so far the only two that can used Teni Muhō No Kiwami (Pinnacle of Perfection) are Ryoma and Tezuka, but what about ryoma's brother ryoga do you guys think reached Teni Muhō No Kiwam?

October 06, 2012, 12:24 AM

Fuji Shusuke

Re: Teni Muhō No Kiwami (Pinnacle of Perfection)

Can you stop making pointless threads?

And no, I don't think Ryoga achieved TMnK.

October 06, 2012, 12:33 AM

Hardy

Re: Teni Muhō No Kiwami (Pinnacle of Perfection)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fuji Shusuke

Can you stop making pointless threads?

And no, I don't think Ryoga achieved TMnK.

Let him be lol.

Back to topic, no, I don´t think Ryoga reached TMnK.

October 06, 2012, 01:01 AM

-Ken-

Re: Teni Muhō No Kiwami (Pinnacle of Perfection)

You knows that most of these thread can easily go into Hangout thread, that's where you talk about general stuff. There's no need for new thread.

I also don't think Ryoga get PoP. Doesn't Chitose say the only person to reach it before is Nanjirou?

October 06, 2012, 01:28 AM

Phantron

Re: Teni Muhō No Kiwami (Pinnacle of Perfection)

Quote:

Originally Posted by -Ken-

You knows that most of these thread can easily go into Hangout thread, that's where you talk about general stuff. There's no need for new thread.

I also don't think Ryoga get PoP. Doesn't Chitose say the only person to reach it before is Nanjirou?

That's about as useful as saying the legendary Super Saiyan only appears once in whatever years. The upper tier high schoolers don't even seem all that impressed with Tezuka hitting that level, and presumably they know what that is. Synchro was something only the top professional double players ought to have and by NPOT it's about as common as Muga.

Looking at the characterization G1-5 are certainly at a level where they could learn PoP. Whether they actually have it or not is anyone's guess.

Actually if you want to be super technical and by the book, the only requirement to learn PoP is that you enjoy playing tennis. In fact given the 'have fun' aspect Tezuka is one of the least likely guy to ever learn it, and the relative nobodies in fodder school are far more likely to learn PoP compared to a powerhouse tennis school where having a death march training camp is very common.

Of course presumably you've to be at some base level + heritage to be able to learn it or we'll start seeing random guys in St. Rudolph use PoP but Ryoga certainly meets the base level + heritage requirement.

Actually the whole notion of 'have fun' implies people who make a big deal about losing should never come close to learning PoP, which would include Ryoma too. Nanjirou specifically said playing conservatively trying to win is what keeps people away from PoP. By that token Akutagawa is definitely the person who is closest to PoP since he had a ton of fun even while getting spanked 6-1 by Fuji.

October 06, 2012, 06:16 AM

Fuji Shusuke

Re: Teni Muhō No Kiwami (Pinnacle of Perfection)

Yeah, in one of the Pair Puri's (I forgot which one), it explained Muga and its doors. Apparently, Akutagawa and Kintarou can achieve it.

October 06, 2012, 07:13 AM

Kaoz

Re: Teni Muhō No Kiwami (Pinnacle of Perfection)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fuji Shusuke

Yeah, in one of the Pair Puri's (I forgot which one), it explained Muga and its doors. Apparently, Akutagawa and Kintarou can achieve it.

The fifth one. Also to be more precise, those two are the closest to it. Technically anybody can get there.

thanks for the info. I didnt know jirou had a portential to get TnK. I always assume though you'd have to go through the other doors of muga first. so i would think kirihara would be faster to open Tnk than jirou or kintaro

October 06, 2012, 01:04 PM

Phantron

Re: Teni Muhō No Kiwami (Pinnacle of Perfection)

Nanjirou flat out says everyone can have PoP and denies the fact it's related to heritage. There's no such thing as 'potential to learn PoP' because everyone is at PoP state if you truly enjoy tennis and people lose PoP when they try to put winning above fun. Since he's the only person who actually knows what TMnY is you can't really argue against that logic. You don't need the first 2 doors or even Muga, or the statement 'everyone is in PoP when they first learned tennis' wouldn't make sense.

Of course with the way manga is drawn it's still probably tied to some base level + some learning, because otherwise you'd just have random new members to the tennis club using PoP and start spanking Yukimura and Tezuka (who both clearly view tennis as some kind of self-sacrificing ordeal and is about as far away from 'have fun playing tennis' as it gets).

Akutagawa is clearly the #1 candidate for PoP by this explanation, as it's hard to get more 'have fun' than getting spanked 6-1 and still want another rematch. Kintarou seems like a pretty good canidate for this too. Ryoma strikes me more like a sore loser as opposed to always having fun, but at least he doesn't view tennis as some kind of death march sacrificial behavior, and I guess you can argue he certainly have fun spanking his opponents. That said if you include 'have fun' to include 'have fun even while losing' that pretty much shuts out everyone but Akutagawa and Kintarou on the remotely decent tiers.

October 06, 2012, 11:36 PM

ashore

Re: Teni Muhō No Kiwami (Pinnacle of Perfection)

although there's no set rules where you have to open the other 2 doors to get to final TnK,

i'd think that it would be easier if you had the doors open first and be one step away, rather than have that fun tennis attitude,
and not opened any doors.

a little kid age 12 who loves playing tennis could theoretically get TnK vs other pot players that dont have it?
just opinion of course.

October 07, 2012, 02:31 AM

Phantron

Re: Teni Muhō No Kiwami (Pinnacle of Perfection)

Quote:

Originally Posted by ashore

although there's no set rules where you have to open the other 2 doors to get to final TnK,

i'd think that it would be easier if you had the doors open first and be one step away, rather than have that fun tennis attitude,
and not opened any doors.

a little kid age 12 who loves playing tennis could theoretically get TnK vs other pot players that dont have it?
just opinion of course.

The problem is that opening even one door generally takes you very far away from the 'have fun' attitude. For example, we know Chitose opened his door by attaching random machines to read his brain waves and push himself to the limit. Obviously that's not having fun. It's unclear how Tezuka opened his door but he's also about as far away from 'have fun' as it gets. Ryoma might've had fun opening his two doors, so you get 1/3 had fun opening the first doors while 2/3 did not in the limited sample.

Given the explanation, my guess is that TnK is not meant to be invinicible, so a beginner with TnK will still get spanked by any decent POT middle schooler, for example. Nanjirou specifically said that people forgot the feeling where you enjoyed tennis even while getting spanked. Given the way POT works, it probably goes like this:

You start playing tennis in TnK.

Since everyone around you is some kind of superhuman you still get spanked.

So you decide to get better at tennis by learning from someone better than you or join a club, and yet it's clear that most tennis clubs in POT are really death march camps. Even Ryoma, who learned TMnK, resented having to run a marathon to replace his strings (Inui picked an especially far away shop to build his endurance).

You attempt to model your style after some known good player:

A. Power player - Your life involves trying to maim someone and you're likely to get maimed too. That's probably not very fun.

B. Tezuka - His powerful moves are all self-multilation moves, probably not very fun.

C. Sanada/Yukimura - Their whole philosophy is around winning at all costs.

D. Atobe - Another guy doing whatever it takes to win. He changed his style simply because he believe it's more effective at winning.

E. Shiraishi - He said that Bible Tennis is very boring but winning comes first, so no go there.

F. Fuji - Fuji lacks motivation to play seriously against weak players. Unlike others he at least has fun playing the good players, but he's always shown to be disinterested against weaker opponents, so he hasn't totally grasped the fun part.

Almost everyone you'd use for a role model is almost certainly to take you very far from 'have fun' so you'd never get back to TnK again. Fuji is about the only guy who can even get you halfway on the right track.

So I can see why nobody would ever think 'have fun' is the key in the world of POT. Drinking Inui's special drinks alone should be able to suck all the fun out of someone.

October 07, 2012, 03:15 AM

Kaoz

Re: Teni Muhō No Kiwami (Pinnacle of Perfection)

^I do agree with the above for the most part. TnK probably isn't meant to be invincible or anything of the sort, so even if a beginner would get it, he wouldn't go around beating people left and right, simply because he can't play tennis very well.

The point where I disagree is that I don't feel Tokugawa was so far above Ryoma at that time that he could have beaten TnK!Ryoma that easily, that's about it.

October 07, 2012, 04:09 AM

LetalHawk

Re: Teni Muhō No Kiwami (Pinnacle of Perfection)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaoz

^I do agree with the above for the most part. TnK probably isn't meant to be invincible or anything of the sort, so even if a beginner would get it, he wouldn't go around beating people left and right, simply because he can't play tennis very well.

The point where I disagree is that I don't feel Tokugawa was so far above Ryoma at that time that he could have beaten TnK!Ryoma that easily, that's about it.

Probably, Echizen with TNK playing all out would have won, but what good would have been that? It's better that he lost in order to boost amazingly his base skills and improve more. Now he's able to rally 10 balls with Tokugawa and finish a training session with him perfectly, while the first time got completely owned.