Spent fuel Rod fire could be worse than Chernobyl

I made a post today in a thread about this topic..I decided to provide more info and turn it into a thread of it's own
some of it is taken from that post, with new info added in.

In Japan the spent fuel rods are stored mainly at the plant, with a portion sent to another plant to reprocess..

I am sure there is no need to show the diagrams that have been posted many times before..

Spent fuel is stored within the reactor building in a swimming pool-like concrete structure near the top of the reactor vessel

This spent fuel must be kept underwater to prevent severe releases of radioactivity, among other reasons. A meltdown or even a fire could occur if
there is a loss of coolant from the spent fuel pool. The water in the spent fuel pool and the roof of the reactor building are the main barriers to
release of radioactivity from the spent fuel pool.

At the Fukushima Daiichi nuclear power plant we are missing all sorts of roofs, walls etc..and the plants may or may not be on fire at this point.
hard to tell what is going on now.

One of the reasons given early on for the explosions was hydrogen build up from venting.

Hydrogen is generated in a nuclear reactor if the fuel in the reactor loses its cover of cooling water. The tubes that contain the fuel pellets
are made of a zirconium alloy. Zirconium reacts with steam to produce zirconium oxide and hydrogen gas. Moreover, the reaction is exothermic – that
is, it releases a great deal of heat, and hence creates a positive feedback that aggravates the problem and raises the temperature. The same
phenomenon can occur in a spent fuel pool in case of a loss of cooling water

The Fukushima Daiichi plant has seven pools for spent fuel rods. Six of these are (or were) located at the top of six reactor buildings. One
“common pool” is at ground level in a separate building. Each “reactor top” pool holds 3450 fuel rod assemblies. The common pool holds 6291
fuel rod assemblies. [The common pool has windows on one wall which were almost certainly destroyed by the tsunami.] Each assembly holds sixty-three
fuel rods. This means the Fukushima Daiichi plant may contain over 600,000 spent fuel rods

Japanese commercial nuclear power plants began operation in 1970. Currently there are 53 nuclear power plants in operation. To date close to
20,000 tons of spent nuclear fuel has been generated by Japan's nuclear power program

The quantity of fission products (spent nuclear fuel) produced each year at a full-sized commercial nuclear power plants is massive. A total of
approximately 50,000 times the fission products of the Hiroshima bomb are created by Japanese nuclear power plants each year, and this for the most
part is cumulative, in other words the material remains radioactive. Most of this waste is being temporarily stored at nuclear power plant sites and
must remain segregated from the natural environment

Now this info does not apply to the MOX fuel one of the reactors use...spent Mox fuel may or may not be stored on site, I have been unable to find out
about that.

Mox is a fuel that contains plutonium. There are Threads here on ATS that explain that better than I could..

Now that the news from Japan shows that we may have a spent fuel rod fire...How bad will it be?

Well this type of thing has been studied before,,just not in Japan..we have some U.S. studies we can use.

If a fire were to break out at the
Millstone Reactor Unit 3 spent fuel pond in Connecticut, it would result in a three-fold increase in background exposures. This level triggers the
NRC’s evacuation requirement, and could render about 29,000 square miles of land uninhabitable , according to Thompson. Connecticut covers only
about 5,000 square miles; an accident at Millstone could severely affect Long Island and even New York City

A 1997 report for the NRC by Brookhaven National Laboratory also found that a severe pool fire could render about 188 square miles uninhabitable,
cause as many as 28,000 cancer fatalities, and cost $59 billion in damage. (The Brookhaven study relied on a different standard of uninhabitability
than Thompson.) While estimates vary, “the use of a little imagination,” says Thompson, “shows that a pool fire would be a regional and national
disaster of historic proportions.”

Again this study was done in the U.S and not based on current Japan population levels around the power plants..
It also does not factor in MOX fuel

Another article says

The consequences of severe spent fuel pool accidents at closed U.S. reactors were studied by the Brookhaven National Laboratory in a 1997 report
prepared for the U.S. Nuclear Regulatory Commission. According to the results, the damages resulting from such accidents for U.S. Boiling Water
Reactors could range from $700 million to $546 billion, which would be between roughly $900 million and $700 billion in today’s dollars. The lower
figures would apply if there were just one old spent fuel set present in the pool to a full pool in which the spent fuel has been re-racked to
maximize storage. Other variables would be whether there was any freshly discharged spent fuel in the pool, which would greatly increase the
radioactivity releases. The estimated latent cancer deaths over the years and decades following the accident was estimated at between 1,300 and 31,900
within 50 kilometers (30 miles) of the plant and between 1,900 and 138,000 within a radius of 500 kilometers (300 miles) from the plant.

The range of consequences in Japan would be somewhat different from those outlined in the Brookhaven report, since the consequences depend on
population density within 50 and 500 kilometers of the plant, the re-racking policy, and several other variables. It should also be noted that Daiichi
Unit 1 is about half the power rating of most U.S. reactors, so that the amount of radioactivity in the pool would be about half the typical amount,
all other things being equal. But the Brookhaven study can be taken as a general indicator that the scale of the damage could be vast in the most
severe case.

“That would be like Chernobyl on steroids,” said Arnie Gundersen, a nuclear engineer at Fairewinds Associates and a member of the public
oversight panel for the Vermont Yankee nuclear plant, which is identical to the Fukushima Daiichi unit 1

If that fuel were exposed to air and steam, the zirconium cladding would react exothermically, catching fire at about 1,000 degrees Celsius. A
fuel pond building would probably not survive, and the fire would likely spread to nearby pools. The Nuclear Regulatory Commission (NRC) concedes that
such a fire cannot be extinguished; it could rage for days

On average, spent fuel ponds hold five to 10 times more long-lived radioactivity than a reactor core. Particularly worrisome is the large amount
of cesium 137 in fuel ponds, which contain anywhere from 20 to 50 million curies of this dangerous isotope. With a half-life of 30 years, cesium 137
gives off highly penetrating radiation and is absorbed in the food chain as if it were potassium. According to the NRC, as much as 100 percent of a
pool’s cesium 137 would be released into the environment in a fire.

In comparison, the 1986 Chernobyl accident released about 40 percent of the reactor core's 6 million curies. A 1997 report for the Nuclear
Regulatory Commission (NRC) by Brookhaven National Laboratory also found that a severe pool fire could render about 188 square miles uninhabitable,
cause as many as 28,000 cancer fatalities, and cost $59 billion in damage. A single spent fuel pond holds more cesium-137 than was deposited by all
atmospheric nuclear weapons tests in the Northern Hemisphere combined.

also have a volcano on the south of the island belching ash as high as 6000 feet in the air LA TIMES

Okay maybe we should evacuate people then

One of the above reports said up to 29,000 miles could be uninhabitable..but let's just evacuate 500 miles for sake of the post..

but wait a minute..we have important things in that area that have to be tended to and monitered right?

Isn't nuke plant #2 nearby right? and a plant at Onagwa that is already showing trouble..we can's just up and leave. what else is there ?

Anyone remember the Tokai plant? It is a small reconversion plant with a little fame already

The Tokaimura nuclear accident (東海村JCO臨界事故, Tōkai-mura JCO-rinkai-jiko?, "Tōkai Village JCO Criticality Accident") was at the
time Japan's worst civilian nuclear radiation accident. It took place on 30 September 1999 at a uranium reprocessing facility located in the village
of Tōkai, Naka District, Ibaraki. The accident occurred in a very small fuel preparation plant operated by JCO (formerly Japan Nuclear Fuel
Conversion Co.), a subsidiary of Sumitomo Metal Mining Co

Other safety problems have plagued Rokkasho. Last year, the cooling system of its spent nuclear fuel storage pool temporarily failed. The
ventilation system in the fuel storage building had problems. Last month, the fuel pool, which at that point contained more than 1,000 nuclear fuel
assemblies, leaked coolant from a loose valve; it took workers more than 15 hours to identify and fix the problem

# 0510: Japan's worsening nuclear crisis will now be compared to the Chernobyl disaster, an editorial in Japan's Asahi Shimbun says. It adds that
the unprecedented disaster will test the resilience of Japanese society.

Thanks, well put together.
Who knows how bad this will get, but worse case senario, this will be many, many times worse than Chernobyl.
I hope Im wrong. But the pitcures are speaking a thousand words,( so to speak)
Take care all

"If a fire were to break out at the Millstone Reactor Unit 3 spent fuel pond in Connecticut, it would result in a three-fold increase in background
exposures. This level triggers the NRC’s evacuation requirement, and could render about 29,000 square miles of land uninhabitable , according to
Thompson. Connecticut covers only about 5,000 square miles; an accident at Millstone could severely affect Long Island and even New York City."

That quote if accurate is extraordinarily frightening.

From what I have read this situation is going to get much much worse before it is brought under control

Also The Emperor of Japan has just been on live TV to say that he prays for the safety of as many of his people as possible ( sky news live tv
banner)

edit on 16-3-2011 by tarifa37 because: (no reason given)

Definition of the word apocalypse

# a cosmic cataclysm in which God destroys the ruling powers of evil
# Revelation: the last book of the New Testament; contains visionary descriptions of heaven and of conflicts between good and evil and of the end of
the world; attributed to Saint John the Apostle
wordnetweb.princeton.edu/perl/webwn

Quote by Jomina I noticed that as well. Also wonder about where the Emperor is hiding himself out right about now.
One thing on the apocalypse definition, and this one always bugs me (even if I am non-religious lol)
The real translation of apocalypse is a revealing or revelation (i.e. why that last book in the bible is called Revelations.. It was Apocalypse in
greek)
Just sayin, it's one of my few pet peeves rofl

End Quote

Im not religious either.
I think it has already been revealed. And what it is that has been revealed, is that nuclear power is no good.

But seriously.
Revelations. Just means we are finally going to open our eyes and finally see the lies that Leaders and our Elders have been telling us for hundreds
of years.
Then their power over us will be dead. It will be the death of their power, their apocalypse.
We will rise

In addition to the reactor cores, the storage pool for highly radioactive irradiated nuclear fuel is also at risk. The pool cooling water must be
continuously circulated. Without circulation, the still thermally hot irradiated nuclear fuel in the storage pools will begin to boil off the cooling
water. Within a day or two, the pool’s water could completely boil away. Without cooling water, the irradiated nuclear fuel could spontaneously
combust in an exothermic reaction. Since the storage pools are not located within containment, a catastrophic radioactivity release to the environment
could occur. Up to 100 percent of the volatile radioactive Cesium-137 content of the pools could go up in flames and smoke, to blow downwind over
large distances. Given the large quantity of irradiated nuclear fuel in the pool, the radioactivity release could be worse than the Chernobyl nuclear
reactor catastrophe of 25 years ago.” Kamps is a specialist in nuclear waste at Beyond Nuclear and conducted research last year assessing the state
of nuclear facilities in Japan.

At cernobyl the workers had no idea where they were going to.
They covered the reactor in dirt with their own hands, they all died within weeks.
Now that they know, who is going to do the same ? If they don't the fuel rods will burn for months.
Someone has to do the dirty work and die after that. Who is going to cover contain the reactors I wonder.

Excellent point that seems to evade the mainscream's Orwellian propaganda news. Number 3 reactor has been said that its spent fuel pool is already
on fire and releasing radioactive smoke/steam, plus they suspect the core is breached.

The spent fuel rod pool at reactor 4 is one of seven pools for spent fuel rods at Fukushima Daichii. These pools are designed to store the
intensively radioactive fuel rods that were already used in nuclear reactors. These “used” fuel rods still contain uranium (or in the case of
fuel rods from reactor 3, they contain both uranium and plutonium from the MOX fuel used in that reactor). In addition to the uranium and plutonium,
the rods also contain other radioactive elements. These radioactive elements are created in the rods by the intense radiation around the rods when
they are in the reactor core (before they are moved to the spent fuel pools).

Six of the spent fuel rod pools are (or were) located at the top of six reactor buildings. One “common pool” is at ground level in a separate
building. Each “reactor top” pool holds up to 3450 fuel rod assemblies. The common pool holds up to 6291 fuel rod assemblies. [The common pool
has windows on one wall which were almost certainly destroyed by the tsunami.] Each assembly holds sixty-three fuel rods. This means the
Fukushima Daiichi plant may contain over 600,000 spent fuel rods. The fuel rods once stored atop reactor 3 may no longer be there: one of the
several explosions at the Fukushima reactors may have damaged that pool.

Question: Some people have said that most of the radioactivity won't make it into the jetstream because it would need to reach 30,000ft and would be
dispersed more locally long before it reached that height. Also, even if it were to make it into the jetstream it would be dispersed/diluted as it
traveled the thousands of miles over the vast Pacific. Is this the case? Thanks.

Originally posted by morder1
Wow that Jet stream is nuts!! Should we be worried if we are in that area???

This whole incident is really wild... wonder what will be the end of it

It never ends. Disasters will happen again and again until either they
kill you or you die of natural or unnatural causes. I wouldn't worry about the jet stream. It's unlikely to impact us, but even if it does you can't
spend your life running from the boogieman. The reality is that what's happening today will happen again in the not too distant future. Everything has
momentum. Everything is conserved. Change is slow and painful. So if you're going to be running now you'll be running for the rest of your life. If
you want to live your life, then do it now. If this event turns truly horrible and it turns out that it'll impact us in a big way, then I agree, it's
time to leave. But until then live your life, don't panic.

That may give you some relief. I'm giving no guarantee. This could turn bad. But the reality is that we don't have near the control we think we have
over our lives. So don't get paranoid. It's pointless.

I'm worried about the people in japan and how they're going to cope. They're injecting trillions of yen into the economy to keep it afloat. There're
rolling black outs across the country. Nuclear power I think provides over 30% of their electrical usage. I saw a post elsewhere on here suggesting
that there's 1/10 less usage because of the deep losses from the tsunami. But even then they're still having blackouts because of troubles with moving
things around and because of the nuke plants that're shutdown right now. Several reactors are shutdown and if i'm right they have 53 according to
wiki. They've lost 10's of thousands of people. They have over 127 million people living on a landmass smaller than California. California only has 37
million people. Put that into perspective. What happens in one corner is felt in another. It would be very stressful to be living there right
now.

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