Peredhil has made 2167 posts and is a Dunedain from Osgiliath and is not online.
Posted Thursday 1st January 1970 (12:00am)

I think he would take over M-E but only after a big resistance from all the free peoples. There would be a long war but in the end it would be inevitable. Unless a young hobbit volunyeered to go to Mordor and steal it while Sauron's asleep, if he does sleep...

Eowen has made 17 posts and is from and is not online.
Posted Thursday 1st January 1970 (12:00am)

that was actually a very interesting post Peredhil, because I think that it actually might not work for a hobbit to go and steal the ring because the orcs might take watch in shifts. Anyway, I also think that Sauron may not sleep.

Valedhelgwath has made 4245 posts and is an Elf from Rivendell and is not online.
Posted Thursday 1st January 1970 (12:00am)

With the Ring, Sauron would undoubtably defeat Gondor and Rohan. The armies of the Free Peoples would be no more, except to fight an underground war against his armies. The remaining Dwarves would bolt their doors tight, as they did in the second age, and the elves would either flee Middle Earth or would go into hiding. Hobbits, too, would be enslaved if they did not go into hiding.

However, Sauron's dominion would not last forever.

As Arda will reach its true potential as Iluvatar imagined it by the End, at some stage Sauron would have to be defeated by someone in order for this to happen. If his power became too great for the free peoples to defeat alone, at some stage I'd imagine the Valar would interceed as they did against Morgoth.

MadWannabe has made 170 posts and is from and is not online.
Posted Thursday 1st January 1970 (12:00am)

Yeah, I agree Sauron's Dominance will not last long. However, I fear the Valar will not intervene this time...and I think the elves will pass to the west...because all the beautiful things that they came to Middle-Earth for would have been ruined.( In my opinion, they came for the silmarils and the beautiful things they wish to see and have a realm of their own) The Dwarves would have been conquered and destroyed...leaving only a few ragged bands of Dwarves leading a rebellion. ( IMO, Sauron hates dwarves as they cannot be corrupted and thus dominated to do his bidding...so he will just destroy them so as to elimate the threat they pose)Well...as for man, Gondor and Rohan will fall but they will fufill the role set up for them and eventually defeat Sauron ( It is said that Man will overcome evil with their great courage in the end)

Aulë has made 1232 posts and is a Dwarf from Moria and is not online.
Posted Thursday 1st January 1970 (12:00am)

Because Aul’ wasn’t present at the moment I would’ve kicked Saurons *** if that happened....Remember I am Aul’ the Smith.....I taught Saruman and Sauron art of crafting.....but they betrayed me so I would put on MY RING and open up a can off wup*** on Gorthaur

Komosot has made 72 posts and is from and is not online.
Posted Thursday 1st January 1970 (12:00am)

It's really quite simple. If Sauron was to take back what was his...."First would become last, and night would fall."As stated in the council of Elrond. That line is acutally a riddle, but figure that sentence out and you've got your answer.

Komosot has made 72 posts and is from and is not online.
Posted Thursday 1st January 1970 (12:00am)

Ok that last post was a little misleading so i'll elaborate. During the Council of Elrond the idea of "Why not give the ring to Tom Bombadil" came up. Gandalf made it clear that Tom would probably just forget about it, leaving it on the road or something along those lines. Then Gandalf goes on to say that, if Sauron indeed managed to get back the ring, "First would become Last" and "Night would fall". Well, this is just my idea, but if i was reading the book, and read that the Dark Lord got back the ring and Middle Earth was no more, i would probably out of disgust close the book in dissapointment. "First becoming Last" (Closing the book, front cover and back) "Night falling" (characters in the book seeing the book close, which would very much look like night falling to them.) There you have it....

Darous has made 887 posts and is a Dwarf from Glittering Caves and is not online.
Posted Thursday 1st January 1970 (12:00am)

If Sauron got the ring middle earth would fall into a never ending darkness. Men would fight till the end but Sauron would be ready and he would learn from his mistakes. There still alot of old and dangerous evil out there. And Sauron knows where it hides.

Katakutur has made 38 posts and is an Elf from Lothlorien and is not online.
Posted Thursday 1st January 1970 (12:00am)

I agree, if Sauron gets the ring he would do as much evil as he could do to get even with everyone that was up against him! He would start a war that would probably lead to "World War 1" in M-E. Everyone would fight with each other and millions would be killed! But that’s just what I think that might happen if Sauron gets the ring. P.S. I hope you understand what I mean and that there aren’t many spelling errors in my text, I’m not to good in English!

Peredhil has made 2167 posts and is a Dunedain from Osgiliath and is not online.
Posted Thursday 1st January 1970 (12:00am)

I don't think the ring would make too much of a difference, not to the Valar at least, who would have to step in at some point. When Morgoth and Ungoliant were running around Aman doing as much damage as possible it didn't seem to put the Valar at any great strain to defeat them, partly because Morgoth grew scared of Ungoliant, which is inevitable when two great evils come together. The same would apply to Sauron. Even though the One Ring was of his making, its power would eventually overcome him and spell his downfall in the long run.

Aulë has made 1232 posts and is a Dwarf from Moria and is not online.
Posted Thursday 1st January 1970 (12:00am)

I would say that he would take Gondor and Rohan first of all.....exterminate the race of men for GOOD....then move on to all the last elves....after that comes the dwarves....then the hobbits....and after that he would most definately go to attack Aman so he alone would rule Arda....but he would fail to do sobecause if he was to try and destroy Aman Manw’ would either kill him(if they could) or pleed to Eru Il’vatar for help....Eru would smite Sauron and cast him into the void alongside Melkor....This is MY OPINION!

Valedhelgwath has made 4245 posts and is an Elf from Rivendell and is not online.
Posted Thursday 1st January 1970 (12:00am)

Quote:I would say that he would take Gondor and Rohan first of all.....exterminate the race of men for GOOD....

Yes, he'd go for Gondor and Rohan, but I don't think he would exterminate the race of Men even if he were capable of doing so. Sauron always modelled himself on being the King of Men. He wants to dominate and enslave them rather than exterminating them.

Quote:and after that he would most definately go to attack Aman so he alone would rule Arda

I think Sauron was content to rule Middle Earth, just as Melkor had been before him, because they both knew they did not have the strength to face the combined might of the Valar. Even if Sauron was to totally conquer Middle Earth, he would not risk attacking Aman. When he encouraged the Numenorian's to do so, I don't think he ever had any ambitions of victory; he was just sending them to their deaths because they had defeated and captured him.

Quote:Eru would smite Sauron and cast him into the void alongside Melkor....

The last time anythng like this was attempted, Eru ripped the world in half, sank the kingdom of Numenor and placed Aman out of reach of any future attempts. Should Sauron ever attack Aman, he would therefore have to do it alone without his armies. Alone, he wouldn't stand a chance against most of the Valar even if he attacked them individually. Tulkas, Orome, Manwe, Aule, Ulmo and Varda would all be able to whip his butt, as too would the Maiar Eonwe.

Virumor has made 3567 posts and is a Rohirrim from Edoras and is not online.
Posted Thursday 1st January 1970 (12:00am)

If Sauron got back the Ring he would become as powerful as ever; he would have his full strength back. The Elves (and there weren't really that much of them anymore at the end of the Third Age) would leave ME or get slaughtered. Men would be conquered (Rohan, Gondor) and enslaved; later on Sauron's army would take the whole of Eriador.

So Sauron would rule the whole of ME. Would the Valar interfere like they did at the end of the First Age when they send an army of Vanyar and Noldor (the Valar themselves didn't fight) they would most probably defeat Sauron but at high cost; Sauron would most probably let the Haradrim and the Easterlings and his other human minions live in the conquered lands so it would be a very bloody fight between Sauron's army and the Valar's army.

But Sauron would most probably be defeated ONLY if the Valar send an army; otherwise it would be unlikely/impossible that Sauron got defeated; most of the remaining Gondorians and Rohirrim would be slaves then and should they be able to liberate themselves, they could never raise an army able to defeat Sauron's army. And defeating Sauron himself would be quite impossible since most of the Numenoran blood in Gondor already disappeared at the end of the Third Age and Sauron would most probably kill most of the Gondorians and Rohirrim and only let a small part of the peoples of Rohan and Gondor alive as slaves so they would never pose a threat to him anymore. (and he would kill all Rangers with no exception for sure, remembering what Elendil and Isildur did to him in the past)

So it would indeed be likely that the Valar would interfere which would mean total chaos in Middle-Earth. So, either way the result would be quite negative.

Aulë has made 1232 posts and is a Dwarf from Moria and is not online.
Posted Thursday 1st January 1970 (12:00am)

That is completely stupid Virumor!!! He put his evil in that and all his powers in that one ring....and you say that he deserves to get it back?!?! That’s like saying that Morgoth deserves Middle-Earth!!!!!!!!!

Aulë has made 1232 posts and is a Dwarf from Moria and is not online.
Posted Thursday 1st January 1970 (12:00am)

But perhaps Manw’ showing his presence in Mordor would frighten Sauron so that he would see his majesty and remember once again how truly powerful the Valar are and that he could never (being a maia and not even close to none of the Aratar’s powers) defeat them or have a lasting realm of terror!

Valedhelgwath has made 4245 posts and is an Elf from Rivendell and is not online.
Posted Thursday 1st January 1970 (12:00am)

Quote: How powerful would Sauron be if he had the ring?

Well for some idea look at the 1800 years that he did have the ring. Between SA 1693 and SA 1700 he managed to stomp all over Eriador and lay Eregion to ruin. When Tar Minastir's Numenorian army turned up in 1700, however, he was quickly defeated. Although he still had the ring, for 1562 years he then seems to have done very little with it. When Ar Pharazon turned up in SA 3262 with another Numenorian army, he promptly hid the ring and surrendered.

Funny enough, without the aid of his ring, he then managed to corrupt the Numenorians, send an invasion force to Valinor and inadvertently cause the sinking of Numenor all in the space of 57 years.

Back once more in Middle Earth, he then has the ring for a further 122 years during which time he watches the Faithful build up the realm of Gondor before finally being defeated at the hands of the Last Alliance.

Maybe Sauron was like Gollum. Whenever he had the ring, he maybe retreated to dark corner with it and called it his precious.

At the end of the day Sauron created the ring in order to spy on and control the wielder's of the lesser rings. He had to place an enourmous amount of his own power into the ring to be able to achieve this aim, but it was something that failed for the most part. Okay, it worked on Men allowing him to create the Nazgul, but the Dwarves were resistant to it, and the Elves realizing what he had done, stopped wearing their own rings.

I don't think the ring gave him power to create dragons etc, or to call other Maiar to him (although a show of strength would undoubtably summon certain followers). What it would do, however, was give him back the power he had placed into it. Remember, Sauron without his ring is a weakened Sauron.

In addition, once wearing the ring, he would be master of anything created by the powers of the other Rings. This would reveal the location of Rivendell which Vilya was keeping hidden, and also Lothlorien which Nenya was protecting from the ravages of time and also keeping secret.

If all had gone to plan, imagine what the ring would have achieved for Sauron. The Nazgul are his most loyal, most feared servants. Imagine what would have happened if he had managed to turn Gil-galad, Elrond and Galadriel into elven Nazgul, and join them with his seven Dwarven lords who had also been turned.

Aulë has made 1232 posts and is a Dwarf from Moria and is not online.
Posted Thursday 1st January 1970 (12:00am)

Quote: I doubt he would change. Melkor didn't, remember.

But I don’t think that it’s the same with Sauron Stoney....Melkor had great powers remember....greatest of all the ainur....there is a big difference there....Sauron was close to go back to Valinor after the downfall of Melkor but then he fled to M-E since he was ashamed or something like that....so if the Aratar had come it would be different....since his forces wasn’t even close to Morgoth’s.....and if Aul’ come...I bet that would do some change...because he WAS a servant of Aul’ before....same with Saruman.

This is my opinion though and I do not know if it would be so but still....it might be so it would’ve happened

Virumor has made 3567 posts and is a Rohirrim from Edoras and is not online.
Posted Thursday 1st January 1970 (12:00am)

Quote:He could never match with his former master (Aule) or with any other Vala!

The Valar wouldn't fight at all. They would only send a mighty army of Eldar lead by Eonwe (who is much more powerful than Sauron).The Valar didn't even fight at the War of Wrath, perhaps only Tulkas entered Angband to capture Morgoth but in this case, in a war against some lowlife Maia, instead of a Vala who thinks he is so big, they would just sit behind and watch the show.

Vampyr has made 99 posts and is a Dunedain from Osgiliath and is not online.
Posted Thursday 1st January 1970 (12:00am)

I completely agree with Virumor but also one question troubles me;Why don't Valar help the free people of Middle-Earth in their fight against Sauron unless it's a "life or death" situation? I mean why does it take so long for them to move their *sses before so many Elf&Human gets killed?

Virumor has made 3567 posts and is a Rohirrim from Edoras and is not online.
Posted Thursday 1st January 1970 (12:00am)

Quote:I completely agree with Virumor but also one question troubles me;Why don't Valar help the free people of Middle-Earth in their fight against Sauron unless it's a "life or death" situation? I mean why does it take so long for them to move their *sses before so many Elf&Human gets killed?

The fight against Sauron has always been a "life or death" situation. Anyway, the Elves and Humans are supposed to defeat Sauron on their own without any help. Also, the Valar sent help in the form of the Istari and indeed one of these Istari proved to be a very big help (understatement) for the Elves and Humans in getting rid of Sauron.

Maybe the Valar didn't help themselves by sending a huge army but i believe they did this because they wanted the humans to fight and so prove worthy of Middle-Earth because dominion over Middle-Earth would be given to them after Sauron perished.

For the Elves : perhaps they wanted to give the Elves a last task before they could 'retire' in Valinor. (or perhaps they were hoping that a lot of those sissy elves like Legolamb would be killed, so Valinor wouldn't be crowded with wimps - j/k)

Bugyfeanor has made 668 posts and is an Elf from Rivendell and is not online.
Posted Thursday 1st January 1970 (12:00am)

Well, Vir, that was just in case they 'would' interfere, which I think it was highly improbable! As for the help they provided (the Istari), that was almost fatal for the Elves and the Men (see Saruman!). Though I must admit Gandalf did a great job!

Sauron was no match for the Valar (not even for Eonwe, if I may add!), but he sure was the greatest peril for Middle Earth's safety and freedom in the SA and the TA; so, the Valar's lack of reaction against him seems a bit odd to me!

Valedhelgwath has made 4245 posts and is an Elf from Rivendell and is not online.
Posted Thursday 1st January 1970 (12:00am)

Why didn't the Valar come to the rescue of Middle Earth? No doubt JRR did his best to explain this one, because if he couldn't come up with a reasonable answer (or two), he would be left with a very short book. He simply couldn't have the Valar coming to the rescue every time something went wrong, otherwise there would be no Silmarillion, LotR etc.

Part of the answer lies in the Ainulindale - The Great Music.

The Ainur, both good and bad, created the Music from which the world and its history/future were made. Melkor and his followers twisted this music three times, but on the third time it was Eru himself who wove the new theme which harmonised everything again. Eru's themes were the actions of the likes of Beren and Luthien, Frodo, Bilbo, and maybe Aragorn's line etc.

The future of Middle Earth had been played out in the music. If the Valar had not harmonised Melkor's disharmony during the music, they would not be able to do so during the history of Ea either.

Virumor has made 3567 posts and is a Rohirrim from Edoras and is not online.
Posted Thursday 1st January 1970 (12:00am)

I think the Valar didn't interfere because Men and Elves and Dwarves - in one word the free peoples of Middle-Earth - were supposed to try to defeat evil for themselves, on their own.

I don't think the Valar didn't interfere because it was mentioned in the Song that Sauron would be destroyed and so that they could stay back in their lazy couches. The Valar didn't know either what was going to happen - well safe for Mandos.

I think if Sauron hadn't been defeated, they would have interfered. So in my opinion, the Valar only interfered by sending the Istari but they didn't know what was going to happen so they weren't sure that Sauron would be defeated.

Of course, Aule should have known that his former servant was an arrogant idiot poised to fail, so perhaps the Valar knew it after all. (j/k)

Bugyfeanor has made 668 posts and is an Elf from Rivendell and is not online.
Posted Thursday 1st January 1970 (12:00am)

I'm not sure another "Earendil situation" would've been possible; the Valar were pretty slow interfering when Melkor ruled Middle-earth, and he was one of them! I think that if Sauron would've stayed on Middle-earth (and attacking Valinor was hard even for him, even phisycally, since it was removed from the circles of the World!), they would've payed little attention to him. Then again, that's a lot of 'if' and 'would've' ...

Celebrimbor has made 20 posts and is an Elf from Lothlorien and is not online.
Posted Saturday 25th September 2004 (03:50am)

I think that whence all the people band together for the last fight in The Gray Havens, all the Elves in Elven Home will sail over in ships (although highly impossible,) nand if that resistance fell and the Elven Home elves never came, Sauron would probably launch a multimillion orc campaigne to siege the Elven Home. Though the Vala would protect them, i'm pretty sure they'd probably get hilaciously manslaughtered. (Elf-slaughtered in this instance) and I think that when every single last human elf hobbit dwarf and all was hunted down and beaten like a sick dog, darkness would sweep over the land. Everything will be industrailized. It will eventually grow and grow to what is now present day Europe.

Celebrimbor has made 20 posts and is an Elf from Lothlorien and is not online.
Posted Saturday 2nd October 2004 (02:07am)

No i'm not saying Sauron won. When he was defeated, i'm sure M-E went through an industrailized age. Finding new places, building new things etc. if you catch my drift. And i agree i thing Tolkien say the days he was here dominated by Sauron eg. World War 1, Vietnam, World War 2. I mean Tolkien has seen some pretty arsh stuff that would scar you. I'm sure the modern days for him was kind of summarized as Sauron.
~Celebrimbor

Loni has made 1522 posts and is an Elf from Lothlorien and is not online.
Posted Sunday 3rd October 2004 (12:51am)

Quite right, Grondy. Wasn't there something in the Silmarillion saying that when lies are sown they can always be reaped if there is someone to reap them? And of course there's always someone to reap them. So if Morgoth had ben stopped from the very beginning none of the bad stuff would've happened. If some other bad guy didn't come and do the same thing.

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