Battle Royale: Chicago vs. Columbia vs. NYU

It matters alot; just as the job placement gets better as you move to the high ranked schools, the exit options are that much better from the best firms compared to the 2nd tier. Even if you eventually want to practice in a more "normal" firm, you want to start out at the best firm you can to maximize your eventual options.

Again, I approach this problem with the perspective of my dad, who's a transactional lawyer at a V20 firm...I'm using his information as to what laterals his firm picks up, what schools they can hire from, and what his friends at other firms think of the hiring process, as guidance to figure out what jobs put you on the track to have a successful career. Your ambition may vary; adjust accordingly.

So is this a long winded thread saying if you want to do public interest go to NYU? I'm seriously considering Columbia but am pretty dead set on human rights law, especially internationally in Africa. Would it be a mistake to pick Columbia over NYU if this is one's goal?

I haven't read this thread in its totality, but I just saw this. I actually think Columbia is better for human rights law. The faculty who do human rights are better at Columbia and you are connected to a university that has way better programs over all. Between SIPA, the Earth Institute, and the Business School, there is just a lot more going on at Columbia connected to international human rights and economic development. Columbia also has massive hook-ups with the UN. If you want to work in Africa, and you are deciding between Columbia and NYU, you should almost definitely go to Columbia.

Thanks so much for this post. You actually hit the nail on the head. I would love to work with the UN. And while I wouldn't be directly involved probably, the Earth Institute and particularly Jeffrey Sachs being at Columbia is a huge draw. He's pretty much my hero.

If you want to do international HR work, Columbia is probably a safer bet. However, the Brennan Center at NYU should not be overlooked. Both schools are great for public interest.

Outside of public interest, however, the real choice is between CLS and Chicago.

It matters alot; just as the job placement gets better as you move to the high ranked schools, the exit options are that much better from the best firms compared to the 2nd tier. Even if you eventually want to practice in a more "normal" firm, you want to start out at the best firm you can to maximize your eventual options.

Again, I approach this problem with the perspective of my dad, who's a transactional lawyer at a V20 firm...I'm using his information as to what laterals his firm picks up, what schools they can hire from, and what his friends at other firms think of the hiring process, as guidance to figure out what jobs put you on the track to have a successful career. Your ambition may vary; adjust accordingly.

... wrong. Law firm rankings are nothing like law school rankings. You have tons of great options from what you call a "second tier" firm.

So the correct answer is : The differences are very small. Go where you feel most comfortable.

I would take the exact opposite conclusion: The differences b/w NYU and C-C is significant, since it's as big as the diff b/w C-C and H-S. The diff b/w C-C is statistically insignificant. The diff b/w Y and H-S is huge. The diff b/w M-V and N (let alone C-C) is huge. Penn is halfway b/w NYU and M-V.

This is completely made up. chicago is closer to penn than it is to nyu/columbia in us news points. and they are practically the same in the ciolli study.

It matters alot; just as the job placement gets better as you move to the high ranked schools, the exit options are that much better from the best firms compared to the 2nd tier. Even if you eventually want to practice in a more "normal" firm, you want to start out at the best firm you can to maximize your eventual options.

Again, I approach this problem with the perspective of my dad, who's a transactional lawyer at a V20 firm...I'm using his information as to what laterals his firm picks up, what schools they can hire from, and what his friends at other firms think of the hiring process, as guidance to figure out what jobs put you on the track to have a successful career. Your ambition may vary; adjust accordingly.

there are some pretty bad and very unselective firms in the top 20 on vault. the vault list is nothing more than a ranking of M&A practices and has nothing to do with selectivity or even compensation.

anyway it doesn't make sense to go on what one lawyer says even if he is your dad vs. a quantitative, published study like the ciolli study.

also, if you were at a decent firm anywhere and you are now in the lateral market, practically any firm will take you. firms are all fighting over the same 20 midlevel laterals. hence the recent raise.

So the correct answer is : The differences are very small. Go where you feel most comfortable.

I would take the exact opposite conclusion: The differences b/w NYU and C-C is significant, since it's as big as the diff b/w C-C and H-S. The diff b/w C-C is statistically insignificant. The diff b/w Y and H-S is huge. The diff b/w M-V and N (let alone C-C) is huge. Penn is halfway b/w NYU and M-V.

You actually believe this? Significant for what? Your first job? Being able to sleep restfully in your oversized chambray shirt? Anybody who buys into these 'huge differences' is a shill of the first order. I know this may come as a surprise to some 22-year old 0Ls, but you actually do have to have a legal career after you've finished law school.

You're assuming that your law school doesn't matter to your legal career. That assumption is wrong.

So the correct answer is : The differences are very small. Go where you feel most comfortable.

I would take the exact opposite conclusion: The differences b/w NYU and C-C is significant, since it's as big as the diff b/w C-C and H-S. The diff b/w C-C is statistically insignificant. The diff b/w Y and H-S is huge. The diff b/w M-V and N (let alone C-C) is huge. Penn is halfway b/w NYU and M-V.

You actually believe this? Significant for what? Your first job? Being able to sleep restfully in your oversized chambray shirt? Anybody who buys into these 'huge differences' is a shill of the first order. I know this may come as a surprise to some 22-year old 0Ls, but you actually do have to have a legal career after you've finished law school.

I'm going to disprove this by starting and finishing law school, marrying another lawyer right afterward, and not having a legal career or a career of any sort whatsoever.

So the correct answer is : The differences are very small. Go where you feel most comfortable.

I would take the exact opposite conclusion: The differences b/w NYU and C-C is significant, since it's as big as the diff b/w C-C and H-S. The diff b/w C-C is statistically insignificant. The diff b/w Y and H-S is huge. The diff b/w M-V and N (let alone C-C) is huge. Penn is halfway b/w NYU and M-V.

You actually believe this? Significant for what? Your first job? Being able to sleep restfully in your oversized chambray shirt? Anybody who buys into these 'huge differences' is a shill of the first order. I know this may come as a surprise to some 22-year old 0Ls, but you actually do have to have a legal career after you've finished law school.

I'm going to disprove this by starting and finishing law school, marrying another lawyer right afterward, and not having a legal career or a career of any sort whatsoever.

So the correct answer is : The differences are very small. Go where you feel most comfortable.

I would take the exact opposite conclusion: The differences b/w NYU and C-C is significant, since it's as big as the diff b/w C-C and H-S. The diff b/w C-C is statistically insignificant. The diff b/w Y and H-S is huge. The diff b/w M-V and N (let alone C-C) is huge. Penn is halfway b/w NYU and M-V.

You actually believe this? Significant for what? Your first job? Being able to sleep restfully in your oversized chambray shirt? Anybody who buys into these 'huge differences' is a shill of the first order. I know this may come as a surprise to some 22-year old 0Ls, but you actually do have to have a legal career after you've finished law school.

You're assuming that your law school doesn't matter to your legal career. That assumption is wrong.

No, I'm assuming it doesn't matter nearly as much as most of the neurotics on this board seem to think it does.

Where you go to school matters, and it matters a lot on a macro level. As between schools within CCN or within HYS, it doesn't matter all that much at all unless you're a total prestige whore. So in that sense, I guess I agree with hollowman.