From: shoppa@alph02.triumf.ca (Tim Shoppa)
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers,alt.sys.pdp10
Subject: How Jerry Pournelle was kicked off the Arapanet
Date: 24 Jan 1998 17:44:59 GMT
Organization: TRIUMF, Canada's National Meson Facility
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References: <34cc18da.40166597@news.interlog.com> <6a5sea$rhq$1@nntp.ucs.ubc.ca> <6a8fbj$50s@news-central.tiac.net>
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In article <6a8fbj$50s@news-central.tiac.net>,
Lawrence Woods wrote:
>Tim Shoppa wrote:
>: Of course, Jerry Pournelle also has the honor of being the only person
>: I know who was kicked off of the ARPAnet. I'll dig up the email
>: logs if anyone is interested.
>I'd be interested!
OK, here it is. The log files below have moved with me from account to
account over the years, but I believe that I originally found them
on MC.LCS.MIT.EDU in 1987 or so. These files were widely circulated
at the time; I was extremely surprised to not be able to find them
on the web today. I suppose the point-and-click generation simply
doesn't care about anything that happened over a decade ago - which
is too bad, as there's a fascinating amount of history contained
in the the attached file.
Tim. (shoppa@triumf.ca)
HOW JERRY POURNELLE GOT KICKED OFF THE ARPANET
This file explains why Jerry Pournell is
no longer on the ARPANet. It's in chronological order. I hope this
clears up any misunderstanding and confusion that may exist.
Date: 19 January 1984 00:50 EST
From: Christopher C. Stacy
Subject: TACACS
To: REM @ MIT-MC, BANDY @ MIT-MC, DEVON @ MIT-MC, DIGEX @ MIT-MC,
JURGEN @ MIT-MC, PINTO @ MIT-MC, POURNE @ MIT-MC, KFL @ MIT-MC,
STEVEH @ MIT-MC, GUMBY @ MIT-MC, IAN @ SRI-NIC
cc: USER-ACCOUNTS @ MIT-MC
Hi,
I didn't see your original messages, and I don't know how the NIC got
into the loop, but I am indeed the person to answer your questions.
Apparently you have encountered TAC access control (TACACS) on your
favorite MILNET TAC. TACACS is a login system based on encrpytion
codes recorded on little paper cards which authorized MILNET TAC users
are being issued. To be a MILNET TAC user, you must have a personal
TACACS account and be issued one of these cards, so that you can type
your login code to the TAC and make it happy. People establish TACACS
accounts and get cards by contacting me to get registered.
If you stick to using ARPAnet TACs, you will have no trouble, since
TACACS for the ARPAnet is going to be a little different and has not
been completely figured out yet.
MIT is not sponsoring guest/tourist usage of the MILNET; if you are a
guest, you should just switch to using a TAC on the ARPAnet and avoid
the problem. I can provide you the name of an ARPAnet TAC in your
area, but I cannot authorize you to use it or provide you with
telephone dialup numbers.
I will soon have some "Guest TACACS cards" for authorized MIT people
on our machines who need to use a MILNET TAC but have not yet been
registered for their own personal cards. These cards are confusingly
named: they have nothing to do with guest accounts and are not
available to tourists/guests.
To put it straight: in general, you are up a creek, and there really
isn't very much to be done about it. Feel free to ask me further
questions or whatever though.
Cheers, Chris
Date: Wed, 29 May 85 06:16:01 EST
From: Leigh L. Klotz
To: POURNE@MIT-MC.ARPA
cc: USER-ACCOUNTS@MIT-MC.ARPA
You used the word "ARPANET" in your June Byte column three times. You
even said
"I gave Alex the local ARPANET access number to record for the
1200-baud modem and inadvertently transposed two numbers."
I don't care if Alex IS a computer -- you may soon find your accounts
on MC decremented by gov't order.
Date: Thu, 30 May 85 03:57:38 EST
From: Jerry E. Pournelle
To: KLOTZ at MIT-MC.ARPA
thank you. if left to you I suppose I cewrtainly will find my accounts
terminated. Your nice private message appreciated. seppuku follows..
maybe you ought to have me dumped off the net and be done with it? or
must you work through someone else? J. E. Pournelle
Date: Thu, 30 May 85 11:23:26 EST
From: David Vinayak Wallace
To: KLOTZ at MIT-MC.ARPA
Subject: Surprise!
Date: Wed, 29 May 85 07:04:16 EST
From: Leigh L. Klotz
Do you think I chastised jerry pournelle too much for talking about
his use of the arpanet in byte?
Yes. It's embarrassing to send a message to someone like that when a
message in OFF POURNE would have done as well!
And now you've sent the message out I'll have to go and find out why
he had to mention it in the first place!
Date: Thu, 30 May 85 18:44:42 EST
From: Leigh L. Klotz
To: POURNE@MIT-MC.ARPA
cc: GUMBY@MIT-MC.ARPA
Date: Thu, 30 May 85 03:57:38 EST
From: Jerry E. Pournelle
To: KLOTZ at MIT-MC.ARPA
thank you. if left to you I suppose I cewrtainly will find my
accounts terminated. Your nice private message appreciated. seppuku
follows.. maybe you ought to have me dumped off the net and be done
with it? or must you work through someone else?
J. E. Pournelle
USER-A is the mailing list created explicitly for dealing with these
sorts of issues. It is the appropriate forum for discussion. There are
eight people on user-a. You probably know better than I do, but last I
heard about 100,000 times as many people read BYTE. Thus, the issue of
privacy is the last one you should raise.
I don't particularly want to force you into ritual disembowelment;
rather, I'm interested -- and I'm not the only one -- in why you find
it necessary to flaunt your use of the arpanet. The more attention you
(and other people) draw to non-blow-em-up use of the arpanet the more
likely some Proxmire type is to start inquiring into its operations.
Date: Fri, 31 May 85 01:11:16 EST
From: Jerry E. Pournelle
To: KLOTZ@MIT-MC.ARPA
cc: GUMBY@MIT-MC.ARPA
I find this thoroughly distasteful. If you have some authority to
order me off the net, do so. If not, leave me alone.
Date: 31 MAY 1985 0225 EST
From: GSB at MIT-MC.ARPA (Glenn S. Burke)
To: KLOTZ at MIT-MC.ARPA
i guess i haven't been paying enough attention to realize that he knew
there was any heckling going on at all.
I'm almost tempted to let him take his marbles and floppy disks and go
home.
Date: Fri, 31 May 85 09:39 EDT
From: Kent M Pitman
To: CStacy at MIT-MC.ARPA
cc: Klotz at MIT-MC.ARPA, KMP at SCRC-STONY-BROOK.ARPA,
Gumby at MIT-MC.ARPA
Subject: Pourne
Date: Fri, 31 May 85 01:11:16 EST
From: Jerry E. Pournelle
To: KLOTZ@MIT-MC.ARPA
I find this thoroughly distasteful. If you have some authority to
order me off the net, do so. If not, leave me alone.
Personally, I'd just turn off his account. It's not like it's the
first time, and he not only flaunts his use of our machines but stabs
us in the back with grumblings about why he doesn't like this or that
program of ours when he gets a chance. (Am thinking particularly of an
article he wrote which condemned Lisp for reasons amounting to little
more than his ignorance, but which cited Teach-Lisp in a not-friendly
light... The man has learned nothing from his presence on MC and sets
a bad example of what people might potentially accomplish there. I'd
rather recycle his account for some bright 12-yr-old...)
Date: Fri, 31 May 85 11:02:27 EST
From: John G. Aspinall
To: KLOTZ at MIT-MC.ARPA, GSB at MIT-MC.ARPA
Subject: just think of it...
MIT Maximum Confusion PDP-10
MC ITS.1488. PWORD.2632.
TTY 57
16. Lusers, Fair Share = 86%
*:login pourne
That account has been temporarily turned off.
Reason:
Think of it as evolution in action.
Any questions may be directed to USER-ACCOUNTS
*
------------------------------------------------
I don't know whether you guys have read Niven and Pournelle's
_Oath_of_Fealty_, but "Think of it as evolution in action." is their
thinly disguised rallying cry for do-it-yourself social Darwinism. It
would be so, so sweet to shove it back in his face.
Date: Sat, 1 Jun 85 04:37:47 EST
From: David Vinayak Wallace
To: KLOTZ at MIT-MC.ARPA
Subject: POURNE
Date: Sat, 1 Jun 85 00:09:30 EST
From: Glenn S. Burke
I.e., little jerry isn't going to get my sympathy if big bad leigh
klotz picks on him.
KLOTZ: 5'8"?
POURNE: >6'4"
Fuck it. Flush him.
Date: Tue, 4 Jun 85 16:01:51 EST
From: David Vinayak Wallace
To: KLOTZ at MIT-MC.ARPA
Subject: pourne
Why hasn't he been flushed yet?
Date: Tue, 4 Jun 85 16:54:04 EST
From: Christopher C. Stacy
To: ACCOUNTS-HELD-REFUSED@MIT-MC.ARPA
I set the following account:
Was: POURNE NTURIS [OK] TM Jerry E. Pournelle 06/03/85
Is: POURNE NTURIS [OFF] TM Jerry E. Pournelle 06/03/85
Because: This account has been terminated due to abuse.
Date: Tue, 4 Jun 85 17:04:29 EST
From: Christopher C. Stacy
To: USER-ACCOUNTS@MIT-MC.ARPA
Given POURNE's obnoxious attitiudes towards USER-A and his apparent
belief that he has a god-given right to be on this machine and the
network, we have flushed him.
Date: Tue, 4 Jun 85 17:55:12 EST
From: David Vinayak Wallace
To: KLOTZ at MIT-MC.ARPA
Subject: POURNE
Too late. CSTACY flushed him even from the tac database.
Date: Fri, 12 Jul 85 20:54:44 EDT
From: Glenn S. Burke
To: KLOTZ at MIT-MC.ARPA
Subject: [Forwarded: topaz!RU-BLUE!LECIN@seismo.CSS.GOV, Re: for those out th
ere who DON'T read SF-LOVERS...]
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Message-Id: <8507110928.AA07998@topaz.arpa>
Date: 11 Jul 85 05:21 EDT (Thu)
From: Mijjil
To: topaz!seismo!bandykin@seismo.CSS.GOV
Phase-Of-The-Moon: LQ+1D.13H.12M.5S.
Subject: for those out there who DON'T read SF-LOVERS...
---begin forwarded message---
Date: Monday, 8 July 1985 15:45-EDT
From: "Franz Mark" at LLL-MFE.ARPA
Re: WESTERCON 38 and The Pournelle/ARPANET Split
We attended the WESTERCON 38 SF convention held in Sacramento, CA,
over the July 4th weekend. At WESTERCON we talked with Jerry Pournelle
about why he never contributed to the SF-LOVERS bb since he had an
account at MIT-MC. He said his account at MIT-MC was terminated by
some "graduate student" in charge of accounting, who felt he did not
have a need for an account. He knows who this "graduate student" is,
and he refuses to grovel so that his account is reinstated. However,
he asked us to broadcast this little story - presumably so that MIT-MC
will come to him.
BTW - if you ever get a chance to meet Jerry Pournelle, you will not
be dissappointed. Sequel to FOOTFALL:-)
HARPANET FOR PRESIDENT,
HUSENET FOR VICE-PRESIDENT.
Also planned is a sequel (and a prequel) to THE MOTE IN GOD'S EYE.
WESTERCON 38 was run very well. In addition to Jerry, we spent several
hours talking with Greg Bear, Norman Spinrad, Robert Adams, James P.
Hogan, Larry Niven, John Brunner, and David Brin.
---end forwarded message---
He might still have an account if he could keep from using words like
ARPANET and DARPA in his column in BYTE magazine!
{Mijjil}
Date: Wed, 24 Jul 85 22:35:03 EDT
From: Christopher C. Stacy
Subject: [kerch: Jerry Pournelle]
To: USER-ACCOUNTS@MIT-MC.ARPA
I'll take care of this, but I thought you might be amused by it.
Date: Wed Jul 24 13:15:44 1985
From: kerch at lll-tis-b (Berry Kercheval)
To: CSTACY
Re: Jerry Pournelle
Status: N
(Note -- I am a neutral third party)
Mr. Pournelle bids me tell you that if you intended to annoy him,
you have succeeded, and that his next column in BYTE will have a lot
to say about the ARPANET....
Date: Wed, 24 Jul 85 23:00:04 EDT
From: David Vinayak Wallace
Subject: [kerch: Jerry Pournelle]
To: CSTACY@MIT-MC.ARPA
cc: USER-ACCOUNTS@MIT-MC.ARPA
It's funny this should appear in my mail to-day. I had lunch this
afternoon with McCarthy, and in the course of conversation (we were
discussing SF) he mentioned that someone at MC had flushed
Pournelle...
As for pournelle himself: He really thinks that WE are trying to annoy
HIM??? Of course if he's vitriolic enough and all the obnoxious
turists vanish (leaving the nice ones of course) then he may have
atoned without realising it...
Date: Thu, 25 Jul 1985 00:04 EDT
From: PGS%MIT-OZ@MIT-MC.ARPA
To: "Christopher C. Stacy"
Cc: USER-ACCOUNTS@MIT-MC.ARPA
Subject: [kerch: Jerry Pournelle]
Date: Wednesday, 24 July 1985 22:35-EDT
From: Christopher C. Stacy
To: USER-ACCOUNTS at MIT-MC.ARPA
Re: [kerch: Jerry Pournelle]
I'll take care of this, but I thought you might be amused by it.
You might consider contacting Byte about publishing some note from us
to appear simultaneously with this. This is only important if
pournelle is going to say what I think he is going to say (what JMC
told me pournelle was claiming), which is that the reason his account
was flushed was because he favors the Strategic Defense Initiative,
and MC is run by a bunch of communists. This will no doubt please
darpa immensely.
Pournelle claims that he heard at a science fiction convention that
you (chris) had said that the real reason his account was flushed was
that ``he (pournelle) is a fascist.'' Given the current political
climate, this could raise some sort of ruckus, so it would probably be
good to nip this in the bud.
Date: Thu, 25 Jul 85 14:06:21 EDT
From: Daniel Weise
Subject: Pournelle and Byte.
To: PGS@MIT-MC.ARPA, USER-ACCOUNTS@MIT-MC.ARPA,
CSTACY@MIT-MC.ARPA
All we have to to is warn Byte that MIT will sue the magazine if any
incorrect defamatory comments are made by Pournelle. I am sure the
editors there have the same opinion of him that we do and will make
sure that Pournelle doesn't end them up in court.
As it stands Pournelle really doesn't understand the state of the
world. If he insists on printing his delusions then MIT's case would
be trivial to win.
Daniel
Date: Wed, 9 Oct 85 23:55:48 EDT
From: Leigh L. Klotz
To: user-a@MIT-OZ
The following is offered without comment. It was forwarded to me by
someone who reads the Byte Magazine bulletin board.
= = B Y T E C O S Y 3.1+ = =
===========================
###### ####### ### ##
### # ### ### ##
###### ### #### (TM)
### # ### ## ###
###### ####### ## ###
===========================
BYTE Information Exchange
McGraw-Hill Information Systems Co.
COSY Conferencing System, Copyright (c) 1984 University of Guelph
Written by: Alastair JW Mayer
:j networks/arpanet
Joining conference 'networks', topic 'arpanet'. 0 new message(s).
Read:3
==========================
networks/arpanet #3, from jerryp, 377 chars, Tue Jul 9 18:22:01 1985
This is a comment to message 2.
There is/are comment(s) on this message.
--------------------------
One thing that is known about ARPA: you can be heaved off it
for supporting the policies of the Department of Defense.
Of course that was intended to anger me. If you have an
ARPA account, please tell CSTACY that he was successful;
now let us see if my Pentagon friends can upset him. Or
perhaps some reporter friends. Or both., Or even
the House Armed Services Committee.
No more unread messages in this topic
Hit for next active conf/topic.
Read:bye
Date: Thu, 24 Oct 85 16:45:09 EDT
From: "Christopher C. Stacy"
Subject: vax135!petsd!pedsgd!bobh at UCB-VAX.Berkeley.EDU
To: USER-ACCOUNTS@MIT-MC.ARPA
It would be a good idea if people did NOT respond to the message about
Jerry Pournelle; nothing useful can come from stirring this around
further.
Date: Sat, 9 Nov 1985 23:10 EST
From: PGS%MIT-OZ@MIT-MC.ARPA
To: user-a@MIT-MC.ARPA
Subject: Pournelle
Leigh read me some of Mr. Pournelle's expose' of the ARPAnet. He
pretty much said that, due to increased demands on computational
resources, guest accounts are no longer generally available on MC,
thereby saving Chris some typing.
######
From: peter@taronga.com (Peter da Silva)
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers,alt.sys.pdp10
Subject: Re: How Jerry Pournelle was kicked off the Arapanet
Date: 24 Jan 1998 14:47:32 -0600
Organization: none
Lines: 15
Message-ID: <6adk14$f9q@bonkers.taronga.com>
References: <6a5sea$rhq$1@nntp.ucs.ubc.ca> <6a8fbj$50s@news-central.tiac.net> <6ad9ar$o3d$1@nntp.ucs.ubc.ca>
NNTP-Posting-Host: localhost.taronga.com
Path: ccw.ch!aetna.dolphins.ch!news.planetc.com!news-xfer.siscom.net!nntprelay.mathworks.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!206.109.1.106!ultraneo.neosoft.com!bonkers!not-for-mail
ROFL!
In an email exchange with Pournelle after I took him to task for whining
about the Amiga or UNIX or something in his User's Column in Byte (It's a
damn shame is Mad Friend Maclean died, he used to keep Jerry under control)
he told *ME* that he and Larry Niven had left the ARPANET voluntarily
because he was tired of all the flaming.
Maybe he even believes it these days.
--
This is The Reverend Peter da Silva's Boring Sig File - there are no references
to Wolves, Kibo, Discordianism, or The Church of the Subgenius in this document
######
From: vjp2@dorsai.org @smtp.dorsai.org (Vasos Panagiotopoulos +1-917-287-8087 Bioengineer-Financier)
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers,alt.sys.pdp10
Subject: Re: How Jerry Pournelle was kicked off the Arapanet
Followup-To: alt.folklore.computers,alt.sys.pdp10
Date: 25 Jan 1998 11:02:21 GMT
Organization: Samani Marions Panyaught NYC-11357-3436-287-USA
Lines: 15
Message-ID: <6af63t$f68@snews3.newsguy.com>
References: <34cc18da.40166597@news.interlog.com> <6a5sea$rhq$1@nntp.ucs.ubc.ca> <6a8fbj$50s@news-central.tiac.net> <6ad9ar$o3d$1@nntp.ucs.ubc.ca>
NNTP-Posting-Host: amanda.dorsai.org
Mail-Copies-To: vjp2@dorsai.org, vjp2@compuserve.com, vjp2@mcimail.com
X-Disclaim: Nothing herein constitutes advice; everything fully disclaimed.
X-Quiet: My silence is not reluctant acquiescence rather confident deprecation.
X-URL: http://www.dorsai.org/~vjp2
X-Newsreader: TIN [UNIX 1.3 950824BETA PL0]
Path: ccw.ch!aetna.dolphins.ch!news.planetc.com!newsfeed.usit.net!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!logbridge.uoregon.edu!pln!spln!extra.newsguy.com!newsp.newsguy.com!not-for-mail
We had a 2050 at Columbia in 1978 when I was a freshman. I understand
the year before it was a beta system. And a year or two later they got
a 2060. The two were networked together and DEC also tied them to NYU
and CMU. We used the net to send files between the two machines. Then
about 1983, I was visiting Cornell and asked a friend to show me how his id
looked like. I figured out how to send mail to him but when I got back
to Columbia and sent the message, I got back a really stern and nasty
sounding warning that I was using ARPANET illegally..
- = -
Vasos-Peter John Panagiotopoulos II, Columbia'81+, Bioengineer-Financier, NYC
BachMozart ReaganQuayle EvrytanoKastorian http://WWW.Dorsai.Org/~vjp2
vjp2@{MCIMail.Com|CompuServe.Com|Dorsai.Org}
---{Nothing herein constitutes advice. Everything fully disclaimed.}---
######
Path: ccw.ch!usenet
From: Neil.Franklin.remove.this@ccw.ch
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Subject: Re: How Jerry Pournelle was kicked off the Arapanet
Date: 26 Jan 1998 00:39:47 +0100
Organization: My own Private Self
Lines: 16
Message-ID:
References: <34cc18da.40166597@news.interlog.com> <6a5sea$rhq$1@nntp.ucs.ubc.ca> <6a8fbj$50s@news-central.tiac.net> <6ad9ar$o3d$1@nntp.ucs.ubc.ca>
X-Newsreader: Gnus v5.3/Emacs 19.34
shoppa@alph02.triumf.ca (Tim Shoppa) was surprised:
> These files were widely circulated
> at the time; I was extremely surprised to not be able to find them
> on the web today. I suppose the point-and-click generation simply
> doesn't care about anything that happened over a decade ago - which
> is too bad, as there's a fascinating amount of history contained
> in the the attached file.
It is now!
http://www.ccw.ch/Neil.Franklin/Jokes_and_Fun/Pournelle_kicked_off_Arpanet
--
Neil.Franklin.remove.this@ccw.ch, http://www.ccw.ch/Neil.Franklin/
for Geek Code, Papernet, Voicenet, PGP public key see http:
Mac, 95 and NT users are CLUEless (Command Line User Environment)
If I go missing, its once again my newsfeed that has craped
######
above file moved to:
http://neil.franklin.ch/Usenet/alt.folklore.computers/19980124_How_Jerry_Pournelle_was_kicked_off_the_Arapanet
home page generally moved to:
http://neil.franklin.ch/
######
From: kesinger@math.ttu.edu (Jake Kesinger)
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Subject: Re: How Jerry Pournelle was kicked off the Arapanet
Date: 27 Jan 1998 00:23:59 GMT
Organization: Texas Tech Mathematics Dept.
Lines: 20
Message-ID: <6aj9ev$kgp@ttacs7.ttu.edu>
References: <34cc18da.40166597@news.interlog.com> <6a5sea$rhq$1@nntp.ucs.ubc.ca> <6a8fbj$50s@news-central.tiac.net> <6ad9ar$o3d$1@nntp.ucs.ubc.ca>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ttmath.ttu.edu
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2]
Path: ccw.ch!aetna.dolphins.ch!news.planetc.com!newsfeed.usit.net!news-dc-3.sprintlink.net!news-dc-1.sprintlink.net!news-east.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!Sprint!newsfeed.internetmci.com!164.67.42.145!awabi.library.ucla.edu!128.165.3.8!newshost.lanl.gov!news.ttu.edu!kesinger
Neil.Franklin.remove.this@ccw.ch wrote:
: shoppa@alph02.triumf.ca (Tim Shoppa) was surprised:
: > These files were widely circulated
: > at the time; I was extremely surprised to not be able to find them
: > on the web today. I suppose the point-and-click generation simply
: > doesn't care about anything that happened over a decade ago - which
: > is too bad, as there's a fascinating amount of history contained
: > in the the attached file.
: It is now!
: http://www.ccw.ch/Neil.Franklin/Jokes_and_Fun/Pournelle_kicked_off_Arpanet
Well, I missed Tim's post, went to Neil's site, and Good Lord! this
guy is a nut. My already-low opinion of him has dropped even further.
The phrase ``net.kook'' is churning around in my brain.
--
--Jake _ Jake Kesinger (kesinger@math.ttu.edu), Outrageous Liar
PERTH -> _|*~- http://www.math.ttu.edu/~kesinger/
\, _} ``Although we have no quarrel with you, we *are* Samurai and
\( *will* give you what for.'' Miaowara Shimura. (Mark Rogers)