Saturday, June 28, 2008

We Sold Grand Regency To The Libyans… Muta-do?

Two things happened yesterday, one a small incident and the other a major announcement that shook the country. Both served to remind Kenyans that nothing has changed. And probably nothing will ever change.

The smaller incident was that Vice President Kalonzo Musyoka’s motorcade was leaving his Karen residence in the morning when they came across an accident involving a Mr Joshua Kulei. Remember the former-prison-warden-turned-billionaire? The semi-illiterate guy who made bags and bags of cash, mainly looted from public coffers as former President Moi’s personal assistant? The VP’s people assisted Kulei. Apparently there were no serious injuries.

If Kulei is still not in jail it proves that nothing has changed despite all the hot air witnessed these days. The guy is still in the country enjoying his ill-gotten wealth. Yet another shining example of selective justice, Kenyan-style.

The bigger event was that Finance Minister Amos Kimunya announced that the Grand Regency has already been sold to some Libyans for about Kshs 2.9 billion. (Chris published the inside story here almost 2 months ago. Read it HERE. You will cry tears.) Now the virtually toothless parliamentary select committee has threatened action. That is really funny. What action can they seriously take?

Kimunya and company are very smart. Together with the likes of Martha Karua, (and another lawyer called Gichira Kibara) they went through the Kenyan electoral law last December and quickly identified all the loopholes. The most gaping one is that to be declared president of Kenya (whether you have lost or won the election) the only guy you need “to take care of” is the commission chair. This explains (for those with the memory of an elephant like me) why the president was so determined to fill the commission with his cronies. The idea was to prop up his own hand-picked chairperson who could do as he or she was instructed. Public pressure forced the re-appointment of Samuel Kivuitu but ways and means of getting him to play ball were still found.

These people do not make mistakes (legally at least). When it comes to politics, that is a whole different story which I have no intention of discussing now. So the Grand Regency Hotel has been sold for at least half its’ market value BUT Muta-do? There is absolutely nothing anybody can do about it. I will use Robert Mugabe’s words to the world the other day; “they can shout as much as they want…”

The comedy in the whole Grand Regency saga was the clip local TV stations have been playing showing Kimunya denying that there was any plan to secretly sell the prestigious hotel turned public property.

“Somebody heard it in a bar, others got it from some rumour mill (I am certain in his mind he was thinking about this exclusive Kumekucha story) and now they are talking about it with such authority as if they know what is going on.”

Very funny. Now it is clear that the “bar stories” and the “rumour mills” were 100 per cent accurate and the Finance Minister was telling lies on national TV. Muta-do?

P.S. This is precisely why ODM were dreaming when they gunned for the Finance portfolio during the Kofi Anan talks. This Grand Regency deal like the Safaricom one before it would have been impossible to pull off without Kimunya at the Treasury.

P.S. 2 Something we were discussing with Chris on the phone which I want to pass on for you to mull over this weekend. Why are some people so determined to discredit this blog and Chris’ explosive raw notes? And yet time and again the information published in both is proving to be 101% accurate. What would be the real motive?

56 comments:

Anonymous
said...

The expose on the grand regency is a patriotic act. This what we want Kumekucha to continue doing. Not telling us about Marianne Brinner sleeping with JK or Passaris sleeping with Raila. We are now going to the times when Kumekucha was a site to quote.Now to business. It is time ODM ministers (like Orengo) came out to be counted. They should make noise in the cabinet and have Ringera removed.Regean- Butere, Kenya.

In the previous post, Taabu and a few commentators have strongly criticized the role of KACC and its Director in this Grand Regency saga. My take is that Ringera and his team have done a commendable job in recovering this asset on behalf of the Kenyan public. What I am unhappy about is the blanket amnesty they have given Pattni and his 16 co-accused. These thieves should not be let scott-free!

When I told you guys that Amos Kimunya is the BIGGEST CRIMINAL in the Kenyan cabinet many people thought it was just but Kumekucha Kikuyu bashing. That's when Chris came up with this outrageous claims that blind-winger Kimunya was on his way to Jumba La Taifa....dream on.

It is trully revealling that what we have been saying here since 2006 that Kalonzo was not just JUDAS but he was also a MOLE in the opposition. It is not entirely shocking at revelations of how public funds were diverted to finance campaigns of two political parties (ODM-K and PNU).

This incident proves behind any shadow of doubt that all along, as many Kenyans were lining up supporting the ODM-K cause, JUDAS Kalonzo, Chairman Maanzo and Secretary Chepkonga and their people had actually already been contracted MOLES by enemies of democracy to ensure ODM-K does not go to the 2007 as a united party. When ODM was formed, ODM-K was financed (remember hire-a-crowd episodes in Uhuru Park?) to frustrate the one and only ODM. Why else would 5 billion of Libyan cash be diverted to ODM-K and PNU?

It is easy to understand why Mutula Kilonzo put pressure on Kivuitu to announce fraudulent presidential election results. He knew what was in it for him and his party leader. It does not matter that hundreds of thousands of Kenyans met their untimely death or are homeless because of these selfish and irresponsible politicians in ODM-K and PNU. For them, being in cabinet is a way of enriching themselves even more.

As much as I would like to agree with your prognosis that these criminals will face justice, you and I know that it will never happen. It did not happen in the past and it will not happen now. That's the sad reality and you can write and shout as much as you want, it will not change anything. Those you want to make responsible are only laughing and continue looting and will continue doing so for the next years to come. Their well-functioning machinery of politics and money will make sure that nobody can touch them. The best example is Daniel arap Moi. People have even started - also on this blog - to admire him. So why are you so re-occupied with his servant Joshua Kulei? Kulei only did what Moi told him to do as his proxy before Moi's sons were old enough to take over some of the businesses Kulei was running for their father before. There are countless other 'Kuleis' - but who cares? Nobody - at least not those at the top. They all form the same bunch of crooks, past and present ones. Is there any hope for a change? I fear, not - at least not for the next years to come.

Chris / Oscar...Raila and Co can now realize how they got a wrong deal and now end up in bed with GEMA thieves! This is failure and we want MAJIMBO so as not to bear the costs of these Kikuyu thieves...!!!

I thought that the people who have bought the hotel have invested in the country.

Secondly, the hotel has been in the hands of the government for some time and the government has been running the accounts.

What do you people want? You wanted to start another MOLASSES FUND to buy it or what? Or you wanted Raila Odinga to buy it as part of Spectre International or use the election 'change' to invest there. I think that ODM were about to start another MOLASSES contribution to buy the hotel.

ME thinks that it serves Patni right before he moves to the courts to stop the sale after the alleged amnesty is not effected. The government was just playing clever in this case.

The hotel has been sold. It was sold to the highest bidder in an offer that the seller could not refuse. These are foreign investors who have sunk their cash in our country and should be encouraged.

Please stop politicising the sale. It was done overboard and in accordance with the law. Or part of the PM supervisory duties was to conduct a sale of the same.

Why is the Grand Regency sale to the Libyans such a big deal? Isnt the question how much money was used to bribe them to sell to the libyans? If its a legit deal, i see no problems. And dont you anon 3.16 dare say the ODM ministers should make noise to have Ringera removed, any fool worth his salt would know that they are all involved in this thing. And bar talk isnt 101% accuracy, i hope that doesnt form the basis of this argument

I'm afraid I have to agree with you on this one. Kenyans:Get-them-out, they should NOT be in the business of governing. However, my sense is that the entire community should not take the rap for this one--so drop the Kikuyu mafia type thing. But do CRUCIFY the wrong doers. No need to point fingers in different directions, just crucify them-- I'm absolutely fed up!

Anon 7:17 AM, your DECEPTIVE spin on this Grand Regency theft will not work. Just like Kibaki STOLE the Dec '07 elections, He and his Kyuk's are doing the same with Grand Regency. THEFT is THEFT, something that you Kikuyu's seem to excel in - part of your primitive culture.

Just for the records: the sale of the Grand Regency was published a.o. in the East African who also mentioned the names of the buyers and their former unsuccessful approach to buy the Kilimanjaro Hotel BEFORE the story was first published in Kumekucha.

I had actually sent to Chris the clip of the East African (like I had done also in the past when I alerted him about certain hot stories and gave him the necessary information) and he used it to write his article.

You have done a disservice to the Grand Regency discussion by dragging Kalonzo's name and ODMK/ODM's last year's fight. If your aim is to make him look corrupt, then you have failed miserably! He has not stolen a molasses plant like Raila! He does not have Ministry of Energy Moi-era deals like Raila! And his family has not grabbed road reserves in Kisumu like Raila's family! He did not endorse Safaricom IPO after having "lunch" with Kimunya like Raila! He was not in Libya in 2002 to get $3 millions for campaign like Raila did! Etc... Etc. When it comes to corruption, to compare Kalonzo to Raila is like comparing Jesus to the multi-horned devil, and you know it deep in your malignant heart!!!!

Kalonzo's clean image was examined with a fine comb last year and it shone brighter than ever before. Don't panic that Kalonzo will defeat Raila in the next presidential elections.

We are talking corruption here. And we are asking what coordinating and supervising role Raila played in the Grand Regency scandal. He has been a staunch follower of Gaddaffi since late 1970s. And don't forget his brother, Oburu, is the assistant to Kimunya at the Treasury. I tell you, Ruffian Raila is smelling worse than a skunk in this scandal from Nairobi to Bondo.

This is a perception scandal not a legal scandal. The lawyers who examined this deal before it was okayed are not the jua kali Kajuang types. That is why it will be nearly impossible to punish the players even in a future administration.

Annon 7.17Am. I wonder where you live. I also wonder how ignorant you are! You claim that the Gova sold the hotel to the highset bidder! WHo were the other bidders? Where were the tender for the sale of the hotel advertised? Kimunya said just days ago that there was going to be no sale and there were no sale already.I find you to be one of those sycophant Kikuyu twats who sho never have access to any computer with internet.This sale is not about Kikuyus and the rest of Kenyan communities! It is theft of Kenyan built property with impunity!Kimumya said that the sale was done between Kibaki and Gaddafi. This makes Kibaki officially corrupt. Period.

Anon 7:58 if the sale was legit and above board why was kimunya dodgy and denied the sale ever took place?

and why hasn't kibaki come out in defence of the above board deal? after all as kimunya says its a govt to govt deal

Anon 8:17 I concur this is not about party or tribe. Kenyans are being fleeced, its said the goldenberg scheme will take 3 generations to recover from, and now the tools of recovery are being thrown away as well (grand regency and amnesty to the perpetrators).

Muta do?

there are several options as kenyans

starting from the bright side (civil and decent) of the scale moving towards the undesirable or rather to the more unconventional methods

".....why the president was so determined to fill the commission with his cronies. The idea was to prop up his own hand-picked chairperson..."---You are one interesting human being. There was no determination on the part of the President here. There was never need for any because that is what the constitution mandates him to do. Did you expect him to pack the ECK with Raila's or Kalonzo's "cronies"?

Phil, endelea kuota. How does splitting a political party amount to an affront to democracy? Having as many choices as possible, my frend, is what democracy should be about. No money was needed to split Kalonzo and Raila. I told you here last year that Kalonzo will never be under Raila. He was never going to blindly endorse Raila. For heavens sake he is not just another Mudavadi or Ruto. ODM K spent about Kshs 157 Million in last year's campaigns. Now is that the money that supposedly came from the Libyans? Kshs 157 million? Lying requires some inteligence, Phil.

About the sale of the Grand Regency, all I am seeing here and in the entire Kenyan Press are people yelling so loud without saying exactly what it is they are talking about. What was wrong with the government selling the hotel? Those fellows who, after reading 'The Standard' five times in a day, keep saying the real value of the hotel was kshs 9 billion or 10B, I have one questions for you; Who did this valuation? Give us the dates of the valuations please.

I will not defend anyone, especially when they steal from me as a Kenyan. But we have brains for heavens sake. The mere fact that James Orengo alleged impropriety in the sale does not amount to theft. He is entitled to his opinions, just like each one of us. He, together with those in this loud chorus should come out with facts and deny kimunya's assertions that the government received four offers and that this was the best. I mean, all I am asking here is for people to state explicitly what they think the government did wrong. Was it because Orengo was not involved?

You cannot call people thieves without saying what they stole and how the stealing was effected. Who stole what?

Lastly, if it turns out there was actual impropriety, four people are liable. Of course Amos Kimunya as the Finance minister is involved. prof Ndung'u is also involved. The President is a signatory to the deal and he should not attempt to sacrifice kimunya without him also having to go. We have seen this before. The other person is Raila Odinga. This deal cut across ministries (Finance, Lands and the AG chambers) and that is where his coordination was needed most. If he was successfully kept in the dark throughout the process of the sale, that shows how useless his offce is. We better get rid of it or even repace him with someone upto the task.

Phil,You have done a disservice to the Grand Regency discussion by dragging Kalonzo's name and ODMK/ODM's last year's fight. If your aim is to make him look corrupt, then you have failed miserably! He has not stolen a molasses plant like Raila!

Blogger Vikii @ 10.28 AM said...

Phil, endelea kuota. How does splitting a political party amount to an affront to democracy? Having as many choices as possible, my frend, is what democracy should be about. No money was needed to split Kalonzo and Raila. I told you here last year that Kalonzo will never be under Raila. He was never going to blindly endorse Raila. For heavens sake he is not just another Mudavadi or Ruto. ODM K spent about Kshs 157 Million in last year's campaigns. Now is that the money that supposedly came from the Libyans? Kshs 157 million? Lying requires some inteligence, Phil.

Libyan diplomats have confirmed that Kshs. 7b was wired as payment for Grand regency to the CBK.

Kimunya is talking about Kshs. 2.9b.

The balance funded ODM-K and PNU. This is a fact! Diversion of public funds for private political wars.

Vikii I want to add - independent property valuers are all over Nairobi and having spoken to three of them today - that hotel is being valued at approximately Kshs10b.

It is a big lie to value GR Hotel Kshs. 2.9b. Even at completion of construction in 1993 it was valued at much more. KACC had itself valued it at more than what Kimunya is calling a deal too good to turn down. Additionally, this is no office-block. This is a going concern that rakes in millions of shillings every day and it is situated on prime plot. It further enjoys massive goodwill from tourists and business visitors. This hotel is estimated to be worth anywhere between Kshs. 8 to 10 billion. Indeed Vikii, it is not the public's duty to provide valuation certificates.

Why were we duped into believing the hotel had not been sold when infact it had already been sold with some individual pocketing their commissions? Both Prof. Ndungu and Kimunya confirmed to parliament and to the public the htel had not been sold and would be sold in an open public auction.

We might not be intelligent as you put it Vikii, but we not idiots either!

great attempt to stay above the fray. but am a little surprised at your arguments.

1st - ECK commissioners there was an IPPG recommendation that even Moi honored resulting in the Kibaki win even though it was not in the constitution (prerogative nonsense is unwarranted) and its unfortunate that the one who benefited the most from this arrangement is the same one to trash it. note that he was the one that pushed for it as head of opposition at that time

2nd - Grand regency - its all the circumstances around the sale the deceit, the suspect valuation, purpoted amnesty, the whereabouts of 300-500m in bank balances, the random receivership circus, the denials that it had been sold, and so many others. this asset is some of the proceeds from a specific public fund looting which makes kenyans "shareholders" or interested parties and have a right on whether to keep or how to dispose of it. a handful of people cannot decide.

blaming raila for deal made and sealed in 2007 by an executive all powerful president, because of a position created in feb 2008 after much tug of war, a position that is still being undermined as late as june 2008, i have no comment because i know you are way too more sensible/smart and are trying to create a diversion so i will not fall for that. We need to use all our energies to get rid of corruption and these backhand deals.

Many people probably underestimate the import and impact these deals will have on us as individuals and the country at large. Already we are paying for the stupidity of past poor leadership 1963-2007, inflation being blamed on global recession etc but if you step back if we had not diverted and misused development funds, then ordinary wananchi would have various viable options and alternatives to cost cutting in order to cope, but here we are with nothing to fall back on and nothing to move forward with.

What exactly are you saying here? That Kalonzo's campaign was funded by Libyans? That Kalonzo's campaign had more to do with dirty money than Raila's? Dig deeper my friend and you, being a member of the ODM, will acknowledge that if any Libyam money was used in anybody's campaign, then that person was Raila Odinga.

While still on your little lectures about the role of dirty money in electoral politics, u need to revisit the role of 'Bishop' Gilbert Deya's money in Raila Odinga's campaign. We had this exact same disussion here last year and after I challenged you to stop demonising Moi, and instead concentrate on ridding your own party of corruption and drug money, you said even those taking Haroun Mwau's money for their campaigns were wrong. Then, like now, you were arguing from a position of ignorance, assuming that Mwau was indeed bankrolling Kalonzo's campaign just because he is kamba. In other words, Phil, you being an ODM youth winger, are the least qualified to audit people's campaigns.

All I'm telling you, friend, is to stop comparing Kalonzo's 'involvement' in corruption with Raila's. There is a world of a difference between their relationships with this vice. I am sure you know where each stands.

UrXlnc, my buddy, let us first understand the IPPG. Raila Odinga and James Orengo were opposed to this deal in 1997. It was DP's Martha Karua who literaaly pushed the deal through by talking to KANU. How Raila Odinga now becomes a champion of this deal is beyond my comprehension.

The Inter Party Parliamentary Group initiative was about PARLIAMENTARY parties forwarding nominees for appointment by the President to the Electoral Commission. None of the three parties in contention lasy year (atleast at thge Presidential level) were Parliamentary parties. These were new entities whose strengths were hard to assess. Now tell me the formula we would have used to appoint the commissioners. Understand that the NDP and the SDP, despite both recording impressive performances in 1997, had not played any role in the appointment of the 1997 commissioners. They were all nominated by KANU, DP, Ford Asili and Ford kenya. And again, this was purely at the discretion of the President. How someone who has been in Parliament for decades and failed to spearhead this kind of ammendment can turn around and accuse a competitor of not exercising his benevolence and according him some role in the appointment of commissioners, beats logic.

When again was the hotel sold?UrXlnc, both you and James Orengo cannot be telling the truth. One of you must be lying because he is talking about last week and you are talking about 2007.

About your estimation of my sensibility and smartness, whether a compliment or a barb, I am very proud of both. I have no reason whatsoever to divert attention. We have to get to the rock bottom of the matter. One way of doing so is by acquanting ourselves with facts and shunning Kinyozi talk.

Depreciation, wear and tare brings it to SH2.9 billion. The thing is it was sold before Pattni blocked the sale in a court of law and the most painful is that it was okayed by the president, Hon. Mwai Kibaki. Do what you like now. Quit the Coalition

".....why the president was so determined to fill the commission with his cronies. The idea was to prop up his own hand-picked chairperson..."---You are one interesting human being. There was no determination on the part of the President here. There was never need for any because that is what the constitution mandates him to do. Did you expect him to pack the ECK with Raila's or Kalonzo's "cronies"?

Our comment:

As noted by UrXlnc, we are also not surprised by your arguments, if at all, they can be so classified.

Any idiot knows/is aware, or should know/be aware of the IPPG deal. It is true that it was not enacted into the constitution.

However, for those who are informed in the matters of law, are aware of something called custom and usages. Thus, any custom and usage as established by the participants, is good law. IPPG, was and is such a custom and usage. Thus, your argument/opinion is hollow, pedestrian and of no value.

Vikii said:

About the sale of the Grand Regency, all I am seeing here and in the entire Kenyan Press are people yelling so loud without saying exactly what it is they are talking about. What was wrong with the government selling the hotel? Those fellows who, after reading 'The Standard' five times in a day, keep saying the real value of the hotel was kshs 9 billion or 10B, I have one questions for you; Who did this valuation? Give us the dates of the valuations please.

Our comments:

The attempt to convince us that we form our opinions based on Standard is utter nonsense. The idea that we are shouting in ignorance is rubbish.

The question is this, if we expropriate the hotel tomorrow, what will the Libyans demand as compensation in terms of the BIT from us?

They will demand compensation that meets the requirements of the fair market value in in terms of international law. This refers to the price a hypothetical willing buyer would pay to a hypothetical willing seller.

This means that the compensation due must be determined on the basis of fair market value as a going on concern. To this, is added the future earning prospects, good will and other intellectual properties associated with the property.

That being the case, you can only know the fair market value by putting the property on sale in a public auction. It is not so much a question of valuation, but, what the bidders would think is the value of the hotel.

Thus, all that we are shouting about is this, PUT THE HOTEL in the MARKET, and the highest bidder, even if he pays KES 20 billion, should get it. This should be so, because as we have noted above, is what we will be required by the Kenyan - Libya BIT to do, in the case of expropriation.

Is that too much to ask for? Or, is it too difficult for thee to understand Sir??

Vikii,BB here. First kudos. Very smart arguments and as always you nnever disspoint. Just a friendly albeit uninvited warning though pal, ON YOU WAY TO THE ROCK BOTTOM OF THE MATTER please watch for your head and make sure you don't land teh skull first, we need it please.

sound arguments. IPPG whether RAO Orengo and others were opposed is immaterial, that is just whipping up of emotions. Remember Kibaki is famed for the ridiculing those chopping the mugumo with a razor blade and yet here we are with him as primary beneficiary number one usind the logs to keep himself warm.

ECK composition point me to where our good man requested for inputs.

no i do not have need to deride you or your arguments, but have a problem with pple playing devils advocate to corruption. this is a cancer taking away tons of opportunity for kenyans, you will see and feel it in 15-20 years if not less.

also no need to state what i have not, i said it appears obvious that the deal was consummated in 2007, the actually SALE date Orengo and Kimunya, Kibaki may be in the know. Out of curiosity, do you believe that between the time that Kimunya said the hotel had not been sold to when it was sold, who valued the hotel, how did the Libyans ascertain the evaluation and proceed with the sale. tell me it was out of faith and trust of the seller, HA. That is a little more pedestrian/kinyozi I think. Are we to beleive that a property valued at say the 2B can get immediate buyers at the said price so quick no questions asked by a foreign investor. What guarantees are there on this investment considering the potential high risk kenya currently stands at with the volatile political climate. asked another way, would kenya buy a hotel in South Africa knowing the xenophobic inclination of that country without getting some other assurances.

I realise you are trying to approach this from the innocent till proven guilty and that is noble. would be justified if you could spend that energy looking out for the many hungry kenyans who cannot benefit from this corruption but have to pay for years to come through services denied/unavailable due to misuse of national resources. It really should be up to the political elite to show and openly demonstrate to the public that their dealings are above board rather than have the public scrambling to work through the govt maze, foggy assertions and smokescreens. they have resources to camouflage any deal, we the public can only react to the brave whistleblowers in the establishments.

Chief election thief (Kibaki), money thief (Kimunya), the chief promoter of corruption (Ringera), chief CBK thief (bandia prof. Ndungu), and the smartest money thief in the word (PS of Finance - Nyoike? or whatever) must all resign. These mungiki thieves must prosecuted and jailed forever. The wrong people are in jail.

Much has been said about Kalonzo. Mostly negatively but the question begs. Are you justified? Even assisting an accident victim is wrong? I wonder if it was RAO who did that you guys would be gloating and praising it here! What has he done that the major politicians, leaders that claim the highest office in the land have not mastered over the years. If its ditching parties Raila and Kibaki occupy the top slots. If its the matter of not supporting either of the strong sides tho' he seemed weak then the same fellas are again top. They are the main reason why unity was elusive in the opposition since introduction of multipartism untill they had to swallow their egos. If its taking appointments for personal gains Raila is a master He joined the Moi regime for selfish gains. What about reneging on promises, M.O.U's. Raila from the onset gave indication he would support Kalonzo for the presidency. What happened the last minute. Who's the Judas here? Was Kalonzo Railas disciple? Doesnt have right of choice? Aint he an independent person that he is subject to his whims? Who's responsible for typical tribal chauvinism and cleansing experienced in this country? Somebody has set his sights on Kalonzo and seems hell bend on spoiling his reputation but i can assure you no matter how many blogs you create it all a wasted effort. It cant and will never work.

Hatuta-do kitu, this is just another chunk of our Kenyan money down the drain. By the way, dont you see people here still supporting kina Kimunya? People diverting attention asking us how Kosgei made her cash.

When something is wrong, it is wrong! I wonder if we shall ever learn that. Kenyans!

This mwarang'the Usage and Customs fellow, you have declared war and I am not going to be part of it (sounds familiar?). I have neither the time nor the inclination to BARK about something I have already addressed in my second comment. Your assignment for this week is to try and understand what constitutes TRADITION. HINT; Time honoured practices.

UrXlnc, you seem to believe that I am the devil's advocate in this whole thing. I am NOT, believe you me. Let me tell you what makes me sick; We have a very stupid habit as Kenyans of concluding things even without sufficient information for doing so. This is the exact same thing with the elections. Those morons who shout the loudest about stolen elections do not even know what the ODM's (the aggrieved party's)position on the supposedly rigged election was. They never even took the time to learn what their party alleges is the true reflection of the outcome of the poll. Someone just told them the elections were rigged and there was never any need to further educate themselves on this issue. What they were told was final, after all 'The Standard' and 'Kumekucha' repeated it ever after. My point here, sir, is there is very little information out there we can base our arguments on. There is so much we don't know this soon after the disclosure. I said here that if kimunya has indeed defrauded Kenyans, he belongs in jail. He should resign and be made answerable. But believing everything the papers write as the gospel truth is not only wrong, it is dangerous.

Let me tell you why I find it hard to understand a lot of Kenyans. You have read a hundred and one comments since yesterday calling Kimunya, Prof Ndung'u (Some fellow even calls his professorship fake. I think it's because the don in question is a kikuyu or because he is not a member of the ODM where all professors should supposedly belong) and even President Kibaki "THIEVES". Why are they thieves? If you have noticed, all I have been asking since morning is for people to explain this theft. WHO STOLE WHAT? That is my question. The only information we have is the selling price, the nationalities of the buyers and of course the seller (The Kenya Govt). Every other detail is not in the Public domain OR has at least not found its way into kumekucha.

What we should be calling for is the Okemo-led commitee, the PAC to thoroughly grill the characters involved. They have already summoned the three ministers whose ministries were involved together with the AG. They should even go ahead and summon Hon Kibaki and demand answers from him. We should be lobbying for this commitee together with KACC to demand the production and tabling of every supporting documentation by the minister and the gorvernor. I believe this committee is impartial and I trust Mr. Okemo's leadership and desire to see to it that kenyans are not fleeced.The AG, being involved cannot ask the police to investigate the matter and as we all know, Ringera is not trustworthy. Now, the best punishment would be Parliamentary impeachment. If Parliament successfully passed a motion of censure/no confidence against the minister, the AG or even the President, they will have lost the moral authority to cling to their positions. That is why we need to let the PAC expeditiously handle this. Calling people thieves even when we have no idea why they are thieves is offensive, very much so!

The recent confirmation, by James Orengo (Minister of Lands) and Amos Kimunya (Minister of Finance) that the Grand Regency Hotel has been sold has convinced Mars Group Kenya that it is necessary to urgently revisit the issue of amnesty for grand corruption, and in particular the need to delete from our statutes two amnesty provisions (sections 25A and Section 56B of the Kenya Anti Corruption and Economic Crimes Act) which were irregularly brought into force by Presidential Assent on October 10th 2007, as part of the Statute Law (Miscellaneous) Amendments Bill of 2007. These two amnesty clauses are being used to perpetrate acts against the public interest and to compromise investigations into grand corruption, and the recovery of corruptly acquired Kenyan assets worth hundreds of billions of shillings.

Section 25A authorizes the cessation of investigations, and the granting of conditional amnesty to corruption suspects, by the Director of the Kenya Anti Corruption Commission, in consultation with the Attorney General and the Minister for Justice, in certain cases, despite the President having explicitly rejected proposals for amnesty contained in the Statute Law Miscellaneous Amendment Bill of 2007, including the infamous proviso to section 7 which purported to establish a cut-off date for the KACC’s exercise of its powers.

A further section 56B was also introduced and formed the basis of recent transactions related to the Goldenberg scandal and the Grand Regency Hotel, Nairobi. The inclusion of Anglo Leasing debts in the Budget of the Government of Kenya shortly after the return to Kenya of Deepak Kamani and the Kenya Anti Corruption Commission’s opaque conduct and responses to press revelations of Mr. Kamani’s presence in Kenya highlights the need for immediate action to ensure that the public interest is not compromised by the Executive branch.

Kenyans have been aware for some time of the terms of the Kamlesh Pattni settlement of April 9th 2008 in which he “surrendered” the Grand Regency Hotel to the Kenya Anti Corruption Commission, which gave it to the Central Bank of Kenya who held a charge over this Goldenberg property. What they may not have known is that the settlement was grounded in an illegal law namely section 56B of the Anti Corruption and Economic Crimes Act. The trouble is that this provision and another (section 25A) were sneaked into the Act after they had been deleted by Parliament.

If you read the report of the Committee on the Administration of Justice on the amendments to the Anti Corruption and Economic Crimes Act, which were contained in the Statute Law Miscellaneous Amendments Bill, and this statement by the Kenya Anti Corruption Commission it is clear that all the amnesty amendments proposed by the KACC (including the amnesty provisions s.25A and s.56B) were deleted - and instead the Committee recommended its own provisions which were subsequently refused assent by President Kibaki on September 27th 2007. At the time he said: “Amnesty is however a major policy and public interest issue which cannot be addressed within the context of this [Statute Law Miscellaneous Amendments] Bill and which can only be addressed through a separate comprehensive Bill.”

The Kenya Anti Corruption Commission complained that Parliament deleted all its proposed amendments including section 56 B which was subsequently used to immunize Kamlesh Pattni. How therefore did it end up being inserted in the Anti Corruption and Economic Crimes Act? It was never debated by Parliament. The President’s Memorandum shows that section 25A and section 56 B were not part of the Bill which he sent back to Parliament. So how did these sections end up in the Anti Corruption and Economic Crimes Act?

Who inserted these provisions into our laws? There is no record in Hansard of the Parliament (or any committee of Parliament) that shows any debate on these clauses. Nevertheless these clauses are today being used with alacrity to “settle” corruption investigations to the disadvantage of the Kenyan public interest and entrenching impunity by offering criminals statutory immunity from justice and asset recovery.

THE GRAND REGENCY SALE AND THE PATTNI IMMUNITY ARE BOTH ILLEGAL:

Kamlesh Pattni’s handover of the Grand Regency Hotel and the subsequent settlement of the civil cases against him are both based on these two illegal provisions. Mars Group Kenya complained about this and the Kenya National Commission on Human Rights adopted our complaint in letters to the Attorney General which state the facts as follows: there are laws on our books which were not properly enacted by Parliament as required by the Constitution of Kenya. These laws should be struck off as the Constitution does not allow any institution other than Parliament to amend our Acts of Parliament.

Incredibly since December 2007, the Attorney General has not responded to the Kenya National Commission on Human Rights. The question is why won’t the Attorney General respond to these letters? Is he unconcerned?

As to the sale of the Grand Regency Hotel to the Libyan Arab African Investments Company which has been confirmed by Finance Minister Kimunya at a price of Ksh 2.9 billion, the evidence will show that this hotel was worth Ksh 2.5 billion way back in 1994. Who conducted the valuation of the Grand Regency Hotel in 2008? Valuations are required before any public asset can be privatized, and the Minister of Finance knows this. What role, if any, has the Privatisation Commission played in this sale?

The Libyan role in this transaction is something our Parliament should investigate. They have been in the shadows for at least a year. In the early drafts of the Pattni settlement (allegedly drawn last year by Wetang’ula, Adan, Makokha & Company) it is apparent that the plot by Kamlesh Pattni and the Kenya Anti Corruption Commission to “handover” the Grand Regency Hotel was hatched only to allow the Central Bank’s plan to sell to an identified Libyan company. In June 2007, then Trade & Industry Minister Mukhisa Kituyi said “I cannot release details regarding the interest expressed by Libyans to purchase Grand Regency. The hotel is under receivership and any interested buyer should speak with the Central Bank, who is the official receiver.”

Kenyans should know that everything we have seen this year, from the April “Handover Ceremony” at the Grand Regency has been choreography to regulate illegal acts. Kenyans should know that we have been duped again by the Kenya Anti Corruption Commission which touts the recovery of the Grand Regency Hotel as its greatest ever gift to Kenyans – and the 6th greatest asset recovery in the history of the world. Our position is actually rather bleaker, and the KACC Director knows it. After spending over Ksh 5 billion funding the KACC these past 4 years, Kenyans need to know that their Government has effectively allowed the abandoning of the case against the architect of Goldenberg; allowed the shot-gun sale of a substantial asset for a song in breach of our privatization laws; and to add insult to injury has evinced absolutely no intention to recover anymore of the Ksh 158 billion that was stolen from us by Goldenberg International Limited and its official accomplices. Worse there is every reason to expect that the Anglo Leasing scandal which cost us Ksh 56.33 billion according to the Controller and Auditor General is to be dispensed with shortly using the same modus operandi.

Kenyans also need to know that it is exactly 691 days since Attorney General Amos Wako directed the Director of Public Prosecutions to file an appeal against the court judgement which immunized George Saitoti, now the Minister for Internal Security, from prosecution for criminal offences on the basis of the Goldenberg Commission of Inquiry Report. The Minister for Internal Security is the political head of the Criminal Investigations Department which was instructed by the Attorney General to follow up the Goldenberg Commission of Inquiry with investigations of those adversely named.

The cycle of impunity that allows public officers to act as if Kenya is a nation without law must be broken.

The sale of the Grand Regency Hotel is really a resignation issue for Amos Wako (the Attorney General), Amos Kimunya (the Minister of Finance), Aaron Ringera (the Director of the Kenya Anti Corruption Commission) and Njuguna Ndungu (the Governor of the Central Bank of Kenya). If these public officers won’t resign, let’s demand their immediate investigation and sacking. Finally, all public officers adversely named in reports of the Kenya Anti Corruption Commission, Judicial proceedings, and reports of the Parliamentary Watchdog committees about the Goldenberg affair must immediately stand interdicted if there is to be any justice in Kenya. Demand accountability and end impunity no

This mwarang'the Usage and Customs fellow, you have declared war and I am not going to be part of it (sounds familiar?). I have neither the time nor the inclination to BARK about something I have already addressed in my second comment. Your assignment for this week is to try and understand what constitutes TRADITION. HINT; Time honoured practices.

Our comment:

Well, you want to make it sound as if you are informed. But, it only exposes your ignorance. Simply, there is no particular time requirement for a custom to become law. The practice need to be reasonable, certain and well known. IPPG meets these requirements.

Thus, the issue of time honoured practices does not arise. Thus, seek not to teach us what you do not know.

Vikii said:

Let me tell you why I find it hard to understand a lot of Kenyans. You have read a hundred and one comments since yesterday calling Kimunya, Prof Ndung'u (Some fellow even calls his professorship fake. I think it's because the don in question is a kikuyu or because he is not a member of the ODM where all professors should supposedly belong) and even President Kibaki "THIEVES". Why are they thieves? If you have noticed, all I have been asking since morning is for people to explain this theft. WHO STOLE WHAT? That is my question. The only information we have is the selling price, the nationalities of the buyers and of course the seller (The Kenya Govt). Every other detail is not in the Public domain OR has at least not found its way into kumekucha.

Our comment:

1. As to the issue of Prof. Ndung'u, we very proud that we have something in common with him. We both schooled at the University of Gothenburg. A reputable university as they come. We therefore, seek not to question his educational achievements.

2. As concerns "WHO STOLE WHAT," it seems to us that you are not versed with Privatization, Procurement and Disposal of public property Laws of Kenya.

We can only beseech thee, to educate thyself with these laws. Once you have done that, thou shall understand better.

Therefore, we argue the way we argue because we are informed on the legal issues involved. It is up to you to educate thyself, or inquire from those who are informed.

Thus, the question is not why we are shouting. It is, why are you so uninformed/ignorant Sir?

I think you are oblivious of certain incontrovertible facts that stare down at your analysis. Frankly, I'm not sure how you arrive at your assessments, but perhaps only as a defense attorney would irrespective of the facts.

Spin it as you may, embrace the bravado of a caged bull or throw spanners at any argument that lays out the issues of concern albeit with little or facts separate your people from raping Kenya.

Come 2012, the Presidency will be watered down and the executive will lay with the PM who must command overwhelming regional respect and support. Let's see how the Uhuru's, Kalonzo's, Karua's and the Kimunyas subscribe to this.

Unless we covert the 2007 and the monster violence, the Presidency as we know it will no-longer exists nor will the personality types above.

It is because VIkii is writing the truth that most of you people do not want to read? To me, Vikii is writing the RIGHT stuff, away from the IDOL WORSHIP that a clutch of bloggers here are accustomed to. He is going FAR ahead of praising everything that you wish to castigate and backs it with impecable reason and discourse. Unfortunately, as they say FACTS are ARROGANT, VIkii's truth are so bitter that your only fightback is to castigate. Success unto thee.

It is because VIkii is writing the truth that most of you people do not want to read? To me, Vikii is writing the RIGHT stuff, away from the IDOL WORSHIP that a clutch of bloggers here are accustomed to. He is going FAR ahead of praising everything that you wish to castigate and backs it with impecable reason and discourse. Unfortunately, as they say FACTS are ARROGANT, VIkii's truth are so bitter that your only fightback is to castigate. Success unto thee.

Mwarang'ethe, what does 'CUSTOMS' mean to you? This is the same question I asked. Does something that happened ONCE become a custom? The IPPG was only applied shortly before the 1997 elections and your continued reference of it as a custom is quite frankly dumb.

I am not an attorney and I cannot pretend to be one. Since you have claimed so much knowledge on this, I will tell you what you already know; when laws are broken (and the IPPG initiave is law in your wonderful mind), those who break them should be taken to court. You are the first person I have heard term the IPPG deal law. Why don't you take those who broke it to court. That's what a patriotic Kenyan would do.

Your understanding of law as they taught it to you at Gothenburg is also suspect. This was never about LAW and I didn't introduce a legal perspective to the discussion at all. You did. Now, did they teach you that it was OK to call someone a THIEF without according them a fair trial in court or before a tribunal? Looks to me like you were not paying a lot of attention at Gothenburg.

Trukenyan, I am not a defense attorney here. I am no attorney at all. I wish I was one. If anything was stolen, then I am a complainant because it was stolen from me as a tax-paying Kenyan who has no association whatsoever with the system.

I am not spinning anything. I am just speaking against the mob justice system that we have come to so passionately embrace as a society. I know the 19th century years were great, but they are long gone.

About the post 2012 political dispensation, I understand well the need to respect your wishes. I have one question though; about the executive authority resting with the PM, where did you read that? I think someone lied to you. What difference does it make to take away the powers of the President and vest them in the Prime minister?

we will be having a discussion as a country on the system of government we want. Don't be suprised if you see two draft constitutions being subjected to a referendum. Whichever one passes will become our constitution. And what was the basis of this President-Prime minister talk BTW?

well, not to deride you vikii but it appears that you do not have sufficient exposure to the workings of the executive, which explains your disdain at the outrage.

let me pen this off with a slightly colorful pedestrian analogy

as a kenyan and ODM supporter my position is that we as kenyans have in the past been misled and messed up with by leaders and corrupt business entities.

we are now trying to chart and carve out new fresh paths forward and yet again as we follow the path behind the leaders, we suddenly come across right there in the path, yes a leader has or some leaders have taken a dump in the middle of the road and we now all have to navigate past. we are outraged that anyone should even dump on this new road, but some amongst us are bringing up arguments that maybe it was just a biological function, while others want to examine the "quality" of the dump to determine whether it is or not as potent or dangerous as claimed, those engaging on smokescreens prefer to say the "dumper" ate bad food etc. I say, he dumped where he shouldn't have and as a leader he knew better and must be removed from leadership. the rest of us are affected by the dump and so will those coming long after us.

Vikii you need to understand how the civil service works and how ministers operate. If you take an honest stab at that and still feel these jamaz are being railroaded then trully you are a different kind of person. As you say people are shouting thief, and you are shouting back saint. who is right, there's the catch, civilians have no real resources to conduct investigations to logical conclusion but this does not mean they are wrong. whereas leaders have sufficient control of resources to muzzle and camouflage deceit or if God forbid decide to actually investigate to get to the bottom of events. your siding with the more powerful entity knowing how difficult it is for wananchi to prove underhand dealings by the political elite maybe brave and just in your eyes, but in due course you will realise your folly and i hope then it will not be too late to fight the good fight.

some of the questions you ask are too obvious for those of us that have been in these circles and we simply have no place to start with explanation, it will take a long time. if you know someone who's been a civil servant try to inquire from them how it all works.

Vikii wrote'"About the post 2012 political dispensation, I understand well the need to respect your wishes. I have one question though; about the executive authority resting with the PM, where did you read that? I think someone lied to you. What difference does it make to take away the powers of the President and vest them in the Prime minister?"

I assume you are a keen student of history, politics, reality, trends and timing. I'm also certain you are aware of in depth discussion(s)on Kenyaimagine and other outlets regarding this issue and assuming you were, (I hope I don't assume to much in your respect), you ought to know by now that and Executive PM,be he or she from Western, Central Coast or the Middle lands wouldn't command the autocratic positioning of the current Executive.

You also must be aware that the 3 branches of Government, the Executive, Parliament and Judiciary cannot continue to act based on the current document nor the sudden awareness of ethnic tensions; as if we didn't know.

Now, you can throw one-liners like, 'where did you read that": or some kindergarten argument to that extent, fact is, politicians are all the same and the sooner we, the citizens, begin to realign and gains some control over our destiny, Kenya's future is as good as your conjecture, dead in the water.

To assert control as a citizen, a Parliamentary system of government, evolved to reassure both you and I of certain inalienable rights and not convenient rights as the Executive, Parliament or the Judiciary chooses or plays 'whack' 'whack', is, in my view and that of the Bomas Draft with the exception to Majimbo the sure way forward.

Your understanding of law as they taught it to you at Gothenburg is also suspect. This was never about LAW and I didn't introduce a legal perspective to the discussion at all. You did. Now, did they teach you that it was OK to call someone a THIEF without according them a fair trial in court or before a tribunal? Looks to me like you were not paying a lot of attention at Gothenburg.

Our comment:

To us, you seem very confused. Sample this:

You ask us which law was broken by Kimunya and his co. We inform thee, it is Privatization Act 2 of 2005.

You answer majestically, this is not an argument about LAW. It is about what Sir?

Well, we can only hope you have the wisdom to see how confused you are.

Trukenyan, I have tremendous respect for KenyaImagine. I am encouraged by the good work they are doing. They, however do not shape my reasoning in any little way. Go ahead and take your cues from them because it is perfectly within your rights to do so.

I want to ignore the grade two civics about the three arms of government. It doesn't make much sense revisiting it.

The Bomas draft is a draft we can subject to a referendum even tomorrow, but believe you me it will be rejected by kenyans. Lest you label me an establishment man keen to preserve the Imperial Presidency we have, I will tell you what my views are on the need for a balance of power. First, I CAMPAIGNED in my own little way fiercely against the Wako draft in 2005. I was as happy as anybody else when Kenyans rejected that document.

We need a new and good constitution. Everybody knows that. Reducing the powers of the President should be core in our costitutional review. What I differ with you, the kenyan Press and our deceptive politicians on is this imagination that the powers sliced from the Presidency must be vested in the prime minister's office. I do NOT think we need a Prime Minister. The President/executive needs to share power with an institution called Parliament. Parliament has its own leadership; The Speaker, The Government Chief Whip and the oppposiition Chief whip. Watering down the powers of the President means empowering Parliament. For instance, our President can veto a bill passed by 200 MPs today.We need to make it clear that a bill passed by a clear MAJORITY of all members of Parliament has to be assented to by the President. With a Parliament so powerful, who needs a Prime Minister?

You notice that I am rooting for the same hybrid system leaning more towards a Presidential system but with better checks in place. My very strong opposition to a Parliamentary system of government stems from a firm belief I have that a country's chief executive needs to be elected directly by the people. Back-door ascent to power should have no place in our politics. That is why i think the United kingdom, just like kenya, has a long way to go before attaining real democracy.

What I am saying is, the Bomas Draft, despite all the sugar-coated talk by politicians, is and will always be a fantasy document. It will/should never see the light of day.

Urlnx, I am not shouting SAINT. I am calling for sobriety in this whole thing. The PAC has already issued its summons. The Prime Minister has said he will be meeting a cabinet committe to deliberate on this. The Lands minister has said he will be asking for all the documentations about the sale. Why are we then shouting THIEF? We need to give those accused an opportunity to be heard. Prosecuting people through the press and political podiums is not the way to go. it has never been.

Get me clear, I am not defending Kimunya. If the Lands commisioner and his subordinates are insisting they were forced to sign authorizing the transfer by Treasury and we are ready to escuse them, then we also need to examine our honesty. The minister can also claim that this was a deal between Presidents Kibaki and Gadaffi. He can also claim that he was under pressure from his boss. That is why if anybody has to go (and the calls for the minister to resign are legitimate), then we should not spare the Commissioner of lands and President Mwai Kibaki. If anybody needs to step aside to allow for impartial investigations, the President should start. We have seen it in all the scandals we have had; One or two heads are sacrificed to please the masses and we move on. President Mwai Kibaki should step aside for investigations. How about thyat?Why the obsession with minister Kimunya?

Vikii said... Mwarang'ethe, what does 'CUSTOMS' mean to you? This is the same question I asked. Does something that happened ONCE become a custom? The IPPG was only applied shortly before the 1997 elections and your continued reference of it as a custom is quite frankly dumb.

Our comments:

(1) We have already tackled the issue of time. It is not a matter of longevity. It is not just our opinion, but, the opinion of legal authors of great authority, as well as case law.

(2) Furthermore, within these principles, we can also invoke the principle of legitimate expectation in relation to IPPG.

Vikii said... Mwarang'ethe, what does 'CUSTOMS' mean to you? This is the same question I asked. Does something that happened ONCE become a custom? The IPPG was only applied shortly before the 1997 elections and your continued reference of it as a custom is quite frankly dumb.

Our comments:

(1) We have already tackled the issue of time. It is not a matter of longevity. It is not just our opinion, but, the opinion of legal authors of great authority, as well as case law.

(2) Furthermore, within these principles, we can also invoke the principle of legitimate expectation in relation to IPPG.

Dear oh, dear! I have always thought from the day that the ACCORD was signed that Raila Odinga is an EXECUTIVE PM. What happened, I do not know, but from the goings-on in the country, I think the centre of power is positioned elsewhere and Raila has powers that are either curtailed, swallowed by Mwai Kibaki or not at all. According to the government set-up, Kalonzo Musyoka is the president's principal deputy. Stop.

Then, ODMers should go back and think about the NO they voted to stop the referendum. The thing happening now is that Kibaki is just traeting you people the way you want to be governed using the archaic contitution. The constitution that was rejected was 80% okay, except a 'few knocks' that could have been ironed after the elections, or even before the elections.

As for IPPG, Vikkii is right many times in that, the parties in the government nominate members to the Electoral Commission. At the time Mwai Kibaki was naming the members of the EC, ODM was not a registered party and according to the little information that I have, there were NO ODM MPs. All those in ODM were either NARC or KANU, thus KIbaki used the executive powers that the ODM allowed him to use after the 2005 referendum.

Rotten Kenyan CooffeeThat Kenya produces of excellent coffee is no secret!. Kenyan Coffee is used to blend other coffees from other parts of the World. But here, this Kenyan coffee smells rotten... Rotten to the core. Rotten as it gets!!!

Of course I am talking about Grand Coffee aka Grand Regency. I majored in Maths so I am not afraid to indulge in it. But Kenyan politicians seem not to know maths even though some of them have BSc Eco. from uni. of Nairobi. Look at this perculiar scenerio. Ap plot of land along Uhuru Highway next to Grand Regency meted at 1 acre is sold to a buyer for Kshs.1.6Billion. This 1 qcre plot is not developed. But a nearby plot measuring 2 Acres on whom a 5 Star Grand Regency hotel stands is sold for KShs.2.9Billions!!!

Mmmmm. Logic woukd have it that the 2 acre plot whould go for 2x1.6=3.2 Billions shillings. Then the price of the property on the premise. My basic economics says that any development on a piece of land appreciates the value of the Land! In this Kenayns case study the land and its development depreciated instead!Good economics? Not in my book. I wonder how proud LSE is of some its earlier graduates! Do they deserve the papers they were given by the prestigious College! I wonder.

This Kenyan Coffee smells rotten and it will be a case study for many a students of economics world over of how not to undertake prudent business.

whereas I applaud the effort of these MPs and leaders I am not convinced of the methodology

Last year or the other year we saw for the first time a cabinet minister (Charity Ngilu then minister of health) humiliated by police acting under the instructions of Michuki

Nothing has changed in terms of how the few power brokers or kitchen cabinet as is popularly called still call the shots.

We do not want another round of tear-gas and cat & mouse games. We want a parliament with teeth to reign in corrupt ministers and public service officers.

Mass action with protests and demonstrations should be the last resort and can only achieve results when life is lost and/or many maimed. We are willing to do this, but the MPs must pull their weight and use the instruments and resources available to them which include reasoning with the errant ministers and officers to step down, as well as read their manuals of operation and come up with firm steps to take. Only when this has failed should the public be mobilised to launch decisive protest action.

The Bomas Draft was flawed in that it did not reflect the views of all Kenyans, it is very well known that those delegates were heavily affiliated to political parties, and that is a dangerous way to create a constitution. The existing constitution may be terrible, but it isnt a bad spring board to create a new one, what needs to happen is some decentralization of powers, not to a prime minister, but to some form of senate, which will be representative of all the ethnic, gender, religious and class groups in Kenya. It would essentially act as a check and balance on the parliament and the parliament on the executive. Then, they need to find a way of strengthening regional autonomy, but that comes at the price of less dependence on central government fiscal resources. It is all obviously easier said than done, but for the sake of peace it should be tried.

These amendments can be started with the current constitution, whilst we painstakingly create another constitution. Bear in mind that the new one should last a very long time, it would be wrong to use the Bomas Draft after what has happened when it had so many flaws.

This Grand Regency thing exposes the very problem with our constitution, it protects dodgy dealings, yet at the same time, it provides too many loopholes for manipulation, either into lies and exaggerations, and both sides of the coalition are very guilty.

Mwarang'ethe, can you quote any of my comments verbatim about Kimunya having broken some law? There is a hell of a difference between something right and something legal, just as something can be wrong but not illegal. You appear to me as epitomizing cowboy attorneys.

Kenya's quest for a new constitution has been adopted by several Ivy League institutions as a framework of how extensive such consultations can go and the pitfalls of a largely divided society in search on the same.

The consultations and the organs that led to the Bomas Draft are the most comprehensive all inclusive framework anywhere in the world. We can claim that much. We can also claim the dubious distinction of insidious political will that led to the Wako Draft: A hijack of the process.

Now to argue we need another "New Forum" to discuss another Constitution, you mock the very efforts that went into the Bomas Consultations and the eventual walk-out led by former VP Awori; a tragic figure in my view.

You can't throw spanners at everything logical and just while defending a position that is isolationist as the Presidency itself. Kenya's Presidency as we know, I guarantee you, will be no more and the movement to ensure that this reality is our reality is overwhelmingly patriotic and right.

i will address this just one more time because i think you genuinely are trying to get a better handle of issues

for the record, it would be worthwhile to note that i worked briefly at Min of Fin several years back and got to know the inner workings and even got to understand the underhand dealings that took place. Even worked on a project run by someone who is currently on the run for the Anglo Leasing scam one Dr Kettering but who knows what or how many other countless scams that never caught the public eye. That group in my department am glad to note were among the first whistle-blowers of the time some just fresh from university with zeal and bright ideas on how to serve the nation and our countrymen/women. Most of us left for greener pastures but we made it our business to understand the processes very well. Like I said earlier, make it a point to consult with someone in the know, then venture with your actually very sound arguments which however I'm sorry to say are due to lack of familiarity with what really happens out there. I think that in the end we will be on the same side, but we will expend some considerable amount of energy and time to get there. We sometimes mention known persons here like Imanyara, Githongo, Kiai and others, this is not to score points or sound important or just for the heck of name dropping. Even as you go for the micro detail learn to not be so engrossed that you cant see the forest for the trees, its part of a maturing process. But as always am glad you ask these questions to put things in perspective. The onus is on you even as you apply your intellectual probes, that in the process you do not inadvertently provide the lifeline and conduit of escape that these thugs are desperately in need of.

anon who used the rotten coffee analogy , you are spot on that is some deep shit you got there , im afraid even i hadnt thought of things from that perspective , kweli we are in for a ride and we still have what ? 41/2 years!, by then we will have sold the entire country to foreigners.