Daily Digest: Crime and Punishment Edition

Becky Sarwate thinks Wayne LaPierre is a criminal. She claims he and the NRA are “directly responsible for [the] ricin letters sent to gun control leaders” last week. “Wayne LaPierre is an accessory to each and every one of these ricin crimes. He may not have supplied the chemicals, but he and his group continue to dish out motive in dangerous, irresponsible bucketfuls” She thinks they should “[h]aul him to the precinct, turn on the hot lights and file some charges. I’m serious. If it’s illegal to yell ‘Fire!’ in a public place and incite a riot, there should be no distinction between trumping up an imagined threat to the Second Amendment and standing smugly aside as violence ensues.” In that case, then, if someone is killed in a home invasion or raped because they can’t own the arms they need to protect themselves properly, can we haul the Becky and the other gun control lemmings in and treat them the same way? And now, on to some real criminals . . .

A Hotchkiss, Colorado, man could get up to 20 years after he pled guilty to assorted charges including possession of stolen firearms and possession of a “machine gun.” He stole SWAT gear including a fully automatic rifle, a handgun, ammunition and tactical gear from a sheriff’s deputy’s basement and then was stupid enough to ride around with some of it in his pickup. There was evidence he had fired the automatic rifle, a .223 caliber Colt M4 Commando.

In Pinal County, Arizona, a couple of suspects took off after being stopped for routine traffic violations. They abandoned their vehicle shortly after, in which LEOs found a “High-Point 9mm rifle” in the car with a round loaded in the chamber and a full magazine, along with a bag of cocaine. The two suspects are still at large, but if they want to claim their property, they’re holding it for them at the Pinal County Sheriff’s Department.

Also from Arizona comes a report that a Tucson man has been given one year probation for pointing a wooden rifle stock at a Pima County Sheriff’s deputy. The deputy fired two shots in return, but didn’t hit him. The report didn’t say if the stock was one of those adjustable assault stocks, or if it had an actual shoulder thing that goes up.

Yes, as RF pointed out earlier today, you can bring a knife to a gunfight. But a pointy stick? Not so much. In Seattle, someone tried robbing a store using a “pointy metal stick.” Unfortunately for him the store’s owner was carrying a pistol. When police arrived the suspect was handcuffed on the floor and the store owner was standing with his foot on him. The suspect was hauled off to jail, the police made sure the owner’s CCW was up to date and the antis have to choke on yet another DGU that was completed without anyone firing a shot.

And in nearby Edmonds, Washington, a group of kids have been suspended for playing with Nerf guns after a teacher told them it was OK to bring them to school. They were studying probability and were going to shoot the guns 100 times to see what would happen, statistically speaking. After they decided to “try out” the guns before school, they were hauled into the principal’s office where they were treated like criminals and suspended. “…It’s a matter of safety and it’s of the utmost importance. So even if it’s a toy, we take it seriously,” said school district spokeswoman Amanda Ralston. The parents are appealing the decision.

And no discussion of criminal activities would be complete without taking a look at what’s going on in politics. In Connecticut legislators approved a package of revisions for their recently-enacted draconian gun control measures. The revisions further tighten the stranglehold they have on the Second Amendment but they managed to toss a few sops to gun owners: they’re excluding Olympic target pistols, curios and relics from the assault weapon ban. And anyone who bought a modern sporting rifle before the ban went into effect but didn’t receive it until afterward can now legally possess their own property. The changes are going to Governor Dannel Malloy, who of course will rubber-stamp them all.

If you’ve been thinking that the Senate shifting their focus to immigration means they’ll lay off gun control, you’re sadly mistaken. Senator Richard Blumenthal from — you guessed it — Connecticut is “seriously considering” reopening the issue as part of the proposed immigration legislation. His plan is to try to tack on amendments which would limit immigrants’ access to firearms, calling them “common-sense, gun violence control measures that apply very logically and reasonably to the immigration bill.”

And bringing up the rear, as is his wont, there’s Rep. Charles Rangel of Noo Yawk. He’s pushing for “common-sense reforms in this legislation would allow the ATF to consolidate and centralize gun dealer records so that when a crime is committed or when gun trafficking is discovered, the ATF and other government agencies can quickly trace the gun’s purchase history and identify the criminals involved and the mistakes that may have been made in the approval of purchases. ” In other words, he wants to create a central database of gun ownership records, administered by the ATF. That’s the same agency that brought you the “Fast & Furious” debacle and which works for AG Eric Holder who wipes his feet on the Constitution daily. What could possibly go wrong?

“If it’s illegal to yell ‘Fire!’ in a public place and incite a riot, there should be no distinction between trumping up an imagined threat to the Second Amendment and standing smugly aside as violence ensues.”

If there weren’t obvious and public attempts every week in our legislatures to neuter the 2nd Am., she could call sensible NRA campaigns “trumped up.” Instead LaPierre’s words are the equivalent of yelling “fire” in time to save the unawares people in the burning building.

A lifetime ago I took a journalism degree and worked for a wire service for a couple of years. For 25 years after undergrad I belonged to the ACLU.

There is always an irony when anti-Second Amendment people invoke the quote about shouting ‘fire’ in a crowded movie theater. In the context of the Bill of Rights that example was not in a case about someone in a theater, nor was in a case about inciting imminent lawless violence — it was made in affirming a limit on political speech.

That very un-American law (the Espionage/Sedition Act) lasted from 1919 to 1969, was designed and used to stifle speech against wars.

The assertion abut yelling fire was made by the government in defense of a tyrannical law and self interested limit on dissident political speech.

Every time we hear ‘fire in a crowed theater’ invoked , it should speak volumes to us about the legitimacy of slippery slope concerns, and actual tyrannical impulses by own government in its modern history.

Thank you Chris! Ever the cynic however, I must point out that nothing of the factual or logical has ever given those in the civil disarmament crowd pause for thought. Still, an interesting fact and worthy of further citation and use.

Banning guns is not akin to prohibiting you from yelling fire in a theater. Banning guns is akin to me ducttaping your mouth on your way into the theater, on the assumption that because you can speak you will yell fire.

Imagined threats. I see. So I imagined it when Feinstein proposed legislation that would have been slow motion confiscation, by making it illegal to transfer certain guns to anyone but the government. I imagined it when state legislators here in Washington proposed warrantless searches with their AWB. I imagined Cuomo saying confiscation is not off the table.

I am aware. When there was talk earlier this year in the state legislature about background checks, Gottlieb was willing to negotiate as long as what we got in return was a scrapping of the pistol registry. That was a no-go, so the negotiations died. Just as well, but it was refreshing to see a demand that the other side give up something real in a compromise, not just us.

What has me worried is the initiative push. It’s going to get on the ballot, there’s no doubt about that. The thing is to make sure it dies the ignominious death it deserves.

The main thing to do is keep the fight up and make our voices heard; don’t let Olympia ignore the issue. Keep pestering anyone in the Capital relevant to this debate, and make it clear this is an issue that will decide whether they are re-elected or not. A registry is unacceptable in what is otherwise a free state.

“common-sense reforms in this legislation would allow the ATF to consolidate and centralize gun dealer records so that when a crime is committed or when gun trafficking is discovered, the ATF and other government agencies can quickly trace the gun’s purchase history and identify the criminals involved and the mistakes that may have been made in the approval of purchases. ”

AKA registration, which is illegal under FOPA, for a good reason.

But, hey, obey the law? That’s for stupid second-class citizens and peasants, and Rep. Charles Rangel isn’t going to let that get in his way. Laws were MEANT to be broken by the government!

Hm, consolidate and centralize gun dealer records into a database, coupled with a 4473 on every firearm transfer. A federal registry by any name still smells like poo… These people will really try anything to get around the laws they swore to uphold won’t they? Sadly they have constituents that will vote for them as well.

So Blumenthal is saying that the gun rights of immigrants flooding the country under the Gang of Eight proposal should be limited. Why? Because common sense tells him that a large portion of this group should not be trusted with weapons. I.e., he assumes that they are going to be criminals or otherwise dangerous to others.

Regarding the Seattle store owner and the “pointy stick” bandit. In Washington State, a business owner doesn’t need a CPL in his fixed place of business. A employee would need a CPL, though. I wonder why the cops looked into his license. Trying to find a way to forward the Mayor’s anti-gun agenda? Also, if he was carrying openly, he doesn’t need a stinking license.

I just smile every time I see some hopped up op-ed like this one. They trash the NRA. They make dick jokes. They even find time to be angry at Monsanto and Eric Holder, and somehow gymnastically can complain about the government and yet still praise the President.
And yet, the NRA grows every day. My dick grows…oh. Well, it’s still enough to get the job done. And people who have never even heard of Alex Jones are wondering just what the hell these people are up to, and asking for advice on their first gun purchases.

I don’t blame her a bit for fighting like a wildcat, throwing crazy punches and going extreme to try and prove a point. Her team is losing fast. Hell, if roles were reversed, I can’t say I wouldn’t be doing the same thing.

Well, since you brought up dick jokes. Guy walks into the girls crib at the house of ill repute. They make a deal for services. He pays the cash and proceeds to get naked. When fully unclothed he faces the girl, who proceeds to laugh in his face. She tells him that’s the smallest dick she’s ever seen on a man and asks him who does he intend to please with that. Without hesitation he tells her, me.

Drunk guy lookin’ for some love aims for the house of ill repute, but accidentally walks into the podiatrist’s office next door. Nurse shows him to the exam room and tells him to hop up on the table, and someone will be right in to take care of him. He hops on up and proceeds to “make ready.” Another nurse walks in and exclaims, “That’s not a foot!”

Old man with a cane walks into a bar with a alligator.Bartender yells “Hey pal you can’t”t bring that in here.” Old man says “he does a real neat trick, you need to see it.” Bartender says “ok let’s see this trick”. Old man drops his pants, opens the alligators mouth, puts his penis inside the gators mouth and starts beating it over the head with his cane. The people in the bar start shouting “stop that man he’s crazy.” After 2 minutes of hitting the gator the old man stops, pulls his penis out and it’s completely unscathed. Everybody in the bar is amazed. The old man looks around and says ” anybody else wanna try.” A little old lady hobbles up and says “sure, just don’t hit me with that cane.”

She said: “If it’s illegal to yell ‘Fire!’ in a public place and incite a riot . . .”

Oliver Wendell Holmes said : “The most stringent protection of free speech would not protect a man FALSELY shouting fire in a theater and causing a panic.” (emphasis added)

Is it “trumping up an imagined [?] threat to the Second Amendment” when the statements of various Senators, Representatives, Govenors, Mayors, and our President clearly indicate a desire to eliminate, or restrict far beyond the minor infraction of “infringe”, the Constitutional guarantee of the people’s right to the keeping and bearing of arms?

PUAHAHA! I tried pushing back against the drones on that site and promptly banned and my comments erased. I didn’t even curse or call anyone names other than that one troll Shiva who bravely called for 5 million NRA’s members to be disarmed.

But it lives on here, my friend. For as much as they talk about tolerance, people like Ms. Sarwate don’t react well to people who think differently from the way they do. I mean, look at this forum for contrast; rtempleton’s trolling here has selfishly deprived the Special Olympics of a stellar athlete many times over now, and we still put up with him.

I posted a bunch of replies as well, and one of yours was still there. One of the users named Shiva is convinced that the NRA wants more children dead. I told him that if he could substantiate that the NRA was “pro child murder,” that I would rescind my membership.

I enjoy posting on anti gun forums every now and then. It is entertaining to challenge ignorant fools with facts.

I suspect that whether or not intelligent and erudite comments of the negative, i.e., rebuttal, form persist on that system depends on whether or not the commenter is making ‘progress’ in pointing out the fallacious arguments Becky presents.

In other words, if the comments are effective, they could well ‘disappear’ and the commenter be ‘banned’.

Are you being delusional again? When you posted your comment here about your comments there disappearing, you had seven comments there. As of this writing, you still have seven comments there. What’s disappearing?

If Blumenthal is so worried about immigrants and safety maybe he could make it law that all the Mohegan Sun employees walking to work on the 32 (in dark clothing) at night weat DOT compliant traffic vests. I got so sick of almost hitting thoes sensless idiots. As a former Firefighter/EMT in Montville and EMT in Norwich Im really surprised that statistics involving motorvehicles and pedestrians arent through the roof.

“If it’s illegal to yell ‘Fire!’ in a public place and incite a riot, there should be no distinction between trumping up an imagined threat to the Second Amendment and standing smugly aside as violence ensues.”

Ummm, shouldn’t it be illegal to yell “terrorist” and demand someone be arrested and jailed (or other terrible things) just because you don’t agree with the other side? That’s a literal parallel, something Becky apparently can’t conjure up.

If we turned the tables and held Becky and her kin responsible for the “social injustices” they directly or indirectly (as in her example) cause they’d all be jailed by now.

I think those kids have a better defense the that Gregory schmuck. These kids can say honestly that no one told them not to. Gregory got a no from locals and a yes from the ATF. Or vice versa. I don’t remember.

Conflating Wayne LaPierre with the “ricin letters” is like conflating Barak Obama with “The most ‘transparent’ Presidential Administration in U.S. History”. However, it does demonstrate very clearly the mindset of the Socialist, Progressives, which is to manufacture egregious catchphrases and talking points to advance their agenda of “deciding everything for everyone all the time”. The truly incredible thing is that Becky Sarwate no doubt thinks what she’s saying has some sort of intellectual validity. You see, we are facing opponents, like Sarwate, who have self-administered intellectual pre-frontal lobotomies and are no longer capable of discerning truth from their manufactured “reality”. We’re wading waist deep in a cesspool of mindless propaganda.

Okay then – guess that makes Husein Obama DIRECTLY responsible for the deaths of Ambassador Stevens and the SEAL’s who died in Benghazi. Period. Can’t have it both ways Libertard. Guess we need to haul Husein in to the nearest precinct and turn the lights on him too.

A bit off topic but in the realm;
Confiscation as a concept is overly broad.
There can be limited confiscation, such as of a certain type of weapon, but this is more likely to be criminalized in order to push the weapons underground and or force a ‘voluntary’ forfeiture while allowing confiscation during traffic stops and etc.
There can be targeted confiscation, in which individuals or concise groups are singled out for disarmament.
What I don’t think is conceivable is the nightmare scenario of actual door to door forcible confiscation. The logistics involved, the certainty of resistance, and the rate at which word of it would spread are such that I just don’t think even the looniest of the left wing loons would consider it a viable option. That is, until there has been enough limited confiscation has occurred to largely reduce the most effective means of resistance, and enough targeted confiscation has occurred to disarm those most likely to resist.
This too however might be overly difficult in practice; how many of us are so armed as to be able to instantly rearm several others who have been the target of confiscation? How common is this amongst gun owners?
I don’t fear confiscation. I fear the slow, creeping erosion of ranges, ammo availability, liberties and rights. I fear the demonization of gun owners and guns themselves.
Confiscation isn’t in my opinion a fear for this decade, but given time the MSM and the slippery slope of legislation may make us prone to confiscation.
This is why every molehill is worth fighting on, and why one must rail against any encroachment.

The “yelling fire in a theater” meme is a particular pet peeve of mine.

The quote comes from a Supreme Court decision was which later over-ruled as unconstitutional. And besides, the use of the phrase in the decision was meant as an analogy, it was never intended to be binding law.

I can appreciate that people will have different views. I can even appreciate that some people will strenuously disagree with Ms. Sawarte. It is even pretty much expected that people with a lot of anger and little logic and reason with which to argue their opinions will resort to ad hominem attacks on a person’s intelligence or physical appearance because they cannot come up with more logical arguments and reasoning.

What makes many of you commenters above really make yourselves look bad is that you are arguing on a post about why you should have unfettered access to unlimited amounts of weapons by making comments about how you would like to physically harm another person because they have a different opinion than you do.

That definitely will convince people that you are right. I’ve got nothing but insults on someone’s chin and how I want to physically attack them in my effort to argue for unrestricted access to something with which to harm people.

And the person who made the erroneous and untrue legal and historical analysis of the “fire in a crowded theater” example actually used the analysis of the wrongness of shutting down dissenting political speech in an effort to shut down the political speech of some with whom they disagree. You can make up irony like this.

As for the intelligence of the IWPA and national award winning journalist whose face you are all so obsessed over, her opinion does not legally amount to libel, I suggest you look up the laws on it right after you all do a better study of the Constitution and the Second Amendment to understand those better and realize that you are not part of a well-regulated militia and that there are quite a few laws on the books restricting rights to own weapons for various reasons that have been in effect for DECADES and that having you and anyone else go through a background check only restricts the gun owning rights of those citizens who are legally restricted because of their criminal backgrounds.

And you should look askance at The NRA and Wayne LaPierre every time he claims that he is representing gun owners. Because the organization is far more heavily funded by gun manufacturers and serves to effect policy that helps sell more guns. They use gun owners as pawns to get support for their political aims in favor of gun manufacturers much like the Smoker’s Alliance was a front group for the tobacco industry. If the NRA was more about law abiding citizens than gun manufacturers, what logical reason could they possibly have for opposing legislation banning people on the freaking terrorist watch list from buying weapons? What they work for is to scare citizens into buying as many weapons as possible and to keep as many people as possible (dangerous, criminal, terrorist aims, mental illness or not) able to plunk down more money for more weapons.

I might not agree that LaPierre is responsible for the ricin letters exactly, but he most definitely *IS* responsible for keeping as many people who are not law-abiding as the people he claims to represent able to buy whatever dangerous weapon they can as long as they provide a steady stream of customers for the NRA funders (the gun manufacturers).

I find it fascinating that it never occurs to the protect their home and family people that allowing convicted criminals to buy weapons without background checks so that they can circumvent laws that restrict them from owning them without anyone being wiser don’t realize that LaPierre and the NRA keeping them able to buy those weapons are a big part of the reason their homes and family would be in danger.