First, I think FB's thread is very important. The answer to his question will often be a definite "NO." Life is more complicated than black and white, so depending on the circumstances, it is possible a victim and perpetrator could reach a level of understanding that could facilitate a better or even "good" relationship.

You listed several criteria that you used to make your case and I really have nothing else to add---except that a common theme between you and FB seems to be the young age of the perp. I can certainly see where an older--older than 19 or 20 year old could mature and change under some circumstances. I think a lack of violent behavior is key while acknowledging that behavior of the sort we're talking about is inappropriate under any circumstances.

The age differential between you and your brother in law is similar to the one between my perp and me(13 and 19). The guy who abused me was not family and he was violent. What started out as somewhat consensual playing around(but not really given the ages) turned violent and degrading when I didn't want to do what he asked. I could never forgive what happened. I'm thankful I don't have to share the same house, street, or town with him. That would be another layer to get through---and there's enough depth to this already.

FB- I have zero relations with my abusers from childhood, so I can't give much advice. Hopefully it will be a good holiday for your family and you and your brother can reclaim something you have lost. I know I miss all my bros, who were not my abusers, but remained silent even though they knew- but it is what it is. If you can find the words and courage to bond with your brother again, do so. Will be thinking of you.

Josh, my teenage perp was also my bro-n-law, as I told you before. He was 15yrs older and then divorced the sis when I grad from hs. btw... when I did try to talk to him about the 4 yrs he had me, he pretended not to have a clue. Well, we won't go into me, but you are right.... set your boundaries and stand tall. Your healing is your healing. And all of us are different.

Thanks so much everyone for your comments and sharing your experiences - both good and bad. It all helped me to be realistic about the weekend. To be honest I was a wreck leading up to the weekend and read all your posts but couldn't comment.

I was going through it all in my head .... not sleeping ... dreams about what happened ... wondering if I was overreacting to what happened and if it could have been 'normal' brotherly stuff. Feeling like it couldn't have been that bad if we were able to get close later in life .... when we were both men. My T suggested I focus on reconnecting with him as a brother first and not push any discussion about the abuse. If it came up fine but to be open to that coming later. To make this weekend about being the good brothers we once were.

Thinking about my childhood - the TRUTH is it was very messed up. We both grew up in a world were it seemed normal for boys to have sex with other boys. I have only realised about six months ago that it is not ok for boys / men to just have sex with eachother all the time. Even acting out while I was married seemed 'normal'. That is boys being boys. We were both abused by our older brother. In my brother's words he mistook 'natural male friendship/affection for something sexual'. It was what we knew. It does not make it ok. I see him as a victim in all this as well - even though what he did to me was very damaging and had lasting effects. Apart from the sexual abuse his bullying would include constantly calling me feminie and 'gay' names like sissy, poofter and faggot and that I would never be anything other than a man's sex toy. I always took on a feminie role.

I am sure amongst the 11195 users here there are quite a few that acted out after their CSA as teens with younger children. It happens and that is why some of us are here. It is not ok but I understand it and I don't think they should be condemned for life because of it. I think these confused boys can change and regret what they did. The extra guilt they must carry is huge. This does not however make the affects of what they did any less traumatic than if it had been an adult man. I have two brothers and I can draw a clear distinction between the type of perp they were.

Also the whole confusion of being groomed into non-violent sexual activity is so hard to explain. Others have a spoken about it and I will try again. It is the idea that this guy really cares about you and loves you and doing what he wants you to do is how you show you feel the same way. For some of us it was the only male love we knew. For some of us we grew to enjoy what happened and even seek it out. Even after time passes and you realise that what happened was not ok and was actually that guy using you/your body to get off...the feelings of being loved and cared for can still remain. It certainly messes with your mind. In some ways I can see that this brother included me in this sexual world as a 5-6 year old because he loved me and this was the only way he knew to show it. That is why incest can be so hard to deal with.

At some point in his mid teens he worked out it was wrong and stopped . By the time he could drive the bullying stopped (might have had something to do with me having girlfriends and him not). He started to accept me as a brother and do stuff with me. By the time I was married and we were finally at the same stage in life with kids the same age we were really close. Just the usual brotherly rivalry. One could say he grew out of it.

So.... the weekend. I was so anxious I took some Diazepam to calm me down. It was great to see my nephews again. I had a really close/encouraging relationship with them and always showed an interest in their lives. He looked old - like 10 years older not 4.5. Some of my friends commented on that. He is obviously troubled and depression and anxiety seem to run in our family (so does CSA but whatever). He has always been a 'down' sort of person. However on the weekend he did not have one negative thing to say (apart from disapproving of the beer I had at lunch and that I offered him one). He did seem happier than I had seen him in a while and his relationship with his wife seems better.

It was as if nothing had changed. Our kids played together, Our wives caught up on gossip, I taught his boys to ride quad bikes, I made them help me clean out the calf sheds, My brother and I did some cattle work on the ATVs, we went bass fishing in my creek, clay pigeon shooting, we ate lots of good food and talked about work and our aging parents future. It was a good weekend - very relaxed and natural to be in each others company.

Finally on Sunday afternoon it was raining and we were alone. We were just sitting on the verandah talking. I asked him what our older brother had said about my meeting. He said to stop playing games and if I wanted to tell him something to just say it. We talked about how our childhoods were messed up - cryptically about what our brother did to me and to him. He talked about how he overcame his problem with MBing and how he can see that came from stuff with our brother but he did not feel his depressiona and anxiety had anything to do with it. We talked about his 'friend' and I asked him if he remembered what happened when we went camping with his friend. I said that something happened between the 3 of us in the shower block then that was traumatic for me. He said he had no memory of that - but that doesn't mean it didn't happen. I left it at that and did not go into details. I figured for now it was enough to find solidarity in the abuse we both suffered and that our half brother is a convicted pedophile and the sexually charged environment we grew up in. That is more than we have ever talked about it. He is already a 'broken' man in so many ways - so what benefit would there be in bringing up the damage he caused to me. I do not want to be responsible for causing him to have a melt down. I guess I am still protecting him but that is what brothers do. He is good to me now and that is the most important thing. We may revisit his abuse of me at a later date and he might remember more.

I can accept that to him what happened between us was probably 'fooling around' and did not impact him greatly but to 5 year old me it was very traumatic. Like I said before that does not make it any less CSA.

If he starts to treat me poorly again or refuses to acknowledge the abuse I may have to cut him out of my life.

But for now I have my brother back. He did abuse me as a kid but I forgive him and I still love him (in a non-sexual way).

And thank you for this thread! I recognize so much and that is a relief. The post on normal brother stuff (showing how to MB) feels like a puzzle piece in its right place. That was what happened to me before the abuse. He asked me if i knew MB (i did, but i lied) and after that he abused me. One time only, after that it has never happened again.

But i never had a good relationship with him. A lot of fighting when we young. When he went to university, it got a lot better and after that it was pretty much ok. We didnt see eachother often, but there was an ok relation. Hoewever, now with the abuse coming to the surface its changed. I feel like im afraid of him in some way. I find it difficult. I just want to have a normal relationship, but at the same time i want to think of myself. In a way i know i love him, but there's also pain. So i want to build it up again, but perhaps its good if i explain him some of my feelings. Its so conflicting.. But this topic gives me insight in what a relationship with a brother looks like!

Edited by OCN (04/01/1308:20 AM)

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Trust me, you are worth it to love yourself!

You are an amazingly good brother, and this is one of the most moving examples of legitimate forgiveness I've ever seen. At the same time I'm just as glad that you are willing and able to "build a high fence" should that become necessary.

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