So I got some Watchtower magazines. I would like to see what you have to say about this article. It's been years since I read any of their articles, but now that I'm examining my previous cult I find I don't want to do this alone. Can anyone else help me rip this apart?

Quote: Brett Schenck is a retired environmental consultant in the United States. He studied the interdependency of plants, animals, and the environment. Why does he believe in a Creator? Awake! asked him about his science and his faith.

What is your background?

My father was a mechanical engineer. He often talked enthusiastically to me about math and science. As a boy, I was fascinated by the plants and animals in the creeks and pools near my home in New Paris, Ohio, U.S.A. So when I went to Purdue University, I chose to study ecology.

Did religion interest you?

Yes, it did. Dad encouraged me to study our Lutheran religion. I studied Koine (common) Greek, one of the languages in which the Bible was first written. I developed deep respect for the Bible.

How did you view the theory of evolution?

My church accepted it. My colleagues believed it. So I never questioned it. But I also believed in God. I had a foggy notion that the two beliefs were compatible. Although I respected the Bible, I didn’t think it came from God.

What made you change your view of the Bible?

Two of Jehovah’s Witnesses, Steve and Sandy, visited my wife, Debbie, and me. They showed us that the Bible, though not a science textbook, is scientifically accurate. For example, it says of God: “There is One who is dwelling above the circle of the earth.” (Isaiah 40:22) It also says: “He is . . . hanging the earth upon nothing.” (Job 26:7) At that time, I was using satellite photographs to study ecology, so these scriptures impressed me. They were written long before anyone photographed the circle of the earth hanging on nothing. As my wife and I studied the Bible with Steve and Sandy, I learned of prophecies that had come true, advice that works, and explanations that satisfied me. Gradually, I became convinced that the Bible is the Word of God.

When did you change your mind about the origin of life?

Eventually, Steve showed me the Bible’s clear statement: “Jehovah God proceeded to form the man out of dust from the ground.” (Genesis 2:7) The first man has a documented life history. This raised the question: Is the Bible in harmony with scientific facts? Steve encouraged me to research the matter, so I did.

What did you learn about evolution?

Many things. To mention just one, the evolution theory attempts to explain the origin of species. Living things are made up of efficient organs, such as the heart, lungs, and eyes. Also, at the microscopic level, we see marvelously designed ‘machines’ within cells. Where do the designs for those come from? Evolutionists claim that the best mechanisms are automatically selected because the living things that have them survive better. But that idea does not answer the question: Where do the mechanisms come from? I learned that many scientists do not believe that the evolution theory answers that question. A professor of zoology confided to me that he did not believe any of the theories of evolution. However, he did not air his views for fear of losing his job.

Does your knowledge of ecology strengthen your faith?

Yes, it does. My work involved studying how living things depend on each other. On earth, all living things depend on something else. Consider flowers and bees, for example. The color, fragrance, nectar, and structure of flowers are designed to attract bees and to sprinkle them with pollen. Bees are designed to extract nectar and to take one flower’s pollen to another plant for fertilization. Clearly, the flowers and bees are designed to supply what the other needs.

‘The resilience of the entire system of life on earth convinces me that life was designed by God’

In an ecosystem, we see interdependence on a vast scale. An ecosystem is an environment with a community of perhaps thousands of types of animals, plants, bacteria, and fungi. All animals depend on plants for food and oxygen, and most flowering plants depend on animals. Although ecosystems are exceedingly complex and the organisms in them are fragile, they may continue surviving for millennia. Even after damage by pollution, once the source of pollution is gone, a complex ecosystem soon develops again. When I think about the resilience of the entire system of life on earth, I am convinced that life was designed by God.

Why did you become one of Jehovah’s Witnesses?

I was deeply concerned about the way human society is ruining the environment. I knew that although ecosystems are resilient, they are not indestructible. I learned from Jehovah’s Witnesses that, according to the Scriptures, God will “bring to ruin those ruining the earth.” (Revelation 11:18) Those words were important to me. As I continued studying the Bible, I gradually realized that the hope that the Bible presents is sure.

I enjoy sharing my beliefs with others, and I have studied the Bible with some scientists. At age 55, I took early retirement to spend more time helping people to understand the Creator of life and his purpose for our magnificent earth.

If you read this far, I salute you! (not a salute, but we don't have that emoticon on here. Unless you could but that's more like a salute towards Hitler. )

(26-04-2013 04:10 PM)cheapthrillseaker Wrote: Two of Jehovah’s Witnesses, Steve and Sandy, visited my wife, Debbie, and me. They showed us that the Bible, though not a science textbook, is scientifically accurate. For example, it says of God: “There is One who is dwelling above the circle of the earth.” (Isaiah 40:22) It also says: “He is . . . hanging the earth upon nothing.” (Job 26:7)

I only made it as far as here before my ADD kicked in. Either that or I was laughing so hard I couldn't stop to read the rest.

(26-04-2013 04:10 PM)cheapthrillseaker Wrote: So I got some Watchtower magazines. I would like to see what you have to say about this article. It's been years since I read any of their articles, but now that I'm examining my previous cult I find I don't want to do this alone. Can anyone else help me rip this apart?

Quote: Brett Schenck is a retired environmental consultant in the United States. He studied the interdependency of plants, animals, and the environment. Why does he believe in a Creator? Awake! asked him about his science and his faith.

What is your background?

My father was a mechanical engineer. He often talked enthusiastically to me about math and science. As a boy, I was fascinated by the plants and animals in the creeks and pools near my home in New Paris, Ohio, U.S.A. So when I went to Purdue University, I chose to study ecology.

Did religion interest you?

Yes, it did. Dad encouraged me to study our Lutheran religion. I studied Koine (common) Greek, one of the languages in which the Bible was first written. I developed deep respect for the Bible.

How did you view the theory of evolution?

My church accepted it. My colleagues believed it. So I never questioned it. But I also believed in God. I had a foggy notion that the two beliefs were compatible. Although I respected the Bible, I didn’t think it came from God.

What made you change your view of the Bible?

Two of Jehovah’s Witnesses, Steve and Sandy, visited my wife, Debbie, and me. They showed us that the Bible, though not a science textbook, is scientifically accurate. For example, it says of God: “There is One who is dwelling above the circle of the earth.” (Isaiah 40:22) It also says: “He is . . . hanging the earth upon nothing.” (Job 26:7) At that time, I was using satellite photographs to study ecology, so these scriptures impressed me. They were written long before anyone photographed the circle of the earth hanging on nothing. As my wife and I studied the Bible with Steve and Sandy, I learned of prophecies that had come true, advice that works, and explanations that satisfied me. Gradually, I became convinced that the Bible is the Word of God.

When did you change your mind about the origin of life?

Eventually, Steve showed me the Bible’s clear statement: “Jehovah God proceeded to form the man out of dust from the ground.” (Genesis 2:7) The first man has a documented life history. This raised the question: Is the Bible in harmony with scientific facts? Steve encouraged me to research the matter, so I did.

What did you learn about evolution?

Many things. To mention just one, the evolution theory attempts to explain the origin of species. Living things are made up of efficient organs, such as the heart, lungs, and eyes. Also, at the microscopic level, we see marvelously designed ‘machines’ within cells. Where do the designs for those come from? Evolutionists claim that the best mechanisms are automatically selected because the living things that have them survive better. But that idea does not answer the question: Where do the mechanisms come from? I learned that many scientists do not believe that the evolution theory answers that question. A professor of zoology confided to me that he did not believe any of the theories of evolution. However, he did not air his views for fear of losing his job.

Does your knowledge of ecology strengthen your faith?

Yes, it does. My work involved studying how living things depend on each other. On earth, all living things depend on something else. Consider flowers and bees, for example. The color, fragrance, nectar, and structure of flowers are designed to attract bees and to sprinkle them with pollen. Bees are designed to extract nectar and to take one flower’s pollen to another plant for fertilization. Clearly, the flowers and bees are designed to supply what the other needs.

‘The resilience of the entire system of life on earth convinces me that life was designed by God’

In an ecosystem, we see interdependence on a vast scale. An ecosystem is an environment with a community of perhaps thousands of types of animals, plants, bacteria, and fungi. All animals depend on plants for food and oxygen, and most flowering plants depend on animals. Although ecosystems are exceedingly complex and the organisms in them are fragile, they may continue surviving for millennia. Even after damage by pollution, once the source of pollution is gone, a complex ecosystem soon develops again. When I think about the resilience of the entire system of life on earth, I am convinced that life was designed by God.

Why did you become one of Jehovah’s Witnesses?

I was deeply concerned about the way human society is ruining the environment. I knew that although ecosystems are resilient, they are not indestructible. I learned from Jehovah’s Witnesses that, according to the Scriptures, God will “bring to ruin those ruining the earth.” (Revelation 11:18) Those words were important to me. As I continued studying the Bible, I gradually realized that the hope that the Bible presents is sure.

I enjoy sharing my beliefs with others, and I have studied the Bible with some scientists. At age 55, I took early retirement to spend more time helping people to understand the Creator of life and his purpose for our magnificent earth.

If you read this far, I salute you! (not a salute, but we don't have that emoticon on here. Unless you could but that's more like a salute towards Hitler. )

I used to get watchtower stuff and they would have an action trading card of some biblical figure. It's scary what they believe but thats a cult for ya.

(31-07-2014 04:37 PM)Luminon Wrote: America is full of guns, but they're useless, because nobody has the courage to shoot an IRS agent in self-defense

(26-04-2013 04:10 PM)cheapthrillseaker Wrote: So I got some Watchtower magazines. I would like to see what you have to say about this article. It's been years since I read any of their articles, but now that I'm examining my previous cult I find I don't want to do this alone. Can anyone else help me rip this apart?

Sure. That'll be $19.959995

Quote: Brett Schenck is a retired environmental consultant in the United States. He studied the interdependency of plants, animals, and the environment. Why does he believe in a Creator? Awake! asked him about his science and his faith.

What is your background?

My father was a mechanical engineer. He often talked enthusiastically to me about math and science. As a boy, I was fascinated by the plants and animals in the creeks and pools near my home in New Paris, Ohio, U.S.A. So when I went to Purdue University, I chose to study ecology.

Did religion interest you?

Yes, it did.

Uh-oh... let the downward spiral begin...

Quote:Dad encouraged me to study our Lutheran religion. I studied Koine (common) Greek, one of the languages in which the Bible was first written. I developed deep respect for the Bible.

How did you view the theory of evolution?

My church accepted it. My colleagues believed it. So I never questioned it. But I also believed in God. I had a foggy notion that the two beliefs were compatible. Although I respected the Bible, I didn’t think it came from God.

What made you change your view of the Bible?

Two of Jehovah’s Witnesses, Steve and Sandy, visited my wife, Debbie, and me. They showed us that the Bible, though not a science textbook, is scientifically accurate.

So... you don't get yer science education from a scientist... hmmm...

Quote: For example, it says of God: “There is One who is dwelling above the circle of the earth.” (Isaiah 40:22)

we all live on a blue-white disk
a blue-white disk
What , god doesn't know "oblate spheroid?" That's the kinda thing that happens when ya don't get yer science from scientists...

Quote: It also says: “He is . . . hanging the earth upon nothing.” (Job 26:7)

Pillars of nothingness. Vacuum is not nothing, falling is not hanging.

Quote:At that time, I was using satellite photographs to study ecology, so these scriptures impressed me. They were written long before anyone photographed the circle of the earth hanging on nothing. As my wife and I studied the Bible with Steve and Sandy, I learned of prophecies that had come true

...as opposed to the ones that didn't...

Quote:advice that works

Blood on the lintel, sackcloth and ashes... I do that every day.

Quote:and explanations that satisfied me.

Yeah! Cause thinking' hard!

Quote:Gradually, I became convinced that the Bible is the Word of God.

All words are the words of god. He's all Omni like that. Like "all these words are English words;" and just as redundant and unnecessary. Unless, of course... DA..DAH... god is lying!
<_<
>_>
Somebody's lying...

Quote:When did you change your mind about the origin of life?

When my brain left my body...

Quote:Eventually, Steve showed me the Bible’s clear statement: “Jehovah God proceeded to form the man out of dust from the ground.” (Genesis 2:7)

Quote:This raised the question: Is the Bible in harmony with scientific facts?

Not even a little bit. This is why self-analysis is always a good thing. Catching yourself seriously considering absurd question is a good sign you're on the slippery slope towards accepting absurd answers

Quote: Steve encouraged me to research the matter, so I did.

Yeah... no. Going to believers to support your own conformation bias... not exactly research...

Quote:What did you learn about evolution?

I'm thinking the term should have been "unlearn..."

Quote:Many things. To mention just one, the evolution theory attempts to explain the origin of species. Living things are made up of efficient organs, such as the heart, lungs, and eyes. Also, at the microscopic level, we see marvelously designed ‘machines’ within cells.

See what happens? Somebody snuck a "designer" into your worldview, and alla sudden, everything's a design.
I know. 'Cause when I look in there, there's Gwynnies. I love my Gwynnies!

Wait, what?

Quote:Where do the designs for those come from?

From your brain, dummy. That's what conformation bias is...

Quote:Evolutionists claim that the best mechanisms are automatically selected because the living things that have them survive better. But that idea does not answer the question: Where do the mechanisms come from?

See above. The answer ain't gonna change no matter how many times you ask the question

Quote:I learned

That hasn't been demonstrated...

Quote:that many scientists do not believe that the evolution theory answers that question.

Perhaps... I don't know, maybe the fact that itis not an evolutionary question has something to do with it? I don't know... just throwing it out there...

Quote:A professor of zoology confided to me that he did not believe any of the theories of evolution. However, he did not air his views for fear of losing his job.

Well, duh... because I always ask a scientist who doesn't believe in science about my science. And I always ask just one.

Quote:Does your knowledge of ecology strengthen your faith?

Yes, it does. My work involved studying how living things depend on each other. On earth, all living things depend on something else. Consider flowers and bees, for example. The color, fragrance, nectar, and structure of flowers are designed to attract bees and to sprinkle them with pollen. Bees are designed to extract nectar and to take one flower’s pollen to another plant for fertilization. Clearly, the flowers and bees are designed to supply what the other needs.

Clearly.
And the corpse flower smells like... you know, to attract bees? Cause, you know, design?

Quote:‘The resilience of the entire system of life on earth convinces me that life was designed by God’

No. That would be sloppy and uncritical thinking.

Quote:In an ecosystem, we see interdependence on a vast scale. An ecosystem is an environment with a community of perhaps thousands of types of animals, plants, bacteria, and fungi. All animals depend on plants for food and oxygen, and most flowering plants depend on animals. Although ecosystems are exceedingly complex and the organisms in them are fragile, they may continue surviving for millennia. Even after damage by pollution, once the source of pollution is gone, a complex ecosystem soon develops again.

Cause, you know, we caught god on tape recreating stuff. It's on youtube, so it must be true...

Quote:When I think

When was that, again?

Quote:about the resilience of the entire system of life on earth, I am convinced that life was designed by God.

Awesome, dude! And you know what? I got some spaghetti futures right here? And god told me to offer 'em to you, at this super-special one day only rate of $19.959995! How many can I put you down for?

Quote:Why did you become one of Jehovah’s Witnesses?

See what happens? You don't critique your own stupid questions, and next thing you know, you are the stupid question.

Quote:I was deeply concerned about the way human society is ruining the environment. I knew that although ecosystems are resilient, they are not indestructible. I learned from Jehovah’s Witnesses that, according to the Scriptures, God will “bring to ruin those ruining the earth.” (Revelation 11:18)

And there we go. All these previous words are just dressing for the underlying framework. Lemme summate:The world's not fair! Someone must be punished! And I don't wanna hafta actually work at repairing the problem... I wanna savior! I need a hero!
Cause, you know, work? That's even harder than thinking.

Quote:Those words were important to me.

Of course they are.

Quote:As I continued studying the Bible, I gradually

confirmed my bias even more!
Praise the Lord!

Quote:realized that the hope that the Bible presents is sure.

That's right. Life just ain't satisfying unless you're imagining people who disagree with you being divinely retributed with extreme prejudice...
Cause... that's Love!

Quote:I enjoy sharing my beliefs with others,

like a virus... ever have one of those cold bugs that won't go away until you give it to somebody else?

Quote:and I have studied the Bible with some scientists.

Cause that's where I get my theology from. All day long...

Quote:At age 55, I took early retirement to spend more time helping people to understand the Creator of life and his purpose for our magnificent earth.

Cause that's the quickest way to repair the environment. That, also, was on YouTube.

(26-04-2013 04:10 PM)cheapthrillseaker Wrote: If you read this far, I salute you! (not a salute, but we don't have that emoticon on here. Unless you could but that's more like a salute towards Hitler.)

(26-04-2013 04:10 PM)cheapthrillseaker Wrote: So I got some Watchtower magazines. I would like to see what you have to say about this article. It's been years since I read any of their articles, but now that I'm examining my previous cult I find I don't want to do this alone. Can anyone else help me rip this apart?

Sure. That'll be $19.959995

Quote: Brett Schenck is a retired environmental consultant in the United States. He studied the interdependency of plants, animals, and the environment. Why does he believe in a Creator? Awake! asked him about his science and his faith.

What is your background?

My father was a mechanical engineer. He often talked enthusiastically to me about math and science. As a boy, I was fascinated by the plants and animals in the creeks and pools near my home in New Paris, Ohio, U.S.A. So when I went to Purdue University, I chose to study ecology.

Did religion interest you?

Yes, it did.

Uh-oh... let the downward spiral begin...

Quote:Dad encouraged me to study our Lutheran religion. I studied Koine (common) Greek, one of the languages in which the Bible was first written. I developed deep respect for the Bible.

How did you view the theory of evolution?

My church accepted it. My colleagues believed it. So I never questioned it. But I also believed in God. I had a foggy notion that the two beliefs were compatible. Although I respected the Bible, I didn’t think it came from God.

What made you change your view of the Bible?

Two of Jehovah’s Witnesses, Steve and Sandy, visited my wife, Debbie, and me. They showed us that the Bible, though not a science textbook, is scientifically accurate.

So... you don't get yer science education from a scientist... hmmm...

Quote: For example, it says of God: “There is One who is dwelling above the circle of the earth.” (Isaiah 40:22)

we all live on a blue-white disk
a blue-white disk
What , god doesn't know "oblate spheroid?" That's the kinda thing that happens when ya don't get yer science from scientists...

Quote: It also says: “He is . . . hanging the earth upon nothing.” (Job 26:7)

Pillars of nothingness. Vacuum is not nothing, falling is not hanging.

Quote:At that time, I was using satellite photographs to study ecology, so these scriptures impressed me. They were written long before anyone photographed the circle of the earth hanging on nothing. As my wife and I studied the Bible with Steve and Sandy, I learned of prophecies that had come true

...as opposed to the ones that didn't...

Quote:advice that works

Blood on the lintel, sackcloth and ashes... I do that every day.

Quote:and explanations that satisfied me.

Yeah! Cause thinking' hard!

Quote:Gradually, I became convinced that the Bible is the Word of God.

All words are the words of god. He's all Omni like that. Like "all these words are English words;" and just as redundant and unnecessary. Unless, of course... DA..DAH... god is lying!
<_<
>_>
Somebody's lying...

Quote:When did you change your mind about the origin of life?

When my brain left my body...

Quote:Eventually, Steve showed me the Bible’s clear statement: “Jehovah God proceeded to form the man out of dust from the ground.” (Genesis 2:7)

Quote:This raised the question: Is the Bible in harmony with scientific facts?

Not even a little bit. This is why self-analysis is always a good thing. Catching yourself seriously considering absurd question is a good sign you're on the slippery slope towards accepting absurd answers

Quote: Steve encouraged me to research the matter, so I did.

Yeah... no. Going to believers to support your own conformation bias... not exactly research...

Quote:What did you learn about evolution?

I'm thinking the term should have been "unlearn..."

Quote:Many things. To mention just one, the evolution theory attempts to explain the origin of species. Living things are made up of efficient organs, such as the heart, lungs, and eyes. Also, at the microscopic level, we see marvelously designed ‘machines’ within cells.

See what happens? Somebody snuck a "designer" into your worldview, and alla sudden, everything's a design.
I know. 'Cause when I look in there, there's Gwynnies. I love my Gwynnies!

Wait, what?

Quote:Where do the designs for those come from?

From your brain, dummy. That's what conformation bias is...

Quote:Evolutionists claim that the best mechanisms are automatically selected because the living things that have them survive better. But that idea does not answer the question: Where do the mechanisms come from?

See above. The answer ain't gonna change no matter how many times you ask the question

Quote:I learned

That hasn't been demonstrated...

Quote:that many scientists do not believe that the evolution theory answers that question.

Perhaps... I don't know, maybe the fact that itis not an evolutionary question has something to do with it? I don't know... just throwing it out there...

Quote:A professor of zoology confided to me that he did not believe any of the theories of evolution. However, he did not air his views for fear of losing his job.

Well, duh... because I always ask a scientist who doesn't believe in science about my science. And I always ask just one.

Quote:Does your knowledge of ecology strengthen your faith?

Yes, it does. My work involved studying how living things depend on each other. On earth, all living things depend on something else. Consider flowers and bees, for example. The color, fragrance, nectar, and structure of flowers are designed to attract bees and to sprinkle them with pollen. Bees are designed to extract nectar and to take one flower’s pollen to another plant for fertilization. Clearly, the flowers and bees are designed to supply what the other needs.

Clearly.
And the corpse flower smells like... you know, to attract bees? Cause, you know, design?

Quote:‘The resilience of the entire system of life on earth convinces me that life was designed by God’

No. That would be sloppy and uncritical thinking.

Quote:In an ecosystem, we see interdependence on a vast scale. An ecosystem is an environment with a community of perhaps thousands of types of animals, plants, bacteria, and fungi. All animals depend on plants for food and oxygen, and most flowering plants depend on animals. Although ecosystems are exceedingly complex and the organisms in them are fragile, they may continue surviving for millennia. Even after damage by pollution, once the source of pollution is gone, a complex ecosystem soon develops again.

Cause, you know, we caught god on tape recreating stuff. It's on youtube, so it must be true...

Quote:When I think

When was that, again?

Quote:about the resilience of the entire system of life on earth, I am convinced that life was designed by God.

Awesome, dude! And you know what? I got some spaghetti futures right here? And god told me to offer 'em to you, at this super-special one day only rate of $19.959995! How many can I put you down for?

Quote:Why did you become one of Jehovah’s Witnesses?

See what happens? You don't critique your own stupid questions, and next thing you know, you are the stupid question.

Quote:I was deeply concerned about the way human society is ruining the environment. I knew that although ecosystems are resilient, they are not indestructible. I learned from Jehovah’s Witnesses that, according to the Scriptures, God will “bring to ruin those ruining the earth.” (Revelation 11:18)

And there we go. All these previous words are just dressing for the underlying framework. Lemme summate:The world's not fair! Someone must be punished! And I don't wanna hafta actually work at repairing the problem... I wanna savior! I need a hero!
Cause, you know, work? That's even harder than thinking.

Quote:Those words were important to me.

Of course they are.

Quote:As I continued studying the Bible, I gradually

confirmed my bias even more!
Praise the Lord!

Quote:realized that the hope that the Bible presents is sure.

That's right. Life just ain't satisfying unless you're imagining people who disagree with you being divinely retributed with extreme prejudice...
Cause... that's Love!

Quote:I enjoy sharing my beliefs with others,

like a virus... ever have one of those cold bugs that won't go away until you give it to somebody else?

Quote:and I have studied the Bible with some scientists.

Cause that's where I get my theology from. All day long...

Quote:At age 55, I took early retirement to spend more time helping people to understand the Creator of life and his purpose for our magnificent earth.

Cause that's the quickest way to repair the environment. That, also, was on YouTube.

(26-04-2013 04:10 PM)cheapthrillseaker Wrote: If you read this far, I salute you! (not a salute, but we don't have that emoticon on here. Unless you could but that's more like a salute towards Hitler.)