North Korea says nuclear test successful

Originally posted by g60kg
Im no political expert but why should Korea listen to the UN and not test nuclear weapons when countries like America can go to war against the UN's
wishes (Afghanistan)?????

also why is one country allowed to have nuclear capabilities and another not?

I doesn't need to listen to anybody, but it will literally implode if the neighbouring countries cut off aid, fuel, food etc..
if that happens they'll be forced to sell such means to terror groups in order to make up for the loss of input.
Very very grave situation indeed.
For this purpose alone I hope everybody doesn't go slapping on sanctions..

The international community says NK can't have nukes. The NPT says they can't have nukes. Pretty much everyone in the free world says they can't
have nukes. Why are you so different?

Well the 'free world' didnt want the US going to war but thats where the 'free world' stops being the free world

Now then. Let me start with a disclaimer. I don't condone any nuclear weapons tests, or anyone having nukes at all.

But....the following countries have nuclear weapons.

US
UK
France
China
Russia
Israel
India
Pakistan

All of whom - with the exception of China - oddly - have been involved in direct military action against other countries in the past 20 years, let
alone in the past 50.

The Korean war was fought between 1950-53.

North Korea, although it talks alot, hasn't been involved in a damn thing since the Korean War.

Now I know the perception of the US posters, and a few others here, is that the NK's are nuts - and they may well be - but the facts speak for
themselves here. The latest member of the nuclear club just happens to have, ironically, the most peaceful credentials out of the lot of them, based
on the past 50 years.

No more details at the moment. Does anyone have any info on the T-4 aircraft they are talking about? I did a search and could only find details of a
T-4 bomber, not the sort of plane you'd expect to monitor radiation levels.

North Korea is in no threat from an invasion, by the U.S. or U.N. or any other group.

As long as it is safely under the auspices of a Chinese nuclear umbrella, no one will be willing to stop Kim Jong Il from his nuclear wet dreams. And
it's really too bad. Here's a man who has spent multimillions on his nuclear program (which, by the way, can't even manage to launch an ICBM
successfully without it self-destructing barely 1/4 of the way over the Pacific) while his people suffer from mass famines, extreme poverty and poor
to practically no education.

Say what you will about the tyranny of Saddam; there are leaders in this world a million times worse that unfortunately will go perpetually
unchallenged because a larger nuclear power has its protective aura over it.

Has Rummy's madcap dictator arming resulted in a blowback that undermines the Neo-Con war machine?

North Korea's underground atomic weapon test is a wild card that could potentially derail the Neo-Con battle plan to carry out air strikes on Iran.
Will the myopic hubris of the Bushists make them blind to the incompatability of selling a war on a nation years away from nukes while another openly
proliferates, or could it just make the likelihood of a false flag terror attack more likely?

Reports concerning developments in North Korea's nuclear program are routinely absent the
"memory-holed" fact that it was Donald Rumsfeld, former non-executive
director of ABB, that signed off on a $200 million dollar contract to sell nuclear reactors to the Stalinist state in November 2000. Has Rumsfeld's
wanton act of chaos-mongering resulted in a form of blowback that could eviserate the entire roadmap of his administration?

"It will be hard for Bush to sell an invasion of Iran because it might someday make nuclear weapons when North Korea definitely has them now. Bush
has to attack North Korea before Iran, and who will support an attack on a nation that actually HAS nuclear weapons of mass
destruction."

And the last Quote true it is.

Who would attack a Country WITH Weapons of mass Destruction?

That is precisly why Iraq was attacked - because it did not have any WMD's; if Saddam would have WMD's, the US & the Coalition would never go
there.

Originally posted by CX
No more details at the moment. Does anyone have any info on the T-4 aircraft they are talking about? I did a search and could only find details of a
T-4 bomber, not the sort of plane you'd expect to monitor radiation levels.

T-4 ("100") ATTACK
RECONNAISSANCE AIRCRAFT
(PRELIMINARY DESIGN)

"The T-4 supersonic reconnaissance and attack weapons system (production code "100") was intended to search for and destroy large surface targets
such as aircraft carriers and missile carrying ships as well as for reconnaissance. This concept arose in the early sixties. Primary design emphasis
was on the development of an airframe capable of long range flight at three times the speed of sound.

In addition to its main mission, the preliminary design described the T-4 as:

- a reconnaissance aircraft;

- a long-range interceptor weapons system;

- a supersonic passenger aircraft.

It was planned that the aircraft, with a takeoff weight of 220,000-243,000 lb (100,000-110,000 kg), would be capable of a 3,728 mi (6,000 km) range,
at 66,000-79,000 ft (20,000-24,000 m) altitude, without external tanks, at a speed 1,864-1,988 mph (3,000-3,200 km/h). In April 1963, the preliminary
design was completed and was presented to the VVS and the State Aircraft Technique Committee.

By order of the Deputy Commanderin-Chief of the VVS, a special commission was created and it studied the project from May 23 until June 3 of 1963.
This commission concluded that the T-4 long range supersonic aircraft, suggested by the Sukhoi Design Bureau, satisfied the VVS requirements and would
outperform other aircraft of its type in flight performance, armament and avionics capabilities. The commission further commented that the results of
the research work on the attackreconnaissance aircraft, powered by two R-15BF-300 or RD17-15 turbojets, corresponded to the specified requirements of
the standard Soviet preliminary design phase and could be considered as a base for building a mockup and for further fullscale development work. By
the end of 1963, based on the positive conclusion of the commission, the T-4 project received a further go ahead in the form of a Communist Party
Central Committee and Council of Ministers resolution. Flight testing was to begin in 1968.

Many Soviet aerospace scientific organizations of the State Aircraft Technique Committee were involved in the design work along with the Sukhoi Design
Bureau. The main plan was developed and design work was coordinated by the end of 1963 and the preliminary design was completed in 1964.

Originally posted by XphilesPhan
However, those who are more knowledgeable on the subject will realise that NK has once again proved themselves incompetant.

Not really, like you said:

Originally posted by XphilesPhan
of course the average layman wouldnt know the difference between 500 kilotons and a megaton so it wouldnt matter. mission accomplished as far as
propaganda goes.

Why play all your cards at once? If he can successfully detonate a small yield nuke I am sure he can field one at least the size of those that creamed
Japan. Also a small yield means less radioactive waste in your backyard, less danger in testing.

Originally posted by XphilesPhan
However, those who are more knowledgeable on the subject will realise that NK has once again proved themselves incompetant.

Well, us laymen that don't know anything since we're buried in propaganda at least realize that a nuclear bomb can still kill people, and it's a
bad sign. I think this is one of those times when we can all agree that it's not all about size. It's the fact that they have now tested a nuke. Big
booms are worse, but radiation is radiation. I doubt someone watching a nuclear missile coming towards them is going to think "oh, it's just a 1
kiloton missile, back to work."

Another big wumpin failure for Bushes foreign policy. Its what happens when you get ideologues making policy, they get blindsided by their own
rhetoric. It should be obvious by now, in todays world a unilateral policy simply does not work....we need to listen, even to our opponents and work
in the context of a international community. We may be the most powerful but as the other great failure of Bushes foreign policy, the Iraq war and the
so-called war on terrorism shows going it alone simply just isn't feasible anymore.

DaFunk: I was watching that clip before I even had checked ATS this morning to discover that Lil' Kim had fired his Magic Stick.

Well, he's getting the attention he so wants. I just wish he would realize that there are consequences that come with his actions. Of course, I'm
also betting that the consequences never hit him, only the people of N. Korea. That is a shame. Sanctions aren't going to hurt Kim, he'll still be
grooming his bouffant and singing "I'm Every Woman" with Whitney while his people suffer.

This content community relies on user-generated content from our member contributors. The opinions of our members are not those of site ownership who maintains strict editorial agnosticism and simply provides a collaborative venue for free expression.