General GM ChatWhen starting new posts, please specify YEAR, MAKE, MODEL, ENGINE type, and whatever modifications you have made.
Chat about all things GM (and related cars). Off-topic stuff should be in the Lounge, and all Model specific mechanical problems should be posted in the proper forum.

I would venture to say we have at LEAST 200 thermostats changed to 180 in 2000 and newer cars here.

Quote:

Originally Posted by willwren

We literally have thousands of 3800'* on this Forum running great on the 180 thermostat.

Is this documented on the number of cars running the 180? Is this a published source of information or just your word of mouth? Because you seem to change your mind by at least 1800 cars within two pages of posts. If your second number was referring to all years, then that is a pretty irrelevant number considering this code only applies to 2000+ model years.

Yes, it'* documented. Many of us have been here for 4 years and have watched them all be installed. The disparity in numbers is that I've specified 2000 and newer as being one number, with the thousands OVERALL. Read it again.
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Quote:

What I posted is facts, not opinions. The computer WILL set a code if the conditions stated are met. That doesnít mean a 180 stat will make the car meet those conditions. It means that you are very close to the conditions, and if you read my first post in this thread you will see that that is exactly what I said.

Wrong. You are posting THEORY based on a source of information. We are posting from EXPERIENCE and proven experimentation and application.

Bonneville, maybe you would feel better if you understood that running a 180 will NOT run your coolant at 180, 4 points above the magic level you are preaching. Your car will actually run about 185 in motion. Higher in stop and go traffic.

I'd like to invite everyone here to post who'* running a 180 with no problems.

I have in two Bonnevilles.
Also both of my Mother'* LeSabre'*. One is an 03.
I've personally installed half a dozen others in Bonnevilles. None of which have problems.

In following the discussions and opposing opinions here, perhaps this example will help:

The manuals are equal to textbooks....
The club'* experience is equal to one'* work experience...
Surely, Mr. Bonneville and all can agree that from your own life experiences, some things cannot be learned from textbooks and service manuals...rather you tweak the "printed" methods through trials and experience. Furthermore, a particular design by the GM engineers doesn't necessarily make said design the "best" one...if this were the case, we would never see recalls.

I'm not seeing any new points being brought up for discussion...if the explanations given by those with experience running the 180 tstats has not yet satisfied your inquiry, it'* best to drop it. Arguing facts or theories will not change the experiences and proven knowledge.

Wow, this is like arguing with children. Are my posts even being read? Maybe try reading * l o w e r.

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2000SilverBullet

Bonneville,
It seems like it'* pointless trying to convince you that the GM FSM is not always right.

I know the manual is not ALWAYS correct, I have found a few typos and mistakes myself over the years. But it is extremely rare to come across anything more significant than a simple misspelling. Iím not saying it doesnít happen, but you have to admit that it is very rare to find inaccurate numbers in the diagnostic sections of these manuals.

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2000SilverBullet

I can't find anywhere in my manual where is shows this 00 has a PCV valve or how to change it. Learned that from Bill.

Ah, well there you just answered one of my questions I had for you and Bill:
Q: Do you guys know how to navigate the factory service manual?
A: No

The manual does acknowledge that there is a valve and it even shows you how to inspect and change it.

Iíve been reading these factory manuals for 15 years, I know how to navigate them and Iím fully away of the miniscule amount of incorrect information that they contain.

Quote:

Originally Posted by willwren

Yes, it'* documented. Many of us have been here for 4 years and have watched them all be installed.

I would consider this more of a ďword of mouthĒ documentation. If it is not recorded in numbers somewhere to be viewed, then youíre really just guessing at the number of cars with colder stats.

Quote:

Originally Posted by willwren

The disparity in numbers is that I've specified 2000 and newer as being one number, with the thousands OVERALL. Read it again.

Quote:

Originally Posted by bonneville

If your second number was referring to all years, then that is a pretty irrelevant number considering this code only applies to 2000+ model years.

Who needs to read what again?!?

Quote:

Originally Posted by willwren

Wrong. You are posting THEORY based on a source of information. We are posting from EXPERIENCE and proven experimentation and application.

I know for a fact that this code will set if the coolant temp does not reach 176 because I have seen it with my own eyes, reading the live engine data right off of the Tech2. So unless the manual is wrong AND the Tech2 was lying to me, then I would have to say that this is FACT.
Do you want to argue the accuracy of the Tech2 now?

Quote:

Originally Posted by willwren

Bonneville, maybe you would feel better if you understood that running a 180 will NOT run your coolant at 180, 4 points above the magic level you are preaching. Your car will actually run about 185 in motion. Higher in stop and go traffic.

Iím well aware of how a cooling system operates, thanks for the refresher course though. I almost forgot that the thermostat ONLY controls coolant flow and not air flow. And to think, Iíve been wrenching for 15 years now and that ALMOST slipped my mind.

Quote:

Originally Posted by willwren

I'd like to invite everyone here to post who'* running a 180 with no problems.

Iíd like that. Iím willing to bet you a beer that you wonít get 200 replies from 2000+ owners stating that they run a 180. Make a new thread for it just so we can keep tabs on it. Heck, Iím willing to bet you wonít even get 100 replies. Need to set a time limit though, how about 1 month? That seems fair to me.

Wow, this is like arguing with children. Are my posts even being read? Maybe try reading * l o w e r.

I am thinking the same thing Mr. Bonneville...

Quote:

Originally Posted by singscountry1967

I'm not seeing any new points being brought up for discussion...if the explanations given by those with experience running the 180 tstats has not yet satisfied your inquiry, it'* best to drop it. Arguing facts or theories will not change the experiences and proven knowledge.

I'm surprised that Noob could even spell the word Bonneville let alone acquire the name.

I think I know that mechanic. He'* the guy that used to work at our dealership here 10 years ago and changed the trani fluid in my Scout by punching a hole in it with an awl, then brazed it up.

Anyway, we all know from experience that 180 stats work without setting codes in +00 Bonne'*, and that'* all that counts.

The late departed Bonneville is definitely not a practical mechanic. Strictly by the books is not always right.
Listen to me, I'm an Engineer and I'm speaking like that.
Why?
It'* because I have come to realize after many years of working with mechanical equipment, dealing with Vendors, Consultants, Specialists, Contractors, Tradesmen and Accountants, that you have to consider more than simply a factory Service Manual.