I did a seminar with Bill deThouars, and I have to say it was one of the worst seminars I've ever taken - just a complete mish-mash of whatever happened to cross his mind at that moment. Thanks for the trip down memory lane, but it wasn't worth the price of admission.

In contrast, the brief rolling I did apres-seminar with his student Randall Goodwin was a definite learning experience, and I wish I could've spent the day training with him instead.

Hell, sorry about that! The deThouras were/are all ceritfiable. Chaz and Gartin are nuts and in&out of trouble/near-death experiences etc.

They are expert Kali/Silat/FMA knife hounds. Are we seeing a trend?

Also depressing, it seems like any good style is watered down by the third generation: BJJ into online training/ranking/in-house competetions, Kali or Silat into Sikal, almost every style of Kung-Fu or Jap JJ that used to work now sux. Sambo is probably next and that will be my task!!!11!! *pumps fist in air*

Many things we do naturally become difficult only when we try to make them intellectual subjects. It is possible to know so much about a subject that you become totally ignorant.
-Mentat Text Two (dicto)

I'm not saying that it cannot lead to serious injury, but I think the potency has been over hyped and that's dangerous if someone is into self defense. I know playing Rugby in school days that if I got a finger in the eye I would close one eye and carry on playing, and from what I've read of grappling tournaments a dirty trick is to poke the eyes, I've seen a guy in a video get it done to him, he carried on and didn't call for a DQ and won. (is that common grapplers).

Check Richard Grannon debunking that a chop to the throat is uber deadly...

Strangely enough, rugby was what taught me that HARD throat shots aren't necessarily lethal or even incapacitating. The first one I took actually slowed me down more because I expected it to be teh D3adly than the pain/discomfort of it. Obviously it's a great target to hit if you have an opening, but I've tried to explain to people that it isn't nescessarily incapacitating based on my experiences and they assume I'm lying because they "know" what it is supposed to do.

Originally Posted by jimmywangyu

At the same time, there are people that have survived gun shot wounds, but it does not make it less deadly...

People can take direct hits from gouges/throat strikes and ignore it, someone who takes a rifle round through the center of mass is most definitely going to need serious medical attention in the near future. Bad analogy.

That's funny. I've got a close friend and competent fighter who swears that boxing combined with rugby makes the best self-defense combination possible.

Think about it for a second.

Against all odds, and Hedge's lovely little contribution, this actually turned into a good read.

I forget who said it, but there was a post where they mentioned some of the silat takedowns were similar to high level BJJ takedowns and I've had the same experience. The difference was that nobody in the silat I trained was able to convincely use them when it came time to spar.

In BJJ I've pulled off some **** that's scarily similar to the silat I've trained. But I learned it in BJJ.

It's just funny how interconnected all this stuff is. Not the arts perse, but rather the interconnectedness of effectiveness.

When I was searching for silat originally it was because of watching a video with Steve Gartin in it. I've got problem with weirdos, actually I have a lot of affection being one myself. But I was never able to find anything like it in the city.

I'd still love to get together and play with some of that stuff, but nobody wants to do this **** live anymore. At least not around here. And I'm leery of getting together with silat people who are often creepy, out of shape or psychotic.

Last edited by JP; 3/31/2009 2:57pm at .

Go placidly amid the noise and haste,
and remember what peace there may be in silence.
As far as possible, without surrender,
be on good terms with all persons.
Speak your truth quietly and clearly;
and listen to others,
even to the dull and ignorant;
they too have their story.

Conversely, I've yet to seeSilat do anything more than mandancing and pointfighting.

There you go. See the point? :love5:

"Judo is a study of techniques with which you may kill if you wish to kill, injure if you wish to injure, subdue if you wish to subdue, and, when attacked, defend yourself" - Jigoro Kano (1889)
***Was this quote "taken out of context"?***

"The judoist has no time to allow himself a margin for error, especially in a situation upon which his or another person's very life depends...."
~ The Secret of Judo (Jiichi Watanabe & Lindy Avakian), p.19

"Hope is not a method... nor is enthusiasm."
~ Brigadier General Gordon Toney

Are you really comparing current Christian doctrine to that of the Knights Templar?

"Judo is a study of techniques with which you may kill if you wish to kill, injure if you wish to injure, subdue if you wish to subdue, and, when attacked, defend yourself" - Jigoro Kano (1889)
***Was this quote "taken out of context"?***

"The judoist has no time to allow himself a margin for error, especially in a situation upon which his or another person's very life depends...."
~ The Secret of Judo (Jiichi Watanabe & Lindy Avakian), p.19

"Hope is not a method... nor is enthusiasm."
~ Brigadier General Gordon Toney

Are you really comparing current Christian doctrine to that of the Knights Templar?

Jim, I'm asking you as an internet buddy, (whatever weight that carries) just please let that one go?

Please? We don't really need to have a discussion about rapacious crusaders do we?

Go placidly amid the noise and haste,
and remember what peace there may be in silence.
As far as possible, without surrender,
be on good terms with all persons.
Speak your truth quietly and clearly;
and listen to others,
even to the dull and ignorant;
they too have their story.

Hell, sorry about that! The deThouras were/are all ceritfiable. Chaz and Gartin are nuts and in&out of trouble/near-death experiences etc.

They are expert Kali/Silat/FMA knife hounds. Are we seeing a trend?

Also depressing, it seems like any good style is watered down by the third generation: BJJ into online training/ranking/in-house competetions, Kali or Silat into Sikal, almost every style of Kung-Fu or Jap JJ that used to work now sux. Sambo is probably next and that will be my task!!!11!! *pumps fist in air*

On the other hand, the deThouars do have 2nd generation students who are very well respected as effective Silat stylists (Cliff Stewart and Stevan Plinck for a start) amid the rabble. There are less than a handful of quality 1st gen students of Rudy Terlinden, amid a crowd of wannabees. Herman Suwanda and his brother did and still are still putting out quality teaching, with Dan Inosanto and Ron Balicki being students of Herman Suwanda and the deThouars. BJJ has had how long on the world market to get watered down, compared to the centuries that Silat has had? BJJ is just a baby compared to everything else. The bullshit comes out where there's money to be made, people misrepresenting their skill levels, buying ranks and lying about their backgrounds. It happens everywhere. The one thing BJJ has for it is that quality is easy to test. Just make the poseur roll with somebody teh R347. Silat has had centuries and is totally culturally embeded. Silat's used for everything from life or death blade combat to flowery dancing at weddings. It's hard to wade throught the bullshit, I'll be the first to admit it. However, this doesn't erase the very real art underneath.

I'm not defending it, it's just the facts. In fact, there's no way for me to prove it. Even if I did waste my time getting folks together to make a vid and post it, plenty of people would still naysay. What do I do then? & if people do like what they see, they may be bangin' down my door to try and train with me. **** that! I like my small training group, & at this moment no one that I train with is doing it for the money. We like it this way. Actually, talking about my training doesn't really benefit me at all, just internet chit-chat. Take it or leave it, either is fine.

"Judo is a study of techniques with which you may kill if you wish to kill, injure if you wish to injure, subdue if you wish to subdue, and, when attacked, defend yourself" - Jigoro Kano (1889)
***Was this quote "taken out of context"?***

"The judoist has no time to allow himself a margin for error, especially in a situation upon which his or another person's very life depends...."
~ The Secret of Judo (Jiichi Watanabe & Lindy Avakian), p.19

"Hope is not a method... nor is enthusiasm."
~ Brigadier General Gordon Toney

So my analogy maybe good or bad, but its more opinion rather than fact...

LOL...anyhow, I gather you are trying to be funny by stating that eye shots do not work. The only time I see someone take a eye shot and not feel pain was in "Executioners Of Shaolin" by Pai Mei - and that is just a movie:new_Eyecr

Same with groin shots in the movie...LOL

I agree that it might not take out the nervous system, but I can definitely say that its gonna sting. & for the small percentage where it doesn't affect them, well that is just plain scary...LOL