Turkey Vultures fly with their wings in a dihedral (V-shape). They are most graceful in flight, and can soar for hours at high altitudes without ever
flapping their wings. Their occasional necessary flaps and takeoffs are quite laborious, however, and the birds often fall victim to predators and
cars as a result.
How the Turkey Vulture Flies:
The turkey vulture is one of the most skilled gliders among the North American birds. It migrates across the continents with minimal energy output.
Vultures launch themselves from their perches only after the morning air has warmed. Then, they circle upward, searching for pockets of rising warm
air, or thermals. Once they have secured a thermal, they allow it to carry them upward in rising circles. When they reach the top of the thermal,
they dive across the sky at speeds near 60 miles per hour, losing altitude until they reach another thermal. All this is done without the necessity
to flap. In fact, the turkey vulture can glide for over 6 hours at a time without flapping a wing!

There you have it the video is consistent with a "Kettle" of Turkey Vultures.

your right, they do look like big birds, and seem to be moving fast, but its and optical illusion, the birds are infact much closer to you than the
shuttle you are focusing on , so they look huge! and seeem to be flying through huge distances very quickly,

So rewinding 3 pages and 2 hours, i feel this picture needs slightly more explaination as it now seems to be the exact same scenario as we have with
our shuttle and 'birds' video.

These aren't giant desert spiders as you first see, they are just small/medium sized spiders hanging from the soldier's uniform arm (see very right
of photo, you can make out his uniform cuff/sleeve.)
BUT your eyes are immediatly drawn to the spiders and the other soldiers legs. The other soldier is stood some paces away and combines to give an
optical illusion that the spiders are bigger than they really are!

A collision with vultures from wildlife refuge could cause serious damage to spacecraft

NASA plans to deploy such measures as battlefield noises and baited traps to keep vultures away from the shuttle Discovery's launchpad in Florida
next month, because a collision could be disastrous.

The agency began anti-bird efforts at Kennedy Space Center, which is home to a wildlife refuge, in the late 1990s after woodpeckers drilled holes in
Discovery's fuel tank as it awaited launch. But tactics that worked with small birds didn't faze vultures.
Space officials didn't worry much about that until last July, when Discovery smashed into a vulture just after liftoff. There was no damage to the
ship, but NASA has been hypervigilant about anything hitting the shuttle since foam debris struck Columbia during launch in 2003. The impact led to
the loss of the ship and its crew upon re-entry.
That piece of foam weighed 1.7 pounds. A vulture weighs 3 to 5 pounds.
"A bird the size of a vulture can take out the shuttle if you hit it fast enough," says Stephen Payne, a NASA test director. So "we were asked to
make sure we don't hit another vulture on the way up."

Apparently NASA Saw these soaring Turkey Vultures too , and realized the risk of hitting another one "if you hit it fast enough".

Originally posted by SpittinCobra
This shows nothing, I see the smoke far behind the clouds.

HOLY CRAP HOW CAN YOU BE SO BLIND??!??! Now I have to cut and blow up the picture even more so your blind ass will see it. This is by far the most
funny group of people to ever debate me.. you ignore the OBVIOUS PICTURES OF THE OBJECT DISAPEARING INTO THE SMOKE FROM THE SHUTTLE. That means the
object IS IN FACT 11,500 feet in the air.

NASA plans to deploy such measures as battlefield noises and baited traps to keep vultures away from the shuttle Discovery's launchpad

We have already discussed that birds are a factor, there are clear images of birds.. The images I am showing are NOT birds. They are to BIG.

Notice how they say "deploy battlefield noises". Have you ever herd the shuttle take off?? You better have, because I just posted a video with a
good example of the explosions coming from the back of the shuttle. Those explosions are enough to scare all the birds away, which is totally visible
in the video, you see 3 or 4 birds flying AWAY from the shuttle because of the noise.. but the objects in the sky way above dont seem to be afraid of
it do they, they actually like to fly through the smoke..

Also it says "away from the shuttle Discovery's launchpad"... you see.. "launchpad", it says nothing about "flight path".

Originally posted by LAES YVAN
OBVIOUSLY GOES BEHIND/INTO THE SMOKE FROM THE SHUTTLE. This is taken from the almost very end of the video.

More solid proof than ANYONE HAS PROVIDED yet.

As i have said before the bird is circling - that means the bird is clearly visable from the side when flying left to right. It then turns towards the
camera and appears to disappear. It then continues it's turn and flys from right to left, as it does it re-appears on the film as the difference in
the surface area of the bird viewed from the side as opposed to viewed head-on is enough for it to disappear on film WHEN viewed through this hand
held camcorder, pointed into the sky, on a bright sunny day, at unspecified zoom levels, etc. etc.

Please i ask you LAES to go away for ten minutes, clear your head, then view this film again without your "i want to believe" glasses on and see
these birds freely flying normally as they do everyday.

Originally posted by SpittinCobra
I see the black object fly from the cloud toward the smoke. It only appears and disappeared where you started and finished the video.

[edit on 12-6-2006 by SpittinCobra]

i finished the video because the object completely disappeared from sight. It no longer was visible because it was behind the smoke. In the original
video, you can clearly see the frame AFTER it disappears into the shuttles smoke. Which are empty. Also 2 other objects disappear into the smoke
exactly the same way BEFORE the last one, which is the one I turned into a GIF animation.

Ok, I have looked at this video so many times my eyes are watering. I have been trying to see exactly what you were trying to show us with the black
objects. I was honestly trying to study the sizes, perspectives, and even see if they passed through the clouds.

My conclusion?

ITS FRIGGIN BRIDS.

Your own arguements tend to show me this.

If the plume is 100 feet wide as you say, then the black spots, which are less than even a tenth of the size of the width of the plume, would be well
within the range for birds. They even fly and move like predatory birds, like hawks, vultures, ect.

Not only that, but after watching the videos, both fast clip, normal, and looking at your pics, the birds are not flying through the clouds, they are
flying behind the plume. Also, I do not believe they were as high as you seem to think they were. Angle up perspective makes them look higher.

They certainly are not government esperimental aircraft. The government would not be flying secret craft during an event in which cameras world wide
are trained on the sky, nor would they fly so dangerously close to the shuttle, according to your estimates of the speeds and altitude of the objects.
The government might occasionally fly test craft over a populated region, but they certainly are not going to flaunt their toys when thousands of
people on the ground and world wide have their eyes trained on the section of sky they are flying in. They arent gonna broadcast to the world: look at
our top secret flying crafts!

Im sorry, but try as I might, I see nothing but birds. I do believe in the reality of UFOs, but this isn't a genuine ufo incident. Its an
IFO=Identified flying object.

Can you warn them for hijacking a thread?? Posting videos in this section that don't belong. I'm trying to have a civilized debate, and they cant
seem to get past their same arguments. I'm a broken record, they dont see the objects disappearing into the smoke, its like they arent even watching
it. they have this weird hunch that I'm trying to fool them... but i really am trying to find the truth.. Convince me that its a bird.. please do...
so far no one has...

SKADI they are flying both IN and OUT of the CLOUDS and teh SMOKE from the Shuttle. They are not flapping, and they are NOT 1/10th the side
they are about 1/8th the size of 100 feet. That would make them 20 feet. No bird in the world is 20 feet. The perspective arguement is KILLED because
they fly through a section of the smoke that was created when the shuttle reached 11,500 feet.

We have already discussed that birds are a factor, there are clear images of birds.. The images I am showing are NOT birds. They are to
BIG.

And its been pointed out that only you percieve that they are " to BIG". I think they look like Turkey Vultures.

Originally posted by LAES YVAN

Notice how they say "deploy battlefield noises". Have you ever herd the shuttle take off?? You better have, because I just posted a video with a
good example of the explosions coming from the back of the shuttle. Those explosions are enough to scare all the birds away, which is totally visible
in the video, you see 3 or 4 birds flying AWAY from the shuttle because of the noise.. but the objects in the sky way above dont seem to be afraid of
it do they, they actually like to fly through the smoke..

I think you missed the point , after the shuttle is launching is too late. You want the birds out of the area before the Shuttle Launches.

Originally posted by LAES YVAN

Also it says "away from the shuttle Discovery's launchpad"... you see.. "launchpad", it says nothing about "flight path".

It say's if the hit one going fast enough it would be catastrophic for the Shuttle.

How do you suppose that you would hit a "Vulture" with a Shuttle going " fast enough" without hitting it in the Flight Path?

Did you notice that the article said NASA developed a RADAR specifically to detect object the size of Turkey Vultures so they can scrub a Launch if
any are near the area?

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