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I dont want to reopen the subject (chose not to participate to it) and admin can lock this thread too, but i need to say this, because you need to get your facts straight, and you are way out of the reality.

You mentioned retirement at 55. Seriously? Where did you get that info.I inform you that the normal retirement age is 65 for men and 63 for women,which by 2015 will be increased to 67 years old for both genders.And yes there are people retiring at 55 years old which they belong in a special category.And not a category someone is looking to belong if you get my drift.

Just wanted to mention this, cause from what it seemed and the way you wrote it, itsa hardcore "opinion maker" reason.

I keep myself fairly well informed... So when I see a credible documentary or news item that says Greeks retire at 55,.... i tend to believe it...

You say 65 for men,.... sure, that might be the 'official' age on paper,....but in reality most Greeks retire about 55... and the average age is as mentioned here in this Huffington Post article... Google it...

I might add,... Ariana Huffington is a Greek herself,....why would she lie...?

Excerpt:

Taxes have gone uncollected forever or have been short stopped by corrupt tax collectors. For decades, Greek governments have paid civil servants bonuses for showing up to work on time and 14 months' pay for Christmas. Retirement has averaged at 53 years of age. The other members of the "Club Med," or Club Nearly Dead, include Portugal, Spain and Italy which have soaring costs and gigantic underground, tax free economies.

There's also Ireland with governments that behaved as if their entry subsidies to the EU would never end.

The Greeks are the worst of the lot, and the Euro lenders should get in there and undertake a couple of obvious reforms in the absence of any Greek political leadership. Tax collection there should be outsourced to independent collection agencies, which know how to deploy tried-and-true measures to get taxpayers to pony up.

There is all kinds of journalism.And not everything you hear its true.And you are misinformed indeed If someone meets the requirements he/she can choose to retire earlier but with a lossfrom the retirement plan. Full retirement is at the ages i told you.You cant retire at any age you like.

Im not defending the situation here in Greece and the way we reached at this point,but for sure you are wrong in this one.

dawg and other ppl from here, who are against Greek(not only) ppl (seems to be many):

1)Never forget who who invented civilization!!!2)Greece doing very well before joining the EU. EU WANT Greece to join there, and almost force them. After they join EU, they had to buy many things from EU member states. Like old aircraft and military weapons, worth several billion. These things were no longer used by those states, old and broken. Besides this, a lot of taxes and money to EU. Three years ago, they wanted to get out from EU, EU didn't let them. Maybe they want Greece islands...so, never trust the media because they manipulate humanity. 3)This is a forum for game players, not for racism, politics and economic policy. So we must respect each other and let the hate behind.

my gf family is greek, her dad retired at 48, he was a captain on a ship and spent many years at sea and is still called in by government for special jobs, the rest of her family all own business's, they pay tax. don't know how people can blame the citizens for actions caused by the government, citizens only vote for politicians they dont do their job for them so if monies are mismanaged that is not the greeks fault!

the germans have pushed for greece to be bailed out as they make money from it, germany is profiting from all bailouts that is why they push for all countries to maintain EU status, the done the same with West germany after the berlin wall come down. west germany still feels the effects!

that is one of the main reasons the UK wont join as full members or change currency. You really need to get your info from somewhere else instead of a journalist, as many of them just write any old story to sell papers, just because she is greek means nothing..loads of cubans flee to america and they bad mouth the government, but that is to gain refugee status.

and the germans have also mentioned about greece selling off its islands to raise cash but greece doesnt want to, obviously!

it is Germanys way of taxing everyone due to restrictions placed on them since WW1/WW2 this is modern day warfare!

The Germans have pushed for Greece to be bailed out as they make money from it, Germany is profiting from all bailouts that is why they push for all countries to maintain EU status, the done the same with West Germany after the Berlin wall come down. West Germany still feels the effects!

It is Germany's way of taxing everyone due to restrictions placed on them since WW1/WW2 this is modern day warfare! [/QUOTE]

I totally agree with Graham. The Germans have tried in two World Wars to take over Europe and now they are trying through the EU. They are obviously the richest state within the EU and it wouldn't work so they think they can control the other states through economic means.

The EU cannot work unless they all join together under both economic and political umberellas. If this happens the Germans would have won and achieved what they tried in both World Wars - total control of Europe. Once this happens of course it won't stop there, so beware Asia, North and South America or wherever else you are!!!!

The best thing that can happen is that the Political Elite open their mouths and speak the truth, of course, in the world of Political Correctness - THIS WILL NEVER HAPPEN!!

Back to poker - GL to you all both on and off the felt............and take care...............................