I think Otis Taylor was the best we ever had, but Bowe is definately the best we've had in a while!

DB is not, Kennision, was so far. imo

01-20-2012, 01:19 AM

chief31

I like Kennison. But Bowe is surpassing him, and doing it with an offense that tries to avoid passing the ball.

Yes, he makes some mistakes. A little more often than average, even. But he is absolutely a #1 WR in my opinion.

We have not had a WR near his ability since.... Well, longer than I have been a Chiefs fan.

01-23-2012, 02:24 PM

Jrudi

I've thought about this a little bit...

and it is tough to actually rank a top 15 or 20 at a single position, because of multiple factors, some guys are better than others in different categories, so I figured I would set up some groups or tiers....

I think we could all agree on the 1st tier...These guys are considered ELITE TOP LEVEL TALENT and GAME CHANGERS week in and week out. They are the focus of opposing defenses game plans, and defenses feel that it is the top priority to stop these players to beat the team. These players would be respected the same no matter what team they are on.

Tier 1:
Calvin Johnson, Andre Johnson, & Larry Fiztgerrald

The 2nd tier consists of players which I feel are below these 3 elite players, but can and would be able to go to any team, and be the unquestioned #1 WR. Opposing defenses make it a priority to adjust their game plans to make it an emphasis to defend these WR's, but it is mixed in along with stopping 1-2 other key players on the team such as a RB or QB. These players also fit the ideal "mold" in both size and speed that NFL clubs look for in a #1WR.

Tier 3 is a list of players who are good players, which rank just below the teir 2 players, but have benefited from the system they are in and QB they have throwing them the ball, and I question if their skills would transition to another team. These players may also lack in areas of the ideal size/speed teams look for in a #1WR. Opposing D's game plane against them similar to the teir 2, but If any of the above mentioned players were on the same roster, it would take the focus off of these players

(It could be argued that Bowe's drops could bring him down to this level, but I feel that Bowe would be considered the #1WR if he were on the same roster as any of these players, as well as Bowe has shown to be productive in an already run-first system, and going to a system like GB, NO, or NE could elevate his play even more)

Tier 3:
Wes Welker (Welker has been made into a superstar because of Brady, he was a pedestrian receiver in Miami, and New England would not continue to look for and Elite #1WR if they felt Welker was the guy, he is good, but his play has been elevated by Brady's excellence)

Anquan Boldin(very gifted physically, and fits the size mold, but his lack of success in the Baltimore system shows he benefited from Fitz, and Warner throwing him the ball. He could easily be rated in tier 2 if it weren't for the proof of production drop off in another system, pairing him with any of the tier 2 would be a lethal combo, and would benefit both WR's)

DeSean Jackson (There was a reason he slipped into the 2nd round, he is a burner, but that's all he's got, his attitude problems drop him down on this hierarchy)

Mike Wallace (another burner that is young, I feel he is close to moving up on this list, is streaky with his play and hasn't proven to me that he would be the unquestioned #1 WR on another team)

Steve Smith (Carolina) and Reggie Wayne (both that have been dropped recently due to age, Smith had an outstanding season, but his downfall the previous few years has shown he benefits from who is throwing him the ball, the same goes for Wayne after Manning went down)

Jordy Nelson (He's got Rogers tossing him the rock, and would not be a #1 WR on another team if the any of the above teir 2 WR's were on the same roster)

Tier 4 is a list of players that fit the same idea of tier 3, they are just below the tier 3 recievers...

Tier 3:
Vincent Jackson
(the Guy's only had 2 60+ catch seasons, and those were only 60 (this year) and 69 in 2009. Has the size, but I think the Ego's bigger than his play)

Santonio Holmes (Lacks the size, and has attitude problems)

Miles Austin (Had one good season, and that's about it)

Steve Johson (Lacks the size, but is a good WR and arrow is pointing up)

So let the debate begin... let's find 15-20 WR's in the NFL that are considered better than Bowe. Which WR's are on the wrong list?

It really came to to my attention when I went to NFL.com to look at stats... was tough to find that many that are really that good, and fit the prototypical size that franchises look for in the #1WR, and have averaged better or similar stats to Bowe since he has been in the league...

01-23-2012, 06:39 PM

chief31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jrudi

Tier 3:
Wes Welker (Welker has been made into a superstar because of Brady, he was a pedestrian receiver in Miami, and New England would not continue to look for and Elite #1WR if they felt Welker was the guy, he is good, but his play has been elevated by Brady's excellence)

I'd have Welker in the top tier.

When Brady was lost for the 2008 season, he had 111 catches, for 1,165 yards with Matt Cassel. Not to mention what he does after the catch is all about Wes Welker. And The Dolphins only started Welker in three games in 2005 & 2006. And, with only three starts, over two years, he had 96 catches and 1,121 yards.

01-23-2012, 06:47 PM

chief31

And I would also have to include Brandon Lloyd somewhere too.

I know Fig has a pretty low opinion of him. But he had 70 catches, for 996 Yards this season (Missed a game), and 1,448 yards, with 11 TDs last year.

Although, I understand how one could overlook him, as NFL.com separates his games with the two teams.

01-23-2012, 07:24 PM

figcrostic

Quote:

Originally Posted by chief31

And I would also have to include Brandon Lloyd somewhere too.

I know Fig has a pretty low opinion of him. But he had 70 catches, for 996 Yards this season (Missed a game), and 1,448 yards, with 11 TDs last year.

Although, I understand how one could overlook him, as NFL.com separates his games with the two teams.

I don't have a low opinon of him I just think Orton inflated his numbers

01-23-2012, 08:20 PM

chief31

Quote:

Originally Posted by figcrostic

I don't have a low opinon of him I just think Orton inflated his numbers

When Brady was lost for the 2008 season, he had 111 catches, for 1,165 yards with Matt Cassel. Not to mention what he does after the catch is all about Wes Welker. And The Dolphins only started Welker in three games in 2005 & 2006. And, with only three starts, over two years, he had 96 catches and 1,121 yards.

I knew someone would have said this....

Fact of the matter is, I agree with Collin Cowherd on this (which I usually don't) but seriously... When Randy Moss was there who was considered the #1WR? Moss

Why are they still trying to find another WR (Ochocinco...)

I'm not saying Welker isn't a good receiver... I'm just saying that I don't feel he would be near as productive or consistent if he didn't have Brady throwing him the ball.

And if another team signed him...They wouldn't look at him as the answer to their WR problems and focus on him being "The Man" within their WR corps. Welker "pairs well" with other Recievers, and is not a stand alone player..

And the 96 catches for 1,121 yards sounds good, for one season.... if you look at it, it's 48 catches per year with 560.5 yards per season.....

And you forgot to mention that those were actually his 3rd and 4th seasons.... He was with the chargers his rookie year, and only played in 1 game...went to the Dolphins in year 2 and was active for 14 games with NO CATCHES... 29 in 05' and 67 in 06'...Then he goes to New England and his numbers sky rocket...

Just saying..he is a product of Brady...He is a decent receiver, but wouldn't reproduce those numbers elsewhere

Quote:

Originally Posted by chief31

And I would also have to include Brandon Lloyd somewhere too.

I know Fig has a pretty low opinion of him. But he had 70 catches, for 996 Yards this season (Missed a game), and 1,448 yards, with 11 TDs last year.

Although, I understand how one could overlook him, as NFL.com separates his games with the two teams.

Brandon Lloyd should not be on this list anywhere....

Only 1 season with 1000 +yards does not get you on the list I'm sorry it just doesn't

He doesn't have the prototypical size for a #1WR, He's been in the league for 9 YEARS, and no one knew his name before last season.

I will admit he had a good season last year, and despite moving teams had an OK season this year, but I don't consider him to be elite. If he was a top 15 wide out, why does everyone have the rams Targeting Justin Blackmon in the draft?

You do realize Blackmon will be who they want their #1WR to be don't you?

Just sayin...Lloyd doesn't belong on this list...

01-24-2012, 10:36 AM

OPLookn

Quote:

Originally Posted by chief31

I'd have Welker in the top tier.

When Brady was lost for the 2008 season, he had 111 catches, for 1,165 yards with Matt Cassel. Not to mention what he does after the catch is all about Wes Welker. And The Dolphins only started Welker in three games in 2005 & 2006. And, with only three starts, over two years, he had 96 catches and 1,121 yards.

Welker played in all 16 games for Miami in 2005 and 2006. He might have only started in 3 games though. If he only played in 3 games he'd have to have 32 catches a game and while possible I don't see that as probable.