If this is your first visit, be sure to
check out the FAQ by clicking the
link above. You have to register
before you can post. To do so, click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages,
select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.

Please do not post any copyrighted images or content without permission from the owner of those images or content. If you are unsure if an image or content is copyright protected, do not post it. When posting images from Google's image search, be sure to utilize the ability to filter by Usage Rights. This is located under Tools > Usage Rights. Any materials that infringe on any owner's Intellectual Property rights will be promptly removed.

The principle In Tolvanen being possibly available though is not “getting ahead” of anything. It’s about using their best non roster chip to go all in on trying to win now. Kind of like how the preds themselves acquired forsberg. The caps were going for the cup not giving up on forsberg who at the time was as blue chip as they got.

The reason the Preds are using their best non-roster chip is, at least in part, because his progress has stalled. If he was leading the AHL in scoring right now, he's already on their roster, and certainly isn't in trade talks. In fact, if his progress hadn't stalled, are they even shopping for a top-six forward?

"Everyone says you should be a good loser. If you’re a good loser, you’re a loser." - John Tortorella

"Never be a spectator of unfairness or stupidity. Seek out argument and disputation for their own sake; the grave will supply plenty of time for silence." - Christopher Hitchens

Ok so if his development is stalled to the point they are giving up on him then why are other teams trading much of anything to get him? He’s playing in the ahl, played in the world juniors. Every nhl team scouts the shit out of that league and that tournament. So does a Tolvanen highlighted package net them a panarin or stone or Duchene? I don’t think the preds are making him available to acquire Zuccarello. I guess we’ll see.

Interesting, isn't it? Just last week there were some here decrying the idea of the Rangers' shopping Andersson as "giving up on him," yet here are the Predators, with a more productive prospect, who has also failed to impress since being selected in the same draft, doing exactly that.

I’m not sure if you’re referring to me, but what I said was that I(me, Gravesy) don’t think they should give up on him just yet. I wasn’t decrying anything it’s just an opinion.
As others have said, it’s also a very different scenario. For the Predators he is an expendable asset as they try to win now. Imo the Rangers are in no need to sell low on Andersson at this point.

Of course, if they are all in agreement Andersson won’t make it here they might as well test the market, but I don’t get the impression that’s the case.

Ok so if his development is stalled to the point they are giving up on him then why are other teams trading much of anything to get him? He’s playing in the ahl, played in the world juniors. Every nhl team scouts the shit out of that league and that tournament. So does a Tolvanen highlighted package net them a panarin or stone or Duchene? I don’t think the preds are making him available to acquire Zuccarello. I guess we’ll see.

Change of scenery. A belief in the ability of your coaching staff and your FO to get more out of him. A belief that the player will benefit more from playing with your talents rather than those of his current team.

I’m not sure if you’re referring to me, but what I said was that I(me, Gravesy) don’t think they should give up on him just yet. I wasn’t decrying anything it’s just an opinion.
As others have said, it’s also a very different scenario. For the Predators he is an expendable asset as they try to win now. Imo the Rangers are in no need to sell low on Andersson at this point.

Of course, if they are all in agreement Andersson won’t make it here they might as well test the market, but I don’t get the impression that’s the case.

I couldn't actually remember who said it, sorry.

Regardless, we don't really agree. I have no issue with a team, even a rebuilding one, getting out in front of the market on players they lose faith in. If they're right, their doing so actaully benefits the rebuild, where holding onto a player for too long can end up hurting it.

I don't think we're there just yet with Andersson, but talk to me again at this point next season and depending on how pedestrian his numbers look (again), we could be singing a different tune.

"Everyone says you should be a good loser. If you’re a good loser, you’re a loser." - John Tortorella

"Never be a spectator of unfairness or stupidity. Seek out argument and disputation for their own sake; the grave will supply plenty of time for silence." - Christopher Hitchens

The premise that the preds are giving up on him is based on nothing. Who said they are giving up on him? Being willing to trade him does not mean they are giving up on him. They are one more year into their window and their position on him and fabbro can change due to the fact they may feel the need to go for it. Also last season saw them trade high level young assets in the turris deal maybe souring their appetite to include more high level guys last year. Point is we don’t know why they have now considered moving Tolvanen. Speculating that they are giving up on him Just like the rangers maybe with Anderson is just that with no inside knowledge to prove anything.

Also the talk of trading Anderson and “giving up” on him was fan speak as well. There is nothing from the rangers that speaks to them felling that way either.

And by no means am I saying you are wrong about Anderson. All I’m saying is that the feelings of the fans is far different from the people making decisions. Add in that those making decisions have skin in the game in their prior choices, they are more reluctant from moving on because they are then admitting they were wrong. As a fan it’s easy to be impatient and in some cases it’s justified.

Interesting, isn't it? Just last week there were some here decrying the idea of the Rangers' shopping Andersson as "giving up on him," yet here are the Predators, with a more productive prospect, who has also failed to impress since being selected in the same draft, doing exactly that.

No you posted A rumor regarding a top flight contending team being willing to trade their top prospect. A trade in your opinion they would make because they are moving on from the prospect before the reality sets in that’s he’s not worth his high status. Which is ridiculous because it’s far more likely they’d trade him because they are trying to win.

One situation has nothing to do with the other as the teams couldn’t be further apart in goals or expectations. Because you view that the rangers should trade Anderson now which can be argued. This rumor doesn’t disprove or prove your point. It does nothing. You don’t know the preds motives so to imply anything is false

I was never referencing insider reports. It was Gravesy who brought that language up a few days ago. I was responding to him.

I didn’t reference anything.
I said that, in my opinion, trading Andersson now would mean they’ve given up on him unless someone blew them away with an offer they couldn’t refuse, something that seems highly unlikely to happen at this point.
There is also nothing to suggest this is even a discussion at the moment.

Yeah, this has become a clusterfuck of an argument. We're just tripping over implications and who said what. Gravesy, you bringing up the language of "giving up on," is the only frame of reference I'm talking about with regard to you. We know we don't agree on it. Regardless, I see no practical difference between the Rangers "giving up on" Andersson (should they) and the Predators "selling" an under-performing Tolvanen, irrespective of the position the teams are in.

Both teams drafted players who are not performing relative to the hype. Both teams, in my opinion, would be smart to field offers on said players while the allure of "first-rounder" is still shiny.

The Preds would simply have an easier time justifying "giving up on" Tolvanen by citing a desire to win now. Maybe that matters more than I think it does, but the fundamental facts don't change in my view: both teams drafted players with rising stock, neither of whom has performed exceptionally since.

"Everyone says you should be a good loser. If you’re a good loser, you’re a loser." - John Tortorella

"Never be a spectator of unfairness or stupidity. Seek out argument and disputation for their own sake; the grave will supply plenty of time for silence." - Christopher Hitchens

This time last year Tolvanen was the toast of the prospect class. He torched the khl at 18. Then the olympics. This year he moved to North America and has become the first ever Teenage European to take time getting acclimated to the smaller rink and tighter quarters. He’s also 19 so moving to an entirely new country and culture probably has little effect on him as well. So obviously the preds are giving up on him.

Also this should serve as warning to all ranger fans. That if kravtsov becomes the second ever teenager to come over here and struggle in his first 40 games before turning 20 that the rangers should trade him as obviously that will be the end of him.