I'm a believer. I believe in love. I believe in that "spirit" if you will that makes me not want to do harm to another. That "spirit" if you will that makes me want to help someone in need.....to make their life a little more bearable. Now, if God is that "spirit", then I believe in God. The problem is, if God created this world, I don't see much evidence of his love. Right now, for instance, there are thousands of little girls and boys getting raped by a family member in this old world. And no other human being even realizes it as it's being done in secret. If a loving human being saw this, they would be compelled to stop the torture. But, in many cases, no one knows of the abuse except the child and the person abusing. But, if God exists, God knows and he does nothing to stop it. Can you see my point?

Yes I see your point. First off, I am not GOD and do not pretend to be. I also believe in love. And if you feel the way you do about love, then I can only assume that you are closer than you think at the moment. But what is love really...? Just a feeling or an action. How do we know what love is...? Does a Father discipline his child to correct them out of love...? Does one put there needs aside to serve the needs of another...? The question is....What is true love...? And how do you learn it...? Who determines it...?

As to why GOD would allow certain things to happen. IDK Yes, these things occur and it deeply saddens me. And I rather not try and pacify an answer for you without knowing for sure. But what I can tell you that even though we know these evil and inhumane acts occur we still have the power of love to conquer all of them.

Thank you for your kind response. You ask me what love is. I already described it as the spirit of not wanting to harm another person...of wanting to relieve another person's burdens so life is more bearable. Now. Because humans can mess their lives up and the lives of people around them, love sometimes requires hurting another person so that the person does not hurt themselves more or hurt other human beings.For instance. If I have a child that wants to eat 3 big macs a day, I might have to hurt him or her by saying, "No."

But love never includes torture for correction....never. In the world, we see babies undergoing the tremendous torture of hunger, disease. We see 4 and 5 year olds getting sodomized by family members or even strangers. These children have done nothing wrong so they don't need correction and, even if they had stolen a cookie, their correction should not be torture. But, this is precisely what we see going on in a world where some people claim a loving God created and maintains. You see, this is the problem.

You say, even though bad things happen, we have the power of love to conquer all of them. I don't know if humans have the power to conquer all of the bad things but I do know one thing. If humans don't get it done, it won't get done.

I'm a believer. I believe in love. I believe in that "spirit" if you will that makes me not want to do harm to another. That "spirit" if you will that makes me want to help someone in need.....to make their life a little more bearable. Now, if God is that "spirit", then I believe in God. The problem is, if God created this world, I don't see much evidence of his love. Right now, for instance, there are thousands of little girls and boys getting raped by a family member in this old world. And no other human being even realizes it as it's being done in secret. If a loving human being saw this, they would be compelled to stop the torture. But, in many cases, no one knows of the abuse except the child and the person abusing. But, if God exists, God knows and he does nothing to stop it. Can you see my point?

Yes I see your point. First off, I am not GOD and do not pretend to be. I also believe in love. And if you feel the way you do about love, then I can only assume that you are closer than you think at the moment. But what is love really...? Just a feeling or an action. How do we know what love is...? Does a Father discipline his child to correct them out of love...? Does one put there needs aside to serve the needs of another...? The question is....What is true love...? And how do you learn it...? Who determines it...?

As to why GOD would allow certain things to happen. IDK Yes, these things occur and it deeply saddens me. And I rather not try and pacify an answer for you without knowing for sure. But what I can tell you that even though we know these evil and inhumane acts occur we still have the power of love to conquer all of them.

Thank you for your kind response. You ask me what love is. I already described it as the spirit of not wanting to harm another person...of wanting to relieve another person's burdens so life is more bearable. Now. Because humans can mess their lives up and the lives of people around them, love sometimes requires hurting another person so that the person does not hurt themselves more or hurt other human beings.For instance. If I have a child that wants to eat 3 big macs a day, I might have to hurt him or her by saying, "No."

But love never includes torture for correction....never. In the world, we see babies undergoing the tremendous torture of hunger, disease. We see 4 and 5 year olds getting sodomized by family members or even strangers. These children have done nothing wrong so they don't need correction and, even if they had stolen a cookie, their correction should not be torture. But, this is precisely what we see going on in a world where some people claim a loving God created and maintains. You see, this is the problem.

You say, even though bad things happen, we have the power of love to conquer all of them. I don't know if humans have the power to conquer all of the bad things but I do know one thing. If humans don't get it done, it won't get done.

Hey Learnin,

Of course you know that I am a believer and not only do I believe in GOD and The Lord Jesus Christ and His Holy Spirit. Although we may disagree w/ that at the moment, I want to tell you that I have nothing but respect for your honest and sincere answer. The thing is, I don't hate any of you at all. Although it does pain me to read and see some of the comments posted here. Only because I know that GOD has been good to me. And I know, when I say this, I will be challenged and people will ask me, "What proof do you have that GOD exists...?" Well, I assume many of you have challenged many people w/ this assertion already. I assume people have already quoted scripture, given personal testimony and probably other reasons that I just can't think of at the moment.

The only thing I can really say is GOD exists and is real to me. And it is personal to me. This by no means is evidence for you and I know this. But I am touched with your own words on how you describe love.

Also, I still firmly believe GOD answers prayer. Actually I don't just believe. I know. Again, please don't ask me to prove it. I know there is a bit of debate about this but let me just say this, I haven't gotten everything I ever prayed for given to me on a silver platter. And I really wondered if GOD was up above or wherever and heard me, ignoring me. There were prayers I remembered from my youth that did not get answered until later on in life. And I had completely forgotten about them until GOD brought them to pass, then I remembered. GOD never forgot. And yes, some prayers... simply put, It's not that they weren't answered. GOD said, no. And I know some of you guys might bring up the whole jug of milk thing but It doesn't hold water, IMO.

The only thing I can really say is GOD exists and is real to me. And it is personal to me. This by no means is evidence for you and I know this. But I am touched with your own words on how you describe love.

Also, I still firmly believe GOD answers prayer. Actually I don't just believe. I know. Again, please don't ask me to prove it. I know there is a bit of debate about this but let me just say this, I haven't gotten everything I ever prayed for given to me on a silver platter. And I really wondered if GOD was up above or wherever and heard me, ignoring me. There were prayers I remembered from my youth that did not get answered until later on in life. And I had completely forgotten about them until GOD brought them to pass, then I remembered. GOD never forgot. And yes, some prayers... simply put, It's not that they weren't answered. GOD said, no. And I know some of you guys might bring up the whole jug of milk thing but It doesn't hold water, IMO.

What's that old saying...? What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed with out evidence. You're giving us nothing but meaningless fluff to work with.

Also, I still firmly believe GOD answers prayer. Actually I don't just believe. I know. Again, please don't ask me to prove it. I know there is a bit of debate about this but let me just say this, I haven't gotten everything I ever prayed for given to me on a silver platter. And I really wondered if GOD was up above or wherever and heard me, ignoring me. There were prayers I remembered from my youth that did not get answered until later on in life. And I had completely forgotten about them until GOD brought them to pass, then I remembered. GOD never forgot. And yes, some prayers... simply put, It's not that they weren't answered. GOD said, no. And I know some of you guys might bring up the whole jug of milk thing but It doesn't hold water, IMO.

>> I haven't gotten everything I ever prayed for

Neither do Muslims, Hindus and New Agers. Have you compared the success ratio?

It seems that even new age morons have the same problems, when they ask for their new-age-moron-galaxy-God to answer their prayers. Consequently, they come up with the same rubbish that Christians and Muslims do, to explain why new-age-moron-God only answers some desires.

The only thing I can really say is GOD exists and is real to me. And it is personal to me. This by no means is evidence for you and I know this. But I am touched with your own words on how you describe love.

Also, I still firmly believe GOD answers prayer. Actually I don't just believe. I know. Again, please don't ask me to prove it. I know there is a bit of debate about this but let me just say this, I haven't gotten everything I ever prayed for given to me on a silver platter. And I really wondered if GOD was up above or wherever and heard me, ignoring me. There were prayers I remembered from my youth that did not get answered until later on in life. And I had completely forgotten about them until GOD brought them to pass, then I remembered. GOD never forgot. And yes, some prayers... simply put, It's not that they weren't answered. GOD said, no. And I know some of you guys might bring up the whole jug of milk thing but It doesn't hold water, IMO.

What's that old saying...? What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed with out evidence. You're giving us nothing but meaningless fluff to work with.

Hello Aaron123...

It's OK to disagree w/ me. I respect your decision and opinion. Whether I believe you or not is irrelevant. I am content in my faith. And I have wondered about the same questions many of you have. Personally, even though I don't have answers for everything and still have questions unanswered, I continue to hold on to that which I know. This is personal to me. It's not about religion for me. It's about me wanting to know my Creator in a more intimate way. Am I perfect, no. Curious, yes. And if it is religion you want, there is more than enough religions to go around to pacify ones need. Religion is not for me though. I want more than what religion has to offer. And I don't say this in a demeaning manner either as if I anything against people in general. No, I love GOD and I love people.

Also, I still firmly believe GOD answers prayer. Actually I don't just believe. I know. Again, please don't ask me to prove it. I know there is a bit of debate about this but let me just say this, I haven't gotten everything I ever prayed for given to me on a silver platter. And I really wondered if GOD was up above or wherever and heard me, ignoring me. There were prayers I remembered from my youth that did not get answered until later on in life. And I had completely forgotten about them until GOD brought them to pass, then I remembered. GOD never forgot. And yes, some prayers... simply put, It's not that they weren't answered. GOD said, no. And I know some of you guys might bring up the whole jug of milk thing but It doesn't hold water, IMO.

>> I haven't gotten everything I ever prayed for

Neither do Muslims, Hindus and New Agers. Have you compared the success ratio?

It seems that even new age morons have the same problems, when they ask for their new-age-moron-galaxy-God to answer their prayers. Consequently, they come up with the same rubbish that Christians and Muslims do, to explain why new-age-moron-God only answers some desires.

OK.... I see what you are saying but I can do nothing about that. All I know is what is personal to me. As I do not claim any denomination. I am just a believer living by faith in GOD and whom I believe GOD sent, The Lord Jesus Christ. Trusting in Him and The Holy Spirit.

"In the end theologians are jealous of science, for they are aware that it has greater authority than do their own ways of finding “truth”: dogma, authority, and revelation. Science does find truth, faith does not. " - Jerry Coyne

It's OK to disagree w/ me. I respect your decision and opinion. Whether I believe you or not is irrelevant. I am content in my faith. And I have wondered about the same questions many of you have. Personally, even though I don't have answers for everything and still have questions unanswered, I continue to hold on to that which I know. This is personal to me. It's not about religion for me. It's about me wanting to know my Creator in a more intimate way. Am I perfect, no. Curious, yes. And if it is religion you want, there is more than enough religions to go around to pacify ones need. Religion is not for me though. I want more than what religion has to offer. And I don't say this in a demeaning manner either as if I anything against people in general. No, I love GOD and I love people.

Except that you can't prove any of this, which you more or less admit. If you can't prove it then you don't actually know anything, nor do you have any real answers. You can't actually know your creator, you cannot have a relationship with him because without evidence everything that you think you know cannot be distinguished from a dream or a figment of your imagination.

So all of your talk about wanting to know god is essentially a happy lie that you're telling yourself. If you really wanted to know god you would be searching for the evidence for him. Not fuzzy feelings or happy thoughts, but the actual tangible evidence that proves him and what he wants and says. Then you could honestly say that you know and understand him.

Logged

"I drank what?!"- Socrates

"Dying for something when you know you'll be resurrected is not a sacrifice.It's a parlour trick."- an aquaintance

Philip of Macedon: (via messenger) If we enter Sparta, we will raze all your buildings and ravage all your women.Spartan Reply: If.

OK.... I see what you are saying but I can do nothing about that. All I know is what is personal to me. As I do not claim any denomination. I am just a believer living by faith in GOD and whom I believe GOD sent, The Lord Jesus Christ. Trusting in Him and The Holy Spirit.

Well, you do belong to a denomination. You belong to one that taught you that Adam and Eve were real. There are a lot of Christians who don't believe that; nearly all outside the Americas. You can believe in Christ without the ancient Hebrew and USA fanatical baggage. You do know that Paul threw out the Hebrew baggage?

I'm not here to proselytize. I can't change your mind nor can I make you a believer. It is not my job to convince you or anyone that GOD exists. I was simply relaying my experience since some of you were kind enough to share yours. I don't base my believing in GOD just on this. My evidence is personal to me and to me only. I could tell you until I was blue in the face but that won't change anything.

I get this...I really do. I think, though, that you, and other theists who tell us the same thing would fare much better here if they would only be willing to say something like, "I understand that many people have had feelings industinguishable from mine in response to other stimuli which have nothing supernatural about them at all, and while I choose to believe that my feelings are a result of god's spirit moving in my life, I concede that I may be entirely wrong about this".

Is it so impossible to keep an open mind and understand that what you have experienced and attributed to god could just as easily have come about through a mixture of self and/or mass hypnosis phenomena along with various events which might have been coincidental?

Hi there...

I saw your other post and I would be more than willing to respond and truthfully, I can't speak for anyone else nor do I know what others have been through.

At one point in my life, I really considered this a possibility. So I understand why people think this and there reasonings for it. And I know that you are not alone in your opinions. There was another post somewhere that mentioned the difference in responses to prayer from people w/ differing faiths. Again, another point in my life this bothered me. Because I just knew that I was totally right and everyone else was wrong. But as time goes on, no matter what, I just felt that I was pointing fingers at everyone w/o focusing on the other three pointing back at me. Even in Church sermons, I always felt as if I was getting my toes stepped on, if anyone here knows what I mean. Conviction is good, especially GODLY conviction but there needs to be a time of healing. OK back on topic.....

Yes, I make mistakes..... there is no denying that. I messed up, if not more than most of you here. I could tell you that I could be wrong. But the truth is, This is my life and I know the things that have happened to me personally. I know the actions I have done. I know the thoughts that I have had. I know the words I have spoke. Not just when someone was looking but all the time. I know the things that my heart desires and the things that move me and are sentimental to me. This is what makes it personal to me, that no one here could ever know. This why I always say it is personal because the things that I know in my heart and how I feel that GOD has interacted with me throughout my life knowing only the the things that only I could ever possibly know. No one else.

So it doesn't matter what I tell you. Only you know these things that pertain to you individually. Things that no one else know. These things have made the difference to me and have personally helped me understand. And not only gets my attentions but makes it closer than close. It's not about religion anymore, it's more than that. It's more about falling in love.

I hope this doesn't offend you and I hope this answers your question. Thank you.

OK.... I see what you are saying but I can do nothing about that. All I know is what is personal to me. As I do not claim any denomination. I am just a believer living by faith in GOD and whom I believe GOD sent, The Lord Jesus Christ. Trusting in Him and The Holy Spirit.

Well, you do belong to a denomination. You belong to one that taught you that Adam and Eve were real. There are a lot of Christians who don't believe that; nearly all outside the Americas. You can believe in Christ without the ancient Hebrew and USA fanatical baggage. You do know that Paul threw out the Hebrew baggage?

Whether I believe it is real or just a poetic parable makes no difference. That is not what is important I feel. I feel the truth is there and that is what I feel is important. Whether Adam and Eve were real actual people or a story that tells the truth hidden within a poem makes no difference. Even Jesus came preaching in parables. It is written that He is the Word of GOD. So if He is the Word of GOD and even He came teaching in parables and then later revealed plainly to those who loved Him. The importance is the truth of Jesus Christ.

I'm not here to proselytize. I can't change your mind nor can I make you a believer. It is not my job to convince you or anyone that GOD exists. I was simply relaying my experience since some of you were kind enough to share yours. I don't base my believing in GOD just on this. My evidence is personal to me and to me only. I could tell you until I was blue in the face but that won't change anything.

I get this...I really do. I think, though, that you, and other theists who tell us the same thing would fare much better here if they would only be willing to say something like, "I understand that many people have had feelings industinguishable from mine in response to other stimuli which have nothing supernatural about them at all, and while I choose to believe that my feelings are a result of god's spirit moving in my life, I concede that I may be entirely wrong about this".

Is it so impossible to keep an open mind and understand that what you have experienced and attributed to god could just as easily have come about through a mixture of self and/or mass hypnosis phenomena along with various events which might have been coincidental?

Hi there...

I saw your other post and I would be more than willing to respond and truthfully, I can't speak for anyone else nor do I know what others have been through.

At one point in my life, I really considered this a possibility. So I understand why people think this and there reasonings for it. And I know that you are not alone in your opinions. There was another post somewhere that mentioned the difference in responses to prayer from people w/ differing faiths. Again, another point in my life this bothered me. Because I just knew that I was totally right and everyone else was wrong. But as time goes on, no matter what, I just felt that I was pointing fingers at everyone w/o focusing on the other three pointing back at me. Even in Church sermons, I always felt as if I was getting my toes stepped on, if anyone here knows what I mean. Conviction is good, especially GODLY conviction but there needs to be a time of healing. OK back on topic.....

Yes, I make mistakes..... there is no denying that. I messed up, if not more than most of you here. I could tell you that I could be wrong. But the truth is, This is my life and I know the things that have happened to me personally. I know the actions I have done. I know the thoughts that I have had. I know the words I have spoke. Not just when someone was looking but all the time. I know the things that my heart desires and the things that move me and are sentimental to me. This is what makes it personal to me, that no one here could ever know. This why I always say it is personal because the things that I know in my heart and how I feel that GOD has interacted with me throughout my life knowing only the the things that only I could ever possibly know. No one else.

So it doesn't matter what I tell you. Only you know these things that pertain to you individually. Things that no one else know. These things have made the difference to me and have personally helped me understand. And not only gets my attentions but makes it closer than close. It's not about religion anymore, it's more than that. It's more about falling in love.

I hope this doesn't offend you and I hope this answers your question. Thank you.

Why is it you think he cares for you and interacts with you,yet he could not give a fuck for the 3000 children who starve every hour. What makes you SO special and the 3000 kids no more than an afterthought to God?

These starving children ,as I can see it probably either never heard of Jesus,or he is not relevant in their short lives.so where are they,hell? Why would God be concerned with you? While he sends these kids to hell,what makes you so special?

Logged

There's no right there's no wrong,there's just popular opinion (Brad Pitt as Jeffery Goines in 12 monkeys)

I'm not here to proselytize. I can't change your mind nor can I make you a believer. It is not my job to convince you or anyone that GOD exists. I was simply relaying my experience since some of you were kind enough to share yours. I don't base my believing in GOD just on this. My evidence is personal to me and to me only. I could tell you until I was blue in the face but that won't change anything.

I get this...I really do. I think, though, that you, and other theists who tell us the same thing would fare much better here if they would only be willing to say something like, "I understand that many people have had feelings industinguishable from mine in response to other stimuli which have nothing supernatural about them at all, and while I choose to believe that my feelings are a result of god's spirit moving in my life, I concede that I may be entirely wrong about this".

Is it so impossible to keep an open mind and understand that what you have experienced and attributed to god could just as easily have come about through a mixture of self and/or mass hypnosis phenomena along with various events which might have been coincidental?

Hi there...

I saw your other post and I would be more than willing to respond and truthfully, I can't speak for anyone else nor do I know what others have been through.

At one point in my life, I really considered this a possibility. So I understand why people think this and there reasonings for it. And I know that you are not alone in your opinions. There was another post somewhere that mentioned the difference in responses to prayer from people w/ differing faiths. Again, another point in my life this bothered me. Because I just knew that I was totally right and everyone else was wrong. But as time goes on, no matter what, I just felt that I was pointing fingers at everyone w/o focusing on the other three pointing back at me. Even in Church sermons, I always felt as if I was getting my toes stepped on, if anyone here knows what I mean. Conviction is good, especially GODLY conviction but there needs to be a time of healing. OK back on topic.....

Yes, I make mistakes..... there is no denying that. I messed up, if not more than most of you here. I could tell you that I could be wrong. But the truth is, This is my life and I know the things that have happened to me personally. I know the actions I have done. I know the thoughts that I have had. I know the words I have spoke. Not just when someone was looking but all the time. I know the things that my heart desires and the things that move me and are sentimental to me. This is what makes it personal to me, that no one here could ever know. This why I always say it is personal because the things that I know in my heart and how I feel that GOD has interacted with me throughout my life knowing only the the things that only I could ever possibly know. No one else.

So it doesn't matter what I tell you. Only you know these things that pertain to you individually. Things that no one else know. These things have made the difference to me and have personally helped me understand. And not only gets my attentions but makes it closer than close. It's not about religion anymore, it's more than that. It's more about falling in love.

I hope this doesn't offend you and I hope this answers your question. Thank you.

Why is it you think he cares for you and interacts with you,yet he could not give a fuck for the 3000 children who starve every hour. What makes you SO special and the 3000 kids no more than an afterthought to God?

These starving children ,as I can see it probably either never heard of Jesus,or he is not relevant in their short lives.so where are they,hell? Why would God be concerned with you? While he sends these kids to hell,what makes you so special?

I feel you are wrongfully accusing GOD . We were warned that these things would come. Also, children haven't reached an age of accountability.

I feel you are wrongfully accusing GOD . We were warned that these things would come. Also, children haven't reached an age of accountability.

I hate the 'age of accountability' bullshit argument, considering how even the bible says a babe born of a woman is a few days old and full of trouble (Job 14-1). Do you actually understand that, regard of their 'age of accountability' as you and many so foolishly call it, the reality is that there are thousands and thousands of children starving to death, by the hands of a loving god, as you call him? He's a complete douche.

It's kind of ignorant for you to think you're so special in the eyes of your god and your lord, simple because you've been so 'blessed' to have heard your god's son's name preached in some church on a Sunday morning. Considering that you are deemed not worthy to spend eternity with him, so in turn you feel you need to give him constant praise and admiration and thanks for his horrible decision to ignore those truly suffering by his hands, and deeming those to hell for not even being given a chance to hear his words preached.

No one is wrongfully accusing your god of anything. He deserves to be accused. He deserves to be called a sick, sadistic, monster worthy of no one's praise. After all, he keeps a watchful eye on his creation, doesn't he? He knows what his creation needs, doesn't he. The bible even says so (Matt 6:8. Yet, the only way he gives his creation what we need is if we ask for it first. No sane people would do this when they see thousands of people dying because they haven't even had a chance of finding their 'escape' in prayer. God should be held on trial for his lack of concern for those who die without having the option or even having the knowledge that they could escape simply by uttering a few words out of their mouths.

Also, where in the bible does it make mention of an 'age of accountability' anyways. According to Acts 16:30:

Acts 16:30-33King James Version (KJV) 30And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved?

31And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.

32And they spake unto him the word of the Lord, and to all that were in his house.

33And he took them the same hour of the night, and washed their stripes; and was baptized, he and all his, straightway.

So to be saved:1: Believe in the Lord, Jesus Christ.2: Be baptized.3 (not listed) give him constant praise[1].

It's pretty straight forward to get saved. The only thing is to stay saved, which depends on the way the saved one wishes to live their lives. But no where in the bible have I read that it gives a cut off point in age that says, "those under this line, whether they die before hearing me or not, get saved."

I feel you are wrongfully accusing GOD . We were warned that these things would come. Also, children haven't reached an age of accountability.

I hate the 'age of accountability' bullshit argument, considering how even the bible says a babe born of a woman is a few days old and full of trouble (Job 14-1). Do you actually understand that, regard of their 'age of accountability' as you and many so foolishly call it, the reality is that there are thousands and thousands of children starving to death, by the hands of a loving god, as you call him? He's a complete douche.

It's kind of ignorant for you to think you're so special in the eyes of your god and your lord, simple because you've been so 'blessed' to have heard your god's son's name preached in some church on a Sunday morning. Considering that you are deemed not worthy to spend eternity with him, so in turn you feel you need to give him constant praise and admiration and thanks for his horrible decision to ignore those truly suffering by his hands, and deeming those to hell for not even being given a chance to hear his words preached.

No one is wrongfully accusing your god of anything. He deserves to be accused. He deserves to be called a sick, sadistic, monster worthy of no one's praise. After all, he keeps a watchful eye on his creation, doesn't he? He knows what his creation needs, doesn't he. The bible even says so (Matt 6:8. Yet, the only way he gives his creation what we need is if we ask for it first. No sane people would do this when they see thousands of people dying because they haven't even had a chance of finding their 'escape' in prayer. God should be held on trial for his lack of concern for those who die without having the option or even having the knowledge that they could escape simply by uttering a few words out of their mouths.

Also, where in the bible does it make mention of an 'age of accountability' anyways. According to Acts 16:30:

Acts 16:30-33King James Version (KJV) 30And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved?

31And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.

32And they spake unto him the word of the Lord, and to all that were in his house.

33And he took them the same hour of the night, and washed their stripes; and was baptized, he and all his, straightway.

So to be saved:1: Believe in the Lord, Jesus Christ.2: Be baptized.3 (not listed) give him constant praise[1].

It's pretty straight forward to get saved. The only thing is to stay saved, which depends on the way the saved one wishes to live their lives. But no where in the bible have I read that it gives a cut off point in age that says, "those under this line, whether they die before hearing me or not, get saved."

He specifically says "children". Says The Kingdom of Heaven belongs to such as these. At what age are they no longer considered children...?

I think it doesn't. The children he prayed for were specifically brought to him with the need for him to pray for them, but any loving god wouldn't put children in the position of needing a prayer by him to begin with. That verse features children who were brought to jesus by someone, a family member or someone else, who already heard of this awesome stuff that jesus was preaching. That verse seems to show that the children had to have had someone show them who jesus was in the first place. It doesn't give any relevance to the those who never had the privilege of being able to come into contact with him in the first place. That entire chapter discusses a "great multitude" (Matt 19:2) following him. That multitude would've already been seeking his blessings because of what they heard him do.

So it doesn't really discuss an 'age of accountability' and it doesn't and shouldn't give any relief that there are thousands and thousands of children dying who never even had a chance to hear jesus' name or words. All it does is discuss how there were children who were brought to jesus who needed a prayer and blessing and he supplied it to them.

I don't know. I don't really see any place in the bible that discusses how one can be saved without even hearing the name of jesus. Biblical speaking it's impossible. Somehow someone needs to know jesus or at least come into contact with him in order to be saved. Still thousands of children were dying simple because jesus never traveled to their remote location on earth.

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"Great moments are born from great opportunities." Herb Brooks

I edit a lot of my posts. The reason being it to add content or to correct grammar/wording. All edits to remove wording get a strike through through the wording.

He specifically says "children". Says The Kingdom of Heaven belongs to such as these. At what age are they no longer considered children...?

I think it doesn't. The children he prayed for were specifically brought to him with the need for him to pray for them, but any loving god wouldn't put children in the position of needing a prayer by him to begin with. That verse features children who were brought to jesus by someone, a family member or someone else, who already heard of this awesome stuff that jesus was preaching. That verse seems to show that the children had to have had someone show them who jesus was in the first place. It doesn't give any relevance to the those who never had the privilege of being able to come into contact with him in the first place. That entire chapter discusses a "great multitude" (Matt 19:2) following him. That multitude would've already been seeking his blessings because of what they heard him do.

So it doesn't really discuss an 'age of accountability' and it doesn't and shouldn't give any relief that there are thousands and thousands of children dying who never even had a chance to hear jesus' name or words. All it does is discuss how there were children who were brought to jesus who needed a prayer and blessing and he supplied it to them.

I don't know. I don't really see any place in the bible that discusses how one can be saved without even hearing the name of jesus. Biblical speaking it's impossible. Somehow someone needs to know jesus or at least come into contact with him in order to be saved. Still thousands of children were dying simple because jesus never traveled to their remote location on earth.

I'm sorry Emily. I can't understand why you are denying Jesus' obvious statement here. You seem to be adding more to it than what He clearly states but if this is the way you feel, then there is really nothing I can say about this.

Again, I feel that GOD is being wrongfully accused and I don't understand why you are blaming Him for anything when it is He whom has loved you and has given you life. And fully understand why some things are happening and why He must with-hold His hand at the moment. When it is not Him killing innocent children. It appears this way to you but it is not the truth. Did not the devil temp Jesus in the desert. Do you not remember what he tempted Him with...? Look it up and see and stop blaming GOD for something He is going to stop and deal with swiftly at the appointed time. All must be fulfilled first.

and I don't understand why you are blaming Him for anything when it is He whom has loved you and has given you life. And fully understand why some things are happening and why He must with-hold His hand at the moment. When it is not Him killing innocent children. It appears this way to you but it is not the truth. Did not the devil temp Jesus in the desert. Do you not remember what he tempted Him with...?

God is only being blames for his inactiveness. It's not our fault he is inactive in the lives of millions of people who, if he exists and is all loving and all powerful, is doing nothing in preventing countless acts of inhumane treatment and suffering of millions and millions of people, or who would do anything for a less-than-decent meal at the end of the day. It's so easy for someone, like say, you, give thanksgiving to god for your meal, and thank him for you not starving, having a home, a computer, perhaps a car, and maybe a job. You thank god for all this. Christians thank god for all sorts of things in their lives, some small like getting a good job, or some major like protecting them through a major operation. But the reality is that while god is somehow doing such great works in some people he seems to be ignoring more major problems like world hunger and diseases brought about by malnutrition, lack of clean drinking water, etc.

You can rationalize your god's inactiveness on the lives of the truly needed all you want too. But to quote George Carlin:

" the more you look around, the more you realize, something is fucked up.

Something is wrong here. War, disease, death, destruction, hunger, filth, poverty, torture, crime, corruption, and the Ice Capades. Something is definitely wrong. This is not good work. If this is the best God can do, I am not impressed. Results like these do not belong on the résumé of a Supreme Being. This is the kind of shit you'd expect from an office temp with a bad attitude. And just between you and me, in any decently-run universe, this guy would've been out on his all-powerful ass a long time ago."

Look it up and see and stop blaming GOD for something He is going to stop and deal with swiftly at the appointed time. All must be fulfilled first.

Sorry, if this is the best your god can do I truly am not impressed. I mean, come on. The appointed time. Since christ supposedly lived 2000 years have past. I'm beginning to wonder if jesus has stood us all up. He's acting like that guy who wont go on a second date with that girl because the girl didn't put out on the first. I guess we all should've swallowed when we had the chance. We can only wait at the bar so long until we become impatient and give up on his arrival, and begin to question if he will show up.

Jesus has had more than enough time to make his presence known to his creation via his second coming. The more he puts his second coming off the more his creation should begin to think that he abandoned us. So far it seems like he has.

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"Great moments are born from great opportunities." Herb Brooks

I edit a lot of my posts. The reason being it to add content or to correct grammar/wording. All edits to remove wording get a strike through through the wording.

So tell me this. In your own words, why is there so much famine in the world w/o using GOD as an excuse...?

Lack of crops. Lack of clean water. Lack of knowledge in how to grow crops. Lack of clean soil for growing crops.

Oh, and while there is famine in the world there was a man names Norman Borlaug who took proactive steps in attempting to curing world hunger. Even though he didn't cure world hunger completely, he left a big dent in the problem.

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"Great moments are born from great opportunities." Herb Brooks

I edit a lot of my posts. The reason being it to add content or to correct grammar/wording. All edits to remove wording get a strike through through the wording.

Also, I still firmly believe GOD answers prayer. Actually I don't just believe. I know. Again, please don't ask me to prove it. I know there is a bit of debate about this but let me just say this, I haven't gotten everything I ever prayed for given to me on a silver platter. And I really wondered if GOD was up above or wherever and heard me, ignoring me. There were prayers I remembered from my youth that did not get answered until later on in life. And I had completely forgotten about them until GOD brought them to pass, then I remembered. GOD never forgot. And yes, some prayers... simply put, It's not that they weren't answered. GOD said, no. And I know some of you guys might bring up the whole jug of milk thing but It doesn't hold water, IMO

This attitude is commonplace and mundane. It often correlates with a lack of education necessary to meta-cognate, and think critically about the process of belief behaviour.

I'd like to know why the jug of milk doesn't hold water, in your opinion.

Again, I feel that GOD is being wrongfully accused and I don't understand why you are blaming Him for anything when it is He whom has loved you and has given you life.

You are assuming that God gave us life without any proof to back it up. In that sense, it's just a statement that could be wrong or could be right.

You see, this is the problem. You have this image of God conjured in your mind that was likely put there by people you have trusted throughout your life. They give you words and phrases from the bible and have taught you things that seemed to make sense at the time, but relied on an overriding notion that having faith in a loving God is a good thing. You believe that God can not possibly do anything bad, but when you look at the reality of the world we live in, and you see all the bad that happens here, you are suddenly forced to come up with excuses as to why that happens. What you seem to always gloss over is the fact that God might simply not be real in the first place.

But he sees them dying right? He knows they're dying, right? He's watching them die, right? All the time with the power to stop it, right? He may not be killing them directly, but standing by with folded arms can only mean one thing... He wants them to die. There is no other way around that for you.

So tell me this. In your own words, why is there so much famine in the world w/o using GOD as an excuse...?

Famine is (by far) better understood if you take the notion of a benevolent, all powerful being out of the equation, don't you think? This is simple common sense here. Honestly, I don't understand how you can view it any other way. Their natural circumstances dictate a lack of food. They have no access to it because of the things Emily cited. Just like our (in the better developed nations of the world) natural circumstances dictate an abundance of food. Just ask yourself what it would take for YOU to starve to death.

If God were evil, you could understand famine better. If God didn't exist, you could understand famine better. The only thing that does NOT make sense is to say that God is the greatest good in the universe.. yet he allows famine on massive scales. No matter what excuse you provide, famine in the presence of a God purported to be all good, all powerful, and loving toward the human race is the LEAST likely of those 3.

It would be like someone claiming their father is the best father in the world, and then you find out that they purposefully deny their children food. Any sane, rational person would just say the child is wrong. You could claim that the child's father is evil, sure. You could claim that the child doesn't really know their father, sure. But to claim he's the best father? Ridiculous no matter how you slice it.

You are very lost, ILOVEYOU. You really are. You've bought this nonsense hook, line and sinker. There are millions and millions of people who have very, VERY good reasons to think you're totally wrong. I know you think you're right, but you have only been given ONE side of a very TWO sided debate. Most of the people here on this website have been given a chance to look equally at both sides, and make a proper determination. There is no God. Never has been. You're belief that prayer works for you is ridiculous. It really is. That is all in your mind. While you may not have considered it, you must understand that in this argument, it is possible that YOU could be wrong.

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Whenever events that are purported to occur in our best interest are as numerous as the events that will just as soon kill us, then intent is hard, if not impossible to assert. NDT

So tell me this. In your own words, why is there so much famine in the world w/o using GOD as an excuse...?

Africa has been destroyed by various tropical diseases, and lately, because the Catholic and Islamic hierarchy decided to spread false information about condoms, so the continent has been blessed by HIV. Africa is also in strife, because of some concentrated mineral wealth. This problem also afflicts Arabs.

You seem to miss the point. The disharmony proves that God is not working the way Christians say He is. The God we see working out there is a big picture man, who would quite happily destroy Africa with HIV, if it means that a few africans can emerge from it and show their mutations against HIV, so that western drug companies can learn from it, and cure HIV in the west.

Christians say that God answers their prayers. Well, God obviously has a special plan for arabs and africans. Rather than get rid of a few mosquitoes carrying malaria, he'd rather keep africa ravaged. He could easily wipe out malaria and yellow fever, but I guess God is trying to repel white man from Africa, so that his master plan: that black men can rule a malaria-infested Islamic global-warming-world. Christians are definitely on the way out.

Allah does work in mysterious ways, but he is a slow worker.

In a word where God truly ruled, as Christians and Muslims say he does, there would be relative equality, and justice for the wicked. The God we see, is the God of malaria, cancer and death.

In a word where the Christian God was true, you would be able to win all the arguments, instead of lose them all.

PS: the story of Adam and Eve tells us nothing useful, because the people who wrote the story knew nothing of human evolution.