Didn't say I was in yet, so I am. Also would like to go on the record as saying that I don't think you should be able to change keepers at this point. There was a keeper deadline for a reason, offseason surgeries are just a part of the game.

See, I have to disagree with you. Fantasy sports aren't like the actual sport. It's a way for us to enjoy the game a little bit more.

A baseball team wouldn't keep an injured player on their active roster. Neither should I be forced to keep an injured player on my active roster (which is implied since I lose the round I draft them in).

I have never, in 7 years, been involved with a league that penalized a team for off-season injuries. The way it was typically dealt was.

1) Teams submit final keepers a few weeks prior to the draft. Those are locked in stone, and you can't do anything about them. Initial keepers are almost always subject to off-season trades an injuries.

2) You can swap an injured player and release him to the market. And keep another.

3) Alternatively, if a player gets injured, you can drop them and keep that draft pick.

That's that. I'm not going to field a team that gets a proverbial hand tied behind the back for an off-season move when this thread wasn't active.

If we're using that "lose a draft pick" rule, then we should be allowed to change keepers prior to the beginning of the draft. You shouldn't have to keep someone who will be out for eighteen months. That's a waste of a roster slot for an entire baseball season.

I actually really like holds since we have 20 teams, rosters need to be deep, and thus it gives non-closer relief pitchers a stat that gives them purpose on the roster. Why get rid of hits? I guess Im not as open to changing them as I suggested. More a guide for what to draft for. (IMG:http://forums.thesmartmarks.com/style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

Because Hits really don't mean a damn thing other than getting to 1st base and is basically included in OBP while Doubles can lead to scoring situations. Would rather see the 1 inning mid relief pitcher get the Save or Loss than throw 3 outs and be awarded the Hold because nobody scored on him.

Ok, perhaps we should do another PM poll so this thing is democratic. For what its worth I've finished calculating the draft order for Round 1 but will hold off on posting it until these issues are set since they'll likely effect player selections.

Any other statistical categories any of you wish to nominate, please post them. Probably tommorow I'll send out PMs and we can vote.

Scoring hits or doubles (and not both) are acceptable to me. Adding SLG may make things too bloated, because I can't see removing OBP or anything else to make room for it. That is, unless we add another positive statistic to the pitching categories.

We've got twenty teams. That leaves alot of slim pickings at pitchers. HOlds as a category makes alot more pitchers valuable to have. I mean, what would scot shields, the greatest active 8th inning relief pitcher, be worth without holds?

Gotta keep holds in, because otherwise, we're going to have 3 KC Royal Starting pitchers actually on active roster, and that aint a pretty sight

I don't see the problem with holds. At least, no problem that you wouldn't have with saves as well. They are both just as arbitrary of stats. If you wanted both gone I could see an arguement there, but otherwise they aren't different. At least with holds available you have some options if you don't get a Rivera/Wagner/Ryan, you don't absolutely have to carry the closers who put up a 6.50 ERA, but hey they get the saves.

And my defense of holds only has a little (well maybe a good amount) to do with that being the main reason I could feasibly keep Joel Zumaya.

Good relievers help pad your ERA, WHIP and Ks, so they still carry value without holds. That said, I don't care either way on counting holds.

The thing with having OBP and hits as categorys and nothing covering doubles/triples/slugging is that there's a whole bunch of players who's value won't be appreciated. Say you've got a guy with an average OBP but he hits 30-40 doubles and 5 triples, with the stats as they are now he wouldn't be worth any more than a guy who hits a ton of singles. That doesn't seem right.

I favor adding SLG over adding doubles, but I'd take either over just hits as a stat

OK, I think a combination of enough people liking holds and no real alternative stat for pitchers being presented (besides the suggested of losses or homeruns allowed (which doesn't exist as an avaliable stat according to yahoo) means we'll keep the pitching stats as is.

Now, I think we have enough discussion on hits vs. doubles vs. slugging % to warrant a VOTE~! so I will PM everyone and each manager can vote for which one of the 3 they'd like to have. I'll say you have until the end of the weekend to respond, but please do respond as soon as you can so we can move on quicker. Like I said, I have Round 1 ready to go but I want to wait to settle these issues before posting it.

I hate the Holds category but in a league of this size it's almost necessary.

I don't see how adding Doubles and removing Hits would make the hitting statistics fairer. It would lower the value of batters that get triples. With the Hit category, a batter hitting a triple would help the owner out by logging a statistic in the Hits and OBP categories during that at bat. Removing the Hits category and replacing it with the Doubles category would give the owner of a player that gets a triple only one positive statistic for that at bat, OBP. It would actually make a triple less significant than a double.

I say since the league doesn't like the Hits category that we should go with SLG for the replacement. That way Singles, Doubles, Triples, and Home Runs are all summed up in a nice weighted average.