I just got this reply today while I was out howling and screaming the bunny blues to no one

Hi Mike-Thanks for writing. I’m attaching the small game regulations, which have regulations on night hunting and the use of lights (see page 15) as well as shining (see page 7). If a night vision unit emits any amount of light, regardless of color, in order to enhance night vision you may not use it to hunt or harvest an animal, including at the point of kill. This law does not only apply to visible forms of light, but includes any light used to illuminate or locate a wild animal, even if it is only an infrared light used with night vision equipment. If your scope emits no light and merely gathers ambient light, you may use it to hunt at night for those species legal to hunt at night, such as coyote and raccoon. It would be legal to use thermal imaging for hunting any species, during legal hunting hours for that species, because it does not cast any rays of visible or invisible forms of light."Point of kill" means the location at which a flashlight is used to illuminate and kill a wild animal whose position or location is already known by the hunter for the purpose of accurately identifying the animal, safely aiming the weapon and killing the animal. It does not include shining a light on fields, forests or other areas in general for the purpose of searching for or attempting to locate wild animals for which the hunter does not already know the specific location, such as a tree a hound has treed the animal in.

This is from the small game pdf page 15‘Flashlight’ means a battery-operated light designed to be carried and held by hand.

So you can't put the light on a tripod or mount to the gun???? Or you can mount a hand held lite to the gun????It sure doesn't sound safe to hole a gun with one hand and a lite with the other then turn on the lite when the Mighty Carnac tells you there is a coyote out to your left or somewhere???I sure wish I had the money for thermal imaging

No no no. You don't wait for Carnac to tell you when, you simply summon Jambi the Genie and tell him you wish for a coyote to magically appear. "Wish? Did somebody say 'Wish'?" "Mecca lecca hi, mecca hiney ho" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jambi_the_Genie

That's another thing I'm wondering. Clearly it does not state that you cannot use the light designed to be held by hand as a mounted scope light. It'd be completely absurd if a warden ticketed you for that. I'd go to court in a heartbeat, and win, without a lawyer!

yotebang wrote:That's another thing I'm wondering. Clearly it does not state that you cannot use the light designed to be held by hand as a mounted scope light. It'd be completely absurd if a warden ticketed you for that. I'd go to court in a heartbeat, and win, without a lawyer!

That is how I was leaning but here is the last line in the sm game pdf page 15‘Flashlight’ means a battery-operated light designed to be carried and held by hand.I can see that being interpreted in a way that will get you a ticket. I just responded to the dnr on how I should safely and accurately shoot my gun one handed while I hold a lite with the other hand.

You sound like you are young or new to hunting ( no insult intended). I have never been with a group of hunters and not had at least one (usually almost all of them) that has had a situation with a warden. Now I know there must be some good ones out there but ....One example I have is when my son was deer hunting and got a round stuck in the chamber. A warden happened to show up where he was parked. My son was asked what he was going to do, then told if he shoots it he will get a ticket for target shooting on public land or if he puts it into his car he will get a ticket for a loaded gun in the car. Luckily he was able to get it out so that was as far as that went.

My bil went to UWStevens Point with a friend that became a warden. Two years after graduation they met up and his buddy stated that all (bow) hunters violate. I guess if that is what they are told by their bosses/co workers you can have a real attitude. I think it is changing but ??? It seems the new management might be changing the attitude that you are not guilty (of something) just because you are in the woods with a firearm. We did run into a warden in the Boulder/Minocqua area that did a great job a few years ago, he is probably retired now.

Now in WY it is totally different. They do their job but don't treat you like you are a criminal or they were trained by the gestapo. We talked with one warden with WY G&F and he stated that WI wardens sound like they wouldn't last long there (don't know if they would be fired or ....)

Just got this reply Print a copy and carry it with you if you mount a lite to your gun.

Cibarich, Meaghan E - DNR

Hi Mike-

Flashlight is defined by the statutes to mean a battery operated light which is designed to be held and carried by hand. In other words, not a car headlight, fuel operated head lamps, electric lights, etc. There is nothing illegal about attaching a “flashlight” to a firearm or hat so that you do not have to both hold the light in one hand and try to hold and shoot the firearm with the other hand. There are clips made and sold that are designed to allow a person to attach small flashlights to a hat. If you used a product along those lines you would be able to use a flashlight to illuminate the animal at the point of kill and have both of your hands on the gun to safely fire it. A “flashlight” taped or otherwise attached to the barrel of a firearm would also be legal to use at the point of kill.

I haven’t heard anything about the laws changing to allow for coyote hunters to scan for coyote. At this point, if you were to scan a light for coyotes it would be considered shining, and therefore illegal. It is possible that this idea was presented as a recent citizen resolution at the Conservation Congress’s Spring Hearings or talked about in the state legislature during their recent hunting-related legislation changes, but whatever the origins, it did not come to fruition.

It sounds like the law allowing night hunting has not changed from how you understand it. If you plan to hunt coyote with a bow, you could not hunt coyote at night during the archery deer season (Sept. 14-Nov. 21, 2013 and Nov. 23, 2013-Jan. 5, 2014) or the bear season (Sept. 4-Oct. 8, 2013). If you are hunting coyote with a firearm, you cannot hunt coyote at night during the gun deer season (Nov. 23-Dec. 1, 2013), but you can hunt at night the rest of the year (including during the archery deer season), except the day before the gun deer season.

If you have additional questions, please don’t hesitate to contact me.

My three additional questions are how do I hold a flashlight in one hand and shoot my gun with the other in a safe manner?? While I use shooting sticks to steady the gun I still have a problem with shooting one handed, safely or accurately.

I also heard that the light law could be changing to allow coyote hunters to 'scan' with a light, do you have any insights about this?

In reading your small game link I was wondering if the law changed about using a gun to hunt at night ( after legal hunting hours) for coyotes during the deer bow season. It seemed that the exception makes it illegal now or am I just misunderstanding it? It used to be legal as long as you were not using a bow for coyotes during the deer bow season.Sorry to ask so many questions but I like to have a reference so that if I run into a warden that doesn't know the correct laws, I figure he/she would not argue about it if I have a printed email response from the WDNR. A few years ago I ran into a warden( 7 year veteran) at Pike Lake that didn't know you could use a rifle for coyotes in SE WI. Luckily we were at the ranger station and I wasn't hunting with a rifle at the time.

Thanks again,Mike

God, in his wisdom, When creating women, made a promise to men that good and obedient wives would be found in all corners of the world. And then He smiled and made the earth round.

Mike-Wow. That just goes to show it's really up to who you talk to. I have yet to get ahold of the local warden here in walworth, kenosha, racine counties. She called and left a message, which I promptly returned within 10 minutes, and every ten minutes there after, with no answer... I will print out the email and keep it in my pocket. Dave said he would help me figure out how to weld and/or ducktape my new nightlight onto the scope/cardboard toilet paper holder tube I'm using on the new scattergun! All I needed was a little plexi and it's like having one o dem high powered scopes!

I am not one to push the laws. I just hate the fact that the laws are written with so many grey areas and "up for interpretation". What a crock!!

Yotebang and to the other night hunters,I went as far as to try the online chat that the DNR has setup. I truly believe your getting a customer service representative when you chat online here. I say that because they basically will give you regulation quotes and pages. I don't believe this to be an actual Field Type Warden in the know. The sporting goods stores around here sell the varmint lights but if its only to find my way and at point of kill? Sounds like if that referendum passes about shooting and shining from stationary positions the best thing to do is get that low profile chair from Browning and let the lights shine. It does make it hard when hunters want to abide by the set laws and ask specific questions so we dont get into trouble but even the DNR has cutbacks. I feel your pain and know what your saying though. Sorry for my ranting opinion lol.