New threads (topics) in the Thunderblogs/Multimedia forum are only to be initiated by Forum Administrators. This is the place for users to comment on or discuss aspects of any individual Thunderblog or Thunderbolts multimedia post.

For thousands of years, the appearance of a comet in the terrestrial skies has provoked deep anxiety and even collective hysteria in humans the world over. The reasons for this response are not entirely clear. Working with historical testimony, David Talbott and his colleagues have concluded that comet fears originated in a global experience of catastrophe and terror. Behind all of the regional traditions and stories is the memory of the "Great Comet," the mother of all comets. The memory traces to the origins of world mythology, according to Talbott, and is particularly vivid in the story of a cosmic serpent or dragon threatening to destroy the world. The most common ancient ideas attached to a comet were the death of kings, the fall of kingdoms, cosmic upheaval, and the end of the world.

[...]

Institutionalized astronomy, with its massive advantages in the forms of billions of dollars of funding, biased educational and peer-review systems and the uncritical support of science media, has failed to resolve the "mysteries" of comets. In contrast, a few plasma experimentalists working with virtual pocket change have delivered findings that can and should revolutionize comet science. ... [More...]

My compliments to Michael Goodspeed. This is one sharply written essay.

Today's scientists have substituted mathematics for experiments, and they wander off through equation after equation, and eventually build a structure which has no relation to reality. -Nikola Tesla -1934

In the news from the various NASA sites, are there are many of them, I have noticed a gradual change in what they consider newsworthy... and worthy of building hardware for. NASA has at least a dozen satellites in orbit now, that are obviously, that is, clearly there to determine if the "claims" of the EU/Plasma scientists are testable, and worth testing for. And to see which ones they can prove or disprove with the results from those satellites.

In other words, the change is already here. NASA is avoiding awkward and silly public debates this way, by quietly putting satellite after satellite up in the sky somewhere in our solar system, to gather data which will give us much more information and knowledge about how the solar system works, the sun and all its planets, from an electric universe perspective. They have tacitly admitted our correctness on those points simply by building and launching those kinds of satellites at all, and so many of them.

It has always been a mystery to me, why sometimes people don't fix their posts after posting.The explanation of episodes in the above linked post is woeful, and confusing, and made worse by the fact the links are not linked. Furthermore, after watching the video, YouTube offers another, and different, "The Electric Comet, part II", also from the Thunderbolts Project.

The people who have been following the Thunderbolts Project closely might be able to work it out.But newbies who look at this page will think, "unprofessional".

Maybe it is simply hoped that people will just click to watch the video, and so attention to detail is not required in the supporting text?And if you want patrons, provide the link as a click through?

The videos, on the other hand, are well produced. I love David Talbot's voice.And it is much easier to set up a web page, than it is to produce a video.

I love the Thunderbolts Project, and the Electric Universe, but that page was quite disappointing.~Paul

My comment is in the context of the work, my partner Jae and me have done on our e-zine, unique among e-zines, called Jae Kamel's URLs. Very briefly, we have looked at roughly 20,000 websites since starting the zine, and our Lists have in the neighborhood of 10,000 annotated, categorized, alphabetized, tested links on them. (The "20,000" is an estimate, using the guesstimate that for every URL we used, we looked at at least 2 of them; the actual figure is probably much higher.) But there is so much more. Since first coming online with the zine in 2007, we have met many people online and off, and made friends with a few; and eventually some started to collaborate with us, and we hired one research assistant as well. Jae maintains 4 online public libraries on his Onedrive, formerly Skydrive. Those are large libraries, and one of them - is for this! He calls it, the "HST-Electric Library", since it began as his collection of favorite Hubble Space Telescope (HST) images. Additionally, he maintains some other databases, as a favor for various colleagues; he is retired and works mostly at home. I have 3 blogs of my own: one for the e-zines, one for the podcasts, and one for the art image collections, mine and Jae's. I'm a research and recording manager, and I make podcasts at work to relax or sometimes at home; there are 101 of them now. I'm often a cafes in L.A. as well. I also maintain some public libraries on my Onedrive. We had to hire the multimedia consultant, Ms. Eclair, just to handle our huge collections, which had gotten altogether out of hand. Videos, galleries from one of our collaborators, and so on. The point of my sharing all that, is that, I - we- understand the problems of people, of teams or groups of people, who have large collections of data to manage, when it is mixed forms, documents, audio, visual, websites, all that. Jae and me share another blog, that's 4 for us alone, plus we are both on academia.edu, I'm on Vortex Based Math (VBM), and so on. And, therefore, I am not at all surprised that anyone on the TBolts team has made the kind of small mistakes you've mentioned: two different versions of an "electric comet" video, and broken or dead links in the post above. Links are changed by the website or whatever, without warning and without notice. He probably doesn't even know yet. Jae and me, for example, have to update 16 lists each month at the minimum, weekly preferably, since websites die and webpages die, all the time! And it is truly difficult to keep up with all of that. Re/ specifically the electric comet videos, Jae has most of them. Sometimes a video was started, and a "preview" of short version of it was made, at first, and a longer version of it made later. Sometimes, too, a long video will be made a first-released in parts, part 1,2,3, and so on, and then later the complete video appears, and the "parts" are still on youtube; so I sympathize with you too, it could seem confusing if you didn't know that. I find that the TBolts videos are professionally produced; were they made at the studios I work at, they would be released "as is"; they are of professional quality. Finally, to touch on your comment about Dave Talbot's voice - he is still my favorite narrator of all the videos, and I like Steve Smith and Wal Thornhill as well. But, Dave... sometimes, I don't know if anyone else has heard this in his voice, but sometimes he slike someone who is showing great patience and kindness, to an unfortunately, slightly retarded child. And I fully sympathize with his exasperation or frustration. The basic facts about the electric universe, and the basic fantasies of the gravity-only-universe which they refute, have been patiently and clearly explained, in those videos and on these websites, to those scientists, over and over and over again. Hence, the feeling that they really are retarded in some way, which prevents them from seeing, understanding things which are very obvious and very clear. They are Birkeland currents, not "ropes"; there is no such thing as "magnetic reconnection"; there is no such thing as a "black hole"; and there never was any such thing as an "accretion disk", or a Kuiper Belt, or an Oort Cloud. Those were all imaginary. Now, the imaginary is very necessary to science, since that is where we first create solutions, hypotheses, and so on; it is were we visualize and let our intuition run ahead of our logical thinking for a time. But, when the first attempt or "first approximation" has been refuted, it is time to re-evaluate that data, not cling to your first attempt; it is about growing up. So, I would ask that you show the poster, TBolts generally, and the video crews, etc., some tolerance, and patience. Managing such large collections is a lot of work, seriously, and the more teams you have working, the more there is to co-ordinate. Jone

Maybe someone can fix these dead links? these articles are already more than a year old? ...

comingfrom wrote:.....a mystery to me, why sometimes people don't fix their posts after posting.The explanation of episodes in the above linked post is woeful, and confusing, and made worse by the fact the links are not linked.

DonKress wrote:...Dave Talbott points out that in one video, projectiles are accelerating ahead of the bolide.

https://www.nasa.gov/multimedia/imagega ... e_528.htmlThis is very interesting in light of the mysterious 'eye of the Sahara' the so-called Richat structure..there are a line of impact sites from northeast to southwest of the 'Eye of the Sahara' which is 'heavily silicified' in the centre of a clearly huge event of some nature, the concentric rings are approx 50km wide... it has been theorised the someone came along with a 50km wide angle-grinder and 'eroded' this 'Richat structure' down level with the surrounding landscape...

It's not too hard to see, or at least imagine acoustic waves frozen into the rings of this 'structure'...Or could this be a huge arc striking the ground in the middle of an impacting meteorite cluster/shower?

The other aligned impacts show an alignment a few hundred km long with several catastrophic impact craters..."...a line drawn 208° S-SW between the Temimichat impact crater and the Tenoumer impact crater, themselves separated by 166 kilometers, intersects the center of the Richat structure, 390 km away."

I wonder if this central feature of this set could be an exploding bolide, in the middle of some smaller unexploded bolides that made it to the ground..

I read somewhere an article by a military guy who pointed out that an explosion happening in the atmosphere of an incoming bolide coverts the bolide to heat, but the kinetic energy of the explosion can still continue directly down into the earth, like a sort of blow-torch-burst on steroids... could an exploding incoming burning ball of bolide-fire strike an arc between the incoming fireball and the Earth's surface, if it was big enough even create a mega lightning arc between the upper atmosphere and the Earth' surface?

This model explains how matter is accumulated in concentric rings like the Richat Structure.That's what I think this structure is, a current impact as described by Don Scott.

There could have been a bolide involved. Hard to say.

There would have been so much activity at the time of planetary catastrophe and all these EM forces would playing on each other and interacting.It would appear that many if not most fast moving bolides break up before impact and some far enough away from the planet that atmospheric heating does not fully explain the explosion.

Maybe as the bolide approaches and get closer to the earth, some 'mirror charge' is directly below the bolide tracking it and when the charge is sufficient, a vortex/birkeland current discharges to the ionosphere and (for some reason) forms just ahead of the bolide. This is pure speculation of course.

Hi DonKress,just speculating here.. I'm very open to anybody's constructive criticism, I'm just learning about all this stuff....

Does this seem possible?When a bolide starts a fiery track through the atmosphere, this trail is plasma, right, fire is a type of plasma?so it seems perfectly possible under the right conditions for the trail of plasma to initiate a lightning strike, since the charged upper atmosphere is supposed to have an abundant supply of positively charged particles... and is charged to 400,000 V+ under normal conditions, according to Feynman...

so a body that had been cruising through the solar and cosmic ray environment where it could become highly positively charged due to collisions with its molecules and solar and cosmic particles... (in outer space the heavier particles of the cosmic rays should knock the lighter electrons off the comet or asteroid, creating a body that is highly positively charged)... when maybe ***multiple bodies come in together like Shoemaker Levy 9, in a shower, then the possibilities get more interesting....

when these **multiple bodies start impacting the atmosphere each with its own positive charge, the combined multiple positive charges on the comet shower would collide with the positive higher atmosphere.. and start to burn with multiple parallel fiery conductive paths... these fiery tracks are like short-circuiting parallel conductors for electric current to discharge the upper atmosphere... when this track gets closer to the surface of the earth, the negatively charged earth and the positively charged comet strike an arc... then bang... a discharge all the way to the ground just like lightning, it would be lightning the vortex in the middle electric-arcifies a huge burn on the ground....

In that video from Cheryubinsk, a mini version of this lightning strike to earth seems to be what happened? I wonder if there was any evidence of lightning on the ground? In a much more energetic event like 'The Eye of the Sahara', if there were multiple fiery paths, and under the right circumstances, there might have been a real discharge arc initiated from the upper atmosphere....if there were a parallel series of charged hot bodies of numerous incoming bolides coming in close enough together? a series of impactors closely spaced might start and maybe keep a real welding arc going between the upper atmosphere and the ground, literally creating a column of plasma, a real dramatic scorcher that the Richat structure seems to show.... it even has that trademark electric discharge crater right on the rim of one of the central rings....

Do ***some experts in mainstream science know about plasma and electric fields in space?Of course they do

The problem with 'mainstream': there are too many other branches of science who don't have a clue about electricity or magnetism or plasma...

Here's an example of the scientific but inappropriate use of the word 'evaporation', and 'WIND' to describe something that is clearly neither evaporation nor wind

"The most fundamental problem in solar system research is still unsolved: how can the Sun with a surface temperature of only 5800 K heat up its atmosphere to more than a million K? In fact, the solar atmosphere is so hot that not even the Sun’s enormous gravity can contain it. Part of it is continuously evaporating [sic] into interplanetary space: the SOLAR WIND...

it just blows away into the dark night, evaporating at a constantly increasing speed till it's going at 800 km per second! each tiny proton nucleus or helium ion has been steadily accelerating, increasing its speed as it 'evaporates' through space till its going at 800 kilometres every second....

Outside the heliosphere there is a forty-fold increase in plasma density. There is also a radical reduction in the detection of certain types of particles from the Sun, and a large increase in Galactic cosmic rays.

Way out there the 'evaporation' stops, with Voyager detecting 2 protons per sec, instead of 25! Man that's some evaporation! maintaining 25 particles per second at a distance of 23,000,000,000 km

And guess what, right out past the edge of the sun's 'influence', space is still singing and the ***plasma is becoming ***more dense...

This animation combines two ways of displaying the Voyager Plasma Wave Science (PWS) observations of ***electron plasma oscillations which provide the basis for concluding that the spacecraft is now in interstellar space. The graphic is called a spectrogram that shows the amplitude of waves (in which reds are the most intense and blues the least intense) as a function of frequency (vertical axis) and time (horizontal axis). In many respects, this spectrogram is like a voice print which shows the evolution of the spectrum of sounds as a function of time. The sound track reproduces the amplitude and frequency of the plasma waves observed. The vertical white bar that moves across the spectrogram links the sound track to the graphic.

"The frequency range shown from about 1.75 kiloHertz to 3.5 kiloHertz is a portion of the actual frequency range detected by PWS and is well within the audio frequency range. Importantly, the frequency is directly related to the number of electrons per unit volume in the vicinity of Voyager and corresponds to about 1 electron per 10 cubic centimeters or a cube about 1 inch on a side. The time scale for this presentation represents 225 days or a bit more than 7 months, while it only takes about 12 seconds to play the audio file. Hence, the time compression is about 1.6 million to one. It should be noted that this compression was done in such a way as to not change the frequencies."

"In this animation, there are two events of interest. In the October-November 2012 time frame there is a tone near 2.1 kHz which gradually increases in frequency. Again, in the April-May 2013 time frame there is another event, somewhat more intense and at a higher frequency near 2.6 kHz. We conclude that these two events indicate an ongoing trend to higher frequencies. The second graphic frame which appears in the animation includes a dashed line showing this increase in frequency and suggests that the density of electrons is continually increasing over this time interval as Voyager moves outwards from the heliopause"

The flow of the interstellar medium (ISM) into the heliosphere has been measured by at least 11 different spacecraft as of 2013. By 2013, it was suspected that the direction of the flow had changed over time.

"The 3D heliosphere in terms of the ’ballerina model’: On the basis of these early discoveries, a three dimensional model of the heliosphere and the stream-structured solar wind emerged. It is most adequately visualized in terms of the ballerina model first proposed by H Alfven in 1977."

The charged positive particles, ie protons, aka Hydrogen nuclei, and charged Helium nuclei, aka alpha particles, alongside enough electrons to keep the average charge even... (thinks: has this been measured or just theorised?) accelerate radially outwards from the sun in a complicated pattern, starting at a speed somewhere about 200 km per second, gradually getting faster and faster, till way out past Jupiter they get to be rocking along at up to 900 km per second... ??? what drives them to behave like that?

"In the outer heliosphere, the speed differences between fast and slow flows are wiped out, and theheliospheric plasma expands at an ***average constant speed of 400 to 500 km per second. A slowdown of the solar wind by action of the interstellar gas [sic] has not yet been noted.

Whatever is going on, this is not gravity driven! Gas?

The density is consistently found to drop off as the square root of radius as would be expected for a medium which expands spherically ***at constant speed.

I was thinking about: do comets get charged by intergalactic cosmic 'rays', galactic rays, solar 'wind' etc, all these 'ray' words are bad terms, since rays denote radiation and these solar wind and cosmic rays are neither!

These phenomena are dense little atomic ***bullets... should be called cosmic rocks rather than rays.. some single ***particles (remember these are not rays, not electrons, but nuclei, rocks...) ...some cosmic rays pack the punch of a 90km per hour baseball.... continually knocking electrons to smithereens off spacecraft, asteroids, comets etc...

I thought, I wonder if someone has speculated on the nett charge induced on a comet by these forces, the charge then reacting to the solar 'wind' --- which put on such a display when the comet is close to the sun...This link is talking about the problems of spacecraft getting charged up in space:

"The spacecraft potential is floating relative to the ambient plasma potential (figure 1.1). When a spacecraft potential is nonzero relative to that of the ambient plasma, the spacecraft is charged.

When the ambient electrons and ions are very energetic (Million electron Volts or higher), they can penetrate deep into dielectrics, which are nonconductors. This situation is called deep dielectric charging, or bulk charging. For a conducting material, an electron penetrating into it moves to the surface because of Coulomb repulsion. Therefore, for conductors, surface charging can occur, but deep conductor charging does not occur. For dielectrics (insulators), both surface charging and deep dielectric charging can occur. Surface charging can occur in dielectrics if the incoming electrons are below about 70,000 electron Volts to 100,000 electron Volts in energy; deep dielectric charging can occur if they are of higher energy. There is no sharp demarcation line between the two charging regimes. In general, Million electron Volts electrons are responsible for deep dielectric charging, while electrons of energy in the 1000 electron Volts range are responsible for surface charging of dielectrics. The penetration depth depends on the electron energy and the material density.

If the incoming electrons or ions are of high energies (Million electron Volts or higher), they may be able to penetrate, pass through, or deposit inside materials. These high-energy electrons may stay inside nonconductors—i.e., dielectrics—for a long time. After a prolonged period of high-energy electron bombardment, the electrons inside may build up a high electric field. If the field is high enough, it may be sufficient to cause a local dielectric breakdown.

Anybody thinking about how comets might also be charged up by this process?

When a local breakdown occurs, ionization channels develop extremely rapidly inside the dielectric, al­lowing currents to flow, which in turn generate more ionization and heat.

Sound like 'outgassing'?

As a result, internal instruments may be damaged. Fortunately, the densities of high-energy (Million electron Volts or higher) electrons and ions in space are low. Internal damage events are rare. However, when they occur, they may, in extreme cases, cause the loss of spacecraft.

Boom! the comet breaks up....

Interference with Scientific Measurements Spacecraft charging may affect scientific measurements on spacecraft. For example, when scientific measurements of space plasma properties such as the plasma density, mean energy, plasma distribution function, and electric fields are needed onboard, the measurements may be affected.

The effects on each of these measurements are explained here. We first examine the basic mechanism of how a charged object disturbs the ambient plasma. A charged spacecraft repels the plasma charges of the same sign and attracts those of the opposite sign ....

Who was saying no sucky things in physics?

As a result, a plasma sheath is formed in which the density of the repelled species is lower than that of the attracted species. The plasma density inside the sheath is different from that outside. The plasma in a sheath is nonneutral.

"Very high energy (Million electron Volts or higher) and low flux electrons and ions are in the radiation belts. Spacecraft normally avoid this region because the very high energy radiation (i.e., electrons and ions) may cause internal damage to electronic instruments onboard. The Combined Release and Radiation Effects Satellite (CRRES) flew through this region and collected some interesting data before it suddenly ceased functioning. In this region, spacecraft surface charging is not an important issue, but deep dielectric charging is. Surface charging occurs, but not to very high levels. Deep dielectric charging is due to the very high energy electrons and ions. They can penetrate into and deposit inside nonconducting materials, or even pass through thin insulations. If they enter the electrical wires, they can disturb the circuits, causing anomalies in the electronics, telemetry, and computers. Charge accumulation inside dielectrics may build up a very high electric field, which, if high enough, may lead to a sudden big discharge or dielectric breakdown, damaging instruments onboard.

Very high energy electrons and ions also exist in the geosynchronous region, but with much less intensity and lower fluxes. During the passage of solar coronal mass ejection clouds, very high energy electrons and ions appear in the geosynchronous region and, of course, in the radiation belts.

Doesn't that sound like comets are charged bodies, disintegrating by electrical forces, or displaying huge displays of light streaming outwards in exotic patterns or streams - the comet's 'hairs' standing on end just like high voltage does to human hair

sketch1946 wrote:Hi DonKress,just speculating here.. I'm very open to anybody's constructive criticism, I'm just learning about all this stuff....

I'm learning too. It started at birth, I went through the mainstream stage in my 20s and up to mid 40s then somewhere along the line a red pill was presented to me... I think it was halfway through my first Thunderbolts video

Does this seem possible?When a bolide starts a fiery track through the atmosphere, this trail is plasma, right, fire is a type of plasma?so it seems perfectly possible under the right conditions for the trail of plasma to initiate a lightning strike, since the charged upper atmosphere is supposed to have an abundant supply of positively charged particles... and is charged to 400,000 V+ under normal conditions, according to Feynman...

Yes, quite possible as the photo of the Columbia shuttle being struck by some form of lightning just prior to it being destroyed shows.

As an aside, I found this video https://youtu.be/dc8_AuzeYKEwhere this person seems to be promoting the idea of an 'elevator' to space. I commented to this guy that his elevator would simply be a huge lightning rod that would soon be destroyed and suggested that science needed to incorporate EU principles into their thinking and models. His predictable response was that when he hears "EU" he just 'tunes out'. Figures.I just hope that the governments of the world don't fall for this idiotic idea and fund it out of public taxes. If they want to build something like that, let all his viewers and more crowdfund it. We'll see how that investment goes. Oh yes, they are going to put this on an ocean platform so they can 'adjust' it. Putting it in a perfectly grounded saline solution ... oh boy!

... when this track gets closer to the surface of the earth, the negatively charged earth and the positively charged comet strike an arc... then bang... a discharge all the way to the ground just like lightning, it would be lightning the vortex in the middle electric-arcifies a huge burn on the ground....

Possible... the other factor is that an iron-containing bolide is a conductive body or at least would have conductive pockets within it. The bolide is passing very rapidly through a magnetic field of a given intensity and at some angle to the field. The effect of this would be eddy currents being produced within the conductive mass of the bolide depending on the speed of the bolide, the angle of trajectory and the strength of this magnetic field. The magnitude of these circulating currents would depend on the internal resistance of the bolide. In the case of the Chelyabinsk meteor, the path was east to west and almost perpendicular to the magnetic field of earth. So we would expect eddy currents to be near the maximum possible for that particular bolide. I think the steepness of the angle of approach would also be a factor. The faster the bolide would go through the magnetic field from weaker to stronger part of the field, the greater the eddy currents and the more rapid the destruction sequence would be.

Take Shoemaker Levy's impact to Jupiter for example. Why were all the fragments late to impact ? In this very interesting live video from a South African TV station, https://youtu.be/Ueau_fCbD4w?t=8m13sthe director of the observatory, Dr. Robert Stobie states this. He then goes on to explain how accurately they have been tracking these objects over time. But the impacts are as much as 20 minutes late. Why ?

A further question is why were these fragments of Shoemaker Levy spread out so much ? But all lined up pretty much one behind the other like beads on a string...Here is another speculation: These circulating currents within each fragment would generate their own magnetic fields which would interact with the magnetic field of Jupiter, slowing them down. Each fragment would have its own characteristics and would thus string out along with the other fragments accordingly. Lenz's Law applies here: when a current is induced in a conductor, a magnetic field is generated that opposes the action that produces the current.But since Shoemaker Levy was a 'comet' is was just a dirty snowball not expected to have any conductive minerals in it I suppose>

An interesting question now arises : Is there any correlation between the path of a meteor entering our atmosphere relative to the magnetic field and its likelihood of destruction/explosion ? If the path is less than perpendicular to the magnetic field, does this affect the likelihood of destruction? Do meteors slow down more than can be accounted for by atmospheric braking? Maybe this is a known phenomenon. I have not looked into it.

In that video from Cheryubinsk, a mini version of this lightning strike to earth seems to be what happened? I wonder if there was any evidence of lightning on the ground?

That would be very interesting! I wonder if anyone has gone out to look for that evidence.I have a knowledgeable contact in Russia. I'll ask him.

In a much more energetic event like 'The Eye of the Sahara', .... it even has that trademark electric discharge crater right on the rim of one of the central rings....

Another factor to consider is that the earth does not have a uniform impedance profile. In other words, where such a massive electric arc would choose to strike would depend on the earth beneath. One of the facts about the Tunguska Event for example, is that the epicenter is smack dab in the middle of the paleo volcano Mount Stojkovic. I don't think that's a coincidence. It's one of the threads of evidence that lead me to believe that the cause of that event was not a bolide. There are others.If anyone is interested, I put up a series of posts on a public FB page:https://www.facebook.com/groups/7933597313/?fref=nf

Just on one point about "seen forming just ahead of the bolide", be aware that windshield can produce a wide array of artifacts. And while I do not doubt that the meteor passed through incredible electric fields, don't discount the pure kinetics of the event.

And watch the windshield black spec blemish as it crosses over the shining, from 2:53 to 2:56, pause and rewind those two seconds over and over. Watch how the light which seems to shoot out from the front of the meteor tracks exactly in plane with that blemish. Which means that spec of light is actually a very tiny refraction in the windshield from small pit in the glass. And if you've ever Clayed your clear coat paint, or really closely examined a windshield, they are everywhere.

So I don't think your column discharge that you think you saw is accurate.

interstellar filaments conducted electricity having currents as high as 10 thousand billion amperes