A post over at The Rational Male and the comments that follow got me thinking about some of the games girls play, and how men are getting hip to such games and are countering with self-preservation strategies of their own.

(NOTE: A word to the wise, before you go to that blog and post how “not all women are like that” NAWALT or to try to argue, just don’t. I guarantee you will not be met with understanding or a warm reception. It’s a “guy space.” Please respect that and just read but not comment. Comment here instead.)

For example, consider this comment by YaReally from a guy point of view of such games, and ask yourself how many times have you seen a girlfriend do this (or have done it yourself?) Then ask yourself if you were a guy, how would you feel if almost every girl you dated offered you this deal?

“No man “committing” to a girl raised in 2016 culture is in a monogamous LTR. He’s in a one-sided pLTR (Primary LTR, a primary partner with multiple orbiters/side-poon) but in the GIRL’S favor (aka she keeps her options available while he restricts his own).

Social media and women out of the kitchen and into the workplace etc creates a system where women can openly gather and string orbiters along and openly seek higher-value options than her current man and this is socially acceptable because it’s all done under the guise of “just being friends” or anonymity.

If her significant other tries to restrict her access to that stuff, he’s labelled controlling, insecure, jealous, abusive, etc And if the guy keeps his own options open, he’s a player, cheat, unfaithful, emotionally abusive, etc

In the old days, before modern technology (especially before phones were invented but even in, like, the 50s say), a woman had to go out of her way to gather and keep orbiters around. It took actual effort and even if she went out looking she really only had access to a handful of men besides her husband. Once she determined that he was her best option, her Hypergamy was satisfied enough to make a relationship work long-term. That doesn’t mean women didn’t cheat, or weren’t subconsciously still on the prowl for some mysterious high-value stranger who passes through town, but like, it was significantly more difficult to entertain that shit (plus she had other shit to do with her day, like keeping the house/family taken care of before modern technology turned cooking, laundry, cleaning, etc into short often automated tasks that give her tons of free time to be bored).

But today’s technology means that a girl can be dating the greatest catch in her social circle, but still potentially have access to an even higher value guy through her social media. And if she switches to that guy, when he’s sitting on the couch beside her being boring, she can be communicating with a AAA celebrity through her social media.

Hypergamy doesn’t “shut off”, it NEVER sleeps…it’s ALWAYS there, always pinging for value. If you can keep her away from other men that don’t necessarily HAVE higher-value than you but that she PERCEIVES *MAY* have higher-value than you in HER value system of what constitutes high-value (which causes her to feel that compelling instinctive urge to test to SEE if he is juuuust incase he IS and she should pursue him), then you have a shot. But all the actions that would help that are demonized and villified as controlling, abusive, etc thanks to feminism pushing for Open Hypergamy and Open Cuckolding. This is why they’ll keep pushing that stuff trying to program boys from an early age so that it’s normalized to them when they’re adults and they don’t question the arrangement where they give up all their options while the girl says she does but is still pinging for better in the background thanks to the technology that’s made that abundant, easy and discreet (and connected her to astronomically high-value males like celebrities).

The ruse is that a relationship where a man gives up all his options and is sexually faithful to a woman, while the woman is sexually faithful to him (for now) but is constantly subconsciously on the prowl for better (because social media and being in male spaces like male workplaces and hobbies) under an “innocent” frame of “oh that’s just some guy from work, it’s no big deal, why are you getting jealous don’t be so insecure!”, is still “a monogamous relationship”.

That’s NOT a monoLTR. That is a pLTR in the woman’s favor. No guy dating/settling with a girl in 2016 is settling into a “monogamous LTR”, he’s settling into a “pLTR in the woman’s favor”. Like, guys need to really let that concept sink in.

The only guys in ACTUAL monoLTRs are guys who’s significant others don’t (or barely) use social media (so a lot of guys with older wives which is why I stress the raised in 2016 culture thing, or if you can find like, an Amish girl lol), and/or don’t (or barely) spend time in male spaces around other men (like working at a place where she’s surrounded by high-value men).

Literally any girl with social media is only offering guys a pLTR in her favor, but everyone in society including the man agreeing to it will still call it a monoLTR, and that man will find himself frustrated that she has orbiters posting/flirting on her Facebook wall but will then realize he’s in a Kobayashi Maru when he tries to call her out on it and is labelled jealous/insecure for it…he won’t be able to articulate it unless he’s a Red Pill guy and even then it depends on how much of the pill he’s swallowed, but he’ll instinctively know that him sitting on the couch watching Netflix while she sits beside him surfing Facebook and responding to guys on her Facebook wall, that something isn’t “right” with that agreement he’s entered. Because it’s lopsided in her favor.

This is why I’m pushing for guys to understand and explore the dynamics of how pLTRs and oLTRs work, and how oLTRs naturally become pLTRs if you can keep her Hypergamy triggered, and just REQUIRING a pLTR from her already puts you near the top of her Hypergamous options because it’s giving her all the shit she needs (dread, jealousy, etc) and giving you all the shit you need (sexworthiness, charisma to flirt with other girls, abundance mentality to walk away, etc) for her to stay attracted to you.

And it’s why I’m pushing for guys to start experimenting with pLTRs so we can get more guys in them and get more guys thinking about how we can successfully have and raise kids in a pLTR (in the man’s favor) arrangement with no legal ties and possibly accepting the fact that women may not stay past the 7 year itch and prepare for accepting that and prospering within the new system.

Because the old system is DEAD. MonoLTRs don’t exist anymore. I can’t re-state that enough.

Unless you can keep your girl jobless in your home and off all forms of social media (even the seemingly innocent ones that are for hobby groups or business networking etc)…which with a 20+yo girl in 2016 with a huge social network, is pretty unrealistic (her friends/family (who are all in shitty relationships themselves) will likely view you as abusive and be trying to turn her against you to “save” her from the horror that is your relationship actually having a chance at working out lol). You may manage to make an “LTR” work in 2016 with a girl raised in 2016 culture, but understand that unless you’re pro-actively running a pLTR in your favor, you are making a “pLTR in her favor” work, not a “monoLTR”.

This is a big part of why marriage is a bad deal. Even if you marry a chick who doesn’t use social media, and get her to quit her job to be a housewife, when she’s sitting around at home all day long bored out of her mind, she’s VERY likely going to end up getting social media to have some kind of contact with the outside world, and now you’re legally tied to a pLTR in her favor. The best you can do is even the odds out with your own girls, but you’ve signed legal paperwork handing her all the power in the world to destroy your life if you miscalibrate at some point in the next 40+ years.

And none of this is even taking into account the social conditioning girls are receiving from an early age telling them boyfriends and commitment and monogamy are all a drag that keeps you from having fun going to Avicii concerts with your BFF girlfriends and hooking up with guys and you’ll be young forever and Amy Schumer gets the rich doctor when she’s 35 and shit.”

Or in other words, if you are a girl who wants to have a successful relationship in an era where more and more men are seeing trading commitment for sex in an era of free and easy sex and no fault divorce as a fools game, you should NOT play such games.

And the thing is, you may fall into playing these girl games without even realizing that you are doing it or why. Because women are hard wired to seek the best match possible (hypergamy). At one time, engagement/marriage was the end of that, largely because women who divorced without VERY GOOD reasons were ostracized. But not anymore. The removal of the social stigma of divorce and/or serial monogamy (moving from one sexually active “LTR” to the next) have removed the safeguards that in the past protected men once they committed to a woman that she would stay and be committed to him. Being conscious of said girl games and guarding yourself from playing them will set you ahead of the other girls who are playing such games. Often because dating and relationship advice aimed at women encourages such games.

In days past, men were the ones who were on the commitment hot seat. Not anymore. Today it is the woman who needs to prove her worthiness of commitment, not the other way around. Why? Because more often than not today women are the ones to initiate breaking said commitment, not him. And she will get plenty of support from society when she decides to break said commitment, unlike a guy who will still be shamed for doing so.

Many a woman today can be heard wailing, “Where have all the good guys gone?” But the truth is in many (most) cases, the actions of women themselves, the very real financial and emotional risks a man takes by getting legally entangled with a women via marriage and children, and the obvious societal support for women to hold the right to exercise moving on (or up) whenever she sees fit without condemnation or shame, have chased those good guys off. Not the other way around.

Why are the good guys dropping out? Because modern women are presenting them with a no-win deal. End of. Why commit to someone who always has the socially sanctioned and even encouraged option to uncommit to you? Instead, they choose to opt out by playing the “let’s not commit” game themselves.

So before we blame the guys, ladies, it’s good to do a personal inventory and ask yourself, are you playing girl games — and likely losing now that men are getting hip to these games? If so, perhaps it’s time to do and be different.

What do you think? Please share in the comments, while at the same time respecting the point of view of other commenters.

FNU LNU,
I didn’t know. That bit about bringing home take out food and there is none for you speaks volumes. I have heard of women taking their men for granted but that surpasses belief. Yes, I understand “Never Again!”

Agreed. Bringing home food for everyone but one person is a huge F.U. in glowing neon lights. Tells the non-recipient that they are not wanted, or not even worth thinking of. My stepfather would do this same scenario to me, constantly…take the rest of the family out to an expensive dinner when he knew I’d be working. I understand that type of pain, FL. It hurts when someone who is supposed to care about you acts beastly instead.

Tarn,
It is awful when family treats you that way. One year, I had Christmas off, for the first ime in seventeen years. I got yelled at for not wearing a coat and tie to dinner when, the previous night, a dress shirt and jeans went unremarked. I left. The next year, I didn’t mind working Christmas.
Grrrr!

The thing is, we are all missing out on a multitude of different life paths.

I can say for me; that the only thing I’m missing out on is a way to get away from being a job slave. I have to take care of the family.:) I would like to know when someone is going to pay me to stay home and be a father.

P.S. I think some feminist just had a heart attack because I said that their precious career is nothing but a necessary evil.

That isn’t even a thing. I literally saved her when she was having a medical emergency. Four months later and in front of one of her friends, when asked about when my birthday was she said “tomorrow”, when it had been three days earlier.

Tarnished wrote: “Sergey says that spinsterhood/eternal bachelors will endure crushing loneliness and feelings of inadequacy, but I have my doubts.”

I do too. There are probably many lonely spinsters, but I don’t meet them, I guess because I move in different social circles, where having a purpose in life? If someone doesn’t get married or have kids, that’s a shame, but their life is not over. They need to make something of it and there are plenty of ways to do that.

Like this example: This woman turned down a marriage proposal in order to remain single and fulfill what she considered her “calling.” Should she have married and had children instead?

I agree that family is important and a life of idle pursuit of comfort and entertainment is sad and empty, and I think that having no family combined with having shallow interests is a recipe for loneliness later on in life.

Even those who marry and have kids should have something outside of that to give them purpose. The kids eventually move out and start their own lives, and then how does a person fill their days? If you have a purpose in life, a goal, or some sort of project or talent to pursue, then you can have a good life, and if you don’t have kids for whatever reason, then you shouldn’t be an empty, lonely husk of a person. There’s no reason for anyone to live like that.

Changing the subject: Growing up, I was the only person in my circle of friends who had an intact, two-parent HAPPY family at home. There were a few friends with parents who were together but there is infidelity or at least the suspicion of it. All my other friends had divorced parents. It’s sad.

Getting back to RPG’s original article, I cannot fathom what is going through the minds of some of these stupid, silly girls, that they can’t remain faithful to a man they supposedly love and trust, instead of always sharpening their eye, on the lookout for something better. Repugnant!

I can say for me; that the only thing I’m missing out on is a way to get away from being a job slave…I think some feminist just had a heart attack because I said that their precious career is nothing but a necessary evil.

If I may, this is one of the things that confuses me about the manosphere. Namely, the idea that a career is a “necessary evil” or that getting up and going to work each day makes one a “wage slave”, and that women are stupid for wanting to have one when they could be staying home cleaning up/cooking/raising children. Which historically, let’s face it, only the upper class women were able to do until relatively recently time-wise, because non-elite women (and children!) used to labor in mines, textile mills, factories, warehouses, etc alongside men.

I understand from experience that putting in long hours and waking up early every day isn’t exactly fun, but it’s hardly an evil of any kind. Especially when one considers that taking care of children, cooking, and cleaning all day can be very thankless…or it was at my house growing up. As the oldest of 6, it was my responsibility to make their breakfasts/bag lunches in the morning, make sure they were getting ready for school, walk them home from the bus stop 2 miles away, help them with homework/projects, help them bathe, wake up when they were sick, do the non-delicate laundry, pick up their toys, help make dinner, vacuum, wash the windows, bring the garbage to the street, shovel our long-ass driveway…On and on and on. (That’s not even counting grocery shopping or taking care of pets.) And because I was a little over 7 years older than my next oldest sibling, it wasn’t as though they could really assist that much until years later, like when I was 15 and they were 8, lol.

But yeah…As FL points out nobody “thanks” your sorry ass for doing any of this household stuff. The kids don’t know to, you’re just their older sister taking care of them. It’d be nice, but they aren’t aware of that. Parents might tell you “good job” once in a great while if you do a chore that’s out of the ordinary like cleaning the gutters or taking the initiative to wash the cars, but for the most part it’s just expected of you, just like bringing home high honor roll each quarter and getting your own shit done is expected. It’s your “job”…except you never get paid for any of it, so not really. I would laugh quite sadly when my friends would brag about the money they made for doing the dishes or walking the dog on their weekly “chore chart” at home. Bitch, please. You get *paid* to clean your own home?! Get outta here with that.

At least at work, there’s the potential to be noticed and thanked for the extra hours you put in. Every job I’ve worked in, I’ve gotten promoted to some managerial position and had bumps in either pay or benefits to compensate for the increased workload/responsibilities. Letters of recommendation, bonuses, being mistaken for the owner due to your level of attentiveness, favorable introductions to higher ups, hearing good things said to your employer by customers because you take pride in doing your job correctly. Even small tips from a single client for going that one extra mile for ’em is enough to brighten the entire rest of my day because someone actually noticed my work and didn’t take it for granted.

Argh.

I do not mean to sound like a feminist here.
I really hope I don’t, since I’m egalitarian and very anti-fem. But this is just one of the things that annoy me, the concept that it’s inherently better to stay at home and do housework/raise kids and everyone should jump for joy at the chance to do it. I think if you’re lucky enough to have a spouse that appreciates the time and effort you put into running a clean, efficient, welcoming household then yes. That sounds absolutely wonderful. For those housewives and househusbands that have such a partner…You win! Congratulations. But otherwise, send my ass to work any day.

…maybe my family was just really sucky and entitled though, because Seamus has utterly blown my mind on numerous occasions these past few months by sincerely thanking me for doing the dishes and vacuuming his home. It’s an extremely weird, but not unpleasant, feeling when he does so. I told him he’s going to physically knock me over one day, if he keeps throwing unexpected “thank yous” out of left field like that, lol.

“Never again” is a valid timeframe.
If you ever feel ready to wrestle that dating beast again, then so be it. But if you never do? Please just make sure you take care of yourself. Do things that make you both happy *and* actualized. You matter just as much as anyone else.

One year, I had Christmas off, for the first ime in seventeen years. I got yelled at for not wearing a coat and tie to dinner when, the previous night, a dress shirt and jeans went unremarked. I left. The next year, I didn’t mind working Christmas.

Ugh. So frickin ridiculous. Like you’re able to read minds? How can you know the rules changed when it’s unspoken?

That’s why, very unfortunately, holidays other than Halloween/Samhain hold little importance to me. I preferred working holidays to spending them with either abusive or bipolar relatives. At least at work, I could be productive, make double wages for the day, and not have to walk on eggshells the entire time.

I think that’s it’s more venting about feeling really unappreciated by the SO, than actually about being a “wage slave”.

Maybe if the guy is stuck in a low paying or crappy job, that’s what it is about. My pay was fairly good, and the work mostly enjoyable – although dangerous at times. I almost always loved work. But when you come home and nothing is done that you had been told was, you begin to feel like a cash machine.

You don’t sound like a feminist.

But if children are involved, it is almost always better if one of them can stay at home with them, instead of being in daycare.

Tarnished wrote: “But this is just one of the things that annoy me, the concept that it’s inherently better to stay at home and do housework/raise kids and everyone should jump for joy at the chance to do it.”

Staying at home is a very worthwhile job, an honorable one, and should be appreciated. I hate it when someone denigrates a woman for being “just” a housewife. If she does a good job, what she does is worth millions. No, it’s priceless.

But with that said, what kind of crummy, dead-end jobs do these guys have, that they can’t see that some jobs have value, purpose, and worth?

There are pencil-pushing jobs that are soul-destroying, and then there are wonderful jobs that could be considered callings or missions in life. I’m thinking of someone who goes to work every day to help save lives in an ER, or a scientist studying ways to cure disease, a schoolteacher who is dedicated and truly helps students. Farmers do worthwhile, needful work. So do construction workers. They are producing something that we all need. If they do a good job, it benefits us all. What’s wrong with someone loving this type of job?

I’m not saying that once kids are in the picture, that it’s better to farm them out to daycare so mom (or dad) can keep their job. The kids come first. But assuming that there are no kids in the picture, there’s nothing odd with a person (man or woman) loving their job, assuming it has some worthwhile and edifying aspect to it, instead of just being a timeclock-punching drudgery type of work.

Hmm. I had another post a few hours ago (another quoting Tarnished) and it was lost in the ether. I got a new IP so I thought maybe it was waiting approval. But this post went through. Is this a WordPress issue?

The West is no so prosperous that we do not NEED anyone or anything other than ourselves. Work for money, farm for food, exercise for health, another as partner.

So it then comes down to WANT.
Do I want to do MEANINGFUL work.
Do I want to spend time cooking or just meet my hunger needs.
Do I want to move/play/sports to feel strong
Do I want to accept the other to share my life.

Unfortunately for any creature, ALL of those things change over time.
The Scientist is bored after the big discovery.
The Craftsman’s hands are worn and stiff.
The Chef is making the same marvel for the upteenth time.
The Captain no longer can keep up with the young bucks.
The Lover sees the wrinkles start to appear
The Companion becomes unthankful of the efforts of thier chosen.

As we move on the trick is to find a new Thing. A new direction. A new purpose.

I have posted this before from Messenger.

FNL You NEED To Watch This. It saved me from the dark place you are in.

Tarn and Sue,
I do enjoy my job and I believe it is a worth while occupation, but if I had the wealth and the choice to retire today; I would do it in about 0.1 milliseconds. There are so many things I would rather be doing.

You guys have different takes on it. I’m cool with that. My view might be different because of my faith/religious beliefs. In my beliefs the only thing is this world that has any lasting value is self improvement and family. So the praise of a manager/supervisor a promotion etc. does not mean diddly. Give me more time at home any day.

FNU LNU,
I have never been married, so I don’t know how badly tyou were used first hand. I do know what it is like to follow your line of thinking. The best advice I can offer is to get out of the house, watch a movie, or doo soething unsual to take your mind off things.
That is enough for now. Just get out of your rut.
From my perspective, it sounds like you gave one hundred percent. You can’t do any more.

goFigure wrote: “I do enjoy my job and I believe it is a worth while occupation, but if I had the wealth and the choice to retire today; I would do it in about 0.1 milliseconds. There are so many things I would rather be doing.”

I think a lot of people feel the same way. A lot of us would prefer to live a life where we’re our own boss and can make our own schedule. But we’d still be doing something. Maybe we’d pursue our “dream career” (opera singing? gardening? travel photography? whatever). We wouldn’t lounge by the pool all day, drinking martinis and going to parties. Not having any ambition or purpose sounds bleak to me, and that’s what a life without “work” is—boring and bleak.

I love making widgets. If I was independently wealthy, I’d still make them. I’d tailor my schedule to allow plenty of time for family, but I can’t imagine a life of not making widgets. God gives us talents and abilities and we are supposed to do something with them.

A man worthy of the name is driven to conquer and /or achieve individual sovereignty. There isnt much left to conquer, and what there is left requires extreme abilities, like extreme intelligence to come up the cure to cancer or extreme athletic abilities to conquer the 100 meter dash

Individual masculine sovereignty

In this world we are either a pimp, a ho or a trick
If you work for someone else you’re a ho
If you fall for everyone’s marketing, indoctrination and propaganda you are a trick. A dupe. The lowest of the low, the most navies, the most used etc

If you see through the bullshit, understand reality and make your money off ho’s and tricks you are a pimp.

Being thanked is for women and kids. Sovereign men live to be just that

The most realistic way for a man to achieve pimp status ie individual masculine sovereignty is to be a red pill business owner.

A man who is red pill… sees the truth of the world & has his own dog shit scooping business has a healthier soul then some trick making 100k a year as a corporate cog. The one lives in reality and on his own terms, the other is a trick who gets pimped out on the side

Generally women are born slaves and cannot grasps the sorvgein man concept. Being a fortune 500 company ho or a housewife, either way their is no sovereignty, though there is much more dignity in being fucked by one man then being a corporate pass around whore. Women aren’t really about one man either so the feminist call to be a corporate ho hits home, and gives them the illusion of sovereignty

I finally got around to reading the comments on that Rational Male post. Correction, I started reading the comments, but there were too many, too long, but a few made me chuckle, they were so far out there. (Don’t worry, I didn’t leave any comments over there.)

What’s this talk about corporate wage slaves? That doesn’t sound so attractive to me. Many people would prefer, if they had a choice, to work for themselves and be their own boss. There are more opportunities than ever for this, thanks to being able to work remotely. Housewives could spend whatever free time they have pursuing something that could become a money-maker for them in the future. Or perhaps they could be cultivating some more fulfilling hobbies. There’s no excuse to get bored or feel frustrated and isolated, with so much to do! I don’t understand why anyone would waste too much time gossiping or creating drama on Facebook when there are much better and more productive ways to spend one’s free time.

Tarn, I’ve experienced enough of the working world to know that you don’t always get thanked or even promoted when you’ve put in the extra hours and prioritized your work goals. Your boss my fail you in that way – he may promote someone who works half as much as you and has the worst attitude about it. Or you may end up working for an unethical boss that fires you when they find out you know what they’re doing. I’m sure you know all this… that sometimes it’s not “fair,” or equal.

Being a stay at home mom and wife can seem like a thankless job in that way too, but it’s not really. I think you’re experience was neglect 😦 – you should never have had to fill that role of a parent so young. Maybe it skewed your thinking about how you’d actually feel in that role if you had been ready and if they’d been your own kids, and you had a loving partner that helped.

Being an adult and doing all those things you mentioned, I actually love it and see it as doing it for people I love. Yea they can’t really thank you when they’re really young, but even my oldest is growing more thankful and starting to see how much we both sacrifice for them and how much we show them we love them. Only an adult can really I think enjoy that kind of constant sacrifice though – a child shouldn’t have to experience that weight and responsibility so young, or be expected to enjoy it or see the longterm results of their efforts.

As a parent, it’s just so different. I can mentally picture where I want to be 20 years from now when I’m 50. And keeping that picture in mind when relating to my kids or husband is crucial to maintaining perspective of what life is really all about. I want to be a happy grandma, I’m excited about the idea of seeing my boys have their own children. We talk about those things too… and it helps put all the thankless sacrifice in perspective.

Another from Messenger on Men’s contentment in being alone.
They don’t make movies like Jeremiah Johnson about women mountain men.
Robert Redford at the peak of his early career makes a movie celebrating a man alone in the wilderness. Not being saved from it like modern rescue movie, a man purposely moving into the depths of Wyoming alone just because.

This is the quiet power of MGTOW. Men not only can tolerate being alone, many revell in it, prefer the quiet and simplicity.

Women, with rare exceptions, despise being alone. But unless they individually and collectively wise up and change their attitudes, they better get used to being alone.

p.s. the old “But you’ll die alone.” Bull Shit. Bull Shit Bull Shit
In modern life how many die at home with their spouse. You are going to live out your last 3-5 years in a home or hospital seperated from family, for all intents…Alone.

@ Stephanie and Ton, I certainly saw both of what you describe in the job market. At one time if one worked hard and did their job, they could expect to be rewarded by their employer. Anymore, everyone is expendable. How hard you work, how loyal you are, etc. may help but it is no protection from the sudden pink slip. That’s why I like working for myself, it’s at least somewhat in my hands…and based on performance. Of course I miss the days where I left it behind at the office, knew what my check would be every two weeks, etc. The social contract between employees and employers was broken in the late 80s. Gone are the days of longterm employment and retirement. Kindof like the social contract between the sexes was broken… seems almost like loyalty is for fools these days…except when it isn’t.

@ David indeed, and look how much things have changed in the past 20-30 years. Technology we could not have imagined now such a part of daily life we cannot imagine being without it. In 30 years??? Who knows! But if I have learned anything it is that time passes quicker than one thinks, good to be thinking ahead and to let that vision of the future as part of a successful and loving family can sustain one thru tough times indeed. Big picture.

I did not say there is anything wrong with a woman (or a man, in my honest opinion) deciding to devote their time to their children, home, and family. If that’s what they truly want, I say go for it. Doing so is a very worthy endeavor, even more so if they are appreciated for their labors.

That being said, *I* disliked that role. Very, very much. As such I consider myself to have served my time “parenting” via my siblings and cousins, not to mention the numerous babysitting jobs I had from age 12-17. I love kids, think they’re amazing little people, enjoy being around them…but only because I can give them back, lol.

And yes, you can be hired by an employer who treats you like crap. One of my previous bosses took advantage of the fact that I was his one unmarried employee and would deliberately put me on cover shifts that made it extremely difficult to get to my classes on time. I had a supervisor at the next job who hated me from day 1, and created a pretty hostile work environment before he quit. So yeah, it’s not a guarantee that a job will be gratifying.

But I can resign from a job if it’s thankless or turns out to be not at all what I want to do with my life. I wouldn’t be morally able to do that with a family or offspring. Hence why I have placed my eggs in the Career basket instead, and will hopefully be able to move ’em to the Travel basket someday as well.

Everyone should do their best to be introspective, and thus aware of their personality type + life goals.

Tarnished: “Everyone should do their best to be introspective, and thus aware of their personality type + life goals.”

I absolutely agree.

Your feelings about kids is not completely unique. I’ve heard of other people (who had to “raise” their younger siblings) feel like they’re “done” with that and don’t have the urge to have their own. It’s understandable.

My family contains maiden aunts and even non-blood related loved ones who will ALWAYS be part of the family unit and have not been left all alone in their elderly years. It depends on the family, I guess.

Recently I was having a conversation with someone else about a mutual friend, who has such an amazing network of friends and family members. “She’s always giving back and helping other people, and that’s why they are there to help her.” is the conclusion we came to. This isn’t restricted to only people with kids. If Auntie Mabel is always there to help, always there at family gatherings, gives wonderful gifts and is present and active in the lives of the family, why wouldn’t the nieces and nephews help out Auntie Mabel when she’s old and vulnerable?

Feminists and red pillers are opposite extremes neither of which are healthy nor will they resolve the problems between men and women. Also men like to play the dominance game with other men and while red pillers consider these men as alphas they are in reality sociopathic bullies. Daring to bring up the fact that men are far more violent and abusive towards other males as opposed towards women. Is one of the quickest ways to get banned from a mhrm website.