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I've always found that having a bit of draw spin improves overall distance due to better roll out. Seems like common knowledge, but its never discussed in the optimizing context. At lower club head speeds, like mine, this is much more important. Optimizing carry distance is counterproductive except in wet soggy conditions. I suppose if you are worried about rolling through the fairway it might have some merit.

I recently tried the Nike driver at Nike day at the range. They had a flight scope setup. As I hit balls, they made shaft/loft changes to increase spin to conform to the optimal and the shorter the club got. At the end I hit my driver, which apparently hit knuckle balls, and was longer than any of the settings/shafts on the Nike.

I've always found that having a bit of draw spin improves overall distance due to better roll out. Seems like common knowledge, but its never discussed in the optimizing context. At lower club head speeds, like mine, this is much more important. Optimizing carry distance is counterproductive except in wet soggy conditions. I suppose if you are worried about rolling through the fairway it might have some merit.

I recently tried the Nike driver at Nike day at the range. They had a flight scope setup. As I hit balls, they made shaft/loft changes to increase spin to conform to the optimal and the shorter the club got. At the end I hit my driver, which apparently hit knuckle balls, and was longer than any of the settings/shafts on the Nike.

Most golfers don't swing well enough to hit a low spin fade. You want to get pretty close to optimal as far as carry, but if anything be on the lowish side spin wise. I hit my longest drives with a borderline knuckleball. When I hit the full on knuckle ball, I lose tons of carry and it only rolls a little more than my optimal shot does, but with way worse control.

Keep in mind that the spin versus carry distance curve has a very shallow peak. If you optimium spin is 3,114rpm then the loss of distance due to having spin of 2,900 or 3, 330 instead is typically a couple yards. So trying for somewhere close to optimal is worthwhile, just don't get too hung up over differences of 100 or 200rpm.

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Jeez! If you launch a Drive at 15* with only 2500 rpm on a windy Scottish Links, you better be prepared to lose some Golf balls. Lol. Seriously though, it depends on the conditions a Golfer plays imo. If you play in a vacuum, I'm sure those numbers are pretty much on the money.

Just a figure of speach, as I said though, play in 30-35mph winds and that launch angle simply won't cut it. So a Golfer should always consider the conditions he/she plays in. Something its very difficult for a launch monitor to factor in.

Correction on that last comment of mine. I meant when it comes to charts. Obviously a doppler radar system factors it in automatically. But a chart can't do that. Just wanted to say that, before the smart**** jump on any misunderstanding.

Actually, all joking about vacuum aside it would be interesting to know how a Trackman  fitting for a player in the windier areas of the UK might differ from one in USA. Presumably an experienced fitter over there might offer different "optimum" guidance if he knew the player played most of his rounds in breezy-to-windy-to-awful conditions. I'm guessing on that chart something around that "Maximum Total" line or even a bit lower than that might be a good starting point.

Actually, all joking about vacuum aside it would be interesting to know how a Trackman ™ fitting for a player in the windier areas of the UK might differ from one in USA. Presumably an experienced fitter over there might offer different "optimum" guidance if he knew the player played most of his rounds in breezy-to-windy-to-awful conditions. I'm guessing on that chart something around that "Maximum Total" line or even a bit lower than that might be a good starting point.

I think you may be right in some circumstances. I'm sure the fitters over here, still have the same guidlines, but I would hope a good fitter would talk for 5-10 mins with a Golfer to ask about the nuances of his/her game. I know, at my fitting on Saturday, the Callaway fitter was excellent. He asked lots of questions about my game before I even hit a ball. And as you say, if a player brings it up that he/she plays on a Links Course, I would hope the fitter would kinda factor that in, as my fitter did. My SS is around 104-106, and although according to the chart, to maximize my Driver my optimized launch angle should be around 14* I would think, because I play on those Links Courses, its just not practical to play with that kind of launch angle. The fitter recognized my concern, and we got a launch condition where I liked the look of the ball flight, so we kinda went by eye, and the ball flight, more than a blind reliance on the machine. It just so happened the launch angle I liked the look of, for the Courses I play, was around 11.5*. I knew with only 2300-2500rpm that this would maximize the roll on those firm Links fairways. I think the Fitter was marvellous to recognize this, but I would also say that not all Fitters are quite as flexible in their approach.

Actually, all joking about vacuum aside it would be interesting to know how a Trackman ™ fitting for a player in the windier areas of the UK might differ from one in USA. Presumably an experienced fitter over there might offer different "optimum" guidance if he knew the player played most of his rounds in breezy-to-windy-to-awful conditions. I'm guessing on that chart something around that "Maximum Total" line or even a bit lower than that might be a good starting point.

I think you may be right in some circumstances. I'm sure the fitters over here, still have the same guidlines, but I would hope a good fitter would talk for 5-10 mins with a Golfer to ask about the nuances of his/her game. I know, at my fitting on Saturday, the Callaway fitter was excellent. He asked lots of questions about my game before I even hit a ball. And as you say, if a player brings it up that he/she plays on a Links Course, I would hope the fitter would kinda factor that in, as my fitter did. My SS is around 104-106, and although according to the chart, to maximize my Driver my optimized launch angle should be around 14* I would think, because I play on those Links Courses, its just not practical to play with that kind of launch angle. The fitter recognized my concern, and we got a launch condition where I liked the look of the ball flight, so we kinda went by eye, and the ball flight, more than a blind reliance on the machine. It just so happened the launch angle I liked the look of, for the Courses I play, was around 11.5*. I knew with only 2300-2500rpm that this would maximize the roll on those firm Links fairways. I think the Fitter was marvellous to recognize this, but I would also say that not all Fitters are quite as flexible in their approach.

If you guys can just get Springtime to arrive over there, you ought to be getting it out there pretty good. That LA and spin and a 100+ swing ought to run like the dickens. When I do a golf holiday over there in the summer time I'd swear I get more roll-out from a 5-iron than I do with my driver back home. So my goal at home is just maximize carry, period. Most of the time our fairways aren't conducive to getting anything like the number on the Trackman advisory chart for roll-out.

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Actually, all joking about vacuum aside it would be interesting to know how a Trackman ™ fitting for a player in the windier areas of the UK might differ from one in USA. Presumably an experienced fitter over there might offer different "optimum" guidance if he knew the player played most of his rounds in breezy-to-windy-to-awful conditions. I'm guessing on that chart something around that "Maximum Total" line or even a bit lower than that might be a good starting point.

I think you may be right in some circumstances. I'm sure the fitters over here, still have the same guidlines, but I would hope a good fitter would talk for 5-10 mins with a Golfer to ask about the nuances of his/her game. I know, at my fitting on Saturday, the Callaway fitter was excellent. He asked lots of questions about my game before I even hit a ball. And as you say, if a player brings it up that he/she plays on a Links Course, I would hope the fitter would kinda factor that in, as my fitter did. My SS is around 104-106, and although according to the chart, to maximize my Driver my optimized launch angle should be around 14* I would think, because I play on those Links Courses, its just not practical to play with that kind of launch angle. The fitter recognized my concern, and we got a launch condition where I liked the look of the ball flight, so we kinda went by eye, and the ball flight, more than a blind reliance on the machine. It just so happened the launch angle I liked the look of, for the Courses I play, was around 11.5*. I knew with only 2300-2500rpm that this would maximize the roll on those firm Links fairways. I think the Fitter was marvellous to recognize this, but I would also say that not all Fitters are quite as flexible in their approach.

If you guys can just get Springtime to arrive over there, you ought to be getting it out there pretty good. That LA and spin and a 100+ swing ought to run like the dickens. When I do a golf holiday over there in the summer time I'd swear I get more roll-out from a 5-iron than I do with my driver back home. So my goal at home is just maximize carry, period. Most of the time our fairways aren't conducive to getting anything like the number on the Trackman advisory chart for roll-out.

Oh I totally agree on that! A 5 iron hit easy to knock alot of the spin off, with just an 'armsy' swing, can defo roll out 30 yards. A Driver hit at 11* to keep the ball going forward through the wind, hit in the same way, can certainly roll out 60+ yards on firm Links fairways. So a 240 yard carry can easily get out to 300. By the same token, a 280 yard carry with 'optimal' launch conditions, can just bounce up in the air on landing with no more than 20 yards run out, and then you have the risk of losing the flight in the 30 mph winds. No great benefit, and more risk of the wind taking the ball to all corners. I think you made me realize that we play totally different games to eachother, and it helps me to understand something new, and respect it more, the formats that you guys often use is very applicable (Texas withstanding) criteria, and these charts are extremely useful to you. But over here, particularly in Scotland, these charts kinda go out of the window a bit.

Actually, all joking about vacuum aside it would be interesting to know how a Trackman ™ fitting for a player in the windier areas of the UK might differ from one in USA. Presumably an experienced fitter over there might offer different "optimum" guidance if he knew the player played most of his rounds in breezy-to-windy-to-awful conditions. I'm guessing on that chart something around that "Maximum Total" line or even a bit lower than that might be a good starting point.

I think you may be right in some circumstances. I'm sure the fitters over here, still have the same guidlines, but I would hope a good fitter would talk for 5-10 mins with a Golfer to ask about the nuances of his/her game. I know, at my fitting on Saturday, the Callaway fitter was excellent. He asked lots of questions about my game before I even hit a ball. And as you say, if a player brings it up that he/she plays on a Links Course, I would hope the fitter would kinda factor that in, as my fitter did. My SS is around 104-106, and although according to the chart, to maximize my Driver my optimized launch angle should be around 14* I would think, because I play on those Links Courses, its just not practical to play with that kind of launch angle. The fitter recognized my concern, and we got a launch condition where I liked the look of the ball flight, so we kinda went by eye, and the ball flight, more than a blind reliance on the machine. It just so happened the launch angle I liked the look of, for the Courses I play, was around 11.5*. I knew with only 2300-2500rpm that this would maximize the roll on those firm Links fairways. I think the Fitter was marvellous to recognize this, but I would also say that not all Fitters are quite as flexible in their approach.

If you guys can just get Springtime to arrive over there, you ought to be getting it out there pretty good. That LA and spin and a 100+ swing ought to run like the dickens. When I do a golf holiday over there in the summer time I'd swear I get more roll-out from a 5-iron than I do with my driver back home. So my goal at home is just maximize carry, period. Most of the time our fairways aren't conducive to getting anything like the number on the Trackman advisory chart for roll-out.

Oh I totally agree on that! A 5 iron hit easy to knock alot of the spin off, with just an 'armsy' swing, can defo roll out 30 yards. A Driver hit at 11* to keep the ball going forward through the wind, hit in the same way, can certainly roll out 60+ yards on firm Links fairways. So a 240 yard carry can easily get out to 300. By the same token, a 280 yard carry with 'optimal' launch conditions, can just bounce up in the air on landing with no more than 20 yards run out, and then you have the risk of losing the flight in the 30 mph winds. No great benefit, and more risk of the wind taking the ball to all corners. I think you made me realize that we play totally different games to eachother, and it helps me to understand something new, and respect it more, the formats that you guys often use is very applicable (Texas withstanding) criteria, and these charts are extremely useful to you. But over here, particularly in Scotland, these charts kinda go out of the window a bit.

My visit to Ganton in Yorkshire caught it during a very "keen" period when the course and especially the greens were about as firm as I've ever played. The wind was generally in the low-mid teens (mph) but even that much breeze when the course is running makes for a very fun game. But as you say, it's a matter of being careful what you wish for. Those fast fairways will let your ball run into bunkers or rough that an American would normally consider totally "out of play" on the shot.