Buttymum, you are actually referring to a self proclaimed "former abortionist" (is no evidence he ever was one) right win, Republican (USA) who was found to have LIED under oath while giving "evidence" in the USA. Out of all the counties, all over the world these three quacks are well known!!!

Can I have your thoughts on Dr Gosnell? Dr Tiller, who performed partial birth abortions, the clue is in the name, where the baby is partially born head first.Have you read Dr Levantino account on exact procedures of an abortion as he himself as done?

Savanna your info on the uk statistics is incorrect. In 2015 81% of abortions in the uk were performed before 10 weeks. A further 10% before 13 weeks. This is before any knowledge of any anolomies. A further 7% are performed before 19 weeks and the remaining 2% is over 20 weeks. These are the stats from 2015 but the percentages have stayed around the same for many years.

The point is the medical professionals should have acted sooner. They did the section because they agreed she was a risk to herself. Which was the case all along.

They dragged this on for weeks all the while this teen girl was suffering. I dont know how anyone can sit back and think thats acceptable.

If you have a rape victim they should never be put in a situation that makes their life harder than it already is. She should have been supported. She should have had access to a safe and legal abortion as irish law allows for it.

I dont see how what some state in the US is going has any bearing on what should or shouldn't happen in Ireland.

Women in Ireland should be able to access safe legal abortions in cases like the op.. I want abortion on demand but would settle for covering rape victims, FFA etc. There is no logical sense to not allowing it in these cases. Anyone who stands by and wants to stop women under these circumstances is cruel.

Ahhaa now we're getting closer! Calm yourself down? Huh? I'm perfectly calm, don't try deflect from the truth! Then again that's what anti choice/ pro forced births do because they don't have a truthful, factual position!

The majority of civilized, educated people clearly see fact from lies and emotive language! Many women support women, especially when it comes to rape. How inhumane. The poor woman in question and the many like her.

My post was not disgusting, others agreed with me. So!??

Anyway back to the point,this woman a refugee, raped, suicidal was delayed in terminating her pregnancy. The law failed her and as a result medics failed her. Don't put words in people's mouth.

No one killed a 26 weeker or justified it so what are you even talking about?? You seriously need to chill, you're so blinded by what you want to see.

You are perfectly entitled to your opinion, as am I. I go with facts though! Hope you're registered to vote :)

The reason people start getting offensive is because people insist on spouting complete and utter rubbish as fact.

"Maybe ye can justify killing a 26 week is OK because it's the woman's right." - for example. She requested an abortion at 2 months but because of incompetence any decision was delayed by a further 4 months. You are obviously extremely anti abortion at all costs even when the pregnancy is due to rape, as was this case, so you are hardly impartial.

Savannah, the poster in question is infamous on these boards, she is no meek defenceless lamb who needs someone to jump in and stand up for her.

Even posters who have tried to reach out to her (e.g. Siobhanor, recently, on another thread) have had their efforts thrown rudely, and squarely back in their faces.

The poster in question chose to make her mental health issues a matter of public knowledge on these forums by posting them herself. No one forced her too, so when someone else remembers it, she also has no one to blame but herself.

Cracked, as far as I am aware, a woman claiming to be suicidal has to undergo evaluation by a panel of 3 psychiatrists. I am not fully aware of the ins and outs of all the criteria e.g. counselling - but as you can see, in cases like these there is often an urgency due to the small window of time in which a termination can be offered.

Miss Y's medical records would be confidential (as everyone's are) but there are some details in the timeline posted too below.

Hi Sekhmet, I remember reading about the case, but didn't follow it too closely. I'm genuinely interested now, especially the legal side. Is her medical report a matter of public record? For the cutlery etc. Poor girl. What is the current legislation for suicide intent? Do you need to be signed off by one doctor, or two? Does it have to continue for a certain length of time? Do they have to offer you counselling first? Could a woman who was given an abortion sue at a later stage for lack of counselling etc?

Cracked, allowing this woman a termination would not have broken any laws here.

She was suicidal, and under our laws, a termination in those circumstances was legal. She was examined in hospital by not 1, but 4 consultant psychiatrists.

What happened here is the so-called professionals who were responsible for this girl's welfare dropped the ball and/or dragged their feet for so long, that despite arriving here in March, it was late July before this girl's pleas were taken seriously.

While hospitalised the she was deemed enough of a suicide risk that it was recommended she had one to one care, (i.e. supervision) and was not allowed access to cutlery when they offered her food!

Insulting OR offensive! Not both!! But hey (AGAIN) don't let facts get in the way LOL!

"Because of your previous admissions about your mental health I'll go easy on you".... That was the only mention on your mental health! That's not an attack.

If you can't take it, don't give it!

The 8th will be repelled but what the CA suggested was even better than that. Good indication of our civilized society.

The poor women came here as a refuge, was raped in her country and did not want to continue with a pregnancy that was a result from that rape. She was forced to continue until they delivered a baby at 26 weeks so this team of "experts" DID agree but it was too late. Another scandal of this country. Disgrace.

Ireland DID NOT fail her. We don't perform abortions here just because she didn't want the baby. This is our country and our laws. We did nothing wrong. I as an Irish woman, born and reared in Ireland don't want abortion in this country. I will not be voting to repeal the 8th nor will I vote for any form of abortion.

Educating please go and familiarise the protection of life act that was in place when this woman arrived here. Stop spreading mis informed information. At least get your facts right abortion does happen in Ireland. Legally and illegally.

What part of she didn't know she was pregnant do you not understand? Or are you going to continue pulling your theories out of your ass? A medical assessment discovered she was pregnant. She didn't come to Ireland for a termination how ludicrous to say that. This woman sought refuge here. Ireland failed her. Like it or not.

Correction : 23 abortions were performed in Ireland in 2015 so abortions DO happen in Ireland. Over 1000 women bought the abortion pill on line so abortions DO happen in Ireland. That is on top of the 3,500 Irish women who travelled for an abortion in 2015 but ad long as it isn't happening IN Ireland we can pretend it isn't happening and ignore it.

Splendid11, I am many many many things but a coward is NOT one of them. I have no issue posting my opinion/thoughts on this site. I don't attack a person's health nor do I go dragging their personal situation as may have been disclosed on other threads into new ones. The way I am treated on this site is disgusting and bullying. But I am not going to go away. I will post my views as I wish.

On this particular thread.....abortion is WRONG. It is not allowed in Ireland. A lady coming here pregnant who wants an abortion but travelled through other countries to get here who allow abortion has ulterior motives in my opinion.

Carbyrne was sanctioned for putting her thoughts in the public domain. Those who hide their vitriol behind private messages are cowards. She has every right to out people who have sent her abusive messages.

I feel very sorry for this woman, to seek asylum in the first place means that she has probably been through a lot in her life.I don't think we, as a country, should have to pay millions because we didn't break our own laws in this case. I'm assuming that our trained professionals deemed that she wasn't a risk to her own life when she first presented. We should pay to house, feed, clothe, educate, and help her to overcome the trauma she experienced in her own country. Being raped must be horrific, we should be directing our anger at the man who raped her, not coming here to argue that her baby's life should have been ended, that wouldn't have reversed the rape, and might have had worse long term effects?

Well, well, well. I shall copy and post here the abuse via a pm I just received from Ann11/ Sligo1983/ educating1. What threatening and vulgar language! Ironic for someone who is supposedly "pro life"!! But then again fairly usual for the extremists. At least I am upfront in what I have to say and not sleeveen sending pms using profanities and threats!

The extremists surely have arrived! I better run tell teacher!

Anyway, facts remain facts and referring to out dated, non academic "articles" or "studies" does not make for facts!

If a woman who is pregnant as a result of rape procures abortion pills and is caught, she can currently serve a longer sentence than her rapist.

Us mothers (and fathers on here) take heed- If a young girl becomes pregnant, she has no option to terminate the pregnancy regardless of whether incest or rape has taken place - a child cannot consent to sex. Pregnancy is possible once ovulation begins - usually a year or so after a girl's first period. Girls as young as 12 have become mothers.

Currently in Ireland, only the children of unmarried women or orphaned children are eligible for adoption. In certain cases, if a married woman becomes pregnant due to rape, she may surrender the child for adoption but only when the facts of the child's paternity satisfy the Adoption Authority of Ireland (Source - TUSLA). This offers women in sexually abusive marriages no option but to continue with their pregnancy.

Making abortion available to all women does not mean all women will access it. Highly restrictive abortion laws are not associated with lower abortion rates. For example, the abortion rate is 29 per 1,000 women of childbearing age in Africa and 32 per 1,000 in Latin America regions in which abortion is illegal under most circumstances in the majority of countries. The rate is 12 per 1,000 in Western Europe, where abortion is generally permitted on broad grounds. (Source - World Health Organisation).

If you oppose the right to choose, you are not Pro-Life. You cannot be pro one life and not another. If you are not Pro-Choice, you are Anti-Choice. We are all in favour of protecting lives. Pro-Choice does not mean Pro Abortion. Nobody is calling for forced abortions - people ARE campaigning for the continuation of forced births. If you REALLY wanted a "love both" or "happy outcome for both" you would trust the woman to make her own choices about her own body and all that is held in HER own body.

If abortion is only allowed in cases of rape, not only will women have to endure horrific sexual assault but the onus will then be on them to prove it. 65% of rape survivors who presented themselves to a rape crisis centre in 2015 had not reported their rape to an authority. (Source - Rape Crisis Network Ireland).

And lastly, just to mention- the 8th Amendment is not only about abortion - it also restricts the ability of a woman to consent to or refuse certain tests, procedures and treatments during pregnancy. (Source - HSE National Consent Policy).

There is no happy ending with what happened in this case. How can anyone say that!?! For the child or the women what long term effects could these two may have to endure. It will never be your problem because your just happy a baby was born. Your version of a happy ending is irrelevant to this women.

I am also hopeful that neither I nor my daughters or subsequent generations of females will be forced to have sexual intercourse and then carry that baby against my/their wishes m like a worthless vessel, until I/they can be operated upon (again against my/their wishes), to remove the baby from my body with limited chances of its survival. I hope that in future that a woman's psychological welfare is considered with the appropriate urgency and isn't delayed by ridiculous Stone Age laws that prevent the medical profession from practicing in a way that is seen as international best practice.

For that reason I hope she wins. Because what happened to her was disgraceful and wrong.

Pregnancy has a protective effect against suicide, particularly during the pregnancy and two years following birth. 2 out of 100,000 pregnant women commit suicide, as opposed to the total rate among women of 3.4 of 100,000.[i]A 2008 British Journal of Psychiatry analysis of 30 years of abortion and mental health data showed that abortion is the only pregnancy outcome linked to increased risk of mental illness. Live birth, miscarriage, and even unwanted pregnancy leading to live birth did not predict mental illness.[ii]A 1995 study by A.C. Gilchrist in the British Journal of Psychiatry found that in women with no history of psychiatric illness, the rate of deliberate self-harm was 70 percent higher after abortion than after childbirth.[iii]A 1996 study in Finland by pro-choice researcher Mika Gissler in the British Medical Journal found that the suicide rate was nearly six times greater among women who aborted than among women who gave birth.[iv]A 2002 record-linkage study of California Medicaid patients in the Southern Medical Journal, which controlled for prior mental illness, found that suicide risk was 154 percent higher among women who aborted than among those who delivered.[v]By 2003, the data was so compelling that a team of researchers published in the Obstetrical & Gynecological Survey (OGS), one of the top three obstetrical journals in the United States, identified a number of studies that found that induced abortion increased [the incidence] of mood disorders substantial enough to provoke attempts at self-harm and concluded that, as a matter of medical ethics, any woman contemplating an induced abortion should be cautioned about the mental health correlates of an increased risk of suicide or self-harm attempts as well as depression. [vi]A 2005 study by Mika Gissler in the European Journal of Public Health found that abortion was associated with a six-times-higher risk for suicide compared to birth.[vii]A 2006 study by New Zealand researcher David M. Fergusson in the Journal of Child Psychology and Psychiatry, which controlled for a prior history of depression and anxiety and suicidal ideation (wanting to take one s own life or thinking about suicide), found that 27 percent to 50 percent of women after abortion reported suicidal ideation. Mr. Fergusson found that the risk of suicide was three times greater for women who aborted than for women who delivered.[viii]A 2010 study by Natalie P. Mota in the Canadian Journal of Psychiatry found that abortion was associated with an increased likelihood of several mental disorders - mood disorders substance abuse disorders as well as suicidal ideation and suicide attempts. [ix]In September 2011, a meta-analysis in the British Journal of Psychiatry found an 81 percent increased risk of mental trauma after abortion.[x]The American Pregnancy Association states that individuals with previous emotional or psychological issues are precisely the individuals more prone to experience emotional or psychological problems after an abortion.[xi]Abortionists in the state of South Dakota are required to disclose the increased risk of suicide before performing an abortion. This law has stood strong despite court challenges.[xii]A paper titled "Does abortion reduce the mental health risks of unwanted or unintended pregnancy? A re-appraisal of the evidence" was published in the Australian and New Zealand Journal of Psychiatry in April 2013 and confirmed: "There is no available evidence to suggest that abortion has therapeutic effects in reducing the mental health risks of unwanted or unintended pregnancy". As part of the Christchurch Health and Development Study, Professors David Fergusson, John Horwood, and Joseph Boden analyzed data from eight recent New Zealand studies that looked at levels of anxiety, depression, alcohol misuse, illicit drug use/misuse, and suicidal behavior in post-abortion women compared to those who carried their pregnancies to term. [xiii]