Well, the #1 position hasn't changed, but it isn't as high in % as it was previously which is always good news. Suprised that scraggy has jumped up to #5, though and that croagunk usage has declined even with mienfoo top dog.

Murkrow is steadily climbing to no-one's surprise.

I'm surprised that dwebble and snover are sitting as low as 19 and 20, both are very good in today's meta and need more usage.

Nothing is too surprising. Ferroseed seems higher than I thought it would be while Dwebble, Taillow and Houndour are lower than anticipated. Also the ~10% usage gap between Mienfoo and Misdreavus is hilarious imo.

Otherwise, the stats are pretty much expected. Mienfoo's on top, and Missy is number 2. Nothing weird really, though I agree--Snover and Dwebble NEED more usage. They're monsters in today's metagame. Dwebble especially--it's almost guaranteed to get up at least Stealth Rock and Spikes.

Otherwise, the stats are pretty much expected. Mienfoo's on top, and Missy is number 2. Nothing weird really, though I agree--Snover and Dwebble NEED more usage. They're monsters in today's metagame. Dwebble especially--it's almost guaranteed to get up at least Stealth Rock and Spikes.

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I struggle to reconcile the use of Dwebble, who does not get multiple opportunities to set up Stealth Rock, in a metagame where Staryu is number 4...

In a metagame where Misdreavus is number 2, and where Dwebble and Misdreavus are an amazing pair? Yeah--I've never had issues with Rapid Spin...ever. Dwebble just leads and sets up two layers, maybe even three. Or, it sets up on Hippopotas, any slow wall, even Misdreavus if Sturdy is in tact. It can threaten Murkrow, etc. With 16 Speed, Sturdy, and a lack of concern for Dwebble's well-being, you can easily set up every match.

Pretty much what blarajan said. Though I've been finding frillish is actually a good stop to staryu, even with thunderbolt. Just run cursed body and you can spin-block it all day. Dwebble can also run shell smash and stealth rock very effectively on the same set, letting it always get up SR and often kill something too.

Am I the only person who uses Buneary? Because it sure does seem like it. Its movepool is simply massive, and can effectively run multiple sets because of it. Just look at the Smogon page for it. 4 different and all completely viable sets, for a pokemon that gets only .410% usage? Yep, Buneary is that good. For what it lacks in U-Turn, it makes up with versatility.

Am I the only person who uses Buneary? Because it sure does seem like it. Its movepool is simply massive, and can effectively run multiple sets because of it. Just look at the Smogon page for it. 4 different and all completely viable sets, for a pokemon that gets only .410% usage? Yep, Buneary is that good. For what it lacks in U-Turn, it makes up with versatility.

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Buneary doesn't have the stats to validate usage over Mienfoo, the other Fake Out + item remover combo (it uses Knock Off instead of Switcheroo). While Buneary's ability is niche, it's actually pretty debilitating after you Switcheroo as you don't get the Eviolite bonus, either, so you have really not gained much from that trade (especially in a Pokemon whose late game options are extremely limited). In terms of having four viable movesets, the analysis is pretty out of date and merits another look at; while all of the other analyses seem decent in theory they fall to many of the Pokemon that quickly OHKO Buneary. This problem is compounded by the abundance of Fighting-types in LC.

Buneary doesn't have the stats to validate usage over Mienfoo, the other Fake Out + item remover combo (it uses Knock Off instead of Switcheroo). While Buneary's ability is niche, it's actually pretty debilitating after you Switcheroo as you don't get the Eviolite bonus, either, so you have really not gained much from that trade (especially in a Pokemon whose late game options are extremely limited). In terms of having four viable movesets, the analysis is pretty out of date and merits another look at; while all of the other analyses seem decent in theory they fall to many of the Pokemon that quickly OHKO Buneary. This problem is compounded by the abundance of Fighting-types in LC.

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Of course, Buneary has its counters. And it may seem superficially outclassed by Mienfoo, but really, they serve two different purposes. Buneary cripples a pokemon with either Choice Scarf or Flame Orb, as well as removing Eviolite. Mienfoo only gets rid of it. Buneary isn't meant to stay in as long as Mienfoo. It usually uses STAB Fake Out, and then just switches out if it has crippled something already. Lack of U-Turn hurts though.

Perhaps it's not the greatest pokemon, but it deserves much more than just 0.410% usage. That doesn't seem quite right.

It's probably the result of the overcentralization of Smogon LC around a few pokemon with massive usage though. Try some new things, people.

It's probably the result of the overcentralization of Smogon LC around a few pokemon with massive usage though. Try some new things, people.

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The stats really don't agree with this. We will always have our Mienfoo's and Misdreavus', but there are more than 30 Pokemon at more than 5% usage; that is, you will see more than 30 different Pokemon fairly often (at the very least, 1 in 20 games). In comparison to the Gligar era, the meta is extremely balanced. Saying an inferior Pokemon is low in usage (in this case, Buneary, who must sacrifice Eviolite, U-turn, offensive bulk, and attack power to attempt to do a role kind of like Mienfoo, but as you wisely pointed out, it's technically a different role as it can't do as much for the team) does not an overcentralized metagame make.

In other news, iss and I did try Healing Wish Buneary way back when which was pretty fun, essentially giving you like 2 Drilburs or Scraggys on your team. Of course, you really could use any Healing Wish user @ Choice Scarf, but....

Agreeing with Ray Jay. While there definetely has been over-centralization in the past, gligar's ban has actually put a good stop to this. There are a lot of viable things in LC, and there's lots left to be discovered in this massive tier, but due to a low player-base, there is only so much we can do to discover new threats while still keeping a viable team around it.

I've had trouble using Shelmet, actually. It's hard to use a wall that's SR weak in this meta, and although Shelmet has had success in the past as a mixed wall, holding its own against Chinchou and Staryu, it can't keep up with Misdreavus, the premier special attacker, nowadays at all. Still has some great typing for a Spiker though. What do you guys think?

Ooh Drifloon. Amazingly underrated pokemon. Counters Mienfoo all day, Acrobatics hits extremely hard, and now Unburden makes you faster than every other pokemon in the metagame. Feel free to sweep, or play mindgames with their Stunky with Destiny Bond. Always takes down at least one pokemon every game, just make sure you make it count.

Well, from the point of view of a Beta LC Player, there's so many banned stuff flying around there that it seems overcentralized to me. Relatively, of course.

lol i've tested drifloon and it isn't actually very great. It can be an extreme pain to get in safely and set up safely, it's frail as fuck, most things taht it is supposed to be able to switch in to at least have one SE move (mienfoo stone edge, croagunk shadow ball/sucker punch/dark pulse, ferroseed carries twave which fucks you up, etc)

Well, from the point of view of a Beta LC Player, there's so many banned stuff flying around there that it seems overcentralized to me. Relatively, of course.

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I'm a little curious what you mean by this, actually. Before we banned Gligar, for example, its usage was multiplicatively higher than anything here, demonstrating more overcentralization then here (obviously not "beta" LC, but a good example nonetheless). Furthermore, I just don't see the stats to back this up... do you have any solid facts other than your opinion that could quantify overcentralization? I'm sorry, just trying to understand your argument.

In terms of the Drifloon debate, I think my post in Duo Destruction shows the effectiveness of proper team building in using Drifloon. With something such as Scraggy, it can become incredibly difficult to stop but also limiting on the other team. Chieliee alluded to this; suddenly, to have a chance against Drifloon (who isn't really appearing in a wealth of battles) Mienfoo has to run Stone Edge (admittedly, this does also give it an edge against Larvesta, however). My point is that there is enough variety in the metagame to keep even very common Pokemon, such as Mienfoo, on their heels and unable to check as large portions of the metagame as they would probably like to.

I mean, the metagames for Beta and Smogon are completely different because Smogon has a whole bunch of threats Beta doesn't. From what I see, there looks to be some overcentralization, but you people that actually play in Smogon LC would think different.

Didn't notice that. All the months before though have seen it sit around #8 and 9 so I guess it's safe to say it's stabilising.

Natu is used because it's just a great pivot and is extremely useful on offensive teams rather than having to pack a cleric, spinner, status absorber, etc. on to the team. You can't really compare natu with things like drillbur or timburr tbh as they have completely different roles.