The name tag for Julie Bishop during a Senate inquiry into Bishop and Christopher Pyne’s appointments after they left politics.
Photograph: Lukas Coch/AAP

Julie Bishop and Christopher Pyne possess the thespian’s talent for finding their light, and drawing the cameras, so presumably it served the interests of both the government and their current employers that the two former ministers gave their evidence to a Senate committee by teleconference, rather than sweep back into their old stamping grounds, being assertively present.

The two were required to give evidence on Thursday to an inquiry triggered by the controversy over their private-sector appointments post-politics in fields overlapping directly with their portfolio experience. At issue is how these appointments fit with the ministerial standards, which prevent former ministers becoming lobbyists or door openers on “any matters on which they have had official dealings” in the past 18 months. The standards also say that ministers should not use information they have obtained in office for private gain.

Bishop, in typical fashion, wasn’t intending to humour anyone, particularly not the One Nation senator Malcolm Roberts. When he inquired about her remuneration from Palladium, she belted him to the boundary.

“Senator, one of the joys of working in the private sector is that such information is private and commercial in confidence,” the former foreign minister said. “Perhaps, for context, I can assure you it is significantly less than the salary of a senator.”

There was also a tight pivot when the Labor senator Jenny McAllister pressed Bishop on her impolitic (but entirely accurate) characterisation of the ministerial standards as “voluntary guidelines”.

Early in her evidence Bishop told the committee that while she intended to abide fully by the strictures of the code, senators would all be aware “the standards are voluntary guidelines, they are not legislated and thus do not carry the force of law”.

McAllister was curious. Can you point me to a reference the standards are voluntary, she inquired? “I’m referring to the fact they are not legislated,” Bishop said, crisp.

McAllister persisted. She wondered whether Scott Morrison had ever communicated to Bishop that he considered the statement of ministerial standards to be voluntary? “I’ve not had that discussion with him at any time that I recall,” the former foreign minister said.

Did Malcolm Turnbull communicate that view to her when he was prime minister, that it was all voluntary? “Well,” Bishop said, ready to land her blow by referencing the hundred year war, “when Mr Turnbull was prime minister, I was not planning to retire from cabinet”.

Pyne steered well clear of the hundred year war, but was similarly coy about his remuneration from EY. He could assure the good people of the finance and public administration references committee that the compensation was “not an outrageous sum” – outrage being very much in the eye of the beholder on Thursday afternoon in a Senate committee room.

“It’s also immaterial to the ministerial code of conduct whether EY is paying me $1 or $100,” Pyne said. “That doesn’t change the two limbs of the ministerial code of conduct and my compliance with them.”

Asked to explain his value to a firm like EY, Pyne characterised himself as an interpreter. He could interpret government policy for people in the private sector, and bring his “instinctive understanding of how government thinks and how political parties work” developed over 26 years in public life.

This was presented by Pyne through a distancing lens, as if he was somehow removed from the processes he was now interpreting; as if his deep and helpful knowledge had been acquired at a distance, like an academic labouring abstractly in an obscure field occasionally called upon to provide expert commentary on Radio National.

Rather than being a participant, deeply involved in the policy discussions he was now interpreting for a commercial business, Pyne in his own telling became an anthropologist, narrating the obscure habits of a sub-culture for the edification of students gathered, hushed, in a lecture hall, or for viewers in a David Attenborough-style nature documentary. “Here they are now.” [Pause.] “Emerging from their burrows at the defence headquarters …”

Julie Bishop says onus should be on serving MPs not to meet with retired ministers

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Bishop, who told the committee she was appearing on Thursday as “a former cabinet minister”, made a concrete suggestion about how the ministerial standards could be strengthened. Serving MPs and officials could be held responsible for not meeting with former ministers, because there was an obvious way to enforce that – through the accountability mechanisms of the parliament.

Pyne, who informed the committee he was appearing as “a private citizen” had no particular thoughts on improvements. Asked by the Greens senator Larissa Waters whether he thought the ministerial standards were too weak, he replied: “No.”

Asked whether the code needed to be independently enforced, Pyne was again brief. “No.” He told the committee he hadn’t seen any evidence of the code being breached.

Pyne was asked whether it was appropriate to meet with EY while he was still defence minister to discuss a role post-politics, as he did, on 8 April. Did he consider whether or not this was a breach of the standards before taking the meeting?

“Having a meeting with EY about a future job doesn’t breach the ministerial standards because I wouldn’t have been needing to divulge any information to them that isn’t publicly available and I wasn’t lobbying or advocating or having business meetings,” Pyne said, calmly, checking off his checklist.

“I would simply say, Senator Waters, that every Australian is entitled to look for a new job.”