The opening discussion centered about General Wilbur's proposal that
the Western Defense Command prepare its individual exclusion list
of 4,000 to 5,000 excludees on the basis of (1) persons to be
continued in detention, and (2) persons to be individually excluded
from the evacuated area but not necessarily detained. Mr. Wechsler
indicated that, in his judgment, the only possible basis for further
detention of any citizen evacuee after revocation of the general
exclusion orders would lie in the authority conferred upon the War
Department under Executive Order 9066, and that detention of any
citizen evacuee under the authority of that executive order was of very
doubtful legal validity. Mr. Ennis agreed with Mr. Wechsler's
comments, and further pointed out in his opinion it would be
administratively undesirable for the Department of Justice to
administer a center or program where determinations concerning
detention of citizens involved lay in the War Department. He
recommended that the War Department make no recommendations or orders
concerning the detention of specific individuals, and that the War
Department, if it believed that certain citizens were more potentially
dangerous than others, merely so indicate.

Mr. Myer pointed out that the matter of detaining evacuees in centers
after the general exclusion orders had been lifted was a policy
primarily concerning the War Department and the Department of Justice.
He pointed out three possible alternatives for handling a detention
program if detention by order of the War Department was deemed
necessary:

1. Army administration of the detention center, which
would be the simplest in many respects and would vest responsibility in
the agency making the policy decision.

2. Department of Justice administration of the detention center, which
has been the recommendation of the War Relocation Authority.

3. Continued WRA administration for the time being, until further
analysis could be made of the detainee group and the policies that
should apply to them.

Captain Fisher raised the question of State Department concern over the
administration of any civilian detention program by the Army. Mr. Ennis
expressed the belief that there should be no great cause for
concern on this score in view of the Hawaiian precedent and the
fact that any detention involved would be in conjunction with an
overall relaxation of restrictions against Japanese nationals generally.

It was agreed that the policy on detention should be discussed and
determined jointly by the Department of Justice and the War Department.
Mr. Ennis stated that he would discuss the matter with the Attorney
General and take steps to arrange for expediting the policy
determination.

Mr. Ennis further pointed out that it would be difficult for the
Department of Justice to reach any definite conclusion on the position
that it would take without knowing specifically when the Western
Defense Command proposed to detain or exclude and where they were
located. Colonel Ryan stated that the complete list of excludees would
be completed and available by December 10. There was some discussion
about the possibility of making a list available to the Department of
Justice and the War Relocation Authority in installments, beginning as
soon as possible, and Colonel Ryan stated that he would pursue this
question further in the War Department. This would facilitate policy
decisions on the question of detention and on the substantive
provisions of the proclamation lifting the general exclusion. It would
also facilitate the prompt furnishing by WRA to the Western Defense
Command of the addresses of the persons listed for individual exclusion.

II.

It was agreed that the Department of Justice and the War Relocation
Authority would prepare any necessary executive order for the transfer
of the segregation center and other responsibilities to the Department
of Justice, in the event that such transfer is decided upon.

III.

It was agreed that the proclamation lifting the general exclusion
orders should be issued by the Commanding General of the Western
Defense Command. Colonel Ryan believed that a draft of the
proclamation could be completed by December 1, and that it would be
available to the Department of Justice and the Department of the
Interior for discussion and comment. The importance of having a draft
proclamation prepared as soon as possible in view of the matters of
policy still to be ironed out was emphasized.

Captain Fisher stated that a letter was being prepared for the
signature of the Secretary of War to the President formerly
recommending the lifting of the general exclusion orders. The content
of the letter and the advisability of attaching to it a draft of the
proposed Western Defense Command proclamation were discussed.

IV.

General Wilbur's proposal that the Coast not be reopened for entry for
a stated period after the issuance of the WDC proclamation was brought
up. Mr. Myer pointed out that issuance of the proclamation or
announcement in advance of the actual reopening date would be highly
inadvisable because of the opportunity it would give West Coast
pressure groups to work up hysteria, create organized resistance,
and in other ways attempt to force upon the War Department a
modification of its announcement. Mr. Myer also stated that there was no
likelihood of a rush of evacuees back to the Coast upon issuance of
the WDC proclamation, which General Wilbur's proposal was designed to
prevent. A very large majority of the evacuees will wish to take
advantage of transportation and other financial assistance furnished by
WRA, and this assistance will not be provided for the first two or
three weeks, and after that only to persons whose relocation plans are
approved, under a schedule of movements. The contemplated WRA
educational program in the centers and elsewhere, and the fact that the
evacuees themselves are dubious about acceptance on the West Coast,
provide further assurance that there will be no immediate stampede back
to the Coast. Mr. Ennis concurred in this view. Colonel Ryan and
Captain Fisher were unable to make any commitments for the War
Department. It was agreed, however, that the subject should be further
discussed between the War Department, the Department of Justice, and
the Department of the Interior at an early date so that a definite
determination would be made. Mr. Ennis and Mr. Myer stated that they
would bring the matter to the attention of Mr. Biddle and Mr. Fortas,
respectively.

V.

Mr. Myer then made the following recommendation:

A. That a few hours before the issuance of the proclamation lifting the
exclusion orders the Secretary of War confer with the West Coast
Congressional delegation, and inform the Congressmen of the military
decision and the need for cooperative action on the part of the States
and Federal Government in protecting the constitutional rights of the
evacuees.

B. That immediately before issuance of the proclamation, the Commanding
General of the Western Defense Command notify, by long distance
telephone followed by letter, the governors of the four States affected
by the change in policy. This notification should include the substance
of the statement by the Secretary of War to the West Coast
Congressional delegation. At the same time appropriate announcement
should be made to the West Coast press.

C. That a few days after the issuance of the proclamation the Attorney
General issue an announcement stating briefly the legal effect of
revocation of the orders, describing the portion of the
Japanese-American population which would then be free to enter the
coastal zone, and including appropriate reference to the importance
of protecting civil rights and a suggestion of the position the
Federal Government will take in protecting civil rights. (It was also
suggested that copies of this announcement be sent to FBI offices and
to the four State Attorneys General, with a recommendation that it be
distribution among local FBI offices concerned and local State law
enforcement officials.)

D. That a few days after issuance of the proclamation the Secretary of
the Interior issue a statement on the policy that will be followed by
the WRA in facilitating the relocation of the evacuees remaining in
relocation centers and in liquidating the program of the Authority.

E. That the Western Defense Command print posters setting forth the
proclamation lifting the exclusion orders, and an additional paragraph
requesting the cooperation of the public with respect to the military
decision.

The group expressed concurrence in the desirability of the steps
outlined above. Colonel Ryan stated that there might not be sufficient
manpower available to the Western Defense Command to distribute and
post the printed proclamations. Mr. Myer stated that they need not be
posted in such large quantities or over such widespread areas as they
were at the time of evacuation, and that perhaps five hundred or a
thousand, posted mostly in the areas in which hostility to evacuees has
been most evident, would be sufficient. He also offered to make WRA
personnel available if necessary to complete the job of posting.

Captain Fisher agreed to transmit recommendations A, B, and E above for
the consideration of the Secretary of War. Mr. Ennis agreed to transmit
recommendation C to the Attorney General. Mr. Myer pointed out that
considerable thought had been given by WRA to the content of the
statements recommended for issuance by the Secretary of War, the
Western Defense Command, and the Attorney General, and that he would be
glad to cooperate in their preparation.

VI.

It was agreed that the public proclamations of the Western Defense
Command and of the War Department, establishing the relocation
centers as war relocation project areas (Public Proclamation No.
W.D. 1, War Department; Public Proclamation No. 8, Western Defense
Command) should not be revealed or modified upon issuances of the
proclamation lifting the exclusion orders; they should remain in effect
at all centers until replacement of military guards and other details
can be arranged, and for a longer period at centers at which persons
may be detained under any agreed upon detention policy. (Appropriate
modification should be made in the proclamation in the latter event.)

The meeting was called for the purpose of reviewing a proposed Western
Defense Command Proclamation to lift the general exclusion orders,
and a proposed Memorandum for the President from the Secretary of War
informing him of the reasons for revocation of the orders and the
proposed individual exclusion program.

Before the War Department representatives arrived, Mr. Wechsler stated
that there was some question in his mind whether the 4,000 to 5,000
individual excludees referred to by General Wilbur included aliens.
Mr.
Myer stated it was his definite understanding from conversations with
General Wilbur the 4,000 to 5,000 excludees included every one to
whom individual exclusion orders would be issued except the Hawaiian
contingent. It was pointed out that the Department of Justice had
adequate supervisory controls over aliens; and that alien parolees
should be permitted to return to the West Coast under sponsorship
arrangements approved by the Department of Justice, because many of
them were leaders among the Japanese population before evacuation,
temporarily interned on suspicion because they were prominent in
Japanese community life, who could do much to stabilize the situation
on the West Coast during the flow back.

The remainder of the meeting was devoted to an analysis and discussion
of the draft of Western Defense Command Proclamation and the proposed
Memorandum for the President that were prepared in the War Department.

The Proclamation

1. Mr. Myer raised a question about the necessity for the second
Whereas clause (which states that there is a reasonable possibility of
minor hostile acts on the West Coast requiring adequate measures to
prevent aid and comfort to the enemy and to prevent sabotage or
espionage). It was pointed out that some such statement was necessary
to lay the basis for the individual exclusion program outlined later in
the Proclamation. Mr. Ennis suggested that the clause "to prevent aid
and comfort to such enemies" be deleted, in view of the fact that Executive
Order 9066, under which the Proclamation would
be issued,
refers to prevention of sabotage or espionage and does not
refer to
prevention of aid and comfort to the enemy.

2. It was suggested that the word "exclusion" be substituted for the
words "adequate control" in the third Whereas clause, particularly if
it is decided by the War Department and the Department of Justice that
there will be no control over the movements of excludees outside the
excluded areas.

3. There was an extended discussion about paragraph 3 of the
Proclamation, which would retain Public Proclamation No. 8 in
effect
temporarily and regulate departure from centers on the basis of
published schedules. Mr. Myer suggested the deletion of the sentence
providing for the regulation of departures by published schedules. He
pointed out that the controls contemplated by the War Relocation
Authority were on an individual basis. Captain Fisher stated that they
War Department did not contemplate exercising control over the flow of
movement out of relocation centers, and that the sentence in question
was not designed to that end. Deletion of sentence was recommended.

Mr. Wechsler stated that he was opposed to leaving Public Proclamation
No. 8 in effect, as to non-excludees, after the lifting of the ban. He
stated that the control over the movements in and out of centers
contemplated by that Proclamation would be invalid. Captain Fisher
indicated that the Army's chief reason for leaving Public Proclamation
No. 8 in effect was to insure a basis for controlling the flow out
of the centers back to the Coast. Mr. Myer, on the other hand,
stated that WRA wanted Public Proclamation No. 8 to remain in effect
for a temporary period in order to provide a basis for keeping the
military guards at the centers until they could be replaced by civilian
guards, and to provide assurances to both the appointed
personnel and evacuees in the centers during the initial period
following announcement of reopening of the West Coast.

There was then some discussion, in which Mr. Fahy participated, about
the need for any actual restrictions over movement out of relocation
centers. The following factors indicating that no such restrictions
were necessary were brought out by Mr. Myer, Mr. Wechsler, Mr. Fahy,
and Mr. Ennis:

(1) Movement of aliens could, if necessary, be regulated through the
enemy alien travel controls of the Department of Justice;

(2) Most of the single persons remaining in relocation centers are
members of families including aliens;

(3) The bulk of the young aggressive persons who might return
to the West Coast immediately have already relocated;

(4) WRA does not contemplate giving financial assistance or assistance
in transporting property to any persons desiring to return to the West
Coast, whether now residing in centers or elsewhere, unless their
return is approved by WRA and such approval will be given sparingly
during the initial period;

(5) There is a great psychological deterrent to immediate return in
the fact that evacuees are by no means certain of the reception they
will receive on return;

(6) The record of the evacuees amply indicates that they will cooperate
in maintaining an orderly flow back.

All these factors point, it was argued, to a very slow rate of return
in the initial period.

There was further discussion concerning Mr. Wechsler's proposal that
Public Proclamation No. 8 be revised effective on the date that the
West Coast is reopened, to apply only to individual excludees living in
the centers. It was agreed that the removal of all restrictions on
movement out of centers by non-excludees would have the effect of
mooting the Endo case. It was pointed out, however, that
revision in Public Proclamation No. 8 would not necessarily remove all
restrictions on the movement of non-excludees in and out of centers,
since WRA's leave regulations, promulgated under Executive Order
9102,
also prohibited movement in and out except in compliance with those
regulations. Mr. Myer stated that he was unable to say, without
checking with Mr. Fortas, whether the leave regulations would be
revoked at the time the West Coast ban is lifted.

In view of the fact that the continuance of Public Proclamation No. 8
in effect is related to the general problem of detaining excludees, a
problem not yet resolved between the War Department and the Justice
Department -- there was no further discussion on this point. Mr. Myer
suggested that the next meeting of the group be held at 2:30 P.M.
November 22, and that in the meantime the War Department and the
Department of Justice come to a decision on the matter of detaining
excludees at Tule Lake and elsewhere. This suggestion was concurred in
by the group.

4. With respect to paragraph 6 of the Proclamation, Mr. Myer asked
whether any redefinition of the boundaries of the excluded area was
contemplated. Colonel Ryan stated that a separate proclamation,
to be issued on the same date as the Proclamation under discussion, would
redefine the boundaries of the excluded area to include only the area
west of the Cascades and the Sierras. Mr. Myer pointed out that
both the Tule Lake and Manzanar centers would be outside the excluded
area as redefined, and that Central Valley and other productive
agricultural areas would still lie within the excluded area. Colonel
Ryan stated that the excluded area still included the agricultural
areas mentioned because of railroad lines and other defense
installations in them.

5. Paragraph 7 of the proposed Proclamation contemplates the issuance
of one exclusion order listing all the persons to be individually
excluded from the West Coast. Mr. Myer raised objection to the
publication of the exclusion order in view of the fact that the publicity
given to the names of these 4,000 or 5,000 persons would inevitably
create future difficulties and work to the detriment of the excludees
for a long time to come, despite any subsequent action taken with
respect to them by the Army. He suggested that the list of excludees be
sent to WRA; that WRA obtain the addresses from its locator file, and
that individual notices then be sent. He assured the War Department
representatives that WRA could furnish these addresses within three
days if given certain identifying data. Colonel Ryan pointed out the
undesirability of requiring General Bonesteel to sign 4,000 or 5,000
individual exclusion orders. Mr. Myer then suggested that the General
sign the one order, that the order not be published, and that the list
of persons in the order be referred to WRA, which would notify all
excludees in WRA centers and transmit all addresses in its files on
other excludees to WDC. Colonel Ryan also pointed out that publication
of the comprehensive exclusion order was designed to meet the need for
proof of notice. A question then arose about the need for publication
in the Federal Register in this regard, and Mr. Ennis agreed to check
the applicable statutes.

6. With respect to paragraph 8 of the Proclamation, it was agreed that
the words "as American citizens" in the clause "their full rights as
American citizens to enter and remain in the military areas of the
Western Defense Command" should be deleted, since aliens are also
involved. Mr. Wechsler then suggested that the procedure under which an
individual excludee can appeal for a hearing and revocation of the
order as it affects him be referred to in the Proclamation, and not
merely in the exclusion order, so that the public at large will know
that the procedure exists. Mr. Myer agreed that this was desirable.

The Memorandum for the President

The following tentative changes in the Memorandum were agreed upon:

Page 1. Revise the sentence concerning the non-assimilation of the
evacuees to indicate their assimilation was retarded rather than
prevented.

In the next sentence state that "there was reason to believe"
instead of "it was known" that there was a disloyal group.

Page 2. Revise the first full sentence to indicate a division of the
Japanese population into two groups of (1) those who the military
authorities have determined are not dangerous, and (2) those who may
be loyal to Japan.

Insert the number of Japanese-Americans (13,000) who are now in
the armed forces.

Page 3. Revise the references to the important war plants located
on the West Coast and the prevention of sabotage.

Remove the implication in the first sentence of the last paragraph that
there will be control over return to the West Coast.

Page 4. Revise the next to the last sentence of the first paragraph to
remove the implication that there are two categories of excludees --
"those who show strong pro-Japanese tendencies" and "those against whom
positive information is available".

Page 5. Delete the word "serious" in the first sentence of the first
full paragraph.

It was agreed that the substance of the paragraph beginning at the
bottom of page 4, relating to detention of "militant group" of
evacuees at Tule Lake, might need to be revised after the
Department of Justice and the War Department have agreed upon the
policy that should be followed with respect to detaining excludees.

It was agreed upon that it would be advisable to submit the memorandum
to the President a few days before the issuance of the Proclamation.