Oh fer hecks sake, of course it is not going to happen! Only religious nuts believe in that sort of stuff. "It will happen because god told me so". No he didn't, just because you read something in a book that is what you want to believe, you have convinced yourself it is true. But you are too prone to exaggeration and emotional rhetoric to try to get your point across to others.

If you feel it is your mission in life to educate and convert the world, why are you wasting your time here at Seti? Go on a lecture tour somewhere.

You can get the ingredients of another "Jesus" just by random circumstance. No Divine Intervention or inventions needed.

Does that count as being "born again"?

There are ideas and passions that transcend mere cloned bodies. More significant is what whatever body does. And then also, ideas can have a body and will of their own if known by (enough) people to be exercised and given life...

Keep searchin',
Martin

(Apologies for the backwards ID pun... Ouch! :-) )

Martin,
I don't know what that means?

You are "Martin ML1". I don't know you full name, and it doesn't matter. Martin if you have a brother called Billy, then Billy is Billy, and nobody else. If you have a sister called Mary. Mary is Mary and there will never be another Mary. You are "Martin ML1", and there will never ever ever be another "Martin ML1" no matter how many genetic combinations you go through. So Jesus is the same. There was one Jesus, and only one Jesus. You will never ever ever randomly get the same "Jesus" combination of DNA, ever!

Martin when you die, you will be born again. Or put another way, Martin you will be cloned after you die.

Oh fer hecks sake, of course it is not going to happen! Only religious nuts believe in that sort of stuff. "It will happen because god told me so". No he didn't, just because you read something in a book that is what you want to believe, you have convinced yourself it is true. But you are too prone to exaggeration and emotional rhetoric to try to get your point across to others.

If you feel it is your mission in life to educate and convert the world, why are you wasting your time here at Seti? Go on a lecture tour somewhere.

Chris,
My understanding of what you said there is that you don't think people can be cloned. Well Chris this is simple science. This is happening right now today with plants and animals. And it will happen with human beings. In a few years, people will go into their local grave yards with mechanical excavators and they will dig up their dead relatives and DNA samples will be taken, and their dead relatives will be cloned, and brought back to life!

This is a scientific certainty! Whether you believe it or not Chris is completely irrelevant, it will happen! You won't have any say in the matter.

... There was one Jesus, and only one Jesus. You will never ever ever randomly get the same "Jesus" combination of DNA, ever!

However, there are enough people across the world and across time that although you will not get an exact copy, you will very likely get someone who behaves and acts very similarly to the presumed "Jesus". No God needed for that.

Martin when you die, you will be born again. Or put another way, Martin you will be cloned after you die.

Even if fancifully so, would I know? Or rather, would the clone pick up my mental state and experiences from the moment that I had died?...

You can do that for computers and software. (Hence why I went into computer engineering: get it wrong and you can still hit reboot to get back to get it right. The wet squishy stuff has certain critical thresholds irreversibly leading to "game over"...)

So far however, we are a very long way away from being able to do that with squishy biological wet ware that has died and evaporated!

Martin when you die, you will be born again. Or put another way, Martin you will be cloned after you die.

Even if fancifully so, would I know? Or rather, would the clone pick up my mental state and experiences from the moment that I had died?...

No, if your cloned, your clone won't have any recollection of the past life. No more than you can remember any of the memories that were in your fathers head the day your father and mother slept together and created you.

But the cloned YOU, will be taught about the YOU that exists today. Using the Elvis example, the cloned Elvis will not remember his previous life. But people WILL teach him about his previous life. And the cloned Elvis can watch all the TV shows and films he made the first time around.

You can do that for computers and software. (Hence why I went into computer engineering: get it wrong and you can still hit reboot to get back to get it right. The wet squishy stuff has certain critical thresholds irreversibly leading to "game over"...)

So far however, we are a very long way away from being able to do that with squishy biological wet ware that has died and evaporated!

Keep searchin',
Martin

Martin we are NOT a long way off from it, wrong! Its about to happen in the next few years.

Martin "iPS cells" are the "key" to human cloning. In the press statement, the Nobel Prize press office don't use the words "Human cloning", and the scientists don't use the words "Human cloning" in their science papers. But thats what it is about! iPS cells allow you to "reset" the clock on any living cell back to the start. In effect, they can take a skin cell and turn it back into an embryonic stem cell, or an embryo. This means we could clone you just by scratching some skin off your finger and reseting the cell to make a brand new "Martin ML1".

This is real, its happening right now. Just most people don't read the latest edition of Nature Genetics or the Journal of Cell Biology.

woah didnt know there was a such discussion here. since i never never put a feet in here, in politics^^

i should have been very bored to have made that click ! haha

my believes : a tons of caracters in old texts decribe outsiders which arent from here, and everything, all desciptions are from people that werent used to see a modern world. i know.

but the problem about codes, there cant be any code after the first copy translated from the original language written by the old real owner of that text. and it s worst after thousands of translations based on the perception of the reader/translator.

yes we can read between the lines, but it s OUR perception of what it s written and whats its written between the lines ^^

9 billions of persons will have 9 billions of different perceptions. we are all unique.

yes i believe the gods and angels were unearthly, not coming from here, aliens.

clones:
everybody knows we arent only made of 'DNA' ! whats make an person, this person, it s everything that happended in all his life. all his DNA , yes! but also all his memories, all the events, all his thoughts, all the decisions he made, and all the decisions everybody made also all around him , all his life. a clone of a person cant be an exact clone of that person. unless all his history repeate itself every fractions of a seconds , all his life.

to do an exact clone you ll need the exact same clones of his mother, his father, his friends, his town, his world... and ... his same timeline. and even then you ll show him movies, and it will still be a stranger he is seeing. thats not 'him'.

you can make a new person with some base of DNA of an old person. but it will still be entirely a new person.

even if it would be possible...

it s not a question of 'been good' or 'been a bad person' when they say 'worthfully deserve to comeback' it would be a question of being an important person (and had cash in option^^)
a Jesus, a Moses, a Gandi, an Abraham Lincoln, a Coppernic, a Flemming... and also an Elvis, a Bill Gates, an Arabic petrol megalo...

and what the heck why would some 'gods' or 'aliens' would want to rez me ??
me who always been a bullet to the society ?

hell no.

9 billions of people multiplied by all our ascendances up to .... adam ? lol
even if there would be an earth somewhere as big as 100x Jupiter.... we would be like little fishes in a little can ^^
a can of sardines

conclusion:
- yeah probably we have been made by some aliens.
- no there is any 'code' in any copy made then after the original text/book well preserve and which has been written by the original alien who made it.
- yes you can make a new entity from old DNA but still not a clone.
- and no i wont be ressurected after my death. ^^
____________

conclusion:
- yeah probably we have been made by some aliens.
- no there is any 'code' in any copy made then after the original text/book well preserve and which has been written by the original alien who made it.
- yes you can make a new entity from old DNA but still not a clone.
- and no i wont be ressurected after my death. ^^

Michel,
You made some really good points there!

Yes, when you clone someone, its effectively a brand new baby. And just like any new baby, it starts from scratch and learns the alphabet, goes to school, and learns everything from scratch. You are correct, this does give the cloned person a brand new personality from the first guy. So the clone most definitely will be different. BUT!! You can "teach" the cloned person about their first life.

conclusion:
- yeah probably we have been made by some aliens.
- no there is any 'code' in any copy made then after the original text/book well preserve and which has been written by the original alien who made it.
- yes you can make a new entity from old DNA but still not a clone.
- and no i wont be ressurected after my death. ^^

Michel,
You made some really good points there!

Yes, when you clone someone, its effectively a brand new baby. And just like any new baby, it starts from scratch and learns the alphabet, goes to school, and learns everything from scratch. You are correct, this does give the cloned person a brand new personality from the first guy. So the clone most definitely will be different. BUT!! You can "teach" the cloned person about their first life.

John.

Which is quite a long way from:

In a few years, people will go into their local grave yards with mechanical excavators and they will dig up their dead relatives and DNA samples will be taken, and their dead relatives will be cloned, and brought back to life!

Why bother with the digger? To get a physical likeness?
____________
I think you'll find it's a bit more complicated than that ...

That has always been postulated Robert, that if there were ET visitations in the past then apart from the locals trying to record that for posterity, you would think that they would leave some sort of message that would only be found when that society was sufficiently advanced to recognise it.

The old favourite was a marker of the far side of the moon which wouldn't be found until an unmanned probe went by at the earliest. Haven't found one yet. Parking something at one of the Le Grange points L1 or L2 is another, but we would have found that by now. Ancient stone buildings really don't cut it, nor do religious books, or Kilroy was 'ere type of stuff.

So what would they likely have left as a message, and one that apparently we haven't found yet?

Chris,
Why are the 150 Pyramids down in Egypt not proof that someone was here in the past doing something suspicious?

Remember Chris, no Pharaoh was ever found in a pyramid, so they don't know what the pyramids were built for, yet! ALL the Pharaohs were buried in the valley of the Kings, and carefully "preserved" so at a future date, DNA samples could be extracted and they could be cloned and brought back to life. The Pharaohs WILL live again. And when we clone the Pharaohs, people will revere them and treat them like Kings. They will be Kings again, and they will rule Egypt again!

THE PROOF IS RIGHT IN FRONT OF YOU, if you just wake up and open your eyes!

John.

Really? Are you saying Tut was not found? Are you saying Tut was found outside his pyramid?
And you claimed before that no pyramid was entered before 1900, yet others say that they'd be looted for centuries, and Jedifray's was looted perhaps the most, when Romans actually took it apart, largely, stone by stone, to use the stones for other purposes.

Oh fer hecks sake, of course it is not going to happen! Only religious nuts believe in that sort of stuff. "It will happen because god told me so". No he didn't, just because you read something in a book that is what you want to believe, you have convinced yourself it is true. But you are too prone to exaggeration and emotional rhetoric to try to get your point across to others.

If you feel it is your mission in life to educate and convert the world, why are you wasting your time here at Seti? Go on a lecture tour somewhere.

Chris,
My understanding of what you said there is that you don't think people can be cloned.

That has always been postulated Robert, that if there were ET visitations in the past then apart from the locals trying to record that for posterity, you would think that they would leave some sort of message that would only be found when that society was sufficiently advanced to recognise it.

The old favourite was a marker of the far side of the moon which wouldn't be found until an unmanned probe went by at the earliest. Haven't found one yet. Parking something at one of the Le Grange points L1 or L2 is another, but we would have found that by now. Ancient stone buildings really don't cut it, nor do religious books, or Kilroy was 'ere type of stuff.

So what would they likely have left as a message, and one that apparently we haven't found yet?

Chris,
Why are the 150 Pyramids down in Egypt not proof that someone was here in the past doing something suspicious?

Remember Chris, no Pharaoh was ever found in a pyramid, so they don't know what the pyramids were built for, yet! ALL the Pharaohs were buried in the valley of the Kings, and carefully "preserved" so at a future date, DNA samples could be extracted and they could be cloned and brought back to life. The Pharaohs WILL live again. And when we clone the Pharaohs, people will revere them and treat them like Kings. They will be Kings again, and they will rule Egypt again!

THE PROOF IS RIGHT IN FRONT OF YOU, if you just wake up and open your eyes!

John.

Really? Are you saying Tut was not found? Are you saying Tut was found outside his pyramid?
And you claimed before that no pyramid was entered before 1900, yet others say that they'd be looted for centuries, and Jedifray's was looted perhaps the most, when Romans actually took it apart, largely, stone by stone, to use the stones for other purposes.

Sarge,
What are you talking about? I never said king tut was not found.

I said the Pharaohs, including king tut were all burried in the valley of the kings, which is where king tut was found. King Tut was not burried in a pyramid.

And no, i never claimed that nobody entered the pyramids before 1900. Don't know where you got that from. Are you confusing me with some other post your read?

I have always said that I know that it is currently possible in Labs for animals to be cloned using DNA. If not already now, then certainly in the nest 2 years it will be possible to clone human beings. But that doesn't necessarily mean that we will do it just because we can. There are too many ethical issues against it.

Oh fer hecks sake, of course it is not going to happen!

That was my response to statements like these

In a few years, people will go into their local grave yards with mechanical excavators and they will dig up their dead relatives and DNA samples will be taken, and their dead relatives will be cloned, and brought back to life!

The Pharaohs WILL live again. And when we clone the Pharaohs, people will revere them and treat them like Kings. They will be Kings again, and they will rule Egypt again!

Is it likely that any local authority in the Western world would stand by and let the general public loose in a municipal cemetery with mechanical equipment to dig up their grandparents? Is it likely that the Egyptian authorities would be interested in cloning some person from centuries ago and revere them as some long forgotten King? That is just fanciful thinking, daydreaming, and quite frankly someone who has too much time on their hands.

The bible and other scriptures apparently give a description of the last days of the world. "Nation shall wage war upon Nation, there will be floods and droughts and pestilences" etc etc. When you look at the last 50 years, there is an increase in wars, floods, droughts, tornadoes, tsunamis, earthquakes, cancers etc. How much of this is a natural earth cycle or just modern global reporting?

When there is a world recession and no-one can see a way ahead, it is not unusual to turn to religion for answers to the situation. And what do the religions say? There is a god, he has given you rules to live by. Those who do will be rewarded with an everlasting life, those who don't will be condemned to hell etc. Religion says that at the end of the world, the sea and the earth shall give up their dead, and they will be judged according to their deeds.

That mainly that was a threat to make sure that people adhered to the religious doctrines and kept the priests in business. Has anybody ever worked out how many trillion trillion people have lived, died, and drowned since the earth began? And all theses will be resurrected and judged?

But the issue of resurrection to live again is fundamental to most religions, so where did the idea come from? Thousands of years ago man didn't know what DNA and cloning was, but we do now. So it is tempting to think that maybe, just maybe, this resurrection promise bit was given to man by those more scientifically advanced. Or it could just be that too many people read to much into the Bible, with some knowledge of modern techniques. I think that Dolly the sheep had more sense than some people.

I do agree with Johnney and think that there is enough evidence to give some credence to the possibility that ET was here in the past. I think that maybe the last time was about 11,000-14,000 BC and maybe millions of years before that as well. Apparently there are genuine ribbed sole imprints in coal seams millions of years old. But most certainly they were not here 4004BC genetically engineering mankind.

Johnney asserts that Einstein was completely wrong and that he knows better. He says that black holes don't exist. He says there is no such thing as dark matter. He says that he has researched all this, teaching himself, without a basic uni degree or a PhD, and that scientists are making fundamental mistakes. How likely is it that some non-scientist guy from rural Ireland can be right and the whole of the rest of the world be wrong?

There is interesting stuff in the Bible, some of it is truth, some of it fiction, some just legends, some of it needs converting into modern day language. But it needs to be taken into a realistic context with modern day life.

This is real, its happening right now.

No it isn't. It might be the result of a once off experiment in some Lab somewhere. It is NOT happening on a global scale all over the world every day. That is your own personal interpretation upon it.

Its about to happen in the next few years.

1? 5? 20? 50? You can't or won't give an answer because you don't know yourself.

You clearly have a thinking brain within your head but it is running round in circles and not making much sense to the rest of us. So, Johnney, where else have you postulated your ideas and prophecies? Just only in Seti Politics, where you know it is basically anonymous and there is no real life comeback. Or stood on a street corner proclaiming the end of the world is nigh? Written to the local paper etc etc ?

So what is it?

You drink too much Guinness?
You are a religious zealot?
You are an eccentric?
You are in need of counseling?

I do agree with Johnney and think that there is enough evidence to give some credence to the possibility that ET was here in the past. I think that maybe the last time was about 11,000-14,000 BC and maybe millions of years before that as well. Apparently there are genuine ribbed sole imprints in coal seams millions of years old. But most certainly they were not here 4004BC genetically engineering mankind.

Those sole imprints have been thoroughly debunked and regarded as hoaxes or simply bad archaeology.

Johnney asserts that Einstein was completely wrong and that he knows better. He says that black holes don't exist. He says there is no such thing as dark matter. He says that he has researched all this, teaching himself, without a basic uni degree or a PhD, and that scientists are making fundamental mistakes. How likely is it that some non-scientist guy from rural Ireland can be right and the whole of the rest of the world be wrong?

Well, because he sez so! He doesn't have to provide evidence for his claims because God told him so! Millions of sophisticated, intelligent people are wrong because Johnney has it all figured out, and he'll reveal it in the next few years.

All you have to do is just tell everyone that what they think they know is wrong, and repeat it several times until you've convinced even yourself that you have it right. Eventually the gullible and naive will follow.

Its about to happen in the next few years.

1? 5? 20? 50? You can't or won't give an answer because you don't know yourself.

You clearly have a thinking brain within your head but it is running round in circles and not making much sense to the rest of us. So, Johnney, where else have you postulated your ideas and prophecies? Just only in Seti Politics, where you know it is basically anonymous and there is no real life comeback. Or stood on a street corner proclaiming the end of the world is nigh? Written to the local paper etc etc ?

No, he's tried to get published in official rags. He's not the first loon that's tried to get their religion - I mean scientific findings published in a scientific rag. Those elitist scientists rejected his work because he doesn't show a measurable expertise in his field of study, of which he claims he has, and why would he lie? Certainly he's not allowed himself to be misled!

So what is it?

You drink too much Guinness?
You are a religious zealot?
You are an eccentric?
You are in need of counseling?

I said the Pharaohs, including king tut were all burried in the valley of the kings, which is where king tut was found. King Tut was not burried in a pyramid.

And no, i never claimed that nobody entered the pyramids before 1900. Don't know where you got that from. Are you confusing me with some other post your read?

John.

Are you adding archaeology to the list of subjects that you profess to have a deep understanding? During what era(s) were the pyramids built? During what era(s) were Pharaohs entombed in the Valley of the Kings?
____________
I think you'll find it's a bit more complicated than that ...

Johnney asserts that Einstein was completely wrong and that he knows better. He says that black holes don't exist. He says there is no such thing as dark matter. He says that he has researched all this, teaching himself, without a basic uni degree or a PhD, and that scientists are making fundamental mistakes. How likely is it that some non-scientist guy from rural Ireland can be right and the whole of the rest of the world be wrong?

Chris,
I enjoyed reading that post. I will read it again because it was good. I might read it a few times. Its nice to get some real prospective on the way you think! I cant reply to all the points or i would be writing all day.

Chris that paragraph above, i'm just singling that one out.

Its funny Chris, it does seem really really unlikely that some very ordinary guy you met on an alien hunting forum would have made the discoveries i claim to have made. Doesn't it? It sounds like complete madness? To such an extent, the only reasonable conclusion you could draw is that Johnney Guinness is a bit of a lunatic. If Johnney Guinness is a lunatic, then everything makes sense! You could put the whole lots down to madness!

Think about it;
1. I claim to have an "old book" or "old books" written by the hand of God himself.
2. I claim to have solved ALL of the unsolved problems in physics and astronomy in one fowl swoop.

But!! there is something i have not discussed here before that explains all this;

Its possible, but i have no proof yet, that someone, or something, "external" to me is influencing the way i think. Its possible "someone" is "giving" me this information. But i have no proof of this. Its just a feeling. I feel like i am be influenced by someone that i cannot see. Someone is "guiding me" to find the right answers as i do the research. Its either that, or i'm very very clever. And i think i'm pretty average intelligence.

Its possible, but i have no proof yet, that someone, or something, "external" to me is influencing the way i think. Its possible "someone" is "giving" me this information. But i have no proof of this. Its just a feeling. I feel like i am be influenced by someone that i cannot see. Someone is "guiding me" to find the right answers as i do the research. Its either that, or i'm very very clever. And i think i'm pretty average intelligence.

Yes, that something is called confirmation bias. You've researched what you want to know by making the data fit your conclusions.

Based upon your preachings and your assertions, I see little difference between you and Harold Camping, other than you've thrown in a bit of alien conspiracy too.