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I really do hate to admit it. I really do. Jub has some made a couple good points here. I have been away from this thread for a while. As have many people I see.

It is important for us to ask those questions. I don't really see how it is strictly the Bellingers business. The investment was put up for a series meant for the players. If they are not going to run the Oregon Series anymore how can they justify keeping all the supplies? If we had access to this equipment to pick up right where we left off than none of this would have probably happened.

I for one am saddened we are LOSING the infrastructure of the Oregon Series. It no doubt was a massive undertaking. Only those individuals that have full time committment to Disc Golf could have done this.

I am very grateful for all the Bellingers have done. In no way am I trying to downplay all that has gone on for the past 8 years. It just seems a bit strange to me on how they can simply walk away after all this time....Keep the organizational supplies that WAS the Oregon Series(saying it is for running future events, not the OR Series tho....).....without anyone asking any questions.....Then when someone brings up these points THEY are the ones being criticized.....? It is all detrimental to the sport.

Yes, Jub is typically a bit eccentric. You can't detour from the fact that just because he is a WA player that excludes him from our conversations. WE ARE ALL A DISC GOLF FAMILY. Jub may be the uncle no one calls on Holidays but we are a family nevertheless. He can sit back and bitch about OR Disc Golf all he wants. That's his right. All we can do is kill 'em with kindness. When we engage this negativity though is when "they" win. It's a power struggle.

Questions are a healthy way of gathering information on a particular subject. If these questions were to be answered than this could all have gone a more positive direction.

We are moving toward the future but this should not be without looking at the past and knowing where we came from. Somehow, Someway, Someone, is going to twist this post into a negative attack at the Bellingers. This is not the case. We are merely asking them as the exiting coordinators where we are as an Organization. Like any new management would. When you buy a company you typically get to look at their books....... When you buy a car don't you wanna look under the hood or kick the tires a couple times?

I for one, as an 8 year member of the Oregon Series, would love to have this
information become transparent.

We are asking eachother where do we go from here, correct? The future!!! It will bring with it the truth. Time will either promote or expose everything.

I believe that this is correct. I don't mean to answer for Keith but I believe this is the only question worth answering.

I believe that this would be between Full Sail and the Bellingers. How would it be YOUR business?

I believe that this would be between Full Sail and the Bellingers. How would it be YOUR business?

I believe that this would be between Full Sail and the Bellingers. How would it be YOUR business?

I believe that this would be between Full Sail and the Bellingers. How would it be YOUR business?

I believe that this would be between Full Sail and the Bellingers. How would it be YOUR business?

I believe that this would be between Full Sail and the Bellingers. How would it be YOUR business?

Seriously... was it YOUR money that bought this stuff? If not, guess what Jub? It is none of your damned business and I hope no one ever attempts to answer these questions for you any broader than I have.

Go golf. Get a lobotomy. Have a cup of tea. Whatever it takes for you to just drop this. The Bellingers are gone. You are going to have to find a new enemy now. Maybe if you are lucky this time, you will find one who gives a damn about anything you might have to say.

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When you buy a company you typically get to look at their books....... When you buy a car don't you wanna look under the hood or kick the tires a couple times?

I didn't realize that YOU were buying the Oregon Series! Sweet! How much are you paying to buy the Oregon Series? Where are YOUR tax returns? I'd like to see your books! What's that? Don't want your personal information out on the web for all to see and bitch about? Jub will be on your ass from now until eternity until you cough up those books!

Really...

Hath this whole world been mired in madness?
Remain ye men of faculty complete,
Of full arithmetic and prudence fair,
Attending to our noble bond and contract?
Or does here stand the last remaining man
To give a fig for rules and order yet,
No noble savage, but a stave unbroken
Who loves the law and bids it no misdeed.
Iíll not be bent to lawlessness. Mark it nought, if we be men of honour.

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WOW WOW WOW WOW WOW WOW WOW WOW WOW WOW WOW WOW SPAM SPAM SPAM SPAM LMAO LMAO LMAO LMAO HEY YOUR MISSING THE WHOLE POINT WE LOVE PLAYING DISC GOLF SO LETS DO THIS ENOUGH WITH THE HE SAID SHE SAID BULL SHIT COME ON PEOPLE GROW UP

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If that's not your point, fine. Then why bring up a bogus argument like that in the first place? There were other things in your post that I disagree with too, but that was the most blatant and I couldn't let it pass.

I'm still not clear on the perception that as a player in the Oregon Series you are part of 'The Organization'. It seems to me that the players are the clients of 'The Organization' and unless you helped run the tourneys you are not part of 'The Organization'.

I, too, have played DG for the last 12 years or so. 8 years ago you could travel to another city and show up Saturday morning to pay and get in a tourney. Today we have people frothing at the mouth wondering when sign-up starts so that they don't get shut out in the mad rush to pre-register. I wonder why that is...

Hath this whole world been mired in madness?
Remain ye men of faculty complete,
Of full arithmetic and prudence fair,
Attending to our noble bond and contract?
Or does here stand the last remaining man
To give a fig for rules and order yet,
No noble savage, but a stave unbroken
Who loves the law and bids it no misdeed.
Iíll not be bent to lawlessness. Mark it nought, if we be men of honour.

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I didn't realize that YOU were buying the Oregon Series! Sweet! How much are you paying to buy the Oregon Series? Where are YOUR tax returns? I'd like to see your books! What's that? Don't want your personal information out on the web for all to see and bitch about? Jub will be on your ass from now until eternity until you cough up those books!

Really...

Jordy You got the point AS a business only certain people have the rights to look at your books. As you know if they are publicly held and or traded they must show different levels of books to different type of people. Stock holders get a nice distilled version of whats going on. Like Andrew said If you are buying them Then you have the right to see the complete books. If you ask me the ORE. series was the perfect business model for running an event or series for profit.

If you are a non profit then anyone who contributes to you has the right to see what going on. My problem with the series is a matter of perception. That they started the series as a not for profit (subtle difference in wording but huge difference in responsibility) between not for and non profit. and with the recent O.B.E.'s for the series staff. Can Canonization be far behind? Only time will tell.

Was the Ore series "Not for" or "non" profit?

If "not for" then we are stuck and just threw the dough down a hole. Granted they somewhat fun (I still don't like Pools, ghosts or 5 somes)
But if not for then I really strongly disagree with the statement of the 80k contribution because they get to keep the Dog and Pony Show

Hence my other question As a player, do I have the right choose to not give to the series but designate that fee as a donation to the club instead?

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If you ask me the ORE. series was the perfect business model for running an event or series for profit.

And for getting rich, obviously. I hear that the Bellingers are actually planning to sail around the world in the luxury yacht that they got from all of those $3 entry fees over the next year. This burn out story is just a cover.

ďI believe I can hit 18 greens, hit every fairway, you know ó Vision 54, which means you birdie every hole, thatís in the back of my mind. I want to putt better, chip better. That day when I hit 18 greens and one putt, Iíll know Iím a complete golfer. Will that ever happen? Iím not sure, but itís possible. The 54 vision is always in the back of my mind.Ē~Annika SŲrenstam

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The NW Alliance would like to structure a fee system where the Local Club gets a portion up front. I feel a $5 fee that is broken down into $2 for the Local Club, $1 for the NW Alliance, $1 for Administrative costs, $1 to series Final Payout. This shows that the cash is being used for various reasons and supports all organizations. Then you add in the $3 PDGA Fees and $2 Acepot for each day. It gives you a nice round $10/per person from every event for various organizations.

Players are starting to realize that things do not just happen on their own. We must all step up and come together to build on the future.

I know that if you stress to make everyone happy it is a losing struggle. No matter what you do someone out there will find exception to it. Progress must be made no matter what the obstacle.

What would be the problem with having a B-tier every weekend in the NW? Keeping to the PDGA standard that is set of 50 miles apart. This would give people a choice on where they would like to travel. We do not agree that back to back weekends is saturating the Calendar. Events are now filling months in advance. This is just going to give players more options for the future. It will start holding events to a higher standard of quality.

Players enjoy some events over others for various reason. This is due somewhat to the course, scheduling, atmosphere, payout, and factor of fun. Putting on premier events will cause a ripple effect through the region.

Whether we acknowledge it or not every one of us critiques each event in our own way. When we tell people how much fun we had or mention something which effected your experience. However it comes out, it's up to those that couldn't attend to make the choice if they wish to in the future from our perceptions and reactions.

Oregon Series events have been held to a very high standard. Which is a badge of honor everyone should wear. How are those who are picking up the pieces going to keep this standard intact without the existing infrastructure?

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If you ask me the ORE. series was the perfect business model for running an event or series for profit.

It was a complement about how well though out it (ORE series) was. I just find it hard to believe they did not make money. You know the old wholesale retail gouging argument. How can the same regular disc be valued so drastically different from vendor to vendor?

It's interesting how well you spin sam. You made my complement into a dig?
Maybe you could offer some insight instead of quick quips and jabs.

What do you think about my question? Can players decline to participate in series fees or designate them as donations to the "local host clubs"?

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As a player, do I have the right choose to not give to the series but designate that fee as a donation to the club instead?

No. You have the right to play in the event or to not play in the event. Look at how the fees are set up and who gets what and make your informed decision as to whether you want to participate.

And Jubby, you know I love you, but the coherence of the last post escapes me. I was able to get the question pretty clear though so I answered that.

Hath this whole world been mired in madness?
Remain ye men of faculty complete,
Of full arithmetic and prudence fair,
Attending to our noble bond and contract?
Or does here stand the last remaining man
To give a fig for rules and order yet,
No noble savage, but a stave unbroken
Who loves the law and bids it no misdeed.
Iíll not be bent to lawlessness. Mark it nought, if we be men of honour.

Comment

Series Fees are a developing topic. Under the NWDGA, the NW Series portion will only be $3 ($1 NWDGA, $1 Admin Fees, $1 Payout. $2 will go to the hosting Local Club. Please read my above post for more explanation on Fees.

Fees are always going to be a huge discussion topic. Just the word "Fees" expresses that you "owe" something. Well I feel we all do. We owe it to ourselves....

Discussions are underway to allow existing events (Windy, Ft Stilly, Lava) to become part of the NW Series without instituting any Series Fee.

It seems silly to detour people from future development of a region for $3. It could be offered as an optional Fee for those players who wish to qualify for the Series Final. It seems like a pety thing to ask for $3 ($1 NWDGA, $1 AD Fees, $1 Series Payout) from people after they have pre-registered. Announcements could be made to come to the NWDGA table for new memberships and to "sign up" for the Series. This way only the players who have plans to make enough events can choose to sign in or not. Points will be totaled for all players at these events but will only count towards a "qualifying player's" Top 3. I would love to have some input from you all.

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It was a complement about how well though out it (ORE series) was. I just find it hard to believe they did not make money. You know the old wholesale retail gouging argument. How can the same regular disc be valued so drastically different from vendor to vendor?

It's interesting how well you spin sam. You made my complement into a dig?
Maybe you could offer some insight instead of quick quips and jabs.

What do you think about my question? Can players decline to participate in series fees or designate them as donations to the "local host clubs"?

Jub you completely ignored my post and I am feeling left out. Go back and read it, calculate how far a $3.00 dollar fee goes, factor in all the items I described and then tell us how much profit was attained from this adventure. I know it could require some work on your part and some assumptions but you are good at those so I will wait patiently for your reply.

Oregon Series was classified as nothing it is just a series of events, Northwest Disc Golf Promotions was classified as a Not-for-Profit.

Andrew, I don't take your posts as a dig against the Bellingers and you have always been supportive of the Oregon Series. I appreciate the path you are taking and the amount of work you will be putting forth into disc golf. I think we both know that most of the information on here is speculation and if we want real answers we need to go to the source. Perhaps you can ask these same questions to Cris and Teresa directly but by no means are they required to post on any forum about anything regarding the Oregon Series and their involvement for the last 8 years. Their public service announcement was nothing more than that and should be read as an announcement.