A client was kind enough to send a photo of his upper back and neck that was cleared about 3 weeks ago (the photos are “hidden” somewhere in the millions of Hairtell threads).

I’m posting this photo for prospective electrolysis patients to see, and think about. With clearing off large areas of body hairs, what you see in this photo is common, expected and appropriate. There’s a lot going on in this photo and I won’t take the time to discuss all the “stuff” going on.

But, you will notice tiny areas of irritation, fast growing anagen hairs (amazing how FAST), and tiny plugs of what’s left of the dead follicles.

All of this clears up, of course, and the skin will eventually be perfect. However, those seeking electrolysis for permanent hair removal must consider that your post-treatment skin is not going to look very good for a few weeks thereafter.

This is a great client and I will show you what he looks like in a few months when all the new hairs have grown in. (At the start of the 2nd clearance most patients think I’m a fraud! And, that’s also expected.)

Electrolysis is NOT a “walk in the park,” but it is guaranteed to DELIVER permanent hair removal!

In a sense, electrolysis is like “the Big Bang!” Laser often takes a few years of repeated treatments to achieve the goal. Electrolysis is a “BIG BOMB,” but never takes more than 3 or 4 clearances over a period of, say, 9 - 10 months.

Yes, laser seems fast, but you must also consider the overall time the entire process takes: the ELAPSED time. Elapsed time? Electrolysis is faster!

If you look closely (and the lighting was perfect to show this), you will see that each "dead follicle" is a bit raised and the skin almost looks like it has "goose bumps," you know, when you get cold.

Here’s what’s happening. The follicle is now filled up with “wound collagen.” This initial mend is very rough and always causes a tiny mound to form. During the next several months, the body will completely replace the wound collagen with perfectly formed collagen … and the “bump” will completely disappear to skin level.

The guy is not showing this very well, but you might be able to detect some angiogenesis in each follicle (this is more difficult to spot on the back, but very easy to see on areas that have thin skin such as the fingers or toes.)

Thanks for sharing the realities of how bad the skin looks after treatments and clearances. I wish this part said was true for me, however:

"Electrolysis is a “BIG BOMB,” but never takes more than 3 or 4 clearances over a period of, say, 9 - 10 months."

I think this is misleading for people. I've had three clearances on my chin and cannot say the same results have happened. I am happy that they are becoming more spread out, but it will take longer than your expected amount of time.

Here’s another photo (same guy). I left this a bit larger file so you may zoom in to really have a good look-see.

The area is the upper back near the underarm area. There are a few things happening in this photo. I’ll let Jossie “have a go at this,” but those “pustules” you see are NOT pustules!

Hint: new anagen hairs, hyperpigmentation (PIH) near the underarm, sebaceous papules and a bit of residual inflammation. Can you spot more?

Yes, indeed, we can see dozens of small sebaceous papules that do not contain pus as someone who is not familiar with the normal progress in the body work might think. Unlike pustules that can leave marks, these little "pearls" disappear without trace. We can also see a couple of "tombstones", typical from the treatment in an area with a majority of hairs in telogen. We can see a small percentage of false regrowth (or new growth), ie hairs which could not be treated due to lack of a "pathfinder" (because exogen hair during first clearing). Hence, these hairs have appeared weeks later.However, what is most significant here is the high percentage of "kill rate". 100%? oh yeah.

This is something that pleases the eye, especially today, after working in a male chest previously treated by another colleague, without the slightest evidence that something has happened. Really unfortunate.

Note: The illustrations are from the book "Treatment Strategy for Electrology" by Michael Bono.

Looking closely at the photo, I think a few of the "tombstones" are actual "instant regrowth" (I spot 2 of these). Yes, I either missed the follicle or didn't deliver enough "juice." (I'll do those 2 hairs for free next time.)

I just noticed your post. Generally yes ... 18 months. However, a significant number of cases of female hair involves the dreaded "hormones."

If I woman is at, or passed, “menopause” I can clear the hair, but she will usually need one or two short treatments per year … with no end in sight.

And, this is soooooo frustrating for both the client and the electrologist. By contrast, what you see on your underarms is a “done deal.” Remove these and a hair will never grow in for the rest of your life … EVER!

Guys too, if they are young, often have not fully developed their body hair; so this can also be an on-going situation until it all grows in.

Not so with the SUPER hairy guys. These “Oh my God!” cases indicate that nearly all the body hairs have grown in, so results will be spectacular (and actually easy). Once gone, the hair will stay gone!

Seriously, my own frustration with WANTING to get women’s faces done fast has actually made me stop treating women’s faces altogether. Luckily we have a super electrologist in town that gets all my “face cases.”

I suppose I want results even more than the patient. The cases that drag on-and-on seem draconian, and I start to feel like I’m cheating people. When I hear on the phone, "The hairs have ALL grown back AGAIN," my heart sort of sinks. (The use of "all" REALLY gets me ... it feels like a knife in my stomach.)

Yep, these look like common papules. The interesting reality is there is no clear way to absolutely predict these, or other post-treatment manifestation as well. All of these disappear in every case, of course, because they are part of the normal healing process.

I think it’s wonderful and admirable … a “kiss” for Dee Dee … that we are showing clients the sometimes downside reality of electrolysis treatments. Sure, a nice perfect “before & after” will always get us new clients and make us look good. However, what people are looking for now, on the internet, is REAL unembellished reality of what they can expect from treatments.

Every now and then there will appear some post about “How Great Thou Art” from a client (or even a “selfie”). All of this literally makes me physically sick. I few times clients wanted to go on Hairtell to say, “How wonderful I am.” My reaction was … “Don’t you DARE ever do anything like that!” YUCK!

Further to the point: Those wonderful “before & after” shots of face-lifts and hair transplants? Sure, YES, you will look super … after the healing takes place. But seriously, a post-op face-lift patient (or hair transplant) looks like a character from a horror film. (I’m caring for one of Chapple’s face-lifts on Wednesday. Maybe I’ll take some photos if she will allow it? I mean, nobody will recognize her anyway "balloon face.")

I wish people would show EVERYTHING involved in every treatment. Actually, the miniscule post-treatment “stuff” that electrolysis causes is virtually nothing, compared to most other surgical procedures.

This “show me” direction is good for Hairtell. It’s going to keep me posting here and I sincerely believe MORE potential clients will jump-in, with the resulting effect: MORE people seeking electrolysis.

The internet generation is VERY savvy and is looking for STRAIGHT answers to their questions. Show it all, and I intend to continue doing this! Ever notice that posts with a real photo gets 10 times the readership. Wanna guess why?

I would LOVE to see a separate section created on Hairtell called “SHOW ME!” YEAH!

I appreciate the honesty, it is hard to hear that I could potentially be spending more and more money, and doing this longer than 18 months (potentially for life?). I just hope it is worth it in the end, and I don't end up still shaving like a man, with all that wasted $$, and with a face that looks worse than it ever did before treatments. I wonder how often that happens to women with "hormone" issues like you state.

I also super appreciate the straightforward honest goods that come from Michael.

I BELIEVE in electrolyisis ( and still do ) .Ive seen my sister's eyebrows done and and all the incredible work shown on this forum , but my honest experience so far backs what Michael describes.

I am not menopausal and my hormones are not out of wack and I can tell you that I have already spend MANY MANY hours and LOTS of money on just a small sideburn area of my face and it is still coming back for more zapping! And i dont really have that much hair. Ive seen far worse cases on this site !

Granted not all zappers out there are as pro as the ones on this board so that may be the reason, however the general truth seems to be that, especially if you are not CERTAIN you are seeing a VERY GOOD ELECTROLYSIST , ( and one may only discover the answer to that only AFTER much time and money has been spent) , it WILL be a long and costly job to do ! Just sayin!

PS. If it is possible for you, you could at least reduce your chances, by seeing one of the pros on this forum that do work on womens face ???

Edited by Danika (12/06/1309:06 PM)

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Female- Light skin, brown/blonde hair. LASER- over 1+yr. Pleasantly surprised with results. No future sessions. Need to live with/in sun. ELECTROLYSIS- Scammed by the one in my town. Whenever possible, while traveling out of town,I try to get electrolysis on face. Very Challenging overall due to lack of professionals available .Many treatments done on only a tiny area of my face yet there still seems to be alot of hair growing there. Seems an impossible dream at this point

Michael, I was so glad to see your papules picture. Honestly, I had NEVER had this kind of reaction on a client before (upper arms) , but then again, not many women of East Indian decent have requested hair removal in this area. It is usually face, neck and trunk that we tackle. I knew this was not infection (pustules) as it was waxy in appearance. So, I reasoned with my client that this was coming from the sebaceous gland, thinking the electrolysis overexcited the gland in the healing process. There were some very, very thin hairs mixed in with some of the bumps, but she did have laser reduction on her upper arms prior to electrolysis and I reasoned that the laser made the hair too thin and weak to push through the skin.

All this was so distressing to her. First, the laser stimulated more hair to grow on the places she had treated and then the electrolysis caused these waxy bumps that persisted for longer than I predicted.

On a happier note, she did get a substantial refund back from her laser treatments. The place of business was very cooperative. Perhaps all $8,000? She can speak to that if she adds to this thread.

I alerted her to your pictures , Michael. She offered to come on Hairtell to add to this thread and I have encouraged her to do so. She is so relieved to see your pictures. Thank you so much!

Yep, these papules are not all that common. I don’t see them that often either … but, when I see something new or unusual I get excited about it. (How sad really, a person that gets excited over a “pimple!” I need counseling. Oh, I had it ... didn't work!)

Usually I see these papules on guys with pretty "oily" skin ... I suppose the excess sebum mixes with and “adheres to” the desquamated (destroyed) follicle material that is emerging from the follicle. Maybe the excess sebum acts like glue keeping the normal exfoliating stuff from being easily sloughed off. As the epidermis immediately covers the opening ... well, there it is: that little "pearl of a papule." That’s my take on it anyway. Dr. Chapple thinks that's the deal too.

I’m super glad I could help, as y'all can imagine. We zapperettes and zapperinis “live for” helping our “kids” get to their goal of total freedom from HAIR!

Actually right now you are (or should be) at the "tipping point." You have been consistent with treatments, and right now you should be seeing a dramatic reduction in hair on your face. I mean, so impressive that, well, “cartwheels” are in order. (The general “cartwheel period” is between 6 - 9 months after starting treatments.)

I did a graph that shows a “representative face case,” but I’ll let Jossie post it, if she wants to ... because I’m TOO LAZY! It’s a common “bell curve” … my favorites. (Seems like everything ends up being a bell curve; except the economy!)

With that many hours, you must have had an extensive case … I’m keeping my fingers crossed for you (and my eyes too, which is getting easier these days as I get as old as dirt). Of course, men with an actual beard would not be at the “cartwheel stage” just yet. Talk about “draconian!”

I did a graph that shows a “representative face case,” but I’ll let Jossie post it, if she wants to ... because I’m TOO LAZY! It’s a common “bell curve” … my favorites. (Seems like everything ends up being a bell curve; except the economy!)

Not only Jossie wants, but she is delighted...

I never tire of saying thanks for writing your wonderful books, Michael. They have the power to leave us wanting MORE, and MORE, and MORE.

I absolutely apologise in advance for interrupting this thread, but if you could reply to my private message Jossie, that would be great, just so we can agree on the exact dates and I can book my flights. They are getting more expensive!

If the person got more total time up front, they would get to First Clearance faster. After that, more frequent visits would increase the amount of hair free time, as each Full Clearance would bring about new hair free time. Soon one would have achieved Final Clearance, and would not need more work to be done. In this way, for some people, more time, more visits may equal being done faster. Obviously, if the treatment area is one you can clear each and every time from the beginning, one would not find any large increase in finish time by having more frequent treatment, but one would have shorter treatments, and more hair free time.

(This is the type of question that SeanaTG was really good at answering so I did not have to until someone convinced her to stop answering questions in the "pro section")

Ok what James says is true. I am one of those people, who early on decided to get into DIY and get as much of that hair as was humanly possible. I have a large area to work on and I'm not sure I quite "keep up " with it because of the slowness of the DIY process and also the number of hours I dedicate to others in the same boat, however I put in a LOT of hours early on to establish just that. It slowly got to the point I had cleared most areas on my neck and face at least once and was mostly getting regrowth.I as I write this havent shaved my face at all, in 3-4 months. For a transwoman this means SERIOUS dysphoria, and a lot of hiding in my house and going out as little a possible. But slowly, I started to realize despite having to do additional clearances about every week or so on all areas, that most of the hair wasnt visible to those around me. It was thinner, less dense, and what might once have been a full beard look began to be more slight shadow, and then even less. I had to get into serious magnification to even see the hairs to remove them myself. This is the utopia when it comes to hair removal, when you can get to that point that others arent aware of it.( even if the feel of those tiny little regrowth hairs under your finger makes YOU hyper aware of them) This is the process of electrolysis. You will never get all the hair at once. There will always be regrowth. But it becomes less and less over time until eventually, and I have over a year before I reach this point, there just isnt any left.

It's not practical for someone paying an electrologist to do work with the frequency that I do. Even those I work on, I am lucky to get 4-5 hours with each a week. It just takes longer to establish that first clearance, then maintain after that. The fner hairs drive you batty! But stick with it, and they do go away.I dont know many electrologists that work to do that clearance in such a short period. People like Michael, or Jossie , that do a whole face in such periods just dont happen everday, there are peoples costs to consider, and just scheduling such a venture isnt all that practical. It's not every electrologist that can work for 6-8 hours strait a day for for a week.Can you imagine the eye strain?Electrolysis is precise work. But the higher the frequency and number of hours you can put in, makes a huge difference. I dont know of anyone who can walk outside and still get "MISS or Maam" in just 3-4 months. It doesnt happen. But it slowly is for me.

Whenever the work allows you to choose the wait and clear strategy. The intervals between clearances can not be shortened for one simple reason , there is not enough hair to work with.

Thicker hairs , which grow longer , and are more pigmented are the first which will be treated in the first clearance . The rest will take longer to come to the surface so that they can be removed. We can not work on hairs that have not emerged to the surface, and the finer they are, the more time they will need to appear.

These hairs are collected in 3 and a half hours working on the chest and stomach of a man. After a couple of weeks we will see some new growth , but not really worth doing 2000 kilometers to treat this small percentage if after about 3 months , we will have the percentage needed to make the second clearance worthwhile.

Seana , for me there is no difference between working with a single client for 6 hours a day, or work with 6 different clients in one-hour sessions . Personally I prefer the first, because I did not accumulate delay with the appointment of the following clients . Less stress, more quality of life... if it exists.

As one of the people who does work at fast first clearances, my hat is completely off to you Josefa. You , and those few like you, are the exception. Many/most electrologists usually opt for a "so many hours a week" approach until it's all gone. Not many will condense the work into such a short time frame. That you are able to pull that off, makes you exceptional and the reason you have a huge waiting list.

I have one bump like the ones Dee posted. I'm also of Indian descent, which is why I'm curious as to whether the client recovered.

Did her bumps go away with time? This bump stands out because my skin is smooth. It looks like a tiny hypertrophic scar almost..

I'm currently @week 6 post-treatment.

Thanks for the memory lane LDLD!

One thing you will notice about Dee's picture is that there is several such bumps, not just one. This is to be expected, if you repeat the same process on different parts of the skin, all things being equal, you can expect the same reaction, does that sound about right? So, why would you get just ONE bump, and all the other insertions dont show such a manifestation? What's different about that PARTICULAR follicle that is not happening anywhere else?

I'm reminded of 3-4 years ago when I did laser for the very first time. I got several eruptions on the skin , red splotches that lasted for weeks, but ONE in particular became inflamed and resulted in such a small skin mark. It was exactly the same color as the surrounding skin, or was until I played with it because I was bothered by the ONE grey hair growing on that cheek right in the middle of it . I hadnt noticed it at all before laser.

Well it's roughly 4 years later and I still have that small bump in exactly the same place. It's darkened somewhat since that time but has not gone away. It also, has not changed in size,and has maintained exactly the same shape. This is a good thing. So, what is it?

It's a mole. I hadnt noticed it prior because the colour was the same as the surrounding skin ( and there was all that hair in the way), but years later, I can definitively tell you that that is what it is. Not "scarring " of any kind, just a previously un-noticed skin abnormality.

I suspect your "one bump" might be the same thing, though, as always pictures could tell several of the wound experts here a whole lot more.