Or better yet let's not open Pandora's Box and find out the consequences from such action would be much better recourse. Legalizing all illicit drugs would put this country down the tubes in a heartbeat. This country is screwed as it is why make it worse?!?!?

Yes, treatment should be a mandatory thing as less folks do illicit drugs would put the cartels out of business as demand drys up.

Just like what the anti-smoking groups are doing with cigarettes.[/quote]

End quote.............from SL10

Cigarettes are there in the open for people to condone.

Yes legalizing all drugs would be a padoras box, but it would be OUR box to do with what needs to be done.

I have realizedthat your the type of person that would not like to see the. Bad side of humans.

But how if that bad side was your realative?

Would you not want to get them help?

If we were to go the course I'm dreaming of we could be helpers and not enabalers like you obviously am.

By getting it out in the open we can helpbso many.

I know you have a great family, yet with your disscontent do you really know?

The most innocent amough us are the the ones who take advantage of us.

Have fun in denile, well be here for when you need someome to belittle.

Last edited by neno on April 6th, 2012, 11:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Booze is behind an estimated 2.1 million car accidents each year in the U.S.—which cause almost 11,000 traffic fatalities annually. But many drug users have claimed that a few puffs of pot before getting behind the wheel are perfectly harmless. A new study, however, shows that drivers who smoke marijuana within a few hours of hitting the road are almost twice as likely as stone-sober motorists to be in a crash that results in serious injury or death.

Authors of the new paper, published online Thursday in the British Medical Journal (BMJ), sifted through nine previous studies to develop a clearer picture of the risks to users who light up before revving up. Previous studies have left the effects of marijuana on its own—when not combined with alcohol or other drugs—a little hazy.

But the researchers’ findings make sense to others in the field. “Their results are consistent with experimental evidence that cannabis use leads to dose related impairments in simulated driving, psychomotor skills and on-road driving,” Wayne Hall, of the University of Queensland’s Center for Clinical Research who was not involved in the new research, wrote in a related essay in BMJ.

In addition to the finding that drivers who had recently smoked pot were substantially more likely to be involved in a serious accident, the researchers found that those who had died in these crashes had higher amounts of the drug’s compound tetrahydrocannabinol than those who survived. But there was not enough data to link concentrations of the compound to various outcomes in order to suggest a threshold for dangerous intoxication, noted the researchers, who were led by Mark Asbridge, of Dalhousie University’s Department of Community Health and Epidemiology.

Driving while stoned has become a hot topic as more states allow for medical use of marijuana. The 2009 National Survey on Drug Use and Health found that more than 10 million people admitted to having driven while on at least one illegal drug—with pot being the most common. More than a dozen states currently have roadside drug tests for cannabis that sample drivers’ saliva for traces of tetrahydrocannabinol. But, as Hall noted, ascertaining a dangerous level—as is currently used in a breath-based test for alcohol (0.05 percent)—is less clear cut. So far many governments are using a zero-tolerance rule, but, as Hall pointed out, “researchers have proposed a concentration of tetrahydrocannabinol below which driving is not impaired.”

Assessing the definitive risk for actually being in a car crash because of marijuana use is also tricky because studies haven’t always looked at drivers who were not determined to be “at fault”—or passengers of vehicles or people involved in minor accidents.

Nevertheless, Asbridge and his colleagues noted, “This information could be used as the basis for campaigns against drug impaired driving.” But the roadside testing has not been as widely publicized as rapid alcohol breath tests have been, so the chance of getting “caught” with pot in one’s system doesn’t seem to have scared very many people into not smoking before driving. As Hall wrote, the idea that roadside tests for pot will reduce traffic fatalities as drastically and as rapidly as breathalyzers did for alcohol “is probably too optimistic.” But that doesn’t mean that attempts to stub out the dangerous habit should be written off just yet. “Better evidence is essential,” Hall said of the attempts to fight pot-impaired driving with more roadside testing.

And yet no evidence, just an opinion.

If you are going to surf the web all day, I would think you can do better than this.

We need to set standards, and if the people who asked for 6 more intiatives woluld have asked me....

Iwould have asked them to come up with a scientific study (not the one one with the hartdcore smoker that picante gave me) but real evidence of intoxication.

But t hey didn't and they won't go along with any #, even though NORML went with the 5 nanos per.

Yes these people are hipocritical, but personal resposibility should rule

In 2008, ALL NINE justices of the Supreme Court agreed that Second Amendment rights are not unlimited and that government may regulate guns. Read on it. http://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/07pdf/07-290.pdf

Or better yet let's not open Pandora's Box and find out the consequences from such action would be much better recourse. Legalizing all illicit drugs would put this country down the tubes in a heartbeat. This country is screwed as it is why make it worse?!?!?

Yes, treatment should be a mandatory thing as less folks do illicit drugs would put the cartels out of business as demand drys up.

Just like what the anti-smoking groups are doing with cigarettes.

Cigarettes are there in the open for people to condone.

Yes legalizing all drugs would be a padoras box, but it would be OUR box to do with what needs to be done.

I have realizedthat your the type of person that would not like to see the. Bad side of humans.

But how if that bad side was your realative?

Would you not want to get them help?

If we were to go the course I'm dreaming of we could be helpers and not enabalers like you obviously am.

By getting it out in the open we can helpbso many.

I know you have a great family, yet with your disscontent do you really know?

The most innocent amough us are the the ones who take advantage of us.

Have fun in denile, well be here for when you need someome to belittle.

My brother has been in and out and soon going back to prison again for pot related crimes.

Out of his 20 years in and out of prison hasn't dawn on him yet that doing pot has screwed up his life and his children's lives as well.

So, I speak from experience and seen first hand how pot can screw one's life up.

My life and my daughter's lives are without criminal records and are drug free.

Even my Mom and Dad have no criminal records and are drug free plus both are career soldiers. My Dad died tho in 2005 from an Agent Orange related Isometric Heart condition.

A big difference I would say.

Last edited by SL10 on April 6th, 2012, 11:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.

In 2008, ALL NINE justices of the Supreme Court agreed that Second Amendment rights are not unlimited and that government may regulate guns. Read on it. http://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/07pdf/07-290.pdf

Booze is behind an estimated 2.1 million car accidents each year in the U.S.—which cause almost 11,000 traffic fatalities annually. But many drug users have claimed that a few puffs of pot before getting behind the wheel are perfectly harmless. A new study, however, shows that drivers who smoke marijuana within a few hours of hitting the road are almost twice as likely as stone-sober motorists to be in a crash that results in serious injury or death.

Authors of the new paper, published online Thursday in the British Medical Journal (BMJ), sifted through nine previous studies to develop a clearer picture of the risks to users who light up before revving up. Previous studies have left the effects of marijuana on its own—when not combined with alcohol or other drugs—a little hazy.

But the researchers’ findings make sense to others in the field. “Their results are consistent with experimental evidence that cannabis use leads to dose related impairments in simulated driving, psychomotor skills and on-road driving,” Wayne Hall, of the University of Queensland’s Center for Clinical Research who was not involved in the new research, wrote in a related essay in BMJ.

In addition to the finding that drivers who had recently smoked pot were substantially more likely to be involved in a serious accident, the researchers found that those who had died in these crashes had higher amounts of the drug’s compound tetrahydrocannabinol than those who survived. But there was not enough data to link concentrations of the compound to various outcomes in order to suggest a threshold for dangerous intoxication, noted the researchers, who were led by Mark Asbridge, of Dalhousie University’s Department of Community Health and Epidemiology.

Driving while stoned has become a hot topic as more states allow for medical use of marijuana. The 2009 National Survey on Drug Use and Health found that more than 10 million people admitted to having driven while on at least one illegal drug—with pot being the most common. More than a dozen states currently have roadside drug tests for cannabis that sample drivers’ saliva for traces of tetrahydrocannabinol. But, as Hall noted, ascertaining a dangerous level—as is currently used in a breath-based test for alcohol (0.05 percent)—is less clear cut. So far many governments are using a zero-tolerance rule, but, as Hall pointed out, “researchers have proposed a concentration of tetrahydrocannabinol below which driving is not impaired.”

Assessing the definitive risk for actually being in a car crash because of marijuana use is also tricky because studies haven’t always looked at drivers who were not determined to be “at fault”—or passengers of vehicles or people involved in minor accidents.

Nevertheless, Asbridge and his colleagues noted, “This information could be used as the basis for campaigns against drug impaired driving.” But the roadside testing has not been as widely publicized as rapid alcohol breath tests have been, so the chance of getting “caught” with pot in one’s system doesn’t seem to have scared very many people into not smoking before driving. As Hall wrote, the idea that roadside tests for pot will reduce traffic fatalities as drastically and as rapidly as breathalyzers did for alcohol “is probably too optimistic.” But that doesn’t mean that attempts to stub out the dangerous habit should be written off just yet. “Better evidence is essential,” Hall said of the attempts to fight pot-impaired driving with more roadside testing.

And yet no evidence, just an opinion.

If you are going to surf the web all day, I would think you can do better than this.

We need to set standards, and if the people who asked for 6 more intiatives woluld have asked me....

Iwould have asked them to come up with a scientific study (not the one one with the hartdcore smoker that picante gave me) but real evidence of intoxication.

But t hey didn't and they won't go along with any #, even though NORML went with the 5 nanos per.

Yes these people are hipocritical, but personal resposibility should rule

Or better yet let's not open Pandora's Box and find out the consequences from such action would be much better recourse. Legalizing all illicit drugs would put this country down the tubes in a heartbeat. This country is screwed as it is why make it worse?!?!?

Yes, treatment should be a mandatory thing as less folks do illicit drugs would put the cartels out of business as demand drys up.

Just like what the anti-smoking groups are doing with cigarettes.

Cigarettes are there in the open for people to condone.

Yes legalizing all drugs would be a padoras box, but it would be OUR box to do with what needs to be done.

I have realizedthat your the type of person that would not like to see the. Bad side of humans.

But how if that bad side was your realative?

Would you not want to get them help?

If we were to go the course I'm dreaming of we could be helpers and not enabalers like you obviously am.

By getting it out in the open we can helpbso many.

I know you have a great family, yet with your disscontent do you really know?

The most innocent amough us are the the ones who take advantage of us.

Have fun in denile, well be here for when you need someome to belittle.

My brother has been in and out and soon going back to prison again for pot related crimes.

Out of his 20 years in and out of prison hasn't dawn on him yet that doing pot has screwed up his life and his children's lives as well.

So, I speak from experience and seen first hand how pot can screw one's life up.

My life and my daughter's lives are without criminal records and are drug free.

Even my Mom and Dad have no criminal records and are drug free plus both are career soldiers. My Dad died tho in 2005 from an Agent Orange related Isometric Heart condition.

A big difference I would say.

So a plant made him do it?

If you are so sad to blame a substance for your brothers screwups then I guess you do deserve the lifetime enrollment to the Hotel California.

Your brother did the crime, and if he wants to blame it on a substance then he should not be parrolled.

OTOH if you want to blame a substance other than your precious brother maybe you should visit us ,down here in Pueblo for a full phsych exam.

Or better yet let's not open Pandora's Box and find out the consequences from such action would be much better recourse. Legalizing all illicit drugs would put this country down the tubes in a heartbeat. This country is screwed as it is why make it worse?!?!?

Yes, treatment should be a mandatory thing as less folks do illicit drugs would put the cartels out of business as demand drys up.

Just like what the anti-smoking groups are doing with cigarettes.

Cigarettes are there in the open for people to condone.

Yes legalizing all drugs would be a padoras box, but it would be OUR box to do with what needs to be done.

I have realizedthat your the type of person that would not like to see the. Bad side of humans.

But how if that bad side was your realative?

Would you not want to get them help?

If we were to go the course I'm dreaming of we could be helpers and not enabalers like you obviously am.

By getting it out in the open we can helpbso many.

I know you have a great family, yet with your disscontent do you really know?

The most innocent amough us are the the ones who take advantage of us.

Have fun in denile, well be here for when you need someome to belittle.

My brother has been in and out and soon going back to prison again for pot related crimes.

Out of his 20 years in and out of prison hasn't dawn on him yet that doing pot has screwed up his life and his children's lives as well.

So, I speak from experience and seen first hand how pot can screw one's life up.

My life and my daughter's lives are without criminal records and are drug free.

Even my Mom and Dad have no criminal records and are drug free plus both are career soldiers. My Dad died tho in 2005 from an Agent Orange related Isometric Heart condition.

A big difference I would say.

So a plant made him do it?

If you are so sad to blame a substance for your brothers screwups then I guess you do deserve the lifetime enrollment to the Hotel California.

Your brother did the crime, and if he wants to blame it on a substance then he should not be parrolled.

OTOH if you want to blame a substance other than your precious brother maybe you should visit us ,down here in Pueblo for a full phsych exam.

A "talking plant" making him do his crimes, no.

But, because of the easy money he made selling said pot, yes.

If my brother had never screwed with said substance his life would have been much better off as myself, my daughters, my Mom and Dad have it. Hotel California n/a... In other words if he would have left Pandora's Box closed we all as a family would have more respect for him then he has now.

You are correct he shouldn't be paroled again if he keeps screwing with pot. Cause the next time he is going down as an "Habitual Criminal" and probably will be serving 25 to life.

And lastly why should I go to Pueblo for a psychological exam?!?!

I see a shrink at the VA Hospital already for PTSD.

In 2008, ALL NINE justices of the Supreme Court agreed that Second Amendment rights are not unlimited and that government may regulate guns. Read on it. http://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/07pdf/07-290.pdf

Or better yet let's not open Pandora's Box and find out the consequences from such action would be much better recourse. Legalizing all illicit drugs would put this country down the tubes in a heartbeat. This country is screwed as it is why make it worse?!?!?

Yes, treatment should be a mandatory thing as less folks do illicit drugs would put the cartels out of business as demand drys up.

Just like what the anti-smoking groups are doing with cigarettes.

Cigarettes are there in the open for people to condone.

Yes legalizing all drugs would be a padoras box, but it would be OUR box to do with what needs to be done.

I have realizedthat your the type of person that would not like to see the. Bad side of humans.

But how if that bad side was your realative?

Would you not want to get them help?

If we were to go the course I'm dreaming of we could be helpers and not enabalers like you obviously am.

By getting it out in the open we can helpbso many.

I know you have a great family, yet with your disscontent do you really know?

The most innocent amough us are the the ones who take advantage of us.

Have fun in denile, well be here for when you need someome to belittle.

My brother has been in and out and soon going back to prison again for pot related crimes.

Out of his 20 years in and out of prison hasn't dawn on him yet that doing pot has screwed up his life and his children's lives as well.

So, I speak from experience and seen first hand how pot can screw one's life up.

My life and my daughter's lives are without criminal records and are drug free.

Even my Mom and Dad have no criminal records and are drug free plus both are career soldiers. My Dad died tho in 2005 from an Agent Orange related Isometric Heart condition.

A big difference I would say.

So a plant made him do it?

If you are so sad to blame a substance for your brothers screwups then I guess you do deserve the lifetime enrollment to the Hotel California.

Your brother did the crime, and if he wants to blame it on a substance then he should not be parrolled.

OTOH if you want to blame a substance other than your precious brother maybe you should visit us ,down here in Pueblo for a full phsych exam.

A "talking plant" making him do his crimes, no.

But, because of the easy money he made selling said pot, yes.

If my brother had never screwed with said substance his life would have been much better off as myself, my daughters, my Mom and Dad have it. Hotel California n/a...

You are correct he shouldn't be paroled again if he keeps screwing with pot. Cause the next time he is going down as an "Habitual Criminal" and probably will be serving 25 to life.

And lastly why should I go to Pueblo for a psychological exam?!?!

I see a shrink at the VA Hospital already for PTSD.

Firstly, as has been pointed out many times, anecdotal evidence does not equal data. For every story you can tell of an individual who was a screw-up and happened to also be a marijuana user, I can tell a story of someone like myself who smokes regularly yet have never been unemployed or in trouble with the law. Or my ex-girlfriend, who is a regular smoker and a successful accountant and real-estate investor. Or another friend who is an occasional smoker and makes a very good living as sign language interpreter. Telling none of these tales makes any kind of argument, and certainly doesn't establish any kind of the causality relationship which you're trying to imply.

I did find it interesting, though, to consider this argument in the context of your brother's situation. Obviously, this boils down to a question of A or B - should marijuana (A) remain illegal; or (B), become legal for adult consumption.

In relation to your brother, actual events have clearly shown the outcome of situation A...your brother's life and those of his family and friends have been severely negatively impacted by the legal repercussions of his involvement with marijuana.

What about situation B? If marijuana were legal, and your brother found it profitable "easy money" to get involved with marijuana (possibly growing, possibly working in a store that checks IDs and only sells to adults). Then, he would have continued to to go on his merry way, making his "easy money" and supporting his family legally and never getting locked in a cage.

I think it's pretty clear which would be the preferable outcome. I think it's also pretty obvious that marijuana isn't what caused your brother to screw up his life....you said it yourself - "A 'talking plant' making him do his crimes, no. But, because of the easy money he made selling said pot, yes." What made him screw up his life was his desire for easy money. Were marijuana legal, it wouldn't be "easy money" any more...so unfortunately, I fear that once he found that there was no "easy money" to be made in marijuana, he likely would have turned to some other form of illegal "easy money." Marijuana didn't screw up your brother's life. Your brother screwed up his life, and still would have done so even without the involvement of marijuana.

Your post gives me a very strong impression of where your desire to keep marijuana illegal comes from. As long as marijuana remains "that illegal, evil, demon weed - it must be bad because Mr. Government Man says so" and you continue to believe the Reefer Madness lies, it's easy to rationalize using it as a scapegoat for your brother's behavior, instead of facing the fact that the only thing responsible for your brother's behavior and bad choices is your brother.

Or better yet let's not open Pandora's Box and find out the consequences from such action would be much better recourse. Legalizing all illicit drugs would put this country down the tubes in a heartbeat. This country is screwed as it is why make it worse?!?!?

Yes, treatment should be a mandatory thing as less folks do illicit drugs would put the cartels out of business as demand drys up.

Just like what the anti-smoking groups are doing with cigarettes.

Cigarettes are there in the open for people to condone.

Yes legalizing all drugs would be a padoras box, but it would be OUR box to do with what needs to be done.

I have realizedthat your the type of person that would not like to see the. Bad side of humans.

But how if that bad side was your realative?

Would you not want to get them help?

If we were to go the course I'm dreaming of we could be helpers and not enabalers like you obviously am.

By getting it out in the open we can helpbso many.

I know you have a great family, yet with your disscontent do you really know?

The most innocent amough us are the the ones who take advantage of us.

Have fun in denile, well be here for when you need someome to belittle.

My brother has been in and out and soon going back to prison again for pot related crimes.

Out of his 20 years in and out of prison hasn't dawn on him yet that doing pot has screwed up his life and his children's lives as well.

So, I speak from experience and seen first hand how pot can screw one's life up.

My life and my daughter's lives are without criminal records and are drug free.

Even my Mom and Dad have no criminal records and are drug free plus both are career soldiers. My Dad died tho in 2005 from an Agent Orange related Isometric Heart condition.

A big difference I would say.

So a plant made him do it?

If you are so sad to blame a substance for your brothers screwups then I guess you do deserve the lifetime enrollment to the Hotel California.

Your brother did the crime, and if he wants to blame it on a substance then he should not be parrolled.

OTOH if you want to blame a substance other than your precious brother maybe you should visit us ,down here in Pueblo for a full phsych exam.

A "talking plant" making him do his crimes, no.

But, because of the easy money he made selling said pot, yes.

If my brother had never screwed with said substance his life would have been much better off as myself, my daughters, my Mom and Dad have it. Hotel California n/a...

You are correct he shouldn't be paroled again if he keeps screwing with pot. Cause the next time he is going down as an "Habitual Criminal" and probably will be serving 25 to life.

And lastly why should I go to Pueblo for a psychological exam?!?!

I see a shrink at the VA Hospital already for PTSD.

Firstly, as has been pointed out many times, anecdotal evidence does not equal data. For every story you can tell of an individual who was a screw-up and happened to also be a marijuana user, I can tell a story of someone like myself who smokes regularly yet have never been unemployed or in trouble with the law. Or my ex-girlfriend, who is a regular smoker and a successful accountant and real-estate investor. Or another friend who is an occasional smoker and makes a very good living as sign language interpreter. Telling none of these tales makes any kind of argument, and certainly doesn't establish any kind of the causality relationship which you're trying to imply.

I did find it interesting, though, to consider this argument in the context of your brother's situation. Obviously, this boils down to a question of A or B - should marijuana (A) remain illegal; or (B), become legal for adult consumption.

In relation to your brother, actual events have clearly shown the outcome of situation A...your brother's life and those of his family and friends have been severely negatively impacted by the legal repercussions of his involvement with marijuana.

What about situation B? If marijuana were legal, and your brother found it profitable "easy money" to get involved with marijuana (possibly growing, possibly working in a store that checks IDs and only sells to adults). Then, he would have continued to to go on his merry way, making his "easy money" and supporting his family legally and never getting locked in a cage.

I think it's pretty clear which would be the preferable outcome. I think it's also pretty obvious that marijuana isn't what caused your brother to screw up his life....you said it yourself - "A 'talking plant' making him do his crimes, no. But, because of the easy money he made selling said pot, yes." What made him screw up his life was his desire for easy money. Were marijuana legal, it wouldn't be "easy money" any more...so unfortunately, I fear that once he found that there was no "easy money" to be made in marijuana, he likely would have turned to some other form of illegal "easy money." Marijuana didn't screw up your brother's life. Your brother screwed up his life, and still would have done so even without the involvement of marijuana.

Your post gives me a very strong impression of where your desire to keep marijuana illegal comes from. As long as marijuana remains "that illegal, evil, demon weed - it must be bad because Mr. Government Man says so" and you continue to believe the Reefer Madness lies, it's easy to rationalize using it as a scapegoat for your brother's behavior, instead of facing the fact that the only thing responsible for your brother's behavior and bad choices is your brother.

It seems to me regardless what is posted by anyone around here to the contrary is negated by the Amendment 64 crowd.

If said postings don't agree with the pot agenda then it is wrong regardless of merit.

Let's just say in my brother's case it was his decision to mess with pot that screwed him over, but it was the lies on how great pot is that also lead to his situation.

So, in essence people spreading the B.S. about how pot is the "wonder" drug of the century and how easy it is to make boatloads of cash from selling it (legal or illegal) makes some folks lose what common sense they possess.

In 2008, ALL NINE justices of the Supreme Court agreed that Second Amendment rights are not unlimited and that government may regulate guns. Read on it. http://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/07pdf/07-290.pdf

Or better yet let's not open Pandora's Box and find out the consequences from such action would be much better recourse. Legalizing all illicit drugs would put this country down the tubes in a heartbeat. This country is screwed as it is why make it worse?!?!?

Yes, treatment should be a mandatory thing as less folks do illicit drugs would put the cartels out of business as demand drys up.

Just like what the anti-smoking groups are doing with cigarettes.

Cigarettes are there in the open for people to condone.

Yes legalizing all drugs would be a padoras box, but it would be OUR box to do with what needs to be done.

I have realizedthat your the type of person that would not like to see the. Bad side of humans.

But how if that bad side was your realative?

Would you not want to get them help?

If we were to go the course I'm dreaming of we could be helpers and not enabalers like you obviously am.

By getting it out in the open we can helpbso many.

I know you have a great family, yet with your disscontent do you really know?

The most innocent amough us are the the ones who take advantage of us.

Have fun in denile, well be here for when you need someome to belittle.

My brother has been in and out and soon going back to prison again for pot related crimes.

Out of his 20 years in and out of prison hasn't dawn on him yet that doing pot has screwed up his life and his children's lives as well.

So, I speak from experience and seen first hand how pot can screw one's life up.

My life and my daughter's lives are without criminal records and are drug free.

Even my Mom and Dad have no criminal records and are drug free plus both are career soldiers. My Dad died tho in 2005 from an Agent Orange related Isometric Heart condition.

A big difference I would say.

So a plant made him do it?

If you are so sad to blame a substance for your brothers screwups then I guess you do deserve the lifetime enrollment to the Hotel California.

Your brother did the crime, and if he wants to blame it on a substance then he should not be parrolled.

OTOH if you want to blame a substance other than your precious brother maybe you should visit us ,down here in Pueblo for a full phsych exam.

A "talking plant" making him do his crimes, no.

But, because of the easy money he made selling said pot, yes.

If my brother had never screwed with said substance his life would have been much better off as myself, my daughters, my Mom and Dad have it. Hotel California n/a...

You are correct he shouldn't be paroled again if he keeps screwing with pot. Cause the next time he is going down as an "Habitual Criminal" and probably will be serving 25 to life.

And lastly why should I go to Pueblo for a psychological exam?!?!

I see a shrink at the VA Hospital already for PTSD.

Firstly, as has been pointed out many times, anecdotal evidence does not equal data. For every story you can tell of an individual who was a screw-up and happened to also be a marijuana user, I can tell a story of someone like myself who smokes regularly yet have never been unemployed or in trouble with the law. Or my ex-girlfriend, who is a regular smoker and a successful accountant and real-estate investor. Or another friend who is an occasional smoker and makes a very good living as sign language interpreter. Telling none of these tales makes any kind of argument, and certainly doesn't establish any kind of the causality relationship which you're trying to imply.

I did find it interesting, though, to consider this argument in the context of your brother's situation. Obviously, this boils down to a question of A or B - should marijuana (A) remain illegal; or (B), become legal for adult consumption.

In relation to your brother, actual events have clearly shown the outcome of situation A...your brother's life and those of his family and friends have been severely negatively impacted by the legal repercussions of his involvement with marijuana.

What about situation B? If marijuana were legal, and your brother found it profitable "easy money" to get involved with marijuana (possibly growing, possibly working in a store that checks IDs and only sells to adults). Then, he would have continued to to go on his merry way, making his "easy money" and supporting his family legally and never getting locked in a cage.

I think it's pretty clear which would be the preferable outcome. I think it's also pretty obvious that marijuana isn't what caused your brother to screw up his life....you said it yourself - "A 'talking plant' making him do his crimes, no. But, because of the easy money he made selling said pot, yes." What made him screw up his life was his desire for easy money. Were marijuana legal, it wouldn't be "easy money" any more...so unfortunately, I fear that once he found that there was no "easy money" to be made in marijuana, he likely would have turned to some other form of illegal "easy money." Marijuana didn't screw up your brother's life. Your brother screwed up his life, and still would have done so even without the involvement of marijuana.

Your post gives me a very strong impression of where your desire to keep marijuana illegal comes from. As long as marijuana remains "that illegal, evil, demon weed - it must be bad because Mr. Government Man says so" and you continue to believe the Reefer Madness lies, it's easy to rationalize using it as a scapegoat for your brother's behavior, instead of facing the fact that the only thing responsible for your brother's behavior and bad choices is your brother.

It seems to me regardless what is posted by anyone around here to the contrary is negated by the Amendment 64 crowd.

If said postings don't agree with the pot agenda then it is wrong regardless of merit.

Let's just say in my brother's case it was his decision to mess with pot that screwed him over, but it was the lies on how great pot is that also lead to his situation.

So, in essence people spreading the B.S. about how pot is the "wonder" drug of the century and how easy it is to make boatloads of cash from selling it (legal or illegal) makes some folks lose what common sense they possess.

You fail to address the point of my post. It was not "lies on how great pot is that lead to his situation." It was the prospect of easy money, and more specifically his inability to resist the temptation of said prospect. Were pot legal, there would be no "easy money" in its production or distribution. It is the very fact that it is illegal, and thus the resultant hightened level of risk involved with it, that creates the black market and drives the price to a level that creates this "easy money" situation. If marijuana were legal and your brother were selling it, what harm would this plant have caused him?

What overarching merit did your posting have that should disallow me from disagreeing with it and arguing against it? One of the first lessons I learned back in high school and college persuasive writing classes was that anecdotal evidence is a logical fallacy - an invalid argument that fails to support an assertion. A single anecdote is the only argument you have provided. I could provide any number of anecdotes about individuals who got involved with riding and racing motorcycles, then had accidents and are now paraplegics, quadraplegics....or dead. Are any of those anecdotes a valid argument to prohibit motorcycles?

Is marijuana the "wonder drug" of the century? I made no such claim. But only the willfully ignorant can ignore the abundant empirical scientific evidence that marijuana does indeed have myriad beneficial uses, from pain relief in a form far safer than over-the-counter or prescription drugs to appetite stimulation, anxiety suppression, alleviation of insomnia, and some recent studies even indicate very strong possibilities of valuable anti-cancer effects. Again, all in a form much more safe than OTC or prescription pharmaceuticals. Fits the idea of a "wonder drug" better than anything else out there, though, to be honest...

I (and no one else that I've seen) is making any assertion that there's boatloads of cash to be made selling it if it were made legal. As I mentioned already, prohibition creates the black market and thus drives the price up. If marijuana were legal, and there were no risk associated with its commerce, there would be no more of a boatload of cash to be made on it than on any other legally traded consumer good. In fact, I would expect that profit margins would be very low on legal marijuana, due to the inherent competition sellers would face from the option of growing your own. The entities who stand to profit most in this fight are those that would have prohibition continue - law enforcement and a private prison industry which profit and justify their existence by incarcerating as many people as possible; the alcohol, tobacco, pharmaceutical, paper, and textile industries which simply don't want the competition; and, of course, the violent Mexican drug cartels whose market for the marijuana they sell would cease to exist if prohibition were ended.

The bottom line, as many have said here and in other threads, is that the most salient argument any prohibitionist has been able to present is to simply parrot the phrase, "but it's ILLEGAL!" No law should ever exist simply because it is the status quo. No action or substance should ever remain illegal unless there is compelling reason for it to be illegal. Status quo is not a compelling reason. Why should marijuana and hemp remain illegal?

"Nothing so needs reforming as other people's habits. Fanatics will never learn that, though it be written in letters of gold across the sky. It is prohibition that makes anything precious."-Mark Twain

Everybody please take time to read the information on the page at the link below, and post this at places you visit. We need to educate the masses. It is ignorance that we need to conquer at this time.

SL10 wrote:Or better yet let's not open Pandora's Box and find out the consequences from such action would be much better recourse. Legalizing all illicit drugs would put this country down the tubes in a heartbeat. This country is screwed as it is why make it worse?!?!?

We have had a War On Drugs for 40 years. It has cost over ONE TRILLION DOLLARS. Drugs are cheaper, stronger and more available to children.

Why do you want to continue this failed model?Portugal has decriminalized drugs over 10 years ago. They are not having any of the problems you describe. Do you think Americans are not as good as Portuguese?I am offended by your position.

[SL10 wrote:Yes, treatment should be a mandatory thing as less folks do illicit drugs would put the cartels out of business as demand drys up.

If you think people are going to stop doing drugs, you are crazy. If you want less people to do drugs, you should be arguing for decriminalization of drugs.

We should not be turning drug users into criminals, we should be helping them get off drugs.

[SL10 wrote:It seems to me regardless what is posted by anyone around here to the contrary is negated by the Amendment 64 crowd.

You block the people, like me, that expose your lies. Please do check anything I post, I check your posts and find them to be lacking reason, logic and they are not verifiable. You use the same lies over and over again and block those that call you out on it.

[SL10 wrote:If said postings don't agree with the pot agenda then it is wrong regardless of merit.

That must be the feeling you get because you constantly post lies and fiction. You deny peer reviewed scientific studies and then try to bolster your argument with an op-ed written be a for profit treatment center. You defy logic.

You blame a plant for the ills of society and individuals. It is does not make any sense. A person is responsible for their actions, not a plant.

[SL10 wrote:Let's just say in my brother's case it was his decision to mess with pot that screwed him over, but it was the lies on how great pot is that also lead to his situation.

Please list the "lies" you are talking about. Your story is falling apart.

[SL10 wrote:So, in essence people spreading the B.S. about how pot is the "wonder" drug of the century and how easy it is to make boatloads of cash from selling it (legal or illegal) makes some folks lose what common sense they possess.

What? Are you saying that people are not able to make up their own minds?

Please list the lies that people are spreading.Please stop posting stories that have little to do with the topic.

I hope you realize someday that your brother's problems are your brother's. Even if marijuana didn't exist, maybe your brother would still have problems.

Based on the isurance report in the above link, we should have laws changed to REQUIRE a certain level of THC in order to be a safer driver. Hopefully red card holders in Colorado will now get a safe driver discount.

Pot is safer than caffeine, so anyone writing in here against pot while using coffee, tea, redbull or NoDoz is an utter hypocrite. So is anyone taking any prescription antidepressant, anti-anxiety, sleeping pill or pain-pill, amongst other RX meds. All of you people need to be consistently labeled what you truly are - DRUG ADDICTS. Come on junkie, lets have a contest, for each effective dose of pot I use, you match me one effective dose of caffeine, or one antidepressant, or one sleeping pill or one benadryl - whatever is YOUR DRUG OF CHOICE. I will use bowl after bowl in my vape and You can attempt to match me, until we get into the 20, 30, or 40 range of effective dose units and you WILL LOSE THE CONTEST and be ESCORTED TO THE HOSPITAL OR THE MORGUE. That is the end result of even caffeine but NOT POT, so go and brew a strong pot! Get it you blithering fools? The person that smoked pot in the sixties and felt stupid obviously did not possess the knowledge to appreciate the enlightening aspects of the plant, and it is clear that person is still obtuse. In fact, much of the paranoia people feel while high is really a form of self-awareness, so perhaps the pot made you more fully aware of what you were - STUPID. I use pot and while I am high I ponder great things, if you get high and do not end up musing such as I, then I would gander you lack the foundation of knowledge to synthesize such thought, but at least the high from the pot makes you aware that YOUR STUPID!!!! Maybe after you come down and are down repeating your mantra of - "I'm Stupid", I'm Stupid, "I'm Stupid" - in your brain you can then try and increase your IQ somehow. The people choosing pot over alcohol, caffeine, OTC and prescription drugs are SMARTER than the brainwashed fools who TRUST the PRESCRIPTION DRUG INDUSTRY and our gracious loving GOVERNMENT. Keep putting your faith in them, they will continue to dispense your SOMA to you. ----------------The Eye That is Altered Alters ALL---------------

Pot makes people act irresponsible, an obvious lie as you NEVER read of people ingesting pot and then going out and causing a ruckus, AS YOU REPEATEDLY READ ABOUT IN RELATION TO ALCOHOL AND PRESCRIPTION DRUGS!! No means No translates to "millions of people that voted NO because they were DUMB ENOUGH to buy into the LIES promoted by LIARS". This makes you not only gullible enough to buy into conspicuous nonsense but also in turn makes you an ABJECT LIAR. Get it, they lied to you, you bit down hard on the lie, and now you are infected by LIARS and have become a LIAR!!! LIAR!! Your time is coming, public opinion is shifting and will continue to shift and the LIARS who maintain their ignorance for the longest amount of time will be ostracized by the bulk of society in a directly proportional manner, meaning it is time to wake up now and support what is just and truthful in a timely manner or be prepared to be put in your place. Not all of us supporting pot are crying like Montel Williams, be prepared for more and more bold and vociferous types, like myself, who will not cower in your presence and will in the end DESTROY ALL OF YOUR LIES, not by espousing innumerable valid scientific studies that you don't give a crap about or care to listen to, but by pointing out obvious information that you can quickly verify in one seconds time by what is already stored in your brain. For instance, WHEN WAS THE LAST TIME YOU ACTUALLY READ OR SAW ON THE NEWS OF A CASE WHERE SOMEONE WAS DRIVING exclusively high on pot AND DEFINITIVELY CAUSED A TRAFFIC FATALITY? Ah, duh, duh, duh, duh? When was that? Contrast to the last time you read of an alcohol related traffic fatality? Today, yesterday, BOTH? And when was the last time someone was so high(EXCLUSIVELY ON POT) that they went out and robbed to maintain their pot habit ( a whole 150 dollar a month habit), or raped a woman in their blackout rage (is it alcohol or pot that you blackout on?), or caused a bar fight, etc., etc.?

Ya, I am actually waiting for a response, and if you do come up with a past news story, be prepared for me to critique the validity of the story, which is often based off of a lie, such as a combination of alcohol and pot, or prescription drugs and pot, wherein LIARS like Bill O'rielly conveniently leave out the alcohol or prescription drug part and blame it all on pot.Good luck coming up with more than "pot is addictive", "pot is dangerous", "pot is the gateway drug". We have all heard those unsubstantiated lies before, and when you quickly espouse those lies, we can more quickly identify just who the liars are.

Lying is a sin, quit sinning. No means No. NO MORE LIES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

"Life can only be lived forwards, yet it can only be understood backwards"