Hopefully it works out for them but this doesn't look like a successful operation to me.

Why?

Well this is heroine we're talking about. Heroine is an addictive drug. With 5 minutes of research I have already found out that there have been 25,310 drug offenses in Norway alone. Meaning that a lot of people have either taken or resold drugs illegally. By reselling they are spreading drugs to others. By taking they are making themselves addicted. This addiction can make them irrational and since it is common knowledge that illegal drugs are really overpriced this means that at some point people are going to have to resort to theft. Stealing heroin will be what they do and even if the addiction doesn't make them irrational the sentence lengths are ridiculously short. Mass murderers have been sentenced to 21 years in prison (as the maximum)!

Hopefully it works out for them but this doesn't look like a successful operation to me.

Why?

Well this is heroine we're talking about. Heroine is an addictive drug. With 5 minutes of research I have already found out that there have been 25,310 drug offenses in Norway alone. Meaning that a lot of people have either taken or resold drugs illegally.

Did you read the article, because if you have you'd realize that the medical heroine program is a program designed to reduce drug addiction rates by weaning addicts off heroine through gradually smaller, legal, medically administered doses. You'd also realize that sterile medical environments for shooting up will be safer than dirty, at-home environments. It would also undercut the violent drug trade, by allowing addicts to get free or low cost heroine from the government, rather than shady dealers.

Live Long and Prosper

I'm a Bish.

"Twilight isn't just about obtuse metaphors between cannibalism and premarital sex, it also teaches us the futility of hope." - Raisor

Hopefully it works out for them but this doesn't look like a successful operation to me.

Why?

Well this is heroine we're talking about. Heroine is an addictive drug. With 5 minutes of research I have already found out that there have been 25,310 drug offenses in Norway alone. Meaning that a lot of people have either taken or resold drugs illegally.

Did you read the article, because if you have you'd realize that the medical heroine program is a program designed to reduce drug addiction rates by weaning addicts off heroine through gradually smaller, legal, medically administered doses. You'd also realize that sterile medical environments for shooting up will be safer than dirty, at-home environments. It would also undercut the violent drug trade, by allowing addicts to get free or low cost heroine from the government, rather than shady dealers.

You've misunderstood my point. Addicts are used to high quantities. Low amounts will not be sufficient and addictions have been described as meaning that they can never be satisfied with what they've got. A small amount may stop their addictions in the long term but in the short term this will not be enough and the drug crime statistics prove that theft of this heroin is not unlikely. Due to this the small doses will not work because they will still be taking high doses and this will fail in both the short and long term because of this.

Hopefully it works out for them but this doesn't look like a successful operation to me.

Why?

Well this is heroine we're talking about. Heroine is an addictive drug. With 5 minutes of research I have already found out that there have been 25,310 drug offenses in Norway alone. Meaning that a lot of people have either taken or resold drugs illegally.

Did you read the article, because if you have you'd realize that the medical heroine program is a program designed to reduce drug addiction rates by weaning addicts off heroine through gradually smaller, legal, medically administered doses. You'd also realize that sterile medical environments for shooting up will be safer than dirty, at-home environments. It would also undercut the violent drug trade, by allowing addicts to get free or low cost heroine from the government, rather than shady dealers.

You've misunderstood my point. Addicts are used to high quantities. Low amounts will not be sufficient and addictions have been described as meaning that they can never be satisfied with what they've got.

That's why you wean them off it--it is a gradual process. Cigarette addicts, for example, can quit by gradually smoking less and less (reducing withdrawal symptoms), until they can finally stop altogether.

A small amount may stop their addictions in the long term but in the short term this will not be enough and the drug crime statistics prove that theft of this heroin is not unlikely.

Theft from government facilities isn't exactly a big deal in Norway, dude. Norway is like, pretty much crime free compared to most other places. Plus, you're overlooking the other benefits to the program which I outlined.

Live Long and Prosper

I'm a Bish.

"Twilight isn't just about obtuse metaphors between cannibalism and premarital sex, it also teaches us the futility of hope." - Raisor

Hopefully it works out for them but this doesn't look like a successful operation to me.

Why?

Well this is heroine we're talking about. Heroine is an addictive drug. With 5 minutes of research I have already found out that there have been 25,310 drug offenses in Norway alone. Meaning that a lot of people have either taken or resold drugs illegally.

Did you read the article, because if you have you'd realize that the medical heroine program is a program designed to reduce drug addiction rates by weaning addicts off heroine through gradually smaller, legal, medically administered doses. You'd also realize that sterile medical environments for shooting up will be safer than dirty, at-home environments. It would also undercut the violent drug trade, by allowing addicts to get free or low cost heroine from the government, rather than shady dealers.

You've misunderstood my point. Addicts are used to high quantities. Low amounts will not be sufficient and addictions have been described as meaning that they can never be satisfied with what they've got.

That's why you wean them off it--it is a gradual process. Cigarette addicts, for example, can quit by gradually smoking less and less (reducing withdrawal symptoms), until they can finally stop altogether.

Who said that these people want to quit?

A small amount may stop their addictions in the long term but in the short term this will not be enough and the drug crime statistics prove that theft of this heroin is not unlikely.

Theft from government facilities isn't exactly a big deal in Norway, dude. Norway is like, pretty much crime free compared to most other places. Plus, you're overlooking the other benefits to the program which I outlined.

The only other benefits were in regards to violent drug trade and in regards to questionable drug purity. I'm too busy to individually assess these points however I recommend reading the debate between FT and DK because these arguments are brought up by fourtrouble and Donald Keller had strong rebuttals.

At 11/29/2015 10:16:41 PM, bsh1 wrote:That's why you wean them off it--it is a gradual process. Cigarette addicts, for example, can quit by gradually smoking less and less (reducing withdrawal symptoms), until they can finally stop altogether.

Who said that these people want to quit?

It doesn't really matter. Norway has an interest in keeping its citizens alive and healthy.

Theft from government facilities isn't exactly a big deal in Norway, dude. Norway is like, pretty much crime free compared to most other places. Plus, you're overlooking the other benefits to the program which I outlined.

The only other benefits were in regards to violent drug trade and in regards to questionable drug purity. I'm too busy to individually assess these points however I recommend reading the debate between FT and DK because these arguments are brought up by fourtrouble and Donald Keller had strong rebuttals.

Yeah, and, as much as I like DK, he's objectively wrong on this issue.

Live Long and Prosper

I'm a Bish.

"Twilight isn't just about obtuse metaphors between cannibalism and premarital sex, it also teaches us the futility of hope." - Raisor

At 11/29/2015 10:16:41 PM, bsh1 wrote:That's why you wean them off it--it is a gradual process. Cigarette addicts, for example, can quit by gradually smoking less and less (reducing withdrawal symptoms), until they can finally stop altogether.

Who said that these people want to quit?

It doesn't really matter. Norway has an interest in keeping its citizens alive and healthy.

You are missing the point again. If people don't want to quit then why should they allow themselves to be restricted by these small quantities? They could easily take the government heroin and then get some more illegally to attempt to adequately satisfy their addiction. If they have no interest in getting rid of their addiction or reducing thei heroin intake then why should they follow the governments rules? They've already broken the law by obtaining heroine previously. What makes you think that they won't still do this.

Theft from government facilities isn't exactly a big deal in Norway, dude. Norway is like, pretty much crime free compared to most other places. Plus, you're overlooking the other benefits to the program which I outlined.

The only other benefits were in regards to violent drug trade and in regards to questionable drug purity. I'm too busy to individually assess these points however I recommend reading the debate between FT and DK because these arguments are brought up by fourtrouble and Donald Keller had strong rebuttals.

Yeah, and, as much as I like DK, he's objectively wrong on this issue.

At 11/29/2015 10:16:41 PM, bsh1 wrote:That's why you wean them off it--it is a gradual process. Cigarette addicts, for example, can quit by gradually smoking less and less (reducing withdrawal symptoms), until they can finally stop altogether.

Who said that these people want to quit?

It doesn't really matter. Norway has an interest in keeping its citizens alive and healthy.

You are missing the point again. If people don't want to quit then why should they allow themselves to be restricted by these small quantities?

I think most addicts want to quit, they just can't. But, the Norwegian government can easily compel them to submit, and could commit them to a medical institution to prevent them from accessing other sources.

Yeah, and, as much as I like DK, he's objectively wrong on this issue.

Did you read the debate?

I did. It's not convincing.

Live Long and Prosper

I'm a Bish.

"Twilight isn't just about obtuse metaphors between cannibalism and premarital sex, it also teaches us the futility of hope." - Raisor

At 11/29/2015 10:16:41 PM, bsh1 wrote:That's why you wean them off it--it is a gradual process. Cigarette addicts, for example, can quit by gradually smoking less and less (reducing withdrawal symptoms), until they can finally stop altogether.

Who said that these people want to quit?

It doesn't really matter. Norway has an interest in keeping its citizens alive and healthy.

You are missing the point again. If people don't want to quit then why should they allow themselves to be restricted by these small quantities?

I think most addicts want to quit, they just can't. But, the Norwegian government can easily compel them to submit, and could commit them to a medical institution to prevent them from accessing other sources.

The main problem here is that we need a common understanding of the term addicts. We are talking about people that cannot stop themselves from wanting drugs to the point that they need drugs. Even if they want to stop this doesn't mean that there addiction won't stop them from resorting to illegal manners in order to obtain higher drug quantities.

Yeah, and, as much as I like DK, he's objectively wrong on this issue.

At 11/29/2015 10:51:39 PM, Balacafa wrote:The main problem here is that we need a common understanding of the term addicts. We are talking about people that cannot stop themselves from wanting drugs to the point that they need drugs. Even if they want to stop this doesn't mean that there addiction won't stop them from resorting to illegal manners in order to obtain higher drug quantities.

Only if they don't get a fix. That's what Norway is doing: giving the fixes, but at gradually smaller levels.

In comparison to the arguments presented by FT it was.

Perhaps, but not in a broader sense.

Live Long and Prosper

I'm a Bish.

"Twilight isn't just about obtuse metaphors between cannibalism and premarital sex, it also teaches us the futility of hope." - Raisor

At 11/29/2015 10:51:39 PM, Balacafa wrote:The main problem here is that we need a common understanding of the term addicts. We are talking about people that cannot stop themselves from wanting drugs to the point that they need drugs. Even if they want to stop this doesn't mean that there addiction won't stop them from resorting to illegal manners in order to obtain higher drug quantities.

Only if they don't get a fix. That's what Norway is doing: giving the fixes, but at gradually smaller levels.

I feel like I'm repeating myself. They won't necessarily accept what the Norwegian government are offering due to their drug cravings.

In comparison to the arguments presented by FT it was.

Perhaps, but not in a broader sense.

I thought that FT's arguments were a good reflection upon the pro side of the drug legalisation debate. I didn't feel like that there was much more to say in terms of his arguments besides a bit more explanation on certain points.

At 11/29/2015 10:51:39 PM, Balacafa wrote:The main problem here is that we need a common understanding of the term addicts. We are talking about people that cannot stop themselves from wanting drugs to the point that they need drugs. Even if they want to stop this doesn't mean that there addiction won't stop them from resorting to illegal manners in order to obtain higher drug quantities.

Only if they don't get a fix. That's what Norway is doing: giving the fixes, but at gradually smaller levels.

I feel like I'm repeating myself. They won't necessarily accept what the Norwegian government are offering due to their drug cravings.

I don't think you understood what I said.

In comparison to the arguments presented by FT it was.

Perhaps, but not in a broader sense.

I thought that FT's arguments were a good reflection upon the pro side of the drug legalisation debate. I didn't feel like that there was much more to say in terms of his arguments besides a bit more explanation on certain points.

Perhaps I will go over the points later, in detail, here.

Live Long and Prosper

I'm a Bish.

"Twilight isn't just about obtuse metaphors between cannibalism and premarital sex, it also teaches us the futility of hope." - Raisor

At 11/29/2015 10:51:39 PM, Balacafa wrote:The main problem here is that we need a common understanding of the term addicts. We are talking about people that cannot stop themselves from wanting drugs to the point that they need drugs. Even if they want to stop this doesn't mean that there addiction won't stop them from resorting to illegal manners in order to obtain higher drug quantities.

Only if they don't get a fix. That's what Norway is doing: giving the fixes, but at gradually smaller levels.

I feel like I'm repeating myself. They won't necessarily accept what the Norwegian government are offering due to their drug cravings.

I don't think you understood what I said.

There's no point in you just saying that. If I didn't understand what you said then explain time what you meant by what you said as oppose to my interpretation.

In comparison to the arguments presented by FT it was.

Perhaps, but not in a broader sense.

I thought that FT's arguments were a good reflection upon the pro side of the drug legalisation debate. I didn't feel like that there was much more to say in terms of his arguments besides a bit more explanation on certain points.

At 11/29/2015 10:51:39 PM, Balacafa wrote:The main problem here is that we need a common understanding of the term addicts. We are talking about people that cannot stop themselves from wanting drugs to the point that they need drugs. Even if they want to stop this doesn't mean that there addiction won't stop them from resorting to illegal manners in order to obtain higher drug quantities.

Only if they don't get a fix. That's what Norway is doing: giving the fixes, but at gradually smaller levels.

I feel like I'm repeating myself. They won't necessarily accept what the Norwegian government are offering due to their drug cravings.

I don't think you understood what I said.

There's no point in you just saying that. If I didn't understand what you said then explain time what you meant by what you said as oppose to my interpretation.

I was attempting to encourage you to re-read. I mean that sure, the addicts need a fix, but all they need is one that holds off the cravings. If you gradually reduce the doses, and with a little willpower, they can all quit or drastically reduce their consumption.

Live Long and Prosper

I'm a Bish.

"Twilight isn't just about obtuse metaphors between cannibalism and premarital sex, it also teaches us the futility of hope." - Raisor

At 11/29/2015 10:51:39 PM, Balacafa wrote:The main problem here is that we need a common understanding of the term addicts. We are talking about people that cannot stop themselves from wanting drugs to the point that they need drugs. Even if they want to stop this doesn't mean that there addiction won't stop them from resorting to illegal manners in order to obtain higher drug quantities.

Only if they don't get a fix. That's what Norway is doing: giving the fixes, but at gradually smaller levels.

I feel like I'm repeating myself. They won't necessarily accept what the Norwegian government are offering due to their drug cravings.

I don't think you understood what I said.

There's no point in you just saying that. If I didn't understand what you said then explain time what you meant by what you said as oppose to my interpretation.

I was attempting to encourage you to re-read. I mean that sure, the addicts need a fix, but all they need is one that holds off the cravings. If you gradually reduce the doses, and with a little willpower, they can all quit or drastically reduce their consumption.

If you reduce their doses then there is still nothing stopping them from getting more drugs illegally to satisfy their addiction. They will only quit if youbmonitorbtj completely in order to make sure that they dot attempt to illegally obtain drugs. This is fine on an individual scale but a legalisation to the whole country will make it extremely difficult and expensive to do this properly.

At 11/29/2015 10:51:39 PM, Balacafa wrote:The main problem here is that we need a common understanding of the term addicts. We are talking about people that cannot stop themselves from wanting drugs to the point that they need drugs. Even if they want to stop this doesn't mean that there addiction won't stop them from resorting to illegal manners in order to obtain higher drug quantities.

Only if they don't get a fix. That's what Norway is doing: giving the fixes, but at gradually smaller levels.

I feel like I'm repeating myself. They won't necessarily accept what the Norwegian government are offering due to their drug cravings.

I don't think you understood what I said.

There's no point in you just saying that. If I didn't understand what you said then explain time what you meant by what you said as oppose to my interpretation.

I was attempting to encourage you to re-read. I mean that sure, the addicts need a fix, but all they need is one that holds off the cravings. If you gradually reduce the doses, and with a little willpower, they can all quit or drastically reduce their consumption.

If you reduce their doses then there is still nothing stopping them from getting more drugs illegally to satisfy their addiction.

That's the point: by weaning them off it, you satisfy and reduce their cravings.

Live Long and Prosper

I'm a Bish.

"Twilight isn't just about obtuse metaphors between cannibalism and premarital sex, it also teaches us the futility of hope." - Raisor

At 11/29/2015 10:51:39 PM, Balacafa wrote:The main problem here is that we need a common understanding of the term addicts. We are talking about people that cannot stop themselves from wanting drugs to the point that they need drugs. Even if they want to stop this doesn't mean that there addiction won't stop them from resorting to illegal manners in order to obtain higher drug quantities.

Only if they don't get a fix. That's what Norway is doing: giving the fixes, but at gradually smaller levels.

I feel like I'm repeating myself. They won't necessarily accept what the Norwegian government are offering due to their drug cravings.

I don't think you understood what I said.

There's no point in you just saying that. If I didn't understand what you said then explain time what you meant by what you said as oppose to my interpretation.

I was attempting to encourage you to re-read. I mean that sure, the addicts need a fix, but all they need is one that holds off the cravings. If you gradually reduce the doses, and with a little willpower, they can all quit or drastically reduce their consumption.

If you reduce their doses then there is still nothing stopping them from getting more drugs illegally to satisfy their addiction.

That's the point: by weaning them off it, you satisfy and reduce their cravings.