Yourgangee, who cares about the Gaza Strip and West Bank? Why don't you leave us alone?

Unfortunately, it's not only Gaza Strip/West Bank that women are treated this bad. I was reading some time ago a report of OMCT (The World Organisation Against Torture) on violence against women even in Greece, a country presumed democratic and civilized enough to be part of EU. Unequal power relations between men and women lead to the domination of and discrimination against women, which in turn may lead to violence against women. Women frequently experience physical and psychological violence at the hands of State agents as well as within the domestic sphere by their own family members.

Greece has not enacted specific legislation addressing domestic violence, a basic human rights violation. Although women may be able to prosecute their husbands or boyfriends for assault under various laws, these laws do not recognize the particular difficulties faced by women victims of domestic violence, such as familial and societal pressure not to press charges or the immediate need for protection through restraining orders, shelters, and other such mechanisms. Without specific laws concerning violence in home, women will not likely press charges, or if they do choose to press charges initially, they will likely withdraw their complaint due to pressure from the family and surrounding community, as well as inadequacy of police and judicial officers to effectively address the issue of domestic violence.

Yourgangee, who cares about the Gaza Strip and West Bank? Why don't you leave us alone?

Unfortunately, it's not only Gaza Strip/West Bank that women are treated this bad. I was reading some time ago a report of OMCT (The World Organisation Against Torture) on violence against women even in Greece, a country presumed democratic and civilized enough to be part of EU. Unequal power relations between men and women lead to the domination of and discrimination against women, which in turn may lead to violence against women. Women frequently experience physical and psychological violence at the hands of State agents as well as within the domestic sphere by their own family members.

Greece has not enacted specific legislation addressing domestic violence, a basic human rights violation. Although women may be able to prosecute their husbands or boyfriends for assault under various laws, these laws do not recognize the particular difficulties faced by women victims of domestic violence, such as familial and societal pressure not to press charges or the immediate need for protection through restraining orders, shelters, and other such mechanisms. Without specific laws concerning violence in home, women will not likely press charges, or if they do choose to press charges initially, they will likely withdraw their complaint due to pressure from the family and surrounding community, as well as inadequacy of police and judicial officers to effectively address the issue of domestic violence.

[...] Here it is another dramatic scene - the great Irene Papas is the widow looking for her goat. Giorgos Foundas is smoking in the cafe. Alan Bates offers his umbrella to Irene and Anthony Quinn is sitting outside with him. [...]

Honor killings like the ones you're describing are also reported in the West Bank and Gaza Strip. A 16-year-old girl was killed by her own family, for instance, when some years later the girl walked out on her bogus husband that she had been pre-arranged to marry in order to split with a boy she wanted to marry originally. She was stuffed down a well, with her neck been broken. Her parents walked the streets with their heads held high cuz the family honor has been preserved.

Another young woman was lured to her home having been told she was forgiven. Her brother pulled out a knife and killed her. A crowd of some 100 people danced in the street, cheering him as a hero and a real man. Her brother had thought over his decision, but eventually he did it because the community pushed him to. Otherwise he'd be regarded as a small person.

The typical killer is usually the father, husband, or brother of the victim (teenage brothers are chosen as they'll go to jail for a short time). While the victims mostly women, the males involved in the "crimes" should die as well. In general, the accused females are killed first, giving men the opportunity to go away. At the same time, the "marked" men can escape death by paying monies to the family of the female victim -- this evolves to an "honor killing business" between tribes, police and negotiators. There are also some rumors about males having killed other men in murders unrelated to honor issues who then will kill a female of their own family to cover up the initial killing.

One clarification here - Islam has nothing to do with honor killings. This is tribal, medieval mentality that is also seen in tribes in Pakistan and India, and often even in communities that are not Islamic. It is basically part of the ignorance of a tribal community.

Peter's Father-in-Law, what you're saying is true. Another poster, however, had posted the same thing before you did.

qiverori, a very good idea on your part to clarify that - there's a tendency on this board to ascribe this type of mentality to Islamic countries and cultures only. While it is a fact that treating women this bad is characteristic of every society that governs itself not "bureaucratically" but polices "itself." So basically, women property of men, with the latter that can do whatever they want with them (their women).

However, as another poster highlighted, in Western countries, too, many men consider women to be their "property." Thus, even in Western countries there are instances like that, that is, cases when men pay authorities (payoff) so that no charges will be filed against them after they badly assaulted their wives (just an example among many).

However, as another poster highlighted, in Western countries, too, many men consider women to be their "property." Thus, even in Western countries there are instances like that, that is, cases when men pay authorities (payoff) so that no charges will be filed against them after they badly assaulted their wives (just an example among many).

soft, what exactly are you saying here? I mean in Western countries what you're saying does not happen that often! We've certainly heard about "high-society" defendants charged with some white-collar/gambling type of thing getting off thanks to payoffs, but assault charges dropped after men beats their own wives up?

For Schopenhauer and Nietzsche, nothingness is what is left when these illusions are removed. This explains their sharply opposed responses to the human condition as they understand it. Schopenhauer and, according to Nietzsche, Buddhism, prescribe a surrender into nothingness that can only be actualized by extinction of the will. Nietzsche, on the other hand, asserts an affirmation of the illusion by becoming the creator of it. His überman, by accepting the groundlessness of his own 'truths' and yet maintaining them and continually creating them -- wanting to create them over and over again (as opposed to wanting to escape the cycle) -- represents an ideal response to existence. [...]

Great post, tantrum! It has to be pointed out, though, that just like Schoppenhauer/Nietzsche may have not really understand Buddhism and have taken one thing for another, you, too, may be giving a not-quite-right interpretation of what Nietzscheanism is about..

Great post, tantrum! It has to be pointed out, though, that just like Schoppenhauer/Nietzsche may have not really understand Buddhism and have taken one thing for another, you, too, may be giving a not-quite-right interpretation of what Nietzscheanism is about..

I don't think Schoppenhauer/Nietzsche may have not really understood Buddhism, kamma!

Honor killings like the ones you're describing are also reported in the West Bank and Gaza Strip. A 16-year-old girl was killed by her own family, for instance, when some years later the girl walked out on her bogus husband that she had been pre-arranged to marry in order to split with a boy she wanted to marry originally. She was stuffed down a well, with her neck been broken. Her parents walked the streets with their heads held high cuz the family honor has been preserved.

Another young woman was lured to her home having been told she was forgiven. Her brother pulled out a knife and killed her. A crowd of some 100 people danced in the street, cheering him as a hero and a real man. Her brother had thought over his decision, but eventually he did it because the community pushed him to. Otherwise he'd be regarded as a small person.

The typical killer is usually the father, husband, or brother of the victim (teenage brothers are chosen as they'll go to jail for a short time). While the victims mostly women, the males involved in the "crimes" should die as well. In general, the accused females are killed first, giving men the opportunity to go away. At the same time, the "marked" men can escape death by paying monies to the family of the female victim -- this evolves to an "honor killing business" between tribes, police and negotiators. There are also some rumors about males having killed other men in murders unrelated to honor issues who then will kill a female of their own family to cover up the initial killing.

One clarification here - Islam has nothing to do with honor killings. This is tribal, medieval mentality that is also seen in tribes in Pakistan and India, and often even in communities that are not Islamic. It is basically part of the ignorance of a tribal community.

Peter's Father-in-Law, what you're saying is true. Another poster, however, had posted the same thing before you did.

qiverori, a very good idea on your part to clarify that - there's a tendency on this board to ascribe this type of mentality to Islamic countries and cultures only. While it is a fact that treating women this bad is characteristic of every society that governs itself not "bureaucratically" but polices "itself." So basically, women property of men, with the latter that can do whatever they want with them (their women).

Muslim families treat women bad. Muslim men treat women with no respect, beat them, oppress them and sometimes kill them. The typical case of an oppressed Muslim woman is that of one given into marriage when she is but a child. Men are promiscuous and their wives usually know that they have affairs with other women. Children are also beaten by their fathers - they are beaten, their theory being that unless children are beaten they will become spoiled.

Caregiving and raising children is done exclusively by the women and men who share even just a bit on the above are not considered 'real' men. Children in Muslim countries are seen as property of their parents. They are called "amana," they are viewed as "on loan" from God, and parents are entrusted to care for them. Children are expected to be obedient and parents discourage premarital intimacy and unsupervised dating and parties. Children are expected to take care of their elderly parents and those who do not are seen as 'bad' children.

Muslims value highly relationships with extended family and friends, so families try to live close to one another. The elderly and disabled are viewed as blessings and are cared for within the family or close-knit community.