Is Your Girlfriend or Wife a Professional Victim?

Does your girlfriend or wife blame you for everything that’s wrong in the relationship, even her bad behaviors? Does she refuse to take responsibility for her own actions, especially the hurtful ones? Do you frequently feel forced into a role of contrition in which you have to make up for some wrong or “owe” your girlfriend or wife?

If so, you may be involved with a woman who is a professional victim. Don’t be fooled, she is no victim. Victim-hood is a powerful role. In fact, women who play the victim are often the aggressor in relationships. They play the “victim” to manipulate and control others by holding you emotionally hostage.

Professional victims are stealth bullies. Being caught in a never ending blame game with one of these women is a form of emotional abuse for the man at whom she points her finger in accusation.

The following characteristics are signs that your girlfriend or wife may be a professional victim:

1) She never acknowledges when she hurts others. She has exclusive rights to the role of “injured party.” When you call her on her behavior, she provides ample excuses for why she’s not accountable. The excuses she provides assign blame for her actions to someone else, usually the person she’s wronged. It’s always your fault or someone else’s fault, but never, ever is it her fault.

2) The victim must be victimized. If you’re not an abusive person, she’ll pull it out of you in order to play the victim script she has in her head. For example, she needles and needles and needles one of your sore spots, until you can’t take it any more and snap at her in defense.

Presto! She just got you to “victimize” her–never mind the previous 2 hours in which she psychologically tormented and bullied you into it. She needs to play innocent victim to someone’s bad guy. It’s the foundation of her identity.

This is a very primitive defense mechanism called projective identification, which, if you’re on the receiving end, is truly awful in that it makes you feel like the crazy person. It’s a self-fulfilling prophesy whereby she believes you’re a “bad guy” and she’s a “victim.” She then behaves or interacts with you in such a way that you change your behavior in response to her actions and become the “bad guy.” A telltale sign is that you feel like you’re being coerced into being someone that you’re not. It’s highly, highly emotionally abusive.

3) She blames others and circumstances for her own shortcomings or failures. The professional victim lives in “Never-Never Take Personal Responsibility Land,” which is bordered to the North by “The Land of If Only.” This allows her to blame her parents, siblings, co-workers, bosses, professors and you for her life, career and relationships not being as she thinks they should be.

She’d be running the business if only her boss recognized her talents. She’d have graduated from culinary school and been wildly successful if her prof hadn’t looked at her cross-eyed. She’d have sex with you more often if you did more of x, y, and z. Don’t fall for this malarkey, men. She’s right in that there’s someone to blame for her sad life. She need only look in the mirror to direct her blame accurately.

4) She admires and respects people who actually treat her badly. This is a fascinating aspect of the professional victim: They defend those who harm, exploit and bully them and vilify and lash out at those who want to help and care for them. She may fondly describe a relative or ex-boyfriend who sounds like a real S.O.B. and follow it up with, “but he’s such a good person.” Meanwhile, you bend over backward to tiptoe around her extreme sensitivities and she accuses you of “beating her down” and “not being supportive.” Huh?

The fact that she admires and respects bullies and people who abuse their power is a huge red flag because we emulate those we admire. Let me make this point crystal clear, SHE ADMIRES BULLIES AND ABUSERS BECAUSE SHE IS REALLY AN EMOTIONALLY ABUSIVE BULLY IN VICTIM’S CLOTHING.

It’s impossible to have a loving relationship of equals with a professional victim. She goes through life feeling slighted and angry, never taking responsibility for her actions or life. Good luck trying to talk to her about this. You’ll meet with extreme defensiveness and more blaming behaviors. Her only identity is that of victim: If she doesn’t believe she’s being victimized, then who is she? Someone who treats other people like crap and who is pissing her life away. It’s a matter of psychological self-preservation versus ego annihilation.

If you’re involved with one of these women, I encourage you to reconsider the relationship. When I come across them in life, I try to avoid them altogether or, at the very least, minimize contact. It’s really the only way to deal with them.

by Dr Tara J. Palmatier, PsyD

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Just had this conversation with my therapist. The short answer is “because there is something in it for you”. You just have to figure out your reaction to imagining these things and what it does for you.

I disagree with any and all notions that poor behaviors like Proffesional Victim mentality are due to mental illness. I believe that such labelling of poor behaviors removes personal responsibility from those who perform them.

The caption in the accompanying illustration says it all: “Therapy has taught me that it’s all your fault.”

Proffesional Victims are Class-A MANIPULATORS. Such people often attend therapy and read self-help psychology books in order to learn the lingo of psychology and use that language as a weapon against people.

What I see here is a lot of dithering around with psychological terminology, etc. FORGET THAT CRAP. Learn how the proffesional victim operates in every day life, and learn how to stay away from them!!

“I believe that such labeling of poor behaviors removes personal responsibility from those who perform them”.

This is a very sensible and valid point. It makes sense especially when followed up by your last paragraph.

As long as some of these personalities can’t be helped with the labeling by professionals then it is kind of useless for the rest of us to keep ourselves tied in those thoughts of “why”.

Another statement you made was very powerful, and another ‘aha’-moment:

“In fact, a Professional Victim WANTS you to get caught up in all of this stuff while they’re screwing you over; it keeps you from actually DOING something about it. The further you get pulled into the trees, the less you see the forest.”

I wrote that “as long as some of these personalities can’t be helped with the labeling by professionals”….

That didn’t quite come out right. Labeling serves the purpose of recognizing for professionals, and they do need tools..but, my main meaning was that if these personalities have such a grim prognosis, then it certainly ‘ain’t’ easy for anyone else to try to figure it out.

Unfortunately, I think applying the diagnostic label of BPD, NPD, etc. has enabled many individuals who exhibit these behaviors to not take responsibility for their hurtful and crazy actions. I use diagnostic terms as a mental shorthand. As soon as the term “Borderline” or “Narcissist” is used, I see a printout in my mind of typical behaviors, faulty belief systems, etc., so I know what I’m dealing with and how to deal with it.

It’s natural for a man or woman who’s been involved with one of these predators to want to understand the “why.” The search for meaning is a normal human trait. However, this can become a trap when dealing with a professional victim/martyr/bully/NPD/BPD/HPD/APD/predator because knowing the “why” won’t change their behaviors and can keep you stuck searching for more and more answers.

When all is said and done, the most important “why” and “what” questions individuals in relationships with these predators need to answer are:

Why I am I still involved with this person?

What attracted me to this person?

What am I getting out of this relationship?

Why am I staying in this relationship? [*Hint: It’s not really about protecting your kids, losing assets or the classic, “but I love her/him!“]

What do I need to do within myself to free myself from this relationship?

You can analyze BPDs/NPDs until the cows come home. You’ll always find a new level of Kra-Zee in which to delve, but ultimately, it won’t change anything. The only person you can change is yourself. Therefore, it’s better to understand what attracted you to this person, what needs are you trying to meet, what’s kept you there, what you need to do to extricate yourself and how to become attracted to healthy women/men.

Agreed on that fully, Dr. Tara. We all need systems of labelling in order to recognize things. The brain itself is a labelling and categorizing system!

George K. Simon makes a very interesting point in his book. Basically (let’s see if I get this right), he says that due to the advent of modern psychology, we’ve all fallen into the ‘Neuroses’ model of thinking, whereby we believe that any disturbing behaviors in an individual are due to a deep-set neuroses in that individual. Once we ‘un-cover’ that ‘neuroses,’ we can help that indivual. Well meaning people – often with noble goals in mind – fall into this trap with manipulative and covertly aggresive people – spending hours and hours contemplating their mental and emotional states/histories. The covert-aggresive manipulator is all too happy to provide this ‘emotional history’ in order to draw thier victim deeper into the trees so that they can’t see the forrest. In fact, as I mentioned, many covert-aggresive people attend therapy themselves in order to build an arsenal of therapy-speak. In time, covert-aggresives (which is what Proffesional victims are) will turn this therapy-speak against YOU, in order to prove that it’s YOU who’s disturbed, not them.

Notice how I used the word ‘Disturbed.’ Simon believes that covert aggresives are disturbed – as in character-disorded – and NOT neurotic. It’s hard for people to buy into this, because our society is morally relativist and doesn’t want to believe that any one behavior is better than another. Psychologizing gives us the ‘out’ we need through falsely neutralzing unnaceptable behaviors.

Over the past ten years or so, the ‘Neuroses’ model has given considerable way to the ‘Clinical’ model, where character disturbances are instead explained through ‘science.’

The long and short of it is that most people have a very hard time believing there’s such a thing as VERY BAD PEOPLE. Hence, they’ll look for ways to mitigate this reality, through intellectualizing, pschychologizing, etc.

I’ve obvsiously thought a great deal about this. In fact, it was Simon’s book that got me through my divorce when I realized that my ex-wife was a character-disturbed, covert aggresive manipulator who could NOT be reasoned with. After hours and hours of mediation, in which she of course played the Proffesional Victim, I threw down the gauntlet, told her and the clueless mediator to go screw themselves, and presented MY solution and told them ‘This is the way it’s going to be -PERIOD.’ My alternative was full-scale nuclear war in a court-room, which I said I would readily partake in and make sure that NO ONE survived – not even the mediator. He succesfully convinced my ex to accept my solution.

The Proffesional Vitcim game is only one aspect of the Covert Aggressive personality. it is one tool in an arsenal of many.

I agree with pretty much everything your wrote. In fact, it has a lot to do with why I work outside of the field. It’s become a confederacy of dunces and enablers. I’ll check out Simon’s book.

Love your mediation story. Professional victims are at heart, covert bullies. The only way to deal with a bully is to stand your ground and intimidate them right back (not physically, of course). Appeasing doesn’t work nor does playing fair—they only see it as a sign of weakness.

Cheers. Thanks for the kind words! Yeah, the mediation was hell! I wouldn’t even use the same words here that I used there. I’d get arrested.

It was amazing to see the mediator fall for her PV act as well. Her MALE therapist also fell for it. I tell ‘ya, all a girl has to do is turn on the waterworks, and those fancy degrees go flying right out the window ;-)

I understand more of that which is important to understand each day in passing, and thanks to the stories and comments from everyone.

When I found this site something began, and it started with a feeling that I was suddenly drowning in confusion…back and forth. Not wanting to admit that certain things are fruitless (hope still alive), to not understanding the what is what and where it all originated..to swaying back to WHO I used to be before all of it started once again, and this has happened several times (checking my sanity, and ‘what’ was wrong with me). I really haven’t recognized myself the past years, except for when I am with other people in social settings and can be myself!

Within several days I feel that the first 2 statements above, JUST DON’T MATTER! Enough of the thinking and wondering, etc. More importantly, something clicked this morning, and I understand my part in allowing it to keep going. Geesh! I also understood this morning (suddenly, like a light switched on) that although my gut kept screaming to detach emotionally, my conscious kept telling me that when we commit we have to keep emotionally open to partner and continue to try to develop intimacy as a couple (guilt that kept me from detaching). Well, it just ain’t going to happen! It is a hopeless endeavor in this case. So, why do I choose to keep hitting my head up against the wall?? I really do hate pain. I am so sick and tired of it, and have reached a threshold.

This morning I just seemed to allow myself to detach emotionally, knowing full and well that I am not shutting down. I released feelings of guilt (I hope this sticks). I am a loving person, and will remain so…but, the pain has got to go, because this is not loving.

WHEW! Yay, and wow! I feel somewhat stronger and quite a bit liberated inside. Thank you to everyone on this site.

This comment spoke so much to me. I am forever asking myself ‘why’ and ‘what’, that search for meaning you mentioned. I guess cause I think I can make it all better, fix it, whatever… But those questions you listed sound so right, Thank You!

I’ve asked this before on another thread on this website.
Do you feel a lot of this behavior is backed up by a philosophy?

In a way, isn’t this behavior a philosophy based on a concept perpetuated by
Ayn Rand called Egoism:

If cluster B personalities are not intentionally following a philosophy, is it possible it’s a way of thinking that is ‘taught’ by their environment and authority figures who are following a philosophy based on Egoism?

Or is the brain chemistry so messed up that no matter what is taught these behaviors ultimately emerge?

I mean I haven’t seen this kind of behavior since High School, and I thought it would end then too.

I think ultimately this is about ethics. In times when clans or hunter gatherer societies were dominate, destructive behaviors such as what you’ve encountered use to result in being ostracized from that society. We’ve lost the communal best interest and now only look out for ourselves, a philosophy in egoism.

You intellectualize way too much about this stuff, my friend. Proffesional Victims are people (usually women) who will walk all over you to get what they want. Forget ‘Class A, Class B’ and all of that crap. They’re just BAD PEOPLE.

In fact, a Proffesional Victim WANTS you to get caught up in all of this stuff while the’re screwing you over; it keeps you from actually DOING something about it. The further you get pulled into the trees, the less you see the forrest.

And yes, it IS a question of ethics. Proffesional Victims HAVE NONE. They are ruthless manipulators. They rely on people’s inability to discrinimate against GOOD and BAD behavior, and on people’s desire to psychologize instead of act.

BTW – The Ayn Rand comparison is way off. Ayn Rand does not promote egoism without ethics.

I haven’t read her stuff in quite a while, but I seem to recall that her heroes/heroines all had strong, self-assured egos based upon real accomplishments and achievements. For example, Howard Roark, Dagny Taggart, John Galt and Henry Rearden were capable, individualistic, determined characters with vision and innovation.

Rand’s villains are the raging, arrogant, entitled, “you owe me” egomaniacs covering up the fact that they were talentless hacks with nothing to contribute who fed off of the hard work and genius of others such as Dr Floyd Ferris, Wesley Mouch, James Taggart, Lillian Rearden, Ellsworth Toohey and Peter Keating. In fact, Rand’s antagonists are the self-righteous, indignant professional martyrs.

It’s true that in earlier times, people with schizophrenia, depression, or a pile of other sorts of mental problems were considered to be possessed. The question I often ask myself is, are some people really possessed, or is it what science would call a mental condition? Being a believer in the Bible, the Lord cast out demons from peoples bodies and were healed, so I definitely believe in possession. But that wasn’t always the case with sick people.

Following the diversion in topic, I always thought that the Big Bang Theory could be true. As a believer, I think that the Big Bang theory could be the “what” – what actually happened to create the universe.

As an LDS missionary, we get a lot of skeptics who try to prove us wrong in the existence of God. When they say they believe in the Big Bang Theory, I point out that any reaction (be it chemical or otherwise) has to react to something – it has to have a catalyst. Nothing just happens by itself. Why can’t the Big Bang be the result, and God the catalyst?

I guess, concerning demon possession, that it is never something we can prove here.

There is a “personality”, though, a very intelligent one that works instinctively, quickly, and in exactly the same manner in all the world–and it always torments men in the same way. Plus, the personality is “dormant” in many of their social interactions, and yet we are the ones who get the brunt of it.

By day we have engineers, scientist, teachers, actresses, (and of course the lazy ones who don’t do anything), and yet by night we have some of the most destructive personalities–covert destructive personalities–that one could imagine.

Perhaps its just a sickness?

As to Big Bang Theory, to my knowledge it is not universally accepted–even if the pope had invented it. The point I was trying to make are that there are some things more difficult to believe than other things.

A quote from my borderline after I reminded her that she just left me a message telling me how much she valued me (she then the next moment told me a TON of awful things,

“Your biggest mistake was underestimating a mind like mine. I only told you what you wanted to hear. Never lied…Never had to–”

Out of her own mouth, she dubbed herself a Dr. Jekyll and Ms. Hyde. And if you study the language, she indicated she was a liar, and then lied again by saying she never lied– all in the same sentence in her phone text message.

I bring this up because your bpd also told you herself in her own way that she was double-minded (by saying she was a different person when she got angry).

I could wish it were only a sickness, because the thought of sleeping next to someone so destructive and so evil towards me is unsettling. I remember when Ted Bundy was caught, how even congressmen couldn’t believe it was true that he was a serial killer. Ted had a dark side that not too many people knew about, and some of the women who had dated him were appalled that they had been involved with such a monster the whole time, and yet they couldn’t do anything about it because it was too late.

I bring up Ted Bundy, because although these women may not frequently kill people physically, they do kill emotionally in their own way: They kill dreams, futures, plans, normal loving families, finances, self esteem, confidence, peace of mind, sanity, and a ton of other things. And all things that they kill have a domino effect that kills other things.

Even when you laugh and have the good times with them, these deceitful moments are only working against you in the future as they are likely to extend our unwillingness to leave them or identify exactly what is going on. The good times throw smoke in our eyes.

If they were “sick” or “demon possessed”, the damage they cause is the same.

Furthermore, it may be controversial and “politically incorrect” to use the terminology, “demon possessed”. So, we could just refer to them exactly as they have been referred to on this site, and call them, “monsters”.

One thing I think we all can agree with, and this goes right back on topic with this thread: “These women sure and the hell aren’t princesses”.

“Out of her own mouth, she dubbed herself a Dr. Jekyll and Ms. Hyde. And if you study the language, she indicated she was a liar, and then lied again by saying she never lied– all in the same sentence in her phone text message.”

Omg you have just descibed it exactly. Jekyll and hyde and lies about lies. Exactly what happened to me. Lies about lies and covers up any past serious issues like saying she would have me ejected by police after false allegations. “I never said that….”. Sorry honey its all on video tape. Video does not lie. Same with elicit rendezvous for sex. I presume these people make themselves believe their own lies. I think they do it by a slight variation which includes s partial truth. Ie I had to take the car to the garage, which is true but the bit about sex on the back seat is lost and hidden. Therefore a half truth. Add to this a lie about the lie and they truly can cover up the lie and thus the person gets away with it.

I agree with you Totally !! I called my ex N the Devil Himself ! I think these people are possesed by Demons because of all the lies, guilt they feel and cheating they do . Its easier for an Evil spirit to enter them and stay there when they invite them with in the door with all the wrong they do to others !I have done lots of researce on Demon possesion and my thoughts are that these people could be fixed and normal but you have to stand up to temptation to do it ! And that is way to much work for them when it is so easy to manipulate people and lives instead!

The problem with dating someone with BPD is that you want with all of your heart for it to be true. When she tells you that no one understands her except you, that she doesn’t love anyone else like she loves you, and that she will do anything she can to make up all the wrongs she’s done just to stay with you, you really want to believe her.

My ex told me that when she got angry, that it wasn’t her, but that something took her over and that I should just ignore everything she said because she said it was like a “demon” takes hold of her and she doesn’t remember what happens.

Being a believer, I do believe in the other world. I didn’t necessarily believe that it was a demon, but I did believe her when she said it wasn’t her. That’s how she trapped me.

I had to realize that this was as much a part of her as the loving side. I had to stop fooling myself into believing that living with Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde wouldn’t be so bad.

At least you had someone who didn’t exclusively blame. Mine used to explain it by saying I brought out the “Bad Mildred” (not real name) I could almost buy it except for the fact that, without exception, ALL those in her inner circle brought out “Bad Mildred”- as well.

She said it was a demon, and to think I referred to mine, during our break up, as “Lucifer”…the angel of light that looked so beautiful on the outside, and yet on the insider was an entirely different story. Mine was so shocked when i called her Lucifer, but it just accurately slipped out of my mouth.

Perhaps there is more to it than one may think. It has been said that these women have “radar”, and I wonder what “force” gives them the power to have radar. I wonder how women across the entire planet could act exactly the same way…say the same type of things…EVEN THOUGH THEY NEVER MET.

They also say that these women don’t do these things consciouly, so I really wonder what intelligent force is behind their automatic actions? I suppose the social sciences can define it however they wish–attempting to logically explain these things. Yet, sometimes science is far more difficult to believe and trust than “faith doctrines.

If you are a believer, then consider the big bang theory: “We all just magically appeared as a result of a big bang”. Or, try the tad pole theory: “We all come from a tad pole”. YEA–

One may argue that it takes far more faith to believe those things than it does to believe in a creator. And as one fully considers the patterns and nature of the bpd, the idea or the concept of a demon may not be as far fetched as believing some of the alternative explanations.

Big Bang Theory was created by Monsignor Georges Henri Joseph Édouard Lemaître, a Belgian Roman Catholic priest, honorary prelate, professor of physics and astronomer at the Catholic University of Leuven.

A ‘priest’ made the Big Bang theory.

Just thought I’d throw that in to mess you up and promote convulsions of synaptic discourse.

In the beginning, you will feel a rapidly accelerating sense of compassion because she is a master at portraying herself as she “victim of love” and you are saving her. But listen closely to how she sees herself as a victim. As her peculiar emotional invasion advances upon you, you will hear how no one understands her – except you. Other people have been “insensitive.” She has been betrayed, just when she starts trusting people. But there is something “special” about you, because “you really seem to know her.”

It is this intense way she has of bearing down on you emotionally that can feel very seductive. You will feel elevated, adored, idealized – almost worshiped, maybe even to the level of being uncomfortable. And you will feel that way quickly. It may seem like a great deal has happened between the two of you in a short period of time, because conversation is intense, her attention, and her eyes are so deeply focused on you.

Here is a woman who may look like a dream come true. She not only seems to make you the center of her attention, but she even craves listening to your opinions, thoughts and ideas. It will seem like you have really found your heart’s desire.

Like many things that seems too good to be true, this is. This is borderline personality disorder.

Thanks for the link NoseRider! That was eye opening for me to say the least about my ex BP1 I remember her saying (as we were having sex!)”don’t you feel lucky to have this” and “You better take care of that p**sy boy or someone else will…’ I needed to run for the hills then.

These individuals real others in by making them feel special and then treat them like garbage. It’s incredibly insidious. Bottom line: If things seem to be moving too fast and too intensely, you may be dealing with one of these emotional predators. The higher the pedestal they put you on in the beginning, the further your fall to earth will be. Ouch

I have a hard time ascribing BPD or some some sort of mental illness to people who are proffessional victims. In my opinion, proffessional victims are people of poor character – end of story. I take a conservative behavioralist view of these things. Always have, always will.

It’s a lot easier to make a decision about evil than it is psychologize. Just learn the chareacteristics of proffessional victims, and do your utmost to stay away from them.

I was in a relationship with someone for a few months, and it was great at first. Then, slowly, everything started to become my or someone else’s fault, and that was why she got angry and emotionally abusive with me. She would lash out and get angry at me over the smallest things, and most of the time she was angry at me for something someone else allegedly did to her.

I thought something was wrong with me; that it was my fault that the relationship started to get rocky and take a nose dive.

I grew up in a religious environment (I’m a Latter-Day Saint) however my family isn’t very religious. I spent many hours meditating and praying to know what it is I am doing wrong and why I seem to hurt her.

Then, one day, I was reading about borderline personality disorder in an assigned book for English Class. I had a lump in my throat, but at the same time, I felt like my eyes were opening. I was (and still am) 99 percent sure that this is the condition she has. (I don’t say 100 percent because, well, I am not a physician). She has all the symptoms and characteristics of this disorder, which is what makes me believe that this is her condition.

I know that BPD is a medical condition just like any other, and I don’t hold anything against her. I prayed a lot, and the only solution that I could come up with was that we had to end the relationship. I couldn’t live forever with someone who constantly abused me emotionally. And I couldn’t make my children live through that as well.

The hardest thing was trying to tell her that it was over. Everytime she would yell and get angry at me (for whatever reason, if there was one) I would try to be patient and not get angry, and if I started to get frustrated I had to leave the room. When I would tell her that we couldn’t be together anymore, she would cry in my arms and tell me she was deeply regretful and sorry and that she wants to change. She would tell me that I was the love of her life, and that she only loves me and could only love me.

If you find a girl like this, listen to your head, not your heart. Sometimes, they’re one and the same. But don’t let her convince you to stay in the relationship if you know you don’t want to be.

I think you made the right choice by ending the relationship. Your advice to listen to head and not the heart when dealing with an individual like your ex is spot on. You can’t love another person enough to make them whole. You can’t love another person enough to make them stop abusing you.

It doesn’t matter whether you ex had a formal diagnosis or not. BPD and NPD are often misdiagnosed by professionals. Alternatively, she may never receive a formal diagnosis because she doesn’t believe anything is wrong with her and therefore won’t seek help.

You don’t have to be a credentialed therapist to recognize abusive, hurtful and unhealthy behaviors. The label, whether it’s BPD, NPD, bully, professional victim, emotional predator, is irrelevant. A label or diagnosis is just an abbreviated way to understand what you’re dealing with.

If what you read here, on other sites and books resonates with you and your experience with your ex and helps you that’s all that really matters.

Wow, everything you wrote i have in my relationship. I put up with all the bullcrap because she saying “losing the love of her life is unbearable” melted my heart. Love of her life? Who the fuck treats his/her significant other like crap and call it love of his/her life?? I don’t understand why she acts this way if she is scared of losing me? I disconnected my brain’s emotional part and voila! I won’t continue this toxic relationship because of empty flattering. Actions speak louder than words. If I feel like crap it is crap, no other way around. Thank you so much for sharing your story and insight!

WOW. This describes my ex-wife PERFECTLY. She was a true manipulator and proffessional victim. Her continual M.O. was to initiate a drama whereby she was the victim, so that she could gain something from the fallout.

Proffessional victims are RUTHLESS MANIPULATORS, and one thing I’ve noticed about them is that when their methods don’t work, they escalate the game and up the ante. That’s when they can become dangerous, using legal chicanery ir even violence to achieve their ends.

One of the things proffesional victims are great at (my ex was a real pro) is ‘Gaslighting.’ (As per the old 50’s movie.) They convince you that YOU’RE the sick one who needs help. As their M.O., proffesional victims often use the lingo of psychology from their own years of therapy, where they’ve had lots of help in discovering everything is everyone else’s fault. This is VERY important: Proffesional Victims often use the lingo of therapy as a weapon.

I think a lot of men fall for proffessional victims because of their chivalry instinct. We find a woman with ‘problems,’ then set out to solve her ‘problems.’ Soon enough, WE become the problem, and the PV plays her angle. PV’s are CON-ARTISTS, and they will strip you clean and move on to the next victim. That’s what they do.

“In Sheep’s Clothing: Understanding and Dealing with Manipulative People,” by George K. Simon Jr, is a GREAT book on this subject. In fact, it opened my eyes and got me through my divorce with my skin intact.

Proffesional Victims often use the lingo of therapy as a weapon. This is very, very true.

They learn just enough psycho-jargon to twist things around and manipulate others—this frequently includes their unwitting therapist. Alternatively, some professional victims use religion and quote the bible to control, abuse and manipulation. It’s just another variation of the same phenomenon.

Absolutely, my ex-wife is ADD, BiPolar, OCD, ODD, BPD (biological reasons here). The mother-in-law was institutionalized for months when my ex-wife was a child. Both very well versed in jargon. Beyond these two, look at the feminist based abuse rhetoric which is unfortunately accepted in law enforcement & courts. Reality gets twisted over & over to spare any accountability for a woman.

My education is in Computer Engineering. The closed-logic fallacy (damned if you do, damned if you don’t) of all this has proven mind blowing. Even when you do a point by point analysis with diagrams & reference to violations of their very definitions, these people will still attack. They hate being shown chicken & egg system dynamics. They abhor you when they are over-ridden by hard science (cross-correlate genetics & behavior studies).

It has taken a few years to figure out WTF just happened (to 26 years of my life). Figuring it out has been a valid activity & I thank Dr. T. & this site for support. As Dr. T. points out, your best bet is no contact. It is easy when you come to a full understanding of these women. Now I just have to stop flinching when a woman says hello to me (LOL).

Sorry for my delayed reply. The answer to your question is YES. BPD’s are often like psychotic boomerangs. The more vigorously you throw them away from you, the harder they fly back at you.

Many, but not all, Borderlines (women and men) like to keep their exes in the cupboard for a rainy day. For example, they come back when they:

– want an ego boost after being rejected by a new target
– aren’t getting enough attention from their new target to satisfy them
– want to use you to make their new target jealous
– want or need something material from you like money, a place to stay, a car, a bill(s) paid, etc.
– want to make themselves feel desirable by reconfirming their ability to lure you back in
– are feeling bad and want to introject their inner pain, turmoil and chaos onto you

If your BPD comes sniffing back around my advice is don’t answer the door, the phone, the email or the text. Responding just to be nice lets them start their abuse all over again.

Good grief…while I see things i relate to in other posts, this one nails it, especially the part about badgering you into being what she thinks you are….

Its like this, even in the mundane, wife asks something (not permission type things, Im not her boss), and I disagree, she asks again, slightly changing the question to add “data” supporting her view…still I disagree, this iterates over and again until I get an edge in the old voice….her comment “Im JUST askin”…then it escalates as she says, “I cant even talk to you”….finally if I raise my voice, after the meandering twists and turns through anything and everything including the old molded mac and cheese in the sink 5 years ago, and I am supremely lost and frustrated, I yell (gasp) and guess what….yep….the yelling BECOMES the issue…the rest doesnt even matter anymore.

She can accomplish this in groups in “code”, many men wil agree their spouse can send messages of deep offense and challenge, and no one but you have a clue, so we are forced into being as they say “impeached on the stand” where a yes or a no both make us look equally neanderthal, and they elicit the sympathetic look from the others as the “jerk”, while not yelling, looks tense for no reason.

Its not about winning…but these are no win situations, and as you aptly put it, they are that way by design…its brilliant if it werent so insidious.

What you describe is maddening. These individuals are masters of the classic “no win” situation. The only way to “win” is by not playing.

Women and men with these personalities (or personality disorders) like to play psychological “tug of war.” You can each keep pulling in opposite directions with the knowledge that no matter how sane or right you are that she will twist things or you can simply “drop the rope” and let her metaphorically fall on her butt. This is kind of what jham123 describes in his above comment. He reports he’s stopped asking his wife “why” because he now knows “why,” which leaves her without a toehold to create new conflict that further portrays him as “the bad guy.”

I have found (im my personal nightmare) theirs both a front end game and a backend game, non reaction is the back end game, it evokes an even stronger response… non reaction i mean things like deferring conversation exiting calmly, or maintaining positive or happy attitude, or compromising in a way that quells the situation. I understand the thinking, don’t feed the bear, she will stop returning for food, but in my personal experience I have found its just hard coded, her brain is on level 5 big brother mode 24/7(tv show), especially in times shes stressed or unhappy, always 2 steps ahead, ie/ dishes wont be done unless she tells me to do them, in code of course(don’t want to walk on eggshells), world doesn’t turn, life doesn’t exist unless she orchestrates it, nothing exists until she walks into a room, In that she constantly creates chaos around her, crazy making. Life rattles the cage, bear will bite the closest person to them.

Wow! I have struggled to put to words what has been happening for the last 23 years and this article has hit it on the head. Chris, you have taken it to the next level!
“after the meandering twists and turns through anything and everything including the old molded mac and cheese in the sink 5 years ago, and I am supremely lost and frustrated, I yell (gasp) and guess what….yep….the yelling BECOMES the issue…the rest doesnt even matter anymore.”

Thank you, Thank you, Thank you! This is my first post and as recently as this past Monday I never knew just what I was up against. You have given me peace of mind just when I thought I was on the brink of losing it!

You’re welcome, Dave. Hang in there and please use this site to connect with other individuals who have been or are currently in your shoes. They have a lot of important information and advice to offer.

And remember, the last two times she has admitted (in dire situations where I was walking out the door) Her words were…

“I’m afraid you’ll take your love away from me”

And

“I want to love you”

But never….” I love you”

From NS

You can never successfully deal with a narcissist if you believe he loves you in any real way. He NEEDS you. But need is not love. His need is the need that will take and take and take with no concern as to whether his taking is killing you.

jham123: I used to think that my partner loved me but didn’t know how to express it. That he ‘loved’ me but was afraid of getting hurt. That he ‘loved’ me because he said so. That relationship was pure hell, where EVERYTHING was my fault, even traffic jams. Slowly I realised he was a narcissist and began extracting myself from the ‘relationship.’

“You can never successfully deal with a narcissist if you believe he loves you in any real way”

That has helped me to get out and stay out of any dealings with him. Whenever I think that “he loves me’ I immediately tell myself that people do not abuse people that they love. It’s a long road, but the finish line is in sight.
*Woman Freed from Abuse*

1) She NEVER accepts culpability for ANYTHING. This has been the source of many many long discussions between us. I point out glaring facts and she dismisses them…even go so far as to try to make believe she was not even in the room when [insert infraction of choice here] occurred. I have to lay it chronologically and verbatim in concise English before she caves……It is the most exhausting thing I’ve ever been through….and yes, when she walks into the room the recording device is activated

2) She was a absolute A$$ for a week prior to our major blow-out. The day of the blow out….She was just off the Richter scale with abusive banter……and to my detriment I had finally had enough, I finally yelled at her…..”IF you are so unhappy here, then why don’t you leave?”

She called 9/11 and claimed I was abusing her….Fortunately the police with a level head explained to her that arguing was not a crime…and the she could not use them to force me out of my house.

3) She has been blaming me since we got married for everything that is not right in her life…..where we live, why she is not a Movie Star, What kind of car she drives, Why we do not have enough money (She get’s and spends the entire income…..That stopped last month)

She can never have intimacy with me because of things listed above……If only we had [insert possession of choice here] then she could then feel secure and trusting towards me and we could then be intimate…..(thank god for this Blog shedding the light).

4) one of her best friends is an older Woman down the street that has absolutely $h!+ on her multiple times. This woman is a real piece of work and has openly told my wife that She(the woman) didn’t like me the very first time she met me..and despite that little admission my wife continues to cultivate a friendship with that lady….More on that later.

4.5) Number 4 actually address two things….Professional Victim. Yes…absolutely so. I describe it as “Slander”. She runs around and Slanders me to anyone that will lend an ear. This is what she’s done with this older woman down the street AND a ~38ish year old never been married…living with her Dad….girl a few doors down, Elders at the church, Her family, My family……Should I go on?

I have to address this ~38 year old….one day we have having a discussion and this Girl drops in (we were in the garage) This Girl see’s the tone and immediately siezes on the opportunity to jump me (verbal assault..get your mind out of the gutter). My wife stands idly by and allows the attack to continue. I didn’t need saving as I exposed her ridiculous stance and dismissed her…….but again, my wife cultivates a Friendship with this Zagnut as well. All the healthy women in the neighborhood aren’t really in my Wife’s Circle of inner friends.

Not to mention, there is no way in hell I would allow even my best friend or BROTHER to attack any member of my family for one instant. My Wife seemed to glean pleasure and strength from that woman………(one that has never been married, has no kids, No Boyfriends, no other Friends that I can tell…..)

The 38yo has told her openly that she doesn’t feel that I should be “in the house” any longer…(wtf? I’ve been the rock of the family for nearly 20 years…my wife has no job and no money to support herself…yet somehow the 38yo feels that My fam would be better off without me)

The older lady down the street, during the blow-out, I was on the phone with my Wife and we were trying to work things out. Through the phone I hear the older lady walks in the front door….after a brief pause (I’m sure my wife was telling her who was on the other end of the line) I hear clear as a bell the older woman Coaching my wife to say things. She told my wife…..”Tell him to call Mark” (one of the Church elders that does “Counseling”) ( I have my doubts about his abilities to Counsel anyone…he has not impressed me) Then this woman continues with “Hang up the phone……Hang up on him”…….WTF!!!?!??!!?!?

So, here I am talking to my Wife on MY PHONE who is sitting in MY HOME and this woman has the audacity to come in and tell MY WIFE to hang up on me??

And somehow I am being told that it shouldn’t be my decision on if this or the 38yo woman remains as part of my Wife’s friends.

I’m sorry, my Wife has played the victim to these people and they in turn have become Toxic to our Marriage……and I want the Toxin removed……it is as simple as that.

I have made it clear to my wife that if in fact she would like to continue our Marriage, these toxins are not going to be tolerated any further.

And as “Freedom” pointed out earlier, She cannot rectify the situation if the roles were reversed. She cannot answer “How would you solve this issue” When I change the roles and it is me that has Toxic/disrespectful/hateful/detrimental friends advising me to leave her……funny aint it?

If it weren’t so sad and potentially devastating to four innocent wonderful children I might chuckle…but the funny part is how Dr T point out that this is not Rocket Science…these types of women are all the same…and as we all share our experiences regarding the “discussions” the Women all seem to use the EXACT SAME verbiage and tactics……

Since I’ve found this Blog…….we seem not to be arguing…..She knows I am reading it….She knows what I am thinking and……..Two things

1) She is hell bent on not allowing me to see the behavior

2) I am not reacting…..just observing her which is totally throwing her off.

The reason I am not reacting is……I NO LONGER HAVE QUESTIONS that she will continue to refuse to answer……..I UNDERSTAND on my own!!!

A lot of our Friction comes from me wanting to understand ( I am a Physicist…I must know things…it’s in my nature) and me looking to her for answers for certain behaviors…..then she dodges and weaves and spins….in which case I circle and pose more question looking for the AHA moment….

From Her the Aha never never comes…….and Dr. T explains that this would kill the Ego. (not verbatim) This blog is the AHA !!!!! moment.

I get it now….

Sadly, I must do something and make a choice.

Stay….or go

If I stay…I can no longer be resentful and I must deal with the beast…..

If I go…..I’ll be happier (as this has been hell)…but my kids may suffer.

2) I am not reacting…..just observing her which is totally throwing her off.

The reason I am not reacting is……I NO LONGER HAVE QUESTIONS that she will continue to refuse to answer……..I UNDERSTAND on my own!!!

A lot of our Friction comes from me wanting to understand ( I am a Physicist…I must know things…it’s in my nature) and me looking to her for answers for certain behaviors…..then she dodges and weaves and spins….in which case I circle and pose more question looking for the AHA moment….

From Her the Aha never never comes…….and Dr. T explains that this would kill the Ego. (not verbatim) This blog is the AHA !!!!! moment.

I just wanted to comment that it is amazing isn’t it? How a little sanity is restored just by what you wrote. I so get this.

Oh boy do i have a story relating to #4 in your blog on this subject. about 4 months in with my ex we had a big blow up concerning her ex, who for those 4 months would periodically send her texts ranging from “let’s get together and f–k” to physical threats towards her, me, etc. And like a total schlep, i told her intially that i didn’t like her receiving those texts/emails, but didn’t blame her for them, and offered to put a stop to it myself, which of course she flatly rebuffed. after all… she told me she did nothing to deserve him sending these much unwarranted solicitations/threats, but didn’t want to see him harmed in any way (WTF?). but as time wore on, i got really annoyed as to why this was continuing, and i told her so as each happened. so finally one day – after her supposedly receiving another solicitation for sex – i told her it’s gotta stop or i’m leaving. and we had it out for 3 days straight over this topic. she blamed me of not trusting her, yada, yada. i repeatedly stood my ground and explained it had nothing to do with my trust of her, that my trust of her was implicit, jealousy has nothing to do with it, but it was a matter of good taste, common courtesy toward me, and respect for the relationship she and i had. i emphasized that no good man with a spine, who gave a damn about the relationship with the woman he loved, would EVER be ok with something like this, or would shrug his shoulders and put up with it for 4 months straight. and the most telling reaction i got from her was no response to the question(s) of, “if the situation were reversed and it was my ex saying these things to me, how would you react? and would you put up with it for 4 months like it’s no big deal?” for 3 days straight she refused to answer those very important questions.

of course she had a list of reasons why she “couldn’t” change her number. but she finally gave in and (supposedly) blocked his emails and phone number so he (supposedly) couldn’t contact her. she told me it took over an hour on the phone with her provider to get this done. i found out later just how easily this can be done. it doesn’t take the phone provider, and it doesn’t take an hour.

and now… looking back after being away from her… i can’t possibly tell you with any certainty if the guy ever actually did ANY of it, or if she made it all up, or if it was real and continued without my knowledge, or if she actually followed thru and got rid of him for good. i found out the hard way how much she fabricated and/or distorted anything and everything she could think of to use as the victim and grab attention. there is every possibility that none of it was true, and the possibility that it was her that was bugging him. then again – to go with this post – it also may have been a birds of a feather thing with him. it’s amazing what filters thru your head when you get the chance to step back and see the whole thing, even when you take it piece by piece.

1. When a woman like your ex tells you about other men are pursuing her, it’s oftentimes confabulation, exaggeration or an out an out lie. She does this to make herself feel desirable and to appear to others like an irresistible siren. I had an acquaintance in college who used to go on and on about guys who were “so in love with her.” By chance, I met one of these men at a lecture. He introduced himself to me and I said, “I feel like I know you already, Frank. Dorothy’s told me a lot about you.” Then, I had to explain to this guy who Dorothy was. Turns out, she sat near him in an accounting class and he let her borrow a pen once.

2. “My ex won’t leave me alone/my co-worker won’t stop flirting with me” is a control tactic used to destabilize you, make you feel insecure and psychologically invest in fighting to keep her from being “snatched” away by other alleged would-be suitors. She’s trying to control you with the threat of loss of the relationship. The message is: “If you don’t do as I say, put up with my crap and treat me like a Queen, Scott is waiting in the wings to take me away, so don’t you forget it.” If you’re not afraid to lose her, this (usually) empty ploy falls flat.

3. It could be a matter of projection, Freedom. Perhaps she was harassing and cyberstalking this guy just like she’s currently doing to you. Remember, most of what comes out of this kind of woman’s mouth is projection.

4. These women also like to keep their exes and new prospects in the cupboard for a rainy day. Because this kind of woman has no core sense of self, she needs constant attention and validation for her distortions. If she goes too long without it, she gets panicky and these women can’t tolerate anxiety. If a man isn’t available, these women will use their children in this capacity, which is pretty sick.

5. I think men do become obsessive over this kind of woman. In that, men obsess over, “WTF just happened” and “How can I please her to avoid another attack?” I wouldn’t describe it as “obsessive love,” however. I think a lot of men have convinced themselves that they’re in love—otherwise, their brains wouldn’t be able to rationalize putting up with so much abuse, but is it really love? I don’t think so.

Thanks again for commenting and sharing your experiences, Freedom. I appreciate it.

First, congratulations on being aware enough to realize that you’ve adopted the professional victim role. That’s a significant first step.

The next step, is to stop engaging and reacting like a victim. This will take a lot of effort and even more self awareness. Hold yourself accountable; don’t resort to the default position of blaming others for your unhappiness or when things don’t turn out as you like. Let go of the false sense of entitlement and the feeling that others “owe” you.

Be honest with your loved ones about your realization and ask them to hold you accountable when you behave like a victim. Say something like, “Hey, I realize that in the past I’ve blamed you and made you feel bad about things that weren’t your fault. This isn’t easy for me, but I don’t want to do that anymore. I want to change and I’d like your help. However, given how I’ve treated you in the past, you’re under no obligation to do so. When I act like (fill in the blank) can you respectfully point it out, so I can stop.”

The thing is you have to mean it and don’t lash out at them when they do this. This is easier said than done of course. You may also want to check out this PDF link, from professional coach, Robert Silverstone, “From Victim to Victor.

I’m gay but have been a victim of professional victim named ********. LOL One girl who would play up her handicap and abused famale status kept lying about guys she hated. At first I believed her but found that it was mostly revenge. She would claim to be in agonizing pain and was given special treatment in our dorm and yet she could be seen dancing the night away ever Thursday and Sat night. Once I got on her bad side (which wasn’t hard to do) she kept making up vicious lies about me and turning the whole dorm against me. Of corse she’s a famale who is not only a past victim of abuse but she is also handicapped (supposedly). Who’s not going to believe her?

She managed to turn a lot of people against me and got her way. She would cry herself out of traffic violactions each time she crashed her car on campus or sit in the Dorm Office and cry about guys she hated but would clam up when ever any of them came by the office (uknown to them that she is trashing their reputations). I’m sure by now she’s got some innocent guy beat up or killed simply by pointing and crying fake tears. Heck she even joined the Vagina Monologues to hide behind. Women like ********* make it hard for women wo are really abused to be taken seriously. She’s ruining it for real victims with her lying.

Hell, I’m gay, always have been, but still as a man I can’t get away from these professional victims. I’ve dated men that are in the closet who after years of mental abuse and being blamed by their wives have turned gay. After years of men bing told how to act, think, feel, act, dress, talk, work and being castrated they come to a gay man like me… but of course by the time I get this big burly blue collar Joe he’s nothing more than a castrated whimp. She’s chewed him up and spit him out (usually with the help of the Human Service Dept. Counselors, and people who think they are helping but arn’t. So many closeted divorced or married men I’ve seen but by the time I see them they are no longer men.

Thanks for reading and commenting. By your description, it seems like you’ve encountered a real piece of work. I deleted her name from your comment as I’d rather my readers not use people’s actual names.

Smear campaigns are typical of the professional victim/bully. The mask of the victim hides the true inner predatory aggressor. People with these issues can be particularly vicious. It’s best to give them a wide berth. Some of them eventually burn their bridges when people in their circles start to compare notes and then they move on to another group of people to twist up. That’s why they fight so hard to have sole control over the truth and other people’s perceptions.

As for abusive women turning men gay, I don’t know if that’s possible. Most research indicates that you’re gay or you’re not. Perhaps the men you mention had been in denial about their sexuality before?

I don’t know the statistics on this matter, so can’t write intelligently on it. I agree, however, the women who engage in false accusations against their boyfriends, husbands, exes, etc., usually get off lightly. It’s not right. Even if the man is able to disprove the reputation destroying allegations, he still carries it with him.

What I don’t understand is why there isn’t the same amount of public shame and stigma for the women who are emotionally abusive and pathological liars. When a man does the same thing in a courtroom there’s generally a public outcry. Bad behavior is bad behavior, no matter which sex is perpetrating it.

My hunch is that male judges become distinctly uncomfortable when some of these women turn on the tears in a courtroom or wail, “but who will take care of my children?” If you’re dealing with a person who has a personality disorder like NPD or BPD, the tears usually aren’t tears of remorse. The tears are because they’re upset that they’re being held accountable. The man who is holding her accountable feels bad and then tries to comfort her or dismisses her behavior. This happens outside the courtroom as well.

Some female judges probably feel some kind of gender solidarity. Or excuse the behavior because she (the woman, not the judge) was abused as a child or has mental health issues. You could say the same thing for nearly all men who batter and abuse women, however, most of them don’t get a pass like a lot of their female counterparts do.

i fully agree, and all the system does is ramp up their disorder by giving them the tools to put you in jail. Its amazing how the courts will just believe someone when they tell their bs story. The question little and file big charges on the wrong people. Women like this should have zero credability when it comes to making any kind of claim or report. Meanwhile you sit in jail waiting to prove your case. Its all a bunch of BS.

Thanks for reading! Yeah, love the photo, too. Women with mental health issues who blame men are just GREAT! I subscribed to Steadfast Finances and just in the nick of time–student loans and tax season. One’s a constant and the other’s seasonal torture.