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Re: New draft/FA/offseason thread

As far as value goes, I'd be ecstatic.
RZ threat + solid route runner + rangy WILB = success!
Eifert might be there, but just on a relative scale, I have Ogletree with slightly higher value than Bailey, so I'd flip 'em.

Ah yeah, didn't mean to put them in order value . But because of Baileys size (or lack of) he looks to be a late second rounder to me too, could be a Ray Rice type pick. Boy we need another Ray Rice type pick on this offense.

Re: New draft/FA/offseason thread

Originally Posted by leachisabeast

I was thinking that Doss would be the number 2 guy, with a guy like Baily coming in to fill the slot position in an Antonio Brown type role. If Smith can become as good as Wallace, and Doss can be similar to Decker, and I actually am willing to go on a limb and say that Baily will be as good as Brown in the NFL, then that's a formidable WR core. There is a lot of IFs there, but all are possibilities, or close to it. Also if we get an amazing athletic TE like Eifert it keeps the number 1 receiver thing a little less important. The Patriots for example don't really have that one guy at WR who can take over a game, Brandon loyd is really good, but he isn't in that top tier.

I know a lot of draft sites and whatnot are projecting Bailey as more of a slot guy in the NFL, but he lined up exclusively at split end/left wide receiver at WVU and I'm usually a fan of keeping guys at the positions they played in college if we can do it. He definitely could play in the slot but I think he can win on the outside in the NFL, he really has some Steve Smith to him and Steve Smith only plays outside, not inside.

I think Doss is a better fit for the slot, get him lined up against a nickel corner and he can use his size, get him lined up against a linebacker and he can use his quickness... we should use him like the Saints use Marques Colston, who actually lines up in the slot a lot to create a mismatch and runs a lot of seam routes in the middle of the field. I do see some Decker in Doss though so he can also play on the outside.

I do like the Smith-Doss-Bailey top 3, I just really hope with some better coaching Torrey can start learning to see the ball better in the air and run better routes, he won't be as good as Mike Wallace unless he develops those skills more. IMO we need to move to a WCO with power zone running that centers around throwing the ball short to the middle of the field to Pitta and Doss, then opens up the sidelines for a few deep shots to Torrey, all mixed in with zone runs up the middle and to the edges. That's the offense our personnel would be best for.

Re: New draft/FA/offseason thread

Originally Posted by bmorecareful

If they cut Anquan and/or Jacoby I would put #1 WR up to the priority level. All the other top teams in the NFL realize now that you simply have to have a bunch of elite pieces on offense to compete, we have literally 1 elite piece on offense and that's Ray Rice, you gotta upgrade around your QB whether that's Flacco or somebody else.

I agree in principal, but I don't see a #1 WR (day 1 starter) in this draft. Chances are that at least one guy from 2013 will become a #1, but there's certainly no Green, Jones or Bryant (it finally appears). Now maybe there's a Demaryius Thomas type out there...talented, but not yet truly proven.

For us, I'm looking at Torrey and Doss out wide and for the slot I want the guy with the best "get off". That's where I landed on Quinton Patton above. Tall for the slot at 6'2, with average leg turnover, but man his feet are impressive.

Re: New draft/FA/offseason thread

Originally Posted by BigPlayReceiver

I agree in principal, but I don't see a #1 WR (day 1 starter) in this draft. Chances are that at least one guy from 2013 will become a #1, but there's certainly no Green, Jones or Bryant (it finally appears). Now maybe there's a Demaryius Thomas type out there...talented, but not yet truly proven.

For us, I'm looking at Torrey and Doss out wide and for the slot I want the guy with the best "get off". That's where I landed on Quinton Patton above. Tall for the slot at 6'2, with average leg turnover, but man his feet are impressive.

There definitely isn't a "6'4 with great leaping ability and unnatural athleticism for his size" type in this draft, at least not at the level of an AJ Green or Julio Jones, but not every #1 WR needs to be built like that. Pound for pound, Percy Harvin is one of the league's best WRs at 5'10 175, Steve Smith was an incredibly underrated player for forever in Carolina, etc. etc.

When I say #1 WR, we just need a guy who consistently wins man to man on the outside. We actually don't have ANY of those guys right now, Boldin is physically one of the least gifted WRs in the NFL right now and his route running has never been elite. Torrey Smith has great speed but must improve in a lot of areas and even then I think he can only be a great #2.

I actually think the slot position is going to be covered by Doss. He has an ideal skill set for the position, frankly I like Quinton Patton but his skill set is so close to Doss why go out and get such a similar player? Patton does have excellent feet for his size, but Doss looks like a superior route runner at this point. When we go 3 wide Doss should slide inside to the slot, we need another perimeter WR to come in on the left side, and that's where Stedman Bailey belongs IMO.

Re: New draft/FA/offseason thread

Manti Te'o is a BEAST and I wish we were in a position to get him, he's a play maker in the Ray Lewis/Patrick Willis mold with all the leadership qualities, etc. That being said, I think we'd be better served taking a multiple "good" ILB in this draft, and I'd want some combination of Arthur Brown/Alec Ogletree plus Jonathan Bostic. I think two young guys plus resigning Ellerbe could give a nice group of ILBs.

Re: New draft/FA/offseason thread

The more I think about it, the more I want Barrett Jones with the first draft pick (especially if Flacco is signed long term). At worst, you're getting a top notch G/C and at best he pushes Oher inside to LG and takes over at LT. His ability to move around and compete at any OL spot makes the line that much stronger.
If Gradkowski shows he's ready next year, Jones/Oher/Grad/Yanda/Osemele could be a beast of a line. If he's not ready (and someone else hasn't been drafted) Jones' ability to move means you can plug in the best value from other teams' cuts and aren't going to be limited to needing specifically a guard or specifically a center. You can grab the best possible guy and plug Jones in at the other slot.
There's to much needed on the D side of the ball to think one guy can fix everything, but that may be the case with Jones and the offense.

There's also enough talent at ILB & S that you can probably fill both of those with 2nd & 3rd picks. I just don't see that option on the OL.

Re: New draft/FA/offseason thread

Originally Posted by OhThePossibilities

The more I think about it, the more I want Barrett Jones with the first draft pick (especially if Flacco is signed long term). At worst, you're getting a top notch G/C and at best he pushes Oher inside to LG and takes over at LT. His ability to move around and compete at any OL spot makes the line that much stronger.
If Gradkowski shows he's ready next year, Jones/Oher/Grad/Yanda/Osemele could be a beast of a line. If he's not ready (and someone else hasn't been drafted) Jones' ability to move means you can plug in the best value from other teams' cuts and aren't going to be limited to needing specifically a guard or specifically a center. You can grab the best possible guy and plug Jones in at the other slot.
There's to much needed on the D side of the ball to think one guy can fix everything, but that may be the case with Jones and the offense.

There's also enough talent at ILB & S that you can probably fill both of those with 2nd & 3rd picks. I just don't see that option on the OL.

I was actually JUST thinking recently that Barrett Jones really looks like a strong possibility in the first round. He's pretty much a lock to solve one of the 3 problems (LT, LG, C) on our line, all the coaching staff needs to do is pick the position they like him in most. I would love to see him step up and play LT, allowing Oher to kick inside to LG and Gradkowski to take over at C.

The other possibility is Oher sticking at LT. I've been thinking about it lately, and I think we should not be surprised if the coaching staff refuses to move Oher away from LT next year. He's been bad at the position this year, but perhaps he could improve with better coaching and refinement of his technique. He has the athleticism and feet, which can't be taught, and he could possibly improve his use of hands and mirroring, which CAN be taught. The coaching staff is deeply in love with him and we know they're looking to extend him this offseason.

I don't really like the notion of Oher sticking at LT, but he HAS played at a high level some games this year, and if he could become even consistently average it would be a big upgrade. I want us to move to a WCO next year anyway with shorter drops, rollouts, and a better running game, and that should put less pressure on Oher to hold up for several seconds on isolation blocks. Barrett Jones could easily be an All-Pro LG which might ease some pressure on Oher as well and greatly improve our run game.

Re: New draft/FA/offseason thread

Originally Posted by bmorecareful

I was actually JUST thinking recently that Barrett Jones really looks like a strong possibility in the first round. He's pretty much a lock to solve one of the 3 problems (LT, LG, C) on our line, all the coaching staff needs to do is pick the position they like him in most. I would love to see him step up and play LT, allowing Oher to kick inside to LG and Gradkowski to take over at C.

The other possibility is Oher sticking at LT. I've been thinking about it lately, and I think we should not be surprised if the coaching staff refuses to move Oher away from LT next year. He's been bad at the position this year, but perhaps he could improve with better coaching and refinement of his technique. He has the athleticism and feet, which can't be taught, and he could possibly improve his use of hands and mirroring, which CAN be taught. The coaching staff is deeply in love with him and we know they're looking to extend him this offseason.

I don't really like the notion of Oher sticking at LT, but he HAS played at a high level some games this year, and if he could become even consistently average it would be a big upgrade. I want us to move to a WCO next year anyway with shorter drops, rollouts, and a better running game, and that should put less pressure on Oher to hold up for several seconds on isolation blocks. Barrett Jones could easily be an All-Pro LG which might ease some pressure on Oher as well and greatly improve our run game.

LOVE Barret Jones, but I don't think he's a LT.
I think he is absolutely a trget of ours in the first round.

I also thinkt he Coaches will continue to play Oher at LT forever, no matter how bad he continues to play for how long. It's really to the point where I think they don't care hwo he plays as long as he works hard, whichis funny, since his technique hasn't improved in 4 years, heis level of play has declined, and has only marginally improved his penalties. Funny how little hard work is helping him. He was a finished product in college, his rookie year was as good as he will ever be.

I like Jones but not as that 1st round "difference maker" that I'm looking for b/c 1) I'm rolling with the assumption that the FO thinks Gino is the C for 2013 (as uncomfortable as that assumption makes me), and 2) I'm not yet convinced that Jones is a quality T.

"On their way to the podium, the Ravens FO is going to collectively step over my dead body and select...Breshad Perriman." -- Me, the day before the Draft

Re: New draft/FA/offseason thread

Jones is not gifted athletically enough to be a good LT in the NFL, and even at C he got dominated up front at the hands of John Jenkins a number of times in the SEC game. I don't think he's worth a first round pick, but someone to look out for if we trade back into the second.

Re: New draft/FA/offseason thread

Originally Posted by BigPlayReceiver

I like Jones but not as that 1st round "difference maker" that I'm looking for b/c 1) I'm rolling with the assumption that the FO thinks Gino is the C for 2013 (as uncomfortable as that assumption makes me), and 2) I'm not yet convinced that Jones is a quality T.

I agree about Jones, i like him as a player as well, just dont know how good of a LT he'd be. I think he can play it, im not sure if he can excel, i want my first round pick to have the upside to excel, if you move him to LG i think he's better off but i want a stud if i take a LG in the first round. I think he could play Center effectively as well but i like Gino and his upside.

As far as Gino i get people's concern but i think if they can bulk him up this offseason and get him some reps in preseason and at training camp and preseason i think he'll be ok.

Re: New draft/FA/offseason thread

I tell you what...the more I've been watching Ellerbe play this year, the less of a huge need at ILB I think we have...he just has to get better in his drops and zone awareness and I think we'd have a stud.

I still think we should take another ILB though in the first 3 rounds as I think we should let McClain go.

Although Walsh's system of offense can compensate for lack of talent; however, defense is a different story. According to Walsh, talent on defense was essential and could not be compensated for. What did Walsh do in 1981? He acquired physical and talented players on defense.