Catholicism is filled with witchcraft and evil!

The Catholic church is Satan's church, Jesus has nothing to do with it. Do your homework. Do some research about the perversion and filth coming out of the Satanic whorehouse known as the Vatican.

People need to be far away from calling Catholic priests 'father' and confessing sins to them, people also need to stop worshiping and praying to the mother of Jesus. It is evil. Burn your rosaries and come away from the Catholic church, it is filled with witchcraft and evil!

Those priests will drag you right into hell with them.

Quoting: Mark Brander

The Traditional Catholic Church is God's Church.But you are correct, it is currently filled with witchcraft and evil.

This was prophesied by Sister Lucia of the children of Fatima.In her visions she was shown events of the last days.Among the was the corruption of the Church with heresy and false teachings.It was spoken of specifically in the Third Secret of Fatima, which she penned many years ago.

Research it and learn, rather than looking like a fool claiming God's Church is the Church of Satan.

Quoting: Traditional Catholic 1431278

You are not helping anyone come to the true faith with your traditional righteousness.

We know the anti-Christ is going to attack the Church,she is the true faith. We know of the loss of faith,we're in the end times.

Jesus makes it clear in the messages, He abhors condemningTraditionalists and Cafeteria Catholics trying to dividethe Church. Traditionalists have, who can imagine, mocked Pope John Paul II and Pope Benendict. There is one Holy Apostolic Church, the Roman Catholic Church. It's obvious, the Novus Ordo Mass is not as reverent or honoring to God as the Tridentine Mass. The Holy Eucharist is still valid in the N.O. Jesus states He will do anything to save souls even the loss of reverence. Some day, one hopes and I pray there will be no more Novus Ordo Mass.

Bash me if you want to, but I decided long ago that we all take different roads to God and, as long as we are traveling that spiritual highway, on a quest for understanding, peace, and knowledge, we are doing what is right for our souls.

I don't like bashing any religion or even those who aren't religious. Belief in a Higher Power is a very personal thing that we have to find for ourselves. Now I will duct tape my mouth LOL.

As bad as it is to have a Masonic priest, bishop, or Douai College president, imagine how much damage to the Roman Catholic Faith a Judeo-Freemasonic Cardinal or Pope can do. Knowing the secrets of the Church from within, a Freemason holding the Church's most intimate knowledge and power becomes the most serious of problems. A Masonic Pope has the power to promote his Masonic 'brothers' to Bishop, and Cardinal. Once they hold these offices, you can bet they will never allow a non-Freemason to advance. A Freemasonic Pope also has the power to hold the Seven Sacraments in his hand, which is described in Apocalypse 1:20. Pius XII was worthy to open the book of the Seven Sacraments (Seals) and proceeded to destroy the Seven Sacraments in 1944 by replacing the Holy Ghost with the Holy Spirit. He also advanced Roncalli and Ottaviani to Cardinal and, after his death, they went on to become anti-popes John XXIII and Paul VI, who dealt the final deathblows to Catholicism just 20 years later. Don't believe for a second that the 1958 Papal Conclave just happened without help from the inside. The reality is, the Conclave was so Masonic in 1958 that the coup and its Siri opposition were coordinated! In fact, there is evidence that Pius IX was initiated into Freemasonry in 1826, that Pius V was Masonic (which is why he added the Lord's beads to the Rosary and called the Council of Trent), even Pope Clement V was listed as a Freemason in the 1300's!

Another thread about the catholic religion!Mark, it does no good talking to them, they will never see it. They profess to be the Original church, the Bible is all their doing, they couldnt be further from the truth, but they can not be reasoned with. I feel sad thinking about the power given to the vatican. It is not ruled by a pope, but a king that calls himself pope. he sits before an inverted cross, surrounded by idols and gold, everything is steeped in mysticism and ceremony. The catholic religion fails to realize that Jesus is the leader of the true religion. He is still alive, His throne still belongs to Him.The Catholics actually split from the orthodox religion after peter and paul were martyred in rome. They claimed falsely that since those men died in rome, the roman sect held more power than the rest of the church and began making changes to doctrine against the rest of Jesus' church's will. They had the power of the political and military roman empire surrounding them and protecting them, whereas the rest of the curch was out in the midst of unrest and busy defending itself. The catholic church continued making changes, and finally the split of catholocism from the original orthodox religion that Jesus left to Peter was completed, and the catholic church has been a rogue powerhouse ever since.It is not the original church. it claims to be but is not, and none of the followers today will ever look at the grossness of what they do. I am not saying they are condemned people, as I am not to judge the fate of a person's soul, but I imagine they will have some explaining to do on judgement day. Hopefully Jesus will have forgiveness for everyone, but I am hoping that those that have allowed evil to penetrate into religion will have a special place in hell, if there is one.

Another thread about the catholic religion!Mark, it does no good talking to them, they will never see it. They profess to be the Original church, the Bible is all their doing, they couldnt be further from the truth, but they can not be reasoned with. I feel sad thinking about the power given to the vatican. It is not ruled by a pope, but a king that calls himself pope. he sits before an inverted cross, surrounded by idols and gold, everything is steeped in mysticism and ceremony. The catholic religion fails to realize that Jesus is the leader of the true religion. He is still alive, His throne still belongs to Him.The Catholics actually split from the orthodox religion after peter and paul were martyred in rome. They claimed falsely that since those men died in rome, the roman sect held more power than the rest of the church and began making changes to doctrine against the rest of Jesus' church's will. They had the power of the political and military roman empire surrounding them and protecting them, whereas the rest of the curch was out in the midst of unrest and busy defending itself. The catholic church continued making changes, and finally the split of catholocism from the original orthodox religion that Jesus left to Peter was completed, and the catholic church has been a rogue powerhouse ever since.It is not the original church. it claims to be but is not, and none of the followers today will ever look at the grossness of what they do. I am not saying they are condemned people, as I am not to judge the fate of a person's soul, but I imagine they will have some explaining to do on judgement day. Hopefully Jesus will have forgiveness for everyone, but I am hoping that those that have allowed evil to penetrate into religion will have a special place in hell, if there is one.

Quoting: chrissiel123

chrissie, professing her "church of one" is going to explain the history of Catholicism. But, Jesussaid He would never leave His Church in Matthew 16:18-19?

In your "church of one" it's easy. You get to pick theday to go to Church, that is if you go, to keep God's Commandment. Can't give a number, the Protestants have renumbered the Commandments and will object. You've chosen Saturday. You forget Scripture, the reason, God has changed that day to Sunday. We are in the New Covenant.

Another thread about the catholic religion!Mark, it does no good talking to them, they will never see it. They profess to be the Original church, the Bible is all their doing, they couldnt be further from the truth, but they can not be reasoned with. I feel sad thinking about the power given to the vatican. It is not ruled by a pope, but a king that calls himself pope. he sits before an inverted cross, surrounded by idols and gold, everything is steeped in mysticism and ceremony. The catholic religion fails to realize that Jesus is the leader of the true religion. He is still alive, His throne still belongs to Him.The Catholics actually split from the orthodox religion after peter and paul were martyred in rome. They claimed falsely that since those men died in rome, the roman sect held more power than the rest of the church and began making changes to doctrine against the rest of Jesus' church's will. They had the power of the political and military roman empire surrounding them and protecting them, whereas the rest of the curch was out in the midst of unrest and busy defending itself. The catholic church continued making changes, and finally the split of catholocism from the original orthodox religion that Jesus left to Peter was completed, and the catholic church has been a rogue powerhouse ever since.It is not the original church. it claims to be but is not, and none of the followers today will ever look at the grossness of what they do. I am not saying they are condemned people, as I am not to judge the fate of a person's soul, but I imagine they will have some explaining to do on judgement day. Hopefully Jesus will have forgiveness for everyone, but I am hoping that those that have allowed evil to penetrate into religion will have a special place in hell, if there is one.

Quoting: chrissiel123

chrissie, professing her "church of one" is going to explain the history of Catholicism. But, Jesussaid He would never leave His Church in Matthew 16:18-19?

In your "church of one" it's easy. You get to pick theday to go to Church, that is if you go, to keep God's Commandment. Can't give a number, the Protestants have renumbered the Commandments and will object. You've chosen Saturday. You forget Scripture, the reason, God has changed that day to Sunday. We are in the New Covenant.

Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1431202

you are bringing things from other threads into this one, but that is fine with me. i only speak truth to the best of my studies on the topic.

Yes, Jesus said He will never leave His church. I am not arguing with you on that, I am saying that the catholic church is not His. I am saying He left it to Peter, and after Peter's death the roman sect of Jesus' church tore away from its foundations and set itself up as catholocism.and it was the catholics that changed the number of the commandments.

The Catholic church is Satan's church, Jesus has nothing to do with it. Do your homework. Do some research about the perversion and filth coming out of the Satanic whorehouse known as the Vatican.

People need to be far away from calling Catholic priests 'father' and confessing sins to them, people also need to stop worshiping and praying to the mother of Jesus. It is evil. Burn your rosaries and come away from the Catholic church, it is filled with witchcraft and evil!

Those priests will drag you right into hell with them.

Quoting: Mark Brander

Some of what the deluded mr. brander says is true, somewhat. Most catholic clergy have no understanding of how the vatican and higher-ups have perverted their presentation of Christianity. Lots of error within the roman catholic church, but no priest, nun, bishop or pope can "drag you to hell"...

God KNOWS your heart. If you Truly Love Christ Jesus you will not be lost or condemned.

Of all the original "protestant" denominations, only The Baptists have not re-unioned or signed a treaty of mutuality with the rcc. Baptists likely remember too well all the murders the good rcc men committed upon their Ana-Baptist forebears when they were run out of Germany and France and setupon in the Alps and murdered by the tens of thousands.

Actually, no denomination or sect is likely to have True Witness for its members these days. No reason to hate the catholics. Most love Christ and try to be good catholics.

Can't love a church, denomination or sect more than you Trust and Love God though. That is where so many go awry.

Brander is about as anti-Christ with his false-witnessing as they come.

The Catholic church is Satan's church, Jesus has nothing to do with it. Do your homework. Do some research about the perversion and filth coming out of the Satanic whorehouse known as the Vatican.

People need to be far away from calling Catholic priests 'father' and confessing sins to them, people also need to stop worshiping and praying to the mother of Jesus. It is evil. Burn your rosaries and come away from the Catholic church, it is filled with witchcraft and evil!

Another thread about the catholic religion!Mark, it does no good talking to them, they will never see it. They profess to be the Original church, the Bible is all their doing, they couldnt be further from the truth, but they can not be reasoned with. I feel sad thinking about the power given to the vatican. It is not ruled by a pope, but a king that calls himself pope. he sits before an inverted cross, surrounded by idols and gold, everything is steeped in mysticism and ceremony. The catholic religion fails to realize that Jesus is the leader of the true religion. He is still alive, His throne still belongs to Him.The Catholics actually split from the orthodox religion after peter and paul were martyred in rome. They claimed falsely that since those men died in rome, the roman sect held more power than the rest of the church and began making changes to doctrine against the rest of Jesus' church's will. They had the power of the political and military roman empire surrounding them and protecting them, whereas the rest of the curch was out in the midst of unrest and busy defending itself. The catholic church continued making changes, and finally the split of catholocism from the original orthodox religion that Jesus left to Peter was completed, and the catholic church has been a rogue powerhouse ever since.It is not the original church. it claims to be but is not, and none of the followers today will ever look at the grossness of what they do. I am not saying they are condemned people, as I am not to judge the fate of a person's soul, but I imagine they will have some explaining to do on judgement day. Hopefully Jesus will have forgiveness for everyone, but I am hoping that those that have allowed evil to penetrate into religion will have a special place in hell, if there is one.

Quoting: chrissiel123

chrissie, professing her "church of one" is going to explain the history of Catholicism. But, Jesussaid He would never leave His Church in Matthew 16:18-19?

In your "church of one" it's easy. You get to pick theday to go to Church, that is if you go, to keep God's Commandment. Can't give a number, the Protestants have renumbered the Commandments and will object. You've chosen Saturday. You forget Scripture, the reason, God has changed that day to Sunday. We are in the New Covenant.

Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1431202

protestants changed them, is that what you have been taught?? here they are, the Hebrew catholic and protestant commandments, campared, can you spot the differences????

Protestant1. Thou shalt have no other gods beforeme.2. Thou shalt not make unto thee anygraven image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or thatis in the earth beneath, or that is inthe water under the earth: Thou shaltnot bow down thyself to them, norserve them: for I the Lord thy God ama jealous God, visiting the iniquity ofthe fathers upon the children unto thethird and fourth generation of themthat hate me; And showing mercyunto thousands of them that love me,and keep my commandments.3. Thou shalt not take the name of theLord thy God in vain: for the Lord willnot hold him guiltless that taketh hisname in vain.4. Remember the sabbath day, to keepit holy. Six days shalt thou labor, anddo all thy work: But the seventh day isthe sabbath of the Lord thy God: in itthou shalt not do any work, thou, northy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant,nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle,nor thy stranger that is within thygates: For in six days the Lord madeheaven and earth, the sea, and all thatin them is, and rested the seventh day:wherefore the Lord blessed the sabbathday, and hallowed it.5. Honor thy father and thy mother:that thy days may be long upon theland which the Lord thy God giveththee.6. Thou shalt not kill.7. Thou shalt not commit adultery.8. Thou shalt not steal.9. Thou shalt not bear false witnessagainst thy neighbor.10. Thou shalt not covet thy neighbor’shouse, thou shalt not covet thyneighbor’s wife, nor his manservant,nor his maidservant, nor his ox, norhis ass, nor any thing that is thyneighbor’s.King James BibleHebrew1. I am the Lord thy God, who broughtthee out of the land of Egypt, out ofthe house of slavery.2. Thou shalt have no other gods beforeMe. Thou shalt not make untothee a graven image, nor any mannerof likeness, of any thing that is in heavenabove, or that is in the earth beneath,or that is in the water under theearth; Thou shalt not bow down untothem, nor serve them; for I the Lordthy God am a jealous God, visiting theiniquity of the fathers upon the childrenunto the third and fourth generationof them that hate Me; Andshowing mercy unto the thousandthgeneration of them that love Me andkeep My commandments.3. Thou shalt not take the name of theLord thy God in vain; for the Lord willnot hold him guiltless that taketh Hisname in vain.4. Remember the sabbath day to keepit holy. Six days shalt thou labour, anddo all thy work. But the seventh day isthe sabbath in honour of the Lord thyGod; on it thou shalt not do any work,neither thou, nor thy son, nor thydaughter, thy manservant nor thymaidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thystranger that is within thy gates; Forin six days the Lord made the heavensand the earth, the sea, and all that isin them, and rested on the seventhday; therefore the Lord blessed thesabbath day, and hallowed it.5. Honour thy father and thy mother;in order that thy days may be prolongedupon the land which the Lordthy God giveth thee.6. Thou shalt not kill.7. Thou shalt not commit adultery.8. Thou shalt not steal.9. Thou shalt not bear false witnessagainst thy neighbor.10. Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour’shouse; thou shalt not covet thyneighbour’s wife, nor his manservant,nor his maidservant, nor his ox, norhis ass, nor any thing that is thyneighbour’s.Bloch Publishing Company (1922)Catholic1. I am the Lord thy God. Thou shaltnot have strange gods before me.2. Thou shalt not take the name of theLord thy God in vain.3. Remember thou keep the SabbathDay.4. Honor thy Father and thy Mother.5. Thou shalt not kill.6. Thou shalt not commit adultery.7. Thou shalt not steal.8. Thou shalt not bear false witnessagainst thy neighbor.9. Thou shalt not covet thyneighbour’s wife.10. Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour’sgoods.Peter Gasparri, “Catholic Catechism” (1932)Which Ten Commandments?Positive Atheism Magazine www.PositiveAtheism.org

protestant and hebrews both kept the second commandment as it was. But hwere is it in the catholic church? Oh right, it has vanished. Why? Because the catholic church decided to adopt idol worship and statue worship into their dogma. they couldnt keep that commandment after that.the protestants did not count the hebrew first commandment as a commandment because it did not actually command anything. they say the second commandment as containing two seperate commandments, and numbered them thusly.

The Catholic church is Satan's church, Jesus has nothing to do with it. Do your homework. Do some research about the perversion and filth coming out of the Satanic whorehouse known as the Vatican.

People need to be far away from calling Catholic priests 'father' and confessing sins to them, people also need to stop worshiping and praying to the mother of Jesus. It is evil. Burn your rosaries and come away from the Catholic church, it is filled with witchcraft and evil!

The Catholic church is Satan's church, Jesus has nothing to do with it. Do your homework. Do some research about the perversion and filth coming out of the Satanic whorehouse known as the Vatican.

People need to be far away from calling Catholic priests 'father' and confessing sins to them, people also need to stop worshiping and praying to the mother of Jesus. It is evil. Burn your rosaries and come away from the Catholic church, it is filled with witchcraft and evil!

Those priests will drag you right into hell with them.

Quoting: Mark Brander

The Traditional Catholic Church is God's Church.But you are correct, it is currently filled with witchcraft and evil.

This was prophesied by Sister Lucia of the children of Fatima.In her visions she was shown events of the last days.Among the was the corruption of the Church with heresy and false teachings.It was spoken of specifically in the Third Secret of Fatima, which she penned many years ago.

Research it and learn, rather than looking like a fool claiming God's Church is the Church of Satan.

Quoting: Traditional Catholic 1431278

You are not helping anyone come to the true faith with your traditional righteousness.

We know the anti-Christ is going to attack the Church,she is the true faith. We know of the loss of faith,we're in the end times.

Jesus makes it clear in the messages, He abhors condemningTraditionalists and Cafeteria Catholics trying to dividethe Church. Traditionalists have, who can imagine, mocked Pope John Paul II and Pope Benendict. There is one Holy Apostolic Church, the Roman Catholic Church. It's obvious, the Novus Ordo Mass is not as reverent or honoring to God as the Tridentine Mass. The Holy Eucharist is still valid in the N.O. Jesus states He will do anything to save souls even the loss of reverence. Some day, one hopes and I pray there will be no more Novus Ordo Mass.

Another thread about the catholic religion!Mark, it does no good talking to them, they will never see it. They profess to be the Original church, the Bible is all their doing, they couldnt be further from the truth, but they can not be reasoned with. I feel sad thinking about the power given to the vatican. It is not ruled by a pope, but a king that calls himself pope. he sits before an inverted cross, surrounded by idols and gold, everything is steeped in mysticism and ceremony. The catholic religion fails to realize that Jesus is the leader of the true religion. He is still alive, His throne still belongs to Him.The Catholics actually split from the orthodox religion after peter and paul were martyred in rome. They claimed falsely that since those men died in rome, the roman sect held more power than the rest of the church and began making changes to doctrine against the rest of Jesus' church's will. They had the power of the political and military roman empire surrounding them and protecting them, whereas the rest of the curch was out in the midst of unrest and busy defending itself. The catholic church continued making changes, and finally the split of catholocism from the original orthodox religion that Jesus left to Peter was completed, and the catholic church has been a rogue powerhouse ever since.It is not the original church. it claims to be but is not, and none of the followers today will ever look at the grossness of what they do. I am not saying they are condemned people, as I am not to judge the fate of a person's soul, but I imagine they will have some explaining to do on judgement day. Hopefully Jesus will have forgiveness for everyone, but I am hoping that those that have allowed evil to penetrate into religion will have a special place in hell, if there is one.

Quoting: chrissiel123

chrissie, professing her "church of one" is going to explain the history of Catholicism. But, Jesussaid He would never leave His Church in Matthew 16:18-19?

In your "church of one" it's easy. You get to pick theday to go to Church, that is if you go, to keep God's Commandment. Can't give a number, the Protestants have renumbered the Commandments and will object. You've chosen Saturday. You forget Scripture, the reason, God has changed that day to Sunday. We are in the New Covenant.

Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1431202

you are bringing things from other threads into this one, but that is fine with me. i only speak truth to the best of my studies on the topic.

Yes, Jesus said He will never leave His church. I am not arguing with you on that, I am saying that the catholic church is not His. I am saying He left it to Peter, and after Peter's death the roman sect of Jesus' church tore away from its foundations and set itself up as catholocism.and it was the catholics that changed the number of the commandments.

Quoting: chrissiel123

It is Christ's Church He will never leave, you agree. He left the same Church to Peter until Peter died?

And that was it? A "roman sect" came along and no moreChrist's Church....explain?

Another thread about the catholic religion!Mark, it does no good talking to them, they will never see it. They profess to be the Original church, the Bible is all their doing, they couldnt be further from the truth, but they can not be reasoned with. I feel sad thinking about the power given to the vatican. It is not ruled by a pope, but a king that calls himself pope. he sits before an inverted cross, surrounded by idols and gold, everything is steeped in mysticism and ceremony. The catholic religion fails to realize that Jesus is the leader of the true religion. He is still alive, His throne still belongs to Him.The Catholics actually split from the orthodox religion after peter and paul were martyred in rome. They claimed falsely that since those men died in rome, the roman sect held more power than the rest of the church and began making changes to doctrine against the rest of Jesus' church's will. They had the power of the political and military roman empire surrounding them and protecting them, whereas the rest of the curch was out in the midst of unrest and busy defending itself. The catholic church continued making changes, and finally the split of catholocism from the original orthodox religion that Jesus left to Peter was completed, and the catholic church has been a rogue powerhouse ever since.It is not the original church. it claims to be but is not, and none of the followers today will ever look at the grossness of what they do. I am not saying they are condemned people, as I am not to judge the fate of a person's soul, but I imagine they will have some explaining to do on judgement day. Hopefully Jesus will have forgiveness for everyone, but I am hoping that those that have allowed evil to penetrate into religion will have a special place in hell, if there is one.

Quoting: chrissiel123

chrissie, professing her "church of one" is going to explain the history of Catholicism. But, Jesussaid He would never leave His Church in Matthew 16:18-19?

In your "church of one" it's easy. You get to pick theday to go to Church, that is if you go, to keep God's Commandment. Can't give a number, the Protestants have renumbered the Commandments and will object. You've chosen Saturday. You forget Scripture, the reason, God has changed that day to Sunday. We are in the New Covenant.

Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1431202

you are bringing things from other threads into this one, but that is fine with me. i only speak truth to the best of my studies on the topic.

Yes, Jesus said He will never leave His church. I am not arguing with you on that, I am saying that the catholic church is not His. I am saying He left it to Peter, and after Peter's death the roman sect of Jesus' church tore away from its foundations and set itself up as catholocism.and it was the catholics that changed the number of the commandments.

Quoting: chrissiel123

It is Christ's Church He will never leave, you agree. He left the same Church to Peter until Peter died?

And that was it? A "roman sect" came along and no moreChrist's Church....explain?

Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1431202

I already explained, in the quote you pasted. Christ proclaimed that He would build His CONGREGATION - or gathering (not church) upon Peter. orthodox was the result, with many sects in many areas. It was the roman sect that began seperating herself by instituting changes the rest of Jesus congregation wanted no part of, but the roman sect played bully, because peter and paul were martyred in rome so they felt that gave their sect the greatest power. all explained in my notes above.

The Catholic church is Satan's church, Jesus has nothing to do with it. Do your homework. Do some research about the perversion and filth coming out of the Satanic whorehouse known as the Vatican.

People need to be far away from calling Catholic priests 'father' and confessing sins to them, people also need to stop worshiping and praying to the mother of Jesus. It is evil. Burn your rosaries and come away from the Catholic church, it is filled with witchcraft and evil!

Those priests will drag you right into hell with them.

Quoting: Mark Brander

The Traditional Catholic Church is God's Church.But you are correct, it is currently filled with witchcraft and evil.

This was prophesied by Sister Lucia of the children of Fatima.In her visions she was shown events of the last days.Among the was the corruption of the Church with heresy and false teachings.It was spoken of specifically in the Third Secret of Fatima, which she penned many years ago.

Research it and learn, rather than looking like a fool claiming God's Church is the Church of Satan.

Quoting: Traditional Catholic 1431278

you are the one who should research

the catholic church has NEVER been "God's church"

the word "church" isn't even the correct word

it is ECCLESIA or called out ones

Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1428324

----as usual it's what's YOU THINK YOU KNOWthat's 100% WRONG.wake up and read an UNCORRUPT BIBLE like the douay rheims.

chrissie, professing her "church of one" is going to explain the history of Catholicism. But, Jesussaid He would never leave His Church in Matthew 16:18-19?

In your "church of one" it's easy. You get to pick theday to go to Church, that is if you go, to keep God's Commandment. Can't give a number, the Protestants have renumbered the Commandments and will object. You've chosen Saturday. You forget Scripture, the reason, God has changed that day to Sunday. We are in the New Covenant.

Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1431202

you are bringing things from other threads into this one, but that is fine with me. i only speak truth to the best of my studies on the topic.

Yes, Jesus said He will never leave His church. I am not arguing with you on that, I am saying that the catholic church is not His. I am saying He left it to Peter, and after Peter's death the roman sect of Jesus' church tore away from its foundations and set itself up as catholocism.and it was the catholics that changed the number of the commandments.

Quoting: chrissiel123

It is Christ's Church He will never leave, you agree. He left the same Church to Peter until Peter died?

And that was it? A "roman sect" came along and no moreChrist's Church....explain?

Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1431202

I already explained, in the quote you pasted. Christ proclaimed that He would build His CONGREGATION - or gathering (not church) upon Peter. orthodox was the result, with many sects in many areas. It was the roman sect that began seperating herself by instituting changes the rest of Jesus congregation wanted no part of, but the roman sect played bully, because peter and paul were martyred in rome so they felt that gave their sect the greatest power. all explained in my notes above.

Quoting: chrissiel123

Jesus said "Church" chrissie, not plural, Churches. Wrongo on CONGREGATION, Jesus said Church. "Orthodox was theresult", I thought you said all was fine until Peter died?Peter established the Orthodox Church? History doesn'tsay that, only you. Now who is this "roman sect", I keepasking? The "roman sect" crucified Peter and Paul?

I kept thinking you call the RCC, the "roman sect", well ifthat's true, the "roman sect" was around when Peter died.Did they really kill Paul and Peter? That's a stretch,actually all made up.

"My notes", how do you confirm history, with your personalopinion chrissie? When did Protestantism come along? Ifyou know that date why aren't you Orthodox?

you are bringing things from other threads into this one, but that is fine with me. i only speak truth to the best of my studies on the topic.

Yes, Jesus said He will never leave His church. I am not arguing with you on that, I am saying that the catholic church is not His. I am saying He left it to Peter, and after Peter's death the roman sect of Jesus' church tore away from its foundations and set itself up as catholocism.and it was the catholics that changed the number of the commandments.

Quoting: chrissiel123

It is Christ's Church He will never leave, you agree. He left the same Church to Peter until Peter died?

And that was it? A "roman sect" came along and no moreChrist's Church....explain?

Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1431202

I already explained, in the quote you pasted. Christ proclaimed that He would build His CONGREGATION - or gathering (not church) upon Peter. orthodox was the result, with many sects in many areas. It was the roman sect that began seperating herself by instituting changes the rest of Jesus congregation wanted no part of, but the roman sect played bully, because peter and paul were martyred in rome so they felt that gave their sect the greatest power. all explained in my notes above.

Quoting: chrissiel123

Jesus said "Church" chrissie, not plural, Churches. Wrongo on CONGREGATION, Jesus said Church. "Orthodox was theresult", I thought you said all was fine until Peter died?Peter established the Orthodox Church? History doesn'tsay that, only you. Now who is this "roman sect", I keepasking? The "roman sect" crucified Peter and Paul?

I kept thinking you call the RCC, the "roman sect", well ifthat's true, the "roman sect" was around when Peter died.Did they really kill Paul and Peter? That's a stretch,actually all made up.

"My notes", how do you confirm history, with your personalopinion chrissie? When did Protestantism come along? Ifyou know that date why aren't you Orthodox?

Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1431202

When did Protestantism come along? Ifyou know that date why aren't you Orthodoxyou dont and could never understand what I am.

Jesus said "Church" chrissie, not plural, Churches. Wrongo on CONGREGATION, Jesus said Church.Jesus’ statement to Peter, “I’ll build my ecclesia on this rock,” ecclesia means gather, congregate. not church

Peter established the Orthodox Churchthe disciples founded the orthodox church

The Orthodox Church was founded on the Day of Holy Pentecost in Jerusalem in 33 AD, fifty days after the Holy Resurrection of Jesus Christ our true God. It has preserved the original teachings of Jesus Christ and His Apostles form that time until the present. The first major Bishops of the Church (known as Patriarchs) have remained Orthodox up to the present. They are the Patriarchs of Jerusalem, Antioch, Alexandria, and Constantinople. Later onwards other Patriarchs also began to develop within the Orthodox Church: Russia, Romania, Serbia, Bulgaria, and Albanian.

Was the Roman Catholic Church a part of the Orthodox Church?Yes, the Roman Catholic Church was a part of the Orthodox Church, believing and teaching the same doctrines and Sacred Tradition, until 1054. It was the Roman Catholic Church that broke away from the Orthodox Church. In that year the Patriarch of Rome, or the bishop of Rome, also known as the Pope of Rome broke away from the original Church by making unacceptable claims of authority over the entire Christian Church. Since then, the Roman Catholic Church has added new teachings, which the ancient Christian Church above rejects. One of these is the Doctrine of the Infallibility of the Pope. Not only this doctrine but also other matters of the faith have developed within the Roman Catholic Church which has since has separated both these Churches.

so there you have it - one true church, from wich the roman sect left. for trying to change the tue teachings and doctrines of the church that Jesus charged His apostles for creating!!!!!!

i am sure the catholic church has taught you how to defend that argument though.

The Catholic church is Satan's church, Jesus has nothing to do with it. Do your homework. Do some research about the perversion and filth coming out of the Satanic whorehouse known as the Vatican.

People need to be far away from calling Catholic priests 'father' and confessing sins to them, people also need to stop worshiping and praying to the mother of Jesus. It is evil. Burn your rosaries and come away from the Catholic church, it is filled with witchcraft and evil!

Those priests will drag you right into hell with them.

Quoting: Mark Brander

The Traditional Catholic Church is God's Church.But you are correct, it is currently filled with witchcraft and evil.

This was prophesied by Sister Lucia of the children of Fatima.In her visions she was shown events of the last days.Among the was the corruption of the Church with heresy and false teachings.It was spoken of specifically in the Third Secret of Fatima, which she penned many years ago.

Research it and learn, rather than looking like a fool claiming God's Church is the Church of Satan.

Quoting: Traditional Catholic 1431278

you are the one who should research

the catholic church has NEVER been "God's church"

the word "church" isn't even the correct word

it is ECCLESIA or called out ones

Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1428324

----as usual it's what's YOU THINK YOU KNOWthat's 100% WRONG.wake up and read an UNCORRUPT BIBLE like the douay rheims.

Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1169966

kindly go to the word in the concordance

here is what you will find

G1577Ekklesia

1) a gathering of citizens called out from their homes into some public place, an assembly

a) an assembly of the people convened at the public place of the council for the purpose of deliberating

b) the assembly of the Israelites

c) any gathering or throng of men assembled by chance, tumultuously

d) in a Christian sense

1) an assembly of Christians gathered for worship in a religious meeting

2) a company of Christian, or of those who, hoping for eternal salvation through Jesus Christ, observe their own religious rites, hold their own religious meetings, and manage their own affairs, according to regulations prescribed for the body for order's sake

3) those who anywhere, in a city, village, constitute such a company and are united into one body

4) the whole body of Christians scattered throughout the earth

5) the assembly of faithful Christians already dead and received into heaven

Catholicism is a loose-loose endeavor. For starters, the confession crap is crap. You are never in a state of grace for long (fail) and they use this perpetual guilt trip (confession) to keep the ruse of the FAIL up.

The Catholic church is Satan's church, Jesus has nothing to do with it. Do your homework. Do some research about the perversion and filth coming out of the Satanic whorehouse known as the Vatican.

People need to be far away from calling Catholic priests 'father' and confessing sins to them, people also need to stop worshiping and praying to the mother of Jesus. It is evil. Burn your rosaries and come away from the Catholic church, it is filled with witchcraft and evil!

Those priests will drag you right into hell with them.

Quoting: Mark Brander

DUMBASS!!! Wake the fug up...it's da JOOS that infiltrated the church...as was done with most all governments...Truth!

chrissie, professing her "church of one" is going to explain the history of Catholicism. But, Jesussaid He would never leave His Church in Matthew 16:18-19?

In your "church of one" it's easy. You get to pick theday to go to Church, that is if you go, to keep God's Commandment. Can't give a number, the Protestants have renumbered the Commandments and will object. You've chosen Saturday. You forget Scripture, the reason, God has changed that day to Sunday. We are in the New Covenant.

Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1431202

protestants changed them, is that what you have been taught?? here they are, the Hebrew catholic and protestant commandments, campared, can you spot the differences????...

...protestant and hebrews both kept the second commandment as it was. But hwere is it in the catholic church? Oh right, it has vanished. Why? Because the catholic church decided to adopt idol worship and statue worship into their dogma. they couldnt keep that commandment after that.the protestants did not count the hebrew first commandment as a commandment because it did not actually command anything. they say the second commandment as containing two seperate commandments, and numbered them thusly.

Let me ask you chrissie, you sound pretty happy about agreeing with the Hebrew, to come against Catholicism, why do you not follow the Jewish belief in a place of purgation after death, Purgatory?

+ + +

The Abbreviation of the Ten Commandments

For a couple of reasons, Christians have historically aided memorization of the Decalogue by using an abbreviation of the commandments. Thus the <Catechism of the Catholic Church> notes:

Catechism paragraph 2065 Ever since St. Augustine, the Ten Commandments have occupied a predominant place in the catechesis of baptismal candidates and the faithful. In the fifteenth century, the custom arose of expressing the commandments of the Decalogue in rhymed formulae, easy to memorize and in positive form. They are still in use today. The catechisms of the Church have often expounded Christian morality by following the order of the Ten Commandments.

By nature, an abbreviation must leave out certain material, and since the Church has most typically used the Augustinian division of the Decalogue, the section of the Decalogue which says:

"You shall have no other gods before me. You shall not make for yourself a graven image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth; you shall not bow down to them or serve them; for I the LORD your God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children to the third and the fourth generation of those who hate me, but showing steadfast love to thousands of those who love me and keep my commandments.

Gets abbreviated to:

"You shall have no other gods before me.

This abbreviation has led anti-Catholics to virtually explode with rage, declaring that the Catholic Church has "hidden" or "removed" from the Ten Commandments the prohibition of idolatry. This assertion stems from two sources: (1) their misinterpretation of the idolatry command as a prohibition of all religious images and (2) their intense hostility toward the Catholic Church.

However, the falsity of the charge can easily be shown by pointing out that:

1. Luther himself abbreviated the no false gods/no idols commandment this way.

2. Jews—who today are even more opposed to religious representations than Protestants—abbreviate this command in this way.

3. Protestants themselves, even those who separate the two parts of the command, abbreviate them for catechetical purposes, showing that catechetical abbreviation is perfectly fine in principle and is in no way an attempt to "hide" or "remove" any of the Ten Commandments.

4. Teaching the faith to others, especially children, <requires> an abbreviation of the Ten Commandments for easy memorization since they are otherwise a very long block of material to memorize, longer than any of the commonly recited creeds. It would take a <great> deal of effort to memorize the Ten Commandments in unabbreviated form. And while God certainly wants each Christian to <know> the Ten Commandments, he certainly does not expect every Christian (including the billions of illiterate ones in world history) to <memorize> them in unabbreviated form. That is <not> an essential Christian duty, and thus Luther, the Jews, and Protestants in general have used abbreviations to aid in memorization.

5. Another reason—besides their sheer length—for abbreviating the Ten Commandments is that they contain a lot of historical material that is simply not directly applicable to modern Gentile Christians. Thus God tells the ancient, Jewish audience that he is the Lord, "who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage" (Ex. 20:2), that they must honor (lit., "glorify") their parents so "that your days may be long in the land which the LORD your God gives you" (Ex. 20:12), and that "You shall remember that you were a servant in the land of Egypt, and the LORD your God brought you out thence with a mighty hand and an outstretched arm; therefore the LORD your God commanded you to keep the Sabbath day" (Deut. 5:15). Besides these, there are also numerous cultural-historical references which no longer apply to the overwhelming majority of Christians today—such as having male and female slaves, cities with gates and walls, oxen, asses, and fields—while they did apply to what might be called "the Hebrew middle class" in ancient Palestine.

6. Finally, the fact the Church is not trying to "hide" or "remove" any of Ten Commandments by abbreviating them in the memorization formula is indicated by the fact that <everywhere else> the Church uses them in <unabbreviated> form. They are there, in all their unabbreviated glory, in every Catholic Bible, including the Vulgate, which was used for a thousand years before the Protestant Reformation, as well as in all the vernacular translations of Scripture before and since the appearance of Protestantism. They are read out unabbreviated during the Scripture readings at Mass (and always have been). And, finally, when catechetics is done and people are taught the Ten Commandments, they are always read and shown the unabbreviated form before being asked to learn the memorization formula.In short, there is simply no basis whatsoever to the charge that the Church is trying to "hide" or "remove" any of the Ten Commandments. Rather, the Church is trying to make them easier to memorize and thus help people learn and internalize them better. One may well ask in which communion an average, catechized person is more likely to know the Ten Commandments by heart. Is a catechized Catholic more likely to be able to name the commandments in order, or is a average, catechized Protestant more likely to be able to name them in order? Which communion <really> stresses the Ten Commandments more in its catechesis? The group that says it is a mortal sin to violate them or the group that is more prone to say, "That is just Old Testament. Today we have grace"?

chrissie, professing her "church of one" is going to explain the history of Catholicism. But, Jesussaid He would never leave His Church in Matthew 16:18-19?

In your "church of one" it's easy. You get to pick theday to go to Church, that is if you go, to keep God's Commandment. Can't give a number, the Protestants have renumbered the Commandments and will object. You've chosen Saturday. You forget Scripture, the reason, God has changed that day to Sunday. We are in the New Covenant.

Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1431202

protestants changed them, is that what you have been taught?? here they are, the Hebrew catholic and protestant commandments, campared, can you spot the differences????...

...protestant and hebrews both kept the second commandment as it was. But hwere is it in the catholic church? Oh right, it has vanished. Why? Because the catholic church decided to adopt idol worship and statue worship into their dogma. they couldnt keep that commandment after that.the protestants did not count the hebrew first commandment as a commandment because it did not actually command anything. they say the second commandment as containing two seperate commandments, and numbered them thusly.

Let me ask you chrissie, you sound pretty happy about agreeing with the Hebrew, to come against Catholicism, why do you not follow the Jewish belief in a place of purgation after death, Purgatory?

+ + +

The Abbreviation of the Ten Commandments

For a couple of reasons, Christians have historically aided memorization of the Decalogue by using an abbreviation of the commandments. Thus the <Catechism of the Catholic Church> notes:

Catechism paragraph 2065 Ever since St. Augustine, the Ten Commandments have occupied a predominant place in the catechesis of baptismal candidates and the faithful. In the fifteenth century, the custom arose of expressing the commandments of the Decalogue in rhymed formulae, easy to memorize and in positive form. They are still in use today. The catechisms of the Church have often expounded Christian morality by following the order of the Ten Commandments.

By nature, an abbreviation must leave out certain material, and since the Church has most typically used the Augustinian division of the Decalogue, the section of the Decalogue which says:

"You shall have no other gods before me. You shall not make for yourself a graven image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth; you shall not bow down to them or serve them; for I the LORD your God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children to the third and the fourth generation of those who hate me, but showing steadfast love to thousands of those who love me and keep my commandments.

Gets abbreviated to:

"You shall have no other gods before me.

This abbreviation has led anti-Catholics to virtually explode with rage, declaring that the Catholic Church has "hidden" or "removed" from the Ten Commandments the prohibition of idolatry. This assertion stems from two sources: (1) their misinterpretation of the idolatry command as a prohibition of all religious images and (2) their intense hostility toward the Catholic Church.

However, the falsity of the charge can easily be shown by pointing out that:

1. Luther himself abbreviated the no false gods/no idols commandment this way.

2. Jews—who today are even more opposed to religious representations than Protestants—abbreviate this command in this way.

3. Protestants themselves, even those who separate the two parts of the command, abbreviate them for catechetical purposes, showing that catechetical abbreviation is perfectly fine in principle and is in no way an attempt to "hide" or "remove" any of the Ten Commandments.

4. Teaching the faith to others, especially children, <requires> an abbreviation of the Ten Commandments for easy memorization since they are otherwise a very long block of material to memorize, longer than any of the commonly recited creeds. It would take a <great> deal of effort to memorize the Ten Commandments in unabbreviated form. And while God certainly wants each Christian to <know> the Ten Commandments, he certainly does not expect every Christian (including the billions of illiterate ones in world history) to <memorize> them in unabbreviated form. That is <not> an essential Christian duty, and thus Luther, the Jews, and Protestants in general have used abbreviations to aid in memorization.

5. Another reason—besides their sheer length—for abbreviating the Ten Commandments is that they contain a lot of historical material that is simply not directly applicable to modern Gentile Christians. Thus God tells the ancient, Jewish audience that he is the Lord, "who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage" (Ex. 20:2), that they must honor (lit., "glorify") their parents so "that your days may be long in the land which the LORD your God gives you" (Ex. 20:12), and that "You shall remember that you were a servant in the land of Egypt, and the LORD your God brought you out thence with a mighty hand and an outstretched arm; therefore the LORD your God commanded you to keep the Sabbath day" (Deut. 5:15). Besides these, there are also numerous cultural-historical references which no longer apply to the overwhelming majority of Christians today—such as having male and female slaves, cities with gates and walls, oxen, asses, and fields—while they did apply to what might be called "the Hebrew middle class" in ancient Palestine.

6. Finally, the fact the Church is not trying to "hide" or "remove" any of Ten Commandments by abbreviating them in the memorization formula is indicated by the fact that <everywhere else> the Church uses them in <unabbreviated> form. They are there, in all their unabbreviated glory, in every Catholic Bible, including the Vulgate, which was used for a thousand years before the Protestant Reformation, as well as in all the vernacular translations of Scripture before and since the appearance of Protestantism. They are read out unabbreviated during the Scripture readings at Mass (and always have been). And, finally, when catechetics is done and people are taught the Ten Commandments, they are always read and shown the unabbreviated form before being asked to learn the memorization formula.In short, there is simply no basis whatsoever to the charge that the Church is trying to "hide" or "remove" any of the Ten Commandments. Rather, the Church is trying to make them easier to memorize and thus help people learn and internalize them better. One may well ask in which communion an average, catechized person is more likely to know the Ten Commandments by heart. Is a catechized Catholic more likely to be able to name the commandments in order, or is a average, catechized Protestant more likely to be able to name them in order? Which communion <really> stresses the Ten Commandments more in its catechesis? The group that says it is a mortal sin to violate them or the group that is more prone to say, "That is just Old Testament. Today we have grace"?

Copyright (c) 1996 by James Akin. All Rights Reserved

Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1431202

so if you still claim to follow that commandment, why do you worship idols and statues. why are your churches filled with graven images, why do you have likenesses of people in heaven and why do you pray to them and worship them?

The Catholic church is Satan's church, Jesus has nothing to do with it. Do your homework. Do some research about the perversion and filth coming out of the Satanic whorehouse known as the Vatican.

People need to be far away from calling Catholic priests 'father' and confessing sins to them, people also need to stop worshiping and praying to the mother of Jesus. It is evil. Burn your rosaries and come away from the Catholic church, it is filled with witchcraft and evil!

Those priests will drag you right into hell with them.

Quoting: Mark Brander

Church and state are joined at the hip. One is the piped piper and the other is the executioner. Don't trust anyone.

chrissie, professing her "church of one" is going to explain the history of Catholicism. But, Jesussaid He would never leave His Church in Matthew 16:18-19?

In your "church of one" it's easy. You get to pick theday to go to Church, that is if you go, to keep God's Commandment. Can't give a number, the Protestants have renumbered the Commandments and will object. You've chosen Saturday. You forget Scripture, the reason, God has changed that day to Sunday. We are in the New Covenant.

Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1431202

protestants changed them, is that what you have been taught?? here they are, the Hebrew catholic and protestant commandments, campared, can you spot the differences????...

...protestant and hebrews both kept the second commandment as it was. But hwere is it in the catholic church? Oh right, it has vanished. Why? Because the catholic church decided to adopt idol worship and statue worship into their dogma. they couldnt keep that commandment after that.the protestants did not count the hebrew first commandment as a commandment because it did not actually command anything. they say the second commandment as containing two seperate commandments, and numbered them thusly.

Let me ask you chrissie, you sound pretty happy about agreeing with the Hebrew, to come against Catholicism, why do you not follow the Jewish belief in a place of purgation after death, Purgatory?

+ + +

The Abbreviation of the Ten Commandments

For a couple of reasons, Christians have historically aided memorization of the Decalogue by using an abbreviation of the commandments. Thus the <Catechism of the Catholic Church> notes:

Catechism paragraph 2065 Ever since St. Augustine, the Ten Commandments have occupied a predominant place in the catechesis of baptismal candidates and the faithful. In the fifteenth century, the custom arose of expressing the commandments of the Decalogue in rhymed formulae, easy to memorize and in positive form. They are still in use today. The catechisms of the Church have often expounded Christian morality by following the order of the Ten Commandments.

By nature, an abbreviation must leave out certain material, and since the Church has most typically used the Augustinian division of the Decalogue, the section of the Decalogue which says:

"You shall have no other gods before me. You shall not make for yourself a graven image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth; you shall not bow down to them or serve them; for I the LORD your God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children to the third and the fourth generation of those who hate me, but showing steadfast love to thousands of those who love me and keep my commandments.

Gets abbreviated to:

"You shall have no other gods before me.

This abbreviation has led anti-Catholics to virtually explode with rage, declaring that the Catholic Church has "hidden" or "removed" from the Ten Commandments the prohibition of idolatry. This assertion stems from two sources: (1) their misinterpretation of the idolatry command as a prohibition of all religious images and (2) their intense hostility toward the Catholic Church.

However, the falsity of the charge can easily be shown by pointing out that:

1. Luther himself abbreviated the no false gods/no idols commandment this way.

2. Jews—who today are even more opposed to religious representations than Protestants—abbreviate this command in this way.

3. Protestants themselves, even those who separate the two parts of the command, abbreviate them for catechetical purposes, showing that catechetical abbreviation is perfectly fine in principle and is in no way an attempt to "hide" or "remove" any of the Ten Commandments.

4. Teaching the faith to others, especially children, <requires> an abbreviation of the Ten Commandments for easy memorization since they are otherwise a very long block of material to memorize, longer than any of the commonly recited creeds. It would take a <great> deal of effort to memorize the Ten Commandments in unabbreviated form. And while God certainly wants each Christian to <know> the Ten Commandments, he certainly does not expect every Christian (including the billions of illiterate ones in world history) to <memorize> them in unabbreviated form. That is <not> an essential Christian duty, and thus Luther, the Jews, and Protestants in general have used abbreviations to aid in memorization.

5. Another reason—besides their sheer length—for abbreviating the Ten Commandments is that they contain a lot of historical material that is simply not directly applicable to modern Gentile Christians. Thus God tells the ancient, Jewish audience that he is the Lord, "who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage" (Ex. 20:2), that they must honor (lit., "glorify") their parents so "that your days may be long in the land which the LORD your God gives you" (Ex. 20:12), and that "You shall remember that you were a servant in the land of Egypt, and the LORD your God brought you out thence with a mighty hand and an outstretched arm; therefore the LORD your God commanded you to keep the Sabbath day" (Deut. 5:15). Besides these, there are also numerous cultural-historical references which no longer apply to the overwhelming majority of Christians today—such as having male and female slaves, cities with gates and walls, oxen, asses, and fields—while they did apply to what might be called "the Hebrew middle class" in ancient Palestine.

6. Finally, the fact the Church is not trying to "hide" or "remove" any of Ten Commandments by abbreviating them in the memorization formula is indicated by the fact that <everywhere else> the Church uses them in <unabbreviated> form. They are there, in all their unabbreviated glory, in every Catholic Bible, including the Vulgate, which was used for a thousand years before the Protestant Reformation, as well as in all the vernacular translations of Scripture before and since the appearance of Protestantism. They are read out unabbreviated during the Scripture readings at Mass (and always have been). And, finally, when catechetics is done and people are taught the Ten Commandments, they are always read and shown the unabbreviated form before being asked to learn the memorization formula.In short, there is simply no basis whatsoever to the charge that the Church is trying to "hide" or "remove" any of the Ten Commandments. Rather, the Church is trying to make them easier to memorize and thus help people learn and internalize them better. One may well ask in which communion an average, catechized person is more likely to know the Ten Commandments by heart. Is a catechized Catholic more likely to be able to name the commandments in order, or is a average, catechized Protestant more likely to be able to name them in order? Which communion <really> stresses the Ten Commandments more in its catechesis? The group that says it is a mortal sin to violate them or the group that is more prone to say, "That is just Old Testament. Today we have grace"?

Copyright (c) 1996 by James Akin. All Rights Reserved

Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1431202

so if you still claim to follow that commandment, why do you worship idols and statues. why are your churches filled with graven images, why do you have likenesses of people in heaven and why do you pray to them and worship them?

Quoting: chrissiel123

Thanks for asking.

The image of God and His mother and the saints cannotbe "graven images." That's another misinterpretation ofScripture by those who think they can interpret Scripturefor themselves.

It is simple, statues are reminders of who we love likea photograph. I am reminded of Jesus, when I see a statue of the image of the Sacred Heart. The Sacred Heart Statue makes me think of His heart pierced for love of us.

Reminders, that's all, no worship. Catholics worshipGod not a statue.

I have seen Protestant images of Jesus, in your Bibles and on the Net, you best reply to that friend.

protestants changed them, is that what you have been taught?? here they are, the Hebrew catholic and protestant commandments, campared, can you spot the differences????...

...protestant and hebrews both kept the second commandment as it was. But hwere is it in the catholic church? Oh right, it has vanished. Why? Because the catholic church decided to adopt idol worship and statue worship into their dogma. they couldnt keep that commandment after that.the protestants did not count the hebrew first commandment as a commandment because it did not actually command anything. they say the second commandment as containing two seperate commandments, and numbered them thusly.

Let me ask you chrissie, you sound pretty happy about agreeing with the Hebrew, to come against Catholicism, why do you not follow the Jewish belief in a place of purgation after death, Purgatory?

+ + +

The Abbreviation of the Ten Commandments

For a couple of reasons, Christians have historically aided memorization of the Decalogue by using an abbreviation of the commandments. Thus the <Catechism of the Catholic Church> notes:

Catechism paragraph 2065 Ever since St. Augustine, the Ten Commandments have occupied a predominant place in the catechesis of baptismal candidates and the faithful. In the fifteenth century, the custom arose of expressing the commandments of the Decalogue in rhymed formulae, easy to memorize and in positive form. They are still in use today. The catechisms of the Church have often expounded Christian morality by following the order of the Ten Commandments.

By nature, an abbreviation must leave out certain material, and since the Church has most typically used the Augustinian division of the Decalogue, the section of the Decalogue which says:

"You shall have no other gods before me. You shall not make for yourself a graven image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth; you shall not bow down to them or serve them; for I the LORD your God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children to the third and the fourth generation of those who hate me, but showing steadfast love to thousands of those who love me and keep my commandments.

Gets abbreviated to:

"You shall have no other gods before me.

This abbreviation has led anti-Catholics to virtually explode with rage, declaring that the Catholic Church has "hidden" or "removed" from the Ten Commandments the prohibition of idolatry. This assertion stems from two sources: (1) their misinterpretation of the idolatry command as a prohibition of all religious images and (2) their intense hostility toward the Catholic Church.

However, the falsity of the charge can easily be shown by pointing out that:

1. Luther himself abbreviated the no false gods/no idols commandment this way.

2. Jews—who today are even more opposed to religious representations than Protestants—abbreviate this command in this way.

3. Protestants themselves, even those who separate the two parts of the command, abbreviate them for catechetical purposes, showing that catechetical abbreviation is perfectly fine in principle and is in no way an attempt to "hide" or "remove" any of the Ten Commandments.

4. Teaching the faith to others, especially children, <requires> an abbreviation of the Ten Commandments for easy memorization since they are otherwise a very long block of material to memorize, longer than any of the commonly recited creeds. It would take a <great> deal of effort to memorize the Ten Commandments in unabbreviated form. And while God certainly wants each Christian to <know> the Ten Commandments, he certainly does not expect every Christian (including the billions of illiterate ones in world history) to <memorize> them in unabbreviated form. That is <not> an essential Christian duty, and thus Luther, the Jews, and Protestants in general have used abbreviations to aid in memorization.

5. Another reason—besides their sheer length—for abbreviating the Ten Commandments is that they contain a lot of historical material that is simply not directly applicable to modern Gentile Christians. Thus God tells the ancient, Jewish audience that he is the Lord, "who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage" (Ex. 20:2), that they must honor (lit., "glorify") their parents so "that your days may be long in the land which the LORD your God gives you" (Ex. 20:12), and that "You shall remember that you were a servant in the land of Egypt, and the LORD your God brought you out thence with a mighty hand and an outstretched arm; therefore the LORD your God commanded you to keep the Sabbath day" (Deut. 5:15). Besides these, there are also numerous cultural-historical references which no longer apply to the overwhelming majority of Christians today—such as having male and female slaves, cities with gates and walls, oxen, asses, and fields—while they did apply to what might be called "the Hebrew middle class" in ancient Palestine.

6. Finally, the fact the Church is not trying to "hide" or "remove" any of Ten Commandments by abbreviating them in the memorization formula is indicated by the fact that <everywhere else> the Church uses them in <unabbreviated> form. They are there, in all their unabbreviated glory, in every Catholic Bible, including the Vulgate, which was used for a thousand years before the Protestant Reformation, as well as in all the vernacular translations of Scripture before and since the appearance of Protestantism. They are read out unabbreviated during the Scripture readings at Mass (and always have been). And, finally, when catechetics is done and people are taught the Ten Commandments, they are always read and shown the unabbreviated form before being asked to learn the memorization formula.In short, there is simply no basis whatsoever to the charge that the Church is trying to "hide" or "remove" any of the Ten Commandments. Rather, the Church is trying to make them easier to memorize and thus help people learn and internalize them better. One may well ask in which communion an average, catechized person is more likely to know the Ten Commandments by heart. Is a catechized Catholic more likely to be able to name the commandments in order, or is a average, catechized Protestant more likely to be able to name them in order? Which communion <really> stresses the Ten Commandments more in its catechesis? The group that says it is a mortal sin to violate them or the group that is more prone to say, "That is just Old Testament. Today we have grace"?

Copyright (c) 1996 by James Akin. All Rights Reserved

Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1431202

so if you still claim to follow that commandment, why do you worship idols and statues. why are your churches filled with graven images, why do you have likenesses of people in heaven and why do you pray to them and worship them?

Quoting: chrissiel123

Thanks for asking.

The image of God and His mother and the saints cannotbe "graven images." That's another misinterpretation ofScripture by those who think they can interpret Scripturefor themselves.

It is simple, statues are reminders of who we love likea photograph. I am reminded of Jesus, when I see a statue of the image of the Sacred Heart. The Sacred Heart Statue makes me think of His heart pierced for love of us.

Reminders, that's all, no worship. Catholics worshipGod not a statue.

I have seen Protestant images of Jesus, in your Bibles and on the Net, you best reply to that friend.

take care chrissie,

Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1431202

I am not protestant, and my home contains no likenesses of anyone that is in heaven, as commanded by GOD HIMSELF in the ten commandments.

and while the erse you quoted about confession does state that the disciples are allowed to forgive people, it says nothing about the need for people to either individually tell them what each and every sin is in order to be forgiven or that pennance is required for said forgiveness. And in fact we are told often in the Bible tht our sins are forgiven just by praying for it. We need only repent in prayer to God. And there are no Hail Mary's ni the Bible because one: she is NOT the path to forgiveness and should not be prayed to and two: because Jesus specifically told His disciples that e DETESTED repetitive prayers.but you have answers for that too.Anyway, like I said, not trying to argue among someone that is trying to follow God, just trying to understand how billions of people can follow such a model that goes against what the Bible taught. And disputing claims that the catholic church is the original church ordained by Jesus, as I have already shown that it is not. It is a rebellion sub-church to the original church much in the way protestantism is from catholic.

The image of God and His mother and the saints cannotbe "graven images." That's another misinterpretation ofScripture by those who think they can interpret Scripturefor themselves.

It is simple, statues are reminders of who we love likea photograph. I am reminded of Jesus, when I see a statue of the image of the Sacred Heart. The Sacred Heart Statue makes me think of His heart pierced for love of us.

Reminders, that's all, no worship. Catholics worshipGod not a statue.I have seen Protestant images of Jesus, in your Bibles and on the Net, you best reply to that friend.

take care chrissie,

Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1431202

when you pray to mary, have adorned statutes of her in your home, bow before her statue - that is worhip. idol worship as the recipient is not God Himself but a man made statue of someone a man has deemed to be a saint.