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Winch or hoist

06-28-2014, 07:35 PM

I want to lift from the beam in my shop but do not want the lifting device attached to the beam for clearance reasons .I want to attach the lifting device to the post and run the cable up and along the beam (see pic). The question is do I use a hoist or a winch. If I understand correctly a winch is designed to pull a load horizontally and a hoist is designed to lift vertically. The problem I am trying to avoid is some hoist manuals indicate you must have your hoist directly overhead to your work. In reading some reviews, some users have tried to pull with a hoist and the devise would not work. I want to lift ornamental gates to flip on my welding table, getting to old to do it by hand. I seldom build a gate that weighs more than 400 pounds. I have a winch that has a capacity of 10,000 pounds or can buy this (http://www.northerntool.com/shop/too...7347_200307347) at northern tool. The only other thing I have left to consider is what I am going to route the cable with i.e. pulleys, sheaves or what. So there it is guys, I hope I am not asking for the impossible.

I'd use a winch, overbuild. You know either you or someone else will use it to lift a truck. Four wheel drive suppliers sell snatch blocks. Hang them from chain if you have the necessary height, or an outrigger that hangs them from a point level with the top of the beam. It's up to you to be sure your engineering is safe. No one wants it to crash to the floor with you beneath it.

Comment

Hoists from what I have worked with have a brake of some sort to hold a load after you let off the button. I would use a hoist for this reason. I have had a very cheap harbor freight electric hoist for the past couple years. I use it to set beams on jobs. It has worked flawlessly. I have used it to set up to a 850lb glulam without a hitch, very nice smooth, slow operation.

If clearance is a concern, make a small bracket system so you can slide in the hoist, use it, then pull it down. I would feel more safe doing that as you do not know how much extra load mounting it offset like you described and adding pullies would add.

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Thanks for the responses guys. I work in a small shop attached to my house 16X22, its just big enough to suit my needs. I mostly do ornamental work but occasionally work on a car, tractor, trailer etc. I have a two post lift for the big heavy stuff and a one ton chain hoist that I can suspend from a chain from the beam, not to mention a forklift and a smooth surface hydraulic lift. All I want to do here is flip gates easily and quickly. Here is the main issue, I have 6' 10" from the top of my table to the bottom of my beam. The chain hoist eats up nearly 14" when hung from the beam, this works fine for a 5' gate but just barley, besides it takes for ever to raise and lower. It appears if I can get a pulley/sheave mounted at the top of the beam the hoist hook will be just below the beam making it a simple and fast operation to flip a gate. As far as a hoist is concerned, as mentioned earlier most have a brake for holding a load. If I go with a hoist I will basically be mounting it upside down so I am not sure if it will operate in this manner. Just to be real specific does any one know if the Hoist will work upside down, refer to pic in first post as to why I want to mount it upside down. Keep those thought coming, they are greatly appreciated.

TB 302
Sync 250 DX
MM 180 Auto
Lincoln tombstone
DVI-2
Why do we drive on a parkway and park on a driveway

Comment

Thanks for the responses guys. I work in a small shop attached to my house 16X22, its just big enough to suit my needs. I mostly do ornamental work but occasionally work on a car, tractor, trailer etc. I have a two post lift for the big heavy stuff and a one ton chain hoist that I can suspend from a chain from the beam, not to mention a forklift and a smooth surface hydraulic lift. All I want to do here is flip gates easily and quickly. Here is the main issue, I have 6' 10" from the top of my table to the bottom of my beam. The chain hoist eats up nearly 14" when hung from the beam, this works fine for a 5' gate but just barley, besides it takes for ever to raise and lower. It appears if I can get a pulley/sheave mounted at the top of the beam the hoist hook will be just below the beam making it a simple and fast operation to flip a gate. As far as a hoist is concerned, as mentioned earlier most have a brake for holding a load. If I go with a hoist I will basically be mounting it upside down so I am not sure if it will operate in this manner. Just to be real specific does any one know if the Hoist will work upside down, refer to pic in first post as to why I want to mount it upside down. Keep those thought coming, they are greatly appreciated.

TB 302
Sync 250 DX
MM 180 Auto
Lincoln tombstone
DVI-2
Why do we drive on a parkway and park on a driveway

Comment

Some good comments are already in the posts above about the differences between a hoist and a winch..

I've had conversations with the engineers at Coffing Industries http://www.cmworks.com/coffing-hoists regarding their hoists we needed to lift some "failure is not an option" heavy loads... lead acid jar batteries filled with sulfuric acid weighing 700lbs each....

What makes a "hoist" different from a "winch" are the design requirements to ensure robust safety margins against the possibility of dropping a load and obvious dangers involved.. For example, their hoists are designed with a 5:1 safety factor.. the rated working load capacity is 1/5th of the design limit of any component used... and hoists have no release mechanism as many winches have, that if released would drop the load.. and of course a design to ensure positive braking.

Probably good advice to follow regarding any additional components used in the system.. If the component would allow an unintended fall and seriously injure you, use the 5:1 design margin in selecting those added components..

Pulleys in particular have design requirements that must be met to ensure the radius is large enough, whether it be chain or cable passing through it, to not be causing point stress or fatigue stress due to insufficient bending radius. For chain, the pulley shape where the chain rides, becomes a factor. Wear and some loss of strength over useable life has to be taken into account. This is probably why no manufacturer wants additional components added to their lift system that has not had a thorough engineering analysis.

An so far as selecting equipment, if it is not made in the USA where there is stringent testing and quality control to verify compliance to design specifications, it would not be on my list of parts to even consider using.

And if you have a question you want answered by a real expert, give the guys at Coffing Hoist a call and get their recommendation for your application........

Comment

Looks like I am spending tens of thousands of dollars or throwing safety out the window. All I want to do is flip a gate on my table, never in my wildest dreams did I think it would be so difficult and/or so costly. The last thing I want is for anyone to get hurt and by anyone I mean me since I am the only one working there. I have come close to injury several times trying to perform this action by hand, thank goodness for safety straps that I tie off before trying a flip.

TB 302
Sync 250 DX
MM 180 Auto
Lincoln tombstone
DVI-2
Why do we drive on a parkway and park on a driveway

Comment

that 10k winch should do fine i do alot of offroading and have used and have burned up plenty of winchs . whe the brake fails it doesn't drop the load fast infact it slowly backs off the only way the winch will drop a load fast is if you pop the cable or you strip out all the gears in it and i don't see that happening to you if your useing a 10k winch to lift 400lbs. we install 1000lbs super winches to lift and lower the fire pumps on jackup boats and to this day none of them have dropped or freefalled and the fire pump weighs atleast 600lbs plus hose weight. so if a 1000lbs superwinch can lift and hold a 600lbs load then your 10k winch should do it without even breakin a sweat.

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Looking at your idea makes sense and I think it will work just fine, but as the previous post said, 1000 lb would be more than enough. You can find winches in the 1000 to 1500 lb range for $100 on sale all day long. Check tractor supply. If you still have doubt about the load, put a snatch block on the cable, run the cable hook back up to your beam and use a hook in the snatch block as the lifting point. You'll double the winch capacity and it'll only have to work half as hard.

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Looks like I am spending tens of thousands of dollars or throwing safety out the window. All I want to do is flip a gate on my table, never in my wildest dreams did I think it would be so difficult and/or so costly. The last thing I want is for anyone to get hurt and by anyone I mean me since I am the only one working there. I have come close to injury several times trying to perform this action by hand, thank goodness for safety straps that I tie off before trying a flip.

for your application I would seriously just use a rope hoist.... they're not expensive.

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I really have had only good things to say about the hoist I got from harbor freight. It is one of three tools from there I actually care for. It's a freakin steal at under $200. I never talk up harbor freight, but this thing has really impressed me. I would strongly suggest making a bracket to hang when needed directly above. This would allow you to use it with the cable anchored onto the unit to double the lift capacity and slow the lifting motion. This is how I use it to set beams.

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Winch/hoist is mainly a semantic/marketing distinction. Functionally, they're interchangeable. Only an oil-filled device has a specific orientation - if it's dry, you can flip it any way you want. Pulleys & sheaves are marketed with a factor of safety, too, so you don't have to buy one with 5x the rating. If the load isn't going over your head (literally - not just up high), and there will never be a human load supported by it, then you only need to buy stuff rated for the maximum expected load (400#). It won't even begin to break until you go above 600#. If you want to build for 600, that stuff shouldn't begin to fail until you push 900.

This photo album shows several things I've lifted with the cheapest import winches available:http://www.supermotors.net/registry/2742/33395-2
And even when they begin to fail, they keep working for a long time. But again: no true overhead, and no lifting humans.