Yeah, Carrabbas was good years ago when they first came to our area too. We used to go about once a month. But the last few times were not good at all. It seems that the only seasoning that they use is salt. No garlic, oregano, basil, etc., that you expect in Italian food, just salt and lots of it.

The chain stores were never like the original two - not even the same menu.

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"We make great pizza, with sourdough when we can, commercial yeast when we must, but always great pizza."Craig's Neapolitan Garage

Oh yeah we have a Buca di Beppo near us. Talk about crap food. Gotta give Olive Garden props for one thing. They are masters of taking the same sauce, putting it on 25 different shapes of pasta and calling it something new. And Carrabas used to be pretty good. They had this chicken trio that was awesome.

Can't believe this didn't occur to me earlier, but I'm gonna have to answer the question again. Question: Anyone know any pizzerias which are popular but serving bad pizza? Answer: Yes. Pretty much every large chain, or maybe even every chain with more than a few units. It's almost impossible to expand beyond one unit without sacrificing quality in a bunch of ways, and for a bunch of reasons.

Disclaimer: Don't necessarily believe anything I say here. My brain ain't quite right anymore (unless it is). If I come off as rude or argumentative, that's probably not my intention. Rather, that's just me being honest, to myself and everyone else; partly because I don't have enough time left to BS either you or myself. If you are offended by anything I say, it's probably because you think lying to people (to be "polite") is a good idea. I don't.

It's probably fun to moan about the public taste once in a while, but as endeavors go, it's pretty hopeless.

I once saw a stat in some business text stating that product quality counts for about 14% of a product's success. I can't vouch for the number but I can vouch for its minority.

We all know that you can make a masterpiece or you can make money, but the likelihood of doing both is about the same as a lottery ticket's winning. The people who want to make money (we know who they are) set out with the goal of making money and you could give them any product and they'd do the same things and they'd make money.

Looking at the bright side, the people who would have never gone to Nino's or Bay and Goodman in 1975 are getting pulled into the pizza habit by the Dominos of the world, and who's to say that some of them mightn't get adventurous some day and try something that the initiates enjoy.

I'm going to note that in word-of-mouth advertising ALL restaurants suffer when the original cook steps down and hands over the control to either a protege or a replacement. The real reason the place had any lasting popularity in the first place was the food.

Riding the hype wave has become a trademark of trendy food establishments that NEED to be seen as "young" and "cool" - if they lose that, they die, because their food just isn't worth paying outrageous prices for. Why do people listen to that hype crap? Because they have voluntarily replaced their own critical thinking with TV advertisements. If more people actually thought about what they were told, they would seek the truth... as Craig pointed out in his hilarious, absolutely stellar rewrite of A Few Good Men/Pizzaolos.

I almost forgot about Romeo's. I think that they are pretty much just an Ohio chain but they have quite a few locations. They are very popular in my area. I know people that rave about their pizza and say that they would never consider ordering from anywhere else. They have a very loyal and almost cult-like following.

To say that their sauce is sweet would be the understatement of the year. I'm surprised that their sauce doesn't harden like candy in the oven! I for one can't stand sweet sauce, but this stuff takes it to a whole new level.

If I were to make a list of pizza joints in my area, in order of how likely I would be to order from them, Romeo's would be dead last. There must be a market for pizza candy though because they seem to do fairly well. To each his own.

I don't know Walter, I have lived in Ohio all of my life and, with a few exceptions, every pie that I've tried in NYC was better than what I'm used to in Ohio.

Where do you live? I am in Granville. I teach at Newark High School and my program teaches special needs students life/vocational skills via a brand new commerical kitchen that includes 2 classic blodgett 1000 pizza ovens I scored. We sell home made dog biscuits, pizzas, breads, baked goods, to the staff and community. The ovens should be hooked up in a couple weeks. If you want to cook some real pizzas (real from my backround) come on out to my classroom this summer. I have to get the feel for these ovens and no better way to do so than make a bunch of pizzas and breads. Walter

That is a really great facility you have there...nice layout and it looks pretty roomy.Very nice! How many students do you instruct at a time?Congrats on the ovens score...I remember when you told us about that. I'll bet the kids are really impressed and excited to get going on the "real deal"!You say this is at a public school, huh. How many kids are involved with the special needs program and are you responsible for any other curriculm. Sounds like you are quite proud and happy with your work....I would be too. Thanks!

every pie I have tried in Ohio is bad in comparision to what I raised on in the NYC area. I think it is all what you are use to. Walter

Nope. Pizza in Ohio really is that bad. You can go into a gas station in rural Maine and get better pizza than they serve at most pizzerias in Ohio. But then, it's hard to get good pizza almost everywhere outside of NY/NJ/New England.

Despite what I just said, I've managed to gain an appreciation for some Ohio pizza over the last couple years. There are some unique types of crust around here (that probably came into existence by mistake or 'happy accident'). Unfortunately, they're usually topped with crappy sauce, cheese, and toppings.

Disclaimer: Don't necessarily believe anything I say here. My brain ain't quite right anymore (unless it is). If I come off as rude or argumentative, that's probably not my intention. Rather, that's just me being honest, to myself and everyone else; partly because I don't have enough time left to BS either you or myself. If you are offended by anything I say, it's probably because you think lying to people (to be "polite") is a good idea. I don't.

Where do you live? I am in Granville. I teach at Newark High School and my program teaches special needs students life/vocational skills via a brand new commerical kitchen that includes 2 classic blodgett 1000 pizza ovens I scored. We sell home made dog biscuits, pizzas, breads, baked goods, to the staff and community. The ovens should be hooked up in a couple weeks. If you want to cook some real pizzas (real from my backround) come on out to my classroom this summer. I have to get the feel for these ovens and no better way to do so than make a bunch of pizzas and breads. Walter

here are a few pictures of the ovens, my students making pies, and a cheese pie made in our residential oven.

I live in NE Ohio. I lived in central Ohio from 1983-1995 so I'm quite familiar with Newark. It sounds like you have a nice thing going there with the special needs students. I wish you well.

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As for the quality (or lack thereof) of pizza in Ohio, for the most part I would agree. This is why I started making my own. I was very much part of the pizza scene in the Columbus area for years. It was a very competitive market, but it was all about price and speed and not necessarily quality. If you could make a reasonably edible product, and sell it cheap, you could be very successful.

Here in my area, there are a few joints that rise a little above the huge sea of mediocrity that surrounds us. I recently tried Lorenzo's (thezaman's), and proved that excellent pizza is out there, you just have to look for it. I only wish that he was a little closer, but it's worth the 20 minute drive.

That is a really great facility you have there...nice layout and it looks pretty roomy.Very nice! How many students do you instruct at a time?Congrats on the ovens score...I remember when you told us about that. I'll bet the kids are really impressed and excited to get going on the "real deal"!You say this is at a public school, huh. How many kids are involved with the special needs program and are you responsible for any other curriculum. Sounds like you are quite proud and happy with your work....I would be too. Thanks!

Bob

thanks Bob! I have been running programs similar to this one in CA and TX. When I came to Newark High School I was able to work my way into an old home ec. room that was not being used. From there I started things rolling with first Max's T-Biscuits for Dogs and then started making pizzas every Friday for my students and staff. I offered them for free to the staff and as the buzz grew I introduced baguettes/semolina/sourdough/white/wheat sandwich breads, brownies, muffins, cookies, etc.. 5 years later here we are in this wonderful kitchen. Luckily the superintendent, board of education, and principals at my school got behind the idea. We took in over 20k last year selling to students, staff, Max's T- Biscuits via local businesses/mail orders, and an occasional catering job. Now that we are all up to code we are branching out to the community and getting great response. I forsee us with shelf space in a few markets/cafes and will run a to go service from our room. Community members can call in orders and pick them up. Our prices are cheap and the ingredients top shelf.

I work with Developmentally Delayed (MR) students. They are with me all day and running a working business naturally incorporates functional academics. The more the businesses grow the more students I can take in. I am working on getting our dog biscuits in some chain pet food stores/high end pet catalogs. If this happens we will be able to reach many dozens of special needs/at risk regular education students as well as the disabled adult community via their workshops.

The room is approx 1,600 sq ft and the board of health inspector said we have the nicest kitchen in the county. The blodgett 1000 ovens fit perfectly under the exhaust hood. I was raised in the bakery/pizza scene in NJ via my mother's side who is from Italy.

Ryan/Colonel Klink: I am sure there is good pizza in Ohio. I will check that place out next time we are out that way.

here is a video I was inspired to make the other day. It gives some info on where the universe is directing my journey. Feel free to share it with anyone you think might have some good vibes to send us I am off to watch the Yankees do some damage on them Soxs!

"Where do you live? I am in Granville. I teach at Newark High School and my program teaches special needs students life/vocational skills via a brand new commerical kitchen that includes 2 classic blodgett 1000 pizza ovens I scored."

Oh, man. There's an expensive boutique rent-a-workshop chain that has a facility here. Table saws, Bridgeports, CAD terminals, all that, for only a $800/yr membership. I wouldn't do that but if I could get my hands on a Blodgett to try and learn something about this pizza stuff, I'd be there just as soon as I can brush my teeth and comb my hair.

Not that hard, Alan, just read everything on this site that interests you. Maybe look around your local area, see what you like, go for a PT job just see what the fast-paced production life is like. If you get lucky, you could even find a shop with a crusty ol' pizzaiolo who will teach you the wayz of the Force.

Here in my area, there are a few joints that rise a little above the huge sea of mediocrity that surrounds us. I recently tried Lorenzo's (thezaman's), and proved that excellent pizza is out there, you just have to look for it. I only wish that he was a little closer, but it's worth the 20 minute drive.

20 minutes? Are you kidding me? Here in California, where we drive everywhere for ridiculous distances, I motor 45 minutes to get my pizza fix at Michael's Pizza in the armpit-ghetto known as Stockton. About every other month I make the pilgrimage (in body armor, of course). If I lived 20 minutes away, I'd be a regular. I'd rate Michael's combo (their best pizza IMO) about an 8 out of 10. His toppings are outstanding. The crust is cruchy but chewy with a nice, big roll all around, sometimes too much roll to knaw on. http://michaelspizzacafe.com/menu-pizza.html This is by far the best pizza within 100 miles here in central CA. Michael's Pizza best eaten when served scalding hot out of the oven and the first few bites are heaven, but the product seems to decline noticably in utility toward the end of the meal. Reheated the next day at home is OK, but the essence is long gone. Here's another few good shots of their product http://michaelspizzacafe.com/pizza.html

With some work, I think I could beat Michael's if I decide to throw my hat in the ring, but I wouldn't have to compete because of the distance involved. I live just outside the city of Oakdale, a small town of 20K and the biggest wide spot in the road on the way to Yosemite National Park. Tens of thousands pass by weekly coming and going from Yosemite. Many are starved after hiking all weekend. The best pizza around here is a Round Table. I think I could make a small fortune (after starting with a large one) with a prominent restaurant on the main drag, where it's busy during the week but backed-up for miles on the weekends.

When I was a kid, there was an outstanding place in Stockton called Pepe's. Un-freakin-believable. Pepe's closed in about 1972. He moved to the mountain town of Arnold in retirement, got bored, reopened in the middle of no where and had this second-wind for a few years before checking-out. He made a 10/10, the best I've ever had. Does anybody remember Pepe's or have I outlived my contemporaries?

20 minutes? Are you kidding me? Here in California, where we drive everywhere for ridiculous distances, I motor 45 minutes to get my pizza fix at Michael's Pizza in the armpit-ghetto known as Stockton. About every other month I make the pilgrimage (in body armor, of course). If I lived 20 minutes away, I'd be a regular.

20 minutes is probably best case with no traffic. Last time it took almost 30 minutes. We do intend to be regulars, but if we want pizza at home, we're talking an hour round trip. There are probably 20 pizza joints within 5 minutes of my house, but none of them even come close to Lorenzos.

20 minutes is probably best case with no traffic. Last time it took almost 30 minutes. We do intend to be regulars, but if we want pizza at home, were talking an hour round trip. There are probably 20 pizza joints within 5 minutes of my house, but none of them even come close to Lorenzos.

I guarantee that none have passion anywhere close to Larry's.

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"We make great pizza, with sourdough when we can, commercial yeast when we must, but always great pizza."Craig's Neapolitan Garage

scott123

I'd rate Michael's combo (their best pizza IMO) about an 8 out of 10. His toppings are outstanding.

RE, not to sound like a broken record, but if you consider Michael's an 8 out of 10, consider yourself ready to have your mind blown when you start making real NY style pizza (with our help). If that's all your area has, you can start a real NY place with an extremely small fortune, and, if you have the amount of tourists coming through that you say you do, you will be an incredibly wealthy man in a very short amount of time. In an area with good traffic and no real competition, I would predict you'd clear your first million in 5 years.

If you go Neapolitan... with Yosemite visitors... I don't think you'll make as much.

RE, not to sound like a broken record, but if you consider Michael's an 8 out of 10, consider yourself ready to have your mind blown when you start making real NY style pizza (with our help). If that's all your area has, you can start a real NY place with an extremely small fortune, and, if you have the amount of tourists coming through that you say you do, you will be an incredibly wealthy man in a very short amount of time. In an area with good traffic and no real competition, I would predict you'd clear your first million in 5 years.

If you go Neapolitan... with Yosemite visitors... I don't think you'll make as much.

Hmm . . .

If my hunch is correct and you are right too, Scott, this place just might be a gold mine. There's no bypass so every car has to inch through town on the way to the park, and those tourists are starving, especially on the way home. The waters in the rivers they are rafting in are ice cold and the mountains breath-taking with miles of endless trails. By the time they drive an hour down the hill on the highway to our town, they are looking to fry road kill. Sometimes the backup in town is 4-5 miles during the summer.