SRS....I happen to be Preterist in my fulfillment side of my beliefs. I view that the new testament for the most part was written to the Jews. His
followers even asked if they should teach to the gentiles and Jesus answered no. So....Revelation was written to the Jews for the Jews about the Jews
and Romans. The "End times" already happened when Rome started lighting the highways with Jews and feeding them to lions and hanging them on
crosses.....they killed them all....or almost all. Would you not think this was the end times Jesus spoke of and John prophesied if you were a Jew
during Rome's "cleansing"?

Nero also adds up to 666. He burned Rome just to blame it on the Jews so he could hunt them all down.

Plus...the temple has to be destroyed.....which it was....in 70 AD. So, does the temple have to be rebuilt and destroyed again?

Revelation was a recap of everything Jesus and his disciples had said as well as Daniel. The modern bible has Revelations at the "end" but that
does not mean it needs or should go there.

I think their special is that all that and a few DVD's are available for $17 or so plus shipping. The DVD's have tons of supporting documents on
them--including rare books and sources they dug out from their tireless research.

I've read both PR and ExoV and found them almost mind numbing in the amount of solid info there.

I forget what the one titled about the AC is.

Anyway--for folks really interested in such topics and EXTREME amounts of research, I don't know of any better than the stuff by Tom Horn and Cris
Putnam.

BTW, One of them is a member of ATS. Maybe we could get him to do an AMA.

Sorry, Preterism is one of the most UNBIBLICAL and illogical piles of nonsense foisted on Believers since Eve ate the apple.

1. There's no way everything already happened in AD70.
2. There's no way that God's EVERLASTING PROMISES TO GENETIC ISRAEL have been trashed and given totally to the church exclusively.

3. When God says HIS PROMISES TO ABRAHAM, ISAAC, JACOB AND KIDS ARE EVERLASTING--AS LONG AS THERE ARE STARS, SUN AND MOON--GOD MEANT IT AND MEANS IT.

Bo....thanks for being so kind.
So when Jesus walked by the olive tree (symbol for Israel) and cursed it and said you will never again bare fruit....don't think he was mad at the
little tree do you?
God didn't trash anything but Jesus dying on the cross and coming into his kingdom....yeah that changed things up a bit.
What about Jesus telling his disciples to go preach throughout the land and not to worry when they are persecuted because they would not get through
all of the cities before he comes into his kingdom?
and again....thanks for being such a kind brother

Sigh.

The Anti-Christ is yet to arrive overtly on the scene. However, the globalists are busy setting the stage . . . as is forerunner the O.

Great post, I have known for a while that the Catholic church would certainly like JPII to rise again and become the antichrist. They did everything
they could at his funeral and burial to channel occult power into achieving such a thing as shown in this video:

I recently saw something that got my attention which I will leave for you to decide what it was. It appears between 21:48 and 22:20

The book of Revelation is not predictions prophecies of past present or future historical events.Its is symbology written by signifying in numbers and
metaphors.

It is about one thing only and says so in the 1st verse

The revelation of Jesus christ

revelation is the translation of Greek...apocálypsis, from ἀπό and καλύπτω meaning un-veiling or un-covering.It doesn't mean a great
cataclysm which it has become to be known by the hyperbole of bad teaching of Revelation.

Jesus is the transliteration of Iesus from Latin the transliteration(I became J in about the 16 the century) and Iesus is the transliteration of the
Greek Iesous which the new testament was written in even though no one called him Iesous which is the translation of the Hebrew Yahoshua(English
transliteration) which means Yahweh (Yah=God) is salvation (shua)

christ is the Greek translation of the Hebrew mashiach/messiah which means the anointing or the anointed which literaly means to rub oil on which was
symbolic of imbuing someone (a king or prophet) with the power of God.

so all together it means..

The unveiling of Gods salvation (by) the power of God.

That's all Revelation is about.Not a cataclysmic end of the world destruction by an angry, wrathful,revengeful (insane) God that becomes a war
obetween God and the saints and Satan and the evil ones.That is a summer blockbuster B movie (more like a D)....dungeons and dragons has more truth
in it.

First there is no "The Antichrist".That is never mention in the Revelation it is only in 1John and 2John a total of 5 times(and is about the same
thing).Antichrist is not "a person"...in Greek anti means in place of...it means... in place of christ.

John was talking about a group of decenting scurrilous people that were deceivers who twsited the truth.Yahoshua said the same thing when he said
"Many will come in "my" name saying I am christ and will deceive many.There is only one VERY large group(many) that come in his name and say they
are "christ" it isn't hard to figure out unfortunately they are the only ones that can't believe "who" they are...so the blindness continues.

as for the 666 speculation...fortunately it is completely false. Just like billions of other speculations on the same theme. Revelation 13:18 says

THIS is wisdom.Let him that has understanding CALCULATE the number of the beast which is the number of "man" and that number is 666.

first it doesn't say "a" man it is anthropos...mankind.(Adam means man or mankind).It is one thought ...the beast of mankind. The "beast" of
mankind's number is 666.That isn't carbon 12 atom or any other "speculative" guess.John was specifically told to "calculate" it not "decode"
it(or make wild assumptions).It is math ...not mysticism.To make a long story short (yes.. this is the "short version!) 666 has multiple
calculations...however.

The most prominent is in direct relationship to what Revelation is all about ... salvation/deliverance of mankind from the valley of the shadow of
death....the physical realm.Man is being "saved" from death to continue to "grow".That is the purpose of salvation.In essence mankind has not been
born yet.All of mankind is in a "matrix" in the "womb" of the physical universe.

The creator God is conceiving us and causing growth.The creator God is doing EVERYTHING.Man can do NOTHING to receive salvation and they will ALL
receive it.The creator God purpose is to "mature" mankind from seeds to zygotes to embryo's to fetus to new borns to adult maturity/ which our
physical life "mirrors. The valley of death is in the shadow of the "real world"....The Kingdom of God.

The creator Gods purpose is to "live"(God is spirit not "a" spirit ... spirit means life) IN the heavens of mankind(there is no "place" that is
"heaven" mankind IS the heavens.... the temple of God).

Johns calculation was about a relationship with the creator God.In math a relationship is a "ratio".The most significant ratio is The Golden
Ratio(which is the golden rod of measurement in Rev 21).
The Golden ratio is called phi/Phi
phi=0.618........
Phi=1.68.......

it is the "perfect number" in a ratio to number "1" unity... the creator God.

it is unique because it is the only number divided into "1" that equals the other number that is exactly plus or minus "1"

btw..phi/Phi is an"irrational" number meaning it is infinite and never resolves(which is a mirror of the infinity of salvation ..always growing)

here is the "math" phi/Phi to 15 decimals
phi=0.618033988749895
Phi=1.618033988749895

There are many ways to calculate phi/Phi the creator Gods way, truth and life is through the Fibonacci number (Fn) sequence which EVERYTHING grows by
from atoms to spiral galaxies.
Fibonacci numbers 0-13
0.1.1.2.3.5.8.13.21.34.55.89.144.233...to infinity

phi/Phi is calculated by dividing adjacent Fn.As the FN grow larger they grow "closer to "perfect"(which is impossible) phi"Phi..618

The lower FN don't reach 618 but are still considered phi/Phi but are "immature" .

That is the calculation John was to make....666 is phi/Phi that is immature it hasn't been "born" yet.....phi/Phi "stabilizes at "618...) at
Fn11/Fn12
89/144=0.61805555555....
and
Fn13/Fn12
233/144=1.6180555555

notice "144" is FN 12 and is the divisor of both calculations. That is the 144 thousand of Revelation 14:1 the verse directly following Revelation
13:18 about 666.(there were no chapter breaks).144 is a "quality" not a quantity.
The 144 thousand are the first fruits(which means the beginning) they are the "first" to mature into the "phi/Phi relationship with the creator
God.

John is saying they are the first of the harvest(revelation 14) ...the first to enter into the Kingdom of God into "their "midst".(the Kingdom of
God is In your midst).There is no mystery to who they are.They are the apostles.Yahoshua clearly told them and only them they were given the
"secrets" to the Kingdom of God.They are the first fruits(seeds) of the first fruit,Yahoshua (THE SEED) that everything will grow from.

That is just one of the "many" things Yahoshua said he had to tell them that they could not understand.This is NOT mysticism or religion ..it is the
anthesis of both.Mankind has spent it's entire time in the physical realm speculating what "life" is all about yet it it is hidden in plain
sight.Just as everything(including mankind) grows mankind is growing in a way they can't perceive. They are in the valley of the shadow of death
"matrix"..the shadow lands.

The bottom line is the creator God is causing it all.Salvation is an"infinite process not an event.ALL of mankind is "being" saved.They all are in
the womb..growing or ready to.Some(the many) are spermatozoon swimming up the fallopian tube to impregnate an ovum other already did and are zygotes
others are splitting cells or growing body parts as embryos or are almost formed fetuses.....no one has been born yet though.That takes death then
resurrection( it is NOT reincarnation)..

So in a nutshell that is the begining.It is all very basic.No religion ... no mysticism just plain old life...INFINITE LIFE!!!!....that is the GOOD
news...

2. The utterly irrational leaps of gross, off-the-wall conclusions Preterism REQUIRES is the worst collection of eschatological foolishness in all of
theology.

3. There are many items in the GREAT TRIBULATION Period that the Anti-Christ could not possibly have done because the pieces of that puzzle are NOT
yet sufficiently available. They were certainly NOT available in 70 AD.

4. The unkindness would be to ignore the hideousness of Preterism and the damnable impacts of it on the unthinking, the unstudied and the
undiscerning.

So in other words the late pope is going to initiate and kick off the zombie apocolypse??? I don't want to come off as harsh or anything but as far
as I know the only person talked about regarding the church that is supposed to come back from the dead is Jesus Christ, and I don't believe in
zombies sooooo I'm just going to say that this is a little far fetched for me to consider.

I guess if it would be technological or demonic better hope the body is in tact I would suppose. It just seems a bit far fetched for me to wrap my
head around, I will admit it was an entertaining read for sure. I hope something like this never happens though, old saying "Don't need to believe
in the ocean to drown."

I view that the new testament for the most part was written to the Jews. His followers even asked if they should teach to the gentiles and
Jesus answered no. So....Revelation was written to the Jews for the Jews about the Jews and Romans.

I disagree. Jesus only told them to preach to the Jews while he was alive. He told them to wait until after his death to proclaim the gospel of the
kingdom to the whole world, to preach the resurrection and to baptize everyone in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Ghost.

The bottom line is the creator God is causing it all.Salvation is an"infinite process not an event.ALL of mankind is "being" saved.They all are
in the womb..growing or ready to.Some(the many) are spermatozoon swimming up the fallopian tube to impregnate an ovum other already did and are
zygotes others are splitting cells or growing body parts as embryos or are almost formed fetuses.....no one has been born yet though.That takes death
then resurrection( it is NOT reincarnation)..

So, WHERE will everyone be "born" and live if there is no heaven? If your answer is earth, what makes you believe that there will be no cataclysmic
event to prepare the earth for this?

2. The utterly irrational leaps of gross, off-the-wall conclusions Preterism REQUIRES is the worst collection of eschatological foolishness in all of
theology.

3. There are many items in the GREAT TRIBULATION Period that the Anti-Christ could not possibly have done because the pieces of that puzzle are NOT
yet sufficiently available. They were certainly NOT available in 70 AD.

4. The unkindness would be to ignore the hideousness of Preterism and the damnable impacts of it on the unthinking, the unstudied and the
undiscerning.

And with that, I'm going to race along, for now.

damnable huh...."no one comes to the Father but by Me" and ..."whosoever believeth in me shall not perish" are also lies to you I guess. The
only damnable thing is not believing in Christ as far as I know but I guess you think we also have to believe in 10 headed dragons and half the stars
being wiped out and falling to earth.....because even one star could fit on earth?

I was where you were not all that long ago. Brought up in the church....taught that "the end times are a commin'...praise Jesus he is going to take
us all up before that though....He is coming in '88, no....'89....no....2000...no...2012. After 30 years of hearing all the doom and gloom...I felt
like Jesus would not lie....he said that it was all happening right then....to those standing before Him....even told them that some would not die
before they got to witness it.

But more importantly....we Christians get attacked by atheists, satanists and humanists on here constantly. The one thing you would think you could
count on is love being shown from one brother to another.....but you also think Jesus was lying when he said this was the most important
thing.....love one another. Good job man....you are a fine example of why I left the churchians.

I view that the new testament for the most part was written to the Jews. His followers even asked if they should teach to the gentiles and
Jesus answered no. So....Revelation was written to the Jews for the Jews about the Jews and Romans.

I disagree. Jesus only told them to preach to the Jews while he was alive. He told them to wait until after his death to proclaim the gospel of the
kingdom to the whole world, to preach the resurrection and to baptize everyone in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Ghost.

Deet....very true my friend. But he said not to go outside the Jewish community right then. The letters that were written to the churches of that
time....what we call the new testament...were written to whom? Lets take Corinthians....who was that written to? Ephesians.....who was that written
to? Thessalonians....who was that letter written to? Colossians....who was that letter written to? Philippians.....who was that letter written to?
Galatians.....who was that letter written to?

The first or second verse in all of these books of the bible tell you exactly who they were written to. He tells them straight up that they need to
get ready for the tribulation and second coming. Those churches no longer exist....so did Jesus lie?.......no way. He has been fulfilled. He was
wanting them to concentrate on the Jews until after his death and then spread the word to the gentiles. But he knew it was more important for the
Jews right then because of what was about to happen to them.

The disciples were really asking three questions. First, they wanted to know when "this" would happen. The "this" could be a reference to the
destruction of Jerusalem and the temple, which Jesus had just finished describing as being threatened with destruction. Second, they wanted to know
what the "sign" of his coming was, which as we shall see, Jesus finally gave them in 24:30. Third, the disciples also wanted to know when the "end
of the age" would occur. This is something Jesus told the disciples they could not know (24:36).

If we separate out the three questions, and see how Jesus answered each of them, we can clear up a number of problems or misinterpretations associated
with Matthew 24. Jesus was telling his disciples that Jerusalem and the temple (the "this") would, indeed, be destroyed in their day. But the
"sign" they asked about, Jesus said, would be associated with his coming, not with the destruction of the city. Finally, as to the disciples' third
question, Jesus said, no one could know the answer to the question of when he would return and "the end" of the age would occur.

In Matthew 24 are three questions, and each is answered individually in Jesus' reply. We can still have Jesus' return and the "end of the age"
occur in the future, and Jerusalem be destroyed in the past, in A.D. 70, just as Jesus prophesied.

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