Not sure if this belongs in GQ because there's probaby going to be some speculation, please move if appropriate.

So we've all known for a while that chimps, despite their tiny frames, are ridiculously strong.

Brock Lesnar was the UFC and WWE champion at one time. He's 265lbs and 6'3 in height. He's not the biggest guy or the strongest guy, but more people know him than someone like Magnus Ver Magnusson so I chose to use him as the example. Plus, he's agile for a big guy and has had wrestling and martial arts training.

Given Cecil's article about the strength of a chimp, Brock probably wouldn't have a chance in a straight up fight using power only. But are chimps a lot more durable than a human? Suppose it was a smaller chimp that was 90lbs instead of the 135 referenced in the article, wouldn't Brock's weight at least mitigate some of that strength? If he can get the chimp into some kind of hold like a full nelson, could it break out? What if we the chimp couldn't bite and had to simply punch and kick and tear with it's fingers, what's the likelyhood that Brock would be able to take some shots and then put his weight into his punches and knock the chimp down?

Chimps are a lot smaller target and have a lower center of gravity, but it's got short legs and no formal martial arts training. If they were to wrestle on the ground, would that be more of an advantage for Brock or the chimp? Would Brock even be able to pin the chimp down and start punching it in the face, or would the chimp be able to toss him off easily even from a disadvantaged position?

Besides being stronger, a chimp has no concept of anything other than all-out, lethal force.

I don't think thats true. Chimps fight each other all the time while obviously not trying to do permanent damage. They even sometimes attack their trainers and, while those attacks are sometimes lethal, their often not. And given the disparity in strenghth between the combatants, if chimps always attack all-out, pretty much all attacks on humans would end with a dead or crippled human.

If this hypothetical fight isn't meant to be to the death, then I think it's only fair that Brock be given a steel cup, kevlar gloves, and a helmet with face mask, and the chimp should be muzzled, to mitigate the cheap stuff.

If this hypothetical fight isn't meant to be to the death, then I think it's only fair that Brock be given a steel cup, kevlar gloves, and a helmet with face mask, and the chimp should be muzzled, to mitigate the cheap stuff.

Chimp. Lesnar recently suffered a resounding first round loss by TKO (strikes) to Cain Velasquez, who is rather famously not a chimp. Had Velasquez been a chimp, the fight would have likely been over even sooner.

Bruno Sammartino managed to survive a fight with a chimp. Depending on who's telling the story, A) He won, B) He lost, C) He was disqualified. The chimp may have been an orang, and would have been gloved, and possibly muzzled. All parties agreed that Bruno came out battered and bruised, and decided to stick to wrestling humans and George 'The Animal' Steele after that.

Brock is really big and really strong, and has some skill. If the chimp were untrained, Brock might be able to do some damage. But if the chimp could use his teeth, Brock will end up losing, just like in the UFC.

Of course the fact that the chimp is going to be far more vicious than Brock even if he's actually stronger. Of course we could pit the chimp against Haku, he's about the only wrestler that's could arguable one of the few wrestlers that comes up to that level of viciousness. (At least according to legend, supposedly gouging out eyes completely but the guy had it coming.)

At least part of the chimp's strength advantage comes from having its muscles attached to the bones further from the joint, giving it more strength-biased leverage. It's a trade-off, though: For the same reason, humans can move our limbs more quickly than can a chimp. With the right training, that speed advantage might be enough to give a skilled, athletic human an edge.

At least part of the chimp's strength advantage comes from having its muscles attached to the bones further from the joint, giving it more strength-biased leverage. It's a trade-off, though: For the same reason, humans can move our limbs more quickly than can a chimp. With the right training, that speed advantage might be enough to give a skilled, athletic human an edge.

Not, unfortunately, for Boo Weekley, one of my favorite golfers, at least versus an orangutan:

"One Friday night when I was 16, a bunch of us went to the county fair. A truck pulled in there, sort of away from the midway, and we watched a guy get out and put together a big cage he had in the bed of the truck. After he got the cage together, he put up a little table. Then he went to the cab of the truck and brings out an orangutan. He starts yelling: "Five to win fifty! Who can beat the orangutan? Pay $5 to try and get $50 if you can whip him!"

We'd never seen anything like that before. We decided that one of us had to try, and I drew the short straw. Five of us put up a buck each, and I gave the guy with the truck $5. Before helping me into the boxing gloves and headgear, he made me sign a waiver. Looking back, that was a bad sign.

I got in the ring. The orangutan didn't look like much. He came up about to my chest, though his arms were as long as he was tall. When the match started, he didn't lift his arms. He kept them down at his side and used them to pivot and follow me as I circled him like Muhammad Ali. I just didn't see how I could miss. My strategy was to fake with my right hand, and when the orangutan tried to block the punch, I'd throw my left.

My buddies were going wild. "Get him, Boo! Kick his butt!" They really wanted that $50. I moved in close and faked with my right, and that's the last thing I remember. I woke up bleeding in the back of a friend's pickup. The orangutan had knocked me cold with one punch, which I didn't even see coming. My friends thought it was hilarious. They said I had a glass jaw and called me "Glassy" the rest of the night.

After I came to, we watched this orangutan knock out guy after guy. Not one guy could lay a glove on him. He had reflexes like a cat, and later I learned that an orangutan can tear a guy's arm off."

The chimp would tear him to ribbons. Everyone is focusing on the chimps superior strength, forgetting that it is also more durable and agile and likely has far greater stamina (not sure).

Humans may have superior coordination but could even the strongest human strike with enough force to even cause any injury? I doubt it. As for wrestling or grappling techniques, not even possible. Even if you had a freakishly strong human like Magnus Magnusson who could possibly match the chimp's strength and grip, the chimp's superior agility would make it no contest.

Of course this whole debate assumes a very unfair fight. Since the chimp has all of its weapons and abilities and the human doesn't.

Besides being stronger, a chimp has no concept of anything other than all-out, lethal force.

I would never get in an argument with a chimp, not only because no one watching could tell the difference, but because a chimp could easily kill me if it wanted to. However, I think that since dogs and cats understand the concept of play fighting, I think chimps could be taught this too. I've seen bears, lions, tigers and orangutans do stunt work in movies that looked like wrestling. So a chimp probably could be taught to play wrestle. But I'd never do it.

Everyone is focusing on the chimps superior strength, forgetting that it is also more durable and agile and likely has far greater stamina (not sure).

I'm not sure, either. After all, chimps native habitat is the jungle, where you'll run out of tree or get cornered eventually when you're running. Whereas human's native habitat is the savannah, where we used to (and still can) follow herds of game animals for days until closing in for the kill or they drop dead of exhaustion.

At least part of the chimp's strength advantage comes from having its muscles attached to the bones further from the joint, giving it more strength-biased leverage. It's a trade-off, though: For the same reason, humans can move our limbs more quickly than can a chimp. With the right training, that speed advantage might be enough to give a skilled, athletic human an edge.

In a real fight, not a limited fight a chimp has been trained to do, where the chimp fears for his safety, in an enclosure so that Brock could not run away, the chimp will have a hormonal surge, including a lot of adrenalin, and I don't know what else, that will give him a huge advantage in strength and speed, and a complete disregard for pain. Any human would be torn apart. In the chimp attack CT not so long ago, the chimp was stabbed and hit with a shovel by his owner, and then shot multiple times by a policeman, before he returned to his house to die. It is unlikely that Brock Lesnar or any other human being could stand and all out attack by an enraged chimpanzee.

If you put boxing gloves and shoes on the chimp so he can't use his hands and feet to grab and gouge with, and you muzzle him so he can't bite, the maybe Brock stands a chance of using strength and skill to his advantage.

Now that this has been bumped, can I now suggest that the only way to truly defeat a chimp is with the Double Moe gambit?

Dammit, I wanted to be the first to mention this

Quote:

Originally Posted by Magiver

first blow is to the wind pipe with the sharp of the knuckles and the second to both temples with both fists at the same time. This is done because the energy of a singular blow is partially absorbed by the deflection of the head. Striking from both sides doubles the force of a single blow and with nowhere for the head to deflect it transmits all the energy. I'm sure there is probably some additional trauma to the brain from 2 intersecting shock waves but I'll leave that to engineers to explain.

Just about my favorite thread ever...

Long story short: If Brock spends a 2-month training camp with Magiver and the 3 Stooges, not a chimp in the verse that could stop him...

However, I think that since dogs and cats understand the concept of play fighting, I think chimps could be taught this too. I've seen bears, lions, tigers and orangutans do stunt work in movies that looked like wrestling. So a chimp probably could be taught to play wrestle.

If you abuse the hell out of them enough, a chimp can be taught to do just about anything.

Chimps are a lot smaller target and have a lower center of gravity, but it's got short legs and no formal martial arts training.

Even the bolded part is debatable, as wild chimps engage in organized violence against other chimp groups utilizing even basic guerrilla warfare tactics. This, plus the hunting of monkeys, give chimps plenty of training in using lethal force. I wouldn't be surprised if older guys actually showed their comrades some tricks of the trade concerning effective face-eating and genital-ripping techniques before embarking on death patrol.

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