As long as it applies to all welfare recipients, including corporate ones, I've no problem with that aspect.

Any government money going to a corporation that is not directly tied to the cost of the services or materials provided is a subsidy, and therefore
welfare. The exact same rules should apply: before you get welfare you must use all your money and resources first, your financial books must
be opened for inspection, you must prove weekly that you are taking steps to not require assistance, and you can't buy any non-essentials.

If the rules are reciprocal and applied to everyone, then I'm all for it. But if one group, the group in fact who caused the problem in the first
place, wants to lay rules on another without accepting them for themselves, then, no.

the laws now require them to look for work, and to work a set amount of hours!! what it doesn't do is state that the work that they get should be
enough to at least pay for their childcare...thus it often ends up costing the taxpayer more for the single moms to work...
as far as motivation...how about creating a bridge over the flipping gap!! there's a nice gap in the income charts, you make too much, you lose
your healthcare, your child care, ect....but that amount definately isn't high enough to manage to obtain these things without the help!! thus,
there is no incentive for them to find anything but a minumum wage or close to it job!!
thus feeding the business world's thirst for cheap labor!

We are a society that is based on an individuals wants. Not on what we need or what is necessarily good for us. Provide the poor with what they
need(food, clean water, shelter). For their wants they should be entirely on their own. We must provide an incentive. Otherwise the circle will never
be broken.

Not to cut in on this lovely philosophical discussion of legalized genocide or anything; but I feel some clarifications are in order on some points
brought up.

1. People who apply for food stamps are given an amount based on their income. In one case here in MA, a family of 4 with both parents working jobs
could not pay their bills. The max amount allowed to them of food stamps was 26.00 per month.

2. Those who apply for CASH assistance via welfare MUST search for employment. If they do not find employment within a set amount of time, they are
sent to work at a minimum wage job provided by organizations within the community. If you do NOT find work, or refuse to report to a job they send you
to, your benefits are terminated. All of them.

3. CAP babies. Though in the past, people on cash assistance may have had their checks added to with every successive mouth to feed, it is not that
way in many areas now. Here in MA, if you become pregnant after 10 months of being on cash assistance- you are cut off. That baby is not covered with
anything (medical, food stamps, cash), and they terminate your cash benefit. Those children within that 10 month window, are covered by medical and
food stamps only.

Those people collecting their checks in their Escalades...hate to tell ya, but they're not getting that money from welfare.

For those who are NEEDY and need help temporarily, they are usually frustrated with this system, as it doesn't give much anymore.

The welfare systems have changed, drastically. People who apply for welfare should not be dehumanized because of it, because nowadays you cannot be
lazy and exist off welfare. It is a supplement, not an income.

In all this infighting over welfare recipients many are not really looking at the full picture.

We have various groups who are on governmental subsidies .

1 You have the people who are really disabled . These people should receive help . Whine all you want this group is unable the help them selves and
need assistance .

2 People due to economic troubles or other situations are not able to fend for them selves they do need a helping hand till they get back on their
feet .

3 people who make it a life style these do not need our assistance they need to get a job if available .

Social economic and political changes over the last 100 years have shifted the safety net from the farm based , religious based and community based
to the fed . Neighbors and clergy help has been withered to nonexistent and the fed has taken over the job . Most churches now use more of their money
for a bigger churches and send the money over seas to help there.

When we shifted our population bases from rural to cities this created some of this mess . In years past starving out of work people could easily find
work and a free meal and a place to sleep in exchange for picking fruit or working a field . Now many of these are filled with undocumented workers
from countries from around the world but mainly from our neighbors to the south . Couple this with many of our large corporations shipping factories
over seas and closing down our plants . Some on the reasons was pure profit but others were the American worker in a union had priced them selves out
of the market .

Statements like from this guy in SC and many posters are not using all of their cognitive reasoning , This problem is larger than Us just giving
money to the poor . We have created this larger mass of poor people . Is our solution to a problem we created is to let them starve ? When many of
our policies have forced them out of work .

Under the system in place now the only way out is to ensure there is a job for every one and one that pays enough to buy the basics. And the ones who
have made it a life style time period get a job in x time frame .

And for the old and the disabled yes spend my tax money on them and if it truly would go to them and not some of the harebrained half backside pork
barrel project our congress makes I would even donate more money to that cause .

The IRS and the Fed are a PARASITE to the working man. Income taxes weren't even applicable to the general public until I think around 1943 or so.
Since then it has been used as a proxy to devalue our currency and keep the middle class from receiving what they work so hard for. But that's a
whole other thread.

I suggest you read Doc's previous posts. He used to be on the beach for TWO YEARS. He pulled himself up by the boot straps, like any decent human
being (kudos Doc), and he didn't even bother using the welfare system (unlike many who love to live off the fruits of others).

The only person you should be disgusted with is you and the limo-liberals who STEAL from hard working folks like Doc, and give his earnings to people
who...yes I'll say it....DON'T DESERVE IT!!!

Doc and Brainwrek, I tip my hat to you fellows. I can't stay in this thread without fuming.

Welcome to Earth. It's called survival, and if you cannot survive on your own (be it completely by yourself, or by unifying yourself with
civilization), then you can only hope that the cruel world takes you fast and without much pain. Evolution is the name of the game.

I'm not saying we need to let people starve. No one here is saying that. What we're saying is...people help those if they benefit themselves (either
monetarily or emotionally). Society helps those who help themselves.

Originally posted by Arcane Demesne
I suggest you read Doc's previous posts. He used to be on the beach for TWO YEARS. He pulled himself up by the boot straps, like any decent human
being (kudos Doc), and he didn't even bother using the welfare system (unlike many who love to live off the fruits of others).

The only person you should be disgusted with is you and the limo-liberals who STEAL from hard working folks like Doc, and give his earnings to people
who...yes I'll say it....DON'T DESERVE IT!!!

Doc and Brainwrek, I tip my hat to you fellows. I can't stay in this thread without fuming.

While I'll agree on the Fed, like I said though, what would you do with the truly disabled? Allow TPTB get what they want and eliminate all the
'useless eaters'?

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