A-kid, The two handed retrieve is pretty much standard for northeast FFers, although it is used less down in FL and points south. If you look closely at the photos on the recent report I posted on the Jersey surf, you can see Frederick and I both fishing with this retrieve. It was a surprise bumping into you on the FL Sportsman forum - I guess I shouldn't be surprised considering how fascinated you are with salt FFing. That forum is, I think, one of the largest (if not THE largest) fishing forum on the www. There are some very experienced salt FFers there who really know their game. I post on that site on occasion, usually when I'm gearing up for a trip to the Keys.

I get enough high blood pressure here without getting into those tangles on that site. hehe Have to look more closely at the pics.

Another question-

Why is it that people use a somewhat tapered leader with a shock tippet that is much larger diameter toward the end? I mean I know it is to reduce cuts and abrasions on the leaders but why not just have the whole leader a large diameter?

I guess the spook factor. But that seems counter intuitive because the last section of the leader is the largest- does'nt that spook them?

A shock tippet is heavier than the preceding section of tippet to ensure that there is a "weak link" in the overall leader that is less than the breaking strength of the backing. Think about it: If your shock tippet is 50lbs and the rest of the leader is just as strong, and your backing is 30lb test - when a big fish runs off into your backing and you break him off, the break will occur in the backing and you'll lose your entire fly line. Always ensure that your leader has a section with a lower breaking strength than your backing. This also true for snags. If you snag the bottom and you have a tippet without this weak link, you risk breaking off the entire fly line or shooting head rather than just losing the fly and shocker. All my salt fly reels have 30lb backing and I always have leaders with a section maxing out at 20lb test (or less). This weaker length of leader usually precedes the shock tippet and is known as "class tippet." This is a term not often used in freshwater FFing because most fresh guys don't use shock tippets. Most salt guys use a class tippet of 20lb (this is the standard for most tarpon fishing) as the International Game Fish Association has decreed that in order to be considered FFing by the "rules" all leaders must have a class tippet that maxes out at 20lb test. Of course, one can certainly deviate from this (and some shark and tuna guys certainly do) but 20lb has become something of the standard for salt fly fishing.

I have fished quite a bit (limited salt, steelhead, all kinds of trout, largemouths) and have yet to really be into my backing. Okay last year one steel ran it out into a couple feet of backing but I ran down the bank after him and reeled him in.

Look forward to getting into my backing.

Do you guys get into your backing? If so, how often? Any particular species that does that regularly- beside Tarpon?

In over 30 years of FFing in PA I have only had one trout go into my backing (a 21" brown, Yellow Breeches, 1985). In this state, the only fish that will consistently pull into backing are big river carp. I'd imagine some steelhead in heavy flows will do it pretty easily. Guys who fish the upper Delaware for wild rainbows with fine tippet and soft set clicker drags probably see backing on occasion too.In northest saltwater fishing, false albacore will go there. Stripers and bluefish usually won't. Seeing backing is much more common in Florida. In addition to tarpon, other inshore fish that will almost always do this include bonefish, permit, jacks, large cudas, large redfish, and sharks over 3' long. Beware the stories about fish taking "hundreds" of yards of backing. I think in most cases these are exagerrations or fishermen who simply don't know how to fight a fish. I've never had a bonefish take what I think is more than maybe 75 yards of backing. If you've got over 200 yards of backing you should never get spooled (as long as you can follow the fish). The famous salt FFer, Chico Fernandez (who catches a LOT of flats species every year) did an experiment with backing marked at 100 yards. After over a year of fishing and many fish caught (including tarpon and dolphin), he finally hooked a large shark over 100 lbs that pulled the backing past the 100 yard mark. The common claim that bonefish routinely run over 300 yards is bunk.

Yeah, the Fat Alberts will absolutely get backing, Especially off Harker's. The 3 impressing things about that are:1) You're hooking most within 30 feet of the boat.2) they only weigh 10-14 pounds on average.3) most people use 9 or 10 weights , at least those who don't enjoy the sound of shattering graphite do!

BTW: That's another good reason to use lighter leaders/tippet. It saves many a rod for the novice at fighting saltwater fish.

I'm from PA and grew up bass and trout fishing here, but I lived in SC for 8 years. I stalked reds. fished many times for albies and caught stripers in the rivers around Columbia. My family lives in SW Florida and I've fished for snook, jacks and baby tarpon odd and on for the better part of 20 years.

The point to this is fishting saltwater fish is a totally different game from fighting trout or bass. I learned a lot about how and when to apply pressure. For example, after 6 years in SC I went down to the Congaree River after work one late April evening. I knew the stripers were running up from Santee Cooper. I fished for maybe 15 minutes with a 2/0 chartreuse 1/2 & 1/2 using an 8 WT. I hooked a heavy striper and landed it an about 10 minutes.

I'm not braggin. I'm just saying it's a skill that can me learned, but not by fighting trout. Don't get me wrong, I love trout fishing. that's what I do 80% of the time. It's just different.

(Man, that's one ulgy shirt I'm wearing!)

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Posted on: 2009/12/4 17:22

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We did not inherit the land from our fathers, we are borrowing from our children.

I fish in Naples - Bonita area. Best advice: get a guide. You can get some action wading the beaches and into some of the passes (watch the tides so you don't get stranded or swept out), but it gets kinda tough without a boat. If you can get one of the guys on the Florida board to take you out, you'll be golden.

I fished for years at Lover's Key, Wiggin's Pass and Naples harbor out of a 10' plastic boat with a 3 hp gas and a 30 lb.trolling motor. It was my dad's rig (he a cheap SOB). We caught a TON of fish out of that thing.

Nothing like fishing 8 PM - 8 AM under the lights in the harbor then surfing the wakes of those multi-million dollar yachts blasting through the "no wake zones". The beautiful thins was catching the heck out of snook, jacks and baby tarpon all night out of that cheap boat while casting to dock where 50 foot yachts were kept. The houses at Port Royal are ridiculous. Multi-million dollar houses that are occupied 4-5 months a year.

Someone's making money.

Sorry to get off topic, but I've bee working my a$$ off for the last few months and doing very little fishing. I just enjoyed "casting back" to fond memories.

I'm going a little stir-crazy.

Posted on: 2009/12/4 19:13

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We did not inherit the land from our fathers, we are borrowing from our children.