GROWING GRUMBLINGS: Santa Barbara Taxpayers Association Executive Director Joe Armendariz, flanked by other members of the group, spoke from the steps of the county administration building this week. Armendariz called for unions to give up wage increases and criticized the county for spending money it doesn’t have on expensive pensions.

Thursday, February 17, 2011

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Public employee pensions: Three words that are enough to make most people cringe, either because they don’t understand them, or because they do all too well.

With the state dealing with a $26-billion deficit, and Santa Barbara County looking at a budget shortfall of as much as $90 million, public employee salaries and benefits are coming under fire. Most recently, the Santa Barbara County Taxpayers Association (SBCTA) swarmed the steps of the County Administration Building on Monday, calling for union groups to sit down at the negotiating table with the county and forego wage increases recently implemented or just around the corner.

Many of the increases are coming to fruition after months — and in some cases more than a year — of deferral in order to help the county save money. But while those concessions and deferrals helped keep employees from getting laid off, the Taxpayers Association is calling for more. “We believe this is simply unsustainable,” said Joe Armendariz, SBCTA executive director. Former 3rd District supervisor Brooks Firestone agreed: “We are broke; California is broke; the county is broke.”

But for all the huffing Monday morning, union leaders responded with some puffing of their own, frowning upon the message of this week’s press conference and noting they have worked hard to save the county much-needed cash over the last few years as the economy tanked. SEIU, for example — which represents more than 2,000 service-level county employees — made concessions, including furloughs that saved the county more than $6.5 million in recent years. A 3.5-percent increase in salary implemented in January was negotiated in exchange for the concession. That’s two years of increased cost of living adjustments foregone, and SEIU is currently down 150 positions. “We’ve worked with this county and will continue to work with the county,” said Bruce Corsaw, SEIU Local 620 executive director, who stated they are preparing to begin negotiations with the county as their contract is up this June.

The Deputy Sheriffs’ Association (DSA), in exchange for the 3-percent-at-50 deal — meaning public safety officials can retire at age 50 with 3 percent of their final salary for every year they were employed — basically gave up four years of pay raises. Deferments have extended those lost raises even further. One 3-percent raise, supposed to go into effect last August, is set to be implemented with another planned 3-percent raise. Another increase is slated for August. Even with the 9-percent total jump, Johnson said, DSA members have actually gone down in pay because expenses went up while they received no cost-of-living adjustment. Only two members of the current board — 4th District Supervisor Joni Gray and 1st District Supervisor Salud Carbajal — sat on the board when the contract, which at the time was supported by the SBCTA, was negotiated.

While the raises were under particular scrutiny Monday, pension pay in general has put the county in a real bind. For a number of reasons — people are living longer in retirement and the rate of retirement has been going up, for example — the county’s pension obligations are reaching a breaking point.

But because of the market’s downturn, the Board of Retirement voted late last year to increase the county’s contribution rate. The county was paying nearly 29 cents into the retirement fund for every dollar of payroll, but when the valuation jumps, the county will be paying more than 37 cents on the dollar, an estimated $30-million increase.

With this in mind, a five-member advisory commission that formed last year — which included former SEIU Local 620 executive director Walt Hamilton and former county treasurer-tax collector Gary Feramisco — gave the Board of Supervisors recommendations on Tuesday on how to mitigate costs related to providing retirement benefits.

Because of state laws that protect current employees, pension-change options are limited. But future employees of the county could see a different setup in their benefit structure. Some of the recommendations include eliminating employer contributions to employees’ payments toward their pension benefit, implementing a 2-percent cost-of-living adjustment as opposed to the current 3 percent, no longer allowing employees to cash out unused vacation hours (which increases their final average salary), and eliminating all performance-based lump-sum payments. The last two would result in changes to an employee’s final average salary, which is used when pension benefits are calculated.

Additionally, the commission recommended switching to a 2-percent-at-50 formula for all safety employees, or a 2-percent-at-50 for Probation Department personnel, and 3-percent-at-55 for Fire and Sheriff’s Department employees. For future general employees, suggested alternatives were 1.62-percent-at-65 or 2-percent-at-61¼.

But what recommendations the supervisors actually implement will be decided in closed session during negotiations with union groups. Those negotiations are just starting up and are likely to continue through to the budget hearings in June. Regardless, hard choices will have to be made to bridge the gap, and cuts to services, salaries, and employees are all on the table.

Comments

The problem with the Tax Payers Association is credibility. Brooks Firestone and Mike Stoker did their parts while sitting on the Board of Supervisors to create what we have today. They also touted their endorsements from the public safety unions in the past.

I like the line, "which at the time was supported by the SBCTA". Kind of says it all huh. What a bunch of hypocrites.

The 'conservative' Bush administration's policies, mismanagement and malfeasance brings down the world economy and the nutroots from Joe Armendariz's local organization have the nerve to want to drive down wages and benefits for all of us! Armendariz and his people are just criminal in their deeds, actions and words. Look at this photo of elitists and remember who they are for their failed policies. They're like rapists blaming the victim for wearing a short skirt. Only criminals act this way. Shameful!

Actually, Firestone tried to stop it, but was outvoted. He didn't run again because of frustration with the rest of the Board's casual attitude toward bankrupting the county. Armendariz is hardly criminal, more like a voice of reason. CA's public employees are overpaid, overbenefited, overpensioned and a major cause of deficits at the state and most local levels. California has one of the highest "moocher factors" in the country - 3 government supported people for every 4 taxpayers. And continues to drive private jobs out of the state, thus exacerbating the problem. So you union supporters can rant all you want, but should note that Wisconsin, the first state ever to allow collective bargaining by government employees and home to the Socialist movement in the US, has realized the error of its ways and is about to eliminate collective bargaining for government employees. As should the rest of the states.

There is a lot of talk about how over-paid public employees are, but such talk is seldom (if ever) backed up by real data-driven analysis. Well, researchers at the Center on Wage Employment Dynamics at the Institute for Research on Labor and Employment at the University of California have conducted such an analysis and come to the conclusion that there is no significant difference in total compensation between full-time state and local employees and private-sector employees. You can read the policy brief here: http://www.irle.berkeley.edu/cwed/wp/...

One simple question... Did public employees create the recession we're in? If you answer yes you're not very intelligent. Government deficits were caused by the top 1% in income working in the congress, banking, and wall street tanking the system. Now that the money is gone and groups like the Tax Payers Assoc. want to make you believe it was caused by public employees. It's all about their greed in keeping taxes locked at 35% for the rich. The rest of us (99%) suffer for it.

I want to make a observation for JohnL. In case you haven't noticed.... this is not Wisconsin. We do things a little different here so I suggest you and Lanny move and then he won't have to waste his time. Enjoy the snow and the strikes. Hope your house doesn't catch fire.

"Nursing from the public teat"? That would better to be used to define the govunionemployees that are under discussion here.

"The mess we're in now was created by the intellecually and morally blah blah blah"? Don't think so. The mess was created by the lefty Supes that handed out wages and pension like they actually had the money. Example set by Jerry Brown long ago and Gray Davis more recently.

@Validated, you entirely missed my point. Wisconsin was the origin of collective bargaining for government policies due in part to its history of very left wing ideas and socialism. "We" (I presume you mean "you" )have not been doing things differently here; "we" (I presume you mean "you" have been doing exactly as Wisconsin has done for 50 years. Wisconsin has realized the error of its ways, as have several other states, and is taking steps toward a solution. A few courageous people here in SB have spoken out in favor of similar measures. If you don't like it, then leave. But don't you dare call yourself any kind kind of believer in basic American rights and then have the audacity to tell me to leave because I hold a view different from yours. ANd no, the right to collective bargaining by government employees is not a basic right.

billclausen; No it cannot be fixed; unless we choose another economic model rather than this chamber of commerce driven economic model. Otherwise for fairness and stability we must operate in pre-Reagan democratic policies to keep some level of economic fairness. That includes one of the most democratic institutions representing workers known as collective bargaining or Unions.

Cost of living here is inded very high. While most goods and services are priced at or below national averages (except gasoline), the most significant high cost item is housing (per national COL statistical breakdown published by US Gov). Housing cost here is primarily driven by supply and demand and secondarily by the cost of regulation imposed by the local govs. Contributing also to the high cost of living are high taxes and the artificial spending power created by a combination of the Prop 13 inheritance clause and the overpayment of union workers.

If the SEIU spent as much effort in quality assuring work ethic, competence, compliance, etc among staff within multitude of departments under Public Safety (including Law Enforcement, Domestic Health and Disaster Relief) - maybe the economy wouldn't be suffering so bad.

Much enmity exists within the private sector against bureaucrats - because of an attitude in hubris as observed among different department staff and executives that presume virtual job securities that benefit no recourse or oversight.

Too many times staff is observed to wear a smirky smug of indifference against members of the public's legitimate grievances and concerns.

Health and Human Services is a great example.. where department agency has been converted as some sort of a "nanny-state" babysitting platform for adults, collecting payroll.

What their expertise amounts to is specializing on passing the buck: not taking responsibility, and ducking duty and obligation as a matter of habit and say, "that's just the way we do things around here," based on faulty policies, practices and procedures.

Property values have been artificially inflated because of the excessive incomes SEIU represent within the competative real estate market. The private sector, statistically, simply does not make their level of earnings.

San Diego is already looking at bankruptcy altogether - not being able to meet over a $3.5 Billion deficit in addressing these excessive perks and pension programs.

Other Cities across California have already filed bankruptcy like Vallejo - where they endure diminished population, increased crime, and very little, if any, police protection exists. Sacramento has taken over, siphons our tax monies around here to bail-out Northern California's freeload state agency union lobby ambitions.

The Taxpayer's Association is being incredibly diplomatic under the circumstances that veils an actual contempt the public has against these union employees.

If the SEIU knows what's good for them, they won't continue in trying to justify the unconscionable.

Already, as a matter of policy, the SEIU takes our tax dollars, count our votes (albeit electronically), endorse the political candidates that happen to get, "elected" - that merely vote in taxing us further.

No doubt rampant fraud has infested the state department agencies (ring a Bell? Like the City of Bell) and probably aware of the growing trend in various indictments among staff and management that qualify as criminal malfeasance.

Maybe that's the real reason behind SEIU's agenda behind "Measure S" under the last election - with the $260,000.00 per bed price tag in jail facility - since because ultimately, that's where they project to retire.

Look. Bottom line. The County cannot afford the benefits anymore. Nor can the state and hundreds of other cities and counties in California. The best fix is a two tier system. Status quo on retirement for existing staff, have them forego raises. The department heads haven't had one in 3 years. So what's good for them should be good for employees For new government employees, have them pay a larger percentage of their medical and retirement, just like the private sector. Hey, everybody needs to sacrifice right now, even government employees.

John Locke, you either were not around when it happened or have just forgotten, but the "righty" North County supervisors fell all over themselves to vote for the 3% at 50 retirement plan for public safety employees. This was not a "lefty" thing. Rather, it was a prime example of the human capacity to believe that the good times can roll on forever. When the market was creating a huge surplus for the retirement programs the supervisors (all of them left, right, and center) were convinced that they could enhance the safety retirement benefit for free. In fact one might argue that the conservative capitalist unwavering faith in the ability of markets to grow to infinity and beyond was a significant contributor to the psychology that drove the vote. The left is guilty of many foolish things, but you can't blame every public policy snafu on them.

Fine, but that was then and this is now. Errors, by whomever made, must be corrected. And as I recall 3% at 50 was proposed by Gray Davis as payment to the unions for supporting his election. Anyone who voted for it because they thought the good times would last forever was just plain stupid, whatever their party or basic beliefs.

Wait a minute, Bush doubled the size of government, he was no conservative. You can blame people who label themselves as conservative but are actually pro-big government, but you can't with any intellectual honesty blame REAL conservatives who favor small government and balanced budgets.

"The era of big government is over" - Bill Clinton

So Clinton acted more like a conservative, Bush acted more like a liberal, Bush caused the financial crisis.

So I find it sort of ironic that the liberals here are blasting Bush for anything more than starting two unconstitutional, expensive and unnecessary wars.

As far as public employees go, they are going to need to have their salaries and benefits cut. Period. Either they take the cuts or they get NOTHING, because a bankrupt system pays NOTHING. Or you can choose to counterfeit their paychecks from thin air through a Federal bailout which will devalue our currency so much after everybody else is bailed out that nobody will be able to buy anything with their pensions.

We have to take a realistic approach to these daunting issues, otherwise it is just going to end in crisis.

"There is no fiscal crisis in Wisconsin. Governor Walker reports a nearly 130 million dollar deficit, but doesn't report that he caused it by giving a 140 million dollar tax break to large multinational corporations here in Wisconsin (e.g. WalMart). However, this cover story gives him an excuse to do the unthinkable."

tabatha, as much as I despise Walmart, and trust me I despise them as much as anyone, Walmart is better at feeding, clothing and providing services to people than a government building full of government workers.. I'll take the Walmart, please.

WalMart destroys every community they move into. First they put all the local businesses under then the local media outlets. How come media outlets you ask? They buy up all the advertising then when they have no more competitors they no longer advertise and there goes the local radio, tv and print media.In addition alcoholism and drug addiction and arrests rise in communities they move into, especially amongst their own employees who work for slave wages and long hours. WalMart parking lots in the MidWest are drug bazaars.Some of the cranks in this thread should not bother wasting their time trying to dispute this because not only is media my business, the facts and figures are out there.And sorry LoonPt, but I will have to disagree with you when it comes to WalMart quality vs a government service that has service as a motive and not profit.And sorry "John Locke", the crazy guy screaming on the corner is more credible than you, unless it is you. Which it very well may be someday.

My solution is simple... institute new local and state income taxes exclusively on public pensions, to bring those pensions back into line with most US retirement benefits. Won't violate any of the public unions agreements... conservatives generally hate taxes, but on public pensions, they should love `em. And liberals love taxes in general.

I'd make it really progressive... nothing on pensions up to the CA median income, maybe 10% on median to 2X median, 20% on 2X median to 3X median, etc. Those guys from cities like Bell who get $500,000/year in pension would end up paying just about 80 or 90% in income taxes.

I agree WalMarts destroy some areas, but I didn't see these types of areas shouldering large government bureaucracies before they moved in, either. I'd still take the WalMart services over the big government building.

The reason drug use rises in areas with WalMarts is because a lot of these areas are small towns surrounded by smaller towns without WalMart, and people will end up travelling to go to WalMart for the cheap prices (which of course are a result of govt. currency manipulations going on in both countries, WalMart is simply taking advantage of the situation caused by govt.).

Either way we probably shouldn't be blaming a problem caused by the drug war (also a govt. program) on WalMart.

I'd cream you in any debate based on my intellect and knowledge of history, civics and current affairs alone. Ioriginally planned to comment on how sad it is that some little bugs have nothing better to do all day but sow further acrimony and dischord, but if that is the type of person you wish to embrace as a supporter, then you can have the fleas.

Y'know, when looked at all together these many posts amount to a more enjoyable read than the article itself. Of course they, the bulk of them anyway, have little or nothing to do with the article which was supposed to address...uh...the issue of...well I can't rightly remember just this minute but it's important, whatever it was...damned important...

EZK, you may have the most outsized ego of anyone I've read herein. You should read some of your owns posts and realize how well you illuslrate the psychological term "projection".

The issue here is government employee compensation. After being censored by the Indy editor, EZK weighed in with the incorrect observation that the folks bringing this problem to the fore are those who created it. And went from there to Walmart and then to calling me crazy. Not sure what planet EZK is from, but s/he sure is entertaining. Acrimony and discord (note spelling, EZK)? me?

I don't care whose fault it is, and calling each other names won't solve the budget mess. Yes the top `1% is too rich, but that doesn't entirely explain California's budget mess. We also cannot afford to pay public employees their full salaries (that's what it pretty much amounts too after they are done playing their clever tricks to bump up their last year's salary) for 30+ years after they retire. If you start working at 22, retire at 50, and live to 80, you get paid longer for not working than you did for doing your job. That means that if we are paying you $75,000/year, we really are paying you over twice that much. How much sense does that make?

Wisconsin's governor is trying to bust the unions, and I hope he fails. Unions are there to push for the rights of workers, a much needed protection against big business, and I see no reason why public employees should not have the same bargaining rights.

But we also need elected officials with the brains not to commit our County and our State to benefit packages that will bankrupt us. I am happy to pay taxes for education (voted for the school bond measures in the last election), but I am definitely not OK with forking over my hard-earned $$ so that public employees can retire at 50 with cushy pensions.

The best example of overpaid California public employees I ever met was in Tahoe. We went to breakfast at a local cafe, and ensconced at the counter was a rotund 50 something guy reading the paper and moping up his bacon and eggs with hot buttered toast. My boyfriend, who is from there, greeted the guy. Let's call him Pete. "So Pete, how's retirement?" he asked. "Great," said Pete. "I'm getting full pay, full benies, and I got hired back on by the Fire Dept as a consultant, so right now I am sitting here making $60 an hour on top of it all. Can't complain." Nice work if you can get it, but how right does it feel?

The governor of Wisconsin is totally supporting unions... the police and fire unions. They lose no bargaining power. He is only going after the other unions. What a hypocrite... if he want after all of the unions, at least he'd be honest and consistent.

Brooks Firestone absolutely supported the sheriff and fire unions here too. He griped about it, but in the end, those are unions he loved and voted for. Another hypocrite.

If the Taxpayers Association is serious, let them argue first and foremost for cuts in police and fire benefits and pay. In this economy with 10-12% unemployment we can replace resigning deputies and firefighters in an instant if they quit.

If you go to the county website you can review the contracts (MOU) for both fire and sheriff employees. Neither contract ends until 2013, which means the county cannot impose cuts until then by law. You’ll also see that each and every union has already given concessions, but for some of you no amount would ever be enough.

Just like the hypocritical tax payers association you tea baggers should at least try to be honest. The rich white top income earners association stood on those steps and said that the BOS must rescind pay increases knowing full well they have no ability to do so under the law. What the BOS does have the ability to do is promote/increase the generation of revenue in this county, but have failed miserably. We have just as much of an income problem as a spending problem.

In regards to hiring new firefighters and deputies; JohnL obviously has no knowledge of the process and requirements. It’s a very expensive endeavor, doesn’t make financial sense and it takes up to a year to get them on their own without direct supervision. You can find that information in the county website as well. Do you need a link John?

According to federal government data released last week, in general government employees salaries are comparable to private sector, while benefits and pensions far exceed private sector. I.e. total comp for government workers is higher than private sector. Historically, i.e. b4 the govemployeeunions had the power, government employees understood that they were paid somewhat less in exchange for job security. Obviously, now that their compensation has become unsustainable, their job security is less. So either cut comp or cut people. Welcome to the world.

Regarding signed contracts, there are many people who signed contracts to pay mortgages they couldn't afford and are begging for relief. How is that any different?

Regarding fire and police, hire qualified individuals from somewhere else. So simple when one doesn't think of SB as the center of, no, as the whole, world.

To the Progressives, budget problems always will be a revenue problem.

But I do agree that our Supes and Council have done nothing to promote revenue generation, like encourage private businesses to create jobs.

Even a child can figure out that budget is connected to income.People who want to dismantle the government to begin with really have no business in governance much less giving financial advice. How can they be trusted?

Let's see, now. People who want to dismantle the gov are usually not in gov; it's often those in gov or benefiting from it's largesse who prefer to keep and grow it. And people who want to dismantle the gov have no business giving financial advice? What, only gov people are financially knowledgable? Yah. Right. That's why the govs are so far in the hole on pensions, not to mention running red ink every year. OH, right, that's Bush's fault. Morons.

Oh no John it's not Bush's fault anymore. It's the union's fault for all your troubles. You know when it started right? In 1968 that union thug California Governor Ronald Reagan signed the Meyers-Milias-Brown Act into law. It gave collective bargaining to ALL the local public servants you see every day. Guess he wouldn't be allowed into the tea party huh?

And regarding free speech, some of the local Regressives would happily squelch anyone who disagrees with them - they already try to do so with insults and invective. You know who I mean - the "I'm smarter than you, not to mention politically correct and of higher moral character" crowd. EZK, Wally, Eat, DonM and their crew.

I read it was Moonbeam that gave collective bargaining rights to gov workers, not Reagan.

"People who want to dismantle the government to begin with really have no business in governance much less giving financial advice. How can they be trusted?" -EZK

Wait a minute, the government is the one stealing half my income, you don't think I have the right to be involved with the mafia gang stealing half my income that mostly ends up going to big corporations and the military industrial complex? With all this corruption in government, I'M the one who is not supposed to be trusted? What's going on here?

LoonPt, I know for a fact the government isn't stealing half your income! You're nowhere near that salary range, for starters! And if you were and they were taking half, you would need a new accountant! Quit exaggerating!Now as for what taxes you are actually paying, you have two good points. But exaggerations and throwing the baby out with the bathwater are both beneath you and unwise.

It's not an exaggeration, it is an approximation. To be honest, if you took everything into account it's probably higher than 50%. If my employer is paying a large amount of corporate taxes, who's to say I wouldn't have a little higher salary? If the grocery store down the street wasn't paying taxes, whose to say the food wouldn't be a little bit cheaper? Those are all taxes that are in part passed on to the employees and consumer, you really have to look at how high taxation of one group affects everyone.

Now throw in inflation tax, which is the rise in prices including food, energy, housing, education (which I'm still paying for), medical (through high insurance premiums). This is one of the worst taxes of all, and we all have to pay it. Medical costs and education costs aren't skyrocketing because of magic, they are going up because of inflation. The government will try and tell you inflation is around 1-2%, but they don't seem to include any goods that actually increase in price because they want to be able to continue the illusion of price stability so they can keep inflating the money supply to pay for our endless wars and overseas empire.

Everybody's landlord pays property taxes, and those expenses are passed down to the renters, therefore I pay property taxes on top of federal and state income tax, ss and medicare... on top of inflation taxes and sales taxes and taxes that get passed down by corporations.. If it's under 50% I'd be pretty amazed.

Loonpt, USA Today is not an academic journal that publishes peer-reviewed scholarly research. In fact the quality of the reporting and writing in that publication is so poor, I am surprised that you would cite it as an authority. There is real data-driven, peer-reviewed research on this subject (the link to one such study is already on this string). In terms of total compensation public employees do not make more than their private sector counterparts. That is just the fact that the data shows. Whether or not we are willing to pay the price of the public services we receive is another question, and one worth debating in much more civil tone than what has gone on here. But the myth that somehow public employees make more than private employees is just that - a myth.

Well I would encourage everyone to read the USA Today article, as the information comes directly from the Bureau of Economic Analysis, a government agency.. I don't know what incentive they would have for falsifying this type of information considering it reflects so poorly on the government that they are apart of.

However keep in mind that the article was about FEDERAL employees and not state or local employees. There will be some differences as it is easier to corrupt a large centralized government than a smaller local government.

I think the objection is that the article does not try to compare people in similar jobs with similar levels of experience... say, MD's with orthopedic surgery specialty both with 10 years of experience.

It may be that the main salary difference is due to the average Federal worker having more training and education than the average private worker. Not sure, but that is what you must do to get a serious comparison.

The benefits are an entirely different story. There is a huge difference between defined benefit and defined contribution... but mostly that difference is market timing. *All* defined benefit plans (both the few private ones that remain and all public ones) are right now getting strong `buy' signals from the way they calculate indebtedness.... (so-called present value accounting). So they are showing big debts right now, encouraging buying of securities. In a way this is totally smart... buy low (when the market is down). But because we are in a bad economic downturn, it pisses everybody off, and gives public sector folks a huge bump in compensation right when everyone else is in bad shape.

On the other hand, in defined contribution plans you (and your employer) put in roughly the same amount every year. Since you contribute (or should contribute) more earlier, when you're in your 20's, it is actually a smarter system than defined benefit... assuming you dig into your pockets and really contribute while in your 20's. Most Americans aren't doing it though. And then all those folks who didn't contribute to their 401(k)'s and IRAs when they should have are doubly pissed off at the public sector.

What a mess. But the defined contribution really is better and smarter, for those of us who figure it out. BTW, fewer than 8% of Americans now retiring saved enough in their 401's, and the median savings is 1/4 of what is needed for their retirement.

Yes, that was mentioned in the article. Some how I doubt that they are all so highly skilled that if they were let go they would find similar pay in the private sector, but that's just my opinion. I also think it is a shame that we have so many highly skilled persons in the public sector wasting their talents when they could be actually producing things that are beneficial to society in the private sector. For example, an engineer designing killing devices for our military instead of a device that could help decrease the costs of food production, which could have amazing implications globally for those in poverty.

Government engineers don't just design weapons, they design bridges, buildings, rescue equipment and the like. I pretty much think you already know this LoonPt unless I've misjudged your breadth of knowledge this whole time. We need more public sector employees and put an end to privatization of public services; else you'll just get more military industrial complex which I'm pretty sure you're against. Maybe lay off the partying for awhile and perhaps you'll be less prone to exaggeration and imaginary fears my friend.The corporation you work for, as well as their goons pictured above; need to pay their fair share or leave. No more corporate freeloaders.

My definition of privatization doesn't include government stealing land, resources or money from people and giving it to corporations to build 'public infrastructure'. Too often that is what people include in their definitions in order to give privatization a bad name, whether it be the first world or the third world. My definition includes getting the government out of the business completely. That means no eminent domain.

You can't complain about having an automobile based society and then in the next breath defend government subsidisation of automobile roads. The reason we are an automobile based society is because of the massive subsidies of roads. Who knows what better, efficient methods of transportation we would be using if the free market had been left to create it.

Time to privatize many of our non-essential city/county/state services. Studies show that this is much cheaper for taxpayers. And btw, let's make a point of saying "taxpayers" intead of government and/or the depts. when talking about costs to maintain these services because it's easy for ppl to forget this fact when all the dust settles.

Privatization would send even more of our local dollars out of our community, get a clue. Furthermore an organization, in this case a government department such as water or fire, education or roads, that is focused on public service rather than a private one which is focused on profit will always perform its services better. And what exactly would you define as "nonessential"? Why are you so happy to throw locals out of work?The new automated parking stations at the Paseo Nuevo have thrown people out of work and are sending our local dollars out of our community, and frankly are a bit elitist. I can't wait for the first fraud lawsuit to come from that dumb move. How is this good? For your investments?Those pushing for privatization share the same political-economic agenda as Ahmadinejad.

If the automated parking attendants at Paseo Nuevo provide a cost savings for customers who use the garage so they don't have to raise the parking rates, then how is that money leaving the community? That's money that people can save and use to buy other goods and services. Maybe one of the parking attendants at the mall was an aspiring artist, and now with all the saved money in the community from having an automated attendants, the community might decide to spend it on the artist's works? Maybe some of the people who helped design the automated parking attendant work for a technology company in Goleta, or maybe there is a technology company in Goleta designing automated checkout stands for stores all over the country. Instead of focusing on buying crappy stuff our community makes, we should focus on producing better quality products and services that can be used by any community. A smart company would in fact start with things that are needed locally as it decreases the cost of business.

or I suppose we could just pay people to stand around and do nothing at the mall and raise the parking fees to pay for them.. you know, keep the money in the community.

"a government department such as water or fire, education or roads, that is focused on public service rather than a private one which is focused on profit will always perform its services better."

Actually when competition is allowed to exist, private for-profit companies will focus on and provide higher levels of service than a government department that already has a monopoly on performing the service and thus has no incentive to increase their servicing capabilities.

If a private company is doing a poor job and has poor customer service, then people won't use their service and they will find another provider, or an entrepreneur will create a new provider and drive them out of business. That is, unless there are government regulations that prevent other providers from being created. When the government is the only provider of a service, or they create a monopoly through regulations and the service provider is doing a bad job, all you can do is vote out your representatives. This is not been shown to be a terribly effective way of increase the customer service level of public agencies.

If public utilities are so much better at customer service, then why is it that I can pay my gas, electricity, internet/cable bills online or even automate payments, but the water/trash bill that is the only one handled by the city I have to send in a check via snail mail or go downtown and drop it off at an office?

Its far better and honorable to work in a parking garage and develope and create genuine art then be forced to prostitute your work to the lowest common denominator so it sells more rapidly. If you want to see what a fraud the mainstream "art" world has become, see "Exit Through the Gift Shop" of even "F for Fake"And whats so hard about writing a check or using "snail mail"? You act as if you have to trudge miles thru the snow. The "Give Me Convenience or Give me Death" attitude is part of what's killing our society.

@LoonPt Thanks for elaborating on the free-mkt is better for public works concept. You have a good understanding of the butterfly effect. Unfortunately there's a lot of ppl on the left that think the process is a conspiracy to oppress them. It's sad to see ppl so brainwashed into thinking they are helpless victims that must seek gov programs for help--when in fact it's the gov progs that are the oppressors. Democratic politicians can't lose their base of needy ppl you know.

Wow Ms. "SantaBarbaraDianne" Channing, you certainly don't spout this nonsense in public forums when you're running. Aren't you in need of our votes? You really are filled with resentment about being a marginal player aren't you? History has shown, the most glaring example being corporate sponsored Nazi Germany exactly what a corporate sponsored government looks like.