Nothing in the article says Wells Fargo was doing anything worse than throwing out deadbeats. It is consistent with the bank acting on primarily based on MERS records and checking paperwork only when paperwork is requested. The big banks can afford lawyers who know better than to create an actually incriminating document, as opposed to one that reporters can imagine is incriminating.

I have mentioned before some corporate antitrust training I had to go through. It taught us how to avoid creating evidence that would look bad in court. It had nothing to do with avoiding antitrust violations. Any anticompetitive policies were defined and implemented by top management, not ordinary cubicle occupants. I'm sure there is a similar division in Wells Fargo. You have the people who decide whether the company is evil, and you have other people who make sure all the paperwork describes a company that stays on the right side of the law.

ZAZ:Nothing in the article says Wells Fargo was doing anything worse than throwing out deadbeats. It is consistent with the bank acting on primarily based on MERS records and checking paperwork only when paperwork is requested. The big banks can afford lawyers who know better than to create an actually incriminating document, as opposed to one that reporters can imagine is incriminating.

I have mentioned before some corporate antitrust training I had to go through. It taught us how to avoid creating evidence that would look bad in court. It had nothing to do with avoiding antitrust violations. Any anticompetitive policies were defined and implemented by top management, not ordinary cubicle occupants. I'm sure there is a similar division in Wells Fargo. You have the people who decide whether the company is evil, and you have other people who make sure all the paperwork describes a company that stays on the right side of the law.

ZAZ:Nothing in the article says Wells Fargo was doing anything worse than throwing out deadbeats. It is consistent with the bank acting on primarily based on MERS records and checking paperwork only when paperwork is requested. The big banks can afford lawyers who know better than to create an actually incriminating document, as opposed to one that reporters can imagine is incriminating.

I have mentioned before some corporate antitrust training I had to go through. It taught us how to avoid creating evidence that would look bad in court. It had nothing to do with avoiding antitrust violations. Any anticompetitive policies were defined and implemented by top management, not ordinary cubicle occupants. I'm sure there is a similar division in Wells Fargo. You have the people who decide whether the company is evil, and you have other people who make sure all the paperwork describes a company that stays on the right side of the law.

Don;t be so Sure. There is a reason that Well et al cut that $25 billion settlement check to the State attorneys general over this behavior. And I have no doubt that Wells will seek dismissal of this suit precisely on the grounds that they settlement check covered this naughtiness as well.

Having title vested in MERS itself was a violation of the law in nearly every state it was used in

How is it even allowed for a bank to just toss people out of their homes without even showing the Sheriff that they own the damn place at least? I know that the legal system is grossly biased and flawed, but COME THE F*CK ON!!!!

ZAZ:Nothing in the article says Wells Fargo was doing anything worse than throwing out deadbeats. It is consistent with the bank acting on primarily based on MERS records and checking paperwork only when paperwork is requested. The big banks can afford lawyers who know better than to create an actually incriminating document, as opposed to one that reporters can imagine is incriminating.

I have mentioned before some corporate antitrust training I had to go through. It taught us how to avoid creating evidence that would look bad in court. It had nothing to do with avoiding antitrust violations. Any anticompetitive policies were defined and implemented by top management, not ordinary cubicle occupants. I'm sure there is a similar division in Wells Fargo. You have the people who decide whether the company is evil, and you have other people who make sure all the paperwork describes a company that stays on the right side of the law.

TV's Vinnie:How is it even allowed for a bank to just toss people out of their homes without even showing the Sheriff that they own the damn place at least? I know that the legal system is grossly biased and flawed, but COME THE F*CK ON!!!!

ecmoRandomNumbers:ZAZ: Nothing in the article says Wells Fargo was doing anything worse than throwing out deadbeats. It is consistent with the bank acting on primarily based on MERS records and checking paperwork only when paperwork is requested. The big banks can afford lawyers who know better than to create an actually incriminating document, as opposed to one that reporters can imagine is incriminating.

I have mentioned before some corporate antitrust training I had to go through. It taught us how to avoid creating evidence that would look bad in court. It had nothing to do with avoiding antitrust violations. Any anticompetitive policies were defined and implemented by top management, not ordinary cubicle occupants. I'm sure there is a similar division in Wells Fargo. You have the people who decide whether the company is evil, and you have other people who make sure all the paperwork describes a company that stays on the right side of the law.

I can't tell you how much faith in the system that gives me.

You shouldn't have any faith in the system. It's all just a big con from start to finish.

ZAZ:I have mentioned before some corporate antitrust training I had to go through. It taught us how to avoid creating evidence that would look bad in court. It had nothing to do with avoiding antitrust violations. Any anticompetitive policies were defined and implemented by top management, not ordinary cubicle occupants. I'm sure there is a similar division in Wells Fargo. You have the people who decide whether the company is evil, and you have other people who make sure all the paperwork describes a company that stays on the right side of the law.

Zaz, there is no point size or level of boldness that allows me to express the word "bullshiat" with the proper level of emphasis.

Many, many, many people were thrown out of their homes in an illegal way and, if they were lucky, were only paid back a few pennies on the dollar. The fact that it was done under the guise of a corporation and "for the shareholders" doesn't excuse that fact. And, to further emphasize the above point, the belief that they didn't cover their their tracks because of "training" and not because they knew something was underhanded is plain, unadulterated, 100%, pure-d BULLshiat. Everyone from the CEO to the mail clerk is complicit, and the guys in the top levels should be in jail. The fact that they aren't right now shows how much the banks own our governmental process right now.

Maybe they thought it was a Wachovia mortgage. Remember when they bought Wachovia for $12b after we gave them $50b in TARP funds? Oh man, that was awesome. Instead of "TARP funds" we should have called it "TARP FUN!"

Thank god the people behind this has all been prosecuted and jailed. The restitution has been appropriate and timely. Also that regulations have been put in place to prevent this from ever happening again.

TV's Vinnie:How is it even allowed for a bank to just toss people out of their homes without even showing the Sheriff that they own the damn place at least? I know that the legal system is grossly biased and flawed, but COME THE F*CK ON!!!!

The Sheriff isn't even involved, when my neighbor did a walk away, the Sheriff never showed up. One Saturday a bank representative inspected the property, knocked on my door to inform me the adjoining unit was in foreclosure (I live in a townhome) and to please call if their were any issues. The following Monday a clean up crew showed up as I was leaving for work. By the time I got home the place was cleaned out and even the bushes had been trimmed. Never once saw a Sheriff's Deputy.

/Did have to call them as the landscape crew cut the phone lines with their hedge trimmer and AT&T wanted someone to pay for the service call. The bank paid I guess AT&T never billed me.

Magorn:Don;t be so Sure. There is a reason that Well et al cut that $25 billion settlement check to the State attorneys general over this behavior. And I have no doubt that Wells will seek dismissal of this suit precisely on the grounds that they settlement check covered this naughtiness as well.

Pennies on the dollar. No one even NEAR to being made whole. Corporate larceny done right under the nose of politicians paid off by campaign cash. And, to top it all off, the CEOs that so many people worship are Millionaires because of the cash that was made off came from corporate stealing. And so many people shrug and say "it's only business" and continue to call these criminals "smart" on CNBC.

ZAZ:Nothing in the article says Wells Fargo was doing anything worse than throwing out deadbeats. It is consistent with the bank acting on primarily based on MERS records and checking paperwork only when paperwork is requested. The big banks can afford lawyers who know better than to create an actually incriminating document, as opposed to one that reporters can imagine is incriminating.

I have mentioned before some corporate antitrust training I had to go through. It taught us how to avoid creating evidence that would look bad in court. It had nothing to do with avoiding antitrust violations. Any anticompetitive policies were defined and implemented by top management, not ordinary cubicle occupants. I'm sure there is a similar division in Wells Fargo. You have the people who decide whether the company is evil, and you have other people who make sure all the paperwork describes a company that stays on the right side of the law.

Way to inform that you are very much one of those people that are part of the problem.

The Sheriff isn't even involved, when my neighbor did a walk away, the Sheriff never showed up. One Saturday a bank representative inspected the property, knocked on my door to inform me the adjoining unit was in foreclosure (I live in a townhome) and to please call if their were any issues. The following Monday a clean up crew showed up as I was leaving for work. By the time I got home the place was cleaned out and even the bushes had been trimmed. Never once saw a Sheriff's Deputy.

My mother runs into situations like ZAZ is in. She's a government accountant. People will ask questions about government accounting and she'll tell them all about the procedures and best practices and reasoning. Then they'll act all shocked and ask her how she can sleep at night. She says "I don't do that stuff. It's evil. I'm not saying it's morally defensible; I was answering your question."

ZAZ:Nothing in the article says Wells Fargo was doing anything worse than throwing out deadbeats. It is consistent with the bank acting on primarily based on MERS records and checking paperwork only when paperwork is requested. The big banks can afford lawyers who know better than to create an actually incriminating document, as opposed to one that reporters can imagine is incriminating.

I have mentioned before some corporate antitrust training I had to go through. It taught us how to avoid creating evidence that would look bad in court. It had nothing to do with avoiding antitrust violations. Any anticompetitive policies were defined and implemented by top management, not ordinary cubicle occupants. I'm sure there is a similar division in Wells Fargo. You have the people who decide whether the company is evil, and you have other people who make sure all the paperwork describes a company that stays on the right side of the law.

ZAZ:Nothing in the article says Wells Fargo was doing anything worse than throwing out deadbeats. It is consistent with the bank acting on primarily based on MERS records and checking paperwork only when paperwork is requested. The big banks can afford lawyers who know better than to create an actually incriminating document, as opposed to one that reporters can imagine is incriminating.

I have mentioned before some corporate antitrust training I had to go through. It taught us how to avoid creating evidence that would look bad in court. It had nothing to do with avoiding antitrust violations. Any anticompetitive policies were defined and implemented by top management, not ordinary cubicle occupants. I'm sure there is a similar division in Wells Fargo. You have the people who decide whether the company is evil, and you have other people who make sure all the paperwork describes a company that stays on the right side of the law.

We know how the system is supposed to work. But suppose to and does are different.

Wangiss:My mother runs into situations like ZAZ is in. She's a government accountant. People will ask questions about government accounting and she'll tell them all about the procedures and best practices and reasoning. Then they'll act all shocked and ask her how she can sleep at night. She says "I don't do that stuff. It's evil. I'm not saying it's morally defensible; I was answering your question."

Every machine needs cogs to function. If you're not part of the problem ...

The Sheriff isn't even involved, when my neighbor did a walk away, the Sheriff never showed up. One Saturday a bank representative inspected the property, knocked on my door to inform me the adjoining unit was in foreclosure (I live in a townhome) and to please call if their were any issues. The following Monday a clean up crew showed up as I was leaving for work. By the time I got home the place was cleaned out and even the bushes had been trimmed. Never once saw a Sheriff's Deputy.

(this propaganda post paid for the by Wells Fargo)

Nope local bank, which is probably why I had no issues when their idiot landscapers cut my phone line. I was just trying to point out the Sheriff doesn't even show up. Their have been about a dozen foreclosures in this neighborhood and only once was there paperwork from the Sheriff posted on someones door.

AngryDragon:Thank god the people behind this has all been prosecuted and jailed. The restitution has been appropriate and timely. Also that regulations have been put in place to prevent this from ever happening again.

Oh wait....

And ZAZ's reassurances aside, I totally believe Wells Fargo can and would do this, and did, and that whether they were kicking out "deadbeats" or not, they still have to do it legally.

ZAZ:Nothing in the article says Wells Fargo was doing anything worse than throwing out deadbeats. It is consistent with the bank acting on primarily based on MERS records and checking paperwork only when paperwork is requested. The big banks can afford lawyers who know better than to create an actually incriminating document, as opposed to one that reporters can imagine is incriminating.

I have mentioned before some corporate antitrust training I had to go through. It taught us how to avoid creating evidence that would look bad in court. It had nothing to do with avoiding antitrust violations. Any anticompetitive policies were defined and implemented by top management, not ordinary cubicle occupants. I'm sure there is a similar division in Wells Fargo. You have the people who decide whether the company is evil, and you have other people who make sure all the paperwork describes a company that stays on the right side of the law.

Agree. Large corporations, especially banks, are evil as fark.

/tl;dr//just assuming that's what you wrote since it's common knowledge.

The article's content doesn't even justify its own headline, let alone subby's. This is nothing more than Wells Fargo documenting a method of preventing delinquent homeowners from avoiding foreclosure via a legal loophole.

AngryDragon:Thank god the people behind this has all been prosecuted and jailed. The restitution has been appropriate and timely. Also that regulations have been put in place to prevent this from ever happening again.

I might have a smidgeon of sympathy for the banks if they weren't routinely foreclosing on properties they don't own or have any legal title to. Their shenanigans have cost them any goodwill I might have had. Fark 'em. If they can't get their shiat together then the mortgage should be declared defunct and the current owner given full title clear and free. Attempts to create paperwork retroactively should be regarded as fraud and dealt with accordingly. Those who've been the victim of this sort of bullshiat should be compensated accordingly.

AngryDragon:Thank god the people behind this has all been prosecuted and jailed. The restitution has been appropriate and timely. Also that regulations have been put in place to prevent this from ever happening again.

ZAZ:Nothing in the article says Wells Fargo was doing anything worse than throwing out deadbeats. It is consistent with the bank acting on primarily based on MERS records and checking paperwork only when paperwork is requested. The big banks can afford lawyers who know better than to create an actually incriminating document, as opposed to one that reporters can imagine is incriminating.

Yeah, notably missing from this whole mess are substantial cases of innocents being foreclosed on. To date I'm aware of only one case that has stood up to scrutiny and that involved a failure to stop the foreclosure after a short sale rather than an errant foreclosure. Everything else I've seen has either been notifications to people other than the one being foreclosed on or address errors by the cleanout companies. Keeping focusing on making the banks jump through hoops does nothing about the cleanout companies.

Marcus Aurelius:If you don't have a mortgage, then there's nothing to worry about.

Oh? Article #1--it's about paperwork. #2--paperwork. #3--ok, another failed to stop. She came up with the money at the last instant, the process didn't get stopped. #4--they weren't actually paying although it was supposedly some sort of paperwork problem. #5--wrong address by the cleanout guys--the very problem I'm saying is the actual issue here.

Prophet of Loss:Wangiss: My mother runs into situations like ZAZ is in. She's a government accountant. People will ask questions about government accounting and she'll tell them all about the procedures and best practices and reasoning. Then they'll act all shocked and ask her how she can sleep at night. She says "I don't do that stuff. It's evil. I'm not saying it's morally defensible; I was answering your question."

Every machine needs cogs to function. If you're not part of the problem ...

/Befehl ist Befehl!

Gumming up the works from the inside seems like a noble effort to me. She got fired for categorizing things correctly. Oh well.

d23:Pennies on the dollar. No one even NEAR to being made whole. Corporate larceny done right under the nose of politicians paid off by campaign cash. And, to top it all off, the CEOs that so many people worship are Millionaires because of the cash that was made off came from corporate stealing. And so many people shrug and say "it's only business" and continue to call these criminals "smart" on CNBC.

According to court papers, the Manual details "a procedure for processing [mortgage] notes without endorsements and obtaining endorsements and allonges."

A Wells Fargo spokesman denied that the manual could be used to order improper documents. "No note is endorsed without the proper authority," he said. "Wells Fargo's foreclosure processes-today and back in 2012-are legal [and] appropriate."

I live next door to a forclosure like Tom Slick and one day someone just showed up to turn off the water, electricity and gas and change the locks, no notice or sheriff just a guy in a pickup truck with a couple of stickers for the electric service and front door. I am sure something was done at the courthouse, but since the house was already empty (it had been a rental) there was no fuss or stuff left at the curb.

MechaPyx I might have a smidgeon of sympathy for the banks if they weren't routinely foreclosing on properties they don't own or have any legal title to. Their shenanigans have cost them any goodwill I might have had. Fark 'em. If they can't get their shiat together then the mortgage should be declared defunct and the current owner given full title clear and free. Attempts to create paperwork retroactively should be regarded as fraud and dealt with accordingly. Those who've been the victim of this sort of bullshiat should be compensated accordingly.

if "would"s and "should"s were candy and nuts, we'd all have a very merry christmas

Doesn't surprise me. I used to work near one of Wells Fargo's really large offices in Wisconsin and based on the way those people act in real life (example: Driving like complete idiots when leaving / coming into work and standing in the middle of the road so they can smoke cigs and NOT move for roadway traffic) This sort of behavior from them is no shock and proves these people are a$$hats both publicly and professionally. What some lowlifes.