I dont care if they are crossed with 2 breeds or 100 breeds they are still mutts.

I would suggest that a "2 breed mutt" is not the same as a "100 breed mutt." For example, if there is such a thing as "hybrid vigor," it would be more likely to apply to the "100 breed mutt." But if you want to paint everything with the same brush, by all means...

IMO there are mutts and purebreds, until a group starts to breed true and have stopped adding new breeds into the mix they are mutts. Which is why I dont define between a "hybrid" and a "cur" they are both mutts, dogs whos parents were not the same breed.

As for the many generation mutts being healthier I would say that had to do with natural selection, the strongest survive and get to breed, usually meaning the offspring is healthier. Usually these multi generation dogs are from several different breeds, not just 2, and had little human intervention. These are the street dogs, they get breeds added in when someones pet escapes or is abandoned, but only the strongest tend to survive and breed. All this, by definition, is natural selection: "A process in nature in which organisms possessing certain genotypic characteristics that make them better adjusted to an environment tend to survive, reproduce, increase in number or frequency, and therefore, are able to transmit and perpetuate their essential genotypic qualities to succeeding generations."

To me you only get true hybrids when you cross animals of different species, dogs are all of the same species.

"A process in nature in which organisms possessing certain genotypic characteristics that make them better adjusted to an environment tend to survive, reproduce, increase in number or frequency, and therefore, are able to transmit and perpetuate their essential genotypic qualities to succeeding generations."

Having read this thread, from the start, I am so pleased that all of the 15 dogs I have had, mostly pures, some mixed breed and a Bitza were all very well behaved and polite unlike some of the Posters here.

You should a lesson from your Dogs.

Everyone is entitled to an opinion BUT remember everyone is entitled to Respect, remember that and the World will be a better place.

The Moderators on this Forum need to keep things in line. It's getting offensive.

Quote by Ruffian"You were trying to lead me to Natural Selection? When did I dispute natural selection"?

Well I think there are several times that you suggested that Hybrid Vigor defined as natural selection was folly. Let me point out a couple of examples.

I asked you in a previous post if:

Quote by DeputyDog B) Cur dogs, and let define them, the progeny of any two dogs of very mixed and unknown lineage are not any more vigorous than pedigree dogs?

I think that this by definition is an example of natural selection yet you did not acknowledge this. That's why in the following post I posted a question smiley (to be polite).

Also ...

Quote by ruffian "There are mutts and there are purebreds, I dont care if they are crossed with 2 breeds or 100 breeds they are still mutts."

This was never debated and I agree. My question to you was if you personally believe that cur dogs are any more vigorous than pedigree dogs and your response was:

Quote by Ruffian"IMO there are mutts and purebreds, until a group starts to breed true and have stopped adding new breeds into the mix they are mutts. Which is why I dont define between a "hybrid" and a "cur" they are both mutts, dogs whos parents were not the same breed."

It seems that you do believe that cur dogs are more vigorous via natural selection. So why does it appear that this is so hard for you to accept?

could you to just agree to disagree or whatever. Really neither of you is getting anywhere. I think you both have great points. The reality is no matter how hard we try all dogs can have some sort of issue. Even well breed dogs can have genetic problem sneak in. When we talk genetic, it really is up to the genes to decide what they are going to do, and I for one don't belive a mixed breed is any better then a purebred dog. A mix only needs on parent to cause a problem, no matter how many other breeds are included in the gene pool.

I belive it has more to do with were the mix came from. I belive the correct statement would be more along the lines of a street cross is healthier then a people bred cross. I don't think pure or mutt makes a difference. I think it is breeders who make a difference by tracing lines and doing the best they can to provide healthy dogs.

DNA is only as good as the lab, and we still have a lot to learn about canine DNA. There are false positives and false negitives all the time. No one is perfect, and no dog is better then the other. They all deserve love and companionship, no matter what background they come from.

Yeah, I think I'll get another fish.... I can't seem to find the "perfect" breed. There are good/bad points about all breeds. I thought the goldendoodle fit exactly what I wanted... until I read these comments.

Yeah, I think I'll get another fish.... I can't seem to find the "perfect" breed. There are good/bad points about all breeds. I thought the goldendoodle fit exactly what I wanted... until I read these comments.

Why don't you get a lab, or a boxer? They're great family dogs. If it's the shedding you are worried about then why not a poodle? They're smart to boot! There is no perfect breed and they all have their health issues. You just have to decide what you are going to put up with.

In order to really enjoy a dog, one doesn't merely try to train him to be semi human. The point of it is to open oneself to the possibility of becoming partly a dog. ~Edward Hoagland

I think you should look into Standard Poodles. If you or anyone else thinks "goldendoodles or labradoodles" don't shed, you are kidding yourself. The nonshedding lab/poodle, golden/poodle crosses are the minority and they require lots of grooming, whether they shed or not. (More than Poodles!)