We had been told until the start of this year that we were in a zone 6. So, we could not figure out why our grapes kept dying down to the soil level every 5 to 10 years. Now that we know we are in a zone 5 I'm going to start covering them up the same time we start covering up the figs.

We have as grapes, Swenson's Red, Seedless Concord, Golden Muscat, Vanessa, New York Muscat, Neptune, Seneca, and a few more that I can no longer remember the names of. That's because for one reason or the other they never did well. I think most of them did not do well because when we planted them, we thought we were in a zone 6.

The best producers in the last 20 to 30 years has been Golden Muscat, Seedless Concord, and Swenson's Red.

Strivefor freedom, what state are you in, and can you tell us something about Bella. Such as when does it ripen and it's flavor profile?

The Osage root stock we have has a lot thorns, and the Che that is grafted on it, also has a lot of thorns.

Bill were did you get your Che"

I'm looking for Che grafting scions from different sources to purchase. Ones that may be bigger then what we have and ripen earlier.

The one we have, ripens late October in a zone 5 Connecticut location I think the one we have cam from One Green World, some time back. The Che part is maybe 10 feet tall. The Osage that has sent up sprouts from below the graft could be maybe 10 to 15 feet

Bill, I have a twenty year old or so tree. It is the rootstock for a our Che tree.

It sent out a branch on the root stock some time ago, and I never got around to cutting it off.

Was not aware of the fact that dogwood could be grafted to it. I think I will try to graft some edible dog wood to it next year, since it is said to root so easily. We have problems with dog wood borers here, and it look like maybe that would solve the problem of having edible dog wood finally get large enough for good amounts of fruit, then to become killed by dog wood.

I heard that it an also can be used for grafting figs. I wonder if it would increase the cold hardiness of figs like Hanc's English Brown Turkey, or Marseilles Black VS?

Can any one else provide any more information about Osage Orange being used as root stock for dog wood?

Kerry, I see no reason why your in ground Florea will not prosper, where you have it planted.

We are in a zone 5 also, and a lot of our plants are not as cold hardy as Florea. But, we have plants that have been in the ground for over five years.

Also, a lot figs over two years. All covered like you did with your Florea, and we have never lost a plant.

It does indeed help in selling figs when potential customers see how big some of our figs have gotten. Some are 8 to 10 feet high.

We have had people who have driven 50 miles just to see the plants that they had heard about.

I'm glad to hear that you think the Florea is good tasting. With Herman saying it did not taste as good as some of his other fig, that kept us from planting one,

But, I think there are three figs that that should survive and prosper in a zone 5. That is Marseilles Black VS, Hanc Mathies's English Brown Turkey, and LaRadek's English Brown Turkey. I also think that if one of these are planted up against a warmed southern wall, they might even go through the winter without any winter protection.

From the research that we have been to come up with, all three have survived temperatures as low as minus 18 to minus 19 degrees Fahrenheit.

About three years ago, i chip budded 10 Swenson's Reds to wild grape vines in my orchard. All ten took.But, I later killed 9 of them with different experiments. One bud survived my experimenting and prospered

The Swenson's Red chip graft, fruited in it's third year, with about two pounds of grapes.

I used dormant scions and chip budded around the first of June

This appears to be an excellent way to take advantage of wild grapes that may be growing in your area. Plus, it gives a large heavy bearing vine in it's fourth year.

I also planted a Neptune and a Jupiter vine the same year I did the chip budding. Those two plants are barely three feet. While the Swenson's Red is now a very large vine.

That is about the same information I came up with while researching, the English Brown Turkey figs.

Although the main crop is out standing, I'm wondering if maybe the English Brown Turkey figs should only be grown in the north, for their breba crop. Since I have not been able to locate any one in the north, who does not have the problem of ending up with half the main crop still green, when frost comes.

Herman, since you have had a chance to grow and taste both Sweet George, and Violetta Bayernfeige, Do you think they taste the same.

I have not tasted Sweet George yet. I have had a chance to taste Violetta Bayernfeige. I found it to be both very sweet and very juicy. This was in the plants third year in the ground here. The first two years it either did not bear or the fruit was not very good tasting.

But, in it's third year it was very good.

So, the reason why I'm asking you for your opinion on the taste of Sweet George compared to Violetta Bayernfeige, is that I'm wondering if they are so close in taste that having one is the same as having both, as far as taste is concerned.

Also, Our Violetta was the only plant to have half of it's fruit still on the plant when frost came. Which makes me think this plant may be only good in cool summer areas like New England, if one grows it only for its breba crop. Which are huge in size. The first breba fruit we picked was 150gm, and other dozen or so were all over 100 grams.

We have not been testing it long enough to have all the answers. I do know it has both disappointed and pleased us.

As to it's cold hardiness, not sure since we bend it to the ground, and cover with soil and layer of insulation, to keep it dry. We will test to see if we can grow it without winter protection, after it has been in the ground for five years.Then maybe we can give more information as to how it performs. But, that would only be for our part of CT..

So far, what we know is that the first two years here, it was no fruit or bad tasting fruit.

The fruit can be as large as 150 grams for the breba, and as small as 20 grams, on some of the main crop. It's pulp reminds me of the juice in a jar of canned figs. It's that sweet and juicy. But, because the pulp is so juicy and sweet, and the skin is as thin as tissue, flies covered the ripe fruit.

The only place I have seen it for sale is at Whitman Farms, on the west coast. I think that might be because it has a patent on it. Lucile Whitman had to bring in fifty plants. Just so she could ship to us two plants.

This may be one of those hit or miss plants. Were some of us will have good luck with it and others not so good.

Herman, told me he rated the braba crop as a 10. But, he lost his plant to FMV. Then Gorgi says his plant was killed to the ground and he does not want it back.

So,I guess it's going to take some time before we can give a complete report on it.

We have not been testing it long enough to have all the answers. I do know it has both disappointed and pleased us.

As to it's cold hardiness, not sure since we bend it to the ground, and cover with soil and layer of insulation, to keep it dry. We will test to see if we can grow it without winter protection, after it has been in the ground for five years.Then maybe we can give more information as to how it performs. But, that would only be for our part of CT..

So far, what we know is that the first two years here, it was no fruit or bad tasting fruit.

The fruit can be as large as 150 grams for the breba, and as small as 20 grams, on some of the main crop. It's pulp reminds me of the juice in a jar of canned figs. It's that sweet and juicy. But, because the pulp is so juicy and sweet, and the skin is as thin as tissue, flies covered the ripe fruit.

The only place I have seen it for sale is at Whitman Farms, on the west coast. I think that might be because it has a patent on it. Lucile Whitman had to bring in fifty plants. Just so she could ship to us two plants.

This may be one of those hit or miss plants. Were some of us will have good luck with it and others not so good.

Herman, told me he rated the braba crop as a 10. But, he lost his plant to FMV. Then Gorgi says his plant was killed to the ground and he does not want it back.

So,I guess it's going to take some time before we can give a complete report on it.

Have been picking ripe Violetta Bayernfeige now since October, here in Connecticut.

This fig was on our,"To be replaced list". In fact we had already top worked part of it to Gino's, and Ronde de Bordeaux. It did not bear it's first year in the ground. It's second year it's taste was nothing special.

This year, it's breba crop was okay. But, we had better tasting figs. Then it started to bear it's main crop of figs, in October. It had started to cool down here and had been raining most of the summer. So, we were not expecting much.

But, were we surprised. In October through today, 11-13-2011. This tree started producing the most juicy and sweetest figs I have ever tasted. In fact, The sweetness level was so high, it attracted hundreds of flies. I think one of the reasons why flies are so attracted to it is, mot only is it very sweet, it is also very juicy,The flies were the second surprise, and we were not prepared for the shear number of flies devouring each fig on the tree.

Next year, we will look for a bird/insect netting long before the figs start to ripen, and we may decide not to keep the breba crop. That may avoid having so many unripe fig to be left on the tree.

This is a very sweet fig so late in the season. I just picked three today, 11-13-2011. There were no leaves left on the tree from the hard freeze we received in the early part of November. Although, not as Sweet as they were in October, they were still very sweet tasting figs.

So, far the only negative I have observed is the sweetness level draws tons of flies and almost half the figs are still on the tree. This may have been caused because we allowed the breba crop to set, and we had a very early hard freeze.

If we can figure out how to keep the flies away, and to avoid having so many green figs left on the tree,we may keep this cultivar for it's super sweet taste and size.

We purchased our tree from Lucile Whitman at Whitman farms on the west coast. A very nice lady to do business with.

Luke, we have 13 trees planted in ground. A six year old Hardy Chicago. A three year old Violetta Bayernfeige.Two year old Marseilles Black VS, Ronde de Bordeaux, Sal's Corleone, Hardy Hartford, and Brooklyn White

In ground now for one winter Danny's Delight. Sal's EL, and Kathleen's Black.

We are still picking Sal's EL and Violetta Bayernfeige.

We have more that will go in the ground this fall.

Although we have only tasted about a dozen or so different figs. So far for us, the best tasting figs, this far north have been Hardy Hartford and Sal's EL

Sal's EL seems to be able to ripen during the cool days of October and still have very sweet tasting figs. It seems to be their ability to dry on the bush. Plus, for us it has only taken a couple days after a October rain storm for them to start to dry out again. They are the closest we have to almost having the taste of dried dates.

Violetta Bayernfeige is still loaded with ripening fruit, that taste like some kind of tropical fruit taste.

All of our trees are bent to the ground and covered with soil. Then we cover the soil with aluminum insulation to for more protection and to keep the soil dry.

Kerry, from the weather research I was able to do, Marseilles Black VS originated in Columbia, Maryland.

And a few years just before Warren Turner took cuttings, Columbia, Maryland experienced a winter low of around minus 18 degrees Fahrenheit. Although, I was never able to confirm whether or not the top growth was killed, we do know the tree survived. Because a few years after that big freeze there, Warren sent cuttings to Herman.

So, I'm thinking there is a possibility that Marseilles Black VS might be even more cold hardy then Florea

We have three in ground trees here in Connecticut, zone 5. They have only been in ground now for 2 winters, and we will be bending them to the ground and burying them for the first five years. after that we will start leaving them unprotected, to see if they can handle our zone 5 winters.

If, you ever decide to test Marseilles Black in ground there in New Hampshire, please keep us posted, as to how well it does each winter.

We have eaten maybe a half dozen or so main crop Violetta Bayernfeige, this middle of October. It looks like maybe it put on about fifty main crop it's third year in the ground.

Considering they did no have much flavor last year. Which was their first fruiting year.

This year both the breba crop and the main crop were very good. In fact I would say the main crop had a better taste then the breba.

Herman, rates the Main crop of Violetta a 10. But, he says the main crop is not as good as the breba.

Herman, is it possible that your main crop did not taste as well as it could because your tree was starting to succumb to FMV?

The weather fore caster indicated rain for today. So, we picked those that appear to be almost ready, and held them over night wrapped in paper towel. We had them for breakfast. They were very very good.

Had been planning on replacing this tree. But, it is a keeper for sure.

10-11-2011. Was able to taste test today more then just one fig a day of Bayernfeige Violetta.

Surprised that we still have good tasting figs this late in the year.

Bayernfeige Violetta was a big disappointment it's first year of fruiting, for us, 2010.

There was so much talk about it when we bought it back in 2009. That I was expecting a really great tasting fig. It's first year, it was so bad that I was thinking about replacing it.

But, Herman had posted that the breba was a 10. So, I decided to keep it one more year, to test the breba. They were huge, Maybe 150 grams or so, Not really great tasting. But, kept me from cutting it down,

Then it set about 50 main crop figs. They have just started to ripen here in Connecticut, We have had 4 days now without rain, For a big fig I'm impressed with it's flavor

I had already chip budded Gino's and Ronde de Bordeaux to it. It's about 8 to 10 feet tall in it's third year. A strong grower.

A lot o people have been saying that Violetta is just a Brown Turkey. But, I don't

think they have tasted a Violetta yet.

We also, were able to taste test more Danny's Delight today and they were a lot better then the first one. It too is a keeper.

So taste tested the following; Hardy Chicago, Hardy Hartford, Marseilles Black VS, Sal's EL, and Danny's Delight. It has been raining here since August 8th., and only stopped three days ago. So, was surprise that it only took three days of nice weather to bring the figs to the point were they were once again good tasting

9-08-2011 Hardy Hartford -About the same size as Marseilles Black, this year. But, to my taste buds taste better then Marseilles Black VS. But, don't think it will be as cold hardy as Marseilles Black VS

9-11-2011 Marseilles Black VS - reliable producer even in shade

9-15-2011 Sal's EL - Sweetest

10-2-2011 Hardy Chicago - Best tasting if allowed to dry on tree. But seems to be a shy bearer, only about 20 figs on a 8 foot tall tree, and three figs on a three foot tree. Will top work it next year, If I can find some one who has a more productive clone of Hardy Chicago.

10-4-2011 Bayenfeige Violetta - Large size fruit with heavy crop. So far it appears for it's size alone, it might be a good commercial fig for areas south of zone 5. In late October Violetta Bayernfeige's main crop became as sweet as fig syrup. This was a big surprise since it had to ripen during cooler weather. It has pushed Sale's EL out of first place for sweetness. But, this has caused a unexpected problem with flies. Along with the increased sweetness, the fruit has become extremly juicy. Almost to the point were one could drink the pulp with a straw. By the time we noticed there was going to be a fly problem, there were hundreds of flies all over the fruit. We most have caught several hundred on fly paper, before frost started to reduce their numbers. This surprise increase in sweetness in late October, early November has saved this tree from being replaced. So, as it stands right now we will keep this tree just for the super sweet fruit in the fall. We had a early freeze this year, and half the fruit did not ripen. So can't tell yet whether or not this will be a big problem every, yet. Also, if the sweetness draws this heavy infestation of flies each fall, one will have to cover the tree/bush with some type of insect barrier.

10-8-2011 Danny's Delight - Variable in fruit size. Ripe enough to pick, But, will wait and see if it can be dried on tree. Our weather forecast calls for a up coming week of high 70 to 80 degrees.

Started raining here around August 8th, and with heavy rains every week, up to just a couple days ago. So any of the above figs picked the last two months was full of water. Except for one Hardy Hartford that was was next to a over hang, from the house. Although soaked with water none of the above soured.

I got a chance to taste our main crop of Violetta Bayernfeigen today, also.

I agree with you as to the taste. The breba was much better, That is before the rains started.Once the rains started, it turn to mush.

However the main crop taste a lot better then the rest of out figs, considering, it to got flooded with rain.

Last year, I was ready to get rid of it, and had already started top working it over to Ronde de Bordeaux, and Gino's.

So far, it's starting to look like maybe it would be a good commercial fig for the Northeast. It puts out a good sizable crop. Plus, the individual figs are good size, and I think even though it ripened during a long rainy period, it still taste better then anything else we have. Or what is in the market, at this time.

We are in the eastern part of Connecticut. A zone 5. Our Violetta put out a good breba crop. Which was good until the rainy weather started. Have not picked any of the main crop figs, yet. But, will test them tomorrow.

Herman tells me he lost his original to FMV after having it for a few years. It looks like it could be a good commercial fig. Since the fig is a good size, and it seems to bear a lot of main crop figs.

We only got about a dozen breba. But, I think that might have been because I did know at the time that breba fruits were formed in November, and I was removing all green new figs starting in August going through maybe November the 15th.

I started about 15 green wood cuttings around September the 6. About 1/3 have developed the beginning of roots and or small leaves.

I placed them together in a wide mouth jar until the leaf stems fell off. Then they were placed individually into green small neck beer bottles. The bottles were placed in direct sun light, and the water is changed once a day.

So far, there has not been any problems with mold or cuttings drying out.

Well, drying on the tree does indeed make for a super good tasting fig.

But, with all the rain we have been having on the east coast, it would be really nice to have a fig that would do that, even after being soaked from rain.

My Marseilles Black VS, where just starting to ripen a lot of figs at the same time. Then the rain started. Went out this morning to see if anything was worth saving. Sal's EL was splitting even on semi ripe figs. Surprise to have been able able to pick some water logged Marseilles Black VS, that were actually sweet and not sour. Even though they were swollen big from soaking up all that water.

Which made me wonder whether or not any one has had luck drying water logged figs. Or at least used a dehydrator to remove the excess water??????.

Martin, your picture of the leaves of your Sal's EL, looks exactly like the leaves on my Sal's EL. The lobes on the right and left of each leaf are a lot closer to the center lope.

But, on 71GTO's leaf the right and left lobes are farther away from the center lobe.

I don't have Herman's expertise on being able to identify different cultivars. So, maybe his right. But, to my eye, that's what appears to make 71GTO's fig different from my Sal's EL, and of course because his in ground fig has ripened way ahead of my potted Sal's EL.???????????????

I'm not sure that 71GTO's is Sal's EL. My Sal's EL came straight from Gene Hosey. I have one in the ground and one in a pot. Neither one has fruit that is ripe, yet??

I know that 71GTO's plant is in New Hersey, in the ground, and I'm in Connecticut. So, we are going to be behind him in getting the same fruit ripe here. But, at least my potted Sal's EL that came directly from Gene Hosey, should have ripe fruits, if they were the same Sal's EL.

So, I'm thinking that either I don't have a true Sal's EL from Gene Hosey, or 71GTO's is not a Sal's EL??

Or, because 71GTO's plant is, I believe he said five years old, produces earlier then my going on two year old potted plant? Nor do the leaves on my Sal's EL look anything like 71GTO's Sal's????

Herman, when I got my Kathleen's Black from the person who found the tree. it had absolutely no FMV, what so ever. Or at least I could not detect any by looking at the leaves.

It came in bare rooted spring of 2010. I potted it up into a 5 gallon pot. It stayed in that pot until November of 2010. I then planted it in ground in November of 2010. and bent it to the ground and cover it with dirt.

It was planed about 7 feet from a Poplar tree stump that had started to dissolve into the soil.

When I uncovered the plant spring of 2011 it had suffered over 50 percent winter cold damage. I pruned off all the dead branches, and it grew back, very fast. But, the leaves grew back with heavy FMV in the leaves.

So, I'm wondering now if the winter cold possibly activated the dormant FMV in the plant. Or did the plant pick up the virus from the rotting poplar tree roots.

It's the only cultivar out of a dozen or so that has FMV, besides Sal's EL. Sal's EL, came from the same collector that we got our Kathleen's Black from. The Sal's EL started showing showing strong signs of FMV as soon as it rooted.

But, we planted it anyways, because we had been told by growers in our area that it was the gold standard for cold hardiness in our area. It was planted fall of 2010. As of this year the first of September, 2011, It is one of the most healthy looking plants we have. Even though like Kathleen's Black, it suffered about 50 percent winter cold damage.

At first I thought maybe the FMV was coming from the poplar decaying roots. But the Sal's EL is planted next to the decaying root system of a large ash tree.

I'm starting to wonder whether or not all figs carry the FMV. and if the plant is stressed or something, the virus gets a chance to take hold, like a cold virus in humans. But, some humans throw off the cold virus so fast they never knew they had it. While others become sick with it.

If you were to look at the Sal's EL right now you will have a difficult time spotting any FMV symptoms. But, with The Kathleen's Black plant you can spot it right away.

Has any one else noticed a correlation between winter cold damage and the FMV showing up in a particular cultivar, and then not showing symptoms once the plant starts growing vigorously again???????????????????

Jason, I posted picture of Hardy Hartford fruit and leaf last year If you did not see them, let me know and I will email the pictures to you.

This year we have about 45 fruit on two trees. The in ground plant has around 30, and the in pot plant has about 14.

The in ground plant has not started ripening. The potted plant started ripening around the middle of August. The same time as Marseilles Black VS. In Hardy Hartford's first year i ground. it beat Marseilles Black VS in ripening, by 3 to 5 days. This year Marseilles Black VS beat Hardy Hartford by about 3 days.

The first year it ripened, Hardy Hartford had a figgy flavor. This year it's flavor is closer to Marseilles Black VS.

We sent cuttings out to about 20-30 collectors. But, so far no one has been able to identify it.

It appears to be maybe from the same family as Hardy Chicago. But, ripens earlier along with Marseilles Black VS. I do not think Hardy Hartford will be as cold hardy as Marseilles Black VS. But, It's being grown in Hartford, CT. without any winter protection.

71GTO, I'm impress that your plant had very little winter damage it's first winter in ground without any protection. Did the guy you bought your plant from say how long he had been growing the original tree in hos present location?

Brent, I would say that Sal's EL is a good selection, if your looking for cold hardiness, and sweetness.

We are in one of Connecticut's cold areas, zone 5, and Sal's EL was cold tested about 30 miles north of us in another cold part of Connecticut, by Paul Tracesky in the 90's.

We have been told that after testing, Paul only kept one fig from his test plot, and that was Sal's EL.

It's considered the gold standard for our area. As to it being a good selection for marketing I don't know. I guess it will depend on how much flavor it has prior to being tree ripe. We put one in the ground last fall. So, our tree has not ripened this year.

We find it to be a very healthy, strong grower, with dark green leaves. We also have several in pots, of varying sizes.

I would think a selection for market would need to be cold hardy, and not need winter protection. Become tasty before it becomes tree ripe, to avoid becoming mush before you can get them to your customers. Also, it should produce a lot of fruit without the taste, sweetness, and flavor being diluted. I would think having large fruit would also help.

I noticed in your list you did not have Marseilles Black VS. If I were to attempt growing figs for a market, I would think about planting that one.

Mother tree has taken cold down to minus 18 degrees Fahrenheit, and survived.

It has been reported producing as many as 200 fruits on a three year old tree. and is easy to grow.

The only draw back I can see with it, is it might be to small for the consumer. But, because it is so early the consumer may not care about size that early in the season.

You may want to consider contacting Bass in Pennsylvania, Herman2, and Gorgi. They all have tested many figs in this area of the country.

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