I know Will. I haven't embraced the gender identity thing. I'm not even sure that gender identity is part of Vics question.

I can appreciate folks such as yourself, not wanting to make waves, going along to get along. I'm sure there are upsides for that. And, you seem to be able to get along with more people. I'm glad it works for you.

I'm not wired the same way though. For me some things have boundaries, you know?

On this topic for example there are girls and there are boys. At first they wanted to add two more columns so we would have girls, boys, girls that want to be boys, and boys that want to be girls. And before you know it there are now 51 columns of gender identities. [I have figure out how it came out to an odd number either] That's way too much for me to wrap my head around or care about.

I think Vic is just talking about feminism on this post. I don't want to try and control what other people think and feel. It doesn't matter to me who they care about as long as they don't infringe on other people's rights. That's my line in the sand. Where you draw your line is totally up to you. I can't comprehend 51 genders so I don't try. That's not on my list of need to know. :)

Can't say I'd even find it desirable. A world where everything was as it "should" be would require that a) we all agree on the "should be"s and b) we all act like automatons. 'Twould be pretty **** boring. JMHO

What makes you so certain that your proposed definition the correct one?

To me, modern feminism looks like women demanding, and being given, things they're not willing or able to earn themselves. Hmm, that sounds familiar ... I guess some things never change.

Here in Canada our Prime Minister is a self described feminist, so he decided to make his cabinet 50% women.

So, what's wrong with that? It is the current year after all.

Well, only 25% of the people elected were women, what our PM did wasn't true gender equality, it was gender favoritism. His decision wasn't based solely on merit, as equality would demand. Due to the demographic breakdown of those elected, he almost certainly passed over more qualified men to hand positions to less qualified women simply because they're women. That's not equality, that's just another version of sexism.

As a result, our country has to struggle along with people in charge who were not put there because they're the best, most qualified people available for the job, but because of a consideration that's supposed to be irrelevant according to your definition of what feminism should be.

So, regardless of what people may think feminism is or want it to be, in practice it's just a polite term for sexism.

Wow! This is one of the rare times when I actually agreed with one of your statements. I have witnessed considerable progress in this regard (removing expectations about gender roles) during my long adult life. I have seen many more female engineers and executives in the corporation where I worked over the years. And I have also met many more male nurses during my visits to hospitals (which became more frequent as I aged). But I think that expecting females to compete against males in sports competition is going a bit too far as any rational person would surely acknowledge the physical superiority of the male gender when you superimpose the bell curves of strength and endurance of the two genders.

I just call it equality. From my observation, removing expectations of gender roles save physical differences is what it is, not what it ought. The equestrian community has made such strides (pardon the pun) in that more women than men own horses. Plus, there are more male nurses as GoBlue wrote.

I have more testosterone than most women and love bodybuilding, but I accept my physical limits and won’t dope myself up in the name of what ought.

Some languages, my native Russian included, are rife with gender roles. Needless to put, more men than women serve in the Russian military; yet, if you win a courage award, what you’re literally getting is a manhood award. Another is-ought problem that harms more men in the long run and contributed to Russia’s gender imbalance: there are around 87 men per 100 women. 120 years ago, that ratio was almost equal. The language and society will have to evolve for a recovery to happen.

I've seen a lot of man bashing, calling women "superior", which is not equality, it's ridiculous. People are who they are and should not be told that you can't do this or that because "people will call you gay" when you venture out of activities considered "gender appropriate". Even boys who want to grow their hair out, being told they look like a girl and need a haircut, or being told that a boy cannot have a baby doll cause it'll turn him gay. So, we can nuture maternal instinct but not paternal instinct. The labels need to stop and each person be able to love and live life as themselves. Society as a whole... Grow up y'all.

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