Where do you stand on Trump 4 years later?

I thought this might be an interesting time for a poll now that we have had some time to see Trump in action.

My view back then was, if Trump has just a 5% chance of being decent, that is 5% more than there would be with Hillary Clinton. I can say I am very happy now that Trump beat Clinton.

My first presidential vote was 1988 and I chose Bush over Dukakis but the decision making was very immature. Trump was the first time I voted for a Republican presidential candidate since 1988.

While Trump is very far from Ron Paul, I still see him as much preferable to today's Democrats. Unfortunately I will never get to see a libertarian president. Meanwhile I get to at least enjoy watching the Democrats and the liberal media freakout as they lose power in America. Sure beats the hell out of more Bush, Clinton, Bush, Obama crap.

Citizen of Arizona
@cleaner4d4

I am a libertarian. I am advocating everyone enjoy maximum freedom on both personal and economic issues as long as they do not bring violence unto others.

I thought Trump would be as bad as Hitlery or not enough better to not be the lesser of two evils that boils the frog slowly.
He has vastly outperformed my expectations and I have reason to hope he will keep improving.

Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

Robert Heinlein

Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

Groucho Marx

I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

Linus, from the Peanuts comic

You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

Alexis de Torqueville

Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

Except as to the rule of appointment, the United States have an indefinite discretion to make requisitions for men and money; but they have no authority to raise either by regulations extending to the individual citizens of America.

He is not a good president, but considering the long line of goofballs occupying that office in my lifetime, he probably the best.

My dad would always say to me, As long as you are facing the right direction, all you have to do is keep walking. It seems like from your assessment, Trump as president is facing the right direction, is this a fair understanding of your take on Trump?

He is not a good president, but considering the long line of goofballs occupying that office in my lifetime, he probably the best.

This is much how I look at it. Trump doesn't seem to give much regard to the Constitution, but then none of the other douches in D.C. do either. As far as challenging the status quo, he is doing good work. I can't think of anyone else that actually got Planned Parenthood to withdraw from Title X.

Citizen of Arizona
@cleaner4d4

I am a libertarian. I am advocating everyone enjoy maximum freedom on both personal and economic issues as long as they do not bring violence unto others.

Big Gov Trump has a more or less 50% chance of winning, and it doesn't really matter whether he wins or not.

Spending and monetary policy will be the same: i.e. extremely destructive.

I'll find something more entertaining to watch than the election.

Something more entertaining than watching liberals cry and scream at the sky? Man you are missing out on on a ton of fun.

Just because we will never see someone as great as Ron Paul in the White House doesn't mean there isn't a bright side. Controlling our border matters, saving babies matters, stopping communists maters, exposing FISA abuse matters, exposing the FBI matters, exposing John Brennan matters, exposing CNN matters, etc.

Dying in your sleep or dying falling into a wood chipper both end the same, but one is certainly more desirable to me. There is no draining of the swamp, it will always exist but at least causing them some discomfort and setting them back years is something fun to watch. At least millions more Republican voters now see what we were talking about back in 2007 and 2008. I don't know what you were doing but it was painful to learn that we are a tiny minority of voters.

Citizen of Arizona
@cleaner4d4

I am a libertarian. I am advocating everyone enjoy maximum freedom on both personal and economic issues as long as they do not bring violence unto others.

Something more entertaining than watching liberals cry and scream at the sky? Man you are missing out on on a ton of fun.

Just because we will never see someone as great as Ron Paul in the White House doesn't mean there isn't a bright side. Controlling our border matters, saving babies matters, stopping communists maters, exposing FISA abuse matters, exposing the FBI matters, exposing John Brennan matters, exposing CNN matters, etc.

Dying in your sleep or dying falling into a wood chipper both end the same, but one is certainly more desirable to me. There is no draining of the swamp, it will always exist but at least causing them some discomfort and setting them back years is something fun to watch. At least millions more Republican voters now see what we were talking about back in 2007 and 2008. I don't know what you were doing but it was painful to learn that we are a tiny minority of voters.

...by voting for people who increase the multi-trillion dollar government budget every year.

LOL, of course my horse.

"Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want, and deserve to get it good and hard."

I voted for President Trump in '16 and I will vote for him again. Hillary dressed like Mao and would have been worst than chairman Mao. I believe President Trump loves this country and wants to get us on the right track again. Who else, in this day and age, would risk their Lives, Fortunes, and sacred Honor for this country?"

Proverbs 29:18
"Where there is no vision, the people perish: but he that keepeth the law, happy is he."

Hosea 4:6
"My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge: because thou hast rejected knowledge, I will also reject thee, that thou shalt be no priest to me: seeing thou hast forgotten the law of thy God, I will also forget thy children."

"No one is useless in this world who lightens the burdens of another.” ~ Charles Dickens

...by voting for people who increase the multi-trillion dollar government budget every year.

LOL, of course my horse.

Don't vote or vote for the Libertarian Party candidate then. Unfortunately the LP has gone backwards and is a complete waste of time.

Personally I like Republican voters much more than Democrat voters in general. At least with them it might be possible to force Republican politicians get spending under control. Not likely, but the only chance that I can see.

Originally Posted by donnay

I voted for President Trump in '16 and I will vote for him again. Hillary dressed like Mao and would have been worst than chairman Mao. I believe President Trump loves this country and wants to get us on the right track again. Who else, in this day and age, would risk their Lives, Fortunes, and sacred Honor for this country?"

I think Trump is genuine in his love for this country. I also think he is working circle around the typical politicians and they can't handle it.

Citizen of Arizona
@cleaner4d4

I am a libertarian. I am advocating everyone enjoy maximum freedom on both personal and economic issues as long as they do not bring violence unto others.

One should judge a politician not by the friends he keeps, but by his enemies. And Trump still has all the right enemies:

Most of the Mainstream, establishment media - especially CNN

Career Washington bureaucrats - also known as the Deep State

Do-nothing Democrats

Leftwing Lunatics, also known as Liberal Nutjobs

I voted for him in 2016 as a disrupter, have been pleased with his disruption, and probably will in 2020 barring any unforeseen circumstances.

I think this is pretty fair. I was hoping Trump's lack of being a politician would disrupt things and it certainly appears to be the case. The way the media and DC deep state are viciously going after Trumps means he is hurting them. I like that because CNN and the gang are the enemy of liberty.

Citizen of Arizona
@cleaner4d4

I am a libertarian. I am advocating everyone enjoy maximum freedom on both personal and economic issues as long as they do not bring violence unto others.

One should judge a politician not by the friends he keeps, but by his enemies. And Trump still has all the right enemies:

Most of the Mainstream, establishment media - especially CNN

Career Washington bureaucrats - also known as the Deep State

Do-nothing Democrats

Leftwing Lunatics, also known as Liberal Nutjobs

I voted for him in 2016 as a disrupter, have been pleased with his disruption, and probably will in 2020 barring any unforeseen circumstances.

The twist is the first 3 applies to Bernie and the 4th can be switched from left wing to right wing. Are you going to vote for Bernie now if he was running against a say McCain? ofc not, you still have to look at his policies and see that it is big govt all the way.

The twist is the first 3 applies to Bernie and the 4th can be switched from left wing to right wing. Are you going to vote for Bernie now if he was running against a say McCain? ofc not, you still have to look at his policies and see that it is big govt all the way.

I would say this is accurate. The biggest difference I see in the 2 disrupters is that Bernie and his voters despise the U.S. Constitution, while Trump and his voters support the Constitution at least in part.

It is hard to find people outside of libertarians that support the Constitution to the degree that most of us here do. Republican voters are much closer to libertarians than liberals and socialists. Ron Paul asked me to join with Republicans and I am now glad that I did, they are a much better ally than the communist left.

Citizen of Arizona
@cleaner4d4

I am a libertarian. I am advocating everyone enjoy maximum freedom on both personal and economic issues as long as they do not bring violence unto others.

This is much how I look at it. Trump doesn't seem to give much regard to the Constitution, but then none of the other douches in D.C. do either. As far as challenging the status quo, he is doing good work. I can't think of anyone else that actually got Planned Parenthood to withdraw from Title X.

There are good things, bad things and mixed things that he has done. Instead of discussing the nuances of his actions, the threads turn into people either canonizing or demonizing him.

I said I would vote for him if he actually ended a war. However, Tulsi was the only candidate for the DNC with a shred of sanity. I feel forced to stand against a party who openly call for socialism, gun confiscation, paid abortion for male to female transgenders-- The choice is between a jackass and the insane. I will take the jackass.

I would say this is accurate. The biggest difference I see in the 2 disrupters is that Bernie and his voters despise the U.S. Constitution, while Trump and his voters support the Constitution at least in part.

It is hard to find people outside of libertarians that support the Constitution to the degree that most of us here do. Republican voters are much closer to libertarians than liberals and socialists. Ron Paul asked me to join with Republicans and I am now glad that I did, they are a much better ally than the communist left.

Good point, Trump has more supporters that pay attention to the constitution than Bernie and you cannot ignore this. But does the candidate himself care about the constitution and does he listen to his supporters. I think Trump cares more about the praises he gets from the MSM and establishment crowd than the messages he gets from the supporters and that alone in my mind cancels out this advantage. And we also know that he doesn't care about the constitution, he would do what he feel is right regardless of the constraints set by the constitution.

Also, Bernie is not a communist, when you call every left winger and socialist a communist, you will run out of names when a real communist shows up

Good point, Trump has more supporters that pay attention to the constitution than Bernie and you cannot ignore this. But does the candidate himself care about the constitution and does he listen to his supporters. I think Trump cares more about the praises he gets from the MSM and establishment crowd than the messages he gets from the supporters and that alone in my mind cancels out this advantage. And we also know that he doesn't care about the constitution, he would do what he feel is right regardless of the constraints set by the constitution.

Also, Bernie is not a communist, when you call every left winger and socialist a communist, you will run out of names when a real communist shows up

I disagree with you here. I think Trump care more about regular people than the approval of media employees and/or the establishment. That seems super obvious to me.

If Bernie isn't a communist then you are splitting tiny hairs. He says he is a democratic socialist. How is that different from a communist? He wants a mob to vote to seize the mean of production? What are these nuances that separate Bernie from Fidel Castro?

Even if there is a tiny difference between Bernie and Castro, it seems obvious to me that socialism is just a stepping stone to communism. Am I wrong?

Citizen of Arizona
@cleaner4d4

I am a libertarian. I am advocating everyone enjoy maximum freedom on both personal and economic issues as long as they do not bring violence unto others.

Proverbs 29:18
"Where there is no vision, the people perish: but he that keepeth the law, happy is he."

Hosea 4:6
"My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge: because thou hast rejected knowledge, I will also reject thee, that thou shalt be no priest to me: seeing thou hast forgotten the law of thy God, I will also forget thy children."

"No one is useless in this world who lightens the burdens of another.” ~ Charles Dickens