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Crown/U proof mark question

What are the different Crown/ U proof marks? I see that Joop uses the abbreviation Cc/U. Is this different than the Crown/ U proof mark, or the same thing? Does someone have good pictures of Crown/ U proof mark(s)?
Will you ever see an Eagle/ N proof mark and a Crown/ U proof mark on the same pistol or only one or the other?

Are Police Banners marked with the Crown/ U, the E/N, or other proof mark, or does it depend on the date of manufacture? How do acceptance marks (e.g. Eagle/ L) marks relate to proof marks on Commercial vs. Police pistols, etc.?

What markings would a domestic Commercial (not sold as part of a contract) gun have?

As you can see from my other Want to Buy post, I'm trying to obtain a Banner Commercial and there is a lot I need to learn. I have some Luger reference books ordered, but I'm anxious to learn in the meantime.

C/C/U is different from C/U. You will not see C/N and C/U on the same pistol unless it was reproofed at a different time. Police Pistols are marked with an E/F, E/L/, E/C, commercial pistols are not. WWII commercial pistols will have the E/N with NO military proofs.

I was away for three weeks from the forum, due to a trip to the USA and a lot of work on the book about the Mauser Parabellum pistols that I want to finish now very soon.

During the evolution of my research I started using C/c/U, or Cc/U as the shortcut for the Oberndorf pressure test stamp. As Martin explaned above, this is the correct way to describe the Crown above crown above U of this marking. See picture below.

While working on the book and needing Tables having a column for the proof marking, I needed to adopt the format to other proof stamps, such as C/N and E/N. The Cc/U was truncated to C/U - just to shrink the colomn width. I do apologize...

interesting. I guess, this is the way the Oberndorf proof house used the c/c/U markings? The c/c/U markings used in the Suhl proof house did look different. See photos of a Roth-Sauer and a Sauer Bär pistol. Both crowns are square, while one crown in the Oberndorf (?) marking is more like a Royal crown (rounded and more "cloudy").

while thinking again about your question, I have to specify my previous statement:

Originally Posted by sauerfan

it's always c/c/U: crown over crown over U. There are always two superposed crowns present.

This is the case for pistols only. According to German proof law of 1891, pistols and revolvers, respectively had to be marked with c/c/U. Long guns (rifles, shotguns, drillings and so on) had only one crown over U - c/U. Plus additional proof markings not present on pistols and revolvers.

Regards

Martin

Value? Open an auction at GB or AA and in two weeks you'll know exactly....

My slowish conduct towards the (most estimated) messages on this forum is caused by my daily work on this book... It seems that we will be ready for printing in two more months.
After that, I promise that I will attend to you all here on the forum like I did in the past!

Martin,
Thanks for the pictures of the C/c/U stamps on Roth-Sauer en Sauer-Bar pistols. Indeed, these are different from the Oberndorf C/c/U stamps. (I have five different sizes, used on Parabllum pistols between 1930 and (early) 1940.

During my research I have read somewhere that the double crown / U was admitted when there was not enough space for both the C/B and C/U stamps, like on early 'Terzerole' (Single shot target pistols). The first crown represented the 'Beschuss' (pressure test), the second crown belonged to the 'Untersuchung'; checking of the arm's parts that had been the subject to the high pressure.

The more we compare the stamps of the different German proof houses (1893-1939), the more we get convinced that they used different drawings and / or different suppliers for the dies.

In the book I placed pictures of five different sizes of the Oberndorf C/c/U stamps - usd between 1930 and 1940. But none is comparable with the stamps of your photographs.

Hey - you see that I did not forget the lessons you gave me three years ago!