I'm pretty certain from that FDA link, and just from the general bits of information rattling round in the back of my brain that I picked up over time that cosmetic ingredients don't have to be tested, but I do believe that pharmaceuticals do have to be tested on animals in the US before they're tested on paid volunteers and then marketed.

I'm very happy CVS still seems to be ok. CVS store brand is my jam.

_________________In addition to BB creams, we now have CC creams and even DD creams. Where's my ZZ cream? I need help growing a sweet beard.-amandabear

Well that sucks. Revlon Colorsilk was my favorite cheap drugstore hair dye. I know there are vegan alternatives like Naturtint, but it costs $17 here. I switched from Mitchum to Lafes deodorant a while back, and it's working well for me even in hot weather. It doesn't stop perspiration but keeps my pits from stinking.

I'm glad that CVS store brands are not animal tested, for now anyway.

_________________Again, you are all brilliant and sexy. And I am lavender-laden and secure in my masculinity. - Sir Brancis Facon

Joined: Tue Nov 30, 2010 8:03 pmPosts: 6308Location: The State Of No R's

jessilikewhoa wrote:

...but I do believe that pharmaceuticals do have to be tested on animals in the US before they're tested on paid volunteers and then marketed.

If I remember correctly, and don't quote me, it's something like 5 years on rats, then 1 year on monkeys and then 1-3 years on humans before it can be considered for review.

_________________"...anarchists only want to burn cars and punch cops."- nickvicious"We'll be eating our own words 30 years from now when we're demanding our legislators outlaw aerosol-based cyber dildo-wielding death holograms."- Brian

Joined: Tue Nov 30, 2010 8:03 pmPosts: 6308Location: The State Of No R's

Are you guys just really good at knowing the ingredients off the top of your head or do you email brands like CVS about their ingredients? I can tell a large number of animal ingredients off the top of my head but there's always something sneaky it seems. Like I would have never assumed the glycerin in St. Ives products was derived from animals. I feel like I'm being really anal. I'm just wondering how everyone else does it.

_________________"...anarchists only want to burn cars and punch cops."- nickvicious"We'll be eating our own words 30 years from now when we're demanding our legislators outlaw aerosol-based cyber dildo-wielding death holograms."- Brian

The Colorsilk isn't all vegan, the conditioner packet in it contains silk. I've used it myself, so not judging.

I don't know if you have a Sally Beauty supply or not, but if you do their store brands, including Ion aren't tested on animals. Ion marks their shampoos, conditioners and styling products clearly as to which are vegan and which aren't. They sell Ion hair color and developer, though neither are marked as vegan. I don't know if that's because they aren't vegan, or if they just don't mark the color. Either way it's an option in the same vein as the Colorsilk.

Paul Mitchell are still Leaping Bunny certified, but their colors aren't for sale to the public, salon use only, and every color is their line has a beeswax base. Again, not vegan, but CF.

I've been thinking of trying Naturtint, but I don't want to spend the money if it doesn't work, or fades right away, so I've been either getting my hair colored with Paul Mitchell stuff at school because I get a discount, or using Ion or using Goldwell I buy at the pro-only store, which might not be vegan, but is on the Peta list.

Hair color is hard if you don't want to mess around with henna.

_________________In addition to BB creams, we now have CC creams and even DD creams. Where's my ZZ cream? I need help growing a sweet beard.-amandabear

Are you guys just really good at knowing the ingredients off the top of your head or do you email brands like CVS about their ingredients? I can tell a large number of animal ingredients off the top of my head but there's always something sneaky it seems. Like I would have never assumed the glycerin in St. Ives products was derived from animals. I feel like I'm being really anal. I'm just wondering how everyone else does it.

First I read through for the obvious stuff, the carmine, and lanolin/lanolin derivatives, and bee products. Then I read through for anything on the Peta animal ingredient list that can only come from animals, then if that's good I see what there is that can come from either plants, animals, or synthetics, and here's where my veganness isn't great, mostly for financial reasons, if it doesn't have very many ingredients from unknown sources, I buy it. I don't do this for most products, like lipstick, eyeshadow, face wash and face scrub, deodorant, blush, liquid eyeliner, that stuff is easy to find vegan and affordable and it doesn't bother my sensitive skin. But my night creams and eye creams and foundation all contain ingredients from unknown sources, because I'm acne prone with sensitive eyes and skin, and when I was using all natural, healthy vegan products my face was covered in cystic acne. When I've strayed from Clinique or Almay foundation my face has been covered in cystic acne. Alba Botanica have a great salicylic acid moisturizer I use for days, but at night I switch between Eucerin and Mario Badescu face creams, and Mario Badescu and Murad eye creams.

I did email Physician's Formula about one of their foundations to see if it's vegan, I'm hoping I hear back, because if it is vegan I'll include it in a foundation quest review I'm doing for Oh, Pretty Vegan. If I don't hear back I might try it for my own use anyway, but not promote it anywhere, because it has some ingredients from unknown sources.

So basically I just try to do the best I can within my budget and skincare needs. I would never tell anyone else to use something unless I could confirm it was vegan, or disclosed the info like I did in my previous post about what it contains, or that I don't know, and anything I do for MBM's blog will only be products that are 100% vegan.

_________________In addition to BB creams, we now have CC creams and even DD creams. Where's my ZZ cream? I need help growing a sweet beard.-amandabear

I email, always, for anything that isn't labeled vegan (on the package or on the company's website- and those are the things I go for first). There's just so much that I wouldn't be able to even pronounce nevermind know the source of- Pentaerythrityl Tetraisostearate, for example. The hell? (That was from a Sephora lip balm I emailed about, which turned out to not be vegan).

The Colorsilk isn't all vegan, the conditioner packet in it contains silk. I've used it myself, so not judging.

I don't know if you have a Sally Beauty supply or not, but if you do their store brands, including Ion aren't tested on animals. Ion marks their shampoos, conditioners and styling products clearly as to which are vegan and which aren't. They sell Ion hair color and developer, though neither are marked as vegan. I don't know if that's because they aren't vegan, or if they just don't mark the color. Either way it's an option in the same vein as the Colorsilk.

Paul Mitchell are still Leaping Bunny certified, but their colors aren't for sale to the public, salon use only, and every color is their line has a beeswax base. Again, not vegan, but CF.

I've been thinking of trying Naturtint, but I don't want to spend the money if it doesn't work, or fades right away, so I've been either getting my hair colored with Paul Mitchell stuff at school because I get a discount, or using Ion or using Goldwell I buy at the pro-only store, which might not be vegan, but is on the Peta list.

Hair color is hard if you don't want to mess around with henna.

Oh I've used Ion hair color before and liked it, and the Ion deep conditioner packet is great. Thanks for the reminder!

I use the conditioner only method to clean my hair & scalp, and it helps to retain color longer than when I used shampoo. Even sulfate free shampoos stripped color and dried out my hair.

_________________Again, you are all brilliant and sexy. And I am lavender-laden and secure in my masculinity. - Sir Brancis Facon

I use sulfate free shampoo, and alternate between regular conditioner, deep conditioners, and a homemade color depositing conditioner gets added into the shuffle two or three times a week. My hair is usually pretty short, plus it's stick straight and fine-medium in texture, so I'm afraid co-washing would end up weighing it down, plus I'm not sure co-washing would remove the freakish amount of product I always use, because I'm a total product junkie. I think co-washing is brilliant though, I have a curly haired friend who is prone to frizz and hates her hair and I keep insisting she try co-washing.

_________________In addition to BB creams, we now have CC creams and even DD creams. Where's my ZZ cream? I need help growing a sweet beard.-amandabear

I have wavy hair that is dry and gets frizzy if I don't moisturize the heck out of it. Using conditioner most of the time with the occasional shampoo (once or twice a month) has turned my hair from a brillo pad to something that actually resembles hair.

_________________Again, you are all brilliant and sexy. And I am lavender-laden and secure in my masculinity. - Sir Brancis Facon

So someone needs to help me out! Since my go to is Mitchum I need a new anti-per sprint/deodorant. I am allergic to a lot of stuff, from rock deodorant to the $18 bottle of Weleda I bought. I need it to work with wearing black shirts, 100+ days of heat, shaved pits and sensitive skin.

Joined: Tue Nov 30, 2010 8:03 pmPosts: 6308Location: The State Of No R's

Ban works for me. So does Herban Cowboy.

_________________"...anarchists only want to burn cars and punch cops."- nickvicious"We'll be eating our own words 30 years from now when we're demanding our legislators outlaw aerosol-based cyber dildo-wielding death holograms."- Brian

Yes, although if you want something more definitive or more suggestions there's also this thread on deodorant, as well as this and this (primarily about aluminum-free deodorant) and this.

_________________"...anarchists only want to burn cars and punch cops."- nickvicious"We'll be eating our own words 30 years from now when we're demanding our legislators outlaw aerosol-based cyber dildo-wielding death holograms."- Brian

Joined: Tue Nov 30, 2010 8:03 pmPosts: 6308Location: The State Of No R's

missmuffcake wrote:

I have a list to go try now! Most of the natural non-alum ones make me break out in a red ouchy rash.

Yeah, I've never had any luck with any of the vegan or natural deos until I tried Herban Cowboy. I use Ban now because it's so cheap and accessible and it works great for me.

_________________"...anarchists only want to burn cars and punch cops."- nickvicious"We'll be eating our own words 30 years from now when we're demanding our legislators outlaw aerosol-based cyber dildo-wielding death holograms."- Brian

This sucks. I'm allergic to ban. Mitchum is the only one. I work outside in +100 temps. And I can not stink. I've tried everything listed here and then some, so I'm extremely lost by this.

You know, you can only do the best you can. I'm not sure if this means that Mitchum is questionable, only that their parent company is. If you're completely opposed to buying anything from anyone with a shady parent company, well, I actually don't have a solution there (but have you tried the new Tom's anti-perspirant? It's still an aluminum one. (eta: D'oh! Forgot. Parent company issues there too). Or LaVanila? Natural and not anti-persp. but it works well). Otherwise I wouldn't beat yourself up about using Mitchum. That's just my personal opinion; I'm mostly concerned with whether or not the actual product I'm using is vegan and not tested. Beyond that, I just do my best to support good companies.

Yeah, I still buy Tom's toothpaste, and I think I'll have to go the same direction with Mitchum. It's the only deodorant that works well for me. Unlike the premium products from Aveda that I chose specifically for the non-animal testing, these I choose as much for convenience and cost as testing policies. I'm also actively looking for another job, and I may have to end up moving to a less vegan-friendly place. I have a bunch stockpiled from sales, fortunately, so I don't have to make a final decision for another year or so.

_________________No. No. fork life allatimes. - mumblesThat commercial didn't make me want to go out and buy Dove, but this thread did make me sniff my armpits. They smell like apricot. - designedtobekind

You know, you can only do the best you can. I'm not sure if this means that Mitchum is questionable, only that their parent company is. If you're completely opposed to buying anything from anyone with a shady parent company, well, I actually don't have a solution there (but have you tried the new Tom's anti-perspirant? It's still an aluminum one. Or LaVanila? Natural and not anti-persp. but it works well). Otherwise I wouldn't beat yourself up about using Mitchum. That's just my personal opinion; I'm mostly concerned with whether or not the actual product I'm using is vegan. Beyond that, I just do my best to support good companies.

You bring up a good point about parent companies. There are very few all vegan companies, and some of us may be buying products from companies owned by a large corporation that may be kind of shady. For instance, Avalon Organics and Jason Natural Cosmetics are owned by Hain, which in turn has ties to Heinz.

This chart has been posted before, but some folks here may not have seen it. It's mostly food related but is a good example of how a few large corporations own many smaller natural & organic companies.

I'm not sure why everyone is jumping to the conclusion that we should boycott Revlon. PITA has simply raised the question about whether Revlon might be doing some testing on animals, and has asked consumers to demand a response from Revlon. Have you all sent a letter? If you boycott and don't write a letter, this will likely never get cleared up. Revlon was one of the first cosmetic brands to end animal testing years ago--it sure would be a shame to boycott them over a misunderstanding. http://www.nytimes.com/1989/08/02/busin ... tests.html

I'm not sure why everyone is jumping to the conclusion that we should boycott Revlon. PITA has simply raised the question about whether Revlon might be doing some testing on animals, and has asked consumers to demand a response from Revlon. Have you all sent a letter? If you boycott and don't write a letter, this will likely never get cleared up. Revlon was one of the first cosmetic brands to end animal testing years ago--it sure would be a shame to boycott them over a misunderstanding. http://www.nytimes.com/1989/08/02/busin ... tests.html

I agree with you about writing a letter, which is why I included the link along with my post. The thing is though that Revlon is selling in China and has been, I've read press releases from them that talk about their profits in China rising and their market-share there growing. I'm a bit of a freaky loyalist to Revlon brands, so as soon as the news about EL Brands and UD broke I've been googling "Revlon + China" on the regular. If A is Revlon sells in China, and B is China requires animal testing for cosmetics entering their market, and C is Revlon is testing on animals in China, then it's not unreasonable to err on the side of caution until we hear otherwise that A+B=C.

I hate this a lot, not just because this means giving up my favorite deodorant, one of the only foundations that doesn't break me out, one of my favorite discount nail care brands, and these new balm lip stain things that appeared to be vegan when I read the ingredients. Oh, and my favorite tweezers of all time. I also hate it because Revlon, like Avon and EL brands was one of the first to cease animal testing, and now they don't care.

The only possibility I see that Revlon is selling in China but not testing is this, some of the articles and blog posts I've read seem to indicate that the law requiring animal testing in China is a recent development. If this is true, and if Revlon had a foothold in the country before the law went into effect, maybe they would have been grandfathered in as a Chinese company, not an importer. Because it also seems that it's only cosmetics entering their country from foreign companies that must be tested, but again, that's just what I'm getting from reading blogs and articles, never things I've seen stated flat out.

_________________In addition to BB creams, we now have CC creams and even DD creams. Where's my ZZ cream? I need help growing a sweet beard.-amandabear