Greetings everyone, I'm looking for a pack for long day hikes and overnighter. Right now the Burn and the Murmur are top of the list. The Murmur appears lighter, while the burn sturdier. Otherwise they seem very similar. Could anyone with experience please chime in?

You really can't go wrong either way. When you get to this level, a lot of the difference boils down to personal preference. For the record, I absolutely love my Murmur. It is more durable than most UL packs, and it carries very comfortably. I also think the pocket layout is perfecto. I've had dozens of backpacks, and this one tops my list.

I think you're right that the Murmur is slightly lighter and Burn is a little sturdier. That seems like main basis to make a decision. They do also have different top closure systems (which I assume are personal preference), there's a difference in cost, and if GG has Murmurs in stock then there's also big difference in how long it takes to get the pack after you order it.

I have a 2012 Murmur I got last spring and it suffers from the slight (but sometimes annoying) shoulder-strap and hip-strap slippage that seemed present in Murmur and other GG packs sold in (I think) first half of last year. I believe that was resolved by them changing to slightly heftier straps. . .

I think the better comparison would be between the Burn and the Kumo. You'll have the added durability of GGs ultralight Dyneema all around the pack instead of just the bottom and top flap like the Murmur, and save $15 over the Burn.

That said, I've had both the older generation and 2012 Murmurs, and I absolutely love them. The straps are fantastically comfortable, and the general design is very well thought out. I think those qualities would transfer directly to the Kumo. I can't speak for the Burn, though the few products I have from MLD have been very well made.

You didn't mention esthetics. I think the GG wins hands down there....but the beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

Tried on a Kumo last August and thought, "Damn, this is one nice pack!" then thought it, or the Murmur, would be, without a doubt, the pack I'd get if I had to buy one off the shelf. Light, exc craftsmanship, design, comfort, and esthetics.

I've had an MLD Burn (and Exodus and Newt) for a few years now and the Burn is still my goto pack for short trips. I've even used it on week long trips thanks to MLD's willingness to do custom modifications (added a wider waist belt and a few side compression straps to hold gear). The quality of the MLD gear is top notch and the ability to customize is a huge factor IMO.

I used a MLD Burn for around 1,700 miles on my AT thru hike (switched from the Exodus) and even over loaded at 30 lbs it never failed !! Suffering amidst abuse and constant long hours of use every day for months, I never had an issue with the pack. I also tried the 2012 GG Murmur and think is seems to be a visually appealing and extremely comfortable pack for UL or dayhike use. I don't think you have a bad option - but my gold standard is still MLD for durability and stitch strength.

I have both a Burn and an Exodus. I usually use the Burn only for dayhikes or a fair-ish weather overnighter -- exactly what you are looking for. I can get an overnight kit into the Burn but prefer the Exodus for anything more b/c everything fits inside with ease. The Burn (for me) sometimes requires more careful arranging of gear and putting a little more than the basics in the main mesh pocket. That said, it is a great little pack.

I don't think a person, carrying identical weights in each pack, would feel any difference in the few added ounces of the Burn. I'd say go for whichever fits best for you.

Edit: I don't seem to hear much about it, but have you looked at the SMD Feather?

Brad,Both are highly rated. I used the 2012 Murmur intensivly last year logging about 4 week long trips with it and a long weekend...about 47 nights all told...Likes:1) VERY comfortable.2) VERY efficient...Pad pockets kept my sleeping pad, saving internal volume. Rear Pouch was plenty large for any expansion (this was also a problem.) 3) Can fit a bear-ball.4) "Just" fits two weeks of supplies, though it is overloaded.5) Rain flap worked well.

Dislikes (note that I have communicated this to Grant, newer ones are corrected.)1) Strap Slippage on the first ones, slick, nylon straps tended to move slightly within the buckles, over time, loostening them when walking. Corrected.2) Front Pouch was too big. If you put a log book,fuel bottle, extra food in there it sagged below the bottom of the pack causing a LOT of abrasion when setting the pack down. Corrected.3) 2nd run had some mis-placed shoulder straps. Also, the seams were not folded/rolled but simply stiched, these pulled through the fabric leaving a frayed edge. Corrected. I would also state that they had some trouble with the person(s) doing the sewing for them (shoulder harness and seams) and no long works for them.

The Murmur easily handled 23 pounds at the beginning of two week trips. It was not uncomfortable at all. 'Corse, it is hard to find anything uncomfortable about 20-25 pounds on your back. It seems small but it also includes pouches in the size figures.

The MLD Burn is a much larger pack, the main body will hold 2200ci. Really they are not comparable. After adding in the side pouches/front pouch it is a quarter bigger. After adding options, like a lid/pouch, it is more than that. It is also more durable being nearly full DyneemaX. It is also heavier and not as efficient, lacking an external pad keeper/pad frame. If you like pouches, this is the way to go. Top lid, waist pouches, stow pouches, and hydration sleeve are addons! A complete pack will be about $285 and weigh about 17oz and can handle about 3000ci. But, because of the internal pad keeping (yes, they sell the internal Klymit frame, too,) some of this volume is lost, taken up by the pad/frame.

The MLD Burn is twice the pack, but is also about twice the price. It is less efficient than the Murmur but has better overall durability, but this is a judgement call. For day trips, quick overnight trips, I would highly tend to the Murmur (knowing any failure would not put me at risk) so the lighter weight (~9oz) would be my choice. A striped Burn comes close, but the lower carying efficiency is the clincher. As you said, "The Murmur appears lighter, while the burn sturdier." But, this does not consider load carrying efficiency (external pad keeper.)

Those add up to 2300ci, so not sure where MLD gets 2200ci. In any case, going by listed specs Burn is not much larger, they're basically identical in size. Here are numbers from GG webpage, where they apparently include side pockets in main pocket:" 2,200 c.i. (36 l.) total 1,700 c.i. (28 l.) in main pack body/extension collar 500 c.i. (8 l.) in main pocket"GG Murmur webpage

"The MLD Burn is twice the pack, but is also about twice the price."

$175 for Burn to $140 for Murmur doesn't seem to me "about twice the price". Though I agree with others that Kumho is the more analogous GG pack.

"A complete Burn with all the features is still about $285 and considerably heavier."

I agree MLD listed capacities are confusing, but looking carefully it's clear that total capacity is 2200ci-2300ci.

As for features, a $175 Burn has basically same "features" as the $140 Murmur. Pack, sternum strap, waistbelt, front packet, and side pockets.

All the options MLD lists are basically generic addon items that aren't really part of a pack proper: pack lid, rain cover, hydration pack, stow pouch, etc. You can buy them for the Murmur same as the Burn; I myself have a Murmur to which I've added one of MLD's strap pockets.

For short trips, consider the Newt, with the Amphipod system:http://www.runningwarehouse.com/descpage-ARLAS2.html

Gets water off your back and directly onto your body. Can see how much you consume, easily to refill, easy to access, and more stable. I've mountain biked with them on rough trails at pretty high speed, so no worries about losing a bottle.

It's a bit more skin-out weight (6oz for me), but it's more like carrying an extra few ounces of body mass (negligable). The belt is 1.85oz (size 2), the snap connectors are 0.75oz each, and the 10oz bottles are 1.85oz each.

Add a shoulder pouch from Zpacks/Zimmerbuilt for the quick access stuff like camera, compass, snacks, etc. Carry a 2+L Platypus for camp use and mixing water with tablets.

I actually bought this one for mountain biking (holds a pump, tube, UL first aid kit, a small flashlight, a powerbar, a tube repair kit, and a small bike multitool):http://www.amphipod.com/products/hydration/hydration-belts/runlite-hydration-belts/runlite-trail-endurance

And then bought just the belt for backpacking:http://www.runningwarehouse.com/descpage-AMRASB.html

Other options:http://www.runningwarehouse.com/descpage-CBARC2.htmlhttp://www.runningwarehouse.com/descpage-CBARC4.html