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Fouls and flopping and blocks

I'd just like to say that this series, and particularly last night's game, had an extreme amount of flopping and fouling. The refs aren't buying the flops, but they also aren't calling any fouls. So it swung both ways, but I actually thought Indy made a better effort to drive the lane and make contact... repeatedly I watched them get hacked to death and no call. Detroit had this happen too, but Indy got hardly any calls (Detroit led in FT attempts over the home-town Pacers by TEN)

Also, Detroit played some (physical... at times too rough) D and the refs just weren't doing anything about it. Ya it's hard to score when the D is slapping and shoving and hacking as much as they were. Indy was guilty too, but Detroit was just going ballistic with it. The Detroit homers will just say it was great D, and don't get me wrong it was some good D, but there were a lot of times where they shoulda got a whistle.

Finally, a team doesn't get 19 blocks without a goaltending. This is some serious bull. I will concede that their block party was impressive, but there were at least 3 of those 19 blocks that I thought shoulda been goaltending, and it was never called.

This was probably the most horribly reffed game I've ever seen, going both ways, but imo Detroit got the good side of calls most of the night. There were some ******** calls against Detroit but the no-calls against Indy was just atrocious.

I really hope the next game is called more evenly and consistently. I don't want to sit there and watch Ben swat a ball into the stands when it was just starting it's downward path and they don't call anything.

Indy needs to fight through this very rough defense and make some shots.

There are two types of quarterbacks in the league: Those whom over time, the league figures out ... and those who figure out the league.

Re: Fouls and flopping and blocks

I am going to watch the tape tonight, to see how many fouls were not called

I hope you have 3 or 4 others watching the tape with you. You're going to need a lot of fingers and toes to keep track.

Seriously, as you know, it was an absolute war any where near the are of the basket.

I think the Pacers were frustrated because in the Heat series, at times neither team could breath on each other without a foul being called. This series was predicted to be a war between two very good defensive teams, and the refs are allowing it to be played that way.

I do believe the Pacers are being fouled on 1/3 of the shots they take withing 5 feet of the basket. But I also believe the same could be said for the Pistons. Last night, players from both teams, whether they made the shot or not, were complaining about contact to their forearms as they were shooting. I really agreed with players from both teams.... there WAS a lot of contact to the forearms.

The only thing that bothers me, from the perspective of both teams, is that anything went under the basket, but players were being called for questionable blocking fouls out on the floor, 22-25 feet from the basket.

There were really only a couple of problems that I had from a Pacer perspective.

On one, Rip lost control of the ball on the dribble when being pressured and ran 8-10 feet to pick it up in hand, only to begin dribbling again. The ref assumed that a Pacer player deflected it, but that was not the case. Rip just lost control.

The other was when Tinsley ran flat into a Pistons player on a moving screen about 20 feet from the basket, only to see the Pistons hit the jumper with no foul called against the screener. That call stood out to me because it cost us two points.

But for the two that I remember as a Pacers fan, I am certain that a Pistons fan could point out a handful that went the other way.

I would agree that the game was a very tough one to referee, with all of the contact in the paint. But from my perspective, I'd say the refs should call all the fouls they want. With the duration of the TV timeouts beyond bordering on the ridiculous, the only way that our depth can account for anything would be through attrition. Let players from both teams start getting into some serious foul trouble, and I think our depth would actually mean something.

Re: Fouls and flopping and blocks

I am going to watch the tape tonight, to see how many fouls were not called

I hope you have 3 or 4 others watching the tape with you. You're going to need a lot of fingers and toes to keep track.

Seriously, as you know, it was an absolute war any where near the are of the basket.

I think the Pacers were frustrated because in the Heat series, at times neither team could breath on each other without a foul being called. This series was predicted to be a war between two very good defensive teams, and the refs are allowing it to be played that way.

I do believe the Pacers are being fouled on 1/3 of the shots they take withing 5 feet of the basket. But I also believe the same could be said for the Pistons. Last night, players from both teams, whether they made the shot or not, were complaining about contact to their forearms as they were shooting. I really agreed with players from both teams.... there WAS a lot of contact to the forearms.

The only thing that bothers me, from the perspective of both teams, is that anything went under the basket, but players were being called for questionable blocking fouls out on the floor, 22-25 feet from the basket.

There were really only a couple of problems that I had from a Pacer perspective.

On one, Rip lost control of the ball on the dribble when being pressured and ran 8-10 feet to pick it up in hand, only to begin dribbling again. The ref assumed that a Pacer player deflected it, but that was not the case. Rip just lost control.

The other was when Tinsley ran flat into a Pistons player on a moving screen about 20 feet from the basket, only to see the Pistons hit the jumper with no foul called against the screener. That call stood out to me because it cost us two points.

But for the two that I remember as a Pacers fan, I am certain that a Pistons fan could point out a handful that went the other way.

I would agree that the game was a very tough one to referee, with all of the contact in the paint. But from my perspective, I'd say the refs should call all the fouls they want. With the duration of the TV timeouts beyond bordering on the ridiculous, the only way that our depth can account for anything would be through attrition. Let players from both teams start getting into some serious foul trouble, and I think our depth would actually mean something.

I admit when I am watching the game live especially in person I cannot be objective on questionable calls. I can on obvious calls. However watching a tape of a game I saw in person withouit the emotions running so high I can be objective on questionable calls.

Pistons are a great shot blocking team, and Larry Brown teaches shot blocking.

If anyone cares, I will watch the whole game and keep a tally of how many fouls should or should not have been called on both teams. Only on shots taken, no off the ball stuff, that doe not bother me, but if shooters are getting bumped in the lane a foul needs to be called on whichever team commits it

Re: Fouls and flopping and blocks

Im wondering what the score might have been had Ben Wallace been called for two early phantom fouls, NEITHER of which were right calls. Or how about that phantom double dribble by Billups at the end, or Rip's phantom loose ball foul on reggie with the Pistons up six?

BTW, I honestly believe Ron Artest commits more uncalled offensive fouls than any forward in the NBA. He was shoving off Prince literally EVERY TIME he went to the hoop.

The Pacers get away with MORE than their fair share of drap.

It wasn't about being the team everyone loved, it was about beating the teams everyone else loved.

Re: Fouls and flopping and blocks

Im wondering what the score might have been had Ben Wallace been called for two early phantom fouls, NEITHER of which were right calls. Or how about that phantom double dribble by Billups at the end, or Rip's phantom loose ball foul on reggie with the Pistons up six?

BTW, I honestly believe Ron Artest commits more uncalled offensive fouls than any forward in the NBA. He was shoving off Prince literally EVERY TIME he went to the hoop.

The Pacers get away with MORE than their fair share of drap.

Yeah, the refs weren't too great. Game 1 was well-officiated, but game 2 was much more irregular. ed:

Re: Fouls and flopping and blocks

BTW, I honestly believe Ron Artest commits more uncalled offensive fouls than any forward in the NBA. He was shoving off Prince literally EVERY TIME he went to the hoop.

Still doesn't compare to the defensive fouls that go uncalled for Mike James and Lindsey Hunter - which we have yet to really see this series. Give it time though...

Edit: It may seem like Ron is committing an offensive foul on Prince...but when you have the body frame of a twig, and biceps as big as a 4 year old boy he's obviously outweighed and can't handle Artest's force.

Re: Fouls and flopping and blocks

As Kstat correctly points out for every bad call one way there was another bad call the other way.

Having said that I thought game #2 was poorly officiated, the players had no idea what was going to be called next, I said that in the second quarter last night and it got worse from there on. What about that jump ball call by Bennett On Bender's drive, I thoight prince fouled Bender, I am sure Kstat believes Bender traveled. The point is no one thought the right call was a jump ball.