Winston wrote:
There is a saying, "The Bible is a good book for good people, and a dangerous book for dangerous people."

If you are a godly person, you will do good works. If you are an evil person, you will do evil works. If I give a weapon to a good person, will he use it for evil or for good? If I give a weapon to an evil person, is he likely to use it for good or for evil?

Now under that context, re-read the statement you wrote which is quoted above.

Firstly, just because there is a God or Creator of our world does not mean that he MUST be perfect, infallible, all good, all wise, all powerful, all knowing, blameless, etc. Or even a moralistic good person for that matter. The logic doesn't follow. That would be like saying that the people who built my house MUST be all good, all knowing, perfect, infallible and blameless just because they are the builders or creators. The logic doesn't follow.

Secondly, it takes a whole team of construction workers to build a house or building. And it takes a team of designers to create a virtual reality world. So just because there is a creator of our world, does not mean that there must only be ONE creator. It's more likely that there is a team of creators, not just one, because that's what we see in the real world. To build a vast structure requires a team of people, not just one. So the logic also doesn't follow that a creator must only be one.

Thirdly, we know that everything in this world or universe has more than one of it. For example, there is more than one of trees, rocks, mountains, rivers, people, cultures, etc. And there are many stars and galaxies, not just one. Thus everything has more than one of the same kind. So why can't there be more than one deity or God as well? The logic would follow.

The thing is, orthodox religions want you to believe that there's only one creator or God so that you will obey the authority of a monotheistic deity rather than turning to other deities, which centralizes and consolidates their control over their followers.

Firstly, just because there is a God or Creator of our world does not mean that he MUST be perfect, infallible, all good, all wise, all powerful, all knowing, blameless, etc. Or even a moralistic good person for that matter. The logic doesn't follow. That would be like saying that the people who built my house MUST be all good, all knowing, perfect, infallible and blameless just because they are the builders or creators. The logic doesn't follow.

Secondly, it takes a whole team of construction workers to build a house or building. And it takes a team of designers to create a virtual reality world. So just because there is a creator of our world, does not mean that there must only be ONE creator. It's more likely that there is a team of creators, not just one, because that's what we see in the real world. To build a vast structure requires a team of people, not just one. So the logic also doesn't follow that a creator must only be one.

Thirdly, we know that everything in this world or universe has more than one of it. For example, there is more than one of trees, rocks, mountains, rivers, people, cultures, etc. And there are many stars and galaxies, not just one. Thus everything has more than one of the same kind. So why can't there be more than one deity or God as well? The logic would follow.

The thing is, orthodox religions want you to believe that there's only one creator or God so that you will obey the authority of a monotheistic deity rather than turning to other deities, which centralizes and consolidates their control over their followers.

You can believe that if you choose to, Winston, but that is calling God a liar. You either believe God (and His Word), or you do not. Anything about God that doesnt come from the Bible is conjecture. You're running on some major assumptions, including some obvious deceptions. For example, after studying the flat earth, do you still believe scientists are truth seekers? Or do they have a vested interest in group think?

There are many people who want you to believe there are other planets, other gods, and other ways to heaven. Anyone who says there is another true God, another earth anywhere in the universe (or even that there is a universe), or another way to heaven other than through faith alone in Jesus Christ, is either massively deceived by the world (or by their desire to commit lots and lots of sin), or they are one of the most wicked of deceivers (like Neil deGrasse Tyson, Buzz Aldrin, and others).

The thing is, orthodox religions want you to believe that there's only one creator or God so that you will obey the authority of a monotheistic deity rather than turning to other deities, which centralizes and consolidates their control over their followers.

That is very true. Ask yourself why though? Because Satan is in control of those massive institutions. Anywhere there is a massive, centralized power structure, especially when there is wealth or the fate of souls involved, you can guarantee that it has been taken over by Satanists. This includes banking, politics, and religion.

True Christianity is independent. You won't find a national or international chain of independent churches. They are individual churches, which is what is meant by independent. You do not need to go to church to be a Christian. All that you have to do is believe that the only way to heaven is through Jesus Christ and that He paid the entire price for our sins (faith alone, without works).

You will find that those massive, international churches and denominations you think of all cite incorrect ways to get into heaven. That is because Satan wants to lead people astray.

Adama wrote:
If Satan is real, and he is, then it makes sense that he would create apostate Christianity, in order to deceive those who are looking for Jesus, to take them off course and to damn them to hell. The Bible states clearly that no man can know the day or the hour of the Lord's second coming. If those Christians are predicting the time of Christ's return, then they are not true believers, because the Bible clearly states that no man can know exactly when. Therefore they are false versions of Christianity; the kind that does not believe the Bible.

But Adama, even the Jesus of the NT said that the End Times and Second Coming would be in the lifetime of his first followers in the First Century AD. See below:

There are 16 obvious failed prophecies in regard to the Second Coming of Christ and the end of the world, which was supposed to take place in the First Century Apostles’ lifetime!

Below Jesus clearly predicts that his Second Coming will be during the lifetimes of the First Century Christians who lived in their time.

"Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom." (Matthew 16:28)

"But I tell you of a truth, there be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the kingdom of God." (Luke 9:27)

Jesus clearly predicted in those two verses above that the apostles standing with him would see his second coming in their lifetimes. It's clear and simple, nothing allegorical or symbolical.

These following verses also indicate that Paul expected that he and the Christians of his time would see the Second Coming of Christ.

"But this I say, brethren, the time is short: it remaineth, that both they that have wives be as though they had none;" (1 Corinthians 7:29)

"For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven... Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds..." (1 Thessalonians 4:15-17)

"God...Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son..." (Hebrews 1:1-2)

2000 years ago it was the "last days"!? More similar verses below.

"For yet a little while, and he that shall come will come, and will not tarry."
(Hebrews 10:37)

"But the end of all things is at hand: be ye therefore sober, and watch unto prayer."
(1 Peter 4:7)

"Christ...was manifest in these last times for you,..." (1 Peter 1:19-20)

"Be patient therefore, brethren, unto the coming of the Lord... stablish your hearts: for the coming of the Lord draweth nigh...behold, the judge standeth before the door." (James 5:7-9)

"The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass;..." (Revelation 1:1)

"Behold, I come quickly." (Revelation 3:11)

"And he said unto me, Seal not the sayings of the prophecy of this book: for the time is at hand... He which testifieth these things saith, Surely I come quickly. Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus." (Revelation 22:10, 20)

"But when they persecute you in this city, flee ye into another: for verily I say unto you, Ye shall not have gone over the cities of Israel, till the Son of man be come."
(Matthew 10:22-23)

Jesus said there that his second coming would occur WHILE his apostles were preaching in the cities of Israel!

In the following three verses, Jesus says that the generation living at the time would experience his second coming.

"So ye in like manner, when ye shall see these things come to pass, know that it is nigh, even at the doors. Verily I say unto you, that this generation shall not pass, till all these things be done." (Mark 13:29-30)

"So likewise ye, when ye see these things come to pass, know ye that the kingdom of God is nigh at hand. Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, till all be fulfilled." (Luke 21:31-32)

"So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors. Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled." (Matthew 24:33-34)

Obviously, that generation that Jesus was speaking to has long since passed! What an impressive assortment of failed prophecies! Is this convincing to you of the divine infallible inspiration of the Bible?

Adama wrote:
If Satan is real, and he is, then it makes sense that he would create apostate Christianity, in order to deceive those who are looking for Jesus, to take them off course and to damn them to hell. The Bible states clearly that no man can know the day or the hour of the Lord's second coming. If those Christians are predicting the time of Christ's return, then they are not true believers, because the Bible clearly states that no man can know exactly when. Therefore they are false versions of Christianity; the kind that does not believe the Bible.

But Adama, even the Jesus of the NT said that the End Times and Second Coming would be in the lifetime of his first followers in the First Century AD. See below:

There are 16 obvious failed prophecies in regard to the Second Coming of Christ and the end of the world, which was supposed to take place in the First Century Apostles’ lifetime!

Below Jesus clearly predicts that his Second Coming will be during the lifetimes of the First Century Christians who lived in their time.

"Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom." (Matthew 16:28)

"But I tell you of a truth, there be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the kingdom of God." (Luke 9:27)

Jesus clearly predicted in those two verses above that the apostles standing with him would see his second coming in their lifetimes. It's clear and simple, nothing allegorical or symbolical.

These following verses also indicate that Paul expected that he and the Christians of his time would see the Second Coming of Christ.

"But this I say, brethren, the time is short: it remaineth, that both they that have wives be as though they had none;" (1 Corinthians 7:29)

"For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven... Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds..." (1 Thessalonians 4:15-17)

"God...Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son..." (Hebrews 1:1-2)

2000 years ago it was the "last days"!? More similar verses below.

"For yet a little while, and he that shall come will come, and will not tarry."
(Hebrews 10:37)

"But the end of all things is at hand: be ye therefore sober, and watch unto prayer."
(1 Peter 4:7)

"Christ...was manifest in these last times for you,..." (1 Peter 1:19-20)

"Be patient therefore, brethren, unto the coming of the Lord... stablish your hearts: for the coming of the Lord draweth nigh...behold, the judge standeth before the door." (James 5:7-9)

"The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass;..." (Revelation 1:1)

"Behold, I come quickly." (Revelation 3:11)

"And he said unto me, Seal not the sayings of the prophecy of this book: for the time is at hand... He which testifieth these things saith, Surely I come quickly. Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus." (Revelation 22:10, 20)

"But when they persecute you in this city, flee ye into another: for verily I say unto you, Ye shall not have gone over the cities of Israel, till the Son of man be come."
(Matthew 10:22-23)

Jesus said there that his second coming would occur WHILE his apostles were preaching in the cities of Israel!

In the following three verses, Jesus says that the generation living at the time would experience his second coming.

"So ye in like manner, when ye shall see these things come to pass, know that it is nigh, even at the doors. Verily I say unto you, that this generation shall not pass, till all these things be done." (Mark 13:29-30)

"So likewise ye, when ye see these things come to pass, know ye that the kingdom of God is nigh at hand. Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, till all be fulfilled." (Luke 21:31-32)

"So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors. Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled." (Matthew 24:33-34)

Obviously, that generation that Jesus was speaking to has long since passed! What an impressive assortment of failed prophecies! Is this convincing to you of the divine infallible inspiration of the Bible?

Well I am only one person, and I think it would take hours for me to put each one of those into context so that you could understand. There are simply too many of those quotes.

This is the Last Days. 2,000 years may seem like it has been too long, but they were talking about relative to the length of time which had come before, which was already 4000 years. Time is almost finished. I don't know how much time is left, but I would say that even if we were in the latter half of days, that would still make it the last days.

"Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom." (Matthew 16:28)

"But I tell you of a truth, there be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the kingdom of God." (Luke 9:27)

That's because believers do not die. Believers go to sleep. Their souls go to heaven. They never die. The people who die are the ones who when they sleep go to hell. Those are the unbelievers. So when He says they will see, they will see, cause they will go to heaven when they die. That is what is meant by everlasting life; never seeing death.

"But this I say, brethren, the time is short: it remaineth, that both they that have wives be as though they had none;" (1 Corinthians 7:29)

What Paul meant here is that it would be better to live godly without a wife than to try to live godly while having a wife. The husband has to concern himself with pleasing his wife, while the unmarried man can concentrate solely on God. If you continue reading, Paul says exactly that, but you just take these quotes from the atheists and you believe they support the non-existence of God somehow.

"For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven... Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds..." (1 Thessalonians 4:15-17)

This simply means that some Christians will be alive and remain on earth when Christ comes, meaning that there will be Christians who will be alive when Christ returns. (As opposed to the group of Christians who are already in heaven with Jesus.) That is a prediction of the future, not His present day. The souls of Christians who die before Christ's return are in heaven with Him. Those Christians who are already living on earth when Christ returns do not need to go to heaven to be with Him because Christ is at that point coming back to the earth. Do you get it now? Christ will be coming to the earth. Therefore the living Christians will meet Him on earth, rather than having to go to heaven to meet him.

"For yet a little while, and he that shall come will come, and will not tarry."
(Hebrews 10:37)

Here I believe he is talking about the gift of the Holy Ghost, not the second coming of Christ. He was talking about those who knew about God but refused to believe.

"But the end of all things is at hand: be ye therefore sober, and watch unto prayer."
(1 Peter 4:7)

This is the end times, which means the deceptions are going to get stronger and worse. So pay attention and pray.

"But when they persecute you in this city, flee ye into another: for verily I say unto you, Ye shall not have gone over the cities of Israel, till the Son of man be come."
(Matthew 10:22-23)

This is another prediction but also an instruction. When the time is right in the future, they are told what they should do, if they happen to live in that area of the world at that time.

"So ye in like manner, when ye shall see these things come to pass, know that it is nigh, even at the doors. Verily I say unto you, that this generation shall not pass, till all these things be done." (Mark 13:29-30)

No this was a prediction and warning for people who see those things (events) come to pass, meaning when those things come to pass, not as in right now. See "come to pass" is an indication of the future. When He says generation, He means the those things will happen within the average lifespan of the individuals who are alive at the time when those things start happening. As in, from start to finish those things will happen over the course of a few short years, without giving a definite time frame.

It's easy to be deceived because you're not a believer. If you believed, God would give you the Holy Ghost, and then you'd understand.

Well, to turn the topic back to it's intended thing and not a debate about whether people are going to hell, third eyes, magic, and new age stuff, etc... I'm talking to a girl in Vietnam now. She described herself as "not religious" but said she goes to church at Christmas time (and she's sad she can't make it this year due to work) knew a few Bible stories, and actually even did things like encouraging me to go to bed early so I can get to church on time, etc, and said she'd like to know more about Christianity (though I've not pushed this issue much to her yet.) She's very conservative morally as well. Does she sound like she would formally convert to Christianity, or no? At the very least I cannot see conflict with her with regards to religion, but I'd like to raise my children Christian, obviously it's just something I'm going to have to discuss sometime, but I'd like to know anyone else's experiences regarding this.

I am an Orthodox Christian, so Adama will say I'm going to hell/etc, but the other problem is in Vietnam there's only one Orthodox Church in South Vietnam, and she lives in Hanoi, and her family somewhat close to there as well, and more job opportunities exist in Hanoi. In Hanoi there's a pan-Orthodox/Lutheran/Anglican/general liturgical church, but no Orthodox one at all.

Any help from people with experience with this would be appreciated. She really is a very sweet girl, basically out of my dreams, but it would be I guess a deal breaker to not marry a Christian. But at the same time, many many girls in USA are "Christian" on paper, but not in actuality at all in their private belief or moral standards (or don't even make it to church once a year like she does...) whereas her it almost seems the opposite, and this seems much easier to "fix" or change. But at the same time, we can't expect anyone to drastically change or "fix" with romantic partnerships, right?

(1) Saw a write-up about the topic of mixed marriages on a Buddhist site. All posters there concurred that in mixed Buddhist-Christian marriages, the Buffhist ended up converting, Becaue loyalty to the faith was far more important to the Christian.

(2) As an Orthodox, you should research what church says about Catholicism. Only serious points of difference, to my knowledge are the "filioque" (there is clear New Testament scripture on both sides of the issue) and Papal Supremacy/Papal Infallibility/Immaculate Conception

(3) Catholic church is cool with Orthodox taking Mass there, as long as they have ok from their bishop. THEY accept YOUR baptism, even if you dont necessarily reciprocate. I bet if you talked to a bishop and explained th circumstances you would get permission.

SO, just go to Catholic churches in Vietnam.

If you study thir history, you will not doubt their faith. They suffered a lot for the Faith. And when in Mass they are praying for the Pope, just skip that part, or as I do, pray for him like you would pray for any rank sinner.

"Well actually, she's not REALLY my daughter. But she does like to call me Daddy... at certain moments..."

mentor wrote:Besides Philippines, the christian population is still the minority in this part of Asia.
All articles I read, tell that christianity vastly expands in these countries. In some decades, they will be christian countries!
.....I am mainly talking about Vietnam, Thailand, Indonesia, Laos, Cambodia.

I never noticed anything about 'vastly expanding Christianity' in Thailand, Laos and Cambodia, despite I am visiting frequently these countries.

Only a few percent of the entire population in this area are into Christianity, despite a lot of missionaries are trying to convert local people.

The only country I know in that region with a significant and stable Christian population is Malaysia, about 10 percent of its population. Christianity, which is popular among some Chinese and some Indian people is not growing and not declining since decades.

I cannot comment about Vietnam and Indonesia.

About Far East, in Japan only a few are Christians.

However the situation is totally different in South Korea, 30+ percent Christianity, popularity growing, and South Korea might become in future another country with a Christian majority.

After the Philippines South Korea is already no. 2 country in all SE Asia+FE Asia with Christianity very much alive.