Coffeehouse Thread

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@DeathByVisualStudio: It doesn't matter if it's in the Start Menu or not. Let me reiterate: If it's not on the desktop, then it doesn'texist. I have users who call up because their program is gone and they can't do any work so fix it right now. They scan the desktop, and then sit there drooling on themselves. I go to there desk, Start>All Programs>SomeApp Folder>SomeApp. They then exclaim that they never knew that they could go there to get it, but could I please put it on their desktop.

How is that going to change anything when the user doesn't use Start Menu or Star Screen, especially the button to open Start Screen is no longer visible.

What's is worse is just like your case, they tell you to put icon on the desktop when you are unable to do it for those Metro App and they think you are losing your intellect as you no longer able to match their demands.

Leaving WM on 5/2018 if no apps, no dedicated billboards where I drive, no Store name.

@DeathByVisualStudio: I'm sorry for you too? These users aren't the majority, but the 80/20 rule applies. That is, unless you can keep them positive. I've seen IT professionals with with negative attitudes about the products that they are implementing sink or sour entire projects. Their attitude spoils the users perceptions and then nobody is happy. On the other hand a positive and encouraging IT staff can make very difficult transitions much easier for the users.

@magicalclick: In some environments, corporate IT has already been using an application launcher for years. There are all manner of solutions for self-service application installation and execution. So, using stuff like GPO to manage the Start screen is just a natural evolution.

@DeathByVisualStudio: I've seen IT professionals with with negative attitudes about the products that they are implementing sink or sour entire projects. Their attitude spoils the users perceptions and then nobody is happy.

Oh you mean like yours where 80 percent of the users are considered stupid or where the IT "professional" knows best? Yeah my customers really enjoy working with people like that. It's funny because a lot of my success has been because of guys like you who preceded me.

If we all believed in unicorns and fairies the world would be a better place.

@DeathByVisualStudio: No, I don't mean that. That class of user requires different training and help, but if you treat them like idiots, then you aren't going to get anywhere. IT doesn't always know the customers domain, but it is our job to know technology and how it can help them do their jobs. In the area of technology we should be the experts (by that, I mean actually be an expert, not a know-it-all), and we must provide what they need to get their job done. If we have to guide them toward a specific solution or make business rules suggestions to allow the software to help instead of hinder, then so be it.

Coming to the customer with the attitude of "I'm going to deploy this thing, but I don't like it and you won't like it, so I'm going to do this other stuff to 'fix' it", is only going to cause problems. Always passing blame to the vedor will either undermine the confidence the user has in the IT organization, or it will make them resistant to the needed changes. However, when the customer sees IT positive and excited about new deployments, then that feeling rubs off on them. The changes may still be difficult, but they are more willing to tackle them.

@kettch: Equally so when an IT person says "sorry dear user, it's my way or the highway" rather than solving the problem by installing something like Start8 -- you know giving them options -- then they do the user a disservice.

You assume my discourse with my customers based on my opinions of W8 I've expressed here. It appears that you equate someone who doesn't like everything about W8 in technical circles as someone who is incapable of helping their customers. IOW "if you don't like W8 then you're going to ruin it for your users". That's a pretty myopic and inflexible view IMO.

If we all believed in unicorns and fairies the world would be a better place.

@DeathByVisualStudio: At least give the user a fair chance to see if it works for them. By that I mean don't give it to them and tell them "you'll hate this, let me know when you want me to fix it". That just skews the sample. Oh, and let them use it for a significant enough period of time that they have a chance to actually get used to it. While they might be intimidated by technology, they are adults who are capable of learning new things.

@magicalclick: They've had a very long time to learn the Start Menu, and some do know how to use it. We should at least give them a reasonable amount of time to learn this new way of doing it before kicking them out of the way and saying "let me do it", the solution being...what...put them back to the old way that they will continue to have trouble with?

Yes, we should keep trying new ways to help people. But we cannot assume the solution solves the issue. In fact, we also need to consider new issues that it introduces when the old solution didn't have those issues.

I am not against the change. I am saying introducing changes should always consider the risks and keep the working system to to fall back to. We should always understand the change may not have expected outcome. While staying positive, we should not be blinded to optmism.

And I dislike manufactured statistics. For example, large portion of XP users don't use quick launch bar in comparison to Win98 because users have less interests in it.

Leaving WM on 5/2018 if no apps, no dedicated billboards where I drive, no Store name.