OK, I hope this isn't too much of a stretch - I have a friend who's looking for a good sounding transistor amp for under $1000.

Not long ago, someone mentioned a really good sounding transistor amp that I think was class D, and only about $850 or so? It's not often someone says they like a transistor amp, so it caught my attention, but I'm terrible with names.

Anyone happen to recall what amp this was? I thought it was one of our regulars who posted it...I'm hoping you see this and chime in! ;)

Seems to me Maddog may have mentioned a solid state amp he thought was really good (and perhaps cheaper than 850?)...but like you, I don't exactly recall. I am thinking it was a conversation with Stone.

I may be wrong, but I believe Lon was talking about an amp fitting this description (several weeks ago?). This particular amp is currently being made in Ohio, and in at least one variation, the price was under $1000.

Eric, I'm taking a break from posting as you know but here is the amp I was talking about earlier this year. DALAudio, made here in Westlake, Ohio. Not sure if this is what you were remembering.

Oddly enough this amp was the opposite of almost all the amps that I have had before in that I liked it more pre-burnin than I did later, but it's still a good amp for the money, and doesn't have a lot of grain and grit that other solid state amps at these price points tend to. It's biggest weakness is that I have Decware amps to compare it to, and what can stand up to that in imaging and sound staging? It has a bit of both but the Decware amps have more. Tonal balance was pretty good, didn't have the body of the EL34 Decware amps though.

I got this one for less than 400 dollars (and picked it up at the plant). Don't believe it is a Class D amp, it's a Gain Clone amp, aren't they like AB-A?

"Stone… I think you are into “rez”. I got one for you to give a go… get yourself a Class D Audio SDS-470c amp and put it on your SDA-SRS’…. Then sit back and brace yourself… I have never heard transient speed, snap, dynamics and rez like this from "anything" - sand based or valves - at any price. It will flat-out scare you at times. Your SDA's will need the bass brace connected to keep them from toppling over backwards! I do not jest... and if/when you check out the price of one, you'll be even more stunned & amazed!"

More complete talk from Maddog on this amp a few posts down in the same thread... post 64

For those on a budget wanting traditional A/B class amps Emotiva offers price/value that is hard to beat. They are direct sales only with 30 day return policies. I have a pair of their powered speakers for my PC and they are amazing paired with an AudioQuest DragonFly DAC.

He's interested in tubes, but doesn't think he can afford them. He wants something at least up to the level of his speakers so I thought one of those budget transistor amps mentioned above might work for him.

Sorry... LR.. I missed this thread. Yes the ClassDaudio SDS-470c was the "sand" amp/solid state "chip amp" I referred to. I believe it is based on International Rectifier amp chips, but it has a linear power supply(not switch mode). I would have to know what kind of speakers your friend has before I could recommend this amp whole heartedly. It is a very good solid state amp if "rez" and P.R.A.T. is your thing and your speakers need some juice and life injected. This amp has a fantastic synergy with Magnepans - at least every Maggie I've heard it strapped to so far - 3 different models. As good on Mags as anything I've ever heard. I have a friend who unloaded his "takes two strong men to carry" Pass Labs amp and replaced it with one of these 20lb wonders to drive his 3.6 Maggies...

Even though I have of course hooked it up to my high-sensitivity, full-range, single driver, crossoverless speakers to see what it sounded like... not ideal for them at all, but not as undesirable as I expected it to sound either. My Torii MK.III is "the amp"for these. But for my other more conventional speakers in the stable, including my Martin Logan stats... the ClassD SDS-470c "gets it done" in a big way where the Torii simply can not due to power limitations.

I can reveal another "sleeper" amp also, that almost nobody in home audio has ever seen or heard... the Ashly FTX-2001. You can buy these for near nothing these days if $$$ is of prime importance for your friend. Ashly does not make this model anymore, but they do support the series III version of it, last I checked, which was this past September. The Series III was the last version made. These are class A/B amps with mosfet outputs.. I have owned more than one of these amps over the course of 20 years... they are the best sounding "pro" amps I've ever heard and can more than hold their own with a lot of "home oriented" hifi amps. Easily besting the Rotels I've heard... and the Emotiva's (I've had the Emotiva XPA-2 and 3 and still have an XPA-5 in the HT) so I have heard them side-by-side. I just sold the FTX-2001 series II that I've owned for about 10 years to a friend a couple of months ago. After I discovered the ClassD SDS-470c... I finally decided I didn't need to keep the Ashly around as a spare/backup anymore. Friend had a Rotel RB-990bx - and the Ashly pretty much annihilated it, across the board in a direct, volume matched A/B. Ashly is a great company to deal with too; fast, efficient and fairly priced. I destroyed the input board in a FTX-2001 once - my fault entirely... Ashly sent me a replacement for $40... had it in two days - they are modular being "pro amps" and are designed to be "field serviceable" - pop a few screws on the case, unplug the fried board, plug-in the new one - back in biz in 5 minutes. I have a friend who uses the smaller version of the Ashly, the FTX-1501 and has had it about 15 years... no issues, still going strong. Its the exact same amp, fewer output devices, smaller power supply, about 1/2 the power of the 2001. Sounds exactly the same within its power capabilities.

I'm kind of ashamed to admit it... but I've probably owned 50+ amps during the course of my pursuit of the audio holy grail. and if you add in the # that have passed thru my listening room on audition from a dealer or borrowed from a friend... oh boy... a bunch. If you want to send me an email (LR we have exchanged email directly on the regenerator topic recently) and give me some details on your friends speakers, room, sources what type of music he likes and what is "his thing"audio-wise, I might be able to offer some useful suggestions for him to consider.

I'm still trying to figure out what he wants and what kind of music he plans on listening too. I think right now he's just more wrapped up in the mystique of tubes. He's not brought it up in a few days, so I'll see what he says.

I still have the PS Audio P3 on my radar. If I can dig up some more cash beyond the Mystery Amp, I'm all for trying one out!

My point exactly beowulf… I discovered the Ashly FTX’s many, many moons ago when I rented some fairly serious Pro Sound gear from a local Large Venue Sound reinforcement company for an event we were hosting. The Pro Sound company told me the Ashly’s were the only pro-sound amps they had ever heard that could be put on a horn loaded compression tweeter and be able to stand the sound. After our event, me being the audiofool I am, had to put one of the amps in my 2-ch home setup, before I returned the equipment to see how it sounded. Much to my surprise, it sounded pretty good. Bought one shortly after that and have had at least one around ever since, until my recent “inventory reduction” house cleaning…

Papa Pass seems to favor SIT's these days... because he says they behave like Triode tubes...!!!! ;D

maddog07 said,Papa Pass seems to favor SIT's these days... because he says they behave like Triode tubes...!!!! ;D

Yes, you would think after the review that 6moons did on the SIT-1 and 2 that they are the best thing since sliced bread! I wouldn't mind hearing one of those to see what all the fuss was about though.

yeah.. so would I, but they are expensive.. and rather scarce as there was/is a limited quantity of the SIT devices available... I think NP had a special run of them built for him by SemiSouth which has since then closed it's doors I believe.

For under $1k ss amps I recommend ATI. US made, 7 year warranty. They're your basic textbook solid state amp with excellent performance. The AT602 is ~$300, 60w/ch very conservatively rated, the AT1202 ~$600, 120w/ch. I have an AT602 and it's a superb little amp.

I had an ATI once upon a time... ATI-1502... built like the proverbial brick out house.. rock solid performer, typical solid state sound.. a little cool, forward, dry and on the lean side. Very dynamic and solid, controlled bottom end... would be a great amp for a passive subwoofer. I would be really surprised if anybody who has heard or owns a Decware amp and high-efficiency speakers would find this amps sound to their liking.. but that's a decision only the individual can make.

Well, now you've encountered a Decware owner with high sensitivity speakers who likes both. The ATI has no sonic signature whatsoever, and that's part of the appeal for me. Decware can be a bit of a roller-coaster ride of near psychedelic and thrilling musical immersion, and it's nice to come down with some un-embellished linearity once in a while. I still manage to appreciate the music.

I'm seriously interested in discovering what high-efficiency, full-range, crossoverless speakers it is that you pair with the ATI that you like so well. For over 30 years I have been a solid-state kinda guy. But the flea-watt SET amps and Lowther-type speakers I heard at RMAF every year always took me to places that my solid-state electronics and conventional multi-driver, xover type speakers never did. Then I discovered Decware amps and a source of affordable DIY high-efficiency full-range drivers. This combo makes music in my room as good as I've ever heard - at any price – if realistic tone and naturally presented resolution are your thing. I am not a tube-snob.. quite the opposite. If I could get this kind of sound without glowing hot glass that has to be broken-in, warmed up, replaced periodically, etc. - I'm all in - bring it on!

I still have more than one pair of conventional so-to-speak speakers and solid state amps. And I appreciate what they do. But every solid state amp I've ever drove the high-efficiency, full-range, xoverless speakers with produced a dry, etched, bleached out, thin sound compared to the Torii & Rachael that I have owned.... and I have tried/heard some very highly regarded solid state amps of varying designs.

You state that the ATI has no sonic signature... OK.. I'll accept your opinion. But everything has a sonic signature IMO. "No sonic signature" compared to what? What is your "reference"? Real, live music, the average of other solid state amps you've heard - you have to have a "reference". I purport that all amps have a sonic signature. Especially when you compare amps of different basic designs; i.e. tubes versus solid state, Class A/B versus pure Class A, mosfet.vs.bi-polar transistors, etc. Also, nearly all amps in a given category typically have share at least some sonic characteristics that are inherent to the design. I had the ATI-1502 for several years, and used it with several different speakers in my 2-ch system and in our HT. I also compared it to a multitude of solid-state amps that passed thru my hands while I owned it as well. I think, and of course this is just my opinion... that it's sound was typical of well-engineered class A/B solid-state amps that use bipolar transistor output devices.

I'm not trying to be confrontational here by any means or trying to start some flaming war - no point in that. Hearing is a perception and it is an individual perception at that - no absolutes at all. I was merely expressing my opinion based on my experience. And I am sincerely interested in the combo you have that you find so much to your liking w/the ATI amp. Please share.

No worries Maddog, I'm not offended in the least, but you may be disappointed as your whole response seems based upon a misunderstanding. The high sensitivity speakers I was referring to were not single driver types.

You're correct that when these full range speakers are driven with a solid state amp they tend to sound kind of "broadcasty." Most have stiff suspensions, and when you mix that with a low output impedance amp you get too much overall damping. Hook them to an amp with higher output impedance and they come to life. Having been to several RMAFs, I have no doubt your system would just mop the floor with most of what's on display.

I don't subscribe to many of the beliefs that drive the whole hi-fi fashion show. Regardless of operational class, output devices, or whatever else, amps that have low distortion, low output impedance, that are linear across the audible band, and not clipped tend to be indistinguishable. This has been demonstrated time and time again. It's when you throw in things like harmonic distortion at audible levels or output impedance mediated effects that an amp has a sonic signature.

well... I thought that's what you were talking about ski bum! sorry I too have some "high sensitivity" 3-ways with xovers.. i.e vintage Klipsch... and these also sound way better(to my ears) with my Decware Torii than they do with my Krell, Emotiva, Ashly or my ClassDaudio amps.... I'm just sayin'.... synergy is key.

I have heard world-class sound at RMAF in several rooms.. but that it is not the norm I'm sad to say. What I find a bit ironic is that some of the best and in some cases "most expensive" equipment available and that has the potential to produce great sound, many times could rate as "worst sound" at the show. Sometimes it's easy to see the problem - sometimes not. But the real WTF is going on thought for me, is that the person in charge of the display/room/system doesn't seem to realize just how bad their setup sounds... at least to most people visiting the room. I just want to ask these folks, "have you been to any other rooms here to check-out the sound"?

I don't buy-in to boutique, eye-candy hi-fi just for that sake either. A majority of the time, the most expensive part of a component is in the chassis, heat sinks, face-plate, finish. Anybody "in the biz" that you can get to be honest with you, will admit that to you. But I do know by a statistically significant margin, that amps can, and in may cases do, sound different. More times than I can enumerate over my years in this hobby, I have had 4, 5, 6 or more amps on-hand for audition. In fact, I never buy a new component of any kind without being able to compare it directly to the one I currently own. I have a few audio buddies and we conduct A/B/X volume-matched(voltage measured at the speaker binding posts) listening tests on each other. Each of us has a set of "reference" music that we use for these tests. Not all the time, but the majority of the time we discover that all of us can not only hear differences, but can also reliably define what the differences are. And even be in agreement as to how a given component sounds. What we have also found, that at first was somewhat surprising, was that even though we each can hear the differences, and even agree on "what" the differences are - we almost never all "like" the same component.I think this just reinforces my belief that hearing is an "individual perception". And this "perception" is different for everybody. If you think you hear it - you do. If you think you Do Not hear it - you don't - period, end of argument. Nobody can tell anybody else what they hear or do not hear... try though they may. The best we can do is to share what we think we hear. We will find that there will be some that hear the same or similar as each of us - and some that don't.This is really another topic, but related... if you follow professional reviewers. I'm talking about reviewers that have been reviewing for decades and in a multitude of magazines and media. You will come to learn what "kind" of sound the given reviewer likes. And then if you audition some of the same equipment that reviewer favors for yourself, you can establish a pretty good frame of reference for whether or not you are likely to prefer a component the given reviewer likes.

One thing's for certain, it's a good thing there is such a variety of equipment out there... cause we all have different sonic tastes and priorities... and this is also one of the things that makes this hobby so interesting and so much fun. This is a journey to which there is no definitive "end"... there is only, "what I like today"... but tomorrow brings a new dawn of audio discovery...