Another thing that is interesting about spiders is that the use of tools has been held to be a differing marker between lower and higher orders. BUT, as we see, spiders are capable of using tools (i.e. they use their own silk as a tool to accomplish various things.) Therefore, perhaps arachnids exhibit some characteristics of higher orders?

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I think that The use of tools as marker for intelligence by default must be a learned behaviour whearas the use of silk is an instinct

I would say that Myglamorphs are likely a bit more intelligent. My opinion is more supposition than fact. I would love someone to back this up for me.

As to biting something way larger than you, unless you are discussing a very small number of Myglamorphs or Aranemorphs is probably not so bright. This is quite ironic given how unmatched size pairs fail when breeding spiders. They seem to understand the concept of bigger and smaller. When given the choice to fight, flow, or flee, fight is not usually a best option.

I would also like to start off the ranking by saying jumpers are likely number 1.

Your last assertion is pretty vague and would seem to contradict your claim that bitey-er T's are less intelligent. OW's have fewer defense mechanisms/tools at their disposal.

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Not quite- its not a question of having less tools in that respect- its more the question of which tool is better to use- running Vs. using the bite or the threat of the bite to accomplish what one seeks to accomplish. And like I said, when you compare infra-orders they don't stand on the same ground so the comparison is double-standard at best.

Aggression doesn't always equal stupidity. The puma is by far more intelligent then the deer and rabbits that it feeds on.

Some tarantulas do seem to be more intelligent then others. My P striata certainly has more efficient hunting algorithms then my other spiders. The greater physical speed probably indicates faster neural processing at some level.

I've observed wolf spiders and even briefly captured 3 of them for another reason. They showed no capacity to learn or change in tactics when confronted with the same stimulation.

A good example is a spider trying over and over again to run up a surface to slick for it to use.

They are robots, just living ones. Like any other computer or robot, humans can learn to interact with them successfully.

Best example of a spider learning is in the genus Portia, watch them hunt and you can clearly see them visualising the area around them looking for a vantage point to make hunting prey in tricky spots easier.

Tarantulas have never really been observed learning on that kind of level at all, but they can learn to a very small extent through association. That's the most basic type of learning we see and most of not all animals can learn by association. Aside from that there's developing behaviours over generations through instinct but that's not really learning in the sense we're talking about

Right. And science is useless and needs to be disregarded at any cost, especially where it clashes with deeply held beliefs.

Seriously, how about people who claim tarantulas are pure instinctual creatures would bother to actually look up the widely available science behind learning in invertebrates? There's books about it. Molecular mechanisms of memory have been found, among many other things. Every invertebrate ever tested can learn, even worms. They are not robots and that is a well proven fact.

But it seems to be so much easier to just believe something and state that believe over and over as a fact than to actually consider the available science.

Best example of a spider learning is in the genus Portia, watch them hunt and you can clearly see them visualising the area around them looking for a vantage point to make hunting prey in tricky spots easier.

Tarantulas have never really been observed learning on that kind of level at all, but they can learn to a very small extent through association. That's the most basic type of learning we see and most of not all animals can learn by association. Aside from that there's developing behaviours over generations through instinct but that's not really learning in the sense we're talking about

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I'm pretty sure this "learning" by "visualising" you speak of is actually the T using their intricate web system, which is instinctual.

I'm pretty sure this "learning" by "visualising" you speak of is actually the T using their intricate web system, which is instinctual.

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Portia is a genus of jumping spider that only hunts other spiders, not a T. When I say visualising I mean that they actually look around with their eyes to map out the prey's web and try find a good vantage point to attack the web's inhabitant from. It's well established that thy do learn and are probably similar to an octopus in intelligence

Tarantulas are the Largest & most unknown least studied of the large spiders. Even Expereinced hobbyists sometimes low little about Ts.
Some hobbyists know a lot of knowlage but seem to rather Troll & make fun of newer members then Educate them.
I used to catch & keep true spiders as pets when I was younger . Jumping spiders & huntsman being the smartest I caught.
Orb weavers Big Argiopes were very good at killing bee's without being stung /bitten by webbing extreemly fast.

Personally I think that Tarantulas are better hunters & are more Motion sensative then Huntsman spiders.
Huntsman spiders probably have much better vision then terrestrial Ts , aboreals about equal.
I have only observed my pet tarantulas never actualy did a Sceintific study watching there behavior.
They are good at sensing motion, some can sense sight and Seem to be very defensive
Are they less intelligent then true spiders? due to large bulky size , or smarter due to Speed & brighter colors they use to scare away preditors (pokies have Bright colors):biggrin:

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okay true spiders have jumping spiders which have about the IQ of a dog so idk if a T can beat that

Jumping spiders might be the squids of the spider world but which I mean far smarter then others in that family.

If there is a correlation between visual Scott and intelligence, poecilotheria tarantulas are probably most like them.

Mine seems to be quite calm as he seems somewhat better at determining what is and isn't a threat to himself. I recently had the sex confirmed as male. The species is P striata in case anyone is wondering.

I'm pretty sure this "learning" by "visualising" you speak of is actually the T using their intricate web system, which is instinctual.

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@Dennis Nedry was talking about Portia visualizing, which they most certainly do. Portia can visualize and remember routes they then use to get to prey, even when they can no longer see the prey. Portia can also use trial-and-error to solve problems, including problems that are evolutionarily novel. Robert Jackson's lab in New Zealand studies Portia, and their many papers are great for learning about the extent of the cognitive abilities of Portia.

That being said, tarantulas can also learn. Mature males can learn to navigate mazes, which is a much more complex cognitive task than simply following their web. The biggest issue with tarantula intelligence seems to be a lack of studies on it. The long generation times of tarantulas make them far worse lab animals than jumping spiders and other true spiders. I don't have an opinion on how tarantulas stack up cognitively against other spiders, and the only way to find out would be to test for intelligence in tarantulas, rather than assume they have none.

@boina is correct that tarantulas are not just instinctual robots. In fact, many invertebrates have been shown to possess rather striking cognitive abilities. Bees can learn through cultural transmission, some orb weaving spiders have a sense of how many individual prey items are stored in their larders, etc.

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