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Here's an idea ; Yuuko isn't exactly a 'traditional' ghost since the beginning- she doesn't float or goes through solid objects, she wears physical clothes and eats real food... Heck, I recall some people even speculated that she's actually a human that nobody noticed when this show first started.

The final episode of Gosick then shows what viewers think is vague imagery regarding the two: there's Kazuya "dreaming" about losing both of his legs in war as a conscript, and there's Victorica's clothes suddenly transforming into a wedding dress with Kazuya, whose legs are still intact, accompanying her. Some people think that Kazuya actually died during the war, but many firmly believe that what they see is what they get.

I don't know why it's preferred to have bittersweet endings in stories like this as opposed to happy ones like in Tasogare Otome x Amnesia.

Oh, a Gosick fan!

Spoiler for reply:

Ugh, some people really held on to the notion that Kazuya actually died in the war? Guess they didn't notice the blatant-in-your-face symbolism during those scenes. I love that show. :>

It depends. For some people it's personal, and for some others it's a lot more general (whether or not the ending fits with the atmosphere and developments of the story). Of course, there's the whole idealism vs. realism (it's long, but it's definitely worth a read!) debate, which I'd rather not get into.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gohan78

I had hoped that the finale could redeem the series straying away from the cliche. Sadly it wasn't so.

I think there are duelling clichés at work here. There's the "ghost story" cliché of "after a ghost's worldly problems are resolved, they disappear and go to heaven/the afterlife". Then, there's the "anime story" cliché of "even if the story looks to be heading towards a conclusive ending, something will happen to restore things to the status quo". So you could say that this episode looked to be going towards the first cliché, but actually went for the second; perhaps part of the debate is about which cliché you prefer?

I think there are duelling clichés at work here. There's the "ghost story" cliché of "after a ghost's worldly problems are resolved, they disappear and go to heaven/the afterlife". Then, there's the "anime story" cliché of "even if the story looks to be heading towards a conclusive ending, something will happen to restore things to the status quo". So you could say that this episode looked to be going towards the first cliché, but actually went for the second; perhaps part of the debate is about which cliché you prefer?

I suppose there are. But is the second cliché really a cliché? It's just that I haven't run into it.. like at all. Yeah, that's a funny but true way of looking at it.

Ugh, some people really held on to the notion that Kazuya actually died in the war? Guess they didn't notice the blatant-in-your-face symbolism during those scenes. I love that show. :>

Spoiler for My thoughts:

I'm one of those people that believe he lived and they did indeed marry.

Back on topic,

I, for one, think it's very interesting that the ending of this show has sparked a rather spirited debate over the merits of said ending. This tells me that the show was successful in making people care about the show one way or another. Well done!

I suppose there are. But is the second cliché really a cliché? It's just that I haven't run into it.. like at all. Yeah, that's a funny but true way of looking at it.

Oh, yeah, that second cliche is definitely one. Indeed, it's the standard way of resolving most anime. Actually, this season is kind of the exception to that, in that the lead couple actually made a definitive commitment to one another. Way too many romantic comedy type of anime series (especially harem shows) don't really end at all; the wacky hijinks are just presumed to continue indefinitely into the future. See, eg., any iteration of Tenchi-Muyo! (except GXP, which had Seina marry the whole harem, thus continuing the hijinks but ending the romantic tension), YuruYuri, Squid Girl, etc. Consider also things like Fortune Arterial, where (in the anime) the chosen ending has the lead pick a girl and deal with the immediate threat but not actually go ahead and resolve any of the existing problems.

Part of it, of course, is the whole "manga/light novels are still ongoing" problem, where there's no fixed ending available and the writers just stop at a certain point instead of making up an end. Then, of course, there's the plain fact that if characters A and B hook up, then the fans of pairings AC, AD, AE, and the dark-horse yuri or yaoi BE will theoretically be disappointed and stop buying the merch, which is diametrically opposed to what production companies want. See K-ON! for a perfect example of that one in action.

Lastly, there seems to be a distinct affection on the part of anime writers for not tying up loose ends. So even in a series which has a definitive "ending," there will still be bits and pieces left over. One would have to be a student of Japanese literature--which I'm not--to tell if that's a cultural trait or just a coincidence, but ambiguity always seems embedded in even things with reasonably definitive endings (Revolutionary Girl Utena, anyone? Or Future Diary, which actually made its ending more ambiguous than the manga for no apparent reason.).

But yes, the trope Status Quo is God has its claws sunk deeply into anime. In this case, with regard to Dusk Maiden of Amnesia, while I cheer for the happy ending we got, I would have much preferred a bittersweet ending that settled things to an ambiguous ending that left stuff just hanging out there!

Oh, yeah, that second cliche is definitely one. Indeed, it's the standard way of resolving most anime. Actually, this season is kind of the exception to that, in that the lead couple actually made a definitive commitment to one another. Way too many romantic comedy type of anime series (especially harem shows) don't really end at all; the wacky hijinks are just presumed to continue indefinitely into the future. See, eg., any iteration of Tenchi-Muyo! (except GXP, which had Seina marry the whole harem, thus continuing the hijinks but ending the romantic tension), YuruYuri, Squid Girl, etc. Consider also things like Fortune Arterial, where (in the anime) the chosen ending has the lead pick a girl and deal with the immediate threat but not actually go ahead and resolve any of the existing problems.

Part of it, of course, is the whole "manga/light novels are still ongoing" problem, where there's no fixed ending available and the writers just stop at a certain point instead of making up an end. Then, of course, there's the plain fact that if characters A and B hook up, then the fans of pairings AC, AD, AE, and the dark-horse yuri or yaoi BE will theoretically be disappointed and stop buying the merch, which is diametrically opposed to what production companies want. See K-ON! for a perfect example of that one in action.

Lastly, there seems to be a distinct affection on the part of anime writers for not tying up loose ends. So even in a series which has a definitive "ending," there will still be bits and pieces left over. One would have to be a student of Japanese literature--which I'm not--to tell if that's a cultural trait or just a coincidence, but ambiguity always seems embedded in even things with reasonably definitive endings (Revolutionary Girl Utena, anyone? Or Future Diary, which actually made its ending more ambiguous than the manga for no apparent reason.).

But yes, the trope Status Quo is God has its claws sunk deeply into anime. In this case, with regard to Dusk Maiden of Amnesia, while I cheer for the happy ending we got, I would have much preferred a bittersweet ending that settled things to an ambiguous ending that left stuff just hanging out there!

I see. Ah, that it explains it; I usually avoid harem or too slice of life-y shows like the plague because of the said manner of ending shows. As for shows such as Fortune Arterial (I haven't seen it), but I understand where you're coming from. I haven't run into much of those shows, as I only watch older shows (read: shows that aren't airing at the moment) if a friend who knows what kind of endings or just shows in general I prefer recommends them to me.

Ah, yes. The good side to those types of endings is that the stories may receive a continuation in the form of another season or a series of OVAs. Oh, that's a good point about A & B hooking up; it's something that I never really considered. But then again, each genre has it's own type of fans, and certain fans tend to be less likely to stop supporting shows if, say, they don't see their two favourite characters get together. Of course, this could also have the opposite effect a la Mashiro-iro Symphony, where the viewers buy the V/N so that they can see their two favourite characters fall in love with each other.

Mhm, I've noticed. It could by anything from the writers being inept at their jobs to there being a lack of funds to have one episode to tie up those loose ends, if possible.

The last part of you post confuses me a bit. You say you liked the happy ending, and that you would've prefer a bittersweet ending over an ambiguous one; does that mean you thought the happy one we got was ambiguous?

Fortune Arterial is tricky like any other VN made into Anime simply because of the multiple routes. When a manga or LN are adapted to anime you only have one plot to follow and then at the end if the number of episodes is too short or the manga hasn't finished yet you can come up with an ending based on the plot so far.
When it comes to VNs you usually have two types:
1- The VN with multiple routes and a single True route;
2- The VN with multiple routes and no True route;

Sure when dealing with Type 1 you can go by simply following the true route as if it were a manga/LN but then get ready for the enraged fans of the neglected girls. The true route's final girl is often NOT the most popular girl and the thing about VNs is that it a more personal and direct experience than reading a manga, meaning you have a bigger connection with a certain girl and seeing her get thrown into the background pisses off more people than you'd like. In this case, some studios decide to keep the ending somewhat vague, not really resolving anything completely aside from the big evil or antagonist or whatever.
With Type 2 have multiple options. You can do it like Majikoi and make up your own plot altogether, follow the common route and then make up a new ending or follow one route as if it were the true route (usually picking the most popular).
Fortune Arterial was a Type 1, meaning it had a True Route.

Well, I don't want to get too far off-topic into analysing the endings of other shows, but briefly put the main issue I had with the Fortune Arterial anime ending was:

Spoiler for Fortune Arterial anime ending:

It was an adaptation of romantic visual novel that ended with the main couple being "more than friends, not quite lovers", which removes/alters a huge part of the game completely.

Typically, though, I do agree that the various "clichés" we have for endings have a lot to do with the type of source material and the status of the on-going work. I think not having enough episodes to do a faithful adaptation is a huge challenge that is difficult to overcome, in addition to wanting to balance out the desire for finality (in case no sequel is ever made) with need to keep things somewhat open (so the story doesn't conflict with the source, should they wish to continue the anime). I also think that, in general, there is a slight emphasis on/preference towards "and the fantasy goes on!", which I think can contribute to (some) people wanting to relive the series again.

Here, I would suppose that it's probably two things: 1) they didn't want the anime's ending to be too depressing (particularly since Teiichi is so young to suffer such a hard fate -- he might then die with regrets!) and 2) the manga isn't over and there's still a 13th bonus episode of this anime to come. (And who knows -- there could be more still, if the show ends up posting decent results.)

To tell you all the truth I didn't cover this show back at the start of this about-to-end season. I recall back then that I made up my mind about which shows I chose to watch in the spring season.

It was probably at the end of April that I happened to come across with this series that got blogged at Divine's Randomc.net

The screenshots for episodes three and four intrigued me alot due to the animation strongly reminding me of the animated works by SHAFT, and it wasn't until the fifth episode got blogged that it hooked me up to watch immediately this anime, starting from episode five to backwards into the start.

To be honest, the moment I heard for the first time the OP theme song I was blown away quite metaphorically, because it was not only so beautiful but so powerfully good that I said to myself that Another should had featured an opening song like CHOIR JAIL
Along the way, I learned that actually SILVER LINK was and is the studio responsible for delivering such haunting but beautifully epic animation, because the way how Yuuko got animated was not only pleasant to me but also mesmerizing.
Her most prominent features that captivated me watching her on sight were how neatly they animated all of her face- her cheeks, the outline of her eye sockets, the bright of her eyes, her gaze, her mouth, her lips- and finally her long, windy hair.

Too bad that since in the last episode Yuuko got all of her memories back along with her true personality, then we won't be seeing her again in her sensual mode seducing Teiichi so sexy like she did in the first five episodes.

Regarding the episodes itself, I stand up dividing the storyline in two arcs:
- One is the mellow arc (episodes 1 - 5)
- The other the Shadow Yuuko arc (episodes 6 - 12)

The first arc chronicles Yuukos' antics along with the rest of the Paranormal Research Club finding out about the history of school's Seven Mysteries to which all of them somehow revolve around Yuuko.
As the name implies, the episodes played during that arc were very comical and light-hearted in tone, specially if you saw the fourth one about the pool scene. However, Shadow Yuuko roamed around those episodes to remind the audience that not everything was well and light within the plot.

That brewing omen became the main focus of attention in the Shadow Yuuko arc when Teiichi started to become deeply involved with the mystery behind Yuuko's death and dissappearance of her memories.

As most people know, this show can be said to be a supernatural romance delivering horror elements, but the horror featured is delivered either as to how other people aside from Keiichi imagine to see how Yuuko looks like a stereotypical portrayal of an undead spirit, or the horror comes from the very stupidity found in human nature which both episodes six and ten ghastly showed it to the audience, as prominent examples.

In life Yuuko was a prime example of a selfless human willing to help others, and I sobbed watching the circumstances leading to her death. That's because what they did to her was unfair, uncalled for, and stupid. I mean I cannot even imagine how would person feel if he or she is thrown into a deep well, a deep basement, or a deep cavern with no possible way to escape. Add that the victim found under that despairing and desolate place gets injured and can only wait days after days alone in the dark waiting for death either through starvation or lack of oxygen.
Yuuko as a human lost it like anyone else in her position would have acted, but she was able to restrain herself at the last minute before dying from hating and cursing Asa, because she didn't wish to blame Asa as the cause of her doomed fate.

Believe that I cried profound watching the events that led to her death, and I cried in joy during the eleventh episode when Teichii confessed to the Shadow Yuuko that he loved both of them triggering the miracle that enable both Yuukos to merge into one at last, and thus clearing her regrets at that time.

As for the finale, I won't join the discussion, since I see that there are lots and lots of people more knowledgeable than me about the subject, and it's more fun for me to sit and read all of your posts.
But, what I can say about the ending was that I cried along with Teiichi when Yuuko came back.

To conclude Tasogare Otome x Amnesia was a show that I originally didn't intend to watch, but I was won over after reading about it from a blog.
First, it won me over with its animation style centered around Yuuko, and it immediately won the rest of me with its constructed plot, and 3D-believable characters.

After Yuuko, Kyrie's definitely my second favorite character from the main cast, and I didn't have to wait to learn that she was a relation to Yuuko due to noticing that both sport some physical semblances, specially if I looked at their faces holding similar features; from the mellow arc, the fifth episode is my favorite centering mostly on Kyrie.

So, basically this was the second show of the spring 2012 season that I concluded, and I will definitely rewatch it for the Halloween season.

I think there are duelling clichés at work here. There's the "ghost story" cliché of "after a ghost's worldly problems are resolved, they disappear and go to heaven/the afterlife". Then, there's the "anime story" cliché of "even if the story looks to be heading towards a conclusive ending, something will happen to restore things to the status quo". So you could say that this episode looked to be going towards the first cliché, but actually went for the second; perhaps part of the debate is about which cliché you prefer?

Actually I was thinking about the romcom clichè "The main couple must get together in the end against all odds".
I don't know if you can say that there is a "ghost story" clichè since there are so few shows of this kind. Off the top of my head I can only name AnoHana, which indeed ended with a disappearance. There are ghost characters in other shows like Ghost Sweeper Mikami, Negima, ToLoveRu, Bakemonogatari but they are mostly seconday characters.

Actually I was thinking about the romcom clichè "The main couple must get together in the end against all odds".
I don't know if you can say that there is a "ghost story" clichè since there are so few shows of this kind. Off the top of my head I can only name AnoHana, which indeed ended with a disappearance. There are ghost characters in other shows like Ghost Sweeper Mikami, Negima, ToLoveRu, Bakemonogatari but they are mostly seconday characters.

As stated before, My lovely ghost Kana is a great example of a good romantic story with a ghost where the story doesn't end in her passing on.

The disappearance scene was so touching, such a great song in the background and then that Goodbye Yuko on the notebook. Simply perfect. A truly memorial moment for the anime history, and then crushed with that ridiculous, coward last move.

Never felt a Kancho, but I'm sure it's pretty similar to what I felt watching the last minutes of this last episode.