Mike Rinder – A Scientology “Nobody”

It was in my wallet the day I walked out of L. Ron Hubbard’s old office in Fitzroy St., London. It was my final day in scientology.

I had been sent to London to deal with the BBC Panorama program being done by John Sweeney. As the card states, I was on the Board of Directors of Church of Scientology International and acting at the time as the International Spokesperson for scientology.

Of course, scientology has sought to rewrite history.

On their websites about me, they claim that I held no position of authority and had been removed many years prior to my final escape:

When the misconduct of the Posse [this was their name for the supposed cabal of Marty Rathbun, Tom DeVocht and myself] was discovered, each was removed from their positions. But, consistent with the saint-like compassion the Founder’s Justice system demands, all were given an opportunity to work in low-level positions so they might have the opportunity to once again be members in good standing. That they would remain in low-level positions for several, possibly scores of lifetimes, was only a reflection of the magnitude of their damage and the number of lifetimes depending on their dedication in making full amends for their misconduct.

So what is their gripe? It’s quite simple. When their misconduct was discovered, when their conspiracy was discovered, they requested all of the Founder’s Justice policies be ignored, due to the personal embarrassment they would face when Scientologists became aware of their crimes against the religion and its parishioners—an inevitability as they would be seen performing very low-level functions in the present and the future.

Today, nobody buys the bs scientology shovels about those who speak out and expose their abuses. And also by the way, I have never used the term “posse” in my life, and nor has Marty Rathbun or Tom DeVocht as far as I know. This is just scientology invention.

But it is always interesting when something like this pops up that provides such irrefutable evidence of their lies. They gave a different version of this story — saying I was upset because I had requested to return to the US and this was denied when I was “on assignment” in London. Still not the truth, but somewhat closer to reality. In fact Miscavige had told me I would never return to the US to see my family, and was to be sent to a different country where I could “sell my body” to make ends meet. With that, I knew without a doubt he was a sociopath (I didn’t know or understand the term at that time, I simply considered he was “nuts”), and also knew there was no point continuing to hope things would get better. A couple of days later I made my escape, never to return.

The hope of the future is a powerful glue that sticks you to scientology. So much is promised, and the inculcated idea that it is in your power to make it happen keeps a LOT of people in the bubble. The planet will be cleared. We will go St Hill size and get up the bridge. You will have superpowers if you take your next step. We are making a better world. We have the solutions to drugs, immorality, crime and education. Life at the Int Base will go back to normal. Though there is no evidence any of these things, or many other promises, have ever come close to being true, yet the people caught in the prison of belief so badly WANT them to be true they will ignore all evidence to the contrary. They believe the future is going to be different from the past.

It doesn’t matter what has happened in the past or all the evidence to the contrary because nobody can prove that the future WON’T be what is promised.

It is the same brand of carrot that keeps Jehovah’s Witnesses believing Armageddon is coming no matter how many times it has failed to appear when promised. Or jihadists to fly planes into buildings and certain death.

Hope for a better future is a powerful thing that preys on those with good intentions and causes them to make bad, even terrible, self-sacrificing choices. This is faith. And I don’t mean to say all faith is necessarily bad. I think faith in being held accountable in the afterlife – whether heaven, nirvana or reincarnation is a powerful moral influence for many. But faith can also be terribly corrosive of good sense.

Scientology claims it is not a belief system. But it very much is. The entire subject is based on a belief that the “tech” will bring a better world. A happy person. A cure for illness. Eradication of war. And on and on. A button for everyone.

So much faith and belief in promises that have never been fulfilled but are held out as attainable in the future.

Hey folks! Do you why the University of Texas, in beautiful Austin, chose orange as their color? Well, simple really: They can wear for the game on Saturday, hunting on Sunday, and picking up trash along the rest of the week.

Your treatment is straight out of “1984” and the department of ‘memory hole’. You have disappeared from the history of members (in good standing) . If only they would pull back their eternal attack goons you could have less stress in your life.

“That they would remain in low-level positions for several, possibly scores of lifetimes”…

Doesn’t the above corroborate what you told Tony Ortega about your escape from Scientology; that if you went to Saint Hill for “MEST work” (i.e., punishment), you’d “never get out”? Is that the fate of some of the other high level managers and Shelley M. today?

Groups like Scientology and Jehovah’s Witnesses only continue to exist at the grace of the US military industrial complex. The USMIC has found religion in general most beneficial for their purposes, in both controlling the public and in manipulating military members to die in their made up wars. Richard Nixon even wrote of this. But this window of prosperity for religion is quickly closing as religion has become less of a benefit to them and more or a detriment. Hey Miscav… the dogs are at your door.

No, it’s the influence of extreme supposed “Christian” groups and ideologies that allows exploitative fringe groups to exist unchecked, because they don’t want their own extravagant-living preachers and leaders, and facilities and compounds rife with questionable activities taking place, to come under scrutiny for fraud and abuse. Business has nothing to do with it except to the extent that they, too, would prefer to be unaccountable and unregulated as much as they can get away with it.

For those of you trapped in the demented world of scientology currently lorded over by David Miscavige, a sociopath (and likely psychopath), the following link will provide you with lots of resources for understanding the screw that turns his propeller. I’ve got a friend that’ll post another similar link shortly. See

Mike, that one is just whack, and telling. That that is his go-to for insults, gay male sexuality? Maybe it wasn’t an insult but an offer. DM does seem to have something for good looking men. Gay, who knows. How bout DM is just an asshole.

David Miscavige is such a fool to have you mistreated and driven away, Mike. He never had a proper spokesperson anymore after you had left. And he knows it! He even used blinking Yingling in his desperation.

And he surely hates it that you escaped and are free, free to speak, enjoying life and that he couldn’t “ruin you utterly”.

I’m sure that he reads here every day and hates it that you have this blog exposing him and analyzing what’s really happening in the Scientology-world. And he must be so furious that you did Scn & The Aftermath with Leah.

I’m not a gloating person normally, but in consideration of how I was treated and how many others were treated, I’ve to admit that this gives me some satisfaction, that he pulled this all in and that he has to live with it. Every day.

Well said Pluvo. Mike was the best thing that ever happened to the monster.

This monster is so consumed by hatred that he doesn’t know when he has it good and he apparently feels he must push people until they either blow or they have a mental breakdown. When it comes to Mike Rinder he certainly got what he deserves. I think he will continue to get more of what he deserves until he is responsible for the destruction of this despicable cult. Oh what a happy day that will be!

Miscavige didn’t pull this in. That’s Hubbard-speak to make the rubes feel guilty and responsible for every single thing that happens in their world, but especially anything that can be seen as a negative, in hindsight.

It is cultish control language, because if everything is always your fault, there’s a book, tape, program, whatever we sell for the low, low price of $5,000, and a next step for only $10,000, and the final final last step for a tiny, tiny sum of $400,000, which I, your friend Mr Regge, will personally guarantee to double your money back in three days, without fail, after we teach you the secrets of our programs that I know will Make It Go Right. I’ll even find someone to loan you the funds, at the low introductory interest rate of 30%, seeing as how you have that house and business and rental property for collateral.

Not everything in this world is my fault, your fault, our fault. Sometimes bad things happen to good people, and vice versa. You don’t have to look a million years into some mythical past life to understand if you drive stupidly bad things can happen to you, if the other guy drives stupidly bad things can happen to you, and if the engineers who designed you car did it stupidly bad things can happen to any of us.

So, in other words, Miscavige doesn’t necessarily DESERVE his misfortunes, his bad luck, the attacks he’s receiving…to some degree, he’s an innocent victim? Is this what you’re saying? Miscavige is not responsible for his own deplorable condition?

I could be wrong, aqua, but I think pluvo is making fun of the Scientology rationale for why bad things happen to people. Now of course we do make mistakes and bad decisions in life and I would never attribute World War II and the defeat of Germany to something that Hitler pulled in that was out-ethics. That’s the Scientology explanation. Hitler made dumb decisions that brought down Nazi Germany and David Miscavige is doing the same with Scientology.

I’ve heard a lot about how many of the top execs who have stuck around still believe LRH is coming back. This is a very sad mentality that is due to the decades of indoctrination. I don’t know if Mike himself ever believed this at some point as well but most of those execs are his age or older and have been there as long as him or longer. It’s going to be an interesting situation if or when the arrest warrant is issued for DM, I hope we don’t see a Waco situation at Int Base or Flag occur.

I believe there are videos of John Sweeney asking Mike about various topics (such as physical abuse). Mike then answers each of these charges with total and complete lies. We know this because too much info (with plenty of corroboration) has since come out.

Rather than having to take bits and pieces of info from here and there, I’ve often thought a video or episode of Mike (Mike and John?) doing play-by-play would be very effective. This would give Mike the chance to talk about what’s going through his mind as he hears these damning questions, how he worries about maintaining the proper demeanor, how he submerges the instinct to blurt out “if you only knew” and how he is able to derisively couch his lying response. John could explain how he’s trying to wake up Mike. Why he asks this question at that moment, etc. Then for more fun they could review a Tommy Davis video with Mike explaining what TD is doing and where and why TD is taking a different tact.

A timeline leading into this would, along with what $ci.. is currently saying, clearly expose the $ci.. lies Mike has mentioned above.

You may want to check out some of Marty’s old videos. Use the site search. I’ve also seen some videos where JS speaks about it.
If you were ever in a cult it’s pretty easy to figure out what he was or wasn’t thinking.

Like so many who posted already, the ‘saint-like’ line….I had to re-read it several times, then I had to try to figure out if you was being sarcastic. After I realized that it was serious, I couldn’t stop laughing. I actually chuckled on and off all day (making my co-workers think Id finally lost it) at one point, I was in a managers meeting and burst out in giggles. So thanks for that bit of ridiculousness.

Unfortunately, levity aside, I realize that at the time, it must have been devastating to you. This cult is truly an evil enterprise that knows absolutely no decency. I just want you to know that the smear campaigns are looked at as the ridiculous last ditch effort of a cult that is losing control. When I first saw the show, I thought to myself that it was the stupidest thing they could have done. By painting every single person who left and spoke out, whether high ranking or not, as an unethical screw-up, it makes everyone (other than those in) think:

1. That the cult must be the poorest judge of character EVER (if so many people got to such high ranks and were labeled incompetent and unethical, then exactly who was watching the HR department??!!?? )

2. That the leader of this extremely poorly run cult is an absolute idiot

3. That its all lies to try to obfuscate an even bigger issue within the cult

4. That the smeared individuals are obviously telling the truth because the cult is trying waaay too hard to cover up the fact that every person had the same basic facts on why they left

5. That by doing this to people, they actually give validity to what the people are saying

If they had simply let you walk away quietly, even if they disconnected your relatives, most of it would have been ‘he said, she said’ and wouldn’t have been so fascinating. They are truly idiots if they think that smearing someone, sending people to harass and follow people, screaming insults etc. does anything other than bring unwanted attention to them.

This craziness really needs to stop happening. The over-the-top claims, the fake sites, the lies (which are easily disproven) all needs to stop. I wish there were more that I could do. I wish that this had never happened to you or anyone else. I wish that it could just stop. But I know it will take much more than just wishing.

I will be going to Washington in April and I will keep doing my ‘one thing a day’ to try to help. Its not much, but Im not sure what else can be done. It really inspires me to hear how people were strong enough to leave. I am a never- in, so , yes, I DONT know what it was like inside. I can intellectually understand it. I can definitely understand how it can destroy families (I have some experience with a ‘main-stream’ cult can destroy people, even if they aren’t actually members). but I cant know what its like inside the ‘bubble’. I don’t mean to post so much to your blog, but I am who I am because of a cult and how it changed my life.

I cant bear to fight that one- my sons grandparents are still quite active, and I cant do that to my son (other than teach him what to beware of). He still doesn’t know all of the details that his father went through before he died at their hands. I also do not think I have a leg to stand on in that fight as it has to do with an individual choice, which the supreme court has adjudicated already (and other than filing a wrongful death case against his own parents, its in the past). So here I am. I just hope that I can help in whatever capacity I can.

Kat,
I’m SO sorry to hear all you went through at the hands of a cult! You’re right to protect your son. I come from a family of Jewish background, but most all of us are Christian. I’ve seen people get involved in “Christian” cults, Scientology, JW and more and it’s heart wrenching to watch someone you love become anathema to reason or a sense of reality.
Hugs!

I think that the experience with that is what has made me so outraged about the scientology situation- it hit a sore spot. What they did to Lisa McPherson was a little too close to the bone for me. The upside is that I get to fight this cult! I couldn’t fight that one, so…

I first got the Dianetics book in the 80s. I try to be open minded or at least understanding. And having lived in Clearwater for so long I have followed all the goings on of Scientology. I was never a member and after reading that book, that I would call hokey at best, nor would I ever join.

But, even I remember you Mike. Always defending Scientology on the news.

I just can’t grasp how they keep getting away with what amounts to child abuse, threats and harrassment of people, including our old mayor and other horrific acts.

Our beach is rated number one, yet locals hate downtown. Scientology is taking more property daily. They pay no taxes and they are taking over our neigh orhoods.

They are here to help people??? How can they help anyone if they don’t even talk to people. They are like the walking dead of souls downtown.

I think that one sentence says so much about who Miscavige really is its scary. He is truly an evil man with a mentality that would rival the Marquis de Sade. I think he would like to think he is Machiavellian in his machinations, but he is more akin to the Borgias and their depravity. Sorry for all the Historical alliteration- I’m in a mood.

Did you know that scientology is listed on several sites as one of the ten most dangerous cults? not on topic, but interesting.

Thank you Mike – hearfelt thanks for posting this – and also Kat’s response – I just found out about the ‘smear campaign’ OSA has been running about me – I’m thinking only for the last 10 years since I became a ‘whistle blower’ – even though I left the Sea Org 19 years ago.

Your powerful words exactly sum it up and make sense of it all for me…I guess in Scn. terms; we’re only considered ‘dangerous’ (hence their smear campaigns) because we are now out and free and have spoken freely and publicly of the gruesomeness and insanities within the church we experienced before we escaped; to help others, friends and families that are still in – to push through that ‘purposeful blindness’ (to quote Paul Haggis) which keeps us there and part of their bs for as long as is does.

Nope- that ship sailed a long time ago. Miscavige will likely end up in prison or a broken man hiding out like Hubbard did at the end. There is no salvation/redemption for him- he has been a pissant of a humanoid for too long. Just try to picture what he would do if all of the power and money were to go away…its not like he has any abilities that would translate into the real world.

Kat, I suspect that Miscavige learned from what he saw happen to Hubbard – he seems like a relatively clever pathological personality, and probably not as debilatingly mentally ill as Hubbard was episodically* and then at the end of his life – and so he probably has a better plan, assuming he stays in control and isn’t facing either severe health issues, outside forces or some other sort of “black swan” event.

* And at least as early as the time of the pitiful letters he wrote to the VA and acquaintances in the late 1940s; there were several other instances where he was in bad shape after physical problems such as a motorcycle accident, and I suspect there was more going on that was mis-interpreted or covered up by his enablers.

You are probably right- like every good rodent he likely has a little bolt hole. I guess he could hit up old Tom to put him up in some anonymous compound somewhere.

If this cult implodes or is ended in some way, it will make it more difficult to hide since so many people know what he looks like. I’m sure he has plenty of money squirreled away for the day he needs it. (Pun intended)

Your writing focus has reached a level which makes it’s delivery clear and meaningful to a much larger audience! Even a religious zealot would understand your concise depiction of the unpredicted illborn consequences from blindly weilding the double-edged sword of Faith.

I distinctly remember the day I heard you blew. I had been out of the Sea Org for about 9 years but was still connected to people on the Kool Aid, I was content on being a Freeloader the rest of my life.

But when an FSM named Ronite Sorroco ran into me at a Starbucks in California and said to me “did you hear a Mike Rinder blew”?! I knew right then if he blew something is really wrong. This started the process of me looking and really finding wtf is goin on. Thank you! Now I’m free forever.

“saint-like compassion the Founder’s Justice system demands…” I haven’t laughed so hard. They justice system in Scientology is a kangaroo court, one of the worst I’ve ever heard, seen, experienced and known.

I find this reference to Kangaroos insulting.
The IJC has absolutely nothing on the dear old Aussie Kangaroo as far as I am concerned. The IJC is made up of a few 12 years olds who have zero life experience pontificating about how good the “Church” is and how bad everybody else is. They run one of THE most evil lines of control in the “Church”. Ugly, mean spirited little people with no idea of the impact of their actions. Zero empathy, zero emotion, zero humanity.

@ LTEC – LOL! You beat me to what I was going to say. Apologies to ‘roos everywhere. I adore them. Especially when they’re carrying their little ones – those ears, those little heads peaking out…OMG, the cutest. I MUST get to Australia some day.

As for the IJC, I can just imagine…evil 12 year olds…Children of the Corn. And I thought the teenaged Sea Org brats swarming were bad, back in the day.

Mike, great piece. Besides pointing out the hypocrisy, it very succinctly conveys the sort of promises and hopes that string people along.

And their claim about the supposed “saint-like compassion the Founder’s Justice system demands” is a whopper, even by the standards of their propaganda. As Brian demonstrated just the other day, the “founder” explicitly rejected “wog morality” – which includes traditional Christian compassion – and instead the Scientology justice system instead operates on a heartless “ethics”, in the manner of typical totalitarian kangaroo courts, and like something out of Orwell’s 1984. Usually they just disingenuously claim apostates weren’t up to their standards of “ethics” – which is a deliberately misleading way of saying that they weren’t willing to implement whatever ruthless means necessary, to support the ends of the CofS – but they really laid it on there.

Good article, Mike! You wrote, “Miscavige had told me I would never return to the US to see my family, and was to be sent to a different country where I could “sell my body” to make ends meet. With that, I knew without a doubt he was a sociopath.” I’m curious, what did you do (or did DM think you did) to warrant such harsh punishment to be banished to another country etc?

I think in the second Panorama show and in Sweeney’s book. I might have covered it elsewhere too, but I honestly don’t recall right at the minute. Maybe with Tony Ortega when he did a video interview with me? Or in a video with Marty or Aaron Smith-Levin? I think I touched upon it with Ron Miscavige on his podcast recently.

One of the simpler, hence better explanations of the Scientology mindset that traps people in the bubble. You sure lived through some awful shit Mike. And to think that sort of never ending & worsening nightmare still rages in the hallways of Scientology… oh my.

Miscavige found just the right cult where every grievous & immoral action on his and the cult’s part can be perfectly explained away and excused under the guise of a “great big beautiful Scienbot tomorrow.” Perfect for a diminutive sociopath like Der Dwarfenfuehrer. If every misery is “for the greatest good” and only temporary it’s truly amazing what you can get away with.

Someday the mad LRH wannabe’s mini-body will give up the ghost – beyond his control saying when – and maybe then the cult will truly implode in the mad scramble for power for the next unstable space lord despot. Their end of days is righteously coming. Amazing the damage one sick and twisted individual like LRH can cause, even beyond their deaths. I wish people just weren’t so darn gullible.

Yes Mike, please won’t you write a book? I always enjoy hearing how you vanished into the London subway while all the nasties were left scratching their heads. One of my most favorite blow jobs!

See what I did there? I told you I would try to get better at writing humor. Was that better? Or was it just dumb? Tell me the truth? I’m guessing that if it was better, it wasn’t very much better. Oh well.

I once read a comment where someone said they objected to people saying they “blew” scientology since in scientology a blow is said to be ONLY because of a misunderstood word or overts (transgressions) against the cherch which is certainly not the case. I like saying I blew scientology. It sounds rather dramatic and sort of implies I created a commotion when I left – which I didn’t – lol

The church has used the line “removed from their positions due to their crimes…” (paraphrasing) so many times you would think that they only employ criminals as there are so many ex-members “fired for crimes”! How many criminals are in that place? The percentages must be high!

There’s a new company that advertises that they can put picture on a sheet of glass for you to hang on your wall at home……WWWOOO WWEEEE!!!!!!

I’d give it a SHOT, have this card emblazoned on a sheet of glass & THEN THROW RUBBER DARTS AT IT.

for CHRISTOPHER B…..
…I DISAGREE entirely with your statement about “People who were never in. Will never understand why we were Scientologist. It was always the hope for a better future, for the planet, for mankind”

When I was 17/18 I had FRIENDS who got themselves into OTHER cults….”The Moonies”….”Hare Krishna”….”Children of God”….FOR THE SAME REASONS….wanting to improve the world, make it a more loving caring place. Most of them found out the same thing Mike and many others did find out about COS……AFTER their dedication & loyalty to it.

Some of them were in a short time, maybe a few months, others in for a few years, yet others in for decades. The ones who got out earlier on, did well. The ones who stayed in for a few years or for decades had REAL issues dealing with what they said was “their own stupidity” or “bad decision” that separated them from the life they were hoping to have….worse yet…brain washed or coerced into separating from FAMILY of NON BELIEVERS….

While in & even after leaving “the cult”….None of them had any $$$…..no real education…& nowhere to live outside of living in a type of commune environment, sequestered for the OWN protection from the real world (to keep them from being influenced into leaving). Sadly the only work experience they had was within the realm, confines & control of that “brand of religion”.

When they left that religion, there reality smacked them hard in the face……a BITTER PILL to have to swallow….some got into drug & alcohol abuse, others had mental breakdowns & some were in such poor health…well, I imagine you can figure that one out.

My heart aches for the really GOOD people who got sucked into COS because they truly believed it all…worse yet for the “born ins” who had no real CHOICE in the matter, & were kept away from CRITICAL THINKING & educations like seeing the OTHER side of the coin so that they could compare what they were being spoon fed & what is really going on outside the “bubble” of COS so that they could make appropriate decisions.

The people who were never in Scientology, never really duplicate what it was like and why we were there. I can tell by your comment to me you were never in Scientology. Scientology is nothing like the Moonies, Hare Krishna, etc.

The bottom line is that it is a cult. There may be fundamental differences in belief systems, but it is still a cult. The main issues are the control over members’ lives, the dishonesty and lies…and the disconnection from loved ones.

Scientology is a ‘main stream’ cult, meaning that it has a public, benevolent face that they show the world. One that usually hides the rotten underbelly. The difference in what the belief systems are is entirely irrelevant to the issues of the harm that cults do.

Dean,
Yes, we can’t forget that little gem! That’s where you get another big difference in a sect and a cult. In a cult, there is almost always a complete disproportion to the wealth and living conditions from the “leader” and the followers. That’s a common cult pattern, but not necessarily a benchmark

Over a lifetime, there are certain events which are indelibly held close to our hearts: our marriage(s), the birth of our children, deaths of people we loved and respected and when we escaped Scientology…a landmark event that set us free of oppression. In my case, it was over 40 years ago…but I’m STILL celebrating! I celebrate your escape in spades!

Hello Rheva! I think I may know you from another forum – a very different kind of forum where people discuss many different kinds of issues. One of the boards there is called, “Cafe Society”? Does that sound familiar?

Anyway, in the meantime, I also got out about 40 years ago. But it wasn’t too difficult for me cuz I was only in for a few days. But that was all it took for me to realize the only thing I ever wanted from this cult was Out! Out! Out! Sometimes I feel so irrelevant here compared to so many of these people who have experienced terrible suffering.

I applaud you for finding your way out. Good on You! I don’t think that anyone who breaks out manages to succedd without difficulty. I definitely encountered some roadblocks when I first tried to leave.

If you ever feel like talking about your experience and about how you broke out and how they tried to stop you from doing that, I’m sure that many people here would like to hear about that. I know that I sure would.

If you don’t feel like talking about it, that is certainly OK and please know this is a welcoming place where people are happy to be here and happy to have you here. I hope to see you again. Ciao for now, Rheva!

I’m thinking David Miscavige is a Cruisexual. I don’t mean it is a physical relationship, more like TC is a pet or a piece of valued property for DM to manipulate. The guy has probably meddled in every relationship TC has had since his first steps in Scientology. I bet DM has maneuvered him to precisely where he wants him. He may not have him as a sexual partner, but he owns him. The audits, the vacations, the hard work of saving the planet. Who takes their best friend on their honeymoon with their new spouse? Does Tom make a move without consulting David Miscavige? I doubt it.

I know for myself I had no “faith” in Scientology, it was nothing but a belief.
Faith is probably a cuss word in the Church.
One must “believe” everything Ron says.
And I didn’t. But I did have faith that the right path would show itself to me and it did once I stopped “believing” in Scientology ☺️

* Belief that Hubbard’s “tech” works, in the absence of modern scientific research or empirical evidence to support it, and in spite of Hubbard being a lying criminal con man and a tyranical leader, because it is the time-proven tech of past civilizations on other planets for which he was just a channel

* Belief that there is an eons-old “psych” conspiracy that has kept Scientology – CofS or independent – from succeeding like it should, and put it on its current path of failing and heading towards extinction

* Belief that one’s “eternity” is under threat from being “implanted”* between lives by psychs at stations on Mars and Venus (the former has now been mapped in great detail, and the latter has only been radar mapped because its environment is so inhospitable – with what Hubbard described, including locomotives on Venus, not existing on either)

Quite a few of the “true believer” and loyalist types that show up here to defend Hubbard and the “tech” must have those and similar underlying “space opera” beliefs, that they’re not even willing to mention in their attempts to defend Scientology, because they know how ludicrous they would sound.

PeaceMaker – I just took a look at these references. I was surprised to see that they had such an extensive summary of the Scientology space opera. They filled in the gaps I had on the overall storyline. The second reference had a picture of Mike Rinder as a previous spokesman saying that extraterrestrial auditing was merely a small part of the subject.

Back in my day the “OT Cosmology” was well hidden and I blew Scientology before investigating it. Good luck or good karma I guess.

How about a blog on what the end of Scientology will look like. Selling of Real Estate? Indictments? More prominent’s leaving?
Saw your appearance on the Bill Kurtis special in the 90’s. You were a total badass defending the cult. But you are WAY more clear eyed today. Robotic but passionate was the “look”. You should have had the title of “The Defender of the Faith” on your card.
Glad that the eyes cleared and the heart got full.

Based on everything I’ve seen, I’d say 20,000 max. And a number of close observers think more like 12,000 to 15,000, which is entirely possible.

I don’t think even the CofS itself knows how many real members they have, given the large but unknown number of UTRs who would blow in a heartbeat if they didn’t fear disconnection. We can see here in the promo pieces that most orgs only seem to have about 35 to 50 active members that they can count on to show up regularly, and with about 140 orgs that would only account for about 5,000 to 7,000 people, with maybe around 1,000 more at remaining missions, plus around 3,000 Sea Org members – those rough calculations only amount to about 10,000, though including less active and inactive people, the IAS could easily have 20,000 on the books.

“Holy dung heap Batman! How big a shovel did it take to lay down that mountain of manure?”

Yeah, I had to read through that sentence several times to figure out that that wasn’t Mike being sarcastic about them, but Scientologists actually being that grandiose about themselves. (Go figure!) They really seem to lose all ability to notice how these things come across to others. “Bubble” is right. They’re insulated from reality.

Or maybe it’s their saint-like compassion providing self-parody, so we don’t have to go to the trouble of parodying them?

DM must have just about popped aneurysm when you blew. It is so gratifying to imagine the scenario…
Just quitting and walking away is ultimate power.

I’m so glad for you. Your story is valuable, Mike.

You WERE at the top. You know that hundreds, and most likely – thousands, know the truth of your story from on the ground.

Love the rest too – the “hope of the future” … this is so key to staying in. The OT and Clear society carrot is huge.

…
With a rock-solid faith in all things Hubbard, and the knowledge that “man is fallible”, we were fully set up and conditioned to stay IN to forward the absolute rightness of Scn, and we’d take responsibility for the fallibility of our fellow group members and the tiger traps abounding in Wog society.

Perhaps all one needs is the first step, perhaps,…just being able to think that “Ron was wrong” about ONE THING… maybe that’s the road out!

My new squirrel process:

“Tell me something Ron was wrong about”

“Tell me about something in Scientology that doesn’t work as you were led to believe”

………

Their smear sites are so funny – the real world doesn’t believe or care, and those who are IN know that the smear is a lie built upon a kernel of twisted truth, done for the good of the group.

Mike — your credibility has risen hugely for me over the past few years. It is obvious that you are invested in spreading truth and containing damaging effects of groups addressed the Aftermath programs. Thanks so much!

I agree that it would be interesting to know if Marty Rathburn is in or out of co$, since watching videos and reading posts says it both ways. Thanks, Mike for your devotion to bringing this cult to an end. Oh, and by the way, don’t get put off by my email name – its’ a long story.

Mr. Baranet – Perhaps everyone in Scientology at one time or another wanted the glorious future Hubbard promised, full of spaceships and billions of years of life as a wonderful Big Being, homo novis, better than the wogs who had no PC Folder full of grand wins, better than any non-Scientologist in every way.

I believe most Scientologists did actually believe in Hubbard’s promises, the Bridge, the Tech, Auditing, Case Supervisors, Ethics, the MAA, the RPF, the Sea Org, the Xenu story, BTs, entheta, enturbulation, PTS, SPs able to wreck even the most powerful Thetan with a look or a word, Hubbard’s magnificent baby formula, his window washing tech, and all that – they believed whole heartedly, at least for one day, probably for many days in the cult.

But it was a con. It was and is a cult, by any definition of the word “cult”. Those worthy of clearing MUs by going deeper into the definition should have no problem realizing it was and is a cult. An organization can be a cult and a religion at the same time, they are not mutually exclusive concepts.

It was Hubbard’s magnificent con. He was good at it. He wrote out all the details, except for those he stole, or others wrote that he took credit for when he drummed them out of his cult. He revised his policies time and again, he pretended to do research when in fact he was looking at his typewriter or out the window the whole time. Many good people fell for his carrot and stick operation. They were good, hopeful people – but they were also carefully manipulated in many ways, over many days, by a master manipulator.

You say those never in can’t understand Scientology. I think we can. It is not hard – it’s just another high control cult, something experts have written about after careful research. Ho hum. Boring. Another silly cult.

Where I think there is a huge blind spot is in those Scientologists who are still in, or who have escaped yet still believe in Hubbard’s con to some extent. Many continue to use his key words and key concepts, which were all designed as part of an integrated whole cult entrapment scheme. People who have not quit everything Scientology, who have not fully absorbed all the honest information about Hubbard’s history, might have difficulty understanding where he came from, what he did, and why he did it.

Your own statement about never-ins not being able to understand the Scientologist experience is a perfect example of arrogant thinking, learned in Scientology. People who think their group is superior to any other group, that their group and only their group has special knowledge unavailable to lesser humans, are just plain wrong. But Hubbard would be proud of any Scientologist, in or out, for thinking they were superior beings compared to us wogs.

I am sure you know there is only one species of human alive today. It is homo sapiens. There is no homo novis, it is a made-up concept, like so many made-up concepts that Hubbard drummed into his followers. To the extent we care, to the extent we empathize, to the extent we immerse ourselves in the language and operation of any cult, yes, ordinary people can get a pretty good idea of what went on. Unlike Scientologists, we never-ins do not have to unlearn all the lessons Hubbard went to such great lengths to drive deep into his cult followers life.

Hubbard renamed who knows how many accepted descriptions of human behavior to make scientology seem original and unique and give participants the idea that they have special insights. Renaming a valid concept doesn’t make the concept invalid. The project is in retranslating the Clamspeak* back into King’s English. Sometimes using Clamspeak on a blog is fun but I don’t think with it.

* Clamspeak – I believe Mr. Hubbard said most or all of us have genetic memories of once being a clam, hence the term which someone else came up with. Several other such memories would be available upon inspection, so said Mr. Hubbard.

I’d like to think that I retained some critical thinking skills when I was a Scientologist and didn’t accept all Scientology concepts as factual. But that was a long time ago and that might be dub-in on my part. (dub is King’s English. dub-in might be Clamspeak, remembering things differently than they actually occurred. There’s probably a King’s English description of the concept. Semantics – lol)

Richard, you’re probably right about that – after all, you weren’t in that long, and had the good sense to get out! And if I recall, it wasn’t necessarily experiencing something awful yourself, which is often what it finally takes to undermine the faith of long-term members, but observing things that just didn’t seem right to you.

You’re also correct to catch and account for the possibility that you may have re-contextualized your memories of the past – I can’t remember a good name for it, and don’t have time to go digging, but perhaps Kat can enlighten us. Modern research, particularly brain science, is demonstrating just how fallible and plastic our memories are – which, as I like to point out, accounts for the false if impressive phenomenon of “past life” recollection that Scientology exploits – thus refuting Hubbard’s primitive model of the mind or brain as an infallible computer, though even in Hubbard’s day and before, astute observers were aware of many problems with such theories.

We’ve long known, for instance, that every witness to something like an accident has slightly if not even drastically different recollections of what happened. Courts are now even starting to give juries instructions to take into account the fact that research shows that our brains are wired to not be very good at telling apart people of ethnic groups different from us, and thus more prone to making false identifications.

There are several theories that would account for memories being manipulated or changed over time. Several of these have to do with studies that were done on the hippocampus of the brain (where most memories are stored). Other theories have to do with subtle brainwashing through repeated and prolonged exposure to propaganda, which is what is most commonly seen in cults. There is one theory called the misinformation effect that can account for memories being “mis-remembered” due to the way the events are framed after they occur. This is also called retroactive interference. There are others that are dovetailed here in cognitive theory dealing with the levels of processing and semantic interference. There is also Associative recognition and the competitive trace theory.

Any of these, or several of them could account for memories degrading and being ‘rewritten’ by the mind. Its much like remembering an event in your childhood- if you had a happy home-life, many memories take on the same tenor of the overall effect of the time when we created the memory. If it was a bad time, many memories may be change to reflect the way you were feeling at the time the event happened.

Either way, we all have degradation of memories as they get further in the past. Generally, we ‘fill in the blanks’ based on events that occurred throughout the life span- or things we do remember happened at that time. The brain cant retrieve some memories, and we trick ourselves into ‘remembering’ things with clarity that doesn’t actually exist. If it is taken to extremes, you can implant ‘false’ memories about things that never occurred- basically implanting a memory where one didn’t exist.

not sure if this is what you were looking for, but in a nutshell (and there are numerous other theories dealing with false memories) few people have perfect clarity in memory- so we tend to fill in the missing parts to create a whole picture of what we ASSUME happened.

And that was probably too much information! There are also studies in neuroplasticity that can shed some light, but Ill leave it with this.

BRAIN, 1. another part of the nervous system which receives and
sends impulses to the body parts. (SPB) 2. a neuro-shock
absorber. It has very little to do with thinking. (SH Spec 75,
6608C16) 3. a very mechanical rattletrap sort of a switchboard
that’s been thrown together by you in order to translate thought
into action and to coordinate energy. (5203CM03B).

Mike, it seems the brain theory boys and gals are muscling in here and taking over your blog! There’ll be a shingle hung up here soon of “Psychology Yesterday, Today and Forever”! Still, it (the brain) can always be fried or cut up if all else fails eh?

Curious as to how you define “brain theory”? Is this the “theory” that the brain DOES have a lot to do with thinking? As opposed to the Hubbard theory that it does not?

One thing that has always puzzled me. If the brian has so little do with thinking, why be so worried about electric shock, lobotomies or brain-altering drugs? Such that anyone becomes an “illegal pc” who is “unable to be helped”?

See please: “Brain – 3. a very mechanical rattletrap sort of a switchboard
that’s been thrown together by you in order to translate thought
into action and to coordinate energy.” Doesn’t help if you fry it or cut chunks out of it. Does it? Or is there a word there that is, well, you know, even slightly misunderstood?

Haha! And I notice you are catching my “disease” now and labeling brain as “Brian”. LOL!

And indeed, “the Brian has very little to do with thinking”! In fact this is hurting my Brian! We can do some Brian-storming on this brian theory if your brian is not hurting too much under the influence of Kat’s Freudian Slips. And are there any more Brian theories issuing forth from Brian’s brian? I look forward to these Brian-teasers!

And as for Kat, well, yep, glad I missed out on that – you carry on getting your Brian mapped! (Bursts out in another uproarious guffaw! AKA – LOL!) Have they found the immortal soul yet? And don’t tell me – he wasn’t called Brian by any chance? (Bursts out in another uproarious guffaw! AKA – LOL!)

I do hope Brain (sic) has read this – makes it all the more sweeter. LOL – again!

Richard, good point that Hubbard created new words when it suited him – they’re known as neologisms, and can be a tool of manipulation, indoctrination and propaganda when mis- or over-used, as exemplified in Orwell’s 1984 and its “newspeak.” If Hubbard had been rigorous and scientific, he’d have used qualified terms (“scio-ethics” would be a hypothetical example) to avoid confusion with common uses of existing terms, and coined a few new words if and when absolutely necessary for clarity – but instead his use of language seems to virtually exemplify an aspect of manipulative “confusion technique.”

Empathy is an interesting example of a word coined not much more than a century ago, to embody a new, enlightening and entirely legitimate concept. Hubbard, stuck as much in the late 19th century as the early 20th, apparently didn’t get the memo about that – but then again, narcissists and sociopaths lack the ability to appreciate that others have feelings worth valuing.

PeaceMaker and Kat La Rue – I think the key word here is “theories”. There is no universally accepted description of memories and how they are accessed and maybe there never will be. “altered memories” would be an adequate equivalent to dub-in. Clams would call it dub-in and Wogs would call it altered memories.

Richard, I think the “maybe there never will be” sort of argument is specious – science is clearly on a path of greater and greater understanding, partly due to the emergence of new tools such as fMRI or functional MRI, which effectively allows researchers to see the brain in operation. A few of the most complex issues, like spirituality and free will, may well remain mysteries – I actually honor the idea, the science points us towards what is truly mysterious as it explains the mundane.

Beyond that old wisdom that every witness to an accident has a different memory of it, modern science has a least thoroughly proven that memory does indeed have significant shortcomings, and is subject to revision and even manipulation. Hubbard’s and Scientology’s theories about memory, have now been thoroughly debunked, and it’s clearly been demonstrated that their techniques and processes lead to a lot of false “memories” (a phenomenon so pervasive that even Hubbard had to tacitly acknowledge it), as well as having other shortcomings and even dangers

“Debunked” eh? Really, by whom? No doubt some “authority on the human mind” eh? Maybe I should call you “Mr. Debunker”! Continuing with my “childish” type of humor as noted by Mike, if you were to post on The Bunker you could be called “Mr. Bombastic Debunker of the Bunker”, but no, that is not half so funny as “Brian”. Still had a small chuckle though!

Mike there should be an MP3 attachment so people can play “Mr. Bombastic” whenever Peacemaker posts his long screeds of “authoritative” references that he thinks proves something or other.

FP, debunked a number of research studies that I’ve referenced many times before, available in the citations for the Wikipedia article; I actually have copies of all the works cited as well as some additional ones on the subject, if anyone is really interested in original sources: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Past_life_regression#Sources_of_memories

And of course no one claiming past lives has ever shown full recall of foreign languages they would have spoken, or even archaic English dialects, or the ability to recall truly incontrovertible details of dates and other specific information like full names of family members, much less say walk into a bank and claim old accounts. I know there are anecdotal cases told with a bit of intriguing embellishment, but they all lack incontrovertible detail and end up breaking down under scrutiny like Bridey Murphy.

And finally, one of the problems that dying scientology – including the indies – have, is none of the thousands of people who went “clear” or “OT” before passing away decades ago, are picking up new bodies and showing back up at the orgs with full recall and case gains intact to save the day. That’s not working out like Hubbard explicitly promised it would, is it?

Richard – I think there are several tracts written or given as lectures by Hubbard, one as I vaguely recall (joke there for the idiots) is called something like “On Human Memory” – tapes as well as PABs. Perhaps you should ask Kat which part of the Brian (sic) map that is?

That is church property, bearing trademarks enforced by the RTC. Therefore you must return it promptly–along with all comparable materials–to the CSI. If you fail to cooperate then Monique will commence generating mountains of menacing correspondence to compel your eventual compliance. Do not force me to activate the dragon lady, it will cost both you and us a lot of money.

Hello Aaron, If you are interested in some harmless trolling, please send me an email at: [email protected] I will tell you about some ideas I had and some fun ways to test the waters. You may enjoy them. In the meantime:
———————————————————————————————————————–
I saw a reference to IAS and I looked into it and thought you might enjoy what I found.

Many people think IAS stands for International Association of Scamologists. But I checked the main links to IAS.ORG and here is what I found:

IAS.ORG – does not belong to THE SCAM – it belongs to “International Association of Sufism”.
IASSOCIETY.ORG does not seem to belong to THE SCAM. It seems to belong to a group associated with AIDS and says it was founded in 1988.
IASMEMBERSHIP.ORG – belongs to THE SCAM. Can you guess why it uses the word “MEMBERSHIP”? People who are familiar with THE SCAM will know the answer.

The answer is that although this site is full of fancy talk, fancy options and fancy promises, there is really only one thing you can do on this site.
The only thing you can actually do is to send them money. Nothing else. Everything else you do goes nowhere.
The only parts of this site that are active are the parts where you send them money in return for NOTHING.

One of the funniest things about this site is, at the bottom of the page it says: “You can ask us to stop sending you mailings at any time simply by asking us.”
This is hilarious because although they write “you can ask us to stop at any time”, they never say anything about actually stopping.
You can always ask anyone to do anything. But that doesn’t mean they will ever do what you ask. Pretty slick, huh?

I wondered who was first to register “IAS.ORG”. If it was the AIDS people, then THE SCAM couldn’t have considered it to be too important.
Otherwise, they would have tried to buy it, or more likely, tried to bully or threaten the AIDS people into giving it to them.

I wonder if this “International AIDS Society” really has anything to do with AIDS or whether it’s just a front for THE SCAM.
I wonder if any donations made on this site go anywhere that has anything to do with AIDS or if they go to THE SCAM instead?
THE SCAM uses the name IASMEMBERSHIP.ORG and this site has only one function. Can you guess what that is?
The only thing you can do on this site is send them money – money to buy a membership or money as a donation.
One fine day, Mister Cabbage discovered it was far more profitable to get people to send money as a donation that to buy something.
When you get money as a donation, you don’t have to give anything in return. So much more profitable than giving them a membership.
Even though a membership is just a printed page, it’s so much more profitable to send nothing than it is to send a printed page.

I’d guess Mister CORN COB plans to initiate an annual holiday to celebrate the day he had that brilliant flash of an idea and
realized that “money for nothing” is so much more profitable than “money for something”.
He never stops talking about that day. You’d think he figures that discovery was more important then Columbus discovering America.

Skyler, I don’t think that trolling is necessarily harmless, based on very long-term observation of the scene. It can end up playing into Scientology’s hands, or even backfiring on the trollers – I’d suggest looking up the cases of Keith Henson and Grady Ward, both of whom are literally still paying for it.

You have an admirable enthusiasm of sorts, and I’d suggest putting it to constructive use. For example, on the less glamorous side, there’s the work people do stamping out Scientology’s attempts to recruit through deceptive craigslist ads. A bit more in the limelight, it helps a lot when people can track down and post contact information for the unfortunate outside individuals and organizations who show up in some of Scientology’s promo as having been co-opted by front groups – as part of an effort to inform them, respectfully, that they’re just being used for propaganda purposes, by very unsavory entities.

Thank you PeaceMaker. I must agree that trolling can be dangerous. Even when people think they can have some fun wasting the time of cults that try to do the same sort of thing themselves, someone who trolls can never be absolutely certain they are perfectly safe.

It may be prudent for me to have some second thoughts about trolling. After all, I’m not playing with some harmless minnow here. I’ve been thinking about poking a Great White with a stick and you know the common saying about what happens when someone pokes a bear with a stick. They can often wind up getting the bear and the its teeth.

Maybe it would be best for me to reconsider this entire adventure and just cool my jets – so to speak. Thank you for looking out for me.

Important Quotes

If the org slumps during this transition period, don't engage in "fund raising"
or "selling postcards" or borrowing money. Just make more income with Scientology.
L Ron Hubbard From HCOPL URGENT ORG PROGRAMMING

"We own a tremendous amount of property. We own a tremendous amount of material and so forth, and it keeps growing.
But that’s not important. When buildings get important to us, for God sakes, some of you born revolutionists will you please blow up central headquarters".
L Ron Hubbard Lecture 31 Dec 1960

"Personal integrity is knowing what you know. What you know is what you know and to have the courage to know and say what you have observed".- LRH from Personal Integrity

"It is necessary to happiness of man, that he be mentally faithful to himself. Infidelity does not consist in believing, or in disbelieving; it consists of professing to believe what he does not believe." Thomas Paine

“Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter.” - Martin Luther King

“The ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands in moments of comfort and convenience, but where he stands at times of challenge and controversy.” - Martin Luther King

“There comes a time when silence is betrayal.” - Martin Luther King Jr.

“Communication is the universal solvent” - L Ron Hubbard

“When men yield up the privilege of thinking, the last shadow of liberty quits the horizon.” Thomas Paine

"Never be afraid to raise your voice for honesty and truth and compassion against injustice and lying and greed. If people all over the world would do this, it would change the earth." William Faulkner

"The ultimate authority must always rest with the individual's own reason and critical analysis." Dalai Lama