PvP Not Your Cup Of Tea? Come Back And Just Give It A Shot

I've alluded to it in several posts, I feel many people are still avoiding the PvP aspect of UO because of old wounds.

In the Dread Lord Days, it was rare when you entered a dungeon and a PK sweep didn't happen. You had to learn to recall or fight in an instant. I learned PvP in those days not necessarily because I wanted to pursue that gamestyle, but because I had to. It was a matter of survival.

PKs weren't just reds, either. There were tons of blue names that would love to turn on you once they saw you were on the ropes.

And regardless what the revisionist history people say, PKs were very often bullies. They rolled over people who didn't have a prayer of winning (miners, newbies). Don't get me wrong, there were some who were looking for a good PvP challenge, but a lot of them just loved lording power over people. And there were thousands of them.

In a guess a masochistic way, it did have an appeal to play in that world. In UO right now, I have no doubts I'm gonna win 99% of my battles, and come back from my dungeon crawls more or less intact. Back in the day, just making it back to town with your butt in one piece was an accomplishment. Plus, players banded together in posses to hunt down the latest round of highwaymen -- there was a greater sense of stick-together-or-die. Finally, I can say in 10 years of UO, I have never had battles more exciting, suspenseful or unpredictable as tussles with PKs.

Old players have "scars," so to speak. You'll notice we still get edgy when someone walks right next to us at the bank. Perfectly harmless now, but there was a time that was a sure sign you were about to be robbed. But old habits and prejudices die hard.

And I think there is a prejudice against PvP in the hearts of many players, if they care to admit it or not. They think back to the days before the facet split, where PKs terrorized the player base. Where PKs could very likely gank you, and steal everything you own -- I mean that without hyperbole: they could get your house key and loot it all any time they wanted.

But I encourage such players to come give Felucca a shot -- your crafters and newbies are safe in Trammel. Gone are the days when you'd have to nervously mine with one hand over the recall macro.

But with bless deeds and insurance, there's absolutely nothing to lose. Think about it -- you got killed 6 times last night by a demon beserker but think nothing of it. Yet getting killed in PvP is somehow worse?

The only difference between the two is that in PvM you've lost all your insurance money. In PvP you get a shot to get a quarter of it back (if you can kill the guy who killed you after you ress).

Even if you've played strictly Trammel for years, I encourage you to step through the moongate, and just give it a whirl.

Death no longer means anything in UO. There is no sting, the grave has no victory. PK or monster, it's all the same now. So why not try it and see if it breathes new life into the game?

I would love to go there...my biggest problem with the commumity there is that unless you are allied in some way with a bunch of players either red ore blue, you are a walking target.

Another aspect of the place is that it seems the exploits are running in full unfetterted form...you may be able to be looted by someone with a script, or who knows..I just can't seem to get it past my thinking that once you go thru those gates, you are under a totally different set of rules, most of which aren't in the roc.

This is exactly why RED's should be allowed in all Land Masses, and not stuck in Fel. You can't attack anyone in Tram. anyway. But it will help PvP, and Factions. It will allow players to get to know more about Factions, and PvP without having to type questions, and run, and res, all at the same time, hehe

Until this happens, Pvp will just continue to die out, and Factions will have no chance at all of getting enough members to make it worth the effort that EA says it wants to put into them.

Sounds like someone is getting bored killing the same ol' pks again and again. Always nice to know you can kill 99% of the entire shard as opposed to 99% of reds.

Speaking for myself.. and knowing that many MANY share some of my thoughts, we don't go to fel because we know without any shadow of doubt we will be killed. By players who have better connection, better macros, better equipment, better gear, more experience and an entire alliance to come in at the last second to assist if we just happen to get the upperhand. We don't go to fel because we don't use speed hack programs, pot guzzling, aid &amp; petal eating, trap using, secret exploits. We don't go to fel because we know the deck is so stacked against us that we might as well just leave the insurance gold on the ground for you.

Not that we don't want to go to fel. We pvm's have become quite the experts at fighting monsters. We know fel has some great monsters.. and personally would love to go toe to toe with them.. but we know it won't be just them.. we know we will work hard, very hard to get those spawns going, only to be faced with the certainty that we will be jumped by reds who monitor those spots. We know we'll soon be faced with a host of red guilds who want to teach us blues a thing or two about doing 'their' spawn.

You say we should come to fel and have some fun. Kinda like Lucy assuring Charlie Brown she won't pull the football away at the last second (for the 1,000,000 time). You say the worst we will loose is our insurance gold.. which we loose to monsters anyway. Well the point is .. with monsters we have a chance to win.. AND keep that coveted bezerkers scythe.

So have fun.. enjoy yourself in fel.. and know you can whoop up on 99% of pks!

On my shard, theres a select few whos using these things. Theres maybe 5-10% of the pvp'rs. They are frowned upon. Most these things do stuff that you can accomplish without using any of them, hell many scripts are downright [censored] compared to a persons ability to do the same thing. Speedhacks is basically just cranking the CPU usage on UO. Which in turn can be accomplished by settign client.exe to high/highest priority in your proccesses tab in the task manager (Wont be AS good, but same thing really).

If you want to do champs, do some research. Theres tons of guilds out there whos dedicated champ hunters, and they always seem to want more members or allies. Just make sure you join/ally a decent one so they wont rob you. Set your "rules" when it comes to scrolls, rolling for them and so on. Hell, theres even guilds out there dedicated to help you fend off raiders just because they love pvp for a small fee, or even for free.

My experience is that fel is in general a nicer place than trammel if you give it some time. In fel if you go to hunt for instance. Theres next to no chance you will get killed if you do it in a dungeon without a champion altar. If there is however, someone hunting in your "favorite" spot. Find a new one, or simply kill them. You'll get a rush out of it atleast.

Some people tend to think that Yew gate is the standard of pvp these days, which it is on some shards. But the people who really like pvp, and has been doing it for some time know that Yew gate is nothing but lame tactics, griefers and trashtalking gankers for the most part.

I urge you to start up a guild, or better take your current guild. Go do a few champs, if peopel on your shard recognize you as fresh blood its more than likely they will go easy on you to draw more people onto the facet and playstyle so many of us love. If they dont, they are most likely new age pvp'rs who just dont give a [censored] about anything than their own bank balance.

By players who have better connection, better macros, better equipment, better gear, more experience and an entire alliance to come in at the last second to assist if we just happen to get the upperhand. We don't go to fel because we don't use speed hack programs, pot guzzling, aid &amp; petal eating, trap using, secret exploits. We don't go to fel because we know the deck is so stacked against us that we might as well just leave the insurance gold on the ground for you.

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Mhhh ... I know what you feel, and I know some of it is true, but man, i've been playing in Fell for years, and often go to Tram to do a bit of PvM (which is nice, too), so what I'll tell you is a bit of a compromise: surely, there are some guys out there who don't hesitate to speed hack, use scripts to help them in PvP and such... but those aren't the majority.
While reading you, I was telling myself: "Does this guy really thinks all PvPers act that way ?"
And then I told myself it wasn't possible ... or at least I hope you don't think like that, mate.

In a mass, you only see trouble makers, and never pay attention to the "silenced" majority, like every human does.

But a lot of us Fellucean will tell you: either to get over with all that cheating, OR pray OSI, who, since YEARS, haven't done anything about SpeedHacking and PvP Scripts and exploits. (we all know our GMs are busy ... busy ... err ... well, at least, we know they're there, right ? or ... err ... at least, we've got some ! I mean ... somewhere. Maybe.)

OH ! And one last thing: there's a lot of Fell guys out there who wants to see Trammel players come and enjoy PvP as much as they do; it's NOT hard to be integrated in Fell community. Just chat around, meet people ... if you're new to all this, you'll have some opportunities. Then you'll make your own experience, and you'll get better at it (it's not hard, really).
Macros and gear ? Sorry, but I don't accept those as an explanation.
Macros can be build easily, and there's several guides on the web to help ya with that, and don't forget that gear doesn't make skill.
You can have whoever you want - full-arties - in front of you, and several of them even; they won't last long against a group who's well stuffed (I said well, not extra-artie-***** ... you know, the affordable type ) AND who uses teamplay well (healing, don't run after one guy, don't fall into traps, stick together, call targets if needed)

Well, I hope my english is not too rusty, but the main idea is: yes, there's some wrong stuff going on, but don't get the wrong impression: everyone got his place, in Fell, even if it "feels" harsh at the first place.

(and the first poster is totally right: dying in Fell, actually, doesn't mean anything, because you don't lose anything. But I found this insurance system totally crappy. That's another debate ^^ )

edit for the post under: Yeah. There's several types of PvP, just name a game, man, because we lack some details, there. Shadowbane pvp ? Neocron ? Guild Wars ? EQ II ? DAOC ? UO PvP isn't "terrible", I think; it's a bit different, and a bit technique too, there's a few things here and there that doesn't fit well, but it's not bad, far from it.

It's a great shame that folks like yourself don't feel as safe as you should in Fel. The last time I got PKd in Fel I was standing chatting outside Deceit after an open harrower night about a year ago. Even during the book of truth quest, I was chased but never killed. My miner hasn't been PKd in ages. Damn inconvenient, I relied upon regular PKings to clear my pack of junk

One of my regular shop customers introduced himself the other night. Red as a berry. Not entirely sure what his intentions might be towards my alchemist, I step indoors. I get partied up, and told how much my shop is appreciated and thanked for supplying said red's provisions. Yes, Fel is truly a horrible dangerous facet, my visitors give me endless grief... Well if you call ordering potions and decor grief that is

If anyone is interested in trying fel, just take a minimal kit, newbie clothes or blessed armour pieces and as few pots and regs etc as you can. Then you have nothing to lose.

Maybe it's my luck.. but every time I go to Fel I get ganked. Just a few examples include going to a friends house to prep for t-map hunts, going to yew moongate to watch "honorless" pvping going on, going to explore rarely used champ spawn with friends from other guilds, mining, attending shard wide tour event, defending Maginicia Fel from invasion. Not once did the same person gank me twice.

I don't engage in smack talk, I don't ask to duel, I don't provoke, I don't pvp. It's just my experience, it's just my luck, but stepping onto Fel facet is knowing I'll get ganked. Frankly, it's not fun.

I think if you are venturing into places like champs, event spots and Yew gate, your muppet to nice person ratio gets borked significantly. If it annoys you when they gank you, then Fel probably isn't for you. It's one thing to get annoyed at yourself if you did the wrong thing, fluffed a spell etc. But you need to be able to laugh at death to get the most from PvP, and to an extent, Fel.

The only time a fight ever bothers me is if I could have won had I only done this or that. It's not what others do, it's what I messed up. But it's all down to practice and getting lots of fighting done so the process is more instinctive. I have instinctive running and sneaking, but I'm still working on the fight and kill side

Death no longer means anything in UO. There is no sting, the grave has no victory. PK or monster, it's all the same now.

[/ QUOTE ]Wrong! Death takes time, it interupts your play session, and it costs insurance gold.

All these "revive Fel/please come to Fel so I can PK you" threads made me think, they should REVERSE the insurance thing, if a PK kills me, _I_ should get _HIS_ insurance money.
If death REALLY is so painless, and insurance so cheap, surely you wouldn't mind this? If I could get gold for running around Fel being a PK target, I'd live there. Currently there's no reason to go to Fel, so it remains dead.

I have to say... I started this game before there was a trammel... and life will never return to those days. UO is so item &amp; bank balance based these days that you are almost certain to run into someone who wants to take your head off while you're in Felucca. If you don't run into such a person... you simply don't run into anyone at all...

And I'm not playing this game to be alone. I dig community... and shy of champ spawn mob guilds, I don't see that community happening outside of Trammel anymore.

It doesn't bother me to take a count whenever I feel it is necessary to kill someone (basically, when the said persone try to grief me in any way. Another cool thing with Fell...)

Never had a red. (Ok, I don't think I have the skill to run a "real" PK, to be honest. To be a good PK, I mean. Ganking a bunch of non-Pvpers is easy and could be done by the worst PK team ever. Please don't confuse griefers and real PKs)

There's a philosophy, too, in those "good" PKs.
It's those guys who have some high skill in PvPing, and who avoid trashtalk; it's also that guy who will kill you without a word if you're blue, but who won't come back and mock you; the type of guy you can discuss with afterwards.
(for those of you who roleplayed on pen-and-paper games: there's the evil [censored] who does evil in an immature, power-greedy way, and there's the other, who won't be evil on any simple occasion, but who can be REAL evil when he wants to/needs to. And this discussion makes me think about a lot of discussions I had with other pen and paper RPG Dungeon Masters concerning PvP within a campaign, or even about the "effectiveness" of evil in a role-playing game.)

Some of you guys seems to think that Fell's only population consists of red characters. I wonder how my blue guild would survive in such a world. Well, we'd survive for sure, but it'd a hella lot more difficult.

Wrong! Death takes time, it interupts your play session, and it costs insurance gold.

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Yesterday I was toe to toe with a Fallen Warrior in the void, and a Fetid Essence and Dark Wisp abruptly appeared and triple-teamed me into the grave with a mana dump.

Well now let's see.

* That took time to get ressed.
* That took insurance gold.
* And it interrupted my play session. It was no fair for that wimp to double team me like that and screw up my game.

I fail to see how you are making this out to be any different.

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Another thing to consider is if you die to spawn, it costs you 600 gold per item. If you die to a player, it only costs 300 per item. Dying in PvM is TWICE AS EXPENSIVE as dying in PvP. So the insurance cost is NOT a valid argument.

The fact that folks are so violently opposed to the idea of PKs and PvP makes me hypothesize the following:

#1 - They still view PvP as a largely nonconsensual affair.

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It is now with Trammel. But in Fel, 99% of the time it's NOT consentual.

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#2 - They take it personally that another player killed them, as opposed to an AI cartoon on the screen. So you kill me in PvP. It means nothing. You aren't a better player, I'm not less of a player, and the circumstances were such that you got the upper hand this time. So what?

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My #1 problem with PVP in UO is that I don't personally have 40 hours a week to play the game. I recently revived an old account. Three of my characters were in Fel when I first logged them on. I headed all of them to the nearest Moongate. The first character got attacked just outside the moongate. I don't have the time to dedicate to learning all of the PVP skills when there's other things to do in the game that take up the 5-10 hours a week I'm able to play. Perhaps if there was someone to practice with, or if I was in game long enough to be active with a guild, eventually it might be worth it. Probably not, as UO pre-Trammel was never able to take the grief out of being PKed. Can't say that I miss it.

"It is now with Trammel. But in Fel, 99% of the time it's NOT consentual."

As much as I dislike PvP, this statement is incorrect. Simply going to Fel is your consent. You can do everything in Tram that you can do in Fel except PvP (aside from guild wars &amp; such). The moongate is the PvP switch.

One of my regular shop customers introduced himself the other night. Red as a berry. Not entirely sure what his intentions might be towards my alchemist, I step indoors. I get partied up, and told how much my shop is appreciated and thanked for supplying said red's provisions. Yes, Fel is truly a horrible dangerous facet, my visitors give me endless grief... Well if you call ordering potions and decor grief that is

I miss the old days, I really do. At least then if someone mouthed off to you or did something rude or stupid, they were in serious danger of dying.

Lots of these folks nowadays are spoiled and some even go to the extent of being real jerks, without any risk of me killing them. Sorta dumb when you remember how much more respect a lot of folks had for others back then.

Yesterday I was toe to toe with a Fallen Warrior in the void, and a Fetid Essence and Dark Wisp abruptly appeared and triple-teamed me into the grave with a mana dump.

Well now let's see.

* That took time to get ressed.
* That took insurance gold.
* And it interrupted my play session. It was no fair for that wimp to double team me like that and screw up my game.

I fail to see how you are making this out to be any different.

[/ QUOTE ]I'm not, death ALWAYS suck, but when you are fighting monsters you CHOSE to fight them, and you can ALWAYS run away and prevent death.
The only reason you died was because you stayed put and tried to finish the warrior while the two other mobs attacked.

When another player attacks, you have no chance to escape, you're guaranteed to die, and you didn't choose to fight, you might have just been mining or something else.

uo pvp is a joke. i play wow or something on steam if i feel like pvping.

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WoW PvP = Rock Paper Scissors in 3d.

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some classes (or teams, in the case of arenas) have advantages over others. this works the same way in that some templates have advantages over other templates.

obviously wow pvp isn't perfect. personally i think it was much better pre-bc, before cross-server battlegrounds. i've never been a huge fan of arenas, and i hope they get back to competitive wsg in wotlk. still, wow is far and away better than uo in its current state. the fact that there are threads begging people to come to fel/SP speaks volumes.

the wow devs actually support pvp as well. wow has a $200k+ tourny going on right now, uo has what? greater dragons, that's what.

i still love this game. always have, always will. there are just better alternatives when it comes to pvp.

Kill the hacks, exploits, and scripts first. Then make it less item-based. Next make powerscrolls easier to get for people that aren't in the guild that owns the shard. Then maybe more people will try to PvP...

I dont have a problem with PvP and agree some of the most memorable (but by no means all of) memories I have of UO are PvP.

Probably the numberr one best memory is when I placed the original style Patio house (wthe one with the forge on the patio) nor the north side (at the east point) of the bay on the North side of Trinsic on Great lakes.

The Second is placing the Tower just North of the Patio but just south of the swamps.

My issue is this, many people call it PvP but that is NOT what it is. The majority, if not overwhelming majority, is Hack/Exploit/Cheat vs Hack/Exploit/Cheat OR I cant lose vs I cant win (aka Uber vs New rez'd naked player).

Again, my point is, go there and give it a try with a character who can take care of himself. If it ain't your cup of tea, by all means remain in Trammel -- all I'm saying is, things have changed since the DLD and it's worth checking out.

[/ QUOTE ]I have no such character. I have an account full of PvM characters and crafters. My PvM characters might have some of the right skills and some of the right equipment, but _I_ don't have the right skills.

I'm not talking about taking my mule to Fel, I'm talking about taking my fully arty decked out warrior, and being 100% utterly certain that if another character shows up on my screen, I am guaranteed to die, I have zero chance to get away, and equally zero chance to fight back. So I stay out of Fel.

Like I said, if _I_ got the insurance money when _YOU_ killed me, I'd live there. It'd be worth it then for _ME_. Currently there is NO incentive to bring _ME_ to Fel, There are only reasons for _YOU_ to bring me there. All these "please come to Fel and give your insurance gold to my red" posts prove it. The majority of players have no reason to go to Fel. Guaranteed loss isn't a very good reason.

[edit]A few more points I'd like to make and questions I want to ask:
People say I should go to Fel for the PvP, and the player interaction. Then people defend Fel and say they live there and never ever get PK'ed or attacked. These two points cancel each other out.

If I go to Fel, and never meet anyone else, I don't gain, nor loose anything, so why did I just go to Fel?

Now, If I go to Fel, meet someone, who obviously attacks me instantly as Feluccans do, and by some random chance manages to not loose, say the other guy looses conn. What have I gained? If I go to Fel and die, I lost insurance money, time and all the aforementioned, but if I win, then what?

The perverted sadistic pleasure of knowing I ruined the other players day? Some twisted sense that I'm better than the other player? At what? Conn speed? I have more time to play UO that the other player has?
In in-game terms I gain nothing. If I had stayed in Tram and PvM'ed I might have gained an arty, new items for the turnins, a great loot item. And so on. If I beat someone in Fel, what's in it for me?

Think pvp's need to hire a good PR man. The product you are trying to sell stinks from too many hackers, cheaters and gankers. Most peeps don't want to buy what you are selling. Like any corrupt organization or defective product, you may need a complete overhaul, mea culpa, and/or public banishment of those who so flagrantly abuse the system before the majority of people feel your product is worth buying.

You can tell us pvp is fun and honorable. You can argue that dying to mobs and dying to pks is the same thing.. but it's not.. and we know it.

There was no PvP then. It was PK. PvP was invented to make people OK with the practice.

Curious this thread is missing the PvPers common complaint about the nefarious and indiscriminate gank squad. I guess those aren't mentioned as much when the reality of an empty Fel hits home. Fel is lollipops and Goldschlager now. Where people ask if you are in the mood for a duel: "Fancy a duel, m'Lord?" Doubt it.

I go to Fel, but not to PvP. It is way too empty not to take advantage of the resources. Also, some of those reds are really starving for wares, so I sell them what they need.

The difference from being murdered and killed in battle? That is obvious, isn't it? When a monster gets me, I am killed in battle. That's heroic and noble, my psyche has no problems. When I am murdered for existing, that is unjust and treacherous. My psyche is unnerved and I get irritated, my heart rate increases. I know that is wimpy and all, but that is the fundamental problem with player killing. There is a psychological attachment there on both ends.

Some players separate there char from themselves and some see there chars as an extension of themselves. Who wants to pleasure some strange sadist by suiciding there char for him? There is a huge psychological difference between being murdered and dying in battle. It is why PKs exist. PKs know that being murdered blows. THey can see the effect it would have and that gives them perverse pleasure.

Besides that, let's say I want to do PvP and try really hard to kill other PvP players but I always end up dead. That blows. Eventually people will see that I suck and start taunting me. That blows too. Not worth the investment in gear, in advanced mathematics (+2 Powersword SSI, when 115 or higher) -1.3*Gr, when 115 or lower), in revamping my templates when I am already enjoying my playstyle.

Now that there is freedom from all that with Trammel, it is easier for me to go to FEl and get PKed, bc I know I signed up for the possibility. Psychologically I am more prepared.

The best part about Tram though is that it starved the sociopaths. It starved the "pleasure from others pain" types. It has given me pleasure, knowing that the sadists are experiencing grief from having their anti-social playstyle removed.

By simply creating this normal world known as Trammel it has given me perverse sadistic pleasure knowing that the freakozoids are starved of their fun. Nanny nanny boo boo!

* That took time to get ressed. you mean "seconds less" than if a high compassion(sacrifice, I forget which does the better res/healing) just happened to be on scene ...
out the gate ... 10? steps to a pair of ressers ... another 10 to "refresh" HP/mana ...? heh! real "fair" comparision to what LIKELY is gonna happen in fel ...
err not !

* That took insurance gold.
In the void ... there's no need for the insurance ... 'tain't NO looters in there (less its YOUR guilded allies ... WITH permissions ... ) heh! real "fair" comparision to what LIKELY is gonna happen in fel .... I mean ... with the smallest bit of "proper prior planning" ... ie. avoid dying in an inaccessible place (middle of a swarm) ... quite EASY to run back in and retrieve ALL belongings... do you REALLY? really want "new PvPers" that weren't even THAT smart? .... coming into Fel?

* And it interrupted my play session. It was no fair for that wimp to double team me like that and screw up my game.
NOW your talking about a close comparrision to likely events in Fel ( 1 out of 3 ... not too good) ...whether it was due to appearing "redlined" ... or merely that you were "grey"/engaged in combat ... the difference being ... in the void ... it was a RNG determined CHANCE that some other would come and "join against thee" ... ie .... the joiners just happened by ... in fel ... you KNOW darn good and well ... the "sounds of combat" willl draw available stealthers ... to "quickly assess" any available opportunities ... as opposed to the acknowledged fact ... that ... In Fel ... pretty likely your opponent is in vent, or guilded/partied/icq'd ... ie ...TRUE "pack instincts" .... of the arguably highest order.

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I fail to see how you are making this out to be any different.

[/ QUOTE ](laugh)
So ...somewhen (un-noticed and un-noted) The monster AI became equal to ... Players ?(PvP players)
IF you can handle "the void" ... your "ready" to step throught the gate ? sounds like a cattle call .... only innocent sheep need apply ...
sorry if that was not your intention ... but come on ...

That IS the likely result ... just:"yet another plea for MORE targets" ... more POINTLESS targets ...

lets revisit Your one near point: "It was no fair for that wimp to double team me like that and screw up my game"
Okay ... describe "what game" got "screwed up" ... ie. what was the POINT of being in the void ...
Earlier, BEFORE the points and turnins were clarified, what was your "game", "your plan", "your goal" ?

this is so hard to explain to people who pull on others steriotypes of "hackers, scripters, and whatever else" the worst hacks in the history of uo were not bound to Tram or Fel, duping is in both, speedhacking is in both, and scripting is most definately on both, matter of fact, scripting is even more in tram than fel, the problem that you all have with coming to fel, is with monsters you have the upper hand, and why would you hand that over to anyone? you dont care to learn a new challenge. This is the same issue men have that beat their wives, they feel downed by a society, and wont fight other men, so they go home, and to make themselves feel bigger "drink for an excuse" then hit their wives and children....

"This is the same issue men have that beat their wives, they feel downed by a society, and wont fight other men, so they go home, and to make themselves feel bigger "drink for an excuse" then hit their wives and children.... "

But they don't bring 4 or 5 of their buddies to help. And if their "target" somehow gets the upper hand, they don't have their other buddies within a recall away to come and help them finish the job....

Stratics Veteran

Hmm, you don't need to go to Felucca to PvP. You talk of PvP in the topic of your post and the body of the post is about the PK and playing in the land of the PK. I have been playing 10 years so I know the story up close and personnal. I still play all facets, and whatever happens happens, but lets not confuse the PvP with PKing. There are many that like occaisonal PvP (remember this can be done without entering Felucca), but despise the non-consentual element of Felucca. let's at least be honest about what you want people to try.

WoW has dueling, battlegrounds, arenas, PVP servers, and a giant ongoing tournament with hundreds of thousands of dollars in prizes. Oh, and actual useful items you can buy with points earned from PVP.

UO has a handful of scripters in billion-gold suits standing around Yew gate killing each other with their idiotic ninja/tamer/bokuto/necro gimp templates day after day for no real reason.

Since the split I do all my hunting strictly in Fel unless we do a peerless or doom. Since the split I have found that there are more @#$# talkers, griefers, crybabies hunting on the tram side than in fel. I have made my fortune (UO only Brokers are equal to that slime under a fresh dog pile) in fel be it off powerscrolls or selling items to my peers. There is no other way I will have it if siege had more of a production rule set or a production shard with just fel rules I would be there.

Since AOS the game has been dumbed down so much killing a monster is no real challenge The only challenge that is always there is vs someone else. Its never the same totally random outcomes From gettin my arse handed to me from a single player to taking out a 6 man crew vs jus lil ol' me. I have pvped on alot of games and UO hands down has the best PvP system(s).

Some of the best PvPers I know were die hard trammies at one time, they just started practicing with their guild mates and learned the timing. and basicly thats all it is about is timing and practice and teamwork. There was this annoying kid on pacific who's name I wont mention he would ask every mage to dual him didnt matter if they were worse or 20x better no matter how many times he died he asked to dual. Over a period of time he got better and better now he is considered one of the best dualests in the west coast.

Cool on your buddy for learning.. that is smart and sounds like it was consentual dueling.. I'm all for that! The sad fact has to be admitted here, that going to fel isn't about consentual dueling... it's about getting jumped by someone or a group of someone's who have an advantage (insert whichever in this space).

offnesive to who? the ones who were beat as children or the ones who pretend to care, I was beat as a child, by a drunk step father.... i dont think it is as offensive as what you are claiming, where did your view come from?

offnesive to who? the ones who were beat as children or the ones who pretend to care, I was beat as a child, by a drunk step father.... i dont think it is as offensive as what you are claiming, where did your view come from?

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