Put the hydraulic steering back and this will be the one of the best 3 series ever!

Still is the best "bread and butter" 3-series ever.

Personally I believe the 'chatter' on the steering is over the top, something for the press and forums to talk about. The basic 328i steering that I tried was light, that's true, but precise, more precise mid position than my hydraulic steering is, in an E91 wagon (and from new).

Motoring in Europe has moved on, BMW is a brand driven by folks who are generally not car enthusiasts, so want lighter steering, the heavy feel of previous models has received criticism by many drivers.

IMO, the enthusiast needs the think "specification", sport steering for example. With correct options, there is something for virtually everyone.

My dealer principal, a car enthusiast and with BMW for many generations of models, told me he has never seen such a leap of progress in one model evolution, in all his years with BMW.

I don't get it. Why is everyone saying that if you want a BMW that can last for 10 years, you will have to pay a lot. Really? Do you guys actually own BMW? Maybe our family is that .001%, but we never have problem with our cars. 5 BMWs, 3 of them are more than 10 years old and guess what? They never have those big problems that cost us a fortune. This is why we love BMW. Fun to drive, practical, fuel efficient, and yet long lasting.
I will assume that you just abuse your car everyday if your BMW is not reliable.
OR yes, maybe our cars are really the minority, and probably that I will never find out.

I don't get it. Why is everyone saying that if you want a BMW that can last for 10 years, you will have to pay a lot. Really?

It does not take a lot to research cost of ownership, you are welcome to do so. Higher tech cars cost more to fix.

Also, any 1 particular situation is never indicative of statistics as a whole. Your situation may mirror dozens of others on this board, but that does not mean that its the average scenario.

Personally, I would chuck out the $2-3k for the 6 year extended warranty once the 4 year is almost run out. My wife just spent $2000 on her 8 year old Prius, getting a water pump, new (starting ) battery, and new LCD screen/computer. And thats a Toyota.

I don't get it. Why is everyone saying that if you want a BMW that can last for 10 years, you will have to pay a lot. Really? Do you guys actually own BMW? Maybe our family is that .001%, but we never have problem with our cars. 5 BMWs, 3 of them are more than 10 years old and guess what? They never have those big problems that cost us a fortune. This is why we love BMW. Fun to drive, practical, fuel efficient, and yet long lasting.
I will assume that you just abuse your car everyday if your BMW is not reliable.
OR yes, maybe our cars are really the minority, and probably that I will never find out.

Your not the only one. I haven't had any problems with my car. Then again I take pride in taking good care of my car.

I don't get it. Why is everyone saying that if you want a BMW that can last for 10 years, you will have to pay a lot. Really? Do you guys actually own BMW? Maybe our family is that .001%, but we never have problem with our cars. 5 BMWs, 3 of them are more than 10 years old and guess what? They never have those big problems that cost us a fortune. This is why we love BMW. Fun to drive, practical, fuel efficient, and yet long lasting.
I will assume that you just abuse your car everyday if your BMW is not reliable.
OR yes, maybe our cars are really the minority, and probably that I will never find out.

I've only owned one BMW -- a 2006 E90 330i, which I just sold to make way for my incoming F30 335i.

In the seven years I owned it, most of the really important problems were taken care of in the warranty years. But one reason I sold it six months before I get my F30 is that normal maintenance was freakin' expensive.

At 85K miles, it needed new front brakes, an alignment, an oil change, new coils and plugs. I also insisted on a rear differential oil change, something a BMW dealer tech recommended to me. The work was done by a really excellent non-dealer BMW shop using OEM parts.

Cost? $1800. At the dealer, it would've been over $2500. Three months later I sold the car for $15000.

Even if the cars don't require a lot of maintenance (and mine didn't), what they do require is expensive, both in terms of the percentage of the value of an older BMW and in absolute dollar terms compared to, say, Hondas.

Personally I believe the 'chatter' on the steering is over the top, something for the press and forums to talk about. The basic 328i steering that I tried was light, that's true, but precise, more precise mid position than my hydraulic steering is, in an E91 wagon (and from new).

Motoring in Europe has moved on, BMW is a brand driven by folks who are generally not car enthusiasts, so want lighter steering, the heavy feel of previous models has received criticism by many drivers.

I've yet to test drive the new 328 to get to feel what all magazine reviews are saying, but I guess you might be right since you have actually driven both cars. A lighter steering is definitely a plus especially for non car enthusiasts. I hope with the new M3, the hydraulic steering should be retained. The heavy steering feel should be confined to the ///M cars, not on the new 328 and 335 models.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robin_NL

As a matter of fact I'd say 'yes'. Having had 7 hydraulic BMWs(e46/90/81) and one electric(F10)

And a lot of EU/UK mags find the steering actually just very good, if you choose the sportsteering.

I have to admit, I'm doubting the new electronic steering based on magazine reviews. I really have to test drive the new 328 to really feel what you mean.

__________________

Hellaflush? All I could say is"effyo'flush","flushnuff", and Instead of 'illest', I'm calling it "faillest". It's just form over function nowadays...
-END RANT

Did anyone else notice that when showing highlights of the new 3-series they used the Chinese only Li models???

I didn't until you pointed it out. I did notice that he raves on the 5 diesel. if anyone in NA (well maybe just the US) hears that and heads straight to the BMWUSA website they're going to wonder what the heck he's talking about.

My bad to rain on the parade but WHAT IS HE TALKING ABOUT!?1?!1?!!?!?!?! Cars that last!!!!! Lol, I buy BMWs because of how they drive and their inherent looks and visual quality. But after 3-4 years they begin to disintegrate and become poisonous to maintain. If you want a car that lasts buy a toyota land cruiser NOT a BMW

I've had an Rx-8 for quite a while with electric steering and it's one of the best handling cars I've ever driven. I drove the new 3-series before I bought it and loved it just as much. Very precise, even though it's not heavy. I think a lot of people confuse steering weight with steering "feel."

I've had an Rx-8 for quite a while with electric steering and it's one of the best handling cars I've ever driven. I drove the new 3-series before I bought it and loved it just as much. Very precise, even though it's not heavy. I think a lot of people confuse steering weight with steering "feel."

Steering weight, as you say, doesn't automatically mean better road feel and feedback. Too much weight and it can numb the feel anyway.

There is a lot of talk on here as if the EPS is new, some E90/91 models have been usuing EPS for several years, so many drivers are already used to it in BMW 3-series models.

Also a hydraulic system is in itself no miracle product for precision. I was in a new Vauxhall Insignia sedan the other day with hydraulic steering, it was lighter than the EPS in the new 328i. The 328i's EPS was the better system, for road feel and precision.

Steering weight, as you say, doesn't automatically mean better road feel and feedback. Too much weight and it can numb the feel anyway.

There is a lot of talk on here as if the EPS is new, some E90/91 models have been usuing EPS for several years, so many drivers are already used to it in BMW 3-series models.

Also a hydraulic system is in itself no miracle product for precision. I was in a new Vauxhall Insignia sedan the other day with hydraulic steering, it was lighter than the EPS in the new 328i. The 328i's EPS was the better system, for road feel and precision.

Maybe our family is that .001%, but we never have problem with our cars. 5 BMWs, 3 of them are more than 10 years old and guess what? They never have those big problems that cost us a fortune.

I've owned two, along with two Audis and two Volvos. I've driven the BMWs and Audis to high mileage, and the BMWs have been far less expensive to maintain. So I agree with you.

Quote:

Originally Posted by KneeDragr

It does not take a lot to research cost of ownership, you are welcome to do so. Higher tech cars cost more to fix.

True, and when you do your research, you will find that BMWs have about average reliability down the stretch. All cars have more technology in them than they used to.

Quote:

Originally Posted by KneeDragr

Also, any 1 particular situation is never indicative of statistics as a whole. Your situation may mirror dozens of others on this board, but that does not mean that its the average scenario.

You're right about the first part of that, but I think the "internet board effect" is working the opposite of the way you suggest. People who are having problems are far more vocal than people who aren't, and the preponderance of activity on these boards is from people complaining or seeking a solution to a problem. I don't think what we read here, as relates to reliability, is indicative of the greater experience.

You're right about the first part of that, but I think the "internet board effect" is working the opposite of the way you suggest. People who are having problems are far more vocal than people who aren't, and the preponderance of activity on these boards is from people complaining or seeking a solution to a problem. I don't think what we read here, as relates to reliability, is indicative of the greater experience.

Absolutely! Generally speaking, happy owners don't go around posting up that they've had no issues whatsoever with their cars. On the other hand, those who have issues will post in order to vent or seek advice/solution.

The F30 isn't that much more expensive than the E90 when it was first released in 2005 (2006 model year). IIRC, the E90 325i (base) was around $31,000 (US figures). The F30 328i MSRP starts at $34,900 but you consider how much more standard equipment you get, it's not that much more.

Base price may be about the same but configured price has gone way up. Example, I got a 2011 e92 328xi for $49,500 with nav, premium, convienience, m-sport and BMW apps. At the time I purchased it I had also configured an e90 with all the same equipment minus xdrive for about $46,000.

Yesterday I configured the f30 the same as I did the the e90 last year and the price came out to $49,500! So yeah, you can get a stripped version for about the same as before but they have greatly increased the price on options packages. An almost $4k bump in price is ridiculous. I love my BMW and was planning on getting another when my lease is up but now I'm not so sure. Might just buy mine or look at another manufacturer I can only imagine how much they're going to charge for the 4 series.

Absolutely! Generally speaking, happy owners don't go around posting up that they've had no issues whatsoever with their cars. On the other hand, those who have issues will post in order to vent or seek advice/solution.

Exactly!! If you search for 335i or N54/N55, you can see so many "BMW turbo failure" stuffs, but that doesn't mean it is the problem of the majority. My family and I never post the web saying how awesome our cars or anything we have been using are. Toyota is also one of the examples of that. People don't post about how long their Toyota last, but only post they can't stop their Toyota. And since media loves failure, people are going to enlarge the problem like this is the end of the world.