Legitimate protesters could be charged as terrorists under new legislation unless changes are made, the NZ Law Society says.

New Zealand’s history of protest at sea, including against the visit of US nuclear vessels during the 1970s and 1980s, was cited during submissions on the law change today.

Parliament is considering legislation that will bring New Zealand up to date with current international rules about maritime security.

It will create new offences related to maritime terrorism and maritime boarding.

But there are concerns that the law change could be used to stifle protest at sea because the definition of what is terrorism is too broad.

Jonathan Orpin of the NZ Law Society appeared before Parliament’s Foreign Affairs, Defence and Trade committee today and argued for the terrorism definition to be tightened.

The current definition is to carry out or to threaten acts with the purpose of intimidating a population or to compel a government or organisation.

Orpin submitted that should be changed to match the terrorism definition in other legislation – including an intention to induce terror in a civilian population, or to unduly compel or force a government or organisation.

The Law Society also wants the legislation to state that the fact a person engages in any protest, advocacy or dissent is not, by itself, sufficient to infer terrorism.

The speed with which the National Party have conned the sleepy hobbits of muddle Nu Zilind to just hand over their civil rights is truly astonishing. The hilarious thing is that if it had been a Left wing Government who legalised mass surveillance and all these extraordinary police powers, people would be screaming to high heaven, but John Key gives Nu Zilind a wee smile and a wave and they all fall over themselves to allow him to abuse power.

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There is hope though. Contrary to what Andrea Vance said at the weekend, New Zealand First is a growing force to be reckoned with. Winston is as full of energy as he has ever been.

His Deputy Leader Ron Mark gave the delegates a rev up on Sunday morning prior to Winston’s speech and got a standing ovation.

But it is more than just oratory. Tracey Martin outlined a comprehensively researched tertiary education policy. People like Fletcher Tabuteau do good work around the derailing of the Trans Pacific Partnership Agreement. The Caucus of N.Z.F. is disciplined compared to the other parties.

As an N.Z.F. member I cannot wait for 2017. Because as Winston said: “It’s time”.

Winston is not perfect, and nor is New Zealand First. Both have made mistakes in the past.

New Zealand First voted against the Crown Minerals (Crown Land and Permitting)Act, 2013 which sought to significantly toughen the sentences for protest on the high seas. It followed an attempt to send said legislation through Parliament under urgency, prompting Amnesty International, Greenpeace and others to protest (including one Sir Geoffrey Palmer). It went through 61-60.

After that I complained to the Human Rights Commission about the legislation. They found that it on the surface did indeed break my/our right to protest at sea. I pointed this out to Simon Bridges, the then Minister and he said he was justified.

So, if this is an extension of that, it is illegal as far as I can tell. Maybe though it is time to send this to the Attorney General or the Governor General (my guess the latter)and say that it is illegal (I have proof).

Because Winston even if Winston goes with the right, which we hope he will never do, he has ethics, standards and balls, and as part of the governing party will not side with the corrupt right when they try to get dirty issues like this through. He will have the power to block this government and prevent them running riot as they are now doing.

Robert, I believe NZF has some very good policies and a great team to implement them. A strong varied age group, they are very much pro NZ and seem to be fighting fit and keen.

However that said, I have a feeling if the offers were good enough and suited him, Winston would go with National. It’s only this distrust of which way Winston would take NZF, that is preventing me voting for the party. I’m sure many others feel the same … a vote for NZF could well be a vote for another three years of Key and National, which personally I think will break NZ completely.

Why is it so hard for Winston to indicate which way he will go prior to the election? Left, centre or right Winston? Come on tell us your preference please! We deserve to know where a NZF vote will take the country!

…but unlike you I don’t think Winston Peters will go with jonkey Nactional

… If you get the chance watch the documentary on Helen Clark….it gives the reasons why NZF once did go with National and the reasons for pulling that government down because of further sales of State Assets against the bottom line of NZF( with disastrous consequences for NZF and Peters, which almost wiped him and his Party out)

…Peters could not form a viable government with Helen Clark /Labour because they didnt have the numbers without Jim Anderton and he wasnt giving support .

Peters was faced with the choice of being responsible for calling another Election immediately after an Election had been fought ( a most unpopular move which could have backfired on NZF)

…or going with National under Bolger with NZF’s bottom lines and deals .

When Bolger was rolled and Shipley took over National violated the NZF agreement so he walked away and took the National Government down ( no one hates Peters more than the right wing Nacts!)

thats my reading of it…and I don’t think Peters will form any coalition with Nact again…he admitted it was a terrible mistake ( this is despite his stance of not deal making until after an Election).

I hope you are right in your summation of Winston, because as I said before, NZF seems to have a very sharp, focused team, with good workable policies, which I feel would be an asset to NZ. I would hate to see all that talent wasted in a coalition with National.

Judging by what I’m reading and hearing through comments and opinions in general, more Kiwis such as yourself, seem to be considering NZF as a viable option to what’s available at present. Many of whom hate National. Interesting.

I sincerely hope I am not wrong about him…and I don’t think I am wrong…because NZF will probably get my Party vote this time ( or the Greens, who will get my local vote) I also know of staunch Labour voters who are impressed with Peters and NZF

Labour’s demise. Honestly Frank, Labour is in trouble. If it cannot get its act together in the next twelve months, New Zealand First might find – intentionally or otherwise – itself as the mainstream alternative to Labour, because the Greens are too far left.

You will not dissent. You will not protest. You will obey. You will keep your collective heads down and carry on shoveling the shit we feed you. We are all-knowing and all-seeing. We have your best interests at heart. Trust us. Now, get back to work, citizen!

All the government needs to do now is find a couple of buildings that are full of asbestos, which need to be completely refurbished at great expense or demolished (cheaper option), and which are tall enough to fly remote-control planes into……

I just came across this, and found it disturbingly descriptive of modern NZ.

‘We live in two Americas. One America, now the minority, functions in a print-based, literate world. It can cope with complexity and has the intellectual tools to separate illusion from truth. The other America, which constitutes the majority, exists in a non-reality-based belief system. This America, dependent on skillfully manipulated images for information, has severed itself from the literate, print-based culture. It cannot differentiate between lies and truth. It is informed by simplistic, childish narratives and clichés……

Political leaders in our post-literate society no longer need to be competent, sincere or honest. They only need to appear to have these qualities. Most of all they need a story, a narrative. The reality of the narrative is irrelevant. It can be completely at odds with the facts. The consistency and emotional appeal of the story are paramount. The most essential skill in political theater and the consumer culture is artifice. Those who are best at artifice succeed. Those who have not mastered the art of artifice fail. In an age of images and entertainment, in an age of instant emotional gratification, we do not seek or want honesty. We ask to be indulged and entertained by clichés, stereotypes and mythic narratives that tell us we can be whomever we want to be, that we live in the greatest country on Earth, that we are endowed with superior moral and physical qualities and that our glorious future is preordained, either because of our attributes as Americans or because we are blessed by God or both.’

The government of New Zealand (by some casually and commonly referred to as “Niu Zilliland”) has passed a new law, making unreasonable lingering and loitering in the public a suspected terrorist offence.

Any person seen standing, sitting or lying in a public place, while not being engaged in any “useful”, orderly and permitted activities, such as “work”, as being in transit between work and home – or a place of study, must be suspected of misconduct, including potentially terrorist behaviour, and may thus be charged for such an offence – when suspected of such activity by an enforcement officer.

Any person who does not meet the above legal, permitted activity status, and who is not suffering a natural accident or health incident (e.g. being hit by a vehicle, or suffering a heart attack), and who lingers or loiters in a public place for more than five minutes, is deemed to be there illegally, and may be suspected of being preparing or otherwise engaged in unlawful activities, including potential terrorist behaviour. He or she may be charged for being illegally in a public place if no acceptable reason is given in a convincing manner to an enforcement officer.

Any person who assembles with more than two other persons in any public place, for a time extending five minutes, can be considered planning an illegal group activity, and may therefore be approached by an enforcement officer to give a reasonable explanation for his or her presence with the other persons. It the enforcement officer feels they have no reason to be assembled as such, he may order them to disperse forthwith, and if they so refuse, they may be arrested for being assembled for illegal purposes.

The Rightful Government of The Orderly State of New Zealand, headed by Our Beloved Prime Minister – John the Eternally Enlightened Key, serving his sixth term in Office, will have the law sent to the Governor General for his Assent in the coming days.

Actually WW2 was not about fighting fascists but was about preventing Germany, Italy and Japan establishing large empires via military conquest.

If the ‘free world’ had been at all interested in fighting fascism WW2 would have commenced by 1934 at the latest. In practice, Britain, France and America allowed Italy to occupy Ethiopia, and allowed Germany to reoccupy much of the land confiscated at the end of WW1, allowed Germany to march into Austria, allowed Germany to march into Czechoslovakia and allowed Japan to march into China…..and did next to nothing.

By Mussolini’s definition -the melding of government, military and corporate interests- Britain and the USA were fascist states. What distinguished them from Germany, Italy and Japan (Italy and Japan being on the same side as Britain and America in WW1) was that Britain and America already had global empires.

So really, WW2 was primarily about which fascist states would rule the world (though the USSR ended up doing most of the actual fighting).

Note that there was an attempted fascist coup in America in the mid-1930s and the Roosevelt was unable to deal with American fascists effectively because they threatened to take him down and the American economy down completely if Roosevelt acted against them; hence G W Bush’s grandfather, Prescott Bush, was able to continue financing the Nazis through the early part of WW2 and numerous American corporations were able to trade with Nazi Germany right through the war.

Note also that fascists in Britain (including the royal family) and France secretly hope that Germany would take down the USSR (the real enemy of the ‘elites’).

Meanwhile, early on in the war, the USSR secretly hoped that Britain, France and Germany would annihilate each other.

British and American [covertly fascist] forces had to fight overtly fascist French forces (under Vichy control) in Algeria and sink the fascist French navy before taking on Italian fascists (the only proper fascists) and German fascists in Tunisia and Libya.

Britain was extremely worried that the fascists in Spain would join in on the side of the German and Italian fascists, but the Spanish had only recently stopped fighting amongst themselves -the fascists having won with the help of fascist Germany and Italy.

Following the invasion of Italy the Italian fascists decided they to switch sides and fight alongside the British and American fascists.

Of course the fascists in Switzerland made a fortune out it all.

Following the crushing of the revolutionary movements of the late 1960s America has become increasingly fascistic, and following the crushing of ‘the left’ in the 1980s and 1990s NZ has become increasingly fascistic. In fact by Mussolini’s definition, NZ is a fascist state. It just doesn’t have the equivalent of secret police empowered to conduct arbitrary arrests yet.

I always thought WWI and WWII (and disgusting wars between and since) were about money, control, depopulation and turning the secret US government into the controllers for world domination. Written in stone on Georgia Guidestones.

They are now rushing through all draconian rules to control us all like lab rats, it’s all about placing mass power over the entire population in preparation for being taken over by corporates when they ram through TPPA rules even if it does not pass this or next year.

We live in unprecedented times of absolute power by the rich over all our communities now.

When you think that the Native American people and so many other groups around the globe have had decades and century’s of having to have to literally fight in so many forms for their very peoples , children’s and cultures future survival… I think we could learn a few lessons from their experiences as we move into a new, electronic and dangerous era that is so easily manipulated when falling into the wrong political hands…

Try and see the correlation between historic opposition to irresponsible state and corporate might , and what is happening ,what history is repeating again and again, and draw courage from those that have had to do more than most of us in opposing it.

It is no different from seeing little children suffering the effects of chlorine gas attacks in the middle east right now as we speak. Little children who have done nothing to warrant their innocent little lives being violated by sadistic men intent on their psychopathic perversions.

And this weak man Key,… being nothing more than a political Uncle Tom, a puppet,…

An instrument , a tool ,…of that same psychopathic class of people who feel it is OK to rob , steal, rape and murder to achieve their ends.

Oppose it. And please , as we broaden our horizons offshore, remember those that have gone before us, and yet even now after a century still find they have to fight . It is not a new thing. And we are not alone here in New Zealand.

And the reason is… to draw attention to the plight of those people who had to endure theft , murder, rape , cultural genocide well over a century before we had to deal with psychopathic leaders like Key ,… the Uncle Tom of modern NZ politics.

And also to those people who had to fight in various forms so many times against an irresponsible, deadly , racist political and corporate system on their own doorsteps.. the Native Americans, the Canadian First Nations …

They had to deal so many times with the arrogance of the Manifold Destiny theory ,… it now rivals what we see in the middle east with the chlorine bombings of little innocent children recently… Take heart that all these people groups have survived , have provided us with lessons , and that we are not alone or powerless here in New Zealand.

And when viewing these peoples from other lands and what they have had to deal with… a poor leader like Key does not seem so insurmountable after all. He is only a puppet, after all…

Not sure about the gas attacks on children, though. Much of what is presented by the mainstream media is propaganda founded on fabrications and actual manipulation of images via computers; sometimes scenes are staged, with actors performing roles of victims and rescuers.

The BBC has been caught out several times, most notably when the Syrian government was accused of using chemical weapons on its own citizens -a complete fabrication, with a piece of BBC film from a completely unrelated incident six months earlier being dubbed with different dialogue. And of course, on 9/11, when the BBC correspondent talked about a building having collapsed when it was clearly in the background and still standing….that one was a total cock-up and got aired about an hour too early.

Let’s not forget the story about ‘Iraqi soldiers turning off incubators and tossing babies onto the floor’ delivered by a supposed nurse who turned out to be the daughter of a high-ranking Kuwait official (US ambassador, from memory). And Tony B Liar’s claim that ‘Iraq had been sourcing uranium from Africa and had weapons of mass destruction ready to launch.’

Not forgetting John Howard’s preposterous claim that ‘boat people tossed children to sharks’.

Any nonsense will do if it creates the required response amongst the masses and furthers the agenda of the controllers.

Hi Chooky … I think the Maori Party will do as it is told to do by Key and his Chief of Propaganda and Misinformation, Steven “Lord Haw Haw” Goebbels-Joyce!

The sell out Maori Party is under strict instruction to toe the line and will do everything possible to continue receiving the goodies from the sordid cesspit table of corruption, filth and treason! Like its master National, the Maori Party has no conscience or morality!

I guessed National’s legislation to come down heavy handed on whistleblowers through increased security operations on Kiwis, would eventually lead to including dissenters and protesters.

And let’s not forget Key has invited the US navy to visit at the end of this year, so new maritime legislation changes will no doubt be put in place (under urgency of course) and enforced, “for the good of the nation!”

Not the NZ I like, nor want for my grandchildren. So I will still be out there protesting against anything I feel will be detrimental or threatening towards my country! It’s my civil duty to do so.

It is heartening to see the replies on this page and knowing that many people do not close their eyes to what is happening to what was once a beautiful country filled with people who could hold their heads up in pride. Our predecessors would be aghast to see a lawless, fascist government running New Zealand into the ground, while an apathetic, greedy, dob someone in society sits back and lets the caring humanitarians among us fight for our everybody’s freedom and rights. The real terrorists in the country are the right wing government led by a dictator who we had the generosity to house and support when fleeing for his life from Nazi led Germany. If we had only behaved like this fascist dictator then and refused them entry, we would not be facing this issue now.

It is very disturbing to see the Nats trying to take away the freedom of kiwis by sanctioning spying on them – it is also very disturbing in the US to have Hillary Clinton declaring that the independent news site Breitbart does not have the right to exist and that she will shut their whole service down once she becomes President – doesn’t sound very home of the free or democratic does it! – giving away control of the internet to the UN on the First of October, courtesy of Barack Obama is also very very disturbing. The Republicans are fighting to stop this – this could affect everyone in the world who wants to start a business and who needs a website and domain name – where does Obama get off, giving control of the internet to the UN of all places, without consulting the people, it is an American asset he is giving away – do we really want places like China to be able to control what we see and when and if we can see it – that’s how they roll in China, I like Western freedom thanks! Everyone whether right or left wing should be up in arms about this! Free speech and freedom of the internet are of paramount importance to our Western World! I am dead against what Clinton and Obama are up to, and I am usually in agreement with left wing views. This is scary stuff!

Maybe the tide is finally turning with respect to 9/11. High-profile American commentator Paul Craig Roberts insists that it is.

‘In a few days it will be the 15th anniversary of the alleged al Qaeda attack on the World Trade Center and Pentagon, and we are witnessing the fading protection that the charge of “conspiracy theorist” provides for the officlal government story. Indeed, the official 9/11 story is collapsing before our eyes.

Europhysics, the respected publicaton of the European physics community has pubished an article by scientists who conclude that “the evidence points overwhelmingly to the conclusion that all three [World Trade Center] buildings were destroyed by controlled demolition.” Few American scientists can admit this, because their careers depend on US government and military/security complex research contracts. Independent scientists in the US are a vanishing breed, an endangered species.

The scientists say that in view of their findings, “it is morally imperative” that 9/11 “be the subject of a truly scientific and impartial investigation by responsible authorities.”

So-called democratic nations are on the path that leads to civil war as governments continue to protect corporations’ rights to destroy in preference to protecting citizens’ rights to preserve. In other words, confirming what we have known for a long time, if you’re not a member of ‘the club’ you have no rights.

North Dakota Governor Activates National Guard Against Pipeline Protest

Yeah, yeah, yeah. But what are we going to do about it?
What.Are.We.Going.To.Do.About.It. ?
The above question should, by now, be THE question.

Analogy alert.

While I’m no carpenter…

There can be many hours, weeks, months, years even, planning the build of a house. There can be much discussion, arguing, refining the budget etc and when that’s all thrashed out the actual, physical building can begin.

But does it?

The shovels are leaning, the picks are shining, the cement’s right here, the gravel’s over there. There are stacks of timber and roofing iron too but there’s something wrong??

The builders are stalled.

They just stand there looking dumbfounded.
When pressed for a reason, they start discussing, planning then begin arguing about refining the budget etc.

We all know what the problems are. Even the looney Right Wing linear thinkers can see what the problem is. ( They’re just keen to take advantage of it and fuck everyone else mate. )

The trouble is we have no governance. We have no leadership. We have no mast head for a democracy. No one. Not one single person sits in Parliament today that does truly have yours and mine’s interests at heart and is prepared to do the job WE PAY THEM TO DO.

So, why the fuck are they still there, collecting our money, wasting our time, ruining our youth, selling out our assets, sending some of us into the grave and others to live in cars with their kids.

Why do we just yak on and do nothing?

What are we going to do about that?

If the builders finally get around to picking up a pick to find a spot to dig they’d best start with the foundations or, frankly, the house is going to look funny.

The foundations must be built first.

To bring about change in NZ / Aotearoa’s crippled democracy means the rise of the masses to lay siege to their parliament to rid themselves of the lice and fleas that’s killing them.

Who said? The greatest weapon known to human kind is humans. Lots of them.

Constantly Blah, Blahing is extremely dangerous for Us and extremely fortunate for Them.

Lets forget what they’re up to and focus on how to get rid of them.
And please, for Gods sake. Do not mention winston fucking peters.
( I can’t believe how many people still fall for the bullshit that drops out of that old con man. After all this time. After all his posturing and blathering? Nothing. Not one single thing’s changed for the better. )

Here’s the thing.

If we don’t act and act immediately we’ll become Palestinians in our own country. We’ll be living in the foot hills and under bridges while our New Masters drive their Ferraris along our highways.

Many of us have tried over the past couple of decades. All have failed, not because of lack of leadership or lack of knowledge but because of the lack of response of ‘the masses’, the failure of ‘the masses’ to get off their arses and do something. It’s always ‘the red pill versus the blue pill’. The general populace is fed blue pills every day and dutifully ingests them. The famous ‘Network’ rant had exactly that theme.

We know the basic cause of apathy: the masses are not suffering. Despite there being pockets of poverty, most of NZ has access to cheap consumer goods, cheap food and mindless entertainment.

Many of NZers are very comfortable. And very ignorant. And very comfortable with being very ignorant. They want to be socially acceptable, so they conform to social norms. Social norms require there be no discussion of anything significant of unpleasant: global warming -a myth, the Earth is too big for humans to affect it; peak oil -the oil companies have found huge amounts of oil and are just waiting for the price to rise; economic hard times -just the business cycle, it will all come right soon………

The media reinforce the phony narratives of the government and generate phony narratives of their own, interspersed with plenty mindless of trivia. I’m telling not saying new or anything you don’t already know, just reminding you.

So, what would you like to talk about today? How lucky we are to have Joh Key in charge? How much you should get if you sell your house? The features of the latest model of personal transport? Where to go for your next overseas holiday? Which celebrity marriage might be on the rocks? What film stars wore (or didn’t wear) at award ceremonies? Whether dogs can ride surfboards better that cats can? The results of the last game? What might happen in the next game?

99%, literally 99% of what goes on in NZ society is at that level. Maybe more than 99%.

“And please, for Gods sake. Do not mention winston fucking peters.
( I can’t believe how many people still fall for the bullshit that drops out of that old con man. After all this time. After all his posturing and blathering? Nothing. Not one single thing’s changed for the better. )”

Up till now Winston has had no clout,
If he can beat Labour and Greens at the polls he becomes PM.

You call for action but nobody is going to mass in the streets unless somebody
leads them.
Seems like you(and others)have formed your opinion through the MSM.
This is their tool of deceit and propaganda. It is understandable that people
form their opinions through this medium. They have have nothing else.
It’s called INDOCTRINATION.

The world (and an increasing number of NZ’s) have woken up.
Only 6% of Americans now trust their media.
The only place we can go now is the Alt media Hillary has usefully identified.
A huge mistake in desperation. Now 100,000’s more are flocking to those sites.

TPTB are now moving fast to shut down these sites to keep you/us in their
bubble of control so maybe we have not much time left to educate ourselves.

You can start by reading Curwen Rolnison’s analysis. Excellent work.
You can educate yourself about Trump. It is a movement to try to take back control of our Gvt’s from the Globalists. You are not going to learn anything
through the MSM.

At least two major dumps that will help you on your way.
And beware of whats called CONFORMATION BIAS that’s in the last link of
the second major post.
ie; We all tend to believe what we think is true from our opinions formed by
MSM. This especially true of major news such as a terror attack,formed in the
first few days of the event.
Then,with time,if that narrative is proved to be incorrect with new information
available, we tend/or won’t believe it.

As citizens we have only the ballot box to try to change things.
Most do not have the money for any form of lengthy litigation in the courts.
(good luck with that anyway)

I believe we are seeing a change in Winston’s rhetoric.
He will be fully aware of what is happening oversees.

And I put it to you that there is NO ONE else that will take up the mantle of
Nationalism and Sovereignty.
This is why he is getting attacked from the get go. Same as Trump before he
even gained the nomination in the primaries. Historic precedent.

Why? Because they know want he represents.
An end of the looting,corruption,dumbing down of our children and attack on all
of our health.

The RIGGING OF THE GAME right across the spectrum!!

It’s out there,all in the public domain. IT’S ADMITTED.!!
Just our MSM choose not to inform us. These journalist’s are complicit.
They are traitors just the same as the people in authority who know and don’t
do anything about it.

People say to me why are you looking at America. Because they are on the
Front Line.

So when does protest become criminal? Or do the crazies in this group believe everything is fair game?

My thoughts:

When criminal damage occurs
When people are prevented from going about their normal activities
When there is financial loss
When people are hurt

But when you’re dealing with maritime law and the movement of military vessels, then you’re in very deep water (pun intended). If you prevent the movement of the military vessel at sea or force it to change course, then it’s clearly an act of terrorism.

Andrew you forgot to add a few things here:
When I have to step around someone on the footpath.
When someone reminds me what a greedy, selfish pillock I actually am.
When someone confronts me with inconvenient truths.
It takes a true terrorist to do all these things doesn’t it Andrew?

Consider the size difference between a protestor in a small boat and a warship. Quite a difference eh?
When you stop to think how people will put themselves in danger because they believe in their cause it is a sobering thought.
Of course Andrew that would never occur to you. You can’t get past the fact that they are defying AUTHORITY! and that’s something you would never do because you don’t have the guts to do it.
Terrorists put other people’s lives at risk.
Protestors put their own lives at risk.
There is a huge difference, but you would never understand it.