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You people may also have experienced a group of people who due to one reason or the other, and even misconception, oppose this giant scholar of Ahl ul Sunnah and try to exclude him from Ahl e Sunnat Wal Jamaa'ah. So here I'll be clearing most of the allegations. Obviously one can not touch all the issues being a normal person with a limited knowledge but will be clearing most of the confusions which are in main streme. One by one I'll be clearing all of them InshAllaah Azzawajal.

It carries my half-year research on these allegations. I checked both groups of Ulema e Karaam, ones who are against him and the others who support him. Collected both points of view and concluded with the stuff which I'm going to post now.

Actually this thread is in connection with another thread in a community named as 'Ala Hazrat-Imam-e-AhleSunnat'. So you may experience some names also like 'Toqeer', 'Usman', Solitary Api, 'Adeel Bhai' and a few more. I was going to have this discussion there but the attitude there became so biased that I couldn't carry it out there. My posts were deleted, I was targeted by all sides and to be honest I damn care about that attitude but one needs an atmosphere to carry out a discussion so I thought that this place would be best to do so. But they are also included in the allegations against this Doctor so nothing extra would be posted.

i found it on siteTAHIRUL QADRI'S SUPPORTERS - KINDLY RESPOND TO THESE QUESTIONS .

Ok – Yeah! Sure brother.

However, before we put forward the questions to Professor Tahir Sahib within this document we would first like to pose several questions to his supporters as well, to determine their "Sunniyat" and their ability to respond.

Ahaan! Sure, go ahead.

We trust they will not emulate their Professor's evasive tactics.

Excuse me brother. This is the thing which hurts me the most. Associating something with someone without any reason shown? Don’t you find it rude on your part? Anyways..

So lets put these supporters and admirers of the Professor to a simple test through these simple questions:

Yes.

1) Do you accept the Professor's contention that there are no fundamental differences between the Sunnis and the other 72 Jahannami sects?Let’s see the references you give to support your statement.See image from minhaj.orghttp://i36.tinypic.com/2zge0zl.gifwhich clearly says "minhaj ul Quran international movement is non-political, non-sectarian and non-governmental organization blah blah blah.......Trust me I could not see this “Blah blah blah” anywhere in the link. And I haven’t consulted anyone for the clarification of the word ‘Non-Sectarian’. But according to my own knowledge, as the questions are addressed to us (the admirers of the Doctor), not only our Sunni brothers get Faiz and knowledge from this organization, but also the other schools of thought get benefited and get convinced of the Sunni Aqaaed. I suppose, that’s the reason behind that word. Arab and Ajam is getting knowledge from this very organization i.e. Minhaj ul Qur’an International and making their lives better and better. Just take my example, a Shia friend of mine and also a Deobandi friend. We three belong to three different schools of thought and yet admire the same source i.e. Minhaj ul Qur’an International and obviously the Doctor as well. Above all, I have my Father’s example in front of my eyes. He had sympathies with the Deobandi school of thought earlier and used to call this Doctor as ‘Media man’, ‘Drame Baaz’, ‘Actor’ and many other harsh words of same kind. But when he started listening to him he got convinced and convinced to the cores. I guess, I can not give any bigger example than this for the word ‘Non-Sectarian’.If this is non-sectarian organization then why minhajis call themselves sunni? and why Dr tahir sahib is not exlcuded from sunniyat?

I would like you to read the above statements again for the clearance of this point as well. And would like to share a verse here in reply to this statement:Teri rehmaton ka Dareya, Sar e Aam chal raha haiMujhey bheek mil rahi hai, mera kaam chal raha hai(Referring to Prophet {Peace and blessings be upon Him})In addition to the above mentioned answer, I would like to share a simple example, for what I said. In video given below, you can easily find people from different schools of thought on the stage. But one most important thing which will clear the statement that ‘Why Minhajis and the Doctor call themselves ‘Sunni’; the stuff provided and all the lectures delivered on the stage by the Doctor are purely in accordance with the beliefs of Ahl ul Sunnah. He has Never ever compromised the Aqeedah of Ahl ul Sunnah anywhere. That’s why, Sunni Minhajians and the Doctor himself are Proud Sunnis without a single doubt.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sA6upWlX8kQ&feature=related"With all praise to Allah, all the Islamic schools of thought in the issues of beliefs do not possess any differences on basic fundamental beliefs, However, in minor subsidiary matters this difference is only as far as minor details, whose types and kinds are explanatory and detailed. It is due to this, that in missionary affairs to leave the areas of fundamental beliefs and solely become immersed in subsidiary and minor details, and on the basis of this, to make other schools of thought one's target of criticism is not fairness and wisdom". Reference : Firqah Parasti Ka Khaatimah Qu Kar Mumkin Heh, page 65.

Firstly, he has himself described what he means by the phrase "basic fundamental beliefs". This translation of that particular passage missed out those mentioned beliefs. He enlists these beliefs as:

Don’t you think that these are the Fundamental Beliefs and are common among the various schools of thought?

Secondly, he said this in the context of Surah Al-Imran 3:64, which invites Jews and Christians to come closer based on the common grounds. On this, Doctor was making the following point:

In order to live peacefully in Madina, Jews were invited to the common basis with Muslims (i.e. belief in Tauhid). On the contrary, various schools of thought share the basic beliefs, then why they can't live peacefully?

Thirdly, Doctor has not said that they share ALL the beliefs. He has rather talked about basic fundamental beliefs, and has enlisted them as well. Considering this, and considering the context (of Jews) in the discussion, is this statement really against Sunniyat? Absolutely not I guess.

It is due to this, that in missionary affairs to leave the areas of fundamental beliefs and solely become immersed in subsidiary and minor details, and on the basis of this, to make other schools of thought one's target of criticism is not fairness and wisdom".

Now that’s not a new thing. In past, every mission contained people from every school of thought. And whenever the powers combined, the objective was achieved e.g. declaring Qadianis as Non-Muslim minority, Struggle for Pakistan etc. So keeping those missions in mind and keeping the mission of ‘Mustafavi Inqilaab’ in mind at the same time, one can easily understand the main theme of the whole paragraph.

Reference : Firqah Parasti Ka Khaatimah Qu Kar Mumkin Heh, page 65.

Here you can see the immense irresponsibility on the part of the questioner. He changed the page number from 31 to 65. Wow mister hero

"I curse sectarianism. I do not belong to any sect. I am a representative of the Prophet's community".

Reference: Risaalah Deed Shoneed, Lahore, 19 April 1986, page 4

The above quotation is a master-piece of telling lies. Some circles think that it is permissible to tell a lie if it is intended to degrade Dr Tahir-ul-Qadri. Although I tried to defend this statement firstly when the thread was started. But at that time, I had no knowledge about anything. But now Alhamdulillaah have got some grains of knowledge because I had to.

Doctor NEVER said what Magazine ‘Deed Shoneed’ has printed. Doctor is against sectarianism as it has been condemned many times in Qur’an. But belonging to one school of thought is not considered as sectarianism. So he has declared himself as a Sunni quite number of times. And one more thing, presenting something from a non famous magazine or a news paper which is printed in the evening and you can find them on the benches of the ‘Barber Shops’ at localities, is the weakest source to show someone’s real beliefs. If you really want to know from his own tongue or his own scriptures that what he is, then read his books or listen to his speeches. Don’t make conclusions and decisions based on ‘Risaalah Deed Shoneed’ kind of things.

Yes of course. But, what do you want to say? If you are trying to say that he doesn’t include himself in any sect then I have already answered you for that. All our beloved Akaabir have given the Bisharat that Ahl ul Sunnah is the only firqah which is destined to Jannah. And Allhamdulillaah this Doctor is a Sunni to the cores.

Yeah! I myself have observed it throughout my life that various ‘Molvis’, ‘Zakirs’ belonging to different schools of thought preach only one thing in the Khutbaat of Jummah. They don’t feel the need of telling the Uswa e Hasanah of our Beloved SallallaahoAlayheWasallima to the youth, they don’t need the feel to tell the daily Fiqahi problems of the people and don’t even feel the need to urge them to work for Islam and gain more knowledge. And in result, a young boy of 18 or 20, when goes to listen the Jummah he thinks that his religion has become scattered into numerous parts and I can not find the right way among all these. This thinking in his mind leads him to the Nafarmaani, Behayaai, Doori from Deen and various dangerous bad deeds

If we see in the past, did Sufia Karaam preach like this in Subcontinent? Or helped the generations through politeness and kindness of their inner soul? And we witnessed the results that generations reverted into Islam and the deviants came on the right path.

this is clear cut gustakhiyai Ulema Ahlesunnat.

This is a pointless blame. Which Muballigh e Deen did he criticize by name? We are driving the point of target towards our self. He is the biggest enemy of the Wahabis and so he generally blasts them out in his speeches but without mentioning their names. So please, stop taking the statements wrongly, I request you brothers.

. Do you share the Professor's belief that Aala Hazrat's Fatawa of Kufr in Husaamul Haramain against Ashraf AIi Thanwi, Rashid Ahmed Gangohi, Khaleel Ahmed Ambhetwi and Muhammad Qaasim Nonotwi, although correct then, but it is NOT APPLICABLE TODAY? (Null and void).

Context of the question itself shows it’s health. But let’s not talk anything out of our self. Although I know that this is another piece of ‘Suni Sunaai’ news. But the replies I’m going to put will not be ‘Sunay Sunaaye’ for sure. I guarantee.Ala Hazrat Imam e Ahl e Sunnat Shah Amhad Raza Khan Fazil e Bareli RehmatullaahAlayh was a Mujaddid e Deen o Millat. His position is still the same and will remain the same till the end of this world. His works are matchless. His translation, ‘Kanz ul Imaan’, is really a fruit for the Imaan. People have been getting Faiz from it and still many people are taking out pearls from it. His hold over 50 subjects shows the blessings he has from Allaah SubhanaHoo and the Beloved SallallaahoalayheWasallima. No one can call him Baatil MazAllaah ever. Neither can anyone call his work not acceptable or wrong or Baatil. The Fatawa he gave against those personalities was Haq (and not wrong) and was based on solid proofs and facts.

5/24/09 Naveed Ahmad Keeping all the above things in mind, if we look at the Fatawa, no where in the Fatawa is mentioned that whosoever will disagree with my stance and Fatwa will be a Murtad, Kharij az Deen, Kaafir or a Non-Sunni. If he has written such statement, please show me and I’ll change my mind the very next second. Doctor considers him and all the others who gave the Fatawa against them as his Crowns.

5/24/09 Naveed Ahmad But when a senior scholar gives a statement or a Fatwa in the favor or against someone or any issue, the juniors have every right to show the difference of opinion, if there is any, on the basis of research and facts. But they can never ever say that the senior scholar, Imam, Mujaddid was wrong and his Fatwa is Baatil or not acceptable. Same way, Doctor’s statement about the Fatwa is “Ala Hazrat ne jo Fatwa dia, jo aap ne tehqeeqat keen, mein unn ko Haqq samajhta hoon aur unn ko hargiz ghalat nai kehta aur mabni bar haq kehta hoon aur kabhi zindagi mein unn ko ghalat kehnay ka tasawwur bhi nahi kia”. {Answering to a similar kind of question in 1989 at a Masjid}

Now you can yourself see the two statements. I have got the reference for the statement I presented, give me yours: ).

5/24/09 Naveed Ahmad A point to be noted is that Allah and His Rasool SallallaahoAlayheWasallima’s teachings and orders, and all the Akabir in the Ummah, their orders and teachings have difference in status. No one can deny this thing. E.g. If you disagree with the teachings of Allaah and His Rasool SallallahoAlayheWasallima’s teachings, you become a Kaafir. But after the Sahaba, right from Imaam e Azam till today, no scholar including Ala Hazrat, has ever said that no one has the right to have difference of opinion with my Fatwa or whosoever disagrees, becomes a Kafir or Murtad. This is the practice right from the time of Imam e Azam RadiAllaahoAnho.

Once Hazrat Mujaddid Alf e Saani RadiAllaahoanho said to a person, “Don’t become Allaah or Rasool”. He asked what are you saying? Can anybody become Allah or Rasool MazAllah?He replied that it means that it’s only the attribute of Allaah that nothing can happen against His will, but if something goes against your will and thinking, don’t become angry and blood boiled. And whosoever disagrees with the Rasool Allaah SallallaahoAlayheWasallima becomes a Kafir right at the spot. So that’s the wisdom which was taught to us by our Akaabir. Where are we going?

5/24/09 Naveed Ahmad Imam Shafa`i once said,”I am right with the possibility that I may be wrong, and the ones who are against me are wrong with the possibility that they may be right”. Just look at the wisdom of our Akaabir and Imams.. Imam e Azam’s own students Imam Abu Yusuf and Imam Muhammad, disagreed with the Imam e Azam himself on thousands of issues. But no one became a deviant(http://www.geocities.com/~abdulwahid/abuhanifah/al-imam.html).Imam Muhammad was the student of Imam Maalik also, and at the same time disagreed with him on several issues and at the same time no one became a deviant. Imam Safa`i was the student of Imam Muhammad; he not only disagreed with him on issues but also created a new Madhab. And yet, no one became a deviant. Then Imam Shafa`i was the grand teacher of Imam Ahmad bin Humbal, he also disagreed with him on issues and also created a new Madhab. But no one dared to call any of them as deviant.

5/24/09 Naveed Ahmad Now let’s analyze the merits of Adaab. Imam Abu Hanifa RadiAllaahoAnho had the Fatwa of not doing Rafa Yadayn, where as his later grand grand student Imam Shafa`i gave the Fatwa of doing Rafa Yadayn in Namaz. But whenever Imam Shafa`i used to go to Imam e Azam’s Shrine, he didn’t do Rafa Yadayn in the Namaz, out of respect, acted against his own research for the respect of his grand grand teacher. Going against his own Fatwa. This was the time when people had open minds and had places in hearts to accept each other.

All this was to be told to show you the original soul of ‘Difference in Opinion’.

Have you ever looked for the Fatwa against Yazeed from Imam e Azam’s Fatawa? If not then it’s of ‘Sakoot’ .

He has shown Silence over his matter, but today most of us call him a Kafir and no doubt he should be called a Kafir and was a deviant and an ignorant. But going against Imam e Azam’s Fatwa of silence over the matter changed our Hannafiyat or Sunniyat? Or of any of our Akabir after Imam e Azam? No surely not, then why is Doctor being blamed for having difference in opinion in just two or three issues with the earlier Akaabir? Like Imam Shafa`i?

Long time ago when Doctor Sahib felt an unbearable pain in lungs, he had to give lecture on the topic of Tasawwuf (Sufism) at Lahore. He sent someone to Lohari (a place where a Hakeem sold medicine for pain in Lungs). He sent the person to get it for him and laid on bed for a while. In dream he went out of his home and someone told him that you are out of your home and AlaHazrat has come to see you, he’s inside. He rushed back in and found AlaHazrat sitting in his room. That was the first time AlaHazrat blessed him with his Ziyaarat. He said why have you come to see me? You could have call me there in Bareli? Why you suffered the pain? He replied you were suffering from pain and I was informed. So came to see you.

AlaHazrat was wearing ‘Ehraam’ shareef. This clothing shows his status that in what condition he is in the Ruhaani duniya as well . He called Doctor to bless him with a hug and when he hugged him, the cloth of Ehram felt down from his chest and his chest touched Doctor’s chest directly without curtains and the faiz transferred from AlaHazrat’s chest to his.

5/24/09 Naveed Ahmad He asked him then when will you go back to Bareli? He replied that I’ll listen to your lecture and then will move back. Let me clear the point that whenever a senior sitts in a Majlis of a junior, he sitts there to give away the faiz, not to earn something. And keep an eye, that may he not get detracted. While explaining all this relation, he was sitting in a Masjid and gave his Shahaadah, and said that may Allaah and His Rasool’s laanat on the liar, and the Angels’, and all the Momins’ till the day of judgment. No one can snatch AlaHazrat’s nisbat from anyone and neither is anyone the ‘Thekaydaar’ of AlaHazrat AlayheRehmat. His faiz is there in the Tehreek Minhaj ul Qur’an along with many other Holy Fayyuz..

5/24/09 Naveed Ahmad At residence of Saiyyid Wajaa'at Rasool Qaadri and in the presence of the following individuals; Hazrat Allamah Kaukab Noorani Okarvi, Saiyyid Riaasat Ali Qaadri, Hajee Shafee Muhammad Qaadri, Professor Majeedul Qaadri and his former supporter and sympathiser Hazrat Maulana Ghulaam Haider Saiyidi, he uttered these words. If this news is wrong then wht dont he declare it in public.

Well he has already done it. I just showed one example. And if really he has said so, then call these Ulema in front of people and take their oath on Qur’an because it’s very important for the sake of Iman of people and today generations love this doctor and admire him. They should open his reality, isn’t it? But then, as always, nothing like that. Someone used a sentence against me that people don’t answer because they don’t have any. I would say nothing further.. Judge this situation yourself now .

5/24/09 Naveed Ahmad Why does he pray behind kafir and murtad wahabis/deobandies and also want others to do the same.

Who told you he does? Show me the reference for this line. Asstaghfirullaah..

If this news is wrong then wht dont he declare it in public.

Doctor made some initial attempts to clarify his point of view in front of ulama. He wrote letters to clarify his stand on various issues. Can we say that he has done nothing about resolving these issues?

It is true that his priority was always something else. So in a session, when his students asked him about this, his response was something like this:

5/24/09 Naveed Ahmad "Should I spend time in defending my position in the eyes of some ulama, or should I spend this time to defend the image of Islam in the eyes of the whole world? I want to do the work which would save our generations from not only the attack of bad aqida but also from the attacks that non-Muslims are making on Islamic thought. If I could do enough work to strengthen Islam, it matters least whether I could defend my position or not. I have a limited time and I don't want to spend it in defending my personal image. With the blessing of Allah I hold the beliefs of Ahl-us-Sunnah, and would remain a Sunni till my death Inshallah."

5/24/09 Naveed Ahmad Who doesn't know that Aqaid of Ahl-e-Sunnat are seriously under threat because of a Saudi sponored compaign? Under the influence of this compaign, a large number of Sunni youth is converting to Wahabism. The situation is getting worse because the local Sunni ulema are usually not well-equipped with the references of Quran and Hadith to defend their aqida. Secondly, there are very few books who answer the questions raised against our aqida.

At this time of crisis, Doctor has really come to rescue with his series of books on aqida. He has written detailed books on topics like

Milad has undeniable proofs of aqida of Ahl-e-Sunnat. These books are extremely effective even to convince the people of other aqida. Similarly his lectures are also a very powerful medium of communication.

5/24/09 Naveed Ahmad Once a friend of mine gave his CD on the topic of Milad-un-Nabi SallallaahoAlayheWasallima to a Deobandi and when he returned the CD, he was totally convinced about permissibility of this blessed event. The biggest proof can be seen on every Milaad when we see the Principal of the biggest Deobandi Institute of Pakistan, Jamia Ashrafia, on the stage with numerous other Sunni Scholars and bazurghaan e Din and other people from other schools of thought.

At this critical time, shouldn't we concentrate on external attacks on our aqida, rather than criticizing each other?

5/24/09 Naveed Ahmad Difference of Opinion on the issue of Takfir by AlaHazrat.

Now let’s see AlaHazrat’s way as well. Allama Fazl e Haq Khairabadi (he is among the buzurgaan of AlaHazrat AlayheRehma) issued the Fatwa of Kufr on Shah Ismail Dehlvi. And AlaHazrat AlayheRehma, gave conditions and around 70 reasons of the kufr in his Fatawa but in the presence of Allama Fazl e Haq KhairAbadi RehmatullaaAlayh’s fatwa didn’t issued the Fatwa of Kufr against Shah Ismail Dehlvi (the one who wrote many kufriya statements including that ‘Bhai bhai’ concept in his books). Now whom would you call on the weaker end of Imaan? He is giving reasons and conditions and still not giving the Fatwa of Kufr on some Hikmat and may be because he didn’t have conversations with him in his life because he was earlier than him. Whatsoever was the case, we witnessed a difference of opinion even on the matter of Takfeer, from AlaHazrat AlayheRehma as well. Then why is this Doctor on being blamed for having one?

5/24/09 Naveed Ahmad Even a bigger issue.

Let these Ulema e Deoband alone, people (Ulema) had even differences on the matter of Iman of the Parents of Holy Prophet SallallaahoAlayheWasallima. Even Hazrat Mulla Ali Qari had the first Fatwa of Kufr against the parents of Prophet SallallaahoAlayheWasallima MaazAllaah. Although his own teacher Imam Ibn e Hajr Makki al-Haitmi had the Fatwa of Iman regarding them. Then he saw a dream and got it’s tabeer from some of his teachers and changed his madhab and then issued his fatwa in the favor of Iman of the parents of Holy Prophet SallallaahoAlayheWasallima. Now tell me, whom would you call a Non-Sunni?

5/24/09 Naveed Ahmad If he didnt uttered these words then why did he call kafir Thanvi as Molana Ashraf Ali thanvi in one of his lectures which i heard myself on Qtv

Alright. Yeah! I remember which speech are you talking about. It was the Alimi Milaad Conference at Minar e Pakistan, the largest Milad celebrated throughout the world.

Ok let’s have a look at this statement now.

Allama Ibn e Tehmiyah is known as Shaikh ul Islam in the books of history. Read the Fatawa of Jalaal ud Deen Suyyuti, Imam Ibn e Hajr al-Makki al-Haitmi, Imam Qustulaani, Imam Sharani and Imam Nabhani. They all have given strict Fatawa against him because he had extreme wrong believes towards our Aqah AlayheSalatoSalaam. E.g. He was of the opinion that when someone makes a journey for the sake of Ziyarat of the exalted shrine of Prophet SallallaahoalayheWasallima, it’s prohibited Nauzubillaah.

5/24/09 Naveed Ahmad But when these exalted Ulema gave their Fatawa against him, even the Fatawa of Kuft, they used the term ‘Shaikh ul Islam’ with his name . This is the tradition, Adaab, Hayaa and stance of the people of knowledge and the exalted scholars of Ahl ul Sunnah right from the start. Did the Doctor use the phrase of RehmatullaahAlayh with Mr. Thanvi’s name? NO. People just intend to go against a person without a solid reason and then after that, they see that person with the eye of doubt only.

5/24/09 Naveed Ahmad next thought.......watch image below where he excluded Ala'Hazrat(Heart of Ahlesunnat Wa jama'at) from the list of mujadid's he mentioned in his book "Firqa Parasti ka Khatima kiyun ker mumkin hai"page 71,72

He has not used any word or phrase like ‘List of Mujaddids’ or anything like that as the heading of that paragraph. So you can’t blame him for something which he has not done. He doesn’t exclude him from the list of Mujaddids, he calls him ‘Mujddid e Deen o Millat’. Don’t assume everything by yourself brother.Doctor is himself a great admirer of Kanz-ul-Iman Shareef and has also written a book in its praise ("Kanz-ul-Iman Ki Fanni Haisiyat"). On the opening ceremony of Irfan-ul-Quran (i.e. Doctor’s translation) he said: "There are so big names in the list of translators of Quran, that I am feeling shy even to stand as the last person in their line."

"Firqa parasti ka Khatima kiyun ker mumkin hai" is full of SULLAH KULLIAT stuff. This book clearly shows that his intentions are no where near slogan of Aghlesunnat Wa Jama'at that Kafir should be called kafir

Here you have caught yourself in a big problem my friend.

5/24/09 Naveed Ahmad Pir Jamat Ali Shah Muhadas Ali Puri declared that whoever would not unite under the leadership of Quaid-e-Azam (i.e. a Shia) his funeral would not be offered by our muridin. What would you call him? A Sullah e Kulli or not a supporter of the slogan of Ahl e Sunnah and declare him out of Ahl ul Sunnah?

What is your fatwa about those who worked under the leadership of Yusuf Banoori (a Deobandi) in 1973’s Tahreek-e-Khatam-e-Nabuwat

Comment: In order to declare one school (i.e. Qadiyanis) as kafir, people made another “kafir” (i.e. Deobandi) as their leader? What a surprise! And yet didn’t become Sulah e Kulli or anything like that. It’s not that I don’t know the meaning of Sulah e Kulli, but if you say that the point behind that joining was a certain mission then there is a certain important in fact a damn important mission behind this joining. Blaming someone a Sulah e Kulli without knowing anything is a bit non-serious attitude, don’t you think so?

5/24/09 Naveed Ahmad What is your fatwa about those who worked under the leadership of Mufti Mahmood (a Deobandi) in 1977’s Tahreek-e-Nizam-e-Mustafa

Almost every big Sunni name was involved there.

Comment: The movement is run under the leadership of a “kafir” (i.e. Deobandi), but the title of the movement is “Tehreek-e-Nizam-e-Mustafa”. What a surprise!

We looked at the history. Many Ulema e Ahl ul Sunnah collaborated with other schools of thought for certain missions and their Sunniyat wasn’t disturbed. But when Doctor, takes them under his own leadership, and not collaborates and works under their leadership, becomes a Non-Sunni and is asked that what face is he going to show to Allaah and His Rasoo SallallaahoAlayheWasallima? Read the book ‘Fitna e Tahiri ki Haqeeqat’ Pg. 2. It sates “Professor Tahir ul Qadri jo in sab ko apni baghal mein liye betha hai, yeh Allaah aur uss k Rasool ko kya mooh dikhaye ga?”. Judge the level of thinking yourself. Is their any research work behind writing the scriptures? Will discuss these both books in detail.

1. Fitna e Tahiri ki Haqeeqat2. Khatre ki ghanti.

Solitary Api sent me the book “Khatre ki ghanti!” (or may be Irfan Qadri), through mail and I wish they would have read it once before sending it to me. But no worries, Api you did your job and I’m doing mine.

5/24/09 Naveed Ahmad Coming to Tauqeer Bhai and the other questioners again. What is your fatwa about those who remained silent about the takfir issue against the same Ulema e Deoband whom AlaHazrat declared as Kuffar, though the quotations from the relevant books were presented to them

5/24/09 Naveed Ahmad Now you remember your comment on me when the issue of Ahl ul Bait was under discussion? You used Pir Karam Shah RehmatullahAlayh’s name. Now let’s see what you call him. A Sullah e Kulli or a Non-Sunni as he also showed silence over the issue of Takffir on those Deobandi Ulema even after their scriptures were also presented before him, but on the basis of some researches and due to some Ihtiyaat, remained silent.

What happens to the slogan when we very proudly give references from the book of a Wahabi, and according to you a Kafir? Yeah! I am talking about the ‘Tafseer Ibn e Kathir’. Search about Hafiz Ibn e Kathir’s beliefs. Think over it again and again that what a big mistake you have done by saying that this is the slogan of Ahl ul Sunnah. Dare to put these above mentioned personalities out of Ahl ul Sunnah and place them out from under the flag of Ahl ul Sunnah and I know no son of a mother can do this bold and stupid thing.

5/24/09 Naveed Ahmad What would you like to say about your slogan thingy now?

The point of view of Dr Tahir-ul-Qadri is not something new. He is standing in the group of Pir Mehr Ali Shah, Ulama-e-Farangi Mahal, Irshad Hussain Muhadas Rampuri, Pir Jamat Ali Shah Muhadas Alipuri, Molana Hamid Ali Khan of Multan, Sheikh-ul-Islam Qamr-ud-Din Sayalvi and Zia-ul-Umat Pir Karam Shah Sahib Al-Azhari. If you love to judge Dr Tahir-ul-Qadri as standing on the weakest level of Iman then you’ll have to judge the same for all of these personalities also. You would surely give your verdict with sincerity about those who not only remained silent about this but they also worked under these “kafirs” or side by side them. Remember, kindnesses of AlaHazrat are with Minhajians forever.

Faiz e Raza jaari rahay ga..

5/24/09 Naveed Ahmad According to Doctor both of the following approaches are correct:

Declaring other schools as kafir (if your research leads to that conclusion)

OR

Showing a silence over the issue of takfir (also on the basis of research and in some cases a bit of Ihtiyaat)

Doctor has opted for the second option as many other Sunni scholars have done in the past, so please try to avoid associating the things with Ahl ul Sunnah.

And these things that "he calls them right" are absolutely not correct. Provide me a single reference. He is showing the silence on the basis of some facts and research and showing that research to people is not a proof that he is considering them right, same as Peer Mehr Ali Shah RehmatullaahAlayh and many others.

5/24/09 Naveed Ahmad And after that, the Hadeeth you quoted is rightly being followed by Doctor. E.g. Look at the complete series of the videos in which he is exposing the biggest Faajirs of present times. And for a bit more clarifications, let me tell you one more thing. This Doctor has done his Bismillaah in Uloom e Diniyah and Uloom e Darsiyah on from Maulana Zia ud Din Madni Sahib. And many Ulema are witnesses to this like Maulana Umer Naeemi and a few more who were present there too. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-rFiJNpzBgA

5/24/09 Naveed Ahmad Also see:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7RxuRIKepPg&feature=relatedI can provide you dozens of links in his favor defending his position in this regard.

5/24/09 Naveed Ahmad Do you believe like the Professor that Allah's beloved Prophet - Sallal Laahu Alaihi Wasallam - was not bestowed with any authority whatsoever? (lqtiyaar).

May Allaah SubhanaHoo forgive the one who associated these words with Doctor. But I can’t find a reason why is he doing so and on what basis?

"When the Creator of the Universe did not give the Prophet the authority that he appoint anything according to his wishes in the affairs of religion...".

Oh here you give the reference as well. Alright, let’s look into it. I would love to know the name of the book from which you gave us the snapshot. Most probably it’s one of those books written against him.

5/24/09 Naveed Ahmad refutations of this aqeedah never provided although new edition have been altered to exclude these words.

If that book is really changed, and people have read those words in that book, they should publish that book again with the original stuff, ain’t it? And also should give it to us to read it here on internet. Good idea, isn’t it? No worries, I’ll comment on those books as well but after replying this question.

5/24/09 Naveed Ahmad Once again, while giving the reference to the book he skipped out the right page number. He changed it from 55 to 86? I don’t know why is he doing so? To misguide the readers to the wrong page numbers so that they can themselves say that they have changed the wordings? Or something else is going on in his mind. Allaah and His Habib SallallaahoAlayheWasallima know better.

Compare the wording with its "translation". Do you find any drop of sincerity on the part of the translator?

5/25/09 Naveed Ahmad The book is emphasizing that the Prophet SallallaahoAlayheWasallima was awarded with all kinds of authorities, and still he didn't force others to accept Islam, and people are comparing it with Taqwiyatul Imaan's statement "Whosever’s name is Muhammad or Ahmed has no authority over anything". Pathetic!

Doesn't this act show extreme lack of integrity? Are you people getting the idea that what sort of intentions are going on to prove him wrong by any possible means, even the unfair ones?

You have quoted only one book of Doctor, i.e. "Firqah Parasti Ka Khaatimah Qu Kar Mumkin Heh" It is only a 100-pages book. I would suggest the readers to read the book themselves. It is so self-explanatory that you won't need any external explanations.

5/25/09 Naveed Ahmad Expecting this sort of Gustakhi of Beloved SallallaahoAlayhewasllima is totally out of context and impossible for me. Because, it’s because of his efforts that it’s in the constitution of Pakistan that the punishment of Gustakh e Rasool is a death penalty. A huge group of Ulema e Karaam were present there to defend this statement of Ahl ul Sunnah and an equal amount of other scholars from other Schools of Thought were also there. There he took the stand and stood like a lion against the other schools and won the debate. A grand Mufti of Ahl ul Sunnah Mufti Syed Shuja’at Ali Qadri said at that moment to that huge group that “Shukr hai Allah ka k Tahir ul Qadri maujood tha, agar wo na hota tou hum Ahl e Sunnat mein koi aisa aadmi na tha jo aisay dalaael deta jo inho ne diye”. Associating this kind of wrong statement with that man is really a big example of irresponsibility.

5/25/09 Naveed Ahmad Another example of so called ‘Gustakhi’:“As far as the grade of faith is concerned, faith in Allaah Subhanahoo will be first. And that Is the first because Allaah Is the highest being the creator, and grade of faith in Prophet SallallaahoAlayheWasallima possesses the second position. Now coming to the other dimension of the faith, and that is the aspect of sequence, here the faith in Prophet hood is the first and sequentially faith in Tauheed comes second”.http://www.islamtune.com/play-video-532.html. Tune to 22:00 for the related wordings and also remove dot after ‘html’. . Tauheed mili un k sadqay. I guess this is the slogan of Ahl ul Sunnah, if there is one. Is he really going against it?

5/25/09 Naveed Ahmad Do you accept the ruling of the Professor on the Mas' ala of "Diyat" and reject the consensus of the lmaams.of Hanafi, Shafaee, Maliki and Hambali Mazaahib etc?

It is right that his opinion on the issue of Diyat is different from the opinion of most of other scholars. When this issue was raised he said that he has made his opinion in the light of Quran and Sunnah. He invited the opposing scholars to make a panel and raise any objection about his opinion and he promised to clear that objection. No one could come up with any solid objection about his opinion, except that his opinion was different from some of the previous scholars.

Difference of opinion in scholarly matters is a usual thing in Islam. There is no need to say that either Dr. Sahib is wrong, or the other scholars are wrong.

There are many issues in which Hanafis have a different opinion than the other 3 schools. As you are asking this question from Taqlid’s point of view, the inclusion of other schools’ opinion is not relevant. Ideally you should ask that how is he differing from the Hanafi view on this issue.

Now let we look into the matter more closely. Did Imam Abu Hanifa RadiAllaahoAnho give Fatwa in the favor of Half diyat of Woman? No, Imam Abu Hanifa RadiAllaahoAnho DID NOT give fatwa in the favor of half diyat for women; so please correct this misconception. (I have confirmed this from two scholars, not from the Minhaj Ulema Council though). These were the later Hanafi scholars who gave this fatwa. So Doctor has not refuted Imam Abu Hanifa’s fatwa in this case.

5/25/09 Naveed Ahmad Does the issue of diyat really enjoy the status of Ijma? Doctor has explained that this issue has received many differing opinions from earlier scholars and hence it is not easy to say that there is an Ijma on this issue. He explained all this in a comprehensive speech on this topic in the presence of great scholars like Niazi Sahib and Kazmi Sahib etc. I have not listened to that speech but those who attended this have informed me about this.

Ijtehad and Taqlid are not two opposing things. Taqlid means that who is not a mujtahid should accept the opinion of Imam without asking for its argument. But a mujtahid is allowed to do Ijtehad (though he cannot become mujtahad-e-mutliq). In fact there are 6 different levels between mujtahed-e-mutliq and a muqalid (for details see Mufti Ahmad Yar Khan’s famous book "Ja Al-Haq").So Ijtehad and Taqlid CAN go side by side.

5/25/09 Naveed Ahmad Now let’s look at the image you gave.

The six classes between Mujtahid and Muqalid are not an addition from my side or the Doctor; they have been defined and elaborated by Mufti Ahmad Yar Khan in his famous book "Ja Al-Haq".

The fatwa of half diyat for women was given by later Hanafi scholars (AFTER Imam Abu Hanifa). Even Hanafi scholars do have different views on this issue (which Dr Sahib quoted in his talk). If Mufti Azam does not accept Doctor as a mujtahid, it is his own judgment. I won't criticize Mufti Sahib for this. But it was better if he had pointed out that which qualities of a mujtahid are missing in Doctor. You should not forget that there are at least dozens of Muftis in Pakistan with the title “Mufti-e-Azam” and they have different judgments about different personalities. For example Mufti-e-Azam Mufti Abdul-Qayum Khan Hazarvi Sahib, Mufti Muhibbullah Noori, Allama Mufti Rafiq ul Hassani Sahab (along with some other Muftis) considers Doctor as a Mujtahid and a great Scholar of Ahl ul Sunnah. Why shouldn’t we accept his view?

5/25/09 Naveed Ahmad Differences among the scholars are a normal thing in the 1400 years history of Islam. From Imam Abu Yousaf and Imam Muhammad (the 2 students of Imam Abu Hanifa) to AlaHazrat AlayheRehma, every scholar has differed with the earlier scholars. Aala Hazrat differed on thousands (and not hundreds) of places with the earlier Hannafi scholars. If Doctor has differed on one (or on a few) issues with some, no sky should fall apart. What say?

I feel like crying after reading this sort of statement from a Mufti who has so much Aqeedat among the Ummah. Showing this much disrespect on the basis of making joke is allowed in Islam and showing difference in opinion on the basis of facts and figures on some issue is harmful and not allowed? Wow. Is this a matter of joke or the matter of Deen and of thousands and lacks of people and their faiths and Aqaaid? Anyways, let’s move forward.

5/25/09 Naveed Ahmad n Mr. Naveed!! one thing I want to say u that once I used to follow dr tahir ul Qadri n listen his lectures n read his books...n I also used to feel as u r doing right now.... but when I started using orkut...one of my Islamic Brothers guided me...when I came to know some reality about him which I had not known before, I immediately left him...now AlhamduLILLAH I m okay n may ALLAH keep me on Rightous path n give me death in the Service of Islam....

MashAllaah, I don’t doubt your intentions Tauqeer Bhai. But one thing I also want to tell you that if you love someone, or according to you, follow someone, and then find things against him as well, you should try to search for their reality. If we start saying that this many things are going against him so he’s not right, then go and search the web you can find huge amount of Fitnah going against our beloved sallalahoAlayheWasallima, the most perfect creation of God. In Ummah, if you see the history, Imam e Azam Abu Hanifa RadiallaahoAnho faced the maximum opposition. So can we call him wrong straight forwardly? Nauzubillah. Imam Malik Rehmatullaah Alayh used to have our Aqah SallallaahoAlayheWasallima’s ziyarat every night in his life. And the way people treated him is just not explainable. Then he used to say that the things will get clear on them when my funeral would be prayed. Making your opinion on the stuff given on ‘Orkut’ or a few sites is just not the right way to guide yourself in the matters of Aqeedah (Iman).

5/25/09 Naveed Ahmad Now we will move to the “Books” presented in the thread and on many other places. Irfan Qadri also sent me the links of these books considering them as very ‘Authentic’ and ‘Undeniable’

I had the ‘honor’ to read both the books which were presented. Let’s discuss them one by one in detail.

Calling a Shia a kafir is the slogan of Ahl ul Sunnah according to my Tauqeer Bhai, and at the same time the author is calling a Shia (i.e. Quid e Azam) as ‘Hazrat’? Qari Mehboob Sahab worked under a Shia and joined Muslim League which was lead by a Shia and according to my brothers, a Kafir, and his Sunniyat wasn’t hurt. But the person on whom the book is being written, when takes others under his own leadership for the purpose of Mustafavi Inqilaab, his sunniyat gets hurt and he becomes a Non-Sunni? What’s the scale to measure one’s sunniyat, it’s not given in the ‘Book’

5/25/09 Naveed Ahmad The campaign against Doctor starts from the Pg. 05 and the allegations written their can be viewed that how authentic they are. Read the allegation number 2 and 3 out of the 6 allegations. Can you see references there in the Book for them? And if the references are the same as you brothers gave me here, then I should say nothing on it. Book carries a weak health then. Saying this on the basis of the Fatawa of AlaHazrat AlayheRehma. Have you ever read his fatawa? Did you see those letters, those proofs, the allegations, references and then the exact Fatwa? Please, have a look at them and you’ll say same sort of thing regarding it. Read the first paragraph of Pg. 5, where it’s stated that it’s not allowed to do Ijtihaad. That’s the gist of the whole paragraph. I’ll not comment, you can yourself judge it better.

All the things he is mentioning under the allegation that he offers prayers behind other sects like Shia, Deobandi, Wahabi etc., prove to be wrong because I have already presented the health of those allegations. People use the ‘magazines’ as references in their books? Have you ever seen such thing among Ulema e Ahl ul Sunnah? The Akabireen I’m talking about. No, the points and statements have always been taken direct from the books of the personalities being discussed.

He lounges a new sect in his book with the name “Firqa e Professoriah”. Illa MashAllaah. I fear where is he directing the Ummah? He said that Professor cursed the Ahl ul Sunnah as well. Let me use these words in Urdu as they will present the real sense. “ …. In se pucho k in sab firqoh per laanat bhej ker Ahl e Sunnat per bhi laanat bhej gaye….”. Wow. Talking without a single reference. What can I say now? He is using a statement based on the reference from ‘Deed Shoneed’. You yourself can judge it. I leave it on you brothers and sisters.

5/25/09 Naveed Ahmad ”Khatre ki Ghanti!”

I would only present one example. And then you can get an idea yourself. On Pg. 16, you can see a heading ‘Ander se Wahhabi’. See if any references quoted? Any authentic ones or even weak ones? I could see one claim there on the page. Read the data under the heading where it states that he is a Wahhabi because he has named his foundation as ‘Minhaj ul Quran’, while Ahl ul Sunnah Wal Jama’at name their institutions as ‘Ghausia’, ‘Chishtia’ … Now you can justify the health of the whole book yourself. Naming one’s foundation as ‘Minhaj ul Qur’an’ leads one to the Wahhabiyat? I pay solutes to him on agreement with this bold statement by a Wahabi Magazine ‘Al Islam’ and placing it in his ‘Book’. Not criticizing on his own personality. Just examining his scriptures. It’s not a ‘Gustakhi’ as per my knowledge. Now let’s see is he a Wahhabi in real? Look at his Aqaaed through his scriptures:

And many more. And just read these books. These will reveal his ‘Wahhabiyat’ better than that heading under which the name of the foundation is given as a reference. I assure you. And watch his hundreds of lectures on the Seerah of Rasool Allaah SallallaahoAlayheWasallima studded with facts and figures and proofs from Qur’an and Ahadeeth. One should really think before speaking. That’s what Solitary Api has taught me.

5/25/09 Naveed Ahmad (3) Do you believe like the Professor that Salaah behind the Wahabi, Deobandi, Tablighi and Shia lmaams is permissible?

No, because there is no such statement uttered by him yet. And I assure you that he won’t even utter in future as well. Now moving towards your references..

"I do not only like performing Salaah behind the Wahabis and Shias but whenever I get the opportunity I perform Salaah behind them". Reference : Risaalah Deed Shoneed, Lahore, 19 April 1986, page 4

Once again, Risaalah Deed Shoneed. I am not explaining it again. Just I’ll write the relative most thing which is that he answered in the wording that it’s totally permissible to pray behind a Shafai, Maliki or a Humbali Imaam as they all belong to the different schools of law of the same school of though i.e. Ahl ul Sunnah Wal Jama’at. People of the magazine and after them some readers also, changed the unfolded arms with Shia and ‘Rafa Yadayn’ with Wahaabis. This is the most unfair one could ever to to this statement. And whenever I have demanded the proofs for these statements, it’s said “Attempts are being made to get those cassettes”. You can even find this statement on one of the sites raising these sort of questions also. I’m waiting for those attempts to get successful since beginning of this research and have found that people before me have been waiting since years.

Then a tiny pic is used as a reference which is from a book written against the Doctor. I would like to have the original magazine because scanned pages can be found everywhere from the ‘books’. Anyone can write anything in the book and then scan it as a reference? Mind-blowing, isn’t it? first | < previous | next > | last report spam reply « back to topics

5/25/09 Naveed Ahmad Then a video is given as a ‘Proof’. When I saw that clip, it was really tempered with (by cutting / editing some parts of it). In it, Doctor promised that he would sit there for the whole night to clarify all of their doubts. Still that clip contained only a few minutes of Doctor’s response.

We need to understand the following:

1. Every Deobandi is not Gustakh. If some of their elders have written terrible things, it doesn’t mean that every person of that school accepts or follows their sayings.

2. If someone is “proved” as a Gustakh, then he no longer remains a Muslim. Obviously there is no question of offering prayer behind him in that case. According to Doctor’s verdict Gustakh-e-Rasool should be given death penalty according to Islamic law. In fact the law of death penalty for Gustakh-e-Rasool was approved only after Doctor’s detailed arguments on the matter.

3. There are numerous examples where Deobandis are Asiq-e-Rasool SallallaahoAlayheWasallima and show the required respect in this matter. I know about many of such examples, and you might also have known such examples. The principal of Jamiya Ashrafiya (Lahore's leading Deobandi institute) attend Mahfil-e-Milad about every year. He is full of love and respect of the Prophet SallallaahoAlayheWasallima and was an eye witness of the miracle of Ism-e-Muhammad SallallaahoAlayheWasallima that happened at a Milad night. When some Salafi scholars tried to negate that miracle, he stood firm and defended it. And you may have seen the News on this Eid Milad un Nabwi SallallaahoAlayheWasallima on GEO that Moo e Mubarak was placed in the Sehan of Jameya Ashrafiyah here at Lahore campus where he’s the principal, and was said that we believe that Aaqah SallallaahoAlayheWasalima Is right here with us and listening to our prayers.

5/25/09 Naveed Ahmad 4. In the case of that clip, Doctor clearly stated that all Deobandis are not Gustakh, and no one informed him about any objectionable belief of that particular Deobandi scholar i.e. Professor Idrees. This was also confirmed (in that clip) by some Sunni scholar that he didn’t inform Doctor about his detailed beliefs.

Now ask a few questions from yourself:

1. If we are to judge Doctor’s beliefs on such matters, what is a more authentic source for it?

- a short, 25-years older, video clip in which answers of Doctor have been edited to defame him

--- OR ---

- thousands of lectures and hundreds of book in which Doctor has elaborated his beliefs with all the details

2. If the beliefs of Doctor are really such (as presented by the clip) then why they had to rely on an (edited) clip which was made around 25 years ago. Why, during a period of a quarter of a century, they couldn’t get any thing else to prove their claim? (In fact the person who has uploaded this has written in its description: “The video quality is low, because it was made with a Mobile Phone”. It’s not the video which is uploaded by that man himself. That’s on google video I guess. I myself have seen it written in the discription I wonder those scholars were so advanced to have a camera in a mobile phone 27 to 28 years ago, though it was apparently not available even in USA at that time).

5/25/09 Naveed Ahmad 3. Dr Sahib’s services for Ahl-us-Sunnah are unmatchable, and history would prove it (Inshallah). His Dora-e-Bukhari alone has converted 200 Salafi scholars of Europe in to Sunni school while hundreds of television viewers have admitted their conversion through letters. Dr Sahib never asks them to convert; it is his way of presenting things with impresses them. Now, what is the contribution of others towards the Sunni cause? Fatwas are not the only way to serve this cause; it requires a lot more which Dr Sahib is doing with all the success (Al-Hamdu Lillah).

5/25/09 Naveed Ahmad In a nutshell:

1. Deobandi is not a synonymous of Gustakh. Many of them are not Gustakh.

2. Doctor’s stand about Gustakh-e-Rasool is more than clear.

3. If you want to learn about Doctor’s views then listen to him directly, and do not make your impression based on some 28-years old (edited) clips and Deeds Shoneeds

5/25/09 Naveed Ahmad (4) Do you HONESTLY BELIEVE AND ACCEPT that the Professor's "dreams" attributed to our beloved Prophet are TRUE?Hear it yourself, then decide.

Yeah, I’ve already heard it like hundred times. False things have always been attributed to great personalities of Islam. So Quran has asked us to authenticate any news before believing in it. [In Sura Hujrat 49:6]

O Believers! If some wicked person brings you any news, inquire thoroughly into its truth (lest) you should cause (undue) harm to a people unknowingly, and later feel regret for what you have done.

So lots of things are either falsely attributed to Dr. Tahir ul Qadri or are quoted out of context to mislead people. So you are suggested to always authenticate such news, before believing in them.As far as the issue of the dream is concerned, it is briefly addressed here:

5/25/09 Naveed Ahmad The Dream Summarized

In one of his speeches, he described one of his dreams. The summary of Dr. Tahir-ul-Qadri's words follow here:

”In a dream I saw that there are a lot of people gathered in a ground. Someone told me that the Prophet SallallaahoAlayheWasallima is present there and is very angry that why people of Pakistan have done nothing for Islam. On this I went to the Prophet SallallahoAlayheWasallim and begged forgiveness on the behalf of my country fellows. After some time, the Prophet SallallahoAlayheWasallima's anger reduced and He accepted my invitation to come to Pakistan. He asked me to make arrangements of the travel including the ticket of the journey.”

5/25/09 Naveed Ahmad Propaganda against that Dream:

People, who were against Doctor, tried to make this a scandal and raised lots of objections on it. A so called religious Jamat of Pakistan got the cassette of the speech, thoroughly tempered it by omitting various parts of it, and then distributed it in the masses to confuse the people. They changed the whole theme of the speech by cutting various parts of the speech and joining them together. This was a very shameful act which was done in an attempt to degrade Doctor. A newspaper was also involved in it and launched a full-fledged campaign against Doctor.

With the blessings of Allah, all these campaigns to damage the reputation of Doctor eventually failed. The owner and chief editor of that news paper later did toba and have accepted many times that it was among the darkest acts he ever did.

Objections against the Dream:

Major objections raised about the dream were the following:

1. Doctor is using cheap ways to win popularity and hence he talks about his dreams in every other speech.

2. Why did the Prophet SallallaahoAlayheWasallima ask Doctor for the arrangements of the travel, including the ticket? Is the Prophet SallallaahoAlayheWasallima dependant on Doctor (Na Uzu Billah)?

5/25/09 Naveed Ahmad Answers to Objections:

1. Several thousand speeches / lectures of Doctor are available in audio / video format. There are only few speeches in which he mentioned about his dreams. So saying that "Doctor is using cheap ways to win popularity and hence talks about his dreams in every other speech" is very far from reality.

2. Doctor didn't narrate his dream in a public gathering. Even its cassette was not issued for masses. He rather shared this in a close circle of his companions. Doing so is directly the Sunnah of the Prophet SallallaahoAlayheWasallima. The Prophet SallallaahoAlayheWasallima used to narrate his dreams to Sahaba and Sahaba used to narrate their dreams to him. There is nothing objectionable in sharing a dream with one's companions.

3. If narration of a dream to others is called as "cheap ways to win popularity", then what would you say about the numerous books written by the elders of every school of thought in which they have described their dreams?

4. Dreams are subject to interpretation ‘Tabeer’. E.g. Imam Bukhari saw that he is removing flies from the Prophet SallallaahoAlayheWasallima. It was interpreted that he would remove the weak Ahadith from the authentic Ahadith. Similarly when Hazrat Yousaf AlayheSalaam saw planets prostrating him, the planets were interpreted as his brothers. Similarly Dr. Sahib interpreted his dream as: "Serving the Prophet SallallaahoAlayheWasallima means serving Islam. Ticket is a sign of excessive traveling for the preaching of Islam. The Prophet SallallaahoAlayheWasallima's anger is an indication that all of us should mend our ways."

Denying of a dream is a Kufr in itself. I can not bare such a Sin like ‘Kufr’ by denying his precious dreams. And especially which are attributed to our Akaabir and Awliya and then above all our Aaqah SallallaahoAlayheWasallima.

5/25/09 Naveed Ahmad It’s in Qur’an in Surah Yunus Ayat: 64 :-

“There is for them the good news (of honour and recognition) in the life of the world, and (also of forgiveness and intercession) in the Hereafter. (Or there are blessed spiritual visions in this world in the form of pious dreams, and in the Hereafter in the shape of effulgent disclosures of Allah’s Absolute Beauty and Sight.) The Commands of Allah never change. That is the colossal achievement.”

In all the Tafaseer of Qur’an majeed it’s written and told that here in this ayah, ‘Good News’ refer to those pious dreams which the pious people are blessed with. All the Mufassireen from Imam Jurair Rehmatullaahalayh to Imam Aloosi RehmatullaahAlayh have authenticated this statement in their Tafaseer.

At another place in Qur’an majeed in Surah Yusuf Ayat. 6:

“In the same way your Lord will choose you (for a divine station) and will teach you how to infer conclusions (i.e. the knowledge of the interpretation of dreams) and will perfect His Favour upon you and the House of Ya‘qub (Jacob) as He perfected it upon your fathers (grandfather and great grandfather) Ibrahim (Abraham) and Ishaq (Isaac). Indeed your Lord is All-Knowing, Most Wise”

So denying those dreams, will lead us to the ‘Kufr’. And that’s not affordable trust me. Imam Ibn e Sereen Rehmatullaahalayh, Allama Abdul Ghani Nablasi RehmatullaahAlayh in Tabeer al Rubaa has quoted a Hadeeth Shareef:

“A person who does not believe in pious dreams, doesn’t believe in Allaah and the day of Judgment”.

5/25/09 Naveed Ahmad Imam Abu al-Hassan Ash`ari who is an Imam in the world of Ahl ul Sunnah, writes in his beliefs a man becomes ‘Kafir’ by denying dreams. Now test yourself on the basis of above quotations. I here by quote some Ahadith Shareef related to the ‘Bisharaat’.

You can check these both out. I guess I don’t need to give any more. We can see same sorts of tabeeraat in our Akabir’s books and lives. Personal oppositions on one side, but one should think a million times before mocking at the things which are told by our Aqaah SallallaahoAlayheWasallima.

“Jo shakhs naik, acha khwaab dekhay tou uss per khush ho”

Sahih Muslim: 2261

I guess I have cleared the matter of dreams now. And I can say it loud that “Yes! I honestly believe in his dreams with all my heart and soul, Alhamdulillaah”. first | < previous | next > | last report spam reply « back to topics

5/25/09 Naveed Ahmad For point no. 5, can you find any reference there? Please inform me if there’s some.

5/25/09 Naveed Ahmad 8) Where you aware - prior to the arrival of the Professor to South Africa - that he performs his Salaah behind the Imaams of Wahaabis, Deobandis and Shias, etc?

I hope you give some authentic wording as a reference this time at least.

"I do not only like performing Salaah behind the Wahabis and Shias but whenever I get the opportunity I perform Salaah behind them"

O my goodness. Trust me I never knew that blames are such easy things to be put on someone’s personality. No authentic proof is given for the statement and yet it’s used at different places as a ‘REFERENCE’ for different questions. Awesome! Isn’t it? Then you gave a video as a proof. I have already explained the health and reality of that clip. You can check it once again. And I’ll suggest you brothers to remain quiet on issue of South Africa. Trust me..

5/25/09 Naveed Ahmad 9) Do you agree with the statement of the Professor when he stated that his mission is not to work for the loftiness of Sunni-Hanafiyat or for the school of the Ahle Sunnat?Are you sure? "I am not working for the loftiness of Hanafiyat or for the school of the Ahle Sunnat". Reference : Nawaa-e-Waqt Magazine, 19 December 1986, page 4. Please give this Magazine’s scanned page to me. I would love to read it if there is such statement. Because I have found hundreds and thousands of speeches in which he is working for the loftiness of Ahl ul Sunnah Aqaaed and have read over a dozen books which defend the Ahl ul Sunnah quite strongly. I would love to give a reference for such statement and at the same time would request you to provide a stronger reference, may be the scanned page?“Sirf ek hi sabq detay detay meri umar beeti, dey raha hoon deta rahoon gaFaqeerana aaye sada ker chalay, Mian khush raho hum dua ker chalayAur yehi sabaq detay detay hum bhi chalay jayen gey. Bas ek baat pallay bandh lo, saray A’maal kaam ki cheez hain, magar wo kaam tab ayen gey jab Mustafa ki ghulaami ho gi, Hazoor ki muhabbat hogi, Hazoor ki Naukri ho gi, Hazoor ki Zaat se nisbat ho gi”http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O9tdNd0NUHISee from 7:00 onwards.

5/25/09 Naveed Ahmad See from whom he is taking oath and what oath is he taking here. Oath of Rasool Allaah’s SallallaahoAlayheWasallima ghulami and naukri. Taking oath from the youth, us.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yRJQgM66Hag&feature=PlayList&p=B9B13D347ED72061&index=2 See here whom is he attacking and whom is he defending? And see the success he had in abroad where it’s really a need of the work he is doing.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WMgw5XrjVUISee here whom is he attacking..http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PbCCo_vlIno&feature=relatedCan you see whom loftiness is he working for? I hope you can.

5/25/09 Naveed Ahmad 10) Do you endorse the statement of the Professor when he said that Khomeini lived like Hazrat Ali and died like Imam Husain and that love for Khomeini demands that every child should become a Khomeini?

Once Dr. Tahir-ul-Qadri met Khomeini during an international conference, and asked him about his views about Sahaba. Khomeini gave positive views about Sahaba at that time.

As far as your objection is concerned, we need to understand 2 things:

1. Doctor used a Tashbih (i.e. simile) here and every student of Ilm-ul-Blagha knows that one common reason (known as Waja-e-Shiba) is enough to use a Tashbih. It never means that the 2 things have becomes identical. For example the Prophet SallallaahoAlayheWasallima said that the scholars of his Ummah would be like the prophets of Bani Israel. This certainly not makes the scholars equal in rank to the prophets, but the Tashbih is given based on one common reason: both would invite people to the religion. Hazoor SallallaahoAlayheWasallima called Hazrat Ali RadiAllaahoAnho as Lion of Allah. One can find thousands of bad and ugly things in a lion but the thing He was using to give the Tashbih was his bravery. It was similar to Lion. So there should not be any misconception here.

2. Khomeini, though a Shia leader, did a few wonderful things during his reign. He over-threw the American influence from Iran and brought about a revolution. He was the only one to issue a reward (at government level) for the killer of Sulman Rushdi, the Gustakh-e-Rasool. He never compromised against all the pressure exerted by America and Europe.

So, though he was a Shia, yet he took brave steps to save the honor of the Prophet SallallaahoAlayheWasallima. The Tashbih was given on the basis of these brave steps of him. I think if the greatest sinner on this earth does something to save the honor of the Prophet SallallaahoAlayheWasallima and ‘Umm ul Momineen’ Hazrat Ayesha RadiAllaahoAnha AlayheSalaam, he should be praised for that step. Or not?

5/25/09 Naveed Ahmad So this Tashbih (like many examples in Ilm-ul-Blagha) should be taken as the acknowledgement of only one characteristic of Khomeini’s personality.

(11) Is it permissible for a Sunni Muslim to attend the death anniversary gathering. and make Dua-e-Maghfirat for Khomeini, can such a person doing so be called a Sunni?

Let’s look into the proofs now.

no refutation has been reported yet. If he didnt attended death anniversary of kafir shia's leader Khomeini then he should declare it publicly.

O my goodness. I was waiting for a strong proof like a video of some news channel or a cutting of some Iranian newspaper. But.. Listen brother, if we start putting allegations like this on some person, we can come up with thousands of allegations in one single day. That we have heard this thing OR we think this, if we are wrong, why has no refutation yet arrived? Please, I beg you. Islam is not a thing to be played with. It’s a proper Deen and enjoys an immense dignity. I’d request to remove these thoughts from your minds now. If someone gets some strong news related to this, then please inform me. I’ll get it checked with my mates at Minhaj ul Quran International, who are directly in link with the Doctor himself.

5/25/09 Naveed Ahmad (12) Do you endorse the belief of your Professor that if you have to accumulate all the knowledge of the Sahaaba-e-Kiraam, it will not even be equivalent to the knowledge of Hazrat Ali?

Ali Maula Sher e Khuda AlayheSalaam RadiAllaahoAnho was named as ‘Madinah tul Ilm’. But let’s see what you say about the reference.

See, the reference you used is ‘Fitnah e Tahiriya ki Haqeeqat’ once again. I’d like to ask a simple question. If we want to judge AlaHazrat AlayheRehma’s beliefs and want to get faiz from his teachings, what would we consult? Either the books written by the authors of Tablighi Jamaat, Wahabis? Or the original scriptures of AlaHazrat AlayheRehma himself? Different specialties of different Sahaba are present in the history. If Hazrat Ibn e Abbas RadiAllaahoAnho was said to be the best narrator of Holy Qur’an, then it doesn’t mean that other Sahaba Karaam were degraded in this regard. Isn’t it? In the same way if our Beloved SallallaahoAlayheWasallima discussed Hazoor Ali Maula’s knowledge at so many places, then discussing it in an interview must not be a thing to be stretched in any negative angle? In one place Hazoor Ali Maula himself states that Hazoor Siddique e Akbar’s knowledge was more than ours. Here we can also take the meaning in a direction that he was so down to earth and so respectful towards his elders that he didn’t want to degrade them in any way, without taking this thing as a comparison just like the Wahabis do. Talking about Hazoor Ali Maula’s knowledge we shall have a look at some of the Ahadith Shareef.

5/25/09 Naveed Ahmad Keeping these Ahadeeth Shareef in mind, if one utters such words that he has no match in knowledge among Sahaba Karaam, then I find no gustaakhi in it. Don’t have a clue that from where you got it in your mind. And by the way look at the statement quoted in inverted comma’s in Urdu, and look at it’s translation. Once again you will notice some irresponsibility there. And once again I’d request that don’t bring comparisons in minds like Wahabis do. This was the thing started from Khawaarij. We all are Qadris, and Alhamdulillaah we are proud ones. If something great is known to us about our Akaabir then we should utter it. And the one uttering them shouldn’t be labeled as ‘Shia’.

5/25/09 Naveed Ahmad At the end of this page, I saw some statements before. They are not present now. But I have them from another website. Won’t reveal the name of the website or the organization because it’s going to be something about criticizing on someone. Let me paste the lines now.

Now this is where the fun really starts, lets see if you can score 12 out of 12. Unfortunately there are no prizes to be won for a 100% score. If the admirers of the Professor respond correctly to the above 12 questions and which correspond with our answers, then the Professor can never be a Sunni, by YOUR OWN ENDORSEMENT. But if they remain silent, duck, dive and dodge these questions like their Professor is presently doing, then you all are placing your Sunniyat in jeopardy. ~ The balls are now in their court.

Though the brother tried hard to consult dictionary for difficult words but yet he lacked one important thing, and that’s responsibility while doing something for the betterment of Deen. See the first line of the passage. See the word FUN. Do I need to say anything about it? This word tells the whole story behind all these allegations and propaganda. Here, I’d like to say that I exclude all the Ulema who are ranked very high among the Ummah. False things with fake references reach them, and they are convinced to make a wrong decision against a person. I’ll make this point very clear in future posts. Trust me brother, neither we nor the Professor, needs your certificate of Sunniyat. Don’t you worry about it. Thanks for considering our position and paying so much attention and getting concerned about us. By the way, I really don’t think that I need to make fun of the word ‘Balls’ here. Isn’t it? first | < previous | next > | last report spam reply « back to topics

5/25/09 Naveed Ahmad Then you gave a list. Let’s discuss a few names out of it and then I’ll give my list which will contain some personalities whom ‘Sunniyat’ you can’t even doubt about.

First name you gave is of Syyedi Taaj ush Shariyah Damat Barkaatahum Aali. I’ll not comment on him. All I want to say is that if you see the Fatwa he has given, is all based on misconception. The questions put forward to him were baked and made into a shape where a Mufti totally gets convinced to issue a fatwa of the person being discussed. You can check it yourself. All the references were given which don’t enjoy a good health. Statements were chaned before presenting. What can we do more to disgrace a personality? I once again say, I don’t say a single word about that exalted personality.

5/25/09 Naveed Ahmad Then there are a few more names, out of whom I’d like to mention a few with a few things related to them as well. Allama Syed Ahmed Saeed Kazmi I don’t have a clue that why did you enter his name in the list of Ulema who OPPOSE the Doctor? Ghazali-e-Zamaa, Allama Sayed Ahmed Saeed Kazmi RehmatullaahAlayh, though had differences on the Diyat issue, remained an admirer of Dr. Sahib till his death. The biggest proofs of this thing are his sons.http://www.minhaj.org/en.php?tid=3250And let me quote his statement about Doctor. In 1981, he declared: "This young man has been gifted with a great potential and I have great hopes attached with him. All of you become a witness and listen to my words carefully. Allah has placed such a Noor of Fuzat-e-Muhammadi SallallaahoAlayheWasallima in his breast which would keep on increasing with the passage of time and would benefit a whole world … May Allah enlighten the whole Islamic World and the world of Ahl-e-Sunnat with his Ilmi, Fikri and Ruhani Noor. Whatever I have said would happen Insha Allah."Though he had a difference on the topic of Diyat, but still he used to love Doctor as his most brilliant student, till his death.

5/25/09 Naveed Ahmad Allama Muhammad Yaqoob Khan Golarrvi.

One should ask him that whom is he bait with? If with the Sajjaada Nasheen of Golra Shareef Hazrat Marhoom Peer Naseer ud Din Naseer Golarrvi, the one who was on the gaddi of Hazoor Mehr Ali Shah Golarrvi Sahab, then he must look out what he is doing. Whom is he opposing and what a crime is he doing while going against his own Murshid (if he is a mureef of Hazoor Naseer Sahib Marhoom RehmatullaahAlayh)

5/25/09 Naveed Ahmad Mufti Ashraf Asif Jalali.

This is the name which caused this much delay in the posting of response. When I called him up, his secretary Mr. Muhammad Fayyaz picked up the phone and said “ki puchna jay?”. I said I want to know Mufti Asif Sahab’s point of view on the issue of Professor Tahir ul Qadri. He said “Mein puchna waan”. And then after asking him he said, “Tusi inj kero, Gujranwala dey hik Mufti Sahab ne kitaab likhi hai, Abu Dawood Sadik sahb di kitab Khatre ki Ghanti, oh parh lao”. I said but I wanted to know his point of view. He replied, “Aap kitab parh lain, jo kuch likha hai wohi inn k bhi khyalaat hain”. I asked that are you in his league? He said yes.

Now this was the ‘indirect’ conversation between and this Mufti Sahab. Now let’s examine his referred book and it’s author..

5/25/09 Naveed Ahmad Mufti Abu Dawood Muhammad Sadiq QadriNow here in the list, he comes again. The author of the same ‘book’, ‘khatre ki ghanti’. I have already shown you some of his knowledgeable facts. If you don’t trust me, one of you brothers who are close to him, should go to him and ask him that what happened to him when he went on the invitation of Hazoor Zinda Peer RehmatullaahAlayh of Ghamkol Shareef. There he said that Hazoor you have made a mistake to call this Doctor here for the lecture. He’s not even a Sunni. The reply which Hazoor Zinda Peer AlayheRehma gave should be asked from Mr. Abu Dawood Qadri Sahab himself. Please go ahead, it’s an open invitation. Then after that Hazoor Zinda Peer was asked that why did you do so? He replied that when I go in the Noori Bargah e Risaalat Ma’ab for the Haaziri, I find this man sitting there before me. And when I take permission to come back, this man remains there even after that. Then how can ‘I’ not grant him permission to give away the lecture here? And also his act of writing down the name of Minhaj ul Quran and the institute of Al Azhar University of Egypt as deviants in his ‘Book’. From where Hazoor Tajushariya got a Khitaab recently.

Mufti Muhammad Hussain Naeemi

I’ll be clearing this name in my list inshAllaah.

5/25/09 Naveed Ahmad Now I will discuss Fatwa issued by some of the Ulema from the above list against Doctor.

From the wording of the fatwa (طاہرالقادری نے جب یہ کہنا شروع کیا کہ) it seems that Dr Sahib said these things many times. But no where in the Fatwa even a single reference has been provided. Did Mufti Sahib forget to provide the reference?

There is one statement of Dr Sahib about فروعی اختلافات (i.e. minor differences) in his book "Firqa Parasti Ka Hatima Kunkar Mumkin Hai". This book was not written by Dr Sahib but is a compilation from his speeches. During the compilation the actual words can get changed. But even the words of that book does not say anything which Mufti Sahib has attributed to Dr Sahib. The book reads as:

In this paragraph Dr Sahib has enlisted around 14 things which are common among various schools of thought. After enlisting these he said that there is no basic difference (in these 14 things) and even if there is a difference it is only a minor one. E.g. there is no basic difference about the fasting in Ramadhan, though the exact timings of Sahr and Iftar may differ among the schools. So there are only فروعی اختلافات (i.e. minor differences) about these 14 things.So where exactly Dr Sahib has declared that (حضرت ابوبکروعمر رضی اللہ تعالی عنہما کو گالی دینا اور ام المومنین حضرت عائشہ صدیقہ طیبہ طاہرہ رضی اللہ تعالی عنہا پر تہمت لگانا فروعی بات ہے). Please do visit your beloved Mufti Sahib and ask him about a reference of this.

Where has Dr Sahib said that a Gustakh-e-Rasool can be a Muslim? He rather proved in the court that the Islamic punuishment of Gustakh-e-Rasool is death. So it is yet another allegation without providing any reference!

What is this? I guess it is about the event of اعلاميه وحدت (i.e. “Declaration of Unity”) which was signed between DrSahib's jamat and the jamat of Sajid Naqvi. It was a 12-points declaration one of which was that Khulafa-e-Rashedin are the sacred personalities of Islam and no one is allowed to speak bad about anyone of them. So it was a declaration totally in conformity with the Sunni beliefs. It was not a formal alliance as such. So what is bad about it?

Mufti Sahib has seen something objectionable about this collaboration (though it was not an alliance and it was meant to ensure the respect of Khulafa-e-Rashdin). What are Mufti Sahib's comments about Molana Noorani Sahib, who formally formed an alliance with Shias (including the same jamat of Sajid Naqavi) and with Deobandis and Wahabis and launched election campaign side by side with them?

I hope Mufti Sahib would somehow find a way to explain that Dr Tahir-ul-Qadri’s declaration (to protect Khulafa-e-Rashedin’s respect) is objectionable but Noorani Sahib’s free mixing with other schools is totally OK.

5/25/09 Naveed Ahmad Text of the Fatwa

لہذا یہ سنیت کو تباہ کرنے والا ہے اہل سنت سے اس کا کوئی تعلق نہیں

Analysis

Is Mufti Sahib a licence issuing authority (of Suniyat) and does Dr Sahib really require a "Certificate of Sunniyat" from him (or even from anyone else)?

Dr Tahir-ul-Qadri has received the “certificate” of Sunniyat from some towering personalities of Ahl-us-Sunnah. I'll quote from 3 of such personalities, who are regarded as much superior to this Mufti Sahib (you can verify this from any Sunni elder).

1. Certificate by Sheikh-ul-Islam Khawaja Qamr-ud-Din Sayalvi:

"Inshallah the day would come when this young man would be the greatest asset for Muslim World and Ahl-us-Sunnah. I won't be alive then, but most of you would see it shining on the skies of knowledge. Because of his knowledge, thoughts and struggle, the Aqaid of Ahl-us-Sunnah would get a support and the status of knowledge would increase. The Maslak of Ahl-e-Sunat is attached with this boy."

2. Certificate by Ghazali-e-Zaman Syed Ahmad Saeed Kazmi:

In 1981, he declared:

"All of you become a witness and listen to my words carefully. Allah has placed such a Noor of Fuzat-e-Muhammadi(صلی اللہ علیھ وآلھ وسلم) in his breast which would keep on increasing with the passage of time and would benefit a whole world … May Allah enlighten the whole Islamic World and the world of Ahl-e-Sunnat with his Ilmi, Fikri and Ruhani Noor. Whatever I have said would happen Insha Allah."

3. Certificate by Zia-ul-Umat Justice Pir Karam Shah Sahib Al-Azhari:

"In this era of afflictions, when I think about this man (i.e. Dr. Qadri), my heart fills with the feelings of thankfulness of Allah. It is His blessing that He has supported us through this Mard-e-Mujahid. … May Allah give him a long life!" first | < previous | next > | last report spam reply « back to topics

5/25/09 Naveed Ahmad 52. Mufti Gul Rahman Qadri (Mufti Muhammad Gul Rahman Qadri one of the leading muftis in the UK, who headed the organising committee for the course, shed light on the importance of the course. He said whether people understood the reasons for organising this course or not, for me, the fact that someone like Shaykh-ul-Islam will be teaching Sahih-ul-Bukhari, is enough of a reason to attend. He said whenever Shaykh-ul-Islam speaks we are flooded by diamonds, rubies and gems of knowledge that we never new existed.http://www.minhaj.org/en.php?tid=3190Mufit Gul Rehman Qadri (one of the leading mufti in the UK) recieving ijazaa from Shaikh-ul-Islam http://www.orkut.com/Main#AlbumZoom.aspx?uid=17443487340646732167&pid=1216835499728&aid=1$pid=1215910377955)

5/25/09 Naveed Ahmad 60. Shaykh Habib Umar bin Salim bin Hafeez a great Shaykh and spiritual leader from the land of Hadramaut (Yemen),descends from a family whose lineage goes back to the Prophet, salla Allahu 'alayhi wa sallam.Dar-ul-Mustafa Institute,Yemen:The eastern section of Tarim offers the Dar al Mustafa for traditional Islamic teaching in Arabic and its satellite campus for intensive Arabic linguistics study at the Badr Language Institute. Shaykh Habib Umar bin Hafiz manages the school and is a renowned Islamic spiritual leader. http://www.minhaj.org/en.php?tid=297461. Muhammad Hashim Al Badr Al- MadniSheikh-ul-Islam With Shiekh Muhammad Hashim Albadr Al- Madni (Person who has the keys of Holy Prohet(SAW)'s Shrine)http://www.orkut.com/Main#AlbumZoom.aspx?uid=17443487340646732167&pid=1215909763526&aid=1$pid=5http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nknNsNxnDRAhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TXe_lcoPhtkwatch videos please in which he says that Hazoor Muhammad e Mustafa SallallaahoAlayheWasallima has sent Salaam for you people and gave Mihaj ul Quran the most Sacred Mud of the Shrine of Rasool Allaah SallallaahoAlayheWasallima and the Ghilaaf Mubarak of the Sacred most Shrine. He also told that when I was invited, I refused because I never go out of Madinah, but the same night Rasool Allaah SallallaahoAlayhWasallima came in my dream and said, go Tahir ul Qadri has invited you.

5/25/09 Naveed Ahmad 62. Shiekh Abdullah Bin Bayah Vice President of the International Union of Muslim Scholars and Professor in king Abd-ul-Aziz University Jeddah. Belongs to Maliki School of Thoughthttp://www.orkut.com/Main#AlbumZoom.aspx?uid=17443487340646732167&pid=1215909763526&aid=1$pid=363. Khawja Sufi Khaksar http://minhaj.org/en.php?tid=323164. Sayyed Azmat Husayn Shah, Nazim A’ala of Jamia Qamar-ul-Islam, Karachi, Pakistan was a special guest at the course. In his brief talk he said that he had come to the UK for the Sunni Conference last week. Once he had heard about this course he said that he had decided that he could not miss it especially when someone like Shaykh-ul-Islam Prof. Dr. Muhammad Tahir-ul-Qadri was teaching it.http://www.minhaj.org/en.php?tid=319065. Allamah Abdul Latif Chowdhury (Fultali Saheb Qiblah) was born in 1913 (1321 Bangla) on Thursday in the village Fultali of Zakigonj, in the district of Sylhet, and is the son of a renowned scholar. His honourable father Mufti Maulana Abdul Majid Chowdhury (R) was a revered and famous Muslim cleric and jurist. He was a well known scholar and sage of the Indian sub-continent, whose fame is widespread throughout the country.http://minhaj.org/en.php?tid=2813 ; http://www.orkut.com/Main#AlbumZoom.aspx?uid=17443487340646732167&pid=1216835499728&aid=1$pid=1209618701507 ; http://www.fultali.com/photoalbum.htmlsee pic number-98...and 121....and 128 and....131....and 135....and 136.....139....and 140...141....142...144.....145

5/25/09 Naveed Ahmad As Shaikh Muhammad Al Yaqubi al-Hassani (Sirya) http://www.minhaj.org/en.php?tid=65 (As Shaykh Muhammad descends from a family whose lineage goes back to the Prophet, salla Allahu 'alayhi wa sallam, through his grandson Sayyiduna al-Hasan, radiya Allahu 'anhu. His ancestors also include some of the greatest scholars of Syria. His father, Shaykh Ibrahim al-Ya'qoubi (d. 1985/1406 H.), was one of the greatest scholars Syria saw in the past 50 years.See Shaykh Muhammad Sahab with Dr Tahir Ul Qadri Sahab and also he visited Minhaj Ul Quran.http://www.minhaj.org/en.php?tid=3038http://www.orkut.com/Main#AlbumZoom.aspx?uid=17443487340646732167&pid=10&aid=1$pid=10for more info,pls visit:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muhammad_al-Yaqoubi

5/25/09 Naveed Ahmad Allama Qari Muhammad Hanif, Gulzar-e-Madinah Mosque, Leicester92. Allama Qari Muhammad Ishaq, Jami Mosque, Bristol ; http://www.minhaj.org/en.php?tid=13993. Shaykh As’ad Muhammad Saeed as-Sagharji (Head Imam of al-Jame'al-Umayyad, Syria).Shaykh As’ad Muhammad Saeed as-Sagharji [visiting scholar] lives in Damascus. He is one of the greatest Faqihs (jurists) of Syria. He is author of the famous work "Al-Fiqh al-Hanafi wa Adillatuhu". Not only is he a great scholar of Hadith, but also a deeply spiritual personality. His works are included as part of syllabuses in Islamic colleges and universities all over the world including at the prestigious al-Azhar of Egypt. Shaykh as-Sagharji is the Head Imam of renowned Jami'ah Masjid 'Umawi (Ummayad Mosque), comprising 7 permanent imams who are among the religious authorities and scholars of Syria.Shaykh Asad Sahab with Dr Taher Ul Qadri Sahab.http://www.minhaj.org/en.php?tid=3192http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AbFQKSLLh5I. See what he says about Doctor’s book Al Minhaj us Sawi Min Ahadith il Nabwi SalallaahoAlayheWasallima. {http://www.orkut.com/Main#AlbumZoom.aspx?uid=17443487340646732167&pid=1216668570544&aid=1$pid=1216668570544 }

5/25/09 Naveed Ahmad 94. Shaykh as-Sayyid Yusuf Hashim Ar-Rifai (A leading Shafi scholar, author and former minister, Kuwait)Shaikh Yusuf Sayyid Hashim al-Rifa`i, born in Kuwait in 1351/1932. A Shafi`i scholar, former minister of state, educator, Sufi, and author of many Books, studied Islamic Law in Damascus and Shafi`i jurisprudence under Shaykh Muhammad Salih of Kuwait and others. Shaykh Yusuf is a descendent of the Prophet - Allah bless and greet him - through the Friend (walî) of Allah Most High, Shaykh Ahmad al-Rifa`i. He was made a member of Parliament in Kuwait in 1963, minister of telecommunications and postage in 1964, and he served as the minister of state from 1965 to 1970. He is also a Shaykh of the Rifa`i Tariqa founded by his ancestor, having been authorized by Shaykh Makki al-Kattani of Damascus, whose teacher Ibrahim al-Rawi was the student of Shaykh Abu al-Huda al-Sayyadi, one of the outstanding recent figures in the Rifa`i way. (http://www.orkut.com/Main#AlbumZoom.aspx?uid=17443487340646732167&pid=1216835514039&aid=1$pid=1209632136322)

5/25/09 Naveed Ahmad 97. Jamia Naeemiya (the biggest Sunni Madarsa in Lahore) support Dr Sahib and they officially presented their services to manage Minhaj-ul-Quran's programs. Their principal, the well-known Mufti Sarfraz Naeemi Sahib, he appreciates Dr Tahir-ul-Qadri's efforts and visited Minhaj-ul-Quran's headquarters a few months ago. And if often invited on every big Ijtimah and Islamic gathering.

98. Jamiya Nizamiya, another major Sunni madrasa of Ahl ul Sunnah.

99. Sheikh-ul-Hadith Molana Abdu-ut-Tawab Siddiqi, he greatly praised Dr Sahib and his translation of Quran in the opening ceremony.

have read just a few post of urs n will b reading the entire posts as time permits CAN U CLEAR ONE DOUBT ABOUT OFFERING NAMAZ BEHIND A WAHIBI, SHIA OR FOR THAT MATTER ANY DEVIANT SECT SHAYKHUL ISLAM'S VIEWS HERE AS THIS IS THE MOST CONTRADICTORY PART

5/25/09 Naveed Ahmad Now at the end, let me give some authentic certificates issued to this Doctor for his Sunniyat, by some really high ranked Sunni Mashaikh o Ulema.

Sheikh-ul-Islam Khawaja Qamr-ud-Din Sayalvi RehmatullaahAlayh:

In 1966, when Dr. Sahib was only 15 years old, Khawaja Sahib annmounced:

"I want to make you a witness that we are proud of this child. Inshallah the day would come when this boy would be the greatest asset for Muslim World and Ahl-us-Sunnah. I won't be alive then, but most of you would see it shining on the skies of knowledge. Because of his knowledge, thoughts and struggle, the Aqaid of Ahl-us-Sunnah would get a support and the status of knowledge would increase. The Maslak of Ahl-e-Sunat is attached with this boy.".

In 1981, Ghazali e Zaman Ahmad Saeed Shah Kazmi declared: .

"This young man has been gifted with a great potential and I have grat hopes attached with him. All of you become a witness and listen to my words carefully. Allah has placed such a Noor of Fuzat-e-Muhammadi SallallaahoAlayhWasallima in his breast which would keep on increasing with the passage of time and would benefit a whole world … May Allah enlighten the whole Islamic World and the world of Ahl-e-Sunnat with his Ilmi, Fikri and Ruhani Noor. Whatever I have said would happen Insha Allah."

5/25/09 Naveed Ahmad Though he had a difference on the topic of Diyat, but still he used to love Dr. Sahib till his death.http://www.orkut.com/Main#AlbumZoom.aspx?uid=17443487340646732167&pid=1216669234877&aid=1$pid=1216669234877http://www.orkut.com/Main#AlbumZoom.aspx?uid=17443487340646732167&pid=1216086818727&aid=1$pid=1216086818727 first | < previous | next > | last report spam reply « back to topics

He remained a great admirer of Dr. Sahib through out his life. In 1987 he said:

"In this era of afflictions, when I think about this man (i.e. Dr. Qadri), my heart fills with the feelings of thankfulness of Allah. It is His blessing that He has supported us through this Mard-e-Mujahid. … May Allah give him a long life!"

He is from the family of Hazoor Ghos-al-Azam RadiAllaahoAnho and under his order he came to Pakistan in 1950's. When he visited Braili Shareef, millions (including scholars) lifted his car on their shoulders. Throughout his stay in Braili, Mufti-e-Azam Hazrat Molana Mustafa Raza Khan (the son of Aala Hazrat AlayheRehma) remained bare footed out of his respect.

This personality, for whom the son of Aala Hazrat RehmatullaahAlayh was so resfectful, declared:Be it known to everyone, whosoever is causing loss to this Idara (i.e. Idara Minhaj-ul-Quran of Dr. Tahir-ul-Qadri), he should not think that he is in the chain of Qadriya, nor should he think that he is doing any service to Islam. Rather he is causing great loss to the religion of Islam. So all scholars, mashaikh, Sunni Hanafi brothers and especially the Muridin of Sayidina Ghos-al-Azam RadiAllaahoAnho should whole heartedly stick to Idara Minhaj-ul-Quran.

We all are Alhamdulillaah Proud Qadris, at least a Qadri should think for a 1000 times before opposing Dr. Sahib, in the light of the above saying.

5/25/09 Naveed Ahmad And when people say that he didn't know about the differences of opinion Doctor has with the other scholars, then they show the extreme of their stupidity because a Mureed never does anything without the permission from his Murshid and even after his visaal, Doctor takes permission before everything from Syyedina Tahir Alauddin Sahab RehmatullaahAlayh [:).

5/25/09 Naveed Ahmad {Mustafa ki hai kali, Tahir ul Qadri.. Tu Salaamat Rahay, Ta Qayaamat rahay…}Because Mustafa SallallaahoAlayheWasallima himself sends Salaam to him and his organization, see the speech of the Kep-keeper of the Holy Shrine once again. In the end, please see this video and see what his dream and wish is. Just imagine this deviant is trying to turn our hearts to the Gumbad e Khazra. What a crime he is doing, isn’t it?http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gQWrQbOL45o

5/25/09 "Muhammedun @Naveed BhaiNaveen Bhai awesome work

I don't have words to thank you and appreciate you for such a great work that you did.

You have defended Shaykh-Ul-Islam , you will get the reward for it from himself

Jazak Allahu Khairan Kaseera!

5/25/09 Rizwan @Naveed bhai

MashaAllah bhai its not just gr88 work brother but we have longed to see the facts

refuting the baseless allegations made against Dr. Sahab.

it is not the case of defending Dr Sahab [hope Muhammadun does not mind] but to

present the truthful facts n figures thereby defending not just dr sahab but the ENTIRE

AHLE SUNNAH for that matter.

HATS OFF TO U BROTHER

5/25/09 Naveed Ahmad I just want him in my dream and loot me away with all my bad deeds and turn it up into good ones. Ahh! Waiting for the day.. JazaakAllaah for the appriciation Bhai!

5/25/09 Obaid Khan it is not the case of defending Dr Sahab [hope Muhammadun does not mind] but to

present the truthful facts n figures thereby defending not just dr sahab but the ENTIRE

5/25/09 Obaid Khan @allMembers should note that Rizwan bhai is a die hard admirer of Imam Ahle Sunnat Ala Hazrat RA.He is a barelli and at the same time he loves Dr Sahab as well.

Similarly,those who love dr sahab not just love and respect Ala Hazrat RA because he is a Mujaddid,but also because Ala Hazrat RA is the grand teacher of Sheikh ul Islam.

5/25/09 Obaid Khan And Jazak Allah Khairun Naveed for such a beautiful and in-depth research.U did a marvellous job and u will definitely be rewarded by Allah SBT for presenting the truth in front of all. first | < previous | next > | last report spam reply « back to topics

This thread is meant for the refutations of allegations against Dr Sahab.All irrelevant posts will be deleted.

We know very well the views/opinions of others regarding Dr Sahab,so 'Hunter',u dont have to post the links in this thread.

Irrelevant posts deleted.

5/26/09 Obaid Khan Khadim-e-Sunniyat

Ur post has been deleted as well.And what is the use of answering the allegations in that biased community when the thread was hidden after Naveed answered those allegations in order to prevent the members from reading the answers.

Anyhow, this thread will be closed pretty soon as it may incite others to create discord among the sunnis.

5/26/09 Allways Done with MS Khadim-e-Sunniyat

Ur post has been deleted as well.And what is the use of answering the allegations in that biased community when the thread was hidden after Naveed answered those allegations in order to prevent the members from reading the answers.

On what basis did you say this brother? About mentioning the 73 sects, did He SallallaahoAlayheWasallima say that they will fight with each other OR they should fight each other? We take things wrongly and bring it up as a Fitnah. Ummat is really facing hard times, so it's the time to get united. Point of starting this thread is to show the truth that The 'Mujaddid' of this century needs whole hearted support of all Ulema. But some groups are causing harm to his mission which is not acceptable in the eyes of Allaah and His Rasool SallallaahoAlayheWasalima and we can see it's immideate results in our Pakistan and whole Muslim Ummah. May God lead us to thie right path under a right leadership in the Sadqah of His Beloved SallallaahoAlayheWasallima..

5/26/09 Obaid Khan @Always

That's not why the thread has been hidden... It is hidden so that no other Sunni brother or sister gets a misconception.

The reason given by the moderator of that comm for hiding that particular thread

5/26/09 Gulam -e- Rasool That's not why the thread has been hidden... It is hidden so that no other Sunni brother or sister gets a misconception.

The reason given by the moderator of that comm for hiding that particular thread

it makes me laugh

5/26/09 Naveed Ahmad Shouldn't I reply to the new posts made by Sybarite in that thread?

5/26/09 Obaid Khan And they are insisting that naveed answers to the new allegations in that biased community so that as soon as he answers the new allegations,they can hide the thread again.....really a bunch of loosers first | < previous | next > | last report spam reply « back to topics

People who have extreme love for Nabi Kareem(sallahualihe Wasalam), can only Understand Dr Sahab and his work

5/26/09 Naveed Ahmad And they are insisting that naveed answers to the new allegations in that biased community so that as soon as he answers the new allegations,they can hide the thread again.....really a bunch of loosers

Obaid Bhai.

They really are losers. Trust me. That crap which he calls 'Replies' are soon going to be shown here with their reality. I'm done with the first page and now need a bit of time to laugh at him .

I'll get them all done till evening and will post them here tonight. Till then go and see how he is making fun of our Deen and our Madhab. Sigh!

5/26/09 Naveed Ahmad JazaakAllaah u Khair Muhammad Bhai . Need your support to fight against this group of people who have been caught by the nasty hands of their Nafs.

5/27/09 Naveed Ahmad Doc’s evasive tactics are known to many. The most popular evasion from Cape Town . Jumped off the mosque wall and ranaway! Though I Mosque, South Africa have any materialistic proofs but there aredon’t several eye witnesses still alive, mostly in South Africa.

I mentioned in my response that don’t touch that issue of South Africa, Damn it . If your bloody mind doesn’t even get this single thing in your poor, aggressive, filled with anger and empty from valuable knowledge, then go to your beloved Ulema. And simply ask them what happened in South Africa?

Who were those guards who were sitting on his right and left? Who were those Ulema with ‘Daarhi Mubarak’ who were sitting in first rows in his lecture and what were their plan? If they don’t answer it, then go to South Africa and check their crime records. Trust me I don’t want to open my mouth on this issue. Just shut your bloody crap mouth up and don’t dare talking on this issue ever again. And by the way thanks to those who caused that thing. Thousands of people became fans of Dr Sahab in South Africa after that and the work which was supposed to be done after many years, was done in just a few days .

5/27/09 Naveed Ahmad The website has been updated, though you can still find a similar statement here:http://www.minhaj.info/di/index.php?mod=mags&month=2008-08&article=13&read=txt&lang=urYou can check the wikipedia entry for Minhaj-ul-Quran as well.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minhaj-ul-Quran Are you really that stupid or you are acting to be one? Or don’t have a sense of humor inside? If yes then let me explain. That line was written to show Toqeer’s poor sense of questioning in which he placed ‘Blah blah blah’ in place of the context of that page instead of putting only ‘Dots’ which is commonly in practice through out the world. But I think it’s quite tough for you to understand ha? Plain nonsense! You should’ve consulted someone for the clarification. Look at it closely, Doc first established a separated group/organization, named it Minjah-ul-Quran, people from this group call themselves minhajians and then he started yelling, I do not believe in sectarianism. Isnt that hypocrite to first introduce a new sect and then you cry a river over sectarianism. Doc himself introduced a new sect, that is Minhaj!Poor chap! Some of your Ulema call us ‘Firqa e Tahiriya’, some call us ‘Sulli Kulli’ and now you called our sect as ‘Minhajis’. Please leave us and let us remain the proud ‘Ahl-ul-Sunnah’. And as far as the question of consultation is concerned then let me assure you they are not as free as you guys who waste your time in writing whole books against Doctor rather than working for the cause of Ahl-ul-Sunnah. They are working for us and our coming generations. He established a platform for all sects to understand the teachings of Ahl-ul-Sunnah in detail which were called as ‘Stories’ in past. Got that ‘KIDO’?

5/27/09 Naveed Ahmad Cut this lame political crap. Arab and Ajam are not sects, they’re races and we aren’t talking about racism at all. Personal experience means nothing in such discussions so better avoid it in future. Its no wonder why our youth like Minhaj-ul-Quran, after all Doc said its ok to mingle with girls if its for educational purpose. Parda/Hijab isn’t a necessity for girl to Doc. Later you talked about your father. Again no wonder if a Deo-sympathizer likes Doc.

First of all I won’t allow a person like you to comment about my Father, who has no respect inside for elders. Secondly, where did you see me calling Arabs and Ajams as sects? Don’t talk out of your own anger and disguise. I know you are a bit confused but it’s ok! Get easy and then reply. I’m not in hurry and neither is anyone else out here. It’s the matter of our Imaan, baby!Mingling with girls is a nasty and a new extra-ordinarily stupid word used by extra-ordinarily stupid person once again. And about Parda/Hijab, that thing is totally rubbish and a fine piece of crap. Have an experience of going to Minhaj ul Quran International’s center anywhere and you’d find Sisters there in complete Hijab. Don’t associate moronic things with this league, trust me many Sufiya e Karaam and Awliya e Kamileen, even who have done parda from this world, love it from all their heart, including our Master SallallaahoAlayheWasalllima so better think before you open your ugly side of your mouth.

5/27/09 Naveed Ahmad I mean what actually you want to prove here? Whenever Doc appears on stage or on TV he never goes against mainstream sunni beliefs and yet welcomes all the deviants with all their diabolical beliefs. Is that your point here? Is that all what makes Doc and Minhajians “Proud Sunnis”?

You got the point but didn’t understand it. For more clarification, let me add the word of ‘Daring Sunnis’ as well .

I am not working to promote Hanafiyat or Maslak-e-Ahle’Sunnat-o-Jamat.

LoL! Poor chap, see that thread once again. This thing has already been shown to me by some other guy. And I have replied to it as well. Don’t show your old and corrupt references again and again. I have given you enough proofs to show that he is the biggest asset of Ahl-ul-Sunnah in present times and many of the high authorities like Professor Saeed as-Sagharji who are considered as authorities for Hannafi Madhab, are with him and kiss his hands. Better come up with solid proofs and some valuable knowledge. Don’t consider ‘anger’ as the alternate of ‘knowledge’, like you always do .

5/27/09 Naveed Ahmad I am sure as being a Doc’s admirer you’re really proud of this statement.

Why the heck would be I proud of your bloody corrupt proof? But yeah! I am proud to be his admirer .

The answer is NO! Just take deobandis for example;

1.Tauheed-o-Risalat

You don’t know their beliefs regarding Huzoor (Sallallahu Allaihe Wasallam) or you just ignored all those diabolical statements they made for Aaqa (Sallallahu Allaihe Wasallam) like the Doc does?

5/27/09 Naveed Ahmad 2. Huzoor ki Khatmiyat

Do I need to mention Tehzeer-un-Naas?

And most importantly, isn’t Tazeem-e-Rasool (Sallallahu Allaihe Wasallam) is fundamental to Doc? Go ask him if you’re not sure and if Tazeem-e-Rasool (Sallallahu Allaihe Wasallam) is fundamental then what about Wahabis/Deos?

However, in minor subsidiary matters this difference is only as far as minor details,

Man! You are not even eligible to attend this debate, you know that? Because you haven’t even read that whole thread. I have told you in that thread that he takes every matter case-to-case, it means he doesn’t consider everyone responsible for few person’s act. I didn’t know that you mind was that narrow to even adjust this little thing in your mind. Alas! first | < previous | next > | last report spam reply « back to topics

5/27/09 Naveed Ahmad Live peacefully? Where this comes from! Stop being political please! We are not at WAR with different schools of thought. Its simply to maintain your identity. Ahle’Sunnah cant tolerate being immerged into Gustakhan-e-Rasool (Sallallahu Allaihe Wasallam) just for the sake of happy peaceful living!

You’re presenting Surah Al-Imran verse 64 here, where Allah invited Jews and Christians to accept Allah's divine Oneness. And what Doc tried is to neutralize the difference between Ahle’Sunnah and the deviants.

Again the same bloody crap. Mixing with Gustakhan e Rasool and all that. Read my previous post for that once again, damn it .

Dare to exclude all those scholars who participated in different movements along with other schools of thought. Dare doing this, and then wait for a flood of Fatawa against you and those who support you, and trust me all those Fatawa will be with proofs and from Undeniable scholars. Mind it! I have given list of such Ulema o Mashaikh who worked with other schools of thought for different causes, just quoting one example. Hazrat Khawaja Qamar ud Din Sialvi RehmatullaahAlayh. And yeah peacefully, is this peace which we are carrying out here? Oh, what a joke you are trying to make ‘KIDDO’ .

5/27/09 Naveed Ahmad For Deed Shoneed, provide an authentic denial, if exists. I like your approach here but still not efficient enough. Belonging to one school of thought cant be declared as sectarianism but in that statement of Doc we only see a denial and no affirmation of belonging to any school of thought at all.

When I say that Doctor hasn’t said what Deed Shoneed has presented, then it’s authentic enough. And the biggest proof is this is that whenever the proof is demanded from those people that they say, “Attempts are being made to get those cassettes”. Ahh, this thing is now at least 30 years old and still the ‘attempts’ are being made. Very slow, I must say .

And don’t suggest a scholar what to say and what not to. You don’t even have a mere spiritual status and are making a failed attempt to guide a Wali. Poor you!

Oye hoye!! Chaa gaye jee tussi!

Haha! Thank you . You really don’t have a good sense of humor so don’t try to get funny. And if this wasn’t fun and rather a serious sarcasm, then I must suggest you not to make sarcastic statements anymore. Because you’ll fail badly. Trust me!

5/27/09 Naveed Ahmad Well sorry to say but that’s a typical wahabi/deobandi approach. If you find that magazine of such a low prestige than what kept Doc writing a denial to that magazine all these years? I mean you jumped in a discussion started on Orkut but so far none of the minhajians ever stepped forward to officially deny what that magazine published. Isnt that amazing ha? Anyways, if there is any such denial to the reference of Risala Deed-o-Shoneed, please post it here.

You love calling us like Deobandis, Wahhabis. Why? Ermm, because you don’t have anything to say in response. Is it? I am a member of Minhaj ul Quran International and I deny those statements, and at the same time make a request to make those ‘attempts’ faster please . Haha, you are sounding really funny to all of us here.

Preaching only one thing … and that is? Firqawariyat?? If that so, I don’t know in which part of the world you live in but boy I pity your life. I mean you spent your whole your life going to those mosques where Molvis and Zakirs preach only sectarianism!! So far I’ve never been to any such mosque Alhamdulillah! I saw Imams talking about Fazail and Seerat-un-Nabi (Sallallahu Allaihe Wasallam) and Sahaba, Huqooq-ul-Ibaad, Fiqhi Masail, Aqaid, Aamal, almost everything but never witnessed anyone preaching sectarianism.

I guess that is some of the mosques which are under the Imaamat of Ulema who are members of Minhaj ul Quran International . If you don’t find such mosques around you, then come to me I’ll show you Wahhabi illiterate molvis, and Shia illiterate Zakirs preaching their sects all the time .

5/27/09 Obaid Khan Moderator's Note

Naveed has not yet done with his replies,so please dont post until he is done with his answers.

The reason why he is not replying in that biased community is because they are hiding the thread after naveed answers those baseless allegations.

5/27/09 Naveed Ahmad The fatawas Ala Hazrat gave against those personalities ARE Haq (and not wrong) and ARE based on solid proofs and facts.

Don’t get emotional and don’t try to make this as a ‘Universal Truth’ issue. We all are great admirers of AlaHazrat AlayheRehma and Alhamdulillaah consider his research true.

Ala Hazrat did say “man shakka fi kufrihim wa 'azaabihim faqad kafar” (whosever doubts in their apostasy and their punishment, is an apostate).

Later you babbled a lot over irrelevant things and ended up with Doc’s dream, I’d say “another dream”.

Well if that dream has anything called truth in itself then Shehzadagan-e-Bareily would’ve never condemned Doc! They would’ve hugged him the way Ala Hazrat did as if Ala Hazrat blessed Doc with faiz then Ala Hazrat should’ve also let his grandchildren know about Doc’s status. So presenting a dream as evidence is totally useless, and a dream by Doc! Well that’s lame! Don’t let me talk about his dreams pls… phhllleeease!

Dare to give same wording for Pir Mehr Ali Shah RehmatullaahAlayh then I’ll reply to your post. And as far as the dream is concerned, then those who don’t get these opportunities always doubt these holy things. Same as Kuffaar did, and used to ask Rasool Allaah SallallaahoAlayheWAsallima to show Allaah Subhana Hoo’s body. So down you go when you try to debate against this Doctor. What can I do if they don’t see AlaHazrat still and don’t get Faiz from him? This is the matter of luck boy. One should build his spiritual status rather than opposing those who are already ranked high in the spiritual ranks than them.

5/27/09 Naveed Ahmad I demand the same from you and your Doc, even lets make it more simple. Just go and ask the Doc to official write the Ulema for this. Just simply write and official invitation to those Ulema and ask them to take oath in public. Remember! Its doc who is the defendant here.. so gotta make a move now. Ulema already asked him for justification a lot of times. They wont do it again and again. If your beloved Doc still interested in making himself clear, then make him do it.

He has limited time and for your little poor mind it wasn’t digestible that I told you that he is more interested in clearing the concepts of Ahl-ul-Sunnah and Islam to the whole world rather clearing his own position in front of these ‘FEW’ people.

You sure you have enough knowledge to talk over this issue? I mean really… do you?? For the reference, I’d say “google” and you’ll find it, just give it a try. Come back to me if you cant find it. I always keep cookies for kids

Haha, again the same bloody tempered video. I’ve shown it’s health in front of all my brothers and sisters. You are still crying over it. Poor chap, grow up now and buy some cookies for yourself till you grow up fully .

5/27/09 Naveed Ahmad Again a lame attempt. Well consider the following statement as my reply to Doc. Deliver it to him if you can.

He doesn’t need your suggestions poor kid, I’ve already told you. Don’t try to show your stupidity again and again. He is doing what he is sent for. Your kind of people used to ‘beg’ in front of Imam Malik RehmatullaahAlayh for the same thing and he used to say, “Thing will get clear when my funeral would be prayed”

Better cut this crap off and try to find something solid against him.

Kunway ka maindak, have you heard this before?

Haha, I though it would be rash if I use this thing against those people, but you yourself did it . Thanks! And one more, ‘Empty vessels make the most noise’.

5/27/09 Naveed Ahmad Either you’re just limited to Minhaji literature or just don’t wanna go anywhere else than minhaj. We have the gems among our local scholars. You talk about books defending our belief; I’d say Ala Hazrat’s books are far more than enough to defend our beliefs, let alone the rest of prestigious scholars of Ahle’Sunnah from subcontinent. You need to get out of that minhaji kunwa and see the world around you boy!

So the thing here is, Doc should’ve defended himself with all he got. Imagine what if he would’ve done that? Would we be having this debate right now if he successfully defended himself that time? I guess not!

Throughout the history, be it politics, showbiz etc, dispute is a strategy to gain fame and that’s what Doc did.

It’s sad and weird that I said ‘Local Ulema’ and you brought the great, Mujaddid e Deen o Millat in that category? Dude! You gotta grow now. Else you are going to face hard water on thousands of places in life. ‘Minhaj Kunwa’ irrigates many barren minds and is supported by many big ‘Chashmaas’ including the great AlaHazrat AlayheRehma. Better watch out your words bloody chap. About fame and disputes, he hasn’t ever asked these few people to write books or say speeches about him . And if you love to say this thing about him, then say the same thing about Imam e Azam Nauman Abu Hanifah RadiAllaahoAnho because in the whole history of Muslim Ummah, most opposition was done against that great Imam. Poor chap, think before you speak. Rather I’d say think before you open that ugly side of your tongue while talking about personalities.

After Jinnah's death in September 1948, his sister Fatima and then prime minister Liaquat Ali Khan had jointly filed a petition in the Karachi high court describing Jinnah as a ''Shia Khoja Mohammedan'' and sought that his will may be executed under the Shia inheritance law. Again, when Fatima died in 1967, another sister Shirin Bai claimed her property under the Shia law.

Go to hell with your suni sunaai baatein. Where are the proofs? Why is this that whenever you talk about proofs, you think of google? Cut the crap boy. Your own writing states this matter a confusing one till the formation of Pakistan and even his own sister filed a petition in the court for him being a Shi’ite. O my goodness. Don’t play around boy. Then another sister claiming his property under Shia law. And then way after that in 70’s it was proved that he was a Sunni. I’d like to say it again, ‘Paani wich madhaani paanday aqal jinhaan nu thori’.

And a Shi’ite praying behind a Sunni Alim is not a thing to be shocked at. You considered this as a proof. Shame on you.

5/27/09 Naveed Ahmad The original Khatm-e-Nabuwat movement was started in 1953 under the leadership of Allama Moulana Abul Hasnaat Qadri. Deobandis were more like black sheeps among them. Go read “Namoos-e-Mohammad ke Paasbaan” (Sallallahu Allaihe Wasallam). Ehtishaam-ul-Haq Thanvi called the members at his home and then got them arrested. And don’t forget to post all the authentic material you have in regard of your claim above.

What if I use your tactic here. I have given you the reference, go and find it yourself . Easy ha? I’ve clearly used the time of 73's, but your eyes are closed and your fingers are quite fast at typing stupidity. Go read it again.

Tehreek-e-Nizam-e-Mustafa (Sallallahu Allaihe Wasallam) was just a slogan to a political coalition Pakistan National Alliance in the 1977 elections. And most of those Ulemas did face criticism from Ulema-e-Ahle’Sunnat for their collaboration with deviants.

What is the point behind writing that first line? Same is the thing which I told you, nothing changed in it. But placing a word of ‘JUST’ is a bit unfair to the efforts made at that time.

About your second line, though they were criticized but because Tahir-ul-Qadiri wasn’t present in them, none was blamed to be a deviant . Sadqay wanjaan aap ki soch pe Ahmad Sahab. Sach jaantay huay bhi ankhon pe patti. first | < previous | next > | last report spam reply « back to topics

5/27/09 Naveed Ahmad You need to think twice before mocking anyone, let alone scholars. You talking about the level of thinking and research, one who don’t know thing about anything and yet declared a Sunni as Shia! I dare you to present your research against them to prove them wrong.

When kids play cricket in streets, the one who teases the most and deceives the most is called ‘Ronndlu’. Same word I’d like to use for you Mr. Ahmad. I didn’t declare him Shi’ite, he is my Quid, but at that time something else was in discussion. So don’t put everything everywhere just to satisfy your stupidity maintenance, because here people can hardly stand any sort of stupidity so beware.

By which Islamic rule remaining silent means they differs the verdict? Secondly what actually you wanna prove by silence over takfir? Being silence is not authentic in regard of takfir. There should either be an affirmation or negation. Silence cant be considered authentic because there are lots of possibilities for silence, like the Mufti may haven’t seen the verdict or anything like it. However silence over takfir is a not an issue with Doc. Doc actually disapproved with the verdict even preached to pray behind those deviants.

Rondlu Insaan! Can’t you get one thing when told once? He has not prayed Namaaz behind a Kafir ever! He has not said those Fatawa as baatil. He has shown silence. Possibilities I have told you earlier, that what are few of the reasons that he has shown silence over the Takfir matters of those Deobandi Craps. This word crap being used for them is only from my side because I follow Hassam ul Haramain in this regard, and yet consider this doctor a milestone in Ahl-ul-Sunnah world. A few of those reasons are as follows:-

If you want more, I can provide you many more. But I guess for closing your mouth, these are enough. At least, a bit of research is needed to declare a person like Doctor as a deviant Mr. Ahmad.

5/27/09 Naveed Ahmad Next you talked about the list I gave of the Ulema e Karaam who took a silent stance over the Takfeer matter. And you have shown your status of mind there and nothing else. You really are a jerk Ahmad. As all they stood brave against baatils and defended Ahl-ul-Sunnah aqaaid, same is this Doctor doing. What the heck do you want to show except your jerk ness and the immense example of a damn narrow mind? Those things don’t have to do anything with the stance of silence over the Takfeer matter of those Deobandi craps, Stupid!

Do you really want me to have a slap over your face by presenting you some undeniable proofs that Hazrat Ghazali e Zamaan was an admirer of this doctor till his death? Trust me I’d love to see you in that hard water and will see how you make those evasive tactics to save yourself. This July, I’m going to visit Darbaar-e-Ghausia and will InshAllaah meet the sons of Hazoor Ghazali-e-Zamaan if I can. Then will provide you those proofs which will stitch your bar**** mouth forever.

Please show us his research over this issue, let us know what stance he has for his silence over takfir of those deobandis.

A blind rondlu stupid jerk is asking for the same thing again and again. Read the above posts damn it!

5/27/09 Naveed Ahmad Why you always come up with such crap talk! If you believe that the books are not changed, and still the same as they were, why don’t you go to the scholars who quoted those statement which you don’t find in Minhaj’s web library editions. Did you ever bother to contact a single scholar who wrote against Doc? No you didn’t because you simply don’t want to find the truth.

Those whom I have consulted are quite trust worthy, just like the Managing Director of Minhaj-ul-Qur’an Welfare Trust (Australia), Mr. Sami Naushahi Qadiri . Let’s see how much you respect him now, your moronic twisted illogical rubbish won’t work in this discussion.

I am astonished at your level of idiotism! What if it’s a 100 pages book? It contains deviated statements. If one commits a kufr and then does a lot of good deed will it cover his kufr unless he repents for it? Common sense is getting so uncommon!

Idiot! Stupid! Duffer! I said that because it’s just a 100-paged book and is easy for every reader to read it in short time . I can’t believe that you could not even understand this thing and yeah when I remind that ‘Blah blah’ thing in my first answer, one can imagine how down you can go when it comes to understanding . Read the original book, not the edited one .

5/27/09 Naveed Ahmad Provide any evidence that he called Ulema-e-Ahle’Sunnah for justifying his stance over this issue and they didn’t respond accordingly. However we heard and there are lots of witnesses that he was called for a munazira in South Africa where he tried to avoid the munazira and started a speech and when people got angry he and his creed ran off by jumping off the wall of the mosque.

For evidence see that clip which is common all around when people talk about Diyat matter. Irfan Qadiri has got it, ask him for it . Its just an edited clip of few minutes and not the whole debate but you can see Ulema o Mashaikh on stage. South Africa issue is just not bearable. Leave that I suggest you.

Its not about what missing in him, its about in which category he falls in of mujtahids and what kind of Ijtihad he can do. I’d wait for your reply to write over this issue.

Well that’s a new question you have raised and definitely I’ll reply to it but need time to get it done with Mufti Sahab. InshAllaah by tomorrow will get it’s reply.

We are not talking about whether difference of opinion is permissible or not.

Don’t joke around bloody chap!

Surely if the Ummat has consensus over this issue that women’s diyat is half as to men’s and still Dr. says that its equal to men’s then whats so disrespecting about it if we employ Dr’s ideology to his own wife?

Shut your bloody ugly mouth up. Thanks for using this statement by your own fingers because I couldn’t use these harsh words for that Mufti Sahab.

5/27/09 Naveed Ahmad About the health of references, the whole of Minhajians cant prove it weak let alone an individual like you. You cant just deny the references by sayings “its just a magazine” that’s doesn’t deny the authenticity by any means.

The ‘attempts’ still being made are themselves a big proof of such an idiotic effort my brother .

As I earlier said, if the magazine is considered to be of such a low prestige than what kept Doc writing a denial to that magazine all these years?

He has been given the duty of doing much higher work than this foolish answering thingy about his own image. We his admirers are enough to test you guys’ stupidity levels. And trust me, no one of us would get even a click of doubt in his mind after reading all those corrupt lines you guys associate with him.

Stop this bloody Minhajians, Firqah e Professoria thingy and work for Ahl-ul-Sunnah if you can. Or if you can’t, then better sit silently at your computer and watch cartoons.

5/27/09 Naveed Ahmad I dare you to prove that its his statement. The header on that page loudly says “Ghair’muqallideen ki tarjumaan Al’Islam ki Shahaadat” which you totally ignored out of your fiery frustration and thought that’s its Moulana Abu Dawood Sadiq’s word.

Read this post here in this thread. I have made it more clear for your little poor mind. Hope you’d be able to understand now. And if not, then can’t help you lil chap!

What made him literally SHUTUP when someone lowlife magazine was ruining his image? Hard one… isn’t it?

I’m interested to see your comment on the statement of Hazrat Imaam Maalik RehmatullaahAlayh that “Things will get clear when my funeral would be prayed”. Really waiting for a statement by your ugly bloody black tongue.

5/27/09 Naveed Ahmad You cant simply deny a published magazine by making such lame unauthentic personal comments. You are not a man whose word can be taken as evidence in such a case by any means. So next time when you try to deny something like this, try to come up with something more authentic.

I really can you stupid. You don’t even know how to discuss on some issue? If not then let me tell you. You are the one who is claiming, and I’m defending. If you say that ‘Attempts are being made’ , then I should wait for the success of those attempts you fool.

Tampered? I mean why you always say things without any evidence!

I can’t help you if you are that blind that you can’t even see a person saying something and then his talk is cut. Not even his whole reply was there. He is a classical scholar of present times and was even at that time. And he its his own will that he signs some papers or not. Aqaa’id are not based on piece of paper, but the inner soul you bloody foolish stupid chap! first | < previous | next > | last report spam reply « back to topics

5/27/09 Naveed Ahmad Doc aint an ordinary Muslim (atleast for you guys), he is a scholar and was a scholar that time. He didn’t even bother to ask the other scholar about Professor Idrees. But still that other scholar told him that this guys is “Maslakan Deobandi”.

I think you ears got deaf when he used the word ‘Husn e Zann’. No wonder, most of you become deaf when listening to him.

Similarly if I ask you that whether you’ll judge Thanvi’s belief by writing in Hifz-ul-Iman or by lots of other books written by him?

You poor deviant, you are yourself deviating from your statemtnt that “I agree on this. References cant be taken against a person from a book which is already written in refutal of that very person. That was simply inadequate”. What the bloody heck are you trying to do?

5/27/09 Naveed Ahmad Attending Shia’s Majlis-e-Aza, enjoying the company of Deobandis, celebrating Christmas with Christians etc.He does it only to raise the name of our Beloved SallallaahoAlayhewasallima and to defend the honor of our beloved Sahaba e Karaam. For instense, let me share an example here:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vVEQjpWoEZsSee it you loser. If you yourself can’t do anything, then at least let other responsible one to do so! Wrong, its always being ambiguous till now, particularly about Deobandis/Shias.You really need to look at the history as well. Check out whom debate made the decision that its death penalty for the Gustakh e Rasool. If you fail, tell me I’ll provide you the stuff.

5/27/09 Naveed Ahmad We don’t want to learn his views. We just need a satisfactory elaboration of the allegations raised against him and so far we havnt found any.

It’s of no wonder that you become blind also when you are talking about Doctor.

Doc used such a simile for Khomieni for his political stands but did Doc ever used proper simile for his beliefs? Did Doc ever called his beliefs to be like deviants? I guess not!

No because he has strong Ahl-ul-Sunnah beliefs and you dare not to call Ahl-ul-Sunnah as deviants .

Read the underlined text. Firstly he addresses a hardcore lanti as an Imam then declared him among the Mardaan-e-Haq of Islamic history.

Read the Fatawa of Imam Sharaani and many other regarding Imam Ibn e Tehmiyah. Who gave fatwa of Kufr on him and used the word of Sheikh ul Islam with his name as well. I can’t help you loser extremist on these kind of issues.

In a nutshell, that tashbih thing wont justify the crap Doc uttered.

Don’t show me your ‘Chawal’ nutshells. They surely justify that statement which he uttered you loser!

5/29/09 Gulam -e- Rasool 4 naveedbrother do join htat community n clear all doubts if u think they r wrongbahot confusion ho raha haihttp://www.orkut.co.in/Main#Community.aspx?cmm=2039848 Some replies on this page have been deleted or are under review. first | < previous | next > | last report spam reply « back to topics

Api I don't have any Ghuroor inside and nor I have any Nafrat for those who don't abuse those whom I and many Awliya admire. You yourself tell me would you ever spare the one who abuses Hazoor Tajashariyah? I really don't think so. So same is the case here. Though the stance told to me by Hazoor Sheikh-ul-Islam is that "Whosoever abuses me in front of you, ask him to abuse me twice more, and then again if he does so, then keep on requesting him to carry on the work". But that's his vision and wide heart. But I admire him a lot and thanks to you Brothers and Sisters who gave me the opportunity to do the research on this giant scholar.

Regarding Mr. Ahmad, when he abuses a scholar of this high eminence that even the Son of the great Sufi, Ghulam Fareed RehmatullaahAlayh, Hazrat Peer Moin-ud-Deen Koreja and many Sufi Scholars like his eminence Professor Muhammad Saeed as-Sagharji kiss his hands, does he really take care of his name? 'Tahir'? Does he really think of his repute in the whole Ahl-ul-Sunnah world? Really not. Even the so called scholars call him Tahir-ul-Padri and many names like that. What would you say on them? Api thinkin having only one view point does not clear the matter fully. One has to think from both sides. And Mr. Ahmad has just shown aggression till now, nothing positive towards knowledge, I'm really sorry to say.

I still say, I really respect you and most of the members of the community. But some have shown really a bad side of them just like Madina Munawwara Ma'am. I respect the great Adeel Bhai really from the bottom of my heart. You, Anonymous Sister and a few more whom I know. Please forgive me if I have hurt you.

5/29/09 Naveed Ahmad Will continue the discussion in the same thread where it was started.

5/30/09 "Muhammedun Naveen bhai lets continue here......letz see how much of poision people have against Sheik-ul-Islam

5/30/09 Naveed Ahmad Bhai I'm posting the link here. You all can watch it out there. And since I have joined back (i.e. a few hours back), one post of mine has already been deleted .

Yea u r correct ,i must say.But I witnessed that u dint uttered a word when the name/word Qadri was mocked at.You guys replace Qadri with the word Padri and yet dont even think that u r infact mocking at the Silsila-e-Qadria.Good Work Muslims.And they consider themsleves to be of Maslak-e-Ala Hazrat RA.

5/30/09 Obaid Khan Cont.This was a reply to Qadim-e-Sunniat:Khadim-e-SunniyatUr post has been deleted as well.And what is the use of answering the allegations in that biased community when the thread was hidden after Naveed answered those allegations in order to prevent the members from reading the answers.Anyhow, this thread will be closed pretty soon as it may incite others to create discord among the sunnis.And this was copied from your community,O I m sorry,the biased community,i must say that .It was posted by one of the moderator of that community.:That's not why the thread has been hidden... It is hidden so that no other Sunni brother or sister gets a misconceptionAnd after reading the above post of mine,Ghulam-e-Rasool (Sallalahu Alaihi wa Sallam) said:it makes me laughI hope its clear now.If its not,then u r not suppose to use orkut.

5/30/09 Obaid Khan Cont.Well i am so surprised Why our keeping of thread in SPAM made u grin...Even posts from here are being deleted and as Mr. Done with MS declaring soon this thread will also be deleted...U think what u doing is for good reason...and what ever other do is illogical....

Keeping a thread in spam folder after naveed answered them pissed us off Madam.This particular act of the community administration shows/proves how biased the administration of that community really is.And where did I told that the thread will be deleted.I said that the thread will be closed.Go check the dictionary and u will find the difference between ''deleted'' & ''closed''.

And yes,the spamming of the thread in the midst of a debate when naveed answered the allegations is nothing but illogical/weird/absurd and doesn't make sense at all.

I feel shame for the aqeeda that make us so baised,proud and blind that we love making fun of others...

I think the members can decide who is biased and who is hiding the answers from the general public.I feel shame for the aqeeda that make u so biased and partial and yet u claim to be following Maslak-e-Ala Hazrat RA.

5/30/09 Obaid Khan Cont.Well many justifications regarding WHY KEPT IN SPAM? has already been given...and many things already said with very neat and clean Khuwahish to actually guide naveed...

Justification,lol.Neat and clean Khuwahish to actually guide naveed.I guess naveed is guiding u guys there.So correct ur self Madam.And he has done a remarkable job,as is evident from the posts of Sybarite who has resorted to the age old tactings of abusing and making personal comments.Job well done Naveed.

Any person with slightest of sense will laugh at the lame justification given by U guys for hiding that thread.

Jazak Allah Khairun brother.

5/30/09 Obaid Khan Naveed

Bhai I'm posting the link here. You all can watch it out there. And since I have joined back (i.e. a few hours back), one post of mine has already been deleted

Lol.Thats why I insisted u to post here in this community.Now pretty soon,I guess, u will be banned as well . Some replies on this page have been deleted or are under review. first | < previous | next > | last report spam reply « back to topics

5/30/09 Obaid Khan Rahi baat uss community mein anay ki tu aisi community per tu thookna bhi gawara nahi karta jaha members ba'qaida thread bana kar community members ki counting karnay masroof hun! Keep up the "good work" but expect me to show up on such a place.I can understand your frustrtation level.As far as counting members is concerned,then I m sure the members of Ala Hazrat Community would have been around 30k by now ,provided the extremists like u are kicked out of that community.

5/30/09 Obaid Khan And still they claim to be from Maslak-e-Ala Hazrat RA

5/30/09 Naveed Ahmad We are on Haq and we know that. So that's why I'm trying to sum it up in a bit logical way. Hope it clears their minds and shows them the way?

All my brothers here:

I hope that you will not be angry if I make this attempt. As this wasn't a cricket match so there wasn't anythink like gain or loss. So I have tried to show them a final source of light which is Tasawwuf. Hope they open their eyes now. What you brothers say?

5/31/09 "Muhammedun Well naveed bro these people have been putting baseless allegations on Shaykh ul Islam since past 20 years.....

When people from minhaj ul quran asked Shaykh ul Islam R.A to give asnwers to their stupid question .....Shaykh ul Islam said "I have to do a lot of work for Ahlus Sunnah, I have the responsibility of deen on my shoulders, I want to serve the deen brought by our Beloved Prophet Sallahu Alaihi Wasallam, If I start giving answers to their question then my life will be spent answering their question...but I want to please Beloved Prophet Sallahu Alaihi Wasallam by serving his deen"

We love Shaykh-ul-Islam for his purity and his strong will to fill our hearts with love of Allah and his Beloved (S.A.W.S), we can defend him as long as we can but we should remember one thing that Allah S.W.T himself raises the respect and loved of his awliyea in the hearts of momins......thats the reason even after lots of false efforts to defame Shaykh ul Islam, his respect and love is rising every day round the globe

May Allah give him a long life and keep his shadow on us...Ameen

5/31/09 Shazia wts going on,y fights.

5/31/09 Naveed Ahmad Fight for Haqq will be there till the last hour. I have made certain arrangements which can make positive move towards the Unity of Ahl-ul-Sunnah Wal Jama`ah. InshAllaah I'll be waiting for their reply now .

6/5/09 Naveed Ahmad I have contacted Hazrat Maulana Haji Imdad-Ullah Qadiri Naeemi Sahib (The former President of Department of Education at Jameya Naeemiya and Current Head of Minhaj-ul-Quran Ulema Council Punjab) today and we both with another senior member of Minhaj-ul-Quran decided that we will prepair a proper invitation for inviting Hazoor Tajashariyah here to Lahore, at Minhaj-ul-Quran's centre on behalf of the leading Ulema from the Ulema Council and most probably Dr. Raheeq Ahmad Abbasi Qadri would also be included in the list. It will be a humble request rather.

Today when I was driving through to the Jameya Naeemia's branch in Kaahna, where he is the Khateeb and Imaam of that Dar-ul-Uloom, it was the time of Zohar and trust me brothers and sisters even that immense amount of heat wasn't hurting me because I was going there for the very first and initial step towards the work which every sincere Sunni has been looking for since very long. I'm sure that we will come back with all our force and will strike the Najdi Forces with our combined researches. And that will be the time when people will feel AlaHazrat's presence again because it was due to his strict Fatwas and deep research which saved the sounds of

6/10/09 Naveed Ahmad Not really, but what you want to ask brother? I'm directly in contact with a very senior member of Jameya Naeemia i.e. Hazrat Maulana Haji Imdad-u-Allaah Qadiri Naeemi (Former president of Department of Education at Jameya Naeemia). first | < previous | next > | last report spam reply « back to topics

Ahh feeling so good, and you know what Madina Munawwara Api? I can feel more of AlaHazrat's Faiz over here than there. Don't know why:S. So yea, finally I got deleted my fellows .

You just love AlaHazrat, we love him and also learn from him. That's the major difference between you and us. Make an attempt of going to any of the MQI centre and see your sisters and brothers working there in Research Centres for the Deen. I was really shocked and felt so great that our youth is so worried about their age-fellows when I visited the Fareed-e-Millat Research Centre here at Lahore.

But your problem is the blind Aqeedat. With due respect, tell me of one single Ilmi Khidmat of Hazoor Tajashariyah except his Fatawa. Just one? And on the other hand I'd just like to tell one example of Hazoor Sheikh-ul-Islam's work. After Musnad Imam Ahmad bin Humbal, Irfan-us-Sunnah is the only Zakhira of about 40,000 Ahadith which would be available for us i.e. Ahl-ul-Sunnah very soon. This is just one example.

I have heard that some people consider me to be against Sheikh ul Islam Dr Tahir ul Qadri (Rahimuhullah). I just want to clarify that Dr Sahab is Sheikh ul Islam and one of the leading authorities of Islam in my sight. I have high respect for him and he is Alhamdulillah a Luminary who has brought thousands of people out of darkness.

About Hazrat's Ilmi Khidmaat you referred his Fatawa as they are nothing. The whole world, including Deobandi/Wahabiya accepts that Fatawa-e-Razawiya is a masterpiece among the rest of Ala Hazrat's work. I mean even Deobandiya/Wahabiya knows the magnificence of Fatawa!

What's your problem? I mean why do you want to fight every now and then? Did I say anything like 'its nothing'? For God's sake, don't prove yourself to be a empty-minded extremist again and again.

Do we need a compilation of Hadith more than Fatawa in this era where Muslims dont even know the masail of Wudhu and Ghusl? Do you really think that compilation of Hadith helps the Muslims masses more than Fatawa? Hazrat's visit to Syria alone describes his status!

Rahay na kunwain k maindak? Go and ask Ulema that how much they need of this compilation and how much they are waiting for this. And by the way even those who oppose him, speak on Jummah after listening to his CD's . Even they copy his astonishing style of speech while doing so.

Besides Azharul Fatawa and Safeena-e-Bakhshish Hazrat wrote;

Phir tum humein Kunwain k Maindak kehtay ho, aur sharmaatay bhi nahi. Laanat hai tum pe. You have given a list of total 27 boos. Man if I start counting the books written by his eminence Hazoor Sheikh-ul-Islam then you'll find youself in hard water of that kunwa, mind it! Over 1400 books have been written and are gradually coming out in market. Round about 350-400 books are available in market. Which include masterpieces like:

6/11/09 Naveed Ahmad ¬ Kitaab-ut-Tauheed (Book written in response of the Magazine by Abd al-Wahhab Al-Najdi "Kitaab-ut-Tauheed which clearly removes every misconception in the belief of Tauheed supported with strong and undeniable references which is on two zakheem editions)

¬ Irfan-ul-Quran (After Kanz-ul-Iman there was a gap in a translation which could remove all sorts of misconceptions regarding the beliefs of Ahl-ul-Sunnah because normal readers like you and me are not that much capable of understanding the high level of the wording used in Kanz-ul-Iman)

¬ Al Irfan-us-Sunnah (I have already told you it's great great importance and its coming after a huge gap after Musnad of Imam Ahmad Bin Humbal, a great asset for Pakistani Muslims)

¬ Al Minhaj-ul-Sawih (Another collection of around 1100 Ahadith which is a handy book and is sufficient for the daily lectures delivered by Ulema. Ulema carry it with them all the time, I myself have seen it.)

Hundreds of more masterpieces are available for everyone. Even for you "Kunwain k Maindak" .

6/11/09 Minaraye Noor @ naveedIhave contacted Hazrat Maulana Haji Imdad-Ullah Qadiri Naeemi Sahib (The former President of Department of Education at Jameya Naeemiya and Current Head of Minhaj-ul-Quran Ulema Council Punjab) today and we both with another senior member of Minhaj-ul-Quran decided that we will prepair a proper invitation for inviting Hazoor Tajashariyah here to Lahore, at Minhaj-ul-Quran's centre on behalf of the leading Ulema from the Ulema Council and most probably Dr. Raheeq Ahmad Abbasi Qadri would also be included in the list. It will be a humble request rather.

Need some more details on it.

6/11/09 Naveed Ahmad As many of my friends are his mureeds and many of the so called Ulema consider him the soul authority in Islam (though he is not an ordinary authority), so I thought its better to convince him rather than having fiery debates here.

I have got his contact number and most probably we will wait for Mr. Raheeq Ahmad Abbasi Qadiri to come back to Lahore for sending him the invitation. I hope he will not refuse an official invitation from senior officials of MQI. Most probably in Ramadan we will hold this meeting because that's the only event when Dr. Sahib spares time for meetings. first | < previous | next > | last report spam reply « back to topics

6/11/09 Naveed Ahmad ¬ Kitaab-ut-Tauheed (Book written in response of the Magazine by Abd al-Wahhab Al-Najdi "Kitaab-ut-Tauheed which clearly removes every misconception in the belief of Tauheed supported with strong and undeniable references which is on *two zakheem editions)

*two zakheem volumes.

6/11/09 Obaid Khan NaveedMashaAllah brother.You did a great job once again.Last night they banned you and then today they unbanned you.And still they claim that ''We'' dont have answers.

How could one have a discussion in an environment where the moderators are constantly threatens you with a ban!!!But still you have done a remarkable job.

But I am sure that you will be banned pretty soon,because thats what they can do when they run out of answers.

And coming back to mocking and abusing of scholars,well the members of that community has started objecting and rightly said that Imam Ahle Sunnat Ala Hazrat RA would have never approved/liked all these mocking and abusing.

Those fanatics are just defaming the name of the great Mujaddid.

6/11/09 Obaid Khan Do we need a compilation of Hadith more than Fatawa in this era where Muslims dont even know the masail of Wudhu and Ghusl? Do you really think that compilation of Hadith helps the Muslims masses more than Fatawa? Hazrat's visit to Syria alone describes his status!

ROFL...>What a lame justification.When wahabis/deobandis confront sunnis with their fatwa of shirk/biddat,then are we suppose to deal with them with the Fatwas ?

6/11/09 Naveed Ahmad ROFL...>What a lame justification.When wahabis/deobandis confront sunnis with their fatwa of shirk/biddat,then are we suppose to deal with them with the Fatwas?

Best slap one can ever give on a moron's face.

6/12/09 Minaraye Noor @ NaveedWhenever he talks about that South African incident I get blood boiled. The moment I remind Hazoor Sheikh-ul-Islam's sayings on it, I just stop my fingers from writing down the reality. I wish he allow me to expose all those craps who were involved in such... Duh!

i also wanna know about it. i don't believe that Person like Dr. Sahab can run like this.plz give me the link of Dr Sahab's speech about it.thanks.

6/12/09 Naveed Ahmad All these buffoons would have died till today if he would make a public speech in this regard my brother . Even we, the members of Minhaj-ul-Quran International are not allowed to expose it off because directly or indirectly it hurts a Sunni cause. Even the main charecter of that whole event Mr. Tony Adams (a reverted Muslim now Alhamdulillaah), when said that I want to call a press briefing, Hazoor Sheikh-ul-Islam didn't allow it. For a bit of hint, this is the same charecter which is presented as "Padri apnay ek sathi k kandhay per charh ker deewar phalaang geya!" . I know the whole incident and I also know which bloody people were involved but I'll not reveal it openly here. I'll talk to you sometime privately on messenger. But right now, I'm working on that 'Padri' word being associated with Dr. Sahib, InshAllaah by tonight I'm going to post some really major things here. Keep your fingers crossed brothers .

6/12/09 Mohsin (Away) I dont have that words for this great personality, Shaykh-ul-Islam is doing great work for Islam, and he is completely following Sunnah of Holy Prophet صلی اللہ علیھ وآلھ وسلم. Unfortunately some people have totally gone mad blind behind some ridiculous fatwas and i cant even imagine that one can get so much blind after these fatwas that to them even Sirat and Sunnah of Prophet صلی اللہ علیھ وآلھ وسلم has no value in front of their fatwas. this is what we call Molvi Parasti. May Allah save us all from this fitna. .We should always try to accept whatever that is according to Quran and Sunnah and reject whatever that is against Quran and Sunnah. Mager jin kay dil or demag fatwon kay again band hojain unhin na Quran nazer ata hai na Hadith..Shaykh-ul-Islam is doing his job With hikmah which is the Sunnah and Order of Quran:.. ادْعُ إِلَى سَبِيلِ رَبِّكَ بِالْحِكْمَةِ وَالْمَوْعِظَةِ الْحَسَنَةِ وَجَادِلْهُم بِالَّتِي هِيَ أَحْسَنُ إِنَّ رَبَّكَ هُوَ أَعْلَمُ بِمَن ضَلَّ عَن سَبِيلِهِ وَهُوَ أَعْلَمُ بِالْمُهْتَدِينَ.اے رسولِ معظّم!) آپ اپنے رب کی راہ کی طرف حکمت اور عمدہ نصیحت کے ساتھ بلائیے اور ان سے بحث (بھی) ایسے انداز سے کیجئے جو نہایت حسین ہو، بیشک آپ کا رب اس شخص کو (بھی) خوب جانتا ہے جو اس کی راہ سے بھٹک گیا اور وہ ہدایت یافتہ لوگوں کو (بھی) خوب جانتا ہے.(O Glorious Messenger!) Invite towards the path of your Lord with strategic wisdom and refined exhortation and (also) argue with them in a most decent manner. Surely your Lord knows him well who strayed away from His path and He also knows well the rightly guided.[16:125].Afsos Jo shaks aj isi hikmat kay tehad non-muslims or different sects kay logon ko Haq or Hidayat ki terf la raha hai aaj usi per hum fatway bazi ker rahay hain.... afsos!.I do not have more words, even this is not enough:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g54WSnwGXAs

6/12/09 Naveed Ahmad Padri Kaun aur Kyun?

These days, we have narrowed our minds and have limited the knowledge. One who has the knowledge, the people around him bound him to put veils on it and simply go against the very own traditions.

These days similar kind of case is in front of our eyes. A while ago, Dr. Muhammad Tahir-ul-Qadri allowed the Christians brothers to come to the Minhaj-ul-Quran mosque whenever they wish to and even offer their prayers if they want. Some illiterate people who just have a bit of Islamic knowledge started calling him as ‘Padri’ (Pope) and ignored the whole history of the most perfect creation of this universe, the ‘Rehmatal-lil-Alameen’ and our own Prophet (صلی اللہ علیھ وآلھ وسلم). Today people have lost everything and even the Knowledge.

Today I’m here to reveal this word ‘Padri’ and also to ask a simple question from those who use this word very openly and happily. Let’s go back to the time of our Prophet (صلی اللہ علیھ وآلھ وسلم).

6/12/09 Naveed Ahmad First Proof:

Whenever any foreigner Non-Muslim delegations came in the Barigah-e-Noori صلی اللہ علیھ وآلھ وسلم, He صلی اللہ علیھ وآلھ وسلم Himself used to take care of every thing. Thus, when a Christian delegation from Ethiopia came to Madinah in his barigah He صلی اللہ علیھ وآلھ وسلم made them to stay inside Masjid-e-Nabwi صلی اللہ علیھ وآلھ وسلم and himself took the responsibility of their hospitality and said:

“These people are special and prestigious for our companions, that’s why I liked to take care of their respect and honor and hospitality by myself”.

Today when somebody tries to show the right image of Islam to the whole world following the true soul of Islam and the holy teachings of Muhammad-e-Mustafa صلی اللہ علیھ وآلھ وسلم then people tag him with words like ‘Padri’. I’d really like to ask those Muftis and all those people including many stupid ones as well that what would they say now? I’m really waiting for the reply.

6/12/09 Naveed Ahmad Second Proof:

Once a delegation of 14 Christians came from Nijran to Madinah, Prophet صلی اللہ علیھ وآلھ وسلم made them to stay inside Masjid-e-Nabwi صلی اللہ علیھ وآلھ وسلم and allowed them to offer their prayer according to their own way in Masjid-e-Nabwi صلی اللہ علیھ وآلھ وسلم.

Does any Jameya, Masjid, Madrassa or any institute carry a higher dignity or standard than Masjid-e-Nabwi صلی اللہ علیھ وآلھ وسلم? NO, then who gave the right to any Mufti to call a person a ‘Pope’ who allows Christians to come to a Masjid which is under his Imamat or Leadership? And then people start calling him as ‘Padri’ as well on the basis of stupidity and ignorance. All they are denying this Hadith Paak and this holy act of the Prophet صلی اللہ علیھ وآلھ وسلم. I can only ask those brothers and sisters to act Islamically and just think once that what a tough time Muslims are suffering from. May Allaah SubhanaHoo help us and guide us to the right path through the sadqah of His Beloved صلی اللہ علیھ وآلھ وسلم.

What calling a Muslim a 'Padri' (Kafir) brings to us?

It is reported on the authority of Ibn `Umar that the Prophet صلی اللہ علیھ وآلھ وسلم said: Any person who calls his brother: O Unbeliever (Kafir)! (then the truth of this label) would return to one of them. If it is true, (then it is) as he asserted, (but if it is not true), then it returns to him (and thus the person who made the accusation is an Unbeliever). [Muslim] first | < previous | next > | last report spam reply « back to topics

6/12/09 Naveed Ahmad Therefore, if people like calling Dr. Tahir-ul-Qadri as ‘Padri’ (kafir) then people can find that they have left Islam, according to the words of the Prophet صلی اللہ علیھ وآلھ وسلم, in less than a second because its proved from the authentic Ahadith that only the act of calling Christians into mosques or allowing them to pray their does NOT turn a staunch Muslim into a Padri Kafir.

We have a very important and sensitive role to play. We are the trusted Ummah of the Rasool صلی اللہ علیھ وآلھ وسلم, servants of God. It has been made our duty and our obligation to pass on the pure, unadulterated truth - make honest and full use of this honorable task.

Now anyone dare calling him a Padri .

6/12/09 Mohsin (Away) Simply Awesome!! Superb Work Brother.Mager in bicharon kay dil or demag band ho chukay hain they give more Priority to Fatwas over Quran and Sunnah.

6/12/09 Naveed Ahmad I agree brother, but all the five fingers of a hand are not equal. "Umeed pe duniya qaaim hai" you know .

6/13/09 Minaraye Noor @ naveedbut brother if u will not say the truth then people have no oprtion but to believe them. so Dr. Sahab should think about this. and tell me when u want to talk me on messenger. i will wait for that because i want to know the truth.

Brother, the work you are doing is just not for Dr. Sahab, infact it's like Serving to spread the Hadiths and love for Nabi Kareem(Sallahu Alihe Wasalam). Some People don't listen Dr. Sahab because of this baseless allegations, and in turn deprived of the Rahmat

Only those can love Dr.Sahab, who are true Aashiq-e-Rasool(Sallahu Alihe Wasalam) becoz Dr. Sahab teachs love for Nabi Kareem(Sallahu Alihe Wasalam) in his each and every talk.

Subhana'Allah

6/13/09 Mohsin (Away) Answer to Sybarite on Alahazrat CommunityNow comes the important part. Huzoor (Sallallahu Allaihe Wasallam) allowed them to pray in Masjid-e-Nabawi and they did offer their prayers as per their own customs. If you look the whole event and other reports from ahadith its evident that Huzoor (Sallallahu Allaihe Wasallam) allowed them to pray because they came to know about Islam and its beliefs and if they were not allowed to pray they would have gone back to Nijran without knowing the truth about Islam. And for that, as a wise and humble approach to call them towards Islam Rasoolullah (Sallallahu Allaihe Wasallam) allowed them to pray.

To me Dr Sahab did this with Same Hikamat and thinking that is some so-called muslims have destroyed the Image of Islam, label of terrorism and extremism has been put on it Term Jihad is being used and defined incorrectly so now it has become requirement for Ulama to tell the true message of Islam especially to non Muslims, that is why Dr Sahab allowed to pray so that they see and realize that what Islam is all about this will definitely help them to clear their misperception about Islam.

You can sum up all these replies with mine. Because we all are 'ONE'. I'll also reply but the first reply from my side has come and that is Mohsin Bhai's post.

6/13/09 Sana @MohsinVery well said...Huzoor Sheikh-ul-Islam's main focus is to spread the love of Nabi Kareem Sallallahu Alaihi Wa Sallam among the muslims around the world and to refute the mis-conceptions about Islam that are distorting the image of Islam as a religion round the globe.

Just because he is silent ppl take him for granted!

May he live longer and succeed in each step he takes! (Ameen)

6/14/09 Mohsin (Away) To Sybarite (About Celebrating Mawlid-e-Esa A.S)So saying Merry Christmas is more like saying “Merry sacrifice of Jesus”! And thus your Padri who proudly did cut the cake which said “Merry Christmas”, isnt it kind of celebrating the death, the sacrifice of Jesus?

Well we all know that Christians celebrate Christmas as what they believe to be the "day of the birth of God's Son" or what they call "God Incarnate". They don’t celebrate the birth of the Prophet, but the Son of God. And that is based on a belief that is totally against the fundamental teachings of Islam i.e Tawheed.

What Christians believe, what Christians say, how they define it, what is their Ideology behind it ...this is all their matter, niether we have any concern with it Nor Dr Sahab have any concern about it, what he is doing is whatever that is inside the Circle of Islam, Dr Sahab's Niyah is Celebrating Mawlid-e-Esa A.S, His niyah and believe behind this celebration is not like those Chirstians have! this is the point which is not getting in ur mind.

Christians have their ideology their believe their faith, we Muslims have our own Ideology faith and believe so if we celebrate Mawlid-e-Esa A.S it never means our faith our believe has become similar to them. It never means that we have accepted Chirstians faith and Believe, It never means that we are supporting their false believes.

Dr Sahab's Niyah is clear, ab chirstians jo chahay meanings kerin Jo chahay faith rakhin Jo chahay believe rakhin, they are responsible for their act and their Niyah and faith. Dr Sahab is responsible for his Niyah for this Act.

Lastly, verses u have quoted about friendship with Jews and Christians, Brother its better if u show those verses to President Zardari, because they all fit to him not on Dr Sahab, Becz Dr Sahib's Niyah are clear.

6/14/09 Fidai-SAiFi we have must important issues to figure out today as muslim rather than fighting on minor issues ,

Well said,but let me assure you one thing that If you post the same content in that community,then either you will be banned from that community by labelling you as a non-sunni or ur post will be deleted .

Y dont you give it a try

6/16/09 Obaid Khan SybariteYou've been replied till now, almost word by word so now try to act decent and rather than jumping into another discussions like that Christianity and Christmas ones, get that official stuff.

Replied ...Where did Sybarite replied.Infact it was Naveed who refuted all the allegations and after you saw those refutations,it was then that the administration decided to spam that thread .Let me repeat it buddy,you haven't replied to any of Naveed's posts with authentic proofs.Stop living with this misconception that you have replied to the posts of naveed with authentic dalail

And ohh yea,the only thing which you did is abusing,name calling and yea,how can i forget,finding grammatical mistakes in Naveed's replies.Because that's all you could have done when you are left with no answer.

So spend some time and make sure you reply to the posts of naveed which he posted initially. first | < previous | next > | last report spam reply « back to topics

6/17/09 Mohsin (Away) Answer to SybriateJust give me one single hadith or anything authentic which proves that what Allah has declared impermissible can be declared permissible just by having a good niyyat.

Kindly prove that celebrating Mawlid-e-Esa A.S is Impermissible

So according to your theory of Intention all those brain-washed suicide bombers who are willing to blast themselves in pieces and killing innocent people will directly be going in to Jannat as they are doing it with the intention to please Allah!

6/17/09 Shazia Do members think there will some positive result of this blaming tactics adopted by both.u people r creating mess here n in that community too.

6/17/09 Mohsin (Away) To SybraiteEhm ehm.. Hey Naveed, its that how MQI's student replies in detail?

Im not a student of MQI niether i have its membership.I just have akeedat with Dr Sahab becz of 'Nisbat' with Rasul صلی اللہ علیھ وآلھ وسلم Ahl-e-Bait and Sahaba-e-karam. U care about 'nisbat' with Chirstians that is why u see only issues related to them.

And you Mohsin, why you're trying to run away from the theory you presented yourself. I didnt claim that Mawlid-e-Isa (Allaihe Salam) is impermissible so its simply very idiotic and also typical Tahiri to ask me to prove a thing which I am already in affirmation with. So get back to your senses.

Then what is that thing that u claim is Impermissible ? It that is really impermissible then i'll accept it, becz im not a blind follower like u, I accept only Quran and Hadith and things which are under it.

If killing a human is equal to killing to whole humanity then imitating the disbelievers is being one of them as per hadith.

How can u say that celebrating Mawlid-e-Esa A.S is equal to imitating with the disbelievers ? Dont talk like deobandis, and dont behave like them, becz just like u, they also blame that visiting Graves and shrines is just like wroshipping Idols as hindus are doing.

Taliban followers are going against Quran and Sunnah, Prove it that Dr Sahab is also going against it !!

6/17/09 Mohsin (Away) To SybraiteAnd about good intentions, did you really look into my heart, that I am not looking for answers and all that? I mean how did you judge that, please answer

I already told u in my last post, ur kirdar ur amal ur attitude ur way of objecting clarifies ur intentions, and sorry to say all these things in u are similar to Deobandis, just like deobandi raise objections and when it is answered they start shouting mocking abusing same is the case with u, as they dont need any answer any clarification similarly u dont need any thing Becz ur heart is full of hatred.

And yet disagreement with your Padri is now being declared as rejecting Quran-o-Hadith!

6/17/09 Mohsin (Away) To SybariteFirstly you took just one single paragraph of my post from the session of June 13th and replied it, ignoring all the other material I posted in that session. Then a day later you replied another paragraph from that very session of June 13th and ignoring whats written before and after that paragraph totally!

My reply was conclusive, and complete it was not only for selective lines infact it was for ur whole session (as those selective lines are conclusion from ur side), there was nothing logical, verse u have quoted are irrelevant i told u to show those verses to President Zardari as they fit on him.

Rest ka mai nay answer daydia hai, whatever u have said is all ur bad-gumani what ever u think about Dr Sahab, that is all wrong, u took wrong meanings of Celebrating Mawlid-e-Esa A.S and started shouting on it.

now since u have no answer to my posts so u have started talking non sense that answer me ... brother dont behave like deobandis i have told u several times... grown up behave like a man and answer whatever i have asked... or go and hide some where like deobandis.

6/17/09 Mohsin (Away) to SybariteAnd yeah dont you dare to call me brother. Pehlay bhi bata chuka ke mere ye gaali hai, truly offensive to be a brother of your kind so bajaye rishtay bananay ke try to answer the posts adequately. I wont reply to your weeping. Readers are mature enough to decide who is running from what

Hehe..brother im bound to call u brother, again just becz of Nisbat, since u have nisbat with Rasul Sallallahu Allaihe Wasallam so becz of this nisbat i m considering u my brother, else i have no interest in u.

I just found ur reply in the garbage plz next time before repling me dont forget to write @Mohsin.

6/17/09 Naveed Ahmad Hehe..brother im bound to call u brother, again just becz of Nisbat, since u have nisbat with Rasul Sallallahu Allaihe Wasallam so becz of this nisbat i m considering u my brother, else i have no interest in u.

I guess you have already ruined his whole aggression/stupid attitude Bro. Thumbs up! first | < previous | next > | last report spam reply « back to topics

6/18/09 ◘♥Nadeem♥ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JC6faEZAkJEhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TGkuzEPOtd0http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ce81MZPRXAAhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tIAr3BxmE7shttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VUy_DPeqodMhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BQXraSnxwUohttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3H2-ruMoZAwAnd there are many more videos.And about this video that Dr.Tahir Ul Qadri paarticipates in the Ahle Tashi gathereing,there are many speeches of Hazrat Pir Syed Naseer Udin Naseer Sb.Sajjada Nasheen of Golra Sharif in which he participates in their gathering.About Eman e Abu Talib,there is a lecture of Hazrat Allama Mukhtar Shah Naeemi Sb.who is Khalifa of Hazrat Shakh Ul Islam Madni Mian Ashrafi Sb.he has also given a lecture about the Eman e Abu Talib.Plz give me answer about this.I will be very thankful to u.

6/18/09 ◘♥Nadeem♥

Sayeed Rasul Shah Chakwal died at the age of 130 and he was the disiciple (khalifa) of Aala Hadrat Ahmed Raza khan radi allah hu tallah anho.

He gave the title (laqb) of Shaykh ul Islam to Dr. Muhammad Tahir ul Qadri sahab in 1994.

6/18/09 Mohsin (Away) Reply to SybariteSorry Brother due to long power failure i would not be able to reply u early, but Alhumdolillah Now im back with the answers to ur raised objections..I agree about clearing the misconceptions about Islam spread by those suicide bombers and such fanatics. But what allowing Christians to pray in Masajid have to do with that? .Same as Prophet صلی اللہ علیھ وآلھ وسلم did He صلی اللہ علیھ وآلھ وسلم allowed Christians to Pray in Masjid-e-Nabavi, Why Prophet صلی اللہ علیھ وآلھ وسلم allowed them to Pray ? Whatever is ur answer, same answer is from us. And I have already answered this, and told u the hikamat behind it. Plz don’t ask things again and again..I mean you can arrange a Muslim – Christian Dialogue event or anything like it. .Yes we can, this is also a way, but this does not means that this is the “only” way. Dr Sahab did this following the Sunnah of Prophet صلی اللہ علیھ وآلھ وسلم, which is the best way to tell truth about Islam to Non Muslims. And look at this:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C0rvyU1Fg8U.That can be a justification that it has been done for spreading the true teachings of Islam. .No doubt about it, but as I said that is not the “only” way for spreading True teachings..But why allowing them to pray in Masajid? .Why Prophet صلی اللہ علیھ وآلھ وسلم allowed them ? And whats wrong in it ? is it causing trouble to Islam ? or something like that ? Christians are getting impressed with it as their knowledge about Islam is increasing and I showed u a link in which a non Muslim Christian accepts Islam on Hand of Shaykh ul Islam. So results are coming and they are proving that this way is good and moving in positive directions. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IDhhTGyFjis.So results are the clear prove for this act. I humbly request u to calm down and just see the results!

6/18/09 Mohsin (Away) And if that’s the case then why only Christians are allowed to pray in Masajid? .Why Prophet صلی اللہ علیھ وآلھ وسلم allowed ‘ONLY’ Christians to pray in Masjid-e-Nawavi ?.Scholars around the globe are spreading the true teachings of Islam, scholars around the globe do denounce the suicide bombings and all that, but so far none of them acted like a buffoon as your Padri! None of them allowed Christians to pray in Masajid. .I appreciate their efforts for this deen-e-Islam. But again as I said there are certain ways in shairah to spread the true message of religion. And results are the clear evidence for it. Since ur heart is full of hatred so u like the way of other Ulamas not the way of Dr Sahab which is absolutely according to Sunnah. Jab dil mai nafrat or bughz ho tou bas apnay matlab kay logon ki baat pasand ate hai mager jis say nafrat hai wo ager sunnat per amal bhee ker raha ho phir bhi wo ghalat lagay ga. Isliye I always say care about the Nisbat, see with this relation, love and hatred to anyone should be always according to Nisbat-e-Rasul صلی اللہ علیھ وآلھ وسلم..And what you gonna call Hazrat Umar (Radi Allahu Anhu)? Didnt he have Hikmah? (Nauzubillah). And if he had (for us he surely had) Hikmah then why did he forcibly expelled Jews and Christians from Arab Peninsula? Islam needed to be spread in that era more than this one! ..Umar expelled the Jews and the Christians from Hijaz. When Allah's Apostle had conquered Khaibar, he wanted to expel the Jews from it as its land became the property of Allah, His Apostle, and the Muslims. Allah's Apostle intended to expel the Jews but they requested him to let them stay there on the condition that they would do the labor and get half of the fruits. Allah's Apostle told them, "We will let you stay on thus condition, as long as we wish." So, they (i.e. Jews) kept on living there until 'Umar forced them to go towards Taima' and Ariha'.(Sahih Bukhari)

6/18/09 Mohsin (Away) Khud dekhiye abhi aap nay expel kernay ki baat ki aab aap khud kehtay hain:About tableegh, who is asking you to show hatred towards them? Don’t try to twist it up to confuse the readers kid! Nobody is asking you to hate them, nobody asking you to do anything offensive against them. .Just before u were talking about to expel them, now u are saying nobody asking you to do anything offensive against them. samjh nahi ataa ap chahtay kia hain..But that doesn’t mean that we should accept them with all their diabolical beliefs. .Who said this ? who the hell is taking such idiotic meanings ? are u in ur senses ? Prophet صلی اللہ علیھ وآلھ وسلم allowed them to pray in masjid-e-Nawavi does this means Huzur صلی اللہ علیھ وآلھ وسلم is accepting their false beliefs (Astagfirullah) ? can u provide any reference in which Dr Sahab said that their believes are correct or we accept their believes (Maz-Allah). Please give me proper reference for it. And if u have no reference then brother Khuda kay liye is bad-gumani kay zehar say bachin is say aap ko kuch nahi milnay wala !.Even when the Christians of Nijran came to Rasoolullah (Sallallahu Allaihe Wasallam), our Prophet (Sallallahu Allaihe Wasallam) was humble towards them but also did refuse their false belief right infront of them and told them the truth and when they refuse to accept the truth, Rasoolullah (Sallallahu Allaihe Wasallam) did even call them for Mubahila. Now would you call this attempt as harsh or offensive? .What evidence u have that Dr Sahab donot refuse their false believes ? and as far as my knowledge is concerned Christians offered first for Mubahilla (Correct me if im wrong). And Prophet صلی اللہ علیھ وآلھ وسلم accepted it. first | < previous | next > | last report spam reply « back to topics

6/18/09 Mohsin (Away) And why not celebrating the birthday of all the other Prophets? .I have already told u the Hikmat behind it becz it is sunnah and Order of Allah in Quran that : Invite towards the path of your Lord with strategic wisdom and refined exhortation Still u feel uncomfortable then answer this that Why do u celebrate Birthday of Adam A.S only ? us wakht ap kay dil mai baki Ambiya A.S kay milaad ka khayal kiyon nahi ataa ? .Neither your Padri denied their false beliefs as Rasoolullah (Sallallahu Allaihe Wasallam) denied the false beliefs of that delegation from Nijran. .I have explained this that matter of Nijran was slightly different from this case, Dr Sahab will refute their false believe (and I think he has refuted their false believes in his lectures), but when time come according to the verse [16:125]. .Again ager baat samjh nahi arahi tou my Question is why Prophet صلی اللہ علیھ وآلھ وسلم did not refute Kuffar false believe openly before Aylan-e-Nabuwat ?.why the hell you celebrated Christmas in a typical Christian way? .What is their way ? and whats wrong in it. Please tell me I will accept if it is really wrong..Why every piece of decoration there was typically Christian and had “Christmas” written over it, why not Mawlid-e-Isa? Why no Naat or Qasida been recited but the Christmas Song?

6/18/09 Mohsin (Away) I told u whatever Christians define this word is their belief not ours, so we have nothing to do with their meanings and believe what our mission and our strategy is, that to spread Islam with wisdom. U are continuously taking its wrong meanings, if we suppose that u are correct then Dr Sahab would have wrote books on Christianity not on Islam, he would have delivered lectures on Christianity not on Islam, people watching and listening him would have been converted to Christianity not to Islam!.Results are the prove brother…So aisaa kuch na hona ye sabit kerta hai kay aap ki baat aap ki thinking ka hakikat say koi talluq nahi. What every u have said about him is all ur thinking which as no relation with the reality infact it is totally against and opposite to the reality..I hope I have covered all ur Objections, now the things which have been answer, I will not repeat them again, if something is left then u can raise it, otherwise if ur heart is still full with hatred then we cant do anything only those Ulama can change u to whom u are following Blindly!.Fi Amanillah

6/19/09 Naveed Ahmad So now Huzoor Taaj’ush-Shariah is in the list of illiterate people for the creed of Padri. Good to see that you black sheeps finally revealed your filthy selves. Its no wonder if you declare each and every scholar as illiterate people who oppose your Padri as this is the best you can do! I know what you gonna do next. You'll start crying that "that statement wasnt for Huzoor Taaj'ush-Shariah" but we all heard Huzoor Taaj'ush-Shariah as well as Hazrat Allama Kokab Noorani calling that buffoon Padri!

I feel said for you my friend. Yes, I’m going to say that “That statement wasn’t for Hazoor Taajashariyah but yes it was for Kaukab Noorani”. You know why? Because you blind Wahhabi-impressed buffoon can’t read out the text clearly or you don’t want to. See the whole post once again and try to find these words as in the post as well if you can:-

One who has the knowledge, the people around him bound him to put veils on it and simply go against the very own traditions.

Hello there? Can you see it now? I already knew that you will do something like that to create some sorts of misconceptions as your other friends are doing on some more places also. But don’t worry, it needs some mind as well and you guys mostly lack in it so yeaa!

I'm busy in another project including those verdicts thing. I'll come up with more stuff later on. Till then the reply to your foolish statements on Christians issue will be given by Obaid Bhai whom you attacked in your posts. Handle him if you can, I know you won't be able to do so. Man! I've already said, Irfan Qadri tou kya tum mein se baray se bara paagal bhi aa jaye, even a junior student of MQI University would be slapping on your face just like that. Remember Sami Bhai? He wasn't even the student of this University, just an admirer of Dr. Sahib and the Khosha cheen of his work. All of us here on orkut are witness that the most knowledgeable person on the web was him, undoubtedly. Best of luck against Obaid, Nadeem, Mohsin, Raheem Bhai .

6/19/09 Obaid Khan SybariteFirst of all, inviting Christians to pray in Masajid is not the only reason why your Padri been addressed as Padri. There are others reasons too, like he declares them “Believers”. I assume you don’t need the proof for this and if you do, just ask me.

Sure, go ahead. But please this time don’t come up with some stuff from a magazine kind of thing because I’m fed up of it. And by the way can you help us how to contact that Mr. Deed Shoneed? No one anywhere even knows about it’s name even . first | < previous | next > | last report spam reply « back to topics

6/19/09 Obaid Khan Now lets see the teachings of Quran-o-Hadith in this regard;

Look who’s talking . Are you really aware of these things dude? No you’re not! Let’s see how…

'And never the Jews and Christians will be pleased with you unless you follow their Din (creed). Say then! 'The guidance of Allah is the only guidance', (O listener who he may be) if you become follower of their desires, after the knowledge that has come to you, then no one will be your protector from Allah and no helper.

Why did you give this Ayat to support that weak Fatwa of calling him a Padri? I mean where in the whole scene did this conversion of Deen come from? Look that’s why I said that you don’t know about Quran and Sunnah so don’t bother to give them as references please. If you try to read the whole Surah, and not only rely on the ‘Paki Pakaai’ only then you can easily find another Ayat which discriminates some of them from the rest. Here you go with it:

Surah al-baqarah, Ayat No. 62 (2:62)

Verily, those who have believed, and (those who were) Jews and Christians and Sabians, those (of them) who believe in Allah and the Last Day and act piously, there is for them their reward with their Lord. Neither shall any fear obsess them, nor shall they grieve.

6/19/09 Obaid Khan ''O believer! Do not take the Jews and Christians as friends, they are friends of each other among themselves, and whoso of you makes them his friends, then he is one of them. Undoubtedly Allah guides not the people unjust.

Man! Today this Holy Ayat implements on the Christians from America and the Jews from Israel and others. But NOT the ones living in your country and localities as minorities damn it! In the same Surah al-Maida you can find another Ayat if you read it. It goes as under:

Surah al-maida Ayat No. 82 (5:82)

You will indeed find the Jews and the polytheists the bitterest of people in their enmity against the Muslims, and the closest in love and affection for the Muslims you will find those who say: ‘Indeed we are Nazarenes (Christians).’ This is because among them are savants (i.e. scholars of Shari‘a) as well as monks (i.e. ascetic worshippers) and (moreover) they are not given to arrogance.

6/19/09 Obaid Khan Who is seeking the assistance and who is seeking the help and all? Were you at drugs while quoting these Holy Ayaat?

'Let not the Muslims takes infidels as their friends besides the Muslims and whosoever shall do that he has no connection with Allah, but this that have some fear of them; and Allah cautions you from His wrath; and unto Allah is the return.

Can't you really read those words ‘besides the Muslims’? Let me clear it a bit:

'Let not the believers take the disbelievers as patrons, rather than, that is, instead of, the believers — for whoever does that, that is, [whoever] takes them as patrons, does not belong to, the religion of, God in anyway.

Don’t tell me that you still didn’t get this?

6/19/09 Obaid Khan Then after you went on blindly quoting the Ahadith Paak as if Dr. Sahib is every now and then seen with the Christians in Churches? Why the hell are you so stupid? By no means you have denied that the act of calling him a Padri just because of those acts of allowing Christians to pray inside the mosque and celebrating the Mawlid of Isa AlayheSalaam is out of Islam, in fact it is proved from the Sunnah that Christians STAYED inside Masjid-e-Nabwi and Prophet SallallaahoAlayheWasallima took care of those Christians by himself. Naveed wrongly typed those references there. Follow this one for that Hadith : Ibn-e-Katheer, al-Seerat-ul-Nabwi: 2:31.

Now let’s discuss the difference between those Christians whom our Beloved SallallaahoAlayheWasallima talked about and those with whom you saw Dr. Sahib .

Imam Abu Yusuf in his famous book “al-kitaab-ul-Kharaaj” states that during the time of Prophet SallallaahoAlayheWasallima and the Khilafat-e-Rashida, Penal Law gave Muslims and Non-Muslims equal position. During the period of prophet SallallahoAlayheWasallima a Muslim killed a non-Muslim and according to the law of Qasaas, He ordered the death penalty of the Muslim and said “Protection of the rights of non-Muslims is my most important obligation”.

6/19/09 Obaid Khan Remember those words of Mufti Akhtar Raza when he said that he is doing Christian-Nawaazi and so it’s of no harm to call him a Padri? Now tell me who is doing that so called Christian-Nawaazi . Now again consider that line of putting veils over the knowledge.

Now we are moving towards that so called Christian-Nawaazi of the Khulafa-e-Rashideen.

One who is from our non-Muslim tenants, his blood and our blood is equal and his Diyat is same as ours. (Hazrat Ali)

Behaqi, al-Sunan al Kubraa, 8:34

If some Muslim kills a non-Muslim then he’ll be killed according to law. (Hazrat Ali)

Shebani al-Hujjah, 4:349

Diyat of Jews and Christians is equal to Muslim’s. (Hazrat Ali)

Abd-ur-Razzaq, al-Musannaf 10:95.

6/19/09 Obaid Khan During the period of Hazrat Umar, a Muslim killed a non-Muslim, on this he wrote a letter to them in which he wrote “Killer should be handed over to the family of the slain. If they want to kill him they can kill him or if they want forgive him they can. Thus he was handed over to the family of the slain and was killed.

(Sin`ani Sibl al-Islam, 3:251)

Hazrat Usman gave the Fatwa of death for Ubaid-u-Allaah bin Umar because he killed Harmzan, Jufeenah, and Abu Lulu’s daughter in doubt that they were involved in the murder of Hazrat Umar.

(Ibn-e-Sa`ad al-Tabqaat-ul-Qubraa, 5:71)

(Ibn-e-Sa`ad al-Tabqaat-ul-Qubraa, 5:71)

A great narrator of Hadith, Ibn-e-Shahhaab Zohri states that

“No doubt, in the periods of Abu Bakr and Usman RadiAllaahoAnhum, Diyat of a Non-Muslim was equal to that of an independent Muslim”

Its people like you who are defaming the name of Islam.People like you are making the job of Western Media easy by uttering such rubbish.Grow up kid,before it gets too late.

6/19/09 Obaid Khan Sybarite,with loveFirst of all get over this "buddy buddy" kiddie-nonsensical crap! Its more like a gaali to me to be a buddy of such a retard like you, so please spare me the horror!

Munna,neither am I interested to be a buddy of an extremist/fanatic like u,who is doing his best to malign the name of Great Ala Hazrat RA.Mohsin bhai called u brother,but I must say,it was Mohsin bhai's fault,how could he expect you to follow Hadith.For you,fatwa comes first.....I knew that u wud say the same to me as well,thats why i was forced to address u as a buddy.....my bad,i must say.But from now on,i will be addressing u as Munna and I hope u wont mind

Lekin Mohsin bhai ne apse kuch zyada hi expect karlia.....

6/19/09 Gulam -e- Rasool 4 Obaidhow could he expect you to follow Hadith.For you,fatwa comes firstlet me remind you that frist comes the knowledge of hadith which no one on the entire orkut hasthen comes fatwa derived from haithonly those person who has knowledge of hadithcan pass a fatwapeople like u, me, mohsin, sabryite n alldont have enought knowledge to debate on hadith

6/19/09 Obaid Khan SybariteAnd about "and after you saw those refutations,it was then that the administration decided to spam that thread", well I came into this way after that thread thrown to spam and I was the one who requested Naveed to hold his horses till I read the whole thread and then talk there rather than jumping around other threads. You can ask Naveed about that. So technically I was the one who brought this thread out of spam.

Benefit of doubt goes in your favor.Dont worry,we are not used of making every thing an issue.

Way to go boy! Well can you please, I mean really pleeasseee put the count here of how many times I've indicated Naveed's grammatical mistakes? Put Naveed's count as well haa!

Well as u can see the time interval between my posts is a bit long,so it should be clear enough for u to understand(provided u have brain) that I do have better things to do,unlike you. first | < previous | next > | last report spam reply « back to topics

After reading the posts of Naveed bhai and Mohsin bhai,i have become truely an admirer of Dr.sahabI was not too fond of Dr sahib earlier, but Allah's blessing on me , that i have used my sense and have become a fan of him.

Long live Dr. sahab.

6/19/09 Obaid Khan Sybarite

I've replied this crap in my earlier post. Asked Naveed to put some effort and a make list/summary of the post which you think arent replied yet..Dream on Boy.By claiming this,u r trying ur best to convince the fools around you,but I m pretty sure that you ur self are not convinced with ur replies.One can easily see that now you are making it a matter of ego,just as u did last time.Go see yourself how much u have answered .And by answering,i mean answering with authentic dalail and not ur crap which just contains abuses and personal attacks.

6/19/09 Mohsin (Away) @AllI appreciates the efforts done by Naveed bhai and Obaid Bhai, both are doing great by providing references, but i want to request one thing, and this is for me as well that is we should stay calm humble and peaceful against the harsh and aggressive attitude of Sybarite (Ahmed). Even sometime I also got mad and start using harsh words, but seriously it has no effect, rather it will result in more deviation hatred aggression between sunnies. So I’ll try to keep calm and request u all to do the same as Shaykh-ul-Islam use to follow this way.

Sufia never show aggression they don’t care who is their opponent and what he’s saying they always remain calm and peaceful and always reply them in this humble manner. This is the beauty of Islam.

6/19/09 Nasir Mustafavi

SALAAM to all.

I am immensely happy to announce that I am no more with the people like Sybarite, Ali Razvi and other people of their kind who are ruining the image of AlaHazrat and his superb teachings.

I have been following the whole scene since beginning and I have found that people who forget the real teachings of their Bazurghs can't even talk properly and only abuse the great scholars like Doctor Sahib. I am happy that I have found the truth that Doctor Tahir ul Qadri is alhamdulillah following the true Aqeedah and that is the true Islam, the Ahl e Sunat wal Jamat. For the readers, I am a hardcore lover of AlaHazrat still, but i'm sad that those who are calling themselves as the care takers of that Maslak, are in fact themself very far away from it.

I pay thanks to Allah and his beloved (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) that i've been able to find the truth alhamdulillah.

I was away but now Insha Allah I will be actively monitoring this discussion.

Brother Naveed, Obaid, Mohsin and others have done a remarkable job and indeed Sheikh ul Islam Dr Muhammad Tahir ul Qadri (rah) is proven to be a great scholar whereas on the other hand the Hasideen have only ended up with their faces being colored black with coal.

6/19/09 Fidai-SAiFi yaar close this discussion , here and in other community , no need to discuss it leave the matter to ulemas , we should concentrate on islah work

6/19/09 Nasir Mustafavi SAiFi NaqshbandiBhai ask this thing to Sybrite and others in there Ala Hazrat community,we have not started this fight. WHY DONT YOU GIVE IT A LAST TRY???

6/19/09 Naveed Ahmad Saifi Bhai

I can understand that your stance is a bit changed from us. But you remember the Ilmi Ikhtilaaf of Hazoor Pir-e-Archi Hazrat Akhoondzada Saif-ur-Rehman Mubarak Shah Sahib MaddazillahulAali and Hazrat Peer Muhammad Chishti from Peshawar? They both imposed the Fatwa of Kufr on each other but later on through discussions they both became good friends again? Same is the decision we are waiting for from this discussion. I hope this example can better elaborate the situation to you my friend .

Obaid Bhai

Bravo!

@ All

I'll reply your posts shortly as I am waiting get to pc's m.board from warranty (thanks to KESC ), cant actually reply from a cafe so hope you wont mind waiting for a day or two..

Brothers I'm sure we won't mind him not replying till a day or two because their may many reasons for that. May be some people are not free that they send him the mail or he's not being able to contact them or really his PC is making problems or the Caf`e he's using doesn't allow him to do anything else than ________ or there may be hell of other reasons as well. But till then, I want to show my immense happiness on the confessions being made here Alhamdulillaah. Congratulations to both of my brothers who have come to the truth after following the whole discussion. Allaah mazeed Irfan-o-Agaahi dey, Ameen!

6/19/09 Naveed Ahmad I was away but now Insha Allah I will be actively monitoring this discussion.

Our pleasure Aamir Bhai .

6/19/09 Naveed Ahmad Congratulations to both of my brothers ...

One of them (Slogged) is a Sister, sorry Sis. my bad . Congratulations once again. first | < previous | next > | last report spam reply « back to topics

After reading the posts of Naveed bhai and Mohsin bhai,i have become truely an admirer of Dr.sahabI was not too fond of Dr sahib earlier, but Allah's blessing on me , that i have used my sense and have become a fan of him.

Long live Dr. sahab.

6/19/09 Obaid Khan Sybarite

I've replied this crap in my earlier post. Asked Naveed to put some effort and a make list/summary of the post which you think arent replied yet..Dream on Boy.By claiming this,u r trying ur best to convince the fools around you,but I m pretty sure that you ur self are not convinced with ur replies.One can easily see that now you are making it a matter of ego,just as u did last time.Go see yourself how much u have answered .And by answering,i mean answering with authentic dalail and not ur crap which just contains abuses and personal attacks.

6/19/09 Mohsin (Away) @AllI appreciates the efforts done by Naveed bhai and Obaid Bhai, both are doing great by providing references, but i want to request one thing, and this is for me as well that is we should stay calm humble and peaceful against the harsh and aggressive attitude of Sybarite (Ahmed). Even sometime I also got mad and start using harsh words, but seriously it has no effect, rather it will result in more deviation hatred aggression between sunnies. So I’ll try to keep calm and request u all to do the same as Shaykh-ul-Islam use to follow this way.

Sufia never show aggression they don’t care who is their opponent and what he’s saying they always remain calm and peaceful and always reply them in this humble manner. This is the beauty of Islam.

6/19/09 Nasir Mustafavi

SALAAM to all.

I am immensely happy to announce that I am no more with the people like Sybarite, Ali Razvi and other people of their kind who are ruining the image of AlaHazrat and his superb teachings.

I have been following the whole scene since beginning and I have found that people who forget the real teachings of their Bazurghs can't even talk properly and only abuse the great scholars like Doctor Sahib. I am happy that I have found the truth that Doctor Tahir ul Qadri is alhamdulillah following the true Aqeedah and that is the true Islam, the Ahl e Sunat wal Jamat. For the readers, I am a hardcore lover of AlaHazrat still, but i'm sad that those who are calling themselves as the care takers of that Maslak, are in fact themself very far away from it.

I pay thanks to Allah and his beloved (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) that i've been able to find the truth alhamdulillah.

I was away but now Insha Allah I will be actively monitoring this discussion.

Brother Naveed, Obaid, Mohsin and others have done a remarkable job and indeed Sheikh ul Islam Dr Muhammad Tahir ul Qadri (rah) is proven to be a great scholar whereas on the other hand the Hasideen have only ended up with their faces being colored black with coal.

6/19/09 Fidai-SAiFi yaar close this discussion , here and in other community , no need to discuss it leave the matter to ulemas , we should concentrate on islah work

6/19/09 Nasir Mustafavi SAiFi NaqshbandiBhai ask this thing to Sybrite and others in there Ala Hazrat community,we have not started this fight. WHY DONT YOU GIVE IT A LAST TRY???

6/19/09 Naveed Ahmad Saifi Bhai

I can understand that your stance is a bit changed from us. But you remember the Ilmi Ikhtilaaf of Hazoor Pir-e-Archi Hazrat Akhoondzada Saif-ur-Rehman Mubarak Shah Sahib MaddazillahulAali and Hazrat Peer Muhammad Chishti from Peshawar? They both imposed the Fatwa of Kufr on each other but later on through discussions they both became good friends again? Same is the decision we are waiting for from this discussion. I hope this example can better elaborate the situation to you my friend .

Obaid Bhai

Bravo!

@ All

I'll reply your posts shortly as I am waiting get to pc's m.board from warranty (thanks to KESC ), cant actually reply from a cafe so hope you wont mind waiting for a day or two..

Brothers I'm sure we won't mind him not replying till a day or two because their may many reasons for that. May be some people are not free that they send him the mail or he's not being able to contact them or really his PC is making problems or the Caf`e he's using doesn't allow him to do anything else than ________ or there may be hell of other reasons as well. But till then, I want to show my immense happiness on the confessions being made here Alhamdulillaah. Congratulations to both of my brothers who have come to the truth after following the whole discussion. Allaah mazeed Irfan-o-Agaahi dey, Ameen!

6/19/09 Naveed Ahmad I was away but now Insha Allah I will be actively monitoring this discussion.

Our pleasure Aamir Bhai .

6/19/09 Naveed Ahmad Congratulations to both of my brothers ...

One of them (Slogged) is a Sister, sorry Sis. my bad . Congratulations once again. first | < previous | next > | last report spam reply « back to topics

6/21/09 Mohsin (Away) Answer to SybariteThat wasn’t a GENERAL scenario. Those Christians came all the way from Nijran and there was no place for them to offer their prayers. .Bhai tou kia zameen short hogaee thee ? wahan kia open space nahi thee ? Huzur صلی اللہ علیھ وآلھ وسلم kisi separate jaga per un kay liye prayers ki space dedicate ferma sakthay thay ya nahi ?...why Huzur صلی اللہ علیھ وآلھ وسلم selected Masjid-e-Nabvi the most Muqadas place on universe for this ? why not any other place ?.And according to u if there is no other place then Christians are allowed to pray at Masjid, but if there is other place (church) then they are banned to pray in masjid !… does this makes any sense ? Prophet’s صلی اللہ علیھ وآلھ وسلم allowed them to pray at masjid this shows that how much Prophet’s care about them how much importance and rights are given to non muslims, what is the top level of Ikhlaq Prophet صلی اللہ علیھ وآلھ وسلم have for non muslims, how much He صلی اللہ علیھ وآلھ وسلم was kind for them. .Don’t interpret hadiths according to ur wishes, and mind it by interpreting in this wrong way u are denying the beautiful top class Qualities like Iklaq, tolerance, love, heartiness, hospitality, kindness of Prophet صلی اللہ علیھ وآلھ وسلم for non Muslims..Rasoolullah (Sallallahu Allaihe Wasallam)’s decision to allowed them to offer their prayers in Masjid-e-Nabawi was not a Hukm-e-Aam! If that was the case than all of the Christians would have been allowed to pray in Masajid not only that specific delegation of Christians. .Can u provide any reference for this ? that christians are banned to pray in masjid, may it will help to clear.

6/21/09 Mohsin (Away) Now what Rasoolullah (Sallallahu Allaihe Wasallam)’s decision has to do with spreading Islam is that if Rasoolullah (Sallallahu Allaihe Wasallam) didn’t allow them to pray where else they would’ve offered their prayers? .App صلی اللہ علیھ وآلھ وسلم ek hokum fermatay or foran un kay liye ek separate jaga per worship kernay kay liye place ready ki ja sakti thee, mager Masjid-e-Nabavi jisaee paak jaga jis jaiseee paak or tahir jaga puri duniya mai nahi us jaga non Muslims ko pray kernay kay liye allow kerna this clearly proves the open heart tolerance care and beautiful Ikhlaaq or Prophet صلی اللہ علیھ وآلھ وسلم..Dr Sahab himself answer this:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZOigDlUeIYo.What a beautiful statement Dr Sahab made in the end, tht is we have implemented Islam deen and considered it as according to our own wishes and our own “tabiyat”. .Where as Dr. Padri called them in a totally opposite situation. Christians do have their Churches in Lahore where they can freely offer their prayers. .What Dr Sahib did is all Sunnah, If u have objection then raise it in the Bargah of Holy Prophet صلی اللہ علیھ وآلھ وسلم that why He صلی اللہ علیھ وآلھ وسلم allow them to pray in Masjid ? He could order them to pray anywhere else in Madina..? He could order sahaba-e-Karam to build separate place for them…? There were many options for this purpose..So was allowing Christians to pray in Masajid the only way? .Where I said it is the “only” way ? .I explained twice that Nijran delegation case was specific not general and that is evident by the whole history of Islam. If that was a general case then there should be atleast one single example of doing so and there is none! .Brother kehnay say pehlay soch lia kero kia keh rahay ho, u need one more here it is:

6/21/09 Mohsin (Away) Whenever any foreigner Non-Muslim delegations came in the Barigah-e-Noori صلی اللہ علیھ وآلھ وسلم, He صلی اللہ علیھ وآلھ وسلم Himself used to take care of everything. Thus, when a Christian delegation from Ethiopia came to Madinah in his barigah He صلی اللہ علیھ وآلھ وسلم made them to stay inside Masjid-e-Nabwi صلی اللہ علیھ وآلھ وسلم and himself took the responsibility of their hospitality and said:.“These people are special and prestigious for our companions, that’s why I liked to take care of their respect and honor and hospitality by myself”..References:1. Sahih Bukhari: 3:1154, Hadith No. 29952. Shawkani, Neel al-Awtaar: 7:1553. Sin’ani, Sibl al-Islam: 4:69

.So brother this expose ur false baseless and illogical interpretation that it was a specific not General..Ab ye mat kehna kay I need third example…. Maanna ap ko wisay bhee nahi hai even hazar example bhee dekha di jain..And what about all those scholars (whom you appreciated) working to spread the true teachings of Islam especially in the West? Are they all unaware of this Sunnah of Rasoolullah (Sallallahu Allaihe Wasallam)? They need to act upon it more than the Scholars of sub-continent as we don’t have the Christians-Muslim crisis as much as they do. And still they are ignoring the best way to tell the truth and the Sunnah as well as per your claim! .Ye baykar ki baatin na kero, what they are doing I appreciate them Allah unhin is ki jaza ataa keray, if they haven’t perform such act this does not means they are unaware of it or they reject this Sunnah of Prophet صلی اللہ علیھ وآلھ وسلم. They are also following Sunnah and Dr Sahib is also following Sunnah, if u have guts then prove it that this way is not Sunnah!

6/21/09 Mohsin (Away) You’re turning a place where Muslims suppose to worship Allah into a Church where Christians can praise Jesus whom they believe to be the Son of God and that too with no apparent reason and still asking what to bad in it! .So when Christians prayed in Masjid-e-Nabavi according to their way, then does it became Church (Astagfirullah) ? Use some common sense brother, ur all objections are going directly to Prophet صلی اللہ علیھ وآلھ وسلم. Atleast un ka he khayal kerlin..I previously asked you that what allowing them to pray in Masajid has to do with the knowledge of Islam? I have already answered this, and I have told u that this is the time to clear misperceptions in non muslims about Islam. To show them the true teachings of Islam..The video description itself says that it happened in “Al-Hidaya Camp 2006”! Did he really accepted Islam just because Dr. Padri allowed him to pray in Masjid, or their were other reasons? .All of sudden koi ek do lecture sun ker nahi accept kerlayta Islam, that person must be observing Dr Sahib from long time, and at that occasion he found it most appropriate time to declare and accept Islam..Or wisay bhee ager koi islam masjid mai accept ker bhee lay tou aap ki seyhat per koi aser nahi pernay wala, itna bara evidence dekh ker bhee tum andhay he rahay or padri kehay say baaz nahi aaye, kia khuwab mai bhee padri nazer atay hain ? .Kisi deobandi dekhata tou shiad wo maan jata mager aap tou us say bhee baray niklay..Ofcourse the reasons would be that first of all he was fortunate enough to get hidaya from Allah, .Hahaha… yar jahalat ki intayha kerdi aap nay, tou us ko or koi scholar nazer nahi aaya tha ? aap ka kay bakol padri kay pass wo Islam accept kernay ja raha hai ??? lolzzzzzzzzz

6/21/09 Mohsin (Away) Post Number 8(I have captured its screen shot im afraid that may be now u will delete it)

.Now my question is, they were just allowed to pray in the Masjid, there was no discussion held in the masjid between Muslims and Christians tell me how will they came to know about Islam ? by just praying in masjid according to their way how will they understand the believes of Islam ? .Brother seriously speaking u have crossed limits of Jahala, and this is just becz of hatred and support to ridiculous fatwas. Now u are denying ur own statements, ur own interpretations, u are denying hadiths Sunnah Qualities of Prophet صلی اللہ علیھ وآلھ وسلم just to support those fatwas. .Anyways..I never demanded to expel Jews/Christians from anywhere without any reason! .So be careful next time, and don’t post irrelevant hadiths on this issue, u presented hadith of Hazrat Umar RA expelling jews/Christians is absolutely irrelevant to discussion and I have told u the reason why they were expelled becz this is what they deserve at that time.

.Now would you please tell us that why cant we take that act i.e expelling the Jews/Christians as in general and not related to that whole incidents described in that Hadith? I mean why? .It is general, where I said it is specific to that time not it is not applicable ? it is as general as the case of Nijran, and this rule will always be applicable whenever jews or Christians or other non muslims are found doing “bagawat” for Muslims in Muslim state or something like that, so this is still applicable to expel them in such situation.

6/21/09 Mohsin (Away) Situation, scenario, conditions, circumstances dekh ker according to sunnah and shariah action liya jata hai. And everything that was done during Sahaba-e-Karam period is still applicable..As per your understanding Rasoolullah (Sallallahu Allaihe Wasallam) allowed that specific delegation of Christians to pray in Masjid and so we should not be having any problem if Dr. Padri allows the Christians to pray in Masjid. You take it generally, whereas the same you declaring Hazrat Umar (Radi Allahu Anhu)’s act as specific, because of a particular situation?.Can you please explain this contradiction?.If you are not accepting Hazrat Umar (Radi Allahu Anhu)’s act as general, which he did in a particular situation explained by yourself, then why you accepting Rasoolullah (Sallallahu Allaihe Wasallam)’s act as general which Rasoolullah (Sallallahu Allaihe Wasallam) did in a particular situation? .Both rules are sunnah and are general. Hope aab aap ko meri baat ka “Ser” or “pair” nazer agia hoga..There is no report that Dr. Padri said a word against their diabolical beliefs at that event, nothing even close to that. .I have shown u the verse for this, go and read it again [16:125].And according to my knowledge Rasoolullah (Sallallahu Allaihe Wasallam) himself invited them for Mubahila and they said we’ll think about it and will tell you tomorrow. And that’s even evident by Surah Aal-e-Imran, verse 61 which says;.Then O beloved! Whoever disputes with you about Isa after knowledge has come to you, then tell them, 'come, let us call our sons and your sons our women and your women and our souls and your souls, then let us pray earnestly, and so lay the curse of Allah upon the liars.'

6/21/09 Mohsin (Away) This verse proves that debate was initiated by Christians not By Prophet صلی اللہ علیھ وآلھ وسلم. And Prophet صلی اللہ علیھ وآلھ وسلم invited them for Mubahila not for Munazira, there is a big difference between both..Your Padri did accept them as Believers and that’s against the concept of monotheism (Tawheed) the most fundamental and basic concept of Islam as they don’t believe in monotheism. .I need its reference, and I will ask about it with some knowledgeable persons, becz my approach is to see picture from both directions in order to get clear vision..Secondly if it was really Mawlid-e-Isa (Allaihe Salam) for Dr. Padri then why he arranged that in a typical Christian fashion? I asked u whats wrong in it ? is cutting cake on mawlid, haram ?.But when you approach them in such a way then one should tell them the Islamic belief regarding Hazrat Isa (Allaihe Salam). .Read verse 16:125, it was not the appropriate time to talk on this issue becz many things are required first to be clear like label of terrorism and extremism, true image of Islam its teachings its Haqaniyat its truthfulness and things like that.. after this time comes for clarification of core issues. .Baat kehna ka hi tu mouqa tha. Khud Christians ko unhi ke tehwaar ki arrangement kar ke bulwa kar agar bataya jata tu phir tu woh araam se suntay ke dekho jee ye tu baray dil waalay hain. Humara tehwaar khud hi arrange kiya aur humein bulaya, matlab humaray hi tehwaar mein hum khud hi mehmaan! Aur phir poora tehwaar manaya bhi humaray saath, humari hi tarah, humaray liye apni Masajid tak khool dien! Iss se barh kar aur pazeerai kya karni thi aap ne janab!

.Shaykh-ul-Islam knows better than u kid, even much better than Ulama of this time, that is why He is the most successful in his Mustafavi inqalab Mission and non Muslims are accepting Islam on his hand if u cant see it then I cant do anything.

6/21/09 Mohsin (Away) Allah hidayat deta hai tu saikroo bahano se de deta hai. Allah ko deen ka kaam lena hota hai tu deen ke dushmano se bhi le leta hai! .Bilkul sahi fermaya aap nay, mager is ka matlab ye tou nahi kay hum mu band ker kay beth jain tableeg chor dain Sunnat per amal chor din..?.the Western scholars, who lives in West, preaches there, tries hard enough to spread the true teachings of Islam never adopted any such thing as your Dr. did! .Lol, they have followed just one sunnah, where as Dr Sahab followed every Sunnah of Prophet صلی اللہ علیھ وآلھ وسلم in this regard. I have shown u the result as well.And yet we don’t see a single scholar doing so, NOT A SINGLE ONE! Are they all unaware of this act which you’re declaring as Sunnah? .Go and ask them that why they are not following this sunnah of Prophet صلی اللہ علیھ وآلھ وسلم ? don’t ask from us that why they are not following it..For verse [16:125] u quoted Tafsir and highlight irrelevant part, let me show u the relevant part:.Call, mankind, O Muhammad (s), to the way of your Lord, [to] His religion, with wisdom, [with] the Qur’ān, and fair exhortation, its [the Qur’ān’s] fair exhortations, or with gentle words, and dispute with them by way of that which, that is, by way of that [manner of] disputation which, is best, such as calling [them] to God by way of His signs and calling [them] to His definitive arguments. Truly your Lord knows best, that is, He is fully knowledgeable [of], those who stray from His way and He knows best those who are guided, and will requite them — this was [revealed] before the command to fight [them].(Tafsir-e-Jalalayn) first | < previous | next > | last report spam reply « back to topics

6/21/09 Mohsin (Away) This is what I said and you quoted and see how you replied it! I asked about why Dr. Padri didn’t celebrate it with Muslims who consider Hazrat Isa (Allaihe Salam) a Prophet but with Christians who believe him to be the Son of God! And you’re countering it with this query? .Why Hazrat Khuwaja Gharib Nawaz R.A use to eat and drink with Hindus ? while hindus believe in several idols and worship them ?.If Hazrat Khuwaja Sahib (Radi Allahu Anhu) used to eat and drink with Hindus then what it has to do with celebrating Christmas? .It was celebration of Mawlid-e-Esa A.S, so ur question has no sense..And I don’t get it what you actually tried to say about celebrating Mawlid-e-Hazrat Adam (Allaihe Salam). .U will never get it becz its all about wisdom…Hikmah. Even results have been shown to u..Your Padri do celebrate Mawlid-e-Nabawi (Sallallahu Allaihe Wasallam) as well, now please tell us about the similarity between the two events? .What are u trying to say? Please talk something from Quran and Hadith, is there anything which is against Quran and Sunnah..Tumhari queries se waqai saray baajay bajj rahay hain Tahiri ilmiyatt ke! Aylaan-e-Nabuwwat se pehlay to Tabligh bhi shuru na huwi thi. Tu Dr. Padri ko chahiye tha ke isi tarah 40 saal se pehlay Islam ki tableegh na karta. About allowing Christians into Masajid you said he is following the Sunnah, now why didn’t he followed Sunnah back then? .Ager tumhin hikmat ki tameez hoti tou kabhi is terha kay jahilana sawal na kertay, mera sawal ye kay Aylan-e-Nabuwat 40 years kay baad kernay ki kiya Hikmat thee ? Ab kiyon kay tumhin hikmat ki samajh nahi tou kuch nahi samjh asakta tumhin.

6/21/09 Mohsin (Away) Go google around to know more about their way! About whats wrong in it, lets suppose they don’t do anything unislamic in it but still its unislamic as the hadiths unambiguously says; “Do not imitate the Jews or the Christians”. And your Padri celebrated that event in a typical Christian fashion. Muslims don’t celebrated Mawlid like this and even you know that. Hatt’dharmi aur be’sharmi se dalail paida nahi ho jaye ga so kuch sharm kijiye! .Im asking that thing which is unislamic and Dr Sahab did it, please come up with proper logic proper reference don’t talk irrelevant, highlight that thing that matter which is unislamic so that I can see it and answer it. And I will accept it if it is really unislamic..You were suppose to reply my post which I made on June 13th, from which you took out just 2 paragraphs and started dancing over it. You ignored them all once again and replied over the session of June 14th which was a reply to whatever you said in reply to those 2 paragraphs of mine.

1. Havent replied the whole session of June 13th, except two paragraphs.

You took just two paragraphs out of my posts and then replied it and after I replied your posts and asked you to reply all the posts of June 13th from which you took those two paragraphs. In response you again ignored the posts I made on June 13th! .I had already said that verse and hadith u have quoted are better fit on President zardari so stop crying on 13 june posts, they are all irrelevant, u have took wrong meaning s of Dr Sahab’s acts and pasted verses on him.About Christians definitions and believe I have said that it is their matter, they are responsible for it, we have nothing to do with their false believes.

6/23/09 Naveed Ahmad Bhai Obaid Bhai means the relevant members when he is saying 'Selected'. Don't be bad-gumaan. No irrelevant fights will be tolerated because this thread was not started to create more misunderstandings, in fact it was made to remove the previous ones. You are most welcome to say anything on the topic.

I'll be posting my replies in a few days (1 or 2).

6/23/09 Mohsin (Away) Answer to Sybraite (and His supporters)I m very happy to see that this time u do not come up with all ur non sense talks. I believe that may now u have realize those things which i clarified to u. and u have no more objection query for them. u are not openly expressing it, doesn’t matter at all, but im glad that now u have no more question.

You havent dared to answer the posts of June 13th! Just by weeping or declaring them all irrelevant, it wont become an answer. If you think I misquoted those verses, please quote them, present your argument proves them misquoted. If you think of all that as irrelevant, please quote them, present your argument which proves them irrelevant.

Hehehe, answer kia doon bhai..? u quoted the verses which prohibits the concept friendships with Jews and Christians, can u prove that whatever Dr Sahib is doing is not for betterment Islam rather He is doing friendship with them and working for their religion their betterment ?

If allowing Christians to pray in Masjid is friendship then what will u say when Prophet (صلی اللہ علیھ وآلھ وسلم) did the same act ? Did He (صلی اللہ علیھ وآلھ وسلم) do this act just to raise hand for friendship with them(MAZ-Allah) ?

Dr Sahib eating talking and celebrating Mawlid-e-Esa A.S with christian means doing friendship with them then what will u say to Hazrat Khuwaja Gharib Nawaz R.A act when he used to eat drink live with Hindus..?

If u can answer these questions with some logic and references and prove that those verse can be applied to Dr Sahab then I’ll answer and try to refute them, but by just copy pasting verses and hadiths doesn’t means u have proved ur point of view.And if can’t prove it with logic and proper references then obviously they are irrelevant.

6/23/09 Mohsin (Away) All your posts are based on your personal understanding, irrelevant talk, twisting meanings, ignoring the context, and thus I dont have to reply it. .Come on go ahead and prove it…!! Since u have no answer to my points so there is no other choice for u except to run away by giving such ridiculous statements..In my post I had refuted all ur objections on Dr Sahab, now ur intentions are clear u don’t want their answer and clarification, u just want people to support those fatwas and get away from this personality. This is what ur intentions are all about. U want people to blindly follow those fatwas as u do instead of following Quran and Hadith and Sunnah of Prophet (صلی اللہ علیھ وآلھ وسلم) and Sirah of Prophet (صلی اللہ علیھ وآلھ وسلم), ur main mission is to deviate people from this and make them fatwa parast!.. this is what ur love to Prophet (صلی اللہ علیھ وآلھ وسلم) this is what u are doing for this religion this is what u are doing for AhleSunnat, This is ur Sunniyat!.Aab bataiye lanat ka mustahik wo hai jo Suniyon ko apas mai laraye or apnay pass say jisay chahay suni banaye or jisay chahay suniyat say nikalay, ya lanat ka mustahik wo jo Sunniyat ko ek kernay ki ser tor khoshish keray ? kher phir bhee humin lanat say bachna chahiye or kisi per lanat nahi kerni chahiye..Mai tou ek honay ki baat kerta ho unity ki baat kerta hon, and this is what I have learned from Alahazrat R.A and Dr Sahab. Apnay nay ager intayshar phialana nafrat dalna sikha hai tou ye aap ki kismet..In the end mai yahi kahon ga, ager baat samjhni hai tou her angle say neutral hoker dekhiye, abhi tak aap nay ek side dekhi hai, ab ap Dr Sahab ki kidmaat per nazer daliye 1400 ki kareeb books likheen unhin dekhin, more than 6000 lectures deliver kiye wo suniye Sirif Allah or us kay Rasul (صلی اللہ علیھ وآلھ وسلم) ki nisbat say kisi or nisbat say nahi.

6/23/09 Obaid Khan Ghulam-e-Rasool(Sallalahu Alaihi wa Sallam).You can post your views here,but if the member's post are irrelevant and if the posts can incite fight among the Sunnis,then those posts will be deleted.I have deleted all the posts of Syed Najeeb and the replies to Najeeb's posts in order to avoid fights among sunnis.

6/23/09 Syed bahut accha kiya Obaid bhai aapne.........

6/24/09 Gulam -e- Rasool jazakallah Obaid (the only active mod)i would like a few questions concerning Minhajis am i allowed to do so?orshould i open a new thread for that?ur appreciation would be of utmost helpin clearing doubts

6/24/09 Naveed Ahmad You can post them in AlaHazrat community. As they have named the thread as 'Test for Minhajians'. Go ahead..

6/24/09 Gulam -e- Rasool 4 ^^^it is with regards to minhajis or ha i dont want ot create a mess no fights plzzzzzzzzzjust want to clear my doubts if this community allows

6/24/09 Naveed Ahmad If you don't want to post it there, then create a new thread for it.

6/24/09 Obaid Khan it is with regards to minhajisor hai dont want ot create a messno fightsplzzzzzzzzzjust want to clear my doubtsif this community allows

6/24/09 Mohsin (Away) I think my part of debate is over now, as sybarite has refused to reply my posts. Is there anything left to discuss ?

6/24/09 Naveed Ahmad Sybarite was never serious in replying. He has always been playing with words. He has no authentic proofs to support any of the allegation he raises. A simple example is the allegation he made which he named as 'Bepardagi'.

Even my foot is capable of doing much better work than that my friend. Bring some sensible one, like Irfan Qadri? (I've suggested his name because they call him the Karaamat of Akhtar Raza Khan Sahib )

Those questions are still in my mind, don't worry. I'll write on them the first moment I find free..

6/25/09 Mohsin (Away) Sybraite is back again, with all nonsense and ridiculous talks without any authentic reference (except akhbari totay), he is exposing his jahala again and again... it would be good for him stay keep quiet, but in sahab ko dhon sawar hai fatwon ko portect kernay ki.. shiad kaber mai fatwon ka poocha jai ga in say...

6/26/09 Mohsin (Away) Answer to SybariteAnger frustration ghabrahat bhoklahat is apparent from sybarite’s posts. This is what happens when truth is shown. I have skipped all personal attacks, mocking and abusing part from Sybraite’s posts. So only relevant points are answered.

Rasoolullah (Sallallahu Allaihe Wasallam)’s decision to allowed them to offer their prayers in Masjid-e-Nabawi was not a Hukm-e-Aam! If that was the case than all of the Christians would have been allowed to pray in Masajid not only that specific delegation of Christians.

What evidence do u have for this ? If Christians were banned to pray in masjid then please show me some evidences from Quran and hadith, I will accept it if u provide proper references with correct interpretation. Otherwise it is better to keep personal views with u.

First you says Whatever is ur answer, same answer is from us and now this!

I never expect such idiotic answer from u, that is why I said.

I never said that if there is no place else than Christians are allowed to pray in Masajid. That was a decision made by Rasoolullah (Sallallahu Allaihe Wasallam). Rasoolullah (Sallallahu Allaihe Wasallam) is the Shaa’ray, The Law Maker! Rasoolullah (Sallallahu Allaihe Wasallam) is Mukhtar-e-Kull, so Rasoolullah (Sallallahu Allaihe Wasallam) has the supreme authority and we obviously don’t have it at all! So if Muslims do face such a situation now, they’ll be consulting Muftiyan-e-Kiram for the Shariah ruling in this regard and then will do accordingly.

So it is now become haram to follow Prophet صلی اللہ علیھ وآلھ وسلم sunnah ? we are not denying supreme Qualities of Huzur صلی اللہ علیھ وآلھ وسلم, but who made u the “law maker” ? How can u make the law of banning Christians to pray at masjid ? if this law is from Prophet صلی اللہ علیھ وآلھ وسلم then we all will accept it, but if it is not from Prophet صلی اللہ علیھ وآلھ وسلم, then who gave u the authority to make laws in Religion ?

Anyways you stated allowing Christians to pray in Masajid as rights given to non-muslims, which includes Ihl-e-Hunood as well. So please tell us when we’ll be seeing Dr. Padri singing bhajans with Ihl-e-Hunood and allowing them to pray in Masajid on behalf of rights given to non-muslims?

Don’t make fun of Sunnat-e-Rasul صلی اللہ علیھ وآلھ وسلم, now u are doing Ghustaki in the Bargah of Huzur صلی اللہ علیھ وآلھ وسلم, I warn u that don’t go so blind behind fatwas that may u lose ur emaan by making fun of Sunnat-e-Rasul صلی اللہ علیھ وآلھ وسلم. (Astagfirullah), since only Christians were allowed by Prophet صلی اللہ علیھ وآلھ وسلم to pray then why are u talking of every non-muslim ? I never said this right is for every non muslim, don’t twist my statements!!

U are exposing ur self more and more and getting closer to deobandis attitude and behavior.

Regarding allowing to pray in masjid, Dr Sahab followed Sunnah of Prophet صلی اللہ علیھ وآلھ وسلم that’s it, even a 4 year kid can understand this simple thing which u don’t!

Bachay its you who is presenting that Nijran hadith as a Daleel to allow Christians to pray in Mosque. Now I simply asked you about whether that decision of Rasoolullah (Sallallahu Allaihe Wasallam) was for that delegation only or all of the Christians around the globe. So its nothing but a query over what you’ve claimed! So its your liability to provide the evidence to prove that Rasoolullah (Sallallahu Allaihe Wasallam)’s decision was not only for those particular Christians of Nijran but for all the Christians around the globe even in that era.

6/26/09 Mohsin (Away) Yes we gave the prove regarding Nijran, now it is u who believe (not we) that all other Christians are banned, so u have to prove ur statement, it is not our believe Mr! It is ur believe, so u have to prove ur statements, our job is over, we have shown u the Sunnah of Prophet صلی اللہ علیھ وآلھ وسلم if u know the importance of Sunnat-e-Rasul صلی اللہ علیھ وآلھ وسلم if u know and believe in high virtues and merits and status Prophet صلی اللہ علیھ وآلھ وسلم then u must accept what Prophet صلی اللہ علیھ وآلھ وسلم did, not what ur ridiculous fatwa have said, and not what ur other Ulama are doing! Prophet صلی اللہ علیھ وآلھ وسلم first then Ulamas, and u are give more priority to Ulamas as compare to Prophet صلی اللہ علیھ وآلھ وسلم. (Maz-Allah)

I already elaborated on what circumstances Rasoolullah (Sallallahu Allaihe Wasallam) allowed those Christians to pray in Masjid-e-Nabawi. And we the Sunni cant imagine Ashaab-e-Kiram (Ridwanullahe Ta’la Allaihe Ajmain) building a place to worship someone else than Allah.

Lol, Sahaba-e-Karam on the order of Prophet صلی اللہ علیھ وآلھ وسلم allowed Christians to pray in Masjid-e-Nabavi (the most precious place in the universe) according to their own way who believe Esa A.S as Son of God (Maz-Allah), and u are saying that it is not possible for Sahaba to build separate place for them on the order of Prophet صلی اللہ علیھ وآلھ وسلم …!! Brother seriously ur talks have no sense at all!

Then tell me if it was banned to make a separate place for Christians to worship, then why u make separate places churches in Pakistan for them ? Now it has become legal which u thing is illegal for Sahaba ??

Your bawla Padri invited the Christians to celebrate Christmas which is a Catholic ritual.

Dr Sahab celebrated Mawlid-e-Esa A.S to tell them that we also believe in Hazrat Esa A.S and not only in Hazrat Esa A.S but all Prophets.

2. The Christians of Nijran intended to stay for few days and they had no place to offer their prayers,

Whereas

The Christians whom your Padri invited came to celebrate Christmas and had their Churches where they could offer their prayers.

This is absolutely foolish and wrong interpretation that there was no place, this is not the case infact Mr Sybraite is now trying to ignore to hide the supreme qualities of Prophet صلی اللہ علیھ وآلھ وسلم His Ikhalaq attitude kindness hospitality and things like that, I feel sorry that this person is gone so blind behind fatwas that now he is trying ignore the beautiful Sirat of Prophet صلی اللہ علیھ وآلھ وسلم. Strange!!

3. Rasoolullahu (Sallallahu Allaihe Wasallam) told them the truth about Hazrat Isa (Allaihe Salam) and refuted the Christian belief that Jesus is the Son of God, right infront of those Christians.

Whereas

Your dramay’baz Padri didn’t say a word on the Islamic belief of Hazrat Isa (Allaihe Salam) neither he refuted the Christian belief. Infact he celebrated Christmas which is purely a Catholic ritual, the birth of the Son of God, according to Christian customs.

Since Christians from nijran started debate on the issue so Prophet صلی اللہ علیھ وآلھ وسلم refuted their false believes. But in the case of Dr Sahab if Christians would have started debate as did by people of Nijran then obviously Dr Sahab would have refuted their believes on the spot, but nothing such happen so Dr Sahab followed the order of Quran from verse [16:125], that is order of Wisdom. More clarification is in further posts.

Your Padri not only kept his mouth shut, but also accompanied the Chrisitians in celebrating a non-Islamic ritual.

Since Christians donot start any debate so their nothing like mubahila.

Now if you say that what your Padri did was according to Sunnah, then there are lots of things which he did against the Sunnah.

Yes of course he is following Sunnah (in the case of allowing to pray in masjid) while u are continuously making fun of it. Which is very sad.

He kept his mouth shut and didn’t rectify the Christians about their false belief concerning Hazrat Isa (Allaihe Salam),

If he would have said nothing (there or later) then how that Christian embraced with Islam? this is a big slap on ur face, any u’ll feel its pain whenever u think about Christians..

Anyways, you’ve presented a report where Rasoolullah (Sallallahu Allaihe Wasallam) allowed a delegation of Christians from Ethiopia to STAY in Masjid-e-Nabawi. I hope you know the difference between Staying and Praying.

Lol for Nijranis it was allowed to pray but for this group from Ethiopia it is become haram ..and this hadith shows more care from Prophet صلی اللہ علیھ وآلھ وسلم for them, becz here Prophet صلی اللہ علیھ وآلھ وسلم is personally taking care of them and u are saying Prophet صلی اللہ علیھ وآلھ وسلم banned them to pray…??? So do u mean that there was a separate place available for them to pray ? if yes then give some evidence, if no, then why Prophet صلی اللہ علیھ وآلھ وسلم allowed Nijranis to pray and why He صلی اللہ علیھ وآلھ وسلم banned Christians from Ethiopia to pray ?

6/26/09 Mohsin (Away) Rasoolullah (Sallallahu Allaihe Wasallam) did tied up a non-Muslim (who then later accepted Islam) on the pillar of Masjid-e-Nabawi.

As per you saying they aren’t unaware of this Sunnah and yet they are ignoring what you said to be the best way to tell the truth! Why is that so?

I m not sitting in their heart that I know everything about them, don’t ask childish questions, go and ask them why is that so ?

6/26/09 Mohsin (Away) And kid, learn about the basic rule of debates! You are the claimant here, not me! Its you who claimed it to be a Sunnah not me! So its your liability to prove it a Sunnah not mine

Everybody can see my stance here and then can easily judge what I am saying. Its you who is ignoring everything else and concluding things by taking statements totally out of their contexts.

Everybody can see whats Dr Sahab Stance is on these issues and with what wisdom he is doing this and how much he is successful in it, but it is people like u who are ignoring everything and concluding things by taking acts totally out of their true meanings intentions and Wisdom behind them.

That is my query! How praying in Masajid will clear the misconception among non-Muslims? Is it like they’ll come and offer their prayers and things will get clear to them? Or its like they’ll come to Muslims and discuss about the teachings of Islam? Out of everything you find “allowing Christians to pray in Masajid” as the true teaching of Islam! Isnt telling them the truth about Hazrat Isa (Allaihe Salam) a true teaching of Islam?

Similarly as with case of Nijran, while according to ur interpretation Prophet صلی اللہ علیھ وآلھ وسلم allowed them to pray so that they know about Islam about believes in Islam and come towards Islam. These are ur wording in 13th june post:

6/26/09 Mohsin (Away) If you look the whole event and other reports from ahadith its evident that Huzoor (Sallallahu Allaihe Wasallam) allowed them to pray because they came to know about Islam and its beliefs and if they were not allowed to pray they would have gone back to Nijran without knowing the truth about Islam. And for that, as a wise and humble approach to call them towards Islam Rasoolullah (Sallallahu Allaihe Wasallam) allowed them to pray.

Last time I forgotten to highlight ur last comment, Read it again brother, Similar approach is adopted By Dr Sahab to call them towards Islam.This is the second and last time I copy paste ur answer, If cant understand what “u” have said then I think u need a medical treatment.

You invites them to celebrate their ritual which is totally against the belief of Tawheed,

So u mean celebrating mawlid-e-Esa A.S is against tawheed ..? can u prove it ?

then you call them Believers whereas Quran declares them non-believers,

I asked this from person who is associated with minhaj-ul-Quran he said:He declared them in sense that they BELIEVE in Angels, BELIEVE in God, BELIEVE in the Books and also BELIEVE on Prophets. After that, this is a separate discussion that in what manner they BELIEVE them. But they do BELIEVE all these things unlike the Atheists and Hindus etc

If u think this is wrong then please do correct us, but with references which are relevant.

and then you proudly allows them to pray in Masajid.

So whats the problem with u if we follow Sunnat-e-Rasul صلی اللہ علیھ وآلھ وسلم ?

Ofcouse he would’ve have been searching the truth, either from Dr. Padri or anyone else.

6/26/09 Mohsin (Away) But that guy accepted Islam because he came to know about Islam by whatever means. Be it Dr. Padri’s speeches/books or any other medium. But the thing is he got to know about the teachings of Islam, and by the grace of Allah he understood the teaching and then accepted Islam.

I have already cleared it, now Ask all these questions in the bargah of Prophet صلی اللہ علیھ وآلھ وسلم. Becz we are following Him صلی اللہ علیھ وآلھ وسلم.

6/26/09 Mohsin (Away) Please tell us how my words proves that those Christians of Nijran been thaught about the teachings of Islam by allowing them to pray?

As u said in the end that And for that, as a wise and humble approach to call them towards Islam Rasoolullah (Sallallahu Allaihe Wasallam) allowed them to pray so according to u allowing them to pray is a humble approach to bring them towards Islam, if they will come closer to it then definitely they will learn more and more about it. This is what Prophet صلی اللہ علیھ وآلھ وسلم approach and ours approach. And u have already seen the results.

delegation stayed for 2-3 days and discussion was underway all this time. Rasoolullah (Sallallahu Allaihe Wasallam) told them about the true teachings of Islam. Isnt that sufficient enough for you to understand the whole thing? Rasoolullah (Sallallahu Allaihe Wasallam) told them about the correct belief regarding Hazrat Isa (Allaihe Salam)

If Dr sahab had said nothing on this, then how that person embraced Islam ? since u accept that he must have listen speeches then why are u asking it again and again, Dr Sahab have said everything, and he said on appropriate proper time when it is needed to be explained, that is why that person came to accept islam.

About fatwas, I’d just say that they are from the giants of Ahle’Sunnah

So it doesnot means they are equal to Quran and Hadith. Can u prove Dr Sahab wrong from Quran and Hadith ? or can u support ur fatwas from Quran and Hadith ?

6/26/09 Mohsin (Away) By the way, as you’ve talked about Ashaab-e-Kiram (Ridwanullahe Ta’ala Allaihe Ajmain)’s period, can you provide any such thing done by Ashaab-e-Kiram (Ridwanullahe Ta’la Allaihe Ajmain) in order to call the non-Muslims towards Islam?

Christians Started debate then Prophet صلی اللہ علیھ وآلھ وسلم refute them and call them for Mubahila. Yes I accept from verse Mubahila was offered by Prophet صلی اللہ علیھ وآلھ وسلم, but debate munazira was started by them. More detail is in further posts.

Well this is all useless which thing start first point is Christian from nijran came and debated, while here in case of Dr Sahab Christian do not came to have debate.

Why not in a Islamic way, like he celebrates Mawlid-e-Mustafa (Sallallahu Allaihe Wasallam)?

What is that thing which is unislamic in it? Highlight it and prove it unislamic from Quran and Hadith.

Arranging such a gathering, celebrating their event according to their customs, declaring them Believers, allowing them to pray in Masajid, and yet no words on Islamic teachings about the one whose birthday they are celebrating! Do I need to tell you about amar bil maroof wa nahi al’munkar. The underlined part is missing my boy!

The statement doesn’t end there; it goes on further. Let me quote the rest of it;

and dispute with them by way of that which, that is, by way of that [manner of] disputation which, is best, such as calling [them] to God by way of His signs and calling [them] to His definitive arguments.

So if Dr Sahab didn’t call them towards islam didn’t told it teaching than how that Christian came and accept Islam? wo kia baghir parhay paghir sunay asiay he agia ? u accept that he might listen lectures or read books, so what he found in those speeches and books that he came and accept Islam… ? use common sense

AND THEN given the formula about the manner of disputation which is to call them to Allah by His signs and by His definitive arguments.

That’s it, is kay elawa aap nay sirif bazari baatin personal attacks mocking abusing he ki hai jo aap ka pasandidah kam hai jab ap kay pass jawab nahi hota, or koi kaam ki baat nahi ki. Next time I’ll only reply that thing which is new and didn’t answered, those which are already answered I will not touch them again. Becz u don’t need any answer like deobandis do not care about answer, u are just here for fun just to express ur hatred which is increasing day by day as Dr Sahab is getting famous day by day.

Yes we do ask, and we have asked for this, So whatever we are its not from over mind and thinking this is what Ulama has teached us. But this does not means that if they say something wrong then we accept it too. and this verse never say that Fatwa is equal to Quran and Hadith.

Mujhay hergiz ap say ye ummed na thee kay aap bhee ye language use kerin geen. It really hurts when Sunni use such language, it is demaging our image badly. is this what u have learned from those fatwas ? is this what u have learned from Alahazrat R.A ? U should feel shame on this!

As I said kai Fatawas are not taken from any story books ' MuaazAllah ' They are based on the importance of the right interpretation of the Holy Qur’an....

I'll post my replies in an hour time as "it's the time to Load Shedding".6/26/09Naveed AhmadWhat can one do when you go so blind after some ridiculous Fatwas? Anyways, as per your routine you were desperately waiting for these slaps so here they are.

I have replied to this ‘edited’ statement that please bring those cuttings. But I agree, the work you always bring is mostly an outcome of the ‘hard-work’ of 20 to 25 long years so I can understand your situation. But unfortunately the black sheep who have been doing this since so long haven’t yet got successful to deviate any true Sunni from the right path Alhamdulillaah. Example of thousands of Muftiyan-e-Karam and Ulema-o-Mashaikh from whole world are in front of your ‘Wahhabism Stripped’ eyes. This statement included some more words but some really ‘responsible’ men excluded them to scream out an allegation out of it. Let’s experience the original wording as well.

Now here was your first slap served in a plate of some hidden words which were not hidden from the beginning but some disgusting ones just like you my kaka, showed their kharnaasi and changed the things to misguide people away from the righteous path.6/26/09Naveed Ahmad2. Is Tazeem-e-Mustafa (Sallallahu Allaihe Wasallam), Tazeem-e-Sahaba really minor to minhajians?

Ahh *Sigh*. Are you really that kharnaas or you are trying to act like one? Well this Tashbeeh answer was given by Sami Bhai (Your grandpa in knowledge). And to me and every other sensible person, it totally clarifies the stand. For an example, tell me, if I name you as ‘Lion’ (Although people will experience this much coward lion for the first time), then I would say that due to that ‘bravery’ in you to stand this much ‘zillat’ I’ve done this mistake of calling you a lion, I’ll literally not address you as a ‘wild beast’ while calling you a ‘Lion’, though that beast quality is also an attribute of a Lion. I hope you can get this simple thing now and if not, then take a gun and blow your empty head my friend that’s the simplest solution to your filthy idiotic head.

3. Just go and ask the Doc to official write the Ulema for this. Just simply write and official invitation to those Ulema and ask them to take oath in public.

I’ve told you numerous times that he DOESN’T have that much ‘Wehla’ time to talk to such craps like Kaukab. Go take your own filthy tongue and speak to them and if not interested then we least care about that my friend. He doesn’t even cause 1% harm to a glorious organization like Minhaj-ul-Quran International. I don’t even call kaukab a pious man, let alone an Alim.6/26/09Naveed Ahmad4. Ala Hazrat didn’t issue the fatwa of takfir againt Ismail Dehalvi because of the rumors that he repented at the time of his death.

Thanks for presenting this shit of yours in front of me. Let’s look into your words now.

"Ala Hazrat didn’t issue the fatwa of takfir againt (against) Ismail Dehalvi because of the rumors".

My Lord! Help this chap through the Sadqah of your esteemed beloved. Man you’ve already lost it . Now go and sing nursery rhymes, this religious talk is just not for your kind. Get lost dude! I’m fed up of your childish stuff you present all the time. Please bring Irfan Qadri so that we can have some idea of Tajashariyah’s karaamat .

5. Pir Karam Ali Shah Sahib

He didn’t call them Kafir. Keep crying your whole life out on this. Read his book “Tehzeer-un-Naas Meri Nazar Mein”. Bring one single quotation that he called him a Kafir . I’ll change my mind in his regard then.6/26/09Naveed Ahmad6. Irshad Hussain Muhadas Rampur

Out of whole long undeniable reply, you found this very thing to raise your finger on. Shame on bloody you. Keep crying, it casts a least effect on me. I’m still finding about his history, I’ll come up with some facts in this regards later but some more important works are in progress, which will definitely tease your bloody small mind hardly and strongly (One out of them is already released with the name ‘Frustration or Jealousy’, dare replying to it).

7. Pir Jamat Ali Shah Muhadas Alipuri

Why would he disagree with the Imam-e-Ahl-e-Sunnah? Even Dr. Sahib affirms his Fatwa in that regard and calls those chaps as Gustakhan-e-Rasool. Go and get lost in some sh** dude.

8. Sheikh-ul-Islam Qamr-ud-Din Sayalwi Sahib

Still my reply is the same, which I gave above. Again the same suggestion for you my friend .6/26/09Naveed Ahmad9. In which category of Mujtahid this Dr. Padri falls in?

I forgot to reply this earlier, thanks for reminding. Ok stop waiting now.

. Although he stops people from calling him Mujtahid and Mujaddid due to his extreme Ajazi. Go cry with your 2 takay k molvis through out your life, the whole world considers him even greater than that. I’m not opening the words of Sheikh-ul-Islam Qamar-ud-Din Sialvi Sahib here, you’d have died right there LoL.

11. Be’pardagi in Minhaj

There is no be’pardagi in Minhaj-ul-Quran International (learn the whole name you bloody jerk). If some foreigners come from different thoughts, we can’t force them to wear Hijabs. Get lost with your extremist jerk-ness. This is the most pious organization on the face of the earth right now and I shout it out loud. Go to your 2 takay k molvis and scream this thing in front of them.

And one more thing. Whenever you talk about this so called ‘Bepardagi’, a teacher who used to teach us at college, comes in my mind right away. Once he was teaching us and he told us about an incident. He told us that once his sister who was a couple of years younger than him (his age was not less than 30), once sent her cousin who was a 4-5 years child to the shop to get her something. When he saw that, he became angry and warned his sister not to do that again, not even to talk to him (4 years old child) again. And he was a Wahhabi for your kind information. This is why I call you a 'Wahhabi Impressed Figure', bloody extremist.6/26/09Naveed AhmadFear from that second when I'll expose of the reality of that so called Munazira which you made a point at No. 10. I'm working on it. InshAllaah I'll write on it when I get the complete figures about it.

By the way I'm tired of slapping your face again and again and watching your extreme childish horse shit again and again. I really can make an even longer list of the things which you even didn't dare to touch (at least you showed your stupidity on rest of them). Bring Irfan Qadri and go prepare something for your exams. Trust me that would be more fruitful for you and in fact better for you because by posting things you are doing nothing else than ruining the image of Ahl-ul-Sunnah and AlaHazrat too. I really feel bad for you my BROTHER!6/27/09Obaid KhanSyed NajeebWhen you get the hard copy of that fatwa(i dont really know what kind of fatwa is that,but if that fatwa is as stupid as the above mentioned ones,then u can post it here),then u can post in here.But till then,lets not make it another issue.

.

So I request you to please delete your post.Because it will incite a fight among sunnis.

.One of the member of your very own community(Rauf,if I am not wrong) refuted Ali Razvi(When ALi Razvi labelled Mufti Akmal Sahab as Kafir,non-sunni and what not) and posted the fatwa/teaching of the Great Ala Hazrat RA,in which Ala Hazrat talks about respecting Scholars.So think before you speak and you know what,I think you should concentrate on your exams now,because I see that now your doing nothing but posting crap.Hadd hai Be'Ghairti ki.And now decide yourself as to who has been refuted by Ala Hazrat RA..You can call me names I wont mind, that’s the best you tahiris can do. But yeah calling me brother or buddy is off the edge, so please don’t. And don’t you talk about Quran-o-Hadith. We all just saw you how good you’ve been in the discussion so far!

.I m sorry to say that for me,unlike you, Quran n hadith comes first,and not those stupid fatwas.These days,every Tom,Dick n Harry wants to get famous and the easiest thing to do that is to issue a fatwa against a famous personality/scholar.And hence every laymen is issuing fatwas ,and what else they want,they earn some money as well(200- 300 bucks for a fatwa).But you must be aware of the fact that those fatwas have not done any thing,let me repeat anything,which is apparent from the fact that MQI has now offices in more than 90 countries and millions of people all around the world listen the speeches of Dr Sahab.About a million people attend the Aalmi-Milad conference every year,which just proves that those stupid fatwas have not done any thing,other than helping those muftis earn some money.first | < previous | next > | lastreport spamreply« back to topics

6/27/09 Obaid Khan Sybarite--A Neo WahabiThat’s not something new coming out of your kind. I’ve seen deobandis running away in a similar fashion. First they claim, accuse and then run off! There is nothing to doubt about it. You can ask Naveed when I arrived in that discussion and who re-initiated that thread. The posts are still there if you bother to look. So spare the lame judgement.

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I havent seen you guys confronting Wahabis.And these days,you have proposed another stupidity called Mods = Project *Cleaning* .And you are preventing us from confronting them in other communities by engaging us in these useless bloody fatwas.BTW,you guys should are seriously are Neo Wahabis .

If you really do have better things (that is sleeping as reported in your profile under activities) then you shouldn’t be bringing this up in the first place. First you talk about a thing and when asked about it you say I got better things to do. Great! .Ahh,now I see why you were paying so many visits to my profile.So this is how you spend your time,right!!

6/27/09 Obaid Khan Neo Wahabi SybariteSee you have enough time to comment over it again and again and yet you don’t dare to put down such a list *sigh*.

.

Same is applicable to you as well.Haan,if you dont have the answers to those questions,then you can escape easily by using the above tactics!!!

Kaafi zabardast hai apke ''Men of Knowledge''.Just have a look at the last line...kya qoob hai apke Men of Knowledge......The only reason why we dint replied to your last line in the same tone/way is just because of our Sheikh.And we know very well what kind of Sheikh/Murshid yours is.

6/27/09 Mohsin (Away) Answer to Sybarite (Mawlid-e-Esa in Islamic Way)A member from Minhaj-ul-Quran confirms me detail about Celebrations of Mawlid-e-Esa A.S, it was started of with recitation of Holy Quran and then Bible then Naat-e-Rasul صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم was recited and then christmas Song.

6/28/09 Naveed Ahmad Bachay you've answered only the older queries and even not all of them! First answer the posts in response to your crap, then answer all the unanswered queries then expect a reply from me.

Are you at drugs? Again see the list of the newest questions you have posted. Moronic shit will never end from your side I guess, isn't it?

U know what.People like you should be banned from using orkut.Or atleast please do a favor by not posting ur nonsensical crap.Just take a look at my post and then decide whom I addressed in my last posts .

And yes,thanks again for showing what kind of Sheikh you have and what kind of teaching he imparts to his Mureeds first | < previous | next > | last report spam reply « back to topics

In reply to that I said what you quoted. Now even a little kid can understand what I replied and how I replied. I challenge you to present the word Haram in my post. I challenge you to present the word banned in my post. I challenge you to present where and how I made a LAW or even tried so. Ager haram nahi banned nahi tou phir kiya hai bhai ? well keep reading I have answered it in the end.

The thing we are discussing here that whether Christians are allowed to pray in Masajid generally or not. The argument is about whether what Rasoolullah (Sallallahu Allaihe Wasallam) decided can be taken as general or not and you’re dragging this crap into this.

I wont let you run away on this one now. If you’re a ligetimate child prove which of my words presents me as the Law Maker,

This is what u said about Sunnat-e-Rasul (صلی اللہ علیھ وآلھ وسلم) on june 20:Rasoolullah (Sallallahu Allaihe Wasallam)’s decision to allowed them to offer their prayers in Masjid-e-Nabawi was not a Hukm-e-Aam!

I quoted the above crap of yours and then replied so its not very hard to understand what I was talking about. You clearly said that allowing Christians to pray in Masajid shows the rights given to Non-Muslims. You didn’t restricted that to Christians by any means, but used the word Non-Muslims which includes Hindus as well. And now asking me why am I talking about every non-muslims!

What a big duffer this man is! The whole story has been come to an end and this person is asking Zulaikha mard hai ya auraat! ….. Idiot we are discussing Christians Non Muslims or other Non muslims like hindus? See in which context i have used word Non Muslim!

Another daleel which I presented that we have no such reports in the whole history of Islam where Rasoolullah (Sallallahu Allaihe Wasallam) or any of the Ashaab-e-Kiram (Radi Allahu Anhu) allowed Christians to pray in Masajid and that makes that Nijran report exclusive.

But he did not allow them to have their regular Sunday services there. This was a permission for one specific occasion in a special case.The Mosque is the place for the worship of One God (Tawhid). It is not suitable for any service that may have Shirk in it.

whereas Prophet (صلی اللہ علیھ وآلھ وسلم) showed His (صلی اللہ علیھ وآلھ وسلم) supreme qualities of Iklaaq tolerance kindness to non muslims just to bring them closer to true religion even they were doing shirk laykin maksad itna azeem tha kay their shirk doesn’t matter at all it doesn’t effect to any one, not only allow these Christians but tied kuffar with the pillar of Masjid-e-Nabavi just becz of this reason… where as yusuf sahab said:the Mosque was the only place for any gathering.

Now what yousuf sahab will say on this act ? Why Prophet (صلی اللہ علیھ وآلھ وسلم) kept kuffar prisoner in Masjid ? if it is only for gathering ? is there no other place for them ?

Finally Mr Sybarite have accepted that allowing Christians to pray in Masjid is neither haram nor banned (Prohibited). Here are the comments of Sybarite for reference:

6/28/09 Mohsin (Away) Reference No. 1In reply to that I said what you quoted. Now even a little kid can understand what I replied and how I replied. I challenge you to present the word Haram in my post. I challenge you to present the word banned in my post. I challenge you to present where and how I made a LAW or even tried so.

Reference No. 2Again a very khabees attempt. Bachay zara jaldi se dikhao where I said it Haram. Nowhere! Show me where I said that Rasoolullah (Sallallahu Allaihe Wasallam) took care of those Ehtiopian Christians and then BANNED them to pray? Nowhere!

Sybarite believes that there is no report no evidence from History of Islam in Sahaba-e-Karam’s period so there is silence on this issue.Another daleel which I presented that we have no such reports in the whole history of Islam where Rasoolullah (Sallallahu Allaihe Wasallam) or any of the Ashaab-e-Kiram (Radi Allahu Anhu) allowed Christians to pray in Masajid and that makes that Nijran report exclusive.

Lets see what Hadiths says on things where we found Silence (Neither Halal nor Haram)

Aqah Karim (صلی اللہ علیھ وآلھ وسلم) said: What Allah has made lawful in His Book is halal and what He has forbidden is haram, and that concerning which He is silent is allowed as His favor. So accept from Allah His favor, for Allah is not forgetful of anything. He then recited, "And thy Lord is not forgetful.” (19:64)

,Reference:(This hadith was reported by al-Hakim, classified as sahih (sound), and quoted by al-Bazzar.)

6/28/09 Mohsin (Away) Salman al-Farsi reported that when the Messenger of Allah (peace be on him) was asked about animal fat, cheese, and fur, he replied, "The halal is that which Allah has made lawful in His Book and the haram is that which He has forbidden, and that concerning which He is silent He has permitted as a favor to you."

Reference:(Reported by al-Tirmidhi and Ibn Majah)

This as “another” prove for permitting Christians to Pray in Masjid just to bring them Closer to Religion (and I have already answered tht they were allowed to pray so when they come and see Muslims way of praying and Muslims loving each other Just for Allah and Rasul (صلی اللہ علیھ وآلھ وسلم) and they see the simplicity of religion Islam so in this way they will learn a lot about Islam and definitely get impressed with it as Kuffar prisoners got impressed when they were tied with Pillars of Masjid-e-Nabavi).

(With due respect to all the other respected Ulema who have Ilmi Ikhtilaf this thing which I'm going to write is for those who are just crying out their own stupidity since so many years)

My mum often tell me about a Kahaawat which was used in her childhood by my Grandpa that "Kuttay bhonkday rehnden, raahi laghday rehnden".. first | < previous | next > | last report spam reply « back to topics

6/28/09 Naveed Ahmad Api look at it with a normal neutral eye. We are doing nothing as compared to what Sybarite is doing.

Secondly, even if we are doing something - it's here on 'Orkut' a normal public community. But once you come to Lahore I'll show you the things these people are doing. In this era when Islam is facing so much conflicts, their soul purpose is to deviate people from Dr. Sahib. Base foundation of their speeches is this soul mission. The taunts and abuse they do is far more harmful for Deen than this normal discussion we are doing here.

People like you, Toqeer, Adeel Bhai, Ammara Sis., and many many others are just proned victims of this flood of Bad-Niyati. Please wake up and hold the Daaman of the Awliya who appreciate this 90% of Ahl-ul-Sunnah and not that 10% out of it. Again recall the statement of Hazoor Qudwat-ul-Awliya and do at least think about your Nisbats with Hazoor Ghauth-ul-Wara. I'm really upset about you and a few more people whom I really care from the cores of my heart. May Allaah show you the right path very soon. May Allaah bless you the Ziyarat-e-Pak of Hazoor Sarwar-e-Konain and lead you to the righteous path through His exalted tawassul. Ameen!

6/29/09 Naveed Ahmad Najeeb

An advice: Don't discuss anything regarding his eminence Syyedi AlaHazrat RadiAllaahoAnho. But whatever you want to talk else than that, would be highly appreciated.

.Such type of lines fall in the category of disrespect.Avoid such lines.Consider this as a warning.Like I said earlier,only selected members are allowed to post in this particular thread/topic.Hence your posts and the reply to your posts have been deleted..

6/30/09 Obaid Khan And Minarye Noor is not an extremist like sybarite.So stop fighting with him on this issue.Not here atleast.

6/30/09 Mohsin (Away) Sybarite is now in extreme frustrations and Bhoklahat, after getting slap again and again he has totally gone mad and started using his family language, his language shows where he live & how he talk with his father mother and other family members.. jis ko apnay baap per shak ho usay dosray bhee aisay he nazer atay hai.

Act of allowing Christians to pray in masjid has been proved to be sunnah, and if we dont find any reference from Sahaba's period it doesnt means they have ignored it. Sybarite believes their is Silence on it, so i also from this angle proved that what Shariah says on matters on which we found silence.

So in both angles Sybarite got full slap. from every angle this point is proved from Quran and Hadith, but these Fatwa and molvi parats hardcore extremist who are in the front line to demage and destroy the name of Alahazrat R.A, will never succeed in their mission! they will never succeed in destroying Sunnah of Holy Prophet صلی اللہ علیھ وآلھ وسلم, destroying Sirah and beautifull Ikhlaaq of Prophet صلی اللہ علیھ وآلھ وسلم.

These are the actual Munafiq, worst than Wahabi and Deobandis, becz they are demaging Aqaeed of Ahl-e-Sunnat in the name of Alahazrat R.A.

May Allah save us all from this Fitnah of Molvi and fatwa parasti which let people to deny Beautiful sunnah and Ikhlaaq of Prophet صلی اللہ علیھ وآلھ وسلم.

This is my last reply as there is nothing left in Sybarite posts except his family Language. So these people deserve to be talked in their language, becz they only understand this way, and I am sorry to say that I dont know how to deal them in this language.

I will not check Sybarite post and replies anymore from now onwords.

Fi Amanillahi Wa Rasulihi.

6/30/09 Naveed Ahmad And I suppose he's now quiet on my answers too. He's left with nothing but his Zidd! May Allaah guide him through. Some replies on this page have been deleted or are under review. first | < previous | next > | last report spam reply « back to topics

7/1/09 Naveed Ahmad So here goes your crap in the place where it deserves to be, yea you got it right, Dust Bin after being replied.

The above quoted statement of yours is not in that very paragraph which I quoted. And about putting veils, Huzoor Taaj’ush-Shariah replied himself. Now you could’ve mentioned Allama Kokab Noorani’s name in this regard and could’ve excluded Huzoor Taaj’ush-Shariah just as you did now, but you didn’t.

Hey I really forgot that you have the habit of eating 'Paki Pakaayi'. And the habit has grown to this much limit. I mean, enough man! Stop this Wahhabism now you Neo-Wahhabi . And trust me, you still haven't got the meaning of 'Putting veils' . Don't worry I'll tell you how.

Then when you were smacked with Huzoor Taaj’ush-Shariah’s verdict you took another turn and kept on saying that Huzoor Taaj’ush-Shariah been deceived and all that. In reply to that you got another smack on your face by Huzoor Taaj’ush-Shariah’s audio clip. So your loota’pana is clearly evident from your posts bachay.

Yeah I said that. I still stand by that. He should be giving Fatwa because he has got knowledge. But he has put veils on it. What can I do when you can't understand a simple line in English?

To be frank, his verdicts mean much lesser to me than thee verdicts if Hazrat Syyedina Qudwat-ul-Awliya, mind it! See the thread in this community with the name 'Peer For his Mureed'. Those written verdicts were really based on tempered words. You are still failed to give the original references for that verdict. Bring them on, then we'll discuss about the health of that verdict. About the Audio Clip, I could hear something like "Muta'addad logo se yeh sun'nay mein aa raha hai". Man! Since when has this Suni Sunaayi things have come into the Fatawa? Disgusting seriously. He should have done some work before saying that Yahoodiyon ko anay ki ijaazat di and all. Who allowed Jews? There you see the health of that Audio clip as well.

7/1/09 Obaid Khan @Najeeb

I am literally ROFL.............Kya qoob kaha yaar aapne......Hats off to you

9/12/09 Naveed Ahmad By the way, can anyone see anything like "Fakhr-e- Al-Azhar" or "Akhtar Raza Khan" on the award shield normally shown by some people who claim that Akhtar Sahib has won this title recently? If yes then please inform me that I should get my eyes checked. Or else... LoL, no, nothing.

And also please confirm that is that wonderful 'Visit' described in the same way in some Egyptian or at least Al-Azhari magazine as well? We'll be waiting.

Apr 19 Obaid Khan Alright,go ahead,but please make sure that it doesnt get ugly.MAke sure that our scholars are not abused.Also keep in mind the teachings of Shaikh ul Islam,he doesnt even insult ''non-sunnis'',whereas here we are discussing about ''Sunnis''.

May 23 Naveed Ahmad @ Obaid Bhai

Bro 'Scholars' have never been abused here in this community =). first | < previous | next > | last report spam reply « back to topics