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Well you could have forgiven her if she admitted that she was wrong over it...

People can be overly hasty in arguments...

A guy ALWAYS has to forgive a girl no matter what she has done. That is the rule of society since the ancient times.

If you think that is unfair, think again because as a guy you don't have to have a control rod rammed in between your legs and being commanded by it.

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When three puppygirls named after pastries are on top of each other, it is called Eclair a'la menthe et Biscotti aux fraises avec beaucoup de Ricotta sur le dessus.
Most of all, you have to be disciplined and you have to save, even if you hate our current financial system. Because if you don't save, then you're guaranteed to end up with nothing.

A guy ALWAYS has to forgive a girl no matter what she has done. That is the rule of society since the ancient times.

If you think that is unfair, think again because as a guy you don't have to have a control rod rammed in between your legs and being commanded by it.

On a serious note I could easily despite that.

What a guy has that is deadlier than any sin (lust in your case) is pride.
The worst of the lot and men have done some stupid ass things just for the sake of pride.
Forgiveness isn't one of them. If a man is bowing down to a woman being spiteful and manipulative, he's pussy whipped beyond self respect.

As for 'who', well I can look personally for that, on a general note, it's amazing how many women get thrown out, disowned, discredited or stoned to death for 'transgressions' that she actually doesn't commit...

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Worrying is like a rocking chair. It gives you something to do, but it doesn't get you anywhere. - Van Wilder"If you ain't laughin', you ain't livin'." - Carlos Mencia

AFTER the 28th:Her: Do you not want to see me that much?Me: What? Of course I wanted to see you.Her: Well when I told you I'm busy on the 28th, I wasn't. But you didn't seem to care at all or ask me to reschedule.

That's just the worst. I had a girlfriend who, after disagreements, would threaten to break up with me. She didn't really want to break up with me, but in her own words, she wanted me to "chase" her. Of course, I went the route of "well that sucks but I'm not going to keep you in a relationship you don't want to be in." That didn't sit well with her.

Eventually, I was sick of it and said, "Either break up with me or stop threatening to do it." That got the job done.

If a man is bowing down to a woman being spiteful and manipulative, he's pussy whipped beyond self respect.

QFE! Kids, I only have one rule: never let a woman drag you around to do her bidding unless she's hot.

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don't women like the confident type who isn't easily controlled?

I think we had a similar discussion a couple of summers ago (or was it last winter?), iirc we concluded that women have a lot of traits...rationality is not one of them. They don't necessarily know what they want, but they know what they don't want, so they try to shape men out of their (subjectively- bad habits, all the while claiming to love people for who they are.

Actually, after reading through all of these posts, sometimes I wonder why many guys actually want to go into a relationship when they expect heartbreaks or failures despite putting their all into it, or even worse, doling out expenses the Dutch way.

Do you know the expression "expect the worst, hope for the best"? The people on this forum are, by and large, "nerdy." I'm not necessarily talking about physical appearance - I'm talking about hobbies, social mannerisms, and so on. Society doesn't exactly place people in that category on a pedestal. The glum outlook may partly come from that stereotype that "nerds" aren't desirable and rarely get the girl.

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Originally Posted by SaintessHeart

Males are supposed to be more rational - and I am a pretty good example; I have so plenty of 2D waifus, and I am very happy to have near-perfect girls like them to love. Plus I don't have to spend much on them too by going out to build relationship points. And when I want another one, all I have to do is the basics of starting a relationship - plan, improvise and execute......no need to waste effort on being introspective, or rather, totally forgetting about that during the relationship.

HAHAHAHAHAHA oh God... you're joking, right? Please, say yes? Are you really trying to say that you're more rational for having chosen fantasy relationships than those of us who pursued the real thing? I'm not judging your choice, but I'm very close to wanting to fight with you over that thought.

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Originally Posted by Kafriel

... we concluded that women have a lot of traits...rationality is not one of them. They don't necessarily know what they want, but they know what they don't want, so they try to shape men out of their (subjectively- bad habits, all the while claiming to love people for who they are.

Yeah, because men really know what they want, right? I'll be blunt: what you've written is sexist garbage, and as I man I find it offensive. Humans, in general, regardless of their gender, have no idea what they want. Part of the reason for that is because what they want is always changing, and because we all want what we don't or can't have.

Yeah, because men really know what they want, right? I'll be blunt: what you've written is sexist garbage, and as I man I find it offensive. Humans, in general, regardless of their gender, have no idea what they want. Part of the reason for that is because what they want is always changing, and because we all want what we don't or can't have.

It's a bit surprising to see you complain about this stereotyping when you make a much more egregious generalization in your first paragraph. Regardless, saying "men tend to be more rational than women" is no more sexist than "men tend to be stronger than women." Something isn't sexist if it's true.

Men are more straightforward than women; it's just their personality. Why do you think there's so much conflict in relationships between men and women? It's because each gender sees things differently. That's simply a fact of life, not sexism.

It's a bit surprising to see you complain about this stereotyping when you make a much more egregious generalization in your first paragraph.

Sorry, but you're fulfilling some of your socialization needs by regularly talking to strangers on an internet forum. At the present time, this sort of activity falls outside of society's notion of "normal." Someone who drives 20 MPH above the speed limit might balk at being called a reckless driver, but their actions earn them that classification.

Regardless, you're correct in saying that it's a generalization, and I apologize if it offended you.

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Originally Posted by Gamer_2k4

Regardless, saying "men tend to be more rational than women" is no more sexist than "men tend to be stronger than women." Something isn't sexist if it's true.

Men tend to be stronger than women due to hormonal regulation differences. This is a scientifically proven fact. Rationality is subjective. To make a statement about it and pass it off as fact is something that I disagree with.

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Originally Posted by Gamer_2k4

Why do you think there's so much conflict in relationships between men and women? It's because each gender sees things differently. That's simply a fact of life, not sexism.

Why do you think there's so much conflict in the world, even though governments tend to be run by men? Because people - that term encompasses both genders - tend to run into conflicts. Or do you have a study proving that homosexual couples tend to fight less than heterosexual couples? If so, I'd be very interested to read it.

Humans, in general, regardless of their gender, have no idea what they want. Part of the reason for that is because what they want is always changing, and because we all want what we don't or can't have.

Most people do know what they want, but yes, what they want always changes. But that doesn't mean they don't know what they want in the present.

As for our needs, the problem is we always want everything we already have with something more. Which is impossible. Something is always lost with every gain. We only think about the gain. And when we achieve it, we realized we have a hole somewhere else but can't make the connection. So then we want that hole to be fixed and we end up going back to where we began.

If a woman wants a man who's very caring and controlling (almost like a father, ewww lololol), they're losing their own privacy. And if they want their privacy, they're pulling the closeness further than they actually want it to be.

Similarly, if a man wants a woman who's attractive, that attractiveness will attract the man's attention and the unwanted attention of others.

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Originally Posted by Ledgem

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Originally Posted by SaintessHeart

Actually, after reading through all of these posts, sometimes I wonder why many guys actually want to go into a relationship when they expect heartbreaks or failures despite putting their all into it, or even worse, doling out expenses the Dutch way.

Do you know the expression "expect the worst, hope for the best"? The people on this forum are, by and large, "nerdy." I'm not necessarily talking about physical appearance - I'm talking about hobbies, social mannerisms, and so on. Society doesn't exactly place people in that category on a pedestal. The glum outlook may partly come from that stereotype that "nerds" aren't desirable and rarely get the girl.

How does that have anything do with what you just quoted? And that expression is an ideology for an optimistic but realistic attitude that people should have, which has nothing to do with what you said afterwards.

While you criticize some else for posting sexist garbage, you're posting derogatory stereotypical garbage yourself in the assumption that the majority of the people here are nerdy in something such as social mannerism. This is an anime themed forum for anime enthusiasts. It's an interest. One interest doesn't judge how our social life is as you claim as 'glum'.

And most hypocritical of all, you say nerds aren't desirable and rarely get the girl? What, nerds can't be girls? Especially the 'nerds' in this board?

Most people do know what they want, but yes, what they want always changes. But that doesn't mean they don't know what they want in the present.

What I'm discussing goes deeper than that. You think you want something, but once you have it, it's not what you thought it would be. In other words, what you truly wanted was something else, but you didn't recognize it. Perhaps you still don't recognize it, and you need to go through acquiring more of what you think you want a few times before you begin to realize what your true desire is.

Not everyone has that problem, but from what I've seen and heard, it's quite common.

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Originally Posted by Paranoid Android

As for our needs, the problem is we always want everything we already have with something more. Which is impossible. Something is always lost with every gain. We only think about the gain. And when we achieve it, we realized we have a hole somewhere else but can't make the connection. So then we want that hole to be fixed and we end up going back to where we began.

True and insightfully stated.

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Originally Posted by Paranoid Android

How does that have anything do with what you just quoted? And that expression is an ideology for an optimistic but realistic attitude that people should have, which has nothing to do with what you said afterwards.

Saintess asked why people would try for something that they ultimately feel will fail. My points were two-fold: 1) that people may not truly be as pessimistic as they seem (hence the quote), and 2) the reason for pessimism may have to do with society's stereotypes.

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Originally Posted by Paranoid Android

While you criticize some else for posting sexist garbage, you're posting derogatory stereotypical garbage yourself in the assumption that the majority of the people here are nerdy in something such as social mannerism. This is an anime themed forum for anime enthusiasts. It's an interest. One interest doesn't judge how our social life is as you claim as 'glum'.

And most hypocritical of all, you say nerds aren't desirable and rarely get the girl? What, nerds can't be girls? Especially the 'nerds' in this board?

Ah, it was rather callous of me to write what I did - I'm secure in being regarded as "nerdy" or awkward in various ways (who isn't?) but I should have figured that people would be insulted by that statement and probably kept it to myself. For the record, I did not say that the social life was "glum" but that people here have a "glum outlook" on their chances with girls as a result of society's stereotypes. I also did not say that nerds are not desirable - I find you all desirable enough to converse with, and have for many years - I was remarking on society's stereotypes.

What, do you disagree with me? Has society changed its tune? I'll admit that I've been cooped up in research labs and other places of academia for a few years, and I'm not the most up to date with these things. Are "nerds" now desirable, or has anime become such a mainstream hobby that you're not a "nerd" for engaging in it?

As to your last statement, I'm talking to a bunch of men at the moment, so I'm addressing males specifically. Of course nerds can be girls. I don't keep up with modern movies or television shows, but from what I can tell, "the nerdy girl" is now something that is being brought into them - how does society portray those types of girls? The last time I saw something relating to that, it was "nerdy girl undergoes transformation to become a popular girl." Have they changed that around so that the "nerdy girl" remains as she is, and is still desirable?

Why do you think there's so much conflict in the world, even though governments tend to be run by men? Because people - that term encompasses both genders - tend to run into conflicts. Or do you have a study proving that homosexual couples tend to fight less than heterosexual couples? If so, I'd be very interested to read it.

Gender and sex are two different things, or so I've learned here.

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Yeah, because men really know what they want, right? I'll be blunt: what you've written is sexist garbage, and as I man I find it offensive. Humans, in general, regardless of their gender, have no idea what they want. Part of the reason for that is because what they want is always changing, and because we all want what we don't or can't have.

Well -I- want a relationship without conflict, that's who I am and it is final. Likewise, my male friends know exactly what they want, while women actively pursue something else, wary of stability even if it means constant changes at a certain pace. What you may find offensive is my life experience, I can't stress how true it is through the internet.

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Has society changed its tune? I'll admit that I've been cooped up in research labs and other places of academia for a few years, and I'm not the most up to date with these things. Are "nerds" now desirable, or has anime become such a mainstream hobby that you're not a "nerd" for engaging in it?

How do you define a nerd in the first place? 24 hours is a very long time to spend, using up 1/8th of that time watching anime doesn't make people any less sociable, and even if a girl doesn't like or absolutely hates anime, she can still let her partner indulge in it without having to feel bad about it.

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Have they changed that around so that the "nerdy girl" remains as she is, and is still desirable?

Sounds like a statement from a cheesy teen show...and is lacking as well; does the girl have to be desirable by men, or by women surrounding her as well?

Well -I- want a relationship without conflict, that's who I am and it is final. Likewise, my male friends know exactly what they want, while women actively pursue something else, wary of stability even if it means constant changes at a certain pace. What you may find offensive is my life experience, I can't stress how true it is through the internet.

Broadly-defined desires? OK, I'll give you that. It's not quite what I had in mind when making my statements about knowing what you want, but it's valid enough. What I was thinking of dealt with specific desires. For example, you want a relationship without conflict, which is great - so what traits in a woman do you want, in the hopes that it will get you there? There is where things get tricky.

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Originally Posted by Kafriel

How do you define a nerd in the first place? 24 hours is a very long time to spend, using up 1/8th of that time watching anime doesn't make people any less sociable, and even if a girl doesn't like or absolutely hates anime, she can still let her partner indulge in it without having to feel bad about it.

I'm not personally defining nerds, and I feel that this entire tangent about nerds is leading away from the blatant sexism that I called out. I'll explain a bit further regardless, because I'm getting the impression that people misunderstood what I was trying to say.

When I refer to "nerds" I'm referring to society's branding of nerds. Do you like computers and video games? Are you heavily into anime? Do you spend more time at home and/or on the internet than out with other people? I recognize that you're from another country, Kafriel, so perhaps some of these may be a bit off, but within America, if you match any one of these then you're considered anywhere from being "nerdy" to a full-out "nerd."

Psychologically speaking, it doesn't matter how socially adept you are, or how you look. Once you've been branded, that affects you. Some people are more affected than others, of course, and some people seem completely unfazed by labels at all (that's a rarity). That's what I'm getting at.

I'll apologize again to anyone who took offensive to my writings on nerds. None was intended. It's been a decade since I was in grade school (where labels like "nerd" carried a fair amount of weight), and over the past five years or so I've been in places where everyone would qualify as being a "nerd," and they were fine with it. Some even took pride in it. The label doesn't bother me, personally. I recognize that it affects society as a whole, but I've become used to have everyone around me be pretty non-caring about it - I suppose I was making the assumption that it was true for all of us here, but it was a mistake on my part to make that assumption.

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Originally Posted by Kafriel

Sounds like a statement from a cheesy teen show...and is lacking as well; does the girl have to be desirable by men, or by women surrounding her as well?

To answer that, I suppose we'd have to do quite a bit of analysis and defining of terms. I don't have the answer to it, or any thoughts on that. My own interpretation of what I've seen thus far is that society has an image of what an ideal person should look and behave like. The most positive message that society has been able to send regarding "nerds" - from the media forms I've seen - has been either that "there's an ideal person inside of every nerd - they're just one makeover away" or "nerds are entertaining and they're not such bad people." I can't say that I agree with those messages (I'd prefer a message of "be happy with yourself, recognize that everyone has something to offer, and be respectful"), but then I feel that society's media forms generally glorify the shallow and superficial...

Sorry, but you're fulfilling some of your socialization needs by regularly talking to strangers on an internet forum. At the present time, this sort of activity falls outside of society's notion of "normal." Someone who drives 20 MPH above the speed limit might balk at being called a reckless driver, but their actions earn them that classification.

Regardless, you're correct in saying that it's a generalization, and I apologize if it offended you.

It didn't offend me one bit, because it doesn't apply to me. I just think it hurts your point when you're guilty of the thing you're accusing others of doing. Also, you continue to make assumptions even as you defend yourself. Take a look at my profile and see how frequently I post here. What? It's a single post a day? Not sure what world you live in where that qualifies as "regularly talking to strangers." Furthermore, the majority of my posts here are done at work, where I have downtime in my software job.

This forum is a place to alleviate boredom, not a surrogate social life, and I have difficulty believing I'm the only one here who feels that way.

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Originally Posted by Ledgem

Why do you think there's so much conflict in the world, even though governments tend to be run by men? Because people - that term encompasses both genders - tend to run into conflicts. Or do you have a study proving that homosexual couples tend to fight less than heterosexual couples? If so, I'd be very interested to read it.

I don't have any studies, but I do have several gay friends, and they're SIGNIFICANTLY more laid back in their relationships than my straight friends.

People have conflicts on a global scale because of differences in ideologies. Men and women in relationships have conflicts on a personal scale because of differences in perspective. I'll disagree with someone in a different political party on, say, environmental issues, because I have a different set of core beliefs. I'll disagree with a girl about whether or not she should lie to "test my dedication" because we have different ways of assessing devotion.

Between "be clingy when I decide it's appropriate" and "don't be clingy," which seems more rational to you? How about "lying is okay when you're testing devotion" versus "lying is never okay"?

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Originally Posted by Ledgem

What I was thinking of dealt with specific desires. For example, you want a relationship without conflict, which is great - so what traits in a woman do you want, in the hopes that it will get you there? There is where things get tricky.

I want a woman who's able to communicate openly about what she expects and how she's feeling.

What I was thinking of dealt with specific desires. For example, you want a relationship without conflict, which is great - so what traits in a woman do you want, in the hopes that it will get you there? There is where things get tricky.

Just the fundamental stuff: being of at least average health, both physical and mental, not having obsessive-compulsive tendencies, and finally someone who can respect and understand my opinion on most subjects.

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I'll apologize again to anyone who took offensive to my writings on nerds. None was intended.

None taken, I probably misunderstood based on the quote below.

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Once you've been branded, that affects you.

I'll assume you're only talking about school and not society outside of it; otherwise, the cultural differences between us are greater than I had imagined.

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I can't say that I agree with those messages

Every individual's opinion matters though, and to this day I haven't found anyone who would agree with any of these messages, or generalizations of any kind, for that matter - modern society is built on our beliefs, not those we were taught by others.

It didn't offend me one bit, because it doesn't apply to me. I just think it hurts your point when you're guilty of the thing you're accusing others of doing.

There's a huge difference between branding women with an insulting term (in this case, the offense was calling them irrational) and branding people with a term that isn't inherently good or bad. We're all guilty of making generalizations (see what I did just now?) but I feel that you're somehow trying to excuse sexist remarks by calling me a hypocrite. Am I a hypocrite? In this case, sure, you'd technically be right to call me one. Is there a difference between insulting women and grouping people on this forum under a certain term that society would use? Yes. Does technically being a hypocrite make that any less true or offensive? Nope.

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Originally Posted by Gamer_2k4

Also, you continue to make assumptions even as you defend yourself. Take a look at my profile and see how frequently I post here. What? It's a single post a day? Not sure what world you live in where that qualifies as "regularly talking to strangers." Furthermore, the majority of my posts here are done at work, where I have downtime in my software job.

This forum is a place to alleviate boredom, not a surrogate social life, and I have difficulty believing I'm the only one here who feels that way.

Out of curiosity, why did you feel the need to write this paragraph? You're telling me that you didn't feel insulted, so why do you feel the need to defend and explain yourself? I'll tell you right now that I don't care whether you're a nerd or not, and as long as you're happy with your day-to-day life, I don't particularly about it, either. And once again, if you're offended by what I wrote (whether you want to admit to it or not), I apologize. It wasn't my intent.

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Originally Posted by Gamer_2k4

I don't have any studies, but I do have several gay friends, and they're SIGNIFICANTLY more laid back in their relationships than my straight friends.

How many relationships are you thinking about? Even though I ask that, the number you have in mind probably isn't more than enough to be considered anything better than anecdotal. In other words, not good enough proof for a generalization.

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Originally Posted by Gamer_2k4

Between "be clingy when I decide it's appropriate" and "don't be clingy," which seems more rational to you? How about "lying is okay when you're testing devotion" versus "lying is never okay"?

You're posing these loaded questions under the assumptions that all or most women engage in those sorts of behaviors, and that men do not. I think that's a flawed assumption. However, I also recognize that the only proof I have of calling that out is anecdotal, which is the same as yours; thus, we'll have to agree to disagree, but I would hope that you approach women with an open mind and recognize that many women do not engage in the irrational patterns of behavior that you're thinking of.

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Originally Posted by Gamer_2k4

I want a woman who's able to communicate openly about what she expects and how she's feeling.

See? That wasn't so tricky.

That's still not what I was getting at, but as of now I can't think of a better way to describe it than I already have.

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Originally Posted by Kafriel

I'll assume you're only talking about school and not society outside of it; otherwise, the cultural differences between us are greater than I had imagined.

I don't imagine that there are cultural differences, but I'm probably not being clear. It applies within society, as well. It deals with personal identity - how you perceive yourself, how you think that others perceive you, and how others actually perceive you. There are many things that go into that, and labels are a part of it (although the strength of their influence depends on the individual).

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Originally Posted by Kafriel

Every individual's opinion matters though, and to this day I haven't found anyone who would agree with any of these messages, or generalizations of any kind, for that matter - modern society is built on our beliefs, not those we were taught by others.

That seems a bit circular, since our beliefs are either influenced by or verbatim learned from others.

Out of curiosity, why did you feel the need to write this paragraph? You're telling me that you didn't feel insulted, so why do you feel the need to defend and explain yourself?

Because I had made a statement ("this doesn't apply to me") and an implication ("I'm calling this stereotyping because it doesn't apply to others") and I was backing those up.

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Originally Posted by Ledgem

How many relationships are you thinking about? Even though I ask that, the number you have in mind probably isn't more than enough to be considered anything better than anecdotal. In other words, not good enough proof for a generalization.

Two or three. Statistically, it's 100%. =P

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Originally Posted by Ledgem

You're posing these loaded questions under the assumptions that all or most women engage in those sorts of behaviors, and that men do not. I think that's a flawed assumption. However, I also recognize that the only proof I have of calling that out is anecdotal, which is the same as yours; thus, we'll have to agree to disagree, but I would hope that you approach women with an open mind and recognize that many women do not engage in the irrational patterns of behavior that you're thinking of.

You're right that many women do not. However, the fact that multiple people had such an experience with a woman, while no one said, "Yeah, but my buddy/boyfriend/whatever did the same thing," combined with my other "irrational" experiences with women IRL, leads me to believe that the problem is more common in women than men.

I'll assume you're only talking about school and not society outside of it; otherwise, the cultural differences between us are greater than I had imagined.

If you believe you can't be "branded" outside of school life then you're in for some serious disappointment in life. Every social circle any one person gets involved in throughout his life will brand people one way or another, it's just that school life is such a common event that involves so many different kinds of people that it ends up being where such branding can take a larger toll on people.