For many years I was Peter Young’s (“lama” Dondrup Dorje) loyal student.My opinion is the following:

1. He is a very dangerous, highly educated, exceptionally skilful, narcissist.2. Pathgate Institute is definitely a cult. It has zero endorsement from the real Buddhist community.3. He has developed extraordinary personal power through martial arts, esoteric practices, and long- term practice of brainwashing / social conditioning techniques.4. He is totally ruthless. He will do anything, to anyone, including short-term positive actions, and ingratiating himself with real lineages, in order to achieve a goal.5. He is obsessed with achieving a sense of self-worth through being superior to others. Despite his undoubted personal achievements (gaining power over others), he is tortured by a sense of self-worthlessness. This drives him to achieve extraordinary powers, and to degrade everyone around him.6. He feels genuinely justified in the same way all dictators feels genuinely justified. At any moment, anything he decides is good, is good; and anything he decides is bad, is bad. What he decides is good or bad, or the people that he decides are good or bad, change at his whim.7. He totally believes power = spiritual blessing.8. He draws people in by pretending to offer to share the secrets of his power and skill. In 20 years, I have never seen this offering ever bear fruit. His senior students are allowed to advance just enough that they’re not totally ridiculous at first sight, giving away the game. 5 minutes with any of them is enough to see their seeming achievements are build on sand.9. When “teaching”, he shares information in a way that guarantees nobody understands him, then blames the student for failing to learn, making the student feel worthless, or karmically cursed.For example: He said “I don’t care how much you’ve been abused in your life, as long as you are angry about it, it will happen again”. This is, effectively, in a very limited way, a true statement. However, First: anyone who has been abused will react very badly to this, it is abuse on abuse. No abuse victim will learn a single thing from knowing this. Second: He doesn’t say how to address the anger one feels about being abused. This leaves the abuse victim in a terrible state of guilt for feeling angry about being abused. Again, abuse on abuse. Third: This opens the student to further abuse, as the student starts to try to not feel angry about being abused, in order to not attract further abuse. This, of course, enables further abuse to happen, which is Peter Young’s objective.10. He loves to ridicule his students individually in front of the group. Public-shaming is one hisfavourite things. He claims it does the individual good, in precisely the same way the Communist Chinese do.11. He becomes extremely jealous of any of his students who do achieve some kind of advancement through sheer struggle amidst the tide of his wrong-guidance, and sabotages them, either directly or indirectly.12. If he fails to sabotage them, or when sabotaged they manage to keep some sense of self-worth, he drives them away from the group, saying they are (in summary) evil.13. He splinters his student’s sense of self, and isolates them, claiming that this is the way topractice the level of dedication that leads to success. He believes this to be true, because it is what he did.14. He fully expects his students to be as ruthless and narcissistic as he is. If they are not, they deserve to be exploited to the max.15. None of his students show any signs of success as a result of what they “learn” from him, on any level. The students who have been with him for a long time are all very damaged, sad, scared and confused people. I’ve personally been around them for a very long time, and they become actually non-functioning in any normal situation.16. His method, both overtly and covertly, is to make his students utterly dependent on him. He calls this “Guru Yoga”, totally debasing and corrupting a real Buddhist practice.17. He does share some wisdom, some insight, some healings etc., but only enough to keep people paying him money and adoration, and generate more for himself. He does it only for his own good. He is exceptionally clever at this. Most of the actually real information he shares can be obtained from basic YouTube video or any basic self-help book. He charges a fortune for this information, and students pay it, because these occasional glimmers of real information seem like diamonds compared to the confusing nonsense he gives out the majority of the time.18. In 20 years, I have not seen one of his students begin to teach. Those who are in charge of centres around Europe and the world do not teach for themselves in this sense. They are puppets. Every single one was appointed as centre-leader to open new income streams, not because they are qualified.19. He programs his students to be self-hating, and to lose all motivation for anything that doesn’t have him at the centre and goal.20. He is utterly convinced that he is doing the right thing, and that anyone who doesn’t agree with him or his methods is (in summary) evil, or at minimum in a state of pitiful delusion. He convinces his students of this. He rewards those students who buy into this view by making them feel superior to everyone else.21. He is exceptionally clever with what he says, and how he acts, so that nothing can be “pinned on him”, including pretending to be enlightened without ever actually saying the words. His students all think they’re being insightful by seeing him as enlightened when he doesn’t explicitly say so. He makes them think they’re “seeing with wisdom”, so he doesn’t have to say it.22. He feeds off his students, and at the same time ridicules them at every turn. Part of that ridicule is getting them to believe he is enlightened without ever saying it. He, very clearly once one sees what he’s doing, thinks it’s hilarious his students are so gullible as to imagine he is enlightened, without him having to convince them in any way.23. He bought his lamahood with cash and favours, it was not earned. I was there when it happened.24. He does not teach Buddhism, he uses Buddhism as a frame to advance his narcissism.25. I have never seen one of his students achieve anything of any worth or value that they wouldn’t have achieved by themselves, and much quicker if they’d been away from his influence. I have seen many of students become much less capable at things they used to be good at.26. He truly believes, and openly states that “fear makes the world go round”. This, in one phrase, explains everything about him, his insecurities, and his methods. That he doesn’t even hide this as his world-view is another example of how he ridicules his students – he has them so brainwashed they don’t realise he is subjecting them to this paradigm.27. Every one of his students is terrified of him. He makes them think this is the correct psychological position for accelerated learning.28. He attracts students with the promise of power. If you are attracted to him, be warned he will use your lust for power to trap you in powerlessness.

I learned a lot from my time with him.However, it is the kind of learning one gets from horrible experience.In that sense it is valuable, but I only just managed to get out with my mind intact. It’s taken meyears to be able to speak up on this forum.The time and money I spent on him, if spent elsewhere, would have advanced me 1000 times further.I have seen many others destroyed, burnt-out or succumb to what can only be described as a kind of deliberate imbecility.STAY THE F**K AWAY FROM HIM.

I’m so happy i am not the only one anymore that realises this to be true!!!!

I have EXACTLY the SAME observation.Sooner or later i’ll add some more!

I hope you are now completely free of his mindcontrol games! This people still chasing after me, EXACTLY! Feeling SUPERIOR!CONSTANTLY amitofu’ing me, probably even REALLY THINK they are somehow helping me?Even though they have COMPLETELY FUCKED UP my life since (around end) 2014 till YESTERDAY, and nearly caused me to go for suicide!

Could you expand further on the number 23 you mentioned? And number 11?Number 11 i recognise to the fullest xDNot because i caught him in the ACT, but it was VERY VERY CLEAR to me that i was very often being sabotaged.

One day i fully get my head around this, than i’ll KNOW how to explain properly.Now i have too much emotions, plus i PAY ATTENTION to them, so again, theyre FEEDING of me, while I in return, get weaker.

Not so much anymore though, because i’m getting more informed about how to deal with these parasites!

* You were NOT told what you'd be in. These people usually wait until you are emotionally and socially invested before they show their true colours.

* Often, we are recruited through people we love and trust, very often at times when we are in low spirits, new in town, in the mood to do major changes.

* What distinguishes a cult from an ordinary relationship is deceit and how the cult makes it difficult to leave by boosting what are called the 'exit costs'. In non cultic groups, churches, relationships, you don't have severe exit costs. When exit costs are low or non existent, it is so much easier to entertain doubts and to decide "He's an arsehole, I'm leaving."

Cults Inside Out covers all this and much more.

If you want a morale booster, there is a discussion threadstarted by former disciples of a female so called tantric guru namedUma Inder. Many of them reported being utterly drained and terrorized.

Over a couple of years, they came together, compared what they'd witnessed. Since then, there has been increasing public scrutiny of this person. A very heartening example.

If you have not been to a physician in awhile, it can be wise to havea check up to ensure you don't have hypertension, blood sugar troubles, etc.

Just in case you get any dodgy messages in CEI's private mail, pleasesend a copy of the offending text to Mr. Rick Ross, moderator and owner ofthis message board and website. Only way we can keep this venue clean is toreport colourable behavior immediately to the moderator.

If the guy who "ordained" Peter Young was the Penor Rinpoche now deceased who was throne holder of the Palyul lineage of the Nyingma sect of Tibetan Buddhism,this Penor was a very poor judge of character.

Penor Rinpoche disastrously talent spotted Catherine Zeoli Burroughs as being a tulku, giving her the name Jetsunma Akhon Lamo. Jetsunma became a greedy, money hungry guru, abusive to her followers.

Yes, it was that same Penor Rinpoche who "ordained" Peter Young.I didn't know about Catherine Zeoli Burroughs.I more than agree about Steven Segal, but hadn't identified the pattern you've shown here. Thank you for pointing this out.

I have contacted Namdroling, Palyul / Nyingma, and the office of the Dalai Lama about Peter Young, and hope that when enough people people do the same, they will act.

Sadly, I don't think the people Peter Young has damaged, and there are many of us, will ever come together like the example you point to.The exit costs of shame and fear from this group are just too high for most people.It is indeed very heartening that the other group of students managed it. I admire them greatly.

23 - Peter Young (PY) spent several years ingratiating himself with Penor Rinpoche, using guile, money and favours to those in Penor Rinpoche's (PR) inner circle. The culmination of this was being awarded robes.PY is exceptionally skilful at manipulating all sorts of people, and as far as I can tell, manipulated enough of PR's inner circle that they vouched for PY.

PY basically failed as a martial arts teacher, and knew he needed something else to earn his living, so turned to "religion" in order to give himself some new credibility and something to hide behind.

I also believe, from what I saw, that many in PR's circle were overawed by Peter Young's power over Western students, although a few were clearly alarmed at his manner with us.One shouldn't underestimate the worldly ignorance of monks in India, or the corrupting influence of money in monastic institutions. They have high costs that need to be met somehow.

While PY claimed he was "ordained", I believe PR was clear that he offered the robes like an honorary degree as given by Universities in the West. I don't think it was meant as an ordination. I'm not sure though.

However, at the time, one person immediately did tell us students who were there that she was disgusted by PY being awarded the robes. She told us that she wasn't going to say anything, but was so disgusted she felt she had a duty to do so.Sadly, I was so brainwashed, I was entirely shocked by what she said, and therefore couldn't assess it objectively.

Good that you're learning not to pay any attention to them, to remove your focus from them.Stay strong.

If even a few veterans of PY form a mate's group of mutual support, that will make a tremendous difference. There are things only another combat veteran can fully understand. Its not just saying the right words after you've spoken or written.

It is those shared silences of mutual recognition.

Human beings are social creatures. We cannot stay contented, sane and healthy unless we are part of groups, communities that are face to face, bodies in the same space.

A cult is a pretend community, but is not a true community. It exists solely so the leader can suck vitality from the members while giving as little in return as possible. One sign of a cult is how many membersget depleted, soul sick and scared to leave, scared to speak up after leaving.

Here is where cults and bad relationships are the same:

The abuser endlessly demands submission and service from you, but never reciprocates your many sacrifices, and does not show gratitude.

Perhaps though, when the leader senses you're ready to quit, he may take you aside and confide in you, tell you to keep a secret, maybe tell you other students are faltering, ask you to mentor those other students, but not tell them what the leader has just told you.

Secret keeping is a great way to keep a cult going. The leader may disrupt friendships that way, telling one friend to keep secrets from the other friend.

Every so often the cult leader or abuser will sense you are about to leave, and will temporarily turn on the charm, trigger your hope and idealism, maybe take you aside and say you are being singled out for brutal treatment because you are better than the other students and can expect promotion some day. Perhaps the abuser may say they've talked about you to some Grand Lama in the Himalayas and you may be invited for a meeting...

Then the abuse resumes.

One thing cult leaders do is to exploit your emotions while making you ashamed of those same emotions.

vulnerability, while making you make you ashamed of your vulnerability -- and at the same time trick you into believing that receiving this abuse and betrayal means you are tough, tough enough to take it, and thatIf even a few of you come together to offer each other validation and comraderie, this would be a huge help.

I agree with everything you've said here.Your good sense, obvious experience, and care, is heartening. Truly.

I've experienced and witnessed every single element detailed in your post.

I've thought about getting a veteran's group together, but the difficulty is PY has been clever enough to make everyone in the group mistrust each other, even when fully "in" the group.The sense of superiority he instills in his victims is against outsiders, of course, but also between insiders.

Secondly, when a person gets out, PY so thoroughly destroys that person in the eyes of those are still in, that even if one knows rationally that the person who left wasn't "bad", the negative emotional imprint is overwhelming.This is so strong that when a person leaves, they don't have the urge to contact other (prior) escapees. The residual emotional imprint is one of such "badness", and so deeply programmed.I've felt this myself.

The upshot is, I don't have contact details for any of the those who got out before me, and only the cult's website email to contact those still trapped.That email goes to the senior student, who I'm 100% sure is fully aware the thing is a cult. He benefits from it, and has become a "mini-me" of PY (although, thankfully, far less skillful).

I also doubt any of those who got out would even want to be contacted about this.I'm pretty sure they're all still too shamed and scared, and just want to bury it.Intuition tells me this, and the fact that I've seen so many people be shredded emotionally / mentally / spiritually by PY, yet there's nothing on the web apart from this forum where anyone has spoken up.Even I still get unwarranted fear-feelings when talking about it.

Another aspect is, like "Dondrup is powerhungry imposter", I too was driven to near-suicide, and part of me is concerned that many of those who have left have actually gone and done it.It wouldn't surprise me to learn that PY deliberately programs his victims to go towards suicide when they get out.

PY really is very clever in this way. Every phrase, every action is calculated for long-term effect.I'm sure he's studied how other cult leaders were taken down, and has strategised how to minimise the risk of that happening to him.He's also studied all sorts of psychology / social engineering, and is truly adept at applying those insights against vulnerable people.

"When you are up for it, you can list all the things you gave to PY and then note using a plus or minus sign, what he did give back to you in fair return -- and what he did not give back ... What they do is trick us into not monitoring how they take from us more than they give back"

Interestingly, I spontaneously started to do this about 2 years ago.For anyone else reading this, I can confirm it works.It gives clarity, and puts one's thinking back onto reality.I still have to do it when the residual brainwashing makes me question what I know is the truth.To my disgust, that still happens, but each time, I know it's another layer of brainwashing I'm freeing myself from, so it's a good thing.The trick you mention is precisely what PY did, and continues to do.

Positively, now "Dondrup is powerhungry imposter" has also posted, there's 2 of us ex-students who have spoken up.I see there's more than 600 views of this thread, amongst whom I'm sure there are ex-students.Maybe more will find the courage to come forward over time.(If ex-students are out there reading this: it will help you to speak your truth, and as we're seeing, it also genuinely helps others to hear you).

Please, please find some emotional, moral and spiritual support near you.

It genuinely helps the deprogramming process, and getting back to a firm sense of reality.This is super important, because all cult leaders work by destabilising a person's sense of reality.

Building a good sense of positive stability in yourself is a real way of fighting back.It's perhaps the only real way.Like they say: "The best revenge is to live a wonderful life".

Also, it's very helpful to find a specific method to move your thoughts onto building your life back to where it should be when you find yourself thinking too much about your experiences there.There's videos on YouTube about "changing your state". Tony Robbins is well recognised, and explains this in clear ways.

Part of the damage PY in particular causes, is to program people to be psychologically haunted by their experiences after they've left.I've heard him boasting about his capacity to achieve this.(Pls note: I mean haunted psychologically, in memory and emotion, not in any other way).

Don't fall into the trap of thinking he is more powerful than he is.The feeling of being haunted by him IS A TRICK he has played on you.It's like a stage magician: it's not real, although it looks real.

Remember: Only those without power abuse others.This is essential to remember!

Remember at all times: he is a bully because he is weak.

If you ask around, I'm sure you'll find someone who has experience in helping people recover from the specific pain and damage you've experienced during your time in this cult.Don't be embarrassed to do this.We've all been there.

Truly, for now, concentrate all your efforts, and your thoughts, and feelings, as much as you can, on healing yourself, and gaining a firm sense of stability and solid reality.

Whenever you find yourself getting angry or feeling threatened (which are both very natural feelings), think about what good things you can do for yourself.Then do them, right then.They can be small things: drink a good cup of coffe, listen to a good piece of music, go for a walk in nice place, go see a friend.They can also be longer-term things: Doing exercise (like swimming) is very good.Singing is very powerful healing - especially singing in choir.

Minimise further damage to yourself by concentrating on doing positive things that make you feel stable and good.

There is also positive in all bad experiences.Your appreciation of this will grow over time, but I promise you it is true.You can hold onto that truth when things seem dark.

From what you say, you are at the start of your recovery.Like all newly escaped POWs, you're going to have PTSD, and it will take time to feel better.Give yourself that time.Address your PTSD with professional help, and positive habits.These days, there are very effective tools people can give you to free you from PTSD.You'll be surprised at how much better you feel!

Once you are stable in yourself, once you no longer feel haunted or threatened, then you will be a position to decide what action you feel is right.If you make decisions about this now, you are doing so from a position of weakness. This will not lead to a good outcome.Get strong and stable and happy first.

Be very gentle with yourself.know that I'm thinking of you, and hold you in my heart.