http://s.wsj.net/media/bail_out_HV_20080925204535.jpg
President Bush, second from right, meets with John McCain, far left, and Barack Obama, far right, and congressional leaders in the Cabinet Room of the White House on Thursday. (AP)

Congressional Democratic leaders wasted no time pointing the blame at House Republicans and in particular Republican presidential candidate John McCain after a tentative deal on the $700 billion financial sector bailout proposal blew up following an afternoon meeting at the White House.

“I would suggest that anyone in that meeting who tried to understand what John McCain said at that meeting, couldn’t,” Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid of Nevada told reporters Thursday evening.

McCain suspended his campaign to return to Washington D.C. to take part in negotiations on the bailout. Barack Obama also returned after President Bush requested he attend today’s meeting. Reid suggested McCain’s return injected politics in to the negotiations. McCain was the last one to speak at the White House meeting, Reid said, and he “didn’t say anything substantive.”

“John McCain did nothing to help, he only hurt the process,” Reid said, further chastising McCain for calling for a delay in Friday’s presidential debate in Mississippi. “We should not let this little effort to avoid participating in the debates sidetrack this most important issue,” Reid said.

Growing resistance among House Republicans played a greater role in stalling negotiations, as a faction of GOP lawmakers released principles for a competing bailout proposal as it became increasingly clear that the tentative agreement did not have broad support in the House Republican Conference. One House Republican aide estimated that no more than 45 House Republicans would support the current proposal.

Key negotiators expressed surprise at the counter proposal. Reid said he was “stunned” by House Minority Leader John Boehner of Ohio who had previously expressed his support for passing a bipartisan plan.

House Speaker Nancy Pelosi has said she does not want to bring a bill to the floor without a significant number of House Republicans on board. Democrats are not keen to take political ownership of a Bush administration proposal less than six weeks before Election Day.

“If it’s going to pass, it needs to be bipartisan,” House Majority Leader Steny Hoyer of Maryland told reporters, adding that he has “confidence” that Boehner is working to that end. “I hope that his Conference will cooperate in that effort.” Hoyer declined to say how many House Republicans would have to be on board for Democrats to bring the measure to the floor.

Reid said negotiations will begin again at 8:00pm/ET tonight. Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson and Federal Reserve Chairman Ben Bernanke were headed back to Capitol Hill to meet with lawmakers. Reid said he asked Paulson to “do what he can” to get House Republicans on board.

“It’s all very fuzzy to us, we don’t know where we are,” House Financial Services Committee Chairman Barney Frank told reporters on the status of negotiations. Frank also suggested McCain’s return to Capitol Hill hurt negotiations.

“Sen. McCain has not been involved in this,” Frank said, noting the Arizona senator does not sit on any committees of jurisdiction and did not take place in earlier negotiations. “I think this was a campaign ploy by Sen. McCain,” he said, “He slowed it down. I don’t know if he caused it or what.” Echoing Reid, Frank said McCain should participate in Friday’s presidential debate, adding that if he doesn’t it’s “only because he doesn’t want to.”

UPDATE: “As far as I know Sen. McCain has not endorsed this plan. This is not a product of his campaign,” Virginia Republican Rep. Eric Cantor told reporters tonight. Cantor is leading the coalition of House Republicans who devised the competing plan with the consent of Boehner; he took issue with characterizations that Republicans surprised negotiators with their proposal.

“We’ve been talking about this plan for at least two days,” he said. Cantor defended McCain’s decision to return to Washington for “trying to affect the change needed” to get a bill done. “I applaud him in coming back and making sure that as a senator he is here to do that,” he said.

Nightfyre

09-25-2008, 07:26 PM

Well at least someone is slowing the process down, even if inadvertently.

Inside an intense White House meeting over the financial crisis on Thursday, where nearly every key player came to an agreement on the outlines of the bailout package, Sen. John McCain stuck out. The Republican candidate, according to sources with direct knowledge, sat quiet through most of the meeting, never offered specifics, and spoke only at the end to raise doubts about the rough compromise that the White House and congressional leaders were nearing.

McCain's reluctance to jump on board the bailout agreement could throw the entire week-long negotiation into a tailspin. Sen. Chris Dodd, after leaving the White House, suggested on CNN that the tenuous process could be derailed by what he viewed as McCain's political motives.

"What happened here, basically, if you want an honest appraisal of the thing, we have been spending a lot of time and I am tired. I have spent almost seven straight days at this in trying to come out with a workout plan for our economy a rescue plan," said Dodd. "What this looked like to me was a rescue plan for John McCain for two hours and took us away from the work we are trying to do today. Serious people trying to do serious work to come up with an answer."

According to the source with knowledge of the White House gathering -- which featured both presidential candidates, congressional leaders and the President -- virtually ever key figure in the room, save McCain and GOP Sen. Richard Shelby, were in agreement over a revised version of Treasury Secretary Hank Paulson's plan.

Towards the end, McCain finally spoke up, mentioning a counter-proposal that had been offered by some conservative House Republicans, which would suspend the capital gains tax for two years and provide tax incentives to encourage firms that buy up bad debt. McCain did not discuss specifics of the plan, though, and was non-committal about supporting it.

Paulson, however, argued directly against the conservative proposal. "He said that he did not think it would work," according to the source. At another point in the meeting, President Bush chimed in, "If money isn't loosened, this sucker could go down" -- and by sucker he meant economy.

ABC News reported that, following the meeting, Paulson "walked into the room where Democrats were caucusing...at the White House and pleaded with them 'please don't blow this up.'" But this story isn't incomplete, according to sources.

Democrats stayed talking in the Roosevelt room and Paulson approached them. After his comment, Speaker Pelosi and Rep. Barney Frank shot back that the real problem was with House Republicans. Paulson replied, "I know, I know," as he got down on one knee to lighten the mood. Pelosi joked back, "I didn't know you were a Catholic."

After the White House meeting, Shelby, the top Republican on the Senate Banking Committee, restated his long-standing opposition to the bailout, and suggested that a deal was not, as reported earlier in the day, imminent. But Shelby's no. 2 on the committee, Sen. Bob Bennett, supports the compromise principles, as do other top GOP House and Senate leaders.

Dodd himself was incensed that the hard work he and others had put in could be undermined at the last minute.

"We were told it came out of the Republican House. We were told at this one point that this was maybe John McCain was floating the idea that Hank Paulson was considering it," Dodd said of the proposal, which he did not elaborate upon. "And of course Barney Frank and I, along with Republicans from the House and the Senate, had spent three hours this morning working on a different core. We were told for the last seven days it was the core issue to give the Secretary authority to move with the crisis, but simultaneously protect the taxpayers and accountability and deal with foreclosure issues all of the things the president mentioned last evening were going to be important as well."

Obama himself did not directly take McCain to task at his post-meeting press avail, but suggested that his methods were not helping the process.

"What I found and I think was confirmed today when you inject presidential politics into delicate negotiations it is not necesary as helpsful as it could be," he said, according to Politico's Carrie Budoff Brown. "When you are not worried about who is getting credit and who is getting blamed you tend to move forward more constructively."

Why should we be involved? It not like they're doling out our tax dollars to private entities or something...oh wait.

***SPRAYER

09-25-2008, 07:39 PM

Let the bodies hit the floor.

Mr. Laz

09-25-2008, 07:39 PM

Why should we be involved? It not like they're doling out our tax dollars to private entities or something...oh wait.

i know, i know

i'm just saying that i'm not ready to call out McCain on this until we know more.

Logical

09-25-2008, 07:40 PM

This was so obvious, always part of the plan to support him not being at the debate. Dude is seriously scared of this economic debate. Will serve them right if the Debate goes on with only Obama there. True that would be more of a national press conference, but it would serve McCain right.

***SPRAYER

09-25-2008, 07:41 PM

This was so obvious, always part of the plan to support him not being at the debate. Dude is seriously scared of this economic debate. Will serve them right if the Debate goes on with only Obama there. True that would be more of a national press conference, but it would serve McCain right.

ROFL

Mr. Laz

09-25-2008, 07:42 PM

This was so obvious, always part of the plan to support him not being at the debate. Dude is seriously scared of this economic debate. Will serve them right if the Debate goes on with only Obama there. True that would be more of a national press conference, but it would serve McCain right.

i guess this would be my first stance too if i wasn't so irritated by such a huge bailout in the first place.

memyselfI

09-25-2008, 07:43 PM

I knew this was a trap set and the DEMS had walked right into it. If this works and McCain gets a smaller plan or a plan that does not involve taxpayer dollars then he wins the election...:doh!:

The entire scenario ends up upside down. McCain bucks the POTUS and his party (maverick), defends the taxpayers and main street (populist), and takes his huge economic weakness and makes it his strength. If this works it was a brilliant ploy.

***SPRAYER

09-25-2008, 07:43 PM

This is crazy. Let's give money to the enablers.

Mr. Laz

09-25-2008, 07:45 PM

I knew this was a trap set and the DEMS had walked right into it. If this works and McCain gets a smaller plan or a plan that does not involve taxpayer dollars then he wins the election...:doh!:

very possible

GOP throws out huge bailout with a specific plan of letting McCain come to the rescue and bring out a lesser more taxpayer friendly plan.

GOP throws out huge bailout with a specific plan of letting McCain come to the rescue and bring out a lesser more taxpayer friendly plan.

would be very devious and smart

Honestly, I haven't ruled that out. The whole thing could be a ruse. Which is sad and outrageous in and of itself.

Mr. Laz

09-25-2008, 07:48 PM

Honestly, I haven't ruled that out. The whole thing could be a ruse. Which is sad and outrageous in and of itself.
right up Rove's alley

memyselfI

09-25-2008, 07:49 PM

Honestly, I haven't ruled that out. The whole thing could be a ruse. Which is sad and outrageous in and of itself.

But oh so indicative of the nature of the beast. Afterall, the CONS would have again used NObama's perceived strength against himself.

'Hamas' Jenkins

09-25-2008, 07:50 PM

I knew this was a trap set and the DEMS had walked right into it. If this works and McCain gets a smaller plan or a plan that does not involve taxpayer dollars then he wins the election...:doh!:

The entire scenario ends up upside down. McCain bucks the POTUS and his party (maverick), defends the taxpayers and main street (populist), and takes his huge economic weakness and makes it his strength. If this works it was a brilliant ploy.

ROFL...yeah, the bear trap was the Republicans bucking for more tax breaks for corporations and suspending the capital gains taxes.

***SPRAYER

09-25-2008, 07:50 PM

I think I just opened a can of worms.

memyselfI

09-25-2008, 07:52 PM

ROFL...yeah, the bear trap was the Republicans bucking for more tax breaks for corporations and suspending the capital gains taxes.

Jesus. ****ing. Christ.Main street is going to love that. He should also toss out a $600 check for everyone. Those are big ole economy boosters.

Friendo

09-25-2008, 07:54 PM

who sez "the Hammer" is dead? his spirit lives on

I smells bugspray

memyselfI

09-25-2008, 07:54 PM

Main street is going to love that. He should also toss out a $600 check for everyone. Those are big ole economy boosters.

Exactly, ANYTHING that doesn't look as if the taxpayers are DIRECTLY bailing out Wall Street as the consensus accepted the original plan was going to do.

McCain could be hailed a hero or a goat. He obviously sees an opening (created for him, no doubt) that will give him the opportunity to be a hero. The DEMS would have enabled the entire scenario to play out by being so willing to follow DUHbya off a cliff AGAIN.

The DEMS see this now. That is why they are tripping all over themselves to pass this thing ASAP when their better judgment tells them they shouldn't.

'Hamas' Jenkins

09-25-2008, 07:54 PM

You are laughing...

for now.

You are again projecting your hope over logic.

Look, if the Democrats were as gullible as you believe, they would have rushed to Bush's side and plowed through this thing by Wednesday.

They didn't do that. They called the Republican's bluff. They aren't going to pass this without Republican support, because then they can get branded as supporting it as well.

Moreover, the Dems are attaching populist measures to this, whereas the Republicans are attaching corporatist measures.

This isn't the Iraq resolution.

'Hamas' Jenkins

09-25-2008, 07:56 PM

Exactly, ANYTHING that doesn't look as if the taxpayers are DIRECTLY bailing out Wall Street as the consensus accepted the original plan was going to do.

:spock:

So Obama could in no way release an ad saying that "When the biggest financial crisis since the Depression hit, what did John McCain do? He argued for more tax breaks for the corporations who got us into this mess."

You are completely delusional.

Friendo

09-25-2008, 07:56 PM

I think I just opened a can of maggotts

fyp
goooooooddamn you!

trndobrd

09-25-2008, 07:56 PM

This was so obvious, always part of the plan to support him not being at the debate. Dude is seriously scared of this economic debate. Will serve them right if the Debate goes on with only Obama there. True that would be more of a national press conference, but it would serve McCain right.

Exactly. McCain is just trying to duck the debate, just like he did the 10 townhall debates that were proposed.

banyon

09-25-2008, 07:58 PM

Exactly. McCain is just trying to duck the debate, just like he did the 10 townhall debates that were proposed.

Or the Lincoln-Douglas styled debates that were proposed?

memyselfI

09-25-2008, 07:58 PM

You are again projecting your hope over logic.

Look, if the Democrats were as gullible as you believe, they would have rushed to Bush's side and plowed through this thing by Wednesday.

They didn't do that. They called the Republican's bluff. They aren't going to pass this without Republican support, because then they can get branded as supporting it as well.

Moreover, the Dems are attaching populist measures to this, whereas the Republicans are attaching corporatist measures.

This isn't the Iraq resolution.

They DID rush to his side. Look who he has arguing FOR it right now. Barney Frank, Chris Dodd, Nancy Pelosi, Harry Reid.

How many prominent CONS do you see doing his bidding??? :doh!:ROFL

They are pouting because the plan they supported is being stalled and meanies like McCain and the American people are depriving Wall Street 700 billion dollars. ROFL

Mr. Laz

09-25-2008, 07:58 PM

:spock:

So Obama could in no way release an ad saying that "When the biggest financial crisis since the Depression hit, what did John McCain do? He argued for more tax breaks for the corporations who got us into this mess."

You are completely delusional.
we just don't know yet

i'm not that thrilled with this 700 billion dollar bail job

if McCain isn't either then i'm ok with that

now if he is looking for more corp welfare or is playing politics with this problem then he should be kicked repeatedly in the groin.

laz
~waiting for more info~

banyon

09-25-2008, 08:00 PM

They DID rush to his side. Look who he has arguing FOR it right now. Barney Frank, Chris Dodd, Nancy Pelosi, Harry Reid.

How many prominent CONS do you see doing his bidding??? :doh!:ROFL

They are pouting because the plan they supported is being stalled and we are depriving Wall Street 700 billion dollars. ROFL

Er Paulson, Boehner, McConnell?

memyselfI

09-25-2008, 08:02 PM

Er Paulson, Boehner, McConnell?

Boehner is not. He's been saying there was no deal. He's trying to offer an alternative and Paulson said it wouldn't work without even hearing many details. The moron, Stenny Hoyer was on TV saying that Congress would have to work thru the weekend to make sure the bill passes.

The DEMS are on the WRONG side of this and they are too stupid to notice. ROFL

'Hamas' Jenkins

09-25-2008, 08:05 PM

we just don't know yet

i'm not that thrilled with this 700 billion dollar bail job

if McCain isn't either then i'm ok with that

now if he is looking for more corp welfare or is playing politics with this problem then he should be kicked repeatedly in the groin.

laz
~waiting for more info~

I am on record as being wholly against the bailout. However, when presented with the opportunity to reform Wall Street, what did McCain do?

He proposed more corporate tax breaks, and no capital gains taxes.

He just set himself to get flogged by Obama.

He tried to play hero and everyone is seeing through it. 75% of people think McCain should go to the debate. 75%. That includes independents and Republicans.

Now, McCain either gives Obama 90 minutes of free national air time, or he goes back on his own pledge not to attend the debates. He just took a 12 gauge to his foot.

memyselfI

09-25-2008, 08:07 PM

I am on record as being wholly against the bailout. However, when presented with the opportunity to reform Wall Street, what did McCain do?

He proposed more corporate tax breaks, and no capital gains taxes.

He just set himself to get flogged by Obama.

He tried to play hero and everyone is seeing through it. 75% of people think McCain should go to the debate. 75%. That includes independents and Republicans.

Now, McCain either gives Obama 90 minutes of free national air time, or he goes back on his own pledge not to attend the debates. He just took a 12 gauge to his foot.

Where are you getting that he's proposed more tax breaks and no capital gains. I heard he didn't show his cards today and neither side has any idea where he's going...

of course, one side DOES know.

'Hamas' Jenkins

09-25-2008, 08:08 PM

Where are you getting that he's proposed more tax breaks and no capital gains. I heard he didn't show his cards today and neither side has any idea where he's going...

of course, one side DOES know.

Perhaps the third mother****ing post of this very thread? (http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showpost.php?p=5053573&postcount=3)

BucEyedPea

09-25-2008, 08:08 PM

Wow! McCain is doing something good slowing it down.
Reid and Franks sound like tards!

banyon

09-25-2008, 08:09 PM

Boehner is not. He's been saying there was no deal. He's trying to offer an alternative and Paulson said it wouldn't work.

No. Boehner has said that we need to work as quickly as posible to resolve this. He appears to have changed his mind only as McCain arrived.

http://a.abcnews.com/Video/playerIndex?id=5849818

memyselfI

09-25-2008, 08:10 PM

The DEMS are now in a position to be fighting DUHbya's battles against renegade and rebel Republicans and John McCain.

ROFLROFLROFLROFL

'Hamas' Jenkins

09-25-2008, 08:10 PM

Wow! McCain is doing something good slowing it down.
Reid and Franks sound like tards!

The Democrats are not supporting this without the Republicans on board.

banyon

09-25-2008, 08:11 PM

Boehner is not. He's been saying there was no deal. He's trying to offer an alternative and Paulson said it wouldn't work without even hearing many details. The moron, Stenny Hoyer was on TV saying that Congress would have to work thru the weekend to make sure the bill passes.

The DEMS are on the WRONG side of this and they are too stupid to notice. ROFL

They should be on the "cut capital gains and corporate tax rates" side?

Maybe they should just staple giant "R"'s to their chests too in the name of compromise?

Logical

09-25-2008, 08:11 PM

...

UPDATE: CBS News reports that McCain's alternative proposal includes "fewer regulations and corporate tax breaks":McCain is committing political suicide, if this is true. Talking about blowback, he will lose as many voters as he gained with the Palin political move if true.

memyselfI

09-25-2008, 08:12 PM

No. Boehner has said that we need to work as quickly as posible to resolve this. He appears to have changed his mind only as McCain arrived.

http://a.abcnews.com/Video/playerIndex?id=5849818

CNN reported the House Republicans have been trying to introduce other proposals and getting nowhere. McCain shows up and now they are being heard. NONE of these proposals were HIS but rather House Republicans.

NObama is now going to be in a position to vigorously fight FOR DUHBya's plan or JOIN McCain in stalling it and looking for alternatives. :clap:

memyselfI

09-25-2008, 08:13 PM

The Democrats are not supporting this without the Republicans on board.

The Republicans aren't out there :deevee::deevee::deevee:tonight that they are being delayed in sending Wall Street a check.

NewChief

09-25-2008, 08:13 PM

CNN reported the House Republicans have been trying to introduce other proposals and getting nowhere. McCain shows up and now they are being heard.

NObama is now going to be in a position to vigorously fight FOR DUHBya's plan or JOIN McCain in stalling it and looking for alternatives. :clap:

You have zero understanding of what's going on.

Taco John

09-25-2008, 08:14 PM

This thread would be a half interesting read if it wasn't half full with Dense's half-baked, wholly biased "analysis."

'Hamas' Jenkins

09-25-2008, 08:14 PM

The DEMS are now in a position to be fighting DUHbya's battles against renegade and rebel Republicans and John McCain.

ROFLROFLROFLROFL

Please, God, vote for John McCain. I really hope that you do. I don't care if it cancels out someone else's vote, because you are such a contemptuous, utterly worthless sack of shit, such a vile miscreant, so hopelessly duplicitous and without merit, that the mere fact of knowing that I voted against you a second time will be more than enough salve to allay any wounds that may be associated with the cancellation of a vote.

Mr. Laz

09-25-2008, 08:14 PM

CNN reported the House Republicans have been trying to introduce other proposals and getting nowhere. McCain shows up and now they are being heard.

NObama is now going to be in a position to vigorously fight FOR DUHBya's plan or JOIN McCain in stalling it and looking for alternatives. :clap:
still stumping for Hillary '12, i see.

Logical

09-25-2008, 08:16 PM

ROFLIt has already been discussed, between the group organizing the debates. Mississippi State and Obama's campaign team. Think about it, this could work, a huge national TV interview with all the networks covering it. Would the audience be the same as a true debate, but it would still be huge.

'Hamas' Jenkins

09-25-2008, 08:16 PM

McCain is committing political suicide, if this is true. Talking about blowback, he will lose as many voters as he gained with the Palin political move if true.

Funny how she asks for support for that claim (that's in this very thread), I show it to her, and I get no response.

The rat flea didn't even read the goddamned story (obviously). She just came in here to run her ignorant mouth and spew her hate and her love of misery.

memyselfI

09-25-2008, 08:18 PM

Funny how she asks for support for that claim (that's in this very thread), I show it to her, and I get no response.

The rat flea didn't even read the goddamned story (obviously). She just came in here to run her ignorant mouth and spew her hate and her love of misery.

I saw your post. CNN is reporting something different.

banyon

09-25-2008, 08:19 PM

McCain is committing political suicide, if this is true. Talking about blowback, he will lose as many voters as he gained with the Palin political move if true.

What do you expect? His campaign's economic adviser was one of the architects of this crisis in the first place.

Hey, Wall Street screwed everything up, we'd better let them rewrite the rules to their advantage again so we ensure this scenario repeats itself.

All part of shock politics.

______________
AMY GOODMAN: While the collapse of this country’s financial system continues to send shock waves around the world, I’m joined on the telephone by bestselling author of The Shock Doctrine, Naomi Klein. Her latest article for the Huffington Post is called “Now Is the Time to Resist Wall Street’s Shock Doctrine.” Naomi Klein, welcome to Democracy Now!

NAOMI KLEIN: Thanks, Amy. Great to talk with you.

AMY GOODMAN: Explain. What do you mean?

NAOMI KLEIN: Well, the thesis of my book, what I mean by the “shock doctrine,” is that it is in times of crisis, it is in times when people are panicked, when we’ve seen again and again the right push through radical pro-corporate policies, what they call “free market reforms,” precisely because it is in a crisis where the space for debate rapidly closes, and you can invoke this state of emergency to say we have no choice.

And I think we’re seeing a very dramatic example of this tactic right now with this really extortionist kind of tactics playing out in Washington. You know, “Sign this blank check, or we’re all going down, or Main Street is going down, or taxpayers—you know, the sky will fall in on them.”

I’m also arguing that this is only stage one of the shock doctrine. They’re getting this—they’re lobbying for this huge bailout, obviously, but this bailout is a kind of a time bomb, because it’s all these bad debts, and they are going to explode on the next administration. I mean, we know that the Bush administration has already left the next administration with huge debt and deficit problems. They’ve just exploded those, expanded them. And what that means is that whoever the next president is is going to be inheriting this economic crisis that is being exacerbated by this bailout.

So, in the case of McCain, I think—if he’s the president, then I think we know what he’ll do, because we know he wants to privatize Social Security, which is something that Wall Street’s been wanting for a long time, another bubble. We know he has said in the next—in the first 100 days of his administration he’ll look at every program and either reform it or shut it down. This is really a recipe for economic shock therapy. So, while you have all of these trivial issues being discussed in the election season, I think what we could—what we’re really—you know, under the surface, they’re actually being quite clear. They’re going to take—if they take power, it will be in the midst of an economic emergency. They’ll invoke that emergency to push through very, very radical changes. So, you know, what I’ve been saying is, this is not four more years of Bush; it’s much, much worse in the case of another Republican administration.

But there’s huge problems for Democrats, as well, if they win this election, because, you know, we need to only think back to the situation in which Clinton took power, where he ran an election on an economic populist platform, promising to renegotiate NAFTA. Then there was an economic crisis. Clinton came under intense lobbying by people like Robert Rubin, who’s also advising Obama right now, and by the time he took office, he had embraced economic austerity.

So, people need to understand these tactics, need to put pressure on the candidates, the parties, and reject this tactic. And I’ve actually been really heartened, Amy, that people are onto these shock tactics and aren’t falling for it. And, you know, to the extent that we’re seeing a little bit of spine from the Democrats, it is only, as Chris Dodd said, because they are hearing it from their constituents. So people need to keep up this pressure right now.

AMY GOODMAN: Naomi Klein, one of the things you write about in this piece in Huffington Post is the wish list that comes from former Republican House Speaker Newt Gingrich—

NAOMI KLEIN: Yes.

AMY GOODMAN: —laying out policy prescriptions for Congress.

NAOMI KLEIN: Yeah. I mean, there is pressure being put on Congress from Democrats who—you know, we’ve heard the proposals to cap executive pay and to have a moratorium on foreclosures. It’s coming not from all Democrats, but from some. But there’s something going on on the Republican side, where you have people like Newt Gingrich, and you also have the Republican Study Committee, which is a group of very influential Republican lawmakers who are saying that they’re opposed to the bailout, and they also have their wish list. And I think it is that it’s not that they’re going to oppose a bailout completely; it’s that they want economic changes, right-wing, pro-corporate economic changes, attached to a bailout. So, Newt Gingrich has his list. He’s got eighteen demands. But I think even more important than that is the Republican Study Committee, and I raise this because they’ve just issued their ransom list. It starts with suspending the capital gains tax, privatizing Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, suspending mark-to-market accounting, which is the rule that requires companies to assess their assets at current market values.

So, what’s so stunning about this, Amy, is that here you have a crisis that everyone seems to agree is borne of deregulation, and they’re actually calling for more deregulation. We have a situation where the debt is exploding on American taxpayers, and they want to suspend corporate profits—sorry, corporate taxes, which is actually what might defray some of those costs from regular taxpayers. So it’s an incredible display of opportunism. And this is what I mean by stage two of the shock doctrine. The first stage is just the bailout, but the second stage are all of these radical reforms that are going to be invoked in the name of the crisis that the bailout is creating, whether it’s pushed through right now or whether it’s pushed through later.

But what’s important—you know, Amy, in the book, I talk about—I start the book with a quote from Milton Friedman that has really made the rounds a lot lately, which is that—and this is a Friedman quote—that “only a crisis, actual or perceived, produces real change. And when the crisis occurs, the change depends on the ideas that are lying around." And then he goes on to say, “That, I believe, is our basic function: to keep the ideas ready until the politically impossible becomes politically inevitable.” So I think it’s really important for people to look at the ideas that are lying around.

There’s enormous corporate lobbying going on to, for instance, eliminate the post-Enron collapse regulations, to actually say that the way to save the American economy—you know, you heard Henry Paulson equating—still equating the interests of the financial sector with the interests of everyone else. We know that’s simply not true. But it’s that—precisely that logic that then is used to say, OK, these are the—this is what the financial community, this is what the corporate world needs in order to revive the economy: they need less regulation, they need less taxation.

So, we should be really, really wary of this claim that we’re hearing that free market ideology is dead, that this marks the end of, you know, of capitalism. You know, I’m sorry, that is not the case. It may be going dormant for a little while to rationalize these massive bailouts, but it will come roaring back, and the crisis that is being deepened right now through these bailouts will be invoked for even more radical deregulation, privatization, tax cuts and so on.

AMY GOODMAN: You see this happen right after 9/11 with the USA PATRIOT Act being pushed through. You saw it with the vote in October of 2002 for the invasion of Iraq. It’s speed and the idea of an imminent threat.

NAOMI KLEIN: Absolutely.

AMY GOODMAN: And then, of course, this week it’s not only about passing this legislation, but it is passing it by Friday.

NAOMI KLEIN: Absolutely. You know, and a lot of people have even described this Paulson plan as an economic PATRIOT Act. You know, one of the mistakes that I think they made, honestly, Amy, is how short it is. It’s just three pages, which means—you know, usually these pieces of legislation are much longer, so people don’t even bother reading them in that moment of extortion—you know, “Pass it now, or else…or else the sky falls in.” So, you know, in this case, I think they made a miscalculation. You know, there was an interesting article in Time that just came out, where they actually say that they have been working—you know, this is a quote—it says, “[Paulson] and his team [have] been working on [this] proposal for more than six months.” So, it’s quite surprising that it is as pared down as it is. It’s three pages. And the craziest thing has happened: people have read it. Regular people have read it. It doesn’t take that much time. And, you know, you read Section 8, which is just so stunning, just so bold in its demand for total and complete impunity. And that’s really what’s getting in their way, is people are reading this text, and they’re frankly shocked by it.

You know, we heard Henry Paulson say that he thought it would have been presumptuous to put in clauses calling for regulation. This is absolute nonsense. Section 2 of the same document talks about how they have the right to hire contractors to administer this huge operation, and we know that that means contracting with some of the very firms who are going to be bailed out. And then it says that it would be—they would be contracting them without regard to any other provision of law regarding public contracts. Amy, that is just as—that’s Iraq levels of impunity, or even more. I mean, basically what they are saying is that we want to be able to contract with companies but exempt those companies from the existing laws that bar conflict of interest, that have whistleblowing laws. I mean, the laws exist on the books, and they are actively excluding these contracts from those laws. So the idea that they didn’t want to be presumptuous is complete nonsense. They are being extremely presumptuous, because they are actively excluding these contractors, these would-be contractors, from existing oversight. We have to be very clear about this.

AMY GOODMAN: It’s interesting who Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson is, served as an assistant to Richard Nixon’s assistant, John Ehrlichman, and moved right from there to Goldman Sachs, then became head of it when, well, the now-Senator and then-Governor Corzine left Goldman Sachs.

NAOMI KLEIN: You know, Amy, I don’t think we can stress this enough. Henry Paulson is one of the key people, the top people, responsible for creating the crisis that he is now claiming he will solve, you know, and this is—if we think about the 9/11 analogy and, you know, the state of shock that Americans were in after 9/11 and the emergence of Rudy Giuliani as the savior—and, you know, people have so much regret about that. And in the book, I write about this as the state of regression that we go into when we’re frightened. And I think Henry Paulson has really been cast in this role as an economic Rudy Giuliani, saving the day, impartial, bipartisan, a strong leader.

I found this article in BusinessWeek that ran when Paulson was appointed to the Treasury, and I just want to read you one sentence, because I think it’s all we need to know about Henry Paulson. This is from BusinessWeek, when he got the appointment as Treasury Secretary in 2006. The headline of the article is “Mr. Risk Goes to Washington.” It says, “Think of Paulson as Mr. Risk. He’s one of the key architects of a more daring Wall Street, where securities firms are taking greater and greater chances in [their] pursuit of profits. By some key measures, the securities industry is more leveraged now than it was at the height of the 1990s boom.”

Then it goes on to say that when Paulson took over Goldman Sachs in 1999, they had $20 billion in debts. When he—in these high-risk gambles. When he left, they had $100 billion, which means he took their risk level from $20 billion to $100 billion. So it is absolutely no exaggeration to say that Henry Paulson, far from speaking for Main Street, is actually bailing out his colleagues for some of the very debts that he himself accumulated. This is an extraordinary conflict of interest.

AMY GOODMAN: And then, of course, there’s the question of his own interests in Goldman Sachs today.

NAOMI KLEIN: Well, you know, allegedly, he divested from the company, so I can’t comment on that, but I think there’s some good investigation to be done.

Well, I'm not sure since they just presented them and CNN just had breaking news saying they included some mortgage insurance and capital gains tax proposals. Maybe the actual document has not been released to the media yet as the talks just ended.

ROFL, NObama stays in DC tonight.

'Hamas' Jenkins

09-25-2008, 08:25 PM

I saw your post. CNN is reporting something different.

I'm watching CNN, dumbass. They aren't reporting a goddamned thing about what he said.

If the New York Times says that a bomb went off in Times Square and the Washington Post has nothing up on their website, obviously the bomb didn't go off.

Obama's initial reaction was somewhat cautious. You're delusional if you think he's perceived as "cheering" Bush's plan, though. He's been quite clear that he doesn't support it without quite a few changes and stipulations. Quite a few Dems are also throwing out a preference for a staged payout with stipulations to be met before each payout. That's hardly the plan that Bush initially proposed, which would have turned over 700b to his dipshit flunkie to spend as he sees fit.

If Obama's take on it is that we need taxpayer protection and homeowner protection without golden parachutes for execs and McCain's plan is that we need corporate protection, I think even a bitterly delusional person such as yourself can see whose going to come out ahead in that fight.

Well, I'm not sure since they just presented them and CNN just had breaking news saying they included some mortgage insurance and capital gains tax proposals. Maybe the actual document has not been released to the media yet as the talks just ended.

ROFL, NObama stays in DC tonight.

So you're running your mouth and you have no idea. Thanks for playing.

memyselfI

09-25-2008, 08:32 PM

I'm watching CNN, dumbass. They aren't reporting a goddamned thing about what he said.

If the New York Times says that a bomb went off in Times Square and the Washington Post has nothing up on their website, obviously the bomb didn't go off.

Jesus, you are ****ing retarded.

They just had a reporter call in and interupted Anderson Cooper's interview with Gloria Borger, Ed Rollins, and whoever the third talking head was. The reporter said the alternate proposal included mortgage insurance which she said Paulson said wouldn't work and capital gains tax proposals. She said that the meeting had just ended and that Obama was spending the night in DC because the meeting will resume at 11:30 tomorrow.

SBK

09-25-2008, 08:32 PM

Slowing this thing down is the right move.

Now, get your butt to Mississippi and spend the night trading uhhhhs.

memyselfI

09-25-2008, 08:34 PM

Obama's initial reaction was somewhat cautious. You're delusional if you think he's perceived as "cheering" Bush's plan, though. He's been quite clear that he doesn't support it without quite a few changes and stipulations. Quite a few Dems are also throwing out a preference for a staged payout with stipulations to be met before each payout. That's hardly the plan that Bush initially proposed, which would have turned over 700b to his dipshit flunkie to spend as he sees fit.

If Obama's take on it is that we need taxpayer protection and homeowner protection without golden parachutes for execs and McCain's plan is that we need corporate protection, I think even a bitterly delusional person such as yourself can see whose going to come out ahead in that fight.

He looks detached. 'If you need me, call me' is not leadership. McCain is taking risks while NObama is voting present.

'Hamas' Jenkins

09-25-2008, 08:34 PM

They just had a reporter call in and interupted Anderson Cooper's interview with Gloria Borger, Ed Rollins, and whoever the third talking head was. The reporter said the alternate proposal included mortgage insurance which she said Paulson said wouldn't work and capital gains tax proposals. She said that the meeting had just ended and that Obama was spending the night in DC because the meeting will resume at 11:30 tomorrow.

He looks detached. 'If you need me, call me' is not leadership. McCain is taking risks while NObama is voting present.

ROFL

You must be getting your talking points straight from the GOP these days. Good lord.

'Hamas' Jenkins

09-25-2008, 08:35 PM

He looks detached. 'If you need me, call me' is not leadership. McCain is taking risks while NObama is voting present.

Hey, look, it's Denisowanian.

HolmeZz

09-25-2008, 08:36 PM

They just had a reporter call in and interupted Anderson Cooper's interview with Gloria Borger, Ed Rollins, and whoever the third talking head was. The reporter said the alternate proposal included mortgage insurance which she said Paulson said wouldn't work and capital gains tax proposals. She said that the meeting had just ended and that Obama was spending the night in DC because the meeting will resume at 11:30 tomorrow.

Obama's plans to stay in DC have been known since this afternoon, r-tard.

memyselfI

09-25-2008, 08:37 PM

ROFL

You must be getting your talking points straight from the GOP these days. Good lord.

No. It's unfortunate that the DEMS have fallen for this ploy. But they have given DUHbya everything he's wanted so why stop now??? :doh!:

NewChief

09-25-2008, 08:38 PM

No. It's unfortunate that the DEMS have fallen for this ploy. But they have given DUHbya everything he's wanted so why stop now??? :doh!:

Do you even live on this planet any longer? The revised plan that is supposedly being supported by the Dems is NOT the same ****ing plan as W. wanted.

memyselfI

09-25-2008, 08:38 PM

Obama's plans to stay in DC have been known since this afternoon, r-tard.

Yesterday he wasn't planning on being there at all. Remember, he needed to debate prep.

This is another reason why this gimmick might have been a brilliant ploy. It robbed NObama two days of debate prep. :D

'Hamas' Jenkins

09-25-2008, 08:38 PM

No. It's unfortunate that the DEMS have fallen for this ploy. But they have given DUHbya everything he's wanted so why stop now??? :doh!:

If you multiplied Jettio times penchief they'd never equal the entertainment value Denise has created around here for years.

'Hamas' Jenkins

09-25-2008, 08:40 PM

Yesterday he wasn't planning on being there at all. Remember, he needed to debate prep.

This is another reason why this gimmick might have been a brilliant ploy. It robbed NObama two days of debate prep. :D

They really need a macro on this site that changes every one of her posts to "Newspeak", because that's all the horseshit is.

memyselfI

09-25-2008, 08:40 PM

Do you even live on this planet any longer? The revised plan that is supposedly being supported by the Dems is NOT the same ****ing plan as W. wanted.

Yes, I understand that but how much differentiation is known to average Joe? They see the POTUS on TV last evening trying to sell a bailout plan, the next day they see the DEMS working hard to make one happen, they see McCain fly in and it's suddenly stalled.

Not much is being said about how different the plans were from what DUHbya originally asked for. The majority of Americans not paying close attention won't know, or frankly CARE, if there is a difference. It's now the DEMS aligned with DUHbya and if the bill passes the DEMS own it.

Pottery Barn strikes again.

memyselfI

09-25-2008, 08:42 PM

If you multiplied Jettio times penchief they'd never equal the entertainment value Denise has created around here for years.

Aww, that is so sweet. :redface: :D

SBK

09-25-2008, 08:43 PM

Aww, that is so sweet. :redface: :D

It used to be me and other conservatives calling you everything under the sun, now it's the liberals turn. It's freaking hilarious. ROFL

NewChief

09-25-2008, 08:44 PM

Yes, I understand that but how much differentiation is known to average Joe? They see the POTUS on TV last evening trying to sell a bailout plan, the next day they see the DEMS working hard to make one happen, they see McCain fly in and it's suddenly stalled.

Not much is being said about how different the plans were from what DUHbya originally asked for. The majority of Americans not paying close attention won't know, or frankly CARE, if there is a difference. It's now the DEMS aligned with DUHbya and if the bill passes the DEMS own it.

Pottery Barn strikes again.

In talking to people today, most people know the difference between the Dems plan and W's. You seem to be the only person I've conversed with all day that didn't have a clue and equates the two.

memyselfI

09-25-2008, 08:45 PM

It used to be me and other conservatives calling you everything under the sun, now it's the liberals turn. It's freaking hilarious. ROFL

You know, a girl could get a complex here. :D

jiveturkey

09-25-2008, 08:45 PM

Yes, I understand that but how much differentiation is known to average Joe? They see the POTUS on TV last evening trying to sell a bailout plan, the next day they see the DEMS working hard to make one happen, they see McCain fly in and it's suddenly stalled.

Not much is being said about how different the plans were from what DUHbya originally asked for. The majority of Americans not paying close attention won't know, or frankly CARE, if there is a difference. It's now the DEMS aligned with DUHbya and if the bill passes the DEMS own it.

Pottery Barn strikes again.I agree with this but you have to take into account that McCain will drop the alternate plan, which is less regulation and capital gains tax break. This plan will get eaten alive by the main street media.

As it stands nobody wins.

ROYC75

09-25-2008, 08:45 PM

This is all too funny, the dems ands Obama are caught in a no win spin........... dems sit on their ass, Obama, Just call me if you need me shit, I'll be there in a hurry, no matter how far.... Reid, Pelosi, Oh, we are close, we will get it done ...... We don't need them here crap . Yep, the dems got it done alright. Now all the liberals and dems want to cry wolf because they sat on their ass and played partisan B S.

Sweet ......... Poetic justice

'Hamas' Jenkins

09-25-2008, 08:46 PM

Yes, I understand that but how much differentiation is known to average Joe? They see the POTUS on TV last evening trying to sell a bailout plan, the next day they see the DEMS working hard to make one happen, they see McCain fly in and it's suddenly stalled.

Not much is being said about how different the plans were from what DUHbya originally asked for. The majority of Americans not paying close attention won't know, or frankly CARE, if there is a difference. It's now the DEMS aligned with DUHbya and if the bill passes the DEMS own it.

Pottery Barn strikes again.

I don't know how stupid you have to be to not understand this, but the Democrats aren't passing this without the Republicans supporting it as well. Moreover, they let the Republicans offer with a counter proposal that is nothing but corporate whoring to the nth degree.

irishjayhawk

09-25-2008, 08:46 PM

This is all too funny, the dems ands Obama are caught in a no win spin........... dems sit on their ass, Obama, Just call me if you need me shit, I'll be there in a hurry, no matter how far.... Reid, Pelosi, Oh, we are close, we will get it done ...... We don't need them here crap . Yep, the dems got it done alright. Now all the liberals and dems want to cry wolf because they sat on their ass and played partisan B S.

Sweet ......... Poetic justice

:spock:

What partisan BS did the Democrats pull here, specifically?

memyselfI

09-25-2008, 08:46 PM

In talking to people today, most people know the difference between the Dems plan and W's. You seem to be one of the few that ignores it.

Which major CONS are out there this evening arguing the virtues of a bailout besides Paulson and Berneke?

Don't you find the sudden silence of the Republicans to be a wee bit spooky?

NewChief

09-25-2008, 08:47 PM

This is all too funny, the dems ands Obama are caught in a no win spin........... dems sit on their ass, Obama, Just call me if you need me shit, I'll be there in a hurry, no matter how far.... Reid, Pelosi, Oh, we are close, we will get it done ...... We don't need them here crap . Yep, the dems got it done alright. Now all the liberals and dems want to cry wolf because they sat on their ass and played partisan B S.

Sweet ......... Poetic justice

Take some more pills and go to bed, Roy. Seriously. You're not making sense.

memyselfI

09-25-2008, 08:48 PM

I don't know how stupid you have to be to not understand this, but the Democrats aren't passing this without the Republicans supporting it as well. Moreover, they let the Republicans offer with a counter proposal that is nothing but corporate whoring to the nth degree.

ROFLROFLROFL

Look at the position they are in. Damned if they do/damned if they don't.

'Hamas' Jenkins

09-25-2008, 08:48 PM

This is all too funny, the dems ands Obama are caught in a no win spin........... dems sit on their ass, Obama, Just call me if you need me shit, I'll be there in a hurry, no matter how far.... Reid, Pelosi, Oh, we are close, we will get it done ...... We don't need them here crap . Yep, the dems got it done alright. Now all the liberals and dems want to cry wolf because they sat on their ass and played partisan B S.

Sweet ......... Poetic justice

Roy, the Republicans could propose a counteroffer that included paying off the debt by sucking the blood from your family with a trash pump, and you'd still support it.

Mr. Laz

09-25-2008, 08:48 PM

This is all too funny, the dems ands Obama are caught in a no win spin........... dems sit on their ass, Obama, Just call me if you need me shit, I'll be there in a hurry, no matter how far.... Reid, Pelosi, Oh, we are close, we will get it done ...... We don't need them here crap . Yep, the dems got it done alright. Now all the liberals and dems want to cry wolf because they sat on their ass and played partisan B S.

Sweet ......... Poetic justice

WTF?

talk about partisan

i think you need to review the situation again

'Hamas' Jenkins

09-25-2008, 08:51 PM

ROFLROFLROFL

Look at the position they are in. Damned if they do/damned if they don't.

You don't understand how politics work. The Republicans are owned by big business. The Democrats are leased with an option to buy.

Both parties will do something to help business out because of business interests that control the country. However, the Democrats still have a shred of populism in them, because of that, they aren't passing through the Paulson/W farce, or McCain's corporate whoring counter proposal.

Neither side wants anything to be done. Pragmatically, they realize that something has to be done in order to placate an increasingly panicking public's mind, especially given that WaMu shit its pants today.

memyselfI

09-25-2008, 08:52 PM

I agree with this but you have to take into account that McCain will drop the alternate plan, which is less regulation and capital gains tax break. This plan will get eaten alive by the main street media.

As it stands nobody wins.

You know at this point, I think that any plan that doesn't cost the taxpayers directly, as this was was perceived to have done, stands a chance in hell that it wouldn't have last Thurs.

SBK

09-25-2008, 08:52 PM

Take some more pills and go to bed, Roy. Seriously. You're not making sense.

LMAO

'Hamas' Jenkins

09-25-2008, 08:55 PM

Erica Hill is so ****ing hot.

jiveturkey

09-25-2008, 08:56 PM

You know at this point, I think that any plan that doesn't cost the taxpayers directly, as this was was perceived to have done, stands a chance in hell that it wouldn't have last Thurs.Less regulation and tax breaks for Wall Street isn't going to fly any better than a bailout IMO.

BucEyedPea

09-25-2008, 08:57 PM

The Democrats are not supporting this without the Republicans on board.

Yes, I know I read the article.
FYI congress is getting calls from people 300-1 against the billionaire bailout.

memyselfI

09-25-2008, 08:58 PM

Less regulation and tax breaks for Wall Street isn't going to fly any better than a bailout IMO.

Depends on what else it's packaged with, IMO. To Buc's point, how many times have Americans called congress complaining 300-1 over tax breaks or less regulation?

ROYC75

09-25-2008, 09:01 PM

Take some more pills and go to bed, Roy. Seriously. You're not making sense.

Ya think, yesterday it was reported that they were not close, republicans didn't like the bill the dems were pushing, not giving in to certain language of the bill. McCain leaves to unify the party to get it right, Dems bash him, saying they do not need him, Basically going on record saying it will get done, without them ( Obama and McCain) there.

Obama and McCain didn't even sit in and it was still a no deal, they couldn't get a true bill agreed upon. But now they want to say it is McCains fault ? That's laughable in every way.

McCain has already gained in the polls according to Fox News since Obama turned down an equal chance to return to DC and work on this bill. The American people are not all cry baby liberals and democrats and can see that Obama dropped the chance to be equal, other words not lose anything, show that he is as much as a leader as McCain, but now, he had to try and take advantage of it and put himself first when a national crisis was at hand. This does not set well with 2/3 of the voters in America. Obama had a equal chance to look like a leader, to be presidential and he blew it.

The dems tried to run interference saying w don't need them, they are not important to this crisis, even thou they earn a paycheck from the taxpayers.

You liberal dems are not giving the American people any credit here at all. many experts claimed this could backfire against Obama and the dems .......

Guess you can't have your cake and eat it too ........ Go ahead and cry about it some more. You can't and you refuse to accept that this is going to backfire on the Obama campaign and the DNC.

Many Americans are concerned about this crap and want to make sure it gets done right ..... not just passed thru right away as the liberals,dems and Bush are pushing for .

ROYC75

09-25-2008, 09:02 PM

Roy, the Republicans could propose a counteroffer that included paying off the debt by sucking the blood from your family with a trash pump, and you'd still support it.

wrong, try again .......

ROYC75

09-25-2008, 09:04 PM

Depends on what else it's packaged with, IMO. To Buc's point, how many times have Americans called congress complaining 300-1 over tax breaks or less regulation?

True, the government shouldn't be in a position to bail the private sector of business.

Americans know this ......

banyon

09-25-2008, 09:04 PM

wrong, try again .......

Yeah, Hamas, he's got some limits, you know.

'Hamas' Jenkins

09-25-2008, 09:04 PM

Obama and McCain didn't even sit in and it was still a no deal, they couldn't get a true bill agreed upon. But now they want to say it is McCains fault ? That's laughable in every way.

It was reported that a bill was done, already in place before McCain and Obama showed up with Bush. In reality that was a lie, a lie to keep them away from any hearings. Then it was turned down before the meeting with Bush , McCain and Obama. Nothing still got done other than they asked if they could change a few things. That was rejected as well.

Americans are not wanting to bail it out .....

For the dems to claim this is all McCains fault is laughable.......

tk13

09-25-2008, 09:12 PM

Getting McCain and Obama involved in the first place just serve to cluster the whole thing and make it more about them than the bailout. Oh boy, they get to play president! Should've just held the debate and let the politicians who aren't trying to photo op for votes work out an agreement.

banyon

09-25-2008, 09:12 PM

It was reported that a bill was done, already in place before McCain and Obama showed up with Bush. In reality that was a lie, a lie to keep them away from any hearings. Then it was turned down before the meeting with Bush , McCain and Obama. Nothing still got done other than they asked if they could change a few things. That was rejected as well.

Where was it reported that a bill was done? How do you know that they lied about the bill being done? Who lied?

Cannibal

09-25-2008, 09:12 PM

The Amorphus Blob strikes again. I told you all to ignore it. You should have paid heed to my warnings.

I bet if pressed on it's stomach, Hummus would come out of her gunt like a Play Dough Fun Factory... that or maggots.

ROYC75

09-25-2008, 09:13 PM

Now I know why Roy is a Palin fan. They both talk (a lot) but make zero sense.

That's because you refuse to listen simple logic ....... most republicans and Americans are not willing to bail it out.

McCain thinks he can help ...... I still think it's impossible, but least he is willing to try, something Obama has taken a back seat approach too...... No wait, a cell phone from long distance.

This problem is deeper than Dodd,Pelosi, Reid McCain and Obama ......

Mr. Laz

09-25-2008, 09:13 PM

Getting McCain and Obama involved in the first place just serve to cluster the whole thing and make it more about them than the bailout. Oh boy, they get to play president! Should've just held the debate and let the politicians who aren't trying to photo op for votes work out an agreement.
yep

Getting McCain and Obama involved in the first place just serve to cluster the whole thing and make it more about them than the bailout. Oh boy, they get to play president! Should've just held the debate and let the politicians who aren't trying to photo op for votes work out an agreement.

Then perhaps McCain shouldn't have used this opportunity as a political stunt to return to Washington and try and play a conquering hero.

ROYC75

09-25-2008, 09:14 PM

Where was it reported that a bill was done? How do you know that they lied about the bill being done? Who lied?

Today it was reported by CNN and Fox that an agreement was in place, an hour before the Big 3 met in the WH.

InChiefsHell

09-25-2008, 09:15 PM

That's because you refuse to listen simple logic ....... most republicans and Americans are not willing to bail it out.

McCain thinks he can help ...... I still think it's impossible, but least he is willing to try, something Obama has taken a back seat approach too...... No wait, a cell phone from long distance.

This problem is deeper than Dodd,Pelosi, Reid McCain and Obama ......

Obama is a Senator who has never actually done anything in the Senate...of course he's freaked out about going to DC... he's been campaigning for over a year and a half...it's what he's best at.

banyon

09-25-2008, 09:16 PM

Today it was reported by CNN and Fox that an agreement was in place, an hour before the Big 3 met in the WH.

That's not the same thing as a "bill being done" by a long stretch.

All I heard was that they were close.

'Hamas' Jenkins

09-25-2008, 09:18 PM

Obama is a Senator who has never actually done anything in the Senate...of course he's freaked out about going to DC... he's been campaigning for over a year and a half...it's what he's best at.

That is retarded.
You are retarded.

Step away from the talking points.

Obama has sponsored 136 bills since Jan 4, 2005, 2 have become law.[2] This figure does not include bills to which Obama contributed very substantially as cosponsor, such as the Coburn-Obama Federal Funding Accountability and Transparency Act of 2006 or the Lugar-Nunn Cooperative Proliferation Detection, Interdiction Assistance, and Conventional Threat Reduction Act of 2006. They also exclude amendments to other bills, although these in the Senate are not required to be germane to the parent bill and can therefore effectively be bills in their own right.[3] Obama has co-sponsored 619 bills during the same time period.

That's because you refuse to listen simple logic ....... most republicans and Americans are not willing to bail it out.

McCain thinks he can help ...... I still think it's impossible, but least he is willing to try, something Obama has taken a back seat approach too...... No wait, a cell phone from long distance.

This problem is deeper than Dodd,Pelosi, Reid McCain and Obama ......

Heh...'logic' has no place in a roy post.

'Hamas' Jenkins

09-25-2008, 09:19 PM

McCain's counter proposal:

"The public can eat their belts, but our Lexi must have gas."

tk13

09-25-2008, 09:22 PM

Then perhaps McCain shouldn't have used this opportunity as a political stunt to return to Washington and try and play a conquering hero.
You'll get no argument from me, I'm not sure what he was thinking. Frankly I don't expect either one of them to ride in on their horse and save the economy.

'Hamas' Jenkins

09-25-2008, 09:26 PM

You'll get no argument from me, I'm not sure what he was thinking. Frankly I don't expect either one of them to ride in on their horse and save the economy.

Warren Buffet couldn't save this economy if you gave him a 3 trillion dollars looted from the Chinese. I do think that if you look at every economic indicator, the country's economy generally functions better under populist/Democratic administrations than Republican ones.

Cannibal

09-25-2008, 09:26 PM

McCain's counter proposal:

"The public can eat their belts, but our Lexi must have gas."

I'm wearin a CARDBOARD BELT!!!!

Friendo

09-25-2008, 09:28 PM

interesting stuff just now from Ed Rollins: thinks the rat-pack is intent on rebuilding the Party knowing this will be a fail-Mac is just along for the ride.

Begala: "Bush is a high functioning moron" ROFL

InChiefsHell

09-25-2008, 09:31 PM

That is retarded.
You are retarded.

Step away from the talking points.

Obama has sponsored 136 bills since Jan 4, 2005, 2 have become law.[2] This figure does not include bills to which Obama contributed very substantially as cosponsor, such as the Coburn-Obama Federal Funding Accountability and Transparency Act of 2006 or the Lugar-Nunn Cooperative Proliferation Detection, Interdiction Assistance, and Conventional Threat Reduction Act of 2006. They also exclude amendments to other bills, although these in the Senate are not required to be germane to the parent bill and can therefore effectively be bills in their own right.[3] Obama has co-sponsored 619 bills during the same time period.

Sen. Barack Obama (D-Ill.) "has missed the most votes of any Democratic presidential hopeful in the Senate over the last two months, including a vote on an Iran resolution he has blasted Sen. Hillary Clinton for supporting," CNN reported November 2, 2007.[1] Since September 2007, Obama has missed 80 percent of Senate votes.

Sheot son. I wish I could show up 20% of the time and still draw a check...

...face it. Your candidate has been nothing but that...pretty much since the speech in 2004.

Mr. Laz

09-25-2008, 09:31 PM

That is retarded.
You are retarded.

Step away from the talking points.

Obama has sponsored 136 bills since Jan 4, 2005, 2 have become law.[2] This figure does not include bills to which Obama contributed very substantially as cosponsor, such as the Coburn-Obama Federal Funding Accountability and Transparency Act of 2006 or the Lugar-Nunn Cooperative Proliferation Detection, Interdiction Assistance, and Conventional Threat Reduction Act of 2006. They also exclude amendments to other bills, although these in the Senate are not required to be germane to the parent bill and can therefore effectively be bills in their own right.[3] Obama has co-sponsored 619 bills during the same time period.

That's because you refuse to listen simple logic ....... most republicans and Americans are not willing to bail it out.

McCain thinks he can help ...... I still think it's impossible, but least he is willing to try, something Obama has taken a back seat approach too...... No wait, a cell phone from long distance.

This problem is deeper than Dodd,Pelosi, Reid McCain and Obama ......

Yes, that's why a Republican proposed the bail out.

Once again, you try to play the partisan part but condemn those who play the partisan part.

......

morphius

09-25-2008, 09:40 PM

Well, Barney, after your quote a few years ago saying that they were not facing any kind of crisis, why wouldn't we want to bring someone else in?

Cannibal

09-25-2008, 09:44 PM

Well, Barney, after your quote a few years ago saying that they were not facing any kind of crisis, why wouldn't we want to bring someone else in?

McCain's senior economic advisor just last night called this situation an "Economic 9/11". If that is the case, you'd think they'd want to get this done as quickly as possible and not try to hold out for more deregulation and tax breaks for corporations. Economic 9/11 my arse.

the Talking Can

09-25-2008, 09:45 PM

mccain is torpedoing any chance at a solution for simple, crass, personal political gain...

breathtaking

'Hamas' Jenkins

09-25-2008, 09:46 PM

I'm not retarded, but I've come to expect nothing less from your type.

mccain is torpedoing any chance at a solution for simple, crass, personal political gain...

breathtaking

it bears repeating: Rollins take was that this gang isn't doing this for Bush OR McCain--they're laying the groundwork for the future of a fragmented Party--basically they've conceded--dunno, but an interesting take.

Look at the position they are in. Damned if they do/damned if they don't.

you know less about politics than claythan knows about football

any solution to a financial problem of this magnitude has to be bipartisan...this isn't a bridge to nowhere...this is a national emergency

any half-wit would already understand that...

Mr. Laz

09-25-2008, 09:53 PM

uh-oh.
and how you gonna blame this on the Dems?

i mean i know you will .... but i'm just wondering how.

Cannibal

09-25-2008, 09:54 PM

it bears repeating: Rollins take was that this gang isn't doing this for Bush OR McCain--they're laying the groundwork for the future of a fragmented Party--basically they've conceded--dunno, but an interesting take.

My bro was saying that earlier this evening. He thinks the Republicans are going to splinter into two factions: the social conservatives vs. the economic conservatives. The social conservatives are not very happy with the economic "conservatives" right about now.

the Talking Can

09-25-2008, 09:54 PM

it bears repeating: Rollins take was that this gang isn't doing this for Bush OR McCain--they're laying the groundwork for the future of a fragmented Party--basically they've conceded--dunno, but an interesting take.

wait, explain...

he thinks there is a true splinter cell of republicans?

does that include mccain?

Mr. Laz

09-25-2008, 09:56 PM

My bro was saying that earlier this evening. He thinks the Republicans are going to splinter into two factions: the social conservatives vs. the economic conservatives. The social conservatives are not very happy with the economic "conservatives" right about now.
well that would be the biggest political change in 100 years

Friendo

09-25-2008, 09:57 PM

wait, explain...

he thinks there is a true splinter cell of republicans?

does that include mccain?

apparently not--he was adamant about how they detested him & Bush, and I thought his body language during the hearings was telling. somebody pull up some vids of Rollins tomorrow on AC360--night!

Nightfyre

09-25-2008, 09:58 PM

My bro was saying that earlier this evening. He thinks the Republicans are going to splinter into two factions: the social conservatives vs. the economic conservatives. The social conservatives are not very happy with the economic "conservatives" right about now.

the real economic conservatives aren't very happy with anybody right now.

memyselfI

09-25-2008, 10:00 PM

you know less about politics than claythan knows about football

any solution to a financial problem of this magnitude has to be bipartisan...this isn't a bridge to nowhere...this is a national emergency

any half-wit would already understand that...

I understand what is needed here. The ironic part is the average American isn't paying attention past the headlines. Thus, when they see the GOP fighting their POTUS and the DEMS on television advocating on his behalf then the details get lost.

Perception becomes reality. If the GOP is perceived as stalling this and a better alternative is adopted and that wins favor from the American people then it works. Conversely, if Wall Street blows up tomorrow they risk getting the blame for causing that to happen and the situation could end up worse and needing an even bigger fix.

At the bipartisan White House meeting that Mr. McCain had called for a day earlier, he sat silently for more than 40 minutes, more observer than leader, and then offered only a vague sense of where he stood, said people in the meeting....

...Mr. Obama might not have fared much better. He had come to Washington only reluctantly, opening himself to criticism by Republicans that he was putting his election bid ahead of the need to resolve the Wall Street crisis, and prompting concern among Democrats that his reaction to the events was simply too measured, considering the stakes.

Still, by nightfall, the day provided the younger and less experienced Mr. Obama an opportunity to, in effect, shift roles with Mr. McCain. For a moment, at least, it was Mr. Obama presenting himself as the old hand at consensus building, and as the real face of bipartisan politics.

“What I’ve found, and I think it was confirmed today, is that when you inject presidential politics into delicate negotiations, it’s not necessarily as helpful as it needs to be,” Mr. Obama told reporters Thursday evening. “Just because there is a lot of glare of the spotlight, there’s the potential for posturing or suspicions.”

“When you’re not worrying about who’s getting credit, or who’s getting blamed, then things tend to move forward a little more constructively,” he said.

the Talking Can

09-25-2008, 10:02 PM

apparently not--he was adamant about how they detested him & Bush, and I thought his body language during the hearings was telling. somebody pull up some vids of Rollins tomorrow on AC360--night!

fascinating

thanks for the tip

'Hamas' Jenkins

09-25-2008, 10:04 PM

Ummmm...80% vs 64%...

...is math a skill you learned in High School??

That's for the entire Congress, buddy. The entire 110th Congress. McCain has 110 fewer votes than a guy who had a brain tumor, and 117 fewer votes than Obama.

Cannibal

09-25-2008, 10:04 PM

the real economic conservatives aren't very happy with anybody right now.

NObama only showed up 'reluctantly' after the POTUS asked him to come. Apparently McCain asked the POTUS to ask him to come.

Like it or not, McCain is playing offense and NObama is playing defense. As would be expected since he is the political novice and front runner here.

Cannibal

09-25-2008, 10:08 PM

I understand what is needed here. The ironic part is the average American isn't paying attention past the headlines. Thus, when they see the GOP fighting their POTUS and the DEMS on television advocating on his behalf then the details get lost.

Perception becomes reality. If the GOP is perceived as stalling this and a better alternative is adopted and that wins favor from the American people then it works. Conversely, if Wall Street blows up tomorrow they risk getting the blame for causing that to happen and the situation could end up worse and needing an even bigger fix.

You're spinning. That's all you're capable of because you're bitter. If Wall Street blows up tomorrow, the Republicans who failed to act will be blamed. Spread some Hummus on Gannon's schlong and go to town.

the Talking Can

09-25-2008, 10:13 PM

Spread some Hummus on Gannon's schlong and go to town.

ROFLROFL

Nightfyre

09-25-2008, 10:13 PM

You're spinning. That's all you're capable of because you're bitter. If Wall Street blows up tomorrow, the Republicans who failed to act will be blamed. Spread some Hummus on Gannon's schlong and go to town.
Pretty much.

Nightfyre

09-25-2008, 10:18 PM

I understand what is needed here. The ironic part is the average American isn't paying attention past the headlines. Thus, when they see the GOP fighting their POTUS and the DEMS on television advocating on his behalf then the details get lost.

Perception becomes reality. If the GOP is perceived as stalling this and a better alternative is adopted and that wins favor from the American people then it works. Conversely, if Wall Street blows up tomorrow they risk getting the blame for causing that to happen and the situation could end up worse and needing an even bigger fix.

I've been trying to figure something in my head, and maybe you can help me out, yeah? When a person is insane, as you clearly are, do you know that you're insane? Maybe you're just sitting around, reading "Guns and Ammo", masturbating in your own feces, do you just stop and go, "Wow! It is amazing how ****ing crazy I really am!"? Yeah. Do you guys do that?

alnorth

09-25-2008, 10:28 PM

When was the last time a party (House GOP) revolted so defiantly against their own president? I'm honestly curious, and Watergate doesn't really count. I think you might have to go back to the history books for that.

My bro was saying that earlier this evening. He thinks the Republicans are going to splinter into two factions: the social conservatives vs. the economic conservatives. The social conservatives are not very happy with the economic "conservatives" right about now.

There is alot of truth to this statement, it's the reason for the hangup right now.
Social conservatives do not want to bail it out, it has no place in the government.

Messier

09-25-2008, 10:55 PM

NObama only showed up 'reluctantly' after the POTUS asked him to come. Apparently McCain asked the POTUS to ask him to come.

Like it or not, McCain is playing offense and NObama is playing defense. As would be expected since he is the political novice and front runner here.

Why would Obama be reluctant to come? Maybe he knew that having the two presidential nominees coming to Washington for what turned out to be a glorified photo op, was a waste of time.

What good does it do McCain to play offense when he fumbles the snap. If this is McCain on "offense" I think Obama is saying, please keep on the offensive! Don't stop!

alnorth

09-25-2008, 11:03 PM

There is alot of truth to this statement, it's the reason for the hangup right now.
Social conservatives do not want to bail it out, it has no place in the government.

I disagree. Philosophically there really is no disagreement in principle when we are not faced with utter disaster. Some of the Republicans believe this is one of those very rare times when we must be pragmatic and the government must be empowered to prevent disaster.

The other Republicans are simply in denial about the problem or are insane.

I am a bit pissed at the moment, and am withholding judgement on how McCain is handling this until I hear what he has to say. I wont blame him if the deal falls in and of itself as long as he tries to do the right thing. If he does NOT start breaking arms in the house and I start to hear him parrot the house GOP line I will be seriously f***ing un-motivated.

patteeu

09-25-2008, 11:24 PM

That is retarded.
You are retarded.

Step away from the talking points.

Obama has sponsored 136 bills since Jan 4, 2005, 2 have become law.[2] This figure does not include bills to which Obama contributed very substantially as cosponsor, such as the Coburn-Obama Federal Funding Accountability and Transparency Act of 2006 or the Lugar-Nunn Cooperative Proliferation Detection, Interdiction Assistance, and Conventional Threat Reduction Act of 2006. They also exclude amendments to other bills, although these in the Senate are not required to be germane to the parent bill and can therefore effectively be bills in their own right.[3] Obama has co-sponsored 619 bills during the same time period.

Chris Dodd and Barney Frank (two of the people responsible for this mess) aren't the two people I'd rely upon to get us out of it (or to tell the truth about what happened in the meeting today). I wouldn't rely on anything the Republicans are saying either.

Frankly, they're all acting like a bunch of children who all want to get credit for what's right.

It's stuff like this that causes governments to be overthrown.

Tomorrow will be a fun day [/sarcasm]

'Hamas' Jenkins

09-25-2008, 11:56 PM

He's batting 2 for 136 since Jan 4, 2005? Is that right?

Excellent reading comprehension...

They also exclude amendments to other bills, although these in the Senate are not required to be germane to the parent bill and can therefore effectively be bills in their own right.[3] Obama has co-sponsored 619 bills during the same time period.

'Hamas' Jenkins

09-25-2008, 11:56 PM

There is alot of truth to this statement, it's the reason for the hangup right now.
Social conservatives do not want to bail it out, it has no place in the government.

Roy, do you know the difference between a fiscal and a social conservative? Jesus, you're like one of my students who wants to pretty up their paper, so they go Shift-F7 crazy in Word, and start dumping thesaurus entries in with no knowledge of what the actual meaning of the word is.

patteeu

09-26-2008, 12:16 AM

Excellent reading comprehension...

They also exclude amendments to other bills, although these in the Senate are not required to be germane to the parent bill and can therefore effectively be bills in their own right.[3] Obama has co-sponsored 619 bills during the same time period.

That's amazing. That's a batting average of .014. He must have proposed a number of nonsensical bills that never had a chance for passage or something.

'Hamas' Jenkins

09-26-2008, 12:20 AM

That's amazing. That's a batting average of .014. He must have proposed a number of nonsensical bills that never had a chance for passage or something.

Thank you for your Donger-esque deductive reasoning skills.

Mecca

09-26-2008, 12:43 AM

Thank you for your Donger-esque deductive reasoning skills.

Donger is rubbing off on people in the forum, how nice.

SBK

09-26-2008, 12:54 AM

Donger is rubbing off on people in the forum, how nice.

Probably better than rubbing it out on people in the forum. :)

Mecca

09-26-2008, 12:59 AM

Probably better than rubbing it out on people in the forum. :)

He does that, you just weren't lookin....you better shower real quick.

SBK

09-26-2008, 01:00 AM

He does that, you just weren't lookin....you better shower real quick.

I think Claythan deserves to sit next to him from now on. He'd at least enjoy some spooge from someone other than Nik Aithein and King Carl for once I'm sure.

Mecca

09-26-2008, 01:01 AM

I think Claythan deserves to sit next to him from now on. He'd at least enjoy some spooge from someone other than Nik Aithein and King Carl for once I'm sure.

I bet Claythan would really like a guy named Donger.

SBK

09-26-2008, 01:02 AM

I bet Claythan would really like a guy named Donger.

I'm sure he would.

By the way, have you seen the SFW porn video in the pictures forum? I don't know why but I just thought of it. LMAO

Mecca

09-26-2008, 01:05 AM

I'm sure he would.

By the way, have you seen the SFW porn video in the pictures forum? I don't know why but I just thought of it. LMAO

I enjoy the basketball and accordion parts.

SBK

09-26-2008, 01:29 AM

I enjoy the basketball and accordion parts.

I was watching that and almost cried. The accordion was hilarious, and the black guy playing pinball. Heck, right at the open the 2 on the horse was freaking hilarious too.

Mecca

09-26-2008, 01:31 AM

I was watching that and almost cried. The accordion was hilarious, and the black guy playing pinball. Heck, right at the open the 2 on the horse was freaking hilarious too.

It's a good thing porn isn't really like that, no one can bust a nut while laughing.

SBK

09-26-2008, 01:33 AM

It's a good thing porn isn't really like that, no one can bust a nut while laughing.

LMAO

I forgot, the harmonica and ear of corn killed me. And the way they had the sounds line up during the porn music was funny too.

Mecca

09-26-2008, 01:43 AM

LMAO

I forgot, the harmonica and ear of corn killed me. And the way they had the sounds line up during the porn music was funny too.

Someone obviously had alot of time on their hands.

SBK

09-26-2008, 01:51 AM

I think it's an advertisement. Correct me if I'm wrong.....

Mecca

09-26-2008, 01:52 AM

I think it's an advertisement. Correct me if I'm wrong.....

I was just watching it wondering if I'd see a cut from a porn I've seen.

Isn't this part of the problem that got us into this mess? :cuss::banghead:

memyselfI

09-26-2008, 05:12 AM

I've been trying to figure something in my head, and maybe you can help me out, yeah? When a person is insane, as you clearly are, do you know that you're insane? Maybe you're just sitting around, reading "Guns and Ammo", masturbating in your own feces, do you just stop and go, "Wow! It is amazing how ****ing crazy I really am!"? Yeah. Do you guys do that?

Well, the panel on Morning Joe and Ed Rollins on CNN must all be crazy masterbaters along with me. ROFL

Nightfyre

09-26-2008, 11:02 AM

Well, the panel on Morning Joe and Ed Rollins on CNN must all be crazy masterbaters along with me. ROFL

They ARE political analysts.

BigRedChief

09-26-2008, 11:09 AM

Isn't this part of the problem that got us into this mess? :cuss::banghead:
No chit. Less oversight of Wall street greedy asswipes that got us into this mess and corporate tax breaks for big business. My god are people really this dumb?

tiptap

09-26-2008, 11:18 AM

They are looking to the next cycle and are lining up moneyed supporters for 2012. That isn't to say they won't work this cycle or that they don't hope for a change of fortune, but they don't have to compromise their positions. These are the libertarian Republicans.

alanm

09-26-2008, 12:24 PM

If the dems really wanted to pass it they could. Only they don't want their name on it alone if the whole thing goes south. As it stands the Republicans want no part of the bill.

Amnorix

09-26-2008, 12:27 PM

If the dems really wanted to pass it they could. Only they don't want their name on it alone if the whole thing goes south. As it stands the Republicans want no part of the bill.

errr....unless they can pass by 2/3rds in both houses of Congress, there is that little matter of the President's signature standing in their way.

And they can't even generate cloture in the Senate.

So stop shoveling this BS that the Democrats can single-handedly do anything. They can't.

Stinger

09-26-2008, 12:28 PM

All this talk and no one has said if Obama is in support of the current bill??? Can anyone tell me if Obama supports the current bill on the table.

mlyonsd

09-26-2008, 12:29 PM

If the dems really wanted to pass it they could. Only they don't want their name on it alone if the whole thing goes south. As it stands the Republicans want no part of the bill.

That's exactly right except when you put it like that I don't see how you get 'It's a McCain political stunt' out of it.

That's what most of the board seems to think anyway.

Stinger

09-26-2008, 12:30 PM

there is that little matter of the President's signature standing in their way.

And they can't even generate cloture in the Senate.

Wait I thought the Pres was in support of the this bailout ... not to mention that to many on this board the Prez holds no power now he is a "beyond lame duck"?

Amnorix

09-26-2008, 12:31 PM

That's exactly right except when you put it like that I don't see how you get 'It's a McCain political stunt' out of it.

That's what most of the board seems to think anyway.

Well, it's exactly right if you don't count how it's wrong.

1. can't generate cloture in Senate if the Republicans wish to block it.

2. can't turn it into a law without the PResident's vote, as they can't generate 2/3rds in both houses.

So yeah, except for the fact that they can't do it, they could do it!

Amnorix

09-26-2008, 12:32 PM

Wait I thought the Pres was in support of the this bailout ... not to mention that to many on this board the Prez holds no power now he is a "beyond lame duck"?

He may be beyond lame duck, but he still has what the Constitution gave him.

Nor is it my understanding that Bush will sign something that the Congressional Republicans reject.

I dont', btw, disagree that the Democrats would prefer some political cover if the bailout goes to hell. Unfortuntely, that is politics as usual for both sides.

triple

09-26-2008, 12:42 PM

good. they ought to just let them go under.

mlyonsd

09-26-2008, 12:50 PM

Well, it's exactly right if you don't count how it's wrong.

1. can't generate cloture in Senate if the Republicans wish to block it.

2. can't turn it into a law without the PResident's vote, as they can't generate 2/3rds in both houses.

So yeah, except for the fact that they can't do it, they could do it!

I was more speaking from the cover the dems are trying to find by making sure a majority of republicans vote for the bailout.

Pelosi told members of her caucus on Tuesday that there would be no vote on the bailout without “a majority of the minority.”
http://thehill.com/leading-the-news/pelosi-boehner-paulson-meet-on-bailout-2008-09-24.html

They're looking for someone to hide behind if the thing goes south as alanm pointed out.

To your points, how do you know they can't get Senate cloture, and I think Bush has already agreed to principle on it.

SBK

09-26-2008, 03:23 PM

I was more speaking from the cover the dems are trying to find by making sure a majority of republicans vote for the bailout.

They're looking for someone to hide behind if the thing goes south as alanm pointed out.

To your points, how do you know they can't get Senate cloture, and I think Bush has already agreed to principle on it.

The only people opposing it are a few house Republicans. This will fly through the Senate and Bush will do what he does when he gets a huge spending bill on his desk, sign away.

If this bill were such a good thing for America the Dems would run to take all the credit for saving the world while the Republicans sat on their hands....

patteeu

09-26-2008, 04:21 PM

He may be beyond lame duck, but he still has what the Constitution gave him.

Nor is it my understanding that Bush will sign something that the Congressional Republicans reject.

I dont', btw, disagree that the Democrats would prefer some political cover if the bailout goes to hell. Unfortuntely, that is politics as usual for both sides.

I don't think there's any indication that Senate Republicans want to filibuster this bailout nor that there's reason to believe that President Bush would veto it. The opposition seems to be coming primarily from house Republicans and a very small number of Senate conservatives.

alanm

09-26-2008, 10:22 PM

All this talk and no one has said if Obama is in support of the current bill??? Can anyone tell me if Obama supports the current bill on the table.
He voted present. ;)

banyon

09-27-2008, 09:06 AM

All this talk and no one has said if Obama is in support of the current bill??? Can anyone tell me if Obama supports the current bill on the table.