I would love to see kos-mos as well, problem is pacman is too iconic and would fit in well with the new colorful atmosphere. I don't see it happening, Lloyd is a stretch as well.

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I have many dreads about what pac-mans inclusion will lead to, namely his appearance in SFxT. I think Kos-mos being a sort of a bond between the companies working together would be an excellent choice, especially since the company that created the character is now owned by nintendo. Let's hope takahashi requests it from sakurai in the same way Kojima requested Snake

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Agreed, although I'm not getting my hopes up. And yes soon we'll probably see that kirby wannabe in a odd mech Tron-bonnesque like thing lol. If he's without the suit and just punches with those boxing glove hands, then little Mac chances are gone IMO.

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Wow, you guys obviously know nothing about Pac-man. "Kirby wannabe"... da hell? Pac-man came out WAY before Kirby. "odd mech Tron-bonnesque thing" Does the Megaman in Smash look like Bad- Box to you. Nuff said. "If he's without the suit and just punches with those boxing glove hands" Wow, I don't even... if you seriously think all Pac-man does is punch... I don't even know what to say... play a Pac-man World game I guess. And I would hope any gamer should know Pac-man's trademark is EATING and BITING, I mean come on!

Also, for crying out loud I've already explained to you that KOS-MOS is completely owned by Namco. The Xenosaga and Xenogear series are both owned by Namco. The only Xeno games owned by Nintendo are Xenoblade and X. Also while I love KOS-MOS don't you think she might be a little... inappropiate.

The transition from the original Smash Bros to Melee kept the original 12 and just added to the roster. However the transition from Melee on the Gamecube to the Brawl on the Wii did not keep every character from the previous game. There were some removals and some replacements. This is bound to happen, or most likely would happen, going into the fourth game next year.

Here is the challenge this time:

From Melee to Brawl we lost Roy, Mewtwo, Pichu, Young Link, and Dr. Mario. Let's say there were the same amount of cuts/replacements from Brawl to SSB4, a TOTAL OF FIVE. Who do you think they should be? And why? Please give your reasons too.

Also, for crying out loud I've already explained to you that KOS-MOS is completely owned by Namco. The Xenosaga and Xenogear series are both owned by Namco. The only Xeno games owned by Nintendo are Xenoblade and X. Also while I love KOS-MOS don't you think she might be a little... inappropiate.

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Well xenogears i believe was owned by SE, since that was done while takahashi and his wife were at Square. Since Nintendo has according to wikipedia(which is why i've asked for a more reliable source on the matter since i cannot find one) bought out monolith completely(effectively moving takahashi and his wife under nintendos umbrella) and namco is assisting with the construction of the game, i thought it would at least be considered. There are multiple designs of Kos-mos, some of which are more lewd than others. They could just use one they deem appropriate or make a new one entirely. It's certainly not at Bayonetta levels.

The transition from the original Smash Bros to Melee kept the original 12 and just added to the roster. However the transition from Melee on the Gamecube to the Brawl on the Wii did not keep every character from the previous game. There were some removals and some replacements. This is bound to happen, or most likely would happen, going into the fourth game next year.

Here is the challenge this time:

From Melee to Brawl we lost Roy, Mewtwo, Pichu, Young Link, and Dr. Mario. Let's say there were the same amount of cuts/replacements from Brawl to SSB4, a TOTAL OF FIVE. Who do you think they should be? And why? Please give your reasons too.

I have mixed feelings about Mewtwo, I don't think its entirely necessary but it would be cool if present. Mewtwo was left off the roster and replaced with Lucario. So if Lucario is replaced by anyone, it should be mewtwo. They both have the same reasons to be in the game.

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This is a flawed statement

Nobody replaced Lucario, both were planned to be present together

Mewtwo replacing Lucario is exactly the problem. You're making the exact same mistake as last time, but just flipping it upside down. People are going to be just as mad about the removal of Lucario so what's the point? You're just replacing one mistake with another equally problematic mistake. You're not fixing anything.

They don't have the same reasons to be in. Lucario is a newer gen and heavily advertised and beloved Pokemon. Mewtwo is a classic legendary with 2 movies. He has his own backstory of his creation and is one of the most iconic Pokemon there is.

The transition from the original Smash Bros to Melee kept the original 12 and just added to the roster. However the transition from Melee on the Gamecube to the Brawl on the Wii did not keep every character from the previous game. There were some removals and some replacements. This is bound to happen, or most likely would happen, going into the fourth game next year.

Here is the challenge this time:

From Melee to Brawl we lost Roy, Mewtwo, Pichu, Young Link, and Dr. Mario. Let's say there were the same amount of cuts/replacements from Brawl to SSB4, a TOTAL OF FIVE. Who do you think they should be? And why? Please give your reasons too.

Also, for crying out loud I've already explained to you that KOS-MOS is completely owned by Namco. The Xenosaga and Xenogear series are both owned by Namco. The only Xeno games owned by Nintendo are Xenoblade and X. Also while I love KOS-MOS don't you think she might be a little... inappropiate.

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Well xenogears i believe was owned by SE, since that was done while takahashi and his wife were at Square. Since Nintendo has according to wikipedia(which is why i've asked for a more reliable source on the matter since i cannot find one) bought out monolith completely(effectively moving takahashi and his wife under nintendos umbrella) and namco is assisting with the construction of the game, i thought it would at least be considered. There are multiple designs of Kos-mos, some of which are more lewd than others. They could just use one they deem appropriate or make a new one entirely. It's certainly not at Bayonetta levels.

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Ugh, while Nintendo did in fact buy Monolith Soft, Namco themselves asked to keep the licensing to Xenogears and Xenosaga series (hence why KOS-MOS and other Xenosaga characters and locales are in Project X Zone even though it went into devlopment after Nintendo aquired the developer). There was an article on this a while ago. Even on Wikipedia if you click on the Xenogears and Xenosaga articles it shows that it is still in fact owned by Namco. So in a sense they aquired the DEVELOPER but not the games he previously did. Xenoblade is pretty much Nintendo's spiritual successor to Xenosagas especially after Takahashi said something similiarly along the lines where he "thought the saga was pretty much concluded". It would also be quite weird to pick KOS-MOS over Nintendo's own Shulk consdering the main Xenosaga series hasn't even been released on a Nintendo console.

I have mixed feelings about Mewtwo, I don't think its entirely necessary but it would be cool if present. Mewtwo was left off the roster and replaced with Lucario. So if Lucario is replaced by anyone, it should be mewtwo. They both have the same reasons to be in the game.

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This is a flawed statement

Nobody replaced Lucario, both were planned to be present together Since i did not have specific knowledge to the contrary that was my logical assumption and this was already addessed in another post.

Mewtwo replacing Lucario is exactly the problem. You're making the exact same mistake as last time, but just flipping it upside down. People are going to be just as mad about the removal of Lucario so what's the point? You're just replacing one mistake with another equally problematic mistake. You're not fixing anything. I'm not sugeesting it should happen, just saying if it did it would make sense to me.Please read all my posts before you reply to me.

They don't have the same reasons to be in. Lucario is a newer gen and heavily advertised and beloved Pokemon. Mewtwo is a classic legendary with 2 movies. He has his own backstory of his creation and is one of the most iconic Pokemon there is.They are both unique pokemon among their respective types, they both have a large fanbase, they both have been the star of movies, they both have been in smash already, i'm not saying they are identical, but a lot of the reasons for their inclusion overlap.

Pokemon and Mario having 6 slots is just way too much. 5 is a preferred number to prevent overrepresentation.

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THEN WHY ARE YOU MAKING SOME FUCKING AWFUL ROSTER CHOICES MAN? I MEAN NINTENDOG AND ANNA?!?

....being realistic here, the only 6 from Mario that should get in are the "new" Main 6 (Mario, Luigi, Peach, Toad, Bowser, and Junior). We have 4/6 of them currently and only one of them will make this one. Besides, Mario and Pokemon are the two most popular series from Nintendo.

Ugh, while Nintendo did in fact buy Monolith Soft, Namco themselves asked to keep the licensing to Xenogears and Xenosaga series (hence why KOS-MOS and other Xenosaga characters and locales are in Project X Zone even though it went into devlopment after Nintendo aquired the developer). There was an article on this a while ago. Even on Wikipedia if you click on the Xenogears and Xenosaga articles it shows that it is still in fact owned by Namco. So in a sense they aquired the DEVELOPER but not the games he previously did. Xenoblade is pretty much Nintendo's spiritual successor to Xenosagas especially after Takahashi said something similiarly along the lines where he "thought the saga was pretty much concluded". It would also be quite weird to pick KOS-MOS over Nintendo's own Shulk consdering the main Xenosaga series hasn't even been released on a Nintendo console.

Pokemon and Mario having 6 slots is just way too much. 5 is a preferred number to prevent overrepresentation.

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THEN WHY ARE YOU MAKING SOME FUCKING AWFUL ROSTER CHOICES MAN? I MEAN NINTENDOG AND ANNA?!?

....being realistic here, the only 6 from Mario that should get in are the "new" Main 6 (Mario, Luigi, Peach, Toad, Bowser, and Junior). We have 4/6 of them currently and only one of them will make this one. Besides, Mario and Pokemon are the two most popular series from Nintendo.

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Don't try to reason with a guy who has Chibi-Robo, AR Man, Mr. Hanufuda, Dr. Kawashima, Anna, King Hippo, and a fucking dog on his roster. And also makes terrible and illogical cuts.

Pokemon and Mario having 6 slots is just way too much. 5 is a preferred number to prevent overrepresentation.

Click to expand...

THEN WHY ARE YOU MAKING SOME FUCKING AWFUL ROSTER CHOICES MAN? I MEAN NINTENDOG AND ANNA?!?

....being realistic here, the only 6 from Mario that should get in are the "new" Main 6 (Mario, Luigi, Peach, Toad, Bowser, and Junior). We have 4/6 of them currently and only one of them will make this one. Besides, Mario and Pokemon are the two most popular series from Nintendo.

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Because they are unique Nintendo characters I would like to see before any series could get 5 reps.

@SaturnGamer64 I gave up on a few of those choices like King Hippo (Who could be perfect for SSB5 later on), and AR Man (Whom I realized is not that important to Nintendo)

The transition from the original Smash Bros to Melee kept the original 12 and just added to the roster. However the transition from Melee on the Gamecube to the Brawl on the Wii did not keep every character from the previous game. There were some removals and some replacements. This is bound to happen, or most likely would happen, going into the fourth game next year.

Here is the challenge this time:

From Melee to Brawl we lost Roy, Mewtwo, Pichu, Young Link, and Dr. Mario. Let's say there were the same amount of cuts/replacements from Brawl to SSB4, a TOTAL OF FIVE. Who do you think they should be? And why? Please give your reasons too.

Pokemon and Mario having 6 slots is just way too much. 5 is a preferred number to prevent overrepresentation.

Click to expand...

THEN WHY ARE YOU MAKING SOME FUCKING AWFUL ROSTER CHOICES MAN? I MEAN NINTENDOG AND ANNA?!?

....being realistic here, the only 6 from Mario that should get in are the "new" Main 6 (Mario, Luigi, Peach, Toad, Bowser, and Junior). We have 4/6 of them currently and only one of them will make this one. Besides, Mario and Pokemon are the two most popular series from Nintendo.

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Because they are unique Nintendo characters I would like to see before any series could get 5 reps.

@SaturnGamer64 I gave up on a few of those choices like King Hippo (Who could be perfect for SSB5 later on), and AR Man (Whom I realized is not that important to Nintendo)

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Well, if you WANT them then that's completely okay! But, if you thought for a second anybody on that list would ever be playable AH LAWD HAVE MERCEH!

-Lucario (give newer gens a chance, time "has passed")
-Snake (other third parties make more sense, are more Nintendo related)
-Ike (newer FE reps, don't need Ike as he his style could work for others)
-Toon Link (cut done on doubles, give Zelda newer reps like villains and side characters)
-Wolf (cut down on a franchise that doesn't have much push now)

Snake, ROB, Jigglypuff, Ivysaur, Squirtle (with those two out, Charizard can be a solo fighter)

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Well if it wasn't Wolf it would certainly be either the PKMN Trainer or Lucas for that spot in mine.

As for Lucario, easily replace him with Zoroark, she could fit better now, and a returning Mewtwo. Update the Trainer to Red with Mega-Evolutions (Final Smash) and a more X/Y vs Origins Look and we are good.

The transition from the original Smash Bros to Melee kept the original 12 and just added to the roster. However the transition from Melee on the Gamecube to the Brawl on the Wii did not keep every character from the previous game. There were some removals and some replacements. This is bound to happen, or most likely would happen, going into the fourth game next year.

Here is the challenge this time:

From Melee to Brawl we lost Roy, Mewtwo, Pichu, Young Link, and Dr. Mario. Let's say there were the same amount of cuts/replacements from Brawl to SSB4, a TOTAL OF FIVE. Who do you think they should be? And why? Please give your reasons too.

Have Fun!

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I see rants have already been started by this discussion topic so I'm not sure this was the best topic to discuss. ASSUMING there is only 4 characters per series (it is certainly possible for 5 but for the purpose of this "challenge" here is what I will say.
1. Snake- seems like the most likely out of Brawl characters
2. Lucario- and no I don't think he will be replaced by Mewtwo, that is not how it works. Reasons why I THINK Mewtwo could be a higher priority... a more iconic Pokemon and here is why I think why
Exhibit A: The Anime. Mewtwo had a very recurring and important part in the anime and if it has any influence on him like it did Jigglypuff than this is where Mewtwo has the edge on Lucario. Not only was he very important in the regular show but he was one of the main characters in the VERY FIRST Pokemon movie, the movie that started it all so if any Pokemon character has an advantage by being a star in a movie, it's Mewtwo. Mewtwo was so popular that they followed up the movie with ANOTHER movie with mewtwo as a star character in Mewtwo Returns.
Exhibit B: THE GAMES! In the very first Pokemon games Mewtwo was one of the most sought out Pokemon characters (which could possibly be because of the anime), this trend has increasingly continued in games and he is still one of the most well-known sought out Pokemon characters ever. He also possessed unmatchable power in matchups and was considered "brutal" and "hard to catch" by many. He was inn fact one of the most advertised characters for the first generation which is considered one of the most iconic. Now with the new generation his new form is being advertised a lot, EVEN MORE than the other Mega Evolutions. Did you wonder why his evolution was the first to be revealed and is advertised the most and had its OWN movie (now this makes THREE Mewtwo movies).
Exhibit 3: Popularity!!!! In almost every poll, Mewtwo usually does VERY well in polls and like said earlier is one of the most well known Pokemon EVER!

I wouldn't bother arguing with @BluePikmin11 about why Nintendog is an absolute impossibility. He's not an idiot by any means but he does seem more interested in choosing characters for shock value or to be 'different' than characters that are important or necessary. Case in point, adamantly arguing for Dr. Kawashima to be playable (despite Dr. Kawashima being a real-life neuroscientist and not a Nintendo IP).

But yeah, there's a reason why Nintendog has a completely non-violent Assist Trophy and a completely non-violent role in the background of the Nintendogs stage. I don't make the moral codes, but Nintendo wouldn't be okay with a real-life photorealistic dog either dishing out or recieving violence in their video games.

Snake, ROB, Jigglypuff, Ivysaur, Squirtle (with those two out, Charizard can be a solo fighter)

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Eiehter way someone is going to be dissapointed. I don't see why the hell you would make Charizard solo, it would be as redundant as adding another trainer when we already have one (just get rid of everything that makes PT unique that what it seems like you people want) also PTs are very important characters in Pokemon games and was advertised as a main newcomer for Brawl (why does everyone forget he was on the cover and one of the most shown off characters for Brawl.

While I don't care for Jigglypuff she is very easy to animate and actually has a pretty unique moveset with Rollout and Rest and since people have already discussed why Jigglypuff can in fact stay I'm not going to go any farther. Though I do think adknowlegeing she was low priority for Brawl can work against her.

I'm pretty sure people like GhostPikmin have discussed why ROB is in fact an important part of Nintendos history... and he is a retro. He is a lot more important than the retros you other people are suggesting.

Snake can go IMO nor is he really have a good relationship with Nintendo.

I know you are Lucario fanboy but seriously now... is it entirely out of the question to think that he actually has a chance of leaving. I'm a TL fan but I think it is pretty realistic for him to leave.

The way I see it is that no one from pokemon franchise is safe except pikachu, Lucario have a chance at leaving its possible but realistically I can only see him being cut by time constraints I don't see him as top priority but I do see him Between middle and high priority mainley because he fits the criteria of what sakurai looks for when chooseing pokemon reps and he brings something new to the table with his unique moveset and gameplay mechanic

The way I see it is that no one from pokemon franchise is safe except pikachu, Lucario have a chance at leaving its possible but realistically I can only see him being cut by time constraints I don't see him as top priority but I do see him Between middle and high priority mainley because he fits the criteria of what sakurai looks for when chooseing pokemon reps and he brings something new to the table with his unique moveset and gameplay mechanic

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This is pretty much my stance on the Pokemon franchise.

For what it's worth, I do think Pokemon Trainer has pretty high priority too though, as a starter character in Brawl (no starting characters got cut between Melee and Brawl), a character on the box art and one that was heavily advertised in general. Pokemon Trainer is pretty much the Marth of the Pokemon franchise - not always the protagonist, but the most important Lord/Trainer by a long shot and the Lord/Trainer that had the biggest influence on games they didn't actually physically show up in. The mechanic of choosing from one-in-three at the beginning of a Pokemon game is iconic, and the three starters Red has are the most popular by a country mile.

The only reason I could see Pokemon Trainer getting the cut is that he may cause technical difficulty or just be a time-killer to program (on account of technically being three characters). I honestly think it was probably a technical reason why he wasn't in Smash Bros. in the first place because he's the protagonist of Pokemon, plain and simple.

Well if Red does get cut chances are they would still want A trainer in there.

Who would that be is totally up in the air.

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No, I'm pretty sure if Red gets cut it'd be for technical and/or roster size limitations. Red and his set of Pokemon are the most deserving, straight-up. Removing Red for Dawn/May/Ethan/Krys/George Zimmerman would be like removing Pikachu for Piplup.

Eiehter way someone is going to be dissapointed. I don't see why the hell you would make Charizard solo, it would be as redundant as adding another trainer when we already have one (just get rid of everything that makes PT unique that what it seems like you people want) also PTs are very important characters in Pokemon games and was advertised as a main newcomer for Brawl (why does everyone forget he was on the cover and one of the most shown off characters for Brawl.

While I don't care for Jigglypuff she is very easy to animate and actually has a pretty unique moveset with Rollout and Rest and since people have already discussed why Jigglypuff can in fact stay I'm not going to go any farther. Though I do think adknowlegeing she was low priority for Brawl can work against her.

I'm pretty sure people like GhostPikmin have discussed why ROB is in fact an important part of Nintendos history... and he is a retro. He is a lot more important than the retros you other people are suggesting.

Snake can go IMO nor is he really have a good relationship with Nintendo.

I know you are Lucario fanboy but seriously now... is it entirely out of the question to think that he actually has a chance of leaving. I'm a TL fan but I think it is pretty realistic for him to leave.

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I find it hilarious how I randomly picked five people and you're right on my ass. Lemme make it very clear: I don't want not like characters getting cut. Do I want cuts? Absolutely not. The five I chose were right off of my head. Other than Snake ( who had the highest chances of getting cut), I can't really think of anyone else to cut.

Does he have a chance of getting cut? Perhaps; but the people who want Lucario cut are either Mewtwo fanboys, don't like the newer generations, think Lucario replaced Mewtwo, or any of the above. Until he's confirmed or the game is released, he has a damn good chance of staying...period

Well if Red does get cut chances are they would still want A trainer in there.

Who would that be is totally up in the air.

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No, I'm pretty sure if Red gets cut it'd be for technical and/or roster size limitations. Red and his set of Pokemon are the most deserving, straight-up. Removing Red for Dawn/May/Ethan/Krys/George Zimmerman would be like removing Pikachu for Piplup.

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Seriously, what would HIS Pokemon even be?

But still, there is the chance of another Trainer (there is no guarantee Red stays or that Red can't be replaced). His chances of staying are high, but nothing like the Veterans from past games.

I'm all for open discussion, and I think people should express their opinions freely. But in all seriousness? Replacing Red makes about as much sense as replacing Marth for another lord, as replacing Olimar for a newer captain; as replacing Captain Falcon with another F-Zero pilot. They could do any of these things, but it makes far more sense to not do so.

I'm all for open discussion, and I think people should express their opinions freely. But in all seriousness? Replacing Red makes about as much sense as replacing Marth for another lord, as replacing Olimar for a newer captain; as replacing Captain Falcon with another F-Zero pilot. They could do any of these things, but it makes far more sense to not do so.

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And that is why it is just a possibility, no guarantee (for the change)

In fairness, I'd fucking love a classic Red Vs. Gold match on a Mount Silver stage... but Red absolutely comes first in the priority of Pokemon Trainers, and the chance of a second Pokemon Trainer getting in is about on par with Reggie being playable and having a down-B that transforms him into Naruto.

Maybe you could enlighten me as to what you mean as I haven't played any of the tales games and I'm just going from videos I've seen and his character design. Fire Emblem's myrmidon/swordmaster/trueblade class tier and Lyn especially seem to emulate his style of fighting from what I've seen. As much as I hate this portrayal of Lyn, you can see the similarities i'm referring to and why coming from a standpoint of it being a Nintendo game, adding Lloyd into the roster would be excessive. That's just my opinion anyway

As we all know snakes inclusion was due to request from Kojima himself, I don't think his role in the roster going forward need be present, but ultimately that's not my call.

I have many dreads about what pac-mans inclusion will lead to, namely his appearance in SFxT. I think Kos-mos being a sort of a bond between the companies working together would be an excellent choice, especially since the company that created the character is now owned by nintendo. Let's hope takahashi requests it from sakurai in the same way Kojima requested Snake

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Agreed, although I'm not getting my hopes up. And yes soon we'll probably see that kirby wannabe in a odd mech Tron-bonnesque like thing lol. If he's without the suit and just punches with those boxing glove hands, then little Mac chances are gone IMO.

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Wow, you guys obviously know nothing about Pac-man. "Kirby wannabe"... da hell? lol fell for it...Pac-man came out WAY before Kirby. "odd mech Tron-bonnesque thing" Does the Megaman in Smash look like Bad- Box to you. Nuff said. "If he's without the suit and just punches with those boxing glove hands" Wow, I don't even... if you seriously think all Pac-man does is punch... I don't even know what to say... play a Pac-man World game I guess. And I would hope any gamer should know Pac-man's trademark is EATING and BITING, I mean come on!

Also, for crying out loud I've already explained to you that KOS-MOS is completely owned by Namco. The Xenosaga and Xenogear series are both owned by Namco. The only Xeno games owned by Nintendo are Xenoblade and X. Also while I love KOS-MOS don't you think she might be a little... inappropiate.

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1. I was taking a jab at him for teh lulz, I know he came first
2. We have no idea whether they'll use a mech or not, it's just an option
3. I was talking about his new form, i'm 20 bro, i've played old school pac-man before
4. It's wishing thinking we both know her chances are slim to none.
5. Calm down before you post dude.