Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 15:36 - Oct 17 by wobbly

There is a suggestion that if Parliament votes down the deal on Saturday, it will be argued that this means Parliament is consenting to no deal under the Benn Act. So, no extension required.

Seems a stretch but ...

The Benn act states:

“a)the statement has been approved by resolution of the House of Commons on a motion moved by a Minister of the Crown in the following form—

“That this House approves the withdrawal of the United Kingdom from the European Union under Article 50 of the Treaty on European Union on exit day, without a withdrawal agreement as defined in section 20(1) of the European Union (Withdrawal) Act 2018”,

It needs a positive approval, not a vote against something else. A vote ‘no’ against the WA doesn’t seem to satisfy the requirement whatever Rees Mogg thinks.

Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 15:51 - Oct 17 by Uxbridge

Whispers that there won't even be a motion on the second ref on Saturday. Which I must admit I find absurd. If not now, when?

It apparently to allow Labour MPs to vote against deal even if they don’t want a second referendum because they want an election. But I agree. It’s time to make a decision now. Deal, referendum or no deal. Enough is enough with Corbyn’s nonsensical posturing.

The bloke’s an idiot.

I think Saturday probably brings it to a close one way or another. Then we have an election which decides the future relationship.

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Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 15:57 - Oct 17 with 616 views

Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 15:56 - Oct 17 by londonlisa2001

It apparently to allow Labour MPs to vote against deal even if they don’t want a second referendum because they want an election. But I agree. It’s time to make a decision now. Deal, referendum or no deal. Enough is enough with Corbyn’s nonsensical posturing.

The bloke’s an idiot.

I think Saturday probably brings it to a close one way or another. Then we have an election which decides the future relationship.

Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 15:58 - Oct 17 by Uxbridge

I can't even begin to follow Labour's logic there.

Corbyn wants to vote deal down but wants brexit on his own terms so doesn’t actually want a second referendum on this deal vs remain as that way means he can’t ever get a deal that he wants is my reading of it.

He’s a self absorbed moron.

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Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 16:03 - Oct 17 with 599 views

Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 15:31 - Oct 17 by londonlisa2001

Bluey is probably relying on guido reporting Juncker saying no extension. Even though he really isn’t. And it’s not his call anyway - it’s just political posturing as he wants the deal to pass.

[Post edited 17 Oct 2019 15:32]

The BBC is reporting Juncker saying no extension. Chris Morris (tweeting with Kuennsberg) is saying we'll have to see if the council agrees with him.

This could just be the EU having had enough and saying take the deal or be damned, so to speak. Or it vould just be Juncker mouthing off as he is apparently prone to do....shooting from the hip Morris called it.

It's the big question now, what happens if Parliament votes it down. With no extension we either leave with no deal or they ask for time to put it to a referendum but that means an extension of a kind. How long would it take to organise another vote? Would the EU allow that time or just say goodbye? If the EU really are saying it's this deal or no deal, does it take remain off the ballot paper too?

I had to laugh at Farage though, he slated Benn and the rest yet now he's slating the EU for apparently overiding the Benn act! He wants the penny and the bun, tax free.

Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 16:02 - Oct 17 by londonlisa2001

Corbyn wants to vote deal down but wants brexit on his own terms so doesn’t actually want a second referendum on this deal vs remain as that way means he can’t ever get a deal that he wants is my reading of it.

He’s a self absorbed moron.

Actually thinking about this some more.

I guess that there are Tories (eg, Letwin, Clarke, Rudd, other Johnson etc) that will vote for the deal as is. If it doesn’t get through because of DUP, extreme ERG people, then it really is a choice between no deal and a second referendum. At that point they’d support a second referendum. They may not support an amendment for a second referendum before they see whether the deal has the numbers to pass first? Add that to the Labour issue, and that may be why it’s a potential for delaying?

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Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 16:14 - Oct 17 with 581 views

Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 16:03 - Oct 17 by Catullus

The BBC is reporting Juncker saying no extension. Chris Morris (tweeting with Kuennsberg) is saying we'll have to see if the council agrees with him.

This could just be the EU having had enough and saying take the deal or be damned, so to speak. Or it vould just be Juncker mouthing off as he is apparently prone to do....shooting from the hip Morris called it.

It's the big question now, what happens if Parliament votes it down. With no extension we either leave with no deal or they ask for time to put it to a referendum but that means an extension of a kind. How long would it take to organise another vote? Would the EU allow that time or just say goodbye? If the EU really are saying it's this deal or no deal, does it take remain off the ballot paper too?

I had to laugh at Farage though, he slated Benn and the rest yet now he's slating the EU for apparently overiding the Benn act! He wants the penny and the bun, tax free.

This'll be interesting, what will Corbyn say.....and Starmer!

It depends who at the BBC you read. Katya Adler is saying it’s just a negotiating ploy and is nonsense. And she’s the one closest to the EU.

The EU can’t be seen to be responsible for a no deal. It hurts them as well as us. Not as much, but it hurts them. So saying no to an extension foe a referendum that could mean we stay after all, would be nonsensical.

I think this is the last throw of the deal dice. If this doesn’t get through, what’s left other than a Labour type deal with a customs union. And that requires a Labour majority, which they won’t get.

It’s always in our hands, of course - we can revoke...

The Farage stuff is hilarious I agree. How dare Juncker say we may have to just leave...lol.

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Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 16:22 - Oct 17 with 566 views

Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 16:03 - Oct 17 by Catullus

The BBC is reporting Juncker saying no extension. Chris Morris (tweeting with Kuennsberg) is saying we'll have to see if the council agrees with him.

This could just be the EU having had enough and saying take the deal or be damned, so to speak. Or it vould just be Juncker mouthing off as he is apparently prone to do....shooting from the hip Morris called it.

It's the big question now, what happens if Parliament votes it down. With no extension we either leave with no deal or they ask for time to put it to a referendum but that means an extension of a kind. How long would it take to organise another vote? Would the EU allow that time or just say goodbye? If the EU really are saying it's this deal or no deal, does it take remain off the ballot paper too?

I had to laugh at Farage though, he slated Benn and the rest yet now he's slating the EU for apparently overiding the Benn act! He wants the penny and the bun, tax free.

This'll be interesting, what will Corbyn say.....and Starmer!

More like Juncker shooting from hip flask.

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Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 16:50 - Oct 17 with 528 views

2 questions for those that are supporters of Brexit because of the improvement it’ll cause for workers (wingstandwood, Jango etc):

This new version of the deal takes away the workers and environmental protections that were in the May deal. Are you still going to disagree that the reason for Brexit is a race to an unregulated bottom that’s great for the richest and awful for the poorest?

Why would any company in the world now base themselves in Wales (as an example) rather than Northern Ireland?

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Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 17:12 - Oct 17 with 508 views

With no 2nd referendum and the Benn surrender act made null and void by Junker the arena for remainers seems to be shrinking Fancy having turned down a General Election when offered that showed the EU where the real power in the UK is. Game over!