Lisa Mckenzie

January 15th, 2018

‘We don’t exist to them, do we?’: why working-class people voted for Brexit

Working-class people were more likely to vote for Brexit. Lisa Mckenzie (Middlesex University) takes issue with the notion that these people were ‘turkeys voting for Christmas’. They saw Brexit, with all the uncertainties it would bring, as an alternative to the status quo. De-industrialisation and austerity has taken a heavy toll on working-class communities – one which the middle-class often fails to grasp.

It’s 22 June 2016. I’m sat in a café in the East End of London with two local women, ‘Sally’ – who is 23, has two small children, and has been on the council house waiting list for four years, along with over 19,000 other people – and Anne, who is in her sixties and calls herself a ‘proper Eastender’. Her children and grandchildren had recently moved out of the area and into Essex because of the lack of an affordable home. It’s the day before the EU referendum, and we are talking about all the politics of the day, including footballer David Beckham’s recent intervention in the debate: he has recently declared his support for the Remain campaign. The women are not happy. The conversation goes:

‘What has that **** Beckham got to say about this?’

‘He hasn’t ever got to be worried about where he is going to live, unless it’s which house.’

‘Well him and Posh can go and live where they want when they want, it’s not the same for us, I’ve been homeless now for two years.’

‘We don’t exist to them, do we?’

‘Well all of us ******* who don’t exist are voting out tomorrow’.

Before the referendum, I had been working with a group of local working-class men and women in London’s East End as part of ‘The Great British Class Survey’ at the LSE. I have collected hundreds of stories about working-class life in the last four years in the East End, and thousands over the last 12 years. These small stories can often seem unrelated to the big political debates of the day, if you don’t understand the context to them. As a working-class woman, I value the art of storytelling: I know that a story is never just a story. It is used by working-class people to explain who they are, where they come from, and where they belong. These small stories are too often missed in wider political analysis in favour of macro trends, which has often meant that the poorest people in the UK go unrepresented.

Fortunately – as an ethnographer, a working-class academic, the daughter of a Nottinghamshire striking miner, and hosiery factory worker (and I have lived in council housing for most of my life) – I rarely focus on the macro. My life and my work is rooted within working-class communities; my focus and my politics are about exposing those inequalities that are invisible to many, but sit in plain sight.

Having collected these narratives since 2005, I knew something different was happening around the referendum. The debates in pubs, cafes, nail bars, and the hairdressers in working-class communities seemed infectious. People were interested, and argued about the finer points of the EU, but also made broader points about where power rested in the UK, making links between the two. However, for most working class people like ‘Sally’ and the other women, the debates were centred upon the constant struggle of their own lives, and they connected those struggles to their mothers’ and grandmothers’ hardships, but also to their children’s future. They saw little hope that life would become fairer for them. The referendum was a turning point for the women in east London. They had not voted in the 2015 General Election: they had little interest or faith in a political system seated only three miles away when their daily and immediate situation needed constant attention. When ‘Sally’ told me she was going to use her vote for the first time to leave, I asked her if she thought things would change for the better if we were to Brexit. She said she didn’t know, and didn’t care. She just couldn’t stand things being the same.

Since the vote, interest in what has been happening to the ‘left behind’ has sharpened, along with stigmatising and cruel rhetoric about those from working-class communities who voted to leave or didn’t vote at all. They have been derided as ‘turkeys voting for Christmas’ – as ‘stupid’, ‘spiteful’ and racist. My most recent research with the International Inequalities Institute at the LSE has taken me to the Nottinghamshire and Derbyshire mining towns where I was born and raised. These communities overwhelmingly voted to leave the EU, and their reasons were varied and broad. This part of the UK was decimated during the 1980s and 1990s. They are proud places and people who kept the lights on with their labour down the ‘pits’, and kept the good people of the middle-class and middle England in their nice Marks and Spencer undies. These communities were heavily industrialised, and filled with skilled manual labour jobs for both men and women. They were wiped clean by de-industrialisation, and left void of work and investment for decades. In the last ten years, particularly since the 2008 banking crash, new jobs have emerged in warehouse and distribution work, payday loan companies, and slum landlording. De-industrialised areas are fertile ground for exploitative industries. Land, people and labour are cheap. Warehouses can be constructed in days and disassembled and taken somewhere else if the land, the people or the labour ask for more.

Migrant workers from eastern Europe have been recruited into the area to work and live in these exploitative industries. Women like ‘Sally’ from east London have been socially cleansed out of the expensive land of the global city and are being rehoused in the privately owned and rented ‘pit houses’ owned by slum landlords in the deindustrialised North and Midlands.

Despite the obvious geographical differences between both groups – one lives in a global city that has great wealth and is an economic powerhouse on the world stage, while the other group live in small isolated communities – there is a commonality in experience. They knew they were at the bottom, they knew they had been at the bottom for generations, and rather than being ‘left behind’ – a term that suggests they could not keep up – they knew they had been ‘left out’ of the purposeful act of wealth being redistributed upwards.

Working-class Leavers were derided as turkeys voting for Christmas, but it is the middle-class Remainers who have been running around like headless chickens since the vote. Like Henny Penny, they think the sky is falling in, but whether the sky falls in or not, Brexit has made a difference to working-class people dubbed ‘the left behind’. They have become visible for the first time in generations, and to some extent feared. In January 2018 few could deny that the government’s Brexit plans are chaotic. But for working-class people all over the UK, the chaos of the NHS, Universal Credit, social cleansing and housing is their priority. And in truth, the UK’s middle class has been left relatively unscathed by eight years of austerity. Those who don’t fear the shame of the foodbank, or the looming prospect of a job in the warehouse/workhouse for their children – and instead think the crisis is about the colour of passports – should think themselves lucky.

Lisa Mckenzie

150 Comments

Thank you for this, and more generally for the ‘fieldwork’ you undertake.

“They have become visible for the first time in generations…” Yes, but only fleetingly so, and not at all more relevant.
In the UK’s adversarial system of Party Politics there are very few who are not exploited;Politically and economically.
All are ‘damned if they do and damned if they do not’. But, what did any of us ‘do’ in June 2016?
If we ‘voted’, then we were all yet again exploited:Exploited and made to think we did it to ourselves. [again]

What ‘if’ we did not vote, but simply ‘opined’?
Oh – scary; that could reveal the exploitation and the exploiters. And make the way to relevance visible.

I disagree the opinion that is doesn’t really matter who we vote into power. Tory policy actually HURTS and dare I say it, kills people. Labour policy may hurt the rich in the pocket but their is a huge difference! People should ALWAYS come before somebody’s personal wealth. Full stop.

Even when people’s experiences are real their perceptions may be false. The value of ordinary wages has been eroded for ordinary working class people like me for decades, that is theorised to “incentivise” me to increase my “productivity”. Social provision has been cut and any effort by government to identify and provide for existing or emerging social needs has been reversed into a philosophy that gaps in social provision will “incentivise” self-reliance and that unemployment and other disadvantage is mainly “voluntary”. This makes ordinary people worse off, for some people causing extreme suffering, and more importantly undermines our dignity and self-esteem because we are prevented from fulfilling our roles properly and are humiliated in our families and communities. These are the political theories of Thatcher / Reaganism. Regardless of people’s perceptions, these developments are not predominantly the result of the EU or immigration. This is a perception created by the people who are the beneficiaries of Thatcher / Reaganism directing some of their new found wealth into dominating media commentary, the government, finance and most other social institutions as well as into tax evasion and avoidance. It is not constructive to insult people but these perceptions are not accurate and they may include racist attitudes if they unfairly attribute traits, blame or criticism to people on the basis of their nationality.

Stop voting for cruel governments that want to take us down the American way of doing things. Brexit was about stopping the chances of a United states of EU but the Tory party see it as cutting the chains so that they can follow America with making the poor poorer, privatising what is left of the social state, including the NHS and probably making an industry out of prisons just like in the US and Israel. This cruel and unnecessary way of doing things needs to stop.
Why are people so taken in by the cash argument? News flash… We make the cash ourselves. It isn’t real! Surly people are not thick enough to think that this is the way it has to be?

The British middle class have not been hit with austerity to anywhere near the same extent as the working class; when labour, supposedly the voice of the working class, started courting the middle class and were subsequently taken over by them, class politics gave way to identity politics and the quagmire this has led to across the UK.

I agree with Andrew. Our ills are our fault, nothing really to do with the EU. The attitude that changing things for the worse for those at the bottom is okay as long as “they” don’t get want is a bit scary to me, especially as there are just as many “they”s who want Brexit as a cash cow as remain “they”s.

Another disturbing feature for me is the class hatred, just a strong as it is on the other side. Doesn’t bode well for our future.

not entirely. before i emigrated to Australia ( i didnt think brexit would happen) 4 years ago, i lived in henly on thames. nice place. im not rich either. barstaff were mostly eastern european.the guy who mowed the grass roadside was portuguese ( i sold my car to him when i left) a famous musician of the 60’s (deceased now) of the stones era, his gardener and caretaker were portuguese and his wife too. unfortunatly, i had to make a unemployment claim at the jobcenter through the GFC, the security guards were italian. when i went to the pub occasionally, i met french carpenters, young lads 4 of them- had a interesting chat with them on why they came to the UK. another time when i had to visit the council offices, there were young girls of say 18-24 from eastern europe, both with double/ triple baby carriages with their brand new never used passports in their hands, i sat next to them, and listen to what they said to the receptionist ( why stay in my country when if i come to UK i can have council house?) was the general message. when on occasions unfortunatly i took the train, mostly polish ticket staff at the tills, at petrol stations also. when i parked up in a very small village in lane end, i questioned the local builder on work, and how things were going , his response was direct- competition from eastern europe undercutting me has ruined my buisiness.
– all these are example of jobs that can be filled by locals, of companys negativly affected, of housing that could and should be allocated to locals. and you wonder why when a british lad or girl cannot get a job, or council accomodation they took the one thing that couldnt be taken away from them (yet- but under the EU surely) a vote to show discontent and change the way things are?
the answers why are there- you dont have to look far.
you dont have to go into long waffled out spiel with flow charts, and a thesis on it.

Immigration was NOT forced upon the UK by the EU but seen as necessary.
Mervyn King pressed the case to open the labour market without transition on the grounds that it would help lower wage growth and inflation, address supply bottlenecks in a fast-growing pre-financial crisis economy, and help keep interest rates low,

You are an immigrant yourself, toecutter. Have you somehow missed this fact? Living the good life thanks to hardworking Australians. Taking valuable Australian jobs, valuable Australian resources. People like you are a burden on the Australian healthcare system and infrastructure. And you’ve put nothing into it via taxes.

Now, I don’t believe any of that xenophobic nonsense for a second. But you are a hypocrite of the highest order. There are more English people in Australia than Aboriginal Australians. Don’t believe you can peddle your petit bourgeois whining about foreigners without being called out on it. You’re currently reaping the fraying rewards of the Australian labour movement — a movement international in its aims and character. So don’t you dare pretend there is ANY difference between an Italian gardener, a Polish gardener or an English one. They’re all being equally exploited. Nationality is a fiction convenient only to the people who want to exploit them.

I’m rather right wing. Or at least, my conservative politics from the 60s haven’t changed.

Certainly my hackles rise when I hear Marxist claptrap about “workers of the world unite, you have nothing to lose but your chains”.

But you know what? I also have a respect for facts. Justme11 is right. Even some of what he calls Xenophobic Nonsense is right, toecutter is no different from any of the Poles, or French, or Italians in the UK. No different from the Sudanese, Chinese, or Chileans here in Australia. No different from me, for I’m an immigrant too.

I’m still right wing, compared to the 60s. But now that puts me far to the left, or at least, in a place not racist, in a place where there is some social justice, and even more than that, social compassion. Where those like myself lucky enough to be given opportunity, and also lucky enough to be able to take advantage of that, have an obligation to help those in need. Whether they ‘deserve,’ it in some sense or not. Judging that is beyond my pay grade. Help first. And keep those who would exploit all of us given the chance firmly in their place.

Aged 75 and a worker most of those years,life has provided an education out of school for me.
Migration of people can sometimes be a good thing,but,excessive migration can destroy an area such has happened to the UK. Without giving much thought to the effect that culture,religion etc can have,the UK government allowed this to happen. The effect is felt more in poorer areas of a city or country as immigrants tend to require more assistance to live and hence at a cost. Not initially but as their families grow larger.
We the UK have become too tolerant, mainly due to the peace which has come to the UK since WW2. We have let our guard slip and our children in Government know not how to defend. Without a memory of hardship etc.it they have no references to compare to when meeting a problem. Ability to foresee an outcome,comes with experience.Thus the marked difference in how the Referendum was approached, by young and old.
Whether the result was right or wrong is for the future to decide,but a knowledge of the EU intentions for the future will give an indication.

I am in favour of Brexit.
In 2010 I was ill in Hospital & had to vacate my bed as they flew someone in from another Country to take my place. Just before this Christmas I was ill again, I phoned the emergency Doctor to be told it would be 12 hours
Before I could be seen. Quite frankly I am sick of feeling like a second rate Citizen in my own Country.
We have survived being Conquered twice.two World wars. the Battle of Britain etc. We can survive Brexit.

I’m really sorry but your problems were nothing to do with the EU and everything to do with home grown government. The NHS has been systematically stripped of funding over many years by successive governments. To think that leaving the EU and running into the arms of the conservatives is going to remedy that is little more than self delusion at best. What you have done is to strip yourself and many others of fundamental civil rights and expose yourself to even worse to come. There is NO WAY that the Tory party is going to spend more on public services or the NHS post EU. This party thinks nothing of bringing in policies that decimate people and communities less well off. Universal credit, denial of benefits to people too ill to work, rise of food banks, children in growing poverty, homelessness on the rise, thousands dead or dying through forced poverty, these things have nothing to do with the EU, but many areas of EU law, and human rights law, which May has been trying to ditch for years, are the only things that victims of the Tories have to defend themselves with. Congratulations on your vote. At the end of March, the lights go down on the UK and the burden of the consequences lies with you. Enjoy it.

Two things:
1) Your whole argument is built on the premise that the Tories will be in government for all eternity. You need to have more faith in people and your alleged politics.

2) The NHS and our public services have been stripped, defunded and privatised while we’ve been in the EU – how do you propose that is going to change while we remain in the EU? Especially when the (unreformable) EU’s rules on competition and procurement are used to carry this out.

The working class want out of the EU because we understand that 30,000 corporate lobbyists embedded in Brussels have more influence over forming policy than you or I ever will. And their influence doesn’t benefit those who rely on public services. Something the middle classes have difficulty grasping.

We emigrated to Australia in 1968. Before then, we lived in Twyford, not a million miles from Henley on Thames.

We emigrated because there were no jobs. The economy was struggling. I still have a few sheets with ration coupon stamps on them. Rationing had ended just a few years before I was born.

It was a very different time from the UK of today. Ethnically homogeneous, foreign things like Pizzas unknown. I’d never seen a cantaloupe, or an avocado.

It sucked.

Well, a hard Brexit will return England – separate from Scotland – to those good old days, except that the poor are going to starve this time. The well to do will suffer, but you haven’t seen real austerity yet, the kind with food riots.

As someone who’s been thoroughly Australianised, so with a million or so in superannuation and another million in a pokey little house, I stand to gain a ton of money when the UK economy crashes, then we buy distressed assets at firesale prices. The fundamentals are good, you see.

But I’d gladly give away all the filthy lucre my vulture hedge funds are going to get if this deliberately engineered idiocy didn’t happen. You’re being conned. Again.

You assume that the political parties represented a difference in terms of policy. For the first 30 odd years of my life this was proven to not be the case every single election.

I wasn’t aware you were given a crystal ball. Perhaps you could use your powers of clairvoyance to tell me next week’s lottery numbers?

Fact is no one knows what leaving the EU will bring. But I know I don’t like the EU. I don’t like their attitude to democracy. I don’t like the way they bully people who don’t toe the line. I don’t like the cronyism and massive waste of resources they engage in as a matter of course. I don’t like them lying about their aims. I don’t like the EUs structure nor do I like the people at the head of it. I don’t like their backroom deals. There’s a lot to dislike about the EU. Yes I may be worse off financially for voting leave… And I could’ve been worse off financially for a million other reasons which are all as beyond my control as how punitive the EU wishes to be in regards to our nation deciding to leave. I may be worse off financially. But sometimes finances aren’t the most important thing. And when your allready mired in muck and filth sometimes it’s best to buck the status quo and just roll the dice.

I do find it funny that the main defense held up to champion the EU is “if we leave the EU will make sure we are worse off financially!” As if that would endear the democratically deficit bankers playground to anyone.

*These people* (of which I am one) tried voting in elections and it got us nowhere, why do you think Labour lost so many votes from 2011 onwards and lost the last 3 elections? Because they did nothing for us is why.

*These people* have been getting bent over for generations. Nobody asks our opinion except for once every 5 years and then it’s ignored once the ballots are counted.

If governments listened to us and acted to improve things then Brexit wouldn’t have happened.

If communities hadn’t been changed beyond recognition by immigration,

if scarce public resources hadn’t gone to immigrants, if precious housing and school places hadn’t gone to immigrants and their children,

if we first provided for our own rather than millions of random strangers then Brexit might not have happened.

If people I’d worked with who once earned £20 an hour weren’t sacked and replaced immediately by Romanians getting paid €10 an hour then Brexit might not have happened.

You can poke your general elections up your arse. You wouldn’t dare make such an asinine suggestion if you had a clue what you were talking about.

Colin, if Ian can so easily be proved incorrect then why don’t you do so? Your words are incredibly cheap.

The problem with right wingers like Colin is that they don’t give a damn about the working class. They profess to care deeply about everyone else… except for the working class. Sitting there in your leafy suburb, preaching to the poor that they should be more enlightened.

Colin.
It was a chance to try to get out of the mire that the EU seems to putting the people (lower/middle and upper so to speak) further into. Provided of course Mrs May and our? MP,s have the peoples majority wishes at heart LOL

immigrants are just working class people from other countries, they’ve also been fucked over by governments similar or worse to our own, in my opinion brexit is there to distract us from the real reason for our situation: the people in power right now. It’s annoying because the system is rigged so that there is no party which represents ordinary people.. sadly I don’t if there is any way of getting the message to a government who doesn’t listen, all i know is brexit definitely isn’t helping the ongoing recession

No sir. it can’t get any worse for us.
it will get worse for people like you, that have been thriving off the gullibility and credibility of the people for generations.
So you can make assumptions about the people for your own aggrandizement, but I don’t think they need you or the political elite dictating their fate.
what good has it done you are making such a mess of the world. you are running a circus a violent dictatorship. If you vote for that, that is a reflection of your intelligence and character. The political institution isn’t there by our choice.all political institutions and ideologies are enforced through the instrument of power and violence. And there is no line your institution will not cross. you will beat people in the street with bars attack people with chemical weapons and dogs.
So tell me who should I vote for,? Those people are criminals, not one decent decorous exception allegedly.

The reason people say they were turkeys voting for Christmas is because while they correctly identified the problem they misattributed the cause, it wasn’t the EU who deregulated the financial markets in 1980s and 1990s leading to the banks speculating with other peoples money, it wasn’t the EU who decimated the industrial heartlands of England, it wasn’t the EU who forced the UK to adopt an economic model of austerity, the chaos of the NHS, Universal Credit, social cleansing and housing was and has only ever been the responsibility of the UK government so if people didn’t agree with those policy perhaps they should have made that know in 2015 and/or every other general election that they never bothered turning up to.

– but the eu was the straw that broke the camels back. Unlimited migration from poor european countrys made surviving harder. Thus the one geste to overcome this by voting was taken. I lived in a mining town in the thatcher period , and witnessed the destruction first hand. The eu with all the benefits for some has had a nefaste effect on the all ready downtrodden. Just go to greece to see this too. And spain. And italy. And…and

Firstly Greece, Span, and Italy are not comparable to each other let alone the UK for far to many reasons to list in a comments section, basically that’s a non sequitur.

Secondly the UK has never had unlimited migration as despite appearances we’re not part of the schengen area, besides EU migrants contribute more to this country than both non-EU migrants and UK citizens, once again for many reasons, chiefly that they come over hear to work and pay taxes and when they reach retirement age they return home as it’s not far to travel.

Lastly the EU wasn’t the straw that broke the camels back, like i originally said the EU wasn’t responsible for the straws despite what 40 odd years of mainly right wing media outlets have been telling people, if the plan was to stick it to the man for years of hardship then handing him the keys to the castle so he can reshape the UK in his own image probably isn’t a good idea.

anyone from EU countries can come to the UK and live and work with the same rights to benefits and social advantages end of. that is what the EU enforced the government was complicit in this, the people voted accordingly.
not much to add really.

The figures need no explanation – 1997 we had 58.3 million population, 2017 it was 65.2. Seven million. More than ten percent in 20 years and it was never planned for, not housing not schools, not work, not employee protection, not the social impact. None of it. All successive governments have been concerned about is wage suppression.

Wealthy and powerful interests take precedence over the interests of ordinary voters in Britain, always have, always will (unless we have a bit of long overdue guillotining…). People naively thought leaving the EU would end large scale immigration but it’s not going to end until the CBI etc want it to, not when the people want it to. In fact, Brexit will probably make things worse – we’ll have the same downwards pressure on wages but our governments will be free to abolish EU workers protections.

– the E.U has never ever protected any workers. in fact the Eu wasnt designed to do that when created the ideology in the 1950’s product of walter halstein and jean monnet. it was dreamed up to create a united states of europe. no borders, to counter a russian power and the potential to have another world war in europe. the knock on effects are to be subject to the wills and needs of the corporations who can move labour and goods across borders without hindrance for the maximum financial benefit in the guise of ‘all together’
i have friends in France and myself have lived 19 years there- and the E.U. has not protected wages or jobs- in fact, through the open borders and possibility to delocalise manufacturing to lower paid countrys has created mass unemployment, and compressed wages for the few jobs remaining- minumum pay- or condemned to purgatory on the dole for years and losing any property, and goods you may have accumulated through this. Whirlpool in France has outsourced 100’s of jobs in the admin/payroll dept. to poland- thus creating unemployment in France in places where there is very little employment, and at 40 years old- you will be very very lucky to be hired in France as you are deemed ‘too old”- one of many, companys having taken this direction due to Europe and its policys ( that were conceived after ww2 with a 1950’s ideology)
– i have seen no employment protection thanks to Europe in my 19 years living there, i have seen factorys closing, and job precarity, unemployment and much misery.

The EU wasn’t designed to create a united states of Europe or to counter Russia (that’s NATO BTW) it was intended to strengthen the economic and cultural ties between European nations that had spent centuries fighting wars with each other and killing millions of people.

We are not talking about unlimited immigration, we are talking about large amounts of immigration that occurred in a very short amount of time that the infrastructure of this country was totally unprepared for. We all know Blair did not expect many to come, so what makes you think that a few million people in ten years, having children that required school places, doctors, nurses, housing and all the rest, was not going to affect anything?

Your assertion that immigration has been positive for the UK economy is based on flawed data. In any study, you need to understand that what they are doing is modelling a small amount of data and then extrapolating across the whole field. Secondly, you need to know the assumptions/parameters of the model. In the case of statistics that claim immigration to be of economic benefit, they all make significant presumptions and have certain exclusions. These range from assuming that all migrants are of working age, or do not measure the amount of in work benefits paid and only measure unemployment benefits, or do not take into account infrastructure spending to cater for new migrants (schools, hospitals, housing, transport etc.). Also, low paid migrants also grow old and will need pensions/housing/healthcare like anyone else, so the longterm future costs are not taken into account either.

Finally, if you look at how actual immigration numbers are reached you will see there are huge flaws in collection as regional airports and coach terminals are not included in data collection. Here are some nice quotes for you:
” a UCL study published in 2014 which found the fiscal impact of migrants in the UK between 1995 and 2011 was in fact a net cost of between £115 and £160 billion that is between £19 and £26 million per day.

The same study claimed that East European migrants contributed £5 billion to the Exchequer between 2001 and 2011. However that calculation was based on the assumption that they paid, from the moment of their arrival, corporate and business taxes at the same rate as lifelong UK residents.”

Note that last paragraph. Do you see how one simple assumption can skew figures in a massive way?

“A study by the NIESR in 2011 found that the potential long-run impact of EU8 migration (Poland et al) on GDP per head was expected to be “negligible” ranging from 0.17% to -0.17%. However, this result relied upon an upward ‘age adjustment’ on the assumption that migrants tended to be of working age and thus to be “net contributors to the government coffers”.

Do you see the assumption made in the data?

Even if migration does positively affect GDP, it is a simple economic fact that the bump in GDP (if there is one) only gives the gains to the migrants themselves and no one else in the economy.

The ‘yeah but immigration contributes to GDP’ argument has always been phooey, even if it was entirely accurate and above board GDP never translates to money in working class pockets. We also have bullshit economic indicators like the amount of foreign investment in the London property market, as though oil gangsters keeping huge swathes of valuable housing empty was a cause for celebration.

This shithole of a country is-the preserve of the rich and always has been, it’s just blatantly more so these days. People have almost stopped trying to hide that fact.

I go to Spain, a lot – after 40 years of work I think I deserve it and I’m still a UK tax payer. The attitude of the young and old that I know is very pro-EU. They blame the problems that they and the country face on their own politicians, not Brussels. They are no fans of the Euro, with justification, but it was their decision to join just as it was the UK’s decision to stay out.
I suspect that the Spanish are better informed by their media than the British. We all know about the owners of 80% of the newspaper industry who don’t live in the UK and the BBC has become a Torykip mouthpiece. I will never support the licence fee again.
British people like to think that they are somehow ‘better’ than the likes of those who live in places like Greece, Italy and Spain. In Spain home ownership is 80%. In the UK it is 62%. The British people have been had for decades now, and it hasn’t been by the EU.

I am from Norway and I have been living here since 2003. Of all the countries I have lived in before moving to the UK, the UK is the most volatile of them all in terms of political and economical instability. Maybe all of this harks back to the destruction done by “Thatcherism” policies on industries across the country, I just don’t know. I will say it as I see, the average Brit on the street is very proud of the nuances of what it means to be “British” and you are very quirky about your cultural traits and it can be very endearing sometimes to observe, only sometimes.
But the problem is that if you ask the average Brit on the street about current affairs, politics or even geopolitical issues outside this island most will have zero knowledge about any of it. Average Brit is a bit dim witted about issues or topics that affects them personally but very vocal whom to blame their issues on when they don’t have full understanding of it. It doesn’t take much to google what the EU is and what it does. Pick up a book about any topic of your choice and you will certainly be better informed after, I don’t see it. All I see is people are plain simple lazy and don’t seem to care. To the uneducated, every ills is the fault of everyone else.

You have conveniently forgotten the vast amount of EU money that has been given to similar deprived areas right across the North East of England for example.
Have you visited Hartlepool for example?? I suggest you do so. And read the signs!!

The Brexit referendum was for many the first real political choice that had been offered in decades. Even in 2015 the alternative to the winner was a man who issued a grovelling apology for once not paying obeisance to the deficit. And he was called radical — Red Ed.

That’s simply not true, politics doesn’t exist in isolation, it’s not something done to people, if you don’t like or agree with something then you become involved, you attempt to build support, you persuade others, you make an argument.

I doubt many remain voters were narrow-minded enought to tar all leave voters with the same brush: however, you seem to want to set up a victimology for your target group. Your reference to remainers “running around like headless chickens” rather nails your colours to the mast: you are as derogatory about those of us who care passionately about the economic future and stability of this country, as you accuse others of being about the leavers.

The simple fact is that the referendum campaign was completely bogus and the result an insult to democracy: your target group might not have chosen “leave” on the basis of racism, ignorance or just plain stupidity – but they were sold a basket of lies and distortions, and they weren’t helped by the patronising nature of the remain campaign.

Voting in a democracy needs to be mandatory. It also needs to include all target groups that will be affected by the decision. Finally, constitutional change is never effected on a straight majority vote – and certainly not on a non-binding, advisory vote as UK referenda are.

this seems a fair analysis and i think most reasonable remainers get at least some of the myriad reasons people voted to leave. However, the idea leave solves these issues is rightly scorned. The tragedy is that people have been sold a pup however well intentioned their vote. however whilst a minority, let’s not try to sweep under the carpet the more base motivations of part of the leave vote and the xenophobia that has fuelled it.

This article entirely misses the fact that marginalised working class voters have a very substantial history of accepting propaganda at face value, scapegoating minorities, migrants, foreign powers, when, in practice, our ills – lack of housing, collapsing health and social care, poor transport infrastructure, low pay, etc, etc – are entirely the responsibility of our own government. It’s a trend that’s run through European politics since the rise of Hitler in 1930s Germany. It lived with me as a youngster in the 50s, in a deprived working class borough that had voted Tory for generations. It’s understandable when the voices promoting the propaganda are so great that they drown out the voices of reason, and especially when the voices of reason are themselves weak, as they’ve been recently. But that doesn’t mean we should somehow applaud the ‘left out’ or the ‘left behind’ when they think they’re ‘making a stand against the establishment’ but, in reality, simply vote the way the propaganda tells them to vote. What it means is that the voices of reason need to provide some true and massively improved leadership.

Dave you seem to miss the important argument Lisa makes that Leave voters (however marginalised they might be) did not vote in ignorance or were dumb enough to be led astray “propaganda”. It makes the point, with evidence, that working class voters thought carefully about how they voted and saw this as an unique opportunity to have their say. There’s no evidence to say that they were more motivated by racism or anti-immigrant feeling than any other voter or class. There have been immigration controls that blame social problems on immigrants since at least 1948. All mainstream parties support immigration controls and the 2015 GE was fought between Labour and Tories over who would be toughest against immigration. Indeed the EU has continually toughened its laws to restrict non-European (i.e.non-white) immigrants and reinforced. Fortress Europe has disastrous consequences for non-European immigrants trying to seek haven in Europe. But you seem to turn a blind eye this relatively overt racism of the EU in its division of the world between white European labour and non-white Others.

“There’s no evidence to say that they were more motivated by racism or anti-immigrant feeling than any other voter or class”
I think that’s something you’re going to have to back with some sort of evidence, as I’ve seen contrary. It’s not that being a leave voter makes you a de facto racist, it’s just every racist IS a leave voter- that distinction is often not made clear enough as it’s there. Because every racist would vote leave, this means that voters that are not racist are often smeared as racist as well, just as anyone to the right of the political spectrum is more likely to be accused of racism even though they may not be.

Dave McCall wrote: “This article entirely misses the fact that marginalised working class voters have a very substantial history of accepting propaganda at face value, scapegoating minorities, migrants, foreign powers, when, in practice, our ills – lack of housing, collapsing health and social care, poor transport infrastructure, low pay, etc, etc – are entirely the responsibility of our own government. It’s a trend that’s run through European politics since the rise of Hitler in 1930s Germany. “. I suppose the comparison with Nazism was bound to come up, but I think it is misinformed. The rise of Nazism was not confined to “marginalised working class voters”. The NSDAP found support in a wide range of classes in the Weimar republic, not only the working class but also industrialists, normal employees, industrialists, university professors and students. (A significant proportion of the students in the Ludwig Maximilian University in Munich, one of the elite universities, supported the NSDAP in its early days.) In fact the NSDAP had a wider range of support than almost all other major parties, the exception being the catholic Zentrum. I am not an expert, but I read this in Kellerhoff’s recent book “Die NSDAP” and my impression is that what I have said is fairly well documented and uncontroversial. If you are going to draw comparisons between the Leave Campaign and the NSDAP I think you are going to have to do better than this.

“The rise of Nazism was not confined to “marginalised working class voters”.
Marginalization was subjective during the economic crisis – and it was pervasive. No excuse.
Nowadays, 52% can very well feel marginalized.
There may be more valid orguments against comparing Nazism and Brexit, I miss any in this post.
One similarity is that unfounded perceptions of victimhood bring out monsters among us and result in disasterous realities.
Democracy does not prevent war. The EU gave us 70 years of peace.
Compare that to the preceding 70 years. They did already have voting in those years.

I’m a Plumbing & Heating engineer, grew up in a one parent family on a council estate, used to be an anarchist – until the referendum showed up its limitations – and I too am sick to death of the middle class telling me that the EU is a great thing, when all that tells me is they haven’t had to suffer its enforced austerity. Yes, the Tories and new labour were responsible for where we’re at but the EU and it’s various treaties have been used to a) force through privatisation (articles 106 and 107 of the Treaty for the Functioning of the European Union – rules on competition and procurement), b) to enforce austerity onto the poorest with its public deficit limit of 3 per cent of gross domestic product and debt limit of 60 per cent of GDP. This has been used by ALL EU nations to make huge cuts to public services, and c) to deflect any responsibility. When we’re out of the unreformable collective corporate wank sock that is the EU, our wise and learned leaders will have no one to blame for the ills their policies have caused but themselves.
The reason the middle class are pissing their pants isn’t because we are all doomed. It’s because they are very comfortable thank you and fear change. I say bring it on.

Hats off to Lisa Mckenzie, for perhaps the most insightful article on this blog for the last 12 months. Her book “Getting By” is also well worth reading and by the way I am not related to or personally acquainted with her in any way.

Most of the responses to the article seem to be naive. The suggestion seems to be that, “Sally”, who as I understand has spent the last two years living with two small children in temporary accommodation, or “Anne”, who is separated from her children and grandchildren because they cannot find anywhere decent to live in the area she loves, are themselves to blame. Instead of shuffling the cards by voting “Leave” (and while we certainly don’t know what is going to happen with Brexit in 5, 10 or 20 years, it is certainly shuffling the cards), as a protest against the injustice done them by society, “Anne” and “Sally” should have become involved, perhaps by joining the local Labour Party and attending branch meetings to vote for higher public sector borrowing.

As someone who does not remotely inhabit the same position in society as “Anne” and “Sally”, I suppose that in fact Brexit itself is going to make very little difference to either of them. It is not going to solve the major problems in their lives, and they probably know this. Sally is quoted as saying “she didn’t know, and didn’t care. She just couldn’t stand things being the same.”

The Brexit vote was, in a way, just a symptom of a much bigger problem. The UK is one of the least socially mobile countries (see for example https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Intergenerational_mobility_graph-1.jpg ) and this leads to the experience of people like “Anne” and “Sally”. Leave or Remain, left or right, the
focus in British politics has to be on fixing this.

Once we disregard your attempt to invoke an emotive response there’s really not much substance left as you’ve failed to address how these problems, such as “Sally”, who has spent the last two years living with two small children in temporary accommodation, or “Anne”, who is separated from her children and grandchildren because they cannot find anywhere decent to live in the area she loves, how any of those issues are going to resolved by leaving the EU.

The whole referendum can be boiled down to the electorate being told by mainly right wing media outlets that all their problems are nothing to do with their own governments actions, or lack thereof, it’s all the EU’s fault, or *insert group here* fault.

– if there were less people in the country “sally” would have a better chance of getting some decent accomodation. I have personally seen EU migrants – with 6 children – being allocated housing above locals. i even questioned them on it. it doesnt work by how, much you have paid into the system, or how many years your great grandparents paid in- it is just numbers. more kids = more priority irrespective of where they originated from- basically opening the council accomodation list to all of europe, and anyone who decides to turn up. the solution – in my opinion- is very simple-
– copy/ paste australian migration criteria and policy (thats ctrl-c- ctrl- v) and its job done.

Lack of affordable housing has nothing to do with the 5% of the population that’s from the EU, if an EU migrant is being provided with accommodation and “locals” are not then that’s down to both national and local governance.

Added to that is how the UK government is perfectly within their rights to deport said migrant if they’ve not found a job within 3 months, something they have never (afaik) bothered to enforce mainly because the UK government decided to cut funding to border control and failed to keep track of who was entering the country from the EU.

The whole premises of this article is that “working class” people don’t exist to them however “working class” has nothing to do with it, the reason “they” don’t exist to them is because like yourself, they appear to lack even the most basic knowledge of the subject at hand and can’t be bothered to use the wealth of information at their finger tips that the internet affords them.

Yea not one of his cleverest moments, however the natural extension of that premiss, that house prices would fall by 18% because demand would decrease, leads naturally to the question of supply, supply and demand after all dictate price, so the question people should’ve asked is not how we decrease demand as EU migrants typically contribute more than they take out, but how we increase supply.

As it’s open season for academics’ working class credentials, let me begin. Grandson of a docker, a casual worker unemployed through the 30s and saw two young children die of poverty, my parents both left school at 13. I grew up in a prefab. Dad kept a very close eye on our education and when first my brother then myself went to university (1960s) grandad was so very proud of us. We had made it out of the poverty he had known for so many years – he was over 50 when he got his first employment contract and regular pay packet.
That is what sociologists used to call upward social mobility, something that we were all supposed to aspire to and respect. Some politicians bemoan the fact that Britain doesn’t have enough of it. These are often the ones who closed down the Tech Colleges and similar institutions where much of it used to happen.
The Beckhams – I looked them up. Both from Essex, both had skilled manual working fathers, her’s started his own business and became affluent (remember that term?), both mothers had been hairdressers. No silver spoons. Yet Sally and Anne can’t identify with them in any way. Why should that be?
I’ve always liked the quote from Steven J Gould, a very clear thinker –
“When people learn no tools of judgement and merely follow their hopes, the seeds of political manipulation are sown.”
The whole brexit game was one of scapegoating, immigrants then latterly muslims and of course “elites”. This, note, didn’t include the millionaires and billionaires who backed the two campaigns (why two?) nor the media owners who also backed brexit. The lies were told, the hatred was stirred up, and we know the rest. It is interesting perhaps that in Mrs May’s ‘Brexit General Election’ last year, far from gaining the 65 seat majority that Farage was predicting for her she lost her parliamentary majority.
I would have been interested to know what “Sally” would have said had Ms Mckenzie asked her if she was voting to make her life worse off. Would she have said that she didn’t know and didn’t care? We’ll never know will we.

No working class credentials here, immigrant from middle class academic background. However, I married into a working class family here – not racist, intelligent and knowledgeable, Labour supporting but worried about immigration. Almost all backed brexit – to control borders, to bring back sovereignty, EU too right wing, too business oriented, un-democratic, authoritarian. I respect them but I think they are profoundly wrong and don’t understand how they have reached the conclusions they did. I discuss with them but it never gets anywhere as nobody really wants to fall out.

If there had never been a referendum, or if had required a super majority, or had been 52-48 the other way, they would have carried in with their lives without looking back.

They are not avid news followers, are not aware of the great complexities in our path and buy into the idea that the EU is punishing us for leaving. They just want it to happen and think that we existed for centuries before the EU and were the most powerful nation in Europe – we’ll be fine on our own.

I despair. We need political leadership now more than ever and neither May nor Corbyn seem to have the slightest idea where we should be going and how. I see icebergs ahead, but no one is on watch.

@KG
The civil service largely voted to Remain.
Most Parliamentary MPs voted to Remain.
The current PM, and all other living PMs, and all other living opposition leaders, voted for Remain.
The urban media class largely voted to Remain.

Voting for Brexit may be a frustrated two-finger salute to ‘the establishment’ from some in the so-called working class, but I am not persuaded that by revealing themselves they are going to improve their situation. I agree that the ‘how did it happen’ soul searching has generally concluded that many Leave voters were simply expressing frustration and this should bring to the surface economic and social inequalities. But the shambolic and obsessive progress of the government in trying to deliver some sort of workable Brexit deal has not resulted in any real progress towards addressing inequality. Rather, it has provided a useful smokescreen to avoid any action.

In fact, given the tendency in the UK (well England anyway) to vote for right of centre political parties more often than left of centre parties, then the chances of addressing social inequality when we have further distanced ourselves from the European socialist movement becomes more unlikely.

I’m afraid I do think it is turkeys voting for Christmas, although I don’t think they are spiteful or racist.

It’s early days yet. I think you are probably right in saying that Brexit will not, in fact, improve the lot of “Anne”, “Sally” and others like them, and may well make it worse, but I do not have a crystal ball. It is conceivable that in 100 years political historians will see the Brexit vote as the beginning of a long-term realignment away from the consensus of the Major-Blair-Brown-Cameron years, with the unexpected success of Jeremy Corbyn in GE 2017 as the first fruits of this. (If the Brexit vote had gone the other way I suppose it is most likely that Cameron would still be prime minister, there would have been no GE in 2017, and Corbyn would be clinging on to the Labour leadership, doing badly in the polls and at war with most of the parliamentary Labour Party.) Conceivable, but not necessarily true.

As for “turkeys voting for Christmas”, I wish people would not use compare ordinary people with animals (politicians are fair game 🙂 People like “Anne” and “Sally” are rational beings like the rest of us, even if they are not educated in the gravity model and the laws of supply and demand. It’s OK to say that you think Leavers are wrong, but calling them names is not a way of promoting rational debate.

It’s good to see Lisa McKenzie do some genuine sociological analysis with a genuinely critical edge, unlike so many other academics that seem to be rushing to dismiss working class voters as stupid, uneducated racists. She has taken time to go out of the academic bubble and investigate people’s views.She’s dead right by commenting that “it is the middle-class Remainers who have been running around like headless chickens since the vote.” I think the most significant point is made at the end of the article when she writes “..Brexit has made a difference to working-class people dubbed ‘the left behind’. They have become visible for the first time in generations, and to some extent feared.” The Referendum vote has put the working class back on the political map, and hopefully this is just a very small glimpse of what might be yet to come. The left and academics have long given up on the idea that working class people are the ones who have most to gain from building a better society – the agents of history. Instead they prefer to see the working class as either passive victims of the system to be pitied or given sympathy. If they dare to assert themselves against middle class interests then they are attacked as racists, misogynists, aggressive and stupid and unqualified to judge or vote. If Brexit is just a tiny glimpse of what to come then brace yourselves for much more squarking from the headless chickens.

Thank you to Lisa for this article (especially as it relates to the Midlands) and to you for this comment.

I’m from Leicester and have taught in white working class communities there and in Coalville. It really does anger me that the children I taught and their parents are accused of racism by people who have never stepped foot in one of these estates. I’m British-Indian (so clearly an ethnic minority) and I suffered no racism at all, yet if I state this I am actually dismissed (apparently I’m not woke enough to realise that deep down of course they are). I don’t see racism as anymore a working class problem than anyone other groups.

I also know first hand from my knowledge of the British education system how shortchanged the working class have been educationally for almost 50 years, with progressive educational methods leading to poor outcomes. The left has done as much damage to the prospects of the poorest in the 1990s and 2000s as the right did in the 1980s economically.

Thank you to Lisa for this article (especially as it relates to the Midlands).

I’m from Leicester and have taught in white working class communities there and in Coalville. It really does anger me that the children I taught and their parents are accused of racism by people who have never stepped foot in one of these estates. I’m British-Indian (so clearly an ethnic minority) and I suffered no racism at all, yet if I state this I am dismissed (apparently I’m not “woke” enough to realise that deep down of course they all are).

We have in the education system slowly been uncovering the way that left-wing progressive methods have themselves been the reason why so many working class have failed to learn to read and write. The educational outcomes are the product of multiple factors but the loss is greatest in terms of being able to read. Illiteracy/Functional illiteracy itself is correlated with so many poor outcomes for people. However, this would expose the role of the left/liberal middle class who berate them in keeping them down.

All communities have good and bad aspects to their culture – the old industrial working class did too and it’s about time someone had more to say about their positive contributions to the country (middle class left just wants to focus on conflict hence why the white working class aren’t of as much interest because they haven’t rioted enough against the establishment over the years).

I’ve been saying for years that us working class folk are nothing more than hamsters in a wheel.

Your parents watched their parents run in the same circle, at the same speed and getting nowhere fast. Making minimum progress with maximum effort, all the while the only thing that changes are the salaries MPs get at our expense.

Work hard, they said once upon a time, and then it became work harder and for what? To continue scraping the bottom of the barrel in order to make ends meet? Wages aren’t enough for working class people to live on anymore because it’s all being slowly vacuumed up to meet the cost of tax breaks and MP payrises and expenses.

Having the ability to buy a washing machine without falling into debt is a luxury now, as is being able to afford school uniforms, bus fare, buy food, electricity, gas and keep a small car bought out of the yellow Ads paper for as cheap as possible.

The government have ignored protests, pish-poshed marches and outright laughed in the face of every single and much needed nurse in the country. The EU isn’t responsible for the laws our government pass through Parliament and nor is the EU responsible for turning the UK into a tax haven. The amount of obfuscation Parliament uses to dodge questions is sickening, reporters never call them out now that the media is Right Wing LTD, and this is a very dangerous time for the working class.

Disabled and those with mental health have suffered greatly under this vicious government, with a death toll in triple figures and a level of treatment that warranted an investigation by the United Nations. That should be horrifying the entire country, but it isn’t because it’s just disabled and sick people, right? People whom even the working class look down on as being part of the reason why they’re still dirt poor even after all these years of hard work.

Voting brings us nothing but more pain and only when we finally, finally work up the courage to start braying down the doors of Parliament with the demand that the governments stop causing it, will that pain come to an end.

If we don’t do something now? Our desperately needed lifeline in the form of the NHS will be gone and we’ll be under American private health care companies that charge a grand for an ambulance ride. It’s already halfway there in case the memo got lost in the post. It’s long overdue for us to club up together and go straight to the source and say No More.

When there are fights in Tescos car parks over basic food stuffs which have either run out or are limited because of disrupted supply chains, and when even the good manufacturing jobs have gone because companies have simply relocated to the EU, and when poles and Romanians decide to fight back rather than endure the abuse, maybe people who voted leave will take seriously the idea that, yes, they will be worse off after #brexit

Manufacturing relocate to the e.u. Makes me chuckle. I can return to the uk tommorrow put a cv out and get 4 job offers in manufacturing within 24 hrs. I can go to france put a cv out, and be struggling to get anything in 6 months. . I have lived extensively in Europe and the uk is good for manufacturing jobs.beats everyone except Germany hands down

More doom and gloom. Any chasms, sink holes all over the south coast or swarms of locusts in view? Good manufacturing stays in the uk because the uk is good at it.do you think for a second that a pole in the uk on 13 quid an hour will go back to his own country and work in the same job for 5 quid a hour with living costs just 15% cheaper than the uk? Thats the truth. Ask them, they will tell you. Supply chains can be adapted and this is happening today. Do you think the companys are waiting fgor t minus 5 to do it? Yeah yeah yeah the uk will sink without millions of eastern europeans on 5.50 per hour.. jog along

It is a divided working class, not only because other reports (like the JRF) suggest so, but also because they would be divided even if they voted all with one single mind. of course class struggle is intensified by the simple fact that ‘foreigners’ may offer cheaper cost of labour: this is the generalised antagonism of a capitalist society which enters in at each stage of renewal exploitation of labour. No need to fetishese the ‘working class’. Giving them a voice as the marginalised, in this context, is to assume a unity of the Crown and People. In cities like Liverpool did not happen, there there is a refusal of the racism of the sun. The narrative of The Nation does not apply to the whole working class, as this ethnography at end suggests. the task of critical sociology is not only to give voice to the voiceless, it is also about denying subjectivity where there is no subjectivity.

How did LSE academics manage to come up with a survey which defies the laws of supply and demand in the labour market and found that Eastern European migration had minimal effect on workers ? Did they take into account the fact that many temporary and agency workers are easy to undercut despite being in a union – and did they differentiate between those in a unionised workplace and those not ?
It seems to me that Brexit was about the working class trying to end the free movement sytem that had unemployed, undercut and otherwise undermined many of them. A study in Wales confirmed that
Shame you don’t mentionit – especially as most politicos now accept that. My wages and those of hundreds of my agency colleagues were cut by 20% or more after the agency started using Easter n European workers…..

I’m sure that there are working class people who are grateful the UK is in the EU. Whilst deindustrialisation has robbed many communities of their sources of employment the EU has allowed for certain new industries and sources of employment to emerge, though for some casualization, low pay and poor conditions are certainly an issue. There is also the point that many of the issues that face the working class, from lack of housing to employment opportunities, will not necessarily be addressed if the UK leaves the EU.

I wish I could attend “debates in pubs, cafes, nail bars, and the hairdressers” but I can’t afford to go to those places because I saved all my money and bought a house and a pension. I relocated when when I needed to for work and have re-skilled several times. Virtually none of the repeated slurs on foreigners are true, with many reports saying that there has been only a positive effect on the economy from them. I’m no Tebbite but life is always hard.

Not one constituency in Scotland voted to leave the EU, and there is as much deprivation, and as great a section of the population ‘working class’, here as in England. Why was the ‘left behind’ vote an English phenomenon? Could there be an element of nationalism involved? And dare I suggest that Scottish nationalism tends to be benign and pro EU whilst English nationalism does not? The largest political party in Scotland is the SNP which is pro EU membership. The two largest parties in England are not pro EU. Again, that might have something to do with the vote.

To misquote Shakespeare a little; The EVEL that men do lives after them…

I am sure there was a great deal of ‘squeaky wheel’ resentment played upon in the run-up to the referendum.

Yet – there were very few constituencies where an electoral-majority ‘voted’ either way.

The people are to be congratulated, with all the forces of Party-Politics arranged against them, it was the Politicians that were left scrambling for an excuse to pursue their original plan of Brexit; with the invention of ‘result’ from a ‘glorified opinion-poll’.

Such a pity then that there was such a fan of delusion at the head of the Labour Party to assist the establishment with their aims.

I agree with what you say and would add that the SNP’s governmental policies which help to alleviate Westminster’s austerity agenda thereby putting working class people in a better position than there counterparts in the other countries of the UK has to have had an effect on the vote for remain in Scotland. In addition people recall that in the 80’s and 90’s when Scottish working class communities were decimated by de-industrialisation and poverty the EU’s schemes to help poorer areas kicked in and helped by financing infrastructure and social programmes which would never have been funded by the then conservative government. It would be worth comparing the Scottish working class experience with a similar area that de-industrialised in England and see what the political differences meant for the vote in the referendum?

Alternatively, it might just be a case of ‘my enemy’s enemy is my friend’. The tone of debate, aka slanging match, that was prevalent between ‘Nats’ and ‘Yoons’ during the Scottish Independence referendum didn’t seem very benign to me. And then there’s the English!

Several generations of families thinking they will be housed by their government is a trap. It becomes a family tradition while the rest of us assume absolutely no right to government housing.

My mother raised me and my brother and sister on her own without entering this trap. Instead she found work with tied housing to raise us well. As soon as we could we worked and contributed £5 a week plus half the rest to our Mum from our wage until we formed our own families. Our Mum was able to retire in her own bungalow bought with cash.

Neither did we expect the government to provide us with jobs. We saw deindustrialisation as a direct result of globalization to help raise the living standards of poor people in other countries of this world. We had no right to deprive them of the opportunity to work with their backs and hands. We in developed economies had to develop new competences so our work would add value to data and information; such as it was the IT revolution.

Consequently we knew we had to make our own way after leaving school, starting with working where we could afford to live. Getting married and then saving to buy our own homes before we had children.

As the eldest I left school at 15 with no quals but had worked and saved enough by my early 30’s to take two years off while while caring for my ex-school teacher wife who stayed at home to be the mother of our three kids while I studied for a masters degree.

Staying put to get on a housing list and complaining about immigrants and social cleansing may stop us from even thinking that we can make our own way to prosper in this world. Our children and their children wouldn’t dream of applying for a council house. But for some families it became a tradition.

Today, as a volunteer computer buddy I help scores of retired folk to learn how to use computers for the first time. They now regret doing their best to ignore the IT revolution and not buying a cheap computer in the earler 1980’s. They voted Leave too.

After reading, I find myself wishing you had spent more time on your story, that interspersing it with disdain for others.
I might then have learned how you went from ‘no quals’ to obtaining a master’s degree in two years. And, perhaps, how you squared any possible indebtedness flowing from your tertiary education with your other commitments.
I’m left wondering whether that education was free – State-aided for the greater good, just like Council housing.
Rather by-the-way, I too coach ‘seniors’ in IT. People who are far more interested in communicating with the wider-world than with regrets.

After seeing how hard my Mum worked to keep us from relying on government for our housing or our jobs my disdain for those who do may well have shone through; hopefully to inspire others not to be trapped by their deep-rooted expections of government.

Careful study of postgrad courses revealled to me that I could enrol in a MSc course for which I was qualified by experience. But I had to pass that course well to prove I could study at that level before the university would accept me studying and reading for an MSc. So, the system required me to study for two masters before I was awarded one.

It was state aided but I had to pay fees because I had worked overseas for over 10 years before in enrolled. By working overseas I also saved enough to buy a small home near the university.

Also, please forgive my disdain for my state education.

But I agree with you that my fellow seniors mainly now want know to learn how to use their computers, phones and tablets to communicate with their distant children, many of whom live overseas.

As my clients understand the wider usefulness of computers many regret their ignoring of the IT revolution.

“Yes, an excellent example of capitalists delivering win:win:win.
For the poor, the capitalists and the customers.”

Not for that subsection of “the poor” who are the main subject of this article, surely.
Nor for those who are currently navigating the Mediterranean Sea. Sans cruise ship.
To name but 2 of the many groups of losers in globalisation.

As for the customers, I have been sending repeated emails to Amazon regarding non-delivery of Christmas gifts, 2 out of 5 of which have not arrived and one of the 2 replacements will, today Saturday, also be classed as missing, it seems.

Though obviously one person’s experience is far from definitive. As a certain airline is constantly reminding us.

But Yes, I will grant you that the capitalists have made a killing.

“It left us at least two problems to solve: lifelong learning ….
Our trades unions may still solve the first (if more of them seize the opportunity)”

What planet do you live on, I wonder.
Have you set foot in a bog-standard (thank you Alistair and Tony) English state school within the last 40 years, I ask.
Had you done so, you would appreciate that “learning” tout-court went out of fashion for many locals oh so long ago.

“It left us at least two problems to solve: …. and environmental protection.
… and our technology to limit global warming may address the second.”

Yes, Amazon’s deliveries were lousy over Christmas. So bad I experienced the excellence of my local Maplin store for my Thai-made Wi-fi server and very good it is too.

We reward the Thai workers, in this example, who learned and applied new skills so they could bring a better life to their families by adding value to metal, plastic and silicon.

Back here we learned new skills, starting in the 1980’s, to be part of the IT revolution by adding value to data, information and people instead of waiting for a factory to land on our doorstep.

We can see why communist China adopted capitalism so the Chinese could learn and work their way out of poverty not necessarily by working for capitalists.

Meanwhile our trades unions (Unite’s lifelong service are an exception) kept their members locked in their obsolescent trades. Why, with highly predictable consequences, did the NUM fail its members in this regard?

Having to learn lifelong is a fact of life. I learned this soon after I qualified as a 16-year old paint sprayer and saw my work boots fall apart after six weeks. Forgive me for not crediting my state education.

A better life for all humans instead of just those living in our country, or those who may vote for us, is what I call progressive politics.

Voting to be rescued by any politician strikes me as desperate. Better for each of us to have a strong sense of purpose for our lives and to learn and to work to fulfill that purpose instead of relying on the government to care for our family, our community and ourselves.

Expanding the EU to include former members of the USSR was slyly negotiated and its consequences for our NHS, housing and infrastructure could’ve done with a ten-year transition period to raise the necessary taxes before Gordon Brown ended the boom years.

Leaving the EU fifteen years later may or may not help us to earn more by serving others through our work but I doubt we will keep much of it. Still we’ve yet to raise the taxes to pay for a larger Navy to protect our shipping and fishing rights.

I’m now chronically ill and in need of ever shrinking and permanently threatened benefits, reliant on an underfunded, soon-to-be-privatised NHS and trapped in a crap area because I live in a secure tenancy housing association house and would be a lunatic to leave it so please don’t tell me not to rely on politicians. We *all* rely on politicians for what they allow us to have – even fucking Branson or Phillip Green could be hit with a 99.99999% tax rate tomorrow (please make his happen someone). I personally need this government out of office soonest possible or I’ll be another dead benefit claimant statistic in all likelihood. This is not an exaggeration and there are hundreds of thousands – probably millions – more like me and worse of still. Bear this in mind to avoid appearing so glib next time. People like us exist.

We should never have let that many people in regardless of the readiness or otherwise. Immigration – amongst many other things, unemplyment, lack of industry and the proliferation of so many supermarkets and shopping centres included – has made many communities unrecognisable and changed them for the worse.

Brexit won’t help but I fully understand why it happened. As I said before, bigger interests always win out, we’re just here to be ignored, patronised and lied at.

Resolute non-learners may have themselves, their parents or teachers to blame. Together may amount to an anti-learning culture. Dare I say that we used to have the same culture with respect to work? Nudge theory gradually removed the barriers to work and we may need our government to take a similar approach to learning for better (more rewarding) work and lives.

Sorry, for using the NUM as an example but former mining communities are still hurting. Trade-specific unions hinder lifelong learning and this is where Unite has an advantage in taking care of the long term interests of its members. Why the TUC has not facilitating the strategic planning of its unions so they have a broader outlook and become sustainable in doing a better job of serving trade union members for their multi-career lives is a mystery to me.

Of course globalization has pros and cons but growing and sharing the available work around the world must reduce the desperation, conflict and payments made to the operators of barely seaworthy boats. We’ve made a good start but now is not the time to reverse globalization but the manage it:

Sorry if I seem a little thick,I am only working class.
Did I dream that a large amount of people voted to come out of the EU.Because everything I hear about negotiation is telling me that we are still being ignored and that nothing is going to change.
Isn’t it funny how our little flash Inthe pan can so soon be forgot.
I’m getting worried, we’re still being ignored,As USUAL.

Dear Lesley,
I tried to post a reply to you earlier but I don’t know where it’s gone. As far as I can tell, negotiations are still very much underway.
Difficulty is, the Leave package as offered (though most Leave voters appear to have picked & mixed from that as well) doesn’t exist. Negotiators are now scrabbling to cobble something together that is obtainable, because some of them really do care. Not the likes of Johnson and Rees-Mogg, who will profit from any outcome.
The EU are constrained by their own rules as to what they can offer us without self-destructing.
We are all collateral damage of an internal power struggle in the Tory party. Either side at the end was promising/threatening anything just in order to win that Referendum. Lazy Dave put no safeguards in place to determine how, or even if (Northern Ireland) we could exit if Leave won, because he fully expected the status quo to continue.
The actions in government of the Tory party over the last ten years have been short-sighted, irresponsible and often cruel in the extreme. Most of the problems people voted leave over originated in Westminster in areas where Brussels has no say. They need to be solved from Westminster. The UK is now coming close to crunch time, when politicians will either have to embrace an economic earthquake which will hurt the poorest most, or face/own up to their lies and prevarication.

Dear Lesley,
I’m very much afraid that we are all the victims of a power struggle within the Conservative party. Wanting to be rid of the hassle caused by this struggle rumbling on and on (remember John Major’s frustration with ”the bastards”), lazy Dave Cameron promised a referendum. Fully expecting the status quo to continue, he set up no parameters or safeguards that would prevent a close result from descending into the chaos we are now dealing with.
Over the past ten years I have been aghast at the short-sighted, immoral and cruel actions of successive Tory governments, who have left those who were already badly off in now often desperate circumstances.
However, the Leave package that was offered to voters doesn’t exist. The EU are constrained by their own rules as to what they can offer us without self-destructing. UK now needs to choose between embracing economic earthquake, hurting the poorest most, or politicians owning up to their lies and prevarication.
Most of the problems people voted Leave over can only be addressed from Westminster, Brussels has no say in them.

I’m a 47 year old who has grown up and existed happily in the EU, working and living in various European countries. Brexit to me is a pure catastrophe, a self-inflicted wound, the result of ignorance, carelessness, surliness and, no doubt you are right to suggest, despair. But I’m so angry with those who voted for it in the communities you describe that a perverse part of me is looking forward to watching as they realize the bitter consequences their vote will bring in their own lives: wages plunging, factories closing, prices rising, budget airlines going bust, no more cheap holidays. Bring it on.

I voted leave for many reasons and spend some time on pro EU Facebook pages trying to dispel the many myths about the benefits of our EU membership. I have been rather shocked by the amount of bigotry that has taken hold amongst some Remain supporters who lump almost all Leavers into derogatory categories such as racist, xenophobe, stupid, bigoted, backward-looking, etc. With one vociferous post I could almost take out the words Leave and Remain and substitute them with black and white to uncover attitudes that should have died out decades ago.
Sadly this could go on for several years. Remain are trying hard to scupper Brexit and the likelihood is we will end up half in, half out. The tug of war will continue until somehow the issue is resolved. but in the meantime the vilification will continue and we will have added a new prejudice to our shameful list.

Toecutter – don’t fall into the same human failing of labeling a diverse group with one derogatory image. Some Remain voters fit your description but by no means all. As an ex-member of the Green Party I know many Remainers who listen with interest to my views and don’t make the shallow criticisms that I often get online.

‘Nice Marks and Spencer undies’. The ones made in Bangladesh? It’s not the TRUE middle class who are despisable. It’s not the altruistic parts of the middle class (often teachers) who are despisable, those who spend considerable time hanging around the working class, giving them not only something to aspire to but also learning from the working class themselves. It’s the rarely spend any time in Britain, rarely talk to a white young male in a meaningful way that doesn’t imply being contaminated, middle class who are despisable.

Because what’s despisable is that part of the middle class don’t care to realise that the contamination is THEM. That part of the middle class often try to portray the upper class (or the very monied nouveau rich who’ve worked for it alike) as fantasist vulgarians.

But it’s the Marks and Spencer buying underwear set, not caring that the underwear is made in Bangladesh, spendng more time abroad than in Britain,who are the real disease in the UK. Neither fish nor fowl, neither salt of the earth nor particularly talented nor particularly passionate, they bring self satisfied children in to the world as if it is the most natural thing in the world;

Thank you for this. Thank you so so much for this.
I’ll admit I’ve gotten emotional ready this, because for once it feels like the voices of the people I care about are being heard for once in their lives.
They were born here, they’ve worked to the bone here and they’ll die here: but society sneers at them. They keep things working, keep the lights on as it were and the better off call them names for daring to want the tiniest modicum of recognition for doing more than the scornful elite will ever manage to do.
My mum has always struggled, so has my granma, so has most of my family. My older brother is struggling right now and he might not make it out on the other side. But nobody wants to acknowledge us. Who cares about the cost of food or getting a job when the colours of passports are on line?
Remain looked more and more like the rich peoples view, that the EU was their little pet project and the ordinary people, the ‘common classes’ were going to spoil it for them.
Leave never promised it would be better in any believable way, but Brexit made something clear: if we’re going to spend generations being screwed over, at least we FINALLY have the chance to drag down the parasites with us.
If we don’t get to have homes and food, that basic life security, then they don’t get their precious multinational union of politicians and political systems that think the people they are responsible for aren’t anything but inconvenient pests that get in the way of THEIR ambitions.

So thank you: because you seem to be the only person who listens when the people I care about say they’re fed up with life being so unrelentingly harsh, instead of blaming it all on them like the rest.

thought slike millions of others in the UK.
after all, the working classes are there for that- to work, pay taxes, breed and onto the next generation whilst keeping the elites in power and (lots) of money for them and their kin.
the only thing they havent taken away, (as yet but in a way the EU has achieved it through rendering the people we vote for in the EU voiceless puppets) is voting. yes the simple vote in the ballot box.
again and again, it has been pointed out that the purpose of the EU was the creation of a superstate- remoaners talked it down, but the truth is there.
google walter hallstein you will come up with a nice pdf to download with such mentions as “full integration” ‘EU government not playing second fiddle to local governments’ and more. the direct link is broken to the EU site.
another https://www.politico.eu/article/spds-martin-schulz-wants-united-states-of-europe-by-2025/

this is where we are at. as the 1950’s walter hallstein doctrine was to build a european superstate to square up to the ussr- they are still at this purpose that they have locked onto 68 years later.
that is the objective, that is what you get.
a all powerfull superstate in europe-empire building.
the ‘plebs’ place is disposable labour for this purpose. Whether you do it hard, suffer or live in poverty through their actions its irrelevant, you are there to feed the machine, oil the cogs- the machine infernal of the EU. and you cannot vote them out. you are of insignificance, as long as those factorys and jobs can be moved to cheaper labour countrys in the EU, and the big money can be made by the corporations , you only have to see the amount of ‘designed in Germany- made in slovakia’ products in your daily life to realise the reason for the EU, and who runs it, for what reasons going right back to the foundators of the EU -walter hallstein and jean monnet.
The EU putting barriers between the ‘plebs’ and themselves in the form of powerless mep’s to keep them selves in power is the last brick in the system.
“The European Single Market, Internal Market or Common Market is a single market which seeks to guarantee the free movement of goods, capital, services, and labour – the “four freedoms” – within the European Union (EU)”

The Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse

The Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse are described by John of Patmos in his Book of Revelation, the last book of the New Testament. The chapter tells of a “‘book’, or ‘scroll’, in God’s right hand that is sealed with seven seals”. The Lamb of God, or Lion of Judah, (Jesus Christ) opens the first four of the seven seals, which summons forth four beings that ride out on white, red, black, and pale horses. Although some interpretations differ, in most accounts, the four riders are seen as symbolizing Conquest, War, Famine, and Death, respectively. The Christian apocalyptic vision is that the four horsemen are to set a divine apocalypse upon the world as harbingers of the Last Judgment.

The White Horse

I watched as the Lamb opened the first of the seven seals. Then I heard one of the four living creatures say in a voice like thunder, “Come and see!” I looked, and there before me was a white horse! Its rider held a bow, and he was given a crown, and he rode out as a conqueror bent on conquest. ( Revelation 6:1-2)

The Red Horse

When the Lamb opened the second seal, I heard the second living creature say, “Come and see!” Then another horse came out, a fiery red one. Its rider was given power to take peace from the earth and to make men slay each other. To him was given a large sword. ( Revelation 6:3-4)

The Black Horse

When the Lamb opened the third seal, I heard the third living creature say, “Come and see!” I looked, and there before me was a black horse! Its rider was holding a pair of scales in his hand. Then I heard what sounded like a voice among the four living creatures, saying, “A quart of wheat for a day’s wages, and three quarts of barley for a day’s wages, and do not damage the oil and the wine!” (Revelation 6:5-6)

The Pale Horse

When the Lamb opened the fourth seal, I heard the voice of the fourth living creature say, “Come and see!” I looked and there before me was a pale horse! Its rider was named Death, and Hades was following close behind him. They were given power over a fourth of the earth to kill by sword, famine, and plague, and by the wild beasts of the earth. (Revelation 6:7-8)

I am not religeous in any way means or form, but i can see likeness without digging far in the Eu 4 freedoms and their result.

I suppose that well it is true that the Eu has always had a political objective to create a United States if Europe. This is because the Roman Empire or the dream of the Roman Empire as an idea was never destroyed. I also think both sides of brexit have been telling lies. The SNP have not helped either Republic of Ireland has made it clear it intends to spoil the clean sheet with it and the uk. Right now I think we’ll i think there are two ideas of a united Europe taking shape one economic and the other political.

The political institutions are a sinking ship.
And we would rather go down with it then be exploited any longer. the political institution is responsible for the starving and the degradation, because this world without any scientific or technological advancement can feed 15 billion people. So so with only 8 billion people there is no excuse for people starving. That institution is responsible.
There is 12 trillion pound of wealth in this country that’s more than 20 million pound each. There’s plenty to go round but who would take the bins out. They are running a circus they bastardize everything we eat, and control everything we do for what they call progression and a peaceful Society for the status quo.
Let me tell you something, what we call progression is progressively moving off in the direction of destroying everything, and all your political institutions and ideologies are only enforced through the instruments of power and violence.
Anything that grows out of this institution will end up in violence. that is a fact whether you accept it or not. I maintain the political institutions are nothing but a warty outgrowth of the religious thinking of Man. How many men women and children have we killed in the Name of Love Thy Neighbour as thyself. There’s no way out because even the exploited, wants his wealth, if the rich man offered a poor man a million pound he will snatch his hand off. This is our fault if they don’t do the job, we should make them do the job, and if they still can’t do the job we should kick them out.

Britain managed without the common market prior to 1973 right? Working people had a steady job and a living wage and an affordable place to live and a good work and leisure balance. What happened after Britain entered the common market there were strikes, the 3 day week and uncontrolled unskilled immigrantion into the UK. Of course the middle classes don’t want to see us the working people have a better quality of life. Let’s push for what’s right people’s without rocking the boat. I.E Brits to get priority over housing instead of someone from Iraq or Sudan where ever. Charity begins at home and no its not racist it’s right! And introduce a minimum of 11.00 per hour in London and a 40 hour week. Most Brits work far too long hours. And create more jobs where people answer phones instead of automated messages. Things will and can improve.

I can imagine that a lot of WC people like myself voted for others rather than themselves, I voted for my son as I see EU policies of free movement and the intolerable levels of movement from ex communist countries now in Europe to the poorer areas of the UK was the tipping point after decades of industrial deinvestment in these communities. Labour and the Tories wrestled from the early sixties regarding membership of this project called the EEC, a tight vote in 1971 paved the way for where we are today. Britain has changed as they face the future in No Deal Brexit Britain, this will of course cause a lot of upset among the Liberal elites and the left wing Tories, but they surely saw it coming, I did years ago, something had to give, something big, we now are out and will go onto a new future based on our abilities to be able to react to the needs of other trading blocks around the world willing to trade with us, this is not without it’s risks, namely over populated countries like Brazil, India, China and others making immigration part of the deal, this could start the whole ball running again for future generations, only time will tell.

This is an insightful article, but it misses the point that we also have decimated working class communities in Scotland and Northern Ireland. The difference is that we would never trust Westminster over Europe, because ‘our government’ has made it clear for many decades what it thinks of us by publicly branding us scroungers, drug takers, and a drain on society and sending the ‘British’ army into towns and cities in Northern Ireland. Even as a five year old kid I knew that our government hated us. This isn’t a class issue, it’s a cultural one. If you believe that if you can just get these idiots in power to see you, then they’ll take care of you, then a vote to get noticed probably does look appealing. Thatcher and every tory since taught us in Scotland and NI that just isn’t true.

I firmly believe that the problems start in the UK at the top of the civil service, we have seen from TV programmes and books from ex political leaders how difficult a job they have implementing the policies they want in their departments because of the very nature of the mandarins in the civil service, it is sickening to think that the least democratic aspect of government puts the most obstacles in the way of progressive policies any enlightened politician wants. I am for one hugely disillusioned by the whole political process as it delivers little in comparison to what is needed. No, we are not a population of scroungers as the government sometimes perceives us, we are in fact a people of high tolerance whose expectations are rarely met in the people we vote for in parliament, unlike the French we remain stoic that our tomorrows will be better then today but in reality we all know this to be foolish but optimistic we remain, however difficult this is at times.
Brexit is a thorny problem for Westminster, on the one hand we have a deal that favors our friends in the EU, a shambolic isolated PM must sell this deal knowing fine well that it will never pass muster as yet again the parties and s muster in the house, so the next few weeks will be interesting if not painful to witness as the parties again rip themselves to shreds over the vexing issue, party loyalty will mean nothing and daggers will be drawn as we enter a fortnight where the stakes are so high and the consequences so unknown, the mandarins in Whitehall will be shaking with contempt no matter which way the axe falls.

None of the assumptions made in this article occurred to the working-class Leave voters. It was their chance to say simultaneously ya-boo to Cameron, Osborne, and Johnny Foreigner. For decades, even arguably centuries, the working-class had been brainwashed into accepting their place and lot by being taught that they had some people and countries that they could look down on, because they were not British. At the same time, the propaganda allowed them to assume therefore that by definition, other (non-British) would see them as superior – something they had not experienced in purely British life.
This scenario gave the pride by looking down, and acceptance of place when looking up ! Human conditioning at its best !

That Cleese, Barker and Corbett sketch of many years ago was as profound as it was funny, and it perfectly represented the British Control/Accept/ societal attitude to life. That the EU were innocents in their stagnation did not occur to the working-class Leave voters, but it will do when their poverty arrives….

I am working class and I did not vote either in or out. I was two years old when we entered into Europe. To young to remember or have a say. I’m explaining this as I see it. I have been unlucky to be plagued with problems since I can remeber so struggerling with education back in the early 80’s led to no qualifications and finding work after leaving school which was almost non existant for me beacuse of my epilepsy.

By the 90’s I had to sign on as my parents could not afford to keep me. I managed to find only Volutary work which lead to paid work after 12 years due to a change in government rules and permited work whilst in recipt of benefits. In that time I struggled to find work and also I had difficulty holding down full time jobs and this was having an effect on my mentsl health. Since 2016 I was made redundant from my part time job and since 1996 had to live with Mental health and have been let down by these services. And this why I did not vote and don’ vote since 2010 due to government health reformes in mental health because I was screwed by the government whilst in Europe and it will be the same for me when we leave if we leave.

Hi I am and always have been a lover of Europe. The European Union came together after the 2nd world war. There are many ideals of which we should be proud of. My concern when I voted and I was so border line. I don’t really know what goes on in the European Union. I don’t feel that I know who they are, the more power they have comes mainly from Germany & France and every year they push for more power that my vote means nothing in the democratic process of the Uk. I understood everything the different sides pledged for and I thought they were both very ridiculous. But in the end it’s about our future and our children’s. We have become so divided that we can’t see the wood through the trees. Everyone wants to fight for their vote stubbornly especially parliament; and the powers of Europe are quite confident that we will grovel back to them. Then we have even less power. The smaller countries of Europe depended on the Uk to fight against things that they didn’t want . When or if but probably when we return we will not have the same power or threat of a referendum. So Europe will not be inclined to listen to our views. All I’m saying is labour voters are under an illusion that the European Union is a left wing charity. They are the most powerful capatist regime in the world. Several of their MEP’s work or have worked for Goldman Sacs bank. They need countries like the Uk to calm them down so they will have respect for the weaker members that also might leave. I would like a Europe that does have a multi partnership honouring and working together. Encouraging peace harmony and prosperity but the European Union of today needs a little bit of old fashion democracy. They are so far away doing what ever they do. They don’t really have a relationship with the people. Even the Uk and Ireland voted to leave I think other countries did too but they are so powerful we can’t even leave them. I’m not against remaining I just don’t trust this beuracracy that’s here now. The European Union needs to be more transparent and needs to encourage a closer connection with each population in each member country; and we the people should have a say in the members of the European Union. Then I would trust them, my vote was not about race or the NHS – it was about protecting our democracy. I voted to leave and I am just an ordinary person. I care about my fellow man . Please work together and protect democracy.

There’s way too much to read here, but Una above takes a an excellent reflection on democracy and our homogenized union with the wider EU. I supported the EU project, but if even we remained the vote would forever change our position in Europe. Europe is coercive, leaderless, our voice is diluted, democracy is smothered. My opinion changed day Barrack said we’d go to the back of the queue. I have no objection to immigration but I detest the exploitation we have witnessed by UK companies from mobility of cheap labour. I now support Brexit, it brings self determination and the potential to value worker rights and well-being regardless of where they come from

I think this article is spot on. It has clearly captured the core reasons for Brexit – they felt they had nothing to lose. The disconnect between Westminster and decent ordinary folk was clearly manisfest on Brexit night by a comment from Ian Duncan Smith. “Well something is getting them to come out,” he said of people on council estates, or words to that effect. I thought how incredible it was that he had no idea they were voting for his side.
Of course the elephant in the room, which has nothing to do with Brexit, is globalisation. It’s been denuding salaries in fields like IT for nearly twenty years. When we leave the EU I fear that its effects will bite even deeper.

Of course, “We don’t exist to them”. The recent Parliamentary chicanery to stop Brexit proves that. There was never any doubt that a remain Parliament would either kill Brexit or at best come up with some sort of BRINO deal. Now they have even dropped the pretence that they, “respect the Referendum result, but”, They are ignoring the 17.4 million and are brazenly pursuing their own agenda. The only thing both parties will agree on is to remain in the EU at any cost. However, it clearly demonstrates that we have a Democracy In Name Only. It’s taken over two years to get here but now the truth has finally emerged and the illusion of democracy is revealed. The many years in the EU has diluted our political ability to, create laws, negotiate trade deals or even exist as an independent country. Politics in this country have been changed forever and drastic Parliamentary reform is essential, but, the damage has been done. We have long memories. The days are numbered for both the Conservative and Labour parties.

After this week, I really am struggling to believe how out if touch with the “people” the current politicians are. They really are taking us all for mugs.
As a life long conservative voter (sorry) my opinion of May could not get any lower. It’s got to the point that you just cannot believe a word that she speaks. She’s just Oli Robbin’s puppet. I’m am so disillusioned right now. What has our parliament achieved in 1000 days? They have proved what we have suspected for a long time. Shocking.

Vote to leave and all your wildest dreams will come true…the low IQ’s siren call, drawn like moths to a flame.

The silver lining, if we do leave on the lack of terms the sell everything millionaire spivs, New Victorian elites, Russian brexit bankrollers and right wing media cheerleaders peddled to the adoring flag waving herd of gullibles, is that it will be the gullibles alone that will suffer the very worst of it all and rightly so. No prizes for guessing who their handlers new scapegoats will be.. again.

Things can’t get any worse..? They can and will get a lot worst, that delusional bubble will burst.

The amusing brexit paradox, the intensity of the flag waver’s patriotic fervour depressingly proportional to arrogance and general ignorance about the country’s history. A myriad flag waving fantasies held dear, evapourating as unleashed reality bites.

Remain in the EU and your dream will become a nightmare. The rise of populism, mass immigration, economic downturn, protectionism, the Euro, European Army, etc, etc, and, your Parliament reduced to a Council Chamber in the United States of Europe. Careful what you dream for.

The goal of the Eu is for all countries to cease to exist and there will only be Federal Europe run by the Commission in Belgium, there wont be governments in countries that no longer exist.

Think about everything else that will also cease to exist if your country no longer exists.
And it might be that celebrating anything from what country you were from might also be considered a criminal offense under Federal Europe.

From my own point of view thank goodness for Nigel Farage. He has given me someone who I WANT to vote for.
I have worked all my life in England, having been born in London 70 years ago. I have never felt that I had a party to vote for that would ever make any headway in this land of selfish first past the post politics. For the first time in my life I have paid to become a member of a party political party in England. The BREXIT party I feel, has given me a life-line to vote for someone with Meaning and GUTS. As for the Lib Dems who I voted for for most of my life have now become UNDEMOCRATIC. Vince Cable does NOT BELIEVE IN DEMOCRACY – That is the bottom line here. England is being swamped by poor Europeans believing Britain is so wonderful. Believe me, if you are a low paid worker, Britain is not so wonderful. If you are a lazy good for nothing lying type of individual, you will do well in Brtain. Thank you Lisa for your excellent original post and for giving me the opportunity in commenting here.

I am now 81 so dont have more than ten years probably to go, God willing, but I can honestly say that in all my life I can neve, never recall having a better standered of living whenever the so called Tory Party has ever been in power. For me, having an intererest in Britains history , they have always been for the ordinary working class a desease, scum and have kept us in poverty, ignorant in living conditions which only got better by the 1960s. This was largely due to the obtaining of power be the Labour party, ie Socialism and for and up to about the late 70s our living standards rose .
Unfortunately the advent of the Tories gaining power under Thatcher saw the beginnings of a deteriation of our living ,as our national assets were soled of or stripped down, and dictitorial methods designed purely to smash the power of all Unions was the priority. Sold off our steel industry, coal mines closed whilst other countries subsidised theirs and we imported coal from abroad, so it was the beginning of a downtrend of work and jobs for our people. We were taken in to the EU on the understanding it was purely a Trade arrangement to make the ease of goods between Europeons but by 2000 we it became a polotical one, with a few hundreds MEPs ruling and enforcing their dictate to it member stated as to what will they be allowed to do so long as it fits in with Brussels dictate. We now have had 10 years of this Tory governments Austerity measures , the country is in a mess , the poor now know of Food Banks, can you remember when our country was ever on such dire straits as to need Food Banks.
We have to put up with this whilst 3 million of our so called EU member states lumber us with those from their countried so poor they cant barely pay their share of being a member of the EU . Only 1 million from Britain are seeking work amongst all the Eu counstries whils we , one member have to put up with their 3 million. Many of those dont see as a place for work, but a gravy train, a soft touch if you dont want work but get paid for avoiding it. The truth is, if there is not enough jobs at a decent wage, for Britains no one should be allowed in to our country without a job to go to, not have them forced on us by a few hundred well paid MEPs in Brussels.
If we ever want to have a true figure of votes to get a party running our country if should be mantatory for all its people to have to vote else how are we to ever get a party in power by shear votes alone ?.
The sad thing is that in the past 25 years the so called Socialist Labour Party has gone from Socialism to Social Liberism , too many running it that have no knowledge of what it means to be a worker, being educated most of them coming from middle class education, universities etc.
We need more grass roots Socialism and not this middle class we have representing the ordinary working class. Only a manatory voting system will give us a truer feeling of who the people want to rule them. Also the people themselves have to be rid of the apathy of “oh I dont bother to vote , their all alike”. As there might well be some truth in this, one should never ,never waste what little power they have ie The Vote.
We the people shocked the poloticians of all parties at the Referendum and we gave them the answer by a MAJORITY , so just imagine what we could do if all of us use our vote. And it could be done easily, millions , most people have mobile phones, PCs so why cant we vote using this technology, the government and commercial and banks use it on us every day so why not can the peoples voice be heard using it to tell the government whoever they are , work to give us what we want and not just poloticians in parliament and capitlism . We are not idiots.
Listen to the people and make our country independant much more.

This is the most impressive article on Brexit i have ever read, It sums up exactly what has been happening socially in the UK for decades and how it lead to the vore to leave, the working classes have been removed from their jobs and their communities and replaced by new people purely in order for the rich to get richer (mainly the middle classes)

And the fact that the poor decided to use their power through the ballot box is what that has so outraged the right on, EU loving bank of mum and dad brigade, they genuinely believed they ruled the world never mind this country, well times have changed and the working classes are fighting back and no amount of name calling is going to stop that.

I don’t think this is a particularly impressive article, although I imagine that a substantial body of research exists somewhere to justify its main contentions. The problem with it is it is in itself a piece of propaganda that does not attempt to set the “results” of the research in context with what we know about the other groups who voted in the referendum. One things we do know is it was the votes of the well-heeled less educated middle class people in the south east who overwhelmingly determined the outcome, not the working class. It is staggering that the researcher takes a pious view of what she heard from her interviewees and did not interrogate it. What is the real state of council house queues? Is it true that the areas of the country she talks about have had no work and no investment? Are these the only communities affected? Why do we take London East Enders and East Midlands people as the be-all of working class opinion on the subject? What are the views of the working class people who voted Remain, and how different are their problems from these people? Sadly, a lot of what these people said in their interviews is factually wrong or comes from a less than informed point of view. Why has the left lost its taste for political education? I am sorry, but this is not very impressive academic work. There is no control group here. There is no hypothesis and no attempt to subject the hypothesis to challenge.

Most people think that it was the lower classes that voted to leave, but you all know it is not true, As we all know the Germans were responsible for the two world wars we have had and their intention with the eu to them is to take over eventually all of Europe, this time from the back door, our young people have their eyes closed to reality all they think about is having fun they do not think when they are alder and find themselves governed by a German superpower, they would not remember as long as they have fun now, that is all they care about, this is why they want to remain, It is ok if you want a super power governing Europe, because as we fear this is what the Germans are after, I hope there are not too many errors a Spaniard iresiding in England for 50 years Adios amigos

This is dangerous material as ethnography on its own provides voices and unless it is situated within contextual conditions it can mean little. You do this but not in a critical realist mode or manner and thus your ethnography is interesting but but nevertheless a failure.
“The real reason for the Brexit vote was widespread and rising dissatisfaction with living standards as a result of rising inequalities.” Dorling, 2018
“More of the British working class did not vote at all, than voted to Leave. The majority of Leave voters were middle class.” Dorling, 2019

So your interviews have revealed specific reasons among working class voters for voting to leave and many of these were related to issues as Dorling suggests related to austerity and inequality but a specific vote to leave would blame the EU for such austerity or inequality. In my own and in Dorlings’s interpretation this was not the case. Many people who voted were demanding change and a vote to leave because of the lies about taking back control and English Empire persuaded some working class people to vote leave. Your post suggests a casual link between what you saw in your interviews and the outcome of the vote and I would suggest that you have made a fatal flaw in that leap from voices to causal link.

“Sayer (2000) has also sought to consider further another theme raised in the localities debate; the tension between analysis and narrative, or between law-seeking and contextual approaches. ” All of this is presented in your voices and contradicted in part by Dorling’s macro analysis which suggests a different analysis from the macro level. The reconciliation of such problems requires a critical realist approach and one I based my PhD
on “Locality, Identity and Transitions Towards and Integrated Study” University of Lancaster 2006. I suggest that instead of publishing lone voices you attempt to situate such voices within a space and a time that contextually relates to specific issues. That does not mean that you have completed the causality relation because of the openness related to such issues but you will be on your way. At the moment your voices are no more than working class voices such as my mother and father. Dr. Eamon O’Doherty

Here’s the problem… Voting for “Anything other than this” is fine, but only if you’re weilling to accept there are lots of ways things could get worse and only a very few (implausible) ways they can get better.

If the vote to Brexit results in massive hardship across the country, how can you **not** hold the people who voted for it responsible?

If you choose to roll the dice without even knowing if a plan exists, let alone whether it’s viable, I think you’re a fool…

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