"You have to be a badass if you ride a giant seahorse." -Grant Morrison on why Aquaman is badass
"Game Over, Snively. ...Thanks for playing." -Dr. Eggman, Sonic Universe #40
"I'm stinking of animal blood...As of now I'm a vegetarian. And this is Bat-cow." -Damian Wayne

There isn't really one. Judging from all the videos I've seen, even characters that were considered the weakest by Asian players like Kim and Ralf were played well recently. A lot of characters are underplayed and I'd say the game balance is fine as it is. Raiden's drop kick is fine, it's just the anywhere juggles after the second drop kick is disgusting. If drop kick itself gets nerfed, Raiden would lose an interesting dynamic of his game and he'd be a watered down 98 Shermie that could more easily do a hitconfirm from low light attacks into command throw. It's the EX Shoulder Tackles after the Drop Kicks that are dumb. For K', he just needs to lose Ein Trigger > Second Shell > Minute Spike > Narrow Spike > Crow Bites in a meterless, normal bnb. If he has to use meter to get his loop in to do the damage then it's fine be it EX meter or Drive Meter so he'd have to set up a Crow Bites drive cancel into Minute Spike or EX Minute Spike in order to do the silly loop.

Elizabeth is just a basic fundamental character that could anywhere juggle almost anything into super but comparatively amongst the cast she doesn't actually do that much damage. Shen Woo has been seen quite often most probably due to his basic zoning properties and the ability to do big yet easy HD Combos as a comeback factor. Duolon I thought would have been played more due to the loctests but he's not as popular as the other characters, most probably due to the fact that he doesn't hit hard and his mix up after rekkas isn't that scary at all. He also could be punished after rekka > teleport on block. Kyo, Iori, and Andy are just basic easy characters that everyone else could just pick up easily. Kyo's only abusable moves are HCB+K on block and EX Orochinagi being about 1 or 2 frames. I'd say Iori's Command Throw is being underplayed since he should be able to do a j.D or j.B hit reset after it and perhaps have a run under attempt after it. Just need to test and confirm, at least he has a j.4B that hits everyone on crouch unlike in 02. Iori should have a stronger mix up game because of his command throw and his j.4B but no one really uses him for it, only has a character with a big easy HD Combo.

The most used characters currently are K', Raiden, Shen Woo, and Kula. Runners up are Andy, Kyo, and Iori. Due to the small pool of XIII players, there has been a insurgence of Maxima, Ralf, Kim, and Ash play recently; Maxima being the most popular of the group of characters. Seems that Maxima's df.C hits most crouchers now so he could do cr.b, cr.a xx df.c xx vapor canon and he could net good damage from a meterless bnb. Helps that he could do his full jump D during a hop and cr.b, cr.a outside of KOF XI, and that expands his high low mix up. He could also simply do cr.b, cr.a xx ex vapor canon > df.C xx vapor canon/dp+k. He could also just do an empty hop command throw that has minimal start up and it corner carries and has good oki afterwards or drive cancel into big damage and still have decent oki afterwards. Icing on the cake is that all of his guard points are much better and his Neomax is fast as anything and kills anything full screen and does big chip.

So many off tangents. tl;dr, the current tier based on character popularity (not actual potential) be something like:
K'
Raiden
Shen Woo
Kula
Kyo
Iori
Andy
Everyone else

I'd say Iori's Command Throw is being underplayed since he should be able to do a j.D or j.B hit reset after it and perhaps have a run under attempt after it.

Yes, hyper hop D, run under works.

"The challenge is, how can we create a mechanic where it makes your mistakes not matter and turns the game into a clown show? All these solutions are great but they don't take into account what X-Factor is supposed to do, which is turn the game into a joke."- O. Seth Killian

For me when I watch vids, after the rekkas it just doesn't seem he has that much of frame advantage and I just see people having difficulty in the Dune videos to actually earn something worth while after it. Everything usually is just blocked.

That's neat in terms of Iori's Command Grab, thanks for confirming. I was thinking you could do something like hyper hop D hit reset > run under cr.b > hyper hop over j.4b and different mix ups based around stuff like that. I don't really see Iori players mess around with that and just do basic spacings and confirms into HD combos.

I'd say Yuri was popular when the game first came out but I'd say her popularity dwindled a bit just like Elizabeth did right before the 1.1 patch. Yuri, Elizabeth, Mature, Goro, and Takuma were certainly played much more before the patch and now they shrunk. Now there are about a few people that stick with Takuma because they learned the Stun combo. Maybe it's just the large insurgence of Shen Woo that made me blind.

What does Atlus need to know to push for really good rollback netcode? People say GGPO this and that but even the majority of them don't know how it's actually programmed and implemented (how did the creators of Skullgirls manage to get GGPO in their software? Getting GGPO license and support doesn't sound cheap.) Hmmm but all this netcode work would be for nothing if they hand it over to something cheap like the Gamespy servers (the ones that bought out MPlayer and screwed up MK9.).... speaking of which, who is going to host the KOFXIII servers? SNKP or Atlus?

Atlus is totally new to top level fighting games. They did publish Arcana Heart 1, but that was a generation before online gaming became a standard feature and netcode became serious business for all console fighting games.

Is this going to be another case like when Ignition pestered SNKP to make good netcode but SNKP just hired some Japanese company that never took the rest of the world into account for their netcode and didn't bother to make any HD Remix-level multi-region testing and research on rollback vs. input delay?

At this rate, Atlus might need to open up an international beta test before release, don't you think?

People should at least for the time being avoid spreading inaccurate rumors of KOFXII netcode being reused.
The Atlus administrator R U OK? Buster Wolf'ed the TC that posted about information that was wrong.

"shelcoof, you're presenting an article based on a hands-on experience I personally oversaw and managed. The take away from that article should NOT be that the "same, re-used" netcode will appear in KOFXIII. That is not correct.

Every effort is being taken to ensure KOFXIII delivers the kind of online experience the series' fans expect and deserve.

The game was just announced this past week. Please, have some patience as we process your feedback, address your concerns, and prepare to roll out all the info you're eagerly anticipating between now and the game's release."

So at least Atlus is trying and sources like Gamespot misinterpreted what was said.
As of right now, there is no proof that the XII netcode is being recycled/modified, so no point dwelling on those rumors.

i dunno why a company that publishes weeboo games exclusively would do something like that

oh the voices thing is because of Sony's policy. Publishers have no choice but to follow the rules:

If a game is sold for the PS2/PS3 in the North America on disk, it must either include english voices or the foreign voices must be removed (the only exception they would allow is stuff like the Japanese voice clips during a match.)

Even if Atlus invested more money to provide English voiceovers to preserve the Japanese voices option, AH1 sales would still be pretty much the same.

I finally got a chance to play it. How? As Malcom X said "By any means necessary."

Am I the only one who can't get HCB/HCF motions out consistently? QCF and SRK motions are perfectly fine and responsive. I just can do HCB/HCF motions. Weird.

The sprites are just like 3S, only smoother. I assume when 3SO is out the two games will look about the same, except for the cinematic supers present in KOF 13.

I'm not feeling Neo-Max mode. It's nothing like a CC system like in the Alpha series or even Yun's Genei Jin. It looks like you have to do a very specific series of specials, and the timing has to be just right. Very hard. For good reason of course.

Drive-Cancelling favors some characters more than others. More research is needed.

I have mixed feelings. I like the EX moves. But there's something about it that leaves me underwhelmed.

I'm new to King of Fighters (13 will be my first one) and I have a question. When making a team what should I be thinking about when picking my characters? I want to start with a team of Elisabeth/K'/Mature but I don't know if that would be any good. I mostly picked the characters that I like lol.

It's called Hyper Drive mode and it works pretty much just like 02's Max mode, just it will automatically do the run up for you.

I thought both names were acceptable? Anywho... I really, really like Ralph. Probably the most bad ass version of Ralph in any KOF. He's got a decent AA, a Dive attack that's relatively safe. His QCF+Punch is an easy cancel into whatever you want. I like how he can do CD, and then follow up with QCF+Punch which leaves him relatively safe, pushes the opponent back, and takes a good chunk off their guard.

Hwai Jai is also pretty bad ass. I think he's better than Joe in a lot of ways. It's a shame that retards will think he's a ripoff of Adon.

King is also really, really good. Her Supers are okay at best but everything else she has is very nice.

Not feeling the god tiers. K' just feels very nub-friendly. I'm not digging Raiden right now, just because I can't do HCB/HCF motions on *ahem* this version. I feel like his game is based around getting that Drop Kick combo. Kula also feels like easy mode. Liz... I don't know.

I think my team would be setup like this: 1st character Hwai Jai or Kyo. Both can do big damage, zone, etc. 2nd would be King, just a solid character. 3rd Ralph so he gets all the Drive Cancel and Super meter for massive damage.

I'm new to King of Fighters (13 will be my first one) and I have a question. When making a team what should I be thinking about when picking my characters? I want to start with a team of Elisabeth/K'/Mature but I don't know if that would be any good. I mostly picked the characters that I like lol.

play k' point on that team as lizzy and mature both like meter. i would probably put lizzy last to round it out, since she has great comeback potential due to turning little hits like air-to-airs and AAs into big damage

I'm new to King of Fighters (13 will be my first one) and I have a question. When making a team what should I be thinking about when picking my characters? I want to start with a team of Elisabeth/K'/Mature but I don't know if that would be any good. I mostly picked the characters that I like lol.

Shiawase, just pick the characters you like and just play them. Everyone is solid.

Typically I'd recommend Iori/Zoning Character/Grappler Character (Clark) in other King of Fighters games to new people to understand game fundamentals. Iori previously had almost every tool and could play rushdown and more passive zoning but the areas he controls in the air are really specific and you have to pay better mind to spacing where and how you hop or jump and which normal you will use to control that space, much unlike K' who could just j.D all over the place willy nilly. Then I would recommend a zoning character such as Kensou or Joe due to the fact that those characters typically have more floaty hops and don't really do hop pressure but have a good deal controlling ground space and hop space, forcing most opponents having to commit to a full jump. In that case, most zoning characters don't usually have a good vertical anti-air normal that controls right above them, which is good against full jumps, but have to either rely on their good jump normals and floaty hops and jumps to control that space. Then I'd recommend a grappler so one could understand how grappler okizeme works and how to really set up for tick throws and make the opponent want to alternate guard. Once you establish the fact that the opponent will want to alternate guard, then you work in frametraps and staggered low attacks to make them want to consistently block low and forget about alternate guarding again. In this case I would recommend characters such as Raiden, Clark, and Goro then later move on to characters such as Maxima and Vice.

In the case of KOFXIII, I'd say the best new "Iori" would actually be Kyo. His j.D has been nerfed compared to previous entries due to the fact that he could no longer use the tip of his j.D to hit crouching opponents, the only opponents Kyo could hit crouching with his j.D are the larger characters such as Raiden, Goro, and Maxima. So although j.D is a good horizontal tool for space control, he'd have to carefully know when to do it since the opponent could just crouch under it and do a cr.B or cr.D as Kyo lands and Kyo is forced to eat a full combo. In this case though, Kyo has all the fundamental normals to control space: st.A for hops, cr.C for jumps and hops, st.D for counter poking grounded attacks as st.D is a really good sobat, cl.C when you run under an opponent to anti-air him, j.D for strictly horizontal air control, j.B for almost strictly downward vertical control (jump-in), and a good fireball that acts like an extension of Kyo's sweep and works as a decent poke but is susceptible to hops just like Old Iori's previous fireball. In any case, Kyo could zone and rushdown quite well and has all the fundamental tools, but as a character he isn't skewed into a more one dimensional character like K' who has obvious strengths in a few particular areas while others are a bit more lacking such as having a good cr.C for vertical anti air but he could just keep hop j.D all day controlling air and ground space not leaving much for variation or discipline.

For zoning in KOFXIII, I'd say Athena, Kensou, and Joe would be good beginning zoning characters. The thing with KOFXIII is that zoning characters have been given more standard hops and more tools to actually do longer hitconfirms into knockdown special attacks, and do more standard rushdown than in previous games; in this case making more homogenized playstyles for better or worse. I'd say Kensou's basic zoning game is still left intact and has relatively good zoning with his ever so frustrating fireball. In most cases in the past and still now, Kensou's fireball as well as Athena's were difficult to hop unless your character had a floaty hop as well. So generally, most characters had to commit to a roll or a full jump to get around the fireball but could be left susceptible to an anti air or a reaction throw/punish on a roll. In the case of KOFXIII, Kensou, Athena, and Joe could still do it and one could use these characters to force bad jumps and bad rolls. Using these characters help in making one react to rolls better as one is able to force more bad rolls. With Athena, she acquired a new cl.D attack that works like Iori's and Kyo's cl.C and she could actually run underneath opponents' jumps and anti-air them vertically, which is really good. Kensou has a good, fast st.D that catches a lot of jumps and hops. Joe controls a good deal of ground and hop space with just hurricane upper pressure and force an opponent to try to roll or jump, though he has to do something a bit more proactive when it comes to anti-airing full jumps such as having to neutral jump j.CD or hop backwards and j.CD or j.D.

When it comes to grappler okizeme, one has to understand that an opponent can't jump or really do anything if there is a really good meaty attack overlapping him. In this case, a person using a grappler could scare the opponent to staying on the ground to block or roll an attack and eat a command grab; or get an opponent scared of a command grab on okizeme and try to jump out out of it, but will get meatied on oki and get hitconfirmed into another command grab. Good beginning grapplers to understand this kind of game are Clark, Raiden, and Goro. Each have damaging throws that lead into good frame advantage for having a good okizeme game and have great aerial control such as Clark having j.D, j.CD, df.A, far C, and st.A while Goro has df.C, st.A, far C, j.CD, j.D and Raiden has EX DP, st.A, j.CD. Not only do they have good command throws and anti-airs and confirms into command throws, these characters also have good fast low attacks that either confirm into command grabs or they have good fast sweeps that of course knockdown and lead into another mix-up.

In the case of Elizabeth/K'/Mature, it's a solid enough team to win with especially with K' on there, but I wouldn't say you'd really learn the fundamental game solidly to be able to understand KOF as a whole and being able to understand other characters and limitations nor be able to transition into another KOF. Elizabeth is a good solid rushdown characters though and she'd be a good starting character akin to Kyo, but lacks that one aspect of playing full screen zoning that Kyo could do; but in return she could easily nullify zoning with her qcf+A. From my testing so far, Mature is a somewhat decent zoning character in KOFXIII as she was previously a really solid zoning character in previous games such as 98 og, 02um, and etc. What hurts her game mostly in KOFXIII is that her fireball isn't as wide as it used to be that makes it a bit easier for the opponent to jump over it in more angles than he could have in the past. You could look at this as an encouragement for the opponent to try to jump more often giving Mature more opportunities to anti-air, but so far it doesn't seem to give her as much as an advantage she had in the past. K' I would say to pick up in the beginning if you really just want to win. Otherwise I'd replace him with either Kyo or a grappling character.

If you really just want to pick these characters due to aesthetics or whatever, by all means do so. No character is "bad" or "mediocre" in this game. In regards to winning, you have a solid team. If you really want to "learn KOF" or learn fundamentals, I would recommend other characters at first. If you don't want to play those other characters, that is fine too.

When it comes to picking a team, it's not as minute or specific as Marvel vs. Capcom 3 or anything. You could pick the characters you like. What it comes down to is to understand what kind of character you have, fully understand what kind of gameplan that character follows, and to be able to play out any match up that character has. Otherwise the ordering is just based on meter management and which of your characters really needs meter or not. In previous games such as KOF 98, characters such as Iori or Benimaru don't really need meter to win so you could put those characters in front while characters such as Kyo don't really have damaging combos off of low light attacks unless he did have meter so he'd be better played in the middle or last. But then you wanted to avoid match ups such as Benimaru vs Chris or Takuma vs Leona as Chris could slide under pretty much all of Benimaru's great standing attacks and jump-ins or Leona could run underneath Takuma's fireballs. So ordering could affect that but inevitably one would have to just play the match up so most people just still order by meter management rather than match ups. Does it particularly matter if you have a team of all grapplers, zoners, or high/low rushdown characters? No, it just comes down to understanding of the game and knowing meter management.

With KOFXIII, most of the top players just play easy, high damage characters that do everything such as K', Raiden, and Shen Woo. Shoutouts to the few guys that try other characters such as Gaku with Athena, Haregoro with Joe, Anime Sommelier with Terry, and the others guys that stick with Ralf, Ash, Maxima, Vice, and other hidden gems.

Prob stupid question, but is Shen Woo "easier" to use in XIII? I know he's good because I see so many matches of him and in alot of them the Shen player is down then comes backs off retarded shit. I'm plan on running him in this so I'm picking him up and messing around with him in XII but alot of his links and followups are so iffy to land. Never used him in older games but didn't know he was so..... execution heavy lol.

Right now I'm looking at Shen Woo/Raiden/Robert and later on I might sub Raiden out for Mai, Yuri, or Liz(i didn't like her in XII but loved her in XI and she's beefy in XIII). Just depends. Thoughts?

Shen Woo is the opposite of execution heavy. You're most probably thinking of his qcf+k follow ups after all of his moves in XII which are pretty tight. Shen Woo is an easy straight forward character that has the basics but lacks knockdown attack after crouching light attacks. To make up for it, he has command grab mix ups after empty hops and in general.

As I said before, all the characters in the game are viable and are really solid. Post patch, there hasn't really been a tier list. If anything the top 3 characters used are K'/Raiden/Kula and a toss up between Kyo/Andy/Shen Woo following behind the top 3. It's usually just some combination of those characters due to the ease of play, could usually both zone and rush down, and easy damage.

Elizabeth is a better version of XI Elizabeth so go for it. Yuri is also a pretty good all around character that doesn't get much usage in uploaded videos but is a general favorite anyways since she has a decent enough hit confirm combo and Hyper Drive combos, air throw option selects, good sweep, good qcf+p and qcb+p. I'll just reiterate, everyone is good in the game and one should might as well learn as many characters as one could.