Yea but comparing Apple to stuff like mid or low end Dells or something like that, then obviously it won't be the same quality. Compare the MBA to say, the X1 Carbon, now tell me how the Carbon isn't better

Yea but comparing Apple to stuff like mid or low end Dells or something like that, then obviously it won't be the same quality. Compare the MBA to say, the X1 Carbon, now tell me how the Carbon isn't better

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Now then if you compare X1 Carbon(£1012 version) and the MBA 13" (£999) you get more or less the same specs. I am not sure if Carbon's build quality is any better than MBA 13's, but I think its sufficient to say that you are not shortchanged by buying Apple's ultrabook compared to the competitors. However people like to whine about how Apple stuff are way overpriced, which doesn't really make sense to me other than the stupid "upgrades" which you can do yourself anyway.

X1 Carbon has carbon fiber, a 14" screen in 13" body and much better build quality IMO (military certified or wtv) and I can get it for about 1000$ flat. The 13" MBA is 1200$ but I can prob find it at 1100$ or so

Apple products now basically do everything they can to limit changing batteries, hard to access RAM etc

X1 Carbon has carbon fiber, a 14" screen in 13" body and much better build quality IMO (military certified or wtv) and I can get it for about 1000$ flat. The 13" MBA is 1200$ but I can prob find it at 1100$ or so

Apple products now basically do everything they can to limit changing batteries, hard to access RAM etc

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Don't see how carbon fibre is any better than aluminium unibody. Different, but not sure how much better. Screen quality the Carbon has a matte screen, so victory goes there. As for battery charging and hard to access ram your usual computer user (50+%) will not have a need to access those, so for most users its a non issue.

As for the price I am not sure why Apple commands a premium over the Carbon in US, its basically the same here.

Since PCs and Macs hit the market, the debate has existed over which is best. Depending upon who you're talking to the PC vs. Mac debate is often even hotter than politics or religion. While you have many who are die hard Microsoft PC users, another group exists that are just as dedicated to Apple's Mac*. A final group exists in the undecided computer category.

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Enjoy your choice, Kan.
And, nice thread, I have enjoyed it, but it is time to move on for me.

Don't see how carbon fibre is any better than aluminium unibody. Different, but not sure how much better. Screen quality the Carbon has a matte screen, so victory goes there. As for battery charging and hard to access ram your usual computer user (50+%) will not have a need to access those, so for most users its a non issue.

As for the price I am not sure why Apple commands a premium over the Carbon in US, its basically the same here.

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thing I hate about the Carbon is that RAM and SSD is not upgreadable, many ultrabooks are going for that now

The battery thing was more for their normal laptops, phones, iPods etc, RAM is for the MBP for example. Yea for most users, but anyone who is not even techy but a little handy, ie: a lot of dads etc DO think about changing RAM. They wouldn't dare do it on a Mac

The carbon fiber def feels better to me, seems sturdier idk. and technically it is much stronger than aluminum

Thanks for those who spent a few minutes reading my OP and my first few posts to realize that my new found loyalty towards Apple is based primarily on their customer service. I'll roughly summarize (note summarize, because everything has already been said, but mostly disregarded since them haters don't have anything as rebuttals) this thread. I may miss some key points, but forgive me if I do.

I've addressed those criticizing the fact that I had to make an appointment and wait if I was late for the iPad to be inspected before replacing multiple times throughout the thread. To those who read it and ignored it, my point has been made. To those who read it and denied it as a legitimate reason, well, I can't change ignorance can I?

I've also addressed the common complaint that Apple demands an industry-high premium for its iPad when many competing products offer "similar" quality screens and better hardware. At the end of the day, iOS is extremely optimized for the hardware it runs on, so the user experience does not come up short to any Android offering despite the X amount of CPU cores and XX amount of GPU cores that said Android tablets have. I'm rather speaking specifically of my dad's new Nexus 7. It boasts a quad core processor and a 12 core GPU, but it's not smoother than my iPad is. Apple's laptops are also the epitome of perfection, with a dead-accurate trackpad and a surprisingly well designed keyboard for the form factor that comparable brands like Asus and Lenovo can only hope to get close to. Well, maybe Lenovo has already gotten there since their ThinkPad keyboards are amazing. There's a reason so many ultrabooks resemble the Macbook Air, but I'll leave that to your own interpretation since I know what I say will be ignored and responded to with a simple, "APPLE SUCKS!!!" remark.

Why do people pay premium for mechanical keyboards and ergonomic gaming mice anyway? Because those devices are such an integral part of computing that they are imperative to a positive user experience. Apple understands that concept and delivered exactly that in their products. Did I debate between the Asus Zenbook Prime and the Apple Macbook Air for weeks? Of course! The Zenbook's 13.3", LED-backlit, 1080P IPS screen made me drool, but what's a good screen going to do when it's being paired with an operating system that fails to properly resize text? And for one reason or another, the trackpad on the Zenbook also leaves much to be desired, with many multi-finger gestures being more a marketing gimmick than anything actually functional. I guess that's one of the benefits of being able to control both hardware and software aspects of a product or products. People who value user experience over a spec sheet will agree with me.

Apple's Geniuses may or may not be actual geniuses like TheMailMan78 , but that is what they're called and that is what I will call them, just as I refer to GeekSquad employees as Geeks, and Staples EasyTech employees as EasyTechs. Many are hellbent over the fact that I refer to the Geniuses as Geniuses, but what else am I to call them? I guess the bitchers are just too engulfed in their hatred of Apple to see through what is standard language norm.

Criticize the company all you want, but there's no refuting the fact that Apple employs thousands of Americans, Americans that actually look like they don't want to slit their own throats and jump off a bridge at work, versus these other brands that many tout to be morally and ethically superior, but find it more appropriate routing their support calls to India. It may or may not be standard practice to put employees through customer service training programs, but at least Apple tries to maintain happy customers. They don't tolerate employees with attitudes, and that was evident in my experiences. Cry about them being a monopoly if it eases your mind, but know that the same people who cry about Apple being a monopoly are also supporting Microsoft and Intel.

At the end of the day, I'm happy with my iPad, I'll be happy with my Macbook Air when I get it in a few days, and if I'm patient enough to wait to pick up my first smartphone, I'll be happy with the iPhone 5. I probably won't wait though since my contract expired 2 days ago, so I'll likely pick up a Samsung Galaxy S3. Either way, I'm a proud fan of Apple.

Whatever happens in this thread will happen. I'm far too tired to debate with people who are adamant on ignoring my posts so they can continue with their hate entourage. This post marks my exit from this thread, one I started with the intention of debate, but unfortunately concluded with pages upon pages of manure.

To those who participated and actually submitted posts with content, I thank you.

Thanks for those who spent a few minutes reading my OP and my first few posts to realize that my new found loyalty towards Apple is based primarily on their customer service. I'll roughly summarize (note summarize, because everything has already been said, but mostly disregarded since them haters don't have anything as rebuttals) this thread. I may miss some key points, but forgive me if I do.

I've addressed those criticizing the fact that I had to make an appointment and wait if I was late for the iPad to be inspected before replacing multiple times throughout the thread. To those who read it and ignored it, my point has been made. To those who read it and denied it as a legitimate reason, well, I can't change ignorance can I?

I've also addressed the common complaint that Apple demands an industry-high premium for its iPad when many competing products offer "similar" quality screens and better hardware. At the end of the day, iOS is extremely optimized for the hardware it runs on, so the user experience does not come up short to any Android offering despite the X amount of CPU cores and XX amount of GPU cores that said Android tablets have. I'm rather speaking specifically of my dad's new Nexus 7. It boasts a quad core processor and a 12 core GPU, but it's not smoother than my iPad is. Apple's laptops are also the epitome of perfection, with a dead-accurate trackpad and a surprisingly well designed keyboard for the form factor that comparable brands like Asus and Lenovo can only hope to get close to. Well, maybe Lenovo has already gotten there since their ThinkPad keyboards are amazing. There's a reason so many ultrabooks resemble the Macbook Air, but I'll leave that to your own interpretation since I know what I say will be ignored and responded to with a simple, "APPLE SUCKS!!!" remark.

Why do people pay premium for mechanical keyboards and ergonomic gaming mice anyway? Because those devices are such an integral part of computing that they are imperative to a positive user experience. Apple understands that concept and delivered exactly that in their products. Did I debate between the Asus Zenbook Prime and the Apple Macbook Air for weeks? Of course! The Zenbook's 13.3", LED-backlit, 1080P IPS screen made me drool, but what's a good screen going to do when it's being paired with an operating system that fails to properly resize text? And for one reason or another, the trackpad on the Zenbook also leaves much to be desired, with many multi-finger gestures being more a marketing gimmick than anything actually functional. I guess that's one of the benefits of being able to control both hardware and software aspects of a product or products. People who value user experience over a spec sheet will agree with me.

Apple's Geniuses may or may not be actual geniuses like TheMailMan78 , but that is what they're called and that is what I will call them, just as I refer to GeekSquad employees as Geeks, and Staples EasyTech employees as EasyTechs. Many are hellbent over the fact that I refer to the Geniuses as Geniuses, but what else am I to call them? I guess the bitchers are just too engulfed in their hatred of Apple to see through what is standard language norm.

Criticize the company all you want, but there's no refuting the fact that Apple employs thousands of Americans, Americans that actually look like they don't want to slit their own throats and jump off a bridge at work, versus these other brands that many tout to be morally and ethically superior, but find it more appropriate routing their support calls to India. It may or may not be standard practice to put employees through customer service training programs, but at least Apple tries to maintain happy customers. They don't tolerate employees with attitudes, and that was evident in my experiences. Cry about them being a monopoly if it eases your mind, but know that the same people who cry about Apple being a monopoly are also supporting Microsoft and Intel.

At the end of the day, I'm happy with my iPad, I'll be happy with my Macbook Air when I get it in a few days, and if I'm patient enough to wait to pick up my first smartphone, I'll be happy with the iPhone 5. I probably won't wait though since my contract expired 2 days ago, so I'll likely pick up a Samsung Galaxy S3. Either way, I'm a proud fan of Apple.

Whatever happens in this thread will happen. I'm far too tired to debate with people who are adamant on ignoring my posts so they can continue with their hate entourage. This post marks my exit from this thread, one I started with the intention of debate, but unfortunately concluded with pages upon pages of manure.

To those who participated and actually submitted posts with content, I thank you.

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I have to agree that there is nothing like the iPad 3rd Gen. As long as the competition doesn't catch up, I can see that as a worthy buy. However, for Apple laptops I have to disagree. You can't compare a company like Dell, who routs all their customer service to India etc etc to Apple, their goals are totally different. If you want to compare the MBA to something, try to compare it to the X1 Carbon. I prefer it's keyboard by far, and the only thing so far that Apple has always had better was the touchpad, you can see that the X1 Carbon has an awesome one now. I suggest to try it in stores just to compare. I find MBP pretty average as laptops and the only thing I see for them apart from the big touchpad is the sleek aluminum unibody look. Everything else you can find better and cheaper elsewhere.

For every other product, I can't deny Apple isn't GOOD, but they are far from being the best IMO. Also, if you care about it, Apple doesn't have the greatest track record ethically. They are starting to become patent bullies and try to manipulate the market with their lawyers.

Another thing Apple does is that they make sure most of their products have an end of life not too far from now, ie: batteries, hard to reach RAM etc They have been really bad with the iPhone for that, including using priority screws, making disassembly needed to replace it and gluing the battery down just so that it makes it harder to get to. I just find that dodgy practicing

I'll probably never own an Apple product. I don't like their business practices, that said I really don't like anyone else's either. If you want all your products to be made by environmentally conscious humanitarians that care about making a good product and for the happiness and well being of others around them, become Amish... if you're not willing to become Amish, then you have to deal with knowing how and where what product X you have was made, and accept it. So, business practice aside, Apple is pretty much out for themselves just like everyone else.

So, if I can accept Apple's business practices, why won't I buy an Apple product? I don't like how overpriced they are, and how locked down they are. In my mind, buying an Apple product means you're paying out the ass for a pretty piece of tech that you can't do as much as competitor offerings that cost less. Some features here and there might be better, but not enough to warrant the price of paying more and the price of not being able to do as much with it.

In short, Kat bought an iPad. Would I buy one? No. Am I going to condemn Kat for buying one? No. It's his iPad, his money, his life. I can see he's probably done his research on the matter based on how heavily he's defended the iPad, and he bought what he felt was best for him.

At the end of the day, Kat's happy with his iPad, and I'm happy with not having an iPad. Kat buying an iPad isn't going to rain on my parade, he's happy about it and I have no reason to get worked up over it. Live and let live...

The problem with Apple is the prices are too damn high, and their devices are very restrictive, just for the style and the brand name you have to pay alot more and do less. and they are still doing it cause people are buying.. (that includes me, I cant deny that)

and people give apple devices special treatment. Its 2nd hand/used price drop rate is way slower than competing/equivalent devices.

although I admire the iPhone's smoothness in the GUI, the apps, the overall hardware/software performance of the device is certainly better than most device out there, also the device touchscreen response rate is almost unnoticable unlike in those android phones,

Still they could added a ton of features already standard in the market like USB ports, Flash, Removable Batteries, and LOWER THE PRICE

I have no experience on the customer support cause so far both my iPad and iPod(bought used) didn't have any problems yet.

But from what happened to you, If that happened to a Samsung Phone, a PC component, or an Xbox 360, three defectives in a row, It sure would take time to replace.

Apple sucks anyways. They give their garbage ios which runs all apps in sandbox environment and then market it as "secure" device. wtf man...sandbox obvious provide security and bounds users with some stupid restrictions ( and where are mass texting, call recording, bluetooth transfer etc features on iphone btw ). They dont like their devices to jbroken even if it is legal now, and on other side, they f***ing steal ideas from jb communities ( wifi sync, notification center and more ).

Sandbox is stupid idea, it provides security at cost of usability.

I own 2 ipads and i4 and frankly, they are just useless toys without jailbreaking.

I've addressed those criticizing the fact that I had to make an appointment and wait if I was late for the iPad to be inspected before replacing multiple times throughout the thread. To those who read it and ignored it, my point has been made. To those who read it and denied it as a legitimate reason, well, I can't change ignorance can I?

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Your repeated response is that you are simply picky when pickiness doesn't matter. You found flaws, showed them to Apple Store's employees and they believed they were flaws and replaced it under warranty. If you took an iPad to them that had no issues whatsoever, they wouldn't have replaced it--no company would (ever had an RMA denied?).

At the end of the day, iOS is extremely optimized for the hardware it runs on, so the user experience does not come up short to any Android offering despite the X amount of CPU cores and XX amount of GPU cores that said Android tablets have.

Click to expand...

Windows Phone 7 runs smoother and faster on less hardware than iPhone 4S because it fully utilizes the GPU. Windows 8 is delivering the same to tablets.

Apple's laptops are also the epitome of perfection, with a dead-accurate trackpad and a surprisingly well designed keyboard for the form factor that comparable brands like Asus and Lenovo can only hope to get close to.

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How is it the "epitome of prefection" when:
a) They can't be dropped from height greater than 36 inches numerous times and still be used as semi-ruggedized computers can.
b) They aren't dust resistant like fully-ruggedized computers are.
c) They can crash/freeze/lock up, no? Not "perfection."

There's a reason so many ultrabooks resemble the Macbook Air, but I'll leave that to your own interpretation since I know what I say will be ignored and responded to with a simple, "APPLE SUCKS!!!" remark.

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Because Intel, whom made the Air possible, opened the door to the entire industry to make ultrabooks. You need ultra-low voltage CPUs in order to make ultrabooks because there's no room for a big battery nor cooling solution in them. Ultrabooks were the natural progression of the laptop form factor.

Criticize the company all you want, but there's no refuting the fact that Apple employs thousands of Americans, Americans that actually look like they don't want to slit their own throats and jump off a bridge at work, versus these other brands that many tout to be morally and ethically superior, but find it more appropriate routing their support calls to India. It may or may not be standard practice to put employees through customer service training programs, but at least Apple tries to maintain happy customers. They don't tolerate employees with attitudes, and that was evident in my experiences. Cry about them being a monopoly if it eases your mind, but know that the same people who cry about Apple being a monopoly are also supporting Microsoft and Intel.

Click to expand...

Most of the money for purchases at Apple goes to China. Microsoft and Intel are smaller companies than Apple.

At the end of the day, I'm happy with my iPad, I'll be happy with my Macbook Air when I get it in a few days, and if I'm patient enough to wait to pick up my first smartphone, I'll be happy with the iPhone 5. I probably won't wait though since my contract expired 2 days ago, so I'll likely pick up a Samsung Galaxy S3. Either way, I'm a proud fan of Apple.

No, you can't mass produce fully ruggedized computers because everything about them has to be perfect in order to meet durability standards. If one component isn't screwed in/snapped in correctly, it might explode when dropped instead of taking 20+ drops.

They can't be "mass marketed" because of their price but many industries do buy them (construction, law enforcement, military, etc.).

I'll probably never own an Apple product. I don't like their business practices

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This is pretty much my view on the subject, though price is also a problem (for my wallet).

On the customer support part, let me put it this way: if the apple has a worm, it doesn't matter how you polish it, treat it, make juice from it: it will still be a bad apple and you'll have to get a new one.

No, you can't mass produce fully ruggedized computers because everything about them has to be perfect in order to meet durability standards. If one component isn't screwed in/snapped in correctly, it might explode when dropped instead of taking 20+ drops.

They can't be "mass marketed" because of their price but many industries do buy them (construction, law enforcement, military, etc.).

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Then why bring it up? Because your definition of "perfect" isnt the same as kants?

No, my point is "perfection" doesn't exist (I demonstrated with ruggedized products which Apple offers none of). There's a lot of devices out there that do things MacBooks can't. The fact Apple has such a limited selection of products means very few people find exactly what they are looking for.