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Topic: The Future of Star Wars Collecting (Read 17859 times)

Not sure if this is the right section, since this is broader than just the OTC, so sorry if it isn't. After reading a number of posts, and particularly Scott's, regarding the OTC rehash lineup for the rest of this year, it got me to thinking about the future of Star Wars...collecting-wise.

Sure, we know Hasbro has the license until 2018, but we don't know exactly what it means. It might just be "just in case", it might be so other companies don't have it, who knows. We also know that there might be a TV series (cartoon or live action) coming up after the movies are said and done with. And, of course, there will be more DVD/DVD set marketing pushes in the future with the Episode III disc as well as the inevitable "super duper spectacular fantabulous ultimate edition six disc set extravaganza" in the future. My question is, do you think Star Wars figures (or other collectibles) will still be available in retail stores, come down to just specialty shops, just online, or nothing at all?

Personally, I think we'll always have some sort of Star Wars. We may not have it at the retail level, like Scott mentioned, MOTU and Simpsons both have their die hard collectors as well, but they got dropped this year too. However, with so many smaller, more specific lines still going through various direct market sources, you would think some sort of Star Wars would be able to last (maybe even through SWShop.com, since they have such a great track record {sarcasm}). Do you think we will continue to see 3 3/4" figures, ships etc., just more limited in scope (instead of 40-50 a year?). Do you think it will move to more specialty, collector-driven pieces such as the Unleashed line (which I like), Gentle Giant's statues and busts (which look great as well, although I don't have any), or another avenue?

I was just curious what some of your opinions are on the future of Star Wars collecting. Of course there are always things to catch up on, vintage or otherwise, via ebay or other sources...but I was thinking more of the "new" product future. What will we see come, where will we be able to buy it, and what would you like to see happen realistically?

I really believe what I said, this line will not live past 2006. I thought at one time they might be able to squeeze it until 2008 but there is no way that will ever happen.

The margain on the line is so razor thin that the excess sales they once enjoyed no longer makes it possible to produce NEW and HIGH quality product at the same time. They have started to:

Reuse PartsReissue Old FiguresCut costs on MaterialsCut production Numbers (anyone remember the gluts of the 97-99 time frame...there would be new figures almost daily)Little to no advertisingRefuse to issue any new figures for the release of the DVD'sThings like not issuing the dais for JabbaHit and Miss Articulation and joint issues on new figures (instead of going all out, leave one arm with elbow articulation and the other without kind of stuff)

Which is why they extended the contract until 2018 they have to squeeze every single damn penny out of the line that they can

The biggest problem I see with that is all of these moves are really starting to alienate the fan base as a whole. I've seen nothing but complaints about these OTC figure reissues. I see the logic but I also ask why not produce NEW figures that Newbie DVD inspired collectors and old fossils can both pick up. That is what the Bib represents to me...a kick in the teeth. I don't really think a new Bib was necessary but a TON of people do and want one and for them to pull that one smacks of cheapness and being totally out of touch with the fan base.

So I really think this will result in reduced sales which in turn will mean retailers dropping everything at Toy Fair 2006. Maybe they can hit 2007 I just am not too optomistic

How to Change THings:#1 They really need to take a page out of Fan Relations 101 from Playmates, Palisades and Toy Biz and have a real voice within the community and not the secrecy they operate the line with

#2 Release NEW figures even if they are resculpts, people in general have gotten over the resculpt P&M that was commonplace in the late 90's and that's mainly due to the superior molding they have been doing

#3 Go all out on each and every figure. Bring back the good plastic, keep with the SuperArticulation

#4 Have fan polls more often

#5 Have Web chats

Ugh, I'm sort of disgusted after a few months of some rock solid work out of RI. My 3 cents

I suppose I'm a little more optimistic than Scott is. Not sure why, it's certainly not in character for me, but I am. I'm not expecting a long term flourish that keeps up all happy, but I am expecting it to make it a bit further. I think the sales of the OTC stuff will be the deciding point. Hasbro knows us schleps will buy stuff regardless, but I view the OTC, while disappointing, as a distinct, targeted effort at pulling in an army of new collectors, coincident with the DVD.

I also agree with Scott that most of the comments regarding the OTC figures are necessary. Not all, however and some interesting perspectives can be drawn from positive statements:

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Don't forget these figs are less aimed at those of us that already collect and more at people who may become "inspired" to collect after the get the Trilogy on DVD. I bet a lot of these will be tough to get even if they are re-hashes.

It is a good way to draw in new collectors. I would have liked a bigger push with new figures and really don't need these. But I think Hasbro is making a pretty big outlay in terms of individualized cards for each figure. They probably needed to save the money on new figs so they could produce individual cardbacks (razor thin margins etc.). They also seem to be following an old tried and true Hasbro marketing scheme. How many cards was the vintage Vader released on? Was that a bad thing at the time?

The rehash OTC figure assortment is pretty good:3 Vaders - sure, we don't need them, but Vader never sits on a peg and I've never seen one clearanced.4 Lukes - almost ditto, but not quite. Still, Luke is attractive to younger generations, perhaps their target market. The better part of the original vintage 12 figures are there. Luke and Vader above. Ben, Leia, R2, 3PO, stormtrooper, Jawas, Tusken, Han (even if the selection sucks). Pretty cool. Army builders are present: the aforementioned stormtrooper, tie pilot, scout trooper, snowtrooper. Never sit on the pegs either. Could even count the Tusken and Gam Guard here, though I dearly wish they had redone the Gam guard for some variety. Bounty Hunters: Greedo (failed BH), one of the best Boba's, IG-88, Bossk. I'm a little surprised they didn't release Dengar on the new card as well, since they had the new sculpt anyway. And Bossk is the new sculpt, hell, it's only been out for a couple of months. Really, if you are trying to attract new collectors, that's a pretty damn impressive assortment.

also from elsewhere

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Frankly, I don't see why people complain about re-releases at all. The way I see it, the re-releases don't really replace new sculpts, they're just there to suppliment them. It's not like there's not enough out there to collect, either. There's always something else if you really think there's not enough new figures and you really feel the need to buy something.

I don't entirely agree with the comments above, but outside of a relatively select few collectors, probably numbering in the 100s, of which we belong to that group, most people may not have all of these, notably the latter group of figures. And there is always other stuff to collect. The mind fairly boggles at the concept.

I think the worst thing is the quality of plastic being used currently. I think it was a Luke I was handling the other day that had a lightsaber hilt molded directly onto the figure and it was rubbery, not at all hard. Dire need of viagra there. Lando Skiff's staff is also incredibly soft plastic. Better hold that puppy vertical or it's going to look more like a sickle in month or so.

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How to Change THings:#1 They really need to take a page out of Fan Relations 101 from Playmates, Palisades and Toy Biz and have a real voice within the community and not the secrecy they operate the line with

#2 Release NEW figures even if they are resculpts, people in general have gotten over the resculpt P&M that was commonplace in the late 90's and that's mainly due to the superior molding they have been doing

#3 Go all out on each and every figure. Bring back the good plastic, keep with the SuperArticulation

#4 Have fan polls more often

#5 Have Web chats

These are all excellent points. Especially one and three. Two I'm not so keen on, mostly because I'd rather see a new figure than a resculpt in 99% of cases. I did not feel Bossk needed to be redone. Sure, it's higher quality, but I can't fathom people that really like vintage sculpts over modern sculpts (He-Man orange/green cards notwithstanding). I'm not so sure 4/5 will do much as they tend to be skewed somehow (#4) or dominated by certain personalities (#5) which is the nature of the medium. Well known entities, such as Scott, are widely respected and often have great ideas. Through no fault of their own though, they are likely to overshadow and possibly obscure some kid with a great idea. Us old farts tend to be pretty set in our mindset (redundant) at times. Not singling out Scott, just using you as an example.

There, I'm done be optimistic for the day. Gotta go kill something now so I feel better

I guess I'm suprised at my pessimism too, just looking at what has happened at retail this year to me means that current toy line models need to be thrown out the window and new agressive fan friendly ways of catering toy lines need to happen

And with that said, one only needs to look at the Muppets line, the epitome of good will and having a symbiotic management/fan base community and see that even then the line is on shaky legs having been dropped by almost everyone but etailers and specialty stores.

The kid aspect of this line is one that is often understated, I found comments by Jesse Falcon in a recent interview about Marvel Legends that the impulse buyer outweighs the collector so far in retail sales that its not even close. That is one way this line probably will succeed. Core characters, great new packaging and the DVD hype will intice Suzy Q. Soccermom to pick up some of the figures for Spoiled T Brat sitting in the cart. BUT, the big BUT, new figures would have sold better (even resculpts) I'm hoping for POTJish distribution and not some EpI type roll out and thing will be OK. We shall see, I'm not optomistic though after a few months of sun shine

I'd like to add my 2.5 cents As a 30+ something SW fan and collector, I don't see having much SW stuff within a few years of ep3 UNLESS some other kind of entertainment is released, like the rumored tv sereis. as far as the figures go for the OTC, I really don't see myself getting many of them, unless it's a 'gotta, wanna, needa, havea' figure I want. I don't get every figure epescially if it doesn't appeal to me. I didn't get all of the ep2 figs, some just looked like a waste of my money so I didn't get arena padme for instance. I get the figures and rarely vehicles I think are cool and want. I DO want the Sandcrawler - that is a major vehicle from ANH, it played a small but pivotal part. I prefer posability and likeness over features. While I like figs like shaak ti and luminara, their lack of posability hampers them in my eyes. I have them because they were very striking visually to have. Of all the posable features, the ball socket shoulder joint is the best. I hope the line continues for a while as I like SW in general, it won't be around forever.I'll enjoy it while it lasts. laters

Would anyone have guessed that the juggernaut MotU/He-Man line would die off so quick?

Simpsons WoS figures sold like hotcakes, then nothing - blah.

Even the Marvel Legends line that was so hot seems to have died off.

With the current economy, more and more toys are feeling the hurt. Collectors don't have the money to throw around so willy-nilly anymore and are more careful about what they buy.

I'd have to opt for pessimism too. I think we are on the downward slope of the Action Figure collecting world. The big companies overwhelm the fan base with a TON of crap and the fan base dies off. It happens to everything (baseball cards, comics etc.).

Remember the hype of a few years back when it seemed like every dang Independent comics character was getting an action figure? Now they are all piled up in a giant $2 bin at my comic store, including the HTF or "rare" crystal/glow-in-the-dark/nudie chase variants that came along.

I think that Action figure days are dying. Every movie that comes along spews AFs into the aisles and then the figures just sit. It's just taking a year or two longer to kill off SW because the Fan Base is that much larger.

It's sad, but I am starting to see the writing on the wall. I'll take September 2006 in the JD.com SW Death Pool. I don't expect ther to be ANY new Star Wars figures in the back-to-school Toy aisle resets that indicate we are heading into the start of the Christmas 2006 shopping season.

I wonder though what the next big thing will be? Cards to Comics to Action Figures to ?

Just a general statement which I don't know if anyone saw yesterday or not...both CNN and Fox News reported (on their little tickertape thing) that a recent study found children prefer video games to action figures by a 2:1 margin, and that children spend an average of 6 hours a week playing video games. The former I agree with, as I see fewer and fewer children in the toy aisles these days; the latter I disagree with because the majority of kids I know spend a lot more than six hours a week in front of the X-Box/NES/Sega/PS/whatever. I have my own theory on videogames being a parent's dream babysitter, but I'm overly paranoid and conspiratorial in my thought processes, so I will refrain from that here.

The point to this, and how it relates to SW collecting, the OTC line, and toys in general is this: if kids are more and more turning away from the "archaic" action figures for more interactive things such as video games, are toys in general headed for a collapse? Not so much from an investment standpoint (although I'd laugh my ass off if all these speculators and their half-circle, short-saber, bent finger MOCs they bought to send little Johnny through college suddenly became worthless), but more from a conceptual standpoint. Is the entire concept of an action figure outdated?

As popular as "The Simpsons" is, the figures came out too many and too fast to sustain an ongoing line. Yes, there are plenty of characters in Springfield, but the availability was what kept me from buying more of them. I would have gotten an Apu, Sideshow Bob, Jasper, Marge, or Mayor Quimby in a second, but I wasn't about to shell out 25 dollars for a playset to get them. Even the characters who were released as individually carded figures were pretty hard to find at times: I never saw a Barney and I only saw Groundskeeper Willie once (thank goodness I bought him when I did). The point is this: they could have put out about 15 figures a year (along the lines of what the 1980's Joe line did) and released them year-round so people could actually go out and find them instead of releasing one wave of six figures every other month and having so many of them be like finding a needle in a haystack. I commend Playmates for rereleasing those two packs with miniscenes, but it was a last gasp in an already dying line from where I stood.

As for He-Man, it was nobody's fault but Mattel's that the line failed. If you ship a case of 18 Skeletors and 18 He-Mans with one each of the supporting characters and only one of a particular figure in every 20 cases, then it's not retail's fault that certain figures aren't being ordered. I feel sorry for the collectors of the Eternia stuff, but it's totally and completely Mattel's fault that things ended for that line. I only hope the Batman collectors don't have to go through this same type of thing (although according to a friend, Mattel's already mishandling that line as well).

It's because of this that I'm actually hoping that the SW line ends by 2007 at the earliest. Spend 2005 working on the Episode III figures and vehicles, and use 2006 to do all the stuff people have been requesting for years (more Ewoks, Padme in her various gowns, new Piett-okay, that's just me) and the remainder of Episode III stuff to finish off the line in a definitive manner. In other words, end the line before retailers end it for them.

I have a bad feeling that after Episode III, retailers are not going to want to see SW ever again, and with no new movies coming out, there will be no reason in their eyes to continue to order the line. With more and more kids going to the electronics aisle instead of the toy department anyway, I fear the action figure is a dying breed. I'll miss the line if it goes, but I'd much rather see it die gracefully than have it go out the way the vintage line did with a choke and a sputter.

It's sad, but I am starting to see the writing on the wall. I'll take September 2006 in the JD.com SW Death Pool. I don't expect ther to be ANY new Star Wars figures in the back-to-school Toy aisle resets that indicate we are heading into the start of the Christmas 2006 shopping season.

I agree. Jeff, we are thinking along the same lines. I don't think the line, as we know it, will last past the summer of 06. If there is a live or cartoon SW series, that could prolong the dying of the line but I'd be very surprised to see new figures by the beginning of 07.

I believe one point that was mentioned above isn't entirely correct. The OTC is not only geared to kids who fall in love with the trilogy for the first time with these DVD's. It's not geared to fans who have wholes in there collection either. These spiffy new cards are also geared to the carded collector. The problem is Hasbro is causing the hobby to lose lots of carded collectors. Just look at how many of us are loose collectors. Look at how many more collectors turn into loose collectors.

Here's a look into the future when the Prequel Special Edition's hit DVD. PTC with repacks of Ep.1 Midnight Madness figures and Ep.2 Midnight Madness figures. Can you imagine Anakin (Peasant Disguise) on a new card? SW figures collecting is on the downside of the hill unless something changes quick.

Why did the line start up in 1995? Presumably as a premarketing tool for the re-release of the movies in 1997? At least that's what I assume to be the case. If so, then Hasbro may well have a finite view of the line anyway.

Certainly we'll get a flush of figures next year that deal with End of an Order or whatever Ep. III is to be called. That will carry through the end of 2005. Practically speaking we'll go to something POTJ-ish in the fall of 2005, spring 2006. I expect the last push will indeed be the Christmas season of 2006.

Unless something else, tv, movie, comes along. Even at that though, I expect they will be duds along the lines of the Droids/Ewoks cartoons.

I dearly hope no one is still collecting for the 'value' of the figures. Lord, as Jeff pointed out, cards, comics, figures all go through the same phase. The most laughable thing I've seen were a guy and his dad buying up McFarlane sportspicks last year to fund his college education. They were easily driving prices up by 50% over normal ebay value. Pretty funny and pretty sad at the same time. Sure enough, many have lost value already, less than a year later.

I'm going to mellow a statement a bit. I don't think that these are entirely geared at carded collectors. I think that market is too small. Certainly it has some appeal and I think will create some substantial bonus sales for Hasbro, me included as I'll scrap some of my other carded Vaders of the same version in lieu of these versions. Same for some Lukes as well. But I still do think the push is towards getting newer collectors.

The comments about kids and video games are well considered too. I think we suffer from action figure overkill as much as anything else. Remember the Hulk movie? Even Sears up here, which carries next to nothing, carried those. I can now buy them for around $2.50 Cdn a fig. Pretty sad. But absolutely every movie has a figure line now and that seems highly detrimental. I think it very negatively impacts on the other lines that might actually sell (muppets, WOS, star wars) because they take up space that could be dedicated to more succesful or consistent lines. Van Helsing toys? Oh, please, give me a break.

I have to wonder out loud about something though. How long will the video game market be safe? Strange to think this way, but all you see in the media is obesity this, obesity that. Naturally they are targeting fast food at the moment. But if they start winning those lawsuits and the income starts to dwindle, how long before they pick a new target that is another root cause of obesity, that being sedentary activities? Oh sure, it's a stretch and a load of crap as well, but who really thinks some little old lady should have been awarded anything for burning herself with hot coffee? I'm not for a moment suggesting that the case would be valid, but litigation often has little to do with validity and more to do with deep pockets.

My last hope is a media blitz that is SUCCESSFUL. Clone Wars was, for what I've seen and heard, a success. It was financially not full of pitfalls in the core brands, and with that, I think Hasbro CAN sustain life after Star Wars films.

The problem is, what will LFL do that Hasbro's going to NEED just to stay alive?

Clone Wars basic figures killed... Vehicles (new ones anyway) seemed to do well for a time at least.

Short of this (and this would be a miracle because Hasbro's teamwork with other licenses in the past have failed and SOME aspects of Clone Wars have failed), I cannot imagine Star Wars living long beyond the films.

I'd be slightly more liberal than Scott... I'd say 2008 as an absolute LATEST breath... I think there's a SLIGHT ability to maintain a skimpy license on no "fuel" or future for 3 years past a film. I believe this because the original line lasted, and they didn't have a core collecting (adult) audience at the time.

I give Hasbro that maximum... I'd say 2007 as my solid guess though. One year after the last film? I dunno, that's a little early in my view... I think you've gotta imagine there's still some hype in 2006 trickling from the film.

So I'm going with 2007-2008... If it goes beyond that, I would only imagine it's a successful tie-in to games, books, comics, and the BIG question is, "Can Lucasfilm, in conjunction with Hasbro and other licensees, make a TV series that actually appeals to kids, adults, and strangers to the brand"?

They pull this off, they can eek out more years if they DO THE LINE JUSTICE. They don't and they'll run the line dry at the minimum cost. Things will piddle out.

And I'll look at my collection, take a big sigh, and start listing what it is I need to make myself, and make ultimately better than Hasbro would've anyway.

Pretty much what everyone has said is dead on, though I disagree with the thought that the OTC line could be the death knell of the Modern line. We all know OT items sell better than anything else in Star Wars and despite some of the ridiculous picks for rehashing in the OTC, the packaging alone is going to sell a lot of these items. What we should be worrying about is the eventual blitz of Episode 3 based toys. We've seen it happen with TPM & AOTC, the insane glut of toys flooding stores for years after the movies ended. People are still finding the initial Saga figs at stores all the time and I've heard of occassions where Episode 1 toys pop up now and then do the storerooms being cleared out. This is likely to happen again for Episode 3, despite the knowledge Hasbro and their retail partners have from the previous prequels. The difference between now and then will be without another movie definitively coming out, the glut that will be Episode 3 toys will most likely push the retail partners to say "enough is enough, you've got nothing more to give us and what we have now we're going to lose money on." And that will be it, no more Star Wars in mainstream retail outlets and that will lead Hasbro to limit production to a minimum if not completely and the end will arrive. Best to see the knife coming to our backs now, before it's too late.

All excellent points guys. Not much to add after that barrage of insight, but I guess I can point out who/what I generally agree with...

I don't think the line will die off as soon as Scott thinks. I'm more with Jess, in that I think it can run at least into 2007, on the Ep. 3 hype alone. The majority of the initial hype will get it through a year pretty easily I think, and the remaining adult collectors can drive it another year beyond that I think, provided Hasbro plays along and offers some new OT stuff, of course.

Scott's points of Hasbro getting more in touch with, and really communicating with it's Star Wars collecting fanbase are very valid, and something we've long begged for. I do agree that if the line is going to live on for any length of time beyond a couple years, they've absolutely got to at least listen to us a bit more, and make a few appropriate changes to keep a lot of the adult collectors around. They've done this sporadically in the past, and have shown us that they DO read through the forums, but what drives me virtually insane is that whenever we start getting down in the dumps, Hasbro springs some really promising news, ideas, designs on us to really boost our spirits back up. But then shortly thereafter, they seem to be content in knowing they've kept us around longer, and they revert back to a bunch of absolute horse$h!t figures and ideas. It seems to be a never-ending cycle now. That's why I'm expecting Hasbro to surprise us relatively soon with some good all-new figure announcements, to make up for hitting us with that checklist of recarded rehash garbage. They read the boards. They know we're all pissed off now, and I think they'll likely try to boost our spirits once again pretty soon...

Speaking of that new OTC checklist... It's a mixed bag here, as far as what Hasbro's thinking, and what consumer reaction will be. Obviously these aren't your average recards, since the OTC design is so freakin' beautiful. So I think a lot of the carded collectors will go ahead and scoop 'em all up without too much of a gripe. I've also heard a lot of loose collectors say that they're thinking about buying some of these to actually keep carded, since they look so nice. That will obviously help make up for the fact that most loose collectors won't otherwise be rebuying a lot of these older figures, if but only a little.

So to further make up for the lack of loose collectors involvement, I think Hasbro's (mistakenly?) thinking that they're going to reel in the kids again, with the DVD marketing push. Sure, they'll pick up a few of them for several months perhaps, but as always - the adult collectors will be the folks that determine the life of the line. But I think the kids will at least scoop up some of the super-duper rehashes, like Luke, Han, Leia & Vader that we're pretty much sick to death of seeing.

Fortunately, there's a decent number of potential army builders and custom fodder in that list too - 13 or so by my count. So those should all sell pretty well still. Plus, that list includes most of the recently issued Saga figures, which some people may still have some trouble finding in stores right now, as the Saga line winds down and stores are cutting back on their orders of it. So I think those will also potentially move reasonably well. I do however see the OTC vehicles, with those terrible old molds, sitting around damn near forever. Big time flop coming with those piece of garbage.

I think what I'm saying here, is that I believe the OTC figure line will do fine at retail. Not spectacular, and sure there's going to be the usual alotment of some solid pegwarmers, but I think it'll move for the most part. BUT, what it's not going to do is give the majority of us collectors a good feeling about the line in general, and it's future. It's not really enhancing any of our collections, especially the loose ones, any further outside of the Dagobah and Bespin waves. But if Hasbro's smart, and knows we're all down in the dumps right now, they'll soon announce a few more assortments for the OTC line - a Cantina group of aliens for starters. Then all will be good again in Star Wars collecting land.

Perhaps they'll make a push for more of the VOTC styled figures, and surprise us with another assortment of those instead. Either way, I think we've still got some good surprises coming near the end of this year, or early in 2005. But if this recarded crap ain't your thing, at least it gives you some time to save up your moolah for C3, and the final Ep. 3 onslaught of merchandise.

I see the line going into 2007 and dying in that year. I agree that momentum from Ep. III will carry it into 2007. I also think the answer to the line is seen in the Clone Wars figures. I am 39 and have a 10 year old son who loves SW and LOTR (wonder why? Because I do?). Anyway, I hunted like mad last summer and was able to find every figure at retail, and bought at least 2 of each figures (some 3 packs of clones I bought 3). That line was successful, and represents what I think Hasbro needs to do to make the line work after 2006/2007. Lucas will put out special TV series etc. and Hasbro will make short lines to support those releases (like the Clone Wars). Once the theme is over, the line is over and retailers are done until the next theme/story/special comes out. Also, the 3 3/4 line will die out. I do not think that other high end collectables like the busts and other items will stop. These will increase in demand and remain in limited runs for the true collector. I guess that is why I have preordered for SW everything I want, and same for LOTR. Now I have to wait for the preorders to deliver.

Logged

"For too long gentleness has been equated with weakness. Yet it takes more strength to be gentle than to be mean."

The two problems I see with EU is that the demand is not as high as it is even for PT figures and the other is that people say they want EU figures but their wants in said arena are so diverse its hard to get a good handle on what to produce (with the exception of the Solo kids).

It almost has to be things like the Clone Wars line (regular or animated) for it to happen...