SHTF vs TEOTWAWKI

What is the difference between the two? A lot of the time it seems people think the only difference is that SHTF will only last so long, where as TEOTWAWKI will be indefinite. And does TEOTWAWKI Have to reduce us back to the stone age, like is commonly believed? Or is TEOTWAWKI just a certain amount of S hitting the fan? Like when the US economy collapses that would be SHTF, but if the world's economy collapsed that would be TEOTWAWKI? I guess I'm just confused because some people seem to use them interchangeably.

Excellent topic for discussion. The ability to recognize the difference will likely be critical to your survival. The difference has many, many implications. Not all of them suitable for public discussion. But well worth thinking about, and making detailed plans for, in advance. Now is the time to think about it. When either one happens you probably will have neither the luxury of time nor the clarity of mind you enjoy now.

My opinion is that SHTF is recoverable. TEOTWAWKI is not.

Major power outages are SHTF. Floods and earthquakes too. Katrina was a SHTF. Help will arrive. Just have to keep going until it does.

EMP attack, meteor strike, Yellowstone caldera, etc qualify as TEOTWAWKI. No recovery or outside help anticipated or likely - at least not for a LONG time.

Both will have information blackouts so you may not know what happened if it's sudden and no warning. Katrina had ample warning, a freak solar storm knocking out power may have warning but a "golden bullet" asteroid might not.
SHTF is a local event effecting only a portion of a area, a few states for a few months and social groups remain intact with support coming in to help.
TEOTWAKI don't expect help ever coming and man to revert to his primitive form, major competition for basics and education/literacy take a back burner to survival.

As a side note after visiting New Orleans post Katrina when the city was first opened, having no cell service, no gas stations open, no stores to buy food and if you did not have it you won't get it. I did not see a human for hours and it felt like the opening from 28 days later. Even though my vehicle was stocked I still felt like I needed to leave before it got dark. And it smelled like a 3rd world country with open sewers, decay and trash everywhere.
Over ten years ago but the lesson is there.
1. Have extras
2. Plan to camp without power, electronic devices should be solar powered if you bring them.
3. Plan that someone else will want what you have (crime in roadside rest areas was so bad, people were stealing gas out of cars that people were sleeping in, fights common, etc)
4. Don't travel at night, post guards when you stop.
5. People you meet will be desperate and capable of anything, including children
6. Even in safe zones like the Super Dome crime was rampant (which is why they closed it and moved everyone away, gangs ruled and a major fail IMO)
7. The longer it lasts the worse it's going to get till it evens out.
I think it would start as SHTF and over time lead into WROL then slide after a few years into TEOTWAKI.

I'm not sure we have any examples of TEOTWAWKI outside of TV, but the list of real deal SHTF situations is long. In SHTF, there is often the ability to get news from the functioning world such as during riots or natural disasters. If there is no longer news from outside (because there is no longer an"outside"), you are in something way beyond SHTF.

In my humble opinion, just prepare for a SHTF and you will be prepared, at least in the short term, for TEOTWAWKI.

Otherwise we'd all need to be living on a farm with a blacksmith shop.

IMO and experience, SHTF can be anything from someone losing their job at a very inopportune time to planets colliding. It can be on a personal level only, or on a worldwide level. In short, it can be just about anything.

TEOTWAWKI is more or less literally that - generally worldwide, affecting everybody, probably disastrous. Whether it would take us back to the stone age or not depends on degree, the circumstances and is up for debate.

It seems to me way too many people prepare for TEOTWAWKI and don't prepare for surviving today, tomorrow or retirement. I've been prepping for over 40 years, to one degree or another, and as my remaining time here on earth gets shorter and shorter, I prepare more and more for the more probable short term SHTF situations that are not permanent, while concurrently preparing for what I consider to be not just the most likely TEOTWAWKI event, but the one I know is happening right now; climate change/population explosion/exceeding the carrying capacity of the earth that will eventually cause a large but slow die off of humans.

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