Incel rage: Man who threw child off balcony at Mall of America driven by anger at women, police say

Last Friday, a man walked up to a mother and her five-year-old boy who were standing outside the Rain Forest Cafe on the third floor of Minnesota’s Mall of America. Without saying a word, he grabbed the boy and threw him over the balcony.

Luckily, the boy survived the fall, and is being treated for multiple severe injuries at a local hospital. His assailant, a 24-year-old man named Emmanuel Deshawn Aranda, was captured as he tried to flee the mall, and has confessed to the crime, according to police. He’s been charged with attempted murder.

As unsettling as all this is, what makes it even more unsettling is the apparent motive for the attack. According to the Hennepin County Attorney Mike Freeman, Aranda was driven by rage over being rejected by women.

Aranda told police he had come to the mall on Thursday intending to kill an adult, but that it did not “work out,” according to the complaint. He returned Friday and chose the boy instead. He told police he knew what he was planning to do was wrong. Aranda said he had been coming to the mall for years, tried to speak to women there and they rejected him. That made him lash out and act aggressively.

According to the complaint itself, Aranda had been previously banned from the mall “for throwing water in a woman’s face and destroying property. He has a warrant for his arrest from Illinois for assault. …”

It’s not clear if Aranda had any connection to the incel “movement,” such as it is, or if he was inspired by previous incel acts of violence like Elliot Rodger’s 2014 killing spree or the van attack in Toronto a year ago. But he was clearly motivated by the “aggrieved entitlement” that is rampant among men in America and throughout the world today.

On the Braincels subreddit, the site’s main forum for incels, the regulars seem most concerned that they will get “slammed” for the brutal attempted murder. While no one in the desultory discussion of the case there is glorifying Aranda the way that incels have glorified Elliot Rodger, one commenter is offering him a certain degree of sympathy.

“I think not getting pussy does something to the brain,” writes BBCislaw, “it’s a legitimate issue that will be ignored in favor of mocking the afflicted.”

I do not usually rejoice in prisoner-on-prisoner violence, but in this case I at least take solace in the fact that:

A) this piece of shit is likely to be denied bail; and

B) prisoners generally take a very dim view of men who harm children.

best of luck in lockup fella

Violence whole being locked up is not part of the punishment, being locked up is the punishment. Violence on top of that is just abuse, and it often (from my admittedly limited understanding) goes into sexual abuse.

When people talk about this, especially about crimes dealing with children, ‘violence’ is usually code for ‘don’t drop the soap’.

I don’t think you meant it like that, but that is often how it is used, so…

Not always. They also kill a lot of people. Child rapists or abusers often don’t live very long in prison when their crimes get out because the other incarcerated men kill them. It’s not always sexual abuse even though that’s normally where the joke goes ,which is disgusting. A lot of incarcerate men in there are fathers and they aren’t there for being abusers. A lot are there for like drug chargers or things like that.

When my uncle was in prison he told me about how if a guy was a child abusers or child rapist but he was rich there would be a lot that would go into protecting his identity because a gang of other prisoners would kill him if they found out he hurt a child.

I understand completely why you are uncomfortable. I would rather being locked up be the punishment and I hate jokes about and kind of sexual abuse as well.

I agree that, regardless of their crimes, inmates shouldn’t be humiliated, beaten up or killed by other for the exact same reason that outside of a prison, self-proclaimed vigilante shouldn’t humiliate, beat up, or kill criminals.

Outside of moral considerations, I would also add that we want the sentence to not decrease too much the odds that the inmate can be rehabilitated afterwards. Prison by conception will often make people go even worse, but adding abuse on top of loneliness and unsocialization make it even worse.

(and, yes, I hope that that guys will one day realize the horror of what he did and become an acceptable lad. I won’t hold my breath for that tho)

From a link from the comments a couple posts back on this site, I finally found a good discussion of positive masculinity. As someone who has wasted far too much time both on the manosphere and anti-manosphere sites like this, it shouldn’t have taken so long. But I think I understand why, and it’s a story as old as time.

When confronted with a dangerous situation, there are three basic choices: engage carefully (read: fearfully), engage recklessly, or disengage (from a situation one could handle). It’s pretty clear that the first choice, bravery, is positive masculinity, while the other two choices are toxic masculinity. I cannot speak for all men, but the times I have disengaged from situations I could have handled, I felt shame, a deep, abiding shame that I cannot believe is mostly cultural.

Please do not straw man this argument. I’m not just talking fights. A firefighter entering a burning building….project finance negotiations with high stakes…..the birth of one’s first child….a hard math test. All of these things are dangerous situations which one can face correctly or shrink from.

So, the reason we don’t hear about positive masculinity is because it is built into the fabric of our society, and that’s a good thing. You want cops & firefighters, right? You want brave men striving to build the world. You want men to be ashamed of failure.

The insight from the link, the results of which I bought immediately and completely as they line up so well with my life experiences, is that men who find success are by far the least toxic in their masculinity. But we don’t spend much time on the manosphere, or on normal message boards like Yahoo!, bitching about life. We’re too busy rocking it.

One problem is that we all won’t find success. I have read a lot of really healthy advice in the manosphere: become the prize, become exceptional at one or two things, do you even lift, bro? If you have a good enough aura and a v-taper to boot, you’ll never make an unwelcome approach again (eye contact + smile = hi, nice day today, isn’t it?) What to do with the losers who will never get there? I don’t know. Porn & video games, I guess.

Incel ideology is really often just learned helplessness. I have seen this over and over again. “Dude, are you doing X, Y & Z?” “No, none of it works, wah wah wah.” OK, then, whatever. I guess I’m part of the problem, but if you’re not working to better yourself, then fuck off, loser.

By the way, the dude in the OP has been pretty harshly rejected by the manosphere. His “real” (read: Muslim) name has been bandied about. I know this view will find little sympathy here, but I lament the rise of overt racism in the manosphere. A couple years ago, the brothers were still brothers, but that has changed. And the cross pollination of that into places like Yahoo! is more than troubling.

It is appropriate to be uncomfortable with the facts I pointed out. Jails and prisons SHOULD do a better job protecting inmates. Further, I whole heartedly support your position vis-a-vis not adding prisoner-on-prisoner violence as part of an inmates ‘just deserts’ (Chief Justice McLaughlin summed up the sentiment along the lines of “prison as punishment” as opposed to “prison for punishment”).

That being said, and in this particular case, I can’t help but take some comfort in the fact that this guy is going to have a rough time in county.

He wanted to be the big, bad, violent alpha? He wanted to show how important he was by hurting a child? Ok. Let the guys who are desperate to see their own kids, who are worried about their own kids during their absence, and who can see the face of their own children in this shit’s victim teach him how big and bad and important he really is.

@Doethreetwoone
Ok, then can I ask that you please adhere to the comments policy? In particular, this part:

No threats or violent comments. That includes telling someone to “die in a fire” or remarking that so-and-so would probably be better off dead. This rule is in effect even when you are talking about vile misogynistic shitbags.

Acknowledging that a guy like this is going to have a tough time in custody, and not being concerned by this fact, is a far cry from saying he is better off dead or should die in a fire. I trust you can appreciate the difference.

Now I have a mental image of a bunch of gym-rat lizard-bros in ripped T-shirts strutting about with that splayed-leg waddle lizards have going, “bro, do you even lift, bro?” and doing random push-ups 🤣

Yeah, how is bravery a gendered masculine trait? It is coded that way, but it needn’t be. Any one of any gender can be brave.

We should be getting away from labelling personality traits, behaviors or emotions as gendered.

I also completely disagree that successful men are less likely to display toxic masculinity. They’re just less likely to face negative consequences for it. I mean, look at Washington D.C. It’s full of rewarded toxic masculinity. The most obvious example being Trump, but it hardly begins and ends with him.

The question is *why* men who are violent are let off. You suggest it is b/c society *justifies* their violence as what women deserved – “he did it because he loved her”. I think it is more that society *excuses* their violence b/c it no longer values self-control – “he did it because he couldn’t help himself”. Of course, we may both be right.

What? No! People who are ashamed hide their failure. People who are ashamed of failure never admit that they failed. People who are shamed for failing never try.

Each failure is a data point, and now the person that failed has learned something that didn’t work. Now take that information, and try again!

It’s like watching a bad guy in media kill subordinates for failing him. Pretty soon he isn’t going to have any subordinates left, right?

You also have a bit of a contradiction here. You start off with –

As someone who has wasted far too much time both on the manosphere and anti-manosphere sites like this, it shouldn’t have taken so long.

And end off with –

The insight from the link, the results of which I bought immediately and completely as they line up so well with my life experiences, is that men who find success are by far the least toxic in their masculinity. But we don’t spend much time on the manosphere, or on normal message boards like Yahoo!, bitching about life. We’re too busy rocking it.

You include yourself as someone who is positive in your masculinity, but talk about how you don’t have time to hang out on message boards. (You might not have meant to include this site in the second comment but…)

Trying to tease out ‘masculinity’ and ‘femininity’ has become a bit of a challenge for me, actually. I’m not sure how to even define them, honestly, because so many of the ‘traits’ are either things that were decided by advertisers, or patriarchy pushing ‘desireable’ outcomes for men to be ‘providers’ and women to be ‘nurturers’.

I honestly don’t have an answer here, and it is something i find frustrating.

I just don’t think that you’ve teased out an example of positive masculinity.

But then artificially limit the choices to one. Some times disengaging is the right decision. (I’m not reading about Alberta politics right now, for example.) Sometimes pressing forward is the best decision, because who knows what will happen? Make mistakes! Get dirty!

Re bravery, I’m gonna throw a little more gas on the fire, and say that IME women are less likely to freeze up in a crisis than men. I suspect it’s partly acculturation, and partly how we already have to function through random adrenaline surges multiple times a week.

(Likewise, my most crisis competent friends tend to be the ones who have anxiety disorders.)

@Anonymous

I… don’t think that’s what she was saying. Also, patriarchy is not self-consistent.

And this bit about self control is especially a thing where you see a lot of hypocrisy and inconsistency, IMO. We’re supposed to praise men to the skies for having the self control not to take advantage of us, and at the same time shamed for not “seeing to their needs”. The same dudes will talk about self-control and not indulging impulses on the one hand, and about how men have their “needs” on the other, and get praised for both.

It’s not about how and why men are excused for their behavior. It’s that ways will be found to excuse them, because they are men.

There’s a lot going on in your comment, @John. I want to speak particularly about a couple things.

Please do not straw man this argument. I’m not just talking fights. A firefighter entering a burning building….project finance negotiations with high stakes…..the birth of one’s first child….a hard math test. All of these things are dangerous situations which one can face correctly or shrink from.

Sure. But they’re not inherently masculine. Unless you think I am being masculine when I solve a math problem? I don’t.

So, the reason we don’t hear about positive masculinity is because it is built into the fabric of our society, and that’s a good thing. You want cops & firefighters, right?

This is a complicated question! I don’t want people’s homes to be on fire. I will grant you that much.

You want brave men striving to build the world.

I think it takes lots of different people to build our world.

You want men to be ashamed of failure.

As Rhuu said and for Rhuu’s reasons, I super don’t want this.

. I know this view will find little sympathy here, but I lament the rise of overt racism in the manosphere.

I’m not sure I understand. Do you think folks here are happy about rising racism?

I think it is more that society *excuses* their violence b/c it no longer values self-control – “he did it because he couldn’t help himself”.

Whenever has society valued self-control in this case?

It has always been fashionable for men to respond with violence to but the pettiest of slights. It’s visible from Greek myths to XIX century style duels.

Stereotypes of women who seduce and corrupt good men who just can’t help themselves were likewise present since antiquity.

Yeah, being visibly overcome by emotion is not considered manly. But if you do a manly frown and deck in the face whoever has insulted your “honor”, your masculinity is safe.

Boys are taught they need to be strong; but they are also taught they musn’t hit girls.

Boys are taught not to hit girls, but they’re also taught that to be considered a real man they need to “own” a women. Somehow, this contradiction must be resolved, and it’s often resolved with violence.

Especially since traditional masculinity offers no positive ways to handle rejection. Using violence is perhaps unmanly, but less so than not using violence and just “taking it” and allowing oneself to be “cucked”.

Contrast, also, with the case of rape. Boys aren’t taught that rape is good, but if you ask rapists, most don’t consider what they did as rape. It’s always some other thing, always justified and in line with their view of what a good man should do.

I think self control is more expected of women than men anyway. Sure, women get more leeway to cry in certain situations, like a wedding or funeral. But displays of emotion are also used against us as evidence that we’re weak and fragile. Black women in particular have displays of emotion used against them and will also be labelled angry quite easily. It’s also far less socially acceptable for women to be hedonistic in any way. Drinking, casual sex, experimentation with drugs, travelling alone, going out late, blowing off obligations, being lax about housekeeping etc are all frowned upon for women but considered normal for men. Women are also expected to be a lot more polished and composed when it comes to dress, hair, body language, posture. Then there’s the tight control we’re expected to maintain over eating and weight.

Then there’s the fact that not only are we expected to regulate our own emotions, we must maintain men’s emotions as well. Women are said “emasculate” men, for example.

On the failure thing, I’m a bit put off by the framing of this. By choosing to accuse us of wanting men to feel ashamed of failure in the comments of this specific post, the implication is that Aranda failed to pick up women. Well, no. He was a serial harasser. Harassment isn’t an innocent failure to successfully interact with women. It’s an act of aggression. Men do not harass women because they don’t know any better and need to learn social skills. They do it to dominate and they do it because they view women as objects, public property. Talking about a man being met with contempt or fear because he’s harassing women as a mere failure is actually a perfect example of what I was saying. Men may be told not to hurt us, but whenever they do hurt us, there’s always plenty of apologia to go around. The vast majority of men would agree immediately that it was wrong to try and murder a child, yet a whole lot of them will identify with and empathize with Aranda all the same.

In my society, at least, this is the case. Boys should not hit girls, and wife-beaters and rapists, whatever their legal status in traditional society, were held in contempt.

As for having women – men are taught they’re not men unless they have a woman, but women are taught they’re not worth much unless they “get” a man, too. It is more a pressure to marry for both sexes than men vs. women, I think.

I’d like to lead off with an apparent contradiction. When I say I’m hardcore gender binary, I mean I am here to talk about masculinity and masculine problems. At the same time, it is not the case that masculinity and femininity are diametrically opposed. There’s not really enough time to unpack that right now, since I saw a lot of @ my name on the thread, I thought I would focus on those instead.

I am not denying for a microsecond that women & non-binary folks can be brave. Nor am I talking about it, at least right now. I’m tackling the problem of toxic masculinity and trying to paint (really just sketch) a picture of healthy masculinity, nothing more. So when I talk about bravery, I’m talking about things in a man’s heart, from this man’s heart.

What? No! People who are ashamed hide their failure. People who are ashamed of failure never admit that they failed. People who are shamed for failing never try.

Each failure is a data point, and now the person that failed has learned something that didn’t work. Now take that information, and try again!

This is a fantastic point. It is really important to own your failures. From my point of view, there’s a dangerous psychological trap in getting used to failure, so it’s best to face one’s failures. FSM knows I have. “Knocked down seven times, got up eight.”

But then artificially limit the choices to one. Some times disengaging is the right decision. (I’m not reading about Alberta politics right now, for example.) Sometimes pressing forward is the best decision, because who knows what will happen? Make mistakes! Get dirty!

I don’t know. Those are my musings. *le shrug*

100%. My point was more “It’s something you want to do, can do, and should do, but the little voice in your head told you not to do it, or move forward in a way that was bound to fail.” That is toxic, and I’d argue drives plenty of toxic masculinity. It’s better to ruminate on a failure than ruminate on not trying or self sabotage.

(and by the way, mass cold approach is self sabotage, along with all of the other evils involved, it is also self sabotage, that shit just can’t work)

I’m not sure I understand. Do you think folks here are happy about rising racism?

In general, no, folks here aren’t happy about rising racism. However, there’s more of a schism in the manosphere now than people are even aware of, over racism, and I’m guessing folks here won’t be sad about that.

I didn’t mention this!!! Like, were you happy with it when it was covert racism? Did you think there wasn’t any racism? Because I can tell you there super was, like, all the time.

Men do not harass women because they don’t know any better and need to learn social skills. They do it to dominate and they do it because they view women as objects, public property. Talking about a man being met with contempt or fear because he’s harassing women as a mere failure is actually a perfect example of what I was saying. Men may be told not to hurt us, but whenever they do hurt us, there’s always plenty of apologia to go around.

All of this is well taken. It’s not so much that he failed to pick up women, it’s that he seems like a loser in the first place. I have no idea how to help that, to be honest. And I do at least somewhat subscribe to the idea that it’s going to get worse, because women are rocking it and have much less use for losers.

You include yourself as someone who is positive in your masculinity, but talk about how you don’t have time to hang out on message boards. (You might not have meant to include this site in the second comment but…)

I know where I am, at least I know what website I’m on. I have struggled for a very long time. Make no mistake, I am rocking it. But my path has been torturous. I don’t know if what I have to say is useful or even welcome here, but I feel I lost other online communities because of bigotry and hatred. In retrospect, I think I was hardly tolerated anyway due to my overall liberal views.

One of the most heart wrenching sayings I’ve ever heard is this: “God grant me the self-confidence of the mediocre white man.” ugh. That one just breaks my heart, and makes me feel like the failure I led off with.

I’m on a thread on a feminist website, talking about a murderous incel, while being a man who has literally angered women by not hitting on them. I’ve always been good looking, but barbell training put me over the top. I sometimes dress down because of all the attention I get, although my uniform is bro dude tight v-neck t-shirt & jeans, and it works. Yet I am quite timid when it comes to actually suggesting we meet later for a drink when talking to someone clearly interested, while hordes of shitheads are out there harassing women.

Pretty fucking toxic juxtaposition, if you ask me.

Apologies for the rambling soul searching. Thanks to all for being kind.

The idea that prisons are extra dangerous for those guilty of sex crimes* or child abuse* is largely a myth. As a society, we claim to condemn child abuse and sex crimes, while actually doing everything possible to avoid addressing either. That is kind of rape culture 101. Everyone agrees rapists are evil, but a combination of denial, victim blaming, normalization, and apologia make it difficult for actual victims to get justice. The same is very much true of child abuse. Everyone agrees child abuse is wrong, but actual victims encounter denial and apologia.

The thing about prisons (and during my years as a NY defense attorney* I have spent a fair amount of time with inmates) is that prisons are just little microcosms of our society. So sure, everyone knows that inmates focus their violence on those guilty of sex crimes and child abuse, except the statistics don’t back that up. Individual inmates get abused by their peers for the same reason anyone gets bullied and abuses outside of prison. Inter-inmate violence is about power, domination, group dynamics, and profit. The stories that inmates tell themselves about justifiable violence are just stories or sometimes they are excuses for unrelated violence. I mean, sure someone guilty of rape or child abuse may get assaulted, but chances are those perpetrating the assault openly accept others convicted of those same crimes. Denial and apologia are as common in prisons as they are in society.

*I mention sex crimes and child abuse specifically because these myths most frequently claim that one or both of those will be punished by other inmates in prison.

*To be clear all prison violence is unacceptable. I am just clarifying that these alleged justifications for such violence are myth.

*I no longer do defense work. I currently represent crime victims in civil proceedings.

When confronted with a dangerous situation, there are three basic choices: engage carefully (read: fearfully), engage recklessly, or disengage (from a situation one could handle). It’s pretty clear that the first choice, bravery, is positive masculinity, while the other two choices are toxic masculinity. I cannot speak for all men, but the times I have disengaged from situations I could have handled, I felt shame, a deep, abiding shame that I cannot believe is mostly cultural.

I don’t know that anyone would describe disengaging from a confronting situation as “toxic masculinity”. “Toxic masculinity” refers to destructive things men are taught to do to prove their manliness, and I’ve never heard of avoiding danger and confrontation lauded as especially masculine. And this deep shame you feel… if you can’t believe it’s cultural, you’re suggesting it’s… genetic, or otherwise some innate aspect of being a man that cannot be taught?

I’m on a thread on a feminist website, talking about a murderous incel, while being a man who has literally angered women by not hitting on them. I’ve always been good looking, but barbell training put me over the top.

No honey, he wasn’t a loser. He was a harasser. which means he’s a bully that likes to make people feel uncomfortable, especially women. Somewhere he decided he couldn’t take on a grown women so he attacked a child that couldn’t possibly fight back against a grown man. You wanna come in here and tell us he’s a loser and try to tell us about positive masculinity when no one said masculinity is inherently toxic. Just stop sugar, these people who are much wiser then I am, will drag you to the next state.

I… @John, i’m not sure if you’re honestly trying to engage here, i think so? But describing your physical appearance and then saying that women have been upset that you haven’t made a move… You don’t need to humblebrag, here. No one cares how many women you’ve been with, flirted with, had relationships with, or how ‘good’ your lifting made you look. (Honestly, no funning, no one cares.)

I have to agree with @Diptych above. Toxic masculinity isn’t like… Aggression. Sometimes aggression is what someone needs in a situation. It becomes toxic when the only allowable option is hurt other people or yourself. So, dealing with all pain with anger, perhaps.

Also have to emphatically echo @Lainy, THIS is SUPER TOXIC

It’s not so much that he failed to pick up women, it’s that he seems like a loser in the first place.

HE WAS NOT A LOSER. A ‘loser’ in the English language (north american usage, can’t speak for others) has a hmm… Cultural definition we are all familiar with. He’s a sad sack guy who is sweet but a little awkward around people/women. Probably not a great job, not a great dresser, bit often judged more harshly by people than he deserves to be.

This guy is a creep. He’s frightening. He isn’t a harmless schmuck, but rather someone who threw drinking glasses at women (i think). He did enought that he was banned from the mall, at least.

Painting him as a ‘loser who failed to pick up women’ is toxic AF. He was someone who thought these stupid women were keeping him from having sex, which he was owed.

And then he hurt a child.

(Sorry for not being specific about what he did, it’s late and i’m tired.)

The idea that prisons are extra dangerous for those guilty of sex crimes* or child abuse* is largely a myth.

That’s interesting, because it definitely is the case here. To the extent that “Rule 43” (the provision* that allows certain prisoners to be isolated from the general population for their own safety) is slang here for paedophiles.

It’s very much the same though that prisons are just microcosms of general public attitudes; and that throws up some interesting observations about sex offences.

It wouldn’t be appropriate to clutter this thread with a discussion about the topic; but maybe next open thread if that would interest you in a US/UK comparison?

The idea that prisons are extra dangerous for those guilty of sex crimes* or child abuse* is largely a myth.

I respect that you were a defense attorney and were in a position to have experience, but my dad was a prison ER doctor and he had to treat the consequences of it not being a myth. Perhaps it varies by state and/or prison? Some truly heinous shirt went down while he was a prison doc.

@WWTH

Right?! I was giving him the benefit of the doubt just in case, but he kicked over the balance and is now using the scale dish as a shiny hat.

3) strong semen equaled boy baby, and if you have just daughters you must have weak as heck manly discharge

4) and a ton of other outdated/scientifically disproven stuff

Maaaaybe take anything the dude said about men and women with a large heaping is salt. I’ll give him some credit; while not as progressive as Plato, he wasn’t quite as patriarchal as the avererage dude in his culture, and it’s not his fault they didn’t have compound microscopes, but…

…he’s definitely not my go to guy for knowing what the difference is between men and women’s mindsets and behaviors.

the idea that bravery is male and compassion female comes from Aristotle.

It doesn’t though. He may have phrased a preexisting idea in a certain way, but he didn’t create it.

Plus, I’m not sure what you’re trying to say with that. You just kind of put that information out there, without any conclusion or after thought. Why does Aristotles opinion on men and women matter to the conversation? Do you agree with him? Is it just a neat fact you wanted to share?

@John
See, this is toxic masculinity – the idea that the most important thing is winning and everything is about winning or losing and if you don’t succeed you’re a loser. Women aren’t prizes to be won. A relationship isn’t something you win at or lose at. His inability to connect with someone in the way he hoped he would doesn’t mean he lost. It’s neither good nor bad. Not everyone meets someone they’re compatible with. That’s okay. It doesn’t make them losers.

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