WIND Mobile expands network into Brantford and Paris, Ontario

WIND Mobile recently announced that it surpassed 735,000 active wireless subscribers. During the 2014 Canadian Telecom Summit, Tony Lacavera, CEO of WIND Mobile, noted that the carrier is seeing an average customer usage of 1.5GB of data per month, and over 90% of all devices sold are smartphones, with 85% running Android.

From a network perspective, WIND has now installed over 1,400 cell sites across Canada and a short time ago enabled Dual-Carrier HSPA+ speeds that top out at 42Mbps. As promised expected, WIND has now expanded its wireless service to include both Brantford and Paris, Ontario. The coverage seems to be expansive in both new regions and seems to be HPSA+ for now.

WIND is looking forward to the upcoming 2500Mhz auction next year, and Lacavera also stated the only way his company will see LTE to partner up with other newer carriers such as Mobilicity, Videotron or Shaw. “The reality is that the business of Wind is doing far better than has been reported by both the media and analysts. We’re here to stay,” said Lacavera at the CTS 2014 event.

I hope WIND holds up on their promise to have unlimited Canadian roaming this year.

It’s Me

When did they promise that? For them to offer that would require government regulation of what Rogers and bell can charge them.

Right now rogers charges Wind $1000/GB. Not sure how they could offer unlimited roaming with those costs.

Andrew English

You haven’t been paying attention to the news have you? The Federal government is going to cap the amount of money Rogers, Bell, or Telus can charge 3rd parties for using their towers and such, the cap will lower the rates as they are too high as it is. This will allow WIND to offer unlimited Roaming in Canada as their contract comes up for renewal closer to the end of this year, after the Government forces the caps.

It’s Me

I have been actually.

That article you posted doesn’t quote wind making a promise about unlimited. At best it is mobile syrups inference based on the speculated upcoming regulation.

Further, have you looked into the formula that the government is considering for domestic roaming? It would involve taking the average per unit rate the carrier charges their own customers at retail and using that value as the wholesale rate they would charge Wind. That doesn’t make for affordable unlimited plans.

And yes, 5 years ago there was only Rogers for Wing to negotiate with. Do you think 3 completely unmotivated sellers are any better than one unmotivated seller?

I’m sure wind would love to offer unlimited Canadian roaming. But you’ve not shown where they promised this (an unsupported statement by a writer in an article is not a quote). The regulation is needed but only if it goes far enough which so far doesn’t seem to be the case and adding Bell and Telus doesn’t mean much given their collusion with Rogers to this point.

Andrew English

Wow only kids belittle people. I hope your happy kid!

It’s Me

What exactly makes you feel belittled?

My post was nothing but respectful. Not sure what slight you are imagining. Kid.

But next time, don’t lecture people about not paying attention. You’re likely to be shown up.

marorun1982

Sadly It’s Me you do belittle people to some extend.
You need to be a bit more respectful of others but i guess i am not the only one who see this…

I dont like playing around with word and i usualy only target ppl like you btw.

Its not spécific words but more the way its said.

It’s Me

Again, where did I belittle him? It’s OK to admit that I didn’t. Because I didn’t.

JTon

Says the guy who started off with “You haven’t been paying attention to the news have you?”. Face palm times a million

It’s Me

I’ll ask you as a third party…what part of my post belittled him? I am honestly confused.

marorun1982

Its the way you always want to be right and put everyone back into there place even if its dont give you anything So thats about it.

It’s Me

What are you talking about? You post stalk me daily and make comments that are difficult to parse and make little sense. Does that mean you are trying to belittle me every time you post?

Again, what part of my post belittled him?

marorun1982

You are really funny thats why i like to stalk your post daily

It’s Me

Well, if you are looking for companionship. I’m taken. Maybe try eHarmony. I am sure there are lots of funny, single guys there for you to meet

Jakob

Asking for what part of your post was belittling seems to be like pissing in the Wind (pun!). Some people’s feelings just get hurt easily I guess.

It’s Me

I guess so. I was respectful (I thought so anyway and no one has pointed out any different) and simply presented some facts. Not sure why he then got butt hurt and accused me of belittling him.

I get people being sensitive and even overly sensitive. But at this point I’m just stumped. I guess he takes correction as insult.

JTon

You didn’t belittle him and I think you know that. So don’t worry about it. Dude is a very poor sport (you owned him earth shatteringly hard with a lot of class)

It’s Me

For those not paying attention, here is the regulated cost formula being proposed. Note that charging Wind their own average retail rates will mean Wind is still forced to over pay.

The new budget Bill C-31 includes amendments to the Telecommunications Act, which set a formula for capping the domestic inter-carrier roaming rates.

Bill C-31, pp.157-159
(PDF)

DIVISION 16
TELECOMMUNICATIONS ACT
Amendments to the Act
…

[Roaming cap — wireless voice calls]

27.1 (1) The amount charged during a year
by a Canadian carrier to a second Canadian car-
rier for roaming services with respect to the
transmission of all domestic wireless voice
calls and the domestic portion of all interna-
tional wireless voice calls shall not exceed the
amount determined by the formula
A/B
where
A is the first Canadian carrier’s total retail
revenues from the provision of wireless
voice call services to its Canadian sub-
scribers, for calls both originating and ter-
minating in Canada, for the preceding year; and
B is the number of minutes provided for those
calls for the preceding year.

[Roaming cap —wireless data]

(2) The amount charged during a year by a
Canadian carrier to a second Canadian carrier
for roaming services with respect to the trans-
mission of wireless data in Canada shall not ex-
ceed the amount determined by the formula
A/B
where
A is the first Canadian carrier’s total retail
revenues from the provision of wireless da-
ta services in Canada to its Canadian sub-
scribers for the preceding year; and
B is the number of megabytes provided for
those data services for the preceding year.

[Roaming cap — text messages]

(3) The amount charged during a year by a
Canadian carrier to a second Canadian carrier
for roaming services with respect to the trans-
mission of all domestic wireless text messages
and the domestic portion of all international
wireless text messages shall not exceed the
amount determined by the formula
A/B
where
A is the first Canadian carrier’s total retail
revenues from the provision of wireless text
message services to its Canadian sub-
scribers, for text messages both originating
and terminating in Canada, for the preced-
ing year; and
B is the number of those text messages for the
preceding year.

[No additional charge]

(4) The Canadian carrier shall not charge the
second Canadian carrier any other amount in
relation to the provision of the roaming services
referred to in subsections (1) to (3)

[Inconsistency]

(5) The amount established by the Commis-
sion that a Canadian carrier can charge to a sec-
ond Canadian carrier for roaming services pre-
vails over an amount determined under any of
subsections (1) to (3) to the extent of any in-
consistency.

Accophox

Well, it wouldn’t be infinite… but hey, roaming at $.03/MB, assuming $30/1GB… wouldn’t be bad, given that the current rate is $1/MB.

It’s Me

Sure, but extrapolate that to what they’d have to charge, at those rates, for “unlimited”. Taking the common soft cap for unlimited plans of 5GB. Would you pay $150 for an unlimited Canadian roaming?

Accophox

No. Don’t get me wrong – I don’t see infinite roaming working, period, in Canada. The incumbents have *way* too much to lose by making Wind seem more appealing.

But you could do “infinite” data at EDGE/128Kbit speeds, as a way to get around that. That being said, if you managed to sustain for an entire month straight, it’s still ~40GB.

Accophox

Still, on the other hand, I think the most reasonable rate would be pinned to the minimum market rate that the incumbents offer for data services.

IE, mobile internet, you can get a market rate of about 15GB for $105 => $0.007/MB.

It’s Me

I think the wholesale rate should be tied to their retail rates less a substantial discount to allow the buyer (Wind) a reasonable margin on their retail. This would be inline with regulation on wholesale rates for landline ISP.

For data, they should take the best price the carriers charge their customers and discount it by say 25%. That would then be the wholesale rate they could charge Wind.

Let’s say the $30/6GB is the best rogers offers, so $5/GB. Then they would charge wind $3.75/GB and wind could charge $30/6GB (or less) and actually have a chance to have a margin.

Accophox

And I agree, but if we’re being realistic here… that’s not happening. Although, a small thought. Amtrak contracts out to AT&T to provide Wifi for train passengers on the Cascades route, which services Vancouver; AT&T must be paying one of the carriers in Canada for the data being used.

There’s no way that AT&T is paying the same $1000/GB rate that Rogers charges – it’d be impossible to provide service up here on that route for a profit (or not at a substantial loss even). Knowing this would allow for more realistic approximations of a reasonable wholesale data rate.

It’s Me

Correct. ATT likely pays closer to $0.10/100MB or around $1/GB. That is the rate Wind mentions they pay the US carriers, so I expect the much larger Canadian carrier pay and charge the US carriers in the same ballpark in their reciprocal agreements, if not even less.

marorun1982

Yes and no the more you buy at the same time the better the rate.
So they should make it thats by exemple 0 to 1024 mb would be at 0.03$ then its could lower slowly toward to by exemple when you hit 3 gb from 3 gb to 6 gb its lower to 0.02$ and so on this way you respect the fact thats you need to use more per month to get a better price wich is logical in any market.

Nexzen

Videotron has already released an all inclusive unlimited roaming plan that includes roaming in the states and Canada for $95

It’s Me

Videotron had something to offer in return for sane rates. TBayTel did too and so rogers let’s their users roam for free.

wind didn’t , doesn’t . Here’s hoping the regs go far enough.

marorun1982

No i would instead take a 150$ unlimited Canada and USA ( including roaming ) with 2 gb of north america data plan from Telus Buisness ( quite easy to open a buisness personal account )

It’s Me

Hope you travel a lot, like half your year, in the US. Otherwise, IMO, paying $150 for 2GB of data is unreasonable. That 2GB, even if completely used in the US, would cost Telus about $2 (according to Lockie’s testimony to the Senate and documents all carriers had to submit to the regulators). That is insane markup.

marorun1982

I dont think so as i do travel a lots first and second i like to be able to get full reception everywhere whitout having any roaming fee at all.

I have client thats before this spent like 500$ a month because they half the time in the US ( all around the USA ) and the others half all around Canada and need to always have the same number.

Raji Alrazi

Unlimited U.S. roaming for $15 is super amazing from Wind.

marorun1982

As long as its a cap per unite ( cap per mb of data used or cap per number of min used ) i see no problem with this.
But if they cap it to a maximum amount in total thats juste not right they need to at least pay same price as the sub of the big 3 pay to use the network.

Fido pay something to rogers ( yeah they do even if its same company at the core ) same thing for koodo ect.

i also sadly never saw anything about a canada wide unlimited roaming promise.

j3j

Rogers doesn’t charge Wind $1000/GB. We have no idea what Rogers charges them and Wind has never told us. $1000/GB is just what Wind charges its customers when roaming. Make no mistake about it. Wind makes money on this.

“The most important rate in a roaming agreement is for data roaming. When one of our subscribers is on the roaming provider’s network, consuming data quickly becomes by far the biggest expense. That is when you hear in the news about nightmare experiences people have when they are travelling and roaming and receive bills for several thousand dollars. We passed that rate on to our customers, as we must do ‑‑ and I will speak to that in a moment. It was $1,000 per gigabyte. Compare that to the rate of $5 per gigabyte at the retail level and you get a sense of how egregious that rate was.“

We do know. We know Wind makes nothing on domestic roaming. We know they charge what rogers charges them.

We know they pay rogers, literally, hundreds or thousands of times what they pay for foreign roaming.

Nexzen

The CEO said it is coming by the end of the summer, they are waiting for their contract with rogers to end to negotiate a new one. The govt will force Rogers to lower their prices are share towers. Videotron has already released an all unlimited roaming in Canada and USA plan for $95.

It’s Me

But will the government go far enough. If you look at the formulas I posted above, then unlimited doesn’t seem feasible, at least not at reasonable rates.

if they use the proposed formula, then Wind would pay, per MB, what you would pay Rogers, per MB, at retail. If Wind pays the big 3 retail rates, the best they could charge customers, with no profit, would be the same rates the big 3 charge.

Andrew_notPorC

I think that would be acceptable, for roaming.

marorun1982

I agree unlimited Data roaming is a dream.

5Gs

They did not promise but their hint towards such path sound promising. Which I believe is going to be imminent.

It’s Me

And I hope it is.

BB BB

Yes hopefully that is the news we are waiting for on Monday then I can ditch the venomous snake Rogers once and for all

deltatux

That explains why I had full signal last week when I went into Brantford visiting a client, I was rather puzzled and worried at first when I looked at the coverage map and didn’t see any coverage. Though I think it’s sad that I got much better signal in Brantford than I have in Richmond Hill where I’m from. WIND has been operating in RH since they started yet it’s still spotty as hell.

Rat in Toronto

Do you know that Rebeltus motivate local residents to block any new tower development?

deltatux

Really? They have never come door-to-door or raise any awareness to their cause…

Jeremy Herring

given the network won’t be as overcrowded as it is in downtown Toronto where data basically doesn’t work, hopefully they do well there.

KiwiBri

is it that bad downtown? maybe i’ll stay with robbers 6gb plan…

MobiDude

they guna increase pay, ru

OgtheDim

Funny but I never have issues with Data downtown?

Or do you consider Downsview downtown?

deltatux

I only see the issue when I’m at Yonge/Dundas.

Jeremy Herring

University and dundas… I never had a speed test result over 1mbps in the 3 months I was with them. Service was OK in the evening near my home at bloor and dundas west

Benjamin Lehto

Dear WIND, please just fill up the coverage holes so we can drive the 401 straight from Ajax to Windsor and not lose service. Selfishly I’m talking about the big gaping hole @ Cambridge & Kitchener.

disqusmy

You will get that if wind stays alive long enough, or the roaming cap passed with reasonable condition.

deltatux

This I concur, though it’s variable, sometimes I get signal, sometimes I don’t. It’s not a giant hole, it’s like swiss cheese really.

It’s Me

And you’re a high roller that swallows whatever is put in your mouth (you must be fun at certain parties BTW) by paying whatever the big 3 tell you to pay? You are a Rogers wet dream I guess.

Fools and their money are soon parted. There is nothing wrong with trying to get better value for your money instead of just paying more in order to feel better about yourself. Unnecessarily paying more and attacking others that look for better value shows a distinct insecurity about your financial position.

NotARogersEmployee

I agree with you, there’s nothing wrong with it at all. Sadly, some people think buying the brand name or more expensive version makes them better than those who do not or cannot. Pathetic.

OgtheDim

Strongly agree.

Iphone discussions come to mind.

It’s Me

As do Samsung discussions.

marorun1982

Funny i feel te same way you do toward this guy but i feel it toward Iphone buyers lol.

This is why i use android phone i get better value for my money and i dont feel i need to pay more for an iphone thats will do less just for the brand to look good and look rich

It’s Me

And if an iPhone user popped into a discussion about Android and said you were on welfare, then you’d have a point in calling him out on it.

If someone chose to use Rogers, that’s fine. But if they want visit Wind topic just to attack people on Wind as being poor then that is just ignorant.

Not sure what your point was.

marorun1982

My point was thats i am on your side on this topic
I just gave an example of a similar situation.

Its always better to get the best value for your money instead of buying for a brand and to look good.

Iphones are a good example of device thats you pay too much for what you get. Its far from been a bad device i just say its overpriced just like the big 3 plan price are overpriced.

So i agree its ignorant to call make others look poor or bad because they dont use the most known or popular brand around.

It’s Me

How are iPhones a good example of that any more than any other flagship phone is? They all sell within a similar price range yet most use the same of the shelf parts and OS that cheaper models use. Shouldn’t using a free OS and the same mass produced parts that almost every other similar devices uses mean they should sell for far less than a device with customized hardware and software? A custom tailored suit will cost more than an off the rack suit from Moore’s.

I know people like to use the iPhone as an example. And maybe they have a point. Just doesn’t seem to be a very strong one.

marorun1982

Well they got the biggest profit margin of the cellphone industry.
They use cheapest part possible to make as much per phone as possible this make them cheaper in fact as out of 10 iphones sold at least 1 or 2 will comme back in the next 12 months where htc one (M7 and m8) in fact out of 30-40 M7 I sold only one had a problem as for m8 I only sold about 7 or 8 and none came back.

I think you forgot a phone is more than only the soc (even if soc are often customized for each oem and even each region for baseband and such)… You have the memory, screen, baseband, cooling and casing.

Did you know Apple use of the shelve part for: screen( it’s same screen tech as in lg and htc phone just size is different) memory (cheap samsung one too) and Qualcomm baseband chip? (they not good enuf to integrate it in the A7?)

So don’t play around with words.

When the iPhone 5s cost as much if not less than flagship android phone and sell at higher price it’s called overpriced.

So my example is valid.
When you buy an iPhone a part of the reasons behind it is to be cool or as we say in french (être à la mode)

I asked my clients and beside one or two they all agreed it’s was in part because its popular and everyone want one.

As you did not had good arguments and again tryed to play with word I won’t reply to your future reply on this thread as you clearly are brainwashed toward apple.

It’s Me

Actually, their displays are also customized. They spend large amounts on things like in-cell technology and bonding of the component layers, backlight film reduction and now on-cell displays. This is in addition to R&D into new materials like sapphire. or they could have cheaped out and just bought off the shelf displays, the others. If you want the cheapest parts, just buy what everyone else is using. No R&D costs needed.

And the “customization” of some SOCs pales compared to the investment needed to customize your own ARM design and the source a fab to build your custom design instead of just providing some specs for an off the shelve part. Giving basic specs to the source for things like the frequencies or baseband support is no more a customized part that telling a sales person what colour t-shirt you’d like to buy. if you instead provide them with your own design, tell them what manufacturing process they will use, the materials they will use and the exact measurements (not just S,M,L) then it is a customize piece of clothing.

If they used the cheapest possible parts, they’d be using off the shelf ARM designs, plastic shells, displays and a third party OS.

It’s not playing with words, they are facts. I don’t generally go to a retail employee for technical advice (because retail employees are generally not educated in technology), but I still expect better from you. You’re misconceptions and misinformation are not serving your customers well. I hope you at least provide a smile.

d3v14n7

You get what you pay for…

If you want to pay less for slow data that’s unusable during peak hours and after you hit your cap, poor signal, extremely limited coverage and home zones in only a handful of locations in Canada (if you actually get coverage in those zones to begin with), over saturated cell towers, limited number of devices, huge roaming charges when outside of home zones and so on… Then please, be my guest and go with Wind and pay your $50 a month for service you can barely use…

For those of us who need reliable service anywhere they are within Canada, reliable and fast LTE data that won’t be throttled to uselessness if/when you need to use it, not to mention LTE data that is available in most cities (more than Wind’s entire home zone coverage), more features, more devices available and overall, just better service all around, we’ll stick with one of the Big 3, they may be more expensive, but the reliability, available features and nation wide coverage is priceless…

Cost isn’t everything, it all comes down to what the user needs, and for many, Wind isn’t able to offer that, that’s IF Wind is even available in their area at all…

It’s Me

I don’t disagree with any of that. I take issue with some asshat putting people down for using wind.

As far as getting what you pay for, one really only has hope that that is true. In some cases you pay more than what you get. That’s called overpaying. It happens.

And hopefully with proper regulation, wind users won’t have to deal with insanely unreasonable roaming rates or limited coverage.

d3v14n7

That’s another problem, regulation… While it can sometimes be a good thing, other times, too much regulation is bad for everyone else involved, including customers. Why should other carriers be forced to make up for Wind’s inability or refusal to upgrade their infrastructure not to mention expand beyond certain areas? Or for Wind’s parent company to invest more into Wind so that they can properly compete in Canada? The fact is, they did themselves and their customers a disservice by not participating in the recent spectrum auction, all because they didn’t think it was fair that there wasn’t “prime beachfront” spectrum set aside specifically for them that others couldn’t bid on… Time and time again, Wind runs crying to the government in order to gain favors (such as getting free spectrum, setting aside spectrum that others (the Big 3) can’t bid on, forcing other carriers to make up for their lack of infrastructure and refusal to invest on building/upgrading their infrastructure or expanding beyond the most densely populated areas of Canada, along with MUCH more) and push for regulations that would only benefit them that force other carriers to help the competition (Wind) steal customers… Honestly, it makes absolutely no sense… While I agree that we need more real competition in Canada (Lets face it, Wind is not, and will never be, real competition to the big 3), do we really want all these regulations to pass that would end up with everyone basically sharing the same towers and lowering the quality of service of the majority of subscribers? Because that’s exactly where this is going if this new regulation passes, it’s a slippery slope, one that Wind will take FULL advantage of…

Sorry to say, but Wind had every chance to become a key player in the wireless market, but they were never happy with what they were given and kept pushing for more (and when they didn’t get their way, they boycotted spectrum auctions, among other things, that would have helped them), as if they expected to be handed everything they needed to compete in Canada on a silver platter, free of charge… Sorry, but it doesn’t work that way…

It’s Me

Mostly we are talking about regulation of domestic roaming. This is common around the world, even in the US. Why? because it helps almost everyone involved, especially the consumers and the smaller carriers, but including the larger carriers as it helps the fill in gaps. We are one of the only countries that does not really regulate domestic roaming. What makes Canadians so special that we shouldn’t enforce regulations that we have and that are inline with the rest of the world? Besides being protected and coddled for many years, safe from real competition, what good and unique reason exists for uniquely excepting them from such common considerations?

This mandated domestic roaming and tower sharing has not hurt investment in other countries, so why would we expect it to happen here? The larger carriers are still paid a fair and profitable wholesale rate in other countries, why only in Canada have we lapsed on enforcing our regs so that abusive rates like $1000/GB even exist?

We do have requirement on the spectrum that all carriers lease. Among those license requirements is that the larger carriers must enter into agreements with smaller carriers for roaming and tower sharing and the rates must be reasonable and inline with industry norms. No one in the right might would think wholesale rates of $1K/GB is reasonable nor within industry norms.

If the incumbents don’t like that, they shouldn’t have bid on spectrum with those requirements. Just as Wind sat out to protect what they saw as inadequate regulations, so can the incumbents. They made their choice.

What free spectrum did Wind receive that you mention? I don’t know of any. I know the incumbents received their spectrum, early on, not for free but in a bid free process where it was simply allocated to them and they paid a yearly lease (at rates now considered obscenely low). Further, they took advantage of protectionist policies that prevented larger external companies from participating to buy up and horde other spectrum, much of which is sitting unused.

For many, many years we had regulation that was intended to foster the growth of the now incumbents. And it worked. Job done. Now we have nascent regulation taking shape that is intended to foster competition. Both are admirable goals. Both have their time and place. The first was accomplished and accomplished far beyond expectations. Why should we seek to kill the next phase before it’s even really started?

marorun1982

Got to agree with you.

If you like paying up to 4 time the price of others high end phone for the iPhone that’s has worst battery life than most phone in same category with a much smaller screen with bigger pixel and on-board memory that’s you won’t ever be able to upgrade beside cloud or upgrading to a newer iphone.

That’s with the fact you have almost no choice for the size of your device (Wich will finally change) and the fact that’s when you get apps and pay for them you won’t be able to use them if you change to android because they got a model of phone you want.

Sure if you get apps on android you won’t be able to use them on other platforms but at least you got countless oem all making different device with load of différents features and hardware.

So of you like to pay more for less you can use an iPhone.

Or if you like to pay less for less you can go to wind mobile.

It’s Me

“and the fact that’s when you get apps and pay for them you won’t be able to use them if you change to android”

If you get an app you really like on Android and then switch to an iPhone, can you use it on the iPhone? A magic app?

What a bizarre item to mention.

GJ

theres a paris in ontario? haha who knew

deltatux

Many people O.o?

GJ

Really? Guess I’m one of the few that didn’t. O well ya learn something new everyday

Plazmic Flame

I’m with you buddy. I’m city folk so this is news to me.

5Gs

Hahaha yeah bro. It’s been there for long long time. Now you know.

Thanks to Wind.

It’s Me

There’s a London too. And a Waterloo. And a Kingston

GJ

Iv been to all those places for school, but Paris… Must be new haha

It’s Me

164 years new;)

It’s ok. Until I moved to Ontario, I wouldn’t have known what a Milton, Peel region or Brampton were.

Sanjay Kumar

If wind is allowed to keep Iphones like other carriers. They will also boost their subscribers like others.
It’s a fact that consumers want to get device on cheaper price. That’s why they enroll on tabs or contracts.

blzd

I doubt many people are looking to bring an $800 phone to a cheap Wind plan. iPhone users want to hide the cost of their device behind expensive monthly plans.

Sanjay Kumar

Well right now s5 is at 729.00 and note 3 at 749.00 on wind
Plus with $65.00 monthly plan, subscriber is allowed to take 500.00 tab.