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Oddly laconic for someone that would argue with her shadow. Show some passion! Get involved.

Oh, I assure you I am. Involved where it matters, that is, which doesn't include debating with obnoxious tossers on the interwebz.

I recommend you read these 3 sentences and spot the contradiction.

I recommend you do. There is no contradiction.

The only person contradicting himself in this thread is you, Sir. Someone with a passionate hatred for all thing Scottish, who would gladly "cut us adrift" and yet who rails against the only party committed to that goal.

Very strange indeed.

Originally Posted by Ivy

Gosh, the world looks so small from up here on my high horse of menstruation.

I admit that I am not familiar with their policies in detail, and I would agree that there is probably quite a lot that is complete nonsense.

My vote goes to them because it is a matter of principal and of high importance and the only way to get people to deal with these problems is via legislation.

Doing nothing until it is too late would be catastrophic.

The simple answer to your original question (why would I never vote Green) is because I don't agree with you that the environment is the #1 priority. Because I don't think it's a huge problem, I wouldn't vote for a party dedicated mostly to solving it through legislation.

But as a business owner the SNP's policy on corporate taxation will probably favour me.

Hang on, did you say "probably favour me". It's good to note that you are willing to accept being financially worse off - the "price I'm willing to pay" but you will also "probably" be better off. Believing two opposing things at once is a rare talent. Well done! /filed under dissonance

Or maybe you're like the SNP: you'll say anything, providing it sounds okay, but under the slightest bit of scrutiny reveal themselves as paper tigers posing as radicals. After all, what do you call a party that is "pro-independence" but actually proclaims (simultaniously) to be European Federalists? Believing two exclusively different things at once is a rare talent...

The only person contradicting himself in this thread is you, Sir. Someone with a passionate hatred for all thing Scottish, who would gladly "cut us adrift"

I do apologise for the hyperbole regarding champagne bottles smashed on Ardrossan Harbour, Superlager, et al. That was a a rather poor joke. But you couldn't know that.

The last thing I'd like to see is Scotland ruined by well-meaning incompetents that couldn't run a bath, voted in by delusional wishful-thinkers.

...and yet who rails against the only party committed to that goal.

Wrong again, Blue. There are several parties who are pro-independence: the Scottish Green Party (with 2 MSPs), the Scottish Socialist party and the Free Scotland Party. Actually, I've got a soft spot for the latter... mainly because they only got 8 votes.

Very strange indeed.

Indeed. The last YouGov Poll in August put those Scots in favour of independence at 28%. No-one knows exactly how many Scots favour this option as the figures fluctuate wildly, month to month. This lack of consistancy points to one thing: about a third of Scots favour "independence" (without elaboratimg on the various permutations thereof) and the remainder either don't vote or vote SNP as a protest vote.

The reality in the next election is a vote for SNP is a vote for the Tories

Wouldn't it be "very strange, indeed" if the Tories got into power after the die-hard Labour vote in Scotland collapsed in favour of a protest SNP vote? But, at the same time, these same voters would never in a million years vote for independence?

Hang on, did you say "probably favour me". It's good to note that you are willing to accept being financially worse off - the "price I'm willing to pay" but you will also "probably" be better off. Believing two opposing things at once is a rare talent. Well done! /filed under dissonance

I can hold many opposing things in my mind and not experience any kind of dissonance. Benefit of Pness.

Let me flesh it out for you, since you seem to be struggling with some pretty simple concepts and I'm feeling generous.

A cut in the rate of corporation tax would favour businesses - because they get to keep more of the profits. However, as an individual, I'm still subject to income tax, like everyone else. It's conceivable, but by no means certain, that the amount of tax I would pay would increase overall.

But there are many variables which impact business profitability, other than fiscal policy. It's entirely possible that my income will increase, along with my tax bill, or that my income will fall, along with my tax bill. All of which is to say, that your claim that I would have a "significantly higher" tax bill, is bullshit. Further, it would give me great satisfaction to know that however much I am paying, the spending decisions are being made by my people, for my people, and not being used to, oh, I dunno... fund illegal invasions of other sovereign states, or floating duck houses... for example.
I very much doubt that your bill will be "significantly lower" either, but hey, it doesn't hurt to dream.

The last thing I'd like to see is Scotland ruined by well-meaning incompetents that couldn't run a bath, voted in by delusional wishful-thinkers.

So you think it's a real possibility? Interesting. Who is the delusional wishful thinker again?

Wrong again, Blue. There are several parties who are pro-independence: the Scottish Green Party (with 2 MSPs), the Scottish Socialist party and the Free Scotland Party. Actually, I've got a soft spot for the latter... mainly because they only got 8 votes.

There is only one with any chance of making it happen.

Indeed. The last YouGov Poll in August put those Scots in favour of independence at 28%. No-one knows exactly how many Scots favour this option as the figures fluctuate wildly, month to month. This lack of consistancy points to one thing: about a third of Scots favour "independence" (without elaboratimg on the various permutations thereof) and the remainder either don't vote or vote SNP as a protest vote.

It's for the "national conversation" to debate prior to a referendum. If the country votes "No", after the case has been made, sobeit. She just isn't ready for it yet.

The reality in the next election is a vote for SNP is a vote for the Tories

There's tactical voting, then there's strategic voting...

Originally Posted by Ivy

Gosh, the world looks so small from up here on my high horse of menstruation.

I can hold many opposing things in my mind and not experience any kind of dissonance. Benefit of Pness.

Let me flesh it out for you, since you seem to be struggling with some pretty simple concepts and I'm feeling generous.

Thanks for the clarification.

All of which is to say, that your claim that I would have a "significantly higher" tax bill, is bullshit.

All predictions are bullshit. Bullshit, that is, until they happen. Fair dues, though. The future's not mine to see. Que sera sera.

Further, it would give me great satisfaction to know that however much I am paying, the spending decisions are being made by my people, for my people, and not being used to, oh, I dunno... fund illegal invasions of other sovereign states, or floating duck houses... for example.

Quite right. No one does. But then again, when you are a major economic power occassionally you have to make difficult choices. Even small places must make these calls, as the so-called Scottish "Justice" Secretary has just found out. Do you seriously think one of the Lockerbie bombers skipped prison on compassionate grounds? Well done SNP, the moral high ground is yours. Just ask the families of the 190-odd Americans killed.

I very much doubt that your bill will be "significantly lower" either, but hey, it doesn't hurt to dream.

Now the oil's running out you might find any disparity is the least of your worries. And the longer time passes the less there is. What do you plan to export? Mist.

So you think it's a real possibility? Interesting. Who is the delusional wishful thinker again?

Anything's possible, Blue. Back in the 70s & 80s who'd have thought the Slovaks would split from the Czechs? But your right, a real possibility it is. But - as you say - not at the moment. The vote for independence really is rather fickle: one minute over 50% the next down to 28%. What's needed here is good old Lady Luck.

There is only one with any chance of making it happen.

I'd agree. Then again "chance" is a word associated with luck (ol' Lady Luck again). And they'll need more than luck. Take a look at their so-called Defence policy. It's a joke.

It's for the "national conversation" to debate prior to a referendum. If the country votes "No", after the case has been made, sobeit. She just isn't ready for it yet.

Agreed. It good to note that you consider defeat a real possibility. But I'm all for an expensive, exclusively Caledonian referendum. Why not have it on St Andrew's Day? And invite the faeries, just for good measure? /see earlier comments about luck

There's tactical voting, then there's strategic voting...

The new role of the SNP: Kingmakers for the English. Promotion at last.