Shu wo-shu is "source of the teaching"-shu-source
of the teaching which is beyond our words. Esu beshi is "to
have actual understanding of it." So if you listen to the words,
you should understand-e-understand- shu-source of the
teaching. Usually we, you know, stick to words, and it is
difficult, because we stick to words, it is difficult to see the
true meaning of the teaching. So we say, "words or teaching is
finger pointing at the moon." If you stick to the finger pointing
at the moon, you cannot see the moon. So words is just-to
suggest the real meaning of the truth is the words. So we shouldn't
stick to words, but we should know actually what the words
mean.

At his time, you know, at Sekito's time, many people stick to
words-or each one's, each Zen masters [taught] personal
characteristic of Zen. Each masters had, at that time, their own
way of introducing the real teaching to the disciples. And they
stick to some special teachers-some particular way, so Zen
was divided in many schools, and it was very hard to the student
[to know], "Which is the true way?" And actually, to wonder which
is the true way is already, you know, wrong. Each was, you
know- Each teachers is suggesting the true teaching by his
own way, so each teachers, you know, true- Each teachers is
suggesting same truth-same source of the teaching which was
transmitted from Buddha. Without knowing the source of the
teaching, to stick to words was wrong, and actually that was what
the teachers at his [Sekito's] time was doing, or students' way of
studying Zen.

So he [Sekito] said-he says, "If you receive words, you
should understand the source of the teaching." Source of the
teaching is the teaching which is transmitted from Buddha and which
is beyond each one's own way of expressing the teaching or
suggesting the teaching. Do you- Oh.

Student: Roshi, can't see.

Okay. They cannot see. All right.

Words. Words. Koto. [Someone writing on blackboard.] We
go this way. You know, this is Chinese character, and we
read-Japanese people read from here to here
[laughs]-opposite way. This is "words." This is words.
Koto wo uke te wa subekaraku shu wo esu beshi.

And next sentence is, Mizukara kiku wo rissuru koto nakare.
Mizukara kiku wo rissuru koto nakare. "You" is understood. "You
should not": nakare is "not," "should not." Rules:
kiku means "rules." Rissuru is "to establish."
Mizukara: "by yourself." "You should not establish rules for
yourselves." It means that you should not establish, you know, some
rules for yourself, and you should not stick to it or you should
not [be] bound by it. [Laughs.] That is most people-what
most people does. You say, "This is right" and "This is wrong." And
[laughs] you say so-when you say so you establish some rules
for yourself [laughs]. And because you say so [laughs], naturally
you will stick to it and you will be bound by it.

That is, you know, why Zen school-Zen teachers, you know,
divided in many ways: Soto, Rinzai, Obaku, Ummon, Hogen, Igyo, you
know. There are many schools. But originally it is one teaching.
But they establish, you know, or their disciple establish one
school and stick to their "family way" and bound by their family
way. That is how Zen school is divided in many schools. Why Zen
school is divided in many branches is because they stick to words.
When they understand Buddha's teaching, they understand the
Buddha's original teaching in their own way [laughs] and stick to
their understanding. And they think that is Buddha's teaching. In
other words, they stick to, you know, fingers pointing at the moon.
And if three people are pointing at the same moon, you know, three
people have [laughs]-each person has his own fingers and if
this is teaching there are already three schools. But the moon is
one [laughs, laughter]. So he [Sekito] says, "Don't," you know,
"establish his own rules for yourself."

Nakare means "do not." Mizukara is "for yourself"
or "for himself." Kiku is "rules." This is very important in
our practice. We are liable to establish our rules. "This is," you
know, "rule of Tassajara," you may say [laughs]. But rules is the
finger to, you know, to have good practice in Tassajara according
to the situation. So actually rules are important, but you should
not think this is the only, you know, way, this is the true
teaching, or-and that rules, you know, they have is wrong.
You shouldn't understand in that way. In everyday life, it is true,
you know. You shouldn't stick to your own understanding of things.
Something which is good for someone is not always good for someone
else, so you should not, you know, make special rules for everyone.
But even so, rules are important. It is important, but when you
stick to it and when you force the rules to others too much, it is,
you know, to establish rules and to force the rule for others.

So when you, you know, enter monastery, anyway, once you enter
some monastery you shouldn't say, "This is my way" [laughs]. If you
come to Tassajara, you should obey Tassajara's rules. You should
not establish your own rules for yourself. What you should do at
Tassajara through Tassajara rules to see the actual moon is,
you know, how you practice zazen at Tassajara. Rules is not the
point. The actual teaching the rules will catch is the point. So
observing rules naturally you will understand what is the real
teaching.

So this is, you know- From the beginning, this point is maybe
missing in almost all of us. Most of the people, you know, start to
study Zen to know what is Zen. This is already wrong. It is the
first step to, you know, to- It means that he is always trying to
provide some understanding or rules for himself.

The way you study Zen is like-you should be- The way you study
Zen should be the way a fish, you know, pick up its food [laughs],
you know [laughs]. They do not try to catch anything, you know.
They are just swimming around. And [laughs] if something good
come-snap! [Bites teeth together.] [Laughs, laughter.] While
you are following Tassajara rules, you know, even though it is so
hot, anyway you are observing Tassajara rules [laughs], eating in
hot zendo [laughs], like a fish, you know, swimming around, and,
you know, as you are doing so, you will get something. I don't know
whether you realize it or not. Anyway, as long as you are following
rules, you will have something. Even though you don't have anything
or you don't study anything, actually you are studying, like a
fish, you know, like a fish doesn't know what they are eating.
That's all [laughs]. In that way we should study Zen. To understand
does not mean to, you know, to understand something by hear [or
"here," pointing to head?].

For Zen student, if you ask question, you know, "What is good?"
to Zen student, Zen student may answer, "Something you
should-something you do is good, and something you don't is bad."
[Laughs.] That is answer. Something you do is good, and
something you don't is bad. [Laughs.] That's all. You don't
think so much about good or bad.

So Dogen-zenji says, "The power of 'do not' is good." Power of
"do not." That is something intuitive-very inmost function of
ourselves: innate nature. Our innate nature have some function
before you say [said?] "good" or "bad." That function is
something-is sometime good and sometime bad. We understand in that
way. But that innate nature is beyond the idea of good or bad. So
when you start to wonder why we practice zazen in such a hot
weather [laughs, laughter], then, you know, that is the first step
to the confusion [laughs, laughter]. We should be like a fish,
always swimming around in the river. That is Zen student [laughs].
Don't, you know- So Dogen-zenji said, "There is no bird that fly
after knowing what is sky or where is the limit of the sky." They
just fly in the big sky. That is how we practice zazen.

So you should not make some rules for yourself. Or you should
not try to make rules for yourself. These is very strict words, you
know. It looks like very- It looks like it doesn't mean much, but
actually when he say so, he is waiting with big stick [laughs]. If
you say something [Sekito says], "Don't make rules for yourself!
Don't try to understand by your head." He is waiting like this
[laughs] [Suzuki-roshi holds up the pointer or stick as if ready to
strike].[1] So when
he say so, we cannot say anything. Hai. Hai. [Laughs.] [The
Hai/Hai exchange was said as if two people were talking to
each other.] That's all. You shouldn't say even "Hai." You
should do things like a mule or ass [laughs].

You may say, "This is absolute surrender." It is not so. It is,
you know, the way to understand what is the source of the teaching.
When we say, "source of the teaching," we liable to, you know,
wonder what it is. But source of the teaching is not something
which you can understand by words, but something which you
will-which you have when you do things quite naturally and
intuitively without saying "good" or "bad."

Time is always going on and on. We have not much time to say
"good" or "bad" [laughs]. You know, moment after moment we should
follow the flow of the time. You should go with the time
goes. We don't have time to say "this way" or "that way." When we
become tired of, you know, doing something, you may say, "this way"
or "that way" just to kill time. But [laughs] actually when you see
the vegetables in the garden which is almost, you know, dry up in
the hot weather, you have not much time to [laughs] say what will
be the appropriate thing to do for us, you know, for today
[laughs]. While we are discussing we are becoming more and more
hungry. So kitchen people should go to the kitchen and prepare some
food for next meal [laughs]. That is the most important thing.

But it does not mean there is, you know, it is waste of time to
think about. It is good thing to think about, but we should not
stick to words or stick to rules too much. This is very delicate
point. Without ignoring rules, without sticking to the rules, we
should continue our Tassajara practice. This is the way Sekito is
suggesting.

And he says, Sokumoku do wo ese zumba. Sokumoku do wo ese
zumba, ashi wo hakobu mo izukunzo michi wo shiran.Sokumoku:Soku is to, you know-excuse me? [Laughs.]
Soku is, you know, the antenna of the, you know, insects;
moku is "eyes." So it means that to use our eyes and our
five senses. Sokumoku:moku is "eyes"; soku is
"sense organs."

Do wo ese zumba: do is "dao" [someone is writing
on the blackboard]. E means "understand not," you know. "If
you don't understand dao with eyes and sense organs."

Izukunzo: "how." "How could you do that," it means this
words. Izukunzo.

Michi wo: michi is "way"; shiran, "to know."

"If you don't understand dao, way, you don't understand
way, how could you-even though you move or you operate your
foot-operate"-(uma is "operate")-"your foot-your feet-how
could you know the-could you know-shiran-could you
know-michi-way-(michi is 'way')-how could you know
the way?"

So it means that only way is using your five senses-sense
organs-eyes and many sense organs-wherever you go, using your sense
organs like eyes and nose, and at that time simultaneously
understanding the source of the teaching. If you don't do that,
even though you prac- [incomplete word]- ashi wo hakobu-"to
operate your feet" means to practice. So even though you practice,
you cannot know the true way: michi wo. Michi-true
way. Michi wo shiran.

So, you know, the way is-the more important thing is not rules
but to, you know, find out the true mean [partial word] source of
the teaching with your eyes, with your ears, wherever you are, you
know-is how you understand the source of the teaching. That is more
direct way to know the source of the teaching without trying to
establish some particular way for yourselves. So if you stick to
words, and if you do not see true way by your eyes, by your nose,
ears, or tongue-sticking to some rules and, you know, ignoring
actually direct experience of everyday life, even though you
practice zazen, it doesn't work, he [Sekito] says. So without, you
know, saying this way-"Rinzai" or "Soto," or "this way" or "that
way"-to have direct experience of everyday life is more important
thing, and that is how we understand the true source of the
teaching transmitted from Buddha. That is the conclusion of the
Sandokai.

So true way could be, you know, could be a stick. True way- The
original way of Buddha could be a stone. Like Ummon said, "It may
be a toilet paper" [laughs]. What is true way? Or what is Buddha?
Buddha is something which is beyond our understanding. So Buddha
could be everything. It is, you know, just- Instead of "Buddha," we
say, you know, "toilet paper" [laughs]. Anyway, even though you say
"Buddha," it doesn't make much sense [laughs]. So it may be much
better to say "toilet paper" or "three pounds of hemp," as Tozan
said [laughs].

So, you know, the best way is if you, you know, if someone ask
you, "Who is Buddha?" the answer may be, "You are Buddha too"
[laughs]. That will be the answer. If you, you know- Then, if
someone ask, "What is mountain?" "The mountain is also Buddha"
[laughs]. That will be the answer. So in Japanese, mo mata. Mo
mata is "also." If you say, you know- You shouldn't say, "This
is Buddha." Rather- If you say, "This is Buddha," that statement
will lead you [to] some misunderstanding. So, "This is also
Buddha." If you say so, it is okay. It does not mean you don't
stick to lamp. But lamp is Buddha, you know. If someone ask, "Where
is Buddha?" you may say, "Here is Buddha too." If you say "too" it
is okay. It is not so definite. "Too," you know. So somewhere
else-Buddha may be somewhere else too [laughs]. [Tape turned
over.]

[So the secret of the perfect Zen statement is, "It is not
always so." ] [2] ...
[under]standing. This is Tassajara rules, but it is not always so.
This is- As long as you are at Tassajara, you know, this is our
rule. But it is not always so. You should not forget this
point. So this is also Buddha's way-Buddha's rule. If you say so,
there is no danger. There is no-You will not invite any
misunderstanding.

And this is how you get rid of selfish practice. Even though you
think you are practicing Buddha's way, you are liable to be
involved in selfish practice when you say, "This is- The way should
be like this," you know. If you- If that statement is strict enough
to accept this kind of teaching, it is okay. If, you know- Even
though you say, "This is our way-our Tassajara way." You should
definitely say so. But you should be ready to accept some other's
way.

This is rather difficult, you know: to have very strict-having
very strict, strong confidence in your actual practice and flexible
enough to accept other's way too is rather difficult. For you, you
know, to be ready to accept someone's teaching is not strict way.
But unless you are ready to accept other's practice, you cannot be
so strict with your own way. Only when you are, you know, ready to
accept someone's opinion you could say, "Definitely you should do
so." And you may say, "As long as I'm here you should do so"
[laughs]. Even though, you know, you say so, it does not mean- It
means that if someone else come, I will observe his way. Or else
you cannot, you know, you cannot be so strict with yourself. Do you
understand this point?

So usually strictness means to become rigid, to be caught by
your own understanding and no or-do not provide any room for
others. That is usual way, you know. That is not our way.

So my master always said-if someone ask his opinion about
something, about some matter, he always said, "If you asked me,"
you know, "my opinion is this!" [hits the table with stick
at "this"] [laughs, laughter]. When he say so, he is very strong
[laughs]. Why he could be so strong is because he says, "If you ask
me" [hits table with stick] [laughs]. You know, that is our way. So
to be just, you know, yourself is to be-to have-to be ready to
accept other's opinion too. That is very important point. Each
moment you should intuitively know what you should do. But it does
not mean to reject someone else['s] opinion.

In some translation, it says, Koto wo uke te wa . Koto
means "forementioned," you know, "things" or "words." How many
words I don't know, but, you know, but it is not so. This is more
wider meaning: Koto is, maybe, "words." "Words," maybe-not
only words in Sandokai, but also various words we mean, we
use, and it may include various idea which we have or we may have,
or things we see or things we hear. So koto include
everything. And ashi wo hakobu means "practice."
Sokumoku means "our everyday affairs," "our everyday
life."

"In everyday life there is dao, and if you do not
practice our way in everyday activity, there is no way to-no
approach to the true way." That is what he [Sekito] means. Don't
stick to words. Don't, you know, make your own rules and force
the rules to others. It is not possible to force any rules for
others, because each one has his own way, and each one should have
his own way.

That is the conclusion of Sandokai.

Ah. Just right time, maybe [laughs, laughter]. Hmm? I am sorry
we have no time [laughs] for you to ask question.