I don't know if there's any specific stories Arioch might tell about words included or not, but if I recall correctly the software he used to originally create the lexicon had a core vocabulary of words that you would expect to find in any human culture, which it generated trade words for based on rules he defined. It's my understanding there's a bigger list of 'confirmed' words on Arioch's hard drive, but turning them into the pretty table format for the website takes work.

That's probably something that could be scripted relatively easily, too, come to think of it...

However, I've noticed that the information regarding the Loroi trade is rather limited, with there only being three pages. Whilst the Lexicon is quite varied (I see you even have "vagina" in that list lol), it is still missing various words such as "my", "your", "toy", "with", "insert", "enter" ect.

Is there a much more extensive file regarding Loroi words and what they translate to? And would you be willing to share it? I'm very curious.

Also now that I think about it, why did you put "vagina" in the short lexicon page? And why is "penis", "testicles", "anus" and "tits" not included?

Yes, there is a larger source lexicon from which the smaller "official" lexicon is drawn.

Trade language was created by coming up with a modest set of example words (mostly proper nouns like Loroi, Deinar, Erebas, Taben, Perrein, Eilis, etc.) and then breaking them into phonemes and word rules, which were used to dynamically generate a random list of words. This list was imported into a spreadsheet containing a lexicon of English words, assigning a random word to each. Then I went through the list by hand and massaged and rearranged the words to try to make it seem more like a natural language, so that words with the same word-cell have similar meanings. etc. This last step is essentially an infinite time sink, and so it's never really finished. When a new word is called for, I check to see if there's an existing entry in this source lexicon, and I check it to make sure it makes sense within the context of similar words, and then I mark it as verified. It looks like this:

Unfortunately, I don't always remember to properly mark a word when it's verified, so when I do a dump of verified words for the official lexicon on the web site, some words are inevitably left out. The reason why the word for vagina (rishiri) is in the official lexicon and the word for penis (mizat) isn't is just because the former was marked as verified and the latter never was. (I'm not sure why the former was marked; I'm guessing someone asked me specifically.) So there are still many words missing from the official lexicon, and similarly the grammar rules include only those things I have bothered to work out, and there are still parts of speech that are missing.

It would not be appropriate to release the source lexicon, because most of the words in it are not verified; they're randomly assigned phonemes which might be duplicate or nonsensical or contradictory or otherwise inappropriate when compared to the "official" part of the lexicon. As you can see in the above excerpt, "soybean" and "harpy" don't even belong in an alien lexicon.

Dorfington wrote:

As well as examples for various elements of grammar such as a possessive suffex ('s). How would you say "The hunter's spear" for example? Would it be "-insert Loroi word for "the"- talas' rezai"?

You can use the preposition mi ("of") to indicate possessive, and sopis ("this") to make it demonstrative.talas rezai "hunter spear; hunting spear"talas mi rezai "hunter's spear; spear of hunter"sopis talas mi rezai "spear of this hunter"talas mi sopis rezai "this spear of a hunter"

Judging from the sources you've provided on the insider segments, I believe "Un-shielded" translates to "Sa-leideras", correct?

Leiler ("shield") is a noun, so I don't think you can just conjugate it like a verb. Sal-leiler means "not-shield", which implies some sort of anti-shield. Better options might be:sallan leiler "no shields"leiler sena "without shields"sal-morridas "unprotected" (morri- "protect, defend")

And yeah, I had to pull morri out of the unofficial lexicon. Such is the lot of an artificial language; a word doesn't really exist until someone tries to use it.

To be fair to the word Harpy, there is a word for Mermaid. With three planets to draw from there's probably a word that's "like that other thing, but a bird" in there somewhere, or if not that then some kind of decal. Mythologies have enough birdmen that you can assume any culture with a lot of avians will probably have equivalents. If there's an animal people will compare it's qualities to there, and visual representations probably will follow soon after.

Thu Jan 25, 2018 9:20 pm

Dorfington

Joined: Mon Jun 12, 2017 11:01 amPosts: 37

Re: WIP Discussion (Part 1!)

Thank you for the answers. I didn't expect to get a response so soon.

That image! It is like a glimpse into heaven, however flawed and unpolished it may be.

Arioch wrote:

You can use the preposition mi ("of") to indicate possessive, and sopis ("this") to make it demonstrative.talas rezai "hunter spear; hunting spear"talas mi rezai "hunter's spear; spear of hunter"sopis talas mi rezai "spear of this hunter"talas mi sopis rezai "this spear of a hunter"

Thank you for the clarification, though I fear your answer has only generated more questions. There are still some missing words such as "my", "with" (I assume it is "sen" as "without" is listed as "Sena") and "your". For example, how would I say;

"I bend down towards my toy and pick it up with my hands."

"You insert your key into the lock and open the door."

"They fell down the big hole".

"I would like to try a different activity"

"It's getting a little sexual in here"

"Do you regret answering me yet?"

Arioch wrote:

And yeah, I had to pull morri out of the unofficial lexicon. Such is the lot of an artificial language; a word doesn't really exist until someone tries to use it.

Do you happen to update the lexicon page every time you verify a new word?

Arioch wrote:

The reason why the word for vagina (rishiri) is in the official lexicon and the word for penis (mizat) isn't is just because the former was marked as verified and the latter never was. (I'm not sure why the former was marked; I'm guessing someone asked me specifically.)

Someone asked you for that word specifically? Haha, what a weirdo ...

... so what is "anus" in Loroi?

Fri Jan 26, 2018 3:47 am

Arioch

Site Admin

Joined: Fri Mar 04, 2011 9:19 pmPosts: 2948Location: San Jose, CA

Re: WIP Discussion (Part 1!)

Dorfington wrote:

There are still some missing words such as "my", "with" (I assume it is "sen" as "without" is listed as "Sena") and "your".

Trade doesn't have possessive pronouns; you just apply the possessive modifier as normal: "my" and "your" would be tezair mi and lozen mi.

"With" in the sense of the preposition "accompanied by, including" is pazed, but in the sense of the verb "use or utilize" is neimo.

Not exactly, but I will decline to translate the rest unless you have a specific need for those translations.

Dorfington wrote:

Do you happen to update the lexicon page every time you verify a new word?

No. Because of the dual-column nature of the table on that page, individual insertions are problematic, and re-exporting the entire lexicon takes significant effort. I suppose there are things I could do to automate it... but that's a task for another time.

No. Because of the dual-column nature of the table on that page, individual insertions are problematic, and re-exporting the entire lexicon takes significant effort. I suppose there are things I could do to automate it... but that's a task for another time.

Perhaps a single, three- or four-column table, with (from left to right) the word transliterated, its English translation, the part of speech, and maybe the word in the Trade script, if making a webfont isn't too difficult?

Looks like someone's in a hurry. The question is: are they hurrying to a rendezvous or not.

Mon Feb 19, 2018 12:15 pm

discord

Joined: Thu Mar 24, 2011 12:44 amPosts: 614Location: Umeå, Sweden

Re: WIP Discussion (Part 1!)

my guess is towards the sound of the guns, seems like the loroi way.... which will be annoying for our heroes.

Mon Feb 19, 2018 2:08 pm

inxsi

Joined: Mon Feb 05, 2018 2:29 pmPosts: 28

Re: WIP Discussion (Part 1!)

Very nice. No idea what it's doing, but it looks great. Also:

Narrator wrote:

Behold, a young Loroi frigate in its habitat. Cast out from the protection of its herd, it must venture forth to find a new group of peers that it can join. But lone ships are easy prey for various space predators - what experiences will this ship find as it seeks out members of its own kind? Tune in next time to Wild Space, the space life documentary.

Mon Feb 19, 2018 2:27 pm

Turrosh Mak

Joined: Fri Mar 16, 2012 10:14 amPosts: 78

Re: WIP Discussion (Part 1!)

inxsi wrote:

Very nice. No idea what it's doing, but it looks great. Also:

Narrator wrote:

Behold, a young Loroi frigate in its habitat. Cast out from the protection of its herd, it must venture forth to find a new group of peers that it can join. But lone ships are easy prey for various space predators - what experiences will this ship find as it seeks out members of its own kind? Tune in next time to Wild Space, the space life documentary.

"Jim is going to go poke it with a stick while I film the results from inside this concrete enclosure. Ready when you are, Jim."

I wish I knew how you make such clean and precise lines, Arioch. Usually when I try to replicate the effect, I end up fighting my tablet and redoing the same line repeatedly until I get it right. Maybe I need to start learning how to use a vector art program that was written in the last decade. Although these don't really look like vectors. The Black Razor is a beauty, though. No doubt about it.

I did have to go back through and check the ship classes being used, although I'm sure I must have done it before and just forgotten. The exchange between Ashrain and Moonglow in chapter 1 is even more interesting considering that the Katana is supposed to have less firepower than the Vanguard. But even if it has less firepower, the Black Razor definitely has a sleeker silhouette.

Also, if I recall correctly, Arclight's Torrent is a Scimitar Mk.3, which is noticeably smaller than the other two, but Arclight has been on the ball calling out events as they happen. 3 out of 4 times, if I'm counting right. (Which is awesome, go Torrent!)

Wed Mar 07, 2018 11:38 pm

Arioch

Site Admin

Joined: Fri Mar 04, 2011 9:19 pmPosts: 2948Location: San Jose, CA

Re: WIP Discussion (Part 1!)

icekatze wrote:

I wish I knew how you make such clean and precise lines, Arioch. Usually when I try to replicate the effect, I end up fighting my tablet and redoing the same line repeatedly until I get it right. Maybe I need to start learning how to use a vector art program that was written in the last decade. Although these don't really look like vectors.

It's mainly that I ink at a much larger size than the final product. The pages are colored at twice the web display size, and most of the linework is done at 150% of that size. The source line for this panel looks like this:

I work with the stylus in my right hand and my left hand on the keyboard, to quickly switch tools and hit ctrl-Z (undo) a lot. I use the eraser tool a lot to make lines finer when that's needed. I also do rotate the canvas sometimes when doing long lines (I find them easier to do when vertical), which the newer versions of Photoshop let you do (R key).

icekatze wrote:

Also, if I recall correctly, Arclight's Torrent is a Scimitar Mk.3, which is noticeably smaller than the other two, but Arclight has been on the ball calling out events as they happen. 3 out of 4 times, if I'm counting right. (Which is awesome, go Torrent!)

During the battle at Naam, Arclight was leading the center squadron (the squadron that has Tempest itself in), and so she's kind of like the first sergeant of the strike group. After Winter Tide went down, Arclight took over the van squadron, so in the Leido action she's sort of filling both roles.

Nice boat I love how detailed you make them, Arioch, one can almost see the weld seams and rivets

What class is this - Katana class battlecruiser? Been staring at the "ship identifier" page for a while now and the Katana looks most similar, although the bow looks different, longer than in the identifier. And, sorry, I can't read Loroi - what's her name?

Thanks for the details! I still use my old copy of Photoshop 7.0 (2002) since that's the one I purchased legit, but I've been trying to get the hang of some less expensive alternatives like Clipstudio or Krita, and the ability to rotate the canvas is one of the big reasons why. I'll have to give it another try sometime soon.

entity2636 wrote:

What class is this - Katana class battlecruiser?

I'm pretty sure that this is Ashrain's Katana class "Black Razor," based on the markings in black and white on the striped part.

Also, I suspect you can read "loroi," because that's exactly what the text on the hull says, you just didn't even know it! (The writing under the pylon isn't clear enough for me to distinguish individual characters.)

Thu Mar 08, 2018 10:42 am

entity2636

Joined: Fri Jan 12, 2018 4:53 amPosts: 324

Re: WIP Discussion (Part 1!)

icekatze wrote:

I'm pretty sure that this is Ashrain's Katana class "Black Razor," based on the markings in black and white on the striped part.

Also, I suspect you can read "loroi," because that's exactly what the text on the hull says, you just didn't even know it! (The writing under the pylon isn't clear enough for me to distinguish individual characters.)

Turns out I can indeed read Loroi How typical of me - saw the Loroi insignia and text next to it in Loroi script, assumed it's the ship's name

Thu Mar 08, 2018 12:18 pm

GeoModder

Joined: Mon Mar 21, 2011 11:31 amPosts: 747

Re: WIP Discussion (Part 1!)

Now I wonder if Tsunami will get an independent mission as well, away from Tempest.Her bay doors seems open though.

My first thought is, "Hey! A nice unobstructed view of the engine nozzle details, I think this is the first time we've had the chance." I was not expecting the long vertical slats, but in a way that makes sense, considering the super-science engines on the Highland are long slats.

I'm really curious to see more of Moonglow's personality. She hasn't had much of a chance to distinguish herself outside of being Ashrain's friendly-rival, and maybe that she's a little more cautious of a captain. Maybe.