Also, you guys, I'm sorry if I'm coming across badly because I'm new, but there are now 5 votes on me and two more would end the day while it's still in the random shitposting phase. I don't think that's a good idea.

Quick, you were literally replying to the post above yours just there. We can see what Chisa wrote. If it was a quote from 3 pages ago, sure. But I don't get why you constantly cut and paste each other's quotes?

I'm partly complaining because you'd get a lot more on a page if you guys didn't constantly feel the need to quote each other - because the quotes take up space on the page. They actually make it harder to follow the thread because of the space they take up.

@Aubrey - I'm sorry, maybe it's just a communication clash because this is the first time we've encountered each other. Your tone struck me as condescending - but perhaps that was just how I interpreted it, and not your intention. Not to worry, let's move on.

I've explained my scumread on Awoo, who I'm currently voting for.

My scumread on Assemblerot is based on a combination of his behaviour in this game so far, and something he said in the original game which was re-rolled. What he said back there was that he realises he often lurks, and will try to be much more involved on this occasion. When the re-roll happened, he posted early and looked like he was trying to be (or appear) involved, but then melted away and hasn't posted again.

Over on webDip / vDip we've got this guy, VashtaNeurotic, who combines horrible lurking with regular promises not to lurk. There was a game a while back where I think he made 20 posts in the whole game, of which 11 or 12 were "I'm just catching up with the thread, I'll have some comments soon" and then never did.

Assemblerot is currently striking me as that kind of lurker, and I don't like it. So it's not *just* anti-lurker bias, but anti-lurker bias linked to Assemble's promise that he'd be active in this game.

@Lucca261: Reasonable question - my scumread of you is based primarily on the manner of your vote for Cheeky, which you made without giving any kind of proper reason - yet you felt the need to say this was a "serious vote". Then your subsequent unwillingness to explain yourself. Townies explain their votes because this helps other townies to investigate. Also Awoo, who I scumread, defended you but with little explanation. That could be confirmation bias, I accept. We'll see.

For the second part of your question, I'm leaning town on Cheeky because she's explaining her thoughts and actions, and is asking questions and scumhunting. Also she's buddying me and I like being buddied (jk).

@Quick: "How sure of these reads are you at this time?"

- Not very. It's Day 1 mate. Anyone who is sure of their reads on Day 1 is probably scum. Or massively over-confident. Lucca is one or other of those things.

In post 43, Jamiet99uk wrote:Also, you guys, I'm sorry if I'm coming across badly because I'm new, but there are now 5 votes on me and two more would end the day while it's still in the random shitposting phase. I don't think that's a good idea.

I have no idea how to take this comment it doesn't feel that genuine that I would expect from a new player wouldn't mind a wagon on this still

@Maki - Could you explain this statement please? I don't understand what you mean by "that I would expect from a new player wouldn't mind a wagon on this still"

In post 208, lucca261 wrote:let me get back in the game by making a quick "what I think of each player":

Jamie: yeah, I'm kinda of torn about his slot. he's using the newbie card a lot, more that I would like. when I was a newbie, the last thing I wanted was to people to point I was a newbie. he's using subtle language to point how he is a new player since the start, on things like 43, 71 and 128. and the mix of an apologetic approach, seen on 43, with an agressive approach, seen on the rest of his posts, especially against Aubrey, concerns me, and makes me think that the tone on 43 was the tone of a concerned player, that was using the newbie card to at least get more air, when he had five votes against him.on the other hand, I think that the things he is questioning are ok, and I liked his response to me about why he scumreads me. I also don't think that a player that seems so eager to fit in with the meta would be such an eager scum player, with lot of posts and questions. so right now, I would say that the slot is on the complete middle to me.question: what do you think of Maki vote/unvote on awoo?

Good question. Maki's vote on Awoo wasn't very well explained. It seemed to just be a vote because Maki thought Awoo's comment to me was a bit shitty, rather than necessarily scummy. So I wasn't that surprised when Maki was unvoted - didn't appear a very sincere vote in the first place.

In post 244, Epic Fial wrote:Lots of fluuuuuuufffffffffffff from Jamie, and his wagon dissolved faster than a fast-relief aspirin in a vat of hydrochloric acid. I'd like to see the pressure maintained longer.

Don't like this line. Do you think it mattered if you had a reason or not that early in the game? To me you're pushing something either alignment could have done forward and saying "scum wouldn't do it".

More later, I owe this game some actual content.

Having re-read Awoo I no longer scumread him (not her, sorry it was the female picture). Awoo seems to be looking carefully at people's reactions which is good scumhunting play. I particularly agree with this response to Lucca261. It's egregiously scummy to want to know what people think you would do or say as scum (so you can later avoid doing or saying things that will get you scumread).

If it's me you're talking to, I'd just say that if I changed my vote every time someone said something suspect, I'd have to move my vote at least once a page. I don't like throwing my vote around willy-nilly, like some other people seem to enjoy. Plus voting for Assemble at this point might not give very much info since he's asked to be replaced. Having said that, I don't like replacements getting a free pass.

First was a shitphase joke vote on CommKnight. Second was his "serious vote" schtick on Cheeky. Some sort of rxn test, we suppose, but in the conversation in 113 and 117 he says it wasn't and he apparently knew Cheeky was scum for sure, that early (without explanation).

Post 139 doesn't know how anyone can have strong reads (and yet 22 posts before that he was sure of his scumread on Cheeky).

Up to that point - pretty hedgy and scummy.

Then from 208 onwards we get some more detailed, less abrasive posts from Lucca which seem more inquisitive and involved. His questioning of me seems reasonable - and he finally explains his early push on Cheeky.

@Lucca: Why did it take until 203 to explain why you scumread Cheeky on 59?

In post 308, Jamiet99uk wrote:Having re-read Awoo I no longer scumread him (not her, sorry it was the female picture). Awoo seems to be looking carefully at people's reactions which is good scumhunting play. I particularly agree with this response to Lucca261. It's egregiously scummy to want to know what people think you would do or say as scum (so you can later avoid doing or saying things that will get you scumread).

VOTE: UNVOTE until I can properly reread Lucca.

So let me get this straight. You originally scumread the slot, but that slot didn't keep your interest that much moving forward until you were pressured into expanding on your read? This is a red flag to me. If you scum-read a slot, they should hold a good amount of your attention. As the slot begins to change, shouldn't you take note of that instead of being forced into recap? It's stuff like this that hints artificially suspecting people to me.

/quote]

Why do you call people "slots"? Why not "them" or "that person"? What a weird word choice. As for your question, it was an early, although sincere, vote - and I hadn't seen fit to move it. Lalendra is doing the exact same thing with a vote from the shitphase still being on me because, as Lalendra has said, they haven't had a better option yet. Do you scumread Lalendra for that behaviour, Aubrey?

@CommKnight: While I'm still playing: So, do you agree to the following?

- If I sheep your vote this turn, and (y)our target is lynched, and flips TOWN, then you agree that YOU will be the lynch tomorrow, and to that ens, will vote for yourself tomorrow in those circumstances?

I'm not quitting. I just don't see the point in this website if the games are so shit that half the players quit during the course of an average game like CommKnight has suggested. This game has already had what I'd regard as a worryingly high level of replacements...

Also, Lucca, please give some commentary on why you said in Post 139 that you were amazed anyone had any reads, and yet before that you'd been super-sure of your scumread on Cheeky. Tell us about that apparent inconsistency please?

The reaction to my challenge to CommKnight was very interesting. Everyone who said it was a bad idea is entirely correct. Of course I don't want CommKnight to commit to suiciding if he's town and gets his D1 read wrong. That would be a waste.

My intention in proposing this apparently mad idea was twofold. First of all, to dissuade CommKnight from being too cocky about his gut, and anyone else from just slavishly following him. Secondly, I wanted too see people's reactions. I'm going to spend some time assessing those later today.

For the record I do stand by my assertion that a VT should not be afraid to die. A VT dying is not as good as scum dying, for sure - but it's way better than a PR dying. Plus, flips are informative. A lot of people have interacted with me today and if I died, those interactions could provide many clues.

That said, all things considered I'd prefer to stay alive, and I'm definitely town, so if you've got a good scumread, go for them - and tell us why. It's time to start bringing this phase home, my fellow townsfolk.

The reaction to my challenge to CommKnight was very interesting. Everyone who said it was a bad idea is entirely correct. Of course I don't want CommKnight to commit to suiciding if he's town and gets his D1 read wrong. That would be a waste.

My intention in proposing this apparently mad idea was twofold. First of all, to dissuade CommKnight from being too cocky about his gut, and anyone else from just slavishly following him. Secondly, I wanted too see people's reactions. I'm going to spend some time assessing those later today.

For the record I do stand by my assertion that a VT should not be afraid to die. A VT dying is not as good as scum dying, for sure - but it's way better than a PR dying. Plus, flips are informative. A lot of people have interacted with me today and if I died, those interactions could provide many clues.

That said, all things considered I'd prefer to stay alive, and I'm definitely town, so if you've got a good scumread, go for them - and tell us why. It's time to start bringing this phase home, my fellow townsfolk.

So... was that thing where you told people not to lynch the masons the same type of thing?

Erm, no. It was something else. I don't wish to discuss that at the moment.

The reaction to my challenge to CommKnight was very interesting. Everyone who said it was a bad idea is entirely correct. Of course I don't want CommKnight to commit to suiciding if he's town and gets his D1 read wrong. That would be a waste.

My intention in proposing this apparently mad idea was twofold. First of all, to dissuade CommKnight from being too cocky about his gut, and anyone else from just slavishly following him. Secondly, I wanted too see people's reactions. I'm going to spend some time assessing those later today.

For the record I do stand by my assertion that a VT should not be afraid to die. A VT dying is not as good as scum dying, for sure - but it's way better than a PR dying. Plus, flips are informative. A lot of people have interacted with me today and if I died, those interactions could provide many clues.

That said, all things considered I'd prefer to stay alive, and I'm definitely town, so if you've got a good scumread, go for them - and tell us why. It's time to start bringing this phase home, my fellow townsfolk.

1) Not sure if I believe this was all a ploy, or if this is backpedaling and "I MEANT TO DO THAT."2) Remember how we were trying not to out the masons? Saying you're VT is narrowing the pool. We already talked about this. Stahp.3) "I'm definitely town, fellow townsfolk" is the most LAMIST post I've ever seen.

In post 441, Lalendra wrote:In response to people telling you that your "challenge" to CK was a bad idea, you posted this:

In post 410, Jamiet99uk wrote:For the record I do stand by my assertion that a VT should not be afraid to die. A VT dying is not as good as scum dying, for sure - but it's way better than a PR dying. Plus, flips are informative. A lot of people have interacted with me today and if I died, those interactions could provide many clues.

You certainly didn't seem afraid to die, and said that your flip would be informative. For me that really sounds like you are soft-claiming VT.

In post 446, Lalendra wrote:Yes, my continuing to push you on things you've said and refuse to defend, and calling you out on your unwillingness to explain yourself, is obviously just unfounded tunneling.

Perhaps your intention is well-founded and you just have no idea what I might be doing, but it's still tunnelling and it's not very helpful at this point. It's just becoming repetitious.

Wait a second.... When does this phase end? I thought we had 14-day long Day phases? That's what I'm sure the Mod said when we started. But now I notice that when the game began the Mod announced there were 7 days until the phase ended. That would mean that Day 1 has already ended.

In post 467, CommKnight wrote:Definitely a bit firmer of a readlist than before. I want to brush Jamiet off as a noob!Town. But his play is just soo scummy. Like I don't know any other site that I have ever played on that would read his play as town. So I can't even say "Oh, it's the culture over there." Because I bet if I entered the site, it definitely isn't.

<cut>

Jamie I know you have experience elsewhere but I really recommend playing in a newbie game where you get people playing who are "trained" to give you a handle on how things work on MS. The games are still competitive and fun imo.

Thanks Cheeky. As it happens, I joined this site in September (I think) and put my name down for several newbie games as well joining this queue. This was just the first one that started. The newbie games don't appear to get set up that oftwn. Certainly I've been in the newbie queue for over a month without a game starting.

I will respond to CommKnight in a moment. Give me a second, I'm posting by phone.

Definitely a bit firmer of a readlist than before. I want to brush Jamiet off as a noob!Town. But his play is just soo scummy. Like I don't know any other site that I have ever played on that would read his play as town. So I can't even say "Oh, it's the culture over there." Because I bet if I entered the site, it definitely isn't.

Also his bitching about the mod and replacements seems like he's trying to push the topic away from himself. Blaming it on the community when every mafia forum I used before this has always had a reserve list in case of site flakes or people taking on more than they can handle at the time. This is the first site where the game begins without a reserve list already made up that I've been to though. But that also means a lot of other sites are use to people replacing out or bailing as well. So his attitude is unneeded.

I think I'm just waiting to see some flips though before I can get into figuring this one out. There's a few ways it can go and I'm trying to do it where mafia are forced to out themselves.

@CommKnight: Which sites have you played on? List them.

Most of my experience comes from webDiplomacy on which nearly all the games are 18-25 player theme games. In that environment gambits are common and are not necessarily alignment indicative.

As for my complaint about replacements - yes, the odd substitution is unfortunately a neccessity. On webDip and vDip we'd have a subs list before the game begins (and I totally agree with you, that ought to be standard practice here). But we've had, what is it, four subs? In a 13-player game? I'm reassured to know that's not normal here, but it did kinda worry me. That's all. Certainly not AI.

I think Epic is right. You are less of a genius veteran super l-player than your ego thinks you are. Now you're voting me for completely non alignment indicative reasons.

In post 468, Awoo wrote:Jamie is becoming a policy lynch.A policy lynch that I support.VOTE: jamiet99ukBecause otherwise it's too obvious who's getting mason'd, and that's bad. At least when we remove this from the game there is a good layer of ambiguity who the copshot lands on.

Is it bad if I think this slot isn't reaaaaaaly going to flip scum? I don't think this lynch is terrible for town as we also get some info on who's on wagons and stuff, who pushed him throughout the day, etc. But I don't reaaaly think it's going to flip scum.

A lot of my scumreads are on this wagon and I feel bad in that regard but read above.

I THINK THIS IS L-1

You are misreading my intentions. I'm not attempting to get Masoned. If I am not a Mason the Masons should definitely not attempt to Mason me. I would strongly discourage any such action!

Awoo must be certain I am town, and yet is trying to lynch me. The whole theory that I'm trying to get masonized makes no sense if you think I'm scum - because there's no way scum would want the masons to confirm their role. Thus Awoo knows I am town and is nevertheless attempting to lynch me.

#171 on Lucca was constructive and towny and similar to my own thoughts as expressed at #149.

The #170/ #172/ #173 exchange with Maki on re-read just makes Northside look more Town and Maki look even more scum. Maki's post at 170 was just false, a complete mis-representation of Northside's actions and NS responded calmly. Maki's response was really quite weak.

#177, #182 and #188 strike me as genuine and investigative, or in the case of 188 explaining her approach to invesigative play. Pressing the point on Lucca in #222 and #226 likewise investigative, sensible, towny, trying to progress the game.

At #364 she responded very sensibly to my rxn test vs CommKnight.

On that same train of thought #496 hopefully now speaks for itself - certainly Awoo's "policy lynch" on me was either incredibly ill thought out, or incredibly scummy, and NS's reaction to it was the correct reaction in my view (and I'm not just saying that because it reduced the pressure on me).

Northsidegal is a strong townread for me, and on re-read nothing has changed in that respect. Why are people strongly scum-reading her, exactly?

#372 Says hello (no content)#374 Identifies that CommKnight is in the game, and takes the trouble to point out that CommKnight is experienced in open setups.#375 Declares that CommKnight can sometimes be misread but is definitely town in this game.

Let's just stop at this point. This bothers me. Of the first 7 posts made by this slot, 4/7 are devoted to painting CommKnight as some kind of town hero whose reads must be respected. Why would both the initial player in this slot, and their replacement, devote so much positive attention to CommKnight?

In post 603, CommKnight wrote:Note: Everyone who has experience with me are townreading me.

Think on that for a moment and then look at your reads.

Either I'm magically scum with everyone I've played with before or they're posting their actual read of me. Hmmm. What one could it be.

Also note that Flavor TR's me but I don't TR him. We've had multiple games together (same as the predecessor Assemble).

But you know, let's act like the TI and pretend that it's a conspiracy.

Just because some of them may "actually" townread you doesn't magically mean they're all correct. This is your best defence? A raw appeal to meta? You behaved this way as town before, so you MUST be town today? Bull. Shit.

Maybe if you spent a bit more time scumhunting, and a bit less time shouting at everyone who disagrees with you and telling us how big your testicles are, I'd have more sympathy with you.

As it is, you apparently just want everyone to follow you out of religious faith rather than for any logical reason, like you're the town messiah.

In post 600, Flavor Leaf wrote:CommKnight was one of the players that I recognized yet didn’t have a lot of experience with, as the game I did play with him, I replaced in, targeted him, didn’t put a lot of effort into it, then got night kill. Aubrey is kind of the same way. I don’t play a lot of open games. Not my thing. Generally I recognize the majority of players in games, maybe just not one or two, but over here that is not the case. Even the players I’m more familiar with I don’t have much experience with.

This is a very poor explanation in light of my question / observation regarding Assemblerotws being all "Comm is so great at reads!! You should all trust him!!" and then your first post about Comm basically being a declaration that you'd townread him all day today regardless.

In post 729, Awoo wrote:How to get townread by jamie: quantity > quality. By my calculations, the content of this post should confirm me as town in jamie's eyes.

Spoiler:

im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im

town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im tow

n im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im

town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im to

wn im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town

im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im

town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town im town

(I'm actually not going to rule out this mindset as noobtown thinking effort == towniness, but a red flip on quick is pretty damn incriminating to jamie.)

You're the third most prolific poster in the game and I scumread you, so clearly that's not true. Keep on making shit up, go ahead.

In post 733, lucca261 wrote:@jamie, do you townread me? because your read on my slot seems to change to further your narrative.

I find you hard to read. I've been inclined to scumread you at times yet you do seem investigative at least some of the time as well. I'm currently leaning town. I said there were four scum in CommKnight, Awoo, Lalendra and you, and right now I'm of the opinion it's the first two.

In post 740, Quick wrote:For Comm, I don't think he ever really says he should be town read, but I can totally see him using like some kinda subliminal messaging which is trying to push the agenda that he is Town.

In post 783, Aubrey wrote:I'm going to be direct and somewhat cold about this. If I feel like you're scraping by, and your content isn't matching the norm in your catchups, and you say' "well life is busy" I straight up won't give a damn. I'm understanding to a busy schedule, holidays, and RL troubles but at some point your content has to fully make up and account for that lack of activity.

Quick is at L-1He is not claiming.He says he wants to be lynched.I think he is VTI think his response to *thinking* Aubrey's vote was the hammer was either the response of a VT or a very sore loser.

I also think these 14 day long phases are totally absurd. We've long since reached a point where people are a bit switched off and waiting for the phase to end. There's just no need for day phases of this stupid length. Whose idea was it?

I will hammer Quick if that's what he actually wants. It will give us some new information to talk about, at least.

^ Next in line for scum lynch. I got class at the moment... but that was an epic fail on more than one instances.

1.) For pointing out it wasn't the hammer. (Hint: When you can make someone believe it's the hammer, push them to admit they're scum)..

More bullshit from CommKnight.

First of all, go back and actually look at what happened in the moments immediately after Aubrey declared the (incorrect) hammer. If you bother to do that you'll notice Quick did react, well before anyone pointed out the vote wasn't at 7. It was actually Awoo, not me, who pointed out the phase wasn't ending yet. And yet it's me, not Awoo, who you're attacking fot this. So:

- It was Awoo and not me who drew attention to the fact the hammer hasn't dropped,- Quick had already responded in any case by that point, - So voting for this alleged reason is based on either a mis-reading of events, or a bullshit false narrative.

Second of all, using the game mechanics, rather than your deductive skills, to trick people into revealing things should be considered cheating. It would be on some other sites. You're a piece of shit, and a bad sport, Comm.

In post 813, lucca261 wrote:look at this reaction to the fake hammer. look at how he wants to be excused for the hammer he was about to do. he knew quick was flipping town. his 790 is just making that not so obvious.

Holy cocksucking christ. I was attempting to persuade Quick not to demand his own death.

I'm town. The thing I didn't want to explain was that I spent the early part of this phase attempting to imply I was a slightly n00b Mason who wanted to be read as a VT to avoid the NK. This was intended to draw the NK onto me so a real Mason would be protected. I assume Quick noticed this, but the rest of you...

Enjoy the rest of the game. Fucking hell what a shower of fucking shit.

In post 822, CommKnight wrote:Poor sportsmanship. If you're town, you can push a VIABLE lynch. But hey, you've been anti-town this far, so why not carry this through to make sure you aren't trying to be let off the hook like Quick was.

CommKnight:

- Likes manipulating the game mechanics to trap players into revealing their role in a manner that's regarded as cheating on other sites.

I've spent 13 days trying to help town while the likes of CommKnight and Eric stroke their egos and tell fairy tales. I'm self voting because we might as well end this phase now. My flip might at least give you some information. If you don't want me dead, vote for someone else.

Of the 4 people currently voting me, Lalendra thinks I might be town and is basically policy lynching me for being "rude". Jeebus, don't be such a petal.

The other three I ask this question: Did you see my post about my gambit to draw the NK (which you have all now fucked) and if you did see it, doesn't my behaviour make more sense now? Was such a gambit just too complex for the regimented "you-must-play-our-way" attitude some of you seem to have? Because I don't care about your site meta.

@Aubrey: Re: Spoiler #2 - I never said it was against the rules *here* in this weird plane of existence. I said it was manipulating the game mechanics in an unsporting manner, which I absolutely stand by.

In post 844, Jamiet99uk wrote:Of the 4 people currently voting me, Lalendra thinks I might be town and is basically policy lynching me for being "rude". Jeebus, don't be such a petal.

The other three I ask this question: Did you see my post about my gambit to draw the NK (which you have all now fucked) and if you did see it, doesn't my behaviour make more sense now? Was such a gambit just too complex for the regimented "you-must-play-our-way" attitude some of you seem to have? Because I don't care about your site meta.

Anyone who isn't on me or CommKnight should really make a choice right about now.

For the defence, I'll point out that I've been honest about my gambit and ehy I was being unforthcoming earlier. I've answered all questions. Allegations made against me by CommKnight and Awoo are demonstrablu false.

For the prosecution, look at how CommKnight is refusing to look at new information and has locked in his read on me despite all that's been revealed and discussed since he did so. He sees me as an easy lynch since Awoo and Lalendra said they'd policy lynch me. Do you want to be on a wagon alongside people who *do not* scumread me and are just voting me because they find me abrasive?

Ahh ok. Whenever I mod a game, I make sure I'm online constantly for the two hours leading to EoD. So it looks like nobody was lynched. That's a shame as it deprives us of the information from the flip.