If Cleveland could ever get their shit together and elevate into a consistent 7-9 to 9-7 somewhere in that range team on average making the post season here and there, then me believes easily AFC North would reign supreme most year-after-year. Egh, we're unfortunately talking about the Browns here.

If Cleveland could ever get their shit together and elevate into a consistent 7-9 to 9-7 somewhere in that range team on average making the post season here and there, then me believes easily AFC North would reign supreme most year-after-year. Egh, we're unfortunately talking about the Browns here.

Sry Charlie (Brown) CLE is the most snake-bitten sports town in America. I've always hoped that the Browns would at least evolve and be 'decent'. It simply has not happened.

I had hope that the Joe Thomas-Brady Quinn-Braylon Edwards core a few years ago could be formidable and Quinn/Edwards turned out to be busts in the long haul.

Weeden is smart and accurate and I love Trent Rich but I don't see them overtaking PIT BAL or CIN in the next three years

NFC north can send 3 teams to the playoffs right now, better than any division. Lions blow dick this year but I knew they were pretenders since last year.

Pretenders? Blow dick?

You can't honestly argue that they are untalented. The problem with this Detroit Lions team stems overall from a complete lack of leadership and discipline. Personal fouls are still happening way too often, stupid offsides, drops, redzone fumbles, abhorrent special teams play...But even with all of that, they still played the Chicago Bears very close and stayed within reach the entire game.

Are they a legitimate playoff threat this year? No, they aren't. Are they under performing? Yes, they certainly are. Are they a bad team? No. They are currently playing bad, but that will change once they figure out the issues I listed above (which are correctable issues).

It baffles me that people like you just go by the box score and say "The Lions are so bad! Stafford can't do anything! Calvin obviously fooled everyone last year (yes I've actually heard that argument). It seems like you don't watch them play at all, or if you do, are blinded by your love of the Vikings.

You probably won't respond because you won't be able to negate my arguments here, but I'd like to see what you have to say to this.

You can't honestly argue that they are untalented. The problem with this Detroit Lions team stems overall from a complete lack of leadership and discipline. Personal fouls are still happening way too often, stupid offsides, drops, redzone fumbles, abhorrent special teams play...But even with all of that, they still played the Chicago Bears very close and stayed within reach the entire game.

Are they a legitimate playoff threat this year? No, they aren't. Are they under performing? Yes, they certainly are. Are they a bad team? No. They are currently playing bad, but that will change once they figure out the issues I listed above (which are correctable issues).

It baffles me that people like you just go by the box score and say "The Lions are so bad! Stafford can't do anything! Calvin obviously fooled everyone last year (yes I've actually heard that argument). It seems like you don't watch them play at all, or if you do, are blinded by your love of the Vikings.

You probably won't respond because you won't be able to negate my arguments here, but I'd like to see what you have to say to this.

I've seen enough Lions this year to know that your special teams is the worst in the league, which alone has lost you guys 2 games. Remember the Vikes didn't even need to score an offensive touchdown on yall.

Calvin is still the real deal, my criticism isn't directed at your offense (despite Stafford throwing 3 picks in the redzone on Monday). I don't understand why Stafford is throwing as much as he is (44 passes a game) given that Detroit's running game isn't THAT bad. Your coordinators aren't playing to any new strengths, the tape on the Lions is out from last year and people aren't allowing the Stafford-Megatron show to happen anymore, which BARELY got Detroit into the playoffs that season.

I've seen enough Lions this year to know that your special teams is the worst in the league, which alone has lost you guys 2 games. Remember the Vikes didn't even need to score an offensive touchdown on yall.

Calvin is still the real deal, my criticism isn't directed at your offense (despite Stafford throwing 3 picks in the redzone on Monday). I don't understand why Stafford is throwing as much as he is (44 passes a game) given that Detroit's running game isn't THAT bad. Your coordinators aren't playing to any new strengths, the tape on the Lions is out from last year and people aren't allowing the Stafford-Megatron show to happen anymore, which BARELY got Detroit into the playoffs that season.

You are extremely uniformed. Stafford's one interception came on a 4th down when he was essentially throwing it away. Mikel Leshoure, part of the Lions so called "not so bad" running game and Joique Bell both fumbled in the redzone and Alphonso Smith muffed a return and let the Bears have it deep in Lions territory. Until the running game can resemble something useful, Stafford will continue to throw the ball 40-50 times a game. He did that last year, and he will keep doing it this year. Stafford has been inconsistent, yes, but the receivers have made countless drops and several boneheaded plays (Pettigrew fumbling twice in the span of three plays against the Bears).

Special teams is absolutely dismal. From missing tackles to lackluster blocking and poor punting, they are getting trashed. But to call the Lions pretenders is a joke. They are still an effective team, they just haven't showed it this year.