I agree that it's kind of offensive to say that willingness to have an abortion = hardcore.

Yup, this.

yeah, it is kind of offensive. I would have an abortion if I got pregnant by accident but didn't feel it was the right time, or if I didn't want to have kids at that point. That in no way influences the fact that there might be another time when I got pregnant by accident and decided I did want to proceed with the pregnancy.

_________________"If I were M. de la Viandeviande, I would now write a thirteen page post about how you have to have free will to be vegan, but modern science does not suggest any evidence for free will, therefore it is impossible to be vegan." -mumbles

I think SC just meant that there is a difference between people who don't try to get pregnant but if they did accidentally, would keep it, and people who would not keep the baby no matter what their circumstances are. Like if you had a supportive partner, all of the money and resources you would need, and a supportive family/network of friends, you still wouldn't carry a baby to term because you really do not want kids, versus someone who may want kids at some point but they choose to terminate a pregnancy because the time isn't right.

_________________"The Tree is His Penis"

The tree is his penis // it's very exciting // when held up to his mouth // the lights are all lighting // his eyes start a-bulging // in unbridled glee // the tree is his penis // its beauty, effulgent -amandabear

I think SC just meant that there is a difference between people who don't try to get pregnant but if they did accidentally, would keep it, and people who would not keep the baby no matter what their circumstances are. Like if you had a supportive partner, all of the money and resources you would need, and a supportive family/network of friends, you still wouldn't carry a baby to term because you really do not want kids, versus someone who may want kids at some point but they choose to terminate a pregnancy because the time isn't right.

heh, i went to high school with the author of two of the webcomics posted in this thread. she's quite a character.

i haven't gotten too much pressure from family or friends (yet?). i think i've made it clear to my mom that i don't want kids, although when i was talking about wanting to adopt a cat she piped up about toxoplasmosis "just in case you get pregnant". i haven't broached the subject with the in-laws, but they have two 20-something daughters of their own, so hopefully that'll take some of the focus off me.

some of you may be aware of the same-sex marriage legislation making its way through UK government. there's a lot of national discussion about the subject right now, including many socially conservative commentators espousing the idea that marriage is an institution primarily for the raising of children. Mr Ketchup thinks it's silly, but i am somewhat concerned that this notion is going to develop into a cultural shift that puts procreation (or at least parenthood) even more at the forefront of marriage than it is already. i wouldn't mind so much if, y'know, marriage weren't necessary for us to live together in the same country.

_________________vegan cheese bigamy is not allowed. - LisaPunk

So today at PPK I learned how to fork up a falafel and a taco. - craiger_ny

and i meant it as an opt-in definition, (and that's also why i added an alternative "childfree for life" option instead of "hardcore") it was my way of saying that the people who call less dedicated childfree folks "fencesitters" or "childfree by choice/circumstances" should adopt the extra definitive instead of the people who aren't completely sure about the future. if you're at least 51% sure you're going to be childfree for life, there's no reason why you shouldn't be allowed to call yourselves simply "childfree" while you're actively avoiding instead of using those extra descriptors that the 100% certain people want you to use.

like we're all vegans no matter what. if we choose to no longer be vegan in the future, that doesn't negate all the vegan-ness we had in the past. that obviously doesn't make us vegans in that moment, but we can still say we used to be vegan. the same with childfree. there's no reason we shouldn't be allowed to say we used to be childfree. people change, and that's okay.

Obviously people have different ideas about whether they would choose abortion or not, I just don't like the idea of framing abortion as some sort of extreme action when it's a really simple choice for a lot of people.

_________________"No one with hair so soft and glossy could ever be bad at anything." - Tofulish

So am I the only one who when says she isn't planning on having kids gets the response, "Good!"?

_________________I would eat Dr. Cow pocket cheese in a second. I would eat it if you hid it under your hat, or in your backpack, but not if it was in your shoe. That's where I draw the line. -allularpunk

So am I the only one who when says she isn't planning on having kids gets the response, "Good!"?

Depends on who I'm talking to. I've definitely had people tell me I'm making the right choice, especially from parents of toddlers. LOL

Usually it's my parents who tell me that, ha! People at work just assume I will have kids once Wilson comes back, but I'm just not interested. Like many of you, I feel kind of guilty for not being interested. I like kids sometimes, but I don't want to be entirely responsible for one. I feel the same way with pets. I loved when I lived with people who had kitties. It meant snuggles and no litter box cleaning or vet bills. I think I'm just too selfish to have children. I can deal with considering Wilson's wants and needs when I think about things, but it might be my limit. Also, I hate sharing my toys.

_________________I would eat Dr. Cow pocket cheese in a second. I would eat it if you hid it under your hat, or in your backpack, but not if it was in your shoe. That's where I draw the line. -allularpunk

Obviously people have different ideas about whether they would choose abortion or not, I just don't like the idea of framing abortion as some sort of extreme action when it's a really simple choice for a lot of people.

I am picturing it as being an event televised on ESPN 24--EXTREME Abortion! Sponsored by MOUNTAIN DEWWWWW!! *guitar solo*

I think you're right though, in that we need to normalize abortion, and that it really isn't an extreme act. It's, in fact, a lot less extreme than continuing a pregnancy.

_________________"I'd rather have dried catshit! I'd rather have astroturf! I'd rather have an igloo!"~Isa

"But really, anyone willing to dangle their baby in front of a crocodile is A-OK in my book."~SSD

Obviously people have different ideas about whether they would choose abortion or not, I just don't like the idea of framing abortion as some sort of extreme action when it's a really simple choice for a lot of people.

I am picturing it as being an event televised on ESPN 24--EXTREME Abortion! Sponsored by MOUNTAIN DEWWWWW!! *guitar solo*

If abortion were like that I would get them all the time! Can I get one while I'm on a skateboard?

_________________"No one with hair so soft and glossy could ever be bad at anything." - Tofulish

Obviously people have different ideas about whether they would choose abortion or not, I just don't like the idea of framing abortion as some sort of extreme action when it's a really simple choice for a lot of people.

I am picturing it as being an event televised on ESPN 24--EXTREME Abortion! Sponsored by MOUNTAIN DEWWWWW!! *guitar solo*

If abortion were like that I would get them all the time! Can I get one while I'm on a skateboard?

Dude, you HAVE to be on a skateboard to get one. Or a RAZR scooter!

_________________"I'd rather have dried catshit! I'd rather have astroturf! I'd rather have an igloo!"~Isa

"But really, anyone willing to dangle their baby in front of a crocodile is A-OK in my book."~SSD

Obviously people have different ideas about whether they would choose abortion or not, I just don't like the idea of framing abortion as some sort of extreme action when it's a really simple choice for a lot of people.

I am picturing it as being an event televised on ESPN 24--EXTREME Abortion! Sponsored by MOUNTAIN DEWWWWW!! *guitar solo*

If abortion were like that I would get them all the time! Can I get one while I'm on a skateboard?

I want my abortion to be sponsored by Red Bull. And I want to be on a bmx bike.

*whew* i've been reading for hours and i finally got to page 19! just in time to accidentally step on the abortion jokes! i have fantastic timing.

i found this thread late last night and was surprised (and a little intimidated/worried) by how long it was for how new it was.... reading it (basically) all in one go was certainly an experience.

now that i'm at the end i'm a little spent, so i'll just say for now that i'm 38, have no kiddos, and don't plan to have any. i've been married since i was 24 (my husband is 4 years older) and we just always were in the "i'm not sure what will happen in the long run, but i definitely don't have a strong desire to be a parent" camp. also, we're both professors so we were extremely worried about getting tenure, and agreed that if (big if) we ever had kids that it wouldn't be until after we had tenure.

meanwhile my sister (who lives in the same town) had two beautiful daughters, and we've had a front row seat on parenting for the past 8+ years. it made us feel, on many many many occasions, that we were making the right decision for us.

sometimes i feel like we are too lazy or too preoccupied or too damaged or something to be parents; i feel like we're sensitive to the societal view that everyone should want to be parents, and worry something is wrong with us. but i strongly agree that it's better to regret not having kids than to regret having them, and i also feel like you probably shouldn't have kids if you aren't feeling a strong desire to have them. i think babies are adorable and toddlers are cute and kids are hilarious and teenagers are awesome (at least, they all *can* be those things), but that doesn't mean i want to live with one or be responsible for one's well-being at all times. the idea terrifies me, quite honestly.

i like the idea of being the cool auntie, too. i try my very best.

and i totes want to live in supercarrot's retirement home when i get old!

_________________i'm not around much, but that doesn't mean i don't love you.

I agree with everything you said, bluedawg. Same is true for me for the most part, except I don't live in the same town as my brother which is a bummer because I'd love to see his kids more often. Well, mostly. His girls are on a big screaming kick, which makes Aunt Nicole feel very tired.

Another layer is being a step-parent, which is really a trip. I love my stepdaughter, but I'm glad I don't have to make the rules or be responsible for her. I feel guilty saying that, but I am just figuring out how to take care of myself!

_________________I would eat Dr. Cow pocket cheese in a second. I would eat it if you hid it under your hat, or in your backpack, but not if it was in your shoe. That's where I draw the line. -allularpunk

somewhere relatively warmish or at least temperate, (i was thinking somewhere just south of portland. the east coast has had too many hurricanes lately, and it'll probably get worse so i don't think that's a good idea. also the winter vs summer temperatures swing too wildly.) it needs enough land to have a big orchard and farm, but close enough to other people so they can use the vet's office and buy stuff from our bakery which will be called "not your grandma's" and we can also have a pretty landscaped area so wedding parties can have their photos taken.) i am assuming a lot of us won't have the money to keep it going, so we'll need to offer services to the community. we can have a thrift store on the grounds too, so we don't have to worry about having estate sales, we can just bring our valuable crepe with us and sell it there. oh, a little grocery co-op would be a good idea too.

our kitchen will be huge, and we'll have special closets for our fermentation projects, and of course another closet full of our vitamixes and kitchenaid mixers in case the ones we're using on the reg break down.

societal view that everyone should want to be parents, and worry something is wrong with us. but i strongly agree that it's better to regret not having kids than to regret having them, and i also feel like you probably shouldn't have kids if you aren't feeling a strong desire to have them. i think babies are adorable and toddlers are cute and kids are hilarious and teenagers are awesome (at least, they all *can* be those things), but that doesn't mean i want to live with one or be responsible for one's well-being at all times. the idea terrifies me, quite honestly.