Weekly training volume for completing marathon swims?

Disregarding water temperature and sea condition acclimatization, what type of weekly mileage should one achieve to be able to comfortably swim 10k, 25k, 25k+? Or is is more about time spent swimming, rather than distance? I understand this can differ wildly per person, but there must be a baseline.

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For the Dart 10K I trained no more than 4 times per week averaging 3200 yards per. And a few once per week 2-2.5 hour pool swims. Granted, the 10K was current-assisted. I finished it in what would normally equal 8000 meters.

For my first few open water 10k swims, I averaged around 25,000-30,000/week, with a couple longer swims mixed in.

For the longer swims (Catalina, MIMS, and Tampa) I try to build into 6-8 weeks at 60,000/week. Of course, always listen to your body and build into the massaive yardage. You can't just go from 10,000/week and hit 60k, without hurting something. I also got pretty sick this year about the time I was supposed to be hitting 60k. I tried to power through it for a few days, but it was just making me sicker. A couple of days off, and a "ruined" training plan, were definitely the best choice in the end. Listening to your body is key!

I'm also just 30, so my shoulders are still pretty young. I also know several successful channel swimmers who have made across it just fine on 45k-50k.

I know I am in the minority. I trained for Tampa & Catalina on 90K building to 130K for the 5 months leading up to Tampa. My swimming is limited by a compromised shoulder so I spent a lot of time on my bicycle trainer. For those longer swims I had no ambition to do it in a specific time. I swam very conservatively because I didn't want to risk coming up short. I had lots of energy at the end of both swims (and no shoulder discomfort). I also have the benefit of 40 years (off and on) of open water swimming. So the answer to your question is dependent on what your goals are, but frankly I don't think you need to do much more even if you are more ambitious. I just think your training program has to be more carefully put together, and you have to make sure that they are high quality workouts.

I trained up to 25K/week for the 3 months before last years 10 mile Kingdom Swim. Let's just say that I have never finished a swim and wished I had trained less. The big lake conditions took it out of me (and my paddler). I will make a point to get more training in rough water next time. Train for the worst and hope for the best.

When your projected 40k swim turns into a 60k swim, you want to know you've done everything within your power in training to have been prepared. Or at least that's how I think, but it's not universal. I know one successful EC swimmer who faked the qualification swim, which appals me with the stupidity of it.

It's also the case that a few people get lucky on weather. They undertrain but get a great day, and wonder what all the fuss is about. In the case of one guy, he keeps saying the Channel really isn't that tough. Meanwhile some of us half kill ourselves training and get Force 5 half way across. I think my max mileage in one week/8day period was 110k, all open water, but that was the Cork OW Distance Week, which included a four, six and eight hour swim. Max distance that year was one friend who hit 140k.

While I started swimming the ocean at a very early age, I also have a fair amount of experience in mountaineering and wilderness travel (40 miles on skis in one day pulling a sled) along with some long bike rides in the mountains (145 miles + 18,000 climbing in one day). So my training plan has been strongly influenced by what I have found has worked for me in those disciplines. What I have found is that for me the quality of the preparation is just as important as the quantity (sometimes more). I think there is no end to how much we can improve our technique in swimming, but there are limits to how much our bodies can handle (although it is usually more than we think). I believe that the key to training is to keep training close to your limits, but not so much that recovery time becomes excessive. So for me I build to have my best day of swimming on the day (or week) of the swim.

I think making sure you reach a certain amount of yards can lead to ineffective, or damaging, training. When I was 30 I could hammer away twice a day in preparation for a 5K rough water swim. Not so today. So I try to break down my training to address the things I need to achieve to be ready. Fitness is incredibly important, and I've found a big part of this can be done out of the water. There needs to be time to work on form, and I do a fair amount of this. I also believe you need strength in open water, particularly rough water, and I do this through very high quality interval training and core strength exercises. Finally there is mental preparation that comes with maintaining a hard pace for a very long period of time. I am lucky in this regard. I consider this to be my strongest asset, even more so as I've gotten older.

In addition, I laid out a 3 year plan to prepare for the EC with each year focused on mastering a major element of what I thought I would need on EC day. I also transition very easily from pool to open water because of the years I spent in the ocean. All of these things affect the kind of training program I laid out for myself, and how I train is specially tailored to my strengths and weaknesses. I think following someone else's proven plan may lead to success, but I think an individually tailored plan maximizes the likelihood of success. Nothing can guarantee it.

I want to point to an excellent comment over at the USMS forum by Chris Derks, a four-time winner of the Tampa Bay Marathon Swim who was also a player at the elite level in OWS. The comment is response to a guy who is currently training 16,000 yds/week and wonders what it will take to build up to a 38-mile swim.

Hopefully Chris will join us over here - I'd love to hear more from him.

Here's an approach that I took, when I was training for a 34,000 meter marathon swim. Maybe this sounds like undertraining to some people (judging by some of the earlier posts of 60k/week), but, uhhh, I have terrestrial responsibilities too, and I also imagine there are a finite number of shoulder rotations in my life span.

From time to time in 8 months of training I would do the distance of the swim on a weekly basis. And in the final 10 weeks I did this distance every week (except for the final 2 weeks pre-event.

To do the distance on a weekly basis, I decided a confidence builder would be to swim the 34,000 meters in four consecutive days--8,500 meters per day. I called this a "four day tear" (I like to name some of my sets). I did a "three day tear" a couple of times, in which I swam 11,500 meters per day for three days in a row. And, can you guess that when I swam 17,000 meters for each of two days in a row, I called that a...."two day tear". These "tears" were good solid sets of working out--plenty of quality in them, and when I realized I could swim 11,500 meters/day for three days in a row, and still feel mostly normal afterwards, I developed great confidence.

My longest single training swim was a 23,000 meter swim -- I think in the future I would make the longest swim be more like 26,000--e.g. a solid 75% of the event's distance.

These tears were valuable because they felt very foundational to me, and they also gave me ample opportunity to experiment with different types of nutrition.

To succeed in the open water, surely one must be fully trained for the event on a physical level, but equally important is that you feel confident in your abilities and in your feedings.

From my perspective as an older marathon swimmer and observing the almost fanatic bent to get more and distance and time in pool as a training regime is that most have it wrong and I believe the distance and effort should be saved for the periodic training swim say on the week-end with a recovery day or two (observe your body's recovery) after. As I note I have attached a couple or paragraphs from a recent study related to swimmers and getting enough sleep/improvement of performance...I also feel that over training increased the chances of blowing out the shoulders...just my take...take a look below:

Extra Sleep Improves Athletic Performanceby Faster Swimming on Sunday, April 1, 2012 at 12:48pm •Participants in this ongoing study were five healthy students on the Stanford University men’s and women’s swimming teams. For the first two weeks of the study, the students maintained their usual sleep-wake pattern. The athletes then extended their sleep to 10 hours per day for six to seven weeks.

“These results begin to elucidate the importance of sleep on athletic performance and, more specifically, how sleep is a significant factor in achieving peak athletic performance,” said lead author Cheri Mah of the Stanford Sleep Disorders Clinic and Research Laboratory. “While this study focuses specifically on collegiate swimmers, it agrees with data from my other studies of different sports and suggests that athletes across all sports can greatly benefit from extra sleep and gain the additional competitive edge to perform at their highest level.”

I think weekly yardage amounts should be a combo of doing what you physically need to swim the distance AND what you mentally need to feel strong and confident. When I first started swimming 10k distances, I was training around 30,000-40,000/week- just because I liked it. Mentally, I can't tell myself that I can successfully swim 20+ miles on 45,000/week, even though I know plenty who have. I look back to my high school and college days, and try to mimic that training the best I can. That way, when I'm standing at the start of a channel, looking across to the other side, I can know, with confidence, that I'm going to make it.

I 100% agree that sleep is essential to good training. I'm not a morning person, so I try to swim in the evenings as much as possible. Also, if there are days when I'm exhausted, I'll take a day off or sleep in or whatever I need. Granted, I do try to make it up later in the week with a longer swim. But, I do believe in listening to your body and letting it recover as needed.

For my English Channel Swim, I never did more than 8k in a single day, and probably averaged around 35-40k during the heaviest period. I made it and did well, but I think that mostly had to do with being young (22) and relying on 17 consecutive years of intense training. With a little more training, I probably would have enjoyed it more.

For my Catalina Channel Swim, I averaged 45-50k a week during the heaviest training (more like 35-40kk for the bulk of my training), which included long training swims (up to 20k) on the weekends. I felt significantly better prepared for this than I did for my English Channel swim, and did very well. For channel swimmers, I think this is probably pretty ideal.

The above looks to be similar to what I used...about 2.5 miles per pool training day and an average of 6 hours in open water on the weekend say 12 miles....The pool was mainly was warm up and mostly intervals like a lot of 100s leaving before fully catching my breath.

A minimum of 4 days a week, preferably 5 days. One hour to one hour thirty, seems like an average base at this time of year, increasing over the winter and spring. This is the easy time of year, 15 to 25k maybe depending on what you are used to.

There are of course more and different answers to this, depending on the swimmer.

I'm at 4 sessions per week. Roughly 20 km, including one longer session of 6-10 km. Trying to improve technique at the moment. I am planning on moving gradually to 30 km in the early spring in preparation for Windermere in July.

There's plenty on this site (animal, lunchtime etc). Beware though, there are some pretty fast swimmers around, so if you're more pedestrian like me, try not to be too daunted, just adjust to your current pace and stamina levels!

I'm at 4 sessions per week. Roughly 20 km, including one longer session of 6-10 km. Trying to improve technique at the moment. I am planning on moving gradually to 30 km in the early spring in preparation for Windermere in July.

I think that sounds fine. If you can handle already 6K, you're not going to have a problem this Spring.

I never did more than 30,000 yards in a week training for Swim the Suck (10 miles). I was usually closer to 24,000. And I think I trained more than most people who did that event. (I know I swam slower than most of them.)

I will back up what @WaterGirl said. I averaged closer to 15K per week leading up to Swim the Suck. Work got in the way mostly, so I tried to do quality versus quantity. (Not suggesting anyone else here concentrates on quantity over quality.) I theoretically knew that I could handle the 10 miles, but I was still scared (yes, scared) that I'd not be able to stay horizontal comfortably for so long. The longest I had done in the pool was 10,000 yards (just under 3 hours), but that included short breaks where I was vertical.

In other words, I was more concerned with time horizontal than miles on my shoulders, if that makes sense.

So in the 3 weeks leading up to StS, I did a long day once a week where I spent as much time horizontal. That was 2 to 2.5 hours, basically broken into sets of 1500m, with less than :10 rest at the end just to get a quick drink of water. 2.5 was still only half of how long I thought it would take me to do StS. But, I had work and family commitments that I didn't want to miss out on.

In the end it all worked out. I realized shortly into the race that I'd be able to do it. I swam it a little under 5 hours and nothing really hurt much.

Now, I would never try anything bigger, like a solo crossing anywhere, on only 15K a week.

I think it's also important to take into consideration what your current base is right now. If you've been swimming and are just trying to maintain for a few more months until you start building as your races get closer, then you won't need to train quite as much as if you're starting from scratch. Starting from scratch, I'd really think you'd want to be at the 4-5 sessions per week and building endurance right now. If you have some of a base and want to save some motivation for later when you need to be swimming a more intensely, 3-4 sessions with a greater focus on technique is probably just fine, too.

So the swim coach in me says before making a training plan or workout suggestions for you I'd be interested in some more information such as;

About how old are you?What's your current fitness level, how much are you currently swimming etc?Do you consider yourself under, over weight or just right?What is your swim background, I.E. did swim competitively and if so at what level?When did you last time a 1500m pool swim and how fast did you go?What training facilities (pools) do you have access too and what are your open water (OW) training possibilities like?How much time can you train per week?Will you be able to swim with a team?What is your current OW experience?How competitive do you want to be in these races? for example just finishing them or do you want to win and at very least be in top five overall or age group etc. Do any of these races have web sites with results if so please link one or two of them.Generally, what is the water temp for these races? Going with or without a wetsuit?

Hi guys.. I have a training question and can not post yet (probationary period) and wanted to know some information.

40 year old, doing the EC (august) and Catalina (june) this year. Need some help on my training... I plan to do the milage, but am having issues trying to fit in everything.

1. How much speed work did you do in the last 3 months - like interval training.

2. How much threshold work did you do?

3. Did any of you guys use a vasa trainer?

4. I am worried I will not be able to get longer swims in twice a week - usually lasting longer than 10 + miles. How many of you are able to commit this type of schedule for your swims. I plan to get long swims in = to the total milage of the total swim attempt, but its really difficult getting it in twice a week. I am breaking the milage over shorter swims and then committing to a long swim once a week.

I am not looking for the world record, I just need some help to put this all in perspective. Any and all advice is welcome... please help. I am freaking out a bit.

I'll pipe in here. I said the same thing to someone else recently on the channelswimmers listserve. The Channel is a fickle beast. There is no one answer, no one way. You do want to have a modicum of distance under your belt , HOWEVER... there are many parts to the Channel. Know how to tread water! Know what you want feed on, what works and have a fall back plan. Know how to and be comfortable swimming at night. Know your crew.. or make sure your crew knows you. KISS, Keep it simple......The 6 hour swim is a MINIMUM unless you are Petar or Trent ( or Michelle or Marcia or Anne or or or.) There is no one definitive amount of yardage. Some people whom you would swear were shoo ins, don't make it. Some whom you wouldn't think could go past the 6 hour mark.. zip across. The weather plays a HUGE part, you may not even get to go. ( not so true w Catalina but very true w the Channel) Trust in yourself and yet always push yourself.How's that for wishy washy?

Looking for the next big thing.. ... @suzieswimcoach
www.suziedodsswimcoaching.com

And channel swims are cold, which makes it tough to acclimate for those of us more than a thousand miles from the nearest ocean. I'm doing lots of stationary laps in an ice bath a few times a week. And, as Suzie pointed out, there's no singular approach. Most of the Brits I've chatted with think the weekly mileage we put in is crazy. I'm doing quality intervals (5-6000 scy) during the week and get in a long swim, 4-6 hours on Sundays. I take a rest week, reducing the volume by a third, every 4th week. Your mileage may vary!

About the cold... those training from Dover usually only get to swim "cold" water on the weekends and they do just fine. Yes, there is a physical need to become acclimatised but... there is also a mental preparation.Not to say they aren't both important! If you go in thinking "it's cold" yes, it's going to be cold. Donal's blog has superb information on it. It definitely is more difficult from the hinterlands but certainly not impossible. Denver, MN, IN,IL, SC all have successful EC crossers! @ mollynance! you are doing great!!Come to SF.. we'll get you your 6 hour in in 5 days.....

Looking for the next big thing.. ... @suzieswimcoach
www.suziedodsswimcoaching.com

I've been following and adapting the Complete Conditioning for Swimming, which is a staple text for swim coaches and serious (non-marathon) swimmers. So, using those guidelines, I had my "mid-season meet" set at Charleston 12 mile in October and "Championship meet" set for Tampa Bay Marathon. I try not to think about my highest yardage per week, but I do keep track of the weekend long swims....I will peak at back to back swims of 12 miles before my taper settles in..just 10 more days!! My weekly yardage is about 60K this week, might be more.

I've been following and adapting the Complete Conditioning for Swimming, which is a staple text for swim coaches and serious (non-marathon) swimmers. So, using those guidelines, I had my "mid-season meet" set at Charleston 12 mile in October and "Championship meet" set for Tampa Bay Marathon. I try not to think about my highest yardage per week, but I do keep track of the weekend long swims....I will peak at back to back swims of 12 miles before my taper settles in..just 10 more days!! My weekly yardage is about 60K this week, might be more.

Have fun in Tampa. A few words of advice. Don't breathe to the left and avoid looking at Tropicana Field. You're in a left-hand turn at that point and that sucker doesn't move. Also, don't look for the Gandy Bridge. It doesn't get any closer either. :D

Hi guys.. I have a training question and can not post yet (probationary period) and wanted to know some information.

40 year old, doing the EC (august) and Catalina (june) this year. Need some help on my training... I plan to do the milage, but am having issues trying to fit in everything.

1. How much speed work did you do in the last 3 months - like interval training.

2. How much threshold work did you do?

3. Did any of you guys use a vasa trainer?

4. I am worried I will not be able to get longer swims in twice a week - usually lasting longer than 10 + miles. How many of you are able to commit this type of schedule for your swims. I plan to get long swims in = to the total milage of the total swim attempt, but its really difficult getting it in twice a week. I am breaking the milage over shorter swims and then committing to a long swim once a week.

I am not looking for the world record, I just need some help to put this all in perspective. Any and all advice is welcome... please help. I am freaking out a bit.

I was swimming 10k per workout and Saturdays was about the same, but out in the ocean.

I didn't do much speed work while training. Mostly terrible sets like 5x2000s or 3 hour pool swims. I know every way to cut up 10000 yards. I sometimes got to swim with the USS team, which had intervals and sets for max speed. It was a nice change of pace.

I didn't break 10:00 in a 1000 at a meet that year because my speed was totally gone, but I did have a fast EC time. Slow and steady wins the race.

I found that I would naturally build during long workouts, so it wasn't necessary to deliberately focus on threshold swimming. I wouldn't sweat it. Again, Slow and steady wins the race. Marathons are about the grind and being able to hold on to an indefinite pace.

Before Tampa Bay one year, there was a super-fast NCAA swimmer doing pace 100s in the hotel pool. That was completely unnecessary and probably didn't help him in the race. I also realized that he didn't have much of an idea of what he was doing, which was to my advantage. He learned a lot during that swim and a few months later he completed the EC with a very good time.

I didn't use a VASA trainer at all. IMHO, if you have time to workout, it should be in the pool instead of being on a machine. If it's all you've got, go for it, but there's no substitute for water.

Have fun in Tampa. A few words of advice. Don't breathe to the left and avoid looking at Tropicana Field. You're in a left-hand turn at that point and that sucker doesn't move. Also, don't look for the Gandy Bridge. It doesn't get any closer either. :D

Thanks! I breathe to both sides and generally just turn my brain off when I swim. Not very hard to turn it off. :D Turning it back on again is another story!

@Dredpiraterobts, it's hard to get all the hours in. But you can do "long" marathon swims w/o sacrificing family time or sanity time. I did Swim the Suck on very low mileage, compared to the folks in these forums. Granted, I was never at risk of winning, but I didn't care. All I wanted to do was swim the whole 10 miles.

From mid-February until race season I average(d) between 65-75K a week. 10,000 yd each PM after work, and a quick 45 mins (3000) before work twice a week. Weekend workout was usually a 2 hour ocean swim. If the ocean was bad, I could go across the street to the ISHOF pool.

I moved to Texas in 2002 and managed to keep it up for USS 25K Nats (2003 and 2005), MIMS (2004), and USMS 25K Nats (2008). My work schedule and job were different than in Florida, so I would swim on Sundays and skip a day during the week.

This is all making me feel much better as I get ready for Lake Zurich in 6 weeks and am feeling underprepared.

I swim at least 25k every week year round, and then build to 40k when prepping for swims of 10-15 miles. I make sure to do at least a few 5+ hours swims.

I also run 3x a week at 8-12 miles per run.

And I still beat myself up for feeling like I am not swimming enough. Then there's that pesky kid who I actually like spending time with. Oh yeah--and the husband. And the dogs. And the hedgehog. And work...........

Would be VERY interested in reading about your experience with Lake Zurich. I want to do that swim in the future. I'll be coming as a foreigner who'll need the organizers to get me boat support, will have to find an affordable hotel, etc. You have a blog?

I have a blog but haven't written anything about this yet. I certainly will after the fact. I am curious about how the boat support thing is going to work. My husband is generally my kayaker and lifeline and knows my swimming so well that I trust us as a team. Not sure about this other boat thing! Really hoping it's just going to be my husband in a kayak as usual.

And the communication is a bit challenging so far. I can't quite figure out how it all works. I am assuming that I will learn a lot at the pre-swim meeting the day before. It seems they are very well organized and that once we are there, it will become clearer.

I will be traveling a few days before, from Massachusetts to NYC to Zurich and a bit concerned about the jetlag factor too. Leaving on a red-eye on the 7th, arriving early morning the 8th, race meeting the 9th, and swimming the 10th. Hmmmm.

Hotel was easy. The Hotel Speer in Rapperswil. I have gotten a ton of information from Jim Boucher who has done the swim and been a wealth of info. (And who I owe an email to and am so thankful for!!! Thank you!!)

Mostly worried about my son's boredom factor being on a boat all day since my husband will be facing serious whining. Let's just say my son is, after all these years, rather unimpressed by this whole swimming thing. :)

Just as a side note, my longest training swim was 3 hours in the SF bay..and a 3 hour pool swim. I did a couple of those. END-WET took me almost 10 hours. I took one day to recover. Over training is a worse evil than undertraining , I think....

Looking for the next big thing.. ... @suzieswimcoach
www.suziedodsswimcoaching.com

my view - after 89 Robben Island crossings , etc - is that less is more. I consistently train 20-22km per week so if I am planning a longer swim than 25km , I don't alter my training much as I have built years of baseline. When I have been tempted to increase distance/week - goodbye shoulders....