Joined: October 20th, 2004, 4:16 pmPosts: 10136Location: Where ever I'm at now

Re: Cornerbacks

conversion02 wrote:

m2karateman wrote:

I for one can't imagine Jimmy Smith getting picked ahead of Prince Amukamara, but then again I would have NEVER imagined Tyson Alualu being a top ten pick last year.....so it shows what I know.

Yeah, and how'd he do for Jax last year? Not like a top 10 pick should.

There's always some clown who goes in the top 10 like Troy Williamson, Heyward-Bey, Mike Williams, etc.

Actually Alualu started out slow and was starting to do much better toward the end of the season. Compound that with the fact that Jacksonville had really nothing surrounding him on the defensive line and it was easy to just double him out of the play. Was he worth a top ten pick? Probably not, but as it is often said, that can't truly be determined until after three seasons of play. He's certainly no Ndamukong Suh, but then again, who is?

_________________I will not put on blinders when it comes to our QBs performances.

April 19th, 2011, 2:14 pm

liontrax

1st Round Pick

Joined: March 21st, 2005, 2:11 pmPosts: 1201Location: Wolverine, Mi.

Re: Cornerbacks

Recently been studying mid-round corner prospects. One in particular has piqued my interest, Brandon Hogan, West Virginia. Currently being ranked in the 4th round area. He's been said to have red flags and a knee injury, but is a player, aggressive, physical, ball hawk. Anyone have an educated opinion, or seen him play?

Recently been studying mid-round corner prospects. One in particular has piqued my interest, Brandon Hogan, West Virginia. Currently being ranked in the 4th round area. He's been said to have red flags and a knee injury, but is a player, aggressive, physical, ball hawk. Anyone have an educated opinion, or seen him play?

Nice find as a highlight reel player. Not sure about what his weaknesses are, but from what I've seen, he's a naturally instinctive player. I think he's better than Spievey who we took in the 3rd last year. Certainly a better cornerback. Great in a zone, haven't seen enough press from him to decide. Why he falls is like you said, knee injury and a couple of arrests. Arrests to me seem pretty minor as far as character concerns go (public urination and dui). The big drop comes from the torn acl, which could be the kiss of death as far as his nfl career goes. He definitely will have a long hard road to climb to get back to where he was prior to the injury.

Recently been studying mid-round corner prospects. One in particular has piqued my interest, Brandon Hogan, West Virginia. Currently being ranked in the 4th round area. He's been said to have red flags and a knee injury, but is a player, aggressive, physical, ball hawk. Anyone have an educated opinion, or seen him play?

Liontrax, I think you're on to something!

I think I mentioned my cornerback research in another thread. Without going to deep into the details, it takes into account size, speed, and a number of other factors. Brandon Hogan is its number one sleeper candidate, although I'm a bit skeptical of his prospects due to his off the field and injury issues.

The other guys I would like to see us jump on are Anthony Gaitor, Davon House, and Justin Rogers. Justin Rogers is a legit talent that is severely underrated: he looked great in the East-West Shrine game practices and fits the profile of a small school guy who can make it big. Anthony Gaitor can be had for bargain basement prices, although it bears mentioning that guys from the WAC almost never work out. Everyone already knows about House. Except for the guys that people are already talking about (Peterson, Amukamara, Harris, Dowling, etc.): every other cornerback in the draft is pretty much just roster fodder.

here is a quick breakdown of the top 5 inside and 5 outside linebackers.I,ll start with the inside1-quan sturdivant-in a weak class is the safest pick solid all around linebacker2-martez wilson-i hate putting him this high.can look great at times and completely lost at others3-mario harvey-i would have him number one if he had played better competition 4-nate irving-nice combine solid in all area's of his game5-colin MCcarthy-ranked much lower till all-star games is a boom or bust typewhat an ugly list and if i were a gm the only guys i would touch would be quan or harveynow for the outside1-von miller-a great player and worthy of a top 10 pick2-bruce carter-even with the injury a better player then anyone else on this list3-mason foster-nice instincts but wish he was a little faster4-lawrence wilson-underrated player who should be a nice pro5-akeem ayers-only reason he,s on my list is because i know someone running a 3-4 is gonna try and turn him into an outside passrusher and draft him much higher then he should be.

Long-time lurker, but a new poster here. This thread convinced me to sign up for a user name so I could reply to it.

I have been working on my value charts for the past month or so, and was curious on everyone's thoughts on a couple of LB prospects that should be available in the middle rounds.

K.J. Wright has piqued my interest in the 4th/5th round. I would love to be able to snag Quan Sturdivant, and also have him near the top of my board at LB. However, Wright seems to have the measurables to be able to develop into a nice NFL player. I have Wright ranked in the mix with Casey Matthews, Mason Foster, and Lawrence Wilson.

My other thought was if Detroit ended up taking a DE in the 1st round, what is the possibility of a guy like Aldon Smith or Ryan Kerrigan developing into an OLB? Or would they likely keep them at the DE spot?

Thanks for any input.

April 24th, 2011, 9:16 pm

m2karateman

RIP Killer

Joined: October 20th, 2004, 4:16 pmPosts: 10136Location: Where ever I'm at now

Re: Cornerbacks

Numbers Game wrote:

allenslions wrote:

here is a quick breakdown of the top 5 inside and 5 outside linebackers.I,ll start with the inside1-quan sturdivant-in a weak class is the safest pick solid all around linebacker2-martez wilson-i hate putting him this high.can look great at times and completely lost at others3-mario harvey-i would have him number one if he had played better competition 4-nate irving-nice combine solid in all area's of his game5-colin MCcarthy-ranked much lower till all-star games is a boom or bust typewhat an ugly list and if i were a gm the only guys i would touch would be quan or harveynow for the outside1-von miller-a great player and worthy of a top 10 pick2-bruce carter-even with the injury a better player then anyone else on this list3-mason foster-nice instincts but wish he was a little faster4-lawrence wilson-underrated player who should be a nice pro5-akeem ayers-only reason he,s on my list is because i know someone running a 3-4 is gonna try and turn him into an outside passrusher and draft him much higher then he should be.

Long-time lurker, but a new poster here. This thread convinced me to sign up for a user name so I could reply to it.

I have been working on my value charts for the past month or so, and was curious on everyone's thoughts on a couple of LB prospects that should be available in the middle rounds.

K.J. Wright has piqued my interest in the 4th/5th round. I would love to be able to snag Quan Sturdivant, and also have him near the top of my board at LB. However, Wright seems to have the measurables to be able to develop into a nice NFL player. I have Wright ranked in the mix with Casey Matthews, Mason Foster, and Lawrence Wilson.

My other thought was if Detroit ended up taking a DE in the 1st round, what is the possibility of a guy like Aldon Smith or Ryan Kerrigan developing into an OLB? Or would they likely keep them at the DE spot?

Thanks for any input.

First things first.....welcome to Lionbacker and what took you so long to join the forum?

I believe K.J. Wright is a very intriguing prospect, likely to go late third to mid-fourth round. Pure OLB with, as you said, nice measureables for further development. I wouldn't mind the Lions taking him in the fourth if he's still available. I also like Quan Sturdivant, but see him going earlier than Wright, possibly late second round, since he can play any LB spot. My understanding is that many teams looking for LBers like Mason Foster, and he may not be there in the third for the Lions. I wouldn't burn the second rounder on him though. I'm a bit concerned about his ability to pursue, as he seems sluggish at times. Everything else spells solid ball player, though.

If the Lions were to take either Kerrigan or Aldon Smith, they would likely use them strictly at DE. Kerrigan doesn't really have the athletic skillset to be a 43 OLB successfully, in my opinion. Aldon Smith is a pure pass rusher, and given the Lions defensive philosophy of using the front four to rush the passer most of the time, Smith would not be using his natural skills at LB. Both could be good for a 34 team at OLB, but I don't think they'd work as a 43 OLB. Of the two, I think Smith is the more likely candidate to be able to make that switch to a 43 OLB, but I don't see the Lions using him in that regard.

_________________I will not put on blinders when it comes to our QBs performances.

April 25th, 2011, 11:35 am

Numbers Game

Baton Girl

Joined: April 24th, 2011, 9:07 pmPosts: 14

Re: Cornerbacks

Quote:

Quote:

Long-time lurker, but a new poster here. This thread convinced me to sign up for a user name so I could reply to it.

I have been working on my value charts for the past month or so, and was curious on everyone's thoughts on a couple of LB prospects that should be available in the middle rounds.

K.J. Wright has piqued my interest in the 4th/5th round. I would love to be able to snag Quan Sturdivant, and also have him near the top of my board at LB. However, Wright seems to have the measurables to be able to develop into a nice NFL player. I have Wright ranked in the mix with Casey Matthews, Mason Foster, and Lawrence Wilson.

My other thought was if Detroit ended up taking a DE in the 1st round, what is the possibility of a guy like Aldon Smith or Ryan Kerrigan developing into an OLB? Or would they likely keep them at the DE spot?

Thanks for any input.

Quote:

First things first.....welcome to Lionbacker and what took you so long to join the forum?

I believe K.J. Wright is a very intriguing prospect, likely to go late third to mid-fourth round. Pure OLB with, as you said, nice measureables for further development. I wouldn't mind the Lions taking him in the fourth if he's still available. I also like Quan Sturdivant, but see him going earlier than Wright, possibly late second round, since he can play any LB spot. My understanding is that many teams looking for LBers like Mason Foster, and he may not be there in the third for the Lions. I wouldn't burn the second rounder on him though. I'm a bit concerned about his ability to pursue, as he seems sluggish at times. Everything else spells solid ball player, though.

If the Lions were to take either Kerrigan or Aldon Smith, they would likely use them strictly at DE. Kerrigan doesn't really have the athletic skillset to be a 43 OLB successfully, in my opinion. Aldon Smith is a pure pass rusher, and given the Lions defensive philosophy of using the front four to rush the passer most of the time, Smith would not be using his natural skills at LB. Both could be good for a 34 team at OLB, but I don't think they'd work as a 43 OLB. Of the two, I think Smith is the more likely candidate to be able to make that switch to a 43 OLB, but I don't see the Lions using him in that regard.

Thanks for the reply. Depending on what the Lions do in the first couple of rounds, I wouldn't mind seeing them take Sturdivant/Wright back-to-back in the 3rd/4th rounds. The only LB that seems to be getting much play earlier in any of the materials I have seen for Detroit is Bruce Carter in the 2nd.

Personally, I think the DE talk is more of a smoke screen than anything else. I think the Lions have their eyes on the top OT available at #13. I think the best fit might be Castonzo, and ideally, they could trade down and still snag him. I also tend to like Solder as well, both better than Tyron Smith. I realize I may be in the minority on that one.

April 25th, 2011, 12:20 pm

kdsberman

Team MVP

Joined: February 20th, 2007, 10:51 pmPosts: 3426Location: Saginaw, MI

Re: Cornerbacks

I definetly dont think the DE talk is a smokescreen at all. Not saying DE is their first choice, but you cant have enough quality D-lineman.

i dont think de is a smoke screen myself because if the fords wont let the staff select smith because of his back ground and they cant trade down there not gonna go for one of these media manufactured first round ot's.the fans in detroit have spent the last 5 or 6 years crying about replacing backus and you want the same player in costanzo.this years draft is a mine field and you have to throw the rankings out the window.at 13 jimmy smith is the most talented player on the board the next being cameron jordon. these our the only two players that our really worth that pick.

April 25th, 2011, 2:55 pm

Numbers Game

Baton Girl

Joined: April 24th, 2011, 9:07 pmPosts: 14

Re: Cornerbacks

I don't disagree with the premise of drafting a top DE at 13. We could always use more DL depth. I think I would rather see them take a guy like Jimmy Smith at CB , though, if Detroit didn't deem any of the OL talent as 1st round guys.

The ideal situation is to trade down, and snag an additional pick. Even if it were a 3rd or 4th rounder, it would be great to add some depth in those rounds. Drafting in the 17-20 range would also be a prime spot for one of the OT's.

Perhaps they view their OL needs more on the interior though, in which case there could be some solid selections waiting in the 2nd/3rd rounds.

Best Player Available1. Robert Quinn - Unless Patrick Peterson is on the board (gotta stay on topic somehow), Quinn is at the top of the board. Don't be stupid2. DaQuan Bowers - The caveat is if your medical staff deems his knee good. I'm in the minority who would take the gamble.

Think About It3. Cameron Jordan - Depending on who else is available, he gets the nod due to his prototypical size/athletecism and versatility4. JJ Watt - Not gifted like Jordan, but no slouch with his tools and is relentless

Can I Get a Trade Down?5. Adrian Clayborn - He's actually my favorite dlineman behind Quinn, but I'd prefer him at a later spot over Cam and JJ at 13.

Best Player Available1. Robert Quinn - Unless Patrick Peterson is on the board (gotta stay on topic somehow), Quinn is at the top of the board. Don't be stupid2. DaQuan Bowers - The caveat is if your medical staff deems his knee good. I'm in the minority who would take the gamble.

Think About It3. Cameron Jordan - Depending on who else is available, he gets the nod due to his prototypical size/athletecism and versatility4. JJ Watt - Not gifted like Jordan, but no slouch with his tools and is relentless

Can I Get a Trade Down?5. Adrian Clayborn - He's actually my favorite dlineman behind Quinn, but I'd prefer him at a later spot over Cam and JJ at 13.

One thing in C. Jordan's favor is that we seem to like Cal players (Follett, Best).

_________________Jim Caldwell, on whether Jim Harbaugh is stealing his thunder: "Me? I don't have any thunder."

April 25th, 2011, 4:38 pm

m2karateman

RIP Killer

Joined: October 20th, 2004, 4:16 pmPosts: 10136Location: Where ever I'm at now

Re: Cornerbacks

Honolulu_Blue wrote:

Here's how I would break down the DE's at 13

Best Player Available1. Robert Quinn - Unless Patrick Peterson is on the board (gotta stay on topic somehow), Quinn is at the top of the board. Don't be stupid2. DaQuan Bowers - The caveat is if your medical staff deems his knee good. I'm in the minority who would take the gamble.

Think About It3. Cameron Jordan - Depending on who else is available, he gets the nod due to his prototypical size/athletecism and versatility4. JJ Watt - Not gifted like Jordan, but no slouch with his tools and is relentless

Can I Get a Trade Down?5. Adrian Clayborn - He's actually my favorite dlineman behind Quinn, but I'd prefer him at a later spot over Cam and JJ at 13.

A player you didn't list......Justin Houston. I wouldn't want the Lions to select him as 13th overall, but for me I would rate him as a player to be regarded highly. I think he's one of the most under rated prospects in this draft.

_________________I will not put on blinders when it comes to our QBs performances.

I don't think I really paid attention to him since he's being touted as a 3-4 rush lb. But on briefly overviewing his profile, you are right about him being someone to look at. He's got the production, albeit in a 3-4. But he's 6'3 270 and by my count bigger than Avril, even though everyone says he's undersized. Maybe he played at a lighter weight. He does look smaller than the vitals say. Biggest thing is he explodes like a cannon out of his stance.

Hate to carry this discussion on in the CB thread but Houston would be a no go for me because of his past. He got in trouble at school for breaking their substance abuse policy and that usually isn't a very good thing for most players. I watch quite a few Georgia games every year and he just doesn't stand out enough in games. There are more times than not he just isn't giving full effort, and that's scary because you have to wonder how motivated he will be when he gets that big paycheck.