Does the Biblical God exist? Possibly.

Opening Argument

I've got a pretty good idea. Enough to not blindly accept atheism as fact.James GatesThe Beasthttps://www.facebook.com/The-Beast-is-Strong-in-This-One-273041423117102/All of these things will be true in the end according to the Bible.1)Israel exists.2)Egypt exists still but with its former power ceasing to exist.3)Syria exists.4)Damascus exists and is reduced to rubble.5)The beast system emerges. Islam literaly claims to be the beast system in its eschatology, and no one knew this outside the Muslim world until the Internet and 9/11.6)The gospel goes worldwide, and then begins a sharp decline into secularism.7)Homosexuality becomes normal and accepted.8)It is depicted as all manifesting rather rapidly in sequence.God couldn't have handed it to us on a more silver platter, so it might seem.

Status: Open Debate

Arguments

Actually, the Bible doesn't explicitly make any of these claims. Human interpretation of the Bible is how these claims have come to be. As to the proposition, the god of the Bible is logically impossible and cannot exist as described in the Bible. For example, an immortal being cannot die...and yet, Jesus is said to have died. This is incoherent.

One’s belief in God is a personal
reality and is part of the social thread running through most civil societies.

My thoughts on the subject, “Does the
Biblical God exist” will one day, perhaps, science will be able to answer. Until
then, we have to wait for science to evolve where unequivocally the answer is
indisputable.

For example, during the seventeenth
century, how would one who believes in the existence of radio waves use the scientific
tools of the day to empirically demonstrate its existence?

Today our elite physicists are spinning
over many theories (belief) in “dark matter,” yet they lack the scientific
tools to empirically demonstrate which theory is correct, if any.

In general, we are a product of the
physical laws of nature and by the property of omnipotence, trapped within its
matrix, there are no exceptions. The constructal
flow of humanity through this matrix gave rise to philosophy, the taming of
fire, the scientific method, having freedom to seek the path of least
resistance in human evolution providing greater access to the pedagogic
currents of nature.

Very true, God is based on faith. As for science relative to “the
imagination of man,” it is all about the imagination of man using science to
fly, live and breathe under water, walk on the moon, etc. Perhaps, the
imagination of man using science will one day unequivocally answer the God
question. Until then, it is a leap of faith, or a dialectic, in the development
of one’s philosophy about the origin of this awesome machinery of
nature until the evolution of science provides the indisputable incarnation
thereof.

That is, since there is a dispute on said
subject, confirms science is yet able to solve the mystery of events before the
big bang. There are many theories, and on that note, just another set of
beliefs.

This debate is not about the existence of an ill-defined unknowable god, but the god of the Bible whom much is claimed which science can weigh in on. The Christian god is said to have wiped out Sodom and Gomorrah with fire and brimstone, caused a global flood, and the death of many first born as well as a pharaoh and his soldiers. Taking these stories at face value we have a reasonable expectation for evidence such as contemporary records from neighboring civilizations, archaeological evidence, and geological evidence. (Taking these stories as metaphorical creates other problems, but we'll see if that argument is necessary before I head in that direction)

What kind of evidence would the destruction Sodom and Gomorrah leave behind? First off, we would expect contemporary writings about the destruction of two cities. In other words, eyewitnesses who tell us about this destruction and what they saw. There are none. The Bible tells us these cities were destroyed with fire and brimstone.

Genesis 19: 24

Then the Lord rained on Sodom and Gomorrah brimstone and fire from the Lord out of heaven,

Brimstone is another name for sulfur, and it is quite easy to spot due to its yellow color. So is there evidence for the existence of cities destroyed in this manner? No. Archeologists have been searching for these cities for almost a hundred years and have found no trace of any cities destroyed with brimstone. We’re striking out here – no evidence.

How about we move on to the Exodus? We would expect to find Egyptian records mentioning the death of a pharaoh or the death of every first born in the land. There are none. We would expect to find a lot of evidence of 600,000 men (well over a million people including women and children) living (and dying) in the desert for 40 years, but again there is no evidence. In fact archaeologists have given up on searching for evidence of such a large group of people ever roaming the Sinai desert.

“The archeological evidence does not support the story told in the Book of Exodus and most archaeologists have abandoned the investigation of Moses and the Exodus as "a fruitless pursuit"" [1]

That leaves us with the Flood. If a global flood occurred, what kind of evidence would we expect to find? Well, there would be massive amount of evidence. We would expect to find a relatively recent fossil layer which included modern animals (zebras, lions, tigers, wolves, giraffes, etc.) and modern humans. This fossil layer should be worldwide. In addition to this, we should expect to find a worldwide layer of pebbles, boulders, and sludge moved about by the flood. What do we find? Nothing like this – there is no strata with modern bones and ancient fossils ...and there is no worldwide sludge layer. So again, we have struck out.

So what about the Christian god who is said to have participated in these events? Three major stories with no evidence they ever happened. We expect to find evidence from S&G, from the Exodus, and most especially from the flood but we do not. God was (said to have been) directly involved in each of these stories. If there stories are false, then it casts serious doubt on the Christian god who is said to have played a critical part in them. Given this lack of evidence for YHWH in general and lack of evidence for the stories he is said to have been involved – I submit the god of the Bible does not exist...at least not as claimed by the Bible.

When this lack of expected evidence is added to my earlier arguments pointing out the logical impossibility of the Christian god, disbelief (or flat out rejection) of the Christian god is a much more reasonable position than belief based on weak or non-existent evidence.

I've got a pretty good idea. Enough to not blindly accept atheism as fact.James GatesThe Beasthttps://www.facebook.com/The-Beast-is-Strong-in-This-One-273041423117102/All of these things will be true in the end according to the Bible.1)Israel exists.2)Egypt exists still but with its former power ceasing to exist.3)Syria exists.4)Damascus exists and is reduced to rubble.5)The beast system emerges. Islam literaly claims to be the beast system in its eschatology, and no one knew this outside the Muslim world until the Internet and 9/11.6)The gospel goes worldwide, and then begins a sharp decline into secularism.7)Homosexuality becomes normal and accepted.8)It is depicted as all manifesting rather rapidly in sequence.God couldn't have handed it to us on a more silver platter, so it might seem.

@brontoraptor Interesting video with James Gates, which lead me to this other video he was in with Neil D. ,, this one:

Here are physicists, astrophysicists, and philosophers saying what I have been saying for many years straight out of the Bible, but I guess with no PHD, my voice just don't carry as far and wide as these guys, including the "Blue Brain Project" inventor Henry Markram.

"Does the Biblical God exist? Possibly."

Now either I'm crazy, or this sounds just like in those videos where a bunch of physicists, astrophysicists, and philosophers who after having observed all of Edison's inventions all their life, .. read his Biography, would get together and ask "Did Edison exist? Possibly."

Hmm, .. good question! If physicists, astrophysicists, and philosophers can't figure out if Edison existed or not, they sure as hell won't figure out if Bible God exists or not! Because they don't want to, and you can see that right off the bat in the video I just posted. Degrassee mocks even the idea, hinting for everyone to stay away from the idea of "someone having created this Matrix" .. the idea of a "Creator".

Does Biblical God exist? Biblical God, .. the Creator of Heaven and Earth, that God?Well according to the Bible, of course He exists. But what kind of proof are we, or are they looking for?Like are they looking for the "Creator of all things" that we observe in the physical world, .. that God? Or the one who created the quantum speck that popped out of nothing which got denser and hotter until it exploded in nothing with a Big-Bang (because if something popped out of, or fluctuated out of nothing, would have to remain in nothing, where else would it be?) that god? You know, that Catholic Jesuit god that caused the Big Bang and then evolved into the Evolution theory, because they claim that too was Bible God.

Or are we talking about the Mormon god Mormo, because they too use the Bible and claim their god is Bible God.

What I have observed over the years is that these physicists, professors, philosophers actually know THE Infinite Creator exists, and how He created everything, but in these debates they make it sound as if they don't. This is to keep the truth hidden in plain sight, just as they do with the Flat Earth, with planets, .. which is actually a really good one. We can all see the stars, all they did was create a fantastic story and gave us artist rendered caricatures of the stars and we believed them.

Well they are doing the very opposite with God, they eliminate the most important aspects (if that's the right word?) of God, and when all this other obvious things pop up because of our advancement in understanding physics and computer technology, they go round and round acting all ignorant about it, as if they just couldn't connect the dots.

Yes, that right there in the videos IS the evidence, not particularly of God Himself, but How Infinite God created everything. Now all they have to do is admit that "Infinite" is reality, and wham, everyone with basic understanding of science and math terminology like; finite and infinite numbers exist in Infinite.

Simple logic:Once Infinite created Word, or language, it is no longer part of Infinite, yet it is still within Infinite. And through this language (as these physicists, astrophysicists, and philosophers say; this computer language) God is able to create all things through "Word"

It's all right there, clear as day John 1:1-

Seriously, let's think about this for a second!? Does anyone actually think that todays physicists, astrophysicists, and philosophers who make their living in keeping the human population in ignorance with their lies like NASA and CERN does, who openly worship the god of this world Lucifer would turn in their credentials, get on their knees in repentance and admit that they have been lying to us since the invention of the word 'science'!? And admit that; "the God of the Bible did create the universe and everything in it, .. and here is how He did it!"

Mathew 12:26 If Satan casts out Satan, he is divided against himself. How then will his kingdom stand?

John 5:18 "For this reason they tried all the more to kill him; not only was he breaking the Sabbath, but he was even calling God his own Father, making himself equal with God."Luke 22:70 They all asked, “Are you then the Son of God?” He replied, “You say that I am.” Then they said, “Why do we need any more testimony? We have heard it from his own lips.”

1.1 Think about a shapeshifter in human form. The shapeshifter is human, but unlike regular humans, the shapeshifter is able to change form. Can God come in the form of a rock? Yes, he can, but that was not his goal. Likewise, a shapeshifter can change into any form, but chooses not to. I am not saying that shapeshifters as humans see them exist.

2.1 First of all, think of the Trinity as water, existing in three states: solid, liquid, and gas. Clearly, while separate entities, they are the same. Revisiting the analogy of the shapeshifter, I can once again say that the characteristics are combined in Jesus. For instance, can a shapeshifter in human form fly? Humans cannot fly, but a shapeshifter can transform into a bird and fly. Likewise, Jesus in human form can access all knowledge, but that would require some "violation" from his human form.

2.2 I believe Jesus's baptism was an example for others. Mark 10:17-22 says that Jesus said, "No one is good except God alone." or equivalent (depends on the version). See https://www.gotquestions.org/good-God-alone.html Revisiting the analogy of water, I could accurately say there is only one molecule that is pure water. I could also accurately say that ice, liquid water, and steam are all water. They can interact with each other.

2.3 already addressed earlier, not much to say

2.4 In other passages, he says he is the I am, in addition to other passages, saying that Jesus is the way, the truth and the life.

2.5 How come one person (Jesus, who is God) dying for another's sin is unbiblical?1) Probably referring to heaven and to Jesus's message spreading (after all, New Jerusalem = heaven in Revelation)2) Once again, probably reference to heaven, and I do not think those passages are prophecies3) Probably gradual rather than instant, finalizing in the second coming and ending of the world4) All the dead will rise eventually at the end of the world.5) In heaven, eventually

Also, I could say to follow the laws and say that you should steal to save somebody's life. Jesus's intents are summarized in "Love God and one another". That was the intent of the law. Therefore, Jesus broke the Sabbath to heal.

Ask me to elaborate on anything that seems insufficient, as this is a quick overview of each segment

Interesting response. Instead of actually refuting my arguments, you implement the use of metaphor. I thought Scripture was divine and perfect, that it was absolute truth and that we humans, being subjective as we are, could never find truth without being granted it? Of course, there are problems with this concept, but for the moment, let's pretend it's true.

Firstly, you use the same old argument Christians have been using for centuries, that the trinity is akin to water, it can take any form yet, still be of the same substance, couldn't an all power G-d not do the same? Why try and limit Him?

In Judaism, we're not limiting Him, Christians are. Here's why:

1.) Water cannot be a liquid, solid, and gas all at once. Each time, it changes. If water could actually be all three at once, then this idea could work. According to the trinity creed, the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost are of the same essence, eternally. They don't change from one substance into another, and they definitely don't change properties. In fact, you've just sided with the heretical cult of Modalism, which taught that G-d manifested Himself as separate entities (i.e., Father, Son, and Holy Ghost), but could never be all three at once. Even then, if liquid, gas, and solid were situated in one place at one time, that still wouldn't help you - because each substance would be it's one entity. The gas occupying the same place as the solid ice cube are not the same!

According to the trinity claim, the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost are equals, they're not separate. The water equation fails to hold this up because each cycle of its transformation is different and has no relation to one another other than being made up of the same molecules. The theory of the trinity is one of mental gymnastics, a perichoresis one. G-d is not a moleular ready to be studied under a microscope to go all out literal! Remember, the solid destroys the gas portion when in transition, the trinity Father does not destroy the Son. Moreover, the trinity concept is one of love, G-d loves his creation, water cannot. G-d is not some form of atom, He is a spirit manifested beyond our highest conceptions.

2.) This argument works the same for the shapeshifter. Yes, this being can be a bird and also a human, but can "it" be both at once? Of course not, and this explodes your theory, unless you take the stand that the Son is unequal to the Father, as Jesus himself said, and if you believe the two have nothing to do with each other, which only robs Jesus of his divinity, in that case, Christianity has just shot itself in the foot. . . again.

3.) You stated G-d's goal wasn't to come in the form of a rock. Firstly, G-d is everything, Kabbalah teaches us that the rock is His lowest form we can interact with, but if He is everything, then why not also be human? Perhaps so, but G-d was careful to make the distinction between human and divinity.

4.) You have yet to show me the passages where Jesus actually stated, "I Am." Remeber, this is not what would have been said anyways, furthermore, Jesus didn't know Greek! Neither did you come around to the same words spoken by Judas, so was he too G-d?

5.) Can you clearly prove to me against the scholarly agreement that the trinity wasn't a byproduct of Nicea? Again, like I said, we have the documentation that they were going over this stuff in heated debate, one would expect that if a religious piece recognized the trinity, it'd be as easy as deciphering between night and day, but notice how that wasn't the case with the trinity.

6.) Jesus dying for another' mans sins is unbiblical, how do I know this? Just read Exodus 32:30-35, where Moses begs G-d to take his life on behalf of the sinners of Israel. G-d refuses, the sinners will pay for their sins, no one, not even Moses, can take that away from them. Deuteronomy 24:16 echoes this statement that every man shall pay for his sins alone.

Read Ezekiel 18:20 or Jeremiah 31:29-30, did any of the prophets believe a person could just offer him or herself as an atonement for the wicked? Really? Furthermore, I challenge you, or any Christian for that matter, to look in those same passages and tell me if you find one hint of a blood atonement. They don't exist, they're not there - G-d requires repentance and true turning from evil rather than the offering of fools (Ecclesiastes 4:17). The prophet Hosea made this point very strongly when he said, "Take words with you and return to Adonai. Say to Him, 'Take away all iniquity; receive us graciously, for we will render for bulls the offering of our lips.'”

The death of Jesus would either mark the end of Christianity, and his followers weren't about to allow that happen, they wanted to believe that their man had been the Messiah, and so the concept of a resurrected Messiah was born, especially with the aide of Paul. Again, you can reinterpret the Bible at will if you like to suit your needs of death atonement, but just remember, you'd be going against what Adonai said in the Torah in Deuteronomy 24:16, further recall that the Eternal doesn't change His mind, that's the whole message of Malachi 3:6!

Christians then resort to misquoting the rabbis, I say "misquoting" because these righteous men had no faith in Jesus as Lord, just remember to note that these same Christians refuse to cite the Talmud when the wind blows against their agenda. Talk about deception!

Here's a quick example of this in action:

They cite Moed Katan 28b, B.T., as saying: “The death of the righteous atones.”

Fine, but the rabbis also said this: “Confession makes atonement.” (Yoma 36b, B.T.)

Remeber, had a blood offering or the death of the righteous been so important to the ancient Jews, then why were the prophets and the Torah silent on this most bizarre and paramount theological issue?

Moreover, if I'm right, and one can become righteous through the law, the law of Torah - which is sincere repentance without a death, then Paul was right when he said: "If righteousness comes through the Law, then Christ died needlessly." (Galatians 2:21)

Some more verses, just food for thought:

“I have placed life and death before you, blessing and the curse. So choose life in order that you may live.” (Deuteronomy 30:19)

“Sin is crouching at the door, it desires you, but you can master it.” (Genesis 4:7)

“Turn from evil and do good.” (Psalm 37:27)

"Let the wicked forsake his way and let him return to Adonai." (Isaiah 55:7)

When a wicked man turns away from his wickedness which he has committed and practices justice and righteousness, he will save his life." (Ezekiel 18:27)

If my people, who are called by my name, will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven, and I will forgive their sin and will heal their land.” (2 Chronicles 7:14)

“The sacrifices of G-d are a broken spirit, a broken and contrite heart.” (Psalm 51:22)

"The sacrifice of the wicked is an abomination to Adonai, but the prayer of the upright is His delight." (Proverbs 15:8)

“I desire kindness and not sacrifices, the knowledge of G-d more than burnt offerings.” (Hosea 6:6)

“If they return back to you with all their heart and soul in the land of their enemies who took them captive, and pray to you toward the land you gave their ancestors, toward the city you have chosen and the temple I have built for your Name; then from heaven, your dwelling place, hear their prayer and their plea, and uphold their cause. And forgive your people, who have sinned against you.” (1 Kings 8:47-52)

"Let men call on G-d earnestly that each may turn from his wicked. When G-d saw their (the citizens of Nineveh) deeds; that they turned from their wicked way, then G-d relented concerning the calamity." (Jonah 3:9-10) - I saw no mention of a blood atonement there, did you?

“And G-d said, "I have forgiven them according to your words.” (Numbers 14:20) - not human sacrifices as Jesus.

In conclusion, I think its safe to say that no man, not even Jesus, could have ever possibly died for your sins. The Hebrew Bible, the foundation of the New Testament, strictly warns against it.

7.) You're short remarks (2, 3, 4, and 5) in your last post don't make any sense to me, please elaborate, which points are you referring to in my paper?

8.) the rabbis said the same as Jesus, just read what Shabbat 31a, B.T. has to say, from the mouth of the great Sage, Hillel to a convert wanting to join the Jewish nation: "That which is hateful unto you do not do to your neighbor. This is the whole of the Torah, The rest is commentary. Go forth and study.” Sound familiar? Don't say the rabbis didn't have wisdom, you don't have to believe in the Talmud, nor the Oral Law (halachic portion from Sinai), just don't claim it's lame of thought.

9.) You asked a good question, what happened to Jesus' body after the crucifixion? Well, to be frank, I don't know. Who does! What happened to Moses body? Who knows where it is!

That, however, doesn't prove Jesus survived either. It's just a loop of circular reasoning, lack of evidence proves the story.

The real truth is: we don't know. I hope that's somehow satisfying to you. It doesn't really matter if he rose or not because the Torah and even Jesus himself said that miracles aren't proof of anything - they're just a test from G-d. Besides, you'd have to first refute everything I've just stated before we could even begin to consider Jesus as anything more than a guy who walked around in the desert with sandals on his feet preaching to the misfits of his day, 2,000 some years ago.

1) This analogy isn't perfect. Understanding the Trinity, even for Christians, is difficult. See https://www.everystudent.com/forum/trinity.html2) See https://www.desiringgod.org/articles/how-can-jesus-be-god-and-man for some explanation. These analogies are imperfect. Jesus being both God and man is more comparable to the soul-body. Humans have a soul and a body, as you stated in another debate. Jesus is both God (spiritual) and man (physical).3) There is a difference between a human and a corpse. Likewise, there is a difference between Jesus and humans. Jesus is the soul of God inside a human body.4) John 8, 11:25, 14:65) See https://www.gotquestions.org/council-of-Nicea.html6) That's only true if Jesus is not God. Recall the analogy of the shapeshifter, I could say "No human can become a bird." However, the shapeshifter in human form can.7) addressing the quotes you used as evidence for that section8) Okay, Jesus's teaching coincided with other teachings, so...9) Mose's body is probably decaying in Mount Nebo, Jordan.

I must be missing something, where did Jesus say: "I am God" or that: "I am God, but my Father is greater than I", .. or that: "I alone am God, and there is none beside me, .. well except my Father, and that other person of us that we call the Holy Spirit!" ??

John 5:18 "For this reason they tried all the more to kill him; not only was he breaking the Sabbath, but he was even calling God his own Father, making himself equal with God."Luke 22:70 They all asked, “Are you then the Son of God?” He replied, “You say that I am.” Then they said, “Why do we need any more testimony? We have heard it from his own lips.”

In the OT, Daniel 7 mentions "The Son of Man", which Jesus quotes.

@anonymousdebator - read it again, but with prayer, on a spiritual level not looking at the indoctrinations we been brainwashed with: “Are you then the Son of God?” He replied, “You say that I am."

Again, what do you think they asked Jesus? That "Are you God", .. or that "are you the son of God?".