Former Cult Member: ‘Barbara Bouchey, get on with your life– there was no good in Nxivm’

Barbara, you are still drinking the Kool-Aid and if you think there is a widget of good in NXIVM tech, most of which is plagiarized from Scientology, you are delusional.

One hopes you do not attempt to resurrect any of it in any form.

Sadly, I think you, or some other member might. I say this from experience in the cult I was in. The many incarnations from former cast-off members exists to this day.

On the balance sheet of life, NXIVM totals out to be a negative.

Surely you know “good will” appears on every corporate accounting sheet. It has a numerical figure.

What price would you place on NXIVM’s good will?

I put it at zero.

I believe many were right on their analysis of your interview with Megyn Kelly. You are still in love with Keith, thus you think to find some justification for having parts of NXIVM live on.

As for Nancy, one looks at the sum total of her life. Were one to weigh her heart against a feather, the feather wins.

Why you persist in defending any part of NXIVM boggles the mind. I don’t go around touting any part of the cult I was in. Why? Because the damage done to good people, the lies, far outweighs the minute good, if there is any.

I understand you were used by the group, seduced by Keith, lost monetarily, and I have sympathy for that.

But for me not to challenge your protestations that some good can still be got from NXIVM tech… nope, I won’t let that stand without rebuttal.

My unasked for advice is that you put this behind you, place a period on that part of your life, and get on with living.

I totally disagree with “g.” There is a small amount of good in any cult, otherwise it wouldn’t attract people. The problem is “g” has been so damaged by the unnamed cult she was in that she can’t think straight.

I agree that NXIVM must have had some good points, otherwise they would not have been able to attract customers. Most people who took the courses were unaware of any illegal activity – the negative aspects were hidden.

Nice guy, why are you fear mongering?

“Once the trial heats up, people will want to take their moral “outrage” on any of the Nxivm defendants or any public person defending the good Nxivm did.”

I didn’t say you changed your name. Why are you responding to my comment and directing it towards niceguy? niceguy doesn’t realize people won’t care “Once the trial heats up….” just like they haven’t cared for decades.

Self empowerment doesn’t make it good. These people never did any peace building, helped the poor, or invented a useful thing. It was just mind games and brainwashing that feels good for a few months. Now those weak individuals are worse off than before.

I’d agree with that point, based on what I have seen of many other, similar groups. The effective bait in the trap is typically taken from some other source, but it’s still something that works.

Also, people may benefit from the comaraderie of being with other similarly well-intended people seeking to improve themselves and contribute to the world. High control groups or cults exploit that, but it’s still a genuine dynamic at work.

Yes, it fails to understand the key mechanism of how such groups actually attract people, and then keep them in.

It’s also critical to acknowledged as part of any effort to get people out. People aren’t persuaded by being told they haven’t experienced, what they have experienced or at least firmly believe they have, just as Catherine Oxenberg didn’t have any success trying to just tell her daughter that she had been “brainwashed.”

Former deprogrammer Steve Hassan, an ex-Moonie who continues to work in the field with a more refined approach, does a good job in his most recent works of explaining the nuances of such mechanisms and, most importantly, the most successful approaches for influencing group members to question and end their adherence.

I’m mostly commenting because I’m astonished that I simultaneously agree with both Scott and Flowers.

Yes – There was some good in NXIVM courses. It wouldn’t have worked if there wasn’t. MUCH more bad than good, but why does everyone seem to be caught up on trying to get ex-members to say that there was no good? It’s a minor common sense detail that doesn’t deserve the run it’s getting.

Echoing G, I would add that a sociopath makes a formidable enemy to even the most intelligent people. My sense is that Barbara has not truly acknowledged to herself that as an educated, bright woman she was manipulated, deceived, and defrauded hook, line and sinker for years. It’s a tough admission to make. However, rationalizing such an injustice into the positives just perpetuates the injustice and delays healing. Barbara, process your victimization, and help with anything to send the guy to jail for life. The best good you can do is to dedicate yourself to helping others avoid the same experience. You’re so close.

Nobody is “…rationalizing such an injustice into the positives,” the point is there is both good and bad parts of NXIVM, and any organization, for that matter. The difference is the proportion of good vs. bad. NXIVM was VERY bad. The Feds apparently aren’t interested in Barb’s “help,” because they know she’s damaged goods. Barb is nowhere near the point of helping others avoid the same experience and is the last person who should be involved in such an activity.

NXIVM was the structure, the “platform” used to bilk, defraud and deceive. It did not undertake any charitable or compassionate activities, to my knowledge. (A food drive? A major donation? A scholarship? Oh, wait – a ten day birthday party / orgy for the Master!) We are led to believe it did not even pay taxes. As far as we know, it did not lead people to success in any form, with the possible exception of raising money for those at the top.

CBI was the same. So…some people saved enough on appliances and electronics to offset their exorbitant monthly membership fees. They could have found other avenues for savings and skipped the membership fees, which only enriched KAR and Company.

So someone please tell me, what were the good parts? That some people enjoyed some of the “courses”? Not worth preserving, then. I am ALL EARS if anyone has examples of “good” they would like to share.

It does sadden me that anyone is talking about resurrecting any part of this stinking, filthy counterfeit scheme. I