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Discussion (64) ¬

I’m just saying, I wouldn’t mind an open-world Revenant game about dealing with a rogues’ gallery amidst some kind of super-crisis. Especially since he actually talks with and listens to his support people and sidekick when they’ve got a good idea, can delegate problem-solving, and hasn’t been slowly turning into Iron Man.

The Revenant is what Batman would have been if you didn’t slap a broody complex and inability to change… or loss his skills and just merely punches other people. In fact the Revenant has become the peek of super heroes as they had managed to achieve the one power that so many try to achieve…

The Revenant’s super power… IS BEING THE REVENANT because that’s the only super power he needs!

I love the idea that you’d have a mulittasking challenge, a basic “press buttons to fight while selecting chat options against a delay timer.” Let the buttons get too stale and you get punched, choose the wrong options or don’t talk for too long and you’ll have trouble resolving the conflict on the other end of the line.

No matter how much they deplore his interference in things they think unpowered individuals should stay out of, on some level, those supers would probably do well to remember that the age-old question, “Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?” (“Who watches the watchers themselves), has an answer in the Revenant.

“Night, forever. But within it, a city, shadowy and only real in certain ways.
The entity cowered in its alley, where the mist was rising. This could not have happened!
Yet it had. The streets had filled with… things. Animals! Birds! Changing shape! Screaming and yelling! And, above it all, higher than the rooftops, a lamb rocking back and forth in great slow motions, thundering over the cobbles…
And then bars had come down, slamming down, and the entity had been thrown back.
But it had been so close! It had saved the creature, it was getting through, it was beginning to have control… and now this…
In the darkness of the inner city, above the rustle of the never-ending rain, it heard the sound of boots approaching.
A shape appeared in the mist.
It drew nearer.
Water cascaded off a metal helmet and an oiled leather cloak as the figure stopped and, entirely unconcerned, cupped its had in front of its face and lit a cigar.
Then the match was dropped on the cobbles, where it hissed out, and the figure said: “What are you?”
The entity stirred, like an old fish in a deep pool. It was too tired to flee.
“I am the Summoning Dark.” It was not, in fact, a sound, but had it been, it would have been a hiss. “Who are you?”
“I am the Watchman.”
“They would have killed his family!” The darkness lunged, and met resistance. “Think of the deaths they have caused! Who are you to stop me?”
“He created me. Quis custodiet ipsos custodes? Who watches the watchmen? Me. I watch him. Always. You will not force him to murder for you.”
“What kind of human creates his own policeman?”
“One who fears the dark.”
“And so he should,” said the entity, with satisfaction.
“Indeed. But I think you misunderstand. I am not here to keep the darkness out. I am here to keep it in.” There was a clink of metal as the shadowy watchman lifted a dark lantern and opened its little door. Orange light cut through the blackness. “Call me… the Guarding Dark. Imagine how strong I must be.”
The Summoning Dark backed desperately into the alley, but the light followed it, burning it.
“And now,” said the watchman, “get out of town.”

Joking aside, circular watch-parties are how most checks and balances work in reality. It was a deliberate set-up in the USA’s Constitution that three “co-equal” branches would all want to jealously guard their power and thus watch the others to keep them in line, bucket-of-crabs style. (I do not propose we discuss how well that has worked out; I merely point out that it was the design intent.)

In more topical discussion, it’s canon in at least the DCAU that the Batman has specific plans to take down each and every member of the Justice League in the event they turn evil. Batman’s plan to take down the Batman if he turns evil is…the Justice League. (That is either very egotistical, or merely the most practical way he can keep evil!Batman from undermining the plan the moment he turns evil.)

Anybody else think that it was a little awkward for the Reviant to ask Tyler if his parents are still talking about him in the middle of the conversation? I mean not awkward like bad writing, just awkward in the sense that it flowed oddly with the rest of the sceane. It sort of makes me think that it’s set up for something that will happen later. Like maybe Tylers parents are talking about the Reviant more than normal because they have noticed that he has a little Reviant like hero following him around, and they want to learn the identity of this little hero so they can stop the Reviant from teaching him all the “evil” ways of non-powered crime fighting. This of course would lead to them discovering that their son is an awsome hero in his own right and to them being proud that their son is following in thier footsteps to become a formidable hero powers or no powers. But that of course would require Ultima and Soverign to be at least mildly clever enough to put the peices together and willing enough to set aside thier “no non-powered heros” biases for thier son, and I’m not sure if I give them enough credit for that.

Last we saw of Ultima, he was doing a background check on Tyler.
Depending on how good the Earth Defense League’s intel is, he may have found information linking the stranger living in their supply closet with the vigilante wanted in thirty three states.

The subsequent discussion about the suspicious elements in the Earth Defense League Headquarters may account for Tyler’s “maybe”, since I don’t think Tyler’s parents actually bothered to talk with him since Issue 37.

I doubt he or the EDL would make that connection. The greatest flaw of supers and a running theme in this comic is how people miss the obvious even when it’s right in front of them. Whatever background check he runs on Tyler is going to return, at most, that he’s the son he’d forgotten he has- a fact which he’ll likely forget in the next second afterwards. And the EDL is certainly not going have anything tying him to the Revenant since only Tyler’s teachers, Cecil, and his mentor know he’s Moon Shadow to begin with.

Let’s recap. Brian was caught spying for Headmaster of the Praetorian Academy. The Revenant says he “spoke with” Brian about it. Tyler immediately wants to know “Is he okay?”

Why wouldn’t Brian be okay? Well… y’know… this is the REVENANT. After he has dealt with someone who did something wrong, they are seldom okay. Or, at least, that’s his reputation with people like Tyler’s parents, and he is glad to know they still think that way.

That was my initial read, too, but thinking about the character asking it… kids don’t quite use that level of indirection, as a general rule. It’s a level of sophistication of speech that usually evolves with puberty as kids learn to be more subtle while trying to grapple with less concrete concepts and trying to politick amongst themselves. (Grade-school “politics” tend to be pretty transparent.)

So from Tyler, “Is he okay?” would be about actual well-being. If he were worried about him being in the group, he’d probably have asked something more along the lines of, “Is he going to turn traitor?” or “So we have to kick him out?”

The Revenant is basically Batman. Batman is known by other supers for his brutal and terrifying methods. Bryan did something wrong and was caught by the Revenant. Where the Rev has Bats’ reputation, then it stands that Tyler would have heard of how Rev (supposedly) deals with criminals and other evildoers and would wonder if it’s true, particularly when it comes to Brian.

Yes, the Revenant’s reputation is well earned given that he is known to hand out sound thrashings, and with access to Argonite is completely capable of giving Brain one should he choose to do so.

The question is where would Tyler have heard about the Revenant’s reputation?
Tyler’s “maybe” implies that he heard about it from his parents, but they haven’t communicated with each other since Toby appeared.
The staff at PS238 trusts the Revenant’s judgement enough to put Principal Cranston under house arrest rather than outright eliminate him.

He probably heard it second-hand through Toby. Or, Toby talked him into coming back home for something and he overheard it then (after all, the Powers’ background check on Tyler should have been completed by now, so they’d have no reason to keep him out as long as he wore a “Visitor – Escort Required” badge at all times).

They have expressed distaste for the Revenant, both over his lack of powers and the methods he uses (violence and terror).

Revenant has “spoken to” someone “behaving badly”.

Tyler’s initial assumption is that Revenant used the “typical Revenant” methods as described by Tyler’s Parents. Based on Ultima’s and Sovereign’s portrayal of the Revenant, Tyler’s inference is that Brian most likely was beaten rather seriously or experienced pants-wetting fear. Hence, Tyler asks if Brian is alright (Tyler having pretty decent empathy and social interaction ability).

Revenant’s response is both an implied judgement of Tyler’s parents and an “honesty check with Tyler.

Tyler, by answering honestly, both passes the test is is thereby given an important lesson that Revenant’s reputation is a significant advantage, reinforcing with Tyler that Tyler’s own reputation should also be carefully cultivated.

Tyler, by answering honestly, both passes the test AND is thereby given an important lesson that Revenant’s reputation is a significant advantage, reinforcing with Tyler that Tyler’s own reputation should also be carefully cultivated.

You know, I think it is quite telling that we only have SEEN Ultima’s reactions lately.

Though I am not making excuses for either of them, Sovereign seemed to be the more perceptive and caring of the two to me. Hence, while I want to thump Ultima’s head (and probs die) I am still on the fence exactly HOW bad a parent she is.

Sovereign and Ultimate have shown the same kind of personality and have the same beliefs about destiny. They’re two peas in a pod. You’re right in that we’ve only seen Ultima lately, but there’s no indication she’s a fairer parent than he is. In fact, if she is at least a little bit more perceptive and caring, why would Tyler be sleeping in the broom closet to begin with?

It seems to me (granted, I might be wrong) that for example back with the Rainmaker, SHE realized the implications of what the pilot said, while Ultima was too busy being high on beating-delivery.
Then when Toby stopped his first Super-villian, SHE realized that they hadn’t heard anything from PS238 over his absense, which Ultima only seemed to realize when she pointed it out.
When meeting Ty-Tob and 84 on the street, SHE checked how Ty-Tob felt (granted, with the which if he got superpowers) while Ultima was teasing 84…

As said, I might read too much into it, but those things make me thing she is more perceptive and caring than her husband.

The problem being is that in the first case, what the pilot said was technically true in that the kidnapper of the Rainmaker kids was with them at the time and that the Revenant and Moon Shadow were working with him- to get the kids back to PS238, that is. The pilot and his fellow Praetorians themselves were trying to kidnap them too. So, yes, she’s more perceptive and receptive, but in a bad way: she fell for the pilot’s ploy. (To be fair, things weren’t clear to parties outside of the school bus the kids, Rainmaker, and Revenant were in).

More importantly, in the second and third cases you mentioned, the Powers didn’t know that they were hanging out with their son’s clone. They thought he was Tyler (3rd case) and that he had gained super powers (2nd). Naturally, they were focused on him. But now, were they know they have two sons and only one of which has powers, their world is all about the metahuman one and not the original ordinary one.

Besides, there’s the fact that Sovereign also forgets that Tyler can’t fly or is just plain ol’ inconsiderate of his lack of powers (03092012), and that she, like her husband, doesn’t even spend time with him (06042012).

Whatever the case, even if she is more perceptive than her husband, she’s still an inconsiderately elitist and horrible parent.

In all honesty, parents favoring one kid over the other happens in real life and sucks enough but, to these two, their non-powered kid practically doesn’t even exist!

And I am not giving those things as excuses for her, she still IS a pretty crappy parent. But I am not going to put her entirely on Ultima’s level of Crappiness until I have actually SEEN her in the comic.

In a way, there is a parallel here between Tyler and Zodon. Neither of their parents were able to deal with the fact that their son was fundamentally different from themselves. So Zodon’s parents had to be sent to a universe where there were no superpowered entities in order for them to become happy. Once there, they basically convinced themselves that their memories of superpowered Zodon had been some sort of hallucination, and focussed on being good parents to ‘normal’ (though still very intelligent) Zodon. Like Zodon’s parents, Ultima finds himself forgetting the son he can’t deal with, and focussing on the son (Toby) that he can relate to.

To be fair to Zodon’s parents, they a) seem to be good people who genuinely care about and for “their” (new) Zodon (who names their kid that? Seriously! …maybe it’s an online monicker he’s adopted IRL in that universe), and b) were subjected to brainwashing technology while “our” Zodon transported them to the new world.

And they definitely are way better parents than “their” (new) Zodon’s real/old ones were; they didn’t try to run off with his money and abandon him! (That was pretty stupid, too; if you’ve got a kid raking in millions, you keep him around and spend it like it’s yours, if you’re a competent but jerk of a parent. Because he’ll keep earning. And you can pay a babysitter or nanny to take over responsibility for him while you squander his wealth. You do not run off with the golden egg and leave the goose that lays it behind!)

And, given non-super Zodon’s reaction to “our” Zodon telling him what happened…he deeply loves these parents and appreciates them. “You gave me your parents!” while in tears and HUGGING “our” Zodon in gratitude is one of the most heart-warming and tear-jerking scenes this comic has, in my opinion.

I kind-of hope we see more of alt-verse Zodon. He’s nearly meta-level intellect in a world where meta-tech doesn’t seem to work, as-is. And he’s an interesting character in his own right.

My bet is that Moon Shadow’s popularity is going to positively affect how the other super-kids look at 84’s group. I’m sure they look up to him more than they’re irked by being left out by 84*. I’m sure their line of though is going to be along the lines of, “If Moon Shadow joined them, then they can’t be that bad.”

That wasn’t just a video game. That was an attempt to defuse a city-obliterating bomb set by a toy-themed supervillain (in another call on the same day he was fighting teddy-bear battle-robots, and the game had a countdown to detonation displayed on it).

It occurs to me that Tyler’s parents, in particular, might have reason to be worried about the Revenant, because they presumably know by now that he has an Argonite crystal, which de-powers any F.I.S.S. (and which is presumably would make it credible that he might harm Brian).

The Powers’ haven’t demonstrated any abilities outside of the F.I.S.S. set, have they?

Besides, from what we’ve seen, only Atlas escapes the derision that haunts most FISS. If they were FISS, they’d be included in the Infinite Vanguard (they’d definitely have appeared in the current story, being named characters directly involved with one of the comic’s main protagonists).

Just being FISS wouldn’t get them included in the Infinite Vanguard, particularly when they’ve their own Super-team that they apparently founded and run with their base on the Moon so they can look down on all the non-powered humans. You’d have to actually make the effort to join the team and be accepted even if you are a FISS (or a non-FISS for that matter), doubtful that Tyler’s parents would do something like that when they seem elitist enough to probably look down on FISS as well (although it’s possible that they’re totally ‘us vs them’ so while being prejudiced would only extend it towards non-powered humans and treat FISS just as decently as they’d treat any other super).