Yeah, but it's a lot like the stock market...less risk=less reward. Barkley may be the safest QB in this class, but I don't think anyone is marvelling at the possibilities of his upside.

From what I have seen and read about the other QBs in the draft, I'd rather take a guy who will end up being a decent starter to a good one (Barkley) over a guy who is either going to be maybe good but also could be really bad (the rest of them).

Out of all the qbs in this draft, he can probably be a shoe in to start from day 1 in a majority of nfl offense, minus option/pistol. knows how to read defenses, and play as a dropback and read passer. but doesn't have much else to offer in terms of pure ability.

yes he can bust, just like any other guy, but all the other guys won't be able to start day 1 unless put in the right situation.

Out of all the qbs in this draft, he can probably be a shoe in to start from day 1 in a majority of nfl offense, minus option/pistol. knows how to read defenses, and play as a dropback and read passer. but doesn't have much else to offer in terms of pure ability.

yes he can bust, just like any other guy, but all the other guys won't be able to start day 1 unless put in the right situation.

None of that has anything to do with how high his floor is. He can come in and start from day one and suck. If he came in and was terrible, that would mean that his 'high floor' wasn't actually that high. He's had amazing receivers throughout his college career, who knows how he's going to play with an average NFL offense? And for a guy who 'knows how to read defenses', he sure makes a lot of terrible decisions.

By saying Barkley has a high floor/low ceiling, you're saying that he's coming into the NFL and won't ever be a top quarterback, but that he won't ever be a terrible quarterback. That isn't true. He could easily come in and be a terrible quarterback. Therefore, his floor isn't high.

C'mon bhaarat, your posts are getting worse by the day.

EDIT: Lol, the guy even said it himself, he was being generous by saying Barkley had a high floor and he said it for arguments sake.

None of that has anything to do with how high his floor is. He can come in and start from day one and suck. If he came in and was terrible, that would mean that his 'high floor' wasn't actually that high. He's had amazing receivers throughout his college career, who knows how he's going to play with an average NFL offense? And for a guy who 'knows how to read defenses', he sure makes a lot of terrible decisions.

By saying Barkley has a high floor/low ceiling, you're saying that he's coming into the NFL and won't ever be a top quarterback, but that he won't ever be a terrible quarterback. That isn't true. He could easily come in and be a terrible quarterback. Therefore, his floor isn't high.

High floor doesn't mean "no chance to bust". It means he's more NFL ready NOW compared to the other prospects. There are exceptions to every statement anyhow I mean Aaron Curry was the safest prospect by a country mile and we saw how that worked out.

Every NFL receiver is amazing compared to collegiate WRs. Sure individually a few might stand out in college but do Damian Williams, Dwayne Jarrett, and Mike Williams whom all blew up the college ranks perform well at the NFL level?

I think you're arguing just to argue and by extension trolling the hell out of anyone willing to listen. Every single QB prospect is rated anywhere from first to fifth depending on who is evaluating.

Honestly I think it's hilarious that we have a four horse race for top QB and none of them are considering top 20 talent-wise going into the draft. Horrendous year to need a QB while holding a top pick.

To be honest, I don't really believe that "floor" is a meaningful quality of quarterbacks. There are guys with a lot of talent who for whatever reason can't even make it as a backup in this league (e.g. Brian Brohm, Pat White.) At other positions you don't really see this happen (OTs who struggle kick inside, CBs who struggle move to safety, LBs who struggle play 2 downs, etc.)

High floor doesn't mean "no chance to bust". It means he's more NFL ready NOW compared to the other prospects. There are exceptions to every statement anyhow I mean Aaron Curry was the safest prospect by a country mile and we saw how that worked out.

No, people use "safe pick" and "high floor" as a way of saying he isn't going to bust. You can count on them to produce. The chance of them busting isn't very high. They are 'safe' to pick because they won't bust. Their 'high floor' is the minimum that they will be, etc.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trogdor

Every NFL receiver is amazing compared to collegiate WRs. Sure individually a few might stand out in college but do Damian Williams, Dwayne Jarrett, and Mike Williams whom all blew up the college ranks perform well at the NFL level?

The quality of the talent around him is in comparison to what they are going up against. Barkley has great receivers because he has very good college receivers going against inferior competition. In the NFL, if he goes to a team such as the Browns, he would have bad receivers around him. Not because those players would be terrible in college, but because they are playing against better competition and are therefore not as good. Use your brain.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trogdor

I think you're arguing just to argue and by extension trolling the hell out of anyone willing to listen. Every single QB prospect is rated anywhere from first to fifth depending on who is evaluating.

I finally got around to watching the Senior Bowl the other day. Here are some of my notes...

Robert Alford - CB - SE Louisiana. Alford started off the game with a nice kick return, almost scoring a touchdown before being run down inside the 30 by Desmond Trufant. Has great burst but not long speed. Regularly made plays in coverage. Is under 5'10". Is 25 years old, which may hurt him a little bit. Would be a steal after round 3.

Jordan Poyer - CB - Oregon St. Poyer made a lot of plays all over the field. I was surprised when I looked him up to see that he was listed as a corner, because he really looks like a safety to me; not due to lack of speed or coverage skills, but because of the way he covers the field and makes plays. He drove through a receiver, jarring the ball loose for an interception. This guy is just a really good football player. His 40 time may determine where he plays at the next level. 3rd/4th round.

Desmond Trufant, CB, Washington. I mentioned Trufant as my "homer" pick a couple of weeks ago, thinking he might be an under-the-radar 5th rounder. Now everyone knows about him and he is being talked about as a Top 50 pick. He has the best coverage skills of any Senior Bowler this year. Never out of position. He ran down Robert Alford to save a touchdown on the opening kickoff, and Mayock raved about his effort, coming all the way from the other side of the field. 5'11" and 190. 2nd rounder.

Leon McFadden, CB, SDSU. I was really excited to see McFadden in this game, but he really didn't show up from what I saw. He is someone I will be looking for when I go back through it. I admittedly always miss plenty the first time through. He had a great week at practice, though, so I will be looking to find more on him.

Jonathan Cyprien, S, FIU. We have talked about him plenty and I really liked what I saw. He is a great hitter, but also a sure tackler. He has very good coverage skills for a safety, and didn't look slow at all. A very well rounded player, with a high ceiling. Probably solidified himself as a solid 2nd rounder.

Duke Williams, S, Nevada. Williams was Cyprien's counterpart on the North squad. Was all over the field, really aggressive. Probably not as explosive as Cyprien, but a very good athlete in his own right. Looks like a 4th rounder to me.

Zaviar Gooden, OLB, Missouri. Holtbruce turned me on to this guy, and he was right...this guy is FAST. Not only fast, but a great athlete, and instinctive. I think he would be a great fit with the Rams. He looks very lean to me, and I think he could carry another 10-15 pounds without losing speed or agility.

Khaseeme Greene, OLB, Rutgers. On another thread someone said that Greene was faster than Gooden, and a lot better ball player. If that is the case, he sure didn't show it in this game. He looked bored to me, didn't show me anything that told me he was in anyway excited to become an NFL player. Highly disappointing.

Vince Williams, OLB, Florida St. I didn't know his name before this game. He is thicker than Gooden, but on the short side (6'0", 247). He isn't super fast like Gooden, but has a great burst and was all over the field. I like him in the 3rd/4th round.

Ziggy Ansah, DE, BYU. Whatever this guy didn't show this week in practice, he saved for the game. He spent all day in the backfield. His ceiling is extremely high, especially considering he has only played football for 3 years. I'm honestly beginning to wonder if he even makes it to #16. They say he ran a 10.9 100 in 2009 (at 240ish). 6'5", 274, 34 5/8" hands, 82" wingspan. You can't coach those numbers. This guy could really become something special.

Kawann Short, DT, Purdue. Short has decent size (6'3", 308) and was technically sound. Created havoc all over the field. All day long he had me romanticisizing what we could do with him next to Brockers. I hadn't given him much thought, because DT isn't much of a need for us, so this was a pleasant surprise. Definitely a 1st round player.

Zac Dysert, QB, Miami(OH); Landry Jones, QB, Oklahoma; Ryan Nassib, QB, Syracuse; Tyler Wilson, QB, Arkansas...all sucked ass. I have heard everyone saying this was a weak QB class, but I had no idea they were this bad. I felt bad for the WR's all day, thinking they were being handcuffed in the game because no one could get them the ball. Manuel had a decent game, and Glennon showed flashes, but overall the QB play was the weakest link in this game.

Mike Gillislee, RB, Florida. He runs harder than his size would indicate due to his short, stocky frame (5'9", 209). Eerily similar in stature to Emmitt Smith. Has the burst to turn the corner, and decent hands catching the ball. A lot more powerful between the tackles than I thought he would be. Brings a different skill set to the game than Pead/Richardson. 2nd/3rd round.

Robbie Rouse, RB, Fresno St. All week long they were saying that Rouse was not explosive. I didn't see that at all. He looked like the quickest back on the field, and played harder than his counterparts. Has excellent hands. I hate comparing these prospects to established pro's, but he did remind me of Darren Sproles. 5'6", 186 pounds.

Markus Wheaton, WR, Oregon St. If anyone was hampered by poor QB play in this game it was Wheaton. The entire game you could see him working to get on the same page with his QB, with little success. However, his burst and athleticism are evident. He has great hands and runs very clean routes. Needs to get stronger, but has the tools. 2nd/3rd round.

Marquise Goodwin, WR, Texas. I was looking forward to seeing him play, and came away so disappointed. His speed is obvious; this guy is a blazer and will likely always be the fastest player on the field at the next level. He has decent hands as well. His problem is that he can't get separation to find the open field to save his life. His field vision is very poor. On short, quick passes he was okay, but he looked lost and was unable to locate the ball downfield. Had no ability to shake free in the return game, even with room to run. He looks to have a strong skill set, but I don't see it translating to the field anytime soon. I was having visions of a faster TY Hilton going into this game, but Hilton is 10 times the football player.

Terrance Williams, WR, Baylor. I was disappointed with Williams as well. He lacks explosion and did not find separation. Even considering the weak QB play, this guy didn't show up. I wasn't real high on him anyway, but now he is way down on my list.

Chris Harper, WR, Kansas St. I really like Harper. He doesn't have the great speed that you look for, but he runs fantastic routes and finds ways to get open. Great hands. I can see him finding a niche as that dependable possession receiver who is money on 3rd and 6. Would be a steal if he falls past the 3rd round.

Russell Shepard, WR, LSU. A real head scratcher here. This guy has all the tools you could want in a receiver...decent size, speed, explosion, hands...but had next to no production in college. My first thought is that the system at LSU really let him down. While he had a similar game to Goodwin, I was left with the feeling that Shepard is a football player whose skill set was ignored. I would definitely take a flier late on this guy.

Tavarres King, WR, Georgia. Has decent size and skillset, but I admit I didn't give him the attention he probably deserves. I will be watching him more closely when I go through the game again.

Michael Williams, TE, Alabama. At first glance, this guy looks like nothing more than an inline blocker, a small tackle if you will. He has nice hands, though, and is more athletic than you might think for a 270 pound TE. While I don't see him ever resembling Jimmy Graham, he has better receiving tools than most big TE's. Besides, the NFL needs another Mike Williams. 6th rounder.

Lane Johnson, OT, Oklahoma. I really like this guy. He has great feet and is fundamentally sound. Really smart, and seems to know where his QB is at all times. I see him being a very good LT somewhere for the next decade. I am now much more comfortable with us taking him at #16 than I was before. After this showing he may not fall that far.

Kyle Long, G/T, Oregon. Long is still my favorite lineman in this draft. His ceiling is really high. He is very likable from a character standpoint, so I don't see his past haunting him too much. Super versatile, I can see him being a really good RT, but will be an excellent guard. I want him. Probably a 2nd rounder now.

Brian Winters, G/T, Kent St. Played LT in college, but with 32" arms will likely be a guard at the next level. Still, he has the athleticism you look for. A really sound technician. I see him as a great lunchpail lineman who you could plug in for years to come. Would be a steal in the 3rd round.

Hugh Thornton, G/T, Illinois. Mayock was calling his name all day long. He looks to be another fundamentally sound player. Has longer arms that Winters, but only 6'3", so will probably be a guard as well. 4th/5th round.

Brian Schwenke, C, Cal. Mayock raved about this kid all day long. One of those guys who doesn't have the great size or tangibles that you look for, but plays with a lot of heart and tenacity, and is fundamentally superior to most guys, which seems to make up for it. Needs to get stronger and lose the baby fat. Not sure where to project him...4-6 maybe?

Shepard is a terrible route runner from what I can tell. He's fast enough to be draftable and can return but that may be his nfl calling.

Poyer is all CB. He'll run in the mid 4.4s. And I think he's a top 50 pick.

I love Greene. Not sure what u were expecting. Wasnt really a LB friendly game. The DLs were so dominant and they aren't really involved in the pass game in this type of setting. I think he's this years Lavonte David. He will go to the next level and just make tackles.