And my point exactly, Chemo is a death sentence, the *majority* of the time.

Untreated cancer is a death sentence even more of the majority of the time, though, on average.

Also, chemo is not a death sentence in some cancers, it is situation specific. It can work very well in certain cancers. From the nonsense I see
touted on this board, "uneducated" is actually closer to the truth than "internet quack site educated", as seems to be the norm in certain places
where people think you can beat cancer with things like juicing, or baking soda.

edit on 6-8-2012 by humphreysjim because: (no reason
given)

9% success rate is laughable. you could reach 9% with placebo or no treatment at all, yet you're touting it's 9% and claiming we are uneducated.
that's made me chuckle quite a bit.

9% figure has been massaged to look good.more like 3%....

in any case loads of people are told they have cancer when they don't.then they get chemo which gives them cancer!

the false positive rate is very high

9% was my bad! I actually thought it was something like 3%, then convinced my self, 3% would be ridiculous, and absurd, so it had to be higher...

humphreysjim I would like to make a few things clear. First of all, you say there is nothing proven to be better than chemotherapy..... Do you
realize that even if there is a natural remedy out there better than the chemo stats, we would not hear about them? Do you know why? No scientific
studies are done on natural remedies, because they cannot be patented, so no one can afford to do the studies to begin with. No one is going to spend
50 million dollars doing extensive studies on something they can't make a profit off of. So chemo therapy will always be the best known cancer
treatment. Even though thousands if not millions of people have spread the word about how vitamin B17 cured their cancer. Or the thousands that have
been cured by drinking hydrogen peroxide, or by the gerson therapy, or by essiac, or many other cancer treatments. There are thousands and thousands
of people out there that have cured their cancer with these methods. But you will never hear about it in scientific studies. But isn't it better
to hear about it from people that have actually experienced it? I don't need someone to analyze why it works, if it works. Our dependency on these
things having to be proven in a lab is getting a bit ridiculous.... WHAT DID WE DO BEFORE SCIENCE LABS EXISTED? Look up the hunza people, and many
other native tribes around the world. they live literally disease free. They have no science labs to tell them what nature knows best. They learned
by nature, and they trust nature. We need to do the same thing. It's time that we realized that nature has provided all the cures, to every
disease. From herbs to natural chemicals, the cure is out there, and hopefully one day, "alternative medicine" will be known as medicine. And its
time we stopped being so ignorant about nature. If someone comes to me and says they cured their cancer naturally, I would try what they tried long
before I would try a man made chemical that does as much harm as it does good. How can we ignore what people say? Colloidal silver has been known to
be a major disinfectant, of just about all types of bacteria. But again, its natural, can't be patented, so there is no profit. Hasn't anyone
noticed that they haven't cured a disease since 1954???? How is it even possible that in the last 60 years we have no discovered a single cure, with
the billions we donate to research?? People wake up. All anti-biotics have been patented. Anything that can't be patented is told off as a fraud
or quackery..... its BS, that is the real BS around here. If allopathic medicine has its way, then there will be no such thing as a natural remedy.
They are turning us against nature itself, and its time we woke up.

Cancer is a very profitable business for the medical establishment. Chemotherapy is extremely profitable for the pharmaceutical companies, with some
of the drugs costing around $5000 per bottle. It would be naive to think that they would allow for effective alternatives to go through the official
route of validation without a strong opposition. Adding to this the fact that some people with authority are for population control and you get the
bigger picture. So far the most promising alternatives have been Dr Bruzynski's antineoplaston therapy and juice fasting by the Gerson institute that
I know of. The rest are strange remedies in my opinion, like Essiac, sodium bicarbonate and others. It will be a long road until the other possible
cures are given a fair trial against the existing practices. It's hard to go against trillion dollar establishments.

Whether or not Dr Bruzynski's antineoplaston therapy is worthwhile is yet to be shown in clinical trials (supposedly underway) but he seems to be
doing ok in the profit department. www.burzynskiclinic.com...

Abstract
AIMS: The debate on the funding and availability of cytotoxic drugs raises questions about the contribution of curative or adjuvant cytotoxic
chemotherapy to survival in adult cancer patients.

MATERIALS AND METHODS: We undertook a literature search for randomised clinical trials reporting a 5-year survival benefit attributable solely to
cytotoxic chemotherapy in adult malignancies. The total number of newly diagnosed cancer patients for 22 major adult malignancies was determined from
cancer registry data in Australia and from the Surveillance Epidemiology and End Results data in the USA for 1998. For each malignancy, the absolute
number to benefit was the product of (a) the total number of persons with that malignancy; (b) the proportion or subgroup(s) of that malignancy
showing a benefit; and (c) the percentage increase in 5-year survival due solely to cytotoxic chemotherapy. The overall contribution was the sum total
of the absolute numbers showing a 5-year survival benefit expressed as a percentage of the total number for the 22 malignancies.

RESULTS: The overall contribution of curative and adjuvant cytotoxic chemotherapy to 5-year survival in adults was estimated to be 2.3% in Australia
and 2.1% in the USA.

CONCLUSION: As the 5-year relative survival rate for cancer in Australia is now over 60%, it is clear that cytotoxic chemotherapy only makes a minor
contribution to cancer survival. To justify the continued funding and availability of drugs used in cytotoxic chemotherapy, a rigorous evaluation of
the cost-effectiveness and impact on quality of life is urgently required.

****22 malignancies.**** AND THEY MANAGED TO COME UP WITH THAT FIGURE??? HELP?

From LInk 2:

Incidence and death rates are per 100,000 and are age-adjusted to the 2000 US Std
Population (19 age groups - Census P25-1130).
a SEER 17 areas (San Francisco, Connecticut, Detroit, Hawaii, Iowa, New Mexico, Seattle,
Utah, Atlanta, San Jose-Monterey, Los Angeles, Alaska Native Registry, Rural Georgia,
California excluding SF/SJM/LA, Kentucky, Louisiana and New Jersey).
b US Mortality Files, National Center for Health Statistics, Centers for Disease Control and
Prevention.
c SEER 17 areas. Based on follow-up of patients into 2008.
d Mesotheliomas of the Pleura are included in the separate group Mesothelioma for incidence
but are included in the Pleura grouping for mortality.
- Statistic could not be calculated due to less than 16 cases in the time interval.

Your study has small print.

Theres something fishy. If Cancer had an over all survival rate of 60% it wouldnt be one of the most greatly feared diseases in existance.

****Plus we have two contradicting medical studies, that vary humungously in stats, big difference between 2% and 60%...****

Well I'm going to be starting Chemo in a few weeks. It has kept me alive in the past I am well aware that it wont cure my tumour, but if it gives me
another 5 years, then I want to give it a shot.

It's very easy to talk about statistics, but when you are confronted with a diagnosis, your options are rather limited. To completely dismiss the
recommendations of the specialists and experts, the people who have dedicated their live's to fighting cancer is either very brave or very stupid. I
will be using complimentary therapies along side my Chemo, but I have responded well in the past and fingers crossed I will respond well again.

humphreysjim I would like to make a few things clear. First of all, you say there is nothing proven to be better than chemotherapy..... Do you
realize that even if there is a natural remedy out there better than the chemo stats, we would not hear about them? Do you know why? No scientific
studies are done on natural remedies,

Lot of real drugs are derived from natural remedies. Natural remedies that are shown to work are fashioned into more potent drugs, so this is just
nonsense, sorry.

Originally posted by xxshadowfaxx

Even though thousands if not millions of people have spread the word about how vitamin B17 cured their cancer. Or the thousands that have been cured
by drinking hydrogen peroxide, or by the gerson therapy, or by essiac, or many other cancer treatments.

You are being misled. You are the on who needs to wake up, stop treating the internet and anecdotes as gospel, and enter the real world.

im sorry to hear that you had to go through that... many healthy wishes to thee

ive had 2 cancer scares myself, as on my mums side breast cancer is prominent.... and my mums mum died from it at a very young age... my mums also had
scares too - so far, we've both been clear.

but it is frightening. every time i find a new lump in my breast it scares the hell outta me.
but if i did get cancer, i would like all information available to me, so i can choose which treatment i would like, and which ones to avoid should
they give cause for the cancer to grow...

im sorry to hear that you had to go through that... many healthy wishes to thee

ive had 2 cancer scares myself, as on my mums side breast cancer is prominent.... and my mums mum died from it at a very young age... my mums also had
scares too - so far, we've both been clear.

but it is frightening. every time i find a new lump in my breast it scares the hell outta me.
but if i did get cancer, i would like all information available to me, so i can choose which treatment i would like, and which ones to avoid should
they give cause for the cancer to grow...

Thanks for the well wishes! I hope you never have to face breast cancer or any other kind. Though I had an agressive cancer, I was fortunate to get
rid of it and the operation was just a lumpectomy. Also had 4 lymph nodes removed.

and i never said it would cure.... does it look like chemo is curing...???? does it look like radiation is curing....??? yes, in some cases it can
kill off the cancer, but only in a very small percentage of cases....

If the cancer is killed off, that is a cure, no?

I am not touting chemo as a "cure" anyway, but the quacks are very quick to tout cannabis as a "cure" along with all other manner of nonsense.

i cited scientific studies and you call me a quack? you said it's on lab rats so it doesn't mean anything, where do you think all experiments
start, with people?

Originally posted by woodwardjnr
Well I'm going to be starting Chemo in a few weeks. It has kept me alive in the past I am well aware that it wont cure my tumour, but if it gives me
another 5 years, then I want to give it a shot.

It's very easy to talk about statistics, but when you are confronted with a diagnosis, your options are rather limited. To completely dismiss the
recommendations of the specialists and experts, the people who have dedicated their live's to fighting cancer is either very brave or very stupid. I
will be using complimentary therapies along side my Chemo, but I have responded well in the past and fingers crossed I will respond well again.

wish you the best of luck woodward, i hope you live a long long time yet.

one thing i do know though and that is the specialists and experts, along with the pharmaceutical industry has not been nor ever been dedicated to
fighting cancer, just in cancer management, big difference for us.

If your doctor failed to tell you all of the side effects, risk, complications, alternative treatments then your doctor sucked. I have treated over
200,000 cancer patients. I informed all my patients on ever aspect of their treatment. I am sorry you picked a poor physician to provide your
medical services. I stand by my statement that your broad stroke of a pen provide incorrect information and was negligent. Forgive me if I sound
cruel but daily I would have to fix or inform patients that the doctor they orginally saw did more damage than good. Your post was cruel, and offered
no positive information and sure did not offer a solution. I am tired of people bitching and acting as though they are an expert. But they never get
off their ass and do anything.

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