Kofi and Oloye, we had to go back 13 years?? To the very beginning of his Man U career....where he was ably supported by probably 2 top 5 players???

I don't mean to imply that Wayne is useless....but in the pantheon of strikers, could we really consider Wayne high up there?

I see this phenom in american football all the time....basketball too....some players just light up the stats board, but it never really amounts to much...just stats

Not a good comparison with American Football and Basketball. Those "empty stat" players usually are known for being such because their teams never amount to anything much regardless of their empty stats. No one can say that about Rooney and United. Plus, even such statements require further parsing because you have players in American Football like Calvin Johnson and Barry Sanders who both played for the Lions, Eric Dickerson who played for the Rams and then the Colts, among so many other players that you might consider "empty stat players". Those players despite playing on teams that never came close to winning squad, put up such stats that even Stevie Wonder would be able to see that they were being held back by their crappy teams and they weren't just merely empty stat players. Hence the reason those players, 2 of the 3 i mentioned are already in the Hall of Fame and one will be a future Hall of Famer.

Rooney wasn't good merely because United was a good team. If Rooney stayed at Everton, he would have been the "empty stat" player you refer to. Instead he made the move to United to face greater competition and rise to the challenge which he did.

In the pantheon of strikers in the Premier League and European Football, it would take a hater of the highest order to not consider the all time leading scorer for one of the greatest clubs in English Football and the 2nd all time leading scorer in Premier League history as not being up their in the pantheon of great strikers.

Your last statement was a parse. You use the stats to justify where he should be rated, but that is exactly what I was hitting against. It's why I started this thread. I know what the stats say...but stats never tell the whole story in sports and sometimes, can be misleading. When I compare Wayne to top class opposition, he just doesn't measure up. When did he ever show up like Messi or Ronaldo to get his team over the hump when they were playing comparable opposition? You play Barca and you know who to worry about. Real? That's easy too. You think Man U's continental rivals were losing sleep over Rooney??

Barcelona defender Gerard Pique has highlighted former team-mate Wayne Rooney as the main danger when they face Manchester United in the Champions League final at Wembley on Saturday.“He is one of the best strikers in the world and has scored a lot of goals,” said Pique “It was always difficult playing against him in training as it is with Lionel Messi now,” added Pique.

Bayern Munich president and Germany legend Franz Beckenbauer admits Wayne Rooney poses a major threat to his side's Champions League hopes.He is doing an absolutely fantastic job for Manchester United," said Beckenbauer of the England striker."It is not easy to score 33 goals for your club in England, or anywhere else."He is a brilliant player who is playing better than ever. We at Bayern will fear him when we play United in the Champions League quarter-finals."

Forget Messi or Ronaldo...Lets go down a notch to Suarez, Henry, Eto'o...and their sort. Which one is Rooney better than, or even comparable to?? Over the last 13 years, Rooney probably has a better goal/game ratio than any other major player, save for Messi and Ronaldo. Is that where you'd place him? At number 3???? Is that what your eyes tell you?

This is what I mean by empty calories. The stats say Rooney is one of the best in Europe...maybe even top 5 strikers over the last 10 years. But can you seriously make that claim yourself?? That's essentially what I mean by Empty Calories

Yes I can make that claim that he's been one of the best strikers in Europe over the top 10 years. If not top 5 then definitely top 10. If you have a problem with that claim then I feel you are just reaching.

If you think Wayne is one of the top 10 strikers in europe over the last 10 years, then my reach certainly can't get to you. You are unreachable. Answer me this. Is Prime Rooney better than Prime Eto'o, Prime Henry or Prime Suarez?? Those are only 3 strikers...lets not even go down the list.

Pique on his own was either making a lame attempt at humility or just messing with the universe....Messi, my arse. Rooney and Messi for the same sentence...Pique is a goat for even thinking that.

Yeah your reach can't get to me because i'm not looking for absurd reasoning as to why someone isn't one of the best in his sport despite what the stats say. Sometimes numbers lie but more often than not, you are what the numbers/record says you are.

You know how I know you are reaching for anything? You see Pique's quotes. You read them. Yet you take from that that he is saying Rooney is as good as Messi. When Pique is saying Rooney is as difficult to play against in training as Messi is. Perhaps in a different way. Much like he would probably say Henry, Eto'o, Suarez are difficult to play against in training...like Messi. Without actually saying they are as good as Messi.

Who said Rooney was better than Primer Eto'o, Henry or Suarez?? That wasn't the argument. I never said he was or wasn't. The issue was with you thinking he wasn't a top striker in that period. Sure those are only 3 strikers but actually LET'S DO go down the list. Feel free to list all the strikers better than Rooney between 2004-2014.

1) Top scorer for his country (breaking a record that stood for 45 years).

2) Top scorer for his club (breaking a record that stood for 45 years).

3) Top away goals scorer in EPL history.

4) Won 5 EPLs, 3 League Cups, the Champions League, FA Cup, Europa League, World Club Championship, captained his club, captained his country.

5) Player of the Year.

6) Young Player of the Year.

7) BBC Sports Personality of the Year.

8) Nearly 300 goals for club and country.

Seeing him now as a 31yo veteran, it is easy to forget how utterly terrifying and forceful he was between 16-25. I remember this incredible volley against Newcastle which he scored out of anger because he was arguing with the ref and was annoyed that he was about to be subbed off:

Unfortunately the peak of his career coincided with CR7's presence at Man Utd. When CR7 is around, we know who will get all the attention.

I always remember something that Zlatan said when interviewed in the BBC's "Wayne Rooney: The Man Behind the Goals" documentary. The most telling quote for me in that Rooney documentary was when Zlatan said that when Ronaldo and Rooney played together:

Quote:

"Rooney did all the work but Ronaldo got all the credit because he was scoring goals."

I recall Ferguson playing Rooney as a LM and RM in order to accommodate Ronaldo and his lack of desire to defend. Rooney really used to put in a shift those days: giving Ronaldo lots of assists and doing the water carrying work to give Ronaldo the freedom to do his stuff.