Any Motorola CableCARD with firmware version 06.25 is considered current.
It is our experience that you should be able to tune Copy Protected channels
on every/all tuners regardless of the CableCARD's part number. Version
02.65 is too old. If there is a case where a Motorola CableCARD is
experiencing problems, we need to hear about it, and ask you to collect all
the data described in Margret's post #212...

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Margret: You previously posted that Motorola CableCARDs had to be of a particular HARDWARE version in order to work correctly with all six tuners and encrypted channels on the Verizon network. Is this still the case, or should ALL hardware versions of the Motorola CableCARDs, with firmware version 06.25, be compatible?

Is there any chance that you can give an update on the dialogue that Tivo has had with Cablevision on getting the firmware updated on the SA/Cisco cards?

I am wondering what firmware version is 'guaranteed' to work since, and what Cablevision is "testing", as there is at least one person on this thread with 2801 and another with 3001 who say they have v58 issues still.

I have the issue on both my Elite and Plus (on Brighthouse cable), both have cisco CA's with the most recent firmware (there's a thread in this forum somewhere that has all the firmware versions and dates). I don't subscribe to any premium channels. I've seen the issue on channels like Disney Junior & WE TV and seen on at least 4 other channels... none are "premium" but they are not "basic" network channels either. As described, I can get the channels to come in with a different tuner. I'll send a bug report next time it happens.

Is there any chance that you can give an update on the dialogue that Tivo has had with Cablevision on getting the firmware updated on the SA/Cisco cards?

I am wondering what firmware version is 'guaranteed' to work since, and what Cablevision is "testing", as there is at least one person on this thread with 2801 and another with 3001 who say they have v58 issues still.

Are you saying that firmware 1.5.3.0601 doesn't seem to work well, or just that if it is a PKM908 (8 stream model)?

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I'm curious about this as well. I appreciate the suggestion to call the cable co to request a firmware update, but in reality the chances of getting satisfaction from doing something like this is slim to none. If you even get someone who knows what you're talking about, they'll say that the cards update automatically if there is a newer firmware.

Seems like action would come mostly from corporate -> corporate pushing from TiVo to the cable cos.

Someone here monitors that yahoo group in which a CV engineer participates. Hopefully we'll more updates from that source if Margaret can't address the question directly for whatever reason.

I'm curious about this as well. I appreciate the suggestion to call the cable co to request a firmware update, but in reality the chances of getting satisfaction from doing something like this is slim to none. If you even get someone who knows what you're talking about, they'll say that the cards update automatically if there is a newer firmware.

Seems like action would come mostly from corporate -> corporate pushing from TiVo to the cable cos.

Someone here monitors that yahoo group in which a CV engineer participates. Hopefully we'll more updates from that source if Margaret can't address the question directly for whatever reason.

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Since cable companies are forced to use cards in their boxes, they are hesitant to push out new firmware that could potentially break their own boxes. Especially if everything is working fine with their boxes. If cards aren't working with a 3rd party box, oh well. It's an opportunity to push their own hardware.

According to the Engineer's explanation, we should only see the problem on "High Value" channels that have a CCI byte of something other than 0x00. Am I interpreting that correctly? I don't subscribe to any premium channels. All of my non-local channels are encrypted but have a CCI byte of 0x00 and would be considered "low value" channels. That being said, I can only use 5 tuners for all but the locals. This is with a PKM800 card and the 3001 firmware.

According to the Engineer's explanation, we should only see the problem on "High Value" channels that have a CCI byte of something other than 0x00. Am I interpreting that correctly? I don't subscribe to any premium channels. All of my non-local channels are encrypted but have a CCI byte of 0x00 and would be considered "low value" channels. That being said, I can only use 5 tuners for all but the locals. This is with a PKM800 card and the 3001 firmware.

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Exact same situation here (also running 5 tuners). Twice now I have also had a "Channel Not Available" message when tuning to a channel which quickly propagates to all channels. Then for some reason, after about 30 secs the card seems to reset and all the channels come back.

Since cable companies are forced to use cards in their boxes, they are hesitant to push out new firmware that could potentially break their own boxes. Especially if everything is working fine with their boxes. If cards aren't working with a 3rd party box, oh well. It's an opportunity to push their own hardware.

I'm sorry that some of you are still experiencing this issue. We are continuing to look into it with very high priority.

Below is a detailed explanation of the issue, put together by one of our Senior Engineers.

-----

Here are some details on whats going on under the covers, and how you can help determine whats happening:

Most cable companies use Conditional Access Encryption on virtually all channels. CA encryption is managed by the cable company entirely through messages from the cable companys headend equipment to the CableCARD. Once provisioned in this way, the CableCARD knows which channels it should decrypt and which it should not. You can move the card between two TiVos, and the card will remember this information and will continue to decrypt those channels without further interaction with the headend.

It is our experience that all Cisco and Motorola CableCARDs currently in the field can successfully perform CA decryption on 6 tuners concurrently.

Once the card has decrypted the stream, it decides whether to apply Copy Protection. Most cable companies do NOT apply copy protection to all channels - we call those low-value channels. However, most cable companies do apply copy protection to premium channels such as HBO and Cinemax - these are considered high-value channels. This is where CableCARD pairing comes into play. When a card is paired, the card and host exchange keys to use in protecting the content. If you move the card to another TiVo, the pairing is lost, and high-value content will not be viewable until the card and the TiVo are re-paired by the cable company. If a channel is presented correctly, you can go to the DVR diagnostics screen and view the CCI Byte for that channel. A CCI of 0x00 means the channel is not copy protected, and a CCI of 0x02 or 0x03 indicates the channel is copy protected. If the channel is not presented correctly for any reason, the CCI byte may not be informative.

It is our experience that all recent Motorola CableCARDs perform Copy Protection without issue. However, not all Cisco CableCARDs in the field correctly handle Copy Protection in 6-tuner units. Some firmware levels of Cisco CableCARDs can only handle copy protected channels when tuned on specific tuners. You can determine the firmware level by using your TiVo Remote to go to Account & System Information -> CableCARD Decoder -> CableCARD options -> CableCARD Menu -> CA Diagnostics. You should see a line that starts with something like OS Ver: PKEY1.5.2_F.p.XXXX. If the final number is not 2801 or higher, you will likely have problems using all 6 tuners.

With the older firmware, it can seem like at some times all six tuners are working, and at other times they are not working. If all six tuners are tuned to low-value channels, all six tuners will be presented correctly. If you tune to high-value channels using the tuners which the CableCARD handles correctly, the channel will be presented correctly. However, if you tune to a high-value channel on one of the tuners that are not handled correctly by the CableCARD, then you will experience a black screen.

When faced with a V58 error or a black screen, it is important to determine who manufactured your CableCARD. If Cisco, its important to also know the firmware level. We then need to know which channel you are tuned to, and which tuner is involved. You can go to the DVR Diagnostics screen and find the tuner used to tune the channel in question. If you shuffle your tuners/channels so that same channel lands on another tuner (preferably 0-3), that channel should be visible. Wed like you to try this, and confirm that the channel is viewable using an alternate tuner.

Anytime you experience this problem you should go to Live TV and enter 777-Clear for the failing case and also for the successful case. That information will be logged and returned to TiVo for analysis.

If you determine that your CableCARD has old firmware, we suggest you call your cable company and inform them that your CableCARD has old firmware and is unable to correctly support a six tuner DVR. Hopefully they will be helpful in getting a more updated CableCARD into your possession.

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My NDS card with "VGUARD" firmware is behaving similarly to the failing Cisco cards. Seems to work fine with only 5 tuners enabled.

Re: Post #221/Verizon FIOS is a different issue. Tuning works fine on all
six tuners, but macroblocking has been reported on some channels. During our
investigation, we determined that the problem does not exist on version 017
cards:
514517-002-00 - Older
514517-006-00 - Old
514517-017-00 - Newer
We are not finished investigating, but there is a chance we can workaround
problems with the older cards through a software release. In the mean time,
version 017 cards do work.

Re: Post #222/Thanks for the feedback, CoxInPHX. It is good to know that
your particular combination of hardware and firmware is working fully.

Re: Post #223/monkeydust - please gather all the information described in
post #212. That should be hugely helpful.

Re: Post #226/generaltso - Yours is a heavily tested configuration, and we
have not experienced any issues. On the next failure, please gather the
information described in post #212.

Re: Post #227/andyf - the behavior you describe sounds more like the
CableCARD is crashing and being reset. You may have a faulty CableCARD. On
the next failure, please gather the information described in post #212.
getting the 777-Clear in during the period where all tuners are black would
be quite useful.

Re: Post #230/profet and Post #232/Am_I_Evil - We're hearing more about NDS
cards. Please go through the CableCARD menus and determine what firmware
version you are running.

Re: Post #233/NJChris - Your CableCARD is definitely too old. You need to
be at 1.5.2_2801 or higher.

Attached Files:

Re: Post #233/NJChris - Your CableCARD is definitely too old. You need to
be at 1.5.2_2801 or higher.

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Any chance TiVo can lean on Charter from the manufacturer's side to get them to update their firmware? 2401 is the latest that they are distributing. Though 5 tuners on 1601 seems to be stable now for me for the past 3-4 days. 6 is right out.

Any Motorola CableCARD with firmware version 06.25 is considered current.
It is our experience that you should be able to tune Copy Protected channels
on every/all tuners regardless of the CableCARD's part number. Version
02.65 is too old. If there is a case where a Motorola CableCARD is
experiencing problems, we need to hear about it, and ask you to collect all
the data described in Margret's post #212.

- Regarding Cisco OS firmware 'PKEY1.5.3_F.p.0601'

We first encountered the 'PKEY1.5.3_F.p.0601' firmware and the hardware it
runs on (PKM908) after the Roamio was released. Feedback from users such as
yourself indicate that this CableCARD may not perform well in our 6-tuner
box. We ask that anyone that has any version of PKEY1.5.3 firmware follow
the steps outlined in Margret's post #212 and help us determine exactly what
that card can and cannot do.

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Hi Margret - I have Cisco OS firmware 'PKEY1.5.3_F.p.0601 running on (PKM 803). I will report 777 as you explained the next time I get a black screen.

Same Moto card model and firmware here that is also working fine. But then again I don't subscribe to any Premium (CCI=0x02) channels so not a good testcase for the problem.

Really appreciate the detailed update from Margret on this though!

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I subscribe to all the premium channels and have no problem with 6 tuners now that its paired correctly.
The problem I have now is that when I added the POE filter to the cable my internet went from 30mg to 5mg. When I had Cox whole home dvr they only had a filter on the cable modem, not on the cable from the pole. Going to try it there tomorrow. I have it on cable from pole before it goes into any of the splitters outside so I know its in the right place according to instructions.

Unfortunately both Cox OC and Cox New England are Non-Copy Protected except the Premiums.

What I would like to see stated is that "514517-01x-00" and above work properly, or whatever the part number is.

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I can tune 6 different copy protected channels at the same time so I am pretty sure that if you get your motorola card paired correctly it will work. Took me 3 1/2 hours on the phone with Cox to get it to work. Was only getting 4 tuners to work before that.