A frequent criticism of death, black and doom metal music is that it only expresses anger, morbidity, hatred and misanthropy.

Classical music can be all of the above, and yet in turn subtle, gentle, eirenic, reflective, lighthearted and happy.

Is it possible for extreme metal to be these things, and if not, is it a limited art form (it it is an "art form" at all)?

My intent is not to compare the merits of classical music with metal but merely to illustrate the deeper issue. I should note that I don't mean to imply that extreme metal music doesn't have a certain joy to it, and I should stress that by "subtle" I do not mean something that is "clever" or self-referential.

Well, I'm sure you won't find much subtlety in any of those modern tech death idiots, something with constantly triggered blastbeats going on at 300bpm and random chaotic sweeping on top of it is not going to be an exercise in subtlety, but someone listen to Hell Awaits or Realm of Chaos and tell me there are no dynamics or subtlety to it.

I think it is a difficult proposition but I don't see why it should be a point of criticism because comparing the whole of classical music to the extreme sub genres of one rock-based music genre doesn't make sense to me.

It's hard to say. When the definition for your genre includes the word "extreme," which is almost an antonym of subtle, it kind of precludes that possibility in my opinion. You can obviously be less extreme to add a different feeling, for instance acoustic sections or switching vocal styles, but whether to an outsider that difference is actual subtlety is a whole other thing. I feel the song Regret And The Grave by Cattle Decapitation shows amazing subtlety in its variation of styles, and coming from Cattle Decapitation I feel it's definitely a good example of extreme metal, but whether to someone who is not accustomed to extreme metal would agree is, as always, the root of the problem.

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Last edited by DerekBuhr on Wed Feb 25, 2009 2:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.

A song may be written to convey a certain emotion, but ultimately what is received is unique to each individual listener. I can honestly say that listening to extreme metal is for me a very spiritual experience, one that brings me a great deal of peace, and often makes me very happy. When I listen to music that is considered by society to be "happy" and "uplifting" I become either depressed, annoyed, or even angry. In both cases, my emotional response is unique to myself, and may or may not be what the artist hears or wishes to convey.

It's relative really. When I hear The Drapery Falls by Opeth, I hear a well-crafted piece of music that speaks to something inside of me I can't quite put into words. Someone else will hear the same song and think it is a pretentious piece of garbage.

So, that is the perception of the listener. As for whether or not the musical notes themselves can be considered reflective, happy, etc, I think it is an error to even think of it in these terms. No one can say happiness is expressed by certain modes and scales and instrumentation, especially when each person's perception will be different. To do so would send us into the same trap that lead Plato into his ridiculous absolutist theory of the Forms.

In the end we should listen to what we like, for whatever reason we may like it. Music is an abstract art form, and to define one genre of music or another as "uplifting" or "reflective" is a fallacy in and of itself.

I think it is a difficult proposition but I don't see why it should be a point of criticism because comparing the whole of classical music to the extreme sub genres of one rock-based music genre doesn't make sense to me.

Good response... I'd hesitate to say that extreme metal *can't* be x or y or z, ever, but it would be a stretch for gentle, light-hearted music to ever be called 'extreme metal', wouldn't it?