Monday, November 06, 2006

College Poll Mania

(1) That the presumption that Ohio St. can/will roll over whoever plays them in the national-title game is premature. Just ask Illinois.

(2) That Michigan is No. 2 by default.

(3) That Louisville took over the title of "best win of the season," but some voters still don't care. (Best win? Yes: They beat the No. 3 team in the country. They dethrone Ohio St., which -- as we now know -- beat the No. 4 team. I don't care what Texas' ranking was back then; the most recent ranking should take precedence to evaluate how good a win at the time actually was. That's why Florida's wins over Georgia and Alabama don't mean jack today, even though before the season, it seemed like those two would count as "quality" wins. It turns out they were quality wins -- for Kentucky and Mississippi St, but not so much for Florida.)

(4) That the SEC would be better off seceding from the BCS cabal and simply saying it will take on the winner of the BCS title game after the season is over, if the BCS champ has the guts to do it.

In my latest BlogPoll ballot, I have the Top 5 this way:1. Ohio St.2. Louisville3. Michigan4. Texas5. Arkansas

Here's the only point that matters about the inevitable complaints from Michigan fans: Why do you even care? You have the exclusive opportunity to simply play-in to the national title game. Who cares where you're ranked in Week 11? Louisville and fans of the one-loss SEC champ have way more lobbying to do. Are Michigan fans so sure they're going to lose to Ohio St that they are already lobbying to keep their spot at No. 2 after they lose to OSU? If not, then why gripe about a No. 3 ranking the Monday after your team barely eked out a win over Ball State?

College Basketball: I have one simple question for the AP voters: Who were the 9 fools who voted UNC No. 1 over Florida, and how in the world do they justify it? Do they really believe that a defending champ returning all five starters plus both key reserves should be ranked behind a UNC team that has to integrate a batch of new freshmen? I don't care how talented they are, and I don't even care if Florida doesn't end up winning the national title. How do they not present the body of evidence necessary to give them, at a minimum, your preseason vote for No. 1? What body of work from UNC -- given that the talented freshman class doesn't even have one at the college level -- can those voters offer to explain their vote?

Comments Question: As it seems that I'm not accepting any answers for "Who is the preseason No. 1?" besides Florida, who would be your choices for the teams that have a shot at dethroning the Gators and why? Aside from the stock answer "In the NCAA tournament, anything can happen in a single game," what teams have the qualities necessary to beat Florida?

you are up in arms about florida not being the unanimous #1 in CBB, after telling michigan fans to calm down about their spot in the polls.

are you just running out of ways to create buzz on the page or are you actually that insane about the gators?

would you rather have florida be #1 in a meaningless poll for the next 5 months and then lose in the sweet 16?

as for teams that could beat florida, who knows. these are college kids, not NBA players. You have a long time until march, injuries, academics, and their boyfriends dumping them could impact the team through winter and spring...and you need to remember that no one cares about college basketball until march anyway.

Rutgers / Wisco too high, Florida too low. Don't care about the top 3 as that will shake out in the next 2 wks. ND doesn't even need to be in the ladder. Weis cries about the BCS and yet the computers of the BCS are the only thing making ND relevant anymore this season. If it were the "old school" method he craves so dearly, ND would be 10th and accepting an invite to the Gator Bowl.

You think Hawaii gets sick of playing their bowl game at home every year? I think those kids would love to get to the mainland for a week or two and play in weather other than 85 and sunny.

thought about that chrth, but Greg is out until late Feb. I worry about the team having chemistry/knowing how to play w/him come tourney time. Matta is great and I hope Oden is a man of his word and stays for his degree (yeah right, i'd take the money and so should he).

Dan complains about nine voters not putting Florida number one, and we all decide to continue debating college football. I think the masses have spoken: It's not March, who gives a rat's ass about college basketball?

UNC gets special treatment in CBB just like ND does in football. (As does KU).

I was really looking foward to the KU-FL game on Nov 25th. It should still be a great game but KU will be thin up front with Kahn hurt and Giles' status on the team up in the air. They're solid, not fantastic, and would be some big bodies for FL to deal with.

As for the whole Mich-OSU thing... I don't care. My bet is neither wins the BCS title. Both Mich and OSU played like crap this weekend. In fact I think OSU should be more embarrassed about their performance against Illinios than Miching should be.

Why is that? Is Notre Dame so dominant that it's that inconceivable for someone to beat them at home. Ohio St. winning at Texas is a bigger win. (and could be backed up by Dan's theory since Texas is #4 now). Hell, Louisville's win over WV is bigger. I certainly believe WV would roll over ND and their obviously weak defense.

If Michigan fans shouldn't care about their ranking, and I agree they shouldn't, why should you care about a preseason ranking that's even more meaningless.

And by the way, Florida is #1!!!

Anyways, I think college basketball is going to have a Carmelo part II considering all the freshmen coming in this year. UNC, GT, and Texas have multiple McDonalds kids capable of pulling it off.

But here's my team thats going to knock off Forida:

George Washington!!!

Why not? After George Mason's run last year, I'm gonna pick a mid-major to do the impossible...and before you bash my pick just remember that it's just as absurd as picking George Mason to go to the Final Four.

Or I can just wait until one friggin game is played before making my champion pick.

WVU might be able to score against ND but I'm pretty sure Quinn would put up about 45-50 on WVU.

When can we stop talking about WVU - they got rocked by Lville in an ugly game and still have yet to beat anyone (or play anyone) of any talent.

The ND bias goes both ways...they get a ton of positive hype going into the season which helps with their initial rankings, but they have to play flawlessly to get any positive media after that (see UCLA, Michigan State and even their drubbing of UNC this weekend). They played the toughest schedule for the first six weeks of the season (not opinion, actual rankings) and now fall into their easy four game stretch before going TO USC and everyone is whining that they play an easy schedule and they can't win by ten touchdowns so they obviously are terrible. They aren't the best team but they deserve to be in the talks of the top ten because they actual play a tough schedule and win.

Forget what everyone's saying dan, I'm way excited for CBB. Yes, I agree, how can you not rank FL #1, and I also agree that UNC and KU get special treatment (esp the last few years with KU, obviously we haven't been great). But, i think this is the year we can and will knock off everyone to make it to the final four. I guarantee we will not go out in the first round (as long as we don't play Bradley or Bucknell!)

Those who don't want to rank the Gators number 1 in CBB, go ahead, disrespect the Gators again. It seemed to work last year. Florida meets Kansas and Ohio State the 1st 2 months of the season, we'll see if either team is on par or as good.

As for CFB polls, Michigan fans, what does it matter? You beat Ohio State you're number 1.

Anyone who can tell me with a blank stare that the SEC isn't hard is crazy. Yes, I think the Big 10 is also a very tough conference, but you have 3 teams in the Big 10 that have a legit shot at making a BCS game (Ohio State, Michigan, Wisconsin)...The SEC has 5 (Arkansas, Florida, Tennessee, LSU, Auburn). We might not have the 2 two teams in the country, and we might have some pretty doo doo teams at the bottom (Miss State, Ole Miss) but it is top to bottom the hardest league in the country. Name another conference where a school that has regularly won 10 games a year over 4 seasons would drop so badly because of ONE off recruiting year? (ask UGA what it's like)

I think it has a little bit to do with it, but UGA is without a QB, without a great secondary, all stems back to an off year of recruiting, where a lot of the guys they did get in 2003 are no longer on the team.

If you think a program is in the decline because they lost 30-33 in a bowl game you are a fool...that is absurd. Georgia is losing because they are weak on defense and at the QB position not because of one game last year that they almost won. You have got to get off WVU's nuts.

They [WVU] beat the No. 3 team in the country. They dethrone Ohio St., which -- as we now know -- beat the No. 4 team. I don't care what Texas' ranking was back then; the most recent ranking should take precedence to evaluate how good a win at the time actually was.

Some people already commented on this Harvard-esque logic ... just wanted to point out the absurdity of it again.

OSU has the most impressive win - AT Texas. Then Michigan's win - AT Notre Dame. L'Ville won their game at home. Impressive nonetheless, but still - there's a difference.

Everyone needs to calm down about Louisville they are going to lose to Rutgers in NJ and then Rutgers will lose to WVU in WV eliminating the Big East from National Championship contention.

This is certainly what I am rooting for. I'd like to see FLA vs the winner of OSU/MICH.

Brace yourself, folks...but I wanted to give a shout-out to the crowd for creating so much noise on the last minute Ball State drive near our endzone. They got a procedure penalty due to the fact they couldn't hear the count, moving them back from the shadow of the goal line. That is why a loud crowd is so damn important. Now, don't get my started on just why the &^%$ we even needed crowd noise against Ball State...

Those 9 who didn't vote for Florida are just the smart ones who realized that the Gators winning last year was a fluke. Now stop crying over the preseason rankings and start wearing a little more purple and white.

In CFB there is only one thing that scares me right now...Texas possibly getting into the National title game. The loser of OSU-Mich. should be eliminated. If Louisville loses, and the SEC continues to beat each other up we might end up with the OSU-Texas national title game which would be nothing short of pathetic. People have argued about "The Big Least" all year, well, let's look at Texas's resume using Dan's logic of current standings. They've beaten ONE quality team in Oklahoma that somehow continues to squeak by each week. Not to mention they got taken out to the woodshed earlier this year by the same OSU team. Does anyone want to see that rematch other than the ultimate whiner Mack Brown? I think not. An undefeated Big East team or a one loss SEC champ is the most deserving. The Pac-10...well unless USC wins out (media darling that it is) there's no chance of that happening.

CBB: I just want to make one quick note about this. Florida is a scary team with all of it's returning players, but there's actually a team out west that scares me more because it hasn't lived up to it's potential yet. UCLA. We saw what Florida could do at it's peak, there's only one place to go from there as we all know. Are they going to make it easy for opponents? Hell no. But Seeing what a young UCLA was able to accomplish last season without the best shooter on it's team (Josh Shipp) scares the crap out of me now that he's healthy. It's going to be a helluva season.

If you think a program is in the decline because they lost 30-33 in a bowl game you are a fool...that is absurd. Georgia is losing because they are weak on defense and at the QB position not because of one game last year that they almost won. You have got to get off WVU's nuts.

that wouldn't have come into play if the refs hadn't given Ball State a fresh set of downs on a ludicrous facemask call. (That guy got rocked, but it was with regard to his knees and torso.) Plus, that would have been a weak PI at best.

By the way, thanks much, SportsCenter, for suggesting that the refs didn't call that because they were in The Big House - they had made a worse and similarly unpopular call 4 downs earlier to give Ball State another shot at it.

Seriously, Florida got hot for 6 games last year. That's all it was, a 6 game run...and dan, be careful because another team that made a late season run (see pittsburgh steelers) to win a championship, haven't fared so well this year.

Hey, I don't follow college football much (I'm a Syracuse fan, enough said).

But if Cal beats USC, aren't they at least as good as any SEC team (if they win the rest, then they only lost 1 game to an SEC team, like everyone else in the overhyped SEC)?

Looking at the Texas schedule, it isn't very strong, and btw, that's why the computers rank Mich, not OSU, at #1.

Anyone see the ads for the Big 10 channel? Does this mean they won't appear on network TV/ESPN?

College basketball is VERY unpredictable. I think Florida at #1 is a stretch as long as Billy Donovan is standing on the sidelines. They only seem to do well with low expectations, so I doubt that we'll see back to back banners for FLA BBALL.

You have to remember that Dan thinks Billy D. is the best coach ever in college B-Ball forget the past when Florida was always the team people picked to get beat in the 1st round. Donovan is a better coach than K, Roy Williams, Boeheim and Knight. I understand why he roots for the Gators but get off of their nuts please. Even in 1992 when Duke repeated they needed the greatest play in college basketball history to beat Kentucky. Florida should be the favorite to repeat but I don't think you should put that much stock into preseason b-ball polls. Unlike football they have a tourney to decide the champ. Dan I would quit your bitching until the beginning of April when we see who has won the national title.

Seriously, Florida got hot for 6 games last year. That's all it was, a 6 game run...and dan, be careful because another team that made a late season run (see pittsburgh steelers) to win a championship, haven't fared so well this year.

Lets just completely ignore the fact that they started 17-0, and the fact that their biggest loss last year was by 5.

The argument can be said that anyone who wins the whole thing only won because they got hot at the right time. Florida is a very good team, and while they might not repeat this year, they do have teh talent to do it.

Solomon - you should adhere to your sentiments that you do not know too much about college football. TN not only KILLED Cal, but also has two losses with possibly 1 or 2 more left within the conference. Pls never compare the SEC and Pac-10 again.

I must add a disclaimer, I'm a UNC student. That said, I'm convinced that Carolina is the most talented team in the country, not necessarily the best. I'll give the defending champs the benefit of the doubt though, no arguements from me there. As for the Heels, Terry is erratic at times but if he ever plays up to his potential teams need to watch out. Tyler is only going to get better with another year in the weight room and help with other bigs in the lineup. Our freshmen all look great but Lawson and Wright look like the real deal. I argee that UNC gets added exposure and hype due to our history but with a National Championship in 2005, an impressive returning group, and the number one recruiting class in the country according to some, I think our ranking is appropriate. We've got a long way to go and a lot of developing to do, but at the very least, don't doubt UNC. Florida's tops for now, can't argue that, I just wish Carolina and Florida played each other this year.

UNC and Florida had an agreement in principle to play this year, however, they could not agree on a neutral venue (Florida wanted Tampa, UNC wanted Charlotte) so they game never came to be. Shame, it would be one heck of a game.

1. Ohio State - Illinois?2. Michigan - Ball State???? with goal to go for the tie??? OSU and Michigan still the class of CFB though.3. L'Ville - I started to put Texas here but thier schedule prevents them, but the only "quality" team L'ville beat is a WVU team that had no business being #3 in the first place4. Texas - Only loss to Ohio State, and freshman QB McCoy, who BTW will probably set the freshman QB record for TD this season, didn't have his legs under him. He's looking better each game.5. Arkansas - SEC West Champion?6. Auburn 7. Florida - Arkansas had trouble w/Vany too8. Cal - who have they beaten, Oregon? (Who should have an extra loss)9. ND - Cupcakes until USC10. USC - will have at least one more loss.

I hate to be giving things away--and I could be way wrong--but I don't think Joakim Noah is our center. Also, I'm certain he's not the best player on the team. Although I don't think he's overrated--I just think Al Horford is the most criminally underrated player ever. He's my pre-season favorite for player of the year.

Tee Isenhour...It's nice to see that the only thing Tennessee is still hanging it's hat on is the fact that they beat Cal in week one. Keep neglecting the fact that the Cal team that showed up in week one bears NO resemblence to the team that has shown up since.

As much as I love the idea of the winner of Cal/USC going to the championship game if they run the table, it will never happen because as much as the computers love those two teams, the pollsters hate Cal. USC has a shot if they run the table, but the best Cal will do is a game against the OSU/Mich loser in the Rose Bowl. Although, I still enjoy the fact that Corso picked Cal to end up in the national title game before the season started.

It's not that they don't count; it's just that emphasis should not be placed on margin of victory. If the margin of victory is what you're pushing, then the earlier the game, the less credence it deserves.

If Cal and Tenn finish with the same record (or OSU/Texas), then by all means the head-to-head should be the deciding factor. But trying to make up a loss by citing margin of victory doesn't really work. Cal with 1 loss is more worthy than Tenn with 2 losses, regardless of how badly Tenn beat Cal in Week 1.

Love all the people who think the Florida national championship was a fluke, or a team getting hot for six games, or whatever. Yeah, ok. Next you are going to tell me they lucked out by not playing UConn or Duke. Whatever helps you sleep at night.

UF had THREE projected lottery picks last year, and they all came back for this year. I'm not picking the repeat, only because I know how difficult it is, but damn, UF's championship was no less fluky than most teams who win it all.

That Louisville took over the title of "best win of the season," but some voters still don't care. (Best win? Yes: They beat the No. 3 team in the country. They dethrone Ohio St., which -- as we now know -- beat the No. 4 team. I don't care what Texas' ranking was back then; the most recent ranking should take precedence to evaluate how good a win at the time actually was.So if we use the most recent ranking, Ohio State beat #4 Texas on the road by 17 and Louisville beat #10 West Virginia at home by 10. Hmmm...maybe if we use rankings at the time of the game? Ohio State won at #2 Texas by 17, Louisville won at home vs. #3 West Virginia by 10. How is Louisville's win more impressive?

UM did not "barely eke out a win against Ball State" this weekend. Ball State had no chance of beating Michigan, even after the second team continued to give up long plays.

First of all, that terrifying "Ball State driving, down by 8" situation required BS to score two touchdowns against the first string D (the TD and the 2-point conversion), when they couldn't punch it in once in 7 consecutive plays from within the 10. Second of all, Ball State would have needed a stop and a score in overtime, which weren't gonna happen.

I can't believe the abuse you're throwing at a team that decided to rest its first string in the middle of 12 grueling consecutive weeks of football against a non-threatening team.

While I'm at it, I can't believe the SportsCenter guys - "What happened to Michigan's vaunted defense?"? Check the numbers on the jerseys of those DBs getting beat; the vaunted defense went to the sidelines for 2 quarters, is what happened.

Michigan is being punished because guys who will never play in a real game for Michigan turn out to be not very good and got burned by Ball State's WRs.

That, and because Dan doesn't know ANYTHING about football. Instead of seeing a game in which Louisville tackled like it was two-hand touch and would have got beat if it weren't for (not-very-good) WVU's ability to shoot themselves in the foot, he saw "OMG Louisville were able to get wide open (when WVU forgot to cover them) for HUUUUUGE plays."

If one watches UM v Notre Dame, UT v OSU, and then Louisville v West Virginia, it becomes painfully clear that the order of talent is somewhere along the lines of:

Okay,It got me thinking,Is this more of a weaker classes of heisman choices?

If Troy Smith is the leader, but why not consider Colt Brennan. Who you might say? Hello? Bueller? Bueller?

Look at stats,he is the real deal.

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/player/profile?playerId=145275

Sure,he does play for Hawaii,and he does play in the WAC.But,why not him?IMO, we know Hawaii likes to play a pass heavy spread offense making most of his stats. Most haven't heard of him on the east coast because of the time zone difference too.

Doesn't the award go to the best player? why not,with a weak heisman candidacy.

Take note that I have never ONCE said Cal should play for the title. Cal, IF they run the table deserves the Grandaddy of them all...the Rose Bowl. IF an SEC team finishes with one loss Cal can't make up that ground in the BCS. IF Louisville OR Rutgers finishes undefeated then they deserve the title game. Only AFTER that would I say the Pac-10 champ (be it Cal or USC) deserves the title shot. My comment was directed at someone who still is only basing Tennessee's legitimacy on their victory over Cal. Also, the team that Tennessee beat in week one is not the Cal team that has gone 8-0 since.

Gimme a break on the SEC. Not a good offense in the bunch.Doesn't matter who comes out of the SEC, Ohio State would pound them. Last year, Texas or USC would have pounded the SEC champ..so it goes. Having rabid fans and 9-6 football scores does not make the SEC a great conference.

My thoughts on the college Bball preseason poll: it doesn't matter. I see your beef about the voters picking another team besides UF, but maybe you've got nine guys being a bit contrariant (No, guys in the media being contrarian? Say it ain't so...).

But here's the thing, for one, chances are, UF doesn't win back-to-back. I think it's tough to win back-to-back in any sport, but in college basketball its the hardest of all, because too many fluky things can happen in the tourney. So if voters are thinking, 'maybe I should pick another team', they come up with UNC.

Another guess is, a lot of guys who are ACC beat guys think, at the beginning of the year, that the best projected team in the ACC (usually UNC or Duke) will be the best team in the country. And it's not too hard to follow their logic, since it is the best conference in the country for Bball (and I am a very biased Big East homer), and history tells us the ACC will win the tourney more often, on a percentage basis, than the best teams of other conferences (discounting the Wooden run, obviously, which skews all percentages to the Pac10).

So I don't know who the best team in the country is, but I'd definitely take the field against UF, and since most of us aren't UF fans, we don't have a problem with 9 guys picking UNC to be the best team in the country before they have so much played a game.

I keep waiting for a small band of schools to try pulling out from the NCAA due to the abuse and corruption that the NCAA has fallen under, form their own conference, play their own games, pay their players a modest salary that covers college living expenses, and get their own TV deal with a cable network.

Having rabid fans and 9-6 football scores does not make the SEC a great conference.

Bingo! They might be the best this year by a small margin but stop pretending they are the be all end all to college football. A whole lot of mediocre, one-demensional offenses make all those defenses look a lot better.

Gimme a break on the SEC. Not a good offense in the bunch.Doesn't matter who comes out of the SEC, Ohio State would pound them. Last year, Texas or USC would have pounded the SEC champ..so it goes. Having rabid fans and 9-6 football scores does not make the SEC a great conference

So...

The 35 points Tennessee put on Cal this year

The 40+ LSU put on Arizona

The 33 Auburn put on Wazzou

The 34 Florida put on FSU last year

The 40 LSU put on Miami last year

The 31 Florida put on Iowa last year

Show that the SEC cannot score? The SEC can put up numbers, don't you worry. Would Texas and USC have pounded the SEC champ? Maybe, and there are some bad offenses (UGA) but the SEC is the dominant conference in the country with the Big 10 a close second.

I don't understand the Tenn-Cal argument. If margin of victory really mattered, then the Colts would be 5 time Super Bowl Champions, right? Why do we change our rules for college football? Why would we weight the first game of the season so much, especially on the road?

I don't know if you can actually use the term "dominant" to describe a conference. The SEC is not actively dominating anyone or anything, except their own NC chances by playing each other tough and not folding up for the alpha team (Here's looking at you, Big XII....).

Bowl season is the only time teams get to prove that the elite of their conference is better than that of other conferences. So maybe we'll see if anybody dominates then. Eh?

And king solomon - I know you're supposed to be wise and everything, but -- is Oregon State U as good as any SEC team?Why would the same accomplishment grant Cal that claim?

Dan, you pose the question to Michigan football fans about our ranking, "Why do we even care?"... Well, I pose the same question to you about the CBB PRESEASON poll. Why do you even care? It's a preseason poll for christ's sake - if your team proves it on the court, then you have nothing to worry about - same as Michigan Football. Not to mention, the polls mean nothing in college basketball when it comes to crowning a national champion.

Why not Colt McCoy for the Heisman? He's got a better QB rating than Troy Smith or Brady Quinn, he's brought his team from way behind, and don't forget he had to face the daunting Ohio State defense in his first game action.

John from Ann Arbor, I have to call horsesh*t on that "bogus facemask" assessment. The guy grabbed Nate Davis's helmet and yanked him down with it. The rulebook says that's a penalty.

And maybe it would've been a "weak" PI, but rules are rules, and that guy hit Dante Love well before the ball got there. You can say it was uncatchable but I have no faith that those refs were going to throw the flag even if it had been right on the money.

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