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Oh my. Please stay here and do not post at AVSforum....you'll start a riot as they prove you wrong. BTW - grain is good.

I've been on AVSforum for many years. I know how close minded they are over there. I actually tried to have this conversation over there a while ago, but not only did they tried to prove me wrong, some members got nasty and even personal. I disagree that grain is good, but that is my opinion.

I've been on AVSforum for many years. I know how close minded they are over there. I actually tried to have this conversation over there a while ago, but not only did they tried to prove me wrong, some members got nasty and even personal. I disagree that grain is good, but that is my opinion.

Grain is not subject to opinion. Grain is a part of film. It belongs there. It is supposed to be there. It is not noise. When you remove grain, you remove detail. That is not opinion. That is a fact.

Earlier you seemed to be equating grain with resolution. Now you say you nearly got run off AVS because of your views about film, and here people are disagreeing with you, too. Your conclusion is you are right and everyone on two different forums are wrong?

Nobody will care if you think film is inferior to digital, but on a purely physics level, you do have more resolution in film than you do in a 1920x1080 image. As for grain, you'll get the same thing if you blow a digital image up too much. Only it's not called grain, it's called pixels.

That is correct about film and grain, but it is noise in digital terms. Yes film makers use it for artisitic purposes, but it is still noise. It is impossible to make any film stock without grain.

------------------------------------------------------------------------A fool finds no pleasure in understanding but delights in airing his own opinions.

Earlier you seemed to be equating grain with resolution. Now you say you nearly got run off AVS because of your views about film, and here people are disagreeing with you, too. Your conclusion is you are right and everyone on two different forums are wrong?

Nobody will care if you think film is inferior to digital, but on a purely physics level, you do have more resolution in film than you do in a 1920x1080 image. As for grain, you'll get the same thing if you blow a digital image up too much. Only it's not called grain, it's called pixels.

No I do not. I never said that I was right. I was just saying that people who love film as a medium do not even want to discuss it. It's their way or no way. No reason to get personal.

Well that is not exactly accurate. Since most TV's do a good job of generating a Progressive scan image from an Interlaced signal you should not be able to tell the difference from a P or I input. Which also sort of feeds into the questions asked in post #2 in this thread where I think most people would not be able to tell the difference between a 1080i and a 1080p broadcast. Of course, you can tell the difference from a Blu-Ray to a broadcast because of the MUCH higher bitrate.

But to me a 1080p channel would probably be worthless unless they upped the bitrate substantially.

+1...the only thing that really matters is bitrate. i believe that HD over D uses about 12 Mbps encoding...about 1/2 to 1/3 of what a bluray is. you encode a 720p image at 25Mbps and the same image at 1080i at 12Mbps, the 720p one will blow it away. as far as 1080i vs 1080p...at the same bitrate they look the SAME...1080 lines...yes there may be a hair of motion blur..but thats it.

comcast has cable boxes with HDMI 1.4???? the only way to broadcast the new 3D coming out is to use HDMI 1.4 and i doubt their old cable boxes have anything higher than 1.3a. the only 3d they could possibly use is the kind with the multicolor glasses.

comcast has cable boxes with HDMI 1.4???? the only way to broadcast the new 3D coming out is to use HDMI 1.4 and i doubt their old cable boxes have anything higher than 1.3a. the only 3d they could possibly use is the kind with the multicolor glasses.

Not it isn't. Only HDMI 1.3 is needed. Hence the reason why PS3's will be able to perform 3D.

comcast has cable boxes with HDMI 1.4???? the only way to broadcast the new 3D coming out is to use HDMI 1.4 and i doubt their old cable boxes have anything higher than 1.3a. the only 3d they could possibly use is the kind with the multicolor glasses.

comcast has cable boxes with HDMI 1.4???? the only way to broadcast the new 3D coming out is to use HDMI 1.4 and i doubt their old cable boxes have anything higher than 1.3a. the only 3d they could possibly use is the kind with the multicolor glasses.

I think that both Comcast and DirecTV will be using a low bandwidth 3D format with 1080p/24 going to each eye, and for that, HDMI 1.3 at the source is sufficient (though the TV still has to have HDMI 1.4a). It will still use shutter glasses. It's the higher bandwidth 1080p/60 to each eye that requires HDMI 1.4 at the source (with the partial exception of the PS3 which, Sony assures us, can be reprogrammed to be mostly compatible with HDMI 1.4).

Won't both sat providers will need 3 or 4 birds before they can broadcast 3d?

Nope.. They can do it now if they don't want to run as many PPV channels... There isn't enough 3d content out there for more than 3 to 5 channels anyway, and won;t be for a long time... for a regular daily channel.... Now for PPV.. That is another question, but I expect they will offer 3d movies via vod or pushed content...

I would liek to know the amount of bandwidth that will be need for 1080p 3d channels in comparison to the 1080i and 1080p stuff we have now.. It may be the exact same, just depends on how they are going to do it...

I don;t see why we won;t see 1080P 3d by resolution latter this year from Directv.. Of course, I also expect it to be lower bit rate than Blu Ray just like their current 1080P channels..

DirecTV's method for 3D transmission cannot do real 1080p to each eye. Each 1080p frame that is transmitted actually contains two frames that are streched out and shown individually to each eye, resulting in each eye only seeing half of the 1080p resolution.

Actually when it comes to 720p and 1080i. I can tell a huge difference, case in point when i'm watching a basketball or football game on a station that is being broadcasted in 1080i vs 720p I can immediately notice a much more smooth and less choppy picture on 1080i rather than 720p. So to answer your question. Personally Yes I can. I know I compared 1080i to 720p, however same concept really.