No you're correct they rendered it at 640p, with two complete render pass (much like 3d), because they loved their HDR.
I'm not sure the trade off was worth it, although the HDR was outstanding in that game. Their entire frame-buffer was a ridiculous 1152x1280.

Those sound like some amazing specs. I think there is always much importance placed on making the console physically pretty small, which is obvious; most next gen consoles are around the same size as the last. The 7750 or any similar GPU is going to take up a lot of space (plus more space will be needed for cooling and PSU). A dedicated beastly GPU like that is going to churn up some heat, and the last thing Sony needs is their first wave to hit retail all crapping out and getting YLOD. So what I'm getting at is I'm a bit skeptical of it having a dedicated GPU, especially one that powerful because the console itself would need to be too big to be marketable as a sleek and sexy system. I would barely be able to fit my 5770 in a fat model right now with room to put a disc in for example. Add in all that ram and other hardware, it would be a tight fit in the Orbis.

I really like how they're focusing on the making the UI more of a pleasantry. I'm sure we've all had our fair share of frustrating moments where we tried to send a quick message reply in game and had to wait in limbo for the XMB to load while we die and auto-respawn 5 times. It will be nice to see the universal navigation and more responsiveness as the lack of that has been the one and only thing that always irked me about my PS3.

I wonder if they'll be throwing in a 7200RPM SATA II this time? Maybe even a SATAIII?? Would be a nice cost-efficient bonus for the consumers. Internet is getting so fast these days that we can almost download a game faster than installing it afterwards

In fact I only know 3 games that ran sub HD:
Resistance 3
Crysis 2
Every COD game cuz their engine is a PoS

So can we please stop pretending that consoles can't do 720p?

well, you are right. lol regardless those games that do run 720p don't use AA because of performance issues, but also with 720 you have more of a drop in Framerate currently with the PS3. They wouldn't be able to do 720p native at 60fps on the PS3 unless the graphics took a huge hit. As well as the bandwidth limitation causing good looking massive FPS games to happen, it wont because the bandwidth limitations set by sony are their because again the PS3 is bottlenecked for what Sony actually wanted to do. my argument on resolution only works with 1080p resolution.

however you can see a performance issue with the PS3 when it comes to 720 with no AA or MLAA which isn't nearly as good.

Well 720p and no AA isn't exactly true, since as your list says, Uncharted games always have the best AA on the platform while being native 720p. Most games like dishonored and Dead Space 3 are also doing it, but the AA solution is a post process one. The post process AA actually looks much better than no AA at all so I'll take what I can get.

On topic: Provided midrange PCs can do 1080p @ 60fps today, ps4 better do atleast 1080p 30fps from launch or its bad news.

that is what I'm wanting or at least a bit more performance than 30fps @ 1080p. i remember someone at sony saying that for their consoles they don't want a gradual increase like nintendo has been doing with the NES, SNES, N64, Gamecube, etc etc. It was an old article how they want a leap between consoles. So far their has been a leap between PS1, PS2, and PS3. I just want this big leap to be a big leap in performance at least.

that is what I'm wanting or at least a bit more performance than 30fps @ 1080p. i remember someone at sony saying that for their consoles they don't want a gradual increase like nintendo has been doing with the NES, SNES, N64, Gamecube, etc etc. It was an old article how they want a leap between consoles. So far their has been a leap between PS1, PS2, and PS3. I just want this big leap to be a big leap in performance at least.

Well its all relative to what the competion do.
At the end of the day, the only reason most of these games dont have AA, or have sub res, is due to trying to make sure they hit the framerates, and games looked identical as posisble to their 360 versions.
But its not secret that the GPU was weaker than the 360, but when emplyed properly the cell could help out with some post processing effects.

But yes the RSX was week in pure fillrate terms, but only compared to the comeptition. And it was only marignally so, to the point where shaving a few lines of resolution helped.

Again, it comes down to devs pushing these machines past what they really should, that wont change.

I agree current specs wouldn't cut it.
Cross fire two together though....?
Maybe hook it up to GDDR instead of DDR?

Nah. I think it's better to further utilize XDR and do away with DDR and GDDR. There is a major, MAJOR advantage with XDR that neither DDR nor GDDR have and it's the overall design. If you look into Rambus's site and make the comparisons, you'll see what I'm talking about. As for the APU design, I think it just has to go. Developers are used to Cell and Sony should move forward with it instead of going for a new platform, yet again. A Crossfire GPU setup sounds excellent and if they can have two or more chips in that configuration, I'm all for it.

Nah. I think it's better to further utilize XDR and do away with DDR and GDDR. There is a major, MAJOR advantage with XDR that neither DDR nor GDDR have and it's the overall design. If you look into Rambus's site and make the comparisons, you'll see what I'm talking about. As for the APU design, I think it just has to go. Developers are used to Cell and Sony should move forward with it instead of going for a new platform, yet again. A Crossfire GPU setup sounds excellent and if they can have two or more chips in that configuration, I'm all for it.

As much as everyone would like backwards compatibility, cell is really not viable for a console since studios which are not fortunate to have the unlimited resources like sony's first party, have a real hard time getting their games running well given the release time frame by publishers.

As much as everyone would like backwards compatibility, cell is really not viable for a console since studios which are not fortunate to have the unlimited resources like sony's first party, have a real hard time getting their games running well given the release time frame by publishers.

Sony took the right step with the vita and made it easier to develop.

I agree, I think it is smart of them to abandon the Cell processor and create a fresh new system that is much easier to develop for, that is why the PS1 did so well, it was super easy to develop for! I just hope they include a discreet GPU on top of the APU, if they do that any put the rumored amount of RAM in the system then the Orbis will be golden!

if that's true then Sony will never accomplish what they want. I don't think Sony will skimp on that. It's like I said in another topic, I firmly believe their next machine (PS4) will cater more towards MMORPG's and MMOFPS in terms of games and performance. Planetside 2 will release on the PS4 with no cutting of content or playercount which means they will increase the bandwidth limitations by a good amount as well as the console being more capable of supporting just a game, in fact it would be in sony's favor to act more like a PC in terms of bandwidth compared to a console.

expect Battlefield to be sporting 64+ players on each server with destruction.

I know this is IGN, I don't like them personally but this video has good commentary and footage.

if that's true then Sony will never accomplish what they want. I don't think Sony will skimp on that. It's like I said in another topic, I firmly believe their next machine (PS4) will cater more towards MMORPG's and MMOFPS in terms of games and performance. Planetside 2 will release on the PS4 with no cutting of content or playercount which means they will increase the bandwidth limitations by a good amount as well as the console being more capable of supporting just a game, in fact it would be in sony's favor to act more like a PC in terms of bandwidth compared to a console.

expect Battlefield to be sporting 64+ players on each server with destruction.

Yeah, Dust 514 is going to be on ps4 aswell according to their plans. F2P is the next big thing, and they need the hardware to drive such high player counts.

Last night I was wondering:
you know how Naughty Dog uses 10 PS3s hooked together for their cutscene renders, if the ps4 is 7-10x more powerful than the ps3, can we see atleast see 'The Last of Us' cutscence graphics as gameplay?

Star wars 1313 and watch dogs are launch titles for next gen and they already look phenomenal.

As much as everyone would like backwards compatibility, cell is really not viable for a console since studios which are not fortunate to have the unlimited resources like sony's first party, have a real hard time getting their games running well given the release time frame by publishers.

Sony took the right step with the vita and made it easier to develop.

I have to disagree. Sony did PlayStation gamers a great disservice by not supporting backwards compatibility. While "HD remakes" are all good and well, they are also indicative of the general games market as a whole. This means that we can probably expect a lot of games already made for PS3 to be "remade" sometime down the road. Not a bad strategy if you expect everyone to buy past titles over and over again. Personally, I find this tactic to be a rip off since full on remakes are never really done; just a new coat of paint so to speak.

The other aspect of using Cell - which is the point I really want to drive home instead - is continuity, which should be the main goal. Production costs have gone down immensely and most studios have more than a clue as to how to develop games using the chip. I think it would be in Sony's best interest to do so if for nothing else but familiarity of a design which seems to work just fine.

Last thing I'd like to point out is that with "ease of development" comes lower upper limits. There is a reason why the PS3 is still seeing improvements while the competition isn't to the same extent. A console that is initially difficult to program for in the beginning tends to deliver better results in the latter half of its life cycle which is one of Sony's goals. Longevity is a key factor here.

I have to disagree. Sony did PlayStation gamers a great disservice by not supporting backwards compatibility. While "HD remakes" are all good and well, they are also indicative of the general games market as a whole. This means that we can probably expect a lot of games already made for PS3 to be "remade" sometime down the road. Not a bad strategy if you expect everyone to buy past titles over and over again. Personally, I find this tactic to be a rip off since full on remakes are never really done; just a new coat of paint so to speak.

The other aspect of using Cell - which is the point I really want to drive home instead - is continuity, which should be the main goal. Production costs have gone down immensely and most studios have more than a clue as to how to develop games using the chip. I think it would be in Sony's best interest to do so if for nothing else but familiarity of a design which seems to work just fine.

Last thing I'd like to point out is that with "ease of development" comes lower upper limits. There is a reason why the PS3 is still seeing improvements while the competition isn't to the same extent. A console that is initially difficult to program for in the beginning tends to deliver better results in the latter half of its life cycle which is one of Sony's goals. Longevity is a key factor here.

a console that is difficult in the beginning to develop for is going to lose indie dev support which drives the gaming market as well. while Sony does have some indie dev support, Microsoft pretty much took control of that, as well as a console losing indie dev support, you will lose effort put into games from 3rd party devs.

It would be in Sony's best interest to do away with the cell and make their playstation infastructure more PC capable rather than IBM cell capable. Basing your next console on a Previous console is basically saying " we still need to rely on PS3 games to make money for us". which in business is not good. If I buy a PS4, it's certainly NOT because I can play PS3 games on it. not only that but now you will take more console development time off of what the console could have because of cost issues.

Also, lets not forget that a beefed up Cell wont be able to run PS3 games right away, they will have to add things to it. when you improve technology for a next console the inner workings of lets say a beefed up cell is going to be different compared to before.

no, if I buy a PS4 it's to play PS4 games, period. I really don't give to $#@!s about PS2 games while I have a PS3 and I know I'm not the only one nor am I a minority in this either.

I have to disagree. Sony did PlayStation gamers a great disservice by not supporting backwards compatibility. While "HD remakes" are all good and well, they are also indicative of the general games market as a whole. This means that we can probably expect a lot of games already made for PS3 to be "remade" sometime down the road. Not a bad strategy if you expect everyone to buy past titles over and over again. Personally, I find this tactic to be a rip off since full on remakes are never really done; just a new coat of paint so to speak.

The other aspect of using Cell - which is the point I really want to drive home instead - is continuity, which should be the main goal. Production costs have gone down immensely and most studios have more than a clue as to how to develop games using the chip. I think it would be in Sony's best interest to do so if for nothing else but familiarity of a design which seems to work just fine.

Last thing I'd like to point out is that with "ease of development" comes lower upper limits. There is a reason why the PS3 is still seeing improvements while the competition isn't to the same extent. A console that is initially difficult to program for in the beginning tends to deliver better results in the latter half of its life cycle which is one of Sony's goals. Longevity is a key factor here.

To an extent I can understand where you're coming from, however if we continue to think about compatibility, it is a major hindrance when it comes to innovation of new technologies. 8 years is a lot in computer chips industry and that amount of time validate the need for architectural overhaul.

I'm not sure nut I think I read somewhere that to make the cell more powerful is not efficient since you'll have to add more more cores (32 vs 8 in the ps3) which further complicates the code. Again, my microprocessors course isn't for another 2 years so I don't really know the technical details.

The cell is at its most poowerfull when it can be set and forgot. It's not really that good as a games console chip. Its certianly not very efficient. But I do think BC could be done on a multi core machine, especially if you can get it up round 8 cores.

Evolution Studios were said to be working on another full-fledged MotorStorm, if I'm not mistaken. I would add Polyphony Digital if it weren't for Yamauchi being such a perfectionist with the Gran Turismo series. He might announce Gran Turismo 6 at next year's E3 but don't expect it to come out anytime soon.

Sucker Punch, Guriella Games, Media Molecule's main team and Uncharted Team are all working on unannounced projects

I love this time in the generaiton, there is so much potential, and new games being announced and launched and talked about.
I would like to think some of thes titles arent sequals. Although I imagine GG are probably working on KZ 4.

E3 next year is going to be great, so many new titles will be announced.

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