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Re: Dan Rather report on bee shortage in Calif almonds

It's almost 6 am Monday morning here, got to shake for Phil AKA "honey4all", then shake for Randy Oliver and maybe John Jacob aka "JBJ", yes MAJOR bee diaster here.... we've been trying to shake a 1000lb a day or avg 5,000lb a week. I just don't get it, but then again I'm not chasing coffee shop meeting.

Re: Dan Rather report on bee shortage in Calif almonds

Originally Posted by Keith Jarrett

Adee had MITE problems,

Keith.....Brett and I met for dinner a couple of times during almonds and I spoke with him again about an hour ago. He says that attributing all of his loses to mites would not be an accurate characterization of this winters losses. He believes about 25% would be directly attributable to mites but that his greatest loses (by far) were bees that were on sunflower. Now....is that poor pollen, no pollen, no nectar, chemicals, stresses that exacerbate mite problems.......there's the sixty four thousand dollar question. The rest he believed were related to stresses directly due to poor forage.....a subject that has been discussed here ad nauseam. I'm not defending or supporting anyone on this issue......also.....some where in one of these threads someone stated that Adee built those numbers after the price of almonds went up....I would disagree with that statement also as they had those numbers long before almond prices jumped. The almond price DID, however draw them to Cali. As it has many others.

Re: Dan Rather report on bee shortage in Calif almonds

Originally Posted by dback

He says that attributing all of his loses to mites would not be an accurate characterization of this winters losses. He believes about 25% would be directly attributable to mites but that his greatest loses (by far) were bees that were on sunflower.

I have heard from more than one ND beekeeper that their worst losses were bees on sunflowers.

"People will generally accept facts as truth only if the facts agree with what they already believe."- Andy Rooney

Re: Dan Rather report on bee shortage in Calif almonds

Originally Posted by dback

I hope none of my response appears argumentative....it was only meant as conversation.

Larry, well said, we need to get all of this out in the open so we can really track whats going on. First, following a mono crop is risky, I will not run bees on back to back crops, I know that more than one was injured chasing sunflowers in ND, they told me that was the only thing there was. So this is also a management call.

Re: Dan Rather report on bee shortage in Calif almonds

Dandelion bloom unfortunately happens at planting time. In WI quite a few Beeks come here for that build up and/or honey crop. It sucks that the farmers are legally able to apply pesticides known to kill bees directly on plants in bloom while being worked by pollinators.

Re: Dan Rather report on bee shortage in Calif almonds

Originally Posted by Keith Jarrett

a mono crop is risky,

I have hives that left almonds and went directly to another crop that is the ONLY source of pollen they will see until early Nov.....I pay dearly for it. We have no choice (IMO) but to supplement feed.

Re: Dan Rather report on bee shortage in Calif almonds

Originally Posted by dback

but to supplement feed.

now your speaking my lanuage.

But on a more serious note, you know Larry I live in Sutter Creek, after almonds I drive up hwy 99 to Stockton take hwy 88 right through the cherries & apples, I wont stop until I get to the green foothills with oak & buck brush pollen. Could I do the cherries an not get hurt.... maybe, but I know what oak & buck brush pollen does, it comes down to management, what risks is the keeper willing to take.

Re: Dan Rather report on bee shortage in Calif almonds

Originally Posted by Beeslave

Dandelion bloom unfortunately happens at planting time. In WI quite a few Beeks come here for that build up and/or honey crop. It sucks that the farmers are legally able to apply pesticides known to kill bees directly on plants in bloom while being worked by pollinators.

its going to be very interesting to see what this late, or maybe more normal spring brings. im sure the farmers are getting very antsy.... should be a very good build up. i hope!!

Re: Dan Rather report on bee shortage in Calif almonds

when ever someone asks me about bees and how they are doing, when I start talking to them, their eyes glaze over.
Dan presents this stuff to the same people,

The rather report is not perfect but, it does help with those glazed over looks I get when I answer the questions.

I think Keith is Spot on though on the nutrition and mites being the way to survive until we get the systemic's under control and the monocrops. I am all for not killing all the noxious weeds all the states seem to want to get rid of. I like knotweed and blackberry which is on the hit list.

Re: Dan Rather report on bee shortage in Calif almonds

Originally Posted by jim lyon

I have heard from more than one ND beekeeper that their worst losses were bees on sunflowers.

I always notice a larger winter loss in my hives that I move to the sunflowers in August. However more years then not the main flow is about over by then so it's move them to the flowers and pull an extra 40-80lbs per hive or don't and be happy with what you have. My hives off the sunflowers will generally have a 20% winter loss compared to 5-10% on the others. With the price of honey it makes sense to me. After the sunflowers these hives are all kept separate all the way to the almonds as they will take a little extra care (feed/pollen) to get there. Even with this extra care they will generally go into almonds 4 frames behind the rest.
Sunflower pollen is 13-14% protein with Tryptophan and Methionine being below a 1/3 the recommended amount.

Re: Dan Rather report on bee shortage in Calif almonds

Originally Posted by Beeslave

Dandelion bloom unfortunately happens at planting time. In WI quite a few Beeks come here for that build up and/or honey crop. It sucks that the farmers are legally able to apply pesticides known to kill bees directly on plants in bloom while being worked by pollinators.

the farmer has to feed his kids too you know.

mike syracuse ny
I went to bed mean, and woke up meaner. Marshal Dillon

Re: Dan Rather report on bee shortage in Calif almonds

Originally Posted by busy bee apiary

Sunflower pollen is 13-14% protein with Tryptophan and Methionine being below a 1/3 the recommended amount.

Now you got me thinking Dereck, this sounds much like cotton in Calif, I have an costomer that buys sub in the middle of the summer he takes a large amount and is a very good keeper, so one year I ask him, Bob why are you buying this sub so early for, Mr. Brandi said, Keith, in cotton you have a great stimulating flow but with little pollen to go with it, so, you will pull supers of honey & at the time the bees will look GREAT, then 2-4 months later if you don't sub feed (at the time of bloom) you will bee left with 4-5 framers.
Any thoughts on this, does this sound like sunflowers?

Re: Dan Rather report on bee shortage in Calif almonds

What makes no sense to me is why some beekeepers can have high losses running bees in the exact same area as other beekeepers not seeing the losses.

We (meaning my folk, I work closely with them in the summer) run share crop bees for 4 different beekeepers in the summer. In 2009-10 our own bees crashed hard, and we lost 70% in California before it was all said and done in the almonds. I was adamant that it had to have been the sunflowers. But, we came to find out that the share crop beekeepers that we had set up in the exact same area/county we had our bees in that summer did not crash. Maybe slightly higher losses because of the previous summer's poor bee forage conditions, but NO mass crash like we had.

This year, same deal. Following up with the share beekeepers, one crashed this year and he will be the first to say it was mites. The other three did fine. The neighbor beekeeper crashed this year, he had mite problems all last summer. Some other beekeeping neighbor bees did fine this winter. All of the bees made the majority of their honey off of sunflowers.

Another thing I wonder about is the actual sunflowers. What is the percentage of seed treated sunflowers in different regions, and is there is a difference in bee losses in areas where there are confection sunflower fields vs oil sunflower areas.