October 28, 2009

Let's see... I really need the list of 60 Things Every Woman Should Have Before She Turns 60, but I'm still going to see if I've missed any of these 30, but the next 30 things — think about what they are — ought to be much more interesting.

Orgasm AND a vibrator AND a sex position preference AND a fav porn site?

Sounds like this list maker just wants women to have boring staples of sex that they can use to forgive themselves for being boring.

But as mentioned above, no kids? Women with kids are going to feel a heck of a lot better about life than those who are pleased to have enough charmin.

Feminism is not about being crude about the bathroom and bedroom in media. It's about being a real woman... with all the things that make a woman a woman, without having to compromise your goals and stature.

I would include: A favorite charity, a cause beyond yourself, 30 people who are better off for knowing you, a fund to leave to others in the event of your death, someone who calls you their best friend, etc.

1. Poverty2. Train travel3. Radio stardom4,5,6. Roles as Elizabeth I of England, Sarah Bernhardt and the last Tsarina of Russia7. Her own apartment8. An earthquake9. An earthquake fundraiser10. A politician11. Scandal12. A union presidency13. A secret marriage14. A church wedding15. Trousers16. A presidential campaign17. A rainbow tour18. The Cross of Isabel the Catholic19. An audience with the pope20. A Time magazine cover21. Hairdos22. Paris couture23. Cartier jewelry24. A charitable foundation25. Lepers26. Suffrage27. Mob appeal28. Cervical cancer29. Secular sainthood30. A musical

But as mentioned above, no kids? Women with kids are going to feel a heck of a lot better about life than those who are pleased to have enough charmin.

“Across the happiness data, the one thing in life that will make you less happy is having children,” said Betsey Stevenson, an assistant professor at Wharton who co-wrote a paper called “The Paradox of Declining Female Happiness.” “It’s true whether you’re wealthy or poor, if you have kids late or kids early."--NYT, 9/19/09

"Even if it's light hearted, it betrays a certain outlook on life that I find obnoxious. It reads like a list written by and for twenty-two year olds. I expect more from thirty than that."

This is my take on it, too.

On the other hand, I expect more but also expect less from a 30 year old mostly because I remember being 30.

On the one hand so much of it seems so utterly trivial. How hard is it *really* to find a competent person to do your hair? And (barring children) how likely is it that you're growing out of your clothes every five years? And *really* you should have been living within your means from about age 16. (You probably weren't, but you should have been.)

As for the sex part... I honestly don't get what is difficult about an orgasm... I can't quite imagine getting in the "mood" from a movie or song... and *really*, isn't a vibrator, besides risking discovery by a child looking for a pair of socks, unnecessary when going it alone and also, just possibly, is one reason these women don't know what they want a guy to do so they can get that elusive orgasm? Because seriously... men don't... um... vibrate.

"(After I got married, household TP consumption went up by a factor of at least five.)"

I once had a female housemate associated with the same phenomenon! I had two female housemates actually, and the phenomenon was only associated with the second one. The guy before her moved out, she moved in, and our toilet paper consumption went through the fucking roof. It was conspicuous consumption that called a lot of attention to it.

My daughter is 27 and I have to say that list totally rang true to me. Most of the commenters here (I am assuming a bit) are probably a bit beyond 30. Things have REALLY changed!!! 30 IS the new 20 and it is very frustrating for the parents, who were parents by 30, not working as baristas, uninsured, no savings, cutting each others' hair and running out of toilet paper with regularity (pun intended). I scanned the list and my daughter did rather well, and I saw that as an accomplishment, especially compared to those in her friend group. The sex references were fluff -but the health insurance, voter reg card, weekly income that covers rent,yearly appt with gyno and healthy relationship with parents will unfortunately disqualify A LOT of young women at 30.Read it and weep.

My daughter is 27 and I have to say that list totally rang true to me. Most of the commenters here (I am assuming a bit) are probably a bit beyond 30. Things have REALLY changed!!! 30 IS the new 20 and it is very frustrating for the parents, who were parents by 30, not working as baristas, uninsured, no savings, cutting each others' hair and running out of toilet paper with regularity (pun intended). I scanned the list and my daughter did rather well, and I saw that as an accomplishment, especially compared to those in her friend group. The sex references were fluff -but the health insurance, voter reg card, weekly income that covers rent,yearly appt with gyno and healthy relationship with parents will unfortunately disqualify A LOT of young women at 30.Read it and weep.

Henry's list is great! At the list of sounding old fashioned (tho others here have mentioned most of these already) I'd say the list might be improved by:

1) husband she is madly in love with (get rid of the vibrator, porn, etc.)

2) kids

3)faith and a church or other religious community she loves and can contribute to

4) military service

5) A dog (their characters are better than ours, so they improve us, as well as loving us more than we deserve)

6) Living near elderly relatives so she can help them out when they need her

7) local politics she can involve herself in

8) a good education

9) an honest job

10) A garden, because nothing punctures airy fantasies about Gaia and the benevolence of the great organic chain of being than squash borers pulping your squash vines. Gardeners are realistic, stubborn and eternally optimistic. Think how much Jefferson loved gardening.

I mean, seriously... those things are not an *option* anymore when you get married. You *might* still have a room-mate to help with rent, but generally you're scraping by, you buy your own toilet paper and groceries and you work to pay your rent. You might have to move in with mom and dad for a few months and be grateful, but that's generally a transitional thing as you figure out what you *have* to do to make it, not ding around living like a college student for years trying to find yourself and figure out what you want to do with your life... at which point you get married and everything changes anyway.

If 30 is the new 20 it's probably not the fault of the "kids", it's the fault of the "adults" telling them to "get established" first before going on with their lives.

31. Four years of military service.32. No credit card or student loan debt.33. Money in the bank, earned herself.34. A nice gun.35. A working understanding of football, baseball and hockey.36. Autonomy.37. A drug-free brain.38. Tattoos visible when dressed for work all removed.39. A good grill and smoker.40. A convertible.41. Craftsman tools.42. A well controlled Id.43. A set of tumblers for drinking whiskey neat.44. A place of her own, without roommates or parents.45. Stock.46. A good fly fishing rod, reel and tackle.47. Curiosity.48. Optimism49. Charity.50. An open heart.

If you are qualified (more people can't pass the physical than most people realize) and are the *least* inclined I heartily support this notion. (And if I can get through basic training...)

And it is most certainly a "do before you are 30, are married and have children" sort of thing (particularly if you're female).

I think the Army might still have enlistments of less than four years if four years seems like too much, but it's an experience that is completely unique that broadens your experience more than just about anything else short of the Peace Corps or a longer term missionary trip. The military itself is another culture... the equivalent of learning a foreign language improving your own... and if you get stationed overseas you get two foreign cultures under your life-experience belt for the price of one.

Or the Peace Corps, or a missionary trip longer than six months...

Seriously... if you don't get to reach 20 until you're 30 ANYWAY, why not actually do something during those years?

The name of reliable movers to give her friends when they ask for help relocating

How bout "being a decent enough person to help her friends move instead of pawning them off on movers"?

Synova, I don't think it's about getting married, but there are a lot of things you aren't going to learn if you never live on your own (meaning, not in your parents basement). I'm 31, so I'm pretty close to this list age, and two things I would definately have included are 1. have a savings plan for retirement 2. have a savings plan for regular expenses and future plans.

Gah, one more thing on the health insurance. When I graduated college at 22, my dad told me my new job better have health insurance, since I was getting kicked off his with graduation. Is that an unusual thing to hear from a parent?

Michael Hasenstab and others who have the military in their lists -- I'm all for that being an option, but bit a "should have," because most women aren't suited for military life. Unless they bring back the traditional WACS and WAVS -- but that will happen when pigs fly.

And re all that sports stuff Mr. Hasenstab again: I find sports (including fly fishing) boring and pointless. Again, being into such things shouldn't be a "should have." Remember, this list is loftily claiming to be things a woman "should have" by the time they are thirty. I suppose that goes for husband and kids too -- there are a few women who aren't suited for married life and motherhood, and shouldn't be foisted on a man or a kid. (Though I do think it is... interesting the way the writer didn't even mention marriage or kids -- she mentioned so many ephemeral, unimportant things; she might as well have added "a cute rock star whose poster on your wall you just HAVE to have!")

Now, I firmly believe that many people are not suited to military life, men included. OTOH, doing something hard, that turns out not to be your "thing", for a few years isn't at all the same thing as making a career of it. We should all do something hard that isn't our thing for a while. (Even if it means sticking to a job at McDonalds.)

Women aren't suited to particular highly physical career fields in the military, true enough. But it is also true that any job whatsoever that exists in civilian life exists in the military. I was a computer operator in a shop that was almost exactly like the computer mainframe buildings at the university and at a department store chain I worked at. The work was the same, too.

So if it's not the *job* what is so difficult for women about military life, what is it? Getting up early? Making beds neatly? Shining your boots? Showing up to work on time and following procedures? Keeping physically fit? Dressing neatly?

I really am not suggesting that *everyone* should spend a bit of time in the military. But it's really not something that can be judged from the outside. I always put a qualifier on my recommendation... if you think you *might* want to do it, do it. It's not a forever sort of decision, and if you hate it it will still build character and you'll still have *done* it. Which is something you can never say if you decide not to follow that impulse. And it's definitely an experience with a sell-by date. Young and child-less is the way to go.

Actually... in my experience the women in the military were "suited" to it while quite a few of the guys were utterly hopeless.

Not that some of the girls weren't hopeless too, but they still seemed to "get" it. Some of the guys needed constant mother-henning because they really couldn't follow a simple direction or find their butt with both hands. Now maybe it was just a case of pure numbers... way way more guys enlist than girls. Maybe it was self-selection... the hopeless guys never stopped to think that the military might not be their thing, maybe, because the military is a "guy thing"?

In any case, hopeless whiners or not, I really never met a female in the military who had trouble following rules or figuring out "the system." OTOH I did meet and work with young men who managed to strand themselves in foreign countries, or failed to even begin out-processing paperwork when they were told, or blew off a scheduled meeting with the First Sergeant and didn't realize that was *bad*.

(The female sergeants I knew sometimes had an uncanny and probably counter-productive (to the service) ability to work the system. OTOH, they knew how to get things done.)

When I graduated college at 22, my dad told me my new job better have health insurance, since I was getting kicked off his with graduation. Is that an unusual thing to hear from a parent?

I don't think it's unusual now, but if Obama Health Care goes through and health insurance is required or you get hit with a confiscatory tax, I think things will likely change. How many parents will be willing to see their kids incur a huge tax burden because they don't have health insurance? I have not heard one person address this aspect of the insurance mandate: it's a significant additional expense for parents, and provides a further disincentive to have children. Is that really the way we want to go?

Synova, re: women in the military. (I dare say this comment is so off topic that it will be deleted, but I read your comments with interest and chuckled at others) I considered joining the Navy (my dad had been in) back in the Dark Ages nearly 30 years ago, but decided against it as I didn't want to be a nurse or a secretary as most women were steered to be then in the service. Went to seminary instead (another woman who just didn't know her place!) but outran MANY, MANY husky young Marines in the Marine Corps Marathon.

One of our kids got into a service academy but ended up going to an Ivy instead, first in ROTC, now probably heading toward being a civilian doctor instead. Like me, a short mesomorph, mild mannered, feminine, loves men, but could carry a sixty pound pack without complaint (on Outward Bound the males whined far more than her about the bugs, etc.).

I agree with your point about self selection: I think women who consider the military are often better at following orders, working within the system in a disciplined fashion (if not "working" the system) than some brave, hyper young guy who thinks it would be cool to shoot up some bad guys after having spent his adolescence playing Halo 3 and World of Warcraft.

I think one real problem is that some guys (even heroic and decent ones who are good soldiers) still hate the idea of serving beside women, and certainly hate the idea of being ordered around by one. Chivalry/sexism/competitiveness/unfamiliarity/who knows why?

I have very little patience with men who see women as unfit for service because they stereotype them as moody, hormonal, weak, whiny, bitchy, etc. Or because they dismiss pretty women as hos and potentially disruptive in the military. Most civilian professional women these days have had to be disciplined, hard working, logical and negotiate enough social and occupational minefields that they can't afford the luxury of being a spoiled bratty wimp.

Of course some women in every field are hysterical ninnies. But equal numbers of guys are posturing bullies who would be equally unfit for the service of their country.

I am still staggered by the frivolity and selfishness of that initial list...not to be a judgmental jerk, but I can't imagine the emptiness and boredom of a life worrying about things like toilet paper, vibrators and the fit of one's underwear...

I'll second you on that sports bit, at least as far as "spectator sports" go. Now my own kids playing football, wrestling, or heck even basketball in high school is a completely different matter. But what the Seahawks/Mariners/um.. err... hmm.... Sonics (whatever happened to them?) do is a matter of supreme indifference to me.

I am enjoying, by the way, some of the comments above made by women who think that women aren't suited for military life. Whiney, whiney. Try getting in shape while in high school or college. Subject yourself to a few years of discipline and dedication to cause.

And don't tell your feminist sisters that a woman doesn't belong in the military. Sheesh.

I once worked with a lovely woman with hair down to the middle of her back, who looked to be the older sister of her high school aged daughter. She rushed home to their little farm every night of the week except two: the night she practiced with her handgun at the range, and the night she did cardio kickboxing. She drove a Suburban, not a convertible, though.

Meade, starting a new life at our age is totally awesome. It's as if we can live two lives in one. I hope that you and the Mrs. experience a Grandchild. But if you don't, you have each other to explore the Earth together as you have in the Marriage Mountain Vortex.

Aw Howzerdo, I like your list because it makes me want to check things off!

Question, I'm a southern girl, but what is "hayin'"? Just shoveling hay, or a hay ride or something more complicated? Also, Raw milk is hard to find, I hate scrapbooking, and we don't have enough snow to make ice cream out of it but I've done most everything else.

Shanna: thanks. You are allowed to use ice instead of snow in the south for the homemade ice cream :-). Some were a lot more profound than others! Some got added just to make 48, and others were forgotten. But hayin' is one of the most profound, I think. It is a memory I will always cherish when the point comes in the future where I don't do it any more. It is being part of a (hopefully large) group that is getting in hay as it is baled in the summer - stacking the bales in clusters of three or four in the field, driving the equipment to pick it up, loading the bales on trucks and trailers, riding to the barn on the hay, throwing the bales on the hay elevator, counting the bales as they come in, being up in the mow fitting the bales in (the last job is the hardest - it is dusty and hot). Afterwards, sometimes there is swimming - but always there are food, fellowship, discussing the year's hay quality, and reminiscing about past hayin' (sweaty clothes mandatory). Then there are the pre-requisites: checking the soil, monitoring the hay as it grows, planning when to cut it, and most important: worrying about whether there will be three days in a row of no rain!

Wow, I'm surprised nobody has mentioned Heinlein yet. And since I have his list close at hand, I will remedy that omission.

"A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects."

Notice he doesn't distinguish between men and women: "A human being should be able to..."