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I guess I've watched this spraying match long enough to make a few comments (note to self: does that make me a "lurker"?)

MF, your repeated insistence that Obama is a "Marxist" is strong evidence that you haven't even read the Wikipedia stuff on what Marx wrote. Check Karl out sometimes. HIS views, which champion the complete elimination of individuality and personal innovation are downright scary. Scarier than anything Obama, or Beck (for that matter) has ever said. Hyperbole suits you and your arguments very poorly.

Assertions here that Beck represents the opinions of a "vast majority" of Americans are debatable, bordering on laughable. WHHI's nice cartoon collage on Beck imagining himself in the Oval Office is spot on. If anyone thinks even for a moment that Beck has a chance of that happening, I recommend professional help.

I'm surprised more people here haven't emphasized that Beck is, more than anything else, an ENTERTAINER. At least Rush is candid enough to admit THAT. And a poor one to boot. His greaseboard lectures where he frantically circles words and letters within words and argues that they mean something really sinister are embarrassing. They certainly aren't entertaining.

It's like me insisting that the relative popularity of Beck, Rush and other right wing broadcasters compared to their "liberal" competition on the air doesn't show how they've tapped into the nation's pulse far better than the "leftists" have, it merely indicates that these so called "true Americans" don't know how to read.

How else to explain the massive circulation of "leftist" publications such as the NY Times and the Washington Post, while efforts to mass market right leaning publications that actually make a profit these days have been failures??

Then again, maybe that's true!!

Beckheads who insist their disdain for federal civil rights legislation in recent decades involves "state's rights" and not racism deserve to be laughed off the sidewalk. Lynching mobs rarely gather energy from cerebral political issues like "state's rights". More often than not, it's simple, raw fear and hatred that make panicky people reach for the rope. Civil rights involve simple fairness and justice. Sometimes the government has to step in to protect.

We'll have a better idea in about 2 months, after the November elections, won't we? If "tea party" conservatives win big, I'll eat my dog. Mainstream voters, IMO, still believe that the current economic troubles we're having are the legacy of the Reagan/Bush/Bush years. How anyone now can believe that claptrap about how cutting taxes will have a "trickle down" effect, increasing tax revenues as people spend more, escapes me. What a bunch of bullcrap THAT was.

I take comfort in the fact (well, its just my opinion) that MLK's words on the Mall more than 40 years ago will last far longer than the swill that Beck and his cronies spewed forth there on Saturday.

Your whole post. Well done.
And this part especially:
"Sometimes the government has to step in to protect".
MF seems very preoccupied with who to thank for his "unalienable rights". What he fails to realize is that without protection, those "God-given" rights (in his eyes) will be stripped away. Sometimes the government should step in.... especially if it is to protect your "unalienable rights".

BTW- Excatly how long of a drive is it from LaLa Land to SC? I just can't wait to get "poked" again! ;)

Thank you Ovid, for bringing a voice of sanity and reason to a thread where a select few like to insinuate, antagonize and "can't resist poking and running" after making a few nonsensical comments.

However, for most of them, "doing research" will definitely be in vain. You and others have repeatedly presented FACTS only to be countered by silliness, being ignored, changing the subject or dropping it altogether. Granted, it is their "unaliable right" to do so.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ "It's like the president's not our boyfriend anymore," Joan McCarter, an editor at the Daily Kos website

Glenn Beck never said he was a journalist and I think definitely he is NOT Presidential material. A community organizer? Most definitely. WOW! Who else was a community organizer? That person's name has just slipped my mind. Darn it!!!!
Also, Ovidsen, What kind of dog do you have? An English Mastiff? I hope your hungry!!!!

I was the one that introduced the states rights issue as being an important part of the transition of southern Democrats to the Republican Party.

Don't know where you are from or how old you are, but I was here when the local newspapers and stump meetings for the politicians were making their changes. The local rhetoric was different in the northern papers like the NYT and some magazines, like Life and Saturday Evening Post. Their focus was on dramatizing and inaccurately reporting local issues and focusing on race and violent incidents in some of the protests, making it appear that the entire south was in turmoil. Race always sells as sex does. But any protests in the north, like around Boston, wasn't printed that I saw.

Thurmond and other southern politicians were here in Beaufort talking to citizens and answering questions. Doubt if any of the northern papers would report their answers, but states rights and a smaller less intrusive federal government was the focus. Thurmond never once mentioned the proposed Civil rights legislation when we were talking to him.

He wasn't alone as other politicians stopped by. Even Senator Hollings, a Democrat, focused on states rights, but admitted that he would vote for the Civil Rights legislation in spite of the increased government overhead.

As for the economy, believe what you will, but the Reagan/Bush/Clinton/Bush years were some of the best markets in history, with the all time record for the Dow in 2008. The doom and gloom sites that blame those historic highs are narrow minded with the blame Bush syndrome. Their paranoia is so entrenched they may be blaming Bush in 20 years from now. Or maybe it was Abraham Lincoln's fault, another Republican?

I agree that MLK's word will be more historic and last longer than Becks. Unless someone on You Tube or its future equivalent brings up old clips up for laughs. He is an entertainer after all. "Remember 20 years ago when that guy, what's his name, said Obama or somebody was a Marxist?"

And don't waste time paying attention to claims that he has eyes on the White House. He'll never make the cut even to a primary. He might get close to the White House with a bucket of white paint and a roller.

Not trying to be the blog police, but the teacher in me comes out sometimes. The expression you gave, "Here, here" should be "Hear, hear!" meaning agreement and asking everyone to pay attention and listen.

According to this link, it originated in the British Parliament when reps agreed with a statement.

The all-time closing high for the Dow was on October 9, 2007, when it hit 14164.

On July 2, 2008, the Dow closed at 11215, more than 20% below that October 2007 high.

On November 20, 2008, the Dow closed at 7552.

But you said,
"As for the economy, believe what you will, but the Reagan/Bush/Clinton/Bush years were some of the best markets in history, with the all time record for the Dow in 2008. The doom and gloom sites that blame those historic highs are narrow minded with the blame Bush syndrome. Their paranoia is so entrenched they may be blaming Bush in 20 years from now. Or maybe it was Abraham Lincoln's fault, another Republican?"

A bit petulant to my ear, and I am calling you on it because it is at least the second time you've put the high in 2008 and ignored the bear market that summer and the precipitous drop by the end of the year.

Thanks for the correction. I was going by memory when I transferred some of my investments in 2008. I had forgotten the high in 2007. Should have remembered because I had transferred two mutual funds before that from low risk to high risk to capitalize on the optimistic talk. But yes I am aware of the drop after the high. Usually happens after a high. Tide comes in and then it goes out. Too bad the markets are not as predictable as the tides.

But I'll agree that Bush started the instability with the TARP bill. Clearly not a conservative move and he made a lot of conservatives angry with that bill. But we can't forget that Obama extended the move and even went well beyond, extending the general instability of the economy with deficits and debts that we see now. .

Bush presided over a series of bubbles that some saw inflating. He did zip, nada. In Sept of 2008, the Republican presidential candidate said that the fundamentals of the economy were strong, until he suspended his campaign to help fix them, and then didn't.

The TARP bill was indeed a Bush initiative, but by then the markets and the whole economy were crumbling. The TARP bill was certainly NOT the start of the instability as you just suggested.

Most of post here from memories. Your post was from your memory. And I have my share of lapses as others do.

Right, the TARP wasn't THE cause, but it was a factor. The instability in the mortgage and large banks was the main reason for instability. And I don't want to get into the blame game on that one, because there is enough blame to go around for many years prior.

I have graded a lot of tests and exams, including written ones. Odd that errors in spelling and grammar are readily apparent to me then, but when I proof read my own writing, I will sometimes miss glaring errors. The psychologists probably have a name for that. If I am writing something important, I get my wife, who has a Masters in English, to proofread. But I hate that, because she may try to rewrite what I have said. Her style is different than mine. She treats me like one of her students when she gets in the teacher mode. But that is ok, she asks me for advice when it comes to math or science issues. I even have to figure out her cooking recipe changes or sewing arithmetic, like on her sewing patterns. You might say we complement each other's skills.

I posted because my memory told me you were wrong, but I checked my facts before I stated them as facts. You, heron, continue to assert many things that in my mind are questionable, like the rest of the post that included your erroneous statement about the markets in 2008. How convenient that your memory so consistently supports your ideological bent.

You may not want to engage in "the blame game" about the Bush economy, and I will respect that but I will also suggest that you not make an example of it if you're not willing to defend it, with facts of course.

As a long time blogger to the BT, now lurker/troll with new identity (trust me, it was almost impossible to become so), these blogs have become down right ridiculous. This one blog being almost the smelliest of vomit with the back and forth. I hope every one here knows this retoric, (including this post by me) stays on google as bottom barrel scum that further pollutes and divides us Americans, and only perceives us as irresponsible users of freedom of speech. I so wish these sort of blogs would be posted in a different forum 60 thousand IP numbers away. These sort of blogs are ruining what The BT Blogs used to be. I want to hear what people are doing in our community, what their passions are, where they enjoy the best breakfast, lunch and dinner. I'm being serious, please don't drag me into a political rant (I don't go there). Lets talk about the life that surrounds us and what it has to offer. I love to fish, go to parks, watch movies, talk about zombie survival, raising my children, what happens at the sandbar. I'm being random here. Sorry to rain on the blog......but come on folks... i actually know a number of you personally. Can we take a break for at least a week from politics? We have lives here besides Glenn Beck (nut Job) and Obama (vacations to much when job is important). BT wont miss me, but if this place doesn't change soon, I'm out of here. I've seen so many go already. so many are tired of the left/right argument, I feel sure.

Thank you, mario, from one "libtard" to another, but let's avoid the "left/right stuff". LOL

I think this is my last word on the topic of politics and faith, but maybe not:

"You cannot be president of the United States if you don't have faith. Remember Lincoln, going to his knees in times of trial and the Civil War and all that stuff. You can't be. And we are blessed. So don't feel sorry for — don't cry for me, Argentina. Message: I care."
— George H W Bush speaking to employees of an insurance company during the 1992 New Hampshire primary

What a joke. So much is being made about that disgraceful gathering. Yet none of the speakers seemed able to define exactly what was meant by "restoring honor,"

Appears to me these people stand for the pre-60's America when Jim Crow was alive and well and the so-called "commies" were being rooted out by Joe McCarthy. The only thing missing was the bed sheets and burning crosses. Must've forgot to get permits.

I did digress. Here's a very interesting article coming from one who would know. No guessing, implying, insinuating, wishing or hoping, Just the facts. FACTS!

Thanks for the pats of the back, my fellow "leftist libtard Marxists"! Frankly, there are better posts than mine here. You know who you are.

I'm no longer a Bluffton resident, as most of you know, but I lived there for 3 years, including when BT was born, and I quickly grew to love the place. I read BT on line (the paper and the blogs) so I can stay current with the place where two close blood relatives still live. I can't comment on the Sand Bar or day to day things like traffic, local politics and where you can find good eatin' because, well, I'm not there. What do I know? But it sure is fun reading.

Ginxscy, I was looking for that Marketwatch piece on Stockman rejecting just about everything he said 25+ years ago on "trickle down" (or is that "piddle down"?) economics. Thanks for the tip.

And thanks for posting links to Uncle Pork chop's comments on national politics, pb. For a guy who wishes there were more local topics here, he can be quite strident when it comes to dissing "libtards", can't he?

On the "states rights" question... heron, there were certainly Democratic politicians in the South in the '50s and '60s who used that argument to question Washington's efforts to dismantle Jim Crow, but IMO they were rationalizing. George Wallace strutting on the schoolyard steps declaring "segregation now, segregation forever" and Lester Maddox passing out ax handles paint a much more accurate picture of the mood among many Southern whites at the time. Pure and simple racism fueled by fear, IMO. I was born and raised in the North, but by wife was born and raised in Atlanta. Her father was heavily involved in Georgia politics. She is proud of her heritage, but the stories she tells... You can try to sugar-coat it, but the fact remains that back then, blacks were treated as second class citizens. who had to quite literally fear for their lives if they were in the wrong place at the wrong time. Not that Yankees were all that much better, but (for one thing) the racism up north was far less institutionalized. Yes, things are better now. Yes, racism is not a one way street. But it's wrong to try and hide the kind of visceral hate that was radiated by many Southern whites back then behind some kind of intellectual smokescreen like "state's rights". Having said that, let me add that I have a lot of respect for you, heron. You've lived around Bluffton your whole life, you're not exactly a spring chicken, and the changes you've seen could never have been predicted. I am not trying to patronize you here. You have a very keen insight into the world of the Low Country, and the world in general. More importantly, you have shown over and over again that you have am open mind, which is a lot more than many people half our age can say. FYI, I'm not quite as long in the tooth as you are. But I am semi-retired and my wife's on Social Security, which should give you an idea.

Whew. My head hurts. Maybe it IS time to move on to topics like "zombie survival".

I agree with what you posted. Certainly blacks were second class citizens in an institutionalized way. Lots of southern Christians wondered why and I know I did. And I saw the defacto segregation and racism in the north from first hand experiences. Not the best times in American history.

And as I posted before, one of my ancestors was a Captain in the CSA. He had a diary and wrote, " Slavery is an abomination in a Christian nation." I agree with him. In fact, none of my ancestors in the south owned slaves. They raised large families to do their work with an occasional hired man that lived on those farms. None were wealthy, so they couldn't have afforded them even if they wanted.

But my point was that the press loved to get hold of characters like Lester Maddox to stereotype southerners. I faced that stereotype in the army when a fellow arrogant lieutenant from Boston asked me if I sat on my porch and sipped mint juleps while the slaves were at work. He really believed it, I think. My reply was that I don't drink and that we were too poor to have slaves. Then I invited him to the gym for a boxing match. He refused, even though he was bigger than I.

My grandfather was truck farming and raised cattle in the depression and had about 50 local black employees. He was always trying to help them and allowed them to take food home out of the fields. On Thanksgiving, he always butchered 5 hogs and gave the meat away to his employees. They had a lot of respect for him, which was shown at his funeral in 1956. One of the local black Baptist churches asked to let a male quartet come and sing during his funeral. They sang 4 spirituals and it was a very moving experience.

We continued the policy of letting employees, 300 in the 1960s to carry food home in season and we helped them when we could. Some of them came in tears when they found out we were having to close down the farm. In fact, many applied for government entitlement programs when farming closed out in this area. Many couldn't read or write, so I helped about a hundred or so in filling out paper work, including applying for SS numbers. They signed an "X" and I signed as a witness. I ignored my conservative political views in the desire to help them in a bad situation. There was no employment for them.

The blog I started about the Fuller Plantation also showed that there were good relations even among plantation owners and slaves. Dr. Fuller was a great and kind man and as the article said, former slaves still loved the man even after emancipation.

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