Microsoft makes shiatty products trying to force conumers to do what it wants them to do, gets absolutely murdered in the marketplace, reluctantly makes a good product with the features comsumers want, makes money, gets drunk and overconfident on the money, and starts the cycle again.

My new laptop (no touchscreen) runs Windows 8. Mostly the new interface just gets in the way. Oddly, they also added a bunch of keyboard shortcuts to circumvent the new interface (WinKey+X is great), and sometimes those make up for it.

LasersHurt:Windows 8 is a fine OS, and it's suffering from a HUGE amount of fear-mongering and lie-spreading. People think of it as something other than what it is.

For example, Weeners - you're in NO WAY trapped in a touchscreen PC with Win8. It's just not true. I use it like a normal desktop PC, like I always have.

Alternatively, what reason would anyone have to move from Win7 to 8? Outside of it being OEM on a new PC, I can't see any argument to support going to the new OS. It looks very different; most people see it and probably think the thing is going to be limited just like whatever they have on their phone or tablet. They're familiar with the traditional layout, it means PC to them.

LasersHurt:Windows 8 is a fine OS, and it's suffering from a HUGE amount of fear-mongering and lie-spreading. People think of it as something other than what it is.

For example, Weeners - you're in NO WAY trapped in a touchscreen PC with Win8. It's just not true. I use it like a normal desktop PC, like I always have.

It is crap on top of crap. I got to where I was just installing it on a virtual I broke it so many times trying to fix its look and feel to match a regualr users expectations. They always said im just gonna return it or how much is windows 7. Many regular older apps take a dump on it. Stuff your never gonna get someone who only knows how to use it that one way is gonna put up with. As far as I'm concerned its millenium III.

Microsoft is desperately trying to gain market share down the road in mobile devices. The thinking is that "they'll get over it", and when it comes time to buy the next tablet or phone, they'll go with Windows because they're already used to the interface. The fact that they're risking pissing off an established customer base shows how desperate they are. It's a huge gamble, and it'll be interesting to see if it pays off.

In the meantime, if you have a parent who just got a Win8 computer, install ClassicShell. You're welcome.

oh_please:Metro is a solid interface for phones/tablets, but it's horribly clunky on an actual PC, Grandma will have to relearn everything.

"Everything"? Relearn "Everything"? Just hit Start and start typing. You'll find everything. That's just ONE thing to learn, and it works well. As far as adding or removing tiles, either just use the desktop like they're familiar with, or learn the one or two things necessary. It takes seconds.

I mean, there are a FEW things that are different, but it's not jarring because the core behind it all is the same.

I downloaded win 8 pro and it does take some getting used to. But the more I use it the more I actually like it. Also got the new windows phone which I really like. Took k me about a week coming from an android to get the gist of it. Basically give it some time and a little trial and error it works fine and I'm cool with it. \not a Microsoft paid shill

oh_please:LasersHurt: Holy shiat, guys, press the Windows key. There, everything's back the way it was.

It's so easy to use, and been completely stable. I don't know what has given you guys such trouble.

Except, "Where's the Start button on my desktop?"

"I'm in a program and can't get out of it!"

"How do I restart/shut down?"

"I don't know how to find a file"

"How do I get rid of all these buttons I never use? I don't want to go to HP.com or Ebay!"

...and on and on and on.

Metro is a solid interface for phones/tablets, but it's horribly clunky on an actual PC, Grandma will have to relearn everything. She may as well get an Apple.

It's not even a decent interface for phones or tablets since it lacks folders. It just keeps vomiting more icons onto your start screen.

fark I hate it. The interface is such bullshiat. Whar is control panel? I had to go hunting for it. Why don't things like printers want to install when i plug them in the computer again? is it 1995?-Why'd I have to look up how to shut down programs online? No tutorial or anything?-Why does the farking thing have two control panels, one that's useful and one for tweaking only settings related to the tile interface?-Why can't i copy a tile which was created when a program was installed and make it a desktop icon?-Why can't I use the computer for longer than a week before getting an email from Microsoft saying I've disconnected my Facebook account from Windows 8 and it can't feed me my facebook data on the live tiles? I did that on farking purpose, because I don't want anyone walking by the machine casually getting to read my facebook stuff.-Why did I have to integrate my LIVE/Zune account as my primary login to the OS?-Why is it that the "Weather" app which shows me live weather data for my city, when clicked, takes 15 seconds to farking load? IT JUST SHOWS THE farkING WEATHER.-Why does the video app go find all the videos on my computer including the ones I really don't want other people watching (hint, naked women) so that anyone randomly clicking on that gets access to my entire porn library?

Which is completely different from how the majority of people use Windows. You have never done tech support for older people, have you? They don't generalize well when it comes to software. That is, they learn a specific set of steps to get to where they want to go. If the steps change, they often need to relearn the entire procedure. With Windows 8, they now need to learn a new interface or, at the very least, need to learn how to switch between them as they will do so rather often, by accident, with no idea how they got there or how to get back. Hit start and start typing? Many older people don't know what the names of their apps are, they merely recognize the icon or where on the screen it should be. I know many middle aged people who are scared to learn keyboard shortcuts, and you expect them to remember all of their program and document names?

LasersHurt:oh_please: Metro is a solid interface for phones/tablets, but it's horribly clunky on an actual PC, Grandma will have to relearn everything.

"Everything"? Relearn "Everything"? Just hit Start and start typing. You'll find everything. That's just ONE thing to learn, and it works well. As far as adding or removing tiles, either just use the desktop like they're familiar with, or learn the one or two things necessary. It takes seconds.

I mean, there are a FEW things that are different, but it's not jarring because the core behind it all is the same.

For you, yes. I'm talking about the people who have worked with an XP unit for the last 6-10 years, it's finally died, and they go out and buy a new PC. There's a farkton of those people, and they'll have no idea where to begin. Remember when they removed the word "Start" from the Start button in Vista? Older folks went apeshiat.

There's no sense in making people jump through extra hoops in an effort to force your mobile OS down peoples throats. I've had 8 for a while, and sure, it's OK once you get used to it. But your average user will boot it up for the first time, see Mail, click on it thinking, "Ok, I'll set up my email", then is prompted to register with a Live account. "WTF? OK, don't want to do this...it won't leave? How do I get out of it? I DON'T KNOW!!!! NOTHING I'VE BEEN TAUGHT TO DO FOR ALL MY LIFE WORKS!"

Gamers, you know Games For Windows Live? This is the OS version of that.

Which is completely different from how the majority of people use Windows. You have never done tech support for older people, have you? They don't generalize well when it comes to software. That is, they learn a specific set of steps to get to where they want to go. If the steps change, they often need to relearn the entire procedure. With Windows 8, they now need to learn a new interface or, at the very least, need to learn how to switch between them as they will do so rather often, by accident, with no idea how they got there or how to get back. Hit start and start typing? Many older people don't know what the names of their apps are, they merely recognize the icon or where on the screen it should be. I know many middle aged people who are scared to learn keyboard shortcuts, and you expect them to remember all of their program and document names?

I literally support people for a living.

The complaint this keeps boiling down to is "anything is different at all, and any learning at all makes it a bad OS." I think that's lazy, because it takes literally SECONDS to learn what to do, and the OS outside of these few new things is great.

Confused, all right. Confused as to why they think people want touchscreen EVERYTHING. I can't stand touch screens. It'll never be as exact as a mouse, period. And that's before we talk about how they are trying to push tablets, and giving the option to buy a keyboard to go with it. Also known as... oh ya, A FARKING NOTEBOOK. (One with much less memory than what most people need, FWIW.)

I need a laptop. I need one with a shiatload of memory. I don't need touchscreen. I don't need to do 90% of what you see people doing in Windows commercials, at least not in the way they do it. My laptop is currently almost 2-1/2 years old. If it dies before the next generation, I'm sure as shiat having my best friend (a computer geek who feels the exact same way about 8 as I do) re-image it in a crack-addict's heartbeat.

oh_please:There's no sense in making people jump through extra hoops in an effort to force your mobile OS down peoples throats. I've had 8 for a while, and sure, it's OK once you get used to it. But your average user will boot it up for the first time, see Mail, click on it thinking, "Ok, I'll set up my email", then is prompted to register with a Live account. "WTF? OK, don't want to do this...it won't leave? How do I get out of it? I DON'T KNOW!!!! NOTHING I'VE BEEN TAUGHT TO DO FOR ALL MY LIFE WORKS!"

During Christmas I set my mother-in-law up on a nice newish laptop with Windows 7 on it, I'm hoping it'll last her seven years like her XP desktop did, which will give Microsoft some time to rejigger their latest GUI snafu into something workable. I couldn't imagine trying to walk her through how to use Metro.

You don't need to help me, I'm just giving you the questions that EVERY SINGLE PERSON has asked after using an earlier version of Windows. If everyone has to ask those questions to do simple tasks, it's wrong.

theorellior:oh_please: There's no sense in making people jump through extra hoops in an effort to force your mobile OS down peoples throats. I've had 8 for a while, and sure, it's OK once you get used to it. But your average user will boot it up for the first time, see Mail, click on it thinking, "Ok, I'll set up my email", then is prompted to register with a Live account. "WTF? OK, don't want to do this...it won't leave? How do I get out of it? I DON'T KNOW!!!! NOTHING I'VE BEEN TAUGHT TO DO FOR ALL MY LIFE WORKS!"

During Christmas I set my mother-in-law up on a nice newish laptop with Windows 7 on it, I'm hoping it'll last her seven years like her XP desktop did, which will give Microsoft some time to rejigger their latest GUI snafu into something workable. I couldn't imagine trying to walk her through how to use Metro.

It actually makes a ton more sense to those who have little to no experience with Windows already. I would agree that it makes some things harder to access, like the control panel or any of the more power user things, but it's a ton easier to do the basics.

LasersHurt:DrgnMech: Win8 assumes most people can/are willing to learn how to use new/different things on their computer. This is a very bad assumption.

"No new things" will not fly long term, and everyone knows it. I don't know why they cry so much about change.

*shrug* I doubt forcing change onto them will make Win8 a winning OS. The market determines what's a good product. I mean, I'm sure it's a great OS and all (I have no idea, I've played with it like 5 minutes), but if you're running a business and your new product has this much bad publicity this quickly, someone dun goofed.

Mouse to the right of the screen, click gear icon, click power icon. It ain't rocket surgery.

"I don't know how to find a file"

Again, what? Explorer is still there, and they didn't hide it anywhere obscure. It's a button on the goddamn taskbar by default. Or you can search from the start screen by just typing the name, which is 1000 times faster than searching through folders.

"How do I get rid of all these buttons I never use? I don't want to go to HP.com or Ebay!"

...and on and on and on.

Right mouse button, motherfarker. Do you have one?

Metro is a solid interface for phones/tablets, but it's horribly clunky on an actual PC, Grandma will have to relearn everything. She may as well get an Apple.

You haven't actually used W8, have you? Quit spreading FUD. You barely have to even use the Metro interface if you don't like it, 99% of stuff, including all advanced system tasks, are done through the desktop, and the 1% where you do interact with Metro, beats the fark out of the old start menu. Chasing nested menus around the screen drove me bugfark nuts, but if you want them that badly, there's classicshell.

And for the record, my mother, who is the poster child for computer illiteracy, bought a new windows 8 laptop and she was up and running in no time, knew exactly how to get along with it.

FTA: "Apple's a longtime pick of Motley Fool superinvestor David Gardner, and has soared 219.20% since he recommended it in January 2008"

Never mind their stock has been in a free fall for the past 3 months, shedding nearly a 1/3rd of its value. If Microsoft or Google's stock were doing the same, we'd hear from markets analysts that "the end is near!"

DrgnMech:LasersHurt: DrgnMech: Win8 assumes most people can/are willing to learn how to use new/different things on their computer. This is a very bad assumption.

"No new things" will not fly long term, and everyone knows it. I don't know why they cry so much about change.

*shrug* I doubt forcing change onto them will make Win8 a winning OS. The market determines what's a good product. I mean, I'm sure it's a great OS and all (I have no idea, I've played with it like 5 minutes), but if you're running a business and your new product has this much bad publicity this quickly, someone dun goofed.

I honestly couldn't tell you when or where the bad press started. I think Microsoft intentionally or accidentally let people focus too much on the Start menu and Metro, and they thought the familiar OS was gone and this was all that was left (rather than this being a new element, but the rest remaining, even improved in many ways). It got out of hand and couldn't be reigned in.

Mouse to the right of the screen, click gear icon, click power icon. It ain't rocket surgery.

"I don't know how to find a file"

Again, what? Explorer is still there, and they didn't hide it anywhere obscure. It's a button on the goddamn taskbar by default. Or you can search from the start screen by just typing the name, which is 1000 times faster than searching through folders.

"How do I get rid of all these buttons I never use? I don't want to go to HP.com or Ebay!"

...and on and on and on.

Right mouse button, motherfarker. Do you have one?

Metro is a solid interface for phones/tablets, but it's horribly clunky on an actual PC, Grandma will have to relearn everything. She may as well get an Apple.

You haven't actually used W8, have you? Quit spreading FUD. You barely have to even use the Metro interface if you don't like it, 99% of stuff, including all advanced system tasks, are done through the desktop, and the 1% where you do interact with Metro, beats the fark out of the old start menu. Chasing nested menus around the screen drove me bugfark nuts, but if you want them that badly, there's classicshell.

And for the record, my mother, who is the poster child for computer illiteracy, bought a new windows 8 laptop and she was up and running in no time, knew exactly how to get along with it.