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Darren was a fantastic Carlisle player many years ago and is taking that same strength of character in his coaching job. Best of luck to him, if barrow have a settled side and others have constant disruption I think they will benefit eventually.

Rugby League is a sport that desperately needs to expand its geographical supporter base and its player base. This imperative means that all other requirements are secondary until this is done.

All power in the game should be with governing bodies, especially international governing bodies.

Without these actions we will remain a minor sport internationally and nationally.

Hope Barrow do well, and Holty is a general all-round good bloke, but they've not made the best of starts, and the first home game crowd was worrying.
Speaks a lot of sense in that article and is being realistic. He knows whats around the corner when injuries and/or suspensions kick-in at both the SL and CC club.

Hope Barrow do well, and Holty is a general all-round good bloke, but they've not made the best of starts, and the first home game crowd was worrying.Speaks a lot of sense in that article and is being realistic. He knows whats around the corner when injuries and/or suspensions kick-in at both the SL and CC club.

Great post recognising where Holts club are likely to be come sunday night, but yes over the season will a settled Barrow claw back the situation and end up joining the independants at the other end of the table.

Barrow as a club and a place has a good amateur set up a sizeable population for fans and a geographical remoteness to prevent fans from being attracted to SL clubs - but again as you astutely put it the crowd was very worrying?

But as with the results too early yet to know what will happen in the end.

Barrow football is also finding it difficult to attract fans, the area isn't doing hugely well economically, so maybe this is being reflected in attendances. They do have a good lottery scheme though.
Barrow haven't invested fully in a big squad this season as they have to also fund the replacement of the floodlights.
I fully expect Barrow to go into the loan market at some point later in the season. They are also missing 2 props (McGoff and ??) for their first 2 games and then also Haggerty last week thru' suspension, so have some firepower to return.
However, they won't get anything out of Featherstone this week.

Barrow football is also finding it difficult to attract fans, the area isn't doing hugely well economically, so maybe this is being reflected in attendances. They do have a good lottery scheme though.Barrow haven't invested fully in a big squad this season as they have to also fund the replacement of the floodlights.I fully expect Barrow to go into the loan market at some point later in the season. They are also missing 2 props (McGoff and ??) for their first 2 games and then also Haggerty last week thru' suspension, so have some firepower to return.However, they won't get anything out of Featherstone this week.

In 2009 in the championship they topped 3,000 for a Widnes game, when the club hit the heights after several years of growth from a 2003 CC1 low of 800 average crowds. Given Barrrow's winning return to the Championship was on an average gate of 1300 gained in the same economic climate we have now, they must have thought they could have at least held that.

Cold weather? Defeat to one of last years lowest CC clubs as a marker of the seasons prospects?

Long way to go yet but last week Dewsbury were 300 down on their same fixture last year, Leigh 300 down, Sheffield 100 down, York 100 down. Let's hope it was the weather..........

In 2009 in the championship they topped 3,000 for a Widnes game, when the club hit the heights after several years of growth from a 2003 CC1 low of 800 average crowds. Given Barrrow's winning return to the Championship was on an average gate of 1300 gained in the same economic climate we have now, they must have thought they could have at least held that.

Cold weather? Defeat to one of last years lowest CC clubs as a marker of the seasons prospects?

Long way to go yet but last week Dewsbury were 300 down on their same fixture last year, Leigh 300 down, Sheffield 100 down, York 100 down. Let's hope it was the weather..........

The weather certainly couldn't have been much worse, that's for sure. Good luck to Barrow and much admiration to them for retaining their identity and credibility as a stand alone club when it could have been so tempting to take the easy way out like several others have done. I hope they make a real success of their return to the Championship.

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Both the football and the rugby have seen a dip in attendances this season, though to be fair, 1 game is too soon to call it. The attendance vs Keighley as a pre-season friendly was about the same as last week so hope its a blip.

If Holty goes out and loans 4 players from SL, which I believe he will do at some point, will they still be a stand alone club?

Don't get me wrong, I want our neighbours to do well and stay out of the relegation places as it is good for Cumbria that all 3 of our clubs are in the Championship but it just seems that if a linked club uses say 4 young 20 year olds under dual registration as opposed to a non-linked club loaning 4 experienced SL players then that is regarded as somehow worse!!!!

Am I missing something or is it just what people perceive is happening at these linked partnerships?

I remember when .............................

"It is impossible not to feel a twinge of sympathy for Workington Town, the fall guys this season for the Super League's determination to retain it's European dimension, in the shape of Paris. While the French have had every assistance to survive, the importance of having a flagship in a heartland area like West Cumbria has been conveniently forgotten." - Dave Hadfield - Independent 25th August 1996.

Just another aside on Thursday evening Whitehaven a club linked with St Helens didn't have any DR or loan players and Leigh a non-linked club had one loaned player from Wigan (Spencer). Which was the stand alone club?

I remember when .............................

"It is impossible not to feel a twinge of sympathy for Workington Town, the fall guys this season for the Super League's determination to retain it's European dimension, in the shape of Paris. While the French have had every assistance to survive, the importance of having a flagship in a heartland area like West Cumbria has been conveniently forgotten." - Dave Hadfield - Independent 25th August 1996.

If Holty goes out and loans 4 players from SL, which I believe he will do at some point, will they still be a stand alone club?

Don't get me wrong, I want our neighbours to do well and stay out of the relegation places as it is good for Cumbria that all 3 of our clubs are in the Championship but it just seems that if a linked club uses say 4 young 20 year olds under dual registration as opposed to a non-linked club loaning 4 experienced SL players then that is regarded as somehow worse!!!!

Am I missing something or is it just what people perceive is happening at these linked partnerships?

Brilliant post. Moore and Kleinhorst were playing for Leeds again last night so what IS this all about.

The difference may be in season long loans the CC club takes advantage of the SL club. in being allowed/not being allowed/expected to field players at the SL clubs whim, the SL club takes advantage of the CC club.

If anyone wants to get smart about "Independence" and take the moral high ground then I suggest they should dump DR altogether (unless they still need to win something to qualify for SL 2015? Do Fax, Leigh, Fev or Sheff need to do this?)

Brilliant post. Moore and Kleinhorst were playing for Leeds again last night so what IS this all about.

The difference may be in season long loans the CC club takes advantage of the SL club. in being allowed/not being allowed/expected to field players at the SL clubs whim, the SL club takes advantage of the CC club.

If anyone wants to get smart about "Independence" and take the moral high ground then I suggest they should dump DR altogether (unless they still need to win something to qualify for SL 2015? Do Fax, Leigh, Fev or Sheff need to do this?)

I completely agree with you with regards to the DRs.I would also take it a step further and i would stop loans unless you can prove you have an injury crisis in the position you want cover for.I would also reduce the league back down to 10 clubs with every club proving it can run with a 25 man contracted squad.

I completely agree with you with regards to the DRs.I would also take it a step further and i would stop loans unless you can prove you have an injury crisis in the position you want cover for.I would also reduce the league back down to 10 clubs with every club proving it can run with a 25 man contracted squad.

Back to 10?

I can see where you are coming from. If twinning and DR eventually ruins the championship where will the pressure come from on the chosen 14 to perform?

But we have a core of only five independent clubs left, and I can't see that RFL/SLE have engineered this situation just to do a great big about face.

Let's see if any of the five have the guts to truly be independent. Even so called Super clubs have loaned players.

I can see where you are coming from. If twinning and DR eventually ruins the championship where will the pressure come from on the chosen 14 to perform?

But we have a core of only five independent clubs left, and I can't see that RFL/SLE have engineered this situation just to do a great big about face.

Let's see if any of the five have the guts to truly be independent. Even so called Super clubs have loaned players.

Im not completely against the DR system, i just believe it should be limited to 4, there needs to be an age limit on it, and you should be allowed to use players from different clubs.Initially i was for a 14 team league but having seen were its led to i'm now massively against it.I know we need more games but the league for me, has now been ruined.i know its not ideal but i would 'now' sooner play the usual fixtures in a 10 team league, and then play 5 home games and 4 away games against the same clubs to increase revenue,the season after it would be 4 home and 5 away.Dropping 4 clubs would strengthen champ 1 as well.

Just another aside on Thursday evening Whitehaven a club linked with St Helens didn't have any DR or loan players and Leigh a non-linked club had one loaned player from Wigan (Spencer). Which was the stand alone club?

I can clearly see benefits in a Spencer, or previously Emmitt or Laithwaite or Mitchell or McCarthy or Blythe or Evans or Armstrong type young fringe player on a SL contract using the championship to win a further SL contract by playing at a higher level for a full season whilst still training at the SL club - surely this with a limited number is what the system should be all about. I would like to see a max of 2 per club with 4 weeks notice of a return.