Lore & Language Links

LORE & LANGUAGE LINKS

Timeline of the history of Middle-earth (geospatial timeline and chronology of events in Tolkien's works, including the Hobbit, the Lord of the Rings and the Silmarillion. Click on events to show them on the map):http://lotrproject.com/timeline/#zoo...3.5&layers=BTT

The Council of Elrond (resource site offering a variety of features based on the creative works of J.R.R. Tolkien.. images, forum, roleplaying, encyclopedia, etc.):http://www.councilofelrond.com/

The Encyclopedia of Arda (an illustrated hypertext encyclopedia of Tolkien's realms and peoples):http://www.glyphweb.com/arda/default.asp
The Tolkien Meta-FAQ (a unified index to several major lists of Frequently Asked Questions about J.R.R. Tolkien and his "subcreated" world of Middle-earth, all based on scholarship from the Tolkien newsgroups on Usenet):http://tolkien.slimy.com/
The Tolkien Society (a registered charity, literary society, and worldwide fan club based in England and Wales and devoted to promoting the life and works of J.R.R. Tolkien - education, events, etc.):http://www.tolkiensociety.org/

The Age of the Ring (a Lord of the Rings UK based fan site dedicated to J.R.R Tolkien and the cinematic Lord of the Rings trilogy, directed by Peter Jackson for New Line Cinema):http://www.ageofthering.com/index.php

Elvenesse (..a site dedicated to the world of JRR Tolkien's elves.. a collection of news and articles on all things elvish, The Silmarillion, The Hobbit, and The Lord of the Rings, as well as Peter Jackson's movie renditions of the books):http://www.elvenesse.net/index.php

The Silmarillion Writers' Guild (founded in 2005 in hopes of creating a single online home for Silmarillion fans, authors, and artists.. an open and accessible group welcoming Tolkien fans from all over the world and web to join in discussing and creating based on his fictional world.. in addition to a writing archive, there is a reference library, discussion group, and LiveJournal community to keep Silmarillion fans connected):http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/index.php
Middle-Earth Encyclopedia (comprehensive guide to Middle-Earth and the rest of the creations of J.R.R. Tolkien.. People, Cultures, Places, Objects, Beasts, and Times in Tolkien's writing; search engine):http://middle-earthencyclopedia.weebly.com/index.html
The Thain's Book (an encyclopedia of Middle-earth and Numenor - people, places, creatures, things, and events in The Hobbit, The Lord of the Rings and other writings by J.R.R. Tolkien.. entries include descriptions, histories, important dates, genealogies, etymologies, illustrations, sources and cross-references; The Chronology of Middle-earth and Numenor is a timeline of events in the First, Second, Third, and Fourth Ages including a day-by-day breakdown of events during the War of the Ring, search engine also):http://thainsbook.net/index.html
Annals of Arda (Bookstores/Books, Music, Links):http://www.annalsofarda.dk/
Tara's Sindarin Phrasebook (information about the Elves of Middle-earth and their language - The Elves, Sindarin ~ the spoken language of the Elves of Middle-earth, Tengwar ~ the writing of the Elves, Translations, Writings, Songs):http://tara.istad.org/
The Elvish Library (a compendium of various sites on the internet concerning J.R.R. Tolkien's Elvish languages; Sindarin and Q(u)enya.. including articles (Introduction to Elvish, for example)):http://www.councilofelrond.com/membe...eth/index.html

Timeline of Arda (Events outside of time, Arda events, Valian years, Years of the Lamps, Years of the Trees, First Age, Years of the Sun in the First Age, Second Age, Third Age, "The Great Years", Fourth Age; Battles: First Age - Years of the Trees, Years of the Sun, Second Age, Third Age - War of the Ring, Other conflicts during the War of the Ring, End of the world; Other timelines of interest):http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_Arda
History of Arda (In J. R. R. Tolkien's legendarium, the history of the fictional universe of Eä began when the Ainur entered Arda, following the creation events in the Ainulindalë and long ages of labour throughout Eä, the universe. Time from that point was measured using Valian Years, though the subsequent history of Arda was divided into three time periods using different years, known as the Years of the Lamps, the Years of the Trees and the Years of the Sun. A separate, overlapping chronology divides the history into 'Ages of the Children of Ilúvatar'. The first such Age began with the Awakening of the Elves during the Years of the Trees and continued for the first six centuries of the Years of the Sun. All the subsequent Ages took place during the Years of the Sun. Most Middle-earth stories take place in the first three Ages of the Children of Ilúvatar.):http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Arda
Ted Nasmith, Illustrator (Artist, illustrator, and architectural renderer, best known as an illustrator of J.R.R. Tolkien's works - The Hobbit, The Lord of the Rings, and The Silmarillion.): http://tednasmith.mymiddleearth.com/

Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, totally worn out & proclaiming "WOW, what a ride!"Continuing the never ending battle to keep Lobelia Sackville-Baggins in check

Thanks for the list and may I add the new(ish) location of the Elfling List, hosted by David Salo and frequented by every other Tolkien linguist out there that we have heard of or not:http://elfling.midgardsmal.com/

This will be good to know for any situation in which I might offer opinion, rather than fact. You imply that some facts are instead opinions, which they are not: such a counter-factual opinion possesses no validity, and itself demonstrates that there is at least one type of opinion that is not always OK.

Envoyé par Breeon

Structured criticism is better though.
Which sources are non-canonical and why?

I'm not going to do the work that is incumbent upon you for creating this thread: this thread's title, "Lore & Language Links", can only imply "[Valid] Lore & Language Links[, which have been parsed for authenticity]"; caveat vendor, the product must match the advertisement.

For me to withdraw my stated objection, actions of the following order need to be performed:

All links to material that is not canon need to be identified, and qualified, as such; else, removed.

If you do not feel fully-qualified yourself to perform such evaluations, a complete-and-accurate disclaimer to that effect should be inserted as a header; presented before any of the suspect links, this would serve to qualify that all that follows is of dubious authenticity. That would be a shame, though, because not all of the links are of dubious authenticity.

I do agree with HoG that there are a few links here that are non-canonical, and that is a fact.

But, what 'canon' is can be a definition that varies from Tolkien enthusiast, to scholar, to casual fan. I *have* met folks who do not consider any of the extra information in HoMe canon, for instance, because it was largely incomplete thoughts or just the history of reworking the story. What people here decide is canon or not matters not to me and I am definitely not looking to make an argument of what is valid canon or not between HoME, UT, and other posthumous publishings.

What I can say to perhaps be of some assistance to you, Breeon, is that for big fans leaning towards the more scholarly side of things, anything that hosts itself more as a fan site as opposed to an intellectual discussion site may have items on there that do not have strong, if any, canonical backing with good sources listed. Just to name one example, arwen-undomiel.com, while a very fun fan site, I don't believe lists sources for many of their Elvish interpretations. To contrast this, Hisweloke lists sources for every single item so fans can judge for themselves what is legit and what is not.

Wikis, as they are able to be edited by anyone, are often also seen as unreliable to the more scholarly sorts.

Perhaps you can break your list up into sections with more fan-related sites vs sites that have a more scholarly side to it. I wrote a similar list for my kinship about 2 years ago for Middle-earth resources, but as I was mostly focusing on sites with good reputations for having their content sourced, my list is much smaller than yours.

Laire, thank you for offering a more moderate POV than my own ...

... particularly as the activity itself helps illustrate how opinions and facts inter-relate.

You also say many excellent things. Indeed, how canon is (to be) defined is, itself, a problematic and debatable proposition.

I have no desire to be (excessively) harsh with/to Breeon, or with the effort expended in the compilation of the list of language & lore links: it is merely an unfortunate and inconvenient fact that the compiled list can not be considered to be "completely honest", as presented; nor has the presenter identified and/or qualified the deficiencies.

It must be presumed that this effort is intended to compile a tool for the benefit of the community: to be of such use, it needs to be presented in a form that either,

1. lists only references that satisfy a stated measure of authoritative credibility (with the criteria of measurement likewise defined), or
2. identifies and qualifies all references according to a variety of measures of credibility; this might be done, for example, categorically.

If neither of these conditions can be satisfied, the presenter should acknowledge such, and at the point of introduction, before any reader proceeds to attempt to make use of the list. It is my opinion that any and all members of the community are entitled to this form of consideration; as this style conforms to both academic and legal expectation, I believe its qualifications as a "reasonable standard" can not be gainsaid.

This will be good to know for any situation in which I might offer opinion, rather than fact. You imply that some facts are instead opinions, which they are not: such a counter-factual opinion possesses no validity, and itself demonstrates that there is at least one type of opinion that is not always OK.

I'm not going to do the work that is incumbent upon you for creating this thread: this thread's title, "Lore & Language Links", can only imply "[Valid] Lore & Language Links[, which have been parsed for authenticity]"; caveat vendor, the product must match the advertisement.

For me to withdraw my stated objection, actions of the following order need to be performed:

All links to material that is not canon need to be identified, and qualified, as such; else, removed.

If you do not feel fully-qualified yourself to perform such evaluations, a complete-and-accurate disclaimer to that effect should be inserted as a header; presented before any of the suspect links, this would serve to qualify that all that follows is of dubious authenticity. That would be a shame, though, because not all of the links are of dubious authenticity.

HoG

Words. Words upon words.
Dribble.
Lighten up.. Its all going to be OK

And I'm not selling anything Jack.. was just sharing some sources I've found useful.
Is this a court of law.. I don't think so.
Whatever

Any member of our community is entitled to say, "no, I don't agree with that opinion" and/or, "no, I am not going to do that"; I am merely re-iterating the basic rights to which we are all guaranteed.

So, it would have been perfectly acceptable for this issue to have taken the following course (person A and person B):

A. "I want everyone to know that some of this material is suspect, since the OP neglects to mention anything about it; if the OP is edited to clarify the content in this regard, I'll withdraw the objection";
B. "I do not see any need to do that";
A. "Fine. As I have said, already, my objection will stand".

That's it. Alas!, things have fallen-out differently ...

Envoyé par Breeon

Words. Words upon words.
Dribble.
Lighten up.. Its all going to be OK ...

Is this a court of law.. I don't think so.
Whatever

Attempt to insult me whenever and however you wish, and it changes nothing: both myself and my stance remain unchallenged and unsullied, while you present your own hands covered in the poop you try to sling ...

Envoyé par Breeon

And I'm not selling anything Jack.. was just sharing some sources I've found useful.

I believe you said, "Dribble" ... ?

This last statement: wow, what a bald-faced lie!

If you only wanted to "share", you would have --at the very least!-- inserted some form of disclaimer at the top of the list, that explains that you have not evaluated the quality of the contents; if you had really wanted to "share", you would have actually done the work. You didn't do any of that.

Similarly, in response to my objection, you could have simply said, "I see. I understand. I merely wanted to share some resources I've found useful": you could avoid doing the work simply by conceding my objection and permitting it to stand. You didn't do that, either.

It is indeed manifest, now, that you wereattempting to sell many things, things that you now declare you have no interest in providing at all, to any reasonable standard (truth appears in parenthesis):

1. Your desire (to be seen, only, without doing any work, as someone willing and capable) to assist the community;
2. Your (wish to be seen, only, without doing any work, as possessing) knowledge and honest enthusiasm for the author's works;
3. Your (intention to establish your own, unearned,) eminence among the community as a reputable authority.

I'm sure I've left a few things out, but I would imagine I've made my point.

At this juncture, I'll remind you that you are the one who has decided to turn this into a personal dispute: picking a fight is a questionable practice, by many standards of evaluation; if one does pick a fight, best to be sure of one's opponent, not to mention the ground beneath one's own feet ...