Cuernavaca

Hey, Again, Rex, I've visited Cuernavaca (which I call CV because I enjoy confusing people) twice. I'm thinking of moving to CV from the US and really like the north part of the city, partly because of the climate that you so accurately described. May I ask what area you're in, and how it compares to the other parts of the city you lived in... other than the climate difference? Well, there, I've already asked, so the real question is, will you answer? Thanks.

Re: [robbers] Rex

Robbers, nice to get your inquiry. I never encourage or discourage anyone to live here, but I will try to answer your queries as best I can. If you call Cuernavaca CV you really will confuse people, When I see CV, I immediately think of Ciudad Victoria. There are few Americans here, many of them live in the village of Tepotztlan, it is about 20 miles from Cuernavaca and many of them call Cuernavaca “Cuerna” and Tepotztlan “Tepotz” that seems ignorant and lazy to me. If a person is going to live in México I think they should at least learn to spell the names here. Typos are understandable, lazy shortcuts are not.

I never abbreviate the name of our city except when writing notes to myself. When I do that, I usually use either CVA or CVACA. Those are abbreviations used by two of the Mexican shipping companies here, they seem to be more logical to me.

We now live north of Avenida Universidad in the far northern part of the city, the climate here is never hot in the summer although it does get warm sometimes in the spring. We have been using one or two oscillating fans in the house lately, sometimes three, that is all that is ever needed to be comfortable here, no air conditioning is ever needed. We sleep with just a sheet on the bed in the spring and summer here, no blanket is needed or wanted. We just got our bi-monthly electric bill, it is $100 Pesos higher than usual. US$ 7.64 extra to be comfortable for two months is not a biggie.

It is never really cold in the winter here, I have never seen frost in Cuernavaca, although it does get cool on winter nights. 3 or 4 years ago during an exceptionally cold winter in México it did get down to 48-49º F, for a few nights, in normal winters, the temps never get lower than 59-60º F.. If we go out at night, a Windbreaker ® type jacket is all that is needed to be comfortable. I haven't needed to wear gloves outside since we moved here.

The first place we lived at here was in the Fraccionamiento of Burgos at the southern edge of the city, it is considered to be a part of Cuernavaca, but actually it is a part of the municipio of Temixco. Part of Burgos is gated, the part we lived in was not, although we had our own private police force, door to door peddlers had to register with our police and get a permit, and notify the police when they were in our area. In the year we lived there I think we only had salespeople ring our bell 3 times. We lived in a retorno (cul de sac) and the cops used to like to park in front of our house to take their breaks. It was a very safe area.

The thing that motivated us to move from that area was the heat in the spring and summer, and when the nearby farmers burned their cane fields every year there was always ash fall intermittently for a few weeks. I don't know what was in those ashes but when they dropped into our swimming pool there was always an algae bloom. It would take me a week to get the water clear again, just in time for the next ash fall.

One nice thing we enjoyed in Burgos was the butterflies. There are big white butterflies there with huge wingspreads. They vary from the size of a saucer, to the size of a salad plate, some of them are even as big as a dinner plate. I have only seen a couple of them where we live now and they were little guys, only about the size of a saucer.

The next place we lived was in the Colonia De la Selva in the north central area near Carlos and Charlie's restaurant. It was very nice there and close to everything, but the noise and dust from the Go-Cart track behind us was annoying. The clean air and noise abatement laws are not enforced here as is the case in most of México. We moved again.

The house we live in now is very nice, it was new when we moved in, we are the first occupants. It is a 15 or 20 minute drive through narrow, traffic choked streets to go shopping, out to dinner, etc. though. We plan to move somewhere in the north-central area again.

There are few English speaking foreigners here although it is often claimed that there are 5,000 Americans living here. I doubt if there are even 500 of us here. This is a Spanish speaking city. It is a rarity to find a fluent English speaking person in any government office, store, bank, or business here.

There is great shopping here within a few minutes drive from our house, from the little abbarotes and verdaduras to the city mercado to many supermarkets, restaurants, Liverpool and everything in between. There is a Sams Club and a Costco, Starbucks (Italian coffee company is better) and every kind of an American hamburger joint, Home Depot, Office Depot, Office Max, etc. We used to need to drive to México City to buy many things, that is seldom ever necessary in recent years.

I personally have been very lucky because we have become friends with a very fluent English speaking young woman named Bertha (pronounced Berta) that is now the Gerente of one of the Iusacell cell phone company offices here. Iusacell is king in the central highlands of México. Iusacell will furnish you a phone at no cost if you sign a one, two, or three year contract with them, or, they will program a phone that you own at no cost, and issue a new phone number for it so you may use their pre-paid phone cards. The cost of reprogramming a phone is waived when you buy your first $200 Peso phone card.

If you do move here I can put you in touch with Bertha if you want to check on the Iusacell service.

I am pretty sure it is illegal to live in Cuernavaca if you don't have at least one dog, or two cats.

C-u-e-r-n-a-v-a-c-a

I didn't mean to create a separate thread, because who wants to let the Cuernavaca secret out of the bag, right? Anyway, want to thank you for the reply, you're always so gracious with your time and information.

Sounds like you might be up as far north as Santa Maria, or thereabouts, but I'm not really that familiar with the geography.

My favorite area, of the parts of the city that I was exposed to, is up Subida de Chalma. In fact, all the way up. As you may know, it's almost a separate eco-zone up there, with pine trees and critters you don't see in Cuernavaca proper. A bit like Huitzilac (which I call HZ, LOL), actually, but not quite so far removed and seemingly without the sticky "common land" issues.

The weather up there is very similar to what you describe in your current location, possibly a bit cooler, but not much.

For me, it seems Cuernavaca is an almost ideal place to retire, for several reasons. The climate, the proximity to Mexico City (which, I believe, has an acceptable two-letter abbreviation, unlike CV or HZ), the size of the city, and the combination of the convenient places that you mentioned along with the indigenous charm.

If anyone out there knows of another city with similar attributes, it'd be interesting to hear from them.

Re: [robbers] C-u-e-r-n-a-v-a-c-a

Robbers, no, we don't live as far north as Santa Maria, we are still in town but on the northern edge of it. You are right if you drive up the libre past Huitzilac on the way to México City, you will see landscapes and forests that are unknown closer to town or on the cuota. You will also experience truck traffic that is so heavy that you won't ever want to see it again. If anyone riding with you ever gets car sick, don't take the libre.

The proximity to México City (which everyone in the Republic of México just calls “México”) has an advantage when you want to fly out of the country. There is an airport in Cuernavaca, but it is not an international airport. If you try to fly out of the country starting in Cuernavaca, you will have an 8 or 10 hour layover in México City. If you don't have a friend that will drive you to the México City airport, you may take a bus from Cuernavaca and a cab from the bus station in México to the airport there. Do the reverse when coming home. It is not expensive, but it is time consuming, even though it is only 85 kilometros from here to México, but that distance is just to the edge of the city, which is huge.

It always seems a little unnatural for me to type “City” after México but I know that many of the people that visit these boards do not live in The Republic of México and it would be confusing to them if I didn't type México City when I mean México, the city. Many people also say D.F. (Distrito Federal) to describe México City, but the whole city is much larger than the Federal District.

My wife and much of her family is from México City, and we used to live there, so I know a little bit about the place.

Prices for most things including real estate are lower here than in any ex-pat enclave. If a house for sale or a rental is priced in US Dollars instead of Mexican Pesos, it is overpriced, pass on it. I pay $30 Pesos plus a $10 Peso tip for a razor cut haircut here for a total cost of $40 Pesos for a very good haircut. When we left Anchorage a razor cut cost me $27 US Bucks plus tip.

The best hamburgers in town are at El Porton, next to Sam's Club. You can get second rate burgers at the 3 or 4 Burger Kings in town.

Be prepared for an expensive annual nightmare when you renew your FM3 visa here, and a non Mexican citizen can only get a drivers license valid for one year in Morelos state.

Rex "The supreme happiness of life is the conviction that we are loved" - Victor Hugo

Re: [Anonimo] C-u-e-r-n-a-v-a-c-a

As of a year or so ago there were a very few buses to and from Cuernavaca and the México City airport, it required co-ordinating your outgoing and incoming flights with the bus schedule. Miss the bus and there would probably not be another until the next day. It seemed to be too much of a hassle for me.

With the construction of the new terminal at the airport, I don't know what the situation for the direct buses is now, or where to catch one. A couple of years ago I went up to The US by myself, my wife was going to meet me at the México City airport when I returned. A day before she was to pick me up, her van had to go to a shop and some parts had to be ordered for it from The US, it usually takes a month to get them. If you track the parts shipment, they usually get to the border in two days, where they sit in US Customs for a month.

Her van was assembled in México, but parts for Mexican manufactured cars must often be ordered from The USA, they don't seem to have an efficient parts distribution organization here, and the auto assembly plants will not ordinarily sell parts that are needed to assemble new cars.

Doris negotiated a price of $900 Pesos with a local cab driver to take her and her mother to the México City airport and pick me and my luggage up and drive us all back to our house in Cuernavaca. Not cheap, but $90 US Bucks for that round trip was not too bad.

I didn't know anything about the problem with her van until after I got home. If she had called me, I could have taken a cab to the north bus station and caught a bus to Cuernavaca there, that would have added 2 or 3 hours to my trip and I did appreciate all the effort she made to pick me up in a timely manner.

Who said retirement was going to be easy?

Rex "The supreme happiness of life is the conviction that we are loved" - Victor Hugo

Re: [Anonimo] C-u-e-r-n-a-v-a-c-a

Anonimo, it appears that all of the departures listed are from Cuernavaca to the México City airport, there have always been many of them. Maybe I don't know how to use their search tools, but I couldn't find a single departure from the México City airport on the Pullman de Morelos website.

I am not even sure if it was the same bus company that had the route from the México City airport to Cuernavaca, but I believe the route was listed for a city further away than Cuernavaca, but a passenger could get off the bus here.

I have ridden a bus from Cuernavaca to México City 5 or 6 years ago, and from México City to Cuernavaca about a year later. Those buses travel very, very slow until they get out of town, and then they only speed up to about 45 or 50 MPH on the cuota. It is a slow, time consuming trip of about 2 hours from station to station. It is slow but safe. A far cry from 25 or 30 years ago when the bus schedules were unrealistically tight. You were taking your life in your hands in those days if you took a bus anywhere.

I hope I never have to consider taking a bus to or from here to the México City airport, but if you find any more info about the routes or times, please post it.

Thanks, Rex "The supreme happiness of life is the conviction that we are loved" - Victor Hugo

Re: [robbers] Cuernavaca

You have received very good descriptions of Cuernavaca. A beautiful city, with lots of advantages. Many foreign restaurants, for example. The one disadvantage is that it costs more to live there than in Ajijic in my opinion.

The reason is that Cuernavaca is a tourist town which on weekends is invaded by thousands--yes, really--of Mexico City residents who weekend in Cuernavaca. Hotel and restaurant prices all spike on the weekends or puentes, or vacations as well. Naturally some of that is reflected in the normal prices in stores and other services. So tourist rates govern on weekends and vacations not like the beach areas where prices usually spike based on the Winter Season.

True, Ajijic and the Lake Chapala region are also weekend tourist targets for Guadalajara citizens, but they don't arrive in the numbers that flood into Cuernavaca. Nor have I seen the prices spike there for the weekend. Mayibe I'm not observant.

Long-time residents of Cuernavaca may object to this assessment, but in the two times that I have visited Cuernavaca, once as a weekend tourist and once as a student of one week in one of the best language school I have attentended--but not the best which is in Mérida--those price spikes and the influence on the rest of the city were very notable.

It would be interesting to compare the cost of living of several Cuernavaca residents with similar residents in Ajijic, San Miguel de Allende, and Puerto Vallarta. With the demise of AIM, shopping list comparisons are not readily available any more.

Re: [jerezano] Cuernavaca

Thanks very much for the added information. It got lost somewhere that I've actuallly been to Cuernavaca three times, about an average of two weeks each time (thanks to some very good friends there who are nice enough to excuse my endless idiosyncrasies). And everything you said is exactly correct, except you forgot to mention that Christmas brings even more of those weekend warriors, it's like a more sophisticated version of Xmas in Vegas.

The whole "weekend from DF" thing is really an interesting phenomenon and I discovered that many of them actually own second homes in Cuernavaca. Maybe I'll just squat in those really nice weekend homes on the weekdays and go homeless on the weekends. Being quite reclusive, people who know me tell me I need to get out more on weekends anyway, LOL.

Your information about the relative cost of living compared to the Lake area is exactly what I was looking for. From what I understand, the climate there is quite similar to Cuernavaca. And other similarities, I gather. The main difference, perhaps, is that the Lake area has lots more expats from the US and Canada and I suppose this results in it being more "accommodating" in some respects. Am very interested in that aspect of the comparison.

And, anyone else who lives in a location with similar weather to Cuernavaca, in or near a city of similar size who wants to offer their thoughts, it'd be greatly appreciated.

This thread is Cuernavaca, but perhaps it was meant to be "comparisons to Cuernavaca." Actually, I didn't intend to start a thread at all, had posted on the "climate" thread and I guess a moderator gave me my own little forum. Now I feel so responsible for its care and feeding, LOL.

Re: [robbers] Cuernavaca

We have heard the tales of the hordes of weekend visitors from México City flooding Cuernavaca since before we moved here. While it is true that many of the wealthier capitalinos do own weekend homes, and weekend house and bungalow rentals is a thriving business here, the crowds of weekenders are just never evident. I don't know about the night life places though since we never go out dancing, drinking, or clubbing. Good restaurants are always a little busy but not noticeably more on weekends or holidays.

On this past Good Friday holiday my wife and her Mom drove back to Cuernavaca from México City, they said the cuota was crowded with slow moving bumper to bumper traffic with people escaping the city for a holiday. Many of those cars turned off to enter Cuernavaca, but most of them went on, probably to Acapulco.

The next day was our wedding anniversary so I invited them out for a nice dinner a day early so they wouldn't need to cook after their stressful drive here from the city. I expected to see some crowds in town. The streets were deserted. There were less cars and people than normal. It was a pleasant surprise. I have always believed that the holiday crowds here are more myth than fact.

I must respectfully disagree with Jerezano, I have never noticed any price rises on weekends or during holiday periods, maybe they do in the clubs, I don't know or care about that. We both think the cost of living here is definitely lower than in Ajijic or Guadalajara, particularly real estate prices, there is no such thing as a “gringo price” here.

Of course, having a Sam's Club, Costco, and a Wal-Mart Supercenter within about five miles of our house is a good price leveler. We have great shopping here with lots of choices including the mercados, tiangus's, verdaduras, etc. which means lots of competition. Competition always means lower prices. We grow most of our own Chiles and we are about to harvest our first home grown pineapple, if it is as good as we expect it to be, we will plant a few more of them. We grew our first pineapple in a pot, no fertilizing, just use some good soil and give it a drink every 2 or 3 days.

I have posted before that Doris spent many of her school vacations in Ajijic when she was a kid and we visit that area frequently so we have a good understanding of most prices there. Dori's late uncle and her aunt used to own a lot of properties in Ajijic and for 20 years or more they tried to practically give us one of their houses there if we would live in Ajijic. It is a nice place, but it's not for me permanently.

I don't believe anyone should try to convince any other people as to where they should live, everyone should make their own choice for something that personally important. Living in Cuernavaca would definitely be a hardship for most Americans because of the general lack of English usage here. Spanish is it folks. I never ask for an English language menu in a restaurant so no one will confuse me with an outsider.

Rex "The supreme happiness of life is the conviction that we are loved" - Victor Hugo

Re: [Papirex] Cuernavaca

...it is true that many of the wealthier capitalinos do own weekend homes, and weekend house and bungalow rentals is a thriving business here...

DFers weekending in Cuernavaca has been happening for a long time. My grandmother lived in DF in the 1930s and '40s. I remember her talking of long weekends there. But mostly I remember being fascinated by her pictures and stories about Xochimilco. To a young boy, that seemed the most magical place in the world.

But I post this for the information of others who may be wanting to go from or to MEX airport, and may not have the transportation resources that you have. And I admit, I have not used that bus service to and from the Airport, although it would have been very useful in 2001 had we known of it then.

Re: [Anonimo] C-u-e-r-n-a-v-a-c-a

Thought I'd try one more time before this thread retires itself and moves to Mexico:

""And, anyone else who lives in a location with similar weather to Cuernavaca, in or near a city of similar size who wants to offer their thoughts or, better, a comparison if possible, it'd be greatly appreciated.""

Re: [robbers] C-u-e-r-n-a-v-a-c-a

I don't think you can beat the climate of Cuernavaca anywhere else in México. Nor the sophistication of a really large tourist attraction.

But for me, who likes the beaches,but not the climate there, I would suggest Tepic, Nayarit, just an hour or so from really unspoiled beaches. But then I don't like sophisticated cities. Mexico City is a good example of a place where I wouldn't live. Monterrey is another. Guadalajara is another although for many years I planned to live there. Cuernavaca is another as is San Miguel de Allende or Puerto Vallarta. I do not like a plethora of gringos or tourists of any nationality.

For good all round living I like Tepic very much, although during cane burning season the city itself can become a bit contaminated.

Climate is excellent. Medical facilities are excellent. Shopping is excellent. Culture is varied and excellent. Available housing varies from de-luxe to reasonable to economical. Hotel and restaurants the same. Transportation by highway is excellent. By air, it's mediocre. Postal service tends to be for the birds.

For air tranport Guadalajara is an hour away just as Mexico City is an hour or so away from Cuernavaca.

And cost of living is very reasonable. When one remembers that the cost of housing is usually the largest outlay of a budget, then Tepic wins hands down. True, you are probably not influenced by that cost of living, but why not enjoy it anyway?

Services for senior citizens is excellent from the city , the state, and from private firms.

Re: [jerezano] C-u-e-r-n-a-v-a-c-a

Thanks, Jerezano, for the information, I've noticed you are always very helpful to anyone in need and I, for one, appreciate it.

Having a difficult time finding much information on Tepic. Which, I guess, is one reason you like it, LOL.

The annual weather charts, for instance, are for Guadalajara, can't find one for Tepic. At about half the altitude of Cuernavaca, I'd have to suspect it's a bit warmer. Equally important is the humidity. In Cuernavaca, even in the hottest months of April-May, the humidity is fairly low, so the heat isn't a problem.

As for real estate, I could only find a few homes listed for sale. Strange not to be able to find real estate web sites, they usually hit you in the face pretty violently after a Google search, LOL. Are there any houses on the outside of the city at a higher altitude? That would be ideal. My best house would have some privacy from neighbors (so maybe on the side of a hill where nobody can have a house just behind mine...maybe just 100 - 120 sq. meters...hopefully under MX$1,200,000. Do you think this is even possible in Tepic?

You mentioned an hour to Guadalajara, is this be car because it looks to be further than that, although I have been know to drive at high speeds, LOL.

Anyway, thanks again, Jerezano, it sounds like you love living there in Tepic.

In that site it states that the average year round temperature in Tepic (measured at the airport in mid valley) is 20*C or 68*F. It then goes on to say that cooler temperatures are available in the mountains. And that is one of the beauties of Tepic. It is located in the north end the valley at the base of the coastal range (name escapes me) and climbs up the side of that coastal range on the west and does the same for another mountain range on the east. So a fairly wide range of temperatures can be found in the city depending on where you are located, just as in Cuernavaca. But from my personal experience during the spring, summer and fall a shirt without undershirt is usually comfortable except on the very hottest days. At night a sheet is usually sufficient. During the winter a shirt with an undershirt is usually sufficient except on overcast and colder days when a light jacket will help. At night a light blanket is a comfort.

Depending on mountain shadowing and whether you want sunlight early in the morning (West Side) or in the afternoon (East Side) you can select the mountain side living you wish.

http://travelingluck.com/...Tepic.html#local_map gave the weather today the first of May for Tepic at the airport (15.6 km outside of town as 32*C/89.6*F, smoke, wind 6.9 kkm/h North and clear skies. A walk in the shade day. Smoke no doubt from the burning cane fields. It also mentions a free e book on how to buy real estate in Nayarit Mexico, published by www.SayulitaCoastalProperties.com. Tepic is within the 50 km restricted zone from the shoreline to inland so the book, although pushing coastal properties, would be applicable for foreigners.

Tepic is located at 900 m (about 3000') above sea level. You asked also about humidity. Haven't been able to find anything on that but I, personally, never found it excessively humid.

You are searching Google for the wrong words. Coastal property in Nayarit is expensive, for the tourist and is advertised in English. Tepic proper is Spanish. Search for "Venta de casas + Tepic + Nayarit" without the quotes and you should get quite a few sites all of which will be listing properties in Spanish at Mexican pesos.

The highway 15D from Guadalajara to Tepic is all cuota, is in excellent shape, and speeds are wide open until you see that radar cop. 110 KM/hr speed limit which nobody except autobuses obeys.

Whatever you do, do not make the mistake of taking Highway 15 libre up the barranca. Beautiful but dangerous and takes forever. If you must drop off to see Tequila or Magdalena or Ixtapan del Río or Santa María del Oro or some other small town, take the cuota and then a side trip.

Yes, you should be able to find lots of houses below $1,200,000 pesos. As for your dream house, who knows?

jerezano. PD: I don't live in Tepic. I live in Jerez de García Salinas in Zacatecas some 500 km or more from Tepic. mk