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I take pride in the ability to have alot to say.
I also only realised that someone else posted when i saw that there was a second page XD
However, onto the discussions part of the thread:
I think that Hoshino has many a future plot twist in mind, whether it be Lenalee's odd behaviour in Episode 51 of the anime or Rhode's smile at Allen saying "I wish i had relatives" (Or something like that).
Either way you look at it how the story progresses, it seems to me that Hoshino is going to have a twist ending.
For instance, the ending might be Allen and Lenalee on the Ark becoming the next progenitors of humanity, albeit BS since that never actually happened during the 19th century, but, if it's fiction, then bump dat shiz up to 11. Make the most amount of BS possible.
Or, the ending could be Allen dead with Lenalee and Lavi ending up together.
It might possibly be an ending where Allen and Rhode get together and so do Lenalee and Lavi.
Really, who knows? You can only predict so much, but, if Mirai Nikki's plot twist involving Yuno-if-you-watched-the-whole-thing-you-would-understand-what-i-mean you have to think outside the box of the situation but not the series.
As an example, say, it turns out that Innocence is actually made from human sacrifices. There, that would complicate good and evil for a minute there don't you think?
In fact, it ties into a personal theory of mine that the reason Lenalee's Innocence acted as it did and so did Allen's is because the Innocence is made from the original Exorcists, IE the Innocence absorbed them or at least their consciosness.
The way i see it, there might be more than pure evil and pure good at work here, and i think the series is long over due for some moral confliction and smudging of what is right and what is wrong.
After all, the thing is that having the lines between good and evil blurred is good, but, do it too early in the story and things might get needlessly complicated, and that simply isn't good. However, do it too late in the story and the readers will have gotten bored with the self righteous-ness of the main protagonist. Assuming that he isn't some a-hole like Light Yagami, since Death Note whilst i feel that the concept that what Light Yagami was doing was wrong was introduced a little bit too quickly it was still good none the less.
Edit: An idea i was thinking of was that if Allen were to "win" against Neah, and cast him out of his body, then maybe it might be at an inopportune time.
For instance, if say Allen wins against Neah, and puts him in the very deepest pits of his mind, and then got caught by the Black Order afterwards, Neah would then of course choose the nearest availible host to escape, such as how the battle with Lenalee is something to look forward to since it was foreshadowed at in the past might be more interesting with Lenalee possibly becoming the host to Neah. She might even welcome Neah into her body, after all, she loves Allen, and the only way to save him -or so she thinks- might be to rid of The 14th once and for all. Via making him use a different host body instead.
This could cause some pandemonium in the Black Order, not to mention Allen, so this might cause a Mexican stand-off of a sorts that'll force Allen to kick the crap out of Lenalee until The 14th comes back to Allen.
Of course, with any story, comes the b*tches-i-pulled-this-out-my-ass-but-didn't-because-it-actually-makes-sense-as-to-why-this-would-happen plot twist. The plot twist in Mirai Nikki that involved Yuno for instance, not going to say what the plot twist is but let's just say that it makes you think about plot backwards after you see it.
Edit2: I believe that there may be someone stalking Allen.
Call me a conspiracy theorist, but i think that, based upon these images that the same person is in both:
I am basing this on next to no evidence what-so-ever or any real reason as to why someone would be stalking him.

Impressive collection of theories! If there was still more than a few days before the next chapter I'd try to reply to every single one of them but I'm too lazy. So I'll just try my best. (Some great theories you have in there by the way. The innocence being made of human sacrifices would be the perfect plot twist to put in some moral issues. We'd start wondering if maybe the Noah are in fact the good guys.)

1. The fourteenth:
I just went back and re-read some parts, and it seems to me that Master Zhu wasn't talking to Link when he said he'd turned 'him' into the fourteenth. Plus, we already know, Allen is the one at risk of becoming 14th noah at present. And when I think about how long Zhu's been alive, it wouldn't be surpising if he was actually talking about a PREVIOUS fourteenth. He seemed to be in a memory trance after all... It's past obvious now, but it's entirely possible that he was talking about turning Neah into the fourteenth all those years ago, or maybe transferring the fourteenth into Allen's body (first one being much more likely in my opinion).

Originally Posted by DR34DNOISE

Ahem, ah, if the title was for someone that fights against the Earl then why hasn't there been any mention of it? I think that (Possibly) it might be the title for when a Noah betrays the Earl, as it seems highly unlikely that every single Noah over the past 35 years have been just as loyal as dogs, hell even some dogs betray their masters. As so far it seems that Allen is the only Exorcist to become a Noah (Maybe it had happened prior to the incident with the 14th? We don't know much about the Noah's past, do we? Maybe Tykki was an Exorcist at one point).*
I have something that is just a theory as to why that might be wrong.*
Tykki says "Our inner Noah" during the whole incident with the Ark after Skinn Bolic dies, so, it seems to me that maybe the Noah's that are on the Earl's side are actually in control of their Noah side, since it seems to me that Tykki was acting on his own. But, are they truly in control is the question.

There's been lots of mention of the fourteenth and his failed attempts. As we know, the Noah wakes up in a human and takes control. Perhaps in some cases, the noah and human souls amalgamate into one and become indivisible. If you remember, Tykki mentiones how he has 'both' sides, and that that's what keeps it fun. So you see, there's the human, and the Noah. Depending on how long the Noahs' been there, I'd guess the human gives up and really 'becomes' that role. For all we know, the Tykki that plays cards with Allen is really the human side of the pleasure noah and they are in agreement. Tykki being an exorcist however, is a little unlikely otherwise there would have been mention of it at some point. We know that Tykki became a noah within the past 35 years, which is not a long time. Any of the current, 'old' exorcists would have recognized him and something would have been said. There's no reason for Hoshino to not want to reveal something like that because it wouldn't change too much. If Tykki was an exorcist, so what, Allen wasn't the first. But that's all the significance there is. Lol of course the Noahs are in control of their Noah side. I think you meant to say human side? That last couple phrases aren't too clear but I'll take a shot and see if I understood your point. So what you mean is, are the Noah actively deciding to follow the Earl or are they being forcefully placed under his subjugation. Is that right? It's a good idea, and I've always wondered that myself. What did the Earl tell them that they are always so willing to follow? Is he giving some sort of incentive? Or is it that 'familial' bond they have that keeps them together. Maybe it's simply because he's always been in control and the others are not much for change. OR, there's my favourite option, none of them want to be millenium Earl for fear of him and their lack of power. In which case, it wouldn't be impossible (difficult maybe, not impossible) for someone, * allen * to convince them to side with him and to kill the Earl.

Personally, I think they are scared of him. Although they have shown loyalty, they've also shown fear of acting out. The twins tend to behave 'more than usual'. Sheryl doesn't seem to have told the Earl about his little hostage. Maybe if the Earl was fully functioning, sheryl wouldn't be acting that way. They're always worrying about 'how mad the Earl's gonna be' when they mess up. And let's not forget how easy it was for the Earl to subdue the crazed Tykki-pon and take him home. The other noah are like mere children compared to him. But Neah, he seems more on the level of the Earl.

So yes, in summary, I agree that it's possible the human host (bitter as they may be) actually do have a say in what they do or don't.

2.Neah's battle plan:

Originally Posted by DR34DNOISE

While i agree that Neah would try and kill the Earl, i don't really understand his battle plan. After all, if Neah was smart he would have waited until the Black Order was geting closer to the Earl, after all Neah would have to kill all the other Noah (Rhode, Tykki, etc etc) to accomplish his goal, so why not wait until Allen was stronger and had beaten the other Noah? Why not exact revenge just as they were about to beat the Earl? (IE Neah takes over Allen and strikes the Earl down) It seems to me that Neah knows something that the Order doesn't, and so far it seems to the me the only thing that the Order doesn't knw about is the purpose of Akuma.

Oh you're right there for sure. It would be smart, from where we stand. But maybe 35 years ago, Neah was too overcome by his want for revenge that he couldn't wait and strategize properly. He's the musician, an artist, a destroyer of time. See what I'm getting at? He's impulsive. Or was, anyway. Back then, he charged ahead, destroyed all noah save for one and failed to kill the earl. Why? Maybe you're right, Road and him had something. I sense favoritism here.
But now, from what we've seen so far, he's back, but he's matured. He didn't just jump into battle. He's waiting for something. And maybe that is exactly what you're suggesting, maybe the exorcists can help open up that opportunity. There's one major thing to do with this point, but It'll be the last thing I talk about.

3.What are the Exorcists anyway:

Originally Posted by DR34DNOISE

The Earl says he wants the Exorcists to continue not knowing what they are, or what they stand for (Somethign like that), so, it is presumable that killing the Akuma is only helping the Earl in some unknown way. The Akuma are getting more and more human like, and it is powered by the soul of a deceased person, plus the Akuma get a consciousness of their own, so is it possible the Earl made Akuma to REVIVE someone? Is the Earl doing what he's doing out of love?

True, we have no idea if they're actually doing what they think they're doing. I think you're right about the Akuma. It seems that the more advanced it becomes, the more human it becomes. Revival? Maybe. Love? Ehhh probably not. The Earl doesn't seem to mind the killing of the akuma. If they were that important they wouldn't be his first line of defense. I think the akuma are a mere distraction. No matter how near-human they become. Isn't that just testing the ruthlessness of the exorcists? Maybe he's training them to kill humans without mercy? Or maybe he's distracting them while he works on something else. Either way, I don't think this is something Hoshino wants us to know just yet. The whole Allen from the future thing tho....complete BS! There is absolutely no way that can be true. He'd surely remember himself. The scene in the cemetery, you can't forget that. We got to see the Earl's thoughts about this matter. He didn't know allen at all. There was a hint of something, maybe the child reminded him of mana (due to mannerisms) and thus reminded him of Neah? But that's all. Plus his hair would be white! Haha. ha. *ehm moving on....

4.Most important point evar!!

The fourteenth already has minions!! People carrying on his will! Cross and Levellie are two definite members. Levellie has a lot of say in what happens around the Black order. See where I'm going with this? The fourteenth has been planning, and he's been planning for a long while now. That's even more evidence that he's not the same irrational person who'd blindly attack the earl and get killed in the process. And I don't know why, but I feel like both the fourteenth and the Earl together know some things that no one else does. But of course, only time will tell.

Sidenote: That girl who tells the future, Mei-Ling, – maybe that's a more metaphorical view she saw? Maybe it didn't happen because she didn't end up joining them? Or maybe she's sort of on 'hold', and will join them in the future, at a time where she's needed for something or other. Either way, her vision has passed. My clue: the uniforms have changed XD.

Impressive collection of theories! If there was still more than a few days before the next chapter I'd try to reply to every single one of them but I'm too lazy. So I'll just try my best. (Some great theories you have in there by the way. The innocence being made of human sacrifices would be the perfect plot twist to put in some moral issues. We'd start wondering if maybe the Noah are in fact the good guys.)

I don't think that the Noah are going to be the good guys by any stetch of the imagination. Tykki, for instance, acts like a ass to his enemies yet is gentlemanly to his allies, and let's not forget the fact that he says "Killing is so much fun" when he kills the Exorcist that-uses-Charity-Bell (Don't remember his name). So he's definitely a shade of gray when it comes to his "Kindness". Allen however is so much of goody-two shoes about all of this that i thought that him slowly turning into the 14th was the perfect way to b*tch slap him with a shade of gray character development. I'd be interested to know just how Innocence "Evolves" of a sort, after all, the Exorcists fight the Akuma, and then the souls "Fly off towards Heaven" as Allen says. Maybe the Innocence is actually absorbing the souls of those that are dead for power? But this is just a thought.

Originally Posted by StrawberryLulzJam

1. The fourteenth:
I just went back and re-read some parts, and it seems to me that Master Zhu wasn't talking to Link when he said he'd turned 'him' into the fourteenth. Plus, we already know, Allen is the one at risk of becoming 14th noah at present. And when I think about how long Zhu's been alive, it wouldn't be surpising if he was actually talking about a PREVIOUS fourteenth. He seemed to be in a memory trance after all... It's past obvious now, but it's entirely possible that he was talking about turning Neah into the fourteenth all those years ago, or maybe transferring the fourteenth into Allen's body (first one being much more likely in my opinion).

A memory trance? Hm, i never thought of it that way. It would definetely fit the bill of what he's talking about, BUT, that begs the question how did he "Turn" someone into the 14th? Did he manually do something when the 14th died to make Allen the 14th's host? Did he do something to Neah to make him a Noah? Or is it that he feels responsible (Somehow) for the whole situation for the 14th?

Originally Posted by StrawberryLulzJam

There's been lots of mention of the fourteenth and his failed attempts. As we know, the Noah wakes up in a human and takes control. Perhaps in some cases, the noah and human souls amalgamate into one and become indivisible. If you remember, Tykki mentiones how he has 'both' sides, and that that's what keeps it fun. So you see, there's the human, and the Noah. Depending on how long the Noahs' been there, I'd guess the human gives up and really 'becomes' that role. For all we know, the Tykki that plays cards with Allen is really the human side of the pleasure noah and they are in agreement. Tykki being an exorcist however, is a little unlikely otherwise there would have been mention of it at some point. We know that Tykki became a noah within the past 35 years, which is not a long time. Any of the current, 'old' exorcists would have recognized him and something would have been said. There's no reason for Hoshino to not want to reveal something like that because it wouldn't change too much. If Tykki was an exorcist, so what, Allen wasn't the first. But that's all the significance there is. Lol of course the Noahs are in control of their Noah side. I think you meant to say human side? That last couple phrases aren't too clear but I'll take a shot and see if I understood your point. So what you mean is, are the Noah actively deciding to follow the Earl or are they being forcefully placed under his subjugation. Is that right? It's a good idea, and I've always wondered that myself. What did the Earl tell them that they are always so willing to follow? Is he giving some sort of incentive? Or is it that 'familial' bond they have that keeps them together. Maybe it's simply because he's always been in control and the others are not much for change. OR, there's my favourite option, none of them want to be millenium Earl for fear of him and their lack of power. In which case, it wouldn't be impossible (difficult maybe, not impossible) for someone, * allen * to convince them to side with him and to kill the Earl.

Speaking of Noah like that reminds me of the Innocence: IE, Tykki seems to be in perfect Unison with his Noah. Just like how Allen is in perfect unison with his Innocence. (Well, past 100% but you get what i mean) So that seems to me like there might be something more at play than just Synchro rates, as since unifying with the Noah seems to make one bloodthirsty, and unifying with the Innocence seems to have no effect one ones personality, and yet they both have similar characterisitcs. All i'm saying is that Innocence and "Inner Noah" are in most ways similar to each other, however, which is the lesser of the two evils is the quesiton. I also think that the Tykki that plays cards with Allen (Or played for that matter) was when both his human half and his Noah half were in agreement. However, to go so far as to say that the human half gives up, i don't think that's quite what happens. So think of it like this, you're in a situation where you're slowly becoming a monster and you feel helpless, and you're killing people even though you don't want to and all of a sudden a fat guy in a suit and 13 (Or 12) other dark skinned people come along and treat you like family. If anything, it's an Oxy moron. How could he give up when he has the full support of his supposed "Family"? I would understand though if he gave in right *as* not after, he became a Noah. Tykki being an Exorcist was a theory that i actually heard myself and didn't agree with for those same reasons, but hey, if that [I]one guy that you all know what i'm talking about[I] from Bleach says that he actually had planned from the moment of Ichigo's birth that they would fight and choosing who he would fight against so he was at just the right amount of power and people call THAT a brilliant plot, i thought that Hoshino might end making a similar case of BS for the sake of a good plot. But i also think it's BS.

"Of course the Noah are in control of their Noah side"? What is this i don't even.

Just where are you getting that the Noah said they control their Inner Noah? I'm only going off of what i read in the Manga and what i saw in the Anime, so if you have something to add that i wasn't paying attention to, i'm all ears. But, last time i checked i didn't see or hear at anytime the Noah saying "We/I control our Inner Noah" at all. So i'm going off the impression that "Everything they do is influenced by their Inner Noah" as my baseline for analysing what they do. Um, no, that is not what i meant at all, i meant as in is Tykki really Tykki, or is Tykki actually just his Inner Noah taking over his personality completely? (IE Tykki White as in human Tykki, or Black Tykki as in Noah Tykki: Which one is truly in control?)

Originally Posted by StrawberryLulzJam

Personally, I think they are scared of him. Although they have shown loyalty, they've also shown fear of acting out. The twins tend to behave 'more than usual'. Sheryl doesn't seem to have told the Earl about his little hostage. Maybe if the Earl was fully functioning, sheryl wouldn't be acting that way. They're always worrying about 'how mad the Earl's gonna be' when they mess up. And let's not forget how easy it was for the Earl to subdue the crazed Tykki-pon and take him home. The other noah are like mere children compared to him. But Neah, he seems more on the level of the Earl.

So yes, in summary, I agree that it's possible the human host (bitter as they may be) actually do have a say in what they do or don't.

I don't know what the Earl did or does to motivate his subordinates, or what he told them, but it's as i said, the only thing that the Black Order doesn't know in this situation is the purpose of Akuma or meaning behind them evolving through killing. Therefore, it is safe to presume that the purpose or meaning behind Akuma is something significant enough to "Earn" their loyalty. But, i do agree that it's most likely fear as to the reason that they follow him, i just wish it was more deep than that, kinda like how there was a deep sentimental reason behind why EVE from MGS3 switched sides, as she explains in the game. Somehow though i do get the feeling that there's a seperate reason for each Noah as to why they follow the Earl, but i don't know if that would be deep either. THe Noah definetely are no where NEAR as strong as the Millenium Earl when it comes to skill, or even raw power, so they really are just like children compared to the Earl.

Originally Posted by StrawberryLulzJam

2.Neah's battle plan:
Oh you're right there for sure. It would be smart, from where we stand. But maybe 35 years ago, Neah was too overcome by his want for revenge that he couldn't wait and strategize properly. He's the musician, an artist, a destroyer of time. See what I'm getting at? He's impulsive. Or was, anyway. Back then, he charged ahead, destroyed all noah save for one and failed to kill the earl. Why? Maybe you're right, Road and him had something. I sense favoritism here.
But now, from what we've seen so far, he's back, but he's matured. He didn't just jump into battle. He's waiting for something. And maybe that is exactly what you're suggesting, maybe the exorcists can help open up that opportunity. There's one major thing to do with this point, but It'll be the last thing I talk about.

Hm. I concur that Neah was probably overcome with rage and and just went ahead and killed everyone instead of thinking clearly, but now that he's calmed down he's become something to be feared far more than when he was savage. Why? Simple.
Intelligence.
An intelligent predator is far more dangerous than one of sheer strength.

Originally Posted by StrawberryLulzJam

3.What are the Exorcists anyway:
True, we have no idea if they're actually doing what they think they're doing. I think you're right about the Akuma. It seems that the more advanced it becomes, the more human it becomes. Revival? Maybe. Love? Ehhh probably not. The Earl doesn't seem to mind the killing of the akuma. If they were that important they wouldn't be his first line of defense. I think the akuma are a mere distraction. No matter how near-human they become. Isn't that just testing the ruthlessness of the exorcists? Maybe he's training them to kill humans without mercy? Or maybe he's distracting them while he works on something else. Either way, I don't think this is something Hoshino wants us to know just yet. The whole Allen from the future thing tho....complete BS! There is absolutely no way that can be true. He'd surely remember himself. The scene in the cemetery, you can't forget that. We got to see the Earl's thoughts about this matter. He didn't know allen at all. There was a hint of something, maybe the child reminded him of mana (due to mannerisms) and thus reminded him of Neah? But that's all. Plus his hair would be white! Haha. ha. *ehm moving on....

I actually put the "Maybe for love" in my comment without thought, i personally think that the Earl isn't doing what he's doing so that he could, say, bring back someone he loves becuase he seems pretty narcissistic in nature. All though that might just be me. I genuinely don't think that the Earl would ever do something to save someone else, it just seems very much out of character if he actually "Felt" compassion towards someone that wasn't a Noah. He also is (Last time i checked) depressed. The Akuma, if i remember correctly, were made to combat Exorcists. But that might be wrong, as i'm not entirely sure if that is true. As for the "The Earl is Allen from the future thing" i don't believe a lick of it either. It makes next to no sense story wise and character wise. It's just supid.

Originally Posted by StrawberryLulzJam

4.Most important point evar!!
The fourteenth already has minions!! People carrying on his will! Cross and Levellie are two definite members. Levellie has a lot of say in what happens around the Black order. See where I'm going with this? The fourteenth has been planning, and he's been planning for a long while now. That's even more evidence that he's not the same irrational person who'd blindly attack the earl and get killed in the process. And I don't know why, but I feel like both the fourteenth and the Earl together know some things that no one else does. But of course, only time will tell.

I agree, there is something that the Earl is hiding in terms of his relationship with the 14th. I do get the feeling, that on some plain of existence, that the Earl is actually waiting to be struck down, that's just what i think though. He also says that he wants to be beside the 14th, but for what intents and purposes are unclear, but i find it safe to presume that what they know has somethign to do with the Earl's wish.

Originally Posted by StrawberryLulzJam

Sidenote: That girl who tells the future, Mei-Ling, – maybe that's a more metaphorical view she saw? Maybe it didn't happen because she didn't end up joining them? Or maybe she's sort of on 'hold', and will join them in the future, at a time where she's needed for something or other. Either way, her vision has passed. My clue: the uniforms have changed XD.

I actually hadn't noticed that the Uniforms on the corpses were the old ones. Woops.
A metaphorical view? I fail to see what it could be a metaphor for. The image is of all of the Main characters dead around her, whilst she wears an Exorcist uniform, but i don't see how this could be a metaphor and not a statement of fact. A door has a door knob, that's an assertion, but that's also a statement of fact, so it can't be a metaphor. I draw on Shakespear for an example "All the world’s a stage,
And all the men and women merely players;
They have their exits and their entrances;" -William Shakespear.
That was an example of a metaphor, plain and simple, but i don't know how their corpses could symbolise anything besides they're dead. (Actually, this is an inkling that i just had: What if it metaphorically shows character growth? IE the old Lenalee who cries alot and acts strong and defends her friends at all costs "Dies" and instead Lenalee is a stone-cold b*tch without any determination as a character. Hell of a character growth though, hell of a character growth). CONT*

CONT*
Phew, this is something that i wanted desperately to type ever since i began my response.
Now, it's time, for me, to unvail, what i've been thinking about since the last time i posted.
*YAY!*
*Fireworks*
*Cheerleaders*
*Cheeing*
Drum roll please.....
*Drum roll*
I've been thinking about the 14th's influence on Allen's personality. What i think is that it was Neah's influence that made Allen act nice, admittedly though, the 14th's influence has gotten stronger as of late i still think that Allen's "True" personality is him being grumpy and moody.
Basically, Kanda 0.5.
I think this because Allen, as a child, was acting like a douche to Mana. I have not met or heard of a single abused person not have any form of scars from being abused. Even the most controlled person still has some form of mental or physical problem stemming from said abuse. This is just speculation though, i might be completely and utterly wrong.
OH MAH GAWD. I did not realise that my previous post was such a freakin' wall of text. Somebody get a wallpaper of this.
Edit: I was thinking about whether or not Allen becoming the 14th was an degeneration, or an evolution.
Think of it this way, the Noah know something that others don't, that much is obvious since the scene that explains the background of the Skin Bolic has both of them crying because of how they see the world for what it truly is. Maybe, maybe Allen's personality is already exactly that of the "Fourteenth" before he became a Noah, so, when Allen's learns what the world really is, or really looks like, he will then act under the 14th wishes because they both agree on what they want to do.

Omagawwwsshhhh the new issue is at the dooooorr!! Am I the only one so excited I'm going to fall over?! I can't even think straight anymore -_-

*Going maddd*

Sadly, because it's Australia that i live in, it means that i have to wait 'till Tuesday before it's released.
FFFUUUUUUUUUUUUU-
Edit: This begs the question: Does this mean that this thread will be renamed D.Gray-Man 214 Discussion / 215 Predictions? Or will the author said thread make a new thread specifically just for the next Issue after this one?