Democrats talk tough on entitlements in fiscal cliff debate

Congressional Democrats are starting to draw a much tougher line on entitlements in the increasingly messy fiscal cliff talks, warning Republicans to keep their hands off Social Security and Medicare benefits.

Democrats also say they’ll refuse to look at GOP calls to dramatically slash Medicaid. And for them to even entertain any changes to Medicare and Medicaid, they say the price is for Republicans to agree to far higher taxes than they have flirted with so far.

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Reid on fiscal deals

Counterpart McConnell on deals

On Tuesday, Senate Majority Whip Dick Durbin (D-Ill.) went even further with a fresh push for negotiators to keep all entitlement discussions out of the fiscal cliff talks, and instead keep the focus solely on taxes and automatic spending cuts.

For many Democrats, these entitlement programs are part of their core identity — aggressively protecting the social safety net programs created by the New Deal and the Great Society is as much a part of the progressive worldview as tax cuts and smaller government are for conservatives. And if President Barack Obama reaches a bipartisan deal with GOP leaders that cuts entitlements, he can expect a rebellion from his allies on the Hill — that is, unless he wins what they consider major concessions from Republicans on taxes.

The tougher line reflects an emboldened group of Democrats on the Hill whose tougher public posturing could complicate efforts by the White House to cut a sweeping deal with the GOP.

But there are some differences in Democratic negotiating strategies, including among some who want a major deal on taxes and entitlements in the lame-duck session. New York Sen. Chuck Schumer recently floated the idea to raise taxes on the top 2 percent and woo the GOP by agreeing to “hundreds of billions of dollars” in cuts out of Medicare to help reduce the inefficiencies in the program. But he, too, has resisted cuts to Medicare benefits.

“I personally believe there are things that we can do with entitlements that don’t hurt beneficiaries,” Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid said Tuesday, noting that he and Obama have insisted that Social Security be off the table. “We hope that they can agree to the tax revenue that we’re talking about, and that is rate increases, and as the president’s said on a number of occasions, we’ll be happy to deal with entitlements.”

But there is pressure from off of Capitol Hill to immediately adopt a grand bargain to shave trillions from the debt with a mix of spending cuts and tax revenue. On Wednesday morning, Reid and his leadership team will hear from business leaders behind a national campaign initiative known as “Fix the Debt,” officials said.

Republicans are dead set against raising the top income tax rate from 35 percent to 39.6 percent for families who earn more than $250,000, as Obama and his allies on the Hill have repeatedly demanded. But GOP leaders have signaled they’d be open to new revenue from other sources, mainly through closing loopholes and capping deductions, including from high earners, a potential break from their no-new-tax pledge administered by anti-tax activist Grover Norquist.

Still, even with a modest increase in new revenue, Republicans counter that Democrats must agree to significant changes to entitlement programs in order to win GOP support for higher taxes.

“We all know that the most critical steps to be taken are to save the entitlements, which are on an unsustainable path to bankruptcy,” Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-Ky.) said after a caucus lunch Tuesday. “There’s no better time to begin to fix that problem than right now.”

Putting all Entitlements on a long term sustainable basis now is the price for raising personal rates and capping deductions for the better off. Niether side wants to do it so that makes it the perfect frame for the needed changes. To soften the pressure on funding consider adding a national sales tax on most goods and services. While we're at it be more aggressive in reducing the tax gap and add qualifications to Medicare and Medicaid to reduce abuse there as well.

Putting all Entitlements on a long term sustainable basis now is the price for raising personal rates and capping deductions for the better off. Niether side wants to do it so that makes it the perfect frame for the needed changes. To soften the pressure on funding consider adding a national sales tax on most goods and services. While we're at it be more aggressive in reducing the tax gap and add qualifications to Medicare and Medicaid to reduce abuse there as well.

Entitlement cuts are never going to happen so the Republicans might as well stop bringing it up. "Entitlements" (which there is really only one to speak of - Medicare), were not in danger at all until that idiot Bush decided to spread democracy all over the world on Uncle Sam's credit card. Slash the military spending and use the money to pay back what the Texas midget stole from the American people. And try to learn a lesson from this experience.

It’s like Stockholm Syndrome. An ever larger portion of their core constituency has become dependent on government. Those people, because of dependency, come to identify with government and support the government no questions asked. They are not free, but they don’t care. To ask the dems to limit entitlements is like asking hostage takers to untie their victims. What shall we call this new syndrome?

The Democrats have nothing to gain and everything to lose if they cave on Medicare and SS.

This is a golden opportunity to highlight the fact that the GOP is the anti Social Security party. Even older conservatives are telling me "just you watch, Obama will touch Social Security". If that happens, the Dems lose more elderly and blur the distinction between (D) and (R).

I call it Robin Hood Syndrome. Take from those who are financially responsible and give to those who now have no reason to strive to become that way. Smart! Build your own core dependency and then make sure you never pull the needle out of their arm. Once you get the media's support you are almost unbeatable. Only driving the bus over the cliff will produce reality therapy, like in Greece. As for those of us in the 2% category, Dems are about to find out how mobile the so called rich can be. Taking my money won't make a loser into a winner.

Are Replican's pushing to "slash" medicare and social security or reform over time?

What are the spending reform proposals on the table? We've heard only about the tax increases.

During campaign, the President said:

“I’ve put forward a specific $4 trillion deficit reduction plan…. And the way we do it is $2.50 for every cut, we ask for $1 of additional revenue…. That’s how the bipartisan commission that talked about how we should move forward suggested.”— Obama

http://www.washingtonpo... />

We are spending way beyond our means and our FUTURE obligations off the charts:

"If current policies continue, the nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office recently projected, federal debt will rise from 70 percent of gross domestic product today to about 225 percent by 2040 — not even remotely sustainable. By that point, the federal government would be spending nearly four times as much on debt interest payments as on education, skills training, research and development and nondefense infrastructure combined."

Not a dime of new tax revenues until transparent, verifiable, and irreversible long term spending reforms. Otherwise, I'd be happier for the dreaded fiscal cliff since CBO says we'll be going over one shortly in any event without reforms.

And preferable the tax increases are via tax reform. Taxpayors are screaming for tax reform.

These entitlement programs are critical safety nets that must be strengthen for next generation.

Comical...."let's talk about entitlements later". Democrats have never made a deal they intend to keep.

Based on the comments by the two leftists who first posted on this article, republicans should give them what they want and they can all stand around scratching their heads at what went wrong. I have a feeling the WH wants no part of that. It's much easier to just throw rocks from the sideline and blame everyone else to keep the mindless minions on their side.

Democrats had full control of the purse strings from 2007-2011 after many republican voters backed away from the Rove party in 2006. All the dems could do was toss gasoline on a fire. In 2005- 2006 the Bush administration warned about the housing bubble due to the sub-prime mortgage mess, and all dems could do was scream racism and double down on those programs. President Obama proposes budgets his own party won't even discuss in public.......and yet this is still everyone else' fault.

I call it Robin Hood Syndrome. Take from those who are financially responsible and give to those who now have no reason to strive to become that way. Smart! Build your own core dependency and then make sure you never pull the needle out of their arm. Once you get the media's support you are almost unbeatable. Only driving the bus over the cliff will produce reality therapy, like in Greece. As for those of us in the 2% category, Dems are about to find out how mobile the so called rich can be. Taking my money won't make a loser into a winner.

"Take from those who are financially responsible and give to those who now have no reason to strive to become that way."

Look at these comments. These jokers have not learned a thing from Romney Ryan 2012. Quit ridiculing the elderly, veterens, the disabled, students and the unemployed. Start trying to solve problems, create opportunity and reduce misery in this country. The Republicans are not the party of problem-solving. Thats why Obama won.

Davvid...Obama won because he used ads and surrogates to succesfully call the other guy a murderous tax cheat. Beyond that he has solved nothing. He's not king yet....he came as close as anyone should get with the majority his party enjoyed from 2007-2011 and all they did was pump up the debt. They had the same mentallity the republicans had when bush took office and it rightly cost them in 2006. That self absorbed mentallity cost the dems in 2011 and it will again as long as democrats and their supporters continue to show their true colors.

Cut the waste and fraud that goes on in the programs you want to keep, so a higher percentage of the money set-aside for the elderly, the vets and the disabled actually gets to them and you'll have fewer people opposed to chipping to help.

@goodgrief - I think Obama won different voters over for different reasons. Speaking to some older some what conservative people in my family before the election I heard more about how much Paul Ryan worried them. There wasn't as much negativity around Romney. They knew of course that Romney was rich and that his worldview is sort of typical of a wealthy business man but that wasn't necessarily a bad thing. The selection of Paul Ryan combined with the 47% gaffe made it seem like the ticket was more aggressively pro-rich and aggressively anti-everyone else than was previously thought. Its one thing to be anti-tax or to be pro-business but I think there is a bigger fear about an agressive dismantling of the social saftey net. The older some what conservative people in my family would never call it a "safety net" but they know what help they needed as they raised their family and got older. The youre-on-your-own brand of conservatism is really a losing philosophy. A more traditional conservativism that is about strong community institutions, good citizenship, faith and charity is the way to go for Republicans.

This is EXACTLY WHY we are in this mess!! You can be PART of the PROBLEM or .... Part of the SOLUTION! .... Our yahoos in Washington have ALL become EXTREMIST like this guy and are THE PROBLEM! Write them and tell them to STOP the childishness!! EVERYTHING needs to be on the table UNLESS we want to become like Greece. This is UNSUSTAINABLE!! WHY is THAT so hard for these ^#@! to understand?? I don't get it. Sorry for the rant!!

The Republicans have not put everything on the table. If you want SS on the table, I personally would like to see Republicans drop the Norquist pledge. The Democrats are learning from the Republicans' stubborness here. There is no pledge on the Democratic side on entitlements. Drop the pledge and you will see more Dems (politicians and their constituents) open up to bigger reforms.

This is opinion is EXACTLY why we are in this mess! "you can be Part of the PROBLEM or ... You can be part of the SOLUTION!! The goobers in Washington are virtually ALL part of the PROBLEM because they have ALL become EXTREMIST ... like this guy!! (open versus Closed primaries should help FIX that so the party bosses don't get to hand pick MORE extremist!!). STOP the childish NONSENSE so we don't follow Greece. EVERYTHING should be on the table, EVERYTHING!! (sorry for the rant I just don;t get why peole will cut off their noses and mine so their 'need to be right' stays happy)

The Republicans have NOT put everything on the table. If you want SS on the table, I personally would like to see Republicans drop the Norquist pledge. The Democrats are learning from the Republicans' stubborness here. There is no pledge on the Democratic side on entitlements. Drop the pledge and you will see more Dems (politicians and their constituents) open up to bigger reforms.

Partially true but inaccurate elsewhere which is typical of extremist everywhere including Washington!! The Dems did have control for 2 years but NOT 4! It was a push in the Senate and the House TOO small of majoriy too count on especially if you look at a few moderates who could go either way!! Granted the 2 years the Dems HAD control, 'Partisan Politics Pelosi' rammed it down their throats just as The Repubs did to Pelosi when they had control!! IF people will listen to ALL neworks, not JUST Fox or MSNBC you get BETTER perspective! Eventry BBC sometimes or FactCheck.org ..... ONLY ifyou want ACCURACY!! IF you don't .... MORE gridlock and the ????