This post regards the new fluff from the Mont'ka supplement rather than the more rule oriented discussion currently taking place in the General forum. I've place my own opinion and assumptions to events and entries with 'CS' or in parenthesis.

[spoiler=]Leadership:TauCommander FarsightLongstrikeDarkstriderStarshroud- dies defending Shadowsun from the Callidus assassin.(Shadowsun- not listed in dramatis personae)(Aun'va- not listed in dramatis personae): Killed by a Culexus assassin and replaced by a hologram by the High Council and Shadowsun- Farsight knows as well.

State of Affairs:[spoiler=]The Tau, under the direction of Aun'Va, have divided their forces to defend Mu'gulath Bay and to open fronts in the Dovar system, Doth, Belfurnace, Delinquence and 9-Jodran to establish new colonies. (There doesn't seem to be a presence on Prefectia).

The attack is millions strong with Imperial Guard, Mechanicus and the White Scars and Shrike lead Ravensguard.

The planet Mu'gulath Bay is left a burning cinder with only one city left. Farsight is allowed to leave by Shadowsun and returns to elements of Leviathan attacking a colony world. Shadowsun seems to remain on the Third Sphere front while contact is maintained with the Empire but travel is limited.[/spoiler]

[spoiler=]Shadowsun: Is from T'au (confirm on page 9)[/spoiler]

Aun'Va: [spoiler=]Actually seems to take the high road (or this is just more manipulation) and says that he would be "foolish to not heed her(shadowsun) advice" when the question of him going into hiding is brought up. He chooses not to leave the warzone and actually acts like the scion of the Greater Good her should be.

Interestingly, when confronted with Farsight he declares that Farsight can only return when he accepts that Firewarriors serve and do not lead. He does not fear Farsight taking over the Empire.

Aun'Va dies pretty horribly when a Culexus butchers the bunker he's hiding in. His presence is resurrected as a holograph that continues to make speeches for the Empire's benefit. Farsight, Shadowsun and the High Council are the only ones that know.[/spoiler]

Farsight/Enclaves:[spoiler=]Don't seem to have any limitation on technology with Ghostkeels and Riptides galore.

Enclaves are using an experimental ship- the Shi'oni class cloaked ships to enter contested atmospheres.

They do use Stingwing "Hives" and Kroot 'Warpacks'. As listed in Farsight's expeditionary breakdown. He's even got some diplomats from the Water Caste but not many.

Eventually he departs and engages the Tyranids on the planet T'lasla, a fertile world.[/spoiler]

Tau Technology:

[spoiler=]Kir'norsal: A type of orbital that have dozens of powerful shield generators and ion batteries that are used to defend planets in varying sizes. The largest, when destroyed, burns like a "second sun" over Mu'gulath Bay. (CS: they sound like defensive deathstars)

Enviro Engines: The Tau are improving and repairing the atmosphere of Mu'gulath Bay and can control the weather.

Longstrikes Suit: Is able to communicate with members of his squadron and access their data/targeting computers to better triangulate their movements and attacks.[/spoiler]

A Trial by Judgement: What the High Council threatens to do to Farsight.[/spoiler]

Notable events:[spoiler=]The Vindicare's attempt on Farsight's life shows how simply awesome this sniper is and Darkstrider's hunting of him does justice to both factions. For that matter, the Eversor's follow up attack is a fine but of fluff for the Imperium.

The Callidus Assassin kills Aun'Kar without anyone knowing.

Even the Tau are affected by the Culexus aura and even AI functions are frozen.

The "world flame" weapon of the Mechanicus sets the Damocles Gulf nebula on fire. Only Lo'vasht'au is spared as everything else on the planet is burnt.[/spoiler]

My own Conclusions:

[spoiler=]-I'm one of those members that is always trying to find events and canonical entries that strengthen the Kill Team fact that Tau do not kill Tau. This book does this for me with finality. While I wish there was more interaction between the Enclaves and the Empire- there is never mention of the more violent aspects of what we consider with the word: rebellion. Rather than the ideological differences between factions. I'm sure this won't effect those players that want their Tau to be blasting at one another- but it puts the issue to bed for me.

-Yet more entries indicating that Tau blood is red is irksome... I'll stubbornly stick to the fact that it's blue.

-The result of the Damocles Gulf being set on fire is slightly confusing. I don't understand the authors point to burn the Gulf save that it stalls the Empire from expanding at the speed that the 3rd Sphere accomplished. The Earth Caste has already created shields that can pass through the inferno but the failure rate is high.[/spoiler]

Overall, the book is better written then Kauyon with a lot of interesting POV paragraphs on behalf of Tau characters. It ends abruptly, maybe providing plugs for BL authors to take advantage of later. By just walking away from the conflict these two books have illustrated is aggravating especially with some of the decisions made on behalf of GW describing the 'present' 40k timeline.

I must say that I throughly enjoyed the story in Mont'ka. Im not usually into the fluff. I'm not a Black Library fan, and seldom actually read anything other than the rules. However, I found Mont'ka engaging and reasonably well written. The final scenes, where the assassins were attacking Farsight, Shadowsun and Aun'Va were particulary good. My 2 favourite scenes were Farsight's entrance, and the "moment" exchanged between Aun'Va and Shadowsun, and Darkstrider taking down the Vindicare.

This is exactly the sort of interfering metaplot antics I feared would happen from the moment talk about big background developments in Mont'ka began (actually earlier than that, but that was when it really entered overdrive). The death of Aun'va, the Mechanicus attacking the Damocles Gulf itself, Shadowsun and Farsight reconciling their differences, these are all interesting enough ideas on their own, but they're the sort of storylines that should be the result of campaigns played amongst gaming groups, unofficial background and other hobbyist activity. By GW making it established set-in-stone canon (and not even canon of disputable truth like, say, a Black Library novel), they've effectively forced these new advancements on everyone, regardless of whether or not people actually want to include them or not (I, for one, most certainly don't - even if they could be made to fit with all the background I've come up with, I have my own ideas for certain outcomes of those events that I enjoy much more).

GW treating the 40k universe as a story in its own right, rather than as a setting for stories to happen in, ultimately makes the 40k universe a much smaller place, despite it's scale. The way I see it, Aun'va, Shadowsun, Farsight and the war around the Damocles gulf aren't supposed to be fully complete storylines. All they should be is starting points, creative launchpads for your own background material. Instead, by making them prime movers of the background, there's less room for hobbyists to tell their own stories. If I have an idea for an amazing story with brilliant twists and phenomenal characterisation about trying to eliminate Aun'va, or Farsight and Shadowsun's forces encountering each other, or a Tau fleet intercepting a Mechanicus doomsday weapon intended to block out the Damocles Gulf, well... now I can't, not without it being incompatible with canon, which in turn raises difficulties when it comes to sharing those stories with others (and a story has little point if no-one's ever going to hear/read it). Even writing background about the adventures of your own army becomes much harder, because every single relevant, meaningful action in the 40k universe becomes attributed to just the comparatively small handful of named GW characters.

Even then however, things like Warzone Damocles: Mont'ka could still be released without causing this problem. All it would take is a couple of sentences or a small paragraph at the start of the book clearly stating that the events depicted in its background are a 'what if?' scenario, and just one potential outcome of many, all of which are equally possible based on any number of different factors, and is meant to serve as an example of the sort of narratives you can come up with yourself, which would let hobbyists decide for themselves if they want to incorporate its background material or not. That way hobbyists who want to include the background advancements written in it can do so if they wish (and a lot of them probably will if it's written well enough), while those who disagree with or dislike the new background are free to ignore it, and everyone is satisfied.

As it stands though, this new publication has just alienated me from 40k canon. I had anticipated such a thing happening and had re-branded all my 40k background as Battlefleet Gothic background to work around it (because new background like Warzone Damocles: Mont'ka technically isn't part of official Battlefleet Gothic background), but it still has the potential to leave other hobbyists similarly out in the cold (and makes other things difficult for me in the future).

Now that the Warzone books have concluded, I think it's safe to assume we've reached a point where Tau fluff will stop advancing, at least for the next few years. I know Kakapo42 is understandably upset by these changes- but maybe there is a silver lining:

-Aun'Va is dead: Only few Ethereals, Farsight and Shadowsun know about this. What are the long term affects of such a deception? In the immediate, with the 3rd sphere gains coreward effectively halted, this actually grants the Empire some reprieve. The Septs were in a state of full production, I don't think you can just flip a switch and stop that, which means the Septs will need to open a new front somewhere.

That's a new narrative branch that I can get on board with- without Aun'Va, Shadowsun ect.

-Farsight/Shadowsun: Not much changed here... He's back to being a traitor and she'll follow orders to bring him in.

-The Gulf is on Fire: The Gulf was set on fire, slowing Tau expansion in that quadrant for the time being. Shielded ships can still go through but the failure rate is 'high'. More importantly, millions of Tau are on the other side of the Gulf including the leader of the Fire Caste; Shadowsun. In a weird way, those worlds around Mu'gulath Bay have become Enclaves in their own right.

Another narrative branch, this one for everyone who's down with the Shadowsun theme.

I kind of have to both agree and disagree with Kakapo about the advancements in the storyline. On the one hand, I myself had my own ideas for what the future of the Tau would be like, and that future involved Aun'va in a small, but important way. With this, my stories for my own personal vision of The End Times will have to be modified, and that does upset me.

At the same time, I do believe that nothing can last forever if it stays the same. People, franchises, worlds, they all are born, grow, change, get old, and eventually die. Look at Star Wars; they're getting new movies, and new stories, and new everything. Heck, they just tossed out, what, 30 years of expanded universe in novels, video games, comic books and more just to give the series a fresh start for a new generation (and that really, really irked me, even If I very much disliked some of the things they did in the E.U.)

But whether I like it or not, that's what any setting has to do to stay relevant. If I'm honest with myself, I have been Dying for some real stories to read about the Tau. There's only so many times I can retread the codex before I have it memorized; the Farsight Enclaves is one of my very favorite supplements and it's still been months since I even skimmed through its fluff entries. I know it all already; and once you hit that point it's only a matter of time before you get bored and move on looking for something new. I heard about the new Farsight book a year ago and waited, and waited, and forgot about, and then oh wow, surprise! It's here! And I was so happy to finally have something new to inspire me, even if it was just an expanded version of something that was gone over briefly in another book. I think most people feel the same way. We need a steady flow of new material to keep us interested, or else we'll drift away and go find other things to spend our money on. And if enough of us do that, will Warhammer have much of a future?

My opinion is just that; my opinion, and it comes from a very different place than most of you, I think. Because you see, I have never played an actual game of Warhammer, and never will. I'm poor. That's all there is to it. When I look on the GW website and see how much each model costs (and terrain, and Paint?! I have to paint these myself?) I know that I'm never gonna get them, ever, and even if I do I'll probably never use them as anything but paperweights because I don't know anyone in my small, suburban town with a Warhammer army of their own. To me, this universe only lives in the books I read and the video games I play. So if "universe-shrinking" changes to the status quo are the only way to keep the Universe going, then I guess I'm signing up.

Where did you see that the Farsight Enclaves get Ghostkeels? From everything that I read all I could find is that he utilizes lots of Crisis Suits and Riptides, it mentions nothing about Ghostskeels from what I remember (left my book at home, currently at work).

Shas'vre Ka'ra wrote:My opinion is just that; my opinion, and it comes from a very different place than most of you, I think. Because you see, I have never played an actual game of Warhammer, and never will. I'm poor. That's all there is to it. When I look on the GW website and see how much each model costs (and terrain, and Paint?! I have to paint these myself?) I know that I'm never gonna get them, ever, and even if I do I'll probably never use them as anything but paperweights because I don't know anyone in my small, suburban town with a Warhammer army of their own. To me, this universe only lives in the books I read and the video games I play. So if "universe-shrinking" changes to the status quo are the only way to keep the Universe going, then I guess I'm signing up.

I can see how that would shape your opinion. The trouble is that at the end of the day the 40k universe is a tabletop setting, and tabletop settings (either wargame or RPG) are in many ways very different from a book, film or TV series. While series like those are primarily meant to be passively consumed (i.e. you watch the film or TV show, or read the books, follow the whole story to the end and that's pretty much all there is to it), tabletop settings encourage you to actively engage with them and add to them yourself. And big top-down advancements like what's happened here interfere with that.

It's not background advancements I'm against per se, but rather top-down 'official' background advancements to the core setting. I'm perfectly ok with, and indeed encourage, unofficial, hobbyist-driven background advancements which are released into the ether and can then be adopted or discarded by other hobbyists as they wish - the Into Silence series being done by me, Calmsword and a few other members on here is an excellent example of this. Likewise I'm fully happy to come up with and use background advancements of my own invention, and readily encourage others to do the same. In my ideal 40k world, all the official background would do is provide a starting point and set up some context for stories, and then almost everything that happens after that would be decided by hobbyists for themselves, with subsequent official background material only covering minor events that don't threaten the status quo. Then when a given hobbyist has developed the background for themselves enough that they are satisfied or exhausted, they move on and the whole cycle begins again with a new hobbyist.

Basically, to use an RPG term, I don't like being railroaded, and I feel like that's what the new background in Mont'ka is doing.

Actually, when majority of tau ground forces, fleet and supreme commander of the Fire Caste are trapped beyond burning Damocles Gluff (shielding technology isn't ready yet) it seems pretty clear for me that the Imperium should just warp-in and massacre the relatively defenseless tau core septs. It's all Agrellan was about - to block tau forces and to kill tau high command if possible. It wasn't even Crusade, just task force, with some sort of conspiracy on the part of mechanicus and Adeptus Terra.

About the fluff as whole: I expect more confrontation between Aun'Va and Farsight, but idea of Shadowsun stepping between and calming down both was interesting. She was portrayed well - finally.

About "tau don't kill tau". When Darkstrider find pathfinders killed by vindicator he thinks first that it was done by tau of the enclaves.

And about fluff and roleplaying... I always thought, that players are supposed to create their own heroes and events and use main characters like Aun'Va in the background only. As for me it is much more interesting at the first place and I'm well protected from the changes in the fluff this way. Codex and campaign fluff is just a skeleton for your own stories - you can't use main characters and events, but you can fill everything else with your imagination. So it isn't problem for me. I can understand your disappointment but can't agree with it.

"Early tests were positive, as some ships survived the passage across the Damocles Gulf, but the failure rate was high." ~110pg.

About "tau don't kill tau". When Darkstrider find pathfinders killed by vindicator he thinks first that it was done by tau of the enclaves.

It's posed as suspicious since the bodies lead toward the Enclaves- I had to reread the section but you're right there is an allusion- still, not a single shot is fired between both sides. For me, that's enough to stop wondering. For better or worse- I had though there would have definitely been SOMETHING between Shadowsun and Farsight being in the same room with Aun'va. But... just terse words and a change in tactics.

It was in the Farsight Army Organization Chart. Where it says that Farsight divided his army into offensive and defensive cadres, near discription of extraction teams. Several ghostkheel wings are listed here. And I agree, it is hard to believe in this, because Ghostkeels were developed in secret from even another tau. There should be no information leaks. But there is a possibility. It seems that Farsight has a support from someone from the Ethereal Caste. Because when Shadowsun came to told Farsight about his Trial By Judgement, he already received this information. And I don't think that anybody except Etherial Council and Shadowsun herself knew that. It also explains Ghostkheels in the enclave. Hmmm... Who could be this mysterious Etherial supporter? Aun'Shi, Aun'Shi or may be Aun'Shi? But I can be mistaken.

"Early tests were positive, as some ships survived the passage across the Damocles Gulf, but the failure rate was high." ~110pg.

Yup, I know this, but "the failure rate was high" - it isn't enough to bring all fleet to the core septs if Imperium strikes in his full might. Retribution Task Force at Agrellan was nothing like giant Imperial Armies mentioned in the end of Kauyon. It wasn't even Crusade. All titan legions and other stuff was sent elsewhere. All guardsmen was simply sacrificed for Adeptus Mechanicus and Assassins sake. AM get new tau toys and burn Agrellan and all Gulf with easy. Assassins tried to eliminate tau command. Guard was needed only to cover this. All book was about "Welcome to grim dark future, Tau Empire". Now all Empire is hardly overworked (even humans on Agrellan were sent into concentra... khm, labor camps), critically vulnerable to the Imperium and other treats and lies and propaganda are equal to the Imperium level. Tau Empire is pretty much like Imperium now - golden age is over.

It's posed as suspicious since the bodies lead toward the Enclaves- I had to reread the section but you're right there is an allusion- still, not a single shot is fired between both sides. For me, that's enough to stop wondering.

Yes, it is good that there is no open conflict between Empire and Enclave. "I don't want to returned and take your Empire" - "warrior should fight but not rule" - pretty funny, because in Indian caste system warrior caste, Kshatriya, actually rules people. Priest caste is higher and guides people but it is only about religion.

For better or worse- I had though there would have definitely been SOMETHING between Shadowsun and Farsight being in the same room with Aun'va. But... just terse words and a change in tactics.

But I like that it was shown this way. Literately nothing happened, but there is something behind the words. Farsight thought about Shadowsun even when fight the Tyranids after all.

Last edited by Val'Sitsor on Dec 01 2015 12:44, edited 3 times in total.

Farsight Enclaves: A fully fledged colonial network with its own functioning Caste system just beyond the Gulf on the 'north' side. They're currently more cut off from the Empire then ever before and are fighting tendrils of the Y'he and a growing Ork threat (or is that now concluded?) With new toys and technology, they don't seem to have deviated that much... this is probably just poor storytelling on GW's part but I personally plan on filling in some of the gaps- unless the rumors are true and we'll be getting a new book soon.

The Third Sphere: Those worlds taken are more than enough to constitute a high percentage of the Empire as a whole (back in the EoT days the Empire expanded by 33% give or take a point). If Shadowsun has taken high industrial planets and large populations of Tau (unless the civilians were mostly massacred as Tau died in the millions on Mu'gulath Bay) then they should be several systems capable of providing support for themselves rather than assistance from the Empire.

The High Council (probably not the 'Council of the Highest on T'au) is leading on Mu'gulath Bay with Shadowsun (probably the most powerful non-Ethereal since Puretide as she's 'in' on the Aun'va conspiracy). They're the ones going 'grimdark' as I've theorized in my own stories, become a little too 'imperial' in their responses to aggression. They are definitely on the defensive though, with the White Scars withdrawing and the Imperial fleet pulling back. It's more like the political environment after the Damocles Gulf if anything- just with Tau with a permanent series of worlds 'deeper' in Imperial Space.

The Septs: (first and second sphere) I actually think these guys are still holding true to the OG Tau. In my fluff they're being lead by Aun'O Kath'lan (the prime ethereal mentioned in Firewarrior) but Aun'Shi is probably still here as he's never been mentioned in the 3rd Sphere. Of course he might also be heading toward the Enclaves (eternally) or he might already be there.

Kakapo42 wrote:GW treating the 40k universe as a story in its own right, rather than as a setting for stories to happen in, ultimately makes the 40k universe a much smaller place, despite it's scale. The way I see it, Aun'va, Shadowsun, Farsight and the war around the Damocles gulf aren't supposed to be fully complete storylines. All they should be is starting points, creative launchpads for your own background material. Instead, by making them prime movers of the background, there's less room for hobbyists to tell their own stories.

Too true, much too true! With a galaxy trillions of miles wide, you'd think there'd be room for a thousands of story lines, but it is GW afterall! Everything is reduced to a few 'heroic' individuals, following the same worn out 'grim-dark' plot lines. Really, how did GW manage to shrink the Milky Way down to the size of a postage stamp?

Here let me introduce you to the ultimate weapon of any fandom: KRYPTO-REVISIONISM!

Such big time money making franchises as STAR TREK and Marvel Comics, have fallen to the overwhelming power of this weapon! Entire movies, television shows, books, and graphic novels and been eliminated from the face of the universe by the power of KRYPTO-REVISIONISM! As a fan YOU have ultimate power!

This is how it works, just say these magic words: "IT NEVER HAPPENED!" or "IT NEVER HAPPENED THAT WAY!"

To quote Yoda: "You have ultimate power!" (Well I think it was Yoda anyways?)

Calmsword wrote:-Farsight/Shadowsun: Not much changed here... He's back to being a traitor and she'll follow orders to bring him in.

If tau don't kill tau, then why is Shadowsun ready to go all 'Eliot Ness' on his backside then? Shadowsun and her 'Untouchables' ready to bring him in, 'dead or alive'; sounds like somebody with blue blood, is ready to do in somebody else in with blue blood. Don't you think?

Calmsword wrote:I would't go so far as to say that the golden age is over.

There are essentially three factions of the Tau now:

Farsight Enclaves: A fully fledged colonial network with its own functioning Caste system just beyond the Gulf on the 'north' side. They're currently more cut off from the Empire then ever before and are fighting tendrils of the Y'he and a growing Ork threat (or is that now concluded?) With new toys and technology, they don't seem to have deviated that much... this is probably just poor storytelling on GW's part but I personally plan on filling in some of the gaps- unless the rumors are true and we'll be getting a new book soon.

The Third Sphere: Those worlds taken are more than enough to constitute a high percentage of the Empire as a whole (back in the EoT days the Empire expanded by 33% give or take a point). If Shadowsun has taken high industrial planets and large populations of Tau (unless the civilians were mostly massacred as Tau died in the millions on Mu'gulath Bay) then they should be several systems capable of providing support for themselves rather than assistance from the Empire.

The High Council (probably not the 'Council of the Highest on T'au) is leading on Mu'gulath Bay with Shadowsun (probably the most powerful non-Ethereal since Puretide as she's 'in' on the Aun'va conspiracy). They're the ones going 'grimdark' as I've theorized in my own stories, become a little too 'imperial' in their responses to aggression. They are definitely on the defensive though, with the White Scars withdrawing and the Imperial fleet pulling back. It's more like the political environment after the Damocles Gulf if anything- just with Tau with a permanent series of worlds 'deeper' in Imperial Space.

The Septs: (first and second sphere) I actually think these guys are still holding true to the OG Tau. In my fluff they're being lead by Aun'O Kath'lan (the prime ethereal mentioned in Firewarrior) but Aun'Shi is probably still here as he's never been mentioned in the 3rd Sphere. Of course he might also be heading toward the Enclaves (eternally) or he might already be there.

If we go by the worlds mentioned in Mont'ka, Kauyon and fluff in the aforementioned 6 edition, apart from Mu'gulath Bay had taken 50 worlds in that area, these should be added and others mentioned Prefectia taken worlds simultaneously with this, also I would have happened if Dovar finally was taken.

The other Septs have also expanded their borders and are probably taken more territories now are in the process of consolidation.

There are other worlds mentioned in the fluff of stories and novels, another interesting question is whether K'si'myen stay on the same side, Mugulath Bay or stay on the other side, the same Fi'rios

I don't agree with the hate of the new fluff. If you want the 40k universe to go one way more in line than what you and your group want just do that and ignore the fluff. My tau were all AIs based off formerly living tau at least a year before there was any evidence the tau could do that and if they had instead said the tau could not do that I'd have ignored it and kept going with my army.

You should be busy making your own version not being sad about GWs version. This is one of the reasons they have the missions in Kauyon and Mont'ka. You can play the campaign yourself and see how it goes or just decide among your group. 40k is about Your Dudes and you shouldn't feel threatened by GW fluff. Take inspiration or ignore it.

EmbraveYourInnerGeek wrote:Mate - we're all playing toy soldiers. We are all nine year olds!

Yeah, we're all just playing toy soldiers, but I got bored of bashing them together and shouting "pew, pew!" thirty years ago.

Playing games with toy soldiers is a hobby that can be enjoyed by children and adults, but it doesn't have to be childish. It can have depth, subtlety, catharsis and poignancy (without ever needing to be pretentious), and IMO is all the better for it when that's the case. The more recent fluff doesn't have any of that IMO.