I've only tried once to take the ships but it cost me the game. So I like the suggestion that like the cities the ships are 1 troop bonus for each or at least 2 for 2 so it may be interesting to hold them as it's true they are controlled by only one territory.

I played some game and I see it's very hard to have the Classis bonus and no one was able to have it. Maybe it could be easier with a lesser number of Classis needed.

Hi and grats for the map!

Finaly that some people know Latin-you are probably first who know latin,but you come to late,because i dont have any attention to change these,because its quite simple-many people dont know latin,including me-i work on these map very long period,and nobody have complaining abouth that,and now when map is out beta,changes is not going to hepend,becausa these changes will not have any influences on gameplay and graphic.

Also i want to finish all discusion abouth Classis,these will stay like now,because all other solutions is wrong for gameplay, also next time is much better to come here and participiate in map production,and maybe will some thing be possible to change,but now Map is out beta stage, so these mean that changes is finish(except if someon find some very big mistakes who have big influences on gameplay or on graphic)

Changes, graphical, can be made when a map is out of Beta. Once a map leaves Beta, it doesn't mean that it is "Safe" from any changes. A cartographer should always went their best product available, even if only a few know there are some inaccuracies.

Changes, graphical, can be made when a map is out of Beta. Once a map leaves Beta, it doesn't mean that it is "Safe" from any changes. A cartographer should always went their best product available, even if only a few know there are some inaccuracies.

--Andy

I dont know what you talk,but from Rewamps what i look a little if Original Cartographer dont give permision,then its not possible to change nothing,or im wrong read rules Any way, from now if someon have any things abouth Imperium romanum,please send me PM,because im tired of contantly explanation,why is something look like now. Maybe is better for all people who dont follow proces on these map,to try to read a little all topic.Like i say these map have very long period to determin what is best,and now sugestion like"remove ships,decreas number of neutrals" dont have valid explanation,because balance of map will be ruin. If you dont take ship,these not mean that you will lost a game. I play many games,and im losing game because dices,not because i dont take ships.

what is the point of having these 3 small Alpes regions ?Especially the red and white dot areas ? The white one is not different in path/borders than the other one.And then the green one has access to (too) many great territories in France and Germania ?!?!

If the idea is to recreate the terrain difficulty (mountain paths), in that many small territories on the map simulate slow progress in reality, then why not had these 3 territories put in sequence (from west to east) ?

ALso I find there are a LOT of Legio Romanum cluttered in "Asia", which, together with the cities and being in the map corner with three sides fairly easy covered, means that conquering Asia is THE key to win the game.So unbalanced.Why is that so ?

If you took basis in history on a certain moment that there happen to be more roman armies active/fighting in Asia than in the west/or africa, then that is a bad excuse. Because in your map the players/armies are bound to return and fight inside the Roman Empire territories whereas those historical armies in Asia were doing border offensive actions versus the arab-asian tribes and kingdoms and the rebellion troops within palestine.

Better focus on balanced gameplay disposition of bonusses than on historical snap shots.

and a third thing:What is the point of creating "fleets" when there is no use made for them in the map ?One player can make cross channel invasions (Britain, Gibraltar, Sicily, etc) without being hindered by the player that holds the "navy" in that area.That is silly. They all act as "appendices" in the map. Useless , except for a bonus when you control many of them.It is so easy to recreate the notion that only by controlling the seas locally can you transport your army over a channel.That is more realistic and makes gameplay a bit more interesting/exciting.

Rarely does someone go for the Classis - what if the neutral were reduced to 2?

On top of that, what if we made Italia, Cohors I and Cohors II starting positions, that way the Cohors also gets used, which also never does currently?

Agree with both suggestions. A wonderful map with a lot of wasted territories. All anyone will go for are the civitates as the legio is generally a bonus that is only held if you're winning. I've seen someone go for Italy and the rome bonus maybe once. A shame because the map is very clever and has a lot of good choke points. It is excellent for team games too.

I think the map is perfectly designed as it is. The author thought carefully about what he was doing and why he left Italy and Rome neutral. While in 1 v 1 these elements get used relatively rarely, in group plays they play a key strategic role.

I don't think we should start unbalancing a very good and popular map, especially since its auhor is no longer here to defend his views.

This map has been quenched. That must MEAN something. At the very least, it must mean that it cannot be modified without the author's consent.

Raskholnikov wrote:I think the map is perfectly designed as it is. The author thought carefully about what he was doing and why he left Italy and Rome neutral. While in 1 v 1 these elements get used relatively rarely, in group plays they play a key strategic role.

I've played some team games on this map, and I still don't really see the Classis or the Cohors being used.

I don't think we should start unbalancing a very good and popular map, especially since its auhor is no longer here to defend his views.

qwert is still here. It may be balanced the way it is now, but putting in more factors while keeping it balanced would make the games more interesting.

This map has been quenched. That must MEAN something. At the very least, it must mean that it cannot be modified without the author's consent.

Right. All I am doing is putting up a discussion as to whether it may be a good idea or not.

I like this map an awful lot. In a game with lots of players I think the cohors get used. I've taken them once, or twice. Never the classis though, never seen anybody take them, and given that they're so difficult to obtain I would be in favour of completely changing that bonus. Not just reducing the neutrals on them, I would change the bonus, and maybe even the routes on the map in relation to the boats. Otherwise they're just pointless.

Aradhus wrote:I like this map an awful lot. In a game with lots of players I think the cohors get used. I've taken them once, or twice. Never the classis though, never seen anybody take them, and given that they're so difficult to obtain I would be in favour of completely changing that bonus. Not just reducing the neutrals on them, I would change the bonus, and maybe even the routes on the map in relation to the boats. Otherwise they're just pointless.

Aradhus wrote:I like this map an awful lot. In a game with lots of players I think the cohors get used. I've taken them once, or twice. Never the classis though, never seen anybody take them, and given that they're so difficult to obtain I would be in favour of completely changing that bonus. Not just reducing the neutrals on them, I would change the bonus, and maybe even the routes on the map in relation to the boats. Otherwise they're just pointless.

Once or twice isn't that much...Because taking 12 armies isn't really worth a +3 bonus, especially when other players have Civitates Romanum and will be ready to bust you up when you get the bonus.

Classis Romanvm(ships).Here what i think-i can reduce neutrals to be 1 army,in this way they will become much interesting for play,and easy for capture. And from mine experience,nobody will be in advantage to take this bonuses easy.

Cohors Praetoria and Roma.Now from mine view this could be reduce to 2 neutral per territory,except Roma who will be reduce to 1 neutral.But then Italia territory need to be 3 neutral,because player who get this territory will be in small advantage.

This is what im thinking.

Classis - If we do 1 neutral, we would probably need to lower the amount needed. 3 for 1 or 2 armies sounds good to me.

I like Qwerts plan but just one thing to be careful of imo is low neutrals as '1's - if they are safe they may be too strong as per getting cheap card and having ter bonus. It's hard work early on in this map to get to +4 and the extra armies are valuable.I'd be careful about swinging it too much the other way - if you get dropped by a boat (or more) with 1 neutral on it I think you would have a very nice start. Many people play it flat rate and it's a mission to get early cards.

In 1v1 that getting to 15 ters (and reducing opponent to 11) is vital early on.

I'd have the boats as 2 but adjust the bonus - less of them required, maybe 3 for +2.

Italia 2 (or3!), Roma 1, them dogs 2 sounds OK as Italia starts neutral - nice to own tho. Maybe that could be switched slightly so the doggies were more worth going for and Roma wasn't a cheap (and protected) ter. Say 2 Roma and doggies 2,2,1?

A long winded way of saying no-one goes for these things as they are too expensive in low bonus / army count environment.Now the 4/7 boats that are attached to non neutral ters are v nice at 1 neutral (too nice) and the attached ters too important on the drop?

It'd certainly change the gameplay to focus on Italy - with Roma, the dogs and a boat.

Aside - why isn't there an offline testing ground for a group of people to try these things in practice rather than guess / be hypothetical and unleash on Joe Public in Beta (which everyone rushes to)?

Was trying to reinforce Pannonia Superior this morning from Dacia and noticed that Superior was not in the end point list while Inferior was listed twice. Will test again from various points given the chance.

I have played this map a couple of times now, and it seems to me that the Asia Minor portion of the map has a large number of the bonuses. The ones located there are practically equal to number available on the rest of the map. In the games I have played on it, the early fighting is all over that area. The winner of that battle then has a definite edge over the the others located elsewhere and invariably goes on to win the game. Perhaps something can be done to balance out the map. Beatica, Aquitania, and Germania Inferior could probably stand to have a bonus add to make them worthwhile. Especially since they were important provinces of the Empire.

Augustus Maximus wrote:I have played this map a couple of times now, and it seems to me that the Asia Minor portion of the map has a large number of the bonuses. The ones located there are practically equal to number available on the rest of the map. In the games I have played on it, the early fighting is all over that area. The winner of that battle then has a definite edge over the the others located elsewhere and invariably goes on to win the game. Perhaps something can be done to balance out the map. Beatica, Aquitania, and Germania Inferior could probably stand to have a bonus add to make them worthwhile. Especially since they were important provinces of the Empire.

There's a new, improved rome map under construction in the main foundry. You should check it out.

Yes, I have seen it and have been following its development. I wouldn't mind giving it try once it reaches Beta. However it is a different type of map, so I thought I would just offer my observations on this one.