I think the suggestion was a bit tongue in cheek but it's still not well thought out. We want reverse commuters. If they take the PATH they help fund the operation while filling capacity on the reverse commute. The car traffic is not as desirable but on balance we gain by having more people working and shopping in Jersey than we lose with automobile traffic (again on reverse peak).

NYC can implement congestion pricing because of the....congestion. Jersey City has a bottleneck at the tunnels during rush hour, and that affects downtown traffic, but we are not so packed and do not have so much demand to use our roads that we can implement congestion pricing.

Improved public transportation in NYC benefits us here. I know that for my purposes, off peak travel and weekend travel is often a real pain due to the deferred maintenance of the NYC transit system.

I_heart_JC wrote:When I heard Fulop was floating a congestion pricing plan, I thought FOR SURE that meant he was going to add a surcharge to anyone who gets off the turnpike at LSP or Columbus, and then roars through downtown to the tunnel.

It would be simple: Anyone whose EasyPass dings at those exits, and then hits the tunnel within say 30 minutes, gets hit with a surcharge that goes straight into JC's coffers.

But no, that's not his plan at all. His plan is ass-backwards. And the most surprising thing is that I'm actually surprised.

Really hope there is a way to get this implemented, City should do a revenue share with Port Authority on this if it makes implementation easier...

Of course there is a way to get this implemented, assuming in terms of technology. But, it will never happen: first of all, you would have to get the PA on board, and given the mayor's previous antics, that is not going to happen. Also, this idea would be easy to defeat: anyone wanting to cut through JC could simply shield their EZ-Pass sensor prior to getting off in a ramp that leads into JC, then unshield it when approaching the Holland Tunnel. Also, what about cars that don't use EZ-Pass??

The idea sounds good until you realize that it really would be a mess to implement and enforce.

Drivers couldn't outsmart it if the actual toll readers were moved past exit 14C, to the fork, so they get ding'd (and charged) at Columbus, LSP, and the tunnel. Now that readers don't require an actual toll booth, it's not a huge ask, infrastructure-wise.

And then the reader at The Holland Tunnel is outfitted with a second reader, just for this purpose. Covering your easypass at either point means you just jumped a toll, which carries a much greater fine.

The PA could say no to the second reader, sure, but it would look like the petty payback it is, since that device would cost pennies.

Your proposed solution would definitely address the issue I raised. It would of course require NJTA to relocate or remove the existing 14C toll plaza. Personally, I don't like the idea all that much, as it could impact local residents who may come home from somewhere, stop at their home for something or another, and then continue to the Holland and get dinged. But, I do agree that something could/should be done about the traffic flooding local streets. Marin Blvd is nowadays a shitshow of traffic in the mornings AND afternoons, Grand continues to be a death rally track, and the BeLa streets do get a ton of congestion in the mornings.

I also think (but, dont know for sure) that there might be some regulatory and legal complications related to any profit sharing between the PA, and the local JC government, as well as the matter of getting them both to the table to discuss and agree on a plan, particularly after the truck inspections, lawsuits, and all the other trash talking that has taken place in the past few years.

I_heart_JC wrote:When I heard Fulop was floating a congestion pricing plan, I thought FOR SURE that meant he was going to add a surcharge to anyone who gets off the turnpike at LSP or Columbus, and then roars through downtown to the tunnel.

It would be simple: Anyone whose EasyPass dings at those exits, and then hits the tunnel within say 30 minutes, gets hit with a surcharge that goes straight into JC's coffers.

But no, that's not his plan at all. His plan is ass-backwards. And the most surprising thing is that I'm actually surprised.

Really hope there is a way to get this implemented, City should do a revenue share with Port Authority on this if it makes implementation easier...

Of course there is a way to get this implemented, assuming in terms of technology. But, it will never happen: first of all, you would have to get the PA on board, and given the mayor's previous antics, that is not going to happen. Also, this idea would be easy to defeat: anyone wanting to cut through JC could simply shield their EZ-Pass sensor prior to getting off in a ramp that leads into JC, then unshield it when approaching the Holland Tunnel. Also, what about cars that don't use EZ-Pass??

The idea sounds good until you realize that it really would be a mess to implement and enforce.

Drivers couldn't outsmart it if the actual toll readers were moved past exit 14C, to the fork, so they get ding'd (and charged) at Columbus, LSP, and the tunnel. Now that readers don't require an actual toll booth, it's not a huge ask, infrastructure-wise.

And then the reader at The Holland Tunnel is outfitted with a second reader, just for this purpose. Covering your easypass at either point means you just jumped a toll, which carries a much greater fine.

The PA could say no to the second reader, sure, but it would look like the petty payback it is, since that device would cost pennies.

A very simple solution (which I'm not advocating) is for the Port Authority to raise the bridge and tunnel tolls with the extra funds going into a lockbox to increase the capacity for transHudson transit crossings. There could even be a discount for Jersey City residents who take the Holland Tunnel similar to what MTA does for Staten Island Residents who drive (or free ferries?!?)

I'm not advocating for the above. Simply pointing out there are much easier solutions to what's being discussed.

Congestion will only get worse in Jersey City and transit will naturally become a more viable alternative when commuting into Manahattan.

I rather pay $2.75 to be in a packed PATH train at 8:30am for 15 minutes than spend $15 on tolls, $45 for parking, waste gas and an hour+ of my precious time trying to commute into Manhattan with a million other suckers.

I_heart_JC wrote:When I heard Fulop was floating a congestion pricing plan, I thought FOR SURE that meant he was going to add a surcharge to anyone who gets off the turnpike at LSP or Columbus, and then roars through downtown to the tunnel.

It would be simple: Anyone whose EasyPass dings at those exits, and then hits the tunnel within say 30 minutes, gets hit with a surcharge that goes straight into JC's coffers.

But no, that's not his plan at all. His plan is ass-backwards. And the most surprising thing is that I'm actually surprised.

Really hope there is a way to get this implemented, City should do a revenue share with Port Authority on this if it makes implementation easier...

Of course there is a way to get this implemented, assuming in terms of technology. But, it will never happen: first of all, you would have to get the PA on board, and given the mayor's previous antics, that is not going to happen. Also, this idea would be easy to defeat: anyone wanting to cut through JC could simply shield their EZ-Pass sensor prior to getting off in a ramp that leads into JC, then unshield it when approaching the Holland Tunnel. Also, what about cars that don't use EZ-Pass??

The idea sounds good until you realize that it really would be a mess to implement and enforce.

I_heart_JC wrote:When I heard Fulop was floating a congestion pricing plan, I thought FOR SURE that meant he was going to add a surcharge to anyone who gets off the turnpike at LSP or Columbus, and then roars through downtown to the tunnel.

It would be simple: Anyone whose EasyPass dings at those exits, and then hits the tunnel within say 30 minutes, gets hit with a surcharge that goes straight into JC's coffers.

But no, that's not his plan at all. His plan is ass-backwards. And the most surprising thing is that I'm actually surprised.

Really hope there is a way to get this implemented, City should do a revenue share with Port Authority on this if it makes implementation easier...

JC_Man wrote:I think Murphy is taking care of your last point - the state is quickly becoming a sh!thole with never-ending high taxes and bowing to public unions - people ARE leaving the state in droves.

Uh... No, they really aren't. NJ's population has increased at pretty much the same rate since the 70s.

The research is pretty clear that people don't drop their jobs, families, kids' schools, professional networks and friends because taxes went up a few basis points.

Similarly, Kansas' population did not soar when the state slashed its taxes -- in fact, population growth slowed, possibly because Kansas' government already does almost nothing, and the tax cuts resulted in year after year of fiscal crisis followed by slashing what little spending remained.

Anyway.... People leave mostly because they are getting older and retire to warmer climates, typically Florida.

NEW Taxes are okay. New Jerseyans just bend over and take the full shaft.

When I heard Fulop was floating a congestion pricing plan, I thought FOR SURE that meant he was going to add a surcharge to anyone who gets off the turnpike at LSP or Columbus, and then roars through downtown to the tunnel.

It would be simple: Anyone whose EasyPass dings at those exits, and then hits the tunnel within say 30 minutes, gets hit with a surcharge that goes straight into JC's coffers.

But no, that's not his plan at all. His plan is ass-backwards. And the most surprising thing is that I'm actually surprised.

JC_Man wrote:I think Murphy is taking care of your last point - the state is quickly becoming a sh!thole with never-ending high taxes and bowing to public unions - people ARE leaving the state in droves.

Uh... No, they really aren't. NJ's population has increased at pretty much the same rate since the 70s.

The research is pretty clear that people don't drop their jobs, families, kids' schools, professional networks and friends because taxes went up a few basis points.

Similarly, Kansas' population did not soar when the state slashed its taxes -- in fact, population growth slowed, possibly because Kansas' government already does almost nothing, and the tax cuts resulted in year after year of fiscal crisis followed by slashing what little spending remained.

Anyway.... People leave mostly because they are getting older and retire to warmer climates, typically Florida.

If they credit us for our toll I don't see the problem that Fulop's trying to solve. The real issue is the GWB should get the credit too, or else it will drive traffic to the tunnels.

While the east river crossings aren't our problem, this seems to perpetuate the shitshow of inequity between the free bridges and the tunnels if you're only charged on the bridges going inbound and the tunnels charge both ways.

AAA bitching about getting no money for roads from the deal is pretty funny. They really don't get it!

JCGuys wrote:Awww... Stevie means well but fucks it up. More taxes are not the answer.

He's basically advocating for higher tolls by the Port Aurthoity so it can be invested in PATH and other transHudson transit improvements.

Also, I didn't read that NYC residents would be exempt from the congestion pricing scheme, but assuming that is the case, why is that unacceptable but a payroll tax on Jersey City businesses that employ out of towners, with the revenue being used to fund our bloated and shitty school board, is somehow okay?

I'm a big transit/bike/pedestrian supporter but congestion pricing should be for exactly that -- reducing congestion-- not as a retaliatory tool to punish NY commuters into JC. The unintended consequences include businesses getting fed up with thr extra taxes and leaving, taking with them their precious income taxes they generate. Maybe if we make this city shitty enough, that will solve our congestion problems because everyone will have had enough bullshit and move away to Florida.

I think Murphy is taking care of your last point - the state is quickly becoming a sh!thole with never-ending high taxes and bowing to public unions - people ARE leaving the state in droves.

JCGuys wrote:Awww... Stevie means well but fucks it up. More taxes are not the answer.

He's basically advocating for higher tolls by the Port Aurthoity so it can be invested in PATH and other transHudson transit improvements.

Also, I didn't read that NYC residents would be exempt from the congestion pricing scheme, but assuming that is the case, why is that unacceptable but a payroll tax on Jersey City businesses that employ out of towners, with the revenue being used to fund our bloated and shitty school board, is somehow okay?

I'm a big transit/bike/pedestrian supporter but congestion pricing should be for exactly that -- reducing congestion-- not as a retaliatory tool to punish NY commuters into JC. The unintended consequences include businesses getting fed up with thr extra taxes and leaving, taking with them their precious income taxes they generate. Maybe if we make this city shitty enough, that will solve our congestion problems because everyone will have had enough bullshit and move away to Florida.

I think Murphy is taking care of your last point - the state is quickly becoming a sh!thole with never-ending high taxes and bowing to public unions - people ARE leaving the state in droves.

Awww... Stevie means well but fucks it up. More taxes are not the answer.

He's basically advocating for higher tolls by the Port Aurthoity so it can be invested in PATH and other transHudson transit improvements.

Also, I didn't read that NYC residents would be exempt from the congestion pricing scheme, but assuming that is the case, why is that unacceptable but a payroll tax on Jersey City businesses that employ out of towners, with the revenue being used to fund our bloated and shitty school board, is somehow okay?

I'm a big transit/bike/pedestrian supporter but congestion pricing should be for exactly that -- reducing congestion-- not as a retaliatory tool to punish NY commuters into JC. The unintended consequences include businesses getting fed up with thr extra taxes and leaving, taking with them their precious income taxes they generate. Maybe if we make this city shitty enough, that will solve our congestion problems because everyone will have had enough bullshit and move away to Florida.