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It's characterisation that's spread over the first two volumes (and probably over the last two, but I haven't gotten to them yet) so I don't know if I can even summarise it properly, but let's see how it goes.

Spoiler for just in case (mini 1st movie spoiler too):

Basically, it goes back to something Kawamori said about Alto in the episode 10 commentary...I think it's something that the creators wanted us to consider when watching the series (Kawamori indicates as much in a couple of interviews I've skimmed), but only a couple of people brought it up back then and no one really discussed it. Which is possibly one of the reasons they made it explicit in the 1st movie (i.e. "Am I a man? Am I a woman?").

Except that the novels go a bit further into the implications of what it meant: i.e. especially considering he started acting at such a young age, probably before he was even able to form an identity for himself.

Personally, I'm still trying to get my head around what this means for Alto's relationships with the two girls. For example, one of the effects could be that he doesn't even try to understand what Sheryl and Ranka are thinking wrt him because that involves thinking like a woman again...

I kinda guessed that he had gender identity problems. I wished this had been pronounced in the tv series, as I guessed that it was there but it was impossible to convince that it was there.

Interesting, its not that Alto can't understand its that he doesn't want to understand, episode 24 kinda gave me that impression.

I really want to read the novels now, you don't know how jealous I am of you.

Oh, the ones of the obvious kind I agree with, like him getting angry initially at getting called "Princess" or that street seller calling him a lady. But I personally don't see it as going all that deeper from what was presented in the TV series. What goes on in the novels is a separate issue, of course.

It's characterisation that's spread over the first two volumes (and probably over the last two, but I haven't gotten to them yet) so I don't know if I can even summarise it properly, but let's see how it goes.

Spoiler for just in case (mini 1st movie spoiler too):

Basically, it goes back to something Kawamori said about Alto in the episode 10 commentary...I think it's something that the creators wanted us to consider when watching the series (Kawamori indicates as much in a couple of interviews I've skimmed), but only a couple of people brought it up back then and no one really discussed it. Which is possibly one of the reasons they made it explicit in the 1st movie (i.e. "Am I a man? Am I a woman?").

Except that the novels go a bit further into the implications of what it meant: i.e. especially considering he started acting at such a young age, probably before he was even able to form an identity for himself.

Personally, I'm still trying to get my head around what this means for Alto's relationships with the two girls. For example, one of the effects could be that he doesn't even try to understand what Sheryl and Ranka are thinking wrt him because that involves thinking like a woman again...

I'm of somewhat mixed feelings about this. On one hand I don't want to dismiss something's canonicity just because I want to stick to reading the characters the way I'd read them previously. On the other hand however I really feel that if something is that important it should be made clear in the main material itself, not left for other sources to bring to light.

All that being said, would you be willing to provide some details about what the book said about what this meant for Alto? Or did it actually say anything about the effects it had on him? Are we left to form our own conclusions completely or did it spell some things out?

Your own bit of speculation is interesting although I'm not sure I buy into it completely at this point. Even if it would be a good counter to use against the people who keep accusing Alto of being stupid or dense. :lol:

On the other hand however I really feel that if something is that important it should be made clear in the main material itself, not left for other sources to bring to light.

Hm...to be absolutely honest, by the time I got to relevant parts in the second volume about a month or two ago, I had already come around to the characterisation that's in the novel. The episode 10 commentary was what got me thinking about what to make of Alto, so I went looking (in the forum and on RC) to see what others thought at the time, and came across some interesting posts by Swampstorm and musouka. One thing to note though, is that they didn't spelled everything out, at least at first, but instead gave hints and places to start analysis from.

Based on some of their 'flagposts', one thing that became clear to me during the rewatch is that the characterisation IS there in the series, but it's not obvious, and most people ignore it because they're more interested in certain aspects of the show (e.g. the love triangle, or perhaps the mecha/battles. I know I've gone nuts about valkyries since I saw the "All that VF" clips a couple of months back...).

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darthtabby

All that being said, would you be willing to provide some details about what the book said about what this meant for Alto? Or did it actually say anything about the effects it had on him? Are we left to form our own conclusions completely or did it spell some things out?

Oh it spells things out alright, though it's not as bad as some of you might think. But, as I've indicated above, a lot of was actually picked out from the series when it was airing/just after it finished. I don't want to go into any of it now (not to mention I'd have to go find the novel pages again...) though I might in another month's time or maybe when I've actually finished the novels in say...6 months time. On the other hand, I might also decide that I don't want to post stuff that might influence people too much, although figuring out 'what's up with Alto' has made me appreciate Frontier a lot more than I did the first time I saw it.

But if you want to try reconsidering the series, the following comment by Swampstorm is a good starting point:

Spoiler for in case there are ppl who don't want to see it, and besides, this is the novel thread, not the series thread:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Swampstorm

2) The biggest mistake that shippers of both factions make is that they focus too much on how Alto relates to the triangle, rather than studying his personal motivations outside of romance. The best hint that I can offer is to start with episode twenty-three and work your way backwards. There are certain "key phrases" that keep coming up again and again whenever Alto is concerned; if you understand what each one of them means, you'll have a solid grasp of Alto's story. It's unfortunate that his character was revealed so late in the story; he's easily one of the most underrated characters in the series.

Everything else, including the triangle, builds off of that.

I'm not sure if I'd recommend going to look for the thread that came from, because subsequent posts spell some of the analysis out, though there were a few other useful pointers as well (e.g. what some of the "key phrases" are).

If I might say one last thing, I was pretty ambivalent about Alto until about 2-3 months ago. Now that his character actually makes sense to me, he's overtaken Michel as my fav male character in Macross F. Pity I can't change my selections in the character poll...

I disagree with some troller's earlier assertion (here and MWF) that the light novels do not complement or supplement the movies. If anything, based on my experience with the Marimite franchise, these books helps provide at least more than one way and angle of looking at a saga.

I disagree with some troller's earlier assertion (here and MWF) that the light novels do not complement or supplement the movies. If anything, based on my experience with the Marimite franchise, these books helps provide at least more than one way and angle of looking at a saga.

The problem only comes out of Macross Frontiers multiple continuities. There are by now the TV series, the novels, the movies, the movie novels, the manga series, the Sheryl manga series and whatnot. It's impossible to say at this point that the light novels do canonically work with the TV series, as they also have a good number of story departures from each other.