Hey, all, first time poster… Our son (13 yr old) joined CAP in June. He has a desire for a career in the Air Force (either through the Academy or ROTC in college), and we thought this would be a great introduction/training/learning experience for him. As we have been attending meetings, though, I’m seeing some that raise concerns. I want to make sure he gets all he can out of the program (he’s highly motivated) so I just want to look to clarify a few things with more experienced folks.

My first question has to do with the PT test. That’s the last thing he needs to get his Curry. We’ve been trying to get it done for the last 2 months, but there’s always a reason that it doesn’t happen. Anyway, the Cadet Commander said the other day that he wants them to test in their ABU’s, because if they were on a SAR mission they’d be running them. When I was in the Army, we never tested, or did PT really, in BDU’s. So I looked at the manual for the PT program and it says: “Cadets do not have to exercise in a CAP uniform. Still, commanders should not require cadets to purchase special gear simply to participate in the program.” So can the squadron go outside of what the manual indicates? Or am I mis-reading the manual’s meaning?

I appreciate any information or guidance. There are other questions, but this is the most pressing.

+1 - PT testing should generally be done on a separate meeting night dedicated to PT (or at least scheduled for a portion as such), in PT gear (shorts, t-shirts, gym shoes, etc., appropriate for weather or venue, and while a cadet may assist, a senior member needsto be running the show.

The "SAR Mission" excuse fails since not all cadets are involved with ES (plus it's just a bad idea).

I won't argue with the oversight comment, that kind of heads down the path of other concerns. Also, spot on that it stem from the cadet commander himself. His whole goal for being in CAP is to end up working for FEMA when he is done with school. Everything he does he approaches from a SAR perspective. It's working for him I guess, as he just got named to some FEMA youth program, I don't know of any other cadet that has an interest in it.

Well, that is kind of what worries me. It's a small (in my mind at least) Composite Squadron. Ten SM and 10 cadets on the roster, though only about 5 of each show up each week. Always the same ones. We like the people a lot, but they seem, shall we say, not organized. The holds up on CPFT have been: new Testing Officer not trained to enter in data, guest speakers, cadet commander not in attendance. Just one thing after another.

The meetings also make me wonder. The Aerospace office normally presents something, but he gives it at an adult level. Every one is in one room, but they will do whole segments geared to SM. I guess I was expecting that the SM and cadets would split off and have things tailored directly to their needs. Again, maybe it's just my expectations.

I am a little concerned about it taking over 2 months to do a CPFT. That should be happening every month.

I've never seen anywhere that's the standard. I just looked in 52-16 and it's not in there. CPFTs every month are boring for everyone involved. I try to alternate testing with something else, so they end up testing every other month.

When the new PT program comes in, if I can reduce the frequency of testing even further, I will.

I am a little concerned about it taking over 2 months to do a CPFT. That should be happening every month.

I've never seen anywhere that's the standard. I just looked in 52-16 and it's not in there. CPFTs every month are boring for everyone involved. I try to alternate testing with something else, so they end up testing every other month.

When the new PT program comes in, if I can reduce the frequency of testing even further, I will.

Yes it is boring but a cadet's promotion should not be held up simply because a unit won't give a cadet the test in over 2 months. Personally I haven't seen a unit not give the test at least monthly during a regular meeting or some other time. Making a cadet wait that long to get the final item checked off for their first promotion is a good way to discourage that cadet.

CPFTs every month are "boring"? Time to brush up on the regs and pamphlets. NHQ is trying to increase the amount of PT activities, not reduce them.

If no one needs to test, they still need to practice, or you could do team sports, etc. That once a month, less formal meeting is importantto build unit spirit.

A couple of other things.

A "testing officer" is not required to enter scores, or in any way proctor PT.

Another issue, there is an entire Cadet curriculum that needs to be addressed and is generally run on a 13-week evolving / revolvingschedule. Consistency is important to insure participation. See; "Squadron in a Box" https://www.capmembers.com/cadet_programs/library/squadron-in-a-box/

And as to the Cadet CC being absent forcing changes in schedule, that's not cricket, either. If he can't be there, someone else should take up the slack, not blow off the activity.

Sadly this isn't uncommon - an inexperienced person accepts the CC job, no one mentors him, and things fall off the rails fast.

When the new PT program comes in, if I can reduce the frequency of testing even further, I will.

The only thing that really changes is the requirement to make an objective standard to promote for non Milestones.

Cadets still have to be participating and setting their personal benchmarks. If anything, absent a regular requirement of a number for promotions, monthly PT will become even more important as otherwise the risk is cadets being unable to make Milestone numbers because they are going from zero to 4-clicks at a time standards.

Hey, all, first time poster… Our son (13 yr old) joined CAP in June. He has a desire for a career in the Air Force (either through the Academy or ROTC in college), and we thought this would be a great introduction/training/learning experience for him. As we have been attending meetings, though, I’m seeing some that raise concerns. I want to make sure he gets all he can out of the program (he’s highly motivated) so I just want to look to clarify a few things with more experienced folks.

My first question has to do with the PT test. That’s the last thing he needs to get his Curry. We’ve been trying to get it done for the last 2 months, but there’s always a reason that it doesn’t happen. Anyway, the Cadet Commander said the other day that he wants them to test in their ABU’s, because if they were on a SAR mission they’d be running them. When I was in the Army, we never tested, or did PT really, in BDU’s. So I looked at the manual for the PT program and it says: “Cadets do not have to exercise in a CAP uniform. Still, commanders should not require cadets to purchase special gear simply to participate in the program.” So can the squadron go outside of what the manual indicates? Or am I mis-reading the manual’s meaning?

I appreciate any information or guidance. There are other questions, but this is the most pressing.

I won't duplicate any of the good advice that has already been offered, but I do have a question for you. It sounds like you're a bit more involved with CAP than the average parent. Have you considered joining as a cadet sponsor member or full senior member to help his unit?

Anyway, the Cadet Commander said the other day that he wants them to test in their ABU’s, because if they were on a SAR mission they’d be running them.

I'm not the most experienced member out there, but I have 25 years in the program as a cadet and senior - primarily as an ES and ES training guy. I have never once had to run in a utility uniform during a training or actual mission.

I won't duplicate any of the good advice that has already been offered, but I do have a question for you. It sounds like you're a bit more involved with CAP than the average parent. Have you considered joining as a cadet sponsor member or full senior member to help his unit?

Yeah, we're very involved from a parental standpoint. We are completely committed to trying help my son reach his goal of making the Academy, so whatever it takes we're there. I've considered it, but I'm not sure I'm at a point where I can add anything else to my plate. My son was named to the Wing Cadet Advisory Committee, and one of the things being looked at is the creation of a similar Parent Advisory Group at either squadron or wing level. That would probably be the most likely avenue for me to go.

We do have a good relationship with the Squadron Commander (SM). He's pretty open to suggestions, and knows that we have the unit's best interest at heart (not just our son's). My only holdup is knowing what is "the norm" for CAP, so I spend a fair amount of time looking stuff up. I want to have a clear understanding of "how stuff works" vs. "how I think they should work".

We do have a good relationship with the Squadron Commander (SM). He's pretty open to suggestions, and knows that we have the unit's best interest at heart (not just our son's). My only holdup is knowing what is "the norm" for CAP, so I spend a fair amount of time looking stuff up. I want to have a clear understanding of "how stuff works" vs. "how I think they should work".

This is your best bet - I wouldn't be too worried or excited about CAC, it's generally an exercise in learning parliamentary procedure and having pizza.The fact that your son hasn't even been in 6 months, yet he's already been appointed a CAC rep should be some indication of the status of that group.

Parents should always be involved and interested in what their cadets are doing, and ask all the questions they need to, but the idea of a "Parental Advisory Council" is going to send a chill up the spine of anyone who reads it with experience in the program.

Not, again, with any intent on excluding parents, but there is so much to understanding the program, competing priorities for time, andjust general stress on staff who are all volunteers, that having less-informed people "advising" is just a bad idea. For those who want to be that involved, they should write a check, go to TLC, and roll up their sleeves.

I could very much see how being familiar with the TLC curriculum, as well as CAPR 52-16 and Squadron-in-a-box, could eliminate a lot of "Why can't we just..." conversations, many of which are centered around "going to this cool place I saw once" (while not being interested in chaperoning, driving, or going themselves, etc.

The museum at Wright Patt seems to be a bright, shiny object in this regard, but anything that remotely resembles AE or the military is also fair game, not to mention we should do more "...x...", or Johnny can only come to 4 meetings a year, but he's in a youth program at the park, so can't he just "test out" for promotions from home, and he's super-organized so he should probably be running things. "What's the big deal man?"

We've recently had some of these conversations at my squadron - expedience and lack of time had allowed us to slipa bit in our structure and adherence to policies about testing, reporting in whether you're going to a meeting, etc.

It's interesting how fast "a slip here and a slip there" becomes the norm, which in turn means everything is slippery, and before you know it your meetings are being run at the whim of cadets who don't plan, tell mom, or understand what they are asking, and it's hard to say "no", because "You did it for Johnny!".

So we've dialed back the slips and dialed up the structure - still allows for flexibility when warranted, but less "conversations" when not.

Parents should always be involved and interested in what their cadets are doing, and ask all the questions they need to, but the idea of a "Parental Advisory Council" is going to send a chill up the spine of anyone who reads it with experience in the program.

Not, again, with any intent on excluding parents, but there is so much to understanding the program, competing priorities for time, andjust general stress on staff who are all volunteers, that having less-informed people "advising" is just a bad idea. For those who want to be that involved, they should write a check, go to TLC, and roll up their sleeves.

Just to be clear, the parent council thing isn't my idea, it's already been on the radar apparently. Even if it were ever adopted, I would see it only as a means to supplement and be a resource to the program, not run over it to make sure little Timmy is the star cadet.

I've been a manager for more years than I care to remember, so I'm a big believer in consistency. My interest is in knowing what "should" happen, as much as possible, so everyone gets the most from the program. If "x" is supposed to happen, and other squadrons do "x", but our squadron does "y", then asking for clarification seems in order.

Parents should always be involved and interested in what their cadets are doing, and ask all the questions they need to, but the idea of a "Parental Advisory Council" is going to send a chill up the spine of anyone who reads it with experience in the program.

Not, again, with any intent on excluding parents, but there is so much to understanding the program, competing priorities for time, andjust general stress on staff who are all volunteers, that having less-informed people "advising" is just a bad idea. For those who want to be that involved, they should write a check, go to TLC, and roll up their sleeves.

Just to be clear, the parent council thing isn't my idea, it's already been on the radar apparently. Even if it were ever adopted, I would see it only as a means to supplement and be a resource to the program, not run over it to make sure little Timmy is the star cadet.

I've been a manager for more years than I care to remember, so I'm a big believer in consistency. My interest is in knowing what "should" happen, as much as possible, so everyone gets the most from the program. If "x" is supposed to happen, and other squadrons do "x", but our squadron does "y", then asking for clarification seems in order.

The problem with "should" is that's its an ideal, which sometimes is sacrificed for the ability to actually do the mission. For instance every senior member of the unit "should" have a job, and every member's job should be something they desire to do. This does not always happen. If your squadron is completing the mission, the cadets are safe, promoting motivated and interested; the seniors are contributing and no regulations are being violated go forth and do great things

Parents should always be involved and interested in what their cadets are doing, and ask all the questions they need to, but the idea of a "Parental Advisory Council" is going to send a chill up the spine of anyone who reads it with experience in the program.

Not, again, with any intent on excluding parents, but there is so much to understanding the program, competing priorities for time, andjust general stress on staff who are all volunteers, that having less-informed people "advising" is just a bad idea. For those who want to be that involved, they should write a check, go to TLC, and roll up their sleeves.

Just to be clear, the parent council thing isn't my idea, it's already been on the radar apparently. Even if it were ever adopted, I would see it only as a means to supplement and be a resource to the program, not run over it to make sure little Timmy is the star cadet.

I've been a manager for more years than I care to remember, so I'm a big believer in consistency. My interest is in knowing what "should" happen, as much as possible, so everyone gets the most from the program. If "x" is supposed to happen, and other squadrons do "x", but our squadron does "y", then asking for clarification seems in order.

When it comes to the "outline" of the program, there are quite a few people here who can help.

As a former Deputy Commander for Cadets and now Squadron Commander, I loved parental feedback and questions. But I also expressed my position that I am their contact point, not the Cadet Commander. It eliminates incorrect information, and risks associated with a cadet interacting with adults one on one. I always tell parents that CAP has a robust cadet protection policy, limiting certain interactions between adults and cadets, but at the same time, we have no secrets, and parents are welcome (within reason) to observe our activities and ask any and all questions, at any time.

Hey, all, first time poster… Our son (13 yr old) joined CAP in June. He has a desire for a career in the Air Force (either through the Academy or ROTC in college), and we thought this would be a great introduction/training/learning experience for him. As we have been attending meetings, though, I’m seeing some that raise concerns. I want to make sure he gets all he can out of the program (he’s highly motivated) so I just want to look to clarify a few things with more experienced folks.

My first question has to do with the PT test. That’s the last thing he needs to get his Curry. We’ve been trying to get it done for the last 2 months, but there’s always a reason that it doesn’t happen. Anyway, the Cadet Commander said the other day that he wants them to test in their ABU’s, because if they were on a SAR mission they’d be running them. When I was in the Army, we never tested, or did PT really, in BDU’s. So I looked at the manual for the PT program and it says: “Cadets do not have to exercise in a CAP uniform. Still, commanders should not require cadets to purchase special gear simply to participate in the program.” So can the squadron go outside of what the manual indicates? Or am I mis-reading the manual’s meaning?

I appreciate any information or guidance. There are other questions, but this is the most pressing.

Just wanted to add that ES is NOT part of the Cadet Program, so using SAR as a reason for testing in ABU/BDU's is just wrong.

Hey, all, first time poster… Our son (13 yr old) joined CAP in June. He has a desire for a career in the Air Force (either through the Academy or ROTC in college), and we thought this would be a great introduction/training/learning experience for him. As we have been attending meetings, though, I’m seeing some that raise concerns. I want to make sure he gets all he can out of the program (he’s highly motivated) so I just want to look to clarify a few things with more experienced folks.

My first question has to do with the PT test. That’s the last thing he needs to get his Curry. We’ve been trying to get it done for the last 2 months, but there’s always a reason that it doesn’t happen. Anyway, the Cadet Commander said the other day that he wants them to test in their ABU’s, because if they were on a SAR mission they’d be running them. When I was in the Army, we never tested, or did PT really, in BDU’s. So I looked at the manual for the PT program and it says: “Cadets do not have to exercise in a CAP uniform. Still, commanders should not require cadets to purchase special gear simply to participate in the program.” So can the squadron go outside of what the manual indicates? Or am I mis-reading the manual’s meaning?

I appreciate any information or guidance. There are other questions, but this is the most pressing.

Just wanted to add that ES is NOT part of the Cadet Program, so using SAR as a reason for testing in ABU/BDU's is just wrong.

Sent from my LGLS992 using Tapatalk

Agreed. My squadron takes one meeting per month to do PT and PT testing. These meetings always have a UOD of PT attire (Shorts, T-Shirt, Sneakers). What UOD is mandated on PT night may vary from squadron to squadron, however ES is not a part of the cadet program and should not be a factor in what Cadets wear while doing PT. The only time I have ever done PT in ABUs/BDUs was at an encampment, and the PT was often crammed into our busy schedule after formations, with no time to change into PT attire.

Your son's situation is most likely a Cadet leadership issue. I believe, like the others here, that your son's best course of action is passing his concerns up the chain of command, and if this yields nothing, arranging a discussion the Deputy Commander for Cadets. I wish your son the best of luck in the program! It has been fantastic for me so far.

I won't argue with the oversight comment, that kind of heads down the path of other concerns. Also, spot on that it stem from the cadet commander himself. His whole goal for being in CAP is to end up working for FEMA when he is done with school. Everything he does he approaches from a SAR perspective. It's working for him I guess, as he just got named to some FEMA youth program, I don't know of any other cadet that has an interest in it.

Thanks, all, for the insights.

This cadet is in for an eye-opener when he discovers FEMA is a checkbook, not a SAR organization. This comes from working for FEMA full time for 8 years.