Classics: Best Bet Essentials for those making under 35K

January 4, 2013 By Joe| Heads up: Buying via our links may result in us getting a commission. Here's why.

Originally Published 2/12/12

One of the constant challenges with this website is pinpointing just what “affordable” means. It can mean drastically different things to different people. And right now, the economy isn’t helping. Young or experienced, straight out of college or long time member of the workforce, it doesn’t seem to matter. Plenty aren’t making enough to justify a $450 suit or a $300 watch. That doesn’t mean one day that won’t change, but until that happens, these suggestions should help the under $35k per year crowd maximize the style/cost ratio at a level they can afford..

Overstock.com can hold some real gems for ultra-inexpensive suiting. You have to do a bit of checking in from time to time, but you should (should) be able to land a decent, 100% wool, two-button “slim fit” suit for between $100 and $200. Tailoring will be a must, and you might have to settle on armholes or a lapel you don’t like, but they’ll certainly get the job done. Steer clear from Kenneth Cole REACTION. They’re all synthetic. Also worth keeping an eye on: the oft mentioned J. Crew Factory Thompson wool blend (80/20) suit. Seems to bottom out at $170.

Speaking of J. Crew’s lower line… Look, nice work by J. Crew over the last decade or so. But often times, their Factory goods look just as good as the real thing. Tweed blazers for $130, casual button up shirts for $30, and merino sweaters in the fall and winter for a reasonable $35. All with fits that are superior to anything you’re going to find at Kohl’s. They went online not too long ago, making them accessible even if there’s no outlet mall near you.

The Jeans: Levi’s 514 Slim Straight or Levi’s 527 Low-Rise Bootcut

Keep them dark with minimal distressing.

Unlike 501s, these go on sale and if you play your cards right you can get them for the mid to high $30s through Macy’s in-store. If you like a closer fit, stick with the 514. Unlike some other brand’s bootcuts, the 527s don’t have that noticeable of a flair at the ankle (honestly, no one who doesn’t spend too much time looking at men’s ankles won’t notice). That and they’ve got a little more room. Each holds their color and shape real well.

The best place to look for higher end stuff: Lastcall.com during an extra % off sale.

Top shelf for medium shelf.

Last Call is the outlet for Neiman Marcus. Most of us don’t do a lick of shopping at Neiman Marcus. But thanks to the online source for their outlet goods, extra 25% – 40% off already reduced to outlet-level-prices can make some top notch stuff attainable.

Simple, clean, classic, and under $100. Timex has been doing an incredible job lately, but when you head in for your meeting about maybe landing a promotion or raise, a Timex on your wrist might not do you any favors. This Bulova is pretty much a legend. Here’s the thing about it too: Don’t be afraid to wear it casually. Like super casually. Get a brown strap for it, and feel free to wear with a t-shirt and jeans. Really.

Usually can be found for around $20 when on sale or clearance. They’re not all cotton, but the fabric isn’t tissue thin like other inexpensive cotton/poly dress shirts. The thicker feel means they’re less scratchy, and the influx of poly helps it stay less wrinkled. Substantial collar, plenty of colors/patterns to pick from, and while not super fitted, they’re fitted enough to get away with under a blazer or sweater.

They seem to have every single fabric, width, color, and pattern combination ever made by man (short of singing Reindeer Christmas ties. Not that you would want one of those.) Their tie bars often show up in GQ. Ties are $15 with shipping a flat $5.95. Quality is good for the price. The selection, again, is unparalleled.

The Best T-Shirts: 50/50 cotton poly blend tees from the thrift store.

Easy to layer. At least the graphic is genuine.

Why the cotton poly blend? Because you can beat the hell out of them, wash them a million times, and they’ll still hold up. They’re as close to indestructible as it gets. And thrift store tees will usually cost only $2 – $5.

Grey is incredible versatile since it’ll play with any seasonal fabric and color. Skip a more casual rumpled chino and aim for a smoothed out cotton. The already mentioned BR option above is all but gone online, but the usual suspects GAP and INC from Macy’s both have one right now (haven’t seen them in person though, and note the unfortunate white buttons on the INC.) Wear it with dark jeans out on the town, or almost white pants once summer hits.

You’ll get a lot more style bang for your buck if you can save up for a pair of on sale DSW house brand shoes like something from Mercanti Fiorentini or Mike Konos, but if you’re budget is a max of $100, these will do. The funky toe stitching on the Johnston & Murphy is less noticeable in person. The Stafford Ashton is awesome for the price, and they make a similar, black longwing. The Steve Madden Bluto is as simple as Steve Madden gets.

Aldo’s not known for long lasting shoes. But if you don’t wear them more than once or twice a week, keep some shoe trees in there, and only bust these out when you want some more than normal ankle-down pop, then $70 is a pretty small investment. Toe shape looks to be perfect. Great color. Ship/returns free via Nordstrom.

Your slightly wider brown and black GAP belts are for jeans, chinos, and cords. GAP doesn’t seem to have changed the quality of these specific leather basic belts for years (have a pair myself going on 4 – 5 years and they’re holding up great.) Check stores like Marshall’s, TJ Maxx, and ROSS for the dress belts. Less is more here. You want an inexpensive dress belt that’s ignorable. No unnecessary risks on buckle shape, and keep the buckle darker and/or matte. Would it be nice to have a lighter belt to match, say, cognac color shoes? Yes. Is it necessary? Not right now it’s not.

Paying the cleaners to launder and press your shirts can add up fast. So much so that plenty of us would never even consider it. Doing your own laundry and getting proficient at ironing is the way to go. Keeping your shoes looking great by shining them every few weeks will go a long way. So much so that a pair of well shined shoes is akin to well fitting clothes. They look better in an almost unfair way. More on one way to shine shoes here.

Razor blades are expensive. Shaving cream isn’t free. Embrace the groomed stubble or beard look. It’s accepted in most workplaces (especially if you’re making $35k or under) and the ladies seem to like it too.

According to this, 2/3rds of American workers will grab lunch out a least once (if not more) during a work week. The men in that group spend, on average, $46 a week on lunch. A month or so of that and you could buy a new suit. Good lord. Brown bag it friends. Save that cash for dinner out with your significant other, or, updating your wardrobe.

Looking for more places to shop when on a seriously tight budget? Head here. Top photo credit: Chad Miller

Why no suggestions for scouting out clothes at discount retailers such as steinmart? I’ve gotten loads of good stuff from there and being a young entry level employee it’s been a blessing to my wardrobe.

You can live well on $35k, and I think this is an excellent writeup. I expecially agree with eating out at lunch.

When I was younger making about $30k a year in DC, I would eat out every day. I always wondered why I couldn’t live decently on that salary alone – I wound up bartending at night to live the way I wanted – and still struggled.

Flash forward, I make more money but I pack my lunch every day. I now realize how much money I was spending on food that was bad for me for lunch. Packing your lunch every day makes a huge difference. It’s a move that will help you maintain your waistline and improve your budget for things that matter.

And while I’m at it, make a budget and stick to it. When you make less, a budget means a lot more. Use a service like Mint to help keep track of funds entering and leaving your account. Expenses can get way out of whack when you don’t stay in control.

I got a Flight bag in medium last year. Never been bothered about using it as a carryon even though it’s technically oversize. The build quality of the bag is amazing. The more beat up it gets the more character the bag develops, in a good way!

Also, keep in mind that the $46/week doesn’t automatically go back in your pocket; you still have to put some money down to buy decent food to keep at your house. Obviously not $46 worth, but you get my point. It really is a big money saver over the long haul.

Mr. Joe, how is your trimmer holding up after 1+ year of use? Hasn’t battery stopped charging yet? Or something broke? Curious as I am thinking of buying a trimmer once my current trimmer and its rechargeable battery, which requires charing for hours and hours to work for about 3-5 min before dying again, goes completely dead.

The Frost River looks nice, but I bought the Blue Claw Wharton bag on Dappered promo. For a few bucks more its a heck of a bag and made in the USA. It is VERY substantial and equal quality as a Filton and use Tumi (or better) grade 1050D nylon. I am a DoD contractor and its military grade. very suitable for anyone. Not trendy.

501 and 514 are almost always $39 when not on sale. That’s still good for a nice pair of jeans. The shrink to fit are similar in price and they offer the raw denim look for those that like that. I do.

The Merona shirts are good for the price. I have a few Sid Mashburn shirts that are impeccable and my Merona is easily in the rotation weekly. Its nice to have a couple in the closet.

With shoes I would not skimp too much. I was in Orlando last week and went to DSW to try on the Mercanti Fiorentini double monk strap cap toes. They were very nice for the $. They actually fit me better than my Allen Edmonds- LE Canvas wing tip bluchers. Look great with a suit or jeans.

I am likely older than most of this crowd and I make more than $35K per year. Joe’s suggestions are very good and the advice is sound for anyone. Especially those building firm scratch and want to look better than “nice”

I actually think Land’s End Canvas has better deals on clothes than J. Crew Factory. I’ve purchased clothes from both, but Land’s End Canvas seems to have better deals more often IMO. The Warby Parker suggestion is a really good one. Stylish frames and prescription lenses for less than $100 is unheard of anywhere else.

I know this won’t be for everybody, but I walk or use my bike for most of my traveling/commuting. I save on gas and stay in shape.

Also, J.Crew Factory is a great place for casual button down shirts for smaller, slimmer guys. A lot of styles available in X-Small.
My biggest problem with a tight budget is shoes. I still can’t find affordable shoes in my size (6.5D). Almost every shoe on this website start at a more common size 8. I’m actually saving for a pair (or two…nah, make it three) of Allen Edmonds, but in the meantime, I have nothing to wear.
I have to wear a suit Thursday, I’ll be wearing it with my ugly, semi-square toed, falling appart rubber soled “dress” boots. Not the greatest look.

I picked up a grey Kenneth Cole Reaction suit last spring for $130 then spent $150 on my tailor to fit it top to bottom. It’s my wedding suit that I beat up, but it gets a ton of compliments on the reg. Probably won’t last much longer than this upcoming wedding season, but it’s a great way to buy yourself a couple of years on <$300 budget. Great tailoring gets mistaken for expensive suiting all the time.

Also, Norstrom Rack is another good place to find deals. I found a $100 Thomas Dean shirt for $34 and a Hugo Boss Black label navy sport coat with horn buttons for less than $200 on sale. Top notch for just a little more cash.

Let’s do the math. If you eat out for lunch 5 times a week for 50 work weeks at an average cost of $9 per meal, then you’re spending $2250 on lunch. That’s over 6% of your salary on $35k/year. Packing lunch should be able to cut that cost down to a third.

Not a bad lot to pick from. I got a FR flight bag two years ago that now goes with me everywhere. Like Manicman, it just gets better the more you try to beat it up. I’ve also spent the last 15 years inadvertently trying to destroy a Filson fly fishing pack with zero success. Can’t even get the seams to stretch. I would retire it but I haven’t found anything that works better or holds up as well.

Actually, I just went on a 501/505 hunt last night at retailers. Kohl’s had the worst sale I’ve ever seen in their stores: buy one get one 1/2 off, with the 501 price being $64 and the 505’s being $54. JcPenny’s…did not have any 501’s in stock, but their selection matched Kohl’s prices. Belk’s: $45 “on sale.” And Macy’s was around the same price as Kohl’s. So…what’s up with the price hike? I’m used to getting 501’s for around $35 without a sale, from Kohl’s or Belk’s. Not…$64 a pop.

And side note: Joe, this is a great article, especially for someone who will soon be in the field of teaching High School like myself. I’ll be lucky to start out at $35k here in SC.

On the glasses front, I’d note that Coastal.com offers a free pair of prescription glasses. Not all frames are available for free, but there are lots to choose from, and seem to change regularly (I saw a random Ray Ban frame in there a few weeks back). Not sure of the ship/return policies.

Steinmart is my go to for work clothes. I just started working for a judge, so the dress is pretty conservative. I can get great ties and starter suits for the cheap, especially with a nice 20% off coupon. Definitely have to bring it to the tailor for a nip and a tuck, but 20 bucks for a nice Hilifiger dress shirt no one will ever see because you ARE wearing a coat is one thing this guy won’t pass up

I have a pair of Warby Parkers. Good glasses at a great deal. I’m in NYC and they have a show room where you can try out the frames and basically bypass the whole online try-out process. You’ll still need to order them online and have your prescription information handy. Only plastic frames are available for the moment.

Battery is still doing extremely well. I hardly ever plug it in, but when it goes, it goes quick. Nice thing about this one is that you can use it while it’s plugged in. My old one you had to charge and couldn’t run off the outlet. Overall it’s holding up real well.

Great write-up for graduate students like me. I’m a 27-year-old PhD student who had never made more than $24K/year, but because I’m thrifty and very dedicated to building a nice wardrobe, I still have great and oftentimes expensive clothes, including five pairs of Allen Edmonds. I’m constantly monitoring clearance sales online and in-store; find what you want in store, know your size, and hunt that baby down online. If you buy used on sites like eBay, make sure it’s from a reputable seller who accepts returns. You can’t go wrong.

Yeah, I just got that kind of reply to me e-mail. I’m still a little nervous that they won’t accept my prescription (I need a prism in one lens and usually have to get special slim lenses because my Rx is so strong) but it’s worth a shot.

Great post. However, even on a $35K salary, NEVER skimp on shoes. I know $35K/year isn’t much, especially when you have a wife & kids, but buy quality shoes. They’ll look better & last longer…which means you’ll actually be saving money over time. Look around, be patient, and score some quality shoes on a good deal.

I’m a 501 guy through and through. But they just don’t go on sale like the 527/514, and if you’re a bigger guy, well then the 514 just ain’t gonna happen. I’ve got both the 527 and 514, and the 514 can get a little slim on me ol’ thunder thighs.

I am a poor guy, and for shoes, I can’t remember the last pair of shoes I bought anywhere other than ebay. I’ve gotten burned with bad shoes once or twice, but far more often, I’m getting AEs and Ferragamos in good shape for double-digit prices. Get used to looking for what has and has not been kept in good condition, and if there’s any doubt, don’t buy it, and you can save a bundle. It’s less likely you’ll find stuff on the rarer side like nice Jodphurs or double monks or something at a low price, but for your basic black/brown oxfords? It’s great.

Coastal is a great resource for frames, but I wouldn’t trust them getting your prescription right for the free glasses. I got some from there and ended up having my eye doctor put in new lenses because I loved the frames. The prescription they sent me was way off and I even reconfirmed what they had over the phone. Be wary and take any glasses you get from them somewhere where they can confirm your prescription.

Based on my experiences:
1. I disagree on Neiman Marcus Last Call as the place to find higher end stuffs.

Last call Neiman Marcus is not a good place to find bargains, I think Off 5th Avenue has a better price. Consistently! And occasionally TjMaxx depending on the neighbourhood.

I bought 80usd Brunello Cuchinelli blazer at Off 5th sales rack, and the exact same blazer was selling at Last call Neiman Marcus sales rack at 2300usd! I even took a picture of the blazer and the tag to show all my friends 😀 lol.
Another occasion is Donald J Pliner “Cutter 2” shoes, I saw them at online Last call Neiman Marcus at 150usd with all those discounts 60% including free shipping. I simply copy and paste the shoes name, and guess what; I found the exact same shoes selling on Amazon for 37usd! And if I compare the jeans on sales rack, off 5th consistently sells way lower than Last call NM.

Check your local TjMaxx,
recently they do carry high end stuffs like Faconnables and Vince. Beware of the Oh
my… from 200usd they become like 15 or 20usd! I grabbed all of them
available at my size! And of course the material and cutting are so different! Interesting to see that it depends on the neighbourhood. The higher or elite class the neghbourhood, the higher class stufffs TjMaxx carry! But you do have to work harder finding them in the rack compared to place like Off 5th. But its worth it when you find it. I managed to get 15usd Faconnables shirt, 25usd Faconnable pants, 15usd Faconnables belt, 50usd Roberto Cavalli scarves, 40usd cashmere wool Vince sweater!

2. I agree on Levis jeans, but disagree on where to buy it.

On Levis jeans, I recently got a pair of jeans from TjMaxx at 17usd each! TjMaxx carry 514, 501 and 511.

3. I disagree on Packing Lunch.

Lunch always has the best bargain in USA! The only time you can find under 10usd meal is during lunch time! And that’s also when your metabolism kicks! Don’t save during Lunch! Save on Dinner! Dinner is not only twice more expensive, the portion is twice as much as well! I recently did a smoothie and salad diet on all dinner, my weight drops from 155 to 138 lbs! 😉

I see all of those suits are charcoal, black, or grey. I always see navy suggested as the basic, go-to suit choice. Are there any affordable navy suits that you’ve seen? Is the charcoal just as versatile?

Thanks for this article. As a guy with a wife and kid it makes it a little difficult to budget a bunch of extra money for clothes. In the couple months since finding this site and deciding to make myself over a bit I have obtained a few great purchases: Merona Kensington blazer (for $35 on sale), some Levi’s 505s, and some Nordstrom Trim Fit dress shirts ($30 apiece at the Nordstrom Rack). While I am still saving for some quality shoes, these finds have definitely improved my look and my attitude. This is now my go-to site for men’s fashion advice and I appreciate the overall positive and helpful vibe that is found throughout the site. Thanks Joe and all those who contribute and comment.

I have a navy Kenneth Cole New york with a lighter blue pindot I picked up off Overstock awhile back for something like $150.

But that’s when charcoal was the “it” color.

That’s just what was available on overstock now, might be worth keeping an eye on it for awhile. That is, unless J. Crew Factory comes out with a set of navy suit separates. But that’s probably wishful thinking…

There’s no reason to spend that much on a watch if you’re trying to cut costs. The Timex Easy Reader really does look awesome (especially the black leather) for around $30, and if your boss can actually tell or actually cares about the brand of your watch, you should get the hell out anyway.

Great post Joe. Like most of these, especially the beard trimmer. Most ladies like a little scruff anyway. I bought a trimmer for $20 from Target when I was in college. Almost 10 years later and that thing is still getting the job done.

Here are some of the things I have bought recently:
– a $490 Brioni shirt for $80. Better than any shirt I’ve ever worn in my life. Damn thing is slightly too short (I’m 6’5″), but I’ll be able to resale it and get my money back easily.
– $450 Allen Edmunds loafers for $39.99 (seriously!) that look as though they’ve been worn twice.
– A Zegna work shirt for $40.
– Ferragamo, Zegna and Christian Dior ties for about $15.00 each

My point is that for the same price as, say JC Penny or Target you can buy some of the finest clothing made. As long as you buy from reputable sellers you can get fine suits, shirts, ties and shoes for great prices.

I’d just like to note that thrifting is good for more than just old t-shirts. The thrift store is the only place I know where you can get an Italian cashmere blazer for $12, a pair of Polo canvas sneakers for $8, Allen Edmonds loafers for $10, a stack of J.Crew and Banana Republic dress shirts for $6 a pop, and more classic US- and Italian-made ties than you can shake a stick at for $2 each. I’d say about a third or more of the stuff I wear on a daily basis came from thrift stores.

As I sit typing this, I’m wearing a slim-fit Hugo Boss dress shirt, a glen plaid wool waistcoat, an Italian tie, and a beaded bracelet that came to me via Savers, Goodwill, or Salvation Army.

If you don’t want to go with the beard or stubble look, you could get an all-metal safety razor for $30, 100 (one hundred!) blades for $15, and a tube of shave cream which will last for ages for $10. With the cream you don’t even need a brush (but you’ll probably end up with one – along with a variety of creams and soaps…). Good Amazon list here: http://www.amazon.com/Wet-Shaving-list-Safety-Razors/lm/R2761R4PDBGBVJ

I don’t think this is true at all. Most of it is geared towards an older crowd, but I’ve gotten some really good deals on slim fitting dress shirts. the last time I went I walked away with a really nice pair of Clarks too. I think saying it’s all old man clothes is similar to how I felt a few months ago…until i went in and realized that if you dig a bit you can find some good stuff.

I’m not trying to disagree too harshly with what Dappered has picked out because I think they are good suggestions, but I’ve found better quality cuts and styles of shirts at discount retailers than I ever have at Target. The same goes for Ties and belts. Hell last time i was at stein mart they had Levi’s 511’s. Those are a step further in the “young” direction than 514s, which I think are boring and boxy myself (love me some 511s and 510s). I bought a reversable Gap belt a few years ago, and the axle on which the reversing mechanism rotates snapped cleanly in half. I could get two belts of much higher quality by doing some digging than spend that much at Gap.

Like I said, not trying to sling mud or anything, but to make the assumption that those stores just make old man clothes smacks of snobbery when I’ve found plenty of really nice deals.

Great post, Joe. It got me wondering whether there is a similar article or blog post out there for the ladies. My girlfriend often looks to me for style advice but I can only be so helpful. I don’t have the time or energy to do discount hunting for both genders, so can anyone make a suggestion on a similar aggregation for women? Is there a “Dapperedette” out there among the sea of women’s fashion sites?

That’s definitely something to consider. In fact, I only plan to teach for 4-5 years while working on my doctorate, so I think that a large part of where I end up teaching will revolve around where I find a grad school program.

Picked up the second to last grey BR blazer at my local store with the friends and family discount (50%). I’m a 38/40 and the only two they had were 40s, so I’ll have to get it tailored. But, my right arm is an inch longer than my left, so I’d have to do that anyway. I’ve already got a grey blazer but it’s heavier and darker. Looking forward to wearing this one during the summer. Excellent recommendation.

I’m so psyched for ordering from Warby Parker. I had to send my trial pair back that I fell in love with, they never left my face. And at just $125 for high-index, I’ll be a customer for life (or, until Lasik)!

I just did a bit of googling… it sounds like shaving with a double edge safety razor really takes a lot of time (15 minutes minimum even after you’ve mastered wet shaving). I realize that you’ll get a closer shave if you re-lather and shave in different directions, but it seems to me that could be done with a cartridge razor too.

Personally, I’m willing to spend a bit more in order to avoid all the hassles that seem to accompany wet shaving with a safety razor.

I only recently started shaving (within the last 3 weeks) with a double-edged safety razor. While there is a learning curve, it takes me about 2 minutes longer than with a normal razor; nowhere near 15 minutes. I instantly became a believer as you get a nice, close shave without the razor burn. I should mention that I don’t re-lather and shave multiple directions and still get a great shave. Overall, the expense is much less and I don’t find the time to be an issue. I’d highly recommend trying it out.

Thanks for the reply Greg. Can you comment on what razor you came from? I’m currently using the 5 bladed Fusion day to day and my Mach 3 if I’ve let my stubble grow out a bit (the Mach 3 handles the longer hair better than the more tightly spaced Fusion).

When you made the jump to a safety razor did you also change the type/style of shaving cream you were using? (ie, did you move from canned cream to brush and soap or anything like that?)

With lunch meat stick to the pre packaged stuff, often has a higher shelf life. On the vegetable front, the most over looked part of the grocery store is the frozen section. Frozen vegetables can be so handy for a variety of dishes and the shelf life is almost infinite. Give it a try, you’ll be surprised what you will find in those freezers.

Two things: the ease with which the mach3 picks up longer hair vs fusion mimics the ease with which a safety razor picks up hair vs cartridge.Fewer blades, less clogging. I’ve been using straighrazors and safty razors for many years now, and they are much faster. This holiday I was forced to use my dads mach3 beczuse I left my safety at home, and it takes me considerably longer to shave; the cartridges jammed up very quickly. Simply put, longer strokes, quicker shave.

Still, if you’re not sold my second comment might help. In my opinion, the swith from arisol shaving creams in a can to actual shaving soaps was by far the most effective way for improving the comfort of my shave. Like the op said, you don’t need a brush; just lather with your hands as if you’re washing your face. This shift was, for me growing up, far more efficacious than switching blade styles.

@diversification:disqus , I switched from the same blades you are using. I had already switched from a canned shave cream to using a brush and high quality cream that foams well (from a jar) as well as pre-shave oil and a post-shave balm. Those steps have done wonders for me. I now oil (takes about 15 seconds), lather soap on the brush (maybe 30 seconds), shave (a couple minutes), apply balm (a few seconds). On a slow morning the whole process takes 3-5 minutes.

I actually find it to be quicker (and I shave my head…so I have extra real estate to shave). You can shave more area without it getting filled/clogged with newly shaved hair.

Beyond that advantage, I don’t really see what could possibly take a minimum of 15 minutes to shave, unless you’re shaving your entire body. I can shave my head and trim my beard in probably about 3 min.

The biggest difference you’ll see when switching the the amount of irritation. The cartridges work on a pull and cut. The Blades pull the hair upwards as they cut and retract back into your pores. This leaves you with razor bumps and the possibility of in grown hairs. The safety razors cut on one swift stroke reducing irritation.

Yes, sir. I started this whole DE wet shave shindig with gifts of pre-shave oil and shave cream from the Art of Shaving. They are rather pricey and people that know more than I about shaving say they are not worth the $ (razors and other things from that store truly are not, way too much). That being said, I thoroughly enjoy both the quality and feel of the two products and the pre-shave oils smell fantastic. I recently acquired a Proraso after-shave balm that I think is possibly perfect. It seems like the bottle will last easily a year, has a subtle masculine smell, and moisturizes well. I will be looking into pre-shave oils and shave creams or soaps by Proraso after I finish up my Art of Shaving goods. For some extra info, I purchased a long-handle Merkur razor because the short ones didn’t feel right in my hand and a sample pack of blades. Feather blades, made in Japan, are he best blade I’ve tried thus far and very, very, very (no hyperbole here), very sharp.