Since Canada, Mercedes have been faster than Ferrari in every race apart from Hungary. What makes you think this trend will suddenly change?

Vettel's season feels like Schumacher in 1998. No matter how good you drive, if your car isn't good enough you won't win.

I think Ferrari was faster in Spa, most pundits and anaylists thought the same.Austria was it 0.6 at the finish. Then there was obviously Baku, Monza, Silverstone, Canada. Just alot of tracks which suit the Merc.

Singapore will suit Ferrari. After that its anyones guess. Depends on temperatures, Ferraris new engine update etc.

You can look at every track and see advantages for Merc and Ferrari.

Like Brazil has the twisty middle sector but the straight uphill in the 3rd sector. Japan and Abu Dhabi have sectors like that.

Vettel will be back in the lead after Singapore then I see it as a race by race scenario.

I hope you're right. Singapore and Abu Dhabi I feel Ferrari will be better/challenge but I'm not convinced about Japan, Malaysia, Mexico, USA or Brazil. Also Mercedes are pretty much always going to be starting ahead.

Since Canada, Mercedes have been faster than Ferrari in every race apart from Hungary. What makes you think this trend will suddenly change?

Vettel's season feels like Schumacher in 1998. No matter how good you drive, if your car isn't good enough you won't win.

I think Ferrari was faster in Spa, most pundits and anaylists thought the same.Austria was it 0.6 at the finish. Then there was obviously Baku, Monza, Silverstone, Canada. Just alot of tracks which suit the Merc.

Singapore will suit Ferrari. After that its anyones guess. Depends on temperatures, Ferraris new engine update etc.

You can look at every track and see advantages for Merc and Ferrari.

Like Brazil has the twisty middle sector but the straight uphill in the 3rd sector. Japan and Abu Dhabi have sectors like that.

Vettel will be back in the lead after Singapore then I see it as a race by race scenario.

I hope you're right. Singapore and Abu Dhabi I feel Ferrari will be better/challenge but I'm not convinced about Japan, Malaysia, Mexico, USA or Brazil. Also Mercedes are pretty much always going to be starting ahead.

I think everyone is expecting Ferrari to win in Singapore but at the same time who expected Ferrari to do what they did in Spa? Everyone expected Spa to be similar to Monza so let's wait and see.

Fans can just guess which circuits will suit which cars.

Hamilton does look like his really hyped up since the summer break though.

Horrid weekend for Ferrari, slower than Red Bull so it's got nothing to do with Mercedes vs Ferrari across the season.

Such a strange weekend, we got the expected Spa weekend at Monza and the expected Monza weekend at Spa.

Weird.

_________________"Clark came through at the end of the first lap so far ahead that we in the pits were convinced that the rest of the field must have been wiped out in an accident."-Eddie Dennis, describing the dominance of Jim Clark in the Lotus 49 at Spa 1967

I'd have to ask, is Monza a circuit where driver ability can really make any difference compared with the difference the engine/aero makes?

Engine,traction,aero efficiency and ability to ride the kerbs without unsettling the car.

Not really a tricky one though but some drivers handle the kerbs better yeah.

_________________"Clark came through at the end of the first lap so far ahead that we in the pits were convinced that the rest of the field must have been wiped out in an accident."-Eddie Dennis, describing the dominance of Jim Clark in the Lotus 49 at Spa 1967

There was a suggestion the Ferrari doesn't have good aero efficiency in Baku which hurt their ERS. Maybe those sidepods are a gem for d/f but they do sit high to force the air under so maybe a bad drag penalty?. Along with SWB it could be painful.

_________________"Clark came through at the end of the first lap so far ahead that we in the pits were convinced that the rest of the field must have been wiped out in an accident."-Eddie Dennis, describing the dominance of Jim Clark in the Lotus 49 at Spa 1967

There was a suggestion the Ferrari doesn't have good aero efficiency in Baku which hurt their ERS. Maybe those sidepods are a gem for d/f but they do sit high to force the air under so maybe a bad drag penalty?. Along with SWB it could be painful.

Did Ferrari have to change there floor at some point in the season? I'm sure they did but couldn't remember when.

What a difference a week makes. Bottas was flying and in SPA he looked so out of sort and Mercedes did not have much advantage there for some reason. But here it was domination. I do not think Bottas will finish 31secs ahead of vettel in other tracks but they should have advantage. Singapore though should suit Ferrari and also RBR

There was a suggestion the Ferrari doesn't have good aero efficiency in Baku which hurt their ERS. Maybe those sidepods are a gem for d/f but they do sit high to force the air under so maybe a bad drag penalty?. Along with SWB it could be painful.

Did Ferrari have to change there floor at some point in the season? I'm sure they did but couldn't remember when.

They did yeah but were said to have regained 70% of the d/f lost in a later article. They also had a device on the car which cut drag on the straights by closing the air flow through the front axle but kept it open in the corners and it was deemed as a moveable aero device so was banned as well after Baku.

_________________"Clark came through at the end of the first lap so far ahead that we in the pits were convinced that the rest of the field must have been wiped out in an accident."-Eddie Dennis, describing the dominance of Jim Clark in the Lotus 49 at Spa 1967

Ever since Canada, Mercedes have enjoyed roughly a 2011-Red Bull advantage over the rest of the field.

I'd somewhat agree. A very slight but consistent edge.

Interestingly I've always believed an inform Hamilton would have put up a bit of a challenge for that championship. Vettel's best season to date IMO.

His '13 season was way better.

Nah. 2011 he was brilliant from start to finish. 2013 he had a good but not superb start and then just had it way to easy in the second half. Difficult to know how well a driver performed with no competition.

It's simple to see the difference at this point guys. Mercedes are stronger overall in high speed/low downforce tracks while Ferrari are stronger in low speed/high downforce tracks. High speed/high downforce tracks can go to either team.

While Mercedes were clearly stronger here, Vettel did say that he had an off and then was nursing a problem. Kimi was also complaining of problems with the rear early on. I don't think the 30 second gap is exactly representative. The Mercs were quicker though without question and unless Ferrari have the edge in Singapore like we expect, we may have to consider the possibility that they have been out-developed.https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/13162 ... te-problem

Vettel also said after Friday running that they had some work to do on the car on Saturday to get it where they needed, then saturday was rained off. So its not the best comparison, Ferrari probably would have gone better if they had Saturday practice. Mercedes still would have won but Ferrari might have been comfortably 3-4 if they dialed the car in more.

Its also worth noted that Mercedes were not quick in Spa last year either...

Kimi Raikkonen should have started on pole in Spa last year, 0.1 quicker than Nico Rosberg on best sector times. Verstappen was also 0.1 off pole too. Its the closest anybody got to them in qualifying all year (except Monaco). Then in the race, Hamilton who was 4th after a SC could not beat Daniel Ricciardo to 2nd place. It was definitely in Mercedes worst 2-3 races last year but went under the radar a bit as the car was so good everywhere.

Then last year, the next race in Monza they completely dominated again (Hamilton on pole by 8 tenths), same story as this year. In fact the Mercedes strength and weaknesses has transferred across nearly perfectly from last year to this year despite the rule changes. Their best two tracks all of last year were Baku and Silverstone - same again this year.

Judging by last years times, Mercedes seem most vulnerable in Singapore, Japan and Mexico. People are talking up Ferrari for Malaysia, but to me that seems like a Mercedes track (high temps permitting) as does AD which a lot of people see as favouring Ferrari slightly.

The biggest negating factor was Hamilton lifting and ruining Vettels best chance to overtake. Without that lift, Vettel sits in the slipstream for 3-4 seconds more and sails by.

Vettel wouldn't have been that close if Hamilton had been in the correct engine setting in the first place. I'm still firmly convinced the Mercedes was the car to have at Spa even if it might have had an advantage with regards to ultimate race pace in free air.

While Mercedes were clearly stronger here, Vettel did say that he had an off and then was nursing a problem.

Vettel had an off in lap 40, when he was already 27 seconds behind. His lap times after that gradually got faster so I'm not sure the problem was that big. Maybe he felt it, but it didn't have much bearing on the times.

It's only because alot of circuits which benefit Mercedes have come after Monaco. Finishing results have looked like 2011 but the Redbull was ridicolous. How often does the Mercedes finish way up he road from Ferrari? Hardly ever. Ferrari could have won in Austria and Spa so they wasn't exactly dominant for Mercedes.Not being able to overtake and one stop races help the leader into turn 1. One stop races are very boring.

Problem is no one will know about Monza now, both cars running different races and people will just say the Mercedes was dominant because it will most likely win. Look at Spa and most reports say the Ferrari would have won if the SC didn't come out, Far from expected.

Bang on! I dont see how anyone can compare this "dominance" to the 2011 redbull. But some people do have their agendas. Lets see what it looks like after Singapore.

It's only because alot of circuits which benefit Mercedes have come after Monaco. Finishing results have looked like 2011 but the Redbull was ridicolous. How often does the Mercedes finish way up he road from Ferrari? Hardly ever. Ferrari could have won in Austria and Spa so they wasn't exactly dominant for Mercedes.Not being able to overtake and one stop races help the leader into turn 1. One stop races are very boring.

Problem is no one will know about Monza now, both cars running different races and people will just say the Mercedes was dominant because it will most likely win. Look at Spa and most reports say the Ferrari would have won if the SC didn't come out, Far from expected.

Bang on! I dont see how anyone can compare this "dominance" to the 2011 redbull. But some people do have their agendas. Lets see what it looks like after Singapore.

That's all it is. Mostly it's people in the forum serving their own agendas (which have little to do with the teams and everything to do with the drivers). It's actually completely transparent when you look at who's pushing that agenda...

That's all it is. Mostly it's people in the forum serving their own agendas (which have little to do with the teams and everything to do with the drivers). It's actually completely transparent when you look at who's pushing that agenda...

It's only because alot of circuits which benefit Mercedes have come after Monaco. Finishing results have looked like 2011 but the Redbull was ridicolous. How often does the Mercedes finish way up he road from Ferrari? Hardly ever. Ferrari could have won in Austria and Spa so they wasn't exactly dominant for Mercedes.Not being able to overtake and one stop races help the leader into turn 1. One stop races are very boring.

Problem is no one will know about Monza now, both cars running different races and people will just say the Mercedes was dominant because it will most likely win. Look at Spa and most reports say the Ferrari would have won if the SC didn't come out, Far from expected.

Bang on! I dont see how anyone can compare this "dominance" to the 2011 redbull. But some people do have their agendas. Lets see what it looks like after Singapore.

That's all it is. Mostly it's people in the forum serving their own agendas (which have little to do with the teams and everything to do with the drivers). It's actually completely transparent when you look at who's pushing that agenda...

I am a Hamilton fan and I think so far the 2017 Mercedes is comparable to the 2011 Red Bull. Both are very strong in qualifying, both great in the race. The biggest difference being the Mercedes is harder to get dialled in every weekend but that seems to have improved.

At this point in the year, the Red Bull had only won 6 of the first 11 races. They ended up winning 12 out of 19 races, Mercedes are currently on 8 out of 13 - it depends how the rest of the year pans out but Mercedes could end up at a similar level to that car. Mclaren was the better car for about 5 or 6 races in 2011. The 2017 Ferrari could end up being the better car for a similar number this year. I think that Red Bull was the best package for approximately 13 out of 19 races in 2011.

At the moment, I see Mercedes being the better package this year about 8-5 up over Ferrari. It depends how these last 7 races go, it will likely be 8-6 after this weekend. Then the last 6 races, if they favour Mercedes you end up with something like 13-7 and its 2011 Red Bull territory. If Ferrari have good form then maybe it ends up more like 11-9 which is a very close season.

Throw in reliability (Mercedes already lost 1 win due to part failure) and the Ferrari can still end the season as the best overall package or at least equal.

It's only because alot of circuits which benefit Mercedes have come after Monaco. Finishing results have looked like 2011 but the Redbull was ridicolous. How often does the Mercedes finish way up he road from Ferrari? Hardly ever. Ferrari could have won in Austria and Spa so they wasn't exactly dominant for Mercedes.Not being able to overtake and one stop races help the leader into turn 1. One stop races are very boring.

Problem is no one will know about Monza now, both cars running different races and people will just say the Mercedes was dominant because it will most likely win. Look at Spa and most reports say the Ferrari would have won if the SC didn't come out, Far from expected.

Bang on! I dont see how anyone can compare this "dominance" to the 2011 redbull. But some people do have their agendas. Lets see what it looks like after Singapore.

That's all it is. Mostly it's people in the forum serving their own agendas (which have little to do with the teams and everything to do with the drivers). It's actually completely transparent when you look at who's pushing that agenda...

I am a Hamilton fan and I think so far the 2017 Mercedes is comparable to the 2011 Red Bull. Both are very strong in qualifying, both great in the race. The biggest difference being the Mercedes is harder to get dialled in every weekend but that seems to have improved.

At this point in the year, the Red Bull had only won 6 of the first 11 races. They ended up winning 12 out of 19 races, Mercedes are currently on 8 out of 13 - it depends how the rest of the year pans out but Mercedes could end up at a similar level to that car. Mclaren was the better car for about 5 or 6 races in 2011. The 2017 Ferrari could end up being the better car for a similar number this year. I think that Red Bull was the best package for approximately 13 out of 19 races in 2011.

At the moment, I see Mercedes being the better package this year about 8-5 up over Ferrari. It depends how these last 7 races go, it will likely be 8-6 after this weekend. Then the last 6 races, if they favour Mercedes you end up with something like 13-7 and its 2011 Red Bull territory. If Ferrari have good form then maybe it ends up more like 11-9 which is a very close season.

Throw in reliability (Mercedes already lost 1 win due to part failure) and the Ferrari can still end the season as the best overall package or at least equal.

I always respect your views but I think you are mis-remembering things a bit. In 2011 The McLaren was the second best car but there was a very clear and distinct edge to Red Bull. The margin wasn't huge but it was consistently in Red Bull's favor with only few exceptions. This year the cars are basically even to this point (with the notable exception of qualifying where Mercedes generally have an edge). In several races the Ferrari has been noticeably faster. Even in qualifying they have locked out the front row multiple times already. The 2011 Red Bull set 18 pole positions in 19 races and was generally running off into the distance half the time. Only Webber's KERS failures and start issues (the two are related) alter the perception of that year.

Don't make the mistake of assuming that similar results mean similar car matchup.

At this point of the season Mercedes have a clear advantage. Until Canada it was nip-and-tuck between the teams with Mercedes having the qualifying/track position advantage on the majority of tracks. In Spa I don't think Hamilton was driving all-out.. he had no problem holding Vettel 1.5 seconds behind at will and I believe he was hoping Ricciardo would close the gap in to Vettel which never materialized. In Monza Mercedes dominated with their engines turned down for over half the race. Ferrari is yet to dominate any qualifying or race. Hopefully Ferrari was just off-form in Monza because if not it'll be another easy Hamilton title.

At this point of the season Mercedes have a clear advantage. Until Canada it was nip-and-tuck between the teams with Mercedes having the qualifying/track position advantage on the majority of tracks. In Spa I don't think Hamilton was driving all-out.. he had no problem holding Vettel 1.5 seconds behind at will and I believe he was hoping Ricciardo would close the gap in to Vettel which never materialized. In Monza Mercedes dominated with their engines turned down for over half the race. Ferrari is yet to dominate any qualifying or race. Hopefully Ferrari was just off-form in Monza because if not it'll be another easy Hamilton title.

I think Ferrari could have dominated more races, if they could have an improved qualifying. There have been races where they clearly look to have the pace, but their lack of track position at the start has hindered them.

Mercedes have also, mostly, came out ok on strategy this season. Spa was looking a worry for them if not for the safety car, but I don't think they had a guaranteed strategy which would have worked anyway. This also leads me to believe Hamilton was driving all out, why risk the undercut? And his tyres were clearly dying quicker.

At this point of the season Mercedes have a clear advantage. Until Canada it was nip-and-tuck between the teams with Mercedes having the qualifying/track position advantage on the majority of tracks. In Spa I don't think Hamilton was driving all-out.. he had no problem holding Vettel 1.5 seconds behind at will and I believe he was hoping Ricciardo would close the gap in to Vettel which never materialized. In Monza Mercedes dominated with their engines turned down for over half the race. Ferrari is yet to dominate any qualifying or race. Hopefully Ferrari was just off-form in Monza because if not it'll be another easy Hamilton title.

At Spa it looked to me like Vettel was being held up by Hamilton. Keeping a 1.5 second gap is not controlling things because that's close enough to get undercut on pit stops. I think Vettel could have probably gapped Hamilton had he ever found a way by him. Monza was definitely a dominant run but you're wrong in saying Ferrari have never dominated a weekend. They totally dominated Monaco. If Ferrari win in Singapore then I think we will confirm that it really is as simple as they are better on lower speed and higher downforce tracks while Mercedes are better on higher speed and lower downforce tracks.

Now that it has been established, (as a FACT as som like to spell it), that FIA wont be able to have Mercedes follow regulations and therefore have an advantage in qualifying and one lap speed it's quite an uninteresting question for 2017, let's hope that 2018 will be more even in how they follow regulations.

A bit sad that the Merc of 2014-2017 has been caught out as blatantly cheating and all records that being stacked up are heavily stained.

Now that it has been established, (as a FACT as som like to spell it), that FIA wont be able to have Mercedes follow regulations and therefore have an advantage in qualifying and one lap speed it's quite an uninteresting question for 2017, let's hope that 2018 will be more even in how they follow regulations.

A bit sad that the Merc of 2014-2017 has been caught out as blatantly cheating and all records that being stacked up are heavily stained.

Now that it has been established, (as a FACT as som like to spell it), that FIA wont be able to have Mercedes follow regulations and therefore have an advantage in qualifying and one lap speed it's quite an uninteresting question for 2017, let's hope that 2018 will be more even in how they follow regulations.

A bit sad that the Merc of 2014-2017 has been caught out as blatantly cheating and all records that being stacked up are heavily stained.

Now that it has been established, (as a FACT as som like to spell it), that FIA wont be able to have Mercedes follow regulations and therefore have an advantage in qualifying and one lap speed it's quite an uninteresting question for 2017, let's hope that 2018 will be more even in how they follow regulations.

A bit sad that the Merc of 2014-2017 has been caught out as blatantly cheating and all records that being stacked up are heavily stained.

In what way are they blatantly cheating?

Try a search and you will find.

How about you post some evidence for your accusation? That would be the normal way of doing things.

Now that it has been established, (as a FACT as som like to spell it), that FIA wont be able to have Mercedes follow regulations and therefore have an advantage in qualifying and one lap speed it's quite an uninteresting question for 2017, let's hope that 2018 will be more even in how they follow regulations.

A bit sad that the Merc of 2014-2017 has been caught out as blatantly cheating and all records that being stacked up are heavily stained.

In what way are they blatantly cheating?

Try a search and you will find.

How about you post some evidence for your accusation? That would be the normal way of doing things.

Exactly. That's a pretty strong claim to make without having some type of proof to support it. I'm assuming his comment is based on the oil burning rumors...