One of my issues is.....I am not of the blood of the creators of the bible. They openly state how they view the people who have different blood from the "chosen ones". So shall I betray my blood and join the ways/beliefs of those who despise me? One fact remains....man wrote the bible. We all know how man is. I see people on here demand facts/links/ info on claims of certain posts....yet accept the bible without question. It seems many cultures have different creation stories, Why did the bible take the lead? By force!

"Here they defended themselves to the last, those who still had swords using them, and the others resisting with their hands and teeth."Herodotus VII, 225

(06-09-2019, 12:53 AM)Elric Wrote: It's a hypothetical. It's irrelevant whether I would or wouldn't.
The Adam & Eve story is not literal. It's an analogy that was written for uneducated superstitious peasants.

My point is is that Adam was responsible for his own actions.
I'm responsible for my own thoughts, words & deeds.

Although the Bible contradicts itself on this point, it does say that we will not be held accountable for our fathers actions.
So how then could we possibly be held responsible for what a complete stranger did many thousands of years ago?

I don't know why I bother, but here goes.

1) Most of the books in the OT were NOT "written". They were the tradition of wandering peoples in the Ancient Near East, with the tribes we came to know as Hebrews holding the most complete contiguous knowledge passed down over millennia. It was not until the tribes united and formed a nation of their own under David and Solomon that the oral keeping of these remembered histories was "written".
Some of the hymns and ballads date to 1125 B.C. such as the Song of Deborah in Judges 5, it was sung when the Israelites were victorious over the Canaanites at Taanach. Even earlier is the Song of Miriam in Exodus 15, dating to the Exodus from Egypt in 1280 B.C.
For at the very least 500 years before this, what would become "books" were orally handed down by the elders. The story of Joseph dates to as far as 2,000 B.C. as it describes the Fathers in detail of the matching history of the ages, we know the Egyptians expelled the Hyksos in 1550 B.C. and most remaining foreigners such as the Hebrews were made slaves and were slaves for at least 200 years there.
2) Only the most gifted and honest, solemn keepers of the tradition were entitled to pass it along and hold it in tact, they spent much of their time doing this, and became the Levites. Those who could read were not "peasants", they were a tiny, exceptional group of sages, less than 1% of the population, and the educated were another tiny group of leaders who did not have to work physically.
3) Adam was responsible, but your responsibility is far different, because you are not the Father of the human race. The human race was affected by Adam's actions. You are not going to affect the human race, you are a by-product of these events in the ancient past, because you are a descendant physically, if Adam was changed by the Fall, his offspring were, and that includes you. This genea, this race of men, this constant re-generating (hence, "generation" as a verb), will not pass until all is fulfilled and that means the condition of us and the world and heaven itself will be changed again.
4) The Holy Bible never, ever "contradicts itself", except in small manners which even then can be explained or accounted for. If you do not have the capacity to understand why it does not contradict, then you're either intellectually lazy, incompetent, or are denied this truth because you lack sufficient grace.
5) Original Sin is not the same as generational sin, or generational demonic oppression. For example, in John 3:9 when the disciples asked Christ why the man born blind was born blind; was it because of the sins of his parents or his own sin? Here, the disciples are not speaking of the Fall of Man, they are speaking of the superstition that immediate family and near-term ancestral misdeeds would curse the children of those transgressors. This was refuted by Christ. It is still not the same as generational demonic or angelic oppression and protection. Christ answered the man was born blind so that the works of God may be glorified in him. Not only is that because Christ healed the man, but as a general rule in theodicy, evil is permitted so that good may increase against it, and evil is only permitted in this realm because it is up to us to reject it and be reconciled, no matter the difficulties and apparent pain. It is the next life we are called for, ultimately to be rejoined to this realm at the end of time.
6) Therefore, you are not spiritually responsible for Adam's sin. No wo-man is spiritually responsible for Eve's. However they are your bloodline, you are dust from their dust, which was altered.. weaknesses that Satan exploits to this day are your inheritance, and without redemption you cannot overcome the payment of sin that is eternally being irreconcilable to God, and still keeping your personal identity. If you want to keep that identity, be humble and repent, this goes for all men.

Why do you bother? Because your arrogance dictates the need to tell others that you're right & they're wrong?

(1) Yes, many cultures had an oral tradition mainly because "less than 1% of the population" could read or write. Like one long game of Chinese Whispers.
Having said that, they were written down eventually so I don't see your point.

(2) The stories were constructed in such a way so that the >99% of the population could understand. There was a much deeper esoteric meaning that I'm sure that the "sages" understood. These "sages" were probably Mystics with a tradition of secrecy to keep truth from the ears of the profane.
Many of the OT stories defy credulity. Do you really think that a bloke could survive for three days inside the belly of a whale? Let's face it, that one really takes the cake.

(3) Adam is not the "Father of the human race" (blasphemer!) Our Creator is our Father/Mother.
Had humanity started with just one couple, the lack of genetic diversity would kill off the human race within several generations.
If Adam & Eves only offspring was Cain & Abel, who did they marry & procreate with?
Were we all 'physical descendants' of Adam, then that would make all of us Jews. (Which I'm not)
Commonsense alone dictates that Africans & Scandinavians for e.g., originated from different gene pools.

(4) The Bible is full of contradictions. If you were as familiar with your Bible as you like to pretend, you'd know that for a fact.
I'd write a list but everytime that I go to the effort, it's ignored. So I'll give you one .... you're welcome.
Exodus 20:5 " ... for I the Lord thy God am a jealous God, visiting the inequity of the fathers upon the children unto the 3rd & 4th generation ..."
Ezekiel 18:20 "The son will not share the guilt of the father, nor will the father share the guilt of the son."

"... you're either intellectually lazy, incompetent, or are denied this truth because you lack sufficient grace."
And there it is. A perfect example of projecting your own inadequacies onto others when you're losing a debate or unable to answer a reasonable question intelligently. When unable to explain your position you resort to cheap insult. Typical.

(5) So God intentionally made a baby blind to make Himself look good? Huh. You really have a miserable opinion of the Divine then.
And you're saying then, that God is the direct & intentional cause of people born with a disability? How do they then, who have not been "healed" by "Christ", "glorify God"? You think that crippling babies is somehow a positive thing?
"evil is permitted"? So you're saying that our Creator controls "evil"? And therefore we should blame God when shit happens?

"the next life"? You believe in reincarnation then? As an Essene Rabbi, Jesus taught reincarnation, the original meaning of 'born-again'. It's good to see that we can at least agree on one thing.

(6) "you are not spiritually responsible for Adam's sin" That's correct, I am not. But according to Christian doctrine we are. You're not familiar with the 'original sin' concept?

(06-12-2019, 12:16 AM)Elric Wrote: "the next life"? You believe in reincarnation then? As an Essene Rabbi, Jesus taught reincarnation, the original meaning of 'born-again'. It's good to see that we can at least agree on one thing.

(6) "you are not spiritually responsible for Adam's sin" That's correct, I am not. But according to Christian doctrine we are. You're not familiar with the 'original sin' concept?

This is the last time I'll ever respond to a post of yours.

Jesus was not an essene, not a rabbi, did not teach reincarnation, to be born again is not reincarnation,
and we are not in agreement on anything whatsoever.

I said we are not spiritually responsible, not that we are not temporally responsible.