Ridiculous Pace of Play Idea (tour only)

So I was thinking of an idea for speeding up play (tour only) and the idea I came up with was similar to a chess clock. In chess you get a certain allocation of time to make all your moves. For golf you would have an outside observer start your clock once you are within a certain range of your ball (no stalling) and goes until the shot is hit. The time deducts over the course of the round and at the end if went over your allocated time there would be a stroke penalty. For example a player would get 100 minutes to hit all their shots and each minute over is one stroke. This way a player is aware of how long they are taking but also has the ability to try to save time for critical points in the round. It would be clear to the player how much time they have and would measure pace of play individually rather than as a group. This also could be viewed by the TV audience and could bring secondary drama.

This would definitely take tweaking such as if a player is playing bad they will need more time for more strokes and adjustments for ball searches, penalties, and other items. But this way the player is aware of their allotted time up front and has no excuse for how much time they take at the end of the round and it takes personal discretion of a rules official out of the decision.

I've thought of the chess clock thing too...if they really think pace of play on tour is hurting viewership, which would be the only reason to care if you think about it, that would be their answer.

"I see the distorted swings, the hurried rounds, and now the electric carts tae ruin the course and rob us of our exercise...we have gone off the mark, gone after the wrong things, forgotten what it's all about"

I've had this idea in the past, but I can honestly say I've never watched a tournament on TV and thought "this is taking way too long."

There was a tourney a few years ago where I think Padraig was in the last group, getting vilified for slow play, and he putted out literally 5 minutes before the end of the scheduled broadcast. His point was, if we're finishing at the end of the broadcast, what's the problem?

I've had this idea in the past, but I can honestly say I've never watched a tournament on TV and thought "this is taking way too long."

There was a tourney a few years ago where I think Padraig was in the last group, getting vilified for slow play, and he putted out literally 5 minutes before the end of the scheduled broadcast. His point was, if we're finishing at the end of the broadcast, what's the problem?

That may have been the case for that tournament. I swear, every tournament I've watched in the last year has gone over. Then they keep moving the final holes to golf channel and [email protected]

I agree that until there is pushback for network space from other more successful programs, there is zero incentive for the tour to care about pace. They have the time slot already booked and it seems to be profitable for the networks and the tour.

Now if the second coming of Seinfeld comes on at 7 every Saturday and Sunday, and golf is always running late...there could be problems

So I was thinking of an idea for speeding up play (tour only) and the idea I came up with was similar to a chess clock. In chess you get a certain allocation of time to make all your moves. For golf you would have an outside observer start your clock once you are within a certain range of your ball (no stalling) and goes until the shot is hit. The time deducts over the course of the round and at the end if went over your allocated time there would be a stroke penalty. For example a player would get 100 minutes to hit all their shots and each minute over is one stroke. This way a player is aware of how long they are taking but also has the ability to try to save time for critical points in the round. It would be clear to the player how much time they have and would measure pace of play individually rather than as a group. This also could be viewed by the TV audience and could bring secondary drama.

This would definitely take tweaking such as if a player is playing bad they will need more time for more strokes and adjustments for ball searches, penalties, and other items. But this way the player is aware of their allotted time up front and has no excuse for how much time they take at the end of the round and it takes personal discretion of a rules official out of the decision.

A good idea that will never happen. The USGA, PGA AND R&A are never going to really enforce sanctions against slow play. It's been about 25 years since they actually fined someone for slow play.

I agree that until there is pushback for network space from other more successful programs, there is zero incentive for the tour to care about pace. They have the time slot already booked and it seems to be profitable for the networks and the tour.

Now if the second coming of Seinfeld comes on at 7 every Saturday and Sunday, and golf is always running late...there could be problems

Yeah and sometimes they even go over their time slot when there's a Playoff or a weather delay. I don't know the details of how that works out financially, but I'm sure it's good for the Tour: that bonus half hour or hour covering a Playoff.

Imagine if they did institute some rules and got rounds down to 4 hours. Would it really help the viewing experience that much? I'm not sure. But it would seriously cost them in time available for commercials.

They would also have to try to have the marquee players' rounds always coincide with the TV time slot, which would probably be impossible. Otherwise we'd see, e.g. less holes/shots from Tiger unless he is in or near the lead. Because he or others would finish their rounds just 1 hour into weekend coverage. I honestly think slower rounds helps the broadcast in this sense.

If they actually start playing faster and finishing quicker the tour simply moves the tee times back in the day a few minutes to fit into the desired end time for the networks.

If the coverage is supposed to end at 6:00 pm it is incredibly easy for the Tour to guess when the last group should tee off. They have been doing it for decades.

The positive thing for the viewer would be we could see the leaders play an extra hole or two.

But they don't really gain anything tangible by doing that. There's no reason to do it for the viewer to see 1-2 extra holes of the leaders. They can't monetize that very much more than already is happening. The tour is a business motivated by money, how does pace of play make them more money?

If there's a way faster play makes the tour more money they should definitely consider it but I can't really think of one

If they actually start playing faster and finishing quicker the tour simply moves the tee times back in the day a few minutes to fit into the desired end time for the networks.

If the coverage is supposed to end at 6:00 pm it is incredibly easy for the Tour to guess when the last group should tee off. They have been doing it for decades.

The positive thing for the viewer would be we could see the leaders play an extra hole or two.

If it wasn't televised, no one would care. The only reason people complain is because networks show players looking at a yardage book or reading a green for 30 seconds before their shot/putt. If they only showed the 5 seconds leading up to a swing or a putt, the actual swing/putt and then moved onto the next guy then no one would even know unless you where there in person.

If they actually start playing faster and finishing quicker the tour simply moves the tee times back in the day a few minutes to fit into the desired end time for the networks.

If the coverage is supposed to end at 6:00 pm it is incredibly easy for the Tour to guess when the last group should tee off. They have been doing it for decades.

The positive thing for the viewer would be we could see the leaders play an extra hole or two.

Totally irrelevant?

The normal TV slot on the big network (NBC, CBS) on Saturday/Sunday is 4 hours, right?

If you cut the rounds to 4 hours, you only have around 4 hours of golf from the leaders and marquee players to work with (put into the TV slot).

Now, factor in Golf Channel and streaming services that go outside of the main 4 hour network slot.

Golf Channel can just kiss their ~2 hours of live weekend golf coverage goodbye (like what's airing right now)? I'm sure they will be happy about that : )

Having more total hours of golf to work with means they can spread it across more networks and have more material to work with. It's like having 10 episodes of a popular TV show vs. 7 episodes. 10 episodes will always make more money assuming a similar amount of viewers.

Not to mention Major Championships where the big networks extend the coverage from 4 hours to 5-8. These are the biggest money makers of the year for everyone, and they will not be excited about shrinking the rounds/commercial opportunities.

I think a way to cut down on time is to make players finish out once they play on the green. Nothing worse than watching some guy mark from 2 ft and then his partner plays. Also, I do not get how these guys wait for the other guy to hit, then get yardage and club, then practice swings, and finally hit. Once one guy plays, then next should be hitting his shot within 30 seconds. I get that sometimes this can not be done, but most of the time it can easily be done. Half the time, my friends and I hit while the others' ball is still in the air.

I agree that until there is pushback for network space from other more successful programs, there is zero incentive for the tour to care about pace. They have the time slot already booked and it seems to be profitable for the networks and the tour.

Now if the second coming of Seinfeld comes on at 7 every Saturday and Sunday, and golf is always running late...there could be problems

I think they care and probably the network more so when they go over the time slot. CBS or whoever probably doesn’t want the final round coverage of the Valspar running into 60 minutes. I also think commercial time is cheaper outside the time slot so they’re losing money on that as well.

In general though, golf broadcasts are probably way too long for casual viewers and even if they’re just watching when the leaders go off 4+ hours cruises way past what most sports fans’ sweet zone is for time allotment watching a sporting event.

Like the idea, but like many others have stated, there is no real motivation.

That being said, What I would like to see is just collect the data and mail the fines at the end of the season. We all know they have the data, just log it, and at the end of the season mail each player their fine for the year. Then it doesn’t become drama, or some artificial challenge, it’s just a fine and they are actually enforcing slow play. I bet a couple thousand doesn’t change behavior, but tens or hundreds might.

I agree that until there is pushback for network space from other more successful programs, there is zero incentive for the tour to care about pace. They have the time slot already booked and it seems to be profitable for the networks and the tour.

Now if the second coming of Seinfeld comes on at 7 every Saturday and Sunday, and golf is always running late...there could be problems

I think they care and probably the network more so when they go over the time slot. CBS or whoever probably doesn't want the final round coverage of the Valspar running into 60 minutes. I also think commercial time is cheaper outside the time slot so they're losing money on that as well.

In general though, golf broadcasts are probably way too long for casual viewers and even if they're just watching when the leaders go off 4+ hours cruises way past what most sports fans' sweet zone is for time allotment watching a sporting event.

Who's losing money?

Advertisers are generally willing to pay more for ad space on programs that are watched live because shows like 60 minutes often get recorded and people fast forward through the commercials.

What CBS/NBC care about most is obviously viewership. They aren't upset if a golf tournament goes outside of time slot as long as the viewership is there. If they didn't like playoffs they would have stopped airing them a long time ago or pushed for earlier tee times. But they don't.

Tour officials say they do but quite literally no one ever gets penalized, so then who really cares?? As a viewer, i could care less if a professional round of golf takes 5 hours. And for those who think it’s bad for Joe Golfer to see slow play on TV and will mimic the same behavior on their local goat track, that barn has already left the station so no going back to fix that one. Press and media don’t care either.

Again...the tour is run by the players, talk about speeding up play will NEVER go beyond that.

this ... seems as if a few more are complaining about it each year, but until it impacts a large percentage, nothing will be done ... and i think most of the 'argument' from amateurs is because of slow play on the weekends, not because of the tour ... that's a completely separate issue ...

2. Have the people who record the stats with each group also record how many times someone played out of turn for each player (ie. how many times each player wasn't ready when their playing partners were).

I agree that until there is pushback for network space from other more successful programs, there is zero incentive for the tour to care about pace. They have the time slot already booked and it seems to be profitable for the networks and the tour.

Now if the second coming of Seinfeld comes on at 7 every Saturday and Sunday, and golf is always running late...there could be problems

I think they care and probably the network more so when they go over the time slot. CBS or whoever probably doesn't want the final round coverage of the Valspar running into 60 minutes. I also think commercial time is cheaper outside the time slot so they're losing money on that as well.

In general though, golf broadcasts are probably way too long for casual viewers and even if they're just watching when the leaders go off 4+ hours cruises way past what most sports fans' sweet zone is for time allotment watching a sporting event.

I was actually surprised at 60 Minutes ratings LOL. Yeah they probably don't want it happening every week but i don't think it is. Maybe if they were going 30 minutes over every week there'd be some pushback

I'm still uncertain that if the leaders played in 4 hours instead of 5 that this would actually make more money for the tour (which is the main motivator for anything). The argument would have to be this would lead to more viewers, but i think that's a tough argument as even 4 hours is still longer than a football game

If they actually start playing faster and finishing quicker the tour simply moves the tee times back in the day a few minutes to fit into the desired end time for the networks.

If the coverage is supposed to end at 6:00 pm it is incredibly easy for the Tour to guess when the last group should tee off. They have been doing it for decades.

The positive thing for the viewer would be we could see the leaders play an extra hole or two.

Totally irrelevant?

The normal TV slot on the big network (NBC, CBS) on Saturday/Sunday is 4 hours, right?

If you cut the rounds to 4 hours, you only have around 4 hours of golf from the leaders and marquee players to work with (put into the TV slot).

Now, factor in Golf Channel and streaming services that go outside of the main 4 hour network slot.

Golf Channel can just kiss their ~2 hours of live weekend golf coverage goodbye (like what's airing right now)? I'm sure they will be happy about that : )

Having more total hours of golf to work with means they can spread it across more networks and have more material to work with. It's like having 10 episodes of a popular TV show vs. 7 episodes. 10 episodes will always make more money assuming a similar amount of viewers.

Not to mention Major Championships where the big networks extend the coverage from 4 hours to 5-8. These are the biggest money makers of the year for everyone, and they will not be excited about shrinking the rounds/commercial opportunities.

The normal network slot is 3 to 3.5 hours.

Today the slot is 3 hours, next sunday it’s 3.5.

Today they are planning on having the lead group play in just under 4.5 hours and they are in twosomes. The last group tees off at 1:35 and are expected to be done before 6:00. Yesterday they got it pretty close. The lead group finished at 5:50 and they had ten minutes of fluff to fill.

If you forced them into 4 hour rounds the golf channel would still have plenty of programming before the network slot. They start teeing off today at 8:41 am. Obviously no one wants to see the guys fight for last place, but they will always have decent golf to cover 2 or 3 hours before the networks start their coverage if they choose to.

But as nearly everyone has brought up, speeding up play is not directly doing anything for anyone involved to make more money, EXCEPT that it improves the “product” from a viewing standpoint. Even the most diehard golf fans, those of us on this board, are fed up with the super slow pokes. We have all noticed that the “product” is slipping in quality because it’s becoming painful to watch some of these A-holes take a minute or more to hit every shot.

If WE, the hardcores, are fed up with watching the really slow players how does the avaerage “casual” golf fan feel about it? It s very hard to directly point to a correlation, but at some point ratings drop. Have they started to? Yes. Can you prove it’s slow play? No. With that said, the decision makers at the PGA Tour offices arent stupid. They know the product is slipping and the ratings are slipping. At some point they will do something about it.

The one giant thing that has saved them is Tigers return. Every week he plays the ratings massively spike back up again. In a perfectly “fair” distribution of TV revenue, The Tour and the networks should actually be paying him millions in appearance fees every time he tees it up.

If a group comes in 16-19 minutes after the group in front, the late group gets assessed a 1 stroke penalty. If it’s 25+ minutes then it’s 2 strokes. Keep up with the group in front of you. Simple

Not that simple though. Let say the front group has three players shoot 67, 68, 69 while the group behind shoots 75, 76, 77. The later group had 24 more shots than the group in front of them yet are expected to play just as fast? That also does account for ball searches and other things that can happen in a normal poor round.

Adding “secondary drama” would seem to be a weak reason to add or even show some kind of running shot clock during a professional golf tournament. Enforce the rules they have or don’t. Doesn’t really matter that much how long they take, cameras go looking for someone ready to hit anyway.

which is typically a bunch of people on greens putting. That has always been my biggest complaint. Too much time spent on putting. Or stupid side storied.

If a group comes in 16-19 minutes after the group in front, the late group gets assessed a 1 stroke penalty. If it’s 25+ minutes then it’s 2 strokes. Keep up with the group in front of you. Simple

Not that simple though. Let say the front group has three players shoot 67, 68, 69 while the group behind shoots 75, 76, 77. The later group had 24 more shots than the group in front of them yet are expected to play just as fast? That also does account for ball searches and other things that can happen in a normal poor round.

Concessions can be made for things like that but I play in stroke play events for $$$ and that’s the rule. Keep up with the group in front

I think a way to cut down on time is to make players finish out once they play on the green. Nothing worse than watching some guy mark from 2 ft and then his partner plays. Also, I do not get how these guys wait for the other guy to hit, then get yardage and club, then practice swings, and finally hit. Once one guy plays, then next should be hitting his shot within 30 seconds. I get that sometimes this can not be done, but most of the time it can easily be done. Half the time, my friends and I hit while the others' ball is still in the air.

I admit I don't get this either. Be ready to play.

I blame the Bob Rotella's of the world for this. Getting yardage and club out is all part of their pre-shot routine now.

Just letting the pro tours use laser range finders would speed up play a lot. The players/caddies spend a lot of time just getting yardages especially when out of position because they have to pace off yardages that are far from any markers.

I agree that until there is pushback for network space from other more successful programs, there is zero incentive for the tour to care about pace. They have the time slot already booked and it seems to be profitable for the networks and the tour.

Now if the second coming of Seinfeld comes on at 7 every Saturday and Sunday, and golf is always running late...there could be problems

The tour cares about filling their window for coverage...nothing more, nothing less. Yesterday's finish at 4:51 CST/5:51 EST gave them 9 minutes to neatly wrap a bow on the coverage and fit the window.