What is True PvP?

Stratics Veteran

will have to apologise to anyone that assumed this wasn't a rhetorical question.
I'd like to start off by giving my personal opinions on the matter.
PvP comes in Three Types True PvP, Duel, and Realm vs Realm.. I will give an example of each

True PvP:

Player Vs. Player seems to be what everyone lumps all forms of player vs, player combat into regardless of the actual mechanics but for me I just can't, Player Vs. Player isn't what many have reduced it to. PvP is a struggle between players both in combat and out. You can only find true PvP in MMO's or servers that allow full looting of the player you kill and a no safe zone approach with the exceptions of towns. Some may disagree but as I said this is merely my opinion on the matter. PvP in this since does many things, on one level it makes the high end crafting community an integral part of the community which in turn need large amount's of materials, The material needs gives way for lower end crafters not only to make a profit while skilling up there respective crafts but also makes them a needed part of the community. This as a byproduct fuels the economy. Crafter's then compete heavily in the open market. Besides all this factions begin to form as far as good and evil. The Evil ones go around pk'ing new players and people out minding there own business while the Good guys feel the need to punish them for doing these actions. Thus forming a need for community on both ends of the spectrum and everywhere in between. True PvP attracts many Role-Players as well as hard core PvP'rs but it also attracts many casual players and PvE players as well. The casual players generally come for the crafting and a lot of the freedoms this style of game offers while the PvE players mainly come for the extra challenge involved. There is a certain amount of excitement to be had knowing that every minute you stay and fight more and more mobs filling up your bag with goodies that some random pk'r will come by and attack you. There's a chance the PvE'r may even defeat the PK'r depending on both parties skill adding a tad bit of pride. One of the greatest things about MMo's like this is that the community itself tends to add content of sorts on there own adding to a usually large list of content already in place by the developers.

RvR (Realm vs. Realm)
These style of MMO's tend to focus on the more large scale PvP battles where there isn't much of a penalty if one at all for dying. These MMO's tend to have set bad guys for the race that you pick and give rewards of a different kind upon defeating an enemy race such as a points system or special PvP items you may acquire. Maturity factor can be a bit of a problem in this system at times due to the fact that there really isn't a penalty for death and that numbers matter more than maturity or quality for Guilds/Clans. However the RvR style games seem to add a bit more focus on PvE content than True PvP focused MMO's. There's also a good amount of replay value in MMO's like this since each Realm is limited on races and classes you may pick from. RvR is also a good place for players to get some PvP action without being the leetest since you tend to have support in the majority of your battles. They do tend to be more item based rather than skill based adding to the PvE side of things by requiring you to go on raids and such to get the best PvP gear.
This is a much more relaxed PvP environment, yes there is conflict but it's generally consensual and there's no major penalty for defeat. This isn't my ideal PvP system personally but it is good for those that enjoy the epic battles without the consequences of a True PvP MMO. Communities tend to do well in games like this as well and seem to stick together more often than the next style of PvP'r.

The Duel style PvP MMO's mainly focus on PvE content and are more for the casual gamer because PvP is just something else you can do if you choose. PvP is generally consensual only, this is not always the case but they seem to only allocate a few servers that allow open PvP, In any case there is no penalty for death or such a low penalty it really isn't worth mentioning. These tend to attract mainly PvE players some may play on the PvP servers but it tends to be a very low population. If there isn't a server dedicated to Open PvP or has PvP zones they tend to have mini games that allow people to challenge others or compete in PvP to some extent. In general these tend to be grind games mainly. The content is focused on PvE aspects, There isn't alot to say about this style of PvP honestly because there isn't much to it. It can be fun but never really meaningful.

Stratics Veteran

True PvP is any moment during which you(and/or your group) engage or are engaged in combat with another player(and/or their group) with the sole intent of killing each other no matter what, how or when.

Only if you want it to be. I no longer go near yew gate because the PvP at the gate is trashy. I would rather do a champ spawn because even if it becomes 1v15 there are no houses and guard zones to hide behind in most cases and even where there are zones and houses they are far enough from where the fight initiates that it is reasonable.

Stratics Veteran

PvP to me is about fun and balance Person against person. Siege is not really a good example they have too many trammie items. its a broken system hence why only 50 people play it. I am somewhere right now that is set in pub 15 no aos items, powerscrolls (cept tailor,smith) no tram, ish, malas, tok, heartwood. PvP is most balanced here for every 2-3 pvmers/crafters there is at least one PK. They ban scripters/automated resource gatherers gold item sellers on sight the economy is not jacked up. Thieves prosper, crafters prosper, Factions prosper, it is truly what UO was intended to be. Theres a message when you log on that tells you how many people are on line i have yet to see it under a 1000 and seen up to 3k+ at peek times.

We have been asking for a few shards since the release of AOS and always we get the code is gone we cant do it. WTH i see it, play it every day its possible. EA should in fact start a UO pro system for servers if its selected they put it on their server list pay the people that work on maintain them and dont but in on design ideas.

Stratics Veteran

I think the word "true" is pointless and only incites flaming. I could easily argue that your definition isn't strong enough. Maybe we need perma-death to make player-vs-player "true" enough? *shakes head*

I also don't think pets make pvp somehow less "true." Macros, for example, can unbalance combat in the same way. I will agree that there are times when these things can unbalance combat to the point where it isn't fun, interesting, or fair. However, this doesn't make combat more or less "true."

I have played for a long long time. I got the game for Christmas the year it came out. I remember when the only viable template was tank mage in plate using a halberd when the mana ran out. I remember when archers chugging potions and having every shot a moving shot was big. I remember paralyzing short spears, and gaining spell resist during power hour. There have always been cheap tricks. There have also been players of real skill who had the respect even of their enemies. Same with trash talk, broken templates, unbalancing items, and any aspect of pvp you can name except insurance.

As a generalization, UO does NOT have PvP any more. It is ZergSquad vs 1. GankSquad vs 1. CryBaby vs Miner. Whiner vs Miner. It is a lot of things, but the ONE THING IT IS NOT is Player vs Player.

It is amusing to see the "I HATE TAMERS" cover it up with I don't want to fight AI. GUESS WHAT, WHAT IS THE AUTOMATIC CROSSBOW? What are the numerous macros, scripts, hacks, cheats, exploits that ARE PvP TODAY?

UO has become a Template vs Template. This COULD WORK if it were not for the cry babies / whiners. T vs T can be characterized, for the purposes of Balance, as the Rock vs Scissors vs Paper vs Rock game. Meaning every Template has its Nemesis.

BUT

The Cry Babies and Whiners will say "I am a Paper and I can NOT BEAT THE Scissors. Therefor it is LOGICAL that Scissors be NERF'd into being MY PERSONAL PUNCHING BAG".

UO PvP, IS NOT Player vs Player (I accept and concede there can be the exception).

YET, Player vs Player is the most enduring and entertaining aspect of MMORPG's. The variants of PvP are just pale imitations of Player vs Player.

For Magic the Gathering, this is called the meta-game where usually there are only several viable deck choices at a time (the deck that beats almost everything, the deck designed to beat the first deck but loses to everything else, everything else). They mix up competitive play by cycling in and out cards.

To define a game without any sort of choices beforehand (no equipment metagames) is basically to restrict competition to games like chess and checkers. Even these games have their own meta-games (which opening moves, defenses, etc. are chosen).

Choosing a template and equipment and how much time/gold you will spend on what is resource management which is player-determined. While there are usually better choices for a meta-game (in Magic they are called net decks, in Ultima they are gimplates, etc) that are publically known, not all players play these choices equally. In professional magic for example where mistakes are rarer, metagame choices and random chance usually determine who wins.

The metagame is determined by players. The individual metagame choice is determined by a player. The games are competitive in nature. How the heck is that not player-vs-player? We can argue that it isn't the most fun player-vs-player or something else, but I think the semantic argument is pretty clear.

Stratics is the oldest continually running MMORPG Fansite on the Internet. Founded in 1997 Stratics has served the Ultima Online Community for 18 years. We strive to provide the most complete social experience for Ultima Online players.