Man, I just watched this movie last night. I tend to think that Michael Moore is a wee bit full of himself, but this was a very good film. Especially the last half where he takes the 9/11 volunteers (who were denied benefits from the fund set up to help them) to Cuba, where they receive free medical care with open arms. One woman gets her $120 (US) prescription filled for 5 cents.

WTF is wrong with the US? It's almost embarrassing to live here. We supposedly "lead the world" and we can't even feed and take care of ourselves. Gah.

That's exactly what I did too, shake my head. It's unbelievable.
Unfortunately, I CAN imagine having to consider which finger I would like to save, being a US citizen, and having to pay tons of money every month for shitty health insurance that's only valid at certain hospitals. And even then we have to pay a percentage. That is, unless you haven't met your deductible. And then the cost of prescriptions... It's absolutely ridiculous.

What's even more ridiculous is that had I been born 300 miles to the north of where I was, that scenario wouldn't even come up. So by virtue of geography and artificial boundaries, I get to choose whether to pay hospital bills or pay rent if I get sick.

It's really too bad that the average American won't stop watching American Idol or paying attention to what Britney Spears did this week long enough to see this film. If enough people saw this, there would be riots.

john maclean wrote:

I've seen the film awhile ago and just shook my head right through it. Imagine someone being dumped on the street from a //hospital// because they can't afford the care.

MM may be a bit one-sided, (as his critics say), but he does put his point across very well.

Can you imagine being asked to choose which finger you'd like to save after an accident?

It's really too bad that the average American won't stop watching American Idol or paying attention to what Britney Spears did this week long enough to see this film. If enough people saw this, there would be riots.

People actually taking such action is pretty rare. People will riot over food, but poor health care, not really. We're just told to be scared of the health care in other countries.

Actually, I thought the movie could have been better considering how juicy the target subject matter is. It was a little light on facts, but laden with anecdotes.

For instance, I was surprised that Moore never mentioned that despite not covering almost a sixth of the population, the American medical system is by far the most expensive in the world, half again as costly as then second priciest health care (Switzerland) and about twice as pricey as the mean in the OECD (industrialized capitalist countries of Europe, Japan, US). We even pay a far greater percentage of GDP for health care than other "advanced" industrialized nations. "Administrative" costs are more than 3 times as high in the market-based American medical system as they are in the supposedly uncompetitive monopolistic Canadian government run health care industry. Merkins, often being selfish and materialistic, might respond to arguments about how stunningly inefficient and overpriced our system is.

Also, I think he should have mentioned that the majority of health care dollars are already coming from the government, even in the U.S., it is just that they are channeled through the pockets of the largely for-profit infrastructure first. Medicare provides coverage for millions of people who would simply be uninsurable in the private health-care industry. Also, Moore could have discussed the fact that we already have a massive "socialized medicine" sector in the U.S., the Veterans Administration, which provides health benefits for former soldiers. It costs roughly half as much as private health care, has better patient outcomes, and is FAR more popular with its beneficiaries than any of the non-governmental alternative health care providers. Just extend that to cover the rest of the citizenry. Also, MM could have pointed out that not only are our medicine far more expensive than in other countries, but that most of the actual research & development is paid for by the American taxpayer, not the pharmaceutical that patent the resulting medications. Costs are socialized, profits are privatized, great for Wall Street, crappy for people.

Also, I have to say, I didn't find a lot of the anecdotes he portrayed as compelling as they might have been considering he solicited peoples stories on his web site and got 25,000 replies with a few days. Not that I didn't weep an occasional tear, but I think he could have selected somewhat more sympathetic subjects in a number of cases. It was a good movie, but it could easily have been a great movie.

As with any Michael Moore movie if he focused less on trying to wind up the government and more on presenting cold hard facts he would achieve a lot more. I like the guy because he is a breath of fresh air but at times it looks like his entire existence is to piss off the government rather than expose their failings. That is funny to watch sure and enlightening also but as you said he could have had the viewing audience furious and in tears with a proactive attitude installed in their head. Instead he just has them nodding in agreement.

I can't comment on SiCKO (I haven't seen it--I think Michael Moore is just a left-wing version of Rush Limbaugh: a gross, fat asshole), nor the NHS (I'm Canadian), but I really have to comment on something that detractors of 'socialized' medicine like to rant about, namely the shortage of doctors.

This week, my family physician died. He was suffering from heart trouble (his father, also a doctor, died of a MI many years earlier). This doctor had trouble finding a cardiologist over the hollidays. The reason we have a physician shortage is that, about fifteen years ago, the Provincial governments--with the connivance of Physicians' Associations--cut medical school enrolments. The logic went along the lines of, "we have too many GPs and, especially, too many 'specialists' (cardiologists, &c.); the 'oversupply' of doctors is increasing healthcare costs!" The real reason, of course, is that the Medical Associations (like any other union in a closed-shop environment, or oligopolies in a business market) wanted to choke-off supply, to keep incomes up by creating a sellers'-market. Everyone (left-wing and right-wing media, academics) bought this bogus 'consensus' and now we have the current mess.

Something that hasn't been tried in any country (Commie, Capitalist) is eliminating the professions and having the government license Doctors, Dentists and Nurses (also carpenters, engineers...) and having an open-shop/right-to-work system. The whole concept of 'self-regulation' is ludicrous. Also, when people in the U.S. talk about public vs. private, they neglect to notice the huge public system (Medicare, Medicaid, state and local clinics) that already exists. When people say "we don't want to pay taxes for someone else's healthcare!", they neglect to notice that they already pay for workers' health plans provided by companies, when they buy goods and services. These private social programs cost consumers (and taxpayers, in the case of Public Servants' plans) in the U.S. and Canada dearly, but they aren't universal. The unions don't care, since they only want healthcare for members. These costs also make businesses uncompeditive--an average car from North America has a U.S.$1,500.00 'union health and pension tax' on it, which is largely why those car companies are tanking.

Since the Democrats are, like the Republicans, owned by the medical-financial complex (just different parts of it), don't expect Socialized Medicine from the Obama Administration.[/i]

Since the Democrats are, like the Republicans, owned by the medical-financial complex (just different parts of it), don't expect Socialized Medicine from the Obama Administration.[/i]

It's only a matter of time. American businesses outside of the "medical-financial complex" are being hurt by the cost of health care which they have to provide for their workers (those businesses that do supply it), so there is growing pressure from business as well as labor for some type of National health care. Let's face it, Neither Canada nor the U.K. are really Socialist. The U.S. is just backward.

What people seem to forget is the entire HMO system was set up by the government. I used to think that the term health care was a bad term and we should call it disease care, but it's really a disease no care system.

We don't free market or a nationalized system, we have a kleptocractic system where corporation have set up a system via government to funnel money out of your paycheck into the pockets of executives. Health care is just the excuse, not the purpose. They give you only enough health care in order for people not to revolt.

If you want a health care system, first step is to revoke the charters off all insurance companies immediately. For bonus liquidate all their assets, burn all their records, and give the money back to the people who paid in. After this, health care will improve no matter what you do. Personally I think health care cooperatives are the way to go, a national plan would be better then what we have now.

The Health Care industry gives so much money to congress, we aren't going to see change. Unless Obama initiates a citizen revolt against congress (much like Reagan used to do) we aren't going to see meaningful change.

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