For us, watching the mind (thoughts) without getting involved with them, is not a form of self enquiry.

In Who Am I? (Nan Yar?) Bhagavan says:

Of all the thoughts that arise in the mind, the ‘I’ thought is the first. It is only after the rise of this that the other thoughts arise. It is after the appearance of the first personal pronoun that the second and third personal pronouns appear; without the first personal pronoun there will not be the second and third.

I believe Bhagavan is saying as I rises it creates the likes of the mine, you, he, she, it, them and their thoughts etc. We become those thoughts and so we cannot say we are not involved with them.

Watching the mind is only watching the thoughts, and then leave all thoughts and coming to the root I-thought. Here onlythe question Who am I? Whence am I? comes. Once this question is raised, the I-thought subsides and the mind/ego whichis the cause of I-thought, goes inward and merges with the Self.

Sir,my opinion as under.Now let me ask you some more questions:1. Why watch the mind ? //when we observe the thoughts without involvement , it seems to be some form of self abidance.2. What happens when one does not watch mind ?//carrying on with your usual routine either office work,home affairs ,entertainment ,reading etc.3. How long can one watch the mind ? For a stipulated period of time or continuously throughout the day ?// for some time only and only when we can be undisturbed.regards,Anand.

First of all you understand that there is no substance called mind. Mind is sushuma sariram. It is the I-thought that firstsprouts. It gives rise to many many thoughts, barrage of thoughts. Sri Bhagavan says Catch hold of this I-thought andproceed inward asking how this I-thought sprouted. This I thought is Ego. If ego is withdrawn into the Self, then there is no egoand only the Self.

2. One can also watch the thoughts. But it is more difficult than watching the I thought. Because the thoughts are huge innumber and they create more and more thoughts endlessly, like the ripples on water, when you throw a stone on water body.

3. You can carry on without watching the mind or thoughts. But that leads you no where, because the thoughts representobjective world and not the Self.

4. Watching the I thought (not the mind) can be done in fixed hours when you are free. But in due course with stern practice,you will be able to watch the I thought even in travel, work-stations etc.,

Dear Friends,While watching the thoughts , is something that can be empirically checked, it seems one form of self enquiry is shifting the attention from the the thoughts back to the one who is witnessing the thoughts.But the one who is witnessing cannot shift back attention to himself since then there will be two selves.Then how can this form of self enquiry to be empirically practised.Regards,Anand Sundaram.

Dear Friends,While watching the thoughts , is something that can be empirically checked, it seems one form of self enquiry is shifting the attention from the the thoughts back to the one who is witnessing the thoughts.But the one who is witnessing cannot shift back attention to himself since then there will be two selves.Then how can this form of self enquiry to be empirically practised.Regards,Anand Sundaram.

you have put so many questions here.

there are actually many selves , not two selves.

self enquiry is layer by layer Anand -- start from where you feel convinced.

nobody else can really convince you to your innermost Heart.

my experience i will share here>

this who am i question is really so much misinterpreted. all agree that it is not a mantra.

but beyond that, when to ask this question who am i -- people differ.

Michael James and David Godman -- both has written to only give importance to the sense of I that we feel at any given moment. Who Am I is to be used, only if so much thoughts come, then you start asking to whom this thought occurs, 'to me', then what is this I, who am I.

actually you can ignore this who am i question part and just shift attention to your inner subjective feeling of I..... James call it I attendting to itself.....David call it subjective inner sense or feeling of I.

in your case, you are starting with watching the mind

so now you are the watcher and thoughts are springing forth before you.......you first remain a watcher, play that watcher role more clearly.........sincerly become a watcher or witness

do this for some one week without worrying anything about self enquiry

once you get a hold on yourself as a watcher, then slowly feel yourself clearly without identification with 'watching' activty.....

somebody sitting in a roadside bench -- all cars move, first he was affected by the traffic, then watching takes place , he sincerely watches all cars and lorries for one week....only watching......he just disinterestedly watches the traffic.........

after one week, suddenly the watcher thinks to himself -- i have been sitting in this roadside watching all my thoughts..........slowly slowly watcher wants to know about himself, not about his thoughts....so now the watcher starts going into himself and wants to feel how it is if one just feels oneself.....the watcher gets the inner sens of I and a feeling of just existence.......

here you be careful anand -- here , dont imagine like who is watching this watcher & his 'feeling himself' act....

dont even go to that.......because who watches your act of self enquiry is beyond words....dont caught up there...you can never catch that supreme watcher.....dont even make that concept in your brain

all you have is a watcher and his thoughts for one week

suddenly after this one week watcher sitting in same roadside bench suddenly attens to himself and just feels his inner sense

dont ask then wat happens.....just try this way and proceed....bit like cycling.........