You strike me as one of the GoodGuys on this BBS...Bob Ross being another.

oops - just blown that!

Seriously, it is time to move back onto wine, so Tim, what's lit up your wine-drinking over the last couple of weeks?

Budget has been a bit limited of late, but Syrahs mostly....and a few Pinot Grigios.

The difficulty I have around where I live is in the availablity of French, Spanish and Italian wines. Bordeaux's are fairly easy to get, though.

Most of what I have avaiable to sample are Aussie or California [Napa/Sonoma and the Central Coast] wines with the occasional wine out of Washington or Oregon [not much to report there, unfortunately].

Any consistently good value Californian wines for me to look out for? Maybe some larger production, but solid wines that might make it here. I've got some Ridge in the cellar (a couple of halves of zin and a 99 petit syrah I think), which might be a thought for open mike sometime down the line . They're one of the rare producers that comes over in any volume, yet at fairly sensible prices (there is of course plenty of high volume, made to a price point wine that joins the others on the supermarket shelves).

Australia is my 1st love winewise but I'm enjoying the charms of Italy, where the extremes of pricing are, well, extreme! Drank a beautiful Puglian wine last week at about £4 for the bottle, yet I'll also pay daft money for Barolo, which can be very hit and miss for the price (but the hits are well worth it IMO).

regards

Ian

Hm.

Good question.

As to Californian good value wines, I would have to ask which varietals you are interested in....For me, the greatest fun is to find that $10-12 dollar bottle of wine that drinks like a $30-40 dollar bottle.

Circumstances notwithstanding, Merryvale is a very consistant value for the money, IMHO. Murphy-Goode for whites and Iron Horse for reds, as well.

Pardon me if I base my answer the question which inquired about the last two weeks.

Ah, the last two weeks. I thought that I read "queued" for some reason... so, my bad - my fault - mea culpa.

If you are talking about the last two weeks, see Bill B's report on wines in Enfield. The two RLdH, the Boxler and the ESJ were my favs.

Also, I wasn't trying to make you feel like you needed to drink something extravagant. I'm just really excited to try this sherry; it had nothing to do with you.

I don't have a budget to rare wines either... I always do anyway. *sigh* FWIW, I bought a bottle of that 89 Gravonia (one of the RLdH wines) for $2.99, and the same wine was better than most of the wines we tasted that night.

Ian Sutton wrote:If everyones had their last word, we can move along now...

Easy for you to say, Ian. You just got named as one of the 'GoodGuys', along with Bob Ross. (With which I do not disagree, I might add.)

Here I go out of my way to give Tim some thoughtful advice on developing and fine tuning his style, offer a few tips, give him some icons of the field, and he goes and rates me as a schoolyard bully, telling me I have to 'civilize-up a bit'.

But, hey, I'll have to cease and desist now. When I bullied him in the schoolyard, I had no idea he was ' a former successful HS Forensics and Debate coach'!!! I mean, geez, that's powerful stuff. I'm chastened. Have to mind my Ps and Qs. Toe the line. All those other cliches.

Hope Manuel didn't get frightened when he realized how close he came to tangling with a former successful HS Forensics and Debate coach. Of course, Manuel could probably benefit from a little refinement and civilizing-up too, so maybe it will turn out to be a good thing for him in the long run.

Don't stifle Tim, now: he's one of the more entertaining people around here. Just let him keep talking.

Pardon me if I base my answer the question which inquired about the last two weeks.

Ah, the last two weeks. I thought that I read "queued" for some reason... so, my bad - my fault - mea culpa.

If you are talking about the last two weeks, see Bill B's report on wines in Enfield. The two RLdH, the Boxler and the ESJ were my favs.

Also, I wasn't trying to make you feel like you needed to drink something extravagant. I'm just really excited to try this sherry; it had nothing to do with you.

I don't have a budget to rare wines either... I always do anyway. *sigh* FWIW, I bought a bottle of that 89 Gravonia (one of the RLdH wines) for $2.99, and the same wine was better than most of the wines we tasted that night.

Best,Joe

Hm.

So the ROTFL[MAO] was just a, um...keyboard error then, eh?

Interesting.

Glad you're excited about trying this sherry.

Wisdom and Warter was a favorite of mine [back when I could afford it] and I, too, got excited when I found a bottle of it.

Please do tell us what it was like when you do pull the cork, OK?

Seriously.

Last edited by TimMc on Tue Aug 22, 2006 11:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Tim, Relax guy! You're seeing ghosts. Not every comment is aimed at you. Most of the people here are quite decent and well adjusted. Very few of the WLDG members seem to want to pick fights, or even watch them for that matter. Please, just take the chip off of your shoulder and enjoy the company. Check your debating skills at the door.

Sam

"What lies behind us and what lies before us are a small matter compared to what lies within us" -Emerson

Sam,
Good advice. Unfortunately, he's been given this sort of advice by Robin and others and Tim has just chosen to take offense. I hope he will take your advice with the kindness with which it was offered.

However, were this an Athenian democracy there woulld be a lot of pottery sherds with Tim's name on it. I suspect we could get the required 6000 votes. Unfortunately, Robin runs some kind of Platonic benign dictatorship.

Cheers!
James

Don't you just love the way "some" people show off their alleged education?

James Roscoe wrote:Sam, Good advice. Unfortunately, he's been given this sort of advice by Robin and others and Tim has just chosen to take offense. I hope he will take your advice with the kindness with which it was offered.

However, were this an Athenian democracy there woulld be a lot of pottery sherds with Tim's name on it. I suspect we could get the required 6000 votes. Unfortunately, Robin runs some kind of Platonic benign dictatorship.

Cheers!James

Don't you just love the way "some" people show off their alleged education?

That seems to be your standard response when anyone says anything to you you either don't like or don't agree with, Tim.

That's very interesting.

Is everybody out to get you, Tim? Did they pick on you a lot in grade school? Maybe you lost some of your lunch money to those schoolyard bullies?

Hey, I'm with ya, buddy. I had a couple of bad episodes with those types myself. Like in this one elementary school, with that guy John Sizemore and his juvie crew of morons. But that's not important right now...

Under those circumstances, it sure would be understandable if you went into debate. Lot more sense to fight with words than to tussle in the schoolyard with those bullies. Comfort in being behind a podium, too. Sorta like being in front of a nice, safe computer screen, where you can be whatever you wanna be, and say whatever you wanna say.

And you can fight all those bullies that have the temerity to disagree with you. But you have to be careful, Tim, and remember that sometimes when you go on and on and on, you start revealing things that maybe you don't intend to reveal, or even think you are revealing, until it's too late. Sorta like in therapy, you know?

Then people might think you were just weirdly paranoid, and pumped up on your own self-generated ego steroids and testosterone (like that bicycle guy, I guess, that's what he said anyway). I think they call it overcompensating, but I'm not sure on the jargon.

Hey, I'm just speculating here, right? But you tend to race back and forth between this 'Aw Shucks, Ah'm just a likable and humble guy who likes to jaw about wine' to this truculent, whining, bitter, angry (really angry) dude who's ready to put up his (at least figurative) dukes. when someone questions him about something. And I'm talking 0 to 60 at McLaren speed, dude.

Me, I'd be happy if you split the diff and settled somewhere in between the Aw Shucks and Testosterone Tim. Then you might get along better with folks.

That is...if you want to get along. If this is what gets your jollies going, then, hey, cut loose. It's safe, at least.

Either way, I think Ian's prolly right and we should extricate ourselves from this Monty Python sketch.

James Roscoe wrote:As my grandfather always said," People who go looking to be insulted are rarely disappointed."

And like my mother always said, " If you always expect to see the worst in people, you will."

Bullies will always show their true colors in the end, James.

Cheers.

Oy.

Tim, part of how we learn what is acceptable behavior in a community like this is through a sort of roundabout reinforcement after a new (or old) person breaks one of the unspoken mores. The manner in which this reinforcement is usually conducted is actually in the best interest of the taboo party. Rather than completely deconstructing the person in question, humorous razzing can take place. Since lighthearted teasing is preferable to complete and utter lambasting, this is a good thing. Being called a dink or troll can be overcome and looked back on with humor, being publicly flayed is more difficult. Also, you'll notice that everyone here teases each other; it is what social groups affectionately do. To be teased is to be a peer, to be treated condescendingly is otherwise.

For an example of the above, you'll find comments like this unacceptable:

"Troll, indeed. I mean, the absolute gall! "

or

"and as a former successful HS Forensics and Debate coach, could debate circles around most on this BBS"

or

"I debate the issues"

or

"Cheers. (insert winky face)"

The first comment is laudable. That's not how you would talk to peers. Nobody (unless they are a tool) says "the absolute gall"; it makes you sound fake in addition to the condescending tone.

The second comment is not only boastful, but inaccurate. While being a HS Debate Coach is admirable, it's not very awe inspiring in this pool of folks. Saying something like that and expecting it to make waves... well, maybe you are too used to dealing with 16 year old kids. Also, you've got to understand that wine is to geeks what bingo is to the elderly, and internet wine forums are nerd Meccas - nerds roam unchecked in these wine forums, grazing in herds and grunting at the unwary females that find themselves here. I was once considered intelligent, but here I'm like Lennie looking to tend rabbits. No matter how smart you think you are, one of these MENSA dweebs will make you look like Sling Blade. The really brilliant ones are usually the quietest, too... you’ll talk to one of them for fifteen minutes about yourself at an offline, then make a polite inquiry only to hear something in response like, “I invented solar panels."

The third comment isn't really true since you didn't address a lot of the rebuttals you received. Instead, you’ve stubbornly stayed within your safety zone and dug in you heels as if the act of debating was more important than the material. That's where much of the "troll" thing came in. At some point it’s important to grudgingly give some ground. You seem like a reasonably intelligent guy, but you've obviously got a lot to learn about the whole world of wine. Until you do, it may be best to listen to guys who have been uber-geeks for decades.

The fourth comment and emoticon is the type of passive-aggressive snide behavior that is also discouraged.

You've annoyed some of the core people of this community with these breaches of etiquette. These forum members may not have been exactly cuddly, but see it from their position.

Some of the above transgressions can be forgiven because of your relative newness, the rest can be forgiven simply because -well- this thread isn't a train wreck (we've had some of those), it's a comedy.

I'm saying all this with the best intentions. I'd rather have let the underlying messages behind the responses you've received be your guide, but it's not getting through. I'm not trying to be mean or patronizing in writing this out. The first thing you can do to help this situation is stop replying to people with ruffled feathers. If folks take a poke at you because of what you've said, joke with them and admit some of your lines were a bit Magoo. You'll find an immediate change in people’s reaction to you. I've taken more than my fair share of public paddlings* for things I've said over the years: it‘s part of the learning process. This is actually the most forgiving forum you'll find, so that is a bit of luck for you.

Tim, I appreciate the endorsement, and I have to admit I have a really high opinion of myself. :-)

But, there are so many other folks here that I hold in high regard, it would be awfully hard to single out myself, or Ian for that matter.

I could list all the folks that post here that I really respect, but let me cut to the chase:

We all admire people that have strong opinions and stick to them with facts and a certain respect for the people who hold different opinions. Here are a few opinions where you and I differ:

1. I like screw caps and the new glass closure and people that are trying to deliver wine to me that is free from taint.

2. I like wines from Napa and Sonoma, and a number of wine makers in those areas.

3. I enjoy reaching for expesive wines, more than I can really afford, frankly, and then sharing them with other wine lovers.

4. I like people with fighting spirit, who are willing to take a position and fight it out on the merits. Especially if it's an unpopular position.

[One example: in a "River Runs Through It" -- the book although the movie has its moments -- I get chills when I remember the father asking if his dead son's right hand was broken -- and smiling with pleasure when the answer was yes.]

You bring a great deal of value to this board -- look at all the posts you've generated with a really ridiculous premise. Two of them actually. As I've written to you privately, please continue to post.

It's not that we are a bunch of old farts that don't like dissent -- most of us are contrarians as far as I can tell. It's just that we don't take any of it personally. The ideas and the wines are what we love and what we are mostly passionate about. (Although, we sometimes get irritated at each other's oddities -- and then all bets are off -- at least for awhile.)

In any event, you have a fresh, interesting voice, and you have a fighting spirit I really enjoy. I hope you'll keep posting.

Regards, Bob

PS: Let me make you a deal: I'll send you a few bottles under cork -- your choice from a list I've sent to other folks on this board. Your only obligation: post your tasting notes. [My basic bitch about you, frankly, is that I have absolutely no idea what you think about wine. Any wine.

Joe,
Posting this lengthy URL made the window of the entire thread wider. I had this problem, even more extreme, in a recent post. In the Fun and Friends Forum is a thread about URLs. After reading that, I edited my post and things came back to normal. It has to do with the placement of the square brackets.

Does anyone here remember the Meritage "extraveganza" of a few vintages ago?

As I recall, they were "well" priced and people snapped the bottles up like there was no tomorrow.

Whatever happened to them?

Tim
To answer your earlier question, in fact Meritage is one of the areas I'm interested in trying more, after a more than handy St Supery picked up fairly cheap when a UK merchant was closing down.
Apart from that Syrah, Bdx blends, Italian Varietals, pinot (but I'm too hard to please) and pretty much anything except the real alcoholic bruisers. I do enjoy cellaring reds and don't mind them with a little too much age on them (the fading gracefully type). Tolerant of fractional greeness and fractional overripeness, but not of either extreme.
regards
Ian