If I had to choose a long term mate just from these two pools, I would probably feel safer with a Filipina. Thai women just seem so emotionally strong and detached regarding LT relationships. Its like they have no sentimentality except for their mothers and other family members. I think its more common for Filipinas to grow very attached to their foreign boyfriends/husbands over time.

But..., one guy I met in Angeles, an Aussie who has children with women in PI, Thailand, and Japan, seems to strongly prefer Thailand and Thais to the PI and its people. So once again, experiences and perceptions can vary. This guy also met Winston and Lad. Not surprisingly, he did not see eye-to-eye with Lad on the Thai vs. PI issue.

MrPeabody wrote:Has anyone here had a relationship with a normal middle class Thai woman - that is, not a bar girl or a very poor girl?

Yes, for nearly 3 years now and a large part in what makes Thai women tick is based on my personal relationship as well many many dates with regular girls as well as some experience with the p4p scene. There are exceptions as to how my girlfriend acts but that is mostly due to her middle class background growing up abroad.

I have met the lowest of the low, the middle class, and the upper-middle class women. There are very few girls here that have surprised me with anything about them mentally. Many of the women I tutor part time are also from solid middle class backgrounds as well. Thai women are very predictable in their "unpredictability" as well as their desires.

Old Thai Hand, a Canadian professor at Chula who claimed to be fluent in Thai, and a former prolific poster about Thailand and its women on another forum, wrote the same things as your OP regarding poor academic skill and lack of intellectual curiosity, even among the most elite students in his classes including Thai Chinese. He also noted the lower average IQ in Thailand vs. Vietnam and most other Asian countries.

It seemed like the longer he stayed, the more bitter and disillusioned he became. In his earlier posts, he often confronted expat complainers from the POV of a Thai apologist. But after some years, he mostly just threw the Thais and their culture under the bus. He did manage to pull a lot of attractive student types (by Thai standards) and lived with a young Issan student from a solid middle class family so he was definitely Happier Abroad from a dating standpoint. But the overall life+work in Thailand wore him down. In some respects, his experience and attitude was similar to that of Lad; but not in every aspect.

I think part of the reasons why expats do well in Thailand and in the Philippines ( dating scene that is) is because of the lower academic skills and lack of intellectual development.

I think that is....if Thailand and the Philippines develop more and to think better for themselves ..why would they want to have such rampart sex industry in their own back yards.

This reminds me of South Korea..right after the Korean war. American GI took over all the former Japanese military bases in South Korea and still continued the sex industry that the Japanese created . Pretty much every GI base had a go-go bar near by with Korean woman whoring themselves off to GI and seeking marriages. Talk to any former military guys station in South Korea in the early 70's even up to 80's...most of the go-go bars were full of Korean women. But today it's a different story.

Expats will agree that South Korea is not a great destination for sex tourism and that Korean women are not as easy compared to other Asian countries. What happened since the post Korean war to today? Rise of economy , rise of development, higher IQ( Korean score high on the IQ ) .etc..

It's kind of like if the Philippines or Thai people start wising up and taking responsibility for themselves and to better themselves. I wonder if the sex industry or the easy picking will be the same.

Because I really think many of the expat living in Asia DO NOT REALLY CONTRIBUTE TO THE NATIVE ASIAN COUNTRIES. They are their just to have a good time ..shoot their load maybe get some local girl pregnant and bitch about the western women.

chanta76 wrote:I think part of the reasons why expats do well in Thailand and in the Philippines ( dating scene that is) is because of the lower academic skills and lack of intellectual development.

I think that is....if Thailand and the Philippines develop more and to think better for themselves ..why would they want to have such rampart sex industry in their own back yards.

This reminds me of South Korea..right after the Korean war. American GI took over all the former Japanese military bases in South Korea and still continued the sex industry that the Japanese created . Pretty much every GI base had a go-go bar near by with Korean woman whoring themselves off to GI and seeking marriages. Talk to any former military guys station in South Korea in the early 70's even up to 80's...most of the go-go bars were full of Korean women. But today it's a different story.

Expats will agree that South Korea is not a great destination for sex tourism and that Korean women are not as easy compared to other Asian countries. What happened since the post Korean war to today? Rise of economy , rise of development, higher IQ( Korean score high on the IQ ) .etc..

It's kind of like if the Philippines or Thai people start wising up and taking responsibility for themselves and to better themselves. I wonder if the sex industry or the easy picking will be the same.

Because I really think many of the expat living in Asia DO NOT REALLY CONTRIBUTE TO THE NATIVE ASIAN COUNTRIES. They are their just to have a good time ..shoot their load maybe get some local girl pregnant and bitch about the western women.

Its only natural that as a country climbs up the economic ladder, very low cost foreign oriented prostitution may disappear. S. Korea post WWII and Korean War was in shambles. I think it had a GDP per head lower than Ghana's. Now its a rich developed nation. And by virtue of the culture, I don't think most Korean women naturally fit well into western oriented P4P. So its not something the average one wants to do unless she has no other options.

You still can find value for money P4P niches in fully developed cities and countries such as HK, Singapore, Germany, and Brazil. It will cost more than current day PI or Thailand and the clock tends to be strictly enforced. But, its not outrageously expensive, beautiful women can often be found, and service quality is more predictable.

"Because I really think many of the expat living in Asia DO NOT REALLY CONTRIBUTE TO THE NATIVE ASIAN COUNTRIES. They are their just to have a good time ..shoot their load maybe get some local girl pregnant and bitch about the western women."

You are pretty well spot on. Most other expats I meet are "cartoons in a cartoon graveyard..." Generally, if you have a life, and you are not an idiotic baboon, you will have little in common with most expats in the Philippines. Not surprisingly, as Winston points out, many expats in the Philippines in fact have low opinions of Filipinas in many ways. Most expats in the Philippines seem to have no trouble attracting filipinas who will gladly live up to their low expectations. Who would have ever guessed?

Rock wrote:Old Thai Hand, a Canadian professor at Chula who claimed to be fluent in Thai, and a former prolific poster about Thailand and its women on another forum, wrote the same things as your OP regarding poor academic skill and lack of intellectual curiosity, even among the most elite students in his classes including Thai Chinese. He also noted the lower average IQ in Thailand vs. Vietnam and most other Asian countries.

I have always been skeptical of relative IQ scores but damned if they don't corroborate what i've personally seen with various women in real life.

Other things to consider is that one of the Thai ministries did their own IQ study and Thai children in rural areas were found to be far below the national average (which is low already.) I believe it fell somewhere in the 70-80's range which I believe is considered legally retarded by definition in the U.S. Rural is pretty much defined as Not Bangkok or Not Chiang Mai which is the majority of Thailand. From what i've seen the regular Thai women you are most likely to meet in various social spots like nightclubs are overwhelmingly lower-middle class from the service sector or low level office (administrative assistants, secretaries, etc..) occupations.

Here's how Thais stack up according to IQ and global inequality. I'm sure we've seen these before but i'll just repost it for posterity's sake. I left out countries like North Korea because it's not relevant and I doubt many of us have experience with girls from there, heh.

The average IQs for NE Asian or ethnic NE Asian countries tend to be pretty close.

Out of all the SE Asian groups Vietnamese are on top and interestingly enough are also overwhelmingly selected as best choices for foreign brides by men from NE Asian countries like Taiwan and Korea. Thai and Filipino foreign brides are a scant 10% of all female foreign brides in Taiwan.

I saw a statistical breakdown on Taiwanese marriages and many of the Indonesians are in fact ethnic Chinese-Indo minorities and not Balinese, Javanese, or what we consider to be native "Indonesian."

Repatriate wrote:We've had a few threads on here about Filipinas and Filipina culture so I thought expats who plan on trying Thailand out or think it's a panacea for lonely single men may want to consider some aspects of the culture based on my long experience in living here. Just a few thoughts beforehand, I think Thailand does have a pretty good average population of attractive women who make for fun holiday girlfriends, expat "wives" (that last the duration of a work contract), or just p4p dates. So, if you are interested in p4p sex or short term relationships Thailand is good for this and that's what most of the country's reputation is based on.

On the flip side, I have paid close attention to the type of foreign men who typically marry Thai women and I noticed that very very few NE Asian men marry Thais on a long term basis. There are plenty of Malaysians, Singaporeans, Koreans, Japanese, Taiwanese etc.. who come here for p4p fun and some maintain beautiful Thai mistresses but very few commit to long term obligations with kids and family. To me this is a major red flag since I find that NE Asian men who marry across other asian nationalities tend to seek pragmatic mates who make for stable and productive long term relationships (ie. Vietnamese) rather than Thais or Filipinas. Indeed this is true if you look at Taiwanese marriage statistics, a large percent of foreign marriages between Taiwanese men are with Vietnamese. I believe the relative work ethic, education, and long term stability of Vietnamese women better matches middle class NE asian values and to some extent probably western middle class cultural standards as well. The bulk of other intra-asian foreign marriages tend to be within NE Asian nationalities.

Even ethnic Chinese Thais tend to marry mostly other Thai-Chinese. To me this indicates a major adaptive cultural difference and the reason why this group is so successful within the country when surrounded by many negative cultural attributes.

Here are some things to consider:

1) Educated Thai women, even those from top universities, tend to be rather ignorant and non worldly. There's a distinct lack of curiosity or practical consideration for anything that goes beyond the Thai cultural bubble for the vast majority of Thais. You will find very few autodidactics or critical thinkers in this society. Books or in depth topical discussion is considered boring. In comparison to even your average American (who still does read) Thais don't read anything at all except comics and pop culture rags. You are expected to fully conform to their language and cultural standards which is a definite step down if you consider yourself a thinking individual. I'm not as extreme as Ladislav in his negative views of Thais but there is some truth in what he says about the ethnocentrism and relative ignorance of Thais.

2) Older Thai women (35+) have some truly annoying superficial characteristics out of any asian nationalities i've been around. They adopt the "hi-so" socialite type attitudes and expect to be taken care of by their husbands. Face is everything in Thai culture and women who marry foreign men expect a certain carefree lifestyle to justify the relationship to other Thais. Older Thai women actually become more high maintenance when they know you have sunk a certain amount of time and investment in the relationship. I see many older white western/Thai relationships with children that look absolutely miserable.

3) Thai women make poor mothers. The Thai mentality can be best described as mercurial and focused on self centered living. Thai parents who are middle class and above tend to be absentee parents. It's common for maids, housekeepers, etc.. to babysit their children well into their teens. Thai society cultivates ignorance and lack of discipline. They are generally hands free and don't put much thought in investing in their children. You find a lot of Thai children who lack mental development and stunted social growth because of this type of upbringing. If you read about world development statistics Thai consistently ranks low in I.Q. and educational standards at the secondary (PISA) and university level. The faults you see with Filipinos are inherent with Thais as well but i'd say Thais are marginally better off in some respects. The top university in Thailand (Chulalongkorn) ranks low in international rankings, at least equivalent to a mid-tier U.S. state public school. There are exceptions to this and they are mostly with the Chinese-Thai upper middle class whose maintained values are more similar to NE Asians.

4) Thai women adapt poorly in other countries. Thais tend to be very particular about their culture and even food. If you notice, Thais tend to congregate in tight knit communities when abroad who rarely venture outside this comfort zone. The lack of proactive adaptive behavior and ambition means you need to constantly be the anchor for them outside of their comfort zone. This is true if you take them out o the country into a separate Asian culture. Thais born abroad are different however but they are not considered native Thai for all intents and purposes.

5) P4P is heavily embedded in the culture, another poster said that Thailand has polygamist roots and this is true. That's why I think Thais transitioned so easily into an international p4p destination. Sex and relationships which hinge on material commodity are the norm. Wealthy Thai men accumulate mistresses and monger endlessly. Really top notch "attractive women" tend to adopt very westernized and materialistic attitudes in response. They know their value baht wise and many think nothing of sleeping around to obtain material comfort. Sexual libertine behavior is alright for fun and games but not good if you want a well adjusted stable woman to marry.

there is so much BS in your comment I dont even know were to start

Do not jumble filipinas with thais....the only filipina you met are probably P4p BGs you meet in Angeles

Filipinas make the best mothers....they dont push their children to extremes like chinese parents do...but they do put an premium in education
There is a freaking reason why filipino-americans has the 2nd highest personal income and the 3rd most COllege graduates amongst asian americans

FYI in 2006 there were more marriages between a Filipina and a Japanese national then any other international marriage...

Repatriate wrote:We've had a few threads on here about Filipinas and Filipina culture so I thought expats who plan on trying Thailand out or think it's a panacea for lonely single men may want to consider some aspects of the culture based on my long experience in living here. Just a few thoughts beforehand, I think Thailand does have a pretty good average population of attractive women who make for fun holiday girlfriends, expat "wives" (that last the duration of a work contract), or just p4p dates. So, if you are interested in p4p sex or short term relationships Thailand is good for this and that's what most of the country's reputation is based on.

On the flip side, I have paid close attention to the type of foreign men who typically marry Thai women and I noticed that very very few NE Asian men marry Thais on a long term basis. There are plenty of Malaysians, Singaporeans, Koreans, Japanese, Taiwanese etc.. who come here for p4p fun and some maintain beautiful Thai mistresses but very few commit to long term obligations with kids and family. To me this is a major red flag since I find that NE Asian men who marry across other asian nationalities tend to seek pragmatic mates who make for stable and productive long term relationships (ie. Vietnamese) rather than Thais or Filipinas. Indeed this is true if you look at Taiwanese marriage statistics, a large percent of foreign marriages between Taiwanese men are with Vietnamese. I believe the relative work ethic, education, and long term stability of Vietnamese women better matches middle class NE asian values and to some extent probably western middle class cultural standards as well. The bulk of other intra-asian foreign marriages tend to be within NE Asian nationalities.

Even ethnic Chinese Thais tend to marry mostly other Thai-Chinese. To me this indicates a major adaptive cultural difference and the reason why this group is so successful within the country when surrounded by many negative cultural attributes.

Here are some things to consider:

1) Educated Thai women, even those from top universities, tend to be rather ignorant and non worldly. There's a distinct lack of curiosity or practical consideration for anything that goes beyond the Thai cultural bubble for the vast majority of Thais. You will find very few autodidactics or critical thinkers in this society. Books or in depth topical discussion is considered boring. In comparison to even your average American (who still does read) Thais don't read anything at all except comics and pop culture rags. You are expected to fully conform to their language and cultural standards which is a definite step down if you consider yourself a thinking individual. I'm not as extreme as Ladislav in his negative views of Thais but there is some truth in what he says about the ethnocentrism and relative ignorance of Thais.

2) Older Thai women (35+) have some truly annoying superficial characteristics out of any asian nationalities i've been around. They adopt the "hi-so" socialite type attitudes and expect to be taken care of by their husbands. Face is everything in Thai culture and women who marry foreign men expect a certain carefree lifestyle to justify the relationship to other Thais. Older Thai women actually become more high maintenance when they know you have sunk a certain amount of time and investment in the relationship. I see many older white western/Thai relationships with children that look absolutely miserable.

3) Thai women make poor mothers. The Thai mentality can be best described as mercurial and focused on self centered living. Thai parents who are middle class and above tend to be absentee parents. It's common for maids, housekeepers, etc.. to babysit their children well into their teens. Thai society cultivates ignorance and lack of discipline. They are generally hands free and don't put much thought in investing in their children. You find a lot of Thai children who lack mental development and stunted social growth because of this type of upbringing. If you read about world development statistics Thai consistently ranks low in I.Q. and educational standards at the secondary (PISA) and university level. The faults you see with Filipinos are inherent with Thais as well but i'd say Thais are marginally better off in some respects. The top university in Thailand (Chulalongkorn) ranks low in international rankings, at least equivalent to a mid-tier U.S. state public school. There are exceptions to this and they are mostly with the Chinese-Thai upper middle class whose maintained values are more similar to NE Asians.

4) Thai women adapt poorly in other countries. Thais tend to be very particular about their culture and even food. If you notice, Thais tend to congregate in tight knit communities when abroad who rarely venture outside this comfort zone. The lack of proactive adaptive behavior and ambition means you need to constantly be the anchor for them outside of their comfort zone. This is true if you take them out o the country into a separate Asian culture. Thais born abroad are different however but they are not considered native Thai for all intents and purposes.

5) P4P is heavily embedded in the culture, another poster said that Thailand has polygamist roots and this is true. That's why I think Thais transitioned so easily into an international p4p destination. Sex and relationships which hinge on material commodity are the norm. Wealthy Thai men accumulate mistresses and monger endlessly. Really top notch "attractive women" tend to adopt very westernized and materialistic attitudes in response. They know their value baht wise and many think nothing of sleeping around to obtain material comfort. Sexual libertine behavior is alright for fun and games but not good if you want a well adjusted stable woman to marry.

there is so much BS in your comment I dont even know were to start

Do not jumble filipinas with thais....the only filipina you met are probably P4p BGs you meet in Angeles

Filipinas make the best mothers....they dont push their children to extremes like chinese parents do...but they do put an premium in educationThere is a freaking reason why filipino-americans has the 2nd highest personal income and the 3rd most COllege graduates amongst asian americans

FYI in 2006 there were more marriages between a Filipina and a Japanese national then any other international marriage...

1) I agree with this statement. Even the Thais I know who travel abroad regularly know very little about the world outside Thailand nor do they care.

2) This is why you marry a Thai woman who cares less about what people think and more about their families' happiness. My wife is 36, I'm 50. She and I would love nothing more than to retire now in Surat where she's from, but it's not financially possible at this time and we've got kids who we want to school in Bangkok. She's been to Singapore and Macau and speaks much better English than most Thais since she uses the language in her job. Some time in the next year or so we plan on going to the states for a few weeks, and maybe in two years, to the Netherlands.

Most of the men in relationships with older women who I have seen looking miserable are with lo-so Thais, not middle class or above.

3) Thai women are poor mothers? Where did this rubbish come from? Focused on self-centered living? Jesus Christ...what a stereotype.

Handsfree? Definitely not my experience. We've had a maid and housekeeper and neither of us were absentee parents. While I agree that many Thai kids lack discipline, I would say my kids are probably the most well-mannered children I've seen here. Absolute gems and I personally think it's because the wife and I are both very strict with them, make them do their chores, make them do their homework as soon as they come home, keep them active, etc. That said, when I go to their school functions or take them to a friends house or have their friends over to our place, the children are well-mannered and listen when an adult speaks to them. I personally think the children who are the worst tend to be from the very poor or the very rich. The very poor are socially inept and haven't a clue while the extremely rich are too busy to care. Not necessarily a Thai thing though as many who are rich haven't the time for their children.

4) This is true but again I think it really depends on the Thai. They stick to what they know. However, in the case of my wife, she's been with me since she was young and very inquisitive about the world outside of Thailand. She and my mother and sister are friends, they talk fairly often, and I do believe if she were in the US she wouldn't have any problem adapting. Also, she's not the type to begin hanging out with new people. The family comes first and she knows I won't allow it to comes second. First, it's not fair to me, and more importantly, this isn't fair to our kids. But this is not something I have to deal with. Jesus if she's going to be 10 or 15 minutes late for any reason I get a message or a phone call.

5) My guess is you haven't hooked up with many decent women. I know and have slept with quite a few Thais who wouldn't dream of asking for money. They may expect you to pay for their dinner but that's it. Also, if a woman is in a relationship with some wealthy Thai as a mistress, chances are she is one of two things; in desperate need of money or she's not what people in Thai society consider to be a decent girl.

As far as Filipinas being better or worse as wives, I think it depends on the woman. I've seen Filipinas who were fantastic wives and I've seen a few who were like old hens, always nagging and complaining.

Repatriate wrote:We've had a few threads on here about Filipinas and Filipina culture so I thought expats who plan on trying Thailand out or think it's a panacea for lonely single men may want to consider some aspects of the culture based on my long experience in living here. Just a few thoughts beforehand, I think Thailand does have a pretty good average population of attractive women who make for fun holiday girlfriends, expat "wives" (that last the duration of a work contract), or just p4p dates. So, if you are interested in p4p sex or short term relationships Thailand is good for this and that's what most of the country's reputation is based on.

On the flip side, I have paid close attention to the type of foreign men who typically marry Thai women and I noticed that very very few NE Asian men marry Thais on a long term basis. There are plenty of Malaysians, Singaporeans, Koreans, Japanese, Taiwanese etc.. who come here for p4p fun and some maintain beautiful Thai mistresses but very few commit to long term obligations with kids and family. To me this is a major red flag since I find that NE Asian men who marry across other asian nationalities tend to seek pragmatic mates who make for stable and productive long term relationships (ie. Vietnamese) rather than Thais or Filipinas. Indeed this is true if you look at Taiwanese marriage statistics, a large percent of foreign marriages between Taiwanese men are with Vietnamese. I believe the relative work ethic, education, and long term stability of Vietnamese women better matches middle class NE asian values and to some extent probably western middle class cultural standards as well. The bulk of other intra-asian foreign marriages tend to be within NE Asian nationalities.

Even ethnic Chinese Thais tend to marry mostly other Thai-Chinese. To me this indicates a major adaptive cultural difference and the reason why this group is so successful within the country when surrounded by many negative cultural attributes.

Here are some things to consider:

1) Educated Thai women, even those from top universities, tend to be rather ignorant and non worldly. There's a distinct lack of curiosity or practical consideration for anything that goes beyond the Thai cultural bubble for the vast majority of Thais. You will find very few autodidactics or critical thinkers in this society. Books or in depth topical discussion is considered boring. In comparison to even your average American (who still does read) Thais don't read anything at all except comics and pop culture rags. You are expected to fully conform to their language and cultural standards which is a definite step down if you consider yourself a thinking individual. I'm not as extreme as Ladislav in his negative views of Thais but there is some truth in what he says about the ethnocentrism and relative ignorance of Thais.

2) Older Thai women (35+) have some truly annoying superficial characteristics out of any asian nationalities i've been around. They adopt the "hi-so" socialite type attitudes and expect to be taken care of by their husbands. Face is everything in Thai culture and women who marry foreign men expect a certain carefree lifestyle to justify the relationship to other Thais. Older Thai women actually become more high maintenance when they know you have sunk a certain amount of time and investment in the relationship. I see many older white western/Thai relationships with children that look absolutely miserable.

3) Thai women make poor mothers. The Thai mentality can be best described as mercurial and focused on self centered living. Thai parents who are middle class and above tend to be absentee parents. It's common for maids, housekeepers, etc.. to babysit their children well into their teens. Thai society cultivates ignorance and lack of discipline. They are generally hands free and don't put much thought in investing in their children. You find a lot of Thai children who lack mental development and stunted social growth because of this type of upbringing. If you read about world development statistics Thai consistently ranks low in I.Q. and educational standards at the secondary (PISA) and university level. The faults you see with Filipinos are inherent with Thais as well but i'd say Thais are marginally better off in some respects. The top university in Thailand (Chulalongkorn) ranks low in international rankings, at least equivalent to a mid-tier U.S. state public school. There are exceptions to this and they are mostly with the Chinese-Thai upper middle class whose maintained values are more similar to NE Asians.

4) Thai women adapt poorly in other countries. Thais tend to be very particular about their culture and even food. If you notice, Thais tend to congregate in tight knit communities when abroad who rarely venture outside this comfort zone. The lack of proactive adaptive behavior and ambition means you need to constantly be the anchor for them outside of their comfort zone. This is true if you take them out o the country into a separate Asian culture. Thais born abroad are different however but they are not considered native Thai for all intents and purposes.

5) P4P is heavily embedded in the culture, another poster said that Thailand has polygamist roots and this is true. That's why I think Thais transitioned so easily into an international p4p destination. Sex and relationships which hinge on material commodity are the norm. Wealthy Thai men accumulate mistresses and monger endlessly. Really top notch "attractive women" tend to adopt very westernized and materialistic attitudes in response. They know their value baht wise and many think nothing of sleeping around to obtain material comfort. Sexual libertine behavior is alright for fun and games but not good if you want a well adjusted stable woman to marry.

there is so much BS in your comment I dont even know were to start

Do not jumble filipinas with thais....the only filipina you met are probably P4p BGs you meet in Angeles

Filipinas make the best mothers....they dont push their children to extremes like chinese parents do...but they do put an premium in educationThere is a freaking reason why filipino-americans has the 2nd highest personal income and the 3rd most COllege graduates amongst asian americans

FYI in 2006 there were more marriages between a Filipina and a Japanese national then any other international marriage...

1) I agree with this statement. Even the Thais I know who travel abroad regularly know very little about the world outside Thailand nor do they care.

2) This is why you marry a Thai woman who cares less about what people think and more about their families' happiness. My wife is 36, I'm 50. She and I would love nothing more than to retire now in Surat where she's from, but it's not financially possible at this time and we've got kids who we want to school in Bangkok. She's been to Singapore and Macau and speaks much better English than most Thais since she uses the language in her job. Some time in the next year or so we plan on going to the states for a few weeks, and maybe in two years, to the Netherlands.

Most of the men in relationships with older women who I have seen looking miserable are with lo-so Thais, not middle class or above.

3) Thai women are poor mothers? Where did this rubbish come from? Focused on self-centered living? Jesus Christ...what a stereotype.

Handsfree? Definitely not my experience. We've had a maid and housekeeper and neither of us were absentee parents. While I agree that many Thai kids lack discipline, I would say my kids are probably the most well-mannered children I've seen here. Absolute gems and I personally think it's because the wife and I are both very strict with them, make them do their chores, make them do their homework as soon as they come home, keep them active, etc. That said, when I go to their school functions or take them to a friends house or have their friends over to our place, the children are well-mannered and listen when an adult speaks to them. I personally think the children who are the worst tend to be from the very poor or the very rich. The very poor are socially inept and haven't a clue while the extremely rich are too busy to care. Not necessarily a Thai thing though as many who are rich haven't the time for their children.

4) This is true but again I think it really depends on the Thai. They stick to what they know. However, in the case of my wife, she's been with me since she was young and very inquisitive about the world outside of Thailand. She and my mother and sister are friends, they talk fairly often, and I do believe if she were in the US she wouldn't have any problem adapting. Also, she's not the type to begin hanging out with new people. The family comes first and she knows I won't allow it to comes second. First, it's not fair to me, and more importantly, this isn't fair to our kids. But this is not something I have to deal with. Jesus if she's going to be 10 or 15 minutes late for any reason I get a message or a phone call.

5) My guess is you haven't hooked up with many decent women. I know and have slept with quite a few Thais who wouldn't dream of asking for money. They may expect you to pay for their dinner but that's it. Also, if a woman is in a relationship with some wealthy Thai as a mistress, chances are she is one of two things; in desperate need of money or she's not what people in Thai society consider to be a decent girl.

As far as Filipinas being better or worse as wives, I think it depends on the woman. I've seen Filipinas who were fantastic wives and I've seen a few who were like old hens, always nagging and complaining.

This can probably be said of all Asians. Your wife sounds alot like mine and some other friends of mine with Thai or Chinese wives. I think alot of these guys here have a problem attracting hoes with nothing special going for them. Sometimes as a man, at some point, when you realize that every woman you meet is the same bitch, every single time, you have to look into the mirror and ask yourself HARD basic questions. "What am I doing wrong? "Is my own behavior to blame?" "Do I need to do more research?" "Is my approach wrong?".

Another issue is that guys here, seem to strongly prefer old-school methods, of walk-up cold approaches only. Guys this is not 1992.... The whole world feels more dangerous to everyone. I think every Asian girlfriend I have had, none of them went out to clubs/bars/etc. they were too conservative and hard-working for that. That was seen as stuff hoes do. They rarely shopped too. You don't have to use dating sites to meet online. There are discussion groups, local BBS/Forums if you can speak and read the language... I think of all the Chinese girlfriends I had 7 total (met all of them online first), 4 of them I did not meet on a dating site...

What I am saying is think outside the box. I think we all know what the definition of insanity is.....

1) Abide by the George Constanza "do the opposite" of what you think and things tend to work out better. Hey, it's worth a shot.

2) Fear of the next Ted Bundy - because of the media's coverage of anything and everything sensational, chicks have seen Ted Bundy types in the news and are fearful of becoming the next chick in a guys closet. Can't really blame em. Then with movie lines like "It puts the lotion on the skin," is it any wonder women are standoffish?

1) Abide by the George Constanza "do the opposite" of what you think and things tend to work out better. Hey, it's worth a shot.

2) Fear of the next Ted Bundy - because of the media's coverage of anything and everything sensational, chicks have seen Ted Bundy types in the news and are fearful of becoming the next chick in a guys closet. Can't really blame em. Then with movie lines like "It puts the lotion on the skin," is it any wonder women are standoffish?

I agree. I made so many changes when I was looking for a wife, I feel shame looking back at my previous strategies, especially with AW and Asian-American women! I sometimes shudder like *brrrrrrrrr*! Men really are to blame for the difficulties in dating and finding women. If there were not any psychos trapping women in Human Trafficking, or those freaks that kept women in a basement for years in Ohio, it would be toooo easy. We could probably go back to hitting them in the head with a club and drag them back to the man cave. Also jealous older Asian women will tell all kinds of old wives tales to younger ones. I have had 4 Chinese girls tell me that they heard a black man's penis will not fit into their pussies. I wish I was making that up.

Forgive me if you addressed this already, but I am very curious, although I dont have much interest in Thailand.

Ladislav stated previously that the racism against white foreigners is intense, with Thais making negative comments about his race in Thai behind his back. Have you experienced anything like this? If so, how pervasive is it and how do you deal with it?

Look for women who automatically want to please you because it pleases them. Any woman who seeks to please her man is a treasure. Even better if you don't have to ask but rather suggest.

Here are some kinds of foreigners that Thai women from different regions tend to marry, or be in long-term relationships with.

1. The taller, lighter-skinned Northwestern Thai women (from Chiang Mai, Chiang Rai) are actually popular with middle-class Japanese men in Thailand.

2. Isaan women tend to score middle-aged whites (usually English-speaking and German-speaking), as discussed many times on this forum.

3. Chinese-Thai women from Central Thailand are far more likely to stick to ethnic Chinese from anywhere.

4. Ethnic minority hill-tribes almost always marry within their own ethnic groups; sometimes cross-border marriages may happen, such as with Burma or Laos. Some rare exceptions include Matthew McDaniel's marriage to an Akha woman.

Forgive me if you addressed this already, but I am very curious, although I dont have much interest in Thailand.

Ladislav stated previously that the racism against white foreigners is intense, with Thais making negative comments about his race in Thai behind his back. Have you experienced anything like this? If so, how pervasive is it and how do you deal with it?

As a foreigner you will never be Thai. They are very nationalistic but as far as some of the negative comments made by Ladislav, I disagree with most of them. The average Thai could give a shit where you're from as long as you pay for what it is you want and are decent to them. Once in a great while I'll come across some Thai with a bad attitude towards foreigners (or just me) but this doesn't happen very often. Certainly not enough to stop me from living here.

Melt into the culture as best you can, don't make any serious waves, and accept the Mai Pen Rai mentality and most people will have very few problems.

Here's the thing about breaking into the inner circle of the "rich, Chinese-Thai." If you're in America and want to break into the circle of the wealthy, you need wealth. So it's not so different than anywhere. If you want a hot chick with big money from a wealthy family, you better bring something special to the table.

Falcon wrote:Here are some kinds of foreigners that Thai women from different regions tend to marry, or be in long-term relationships with.

1. The taller, lighter-skinned Northwestern Thai women (from Chiang Mai, Chiang Rai) are actually popular with middle-class Japanese men in Thailand.

2. Isaan women tend to score middle-aged whites (usually English-speaking and German-speaking), as discussed many times on this forum.

3. Chinese-Thai women from Central Thailand are far more likely to stick to ethnic Chinese from anywhere.

4. Ethnic minority hill-tribes almost always marry within their own ethnic groups; sometimes cross-border marriages may happen, such as with Burma or Laos. Some rare exceptions include Matthew McDaniel's marriage to an Akha woman.

Just curious, where are you getting all of your information and how long have you been in Thailand?

Women from Chiang Mai and Chiang Rai are popular with most foreigners, not only Japanese. Most guys who come here as sex tourists will never hook up with these kind of women though, instead opting for the Isaan women. The Isaan women are laid back as long as they're getting money for themselves and for their families. I've had two girlfriends from Isaan. One was a cute, sweet girl who never asked for money but I eventually dumped her because we had very little in common and I figured it wasn't going to last. The other was slim and sexy but money hungry. I cut her ass loose after a couple of months. I stayed in Udon for about a year and there were farang from all over the world living there...Dutch, Austrians, Swiss, French, Germans, as well as Brits, Canadians, and Americans...you name it...

In my case, I married a girl from Southern Thailand. They have very little in common with Isaaners. They're willing to work hard for their money, stubborn, hard-headed, and are unwilling to turn the other cheek when you screw around on them. The southern women I've been with never asked for a dime and generally middle class.