“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.” - Cormac McCarthy, The Road

Learn this from the waters:in mountain clefts and chasms,loud gush the streamlets,but great rivers flow silently.- Sutta Nipata 3.725

According to Trungpa when you are signing yourself into a hosptial and the form asks your religion and you put down "Buddhist."

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++++++++++++++++This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

There is freedom from birth, freedom from becoming, freedom from making, freedom from conditioning. If there were not this freedom from birth, freedom from becoming, freedom from making, freedom from conditioning, then escape from that which is birth, becoming, making, conditioning, would not be known here. -- Ud 80

Ar scáth a chéile a mhaireas na daoine.People live in one another’s shelter.

What I'm trying to say is, just because someone says they are a 'Buddhist' does that make them a Buddhist? I would think observing their actions over many years would give you a clue to the validity of their associating with being a Buddhist. Do all these people follow the 5 precepts? Would it be fair to say you would at least need to be following the 5 precepts to even be considered a Buddhist?

As I said, please feel free to start a new thread on this particular tangent that interests you rather than drag this thread off-topic.It will be greatly appreciated.kind regards,

Ben

“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.” - Cormac McCarthy, The Road

Learn this from the waters:in mountain clefts and chasms,loud gush the streamlets,but great rivers flow silently.- Sutta Nipata 3.725

Gazelle wrote:What I'm trying to say is, just because someone says they are a 'Buddhist' does that make them a Buddhist? I would think observing their actions over many years would give you a clue to the validity of their associating with being a Buddhist. Do all these people follow the 5 precepts? Would it be fair to say you would at least need to be following the 5 precepts to even be considered a Buddhist?

Honestly, I am not a sin keeper. I do not care what these people do in their private lives. That is their business. This thread is a bit of fluff. Don't worry about it.

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++++++++++++++++This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

There is freedom from birth, freedom from becoming, freedom from making, freedom from conditioning. If there were not this freedom from birth, freedom from becoming, freedom from making, freedom from conditioning, then escape from that which is birth, becoming, making, conditioning, would not be known here. -- Ud 80

Ar scáth a chéile a mhaireas na daoine.People live in one another’s shelter.

According to Trungpa when you are signing yourself into a hosptial and the form asks your religion and you put down "Buddhist."

Would Buddha consider Trungpa a 'Buddhist'?

Damdifino. Ask him.

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++++++++++++++++This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

There is freedom from birth, freedom from becoming, freedom from making, freedom from conditioning. If there were not this freedom from birth, freedom from becoming, freedom from making, freedom from conditioning, then escape from that which is birth, becoming, making, conditioning, would not be known here. -- Ud 80

Ar scáth a chéile a mhaireas na daoine.People live in one another’s shelter.

Gazelle wrote:What I'm trying to say is, just because someone says they are a 'Buddhist' does that make them a Buddhist? I would think observing their actions over many years would give you a clue to the validity of their associating with being a Buddhist. Do all these people follow the 5 precepts? Would it be fair to say you would at least need to be following the 5 precepts to even be considered a Buddhist?

Honestly, I am not a sin keeper. I do not care what these people do in their private lives. That is their business. This thread is a bit of fluff. Don't worry about it.

It's ok, I'm not worried about it... just having a discussion with you.

Your smily thingy suggests that the question is crazy, and I agree. No guessing from me on that.

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++++++++++++++++This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

There is freedom from birth, freedom from becoming, freedom from making, freedom from conditioning. If there were not this freedom from birth, freedom from becoming, freedom from making, freedom from conditioning, then escape from that which is birth, becoming, making, conditioning, would not be known here. -- Ud 80

Ar scáth a chéile a mhaireas na daoine.People live in one another’s shelter.

Your smily thingy suggests that the question is crazy, and I agree. No guessing from me on that.

Ha ha... are you serious? From what we know of the historical Buddha (even though I can't verify 100%) it would be fair to assume that the Buddha would find Trungpa's conduct less than ideal I would think.

Last edited by Gazelle on Sat Sep 01, 2012 8:42 am, edited 1 time in total.

Your smily thingy suggests that the question is crazy, and I agree. No guessing from me on that.

Ha ha... are you serious? From what we know of the historical Buddha (even though I can't verify 100%) it would be fair to assume that the Buddha would find Trungpa's conduct less than ideal I would think.

But does that disqualify him from being a Buddhist? Are you the arbiter that who is and is not a Buddhist?

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++++++++++++++++This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

There is freedom from birth, freedom from becoming, freedom from making, freedom from conditioning. If there were not this freedom from birth, freedom from becoming, freedom from making, freedom from conditioning, then escape from that which is birth, becoming, making, conditioning, would not be known here. -- Ud 80

Ar scáth a chéile a mhaireas na daoine.People live in one another’s shelter.

But does that disqualify him from being a Buddhist? Are you the arbiter that who is and is not a Buddhist?

Well I think it's worth discussing. If he drinks alcohol till he dies of liver failure and has sexual relations with married women, then I would think it is a far stretch to say he is following the Buddha's teachings (as far as I know of it in the Pali Canon).

I say this because I meet people that say to me, well Trungpa drank alcohol so it must be OK to drink and be a Buddhist. I respond and say, sure drink alcohol if you want, but it's not what the Buddha taught in the Pali Canon... I think these sort of teachers corrupt the Buddha's message. But who knows.... maybe you can drink yourself to Nirvana?

Last edited by Gazelle on Sat Sep 01, 2012 9:21 am, edited 1 time in total.

But does that disqualify him from being a Buddhist? Are you the arbiter that who is and is not a Buddhist?

Well I think it's worth discussing. If he drinks alcohol till he dies of liver failure and has sexual relations with married women, then I would think it is a far stretch to say he is following the Buddha's teachings (as far as I know of it in the Pali Canon).

So, to be a Buddhist we must perfectly follow the precepts otherwise we are not a Buddhists. I pity those poor folks in the porn/masturbation threads. Every time they slip up, they are not Buddhists.

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++++++++++++++++This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

There is freedom from birth, freedom from becoming, freedom from making, freedom from conditioning. If there were not this freedom from birth, freedom from becoming, freedom from making, freedom from conditioning, then escape from that which is birth, becoming, making, conditioning, would not be known here. -- Ud 80

Ar scáth a chéile a mhaireas na daoine.People live in one another’s shelter.

But does that disqualify him from being a Buddhist? Are you the arbiter that who is and is not a Buddhist?

Well I think it's worth discussing. If he drinks alcohol till he dies of liver failure and has sexual relations with married women, then I would think it is a far stretch to say he is following the Buddha's teachings (as far as I know of it in the Pali Canon).

I say this because I meet people that say to me, well Trungpa drank alcohol so it must be OK to drink and be a Buddhist. I respond and say, sure drink alcohol if you want, but it's not what the Buddha taught in the Pali Canon... I think these sort of teachers corrupt the Buddha's message. But who knows.... maybe you can drink yourself to Nirvana?

Thank you for sharing your opinion.

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++++++++++++++++This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

There is freedom from birth, freedom from becoming, freedom from making, freedom from conditioning. If there were not this freedom from birth, freedom from becoming, freedom from making, freedom from conditioning, then escape from that which is birth, becoming, making, conditioning, would not be known here. -- Ud 80

Ar scáth a chéile a mhaireas na daoine.People live in one another’s shelter.

So, to be a Buddhist we must perfectly follow the precepts otherwise we are not a Buddhists. I pity those poor folks in the porn/masturbation threads. Every time they slip up, they are not Buddhists.

I don't think porn/masturbation breaks any of the 5 precepts does it? It's probably not great to be a porn/masturbation addict, but as far as I can tell you can still masturbate and not be sacrificing the sexual misconduct precept.

So, to be a Buddhist we must perfectly follow the precepts otherwise we are not a Buddhists. I pity those poor folks in the porn/masturbation threads. Every time they slip up, they are not Buddhists.

I don't think porn/masturbation breaks any of the 5 precepts does it? It's probably not great to be a porn/masturbation addict, but as far as I can tell you can still masturbate and not be sacrificing the sexual misconduct precept.

That may be so about the poor porn guys. That aside, so according to you (?) we must perfectly follow the precepts to be true Buddhists. Anything less, we are not Buddhists. You might want to clarify your position, and maybe you might want to clarify why you are focusing on poor dead Trungpa who was referenced in passing for a humorous remark he made.

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++++++++++++++++This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

There is freedom from birth, freedom from becoming, freedom from making, freedom from conditioning. If there were not this freedom from birth, freedom from becoming, freedom from making, freedom from conditioning, then escape from that which is birth, becoming, making, conditioning, would not be known here. -- Ud 80

Ar scáth a chéile a mhaireas na daoine.People live in one another’s shelter.

That may be so about the poor porn guys. That aside, so according to you (?) we must perfectly follow the precepts to be true Buddhists. Anything less, we are not Buddhists. You might want to clarify your position, and maybe you might want to clarify why you are focusing on poor dead Trungpa who was referenced in passing for a humorous remark he made.

I'm not saying that you have to follow the training precepts perfectly but my definition of the 1st step of calling yourself a 'Buddhist' is certainly a sincere effort to practice the 5 precepts as best you can. I use Trungpa as an example because you mentioned him and it doesn't seem like he made a sincere effort to follow the 5 precepts as far as I can gather.

Last edited by Gazelle on Sat Sep 01, 2012 10:10 am, edited 1 time in total.