That's my feeling on it as well. Also give it about two-three weeks or so and the novelty of ganking will wear off and things will stabilize. Some people are being extremely obnoxious because they can be. They'll get bored eventually. I *LOVE* the CRZ feature, leveling on a PVP server is actually fun again.

You're right, however many years ago it was now, I should have rolled on a PVE server, even though the game has changed drastically between then and now. It's not like I woke up on the day 5.0.3 or whatever dropped and decided to roll ten level 85s on a PVP server.

I liked being on a PVP server when I rolled on it... in vanilla... without arenas, battlegrounds, or resilience.

Anymore, I probably do belong on a PVE server because I like my PVP to have at least a half-assed attempt and providing other targets than me - I won't go so far as to call them teammates in a BG, but at least the game tries to get the same number of players on each side. Anything else feels like Blizzard is rewarding whoever has the most buddies with them (Read: Not me) for their $15/mo and penalizing me for my $15/mo and I don't care for it.

For a lot of people WoW is becoming much much easier to walk away from. This is coming from someone who has played since TBC launch and avid achievement/mount/pet collector.

1000% agree. I thought quitting WoW would be harder than kicking cigarettes (which I did earlier this year and was surprisingly very easy) and it really just wasn't. I knew that it just wasn't for me anymore and I was just...well...done.

Originally Posted by Yukionna

5.0 hits, and although it had some good things, most additions were terrible...my fps drops on a very good machine

I hadn't even thought of the FPS issue to be honest. I remember when LFR came out I hated it because I have a pretty good machine myself and I was getting about 10 fps, it was ridiculous. I thought it was pretty self defeating on Blizzard's part to make a "casual" version of the raid when "casuals" generally don't have modded systems that could handle a decent FPS rate in 25 man cross realm Dragon Soul, even on the lowest graphics settings.

Again it just goes to prove what you were saying about Blizzard just not thinking things through very well for the last year or so, just like their delusion here with CRZ's, that they're going to be anything other than an absolute haven for trolls, griefers, gankers...now there's no escape from the jerks you find in randoms, not even in the comfort of your own realm.

I'm playing an human monk in elwynn atm... I HATE that... Too much people stealing my mobs.

If I wanted to play on HIGH or FULL population, I'd choose one before.

Really? I've taken my monk up to 35 and haven't noticed a single bit of difference. Haven't had to fight for quests mobs, or drops. haven't been ganked once. What are you all doing wrong that is so different then how I play the game?

I have made two toons since CRZ came in, druid and pally both to about 40 ish so far. Absolutely loving CRZ, there is life in the world again ! also I am on a pvp server. Seriously, if you dont want to be ganked go to a pve server. Otherwise suck it up, that is what pvp servers are all about.

Bullshit.

B-U-L-L-S-H-I-T.

Blasted lands. Ready to cross the dark portal. 40 deaths trying to cross it. 30 deaths while levelling. 70 fuckin deaths due to a group of lvl 90 horde assholes ganking lowbies like there's no tomorrow. Thanks to your 'loved' CRZ 'feature'. The whole place is a cemetery flooded with corpses. Thanks to another fiasco feature: CRZ.

One thing is PvP. Another one is WPvP. But being ganked like a pig, and being unable to progress in a game THAT I'M PAYING EACH AND EVERY MONTH, is a fuckin' different one.

What CRZs simply do is highlight and magnify a big flaw in Blizzard's design: cooperation between players is actually discouraged.
Things like:
- Mob tagging.
- Stealing herb/mining nodes.
- Pick up quests which are more efficient solo than grouping.
really don't make players help each other, instead it encourages jerk behavior.

Modern games like Guild Wars 2 and future Elder Scrolls Online already do away with these outdated mechanics. Even though Blizzard is improving slightly in this direction (e.g. named mobs in MoP award everyone who hits it quest credit), it's still not enough and right now Blizzard is not innovating at all, just copying others designs.

Blasted lands. Ready to cross the dark portal. 40 deaths trying to cross it. 30 deaths while levelling. 70 fuckin deaths due to a group of lvl 90 horde assholes ganking lowbies like there's no tomorrow. Thanks to your 'loved' CRZ 'feature'. The whole place is a cemetery flooded with corpses. Thanks to another fiasco feature: CRZ.

One thing is PvP. Another one is WPvP. But being ganked like a pig, and being unable to progress in a game THAT I'M PAYING EACH AND EVERY MONTH, is a fuckin' different one.

Except CRZ has made it far more prevalent. I can understand why some people are annoyed. What was once a fairly rare occurrence as you leveled has become commonplace.

PvP happend in realms made for open world PvP. Working as intended. If you don't like open world PvP, don't play on realms specifically made for open world PvP.

Problem solved.

---------- Post added 2012-11-11 at 01:45 AM ----------

Originally Posted by corebit

What CRZs simply do is highlight and magnify a big flaw in Blizzard's design: cooperation between players is actually discouraged.
Things like:
- Mob tagging.
- Stealing herb/mining nodes.
- Pick up quests which are more efficient solo than grouping.
really don't make players help each other, instead it encourages jerk behavior.

Modern games like Guild Wars 2 and future Elder Scrolls Online already do away with these outdated mechanics. Even though Blizzard is improving slightly in this direction (e.g. named mobs in MoP award everyone who hits it quest credit), it's still not enough and right now Blizzard is not innovating at all, just copying others designs.

This modern games you are talking, are huge sucesses in the mmo-rpg genere!! I think blizzard should learn from this great games! (/sarcasm off)

Last edited by AiAtola; 2012-11-11 at 01:46 AM.

"PvE is like playing chess against an opponent that makes the same moves everytime"

Back during BC, I was ganked over and over by higher levels when I first started playing. It was frustrating and it sucked, but that's what I got got rolling a PvP server. CrZ brought that back. That was back when the servers were full to the max. What's not to love about having that again years later? It must be people who were never around to experience it, else why would those people who were complain? Makes no sense.

You know there is a big flaw in the game design when adding more people to the game causes people to be annoyed.

Maybe I'm old-skool, I seriously can't imagine a few years ago anyone would complain as heavily as people do nowadays about getting ganked. It was considered part of the game... if you played Super Mario goombas could kill you if you didn't watch out, or a slight misstep could mean Game Over. In other old mmos ganking used to give you rewards and allowed you even to get part of their money and gear. People used to make big groups just to warrant eachother's safety, lots of community and social dynamics happened.

But things change I guess... Things that were considered common in video games a few years ago aren't considered sensible anymore. People seem to want to have mostly a solo-player experience even in an mmo game.

Sometimes it really makes me wonder where exactly the "mmo" part is in World of Warcraft. Compared to other older mmo games there is just so many ways you can play this game fine ignoring interacting with anyone, with LFR even raiding isn't really a real multiplayer experience anymore... just 25 people thrown together ignoring eachother playing the game like it's single player. There is no real obligation in the game of having to deal with other people, having to gain their favour, having to depend on their trade, services or protection. A lot of trees but no real forest, a lot of people but no real mmo.

Maybe Blizzard should start thinking about redesigning the whole world pvp system a bit... so people are "happy" to see more people out in the world instead of annoyed. Guild Wars 2 is probably a good example of how it could be approached... but I remember in other games like Lineage 2 too you sometimes also were happy you weren't the only one in an area so these tough mobs would go down easier and with less risk.

I MAY quit over CRZ. Don't get me wrong, I actually like having people in the world again.

What I DON'T like is that, ever since its inception, my WoW ping has sporadically been absolutely through the fucking roof, connecting and disconnecting me from the game, making the game near unplayable for me. And yes, I know it's my WoW ping, my internet is still running well, and I had tried disabling all my addons. I love the game, and want to do more, but if a game is unplayable...well, that's where I lose my patience.

You know there is a big flaw in the game design when adding more people to the game causes people to be annoyed.

Maybe I'm old-skool, I seriously can't imagine a few years ago anyone would complain as heavily as people do nowadays about getting ganked. It was considered part of the game... if you played Super Mario goombas could kill you if you didn't watch out, or a slight misstep could mean Game Over. In other old mmos ganking used to give you rewards and allowed you even to get part of their money and gear. People used to make big groups just to warrant eachother's safety, lots of community and social dynamics happened.

But things change I guess... Things that were considered common in video games a few years ago aren't considered sensible anymore. People seem to want to have mostly a solo-player experience even in an mmo game.

Sometimes it really makes me wonder where exactly the "mmo" part is in World of Warcraft. Compared to other older mmo games there is just so many ways you can play this game fine ignoring interacting with anyone, with LFR even raiding isn't really a real multiplayer experience anymore... just 25 people thrown together ignoring eachother playing the game like it's single player. There is no real obligation in the game of having to deal with other people, having to gain their favour, having to depend on their trade, services or protection. A lot of trees but no real forest, a lot of people but no real mmo.

Maybe Blizzard should start thinking about redesigning the whole world pvp system a bit... so people are "happy" to see more people out in the world instead of annoyed. Guild Wars 2 is probably a good example of how it could be approached... but I remember in other games like Lineage 2 too you sometimes also were happy you weren't the only one in an area so these tough mobs would go down easier and with less risk.

Well, you see, you're right. The reason? People nowadays say "social" when what they mean is "a lot of people are near me, but don't actually affect me in any way."

GW2? Single player game, all the way. "But there's all these people!" you might say. On the other hand, none of them actually affect you. You kill whatever mob you want, mine whatever ore you want, pick whatever plant you want, completely irrelevant as to whether anyone else is there. Do a quest: lots of people there, but you still do the quest on your own, in your own way, at your own pace, regardless.

Lots of people want WoW to be that way. Blizz (and a lot of the older players, by which I mean "have been playing longer", not "more birthdays") wants WoW to be a game in which you actually interact with others. You might have to fight over a mining node. You might be diplomatic and discuss it with them. You might stay out of each other's way. You might join up with a guild to ease the burden of all that interaction, so that you have new interactions with people you trust.

We want a game in which you do not say "stop letting other people affect me!" but in which you say "how can I interact with other people to get what I want." Notice that I didn't necessarily say "how can I interact cooperatively with other people to get what I want." but maybe "how can I make a deal with another person to get what I want." or "how can I get around this person to get what I want." or even "how can I get what I want while keeping this person that had bothered me from getting what they want."

We want a game with other players in it, not a game with a bunch of quest NPC's that help us do quests (except they happen to be controlled by other people, technically).

Maybe a lot of people want that game, the game that's basically Skyrim where other people are their companions instead of a rudimentary AI. Blizzard doesn't seem to want that game, I don't want that game, and I'd bet quite a few other people don't, either.

My big problems with CRZ is the bugs it brings. I'm not that worried over the fishing tournament, which was working 100% fine until CRZ. But I know a lot of people did like it, and want it back. What angers me the most about CRZ though, is that it makes passenger mounts absolutely useless outside of Pandaria. The other day my guild leader wanted a scarlet monastary run on his monk for a staff drop. I said alright, he got on my rocket in stormwind, and we took off. Passed out of stormwind and into elwynn just fine. Hit burning steppes, he gets booted off. I wait for him to appear and he gets back on and we proceed. We hit searing gorge, boom he's off again. Same proceedure. We start flying into dun morogh, he drops off into the ocean and took a bit to find him. We pass into wetlands with no issues. Hit arathi, bam, knocked off. At that point we were just outright annoyed with CRZ. And what does blizzard say about it?

Q: CRZ - Some players report their client's framerate hitching when crossing into a CRZ zone – frequently leading to the next issue: Players say they're still getting dismounted when crossing borders. Other border anomalies include seeing resource nodes/NPCs/players disappear. Players comment that the world feels much more fragmented. How are you working to smooth these types of issues out?
A: There are still some tech related quirks that are being hashed out, and as data is collected, we’ll be continuing to work on making CRZ smoother for players. As for dismounting, single-player mounts should not being doing this so please forward details if it’s happening. With two-player mounts, however, there are limitations with the technology involved in CRZ and it is intended that the passenger is ejected upon crossing zones. We don’t like that it happens, but it might be a difficult issue to solve for only about 3 passenger-enabled mounts.

That is just infuriating. Then there's the matter of obnoxious people. I am on Wyrmrest Accord. It is a high population server, doesn't need CRZ. During one RP session which took place at the gurubashi arena, we were doing an intro into our guild for some new characters. The other people from our realm who were in the arena, left us alone after seeing we were just RPing. But one player from another server decided she'd try to gank our lowest member. Our guild leader 1 shot her. She revived and tried attacking my character. Again, splat. We wrapped up the RP, myself and the guild leader got on our flying mounts and took off, the lowbie wanted to do the quest there at the arena. The person from the other realm decided to hop onto an 85 character and gank her, then started sending me the nastiest whispers.

Our home server is respectful to each other. But other servers, are not showing similar respect. Another case in point was during pirate day. Nothing like people from other realms stacking on the one npc that gives the achievement for the holiday event, with their giant mammoths and protodrakes, after they drank an elixir of giant growth. Not pvp flagged either. Worse of all. No one can report them. Right clicking them and clicking report player brings up the error "that character does not exist". So I can see why people would be quitting the game. A system that should not of been released to live, put on live when it definitely needs a lot more work. Blizzard doing nothing about actual griefing. And instead of turning it off for now to fix the game breaking bugs, they make excuses and tell people to deal with it. So yeah, I can understand why people are quitting, and are saying they are going to quit. Hell if my guild and friends weren't there, I probably would of quit. As it stands, my guildies, friends have ongoing RP that holds me to the game. They are my anchor to this game.

The stickied thread on the official forums has a list of CRZ issues that have nothing to do with pvp.

If CRZs were enabled in Pandaria, Org and SW, more players would begin to have issues with it. CRZ is a wonderful idea, but it's not working as well as it could. Instead of admitting issues exist, Blizzard's response calls many of these issues "quirks" and states other issues are intended or not fixable, so some players are unhappy.

You guys should read the list of issues people are having before making your "pvp realm, deal with it" posts.

My big problems with CRZ is the bugs it brings. I'm not that worried over the fishing tournament, which was working 100% fine until CRZ. But I know a lot of people did like it, and want it back. What angers me the most about CRZ though, is that it makes passenger mounts absolutely useless outside of Pandaria. The other day my guild leader wanted a scarlet monastary run on his monk for a staff drop. I said alright, he got on my rocket in stormwind, and we took off. Passed out of stormwind and into elwynn just fine. Hit burning steppes, he gets booted off. I wait for him to appear and he gets back on and we proceed. We hit searing gorge, boom he's off again. Same proceedure. We start flying into dun morogh, he drops off into the ocean and took a bit to find him. We pass into wetlands with no issues. Hit arathi, bam, knocked off. At that point we were just outright annoyed with CRZ. And what does blizzard say about it?

It's so awful that I actually quit WoW over it. Not paying $45/mon if I can't play the game as intended. Intended for me was leveling my alts without game lockups so bad it took the task manager to force closing WoW get out of it. Can't play a game like that at all.

I'm sure I'm not the only one that left due to the mess, and won't be the last.

From the #1 Cata review on Amazon.com: "Blizzard's greatest misstep was blaming players instead of admitting their mistakes.
They've convinced half of the population that the other half are unskilled whiners, causing a permanent rift in the community."