That's the point, Sheba. Civil people automatically select words and meanings so as not to offend and social correctness in a condition neccesary to effect orderly communication.Political Correctness is otherwise. It seeks control.

I'm afraid I can't follow the conversation very well, but I'm glad you both agree.

If I say something, you censure it as politically correct, how then is that not seeking to control my speech? The interesting thing about the term is that it started out in leftist contexts where somebody's rhetoric would be labeled politically correct as a censure that the person was just parroting ideas without actually understanding them. But, now it has mainly be adopted by the right as a way to control speech that involves ideas that are at variance with those who wish to censure.

What most people dismiss as PC, I think falls under the old-fashioned concept of being polite. It really does not matter to me if you want to shout blasons populaires in a crowded theater. Go for it. Another thing termed PC is euphemism. Again, if you want to say somebody croaked to their widow, that's your prerogative, but I'll err with a little euphemism.

If I say something, you censure it as politically correct, how then is that not seeking to control my speech? The interesting thing about the term is that it started out in leftist contexts where somebody's rhetoric would be labeled politically correct as a censure that the person was just parroting ideas without actually understanding them. But, now it has mainly be adopted by the right as a way to control speech that involves ideas that are at variance with those who wish to censure.

What most people dismiss as PC, I think falls under the old-fashioned concept of being polite. It really does not matter to me if you want to shout blasons populaires in a crowded theater. Go for it. Another thing termed PC is euphemism. Again, if you want to say somebody croaked to their widow, that's your prerogative, but I'll err with a little euphemism.

“Don't you see the whole aim of Newspeak is to narrow the language of thought? In the end we shall make thoughtcrime literally impossible because there will be no words in which to express it”__________________________ George Orwell, 1984

And don't you see, zmjezhd, that the distinctions between Left and Right political beliefs are contrived and are designed to categorize into groups the non-thinking man. You know, sorta like but not like when we join together as Americans to oppose those wish us dead.

But reality is different. Political Correctness even or especially when encoded into law has but a single objective: Control.

the distinctions between Left and Right political beliefs are contrived and are designed to categorize into groups the non-thinking man. You know, sorta like but not like when we join together as Americans to oppose those wish us dead.

It's not just left and right (or Left and Right). Don't you see that all ideologies, especially those acquired shortly after birth, and which remain with us mainly un-examined can be a short-circuiting of reason. In fact, they are the opposite of rational argument. But one's own ideologies are usually not so classified. I have a philosophy of life, you have an ideology un-examined and patently false. Orwell's "thoughtcrime" (which you no doubt identify with some US laws on hate crimes) are an extreme form of the Sapir-Whorf hypothesis. That language controls thought is a nice lengthy topic to discuss on a words-related board, but why do I have the sneaky suspicion that what you really want to discuss is Politicks (intentionally thus spelled with lofty capital letter and archaic 'k' attached to raise its level to a classical argument).

What are laws, if not something to control the people who constitute Society. "What do you mean I cannot strange some fool in a parking lot because she parked across two spaces? Stop trying to control me. You're not the boss of me!" You can argue that a law is unjust, but not on the grounds that it is trying to control you or anybody else. (Although the latter is usually not so much worried about.)

Oh, and for the record, Orwell was a fine writer, and although I liked his non-fiction better (i.e., Down and Out in Paris and London and Homage to Catalonia), he knew diddly-squat about language or how it works.

It's not just left and right. Don't you see that all ideologies, especially those acquired shortly after birth, and which remain with us mainly un-examined can be a short-circuiting of reason. In fact, they are the opposite of rational argument. But one's own ideologies are usually not so classified. I have a philosophy of life, you have an ideology un-examined and patently false.

In youth we inherit the collective wisdom of those who have gone before us and in late youth we usually rebel and imitate our radical pea-headed professors such as those who design and ban the words from our achivement tests. The following words were banned by the NYC Board of Education NYC because... only-God-knows-why:

•Abuse (physical, sexual, emotional, or psychological)•Alcohol (beer and liquor), tobacco, or drugs•Birthday celebrations (and birthdays)•Cancer (and other diseases)•Catastrophes/disasters (tsunamis and hurricanes)•Celebrities•Children dealing with serious issues•Cigarettes (and other smoking paraphernalia)•Computers in the home (acceptable in a school or librarysetting)•Crime•Death and disease•Divorce•Evolution•Expensive gifts, vacations, and prizes•Gambling •Halloween•Homelessness•Homes with swimming pools•Hunting•Junk food•In-depth discussions of sports that require prior knowledge•Loss of employment•Nuclear weapons•Occult topics (i.e. fortune-telling)•Parapsychology•Politics•Pornography•Poverty•Rap Music•Religion•Religious holidays and festivals (including but not limited to Christmas, Yom Kippur, and Ramadan)•Rock-and-Roll music•Running away•Sex•Slavery•Terrorism•Television and video games (excessive use)•Traumatic material (including material that may be particularly upsetting such as animal shelters)•Vermin (rats and roaches)•Violence•War and bloodshed•Weapons (guns, knives, etc.)•Witchcraft, sorcery, etc.---

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