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The thing about one shot builds is that most of the time they are easy to avoid, and barely anyone use them, also they are not a problem to deal with, most player should be able to beat 1hko builds we all know how to dodge spells or counter bs but hey we all make mistakes right?

Tolvo wrote:I never said they did or didn't don't try to put words in my mouth.

All I said was they were allowed.

I think what he meant was that (speaking as someone who is kinda inexperienced with structured PVP) Fight Clubs are for fun and to show off skill and there is no fun (or skill being shown) in a case where it's just, you walk up, get hit once by a guy who just does one cast, dead. It's unfair and ruins the whole "fun" aspect for everyone else and doesn't allow for an accurate judge of skill either.

My issue was the fact that was even allowed at all despite if people decide not to use them. Just because you have not have an issue yet does not mean you will never have an issue. People can and have mixed up win for fun and will do anything to win and these are events not for that but you already know that.

Bontee wrote:I think what he meant was that (speaking as someone who is kinda inexperienced with structured PVP) Fight Clubs are for fun and to show off skill and there is no fun (or skill being shown) in a case where it's just, you walk up, get hit once by a guy who just does one cast, dead. It's unfair and ruins the whole "fun" aspect for everyone else and doesn't allow for an accurate judge of skill either.

In my opinion, at least...

There is no fun or skill being shown when everything threatening is banned.

Yeah we were generally trying to have rules but only a few so it wasn't overboard and people would feel highly restricted.

Though I will say I wasn't happy the one time i was cosplaying on a fat rolling toon with poor armor and a slow weapon and ended up going against a person using a DMB+3 Pike with 1800 health, 30 faith, while Ninja Flipping. It sucks when it is impossible to win.

Fight Clubs should be for fun, not some hardcore win-or-nothing competition. Yes, they can be competitive, but it's not some hardcore tournament where it's all or nothing. It's called a fight "Club". Clubs are groups of people that gather as friends with a common purpose, usually with a designated meeting place, be it a cabin, fort or whatever and a drive to enjoy themselves with others. In this case, it's a tightly knit community of dark souls players meeting to have some duels for fun wherever is decided beforehand. The drive for enjoyment is the reason they are there in the first place. It kinda crushes the integrity of the entire concept of fighting for fun when you just one shot someone, especially on dark souls where (in my experience) you can sit for hours and still never find another red sign or be found yourself. Yes, it may be fun for the one that is running around instakilling everyone, but to everyone else it's just a waste of time.

Why is it allowed in the first place? Doesn't seem right to me...

EDIT: "When everything threatening is banned."

...I didn't say ban anything threatening, or else there would be no PVP at all. Anything can be threatening in the hands of a skilled player. I just said one shot instakills should not be allowed. If that's all that threatens you, my hat's off to you sir.

The good thing with Fight Clubs is if you get one of those guys that's just going for the one hit kills you can simply not summon him again if his playstyle isn't in the spirit of the FC.

I prefer the simple ruleset of No TWoP, Chain BS/BS Fishing, Pursuers, 2 buffs then fight. If you've got more than two buffs you run the risk of getting hit for that extra power you want.Sometimes you also have to say no spell spam (like people just spamming WotG, DB, BF trying to stunlock), but most people realise that they're there to have fun and a good fight, not just to win at any cost, so this isn't usually an issue.

On the rare occasion I do participate in a fight club, I relish the opportunity to make such a build look foolish and the player feel bad for even having paid the money to own this game. On a side note If I fight a mage w/ logan's I'll usually let them go about their business and fight them as I normally would, with a healthy dose of reverse roll stabs. But the second I see the infamous damage stacking , crown, bellowing ring, TCC bastard casting pursuers they're getting insta gibbed before the duel starts w/ a hornet crystal rapier >_> w/e the rules of the fight club are even if the host decides to gank me. I hate damage stackers with a passion.

The drive for enjoyment is the reason they are there in the first place. It kinda crushes the integrity of the entire concept of fighting for fun when you just one shot someone

It's a matter of opinion and a slippery slope when you start talking about this though. How is getting 1-shotted by dark bead materially different from the following:

- Hit stun --> stagger backstab- Riposte with red tearstone ring- Any backstab with RTSR really- Hitstun combos for > 1k damage- Zwei stunlock --> 1500+ health taken away by 4 2h r1s (after all, this is a fight club for FUN amirite? If beads are banned there better NOT be any glitching like toggle escapes!)- Black flame x16- Any buff build where getting hit 3-5 times = death, IE any stagger at all = you died even if you DO toggle glitch

The fact of the matter is that fight club rules are *arbitrary* and literally do not and can not carry any logical justification whatsoever without a core set of criteria based upon the rules design. However, when you set up such criteria to ban pursuers or dark bead, you'll ban a bunch of the above tactics and many more. Maybe that's fun, and if there's a logically consistent rationale behind it, so be it. That said, singling out someone for using dark magic if it isn't an explicit rules violation he agreed to ahead of time is absurd and carries no merit.

You see some of the arbitrary cutoffs in this very thread. They make no sense at all from a logical standpoint. Either all things that can kill in 1-shot or a combo (with no glitches used to escape them) are banned or there isn't a logical justification for banning them.

If you start saying "this guy wasn't supporting the spirit of the FC" and essentially ban play that fits within the rules and is functionally comparable to other allowed tactics, the FC devolves into a finger pointing match where the focus is on restricting play, rather than playing. I've seen that mindset trash madden leagues, and it can easily trash any semblence of a fun, competitive FC also. All of a sudden the "host" of the FC becomes the word of law, and good luck getting him to apply rules consistently (read: he won't, because if he were it would never have come to that).

Nothing crushes integrity like cheapening a legit victory because one doesn't like how it was achieved. Compared to that, using 1-shot builds is nothing. If anybody who doesn't explicitly break a pre-made rule that everyone agreed to before a FC starts stops getting summoned, you have an actual and objective violation of the integrity of the entire FC, unlike 1-shot builds.

Last edited by TheMeInTeam on Tue Aug 06, 2013 2:04 am; edited 1 time in total

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