Who’s the real free trader around here?

The political class is screaming bloody murder over Trump’s performance at the G-7 meeting in Canada, where he reportedly spent most of the time detailing how much the US was paying for the defense of our vaunted “allies,” not to mention the high tariffs imposed on American goods. He then proposed a “free trade zone” in which member countries would drop all tariffs, subsidies, and other barriers to trade: the “allies” didn’t like that much, either. Nor did the alleged advocates of free trade here in the US give him any credit for ostensibly coming around to their point of view. Which reminds me of something Murray Rothbard said about this issue: “If authentic free trade ever looms on the policy horizon, there’ll be one sure way to tell. The government/media/big-business complex will oppose it tooth and nail.”

PDT is a specialist in uncovering hypocrisy and there’s plenty of it around.

[My thanks to Max for posting this in the comments on a previous thread.]

PDT is a specialist in uncovering hypocrisy and there’s plenty of it around.

No he is just a political amteur surrounded by incompetent advisors from the republican party that are as inept as Trump is inexperienced and so his proposals ar econstant, random mess of contradictions.

The European citizenry are beginning to rebel against their political class over Immigration. On top of that, ecofascism and the welfare state is driving the EU broke, it’s energy policy is anti business, anti production and a subsidy pyramid scheme reeking of cronyism….. and Trump is telling the European political class and America’s own political class, that they have to change…. and they all hate him for it. Because he is right.

The great thing for me is how this exposes the futility and meaninglessness of G7 meetings in general.

According to the world’s press, Trump tore up the international rule book, broke his promise to sign the communique, flipflopped on everything, and left the Western alliance in disarray.

And this includes so-called “respectable” organs. The Financial Times today says “Trump Snubs at G7 summit leave closest allies in turmoil” and its editorial is “President Trump goes rogue at the G7”.

Well, what a weekend in Canada, eh! Imagine the catastrophic impact on financial markets when they open on Monday. If any of it were true of course. In fact, the S and P just opened the week up a quarter of a per cent, with the dollar steady. It seems some FT readers know a lot better than FT journos what really counts in the world.

No he is just a political amteur surrounded by incompetent advisors from the republican party that are as inept as Trump is inexperienced and so his proposals ar econstant, random mess of contradictions.
Peter, are you meaning the experts that have brought us the free trading EU subsidy fest, or the brilliant negotiators and advisors that have settled the on going middle east disputes, or the statesmen that have ended the Korean war. You seem very satisfied with patent failure and ineptitude…..as the norm.

Let’s see those tarifs folks, as Trump forces Europe to submit to a level playing field.

This is great to watch, bullies being called out and Trump has nothing to lose and owes no one so the usual dealmaking no longer works or applies.

He’s a cleanskin, in a game with thieves.

Indeed, he reminds me of the comedies we love where the local hero card sharp meets the out of town heavy muscle and takes them to the cleaners by hiding his skill as an ingenue. The Phil Silvers Show was one of those, where Sgt Bilko rescued the funds of one of his crew from the clutches of the blow-in card sharps.

Nor did the alleged advocates of free trade here in the US give him any credit for ostensibly coming around to their point of view.

Why on earth would they think that he has come around to their point of view? Trump has made it clear you can’t trust what he says, because he will change it at a whim, or to different audiences. His populist talk about Tariffs over the past 12 months has not been consistent with aiming for complete free trade.

Why on earth would they think that he has come around to their point of view? Trump has made it clear you can’t trust what he says, because he will change it at a whim, or to different audiences. His populist talk about Tariffs over the past 12 months has not been consistent with aiming for complete free trade.

I speculate Trump doesn’t care I e way or the other. He would take true free trade, but isn’t stupid enough to think that current arrangements bear any relationship to free trade. He also sees the EU for what it is, and doesn’t take Canada seriously. Why would anyone?

I’d love to know what it is that Trump has done, or not done, that causes some to spew such vitriol. He’s been accused of just about everything bad under the sun, yet I haven’t seen anything that justifies that vitriol.

“The Germans are bad, very bad,” Trump told EU officials in a closed-door meeting, according to a report in the German newspaper Der Spiegel. “Look at the millions of cars that they sell in the U.S. Terrible. We’re going to stop that.”

President Trump, leader of the free world, G-1, sits in a room surrounded by utterly powerless and exhausted G-6, like weary parents whose child has gone through all 17 stages of an airport meltdown tantrum and has — finally — decided to just sit on the floor.

Arms crossed. Unmovable.

Vintage Donald Trump.

The picture — dispatched to the world by a fed up German diplomat inside the Canadian china shoppe — is marvelous for so many reasons. Not the least of which is that it’s the latest attempt by Mr. Trump’s detractors desperate to embarrass him — only to have it backfire.

The Trump administration’s steel tariffs are intended to staunch the flow of rust from closed American steel mills. The aluminum tariffs are designed to halt the rapid shuttering of American aluminum smelters.

Tens of thousands of steel and aluminum workers have lost their jobs over the past five years as subsidized metal from China glutted the world market, artificially forcing down prices.

The tariffs are not, however, a simple job-preservation measure. President Trump levied them to try to secure sufficient domestic production capacity of these vital metals for defense — for planes and tanks and for critical infrastructure.

I take it that neither the Trumpster, nor Prime Minister Abe are real big fans of sauerkraut – especially when it is served with a side-dish of scrawny frogs legs and under-cooked escargots (and a garnish of a prosthetic eyebrow or two)!

Whilst sauerkraut, frogs legs and escargot may well be served hot, revenge is a dish best served cold…as some may yet learn to their cost.

One should always be mindful never to trod on the toe of an elephant, because if the elephant ever decides to muck your nest in revenge, they can deliver a helluva big load of muck!

“The Germans are bad, very bad,” Trump told EU officials in a closed-door meeting, according to a report in the German newspaper Der Spiegel. “Look at the millions of cars that they sell in the U.S. Terrible. We’re going to stop that.”

Sound like pro-free trade to you? Doesn’t even sound pro-trade!

Good point, stupid.
Go to Europe and see how many american cars are driving down the autobahns.
SFA.
The point exactly.
This is reciprocal, not initiated by the U.S.A. first.

You don’t sound like you believe in the benefits of trade then, let alone free trade? Fair trade is something made up by the left.

It doesn’t matter how many cars the US sells in Germany. Both countries can benefit from Germany selling lots of cars in the US. It’s pretty basic economics.

We should be arguing for both countries to remove the small tariffs they still have on each other’s cars, to maximise that benefit. But that’s not what Trump was arguing for. He was arguing for less trade.

Who says that the disparity between German car sales in America and American car sales in Germany, isn’t evidence of “free trade”?

Given a choice between buying a state-of-the-art Mercedes, Audi or BMW on the one hand, or some barge-like Yank tank that wobbles around like a madwoman’s mammaries and screeches tyres while doing 5 kmh on a dirt road, I’d take the Krautmobile every time.

Trump’s bluster is just that. It’s just his standard opening negotiating ploy, or in Union terms, an “ambit claim”.

I love how a thread showing Trump changing his positions on a whim requires proof that he changes his positions on a whim.
Also I love Trump supporters who are for tariffs when Trump is and then are gloatingly pro-free trade when Trump randomly changes his mind.

Why its almost like you don’t know anything about the subject and in the absence of your own ideas are just going with whatever dear leader says.

We should be arguing for both countries to remove the small tariffs they still have on each other’s cars, to maximise that benefit. But that’s not what Trump was arguing for. He was arguing for less trade.

Don’t be silly now, calm down.
At this very G7 conference, he was the one to suggest the abolition of all tariffs.
No one else did.
Funny about that.
It does hurt your economy if you cannot sell into a country as much as tarriffs hurt importing, and this does not want to be recognised by lefties when it’s the USA pushing for a level playing field.

It doesn’t matter how many cars the US sells in Germany. Both countries can benefit from Germany selling lots of cars in the US. It’s pretty basic economics.

This statement is only correct when it’s a free market.
WHICH IT ISN’T, you fucking dunderheads.
They have tariffs up against the yanks.
FMD.

So if the yanks produce a car cheaper than the Germans, should the Germans be able to access the car (or whatever it is) at the price without interference by government adding cost.
Of course they should.
Is that the case now?
NO.
So this hurts the Germans, but it also hurts the yanks who build or supply the product.
Therefore they make less money to be able to buy other stuff around the world.
EU tariffs hurt Americans selling their goods.
There is a reason that the leaders of Europe are up in arms about the RETALIATORY tariffs Trump is threatening them with.
If it was going to be only a disaster for the States, they would be laughing and saying go ahead.

Your arguments show a complete lack of understanding of the real world.
Are you a libertarian?

No, it isn’t. Plenty of studies have shown the benefits of unilateral tariff reductions.

My point was that the German car comment was made well BEFORE the G7 summit. And he said nothing about free trade. He objected to the trade of german cars, full stop. Not the tariffs on US cars. The import of german cars (which actually are largely domestically made).

Now at the G7 he suggests free trade. That’s why no-one took his suggestion seriously. He can’t keep his own lines consistent.

No, it isn’t. Plenty of studies have shown the benefits of unilateral tariff reductions.

I’ll take your last comment as the apology it is.

The above sentence is irrelevant to the subject at hand, because I agree that zero tariffs are the way to go.

Not one sided tariffs because they don’t only hurt the consumer but also the selling country.
A fact lefties like to forget if the selling country is a socialist, subsidised shithole selling into the states, then the states should put no barriers up, but they should keep theirs!!!!!!!!!

Both countries can benefit from Germany selling lots of cars in the US. It’s pretty basic economics. Only if free of market distortions. The EU is a cesspit of crony capitalism, trade restrictions, bizarre charges, levys and charges, and cretinous regulation and market manipulation. Brussels should be nuked.

Given a choice between buying a state-of-the-art Mercedes, Audi or BMW on the one hand, or some barge-like Yank tank that wobbles around like a madwoman’s mammaries and screeches tyres while doing 5 kmh on a dirt road, I’d take the Krautmobile every time. You’ve been watching far too much Top Gear.

I’ve got a Cadillac STS and a Chev Blazer, and they shit all over their hun, frog and pom competition- as good as a Jap car even. The Caddy held the lap record on the Nürburgring for a 4 door sedan when released, also had the most powerful stereo (Bose) ever fitted to a production car. Had an M3 for a brieg while, one of the worst cars I’ve ever owned, a complete heap of shit. Even the ’70s Triumphs I’ve had weren’t as shoddily built and unreliable. Same for my brothers Porsches and Mercs, ditto the MoW’s A class, an awful car, worse than a modern Peugeot. The quality of eurobombs is a myth.

Given a choice between buying a state-of-the-art Mercedes, Audi or BMW on the one hand, or some barge-like Yank tank that wobbles around like a madwoman’s mammaries and screeches tyres while doing 5 kmh on a dirt road, I’d take the Krautmobile every time.

Let’s go with that.
let’s skew the market because one individual likes over engineered eurocrap with a 2 year life span because of the crap on them from brand new.

The above sentence is irrelevant to the subject at hand, because I agree that zero tariffs are the way to go.

Not one sided tariffs because they don’t only hurt the consumer but also the selling country.
A fact lefties like to forget if the selling country is a socialist, subsidised shithole selling into the states, then the states should put no barriers up, but they should keep theirs!!!!!!!!!

You do realise unilateral tariff reductions and one sided tariffs are the same thing, right?

But back to the topic – do you now acknowledge that Trump has been inconsistent in his supposed support of free trade?

Or put another way – if the EU agreed to remove all automotive tariffs tomorrow, would Trump still be moaning about the number of german cars on New York streets? I’d bet yes…

Do the EU have tarriffs up?
Er, Yes.
What part of this are you finding hard?

The part where that is relevant – that’s what I’m finding hard.

Trump’s sole measure of whether current trade settings are fair appears to be whether the US sells more to Country A than Country A sells to the US. Not the level of tariffs – that only comes up sporadically. He’s anti-trade, if you believe his statements.

Car companies and others, if they want to do business in our country, have to start making things here again. WIN!

Doesn’t sound very pro-trade, does it? Let alone free-trade.

Then there was this interview he gave:

“If you want to build cars in the world, then I wish you all the best. You can build cars for the United States, but for every car that comes to the USA, you will pay 35 percent tax,” Trump said in remarks translated into German.

I’d agree with that. He seems to have a blind spot about trade. He should stop looking at the trade deficit and focus on the capital account surplus – the mirror image of the trade account. When he reads the word “surplus” he will feel better about things. 🙂

The Commerce sec is the worst appointment of his presidency. Wilbur Ross really is an economic illiterate.

Are you really that dumb (that’s a rhetorical question; you’re a Leftist and therefore you are that dumb)? I was referring to the earlier quote of yours about getting rid of all German cars in New York.

And you’re quoting stuff from Jan 2017? Trump has now been POTUS for how many days? Achieved how much? Nice, huh?

I was referring to the earlier quote of yours about getting rid of all German cars in New York.

Well be specific, before you call other people dumb. I provided a lot of quotes. And I’m pro trade, and pro-free trade. That used to make me of the right. Now it seems to make me of the left?

That particular quote was from an article a few weeks back, rather than twitter:

A report in WirtschaftsWoche cites unnamed diplomatic sources who say Trump told French president Emmanuel Macron he would maintain his trade policy “until no Mercedes models rolled on Fifth Avenue in New York.” The trade policy would seemingly affect any German automaker, though, putting sales of Porsche and Volkswagen (and its Audi luxury division) at risk as well as Daimler.

Either way, Trump seems to object to imports of German cars into the US, regardless of whether there are tariffs on US cars in Europe. He’s anti-trade.

This is a comment on Trump’s position on trade. Not his overall achievements. If that’s your only retort, it says something.

Australia, the lucky country, to get lucky again? Trump’s put agricultural subsidies firmly back on the tariff reduction agenda. He has done more awareness raising in a two-minute tweet than Australia’s bureaucrats and politicians managed through decades of diplomacy.

Think of the boon to Australia if agricultural barriers are hugely reduced. For his work on North Korea and Tariff’s, Trump warrants an order of Australia:

“Honorary appointments in the Order of Australia may be made to people who are not Australian citizens where they have given extraordinary service to Australia or humanity at large.”