I recently lost an H Demon, and i have yet to get a new overstable mid. I dont need something so overstable, but i need it for hyzers. I was thinking of getting a champ gator. i think the demon was a good utility disc, but i could always throw a firebird for those rare shots.

I also am pretty clueless about filling the gap between my Z XL and my firebird. i cant seem to find a moderatly overstable disc that dosent need a huge arm to throw it. i am more about form than power, and i throw about 250-280' average dead straight with my ZXL, max D about 325'. i need a disc with that type of speed, but able to take a head wind. I wont be using for just headwinds though, i would also use it for open drives or for shots that need to finish slight left, so typical headwind sugestions are usually too overstable for me.

im still fairly new to the game, only about 1 year of 'competetive' experience. my best shots, and most reliable shots are with my ZXL and Z buzz, and i use these about 90% of the time for drives. right now my biggest roblem is finding a long (for me) overstable driver, because i feel my game is hurting in those situations.

I also am pretty clueless about filling the gap between my Z XL and my firebird. i cant seem to find a moderatly overstable disc that dosent need a huge arm to throw it. i am more about form than power, and i throw about 250-280' average dead straight with my ZXL, max D about 325'. i need a disc with that type of speed, but able to take a head wind. I wont be using for just headwinds though, i would also use it for open drives or for shots that need to finish slight left, so typical headwind sugestions are usually too overstable for me.

Kind of obvious, but a Teebird (Star or Champ) is perfect for this. Also, Viking, Z Avenger would work here. Probably many others too that I don't know as well. This should not be a difficult spot to fill.

my buddy throws a viking, and he has a bigger arm, but it always just goes super straight for him with some fade. i can see it being good for holes slight left, but will it stand up to winds?

and the Z XL kicked the TB and TL out of my bag. for me, the zxl covers both of those discs places, and also is more consistant. the TB always seemed to have a small S turn when i threw it. not major, but it seemed slightly less high speed stable than the ZXL. maybey my ZXL is more stable for some reason, but i throw it flat and level, and its like a bullet for 90% of its flight.

I have heard avenger sugested before, but i dont know if i could handle the speed. i throw slow and controlled, so i dont think i could cut through the wind with a faster disc. i thought i could do it with my firebird, but its just too much for me. Blakes universal chart lists the firebird as a 4, and the avenger as a 5, while im most comfortable throwing 3s (XL) and low 4s (eagle/TB).

i dont think this question is that hard, but personally, i dont have enough experience with this type of driver. i wish i knew someone with an avenger, id like to see just how fast it is.

Doesn't the starfire fill the gap between the xl and firebird? If not, an x avenger or crush will work just fine. I find the avenger very controllable for a fast disc. The only thing is that my x avenger was similar to a pro starfire I had. Perhaps try a lower weight avenger; mine is 165 due to availability at the time I bought them. If I could choose, it would have been closer to 170 or maybe 168.

I am a demon thrower; however, it is very overstable. I am going to try a z wasp when it comes in.

I am an avenger and tracker thrower myself, but you have the xl which would be overlap. Many buzz throwers like the x tracker.

You actually have most shots covered that I can think of. Wait, do you have an understable or beat up version of something in there?

My starfire is a PRO, so its pretty flippy. you have to throw it higher for it to fade back left again, or at least thats what i TRY to do. like i said i havent learned it yet, but it is definatly high speed understable.

I was considering trying a DX or PRO firebird and beating it up. the only problem is, in my experience (which i dont have much of) even the most overstable DX plastic become flippy if its beat. i threw an old DX banshee not to long ago, and it was an overstable disc at low speeds, but it had a tendancy to turn if thrown hard and flat. Any one have experience with the PRO firebirds? do they still stay overstable?

As for the wasp, i used to have one, and it was a great disc, but i replaced it with the Buzz. at the time i had the demon, so i didnt need an overstable mid, and i liked the feel of the buzz much more. i dont think the wasp is different enough from my buzz to throw it back in my bag. thats why i thought of trying the gator.

If you want to stay out of the super fast driver realm, An Eagle could fill the gap between your XL and Firebird. It is similar in speed to an XL but is definitley more stable and can also handle a headwind.

If you like the Buzzz, a Z-Wasp would make a good overstable midrange. These are both based off the same mold, but the wasp has a bead making it more overstable. The gator is good too, but is not as long as the Wasp/Buzzz. I see the Gator as more of an approach disc.

By the sound of it we have similar throwing styles. I really like your setup, it is a bit similar in concept to mine:
Drivers: Monster/Orc/Q-JLS (main driver)/Sidewinder
Mids: Buzzz/Classic Roc/Drone (will replace with Wasp)
Putts: Banger GT, Putt'r

whats funny is that with my driving style i can only throw about 280' average with a driver, but my midrange distance is about 260+, and my putter is 240+. it sounds odd, but i think its just because i have good form/snap, but i dont have much power. i used to throw 90% forehand, but lately ive focused on developing my backhand. because of this i dont have the arm that most people do, but i figure form before power is a much better way to learn.

I have thrown an eagle before, but it was back when i just started learning backhand. to me, it seemed more stable than the TB, but according to all the reviews, its actually a step lower in high speed stability. i always wanted to pick up an eagle again, but hearing that it was less stable than my TB pushed me away.

both max and champion. my TB has more fade than the ZXL, but it seemed slightly less highspeed stable. it would do a small s turn, where my ZXL is just dead straight, no turn at all. and this was throwing them back to back, equal power.

You could try a Gazelle for the moderately overstable driver. An Avenger might work too at your armspeed. It may not fly quite as intended, but it is less overstable than a Firebird and more overstable than a XL.

looking at some discs, im noticing a few discraft with similar flight ratings.

Tracker, Avenger, and Crush. im sure they all fly different, but with similar ratings, how do they differ? im assuming the tracker would go too straight for what i need correct? and the Crush seems to just have slightly bit more fade than the avenger in rating, but how much differently does it fly? is it faster? closer to a firebird?

sorry for the stupid questions, but ive stayed away from 'new school' discs for a long time, and i havent payed attention to much of the information on them.

Last edited by jgarcia9102 on Thu Apr 13, 2006 5:20 am, edited 1 time in total.

The avenger in z plastic is most overstable, followed by Z crush, X crush, x avenger then the tracker.
the avenger in x plastic is the longest, than the crush in x*, then the avenger in z (if you have the power), than the Z crush, than the tracker.

Every one agree?

(my worn in Z avenger is almost as long as any x crush was for me)
the problem with the X avenger is it seems to break in alittle faster than alot of drivers. Theyre my favorite one though, so Im always looking for more.

i was reading that the Z crush was just a bit more overstable than the Z avenger? hmm...

I have to say, i will be getting Z plastic no matter the driver. i find it more consistant for me, and i just dont like floppy plastics.

tossing aside the tracker, since it seems to close to my ZXL (the description calls it a longer buzz, and thats exactly what my zxl is for me), how does the crush fly compared to the tracker. i know they both have a good ammount of fade, but im more concerned about HSS. i want a disc that i will be able to throw far, but at the same time i dont want to risk flipping it into the wind. at this point im between the crush and the avenger, and any experience would be greatly appreciated.

maybey i can pick up one of each and try them out for myself eventually.