Whatever biases you guys may have against both Zac and Brad, I think the podcast turned out interesting and not too bad.

Sure you can tell Zac isn't into AMVs and doesn't think much creativity goes on in our hobby, but I think that's balanced out by Brad's passionate defense.

Yeah a lot of it goes back to "good old times of ye vcr2vcr" but he was specifically asking Brad how he got started, and also Brad talked specifically favorably about the org. (That's some good promotion for us, and look how some of you are treating it.)

I loved that when Zac said that most people just do comedy to pander the audience, Brad flat out told him how wrong his assumption was and correctly stated that Drama is the most over done category. I loved how he talked up Vlad and about running contests. I loved how he pointed out that AX's issues were it's own fault. Also discussion on AWAs contests specifically were still accurate and true as far as I can tell.

Granted most of us who are massively active in the community could easily state that choosing Brad is a bit dated for discussion on AMVs and that proves that Zac really didn't bother to do much research. However, maybe this interview was supposed to be Brad. If you guys missed it there was also a bit about Brad doing a bit of dubbing work, maybe that paired with his name being well known on the con circuit is why he was the one granted an interview. AMV discussion just happened to go along with Brad.

JaddziaDax wrote:Whatever biases you guys may have against both Zac and Brad, I think the podcast turned out interesting and not too bad.

Sure you can tell Zac isn't into AMVs and doesn't think much creativity goes on in our hobby, but I think that's balanced out by Brad's passionate defense.

Yeah a lot of it goes back to "good old times of ye vcr2vcr" but he was specifically asking Brad how he got started, and also Brad talked specifically favorably about the org. (That's some good promotion for us, and look how some of you are treating it.)

I loved that when Zac said that most people just do comedy to pander the audience, Brad flat out told him how wrong his assumption was and correctly stated that Drama is the most over done category. I loved how he talked up Vlad and about running contests. I loved how he pointed out that AX's issues were it's own fault. Also discussion on AWAs contests specifically were still accurate and true as far as I can tell.

Granted most of us who are massively active in the community could easily state that choosing Brad is a bit dated for discussion on AMVs and that proves that Zac really didn't bother to do much research. However, maybe this interview was supposed to be Brad. If you guys missed it there was also a bit about Brad doing a bit of dubbing work, maybe that paired with his name being well known on the con circuit is why he was the one granted an interview. AMV discussion just happened to go along with Brad.

*hug*

i don't know enough about zac to have any kind of opinion about him, but the fact that someone from animenewsnetwork.com wanted to do a segment about AMVs made me stoked. PROMOTION PEOPLE, HELLOOOO???? and the fact that brad was chosen to do it was more than beneficial for us because he IS passionate about AMVs, he's been in the industry as long as a lot of you have been alive, he KNOWS higher ups personally and knows how to sell the creation of AMVs to them because he only has the genre in his best interest.

god forbid you actually learn something. give the guy a break.

i'd be all for hearing another interview with another editor, tho. much like code's lip flapper, hearing different opinions gives a much more rounder perspective. just don't treat it like the world's ending if you're not a fan of the interviewee. unfortunately, with all the flack zac is receiving i don't see him fishing out another editor anytime soon to interview even if someone is suggested to him by a credited group of people.

Rider4Z wrote:i'd be all for hearing another interview with another editor, tho. much like code's lip flapper, hearing different opinions gives a much more rounder perspective. just don't treat it like the world's ending if you're not a fan of the interviewee. unfortunately, with all the flack zac is receiving i don't see him fishing out another editor anytime soon to interview even if someone is suggested to him by a credited group of people.

Sorry, I'm not sure who blew it (and I can say that, given that I've 100% kept distance from this whole thing), but it's plainly apparent to me that whoever can make those sorts of blanket statements - not the first from him - is an idiot. Rather than blame the nebulous "AMV community" that he supposedly "engaged" (on his own terms, on his own turf, with his own selected guest), I'd say that this sort of unprofessional reaction makes ANN look a lot worse as a result. It's bad journalism. If he wanted to engage the AMV community, he would do so earnestly and without the hostility he's repeatedly shown. The defensive reactions of some of our members to that sort of treatment are entirely warranted.

If you can't approach your subject without hostility, you shouldn't bother. But as an organization that is concerned with anime as a hobby in general, ANN should have enough of a journalistic standard to recognize that this is bad for them. It's not our job to make AMV talk part of the discourse around anime, because it is that by default; and it's their job to cover the anime community in all its forms. The idea that members somehow have to "behave", "give chances" and suck up to people who are being unreasonable and ill-informed to begin with is nonsense. We don't need to beg for exposure with an organization that can't maintain its commitment to engaging with the hobby at large, acting in a manner that's unfriendly, hostile and prone to snap reactions for no reason other than the personal attitude of one of its editorial staff.

By the way, none of this would be an issue to me if not for that last tweet. But that made it all manners of unprofessional and is grossly inappropriate. Anyone with any understanding of journalism can back me up on this.

tl;dr - way to be professional, ANN.

Recently I’ve been haunting myself. The shocking thing is how easy it is to disappear if you really want to. I wonder for the millionth time how long it will be before anyone misses me.-SW/HCE

For the record, I'm not saying we should be begging for attention from ANN, just that I think Brad did a great job defending us and placing us in a positive light. I'm not even really sure what there is to be mad about in that podcast. (As for all the stuff that came after... lets just say wow dramas guys)

Oh, I also have nothing bad to say about Brad here specifically, and I won't. That's part of why I stayed away. I may have some reservations about the choice, but I don't think the drama about his being chosen was completely warranted. I have no problem with someone who's been in the AMV scene as long as he has being interviewed, and although I may not think him to be a good representative for AMVs in general, I'm okay with him speaking about AMVs. Really guys, that's fine. Let him talk. I think the shouting-down that happened at the start of this thread, before the podcast even happened, was also very not cool.At the same time, I feel like having to defend AMVs and place them in a positive light is already a bad place to start. Thanks to Brad for defending us, but it really shouldn't be about that anyway.

My comments are purely about ANN's position and the follow-up.

Recently I’ve been haunting myself. The shocking thing is how easy it is to disappear if you really want to. I wonder for the millionth time how long it will be before anyone misses me.-SW/HCE

Otohiko wrote:Sorry, I'm not sure who blew it (and I can say that, given that I've 100% kept distance from this whole thing), but it's plainly apparent to me that whoever can make those sorts of blanket statements - not the first from him - is an idiot. Rather than blame the nebulous "AMV community" that he supposedly "engaged" (on his own terms, on his own turf, with his own selected guest), I'd say that this sort of unprofessional reaction makes ANN look a lot worse as a result. It's bad journalism. If he wanted to engage the AMV community, he would do so earnestly and without the hostility he's repeatedly shown. The defensive reactions of some of our members to that sort of treatment are entirely warranted.

If you can't approach your subject without hostility, you shouldn't bother. But as an organization that is concerned with anime as a hobby in general, ANN should have enough of a journalistic standard to recognize that this is bad for them. It's not our job to make AMV talk part of the discourse around anime, because it is that by default; and it's their job to cover the anime community in all its forms. The idea that members somehow have to "behave", "give chances" and suck up to people who are being unreasonable and ill-informed to begin with is nonsense. We don't need to beg for exposure with an organization that can't maintain its commitment to engaging with the hobby at large, acting in a manner that's unfriendly, hostile and prone to snap reactions for no reason other than the personal attitude of one of its editorial staff.

By the way, none of this would be an issue to me if not for that last tweet. But that made it all manners of unprofessional and is grossly inappropriate. Anyone with any understanding of journalism can back me up on this.

Personally I don't think anyone "blew" anything. His line; "I'd have liked to do another show that is actually intended to be about the craft of making AMVs and the community behind it, but you'll have to forgive me for never wanting to touch the subject with a 10-foot pole ever again. Not worth it." I think was a lie. He wants to punish us for not kissing his ass.

He said offensive things about our hobby, and rather than dealing with the responses like an adult he responded by escalating the drama and resorting to vulgarity and insults(despite his lip service to civil discourse).

He's unprofessional and ass. It may be somewhat sad that ANN won't be covering the subject of AMVs further, but I think it's no loss if Zac never touches on the subject again.

Koopiskeva wrote:Didn't listen to the podcast, but I read the thread afterwards.. lawl.

Yeah, some of the users who "seemingly" joined the ANN forums are NOT doing this community any favors. Can we at least put aside whatever bad blood some of you guys have for him, and be more appreciative?

Guess i'll just say that user with what looks like an acronym of my yt channel isn't me

That been said, it's hardly a big loss...it's not like that part of ANN gets some epicly large exposure, and i doubt hordes of people are trying to listen to a 55 minute podcast anyway

Don't forget the perennial "the views and opinions expressed during this podcast do not represent the views and opinions of ANN" caveat at the beginning of each podcast (which I always look forward to, since Zac often does some surprising and amusing things with it.) I have not listened to the podcast yet, but what he may have tweeted is entirely in line with his other tweets, which similarly do not represent ANN.

Looking at all this from the outside, I'd say the most I might post at ANN is something advising forum readers that the AMV community itself is incredibly fractious, divisive and argumentative, and anything anyone says about anything AMV-related has likely been and will continue to be challenged in all sorts of ways. In that way, I'd hazard a guess that what he's glimpsing on the ANN forums is not so much the AMV community at large, but the a-m-v.org community. We don't speak for everyone, and yet situations like this certainly give that impression, which makes me sympathize (to a certain extent) with his tweet about never touching the AMV community again with a 10' pole.

I don't think the AMV community is that different from any other community in terms of how we talk about things. I can sympathise with not wanting to invest the energy to wade through some of the more contentious points here, but you have to at least start off with the assumption of goodwill. I don't care who or what you are, but you don't get to bad-mouth an entire social sphere of people in a public venue speaking for the entire hobby, and walk away looking credible.

I'd also have an easier time accepting the "views and opinions" expressed thing if the content itself wasn't featured so prominently on the official ANN page. I'm all in favour of freely voicing opinions, but as someone in an editorial position, one needs to be responsible for the basis of what they voice. I am, for good reasons, offended at our community (as divided and argumentative as it is) being represented badly by something linked directly off a major anime-related site/news source just because someone with editorial capacity there approached us with a lack of goodwill. Sure, Fox News may do that all the time, but that's really not an excuse...

Recently I’ve been haunting myself. The shocking thing is how easy it is to disappear if you really want to. I wonder for the millionth time how long it will be before anyone misses me.-SW/HCE

Warlike Swans wrote:Personally I don't think anyone "blew" anything. His line; "I'd have liked to do another show that is actually intended to be about the craft of making AMVs and the community behind it, but you'll have to forgive me for never wanting to touch the subject with a 10-foot pole ever again. Not worth it." I think was a lie. He wants to punish us for not kissing his ass.

I wouldn't do another interview either if i got the reactions he did. Whoever was to blame or whoever started the slandering doesn't matter. The bottom line is a great opportunity was given to us by having the interview at all, and all the good the Brad did for us was ripped apart by the judgement and condescension of the org. (Everyone) reacted like the interview was final say in anything AMV, and the future of anime music videos was destroyed. It was embarrassing.

If we're going to criticize someone then we should point out the good AND the bad, and not use such derogating words. Forget your pride and whatever zac may have said in the past to insult you. Step up and represent! The org didn't do itself (or the AMV community as a whole) any favors these last 24 hours.

Dude strikes me as the kind of person who'd create a sockpuppet of his own to disrupt the discourse with insults so he could control the conversation himself and draw lines, rather than actually address problems or, god forbid, retract or apologize for statements. That tweet was probably the best news of this thread.

Warlike Swans wrote:Personally I don't think anyone "blew" anything. His line; "I'd have liked to do another show that is actually intended to be about the craft of making AMVs and the community behind it, but you'll have to forgive me for never wanting to touch the subject with a 10-foot pole ever again. Not worth it." I think was a lie. He wants to punish us for not kissing his ass.

I wouldn't do another interview either if i got the reactions he did. Whoever was to blame or whoever started the slandering doesn't matter. The bottom line is a great opportunity was given to us by having the interview at all, and all the good the Brad did for us was ripped apart by the judgement and condescension of the org. (Everyone) reacted like the interview was final say in anything AMV, and the future of anime music videos was destroyed. It was embarrassing.

If we're going to criticize someone then we should point out the good AND the bad, and not use such derogating words. Forget your pride and whatever zac may have said in the past to insult you. Step up and represent! The org didn't do itself (or the AMV community as a whole) any favors these last 24 hours.

My point was that I don't think he planned to do another interview anyway.

He's not an innocent. He started with a contentious view and then acted surprised to receive critical response.

I didn't "rip Brad apart," nor did I associate myself with the org on my forum posts in ANN. I don't think this was a great opportunity that was wasted, and I think the only one who should feel embarrassed is Zac (not that it seems likely). I stand by what I wrote, and I stand by the tone in which I wrote it. Moreover, what I read from other editors I can identify was ALL more civilly written than Zac's posts. Hands down.

Warlike Swans wrote:My point was that I don't think he planned to do another interview anyway.

it's a possibility, but perhaps if he wasn't treated so poorly he might have considered our suggestions.

He's not an innocent. He started with a contentious view and then acted surprised to receive critical response.

i understand this, i do. but again, our reactions weren't any better and didn't make us look good. it made us look like biggots.

I didn't "rip Brad apart," nor did I associate myself with the org on my forum posts in ANN. I don't think this was a great opportunity that was wasted, and I think the only one who should feel embarrassed is Zac (not that it seems likely). I stand by what I wrote, and I stand by the tone in which I wrote it. Moreover, what I read from other editors I can identify was ALL more civilly written than Zac's posts. Hands down.

but you ARE a part of the org. would you deny it if you were asked such on the ann forum? and i meant all the good that could have been done was shredded, not that you ripped apart what brad had to say. and i also mean in general, not you specifically.

i guarantee zac does not feel embarrassed, nor will he anytime soon. he feels insulted, frustrated, belittled, and has an even poorer view of the amv community than before. i'm not saying zac was right the way he responded to our criticisms, what i am saying is WE could have and SHOULD have handled it better.

so the overall consensus that i've gathered about this entire fiasco based on the majority is: have someone else from ANN hold the interviews, and interview more diverse editors. right? sounds like a good plan to me. however we forget, zac is a moderator on ANN.com with his own powers and influence on the sight. forget relying on any help from him. and how do we know if there are any other moderators on the site that are amv fans and would be willing to do the interviews? unless one of us has an "in" it will require a whole lot more ass-kissing than what was complained about in the first place if we expect any more podcasts on ann.com. pucker up.