Green Room

Alienating Muslims and calling it Conservatism … great.

Bryan Fischer took a shot at Muslim places of worship from his watchtower blog (Rightly Concerned, Cautiously Observing the Left, from the Right) Tuesday with a fiery “No more mosques, period” entry.

Advocating the denial of permission for a single additional mosque to be built here in the U.S., Fischer asserts that “each Islamic mosque is dedicated to the overthrow of the American government.” The mosque, he says, is simply too dangerous:

Each one is a potential jihadist recruitment and training center, and determined to implement the “Grand Jihad” of which Andy McCarthy has written.

Here is the strategy, in their own words, in the words of “An Explanatory Memorandum” circulated by the Muslim Brotherhood in 1991 which outlines “the General Strategic Goal” for the Islamic movement “in North America.”

Read it and shudder:

Muslims “must understand that their work in America is a kind of grand Jihad in eliminating and destroying the Western civilization from within and ‘sabotaging’ its miserable house by their hands and the hands of the believers so that it is eliminated and God’s religion is made victorious over all other religions…It is a Muslim’s destiny to perform Jihad and work wherever he is and wherever he lands until the final hour comes, and there is no escape from that destiny…” (emphasis mine)

Because of this subversive ideology, Muslims cannot claim religious freedom protections under the First Amendment. They are currently using First Amendment freedoms to make plans to destroy the First Amendment altogether. There is no such thing as freedom of religion in Islam, and it is sheer and utter folly for Americans to delude themselves into thinking otherwise.

Fischer is clearly out of line here, especially in speaking for conservative ideology.

He implies that all mosques are under the influence of the Muslim Brotherhood, whose overt agenda is, by the way, a dangerous one. He also implies that all Muslims are ruled by a “subversive ideology” which then disqualifies them from religious freedom in this country.

The terrorism of 2001 made Muslim Americans a suspicious target in a similar way that the bombing of Pearl Harbor incited mistrust of Japanese Americans. Of course, Muslims, and, namely Arab Americans are not being rounded into internment camps, but a proposal like Fischer’s would lead to a similar event: the hasty removal of rights from Americans without due process.

True conservatives stand for the constitutional rights of all Americans to be upheld.

In contrast to Fischer’s “no more mosque” strategy, a study released in January this year by professors from Duke University and the University of North Carolina claims that “a variety of practices of Muslim-American communities may be helping to prevent and address instances of radicalization”.

One study is not enough to form a solid opinion, but the information may be helpful.

While I don’t agree with Fischer on his main thesis, I do agree that caution about certain Islamic organizations, like the Muslim Brotherhood, is perfectly legitimate. These concerns however should be addressed by providing clear evidence and specific solutions. If there is a specific mosque or any gathering place where anti-American ideology or plots are formed, then consequences should follow.

Additionally, Fischer’s “facts” are propped up with loaded language and yet lacking in primary source material:

The Saudis already provide the funding for 80% of the mosques in America, sowing their seeds of subversion and violent overthrow on a weekly basis in one American city after another. And it’s not just in major metropolitan areas. Murfreesboro, Tennessee is engulfed in a community controversy over Muslim plans to build a jihadist recruitment center (aka a mosque) there.

One last thing to address with Fischer’s blog post is its connection with the American Family Association which claims to “communicate an outspoken, resolute, Christian voice throughout America.” Fischer is speaking for American Christians with a message that clearly generalizes and alienates Muslims.

As a regular reader of the Bible, friend of many Muslims in Minnesota and California, and student of Islamic religion and culture, I cannot agree with Fischer. And I would challenge anyone who is considering the “no more mosques” ideology to get to know at least one Muslim before they make a decision.

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Connie, but the failure to separate the religion from the crimes of a fraction of its more extreme followers is the problem here. AQ sends twenty people to commit an attack and Americans are now branding it an attack from Islam and think to hold a billion people responsible and an entire religion criminal.
They think it reasonable to strip away First Amendment rights from people who’ve done nothing.

They think it reasonable to strip away First Amendment rights from people who’ve done nothing.

audiculous on August 12, 2010 at 11:42 PM

Building a church is not a first amendment right. Refusing to license a church building does not impinge upon the free exercise of the adherents’ religion. Or perhaps you’d care to tell me how it does?

You see Audi, in Islam, there is no separation of church and state. Muslims believe that building is an act of worship, just as everything they do is an act of worship. Statutorily there is nothing that says we have to let them build. NOTHING.

gryp, you raised that point already and I answered it. denying use of a space to one particular religion is exactly a stripping away of First Amendment rights.

it doesn’t matter if you think that there’s separation of religious and state authority under Sharia law, dude, because we’re not planning on joining in that, are we?
I’m gonna stick to the system we have in this country. I like it and am not going to throw it away because some bunch of scummers attacked my city. I’m going to keep on with defending it and the defense would be easier if there weren’t quite so many chickenspit Americans giving up.
they’re wrong and they’re weak and running scared doesn’t do anything but make us weaker.

it doesn’t matter if you think that there’s separation of religious and state authority under Sharia law, dude, because we’re not planning on joining in that, are we?

audiculous on August 13, 2010 at 12:36 AM

I am not planning on joining that. But if you are for affording Muslims rights that other religions don’t have (like building houses of worship), then you’ve already given up the fight before it started.

And as for the premise of your argument, I reject it TOTALLY. If denying a license to build a house of worship strips a religion of its first amendment rights, then that happens all the time in America. You just ignore the facts that aren’t convenient to your narrative.

But if you are for affording Muslims rights that other religions don’t have (like building houses of worship)

be a pal and re-read what I’ve written. I’ve said the opposite of that. I’ve said that I want them to have the SAME rights as everybody else, not less and certainly not any more.

and for the love of reason stop pulling that crap about enying a license to build a house of worship when it’s not a house of worship that everyone means to deny, but a house of worship of ONE PARTICULAR RELIGION and only that particular one. If it was a Buddhist temple, a synagogue or a sports bar, nobody would be blathering.

The Ground Zero Cordoba MEGA Mosque makes me think of U.S. Marines victoriously raising the flag on Iwo Jima, or a dog triumphantly marking it’s territory. Make no mistake about it, that is what the Ground Zero Cordoba MEGA Mosque is.

Forty-eight Christians were martyred in Cordoba in the mid eight-hundreds AD, being beheaded for various “insults” against Islam. They sacrificed so much, as have so many others, and now most of America is so paralyzed by unreasoning PC that it can not even speak and it is clear that anyone who at all understands Islam and equates it with “just another religion” is guilty of moral depravity in extremis.

The “religion” that by far and away shows the very least in the way of sensibilities, to say the least, to others not just wants, but expects, the very most in the way of sensibilities to be shown to it. Absolutely astounding. The only thing more astounding is that any non-muslim would put up with this crap. Islam is an obscene blot on all life on Earth, a utter disgrace on mankind and a foul scourge against womankind that should perish from the Earth and the sooner the better.

slam does not teach the same sort of compassion for the other that virtually every other religion including today’s “secular humanism” teaches. Muslims murder and torture each other without compunction and their own ummah, “brotherhood” has no condemnation to offer. That’s because they don’t value individual human life the way Christian westerners do. It’s not a concept in Islam, which means it’s not a concept in Muslims “hearts and minds”. Their hearts and minds instead understand what Allah teaches them in the Koran, namely, the Collective Will to Power.

When will our leaders understand this? And moreover understand that it is necessary in the end to treat Muslims in the way they themselves understand moral principles? Which ultimately means that they must be beaten back and vanquished and humiliated by a greater strength.

That is clearly what they understand. Every move to win their hearts and minds only strengthens them, emboldens them to advance their own peculiar ethics of the world, which couldn’t give a damn about “hearts and minds”, as we understand the term. They will accept the shehada from anyone they can swindle and connive to recite it while at the same time are willing to kill anyone who leaves Islam. Whatever it takes to build the army of Islamic soldiers is what their ethics is about.

There is no way of avoiding the reality that the adults in this world are going to have to act like adults and step up and slap, and in a big way, Muslims who have made of their own societies the equivalent of “Lord of the Flies” and who now threaten to overrun every more advanced society with their mayhem.

We’re going to have to come to terms this reality. Either that or it’s simply going to be cruel for all of us, with no kindness in sight, and possibly no one left to come and rescue us off an Island from Hell that in our passivity and cowardice we allowed to be taken over by moral pygmies.

Where is the reciprocity? There is none. Why must “inter-faith” rapprochement always be expressed in the building of a mosque? It is a contradiction as Islam is actually the sole religion that does not play well with the others and insists on being supreme wherever Muslims dominate! Until Muslim nations let non-Muslims build their houses of worship wherever they please, in numbers proportionate to mosques built in the West, there should be a moratorium on mosque building. This one-sided demand for religious tolerance “Houses of worship for me but not thee” makes fools out of us.

Any charges of Islamophobia should be given a rest unless and until non-Muslims are given equal rights to Muslims in Muslim states. Start with stopping the active persecution of non-Muslims, their beheadings, withholding of citizenship and jobs, confiscation of wealth etc. The attacks BY Muslims outweigh in numbers and depravity anything done to Muslims. Arab Muslim militias at the behest of a Muslim government have slaughtered half a million blacks and displaced millions in Sudan alone. It is Muslims who should be defensive about their religion’s hideous record in the World,, not us. Use whatever monies were made available for the Cordoba mosque to pay reparations in Sudan. This ideology of death disguised as a religion has no business building more colonial outposts in the West.

Islam as a religion elevates and follows a man who was nothing more than a psychopath, murderous warlord, and by modern-day standards a sexual deviant and pedophile. Islam as a political entity is based upon complete submission and seeks only to subjugate and suppress every freedom we cherish in western civilization. Until Islam undergoes a reformative process bringing it into alignment with the rest of the world, then I shall reject it, and stand against it. The converse I find reprehensible; to convert, be subjugated, or die, which are the Koranic options given to me, a non-Muslim.

I will gladly peacefully coexist with Islam. Can the same be said in reverse? And do not tell me about the Koranic verse stating, “there is no compulsion in religion,” because I understand the theory of naskh or abrogation. That means that the later verses of the Koran supersede previous verses. As a result, most violent verses in the Koran abrogate previous “peaceful” writings.

Have I just committed hate speech? No, it is the truth according to the Koran and the Hadiths, and I have no fear in stating such. I will not allow Western civilization nor America to be paralyzed by soft or hard jihad, by legal tactics, nor kinetic attacks. I pledge to fight, not for myself, but for others, for our future and legacy which we leave our children and grandchildren. Any man that cannot find the courage to do so as well, especially leaders in western civilization, I call a coward.

Apparently, the 1st amendment is now an invitation to shut up, bend over and grab your ankles? Not in my America, Jack!

Why are areligious Quislings– who reflexively vomit over school (*gasp*) Christmas pageants– suddenly the arbiters of what’s reasonable at Ground Zero?

Submissiveness to Imam Rauf’s Islamo-supremacist demands sends the message that Americans are Quislings and cowards.

Are American Quislings (in both parties) prepared to let Cordoba House intellectually bully them into accepting Imam Rauf’s false assertion– that sharia law advocacy is (somehow) representative of moderate Muslims?

American Muslims may be the very soul of moderation. But I don’t think it’s unreasonable for secular Americans (Muslim and non-Muslim alike) to ask for more from (allegedly) “peaceful” Cordoba House jihadists than insincere bromides and disingenuous whitewashing of uncomfortable elements of Islamic sharia law, as practiced by the Cordoba House cabal and their financial sponsors.

A genuine tiny minority of anti-jihadist Muslims may be found @ SecularIslam.org.

Americans remain breathless in anticipation of the sharia law vendors of Cordoba House supporting this genuinely tiny minority of their co-religionists– but don’t hold your breath.

“Ye blind guides, that strain out the gnat, and swallow the camel!” [Matthew 23:24]

Muslims should first be required to return Muslim-occupied Cyprus and the Hostage Ghost City of Famagusta (home of the desecrated St. Nicholas Cathedral)— then Islamo-supremacists of Cordoba House (and their Leftist-fascist allies) can howl about their alleged “right” to desecrate Ground Zero.

Quislings don’t confront real evil; and hate those who do. You can see this on almost any school playground. The kid who confronts the school bully is often resented more than the bully. Whether out of guilt over their own cowardice or out of fear that the one who confronted the bully will provoke the bully to lash out more, those who refuse to confront the bully often resent the one who does.

Today, Leftist-Quislings express that cowardly contempt for those of us who take a hard line with Islamo-supremacists. It’s ever our fault for provoking these bullies. Better to remain supine while the sharia law advocates satisfy themselves raising money for terrorists; tormenting American widows and orphans at Ground Zero; erecting their monument to Islamo-triumphalism.

MadisonConservative, that wasn’t anything of an attack, that was a fair summation of Tav’s comments on this thread, but to be fair, they weren’t as bad as those of the Twerp Mole. Them comments is snarling, drooling idiocy.

Left out of this fairly naked effort to demonize the vast majority of Americans is the simple fact that Cordoba House support has tanked in the polls for weeks.

The latest poll? By a margin of 61 to 26 percent, New Yorkers oppose the proposal to build the Cordoba House.

“Large majorities of all New Yorkers, every party, region and age give a thumbs-down to the Cordoba House Mosque being built near the Ground Zero site,” said Dr. Don Levy, the institute’s director, in a press release.

Thus, their silly demonization campaign should be accepted for what it is– delusional and disconnected.

The Tiny Minority Fallacy is as much use in understanding crime as it is in understanding cancer. I weigh about 85kg, 5% of which is 4.25kg. If my doctor told me I had cancer of the bowel, lungs, and brain but that the total weight of all tumorous tissue in my body was no more than 4.25kg and that there was therefore no particular cause for alarm, I would find a different doctor. To imply that cancer needs to be something other than a tiny minority of one’s body weight before it constitutes an existential threat would be to misunderstand cancer. So it is with crime and criminals.

Quislings have apparently been in a coma (both before and after 9/11) since they appear to think 9/11 was the only incident of Muslims attacking non-Muslims. If they weren’t in a coma, there’s no excuse for such gross stupidity.

Muslims must take some responsibility for their global jihad when thousands of their co-religionists over the past two decades kill thousands of innocents of every religion around the world; and when they deprive non-Muslims of their human rights in 57 of 57 Muslim governed countries.

Look. American Muslims may be the very soul of moderation. But I don’t think it’s unreasonable for folks to ask for more from (allegedly) “peaceful” Muslims than disingenuous whitewashing of uncomfortable elements of Islamic sharia tradition, as practiced in Iran, Gaza, Kashmir, Malaysia, the Paris banlieue… and (pointedly) Cordoba House in NYC.

A genuine tiny minority of anti-jihadist Muslims may be found @ SecularIslam.org.

Americans remain breathless in anticipation of the vast majority of (allegedly) “peaceful” American Muslims supporting this genuinely tiny minority of their co-religionists… but don’t hold your breath.

Hate speech? Incitement to violence? Sounds like it to me; but a knowledgeable Muslim would have to disagree.

Why would Cordoba House Muslims not consider this to be hate speech? How is it that I can post these quotes with full certainty that Cordoba House won’t be contacting WaPo Editors (or Congress) with wild-eyed accusations of Islamophobia?

Whoever follows it is an adherent, weakly or strongly, of an anti-Constitutional, anti-Universal Declaration of Human Rights imperialistic ideology aiming to enslave the world and put us all in a global theocratic gulag.

The hell with that!

Muslims are the first and worst victims of Islam.

They need to be encouraged to look at the malignancies in the Koran and come to their senses about its corrupt, thieving, deceiving, slaveholding, mass-murdering, terroristic, misogynistic, intolerant, plagiariazing pedophile warlord of a founder.