You guys walk in and raid little pools of existing users and "steal" part of their profits.

Uhm no...

Whoever is stupid enough to mine 24/7 in a proportional pool deserves it. AND whoever sets up a proportional pool also deserves being hopped. There are at least 2 guaranteed safe hopping proof payout methods out there with 0 risk for the operator and other miners and the same or similar variance for miners.

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You guys walk in and raid little pools of existing users and "steal" part of their profits.

Uhm no...

Whoever is stupid enough to mine 24/7 in a proportional pool deserves it. AND whoever sets up a proportional pool also deserves being hopped. There are at least 2 guaranteed safe hopping proof payout methods out there with 0 risk for the operator and other miners and the same or similar variance for miners.

+1. Bithopper was set up in order to help these proportional pools wise up to the fact and switch over to fairer methods. Before proxy's like Bithopper were publicly available hopping still occurred, just the people who were doing it weren't telling you.

We're actually helping the bitcoin community over here... Hopping is helping shall we say!

You guys walk in and raid little pools of existing users and "steal" part of their profits.

Uhm no...

Whoever is stupid enough to mine 24/7 in a proportional pool deserves it. AND whoever sets up a proportional pool also deserves being hopped. There are at least 2 guaranteed safe hopping proof payout methods out there with 0 risk for the operator and other miners and the same or similar variance for miners.

Look! There are people out in the streets without any guns. They are stupid to run around 24/7 without protection, they deserve to be robbed.

You guys walk in and raid little pools of existing users and "steal" part of their profits.

Uhm no...

Whoever is stupid enough to mine 24/7 in a proportional pool deserves it. AND whoever sets up a proportional pool also deserves being hopped. There are at least 2 guaranteed safe hopping proof payout methods out there with 0 risk for the operator and other miners and the same or similar variance for miners.

+1. Bithopper was set up in order to help these proportional pools wise up to the fact and switch over to fairer methods. Before proxy's like Bithopper were publicly available hopping still occurred, just the people who were doing it weren't telling you.

We're actually helping the bitcoin community over here... Hopping is helping shall we say!

It is quite different to have a few smart people figure out ways to gain the system compared to a publicly available refined tool which enables a large part of the community to "help pools switch over to fairer methods".

It is quite different to have a few smart people figure out ways to gain the system compared to a publicly available refined tool which enables a large part of the community to "help pools switch over to fairer methods".

There was very noticeable amount of hopping miners for pretty long time now, they were clearly seen on eligus graph weeks ago.And i wouldn't call this tool "refined" in any sense except maybe it doesn't crash.

Look! There are people out in the streets without any guns. They are stupid to run around 24/7 without protection, they deserve to be robbed.

If you think a gun protects you, you might also mine proportionally!

The publicly available refined tool which enables a large part of the community to "help pools switch over to fairer methods" already exists in the form of hopping-proof payout algorithms. For about half a year now. If (new!) pools like triplemining choose to still proportional payouts, this is knowing that it's users can and will be exploited (some even write this on their main page).

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Look! There are people out in the streets without any guns. They are stupid to run around 24/7 without protection, they deserve to be robbed.

Um not even the same. Look what if I took Us dollars and traded them for various currencies around the world and then back into dollars and got a proffit. You held onto your dollars 24/7 and are pissed I made money off mine.

Quote

It is quite different to have a few smart people figure out ways to gain the system compared to a publicly available refined tool which enables a large part of the community to "help pools switch over to fairer methods".

not really, you are just upset at scale. If you consider it cheating than it is cheating weather one does it or 20. It doesnt matter if only a few smart people do it, it is still cheating. Pool operators dont give a shit, it doesnt hurt them. So nothing will change unless you actually let people understand this is going on.

Plus I find it hard to think of it as cheating when their isnt even the slightest of obstacles to get around. Not even a user agreement that says I cant do this. Kinda hard to claim I am breaking the rules when you cant even point to the rule I broke.

What If i found a way to edit the miner software and add say 3% of speed.. none of you have that speed increase.. would that be cheating? Shouldnt we all be forced to use the same mining software?

Plus I find it hard to think of it as cheating when their isnt even the slightest of obstacles to get around. Not even a user agreement that says I cant do this. Kinda hard to claim I am breaking the rules when you cant even point to the rule I broke.

What If i found a way to edit the miner software and add say 3% of speed.. none of you have that speed increase.. would that be cheating? Shouldnt we all be forced to use the same mining software?

It is quite different to have a few smart people figure out ways to gain the system compared to a publicly available refined tool which enables a large part of the community to "help pools switch over to fairer methods".

Well think about this then...

One "smart" person has 500+ GH/s at their disposal and uses their own coded pool hopper. Then 500 1GH/s "average Joe's" turn up and start pool hopping using Bithopper.

IMO that one "smart" person is doing more damage. At least with Bithopper the pools know it is happening > their users know it is happening > users get angry at pools for letting it happen > pools take appropriate measures to stop it from happening.

Look! There are people out in the streets without any guns. They are stupid to run around 24/7 without protection, they deserve to be robbed.

If you think a gun protects you, you might also mine proportionally!

The publicly available refined tool which enables a large part of the community to "help pools switch over to fairer methods" already exists in the form of hopping-proof payout algorithms. For about half a year now. If (new!) pools like triplemining choose to still proportional payouts, this is knowing that it's users can and will be exploited (some even write this on their main page).

People dont seem to be able to grasp the hopping-proof payout structure - new pools are forced to offer the traditional system. Large enough pools can switch but might as well lose user.

Look! There are people out in the streets without any guns. They are stupid to run around 24/7 without protection, they deserve to be robbed.

Um not even the same. Look what if I took Us dollars and traded them for various currencies around the world and then back into dollars and got a proffit. You held onto your dollars 24/7 and are pissed I made money off mine.

Quote

It is quite different to have a few smart people figure out ways to gain the system compared to a publicly available refined tool which enables a large part of the community to "help pools switch over to fairer methods".

not really, you are just upset at scale. If you consider it cheating than it is cheating weather one does it or 20. It doesnt matter if only a few smart people do it, it is still cheating. Pool operators dont give a shit, it doesnt hurt them. So nothing will change unless you actually let people understand this is going on.

Plus I find it hard to think of it as cheating when their isnt even the slightest of obstacles to get around. Not even a user agreement that says I cant do this. Kinda hard to claim I am breaking the rules when you cant even point to the rule I broke.

What If i found a way to edit the miner software and add say 3% of speed.. none of you have that speed increase.. would that be cheating? Shouldnt we all be forced to use the same mining software?

If you trade your dollars you also take a risk, i am fine with that.

I am upset about the fact that i am forced to either gain the system like you guys or switch to another pool with hopping measures in place.

If you find a way to increase the speed you could use it yourself and have little impact at all, sell it (again, little impact) or release it for free which wouldnt hurt anybody - word spreads fast and people would upgrade to your miner.

It is quite different to have a few smart people figure out ways to gain the system compared to a publicly available refined tool which enables a large part of the community to "help pools switch over to fairer methods".

Well think about this then...

One "smart" person has 500+ GH/s at their disposal and uses their own coded pool hopper. Then 500 1GH/s "average Joe's" turn up and start pool hopping using Bithopper.

IMO that one "smart" person is doing more damage. At least with Bithopper the pools know it is happening > their users know it is happening > users get angry at pools for letting it happen > pools take appropriate measures to stop it from happening.

Hopping is helping

There is nobody with 500+ GH/s at their disposal. Most of the userbase consist of little hashing power/user.

I am upset about the fact that i am forced to either gain the system like you guys or switch to another pool with hopping measures in place.

If you find a way to increase the speed you could use it yourself and have little impact at all, sell it (again, little impact) or release it for free which wouldnt hurt anybody - word spreads fast and people would upgrade to your miner.

You would (if all other adopt this) increase the hash rate worldwide by 3%, thus you'd earn less than if you kept the tweak to yourself.

Pool hopping also has a risk of earning less in the short run (on long rounds you loose), pools switching payout systems, pool operators plainly stealing from you (which is REALLY easy by the way, look it up in the pools forum) etc.

If users are too stupid to be able to get a system like PPLNS (which is 100% like proportional, only that the definition of "round" doesn't start when a new block is found) or SMPPS (which is in the longer run just like PPS) then they also shouldn't complain if someone is smart enough to not mine full time in their pool if it pays off less and less over time.

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I am upset about the fact that i am forced to either gain the system like you guys or switch to another pool with hopping measures in place.

If you find a way to increase the speed you could use it yourself and have little impact at all, sell it (again, little impact) or release it for free which wouldnt hurt anybody - word spreads fast and people would upgrade to your miner.

You would (if all other adopt this) increase the hash rate worldwide by 3%, thus you'd earn less than if you kept the tweak to yourself.

Pool hopping also has a risk of earning less in the short run (on long rounds you loose), pools switching payout systems, pool operators plainly stealing from you (which is REALLY easy by the way, look it up in the pools forum) etc.

If users are too stupid to be able to get a system like PPLNS (which is 100% like proportional, only that the definition of "round" doesn't start when a new block is found) or SMPPS (which is in the longer run just like PPS) then they also shouldn't complain if someone is smart enough to not mine full time in their pool if it pays off less and less over time.

1. Yep without bithopper Im getting ~0.5% stales on btcguild, with bithopper it average out at 8% stales.

2. Im using the latest version , the hopping happens quite often then resets to proper lowest shares pool after ~2mins

...In the land of the stale, the man with one share is king... >> Clipse

Weird... ozco.in reports 446976 shares but I seem to mine at eligius sometimes.

Also nothing was yet written to my stats file, maybe try to flush the writes every once in a while - or maybe I did something wrong...Edit: no, just kill it with Ctrl+c and the stats magically appear. Seems like the writes don't get flushed to me.

https://bitfinex.com <-- leveraged trading of BTCUSD, LTCUSD and LTCBTC (long and short) - 10% discount on fees for the first 30 days with this refcode: x5K9YtL3ZbMail me at Bitmessage: BM-BbiHiVv5qh858ULsyRDtpRrG9WjXN3xf