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Re: Luck so far

The TD to Brazil is Luck's best throw of the season. He's scrambling out to his left, which is difficult to begin with. Then he plants and throws with one foot on the ground and it just happens to be the wrong foot. The result? Only a 42 yard bomb to the endzone that Brazil hauls in with a defender all over him. Luck has had some nice throws this year, but none better than that one.

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Re: Luck so far

Interesting Note: When Luck threw his 3rd INT, and he chased down DET DB. A LOT of QB's give up that pick 6, and get out of the way so that they don't get blasted. But Luck hustled and showed some serious wheels, chased down the DB and got him down. Without that hustle, we have to score twice AND get two 2pt conversions in order to TIE the game. Didn't seem like much at the time, but probably ended up being one of the biggest plays of the game.

I really wish Luck could find a way to cut down on those ugly, unnecessary INT's that are becoming more and more common (esp on the road). I know these are rookie growing pains, but those complete overthrows straight to the safety look BAD. If this happens against any of the teams on the road in the playoffs, we'll get absolutely dominated. BUT even the biggest Luck detractor has to admit the kid has that special ability to deliver in the clutch. Those final two drives, the game seemed to slow down for the guy and he made smart yet aggressive plays.

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Re: Luck so far

The MVP talk is heating up.

I know this award will likely, and arguably, go to Manning, Brady, or AP. Strong cases for all of those.

But the award is supposed to go to the player who is the "most valuable player in the league." Well, how is that defined? To the league in terms of marketing power? To an individual team in terms of impact?

The romantic in me wants to believe it goes to the player who made the biggest impact to their team.

That player, in my mind --- is Andrew Luck.

He's not had a perfect statistical season. He's had a few bad games. But it all comes down to context:

1) The Colts aren't good. There are a number of positions on this team that have been devastated by injuries, and they weren't deep in talent to begin with. The remaining positions have talent --- but they're young. Rookies... Second year players.... a lot of guys Grigson plucked off the wire or off other team's practice squads. This team is a hodgepodge of mediocre players.
2) The offense they run. It's a vertical offense. It's not a safe... stat-boosting... game-management type of offense, like say, the West coast offense. Luck's offense is difficult. The throws you have to make are above and beyond typical throws, not many guys can even make them. It's more quick-strike than power and clock-eating. It also increases your interceptions and incompletions. But that also comes from point #1 --- the guys he's throwing to, who they themselves are making mistakes. Luck usually takes the blame, but it's often that a guy runs an incorrect route, makes an incorrect read. And then they just don't catch the ball, or they bat it up in the air whereas a seasoned veteran wouldn't be making that happen.
3) Horrible offensive line. Doesn't give Luck enough time to actually set and make a throw. Which hurts Luck's passing stats and opportunities. And also leads to...
4) Inconsistent run game. They tend to find their groove at opportunistic times, late in games... but for large stretches of games the run game just isn't producing and Luck is doing everything.
5) All these bad parts of our team are coached by a pretty decent coaching staff, but a coaching staff that's missing the main guy because he's been battling cancer all year. Stripping out the emotional aspect of this, it hurts the team's nuts and bolts "X's and O's". When the guy who architected the entire damn team is not even present to execute the gameplan --- you're going to have setbacks from a pure football perspective.
6) His stats aren't "bad", either. There are a few that are really damn impressive. Yardage... overall touchdowns (23). His numbers on "money downs". His execution in the 2-min, which doesn't show up on most traditional stats. His comeback wins. His total wins.

That's just the non-emotional stuff. Throw in the fact that this time last year, Peyton Manning was still on this roster. The gut-wretching departure... the huge shadow that Luck plays under... the expectations he had to overcome to win over a snake-bitten fan base... the emotional aspect of the coach being diagnosed with cancer...

I mean.................... all that is an absolute *mountain* for a rookie QB to overcome.

And he's won 9 games. 6 comebacks. Broke the single-game record for yardage for a rookie. Is on pace to break the single-season yardage record for a rookie. Might even be on pace for the single-season TD record for a rookie. He's been unbelievable in 3rd down conversions. He's been unbelievable in 2-min drills.

The Colts are well-positioned for a playoff spot. That wasn't supposed to happen. But it did because of 1 guy. Andrew Luck. And he's really not being taken seriously as an MVP candidate. He's been bandied about as a potential, but it's mostly just wild posturing. I tend to think that stats and the fact he's a rookie are the only real thing standing between him and that award, but it shouldn't.

Last edited by Kid Minneapolis; 12-13-2012 at 01:46 PM.

There are two types of quarterbacks in the league: Those whom over time, the league figures out ... and those who figure out the league.

Re: Luck so far

None of the voters have the stones to vote for Luck. He's probably made a bigger impact than any player in the league, but if anyone actually came out and said he deserved it they'd be laughed out of their job. It's sad, but that's just the world we live in.

The MVP is awarded to the player with the best stats. It's Tom Brady's to lose.

Re: Luck so far

No way Luck should win the MVP, it is simple to me, if we didn't get down so bad in games we would not have to have all these comebacks, comebacks are good and all, but they really say your team was in good position to lose due to what they did in the first 3 quarters. If Luck were consistently half as efficient as he is in the 4th then maybe he would be in the conversation for MVP, but he still has a long way to go... way to many off target balls, both short and deep.

Re: Luck so far

None of the voters have the stones to vote for Luck. He's probably made a bigger impact than any player in the league, but if anyone actually came out and said he deserved it they'd be laughed out of their job. It's sad, but that's just the world we live in.

The MVP is awarded to the player with the best stats. It's Tom Brady's to lose.

There has been people that said he is one of the top candidates... but yeah they should get laughed out of their seats... for a rookie he is doing a marvelous job, but the MVP does not care if you are a rookie or a seasoned vet...

Re: Luck so far

I know this award will likely, and arguably, go to Manning, Brady, or AP. Strong cases for all of those.

But the award is supposed to go to the player who is the "most valuable player in the league." Well, how is that defined? To the league in terms of marketing power? To an individual team in terms of impact?

The romantic in me wants to believe it goes to the player who made the biggest impact to their team.

That player, in my mind --- is Andrew Luck.

He's not had a perfect statistical season. He's had a few bad games. But it all comes down to context:

1) The Colts aren't good. There are a number of positions on this team that have been devastated by injuries, and they weren't deep in talent to begin with. The remaining positions have talent --- but they're young. Rookies... Second year players.... a lot of guys Grigson plucked off the wire or off other team's practice squads. This team is a hodgepodge of mediocre players.
2) The offense they run. It's a vertical offense. It's not a safe... stat-boosting... game-management type of offense, like say, the West coast offense. Luck's offense is difficult. The throws you have to make are above and beyond typical throws, not many guys can even make them. It's more quick-strike than power and clock-eating. It also increases your interceptions and incompletions. But that also comes from point #1 --- the guys he's throwing to, who they themselves are making mistakes. Luck usually takes the blame, but it's often that a guy runs an incorrect route, makes an incorrect read. And then they just don't catch the ball, or they bat it up in the air whereas a seasoned veteran wouldn't be making that happen.
3) Horrible offensive line. Doesn't give Luck enough time to actually set and make a throw. Which hurts Luck's passing stats and opportunities. And also leads to...
4) Inconsistent run game. They tend to find their groove at opportunistic times, late in games... but for large stretches of games the run game just isn't producing and Luck is doing everything.
5) All these bad parts of our team are coached by a pretty decent coaching staff, but a coaching staff that's missing the main guy because he's been battling cancer all year. Stripping out the emotional aspect of this, it hurts the team's nuts and bolts "X's and O's". When the guy who architected the entire damn team is not even present to execute the gameplan --- you're going to have setbacks from a pure football perspective.
6) His stats aren't "bad", either. There are a few that are really damn impressive. Yardage... overall touchdowns (23). His numbers on "money downs". His execution in the 2-min, which doesn't show up on most traditional stats. His comeback wins. His total wins.

That's just the non-emotional stuff. Throw in the fact that this time last year, Peyton Manning was still on this roster. The gut-wretching departure... the huge shadow that Luck plays under... the expectations he had to overcome to win over a snake-bitten fan base... the emotional aspect of the coach being diagnosed with cancer...

I mean.................... all that is an absolute *mountain* for a rookie QB to overcome.

And he's won 9 games. 6 comebacks. Broke the single-game record for yardage for a rookie. Is on pace to break the single-season yardage record for a rookie. Might even be on pace for the single-season TD record for a rookie. He's been unbelievable in 3rd down conversions. He's been unbelievable in 2-min drills.

The Colts are well-positioned for a playoff spot. That wasn't supposed to happen. But it did because of 1 guy. Andrew Luck. And he's really not being taken seriously as an MVP candidate. He's been bandied about as a potential, but it's mostly just wild posturing. I tend to think that stats and the fact he's a rookie are the only real thing standing between him and that award, but it shouldn't.

Luck fan just like you, but some stats combined with actual game play take away from your argument, just look at the Lions game, I mean down big and trying to come back and he throws a key pick with less than 10 minutes down. He must learn better decision making, like when to leave the pocket, he has put himself in situations way too often to take big hits due to trying to wait for a receiver to get open when he should be taking the free yards by just tucking and running.

I think he will get there eventually and he is having one of the best seasons by a QB this year, but he will need to perform better if he wants the MVP.

Re: Luck so far

I was curious about Andrew's road vs home production, so I tallied some stuff:

Road
153-284 - 54%
2024 yards
10 PASS TDs
2 RUSH TDs
13 INTs

Home
155-280 - 55%
1954 yards
10 PASS TDs
3 RUSH TDs
5 INTs

So looking at this... he's damn near identical in completions, percentage, yardage, and touchdowns no matter if he's on the road or at home.

The only and biggest difference is interceptions. He's scored 13 TDs at home and thrown 5 ints. He's scored 12 TDs on the road, and thrown 13 INTs.

I actually take this as a good sign. He's consistent in his ability to move the ball and the offense no matter where he plays. Where he slips is the INTs, which suggests that he's being affected by the crowd noise, trying too much to force throws and gambling a little more, or some combination of both.

I think he'll figure it out.

There are two types of quarterbacks in the league: Those whom over time, the league figures out ... and those who figure out the league.

Re: Luck so far

I was curious about Andrew's road vs home production, so I tallied some stuff:

Road
153-284 - 54%
2024 yards
10 PASS TDs
2 RUSH TDs
13 INTs

Home
155-280 - 55%
1954 yards
10 PASS TDs
3 RUSH TDs
5 INTs

So looking at this... he's damn near identical in completions, percentage, yardage, and touchdowns no matter if he's on the road or at home.

The only and biggest difference is interceptions. He's scored 13 TDs at home and thrown 5 ints. He's scored 12 TDs on the road, and thrown 13 INTs.

I actually take this as a good sign. He's consistent in his ability to move the ball and the offense no matter where he plays. Where he slips is the INTs, which suggests that he's being affected by the crowd noise, trying too much to force throws and gambling a little more, or some combination of both.

I think he'll figure it out.

Yeah very similar, and I think he could have had a few more at home, he really throws some bad balls way too often, but like I said in the last post I think he will start to get this together next year.

One thing that I noticed, and this will really hurt his chances at MVP and ROY, is that he has performed worst near the end of the season, you would rather see a guy who is improving throughout. I know that I am not one to go solely by stats but if you look at his last 5 games his completion percentage is floating around 49% and he has thrown 10 TD's and 9 picks, and that was helped a lot by the Houston game where he did not throw any picks on the road or it would have been 8 td's and 9 picks, that is not the way that a ROY or MVP candidate should be finishing out the year.

With all that said, I think if he has 2 decent to strong games to finish out the season then he should definitely get the ROY, here is hoping for a good performance against KC next week to start that out on the right track.

Re: Luck so far

this line is so bad. I would argue that RG3 has taken some bad hits, Luck has been getting clobbered all season long. I actually want him to run the ball more. Watching him stand in there, though admirable, makes me sick seeing some of the hits he's taking. He's one tough son of a ***** thats for sure.

This line needs upgraded badly and there's going to be some good ones in FA.

Re: Luck so far

I will agree that when Luck stays in the pocket, he gets hit way more than RG3.

The knock on RG3 is most of his bad hits occur when he's out on the run. And I don't know if it's his relatively slight stature... or he just doesn't know how to defend himself... but he gets hit in the most explosive, spectacular ways possible. He's had 3-4 very, very ugly collisions, almost all of which weren't necessary.

There are two types of quarterbacks in the league: Those whom over time, the league figures out ... and those who figure out the league.

I like Luck and I think he's the ROY, but these rookie comparisons, to be meaningful, also rely on Luck improving after his rookie year, working on his weaknesses, to the extent that Peyton Manning did.

As an example, Rick Mirer's rookie year was comparable to Peyton Manning's rookie year too. That didn't foretell anything.

The poster "pacertom" since this forum began (and before!). I changed my name here to "Slick Pinkham" in honor of the imaginary player That Bobby "Slick" Leonard picked late in the 1971 ABA draft (true story!)

Re: Luck so far

I like Luck and I think he's the ROY, but these rookie comparisons, to be meaningful, also rely on Luck improving after his rookie year, working on his weaknesses, to the extent that Peyton Manning did.

As an example, Rick Mirer's rookie year was comparable to Peyton Manning's rookie year too. That didn't foretell anything.

I agree with your overall point though. Luck having a similar rookie year to Manning doesn't mean that he will be throwing 49 touchdowns in year 6. Manning immediately cut his picks down in year two with a 26/15 TD/INT ratio. Also had a 90.7 passer rating as he led the Colts to a phenomenal 13-3 record. Luck obviously needs to improve some things next year and I think he will. Management needs to help him out too by adding some quality O-Lineman with that cap space we have. Manning was extremely fortunate to have Tarik Glenn protecting his blindside for his first 9 years. He also had Saturday.

Re: Luck so far

yeah, I copied them from the earlier post without noticing they were for only 12 games... my bad

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Re: Luck so far

I have to say that Luck reminds me of Peyton at year three with his playbook comprehension with more athleticism. He may not have the gun that Peyton has but he is good at getting the ball where it needs to go.

Re: Luck so far

I have to say that Luck reminds me of Peyton at year three with his playbook comprehension with more athleticism. He may not have the gun that Peyton has but he is good at getting the ball where it needs to go.

I love Luck's arm, but I hate how he throws the deep ball when he tries to put air under it, when he just throws it like a rocket though it always looks a lot better.