From the book Dawn of the Awakened Mind
John S. King, M.D.
Founder and President of the Canadian Society of Psychical Research

Hypatia brings her philosopher
colleagues Socrates, Plato and Aristotle for a talk

[NOTE : I wish here to make an explanation, which may prevent
misapprehension by the reader, in the interpretation of certain statements found
in the pages of the present chapter, viz.: The chapter was not included here
until much of what follows it was completed; as it was my intention to assign
it to another publication; while the reason for the change is, that I desired
my interview with the philosophers to immediately follow my interview with
Hypatia—herself a philosopher of that age—upon the same subjects; and because it
was due to her intercession, in response to my wish, that I was fortunate enough
to secure so valued an opportunity. JSK.]

To this psychological session I brought with me several previously written
questions, sufficient to secure from the alleged philosophers their present view
on the mind and soul questions, should Hypatia succeed in securing their
presence.

With the questions in my pocket, and with grave doubts in my mind as to
whether I could or would have so great a privilege, as to secure their views,
expressed as of their present knowledge; and as the first two days of my sojourn
were to be occupied as I had already arranged, I asked Hypatia if my wish could
be gratified on the third day, by devoting it chiefly to the purpose mentioned.

Hypatia in that gracious manner characteristic of her every effort to meet my
wish, wrote in reply to my question, through the automatic hand, I hope to have
them here, and will do my best to accomplish it.

When the day and hour selected had arrived, with the psychic seated at the
table, I asked the question which I had then in mind.

JSK.. Hypatia, do the philosophers know anything regarding what is
contained in my writings as to mind, soul and spirit; or the other features of
the book I am compiling?

HYPATIA. Aristotle is in interest near to me, and well informed regarding the
nature of your work; and he doubtless communicated with the others, since I
requested them to be present here.

JSK.. Hypatia, if Socrates, Plato and Aristotle are all here, I am indeed
most grateful to them; and hope they will forgive me, if I questions ask each
one of them, during this extended session, for I have strong mental hunger, or
wish to know. The questions I will read aloud.

HYPATIA. All three are here. 'Tis best to so proceed as you suggest, and we
will write for you.

Before I had further time for remark or for question, the psychic began to
automatically write rapidly without stop, the following response from Plato,
viz.:

PLATO. We see as you now do, and in regard to soul, we too believe it is the
whole, and body but machinery, which is result of soul degree. One may be tall
or short, or thin or stout to some degree, no matter what his thoughts may be.
I, Plato, was a man of power, and named as broad in shoulders so, but I was
narrow in my thoughts as now I see and know; and as you ask me I will do. I do
not think that I am cognizant of all your book; but we are present here today to
hear and see, and also say an answer back to you, if you request us so to do. I
idealized the human life, and made the soul of man to be superior, or of lasting
quality; but what it was, and where it went, I could not tell as well as you;
and so I listen here today, and much approve of what to you is plain. The
working of the lower brain was to me not apparent, so I could not teach what I
had not the power to know. We did not know the power of one living mind over
another in my day (hypnotic). That study is as modern new, and is there well
described by you. I had in mind a wish to know, and followed with my teacher
Socrates, along each line of knowledge or surmise; and what we gained thereby
was aided by the souls exalted near, but this I did not know was so.

When Socrates was lifted from his clay, I looked and wept beside his bier;
and prayed as you, that he might be allowed to follow through my life with me. I
sometimes saw him in a dream like sleep; but he was gone, and I alone to weep.
It has been so for years—two thousand now—and you are one to make it plain by
arguments, not faith and hope alone. I thought and wished it true, but could not
prove as you. If I could have proved even one step, I should have been proud
indeed. I had a pupil Aristotle, he was teacher of a king called great. I taught
the King of Syracuse, but he rewarded me by slavery; and yet I led the thought
of men, so they by ransom set me free to found a University. So you may arouse
arguments, and if 'tis so, 'twill lead to glory, and not to future woe. All that
you do is brought to me by those who love me honestly; and I approve of all you
do to prove what I now know is true. I did not come direct to you, but learned
from Aristotle, what one visited by him had done for men, to prove that spirits
come again. If I have failed before, I will not do so any more; but will stand
ever ready here to aid you, till you're in the bier. I'll answer the questions
you ask.

JSK.. What would be your present definition of soul? Of what composed?
Have you knowledge of Reincarnation?

PLATO. My present definition of soul is, that which occupies the body as a
whole in life, and at death departs a whole to be, of what the mortal is and
was, and is to be, a living himself in capacity to use what God's laws bring
to hand, for his best powers to command. In earth life, or physical body life,
five senses seem to be sufficient for his need; and out of matter living cells
are taken, to replace the wear and tear of the anatomy, which like to a
machinery generates forces needed to bring harmony of soul till he by death is
from the body free; then added senses come to wakened state, and what he needs
in forces wait for his command; and higher thinkers teach him how to rightly
understand, or use what is his own, as in earth life 'tis also true, as was the
work of me, or you. Hunger of soul exists, this is twofold as I might say,
hunger for love or companionship; and hunger for entertainment and knowledge.

Appetites, normal ones, are voice of God, or spirit which is part of God, but
Ego made complete in individuality, after a mortal birth as I now see.

To undergo reincarnation is not true from literal or mortal view; but minds
deprived of proper growth in mortal state, will be allowed, or forced to undergo
a second living like to human life, so they in soul to proper state may grow. We
all assist in work of love for minds of mortal plan, just as you work sad and
alone, to aid your fellow-men, who feel your woe, but do not consolation know.
Ideas are expressed and proved in this new work called Dawn of the Awakened
Mind, and it will be of use to men, where simply ideality is useless quite
entirely.

[The psychic's mother here intimated that lunch will be ready, when it suits
your convenience.]

Plato here interjected, through the psychic's hand, this remark, I will be
here, if you must go, you will not thus disturb me.
[To the psychic—at the moment objectively normal—the author suggested a few
minutes more, and then it would be 1 PM, which might be followed by a recess
for our spirit friends and ourselves, of one hour, which was adopted.]

JSK.. Have you present belief in immortality, or have you knowledge that a
human ego has immortal life?

PLATO. We have not knowledge of the Deity. As individual I have been allowed
to meet men of exalted state, who tell me they are children yet, and never need
to wait for something new, so I believe in immortality as part of God or Deity
begun. I will be so, no matter where or how I go; and injury but sets me back,
as lightning jars the trunk of tree, but makes the root more strong to be, for
future growth. So I observe and believe that when a being does his best, a
spirit beautiful and good, will plan and guide the rest.

JSK.. Can you define or demonstrate your human personality, to a critical
psychologist of the present day?

PLATO. I would describe it as a thing which has the power to hold past
knowledge; and has power to gain and grow by added knowing gained from sources
new, no matter what forms it passes through.

[The writing stopped at 1 PM, we went and had lunch, and were back in our
seats at 2 PM, when the psychic's hand again began to write. JSK..]

PLATO continuing. I will add further that it is of form or characteristics,
uniform or typical of its own individuality, through all these its powers to do;
and all the changes it passes through tend to, and do cause it to grow, and
improve, and become God-like, or more to its ideality of what perfected man
should be. Beneath a rod of beauty, of comparison, we spirits free are here
allowed to grow and be, and as we improve, we become radiant; and as we
retrograde we become darkened in degree.

JSK.. Are my views as recorded in my book such as you can endorse as true?

PLATO. I can endorse them all as true, and wonder at your power to do so
well, regarding what is hard to tell; or what is to the language of all men,
hard to encompass true, so reader shall think as you do.

JSK.. Had you in human life knowledge of, or the power to control the mind
of a fellow human by suggestion to the subjective mind, which is now known as
hypnotic power of suggestion; by which means you now convey your thoughts to me
through the subjective mind of the psychic, who conforms to your dictation to
her subjective mind, to transcribe in writing, what do you wish me to know?

PLATO. I had knowledge of it in a superficial way; but did not know its
source, or limitations; or whether it was natural, or morbid. No one of my time
that I knew, had thought of it as false or true.

JSK.. Will you kindly explain for the benefit of readers who may wish to
know, how it is possible for me to have attunement with yourself, or with others
in spirit life, such as the example I gave elsewhere regarding my corresponding
friend Wm. T. Stead, then in spirit life, calling my attention to the
interesting fact that he sensed my thoughts toward him at a particular time,
which was mentioned?

PLATO. An attunement is a track unseen, over which thoughts and answerings
may flow, like to communication to and fro; and if no spirit sense in you
awakened be, we use your intuition key; or that which leads a horse to drink, a
wiser power than 'tis to think. Wise in this sense means more perfect or exact;
or less to be questioned than is judgment born of reason, which starts from the
limited premises of human power to sense.

[A break or interruption here occurs to the writing of Plato, and its place
is taken by the following in explanation. It is the wish of the discarnate
spirits mentioned on your tablet page, especially to do the very things you ask
them to; and so when you requested it to be, he, Wm. T. Stead, brought to bear
his wish to do; and other guides assisted him to be able to thus present to you
the fact he sensed you; and he knew your wish to be able to thus express to him,
this truth—The attunement, between author and Wm. T. Stead.]

JSK. Does the evidence presented in my book in your judgment sustain the
claim I make regarding , 1st, Continuity of Life; 2nd, Spirit Return; and 3rd,
Spirit Communion?

PLATO. It is my opinion that the evidence compiled for your book, Dawn of
the Awakened Mind, is very conclusive, because it takes up normal mentality
from your developed student view; and distinctly tells where its powers end;
and so produces the necessity of belief, that added suggestion must be given to
produce the effects observed by you, and nearly always others present with you.
In your belief you are candid and honest, and men like to you, will follow your reasonings with interest in every step; and the how you come to your
conclusions is so well explained, that they will wish to be able to do, as you
in printing say, that you have had the power to do. Doubting Thomases will ever
be, or those who do not wish to know; but honest thinkers lost in mist of facts,
mixed in with theory, will be assisted by the steps you make; and what you
teach will aid them to go forward, and proceed with care, and learn much of the
Over There.

JSK. Were not the various dogmas, theories and plans of all the
philosophers speculative and idealistic?

PLATO. In our time we had superstitions of peculiar types to combat, and
idealism was the basis of most of my philosophy. Gods, heroes and men with
mythological powers, were to the generality of men like to realities at then.

JSK. Is not the soul the nucleus of the origin of each human activity of
whatsoever sort?

PLATO. Oh yes, a soul or ego, like to a cell of a human body, selects its
food from what comes within its reach; and morbid or unwholesome food may be
taken, when it is deprived of what is wholesome to its state of best
development.

JSK. If you know what my views and thoughts are regarding mind, soul, and
spirit, have you also knowledge of the other consecutive contents of the book as
it is prepared for general readers?

PLATO. I have been informed of the contents of your book by Aristotle, as I
before have said. Hypatia's interest in my teachings, and in the teachings of my
pupil Aristotle, have caused us all to be in touch to her capacity to come and
go, and let us know.

JSK. I try to make clear to reader that the dual mind functions for both
soul and body in the incarnate state in the human; and at the parting called
death, the mind still functions for the soul ego; and new senses, attributes
and powers are manifest. Can you, friend Plato, confirm this from your own
experiences, as a solution of this special psychic problem?

PLATO. It is difficult to define and picture intangible things, but the
functions of each portion of mind observable by man, are in your book well
defined, it seems to me. The mind and soul are like to the growing tree, the,
body more like the pot in which it grows, but that does not of necessity combat
or change your definition. It is the same in appearance, as what the body would
be if perfect. Scars, illness and evil fate to body do not change appearance of
the soul. The soul is copied by matter in the growth of body.

JSK. Have you knowledge and experience regarding the flight of the
incarnate Ego. My Ego has visited relatives and friends at varying
distances, and in various directions, and has been seen and heard by them; but
I do not wish it so unless by my own desire, except it be for some wise or
important purpose, and conducted by exalted spirits connected with my band.

PLATO. Your body is pervaded by a thing etherial, and of certain habit, and
of certain size, call it what you will, it is the habitation of the man, when
death of body comes. This body may go forth, as you so did, by other ego in
attunement—like to you—being in space it occupied in your anatomy. This thing I
speak of is not divisible, it cannot be abbreviated or changed in its
appearance, or capacity, but it may be limited in its freedom.

You yourself, with the body were, and spoke to friend as you now speak to her
(the psychic), and while Marconi-like conditions existed between yourself and
your anatomy you were at ease even though free, and loving spirit hands like
bands produced this power to do in you, and aided the friend to be able to hear,
and able to see. It pleases me, whatever you have wish to do, I, Plato, am with
other two, and all of us wish to serve you. (See Hypatia's explanation
elsewhere.)

[NOTE: The communications from Aristotle follow those from Plato. They are
the first of extended length which I have received from him.]

Several years ago a control speaking through the vocal organs of a psychic
while entranced claimed to be Aristotle; but only a sentence or two were spoken
at the time, and really no conversation was entered into to confirm an opinion,
and hence no evidence to my mind was presented which would establish any view.

Again through another trance psychic, a year or two later, in Hamilton,
Canada, while entranced, some intelligence utilized the vocal organs to give
expression to thoughts which were philosophic in character and claimed to be
Aristotle, and spoke a sentence or two, as in the former instance. A third time,
a call was made upon me in the trumpet séance held in New York State, only a
short time ago. The medium who held the séance to which I refer was under the
control of Gray Feather, the strong Indian guide and control of J. B. Jonson, of Ohio, who took the place on two
occasions of the psychic's own guide. Then for the first time, Aristotle, as he
alleged himself to be, conversed with me by the aid of a trumpet, the date being
the fourth of August, 1912, and his speech conveyed the impression that his
words were those of a wise man; and one of much experience; and were of a
character that made them seem similar to those which found expression through
two other psychics, who were in the trance state. As I felt deeply interested in
this personality, I invited him to meet me at the home of the
Human-Psychic-Telephone that same afternoon, which he did; and there did write
for me beginning at the hour of 4.15 P.M. and what next follows is what he wrote
through the automatic hand, viz.:

ARISTOTLE. I, a philosopher of long ago, worked on the problem of the power
of thought, and how the mind divine, and mind of man, could be so placed in
unison by certain laws of behavior and speech, and so your Dawn of the Awakened
Mind appeals to me. I had to shape each dart of thought, as from my heart it
flew, and I am interested in this careful work you do. This carving out of
stepping stones up cliffs of known degree, that lead to flights above the stars,
it much appeals to me; and so as a philosopher, I came and spoke to you in
trumpet séance (a confirmation); and I will aid you all I can in this work that
you do.

The present interview will do more than confirm what had preceded it, and
goes far to establish the reputation, and the identity of this famous
philosopher.

I may add to the foregoing, that my questions all were read aloud by myself,
while responses came immediately, and were there and then recorded, in my
note-book, by the hand of my psychic, using my fountain pen; and when written
and finished, were handed to me without copy, change or additions while under my
sight from first to last. Though the questions were prepared by me, they were
offered viva voce or read from the page on which they were written, and the
answers came without hesitation or delay, and were as written by my own fountain
pen, in the psychic's hand; which pen has come to be almost a psychic pen, for
it has had its guidance by hundreds of different forces, or separate
intelligences.

But to return to the communications. After the assurance that Aristotle was
present and ready to write, I proceeded with my questioning.

JSK. Aristotle, I desire to know your views upon the subjects I embraced
in the chapters on mind and the soul, in its present and future state. As you
have evinced an interest in my researches, and my proposed publications, as
shown by your communications, audibly and also through this writing psychic, I
feel a strong desire to attune myself to you at this time, and request from you
your present view, regarding these selfsame subjects. With many of your former
views no doubt changed, as have my own, I desire to learn from you if what my
book presents to mortal view regarding mind and soul or spirit is the truth, as
you now know it.

ARISTOTLE. I agree with you that what you are at birth. you are at every
future state, with modified degree of fate. A violet in nature never becomes a
lily or a rose; and men are varied like to flowers, but each a one alone, or
white, or pink or blue, as he was from the seed, but strong or frail, by
circumstance of fate. Set out a rose, and rose 'twill stay, and when a man's
soul blossoms in the light of God, his spirit beautified by added privileges, is
still his spirit only and alone.

JSK. Do you agree with what I claim that the discarnate spirit or soul of
each human presents the same personality, that formerly existed in the incarnate
state?

ARISTOTLE. My present view is like to you. The garment body as a man is cast
aside at death; and like to butterfly, the soul set free, but uses what it had
in body crysalistic state, but for its growth it had no wait.

JSK. What would be your present definition of soul?

ARISTOTLE. My definition of soul, if well expressed, would mean the whole.
The body, if one could speak true, is but its tenement of clay, in which
imprisoned for a day, it holds itself alone complete, till called or wafted to
God's throne it comes into its very own, or comes into its power to be complete
in powers men cannot see or sense no matter how they try. Yourself is taken to
the sky, and what remains is nought to you. As to the body of yourself, at
three, it is now gone entirely, and nothing but your memory retains its form, or
semblance. So 'tis with life here through which you go. Your acts are all
recorded where they may be found by you; but you have entered into state that's
altogether new, and body has no part with you.

ARISTOTLE. It is composed of substances to spirits only tangible, to man
material 'tis nothingness. If you were able to communicate with me, by your
latent spirit faculty, I should not have so done, or needed to; but as it was
material I had to be, to come to earth and talk to thee; and so to do. I take a
transient body like to you, made from substances of small degree, that for the
purpose moving rapidly, they impress man as a reality. Matter does not exist, by
the way; but is as scientists believe and know, made up of Eons plus and minus
so they seem to be to man as a reality.

J: S. K. Have you present belief in or actual knowledge of Immortality?

ARISTOTLE. I have present knowledge that it is true, that I am part of God
complete, and may use matter as a means to be able to so communicate with you,
and aid you in the work you do, which is to teach the present age to realize
that it has reached a stage of flood tide of experience; and you show this flood
or current where it is to go, to reach its wish to sense or know that it may
find its living dead, after their powers of earth have fled.

JSK. Is re-incarnation of spirit a fact recognized by you, or is the word
misapplied, or misunderstood?

ARISTOTLE. Reincarnation is a fact recognized by me from my standpoint.
Undeveloped discarnate spirits are replaced in earth life experiences of health
and good, until they grow to learn and know. But into babes born on the earth
they never go, and it was not intended it should be so understood; but literal
minds so believed from teaching true given by ancient psychics to the men who
listened near.

Reincarnation is not allowable in fact, but souls discarnate are allowed to
act as aids or helps to men, who may not ever be informed that this is true,
that spirits may return to you.

JSK. How can you demonstrate or define your human personality to me, or
to any critical psychologist of the present day ?

ARISTOTLE. My personality is made up of my inherited traits, added to by the
results of impressions made upon my power to sense, by my senses five, while in
body, and added ones here, for instance, as a babe I discovered light, and
learned to know it through my organ eye, but what I saw in color or degree,
would not be just what any other eye would see. Each picturing of my imagining
is my very own, for it is made of what I saw or heard, or sensed; and as this
premise was a different one from every other one in life, each picture so
created would be mine alone. These are retained in record, and to me they are my
worn geography, in which I trace the way I learned to know my Master's face.

JSK. I understand, through Hypatia, that you are cognizant of much, if
not all that I have written for the book I am now compiling. Are my views as
there recorded such as you can endorse as true?

ARISTOTLE. I can endorse as true, that spirits may return to you, for I am
one of those who do. I also endorse your way of seemingly agreeing with a
possible argument, and then showing its weakness later in what you say or prove.
Dawn of the Awakened Mind is good from many points of view. It is impersonal.
It treats of facts you have experienced; of disappointments you have been
through; and of consequent joy in revelations new, and by added observers
certified to as true.

JSK. Does the evidence in my book, in your judgment, sustain the claim I
make regarding 1st, Continuity, 2nd, Spirit Return, and 3rd, Spirit Communion?

ARISTOTLE. The evidence of Indian girl (spirit of Pansy), who, as you say,
described location of pictures in your home of which you were not aware, but
later comprehended and confirmed as true. Your symbology is good, starting
proof, afterwards fulfillment of promises through different psychics having no
acquaintance or possible collusion is to me a very positive proof. The
disappointment of the man Stead in not being able to use the ones you hoped he
would, and yet used others strange to you. The change of heart or mind in girl
after messages were corroborated. The rose experience, interesting and
convincing, because of success after long lapse of time. Your wife's fulfillment
of ante-mortem agreement is also strikingly convincing.

JSK. Were not the various dogmas, theories and plans of all the
philosophers speculative?

ARISTOTLE. All of the dogmas were speculative, but many had origin in some
form of supposed revelation either real or imagery. Myths were means of
picturing desirable results from good acts to a primitive savage people.

JSK. In my human life I have experienced great change in view from youth
to advanced adult life; and so I presume that your centuries of experience in
spirit spheres enables you to discern changes in character and number quite a
few in your belief of then, your human life, and what now you know.

ARISTOTLE. We do not cast aside the rudiments of our arithmetic; so with my
teachings, I but attained the rudiments of what to you in wholeness or
completeness have proved true.

I grew with added knowledge to see the errors or incompleteness of my human
theory; and yet to men in my time, it was new and grand, and difficult for them
to understand.

JSK. Is not mind a necessity for the functioning of soul, and like to a
highly skilled workman, qualified to solve difficult problems of construction or
performance; whether on the one hand it be reasoning out or developing human
attributes; or on the other classifying the memory records, and the culture and
development of the Divine attributes, or those attuned to the Over-soul ?

ARISTOTLE. Mind and reason are necessities to the soul, but mind is like an
organ, and reason what it does. Reason is a function of the mind, or mentality.
Instinct and moral impulse are from the soul. I entertained theories founded
upon very limited knowledge. As my knowledge increased my belief was changed, so
that I now believe as you, that what is man is God, and so is indestructible; but it may as it advances become above or without
the necessity of fixed apparent form. A body is a means of holding and
withholding and as spirit becomes Godlike, it loses the need of restraint and
protection. It is true to this extent, I remain myself and on record in my
memory, and recorded in fact are the feature and form I had in human life, and
in after spirit state. If I materialize in any sphere, I'll be as I was when I
was native there; but when the need of doing ends, I leave my body and proceed
to be, as to her now a soul set free.

[NOTE: At 5 PM. the interview with Aristotle ended; and in view of all
the subjects dealt with, and the time consumed, I feel it to be wise to leave to
Socrates the field, to speak upon such matters as his wisdom and my requirements
would suggest to him as of most advantage, in the object sought by this special
session. JSK.]

Next following is the deliverance of Socrates.

SOCRATES. As you wish to do so do I. Socrates I am, and also here, and if
when you're away a new thought comes to you to ask a question regarding it,
write it, and we will answer automatically. We all shall linger with your band,
to aid you in the work you've planned, and hemlock tea will not be given to
thee as reward of what you do in sacrifice to men. I also know that spirits come
again, and Plato is to me disciple dear, and what he wrote to you, and what you
read to him I heard, for I was near to him, and also near to you.

I'll try to aid your wish to be a speaker eloquent, for to me it was like a
necessity. I walked upon the shore with pebbles in my mouth, to be a means of
teaching my delinquent tongue to understand it must obey my least command. Yet
when I won the hemlock tea was all that fate awarded me. Yes, I still live, and
here today I have my influence; and the words I say show thought and power. 'Twas
not to me a known fact that a soul could come and like to brother help me
through; but I had faith and hope, and love of all humanity, and I was helped to
bear the load, and aid humanity out of the rut of fixed belief in idolatry and
superstition's fear, into a way to see more clear; and later pupils taught it
so, and like to river in its flow it washed away in large degree the followers
or beliefs in the idolatry of period then; and made a way for souls of men to
grow, though what I taught I did not know.

OTELLEO (an Egyptian of the long ago and member of my spirit band). Sift out
the gold some men would do, but it is not the case with you. You sift the dross
away from what you wrote, and all is gold, that you allow to stay. Like to a
crown of gold buried for ages in the halls of time, dust gathered clings to it,
and you have made its wonders beautiful and true, and it will prove a crown to
you.

Precious indeed it is, and we have led you forward carefully to this its
nearly completed state; and when sufficient time is passed, no longer wait but
put it through, for we in thoughts are guiding you, and lighting up your veil of
care, till you can see the one is there. You have selected well and true, and
good will be .