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Ill take Swellow over Totodile, although those two and Kingler I rank as Ash's weakest 3 Pokemon

And who is Ash's only Pokemon to sweep a league match by itself? Kingler.

My thoughts:
- I felt Gible/Torkoal/Swellow were really toned down (like Donphan in Ash vs Conway) to give more screen time to the "cooler" or "marketable". The writers realize by throwing in a few of Ash's Pokemon that aren't as important as the other ones and allow them to lose, the audience will ignore them and only remember cool Pokemon.
-This was an amazing battle. I wish a little more strategy would come out of Tobias.

Also hoped this would include Kingler and Tauros, seeing that they were the only two of Ash's reserves to not even show up/make cameos.

And who is Ash's only Pokemon to sweep a league match by itself? Kingler.

My thoughts:
- I felt Gible/Torkoal/Swellow were really toned down (like Donphan in Ash vs Conway) to give more screen time to the "cooler" or "marketable". The writers realize by throwing in a few of Ash's Pokemon that aren't as important as the other ones and allow them to lose, the audience will ignore them and only remember cool Pokemon.
-This was an amazing battle. I wish a little more strategy would come out of Tobias.

Also hoped this would include Kingler and Tauros, seeing that they were the only two of Ash's reserves to not even show up/make cameos.

I agree about Kingler and Tauros. Since having all of Ash's reserve Pokemon appearing around League time, whether it be battling or making a cameo, was clearly supposed to make up for the fact that there wasn't going to be a reunion episode featuring them, they really missed a trick by not showing them.

So I know a lot of people will probably say the writers would have made Tobias win no matter what Pokemon Ash chose just because they would have never wanted Ash to win the Sinnoh League.

One could argue that Ash was saving some of his stronger Pokemon for the finals. But he did know Tobias was probably the stongest trainer in the whole Sinnoh League. So do you think Ash chose the right Pokemon. I mean yes one could argue that the Pokemon he chose were some of his strongest (Pikachu, Sceptile, Heracross, etc.) but knowing who he was up against, do you think he could have made it a closer battle if used different Pokemon?

So I know a lot of people will probably say the writers would have made Tobias win no matter what Pokemon Ash chose just because they would have never wanted Ash to win the Sinnoh League.

One could argue that Ash was saving some of his stronger Pokemon for the finals. But he did know Tobias was probably the stongest trainer in the whole Sinnoh League. So do you think Ash chose the right Pokemon. I mean yes one could argue that the Pokemon he chose were some of his strongest (Pikachu, Sceptile, Heracross, etc.) but knowing who he was up against, do you think he could have made it a closer battle if used different Pokemon?

Ohhh, I don't think it would've mattered either way. His pokemon are known to pull off ridiculous heists. Anyone remember in the Hoenn episodes were his Swellow got "lightning armor" against the twins? Wtf was that!? But yeah -- he could've used anyone and they probably would've all came just as close.

Latios and Darkai... seriously that's way too overpowered. Giovanni should have entered the league with Mewtwo... Anyway I think that this match would have been longer if Ash had chosen Charizard and Snorlax for this match.

Whoever said Skeptile was weak should be eating their words by now. However, I was mad that Ash lost but I'm not mad at Takuto because he had legendaries to be able to stop Ash. So that means the boy could have probably won. He should have used the Garden Godzilla in the beginning to handle Darkrai quick. But Ash didn't know he was going to battle a bunch of legendaries and if he did, he would have chosen better. And even if he chose Charizard doesn't mean he would have won either.

After rewatching this episode tonight, I realised how screwed over Ash really was.. Sure Tobias's Darkrai was meant to be strong, but did it really need to wipe out 3 Pokemon before being defeated? This is how I would've written it..

Darkrai vs Heracross -Would've played out very similarly, but lasted slightly longer so that the upcoming win was still believable. The type advantage SHOULD'VE made a difference.Darkrai vs Sceptile -Pretty much the same as it was, however Leaf Storm would've hit. Sceptile would've then been withdrawn after its win.Lucario vs Gible -Gible would've done basically the same here as it did against Darkrai, but maybe hitting with Dragon Pulse as well. Tobias would've said the same thing about Draco Meteor, but he would've also added that Lucario was the Pokemon responsible for Darkrai's capture.Lucario vs Sceptile -Sceptile, exhausted from its previous battle would've scored a hit with Leaf Blade and Pound (literally Leaf Blade, then turned quickly and hit with Pound), before being wiped out by a Close Combat.Lucario vs Kingler -Mainly because I firmly believe that the big guy deserved to be included in this league. It would've used a failing Guillotine and taken an Aura Sphere, before managing to defeat Lucario with a Hyper Beam and Crabhammer.Torterra vs Kingler -There should've been a well handled Torterra in the league. It could've been revealed as Tobias's starter to keep up the look of amazing strength on his part. Kingler would've seemingly matched a Solarbeam with Ice Beam, before being overpowered and defeated by the strong grass attack.Torterra vs Charizard -I didn't really understand why this guy wasn't here, in the league where Ash appeared at his strongest. He would've had some trouble with the powerful starter, before finishing off Torterra with Overheat.Latios vs Charizard -Would've still given us the flying confrontation that we saw with Swellow and Brock could've still made his comment on Tobias's strength. Charizard would've matched Luster Purge with Dragonbreath/Overheat and would've also hit Latios with a Steel Wing, before being destroyed by Giga Impact.Latios vs Pikachu -Basically the same battle, had no issues here..

This would've given Ash a couple more wins, making his eventual loss more acceptable to many. It would've also prevented the Hoenn team from looking like failures, since Torkoal and Swellow's participation and quick losses would be non-existant. It would've involved what is possibly Ash's strongest Pokemon besides Pikachu, as well as make good use of poor old Kingler. I would've much preferred something like this, but ah well. They can't all be winners, hey..

Currently TrainingFC: 0232-9153-8780I don't really have the time or patience to focus on nature's and IV'S, I just play with what I'm handed..

I think that the match was actually handled pretty well on the part of Darkrai:

Heracross was an obvious choice for type advantage, and it was handled well, showing that it's Hyper beam could hold it's own against an uber, while also showing that Darkrai was strong enough to cancel out a Hyper beam with "just" an Ice beam. The use of sleep talk was a good twist too.

Torkoal pretty much had to be the fall guy to show just how strong Darkrai was, as we know that Torkoal's defense made it good enough to hold it's own vs Registeel.

Gible put in a good showing, mastering Draco meteor. My only annoyance with his battle was that he was knocked out without being directly hit.

Ten of course Darkrai vs Sceptile was epic.

It was the random out of nowhere Latios that annoyed me. As good as Latios vs Pikachu was, It would've been better if Darkrai was his only legendary in my opinion.

This was a great battle and definetly the best in DP, it showed how far Ash had come as a trainer and created one of the most intense battles in the history of the show.

This made DP worthwhile for me.

Imo, this is the only thing I can say about this battle.

Originally Posted by phanpycross

I feel like this fandom idolizes Ash way too much. It was bad before, but with XY and S&M it feels like it has reached a whole new level. It's like every person that doesnt outright dislike him is obviously obsessed with with him, and every person who does him wrong is evil incarnate.

Living through other people is unhealthy; living through fictional 10-year olds that are stuck in a timeloop is super unhealthy.

Now that I look back, Tobais doesn't seem so bad. If Ash is going to lose again(crosses fingers), I hope someone has powerful Pokemon like this. That way I can feel better than him losing to a bunch of fools.