Whats the chances its one of those super charged Hollows Aizen was experimenting with that beats up Isshin. I suspect Ichigos mother removes her glove to take it out once Isshin is on his arse, would explain how Grandfisher managed to get the jump on her if she couldnt actualy see it (due to losing her powers)

Zangetsu is probably some uber strong Quincy / Fullbring / Shinigami / Hollow shit that is coming from the Soul King himself.

I wanted to say that Zangetsu was Isshin's Zanpaktou, that's why Ichigo could hear the voice of Zangetsu and it would also explain why Isshin could teach Ichigo the final Getsuga, but that doesn't make sense either >.<
But it seems more like Isshin's and Ichigo's Zanpaktou's are a "set".

Well, seeing how Ichigo lost his Shinigami power and with that, also Zangetsu he should have never had it after that. But! Seeing how they gave him his Shinigami power back and his Fullbring power he just received it all i guess.

It's more that, compared to "others" Ichigo all of the sudden got his powers. He got stabbed, became a Shinigame and all of the sudden BAM; big ass sword. Not a normal Asauchi sword. No, a big sword which he didn't know shit about.

Normal Shinigami, or atleast "soldiers" (is it the same?) live with their Asauchi as if it is their friend, their family, their comrade, their partner. Ichigo didn't have all of this, he just wanted to protect his sister from the hollow. He didn't "grow up and live together" with a Asauchi.

That, and most likely cause of his (back then unknown) Quincy power he probably works in a different way then normal ones.

On a complete side note; how did Isshin get his ass kicked by a normal hollow in the first chapter...? He was a former captain, even as human he should be able to sense something, right? :/

On a complete side note; how did Isshin get his ass kicked by a normal hollow in the first chapter...? He was a former captain, even as human he should be able to sense something, right? :/

Ive been rewatching the bleach anime (without fillers ofc) and after Ryūken Ishida helps his son get his quincy powers back, Isshin turns up and Ryūken says to Isshin "so I see you´ve got your suit back (I think he says suit, or costume, or it could be powers, been 2 weeks since i saw it).

So im guessing he lost his shinigami powers , and retained them shortly before Ichigo and the gang heads to soul society for the first time.

Edit : youre right tho, its weird that he´s incable of feeling any reitsu even in human form.

Hmm, so this all raises an interesting question. Why couldn't Zangetsu be sealed by the quincy? Is it possible that Zangetsu is not a real bankai and some sort of bridged hybrid between Quincy and Zanpakto? What does this make Zangetsu than? Could it be one of the most powerful soul slayers because of being a hybrid mix? I want to know how this arc is going to tie everything we know together.

Ive been rewatching the bleach anime (without fillers ofc) and after Ryūken Ishida helps his son get his quincy powers back, Isshin turns up and Ryūken says to Isshin "so I see you´ve got your suit back (I think he says suit, or costume, or it could be powers, been 2 weeks since i saw it).

So im guessing he lost his shinigami powers , and retained them shortly before Ichigo and the gang heads to soul society for the first time.

Edit : youre right tho, its weird that he´s incable of feeling any reitsu even in human form.

Well, it's rather weird no matter how you look at it. Grand Fissher was what, episode 2 material. (And a quick google says he dies in 111-112).
I doubt he lost his Shinigami power tho, i mean; against who did he have to use the Final Getsuga and how would he have regained his power?

Originally Posted by Vallin

Hmm, so this all raises an interesting question. Why couldn't Zangetsu be sealed by the quincy? Is it possible that Zangetsu is not a real bankai and some sort of bridged hybrid between Quincy and Zanpakto? What does this make Zangetsu than? Could it be one of the most powerful soul slayers because of being a hybrid mix? I want to know how this arc is going to tie everything we know together.

Wasn't it that unknown / yet to grow/develop / too great power couldn't be stolen?
Yamamato's Bankai was too powerfull, atleast for that floyd/royd guy that i remember.

But it would make more sense if it is a mix of Quincy/Shinigami and that Quincy's can't steal other Quincy's their weapon and that is why they fear Ichigo/Zangetsu.

afaik Ichigo's power couldn't be sealed because his Bankai is still an unknown factor, same reason that they could only seal Zanka No Tachi after he'd shown all four directions.

I'm also kinda hoping that's why certain captains *cough*my main man Shunsui*cough* haven't ever revealed their Bankai. Of course there are story reasons, but it could be the REAL reason is Kubo san was planning ahead for this arc.

As for Isshin, I'm guessing at the start of the series Isshin was still suffering from burn out due to using Final Getsuga Tenshou, but when he noticed the shit was kicking off, he..... story stuffed... and got his powers back. As for him not being able to sense the Hollow... Didn't Ichigo lose his ability to sense Reiatsu when he lost his powers as well? If Isshin was still burned out then it makes sense he'd get his ass kicked.

Reading A Song of Ice and Fire is like playing with an adorable puppy, then someone comes up out of nowhere, shoots the puppy and punches you in the face.

Stands in front of 100 enemies with 10% health left "Myeh, I'll save my potions for when I REALLY need them." - every rpg player ever.

Honestly, the reason Zangetsu broke BETTER be about how it absorbed Quincy powers and somehow fucked it up. Back when Ichigo fought Gin Gin was like "omg your bankai is so strong mine is gonna break :/" and look at this shit. No one else's Zanpakto broke.

It would be awesome if he really planned this far ahead. Seeing how we have seen the Bankai's of the more "common" captains and the "less common" have kept theirs a secret.
It's probably a story wise thing.

Would make sense yeah about Isshin his powers. Ichigo couldn't see Rukia nor sense any Reiatsu.

That seems the logical answer, when cool things are happening and you're not sure who did it, it was probably Urahara

Originally Posted by Fooliecoolie

It wasn't never known, squad 10 was out on a mission. But my question is how much did Toshiro and Rangiku know about Isshin and Ichigo in the earlier arcs?

Oh yeah I'd forgotten that... fairly deftly done there Kubo san... I'm guessing Toshirou and Rangiku know very little about Ichigo and his connection to Isshin. He was very careful to cover his tracks, with the namechange, add in the fact Ichigo seems to favour misaki more in looks... They MIGHT have had some suspicions though, especially if they were familiar with both Zanpaktou.

Reading A Song of Ice and Fire is like playing with an adorable puppy, then someone comes up out of nowhere, shoots the puppy and punches you in the face.

Stands in front of 100 enemies with 10% health left "Myeh, I'll save my potions for when I REALLY need them." - every rpg player ever.

I doubt Toshiro and Rangiku know anything about Ichigo being the son of Isshin. It seems like they have never seen Isshin after whatever happened between now and since they last saw him.

At some point he attempted to learn the Final Getsuga Tenshō by facing his Zanpakutō Engetsu. Whether he succeeded or was not able to learn this technique is unknown.[9] At some point, while in Karakura Town he was saved by a young Masaki as Isshin was left heavily injured and Masaki introduced herself as a Quincy.[10] About twenty years ago, he ceased being a Shinigami,[11] losing most of his powers.[12] Over ten years ago, Isshin encountered an imperfect Arrancar.[13]

Bleach wiki, huray!

So its either that he did learn the Final Getsuga, but something happend which resulted in a not-complete loss of power (maybe stronger/more experienced) then Ichigo.

OR!

Because he volunteerly/forcefully stopped being a Shinigami, they stripped most of his power knowing one day they might need him again.

Bleach wiki ftw! although as with ANY wiki I take everything with a pinch of salt as it's updated by random people, so it's more than possible for them to be wrong.

I'm doubt the "incomplete loss of power" thing, FGT burns out your power, that is the big downside to the technique. Either Isshin learnt, used and suffered the full consequences of FGT or he didn't. There is no halfway .

However... I think the idea of either voluntarily or forcibly having his power removed.... That sounds fairly possible. It's not out of the realms of possibility that both Isshin and Misaki burnt out there own powers in an effort to help themselves hide from the Shinigami/Quincy. Would also explain how the Grand Fisher was able to kill Misaki, as surely a Quincy would be able to handle a simple hollow.

Reading A Song of Ice and Fire is like playing with an adorable puppy, then someone comes up out of nowhere, shoots the puppy and punches you in the face.

Stands in front of 100 enemies with 10% health left "Myeh, I'll save my potions for when I REALLY need them." - every rpg player ever.

I think it was voluntarily and that they wanted to protect their family that way. Urahara got kicked because of the Hollowfication program. Why would they have kicked Isshin, cause he loved a Quincy? Seems a bit overkill there.

Altho i can see a "either you get the fuck out of here and stay with her, or you get stripped of your rank". But i guess we will see that soon enough.

As for FGT, Isshin learned it. That is for sure; he tought Ichigo it. In a speeded up way ofcourse. So maybe Isshin did master it to a somehow "lower degree" of it. Become Getsuga, but don't lose your power.

When you watch the episode, they say during/after Mugetsu that he loses his power. Maybe a missunderstanding from my part, or maybe it just isn't clear enough; What if you lose your powers when you use Mugetsu? It's a like a final blow; use ALL your Reiatsu in a attempt to kill/defeat your opponent. But if you "become" Getsuga, it's all ok.

Also; in before Ichigo dies at the end of Bleach. But that's for a later point

true it seems a bit overkill, but lets not forget this is Yamamoto, who is a bit of a hardass dereliction of duty and all that, plus he seems to really hate Quincy.

I guess that could happen... maybe the point of FGT is to turn all your reiatsu into one final strike, if you dont USE that strike... who knows. Personally though I think it's taking on the form that fucks you, so once you've activated FGT it's all or nothing, but as you say, we'll find out soon enough.

I agree, Ichigo is totally going to die at the end of Bleach...

and then come back as a real Shinigami As I said pages and pages ago, he'll die in the final fight, then he'll come back and they'll make him a captain. They do have like... 5 spots to fill now.

Reading A Song of Ice and Fire is like playing with an adorable puppy, then someone comes up out of nowhere, shoots the puppy and punches you in the face.

Stands in front of 100 enemies with 10% health left "Myeh, I'll save my potions for when I REALLY need them." - every rpg player ever.

true it seems a bit overkill, but lets not forget this is Yamamoto, who is a bit of a hardass dereliction of duty and all that, plus he seems to really hate Quincy.

I guess that could happen... maybe the point of FGT is to turn all your reiatsu into one final strike, if you dont USE that strike... who knows. Personally though I think it's taking on the form that fucks you, so once you've activated FGT it's all or nothing, but as you say, we'll find out soon enough.

I agree, Ichigo is totally going to die at the end of Bleach...

and then come back as a real Shinigami As I said pages and pages ago, he'll die in the final fight, then he'll come back and they'll make him a captain. They do have like... 5 spots to fill now.

5 spots? They just have to replace...Yamma. And Unohana.

Bald guy in 11th division can be a captain. Renji is definitely captain level. Problem solved.