The quote you provided came from a post by member pizzanapoletana (Marco). So, Marco may be the best one to steer you to reading material that will further enlighten you on the direct vs. indirect methods of achieving better crust flavors. In the meantime, however, you may find the following post of interest: http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,861.msg8679.html#msg8679. This is an early post by Marco shortly after he became a member of the forum. You will also learn an awful lot by reading all of Marco's posts, as I have done on several occasions.

Continuing my experiments with the new KitchenAid dough making method described earlier in this thread, I decided recently to use the method to make enough dough for a 16” pizza. Previously, my efforts were more or less confined, as a matter of convenience, to a 12” test size. In addition to increasing the dough weight, I also decided to increase the amount of instant dry yeast I normally use, from 0.25% to 0.60%. This was done since I intended to cold ferment the dough for some time and I wanted to increase the chances of getting a good oven spring. In this case, the duration of the cold ferment turned out to be 12 days, 4 1/2 hours.

It will be noted from the above that I used a thickness factor of 0.107. This value was selected to compensate for the “losses” of dough in the bowl (“bowl residue”) due to ingredients sticking to containers (including the mixer bowl), implements (mainly the whisk), and so forth. When the dough was done, I used my digital scale to weigh out 21.10 ounces, which is consistent with the 0.105 thickness factor that I frequently use. The small amount of excess dough was discarded. As in past experiments, the hydration used was 65%.

In making the dough, I used a water temperature of 44.1 degrees F, which was the temperature of the water when I took it out of my refrigerator. Using that water temperature with the new dough making method, the finished dough temperature was 65.2 degrees F. Because of the somewhat larger dough batch size, the total elapsed time to make the dough for the 16” size, from beginning to end--when it went into the refrigerator--was 13-14 minutes, or about a couple of minutes longer than it has taken me to make dough for the standard 12” test size. In all respects, the method I used to make the dough was the same as for the immediately preceding experiment.

Once the dough was completed, I lightly oiled it and placed it in a metal container with a tight-fitting lid. The container then went into the refrigerator. Off and on I would check in on the dough to see how it was evolving. On about the second or third day in the refrigerator, I noticed that the color of the dough was darkening slightly, with what appeared to be small dark specks that gave a light gray tinge to the dough. The dough remained that way for the next nine or ten days, increasing a bit each day. Over that time, the dough spread from a round ball shape to a disk shape. The first two photos show the dough at the 2-3-day stage and at Day 12 plus 4 1/2 hours, when I removed the dough from the refrigerator. As will be noted from the second photo, the dough was quite a bit darker than when it started. And a bubble started to rise out of the dough. However, interestingly, the bottom of the dough, which I had a good chance to observe when I decided to use the dough, was normal looking, with a nice yellowish-tan color. I decided that the gray side would become the bottom of the pizza. (From what I have read, the specks may have been due to either oxidation of iron included in the enrichments to the flour or due to agglomeration of yeast particles.)

When time came to form the dough into the skin--after the dough was allowed to sit on the counter for about 2 hours at room temperature--it was quite extensible. However, it was not much more extensible than typical high-hydration Lehmann NY style doughs I have made at 3 days. I had no problem stretching the dough out to 16”. To do this, I lifted the dough and stretched it out as far as I could without the dough getting away from itself, and finished the stretching on the counter.

Because my pizza stone cannot accommodate a 16” pizza, I decided to use the pizza screen and stone combination that I have frequently used in the past. In preparation for using the screen/stone combination, I had preheated the oven and the stone for about an hour at 500-550 degrees F. The 16” skin was placed on my 16” screen, dressed (in a standard pepperoni style), and baked on the second oven rack position (from the top) for about 6 minutes—just as the rim started to expand in volume and was beginning to turn brown. I then moved the pizza off of the screen onto the stone (on the lowest oven rack), where it baked for an additional minute or so in order to get improved bottom crust browning. I finished by bringing the pizza back up to the second from the top oven rack position for about an additional minute in order to get increased top crust browning. I found no need to use the broiler element to get more browning, as I have done many times before in the past.

The last two photos below show the finished pizza. It was first rate in all respects. The most interesting part of the pizza was the crust. It was chewy but not bread-like. In fact, the entire crust, including the rim, had a texture that was reminiscent of those I have made using natural preferments. There was a “stretch” and springiness to the crumb, and it had tooth. The oven spring was surprisingly good, and, although not entirely evident from the photos, there were small blisters over the entire rim, along with a few bubbles. I attribute the bubbles and blisters to the late stage of fermentation. I also thought the crust color was very good, given the fact that I did not use any sugar in the dough and I did not use the broiler element to contribute to the crust color. I did not detect the same level of sweetness in the crust that I achieved in earlier experiments, but the crust was quite flavorful nonetheless, with a hint of sourness that was not objectionable in any way.

As a result of my recent experiments, I think I am starting to understand better what is happening. I think the use of sifted flour, the whisk element, etc., contribute to better dough handling qualities. But the longevity of the dough is most likely attributable to using cold water and adding the yeast (IDY) to the dough at the end of the dough making process, where it has less chance to bud and multiply, thereby allowing more of the sugars extracted from the starches or otherwise formed in the dough during fermentation to remain in the dough and be available as residual sugars at the time of use (several days later) to contribute to crust browning and sweetness in the finished crust. If this analysis is correct, then it occurs to me that using active dry yeast (ADY) instead of IDY and using the ADY dry, as member petesopizza suggested in another thread, may increase the useful life of the dough beyond 12 days. That is an experiment I intend to try, if for no reason other than to satisfy my curiosity.

A few additional thoughts. I think that it may be a good idea to use higher yeast levels, as I did, if one wants to go out to 10 or more days with the dough before using and to improve the oven spring. It’s even possible that the dough will not perform as well in the first few days, because of insufficient biochemical activity in the dough, or what I have come to refer to as “suspended animation”. This is just a speculation on my part since I haven’t tried a dough with such a short life under its belt using the new dough making method.

For my most recent experiment on this thread, I decided to modify the mixing and kneading regimen that I have been using to date. This time I decided to dispense with my KitchenAid stand mixer and instead to use a combination of an electric hand mixer, a bowl-type sieve (to sift the flour), a sturdy wooden spoon, and hand kneading. What I most wanted to see is if this combination could produce a dough with exceptional handling qualities—better than using a KitchenAid stand mixer. If successful, this would mean that one could make a high quality dough without needing a KitchenAid or equivalent stand mixer—only an electric hand mixer, a sieve, and a sturdy spoon—and a bowl, of course.

To conduct the experiment, I settled on the following dough formulation (a modification of the basic Lehmann dough formulation):

As will be noted from the above formulation, I elected to use a hydration of 65%. This is in line with my recent experiments, which have been successful with that hydration percent. I increased the yeast (IDY) a bit to compensate for the onset of winter in Texas (which means a cooler kitchen), and I used a thickness factor of 0.107 to compensate for minor dough losses during the course of mixing and kneading. Also as a concession to the arrival of winter, I warmed the water to about 72 degrees F before using. Using this water temperature, the finished dough temperature of the dough as it went into the refrigerator was about 74 degrees F. The dough produced using the above formulation was for one 14” pizza.

The following describes the steps used to make the dough:

1) Place the water in a bowl, add the salt, and stir for about 30-45 seconds to completely dissolve. (Note: If sugar is used, it also can be dissolved in the water after dissolving the salt, or separately in warm water, if desired. If ADY is substituted for the IDY, it can be rehydrated in a small amount of the formula water, for about 10 minutes, at around 100 degrees F, and be added to the rest of the formula water, which will be cooler.)

2) Stir the yeast (IDY) in with the flour and place within a bowl-type sieve (see first photo below). The openings in the sieve should be as small as possible but big enough to allow the yeast particles to pass through. In lieu of a sieve, a manually operated flour sifter can also be used.

3) Sift a small amount of the flour/yeast mixture into the bowl and, using an electric hand mixer (see second photo) operating at its lowest speed, incorporate the flour/yeast mixture into the water. Continue to do this in an alternating manner until the hand mixer bogs down and can no longer easily mix the ingredients. Once this occurs, lift the beaters out of the dough and, with the beaters spinning, spin any sticking dough ingredients off of the beaters into the bowl. Set the mixer aside. Its job is done.

4) Continue to sift the flour/yeast mixture into the bowl intermittently and use a sturdy spoon (I use a large wooden spoon) to incorporate. When about 2/3-3/4 of the flour/yeast mixture has been sifted into the bowl and combined, add the oil and incorporate using the spoon. If needed, the hands can also be used.

5) Remove the contents of the bowl and put on a work surface. Continue to sift small amounts of the flour/yeast mixture on top of the dough and incorporate by kneading. Although not necessary, if the dough is too wet and hard to handle without it sticking to the fingers all over the place, a bench knife can be used to turn and fold the dough onto itself. Continue the process until all of the flour/yeast mixture has been sifted onto the dough and the dough takes on a generally smooth, soft and elastic feel with no tears on the outer surface. There may be some small bumps but they will smooth out and disappear once the dough starts to ferment. The total knead time will be about 4 minutes for the batch size involved. At the end of the 4-minute period, the dough should be fully hydrated and have a slightly tacky outer exterior. Unless the dough is obviously too wet and really sticking to the fingers, the temptation to add more flour should be resisted.

6) Form the dough into a ball and knead for about another minute using the punch and fold technique. For those unfamiliar with this technique, it is shown in Images 4a-4c at http://www.woodstone-corp.com/cooking_naples_style_dough.htm. I do the kneading gently and for only a minute. It may well be that this step is unnecessary, especially for the small amount of dough involved, but it is fun and easy to do. When done, reshape the dough into a round ball, coat with a bit of oil, place into a container (see the third photo below), cover the container, and place it in the refrigerator.

Originally, I had planned to use the dough within about 2-3 days, but because of Christmas chores that period was extended to over 4 days. While in the refrigerator, the dough ball gradually flattened out, making it difficult to gauge the extent of its rise. Whatever dough expansion there was, it was quite modest. The dough was brought out of the refrigerator to room temperature and allowed to warm up for about 2-3 hours before using.

Overall, the dough was of exceptional quality. It was a bit on the extensible side, which was not particularly surprising after four days, but it was easy to handle and shape and stretch out to 14”. As I worked the dough, I could see that it had a uniform thickness and was completely smooth without any noticeable variations, layering or imperfections as I held the stretched out dough to the light and continued to stretch it even further. I could easily have stretched it out to 18” or better. From a handling standpoint, it was as good a dough as I have made, irrespective of machine or process although in the past I have achieved a similar quality of dough with exceptional handling qualities when I used a natural preferment, with a good example being the Raquel dough.

The results achieved suggest that a key element to achieving superior dough handling qualities is fully hydrating the flour. In this case, I would credit sifting the flour and using the electric hand mixer. A dough hook, and especially a C-hook as comes with my KitchenAid mixer, can’t do as good a job. So, for those who don’t have a KitchenAid or equivalent mixer but have a sieve and an electric hand mixer, they can make modest batches of high quality dough using only those simple tools along with hand kneading. Of course, for large dough batches, a machine may be the only logical option. While I didn’t use rest period during the preparation of the dough, doing so will facilitate making larger batches of dough, even with a high-gluten flour, and especially at a high hydration rate.

The final two photos show the finished pizza. The pizza (my standard pepperoni “test” pizza) had excellent flavor, although the cheeses started to brown before I had achieved the desired crust coloration. I used the Frigo brand of low moisture, part skim mozzarella cheese which, I know from past experience, browns quickly and can burn quite easily within a fairly short period of time. Also, I think a shorter fermentation period would have resulted in better crust coloration because of a higher residual sugar content. Although not readily apparent in the photos, there was a fair degree of blistering on the rim of the pizza. This was evidence that the dough was starting to overferment. I don’t mind blistering so that was not an issue for me.

As for the bake process itself, the pizza was baked on a 14” pizza screen for about 6 minutes at the second-from-the-top oven rack position and then moved onto a pizza stone (at the lowest oven rack position) that had been preheated for about an hour at 500-550 degrees F, to get increased bottom crust browning. After about a minute on the stone, the pizza was returned to its original position for about another minute. The broiler element was not needed or used.

I've had some nasty tendinitis in my elbow that's kept me from doing pretty much anything, including kneading dough, so I've been using store-bought dough for a few months. But I've been dying to try this new method. My elbow has finally healed, and I took a shot at making this dough this morning.

I won't know how it turns out for a week, but I had a problem during the preparation. I used the original method you outlined in post #2 of this thread. After mixing with the whisk attachment until I started hearing that groan that you mentioned, I switched over to the flat beater. I kept adding flour until it started to pull away from the bowl.

This is where I don't understand what's supposed to happen. At this point, the bulk of the dough is stuck to the beater and is simply going for a ride around inside the bowl. No kneeding is taking place. I added the IDY and let it run for 30 seconds. When I turned the mixer off, the IDY was still in a pile on top of the dough. I can knock the dough off the beater, but as soon as I start it up, it just sticks to the beater again and doesn't make any progress. So I took the flat beater off, scraped off the dough and switched to the C-hook at that point. The dough still wants to hang onto the beater, but with the dough hook, I'm able to keep knocking it off with the spatula.

A single 12" pizza won't be enough for my wife and I, so I made two batches - one with KASL and one with GMAT as a little shootout.

I followed the steps as I recited them in Reply 1 of this thread. Since the same recipe with different machines and even with the same model can produce slightly different results, it may be necessary to tweak the processing steps. For example, if the dough is sticking completely to the flat beater and you want to add the IDY to the dough, I would scrape the dough off of the beater and sprinkle the IDY uniformly over the dough. The objective is to disperse the IDY as completely and uniformly as possible within the dough--not have it sit in a single mass and be incorporated as such. In my case, after I added the IDY and kneaded it into the dough, I added the remaining flour, along with the salt and oil and a bit more water, the latter of which added a bit more liquidity to the dough to allow everything to better incorporate without completely adhering to the flat beater. I used the stir speed only so that everything came together slowly and didn't gather around the flat beater and stick there. The final kneading was done using the C-hook. I have found that one of the advantages of using some hand kneading is that it makes up for a lot of the shortcomings of the machine itself.

More recently, I have been experimenting with eliminating use of the C-hook altogether and substituting hand kneading, which I think does a better job than the C-hook. I have also been experimenting with using a higher speed (around 2) with the whisk attachment to see if that improves the hydration of the flour without overly developing the gluten or adding too much heat to the dough. This means not adding the flour too fast and trying to keep the mixture batter-like for as long as possible. I am still experimenting with this approach, but early indications are that the combination of using sifted flour, the whisk at higher speed, the flat beater, and hand kneading is a workable method that produces a very good dough at the desired finished dough temperature. Using an electric hand mixer in lieu of the KitchenAid mixer is also a very good method for those who do not have a stand mixer but have an electric hand mixer.

I have a relatively old and cheap KA mixer. It's the 4.5 quart model, and I don't have a stir speed. Couple interesting side-stories...

I found a great way to add the flour. I was having very mixed success adding it by tossing it to the center of the whisk. My aim was pretty inconsistent and I'd wind up with a good amount of flour on the bowl walls. I accidentally stumbled on this method. I take a spoonful of flour and put it near the whisk. As it orbits by and bumps the spoon, a little flour falls off. On each orbit, it knocks a little more flour right near the center of the bowl. So rather than tossing in a complete tablespoon of flour (with questionable success), I drop about a quarter teaspoon every time the whisk orbits by.

On this other issue, I'm not quite so proud. I was nearing the end of the kneading cycle. All the ingredients were added and I was just getting in that last minute or so to make sure everything was incorporated together. To make sure the dough doesn't hang onto the dough hook, I use a flexible spatula and put a little pressure on the spinning dough. This keeps it moving, relative to the hook.

But I lost my grip on the spatula and it started flying around the inside of the bowl, spinning with the dough hook. I immediately shot my hand to the speed control and turned it off. But as I turned it off, my hand slipped past the control, and as I quickly pulled my hand back, I inadvertently turned the mixer back on.

To speed 10.

It was quite a scene for a few seconds until I could get the mixer back off. With the spatula spinning around inside the bowl at the speed of light, it was flinging dough around the kitchen at an alarming rate. Thankfully, my wife was out walking the dogs at the time, and I was able to get all the obvious pieces off the cabinets and ceiling. But I've got a feeling that sooner or later I'm going to hear: "What's this yellow stuff on the curtains??"

When I first cobbled together all of the ideas to come up with the new method, I wanted someting that people, and especially beginners, could use with confidence and get good results and without having to bust their budgets to get the best mixers. Simplicity was one of the reasons I specified using only the stir speed. Since then, after seeing that an electric hand mixer does a nice job hydrating the flour, and at a higher rpm, even at low speed, than the stir speed on my KitchenAid stand mixer, I concluded that using the whisk of my KitchenAid stand mixer at higher speeds is also a viable option so long as the higher speeds are not too high and/or not used too long. I want better hydration but not excessive gluten development or excessive heat applied to the dough. Using the various methods and techniques I have described, I have not had a single bad dough. They have all been very good. I almost can't find a good reason to return to my old methods using a C-hook. Maybe if I am making large dough batches, but I would still use all of the steps leading up to the C-hook and try to minimize use of the C-hook as much as possible.

I might add that one way to compensate for losses in the bowl ("bowl residue") is to use the Lehmann dough calculator with a higher thickness factor. For example, using the whisk/flat beater method, I use something like 0.1075 in the Lehmann tool instead of 0.105. That way, I don't worry that a bit of dough sticks to the whisk or flat beater or that some flour sticks to the side of the bowl or that some water sticks to the measuring cup. The finished dough weight is about the same as if I used the 0.105 thickness factor and had no bowl residue.

I think once you are able to make a few good doughs you will see the merits of the new method, without having a good part of your results decorating your kitchen.

As part of the series of experiments I have been conducting on the new KitchenAid dough making method, my latest involved using non-rehydrated active dry yeast (ADY). As I previously noted, the idea of using non-rehydrated ADY was not a new one with me, having been used by giotto for some time and also by member petesopizza, as noted in this very interesting and intriguing thread:http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,3587.msg30225.html#msg30225.

In my case, I followed petesopizza’s suggestions and added the ADY to the dough at the end of the dough making process, just as I did not long ago with instant dry yeast (IDY), with very good results. The dough formulation I elected to use was this version of the basic Lehmann dough formulation (for a 14” pizza):

To compensate for the anticipated small dough losses using the new method, I increased the thickness factor I have been using, 0.105, by 2.5%, to 0.107625. The finished dough weight was just shy of the quantity that I would have achieved had I used the 0.105 thickness factor and had no losses.

I had originally intended to add the salt to the dough at the end of the dough making process, as I have been doing with all of the experiments on this thread. However, without thinking and purely out of habit, I dissolved the salt in with the water at the beginning. It wasn’t until the dough was almost done that I caught my error. I decided to proceed with the experiment anyway since dissolving the salt in water has been pretty much a part of my standard operating procedure when making the basic Lehmann dough. As noted below, there were a few other changes to the basic method I have been using.

To make the dough, I first sifted the flour into an auxiliary bowl, using a bowl-shaped sieve (shown in an earlier post). I then added the salt to the water in my KitchenAid mixer bowl and stirred the mixture until the salt was completely dissolved, about 30-45 seconds. The sifted flour was gradually added to the mixer bowl, a few tablespoons at a time, while the whisk attachment was attached and operating at speed 2. This was a higher speed than I had been using but I wanted to see whether the hydration of the flour would be improved by using the higher speed. In retrospect, it appears that the higher speed does help with the hydration, but it is not clear whether the degree of hydration is materially better than when using the stir speed. Although I was using formula water that was cold, I also did not want to introduce much heat to the dough because of the higher mixer operating speed. That turned out not to be a problem, and the finished dough temperature was well within range.

After I had added about 1/3 of the flour, I lowered the mixer speed to stir and continued to gradually add the flour until the whisk attachment started to bog down. At that point, after removing the dough from the whisk, I switched to the flat beater attachment and added the remaining flour, along with the oil. These were kneaded for about 3 minutes at stir speed. I then added the non-rehydrated ADY and kneaded that in also, for about 1 minute. The dough was nice and smooth—so much so that I found no need to use the C-hook at all. I simply did a gentle minute’s worth of the Woodstone punch and fold, reshaped the dough into a ball, oiled it, and placed it in a (covered) Rubbermaid plastic container. The total elapsed time to make the dough was about 10-11 minutes. The finished dough temperature was about 65 degrees F. (The formula water I used was about 43 degrees F.) Once done, the dough went immediately into the refrigerator.

I had anticipated that I would get a long life out of the dough. However, after about the 5th day, I could see that the dough was expanding faster than some of my previous doughs at the same stage. So, I decided to use the dough the next day. By that time, the dough was starting to produce some medium-sized gas bubbles at the surface of the dough, which was an indication that the dough was about to go into decline. I also noticed a lot of small bubbles at the sides and bottom of the dough, which were visible through the plastic container. In the past, I have found that the appearance of such bubbles in great numbers in the dough is a fairly reliable signal to use the dough. In fact, I now tend not to do anything with the dough until that stage is reached. I think many of my best crusts are produced by waiting for the “all clear” signal.

When I finally decided to use the dough, after about 6 1/3 days (including about 2 hours at room temperature on the bench), it was quite extensible (always a challenge with a 65% hydration dough) but it was easily shaped and stretched into a 14” round. There were many bubbles in the dough. The round was placed on a 14” pizza screen and dressed in my standard pepperoni “test” style. The pizza was baked at the second-from-the-top oven rack position for about 5 minutes and, as the rim expanded and started to turn brown and the cheeses were bubbling, I moved the pizza onto my pizza stone (at the lowest oven rack position) that had been preheated for about an hour at about 500-550 degrees F. The pizza was baked on the stone for about a minute or two, until the bottom crust browned up, and was then moved back to its original oven position and baked for a final minute. I did not use the broiler.

The photos below show the finished pizza. It was a very fine pizza. The crust was chewy and nicely colored, with a nicely textured crumb, with some “tooth” to it, and it exhibited good oven spring with many large bubbles and small blisters. The crust was very flavorful and, like many of my past experiments, was sweet. It wasn’t as sweet as my prior efforts using the new method but noticeable nonetheless, especially since I had added no sugar to the dough.

Since I deviated from my original plan, I intend to repeat the experiment but add the salt at the end of the dough making process rather than at the beginning. I’d like to see if the late addition of the salt will extend the useful life of the dough. But, whatever happens, I am very pleased with the new KitchenAid dough making method in general. I am hard pressed, in fact, to find a good reason to return to the old methods I have used before for the NY and similar styles, at least for the dough batch sizes I typically make.

I tried Peter's new technique and have to say that my first attempt was excellent. It was definitely one of the best crusts I have been able to make. The taste and texture was really nice and the crust browned very nicely. What really impressed me was how well the dough came together when you follow all the steps Peter outlined. I usually have to knead my doughs with the dough hook for a few minutes then continue kneading by hand for another few minutes before the dough is ready for the fridge. The Kitchen aid mixer just doesn't do a good job at kneading. With this technique I only kneaded the dough for about a minute with the dough hook then did the punch and roll as the Peter indicated. I think Peter is on to something with this one.

I cold fermented the dough for exactly 5 days. During the first 4.5 days the dough looked normal, similar to my previous doughs, but after about 4.5 days it had 2 bubbles on it similar to Peter's second picture on post #29 on this thread. Despite the bubbles, the crust was excellent as I previously mentioned.

My question is: Are the bubbles an indication of something gone wrong or an indication that the dough is about to expire? I've often noticed people say on this forum that they could tell the dough could have lasted another day or two, or that they could tell it was about to expire. Could someone elaborate what the indicators are that point to a dough about to expire? I'm just trying to figure out how long I could have kept this dough.

Below is the formula I used. I used .35% IDY because of the cold weather in Philly this time of the year. The temp of the dough was higher than expected when it entered the fridge; it was at 80 degrees. I guess I have to use colder water. I suspect this might have limited the length of the dough life. I want to try a 7 day dough and any input would be appreciated.

I also have adopted your wisk KA method with some slight modifications. I start out with the water, and all other non-flour ingredients, including the oil (if I use any), in the bowl. I slowly add flour until the wisk bogs down, then switch to the dough hook and add the remaining flour slowly.

By adding the oil to the water initially, my KA does not “flounder” in it’s kneading late in the process when I used to add the oil, but kneads the dough smoothly throughout the process. With several days in the fridge, I've never had an issue with my ADY due to the oil or salt in the water.

boyhitscar, A couple of reasons why bubbles form on the dough. One is that the dough has not been kneaded long enough to develop a proper gluten structure. The other is that the dough has had too much fermentation time. With a finished dough temperature of about 80F the fourth day is where you will usually see changes in a dough. I believe Peter has reccommended much lower finished dough temperutres when holding in the refridgerator for more than 3 days. A retarded has a window at which the dough performs the best, in both flavor and handeling charcteristics. When you use the dough at the end of the spectrum you are probably not getting the best performing dough. Oh by the way, i wanted to thank you for the Lehmann calculator. Chiguy

I have found that the scale comes in most handy when I want to weigh a small amount of a substance for which weight-to-volume conversion data is not readily or conveniently available. But, for the most part, I have found that standard weight-to-volume conversion data, even if it comes from or is derived from packaging information (that may not be 100% precise), is usually good enough for my purposes. The scale is a neat thing to have handy, and for me to spend around $25 for it (including shipping and insurance) so that I can do my experiments, it is worth having. Otherwise, I think I could live without it if I had to since I already have a pretty good list of conversion data for pizza related ingredients.

The presence of bubbles in a dough doesn’t necessarily mean that something is wrong, at least not in a fatal sense, but it may mean that too much yeast was used or that the dough management (especially temperature control) was less than optimal. Bubbles can certainly appear when a dough is overfermented or on the verge of overfermentation. With a properly made cold fermented dough using the new method, I estimate that there is about another day, or possibly two days, left of useful life after the bubbles first appear. When the bubbles first start to protrude from the surface of the cold fermented doughs I make, I press down on the dough to see if it is still firm. If it is, I figure there is about another day or so left to use it to be on the safe side, so I don’t worry. If the dough were soft and pillowy and flabby and appearing like it wants to deflate, then I would want to use it as soon as possible. I also look for the appearance of a profusion of small bubbles at the sides and bottom of the dough. To see these of course requires that the container that holds the dough be transparent or translucent.

I have also found that the degree of spreading and flattening of the dough while in the refrigerator is a pretty good indicator or marker of the potential useful life of the dough. I put the dough into the container shaped into a ball. I then watch to see how quickly it spreads. If the dough doesn’t spread and flatten quickly, it is likely that the dough will have a good long useful life, typically six days or more. With the right formulation and processing, it can be 10-12 days. If the dough ball flattens and spread quickly, whether it is because of temperature factors or other factors, as chiguy has noted, then its useful life is likely to be shorter, perhaps in the 4-5 day range. Each dough has its own mind, so you have to rely on experience to a great degree.

If prolongation of the usable life of the dough is an objective, then there are ways of achieving that objective. I still have a few more experiments to perform with the new dough making method, so there is still more to be learned on this particular aspect, but I would say that using cold water, along with small quantities of yeast, will help achieve that objective. I would also add the salt and yeast toward the end of the dough making process rather than at the beginning. I also often use a metal container to store the dough while it is in the refrigerator in order to cool the dough down a bit faster. If you really want to be anal about it, you can even pre-cool the metal container in the refrigerator for a while before putting the dough into it.

I think this is one of the main reasons why I am always so disappointed with the "famous" pizzerias. At home we have the luxury of being able to use the dough right at it's peak, while commercial pizzerias need to use their dough from the same mix over a period of hours, or sometimes even days if they are retarding.

When I first started my experimentation with the new method, I was attempting to incorporate as many aspects of the classic Calvel autolyse process as possible. About the only autolyse feature I did not use was the rest period, mainly because I wanted to be able to make the dough as quickly as possible, and I also didn't want the dough to warm up much during a typical 5-30 minute autolyse rest period (depending on whose advice one follows). As best I have been able to determine, the classical autolyse was not used with bread doughs using oil. However, my practice has been to add the oil at the end of the dough making process in order not to interfere with the hydration of the flour. This is a technique that is espoused by Tom Lehmann. I have often wondered about it, and especially so after seeing that November doesn't seem to be following that technique. That leads me to believe that November has good reason for not isolating the oil in his dough making process. It also occurs to me that if prolonging the useful life of a dough is an objective, maybe it is a good idea to add the oil at the beginning, just as you did, rather than the end. This is something I will have to test out sometime.

I don't think that the amount of yeast you used was too much. In fact, I often recommend that the amount of yeast be increased in the wintertime (and/or use warmer water) just to be on the safe side. The key temperature in my opinion is the finished dough temperature. Usually I temperature adjust the water to get the desired finished dough temperature but with the new method I found that I didn't have to worry about it when I used the water right out of the refrigerator. Also, the use of the whisk, even at pretty good speeds, and the flat beater don't seem to add much heat to the dough for the durations that they are deployed.

As a factoid, you might want to keep in mind that, according to General Mills, for each 15 degrees F rise in finished dough temperature (up to 100 degrees F), the rate of fermentation doubles. That may have been a greater factor in your case than the slight increase in yeast. The last dough I made had a finished dough temperature of around 65 degrees F. You indicated that yours was around 80 degrees F. There are undoubtedly other factors at work but temperature is a critical element.

The only experience I've had with the small scales is the My Weigh 300-Z scale. The Durascale model you referenced is accurate to 0.01 g. (as opposed to 0.1 g. for mine), but its maximum capacity is only 50 g. (compared to 300 g. for mine). So, it would depend on how you plan to use the scale. I went back and checked all of the dough formulations posted in this thread and certainly the Durascale scale can handle all of the small quantities involved (beyond the flour and water), and in multiples if desired (up to a maximum of 50 g., of course). What I can't tell you is how significant the accuracy is and whether the results are better than using the posted volume measurements. I know that pftaylor uses a small scale (a discontinued Frieling model) for his Raquel doughs and he swears by his scale, but he is the only other member I can recall who uses a small scale. Based on my experience with the 300-Z, I wouldn't personally hesitate to buy another My Weigh product because they seem to be held in high regard by scale users.

I have been using an IBal 201 scale for about a year. I originally got it to weight out spices for my sausage making. It has also serviced me well for weighing out hops for brewing and now I have pressed it into service for pizza making.

It has also been borrowed by other brewers to weigh out priming sugar.

This is not the place I purchased it from but it will give you a general description of it.

As best I have been able to determine, the classical autolyse was not used with bread doughs using oil. However, my practice has been to add the oil at the end of the dough making process in order not to interfere with the hydration of the flour.

Peter,

I believe I can watch the flour become hydrated as the wisk beats it into the water. At one point in the process, the flour just slips into a batter like consistancy. It is at this instant that I believe the flour has become significantly hydrated. This is also when I add more flour. The wisk eliminates the rest period through mechanical means, quickly and effectively. It is an eloquent solution, i.e., both faster and at least as good as a autolyse rest period. For me, this change is a major leap in process technology. Now I can work much faster, producing dough 2-3 times as fast as before.