Slashdot videos: Now with more Slashdot!

View

Discuss

Share

We've improved Slashdot's video section; now you can view our video interviews, product close-ups and site visits with all the usual Slashdot options to comment, share, etc. No more walled garden! It's a work in progress -- we hope you'll check it out (Learn more about the recent updates).

WaywardGeek writes "My daughter is using phrases like 'hot guys,' and soon will have a chat about the birds and the bees. I believe in letting kids discover the world as it is, and have no Internet controls on any of our systems, which are mostly Linux based. However, it's not fair for aggressive porn advertisers to splash sex in her face without her permission. My question is: What Linux-based Internet filtering solution do Slashdot dads favor, and do they hinder a child's efforts to learn about the world?"

Ok, but now you know exactly how to spot bad links and suspicious websites, right? So this is a skill that can be learned.

I say, put the computer in the living room, Teach your damn kid what a red flag for a suspicious link/website looks like, and use firefox/noscript/adblock. Those three things should be enough for 99% of people on the net. Otherwise, she's looking for it.

The truth be told there is some really disturbing content out there on the web far beyond just porn, a lot of content that often I would be quite content to un-see. Content that you would under no circumstance voluntarily want to expose a child to.

To create a suitable basis for children to access the web, you do not filter. Filtering is stupid and virtually impossible in a IPv4 world and in a IPv6 world it is stupid. You basically block the whole of the internet and only allow access to specific sites th

Actually it can happen even for experienced users. A Google search for the color of the plumes of a bird (which my colleagues had found and wanted to know the gender) made me realize there were a LOT of other synonyms for female genitalia that I didn't even know...

If it came up with a porn site, chances are it wasn't a random term. I used to try sometimes to see how fast I could "click" my way from a respectable site to explicit images, by solely using the links on site.

In conclusion it's safe to say that it doesn't happen very often. If you activate Google's safesearch you can't really find any even if you're looking.

It's perfectly normal for kids to be curious about sex. It's up to you if you want to allow them to look at the stuff on the internet. They sure as hel

I have to ask...do people REALLY that often, hit porn sites by accident?

Here's an anecdote for ya: I've been using the WWW since I got a
university account in 1993. As it happens, the first time I accidentally loaded a NSFW page, ever, was... today. (I was googling "LaTeX font color", of all things...)

I agree. I've been cruising around the 'net since around the same time ('93/'94) and I've never accidentally found myself on a NSFW page. I've been rick rolled plenty, but thankfully there are no memes that involve duping people into going to NSFW sites and getting written up by HR.

However, I'm not going to say it's impossible. I know of people that have accidentally gone to whitehouse.com rather than.gov. A child learning about the Internet and trying to do a report on the White House could easily make the same mistake.

I've gone to whitehouse.com in front of ~80 people, deans and other faculty mainly, doing a presentation on Netscape 2 and all the nifty features including domain completion.
"And here you can see I type in 'stanford' and it goes to www.stanford.edu without typing anymore. A handy shortcut. Let's try another, whitehouse, let's see what the president is doi.... aww crap."
Projected on a 50' screen. Lovely day.

I've been rick rolled plenty, but thankfully there are no memes that involve duping people into going to NSFW sites and getting written up by HR.

Really? I've seen more than a couple of goatse links here on/. that were pretending to be something else - I'd classify that as NSFW. It's just that most of us have at one point or another run in to goatse and know to avoid it. And/. is not a place people come looking for porn - I could understand this guy's daughter noticing that her dad has "News For Nerds" bookmarked, wandering in here, and then clicking on a link that would flash some really nasty stuff in her face.

I have to ask...do people REALLY that often, hit porn sites by accident?

I mean, I can count on one hand (I know I know) the number of times I've actually had porn flash up on my browser when I was not looking for it....in all these years.

How bad a problem is this actually? From anecdotal evidence, I'd have to guess if someone has porn on the screen....they were looking for it.

Depends on the situation, the user, etc... But, yes, it does happen accidentally.

You can throw some pretty innocent phrases into Google and get some pretty interesting results. Some torrent search sites, which are very popular for folks looking to download music, have pretty explicit advertising on them. And it's entirely too easy to wind up on somebody's mailing list and get deluged with advertisements for various adult services. Some malware pops up advertising as well, sometimes it is of the adult variety.

Dude, right on! I'm the original poster, and I have to tell you, this is exactly what I was looking for. I've set filter level to 'medium', for malware/phishing and porn. As the kids grow old enough to figure out how to get around it, they're probably old enough to handle unfiltered content.

I hate to sound like an add for these guys, but hey, it's free, and in a few minutes of testing, it blocked 100% of the porn sites I tried to visit, but nothing from wikipedia.org. Search for 'sex' on wikipedia, and you still get a useful, informative site. Search for 'sex' on Google, and not one hard-core porn site is allowed, but metacafe.com gets through. The 'cached' links from Google show hard-core porn thumbnails, though. Not perfect, but way better than I was expecting! Thanks!

I never understood parents that want to filter their kids internet connection. They'll have to live with the fact that the world is a bad place, and they should learn that naturally - not all at once when they turn 18 and you kick them out.

Based on the article, he doesn't think she is ready yet and when she is he will happily reduce the filtering or remove it altogether.

This is exactly the sort of responsible and appropriate response that should be encouraged, by the way. We make our own decisions about what we want censored, and we take action to filter it. No running to the Nanny State and demanding that they protect the children.

There is such a thing as age-appropriate. Children are not born being able to handle all the good, bad, and ugly the world has to offer. As they develop intellectually, psychologically, and emotionally, they'll be able to handle more and more. It's up to the parents to filter their exposure until they can handle different things.

At 4-8, I don't want them seeing porn, ever.At 8-12, I don't want them seeing porn, though I expect that one of their friends may show them some. I recall being baffled by what little porn I glimpsed at those ages.At 12-16ish, I still don't think they can handle porn well, but should have had The Talk by then so at least it's less bizarre.At 16, I expect my kids will be savvy enough computer users to Find A Way to get po

Just my meaningless 2 cents
4-8, fair enough
8-12, kids start talking about it. They should have the talk before they and their friends hit puberty or you will find your words mostly redundant by the time they get it.
12-16, like it or not, if they want it enough then they'll get it, and they'll find a way to keep you from finding out about it most of the time. Though it's fair to say that they should at least be trying to keep it a secret. I was browsing Usenet by 13 and IRC by 14, and there's a lot more

Hey, that was another great suggestion! I'm a bit embarrassed I wasn't already using it. I've not had much time to play with it, but thepiratebay.com has seemed to think I really need to meet a girl living near me for years. Different nearby towns, names, and ages, but always the same girl! I almost feel like I know her... I certainly know all her bathing suits. Now thepiratebay.com has nothing but whitespace where she use to be!

I think I'm happier with both Adblock Plus and a DNS based filter. Both f

The most important thing that you can do is to properly educate her. Obviously don't encourage porn, but you shouldn't need to actually block it. Let her know the rules, and tell her the consequence if she breaks then (no computer for a week). Let her be in control.

The truth is, the best situation is to educate the child enough that they can be trusted to navigate the online world without either visiting porn inappropriately (i.e. w/ anyone else around) or downloading malware. The reality is, you have to educate children while using some protections against their mistakes.

So, teach her about sex, etc. Explain the issues as best you can, and discourage her from visiting it too much (and certainly set rules). But don't pretend she'll never check it out. The truth is, there's no harm in her checking it out occasionally.

Malware, on the other hand, is actually destructive, hence the use of spam, virus, etc. filters. So, teach her about it, hope she doesn't accidentally infect your system, but use tools to support her.

-1, totally missing the point. The OP specifically wants to let his kid explore. However, exploring kids are quite likely to wind up places THEY don't want to be, once they start looking around. I'm sure you can think of a few search terms that might give you relevant, useful information on Wikipedia...but that you might not ever want to type into GIS.
Heck, my reading of the question was more like "How can I let her wander the internet ON HER OWN, going wherever she wants, without having to call me in to close a barrage of pop-up windows".

I second this one. Filterware is a bogus solution in just about any case, as there will always be sites it doesn't filter that it should and sites that it does filter that it shouldn't. The best solution is to put the computer in a place where you can always see what is being looked at.

My son's computer is directly beside mine.

Also, as embarrassing as it may be for you, teaching your children comprehensive sex education at an early age won't hurt them any.

well if you want your kids to learn fast, just grab your favorite open source browser and hard-code the URL so she can only go to Belladonna's website. Make sure you provide her with a credit card too. After a month or so you can rest assured that nothing on the internet will really shock her anymore. Then you can set her browser back to normal.

If he wants a filter that is more difficult to bypass by the child, Privoxy is pretty handy.

Well, he specifically said he doesn't. He said he "believes in letting kids discover the world as it is" and that it's not fair for porn advertisers to display sex "without her permission," he didn't say his. I think that means he wants her to be able to bypass it if she wants to, but doesn't want her to be exposed to things she's not specifically looking for.

My ex keeps trying various filtering software to keep my eldest son {age 14} from viewing porn... with pretty predictable results. One Google search for a workaround, and he's back in business.

I was more than amused when she tried to complain to me. "Gee, son, follow the rules" was what came out of my mouth, although I couldn't keep from smiling. "Way to figure it out and disable it so you can see what you're so curious about!" was what was going through my mind, though.

With those two in place she will never see a dirty picture she didn't look for. More than once I have recommended a site (usually a hacking or cracking site) to a friend and had them remark on how much porn advertising was on the site and all the porn popup ads. I hadn't even realized it because I was using AdBlock[er] and NoScript and wasn't seeing any of that.

What he said, but with slightly more detail. Use Adblock Plus [adblockplus.org] and (assuming you are in the US), subscribe to EasyList, which now also blocks (well, technically just hides) ad elements... formerly you had to subscribe to EasyElement as well.

I never, ever see porn ads because I've got Adblock Plus installed in FF. If she prefers IE for some weird reason then just put an ad-filtering web-proxy on your network like Junkbuster [junkbuster.com].

Redirect all outbound connection attempts on port 80 through your router to that proxy and you'll be good to go. That way she won't have porn ads splashed in her face but she'll still be able to Google for hot guys [google.com] with SafeSearch turned off:).

Just change your DNS servers to OpenDNS (http://www.opendns.com/ [opendns.com]) and register your IP with them. You can use their category-based filtering to block the pr0n. Block adware, malware, and phishing while you're at it. Oh, and enjoy a faster DNS service and extensive stats pages. If you are worried about a dynamic IP from your ISP, don't be: most ISP's preferentially reassign IPs to customers instead of switching it up. Happy censoring!

I'm a big fan of OpenDNS. It makes my browsing faster than dealing with my ISP's overloaded DNS servers, and allows me full control over my network. For safety reasons, so far I have blocked NBA.com, and I occasionally block perezhilton.com, just to piss my girlfriend off.

As far as "filters" for kids - I grew up with a liberal(ish) mother who taught Sexual Education courses for a while. I was exposed to all of her programs, from "abstinence only" to "safer sex" and everything in between, and to be honest, what I learned from that level of exposure is that the BEST defense is a good offense. Teach your kid the values of sexuality you feel are healthiest and know that no matter how much you try to keep them protected from exposure to "bad" things, they are going to find those things on their own, one way or another. Giving kids the proper tools and knowledge on how to deal with the "bad things" is far better than trying to protect them with any sort of shell.

If she is, you need to have a talk. Not porn=bad because that won't work. Rather: porn=unrealistic. And that she needs to understand that much of what she will see is the result of payment to foolish and desperate people.

Oh, and build up her self-esteem. That is the critical factor in teen girls getting into situations they're not ready for.

Your kids are gonna find out. Accept it. The right approach is education. And not retarded "well, ya see, when a boy and girl really, really like each other" education. Real education. And approval thereof. Tell them about condoms. Tell them about birth control. Tell them about a pumpkin-sized blood-covered creature ripping out of the girl's crotch leaving behind so much damage that the doctor quits using stitches and opts to replace everything with a steel plate.

Sure, we weren't filtered, because there was no internet to be filtered when we (most of us, at least) where growing up. I was born in the mid-70's, my parents had to worry about me somehow getting my hands on a skin mag or betamax video (both of them non-easy propositions), whereas these days there's more porn you can shake your stick at just a click away on the internet.

Other than the nitpick (this is slashdot, after all), I fully agree on education. I intend to educate my children - I don't want them t

Your kids are gonna find out. Accept it. The right approach is education.

If theoriginal poster is like me, he's relatively OK with his kids looking for pictures of naked people, once they are of an appropriate age. We're realistic to recognize that there's not a thing we can do to completely stop a determined seeker. However, the primary concern was prevention of accidental stumblings. There are many terms which your child might want to search for, and that you don't want them to find. Imagine if your d

My question is: What Linux-based Internet filtering solution do Slashdot dads favor, and do they hinder a child's efforts to learn about the world?"

It may go against conventional wisdom on Slashdot, but filters don't particularly hinder a child's efforts to learn about the world. If there is something that they want to see, they can ask you if it's ok and you can unblock it. That's the 21st century version of the way that parents used to do it. Part of being a parent is being a gatekeeper. Some information your kids just need to be largely innocent of until they become adults. It's one thing to know that the ugly side of the world exists. It's another thing to take few measures to stop your kids from participating in it out of curiosity.

Being Linux, you're likely using FireFox or one of it's builds (eg. Debian's IceWeasel). I recommend the AdBlock add-on, and possibly the NoScript add-on as well. In the process of blocking ads in general, AdBlock's going to get most of the porn ads as well. Set up bogofilter for e-mail filtering and you'll quickly get all the spam (including all the porn spam) diverted into a junk folder (Thunderbird has similar filtering built-in with it's junk-mail flagging feature, I use bogofilter mainly because I alternate between Thunderbird and Pine as my mail readers and want the junk-mail filtering to happen regardless of which one I'm using at the moment). That should take care of the majority of the problem. What's left will be search result spam, and those are mostly obvious from reading the result without having to visit the site to find out.

Filter out the obvious stuff. You won't stop a dedicated teen from finding what they want, but you can try to stop them from getting things they don't want that are inappropriate.I have a daughter and a son, and yes, knowing there will be a day when my kids are looking for 'Hot [Gender of choice]' scares the shit out of me.

it's not fair for aggressive porn advertisers to splash sex in her face without her permission. My question is: What Linux-based Internet filtering solution do Slashdot dads favor

Instead of using a filter maybe a hosts file [wikipedia.org] would work better for you. Google [google.com] has a number of results where you can download one. Basically what they are are files with URLs and IP addresses that are directed to the local host. If you try to go to pornadvertizing.com it will look for it on your computer. It's easy to add and r

Setup a proxy that uses a whitelist. You should be approving every single site she goes to. It'll be annoying for a little while, while you add all the sites she regularly goes to, but after a while each time she asks for a new site, it'll be a good opportunity to talk to her about what she's doing online.

I've been a single father for most of the past sixteen years. I did hardly anything to screen out offensive material when my daughter was younger. Not only that, I let her have her own computer in her room, so I wasn't there to watch over her shoulder either.

What I did do was set up transparent proxying through Squid on the Linux box that runs as our house firewall so I could scan the logs from time to time and see where she was going. She knew that her usage was being logged, but beyond that I did nothing at all. In reality a much bigger problem than porn was the extent to which supposedly kid-friendly sites actually contained a large proportion of drive-by installs mostly for advertising crap. I ended up with a Squid acl list largely composed of places like atwola.com and Gator. I never had to add a block for any site containing pornographic or other questionable materials. After a couple of rounds of cleaning this type of junk off her (then Windows) computer, I decided the only solution was to block it at the router. These days she uses Ubuntu, so adware is much less of a problem.

The bigger problem actually began when I let her have an email account (indeed she owns her own domain). Despite years of experience scanning email for myself and my clients, it was still impossible to keep the occasional attached gif from getting through. Unfortunately these tend to the more disgusting end of the porn spectrum; I would have been less disturbed by her seeing more conventional sexual behaviors. The couple of times this happened she mentioned it to me and said she had deleted the offending message immediately. We had a talk about not opening messages from people you didn't know, but often a graphic will show up in the message preview windows (in Thunderbird in our case) without any active choice by the reader.

Now I only have the one girl, so I don't know how generalizable this experience might be. I do know that, at seventeen, she harbors little or no interest in porn and had, if anything, even less interest in it at 11-13. If she were male, the story might have been different. However my attitudes about her Internet usage were consistent with the general degree of freedom I permitted her in other realms of life. She always had a lot of freedom and today seems much more mature and self-disciplined than some of her friends and acquaintances who grew up in stricter households. I'm proud to call her my daughter.

My daughter is using phrases like 'hot guys,' and soon will have a chat about the birds and the bees

Since there isn't always a clear red flag to let you know the absolute last minute you can put that conversation off, you should get it out of the way when the time is approaching. Procrastination here is not a good thing.

By the time my parents worked up the nerve, my school had already provided me with good sex-ed. I think in some respects I knew more than they did, which was kinda funny. Correcting your parents during this chat just makes them turn different shades of red and purple. Not many schools do that though, but if you wait too long you too may get to experience that.

The worst thing you could possibly do is to try and block her attempts to get to content she really wants to get to.

However blocking accidental is really easy: remove IE if you haven't already, install Firefox if you haven't already and get the Ad Block Plus addon and subscribe to the EasyList USA blacklist. Ads.. what are ads?

now... just be honest and straight up with her about the birds and the bees.. and if she wants to look at stuff.. well she is going to look at stuff. It's not unhealthy, despite what our unhealthy prudish sexually-repressive culture wants to say.

(OMG! my 10 year old saw a titty on a movie! he's going to be a mass murderer now!)

Caveat: I am not a parent YET, but don't expect to change my opinions on this by the time i have kids of that age.

He's just looking for an ad filter, he's clearly stated that he doesn't want to censor the internet.

Good for him too, I started online at the age of twelve in 94' (NCSA Mosiac FTW!) and eventually figured out how to setup a USEnet client. Abpe.* and all its life lessons (women do that with horses??) followed. I made a bit of money by selling those lessons on floppy disk at school too, it was a step above the random porn mags that seem to litter all the woods in this country!

A parents job is not to shadow their children around 24x7 for the first 18 years of their life, that is just absurd, and part of the general "paranoia" that our culture seems to be cultivating right now.

A parents job is to establish a safe environment in which their children can grow up in, and learn how to be an adult in.

Why is it such a strong meme in the slashdot community that it is ok for an adult to use adblock to protect him or her from obtrusive advertisements, but doing the same thing for a child is either censorship or abdicating parental responsibility?

I'm not saying that children should live in a perfectly sanitized world, but there are only so many times that you can say "That's a porn site, dear, just ignore it", before you want to install adblock.

It's this funny thing about being a parent... you see, you have other things to do than be your child's content censor all day long. I'm a single father of four, and I also have to do things like cook dinner, help my other children with their homework, clean, go to the bathroom, etc. etc. If I were to attempt to monitor my children's Internet usage like you demand, they would get to use the Internet... oh, around 15 minutes a week. Maybe.

Now, maybe in some elevated sense of the word I "ought" to be able to watch each of my four children like a hawk, all the time. But I can't, and a bit of content filtering allows my kids to get the benefits of Internet access without me having to be a content Nazi.

(And before you criticize me for having four children, originally my wife was a stay-at-home mother, but she died of cancer. So frankly if you want to blame me for having too many kids you can go to hell. There is something sick about a society that insists on a level of public depravity that makes it impossible for parents to have enough children to even maintain its population.)

I can say with certainty that I sincerely doubt I was damaged in any way by getting the birds & bees understanding at the tender age of 3. In fact, I suspect that I ended up with significantly healthier attitudes, because when my classmates were going gaga over boobs I was more wondering what the big deal was.

"The innocence of childhood" is a concept used to protect parents from the thought that their kids are going to grow up and have sex. It has nothing to do with protecting kids, and everything to do