Agree. The trick will be to figure out ways to help make other products bridge the holes in the line-ups. I can't picture a Promise RAID on my desktop below my iMac when it comes to storage (due to noise more than anything). However, I'm starting to think that is the generally rational approach to the situation. Not much sense in having an internal (high-end) sound card for audio pros if you can have a more effective external solution that doesn't create too much chaos. Almost all I/O type needs can be done externally.

I do hope they can figure out a way to have dual power supplies in whatever they use as a replacement-- something that can bridge from the server room to the desktop.

What's really missing in non-pro product lines isn't internal expansion capability, since Thundebolt takes care of that.
What is missing is redundancy and high-end capabilities:
12+ CPU cores
ECC RAM
Rack mountable for collocation solutions
High-end graphics
Many of these things can't be achieved by macMini due to the thermal envelope, space or chipset constraints.
Mac OS X Server also grows more and more toy-like while Apple brags about iPads enterprise adoption. Does Apple in the future plan to be an MS VAR and Systems Integrator, selling Windows Server Backoffice solutions for corporate iPad users, or will they still have a vision for an end-to-end integrated ecosystem?

Laptops fail as the computer of choice for many finance/science professionals- not everyone is an "artiste". The lack of a number pad in a laptop keeps us clamoring for the new iMac. For portability an iPad is the new goto for us- no longer chained to a clam case are we.

I understand portability, but what I don't get is data entry. Are you entering data or merely using the iPad to call up data and/or for "show and tell" demos? Thanks.

They even canned the Macbook. We now have the Air instead with the iPad taking care of any low end laptop wannabees.

Lemon Bon Bon.

Just as Tim Cook simplified things by calling the new iPad 'the new iPad' instead of calling it the iPad 3, I predict a single line-up of notebooks from Apple all called 'the new MacBook'. Models will be distinguished by screen size and processor power.

11"
13"
15"
and possibly a 17"

Top of the line models in each size category will be MacBook pro equivalents. All will get hi res screens.

For the 11", I expect a standard hard disk size of 128 GB SSD with 256 GB offered as an option.
For the 13", i expect a standard 256 GB SSD with 500 GB offered as an option.
For the 15" and 17" I expect a standard 500 GB SSD with 1 TB offered as an option.

It may be that hybrid SSD-HDD drives are offered as an option. But I see these as a step backwards that exists only because SSD prices remain high. I expect Apple will do everything possible to drive wider use of SSDs in laptops.

It may give us SSDs at near cost price to kill off spinning platters for good.

<snip>
It may give us SSDs at near cost price to kill off spinning platters for good.

<snip>

Ahhhhh...NO! Apple never sells anything "at near cost price". If you should have learned anything about Apple, Inc., it is that margins are what it is about. Not service, not cutting edge technology, but margins. If some of the other stuff is necessary to keep sales up, so be it, but it is all about margins.

Why do you think the aftermarket installation of SSDs is thriving? Apple charges much too much for their SSDs (and RAM for that matter, although its pricing is down from obscene to merely outrageous these days).

I'd like to see a 'Big Mac' Mini. Double whopper. If you stacked two Minis one on top of the other...you'd have 8 cores. Using Thunderbolt as the bridge to use one of the chips as co-processor? Room for two HDs etc. (Ivy bridge will run super cool.) People are using them as servers.

Lemon Bon Bon.

Hey there Lemon Bon Bon~! I'm still out here reading waiting and watching... Trying to take it all in... Yes I started out wanting a Mac Pro but as time has went on I have pretty much ruled it out first of all it would be overkill for me and second it does seem like a step in the other direction of where the industry is going... The power of the iMac and Mac Mini is amazing and in a much smaller package plus a much smaller price tag. Like you I dont care for laptops I have had a stack of them and didnt like any of them. I have an iPad2 that will do all that I need to do away from the house in a much more convenient package. But back to the subject; I am swaying between the iMac and the Mac Mini and being this late in the game unless a rediculously low sale comes around I'll probably wait and get the new model. What I am wondering about was about your comment above; I was thinking about this the other day, while I am not as tech savy as many here I cant see why stacking a couple Mac Mini's somehow linking them together for double everything wouldn't work? I'm sure there is something I dont understand but it is a great thought. a pair of new Ivy bridge Mac Mini's linked together would form one awesome "BigMacMini" Is it doable

What you say makes sense, but it's only your opinion from your point of view. Laptops are non-starters for all kinds of professionals for instance.

I would say there are more dilettantes' with laptops who are kind of "pretending to be professionals" than there are with desktops. What the MacBook Air's and the iPad revolution has taught us us is that large numbers of folks who tote laptops around all day don't actually need them at all and really only need access to email and some documents. The majority of the "real" pros and the "real" creators, still use desktops IMO.

When it comes down to getting inside your machine for upgrades, the average user just needs to throw in a stick of RAM it's true, but the average user isn't a "pro" user. Pro users often need serious graphics and hard drive space for starters. An iMac just doesn't do it. Also, most Mac Pros have a heat envelope that's right on the line. The fancy graphics cards we use in them die frequently from heat death and have to be replaced every couple of years usually. The Mac Pro itself lasts approximately ten to twelve years, far longer than any other so one also has to upgrade the hard disks at least two or three times during it's life.

There is a definite need for all the upgrade possibilities and capabilities of the Mac Pro. Any alternative or replacement would have to be similarly configurable.

Hey there Lemon Bon Bon~! I'm still out here reading waiting and watching... Trying to take it all in... Yes I started out wanting a Mac Pro but as time has went on I have pretty much ruled it out first of all it would be overkill for me and second it does seem like a step in the other direction of where the industry is going... The power of the iMac and Mac Mini is amazing and in a much smaller package plus a much smaller price tag. Like you I dont care for laptops I have had a stack of them and didnt like any of them. I have an iPad2 that will do all that I need to do away from the house in a much more convenient package. But back to the subject; I am swaying between the iMac and the Mac Mini and being this late in the game unless a rediculously low sale comes around I'll probably wait and get the new model. What I am wondering about was about your comment above; I was thinking about this the other day, while I am not as tech savy as many here I cant see why stacking a couple Mac Mini's somehow linking them together for double everything wouldn't work? I'm sure there is something I dont understand but it is a great thought. a pair of new Ivy bridge Mac Mini's linked together would form one awesome "BigMacMini" Is it doable

I have seen some people doing that and some who have an integrated keyboard/case to put the iPad in. It just seemed as though you wind up with a package that is about the same as a MacBook Air, although you do have the option to not carry the keyboard when you don't think you will need it.

The Apple Bluetooth keyboard is nice enough, but the batteries in it make it a bit thick.

I have seen some people doing that and some who have an integrated keyboard/case to put the iPad in. It just seemed as though you wind up with a package that is about the same as a MacBook Air, although you do have the option to not carry the keyboard when you don't think you will need it.

The Apple Bluetooth keyboard is nice enough, but the batteries in it make it a bit thick.

Thanks.

A MacBook Air connected to a ThunderBolt display is about the same as an iMac.

Hey there Lemon Bon Bon~! I'm still out here reading waiting and watching... Trying to take it all in... Yes I started out wanting a Mac Pro but as time has went on I have pretty much ruled it out first of all it would be overkill for me and second it does seem like a step in the other direction of where the industry is going... The power of the iMac and Mac Mini is amazing and in a much smaller package plus a much smaller price tag. Like you I dont care for laptops I have had a stack of them and didnt like any of them. I have an iPad2 that will do all that I need to do away from the house in a much more convenient package. But back to the subject; I am swaying between the iMac and the Mac Mini and being this late in the game unless a rediculously low sale comes around I'll probably wait and get the new model. What I am wondering about was about your comment above; I was thinking about this the other day, while I am not as tech savy as many here I cant see why stacking a couple Mac Mini's somehow linking them together for double everything wouldn't work? I'm sure there is something I dont understand but it is a great thought. a pair of new Ivy bridge Mac Mini's linked together would form one awesome "BigMacMini" Is it doable

Hmm. I have heard of artists keeping their old rigs along with their newer ones and over time they have a mini render farm. I've read interviews where they talk about doing it. Many hands light work on all that.

I think you need additional 'node' render licenses with some 3D software. And there's how you link the machines up to enable each machine to do it's share of the render and then put back it back together.

I've never done it myself, so I can't give an accurate technical description.

At the very least. If you had 4 entry Mac Minis, you have 8 cores there. But it's the linking them together. Thunderbolt can either carry compute data or it can't?

Somebody more technical than me could outline/explain how to create a small render farm process eg for a 3D artist. It is of some interest to me. I'd like the notion of having a top end iMac as my base machine and adding a couple of i7 Minis over time to help with the 3D render workload.

That's one example.

X-Grid was oft talked about excitedly several years back. One poster mentioned it needs at least 3 Macs to work...

*thinks. Anybody remember that Tau Ceti space search thing where compute resources can be given via the host machines. Heck, even remote machine/virus have been known to steel computer cycles from a PC machine?

I'm sure someone knows more about this stuff than me. Distributed computing does interest me.

It's not a mainstream idea yet...but maybe that's where someone like Apple could come in.

Sure, the iOS cross pollination eco system going into Mountain Lion is nice but I'd like some other substantial and interesting ideas for better performance like the above to be looked into with OSX.

Lemon Bon Bon.

You know, for a company that specializes in the video-graphics market, you'd think that they would offer top-of-the-line GPUs...

Hmm. I have heard of artists keeping their old rigs along with their newer ones and over time they have a mini render farm. I've read interviews where they talk about doing it. Many hands light work on all that.

I think you need additional 'node' render licenses with some 3D software. And there's how you link the machines up to enable each machine to do it's share of the render and then put back it back together.

I've never done it myself, so I can't give an accurate technical description.

At the very least. If you had 4 entry Mac Minis, you have 8 cores there. But it's the linking them together. Thunderbolt can either carry compute data or it can't?

Somebody more technical than me could outline/explain how to create a small render farm process eg for a 3D artist. It is of some interest to me. I'd like the notion of having a top end iMac as my base machine and adding a couple of i7 Minis over time to help with the 3D render workload.

That's one example.

X-Grid was oft talked about excitedly several years back. One poster mentioned it needs at least 3 Macs to work...

*thinks. Anybody remember that Tau Ceti space search thing where compute resources can be given via the host machines. Heck, even remote machine/virus have been known to steel computer cycles from a PC machine?

I'm sure someone knows more about this stuff than me. Distributed computing does interest me.

It's not a mainstream idea yet...but maybe that's where someone like Apple could come in.

Sure, the iOS cross pollination eco system going into Mountain Lion is nice but I'd like some other substantial and interesting ideas for better performance like the above to be looked into with OSX.

Lemon Bon Bon.

You use Ethernet or Wi-Fi. I think the bigger implications that a lot of folks seem not to acknowledge is iOS devices eventually making use of Xgrid. Why not render video faster if you have a few mobile devices or Apple TVs on the home network, or logged into iCloud for that matter...

You use Ethernet or Wi-Fi. I think the bigger implications that a lot of folks seem not to acknowledge is iOS devices eventually making use of Xgrid. Why not render video faster if you have a few mobile devices or Apple TVs on the home network, or logged into iCloud for that matter...

So you could use Apple's wireless tech' to parcel up info using X-Grid installed on 3 wireless machines?

Quote:

Clients and agents automatically discover the controller using Bonjour, OS Xs built-in service discovery protocol. System administrators can specify controllers manually and limit the use of the cluster based on LDAP- and Kerberos-based authentication and credentials.

Hmm. I have heard of artists keeping their old rigs along with their newer ones and over time they have a mini render farm. I've read interviews where they talk about doing it. Many hands light work on all that.

I think you need additional 'node' render licenses with some 3D software. And there's how you link the machines up to enable each machine to do it's share of the render and then put back it back together.

I've never done it myself, so I can't give an accurate technical description.

At the very least. If you had 4 entry Mac Minis, you have 8 cores there. But it's the linking them together. Thunderbolt can either carry compute data or it can't?

Somebody more technical than me could outline/explain how to create a small render farm process eg for a 3D artist. It is of some interest to me. I'd like the notion of having a top end iMac as my base machine and adding a couple of i7 Minis over time to help with the 3D render workload.

That's one example.

X-Grid was oft talked about excitedly several years back. One poster mentioned it needs at least 3 Macs to work...

*thinks. Anybody remember that Tau Ceti space search thing where compute resources can be given via the host machines. Heck, even remote machine/virus have been known to steel computer cycles from a PC machine?

I'm sure someone knows more about this stuff than me. Distributed computing does interest me.

It's not a mainstream idea yet...but maybe that's where someone like Apple could come in.

Sure, the iOS cross pollination eco system going into Mountain Lion is nice but I'd like some other substantial and interesting ideas for better performance like the above to be looked into with OSX.

iOS devices will exceed the power of Macs in a relatively short amount of time. With the amount of iPads being sold, distributed computing will allow us to handle some very intensive rendering and computation. This could also extend to iCloud, where users could opt-in to allow other people's devices to assist in tasks as well. This of course comes into play after battery life and bandwidth issues have been addressed.

Hmm. I have heard of artists keeping their old rigs along with their newer ones and over time they have a mini render farm. I've read interviews where they talk about doing it. Many hands light work on all that.

I think you need additional 'node' render licenses with some 3D software. And there's how you link the machines up to enable each machine to do it's share of the render and then put back it back together.

I've never done it myself, so I can't give an accurate technical description.

At the very least. If you had 4 entry Mac Minis, you have 8 cores there. But it's the linking them together. Thunderbolt can either carry compute data or it can't?

Somebody more technical than me could outline/explain how to create a small render farm process eg for a 3D artist. It is of some interest to me. I'd like the notion of having a top end iMac as my base machine and adding a couple of i7 Minis over time to help with the 3D render workload.

That's one example.

X-Grid was oft talked about excitedly several years back. One poster mentioned it needs at least 3 Macs to work...

*thinks. Anybody remember that Tau Ceti space search thing where compute resources can be given via the host machines. Heck, even remote machine/virus have been known to steel computer cycles from a PC machine?

I'm sure someone knows more about this stuff than me. Distributed computing does interest me.

It's not a mainstream idea yet...but maybe that's where someone like Apple could come in.

Sure, the iOS cross pollination eco system going into Mountain Lion is nice but I'd like some other substantial and interesting ideas for better performance like the above to be looked into with OSX.

Lemon Bon Bon.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Slang4Art

iOS devices will exceed the power of Macs in a relatively short amount of time. With the amount of iPads being sold, distributed computing will allow us to handle some very intensive rendering and computation. This could also extend to iCloud, where users could opt-in to allow other people's devices to assist in tasks as well. This of course comes into play after battery life and bandwidth issues have been addressed.

Thanks for all this great food for thought! I've got a lot more to consider now. I suppose it seems it is possible but then I dont know how many problems I may run into with the Workload / workflow and if it would all be worth the effort at this time... I have a lot of research and studying to do on this. Thanks again for all the help and resources!

Apple could bundle Final Cut X with top end iMacs to keep some of the Pro's happy.

Except that it wouldn't be enough people to matter. When it comes to creative professionals, performance is what it boils down to at the end of the day. If your computer is choking on renders, you get a new computer. If you're already using the best machine in the lineup, you switch to another hardware platform.

What matters is the ability to complete the necessary tasks in a reasonable timeframe delivering the results clients demand.

If you have a drop-dead day and time to deliver a project, and a client comes back with a note at the 11th hour, you need to be able to implement that change in as little time as possible. Your career literally depends on it. No one cares about any excuses you may have. You have a problem, and you're expected to fix it within the time allotted. If you fail, you are not hired again. Friends of the client no longer consider hiring you. End of story.

"Among those resellers reflecting backorder status on some of the current 15-inch MacBook Pros is J&amp;R, which is now sold out of both the model, which is listed as "out of stock," and the variety, which is currently advertised as "on order.""

Well, they're both back in stock with immediate shipping.

This article needs some updating, or maybe it should be deleted outright.

I think there should be no event. They should just take the store offline tomorrow and update the iMacs silently with a slimmer design and no optical drive. Possibly update the MBPs too but I think the MBPs should wait until WWDC in 6 weeks to merge the line.

Originally Posted by Zeusisme
Highly unlikely ,, if Apple got a new line of product for sure they will announce it and expect people to give a pre order at the least.

No, that's not how it works. With computers, they come out the day of announcement. There's zero point in announcing before they're ready and giving pre-orders.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marvin
I think there should be no event. They should just take the store offline tomorrow and update the iMacs silently with a slimmer design and no optical drive. Possibly update the MBPs too but I think the MBPs should wait until WWDC in 6 weeks to merge the line.

Wait, are those chips out?! I thought just the laptop ones were out. And I agree that there's no way they'd release the new MacBook Pro (equivalents) without an event, given they (should be) getting a redesign. And then they'd need to wait on the MacBook Air because, hey, if they're merging the lines, it's pretty telling otherwise…

.... And I agree that there's no way they'd release the new MacBook Pro (equivalents) without an event, given they (should be) getting a redesign. And then they'd need to wait on the MacBook Air because, hey, if they're merging the lines, it's pretty telling otherwise…

For a redesign, Apple would hold an event. However, the new models would be available at the Apple Store on the day of the event.

"the firm has said compute performance will see minimal gains as it has spent its 'silicon budget' on improving graphics"

Of course, the initial benchmarks of Ivy Bridge could have been done using the IGP. With a dedicated GPU, the CPU might be able to ramp up higher. No more than 20% though. It should run cooler at least though, which does help when it's positioned behind a very expensive display.

The funny thing about Intel is that they spend so much resources on the GPUs and still end up in the same ballpark as last year's low-end dedicated GPUs. Eventually it won't matter though. The HD 4000 is the first GPU I would give up a dedicated GPU for. This year's equivalent dedicated GPUs will still be about 50-100% faster though.

Getting rid of a 27" monitor and every other part every time you need a CPU or GPU upgrade? No workstation graphics cards or ECC memory? It would work for some, not for everyone. Depends on what you mean by "developer" I guess, for someone tinkering with iOS development of course any modern machine would do, but development can mean much more than that.

The problem is the value proposition of the Pro box. Unless you can fill it with lots of parts before it goes obsolete you're paying a lot of money for air. The top of the iMac line (before options) is just under $2000, with 27" screen, 3.1GHz quad-core Core i5, 4GiB RAM, AMD Radeon HD 6970M with 1GiB, and 1TB drive. The Pro starts $500 more with less RAM and quad core Nehalem, which should be faster than the Core i5. I don't know enough about current graphics chipsets though I assume the Pro starts ahead of the top iMac (it should). But then you need another GB of RAM and a screen before you're ahead on all fronts ($999 for an Apple 17" screen).

You only need a box like this if you need to fill it with a lot of parts.

The real gap in the range is not between the Pro and the iMac, it's between the Pro and the mini. The most expensive mini is 40% of the price of the least expensive Pro.

Is Apples very conservative guidance a sign that laptops won't come till June. For that matter maybe no new machines till June?

I hope not. Everyone has been eagerly anticipating new Mac laptops for some time.

I would have bought a Sandy Bridge 13" MacBook Air in a heartbeat last year when it was launched - if it had come with a 1 GB or even a 500 GB SSD drive. But 256 GB simply wasn't enough. So I decided to wait for new MacBook Pros, especially when I heard they were coming with thinner Air-type enclosures. I thought they'd arrive in March. That slipped to April. Now it looks like June.

I am now thinking that the time to upgrade will be after Mountain Lion gets launched. i guess the longer Apple waits, the more likely it will be that Apple launches new machines with retina-type displays. That would be worth waiting for.

Is Apples very conservative guidance a sign that laptops won't come till June. For that matter maybe no new machines till June?

I hope not. Everyone has been eagerly anticipating new Mac laptops for some time.

That is true but that is also because of the Ivy Bridge hype. For Apple Ivy Bridge may not even be a key element of the new machines. Contrary to the opinion of many Apple isn't tied to Intels release schedule. In this case it just seems like Apples guidance amounts to saying: no significant hardware releases this quarter.

Quote:

I would have bought a Sandy Bridge 13" MacBook Air in a heartbeat last year when it was launched - if it had come with a 1 GB or even a 500 GB SSD drive. But 256 GB simply wasn't enough.

That SSD problem has kept many off the AIR platform.

Quote:

So I decided to wait for new MacBook Pros, especially when I heard they were coming with thinner Air-type enclosures. I thought they'd arrive in March. That slipped to April. Now it looks like June.

Well I'm not sure what the hold up is now. It looks like they only have chips suitable for the 15" & 17" MBPs maybe that isn't good enough for a launch. Knowing Intel it could also be driver issues.

Quote:

I am now thinking that the time to upgrade will be after Mountain Lion gets launched.

You might be talking October then! By that time we might see an October / November refresh of the laptops.

Quote:

i guess the longer Apple waits, the more likely it will be that Apple launches new machines with retina-type displays. That would be worth waiting for.

This seems like a likely explanation for a wait on new MBPs. The more time that passes without a release the more you have to wonder about what Apple is waiting on. Retina seems like a real possible cause for a drawn out delay.

Quote:

New 13" or 15" MBP. I can't decide.

As old as it is I really like my 15" MBP. However now that I'm a heavy iPad user I'm not sure that another portable is even in the cards. The fact is on the desktop a larger screen makes more sense and desktop machines are far more serviceable. My problem of course is getting Apple to make the right desktop platform. It might come down to another laptop being the best possible solution, in that case I'd go with a 15" or larger machine.

I would have bought a Sandy Bridge 13" MacBook Air in a heartbeat last year when it was launched - if it had come with a 1 GB or even a 500 GB SSD drive. But 256 GB simply wasn't enough.

That SSD problem has kept many off the AIR platform.

Interestingly, Intel are reported to be pressing the hard drive manufacturers to come up with an ultra-thin hybrid for use in new thin PC laptops intended to compete with the MBA. It supposedly will have much of the performance of a SSD, but with a larger storage capacity than is typical of the MBA and at a price which will allow the new PC laptops to have a competitive price point.

Thanks for all this great food for thought! I've got a lot more to consider now. I suppose it seems it is possible but then I dont know how many problems I may run into with the Workload / workflow and if it would all be worth the effort at this time... I have a lot of research and studying to do on this. Thanks again for all the help and resources!

Nope! I've done a lot of research and thinking... and these AIO's and inclosed small units are just not for me. I should have stuck with my first thoughts when I started search on this forum. I know deep down what I would be happy with and what I would not, everyone is wired differently and has different needs and atittudes about things. Not to dis anyone elses ideas which are good for them but these machines are not for me. I would never be happy with one no matter how it performed. Peace :-)

PS. Smiley's not working for me... only the laughing one since the upgrade ? may be all the firewalls and tracking blockers I have running. It's blocking 6 on this page right now through Abine