I know we have a good shot at both, but we're going to be going up against some strong competition for both of them. With Hand, its going to be tough to pry him away from Va. Tech let alone every top SEC school that's coming after him. And with McDowell...the history of top in-state DEs (Zettle '11, Gholston '10, Perry '08, Van Dyke '03) picking Michigan isn't good.

When will people get over Rich Rod? Never?? I wasn't conveiniently picking out recruits from the Rich Rod reign of terror. To make my point about Michigan recruiting high school DEs from the state of Michigan, I went by Rivals rankings of top DEs in the state of Michigan. Woodley and Graham were inside linebackers who grew into defensive end terrors while at Michigan. Nobody is forgetting about them.

I didn't immediately take offense at the general notion of "missed-out top recruits" during the Rich Rod era. By Rodriguez's own account, we missed out on 4-5 top recruits. Probably more (I'd definitely guess more), because of (a) the NCAA investigation and (b) the rumors of a Rodriguez firing, beginning in the 2009 season. It isn't a negative reflection on anything Rodriguez did or didn't do. It was the circumstances at the time.

We have a great shot at McDowell. We have very, very little shot at Hand. As of right now, Hand is a VTech/Bama battle with VTech as his leader. Everyone else is WAY back. Things can change, but people are getting their hopes up on him probably isn't wise.

I really don't understand the "wish him well" comment said over and over on this board. I don't really intend this to be a reply to you since you said unless he goes to Columbus but just did so to give my comment context (although he is going to Columbus so I'm not sure what you're saying either...anyways). Are we just in general saying that we hope the athlete is happy with his choice and generall has a positive college experience? If so, I'm OK with that. If however, we are wishing him a successful football career playing for our arch rival, well I don't share that sentiment. I do not wish any recruit, from Michigan or otherwise, to have a successfull playing career at our rivals. His success is OSU's success. And, I'm sorry, but you can't put success in a box like the whole logic of "I hope he does well, just not against us". If he plays well, he plays well, including against us. And, well...that's not good for us, duh. So, I don't wish him that. If he choses them I hope he's happy, I hope he has a good college experience, I hope he excels academically, but I also hope he winds up a complete bust on the field...sorry. But, I will wait until after he actually signs before I wish him anything in case he flips to us...so I haven't wished him anything yet fwiw.

Reading through this thread you have told someone to stop trolling but why tell someone to stop doing something when you're doing just that? Don't put words in my mouth either. I guess that makes it easier to make your point.

Hoke and the staff had already developed relationships with these kids long before Urban became the coach. It makes it pretty hard to come in and establish that same rapport when someone else has a year head start, huh?

I just think the premise for your analysis is wrong. If disagreeing with you is trolling, I'll keep busy at it, I guess.

Long before Urban became coach his defensive coordinator Luke Fickell and his staff were developing a relationship with Michael Ferns and, like coaches from Stanford, Penn State, ND, Oklahoma had offered a scholarship.

The idea that Meyer was starting from square one with Ferns, given the existing tOSU offer, the coaching continuity and his multiple visits to Columbus doesn't make any sense.

Fickell most certainly recruited Ferns but they went through their worst season as far back as I can remember and there was uncertainty with how well Urban would do and the punishment that came down from the NCAA, even though slight, probably affected a lot of recruits (Kalis). To think that those things didn't play a roll is being naive. Now that it's a level playing field Urban is showing that he is a much better recruiter than Hoke.

As a side note I think it's also important to know that while Hoke and company were in Virginia recruiting Urban and Coombs came to Michigan and saw Webb, Marshall, and Harris.

I hate to say it but urban is probably going to out recruit hoke, he has got those 2 rings, doesn't mean we can't win and the talent disparity won't be huge but urban seems to be winning these battles early.

I agree with you. With Ohio State going 12-0 last season it just reiterates what kind of coach Urban is and he can sell kids on that. If you also factor in how Ohio has the best talent of any school in the mid west then they clearly are at an advantage.

Notre Dame can't be discounted either. Although they are a school that recruits more nationally and are on par with anyone in that regard they've always held that distinction in the mid west. Michigan is surely at a disadvantage compared to these two when it comes to recruiting. It's hard to be third but you need someone like Jim Harbaugh to maintain that recruiting dominance. Hoke will be fine but it will always be an uphill battle with Rose Bowl aspirations and nothing further.

Eh, I agree that OSU has a slight advantage right now with Meyer and his rings. ND will always do well and gets a bump from their MNC game appearance. But M is doing fine. If Hoke can win a B1G title and string together a few 10-win seasons, then M will have the advantage.

I really don't think it's accurate to say that M has only "Rose Bowl aspirations and nothing further" with Hoke.

I know most of us have seen the introductory presser and he only talks about B1G championships. When he addresses the players he asks how many B1G championships. Why no mention of MNCs? Things changed after the implementation of the BCS and now with a playoff they have changed yet again. B1G championships are great but what have they done for Wisconsin?

I get how the big ten championship is a window into anything else and that it's the only thing guaranteed in a world of fickle voters. But psychologically, those who shoot for the highest goal usually achieve higher if they fail than those who reach for an attainable, but lower goal.

Urban shooting for national championships is a higher vision than us shooting for big ten championships and that has an effect on the beliefs and vision of the players. I'm not saying that's all we're shooting for, but constantly talking about a big ten championship as though it is the pinnacle of college football that it may have been thirty years ago isnt enough.

The guys need the vision of being the best. There's a greater likelihood we'll achieve big ten championships if we have it, as well.

for now... Right now we are laying the groundwork of a dynasty, to talk about MNCs would be ridiculous. Now, win a couple big ten championships, bring in a nother couple top 10 classes and then we can talk MNCs as a goal.

Historically, Michigan has recruired every bit as well as ND and OSU. It was only until the latter years of the Carr Era that recruting slipped a bit, but even then Carr was still pulling in top 15 classes.

This bullshit about UM being third is complete nonsense. Michigan has landed back-to-back top 8 classes. At that level the talent differential is so infinitesmial that one would need a electron microscope to see the difference.

I have followed recruiting for 20 years. Even with Ohio's distinct advantage in being located in a football hotbed UM has consistently recruited just as well as Ohio. This is because of the depth of the talent in Ohio. Great ad merely good players will continue to leave Ohio. Besides UM, PSU, MSU, and ND have all gotten excellent players from Ohio. That isn't going to change now. UM also recruits nationally just like ND does. Derrick Green wasn't the first top flight player to come here from outside the region and he won't be the last.

Calm down. Michigan is doing just fine. Ohio and ND will get theirs, but so will Michigan.

Those back to back top 8 classes surely have something to do with Tat Gate and a coaching transition. Now that Urban has had one very successfull season behind him (just like Hoke had) we are seeing what he is really capable of. When is the last time Michigan went into Ohio State's feeder school (Glenville) and grabbed their best player? Don't get me wrong, the classes and players Hoke will pull in will be far and away better than what Carr could do near the end of his career and what Rich Rod could bring in, but I don't see top 10 classes being the norm with the coaches ND and OSU have in place.

I said near the end of his career. You could say his last two or three. I didn't make that distinction but last two makes more sense so let's look at the 2006 and 2007 classes.

2006- 13

2007- 12

I didn't mention anything about how well Tressel or whoever was coaching ND at the time recruited so I don't know why you thought that was an important note to make. I'm talking about who is in place now. The attrition that took place was a huge problem along with the talent evaluation during those times.

I like how you only focused on part of my post rather than the entirety. Adding something about trolling also shows the immaturity of your post. I'm sorry you have to live in Canada and have the Grey Cup instead of the Super Bowl but please remove stick from ass.

It sucks to be angry all the time doesn't it? Anyway, teams go after the best players. I don't really know what else to say. It's pretty simple. We'll see who is on top at the end of the recruiting cycle but we'll have to wait for that. We won't have to wait to find out that you're insufferable. We've known that for a long time now.

Hold the phone, and maybe this doesn't apply to you directly, but to the fanbase as an aggregate body:

You're saying that Tressel didn't just fine with second-rate recruiting against UM to draw parallels with Hoke. I get that, it's decent argument.

But then other UM fans will nod knowingly at you point, but turn around and say "Tressel only beat us because he was running a dirty program." I don't like Tressel, so we can have a rational discussion here, but the two can't be in conjunction. If he only won because he was a cheater, then your argument is deflated. If he won because he was a good coach and got the talent he needed despite it not being the best in country, then it's basically tacitly saying that the indescretions of the program didn't affect the product on the field at all

I'm not sure that the two things are entirely incongruent as it is not so much that Tressel's recruiting was "second rate" (there wasn't much difference between the teams in ranking in that time) but that he got the players he needed to succeed in his system. I do not like Tressel on an ethical level (see Smith, Troy or Clarett, Maurice etc.) but I respect that he knew what he wanted to do on the field, how he wanted his teams to play and the sort of talent he required in order to make that happen. I don't think the "indiscretions of the program" exclusively made the program a winner for the past decade ...you have to give some credit to Tressel, his staff and the players. That said, it was definitely a bonus that he got some compensated high performance players (Clarett comes to mind) and that kind of player put him in National title consideration etc.. Certainly, he does not beat 'the U', for example, without that sort of paid player.

In the current scenario, Hoke was outrecruited this past year by Meyer by any objective measure. The distance between the teams in terms of talent is not very significant, however and the players that Hoke is getting fit what he and Greg Mattison on defence and Al Borges on offense are looking for that fit their vision. This isn't the Sparty "coach em up" argument...Hoke is getting high four stars and so is Meyer...there is a small statistical variance between the programs and not all players are recruited by both programs so the comparison is skewed in some ways.

At the end of the day, Tressel did a very good to borderline exceptional job identifying the talent he needed for his systems and coaching them. The "indiscretions" of your program took what otherwise would have been a very good team (but one that would have lost more often...and to Michigan) and won a National Title with Clarett etc.

Just because you disagree with what someone says you don't have to make jokes about their nationality. I'm from Canada too and FYI, it's a great place. If you have a problem with someone fine, but keep focused on what the issue is and stop flinging insults about their nationality. I mean...that;s what 5 year olds do.

Monte, you're full of crap. Just GTFO. It's way too early in Hoke's recruiting career here for you to prognosticate such negative gibberish. For all your gloom and doom bullshit, tell me when the last time was UM landed the nation's #1 RB... Oh, about the time UM was pounding OSU to the turf for years, but you're probably too young to remember that. Find that rock you came from under and crawl back under it.

Michigan was pounding Ohio State into the turf on a consistent basis, what, 13 years ago? 10-2 in the last twelve years is insane and all the kids who are being recruited for the future only know this. If you're entering high school it's fair to say that you think Michigan is a shitty football school.

He already has one of the better Ohio prospects in Ferns. Hoke is holding his own.

Like Ohio, not every Michigan kid will want to go to the big instate school. It's either MSU, OSU, or some other school. Marshall and Webb just happened to pick OSU. It's happened before.(See Gholston, Vernon; Washington, Taurian;Krenzel, Craig)

Calm down. UM and Ohio are recruiting at the same level.There is no distinguishable difference between the two.

I have got to give credit to Meyer's recruiting strategy. He decided to go after Michigan's homebase hard and it's worked thus far. If they had chosen to take a softer stance on these guys, I'm sure Michigan could have locked them up, but Meyer has been very aggressive and is making Hoke and Co's recruiting job a little more difficult. I expect our coaches to be up to the challenge though.

Not sure if sarcastic, given your comment at the top of the thread. I just think that Hoke has shown he can recruit on the same level with not that much head-to-head competition between the two. Meyer is finally starting to try to get in there and really see what Hoke is made of. I think Hoke is up to the challenge. I think his staff is. Hoke has done a good job of drawing interest from a lot of the top national prospects. We land a few of those guys and we're not lamenting losing Webb or Marshall.

Damon Webb is going to be a top 100 recruit nationally, so it's a shot to us and a plus to him.

Marshall is a good prospect, but we probably can do better. Meyer can definitely do better given his historical level of recruiting. Probably not a net benefit.

He's trying to screw with us, showing us what happens when we don't stay off his lawn. Good for him, but if he keeps it up it's going to hurt him in the long run...there are only 3-4 kids in Michigan worth it this year. I'm not sure Marshall is one of them.

If we're playing the "who can steal the better player from the other team's home state" game, it's going to be almost impossible for him to win that in the long term. Ohio is too deep and Michigan is too shallow...really MSU is going to end up being the loser here. As usual.

Right, if this leads to him landing McDowell and/or Harris, then we're really talking about Urban owning the state. Meyer probably could have done better than Marshall, but that hurts Michigan only because it's close by. I'm pretty sure most of us will admit Michigan is in on more highly rated defensive ends. Marshall is a solid prospect, close to home. This is definitely going to escalate.

EDIT: You raise a good point as far as who is Meyer missing out on by going after Michigan guys.

OSU has scholarship limits too. Every kid they grab out of Michigan is one less kid that they can grab out of Ohio. Meyer aslo wants to have a significant number of kids from the south.

The net result is a de-emphasis of Ohio by OSU. You can see it when you look at their numbers.

That strategy has some risk. Over time, Meyer will lose his reputation as "that coach from Florida" and become "that coach from the Big Ten". That won't sell as well to many southern kids who will choose to go to a "rising" SEC school - Ole Miss, South Carolina, TAM, etc. - instead of Ohio State.

OSU will get some kids from the state of Michigan, but that's not always going to be a relaible source of talent for Ohio State.

Taking your eye off the Ohio ball to make Hoke's life harder may not be a good long term strategy.

Historically, when Michigan has been able to make in-roads into Ohio, they have been strong. Because of simple math and a wandering eye towards the south and Michigan, Meyer is conceding significant Ohio ground to Michigan.

Pretty good analysis of Meyer's strategy and, yes, Ohio kids are noticing and being passed over or slow-played has hurt some feelings of players at traditionally pipeline programs (e.g. Cardinal-Mooney, Trotwood, Glenville). It's a gamble for sure. That said, this will not be a top year for Ohio talent, so look for both Meyer and Hoke to zero in on the top talent (Ferns, Dante Booker) and move on. In this sense, MSU and other B1G schools should do well, though talent will probably be more of 3*-level (for those that swear by stars). As has been said here and elsewhere, it's very early and UM will get theirs.

You guys are way too worried about one kid making a single decision on where he wants to go to college and play football. OSU will get their players, and we will get ours and sometimes they will get people we want and sometimes we will get people they want. Get over it....We expect that OSU and UM will continue to both get top 10 classes most of the time, and thinking that Meyer or Hoke will likely move that needle much from what it has historically been long term is sheer foolishness. Some kids will prefer one to the other, or one school to the other, and that will not change. Real question is likely more one of individual talent evaluation by both staffs, and the ability to find players who can be and will be coached up and developed. I trust Mattison and Borges and the entire Michigan staff more than I trust the entire OSU staff to be able to do that based on what I have seen from this staff so far, so should all of you.

Yup. Generally, a team's recruiting success for a class is based on how their season went for the year 2 years preceeding the recruiting class (i.e. 2014 recruiting is impacted by 2012 season). UM had a good 2011 season and reaped the benefits in the 2013 class. OSU's success in 2013 class (despite their sh*tty 2011 season) came from the new coach bump and the fact that the new coach in question was Urban Meyer who has 2 MNC rings.

Unfortunately, UM had a relatively disappointing 2012 season (we know that UM played an extremely difficult schedule while OSU played a much easier one but most recruits aren't going to care about that) and it might be reflected in a weaker 2014 class for UM -- relative to the 2013 class. Also unfortunately, OSU had an undefeated season (and didn't even have to play an undefeated ND or a juggernaut Bama in the MNC game and risk losing) so they are probably going to clean up again in 2014. Sucks but probably true.

The way I look at recruiting is that it reshapes the probability that a team wins any given game. We're recruiting at an extremely high level and so is OSU. In fact, they might be at a slightly higher level going forward. Maybe that gives them, based on talent alone, a 50-55% chance of winning a neutral site head-to-head game with us. That's fine. The talent is similar enough that other factors will generally determine the winner (coaching, execution, talent development, injuries, luck, officiating, weather, etc.).

These probabilities are getting a little out of hand, though, when you compare Michigan & OSU to the rest of the conference.

recruited both fairly hard. I would understand if we were late with offers as the staff chased national guys. If a kid is indifferent, then go with the first offer or most love. But we've been after both of them from the start.

Meyer's spiel of "we'll play for nat'l championships and I'll prepare you as well as the SEC" must work with some kids.

I simply meant that Meyer walks in with two NC rings and talks about winning championships. Hoke hasn't won any championships as a head coach. I'm not calling Hoke as a bad coach, nor am I arguing that Meyer is far and away a better coach. I'm simply arguing that, from the perspective of a 17 year old who wants to play football, get to the NFL and, presumably, to win things along the way, Meyer likely looks like a better bet.

I have thought about this in the sense that essentially every coach is basically selling their brand to potential recruits. The money question is which coach or which brand carries the day...is it the macro Dave Brandon "M", Brady Hoke's management level work, Greg Mattison's "I coached Ray Lewis" or the individual recruiter?

What carries the weight?...I suppose for each recruit it would be different. While Meyer has a couple championships his defensive coordinator was one Greg Mattison; he of the Ray Lewis connection.

At this point Meyer's brand might pull some recruits but, as in the Lawrence Marshall case, one wonders what role the recruiter played etc.

and they didn't crack his top 5. Not every kid buys into what Urban Meyer's selling. I think ND is more of a threat for McDowell and Drake Harris had us in his final group before he committed to Sparty. Relax, friend.

As of now, in these kids minds, St Urban can do no wrong. Coombs is selling fire and brimstone (see the YouTube video of him) and Urban has yet to lose. Once the bucks start losing some they should win, and it WILL happen this year, the real Meyer starts coming out and when we beat them a lot of these in-state prospects will see things much differently. Right now they are going for what's flashy...we will prevail

Bad news bears, no way to whitewash it. Can't keep on top if we can't even stay afloat in recruiting our own state. I give Meyer credit. He's targetting kids that aren't just good players, but the high-percentage targets we need. It's like a scorched earth campaign, burning the ground out from under us.
Man. I am not happy today.

Agreed, kids like Marshall are the ones you need to nail down, good regional recruits that form the base of the class and represent schools you go into a lot. If Urban is making inroads here, that is very bad especially when he can use Ohio peer pressure to help hold onto Ohio kids and there doesn't seem to be equivalent pressure here in MI. This is definitely not good.

I think people have been underestimating how hard Kerry Coombs has been recruiting Michigan. I don't ever remember OSU focusing this much on Michigan prospects. As someone else said, this is probably bad news for State, but it's obviously something Hoke will have to pay attention to.

No disrespect but he is just some dude with an informed opinion. I like what he offers as far as he seems to take himself serious, puts in the appropriate time, and doesn't let other people's rankings dissuade him from having his own value of an incoming player. That said, it isn't like he has come connection to the kids and can predict the future...

I'm...sure they would like to. That's not the kind of thing that's easily replicated, especially since, by all accounts, that wasn't a stage managed event. Especially since we aren't in on a lot of Michigan and Ohio kids, who formed the bulk of that event, I doubt we'll see the like of it again this year, if ever.

I wouldn't expect a huge windfall like last year but I'm sure a good local group could be assembled (Harris, Doles, McDowell, Lattimore, Booker, Berger, Weishar, Jones, Helm) with Ferns and Speight possibly attending.

Bball has PSU in 1 week and Illini in 2 weeks in AA which might be the plan.

He was a OSU lean. No doubt he's got some talent, but we can't get everyone. There will be others. Plus we'll have a small class next year. We already have 2 commits...gotta leave some drama for the latter months. I kid, I kid.

Sucks, but lots of time left. Let it all play out. I promise we get some Ohio talent to even things out.

Umm, I feel confident in saying something give or take 20 scholarships for 2014. That's not really small. We can grab best available and there is greater flexibility in what position numbers we can recruit.

Speedy DE/DL and WR seem to be our biggest needs. SS is another position that could use more size and speed, thus finding freaky athletic chaps would be a huge gain at those spots. I still think another QB would be nice, but I just don't see the staff going that route this year and maybe only annually recruiting one QB per class.

are the michigan players that went to tsio in the last TWELVE YEARS (give or take a couple I don't know about or can't remember). Urban taking Damon Webb from Cass Tech and this one from Southfield shouldn't happen. Jackson was the only one to my knowledge that had an offer from Michigan and went to OSU (subsequently he transferred to Wayne State). The others even hinted that they would have gone to Michigan had they been offered. This is what is disturbing. Let's hope G Mattison (and Wilcher) work their magic.

This is suprising. I don't think any of us should loose sleep over this, I mean the kid looks like a very solid player on film and no doubt would love to have him on the good side, but let the season play out. Does anyone think Ohio will go undefeated again? I don't. Perhaps their eyes will be opened.

Stuff like this means very little to me.At the end of the recruiting cycle Michigan is going to have 85 or so scholarship football players; just like every other team in the country. And then, and then.... attrition happens....Start all over again

85 football scholarships on the wall, take one down pass it around 84 football scholarships on the wall

84 football scholarships on the wall....

You lose out on Lawrence Marshall, god bless his buckeye soul, and next thing you know a kid blows up in Pinconning, making all the little sad faces excited at the prospect of the Piconning prodigy becoming the next Lawerence Taylor.

Are you serious? Do you think they have stopped recruiting because they had a couple good classes and now Ohio got a couple commits so they must have? This thread has turned into a meltdown thread and its quite comical.

Sounds like this isn't good, but this kid is a 2014 recruit and chances are Urban leaves Ohio for somewhere else before this kid plays a game for them. With our recruiting over the past couple of years, the OL and DL are probably going to be the strengths of our team, so missing out on onr DL recruit doesn't seem like the end of the world to me.

Nope. Hoke can't do it, michigan is his strength. We were lucky that Derrick Green, Henry Poggi, Patrick Kugler, Logan Tuley-Tillman, Mike McCray, Taco Charlton, Chris Fox, Jake Butt, Kyle Bosch and Ben Gedeon to name a few were from Michigan or this class would've really sucked. Hoke's inability to recruit michigan is going to be his downfall!!!

Michigan is in with comparable, or better national recruits. It's strange to see Ohio target Michigan kids at all, let alone so early, but we'll more than make up for it. Webb is an in-state top 5 prospect, no doubt, but not #1, and Marshall could stay in the top 10 when all is said and done, but Michigan can easily land the other 8, as well.

Question is should we recruit those other eight? We need to take the long view here and make sure everyone understands that over time the roster talent must increase and stay. Just taking the supposedly best in state players doesn't translate to wins. Nice to have core in state talent, but not completely essential to always have recruits that make a Det News list We need them on the national lists frankly.

The coaches seem to casting a wider net in 2014 and 2015. They are/were smart to build a team with Midwestern roots early, and now are going to snag some impact guys nationally. My epinion is that is a good strategy and has proven to work for us in the past, works for many programs as well.

It's important to win your home state, and keep your local pipelines open. Geography can often play the deciding part in a recruits commitment, and many national prospects stay home. Local kids are often much more likely to commit, or to be all in for the program. McDowell, Harris, Webb, Marshall, and Doles could all end up being elite talents, as well, but time will tell with the others.

Still, it's an interesting point, and it speaks to one of the reasons Urban landed these two recruits, in a way. Aside from them obviously favoring Ohio, now, it seems we weren't recruiting them heavily enough, either. Marshall, because it's early in the process, and there really isn't a need at WDE. If we take a WDE in 2014 they'll sit behind 4 talented others all vying to start in Taco, Ojemudia, and Beyer/Clark.

Webb, though, feels like more of a loss since we've always taken so many Cass Tech DB's, yet he seems like the first one in a long time to be truly elite, but since we have a shot at guys like Westphal, Peppers, Jackson, and Vincent we could end up with a handful of 5 star and top 100 DB's even without him.

Maybe it is just the old man in me talking, but UM and OSU have always been able to pick up some players from each other's backyards from time to time. It comes in waves, and while OSU has a couple of local pick-ups, Hoke will do the same in Ohio. Both schools will continue to recruit well both locally as well as across the country. Where the renewed recruiting prowess of both schools will hurt will be at the lesser-tier B1G schools like Illinois, MSU, and Iowa, who won't have as many opportunities to poach talent from OSU, UM, and ND when all three schools are bringing in the best talent. They will have to get more creative with their recruiting, and so far I haven't seen it.

Still, wish the kid well. If he winds up at OSU, then so be it. But NSD 2014 is a year away and things change.

360 days left in this recruiting cycle this is only as big of a deal as you choose to make it. Honestly I would rather have him steal the occasional kid from Michigan than put the walls around Ohio like tressel did. Home will be fine we have great recruiters and there is tons of talent out their. Meyer is gonna recruit and do it well no reason to get fired up this early.

The only two recruits who we seem to be way ahead on as a matter of record are Brian Mone, the Utah DT (who would seem to be a 250 type) and Doles, who probably isn't a 250 type guy (yet?) because of size. Maybe you add Corey Holmes to that list, because he grew up a Michigan fan, but then again, so did Marshall.

Of course, nobody knows who's really ahead for a lot of these kids. I don't think we were ahead for Bosh or Kugler (especially Kugler) before they dropped and dropped early.

Yep, forgot about Bars, but that's kind of unspoken. I mean, I don't recall ever hearing a quote where he said Michigan leads, and while his brother is here, he has two other brothers in other programs. It's just that he's visited here so often.

Westphal made the comment that Michigan is the standard he measures other schools by, and people seem to think we have a good chance with him. Peppers, they say, is more of a lonshot (kind of like Hand- in his top group, mentioned, but behind other schools, so the legends say)

IThe names I put up top (except for Holmes) were there because they've said Michigan leads. If you want people Michigan has a good chance with, Westphal and Bars are good additions, but you could add Scott and Cole as a package,.

I suppose, as other people are now pointing out, we could add Adoree Jackson tothe list. CB from CA with good offers, who's been making noise about being the next Charles Woodson, so maybe that's something.

He will rise rapidly after camps. Special player. Woodson comparison is always daunting, but maybe Jalen Ramsey in this year's class. Just more athletic than anybody he locks down on. That would be a big get.

Loss but I don't think his recruiting is over, and if it is, we'll just get another guy who is just as good, this is Michigan fergodsakes.....plus, haven't we taken WDE in the last couple of classes? We will get someone just as good, probably from Ohio.

Look - I didn't read this whole thread (it got very pathetic for a while) but to all of you Chicken Littles out there (and there are many) - chill the fuck out. Urban will get his guys and we'll get ours. Both teams will have a limited numbder of spots to fill, so a couple guys going one way or another is not big deal at this point. We liked Marshall, but we took good WDEs in the last 2 classes and we'll take a good one this year too.

I'm not saying we didn't want him anyway, because clearly the coaches did, but Lawrence Marshall is not a can't miss recruit who is going to change the fate of us and OSU because of this decision. He's a four star guy. We'll probably get a guy just as good, and OSU would have gotten a guy just as good if he came to us.

I really hope the coachig staff can turn it up nationally. I heard around that Hoke and staff didn't work as hard for Marshall as urban.. maybe it means they feel good about some other guys more. I mean WDE isn't a huge need for us and on top of that Marshall isn't a blue chip type of talent, good but not blue ship. Thinking with are depth at the position the staff feels it is better to focus on blue chips like Carter and Hand.

The state of MI will have some good 4 star talent in the coming years and hoke got to protect his state since dantonio is laying in the weeds waiting for recruits to come to him. Also this is not a big loss.

Meyer and OSU have alot of momentum with the 12-0 season, much like we did going 11-2. As long as we get 2 or all three of the in state Harris, McDowell and Doles I think we'll be in good shape. There is a long way to go until any of these kids sign their LOI. All we have to do is win on the field (9 or 10+ wins) and the recruiting will take care of itself.