Whaddya mean Greg? JR loves ex-Raiders like Myers and Murphy! Maybe now he will bring back McCants and give him a shot since he has "proven" himself in that winning atmosphere in Oakland :-) !!! JUST WIN BABY!

their pass protection scheme. Maybe they can work with him in regards to what they do, as opposed to what we do. Maybe it's easier in their system due to a QB who can rush the ball. So basically run blocking more as opposed to the BOB 7 step concepts we run here.

So it all depends. That's why I love football. Someone may not fit our scheme but take a Ryan Grant and stick in a ZBS and you get good production.

was terrible while he was here, but that was mostly at LT IIRC. He also came out of a small school, UAB. But it would be ironic if we, with all our OL problems, let go a promising O lineman because we were playing him at the wrong position.

Yes he hates rookies like Pugh this year, Hill last year, Ross, Smith, Bradshaw, Alford in 2007, KP in 2008, Eli, Snee and Gibril Wilson in 2004, Phillips, TT an Manningham in 2008, Matt Dodge in 2010 (OOPS!). I could go on. Sometimes rookies don't play because they aren't ready to play. And when you are expected to contend you don't force feed them. If you want to see rookies play before their time find a perennial non contender like the Jaguars to watch.

isn't that vast so if he showed anything at one position then he would have been kept. Basically, he was one of the guys cut because of a numbers game since the team needed to keep extra RB's (brown's injury) and QB's (Nassib) plus his own play. He didn't outperform Brewer, Mosley or Diehl and Cordle was needed as interior line insurance.

was apparently BPA for the Giants as well, but they were concerned about his conditioning and weight. Many teams had similar concerns. The problem was taking Wilson, a RB. Trading down and getting Osemele would have been a better option.

Two wasted spaces. Somebody had to be let go. In this case, it was McCants.

Giants really have to get better at learning when to cut bait on old, injured players. The restructures given to Baas and Snee were absurd. I'm a big fan of Reese. But he was willfully blind with some veterans making big money.

There may have been nepotism involved with Snee. But the GM has to step up and do what he thinks is right. Coughlin might not have liked it but he would have accepted it. Mara also has to take a hit for not intervening.

was apparently BPA for the Giants as well, but they were concerned about his conditioning and weight. Many teams had similar concerns. The problem was taking Wilson, a RB. Trading down and getting Osemele would have been a better option.

and he was BAD- almost comical at time (except it wasn't funny because he was gonna get someone killed). that he's starting in Oakland is more a credit to his getting it together than it is a knock on the coaching staff for thinking he never would...

What are you talking about...?the OL has solid until late last year. The Giants have taken mid-round to late round draft picks and turned them into contributors. No one is going to say the last two years have been good, but you can't fault to coaches for Snee breaking down and Baas always being on IR. Not exactly how they planned it. Sure they need to reinvest in youth on the OL, no one argues that, but no one predicted the OL was going to impload all at the same time. McCants was hardly worth keeping around, he would get destroyed in 4th quarter preseason games. When he was here he was terrible. Can't fault the coaches for parting ways.

guess draft shit all day long every year for every team - or even not second guess, but have a player you preferred who has done well.

that being said, 2012 wasn't the issue for the Giants. It was 2011.

The Patriots were not supposed to sit at #17. That's classic Pats trade down spot. If the Pats traded down like most of the planet expected them to, the Giants have Nate Solder and the OL has a much different complexion.

And this isn't a knock on Prince, but the Giants should have landed Nate Solder in that draft.

What are you talking about...?the OL has solid until late last year. The Giants have taken mid-round to late round draft picks and turned them into contributors. No one is going to say the last two years have been good, but you can't fault to coaches for Snee breaking down and Baas always being on IR. Not exactly how they planned it. Sure they need to reinvest in youth on the OL, no one argues that, but no one predicted the OL was going to impload all at the same time. McCants was hardly worth keeping around, he would get destroyed in 4th quarter preseason games. When he was here he was terrible. Can't fault the coaches for parting ways.

Giants really have to get better at learning when to cut bait on old, injured players. The restructures given to Baas and Snee were absurd. I'm a big fan of Reese. But he was willfully blind with some veterans making big money.

i have long had this complaint about this regime. i dont know if its a willful blindness due to loyalty or poor valuation, but this needs to end. the highest paid players on this team outside of eli are snee, baas, tuck, webster and rolle. only rolle should have been brought back this year.

Cordle - UDFA currently staring and holding his own. Say what you want, but at least he can get on the field, unlike Baas.

David Diehl - drafted in the 5th round, on the downside but has been a valuable member of two championship lines

Rich Seubert - UDFA, really came on under the Coughlin coaching staff

Adam Koets 5th rd - Was progressing until he got hurt.

What I find funny is the fan perspective is if the Giants draft a late round lineman or pick one up via rookie FA, at he becomes a player then that shows good coaching, but when the Giants draft OL in the top 3 rounds, and the player pans out, then that is not a sign of good coaching and development as much as the talent of the player. How do we know the coaching staff hasn't had a significant hand in developing Beatty (who had question marks coming out of UCONN), Snee (turned into an All-pro), and now Pugh who is turning in a fine rookie season. Just not fair to criticize the coaches because McCants got cut, Brewer is still not cracking the lin-up, and Snee/Baas are breaking down.

Cordle - UDFA currently staring and holding his own. Say what you want, but at least he can get on the field, unlike Baas.

David Diehl - drafted in the 5th round, on the downside but has been a valuable member of two championship lines

Rich Seubert - UDFA, really came on under the Coughlin coaching staff

Adam Koets 5th rd - Was progressing until he got hurt.

What I find funny is the fan perspective is if the Giants draft a late round lineman or pick one up via rookie FA, at he becomes a player then that shows good coaching, but when the Giants draft OL in the top 3 rounds, and the player pans out, then that is not a sign of good coaching and development as much as the talent of the player. How do we know the coaching staff hasn't had a significant hand in developing Beatty (who had question marks coming out of UCONN), Snee (turned into an All-pro), and now Pugh who is turning in a fine rookie season. Just not fair to criticize the coaches because McCants got cut, Brewer is still not cracking the lin-up, and Snee/Baas are breaking down.

So again...who have we really developed on the OL that is a top 10 OL in his position or an above average OL in the NFL?

2007 - Zero drafted - FA Boothe was signed from Oak who started 16 games as a rookie for them. Is an average player at best and is probably our most consistent OL.

2008 - Zero drafted or FA stuck on the team.

2009 - Beatty - as a 2nd round pick is a below average LT in the NFL. He really hasn't lived up to or developed into a top notch LT.
No FA

2010 - Mitch Petrus - 5th rounder - remember this gem?

FA - Cordle - PS squad guy who is has somehow found a way to stick on the roster after all the injuries. Cordle hasn't developed in 3 plus season and is a far below average Center in the NFL.

2011 - Brewer - 4th round. still collecting a pay check even with all of the injuries. Has he developed?
No FA

2012 - McCants - 6th round - Gmen coaching staff couldn't get anything out of him, but yet has started 3 games for Oak and held his own. To me this raises some flags...

Mosley - 4th round - still a work in progress, but if he can't crack this lineup then that speaks volumes.

2013- Pugh 1st round- I think he's an average RT right now, but I think if he hits the weight room he's got the talent to an above average RT for a long time.

Herman - 7th round - I think he's a PS player and will have a long road to make the 53 man roster.

As far as Snee goes the guy was a first round talent who was going to be a Pro Bowl player regardless who his position coach was. Koets? common man on man...please.

Considering that McCants is starting for the Raiders, and that Guy Whimper is still in the league, I have been thinking about this a lot lately.

What OLs have they developed since Diehl, who has been here for his whole career and is done, and Seubert who is now long gone?

Beatty the mediocrity and Raider cast-off Boothe are the only others that have started except in emergencies.

I have been somewhat of a Cordle defender, but it is clear that despite being a veteran, the former OFA STILL lacks the strength and skills to be an every day player. (Note that Boothe and Diehl are making the line calls instead of him.)

There is a long string of flops from those mid and later round picks including Drew Strogny (2004 D7), Koets (2007 D6 who never amounted to anything more than a uniform filler), Petrus (2010 D5), Brewer (2011 D4), and McCants (2012 D6). The jury is still out on Mosley and 2013 D6 Herman. They haven't had a hit on any of these mid and later round OL picks since Diehl was drafted many years ago.

On the FA side, there are far, far too many to list, but they include journeymen like ex-Bear Chris White, ex-Redskin Selvish Capers, ex-Browns camper Bryant Browing, ex-Bill Michael Jasper, Ike Ndukwe, James Meredith, and current PS player Stephen Goodin who was an NYG OFA.

Now is this normal? Well, sort of. Any team is going to do cattle calls for OLs and most of them won't make it.

The GIANTS problem is that almost none of them have made it in the last half dozen years, and almost none isn't good enough.

Something is wrong and must be fixed or this team is doomed to last place.

Considering that McCants is starting for the Raiders, and that Guy Whimper is still in the league, I have been thinking about this a lot lately.

What OLs have they developed since Diehl, who has been here for his whole career and is done, and Seubert who is now long gone?

Beatty the mediocrity and Raider cast-off Boothe are the only others that have started except in emergencies.

I have been somewhat of a Cordle defender, but it is clear that despite being a veteran, the former OFA STILL lacks the strength and skills to be an every day player. (Note that Boothe and Diehl are making the line calls instead of him.)

There is a long string of flops from those mid and later round picks including Drew Strogny (2004 D7), Koets (2007 D6 who never amounted to anything more than a uniform filler), Petrus (2010 D5), Brewer (2011 D4), and McCants (2012 D6). The jury is still out on Mosley and 2013 D6 Herman. They haven't had a hit on any of these mid and later round OL picks since Diehl was drafted many years ago.

On the FA side, there are far, far too many to list, but they include journeymen like ex-Bear Chris White, ex-Redskin Selvish Capers, ex-Browns camper Bryant Browing, ex-Bill Michael Jasper, Ike Ndukwe, James Meredith, and current PS player Stephen Goodin who was an NYG OFA.

Now is this normal? Well, sort of. Any team is going to do cattle calls for OLs and most of them won't make it.

The GIANTS problem is that almost none of them have made it in the last half dozen years, and almost none isn't good enough.

Something is wrong and must be fixed or this team is doomed to last place.

Did the Raiders develop him in 8 weeks? Maybe he is having a few good games. Maybe the proverbial "light" came on. Maybe unemployment made him motivated. But to say the Raders developed him in 8 weeks is too much.

TTH I'm certainly not making a big deal about McCants. I was just simply pointing out and feel that something is wrong in the Giants process/thinking in regards to our OL. When you have a guy you release go play for another team and he doesn't embarrass himself, yet, we can't get out of our own way on the OL then it just begs you to ask questions. I'm also smart enough to realize that McCants hasn't been developed in 8 short weeks either.

Not sure what it is and I know it's not just one thing, but our OL is a mess right now. Yes we've had injuries, but our play, depth and development hasn't been very good lately.

I think your criteria is way to high and you sell some players way short. If you want to criticize JR for not drafting enough OL, sure I can't disagree. Should have gone OL higher and more often. We are seeing the issues manifest themselves now. My issue with your comment is the blame you lay on the coaches for not developing players. They have developed plenty of players and done a lot with very little (talent wise and numbers wise). I'm not going to blame the coaches for the current state of the OL. The GM, sure, you can make a case for that, but you can't call out the coaching staff because they couldn't develop McCants into a starter.

it's not soley on the coaches, but they have some ownership in this mess.

JR doesn't get a pass either and neither do the coaches. You can't run that many guys through the program and not hit on a couple of guys.

Whether JR, and the scouting dept for that matter, is reaching for guys and hoping that the coaches can make chicken salad out of chicken shit I'm not sure. But whatever formula they're using isnt working.

a bunch of OL. Koets got hurt, Petrus is gone, Whimper is gone, Herman we will see what he can do. In the mean time, we have Cordle, Brewer and Mosley. Pugh is a rookie and DD, Snee and Baas are on their last legs. Over all, we need to step it up.

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