I'm amazed I have to say this at all. For my NMum, family is everything, except most of the family won't have anything to do with her. So because she wanted a family like the Waltons, it is now my responsibility as a good son to give it to her.

I don't know how many times I have to explain to her - even if I did want kids, there's no guarantee that I'll ever get the chance to have them. She takes that as an insult, a betrayal, and that family means nothing to me. Well yes, it doesn't, because you told me that my Dad, my stepbrothers, my uncles, and cousins were not my family, she was. And now everyone on her side of the family has either died off or cut her out. So if that's what family is to you, then it's useless to me.

Sounds very similar to what i have there as well. My Nmom often complains i'm an egoist because i don't have kids, even going as far as telling me "look at me, i won't even be a grandmother because of you !" and trying to make me feel guilty about not letting her have that.

At some point i just told her even if i had kids, i would NEVER let her have them alone anyway. Of course she made as if she never heard that and once in a while, she keeps adding that to the gigantic mountain of all the stuff that makes me the worst person ever.

I'm relieved my Nmom never got the chance to be a grandma. I'm currently battling some inheritance issues from when Nmom died and GC got all; Ndad is lying and deceiving as in the past. He may never get the chance either and I'm ok with that.

Not just that. Recent studies on pregnancy have shown that the bodily changes that come with pregnancy can affect a woman and her body, even her DNA, brain structure, and telomeres, potentially for a lifetime. In some cases, it significantly affects a woman's very state of personality and existence. Changes are made to the brain's connections, rewiring them to make the mother-to-be more hyperaware, and connected, to her child(ren). (Source)

As an added note, the natural, extensive brain changes and "re-wirings" that come with pregnancy also probably account for extremely common reportings of postpartum depression after birth.

Approximately 70%- 80% of women will experience, at a minimum, the baby blues, and many more will experience the more severe condition of postpartum depression and its other subtypes...One study has found that postpartum depression rates in Asian countries could be at 65% or greater among new mothers.

Women with a history of depression or anxiety disorders, as well as serious mood disorders [affecting the brain], such as bipolar disorder, are 30%-35% more likely to develop postpartum depression.

[...] It is believed that 50% of women who develop postpartum depression actually began experiencing symptoms during pregnancy. This proves the case for early symptom-recognition, awareness and access to treatment.

While PPD can affect people of all backgrounds, low socioeconomic status, poverty and poor access to education and healthcare are thought to lead to a PPD rate of 25% among this population demographic. One study found that women with low socioeconomic status were 11 times more likely to develop PPD symptoms than women with higher socioeconomic statuses [and better access to prenatal care]. (Source)

Not just that. Recent studies on pregnancy have shown that the bodily changes that come with pregnancy can affect a woman and her body, even her DNA, brain structure, and telomeres, potentially for a lifetime. In some cases, it affects a woman's very state of personality and existence. Changes are made to the brain's connections, rewiring them to make the mother-to-be more hyperaware, and connected, to her child(ren). (Source)

Thank you SO much for this write up about the difficult, extremely challenging, and uncomfortable reality of PPD, including links to sources and statistics. It is a very important, very real, and very under discussed topic, and it shouldn't be swept under the rug or avoided no matter how uncomfortable it may make someone feel. It has most likely affected someone each of us knows, if not many. Please continue making these types of comments, I found it to be very informative. Parenting is hard. Life is hard. Knowing more about what we are dealing with and sharing that makes it easier.

This thread has been trimmed from here on down for derailing the OP, and because the comments got rather combative. There are other subreddits that are better suited for general discussion about having or not having children. This post was about a specific experience that the OP had with their abuser. Please focus on supporting the OP.

I have had baby blues after both. There are a lot of hormonal changes that occur in pregnancy and childbirth. I also have OCD and PTSD.

Still, can you not? We all have our own choices to make about whether to have children or not, and it should be made in consultation with a doctor and your partner, not from scare tactics on reddit and from people talking about how dangerous and awful pregnancy and childbearing are.

Even if you don’t mean it that way, it comes across as really judgmental, like I’m a crazy person for choosing it.

not from scare tactics on reddit and from people talking about how dangerous and awful pregnancy and childbearing are

So...sharing current science on the matter, and trying to inform people about recent discoveries and discussion by professionals in the medical field on the topic, is now "scare tactics"? How is trying to provide up-to-date research information, so that people can make fully informed decisions about their health, bodies, and life choices, "scare tactics"? That literally doesn't make any sense.

Nowhere in my post do I say anything but what my sources themselves state, and a quick Google search brings up a plethora of other articles that also back up what I said.

We all have our own choices to make about whether to have children or not, and it should be made in consultation with a doctor and your partner

Yes...and if you read the article I linked in-full, it explains that the aspects I brought up are often, if not almost always, completely omitted from doctors' consultation sessions with would-be parents.

This is likely because doctors feel that if they bring it up, and something bad happens, they could be potentially held legally accountable, or sued, simply for seeking to fully inform their patients. So, instead of informing their patients of the effects of pregnancy, often times, health providers simply omit what they feel the patient would not take well, also (sometimes) to protect themselves legally.

From one website on the matter:

Many people are shocked to learn that doctors and hospitals frequently fail to disclose important information to patients, sometimes intentionally. Sometimes the failure to disclose info relates to mistakes a doctor or hospital made, sometimes it’s about test results, and sometimes doctors are just trying to prevent needless worrying. However, if a patient is harmed or injured as a result of a doctor or hospital’s failure to communicate medical information, such as test results, then they may be liable for malpractice. (Source)

Case in point, my aunt had to spend several days in the ICU following heart failure after a high-risk pregnancy. She was informed that the pregnancy, due to her age and medical conditions, would be high-risk...and yet, she proceeded with it anyways. As she was warned would likely happen, she developed serious medical complications prior to, and after, the birth. These complications nearly led to her death.

In this case, informing a patient of all of the potential risks is not fear-mongering. It's fulfilling one's obligation as a medical professional in seeking to preserve, and protect, the life and health of patient.

Even if you don’t mean it that way, it comes across as really judgmental, like I’m a crazy person for choosing it.

No one is saying you are a "crazy person" for choosing to have children. Simply stating facts regarding a particular topic is not directed at you, personally, or anyone else, in any regards.

Yes...and if you read the article I linked in-full, it explains that the aspects I brought up are often, if not almost always, completely omitted from doctors' consultation sessions with would-be parents. This is likely because doctors feel that if they bring it up, and something bad happens, they could be potentially held legally accountable, or sued, simply for seeking to fully inform their patients.

Case in point, my aunt had to spend several days in the ICU following heart failure after a high-risk pregnancy. She was informed that the pregnancy, due to her age and medical conditions, would be high-risk...and yet, she proceeded with it anyways. As she was warned, she developed serious medical complications prior to, and after, the birth.

You linked to a law blog, which linked to a huffington post article, which linked to a journal but not the study. This is not “just providing the facts and current research on the matter.”

As I said - this decision should be made in consultation with medical professionals and the partner of the person in question. As someone who has personally had two children, I was informed of all the risks of the things that I chose, before, during, and after my pregnancies.

Furthermore, you are replying to a comment that deems pregnancy “incredibly dangerous” and spawning other comments that say things like “wow I guess I better adopt!” and are responded to with things like “that’s a wise decision.” These are all tacit judgments on people who have chosen to have children, whether you like it or not.

Actually, the fact that I am literally a post-partum mother who is experiencing hormonal “baby blues” (that is, mild post-partum depression) and I’m asking you to not lecture us all about how terrible having children is, and your response to that is not to listen and understand, but to rap my knuckles and lecture me further says a whole lot more about you than it does about me or parents in general.

Edit: I cannot fathom why I am being downvoted for pointing out that the “current scientific information” that this user is posting is actually linking to a rabbit hole of websites and doesn’t culminate in an actual study, or for asking simply for someone not to be judgmental about other people’s choices in a support subreddit.

Look, almost nobody talks about this side of it. Most people gloss over the heavy parts of pregnancy and paint it to be this magical, angelic experience that makes you a complete woman. In reality pregnancy and birth is metal as fuck, as I'm sure you'll be able to attest having done it.

Wanting people to be fully informed of the potential risks before they decide if they want to be pregnant is just good education. I'm thinking about having a kid someday and I want as much information as possible before I make a decision, especially the scary stuff. Telling it how it is isn't judgemental, it's informative.

I agree that it’s important to be well informed. I just think that the information should come from your personal OB/GYN when you are thinking about having a baby, not from some rando every single damn time the topic of pregnancy comes up. “Oh but did you know it’s SUPER dangerous and you’re going to get mental illness and die and doctors won’t tell you the risks?!? The wise and good decision is to adopt/be childfree/etc.” is not informative. It doesn’t know anything about you or your specific health conditions or anything about it. It just implicitly assumes that pregnancy = bad and people who do it are unwise at best.

Also OBGYNs don't always tell you everything, especially in America. Most of them don't even know about half of the epigenetic effects pregnancy has on the body, much less how to mitigate or treat them. I definitely don't want to have a kid in this country after learning how shit postpartum care actually is here, but that's also my own decision and doesn't have anything to do with what you're doing.

It's like how atheists who talk about why they're atheists get called intolerant by religious people just for talking about their lack of a need for god. If you're feeling defensive about your choices then maybe you should reexamine your reasons for making them.

Honestly, “if you’re feeling defensive about your choices” that line is something my nDad would say. Almost like “sorry if you got upset.” I cannot even begin to believe that someone is being upvoted for making that kind of snakey, backhanded comment in this subreddit.

Whatever, I’m done getting downvoted for saying very simply “maybe don’t be a dick about pregnancy and childbearing since some of us have actually done it” in a support subreddit.

No one said this. I think you may be interpreting these statements as personally condemning you, or you're reading them incorrectly. I didn't get any of that.

Also, above you say that it's a decision for your SO and your doctor if you want to have kids or not, and I don't think that's very accurate.

A woman can choose to be CF and she doesn't have to discuss her choice with a doctor. It's an insult to suggest it's a requirement to discuss your childbearing choices with a doctor, as you can imply from the comment that people who claim to be CF need mental help.

A woman can choose to be CF and she doesn’t have to discuss her choice with a doctor

I never suggested that someone has to discuss their choice not to have children with a doctor. My suggestion was 100% related to the health risks involved with having a baby and how if one is considering having a baby or has concerns about their fitness to do so, they should be in consultation with a doctor, not random redditors who link to law blogs that link to huffington post articles.

the comment that people who claim to be CF need mental help

Please screenshot where I said anything like this. I said that when people rant and rave about how dangerous and awful pregnancy and childbearing are, they make me feel like I am stupid/bad/crazy for doing it. I just asked that people not pile on this nasty attitude about having babies because some of us have actually had babies and we don’t need people lecturing about how terrible it is. That’s literally all I asked.

If you see rule-breaking content, hit the report button instead of engaging with other users in this manner. I suggest you step away from this thread and take a moment for self care. I have removed the entire thread, as it thoroughly derailed the OP. Please focus on supporting the OP in this subreddit.

From my experience, youd be making the right choice. I used to live with my nmom and sometimes she would have my nephew over for a few days at a time. She was a bit toxic for him. She would invalidate his emotions and compare him to his brother, saying "you dont want to be a little bitch like (his brother), do you??" He's 4. Eventually he would randomly have bursts of tears when seemingly nothing had happened, so hes clearly under emotional stress.

Yeah. At some point i had to inform my brother of what goes on when his son visits behind closed doors.

Only child of Nmom. She tried conditioning me to have kids from a very young age. Telling me i had to have kids with someone with dark hair and blue eyes so the genes would be carried down. Super creepy and only made me never want to have kids. Always told her, "if i do have kids they sure as hell won't be around you."

When I was a young teenager, I developed a friendship with a less than attractive girl. I genuinely jsut saw her as a good friend. She was extremely funny and intelligent, and I had a great time with her.

I remember, when she'd come round to my house, my dad would be extremely hostile towards her. Normally, he'd turn the charm up to max around any strangers or new people. So I found it very odd. Then he would start getting hostile towards me when I'd want to hang out with her.

At this point, I was only barely into puberty, and genuinely didn't see her in a sexual way, although I could identify she was far from attractive. One day, my dad said "If you get that girl pregnant, you're on your own. I'm not helping you raise ugly children."

I didn't even really understand sex at that point, and was completely baffled by the comment until years later. They don't want kids, they want someone else to show off

Ugh. My grandma was weird like that. Saying who I could and could not marry/have kids with/even be best friends with. Her big rules were nobody on the autism spectrum(wtf?), and nobody of color(yet TOTALLLLLYYY not racist! 🙄🙄🙄).

Too bad for her. Married someone on the spectrum, and absolutely inseperable besties with a person of color. Then again, she always did act like I was a rule breaker.

Ugh yes my Nmom is exactly like this. If I dated someone who wasn’t up to her standards she’d do everything in her power to destroy our relationship and would say “we have to improve our family line! Not taint it with the genes of someone who is of un-pure blood!”
Then she’d also automatically assume that I’d give her grandkids and she would say “you’re going to leave my grandkids with me when you need babysitting and they’re going to learn Spanish! And I’m going to spank them when they misbehave”
Looking back at all of it, i realize it was all extremely creepy. Glad I got away from her.

Why is the spanking part something she's looking forward to? She needs to fantasize about control and dominance? Or is it about parenting "the right way?" Wtf. What if they never did anything bad while she babysat?

She literally insisted that since I had a rebellious streak in me that my children were going to be inherently rebellious and that I wasn’t going to discipline them so she would have to step in and discipline them for me.

My boyfriends race is "white", but he inherited his dark skin colour from his grandma. My family is from mexico. When I told my NMom about my boyfriend she said :"Why dont you date a blond guy wiht blue eyes? You'll just ruin our bloodline with him."

Haha yeah my mother's line is Jewish but she was always telling me how we would have been fine in wwii cos we're 'Aryan' aka blonde. My brother is a huge ant-semite now too because she traumatised him so much.

Dude that's weird. My Nmom was married to a Jewish man before my dad. She would always say weird things like "you would be okay in the holocaust bc you have blue eyes" like what??? I was 10 who says that.

My mother cut off my contact with every family member I have because she believes they’re all corrupt and want to personally turn me against my mother & that they’re all disfunctional, liars, evil monsters, messed up, and just cause problems with/for everyone. I find that funny because she’s everything she labeled up there except for the fact that she’s trying to turn me again everyone else who actually has a heart. She says how she’s the only good one and that contacting them will ruin my life b/c they’re all messes. She just LOVES to smear everyone’s name. “I’m your mother and none of them love you! Only I love you! I’m the only one who truly cares about you!” Ha it’s such bullshit. My relatives are the kindest people I’ve ever met and I hope to be like them one day. They have genuine hearts & also very successful even though she is convinced all their money is dirty (stealing, deception). No, they’re just good people who do good and get good. They just want me to be happy and truly want the best for me. So I understand where you’re coming from with her having “no family.” I’m only 17, my birthday is next month. Obviously we have a big age gap between us but that doesn’t mean I’m ignorant. Have you considered going no contact with that bitch? She’s super selfish for that. It’s not her family’s fault that she has no one, even though she would like to think otherwise b/c she’s clearly a god who is never in the wrong. You don’t owe her a damn child.

Keep up with your family. Don’t let your mom’s business make it hard to keep in touch. My mom has also alienated her family, and since I didn’t personally make an effort independent from her to maintain my relationships with them, I don’t have them anymore.

My mother is the same. I'm the bad daughter for not having a boyfriend yet, for not giving her the grandchildren she craves (even though she already has three from my sister). Tried to marry me off to men thrice my age when I was younger, because she feared I would never be able to find someone by myself. That maybe the part where she's right, I can't find someone for myself, but that's no reason to try to sell me off like cattle. The way she treats me, I feel more like her property than her child.

It's funny in a sad way; she never taught me how to love or what love even is, yet I'm so full of love for others. I just wish she could have shown me what it felt like to be loved, because that's an experience I crave more than others.

Yes, I too feel the same way. I have puzzled for a long time about my tendency to shed a tear every time my family tell others that I go out on a limb for them. It makes me feels silly and ashamed, because I think that is me being proudful, and reading this sub make me realized that I cried because I long for someone to do the same for me. Well now I'm married and out of their life, I finally got what I wished for. So don't let her beat you down, don't expect love from your nmom. She, like my own, cannot give you that. Find someone who actually love you and care for you, and more importantly, love yourself. Good luck

Loving myself probably has been one of my biggest achievement because growing up, I absolutely hated myself. I mean, I still have self-loathing phases, but they are mostly centered around my appearance. Finding someone to love me is the far greater obstacle, it just doesn't work no matter how much effort I put into it. It's like my mother cursed me to be lonely, in a fit of jealousy.

Yeah, it's the same for me too. I never consider myself good looking, every time my wife says I'm beautiful I would answer, "Are you blind?" But to hell with looks. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. And sometimes you don't need any effort to find someone that was meant for you. Just relax and take your time. You're not your mother so you could improve and make yourself better. Even if you'll never found someone, it's better to spend your life enjoying things that you have than to regret something you don't have.

I'm so sorry too, I know how terrible it can be. My mother constantly tries to diagnoze everyone around her while she is the one with issues. I've told her a thousand time why I can't just simply find someone, but she never actually listens.

Oh jeez I'm sorry she tried to marry you off like that. Sounds like your mom should have been born in a different era (but thankfully you weren't!) What a shame that she only sees value in you in such a traditional and shallow way.

She likes to control the lifes of her children, and then act like she'd support us with anything, which isn't true. When I wanted to study abroad she freaked out, so she had me stay. I'm only as much worth as I can give prestige and money to the family. Funny enough, we're from a very rich and free country, yet she gets away with it because she is my biological mother.

I've told her time and time again I don't want children. She knows this. Then on Mother's Day when I stopped by, I was gushing about my cats and she says, "you'll feel the same way when you finally have kids one day."

Alcoholism, substance abuse and depression run through both sides of my family, let alone general family dysfunction. I'll be damned if I create a new life with a blank slate and put them through that too.

That’s perfect. That’s why I never had kids - well that and I didn’t want to raise any kids the way she raised me. Her way was all I knew when I was biologically able to have kids and no way in hell I was putting anybody else through that. Now I’m old enough to not have to worry about it.

OMG, that statement so hits home with me. I recently went off on my daughter's MiL, who was pushing her to have a second child, despite the fact that she's been out of work for several months and she lives in a 2-bedroom apartment with her husband and their 4-year-old daughter. This same woman regularly shames our 4-year-old granddaughter in attempts to control her behavior. I intend to start recording her in the act if I can develop the ability to do so effectively. I'm thinking the first time I'll send it out to the family, and threaten to post on Facebook if it happens again. Because hell, if she thinks this is an appropriate way to behave toward her granddaughter, she shouldn't have a problem with it becoming public, right? And if she's going to shame my granddaughter, I'm damn well going to shame her. And she wants another grandchild? She really wants a legacy of destruction...

A child is a huge responsibility - one that ultimately falls on the parents/guardians, no matter how much help they can count on from others. For anyone to insist that another person should take on that responsibility when that other person does not feel ready to do so is an egregious overstepping of boundaries!

My wife and I have to consider ivf, and one night when her parents took us out to dinner her mother threw a public fit because we might not be able to have any. Between my parents and hers, the N runs deep

My Nmom used to rave about how much she wanted grandkids (even put in a request for boy girl twins). When we told her we were attempting to do IVF because we were infertile she went on a huge rant about how kids weren’t everything. I think it was her way of preparing herself for the possibility that she might not have any grandkids.

Wow the Ns really are never happy. Ivf ain't no trivial thing. They get mad at people for not wanting kids, for not trying hard enough, and then when you DO try hard enough like through IVF they still aren't happy!!

Seems like they just want to believe they have superior genetics or something. Ugh.

My parents (and probably in-law’s) saw being infertile as being defective. We’re supposed to be perfect creatures that come from their loins so us being infertile is a slap in their face at their superiority. We should be able to make babies the normal way, not rely on science.

We decided not to do ivf but I wonder if my nmum would have thought the same, she was always telling me how evil ivf was as I was growing up.
Mine just came to the conclusion I was somehow killing my babies in the womb, like by exercising too much or by releasing my killer t-cells onto them (towards the end of my relationship she actually did use the word 'killing' to describe my miscarriages/infertility so I'm fairly sure she'd come to the conclusion I was purposely doing it).

I’m sorry your mom was so ignorant about infertility. My mom told me I was most likely genetically incompatible with my husband after our third transfer resulted in a fetus with chromosome abnormalities and heart defect. That combined with a few other things she said immediately before and after resulted in me going no contact with her. Battling infertility without support was already hard enough. We don’t need the effing guilt trips on top of it.

My mom was not very subtle on wanting grandkids and tried from grade school on to get my sister and I into the idea. Like, she was actually getting pushy when I was in high school, and accused me on my 16th birthday of being gay since I had never had a boyfriend. Then, when my future husband and I had a slip up and had a baby some years later, she strutted like the proudest peacock. Not even a year after, she was hounding us for more. We were both very young with shitty retail jobs and no extended education, but she "knew" we could wing it so we could just keep having them...if not, we could always live with her. Hard. Pass.

I'm still not entirely unconvinced that she didn't have a voodoo doll of my uterus somewhere.

My mother is the same. I'm the bad daughter for not having a boyfriend yet, for not giving her the grandchildren she craves (even though she already has three from my sister). Tried to marry me off to men thrice my age when I was younger, because she feared I would never be able to find someone by myself. That maybe the part where she's right, I can't find someone for myself, but that's no reason to try to sell me off like cattle. The way she treats me, I feel more like her property than her child.

Lol my mom loves to brag about being a grandma... Except she told my older brother to get bent for wanting a relationship with his dad and consequently hasn't seen her grandkids in over 5 years. She's never going to meet my new baby either so.... Why claim the title? Why do Ns even want grandkids? To fuck them up too?

They blame you no matter what... I tried to have kids and had miscarriages/infertility, she blamed me. Then just before i cut her off, she was being really nasty to me and dh, and she was all "sorry but you have to understand it's so hard for me not to have any grand children" as though that excused it.

Now that I am old and lonely I need to convince you to have a couple of grandchildren I can then ingratiate myself to so as to allow me to continue to manipulate your behavior via my hold on them and social pressures to help grandparents spend time with grandchildren. You have been showing too many signs of independence what with your getting older, branching out into jobs and social situations where I am not welcomed so as to allow me to manipulate you and the view of others around you of you for my own pleasure and enjoyment.

Or at least that's what I eventually realized my N's desire for grandchildren really represented. Certainly never offered to babysit or even come to my home to see them. There was always some excuse why I needed to drive them to see her and be present to handle any actual care they might need. I might never have realized until I saw her actually insisting she babysit while my GC brother and his wife worked.

My NM is happy she's getting grandkids through my brother, she already has one through my sister but sadly my niece was born when she still wanted to pretend to be young and my sister doesn't have anything to do with NM either so she pissed on that relationship the same way she will with my brothers' twin boys.

Grandkids are just another generation to hurt and alienate. They don't deserve them.

You know I’ve actually never heard it put this way. That’s pretty great. Usually I say something like “And I want to be a helicopter pilot but some dreams don’t come true.” Or “Because you had so much fun the first time around?” in response to “I want grandkids/when are you giving me grandkids/I want to be a grandparent.”

That's a truth that I think is simply underappreciated. It's not an easy truth to live with and believing it is probably less likely to get you where you wanna be, but it's a simple and universal one:

"It just doesn't happen for everybody."

Getting a partner, having the job of your dreams, buying a house, having that dream job, becoming a superstar, having a big family, retiring with a boat. All of these things that we put in our script to live the rest of our lives - it just doesn't happen for everybody. Including having grandchildren, which is definitely not something you have control of.

Mine asked me when I must have been <17 because I wasn't kicked out yet "When she was getting grandchildren"

Like ??????

She really would have and would like me better as a single parent with no goals or future.

She really didn't like me from 11-22ish but now she's backed down and softened herself towards me. I don't know what it was (but I have theories), I don't particularly like it because she's extremely needy and draining and there's no way I'm getting close to her again because I know how she treats those she is close to. Wish she'd do what she said she wanted when I was 12ish which was to be estranged.

She's only dropped hints since then but if she keeps up with abusing pain pills and drinking and smoking who knows if she's actually going to meet any kids I might be able to afford in a decade or so.

I have chosen not to have children. My NM acts like I'm a freak of nature, like I'll "cave in" and have kids, she thinks I'm a liar and that I DO want kids but am tormenting her... she once told me that I was worthless and that "at least if you'd been a teen mom, you'd be WORTH something". My only value to her is my reproductive parts. To make HER grandchildren.
She's not the only thing that's influenced my decision to not have kids - but she's a large part of it.

I do not understand the mentality of telling your adult children they NEED to give you grandchildren or constantly harassing you. I like my boyfriend's mother very much and this is my only issue with her but him and I have only been together 3 years and just moved in, are not married (not that it's required to be married to have kids but I guess I'd at least expect this level of harassment if we were married, sad as that is) and have made it clear that we are not planning on having kids, at least not any time soon. I can't even talk with her about my toddler niece (or things I'm excited to do with her) that I adore without her saying stuff like "well that could be your own child but noooo." Yup, the way to get someone to change their mind is to bitch at them about it constantly. Works every time /s

My nGrandmother used me in little power plays against my nMother--like cutting my hair right before the first week of kindergarten, after my mom told her not to. Or having my mom leave me in the car while they picked out tile, because grandmother didn't want to put up with me.

When the kid gets bigger, you can use them as a source of information about the parent. You can also have fun shattering their perception of their parent--"oh, you think your mom tells you everything? Did she tell you about blah?"

Grandkids are also an 'in' back into a relationship with their parents--"I know we've never seen eye-to-eye, but surely you won't keep my grandkids from me?"

I never wanted kids, I fucking hate kids but ended up pregnant anyway. I love my kid, but knowing that my NMom got exactly what she wanted eats at my soul a bit and everyone has the audacity to shame me for not wanting more. She wants to see him only when it's convenient for her, and I've gotten maybe 12 hours of baby free time since he was born over a year ago. At leasts it's helped me suss out other problem relatives, my grandma actually made a joke about holding me down in order to have more kids...my family sucks

You know, honestly, I looked at this another way. I think I would be an amazing grandmother. I probably won't have children. I fully believe you can, however, fulfill that role regardless, for a kid who doesn't have someone like that in their life or would just be happy to have another. And in my opinion, that's just as important a relationship.

For the longest time I didn’t want children because of how much of a burden my mom made me feel I was to her.

Now that I have children it was a huge eye opener. I was a pet. Someone she needed to heal her own pain of giving up her children (6 and 4 when she adopted me) to their father. I was overfed - pictures of me next to my babies at the same age, it’s shocking. One day I might have the balls to share but I was twice the baby they were, and my obesity chased me into adulthood, where I finally found low carb life, and realized I’ve been eating processed microwaveable food and that isn’t normal and it’s not normal to leave your child at home for hours on end. I wouldn’t even mind if she was just working hard but she was also partying whenever she had time off.

God I hate that she always makes me so incredulous every time I think about it.

I hear you, I'm in a similar position. My Nmom has made a religion out of her family of origin - worshipping them, enabling them, talking about how much better they are than everyone else.... and I'm the end of the line (only child) and I'm going to end her family line too. HA.

Haha! My step mom once sent me a letter to the address they knew (my ex's). Him and I were and still are on excellent terms, so he forwarded it to me, as I had gone abroad by then.
She was begging me to get back in touch and bemoaning that she'd never get to raise my children.
B**** wake up! When I was with my ex they didn't even want to meet him or acknowledge him when he was in the room, and all of a sudden you're expecting that I'm making children with him?
If she'd bothered to know me, she'd know that I never, ever wanted kids.
I shared a laugh with my ex, never replied, never heard back from her. That was 5 years ago. I wonder if she thinks I'm with a five year old in tow... if I were she'd never hear about it.

Wow, my mom never came out and said my dad and his family weren't my family and that she is, but that's exactly how she acted. Instead she would tell us all about how much better they treated our cousins and things like that. I'm not even getting into the horrible things she said about my dad, but bless him for never speaking an ill word about her.

But she also never stressed the importance of family, she moved (literally) from one coast to the other to get away from them. I think for her, it was more like we didn't need family bc she didn't have one. We were all she had, so she wanted to be all we had, too.

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