I would contact the seller first and ask what was going on at the time of packing? Don't tell him there isn't any damage but now you're concerned that they are damaged (micro-fractures). Maybe he'll give some money back, or offer a complete refund since you're not satisfied. I think that's fair. Hold off on filing your feedback and straighten stuff like this out first, and if you're not satisfied, then put him on notice that you will be filing negative feedback.

Believe it or not, Most people really do not realize what UPS and FEDEX shipping involves.
They think that a driver picks up their package and he places it on a pillow on the truck.
They believe that he then carefully oversees that the package gets personally delivered to the recipient on the other side of the planet.

They have no idea that thousands of people handle each one of the millions of boxes a day while they are thrown onto conveyer belts and loaded and unloaded onto numerous transportation vessels!

People see the TV ads of the friendly driver that takes the box and treats it like it was the remains of a dear relative.

I have no intention of lying. But there actually could be micro-fractures I'm not seeing. That doesn't improve my mood over the matter.

That could be argued over any cymbal bought from a store though (a consumer would have no idea at all how gear is transported or treated from factory to retail outlet). The unfortunate thing is that if it can't be seen, it can't be proven.

I'm not saying the packageing is acceptable and I'm not saying that you have no right to be pissed, but I am saying that other than highlighting the lack of effort to both the seller and any other potential buyer, there's not a lot more you can do.

Firstly, the Postal Service Priority Mail is the best route to ship anything, ever. USPS treats Priority Mail items like the Holy Grail. Every step of the way, Priority Mail is handled seperate from the regular mail, and parcels ... there is no throwing boxes across the room, no conveyor belts dropping 80 lb. boxes on top of 10 lb. boxes.

That happens at UPS, Fed Ex., and regular parcel post. Priority Mail gets handled differently, every step of the way. It never gets mingled in with the thousands and thousands of "regular" parcels and flats that the P.O. handles every day. That's how they can get it from L.A. to Boston in 2 or 3 days. And track it, every step of the way.

The simple fact that the hats arrived to you, despite the poor (no) packing job, attests to how well the P.O. treats Priority Mail.

O.K. That aside, you can see nothing wrong with the cymbals. No marks, dents, scratches, cracks, flat spots. Nadda. But you imagine that they might have undergone somekind of unseen trama.

How 'bout you leave no feedback ... what-so-ever...

Not a negative. Not a neutral. Not a positive. Don't leave any. Simple. Move on. Enjoy your hi-hats. If you leave "a blistering negative just for justice's sake" on the seller, and you wind up playing those hats for 20 years .... kinda makes you look like a chucklehead, of sorts.

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This seat does not recline as per Federal Aviation Regulation 121.310 (f)(3)

Not a negative. Not a neutral. Not a positive. Don't leave any. Simple. Move on. Enjoy your hi-hats. If you leave "a blistering negative just for justice's sake" on the seller, and you wind up playing those hats for 20 years .... kinda makes you look like a chucklehead, of sorts.

Sorry but i don't agree with that. The seller, and any potential customers of his, needs to know these things. Ekim may have got lucky that the hats weren't damaged, but what happens when the next guy that buys a cymbal from the seller gets a damaged one. It could end up being a very big mess trying to get the seller to refund the money or replace the cymbal. By leaving a negative feedback, it lets potential customers know any problems that may occur, and if they aren't willing to take a risk, can find another seller.

Sorry but i don't agree with that. The seller, and any potential customers of his, needs to know these things. Ekim may have got lucky that the hats weren't damaged, but what happens when the next guy that buys a cymbal from the seller gets a damaged one. It could end up being a very big mess trying to get the seller to refund the money or replace the cymbal. By leaving a negative feedback, it lets potential customers know any problems that may occur, and if they aren't willing to take a risk, can find another seller.

I agree. Let the seller know that you were not satisfied with his "packaging" methods, and leave a clear description of what happened on his feedback so the next guy knows what he's getting into.

Firstly, the Postal Service Priority Mail is the best route to ship anything, ever.

+1 on that, as much as possible I try to convince my ebay seller to send priority mail.
It arrives quicker than UPS fed-ex etc...time and time again priority mail has proven faster delivery (for me) than any other method.

And guess what? The K mastersounds I got off ebay recently arrived in the packaging the OP described - priority flat parcel NO padding whatsoever....what were they thinking? I would never do that with a $250 pair of hats!!!!! luckily they were not damaged...but thats priority mail for ya...

People take negative feedback really seriously. I got into once with someone. I think "neutral" is an option. If not, then just leave positive feedback and leave a note about packaging. Look at it this way, did you get what you paid for? Yes... The transaction took place technically as it should have. If you have a beef about the way it was packaged, that's understandable, but it doesn't warrant caustic negative feedback in my mind.

I would simply tell the truth. The seller failed to adequately package the item. The next person who buys from them will now be able to see they need to ask for better packing. Don't view it in terms of positive or negative - simply what is the truth.

I got my A Custom MS hats from someone that shipped exactly the same way and I pondered leaving a neg feedback, but that's pretty damaging to a seller. I thought about sending him a note to let him know that I didn't think that was cool, but ultimately decided not to leave any feedback.

I got my A Custom MS hats from someone that shipped exactly the same way and I pondered leaving a neg feedback, but that's pretty damaging to a seller. I thought about sending him a note to let him know that I didn't think that was cool, but ultimately decided not to leave any feedback.

Nice hats, too btw...

Seems to me that, despite the light packaging, cymbals are making it through okay. Has anyone had an experience where the cymbals have arrived damaged?

Seems to me that, despite the light packaging, cymbals are making it through okay. Has anyone had an experience where the cymbals have arrived damaged?

Yep......a new Avedis 16" med thin arrived with the smallest of crimps in the sound edge. The box(hmmm...??) was crushed right in the area of the damage. I weighed up the hassle of return etc, and decided that the nick is that small and the price of the cymbal that cheap, that I wouldn't do anything about it.

I told the seller via message and wrote "poorly packaged" in the feedback section and went about my business. Great cymbal fwiw, if the crimp negatively affects the sound, then it's a better ear than mine who'll pick it up.

Yep......a new Avedis 16" med thin arrived with the smallest of crimps in the sound edge. The box(hmmm...??) was crushed right in the area of the damage. I weighed up the hassle of return etc, and decided that the nick is that small and the price of the cymbal that cheap, that I wouldn't do anything about it.

I told the seller via message and wrote "poorly packaged" in the feedback section and went about my business. Great cymbal fwiw, if the crimp negatively affects the sound, then it's a better ear than mine who'll pick it up.

... and that was boxed.

Maybe the post office should keep a supply of unwanted Pitch Blacks and ZBTs to sell to eBayer drummers needing simbolle protectors for postage? Frisbees would probably do the job for splashes.

Ok, in order to promote fairness to boxes the world over....let's not use the word "box". We'll call it a cardboard envelope for the sake of accuracy. I've received them like this before....just not quite enought bubble wrap (especially around the sound edge) on this delivery. Pleasant enough seller, but I'm unlikely to buy from him again.

Ok, in order to promote fairness to boxes the world over....let's not use the word "box". We'll call it a cardboard envelope for the sake of accuracy. I've received them like this before....just not quite enought bubble wrap (especially around the sound edge) on this delivery. Pleasant enough seller, but I'm unlikely to buy from him again.

And I'm sure boxes the world over will breathe a sigh of relief at this vindication :)

Back in the day, it actually mattered if you put off a buyer. Now it's a matter of plenty more fish in the sea. That's a case for making a comment about the cymbals hanging out of the packaging on delivery.

It doesn't need to be a total dis or to use pejorative words like "bad" or "poor" .... just a short description of what happened.

I think you've already done it, mate. What more can you do? By your own admission, the hats are fine. You've stated your case to the seller......whether he listens or not is not your cross to carry. Other than move on, enjoy your hats and don't buy from him again, I'm not sure what's left.

I replied with my feelings on the matter: That his packaging was woefully inadequate and I was very unhappy.

Good on you. Hopefully it was the same guy who sent me my hats (yeah, right!) and he won't be so sloppy next time. In any case, leaving no feedback doesn't hurt him like a neg would, but it doesn't reward him either. That seems appropriate.

Q: HELLO,I AM VERY SORRY HOW THEY WERE SENT OUT,DO TO MY JOB I AM OUT OF TOWN ALOT AND I HAVE MY PARTNER SEND THINGS OUT WHEN I AM GONE..HE HAD TOLD ME HOW HE SENT THEM AND I DO AGREE,HE HAD NO CLUE WHAT HE WAS DOING,BUT I DO PROMISE YOU THAT THERE ARE NO MICRO-CRACKS,THEY ARE BRAND NEW,SOUND GREAT,AND ONCE AGIAN I AM SORRY,I SHOULD OF HAD BETTER INSTUCTIONS FOR HIM..THANK YOU..JAY

Bad enough situation already, now I feel insulted. He "promises" me that there is no damage? I'm impressed with his psychic powers.

An honest man would have just said that he was sorry that he F..d up and that he will never ship cymbals that way again.
The honest man would have also said that if you want to, You can return the cymbals for a refund.
This seller is scum. His reply to you was crap!
Bash him good on your feedback!

The next time that you receive a package that is damaged, Simply refuse it and start a damage claim with the company that delivered it.
This will set a process in motion that will lead you to recourse.
The shipping company will investigate and they will note if the item was not properly boxed for shipping.
Take pictures also of the damaged box without opening it.

The only question I have left is to ask you, what is your preferred end result here? Did you want to flick them back and get a refund? If so, have you told/asked him?

Expressing complaints to the forum is great and I'm in no way implying that you shouldn't do so, but what's the point if you won't convey your feelings to the seller? At the end of the day DW members can't solve this issue....only the seller can do that. Your complaints are certainly warranted, but if you aren't gonna direct them to the one person who can actually solve them, then what is it that you hope to acheive?

I sincerely hope you don't see this as me trying to be an antagonistic prick as it's not my intention, but I genuinely believe some practicality is called for here. I really don't get what you're are trying to acheive by telling us and not the seller. If your hats are fine, then they are fine.......play 'em and enjoy 'em. Why live your life on "potential" issues? It's possible you "might" get hit by a bus whilst crossing the road today....is that gonna stop you doing your thing? Of course not.

For mine, this is 'mountain out of a molehill' stuff. It's simple.....you've expressed your concerns. Leave a footnote via feedback and warn others he's not up to scratch with respect to packageing and enjoy your undamaged hats. As I said earlier.....worry about what "might be" if it ever eventuates.

Sorry, you can't leave negative or neutral Feedback for this seller until 7 days after purchase.
In the mean time, please contact the seller to try to work things out.

So, you didn't even try to contact the seller, to express your "dis-satisfaction, you waited for Jay to contact you. You say you're "I'm impressed with his psychic powers" ... well, you should be. He had to contact you, to find out "what was up". You got the hats on the 4th. A weeks gone by. Have you asked for a refund? Have you asked for a "partial refund"? Have you played the hats? Just curious, what brand/model are they, and how much money is at stake?

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This seat does not recline as per Federal Aviation Regulation 121.310 (f)(3)

They arrived. In a flat USPS Priority Mail cardboard envelope. ZERO padding whatsoever and the cymbals are coming out of the sides because they were not even secured inside the envelope.

Luckily there was no damage I can discover.

But the whole thing is sitting very badly with me right now. I made sure that I asked for insured shipping. I sure as hell didn't think I'd have to ask for the package to be... packaged.

I'm pondering my feedback options here. I feel like just posting a blistering negative just for justice's sake. To me, this is sheer irresponsibility with the customer's merchandise.

I have made mistakes in shipping (heck I shipping two cymbals to the wrong buyers at the same time) but I have never failed in at least trying to ensure the cymbals arrive unharmed.

Thoughts?

This has happened to me as well! Negative feedback has BIG ramifications on eBay si I wouldn't do that as you have stated - there was no damage!

Reputation is EVERYTHING on eBay. I can't tell you what to do but what I would do is leave a "1" on the detailed seller rating (when I leave the feedback). I also don't know whether I would do business with that seller again. If I did, I would ask questions beforehand like "Will these be shiped in a box?"

And, as an aside here, while I sell on Ebay and promote my items, I always take the step of packing the items I sell in a sturdy box and packing material as I know how I would feel if I received something which was broken in transit! Therefore, everything has a box, even if I have to buy one!

The seller sent me a message via eBay's messaging system asking me to leave feedback.

I replied with my feelings on the matter: That his packaging was woefully inadequate and I was very unhappy.

I did not indicate to him my course of action, leaving it open-ended.

And it's been over 24 hours and I've yet to receive any reply.

Still unsure on what to do.

And always handle it in a respectful manner, never in an accusatory manner laced with threats or insults. For all you know, he may actually have people who work for him who don't understand that cymbals, while made of metal (in their limited experience) are not indestructible, and packaged them up thinking "these can't be harmed and they never break". Not everyone is a drummer!

My message would be a simple, respectful message saying that, "while the cymbals arrived in good condition, I don't know if you were aware as to the manner in which they were shipped to me. They were shipped without much care as to the potential for damage and definitely not in a box as well as dunnage to prevent damage in transit."

Case in point, a couple of years ago, I had a tow truck driver show up to tow my truck for repair (it wouldn't start). When the tow truck driver show up and stated "I decided that if I got one more call about where I was at, I was just going to turn around and go home and leave you here!", I took a cue from the Coasters MD and just smiled and waived. And that wasn't easy!

Then after my truck was being repaired, I called my brother, who works for Progressive insurance and with whom the tow truck driver had a written, signed contract with, and told my brother that he may not be aware of this but.......and then related the story to my brother.

My brother had no idea that this would ever happen. He wasn't in that area of the company but he did let the right person know.

Moral of the story - give the guy the benefit of the doubt that he didn't know that this had happended. Let him know that you were disappointed about how they were shipped. If he is any kind of businessman at all, it will never happen again! There is just too much competition for your hard earned dollars! If he doesn't take care of business, business will take care of him!

The next time that you receive a package that is damaged, Simply refuse it and start a damage claim with the company that delivered it.
This will set a process in motion that will lead you to recourse.
The shipping company will investigate and they will note if the item was not properly boxed for shipping.
Take pictures also of the damaged box without opening it.

Sorry, you can't leave negative or neutral Feedback for this seller until 7 days after purchase.
In the mean time, please contact the seller to try to work things out.

So, you didn't even try to contact the seller, to express your "dis-satisfaction, you waited for Jay to contact you. You say you're "I'm impressed with his psychic powers" ... well, you should be. He had to contact you, to find out "what was up". You got the hats on the 4th. A weeks gone by. Have you asked for a refund? Have you asked for a "partial refund"? Have you played the hats? Just curious, what brand/model are they, and how much money is at stake?

The hats are Sabian Wil Calhoun Mad Hats, I dropped around $200. They play and sound fine. And they're pretty heavy hats so, most likely, they're not damaged.

When received, I was not in any sort of mood to reply with anything resembling civility. So I let the situation sit. But my thoughts on the subject were not improving with time, either.

Irresponsibility should not be rewarded, and other buyers should be made aware of this seller's inadequacies.

But at the same time, I have no provable injury, either. So maybe I am making a mountain out of a molehill.

Then again, the dude DID type in ALLCAPS so he really does deserve a negative hit on his feedback.

That means that someone behind the post office counter had to take the envelope from the seller and feel that what was inside was to heavy for that type of package.
The USPS counterperson probably did mention something to the seller and the seller decided to ship it in the priority mail envelope anyway.

The hats are Sabian Wil Calhoun Mad Hats, I dropped around $200. They play and sound fine. And they're pretty heavy hats so, most likely, they're not damaged.

Agreed. They are nice hats. And at a good price. And most likely they aren't damaged.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ekim

Irresponsibility should not be rewarded, and other buyers should be made aware of this seller's inadequacies.

And in the comments section of eBay feedback, you can mention his "irresponsibility" as a seller/packer/shipper. Positive feedback is a reward. Neutral feedback is not a reward. Negative feedback is "overkill" in this situation. You say so yourself .... you have no "provable injury".

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ekim

But at the same time, I have no provable injury, either. So maybe I am making a mountain out of a molehill.

Agreed, you are making a mountain out of a molehill.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ekim

Then again, the dude DID type in ALLCAPS so he really does deserve a negative hit on his feedback.

And here we go again, with this circular logic. Seems like you'll use any excuse to drop a negative on this guy. If the guys got 100 or better positive sales, 1 negative, that's 1% unhappy customers (or less) ... not that big of a deal.

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Can't say that this thread bothers me, in the least. You're the one who started this thread, not me. You're the one who's got this "drama on eBay" going on, not me. You're the one, who, in the first post of this thread, asked for ...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ekim

Thoughts?

And as Fleetwood Mac sang ..... "But don't ask me what I think of you
I might not give the answer that you want me to" .....
......

You asked for thoughts .... there you go ... you got mine. I've been a member of eBay for over 8 years. A feedback score of over 600 ... and 100% positive. And in 8 years, I've only had to drop 1 negative on a guy. And if and when a problem comes up .... I don't start a thread about it on Drummerworld. I just deal with it.

You, on the other hand, start off by calling your seller an idiot. For all you know, he could be a member of this forum. You also refer to eBay as evilBay. I guess that's "cute", or something. I kinda see it as "you had an attitude" coming right out of the chute, and if you were looking for "support" in your "decision" to drop "negative feedback" on your seller, sorry .... I ain't your man. I think it's BS and I ain't gonna co-sign it.

Life is a learning experience ... mostly you learn two things from people. What to do .... or what not to do. Maybe next time you have eBay drama, you won't start a thread on Drummerworld about it.

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this thread IS turning into drama, especially in the last 5 posts. you got bunches of suggestions of what to do, i understand your venting about a bad experience, the only thing left is to do what you feel is the best course of action.