tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16594468.post3855232183108838796..comments2015-03-30T23:34:27.453-06:00Comments on Atheist Ethicist: The Pledge Project: Sit Down and Shut UpAlonzo Fyfehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05687777216426347054noreply@blogger.comBlogger10125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16594468.post-53608009020856816652008-10-09T15:52:00.000-06:002008-10-09T15:52:00.000-06:00anonymousActually, as I have written elsewhere in ...<B>anonymous</B><BR/><BR/>Actually, as I have written elsewhere in this blog, I do not consider 'offense' to be a morally viable concept.<BR/><BR/>What matters instead of offense is malicious falsehood - holding others in an unfavorable light because of false beliefs, ultimately for the pure pleasure of thinking of oneself superior to them and them inferior and worthy of contempt.<BR/><BR/>So, it was not offense to blacks and Jews that made bigotry wrong. It was the malicious falsehoods held about them.<BR/><BR/>And, in this case, it is the malicious falsehood held by a Christian who holds that, merely in virtue of being a Christian, he is innately morally superior to others and thus may rightfully look down on them.<BR/><BR/>The very idea that others should be grateful to the Christian for the recognition of his moral rights is as absurd as the male telling a female that she should be grateful that he does not rape her. As if saying, "Of course I have a right to do these things - you should be happy that I choose not to."<BR/><BR/>I, on the other hand, deny that a right to bigotry, like a right to rape, does not exist. As a result, no more gratitude is due to the person who does not express bigotry than is due to the person who does not commit rape.Alonzo Fyfehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05687777216426347054noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16594468.post-87188328368573870502008-10-09T14:52:00.000-06:002008-10-09T14:52:00.000-06:00a worthless tirade by a godless cry-baby. if you'r...a worthless tirade by a godless cry-baby. if you're so offended by leaflets which carry a phrase upon which the united states was founded, then you can be thankful (...) that Christian society in America has been as welcoming as it has. Without the fundamental principles which Christianity brought to this country, the US would be less free, less successfull and less filled with hope than it is.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16594468.post-80167215340770290432008-10-09T12:48:00.000-06:002008-10-09T12:48:00.000-06:00Whether you do or do not take umbrage at the ad is...Whether you do or do not take umbrage at the ad is not a morally relevant consideration.<BR/><BR/>The morally relevant consideration is whether harm is done. We live in a country where an atheist cannot get elected, and where a candidate who decides to talk to atheists is held to be less qualified for public office than one who considers the atheist unfit even to be invited to dinner.<BR/><BR/>All of this feeds into a culture that says that there is nothing wrong with telling atheists that they should sit down and shut up - that they are fit only to obey orders from their "betters".<BR/><BR/>So harm is being done. And those who oppose behavior harmful to others have reason to protest.<BR/><BR/>It is quite common, when a culture denigrates a group, for even members of that group to see them denigration as "normal". In fact, it is normal to them - it is what they were raised with. So, Muslim women actually defend the practice of denying them any education, any mobility outside the home, and decent medical care. And in the South during the civil war some blacks even fought in defense of slavery.<BR/><BR/>But the question remains whether harm is being done, not whether a person in that culture has grown sufficiently comfortable in an environment of degradation.Alonzo Fyfehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05687777216426347054noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16594468.post-46110957075892808632008-10-09T12:25:00.000-06:002008-10-09T12:25:00.000-06:00I'm a life-long atheist, find the entire concept o...I'm a life-long atheist, find the entire concept of god laughable. And yet I don't take any umbrage at that ad at all. In fact, I think it's funny, different and refreshingly honest. It doesn't bother me in the least, nor would I distill from it anything at all about their car-selling honesty.<BR/><BR/>You mention elsewhere in your blog that they should apologize for the ad. Quite the contrary. Apologize why? If one is offended by the ad, don't buy cars from them...and maybe lighten up a little bit. All that neck cording can give you a headache.Uncle Enorehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02775950949728028712noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16594468.post-91541012740239448222008-05-31T15:07:00.000-06:002008-05-31T15:07:00.000-06:00Martino - "what is its justification . . ." There ...Martino - "what is its justification . . ." There is no justification, its only a continuing proof "that those who continue to use it are controlled or 'tractable'". Making the sign of the cross, a special handshake, etc. are all signs that the individual subscribes to a set of "rules", "conventions", "values" or "lack of values". Twenty five hundred years ago a Greek Atheist was banished for life because he dared to burn one of the symbols. In the US, you can suffer persecution and prosectution for burning the flag, even if "under that flag" dire things can happen. If you attack the act, some of them (like the last Bush president) declares that you are attacking the "flag" and he gets everyone riled up over an attack on the flag. In the meantime, focus has been shifted away from the questionable act. Hasn't this been the way for all of recorded history?Anton Kozlikwww.milesians.netnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16594468.post-7425766412407087362008-05-31T03:27:00.000-06:002008-05-31T03:27:00.000-06:00Hi AntonWell I am a UK citizen but largely agree w...Hi Anton<BR/><BR/>Well I am a UK citizen but largely agree we also have a "tyranny of the minority" growing here with unjustified double standards in favour of the "muslim community" leveraging off the unjustified double standards of the nominal xian majority - in fact a shrinking minority too (coupled with left-wing anti-capitalism trumps all ideology - the enemy of my enemy is my friend) .<BR/><BR/>Eliminating double standards deals with both tyrannies. Letting any stand only supports arguments for keeping them. Hence my agreement with Alonzo's position on the Pledge.<BR/><BR/>And I must add that the whole idea of having an enforced Pledge - whatever it says - is a highly dubious imposition on the citizens of the USA. What is its justification at all?martinohttp://www.blogger.com/profile/16952072422175870627noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16594468.post-88558614766456951652008-05-30T05:49:00.000-06:002008-05-30T05:49:00.000-06:00Martino - The type of democracy practiced in the U...Martino - The type of democracy practiced in the US is certainly not MY version. What you may have in the US is the "tyranny of a vocal, right wing, religious minority" who, of the entire population, are a signifant minority buy a "majority" of those that are "active", "cohesive" and "dedicated" to their purpose. Could you explain any other reason why the US "imposes" its will on the free world? Actually, that "vocal and active minority" has a deleterious effect on the entire world . . . but then, isn't that what they want to do?Anton Kozlikwww.milesians.netnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16594468.post-47914510494034482712008-05-28T19:46:00.000-06:002008-05-28T19:46:00.000-06:00I did not find the word "compulsory" in your artic...I did not find the word "compulsory" in your article, nor the comments, so I'm posting this.<BR/><BR/>Here's the thing: Education in the U.S. is compulsory. Children are required, by law, to attend school. Now it may be a private school, home school, or what have you, where anything goes, prayer-wise and religion wise. But, for those who can't afford the luxury of private school, or home schooling, the government provides public school. If you can't attend private school, or home schooling, you are REQUIRED UNDER FORCE OF LAW to attend public school.<BR/><BR/>Consequently, any endorsement of religion by public school amounts to the government, by force of law, imposting religion upon its citizens. You dipshit Americans who want prayer in school, you really want the government telling you what your religion should be? You really want that? Are you that dumb?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16594468.post-6267436057331041102008-05-28T09:04:00.000-06:002008-05-28T09:04:00.000-06:00Hi AntonYour version of democracy leads to the "ty...Hi Anton<BR/><BR/>Your version of democracy leads to the "tyranny of the majority". Republicanism is mean to deal with this - no-one is above the law and so there are no double standards - that work in favor of one group over another - and, theoretically, protects everyone equally, including minorities, to prevent the tyranny of the majority.<BR/><BR/>However all states have various built in double standards and resolving this is work in progress and a challenge for us all in the 21st century. The Pledge issue in the USA is on obvious example of this.martinohttp://www.blogger.com/profile/16952072422175870627noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16594468.post-48293254165023313722008-05-28T06:50:00.000-06:002008-05-28T06:50:00.000-06:00Hi, Although I can't think of an ideal alternative...Hi, Although I can't think of an ideal alternative, that is the problem with Democracy. Fifty-One percent of the people get the opportunity to tell Forty-Nine persent of the the people "where to get off the bus". The "quality" of a democracy is judged by how it treats the "minority". America's history on that score is not a shining example to the world, especially its affect on the rest of the world and the "costs" of that effect.Antonwww.milesians.netnoreply@blogger.com