Have you played the demo? Well, this is the thread for you! Please share all your thoughts, good or bad, in this thread! We really dig hearing from you guys, and we're looking forward to hearing what you think about the demo.

Has anyone completed the demo and collected all the scrolls yet? I would love to see what others are capable of as far as speed runs. I assume most people are just emailing their runs, but if you want to share it, please do!

I will post mine eventually. I've been having a hard time making sure not to forget a scroll or two while still going as quickly as I can even though I know where they all are. So I've decided I should take a break after trying like ~20 times in a row.

Also, I love the demo. It's one of the best paltformers I've played in a very long time, the art style, graphics detail, and story telling are excellent. The learning curve is very short and the controls are simple, yet the puzzles are not. Which is a good thing. When I first played this game, I was amazed at how polished it really is and how well done the game is, it's as if it's being developed by a large game studio. This game has tons potential. Ok enough, before my nose turns brown.

Here is a video of my best run so far. Time is 9:47 with 1 unintentional death that cost me 10 seconds. I loose about 8 seconds in the boss fight and most likely easy 5-10 more seconds that can be shaved through out the run.
So I am expecting that the best times will be 9:20-30 assuming a descent amount of people will compete, that this is the fastest route and no shortcuts are found. I don't think sub 9:00 is possible but sub 9:10 might be possible with this route.

From a speedrunning standpoint I like most of the level design except for the library scroll(Second last scroll I get). It just feels like too far back with no shortcuts to get back to it and relatively far to the shortcut to continue as well. Now it might not be quite that far if the intention is to get the scroll by the gloves on the way back as well but the jump over is relatively easy without the blink and you can make it even easier with punching the block underneath( which I assume is the actual design).
I like how there are different routes, that you can always get back to any room and that getting the scrolls is a lot harder then the simple route of running through the game.

It did take me a while to understand the controls and what I can and can't hit, most notably how to punch downwards. It also took some time to get used to the difference of moving forward and blinking vs. stationary blinking though that is mostly a good thing. It might be better if there is a short cutscenes that show another person doing the moves with controls shown.

I got it in 9:29. We use the same paths, but I figured this morning I could get the chapel scroll jumping, but I used the glove to make the block go a little up, I thought I couldnt reach it without that help. Same with the first scroll you get, I got it when I go to the library, using the teleport to do it faster when you use the blue robot hit you, it seems better your way so you don't have to go back another screen. For the rest is luck with the boss to not lose time. I lost a live to a dog while using teleport but I was lucky it was a couple of seconds only.
With the laptop I use for recording games freezes and took me a lot to record it, if I try to make it faster I'll use the normal one and screen the time or it will be a pain. I already had to lower all the details to minimun
I agree that less than 9 sounds impossible, maybe without any kind mistake. 9:1X sounds more like it.
I like the way the movements are shown by drawings in the landscape, it remembers me to Abe's Oddysee. I prefer that than any other kind of tutorial, like in the screen of the boots for example

New video with my new best time of 9:10. I have one miss on the boss fight thats costs me about 6-7 second. There are also some minor movement errors that might add up to 2-4 seconds in total. 8:5x might be theoretically possible but I doubt it will happen unless a shortcut or route change is found.

I think I am done with running this unless a quicker route is found and posted. I have only had 2 faultless boss fights in 20-30 tries so not worth the effort to try for one with everything else working as well. Might start it up once in a while just for fun but no serious running.
Looking forward to the full game for some more speedrunning

Now is 8:52 ! But I think I only lost a couple of seconds in a jump, and maybe another couple on the boss (I had a box on the entrance of the next screen and had to push it T_T)
For the rest, I think I did it the best I could.

PD: Damn the video didn't not record properly.. : / On the laptop the game freeze, the big computer goes fine, but I was using dvi with the pvr2 capturer.. Hard to make the video then

With the changes to the route that KeinZantezuken posted I believe 8:35 is possible with making the caterpillar punch and 8:39 without it. I have a video where i fail the chandelier jumps and got a time of 8:36 and it would have taken me 6 more seconds to get the last scroll.

Doubt I will post that video but with the changes to the route I have started trying again and I am expecting to get a low 8:4x time at some point.

The third tip isn't that hard, especially if you have trained the jump+blink through the current, just takes some time to get used to a new pattern for the room.

I have found a couple of small time savers but 1 is very risky and the other is hard to do without a slowdown. One is when running back through the room in tip #2, you can drop down and blink to grab the ledge on the other side saving some time but its hard to do with the screen switching from the room before + jumping over something first. It is easy if you slow slightly down and drop down instead of jump down but not sure it is a time saver then.
The other I mentioned on steam and is on the second to last scroll where you can drop straight down and blink to grab the overhang ledge instead of landing first and then jump+blink. I find that one to be too risky and it only saves about 1 second.

After looking at the video of my failed run I mentioned above I believe I am losing 14-17 seconds counting the 2nd tip and 2seconds from the minor savers mentioned above. Based on that I think 8:25 might be possible. I doubt a time under 8:30 is likely to happen but I think a better time then what Metr has is likely. I will continue trying until I get a sub 8:45 time but I have never considered myself a great speedrunner so I will not press myself any further then that. I would say it is about 50/50 if I beat Metr's 8:38 time.

(08-23-2013, 04:25)JanuZ Wrote: The third tip isn't that hard, especially if you have trained the jump+blink through the current, just takes some time to get used to a new pattern for the room.

I have found a couple of small time savers but 1 is very risky and the other is hard to do without a slowdown. One is when running back through the room in tip #2, you can drop down and blink to grab the ledge on the other side saving some time but its hard to do with the screen switching from the room before + jumping over something first. It is easy if you slow slightly down and drop down instead of jump down but not sure it is a time saver then.
The other I mentioned on steam and is on the second to last scroll where you can drop straight down and blink to grab the overhang ledge instead of landing first and then jump+blink. I find that one to be too risky and it only saves about 1 second.

After looking at the video of my failed run I mentioned above I believe I am losing 14-17 seconds counting the 2nd tip and 2seconds from the minor savers mentioned above. Based on that I think 8:25 might be possible. I doubt a time under 8:30 is likely to happen but I think a better time then what Metr has is likely. I will continue trying until I get a sub 8:45 time but I have never considered myself a great speedrunner so I will not press myself any further then that. I would say it is about 50/50 if I beat Metr's 8:38 time.

8:22 using the tips, but falling on the second lamp and I would say no fails until there and killing the boss without time lose. So I expect 8:26-27. I need to cut the other video but I was trying to make a better one. It will be up tomorrow if I don't get the one with these tips.
The ledge scroll usually give me a hard time even falling from it, 50% I fail miserably. And I hate those lamps

PD: The third tip is faster if you try to be on the final platform before the lightning, you have a nice % to die squashed if you teleport while he's coming to you even if you are already on that ledge.

(08-23-2013, 04:38)Metr Wrote: 8:22 using the tips, but falling on the second lamp and I would say no fails until there and killing the boss without time lose. So I expect 8:26-27. I need to cut the other video but I was trying to make a better one. It will be up tomorrow if I don't get the one with these tips.
The ledge scroll usually give me a hard time even falling from it, 50% I fail miserably. And I hate those lamps

PD: The third tip is faster if you try to be on the final platform before the lightning, you have a nice % to die squashed if you teleport while he's coming to you even if you are already on that ledge.

PD2: :O

Processing video! O_o

Looking forward to the video. I can't see where a full 6 seconds extra are coming from based on my runs. About the third tip, the last jump was the biggest problem for me to start with after making it the first time but lately it hasn't been as big a problem as I stopped panicking and blinking early, There is a good visual cue on when to blink with the edge of the magnetic field. But yes the window is tight and you can't have any dead time on the jumps up. The last 4 fails for me have either been be blinking early into the first jump or missing the ledge grab on that jump and not having the time to get up.

I am not seeing where those 6 seconds faster then my 8:25 prediction as optimal are coming from so I am going to compare my video with yours screen by screen. I was actually expecting a perfect run so I am amazed that I found things to nitpick at . Time losses that I can find in the video:

At 4:35 you don't blink straight into the second cage in the cage room, and it is possible to do the last jump over the boots straight through the pole.
At 6:04 in the video you don't have to wait for the robot to drop you can jump up and touch it without problems.
Some minor movement issues at 7:35.
At 7:45 you could have blinked into the electricity for a slightly faster suicide.
At 8:00 you miss the flower and it is possible to grab the ledge on the other side and not have to climb the vines.

Not sure yet what time we are talking about losing here but I am guessing it is less then 5seconds total. There are also small faster routes that are very hard 5:35 and 7:40 to grab the ledges without landing.

(08-23-2013, 20:06)JanuZ Wrote: I am not seeing where those 6 seconds faster then my 8:25 prediction as optimal are coming from so I am going to compare my video with yours screen by screen. I was actually expecting a perfect run so I am amazed that I found things to nitpick at . Time losses that I can find in the video:

At 4:35 you don't blink straight into the second cage in the cage room, and it is possible to do the last jump over the boots straight through the pole.
At 6:04 in the video you don't have to wait for the robot to drop you can jump up and touch it without problems.
Some minor movement issues at 7:35.
At 7:45 you could have blinked into the electricity for a slightly faster suicide.
At 8:00 you miss the flower and it is possible to grab the ledge on the other side and not have to climb the vines.

Not sure yet what time we are talking about losing here but I am guessing it is less then 5seconds total. There are also small faster routes that are very hard 5:35 and 7:40 to grab the ledges without landing.

I do that in 4:35 because is random the dog is waiting for you there, he killed me by doing so dozens of times without being able to avoid it by blinking or whatever, sometimes I risk there, but with the boss killed perfect I didn't want to check
6:04 really I know, but I was not sure if pushing it will make me lose more time or not, so I didn't take the risk.
7:35 or so, that part the blinks are rather unstable, due to the top platform with the root, so I jump and then try to reach that top before falling, but it's a % I get on the top, also failed the ledge.
7:40, really I tried like 20 times your technique, and failed every time. I usually fail getting to the ledge, going down and blinking (I don't know but I'm cursed in that part), I failed 5-6 times before that one with everything ok before that. That's why I didn't blink after getting the scroll, my right hand was in punch mode high celebrating I didn't fall From there I usually sweat a lot and get nervous thinking about falling on the f.. lamps
8:00 I missed the flower, I usually do that.
Don't know which is the 5:35 small faster route, I think if I don't fail the blink to the ledge, is the faster route.

You know well It's complicated that everything goes fine in a single run, usually you do a part perfect, and then fail one easy part and you wanna break the keyboard
Anyways this time is not possible without all your inputs, but by now I'll take a rest, it would be lots of attemps to try to improve a couple of seconds, but I'll try, there's still a lot of competition time left

Yeah, I seriously doubt this time is beatable without some insane luck and someone better then me. I have started comparing the videos and since I have some time losses early in my video it isn't very easy to compare but you are 1second ahead of me by the first scroll and 15 by the end of the boss fight where I was expecting 10-11 seconds. That one second on the first scroll might be in big part that you drop down the second gap not needing to care about possibly grabbing the ledge but for the most part it just seems that every minute or so you are gaining 1second based on being slightly faster in small things like turning faster to grab vines to climb to gloves or timing offscreen jumps and punches better.

The dog should almost never be able to eat you when you blink into the cage, he is either at the wall or in the middle after my experience, either position he is either far away or you will land on top of him and run over him. Of course if you blink late you end up being eaten because you come too low to land on top of him.

As for the 5:35 I am just talking about the blink to grab the ledge instead of dropping down. I am not expecting that to be a high success chance move so wouldn't really count it as time losses bu rather low % chance of time saving.
The 7:40 Ledge grab is insane and in no way worth trying. I managed to make it about 1 out of every 10 tries when I was just testing it and it is a 1 second gain risking 10 second loss. In addition I almost always climbed up negating the time saved when managing the grab.

(08-23-2013, 20:54)JanuZ Wrote: Yeah, I seriously doubt this time is beatable without some insane luck and someone better then me. I have started comparing the videos and since I have some time losses early in my video it isn't very easy to compare but you are 1second ahead of me by the first scroll and 15 by the end of the boss fight where I was expecting 10-11 seconds. That one second on the first scroll might be in big part that you drop down the second gap not needing to care about possibly grabbing the ledge but for the most part it just seems that every minute or so you are gaining 1second based on being slightly faster in small things like turning faster to grab vines to climb to gloves or timing offscreen jumps and punches better.

The dog should almost never be able to eat you when you blink into the cage, he is either at the wall or in the middle after my experience, either position he is either far away or you will land on top of him and run over him. Of course if you blink late you end up being eaten because you come too low to land on top of him.

As for the 5:35 I am just talking about the blink to grab the ledge instead of dropping down. I am not expecting that to be a high success chance move so wouldn't really count it as time losses bu rather low % chance of time saving.
The 7:40 Ledge grab is insane and in no way worth trying. I managed to make it about 1 out of every 10 tries when I was just testing it and it is a 1 second gain risking 10 second loss. In addition I almost always climbed up negating the time saved when managing the grab.

The 1 second from the first scroll is because you wait for the robot outside of the blue zone, I wait inside (you have to move fast as it hits you or you'll die on the top by the lift), but you save some little time waiting for the robot to come to you. I usually jump the little gap for that ledge issue also that could happen. The other time lose is on 02:08 of your 9:10 video, you don't get to the worm before it gets inside and you have to wait for it. Arrive in time to hit it before that is pretty hard to do it in my opinion, and also you have a lot of % of failure if you try to be in time on the platform and the worm being below and lift it. I hardly arrive in my video and I had to restart there several times. And then the mayor lose of time is because at that time you didn't perform the first trick from Kein, now I jump on the robot and try to get inside the tunnel, but is hard to get inside with that second jump from the robot, if you miss it, the blue aura will be off before getting the path opened, and that's a LOT of time saving.
At 2:41 of your 9:10 video also, if you make a short jump instead of a long one, you can pass without hitting the pipe, but that's only another second or so, but you arrive with better time to hit the robot head and go for the next room.
By the way I didn't realise you stick to the left while Fernus is doing the flame attack, love that, it's not always easy to get back to the central position if you wait on the right side as I usually do due to the boxes.
Maybe the dog is avoidable, maybe I ended so close to the middle when I blinked inside, I should take some time to learn to react better there or blink before to be sticked inside at the left of the cage

As already mentioned, you wasted quite a lot of time on 4:35 (the monster is always on the same spot if you do everything in tact) and at 8:00 (why do you even took that route, you could easily grab the further ledge).

By the way, watching your fight with the boss I realized you could save one second if you managed to save somehow one big box at the end so you could use it and jump right to the opening gates as you did in 03:49 while he was self-destructing. Pure luck but it would indeed save some time (by the way, what is your gfx settings?).

Hmm, I wonder if there is a trick with game mechanics to avoid the fight with the boss...

(08-23-2013, 21:21)Metr Wrote: The 1 second from the first scroll is because you wait for the robot outside of the blue zone, I wait inside (you have to move fast as it hits you or you'll die on the top by the lift), but you save some little time waiting for the robot to come to you. I usually jump the little gap for that ledge issue also that could happen. The other time lose is on 02:08 of your 9:10 video, you don't get to the worm before it gets inside and you have to wait for it. Arrive in time to hit it before that is pretty hard to do it in my opinion, and also you have a lot of % of failure if you try to be in time on the platform and the worm being below and lift it. I hardly arrive in my video and I had to restart there several times. And then the mayor lose of time is because at that time you didn't perform the first trick from Kein, now I jump on the robot and try to get inside the tunnel, but is hard to get inside with that second jump from the robot, if you miss it, the blue aura will be off before getting the path opened, and that's a LOT of time saving.
At 2:41 of your 9:10 video also, if you make a short jump instead of a long one, you can pass without hitting the pipe, but that's only another second or so, but you arrive with better time to hit the robot head and go for the next room.
By the way I didn't realise you stick to the left while Fernus is doing the flame attack, love that, it's not always easy to get back to the central position if you wait on the right side as I usually do due to the boxes.
Maybe the dog is avoidable, maybe I ended so close to the middle when I blinked inside, I should take some time to learn to react better there or blink before to be sticked inside at the left of the cage

I am comparing to a video of 8:36( would have been 8:42 without fall) time with a fall of the chandelier that I haven't uploaded so there are some big changes in my movement compared to 9:10 video.

Yes the 1 second is due to multiple small things among them that you stand slightly farther in, jumping the gap lets you keep forward momentum and you are 0.2 seconds faster in the room in front aswell.
I haven't been able to make the worm hit consistently so have just decided that it is 3-4 seconds that I will almost always lose.

The key to the dog is that you want to land in the middle of there because if he is in the middle and you are high enough you land on top of him and he will not eat you, the key being jumping late of the edge and blinking at the top of the jump arc.

As for your time losses on the 8:19 run:

1 second on the dogs, though the actual dog blink isn't what costs you the most time, its that you use 2 blinks to get over the gap after him. It is doable in one or you could blink earlier so that you don't have to wait a short while to be able to blink again.
0.5 seconds because you use long time dropping down at 5:00( might be more if you drop straight down into the gap but that is very risky. )
1.5 seconds because you waited on the robot at 6:04
0.5 seconds because you hit the pipe at 7:21. If you avoid it you don't need to climb
0.5 seconds on the movement mistakes at 7:35
The no blink back at 7:40 is less then half a second.
1.5 seconds because you miss the flower and go up vines instead of left side.
2 Seconds more are possible with the blink ledge grabs
1 second on random small stuff that gathers up throughout the run.

So I am guessing that optimal time is 8:12 and I am not seeing it being likely that anyone will get closer to it then 8:19.

(08-23-2013, 21:56)Kein Wrote: As already mentioned, you wasted quite a lot of time on 4:35 (the monster is always on the same spot if you do everything in tact) and at 8:00 (why do you even took that route, you could easily grab the further ledge).

By the way, watching your fight with the boss I realized you could save one second if you managed to save somehow one big box at the end so you could use it and jump right to the opening gates as you did in 03:49 while he was self-destructing. Pure luck but it would indeed save some time (by the way, what is your gfx settings?).

Hmm, I wonder if there is a trick with game mechanics to avoid the fight with the boss...

I doubt there is, you can't see if the gate is open or not and while it might be possible to go over the trigger that starts the fight there is no way to actually get that high if it is possible.
What I have been wondering is if it is possible to get 2 cubes at once for a double hit though I can't see that it could be done consistently.

The demo actually contains a bug regarding this double-box-eating business. If you feed the boss two boxes at exactly the moment when he starts slurping, he will get out of sync, and I've seen the game freeze completely.

This bug has been dealt with for future builds, but he's only going to eat one of the boxes anyway.

(08-23-2013, 21:56)Kein Wrote: As already mentioned, you wasted quite a lot of time on 4:35 (the monster is always on the same spot if you do everything in tact) and at 8:00 (why do you even took that route, you could easily grab the further ledge).

By the way, watching your fight with the boss I realized you could save one second if you managed to save somehow one big box at the end so you could use it and jump right to the opening gates as you did in 03:49 while he was self-destructing. Pure luck but it would indeed save some time (by the way, what is your gfx settings?).

Hmm, I wonder if there is a trick with game mechanics to avoid the fight with the boss...

I use a box to jump on the ledge before the fires dissapear (a small size box doesn't work). To do it before while the platform is moving if you see when I jumped you need either 2 boxes together or one big crossed (that's what I used on the video), you can't reach there with a simple big box (or that's what I think).

My gfx settings is 800x600 and lights minimum, game freezes in lots of spots if I don't set it that way, tried every other resolution. I was playing before on the laptop and the game freezes a lot for me in almost every screen (and if you blink you can end up in any other place but in the one you want), that's usually why I don't risk with some blinks, and maybe the dog is one of them. Anyways is one blink time that I lose in the dog. In the tunnel of 1:35 I ended up grabbing the vynes instead of falling while the game freezes on the laptop. Same with the fall to the boots, and lots of places. Now is rather playable but I got some mini-freezes already. That's why I think I die often in the ledge jumps for the second last scroll or blinking at 5:19.

At 8:00 maybe is faster jumping before, but still you have to jump twice and pass 2 ledges, more or less is the same time I spend on the vyne (I had to stop going up a little before but I passed the mark) and is only a movement for the final ledge.

Using an ATI Radeon HD 4800 series. Maybe the computer needs a cleaning to perform better.

Quote:What I have been wondering is if it is possible to get 2 cubes at once for a double hit though I can't see that it could be done consistently.

That would be impossible hard because once first cube reached the trigger zone it deactivates for a while it seems. Which means you need to somehow make 2 cubes to hit at EXACT, millisecond-precise moment. And it is a big question if the script will count it as a double-hit or one hit. I think the latter since it is fairly simple.

Quote:I doubt there is,

Who knows, nobody expected from SoTN to have so many tricks to skip boss fights. Teslagrad may as well have some flaws. I already found one - it has somehow stackable acceleration momentum. Remember that card right before the boss fight? You have to jump from the platform in order to get it. Well, I managed to get it WITHOUT using the platform at all. It is hard, yes, but doable. And this leads me to think there is more of similar tricks can be done with these mechanics.

Metr, did you mean that the game freezes during scene transitions, or otherwise? Anywhere in particular?

We're working on some serious memory consumption improvements, which will also reduce scene loading times. Scene loading happens in the background, but sometimes, it can affect the general performance for a moment.

We're also looking into physics and rendering performance tweaks. We want the game to run flawlessly everywhere of course :-)