At 12/17/2015 6:09:47 PM, GrittyWorm wrote:I read an article interviewing Atheists. Many said they wished they could believe...

Absolutely!

In the right political climate, there's huge advantage to be had in identifying with a self-privileging, power-hungry lobby-group utterly unaccountable for their beliefs.

Though whether it's 'some' as in your title, or 'many' as in the unsubstantiated claim in the body of your post, remains to be seen.

Do you wish you could believe?

Gritty, there's nothing of any value which Christians have that I don't. An atheist can celebrate the wonder and grandeur of the world, engage in song, art and community fellowship, contribute to charities and community-building; build a coherent and loving moral philosophy, comfort and be comforted in times of grief or despair...

The other things -- the certainty built on denial rather than measured confidence based on fact; the moral and dogmatic absolutism; the grovelling fear of metaphysical supervision; the need for servility; the sanctimonious pretense of humility and the need to feign love of people who irritate and threaten you; the nationalistic jingoism; the tithing; the flattery of a fictional character; the strictures on language and personal expression; the tribalism; the obligation to defend bad ideas from independent critique -- those things, I don't value.

At 12/17/2015 6:09:47 PM, GrittyWorm wrote:I read an article interviewing Atheists. Many said they wished they could believe...

Absolutely!

In the right political climate, there's huge advantage to be had in identifying with a self-privileging, power-hungry lobby-group utterly unaccountable for their beliefs.

Though whether it's 'some' as in your title, or 'many' as in the unsubstantiated claim in the body of your post, remains to be seen.

Do you wish you could believe?

Gritty, there's nothing of any value which Christians have that I don't. An atheist can celebrate the wonder and grandeur of the world, engage in song, art and community fellowship, contribute to charities and community-building; build a coherent and loving moral philosophy, comfort and be comforted in times of grief or despair...

The other things -- the certainty built on denial rather than measured confidence based on fact; the moral and dogmatic absolutism; the grovelling fear of metaphysical supervision; the need for servility; the sanctimonious pretense of humility and the need to feign love of people who irritate and threaten you; the nationalistic jingoism; the tithing; the flattery of a fictional character; the strictures on language and personal expression; the tribalism; the obligation to defend bad ideas from independent critique -- those things, I don't value.

According to historians, there is nothing "fictional" about him. Was Alexander the Great fictional? Neither was Jesus.

At 12/17/2015 6:09:47 PM, GrittyWorm wrote:I read an article interviewing Atheists. Many said they wished they could believe...

Absolutely!

In the right political climate, there's huge advantage to be had in identifying with a self-privileging, power-hungry lobby-group utterly unaccountable for their beliefs.

Though whether it's 'some' as in your title, or 'many' as in the unsubstantiated claim in the body of your post, remains to be seen.

Do you wish you could believe?

Gritty, there's nothing of any value which Christians have that I don't. An atheist can celebrate the wonder and grandeur of the world, engage in song, art and community fellowship, contribute to charities and community-building; build a coherent and loving moral philosophy, comfort and be comforted in times of grief or despair...

The other things -- the certainty built on denial rather than measured confidence based on fact; the moral and dogmatic absolutism; the grovelling fear of metaphysical supervision; the need for servility; the sanctimonious pretense of humility and the need to feign love of people who irritate and threaten you; the nationalistic jingoism; the tithing; the flattery of a fictional character; the strictures on language and personal expression; the tribalism; the obligation to defend bad ideas from independent critique -- those things, I don't value.

According to historians, there is nothing "fictional" about him. Was Alexander the Great fictional? Neither was Jesus.

According to other historians JC is totally mythical. You pays your money and takes your choices.

At 12/17/2015 6:09:47 PM, GrittyWorm wrote:I read an article interviewing Atheists. Many said they wished they could believe...

Absolutely!

In the right political climate, there's huge advantage to be had in identifying with a self-privileging, power-hungry lobby-group utterly unaccountable for their beliefs.

Though whether it's 'some' as in your title, or 'many' as in the unsubstantiated claim in the body of your post, remains to be seen.

Do you wish you could believe?

Gritty, there's nothing of any value which Christians have that I don't. An atheist can celebrate the wonder and grandeur of the world, engage in song, art and community fellowship, contribute to charities and community-building; build a coherent and loving moral philosophy, comfort and be comforted in times of grief or despair...

The other things -- the certainty built on denial rather than measured confidence based on fact; the moral and dogmatic absolutism; the grovelling fear of metaphysical supervision; the need for servility; the sanctimonious pretense of humility and the need to feign love of people who irritate and threaten you; the nationalistic jingoism; the tithing; the flattery of a fictional character; the strictures on language and personal expression; the tribalism; the obligation to defend bad ideas from independent critique -- those things, I don't value.

According to historians, there is nothing "fictional" about him. Was Alexander the Great fictional? Neither was Jesus.

Grtty, from your silence regarding my other points, I understand that you accept and agree with them, and that your only contention is that Jesus (if that's whom I meant) is not a fictional character.

As it happens, I meant not Jesus but the God of Abraham, in whose absence, Jesus -- whether fictional or not -- becomes something of a crank.

Regardless though, you're welcome to contend that Jesus was historical. However, a vague appeal to unnamed historians is not a good way to do it.

At 12/17/2015 6:09:47 PM, GrittyWorm wrote:I read an article interviewing Atheists. Many said they wished they could believe...

Absolutely!

In the right political climate, there's huge advantage to be had in identifying with a self-privileging, power-hungry lobby-group utterly unaccountable for their beliefs.

Though whether it's 'some' as in your title, or 'many' as in the unsubstantiated claim in the body of your post, remains to be seen.

Do you wish you could believe?

Gritty, there's nothing of any value which Christians have that I don't. An atheist can celebrate the wonder and grandeur of the world, engage in song, art and community fellowship, contribute to charities and community-building; build a coherent and loving moral philosophy, comfort and be comforted in times of grief or despair...

The other things -- the certainty built on denial rather than measured confidence based on fact; the moral and dogmatic absolutism; the grovelling fear of metaphysical supervision; the need for servility; the sanctimonious pretense of humility and the need to feign love of people who irritate and threaten you; the nationalistic jingoism; the tithing; the flattery of a fictional character; the strictures on language and personal expression; the tribalism; the obligation to defend bad ideas from independent critique -- those things, I don't value.

According to historians, there is nothing "fictional" about him. Was Alexander the Great fictional? Neither was Jesus.

You can of course name these "historians" who claim this historical Jesus performed all of the miracles attributed to the Jesus of the bible?

At 12/17/2015 6:09:47 PM, GrittyWorm wrote:I read an article interviewing Atheists. Many said they wished they could believe...

Absolutely!

In the right political climate, there's huge advantage to be had in identifying with a self-privileging, power-hungry lobby-group utterly unaccountable for their beliefs.

Though whether it's 'some' as in your title, or 'many' as in the unsubstantiated claim in the body of your post, remains to be seen.

Do you wish you could believe?

no, can you choose what you believe?a major issue that you failed to specify is what we would be believing in?

a god that created the universe and nothing else?a god of limited power?or a supreme god with 1 or more "omni" characteristics?are you capable of being specific enough to name the god you are talking about?

At 12/17/2015 6:09:47 PM, GrittyWorm wrote:I read an article interviewing Atheists. Many said they wished they could believe...

Sure, you can probably find articles of people wishing all kinds of things, that they could fly, eat chocolate every meal or talk to animals, for example. But then, reality sets in.

Marrying a 6 year old and waiting until she reaches puberty and maturity before having consensual sex is better than walking up to
a stranger in a bar and proceeding to have relations with no valid proof of the intent of the person. Muhammad wins. ~ Fatihah
If they don't want to be killed then they have to subdue to the Islamic laws. - Uncung
Without God, you are lower than sh!t. ~ SpiritandTruth

At 12/17/2015 6:09:47 PM, GrittyWorm wrote:I read an article interviewing Atheists. Many said they wished they could believe...

Does rational thinking require the adherence to beliefs at all? Does productive science, ethics, or a satisfied life require any attachment to a belief of any kind? Can we predict future events, act on data, theories, and facts without resorting to the ownership of belief?Beliefs and faiths do not establish "truths" or facts. It does not matter how many people believe or for how many centuries they have believed it. It does not matter how reverent or important people think of them, if it does not agree with evidence, then it simply cannot have any validity to the outside world. All things we know about the world, we can express without referring to a belief. Even at its most benign level, beliefs can act as barriers to further understanding.

I do wish I could believe in a loving personal God that loved me. But I can believe a lie. I consider myself agnostic. There could be a God or inteliigent creator. But as for the christian God. How can we know he is all loving and all knowing? It makes sense to me that the Christian God was created as a means to control the population, to give poor people hope, to comfort the weak. Karl Marx said something like "religion is the opiate of the masses". It gives you satisfaction to believe. To me its all about the red pill vs the blue pill. You take the blue pill and be happy or you take the red pill, reality pill, and you accept what is.

At 12/28/2015 1:16:06 PM, fallenalien wrote:I do wish I could believe in a loving personal God that loved me. But I can believe a lie. I consider myself agnostic. There could be a God or inteliigent creator. But as for the christian God. How can we know he is all loving and all knowing? It makes sense to me that the Christian God was created as a means to control the population, to give poor people hope, to comfort the weak. Karl Marx said something like "religion is the opiate of the masses". It gives you satisfaction to believe. To me its all about the red pill vs the blue pill. You take the blue pill and be happy or you take the red pill, reality pill, and you accept what is.

At 12/28/2015 1:16:06 PM, fallenalien wrote:I do wish I could believe in a loving personal God that loved me. But I can believe a lie. I consider myself agnostic. There could be a God or inteliigent creator. But as for the christian God. How can we know he is all loving and all knowing? It makes sense to me that the Christian God was created as a means to control the population, to give poor people hope, to comfort the weak. Karl Marx said something like "religion is the opiate of the masses". It gives you satisfaction to believe. To me its all about the red pill vs the blue pill. You take the blue pill and be happy or you take the red pill, reality pill, and you accept what is.

At 12/17/2015 6:09:47 PM, GrittyWorm wrote:I read an article interviewing Atheists. Many said they wished they could believe...

Because of what I know and how I reason, I can't believe. If there's no practical difference between believing and not believe in any gods, then there's no practical difference between the existence and non-existence of any gods. Therefore, atheism should be adopted for purely pragmatic reasons.

At 12/17/2015 6:09:47 PM, GrittyWorm wrote:I read an article interviewing Atheists. Many said they wished they could believe...

References, please? When and where was it published?

I wish I could believe. Perhaps if I was deluded into thinking an eternal bliss awaited me upon death, I'd be happier. I tried for years to fool myself. I couldn't bypass my rational thought processes, no matter how hard I tried