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Re: Actual Lumen Readings by bigchelis in 10.5in Sphere.

Originally Posted by recDNA

I wonder if Quark drivers drove the XP-G at higher amps if the tint wouldn't be so green?

The XP-G is 'specced' for 350 ma with a max of 1.5a; RCRs drive it around 1.25a, CR123s around 900-100 ma - it should be more then enough current, if anything they're being overdriven. I think it's simply a product of the manufacturing process; it's entirely possible that 4sevens is buying cheaper binnings with more variance and less pure white to cut costs down to the $50 mark. XP-G lights are still pretty hard to find, the costs don't seem to be dropping as much as expected.

@bigc: It would be awesome if someday you got numbers for a K-106 on a 14500. I measured 1.3a at the tailcap, which for a Q5 would be somewhat less output then a 1.25a XP-G. But a bad driver and poor reflector (my K-106 is heavily textured) could cut down output significantly.

Re: Actual Lumen Readings by bigchelis in 10.5in Sphere.

Thanks to JustinCase and Josh I have took the leap of faith in search of more lumens and purchased some Arctic Silver 5. I purchased mine at my local Fry's Electronics and it is $9ish with tax and you only get a tiny tiny 3.5grams

I put that compound around the Nailbender P60 SST-50 2.5A pill.

I can tell you that I felt the bezel noticeably warmer (which it certainly did) at 3 minutes, but I rather show you how it affected lumens.
I used the same IS Sphere, the same DBS Dereelight Hosts, and the same IMR 18650. I know it is not much gain, but every little helps.

Re: Actual Lumen Readings by bigchelis in 10.5in Sphere.

So show I'm excited to learn.

Also, remember that thermal paste takes some practice and experience to do correctly. I've done it 30+ times myself, and I'm still learning. The general rule is that less is more and you never, ever let it touch your hands. Wash your hands in rubbing alcohol (preferably 99% isopropanol), and completely clean the threads on the pill and reflector with a soft, lint-free cloth and alcohol. Apply a small amount and use a finger covered in saran wrap to spread it around the threads. Then screw it in and unscrew it a couple of times so it's evenly distributed before tightening it very snugly.

If you really want the very best results, use Arctic Silver MX-3 instead of AS5, but it's expensive (20-25$ per tube) and HORRIBLY hard to put on. It clumps together and is sticky; it's more like taffy then thermal paste. I've done it many, many times and it took me over 45 minutes to recoat my graphics card last night after a benchmark run. I'm not even sure I could apply it effectively to the threads.

AS5 is nice in that it's partially liquid. If your new and having a hard time with it, heat a cup of water in the microwave and soak the tube in it for a few minutes before using it - it'll make it more fluid and less viscous.

Just thought I'd post this for people new to thermal paste and wondering how to apply it or what kind to buy

EDIT: Saw you edited in results. Not bad, but I personally think you would see a bigger difference when holding it in your hand. For your listed results, the greatest thermal barrier is still between the flashlight body and the ambient air; air is a good insulator, so the body has a hard time transferring the heat away and a lot of heat has to be transferred from the pill to the body to get the temperature high enough to transfer the heat to the atmosphere. If you were holding the light, your hand would provide a thermal pathway, and the thermal gradient between the P60 pill and the reflector would be of greater significance.

Testing with a fan or other means of active cooling would be a way to test this theory.

I used a Surefire 6P hosts w/ Solarforce L2 bezel with UCL lens. I used an IMR 18650 and a Surefire twistie stock tail cap. I put more cooper tape and litteraly forced it in the 6P. I put more Arctic Silver too then tested it for OTF lumens and here is my results. I did notice the tube by the tailcap was warm and not just the bezel

Oh and I did test the SST-50 in the 100% same format as MrGman did. In my 10.5in IS Sphere this is what I got. Pretty much identical except my turn-on lumens were higher, but you can at least see how much better the overall performance is with the Arctic Silver 5.1 sec = 50030 sec = 435.41 min = 422.32 min = 4103 min = 403.1

Re: Actual Lumen Readings by bigchelis in 10.5in Sphere.

This is the 1st time I use AS5 and I been putting on my Test Subjects by using pliers to hold the pills. The only time I touch that compound is when I screw it in, but clean my fingers on the outside of the reflector. Of course I then wash my hands clean of all AS5.

This is how my P60 Pills look when I am done and how they look when on the DBS Turbo bezel. Any advise is welcomed. I don't know if I am using too much, but it makes my lumens remain high throught the runtime

Previously; I had tested my Dereelight P60 drop-in regulated at 2.1A. I tested with just cooper tape in my 6P bored +18650 ext. I re-tested it with Arctic Silver 5 and the initial lumens went way up. Look how the lumens don't drop as much too. I think this AS5 helps the P60 drop-ins the most, but it helped my DBS bezel lego's a bit as well.

Re: Actual Lumen Readings by bigchelis in 10.5in Sphere.

*GULP*

That's a MASSIVE amount of AS5. For a CPU, which has an area of roughly 2 square inches, I use a dollip about the size of a grain of rice. And a reflector\P60 pill is a lot smaller then 2 square inches. AS5 is designed to fill microscopic gaps in the surface, and can actually act as an insulator if it's too thick. I've fried a CPU by putting too much of it on.

But, since it seems to be working, it must still do the trick. Since flashlights deal with far less heat at lower temperatures with rougher construction, maybe you do need more to plug gaps. Still, it's a lot

Re: Actual Lumen Readings by bigchelis in 10.5in Sphere.

BigC there is something wrong in that 6p comparison. AS5 will not affect the turn on numbers. It won't have much affect at 30 sec either. Something is amiss.

This is pure speculation but maybe it is helping electrically. FYI that is way way way too much AS5 on that. I don't think is will cause a problem like it would with a CPU but there is just no need for that much.

Re: Actual Lumen Readings by bigchelis in 10.5in Sphere.

I was thinking the same thing as well, that the electrical conduction must be getting better to cause turn on readings to get better like that. I could see that with that generous amount that the conduction into the host shell inner wall is being improved somewhat with all that Silver paste. Goes to show you how resistive a mechanical contact is even with generous surface area.

but also if he went from a solarforce host with the clicky switch to a real Surefire 6P twistie tailcap switch that uses all that surface area of the spring loaded plate for the electrical return contact versus the little spring loaded internal switch contact of a Solarforce unit that is probably 100 milliohms of contact resistance, that would make a difference also. It all adds up.

Re: Actual Lumen Readings by bigchelis in 10.5in Sphere.

Thank you all for the tips. I guess it was alot since I ran out now

When I screw in the MC-E 2.1A pill by Dereelight in my P60 reflector a lot of it gutted out. I used the left over to put around the cooper tape and outside the bezel too. It is not pretty, but as many of you saw the performance was better. In fact, one peculiar thing is that I notice the tailcap is warm too.

Krammer5150 we need to test your 2.5A M bin P60 DX drop-in before and after we apply AS5 to see if you get the same results.

Re: Actual Lumen Readings by bigchelis in 10.5in Sphere.

Yuk... LOL I don't know if I want to do that to my light.

You should also be aware that it gets really runny when it warms up. its like dried toothpaste when cool, but quickly liquefies when warm. I dont know what would happen if that stuff were to run down on the +B.

I think there are metallic particles in AS5, that might scratch the UCL coating of you try and wipe it off your lens. I am not sure if its good for the threads either.

Re: Actual Lumen Readings by bigchelis in 10.5in Sphere.

AS5 is slightly capacitive so it could be allowing more current draw as well the improved heat sinking.

Josh..you have to remember the clamping pressure associated with CPU to HSF/WB mounts. These drop-in are not being pressed together any where near what a CPU is.

IIRC, one of the beast thermal greases for large "voids" is one of the ShinEtsu variants.

p.s. Josh isn't it Arctic Cooling MX-3 instead of Arctic Silver? Even since IC7 Diamond has been released I haven't looked back on my PC builds so I haven't watched any recent developments.

Travis

I don't think the clamping pressure is a big issue. Like BigC said, the dropins are being jammed in quite hard. A few months or so ago I did some tests with a Heatkiller v3 waterblock and i7 CPU with a screw-in backplate to see how temperature varied, and it really didn't make much of a difference all the way up to where the cooler wasn't being held down much more then the weight of the block. You are correct, it's Arctic Cooling instead of Arctic Silver (same brand name, different product line), I just got used to the convenience of writing it as AS. I haven't tried the ShinEtsu series as it tends to be more expensive without benefits for CPUs, but if it can bridge larger gaps it would indeed do better. I thought about IC7 Diamond for my main build, but initial reviews didn't really show it beating MX-3.

One way to test if electrical conductivity is a factor would be to try AS Ceramic, it's designed to be non-conductive so you would have to remember to leave a space bare for electrical contact. Also, online you can get 12 or 20 gram tubes for ~$10-12, a lot cheaper then the 3.5g.

Re: Actual Lumen Readings by bigchelis in 10.5in Sphere.

Big C.,

I just made a Triple XPG R5 with LXP optics, direct drive on Mag 1C using DX C-lion. It's crazy bright & I think it might beat out the SSR-50 5A mag. The host is bored to accept 26mm IMR 25500.

I am interested in sending to you for a test. Would you compare Dx C-lion & IMR 26500 the same way you did with the SSR-50 & post the numbers next to the SSR-50 light. I'd like to have two > 1000 lumen OTF lights side by side on your chart

Re: Actual Lumen Readings by bigchelis in 10.5in Sphere.

I just made a Triple XPG R5 with LXP optics, direct drive on Mag 1C using DX C-lion. It's crazy bright & I think it might beat out the SSR-50 5A mag. The host is bored to accept 26mm IMR 25500.

I am interested in sending to you for a test. Would you compare Dx C-lion & IMR 26500 the same way you did with the SSR-50 & post the numbers next to the SSR-50 light. I'd like to have two > 1000 lumen OTF lights side by side on your chart

let me know

Send it on over. PM SENT.

The 3 XP-G R5 is suppose to be more efficient than the SST-50 at 5A now we can conclude without a doubt if it is brighter too.

Re: Actual Lumen Readings by bigchelis in 10.5in Sphere.

I'd like to see a 5x or 6x XP-G setup in a 26650 host. The efficiency of the XP-Gs at <1A draw is amazing. More efficiency means more light and less heat. It would cost quite a bit, though. I'm halfway tempted to buy some parts and start trying it myself, but I've gone down that slippery slope before with various other hobbies, and it's a place I don't want to be. I always end up spending three times as much as I should and losing all my free evenings.