Posted Oct 1, 2010

There have been many recent examples of married men ‘caught’ in Sugar Daddy affairs. Bishop Eddie Long, Tiger Woods, and many other well-known husbands have had their sugar relationships brought out into the open recently.

Holly Hill, author of “Sugar Babe,” says she practices “negotiated infidelity,” allowing her partner to enter into extramarital sexual relationships as long as he does so according to the terms of their agreement.

Many Sugar Daddies and Sugar Babies practice negotiated infidelity with their partners in marriage.

Yet some marriages can’t withstand a spouses venture into the Sugar Bowl …

Here’s one married Sugar Daddy’s response to the topic of married Sugar Daddies leaving their wives for their Sugar Babies. David Montrose says:

That is a risky situation. It’s no news to anyone that the married SD has the most to lose. Then, why do they do it? Because it is exiting and exhilarating. Maybe he is stuck in an unhappy marriage, maybe he has been married for years and has a family. He can’t divorce, because he still has some sense of love and loyalty to his wife, and couldn’t see her get totally hurt.

So it is likely he is caught in a life and a mindset of contradictions. And when he finds himself alone in a quiet time, he may be thinking about all these things and feeling particularly vulnerable. Unless, of course, he can compartmentalize the various aspects of his life, really carefully.

I had a friend once in the SD lifestyle who was able to do just that. He was a really wealthy corporate executive, who just separated the various aspects of his life really effectively, to the point where it was normal for him to have a mistress for a very very long time, and at least on the surface, he did not seem to feel guilty at all.

It helped, of course, that his business needed him to travel constantly between LA and New York. So he spent half the week with his wife in LA, and then a few days every week with his mistress in NYC. He even bought an apartment for his mistress and he gave her a large enough allowance each month that she didn’t have to work. So he was wealthy enough to live the something close to a ‘bi-gamist’ lifestyle. Funny enough, whenever I told him he was that, he got offended. I guess compartmentalization only goes so far.

Would a married SD leave his wife for his sugar babe? I am sure some have, but in general, the answer is a clear ‘No’. And why? It is one thing to cheat on his wife, or to seek a bit of thrill or the companionship of someone younger and more attractive. Yet it is something totally different to find the motivation and cause a life changing event. Does the SB have so much more to offer, physically and emotionally, for him to go through the emotional and financial hardship of a divorce? With a good divorce attorney his wife can take him to the cleaners on adultery, irreconcilable differences etc. So the answer again is “No.”

I have met a couple of SB’s during my time in the ‘sugar life’ that became so attached to their SDs that became disillusioned enough to think that the SD would keep seeing them forever and always have them in his life. They were eventually disappointed a few months or a year down the road. SBs shouldn’t forget what made their SDs like them in the fist place: good looks, caring enough about someone to give them an allowance, but many times it is the thrill, novelty and seductiveness aspect of the whole situation that trumps everything else. Once that wears off, and it always does eventually, game is up. Of course, the above may not hold true for a SD who is single. That, could possibly lead to a marriage. But here, we are talking only about married SDs.

I find the lyrics of this song about a woman going after a married man very very interesting, because they show how many women think:

Damn she get to have it everyday What a lucky girl Oooh Well tonight I’ll take her place I’m a lucky girl

But I really believe that in the end, the love of his life , i.e. the wife, ‘warts and all’, will always get her man in the end. Maybe a bit jaded, or roughed up, and maybe a marriage that will not be the same ever again, but I don’t think that man would leave his wife for an SB no matter how sexy and thrilling the experience may be. After all, this is just an NSA fling, and a meeting of convenience, no matter how long it may last. As always, this is just one man’s opinion …”

What are your opinions about Sugar Daddies leaving their wives for Sugar Babies?

364 Responses to “Should Married Sugar Daddies Dump Wives For Their Babies?”

pawansays:

Hi I’m Indian boys

Eleganteksays:

Question ! I’ve got a pot date on the 2-4th of Nov, but I’m not sure what to wear ! I’m going to a very chic Sushi spot in the heart of Dallas, but should I do the semi casual jeans and heels or the dress with heels ? I love dresses but would hate to be overdressed . :/ And from an SD view, how do you like a womans hair most ? I depend alot on mens opinions more than a womans .

So,this is my first time posting to the blog but I keep up with conversation often…So far I haven’t had any luck finding any suitable SD’s on this site.I’ve used other site in conjuction and still havent had much luck…I have met one serious pot SD with whom I started getting comfortable with,but the relationship ended unexpectedly after I accidently left an earring behind… (I knew he was married prior) but he was great nevertheless,young,vibrant,successful……First date was exceptional….I live in Baltimore,MD (From NY,in undergrad here) and he’s an executive in DC.He had a limo pick me up and drive me to his location in northern Va,he even sent $500 ahead of time so that I’d have adequate funds to get my hair and nails done….it was lovely.Not to say that this will always be the norm,it’s just a great example…..I arrived at his home ,he made me feel comfortable,gave me our agreed allowance upfront (3k) and then he drove me to DC and I had the best steak of my life at the Four Seasons Georgetown….what a first impression!!! I was glad that I went with my intuition because I’ve had many offers but he was the first to reach out sincerely.We texted for a whole week prior to meeting (I’m shy on the phone at first)…I’m a Senior in college and I turned 21 this past July so this is definitely out of the norm for me.Overall,It was a great experience….but in rol these things dont happen very often.i wish I still lived in NYC because I would have better luck meeting a pot SD,there are a few by me in DC but most are a bit older and are from “old money”.I want to find someone I can really connect with is there any thing so wrong with that??

Michael AZ Alleycatsays:

New blog subject!

NC Gentsays:

SG2 — I have never been one to negotiate an arrangement either.

Miss Ivy — I wouldn’t recommend doing something that you are uncomfortable doing. If you are interested in exploring that type of world, I would read up on it first. Not judging, but I know nothing about it. However, I am guessing that it may require a higher level of trust and communication.

I’m a unexperienced sugar baby trying to get into the bowl. Just a quick question.. Should a sugarbaby avoid BDSM relationships in the sugar world? I’m submissive by nature but am unsure of what I’m actually getting myself into. Anyone experienced in these sorts of relationships?

Profile Number 536883

Lilysays:

Oooh the Filthy Richmond blog is hilarious!!!
I think I suddenly enjoy & appreciate Bonnie/Spiritual much more! Hurray for satire!

SouthernGent2- if you meet a lady who seems really charming & genuine and her availability is slightly off from your desired meeting schedule and/or her tuition/loan-repayments/whatever-her-needs-are is a different sum from the exact amount you offered, you won’t even consider trying to compromise or work together on a possible synergy, despite ample chemistry otherwise?

SouthernGent2says:

As NC said above, I do not like to be referred to as a sd either. Nor do I want to call things an arrangement. I do like the friends with mutual benefits term.

One other thing I have changed is how I approach any “negotiations”. This is a 180 for me, but I have found I am happier this way. I just tell someone I meet what I can give, and how often I can see her. I do not deviate from that approach. And I tell a girl if she wants to negotiate, or make things seem transactional, then I will not be interested. I really don’t care to hear the comment “i am worth x amount”. I will just move along.

Maybe that limits my opportunities even more, but I feel better with this approach. And frankly I find that most will still be interested due to the bird in the hand theory.

Dandelion Winesays:

Yaz, Spiritual Baby used to post under a different name and I think she then changed the name in jest and started trolling
Google “filthy Richmond” for another example of fine satirical socio-economic commentary (not that Spiritual Baby’s writing is fine, but she is getting there!)

Great day here too – a little warm but lovely. I have been doing well. I donated a car to charity once — less painful and more rewarding than selling it. Grad school sounds great!

Yazsays:

Hi NC! How are ya? It is a gorgeous day over here

Going apt hunting in a little while. I am also donating my car to charity in a couple of weeks, so I am switching back to being carless lol
It will be hard but I am thinking about all the money I will save for grad school next semester ( My car is very old so it was getting incredibly expensive to keep it on the road) . Besides walking and running after the bus will keep me in shape haha

NC Gentsays:

Hi Yaz! I have chosen to ignore a particular blogger because the posts are just so random and incredible!

Yazsays:

Dandelion wine~ Yeah I thought about that as well lol. How does one go from being ok with 1K to not wanting anything less than 10K or go from paying her own plane ticket to go see someone to only wanting a man with enough $$ to invest in your business and on and on and on….I am so freaking confused everytime I read Spiritual Baby’s posts o_O

Yazsays:

Excuse the typos in my previous post. Didn’t realize it was so long!

Yazsays:

BiBaby said:

” I would like to get up to a $3k range so I can stop searching for a 2nd one and concentrate on school…but is this a bad idea? Maybe just leave things as they are for the first few months? ”

You have the answer to your own question right there. If I were you, I would wait at least a couple more months to see how everything goes.
You are not a “bargain” because guess what you are not an object and you are not up for sale to the highest bidder. You found a great SD and everything seems to go well so far, why would you want to risk losing him by appearing to be all about the $$$ after only one meet?

You said the man is a widow meaning he has not as many responsibilities as a married SD would have so he could start looking for another SB if he wanted to. He could also start asking for a lot more of your time that you might be willing to give. Or he could just agree to a revised allowance/meeting arrangement and just….poof on you.

Also, the swimsuit model comment might make some SDs think that you feel “entitled” to more $$ just because you have the looks. Many SDs have complained that SBs, epecially younger ones, always ask for higher allowance amounts just because….well just because they are hot lol

I, personally, respect and admire any woman ( young or old) that takes care of her body. It takes the right amount of diet, excercise and self discipline to maintain a gorgeous bod and if you are a former swimsuit model I am sure you are very hot and would have no problem finding a SD.

However, do not make your SD feel as if he SHOULD give you more $$ because you are too hot to be only getting 2K per month plus gifts. At least, give him some time to appreciate and crave your company and realize what a wonderful SB you are. I am sure after a certain amount of time he will have no problem raising the allowance since he will realize that you are totally worth it

If I were her, I’d also hang back on bringing up this stuff for a month or two, and when things are going very well otherwise, ask that question.

NC Gentsays:

I read the posts this weekend, and I don’t really like being called a sugar daddy or benefactor…. we need to coin a new term… my first SB said we were friends with mutual benefits — which I guess was shortened to friends… any other good terms?

Lily – I agree. But raising this immediately after the first meet could ne perceived as chasing the $$. Just tread carefully that’s all.

Lilysays:

I don’t think that BiBaby was contemplating asking for more cash to be added into the arrangement, but renegotiating the whole thing to be near weekly get togethers instead of about every other week, and a bump in allowance along with her bumped time commitment.

What if she asked him, “It turns out my schedule is going to be more open this autumn/winter than I had thought! the arrangement ideal for you, or would re-thinking the frequency in which we see each other as well as appropriate allowance be something you would be interested in & open to?”

no? Maybe? Gents?

Hey BiBaby – I am with SD Guru. You have a great connection with your SD, let it run for a while. You say he is generous, you like him and it is working well. And you are just one meeting into the arrangement.

If a new SB came to me after just one meeting, and tried to re-negotiate because she felt she wanted more, that would set off a big red flag for me, and would cause me to not trust her too much. It would be all about the money and not about the connection.

Over time, as things progress, you could probably raise it and discuss exclusivity, which is what you opined, in return for more $. But leave it for a while, or you may risk alienating or losing him. Tread carefully.

NC Gentsays:

BiCBaby — to provide another perspective that will hopefully help you make your decision. How would you feel if your SD was contemplating how to maximize the sex from you for the allowance you had agreed upon? I am guessing not very well. Also, can you imagine if an SD posted here — what do I do to get the most amount of sex for the least amount of allowance? I recognize that there is a business component to the relationship, but it shouldn’t be about maximizing how much you can extract from your sugar partner.

Bicentennial Babysays:

On the subject of a masquerade ball, I’d be game, I have a FABULOUS mask and headdress from my Queen of Mardi Gras costume that would totally work! Ah, ah excuse to wear it…

Regarding allowance?

My SD and I are proceeding with arrangement and both of us had a terrific weekend, so I know it’s not going to be a poof and gone (finally!) p4p type situation….I’m very happy about this but equally having doubts about my allowance range. He wanted to do 2 or 3x a month for 2k plus gifts, and I was initially fine with this but I am starting to think I really only want the *one* SD so I would be able to see him maybe 3-4x a month instead.

So I am left wondering if I should bring this up? He offered 1/2 the month’s allowance up front and everything went great, and we are hoping to see each other in a little over another week…so by default, it may end up a higher frequency. He is widowed and so there is no wife involved. He has been fine with shopping each time around $100 or so…not a gift allowance per se, but a consideration nonetheless.

Is it a fair thing to ask to move to a higher range if I can increase the frequency at least 1 and maybe 2x a month?? I would like to get up to a $3k range so I can stop searching for a 2nd one and concentrate on school…but is this a bad idea? Maybe just leave things as they are for the first few months?

I don’t want this to come across to him wrong but on the other hand, I am starting to wonder if being in the under $3k category maybe I am a “bargain”…and that thought is abhorrent to me. Those who have seen my pictures know I am a former swimsuit model so I know I can command a decent range. Yet I also realize that a 3k allowance is $36k after taxes for the SD or the equivalent of $50,000 in earned income (minimum) to afford such a “luxury”. So looking at it that way, it seems unreasonable to expect the sort of money Spiritual Baby says we all should unless you’re seeing your SD at least weekly or more.

Thoughts?

@aspiring-docOh I know shame on me…..hes tricked me into dating him

Here’s what I wrote about your situation a month ago: “My hunch is that he is not who you thought he was. Perhaps he was hoping to charm his way into making you his girlfriend (ie free sex).” I hate to say I told you so… But having said that, there is no shame in ending up with a boyfriend if you think that’s what you want at this point in your life. There is a time and place for everything, and the sugar world is not for everyone.

@PinkyThough we were in vegas I found people making more obvious looks in our direction. One older man, looked to be in his 40s, was so disrespectful to my SD. Luckily my SD didn’t notice.

Some men are more observant than you think and I doubt that your SD didn’t notice. Here’s what I’d do. If my SB and I are getting unwanted attention from a guy, I’d give him the “don’t you wish you could be me” look. If we’re getting unwanted attention from a woman, I’d give her the “don’t you wish you could be her” look. Remind me to write the story in my blog about a similar situation I had in Vegas.

Here’s a theoretical answer: The truly wise ones wouldn’t be facing banishment in the first place. By the way, when you figure out how to be detached from the outcome, then your white knight syndrome has been cured!

@Bicentennial BabyIs it a fair thing to ask to move to a higher range if I can increase the frequency at least 1 and maybe 2x a month?? Maybe just leave things as they are for the first few months?

Sounds like you’re putting the cart before the horse and about to make a common mistake newbies make. It’s the “now that I’ve found a real SD, how do I get more out of him” syndrome. I’d suggest that you give this sugar relationship some time to develop and grow. And if it’s still going well then you can talk to him about increasing the allowance/frequency and see if he’s open to the idea.

I am starting to wonder if being in the under $3k category maybe I am a “bargain”…and that thought is abhorrent to me…

This is another common mistake newbies make. It’s the “of course I’m worth more than that” syndrome. If you have an arrangement that you’re happy with, then it doesn’t matter what category you think you’re in or whether you’re a “bargain”. OTOH, if you’re not happy with the arrangement, then why did you agree to it in the first place?

So looking at it that way, it seems unreasonable to expect the sort of money Spiritual Baby says we all should unless you’re seeing your SD at least weekly or more.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but I’d suggest that you rely on those who are more experienced in this blog.

yaz i love that idea! perfect for sa types! and so new york. thats a party i would go to.

elegantek–email me through my blog if you would like, re finances

UncommonSBsays:

@Yaz – Funny thing is, I just made 2 masquerade masks about 2 months ago. I got various jewels, paint, glitter, feathers, etc. I even bought a mold and made the actual masks too! Not for any specific reason or event, I was just feeling crafty and wanted to try to it. The NY masquerade ball would be the perfect place to finally wear one. Too bad I’m in AZ or I would totally go. Being so far with no friends or relatives to stay with would make it a substantial expense.

By the way, I love the idea of a masquerade ball. Sounds fun. Perfect time for lurkers or shy SBs or SDs to attend a SA party. All you need is a cute mask and you are set! lol

UncommonSBsays:

@Midwest – Hi chica! If I recall correctly, you had an SD around the end of the year? How’s that going?

@NYGent – I too was waiting for the story about the one who stayed in your residence to end with some tragic theft of valuables or heirlooms… thank goodness that didn’t happen! No slack intended, just remembering the old stories from several months ago. Music to every SB’s ears about drinking champagne out of Choos, but perhaps you’re more into the chase. You’ve had several crushes, yet keep picking the ones you know will never work out?

@Alleycat – I ‘kinda’ get what you’re saying about not caring. I’ve usually been the ‘guy’ in most real relationships… go with the flow, shy away from marriage pressures, and I need several days a week where I don’t have to talk about how my day went (sometimes being able to not think is necessary) when I get home from a hectic day. If a relationship works and adds more fun/relaxation to my life than stress, I go with it. When the tables turn and I start to feel smothered or that my independence it being compromised, it’s time to go.

EleganteKsays:

Thank you Midwest & Carebear ! I’ve heard refrences often to keeping a “log book” on my ventures . I think I’ll start tonight . (: Midwest, what do you mean by skeleton profiles ? If all goes well, he is giving me an advance on my allowance, and will deposit the rest later, but I have no clue about accounts and banks . I really tend to shy away from banks, I don’t like not having a handle on my money, so when I open one, where should I go that wouldnt be suspicious of money being deposited in my account by more than one source? I’ve heard of that problem but I’m not sure if it would apply to my situation or not ? Safer than sorry. I love the advice. It makes me feel more confident walking into all of this ! I appreciate it. (:

aspiring-docsays:

definetly- on good news- super easy test today- might make up for that appalling 63% last week.
I wonder if i turn my heater on and close my eyes i can pretend im in Fiji? brrrr…….. im so cold n tired- stayed up all night studying

zzzz bedtime

a-doc – take it from me… the perfect sd comes along when you least expect it… hang in there

aspiring-docsays:

@stormcat- Im not sure ive followed the story of the sugarbaby you cant cure yourself of But the charm of the kiwi woman is totally understandable ;). We are of course the ‘creme de la creme’ ;-).

@spiritual baby: bipolarness happening here? You were talking about a 1grand car in an earlier post and how excited you were- now u wont settle for less than 3k a month? -sigh….Loving people love despite hostility. Its the ability to love inspite of adversity that makes you ‘loving’. Similarily: Im not nice because Im nice to people who are nice to me, Im nice because im nice even when people are nasty.

In sugardaddy news- I dont know. they are all coming out of the woodwork , just when I’m not sure about it!!
i have a date thursday, hes given me a gift or two via mail…..and is a generous man. I guess ill meet and then make a decision.

Hope everyone is well im very jealous that its hot over there- im FREEZING!

haha … no he is still my best friend… and i want to keep him that way… but if his tequila company ever takes off there is a 20k per month job as his advisor there 😀

Alleycat – Now you have really presented an inigma. Having three glasses of wine. A bottle of wine is four glasses. If I am alone and reach three glasses, four is inevitable. If I am sharing the bottle then two is my half. Someone must really be wise to drink three!

What Michael said. The wises ones do not let whatever society or any group of people decide affect them. So yeah, “being banished” will not disturb them one bit.

Hi Midwest! I am breathless but not because of quarter end… seems like I might have *possibly* done it again.

Let me explain… I met a young professional about a year ago on a regular dating site. For one reason or another we had a great date then but never pursued it further (probably because I was focused on SD dating rather then regular). Anyways, he is working in hotlanta now and maintains a residence in NYC. So he was here this weekend and I decided to meet up with him. Since I have been working a bunch and needed some fun.

Well, last night my wife and I decided to meet him and his friends for drinks. He covered everything for us (wasnt much, we were bar hopping so he did what he was supposed to do). We finally made it home at 5am where he kissed me… and it was one of those magical, passionate, full of chemistry kiss. Left me breathless

Anyways, this morning was my first day off work so I decided to meet up with him and have brunch. We went to an awesome brunch place, had some mimosas, held hands… it was cute. I told him that I was going to get a mani pedi after he leaves since his place is across the street of the nail salon. (same one that we went to when you were here)

We bid our goodbyes and I go for a bit of pampering. Well before he took off for the airport he came to the salon for one last kiss (awww). As he left he spoke to the receptionist for a minute and then left. The receptionist told me that he had paid for the mani/pedi and gotten me a massage and a facial. Sounds like the making of a gift SD to me 😀

The wise ones turn it into a positive….polio into a vaccine, disaster into community pride and philanthropy, revolution into the Constitution.

Goodnight sugars!

OK theroetical question . . . When faced with banishment:
The stoics hold the course, The existentialists accept and embrace their situation, The fatalists commit suicide, The romanticists cut off an ear and throw it into the sea, The insane . . . well they’re insane, The anarchists start a revolution, The Buddhists meditate, The lawyers appeal, The rich laugh, and The common simply suffer. But the wise ones . . .?

@Stormy – re being detached from the outcome.

I have found that the outcome is generally going to be what it is, no matter how I try and influence it. This is particularly true in relationships, less so in career. As a salesman, I always had a vested outlook in the outcome of a large transaction!!

In relationships, if I behaved as I normally would, and acted true to my beliefs and philosophies, the outcome was going to be what it was NO MATTER how I tried to influence it. What always happened was that if I liked somebody, and I really wanted to go to bed with them or whatever, the other person would pick up on that, feel the pressure, and would generally back off. So – wanting something had the effect of driving it away. Wanting a specific outcome almost guaranteed that it would not happen.

If I am detached from the outcome, I don’t really care what happens. At all. And in one of life great paradoxes, I do care, deeply. But I am not attached to to it. By being detached, people no longer feel pressure, no longer feel pushed away, so they are attracted to you. And you end up getting more than you would have before!!!

My business coach put it thus: “I care deeply about each one of you – your health, happiness, security, development, family, in fact I care about everything you think, feel, say and do. But do I give a sh*t about you? Not a chance.”

The other thing is that since you no longer have investment in the outcome, you are no longer judgmental. Generally, people assess a situation or person, judge it, determine a desired outcome, and then do what they can to achieve it. If the outcome is no longer important, then the assessment and judgement is no longer relevant. People no longer feel judged, they lighten up, they open up, they trust you.

The beauty of it all that I have found is that I have developed some very close relationships with people I would not have previously. It is a tough thing to get your head around, but when you do, it is great.

Example – a friend confessed to me recently that she had been in juvey (juvenile detention) for 6 weeks when she was 16. I laughed and said “that’s great? wow, how was it?” She was so scared that I would be judgemental, that she had avoided revealing a key part of her youth, and who she was. When I laughed, she started laughing, told several funny stories about it.

Part of it is self-confidence. I am not tied to what other people think of me. I don’t judge people, and I don’t care if they judge me. That’s their problem. I am concerned about my character, not my reputation. I am not going to run around after people and ask “what do you think of me?” Who cares, I don’t. I used to and it caused me problems. It totally frees you up from all the crap that we are fed by friends, family etc.

As an aside, the reason I got so bent out of shape re last SB (the Canadienne who lied) is that I started to think about life together with her. I got attached to the outcome. It fell apart, and I got burned, big-time. Totally my fault, but a very clear example.

As a second aside, on the blog I think that Carebear is there. DandyWine is getting there.

Sorry for War and Peace. It is a fascinating subject to me. But do I care if you read it and like it? Well, yes, and no. 😉

carebear: in the past i rarely responded if not interested. due to comments from bloggers i now tend to respond with a polite “thanks but I don’t think we are a match” or similar phrase, at least if i get a longer, personal email. I tend not to respond to the one liners, e.g., “call me.”

The toughest ones, which I really hate, are when the SB has no pics on her profile, so I ask for pics, and if I’m not interested upon receiving her pics then what do I say? It’s why i really think SBs should put up clear pics in their profile if they possibly can. It’s not always possible due to privacy/discretion concerns, but it does really cut down your chances, or lead to potential awkwardness, if you don’t.

Yaz and stormcat…thank you for your replies, i agree with both of you. was just wondering if i wasn’t following some sugar ettiquette by not replying. some peculiar folks on these sites.

stormcat-which lake? was just up in litchfield area playing golf but am now back in fairfield county. it was gorgeous today! but cold tonight =( dislike!

elegantek-just as midwest suggested, nycsb has an entry on her blog about managing traffic in an orderly fashion. as well as several other entries on handling people and presenting yourself. not that i’ve read her blog cover to cover or anything…. =)

Midwest SBsays:

Oops, hit submit too soon. If you have had good communications before your first meeting, then you both will have some clear expectations going in. Let the first date be a “get to know you” date without the pressure of sex or allowance discussions…say this in writing or on the phone so he is CLEAR. If you feel like you want to move forward, let him know and work towards finalizing it after.

Midwest SBsays:

EleganteK – Screen the profiles and pick the top 10 (or whatever number works well for you). Eliminate the one-liner e-mails and skeleton profiles (at least for now). Look for red flags that suggest someone is looking for a girlfriend/wife and for those who seem too arrogant to treat you like a lady. That tends to bring the numbers down quite a bit. Some ladies keep a spreadsheet (hidden) to help them keep track while starting out. I’m sure NYC SB and a few others can help with ideas as well.

EleganteKsays:

Question . I’m still new, but as of now, I’m having an email boom. How many men should I stay focused on right now seeing as how I don’t have the hang of things ? What should I expect on the first date from him (Not material)? Is it wrong if he wants to discuss the arrangement on the first date if we hit it off well ?

Midwest SBsays:

Gracious!

Lurkers and newbies – Please keep the art of being a true SB alive and well. Follow the advice of those who have a true understanding of “mutually beneficial” arrangements and have demonstrated success well beyond the basics and resist the temptation of quick money. The effort you put into it will always be worth it!

Uncommon, Pinky & Yaz! So nice to see you again!

Torrin et al – I’ve enjoyed the term “lady” and “gent” simply because I don’t feel the need to delineate any further.

GESB – Congratulations! Sounds like you are on the right track as a “true SB”! Sounds like he is incredibly generous and genuinely appreciates you as a lady. I’m so happy for you! I, too, am returning to school at the ripe young age of 43 and I’m excited! It’s not as if I don’t have enough going on already! We glow when our plans and dreams start to come to fruition. I’m so happy for you!

NYC SB – Are you breathing under all that quarter-end paperwork? Miss you!

Muse – We could have had an amazing weekend together

We have had absolutely perfect Fall weather this weekend…wish it could last a lifetime!

Gorgeous day here too. Right now I’m in CT. I went to Boston about a month ago and never returned home. I just limped off to CT and rented a house overlooking the lake. Swans flew in last week and keep gathering. I guess they’re preparing for the migration south. I wish I was going with them. I guess I’m a snowbird at heart. Anyway the night isn’t so cold here as you describe it being there. Perhaps you should start a fire!

Well my french sucks but phonetically it’s cum si cum sa!

Yazsays:

Hey Stormy! How’s everything?

Hi Yaz

Carebear please do interupt!
The answer is that if you want to write back and say thanks but no thanks you are under no obligation to explain yourself, your situation, your additude, your reasons, or your justification for saying no. Just “no thanks” will suffice. In fact if you don’t feel like writing back at all, that’s okay too! I don’t think that posting a profile obligates you or anyone to answer any and all inquiries.

SD Guru Thanks for your recent words of sanity. They helped a lot more than I can say.

Hi Lily
I”ve missed you! Sorry I haven’t been around much lately.

Perhaps being detached from the outcome is about finding truth. A scientist conducts an experiment to determine truth. The experiment is designed around a theory, variables are identified and controlled. The principle of the throry is elucidated. And the key experiment is designed. The scientist himself should have no personal interest in the outcome. The results are the results. The truth is revealed. I understand!

But what is the funding for the scientist’s work hinges on the outcome of the experiment? Do we then find truth?

Alleycat
“Being detached from the outcome is extraordinarily powerful, plus it is very attractive to other people. They flock to you. But who cares? Because you are detached from the outcome …. v v v powerful, trust me on this one.”
This is the most profound comment that I have encountered in a long time. I have always known this but never understood it. Untill you stated it this way, I always thought that detachment from the outcome was a matter of ability to act. I mean as an actor. As pretence! It never occured to me that someone would really not care about the outcome if he were truely vested in the situation. So either the person is acting or the person has no interest. I am a bad actor. If I invest in something or someone, I can no longer remain detached and I cannot pretend to be disinterested in the outcome. I realize that I lose my power. But, If I am detached from the outcome, so is the outcome and the other parties involved detached from me, and there is no meaning?

Hahaha. If i didn’t like my SD, I might flirted, because they guy was pretty good looking.

Belasays:

Happy Sunday Sugars! I am SO sorry to hear about the negative vibes on the sugar dates.

pinky-how awkward. you maintained your cool much better than i would have. i hate when people stare.

whenever i get looks when i’m on a date, i make a show of it. i play with the waiters and pick on the guy im with to see if they will laugh along with me or respect him and keep a straight face. its fun. thats if the date is going bad and i don’t care…..

but when you’re with someone you like and respect like your sd, i understand….you were being defensive of your sd since you were concerned with the other guy making moves. thats sweet =)

Torrinsays:

@Pinky, I live in Las Vegas. It is a great town for a man to live. Generally a gentleman can openly have a mistress, exotic cars and over the top watches without having the public disprove. However there are visitors from everyone here, some are uncouth and ill-mannered. Some of this comes from from being narrowed minded but most of it is envy. Ignore it, don’t give them to power to make you uncomfortable.

Don’t assume that your Sd wasn’t aware of the tourist. Some of us have learned not to acknowledge the presents of small people. I just like ignoring a fly.

pinkysays:

Hi Midwest and the rest of the Sugar Family! Been out of the loop for a bit. I hope you are all having a great time in the sugar bowl.

I agree, I like the sound of a mistress better. Yet again, my SD is single so I guess I’m just a Sugar Baby.

So I got back from Vegas thursday night with my SD. He was exceptionally generous on this trip, catering everything to me. Retail therapy with a mix of entertainment, spa treatment, galleries and gambling, can’t get better than that! And the most interesting part about the trip was how we have become closer. In addition to his financial support, It really feels nice to know I have found someone else who honestly cares about my well being, meanwhile is determined to help me succeed at whatever I want. I’m even more excited about our trip to Europe in november now! :).

Though we were in vegas I found people making more obvious looks in our direction. One older man, looked to be in his 40s, was so disrespectful to my SD. Luckily my SD didn’t notice. We were having dinner and the guy glances over at me as he walks by our table and smiles. I automatically smile back because I always smile. Anyway, the guy then wouldn’t stop looking at me and even paced near our table pretending to be on the phone. Whenever I looked up, he would give me a huge smile. At one point he started walking to our table, but fortunately stopped. Luckily my SD was busy talking about his many stories. Weird.

OMG! Sorry to be off topic, but I was just looking at some SD profiles and found one who put a side shot of his naked bum up! Holy wow! That made me giggle! In a totally non judgmental way of course.

Green Eyed Sugar Ladysays:

Torrin, JustPeachy, and Deardaddy,

I’m glad I’m not the only one who prefers the “traditional” language…. I don’t think it’s an accident that I have had-far and away- the most successful relationships with men who do business in the East (Japan and China), other places where mistresses, and in the case of Japan, geisha are a common and accepted part of the culture.

I have had to wade through a lot of less than ideal experiences to find someone who understands and is looking for the same thing.

MAYBE…maybe…..im not very good at commiting…it scares me.
dating is easier- its not so commital and no physical expectation.

is it time for a sugar exit? shall I or shant i

A-doc’s got a boyfriend, A-docs got a boyfriend …. !!

aspiring-docsays:

@ spiritual

“””I really have to hustle to make these dates happen. I am very open to giving tips if you email me, but if you say – I don’t have time for that! – then you really don’t have time for this whole scene. You are going to have to work hard for what you want, you know?””

No you dont have to hustle. Once you get good at sreening- it takes an hr or two over dinner to hash out details. Its less time consuming than working to pay school fees.

I dont have a sugar daddy atm- had a couple conversations with men who sent amazon vouchers for books as a ‘thankyou’ but I’m not sure if i want a boyfriend or a sugar daddy anymore.

I had dinner with mr.coin last night at a beautiful restaurant on the waterfront. He is quite a sweetheart and sometimes I think I misjudged him….. He may not be sugar daddy material because all his money is tied up in multiple houses…but he could easily get back on track again. and he really cares- he went to give me rent money last night and I actually declined…hmmmm

BUT money isnt really a big deal with him.
Oh I know shame on me…..hes tricked me into dating him 😛

@SpiritualBaby
– “Rent, water and phone were all due, so after I paid my bills I texted him.”
– “I did show Kevin this ’84 Mercedes – $1000 or best offer! – that I would really love to have.”
– “He also claims to have met Jenna Jameson, who is on my top five list of most admired women.”
– “Better than night after night, sitting across the table at a freakin’ Red Lobster, Olive Garden, or some honky steak pretending that I’m impressed…..”

Nothing like aiming high, is there. 😉

*expense

spiritual baby-why would anyone be emailing you for tips if you don’t have enough money to pay the rent, and can only get $300 out of your dates?

and i have yet to hear anything positive about your business….you constantly refer to its ‘expensve’ but there seems to be no profit if you’re sleeping with someone to pay the electric….1 out of 10 small businesses fail. maybe its time to pack up your bags and turn off the lights.

actually, it seems like they’re already turned off.

Bicentennial Babysays:

Dear Gawd, I hope she’s NOT moving to DC….but then again, maybe it will make my job that much easier by comparison…

And I don’t even understand how you can say in one paragraph you’re insulted by an offer of $300 as too little and in the next complain you turned down an SD because he didn’t understand you were seeing him for *him* and it seemed too much like a “john.”

Make up your mind, which one do you want?

@NY GentAt 7:40 she texts, “sorry babe running late.” I respond what is your ETA? No response, no show.

Oh boy, here we go again! You knew I was going to ask… How old is she? And did you schedule a backup date as I suggested before? If she eventually gets back to you with a lame excuse, will you give her a second chance?

@Dandelion WineI definitely wouldn’t consider it safe to go have drinks with someone I don’t know very well

I have never come across a pot SB who considered meeting for drinks as “unsafe”. For all I care she can drink mineral water or juice and it won’t matter.

As I’ve mentioned before, the first meet serves 3 main purposes. (1) will he/she show up as planned, (2) will he/she be as advertised in the profile, and (3) will there be compatibility and chemistry to take things further. Anything else that happens is a bonus. Meeting for drinks in a casual setting, or coffee or lunch, should accomplish those goals. Save the dinner for a second meet if things go well.

@GESL

Thanks for sharing! Sounds like you’re in a “perfect” NSA sugar relationship that has long term potential. What more can a SB ask for?
@Bicentennial BabyThis SD is a wonderful, sweet person and I never once had a fear or a twinge of concern during the evening.

I’m glad everything worked out and I hope your sugar relationship will last. You trusted your gut instinct and it served you well. Just remember that next time when you’re not sure about something.

—————

As usual, SpiritualBaby’s posts speak for themselves. I don’t think further comments are needed.

SpiritualBabysays:

For the record – I’m moving to the east coast in a couple of months, so I am not in a position where negotiating an allowance makes any sense. I’m just going with the flow, hoping that I will find a real gentleman who can help me get set up in DC. I think Dick might be the one! He said that he never invests less than a million, but that he would just give out of his pocket for me if we hit it off…..He can give me a 10K allowance so I can move and buy a house (which would be my headquarters/shop/studio/etc.) He understands that this is the arrangement I seek…..until then, the bills have got to get paid and if I have to hustle a bunch of 2-3 week affairs to make it happen – great! I’ll be a millionaire very soon and then these dorks can be like – Remember me? The sugardaddy who got you to where you are? I’ll say – Actually, I was banging every dude in Dallas back in the day. Who the heck are you? (And again, for the record – I’m not banging them all, just one or two a month…..I like sex…..gotta get my fix every couple of weeks, you know?)

SpiritualBabysays:

What are your opinions about sugar daddies leaving their wives for sugar babies?

How often does that happen? I mean, the whole point of a married sugardaddy taking on a mistress is so he can have his cake and eat it, too. If he were to leave his wife for the mistress, then he has just thrown away the very thing he had worked towards. It really wouldn’t make much sense.

Have you ever met a sugar who you would change your life to be with? How far would you go?

I moved from TX to Chicago to be with my sweetheart, but he was not married. We were just evolving towards a live-in thing. We had both been married before, so we decided that it wasn’t what we wanted between us. I called him my “fiance” because that is how we felt towards each other. We were in love and we wanted to keep it fresh forever. No “wife” label for me – sounds too much like a chore!

I don’t think I would live with a sweetheart in the future. If he can’t afford to hook me up with my own pad, then he can’t afford me! But I would be monogamous – that’s as far as I’ll go.

How has your sugar life been lately?

Entertaining! Last month at a glance –

Mike: Swept me off my feet! Partied at the Ritz Carlton on our first date, took me out for a $500 plate of sushi – freakin’ blew me away! I’d never had it this good. We just hung out and he actually gave me over $700 on our first date, just so I could pay my rent on the first. We set up a date for Oct 3rd. That was fun, but I left a little disappointed. I had been really into him and I wasn’t pursuing anyone in the time between the dates. But then he acted like a freakin’ john! I wasn’t hanging out with him to get paid for sex. I actually liked him.

Mike was married with kids. I think a lot of guys just use the sugardaddy sites because they want to screw around on their wives and they are too cheap to pay a hooker. It sucks when a guy treats you like less than a hooker, you know?

Next! Wayne – This was an old (crusty) 69 yr old guy. He claimed that he had been celibate for eight years. I don’t know if I believe him. I was at a convention and he offered to get me a room for a couple of nights. We had lunch on Monday and dinner on Tuesday. He bought me a couple of dresses and a pair of (cheap) boots (because I wasn’t really prepared to spend a couple of days away from home). He drove me home on Wednesday and we hung out at the casino for a few hours.

Rent, water and phone were all due, so after I paid my bills I texted him. I said – Ouch! My bank account is down to less than $300! He offered to send me a check. How much? Freakin’ $300! For real! $300? Seriously!!!!

He invited me to vend at one of his conventions at the end of the month. I’m really looking forward to it, but that’s it. Looking forward to vending! Jeez! Make my month! If he thinks I’ll hang out with him afterwards, I’ll have to say – No, thanks. Just go to backpage and save yourself $100.

I am not an escort! So, if these stupid boys don’t offer me four digits (not only do I have bills, I also have many business expenses which they are fully aware of) all I can say is – You can afford to keep me. Please do not disturb. I am very busy seeking a real sugardaddy and all you are doing is wasting my time.

So, again – Next! Kevin – We’re just hanging out. He’s more of a F buddy. He leaves on Wednesday. I won’t be waiting for him or anything. He’s just helped me out with a couple of lunches and a dinner. He also paid my electric bill, but for pity’s sake! My church can do that for me! But my church won’t lick me where it counts, so I’m obviously going to enjoy my life before I go begging to some church for a couple of bucks.

I did show Kevin this ’84 Mercedes – $1000 or best offer! – that I would really love to have. He actually took the number down and is going to ask his mechanic friend about it. Now, if that comes through, he may move from friend to daddy. He has a girlfriend and is in an open relationship. He just uses the site to get some action. A man can only be the man he is, so I don’t blame him. I’m just having fun, too.

One more sweetie – Dick (great name!). He’s a financer and he is very interested in investing in my business! We are going to meet next Saturday. I’m crossing my fingers…..maybe he’s the one!

Oh! And there is Andy – He is down in Houston (I’m in Dallas). We really hit it off on the phone last night. I sell natural skin care products – the Dallas Cowboy Cheerleaders are my spokesmodels! – and he sells very fine Italian lingerie. He also claims to have met Jenna Jameson, who is on my top five list of most admired women. So far so good with this one!

I welcome all comments. Please send them to: savonen at yahoo

For the newbies – I really have to hustle to make these dates happen. I am very open to giving tips if you email me, but if you say – I don’t have time for that! – then you really don’t have time for this whole scene. You are going to have to work hard for what you want, you know?

I’m also getting extremely frustrated. But why give up? What other options are there? I have had a lot of experience with other dating sites and threw in the towel. I will only date sugardaddies. But even in the sugar scene I am still finding that you have to kiss a lot of toads…..oh well! At least the bills get paid! Better than night after night, sitting across the table at a freakin’ Red Lobster, Olive Garden, or some honky steakhpretending that I’m impressed…..

Torrinsays:

JustPeachy,

I liked a lot of your profile. I suggest that you drop the grandson paragraph. A Pot SD suddenly envisions you on the first dated gazing across the candlelit table then pulling out pictures of your grandson. Save that until you become friends.

The photo of you reclining on the rock is attractive, drop the tie-dye one it adds weight that just isn’t there. You have great legs and a cute butt, replace that one with a better photo, same view.

@Torrin:
I like that terminology a lot: benefactor and mistress. As well as the ‘European’ style mistress/married man type of relationship. Have blogged about a few of those on my blog/diary

Bicentennial Babysays:

@JustPeachy1955,

Hello to my fellow sugar sister…checked out your profile. You have great legs BTW! You definitely have a body much younger than your chronological age..but I also believe you’re only as old as you feel on so many fronts. (of course my SD is 68, but he proves my point–age is only a number).

I like your profile, I would take out the part about your grandson and moving…that’s stuff you can let people know once the screening process/emails take place. I have 2 children but don’t discuss them except to say “yup, I’ve had kids”. I try to keep sugar and family separate, and not just because I’m married.

I wanted to see what you look like without glasses and your hair up? I bet you would look very elegant with your hair up in a chignon and with maybe the proverbial “little black dress” and some sexy red lipstick and tendrils softly framing your face? I think you could appeal to the romantic side very easily. I will be honest, I don’t like the tie-dye shirt photo, it’s not flattering to you. You have a terrific figure, show it off baby!

Anyone here will tell you I’m a big proponent of the “glamorous” makeup look in at least 1 or 2 shots, being a former swimsuit model and such…I just think it helps our SD’s picture how we’ll look sitting across a candlelit dinner across from them, while everyone’s staring with envy at their good fortune! I had just such an experience last night and it gave *me* a thrill to know my SD was having such a rush from the attention…I love to make him happy and wouldn’t want to deny him that fun being out in pubic together!!

So be sure to let potentials know just how sexy (not slutty, that’s different….) you clean up so they can’t wait to see you in person on their arm. I think more is less when it comes to sexy, i.e. a long sleeve sheer shirt can hint at ones’ curves in a more alluring way than just a tube top, if you get my drift. Even if you have to wear glasses, take some pics as if you have contacts as that will help your potentials see how pretty your eyes really are. 😉

Good luck!!!

@ Green Eyed Sugar Lady

I think the term ” mistress ” suits me better as well. So I’m with Torrin on that idea. It brings up all kinds of provoctive thoughts in my head heheheh. Maybe I should change my nickname to reflect that LOL

@ Bicentennial Baby

The board game is a great idea for an icebreaker! I love it.

@ Any of you who are good at critiquing.

If some of you would be so kind as to look at my pictures / profile and let me know what you think does / doesn’t work it would help me out a lot.

Green Eyed Sugar Lady, The search options on SA should have a way to search for 40yo students, that would uncover a trove of treasures.

Torrinsays:

Green Eyed Sugar Lady, I don’t care for the term sugarbabbie either. I like mistress in the traditional European meaning, which is what I seek. In letters I use companion and identify myself as a benefactor. All semantics I suppose.

Looking through the profiles there clearly are some cute sugarbabbies, mistresses, courtesans, women who belong on eHarmony and a few 1-800-dial-a-babe.
Quite a menu.

I shutter to think what you laddies have to wade through during searches.

Bicentennial Babysays:

@Midwest et al,

Well, I am back, safe and sound. Ok, I’ll take the beating…I went ahead and rolled the dice on the go back to the house for the envelope scenario, after having had dinner and a nice shopping trip. I came up heads on this one (he got tails, no pun intended! *LOL*) and got a winner. It was nice too because it was pretty much as soon as I got there and pulled out a board game to break the ice…there was an envelope which I got to keep if I won or lost after playing. I thought that was a really neat way to handle it and after realizing there wasn’t any awkwardness between us by this point, it was a go for the rest of the evening which was very sugar-y.

Equally awesome is that I’m enrolled Monday for the December window for exams (I’m auditing one of my classes but have to still pay for the testing) so I’m ontrack again to complete my degree in 2011 now. Yippee!

I think the main key to listen to with all of this is our instincts. My Spider Senses were roaring alarm bells with the grabby hotel guy from moment one. Nothing about his look or actions, just an instinct. This SD is a wonderful, sweet person and I never once had a fear or a twinge of concern during the evening. I figured there must be something subconscious I’m picking up on even if my rational mind doesn’t know the difference and I was right. He was nervous about giving any allowance first because I later learned that night he had a prior SB run off with gifts & an “advance” without so much as a glance back or a drive to his house. Knowing that it all makes sense so I didn’t take it personally and we’re golden now. He’s looking for a longer-term arrangement if possible and I agree, if things are going well, why mess with a good thing? Time will tell.

@Lily,
According to the consensus, it appears our mutual friend just “ain’t that into me”. LOL! That’s ok, I’ve met the real deal and it sounds like your week was equally productive so who cares? 😉

@NYGent,
I was stood up last week for drinks as well, after a nearly 2 hour drive. Pissed me off so bad, no call, nothing. I even sent an email to confirm they were not deceased. If I’m ever in NYC, I won’t stand you up! Good luck!

I must admit.. the new SA party looks like it will be alot of fun. Let`s all just remember to check the faces that we take home first! 😛

Green Eyed Sugar Ladysays:

I’m alive…. I think? Definitely kicking. Actually my classes are kicking me this term. Note to Torrin: in the talk about tuition, you mentioned you hadn’t had a SB young enough to be a student for a while… it could happen with an older SB as well. I’m a smidgen over 40 and returned to school last year- I’m switching careers, or rather building on my current one since I’m already in the field. I get what you’re saying, of course- but there are a lot of non-traditional students these days. (Don’t know how many are SB’s though. )

On the blog topic: My current SD (in my head I substitute married man, and I prefer the term Mistress to SB, maybe due to my age), we’re doing very well. Our agreement was to assess things after one month, then again after three, then if things are good, take it long term. We are in week six now, and I feel very lucky. We’ve been having a conversation that I haven’t seen before on the blog- finding your last sugar relationship.

Even though we haven’t passed the three month point, he has brought up very seriously that he would like the next five years. He’s looking for his last, believing that after he reaches his mid-60’s he probably will no longer be inclined to have a mistress. He is married and will not be leaving his wife. I am very glad he is clear with himself, and with me on that point as I wouldn’t want that.

The other piece of it… which I find very touching- is his concern for my future and wanting to let me go while I am still young enough to find a regular relationship, if I choose. I’ve been blessed by genetics and good self care, so my appearance is easily five or more years younger from the neck up, and fifteen from the neck down as well as my mind and heart, but the reality is none of us can stop time. As he put it, I probably have about ten more years of relative youth, and he doesn’t want to take all of it from me, leaving me to a lonely fate of mumu wearing and cat collecting. (that’s kind of a joke.)

Of course I can’t commit to five years, that’s too long, the future is too uncertain for that. He isn’t asking me to, but has made it clear that is what he would want. I’m going to be in school for the next five years at least and probably more, depending how far I want to take my education. Barring any unforeseen circumstances I can’t see my life being much different during that time than it is now. Something to think about.

Our exclusivity level is, no other sugars, I’m free to date/have fun if I want, but he doesn’t want to deal with any jealous boyfriends, so other serious relationships are out. If I meet someone I want to get serious with, he has asked that I tell him, and of course I would. I’m not inclined to that right now, but I do have the freedom to pursue my cougar side if I like, which is nice. I think this is enough to keep things balanced for right now.

So ends this episode of Sugar: the Sunset Years

Michael Alleycatsays:

Lily – I’m mostly here. Quiet weekend coming up, but seeing SB on Monday night for dinner. I was planning to cook again, but I’m thinking we should go out. I impressed her when i cooked dinner last week, so maybe a great restaurant would be best this time. Any thoughts?

Lily- I know! Stupid work is always ruining my fun. Hopefully you’ll be back soon and we’ll be able to catch up then.

Lilysays:

Quiet weekend on the blog! Anyone alive & kicking?

@Ebony: juggling more than one sugar relationship at once? Good stuff. Do what I used to do and keep really good notes. Who did what, what did we say and agree upon, etc. Seriously though, I think it is good to have 2 at the same time, this way you can keep everything in perspective, keep balanced, and not risk falling for anyone. Have fun!

Torrinsays:

How effective is the Hide Profile option? I put my profile on hide so that I could sort out the leads I have and I am still receiving letters from SBs that I have never seen before. Is there a way to find hidden profiles through a search?

@DandelionWine – so is “drinks and maybe dinner” preferred? Or is “dinner with drinks” the best option?

I always try to find the option that makes the other person most comfortable.

NakedNomadsays:

Hi Sugars!

Long time listener first time caller. Lol! But really I’ve been following the blog for a few weeks, but this is my first time posting. I just rejoined the site a couple months ago. I haven’t been very active about searching in the past, but have played with the idea a bit. This time, I feel I know myself well enough to take it more seriously and I’m looking forward to the experience, both the searching and the finding.

NYGent: I got stood up tonight too!!! It was actually a man I’d met IRL and we’d actually planned to “consummate” the arrangement tonight. Oh well, it was moving way too fast anyway and it’s easy to see some mistakes I made and learn from them. Still, he did such an about face and suddenly became such a jerk!

Taking on the role of stephan-bear….lets not gang up on a sugar family member! Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. This is the internet. You don’t have to agree with any of it.

Yall have a happy columbus day weekend now ya hear?????

=)

Ebonysays:

Hey there Sugar world!
So I’m happy to say that I took yalls advice and we emailed back n forth with my pot Sd and though we havent come to an agreement yet, we are meeting next week for dinner to discuss it. I’m kind of excited albeit nervous. I did though give him a ballpark so he knows around what amount I expect and hes cool with it.

I also met this guy a couple of weeks ago after my friend hit his brand new car and he asked me to breakfast afterward (late night partying) and we havent been on any other dates on account of me being busy but lately his texts have been suggestive to the fact that he wants to help me out and support me. financially.

I’m sort of having a mixed reaction since I wouldnt know how to juggle 2 SDs and a fulltime job…….Help!

@DandelionWine – I guess if I should ever meet someone from sa.com, it should never be over a glass of wine, or a great meal in a fantastic restaurant, huh? Totally inappropriate i guess.

Damn, I was looking forward to it too …

NYC Sb: agree totally. so silly. you don’t learn much from a person over a half hour coffee and “lunch” is trite. If people on this site can’t meet for drinks we may as well all pack it in and give up.

NYgent and NYC SB, nowadays alcohol safety is a mandatory class for freshmen in many colleges, and younger women are more wary of having their drink spiked, etc etc.

Dandelion – are you serious? Drinks at a bar to meet a pot seems perfectly safe and low key activity for a first meet … Lunch usually doesn’t work for those who work during the day and it is impossible to unplug … So silly …

I’m enjoying the posts here and am looking forward to more tomorrow myself.

EleganteKsays:

Almost forgot to mention the allowance on sweetdaddy! We had “the talk” and numbers are satisfactory now. 😛 😉

EleganteKsays:

Ah thank you so much! Well I have blown off “nick” and stuck with my Sweet-Daddy. If I had met up and even received half my allowance, if he were to poof I would feel used. Never “do the do” on the first date, I also just figured if he was a real gentleman he would should feel the same. Also I hope my url was removed!! One more rule to add to my list. (:

Dandelion Winesays:

NYGent, not excusing your SBs behavior and not saying this is most people’s logic, but I definitely wouldn’t consider it safe to go have drinks with someone I don’t know very well and I certainly wouldn’t drink at a negotiation. If you are trying to minimize expenses/have a more casual vibe, lunch or coffee shop meeting might be better.

and on this topic, does anyone have any financial advisory personnel recommendations in the nyc area? specifically relating to the sb stuff…..i figured that no matter how many books i read, there probably are people out there smarter than me that know more than i do. and i need someone i can trust to not extort me for whatever, or something. idk.

thank you to dandelion and nyc sb for tipping us all on tax exemptions…information like that is always greatly appreciated!

nygent-have you always had such luck?? i’m sorry =( but i’m not the one that stood you up…. =\

Ok so I tried to do it right andsafe this time. Friday night drinks with possible dinner at nice but not extravagent place. Confirmed by test earlier in day and again as late as 5 pm. At 7:ed I textto say I’m here at bar. At 7:40 she texts, “sorry babe running late.” I respond what is your ETA? No response, no show.

Belasays:

I have to laugh at this. If I had known all of this when I was in college, I definitely would have pursued it. My loans are small compared to the rest of the students in my class, but I would have really appreciated the help.

Torrinsays:

Just to state the obvious.

It is responsible, mature and tax beneficial to pay a SBs student loans and tuition. It’s been awhile since I had a SB young enough to carry student loans. A young woman no mater how mature needs some fun shopping and cash in her purse to stay happy in this type of relationship.

And of course if the SB is happy she can keep her SD happy

Belasays:

oops great

Belasays:

Wow, what a agreat idea.

Dandelion Winesays:

Oh, make sure that you are the account holder as well as the beneficiary, because the account holder is able to pull the money out with minimum penalties (you don’t want your SD doing that!) And also you can have multiple donors, the exemption is for each donor per beneficiary per year (now you see why college students make popular SBs XD )

Dandelion Winesays:

For the tuition: talk to a financial advisor about a 529 plan.
Money from 529 can be used for all qualified college expenses, not just tuition, and contributions up to 13k per year are exempt from the lifetime gift exclusion.
That’s not a lot, but if you can get a contribution of 13 k on top of getting your tuition paid, and use that for rent etc, that would make it easier with the rest of allowance

Dandelion Winesays:

Bi-baby, I just view something like that as a “polite” way of saying “You are not what I’m looking for”.
I hate to make a comparison to shopping, but when you see a bag that you absolutely love, that goes with everything you have, that reflects your personality, and that is made well (i.e.won’t fall apart after 3 months) EVEN if you don’t have the money right now, you will save up and cut corners in other ways to be able to afford it
On the other hand that bright turquoise pleather clutch? You’ll get tired of it in 2 weeks, no point in spending too much money

@NY GentWell I will award the “poor marketing” award to a profile I just saw, with the summary, “Pregnant and looking for an SD to spoil me.”

She might as well have said “please rescue me from my deadbeat boyfriend that got me pregnant”. A pregnant damsel in distress could be very tempting to the white knight, no?

@MichaelFreakin’ smartphones. Anything but.

I’m sure the phone is pretty smart. Not sure about its user though.

@Bicentennial Babyboth wound up acting all hurt that I wouldn’t share intimacy without allowance.

As you’ve figured out by now there are many wannabe SD’s that will waste your time. So don’t let them waste your time and don’t let them affect how you approach the real SD’s.

over a series of emails agreed I’d meet him for dinner and go to his place, get my envelope (allowance) and then upon sugar receipt, sugartime.

I agree with Midwest, get the envelope before you go to his place to avoid any surprises at his place.

it’s more the problem I’m not always dealing with a gentleman on the other end.

As we’ve discussed before, that’s where screening comes in! When you started the journey in the sugar world I said you should have no problem attracting the attention of pot SD’s. And I also said that your experience will be shaped largely by the decisions you make. So screen diligently and choose wisely, and you’ll have a much better experience.

@LilyHad the *best* week in NYC! So good to see 2 of my sugar blog sisters & gossip!!!

Have you not seen that episode of “two and a half men” where Alan went totally bonkers for a pregnant lady? XD

Belasays:

Good Morning Sugar People! Happy Friday!

Slept late this morning, but got to work on time. Quick like a ninja.

Sd in la – as you may be aware, whenever there is a tax law there is a loophole! In this case if an sd pays sbs tuition directly to the school it does not count against his annual gift tax exemption … I wrote a pretty lengthy blog on the subject, if anyone cares to read it click on my name

NC Gentsays:

Torrin – it depends – if she is logging in from a blackberry, her login location will show up as Canada (and not the US). If you login from the UK, it will show up as UK. If you have some concern, it is best to ask, because there may be a good explanation.

Is it a red flag for a SBs Last Logon Location to be a different then where her profile states she is in?

I will be traveling abroad soon. If I login in from the UK, will my profile show Last Logon Location United Kingdom?

Torrinsays:

Midwest SB and NYGent, thank you for the advice. Yesterday I added some clarification to my profile. Now I just put it on Hide, I need time to sort out current leads anyway. I also put in an accurate allowance amount and will see what affect that has.

When I edited my profile, before putting it on hide I got a pop in emails and winks. Does an edit set a profile as new?

Lilysays:

(that was directed at Midwest!)

Lilysays:

Hi!!!!

Midwest SBsays:

BiBaby – I wouldn’t go to his house in hopes he will follow through. He can subtly slip an envelope to you or in your purse at the restaurant. IIRC you had a very close call with a guy in a hotel who tried to force himself upon you. This scenario could turn out this way. You got lucky the first time. Safety first!

Torrin- NYGent said it nicely. We all go through the screening process and it’s expected. Placing a large allowance will attract most of the wrong ladies. Since you are so selective, perhaps try hiding your profile from general searches and making it specific about what you seek/offer including the allowance you are willing to provide. Then contact the ladies who meet your interests. This way, you’re not filtering hundreds of e-mails and you have complete control over the search. The ladies you contact will be able to see your profile. Verification by SA is a perk, but it doesn’t influence whether or not I will be in touch with him. The happy medium is to place a modest allowance and “overdeliver” That would be a very pleasant surprise for any lady!

Had the *best* week in NYC! So good to see 2 of my sugar blog sisters & gossip!!!

@BiBaby – wow, you’ve come a long way. Interesting journey, no?

Bicentennial Babysays:

@Ms Taken,

Interesting viewpoint. I do indeed know exactly why *I’m* here, it just seems when dealing with some pot SD’s you end up with them playing dumb, like “oh, you actually want allowance and not just the pleasure of my company?”….I had a wanna-be gift daddy poof that way and then another who was a p4p (by default) because both wound up acting all hurt that I wouldn’t share intimacy without allowance. (p4p guy put 1/2 up front, so I don’t really consider that a poof so much as a learning experience…).

The SD I am seeing this weekend had a brand new profile about a week old and his prior SB experience was off Craigslist IRL so he has been a little evasive about putting the $$ up front before the deed. We finally over a series of emails agreed I’d meet him for dinner and go to his place, get my envelope (allowance) and then upon sugar receipt, sugartime. I have full intentions of leaving if there is any attempt of “let’s get together first” or “see if we have chemistry before I commit” and full intentions of staying if he is as good as his written word outlining he agreed with what we had negotiated at the first meet.

I do indeed know why I am here, but for some reason get accused of being “mercenary” and a “gold digger” for being straight-up about what I believe I am worth and knowing full well what I have to offer in return. I guess it’s a knee-jerk reaction to Plastic Sex Boy who told me that SA is just a site for horny housewives and dumb college students who want an affair with a rich guy. NOT! and NEXT!

Sadly a lot of wanna-be SD’s DO view this site and the women therein in that light so it’s not so much I’m not able to do this in a ladylike way, it’s more the problem I’m not always dealing with a gentleman on the other end. I think this individual will be the real deal but I’ll know in about 24 hours since our meet is tomorrow evening.

The further I get into this process, the more I am honored to be called “a pro.” It means I know what I’m doing finally.

Michael Alleycatsays:

And what would be in it for me, exactly?

Midwest SBsays:

Stephan – Would you please share my e-mail with Bela! We have a date next week!

JustPeachy – Welcome!
Don’t sweat the age piece! I know two wonderful SBs who have had success here in their 40s. Focus on being a wonderful SB and the age will be a non-issue.
Worst mistake? Can’t say that I’ve had the nightmares that other have, so I will defer.
Why do I respond? I see his profile as sincere, looking to fill similar desires, and that he has an understand of the sb/sd dynamic.

Evening sugars! Off to dreamland.

Ms. Takensays:

Let me be the first to welcome you to the community, JustPeachy. Welcome! All very good questions you’ve posed. Alas, I am at my self-imposed limit for blog entries for the day and will (grudgingly) leave room for the other SBs and SD to answer. Tomorrow, perhaps….

@nygent~You’re not considering her as a pot, are you? Not that there’s anything wrong with it

What advise would you give an older SB, like me, just starting out?

Thanks for the help. I believe this dance will be an intriguing mix of
togetherness and independence. I am looking forward to learning the dance.
JustPeachy

On the “range” there is a further ambiguity (which I think the site deliberately created to get people together, or at least talking). The SBs are asked what level of “financial assistance” they are looking for. Almost all view this as synonymous with “allowance.” The SDs are asked to put down the TOTAL amount of $$ they are willing to spend on an SB monthly, including allowance, enterntainment, etc. So an SB who lists “3-5K” and an SD who lists “3-5K” may superficially seem to be on the same page, when in fact they are not. I now, despite the SD instructions, list just the amount i’m willing to pay for allowance, because I’ve found if I list the total, the SB will interpret it as the allowance amount. It leads to less disappointment and confusion in the end.

Ms. Takensays:

@Bela~It isn’t so much what other people think is reasonable regarding the terms of others’ arrangements. Actually, it doesn’t even matter. Alleycat made the point earlier (and copied here), “Settle on a number in your own mind, and stick to it.” Unless you know your number and believe you’re “worth” it, then you will not be a convincing advocate for that number if you ever have to defend it.

SA offers the choice of a range or the vague “negotiable” for profiles. I opt for the range because I know my number and I also know it’s not “negotiable” 😉 Though I like to know whether a pot has had successful sugar relationships, I don’t use past allowances to influence mine. If an SD offered me a 10K/month allowance, would I take it? Heck yea! But I However, if this SD paid his ex-SD that amount as recently as last week, I couldn’t ask for or defend that amount. Why? because I don’t believe what I do in a month can be valued at $10,000.

I really like that, Alleycat…”Know your number” – genius

Belasays:

The negotiating is an interesting topic. A big factor in how it goes seems to rely on interpretations. What someone may consider “reasonable” could easily be seen as “expensive.” It can be very personal. Do I personally think a person should receive a monthly allowance of $10,000? Absolutely not! I do understand, however, many who would beg to differ.

Ms. Takensays:

@Michael Alleycat~”Your SD is a business man, probably. He is used to discussing $$ openly and directly…Discussing money directly, unemotionally and openly IS classy. Settle on a number in your own mind, and stick to it. but there nothing generates more respect that someone who knows what they want – as long as it is within reason – and sticks to it.”
Glad to see your views, as an SD on this. I have said these very things before (albeit with less…um..sugar?). Hopefully, SBs will be more mindful of them and be ready to believe (and use) them as they go to these initial dinners/business meetings.

@SD Guru~”an experienced SD will expect the SB to discuss/negotiate the arrangement in a classy, lady-like manner.”
Agreed and agreed. Furthermore, the sooner the details are out of the way the sooner the pair can move on to other more pleasurable pursuits.
@

@SD Guru – “Maybe you can introduce cougar #1 to Stormcat!”

LOL – she is an attorney too! Used to be a medical malpractice lawyer, now she is CEO of a medical practice. I am sure that in her case what goes around, comes around. She has built up a ton of bad karma in her life.

Maybe Stormy can wash all that bad karma away! Seriously though, I wouldn’t wish her on anybody, let alone Stormy.

SouthernGent2says:

ElegantK – in regards to this Nick guy, sounds like to me he really is just looking for something one night. I would be cautious in your shoes. He can make his promises, but in the end, he gives you an “allowance” for your first meet, but then you won’t hear from him again.

As for the other guy, from what you say it sounds like you have some good chemistry. If you negotiate from the terms of how you “undersold yourself”, that might turn him off. My advice is to give the guy a chance for a month and see if he ups the ante a bit because he likes you. Bird in the hand………….

BiBaby – “I hate the allowance dance, I am NOT going to poof but it seems so hard to bring these things up in a classy, ladylike way.”

This is a partnership, I treat my SB arrangement as a business partnership. Money is central to this partnership. You have to be able to discuss these things openly and directly. Your SD is a business man, probably. He is used to discussing $$ openly and directly. If you approach it like Blanche Dubois, saying roundabout things like “I have always depended on the kindness of strangers” (movie reference? anyone?), you will come across as uncertain and insecure. Discussing money directly, unemotionally and openly IS classy. Money is not a dirty or taboo subject.

Second, your SD is probably used to negotiating. Settle on a number in your own mind, and stick to it. He may try and negotiate you down, but there nothing generates more respect that someone who knows what they want – as long as it is within reason – and sticks to it.

NC Gentsays:

I didn’t even notice the facebook link, and I agree with Michael.

Stephan or SD Guru – can you edit that out of there for her.

NC Gentsays:

EleganteK — Nick is most likely not an SD, and it sounds like he is looking for a free test drive. Based upon his actions, I would say NEXT!

Regarding the other pot SD and renegotiating, you need to find a way to re-open the negotiations. Did you agree on number of times you would meet? Anything that was left open might give you a chance. You might want to figure out how to bring up before you meet, because he might reconsider if the amount you are seeking is significantly higher.

Best wishes and welcome to the blog!

Hi EleganteK – first of all, I STRONGLY suggest that you remove the facebook link in your blog ID!! You really want to keep yourself private – in the internet world, this type of info has a habit of coming back to bite you later.

I am sure many ladies will add their comments, but it sounds like the first guy is looking for a free trial. Don’t go there. Get the agreement in place first, get the $ upfront, then proceed.

Re underselling yourself re the allowance with the 2nd guy, I am not sure what to suggest. I am for a ‘a deal is a deal’ but if the $ are way out of line now that you know what other people can offer, you may want to re-negotiate.

Blog-buddies – any comments??

Ms. Takensays:

@BiBaby~”I hate the allowance dance, I am NOT going to poof but it seems so hard to bring these things up in a classy, ladylike way”.

I single out this part of your e-mail for two reasons.
One: You are a married woman who has a profile up on a site to meet men who are willing to enter into a mutually beneficial arrangement in which some of the benefits include intimacy and an allowance. You’ve talked about the “classy, lady-like” horse feathers before. Do you feel like what you’re doing isn’t classy? Ladylike?

I posit that if you’re classy and lady-like, everything you do will reflect that – even coming to an agreement you’re comfortable with. The SD knows why you’re here and he knows why he’s here. The only one at this party who doesn’t know why you’re here is you. So, I hope you don’t think you will appear more like a lady and less like a pro if you negotiate badly or appear uncomfortable while doing so.

The downside to taking this negative attitude towards this part of the process is that you will find yourself in the “Groundhog Day” of sugar dating. If you are led into arrangements versus negotiating the arrangement you want, then you will most likely have shorter arrangement periods and therefore will be in the uncomfortable position of ‘hating the dance’ more often.

Two: I will abandon this as a pet project when SDs start wringing THEIR hands about feeling uncomfortable about having the intimacy “talk”.

*You didn’t ask* but my suggestion is, “Screen well, negotiate even better so you don’t have to repeat (as often)”.

N.B. I use negotiate not because I see the “dance” as adversarial but as a means to an agreement.

@EleganteK

Your situation sounds similar to Ebony’s and here’s what I wrote earlier:

“Assuming you can agree on the terms of the arrangement, then you’ll need to agree on how to consummate the arrangement… There were some excellent discussions about “Trust, Allowance, and Intimacy” a couple of blog topics ago that you should take a look. What it comes down to is that both sides need to determine how much risk they’re comfortable with taking in order to build trust at the beginning of the arrangement.”

No matter how great of a SD you think he could be, if you can’t agree on how to consummate the arrangement in a way that is comfortable for both, then he’s just another pot SD that didn’t work out.

As for rehashing the allowance with your soon to be SD, there should be room for discussion since you haven’t started the arrangement yet. It’s like asking for a raise after you’ve accepted a job offer. You can try it but you better have a very good reason. Why do you think you undersold yourself? Is it because the arrangement doesn’t meet your needs, or do you think he should be able to give you more?

@Ms TakenI posit that if you’re classy and lady-like, everything you do will reflect that – even coming to an agreement you’re comfortable with… I hope you don’t think you will appear more like a lady and less like a pro if you negotiate badly or appear uncomfortable while doing so.

That’s a very good point. Some SB’s want their pot SD’s to give them what they want without having to ask for it or discuss it. However, SD’s aren’t mind readers, and an experience SD will expect the SB to discuss/negotiate the arrangement in a classy, lady-like manner. It may not come naturally for newbie SB’s, but it certainly can be done.

@Michaelthe first one was someone I met on match, what a disaster. Within a few weeks she wanted to marry me. Ummm, no. Insisted on seeing me 2-3 times per week, and got pissed when I wouldn’t call her every day. Ummm, no. 5 kids, 2 divorces.
Interesting. Maybe you can introduce cougar #1 to Stormcat!

*good income & *comming down. I`m mobile pardon me..

Ive been so anxious to join the blogs! Finally here I am,a few hundred clicks through all these pages! I have one very important question.. I`m a 20 yr old soon-to-be sb. I have yet to meet one (already have one set up nov 2&3) but this other one.. Ill call him Nick. He`s handsome, food income, funny . But.. heres his setback. I agreed to meet and well go out to dinner and he wants to take me shopping .. but he wants me to spend the night in his hotel room and when I said I wouldnt be comfortable with having anything physical with him unless allowance is paid up front after weve agreed to terms. His reaction to this was “this is the reason of me xomming down, to see if we `fit`” I dont agree, and he should know better than to buy my body. I`m afraid of himm poofing. He said he would deposit on the 1st and 15th of the month but i have yet to meet him and surely the first day im not going to .. as you say”give him the cow”. How do I tell him I need more time without him leaving before we even started? If this is the case,should I even stay if he thinks he can approach me this way? Also I have another (soon to be) sd and we have AMAZING chemistry and find each other attractive but i totally undersold myself on my allowance when we meet and now Im regretting it. Theres no way to rehash the allowance conversation is there,..):

Ms. Takensays:

@nygent~I should be so lucky 8)

Midwest~thanks for the props and glad to have you back, girl

@SD Guru – “yes she is the cougar. And I’m loving’ it. Good for you! Is she your first cougar?”

Second – the first one was someone I met on match, what a disaster. Within a few weeks she wanted to marry me. Ummm, no. Insisted on seeing me 2-3 times per week, and got pissed when I wouldn’t call her every day. Ummm, no. 5 kids, 2 divorces.

I managed to escape intact.

NC Gentsays:

Welcome to the blog Torrin. Not trying to speak for you Midwest, but I don’t think she was suggesting an allowance amount because of scammers but more because of there is a large (and ever increasing) percentage of people who view SA as a conventional dating site. If you add the words that you wrote earlier to your profile, that should help alleviate those concerns. I concur that a large allowance amount might convey the wrong message — it sometimes scares away good potentials who think you are FOS. Best wishes in your search.

@TorrinIs there a need to reply to a Wink if you are not interested? I have not Winked anyone, is there an advantage to a Wink over an introduction letter?

Personally I don’t think a wink is that useful. If someone is really interested you’d hope that they’d take the time to write an email.

If a SB writes to a SD and she apparently has not read or disregarded his profile, is there a need to respond?

It’s up to you, depending on what she wrote and whether her profile is interesting.

I take it that is a SD receives a genuine letter from a SB that is not interested in, he should respond?

A common courtesy is to respond politely and thank them for their interest.

My profile is 534906, any suggestions would be appreciated.

You described yourself as “closed/stiff/not down to earth”. Was that meant to be tongue in cheek or? You also wrote “She should be prepared to dedicate herself to pampering a gentleman in a long term monogamous relationship.” That sounds like you’re looking for a future wife. Are you?

Ask yourself this… is there anything in your profile that would compel a pot SB to hit the “email” button to contact you after reading it?

@NC GentYou can no longer see someone’s blocked last login by adding them to favorites

That’s true, but there is another way to see it.

@Bicentennial Babyis it tacky to ask for allowance in cash?… I’m just going to literally turn around with my allowance less than a few days later and pay for this semester’s classes.

Generally speaking, it’s reasonable to ask for the allowance in cash. But if it’s for a very large amount then the practicality of dealing with a large pile of cash could become an issue. Alternatively, you can ask your SD to pay for your tuition (or a portion of it) directly to the school.

Anyone ever receive a cashier’s or personal check that wasn’t any good?

I’d suggest that you don’t take checks of any kind until you’ve established trust.

why do guys meet with you, send you emails, and then never pin down a date??

Maybe he doesn’t have the means to be a SD and just wants your attention. Who knows. Guys like that will waste your time only if you let them. So don’t let them waste your time.

I’m as good as my word and if I promise someone a wonderful, fabulous evening, I’m not going to leave halfway through!

Good for you! But you should realize not all SB’s are like that.

@carebeari would have agreed with most of you (ny gent, sd guru, etc) when you said when someone talks about themselves a lot it means they don’t have much to back it up. but he does.

What I said was the more a guy likes to talk about himself the less likely he is to deliver. He may have a lot to back up his talks, but will he actually deliver? I hope I’m wrong and everything works out according to your expectations.

its cold and i wanna go to florida. whos in

See you in south beach! Remember, it’s legal to sunbathe topless there!

@Stormcatshould I pressure her into a more substantial relationship so that I can take care of her

That, my friend, is a classic case of white knight syndrome despite you saying otherwise. Note the word “pressure”, and the phrase “so that I can take care of her”. It sounds like you want to do this for yourself to be a white knight whether she wants to be taken care of or not.

It is such a temptation to offer that we find a place together.

Sure, you’re tempted, but do you think she’ll jump at the offer with joy?

The thing is that I could actually see us as a couple but under the circumstances of our relationship so far I just don’t know how to judge whether there is anything real or whether it is all illusary.

If you’re not sure, and you’ve been divorced twice, what’s the rush?

In an earlier post I said white knights usually set themselves up for disappointment and they end up making poor decisions because of their emotions. I can see this coming in your case and I hope you don’t prove me right.
@Michaelyes she is the cougar. And I’m loving’ it.

Good for you! Is she your first cougar?

@SDinLAI am not an accountant, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night… hmmm actually it was a Four Seasons, does that work the same way?

I’m not a guru, but I did stay at a Ritz Carlton last night. 😉

Belasays:

@Midwest!!! Hey sweetie! I don’t know how, but send me your contact info. I’ll be in Chicago next week, and if you want to grab a drink with me, I’ll let you know where I’m staying. Awesome to see you!

@BiBaby – I’ve had the same thing happen to me. I have always managed my social life with men (and some women) to be very basic: if a man really wants to see you, he’ll make it happen. When a guy floats in and out of your life will pleasantries but never actually says, “yes! Friday night! Be there!” You probably shouldn’t depend on him to do so (especially after trying to initiate something yourself.

The reason for it doesn’t necessarily doesn’t have to mean that he’s not into you, but whatever the reason, you have to ask yourself whether or not you’re willing to wait around for him to grow a pair and make things happen.

@Torrin – I know it sounds a bit neurotic, but having a plan to take action does sound romantic to me. I know there are people who define in part as going through the “natural” emotions with no plans or immediate expectations, but I’m way to systematic for that 

@SDinLA – lol Very nicely put!

Good Morning!

SDinLAsays:

Bicentennial Baby: I’ve had a lot of experience with tuition issues since all of my SBs were students…

There is a big tax advantage to having your SD pay your tuition directly to the school: if he does that, tuition payments in any amount are not subject to gift tax

Otherwise, any money he gives you is technically subject to a 35% Federal gift tax above the $13k annual exclusion and his lifetime $1 million exemption- and I doubt that he is willing to use up his lifetime exemption on his SBs, try explaining why the $1 mill exemption is gone and where it went to the wife and kids in the future 😉

Not all SDs are married of course, and some have ways of hiding SB allowances amongst large sums of disposable income they are spending anyway, ergo avoiding the tax issue that way, but depending on the situation, having your SD pay tuition (medical expenses also are free from gift tax if paid directly to the provider) could save him a lot of money and maybe even free up more cash for him to spend on you.

N.B. I am not an accountant, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night… hmmm actually it was a Four Seasons, does that work the same way?

Michael Alleycatsays:

@Midwest – yes she is the cougar. And I’m loving’ it.

Torrinsays:

Midwest SB Et Al,

Yes I quickly became aware that there are SDs and SBs on this site that are fakes or scams. I would welcome screening as I would screen a pot SB, There is a verified SD program on this site. Would this ensure trust?

You suggest that I post an allowance amount in my profile. My thought was that posting a large amount would attract too many inappropriate responses and make me look like another blowhard.

My thought was that after a couple of letters I would meet in a safe place for her. If she showed up and was the person she presented herself to be I would give her a significant gift. If the meeting went well we would schedule a meeting in a private office where we could discuss an arangement.
Yes I know it sounds terribly romantic;-(

Tomorrow i will tune up my profile, check it again when you get a chance.

Bicentennial Babysays:

@Midwest,

Thanks for the advice, I suspected as much on the endless emails. A sugar friend of mine knows the same guy and I am wondering if he’s going to do the same to her as well. It’s not that I’m offended, I’m just analytical…everything I do, I do for a reason. I’m trying to understand the behavior but my DH once told me that you can’t understand crazy and if you did, that would be a lot worse!

SD#1 replied cash is fine but wants to wait until after dinner and give me my first allowance at his place when we get there as he doesn’t feel comfortable doing that while we’re out shopping/eating. I guess I understand that but I think he’s a little fearful I’ll “poof” on him. *sigh*. I hate to have him think that, I’m as good as my word and if I promise someone a wonderful, fabulous evening, I’m not going to leave halfway through! On the other hand, obviously we’re newly developing trust if we have to have this conversation but at least he’s mature and willing to be up front, so to my mind, that’s a keeper.

I agreed to compromise on this and wait until we get back to his place (but before any ‘nookie’), so hopefully I’m making the right compromise to develop that trust. My prior IRL SD relationship I had been seeing that guy 3 months before we were intimate, so it’s a little awkward navigating the no allowance/no nookie and no nookie/no allowance chicken-egg process since the timetable is moved up so much more when you meet online. I’ve been through 6 pots and one p4p type outcome to meet a decent, real SD so it appears that the process is indeed vastly different when you meet electronically to start with.

Meeting someone at an event is more like real life dating where it takes time and by the time we both were ready to spend time together, I knew without hesitation he was a true SD because he’d already plunked down over $4k in various forms of aid before ever broaching the subject. I guess seeing as so many SD’s get burned by SB’s who poof without mutual benefit, I have to accept this is the most likely way of things. I’ll just be glad once the *initial* awkwardness is done and we can rely on trust and have fun the weekends we are together going forward…

OK, No superficial BS here, this is my dillemna, and it has been building for a while, My SB and I have been together for more than 1 1/2 years. We have never declared exclusivity. Rather we have both been quite insistant on independence. Neither of us have made any real attempt to get the other to committ to anything beyond the wonder of meeting and being in the moment. I think we could continue that way quite nicely for as long as nature allows us to do so except that unpredictably and as usual circumstances have changed, In essence we have both become sort of “homeless” at the same time. lol It is such a temptation to offer that we find a place togather. But when we have been togather it has always been more like being on vacation than real life housekeeping. We have never even had a real fight! I just don’t know if we could do real life togather. That would not be sugar life anymore! The thing is that I could actually see us as a couple but under the circumstances of our relationship so far I just don’t know how to judge whether there is anything real or whether it is all illusary. I consider myself to be rather fickle and undependable so how can I even trust my own impression? Anyway the whole thing has come to a head, and I am needing some reality. I’m 55 she’s 35. I’m now twice divorsed, her once. I am in excellent health, she has an illness that will eventually devestate her before her time. But the L bomb planted itself in my heart before I knew all this and I can’t change my feelings. So . . . should I pressure her into a more substantial ralationship so that I can take care of her, should I allow her her independance and dignity at the cost of her suffering, or is ther another solution that can keep both her dignity and can allow me to at the same time take care of her? This is not White Knight Syndrome any more. This is real! My own life and existance is also at stake here and I am waving in the breeze. Help!

Miss you too Midwest!! We need another sugar sister night out sooner than later!

Your posts are just as insightful and awesome as I rembember!

Midwest SBsays:

Hi Scarlet! Miss ya!

Midwest SBsays:

Bicentennial – Next the pot SD with the endless e-mails. If he is serious and that into you, then he will go out of his way to see you. As for the allowance, cash is not an unusual request. He can give it to you with a card discreetly, or wire it to you. You could also ask your future SD to send it via PayPal plus 3%. You will be charged a 3% fee when you withdraw the funds. You can get a PayPal debit card and use the funds through the card or just transfer the funds into your account. The tellers will assume it’s E-bay or something similar. I would frown from any paper trail as you are married and a respectable member of your community.

Torrin – I respect your desire to want a monogamous, long-term arrangement with a sophisticated lady who has it together. It borders between wanting to date a higher caliber of woman (which happens here frequently) and having specific criteria as an SD. Please realize we have to screen relentlessly and watch for the men who say the know the lifestyle of an SD, but never follow through. Perhaps stating an allowance range would help instill trust. If you prefer gifts and travel, specifically state this as well. Perhaps sharing that you were with your former SB for (x) period of time helping her through college or starting a business. It’s not fair that the other gents have made this more challenging for our genuine SDs, but that tends to go both ways.

Wow…sooo much to catch up on…haven’t had a chance to blog lately but it is good to see some familiar faces still on here giving great advice.

Hope everyone is doing well and having a sweet start to the fall.

friends.

i think i’m almost sober from my pot date monday night.

i would have agreed with most of you (ny gent, sd guru, etc) when you said when someone talks about themselves a lot it means they don’t have much to back it up. but he does. it was actually a great date and i’m looking forward to everything yet to come!

my current sd is doing the roller coaster move again where he says i’m too young but wants to meet for a drink to talk. gr.

how is everyone else’s sugar week?

its cold and i wanna go to florida. whos in

Torrinsays:

Midwest SB, thanks for looking at my profile. No I am not seeking a Hot Girlfriend. My taste run toward sophisticated and refined, plus I don’t want a girlfriend but a mutually beneficial companion who desires this lifestyle and not someone doing it out of need.

Should that be in the profile?

Bicentennial Babysays:

couple quick questions for the sugar fam!

First, is it tacky to ask for allowance in cash? I truly don’t want to have to deal with tracking money through my checking account as my bank tellers know I’m not working since I cash my unemployment checks with them…and I really want to pay my school with cash anyway since I’m just going to literally turn around with my allowance less than a few days later and pay for this semester’s classes. Is that a reasonable request? Anyone ever receive a cashier’s or personal check that wasn’t any good?

I hate the allowance dance, I am NOT going to poof but it seems so hard to bring these things up in a classy, ladylike way. My SD and I have our first long date this weekend (yippee!) and he agreed to put half allowance up front when we meet, and I thought that’s fair too, just in case there’s a change of mind. I really don’t think so, we’ve been emailing daily and get along really wonderfully. I just hate trying to bring this stuff up but I believe honesty is best and in turn, we’ve had the “talk” about intimacy and we’re anticipating a great time together, so maybe I’m doing this right?

Second, why do guys meet with you, send you emails, and then never pin down a date?? I had two meets with another pot SD who just wouldn’t nail down on a meeting for us to start an arrangement, even though we had discussed intimacy, allowance, and even agreed on a possible weekend. Then nada, no commitment. BUT he still emails me! Innane stuff like the weather, his job, the NFL game, you name it! I even asked if we were still “on” and he ignored it totally.

So why would an SD do this? If I’m not his type, why did he agree to a 2nd meet in person and go through all the motions, etc? Wouldnt’ he just “poof” and stop emailing? I’m confused why this happens.

Thoughts? Should I just stop replying since I’ve already asked him twice if we’re planning on a future arrangemenbt or just be polite and suspect he may pop back into my life later on? I hate to waste time….

Midwest SBsays:

Blog questions:

What are your opinions about sugar daddies leaving their wives for sugar babies? I would say they were leaving their wives under false pretenses. It’s all a dance of making his life drama free and fireworks and making her life less cumbersome… add a little reality and you have another wife.

Have you ever met a sugar who you would change your life to be with? How far would you go? I have not and would not for the same reasons stated above.

How has your sugar life been lately? I’ve scaled my search back quite a bit simply because my real life is hectic. I want to give my SD the attention he deserves and get lost in our time together. That wish is just a wish for now. In the meantime, I’ve been socializing with sbs and sds over the summer and it has been such a treat. We have an amazing group of ladies and gents!

Midwest SBsays:

NYGent – If you don’t know her…you should! She’s the real deal!

Midwest SBsays:

Torrin – Welcome to the online sugar world. I peaked at your profile and it causes me to ask you to clarify if you see an SB or a hot girlfriend

Hi sugars! I’ve been quiet for a bit as I”m working tons and the blog is moving rather quickly. You know…we’re reaching when the hot topic is how to see one’s profile without the other knowing it. I saw Torrin’s profile without logging in, but by going to the landing page, taking a look at some “sample” sd profiles and replacing his number with their number…sneaky indeed!

Sincere – I echo the others…I remember her pouting about trusting you about 3-4 months ago and you two are still together. She must be super hot and extraordinary in bed for you to be putting up with that kind of drama…Or are you in love?

NYGent – Someday, my friend. Someday!

Bela – It should be a compliment (and/or a hint) if you found his profile intriguing enough to visit it more than once! That man should send you an e-mail and quick!

He is married. I understand if he doesn’t want me to call him when it’s not convenient, but I still wanted to make sure that this isn’t some tiny flag that could be overlooked so easily.

NC Gentsays:

Bela — did he tell you his marital status? I am guessing he is married and is waiting to develop some trust.

Belasays:

Okay, SD’s, would this qualify as a flag: I am speaking with someone, who seems nice, but he does not allow me to call him. Normally that wouldn’t bother me, except I don’t know his phone number at all. When he calls my cell phone, he blocks the phone number. So if I’m working or just not available, the only thing I can do is wait until he calls again.

Thoughts?

Belasays:

That is true. I can’t see who has viewed or favorited me.

Is it still true that blue profile members cannot see who viewed them, or when? Can they see if they’ve been favorited and by whom? If the latter answer is no I would think it would drive somebody crazy to know they’ve been faved but without knowing who!

Bela — also, with the latest upgrade — it updates it when someone views you— can now see who is stalking me and causing my views to go up! Before, it only showed the date/time they FIRST viewed you.

Belasays:

Safety issues? No, but I will have to think twice before I go back to re-read a profile that I like. Otherwise, the person may wonder why this crazy chick keeps looking back at my profile without saying anything.

NC Gentsays:

Stormcat — I am pretty sure no one’s safety was compromised by your revelation of secrets

Bela: You’re right. I think I shouldn’t have said anything about ways to get around features on the site as most of them are there to protect our privacy and make us safe. The fact that I even mentioned that they exist was irresponsible on my part and I apologize.

@nygent~Don’t be so hard on her. I haven’t received any of your (legendary) e-mails nor seen your (captivating) profile, yet…I want to meet you. Admittedly, if only to keep the bad babies away 😉

@Torrin

I addressed your question in this post, perhaps you missed it? I’m not sure what tiff you were referring to. It goes without saying that there are many bloggers who are very passionate about expressing their opinions. As long as it’s done in a constructive manner it will help us share our experiences and learn from each other.

@StormcatThere are ways to look at a persons profile without them knowing that you looked at it… You can also find out when a person last logged on even though they blocked the last logged on time and date.

Are there more SA secrets you’d like to share?

@smitten kittenhe wants me to cook dinner for him at his place and discuss the details of the agreement as well. What is the etiquette here?

I’m glad your first meet with the pot went well. Whether you should meet him at his place or not depends on how comfortable you are with him and how much you trust him. If there is any doubt in your mind at all then I’d suggest that you stick with meeting at a public place.

NC Gentsays:

As Stormcat suggested, they can just view you from the email notification link and it won’t show up. I am with Smitten Kitten though — if they were really interested, they would view you again once they have logged into SA… but you probably wrote such a great email and have such a memorable profile, that she found it wasn’t necessary!

Stormcat: sneaky!

Torrin: Welcome Obviously you can read the past blog threads, search on them with the cntl-S search feature. There are also subject pages on the blog’s home page. You can ask specific questions here, and if you want other bloggers to critique your profile you have to post your profile number or paste your profile link in the website box when you submit a comment.

NYGent: It has been a while but I think the way to avoid being seen is to view the profile from a cell phone, using the link in the e-mail notification, without logging on to your SA account. Then you don’t show up on that person’s who viewed my profile list.

I met SBs before through private introductions, this is my first on-line attempt. My profile is a badly written first draft, any constructive criticisms are welcome.

Thanks

smitten_kittensays:

@michael…good point, but oh so rare. And if this were true, i would still check the profile for my own piece of mind. Sure, I think I would still reply if the message resonated with me…but what about a skeleton profile attatched, or one littered with red flags? Better to be cautious.

@stormcat…definitely food for thought. Are the under the radar tactics less time consuming than a, in so many words, thanks but no thanks?

What it means is that 1) the SB you are dealing with is smarter than the average, and 2) Congradualtions you made it past the first Motion to Dismiss.

@ NY Gent: There are ways to look at a persons profile without them knowing that you looked at it. Some do it as a screening technique and only answer the e-mails of the profiles that they like.
You can also find out when a person last logged on even though they blocked the last logged on time and date.

What kind of sign is it when a pot SB agrees to meet after reading an SD’s email but without even viewing your profile? Not a good one I fear . . .

smitten kittensays:

wow you guys are fast, here is what I left at the end of the last blog….

@NYGent…I definitely know that my answer is yes…something wonderful can happen between us which I could say is a main factor in why I want to proceed. I want to wait about a month to make sure he’s everything he says he is, and to ensure our chemistry doesn’t fizzle. I want to make sure he’s not gonna flip the switch and make me regret anything. I don’t get the feeling that he will, but that’s quite an allowance to put out there and I want to make sure it’s not false bait.

@carebear…exactly, above all else this is about chemistry and ultimately both our happiness, as per agreement. I know that I can deliver, I need to make sure that he can as well. I don’t want any of this hanging over my head or making me hold back sugar in an form.

@Guru…true to form, wise as always. The first thing I would like to build is trust…paralleled by chemistry. I have no problem being rewarded on that level as long as I know what’s in store. I can and will prove myself as I really am real about my intentions and just don’t want to be taken advantage….or let him think for a moment that I would take advantage of him.

For the record him and I are still on for sunday night. Found out his favorite food types and picked out a relaxed place that isn’t anything extreme. So far so good. Will catch up with what I’m sure is a highly amusing few days of entries…hope everyone is doing well

now this blog….

@sincereSD….I think that no matter what the situation both parties are expected to act in an honorable and respectful way. The least I can ask of anyone, if I have a disagreement with them or they with me, that we be able to sit down and talk it out until we get to a point that makes both parties happy and content. The whole point of this is to take away stress and drama….not add to it. Especially over something like money. That’s just down right wrong in my book….more so after 6 months. Don’t meddle in adult affairs and then act like a child. I think you’ve been more than fair.

SDinLA…I’m definitely with you, I know there are predators on both sides and it’s our job to be sure that we don’t come off as one and to not fall prey to one. I guess my curiosity leads me to wonder how to do so without offending the other and without losing genuine honor.

NYGent…it’s always dangerous to be the truly honest and sincere one, but no worries…there will most certainly be the right SB out there who can both appreciate and match what you have to offer, without the drama. Also, as far as dinner conversation goes…I tend to believe that the SD is there for a bit of reprieve from everyday life…even if it means talking about themselves sometimes. I feel like its my job to listen…but also take pieces of what he talks about and direct it to a more positive conversation…and then continue from there.

@michael…what happens if you’re the type that everyone falls for and wants to change their life for? How do you both warn them and guide them away from that?

@stormcat…I could never trust a knight that ultimately wants me dependent on them instead of wanting to just stand me up. I’d rather keep my independence than become a puppet of need.

@dandelion…yessss!

@bela…I think the line in the sand is necessary… I think my theory is taking the question of agreement away helps the whole thing stay happily afloat in the first place

over all I think that anyone who makes a change in their lives for reasons other than their own will inevitably make the wrong decision. No one should change for me….if they choose to take the facts of the situation, think about them, and then evolve…then fine. But I would never be comfortable having someone say, I did this for you. My reply is aaaaalways, you should be doing this for yourself.

Sunday dinner date went amazingly well. It would seem that he’s abit shocked and how real and up front I am about everything. We didn’t talk about an agreement, but lightly brushed on the fact that he would be honored to continue. It came up in conversation that I’m a really good cook and he wants me to cook dinner for him at his place and discuss the details of the agreement as well. What is the etiquette here?

Ruby — meeting for coffee is harmless, and it is a low-risk proposition. Sounds like you have things under control! Have fun, and I hope he looks like his pictures

@Dandelion Winebeing a white knight is not essential and even counter-productive to being a SD/SM; mutually beneficial arrangement is negotiated between, and not granted by either of the parties.

Very well stated. Those who want to be a white knight usually set themselves up for disappointment and end up making poor decisions. But if it’s a price they are willing to pay and they can handle the consequences then why not.

@v.badbunnythere is a warning on the main page NOT to send an sb money for travel as there are reports of them taking it and running.. BUT… On the SB travel tips link, it advises this exact situation…

The SB Travel Guidelines you referred to stated that the SD should be responsible for SB’s travel expenses. This can be done by the SD making travel arrangements and paying for it, or the SD can send funds to the SB to make her own arrangements. Obviously if the SD is not comfortable with the second option, then he should do the first option. The bottom line is that the SD should take care of SB’s travel expenses in a way that is comfortable for both parties.

@aspiring-docnever fear I dont do boyfriends………….it will take alot for me to succumb

As I said before, how anyone wants to handle their relationships is none of my business. Only you can say for sure whether having him as a boyfriend is a good thing or not. Here are some things for you to think about. If you were to have a boyfriend, is he the type that you’d look for? If he’s your boyfriend, how would that impact your search for a SD?

@Ebony

I can understand why you were asking the kind of questions you asked. I’d suggest that you look at the situation from another angle and take a different approach. Since you think he is more experienced than you are, let’s use it as a starting point and ask him some questions. For example:

– How long did your sugar relationships last and why did the relationships end?
– What type of arrangements did you have and what were your expectations?

Of course every situation is different and what worked for one SB may not work for another. But his answer about the arrangements he had (assuming he is honest) will give you an indication of what he’s willing to do. Then you can make an assessment as to whether it’s close to what you had in mind.

Assuming you can agree on the terms of the arrangement, then you’ll need to agree on how to consummate the arrangement. Again, you can ask him how he did it in previous arrangements and see how comfortable you are with it. There were some excellent discussions about “Trust, Allowance, and Intimacy” a couple of blog topics ago that you should take a look. What it comes down to is that both sides need to determine how much risk they’re comfortable with taking in order to build trust at the beginning of the arrangement. Good luck!

Belasays:

Morning!!!

@Arctic SD – I hate to admit it, but my last relationship was with a Knight just like you. The only thing was his desire to “rescue me” worked. I became more willing to rely on myself, be assertive at work, and go after the things I wanted. The main thing he didn’t expect was my realizing that, while he wanted me to be able to take on the world, that also transferred to being able to take him on as well. He grew to hate that I voiced my disapproval of his drinking and cheating, and I was assertive enough to end the relationship.

I’m so thankful for the relationship because I learned how to put on my “big girl panties” when needed. I don’t know if I would say that I’m still searching for a Knight, since I would say I’m good at taking care of my basic needs (as every woman should eventually be able to do.) I guess my Knight would rescue me from the monotony of my everyday life.

@NY GENT – I understand re-drawing the line in the sand. I think one reason people do it is because they don’t want to feel like they didn’t sufficiently work at something. You get jaded by seeing people begin a relationship and just quit when the slightest hint of imperfection shows. I stayed in my relationship for 5 years which was probably 2 years too long. Even though we weren’t married, I viewed the relationship as something that you don’t just walk away from.

there is a warning on the main page NOT to send an sb money for travel as there are reports of them taking it and running..

BUT

On the SB travel tips link, it advises this exact situation….!!!!!!!!

NOT COOL!!!!

Ebonysays:

Hello sugars! Its been a long time. I so enjoy this blog!
I met a pot sd for dinner friday night and we had some good chemistry and ive never had a sd so he kept bringing up the subject of exactly how much i would be needing monthly and what kind of help i required. i think he is more experienced since he told me to think it over then shoot him an email later. i have a couple of questions:

1. firstly, when a pot sd asks you what you are looking for, does one just dish out sum numbers then yall get to crunching them or how does that go.
2. secondly, after the initial meeting if you decide theres enough chemistry to guarantee a continuance…..do you make an arrangement before the second meeting if it wasnt broached in the first meeting?
3. thirdly, once youve decided on the arrangement, do you tell the pot sd to deposit it hence having a guarantee or asking him to give to you beforehand at the next meeting or…?
please i need some real help here….oldtimers, SD guru, aspiring.doc, NYC sb, Ny gent, D-Wine, EVERYBODY help!!!!!! He is the first pot SD with any REAL potential ive met on the site!

Dandelion Winesays:

Arctic, I don’t believe in altruism, and being a white knight is not essential and even counter-productive to being a SD/SM; mutually beneficial arrangement is negotiated between, and not granted by either of the parties.

Stormcat, that was because you were attached to the outcome and didn’t know when to let go. (BTW, I am not condemning or judging, it is poignancy only bitter experience could impart)

Michael Alleycatsays:

DandyWine – being detached from the outcome is key. When you give, you give only what you want. Since you are detached from the outcome, nobody can bait you into giving more!

Stormy – the problem with being a white knight is that he wants to rescue the damsel. Who cares?

Being detached from the outcome is extraordinarily powerful, plus it is very attractive to other people. They flock to you. But who cares? Because you are detached from the outcome …. v v v powerful, trust me on this one.

Okay so I am brand new to this whole SD/SB thing. i have read all of the blogs and I am still not sure what is expected out of a SB. What is the general sensus for the requirements? Please help.

@White Knights (you know who you are!)

There are two fundamental problems with those who are afflicted with the White Knight Syndrome. First, their effort and kindness may not be reciprocated even though deep down they would like the recipient to show some appreciation. Second, some people just can’t be helped or don’t want to be helped. Despite their best intentions, anything the White Knights can do will only be a temporary band aid and ultimately a wasted effort in those cases.

And my #1 rule for SD’s? Repeat after me… “Don’t get emotionally attached, especially for a married man!”

I understand no one will confuse me with being sensitive and sentimental. And that’s ok with me.

@Ruby…..Am I being silly?

As I mentioned before, in just about any given situation you can evaluate the risk and reward to decide what you’re comfortable with. Based on what you described, meeting a pot for coffee should be a low risk proposition while the upside is unknown. If you’re comfortable with that then go for it!

@MichaelI have shut off #2 a few weeks ago and am focusing on #1.

Which #1 is this, the new #1 or the new new #1?

@BelaHow common is it for a married SD’s wife to be aware of the SB?

Hopefully never! If a married SD is diligent about covering his tracks then this should never happen. But sometimes SD’s can get sloppy and complacent and that’s when a suspecting spouse can uncover clues.

Have any of you receive negative contact from the wife? How do you manage that risk?

I’ve seen blog stories where this has happened. As a SB there is not much you can do to manage your risk because you’re depending on your SD to keep your contact information private. Therefore the best way to manage the risk to make sure your SD is diligent about covering his tracks.

@carebearWe have had a ton of chemistry until he recently decided that he would dominate the conversations talking on and on about himself.

Generally speaking, the more a man likes to talk about himself, the less he will deliver as a SD.

————————–

Re: The Blog Topic

I think SD David has articulated it very well, and I’ll add my two cents.
What are your opinions about sugar daddies leaving their wives for sugar babies?

Most married SD’s probably have contemplated this at some point during their journey in the sugar world. I know I have. But at the end of the day, when cooler heads and rational thinking prevail, very rarely will a SD leave his wife for a SB especially when there are young kids involved.

Have you ever met a sugar who you would change your life to be with? How far would you go?

Yes, I wrote the story of “Mixing Love and Sugar” in my blog to chronicle the deepest emotional involvement I’ve ever had with a SB. Ironically she was married too. The relationship was short lived (3 months) but it was very intense emotionally. We went as far as dropping the “L” bomb and talking about a possible future together. But in the end it all turned out to be a lie.

I think many sbs break the cardinal rule: intimacy before allowance… Then they wonder how to get an allowance out of the man… Its a fallacy in our thinking … I have converted two “man of means” into sds thus far… My “success” is due to the fact that I withheld intimacy until something was in place … Recently I met another man of means with whom I broke the cardinal rule … Sadly he never agreed on an allowance (I never bothered because I knew the answer) … Lesson learned … Thankfully the sex was amazing and I was in a drought so no regrets … However, if I had to do it all over again and my goal was an allowance the intimacy would have been avoided

Just leaving work now so off to bed I go

ARCTIC SDsays:

Dandelion: Are you referring to an altruist here or an SD/SM? I thought an arrangement is supposed to be beneficial for both so what control are we talking about. Both have control of the sugar they can partake.

Dandelion, actually the opposite happened, the benefactor not only took control of her own life she also took control of and began controlling mine as well.

Dandelion Winesays:

PS: when you are willing to help but not control, it will become almost impossible to take advantage of your kindness as well.
Disattachment from the outcome ensures that you do not give more than you are truly comfortable with, because you cannot be baited into giving more than what you want to give by promises of change, control, gratitude, etc etc

Dandelion Winesays:

I dare to infer that the protege becomes not so much unwilling to accept the help as he/she becomes no longer willing to grant the benefactor the control of his/her life that the benefactor develops to feel entitled to.
When you are willing to help but not control, your help will not be turned down.

Stormcat: That was more than profound. It is almost enlightenment. We need to change the pace here….Is everyone at the party tonite or what. You can hear a pin drop.

Well yah duh Stormcat that was really profound!

Artic, NY Gent If I might chime in to this interesting conversation, White Knight Syndrome is in reality an addictive drug. The antidote is to be so successful at it that the benifactor becomes completely independant and no longer needs or wants your help any more. They can be so antagonistic and demeaning at that stage that white knight syndrome loses its effect.

ARCTIC SDsays:

NYG: The first chance, or as I call it giving a clean piece of paper and let them smudge it. When do we remove that piece of paper and say enough is enough? Drawing that line in the sand that is always shifting is definitely not an easy task.

Perhaps we should go back and ask why do we do it? Would’nt that be better looking for the cause rather than when do we stop the pain?

Artic: not pretentious at all.

I’m not sure we really disagree. I guess I would sum it up by saying i’m not afraid to give people the benefit of the doubt, what I’ll call “first chances.” Where I sometimes go wrong is being too willing to give second, and third, chances (or more). Drawing that line in the sand beyond giving a legitimate first chance, and being a chump on second, third, etc., is a learning process. And remember the adage: no good deed goes unpunished!

ARCTIC SDsays:

NYG: Perhaps this may sound pretentious but I did not realised I am inflicted with the same “burden” until my shrink pronounced me such after my tumultumous divorce 15 years ago.

Okay confession time………forgive me father I have sin……

The knight in shining armour affliction gave me such a tremendous rush of wanting to take care of this lady whom I met during my holidays in Tuscany one hot summer and I married her and brought her back to the Tundra land. Little do I know that the feeling of “superman feat” of wanting and able to care and protect her can only go so far when she herself is way beyond my help. Eventually, my strength can no longer keep up with her heavy demand for support from her mental illness and I had to admit defeat. Badly bruised, I barely made it out only to be sucked in again on the ground of “abandonment”, so her lawyer claimed.

You see, I had an ocean of ladies to chose from but yet I took the long and ardous way to seek out the one from far away thinking that perhaps, I the “great white knight” will be able to soothe her life out.

The lesson after 2 years of therapy and some self discovery is that we have more control over our actions than we realised. The “white knight” syndrome is a rush to feed our need to be needed thus rendering ourself a feeling of self worthiness.

Believe me, the urges are always there but I always need to put it in check by asking is my “giving’ action really my need to feel good or is it really I care for that lady.

ARCTIC SDsays:

NYG: I am not too sure I fully agree with you. Any SBs out there who want chime in.

There is no doubt there will be lots of opposite sex that would love to “exploit”, perhaps to harsh a word?, to advantage themselves with a the true “spoiler man”, but lets be truthful to ourselves here, have we been seeking the wrong type of SBs in the first place?

arctic: i agree with you, in general. but if one sticks to the “in the right company” theory of who we want to reveal our “real self” to, I’m afraid we will find very rare company indeed on this site (and maybe IRL also).

ARCTIC SDsays:

NYG – you can “act” so much but at the end of the day, you are who you are. You just cannot remove the spot from a leopard. Instead of assuming the “sensitive” and “knight in shining armour” demeanor being a weakness, why not turn it into a strength which you get to let out to the right company.

We get to chose who we want to be so why could’nt we chose when we want our real self to come out and to whom?

Stormcat and SincereSd: you’re so right about that white knight, hopelessly romantic business (at least for some of us). And agree with Michael on the “ears” comment.

It seems like the more “sensitive” and “sentimental” SDs on the site gravitate toward the blog, while the jerks and a____s don’t (ok, there have been a few, but not many)

But the romantic strategy is, alas, a poor one here, I’ve come to conclude. It’s difficult advice to tell people they have to try to be somebody they really aren’t, but sometimes you just have to do that to succeed. It’s called “acting.”

Rubysays:

@NC gent

I’m sure you’re right. I’m not that naive to think that there isn’t something dodgy about him. Or even completly off. He has however, since been more open in his emails. And when I asked for pictures he sent a few and I find him very attractive (something I usually don’t even think about).
It would be kind of nice to go to coffee with someone I truly fancied.
Even if he is a waste of time as a SD. And then, if we meet & he looks -nothing- like his picture, I’ll suck down my coffee and get back on the train. Finito.

…..Am I being silly?

NY Gent – Sales 101. You have 2 ears and 1 mouth. Use them in that proportion. Ask questions, be curious, give them a drink or two, and people open up like you would not believe. It is a never-ending source of fascination to me.

Plus, it is a fantastic screening technique – let them talk long enough, and they will eventually get themselves into trouble. Silence is wonderful – people always try and fill it and say things that they regret later. They reveal themselves in a way that they would not normally.

@Carebear – since you so politely asked, this week the highlights will be
– cooking dinner for my main squeeze Thursday night (seafood risotto this time), melon with sorbet, choice of un-oaked chardonnay or a cheeky little riesling
– doing a ton of exercise as I have to keep my god-like physique in shape somehow
– helping my daughter with homework, volleyball training, plus attempting to get her to clean up her room – an all-week and probably useless effort on my part.

No steak, but I am sure that I will introduce myself to a nice bottle of red at some stage during the week. Probably tonight actually.

Re the Questions:
What are your opinions about sugar daddies leaving their wives for sugar babies?
They’ll get over it, generally quickly, and with a heavy heart and a lighter wallet.

Have you ever met a sugar who you would change your life to be with? How far would you go?
I think that just by starting an arrangement you are changing your life. You bring a new person into your life, you spend time with them, influence them and they influence you. If the question is – would I throw everything up i the air to be with a SB? Possibly. I believe in love, and am more than happy to pursue it across the world. The benefits of a great relationship are worth the risk. When I met my wife – no, she wasn’t a SB, but cost me even more! – she lived in the USA and I was in Australia. Sold my house, car etc and I moved to Tokyo to be with her.

My last SB who caused me all the grief – well, I caused myself grief – yep, I would have followed her if it had to continue to evolve. But the the dishonesty was uncovered….

How has your sugar life been lately?
Pretty good. Life is always interesting, even when it is not. I have shut off #2 a few weeks ago and am focusing on #1.

Carebear: I’m always surprised when I hear how many women say that the guy on the date talked only about himself and dominated the convo. Maybe I shouldn’t be surprised, as it seems to be quite common. I usually try to get the woman talking about herself to the point where she sometimes turns and says, “we’ve been talking all about me, what about you?” I can’t say it’s a winning strategy, but it’s a strategy that some women find refreshing and mysterious. On the other hand some take it as a sign that you’re hiding something (maybe I am!)

How common is it for a married SD’s wife to be aware of the SB? Have any of you receive negative contact from the wife? How do you manage that risk?

Coco_TXSBsays:

Everyone ~ Just to make things clear…i didn’t meet my “Married Guy” from SA or any of the SD sites. I was just trying to get some advise from those ( if any) who’ve had an affair with an individual ( whether single or married) and ended up converting the relationship to a SD/SB relationship. I appreciate all responses ( both negative and positive)….After all, this is what the Sugar Blog is all about.

GURU ~ Thanks for the insight. I might as well enjoy the ride while I look for a real SD.

I’m glad somebody gets my sense of humor!

those potential pitfalls are more a reflection of human nature than something that makes the task harder for genuine SDs and SBs.

My unintended consequences comment was from the perspective of seeing so many SB’s complaining about how some pot SD’s thought taking a SB out to a nice date is all it takes to be a SD. While a-doc and Coco’s situation probably don’t fall into the category of being taken advantage of by predatory men, the unintended consequence of them accepting what they got is to further perpetuate the mis-conception of what it takes to be a SD.

NC Gentsays:

Ruby — you should be reaching for your ear plugs as you read this because the alarm bells are annoyingly loud. You wouldn’t put up with a “hey let’s meet” email in real life dating, and you shouldn’t put up with it in sugar dating. He already has admitted that he has misleading information in his profile. You will likely never see him again if you meet with him. As you suggested, you need to find someone who will take the time to get to know you before you meet.

carebearsays:

Oh no the L BOMB everyone take cover!

Did anyone ever admit to going to the sugar party tonight?

On my way to dinner at my fave manhattan steakhouse with a pot sd. We have had a ton of chemistry until he recently decided that he would dominate the conversations talking on and on about himself. Oh well. At least ill have a bottle of wine and a good slab of meat in front of me to wash him down.

Its so ugly out I wouldn’t have the energy for party mode tonight.

So it looks like its me, ke$ha, pink floyd, and an hour and a half of traffic. What’s everyone else up to this week?

Rubysays:

Quick question here SB’s (or SD’s)

Is it common, or strange for a pot. SD to send an email saying “Hey, you have pretty eyes, lets meet” (basically).
Maybe its just because the last few times I’be had quite a few emails pass with information before the meet and this time its just…bam.

I suppose in a way I like it. But he’s one of those guys who has $20,000 monthly allowance on their profile which is…well…unrealistic. I questioned him on his true budget and he said $5,000 a month.

And on his profile it say’s Australia but he said he’s in London now and wants to meet me next weekend (which is when I’m next free)

Now. Should this be screaming alarm bells in my head? Or should I just go along with it and see…after all, it is just coffee.

SDinLAsays:

Re: unintended consequences, I don’t think either aspiring-doc or Coco’s situations really have a material affect on the landscape at large, the harsh reality is that what most of us here would define as a real “arrangement” is already a fairly narrow subset of the spectrum of relationships.

Unfortunately, there are plenty of predatory men out there just looking to take advantage of a woman, and plenty of women with low enough self esteem or in desperate enough financial straits to fall victim. And conversely, there are plenty of manipulative women looking to take advantage of vulnerable men for their money as well. You’re going to find those kinds of people on SA.com just as you do in the real world, and I don’t think that’s going to change, so those potential pitfalls are more a reflection of human nature than something that makes the task harder for genuine SDs and SBs.

Lily: Was your question re: the big day in the previous blog directed in this direction? If so, haven’t set one yet, and we may not. She’s not actually very big on the institution of marriage, and she has her own money, so if we do actually get married it will be more for death tax reasons than anything else since she is significantly younger than I am (is that a surprise? ;-))

nygent: I had a severe case of “White Knight Syndrome” for a while, it’s quite common in SDs. It can be very dangerous for your heart and wallet. Best of luck, the good news is that there is a cure.

SincereSD: see my comment to nygent… that applies to you in spades too!!! 😉

Michael Alleycatsays:

A-doc – uh oh, I think I hear the L-bomb coming….

aspiring-docsays:

@sd guru: yes pherhaps. Looking for girfriends is a reason? I didnt find him on seeking arrangement. I guess the age gap is dangerously small for him to be a sd and it not to get messy.
I dont know- maybe hes tricking me- but hes invested alot of time trying to convince me he wasnt. mmmmm i dont know- he just makes me feel safe.

SincereSD — as most said, I think she is just using it as an excuse to get out of the arrangement, and isn’t mature enough to say that directly. Next!

reddamsel38says:

WOW I’ve learned a lot on this site. Thank You! ( the list is too long to thank everyone) :)!!!!!

reddamsel38says:

Good Morning sugarland.
I wouldn’t want a married SD to leave his wife for me. I wouldn’t feel comfortable at all. There would have to be certain circumstances involved. Is he seperated, or still married living under the same roof? Are we really in love with one another or is it just the ease of our relationship between one another? Meaning is it easier for him to be with me than his wife? That is not enough to leave your wife. I think that is why for me it’s hard to figure out if I would rather have a single or married SD. With a married SD, you won’t have to worry too much about spending so much time with a married SD, but with a single SD you probably would. I also think most married SDs have more experience, which is a good thing with my lack of experience. I can kind of take my cues from a SD that is more experienced and has better communication about this subject. But you have to use caution because the SD may have experience but could also take advantage if the SB doesn’t know what she wants and knows how to communicate that.

Belasays:

@a-doc….I can already see this in your words. The feelings developing. Finances or no, there’s something to be said about the feel of safety. I was once with a man with whom I had very little in common, but during a time when things were a little rocky, the sense of security was very strong.

@other romantic SD’s – I wish you could communicate those thoughts and views with others. There are so many who only see you as a booty call that it really just gets old and frustrating after a while.

@aspiring-doc

Congratulations, you’ve got yourself a boyfriend!!

Whether that’s what you really want or not, that’s what you got. Maybe he’ll still turn out to be a SD in some way some day, but for now if you’re happy with the situation then why not enjoy the ride. Good luck!

@Coco_TXSB

Congratulations, you’ve got yourself an affair with a married man!

Whether that’s what you really want or not, that’s what you got. Maybe he’ll still turn out to be a SD in some way some day, but for now if you’re happy with the situation then why not enjoy the ride.

Ooops… is there an echo in here?

So after 11 months you’d like more from him in terms of time and sugar. But why should he buy the cow when he’s already getting the milk for free? My hunch is that the time may have passed and you need to decide for yourself whether it’s something you want to continue. Good luck!

———————-

As an aside, these two situations are examples of why men go on sa.com to look for girlfriends and have affairs without providing sugar. Apparently it can be done and it’s not that rare. As I have said before, how anyone wants to handle their relationship is none of my business. But the unintended consequences is that this will make it harder for other SB’s to find real SD’s.

aspiring-docsays:

@coco_txsd- best of luck sweetie!

Heres a twist.

mr.coin was in auckland tonight and he gave me a ring.I told him i didnt wish to see him but he asked if he could stop by under pretense of needing his coin. He dropped by around 10 and I was still in tears about this assignment and attempting to start the next one. yes tears and stress do that…and yet blogging is therapuetic especially when i cant sleep.

So I answer the door and my eyes are red- and hes asked “whats was wrong’. I reply unconvincingly “nothing at all”…and he sits down with me, makes me a coffee and waits for me to talk. Its something about how sincere he was with me that made me spurt everything out. he hugged me and made me feel like it wasn’t such a big deal- even if that 3% means redoing the paper.

onrmally men offer unhelpful advice, but he was so wise and calming and supportive. He then handed me some ‘grocery’ money and told me to make sure i had a decent food shop ;). He made me laugh and kissed me gently on the forehead before leaving.

Yes it was a drama filled month- but something in me feels safe with him. Hes not a sugar daddy but he didn’t lie to me. He just hit a trough like we all do. Oh incredibly coincidental but he came through in the end.

Hes still a good catch when it comes to regular dating…and not just because he has a house and good future earning prospects. He makes me happy. and part of the reason i wanted to believe him, was because he made me so happy.

hmmm maybe im crazy…or maybe this is the real thing. Its such a strange prospect and yet even after ditching him, i couldn’t get him out of my mind. Part of me thinks- something must be awry…why would a 31 year old be a sugar daddy? but maybe hes right- initially he said he didnt want strings and didnt want to hurt anyone by leading them on.
Apparently i changed that…………hmm.

Lilysays:

That’s a relationship/affair, but he is an unfaithful husband, nothing more.
Here’s hoping he turns into an SD! I have lots of ideas on how to do thar but ask NYC sb instead—she has had actual success in turning the affections of a pre-SD into an arrangement situation.

Coco_TXSBsays:

SD Guru ~ I guess I shouldn’t call him a SD ( a pre-SD may sound better as Lily suggested ). He doesn’t provide an allowance nor does he bring gifts but, he always pays for the baby sitter and takes me to dinner every time he’s in town.

aspiring-docsays:

@Michael- I KNOW! Im going to have to grovel for 3 measly percent or I wont get through- This is what happens when the government wont help you and expects u to be OKAY undertaking a medical degree. My parents dont support me……….ahhhhhhhhhhhhhh…………..hence the sugar daddy hunt- which takes up time i need for study- and then they poof- and then i rant on here- and -sigh-. Its an all nighter tonight- I better get cracking.

Sorry blog!

photogirlsays:

Michael Alleycat always love your formulas Sincere knowing the history between you two, I really think it’s time to move on…and her little drama queen ‘Leave me alone’ response is ridiculous! You have gone above and beyond with her and from what you have told me this is NOT a mutually beneficial relationship…she causes you too much stress!

Hello everyone! It’s been awhile.

i thought it was harold and maude?? very weird movie. i saw it at a showing in bryant park last summer. got to lay on the grass and look up at the stars and watch a movie in the middle of the city. oh and get yelled at by the homeless people.

i <3 ny.

Lilysays:

NYC SB – yes!! SweetEuropean would know just what to say to get the concept through to this pre-SD!

No only do I need to catch up from the previous blog, there are lots of good stuff in this one too. The blog topic is near and dear to my heart and I’ll address it in another post. As usual, sorry for the long post!

@carebearI want sd guru to analyze everything I do in my life.

Really? Be careful of what you wish for! But seriously, if someone is willing to share the details of their sugar relationship with the blog, then it’s up to the bloggers to return the favor and offer their opinion/analysis so that we can all learn from each other.

I vote sd guru president of sugarland.

I’m not running for office and this is not a popularity contest!

tell me i’m sane.

You and Stormcat are both sane. One person’s reality is another person’s fantasy. To each his/her own.

@Bicentennial BabyTo the SD’s out there, how do you guys feel about “the look” you get when you are seen with a much younger and beautiful SB?? Is it embarassing? Slightly hot? Or do you just not notice it?

The only looks I get are the looks of envy and jealousy at what a great looking couple we are!

@smitten_kittenFor the record him and I are still on for sunday night.

How did it go? Details please!

@LACollegeBabyI have a great sd who is kinda too clingy, so I don’t know how it will turn out. But I’m happy we met and I look forward to seeing how things pan out.

Let me first say that you’ve handled yourself pretty well in the blog, which is more than I can say for some newbies. Based on your statement above it gives me hope that your relationship still has a chance to succeed.

Perhaps in his eagerness to impress you and his naivete about how a sugar relationship works, your SD may have felt that he spent too much too soon. Therefore he’s made promises he can’t keep and acting like having buyer’s remorse. Being new yourself, you’ve taken whatever he’s willing to offer and perhaps raised your expectations to unrealistic levels. If either one of you are more experienced in the sugar world then I don’t think it would have gotten to this stage.

I think what’s important now is to have an open and honest discussion about each other’s expectations and boundaries. If he avoids the subject, then you need to take it upon yourself to make sure it happens because the future of your relationship (and the sugar) depends on it. It’s better to clear the air now than to let the mistrust and gamesmanship fester and lead to more drama. This is one of the key differences between sugar dating and regular dating.

I have more to say but I’ll stop here. Feel free to email me through my blog.

@SincereSDAt the risk of leading the witness, I expected the majority of bloggers to say…

It appears that you knew what kind of answers you’d get from the blog before you asked the question, so I’m not sure the discussion about whether to provide the allowance in advance was all that useful.

I was thinking WTF as we have been together for more than 6 months … and it was a surprise she did not understand the arrangement.

Despite the details you’ve provided so far, it’s still not clear to me as to exactly what transpired that led you to this point. Either way, you don’t get to the six month point without having done something right, or misunderstanding like this would have happened sooner.

Moral of my story is to make the arrangement clear before proceeding…

After you’ve been in a sugar relationship for a while and it’s working well, it may become necessary to re-negotiate the arrangement due to change in circumstances. It appears that something broke down during this process in your case. If you’ve reached out to her and she’s not receptive, then there is not much more you can do but to move on.

@TorrinI’m a newbie to the site, is there a thread for us to ask those silly questions that have been answered dozens of times before?

Feel free to ask away! Also take a look at the “pages” section of the blog for some popular topics. You can find it at the lower right hand side of the blog’s home page.

@NYGentI guess I’m not asking for advice, though anyone is free to give it, so much as relating a bizarre story that some may find interesting and a bit offbeat.

You get the award for most bizarre story of the day! But seriously, it’s not clear to me what you had hoped to accomplish. In any given situation you can evaluate it in terms of risk vs reward. In this case I see plenty of potential risks but not much up side, so I wonder what compelled you to do what you did?

@Coco_TXSBI’ve been seeing a married SD for 11 months now and it hasn’t been an arrangement type of thing.

You called him a SD and wrote about the advantages of seeing him, but yet there is no arrangement after 11 months. Has he provided any sugar financially or in some other ways? If not, why did you call him a SD?

@Lilywhen I meet someone I really like, all the jadedness, wisdom, or just plain thinking goes out the window & I throw my all into it, full of hope. I know that’s dangerous, but I’m tough & can handle the heartbreak and I don’t want to change

People who take this approach are usually more prone to the emotional ups and downs of a relationship. It’s dangerous because the other person may not reciprocate, but if you know what you’re doing and can handle the consequences then go for it.

Lilysays:

Brilliant point, Dandelion!!

Yes. That. It’s really not fair for a gent to wanna be a carefree bachelor for 30-40 years (since puberty), and then during his last 15-25 years as his body declines & his mind winds down, suddenly throw a family together just so he can have people to care about him & suffer his loss when he gets old and, eventually, passes away.

Children (& spouses) deserve more of his earthly allotment of good years, energy, & good health.

A-doc – this should not be happening!!

Lilysays:

I was just making the point that there is something to the romantic ideal of meeting at your physical peak, having adventures, raising a family together, and then enjoying a second wave of adventures when the kids are out of the house but the couple is still young enough to live out dreams put on hold while the kids were little, and then enjoying a gradual decline of action & comfortable relaxation of watching kids & grandkids pursue their dreams, during the golden years of retirement. And, finally, being there for one another as old age causes physical deterioration and/or illness to become an issue, to play the role of caregiver, if that happens.

I am not saying that there arent exceptions to the traditional mould that I just described, just that those exceptions are so noteworthy (& interesting movie fodder) because they are unusual. They, in fact, prove the rule.

My point is that it’s not un-romantic to have your radar shut off to potential life partner candidates to those more than 10-15 years your senior/junior. It’s a different romantic ideal to want to share the *bulk* of your life with someone. If you only pursue romance with those in your age vicinity, then you are self selecting that the one you eventually decide is the ‘one,’ will not be of a different generation. This is different than falling passionately in love and then walking away because of the age gap.

I’m just backing up the sanity of carebear’s point. I think there’s also romance to the reasoning, the way I just described.

Dandelion Winesays:

Ms. Taken, “12 great years” is a bit of a selfish concept when it comes to children growing up either without a father, or with a father that is unable to participate in their life due to health issues, don’t you think?
I don’t know how about you, but for *my* children I would like an opportunity to grow up, go to college, have fun, find themselves, get their life going etc, without wasting their formative years in grief and confusion over the death of a parent, or having to miss out on life because they are burdened with care of someone who may I point out most likely had all the fun to be had in his youth.

NYC SB Once every 2 months would not work for me as I’m not dating anyone else besides him. That’s why I need an SD or talk him into being an SD with an arrangement.

Also, when I was 20 I had an affair with a 27 year old married woman. I asked her to leave her husband for me and when she refused I took it as treason to our love! What a fool I was then! Amazing! I haven’t thought about that for years! What a fool I was! Maybe I still am!

Andy and Mod is about a teenage boy and a 70 + year old woman who meet and fall in love. It is a beautiful story. About whether I could fall for a woman 20 years my senior I did once when I was in my late 30s. but she was the one who couldn’t deal woith the age difference! Strange how social norms pressure us to accept younger women falling in love with older men yet reject the notion that a younger man could fall in love with an older woman.

NYGent ~ I suspect you are a hopeless romantic who wishes to be a Knight in shining armor who saves a beutiful princess and as a result is rewarded with having her in your life, eternally grateful, forever after. Well it is probably an admission against interest but, me too! And the thing is that it doesn’t work that way. However all hopeless romantics keep trying and somehow against all odds it works out that way once in a while. Otherwise there is no material for movies, plays and books.

I am reading 3 times a month and am getting jealous … Mine is more like once every 2 months and we live in the same city-ish

Coco_TXSBsays:

Hello Sugars…

Have been lurking lately….but thought i’d get a little advise!

I’ve been seeing a married SD for 11 months now and it hasn’t been an arrangement type of thing. He lives in a different city and comes to my city for business, at least 1 x a month ( if not 2 x).

We had an amazing chemistry from the beginning and we still have that amazing connection. He’s 19 years my senior and our intimacy is amazing.

The Advantage:
1) He travels to see me, even when he’s not down here for business. I don’t have to travel to

2) Takes me out to great restaurants and we always have a great time. He always spends the night and he has to be home by Friday night.

3) Very Romantic and gives me his undivided attention when we’re together. He don’t act like a married man when we’re in public and treats me with respect at all times.

The Disadvantage:
1) I don’t get to see him as often as I would like ( at least 3 times a month)…since he travels to other cities.

Here’s my thing:
~ I would really like for him to be available more often ( which is less likely to happen due to his work and besides, we don’t want his wife to be very suspicious of his frequent trips to my city – His wife found out a few years ago about him having a 3 year affair with another girl…pheewww)

~ I only see him once a month and I would like to talk to him about transforming this into an Arrangement kinda thing because I know that he’s financially stable and capable of doing so.

My question: Has anyone ever been in such a relationship that turned into an SD/SB arrangement? If so, how did the other individual react to the change? Did the relationship last?

Thanks Sugars…BTW, I love all of you…..this blog is my daily newspaper!

sensitivebear is ok every now and then. if we all stay in this spineless world for too long we lose our sensitivity.

Rubysays:

@NYGent
Haha, I too was waiting on some disastrous ending there! Glad to know it turned out okay though.

But…a little disappointed – anyone got a truly horrid story they’d like to share? 😉 Actually no. I’ve just been messed around by an SD who I thought everything was going well with. Severe disappointment & feeling a little jaded (and broke!) now.
Success stories would be nice!

lily ~ have you seen the film Andy and Mod?

thanks ms. taken. I really wasn’t worried about her ripping me off big time — she’d given me her real name and I checked it out, and her new employer which I also checked out, and she was “legit.” I live in a doorman apt. and nobody can just walk out with a bunch of stuff. Maybe I should have been more careful, I just think she is looking for a different type of guy than me and while she enjoyed my company and hospitality she is going in another direction and thank you very much for the $80 (although come to think of it she never did thank for me for anything!)

Ms. Takensays:

@NYGent~I was so anxious reading your story waiting for the part where she vanishes with all your furniture. Whew! You have no idea how relieved I was that she just took herself. Even now when you look back on that situation, do you see how she could have ripped you off?

I know you’re not looking for advice, NYGent, but you really shouldn’t ignore the signs. It would be a shame spending all those years honing your instincts then willfully ignore then.

You must have this really over-worked angel (or two) looking out for you 😉

I hesitate to tell this story about another weird adventure since I know i will get grief from some old-timers, but here goes:

I saw a profile for an SB who acknowledged she had a very unusual situation — she didn’t really want an SD relationship (or it was very secondary) but she was moving to NYC and wanted to find a place to rent and stay with someone for which she would pay herself. That struck me as likely a ruse, but her profile was otherwise interesting so I struck up an email correspondence with her. We seemed to connect intellectually. I told her I wasn’t really in a position to offer a long-term stay, but if she found herself in need of a place to flop for a couple days to let me know. A couple weeks later she took me up on it, we met for dinner the other night (nice place, nice conversation) and she stayed one night (no hanky panky), asking if she could stay one more. I said sure. She also said she’d stayed at a hostel a few nights before and someone stole her purse, containing her passport, other IDs, and all her money and credit cards, when she left them with the desk person in an unsecured manner. Again, I was skeptical of this story (nobody can be that stupid), but I didn’t want to accuse her of lying to her face. Of course, in the face of such a story, unable to rebut it, I felt compelled to offer a little spending money to tide her over (don’t worry NYC SB/Midwest, it wasn’t a bundle, just $80 bucks). In the meantime, she had changed her profile to no mention of needing a place to stay, and instead a standard request for an SD and financial assistance (5-10K/mo.). A bit of a red flag given her original profile, but then I took the original with a grain of salt.

So as I said she stayed the night, was still asleep when I left for work, and when I got home she had vanished, no note, no nothing, her stuff gone. I texted her and jokingly said I didn’t realize i had been such a lame host to cause her to flee the premises. She texted back saying she hadn’t had time to leave a note bec. she was going away with friends for the weekend, but she wanted to see me again when she got back.

She told me when we were at dinner that she had no internet access, but she has been online every time I’ve logged into the site since, with her new profile. If she does ever contact me again I’m not inclined to respond positively.

I guess I’m not asking for advice, though anyone is free to give it, so much as relating a bizarre story that some may find interesting and a bit offbeat. All it really says is that there are many different strategies people on the site choose to pursue.

stephansays:

Carebear! No you’re the one who’s post I saw (on your blog) and so identified with, and definitely not angrybear! I was being sensativebear earlier. hehe. I am alllways up for pie (might eat some IRL tonight) 😀

Thanks stormcat. I’m using that.

Michael, please finish….what else were you going to do to me??

Stephan! See I’m not an angry carebear like you thought. <3 Lets have pie.

FL-SDsays:

@SincereSD: I agree with others before. Allowance always in advance… whether 2X / month or monthly. Money issues I like to confirm via email so there’s really no misunderstanding. That said, your sb is giving clear indications of either being in financial trouble that she chooses not to deal with straight-forwardly, or she’s looking for a way to end it without telling you that in so many words. Perhaps she’s angling for a severance stipend.

Lily-Do you think having 12 great years count for something then going on to have another 20 with someone else? I just think the quality of the relationship is what matters – in both sugar and IRL.

Lilysays:

Storm- so if 20-30 years mean nothing, do you also consider the flip side: dating women in their 70s-80s, —*if* it were true love?
Have you considered that when there is a huge age gap like that, the romantic notion of ‘growing old together’ is not even a goal to strive for, anymore? The 23 yr old who settles down with the 56 year old is likely to be a thirtysomething widow, unless her older husband beats the statistical odds & outlives his life expectancy. Does true love work that way? Across generations, leaving someone (well, in this example, the lady) with 50 years alone after their older partner passes on? It doesn’t seem ideal, anyways.

OMG Uncle is calling and I’m MIA! OK well better late than never.

OK so this rather unattractive guy goes up to an attractive elegant married lady, opens a briefcase with a million $ and says this is all yours if you’ll have sex with me. She takes him to the nearest bathroom and uhums him and he gives her the briefcase. Next day the same guy approaches tha same lady with another briefcase but this time requires her to spend a whole night in a hotel making love before he gives her the money. Next day the MIA husband comes home to a rather guilty feeling wife. She pounces in order to cover up her guild and he has the best sex with her that they have ever had togather. As they are laying ther in the afterglow he says ” I take it you got the $2 million that I sent!”

Rubysays:

@Nico & Alpha
Yeah! I was just thinking what a great line that is. I’ve always struggled explaining how Sugardating is actually not ‘shallow’ and very similar to IRL dating in certain ways, if not better and more honest.
And thats it in a nut shell. Relationships are about meeting your needs, and everyone has different needs – whether its money, having children, or being taller than 5ft 5 =)
Once people actually realise that then they might view sugardating very differently.

@Bela
I know! I think SD’s are like buses. You know the saying. Those dry periods usually get me down, and I’ll spend hours agonising over my profile trying to bring in more custom! Haha.
The more I think about it, the more like a business this whole thing seems to be.

stephansays:

@Carebear: LOL I just saw this post again while I was on your blog a minute ago, now I remember… I even made a comment on it I’m a little slow sometimes, so I actually had been to your blog before *eating a slice of humble pie*

@ Sweetpea4….Congrats…..if the sex is as you say it would seem as though you are so happy you’re ‘…jumping out of your pants’. Congrats on finding the one…or the ‘two’ 😉

Well I see alot here, I think it all depends on the situation, I have just met my new sugardaddy and I am sooo happy I could jump out of my pants!!! I have spent alot of time searching for Clean Decent men, I have been able to find 2 that are WONDERFUL. I think if they knew about each other it could be a problem. But my new man is wonderful and doesn not care to change his situation just as I don’t care to change mine. But the sex. OOOHHHH need I say more

Alpha1962says:

@LASugarBaby — I apologize if I came off as being overly harsh earlier on the “entitlement” issue.

I don’t think I am entitled to anything. I have been extraordinarily successful in my professional life, but I believe I have to continue to earn my success every day. I have the things I have in my life because I have busted my ass for years to get to where I am. Just like you have worked hard for your grades. But just because I have worked hard doesn’t make me “entitled” to be rich.

Don’t get me wrong, I love having a gorgeous woman in my life, I don’t think I deserve it because I have money.

Relationships are all about getting needs met. If I am meeting the needs of my partner, then I should expect that I get my needs met as well. And if my partner is meeting my needs, then I have an obligation to meet hers.

What appeals to me about an SD/SB relationship is hopefully the honesty with which you can discuss what you need and want from the relationship.

The entitlement attitude bothers me from either side. I am a decent looking 48yo. As entertaining as it may be to think that women will be attracted to me because of my boyish grin and my sense of humor, I know that the fact that I can be a provider is part of the equation. But having a fat wallet doesn’t entitle me to anything.

Belasays:

@Ruby – I’m definitely learning about the patience and perseverance. Things on this end are quite, but I’m not letting it discourage me. I’ve learned to focus on reading this blog to find out possible lessons from babies (women and men) who are experiencing the ups and downs of these arrangements.

It almost feels like a class or something.

Rubysays:

@Bela

You have to learn the rules before you can break them right? 😉

Rubysays:

@Alpha1962
I think thats a very nice, simple 3 steps there! Makes you wonder, how can it ever get more complicated then that eh!?

As much as we all like to think that the sugarbowl is drama free, different from IRL it’s certainly not the case, just by looking at the content of this blog! I think maybe its more a state which we are all aiming towards.
And of course, some of the lucky ones might have it that way.
But there’s still a lot of struggling to find the right arrangement, the right person, and the least hassle.
One thing which broke the rose-tint of being an SB for me was realising truly how much effort you must make. Patience and perseverance.

Best of luck to you Alpha in your hunt for sugar!

Belasays:

Alpha, Alleycat, and the other SD’s all make very good points.

Most women who are not adult enough to communicate when they want out of a relationship will do exactly what this SB is doing. She will pick a fight so that you can get frustrated enough with her that termination of any arrangement will occur. This way, she can say that you did it and she was the “victim.” No, it’s not right, but it’s a (shitty) method.

For me, I like communication, margins, rules. It lets me know what is expected of both parties without having to make it up as you go along. Once I know where my boundary lies, I can relax and have fun (and yes, of course, occasionally push those boundaries lol.)

Alpha1962says:

Fascinating dialogue here. As a new SD, I am learning a great deal.

In response to the question about allowances up front or in arrears… This is how I envision it might work (admitting that I haven’t done it yet).

1. Meet for drinks / dinner. SD pays for travel expenses, dinner, etc, perhaps a small gift for the lady, but nothing more.

2. If dinner drinks goes well, and the SD and SB agree that there is something worth pursuing, then whatever the arrangement is begins, with an allowance (if part of the arrangement) being paid in advance. I would probably front a month, but not more than that.

3. If a month or two goes by and all is going well, then I might think about longer term commitments like an apartment or a car. If I were going to do either of those, I would feel that I would need to make a multi-month, commitment. Not fair to the lady to decide one morning that I am no longer interested and say she has to move out and give back a car.

Having said that, the moment I concluded that I was being played, it would be a definite “next.”

Belasays:

Good Sunday Afternoon Sugars! Wow, people have been busy today

Nicosays:

LA College Baby….I would like to add (and support) where you’re at. While you’ve shared a lot about your situation it’s impossible for any of us to know all of the details and until we’re in that same situation we couldn’t say for certain how we would proceed.

My first ‘real’ SD was a very generous man. Provided a generous monthly allowance, gifts, help in remodeling my home and paid of a rather substantial amount of debt I took with me following my divorce. We were together for approx 6 months and were intimate ONCE during that six month time.

It should be noted that I did not ‘hold out’ ‘tease’ ‘torture’ ‘use him’. We spent overnights at his house but he gave me the guest bedroom. There was kissing and foreplay (at times) but no sex. I AM a very sexual person and would’ve loved to have had more but this was his preference and I honored it.

So, it’s very POSSIBLE that your SD derives much pleasure out of helping you, spending time with you and whatever feelings he gets from supporting you. While ‘sex’ is an important part of any relationship for most of us, it should be recognized that it is not for ALL of us.

As for your guy, I would suggest discussing with him the concerns you had re: him misleading you and affirm that it wasn’t so much about the availability of such funds as it was the mixed messages he was sending. You two are still learning each other and as long as you continue to be there for him it would seem to be a sweet and low maintenance relationship.

PS ~ My first SD and I still chat to this day and while there’s nothing between us we still have that friendship.

stephansays:

Sorry about misconstruing your comment!

There would indeed be no sugar if there was no love <3

Looks like I got in trouble.

There would be no sugar if there was no love! <3

I wasn't saying that the timing of the blogs were coincidental, only saying if anyone really cared for my unfiltered opinion, its available there.

Smackdown comment was in response to dandelion's wrestling commentary on adoc and i think michael's back and forth? I was trying to be funny and make a pun and obviously it failed miserably. Throw tomatoes at me.

Sincere, I apologize. No harshness meant. But yes I believe the majority of SB's expect confirmation up front. The gentleman should ask the lady on a date, the gentleman should pull her chair out, and the gentleman should call her after. Maybe I'm stuck in old fashioned ways though.

@Stephan / papabear – I think Carebear is a WWF wrestling kind of girl, hence the use of the term smackdown. Just an exuberant commentary, I am sure.

stephansays:

@Carebear: I just saw your blog, great job! Since it seems like you might have thought this blog perhaps may have taken your last blog’s idea to talk about marriage, I just wanted you to know that almost all the posts on this blog address marriage in some way. I hadn’t seen your blog before you posted the above comment today. I promise not to ‘steal’ your topics Topics like ‘marriage’ and ‘dating’ and ‘sugar daddies’ are all pretty common in the sugar bowl… 😛

to all:

We’re not about “SMACKINGDOWN” opinions here. If you don’t agree, please do freely state how you feel and offer any advice.

Sugar family love

SMACKDOWN by the dandelion. you read my mind.

i have a cardinal rule that allowance comes first, as do most sb’s i believe. obviously we’ve all been burned in some way or another, and yeah the sd may lose out by putting up first, but the sd’s should be in a much more liberal state financially and can afford to take a loss, vs the sb selling herself short.

deardaddy-thank you for the comments about my blog…..ironic that my latest post is about marriage and then this is the newest blog topic.

Dandelion Winesays:

Sincere, you do realize that with the amount of detail given it is impossible for the bloggers to figure out who is at fault in your situation, right?
Yet you are asking questions that are clearly not rhetorical in nature. What is the purpose? Are you going then to refer your SB to the blog as the proof that you are right and she is wrong?

LACollegebabysays:

@Michael, no I don’t have a bf on the side, so he is not getting any but neither am I.

@NyGent, man you guys are good at this. Lol, I didn’t say torture as in I am trying to torture him, I said it as in since everyone is making a huge deal about him only getting a few kisses, so I guess that’s what I’m doing to him. I also meant it as in I know he wants to, of course bc he is a man and just because of the rltp title alone, but he is not getting it yet so it must b kinda hard on him, no pun intented. Good q…I don’t have a set time to start being intimate, yet I don’t plan on not doing it. To be honest, I’m thinking once the apt is set up and he gets to visit me there. That is kinda the unspoken plan. At the same time, its not like I’m gonna move in, get settled and then be with him the night the furniture is put in. Bc then that makes it even more like “sex equals money” and vice versa, if that makes sense. But being that there is no time frame, it technically could happen that way, or it could happen after a month of living there. Idk yet, but my goal is definitely not to mislead him or anything, nor is it go give him blue balls.

You guys raise some other qs for me now. I am not a very sexual person at all. Maybe this seems so normal to me bc I seriously can live without sex. It’s never been a big deal to me to have bfs and not have sex right away or at all. And I’ve always done it when ready. I can enjoy it with the right person, but its always been sooo secondary to me. Maybe being a sb with this mentality will lead to a tough time finding others sds in the future. For now though, I am lucky to have met him I guess. Bc it seems like a lot o sds would’ve bailed already had they come across a girl like me. I understand why though.

MofUstudentsays:

well i can say that it does not happen often.

Though many married men DO have mistresses, that’s a fact.
But if you think about it, we SBs have our whole life in front of us! Our married SD counterpart does not have the freedom we do as young single SBs. So thinking that He would throw everything away for a SB is just crazy.
But! you can keep Him around if you keep “The Chase” active. lol

Alleycat- awesome mathematical formula. Right on!

Michael Alleycatsays:

Drama + poor communication + WTF = next!!

What are your opinions about sugar daddies leaving their wives for sugar babies?

That doesn’t happen. Sds who leave their wives, do so because they don’t want to be with them anymore. I suspect that more often the scenario is that the wife leaves the sd when she finds out that he is an sd. That is what happened with me. Also, the question could be posed in reverse, about sbs leaving their husbands for an sd, but the answer would probably be the same.

Have you ever met a sugar who you would change your life to be with? How far would you go?
I’ve met many sbs now and have had arrangements with several, but still don’t consider myself as experienced enough to entirely answer this question. First all the sbs that I have met or communicated with have changed my in one way or another. Also, I can say that two dramatically changed my life, but, that I wouldn’t have gone much further than the having an arrangement with them. However, one changed my life completely and I would have given everything, and still would, to be with her. I think then that the answer it that it is possible and there are examples of it, like Lady I and OC Sugarbaby, but finding true love in sugarland is really quite rare.

Rubysays:

@SincereSD

Another yes vote over here for moving on. There’s one word for this – Messy.
Messy, messy, messy. I’m suprised its managed to go on for 6 months? Maybe we’re still not hearing the full story but it doesn’t sound good so far. By your account you’ve been more than generous and kept up your side of things but she just sounds…well, like a bit of a brat. Michael Alleycat might be right in saying she’s just looking for a way to end things.
Or maybe she’s just a drama queen. Either way, it doesn’t sound good.
Move on to someone better who will appreciate you!

SincereSD: I agree with the others, she is using the $$ drama as a pretext for wanting to end the relationship. Time to move on.

As for arrangements I always pay it forward. You do get burned this way, occasionally, or even more than occasionally, but there doesn’t seem to be much other way to do it. I don’t find the “do better screening” advice to be of much use. Kind of like the baseball manager who walks to the mound and says to the pitcher, “Throw more strikes.”

Ms. Takensays:

OK, still a little fuzzy but here’s my take. Why are you still talking about money six month in? Are you guys ending a trial period? Was it going so well you decided to transition from p4p to allowance?

Anyway, it sounds like too much drama perhaps caused by lack of communication. She’s giving you a hint – take it and “leave her alone”, NEXT. Sounds like the relationship was on its last legs though, communication had broken down and trust was eroded; was it?

(Now for what you REALLY want to know) No, you’re not crazy. You sound like the reasonable one here.. Some people are just downright unreasonable. You were a saint to put up with what turned out to be too much DRAMA. And yes, she was lucky to have you 😉

@SincereSD – next!

You have been together for 6 months, and this drama is now coming out. She is changing the frequency of when you get together. She has not been comfortable in talking about the financial side, but freaks out when it is laid out in front of her. She seems to have a problem in discussing things openly.

My call is that there is something else wrong in her life, and she wants to end the arrangement but does not have the courage to openly talk it through with you, and end it that way. It seems that she is causing drama and blaming you for the problems, and thus avoiding taking responsibility or accountability for the situation. Best form of defense is attack.

Based on your comment, you have laid it all out quite clearly, but still there is drama re the $$. I would also suggest there is drama in many other parts of her life, as well as drama in other parts of your relationship with her.

I have always provided the allowance in advance or pay it forward. The amount I gave her yesterday covers the 1st half of October.

Trust should not even be an issue because it just gave her extra to cover her tuition.

ARCTIC SDsays:

Sinceresd: Obviously there seem to be some breakdown of acknowledgement on her part. In my case, I try to maintain financial dialogue with my SB every time we meet ( 2 weekends a month) but in a very subtle way where it does not sound like a business transaction. I put it in a way that sound like I am concerned for her financial situation and then sort of remind her of the agreement so we are always on the same wavelength. This also gives her a chance to let me know if she is a little tight and then I would slip a few hundred, here and there over and above the agreement just to let her know that I am there but expect nothing outrageous. I would dismiss any hints from her re getting a car for her or a cc but in a gentle way with the truth, i.e. I do not want to complicate the arrangement with more than a simple allowance and she just have to bide by it or we just need to end it.

Given that, perhaps both SD and SB should understand that the initial agreed arrangement need to be honoured by both parties and any movement of the goal post would entail a new arrangement. And if so, eveything has to thrashed out again, no matter how uncomfortable the discussion may be, otherwise it would just get into a drama when one party feel to be shortchanged.

Until you sit down with her and talk honestly of any concerns, I do not see much hope in your situation. Trying to read between the lines in your post, I feel the timing of the allowance is not really the main issue here but rather what was the real agreeed arrangement as there seems to be a few changes done which may not be fully acceptable to her during that period.

Ms. Takensays:

Sincere SD: My approach to the “exchange” has always been, “How can I trust you with my body, if I can’t trust you to deposit my allowance.”

I personally don’t care when it’s made as long as it’s what was agreed to by both of us. I never talk about being intimate and getting an allowance as if they’re dependent/conditional. So by the time I have the kind of rapport where I’m ready to be intimate, I’ve had my allowance deposited a few times.

However, I would question your reasons for wanting to deposit at the end of the period. If you tell me it’s because you’re concerned about me poofing, then we would both know that we have more work to do in terms of building trust i.e. getting to know each other…especially in the biblical sense 😉

Are you trying to iron out the terms or are you already in the arrangement? If you have struck a (new) arrangement and are concerned about her poofing before an intimate encounter but after getting an allowance, then it would appear you have skipped a stage in relationship building.

I agree with Alleycat and the others here – If you’re working on terms, perhaps you should agree to the beginning of the period as a show of good faith. Anything else may smack of transactional/p4p and you run the risk of offending her.

Remember – it’s not adversarial. You both SHOULD want the same things. You both will be happier if she doesn’t feel like you strong-armed her 😉 Good luck and I hope you come to an arrangement that’s amenable to both.

Did I go too long again? Happy Sunday, sugars. Now back to coffee and the NY Times…. 8)

LACollegebaby: You make some valid points and provide a good defense to some of the criticism. However, your use of the word “torture” to describe what you’re doing (perhaps a Freudian slip?) suggests that maybe you view these relationships as not truly mutually beneficial, but rather a zero-sum game in which one side’s gain is the other’s pain, and vice versa. I have the same question as MichaelAZ, which is how long you plan to hold out on him, and am curious whether, as the “torturer,” you plan to let the hostage go as promised if he confesses, or behead him anyway in the end (!)

SincereSDsays:

Thanks for the responds to my questions so far.

Perhaps I should explain the situation and disagreement I am having with her.

1. I have provided allowances 2 weeks in advance to her after the 1st month. I share SG2 and MAC’s point of view about trust as I want my SB to have trust in me and be comfortable with the relationship.

2. I have 3 written emails to her about the arrangement before we went to an allowance.

3. It was hard to pin her down on the exact details because she is uncomfortable talking about the financial side. I would have gone to an allowance earlier. We even had issues about the P4P amount, and therefore trust, because she did not acknowledge my emails.

4. She has recently changed the arrangement in terms of frequency so the amount of the allowance changes.

5. When I gave her the last allowance yesterday, it reflected the new arrangement … she FLIPPED OUT! She accused me of reneging on the arrangement. She claimed the allowance was for the previous 2 weeks and stormed off. I was thinking WTF as we have been together for more than 6 months … and it was a surprise she did not understand the arrangement.

6. I think the proof is pretty strong on my side. I have tried to explain to her the situation with the emails outlining the arrangement and a copy of my bank statement showing a withdraw on the date of the last email on the arrangement; the withdraw is for a combined amount for last P4P and allowance amount combined.

7. She has not acknowledged my emails or text other than to say, “leave me alone.”

My goal of the post was to gather information on the timing of an allowance (before or after the period) and the thoughts on trust to show her what the norm for SD relationships were … as proof as she obviously doesn’t trust me. I am not going into details here but I have provided much more than the baseline allowance to her.

Moral of my story is to make the arrangement clear before proceeding.

Keep the answers to my survey coming.

Signed SuckerSD

Rubysays:

Sorry, poor grammar there. ‘…there is a calculated risk.’

Rubysays:

Thats strange, I’m positive I posted on this thread. Twice =/
Blog gods what are you doing??

@SincereSD

Of course, being a SB myself I’m MUCH more comfortable with ‘paying it forward’ as Michael said. Referencing a certain blogger (can’t remember who) who said that while a SD will only lose some of his money an SB will lose her dignity/self-respect (if things go wrong that is).
Paying the money upfront lets your SB know that you appreciate that. And they’ll appreciate you.
Also, remember this is a business transaction in a sense, and like in all business investments there’s calculated risks.
Calculate it, then risk it.

Michael Alleycatsays:

@LACollegeBaby – out of curiousity, how long are you going to hold out on him? Do you have a bf on the side?

Michael Alleycatsays:

@SincereSD – I pay it forward. It is a good thing to do in life in general, and in this situation, it really builds trust very quickly. Money can be a difficult issue between people at the best of times. Having the financial discussion is difficult for some people, make both of you feel comfortable and get the discussion out of the way quickly and simply, and pay it forward. Some things aren’t worth negotiating.

If your SB believes you are holding back the $ to see how it all works out, I am sure she would not be happy. Paying it forward shows trust and respect, and as A-doc said, you get a happier and more relaxed SB, with all the consequent benefits.

I have always paid it forward, and it had always been the best thing to do by far, as it brings the arrangement up to full speed quickly. Doesn’t mean the end won’t be just as messy, but hey, that’s another story.

12 hours sleep last night … feeling SO much better!

SouthernGent2says:

SincereSD – my feeling is to be careful of agreements and promises at the very beginning. You have to see how things are going to go before making any agreements.

The situation you describe is a balancing act. From my end of things, I would think the sd is the one that can afford to “take the loss”. Give an allowance gift as something of a letter of intent, see how she responds, then move on with or without her.

aspiring-docsays:

lacollege baby- I get the holding out on sex, I just think you are expecting alot from him at this stage. But I don’t know your situation properly I guess. If hes happy paying that much its fine, but I wouldnt cut him based on the issue with cc. Hes given you huge amounts of money. He just for whatever reason didnt feel he could communicate that he didnt want you to have a cc

@Sincere SD: I would not be comfortable with b. My biggest mistake was being comfortable with b. While I got the money eventually- he took a LONG time to pay it…and then ended up bailing and saying he wanted to date me……messy drama
But yeah I wouldn’t do it again. Aside from that when my sugar daddy pays the allowance, I feel I can trust him. I relax- and he gets a happier sb.

SincereSDsays:

Fellow bloggers,

I need help to settle a disagreement I am having with my SB. Would appreciate your answers to the following questions:

1. Are allowance paid in the beginning or the end of the agreed upon period? For example, if the allowance is every 2 weeks, do you pay (receive) it at:

(a) the beginning – so the payment is made in advance covering the upcoming 2 weeks or;
(b) at the end – so the payment is made following the end of a 2 week period?

2. Would any SB be comfortable with an allowance made at the end of a period as in item 1.b above? What guarantees would you have the SD would be good to his word and pay up after receiving several weeks of “benefits”.

Lilysays:

Morning! At least it’s morning on this side of the pond.

I fell for a married SD that I got crazy about even before meeting, on the phone. Together, live, it was perfect & wonderful, and then he started talking about being together in a real sense. Never happened.
Ditto for what happened with a single SD, a couple months earlier. Never happened.

The thrill of seduction is obviously 90% of it.

I hate feeling jaded!

Luckily, when I meet someone I really like, all the jadedness, wisdom, or just plain thinking goes out the window & I throw my all into it, full of hope. I know that’s dangerous, but I’m tough & can handle the heartbreak and I don’t want to change, on that front.

High end designer consignment shops in NYC–that was me!

LaCollegebabysays:

@Michael, you are totally right. I think the cc thing just is too much too soon for him. And yea, he should have just talked to me about instead of misleading me. Yes, big red flag b/c if I can’t trust what he says, especially in this type of rltp then there will be problems.

@NyGent, lol no you didn’t misinterpret that. I did say “NEXT” but I was just saying it to say it. Haha, but no I’m not ready to do that.

@Sdguru, thanks for the analysis…not being sarcastic. I think you are right on point. I know he can be a good sd, as proven so far so yea, I’m happy about that. About the intimacy thing, well I don’t know how long he will be able to hang on. But it will happen, just at the right time and he knows that and knew it going in. I’m sure if I torture him too long though, he’ll obviously then have a problem. About my lifestyle, yea I pretty much can afford much more with him around, but that’s part of being a sb. I think he wants a gf and that’s not gonna happen. But I have/don’t mind going beyond the typical sd/sb duties. Like I said last time, an errand here or there for him, a drive to the airport, a favor at times. At the same time, he does really back off when he needs to. Ex, we live in the same city but I have seen him maybe 3 times in the past few wks, and one of those times was to get the apt situation figured out. So he does give me space. But he also needs to not text me damn near everyday though, b/c that’s not kool. I kinda went off subject here..lol

@Sunnyfunnysb, sorry about your dad and I hope he’ll be ok.

Yea, he’s been great to me I guess. What is he getting in return though? For now, my company, smiles, and great looks. J/k, but he seems so happy being with me and he has a glow that he didn’t have when we first met…seriously, he looks like a different person. He’s also gotten an ego boost, lol ok I’m being silly. But my point is that although he is sexually deprived right now, he has become happier since meeting me and I think that’s what matters most to him. The cc, well I didn’t demand it but I did bring it up and he just entertained the idea. You’re right, and so is everyone who said that maybe the cc issue unfolded this way b/c he is trying to build trust still, and I do understand that. Next time, he just needs to say no or something, or be a man and tell me he is not ready to take such a big step.

@Alpha, I’m so tired of the “entitlement” debate. These men feel “entitled” b/c they have a ton of money. They think they are entitled to a hot chick and have the money to get one. So it’s a two way street. Yea, of course, I feel I deserve certain things but we all do. I feel I “deserve” a great career once I graduate from school with my Bs in Biology for all of my hard work. I feel I deserve a good guy, sd or not, b/c yea, I’m smart, cute, and have a gd heart. We all feel “entitled”, unless we don’t think we deserve anything in life for anything we do. I really cannot grasp this entitlement thing.

@A-doc, I am not taking advantage of anything. I don’t have to lay down with anyone right away if I don’t want to. And he has/had a choice to leave from day one when he knew that sex was not gonna b a right away thing. He chose to stay and chose to help me out. It’s weird b/c one day everyone says, “it’s not about sex and money”, but then the next, it’s “he’s giving you all of this, and he’s not getting sex, shame on you”. I don’t get it. Seems to be a big contradiction. I know that this is supposed to be mutually beneficial and it is. Just b/c we haven’t done anything doesn’t mean that he is not getting any benefits.

@Deardaddy, good advice

LaCollegebabysays:

Second! lol

I don’t know, I think it’s pretty messed up for any man to leave his wife for a chick on the side. I wouldn’t even want a married sd to leave his wife for me. I think it’s unfair, and I don’t believe in breaking up marriages. Plus, I’d think that he would just do the same thing to me one day.

I haven’t met anyone I’d change my life to be with and doubt that I will. Well, I have but it wasn’t a sd. If I ever did meet a sd I would change my life for, it would only be b/c the relationship develops to the point where I could see myself marrying the person.

Things are going well for me in the sugar world. I have a great sd who is kinda too clingy, so I don’t know how it will turn out. But I’m happy we met and I look forward to seeing how things pan out.

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