“A U.S. Marine Corps veteran opened fire on a crowd of mostly college students and young adults dancing at a crowded country and western bar in a suburb of Los Angeles late on Wednesday, killing 12 people including a sheriff’s deputy,” Alex Dobuzinskis reports for Reuters. “Ventura County Sheriff Geoff Dean named the suspect, who was also killed, as Ian Long, aged 28. Dean told a news conference Long had likely shot himself.”

“He said he appeared to have shot at random, using only a Glock .45-caliber handgun. There was no known motive,” Dobuzinskis reports. “An unknown number of people were wounded in the shooting at the Borderline Bar and Grill, a popular venue with college students and young adults in the suburb of Thousand Oaks. Wednesday was dubbed ‘College Country Night.'”

“Dean said there were six off-duty law enforcement officers from various agencies in the bar when the shootings occurred, and some survivors said the law enforcement officers stood in front of them to protect them,” Dobuzinskis reports. “The dead officer was identified as Sergeant Ron Helus, a 29-year veteran of the department, Dean told reporters. Helus and a California Highway Patrol officer were the first to arrive at the bar and went inside just before 11:30 p.m. PST (0730 GMT). In a statement the sheriff’s office said there would be a procession in honor of Helus, who leaves behind a wife and son, on Thursday at 10 a.m. ‘Ron’s selfless, heroic actions will never be forgotten,’ the statement read.”

Apple CEO Tim Cook offered condolences via Twitter:

We are devastated by the senseless violence overnight in Thousand Oaks. Our hearts are with the victims and their loved ones — too many lives cut short and so many more forever changed. — Apple CEO Tim Cook

We are devastated by the senseless violence overnight in Thousand Oaks. Our hearts are with the victims and their loved ones — too many lives cut short and so many more forever changed.

Our condolences and prayers to the family and friends of the victims. Having lived for a time in Camarillo, California, less than 15 miles from the scene, this one hits close to home.

Along with praying for the victims, families, and friends, we most fervently pray that a system will be devised wherein the severely mentally ill will be identified early and helped before they degenerate to the point where such calamitous tragedies befall innocents. — MacDailyNews, February 15, 2018

That’s a nice sentiment, but by next week, with this news cycle, we’ll be well on to Ruth Bader Ginsburg finally croaking and who President Trump will replace her with or something else and this will be, unfortunately, forgotten. The time to talk about it is now.

So, when did these mass shooting really start in volume?

A 2014 Harvard study indicated that from 1982 to 2011, on average mass shooting incidents (defined as four or more people were murdered by firearms in one incident) occurred every 200 days. But since 2011, the trend has been turning upward sharply: There has been a mass shooting incident every 64 days on average.

In the same time period, American society became more secular. According to the 2016 Gallup tracking poll on religions in America, while nearly three-quarters of American describe themselves as Christians, roughly 18 percent say they are atheist or agnostic, the highest since 2008, when Gallup started the daily tracking poll.

In contrast, 9 in 10 American identified as Christian in the 1940s and 1950s, with most of the rest identified as Jewish; only 2-3 percent of people reported they had no formal religious identity.

Pew’s ARIS survey basically tells the same story. There is little doubt that Americans are leaving the Judeo-Christian religions.

Based on the history and past studies on violence and religions, it is possible to infer the effect of secularization on the rise of mass shootings.

The right to bear arms was a blessing when Americans believed in God and redemption; the combination of more than 300 million guns and a faithless people, however, is a recipe for disaster.

The funniest – or saddest – part of this? If this is the true cause, Democrats will never accept it and they will be the ones who are clearly the most responsible for the dramatic uptick in mass shootings.

I urge everyone who can still manage to read something with an open mind, to read this:

This is abysmal nonsense. The LEAST violent countries in the world are those that are the MOST SECULAR – e.g. Norway, Sweden, Denmark and more. The most violent countries in the world are all very religious… be it Christian, Buddhist or Muslim.

And with that increasing secularism, the US is still DRAMATICALLY more religious than any other western, developed nation.

“Gun control won’t stop guns.”
More nonsense. Again — look at Canada, those various European countries, New Zealand, Australia. The US stands alone — way, way outside any seemingly comparable countries — in the number of gun deaths.

As this one just popped up in my email, before the usual Lib nonsense begins:

This is what you get when secular media and the U.S. government wage a war on religion. Declared or not, it is a war. The Ten Commandments, including THOU SHALT NOT KILL, seen in public places is a reminder to at-risk people (mostly mentally-disturbed young males) that society and GOD are supremely against the evil of killing innocents.

The Second Amendment is not intended for just ordinary personal defense. Its intent was to guarantee the nation could never be overcome by any military power, foreign or domestic.

Shooters will get access to a gun, even with strict gun laws in place. For one example among thousands: In 2009, a German high school student went on a rampage and killed 15 people. He did not own a gun. He used his father’s 9 mm pistol. Even in a country with strict gun laws, a shooter was able to find one and use it.

Rampage shooters like soft targets. They’re targeting elementary schools, churches, and theaters – those idiotic “gun free zones” where the only person with the gun is the mass murderer – not places where you’d think guns are likely to be: Biker bars, Trump rallies, or a police station.

Prohibition didn’t stop alcohol. Gun control won’t stop guns.

You can have as many laws as you like, but only lawful people will follow them. Laws don’t apply to criminals.

Lastly, and this goes well beyond gun control, I have a message to every Lib on the planet: The world isn’t perfect, and you can’t regulate it to perfection.

Don’t pretend to be a bible thumper and then cheer when xenophobe Trump wastes taxpayers money to meet unarmed refugees with armed soldiers.

If you insist on following the 10 commandments then disband the military, as the weapons of death are antichristian no matter how you want to spin it. There’s no exception to “Thou shalt not kill.”

Liberals like your composite father/son/ghost/carpenter/community activist/ wandering prophet/Jew/notJew character Jesus found nonviolent means to resolve conflicts. Your orange hero Trump and every other post you barf up on this site indicates how little regard Trumpanzees have for literally following the commandments in your good book. Hypocrites.

That’s why the NRA needs to sponsor National Well Regulated Militia Week every year. Hand out free guns and beer and remind the wannabe lynch mobs that as long as it looks like self defense, all killing is justified. Eventually these fine people will certainly root out the bad hombres and mass murders will suddenly stop. Or there will be nobody left to kill, which is a good enough ending for Gobster.

/S

Gun toting fuckwits need to get a clue that law enforcement officers have enough to do without the added “help” of untrained self appointed possies who think they can stop mass murderers with sidearms.

GoeB

Sunday, November 11, 2018 - 8:26 pm ·

Every point you made in the last insulting paragraph is WRONG.

“Gun toting fuckwits” You have zero evidence everyone packing a firearm is unqualified. Three quarters of my gun carrying friends have college degrees, are responsible citizens and well versed in firearms. Private citizens are fully capable of assisting in situations until law enforcement officials arrive on scene and they do so every year. Thankfully, your clueless accusations and insults do nothing to change reality.

So you lasted all of nine minutes “respectful silence’ yourself? Nine minutes of deeply held respect! I call fake concern!
Ok, since that is is out of the way, instead of mumbling uselessly, how about addressing the tragedy and the need for change? That would be a fitting legacy wouldn’t you say

Agree with a heavy heart. There are many aspects to senseless violence. Recently I purchased the fiftieth anniversary edition of the Beatles White Album. I was only two when this musical and cultural tour de force was released, in 1968, a year of appalling American violence.

When I listen to it, I hear four songs that address gun violence. First, Revolution: “When you talk about destruction, don’t you know that you can count me out?” Second, Rocky Raccoon: “Rocky had come, equipped with a gun, to shoot off the legs of his rival.” Third, The Continuing Story of Bungalow Bill: “The children asked him if to kill was not a sin.” Fourth, Happiness is a Warm Gun: “When I hold you in my arms, and I feel my finger on your trigger, I know nobody can do me no harm.” She’s not a girl who misses much.

Thousand Oaks isn’t far from me. I saw the respectful procession of many people and even young school children along the route on local Los Angeles television all either saluting or holding their hands over their hearts for the fallen officer. It was very moving. My condolences to this nearly retired officer’s family and friends for his heroic action putting other people’s lives ahead of his own. Rest in peace Officer Helus.

Sure, Fred, i’ll bet you’d be the first to play hero against a marine with a Glock.

You can play whatif games as long as you like but the fact remains that the best way to prevent mentally unstable people from mass killing innocent victims is to prevent mentally unstable people from having easy access to weapons that can kill so many people so fast.

Being a former marine, I doubt that any casual gun owner would have prevented anything. A marine would efficiently destroy any threats instantly.

Had you read the reports, Long shot the bouncer and was inside shooting before anyone knew what was happening. The police arrived only 2 minutes later and despite knowing there was a shooter, being armed, and having extensive training, a police officer was killed.

Escalation of weapons is not the answer. Putting deadly weapons in the hands of armchair heros like Fred is not the answer. Praying to your sky friend is not the answer.

Psychological qualifications to own weapons is the obvious step in the right direction. It is called sensible gun control and every other nation seems to be able to pull it off without their gun owners getting their panties in a knot.

Which proves that people who use weapons for their day jobs actually want a place to relax and have fun in peace.

TowerTone

Friday, November 9, 2018 - 6:34 pm ·

Does it??

GoeB

Saturday, November 10, 2018 - 2:11 am ·

Personally not in law enforcement, but enjoy barley water at the local watering holes and I conceal carry every time. What is your point?…

Sir Cockney to you

Sunday, November 11, 2018 - 3:36 am ·

@Towertone: if they love guns so much, why would they ever put them down? Obviously the off duty cops wanted to enjoy the evening off.

People like you underestimate the heavy responsibility that wearing a gun is. With a badge, at least people know you’re trained good guy. Off duty in civvy clothes, packing heat just makes everyone around you uneasy or suspicious. Guns in a bar don’t mix except in spaghetti western saloons. Then they mix badly.

In my country, Australia, gun deaths per 100,000 is 1.04. In the United States it’s 11.96.

What’s the difference between the two countries? Is it because Americans are inherently a more violent people or is it because one country has extensive gun control and the other one is incapable (or unwilling) to do the same.

For the record the only countries that have higher death rates are in alphabetical order:

The United Staes also has the dubious distinction of being the only developed country in the aforementioned list and for the life of me I cannot understand the logic of allowing even more more guns in the community in the forlorn hope that it will reduce gun deaths.

In the land of Oz two statistics came to the fore after we heavily restricted access to firearms and that is both homicides and suicides sharply declined.

I really don’t think Americans and Australians are all that different except one country has a love for firearms and the other one doesn’t.

This latest example of gun related carnage will be in the public’s mind for about a week and then it’s business as usual at least until the next mass shooting.

As another Aussie, as I see it, America was founded on violent struggle, Australia was not. The right to bear arms is enshrined in the US Constitution as an inalienable right, in the Australian Constitution it is not.

Would you rather someone kill you with a gun, a knife or poison ? I think most people would say none of the above. When you look at the death rate of (per 100,000 inhabitant) by homicide (murder) then the United States is much lower on the list. 90th @ 5.3

There is a big difference between homocide and mass murder. A maniac with a gun can take lives by the dozens. With a knife, not so much.

As a hunter, i own and use different rifles and shotguns regularly. But I know it makes no sense to allow untrained unregistered people to have high capacity mags, automatics, bump stocks or rocket launchers. Easily concealed glocks in the hands of psychos are already scary enough. Why can’t the pro gun extremists understand this? Nobody wants to take guns away, they want to keep weapons of mass destruction out of the hands of psychos.

“Escalation of weapons is not the answer. Putting deadly weapons in the hands of armchair heros like Fred is not the answer.”

No one is calling for “escalation of weapons” so please spare us the partisan drama. You don’t know jack about Fred so don’t pretend you know his abilities, training or background before you flame him.

Average citizens prevent crimes in the U.S. more than you know from the clueless negligent biased liberal media that would like to see the Second Amendment repealed.

“Americans use guns for defensive purposes 1.2 million times each year — and that 1 in 6 Americans who have used guns defensively believe someone would have died but for their ability to resort to their defensive use of firearms.”

“No one is calling for “escalation of weapons””
LIARS LIE!
You, your ilk and your president have persistently pushed the notion that more guns save lives. In fact you are dumb enough to do so in the very next sentence!
“We should have armed guards in schools”
“It (synagogue shooting) wouldn’t have happened if they had an armed guard”
“Guns don’t kill…people do”
These are the arguments of the morally bankrupt who use “thoughts and prayers” to kill any sensible discussion at the time it might be meaningful – in the immediate aftermath of an outrage, who demonise any sensible extension of gun control as being un-American, who accuse gun-free area proponents of wanting to encourage mass shootings in playgrounds, who use a gross (mis)interpretation of Second Amendment rights to justify domestic terrorism since “they’re all nutters and we can’t do anything about it” whilst actively campaigning against creating a linked database of gun owners and psychologically unfit persons and illegal gun owners. Who propose the idea that “if we all had guns everyone would be too afraid to use them”. Morally bankrupt is hardly big enough to describe the cruel imposition of fear into ordinary lives that you defend as a constitutional right even as it transgresses all other rights in a civilised society.
You are the ‘true enemies of the people’.

I’ve said this before and it bears repeating – I would defend your right to own and use any weapon you desire, to kill and be killed, to live in fear of being terrorised, maimed for life in an exchange of senseless violence, never truly know who you can trust and to spend your whole life in a silo of imminent chaos, cruelty and delusion. The operative word being a ‘silo’. Cut off from the rest of a totally gun-free society where you can inflict as much moronic mayhem as you desire, where your self destructive egos can have truly unrestricted expression. Where dog eat dog is king and gun ownership is akin to a dick extension.
But no.. You insist that the majority who don’t own guns and have no interest in ever using one should be held hostage by a fraudulent minority peddling the myth that more guns is synonymous with ‘the American Way’ and that there is no link between mass killings and guns whilst refusing sensible gun control measures because you refuse to accept responsibility for policing your own fellow gun owners who do all the killing and even going so far as to blame victims for their own misfortune because they disagree with your ‘needs’.
Fortunately, if there is a deity, you will have to ultimately justify your hatred of the individual’s right to a life owned by no other.

Your “full story” is a lie, as I have pointed out before. Won’t bother with the details of the real story, since I did it before and they are readily discoverable.

In short, there was a survey of a self-selected sample of a few hundred people that asked “Have you ever used a firearm or the threat of a firearm to prevent a crime?” That includes running kids off your lawn by claiming you have a gun. Somebody later read the study and extrapolated to the entire US population, turning a dozen or two cases of “I’ve got a gun” into 1.2 million violent crimes prevented. The author of the original article has repudiated that fantasy.

But, hey, you can say anything, because “There’s no proof of anything.”

“No one is calling for “escalation of weapons””
LIARS LIE!
You, your ilk and your president have persistently pushed the notion that more guns save lives.”

NO, I am pushing the “notion” specifically that “good guys with guns stop bad guys with guns” and not EXCLUSIVE to the police or military. From the article I posted earlier:

“Americans use guns for defensive purposes 1.2 million times each year — and that 1 in 6 Americans who have used guns defensively believe someone would have died but for their ability to resort to their defensive use of firearms.”

Obviously you did not read the article and went off unhinged.

Bottom line: Law abiding citizens exercising their gun rights under the Second Amendment is just that and any law abiding citizen exercising choice to buy and carry firearms as they deem fit. That’s not “escalation” — it is business as usual for hundreds of years, so spare us the accusation drama.

I struggled to understand your rambling incoherent post and simply gave up. But this one stood out: “Where dog eat dog is king and gun ownership is akin to a dick extension.” How PROFOUND… 😆

Yawn….using ONE source, based on a phone poll and some twenty year old discredited research data that ‘opined’ a possible link without actually proving it, is a rerun of man made climate change denial where 0.1% of the scientific community or, “some scientists” as they say, disproves the theory of the other 99.9%.
Fraudulent dissembling of the first order.

So, is that akin to 86% of expert polls by degree holding professional pollsters and Pulitzer Prize journalists that had Hillary winning the presidency?

The fact is I know several private citizens that have deterred crimes with no one hurt. Did they talk to the media, local police, university studies professors, no, no and no. Parallel construction example to feminists saying for decades date rapes are vastly underreported. Same scenario for different reasons…

Trump won – get over it and stop hiding behind an anomaly. It is irrelevant to the argument and…as Botty used to say “your sophistry is wasted on me”
So personal anecdotal evidence is a reflection of nation-wide behaviour? Well if that were true there would be no crime if it was a deterrent. And that is obviously self evidently not true, even to a single cell amoeba.
But, you just carry on, in your bubble of self confidence, that you won’t ever be caught out, secure with your conceal-carry sheen of invincibility, caring not one not for those who fall outside your under reported faux statistics.
Cruel and irresponsible GoeB is cool. Everyone else can go pound sand.

Trump is blameworthy. He promised to ban bump stocks and since then dis nothing. He riles up his extreme rightie xeno nationalists. He engenders violent thoughts and rhetoric while heaping scorn on moderate reasoned reform. Trump doesn’t even get along with his own party, his rallies are designed to rile up the least informed, least community minded elements of society with. H A T E. The recent mail bomber and mass shooters were so full of this hate that they attempted mass murder. Trump’s response? Attack reporters.

“Pretend?” Quote me where I pretend, Mike. I’ll save you the trouble it does not exist. I don’t appreciate you putting words in my mouth or thoughts in my head and stopped reading right there.

Criminals DO NOT OBEY LAWS no matter how many you pass, hello? Anyone home?

Crime exists everywhere in the world every day and you can’t snap your fingers and wish it into the cornfield. Laws are just words on paper and will NOT stop criminals the same as painted numbers on an interstate highway sign will NOT stop speeding.

Ignoring the law has been going on for thousands of years. It is a part of life we are forced to deal with…

Mike is right. You PRETEND that regulation is ineffective. Yet other nations with different laws have lower incidences of mass murder.

It’s amazing how stupid you can be. Laws work because they shape public norms, ever since the 10 commandments. If you followed them …..

GoeB

Saturday, November 10, 2018 - 5:30 pm ·

“You PRETEND that regulation is ineffective.”

You are as clueless as Mike and also putting words in my mouth and thoughts in my head, just stop.

Because both of you MISINTERPRETED my posts and are “amazingly stupid,” I’ll try a final time to get it through your thick skulls and spell it out to avoid ambiguity.

Laws are GOOD, we need them. 100% support the “rule of law” worldwide. Without law and order we have anarchy, chaos and the rise of dictators (Stalin, Hitler, Castro, etc.), rogue areas and nations. It is a fact we have over 200,000 gun laws in the U.S.and they should ALL be obeyed by ALL citizens and a mass shooting should never occur again!

Now that I got the fantasy wishful thinking out of the way, and pay close attention, LAWS DO NOT STOP OR ELIMINATE CRIMINALS. Never have and never will.

There is no additional gun control law the smartest people in the world could pass that will ELIMINATE crimes with guns. Current laws have not worked in Chicago to stop gun murders and everywhere else on the planet.

We deal with criminals and God Bless the brave men and women in blue. Illegals, gangs and sanctuary cities are excluded and get an emotional PASS by the Democratic party for votes, shameful. So how do you expect all other citizens that see and know this selective disparity and expect criminals in the making to follow the law? Answer: No way Jose…