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And plenty of my neighbors are INCENSED at the 100K + motorhomes that are parked (for 1-2 days at a time, as the people get ready for a trip) in the driveways.

One of my neighbor's likes to call them trailers. As in "Look at them with their ugly trailer down there....".

I just shake my head, because I bet the "trailer" (luxury motor home the size of a greyhound bus) cost more than my neighbor's previous house.

So - in my neighborhood, full of ridiculously overstuffed people - too full of their own worth - I don't think you'd see a 1972 trailer in someone's driveway, even without the covenants which people seem to think are all that stand between yuppies and savagery.

(really folks, do you think that if the church said tomorrow "there were no commandments, we made a mistake" - that everyone would start raping and murdering?? So many people act like the yuppies in their McMansions are one step away from barbarism and the HOA restrictions is the only thing that keeps them from going over the dark edge!! Some of us do not need external codes of behavior to be courteous - but I digress..)...

But, if you did, I would personally not care.

But - hey - I'm a live and let live kinda person.

And what none of the "HOAs are the only thing standing between us and the riff-raff" people seem to get --- your lovely HOA that stands so vigilant between you and the riff-raff but NEVER oversteps its bounds...

well - that can change..

A couple of the old guard move out, some younger people with different ideas move in and get really active and pretty soon their elected to the board. Well - turns out that the old board would have been fine with your replacing the lights on your garage, as long as they weren't tacky. But the new board - well - they don't want you to do anything. Period. They don't like it. Or - they decide that the board should be a lot more active in every day affairs -- or a lot LESS active...

That's the thing about an HOA -- they have a personality that can change from year to year, election to election.

Generally cities and zoning restrictions are not nearly that mercurial.

So yes - for me - I'd go back to the non-HOA - threat of a 1972 airstream or *gasp* someone changing their tires in their driveway (or the oil, or replacing the engine) - if I could.

Right now, not a possibility. So, we comply with everything, answer every summons/complaint/note/question.

Lastly - in general - economics are quite enough to "protect" your neighborhood. There are not alot of Beverly Hillbillies out there. If you buy a house in the $200K + range (in some places, 300K - other places 500K) -- it is unlikely you will have a lot of cars on blocks, beater vehicles, etc.. if that is significantly ABOVE the starter home/median home value for your area.

So if starter homes cost $80K - that is more often where you will find such *deplorable* behavior such as doing your own car repairs, driving less than brand new vehicles (with rust!), putting laundry out on the line, etc.. simply because a lot of the behavior that is so deplorable is associated with reduced disposable income. Generally people who can afford homes that are 2 or more times the median price for an area - well they usually have higher disposable incomes and will often replace cars as they get old/rusty/etc...

So, buying a home in the upper price ranges, and then having HOA restrictions on top of that is kind of silly... you're already self-selecting for people with significant incomes and usually a certain aesthetic goes along with that.

Of course my husband and I are the outliars to that aesthetic - because as already mentioned, I see nothing wrong with working on a vehicle or parking a camper... (or having chickens, but that's another subject all together...)

While citizens of North Korea or Cuba may be comfortable with this way of living because they know no better, those of us Americans old enough to remember days when we were more free seem to yell the loudest only to fall on deaf ears.

You've mentioned this a couple times... what freedoms do we not have now that we used to have? (serious question)

I can't stand dogs barking non stop, cars sitting on bricks, trash all around the yard! Our neighbor has a huge camper parked right in front of the neighbor's windows on the front side of their home. They can't see out their front windows! That just seems a little rude.

You've mentioned this a couple times... what freedoms do we not have now that we used to have? (serious question)

I'm sure desertsun will be back to answer this, but off the top of my head I can think of a couple very easily.

There are a plethora of municipalities that now ban people from smoking in their own home. Admittedly, most of these are in the grand state of California, however the fact is that the government is trying to control behavior that is perfectly legal for adults to participate in.

Also on the rise are what have come to be known as "breed specific laws". Apparently the incompetents that make the laws have listened to the proverbial squeaky wheel and decided to outlaw certain breeds of dogs because they have a tendency to be aggressive. Now, I don't like aggressive dogs any more than the next person, but the only breed of dog that has ever bitten me (out of the hundreds of breeds I've interacted with) was a Yorkshire Terrier. Whether you think the BSLs are a good idea or not, they are still a limit on freedoms.

Like I said, just a couple that popped into my head, but you wanted to know what freedoms we are losing, so I figured I'd share a couple.

Listen - I'm not saying there aren't terrible neighbors out there. Sure, if you didn't intend to live next to a scrap yard, and the guy next to you had killed all his grass and had 20 cars parked behind his house -- well - that would suck, and I would feel bad for you.

But, if you live in a city - well, there's likely a restriction (from the city) about that - and you can report it and probably he'll have to get rid of some of the cars.

If you live in the sticks (i.e. really rural area with little to no zoning restrictions) well - then there's not much that can be done about it.

But most people who love their HOAs don't live in the neighborhood with the guy with 20 cars behind his house. They live in upscale neighborhoods (at least moderately upscale) with names like "Evergreen Terrace" - and all the evergreens were torn down when the sub was built. And they don't have guys next to them who own 20 cars, let alone who want to park them all behind their house.

So - since in general every person in this neighborhood has relatively the same income, and the same design taste -- these neighborhoods defend the "SAMENESS" of the neighborhood. So if the house was beige when you moved in, beige it will stay - unless you can convince the HOA that Taupe is not a bad color. Similarly, you may want to plant trees, but your HOA may not want you too -- because your lawn is their business. Or - your tree may die and they may force you to replace it because they have a certain idea of how your yard should look.... far beyond "no cars on blocks, no rusted out RVs permanently placed in the driveway".

If HOAs stopped at the sorts of things people talk about (i.e. "I don't want someone shooting a rifle at 11pm, I don't want someone running a mechanic shop out of their garage, I don't want someone to put a giant metal artsculpture proclaiming that the Easter Bunny is the new messiah in their front yard")

I think a lot more of us who don't like them would be less adamant about how evil they can be... (though true libertarians would still be against them, and that's fine too...)

But in neighborhoods where those examples are NEVER going to happen -- the HOAs still need a reason to be busy and so its "your lawn was cut on Saturday but not edged until Sunday 5pm", "your trash can was at the curb at 4:30pm, and the covenants clearly state no trash is to be at the curb prior to 5:00pm", "your spent bulbs look messy, kindly remove your dead flowers (this sent 2 days after the flowers stopped blooming) immediately"....

and those are the sort of "busy-body, with nothing better to do" things that make some of us long for unihabited stretches of prarie where we can bloody well let our tulips have dead blooms on them for WEEKS!!! WEEKS!!!!! MWAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAH the rebellion starts by leaving one blade of grass an inch too high, then pretty soon its a 1x1 square..... SEDITION!!! VILE TRAITOR TO SAMENESS -- WE SHALL CONQUER YOU AND BEND YOU TO OUR WILL......

*sorry* just some old nightmares brought back to life...

So - for people who are happy in their HOA, I am really happy for you. Honestly. Stay vigilant, and make sure that it never goes down the road to madness that many HOAs have.

For people not in an HOA who want one -- well - there's a good selection out there... drive around, take a look and *TALK* to people about how it is.

For people (like myself) who don't want them (which I hear more and more from people in the exact income demographics that HOAs were initially appealing to).... most older existing neighborhoods either don't have them, or have a very reduced level of them -- and now *some* new neighborhoods are eschewing them as people have started to express a desire for control over their own land.

me - if I can swing it - the next house is going to be acreage, in the middle of other acreage - with chickens (and alpacas! I really love alpacas!!) ... and if the guy next to me (several acres away, of course) has 20 cars behind his house (but is otherwise civil and doesn't shoot at me when I pull in my drive) ... I will shrug my shoulders and go and gather my eggs!

You've mentioned this a couple times... what freedoms do we not have now that we used to have? (serious question)

If you have to ask then you're too young to remember or understand. But to prep you, America is no longer the freest country in the world. We were the 6th freest until the Bush regime crime family bullied and cheated their way into office. 8 years later when he left office, America fell to the 16th freest country in the world. Even former Soviet communist states are more free then the USA today. For the record, Hong Kong is the freest country in the world.

Generally these freest rankings vary with the organization doing the research but whatever the answer, coincidentally the countries with the least amount of govt, laws and rules are the most free. And the grand powers that your (not mine) govt has jambed down our throats makes the USA pretty bad in the eyes off the truly free.

I'm sure desertsun will be back to answer this, but off the top of my head I can think of a couple very easily.

There are a plethora of municipalities that now ban people from smoking in their own home. Admittedly, most of these are in the grand state of California, however the fact is that the government is trying to control behavior that is perfectly legal for adults to participate in.

Also on the rise are what have come to be known as "breed specific laws". Apparently the incompetents that make the laws have listened to the proverbial squeaky wheel and decided to outlaw certain breeds of dogs because they have a tendency to be aggressive. Now, I don't like aggressive dogs any more than the next person, but the only breed of dog that has ever bitten me (out of the hundreds of breeds I've interacted with) was a Yorkshire Terrier. Whether you think the BSLs are a good idea or not, they are still a limit on freedoms.

Like I said, just a couple that popped into my head, but you wanted to know what freedoms we are losing, so I figured I'd share a couple.

And speaking of communist California. Any new homes do not have a thermostat to control your AC or heat. The temp in your home is now controlled from the state house. I also like the Cali law that forbids certain big screen TVs from being owned. And what about the fact that Cali will be banning black cars if they have not already. That's my favorite.

Remember in the 60s when if we did not agree what the govt did we would march and rant and rave and carry signs saying hooray for our side? Try that today and the pigs would leave the donut shop to arrest all of us on made up charges for unlawful assembly and disturbing the peace and even organizing without a permit. Anyone want to call this freedom?

I know a man who is 87 and he has every car he has ever owned parked out behind his house!!! So if you can only imagine. He has also bought cars over the years for parts.It is unbelievable.

Call your city code enforcement. You already pay for them in your property taxes. YOU DO NOT need a communist HOA regime to do something about your unsightly situation. Never forget that if you had a communist HOA to force your neighbor to conform to your liking, they will force you to conform to something you don't like.

Just think, maybe you're a veteran and they forbid you to fly the American flag on Veterans day. What would you do then?

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