Did Anyone Expect Anything Better from the Democrat Debates?

This is TTAG’s weekly roundup of legal and legislative news affecting guns, the gun business and gun owners’ rights.

The Dem Debates: Seriously, What Did You Expect?

The Democrat presidential debates dominated media attention this week. I’ve always taken issue with characterizing these things as “debates” as when one thinks of a “debate,” one generally imagines multiple people debating specific positions, rather than parroting memorized slogans and dodging uncomfortable questions.

That said, gun control was a popular refrain among 2020 Democratic presidential hopefuls, with many of the candidates spouting support for new laws and executive actions to reduce gun rights in this country.

We had Elizabeth Warren referring to gun violence as a “national health emergency,” but also shying away from federal intervention. We then saw Eric Swalwell, who has endeavored to make gun control a cornerstone of his campaign (and also bears more than a passing resemblance to Garfield’s owner) again allude to banning “the most dangerous weapons.”

Bernie Sanders mumbled something about a “gun crisis,” and spoke of his record of supporting assault weapon bans. Pete Buttigeg creatively suggested that if guns made Americans safer, then America “would be the safest country on Earth.”

A significant number of them mentioned school shootings, with particular attention paid to the Parkland activists. Because of course.

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“Crime of Violence” is Unconstitutionally Vague

On Monday, the Supreme Court ruled 5-4 in United States v. Davis that applying higher penalties for anyone using or possessing a firearm during a “crime of violence” was unconstitutionally vague. There are a number of considerations that go into the drafting of any law. One of the most fundamental is that a law must sufficiently identify the conduct it forbids.

As Justice Gorsuch wrote, “In our constitutional order, a vague law is no law at all.” Interestingly, Justice Gorsuch sided with the more progressive justices to overturn the law.

The law set a mandatory minimum sentence of five to ten years for crimes committed with firearms present. Other minimums are attached based on the type of firearm used, with traditionally NFA firearms being the most serious. The two men had been charged with brandishing short barreled shotguns, setting up 35-year minimum sentences.

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Kentucky Carry Goes Permitless

Kentucky Senate Bill 150 took effect on Thursday, eliminating the hurdles to carrying a concealed weapon in the state. Now, anyone who legally owns a firearm can carry it most places.

The law does not change where and when people can carry, but rather eliminates the training, cost, and licensure requirements. That means concealed firearms still aren’t allowed in courthouses, prisons, police stations, jails, and “drinking establishments.”

Grunge Ohio state flag. Ohio flag background grunge texture.

Ohio Permitless Carry

Similar to Kentucky, Ohio House Bill 174 cleared a house committee on Tuesday, sending it closer to a House vote. The law was held up by an amendment requiring gun dealers to hand out one-page pamphlets on state gun laws, specifically on the duty to retreat before responding to lethal force.

Opponents argued that this disclosure could get gun owners killed in a self-defense situation. This poses an interesting question, as a duty to retreat is clearly dangerous to anyone defending themselves. Is it a legitimate answer to the problems posed by a duty to retreat to avoid informing gun purchasers of said duty? Not a question for me to decide, but it’s certainly sticky.

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Colorado Red Flag Challenge

Rocky Mountain Gun Owners, a Colorado gun rights group, challenged Colorado’s red flag law in May. This week, Governor Jared Polis moved to dismiss the lawsuit. The motion makes a host of legal/technical arguments and the typical pleas that the judiciary not intervene in the realm of the legislature. Despite ruling what is and is not legal being the judiciary’s whole job, and all.

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First 2A Sanctuary in CA

The somewhat hilariously named town of Needles, California has declared itself a Second Amendment sanctuary. Needles is a quiet desert town in the southeast part of the state on the Arizona border. Now it’s the first municipality in the eminently anti-gun state to take this type of action.

Gun sanctuary cities basically assert that the city will not use any resources to prosecute simple weapons possession offenses, and in some cases attempt to preempt state or federal law. The latter types tend to have little effect, but being able to feel comfortable with the local authorities gives a lot of breathing room to gun owners.

It was a kin to “not being able to not watch a serious accident.” Just couldn’t not watch….like the clowns coming out of the circus VW. All that was missing were the red rubber noses. Que the clowns. Bring in the clowns!!!

The only thing 2 nights worth of insane bozos and bozoettes proved is that the only thing that can defeat Trump is voter fraud and he’s well aware of that. Lots will happen between now and the elections anyway.

The only reason these fascists feel enpowered to publicly call for outright confiscation is that they think the pro-2A side is all talk and they have no personal fear of trashing the Bill Of Rights. So far they are 100% correct.

Your showing your age. Most of today’s generations that came later do not know who he even was. I do remember this nut case, he said he salivated on pushing the nuclear button as soon as he became president. The famous political add they unfortunately only ran one time showed a little innocent 6 year old girl picking flowers in a field when all of a sudden she was incinerated by an atomic bomb blast which would have happened in real life if this nut case had every been elected president. Can you image what he would have done during the Vietnam war, we would have had a 3 way nuclear war with Russia, China and the U.S. The American people saw right through him and he went down in flames as a dangerous Right Wing War Mongering Nuclear Maniac.

Your showing your age. Most of today’s generations that came later do not know who he even was. I do remember this nut case, he said he salivated on pushing the nuclear button as soon as he became president. The famous political add they unfortunately only ran one time showed a little innocent 6 year old girl picking flowers in a field when all of a sudden she was incinerated by an atomic bomb blast which would have happened in real life if this nut case had every been elected president. Can you image what he would have done during the Vietnam war, we would have had a 3 way nuclear war with Russia, China and the U.S. The American people saw right through him and he went down in flames as a dangerous Right Wing War Mongering Nuclear Maniac.

Yes that is the one but during the election they forced the Dem’s to take it off the air and it was decades before the advent of the PC that then made it possible once again to see this political commercial.

“Yes that is the one but during the election they forced the Dem’s to take it off the air…”

*Wrong*, ‘Vlad. No one ‘forced’ them to take it down. The Johnson campaign took it down themselves, no one told them to do it.

“The ad was immediately pulled, but the point was made, appearing on the nightly news and on conversation programs in its entirety. Jack Valenti, who served as a special assistant to Johnson, later suggested that pulling the ad was a calculated move, arguing that “it showed a certain gallantry on the part of the Johnson campaign to withdraw the ad.””

“”””””””””””””””””””””What’s *hilarious* is that you actually believe your own bullshit…+++++++++++++++++

The only thing hilarious is the fact that you obviously flunked history classes. The only real laughter is being directed at you.

Washington’s incompetence led to the French & Indian War with the British. Washington’s incompetence accidentally killed a French Envoy that was sent to negotiate with the British over their dispute.

Washington’s incompetence ended up causing his men to loose not one but two battles one of which he recommended splitting the British forces which got the men Washington was in command of all slaughtered. Washington resigned not once but twice and both times in utter disgrace.

Washington wanted a British Generalship but the British laughed at him and called him a “Colonial” (equivalent of calling some one an ignorant hill billy in today’s terms). The British were correct. Washington was so incompetent that during the Revolutionary War he lost more battles than he won and was almost captured twice.

Washington was so incompetent he had to hire a German Mercenary General to properly train his troops. If it had not been for the French stepping into the war and spending in today’s money millions of French Francs Washington would have been defeated by the British easily and if the British had listened to King George and not ended the war early the French who were now bankrupt would have been forced to withdraw from the war because of the potato famine at home and the British would have had the pleasure of hanging Washington which would have been the best thing to have ever happened for the American people.

I might add Washington was miles away from the last battle of the Revolutionary War as he was home getting drunked up and screwing his old lady while his men miles and miles away sat around with their eyes wide and mouths wide open while the professional French Siege Forces stormed the fort Cornwallis was holed up in and forced his surrender because the French Fleet had run off the British Fleet which deprived Cornwallis of arms and food.

I might add the British were so disdainful of the rag tag hill jack American Army that when they marched out of the fort to surrender they seemed to look right through the American Army as if they were not even there and only glared at the profession French Army as they lay down there weapons. I would have given anything to see the look on the face of Washington at the final surrender because he was so arrogant and a complete megalomaniac that he thought that he was Gods gift to the world as most incompetent men often do (read that also Donald Trump, the two could not be more alike)

I might add as a post script that Washington was a weak leader as well. He ended up fucking and losing his most valuable General who was Benedict Arnold, a General so professional the British were terrified of him and when Washington failed to get the greed monger merchants who had stared the war over blind greed to pay Arnold what the government owed him Arnold went over to the British side who upheld their promises and Arnold laughed all the way to the bank and sailed away to England and to a real civilized nation. His two sons also became British Military men as well. Arnold could not have made a better military and financial move during the war.

I might add Washington stabbed the man in the back that was most responsible for drumming up enthusiasm for the split with the British and that was Thomas Paine who Washington refused to help when he was imprisoned by the French in France and Paine came very close to losing his life. Paine when he got out of the French prison should have then paid Washington a surprise visit back in the U.S. and then put a bullet in Washington’s head. Like Hitler Washington seemed to lead a charmed life, the bastard should have gotten his incompetent self killed many times over.

to ING
”””””””””””””””””Why have you not moved to the UK yet, Vlad? This is an honest question, btw.

If you hate everything about this place so much, from George Washington onward, what keeps you here?””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””’

Only a coward runs from the battle to win a war and that is to make the U.S. a civilized country with social programs the entire rest of the Industrialized world has been enjoying for decades. The problem stems from the fact that we have an educational system on the elementary and secondary level that has too long been controlled by the Militaristic jack booted Far Right that has brainwashed the children that do not go on to higher education into believing the stiff armed jack booted propaganda that they are the Master Race and have every right to not only dominate the rest of the world but in the process bankrupt the country to the point where the U.S. population is now living in poverty and without even the basic human right of medical care. Only by educating the younger generations can we ever hope to overthrow the present Representative and thoroughly corrupt Government that was founded for the filthy rich and by the filthy rich and was designed to make the people think they have a democratic system which they do not and never have had.

Thing its, I LOVE the American heritage, especially its nature as a constitutional representative republic. My ancestors came here because they loved it too. It’s not perfect, but nothing is. This country is a great experiment that isn’t over yet, not by a long shot, and I’ll fight with everything I have to prevent it from deteriorating into something it was never meant to be.

If you want full-on socialism, I urge you to go elsewhere. The world is your oyster. But there’s only one USA; if you have your way here, I and a *lot* of people like me will have nowhere else to go and nothing left to lose. I’m afraid the course you and yours would set is going to end very badly for everyone.

So, at this point, I assume you’re basically unable to achieve sexual arousal without imagining the mass-murders of those you disagree with, Vlad? Because it seems like you enjoy the idea a little *too* much…

George Washington was so incompetent he defeated the the British Army, at the time arguably the greatest army ever at the time. This deprived Britain of the most valuable colony the world has ever known and allowing the people therein to govern themselves, free of the tyranny of kings. You can argue that his tactics and leadership was lacking. What you can’t argue with are the results. So I’ll just drop the mike right here!!!

The thing about the democrats is this: Even if they lose and the people tell them their gun platform is what caused them to lose, they won’t stop. They don’t care and will just have our schools and media spew out more propaganda. They will scream, cry, stomp their feet, and suck on pacifiers. When they do finally win an election, and they have admitted this, they will find ways to punish people for not voting for them. They’re haughty evil vile people who always seem to get their way. They want to rule over us from ivory towers because they honestly believe they know what’s best for everyone else.

Clearly the law giving “gun violence” crime stronger penalties is discriminatory against women and old men. If we shoot someone in self defense and the prosecutor charges us with a “gun crime” we’re cooked. There’s no way we can defend ourselves with fists, and that goes for 95% of the women out there. (100% of the old ladies) The DA is interested in his career, not you.

“””””””””””””””””””””””” Pete Buttigeg creatively suggested that if guns made Americans safer, then America “would be the safest country on Earth.”””””””””””””””””””

Boy that pulled the rug of NRA propaganda right out from under their feet in reference to the statement that we have not yet reached the “gun saturation point” that will hail the coming of the gun nirvana Utopian State.

Fact. Universal background checks would keep tens of thousands of second hand guns out of the hands of nut cases and criminals. The Brady Bill which only vets new gun purchases has already proven how many people it has caught each year trying to buy a new gun that were prohibited from owning a gun. That is fact and the Far Right can lie all they want but the studies prove this beyond all doubt.

I am surprised there was so little said, if anything, about safe storage laws which again would make it far more difficult for crooks to simply walk into a home or gun store and walk off with arm loads of weapons as well as lower the average of 1,300 children’s deaths from accidental shootings. Again a fact proven by studies.

Failure to do anything eventually results in confiscation of just about everything.

AND THE OHIO LAW IS BEING MISREPRESENTED HERE. You are only required to retreat when out on the street (not in the home or car) which was designed to keep hot heads from shooting it out Dodge City style over parking spaces or a persons dog pissing on your shoe.

The Texas “incident” shows why gun crime should be treated differently. Several years ago Two black men broke into a house while no one was home. A red neck gun totting nut case did call the police and was told to “stand down” as the police were on the way. Instead this nut case appointed himself judge, jury and executioner and he knew that in Texas its always been open season on black people and that he could kill people in cold blood and get away with it because of the laws in Texas that consider human life expendable in a variety of ways. So our local Red Neck Maniac sneaks up to the house (which is not his) and blasts the two men as they come out of the house and gets off scot free and is not even charged with man slaughter. Now you know why gun crimes should be treated far differently as each tends to be unique and no one blanket law covers every shooting occurrence. IF THIS HAD HAPPENED IN OHIO our Red Neck homicidal Texas maniac would have been headed for a long, long stay in prison.

How about some names, dates, police reports, or even newspaper articles to back up your story about the Texas shooting? After you’ve been caught lying about multiple deaths by the Ohio freeway shooter, we have to take anything you say with a pallet full of salt licks.

Are anyone naive enough to believe that a universal background check will stop black market buyers? Theft and straw purchases are the majority sources of criminals’ guns.

If you had bothered to read my posts about safe storage and vetting of all gun purchases you would not have asked that question. No law is perfect but your philosophy is to do nothing. If we followed your philosophy why have laws against murder, rape and theft, none of these laws keep people from committing crimes 100 per cent but the bulk of the population do indeed obey these laws. The problem with guns is we do not have these basic laws that all industrialized nations have had for decades and their success and our failure prove we need them badly. History is not on your side.

They exceeded my expectations, who would have thought that many would raise their hands to vote for canceling people’s health insurance? And Bern keeping yelling “everybodies taxes will go up”. If people go for that we’ve lost and they will deserve every lousy thing that happens to them. But we can’t let that happen for the only way to change things if it does is bullets.

“””””””””””””””””””””””But we can’t let that happen for the only way to change things if it does is bullets””””””””””””””””””””””””””

Your bullets will not do much against Helicopter gun ships with rockets coming down your throat, we Socialists are looking forward to it. Obey the new Regime Comrade “or else” and you Goose Stepping Jack Booted Storm Troopers already know what “or else” means because you will now be on the receiving end for a change.

What is this comedy hour? All your jack booted socialist friends are spending way to much time in safe spaces or trying to figure out their gender to get to the correct bathroom. You expect me to believe a single one of them would pick up a weapon and go against real men and women in a firefight? The thought of it makes me laugh.
Helicopter gunships? Are they bringing the nukes too?

“”””””””””””””””””What is this comedy hour? All your jack booted socialist friends are spending way to much time in safe spaces or trying to figure out their gender to get to the correct bathroom. You expect me to believe a single one of them would pick up a weapon and go against real men and women in a firefight? The thought of it makes me laugh.
Helicopter gunships? Are they bringing the nukes too?””””””””””””””””

No we Socialists will not have to do a damn thing. We will be sitting at our computers or TV’s and watching the Socialist Government do it. Jack Booted military men do what they are told to do, their brainwashing in training is designed to eliminate any conscious thought or reasoning. Its no accident the military uses people less than 20 years old to do the fighting. Its not only that they physically can to the job but science has discovered what nefarious Sadists in the Military have know for years and that is that young men’s minds are not fully mature and only fully developed until after age twenty and often a few years beyond that. Its only years later when they have matured do they realize the mass killings they committed start to bother them.

Uh-oh, everybody! Vlad’s gonna nuke us all just like Swalwell! We’d better do as he says…

Vlad, there’s a better than 50/50 chance enough of the military would attempt a coup to deep-fry your precious attack helicopters and other implements you’d have soldiers use to second-hand murder us, not to mention the politicians giving the orders.

You will need a military all pulling together for gunships and tanks and such to fight. Does not take to many service members faithful to their oath of service to pull the plug on the big toys. Also, you’re betting those crew members would pull the trigger. Most will not.

I don’t think Vlad realizes the differences between Socialist armies and western armies.

Socialist armies, such the Red Army and later Soviet Army, and the Chinese People’s Liberation Army are (or were) military sections of the ruling political parties.

Western armies are more true people’s armies made up of citizens who have volunteered their service. Such armies are not political and pledge allegiance to protect the people, country, and constitution.

“””””””””””””””””””””””””””I don’t think Vlad realizes the differences between Socialist armies and western armies.

Socialist armies, such the Red Army and later Soviet Army, and the Chinese People’s Liberation Army are (or were) military sections of the ruling political parties.

Western armies are more true people’s armies made up of citizens who have volunteered their service. Such armies are not political and pledge allegiance to protect the people, country, and constitution.””””””””””””””””””””””””””””

To Southern Cross.

You had better go back to school and study history. During the Chinese Revolution at the end of WWII the bulk of the soldiers had followed Mao Zedong willingly because he promised and gave land reform. They were not forced to fight either the Japanese or Kai-shek’s Nationalists forces.

I might add that during the Vietnam War the bulk of U.S. troops were drafted against their will and forced to fight in the War

As you can see making a Generalization about Western and Eastern Armies is fraught with inaccuracies.

Vlad, the people volunteered for the communists because they were considered the least worst option. The Nationalists were known to be corrupt and inept but they had the biggest army. Although the various warlords were more interested in protecting their own interests. They had some elite units trained and equipped by the Germans but most of their army was lacking training, equipment (especially machine guns and artillery), transport, and air power.

The Japanese were just brutal and inflicted the “three alls” at any resistance (kill all, burn all, destroy all). And Unit 731 committed atrocities that made the worst of the Nazis look mild. One reason why even today relations between Japan and China are at best frosty. While outnumbered the Japanese had armor, artillery, and air power which made them the mostly dominant force until they over-extended themselves.

The Communists were promising land reform (later collectivized) and a more equitable society. Certainly better than the other two options. But in the end anything bourgeois was destroyed, anyone considered bourgeois was killed. And the country then had to endure Mao’s agricultural policies which resulted in famine, Mao’s great leap forward with domestic steel production where useful tools and machinery were tuned into useless scrap, and the disaster of the Cultural Revolution which nearly ended in complete civil war.

It must be amazing to see the world through the rose-colored glasses of Marxist rhetoric. See the mini-series Chernobyl for an accurate view of the Soviet Union and Communism in general. A system built on lies and self-delusion.

“….The Texas “incident” shows why gun crime should be treated differently. Several years ago Two black men broke into a house while no one was home. A red neck gun totting nut case did call the police and was told to “stand down”……”

Dispatch can no more give ‘ORDERS’ than LEO’s can. They can give instructions, recommendations, even suggestions. NO ONE orders an American citizen, unless the person is under the UCMJ.

You have no right to execute people for stealing nor to gun them down without even a trial.

Yes in Texas we expected this Right Wing Nut Case would go free but when was Texas ever considered a civilized State. Yes he got away with it as expected but for years White Racists lynched minorities and they all were not black either and in most cases got away with it legally. When people like you condone such actions it only shows how primitive and uncivilized many U.S. States still are. But then again what country in the world puts up with the mass slaughter of its own children in schools on a weekly basis. To say we live in a civilized country is to insult ones intelligence. To say many Americans descended from the Neanderthals would be a insult to the Neanderthals.

Nice thing about the Democrat party today is it doesn’t matter who the bosses select for the job you know they are all the same. Makes voting for Rs easier if not downright proper. Now if only Rs would not sell us out from time to time.

Both nights of the so-called Democrat debates were typical clown posse circuses with the, again, so-called moderator doing most of the talking. Nothing new, nothing surprising. Just a bunch of Liberal wanna-be’s talking a lot and saying nothing.

Kentucky Senate Bill 150 allows concealed carry in the state without a license. KY Senate Bill 150 included concealed weapons of all types not just pistols, which has been the underlining push for Constitutional Carry. Kentucky did do it right. Kentucky was already an open carry and open vehicle carry state. Most states do not address open vehicle carry at all. No other states, but a few others like Texas, seem to even want to address open vehicle carry like Kentucky has for a residence of the state.

Thank God for those States identifying with the 2nd Amendment. This whole Nation will be following in their footsteps after realizing that this nation is succumbing to Socialism, Sad and Scary. People need to wake up to realize where socialism will bring us. Russia comes to mind.. We are smarter than they are and still have the election process to keep mus the #1 Nation in this whole world. I was a county commissioner as a Dem and after seeing where that party was going, I am now a Independent leaning to the conservative side. I was probably more conservative leaning when in office than most commissioners are in office today. Small county in Idaho. Ready to move on bcuz of the stupidity with the idiots in office now.

The press and anti-gun crowd has made every rifle an “assault weapon”. The general public doesn’t know the difference.AR-15s are not assault weapons.
True they are usually the mass shooters weapon of choice. If these demwits do take the 15s it’s not going to solve the problem. There will always be evil people finding a way to do evil things. It’s an emotional ploy to get votes. It will hopefully backfire come-election day. I think voter fraud is one of the issues they should be addressing. What about the opioid deaths. Far higher than gun violence.They don’t noting that up because they can win election with voter fraud. The opioid deaths are not emotional enough.
In a active shooter film at work there was a guy with a sawed of pump shot gun. Almost everyone in the room thought it was an AR-15”assault weapon”. Thankfully some in the room new the difference and was able to get across to the “uneducated “ the difference.
In closing; I won’t vote for any Democrat.

The democrats will ensure you can masturbate and perform other sex acts in public. And in front of other people’s children. They will make its legal to shoot up crystal meth, in public, to improve your sexual experience.

They will close gun stores and replace them with “free Marijuana” clinics. Your public display of sex toys will be protected. If you have children, they won’t be educated in their civil rights.

But they will be educated in everything sexual. And their teachers will be disarmed.