I am a 44 year old physician in Toronto. In May my wife of 21 years told me she had been flirting with the father of one of my daughter's school mates online and she wanted to have an open relationship so that she could take their romance to the next level.

I told her I could not handle an open relationship. My "lines in the sand" were no contact (NC) and that we seek marital counselling. I told her that if she could not agree to these two conditions then our marriage would be over. She agreed to both of these conditions. In Jun, I discovered several emails arranging a sexual liaison with the same guy at my in my in-laws apartment (my in-laws are away for the summer). I also realized that even back in May (when she said they had been flirting) they had already been kissing and meeting him for "dates".

She lied to both the marital counselor and me about the ongoing contact and the level of physical contact. My WS tells me the liaison at my in-laws condo was arranged but never occurred. With all the other lies, I am obviously skeptical. I have booked myself for HIV and other STD testing.

We have separated. On the advice of the counselor, we now each live in the house 50% of the time with the kids and then whoever is not in the house lives in the in-laws condo. I have agreed to continue to see the counselor. I have made it clear that I am there mostly there because I know that for the sake of the kids she and I need to communicate and right now the only place we can do that without escalation is in the counselor's office. I also know that it is a good idea for both of us to better understand what we both did to lead us into this appalling situation.

I am getting pressure from my WS, the counselor and from my in-laws to consider reconciliation. I am not sure I am ready to even look at that and I need advice on how to handle this pressure.

I am also getting pressure (from my WS, the counselor and from my in-laws) not to contact the OP and the OP's wife. Part of me feels like the OP's wife deserves to know and I am looking for advice on that too.

I am also struggling to parent the kids 50% of the time (I work about 60 hours a week whereas my wife is currently a stay-at-home mom and in the past has only worked P/T (about 20h per week). Any advice on this would also be appreciated.

The OP's wife deserves to know because it is the decent thing to do. Forget what the MC tells you.
You would want the same courtesy and decency. That will probably also kill the affair and give the OM something to do other than chase your wife.

As far as your appalling situation, you did the exact right thing, which is tell your wife there is no open marriage while you are part of it and you have no intention of sharing her. Then the choice is hers. She can be in an open marriage in a status called "divorced".

if you decide to R, there a bunch of things you need to do and the people here will tell you all that for free. But right now, as long as she is talking open marriage, you need to stand your ground unless you agree to it.

[This message edited by Badhurt at 9:59 PM, July 21st (Monday)]

Posts: 1097 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: Eastern USA

MC_Jack♂ 35016Member # 35016

Posted: 10:06 PM, July 21st (Monday), 2014

Hi TG,

I will help you with some of the questions:

good idea for both of us to better understand what we both did to lead us into this appalling situation.

^^^You: nothing, except of course maybe saying no to an open relationship. You are not to blame for her cheating. I hope your counselor can focus on the cheating first before dealing with the marriage.

I am getting pressure from my WS, the counselor and from my in-laws to consider reconciliation. I am not sure I am ready to even look at that and I need advice on how to handle this pressure.

^^^Tell them that you first need answers and personal accountability for the affair from your WW without blaming you or the marriage.

Part of me feels like the OP's wife deserves to know and I am looking for advice on that too.

^^^ Yes you are 100% correct. Do the right thing and let her know. AND JUST DO IT. Please do not tell your WW, etc. or the AP will be warned and you will be painted as a crazy person. Just get the job done.

I am not a marriage counselor. I chose "MC Jack" because I like the Music City. I did not know what MC stood for on this site. Duh.

Posts: 937 | Registered: Mar 2012 | From: Mountain West

somanyyears♂ 26970Member # 26970

Posted: 10:12 PM, July 21st (Monday), 2014

..first, sorry you are here..

..you are at the start of a long journey, the emotional roller coaster and the learning process of your life never being the same again!

..read from the Healing Library (yellow box to the far left.

..read and post often with your questions and feel free to vent your feelings ..it can help to blow off some steam!

take care of yourself, see your doc if meds are needed ie. sleep aids... but you'd know about that.

smy

[This message edited by somanyyears at 10:13 PM, July 21st (Monday)]

trust no other human- love only your pets
She isn't and never was who I thought..I can't believe who I married and what she did to us.
Me 67
Her 63
Married 42 yrs (together 47)
18 yr LTA with bff/lawyer !!

Posts: 4198 | Registered: Dec 2009 | From: the sad state of affairs

LifeIsBroken♀ 27071Member # 27071

Posted: 10:18 PM, July 21st (Monday), 2014

TorontoGuy: First, sorry you are here. Second, DO tell the OM's wife. She deserves to know. Most everyone on this site would advise you to out the affair; removing the secrecy often removes some of the "magic" of the A. I wish someone had told me. Third: Don't let anyone pressure you into doing anything. This time around, YOU get to choose to do what's best for you. Rather than marriage counseling, or in conjunction with it, you might do yourself a favor to talk with a counselor of your own. It could help you sort out some of your feelings and help you determine what YOU want & need going forward. Your working 60 hours per week TO SUPPORT YOUR WIFE AND CHILDREN may have taken time away from your family but that's not the reason your WS had an affair. She CHOSE to have an affair. It had nothing to do with you; it had everything to do with her…. So STOP blaming yourself for the affair. You didn't 'drive her to it,' she drove herself.

"What I am is all that really matters now that lies are gone" - Rob Halford

DDay - June 7, 2014
Me - 43
WW - 41
DD - 6 and 3
Pulling the Plug

Posts: 583 | Registered: Jun 2014 | From: Ontario

Not.the.Big.Easy♂ 2569Member # 2569

Posted: 11:35 PM, July 21st (Monday), 2014

It's been a very long time since I've been here. Recent events have brought me back.

I'll just start by saying I'm sorry you have made your way here. In my experience it's a horrible gift that keeps giving. Please, please remember, you did NOTHING to lead her to her affair. While you are 50% responsible for your marriage, she is 100% responsible for her affair. You said no when she suggested the open relationship and she agreed to the NC and counseling. The affair is all on her.

I would agree with the others that suggested you get your own counselor for therapy. It will help you keep a little bit more sane. I understand the pressure from the WS and the in-laws for reconciliation, but the counselor should not be pressuring you. The counselor is there to be a neutral mediator, guide the discussion, and keep you from doing something stupid, not decide you need to go back, or give someone the information they need to decide for themselves.

I wouldn't recommend contacting the OP. He is not interested in your well-being and may seek to say things to hurt or provoke you. Maybe eventually, when this is not so new and hyper-emotional, but definitely not now. About the OP's wife, my soul says she deserves to know too, but you can't do it vindictively.

Definitely tell the OM's wife. No doubt about that. Good for you for setting your boundaries and sticking to it. I can understand how it will be difficult to parent 50% when you work all the time. Can you take certain days off from work and schedule to be at the marital home on those days and nights? Set it up as a weekly schedule?

It's a terrible situation that we are all in. This forum is a great outlet full of support and encouragement. Read and post often. It has been very therapeutic for me. I'm still a newbie but am feeling better each day. Take care of yourself. Read all the FAQs and articles in the Healing Library. Research the "180".

BS- me 37
WH- him 38
1 son - almost 5
Married 8 years
Together 13 years
DDay 4/19/14
9 months of intense EA
2 days of PA

Posts: 58 | Registered: Jun 2014

Badhurt♂ 41947Member # 41947

Posted: 11:50 PM, July 21st (Monday), 2014

Doc
Please listen to the advice you are getting here. Working the hours you do if you do not do this right you will be treating your patients with part of your mind as to what your wife is doing

MC is a waste of time until you get remorse for her, not regret at getting caught or you saying no to her open marriage.
I really do not think you need IC.
You're a married man whose wife wants to cheat and wants you to agree to it.
What is there to discuss. It's either yes or no. The why doesn't matter until you decide if she stays your wife.

Posts: 1097 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: Eastern USA

Jeaniegirl♀ 6370Member # 6370

Posted: 11:57 PM, July 21st (Monday), 2014

Doc, you are getting great advice and you are on the right track - so follow through. Bringing everything to light is the best way and the OM's wife is another pair of eyes.

Good luck

"Because I deserve better"

Posts: 1043 | Registered: Feb 2005

Dyokemm♂ 40254Member # 40254

Posted: 5:02 AM, July 22nd (Tuesday), 2014

Definitely expose the A to POS's BW.

You're MC is nuts to oppose this IMO...and the opinion of your WW on this issue is worthless.

The BW deserves to know and it is the best way to end the A for good and make sure POS has something else to keep him busy instead of pursuing your WW.

Personally, I would not consider R at all in your situation for one reason alone.

She actually approached you with this open relationship bullshit and heard your resounding 'No'.

Not only had she already started the A, but she then proceeded to blow right through the stop sign you put up anyway.

Total premeditation....and unforgivable IMO.

Does she admit to these 'dates' being a full blown PA even though she denies the rendezvous at her parents'?

Or is she trying to claim it was 'just kissing'?

Another possible side benefit to telling POS's BW is that he will probably throw your WW under the bus to save himself and more info on the extent of this A will come to you via the OM's BW.

Posts: 65 | Registered: Aug 2013

wk55hn♂ 44159Member # 44159

Posted: 6:30 AM, July 22nd (Tuesday), 2014

Hi Doc, I'm sorry you're going through this, but you are doing ok.

It's your call on whether to tell the other guy's wife. I did. I believe she has the right to know so she can make decisions about her life based on the truth. Whether to buy that new house or try for another kid or quit her job or get a job - she should be able to make those decisions knowing that her husband is exploring the possibility that he might leave her for another woman, if it works out with the other woman. Would you want someone to clue you in? Whatever decision you make on telling the other man's wife, you have to live with your decision, so do what YOU want to do and what YOU think is right, not what WS or in-laws or the "counselor" says. By the way, I think the counselor is a dud if he/she is trying to force-feed you a single course of action and not giving you pros/cons and factoring in YOUR beliefs and values.

As far as reconciliation goes, it is not likely to work if you are forced into it and if your wife still is cheating. Take your time. For many people, cheating is a deal breaker, they file for divorce and move on immediately and never post on an internet forum about how to work it out. Tell your in-laws and wife and counselor that you will make your decision in your own time on reconciliation, and you will let them know when you do, so they should stop asking or pressuring.

If you work 60 hours a week, that doesn't leave a lot of time for the kids. Like it or not, you've got to change that. You are going to have to make arrangements at work to spend the time with the kids that you have to spend. I don't know what this means as far as your career and opportunities to advance, but I think your kids are more important.

Posts: 876 | Registered: Jul 2014

happyman64♂ 33212Member # 33212

Posted: 7:22 AM, July 22nd (Tuesday), 2014

Doc

Stay tough.

Tell the OM's wife. She deserves to know and can also help control the situation.

Your MC is an idiot. The affair must be confirmed dead and your wife truly remorseful before the marriage can be fixed.

Your wife has lied to you. Reconciliation cannot take place until she is remorseful and 100% honest with you about the Affair.

She also needs to get a full time job. That will hopefully allow you to work a few less hours and you can use that extra time with the kids.

Your wife is selfish and a liar.

Why does she want to reconcile now? What are her reasons?

HM

Posts: 1126 | Registered: Aug 2011 | From: New York

wanttogoforward♀ 29912Member # 29912

Posted: 7:36 AM, July 22nd (Tuesday), 2014

First of all... NO ONE should be pressuring you to R until you feel comfortable and feel you have the answers you deserve!

Those who are pressuring you to not tell the OM's wife are nuts.... you NEED to tell her because she is your other set of eyes and ears when you cannot be there. Two vigilant spouses can guarantee there is no further contact.... plus the both of you can compare notes and then be able to ensure you have as much of the truth as possible. Many affairs will simply go underground if you keep quiet.... do you deserve that? Do your children? Does his wife and kids who are completely innocent of his deception? Tell her asap- go to her house when you think he will not be home.... take your evidence and be as kind as possible... you will blow apart her world, but remember her world as she knows it now is a false shell, and like you, she deserves to know the truth of the life she is living.

A new counselor likely is in order here- and an IC for you- you can only control you and your small world right now... do whatever you need to to feel safe.

Posts: 1203 | Registered: Oct 2010 | From: still lost

Twitchy♂ 25393Member # 25393

Posted: 7:36 AM, July 22nd (Tuesday), 2014

You've gotten very good advice. I'm going to give you a great example of why the OBS always needs to know about the A.

I'm also a Toronto guy, but my brother and I grew up in northern Ontario and he lived with his wife and kids in Muskoka. She was from Northern Quebec. Her family owns a small business up there and her brother runs it.

They were having some difficulties and she was feeling a little homesick so she when back home to visit her family a few times. She kept getting more distant. Later, she informed my brother that they were offered a share of the family business. He thought it would be a good idea. She would have more support and he would have secure work and a share of the business, too. They moved to northern Quebec.

Three months after the move, he finds out she has been seeing the manager at the family business. She started seeing him during her visits home. She orchestrated the move to get her kids back home with her before she separated from my brother. He was out of a job and trapped in a small town where he knew no one and had no job prospects in his field. He's still there cuz he refused to leave his kids alone with her.

No one saw that coming. If he had known what situation he was really in, he could have made a better informed decision about his future.

Away you will go, sailing in a race among the ruins.
If you plan to face tomorrow, do it soon. Gordon Lightfoot

Posts: 670 | Registered: Sep 2009 | From: Ontario - Canada

Long Gone♂ 32587Member # 32587

Posted: 12:06 PM, July 22nd (Tuesday), 2014

Brother......

As stated above.....

Tell The OMs wife.....shitcan the Counselor.....

then sit back and wait and see what happens.

D-Day 11/26/10

Posts: 772 | Registered: Jun 2011

steppingup♂ 42650Member # 42650

Posted: 12:25 PM, July 22nd (Tuesday), 2014

I am also getting pressure (from my WS, the counselor and from my in-laws) not to contact the OP and the OP's wife. Part of me feels like the OP's wife deserves to know and I am looking for advice on that too.

Dr. Toronto - this is unacceptable on so many levels and I know you as an educated man (like myself) cannot live knowing there is another out there in the dark about the reality about their spouse. You were right in saying an open relationship is wrong, likely she was cheating on you before she asked.

Her AP is a liar and likely looking for a new AP, his wife needs to know. Morally it is required, even if it rocks your boat a bit.

Try this, it works for me alot. Ask your WW, would it be ok with you if I cheated on you and you never knew about it? She will say "No". No more hypocrisy! Tell the BS of the AP.

*Salutes you*

Her (WW 40s) Me (BH, 40s) very young DS & DD

An excellent wife is the crown of her husband, but she who brings shame is like rottenness in his bones (Proverbs 12:4)

Posts: 1080 | Registered: Mar 2014 | From: CALI

homewrecked2011♀ 34678Member # 34678

Posted: 12:40 PM, July 22nd (Tuesday), 2014

I see alot on here where the MC says not to tell the OBS..
I think it has to do with the MC focusing on the people at hand....

You can get a PI to do it, or you can do it personally, but dont' leave a f/b message, email message, etc, because lots of people have their email/facebook on their phones and if they don't suspect anything, then their phones are laying around for their WS to check.

One guy on this site gathered his printouts and went to see the OBS - a teacher one night after parent teacher conferences. He was scared, but she REALLY appreciated him doing this, because she thought she was going crazy.

DO IT! Don't tell anyone!

The other reason to do this is because I am now in hell because my WS is living with the OW.. She is pretty crazy and my kids have to be around her. If I could have gotten to her BS before they did, he might have believed me and they might have reconciled and been together. I would still be divorced, but my XWH and I would probably be coparenting better w/o her in the picture. Really, they might end up together anyway, so I'm sorry to ramble here, I guess just tell the OBS and let go of the results. But she absolutely deserves to know.

me BS 52
him - 46
married 15 years DIVORCED 10 31 12
children - ds15 ds12
d-day 12-19-11
I gave a 24hour ultimatum then went to attorney next day
Divorce filed

Posts: 2461 | Registered: Jan 2012

seethelight♀ 43513Member # 43513

Posted: 1:24 PM, July 22nd (Tuesday), 2014

The first counselor I saw told me not to bother calling the OW's husband to inform him of the affair.

She said to focus on the saving the marriage.

However, contact between my husband and the OW did not stop, until I contacted the OW's husband.

She had suffered no consequence from the affair. So, she was continuing to attempt to rekindle.

“If two people truly have feelings for one another then they don’t have an affair. They get a divorce and they sort out their feelings. You are accountable for the people you hold hostage in a marriage when your mind and heart refuse to fully commit

Posts: 1516 | Registered: May 2014

1Faith♀ 38975Member # 38975

Posted: 5:22 PM, July 22nd (Tuesday), 2014

also know that it is a good idea for both of us to better understand what we both did to lead us into this appalling situation

Her choice to lie and cheat. Her choice to continue to be with this OM.

You own 50% of the state of the marriage but 0% of the affair.

Nothing drives a person to cheat expect their own selfish choices.

Has you WW gone NC with this OM? Are you sure? How is she conveying that she wants to R?

I would tread lightly. Any remorse on her part or just inconvenience?

Good luck. We are here for you.

"I can be changed by what happens to me. But I refuse to be reduced by it." - Maya Angelou