Posted
by
Soulskill
on Monday February 07, 2011 @07:06PM
from the take-this-free-trial-and-shove-it dept.

MojoKid writes "This is the final straw, the last stand. This is the year that companies have to wise up and realize that they're destroying the experience of the very machines they are marketing so vigorously against their competitors. We're talking about bloatware, and it's an issue that we simply cannot remain silent on any longer. The term 'bloatware' generally refers to any additional software installed on a machine that is not a native part of the operating system. 'Bloatware' is usually provided by third-party software companies, and can range from security suites to unwanted Web browser toolbars. It's most problematic, as these programs generally attempt to boot up first thing, right as the OS is booting up, before the end-user ever has a chance to launch the program on their own accord. It's time for manufacturers to take note: consumers do not want bloatware. It's a royal pain from top to bottom, and moreover, it ruins your brand. When people think of HP and Dell, they immediately think of just how infuriating it is that their last 'new' PC took over one minute to boot up and become usable. To these companies: why are you saddling your machines with software that makes it less enjoyable to use? The solution seems pretty simple. If you still wish to include loads upon loads of third-party software, stick it all on a thumb drive and include it with every new machine. Problem solved."

The question was ridiculous. How did such shallow crybabying get to a slashdot feature? Hasn't that poor schmuck ever heard of DIY computers and GNU/Linux? Most likely (like a lot of us), there's some have-to-have Windows software he needs, so he's screwed and has to get a cheap commercial Windows box. Bummer, man. That's the way it is.

The problem is that you shouldn't have to do that with an OS that you're paying for. It's not that big a deal if you're intending to wipe out the OS in favor of something else, but the problem is that the bloatware tends to get included on the install media. Meaning that everytime you reinstall you're stuck with the same bloatware.

I remember having PC-Cillin running at 99% immediately upon boot with my Vaio laptop. And because Sony insisted on not shipping a proper install CD it ended up being a real pain.

And, happily, you don't. You can buy PCs from any of thousands of vendors (or roll your own) without that experience. The OS is just part of what most people buy from a typical large retailer. If they don't like that experience any more than they like having an activated-for-one-year OnStar system in the car they just bought, they can shop for their computer (and their car) somewhere else. It's called a market, and it does offer more alternatives than you can count.

Yes, that's what you get by buying an HP or Dell or similar. If you buy those computers, because of the low advertised price, you have to know that that's because the version of Windows that's included is loaded up with a lot of shit you can't remove. If you want the "real" version of Windows, you'll have to pay for that separately.They get giant kickbacks by giving you a version of Windows loaded with a lot of shit. Then they pass those savings (or at least some of them) to you, which is why their price

That is actually the reason why we stopped using parallel cables for HDDs and moved to Serial ATA. The data rate was so high that the bits sent in parallel would arrive out of sync because some took slightly longer than others to reach the other end of the cable. With a differential serial connection there is only one bit being sent at a time so it doesn't matter.

Even buses on the motherboard are starting to suffer from this problem. On a 3GHz HyperTransport bus a state chage (0->1 or 1->0) can propag

I watched a colleague of mine hand a receptionist a Ububtu CD, show her how to boot from CD on his own PC and that was it. After the weekend she came back in saying how fantastic it was. She emails, surfs and plays games. What more are computers at home for?

The lady apparently got no help from anyone else in her house and did it while husband & kids were watching TV.

You didn't ask the first time. For simple web browsing, email applications, etc. it does have a minimal learning curve until something goes wrong. Then you have to wade through forums, sometimes obscure ones, to figure out what went wrong. Im used to doing that on Windows machines mostly by myself but it always seemed like more of a pain in my ass to fix Linux problems. Sometimes you run into a brick wall where it just says "Sorry, it just wont work until they release a new distribution". Specifically, one problem I had was with a Matlab installation and another was with getting audio drivers to work through JACK and Ardour. I can use a Unix command prompt as I have to for work, and I understand basic Linux (I have read several books on the subject) but I am not a Linux enthusiast nor am I a hardcore CS dude that can code my way out of a problem. I just tried to switch on two occasions to Ubuntu and CentOS and found both severely lacking in ease of use for what I needed my machine to do. Linux (specifically Ubuntu) needs some growth yet for it to be user friendly enough for the people inbetween CS gurus and basic users to be able to do what they want without spending hours handling problems that should be trivial. Granted, its free so I shouldn't be bitching, however it supports my hypothesis that the market is not a free market because you either go with Linux and waste valuable time or go with the Windows/MacOS oligopoly and waste dollars.

Then you have to wade through forums, sometimes obscure ones, to figure out what went wrong. Im used to doing that on Windows machines mostly by myself but it always seemed like more of a pain in my ass to fix Linux problems.

You do realise that the average user is usually incapable of fixing even the smallest Windows issue, right? Linux or Windows doesn't make much difference here.

It sounds more like you're complaining about losing all of the sunk cost in time learning how to fix Windows. I could be wrong (easily) but that's my take on it.

I see what you're saying overall, but OS X really isn't "locked down so that it's harder to use non-approved products." Sure, iTunes, Quicktime, and now the Mac Store are installed... all of these things are optional to use, and don't bug you if you don't (although the quicktime libraries are used by most other software for media playback, you can use VLC and other alternatives too, which don't rely on quicktime - and there are plenty of alternative music players). The only thing from that list I use on my

OEMs who don't ship stock windows media with windows-licenced PCs deserve to burn in hell; but it is hard to blame the PC OEMS, who all ship essentially undifferentiated product on extremely thin margins from trying to make a few bucks where the can(the comparatively competitive world of shitware vendors) to make up for the bucks that they can't make(intel, MS)... Particularly when, for the most part, they do have corporate lines that are unafflicted by the plague. Either you get the subsidized hardware, an

That's the thing - you're NOT paying for the Windows OS because the other bloatware from AOL, MSN, and so on is covering the cost. If you *were* paying for the OS, then instead of a $500 PC you'd be getting an $800 PC..... and at that point you might as well get a Mac.;-)

Personally I like the bloatware since it does subsidize my PC (my last one cost only $200), and it's easy to uninstall using the add/remove programs icon. Not a

Do you want to pay $400 instead of $350 for the same machine? No, well say hello to bloatware! It isn't that these guys just decided "Hey,lets raise our support costs and piss off our customers but make a little scratch out the gate" no, it WAS US that demanded it thanks to the "race to the bottom".

There are literally thousands of places online you can buy bloatware free computers, or you can stop by your local mom and pop shop and have a nice PC custom built to YOUR specs (just finishing up a nice $579 quad core for a customer here myself) but all of these will cost more than the bottom of the barrel HP or Dell, because the bloatware allows for lower prices by paying the OEM upfront to install crap. Last I head the profit margin on a low end Dell was something like $8, yet the bloatware netted $50, that is because the bloatware lowers the selling price thus letting Dell undercut everybody but the other giant OEMs. Of course I love it because people get pissed and bring it to me to clean it, thanks Dell!

And OT but when is/. gonna fix these ^%$&^$&^$ comment boxes? The other boxes were perfectly nice and worked well (except for idle) and now I have to wonder now that the comments are dropping all over the place that folks aren't getting fed up like I am in typing and squinting when we have giant screens. C'mon/. you can do better! Hell if you can't hire one of the real coders here and they'll be happy to do it right!

You don't have to reinstall from that media. I never use it when I have to "format" people's computers, for that very reason. It puts back all the shitware. Using their product key on the sticker, I do a proper install of Windows and drivers, and I fix them up with free alternatives to things they may have had. (e.g. burning software for their dvd writer that may have come from the OEM, or OpenOffice). When they get it, they have a sensible, non crippling Antivirus program (Antivir is the one I mostly use)

Yeah, he can just do what I've.. sorry, what we've all been doing since the 90s:

Do a fresh install.

Spend the $100 and get the Windows DVD if it bothers you that much and you have to have Windows, or install Ubuntu / Kubuntu. Your family is probably only using it for Facebook and email anyway, so you can add a dash of security by using an OS where you don't have to be admin all the time.

The licence key that came with your PC is still valid, so if you've got a friend with a Win7 DVD, copy it and use the key. Edit / remove ei.cfg to choose the correct version for your CD key and you're golden.

Shovelware (which is, I believe, the correct term for the bundled crapola; bloatware refers to programs that take up more room and memory as time goes by) will never go away because:

Thus, fuck you.*This number was totally pulled out of my ass but I would guess that it is n x $200 where n is any large number.

Also, I have to ask why you're buying a branded machine anyway when you can get more power and a longer lasting machine for less money. I guess you have to with a laptop form factor, but that's really the only reason to not just pick up the parts and put the damned thing together yourself. And I'm saying this as a Canadian where I can't use the super-cheap deals you can get in the States.

The licence key that came with your PC is still valid, so if you've got a friend with a Win7 DVD, copy it and use the key. Edit / remove ei.cfg to choose the correct version for your CD key and you're golden.

Actually, Microsoft makes the Windows 7 DVD images available for download [mydigitallife.info] as part of Technet. Burn it to a DVD (or mount it with VMWare/VirtualBox) and you're good to go. You still need a valid key to activate though.

Also, I have to ask why you're buying a branded machine anyway when you can get more power and a longer lasting machine for less money. I guess you have to with a laptop form factor, but that's really the only reason to not just pick up the parts and put the damned thing together yourself.

Despite the bad rap Sony gets here, I rather like their solution to the problem. The Sony laptop I staged a few months ago shipped with the crapware installed. But the Restore DVD gives you two options - a total restore (Windows + drivers + crapware), or a minimal restore (Windows + drivers) with an option to pick and choose which extra apps to install. I did the minimal restore first thing after getting the laptop, and it yielded a clean fully functional system with all drivers working, and no crapware. Seems not everyone at Sony is evil.

Most people I've talked to about computers are well aware that you can build your own PCs from scratch. The problem is that the "whopping majority" doesn't know how to do it. There are other options as well, such as having a knowledgeable friend help you to build one, buy a custom-made one from a local PC shop, buy a used computer from someone nearby that didn't come with bloatware or doesn't currently have it, or just uninstall the bloat when you buy the new computer that you want. It doesn't exactly requi

Linux was to me, the smart bomb for all that bloatware. It serves more than one purpose, however. Eliminating Microsoft software also reduces the chance that web developers will be enticed to program their site just for Windows. By using Chrome or Firefox on Linux, I'm "voting" for software freedom - freedom to use the software I want, and freedom from bloatware.

This in turn will make Windows server software seem less appealing to those same programmers and their supervisors and the investors in the company. That could mean one less hideously expensive sale for Microsoft.

Before I blew away the partitions on the drive, I made the install DVDs in the event that I would ever need them again for someone who really wants to use Windows if I ever give the machine away or sell it. But in my hands, this machine isn't going to run Windows. See? I believe in freedom of choice.

I'm being a bit idealist here, I know. But I can dream a little, can't I?

Windows Servers have no bearing on what clients you can use to access them. An ASP.NET website can just as easily be accessed using Firefox on Ubuntu as IE on Windows. In fact, it's all built to spit out valid XHTML and CSS, and uses jQuery nowadays rather than some proprietary library. And you can just as easily access Exchange with Thunderbird or Pine.

It's ironic that people demand cheap, disposable $499 laptops yet complain that they're filled with junk. When Google pays a manufacturer $1 per every 3000 searches for setting Google as the default search engine, or Yahoo a similar deal, you're going to find such junk on PC's to help offset the cost of providing a low cost PC. It's also unfortunate that Microsoft changed their OEM distribution method of Microsoft Office, since 2007, so every manufacturer has to preload it, bloating the size of the images a

More importantly: Because the whitebox x86 market is a knife-fight-in-a-telephone booth.

On the plus side, this means that you can get more computrons for your dollar than at just about any point in history, at any given moment. On the minus side, it means that what you buy will reflect the consequences of ruthless cost cutting(and bloatware is, in essence, a form of cost cutting...)

Trouble is, as much as consumers hate bloatware, they'll chose the cheapest box on the shelf time and again. Ye olde laws

It's not just "get paid a fortune..." Every bit of space is advertising and real estate to be sold. Some of it is to instill name recognition. Does the average end user really care that the CPU is Intel or AMD? Nope. Do they care if it has a nVidia or ATI video card? Not really. They care about the price tag, and does it show web pages. If you ask your average consumer what they use their computer for, they'll tell you they check their email, and look at web pages.

Although the OP seems to get a good flaming, it has a point, as not everyone is a Slashdot geek. And it just means that those of us who *are* Slashdot geeks get tasked by neighbours/acquaintances/co-workers-outside-of work-time to remove all the dodgy resource hogs, Norton Virus etc (and horrible floaty UI bullshit in the case of Toshiba laptops). Great if that's how you earn your living but a pain when you move on from it.

It's free, and I don't need a FULL version of office. It works great. I don't know why you have to apply the hate to Works. It does a passable job for what it is intended to do. Most of the bloat, doesn't. I tried to use Google Docs, but found my connection at school wasn't reliable enough. So, Works + Dropbox lets me have access to my notes everywhere, and backs them up on the fly.

The problem is that PC makers have pursued the lowest common denominator so long that their very slim profit margins probably only exist because of the third party software. I look at the price of some of the systems out there, and I can only assume that without 30-day Office 2010 trial editions and all the other crap they'd probably be in the hole.

Eh. Buy the business versions of computers instead. They're comparable in price to their home equivalents, and lack the trialware.

I still remember when I got my first computer though. There were some demos preinstalled, but there were also full versions of software as well on CDs - a few games, Encarta, etc. Plus, it came with a thick book with detailed technical descriptions of the computer (keep in mind this was a "home user" system) that was comparable to a textbook. Good stuff.

Eh. Buy the business versions of computers instead. They're comparable in price to their home equivalents, and lack the trialware.

I still remember when I got my first computer though. There were some demos preinstalled, but there were also full versions of software as well on CDs - a few games, Encarta, etc. Plus, it came with a thick book with detailed technical descriptions of the computer (keep in mind this was a "home user" system) that was comparable to a textbook. Good stuff.

That requires informed consumers. What about all the people that "just need a computer" so they can go on Facebook or whatever? Although they aren't savvy enough to know they should get the business PC, they still hate how slow their new computer is, and it upsets them.

Sure, slashdot users know how to get around the bloatware, but the article is talking about getting rid of it for everyone, for the sake of the PC industry. And its a worthy suggestion I think.

Yup, I had an original IBM PC and one of the coolest things was the manual came with the complete schematics and source code of the BIOS in the manual. I even used them to track down and replace a chip on the board. I am sure that helped jumpstart the early PC clone market:).

My first computer (a Sinclair ZX81), came with all kinds of neat stuff like port diagrams and information about how the CPU works IIRC.
You'd never catch someone like Apple doing that these days, which is a bit sad really.

I'm 57 and I remember when documentation included the source code of the OS and schematics. None of the 'restore CD' nonsense. We had to type the damned stuff in. Tech support? That's what your soldering iron was for.

But it's late and the nurse tells me it's time for my afternoon meds so I don't get all crochety and weird. But, if you don't mind - get off my lawn.

I actually remember those days as well. More to the point, I had forgotten them long ago. Last time I got an HP box I uninstalled just about everything that wasn't absolutely positively necessary for the damn thing to work.

When I was a kid, we had an XT made by AT&T. It included a hefty set of manuals, on heavy stock, in 3-ring binders, with 5-sided boxes to keep them tidy on the shelf. There was an MS-DOS manual, a GW-BASIC manual, and a system manual -- the latter of which I never tore into much -- and maybe another book, too. (It's been a long time.)

It wasn't anything as voluminous as the set of VMS manuals that a girl I dated later had on her bookshelf, but it was plenty to keep my 8- or 9-year-old brain occupied a

Well, they could install it by default, but give the end user the ability to not install it in the future. Which is a pretty reasonable compromise, people that don't want it could just put the install CD in immediately and never have to worry about it. The main problem I have with it is that they would make it impossible to install the OS again without including the bloatware or going to ridiculous extremes to avoid it. If you're reinstalling the OS and you're opting not to install the bloatware, I think th

Bloatware is generally on a computer to help subsidize the cost down to "commodity item" prices. Removing the bloatware will increase the price of a computer. As the majority of people would prefer a cheap computer (with bloatware) over one with no bloatware, this is something unlikely to change.

That aside, and possibly also related to this, bloatware of certain categories helps fund the support marketplace. Most notably are things like trial antivirus software, that numerous computer purchasers let the trial expire and no longer receive definition updates, putting them at risk of malware infections. I've had a lot of customers come in with infected machines and tell me "but I had CrappyTrial 2011 installed" - at which point I find that the trialware subscription service expired 3 months ago. As sad as it is, I know it helps our business gain tech work. And I am sure it helps the big box places as well.

Other options include having a machine custom built - which of course will mean paying more, since there are generally no bloatware subsidies. At least on a PC, it's pretty easy to remove the bloatware.

Some of the cheapest machines come without any OS at all. It's also pretty easy to beat name brand OEMs with quasi-DIY sellers on the web.So the idea that all machines need to be subsidized through shovelware and bloatware is a little absurd.

The OS itself plays a large part in this.

Some stuff is just bloated by itself even if you install it off of OEM disks without adding any other nonsense.

But are pieces of crap I would not wish on my worst enemy. Virtually NO Windows machine built by any decent sized OEM comes without bloatware.

It's also pretty easy to beat name brand OEMs with quasi-DIY sellers on the web.

As I suggested. Though I beg to differ on the pricing - except, as noted, when one buys an el-crappo machine. I can build one for $200 - but it will barely run Windows 7 and decent sized apps like Office 2010 and say... Quickbooks 2010 at the same time.;-)

So the idea that all machines need to be subsidized through shovelware and bloatware is a little absurd.

The OS itself plays a large part in this.

Some stuff is just bloated by itself even if you install it off of OEM disks without adding any other nonsense.

Because the OEM disks often include the bloatware slipstreamed into them. One notable exception, back in the day,

Apart from the obvious reasons, one of the things that vendors should take seriously is the initial impression a bloated system has on their reputation. Joe Average is going to get a bitter taste in their mouth when that fancy new laptop is bugged down with crap.

What they should really do is have a Startup menu on first boot that shows a list of special deals & promotions with quick and easy download links for popular free and commercial software and/or have the installation files on the drive that one

vendors should take seriously is the initial impression a bloated system has on their reputation

OK, upwards of 30 years past the beginning of the "microcomputer revolution," vendors are supposed to become aware of "the initial impression a bloated system has on their reputation?" What for? Who cares? What consumer gives a crap? Most consumers may even be pleased they're getting something for nothing, or the appearance of it anyway. Not being able to deal with bloatware is grounds for exclusion even from

The vendor, at least, gets paid, and all their competitors are doing the same thing; but Microsoft doesn't see the cash, and the bloatware makes them look pathetic next to OSX, even in areas where they don't deserve it.

What are you talking about? I mentioned that they use it to check facebook, I never wrote that it was a bad thing to do. Maybe you should ask yourself why you thought it was bad to use a computer to check facebook?

We get paid by the vendor to put it there, so that's money to us regardless of the price you pay for the machine. You'll buy the machine regardless of what we put on the desktop, so there is no economic reason to remove it.

You can remove it yourself using the normal software uninstallation process. You can remove the entire operating system if you like. People with opinions like yours have been doing that for decades, now, to put alternative operating systems on the machines. How did that affect our sales? It didn't. So don't expect it to now.

The only thing that could make us change our ways is if it actually starts costing us money, and since boot time is your time, not ours, it doesn't cost us a thing.

The economic reason is Apple (and soon, linux. This is the year of the linux desktop, right?) I have lost count of how many people have talked about how much better apple is than windows and faster etc. (I don't want to get into a flame war about which is actually better, for my purposes here lets just say they are within range of each other; both w/ strengths and weaknesses.)

I used to wonder why I never ran into any of the problems 'everybody' has w/ windows. I always blew away everything and laid down

Consumers hate bloatware. They also like getting computers for less than the price of the parts that go into it.

Companies don't change their policies because of letters, open or otherwise. Companies change their policies when they see consumers buying something else. Sometimes that "something else" is a lower price. Sometimes that "something else" is a nicer set of features, which might just include not having bloatware.

As long as the OEMs are being paid to include bloatware, they'll be able to score that lower price point. The bloatware may aggravate, but it's not driving the customers away fast enough to make it go away, either.

It's much like web sites. You're getting something cheap because you're looking at ads. You don't like it, go elsewhere.

The first thing I do with a new PC is blow the HDD and rebuild. Yeah, all this bloatware is inconvenient for my parents and relatives (and thus me), but even that is only occasionally bothersome. I fail to see why the majority of the/. users should trouble themselves with this.

The first thing I do with a new PC is blow the HDD and rebuild. Yeah, all this bloatware is inconvenient for my parents and relatives (and thus me), but even that is only occasionally bothersome. I fail to see why the majority of the/. users should trouble themselves with this.

The article isn't talking about doing this for the sake of Slashdot users, its talking about doing it to keep Joe Consumer happy, which is for the sake of the PC industry. Which is indirectly for the sake of the Slashdot user. Also, it means slashdot users don't have to fix our parents computers as soon as they buy them.

Honestly people hate how slow their computers are, and there will be plenty of people who leave PCs for Macs for just this reason, I bet.

The companies that put that bloatware on your machine pay to get it there. Without these deals, the manufactures and retailers will now be selling each machine for less profit, and who do you think they'll be passing the "cost" on to?

On the other hand, feel free to buy a Linux or OS X machine. I can't remember hearing about "bloatware" for those.

Lots of 'Get Linux' or 'Get OS X' responses. But Windows doesn't mean that you have to have bloatware. Build your computer yourself, buy from a manufacturer that doens't include bloatware (you'll be supporting small business to boot!), or buy the cheap big brand computer and wipe the drive/reinstall the OS.

I usually don't refer to something as "bloatware" if it comes preinstalled. That's one thing. It's quite another for preinstalled software to automatically start running crap in the background when you boot. THAT is what I consider bloatware, but connotative and denotative and all that. If the software doesn't start pissing away CPU time once the OS fires up, then it's pretty unobtrusive.

You know the old saying. Never judge a book by its cover. While the website sucks, the program is quite nice in fact.

I've never used the commercial version, but I think you can script it for mass PC replacement across the network. But generally if you're a fortune 500 company, your desktop/laptops would be shipped with a corporate image anyways. However, ghosting machines or even going so far as to use a MS Windows sysprep process doesn't work well half the time. Mainly, because newer hardware contains thin

They not only add the bloat, they do what they can to prevent the crap from being removed.

Just yesterday I helped a cousin reinstall Win7 on a near-new Sony Vaio after their utilities decided to "helpfully" blow away the whole system including all data (fortunately, nothing vital was lost). I admit I have very little experience with Windows these days, but hunting down the needed drivers from Sony's website shouldn't take four freaking hours for someone doing IT for 25 years. They assume their recovery partition is the be-all and end-all and can never be wrong -- or perhaps, they are afraid someone may want to get rid of their precious crapware.

What tics me off about the post office is that the government can mandate a do not call list and institute the can-spam act to keep businesses from harassing me, but then they won't play by the same rules. The 5-10 lbs of junk mail I get a week requires FAR more effort for me to deal with than filtering e-mails or hanging up on telemarketers. Especially since they don't require envelopes and everything is just one big mess. Sometimes I even miss legitimate bills because they get lost in all the junk. At lea

Just shop at a Microsoft store (online or at retail). The PCs they sell are part of their "Signature" program whereby they remove all crap/bloatware and optimize the Windows install to run its best on that hardware.

Of course it's a bit more expensive, but it looks like it's worth it for the performance improvements and lack of hassle that you get.

They remove the bloat, don't allow trials because they piss off the user, set up one anti-virus that doesn't need a subscription, will sort out your iTunes if you ask, make sure all of the codecs are installed out of the box, and get rid of duplicate applications that do basically the same thing. They make things "just work."

In other words, they've reinvented the old school computer store. I give them a year or two before somebody 'improves' the experience. Before that, I'm going to look at what they're sel

I can vouch for this. Signature isn't exactly a vanilla install (Microsoft wants you to have the OEM drivers and some software) but it gives you no bullshit, Live Essentials, and Security Essentials, arguably the best AV program on Windows.

If you're suggesting a friend buy a laptop or, don't want to deal with PC Decrapifier, I highly recommend it.

Mr. Willington's fevered rantings. In fact please put MORE bloatware on new computers! You see, I'm a computer consultant, and derive a significant sum of money each time a neighbor/friend/referral asks me how to remove your products from his new computer. Since your software causes considerable delay at each bootup if left untouched, they are amazed at how it responds when I am through, and are very eager and grateful to pay my fees! If you could perhaps slip in a few easy-to-clean viruses or computer

I can understand where he's coming from, but wouldn't Firefox, Open Office, etc also count as "bloatware" under this definition? I don't know about anyone else, but I often find that a bare operating system isn't really all that useful. If it were, then we'd still be using MS DOS 5.0 or BSD 4.4-lite/System V UNIX. I like the idea of having a few essential utilities (SiSoft Sandra, 7zip, Lavasoft AdAware), applications (Mozilla Firefox), and eye candy (extra fonts and desktop backgrounds) preinstalled on

Don't blame the computer assembly company....blame the actual authors of the code. Put up a hall of shame and make sure that you are very specific about which tool sucks and why it sucks. And what personal problems the authors must have to create such monstrosities. If its phoning home, clearly document what its doing.When the refrain becomes "XYZ company sucks because this POS stuff they load on computers does this...", then they will fix their code. If your computer boots 15seconds faster witho

The solution seems pretty simple. If you still wish to include loads upon loads of third-party software, stick it all on a thumb drive and include it with every new machine. Problem solved.

This is about as naive a solution as I've seen suggested on Slashdot in a long time. How did this story even get accepted? The suggested solution is to reduce the effectiveness of the advertising, thus reducing the amount of money the PC manufacturers can charge to the advertisers, and increase the cost of the delivered product by requiring an additional bit of hardware to be included that would also require a coordinated documentation for installation instructions and training for customer service.

Right. That there is a top quality suggestion by someone who is savvy and experienced in the ways of the world.

The crapware is there because the crapware authors pay Dell/HP/et. al. to put it there, subsidizing your low hardware prices. Smart people don't bother booting the default config and just throw an install disk in the drive from the get-go.

If you don't have an install disk and only "restore" disks, you're on your own. Disabling bloatware isn't generally hard.

Microsoft tried this over ten years ago... Do people have no sense of history when it comes to computers?

Go look up the monopoly case against Microsoft, a large portion of the case was Microsoft's restrictions on OEMs on what modifications could be made to the OS. Microsoft supported bootup customizations (logos, support info, etc.) but the line was drawn in the sand when Microsoft started requesting 3rd party applications to be something that the OEM did not load and instead the user could optionally install them.

OEMs didn't want to lose this gravy the installed application money they received, and is why there was no lawsuit against Corel/Wordperfect for having the same contract that required the OEM to put Wordpefect Office on all systems sold, yet there was a lawsuit against Microsoft for the same contracts for both Windows and Microsoft Office.

(OEMs only got a better deal of about $5 per copy off of Windows if they included Windows with every system sold, and the greedy OEMs that went along with this, were also the ones that later on were in court testifying against Microsoft for offering them 'cheaper' deal that they willingly took. Smart OEMs paid the extra $5 for OEM copies of Windows and didn't have to bundle Windows with each computer sold.)

Anyway, this won't happen soon, as the money the OEMs make far out weighs the poor image of the crap that gets loaded on their computers creates about their computers.

Microsoft is stilly trying to get OEMs to reduce or make the 'optional' software a user initiated installation, and has even created an installation platform for OEMs and 3rd party software to use so that people get a true Windows experience on first boot, and can add all the crap they want that the OEM gets a kick back for by installing or using the software which initiates the install. (Microsoft's own software even uses this with Office and even Live Essentials which was formerly OS applications are optional installs for users.)

However, getting OEMs to stop taking 'bribe' money for loading crap, dream on... And with the Monopoly ruling against Microsoft, Microsoft no longer has any authority or say in how Windows is deployed. (Go read up on the lawsuit, why it really was a scam, and even people like the former CEO of Netscape later admitted it was a bad ruling, that he had previously testified and supported until he got to see the money and intent behind the ruling that came from the USA and the EU out of it.)

While the parent is flamebait, it does present an interesting point: if PC makers are so hard-up for cash that they will install anything with a bribe, why does Apple continue to do so well despite the fact that they don't engage in pay-to-play bloatware?

Sure, a Mac costs a bit more than a Windows box. But not substantially more.

Because they aren't competing with other manufacturers of Macs. Remember what happened back when they were? The point is that Apple is competing essentially with not Apple and they can make a lot more money by charging enough to make a profit without bloatware.

Assuming you can. I know that Sony used to include recovery discs which basically just placed the original image back on the disk. I think the only significant change you could make is that it allowed you to choose a partition to install it on. But other than that all the original bloatware was back, and every bit as buggy as the last time I installed.

Outside of Very Small business, not much time at all. System imaging tools and hardware homogeneity are your friend.

For sheer network throughput reasons(plus all the domain-join dicking around), a bare metal restore might take about an hour; but only a few minutes are human attended time. Dump the sucker on the network -> F12 -> PXE boot -> new machine pops up in management console -> scripted process does a WMI query to determine model and then dumps a suitable image on the sucker....

Unfortunately, it seems that it's like that for all consumer-level printers (read: ink jets and inkjet all-in-one units in the $200 price range).

My solution to that was to buy a laser printer. It's a Brother 2170, and it sold for around $100 last year. They have some fancy software for it to tell you when the toner level runs low... or just the driver. You actually get the option to install just the driver. And the best part - it's basically just a.inf and.sys file. That's it!