Where Key got his info from

I’m enjoying the belief some have expressed that because John Key repeats something (that Winston had visited the Dotcom mansion three times) five days after the Herald printed it, that he must have found this out via the GCSB.

That is completely and totally rubbish.

He got told by Barack Obama over golf, and Obama found out from the NSA satellite permanently focused on following Kim Dotcom about.

That is far far more likely that the possibility that the Prime Minister actually reads the NZ Herald!

Jokes aside, I haven’t seen such a concerted multi-party effort to push a story around social media like this before. It seems that quite a number of people from leaders to minor activists have so wanted to believe that the GCSB would find something out only five days after it was in the Herald that they pushed and repeated it.

Russel Norman started off with it this morning but as usual he was able to see the problem and back off, leaving it to Labour and Winston to make jokes of themselves.

Sure it’s possible Key did get tipped off by the GCSB but I think it’s so ludicrous that if it’s proved that he did then I’ll vote NZF this election.

thePeoplesFlag

Given that the Herald’s gossip columnist is one of the National party’s useful idiots, the possibility exists she only knew because someone in the National party told her, to allow the PM to roll out his “quelle horreur” Vaudeville routine.

RF

Has anyone considered that the one who is height challenged caught a Taxi to Gods Kingdom at our expense. You know how Taxi drivers talk so it would be common knowledge in a matter of hours. Who could be bothered spying on him at the Green Parrot.

ross69

greenjacket

An awful lot of people on the left have shown themselves as real tin-foil hat wearing conspiracy theorist nutters (the FBI is a tool of Hollywood, the GCSB is spying on all NZers, Kim Dotcom (a convicted fraudster trying to escape extradition on criminal charges) is a freedom fighter…).
And election year has only just started.

Kim Dotcom, again: “The Prime Minister set himself up. He knew specifically about “three” visits by Peters. Not even our staff knew there were “three” visits.”

Kim Dotcom, still: “In the interest of transparency John Key must release information about how he knew about Winston Peters “three” visits. School mate Ian?”

Kim Dotcom, who really can’t give up: “Ask John Key how he knew about Winston Peters visiting the mansion 3 times. Only 4 people knew about it & probably Ian Fletcher at the GCSB.”

Winston Peters: “I met Kim Dotcom three times in the last two years. I’ve asked the PM to explain how he knew about the meetings”

Russel Norman: “So why is John Key so certain that Winston has visited Dotcom 3 times? Is the Gcsb still spying and passing info onto Pm? Are police?”

But not David Cunliffe, as far as I can see. Cunliffe never seems to miss an opportunity to attack the government, even if he has to make up a statistic or shout in a Pacific Islands accent. But Dotcom’s minions are so flakey even Cunliffe doesn’t want anything to do with them.

doggone7

Jeez people, I get that you think John Key is a corrupt, Nixon-esk, Tory, devil-incarnate money dealing rich prick who would sell his grandmother for a mere shilling, but is what the Left has been reduced to? Personality and conspiracy-based politics?

There was a time when the Left had the intellectual high-ground and could mount an argument based on a deep understanding of the inherent contradictions of capitalist system.

Now all I can see is a belief that John Key (Shon-Key, geddit?) used the GSCB to gain and use information on Kim Dotcom for political purposes. What fantasy world do you live in?

Jeez, it is so frustrating to see such a paucity of intellectual rigour and analysis that many of you are reduced to such delusionist fantasies. Seriously, how many voters in New Zealand in the second decade of the 21st century think like this? I’ll tell you what, not many.

Please, for the love of the great Socialist tradition I know of, stop this personality-based dislike of John Key and articulate a vision of a better and more decent society.

It’s as if the core of the left has lost hope of winning on ideals and merit and simply resorts to desperate madness.

itstricky

@itstricky,
You are:
a) too lazy and dumb
b) too cheap
c) all of the above.

Sorry? You’re weird. But maybe you didn’t get it.

Mr Farrar has presented us with *his* research – I’d like to see how he came to *his* conclusions. See some references. Such that I can verify, in my own mind, that he’s talking logical sense and I can take him on his word. You know, getting the facts right and all that, that he constantly goes on about. Especially seeing as he’s a statistician for a day job – he must have thought this one through thoroughly.

MH

Nostradamus

Pete George:

It’s as if the core of the left has lost hope of winning on ideals and merit and simply resorts to desperate madness.

Well said. I suspect, as we move closer to the election, Key derangement syndrome will reach heightened levels of nuttiness. It’ll be interesting to see how Cunliffe approaches the election campaign – whether he targets Key personally, or whether he leaves that for the likes of Mallard.

itstricky

Wow! Thumbs down!

There are clearly a whole bunch of people out there who think that opposition MPs are/were colluding to ask questions about Dotcom’s case on his behalf to help spring him. I mean, to believe something like that would almost be as weird as well… …thinking that John Key had GCSB spies running around on his behalf, wouldn’t it?

greenjacket

I just read The Standard.
Wow.
Those people are insane.
.
And it is not just cranks on some conspiracy theorist website – people like Grant Robertson, Winston Peters, Helen Kelly, Russell Norman have donned tin-foil hats too.

tvb

igm

Who does Winnie think he is, he is a bygone, and will not be anywhere near 5% on election day. This obese slug Slobcom is going to be the ruination of Winnie, Greens, and if not careful, Labour . . . he is a dangerous manipulative criminal who should never have been allowed here, but Labour thought he may be a source of finance; he is a user, not a supporter. Come on NZ he is on a par with Lecher Len, get in behind his extradition order, get him out.

Scott1

I don’t think there is anything suspicious about the politicians talking to Dotcom – This is actually a prudent thing to do if you are going to ask questions about him in parliament or if he is going to start a party that will compete with you and waste votes. It may look bad to do it, but it would actually BE bad to not do it (I mean in the sense that they owe their obligation to their voters not in some absolute sense where many might say anything that hurts the greens or NZ1st is good for NZ!).

As to the conspiracy regarding how Key found out. The effect is the same – effectively Key knows what Winston is doing and Winston despite his best efforts can’t hide it.

Probably it is not the GCSB per se – that would be rather foolish of John Key when he could just get people to give him the same information via a different route – but one would not want to say because whatever that method is it will probably sound pretty seedy if it is explained.

Nookin

Istricky says

“Mr Farrar has presented us with *his* research – I’d like to see how he came to *his* conclusions. See some references. Such that I can verify, in my own mind, that he’s talking logical sense and I can take him on his word. ”

The information is available through Parliamentary records. Look it up and verify yourself. Or read the ODT editorial today. The statistics are published there also.

niggly

Ha ha, it is hilarious watching Peters and the Opposition making a fool of themselves with their desperate attempts to smear the GCSB and John Key. Especially how 2013 was the year in which the wider public got to better understand the functions of the GCSB. What did we learn that Peters and the Opposition have conveniently forgotten already?

*We all know the legislation and what triggers GCSB intervention. No way could they be allowed to “spy” on Winston Peters, especially in a domestic context and by the fact that Peters is not undertaking terrorist or cyber crime activities!

*We all know that during the Helen Clark Labour Govt, that Keith Locke was still a “person of interest” by the SIS and the then incoming John Key National Govt ensured such spying on politicians was to cease.

*We all know that John Key and the GCSB got a grilling from the media and Opposition groups last year over various GCSB issues, they wouldn’t be naïve to try something underhand (and illegal) following on from last year’s media debacle.

So keep it up Peters, Labour, Greens etc, this time they are demonstrating to the media and public’s amazement that they are indeed nuts, not doing a good job of manipulating the situation (like they got away with last year) and are carelessly self inflicting gunshots into their own feet!

Brian of Mt Wgtn

The Dot Con mansion is starting to look more like Hefs Playboy mansion with all the people turning up.
It’s about time Krim Dot Con shuts his big trap about NZ politics. He is not a citizen of NZ just a visitor so start respecting the people that let you in the country and lets hope he wont be.

freethinker

itstricky

Nookin Rightnow et al

The information is available through Parliamentary records. Look it up and verify yourself. Or read the ODT editorial today.

Let me spell it out.

Anyone can put publish some stats.

I have no doubt that DPF, the ODT or whomever has that right i.e. A search of questions shows that many with the words ‘Dotcom’. I do not need to verify that or redo it or anything. I accept that. Numbers smumbers.

What matters, however, is the interpretation.

Over the course of the year there was a high profile International botched arrest, a John Banks affair, a prison visit, a GCSB inquiry, and a political party setup. You can’t mention any of these things without the name of the now infamous German.

Of course there will be 153 questions from Mallard
containg the words Dotcom – that is what the opposition have been doing all year – asking questions – AND surprise suprise – most of them will have been to do with the topics above

Until DPF presents how he deduced these numbers they are worthless. Anyone with half a brain who stops and thinks about it for more than two seconds would realise that. Which is why I am surprised that DPF would publish it in the first place. I mean he is a sticler for facts Re: the Panama post a couple of days ago.

Also surprised that the ODT would just splurt out the same thing. Wow.

itstricky

Incidentally this is bad frowned upon statistics – numbers or graphs without analysis or comparison as to how you got to any conclusions. He seems quite prepared however to put on his statistical hat to hunt down an unknown who publishes the wrong size of Panama in a side article of a lesser read paper however… Stinks.

ross69

Rick Rowling

Oh DPF – you’d better give up your day job.

From now on you’d better not post any summary on Kiwiblog, the required standard now is that you must have a fully referenced (APA style please) background report prepared to be published for itstricky.

Clearly you were mistaken in thinking that you could get away with blog- or newspaper-depth comment.

DJP6-25

ross69

“Contrary to what [Peters] might want to believe, I can read. A member of the public, for want of a better term rang me up and said what was the case. I assumed it was right. I said it, it turned out to be right. I didn’t think it was that controversial, to be honest.”

[Key] would not confirm it was Mr Slater, but said he did speak to Mr Slater “every so often,” and had called him earlier this week during which they briefly discussed Kim Dotcom. He said that did not mean he agreed with everything Mr Slater wrote on his blog. “I speak to lots of blogsters [sic].”

I’m not sure which is worse – the idea that Peters is being spied on by the GCSB, or John Key being in cahoots with Slater.

itstricky

Oh DPF – you’d better give up your day job From now on you’d better not post any summary on Kiwiblog, the required standard now is that you mus(APA style please) background report prepared to be published for itstricky.

That is the best you guys can come up with? Seriously?

So you basically can’t bring yourself to say I am right so you fall back on the old freedom of speech lark.

You are right of course. He can publish whatever he wants. But then wouldn’t you give him a hard time when he gives other bloggers and journalists the once over about getting facts right? Eg the size of Panama and rate of extinct species?

No? You mean you just want a blog that tells you what you want to hear without expanding your world? Fair enough. Who am I to judge. Go for it but without explaining the numbers I think he is playing you for fools.