Cups are unpredictable dreamers from the "get-go" who never give up the dream, and Pentacles are earthy, predictable and practical by nature, but not immune to getting the 7-year itch.

Huh. I'd say the opposite 7/Cups, according to Thoth, is delusion but also desire to experience the unknown to escape plain reality ("I never got to have the super-hot girl and slick car...I want to experience that!") And cup cards aren't just about going into dreamland. They're often about coming out of it. In fact (again, according to the Thoth deck), the 7/Cups itself can lead to "sobering" up. The person comes to realize that the dream was a delusion and by exploring it, returns to reality and is happier with that reality. That sounds like the 7-year-itch to me. Wandering off to experience something unknown with the delusion that it will bring happiness, only to "sober up."

7/Pents, OTOH, has always seemed to me a card that speaks of something that seemed absolutely possible, not a dalliance or dream or a fling. Not an itch to be scratched. It's something the person really, truly wants, really is working towards. Also something everyone might well think likely to happen (not shake their heads and say, "He'll get over it...")...which is why it's failure is so devastating. Like a phantom pregnancy or a miscarriage. The disruptive aspect of the card is in the expectation of it happening in the now. "Not yet" the card says. But it also says "eventually." The chance to have the real thing is possible.

We passed my learning level a long time ago lol but I've noticed 7s are somewhat like, consequences of overindulgence.

We reminisce in 6cups, overcome in 6swords, succeed in 6wands, and get the charity we need in 6pents. Then 7cups is dreaming too hard, 7swords has thievery & betrayal, 7wands making needed sacrifices, and 7pents- the warning against of acting recklessly.

Huh. I'd say the opposite 7/Cups, according to Thoth, is delusion but also desire to experience the unknown to escape plain reality ("I never got to have the super-hot girl and slick car...I want to experience that!") And cup cards aren't just about going into dreamland. They're often about coming out of it. In fact (again, according to the Thoth deck), the 7/Cups itself can lead to "sobering" up. The person comes to realize that the dream was a delusion and by exploring it, returns to reality and is happier with that reality. That sounds like the 7-year-itch to me. Wandering off to experience something unknown with the delusion that it will bring happiness, only to "sober up."

7/Pents, OTOH, has always seemed to me a card that speaks of something that seemed absolutely possible, not a dalliance or dream or a fling. Not an itch to be scratched. It's something the person really, truly wants, really is working towards. Also something everyone might well think likely to happen (not shake their heads and say, "He'll get over it...")...which is why it's failure is so devastating. Like a phantom pregnancy or a miscarriage. The disruptive aspect of the card is in the expectation of it happening in the now. "Not yet" the card says. But it also says "eventually." The chance to have the real thing is possible.

I got a bit amused here because I see sobering up as literal....the cups are notorious boozers because they thrive in the dream/fantasy world...particularly Pisces who like to see the world like a fish would in an underwater world...dreamy and hazy. But anyway, I think you and I would have a tough go trying to reconcile Waite and Crowley to seeing it the same. I'm far from saying anybody is wrong in how they interpret the cards...but one thing I will say is that it takes more than one way of interpreting a card to cover the myriad possibilities that life presents in terms of dreams, "itches", and alcohol.....I just say, if the shoe fits, put it on.

Oh, gosh yes! There's certainly the hope of something growing when you plant a seed, but even with earth-suit Pents, the Ace is a very fragile, temporary possibility. Unformed and therefore, if they don't come to anything, easily gotten over. "Oh well, that didn't come to much of anything did it?" Shrug your shoulders and move on.

But with the 7/Pents that seed has not only grown, but it's gotten big enough to bear fruit. You've spent a good long time watering it, fertilizing it, pruning it, keeping it warm through the cold, etc. You've really invested in it. Getting over the fact that there might not be a harvest (or, at least, it might not come when expected)...that's going to be hard!

All the 7's are like that. Like driving on a straight road all night in order to get somewhere then, suddenly, coming up on a roadblock. You're going to be unhappy about that; maybe argue with the police at the roadblock about it (can't they make an excepting and let you thought?). Can you come to terms with taking a detour instead? Maybe even find the benefits in it...even if it's unplanned, and not how you wanted to get where you were going? As with the Chariot card (#7) something has to be figured out, overcome or accepted if you want to drive on.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ruby Jewel

Only that the 7 is the point reached from having planted the seed of the Ace...with 8, 9, and 10 to go before one reaps the rewards, or the conclusion. Seven is a stage over halfway.

Thank you for the information, much appreciated!

So I will keep in mind the ''progression aspect'' between the Ace and 7 in the same suit. It makes sens.

I got a bit amused here because I see sobering up as literal....the cups are notorious boozers because they thrive in the dream/fantasy world

Oh, absolutely! It can be literal. Cups stand for all kinds of delusion-inducing drugs, liquor most particularly. But I wouldn't want anyone to think that this means the Cups suit should always be read (and dismissed) as damaging delusion--a drug/booze induced trap. Cups cards can stand for creativity, for spirituality, for genuine visions and psychic powers, and for very real feelings of love and friendship. And even taken literally as liquor, it doesn't have to indicate ending up drunk (though 7/Cups certainly could). Some of those cup cards, like 3/Cups, would (IMHO) have to be ill-dignified to indicate the liquor getting out of hand or being damaging rather than positive. Meanwhile, 8/Cups is often more than the morning after...it's swearing off the bottle entirely

My point simply is that the 7/Cups, whether delusion or drunken excursion or just daydreaming can end in a sobering understanding of reality and what really, emotionally matters. And that's how it's defined in both Rider-Waite and Thoth It may not end that way, of course, but that's the challenge of that card. Just as the challenge of the 7/Pents (as defined by both Rider-Waite and Thoth) is coming to terms with what you still have in hand, not what you hoped you'd have in hand.

Oh, absolutely! It can be literal. Cups stand for all kinds of delusion-inducing drugs, liquor most particularly. But I wouldn't want anyone to think that this means the Cups suit should always be read (and dismissed) as damaging delusion--a drug/booze induced trap. Cups cards can stand for creativity, for spirituality, for genuine visions and psychic powers, and for very real feelings of love and friendship. And even taken literally as liquor, it doesn't have to indicate ending up drunk (though 7/Cups certainly could). Some of those cup cards, like 3/Cups, would (IMHO) have to be ill-dignified to indicate the liquor getting out of hand or being damaging rather than positive. Meanwhile, 8/Cups is often more than the morning after...it's swearing off the bottle entirely

My point simply is that the 7/Cups, whether delusion or drunken excursion or just daydreaming can end in a sobering understanding of reality and what really, emotionally matters. And that's how it's defined in both Rider-Waite and Thoth It may not end that way, of course, but that's the challenge of that card. Just as the challenge of the 7/Pents (as defined by both Rider-Waite and Thoth) is coming to terms with what you still have in hand, not what you hoped you'd have in hand.

Being intimately familiar with literal and figurative cups/drinking in the real world--short-term, long-term, you name it--I personally resonate better with Thirteen's assessment with her accompanying psychological and spiritual applications.

However,

I am reading these interchanges with great interest in all points/counterpoints. It's as good as Plato and Aristotle!

I don't think that Ruby and I disagree on 7/Cups, but, rather like Plato and Aristotle, we're each just trying to fine tune our joint and agreed on perspective. We want to make it crisper and clearer to both of us and all of you

Oh, absolutely! It can be literal. Cups stand for all kinds of delusion-inducing drugs, liquor most particularly. But I wouldn't want anyone to think that this means the Cups suit should always be read (and dismissed) as damaging delusion--a drug/booze induced trap. Cups cards can stand for creativity, for spirituality, for genuine visions and psychic powers, and for very real feelings of love and friendship. And even taken literally as liquor, it doesn't have to indicate ending up drunk (though 7/Cups certainly could). Some of those cup cards, like 3/Cups, would (IMHO) have to be ill-dignified to indicate the liquor getting out of hand or being damaging rather than positive. Meanwhile, 8/Cups is often more than the morning after...it's swearing off the bottle entirely

My point simply is that the 7/Cups, whether delusion or drunken excursion or just daydreaming can end in a sobering understanding of reality and what really, emotionally matters. And that's how it's defined in both Rider-Waite and Thoth It may not end that way, of course, but that's the challenge of that card. Just as the challenge of the 7/Pents (as defined by both Rider-Waite and Thoth) is coming to terms with what you still have in hand, not what you hoped you'd have in hand.

If I have given the impression that I see the Cup suit only in terms of alcohol to the exclusion of its other attributes, it is only because I speak of a particular quality of the Cups suit which is neither intended, nor implied to mean the suit is limited to that single attribute, or even dominated by it, all of which is, of course, absurd, as is the idea that anyone except a lunatic would imply that the "Cups suit should always be read (and dismissed) as damaging delusion--a drug/booze induced trap."

Since this thread is not about the suit of Cups to begin with, I shall, now, confine my comments to the context of the op's request, which is to consider the possible meanings of the 7 of Pentacles. Based on the elusive and inconclusive nature of the cards themselves, I do not see either of our meanings for the 7 of Pentacles as precluding the other.

Being intimately familiar with literal and figurative cups/drinking in the real world--short-term, long-term, you name it--I personally resonate better with Thirteen's assessment with her accompanying psychological and spiritual applications.

However,

I am reading these interchanges with great interest in all points/counterpoints. It's as good as Plato and Aristotle!

Oh you water signs are all alike..... If you want to know about spirituality, talk to a fire sign.....ahem. (lol)

I don't think that Ruby and I disagree on 7/Cups, but, rather like Plato and Aristotle, we're each just trying to fine tune our joint and agreed on perspective. We want to make it crisper and clearer to both of us and all of you

When it comes to the tarot, all perspectives contribute to the baking of the bread.

The Aeclectic Tarot Forum closed permanently on July 14th, 2017. The public threads remain online as a read-only archive and resource. More information on our decision can be found here. Thank you for being a part of our active community over the past seventeen years.