Sam Pong and he supports the change. If Bpong changes the tables, everyone else will follow. Who uses anything else than the 4 fol 8ft table there days?

Its not a big deal if pongbar was produced. Its a seemless addon to the current 4 fold table that would have a low price point. and would eventually become part of the normal design of new tables. Its a few pieces of aluminum.

It’s a price that organizers should not have to pay. They’ve already purchased regulation tables with the understanding that these are the tables used in the WSOBP. I may be wrong on this, but I believe it is unethical to expect them to now purchase additional equipment just to "give it a try" with a concept which will more than likely prove to be ineffective.

And I haven’t even begun to discuss the idea that the pongbar would make tables 10 feet long, for which most bars just won’t have the space. I know that in the four bars we’ve held tournaments in ABQ, not a single one of them would be able to support beer pong if the tables were 10 feet long. I know that can’t be an isolated incident.

Not that this means anything but, Ive been playin pong here on long island for over 6 years now before the world series even existed. I was playing when competitive beer pong was first introduced at the bars and a taped line was used, and i still play today with all of the standard bpong rules, tables, cups, etc. Back in the day the number of teams we got at tournies using a taped line , and tournies with an 8 ft table and no line, were pretty similar. I remember the nutty irishman (taped line) was pulling at least 35-45 teams a week and lily flanigans (8 ft table) was doing the same if not more. Well its obvious that everyone has gotten alot better at leaning, and maybe this is part of the reason why Lilys now brings in 10 teams a week if theyre lucky, yet i’ve been to a couple local places that still use the taped line with over 30 teams, most of which are just the average people at the bar who enjoy drinking and playing. Im sure if something like this pongbar were introduced, the dominant players would still be the top players, however, i think games would be a lil bit closer then they are now. Guys wouldnt be shooting such ridiculous percentages, and those "house party" players might be a little more inclined to come out and play. I dont think the "pong pros" would ever be discouraged from playing cause lets be honest, if u can put a ball in a cup, u can put a ball in a cup….dont matter if the table is 8 ft, 9 ft, with a line, no line, doesnt matter…percentages might change a little, but the best of the best will still be the best of the best. So i think its kinda on those elite players to step up and call for a change, cause do u wanna shoot 80% and win 100 bucks at a 15 team tourney every monday or friday night??? or do u wanna shoot 60% and win 300 bucks at a 45 team tourney?? and if u guys think this is all pointless then think about this…..Ive seen Pop play at all of these different spots on Long Island…and most of the tournaments that the competitive players play at , they have to set restrictions on when he can or cant play, or just flat out ban him completely because a bunch of the competitive players know theyre wasting their time. The kid is unbelievable and its discouraging as fuck to shoot great all night, then lose to someone who just doesnt miss lol…..now I’ve also seen him play multiple times at a bar that uses the old school 6 foot table with a taped line on the floor….I’ve probably seen him play there 5 or 6 times, and he’s won all but maybe one or two…but the point is this, he doesnt shoot 90% there…he misses plenty of shots, and those average players think they have a shot against him. Not only do they think they have a shot against him, Ive heard multiple people say that they know they can beat him lol….The kid is still clearly the best player there, and some of these kids are completely out of their mind, but they all keep coming back. They continue to get 30 teams a week, with maybe 4 or 5 of them consisting of competitive players that play 2 or 3 times a week. Just some food for thought for those guys that are so against extending the table length.

@kessler: I realize my recommendations of putting on more "novelty" tournaments is merely a band-aid, but the point I was making was that pong should encourage more of the "fun" atmosphere of the game in order to attract new players (and keep them coming back). Also, those recommendations are not even close to the drastic change that implementation of new equipment suggests. Changing the format of a tournament one or two days out of the month doesn’t even compare to changing the entire structure of the game as it stands.

Also, before I get branded here (and it may be too late for this), I am not against the pongbar because I am some great player who doesn’t want to lose my edge. I talk a big game in the Southwest but those who have played against me know that I am nothing special. It’s likely that any of the posters here would beat me easily in a 1v1. The reason I am against the pongbar is that I love this game and it’s potential and I truly believe that this change would ultimately be bad for the sport’s future.

Its not a big deal if pongbar was produced. Its a seemless addon to the current 4 fold table that would have a low price point. and would eventually become part of the normal design of new tables. Its a few pieces of aluminum.

It’s a price that organizers should not have to pay. They’ve already purchased regulation tables with the understanding that these are the tables used in the WSOBP. I may be wrong on this, but I believe it is unethical to expect them to now purchase additional equipment just to "give it a try" with a concept which will more than likely prove to be ineffective.

And I haven’t even begun to discuss the idea that the pongbar would make tables 10 feet long, for which most bars just won’t have the space. I know that in the four bars we’ve held tournaments in ABQ, not a single one of them would be able to support beer pong if the tables were 10 feet long. I know that can’t be an isolated incident.

first off, no one is saying just straight up use the pong bar, at least im not. im saying if the pong bar can help pong, GIVE IT A TRY. I mean everyone’s argument against the pong bar is pretty much "we dont think it will make a difference so dont bother"….thats ridiculous, if theres something that we can do to improve pong, we should try it.

secondly, if the pong bar does what we want the pong bar to do, which is bring out and keep new players, then the small cost for this add on will be well worth it.

@kessler: I realize my recommendations of putting on more "novelty" tournaments is merely a band-aid, but the point I was making was that pong should encourage more of the "fun" atmosphere of the game in order to attract new players (and keep them coming back). Also, those recommendations are not even close to the drastic change that implementation of new equipment suggests. Changing the format of a tournament one or two days out of the month doesn’t even compare to changing the entire structure of the game as it stands.

Also, before I get branded here (and it may be too late for this), I am not against the pongbar because I am some great player who doesn’t want to lose my edge. I talk a big game in the Southwest but those who have played against me know that I am nothing special. It’s likely that any of the posters here would beat me easily in a 1v1. The reason I am against the pongbar is that I love this game and it’s potential and I truly believe that this change would ultimately be bad for the sport’s future.

so the pong bar shouldnt be used because it wouldnt make much of difference, its just an extra foot, top players are still gonna be top players and ppl will still bitch……..but then we have clawless who says the pong bar will change the game DRASTICALLY.

no clawless the pong bar will not change the game drastically. the bar will come to ur thigh so you literally will be shooting exactly the same, just 1ft farther away. which many players have already said wont make much of a difference.

how did you learn pong, was it elbow or was it lean? i ask this because essentially you want all the players who have learned pong with elbow to conform to our way but the idea of meeting them in the middle with a pong bar, is out of the question.

dont know why you said @kessler, i dont see any post from him on this thread. i said something about ur suggestions being a band-aid…..names Brian M from NJ :smok:

Lol, my bad. For some reason I thought I saw "sauce" next to your post.

I learned the game with elbow. Then converted to a line on the floor after seeing how difficult that was to enforce. Then as soon as my group of players learned about the WSOBP, we converted to those rules. We would have played whatever rules the Series used, because we wanted to play as well as we could at the competitive level. Sure, we had people who would come over and complain, but guess what? After we told them these were the rules used in the Series (and explained what the Series was), they wised up and attempted to convert.

Listen, if the pongbar actually was good for the game and brought in new players without turning away any old ones, I would support it. I just don’t think that’s the case. Until there is solid evidence showing that it does what it’s supporters claim it will do, I think it’s too big a risk and too big an investment by organizers to put into effect. What happens after we implement it, most (but not all) organizers grudgingly purchase the addons for their tables, and a year later the WSOBP has shown no major growth? I honestly think the best solution to this problem is better marketing. The pong population at large, which currently doesn’t even know about the WSOBP, needs to be shown what it is and how much fun it is.

Listen, if the pongbar actually was good for the game and brought in new players without turning away any old ones, I would support it. I just don’t think that’s the case. Until there is solid evidence showing that it does what it’s supporters claim it will do, I think it’s too big a risk and too big an investment by organizers to put into effect.

i hear you, and like ive said before, im not in favor of straight up implementing the pong bar. im in favbor of certain organizers/promoters giving it a try and providing us with evidence of whether or not it works. If its a clear cut failure, then R.I.P. pong bar…..if its a clear sucess then lets move forward and make it happen……if its somewhere in the middle then B/D/S along with other organizers/promoters would then have to look at the results and decide if they feel its worth it to move forward, just nix the whole thing, or keep testing it.

It depends what the actual function of the pong bar is – is it to level the playing field (for a few months/weeks) or is it to give the perception of an elbow rule??

I’d prefer a move to 9ft tables over pong bar… I personally would miss being able to bounce the ball on the table as a pre shot routine and i know others feel the same…

To attract new long term players it is important and i think it is time to make the next step in the evolution of the bpong brand and beer pong – be it pong bar or new tables, I think these could be phased in together, start with pong bar for trial, then move to bigger tables further down the line if the pong bar is met without huge resistance…

This isnt going to change the dominance of players, just attract new ones… hopefully…

9′ tables is an even worse idea than the pongbar. For one, that’s only adding an extra half foot to either end of the table, which wouldn’t address the "problem" of people wanting an elbow rule at all. Secondly, I know I wouldn’t be the only organizer to refuse to completely replace my inventory, and have to throw out all of my old tables with zero return. A lot of organizers keep an inventory of up to 20 tables. That’s $2400 down the drain if they have to replace them with entirely new tables. I don’t know how well the others are doing, but I simply don’t have that kind of expendable cash lying around.

Yea i wouldnt recommend 9 ft tables. Like dickless said, it wouldn’t make sense for everyone to buy new tables. Pong bar would be a retrofit to existing tables at an attractive pricepoint. Also with a 9ft table players would still keep their cups on the edge, players would still lean and mess the cups up.

the last thread on this ended because i posed a simple scenario, and everyone that was FOR the pong bar had no response. but low & behold here we are again. except now we’re 2 months away from the next season (2011).

so if the intent would be to have the pong bar in use for the 2012 wsobp, then the 2011 satellite season should be played with the bar… otherwise bpong just looks like a bunch of misfits who change the equipment/rules in the middle of a season.

thus, where are the prototypes for foster, zen, and whoever else is willing to test these out? as somebody who’s not particularly for this pong bar, i’m at least willing to see what the promoter’s who try using them would have to say about the results. however, with no prototypes out being used there is no added value in the argument for using them, except for the fact that a few people think it’s a good idea.

so please somebody who has some intiative, enough desire, and can actually follow through on something go ahead and get these made, and out to promoters in the next two weeks… so they can then be tested for 4 weeks before the next world series and then put into use for the 2011 season.

the last thread on this ended because i posed a simple scenario, and everyone that was FOR the pong bar had no response. but low & behold here we are again. except now we’re 2 months away from the next season (2011).

so if the intent would be to have the pong bar in use for the 2012 wsobp, then the 2011 satellite season should be played with the bar… otherwise bpong just looks like a bunch of misfits who change the equipment/rules in the middle of a season.

thus, where are the prototypes for foster, zen, and whoever else is willing to test these out? as somebody who’s not particularly for this pong bar, i’m at least willing to see what the promoter’s who try using them would have to say about the results. however, with no prototypes out being used there is no added value in the argument for using them, except for the fact that a few people think it’s a good idea.

so please somebody who has some intiative, enough desire, and can actually follow through on something go ahead and get these made, and out to promoters in the next two weeks… so they can then be tested for 4 weeks before the next world series and then put into use for the 2011 season.

what a joke…

stfu lfg, You suggesting I create a prototype for tourney promoters? Listen I created pongbar but I have a normal job and dont care for putting time and money into producing a working prototype. I have no intent of making money off of it and no intent of getting patents and that shit.

What it comes down do is if bpong or whoever else wants to pull the trigger. They have the resources and It’s ultimately their choice. Honestly I think they should base their decision on what they truely think about it, and not the negative views that bpong trolls post.

Dont worry urself about testing and all that jazz, theres 14 months till WS7, alot of downtime. Ur a joke.