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Built with tables?

Note by Flynn: This thread started 2010.
ThemeFrame does NOT use tables for layout (or for anything else).

I'm very interested in the idea of ThemeFrame, but my big question is: are the generated themes - like Atahualpa - laid out with tables to create the 2/3 column layout?

That's the big issue that stops me using Atahualpa more. As web designers, I beleive we should just not be using tables to create layout any more, no matter how convenient that might be. It's neither semantically correct nor is it accessible - and so could not be used for public sector type clients who have to follow policies on these matters.

If you've found a way around that, great, I'm in! If not I'll have to sit it out until there's an option for this (I remember you mentioned this as a possibility for Atahualpa).

I'll be very interested to hear the answer!

Thanks.

Martin

#2

Aug 26, 2010, 12:55 PM

Flynn

3,768 posts · Oct 2008

Munich, Germany

TF creates the columns with a table because you cannot build flexible layouts that work well in IE 6. If any item (image, table, form select field, long words) in any of the columns is too wide by IE6's measurement (which is different from other browsers, so everything still looks fine in other browsers) the whole right column will drop way down below the layout and move to the left.

Nonetheless a DIV-only option is coming, because for static width Layouts there isn't that dropping sidebar issue. That option won't come within the next few weeks, but it is high on my to-do list. The reason I started with the table-colgroup-div technique is that it can do both static and flexible width reliably

On a side note, this is a bit more than just "using a table", the layout technique in Atahualpa/Themeframe works with the colgroup element to set the column widths, and a DIV wrapped around everything. Simply using a table would cause other issues, for instance while no sidebar would drop, the table would expand beyond the desired width causing vert. scrollbars whenever it encountered too-wide-elements.

This does not happen with the way I am using both a table AND CSS Div's, which in my opinion combines the best of a DIV and a table

But as mentioned DIV-only will come, was even planned from the beginning...

#3

Aug 26, 2010, 07:35 PM

bookmom

42 posts · Aug 2009

I'm looking forward to that option. I noticed that Facebook dropped support for IE6 this week, so the dinosaur will soon become extinct.

And what about some kind of grid-based layout? That would make magazine-style layouts a lot easier.

Last edited by bookmom; Aug 27, 2010 at 08:00 AM.

#4

Aug 28, 2010, 04:53 AM

Flynn

3,768 posts · Oct 2008

Munich, Germany

Quote:

Originally Posted by bookmom

I'm looking forward to that option. I noticed that Facebook dropped support for IE6 this week, so the dinosaur will soon become extinct.

And what about some kind of grid-based layout? That would make magazine-style layouts a lot easier.

I will probably integrate the 960 grid system. It is fairly established and the license fits also

#5

Aug 28, 2010, 06:57 AM

bookmom

42 posts · Aug 2009

That's exactly the one I was thinking about. Thanks!

#6

Aug 28, 2010, 08:04 AM

paulae

1,333 posts · Feb 2009

Wordpress 3.4.1, Atahualpa 3.7.7

Flynn, will you fold this idea into Atahualpa at some point as well? I want to use the theme for a client, but it's a municipal site and they have a no-tables rule.

#7

Sep 4, 2010, 03:46 AM

Gravity

34 posts · Sep 2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by bookmom

And what about some kind of grid-based layout? That would make magazine-style layouts a lot easier.

For what it's worth, the key thing I'm looking for is a magazine-style layout capability. In case of terminology differences, what I mean is that is has a set of sections, for the top-most few post categories, each say section divided into thirds, each third is the most recent post of a sub-category. I don't think current beta of Themeframe will provide that layout functionality, but this 960 grid thing seems pretty nifty.

#8

Feb 28, 2011, 01:07 PM

aravere

56 posts · Sep 2010

rural Virginia, US

Reading through this post, I was excited to hear that the 960 Grid system will be implemented into Atahualpa. Then I saw the date of the thread: 2008!

I have a Photoshopped design (or see link below) that I really need to convert to a website, and I'd like to continue using Atahualpa. One thing that I have been wishing for in my current Atahualpa theme (see www.timothychambers.com) is more flexibility in the middle section. A Google search led me to the 960 Grid System. That sounded great! However, being a newbie, I need the security blanket that the bytesforall forum provides.

So...when and how will the 960 grid work? Any suggestions for turning my design into a working site?

Here is a screencast of a quickly thrown together idea of how you could break the theme into sections. This idea uses no sidebars. Does this give you any thoughts?

__________________~Larry (CNY Web Designs)
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Please consider donating which gives you access to even more good stuff.

#10

Feb 28, 2011, 01:47 PM

aravere

56 posts · Sep 2010

rural Virginia, US

Hmmm...thanks, Larry. Okay, so the widgets can be made to a full-page width with a certain height. I can imagine setting that in ATO. That leaves me with two questions off the bat:
1. how can I subdivide the widgets to have the different (individual) sections within it; in this example there's one box that's full width, and then three boxes below each approximately of 1/3 width.
2. can I have more than two widgets? E.g., if I had three rows of 'boxes', then I'd have three widgets with three boxes each?

In 2008, Flynn was thinking of integrating the 960 grid system. That system seems like it's made for dividing up the page like I'm talking about here. Is this what you're thinking?

Larry- thanks for your attention and help!

__________________
I am using WP 3.5.1 and ATA 3.4.6

#11

Feb 28, 2011, 01:54 PM

lmilesw

10,174 posts · Jul 2009

Central New York State USA

You would put one single sell widget area in and after that have a three celled widget area. If you use no demensions they will default to 1/3 of the width.

__________________~Larry (CNY Web Designs)
This site should be a membership site since it so full of good stuff.
Please consider donating which gives you access to even more good stuff.

#12

Feb 28, 2011, 02:04 PM

aravere

56 posts · Sep 2010

rural Virginia, US

and the single-celled widget defaults to the page width? Or do I set that? As for the number of cells, I determine that, right, but the number of things I put in the widget?