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you're right, but there were plans prior to Gateway Project on Extending to Seacaucus

That's true; I think that was a dumb idea and stand by my assertion that you'd be carrying a lot of air if you did that, whereas a Jersey City-Newark via Hoboken connection would take a load off the 126 (which I think is one of the busiest NJT short-haul routes; that route runs buses every 1-2 minutes in peak direction and most of them are full) as well as off the PATH and the 1 bus (which runs something like every 15-20 to Jersey City and those buses are super full because the Newark stretch of the 1 does a lot of heavy lifting)

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That's true; I think that was a dumb idea and stand by my assertion that you'd be carrying a lot of air if you did that, whereas a Jersey City-Newark via Hoboken connection would take a load off the 126 (which I think is one of the busiest NJT short-haul routes; that route runs buses every 1-2 minutes in peak direction and most of them are full) as well as off the PATH and the 1 bus (which runs something like every 15-20 to Jersey City and those buses are super full because the Newark stretch of the 1 does a lot of heavy lifting)

Also Much better is to extend at least to 14th Street and Little Neck - Marathon Parkway.

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Also Much better is to extend at least to 14th Street and Little Neck - Marathon Parkway.

I still think the sweet spot for the is around Bell Blvd; that's enough to let you reconfigure the bus network around Bayside/Flushing/Auburndale and it wouldn't make sense to go all the way out to Little Neck unless you upzoned the f**k out of it (and frankly if you did that you'd need to add new subway relief for northern Queens because the is bursting at the seams as it is.

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Newark Airport would be hard to swing because the PATH is already getting extended there, and swinging across through Secaucus probably isn't the best idea. I used to commute out to Newark and Secaucus is in the middle of bumf**k nowhere; the spot where you'd really want to send the if you were going to extend it to Jersey (which would be jurisdictionally really complex to do and not super likely) would be through Hamilton Park and down JFK Blvd, either straight down to Danforth or with a turn west over Kearny to serve the Ironbound before hitting Newark Penn; again, the jurisdictional issues would make that really hard to pull off. As far as the eastern end is concerned you probably don't need to go all the way out; the sweet spot is probably Bell Blvd because it would let you reconfigure the buses around Flushing and Bayside.

Agreed that Bell Blvd, possibly even Springfield, is the sweet spot for a extension that would be a real game changer for public transit in Northeast Queens. Once you pass over the Cross Island Parkway on Northern, you can really see just how much the density in the development drops off. It’s very noticeable. As for the other end of the , I’ve always had my reasons for not extending it to Jersey without going further east in Queens first. Putting logistics and politics aside, probably the best place to extend the in Jersey would be through Hoboken, Union City and Jersey City, as those are some hugely dense areas of population, with a significant amount of transit riders.

18 hours ago, subwayfan1998 said:

you're right, but there were plans prior to Gateway Project on Extending to Seacaucus

Yes, Bloomberg wanted to do it. But his idea was to just extend the to Secaucus through densely populated Hoboken and Union City without stopping in either place. This was just after newly-elected Gov. Christie pulled NJ out of the ARC Tunnel project. There was just so much wrong about that idea and so many people on both sides of the Hudson who would have good reason to be pissed over it (if it had a realistic chance of happening).

I’m not completely against the idea of extending the or to Jersey. It’s really not any different than proposing extending HBLR or PATH to Staten Island (which have been proposed on more than one occasion). And we certainly could use another trans-Hudson rail connection on top of two new Amtrak/NJT tunnels to Penn (not like Donald cares!).

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Agreed that Bell Blvd, possibly even Springfield, is the sweet spot for a extension that would be a real game changer for public transit in Northeast Queens. Once you pass over the Cross Island Parkway on Northern, you can really see just how much the density in the development drops off. It’s very noticeable. As for the other end of the , I’ve always had my reasons for not extending it to Jersey without going further east in Queens first. Putting logistics and politics aside, probably the best place to extend the in Jersey would be through Hoboken, Union City and Jersey City, as those are some hugely dense areas of population, with a significant amount of transit riders.

Yes, Bloomberg wanted to do it. But his idea was to just extend the to Secaucus through densely populated Hoboken and Union City without stopping in either place. There was just so much wrong about that idea and so many people on both sides of the Hudson who would have good reason to be pissed over it (if it had a realistic chance of happening).

I’m not completely against the idea of extending the to Jersey. It’s not any different than proposing extending HBLR or PATH to Staten Island (which have been proposed on more than one occasion). And we certainly could use another trans-Hudson rail connection on top of two new Amtrak/NJT tunnels to Penn (not like Donald cares!).

I think Little Neck’s too far out. It’s well past the Cross Island Parkway, and the density has dropped off significantly long before you get to Marathon Parkway. So much so that it’s not very easy to tell where Queens ends and Nassau County starts. I feel that the residents living that far east (Little Neck/Douglaston) would be much less likely to switch from the railroad to the .

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I agree that the to Secaucus is a bad idea. Any NJTransit train that goes to Secaucus either goes to Hoboken or Penn Station. If you are going to Penn Station, you don't need the , and if you are going to Hoboken, you could transfer to the there instead.

However, I think that sending the to Hoboken would be very helpful (if they could get the NY/NJ Bureaucracy out of the way). Any new capacity across the Hudson River is needed. It would also take some load of the PATH, which would give it room for more expansion (maybe extending the yellow line to Newark and adding a line to the airport or Elizabeth)

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Agreed that Bell Blvd, possibly even Springfield, is the sweet spot for a extension that would be a real game changer for public transit in Northeast Queens. Once you pass over the Cross Island Parkway on Northern, you can really see just how much the density in the development drops off. It’s very noticeable. As for the other end of the , I’ve always had my reasons for not extending it to Jersey without going further east in Queens first. Putting logistics and politics aside, probably the best place to extend the in Jersey would be through Hoboken, Union City and Jersey City, as those are some hugely dense areas of population, with a significant amount of transit riders.

Yes, Bloomberg wanted to do it. But his idea was to just extend the to Secaucus through densely populated Hoboken and Union City without stopping in either place. There was just so much wrong about that idea and so many people on both sides of the Hudson who would have good reason to be pissed over it (if it had a realistic chance of happening).

I’m not completely against the idea of extending the to Jersey. It’s not any different than proposing extending HBLR or PATH to Staten Island (which have been proposed on more than one occasion). And we certainly could use another trans-Hudson rail connection on top of two new Amtrak/NJT tunnels to Penn (not like Donald cares!).

I'm pretty sure the idea was basically to use the as a bootleg Gateway supplement/replacement or to share the Meadowlands crowds with NJT, but considering how packed the NJT 1, 126, and PATH are a relief line through JC and Hoboken is a much better use of that capacity. As a former commuter to/from the Newark Ironbound my dream would be a to Irvington via Springfield Av/Ferry St/JFK Blvd/Newark St/Washington St; you'd effectively take enormous loads off the NJT 1, 25, and 126 this way and provide a backup for the PATH (especially considering that PATH runs every 15 on the weekends).

10 minutes ago, subwayfan1998 said:

What if extended to Little Neck - Marathon Parkway

One of three things would happen; either the neighbors would pitch an epic shitfit and it wouldn't happen, the trains would be running mostly empty to Bell Blvd and the build would have eaten money that could have gone to SAS, fixing the or other projects, or Douglaston and Little Neck would get heavily upzoned and we'd need to build northern Queens relief lines ASAP to manage the resultant crowding.

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There are so many thing wrong with this, but I will focus on a few main issues:

- The line doesn't go past Mott for a reason and if it did the furthest it would go would probably be the LIRR station.

- LOL! Nobody in Cambria Heights wants a slow-ass C train; the only way a line to Cambria Heights would be useful was if Fulton was extended under Pitkin, Liberty, Van Wyck and Linden (even so, the furthest I would go would be Springfield or Farmers)

- QBL doesn't need more branching

- figure it out why this would suck

- yeah, let's make it even worse

- this line doesn't go to the Bronx for good reason

- Congrats! You have created another and further crowded the !

- any SI route should come from NJ (PATH) as Brooklyn won't save time over the express bus and Manhattan would be prohibitively expensive unless the MTA reined in costs

- any extension of the F would probably require you to send it express via Hillside and Culver as it would be unbearably long for train crews otherwise

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There are so many thing wrong with this, but I will focus on a few main issues:

- The line doesn't go past Mott for a reason and if it did the furthest it would go would probably be the LIRR station.

- LOL! Nobody in Cambria Heights wants a slow-ass C train; the only way a line to Cambria Heights would be useful was if Fulton was extended under Pitkin, Liberty, Van Wyck and Linden (even so, the furthest I would go would be Springfield or Farmers)

- QBL doesn't need more branching

- figure it out why this would suck

- yeah, let's make it even worse

- this line doesn't go to the Bronx for good reason

- Congrats! You have created another and further crowded the !

- any SI route should come from NJ (PATH) as Brooklyn won't save time over the express bus and Manhattan would be prohibitively expensive unless the MTA reined in costs

- any extension of the F would probably require you to send it express via Hillside and Culver as it would be unbearably long for train crews otherwise

How i would crowded the , can go to Leffert Blvd.

- I Understand

- why you consider Train Slow? Even i Mentioned Pitkin.

- why wouldn't QBL need Branching

- Why would it be Suck?

- why worse?

- why crowding the , can go to Lefferts.

- Staten Islanders want to a Subway that goes to Manhattan.

- ok!

Have you heard of Queensrail, Former LIRR Branch that many want to extend the Subway Line.

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The 2 tracks over the Willamsburg Bridge and the other 2 from Nassau St Line form a 4 track line going up First Ave starting at Delancey. There will be a stop at 8th St/1st Ave to serve the Tompkins Sq area. Then the line turns west down 15th st and has a stop at Union Sq for Connections to the . The line then continues down 15th St until turning up 5th Ave with these stops:

23rd St (connect to M23 SBS )

34th St (Connect to M34 SBS)

42st (Connect to )

50st (Connect to )

58st (Connect to )

Lex/63rd (Connect to )

The line then splits: The 2 tracks from Nassau go into the 63rd St Tunnel and down the existing QB Express. The 2 Tracks from the Willy B go up 2nd Ave to 125th St/Lex.

run under new tracks under 64th st with a new stop at 64th/2nd to connect to the . Then the run up express tracks under the SAS to 3rd Ave/138St in The Bronx where they run under 3rd Ave and Webster Ave to Gun Hill. The runs under a new line along 52nd St with stops at 5th and Lex Avs then into Queens under 45th rd and Jackson Ave with stops at Court Sq and Queens Plaza. The and trains run into the new Queens Bypass under the LIRR with stops at Woodside ( ), Grand Ave, 63rd Drive, 71st Ave, Union Turnpike and Hillside/Queens Blvd (Transfer to ) where it continues down Hillside Ave to 179th St. The existing QB line has the running express to Jamaica Center and the taking over local service from Forest Hills.

Thank you for being the only person on these forum so far to back me up on this! As a person living in the rockaways, it is incredibly frustrating when an A shows up for the first time in 8 minutes and it is going to Ozone Park

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Thank you for being the only person on these forum so far to back me up on this! As a person living tin the rockaways, it is incredibly frustrating when an A shows up for the first time in 8 minutes and it is going to Ozone Park

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There's no way for this to work and there's nothing at Reads Lane to merit an extension. You'd need to make a Crescent St-type curve onto Mott Av and another one onto Cornaga Av, and there's no density out there to support the train anyway. Honestly, if the was going to be extended any further along the Rockaways it would be along the Far Rockaway Branch ROW and would probably be to Gibson along the existing LIRR tracks.

It makes no sense to send a local all the way out there without a corresponding express; nobody's gonna want to take it and it's going to empty out the moment there's a chance to transfer (probably onto the ). My comments about the time differential between the and the upthread would also apply here; there would be no reason to stay on the and everyone would hop to the to save time. You could redesignate half the trains as trains, and then send the and the together along Pitkin Av/Rockaway Bl (Linden's a poor choice because there's nothing on Linden), and even then realistically I'd only extend the new line as far as Springfield Blvd, see my discussion on breakeven points for extensions about why.

Possible, but probably not the best use of the trackage. You'd be adding a merge at QBP that would jam up the and pretty well, and if you were going to use a line to serve the Rockaways that way I don't think it's a great idea to use the local for it. Also if you branch off QBP partway through you wind up reducing the TPH that can go out to 71 Av, which doesn't work so well if you expect the eastern end of that corridor to carry.

That's honestly a bit long; I'd probably go out to Springfield/Braddock in order to save money for other projects and avoid carrying air, and you'd want to run it express at least to 179 St to keep runtime down.

Looping the is a pretty reasonable idea given that you'd wind up significantly improving a number of intra-Queens trips by making it unnecessary to go into Manhattan or deal with the to get to SW Queens/Ridgewood; I'd probably send it under Eliot Av, make Woodhaven an express stop and then terminate it there. I'd probably also wrap the at 179 St as the local so that runtimes don't get too long.

This is a pretty bad plan. You've now capped all the QBL local services at 7.5TPH (assuming 30TPH/track pair ceiling under current plans), which means that QBL/Hillside local is gonna get only 15 local TPH (down from 30 today) and they'll flip out. Furthermore, you're making the insanely long under this plan. Kings Highway to 4 Av is 25 minutes, 4 Av to Court Sq is another 25 minutes, the run from Queens Plaza to Woodhaven is another 20, and then from Woodhaven to Rockaway Beach is probably another 25-30, which would give you an end-to-end runtime on the of about two hours give or take. Also, at that length anything that goes wrong on QBL, Culver or Rockaway will back up the , and anything wrong with the is going to trash runtimes on the , which carry a ton of people and are already pretty overstressed as it is.

Why cut it off at 125 St? The 3 Av/north Bronx corridor could use an express, and the are already on the local tracks for 2 Av. Also, see my comments on the section for why running something all the way out to Cambria Heights is a bad idea.

Interesting idea but I don't really think Lafayette is the best place to send it because of the lack of bus system connectivity. It would probably make more sense to send it along Bruckner to Bay Plaza rather than through Lafayette, and you could send this to Euclid via a new tunnel from Whitehall to Court St

These are both at least somewhat reasonable ideas, but I would really recommend trimming the to Bell Blvd and following a routing more along the lines of Astoria Blvd/Northern Blvd to supplement service.

The is already super long and unwieldy as it is; extending it out to Floral Park-263 St would add another 25-30 minutes and now it's two hours plus end-to-end, and the QBL proposal would also cap it out at 7.5tph peak.

Again, you're now running three services on the 4 Av local tracks and I'm not really sure of the wisdom of doing that; that's also another merge that the and the now have to deal with. You might have the TPH for this because you've wrecked QBL local to the point where the is capped at 7.5tph, and if you have the running 7.5 and the running 15 the could take the remaining 7.5, but that then leaves Broadway local capped out at 15tph total because of the combination of decisions you made earlier.

Mariners Harbour to Tottenville-Craig Ave via Richmond Ave

There's not gonna be the ridership to do that on heavy rail; I could maybe see a thing where the HBLR runs on Richmond to Eltingville TC, but south of there the density just wouldn't be there to support rapid transit at the moment; you could possibly extend HBLR over the median of the parkway between the Drumgoole Roads but I don't know if there would be the ridership to justify it.

South Ferry to 261st-Van Cortlandt Park

Nope. There is not the density along Broadway to support subway service north of 242nd St, and the buses run really quickly and efficiently between 242nd St and the county line; it's basically the same situation as sending the to Floral Park

I don't think it would make sense to go all the way to 238 St. What you'd wind up doing if you were going to extend the north would probably be to relocate 148 St under the yard and at a 45 degree angle, then deal with a downsloping 90 degree S-curve to swing under the Hudson and pop up on Ogden by 167 St in order to run the up Ogden/MLK Blvd to Fordham Rd (where you'd probably want to wrap it up). You might also need to demolish 145 St to give yourself the horizontal room to drop below the yard before entering the new 148 St, and I have no idea how you'd manage to build that lower level while successfully underpinning the trainyard and the apartment building overtop it.

The 261 St extension is a bad idea for reasons I outlined above; the Gowanus/4 Av connection maybe less so? Also if you're doing that are you turning the at South Ferry because you think that Gowanus only really needs 15tph peak? I'm uncertain of the wisdom here; I'd probably personally prefer to use the to serve as a Fordham/Pelham crosstown north of Dyckman St because that's also a currently untapped market.

Woodlawn to Floyd Bennett Field via Utica Ave Local and Flatbush Ave.

I'm not sure why you want to use the IRT to do this; it would make more sense to turn the BMT Jamaica Line into a full four-track trunk built to IND standards (600' trains, 660' platforms) and have the Utica Av service function as a branch of that trunk.