Dungeons should be harder, much harder. Honestly I want to really have to work for it on launch, like get five people from my guild to have a chance at it. If the dungeons become difficult again then I wouldn't mind having worthwhile items off the last boss, instead of a 1% drop of something you probably already don't need.

you cant be serious can you? the game itself right now is like a private server. only difference is you have to queue to get handed loot instead of opening a vendor with everything on it.

really, what queue is that?... 20 wks of killing the same boss to get a weapon doesn't count as 'private' server... nor does it count as 'being handed loot' I dont mind working for what I have, nor have I ever complained about how loot is distributed... I DO however, take offense to individuals campaigning to make shit even harder for folks... You wouldn't be one of those that is that way, would you?

---------- Post added 2013-05-12 at 02:04 PM ----------

Originally Posted by melodramocracy

If the devs took this attitude, we'd have a much better game on our hands.

and I strongly suspect you'd have a crapton less players, and you'd have less content to cry about. But, folks would cry that there wasn't enough to do, why aren't the devs giving us more content...

Point is... if you want content development, you have to look at who's going to use it... and the intelligent moves are what pleases the most, why make 10 people happy (say hardcore) and piss off 150 (casuals)? when you can do it the other way around.

--- Want any of my Constitutional rights?, ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕI come from a time and a place where I judge people by the content of their character; I don't give a damn if you are tall or short; gay or straight; Jew or Gentile; White, Black, Brown or Green; Conservative or Liberal. -- Note to mods: if you are going to infract me have the decency to post the reason, and expect to hold everyone else to the same standard.

Fixed that for you. The less the devs listen to the rabidly vocal minority like the OP and so many other people here, the better since it's obvious these people have no business sense and would make a game that would exclude most of the players.

Fixed that for you. The less the devs listen to the rabidly vocal minority like the OP and so many other people here, the better since it's obvious these people have no business sense and would make a game that would exclude most of the players.

Is it really the vocal minority though? I mean, it's hard to say that the majority are pleased when the subscription numbers are falling at the rate they are. Obviously the age of the game has more to do with that than anything, but why such a harsh drop so suddenly? Why did the game stop growing in WotLK?

I honestly think most players don't know exactly what they want. I do think that RPGs attract video gamers looking for a simulated adventure of sorts. Oddly enough, I think most of the quality-of-life improvements served the hardcore gamer more than anything... the gamer that plays enough to have a routine, and immediately jumps into the "grind." I honestly believe the vast majority of people who WoW originally attracted were sincere RPG and Warcraft fans, and they got hooked on WoW because WoW provided a virtual adventure unlike any other.

When new MMOs come out and fail, I believe it not to be because they lack certain functions that WoW has, such as Looking For Raid. I believe that no game has managed to capture the grand scale of Azeroth.

This video summarizes much of how I feel about WoW as a game:

I think Blizzard made a great attempt to put the adventure back into WoW with MoP. However, I don't think the people are as interested in the Pandaren as they were with Illidan, the Lich King or even Deathwing. I definitely enjoyed what I played of MoP, and I look forward to what Blizzard does with the game. Despite this, I do think that these quality-of-life improvements have, over time, made it more difficult for Blizzard to give players a sense of adventure. They make the routine MMO grind much more accessible, however I don't think a lot of WoW players sought that grind in the first place. They came to WoW for virtual adventure. And it's harder than ever for Blizzard to instill a sense of adventure in the game.

Stand in cities looking for that healer or tank to do a 5-man instance with, which will turn out to not drop the one item you want, utterly wasting your time (No VPs or JPs, right?), did this very thing many times back in vanilla, it was good for its time, but this is several years later on, nowadays people want to spend more time killing mobs than they spend looking for people to go mob-killing with, the young whipper-snappers! [beats ground with walking stick]

Is it really the vocal minority though? I mean, it's hard to say that the majority are pleased when the subscription numbers are falling at the rate they are. Obviously the age of the game has more to do with that than anything, but why such a harsh drop so suddenly? Why did the game stop growing in WotLK?

No I'm pretty sure it's a vocal minority that want super hard dungeons and raids to keep "the casuals" away from gear. I think the recent sub loss is more due to boring-ass dailies and hard normal raids that make people not bother to play (and no, super easy LFR isn't the solution). From the years I've lurked and read forums, the forums always have a large amount of really loud posters that bring up what's wrong, and this forum seems to have a much higher than average amount of "good" and well-progressed players that constantly berate those beneath them and strongly hint that raids should be exclusive content not meant for everyone again.

So yeah, it's a vocal minority, and their opinions should be dismissed without a second thought.

Attunements were nothing more but a pre-planned progression route.
There are complaints about the current expectation to grind out reputations as a route for gearing up for raid content, but really why are attunements considered so much better when were even more limiting.

The Valor Point gearing system is far from perfect, primarily in that the gear offered by the reputations takes way too much of a grind to obtain and should imo be from justice points or at least having a significantly reduced reputation requirement. Maybe both.
But what it does offer is a guaranteed result, the ability to get an upgrade denied by RNG.

The problem with heroic dungeon difficulty is where they are meant to be, pre-raid content.
They are meant to be a stepping stone between normal difficulty dungeons and normal difficulty raiding.
Is their difficulty too low because the difficulty of LFR is too low, or are they simply in the wrong place.
That is the question you really need to be asking.
Some were certainly too hard previously, and were appealing to the hardcore audience, the sadistic almost.
Those were simply something else entirely.

The colour of a rarity has meant little for a long time.
There were world drops, craftables and others sources for epics which were trivial to obtain compared to the raid ones.
Really that colour NEVER meant anything, with even some Legendaries dictated more by RNG on loot drops than skill.

There was always something to do, because it took so damn long to do it.
The community formed was out of necessity, it was not through choice.
40m raids were not convenient, but only formed because there was NO other choice.

Now players have choice, look at the result.
Look how many gravitate towards 10m rather than 25m for a single reason, because it is easier to organise.
The player base is taking the route of least resistance, because they can.
Because they choose to.

I agree with you, OP. There'll be those who keep talking about rose-tinted glasses and those who will do anything to tell themselves this game's lifecycle has long past due, but those of us who were addicted back then, will know there was a certain quality that diminished once WotLK came about. Don't get me wrong, I liked WotLK, but it was no where near as cocaine-ish as BC/Van, and not because the game felt old. Northrend was new remember. Even if the older version of the game was horribly balanced and crappy on paper, it was still crappy on paper. It had magic to it and that wasn't because the game was new - 3-4 years old at the time.

That being said, I don't want the game to return to '07 or even '08 period. I'd like them to reinvent what the new addiction will be. LFR and convenience isn't it.