Wagner, Irvin and Wilson all look pretty good so far, heck even guys like Scruggs (2 sacks) on defense and guys like Lane and Guy are good special team guys this year while learning the system and getting some backup time to learn. Now lets hope a guy like Howard can get better a year from now, then you may say this is one of if not the best draft in a few years.

Last edited by NorCalSeahawk on Sun Nov 11, 2012 4:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.

This brings a smile to my face and cracks me up in a way. I am not alone in this, but I kept saying on draft day that I loved the draft and didn't care who went in what round because I was confident in Pete and John's philosophy of just getting their players. In all honesty, you can flip the Irvin and Wilson picks (Irvin in the 3rd Wilson in the 1st) and we still made out great.

Those pundits who preach "value" over and over and over are just morons. The point is to get the players you want. If you reach on a guy to assure you get him, and then land another guy who dropped that you also wanted then it's a win-win correct? No way would Irvin have lasted until the 2nd pick we had, and no way would Wagner have lasted until our 3rd pick. I also don't think Wilson would have lasted until our 4th (although it might have been close), but even then I believe Turbin is gone.

They played those first 4 picks perfectly and beat every other GM like a drum. Schneider should win executive of the year in a landslide (if they're still giving out that award).

I think the fact that 3 of the 4 are essentially starters (depending on how you view Irvin... but to me he's a "starter" quality player which is obvious by his numbers) and Turbin is a strong contributor (and is a starter caliber runner or will be soon enough) and the change of pace back shows just how brilliant the draft was. I've said it before, and I'll say it again. It doesn't matter what SLOT you pick a guy in as long as when the draft is done you have the players you want. You still will end up paying them the same amount. Instead of Russell getting first round money Bruce is... but on the flipside, Russell Wilson is easily the lowest cost/highest production QB in the NFL and I'm sure it's not even close. He's starting to remind me of Kurt Warner, who just came in and lit the league up early and seemed to get better and better each week. Russell doesn't put up those kind of yards yet, but he has that same type of efficiency and that same cool, calm, leadership mentality. It's awesome to watch.

For every chucklehead here who wanted Coples and were griping that we took Irvin instead even after watching Bruce's highlight reel on Youtube in the days following the draft... I suggest you rewatch today's game.

Last edited by SharkHawk on Sun Nov 11, 2012 4:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Mel Kiper really is a moron. I think somebody should start a site and just grade his grades. Point out every pick he's wrong on and how often he "hits" on players. I know a few guys here that don't spend 1/10 the time Kiper does on this stuff and hit on players a lot more often than Kiper does.

I know this.... if I ever go to Vegas, I don't want Kiper anywhere in my vicinity.

SharkHawk wrote:Mel Kiper really is a moron. I think somebody should start a site and just grade his grades. Point out every pick he's wrong on and how often he "hits" on players. I know a few guys here that don't spend 1/10 the time Kiper does on this stuff and hit on players a lot more often than Kiper does.

I know this.... if I ever go to Vegas, I don't want Kiper anywhere in my vicinity.

Wilson would have to win the SB to get OROY over Luck. Wagner is very good. I think Bruce has been ok but definitely overrated by some on this board. His sack total has been impressive but IMO he does not do enough otherwise to merit any high consideration.

seabowl wrote:Wilson would have to win the SB to get OROY over Luck. Wagner is very good. I think Bruce has been ok but definitely overrated by some on this board. His sack total has been impressive but IMO he does not do enough otherwise to merit any high consideration.

Yes, totally... because there's no way Luck could start to play poorly or get hurt. It's totally unfathomable. As far as Bruce Irvin goes... what was he brought in to do? Return kicks? Ummmm... no. Zone blitz coverage? Hmmm... no, not that either. Rush the passer and get sacks and pressures? Oh yes, exactly. What has he done? Exactly what they brought him in to do. Reminds me a lot of Aldon Smith who everybody and their dog has talked about and Demarcus Ware a few years ago, Shawn Merriman, etc. etc. He was brought in to hit the QB and get pressure and has done both very well. That's his job. He's a pass rush specialist. He has 7 sacks in 9 games. And we're overrating him? Come on.

People have ridiculous expectations of Kiper. Predicting NFL prospects is hard. That's why these teams spend millions of dollars annually on it, and still strike out on a lot more guys than they hit on.

It's like some of you think Kiper should have no opinions. How exciting would the draft be if they just showed the picks and then said "This was the pick. Someday we'll know if it was good". Yes, he's wrong sometimes. Who isn't? Even guys like Bill Walsh and Ron Wolf missed on a lot of players.

Rat wrote:People have ridiculous expectations of Kiper. Predicting NFL prospects is hard. That's why these teams spend millions of dollars annually on it, and still strike out on a lot more guys than they hit on.

It's like some of you think Kiper should have no opinions. How exciting would the draft be if they just showed the picks and then said "This was the pick. Someday we'll know if it was good". Yes, he's wrong sometimes. Who isn't? Even guys like Bill Walsh and Ron Wolf missed on a lot of players.

Still, he majorly bashed 3 of our first selections and they are having major returns right now. 1 pick wrong? Happens to everyone. 2 picks wrong? Must be a coincidence. 3 picks wrong? YOU SUCK.

Rat wrote:People have ridiculous expectations of Kiper. Predicting NFL prospects is hard. That's why these teams spend millions of dollars annually on it, and still strike out on a lot more guys than they hit on.

It's like some of you think Kiper should have no opinions. How exciting would the draft be if they just showed the picks and then said "This was the pick. Someday we'll know if it was good". Yes, he's wrong sometimes. Who isn't? Even guys like Bill Walsh and Ron Wolf missed on a lot of players.

Prognosticate? Sure. Speak in absolutes as though you're a know-it-all, and never waiver when you're flat out wrong? Totally different. I hate people too proud to admit they are wrong.

Rat wrote:People have ridiculous expectations of Kiper. Predicting NFL prospects is hard. That's why these teams spend millions of dollars annually on it, and still strike out on a lot more guys than they hit on.

It's like some of you think Kiper should have no opinions. How exciting would the draft be if they just showed the picks and then said "This was the pick. Someday we'll know if it was good". Yes, he's wrong sometimes. Who isn't? Even guys like Bill Walsh and Ron Wolf missed on a lot of players.

My problem is that when he's wrong more often than a lot of ten year olds then I don't understand why he even has a job. He's awful.

Rat wrote:People have ridiculous expectations of Kiper. Predicting NFL prospects is hard. That's why these teams spend millions of dollars annually on it, and still strike out on a lot more guys than they hit on.

It's like some of you think Kiper should have no opinions. How exciting would the draft be if they just showed the picks and then said "This was the pick. Someday we'll know if it was good". Yes, he's wrong sometimes. Who isn't? Even guys like Bill Walsh and Ron Wolf missed on a lot of players.

Still, he majorly bashed 3 of our first selections and they are having major returns right now. 1 pick wrong? Happens to everyone. 2 picks wrong? Must be a coincidence. 3 picks wrong? YOU SUCK.

Who did he bash other than Irvin? He said Russell Wilson went higher than he projected (which is pretty much what everyone said), but also said that if anyone could overcome the height issue, it was Russell. That sounds like a compliment to me.

Last edited by Rat on Sun Nov 11, 2012 5:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Rat wrote:People have ridiculous expectations of Kiper. Predicting NFL prospects is hard. That's why these teams spend millions of dollars annually on it, and still strike out on a lot more guys than they hit on.

It's like some of you think Kiper should have no opinions. How exciting would the draft be if they just showed the picks and then said "This was the pick. Someday we'll know if it was good". Yes, he's wrong sometimes. Who isn't? Even guys like Bill Walsh and Ron Wolf missed on a lot of players.

My problem is that when he's wrong more often than a lot of ten year olds then I don't understand why he even has a job. He's awful.

When he's putting his picks out there, without the gift of hindsight (this thread is a great example of hindsight analysis), then it seems like he's wrong way more often than he is.

The draft is crazy hard to predict. That's why something like only a third of FIRST round picks become above average players. That number drops precipitously after the first round.

Rat wrote:People have ridiculous expectations of Kiper. Predicting NFL prospects is hard. That's why these teams spend millions of dollars annually on it, and still strike out on a lot more guys than they hit on.

It's like some of you think Kiper should have no opinions. How exciting would the draft be if they just showed the picks and then said "This was the pick. Someday we'll know if it was good". Yes, he's wrong sometimes. Who isn't? Even guys like Bill Walsh and Ron Wolf missed on a lot of players.

My problem is that when he's wrong more often than a lot of ten year olds then I don't understand why he even has a job. He's awful.

When he's putting his picks out there, without the gift of hindsight (this thread is a great example of hindsight analysis), then it seems like he's wrong way more often than he is.

The draft is crazy hard to predict. That's why something like only a third of FIRST round picks become above average players. That number drops precipitously after the first round.

I'm sorry Mel. It's good to have you here. We'll be glad to help you with your draft evaluations for next season.

He probably makes sick money doing what he does, with significantly more job security, and significantly less hours. I'd rather have his job than be director of player personnel for the Browns or something. What's the tenure of the average GM, 4 years?

Rat wrote:Who did he bash other than Irvin? He said Russell Wilson went higher than he projected (which is pretty much what everyone said), but also said that if anyone could overcome the height issue, it was Russell. That sounds like a compliment to me.

Actually, Kiper did say Wilson would never be anything other than a backup in this league.

“There’s no reason, with Mr. Allen and the fan base here and the stadium, that this can’t be a stable, long-term winning organization.” - John Schneider