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02:47:42 what's the best way to get lisp/scheme into mac os 10.7?
02:48:22 heh
02:48:30 rookfood: I think the latest racket works on it
02:48:40 haven't tried though
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02:54:59 rookfood: If 10.7 = Lion, then Racket should work on it.
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04:20:30 offby1, eli: thanks
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07:51:20 hmmm... I need 48s for (fib 25) ...
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07:56:43 dostoyevsky: Are you writing a scheme implementation?
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08:03:11 foof: A scheme-a language... but not a real scheme implementation
08:03:17 scheme-y
08:07:28 (I would strongly suggest dropping the idea and writing _in_ language rather than inventing your own subnormal dialect.)
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10:05:07 dostoyevsky: AsSn is giving you a good advice.
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10:07:01 what's the best way to find info about a symbol?
10:07:58 leo2007: reading the standard and the implementation documentation.
10:08:31 leo2007: If it was CL, I'd say cl:describe and cl:documentation, but scheme lacks those amenities, they're not "pure" or elegant enough, I guess...
10:10:12 but when I type sin in the repl, it prints #. Is there a way to get that info programmingly?
10:12:08 Yes. (let ((info sin)) info)
10:12:37 leo2007: notice also that there's no type-of function in scheme. You have to write a big cond with integer? procedure? pair? etc.
10:13:03 And since there are always implementation specific types, you are sure to miss some.
10:13:03 yeah
10:14:21 surprising the kawa scheme swank server supports inspection. See: http://paste.pound-python.org/show/10590
10:15:29 leo2007: well, of course. I'd bet most of the implementations do. They would be useless without it.
10:15:49 leo2007: The problem is that there's no standard API. Perhaps something in SRFIs?
10:18:37 Is there an equivalent of intern/unintern?
10:21:03 string->symbol
10:21:08 there's no unintern
10:23:09 But then, since symbols have no properties, no values, there would be no point in uninterning them.
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10:24:33 -!- drdo` is now known as drdo
10:26:38 still, the lack of gensym is annoying
10:26:43 where can i read about what all this interned and uninterned stuff is?
10:27:27 weirdo: there is (gentemp) in kawa.
10:27:47 but it's not standard
10:29:31 (define gensym-counter 0) (define gensym (lambda base (let ((base (if (null? base) "G" (car base)))) (string->symbol (string-append base (number->string (begin (set! gensym-counter (+ 1 gensym-counter)) gensym-counter)))))))
10:30:13 yeah, but it's unhygienic. i do something very similar, still
10:30:17 with a very unlikely prefix
10:38:46 At least with memoization my fib is blazingly fast
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11:02:29 ok, now numeric dispatch takes 1/3 of the time it took previouly
11:04:01 pjb: I knew that my initials can get into alloys if improperly capitalized.
11:04:16 pjb: what I didn't expect is getting into that familiar alloys. :)
11:04:41 Yes, that's strange.
11:06:38 I blame it on my morning eyes.
11:08:57 (http://www.americanelements.com/snas.html, just in case you dind't know.)
11:10:29 Yes, AsSn is not too safe...
11:10:42 Sn = antimoine = kills monks.
11:11:44 can you guys help me improve my numerical tower performance?
11:11:57 it's written in JS and tries to implement standard Scheme types
11:12:40 it's written in JS, not scheme, because of circularity issues
11:12:52 weirdo: for MPNs I'd dig into GMP for references.
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11:13:01 MPN?
11:13:02 weirdo: otherwise I don't see many problems.
11:13:17 Multiple (arbitrary) precision numbers.
11:13:35 DGASAU, i'm having problems even when numbers aren't promoted to bigints
11:13:52 the profiling results are totally bogus because of CPS :(
11:14:14 weirdo: Why are you using CPS?
11:14:18 Then you should start from explanation of your problems.
11:14:30 dostoyevsky, because i want call/cc
11:14:53 DGASAU, i have a function that takes 2 numbers and promotes them to one that has higher "priority"
11:15:01 it goes like complex -> float -> rational -> bigint -> int
11:15:17 the function is very simple, look:
11:16:27 http://paste.lisp.org/display/123799
11:17:17 and it takes so much 'self' time in profiling i have no clue what happens...
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11:20:16 the only thing 'k' ever does in promote-binary is set some closed-over variables to its arguments
11:20:28 and it takes so much time i dunno...
11:21:48 weirdo: Maybe it makes it difficult for JS's optimizer if k's parameter can change so much...
11:22:01 yes
11:22:06 but what can i do?
11:22:12 and not k
11:22:14 it's
11:22:27 var target = _SCMinternal_numberDispatch[type1][type2];
11:22:39 this method is dynamically computed. not only that, it's called on different types of objects
11:23:54 If you simplify indexing, will it become easier?
11:24:10 how?
11:24:17 row-major-aref?
11:24:21 (concat 'string type1 type2)
11:24:30 DGASAU, that was worse
11:24:47 Why?
11:24:47 probably because of consing so much
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11:24:51 strings
11:25:00 Alright, do it with numbers.
11:25:08 10*type1+type2
11:25:16 ok
11:25:22 i just found out
11:25:30 it's a {}, not a [] that indexes
11:25:36 so it's a hash. need to change that as well
11:26:11 ("Real programmer can program Fortran in any language.")
11:30:04 _SCMinternal_numberDispatch[i] = {};
11:35:18 yes.
11:35:23 i already took care of that, but thanks
11:35:23 :-)
11:35:37 it's now an Array(25)
11:36:16 profiling...
11:36:17 weirdo: Did it become any faster?
11:36:21 dostoyevsky, running
11:36:26 ah... :)
11:36:45 my 'tak' now takes over 2 minutes instead of 4 seconds
11:36:52 it took 4-5 seconds using native JS floats
11:36:58 weirdo: Which JS engine are you using?
11:37:02 dostoyevsky, Chrome
11:37:30 good..
11:37:53 2.3 min instead of 2.6
11:37:54 ...
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11:41:04 maybe it would get faster if you could generate a static (function__) for each possible combination... Maybe that would simplify the dispatch so far that the optimizer could get to work..
11:41:42 dostoyevsky, yes, i thought of that, but forgot. thank you
11:41:44 :-)
11:41:53 first i'm gonna change > to a compiler-macro
11:41:58 err, not change, augment
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11:44:38 weirdo: Maybe Fabrice Bellard's PC emulator in JS might be worth looking at, too...
11:44:56 eh :-(
11:46:11 first i'm gonna do > and then your suggestion
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11:55:23 sheesh, i'm an idiot
11:55:45 i forgot to end a code-branch
11:55:52 so the hard path executed anyway
11:56:00 and the delimited k executed twice
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11:56:45 OK, running
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12:03:23 1 minute. running further optimizations.
12:04:15 i went from 2.6 to 1
12:04:32 weirdo: Sounds good.. :)
12:04:54 when i have type inference it'll be 4 secs
12:04:55 really
12:04:55 :)
12:05:13 I wish I could make progress like that...
12:05:30 1.1 min
12:06:00 that's because i had to add new checks to code
12:06:54 but promoteBinary is now 7% instead of 46
12:07:23 dostoyevsky, you can make progress if your compiler is properly written
12:07:32 don't delve further into bad design. rewrite instead :)
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12:09:10 weirdo: I'll begin with my compiler soon... Haven't even started yet
12:09:31 to IL?
12:09:36 .NET?
12:09:44 x86
12:12:58 protip: write some intermediate representation so it isn't intimately tied to x86
12:16:20 it's 1 min after some serious optimizations
12:16:27 can you try the same form on your compiler?
12:20:19 weirdo: I think the first version of my compiler will be similar in some ways to http://bellard.org/otcc/otccn.c
12:21:11 oh, the same dude who wrote qemu
12:21:19 i knew the name sounded familiar
12:22:06 trying chrome beta now :-)
12:22:39 but there are some ops that can't be optimized, e.g. SCM_div(x)
12:22:45 i mean
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12:23:02 it only works as T.SCM_div(T)
12:23:22 but it's supposed to be generic so i won't have to rewrite it for every numeric type
12:26:16 If you use v8 standalone, you might get an even more improved version... http://code.google.com/p/v8/
12:29:53 yeah, i have a repo
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13:16:18 You guys are making me want to write a compiler :P
13:16:24 And I have no idea how to do that.
13:17:10 imphasing: read books :)
13:17:21 That's the usual way :P
13:17:32 Seems like a fun project
13:18:10 It would be even more interesting to do some kind of fatamura projection on my interpreter and convert it into a compiler..
13:18:19 Somehow, with magic. And probably robes.
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13:40:32 Some doc says using = to compare non-numeric value and number throws an error. Is it true?
13:40:56 Kawa: (= #f 2) => #f
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13:43:50

leo2007, racket and chicken raise a type error.
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13:44:45 DT``: thanks for that. so the behaviour is unspecified.
13:45:24

R5RS actually specifies that `=''s arguments accepts only numbers.
13:47:29 DT``: I wonder if that is a bug in Kawa scheme.
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13:52:25 in kawa, () eq '()
13:53:24 and so, work has begun on a static type system
13:53:43