AdLib : Well, looks like it’s time to end tonight’s session of Vox Populi! Thank you so much for such a fun and thoughtful discussion tonight, this was really one of my favorites! We can continue at the related post, follow this link: «link»

AdLib : KQ – With all studio movies now prisoners of market research, they have to be predictable and derivative to score well. In essence, studio films need to follow what 13 – 21 year olds think a story should be…and that doesn’t leave a lot of creativity on the table.

kesmarn : Thanks, Patsy. Didn’t mean to go O/T and maudlin to boot on you there. But we do appreciate the kind thoughts.

KQµårk : I’m out too. It’s time for the third period.

KQµårk : I see Obama is going to vacation in Ashville, NC at the Grove Park Inn. That’s the first place my wife and I stayed together after camping together that is.

PatsyT : Kes it will workout for the best

kesmarn : Yes, when he takes a break from Seinfeld, I hope the Deity does something nice for the lad.

AdLib : Kes – It’s a very stressful thing, I know it’s been tough.

KQµårk : Yeah you would think Adlib. Movies are bad enough as it is.

AdLib : Night Seek! Sleep well and dream of beanie weenies made of Spam.

PatsyT : Seek you have been a pleasure !

kesmarn : G’night, S&D. It’s been fun.

AdLib : KQ – Actually, the studios have put a stop to that. As bad as most studio movies are now, they would have to play it so safe in the future that it would smother most creativity in films.

KQµårk : True PatsyT. You can also believe anything but scientific facts can’t be changed.

kesmarn : AdLib, thanks for the laughter. As you may know this has not been a good week…especiall y for my son!

AdLib : Kes – You are cracking me up all night!!! Well, to be kinder to science, science is the little kid telling WC Fields that his magic trick is a fake, “Get away boy, you bother me!”

PatsyT : Science is curious – Religion not so much

KQµårk : Adlib I don’t know if you heard but they are going to start trading on box office futures. I just don’t know how our who economic system turned into one big casino.

kesmarn : Science is like a benevolent Joe Wilson, yelling out the occasional: “You lie!!” AdLib?

AdLib : Night HITO, so glad to have you here tonight! Rest well and get strong!

KQµårk : Nite HITO great to have you here.

AdLib : Kes – I wonder if it is more that they can dominate people with absolutist rhetoric and by invoking fear…and science takes their power away by saying, “No way! There couldn’t be a hell under the crust of the Earth, check out the imaging we’ve done!”

PatsyT : Nighty Night HITO Speedy Healing to you.

kesmarn : G’night HITO. Sleep well.

HITO : Kids, my meds have kicked in, so I bid you adieu. Thanks for a fun evening. See you soon.

kesmarn : What’s the BritCom about the woman Vicar? I’ve only seen a couple episodes but it was pretty funny.

AdLib : Patsy, I think science and God have not only met, they went to school together. The Religious Right are like the jealous friend who’s jealous of science and disses it to God, “Don’t be friends with science! Eew!”

KQµårk : I love AbFab well hell I love about ever Britcom. Father Ted is my personal favorite. It’s a former Catholic thing.

PatsyT : Tech trouble yes.

SeeknDestroy : LOL…along with Buffy The Vampire Slayer….:-)

PatsyT : KQ Science and God just have no met yet but I think science is more willing to think about God they The Religious is willing to think about Science

AdLib : Seek – I hear God has every season of Absolutely Fabulous too.

AdLib : Patsy! Technical problems?

kesmarn : Hand signal with “V” — two finger on each side!

KQµårk : Live long and prosper kes.

SeeknDestroy : Friday nights, huh?…Cool…

KQµårk : I like allot of premises regarding Gaia theory.

PatsyT : Oppps

kesmarn : KQ, at the risk of doing a “Spock” I have to say: Fascinating!!

PatsyT : My

AdLib : KQ – That’s also similar to the Gaia perspective, that the whole of God is really made up of a connection of everything that lives and exists.

kesmarn : We started off with Wall Street and ended up on the meaning of life. From the ridiculous to the sublime. And then to Seinfeld. Back to the ridiculous. The great dialectic.

KQµårk : It’s funny I think more and more we learn about distributive intelligence like a hive of bees the more I wonder if that’s the model behind “god”. If you think about it there may be enough “information” in strings and particles themselves to form a distributive intelligence.

SeeknDestroy : I believe God is more about relative decency than vengeful anger as well.

AdLib : Kes – I also hear He never gets tired of watching old Seinfeld episodes.

AdLib : KQ – People have asked what “The Meaning of Life” is (other than a Python film) for thousands of years. What if the equation is that simple, being at peace with your existence and God.

KQµårk : Night CL always great to chat with you.

kesmarn : Me too, KQ. No old guy in a white beard, but a huge, creative intelligence who maybe initiated the Big Bang and has a tremendous plan for the whole show.

choicelady : I fear I’m fading, so good night to all! Talk with you again soon! Hope youre allergies don’t keep you uncomfortable, KQ – be well! Good rest everyone!

AdLib : GOOOAL!!!

HITO : KQ – I have the linnk for the online version of “MakeBelieveMav eric” Email to you?

SeeknDestroy : The Church of the NFL! Worship all year!

kesmarn : CL, I wonder if there isn’t going to be a real face-off between the Catholic bishops and the women religious. I can see early signs already.

AdLib : CL – In fact, I would say that the Catholic leadership has disqualified itself in the eyes of most in the world now as being moral. How could a compassionate and loving human being put their job and their “business” ahead of vulnerable children being so horribly attacked? They have lost the high moral ground for a long time, if not for good in the minds of most people.

AdLib : Kes – If one of our missions in life is to have a sense of belonging in the world and the universe and having a sense of existence, then having a true sense of God should indeed lead to a certain confidence and happiness that one could rely on in life. It is the artifices of religion that imprison people.

kesmarn : Authentic faith always involves the risk of stepping out of the comfort zone. But I guess I can understand why these women would be terrified of that.

choicelady : ADLib – indeed. I work closely with the CA CAtholic Conference, and I really like them on many issues – but I won’t tolerate any notion that they have moral superiority over us! Hah!

AdLib : CL – Not to mention what we’ve seen unfold with the current Pope and his cronies.

kesmarn : AdLib and CL, these poor RW women. If they could connect with authentic spirituality, it would liberate them. Some of the women religious i know are the happiest most productive people I’ve ever met.

KQµårk : Barely HITO to be honest. I do remember looking at his voting record since 2004 though.

choicelady : AdLib – I could not agree more. We’ve had two magnificent men fired not by their churches but by distant “authorities” who did not like their sympathies to GLBT people. Now what kind of church or denomination takes ministers to task for practicing inclusive love???? Bah!

AdLib : The McCain Action Figure comes with a Fighter Jet that crashes as soon as you put him in the pilot’s seat!

HITO : I have it somewhere..good McCain facts.

HITO : KQ..do you remember that ROlling Stone article from before the election?

KQµårk : Well kes I’m not stuck here forever at least thanks to HCR.

kesmarn : Oh yeah, Patsy, the panty hose and the push up bra.

SeeknDestroy : Topic?

KQµårk : HITO did you hear McCain last week say he never claimed to be a Maverick? That’s one main reason I was thinking about writing a piece on his broken promises and lies.

PatsyT : Kes no the heels are just one thing- He has to try the panty hose

kesmarn : KQ…and you’re in GA. Not a mild climate!

choicelady : KQ – I know that is what is supposed to mean – no saddle – but…if it’s Sarah, I think it’s open to debate!

AdLib : CL – It is a profound disconnect that the corruption of spirituality by human beings, to give them control over others, makes religion so destructive towards some who openly approached seeking spirituality and connection with God. The irony is, religion would be so much more positive if not for those in charge of religions.

HITO : kesmarn…no way

KQµårk : Oh yeah Kes and the worst part is the local electric company here only did even payments for two year so my summer electric bills are brutal.

choicelady : kes – it has been pretty awful to SEE much less reading the stories in the news.

kesmarn : If he thought he knew torture, wait’ll he tries on Sarah’s 5 inch heels. OK that was in poor taste…

SeeknDestroy : with *Maverick grip*….hmmmmmm mmm

PatsyT : A bikini ?

HITO : Let’s put Palin’s clothes on McCain just to see if he can tough that out…cause he’s a maverick.

kesmarn : KQ air conditioning would be an absolute necessity for you, i imagine.

PatsyT : Lets put Palin makeup on McCain

KQµårk : “bare back” just means riding without a saddle.

HITO : WITH interchangeable Palin’s head?

KQµårk : Yeah that’s one of the problems. About the only think I can and do do is increase my O2 therapy. Ha ha he said do do.

PatsyT : We can take off his head ??

kesmarn : c’lady, truly you could write a book. I know the two RW religious zealots in my family grew up in great dysfunction and chaos.

KQµårk : It kills me how many promises Obama kept that progressives think he was playing wink nod politics about are a big part of some people’s disappointment

choicelady : KQ – just picked up the no saddle thread. And what does ‘bare back” mean in this context????

AdLib : The New McCain Doll! With Maverick Grip action…which can be detached if that makes him less popular.

kesmarn : KQ, that’s rough with allergies. And there are so many allergy meds you can’t take with a heart condition…

choicelady : kes – the stories (and they do talk when you get them going) are sad beyond sad. There is huge sorrow and denial in their lives. Many of them are living lies of sexual identity – cannot face being gay or lesbian, and many have had drug and other problems. Most cannot connect with people at ALL but CAN exist in groups with very strict limits. At least for a time. They need affection but don’t think they are worthy, so women tend to gravitate to very emotionally abusive relationships – it’s all they deserve. The litany, however, of abuse IN these “Godly” families is just as awful as what they tried to escape. Their religion gives almost NO comfort. Look at all the women who killed their kids in some kind of religious setting – thought they were imperfect or their kids were possessed or they had been abused and wanted to escape. Almost all the female murderes of kids have a deep born again religions environment coupled with abuse. HORRIBLE.

HITO : And use the plank for god’s sake!

KQµårk : I will when I feel a little better. My allergies are killing me and they make my heart condition worse because I can’t breath right.

PatsyT : Yes lets play dress McCain next a gennie

AdLib : KQ – That Rolling Stone article on McCain solidified him in my head as an unprincipled opportunist who would say or do anything to win elections and get celebrity and money. The 2008 campaign proved that. And this latest bullshit was as open an admission from a politician that they have no morals and all they care about is winning, as I’ve ever seen.

choicelady : KQ – I agree, but they believe Man (not necessarily the inclusive term but males for sure) is the Highest Work of God so yeah – they believe they will rise triumphant at the End.

KQµårk : What was the topic?

AdLib : KQ – Imagine how many Christian dinosaurs were disappointed when the asteroid hit, caused an Apocalypse and they didn’t get even with the better off dinosaurs who thought they were better than them.

SeeknDestroy : Thank you!

choicelady : S&D – you’re a refreshing addition to our ranks!

SeeknDestroy : Kevin Smith casted Dogma very well.

kesmarn : c’lady to back up on a fast moving thread. That’s very interesting about the level of childhood abuse among religious RW people.

choicelady : HITO – I’m into either Morgan Freeman or George Burns as God. Either way is fine with me.

KQµårk : Selma Hayek was a superior angel too. he he

choicelady : Patsy T – you must have seen those cartoons, “Jesus with guns”. Seriously weird stuff.

SeeknDestroy : She did!

kesmarn : Yes, maybe when I think the Deity’s at work, he’s really just celebrating a festival in India.

Khirad : Alanis did make an awesome God.

AdLib : Hito – Exactly! God is a fantastic supporting character!

SeeknDestroy : KQuark…Me too..I own that movie!

choicelady : Oh AdLib – I see we’ve met the same God!

Khirad : I like South Park’s God (who is a professed Buddhist).

AdLib : Kes – God works a lot but he looks forward to the holidays because he gets to celebrate all of them from every religion…so… maybe he doesn’t work so much!

PatsyT : KQ like a kid throwing a tantram, they think it’s all about them

KQµårk : My favorite portrayal of God was Alanis Morrisette in Dogma.

kesmarn : KQ, with Earth’s luck it’ll probably be cockroaches.

choicelady : kes – a lot had fathers who molested them (a REALLY common story) or were totally absent. But the father they project in God is mean, mean, mean. You’d think they’d want to find a loving God who accepted them without reservation, but they believe they are evil, so being “accepted” by a punitive God seems to be passing some kind of test.

SeeknDestroy : HITO..Exactly!

KQµårk : I think wishing for the Apocalypse is another area where people overestimate their importance in the grand scheme of things. The universe could give a flip about our extinction as a species. I mean how many species are we directly responsible for causing their extinction. If we do become extinct another species will come along and dominate the planet.

SeeknDestroy : I am…I’m a sarcastic ass most of the time

HITO : Adlib – Just like Morgan Freeman played him.

PatsyT : My buddy Jesus packs some mean heat being a gansta and all

kesmarn : See, AdLib? Obviously you had a COOL dad and, hence, a much friendler version of the deity. Mine’s at work a lot.

choicelady : S&D – you’d better be kidding – I LIKE goats!

AdLib : CL – Well, I happen to know that God is actually quite a friendly and amusing deity who just shakes His head when everyone points at him for things. He just shrugs and shoots a few hoops.

choicelady : Khirad – yes that IS where some of this comes in! Not all survivalists are religious zealots (McVeigh was not) but many ARE and are preparing for Tribulation. Interesting they don’t think THEY are Rapture Ready.

Khirad : Nailed it AdLib. And yes, CL, truly distorted. They take the Christ out of Christianity.

HITO : But I agree with what Adlib just wrote about the angrier version of born agains.

kesmarn : C’lady, you have to wonder if they had fathers who were ultra punitive and terrifying. Then they project that onto God.

HITO : I dated a CA born again..he went to Pat Boone’s church, even though he was a hippie musician. They weren’t angry about the apocalypse…the y just wanted to be with Jesus again.

SeeknDestroy : And I only sacrifice goats every other week……kiddin g

AdLib : CL – I agree! There is a sense of inferiority that such people seem to feel and an Apocalypse that lifts them up to heaven while leaving many of those who have been more successful or apparently happier in life, in hell.

choicelady : kes – I find the born again disaster seeking folks very dismal and desperate, but this is HOPE for them. They don’t believe God is love. They believe God is the Big Guy with the tally book into which every damned thing you do wrong is listed. They truly believe if their child gets sick, it’s God’s judgement on them as parents. They believe God is that mean. It’s horrible.

SeeknDestroy : kesmarn…..yep. ..it’s fairly nice….

Khirad : I’m a 24 hour Church of Obama.

KQµårk : I bet I wish I could get to the games Pepe does. He was at the gold metal game this year.

kesmarn : S&D. Never thought of that…the freedom of speech angle of being a sinner!

Khirad : Surviving the Tribulation? Great, survilalists on the plains of Megiddo. You really can see where the Militia movement fits into this.

choicelady : ADLib – I think your point is precisely right. If you’ve screwed up your life (and you’re not “born again” when you have been successful) you can finally take heart in knowing that YOU will go to Heaven, that you have nothing to fear, and that God loves you. I can honestly understand the attraction for people whose lives have been a total disaster. And it finally puts you one up on us liberals .

PatsyT : Gee those born againers are betting on destruction, like the repubs a betting on Obama being destroyed and the Casino on Wall Street bets on loans going bad – Do I see a trend?

HITO : And I was on the phone with Dey when another one came at me this morning. Told that one I was talking to my church’s pastorDey at that very moment

SeeknDestroy : As a sinner I can say ANYTHING!

KQµårk : I just threw in a micron and an angstrom HITO. Pretty apropos with the name methinks.

kesmarn : As a Catholic I can say that!

AdLib : HITO – Love it, The Church of Obama!

kesmarn : Is there any other kind of Catholic…lapse d…over-imbibed .

SeeknDestroy : adlib….LOL

HITO : careful adlib, I’m the lapsed catholic

SeeknDestroy : NHL….That’s where Pepe is right now….the Colorado game..

Khirad : Ditto CL, I can’t bring myself to read ’em. But like you, I know the patterns and references.

AdLib : Seek – For some, “dating a lapsed Catholic” means taking home a Catholic who drank too much at a bar.

HITO : OT, is it my meds, but why does KQ’s name look funny?

KQµårk : Detroit 0 Phoenix 1

choicelady : Khirad – hit the wrong key: The chapte was “If you’re reading this after the Rapture, don’t panic!” LOL!!!! What followed was instructions on surviving the Tribulation. VERY SERIOUSLY WEIRD.

KQµårk : San Jose 1 Colorado 1

SeeknDestroy : Sigh…Messiah?

Khirad : The Church banked on that destitution, quite literally, for hundreds of years. When your life sucks, the Eternal Glory and life everlasting sounds like a more immediate and attainable goal.

kesmarn : You have to wonder what sort of “religious” person would rather be right, and surrounded by dead neighbors, than for everyone to be loved by God.

HITO : When the hospital asked me what religion I was while registering I told them I was from the church of Obama.

choicelady : Khirad – I’ve never read the books, but I’m all to familiar with the theme. I know the signs and symbols and the injunctions to do things such as befriend Jews for 7 years (bet that makes Jews happy after 2000 years of not). It is utterly obscene to me that people could believe this BS. One of their 4-color booklets though had a GREAT chapter:

AdLib : Khirad – Isn’t the desire for Apocolypse more of a rescue fantasy for those who feel victimized in life?

HITO : Hey Seek, I resemble those remarks…

SeeknDestroy : Yes,I’m good…dating a lapsed Catholic…..:-)

HITO : Seek, so was Brigham Young

AdLib : CL – I wonder if the desire for the world to end is not in essence, wanting an end to waking up fearful and feeling helpless every day? You don’t see well off people rooting for their lives to end. There could be an ironic twist, that those whose lives are consigned to poverty and feeling they have failed at life, help perpetuate that for more people and generations by supporting the RW who cater to their desire to end the unfairness and fear they must wake up to each day.

kesmarn : c’lady. Heehee just saw your follow up on the old bat. So you were contemplating introducing her to her Maker?

Khirad : We should talk about the Left Behind series sometime. I ran into one of these on an Israel thread. When it came down to it and I argued points from a rational foreign policy perspective, they had nothing left and started cryptically citing passages. I, of course, recognized them as common apocalyptic passages used by this crowd. They honestly don’t care if the world goes to hell, and it doesn’t surprise me of this personal mindset of relishing surviving at everyone else’s expense and suffering.

choicelady : S&D – I trust you’re recovering? Some of my best friends are. Makes you far more kind and aware!

SeeknDestroy : *fiscal conservative* is a myth

HITO : I liked Shuster. Never liked Ratigan back when he was just a jerk on Scarborough.

kesmarn : Oh, c’lady, I’ll bet she was one surprised old bat when the Great Celestial Bean Ball hit her in the noggin.

HITO : CL your typing is excellently fast. Kudos.

PatsyT : They got rid of Schuster and gave Ratigan a show ??

PatsyT : Ratigan is that guy in the Ally Bank commercials

SeeknDestroy : I’m 44..I stopped attending at 16….Metallica, anyone?

choicelady : I had to take time off when i realized I was thinking of showing her she was wrong…Not one of my finer moments.

kesmarn : I haven’t seen Ratigan in a long, long time. When his show changed times, I lost him. Sounds like he’s gone seriously down hill.

choicelady : Since, as a pro choice escort, I spent a LOT of time with the born again end times folks, I learned how excited they got about it, and NOT because they thought their own end was nigh but OURS was. They relish the idea of the world blowing up around them, and their walking unscathed through it all. When bad things happen to them – you know, like dying – they are SHOCKED. One old bat (never COULD like her) said she was born again and would never die – and she did NOT mean spiritually but actually WOULD NOT DIE.

AdLib : Kes is definitely on a great roll!

Khirad : My condolences, Seek.

Khirad : I’ll never forget Ratigan kissing Hamster’s ass.

PatsyT : Seek you naughty rebel !

SeeknDestroy : But I got over it LONG ago

AdLib : KQ – Ratigan is a blatant opportunist and his Repub pro-corporate side comes out even when he’s attacking them. I will never forget his cuddling up between T. Boone Pickens butt cheeks in his interview, “Everyone do what he says! He has a monopoly on Natural Gas but let’s make everything run on it! He will be a kind king to you!”

Khirad : Yes, it’s the Horror movie factor. Some people get a rush from being scared. But these are worse, they are little more than nihilists, whom have no sense of history (End Times have come and gone many a time according to the perennial whack-a-doodles o’er the ages).

SeeknDestroy : Cl…that’s not the HALF of it….I was raised Mormon too….

kesmarn : AdLib, did you say teenie-weenie?

choicelady : S&D – we all have skeletons in our family closets. It’s not a reflection on you.

choicelady : The Left has some of that – we see conspiracies everywhere. We get mad if people don’t believe us. Difference is – we are not consigning others to death, and we hardly ever shoot anyone over it. We also are pretty immune to magical thinking, and believing in the Rapture and Tribulation etc. DOES take a heap of magical thinking!

SeeknDestroy : I come from a fairly conservative family…my sister has turned into a Tea bagger…there I said it….no Spam throwing!

kesmarn : I think you are on to something, c’lady. They crave a big, disastrous event that will sort out the sheep from the goats once and for all.

HITO : KQ – you’ve been watching tv again, haven’t you?

PatsyT : HITO beware when Kes is on a roll

AdLib : Kes – Maybe to Repubs, beanie weenie is more of a physiological description.

Khirad : There is something to be said with them and dualistic distillation packaged for an authoritarian prone personality.

SeeknDestroy :

choicelady : S&D – in my world (the progressive, non-nuts faith people) we see SO much wackiness from the End Times folks who have “signs, portents, codes, and signals” everywhere to “prove” that the end is coming. It would be pitiful if they were not so horrible and mean. But they LOVE being scared because deep in their hearts they believe they will survive – and I won’t.

AdLib : Thanks Seek!!!

HITO : LOL Kesmarn..you guys are killing me!

AdLib : CL – That’s a very interesting concept. DO they like to be scared or do they like people boiling things down into simple dichotomies? Good and evil, them and us, our good way or their apocalypse? Maybe the feeling of at least “knowing” what’s going on in this otherwise confusing world (to them) is what they want, the fear just comes with it. And only the Repubs pander to that simplistic dishonesty…eve n though they don’t truly believe it, just to win elections and gain power!

Khirad : I have yet to get into their alternate reality, CL. It’s all predicated upon demagoguery aimed at an underlying paranoid belief. How to stamp out this inborn and instilled underlying view of the left, and infantile fantasy of Libertarianism, is, well – I don’t know if we can ever reach the deep recesses from whence this apocalyptic (only during Dem admins, mind you) worldview.

KQµårk : Adlib Ratigan is a perfect example of an opportunist like Aryanna. He was against HCR but is against WS because he’s riding that faux populist wave from the right. Of course Aryanna loves him because they are both the same.

kesmarn : On the other hand: Republicans and flatus do have a lot in common so we might be able to keep it to one thread after all.

HITO : no soda either, seek

SeeknDestroy : A Coke, HITO!

SeeknDestroy : CL….LOL!

HITO : CL…LOL!

kesmarn : c’lady…maybe you have something there. People are lapping up the fear mongering of people like Beck. Maybe they tell themselves it’s not so bad now because — look! –there’s all that REALLY scary stuff out there waiting.

choicelady : HITO dear – if it’s easier to talk about food, we’ll keep two threads going. No one in a post-surgical state should have to talk about Republicans. We can do both.

HITO : Exactly, adlib. That could kill me!

SeeknDestroy : Adlib is on FIRE!

AdLib : Hito – Then I would definitely stay away from the beanie weenies tonight!

PatsyT : Now that corporations are people they can where crowns

AdLib : Patsy – Exactly! What’s the difference between living under the dictatorship of a king or corporations?

choicelady : AdLib – then why do so many people fall for the Reep line? Why are the militas and other extremists fighting the gummint instead of Wall Street? Yes – McVeigh hated the 1994 ban on automatic weapons, but we’ve not had a new gun law since. NO one anywhere is talking about confiscation, but the militas are acting as if concentration camps for them are right around the corner. NO WAY. I think people like to be scare – gives them a focus.

PatsyT : AdLib, Hey wasn’t America founded to get away from centralized power like the monarchs ??

kesmarn : …and dark…and scawy…

SeeknDestroy : LOL!

AdLib : Hito – I’m so alone…and it’s cold out here…

SeeknDestroy : LOL

HITO : Poor adlib, staying on topic…

Khirad : That is true HITO, though they do have their own version of vaqueros, especially on the Big Island.

AdLib : Let’s face it, this sham of democracy is such a farce. They are no longer even trying to hide it anymore. The Repubs do everything they can to make the wealthy more powerful and wealthier and the money has to come from somewhere. If not the shrinking middle class and poor, where else?

HITO : A roasted Spam on Sunday was a big treat after depression times.

choicelady : …or live alone…

SeeknDestroy : Poppy Bush…LOL….to o easy

PatsyT : CL that Spam is working for you

choicelady : HITO –

choicelady : HITO – if you have good sense, you take Beano first…

choicelady : PAtsy – I am GOOD. Even if I do like Spam…

kesmarn : Yes, even Poppy Bush had the guts to do a U-turn on his “read my lips” no new taxes promise.

HITO : beenieweenie sounds very painful..

PatsyT : CL you have provided the Proof !!

SeeknDestroy : Be right back!

choicelady : beanieweenies is Beans and Hot Dogs. Yum!

PatsyT : On the shelf at fine grocery stores everywhere

Khirad : Blankeship, CEO of Massey Energy, has given thousands to Pat Toomey. I do hope whoever winds the Dem primary nails him on that, at least.

SeeknDestroy : LOL

AdLib : Khirad – Spamapple.

SeeknDestroy : HITO…You’ll bite?

choicelady : Khirad – ummmm – I actually LIKE Spam and pineapple,but it’s partly from HAM so it proves Obama is NOT Muslim.

AdLib : As bad as Reagan was, he raised some taxes because he was digging such a deep hole with tax cuts for the wealthiest…but the taxes he raised were on the middle class. Bush however, he was like the guy who figures his car is trashed anyway so why not drive it off the cliff and jump out at the last second?

HITO : Patsy, I’ll bite..what’s beenieweenie?

kesmarn : I think I’ll start a new career selling poverty derivatives. Then I’ll buy insurance against people every getting out of poverty and then I’ll sell that to people who will bet kid’s lunch money on the falling library paste stocks….

SeeknDestroy : PT….LOL

HITO : very little beef in Hawaii..all pork. Used to send omaha steaks to relatives who lived there

PatsyT : Spam- almost as good as beenie weenie

choicelady : AdLib – yes, that I remember. You are so correct! And the Reeps have been shifting taxes and risks downward every since! I do know you are 1000 times more likely to be audited by the IRS if you claim EITC than if you are a billionaire. Gotta keep those poor people under control, y’know…

Khirad : They do love their Spam and pineapple – and together… (all more proof Obama’s a secret Muslim)

AdLib : Kes – Character is an asset that can be used as the basis for a derivative so building it through poverty should be assessed as an asset.

AdLib : CL – It is only half a joke. Reagan is the one who cut taxes on the wealthy but instituted taxing people on their unemployment insurance. So…he did tax people because they were unemployed.

SeeknDestroy : Speaking of Hawaii…Spam, anyone?

choicelady : kes – oh, if you put it THAT way, I can see the logic (cough).

Khirad : “Back in 1984-1985, the company, then called AT Massey, used vicious strikebreaking tactics, with all-out support of President Ronald Reagan, to bust a strike by the United Mine Workers seeking union recognition at Massey mines in Logan County, W. Va.” and so on…

PatsyT : I have lots of character

kesmarn : Yes, it (poverty) builds character. And that costs money!

AdLib : I’m fine with grits, with over easy eggs to give them some flavor but full of butter and fat, they are.

choicelady : AdLib – oh PLEEZE tell me taxing poverty is a joke!

HITO : LOL Adlib

HITO : grits are a day at the beach compared to poi and haggis

AdLib : Kes – . Reagan declared poverty as an asset that should be taxed.

choicelady : OK – I can’t stand grits either, but I think we had this discussion. Poi, grits, haggis – every ethnic group has something all the others cannot stand. Isn’t America GREAT? No matter why our ancestors came here, they all got better meals.

kesmarn : Reagan considered library paste a vegetable on school menus.

AdLib : Haggis and Poi…

AdLib : Haggis & Po, wasn’t that the new fast food chain Goldman Sachs touted as the next McDonalds to investors then made a fortune when it failed?

Khirad : Haha, anything to get revenge on the haolie.

choicelady : Even IF it’s really library paste. Hell I ate that when I was a kid.

kesmarn : Patsy, LOL!

PatsyT : Glad they are getting some reading in

SeeknDestroy : LMFAO!!!

choicelady : AdLib – LOL!!! I guess you’d have to hogtie most folks on the poi issue! But then, I have Scots forebears who ate haggis. I’ll take the poi.

Khirad : at poi joke. That might be the only occasion under which I’d eat it.

PatsyT : Explain poi

choicelady : AdLib – I do agree save for its being the Prez’s home. He does not live it up when he’s there – it’s his HOME. They, on the other hand, spent a fortune in the state they still claim in not part of America. (What? No passport check?)

kesmarn : I guess for Repubs, laws against crime are only good when they’re enacted and enforced against minority people.

AdLib : Patsy – No lesbian bondage bars in Hawaii? How else do you get people to eat poi?

kesmarn : Well, Patsy, I dunno. Khirad has more recent info than I do!

AdLib : CL – I actually think that in the midst of a recession, Hawaii is not symbolically the best place to go to rant about excessive spending. But then, in the midst of this GS suit by the SEC, the Repubs are howling about regulating Wall Street.

choicelady : Patsy – Hawaii has way too much class!

SeeknDestroy : PT…LOL!

Khirad : Okay, I’ll have to check on the union thing.

PatsyT : No lesbian bondage bars in Hawaii ?? Whats up with that?

choicelady : Khirad – I did not know it was non-union. I though all of them were. Back in ’89 when Pittston workers were on strike, the state threatened to fine the UMW $1 million per day, and Trumpka said, let it rip. They won that strike! It was my impression that all the mines were UMW now. Guess I have been out of the picture too long.

Khirad : No kidding, this mine disaster happened and I was like let me guess… non-Union… Obama should totally use this.

choicelady : Hawaii would be fine, IF they’d not decried its “socialized medicine” and not realized they’d had it for 40 years. These people are STUPID.

HITO : Adlib they were only there to get a copy of his birthcertificate

PatsyT : Dick Armey has had a few to many croissants !

Khirad : I think everyone should get DC local news for this sort of coverage. They didn’t gin it up for ratings but simply showed the underwhelming ‘crowd’ in what was really a pathetic display. They were much more histrionic about the Caps losing.

AdLib : Kes – And let’s not forget that in the midst of a huge recession, the RNC met in Hawaii and from there decried government spending and declared that Obama and Dems were out of touch.

SeeknDestroy : bing bing BING BING bing bing bing……Yep, deuling …..

choicelady : kes – that image of tea baggers in limos with croissants is TOO FUNNY! Kinda like Dick Armey in his cowboy hat. As they say in Texas – all hat, no cattle.

choicelady : S&D – oooh – which banjo music? Never did like that “dueling banjos” thingy…

AdLib : CL – I wish Obama would hammer this coal mine travesty to push for card check and promoting unions. I know he’s in the midst of a big fight with financial reform but there may be no better argument or time.

kesmarn : The T-Bag people met in one of the more affluent suburbs here (better croissants at the coffee shop) and rallied…all 400 white old people who could get their limos out on tax day and mingle with the riffraff.

choicelady : kes – it’s all a fudiddle – add in the retirees and their health care and put it on working individuals. Except – retirement costs are PAID for and do not come out of today’s working capital. (Unless the corporatin ripped it off…)

SeeknDestroy : Banjo music plays in the background……

AdLib : Khirad – The MSM has been spinning this as a meaningful show of political power, only on blogs did I see people explaining that the amount of protesters is way down from last year…when fear of a black man in the White House was fresh.

PatsyT : Good Morning Baltimore !

choicelady : I used to teach union folks, my course was the legal and political foundations of global capital. They told me stories about the ways they were getting screwed that would curl your hair. I got more form them than they got from me. We’ve sold labor down the river and demonized it to boot. Time to stand up for working people and point out the basics of middle class stability through decent income. And then use the laws to take over folding corporations and give them to the employees! They know how to do it.

AdLib : CL – You just hit on the theme again, jealousy and selfishness. These types are fine with corporations stealing, they’re on the Repub team, but a black person having a high paying job, that’s an outrage!

kesmarn : c’lady…I live in auto worker country and no one would be more surprised than they to find they make $77/hr!

Khirad : Heh, the local news in DC showed the rally, and it looked like an Ahmadinejad one. Sparsely populated but purported to be grand. Now I’m in Baltimore for the night.

SeeknDestroy : Khirad…Yep..Ev en I undertood it…:-)

choicelady : Patsy – you have THAT right! As I said – old days!

kesmarn : Hey, Khirad! AdLib’s the mob boss tonight. He just put out a hit on Wall Street. Tell Barack when you see him that we got his back.

SeeknDestroy : They can pool together ANYTHING… give it a AAA rating and sell it to anyone….even the worst garbage ..

AdLib : Hi Khirad!! Did you take back our government from the Repubs while you’re out there?

PatsyT : Cl Lee Iacocca – now you have to put a 0 or two on that salary

Khirad : Thanks, CL. And was that the Taibbi thing, Seek?

choicelady : Hi Khirad! Any time with you is cool!

choicelady : I shut down a guy in a bar (nice place, not a dive – I AM the Churchlady after all) who was parroting the “auto workers get $77 per hour” crap. I said NO – and explained it as a lie of the auto companies, and everyone around me listened and nodded once they understood. Moral to the story may NOT be hanging out in bars, but calm discussion DID work.

SeeknDestroy : I read about derivatives in Rolling Stone.

kesmarn : Yes, AdLib and c’lady. They really are criminals. Bernie Madoff really should have a lot of company there in prison.

AdLib : Myah, you mugs listen to me now! We’re gonna hit these corporations, they’re yellow! They can dish it out but they can’t take it, see? We’ll take them down…then we’re takin’ over their racket!

Khirad : Just thought I’d check in, but can’t stay too long.

kesmarn : E.g. collapsed retirement funds cause people to have to work longer — this shutting out young job seekers. And that’s only one thing!

AdLib : The crook who set up this investment vehicle made ONE BILLION DOLLARS on betting that the house he built to collapse, collapsed. Goldman Sachs should be equally responsible and forced to pay back five times what they stole, ten times even, to investors and the government.

choicelady : When Lee Iacocca got $600 million one year (the Old Days) I calculated it was worth 600 auto workers. He had two houses so he had two washers, two dryers, two refrigerators – and if you’d funneled that to the working men and women, they’d have had 600 of each thing. Which generates riches, and which generates wealth?

kesmarn : I wish we could get people to see the connection to Wall St. crime and the misery it’s caused in their own lives. They don’t connect the dots.

PatsyT : kes, marketing just good marketing

kesmarn : AdLib, you’re on a roll tonight.

choicelady : AdLib – now you sayin’ YOU da Man? Well, could be worse. We LIKE you!

kesmarn : Good points, c’lady!

SeeknDestroy : LOL

AdLib : Kes – Myah! It’s a gangster government now and I’m the big cheese, you get me?!

kesmarn : KQ….come baaaack….

choicelady : kes – I agree. Taxes are paid on AFTER investment income, and the riches they gain in their pockets are spent on high-cost consumption. This money does NOT go into investment. Wall Street is gambling. Unless it is an initial public offering (IPO), NO money you put into the stock market creates wealth. It creates gambling income. Period. They need to prove that the rich use post-deduction funds to “invest” – and it cannot be proven since it is not used that way.

AdLib : CL – I think people get mad when they think someone has stolen from them. Maybe take the fire analogy and add that the insurance company that had to pay out then took the money back from the homeowner to reimburse themselves.

kesmarn : Patsy, I wish I could figure out what produced the profound amnesia on the last 8 years!

KQµårk : Hey you all just checkin’ in. It’s NHL playoff season so I’m fixated on the tube. At least my Devils won tonight. I’ll be in and out. Take care.

kesmarn : You sounded like Pharoah for a minute, there, AdLib.

SeeknDestroy : Agreed, Choicelady…I never fails to surprise me, though

PatsyT : kes, didn’t we just have 8 years proof how wrong that is?

AdLib : kes – I hear that bullshit too, we have to give wealthy people all the money and not ask them to pay taxes because they create jobs. Well, jobs were created under reagan and the top tax rate under him was about 50%. Where’s your savior now, Republicans? Myah!

choicelady : S&D – we have 30 years of brainwashing. (Washed my brains this morning. Can’t do a THING with them.) Reagan did a GREAT job of convincing people government, not corporations, were the enemy.

kesmarn : c’lady, every week I ask the obligatory dumb question. Can you explain more about Lakoff?

choicelady : I am a great follower of George Lakoff – now, how do we ‘message’ this deception from the Reeps?

SeeknDestroy : Inever understood how people don’t see the GOP for who they are..always for management and the rich….never for the workers and the average folks

kesmarn : I’m still hearing the tired old line, though, that “wealthy people are the job creators and when you tax or regulate them in any way, you’re killing jobs.

AdLib : People can understand that. We certainly should promote that analogy. Even Bagheads understand that. Now what would be their defense? Just try to blame it all on the one employee?

choicelady : AdLib – always thought that was THE metaphor (if that’s the right word) for Wall Street!

kesmarn : That definitely works!

SeeknDestroy : Exactly! LOL

AdLib : Actually, the best allegory I heard was convincing people to buy a house you’ve rigged to catch fire then taking our fire insurance on it.

choicelady : S&D – yes! Like the budget!

kesmarn : I smell (literally) another great Dr. Suits poem!

SeeknDestroy : A blank piece of paper

choicelady : PatsyT – you are definitely on to something here. They are deceiving the public about their alliance with corporations!

AdLib : Dr. Suits: “Why would I buy Green Ham from you? It smells quite bad, like an old wet shoe.” “It is not bad, it’s good I swear! The finest shoe seen anywhere!”

PatsyT : I think back on the health care debate and see how the repubs started to ‘set up’ the base with this big government bs maybe it was all about the financial stuff anyway

choicelady : AdLib – sorry had to step away for a moment. YES – I think, with the right messages, this will be the watershed moment where the Reeps show themselves to be in sync with the banks, not the people!

kesmarn : Kinda like putting poison in your neighbor’s tea, taking bets on his imminent demise AND buying a large life insurance policy on him.

AdLib : Ratigan is a weasel. He may be okay in this instance but he is not a good guy.

SeeknDestroy : how do they get away with their constant lies?

HITO : It continues to amaze me how Obama can keep all these items in the air at one time.

SeeknDestroy : I believe the bill they’re trying to pass creates an insurance pool for the banks to bail themselves out….no more taxpayer bailouts…yet the GOP spun it like this will create ENDLESS bailouts…

AdLib : kes – If you just explain it the way I did at the beginning, it’s pretty easy to understand. They purposely put a bomb in a cake, told people to buy it because it was delicious then made a fortune betting that cakes would explode…and the mess splattered all over everyone but them.

kesmarn : Ratigan came to MSNBC from CNBC so he’s pretty sharp on financial issues. But–yes–can be obnoxious. Interrupts all the time!

PatsyT : Dylan Ratigan did some explaining on this today – he can be so obnoxious but he did make sense on this one today-compared them to car sales man

kesmarn : Well, it’s going to be very difficult for the right to defend this kind of activity. That’s for sure. But when you try to explain what G-S did, a lot of people’s eyes glaze over. It isn’t all that complicated, but they think it is.

AdLib : At the other place, I saw some unhinged trolls howling that the real problem today is the “gubmint” having their hands in everything. This is psychotic. These people WANT MORE DEREGULATION! They want the system to be destroyed because Obama will be blamed. Then what? A Repub becomes President and does what?

kesmarn : I’ve been mad at Goldman Sachs for about two years now. Never thought there’d be anything like justice, though!

HITO : Repubs are the kings of deregulation to benefit the people…ha! benefits the corporations.

AdLib : CL – It’s a given that the lemmings, including baggers, will continue to march in lockstep but could this finally turn the majority out there against corps, the Repubs and the baggers? It so clearly exposes them for protecting Wall Street and just hating on Obama.

kesmarn : The T-Bags and Repubs are always gonna blame the Prez. But the few people who bother to try to figure out the Wall St. bad boys are gonna be happy if Goldman and friends are fined MEGABUX!

choicelady : On Olbermann, it was proposed that the Reeps will pretend they are the ones protecting consumers. I think that won’t work.

AdLib : LET’S BEGIN! TODAY WE SAW THE FIRST LAW ENFORCEMENT STEP AGAINST WALL STREET FOR DEFRAUDING INVESTORS IN THEIR SCAM WHICH DESTROYED OUE ECONOMY. IN SHORT, THEY RIGGED A HUGE FUND TO FAIL, SOLD IT TO INVESTORS AS GOLD THEN MADE A FORTUNE BETTING THAT IT WAS GOING TO FAIL. WILL THIS RE-IGNITE FOCUS AND ANGER AT THE REAL PERPS WHO CAUSED THIS OR ARE THE REPUBS AND THEIR TEABAGGING PALS GOING TO SUCCEED IN CONTINUING TO BLAME OBAMA AND THE DEMS?