Classic U.P. vs New U.P. vs U.P.P.E.R.

The 3 members of the U.P. (Unbeaten Path) family all combine a road riding position with clearance for mountain bike tires. Get out of town on asphalt, hit the gravel roads or switch to singletrack. Your position gets you there fast; the big tires make you unstoppable.

The frame is available in three versions:

-

The Classic U.P. with 3T Luteus II fork and post-mount disc brakes

-

The New U.P. with OPEN U-Turn fork and flat-mount disc brakes

-

The superlight U.P.P.E.R. with OPEN U-turn fork and flat-mount disc brakes

Every U.P. and U.P.P.E.R. shares the same shape, geometry, intended use and most importantly: tire clearance. But they differ in layup, weight, fork, disc brake mounts, thru-axles and colour.

Reviews & Awards

We’re honored that so many people believe in the direction the U.P. is taking. Most importantly of course our customers, but also the people behind the following awards and publications:

Eurobike Gold Award

“Apart from the frame’s attractive, eye-catching design, this cross bike’s open concept is value for money because it allows the attachment of different wheel sizes and types of tyre. Therefore, the U.P. is especially good at handling different sorts of terrain.”

Design & Innovation Gold Award

“In these exciting times, bikes are blurring the lines between the traditional definitions […] One perfect example is the new Open U.P., the ‘Unbeaten Path’– a bike defined as “GravelPlus,” but which offers so much more.

The design is beautifully crafted: a dropped chainstay allows for a super-compact 420 mm rear end, resulting in stiff and responsive power transfer, while ultra-thin seatstays add a degree of vertical compliance.

With relaxed and versatile geometry, the Open U.P. is more than a blending of genres, it’s a study in versatility offering endless possibilities, carving out a unique identity all its own. Never have the polar-opposite worlds of mountain biking and road biking been so connected.”

Road Bike Action Magazine

“With a frame design unlike any other that maximizes its versatility for both on- and off-road use, Gerard Vroomen engineered the best gravel bike to date.”

Cyclist Magazine UK

“I’ve ridden other gravel bikes before and have often felt they compromise too much in the search for versatility – being sometimes sluggish on tarmac yet not quite capable of handling more technical trails. With 2.1-inch tyres and a light and stiff build, the UP is very different.

A lot of brands so far have seen the possibilities for widening the scope of road riding, with slacker geometries, and the increased tyre clearance made possible by disc brakes. Yet Open has seemingly sprung light years ahead, fully realising the potential of modern tyre, wheel and frame technology. This is truly a rare and exceptional bike, and one that has literally broken new ground.”

Bicycling Magazine

“The Open U.P. will change where you ride. A long-term review of this gravel/’cross/road bike proves that it really is as versatile as it promises.

It feels natural on pavement and somehow still takes to the dirt like it was designed for it—a blend I’ve yet to experience with other bikes.”

Outside Magazine Road bike of the Year

“… adventure road and gravel bikes, a segment that continues to expand. We have half a dozen in the test this year, and they continue to become lighter and more refined over previous year’s iterations. The most promising of the fleet is the Open Unbeaten Path with geometry that makes it plenty comfortable on the pavement but optimized for very large tires. That makes this possibly the most versatile road bike out there as it can move seamlessly from group rides in a peloton to proper singletrack. There’s no consensus from testers yet about which wheel size they prefer.

The UP finally fulfills the promise of mixed-surface bikes, and we hope that other manufacturers will take note.”

Peloton Magazine

“What is truly amazing is the attention Open paid to making it work exceptionally well is making [the U.P.] work exceptionally well in every one of these configurations. The U.P. doesn’t just accept these different [wheel/tire] standards - each feel native.

Of course, their stated motto is ‘Working hard to stay small’. The quality and versatility of the Open U.P. might make that very difficult.”

Tour magazin

“The compact build and the weight of barely 8kg give the bike an agility you don’t expect with these big tires.

This bike exceeded my already high expectations.

An incredible bike. Despite the mountain bike tires, you feel like you’re riding a road bike.

Innovative frame concept, smart details, light. With this versatility, the U.P. will likely offer an important push to the development of all gravel bikes.”

GearJunkie

“I immediately noticed how fast the bike was off the line. As expected, the carbon was stiff and responsive, applying force directly from pedal to pavement. The bike rocketed around town and to the trailhead much more aggressively than a mountain bike.

Once on the gravel, the bike flowed into its comfort zone. With less aggressive geometry than a true cyclocross bike, it churned through the miles in comfort and inspired 'one more detour before we go home' type riding.”

For all other U.P. reviews and tests, please refer to the Reviews section at the bottom of this page.

Tire clearance

The U.P. fits mountain bike tires up to 2.1” wide. But you can also fit a 40mm cross tire, or a 28mm road tire, or anything else in-between (exact tire sizes depend on manufacturing tolerances and rim width, so this is a guideline. Always make sure you have 6mm clearance between tire and frame).

How do we fit such a wide range of tires without affecting the handling? Let's start with the numbers; below is the outside radius for various wheel+tire combos:

Radius

Rim

Tire

341mm

700c/29er

28mm road

344mm

700c/29er

32mm cross

350mm

700c/29er

40mm cross

342mm

650b/27.5"

2.1" mtb

365mm

700c/29er

2.1" mtb

As you can see, the top-4 wheel+tire combos (700c cross/road tires and 650b mountain bike tire) are very close in radius, the bottom one (the 29er mountain bike tire) is way off.

So you’ll hardly notice a difference in geometry swapping 700c cross/road and 650b mountain bike tires on the U.P., while 29er tires would make a total mess of the handling.

There is a second reason we designed for 650b and not 29er tires. They would require very long chainstays, while the U.P. now sports a very short 420mm rear end. Most gravel and cross bikes have longer chainstays than that yet they can't fit anywhere near the same size of tire.

Crank clearance

Behind the bottom bracket, the chainrings, frame and tire all fight for space. And with the need to fit big mountain bike tires and narrow Q-factor cross/road cranks & chainrings, the U.P. presents the toughest possible packaging problem.

Dropping the right chainstay moves it out of this crowded area, allowing it to be wider and therefore stiffer (a huge effect; with the same amount of material, twice the width will give you eight times the stiffness!).

TRCinTRS™ technology

It’s not about high- or low-modulus, it’s about the right carbon in the right spot. And because the bike industry loves techie-sounding abbreviations, we’ll humor them and call it TRCinTRS™.

Fact: stiffer carbon is more brittle. Strategically placed ultra-high-modulus carbon is a good idea. Making the whole headtube out of it when you have big impact loads is not!

The best lay-up is not 100% of one modulus; it’s a blend. We use the highest modulus (stiffest) carbon of any bike manufacturer where we can, and tougher grades of carbon where we must. That’s how our frames are both light and durable.

For the U.P. and the U.P.P.E.R., we use different lay-ups, meaning the shapes of the plies and the ratio between the different materials is different for the two models, with the U.P.P.E.R. using an extremely complex lay-up.

Wire-stays

The rear triangle has to provide lateral stiffness for an efficient drive train, but vertical compliance for better comfort. The U.P. features chainstays and seatstays that are extremely thin vertically to provide that compliance, while their lateral width and layup ensure rock-solid propulsion. Truly the best of both worlds.

Flat-out downtube

The downtube is the key for stiffness, connecting the steering center of your frame with the drivetrain. The flat-out downtube’s characteristically flat outside faces allow us to strategically place strips of ultra-high modulus carbon far away from the center plane. The stiffest carbon exactly where it matters, guaranteed!

Zero-setback seattube

With a minimalist 27.2mm diameter we maximize the flex in our seatpost & seattube. This is especially a big plus on rough terrain. The seattube angle is designed around the use of a straight, zero-setback seatpost rather than a regular seatpost with setback (we’ve never understood those). Zero-setback posts are lighter, saving you another 10-30 grams (every little bit helps and you can then put that saved weight into a 500g saddle like the Brooks!).

Fully-internal cables/hoses

With our proven MultiStop design, you can customize the frame for 2x10/11, 1x10/11 and Di2 shifting. Just pick the right insert. In case you run a single chainring, you can also remove the front derailleur hanger to further clean up the frame.

ThruThread dropouts

Most thru-axle frames are heavier than quick-release frames. Extra carbon for the dropouts, heavy hangers, and the axle itself. But they are stiffer, So what do you want most? The answer for most people is “both”, and so we introduce the first frames that combine a thru-axle with a lower weight. How?

The ThruThread design uses the same threads that hold the thru-axle to lock the derailleur hanger into the frame. Simple, light, effective.

We didn’t just redesign the dropout, the entire seatstay and chainstay design is optimized with the added stiffness of the thru-axle in mind. For the thru-axle itself, we recommend the stiffest design available, the Syntace X-12, but you are free to use a different 12mm thru-axle if you want.

Disc brake mounts

One of the key differences between the Classic U.P. on the one hand and the new U.P. and U.P.P.E.R. on the other is the disc mount standard. The Classic U.P. uses post-mount, the other two are designed for flat-mount. We don't like how the bike industry keeps “inventing” new standards, so we always investigate if they are an improvement before we use them.

Post-mount brake calipers work very well, and the main argument for flat-mount is that it looks better (sigh) while a significant drawback is that the front brake always requires an adapter for mounting, adding weight and reducing braking efficiency.

So why did we decide to offer the U.P.P.E.R. with flatmounts? Three reasons:

1.

Shimano has decided to make the new DuraAce group only available for flat-mount. So to use their top group, you need a flat-mount frame or an adapter to fit post-mount brakes on a flat-mount frame.

2.

SRAM does offer all its brakes in flat-mount and post-mount versions, but the flat-mount calipers are lighter.

3.

We came up with the U-turn, a new fork that accepts flat-mount calipers without the need for that silly adapter. So that disadvantage is eliminated for OPEN.

In conclusion, to use the lightest possible brakes from both Shimano and SRAM, you need their flat-mount brakes. And thanks to the U-turn fork, you can make those set-ups even lighter by removing the normally required adapter. A win-win.

U-turn

For the U.P.P.E.R., we designed a new fork that accepts flat-mount calipers without the need for an adapter. So you can get your Shimano or SRAM flat-mount caliper, remove the standard adapter it comes with, and bolt it directly onto our fork.

This saves weight and increases the stiffness of the braking system.

We do this by making the fork dedicated for 160 mm brake rotors (140 mm is a bad idea anyway on this type of bike) and using the same through-bolt design that is normally reserved for the rear.

Some may not like the exposed bolt heads on the front of the fork leg instead of them being hidden, but we actually like it. It’s a technically superior design, so this engineering choice should be clearly visible.

But the U-turn fork doesn't just save you weight on the flat-mount brake, it is also extremely light itself. At 375 grams, it is by far the lightest fork that fits GravelPlus tires. And to save even more weight, it is comes with an extremely light 12mm Carbon-Ti custom axle

So the U.P.P.E.R. ships standard with the U-turn. Since the U.P. is a post-mount frame, it ships with a post-mount fork, the 3T Luteus II.

Toptube bag mount

For handy storage of your phone, camera, some tools or food, you can use the toptube bag mounts. It fits the standard toptube bags from for example Dark Speed Works and XLab as well as dedicated ruggedized bags from for example Revelate Designs.

SafePost™ Pilot hole

Seatposts usually indicate a minimum insertion dimension. That keeps the seatPOST safe, but it’s also important that the seatTUBE is supported properly. The minimum insertion for that is indicated by the SafePost Pilot hole.

Bottom bracket

The U.P. uses the 386 EVO bottom bracket standard. The wide (86mm) BB shell is perfect to attach the dropped drive-side chainstay to. Furthermore, it fits most of the cranks on the market, from Shimano and SRAM but also smaller brands like THM and Rotor. 386 EVO even allows for the installation of many mountain bike cranks. Not all versions of each crank fit though, so be sure to check with your local OPEN retailer if you have questions.

Geometry

Clearance for cross, road and mountain bike tires, a cross/road position and compatibility with cross/road & mountain bike drivetrains make the U.P. geometry the most complicated we’ve ever worked on. But we’re ecstatic about the result.

Keep in mind that the seattube is designed to be offset, so that your seatpost doesn't have to be. This saves a bit of weight. It also means that the toptube length appears a bit longer than the frame really is, yet another reason why toptube length is a bad measurement to rely on. Best to use stack and reach.

size

riderheight¹

standover²

forkaxle-crown

forkoffset

headtubeangle

seattubeangle

seattubelength

toptubelength

headtubelength

BBdrop

stack

reach

frontcenter

rearcenter

wheelbase

S

5’2" - 5’8"

743

395

50

69.5°

72.5°

520

528

105

70

522

365

592

420

1002

M

5’7" - 5’11"

767

395

50

71.0°

72.5°

540

549

130

70

551

376

598

420

1008

L

5’10" - 6’3"

791

395

50

72.5°

72.5°

560

570

155

70

580

387

604

420

1014

XL

6’2" - 6’7"

815

395

50

72.5°

72.5°

580

591

180

70

609

398

622

420

1032

¹

These suggested rider heights are approximations, there is no substitute for a complete fit analysis including several body dimensions or the measurements of the current set-up of your gravel/cross/road bike.

²

Standover height is measured to the top of the toptube directly above the bottom bracket and depends slightly on the exact tire size used.

As you can see, the chainstays are quite short for a cross/gravel bike, despite the ability to fit the massive 54mm tires in. That's one of the benefits of the dropped drive-side chainstay.

If you have any questions about the geometry or need sizing advice, you can send Gerard a message using the Contact form on the left.

Comments & Questions

Just got mine last week after an initial fitting and then another at delivery time , from The Eleven. A very professional experience at the store which nailed my decision to purchase my Open. I've been road biking for pleasure and fitness doing 80-100 km rides regularly for the past 40 years and this bike is such a pleasure to ride. Very responsive and beautifully finished , the Di2 system is amazing ! I can only assume as I become more accustomed to the Open UP I will enjoy the bike even more.

Post #1 of 431. Posted by Robert Kennedy on 02-May-2016 22:06:58 GMT [0<--631]

As we enter into rainy & winter seasons for many of us, have you tried various clip on fenders/mudguards to see what works (and just as importantly what doesn't work) out of the box without MacGyvering them given the relatively unique fork on the Open UP so that lots of your early adopters don't each have to do a bunch of trial and error? I'm interested in ones that will work with 700 tires with 35-40mm widths.

Well to be honest, I'm more a good shoe cover + ass saver kind of guy. One thing I can tell you though, in the rear no full fender will work with a TRUE 40mm tire, there won't be space between tire and seat tube. With a "40mm" tire that is really smaller (that includes most "40mm" tires), you may have space.

I ride a road bike with a lower bottom bracket, longer chain stays, fork rake, etc. The wheelbase is 101 cm. I used to ride a Cervelo Soloist and loved it in certain conditions. But the steering was too quick for me, and I was not confident on high speed descents. I like the longer wheel base of endurance geometries. I understand most cross bikes have a higher bottom bracket. The U.P. has a lower BB, but the chain stays are shorter. I'm curious about the ride characteristics and have not seen much commentary related to that. Thanks for your help.

Hi Guy, rather than hearing from me, you'll see quite a few comments on the geometry and the handling in the reviews section on this page. I know some people are skeptical about magazine reviews and how they may be influenced by advertising (in general I don't find that to be the case but it does happen), but remember that we do not do ANY advertising, so we didn't "buy" any of those reviews. And most are pretty positive (actually extremely positive) about the handling. If you read the latest reviews (listed on the top), those are the most in-depth as they are several long-term reviews. And if you read German, I would really suggest the TOUR review.

Hi Gerard/Andy,I see quite some pictures of an UP frameset with the new Lauf Grit suspension fork. Will this fork work with the UP regarding geometry, or asked in a different way will it change the riding behavior in a negative manner? Are there plans to have a complete set with the Lauf fork instead of the standard 3T Luteus? And if so, will it be already in the orange/brown custom color? I know it will take a few months before Lauf will be able to deliver the forks, but I am planning on building my UP in Q3 of this year.

Hi Michiel, yes, you can fit the Lauf Grit on the UP no problem. Andy is just building up a new bike with it, so expect some more feedback on it soon. It's unlikely that a frameset including the Grit would be offered in a color-matched way, the logistics of that are just not fun :-). but Lauf does seem to make the black fork with orange accents that is a good match for the UP.

Hi there, I am not sure I understand the question. The 12mm Syntax X-12 rear thru-axle is included, so any 142x12mm thru-axle compatible wheel you have, you pop it in there and then put the X-12 through. Although there are different 12 mm axle standards, this does not matter for the wheel. All 142x12mm wheels are compatible. The fact that there are different 12 mm axles only affects how they connect with the frame, so that's not a worry for the wheel.

Lots of options really. Which wheels were you looking at and we can help you figure out how to get them thru-axle specific or suggest a close alternative. Sometimes you have to look more at the MTB options of brands (ENVE for example), but also in road/cross/gravel there are options. I'm a bit partial to 3T and HED for obvious reasons, and the entire road wheel disc brake line from 3T is compatible with 15mm axles. So all Discus and Discus Plus wheels, alloy and carbon, and they are compatible right out of the box (end caps for 12mm and 15mm are included). The disc brake Ardennes from HED are also 15mm compatible, you just have to order the correct end caps. And there are many more.

That's a good question. We have several stores that carry OPEN and the U.P. in Texas, but you'd have to call them to see what exactly they have in stock. Given the demand for the U.P. the stock levels fluctuate quickly and are usually quite low, so even if we know we shipped a store a Medium a few days ago, they may not have it anymore. So best to call and make sure they set it aside until you arrive.

Hej, I'm interested in an Open U.P. (as many here) but dealers are pretty rare yet. How can I find out the right size for the frame set. Don't want to spend the money into the wrong size. With 180cm and an inside leg of 86cm I'd chose an L (?) Appreciate your advice. Cheers ToM

Hi Jan, the RoadLink is a great tool and as far as I have seen it works on our derailleur hanger. Of course it's not "Shimano recommended" so I can't say if there is any situation in which it won't work, but I've only heard positive feedback on it.

Since the frame uses a braze-on style front derailleur, what is the MINIMUM outer chainring size, assuming typical road front derailleurs? There are a growing number of "gravel"-targeted cranksets available with 46/30, 48/32, and even 44/28 ring combinations, that would one might want to combine with the UP.

Do you have any recommendations on the "optimal" double ring configuration that would allow us to both keep up with (I really mean outrace ;P) our road-loving buddies while also being able to easily tackle the "shortcut" through the woods? I know it's generally a very personal thing, but I'd be interested to know what your thoughts are specifically on double ring setups for the U.P. A 46/30 with 11x32? 50/34 with 11x28?

what about using a Rotor Rex1 with a 42/26 combination? This would be a great combination for the long, steep ascents here in the Julian Alps and I could reuse my SRM crankset with 120/80mm BCD. Is there a difference between the minimum outer chainring size between the U.P. and the UPPER?

Post #401 of 431. Posted by David on 22-Aug-2017 16:43:07 GMT [757<--6993]

It can fit, but the disadvantage is that the Q factor of mountain bike cranks is much bigger, so it sort of negates the point of the UP; to ride with a good road position and fit and be fast, and then let the tires take care of the terrain.

KCNC, White Industries and for 2017 FSA. I use a KCNC 46/30 crankset on my road bike in combination with a campa record groupset. It works very good. I use this combination for climing in alps. I hope this helps.

It really depends. Right now most bags that use the toptube bolts are originally designed for triathlon, so they are on the small side. Great for tools, phone, some food, etc. Then if you want bigger, you can go with something like the Apidura or Revelate or similar, and those carry more but the set-up on the frame is not as clean as it is when using the bolts obviously. I do expect bigger bags that use the bolts to appear in the next few months.

Hi, I've been offered a used Open up with the following spec:2016 Open cycles U.P gravel plus bike size XL. SRAM force 1 X 11 hydro groupset with Rotor 3D chainset and Q ring 44T with 11/32 cassette.Zipp service course 30 wheel set with matching service course seat post, stem and SL70 bars.Selle Italia Ti railed saddle What would be the standard price to pay for this set-up?Greetings Elie

I'm looking for a bike to replace my aging cannodale silk tour 700. Finally looks like some geormetries are emerging that may compete with its all terrain capability!Is there anywhere I could test ride a bike in Melbourne Australia. The UP is definitely on my shortlist!

Looks like a great bike to downsize the road/cross/xc/ etc clutter. I don't seem to see any photos of the bike with road tires, just wondering how it looks (I know sounds shallow; but if i can get excited about it as a road bike between off road rides, it will be the ticket). Can you point me at any?

Also, any plans for an edition with stealth fender attachment points? I live in a rainy place, and all that great clearance... Think something like the Norco Theshold points.

Hi there, we don't have any photos of the bike with road tires but if you go the the SHOWCASE section in the top menu, you will find plenty of U.P.s as spec'd by our customers including some with road tires.

Hi Gerard/Andy, I currently ride a Cervelo R5 56cm. Would like to pick get one of your U.P. rides. I think it will be my new daily ride. I may need to purchase via the web, so I am not sure what size I would need. Assuming a medium, but don't want to chance it, so asking the question. Thanks in advance for your help.

Hi Andreas, it all depends on the spacers you are going to use. The easiest is to get a dedicated BB set-up for Shimano cranks on BB386EVO, then you automatically have the right bearings AND spacers. Now, most of those bearings are the same on BB30 bottom brackets, but the cups are usually shorter (no big issue but not as nice) and you then need to figure out the shimming yourself (not ideal).

For the U.P. it's 100x15mm. There isn't any BOOST for road/cross. That's on the mountainbike side, so for the ONE+ you could find BOOST forks that are 110x15. But to make it confusing, you can also fit a 100x15 fork on your ONE+ and plenty of 100x15 forks also fit 3" plus tires so there isn't that much reason to go to the 110mm width (in fact, even in the rear we went with Boost more for what it allows us to do with the crank than what it does with the hub).

Unless, to make it even more confusing, you're talking about the Lauf fork. That fork REALLY benefits from the 110mm width because of its design, so it gives you a 21% boost in lateral stiffness when going to the BOOST version. Just because of the geometric advantage. Hope that's clear.

The Grit only comes in 100mm, the Trail in 100 and 110 and it really benefits from the 110mm. I didn't say it fits in the UP, only that most front forks don't benefit that much from Boost but the Lauf does. Of course Boost is not really a topic for gravel/multi-surface bikes anyway, but the original question was about 100 vs. 110mm so hence the answer.

Geometry (longer tubes, especially the seat tube) and load cases. This is often counter-intuitive to people, but a mountain bike has a lot of its peak impacts dulled by the tire size. An U.P. often has to withstand impacts while being run with a relatively small tire so it is not nearly as easy to make it as light. And then the orange paint is a little heavier than black too. Of course, the U.P. is also less expensive, especially when you take into account that it includes a fork and the ONE+ does not.

The U.P. doesn't have a 2-bolt frame mounted derailleur, the two bolts you see are to mount the derailleur mount, which is a standard road derailleur mount with a vertical slot. So it fits any road derailleur, SRAM, Shimano or Campy, but not an MTB front derailleur.

I'm in a mountainous area, so even the gravel roads can be hours of uphill, sometimes very steep. Thus I tend to lower gear ratios similar to MTB 29er. Cassette is 11-36, and do not wish to go 1x. Thanks!

Hi Pete, as you say, the derailleur and chain length has an effect, so it is impossible to answer that question exactly. But the 24t is so far off that it definitely won't work. The frame is designed for road cranks, where 34t is the smallest. Those always work (unless somebody sets up their bike completely wrong of course, but let's not assume that). Going a bit smaller is also possible, but I wouldn't be able to say where the exact limit is. Keep in mind that if you change the cassette to have a 42t as smallest cog, that 24x36 is the same as 28x42 so that's already a lot closer to the intended territory of chainring. If that works or not, I am really not sure.

Hi Gerard,I'm very interested in the U.P., but not sure, if size "S" is good for me, or too large. Actually I drive a womens Specialized Amira with top tube length 491, stack 504 and reach 365.Thank you for your adviceCarola

Hi Carola, thanks for the note, definitely the S will work well. A bit taller in the front but for a combined on-off-road position that is preferable for most people. And you probably don't ride in the lowest position possible now anyway, so with a taller front end you simply have fewer spacers.

In our photos, we show it will full allen bolts to make it clear they're there, but if you finish them with flat bolts it looks fine. We're not considering offering the frame without, that would not help our simplicity.

What a great innovative geometry! Thanks for the information on this page - very insightful and definitely has me reconsidering my next bike. Out of curiosity, what handlebar is that featured on the U.P pictured here?

Hi, I'm planning a u.p. build, which is kinda of bugging me at the moment as I wanted to mix shimano road and mtb components but because of the freehub body differences I don't think I can do what I want. Seems only SRAM offer a good solution.

Anyway seems best fit will x1 my question is, if I use a rotor 3D+ chainset with probably a 42 tooth ring the spec says flat rings are best, does this still apply to this chainset ? as I wanted to use a narrow wide ring.

Yes, a flat narrow-wide ring is best. "Flat" as opposed to "offset", so it doesn't relate to the narrow-wide. It just means that it puts the single ring where normally the outer ring would go, not offset to be on top of the center of the spider tabs. Hope that makes sense.

Hi, I'm building up my U.P. and need some help on choosing the appropriate crank and ring for a 1x build. Who makes the recommended flat narrow-wide ring if I'm not supposed to use the SRAM Force 1x ring? Also, I have a SRAM Red 22 GXP crank and want to know if I can convert it to 1x use by simply changing the double chainring to a single 38T made for 1x. Also considering the Easton EC90SL 38T crankset. I presume that would work? Thanks

For example Wolf Tooth components makes a ring that is flat and uses narrow-wide teeth. And yes, you can use the Red 22 crank, just mount the single flat ring on the OUTSIDE chainring position. And you'll need either shorter chainring bolts or washers to take up the slack from the missing inner ring.

That's a bit beside the point. It's with the specific chainline that the SRAM crank has that a flat ring works better. But the EC90SL will have a different chainline to begin with, so who knows what ring works best. You want to get close to a 47mm chainline, so that's the distance from the center plane of the frame to the center plane of the ring.

So is the stock SRAM 1X ring flat? Or are you saying that it should ideally be replaced by the Wolf ring? This is all new to me so please forgive the rudimentary question. I was going to buy the complete EC90SL with the 38T ring. Do you know if that works with the UP?

The stock SRAM ring is offset. So they put it on the “outer” position, and then the offset puts the teeth roughly in-between where normally the inner and outer ring are. This seems logical, that’s the chainline, but in going with thru axles, the position of the cassette in the rear has changed. The cassette has moved outward, so we want to move the whole chain outward and that makes this offset counterproductive.

But to be clear, this is all relative, the bike works fine with offset rings and flat rings, in fact one could argue there isn’t one ideal chainline dimension, that it depends on the rider and your style and average gear, etc. So any ring and offset will work, don’t worry about that. if you want to get the final % right, then this matters.

The EC90SL has a 45mm chainline, so a bit in-between 43.5 and 47mm. So it will work fine with the stock chainring on the UP.

Hi, I installed my Dura Ace DI2 shifters this weekend. I did not care about the cable guide in the bottom bracket area much. Now, that everything is fixed, I realized, that the cable guide is more or less loose: Is there any way to fix it without deinstalling the cranks once more?thanks, Andreas

You can put an O-ring around the inside of the cable guide to fit it snuggly when you use Di2. You might be able to press it in from the outside depending on the O-ring, but definitely easier to pop it over from the inside.

That's a tricky question, it really depends on the final decisions of the component makers. Some say they might make some brakes only in flat mount, we already know some only come in post mount (XTR for example, which I have installed on my UP), so we just need to see where it goes. However, for 90% of the builds it won't really make a difference as most brakes come in both versions.

Love the concept and bike design - I am however disappointed in your size range, being 6' 6" - I currently ride a cross bike with a 614 mm ETT and ~430 mm of reach and run a 130 mm stem and a setback seatpost (which you believe is unnecessary) so I have a hard time believing that I will fit on a XL in your size range with ~30 mm less TT and reach and no setback.

If your current frame has a 430mm reach, then the U.P. won't fit. In combination with a 130mm stem that would be an enormous cockpit length and you'd be the first 6'6 rider who wouldn't fit, but I'll take your word for it. BTW, it's not that we believe setback seat posts are unnecessary, they are usually unnecessary with our frame design. They are usually required on most other frame designs (and sometimes on ours).

I agree, I would like to see one size larger than you currently offer and I am only just shy of 6'5". Your XL is smaller in both stack and reach than my 61cm S-brand Tarmac I want to replace, which I barely fit with 180mm cranks, a ton of exposed 400mm post, and a 120mm stem sitting on 25mm of spacers. It fits well, but just barely.

If you offered one size up I'm a customer. You could do it only for the U.P. especially if it is stronger at it's slightly heavier weight.

Hi EB, thanks for the input and consideration, although I'd see it slightly differently. On the XL, a 130mm stem is not out of place (I ride a 130mm stem on the size L, I'm 6'3). And then the reach is the same as on your Tarmac. I know that big bike companies don't spec longer stems (except of course almost every pro they sponsor rides with a 130 or 140 stem) but with the right geometry it makes sense. And the stack of the Tarmac is 3mm taller than the UP in XL, a difference that is negligible (and the longer stem also increases the handlebar stack so that difference completely disappears.

If we'd make an XXL (which I don't think we'll ever do), it still wouldn't help you. Because I would still maintain you're perfectly fit for the XL, and the XXL would be for people who are 6'7.

Hmmm, I'm 6"3 but more legs than torso and at 59 feel most comfortable with only 6-8 cm drop to handlebars from an 84.25 cm seat height (measured from ctr of bb to top of saddle on a diagonal line). Hard to see how I get to the right bar height on an XL without a stackload of spacers and a very upright stem, but maybe my reckoning is thrown off by something. But for this concern, your design looks amazing.

Hi Greg, just send me a note via the link on the right about what you currently ride on gravel,cross or road (bike brand/model/model year/size and I will take a look for you. If it works, great, if not, I'll tell you too.

Just picked mine up pre-built with a Sram Force Cx-1 32-11 cassette (Q-rings single chain ring on front). Finding it too much for the steep climbs where I live. What is biggest ring cassette that could be fitted to the U.P? I am willing to change rear mech or anything else to get the widest gear range/biggest climbing ring possible...Thanks!

The Q-ring is the single ring QX1 44t model 110 BCD. Rotor 3Df cranks. Don't know what the BB is yet. Combined with the 32-11 cassette it's murder climbing the mountains in my area! Perhaps a 48/32t double ring crankset combined with a 36-11 cassette at the back might be an ideal solution? Does anyone know where to source a good quality 48/32t crankset to fit the BB386 EVO? Or if not, maybe a 46/30t?

Sorry folks, don't understand why and can't seem to edit my previous posts, but for some reason this site is adding this: , to the end of the correct URL copied above.! The correct URL ends with :-bb386evo/

Thanks Robin! Yes, I've been on sram's site for a day it seems! Here's a question for you/Gerard/anyone else: can the SRAM mtb rear derailleurs be fitted to the U.P. to run the newest 12 speed SRAM cassettes? If not, is there anything to stop you running the SRAM XG-1199 X-DOME 11 speed Cassette along with the XD Driver Body and SRAM Force 1 Long Cage Rear Derailleur for a tidy 10-42t 11 speed setup?

Hi Marshall, sorry for the delay, I was traveling for our fully project. There are a few things you can do:1) Change your 44t ring to a 34t ring. That's what I have on my bike and obviously that makes a big difference, it reduces your gearing by 23%. Of course your small gear also reduces a bit but at that end, you may not miss it that much (I don't). You CANNOT change to a 33t ring as some suggested, since it's a single ring you need narrow-wide teeth to keep the chain on (or an ugly chain guide but I wouldn't do that) and narrow-wide per definition only comes in even tooth numbers (otherwise you'd have two narrows or two wides at some point).2) Change the cassette to 11-36 (requires a long-cage Force 1 derailleur which you may or may not have already?).3) Change the cassette body on your wheels to an xD driver (most hubs can do this easily) and then you can mount a SRAM 10-42 cassette (also requires the long cage derailleur). With that xD driver, you can even fit a 9-44 cassette from e13, Benefit of these cassettes is not only the bigger small gear, but also the smaller small gear so it would give you more top-end when running the 34t front ring (9-18% bigger gear).

Hi Gerard, many thanks for your very comprehensive reply (it was worth waiting for!).Well this all sounds most promising, especially the xd driver option married to the e13 9-44 cassette plus the small ring at the front. This is a combination I wasn't even aware of, and it absolutely enhances the range of gearing available at each limit as you say, which was exactly my concern. So the only thing I can think I am still unsure of now is will the long cage Force 1 derailleur work with the extended range 44 cog and 9 cog at each limit? Thanks again so much for your time and help :)

Hey Gerard, just wanted to check back in to update on my U.P. After following your advice, I fitted the new e13 9-44 cassette plus the new long cage Force 1 and XD driver for the Zipp wheel/hub. Boom! Thanks to you I'm now running a Beast of a bike! So glad I followed this route and stayed with the single 44t Q-ring at the front. So clean and simple - exactly the point of this bike for me. And the range of gearing is simply awesome. All I can imagine ever needing. Thank you so much!

Yes, not meant as a criticism, I wasn't sure what you meant but I just wanted to make sure people didn't take away the wrong idea from that. For sure you can fit a 33t as an inner ring on a double setup.

The rethought geometry is interesting. Regarding seat tube angle, for those of us who already use zero-offset posts for proper fore/aft saddle position relative to the BB, I am wondering if there will be fit issues. For example, my road bike (size 54) has conventional 73.5 deg seat tube angle and my saddle is positioned fairly far forward with zero-offset post. [I had a professional bike fitting.] A 72.5 degree seat tube would be about 10mm further back, I believe.

Post #134 of 431. Posted by David on 01-Oct-2016 20:14:19 GMT [0<--1011]

It's rarely an issue but of course, in the case people are already on the extreme, it would be. But of course the same is true on the other end, this bike does allow for an offset post so if somebody sits really far back, this accommodates that. But to be honest, both of those situations are very, very rare, saddle position doesn't vary that much in comparison to the adjustment that exists on most rails. Also, it depends a lot on the seatpost design. It's actually not about the offset that people normally measure (the center of the clamp), that's irrelevant. What matters is where the rear of the clamp is, so a narrow clamp gives you a lot of space to move forward on the rails.

Just recently purchased a medium Open U.P. One reason I picked this bike is its versatility and ability to handle 40MM tires. However, when I picked it up from the LBS, they put 36MM tires on it saying the 40MM tires were too close to the seat stay and they were concerned with rubbing on seat stay. From pictures on the website it looks like 40MM will fit, albeit close to the seat stay. Any problems putting 40MM tires on a medium frame?

Post #139 of 431. Posted by james on 02-Oct-2016 16:12:33 GMT [0<--1016]

Well, most tires aren't the size they say on the label, and rim width also has an effect, so it's hard to make general statements, but I've never seen a 40mm tire that gets anywhere near to the seat stays. I mean, you can see it on your own bike, the gape between the 36 mm tire and the seat stays will be WAY more than the 2mm that a 40 mm tire would add.

Gerard's response on this seems a bit deceptive and inaccurate to me. The specs don't specifically state which headset and I knew I'd seen reference to stainless version somewhere. The headset included on a new (September 2017) Upper does have a Cane Creek 110 top assembly with stainless bearing, but the bottom bearing....the really critical one...is a 40 series bearing and not 110 stainless. Since frame/fork is 45 x 45 the Cane Creek stainless 52 110 bearing (36 x 45) doesn't work, so I understand why the 40 series is included. But, it's NOT stainless and being on the bottom is the place where stainless really helps, especially on this type bike (water expected). Wish Open was a bit more "open" and honest in how this is portrayed.

Deceptive? Because my answer about the UP headset from a year ago doesn't match what you get today on your UPPER, a model that didn't even EXIST when I wrote my response? The UPPER has a different frame, a different fork (with an integrated fork race), etc, so of course the response I gave about the UP headset does not apply to the UPPER headset. And yet you call me deceptive and dishonest?

By the way, for any spec question it makes more sense to check the spec list or ask the question than to rely on a year-old comment. The UP headset is also not identical to the one from a year ago (nor to the UPPER headset).

Certainly agree! And that´s not merely an esthetic issue: The front brake cable, and even more the uppermost fixation ring, decrease the tire clearance; thereby significantly limiting the maximum possible width of the front tire.One of very few imperfections on this excellent bike.

I recently got an orange U.P. and it's great. Unfortunately, on two of the first rides I took it on, the chain dropped off the chainring when changing up and the chain ended up crunching the underside of the bottom bracket. It's only superficial--the orange coat is scored or flaked off, but it looks bad.

I'd like to touch up the damaged areas with the matching orange colour. Do you sell anything for that, or can you recommend where I could get something?

Hi Roger, the best matching can usually be found with touch up paint for car bodies. They have a lot of choice and you can match visually. Since every batch of orange for the frames can slightly differ and the paint also changes a bit over time, that's the best way to closely match. Hope that helps, Gerard.

Is it possible to buy the U.P. frameset unpainted? (I love the bike but orange and brown just aren't working for me) - would love to have it custom painted in a colour of my choice and having a 'bare' frame makes that process a bit cheaper.

Looks like most Open UPs are built with 140mm brake rotors. Is there sufficient space in the frame to install an adapter on the brakes to use 160mm rotors? If so, it looks like both the front and rear brake mounts are post mount so a "Disc Brake Adapter Post to Post +20mm" would be required?

Has anyone put a dropper post on this? I was thinking of the KS LEV-272 and wondered if there is provision for cable routing. Some of the fire roads out here in Southern California are pretty steep and loose, and this would make things less "interesting".

I have never set up sram 1x but I have set up sram 2x plenty of times. i.e. chain off, cable not attached, set the limits, put on chain attach cable, voila it works perfect very rarely have to adjust the cable tension.

sarm 1x is a bit different ie. chain on and cable attached then adjust, I have followed the sram instructions also watched https://www.you...LLI7c

I have to add quite a bit of cable tension to get the derailleur to directly line up under the 42t sprocket is this normal?

I have almost got it perfect but sometimes moving to the larger (more teeth) sprockets the derailleur is not quite far enough over, if I shift to the next largest and back down it's then ok. I have tried adding a bit more tension but the same thing happens again. I might just be crap at setting it up, but I have never had problems with 2x. I feel the cable maybe is pinched slightly, I have pulled the bike apart 3 times now trying to sort this, any input greatly appreciated.

Hi Robin, there is more chain tension on the 1x derailleur so in combination with the bigger cog than you're used to on 2x, this will mean you'll also find a bit more force is needed to shift it onto the biggest cog. I wouldn't expect any pinched cable, hard to see where that could happen for your rear derailleur. But it's equally hard to really set up a derailleur via the internet, I can't really see or feel what is going on.

The guys over at ETOE (http://www.etoe...cle/) have 7 different custom paint options including 2 different black options - just received mine (in 'magic black' as i wanted to keep the 4 colour OPEN 'logo' on the head tube to break up the all-black look) and it's awesome. Best of all the price is the same as purchasing the normal orange or brown version. They are located in Germany but the shipping here to France was really reasonable (approx EUR30) and they had it to me within 10 days.

Hi Gerard/Andy, I am in the process of building an Open UP and I am still trying to decide which size wheel to go with initially. Since the 700c is more versatile (allowing road, cross and gravel tires) I am leaning in this direction. I am a little bit puzzled though as when I looked at some of the pictures you have on the website, I saw that the Open UP in the brown color has Hed Ardennes + wheels on it and run some 27.5 x 2.25 Canis tires. I could not find any Hed Ardennes + wheels in a 27.5/650b size on internet. Does that mean that it is possible to run 27.5 MTB tyres (Onza Canis) on a 700c Hed Ardennes + wheel set? Or are the Hed Ardennes + wheels in the picture custom wheels in a 27.5 size? Thanks in advance for your help with that. Regards. Pierre

Hi Pierre, the 650b HED Ardennes are custom (that brown bike was a HED limited edition frame). If you call HED (or have your local bike shop call them), I am sure they can make you a set.

With regards to road and 650b, there are more and more tires for that purpose available too. Of course you need to stick with pretty wide tires in that case, otherwise the overall wheel becomes too small, but a 47mm WTB Horizon or any number of other (semi-)slick road tires in 650b that are wide will roll really nicely on the UP, and at the same time give you good volume off-road (so you may not need knobs all the tire and won't need to switch tires that often, if at all - depending on where you live of course)

Hi Gerard/Andy,I just ordered an U.P. and am super excited to ride it everywhere. I know the bike naturally is meant to be out and about and not confined to a trainer but is it possible to mount it up to a trainer (i.e. kurt kinetic). There are just times when I'm going to be stuck in the garage when the little one is sleeping and I can't get out. I'm not exactly sure how the 12mm thru axle works back there as I have not seen how it works yet. Please let me know. Thank you so much.

Hi Noby, both Andy and I prefer riding is really bad weather over riding on a trainer, so we're not sure either how to hook it up. But I'm sure it can be done, there are enough bikes with thru axles out there that the trainer makers must have created a way to connect them. So best check with them directly.

Hello!I'm currently riding a road bike with 53/39 with 11/25 and I would like to have an OPEN UP, SRAM 1x that covers about the same range but with on single front ring...I made some calculation... and I thought that if I take a front ring: 52T and a cassette 10T-42T it could covers my range what I have now on my road bike...Do you think it's possible to fix this on a OPEN UP? Thank you for your advice!

Hi Marc, 53x11 as biggest gear is basically 48x10. So you'd need a 48t front ring, not a 52 (52x10 is a crazy gear that no pro can even turn in a time trial, so you don't need it. In fact I would argue that people who buy bikes (as opposed to being sponsored) don't need 53x11 either, neither on the flats nor on the descents will they go as fast as Sagan or Froome, so why do they need their biggest gear? Not meant as a criticism, but as something to think about. If you can say "hey, I'm rarely in my biggest gear so why not use 53x12 as my biggest or even 53x13", then the steps between gears in your 1x setup become a lot nicer.

Anyway, sticking with 53x11 and thus 48x10, that means that 48x?? should match your smallest gear of 39x25. That means your smallest gear only needs to be a 30t ring. Or in other words, the 10-42 gives you another 40% smaller gear than you really need, so a huge range. So yes, you can get your current range and then some (which will really come in handy off-road so really not a bad thing to have).

However, if you don't really need/want the extra small gears, what I would suggest is to run a 50t front ring and accept a 5% smaller biggest gear than Sagan and Froome and then run an 11-32 cassette. That way, your smallest gear is the same as your current 39x25, your biggest gear is almost what it is now, and you have 11 nice gears that are spaced closely together. And by picking the long cage SRAM derailleur, you can still toss in an 11-36 or 10-42 later if you want to (check for exact details on how to get all that to work with your shop).

Thank you very much Gerard for your very useful answer! I will definitely think about but a 50t with a 11-32 looks nice! For long journey, gravel and road, uphills & downhills with some "light bikepacking" must be perfect, no? ;-) loooooooking forwards!!

Hi Phil, we have quite select distribution (all we can handle being a 2 man company) so there are just a handful of dealers in the UK. you can find them listed via the link in the top right of this page. Most will have demo bikes in certain sizes (often the owner's or employees' bikes) so best to call them and check for specific sizes and availability.

What is the widest 700c tires i can run on the UP? Thinking of the Compass Snoqualmie Pass (44mm) on DT Swiss 29er rims. Saw Compass post a picture of someone running a similar setup on Instagram, looked like the rear tire was REALLY close to the seat post.

Post #187 of 431. Posted by John on 20-Nov-2016 03:12:27 GMT [0<--1212]

I watched your interview with Canadian cycling magazine on YouTube. In the video you made the comment you do not like the seat tube collar. I have a idea on how to replace it with a better looking alternative.

It's not really the specific collar I meant, I dislike them in general the way I like front derailleurs. There's no elegance, it's a crude solution to a problem. But I don't like integrated seat masts either so that's no solution for me!

Can you ballpark the cost for a build, though? (E. g. equipped with SRAM Force 1 accouterments, rigid fork and suitably nice 650b wheels.) The closest retailer in Japan (which is where I live) just sells the frame and doesn't give any guidance either.

Happy new year. Thank you for creating such a great bike, which is lust worthy for all the good reasons. However, I would love to have different color (not a deal breaker) and more importantly, flat mount brakes. I hope these are in the pipeline.

Post #200 of 431. Posted by George on 01-Jan-2017 12:39:03 GMT [0<--1293]

Hi George, every month we have a small number of Ready-To-Paint (RTP) frames available, so you can have them painted in any color you'd like. So indeed, no deal breaker. As for flat mount, time will tell where that goes.

Hi Gerard,thank you for your answer.No problems with chainsuck sounds good.I also thought that M is the right size.I’m not shure, if 170 mm pullout (SH 710 mm; STL 540 mm) for saddle AND seat post looks so good and will work well (flex). Now I have at my Roadbike 200 mm and in mostly all pictures at your page this distance looks like about 250 mm.Post / Flat is yet not so important for me, if the system works it works.One last question: Some BB are dimensioned 86,5 mm (c-bear) are they also ok? I think I have to make a decision. Never ever was I so excited about a new bike and a complete new way of riding / biking.

Hi, your seatpost extension will be fine. The bike in most of the photos is mine, an L, and I tend to ride with a lot of extension. We do like that for flex reasons but at the same time, since this is a road bike with massive tires, most of the flex will come from those tires anyway.

Post and flat mount both have their advantages, a nice one for post mount is that you can use MTB brake calipers (for example XTR brakes actuated by STI levers).

Have been riding my UP for a month now, and what an awesome experience! Doing technical single track one day and endurance road biking the next with just a change of wheels.

One question regarding crank options. I have a compact verve Infocrank I would like to use on the bike, but the left arm touches the frame (by 1 mm or so). Have you experience with/recommendations to give that little extra room needed for the power meter unit. Thanks in advance for your reply.

Hi Chris, yes there are plenty of options in that standard. Cane Creek themselves have 3 levels, FSA has a few different levels as well, so as long as you stick to that SHIS standard that is listed in the specs, those all fit.

Hello, I'm cautious about internal cabling as I have had a very bad experience with a Cannondale synapse disc with constant cable rattle, especially hydraulic disc brake cable in the front fork. So my question is, can I be sure an UP will have no cable rattle?Thanks.

Hi Calum, there is absolutely no hose (it's really not a cable, it's a hydraulic hose) rattling in our frame as we include a foam sleeve for the entire hose. If you go to the Tech Info section on this page (just below the Specifications), you will see an installation video that shows the foam.

Well, the U.P. is a geometry and a whole frame layout to generate really a fast, "road race bike" feel but while riding off-road. It's hard to explain it but many of the reviews you will see at the bottom of this page do a good job, that even though you may have 2.1" tires on the bike, it still feels quick and nimble. And even when you put bikepacking bags on. That's very different from a touring bike designed to handle well with racks and tons of baggage.

I see that Praxis has a new set of Buzz chainrings at a 48/32. I think I recall seeing an earlier post when you suggest that, for a dual chainring, it may be possible to get a little smaller than a 34 inner ring. I believe a 33 was possible (in a dual set up only). Have you received any reports of someone fitting the 48/32 on the UP and, if not, do you believe it may be possible (in theory)?

I' m working on a ne build with my LBS and plan on a ENVE wheel set to start. This will primarily be a Gravel build as I already own a new Specialized Roubaix Pro disc DI2. Any suggestions on starting with 29ers vs 650b. ENVE also has some new All Road wheel sets. Any recommendation? I see many M50 builds.

It does depend on where you ride, how good/bad the gravel is, but for versatility (especially if you already have a road bike) the 650b may make a lot of sense. Then you can really go anywhere and have lots of clearance. And then after six months you'll sell your road bike, get a second set of 700c wheels with road tires and create some extra space in your garage!

Hi - I really like this bike - very impressive. And I applaud you for your participation in a recent forum thread regarding the U.P. - likely either The Paceline or The Riding Gravel Forum. I do have a question. I generally ride a 52x53 road bike and assume the size S would be the best fit for me. In particular because of the top tube length, head tube length and standover. But I'm concerned about the head tube angle of 69.5. It seems very slack compared to most of my road (and gravel) bikes and is in mtn bike territory. Especially since the fork rake appears to be the same as some of the larger frames. That said, I trust that you've considered it's effect on handling but would appreciate any comments on this. Thanks.

Hi Doug, first off, if you want me to look at that sizing for you, just send me a note using the contact form on the left and i will give you some more detailed advice. Looking at toptube and head tube length can be quite deceiving, especially with different fork lengths and seat tube angles.

As for the head tube angle, maybe some owners of Small frames can jump in here if they happen to read it, but I think you'll find its handling is very balanced. If's slacker than road bikes for sure, but the offset is also bigger which counters that. The larger frames are very agile, but that simply would be too much for the smaller frames (it's the large frames that usually suffer from a more sluggish feel, hence the shorter trail).

Thank you Gerard - your prompt reply is very appreciated. I agree re top tube and head tube lengths - I've read what you've said about that. The stack and reach on the size S is very close to a couple of other adventure bikes I own. Well, the stack is quite a bit lower but I'm ok w/that. So, I think the fit would be good. But, I'm mostly concerned about the trail number which seems significantly great than the others. So it would be great if some owners of a size S could share their thoughts. Thank you.

Hi, I am contemplating buying an Open UP and while reading some reviews I stumbled upon an article mentioning the possibility of having a BB converter in order to run a threaded BB instead of a Press Fit BB386EVO. My experience of the BB386EVO is unfortunately a fair bit a creaking, which is why I am interested in converters for threaded bottom Bracket that would fit the Open UP. I have heard that Praxis Works for instance have such converters. But after having a good look online the only products I could find are to convert BB30 or PF30 to threaded BB. But not the BB386 EVO. In fact on the Praxis works website, they clearly state that their BB converters are not for BB386 EVO. I was wondering if you could point me in the right direction if there are to your knowledge such BB conversion kit. Any advice would be great. Thanks in advance for your help with that. Kind Regards. Pierre

The Enduro TorqTite is a great way to avoid creaking of any frame. It threads the two sides of the BB cups into each other, and still works with 30 mm axle cranks. They also make a version compatible with 24 mm axle cranks. Is that what you're looking for?

Just trying to make sure I'm not missing anything: flat-mount brake compatibility cost $USD 1600 over a post-mount frame? I understand new tooling is required for the frame, but that would be a single tube/dropout mold? Am I missing anything? A new fork?

I think this is answered in the very first section of this page? It's listed exactly what the differences are, including that the U.P.P.E.R. frame is much lighter, the fork is new, the thru-axles are different, the flat mount vs post mount and the paint. I'm not sure how much new tooling is needed, they don't mention it here on the page but Gerard did mention something about the tooling and the new layup during the live web stream. Andy and Gerard also went into more detail about the differences, but it all evolved around the ones mentioned there.

Ok, I missed the part about the different layup and how much more complex the upper's is. But that important detail is buried in the copy, not in the first section. Unrelated, but I can't get over how much better this bike looks in black - which is telling since I don't usually dig black bikes.

Now a happy UP owner for almost a year, but when I recently upgraded to Schwalbe Rocket Ron 2.25" my life improved even more. Such a smooth ride!However, to mount a tire even wider than that, the limiting factor would not be the fork itself, but the front brake cable, and in particular the uppermost fixation ring. Tape would of course fix it, but who would want to ruin the beautiful esthetics? A minute design imperfection of the fork, that maybe could be the target for future improvement, Gerard?

Hi Mike, I am not sure, is this a question or a comment related to somebody else's comment here on the page? If it's a question, it's a bit too cryptic for me. Just shoot me a direct message with the Contact form at left and I'll help you.

Hi Gerard; I admire what you have done here and have done for so many years (I love all my Cervelos that I have had over the years).. This looks like a fabulous bike and I wish you great success with the project(s)..!!! I had many long chats with fellow club member Damon Rinard about design philosophy, etc., and it's great to see that you are still 'seeking' with passion and honesty, even after so many years in the business..!

I've been thinking about an U.P for months now and am just about ready to make my move .. but I would like to build this as a flat-bar bike .. Yes odd maybe, but my use is for more trail and rougher stuff rather than the normal CX riding conditions.. I am wrestling with sizing: normally my best fit in a road bike (and cyclocross) would be with a 56.5 - 57.5cm top tube. But given the angles here, and also that I'm essentially making it into a 'mountain bike' (which for various reasons always have longer top tubes and front reach), I am wondering whether to go up a size to the XL, whereas I would normally fit perfectly your L frame if it were with drop bars. Can you shed some light onto my dilemma? (in the end I might just revert to drop bars if this is a disaster, but I have several amazing cross bikes that do their job well).. Apologies in advance if it looks like I'm turning your 'jewel' into Franken-bike..Thanks !

Well, I think you're not trying to build a hardtail around the UP frame, right, because if you want a 100% hardtail, get a hardtail frame. If I read you correctly, you want to ride where you would ride an UP, and a bit tougher (or maybe as tough as many UP riders do, but with a higher level of control or "uprightness" that matches your needs and not theirs). In that case, I would say you go with the regular UP frame size as if it were a road frame. Yes, a hardtail has a longer reach, but it also has normally a shorter stem. There are several examples of this in the SHOWCASE on this website.

On the other hand, if you already have several cross bikes you have done this with, I'd recommend doing the same sizing for the UP. Because whether my theory or your assumptions are correct doesn't really matter, what matters most is what you actually ride already.

Thanks Gerard for your comment; I think it does help me to confirm going with my regular road/CX size frame, even though I am using a flat-bar handlebar. If it feels too cramped, well then I'll put on the drop bars. No, I have not done this to my CX bikes, they have normal drop bars, so this is really new territory for me. I am doing this because I feel too 'lanky' on the technical and rough stuff using a CX bike and wanted more control, but don't really like riding a proper hardtail MTB or 29er.. I don't care for suspension and I'm not really planning to jump off cliffs with it. You mentioned some photos in the OPEN galleries, but I do not see any with flat-bar setups..? Thanks again.!

Ahhh, yes; there it is. What a beauty! ..Indeed, I was looking at the Galleries in U.P. page. Nice long stem on there, which I think gives me 'corragio' with this build on a size L frame .. Thanks again for all your attention..!

Hi Olivier, I'm a bit confused about you saying it's a "custom" frame, do you mean the frame is a different orange than our standard orange frame? For our standard orange (or really any orange), it can be quite tough to match exactly with things like a saddle and bar tape, since even the materials are different which affects the look. But Fabric is a company that makes saddles and tape in a lot of different colors, I know that a lot of our customers find good luck with that. Another option of course is to go with one of the other accent colors that come out of our logo (in the ring around the head tube), for example the green (Fabric is quite a good match) or the blue (also pretty good). Hope that helps.

Ha no I meant the bike will be custom built from the standard orange frame you offer :-)Thanks for the suggestions. I think I'll try the standard Deda tape in "Ocra Instense" it seems to be a match. If not i'll definitely try matching one of the other colors or resort to standard black :-p

Officially 30mm. In reality plenty people use 35mm, it all depends a bit on the clearance you want and the rim/tire combination you use (i.e. rim width and tire width fibbing). BTW, not really an UP issue, it's the same for any frame using the eTap, except most frames themselves limit tire width a bit sooner than the UP.

Hi Gerard, I was planning to go with an eTap build but have just seen this comment. What is the limiting factor? Is this the same with all 2x setups, just eTap or just SRAM?? I was looking forward to riding a clean looking eTap on wider 40mm tires... ??

Ok....found the thead elsewhere on the site. May have to consider Di2 instead....or go with 1x. I see from your interview on Road.cc recently tha you think we will all be 1x in the not too distant future but I am still concerned over the limitations/compromises required over total gear range vs steps between gears. If I was just planning to be running on gravel and in the forrests I would be more comfortable but for long distance rides inculdeing steeper gradients, I am still not sure...

Yes, of course you can do that. If you make wider cranks with wider rings the FD also moves out. But it hurts your pedalling efficiency, one of the differences between road and mountain bikes. In reality, eTap also fits larger than the 30mm that SRAM officially claims, but they like to stay on the safe side.

Hi Simon, the funny part is, the easiest way to get a wide range is with 1x. There are 1x systems with more than 500% range, very hard to get that on most 2x. As for the steps, I really never feel like I'm missing something on my gravel bike despite the large range. But of course it's a personal choice. That said, you definitely don't need the FD that much, so it's not that important to electrify it.

Thanks Gerard. You have me moving towards a 1x system. I guess I need to try it before deciding. I have a Rohloff speedhub on a city bike and I never use all the gears. I also look forward to seeing what SRAM come out with for next season. Maybe even a Red eTap 1x.... ??

Well, most brakes still come in both flat mount and post mount. And some still only in post mount (for example all the MTB brakes that fit on the UP) and then some indeed only in flat mount (new DuraAce being the relevant one). So we'll keep monitoring the situation, luckily for us we don't need 12 months lead time like "normal" bike companies, we can make such changes very rapidly. But for now we have the UP with post mount and the UPPER with flat mount and we'll see how the market develops.

U.P.P.E.R cross/gravel - very interesting but for me too complicated only to buy a frame, i need a total solution, one-stop-shop you might say, could you build some bikes with e.g. SRAM Force single speed and whatever light parts you prefer and give a TOTAL weight and price? how low could you get a Cross U.P.P.E.R ?

You can get 7kg with good, durable parts, not super light stuff that doesn't work. If you take good care of the weight of course.

All our our dealers do complete bikes, they do them exactly how you like them and most of them also have some "standard" suggested packages that are well-suited for the type of riding in your area (which may be quite different from where other customers live). So best to check directly with them. https://opencyc...alers

I have an OPEN UP with the 3T Luteus II fork and wanted to swap the included 'quick release style' thru axle for one that sits flush with the fork (and removed with a 6mm allen key) - do you have any recommendations?

In the Ready-to-Paint version it would be nice to still preserve the "OPEN" logo that's on the down-tube in your pre-painted frames. Do you have some way to preserve that, e.g. a decal that gets stuck on between the paint & clear coat layers, or ...?

I'm not yet sure I'll go this way; I'm starting from scratch to 1) find somebody who will do awesome, 2) what I'd want it to look like, and 3) make sure the paint job doesn't cost more than the frame! :-) Any thoughts as to whether people have had better luck looking for a bicycle, motorcycle, or car custom painter?

(The hardest decision, though it doesn't require comment: Whether to go Force 1x or double chainring. I sense I may use this on road frequently, and I may want the narrower gearing afforded with 2 chainrings.)

BTW - this assumes I can *order* the Ready-to-Paint version from you. I note that it's not in the store.... No hurry if it's not immediately in-stock - though I'm hoping it might be order-able with some notice (e.g. a month or two lead-time).

IF you happen to remember, could you post here when your next batch of RTP frames hit the site? I've got a local frame painter (https://www.ins...int/) that I'd love to have tackle a frame with a swell paint job.

I'll monitor the store every few days; but I'd be more comfortable if you could post as a follow-up comment here, so I'd get notice.

Many custom painters will paint the logo with masks, rather than using decals. But either way, we don't supply the decals as they are specific to our painting method, but custom painters do recreate the decals or masks that they need to put OPEN on the downtube for example. Along with any other paint scheme you may want.

Hello. I just ordered an UP and am a bit confused about which cranks I can use after watching the video. I have Rotor 3D+ cranks and I want to run a double up front. It sounds like this may not be possible based on the video on crank compatibility I watched. Rotor makes a BB386 BB, so is this some sort of issue with the frame clearing it? Thanks for the help as I would love to not have to buy new cranks.

Gerard, Why are Campy cranks a problem with the U.P. and UPPER frameset? Does the new H11 Ultra-Torque cranksets solve this problem by moving the chain rings outboard by 3-4mm, without a change in Q factor? Is the Q factor the issue with arm clearance with the chainstays? I've been in the retail side of the bicycle industry for 39 years, so I'm pretty familiar with many compatibility issues. Thanks, Rick

Hi Rick, this may sound crazy but we don't know why they are a problem. The Potenza crank works, no problem whatsoever. There's at least one in the showcase. The Record crank has the exact same relevant dimensions according to the technical drawings, but it doesn't work from what several dealers have told us. We don't understand it, but people are obviously upset when they find out their Campy crank doesn't fit, so that's why we warn for it. But again, the Potenza crank works.

I bought an OPEN UP frame (orange) and I want to install the new Sram Force CX1. The specs of the crankset is BB30 and the link is: https://www.bik...9Can you inform me if the crankset of the link above is compatible with the frame?

If it is a new model crank, then yes. It seems to indicate such with the description "30mm axle FULL LENGTH" but it's not 100% clear from that site. I would assume they have current product, not a previous year model, but you might want to ask them to be sure.

Hi Michael, I have no idea, SRAM's descriptions are sometimes hard to comprehend. Maybe the BB386 crank is a BB30 crank without the one spacer you need to remove, maybe it's just a retailer describing it a certain way, I don't know. I don't really see SRAM making the distinction between the two.

Hi Agusti, I do not believe the Ultegra STAGES crank will clear the chain stays of the UPPER. Because we have such great tire clearance, we need all the remaining space between the wheel and the crank for the chain stays. Hence large pods that hang on the inside of the crank arm are a problem. If you need more info, feel free to use the form on the left to contact me.

Hi Gerard, Sort of the same question as above - I would like dual power meters (left and right numbers separated) and was going to get the compact dura ace 9000 175mm length crank with a 4iiii left crank arm power meter and a right spider power meter installed on to it. As far as I am aware, it is more compact than the stages version and stands out less from the left crank arm - any idea if I should go ahead and purchase? Any other immediately available dual sided power meters you could recommend - by far, my plan A is the above, with a bb 386 evo 4624mm.If you for eg. recommend the rotor 2 in power, what BB should I get? (ie. spindle width vs 24mm spindle for shimano etc.) I get confused by all the nomenclature, eg. bb right etc, etc.

4iiii is more compact but I don't know if it is compact enough. Obviously the Rotor always works. As for their recommended BB, it's really best to ask them. The BB shell is standard: BB386EVO. The cranks and bearings are all over the place nowadays, so always best to ask the crank manufacturer which bearing set they recommend for BB386EVO.

Hi Gerard,I'm having persistent trouble with my UP and Sram CX 1 x 11 shifting. After only a few rides from new the shifting was troublesome so I decided to install a new cable. The problem quickly returned. I have since had another new cable installed by a LBS whose mechanical expertise is of the highest calibre and again the set up works on the workshop jig and for a test ride around the car park but once ridden for an hour or so the problem of sloppy shifting - having to shift twice and then back one to settle things down returns.The only "cure" thus far appears to be to allow the cable to run free outside of the bar tape hence removing the rather tight bend on the cable when exiting the CX1 shifterI wondered if this was something other UP owners have experienced and or if you had any idea what the cause of the problem may be. (the rear mech has not been damaged in anyway nor has the shifter and as described above removing the tight cable curve from the cable route eliminates the problem but obviously looks rubbish).I look forward to your comments - I appreciate there are many UP's out there with the same set up.

Hi Mark, that doesn't sound familiar, and the SRAM 1x is probably the most used set-up so we would have heard from others too (aside from the fact that Andy and I use it a lot too).

My first thought is, is the rear derailleur hanger properly tightened in the frame? There is a cap on the outside of the dropout that has to be properly tightened, otherwise the hanger can move and then shifting can definitely be off. If that doesn't solve it, just contact Andy with the form on the left, he will then get back to you and probably ask some photos which you can then send. But check the hanger cap first.

And I intend to use a Wheels Manufacturing 386EVO ZERØ CERAMIC BB (Threaded).http://wheelsmf...lCan you offer any help on what spacers, if any, I should use? What are the spacers used for, where do they go? And what should I be aiming for when setting crankset up? Any help would be greatly appreciated. PS. LOVE this bike!!

Good question, but I am not sure you need any spacers with the Cinch system. But that's really a question for Easton, it would be the same on any BB386EVO frame and I am not sure what they recommend for that particular crank.

At some point will the U-turn fork he available with the U.P. frame? My reason for asking is front axle compatibility- my road disc bike has an Enve fork with 12mm axle while the 3T Luteus is a 15mm. Having some ability to interchange wheels would be very useful.

Hi All,I´m only a "user" of a mountainbike. Biking only 2-3 times a week and unfortunately very often on streets. Now I saw the Open bikes. Could they solve my problem - 70% street, 20% gravel and 10% with my mountain bike.I am not the specialist to discuss special frame sets, fork types etc.Would you suggest UP or UPPER??Thanx for your proposals

sorry for the very late reply. We normally are not that bad with answering. Yes, yes for you that would be the right bike. The nice thing about the UP/UPPER is that your position is like on a road bike and therefore you are much faster on pavement and gravel. If you really want to do trails also then you could go with 27.5 wheels and have a 2.1 MTB tire also. But also with 29/700C wheels and a 36-40mm tire you can do a lot of trail stuff. We could have a call also if you want. just send me a mail with the contact button at the left side of that screen

Hi Gerard, I would like dual power meters (left and right numbers separated) and was going to get the compact dura ace 9000 175mm length crank with a 4iiii left crank arm power meter and a right spider power meter installed on to it. As far as I am aware, it is more compact than the stages version and stands out less from the left crank arm - any idea if I should go ahead and purchase? Any other immediately available dual sided power meters you could recommend - by far, my plan A is the above, with a bb 386 evo 4624mm.If you for eg. recommend the rotor 2 in power, what BB should I get? (ie. spindle width vs 24mm spindle for shimano etc.) I get confused by all the nomenclature, eg. bb right etc, etc.Could you give me an exact bb 386 evo brand - threaded and non threaded manufacturer options?I was thinking of the Rotor PF46 EVO386 Ceramic Bottom Bracket with 24mm spindle size, if going for my crank of choice, which was shimano dura-ace 50/34 9100 compact.

Hi Gordon, the BB386EVO is a standard, so any BB with that standard will fit into our frame. That is not the problem, the issue may be if the BB works with the crank you want. So I would always recommend to go with the BB recommendation that the crank manufacturer suggests, for us from the frame side it really doesn't matter.

Hi Silvain, no this probably will not fit. Most 38mm tires fit some of the 40 but 42 is kind of limit. Anyway if you want that wide tires its better to go to 27.5 wheels and then you can fit 50mm tires!

I have 700 c wheels with WTB Resolutes on my UPPER. Works great. I love the Resolutes - they are fast on pavement and great on the dirt. The rear tire narrowly misses the seat tube but there is room - even in wet conditions. I recommend the Resolutes. It's my favorite tires or maybe my Compass 650b x 48's are awesome too. Rode those in the Crusher at the Tushar.

No, that is exactly also my opinion. I've tried the Specialized Sawtooth. Beside of being heavy, they were just too much and only left a few mm of clearance at the seatpost. It worked out on the road when dry. But on gravel and snow it didn't. After all it is the main purpose of a gravel bike. Some tires usually deflect to the wider (like Challenge) so my curiosity was if the WTB Resolute maybe don't.

Hi Clint, it is kind of difficult to answer that question as it depends a lot what width of rim you use and what tire. There is huge difference between tires with the same "theoretical" size. Thats why we say mx 2.1 tire then we can sure every tire fits with almost every rim that makes sense for that tire size

I'm considering a adventure/gravel grinder bike, but am not a fan of the dropper bars. My DNA is MTB. I have a road bike but never got used to the hunched over stance and subsequent stiff neck. I rode the Grinduro! last year on my Canfield Bros. Nimble-9 hardtail MTB and had a blast, but it is hefty at 29-lbs. Is either of your UP/UPPER bikes available with straight/flat bars? How about a dropper post? It looks like you guys are wizards of cycles and thought I'd ask you gurus before rolling the dice at a bay area bike shop.

Hi Gary, of course you could ride the UP/UPPER with a flat handlebar. We have 2-3 customers that built it like that. Not forbidden but also something we are not really pushing as we have our hardtail ONE + also that is designed for flat bars and being one of the lightest frames has also only 870 grams in size Large. Dropper post no problem with both of them. If you go 1x and with Sram you can nicely integrated the lockout in the left lever thats a real nice thing to do. So I would say if you want flat go with the ONE + if you use drop bars then go with the UP/UPPER

I noticed many here are running with Enve M50's on the U.P.P.E.R. The U-turn fork is a 12x100TA, but aren't the M50's 15x100TA? I assume there is some kind of 15 to 12 adapter one must use? What do you recommend using to convert a 27.5 15x100 wheelset for these forks?

Hi guys, 2 questions on putting together my new Upper: 1. On installing the included Cane Creek headset onto the U-Turn fork, the crown race does not seem to seat all the way down onto the shoulder or flat part of the fork. Is this ok? I've done nothing to prep the steerer tube other than to apply some grease, and the inside bevel on the crown race sits "solidly" on the tapered OD of the steerer tube, just not down as far as I am used to seeing. 2. Is 40mm the correct bolt length to attach Shimano flat mount calipers to the U-turn fork (with a washer under the bolt head)? I did not see any such bolts included, and of course, the ones that came with the calipers are very short, intended to attach the caliper with the bracket, which doesn't get used with the U-turn. I like the idea of tossing the bracket and attaching caliper directly to fork, I just want to make sure I'm doing it correctly.I can't wait to get on this bike and ride! My plan was to take it "slow", and assemble it over the next month since I won't see any Shimano 9170 shifters and calipers until at least then, but... I might just have to steal some parts from another bike.

Yes, sorry, I wasn't very clear. The lower bearing itself is sitting directly on the carbon steerer. There was no separate crown race included. As I say, the bevel on the ID of the bearing does sit "solidly" on the tapered steerer. And the stack/fit-up looks right once the fork is in the head tube. My only concern is the gap between the bottom surface of the lower bearing and the shoulder of the fork. I have limited experience with carbon forks, so maybe this is normal and all is "good", with the interface between lower bearing and carbon fork limited to that bevel in the ID.

27mm bolts for the rear, 37mm bolts for the front flat mount brakes. For the bearing, indeed there will be a small gap between the bottom of the head tube and the top of the fork crown. But we're talking 1-2mm, not more, if it is more, then the bearing is probably not seated correctly in the head tube.

Thanks Gerard. Indeed, the gap is as you describe, about 1mm, so all is well with the headset. Regarding the bolts for flat mount calipers, have you a source to reccomend for the M5 27mm and 37mm lengths? Or do you think it is ok to round up to 30mm & 40mm respectively, since that's all I've seen available?

Post #387 of 431. Posted by David Zink on 06-Aug-2017 23:45:02 GMT [6963<--6965]

Hi Gerard, my apologies if this is not the appropriate place to ask this question.

Since you own? both Open & 3t, could you please help me understand the differences you believe exist between the U.P.P.E.R. and the 3t Exploro and possibly why someone should consider purchasing one bike over the other?

hi, Reading about the UP, a lot is written about its "gravel" side, but I was wondering how it's on the road. With "small" road tires (28 mm) how does it feels in comparaison as other road bike. At the present time, I have a BMC Grandfondo 02, which I find very confortable, on the road, was wondering if the UP will be the same feeling or probably better on the road with small tires, or if a better comparaison would be with a bike like the 3T exploro. thanks for your greats products devlopment & philosophy !

Hi Jean-Marc, obviously I am biased but I use my UP on the road all the time. I run it with 30mm tires just because I can (why not run it a bit bigger when the space is there) and I'm actually selling my old road bike because I simply never ride it anymore. And then for gravel I simply switch the wheels to 650b (of course you can also keep the same wheels and just switch the tires). Hope that helps.

Probably more like a Large. If you contact me with the form on the left and give me some information about any road/gravel/cross bike you like the fit of (brand/model/size/year) I can take a closer look.

Love the idea behind the Up and Upper. A question -- if I toss road gearing (53-42 / 11-25) and fast carbon wheels on the Upper, would it work for road racing? I'm not looking for super-aggressive geometry. But the frame and fork are really light, so it looks like a complete road build would be under 16 lbs. Thanks!

Hi Mark, we have a lot of people who use the UP and UPPER as a road bike (including myself sometimes). It wouldn't work for winning a pro race since it won't fit a 53-42 cassette, but it will work with a 50-36 crank. That's really big enough for any normal human, since that's only 5% smaller than Froome & Sagan.

Mark, I raced a stage race this weekend, and rode my brand new Upper in both a road race and a crit. I only do an occasional criterium, but I felt comfortable in the corners with both the bottom bracket height and handling, and the bike was plenty responsive sprinting out of the saddle. And road racing? Heck yes! I bought the bike to race on gravel, but it goes up the tarmac climbs and descends like a dream. As you say, with some nice carbon wheels and 28mm tires, mine weighs in at 15.8 lbs, albeit with a Di2 1X setup, 48/10-42. The gearing a few comments, but I'm very happy with it.

Hi, can you please confirm if the Mavic Crossmax SL Pro WTS MTB Wheelset 2016 (650b) would be compatible with the U.P.? (They have them on offer at Chain Reaction at the moment). I think I read somewhere that I need center lock, but can't remember where. Thanks

Centerlock or 6 bolt makes no difference for the UP, that's really an "internal wheel thing". Any wheelset in principle works, as long as it comes in a version (or has replaceable end caps) that make it work with the correct axle lengths and diameters. That means 142x12 in the rear for all our frames and 100x15 for the Classic UP or 100x12 for the New UP and the UPPER.

Hi There, I have read the various comments regarding front derailleur's and I am not clear if I can use an XTR Di2 front and rear derailleur. It appears that the XTR di2 attachment mechanism will not work on the UPPER/UP frame. Is that correct? Thanks

Correct, you cannot attach an MTB front derailleur to a road FD mount. And a road front and MTB rear Di2 derailleur will not communicate together with road shift levers (two road or two MTB derailleurs will, but you cannot mix derailleur families).

Just received my U.P.P.E.R. I would like to have a 2x11 set up since I am going with SRAM eTap HRD WiFli. I did see that SRAM offers a BB386 Evo double crankset. Any issues here? Only asking because the recommendations with SRAM BB30 is a single ring configuration. Thanks!

"The seattube angle is designed around the use of a straight, zero-setback seatpost rather than a regular seatpost with setback (we’ve never understood those)."

Well that's so you can get saddle in correct position for pedalling. I have relatively long femur for my height, so need saddle set back a lonnng way to get correct position over the pedals. I recall you mentioning skipping setback before on the Open UP when it first appearedand thought it a bit odd as other stuff on bike is so well thought out.

Well, then for you it's even better. If you would start with a frame with a 73.5 degree seat tube, you would need a very big setback on your post to make that work. On our frame, you could use a much smaller setback (if not zero then probably a 25mm) to get to your needed position.

Maybe what I should write is that it is silly that the DEFAULT setup of a seatpost is to have 25mm setback. The default should not be to have the angle going one way and then needing an offset in the post to correct that. And the only reason that is really the case because in the previous century, the way seat posts were made it was easier to make them with a setback. Since that is no longer the case (seat post saddle clampsno longer use single bolts with cerated cradles), there is also no reason to adhere to that "standard".

Hi. I have Stages + FSA Gossamer BB30 crankset on my existing bike (2012 Specialized Crux). Can I run this crankset on the UP frame? What BB adapter would I need. And any idea if the left chainstay would have enough clearance for the Stages powermeter module?

You don't need that wide a tire. For example I'm using the new 3T discus plus TEAM wheel that is 30mm ID and specifically designed for RoadPlus/GravelPlus (so not designed for mountain bikes) and it thus works perfectly with something like a 47mm Horizon RoadPlus setup or with a 2.1" MTB tire for a GravelPlus setup. I haven't tried the Road 60.

A mountain bike wheel is just a bit (or a lot) overbuilt. Especially in 27.5", which is a size that is most popular for Enduro and other heavy-hitting bikes, so the wheels are often bombproof and a bit heavier. By designing it specifically for RoadPlus, gravel and trails (and not for 6 ft jumps) the wheel can be lighter and more aero.

So you can definitely use a mountain bike wheel in a road/gravel bike, but don't use a RoadPlus or GravelPlus wheel in a mountain bike.

Hi Andy and Gerard, do you recommend using Loctite 641 or any other retaining compound in conjunction with bottom bracket cups? In my case, I'm installing a Rotor PF4624 bb, for use with Shimano cranks. Rotor instructs the user to apply loctite 641 or similar. I'd like to know if you guys agree with respect to the Open U.P. Thanks in advance.