tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2659185529521347740.post443947265465298582..comments2010-09-03T21:00:17.506-04:00Comments on John Amodea's Blog: What Have We Done to Our Game?, Part FourJohn Amodeahttp://www.blogger.com/profile/13515675031770699457noreply@blogger.comBlogger15125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2659185529521347740.post-55700229408272591812008-12-29T23:12:00.000-05:002008-12-29T23:12:00.000-05:00"Sure the field owners need to enforce the rules a..."Sure the field owners need to enforce the rules and ensure they hire quality staff, BUT it is the "Experienced" players duty to not cheat, call out good shots, and help expand the sport."<BR/><BR/>Sure, and we could all stand in a circle, hold hands and sing Kumbaya.<BR/><BR/>It would be great if all players, or even all experienced players played with honour, but that's sort of like asking all drivers on the planet to drive within the speed limit because it would save lives. It would be nice, but it's just not going to happen. Asking everyone to play nice and lead by good example certainly is not a viable solution for fixing the industry's problems. I wish it were but there are just way too many dirtbags in the world, and in this game. The nature of our game (shooting projectiles that can potentially inflict pain on other people) seems ta attract its fair share.Reinernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2659185529521347740.post-29641253244759643082008-12-29T10:20:00.000-05:002008-12-29T10:20:00.000-05:00I have to agree with Revrend. I too play on a SPP...I have to agree with Revrend. I too play on a SPPL / Scenario Team and we as a team make the same choice (shoot what is being shot). As a team the only time our markers see any kind of Ramp mode may be in a SPPL match, but other than that we mostly shoot semi. Sure the field owners need to enforce the rules and ensure they hire quality staff, BUT it is the "Experienced" players duty to not cheat, call out good shots, and help expand the sport.Whiskeynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2659185529521347740.post-77834902845365022072008-12-27T22:47:00.000-05:002008-12-27T22:47:00.000-05:00I play for a well known SPPL, Bigame and local sce...I play for a well known SPPL, Bigame and local scenario tourney team. We have a standing rule that applies for most games ( Not tourney play ) Shoot what is being shot at you.If a player is using a ramp mode thats what he gets back if its semi than we shoot semi. When my guys play big games or walkons they use semi or bust out the pumps and pistols. If a rookie player shoots us we call "nice shot" or shake his hand and leave the field. We are there to make paintball fun. It proves nothing in scenario shooting 3 cases a game. Well i guess it proves you cant aim.Revrendhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17112704256292511573noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2659185529521347740.post-75145343445889710412008-12-27T21:13:00.000-05:002008-12-27T21:13:00.000-05:00Ironic that Smart Parts, the one company that argu...Ironic that Smart Parts, the one company that arguably has been the forefront of market saturation (first "affordable electro in the ION, in it's day, the Impulse was affordable when compared to other electros, etc.)...<BR/><BR/>Ironic that they were the last team to wear camo in tournaments. They held out for quite a long time when compared to other teams....<BR/><BR/>JakeJakenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2659185529521347740.post-58922455167814741002008-12-27T21:01:00.000-05:002008-12-27T21:01:00.000-05:00So, isn't there a national association of field ow...So, isn't there a national association of field owners yet?<BR/><BR/>It's about time that paintball had a national governing body (NGB), like other sports, that focuses on the development of the amateur and recreational part of the sport. It doesn't make sense that the industry focuses so much on the professional team and the wannabe-pros when those people are such a small percentage of the sport.paintdudenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2659185529521347740.post-58943395591964704532008-12-27T18:09:00.000-05:002008-12-27T18:09:00.000-05:00"I would blame the attitude of the players at a fi..."I would blame the attitude of the players at a field on the field owner, no matter what the fomat (woods vs. tourney-style, whatever).<BR/><BR/>The format isn't the problem. Actually, I think paintball has been around long enough in the public conciousness, it doesn't matter what it looks like. The field owners are ones that need start paying attention to whether new players have a good experience. High ROF, bunkering, not enforcing FPS, letting experience players beat up on new players. Those practices clearly do not cut it."<BR/><BR/>As a fieldowner, I agree completely. However...., it is very difficult to get thousands of fieldowners all on the same page. This is where a little guidance from an industry body, or trade association or something along that line would be very useful. How can we get the word out and convince fieldowners to stsp up, especially when many fieldowners are former players that thrived on that kind of activity themselves. It's a very difficult thing to accomplish.Reinernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2659185529521347740.post-26821763601160448792008-12-27T17:23:00.000-05:002008-12-27T17:23:00.000-05:00I would blame the attitude of the players at a fie...I would blame the attitude of the players at a field on the field owner, no matter what the fomat (woods vs. tourney-style, whatever).<BR/><BR/>At the field that I frequent, we play mainly speedball, although they have some wooded fields. However, the owners make a point of strictly enforcing safety rules and keeping an eye on potential troublemakers. If a team shows up, they are either separated from the rentals players or not allowed to stay together. Everyone is split into two teams, with electro guns being separated to make sure the teams are even.<BR/><BR/>The referees are hired employees, not some tourney team trading their weekend for practice paint. Players that have a bad attitude or play dangerously (such as overshooting) can be immdiately ejected, no apologies. A 20-foot rule is strictly enforced... no bunkering! Point-blank shots is another problem with the sport that is not discussed enough. <BR/><BR/>The other fields at which I've played, it seems like the owners don't care how the players are behaving on the field. The referees are tournament players who don't care what happens on the field. If some new kid gets bunkered with 15 ramped shots to the neck, that's part of the game! Grow a pair!<BR/><BR/>The format isn't the problem. Actually, I think paintball has been around long enough in the public conciousness, it doesn't matter what it looks like. The field owners are ones that need start paying attention to whether new players have a good experience. High ROF, bunkering, not enforcing FPS, letting experience players beat up on new players. Those practices clearly do not cut it.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2659185529521347740.post-90762010488125275212008-12-27T12:47:00.000-05:002008-12-27T12:47:00.000-05:00John,good piece.My own conclusion is that until we...John,<BR/><BR/>good piece.<BR/><BR/>My own conclusion is that until we make the relationship between local business, high-profile events and industry support a 'circular' relationship, we'll continue to bleed money.<BR/><BR/>Each element must be given its due, and must be made to deliver its contribution and receive an equal amount of the benefits.<BR/><BR/>Events should only be support by the industry if those events are going to deliver on promotion and marketing of the sport - and specifically on the local businesses.<BR/><BR/>Local businesses must agree to step up to certain minimal standards in order to receive promotion from the headliner events - and that support must be direct.<BR/><BR/>Industry gets its return through increased sales at those local businesses.<BR/><BR/>In all cases, it is imperative that the industry focus on events and not on teams. Yes, some upper-level teams will probably suffer as a result, but they are also the teams that are in the best position to make up for the loss by obtaining support from outside the industry. Meanwhile, if all of the dollars that were given to teams were given to events instead, the vast majority of people who want to attend would see a corresponding drop in the expense of doing so.<BR/><BR/>But once again, everyone in the chain has got to 'get something' for participating; demonstrated return on the investment, either in a reduction in costs or an increase in revenue.Crotchety Old Fanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02092745636011711266noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2659185529521347740.post-52934364788944238612008-12-27T07:59:00.000-05:002008-12-27T07:59:00.000-05:00Hey guys, to be clear I have no problem with a fie...Hey guys, to be clear I have no problem with a field running one type of paintball game if that's what you do best. But I think if the one type of game you run caters to upper level players, then you have issues. You'll never keep new players, but I think you already know that.John Amodeahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13515675031770699457noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2659185529521347740.post-75330701399908616322008-12-27T01:50:00.000-05:002008-12-27T01:50:00.000-05:00Mick said "Once I stopped trying to please everyon...Mick said "Once I stopped trying to please everyone and figured out where 95 percent of the business was coming from the clouds parted, the seas calmed and peace prevailed. Teachers say it best - 5 percent will often be 95 percent of your headaches.<BR/><BR/>My biggest headache now is Mil-sim. We tried to get away from the military image for good reasons. Fortunately (?) times are different now then post Vietnam but it still worries me to see a 12 year old come out of the woods with an AK."<BR/><BR/>I wouldn't have a problem with Milsim if most of the Milsim players didn't want to shoot huge volumes of paintballs.<BR/><BR/>I had one local Milsim group ask me if they could make our field their home field. All they wanted was a discount on paint and they promised they would come fairly often and shoot lots of paint when they were there. They didn't know it, but they were barking at the wrong tree. The last thing I want at my field is a bunch of guys shooting tons of paintballs and changing the atmosphere at our field. It's not a whole lot better than mixing your recball players with tournament type players in the staging area.Reinernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2659185529521347740.post-11982458449239783432008-12-27T01:23:00.000-05:002008-12-27T01:23:00.000-05:00While you can mix game types at one location, you ...While you can mix game types at one location, you cannot mix player types (and equipment =/= player type).<BR/><BR/>As a rec player, I love woodsball and "rec" speedball. But I don't like to play either with tourney types and/or wannabes. Unfortunately, it only take a small handful of a-hole players to ruin any field. And more often than not, it is tourney/wannabes crowd that has the bad apples that end up causing casual players to never return. And their actions in the staging area (attitude, blowing-up over a rec game, etc.) affect casual players as much as their actions on the field. I'm sure many fields add a spellball type field to cater to the tourney crowd, but in the end that can discourage others from even showing up.<BR/><BR/>I have met tourney/wannabes that know how to turn it off when playing rec, but it seems to be rare. Especially if they are there with "their team".<BR/><BR/>Frankly, the Internet doesn't help all that much either. Online we can (and often are) be faceless idiots. Doing so while talking up playing at field X, make others who read the post assume everyone at the field has that attitude. I've been trying to find a couple of local fields to play at now that I have "returned" after ~8 years away from the sport. Many of the field's websites and corresponding forums and pictures are a real turn off to me.Tonyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09087725037193200782noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2659185529521347740.post-56562509737595197732008-12-27T00:48:00.000-05:002008-12-27T00:48:00.000-05:00Half way through the reading of this part four I m...Half way through the reading of this part four I must have been feeling the same thing Reiner was feeling. Oh my, is Amoeda talking about me? am I the ruin of paintball?<BR/><BR/>Diversity?!? Been there. Done that. Exactly!<BR/><BR/>Once I stopped trying to please everyone and figured out where 95 percent of the business was coming from the clouds parted, the seas calmed and peace prevailed. Teachers say it best - 5 percent will often be 95 percent of your headaches.<BR/><BR/>My biggest headache now is Mil-sim. We tried to get away from the military image for good reasons. Fortunately (?) times are different now then post Vietnam but it still worries me to see a 12 year old come out of the woods with an AK.<BR/><BR/>It's hardly a pun anymore when we say we are the worst at shooting ourselves in the foot.Mickhttp://www.tsquarepaintball.blogspot.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2659185529521347740.post-47583033196734047622008-12-26T22:50:00.000-05:002008-12-26T22:50:00.000-05:00This is a great thing to come home to and read Joh...This is a great thing to come home to and read John. I, myself, try to play recreational paintball as often as possible... even though i'm very serious about tournament paintball. I'm always trying to get my teamates to come out to recreational events like Full Field Friday or scenario/mission games. Rec ball is definitely the thing to support because I personally know it's the "funner" half of the sport. Tournament paintball is super fun... but it can get to be too much sometimes. I can't wait till the next recreational event because it always reminds me that paintball is about fun... it's not just winwinwinwinordie.<BR/><BR/>Anyway... Keep up the great work John. I'm sure i'll support you in anything you come up with and wouldn't mind being involved eather! I'll do anything to help my favorite sport grow!Aaron Kazhttp://www.myspace.com/kazkid8noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2659185529521347740.post-46971715595773458612008-12-26T22:11:00.000-05:002008-12-26T22:11:00.000-05:00As a fieldowner with a relatively successful field...As a fieldowner with a relatively successful field, I am not diversifying into the speedball business. Been there, done that, hurt my business, not going there again.<BR/><BR/>I am a firm believer that the most successful fields are the ones that specialize. I have no problem with fieldowners specializing in speedball if that is what they are interested in. I am not interested in mixing the two (recreational woodsball played for fun &amp; competitive speedball) in the hopes of exposing each to the other and finding a happy middle ground. My recreational paintball business is not broken, so I am not going to fix it.<BR/><BR/>Those that do have broken recreational paintball businesses aren&#39;t going to fix them by introducing speedball at their facility. Those that have broken speedball businesses aren&#39;t going to fix them by introducing recreational paintball players to their fields. If a field has the ability to diversify, but keep the two major types of players totally separate (run like two separate businesses), then I don’t have a problem with it and it might help their business and maybe even the industry. But totally mixing the two is a mistake in my opinion and will lead to a less successful business, and by extension, a less successful industry.<BR/><BR/>Both forms of paintball have to be made more fun to play. Both forms of paintball need to be &quot;less extreme&quot;. Speedball has for quite a few years now been too extreme for many (not all obviously) and recreational paintball, with the aid of technology developed for speedball, has also become too extreme for many.<BR/><BR/>Bring down the number of paintballs shot (that’s total number shot, not ROF) in both formats, but especially recreational paintball, and the industry will heal itself. Paintball, when played right is a lot of fun. We all know that. We need to just get it to the point where it&#39;s fun again for the majority of the general public (not the majority now playing, because that is not the same thing).<BR/><BR/>The big problem is that we only hear from the players currently involved in paintball. The ones that have either left or tried paintball once and didn&#39;t come back because they didn&#39;t like what they participated in, are silent. They are not around in these blogs and on paintball forums to speak up. They, along with people who have yet not tried paintball, are however, the most important people to the future of our industry.Reinernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2659185529521347740.post-21771133657588132792008-12-26T19:03:00.000-05:002008-12-26T19:03:00.000-05:00This is what I have been doing on my end. www.tser...This is what I have been doing on my end. www.tseries.ca and Kee would like to see it south of the boarder in 09Revrendhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17112704256292511573noreply@blogger.com