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IK reminds me of Benezir in late 80s, she looked good(well quite literally) and promising. But then somebody put in her head, you got to get electable under your belt...Well those guys are not fool, if they are going to get the throne, they will run it not you 🙄🙄

For me nail in the coffin was her making deal with the Devil (aka Army), back in 88/89.

IK is following same path, he is desperate to sit on the throne. Filled party with lotas aka electable from PPP and PML, sleeping with devil. What is the difference??

What i find amazing is "ESTABLISHMENT" didn't pick up PMLN workers this time around, i mean Tareen was supposed to be their agent and if they can pickup innocent PMLN workers in NA120 then what happened here?

The moment something goes against PMLN (biggest establishment beneficiary in Pakistan's history) we will hear cries of establishment

PML-N used Pirs to win this constituency. Their candidate, Iqbal Shah, is a prominent Pir with a good following.

Another Pir,Rafiuddin Shah, has been promised a party ticket for PP-211 for the upcoming elections in return for his support. Initially, the Pir refused to support the candidate but after Shahbaz Sharif phoned him and assured him a party ticket for PP-221, he announced his support for Iqbal Shah.

Sums up the moral decay in Pakistan. People have no morals or principles; money and power is everything.

PML-N used Pirs to win this constituency. Their candidate, Iqbal Shah, is a prominent Pir with a good following.

Another Pir,Rafiuddin Shah, has been promised a party ticket for PP-211 for the upcoming elections in return for his support. Initially, the Pir refused to support the candidate but after Shahbaz Sharif phoned him and assured him a party ticket for PP-221, he announced his support for Iqbal Shah.

Sums up the moral decay in Pakistan. People have no morals or principles; money and power is everything.

Peer Sialvi Sharia waala, Peer Hasnat and many more peers are with them. Peer Rafiuddin was going to support PTI but Shahbaz Sharif personally convinced him offering a provincial ticket. These are kind of information people don't understand how Sharif mafia operates. Ab Imran inko kya offer karay k usay support karain?

People usually don't form groups in PMLN because everyone is given something by Sharifs whereas in PTI, people even leave them for not inviting them on stage or other candidates getting preference.

What i find amazing is "ESTABLISHMENT" didn't pick up PMLN workers this time around, i mean Tareen was supposed to be their agent and if they can pickup innocent PMLN workers in NA120 then what happened here?

The moment something goes against PMLN (biggest establishment beneficiary in Pakistan's history) we will hear cries of establishment

Do you remember the fuss kicked by the Nooras about workers going missing but when the case was investigated by the media there was no such thing and no FIR was even registered. @TalentSpotter

Peer Sialvi Sharia waala, Peer Hasnat and many more peers are with them. Peer Rafiuddin was going to support PTI but Shahbaz Sharif personally convinced him offering a provincial ticket. These are kind of information people don't understand how Sharif mafia operates. Ab Imran inko kya offer karay k usay support karain?

People usually don't form groups in PMLN because everyone is given something by Sharifs whereas in PTI, people even leave them for not inviting them on stage or other candidates getting preference.

Exactly. If you are with the PML-N clan, you will get financial benefits. People are rewarded according to their following. Highly influential and prominent individuals are given MNA or MPA seats while those with modest following are given positions in local government e.g. UC chairmen and secretaries. There is a systematic and comprehensive reward system in the PML-N. This is the reason for their massive popularity. It is a mafia.

Do you remember the fuss kicked by the Nooras about workers going missing but when the case was investigated by the media there was no such thing and no FIR was even registered. @TalentSpotter

Exactly, that's the incident i was talking about. Do you remember the storm it created on social media that it has become a crime now to support PMLN, Jang/Geo workers ran a campaign how their workers were being picked up by agencies and lots of them are missing only to return on election night without any torture, police report etc and apparently fauj was stopping anyone who held PMLN ballot paper.

Did you guys listen to Gulalie today? She said PMLN offered her Senate ticket in return of issuing statements against fauj. Obviously she didn't tell the whole story that she was offered all this by Ameer Muqam to run campaign against Imran Khan.

If for once we accept that PTI is just the puppet of the establishment and is dancing to their tunes, then we have nothing to fear from the establishment since they aren't even powerful enough to make PTI win a local by-election. I can't put 2 and 2 together.

PTI fully deserves this humiliation. The son of na ahal crook JKT looses miserably - what could be the reasons?

The people are not fools; they could see through the five years of relentless campaign to down the federal government. A government that was not allowed to operate with peace even for three months at a stretch.

The perennial media blast with its "Goebellian Propaganda", charges of being a traitor, three hundred zillion corruption and rigging issues, Go Nawaz Go, Siege One, Siege Two, our co-savior Qadri, Rizvi and then the exalted Dr. Shahid Masood. Nothing worked; the government did not topple, and the democracy that has been preserved since 2008 continues to thrive.

Democracy is not a scam because they did not vote for the party that I want them to vote for, and thus the illiterate masses must be educated so that they can vote for the party I want.

There is only one major reason for Pakistan's political turmoil - intervention of the military and the forces that have not allowed civilian governments to complete their terms prior to the Zardari era. These shortcuts and short-term solutions have not taken the country anywhere. We need to strengthen and preserve our democracy - Nawaz, Zardari, Bilawal, Imran etc. have no significance in the long-term. They will not be around after 50 years, but Pakistan will.

Pakistan is on the right track with two democratically elected governments completing their terms in succession. The precedence has been set and this must continue. If it does, I guarantee you that 20-25 years down the line, we will be in a much better position. However, if we persist with our old ways, we will not make any progress.

Completely agree with this.

When I say this to people they usually reply by saying that their kids and grand kids will carry on what the Nawaz’s, and the Bilawal’s are doing right now.

But their reign will definitely end eventually. People don’t give the nation enough credit because eventually the country will get sick of the same characters and their families running the country and they’ll look elsewhere.

Democracy is a long game. It’ll take a lot of time for the changes and reforms we want to see to actually take place. Many of our older generations will probably never get to see the fruits of preserving with democracy.

That is the reality. An upright, honest person cannot survive and make it big in Pakistani politics.

Imran Khan and PTI are probably too honest and upright for Pakistani politics. If they are to do well in GE 2018, they would have to make alliances here and there such as with the MQM and PSP in Karachi and with the PML-Q in Punjab and rope in electable through the use of money.

People in Punjab are not going to turn their backs on N-League any time soon. The PTI can win at least 5 to 10 seats more from Punjab if they join hands with the PML-Q.

In last elections, in around 20 constituencies in Punjab, the combined votes of the PTI and PML-Q were significantly higher than the N-League.

Not sure why PTI fans and the likes of Wajahat Khan are thumping their chests and crying like sore losers at this result. The Pakistani voting population especially in rural areas do not vote on merit but instead sell their votes for the most minor short term gains and the polling agents are so easy to buy out. It is to be accepted that a party like PTI cannot win an election in these circumstances against the monopolists like PML-N and PPP.

What Pakistan needs is an uprising like the one we saw in Iran in 1978-79, in the Phillipines in 1986, in Romania, in Russia e.t.c

Not sure why PTI fans and the likes of Wajahat Khan are thumping their chests and crying like sore losers at this result. The Pakistani voting population especially in rural areas do not vote on merit but instead sell their votes for the most minor short term gains and the polling agents are so easy to buy out. It is to be accepted that a party like PTI cannot win an election in these circumstances against the monopolists like PML-N and PPP.

What Pakistan needs is an uprising like the one we saw in Iran in 1978-79, in the Phillipines in 1986, in Romania, in Russia e.t.c

Have you ever actually been to and spent any time in rural Punjab? People don't sell their vote, they legitimately see these people as the best chance of protecting their interests. N-League voters are mostly country bumpkins who don't use facebook or PP but if you actually go there, you'll find that most are as emphatic in their support for N-League and as in your face about it as any youthiya on the internet. This whole bought votes theory is just a feelgood coping mechanism and while it does happen, it's the exception to the rule for the most part.

Have you ever actually been to and spent any time in rural Punjab? People don't sell their vote, they legitimately see these people as the best chance of protecting their interests. N-League voters are mostly country bumpkins who don't use facebook or PP but if you actually go there, you'll find that most are as emphatic in their support for N-League and as in your face about it as any youthiya on the internet. This whole bought votes theory is just a feelgood coping mechanism and while it does happen, it's the exception to the rule for the most part.

From my experience it is money and birdari that are the 2 biggest determinants of who they vote for. Ideology in the Western sense is pretty much non existent.

From my experience it is money and birdari that are the 2 biggest determinants of who they vote for. Ideology in the Western sense is pretty much non existent.

You need to recognize that your experience is extremely limited, both geographically and in terms of time since from what I understand, you were raised in the UK and have lived there all your life. Biraderi does play a role. Money does not in the sense that you're suggesting i.e. as direct transfers to voters. Money is distributed mostly to MNAs/MPAs/local government candidates who spend enough of it to throw votes a bone (fixed manhole cover here, covered pothole there). Even with that said, one thing you learn from living in their heartland is that their voters are as hardcore as anyone's.

I think its not just my experience, its the experience of many others.

He is right. PML N has large ideological support specially in rural areas. They are fierce supporters of Nawaz and sometimes when you try to discuss or argue PMLN's corruption or miss governance they react violently. Majority of them see Imran Khan as an outsider, as someone they cannot relate to. They commonly use the word "Yahoodi laabi" when Imran Khan is refered and feel that it is their moral and religious duty to support Nawaz Sharif.
Others believe that Imran Khan is also establishment ki sazish although this idea is far more prevalent in our liberal class.

Have you ever actually been to and spent any time in rural Punjab? People don't sell their vote, they legitimately see these people as the best chance of protecting their interests. N-League voters are mostly country bumpkins who don't use facebook or PP but if you actually go there, you'll find that most are as emphatic in their support for N-League and as in your face about it as any youthiya on the internet. This whole bought votes theory is just a feelgood coping mechanism and while it does happen, it's the exception to the rule for the most part.

The point is that on merit parties that have indulged in massive corruption, destroyed the economy, indulged in misgoverance should not be being bought back to the office 3-4 times in a row. Whether that is because they have the tools, knowledge on how to rig the elections, buy votes or if their voters are die hard in their support and will always vote for them regardless of their performance in office is pointless. An uneducated, illiterate majority cannot dictate the fate of the nation for the next 5-10-15-20 years

He is right. PML N has large ideological support specially in rural areas. They are fierce supporters of Nawaz and sometimes when you try to discuss or argue PMLN's corruption or miss governance they react violently. Majority of them see Imran Khan as an outsider, as someone they cannot relate to. They commonly use the word "Yahoodi laabi" when Imran Khan is refered and feel that it is their moral and religious duty to support Nawaz Sharif.
Others believe that Imran Khan is also establishment ki sazish although this idea is far more prevalent in our liberal class.

How can a Pakistani system of govt be free from influence from these people?

You need to recognize that your experience is extremely limited, both geographically and in terms of time since from what I understand, you were raised in the UK and have lived there all your life. Biraderi does play a role. Money does not in the sense that you're suggesting i.e. as direct transfers to voters. Money is distributed mostly to MNAs/MPAs/local government candidates who spend enough of it to throw votes a bone (fixed manhole cover here, covered pothole there). Even with that said, one thing you learn from living in their heartland is that their voters are as hardcore as anyone's.

This is not true. Those who vote on biradari, family, influence or monetary basis easily outweigh the people who vote on party/ideological basis. In rural areas we call it dharas, there are many influential people in a constituency who have their personal vote banks on biradari, political and jaagir basis. People wish to maintain good relations with that influential for thana/katchehry and other official works as those influential people can help them in government and civil cases. Similarly, they also expect these influential people to find them jobs. There is a community system on family/baradari basis in rural areas because the law is itself blind in Pakistan as the might is right.
This caste and baradari system is also quite visible in our so called urban areas of Lahore/Gujranwala/Faisalabad etc.
That's why a candidate can win on Q league ticket in one elections and keep his seat on N ticket in the next elections.

How can a Pakistani system of govt be free from influence from these people?

Through education but we need a competent government for that and the circle continues.

Winning elections in Pakistan is an art. PTI has poor organisational structure . Imran Khan is an ideologist, he works hard and follows his ideology but he lacks practical political acumen. He needs someone who can smoothly run day to day working of the party, distributes tickets wisely etc but he is surrounded by Qureshis, Tareens and others who have plenty of differences among themselves.

PTI should have done a lot more in KPK. They made efforts to improve basics such as education, health and police but along side they should have focussed on optics such as building dams, highways, overpass, underpass, bridges, saasti roti type scheme with Imran Khan's photo on every tandoor in KP. Massive advertisement campaign with the slogan "Badla he Pakhtunkhua badlein ge Pakistan" should have started right now.

This was the only way to change mindset of our people. To make them realize that they have lot more to lose if they won't vote for PTI.

This is not true. Those who vote on biradari, family, influence or monetary basis easily outweigh the people who vote on party/ideological basis. In rural areas we call it dharas, there are many influential people in a constituency who have their personal vote banks on biradari, political and jaagir basis. People wish to maintain good relations with that influential for thana/katchehry and other official works as those influential people can help them in government and civil cases. Similarly, they also expect these influential people to find them jobs. There is a community system on family/baradari basis in rural areas because the law is itself blind in Pakistan as the might is right.
This caste and baradari system is also quite visible in our so called urban areas of Lahore/Gujranwala/Faisalabad etc.
That's why a candidate can win on Q league ticket in one elections and keep his seat on N ticket in the next elections.

I am not aware of Gujranwala/Faisalabad side but in Potohaar region, baradri system do not have as much hold over people as it used to have.

Through education but we need a competent government for that and the circle continues.

Winning elections in Pakistan is an art. PTI has poor organisational structure . Imran Khan is an ideologist, he works hard and follows his ideology but he lacks practical political acumen. He needs someone who can smoothly run day to day working of the party, distributes tickets wisely etc but he is surrounded by Qureshis, Tareens and others who have plenty of differences among themselves.

PTI should have done a lot more in KPK. They made efforts to improve basics such as education, health and police but along side they should have focussed on optics such as building dams, highways, overpass, underpass, bridges, saasti roti type scheme with Imran Khan's photo on every tandoor in KP. Massive advertisement campaign with the slogan "Badla he Pakhtunkhua badlein ge Pakistan" should have started right now.

This was the only way to change mindset of our people. To make them realize that they have lot more to lose if they won't vote for PTI.

There probably was not an unlimited supply of money for the PTI to do each and everything possible in KPK. Human development in the form of education, health has to come first and then other things. The big mega projects initiated by the PML-N and PPP has plenty of kick backs and corruption as well.

This is not true. Those who vote on biradari, family, influence or monetary basis easily outweigh the people who vote on party/ideological basis. In rural areas we call it dharas, there are many influential people in a constituency who have their personal vote banks on biradari, political and jaagir basis. People wish to maintain good relations with that influential for thana/katchehry and other official works as those influential people can help them in government and civil cases. Similarly, they also expect these influential people to find them jobs. There is a community system on family/baradari basis in rural areas because the law is itself blind in Pakistan as the might is right.
This caste and baradari system is also quite visible in our so called urban areas of Lahore/Gujranwala/Faisalabad etc.
That's why a candidate can win on Q league ticket in one elections and keep his seat on N ticket in the next elections.

That's why I said biraderi does play a role. That said, in my experience, their voters are as stubborn as anyone's and while their reasons aren't the best (khaata hay tau lagata bhi hay), they stand by them pretty firmly. Their just as vitriolic against other parties as the youthiyas (you should have heard one of our contractors, an uncle from Khanewal in his mid 50s go on about Imran Khan and Zardari).

The maintenance of links with thana/kachehri and other officials and expectation of assistance in cases or for finding jobs is simple patronage politics, which is what I alluded to with the trickling down of money, and by extension, favors).

The point is that on merit parties that have indulged in massive corruption, destroyed the economy, indulged in misgoverance should not be being bought back to the office 3-4 times in a row. Whether that is because they have the tools, knowledge on how to rig the elections, buy votes or if their voters are die hard in their support and will always vote for them regardless of their performance in office is pointless. An uneducated, illiterate majority cannot dictate the fate of the nation for the next 5-10-15-20 years

I am not aware of Gujranwala/Faisalabad side but in Potohaar region, baradri system do not have as much hold over people as it used to have.

Baradari is only one aspect of voting at micro level. I have given you other reasons of non-ideological voting patterns , an influential could have relations with top bureaucracy, abundance of money to distribute, he could genuinely be feared for his power because of links with criminals or he be adored for his philanthropy, he could be a peer etc.....

The point is that a vast majority does not vote on ideological party basis. For example in your Attock major Iqbal group won independently because of their personal goodwill.
I don't know why people can't understand such naked realities.

That's why I said biraderi does play a role. That said, in my experience, their voters are as stubborn as anyone's and while their reasons aren't the best (khaata hay tau lagata bhi hay), they stand by them pretty firmly. Their just as vitriolic against other parties as the youthiyas (you should have heard one of our contractors, an uncle from Khanewal in his mid 50s go on about Imran Khan and Zardari).

The maintenance of links with thana/kachehri and other officials and expectation of assistance in cases or for finding jobs is simple patronage politics, which is what I alluded to with the trickling down of money, and by extension, favors).

Of course there are diehard fans of N league as well like any other party. But dharas/groups, local relationships/affiliations make electables very important for a party. There is a reason that people like Danyal Aziz, Zaid Hamid are re inducted into N league and individuals such as Fawad Chaudhry, Hamid Nasir Chatha allowed in PTI.
There are very few areas where party votebank could outnumber personal vote bank of a candidate.

Oh please, you do know that PTI had won this seat in 2015 on a by-election with 40,000 votes lead when the same PML-N was ruling. Accept the failure, you are embarrassing yourself. Have a good night's sleep

Friend we havent heard from you after your celebrations. Whats wrong, couldnt face answering questions on the billions spent. Just watch the Vid from your favourite Klasra on how much the useless Noora President spent on renovation- 118 crore when women are given birth on the streets.

He is right. PML N has large ideological support specially in rural areas. They are fierce supporters of Nawaz and sometimes when you try to discuss or argue PMLN's corruption or miss governance they react violently. Majority of them see Imran Khan as an outsider, as someone they cannot relate to. They commonly use the word "Yahoodi laabi" when Imran Khan is refered and feel that it is their moral and religious duty to support Nawaz Sharif.
Others believe that Imran Khan is also establishment ki sazish although this idea is far more prevalent in our liberal class.

I agree PMLN has strong support in most Punjab and money is not the only factor (not saying it plays no part). In rural areas though PMLN support is limited (still more than PTI) and local biraadri and groups play major role and hence the reason how many Independents defeat all major parties to get better deals after winning the election.

Imran Khan as you said is seen as yahoodi lobby, promotes western culture (Naach gaanay waali party hai) and then we have our liberal brothers who consider him biggest threat to roshan Pakistan, Taliban supporter blah blah so these two extremes also go against him.

People do consider Imran Khan as honest person but don't really see an issue with Nawaz Sharif since he has built roads and motorways "Kuch khata hai tou lagaata bhi hai"

They ask Imran khan ne kya kiya, Nawaz has given us all the roads but no one ever asked them if Imran Khan ever became a minister let alone Prime Minnister so how do they expect him to build their beloved roads?

I agree PMLN has strong support in most Punjab and money is not the only factor (not saying it plays no part). In rural areas though PMLN support is limited (still more than PTI) and local biraadri and groups play major role and hence the reason how many Independents defeat all major parties to get better deals after winning the election.

Imran Khan as you said is seen as yahoodi lobby, promotes western culture (Naach gaanay waali party hai) and then we have our liberal brothers who consider him biggest threat to roshan Pakistan, Taliban supporter blah blah so these two extremes also go against him.

People do consider Imran Khan as honest person but don't really see an issue with Nawaz Sharif since he has built roads and motorways "Kuch khata hai tou lagaata bhi hai"

They ask Imran khan ne kya kiya, Nawaz has given us all the roads but no one ever asked them if Imran Khan ever became a minister let alone Prime Minnister so how do they expect him to build their beloved roads?

Yahoodi lobby lolll...

PTI fans and their denial.

When its clear these are the same people that voted for Tareen with a 40k difference.

IK reminds me of Benezir in late 80s, she looked good(well quite literally) and promising. But then somebody put in her head, you got to get electable under your belt...Well those guys are not fool, if they are going to get the throne, they will run it not you

For me nail in the coffin was her making deal with the Devil (aka Army), back in 88/89.

IK is following same path, he is desperate to sit on the throne. Filled party with lotas aka electable from PPP and PML, sleeping with devil. What is the difference??

The difference is he takes advice on his political ambitions from a Pir, our country will be held ransom to a lady with supernatural powers who dreams up weird stuff then tells her pupil to follow her 'spritual guidance'

When its clear these are the same people that voted for Tareen with a 40k difference.

Forget rural areas of Pakistan, i am talking about our community get together (dinners, birthdays etc) in Australia where politics is hot topic 90% of the times. Other than few PMLN who discuss Imran's deviation from original promises which is fair criticism, most common arguments:

The difference is he takes advice on his political ambitions from a Pir, our country will be held ransom to a lady with supernatural powers who dreams up weird stuff then tells her pupil to follow her 'spritual guidance'

Of yes, i forgot this is the new lollypop fed to PMLN supporters through their personal attack campaign by their Geo/Jang mafia.

Yes eveyrthing is a conspiracy against the great Imran Khan! Who would rid the country of corruption and nepotism if not for these mafioso running the country.

No sir of course peerni advised Imran Khan to plant a Billion trees so more Jin and Bhoot can be produced who will help Imran Khan win elections and this is why he spends so time in mountains so he can communicate with Jins as per peerni's advice

Not to forget Peerni has helped them form their industrial policy (which they announced last month) and they are working on environment, economic and foreign policy as well.

No sir of course peerni advised Imran Khan to plant a Billion trees so more Jin and Bhoot can be produced who will help Imran Khan win elections and this is why he spends so time in mountains so he can communicate with Jins as per peerni's advice

Not to forget Peerni has helped them form their industrial policy (which they announced last month) and they are working on environment, economic and foreign policy as well.

Social media is a beautiful delusion. Makes one think they are the real deal. As proven by what goes on in the streets has nothing to do with social media. What PTI bullies try to portray online has nothing to do with what goes on the streets.

Your party will go extinct if it keeps investing itself in pop, urban shenanigans. Highly likely

Social media is a beautiful delusion. Makes one think they are the real deal. As proven by what goes on in the streets has nothing to do with social media. What PTI bullies try to portray online has nothing to do with what goes on the streets.

Your party will go extinct if it keeps investing itself in pop, urban shenanigans. Highly likely

Regardless of how fancy it seems, trees never voted for ppl.

But at least it wont suck the life out of the poor. Billions stolen by the Sharifs and the best you can do is some vid.

I just have one question for PMLN walas. In all these years of PMLN rule be it punjab or the centre has there been any real prgress towards the setting up of a national or local health service that is free at the point of use? I'm just curious because I hear they are very experienced and have built roads so therefore logic dictates that they should also have done some organisational change too that can help the common person.

so for example if I were to break my arm, would I be given the same treatment in a private hospital as a government hospital?

I just have one question for PMLN walas. In all these years of PMLN rule be it punjab or the centre has there been any real prgress towards the setting up of a national or local health service that is free at the point of use? I'm just curious because I hear they are very experienced and have built roads so therefore logic dictates that they should also have done some organisational change too that can help the common person.

so for example if I were to break my arm, would I be given the same treatment in a private hospital as a government hospital?

PML-N has been in power in Punjab for 23 of the last 33 years.

It really is something. The length of time they have been in power in Punjab is enough for regions to change their destinies.

However I doubt there would be many people who would say that Punjab is in a better state today than when Nawaz Sharif first took power in 1985.

Politics is a very complicated issue in Pakistan.People do not vote for political parties but for individuals.People do not vote for N-league but for their local candidates.Ideology plays no part in voting.Politics is a game of electables in Pakistan;electables make or break a party.

An example, Barrister Sultan from Azad Kashmir was associated with the PPPP and never lost an election in two decades. After he switched to the PTI around 3 years ago, by-elections were called and he won against an alliance of PPPP and PML-N. There was no significant dent in his votebank.

When I say this to people they usually reply by saying that their kids and grand kids will carry on what the Nawaz’s, and the Bilawal’s are doing right now.

But their reign will definitely end eventually. People don’t give the nation enough credit because eventually the country will get sick of the same characters and their families running the country and they’ll look elsewhere.

Democracy is a long game. It’ll take a lot of time for the changes and reforms we want to see to actually take place. Many of our older generations will probably never get to see the fruits of preserving with democracy.

Deluded post. There is no way they would willingly let anyone else win, its impossible enough as it is with them throwing state money at senators and private media and this is them on the ropes. In full power over a decade or two and with no opposition they would 100% become dictators. If it were left upto PMLN they would anoint Nawaz as some Messiah, officially. Nawaz already tried that in 1998 is my proof. Maryam is next in line, and Maryam has already started grooming her son for politics. PPP is content in Sindh.

When I say this to people they usually reply by saying that their kids and grand kids will carry on what the Nawaz’s, and the Bilawal’s are doing right now.

But their reign will definitely end eventually. People don’t give the nation enough credit because eventually the country will get sick of the same characters and their families running the country and they’ll look elsewhere.

Democracy is a long game. It’ll take a lot of time for the changes and reforms we want to see to actually take place. Many of our older generations will probably never get to see the fruits of preserving with democracy.

Abhi Maryam Nawaz ki baari nahi ayi aur woh apnay betay Junaid Safdar ko tayyar kar rahi hai.... these families are in it for the long haul. 50 years from now Nawaz or Maryam may not be ruling but their grandkids and great grandkids would be around.

Well Bhutto was hanged 40 years ago. His family is still hugely popular and vying for PM'ship. What makes you think the situation will be any different a few decades down the road?

It really is something. The length of time they have been in power in Punjab is enough for regions to change their destinies.

However I doubt there would be many people who would say that Punjab is in a better state today than when Nawaz Sharif first took power in 1985.

thats why I asked the question. Why doesnt a supporter of NS just come on here and answer this very basic question. The UK established a health service when the country was destroyed and under heavey debt. I mean they had rationing going on for goodness sake..we have had periods of growth for many years yet nobody seems to be able to answer this straight question. Why dont we have a punjab health service or a national health service? I want a noora to answer this question..

It really is something. The length of time they have been in power in Punjab is enough for regions to change their destinies.

However I doubt there would be many people who would say that Punjab is in a better state today than when Nawaz Sharif first took power in 1985.

Honestly... even if people of Punjab are happy with their performance they have full right to keep electing them, but the worst part is their choice gets to be the PM of the country even though Nawaz and Shahbaz may not even win a councilor seat in the other three provinces.

Abhi Maryam Nawaz ki baari nahi ayi aur woh apnay betay Junaid Safdar ko tayyar kar rahi hai.... these families are in it for the long haul. 50 years from now Nawaz or Maryam may not be ruling but their grandkids and great grandkids would be around.

Well Bhutto was hanged 40 years ago. His family is still hugely popular and vying for PM'ship. What makes you think the situation will be any different a few decades down the road?

Let them groom their kids for future political roles. Eventually the nation will reject them, if we don’t keep cutting every party’s tenure short.

If we carry one doing that to our system it will not be able to develop. Plus these politcians will carry using mujhe kyun nikala as a sob story and get elected again.

I’m not a noon league supporter nor a ppp supporter, I’m thinking of the long term here.

Let them groom their kids for future political roles. Eventually the nation will reject them, if we don’t keep cutting every party’s tenure short.

If we carry one doing that to our system it will not be able to develop. Plus these politcians will carry using mujhe kyun nikala as a sob story and get elected again.

I’m not a noon league supporter nor a ppp supporter, I’m thinking of the long term here.

So if I understand correctly what you are saying we let a known thief continue his thieving ways and just let the voter base reject him because otherwise he will cry mughay kyun nikala and will persuade our awaam to vote for him again?

Abhi Maryam Nawaz ki baari nahi ayi aur woh apnay betay Junaid Safdar ko tayyar kar rahi hai.... these families are in it for the long haul. 50 years from now Nawaz or Maryam may not be ruling but their grandkids and great grandkids would be around.

Well Bhutto was hanged 40 years ago. His family is still hugely popular and vying for PM'ship. What makes you think the situation will be any different a few decades down the road?

Congress Party lost in India after many decades, it takes time, Situation changes if you give time to democracy, the age of continuous democracy in Pakistan is about ten years and even this is delicate democracy as Military establishment holds a lot of power, so it is not some one party rule like people think it is.

Don't know what people like you would have done in India when Congress won for 60 years out of total 70 years? Maybe leaving the nation like many Indians did in this time period.

So if I understand correctly what you are saying we let a known thief continue his thieving ways and just let the voter base reject him because otherwise he will cry mughay kyun nikala and will persuade our awaam to vote for him again?

If any politician is doing something illegal then they should be prosecuted no questions asked.

Nawaz sharif getting ousted hasn’t stopped him from grooming his children to become politcians in future, neither has it stopped in him from appointed power to his close relatives.

It’s a good thing that he was exposed I’m not denying that. All I’m saying is that we should let elected parties complete their terms as only one political party has completed their term in our 70 year long history.

If we don’t then these parties and their leaders will always come back stronger than they were before.

If any politician is doing something illegal then they should be prosecuted no questions asked.

Nawaz sharif getting ousted hasn’t stopped him from grooming his children to become politcians in future, neither has it stopped in him from appointed power to his close relatives.

It’s a good thing that he was exposed I’m not denying that. All I’m saying is that we should let elected parties complete their terms as only one political party has completed their term in our 70 year long history.

If we don’t then these parties and their leaders will always come back stronger than they were before.

The PTI is split down the middle and Imran has no clue what to do about it

As the dust settles on the NA-154 by-election in Lodhran, south Punjab, countless arguments are being made and rhetoric ramped up about what happened.

Imran Khan’s Pakistan Tehreek-e-Insaf (PTI) is calling the result a slight set back in the long run, while the Pakistan Muslim League-Nawaz (PML-N) is claiming the outcome to be the ultimate vindication of the stance and narrative Nawaz Sharif has built since his disqualification.

But what exactly happened in Lodhran? How did the result come about? What does it mean for both the parties and the country as Pakistan heads into general election this year?

Right after the polls, I spoke to local party leaders and voters. Here is what I found.

What happened?

It was a shock and completely unexpected result. Neither of the parties was ready for what transpired, but the voters in the area, and in south Punjab in general, saw this coming.

For the past two years or so, the PTI has been embroiled in a serious split at the local level. And nowhere is this split and infighting more pronounced than in south Punjab.

Every union council, tehsil and district has two competing groups of the PTI.

One group is led by Shah Mahmood Qureshi and his allies, while the other one is led by Jahangir Tareen and Ishaq Khakwani.

Qureshi’s group includes the PTI old guard as well as his own political allies from the Pakistan People’s Party days. In south Punjab, these are people who have either been in the PTI from the start or were the early adopters of it.

Tareen’s group consists of those who came in right after the 2013 election. These were the famed electables who were recruited at lightning speed right after the election, under the pretence of winning much needed seats for the PTI in 2018.

Imran Khan signed off on it because he needed candidates who could deliver results next time around, and Tareen was able to rope in these personalities with promises of skipping the ticket line and jumping to the centre.

It is important to understand why Khan relies so heavily on Tareen, but that is a discussion for another time.

Since then, both groups of the party actively started sabotaging each other. In his bid to become the chosen number two, Tareen pumped in resources for his favoured people and went after Qureshi’s group.

Tareen’s social media team, as well as the official media team of the PTI, essentially focused only on what Tareen was doing in south Punjab and slowly pushed Qureshi back.

This has been going on for over two years and, at this stage, Qureshi feels he has been marginalised. Let me illustrate this with a few examples.

Take for instance the Khanewal seat. Muhammad Khan Daha is the PML-N person from there. Against him are two groups of the PTI, fighting for the same seat.

Ahmed Hiraj is backed by Tareen and, even though he joined the party only six months ago, he was a main speaker at the party’s rally in Khanewal, while Hamid Hiraj, who is backed by Qureshi and has been in the party since 2014, was not allowed to speak even after Imran Khan himself indicated that he should.

In Jahaniya, the PML-N candidate is Haji Nazeer Jutt, the Qureshi-backed contestant is Sohail Khagga, and Tareen’s person is Murtaza Maitla.

When push comes to shove and it is time to pick a candidate, Imran Khan, historically, goes with Tareen’s candidate because of the myth that his candidates can deliver the extra votes that electables bring with them. Qureshi’s candidates are more rooted in union council and tehsil politics.

What ends up happening is this: the electable does bring in his 20,000 to 35,000 voters but, at the same time, the party loses out on old voters as well as those of the other group as its leader chooses to run as an independent candidate.

This vote splitting and infighting normally leads to the PML-N winning. This is a consistent problem that the PTI must deal with in south Punjab, which got highlighted again in the NA-154 by-election.

Pir Rafiuddin, who has shifted multiple parties and still has a decent amount of pull, was promised by Tareen and Khakwani that if the opportunity arose, he would get a shot at the NA seat. That was the commitment he was working under.

But when the time came, Tareen chose his own son over Rafiuddin and, at that point, the pir decided to go his own way, costing the PTI the votes they were hoping to rely on.

Add to that a very local issue that most people in rest of the country are not aware of: sugar cane buying.

In this whole region, from Lodhran to Bahawalpur, there are two massive sugar mills: Ashraf Sugar in Bahawalpur and Tareen’s sugar mills.

Over a period, the two have systematically built a monopoly on buying sugar cane during the crushing season. They hold off buying till the crop is about to go bad so that they can buy it at bottom prices.

They have been involved in this practice for years and local farmers who depend on the crops for livelihood have been wronged enough to know what they are doing. This resentment also played a part in this specific instance.

But this all builds up to a larger problem that the PTI is facing in south Punjab as well as in most parts of the country. The party is split down the middle and Imran Khan has no clue what to do about it.

The larger problem

As I explained earlier, the PTI is split badly. Let’s take the example of what will probably pan out in Khanewal during the general election.

Mohammad Khan Daha will have his PML-N ticket and for the PTI, it will be either Ahmed Hiraj of the Tareen group or Hamid Hiraj of the Qureshi group.

In any case, the one who will not get the ticket, from the looks of it, is Ahmed’s brother, Hamid Hiraj. He will run independently.

Both brothers will battle each other, while Daha will sit pretty and win his own voters plus the PML-N voters, and grab the seat.

Now repeat exactly this all over Khyber Pakhtunkhwa and Punjab. That is how and why the PTI will end up losing again to the PML-N in 2018.

The PTI lacks two things at this stage that the NA-154 result made amply clear. Firstly, they lack discipline and, secondly, they lack the understanding of local politics.

National rhetoric works better in cities; it does not work as well in rural or peri-urban areas, where the voters are focused on localised issues.

They do not obsessively watch TV or follow social media. For them, voting is a choice between who gets things done, what caste they are, what have they done lately, and what they will do in the future.

With regards to party discipline, many fail to understand that it is something that comes from the top. If the party leader is not willing to double down on it, it cannot be expected that everyone else will follow through.

Imran Khan must choose between Tareen and Qureshi before the general election. Nawaz Sharif, on the other hand, does not have such problems because his party does not have factions at this level.

The PML-N policy is very clear: the tanzim comes down hard on dissenters and moves swiftly to pick favourites in any region.

The PTI lacks that and Imran Khan needs to realise that for this party to be competitive, he will need to make these tough choices.

Local politics > national rhetoric

While the PML-N is calling the result a vindication of the national narrative they have created since Nawaz Sharif’s disqualification, this is about local politics.

In the aftermath of the loss, multiple PTI supporters and other anti-PML-N people bashed the voters for making a bad choice and selling out.

The fact is that this is deeply disrespectful towards these voters and democracy in general. The voters make their choices based on localised information and what is best for them.

To berate them and expect them to follow through on the national narrative is deeply delusional. Voters do not need sermons; they need action. And the PTI should be worried sick because the in-fighting and the pontification is not really helping their cause in an election year.

The reason the PML-N can hold on to its voters is because they have spent years building local voter profiles across Punjab and have figured out that what works in Lahore will not work in Bahawalpur.

Their narrative and approach change based on the region. In 2012/2013, they set up structures to have detailed in-house voter analysis to see what the priorities list was and what worked where.

The PTI has never gone down that route. That is why when it comes down to the numbers game, the PML-N has an edge because it invested in building up systems before anyone else did.

So, when we look back at NA-154, the lessons are obvious. Local politics is important, no matter what the national rhetoric is.