Goshen - A small northern Indiana college has decided to stop playing "The Star-Spangled Banner" at sporting events after starting to do so for the first time last year. Goshen College's board of directors says it will find an alternative that honors the country and the Mennonite Church-affiliated school's pacifist traditions. The 1,000-student college has been playing an instrumental version of the national anthem, followed by a peace prayer, before games and other events. Some were upset with the school's decision last year because the song's lyrics contain references to using war and military might to defend the country.

I really have no respect for pacifists who enjoy our country’s freedoms while rejecting the sacrifices that were necessary to secure them. I’d frankly much prefer if the Mennonites didn’t dishonor our national anthem by using it at their events. They can also feel free to not fly our flag at their facilities, that is, if they do so anyway.

5
posted on 06/07/2011 10:21:09 AM PDT
by MeganC
(NO WAR FOR OIL! ........except when a Democrat's in charge.)

Problem with being a Mennonite is that you end up with a morality that says there's no sense in going to the aid of someone who is being beaten up because, as it turns out, they participated in it all by being there.

It's a misunderstanding of logic and human nature that leads them to imagine that both sides are equally culpable.

War is an ugly thing but not the ugliest of things; the decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feelings which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse. A man who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself.

-John Stuart Mill

11
posted on 06/07/2011 10:32:12 AM PDT
by Lou L
(The Senate without a fillibuster is just a 100-member version of the House.)

They do this to feel good about themselves and to have an air of being more evolved and above it all. Meanwhile they take a free ride on the backs of those who must make the life and death decisions and are willing and able to do the hard things that keep us free.

13
posted on 06/07/2011 10:36:06 AM PDT
by Anima Mundi
(If you try to fail and you succeed , what have you just done?)

Does this private school receive ANY government funding/grants loans ? No national anthem NO help at all from the US taxpayers IMO. And NO licence nor recognition of any degrees either IMO. Why would anybody send their child to an institution that is unAmerican?

Throughout his career, Chesterton was a vigorous enemy of pacifism. What he did believe in was the right, or the duty rather, of self-defense and the defense of others.

Chesterton was also a vigorous enemy of militarism. Both ideas, he argued, were really a single idea — that the strong must not be resisted. The militarist, he said, uses this idea aggressively as a conqueror, as a bully. The pacifist uses the idea passively by acquiescing to the conqueror and permitting himself and others around him to be bullied. Of the two, Chesterton thought the pacifist far less admirable. In fact, the pacifist, for him, was “the last and least excusable on the list of the enemies of society”.

They preach that if you see a man flogging a woman to death you must not hit him. I would much sooner let a leper come near a little boy than a man who preached such a thing.
This should not be understood as a lust for fighting. “The horror of war”, Chesterton wrote, “is the sentiment of a Christian and even of a saint”. But in refusing to strike any blow, pacifists announce their readiness to surrender the higher ideals of “liberty, self-government, justice, and religion”.

An excellent point. Although we have one official national anthem, there are three unofficial anthems (with My Country ‘Tis of Thee) that celebrate our nation that could be substituted. “God Bless America” would seem to be the most rousing musically and lyrically.

“A “pacifist male” is a contradiction in terms. Most self-described “pacifists” are not pacific; they simply assume false colors. When the wind changes, they hoist the Jolly Roger.”
—Robert A. Heinlein

28
posted on 06/07/2011 11:21:00 AM PDT
by Slings and Arrows
(You can't have Ingsoc without an Emmanuel Goldstein.)

“Those who refuse to support and defend a state have no claim to
protection by that state. Killing an anarchist or a pacifist should
not be defined as “murder” in a legalistic sense. The offence against
the state, if any, should be “using deadly weapons inside city
limits”. or “creating a traffic hazard”, or “Endangering bystanders”,
or other misdemeanor.

“However, the state may reasonably place a closed season on these
exotic asocial animals whenever they are in danger of becoming
extinct.”
—Robert A. Heinlein

29
posted on 06/07/2011 11:23:47 AM PDT
by Slings and Arrows
(You can't have Ingsoc without an Emmanuel Goldstein.)

Well if you're going to go around quoting John Stuart Mill, I guess I'll throw this in...

I never meant to say that the Conservatives are generally stupid. I meant to say that stupid people are generally Conservative. I believe that is so obviously and universally admitted a principle that I hardly think any gentleman will deny it.

This is a historic Mennonite College. They have held steadfast in their pacifism for many years. If there is a tornado or natural disaster they are usually the first to help. I am not a pacifist but I attended a Quaker college and I have nothing but respect for these sects. They don’t change with the wind. They are not fair weather pacifists. Many of the medics in Vietnam were Mennonite! Give them some slack they are not jihadists!

I grew up in an Evangelical Congregational Church, which was an off shoot of the Mennonite Church that split at the same time as the Evangelical United Brethren.

I never heard a single word about pacifism in the church. It really surprises me. I guess that could be that part of the reason that EC church separated was because they didn’t want the centralized control of the Mennonite Church. The Mennonites that I knew were all plain people, I guess I might have known something about the pacifism because we considered them to be much like the Quakers, only stricter.

There are offshoots ~ and they've all turned their back on the pacifism part. Part of that had to do with the Civil War.

You'll find your typical Quaker group in Indiana is different from that in the East, and it was precisely the pacificism.

The whole theory breaks down when people are fighting to free slaves.

The Christian Church (Disciples of Christ) picked up a good number of lesser known formerly pacifist groups over the years ~ e.g. the Dunkards ~ and you are likely to encounter some pretty strong proponents of the Quaker/Mennonite pacifist position out of them ~ except for WWII and the Civil War.

I've noticed on trips back home that the Old Order Amish are making a really big move into Indiana. They go whole hog into the whole pacifist thing but I've heard even they back off from letting the hogs eat 'em.

I went to college at a school that was associated with the EUB. Religion was a required freshman course. We read theologians ranging from Thomas Aquinas to Paul Tillich.

My minister was head of the joint seminary for EUB and EC churches and so when I went home, I asked him if he agreed with Tillich. He said yes and that he had to preach the kind of sermons that the congregation wanted to hear. I never went back.

This is a historic Mennonite College. They have held steadfast in their pacifism for many years. If there is a tornado or natural disaster they are usually the first to help. I am not a pacifist but I attended a Quaker college and I have nothing but respect for these sects. They dont change with the wind. They are not fair weather pacifists. Many of the medics in Vietnam were Mennonite! Give them some slack they are not jihadists!

Your common sense has no place in this thread. It's far better to pile on with the hatred and vitriol for a people that dare to disagree with one's own ideology.

Disclaimer:
Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual
posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its
management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the
exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.