As a Native American, Sam must help his grandfather make it to the reservation to die in peace. But the town sheriff is out to stop them and the old Indian's granddaughter wants him to be kept safe in a nursing home.

That was a great episode! I am not sure of the reason why I very rarely watched QL in 89-93, if ever, but I'm guessing because of the show "Full House". But, even in the early years of that sitcom, I wasn't watching. I can't remember that part of my life back then since I was 6 in 1989. *sigh* Such a shame that I was too young to get into Quantum Leap- the greatest scifi/drama on Earth!

I loved all the native american mysticism and all the native american humor ("I love it when they beat the Cowboys! Go, Redskins!") but also loved the scene when Joseph says he can see it in Sam's eyes that he's killed two men. Which would be accurate at this point in the series - Roget in "Honeymoon Express" and Nicky in "Her Charm."

but also loved the scene when Joseph says he can see it in Sam's eyes that he's killed two men. Which would be accurate at this point in the series - Roget in "Honeymoon Express" and Nicky in "Her Charm."

That the thing didn't Trojan's brother in "A Portrait for Troian" died too,after Sam jumped at him and they both fale into the lake?!it Seemed to me that Sam and Trojan were the only two people,who survivd there...

Anyway to the episode itself - the first half of the episode were great.I really enjoyed it,but the rest...I found the last 20 min. or so disappointing. it's seems like the episode lost something in the way. maybe a big part of that was all those little jokes of Joseph,which i found,after the first 4 or 5 jokes, annoying.

That the thing didn't Trojan's brother in "A Portrait for Troian" died too,after Sam jumped at him and they both fale into the lake?!it Seemed to me that Sam and Trojan were the only two people,who survivd there...

You're right that the brother died, but he drowned. Sam didn't kill him. Sam stabbed Roger on purpose, and shot Nicky on purpose. When the brother fell into the lake, Sam failed to save him, but I don't think that counts as killing him.

I liked the way they didn't cop out with a happy ending - Sam barely fulfills his mission and his crying at the end is heartbreaking. But my favorite moment is when Sam whips out his bucknife, grabs the Sheriff's hair, and is totally ready to scalp the guy. The look on his face is awesome.

I wasn't crazy about this episode when I first saw it (mystical minority storylines usually bug me), but when I re-watched it, I realized that Joseph was consciously playing up the TV-and-movie "Indian" thing, like when he does the fire chant and then pulls out the lighter.

__________________

School's out! Remember, behind every loose ball there is a running child.

Well Sam did shove Jimmy into the lake as he ran for Troian (knowing Sam Jimmy was likely just in his way, it was not a purposeful thing), but it was not Sam's fault that Jimmy did not learn to swim and thus be able to stay above water. So techniqually that death, Sam can not be blamed for.

How do you know Sam didn't try to save Jimmy. The scene cuts from Sam coming to the surface with Troian to them on the shore with the police. We don't know what happened in that time period and whether or not Sam did or didn't try to find Jimmy. Without that in-between knowledge, you can't really say what did or didn't happen.

Well Sam did shove Jimmy into the lake as he ran for Troian (knowing Sam Jimmy was likely just in his way, it was not a purposeful thing), but it was not Sam's fault that Jimmy did not learn to swim and thus be able to stay above water. So techniqually that death, Sam can not be blamed for.

That excuse would never hold up in a court of law. You can't just go around shoving people in the water and saying, "Oh, gosh, I didn't know he couldn't swim." Everyone knows a pond is a drowning hazard.

I don't recall the details of the scene, so I don't know if it was an accident or if Sam intentionally shoved Jimmy into the lake. Either way I think he could be charged with manslaughter for causing Jimmy's death. But this isn't a court of law, it's a TV show, so we can give Sam the benefit of the doubt, meaning it was probably an accident.

Anyway, back to "Freedom." I really, really dislike this episode. The only good part about it is that they give Joseph a chance to talk about his philosophy. The spectacle of Sam running around stealing things, shooting at people, dragging a very sick old man up a mountain on horseback in the winter--just ridiculous. I know the old man is the one who instigated all those things, but it's just not believable to me. If they really wanted to do a cowboys-and-Indians shtick, they needed to set the episode before 1900, and they can't do that.

They could have done an episode about the real American Indian Movement that was happening in 1970, a contemporary, realistic story, instead of this attempt to revive a past that was gone.

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when I re-watched it, I realized that Joseph was consciously playing up the TV-and-movie "Indian" thing, like when he does the fire chant and then pulls out the lighter.

That was one of the moments I liked, genuinely humorous and something I think an Indian might do.

Well Troian was under for a pretty long time so he probably needed to give her mouth to mouth or something to help her breathe again which would have made it too late for him to jump back in for Jimmy because he'd probably already be dead.

Eaither way though I don't think Sam would have felt that he deserved saving he was a bad guy. And before you say "But he saved the bad guy in The Wrong stuff" I am going to beat you to it, in that case Dr. Winger was not really a bad guy his eyes and heart just needed to be opened. Or thats my opinion anyway. Whereas Jimmy felt he needed to kill his sister to pay off a gambling debt which is just plain evil and who's to say that Jimmy was even supposed to be saved? It seems to me that that would just contiune the problem and thus give Sam a new job. Much like Her Charm when Sam got Danna through her expiration time but he only managed to change it because the bad guy had to be dead for her to be fully saved. This seems to me like this would have been a simular case in which the victum can not be declared safe until the bad guy is dead.

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Originally Posted by Snish

That excuse would never hold up in a court of law. You can't just go around shoving people in the water and saying, "Oh, gosh, I didn't know he couldn't swim." Everyone knows a pond is a drowning hazard.

Yeah but in this case the victum is guilty of attempted murder, he deserved to die and it was possibly the only way to save Troian. It was done in someone's defense so therefore Sam is not guilty.

btw sorry I know you wanted to get back to the subject at hand which is Freedom but your post beat mine I was typing this first to respond to Julia. so
lol.

Okay, isz, I just went and watched the scene (sheesh, the things I do for my friends). Grandfather says the handprints signify "men killed in battle." Jimmy wouldn't qualify, as that was, at worst, involuntary manslaughter. Roger and Nicky definitely merited handprints.

And now the DVD is sitting in the player, calling to me.

__________________

School's out! Remember, behind every loose ball there is a running child.

There are different degress of killing. Manslaughter is a lesser degree than murder. Here's a legal definition of manslaughter which explains it's difference from murder

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MANSLAUGHTER - The unlawful killing of a human being without malice or premeditation, either express or implied; distinguished from murder, which requires malicious intent.

The distinctions between manslaughter and murder, consists in the following: In the former, though the act which occasions the death be unlawful, or likely to be attended with bodily mischief, yet the malice, either express or implied, which is the very essence of murder, is presumed to be wanting in manslaughter.

It also differs from murder in this, that there can be no accessaries before the fact, there having been no time for premeditation. Manslaugbter is voluntary, when it happens upon a sudden heat; or involuntary, when it takes place in the commission of some unlawful act.

The cases of manslaughter may be classed as follows those which take place in consequence of: 1. Provocation. 2. Mutual combat. 3. Resistance to public officers, etc. 4. Killing in the prosecution of an unlawful or wanton act. 5. Killing in the prosecution of a lawful act, improperly performed, or performed without lawful authority.

The provocation which reduces the killing from murder to manslaughter is an answer to the presumption of malice which the law raises in every case of homicide; it is therefore no answer when express malice is proved and to be available the provocation must have been reasonable and recent, for no words or slight provocation will be sufficient, and if the party has had time to cool, malice will be inferred.

In cases of mutual combat, it is generally manslaughter only when one of the parties is killed. When death ensues from duelling the rule is different, and such killing is murder.

The killing of an officer by resistance to him while acting under lawful authority is murder; but if the officer be acting under a void or illegal authority, or out of his jurisdiction, the killing is manslaughter, or excusable homicide, according to the circumstances of the case.

Killing a person while doing an act of mere wantonness, is manslaughter as, if a person throws down stones in a coal-pit, by which a man is killed, although the offender was only a trespasser.

When death ensues from the performance of a lawful act, it may, in consequence of the negligence of the offender, amount to manslaughter. For instance, if the death has been occasioned by negligent driving. Again, when death ensues, from the gross negligence of a medical or surgical practitioner, it is manslaughter.

What Roget and Nick Kochifas did (or attempted to do) would most likely be classified at First Degree Murder

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first degree murder n. although it varies from state to state, it is generally a killing which is deliberate and premeditated (planned, after lying in wait, by poison or as part of a scheme), in conjunction with felonies such as rape, burglary, arson, involving multiple deaths, the killing of certain types of people (such as a child, a police officer, a prison guard, a fellow prisoner), or with certain weapons, particularly a gun. The specific criteria for first degree murder are established by statute in each state and by the United States Code in federal prosecutions. It is distinguished from second degree murder in which premeditation is usually absent, and from manslaughter which lacks premeditation and suggests that at most there was intent to harm rather than to kill.

Ah ok I didn't realize before, thanx for that Julia.
In that case Jimmy is likewise guilty to Sam for attempted manslaughter because he very nearly threw his sister into the lake WITH knowledge that she can't swim because he wanted her dead. So I think Sam's case would win over his. He deserved to be killed.

Ok so I will go ahead and proceed to say some stuff about Freedom then sorry fo keeping it so off topic.

I liked this episode, the ending is really really sad but I really liked the Josoph and his very wise knowledge. I loved the whold lecture he gave Sam about the grasshopper leaping out of one skin and into another and that life is a series of leaps. And I also really liked the whole thing we have been talking about that led off topic with the hand prints on the horses, and how Josoph saw in Sam's eyes how many handprints he needed. Its so suspicious, I really think that some part of him detected Sam but not as Sam of course just some white man that appears to be traveling. To me its a very moving episode.

I just want to say now, that we should keep it on topic now I am sorry I was keeping it off I just had a few views to share I had only intended that first post on the Jimmy thing I had not meant to lead this thread so off topic. This is why I got back on the topic in my last post I was hoping to re-birth the Freedom conversation as is supposed to be held here.

If the off topic discussion contiunes than this shall be my final post in this thread as I want to be respectful as well as staying out of trouble by keeping myself away from a potential scene. I dislike argument anyway, I prefer cooperation to confrintation.

Ok so I just have to mention this. I watched Freedom today with my workout and I cried at the end, I forgot but the end of this episode always gets some tears out of me, and poor Sam who seemed to grow to love Josoph like his own grandfather, he taught him so much. He even tells him that he wants him to stay alive becuase there is so much he could learn from him, and I don't think he was speaking for the grandson, I think that was Sam's big warm heart speaking.

So Yeah I even had to cease my workout a few seconds early because I was crying to much I could not contiune. Poor Sam.

Oh, I totally agree!!! This is one of my favorite ones. I start to choke up when Sam is yelling at the sherriff at the end, before they cross the river. I love's Scott's acting in this one, and the script itself is great - makes you laugh and cry, and Joseph twisting things in a funny way, not to mention the wise things he says.

I really enjoyed this episode. It's another really humaine story. And I also love how Joseph seems to look straight through Sam, or does he? I love that question remaining open. And Sam tries to think with his head being the doctor, which does aid Joseph , and being reasonable and logical and ends up thinking completely with his heart at the end. Nice. Yeah I usually cry when Joseph dies

There is some elements that didn't quite work for me, not sure why maybe the "baddies" weren't really convincing me. And something else mainly about the second storyline, I'm not sure what, I'd have to look at it again, maybe something about the way it was shot... not sure.