I’ve been seeing this guy (23M) for about 4 and a half months. I’ve been hinting that I’m interested in a more serious commitment but he says he’s not ready and that he will never just hop into a serious relationship again because of past situations. and wants to become friends and get to actually know me first before taking that step and Last night he surprised me with a Rolex watch . Inside there was a beautiful poem that he wrote confessing his feelings for me but at the bottom it said your friendship is a blessing my heart will forever treasure. I’m not sure where this is going and I don’t want to be lead on. I’m in love but have held off on saying it because I’m not sure if he feels the same or even looks at me in that light . Our relationship screams casual and I don’t want to get too attached . Any advice is appreciated

Edit : I’ve spoken to him about to the gift . He says that he’s confused about his feelings and whether he’s ready to enter a relationship and that he’s been turned off a little by the idea of a girlfriend after two toxic relationships back to back. He assured me that he had no intention to confuse me but to do something nice because I was so understanding that he wanted to take it slow. And that the watch wasn’t a big deal (financially) for him but when I asked about to poem and the “friendship” he said he knows how he feels about me but has conflicting feelings if he wants to seriously commit. Should I just back away and let him firgue it out ?

Are you quite sure this isn’t a pimp trying to abduct you and sell you into the sex slave trade? I’m totally serious. Awhile ago there was a post about a young lady whose new boyfriend spent tons on her in cash and gifts, but she could tell that something wasn’t quite right. When she learned in one of the comments that this was a common tactic of pimps, and that she should never let him take her out of the country, especially to Colombia (I think it was Colombia) because the area has a high rate of abductions, she was like “OMG he was going to take me on vacation there next month!”

Not to sound paranoid but I second this. Maybe you should find more out about him. This is a mixed signal, the question is what is the signal? Also if he is a normal dude and isn’t sure about you after months... then it is okay to move on. No gift can replace real affection and love.
Please be safe and take care of yourself.

I agree! I saw that post a while back as well. I was kind of thinking this seems a bit odd. I could see if he was trying to win her over. But the guy made it clear this is a friendship. But that gift is quite elaborate for just a friend. I definitely third this OP. Be careful!

However, men luring women into sex trafficking is a very real thing. It begins as a girl in a relationship and the next thing she knows she has to sleep with her boyfriend’s friend to pay off his debt. Maybe it is an idea from crazy-town but if I float that idea by one girl who is actually in that situation then my tin hat isn’t for nothing.

I think I found it. We can't post links here, and I think the original was deleted, but if you search Reddit boyfriend human trafficking Costa Rica, it should come up. Viewable on removeddit. It's from August and was originally posted to r/relationship_advice.

Edit: seems my search terms weren't specific enough. the thread title is "Everything is too good to be true, this man (31 M) who came into my (21 F) life is spoiling me very hard. I have some questions."

Unfortunately it won’t let me copy the text on mobile but I found it by searching ‘Reddit boyfriend human trafficking’ and it’s the top search result. All you have to do to get the body of the post to show up is replace the reddit.com portion of the URL with removeddit.com. This works with most removed/deleted posts (remember, the Internet is forever!).

Wait this was in Costa Rica? I’m from Costa Rica, I work closely with women’s and children’s rights organizations and I’ve never heard of anything like this. Kidnappings aren’t even common here! I’d love to see this thread as I’d like to know more of this type of situation but the keywords provided don’t give me anything on Reddit search or google

There was a girl writing on Reddit just a couple weeks ago that almost got nabbed leaving the Gym. Some random guy ran over and helped. Later came back - said police report came back that the car was stolen and plates were stolen dealer plates... It is a crazy world out there...

But with a normal-functioning adult? Sure, it absolutely happens, but mostly with vulnerable people, like children, those with history of abuse, those with addictions. Like, I'm sure plenty of people go on vacation to Colombia each year and are not sold into sex slavery.

But this is a very contextless number. It's a lot more common in some countries than in others. It's a lot more common if the boyfriend's job situation is unclear and a lot less common if the boyfriend is, eg: a bank manager at the local Fifth Third branch.

Like, if OP had included the detail "we went to college together in Michigan he's an accountant and our parents are members of the same synagogue", then the risk of her being sold into sex slavery goes down to almost zero. If OP says "I'm in Dubrovnik and he's some sort of unspecified Russian businessman and I don't know much about him" then warning signals flash.

Being sold into sex slavery is a real thing but let's not throw out "4.8 million" as a number and pretend that we can use that to assess anything close to the overall risk of OP being exposed to it without more information.

If you think sex trafficking only happens with shady businessmen in eastern Europe

Did I say that? But it's well understood that sex trafficking is more prevalent in certain regions, nations, cultures, and environments.

I'm talking here of probabilities of course, not absolutes. For instance, school shooters are overwhelmingly likely to be males. Does it mean it's impossible that a woman is going to shoot up her high school? Of course not, women are just as capable of buying guns and shooting classmates.

Similarly, human trafficking tends to follow certain established patterns. The person who targets you is less likely to be someone with longstanding family ties to your shared community and a well known social circle that overlaps with yours. If you're a runaway teen you're way more likely to end up involved in sex trafficking than if you're a college grad and by the time you're middle age your risk of getting sex trafficked drops very low regardless of other factors. These are just facts which intuitively make sense given what we know about how sex trafficking works and backed up by empirical data.

Which is to say, talking about risks and probabilities is important. Contextless numbers cause unfounded panics which are, if not as harmful as underestimating the problem, still complicate the identification of the real problem.

Not just Russia. This is extremely common in the US. When I was in nail school, we were trained on how to spot girls working as sex slaves. During my 10 week course, we had three separate incidents of girls asking for help for this exact reason. Stay safe everybody.

There are lots of resources online for this. People in certain trades will come into contact more often with human trafficking. Hotels and nail salons are major epicenters of human trafficking in the US.

Are you or someone you know being trafficked? Is human trafficking happening in your community? Recognizing potential red flags and knowing the indicators of human trafficking is a key step in identifying more victims and helping them find the assistance they need.

Bear in mind that not all indictators will be present in all situations. The type of trafficking and the content or environment are all important to take into account.
Common Work and Living Conditions: The individual(s) in question

Is not free to leave or come and go at will

Is under 18 and is providing commercial sex acts

Is in the commercial sex industry and has a pimp / manager

Is unpaid, paid very little, or paid only through tips

Works excessively long and/or unusual hours

Is not allowed breaks or suffers under unusual restrictions at work

Owes a large debt and is unable to pay it off

Was recruited through false promises concerning the nature and conditions of his/her work

Is not in control of their own money, financial records, or bank account

Is not in control of their own identification documents (ID or passport)

Is not allowed or able to speak for themselves (a third party may insist on being present and/or translating)

Other

Claims of just visiting and inability to clarify where they are staying/address

Lack of knowledge of whereabouts and/or do not know what city he/she is in

Appear to have lost sense of time

Shares scripted, confusing, or inconsistent stories

Protects the person who may be hurting them or minimizes abuse

This list is not exhaustive and represents only a selection of possible indicators. The red flags in this list may not be present in all trafficking cases. Each individual indicator should be taken in context, not be considered in isolation, nor should be taken as “proof” that human trafficking is occurring. Additionally, cultural differences should also be considered.

To request help or report suspected human trafficking, call the National Human Trafficking Hotline at 1-888-373-7888 or text "help" to BeFree (233733).

Same, I'm a Massage Therapist and sex slavery is an unfortunate, but rampant, problem in illegal massage parlors. Fyi - a reputable place will not be called a parlor and your therapist will not take kindly to being called a masseuse.

I definitely wouldn’t have thought anything about the word parlor or masseuse. I live in the rural south, and my (very conservative) relatives have always used these words.

I guess these words are holdouts from another time, because they definitely meant a massage therapist that words at a spa, hotel, wellness center, etc. They used masseuse to describe the work of family friends who are massage therapists. This is good to know that those words are a red flag, though. Thank you for posting this.

Being sold into sex slavery is a real thing but let's not throw out "4.8 million" as a number and pretend that we can use that to assess anything close to the overall risk of OP being exposed to it without more information.

Can you show me where I was doing that, because I don't see it. I see someone saying that being kidnapped and sold into sex trafficking is movie plot esque. I showed them a number of real human beings who have this happen to them. In June 2004 the State Department reported that they estimated the total trafficked annually at between 14,500 and 17,500. Now even I think that number is overblown, but I'm not okay with it being played off as something that just happens in bad movies. I was speaking to a poster in the comments, not telling the OP this needs to be her primary concern right now.

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Edit: Overblown was the wrong word. The report skews high imo, but I have no way of knowing personally. I just know it's higher by a bit than the number of reported cases. Not going to change it, just adding this small aside.

Oh I'm aware the reports include other types of trafficking. But even totaled the number of reported cases is below the estimate by a bit more of a margin than I agree with is all. Washington Post did an article on it quite a while ago, might edit it in later if I find it. But it's not by a huge number or anything, I just think the estimate skews high. Doesn't change anything about the situation.

It's so funny that you would imply it's way more likely to happen in Dubrovnik by a Russian and not in the US. I'm in Eastern Europe, and I have always learned (through work, studies etc.) that the US is a big magnet for sex trafficking too. I never thought of my own country as riskier than the US. I think it happens everywhere.

Also, the way these stats are reported varies from country to country. For example, some countries include anyone working as a prostitute regardless of whether it was voluntary/consensual. The definition of "sex slavery" is very wide.

being sold into a sex slave trade sounds like something out of a Lifetime movie.

Licensed massage therapist here. One of the major reasons several states now require Reflexology licensing is because after massage licensing became so rigorous, the "Asian massage" sex trafficking fronts switched over to calling themselves "Reflexology/foot massage" places. Slavery is a big problem on the west coast. There was a recent sting in Bellevue, WA that revealed (I think) hundreds of Amazon and Microsoft employees had been regulars (quite possibly with legit intentions) at a place that was mostly trafficked "employees." I had a friend hired at a different Asian spa because she was Chinese and a licensed therapist, and quit within two months because she learned how many of the other girls were not there voluntarily (well, that and insurance fraud).

That's just one niche of one industry, but I'm made aware of it on a regular basis. We think we're exempt from it in the US (certainly I did for a while), but we have slavers here just like everywhere else, and should be much more alert to it than we are.

When I was fresh out of massage school I thought I had gotten so lucky to find a job with a woman that would set all the appointments, and I would only owe her a very small amount out of what I made. I never met her in person. I would just mail her a check for her portion. I thought I was lucky until I realized that I was being groomed for sex with her clients. They all started off fine, then eventually they would ask for some sort of sexual contact. When I said no they apologized and didn't ask again. They also refused to ever book me again, and complained that I wasn't doing a good job. This never stopped my "boss" from booking me with new people. I was making a lot of money, so I continued to work with her, thinking that they had been isolated incidents. I thought that until it was no longer isolated incidents, but the norm. My boss would try to explain it all away, but when I was put in a position that made me scared for my life, I quit. The scam she had going was that her customers were warned to be gentle with the new girl, and let her warm up to you and build a strong client relationship. Once this was done, they started to be more sexual, trying to expose more skin, "accidentally" dropping their covering, and eventually they would ask for the sex act they wanted. I always told them no. I was disgusted. Once I could not deny what was happening I considered myself lucky to have gotten out of that with my life. If it's too good to be true, it usually is.

I had a friend hired at a different Asian spa because she was Chinese and a licensed therapist, and quit within two months because she learned how many of the other girls were not there voluntarily (well, that and insurance fraud).

Yeah, but I would think there has to be a certain amount of gullibility/other underlying issues going on. If someone tried to sell me into sex slavery, I'd claw their eyes out. Or they could just shoot me, because I am not doing that shit. I don't think we're exempt from it at all, but I think (and correct me if I'm wrong) that a lot of the girls who end up getting trafficked are underage, run away from home, have history of sexual/other abuse, and are involved in drugs. People prey on those girls because they are vulnerable and won't fight back. Were the girls in the place you worked physically chained? Because I'd literally run out into the street and scream that I had been kidnapped or run to the nearest phone and call 911 (even if I didn't say anything, because then they'd be obligated to send someone out).

Because I'd literally run out into the street and scream that I had been kidnapped or run to the nearest phone and call 911

I think we would all like to think we'd do that, but if you're in a foreign country, don't speak the language, don't know the police, don't trust the police, and are 100% reliant on the people who kidnapped you for food, it's less easy to commit to that. It's also really easy to say, "I'd rather be shot in the face than do x" but when it comes right down to it, most people would prefer to keep their limbs or their lives (or their family member's lives, if they have someone close to them in a similar situation).

Yeah, maybe you are the rare individual who could be forcibly put in a vulnerable situation and stare death bravely in the face after weeks of isolation and forced dependence, but I don't think it's fair to say that victims of professional kidnappers and slavers are there because they're vulnerable, druggies, or were sexually abused as children and wouldn't be if they'd just stand up for themselves.

That's not to say that kidnappers don't go for easy targets more often (that's what predators do), but being bribed or lured into a position of vulnerability can happen to anybody.

but I don't think it's fair to say that victims of professional kidnappers and slavers are there because they're vulnerable, druggies, or were sexually abused as children and wouldn't be if they'd just stand up for themselves.

Except that if you read the statistics from the FBI, over 90% are vulnerable and have suffered some form of abuse.

It happens a lot. I’m from a really small Canadian province and there is a very well known human trafficking ring here. Usually the girls end up on planes to Montreal or Toronto and are never seen again. Scary stuff.

It's terrifying. I'm from a small town in Ontario, and I fucking grew up with a girl who was kidnapped, fed drugs, brought to Toronto, and just used in awful ways for a week or two before she managed to get to a cell phone and call the cops. There was an article about it on the town's Facebook page. Fucking. Terrifying.

You should go watch the documentary Tricked on Netflix. This exact scenario is surprisingly common, and they didn't even get into the ones abducted overseas, only ones who were forced into sex slavery in the US.

Actually it’s a very common form of capturing young women. I work with CSEC girls in the foster system, the things they’ve been through and the way they were manipulated is so awful and horrible. We’re trained to see this behavior, I’ve had to call security on mama-sans working with pimps recruiting at the mall once.

Everything I've read about it happening is that it happens to children or people in otherwise vulnerable positions. Per a statistic I just read, over 90% of those sold into sex trafficking have experienced a history of abuse.

Yup. The money that they spend on their new, starstruck girlfriend is an investment; it’s nothing compared to the 💵💵💵 they receive from selling her. Then they go back and start with a new girl, who is just feeling so special and proud that she has a flashy, charismatic boyfriend who buys her expensive things and wines and dines her like a celebrity. And after a couple months she’s never heard from again.

If that were the case, why would he be so careful about commiting to her? If your goal is to find a potential slave, why would you increase the chances of her leaving/not trusting you by being indecisive? I don't see any advantage of that.

I don’t doubt that sex trafficking exists all over obviously, and I said nothing about that. That doesn’t make it not moronic to act like a guy spending or pretending to spend money to impress a girl is somehow automatically a likely sex trafficker. What that is, is moronic.

It’d be one thing if he was like trying to take her out of the country or something or had done something creepy or weird at all, but just giving someone a gift to keep them as a friends with beneifts? Guys do that all the time in big cities. There’s websites devoted to it. Making that accusation up out of literally nowhere is forwards from grandma level shit, like it or not.

First of all, nobody said this guy is definitely a pimp. Secondly, most sex trafficking is done domestically. Most people being trafficking for sex don't get sent to Columbia or anywhere else-- it happens right here. And this is a really, really common tactic that pimps use. So no, it's not "grandma-level shit" to bring up the fact that it is a possibility. She's only known him a couple of months, so she doesn't know him really well and this is the usual time that a pimp would escalate his tactics. They usually don't just walk up to a woman and start trafficking her right away-- they gradually push her into sex work over time, and this is one of the ways they do it. Often.

Honestly, if anything, we should be talking about this more often. Anyone could read this and learn from this information.

Haha you do realize that “do your research” is the catchphrase of pretty much every forward from grandma email right? “Vaccines cause autism! Do your research!” “Jet fuel can’t melt steel beams! Do your research!” “A guy spending or pretending to spend money to impress a girl is most like selling her into sex slavery! Do your research!”

It’s what people who have no actual facts or knowledge say to sound like they do. You don’t have to click share on every conspiracy you see on Facebook you know, but if you do, don’t flatter yourself that that’s somehow “being informed” with your little salt of the earth routine.

I wasn't thinking about that but now that you mention this, this is a totally common tactic for getting young girls into Commercial Sexual Exploitation AKA - childhood prostitution (but we don't call it that because by default children cannot consent to sex work). It's called the "Boyfriend Pimp" or the "Romeo Pimp".

They shower victims with attention, affection, favors and gifts with the stated intention of becoming the victim's boyfriend or girlfriend. They might try to take care of the victim and develop a reliance on them. Or, they'll just give very expensive and elaborate gifts as a ploy to use later on. In time, the “romance” deteriorates and the gifts diminish. Money gets tight, and the exploiter asks the victim to do him a favor: “Well, you know, since you’ll be staying with me/I gave you gifts/I got you accustomed to an expensive lifestyle, etc., We need to find a way to get some money.” This “favor” usually involves selling sex. They might be able to guilt someone into it because they bought them expensive gifts in the past and they "owe" them or need to be an equal in their relationship and pull their weight somehow. Soon, one favor turns into another. The victim now “works” for her exploiter and will remain loyal and hopeful that someday the loving relationship will return. It never does.

Anyways, yes, please be cautious. Don't be paranoid but keep that in the back of your mind if you notice any other red flags.

Do you know how expensive Rolexes are? Someone giving you a gift worth hundreds (if not thousands) of dollars 4.5 months into a relationship is way too much way too quickly, especially when there's no other signs he's into you.

Honestly, this guy doesn't sound like he knows what he wants and he sounds like bad news IMO. I wouldn't accept the gift at this point.

You know damn well a 23 year old that isn’t making 80k+ or comes from $$ cannot afford a 7-8k watch. If used maybe 4K. Take it to a jeweler to authenticate it. Also - if it’s real, ask him why? If not - return it to him ASAP.

I make north of that and would't consider buying a Rolex. That's some serious coin to drop on a watch. Then again, some peoples priorities are different.

​

Since a Rolex is probably one of the most faked watches out there, my odds are on it being a fugazi. Unless you know what you're looking at, the average joe could never tell the difference (until its stops working in a year or so).

I make north of that and would't consider buying a Rolex. That's some serious coin to drop on a watch. Then again, some peoples priorities are different.

That's because you're financially responsible and plenty of people aren't. I know of a decent number of software devs making six figures out of college who even at that salary were really making financially iffy decisions. One bought a brand new 7-series BMW (~$85k, $1k+/mo in payments), one went straight for a SoMa apartment in SF when he works out of the South Bay (~$4k/mo for a studio), and one went crazy into post-peak Bitcoin ($lol/mo).

I'm with you and I think it's a terrible purchase financially for almost every fresh graduate's salary, but there's no shortage of people who are willing to buy a real Rolex on that kind of income anyways.

Some of the comments in this are wild, my first thought it was a knock off and he’s just stringing her along, but not for the sex trade or anything like that. Just to be showy and probably keep having sex for a bit longer.

My boyfriend is an engineer. Made 55k starting off at 22 now at 75k at 27. They will not give you 80k unless you have your PE (professional engineering license, which takes 4 years of working directly under an engineer) and have a couple of years under your belt.

If you live in the Bay Area and are a skilled programmer that’s a different story, or if you work in finance (still, would take years to command 80k). Just my two cents. I used to think it was black & white but employers reallllllyyyy don’t want to pay you 80k that young if they don’t have to. They’d rather pay a seasoned, well-vetted candidate that. They can pay the recent grads way less.

Well, I hired a couple of new college grads this year working for me in my team. They both started at 120K plus bonuses (Bay Area). So it’s possible for sure. Plus when you suddenly get that kind of money, it usually follows with a couple of years of splurging and then maturing enough to think about saving and investment etc.

I hire in the Bay Area and can back this up. I just brought someone on with a Masters and no experience for $100k in SF, but the similar experience in AZ, TX (outside of HTown), etc. would be $75k - $80k max, and that's with a killer interview.

Yeah not at all, I'm two years out of college, and at least four of my personal friends are making more than 80K, (they work in finance, finance, consulting and then database management for a consulting firm). Two of those four are making over 100k. All but one graduated debt free due to scholarships or family wealth.
On top of that they frequently buy stupid expensive things bc suddenly someone is giving them 5 grand every few weeks.

There aren't a ton of people like that out there, but they are far from unheard of.
My bet is that this dude is a fuckboy with a good job trying to stay out of a serious relationship but still have a lot of sex.

No offense but location and FAMILY WEALTH plays a huge role in that. I have friends in NYC who are well qualified in tech and finance and it takes time and connections to command that much. Or graduate from a top tier school & have a network of ppl who can get you to the right recruiters. Not saying it isn’t possible but I live in the south and that’s not what happens here at all. In nyc or la, yes but not here.

Oh yeah, I'm not saying shit about how they got those positions. I just mean a 23 year old throwing 4 grand at a girl to keep fucking her without commitment does not scream "definitely a sex trafficker or 1%er family money to me".

Totally could just be "lucky mathematically inclined career oriented fuckboy" which isnt that rare of a type, esp if you look for boys at bars and clubs in cities.

Edit: I totally agree family wealth plays into it, but family wealth on the order of "can pay for all of my children's college up front", not on the order of "my kids have a trust fund paying them 6 figure salaries"

Damn, where do I find these men? Lol. Even my wealthy friends that come from old money would never spend that much on a woman. It would be seen as reckless and trashy quite honestly since they’ve known each other for 4 months. Just not the way to win over a woman especially if you have $.

I don't don't who you think "they" is, but if an engineer starts in tech in any of the reasonable hubs, 6 figures is standard. I started out at 115k for my first job after undergrad. Seasoned well-vetted candidates make way more than that.

You’re delusional. Or live in the Bay Area. Either way you’re in the 10% of earners. Not common at all for a recent grad. I do forget I’m on Reddit though where everyone is a top tier programmer with a Tesla 🤣 I’ll gladly provide data for you.

I'm not delusional, but you may be illiterate since you ignored the relevant qualifier on what I said. Tech hubs pay more, as I just said, and which you oddly gave an example of with SF after calling me "delusional".

I got a $80 Rolex in ChinaTown that looks an awful lot like a real $15k watch. It's super nice. You know what? I am a former waiter and now flight attendant. Only one person, one time, out of the million people that saw it, ever commented or knew enough about nice watches to comment. Expensive watches only impress strippers and watch sellers.

Good point. Be careful though. I’m not trying to presume guilt, but the first thing I would have thought was “stolen”. No normal 23yo can afford a Rolex. Maybe explain it first, with the poem etc. Wouldn’t want to end up like Skylar from Breaking Bad

If you think someone making $90k a year can easily afford a Rolex, you seriously have an issue with scaling numbers. It just doesn't work like that. Anyone making $90k and buying their "friends" Rolexes is still super weird.

Third possibility is that he bought the watch and wrote the poem for one of his previous relationships. She broke up with him and gave the watch back. He rewrote the end of the poem to make it about friends instead of love.

If so, you’re just a fill-in. He can’t know you well enough yet for such an extravagant present.

My money is on knock off. No offense, but it’s just the thing to say “I’m flashy and want you to hold me in high esteem, but I’m not invested in you at all.” Leave him. There are so many better men. If you have doubts, take it to a jewelry store and ask if they’ll appraise it.

This gift is way too fancy for this early on. Hell, I've been with my boyfriend for 9-10 months and I'm pretty nervous that the $30 shirt and $90 blazer (both of which were 90% off at a Black Friday sale) might make him uncomfortable. I wouldn't feel comfortable getting him something like a Rolex for at least a few years, and that's not just because I'm fucking broke.

Expensive gifts are not normal for you, but very normal for other people. All depends on job/industry/upbringing/culture. Expensive gifts were always normal in my family, and thus, they’re always the norm in all of my relationships. On both ends.

Expensive gifts are not normal for you, but very normal for other people. All depends on job/industry/upbringing/culture. Expensive gifts were always normal in my family, and this they’re always the norm in all of my relationships. On both ends.

Agreed. I'm all set to buy a few hundred dollars necklace for my girlfriend this Christmas. I just like giving gifts and since I can afford them, it's no issue. She's been wanting a nice necklace too, which works out.

I'm planning on sending her some flowers from Venus Et Fleur for Valentine's Day too.

Not sure yet. It's not a really a holiday to celebrate with gifts though XD Lmao, a subreddit mod went through and downvoted my comments before deleting them. I was confused since my comments suddenly all dipped by a point and now are gone.

I’ve spoken to him about to the gift . He says that he’s confused about his feelings and whether he’s ready to enter a relationship and that he’s been turned off a little by the idea of a girlfriend after two toxic relationships back to back. He assured me that he had no intention to confuse me but to do something nice because I was so understanding that he wanted to take it slow. And that the watch wasn’t a big deal (financially) for him but when I asked about to poem and the “friendship” he said he knows how he feels about me but has conflicting feelings if he wants to seriously commit. Should I just back away and let him firgue it out ? I’m just confused and want as many opinions as possible

I honestly would walk away at this point. Someone who doesn't bat at eye at spending hundreds/thousands of dollars on a single gift but won't enter into an exclusive relationship with you after 4 months either has some weird ulterior motives or isn't emotionally mature enough to be dating. Don't waste your time.

Edit: although regarding the top comment on this thread...has he ever made an reference to taking you on any vacations/trips?

It’s as if he’s scared of commitment . In regards to to the trafficking . I’ve never gotten that vibe from him or any vacation offers but I’ll be careful just in case wasn’t aware that was a thing before today .

Or maybe he is just not stingy with money but is doing the smart thing and taking it slow? I don't understand, this is textbook being smart about a relationship. Why is it so hard to believe what he says about his feelings?

They go for a couple thousand or more (can hit $100k if it's platinum with diamonds), depending on the material and the size. My Datejust 41 was around $7k. I don't see myself buying someone I'm not seriously interested in a real Rolex watch 4.5 months in.

There's a possibility that the watch is fake too. There are way too many fakes out there that can look close to the real thing. OP should ask for a receipt to make sure, given what other people have mentioned in the comments.

If he was obviously rich to the extent that he can drop thousands upon thousands of dollars on “friends,” I feel like OP would know and would feel less weird about the relationship/wouldn’t post this question

The fact that he gave her this watch plus a poem is a huge fucking sign that he’s into her. I did a similar thing with my current girlfriend. I wasn’t ready to commit and I didn’t want to rush into a relationship. It took a few months before we even started to “officially” date, but now we’re getting married.

I think that OP is just worrying too much. Relax and enjoy the ride. You’ll see where things go yourself. Nobody here can tell you what will happen.

Uh... by 23 years old most people start having enough life experience IMO to understand how interpersonal relationships work and how to set proper boundaries. Someone who doesn't have enough common sense to not gift something this extravagant to someone they don't really know is someone who isn't ready to be dating.

Yet, the comments section here are pretty fast to throw out drug dealer and sex trafficker. The note he left makes it pretty obvious he has no clue how to progress in a relationship. Either drug dealer or sex trafficker wouldn't call OP a close "friend" to accomplish their goals.

Someone who doesn't have enough common sense to not gift something this extravagant to someone they don't really know is someone who isn't ready to be dating.

This probably bugs me the most. It's obvious he's inexperienced at relationships, but at the same time he shouldn't even try because he doesn't have enough knowledge for one? How will he learn then? Can we please cut people some slack in relationships instead of being so quick to say they're horrible people?

You think he's inexperienced and clueless enough to end a poem he wrote for the girl he's into, which is accompanied by an uber expensive watch, with "friendship"? Ignore everything else, how does that part make sense?

I am not one of the people who outright said he MUST be a terrible person. But these are warning flags. What he is doing is confusing and does not make sense. You don't need relationship experience to know that an expensive gift and a poem mean moving the relationship forward, and calling somebody a friend means moving it backward. Logically, it does not make sense. Even if he is inexperienced, usually it manifests in one thing or the other (moving too fast with too much of a gesture, or being timid and indecisive and moving too slow). This is a mix of both. So when people see this weird mix of behaviors, they try to attribute it to a cause. For some people, the plausible cause is sex trafficker's tactic. For others, it's love bombing. And for you, it's just inexperience. I personally don't buy that it's just inexperience (see reasons above). I don't know for sure what the true cause is, but I would advise her to be cautious. If the relationship is not progressing the way she wants anyway, she should cut it off regardless of the weird, expressive gifts.

When I was 24 I did something similar, I was in a LDR with a woman from England. Often times I tried to show her how appreciative I was for having her in my life. She was grateful, but at the same time unfazed because she didn't care much for these things. I didn't have much life experience and didn't think about the overall circumstance of spending a lot of money on gifts and going out of my way to do things for her until later on in life.

​

Have a discussion with him, find out what his intentions are, and talk to him about the notion of getting gifts that are way too over the top.

It's way too early, if you guys do decide to get in a relation he might feel the need to always get something of that same caliber.

It wouldn't feel right to you if you weren't able to deliver with gifts on the same level ( guys usually don't care about this stuff) but still, its just a matter of principal.

The thing that gets me, is he's the one who's insisting on friendship. I'd believe that a guy could be clueless enough to not realize a girl who's not ready for commitment won't be bought over by thousand dollar watches, but when he's the one insisting on friendship and buying her thousand dollar watches? That's a very strange level of inexperience for a 23 year old. I'm not saying he's necessarily a sex trafficker, he might be just rich and looking for a fuckbuddy with no commitment or something in her and is trying to buy that with gifts instead of being upfront about it or something, but I have real doubts this was just inexperience talking.

And? He goes from not being interested at all to giving her a gift worth thousands of dollars. It is reasonable to feel uncomfortable by this and unless OP is rolling in money herself, it could come off as him "buying" her affection. That's not normal in most healthy relationships.

...did you give her a watch worth thousands of dollars early on? Because that's a weird gift. I mean, good for you that it worked out but I don't know a single person, including myself, who wouldn't be highly uncomfortable receiving such a gift from someone I barely know.

Please don’t stay with someone giving you mixed signals. The man that wants to be with you will not have you doubting the status of your relationship. Give the watch back, tell him you can’t accept something so extravagant from a friend and tell him you need some space. Think about how you want to be treated in a relationship and then you can ask him if he’s willing to give you that. If not, move on.

I came here to say this. Friends don't give friends Rolex watches. No one should be with anyone that doesn't know what they want...because it's not healthy for anyone. He needs to get rid of his baggage or needs to hit the road with it.

...and that's what the watch is about, isn't it? He gives you something expensive and prestigious as payment for waiting. So, you're willing to wait a little more. A couple months from now, it might be a pair of diamond earrings--not the teeny, tiny studs that can only be seen up close, but a pair that can be seen from space. So, you're willing to wait a little more...

Question: do you two have equal earning power?

There's a "hooker-y" vibe here that bothers me. Do you see? Healthy people keep other people around by being kind and loving them; he is not healthy, so he's resorting to material things of terrific value.

To repeat: he can't give you what you value, so he's hoping (assuming?) that material goods will do just as well. It doesn't sound like you do, so the next question is: are you willing to be paid while he works out his shit?

Frankly? Waiting him out does neither of you any good. As time goes by, you'll find yourself buying more and more into the idea of "but he'll be perfect if only he changed! I just need the Magic Words (tm) to make him change!"

And that's a bad place to be.

And him? By being endlessly "understood" and handled like Sevres porcelain, he has no incentive to actually deal with his problems: with desirable you essentially locked down and waiting for him, he's free to endlessly agonize about his Tragical Romantic Historie (A Play That Lasts A Lifetime). He won't get better until there are consequences to his dysfunctional behavior.

I mean, is he even in therapy to address any of this? (He can certainly afford it!) No?

That's your answer. He has no intention of addressing this, and let's face it: society has taught both of you that it's the woman's job to handle men's feelings for them, so he has every expectation that you will do just that.

You have to tell him that it won't work and you are breaking up with him. He will promise to change, but...he won't. You need to go no contact for a few months, to avoid all the feelingsbombs he will suddenly produce if nothing else.

P.S. The Rolex? I'm a proponent of keeping gifts unless there are explicit terms attached that dictate otherwise (like engagement rings.) However, that is dependent on how comfortable you are with the gift, so there is no right or wrong answer here.

I’ve spoken to him about to the gift . He says that he’s confused about his feelings and whether he’s ready to enter a relationship and that he’s been turned off a little by the idea of a girlfriend after two toxic relationships back to back. He assured me that he had no intention to confuse me but to do something nice because I was so understanding that he wanted to take it slow. And that the watch wasn’t a big deal (financially) for him but when I asked about to poem and the “friendship” he said he knows how he feels about me but has conflicting feelings if he wants to seriously commit. Should I just back away and let him firgue it out ? I’m just confused and want as many opinions as possible

I think you should back away and let him sort himself out. It’s unfair of him to want to treat you like a girlfriend but not commit to a relationship, he either wants it or he does not, and IMO 4+ months is enough time to know if you want to be in a relationship with someone. We all have baggage to deal with, I would urge you to be wary of men who use their baggage as an excuse to confuse you or keep you trailing them while they decide if you’re worth their time.

Putting aside the question of whether or not the watch is real, fact of the matter is that he just doesn’t want a commitment to you.

He’s sending mixed signals because he enjoys the relationship enough to keep you around, but not enough to turn it into something serious.

Him saying that he’ll “never” commit again is signaling that he won’t commit to you, ever.

Now getting back to the present, a Rolex watch is really, REALLY expensive. It’s the kind of present you do not give to someone you’ve known for 4 and a half months. So I think you should give it back and move on from the relationship.

I’ve spoken to him about to the gift . He says that he’s confused about his feelings and whether he’s ready to enter a relationship and that he’s been turned off a little by the idea of a girlfriend after two toxic relationships back to back. He assured me that he had no intention to confuse me but to do something nice because I was so understanding that he wanted to take it slow. And that the watch wasn’t a big deal (financially) for him but when I asked about to poem and the “friendship” he said he knows how he feels about me but has conflicting feelings if he wants to seriously commit. Should I just back away and let him firgue it out ? I’m just confused and want as many opinions as possible

First off, he's saying that he doesn't trust you. Not because of anything you've done, but because he's holding you responsible for the actions of others. That doesn't bode well for his future treatment of you. I guarantee you that holding you accountable for the actions of his exes isn't going to stop at being wishy-washy about your relationship status. Not trusting you when you've done nothing to warrant his mistrust is a red flag.

​

Secondly, whatever he wants to call it you guys are in a relationship. He is playing the role of a boyfriend, leading you on, and letting you (really he is actively encouraging you to) grow increasingly emotionally attached to him. He can call it whatever he wants, but that doesn't change what it is. Trying to leave it ambiguous is a way for him to lessen his own guilt about casually hurting you. It's a way for him to try to escape any responsibility for how he may effect you emotionally. Not wanting to take responsibility for how he effects you is a major red flag.

Third, and possibly most importantly, the Rolex is a major, *major*, red flag. There are two scenarios here, either he spent an obscene amount on a gift for someone he can't even commit to wanting to date, or he's lying to you about getting you an authentic Rolex. It's pretty obvious what the issue is if he is lying about it being real, which is that he's perfectly ok with lying to and deceiving you. If it's real, he is both incredibly irresponsible with money (I don't care if he is a millionaire, it's irresponsible to give a high value gift like that to someone you're "just considering" dating) and he is doing something called "Love Bombing" (showering you with *over the top* gifts and affection to win you over, this is something that usually occurs before the person becomes comfortable enough in the idea that you won't leave the relationship at which point they will change their treatment of you). Whether the watch is real, or he just wants you to believe it is real, he is using it to "Love Bomb" you, and that should be setting off alarm bells like crazy because it is a *very* common tactic in budding abusive relationships.

Give the watch back (no matter what, give it back), and walk away. If you really want to be in a relationship with him, set boundaries for yourself. I can tell you right now that he's never going to respect you or your feelings if you don't set boundaries for yourself about what you see as acceptable behavior. Explain to him that you're not ok with the ambiguous relationship status, and that it isn't alright for him to hold you accountable for his exes behaviors. Tell him if he wants to be with you he needs to actually commit to being with you, and that you're ending things until he is ready to do that. Honestly, I don't think you should give him that chance at all, but that's up to you. I really don't like blaming people who claim they've been abused, but considering his actions towards you I'm suspicious if he was the one abused or the abuser in his past relationships. A lot of what you're describing is very typical early relationship behavior for someone who is abusive. It wouldn't surprise me to find out that he abused his exes, and after he gets done with you he'll tell the next girl how you abused him as well.

Casual relationships that incorporate trappings of commitment and intimacy are now red flags of irresponsibility?

A Rolex is now either fake or love bombing? Holy shit. It's easier than you think to spend a Rolex every month just going out. Nothing wrong with a nice gift. OP's bf even made sure she wouldn't take it the wrong way.

Go ahead and demand instant and unconditional devotion and commitment from everybody you date for a few months. Some people need time.

These things
Could be a possibility though and I think he’s just trying to warn OP of what it might be. Giving her all
The theoretical. Of course
Some or all of it may not be true but that’s not the point it’s just the point that OP has all the information.

Yeah but still red flags. A Rolex is like $6000+ minimum. Someone you've known for 4 months gives you a gift.like that but won't commit is very questionable. I'm gonna say is no reasonable and anytime I've heard of a situation like this where a girl is gifted something very expensive and there isn't a commitment, it turns into expectations or is a way to groom the female for sex trafficking. Becareful. This is a weird situation.

How do you know it's not real? Is the rest of your advice based on the assumption that the watch is fake because your telling her to walk away from someone who wants to take things slow but likes her enough that he is willing to buy her a rolex.

I only disagree that it can only be one. If he's legit, there can only be one but the fact that these two dynamics are trying to coexist, pretty much tells us what we need to know. There's a big fat lie in there somewhere be it the rolex being real or the dude being single

Just out of curiosity, have you ever given someone you've been dating for 4 1/2 months a gift worth $4,000-$7,000? If so, how did that work out? Also, were you 23 years old at the time? If so, how could you afford it?

Also, although it's been 4.5 months, you don't want to be in a relationship with that person, and want to be friends and get to know them first. Because after almost 5 months, they're a total stranger who you're not ready to be more than friends with, but also so dear to you that you'd spend thousands on them for no particular reason!

/u/reddit_lurker_45 - tell him that you're confused, because the poem and gift say he's interested, but his words in the note and in conversation say he's not looking for a relationship, and you're not sure what to make of that. He's the only one who can clarify his intentions for you.

If he's decided he's interested, great! Congratulations!

If he's not sure, why the hell is he giving you poems and gifts? Get out of there.

If he's not interested, why the hell is he giving you poems and gifts? Get out of there.

I’ve spoken to him about to the gift . He says that he’s confused about his feelings and whether he’s ready to enter a relationship and that he’s been turned off a little by the idea of a girlfriend after two toxic relationships back to back. He assured me that he had no intention to confuse me but to do something nice because I was so understanding that he wanted to take it slow. And that the watch wasn’t a big deal (financially) for him but when I asked about to poem and the “friendship” he said he knows how he feels about me but has conflicting feelings if he wants to seriously commit. Should I just back away and let him firgue it out ? I’m just confused and want as many opinions as possible

If hes not sure after almost 5 months then hes not invested in the relationship. Back off and let him figure it out on his own without dragging you down.

Edit to say: I was in a relationship with someone who "wasnt sure" for 2 and a half years. It was an exhausting mess of always trying to convince them that I was worth dating. Dont be in a relationship where you have to convince someone to date you

lmao who the fuck does that?! A poem and rolex in 4 months and he just wants to be friends? u need to seriously tell this dude to stop playing u. I gotta go soon but here’s what u do op. U give this dramatic nerdass his shit back, tell him how u feel about these gifts. let him know u don’t feel comfortable accepting them without knowing that he feels the same way u feel about him. proceed as u will from there. *word

/thread

lmao who the fuck does that?! A poem and rolex in 4 months and he just wants to be friends? u need to seriously tell this dude to stop playing you. im oversimplying really hard bc I gotta go soon but here’s what u do op. U give this dramatic nerdass his shit back, tell him how u feel about these gifts. let him know u don’t feel comfortable accepting them without knowing that he feels the same way u feel about him. proceed as u will from there.

Watches hold value very well, especially rolex. Many models sell for MORE than retail on the second hand market simply because they are so hard to buy new (limited supply). The ones that aren't in limited supply sell for up to 90-95% of original price.

People who have managed to establish themselves by 23 have done so by not dropping thousands on one gift in a relationship that's not serious. Unless he's a trust fund baby (and that money won't last long if he's spending it this way) this isn't a thing.

Why not? Some of the people I know who are the most irresponsible with money are young self made millionaires, and a couple of them are about 23. Just because you are good at making money does not mean you know how the value of money or how human relationships work.

That's a very, very rare case and not something to base average life advice on. The most likely scenario is that he's not wealthy (which I'm betting is the case since she was concerned about how much he spent on the gift) and the Rolex is a fake. Maybe 5% of the population is in a position to casually give such gifts, and the percentage of those people that do is also very small.

Typically, if someone was dating a wealthy person, they'd include some reference in the comment to their income disparity and how this factors in. I have friends that are very well off that give expensive gifts without expecting reciprocation, but I've never felt weird about it because I know it's in line with their general lifestyle (and they have no problem with my gifts which aren't as expensive).

I want to tell you a story about me and my life. Mainly about my father. He and my mother just divorced and my dad has been dating. He "falls in love" very quickly, as in he become fast-infatuated with anyone who treats him even a little nice, because he is lonely. This has nothing to do with the girl, in my opinion. He is just idolizing her, pretending she's perfect and amazing because that's what he wants-- when really he barely knows her. He also throws money at them. Crazy purchases for other women in the past include a car loan, and co-signing on an apartment.

At the same time, his more logical brain knows this is moving too fast, he's confused, and not ready to settle down. He doesn't want to feel locked in to a choice yet.

That's where he's at with his current girlfriend. He wants to see her every day, he calls her every day, he buys her clothes, dinners, massages. They've only been dating like two months! But she wants to be exclusive and he's not ready, in fact he's still messaging other women and inviting them out.

Something is wrong about the way your guy is acting. Maybe it is some sort of scam or lure. Maybe he is a cold-blooded manipulator. Maybe he's just confused, hurt and selfish, like my dad. I think that might be a best-case scenario, and you still shouldn't want to date that guy. In any case he doesn't sound like someone you should invest too heavily in. I would keep my distance.

Regardless if the watch is a knock off or not, do you even want a Rolex? Like, if someone asked you if you needed or wanted something, where would a Rolex land? Forgot about the Rolex, how about a watch? Did you tell him you were in the market for one?

If he was truly into you then he would of had a more thoughtful and considered gift. Unless you were commenting that you wanted a new watch.

I stayed with someone who gave me mixed signals for over a year and it was a nightmare. He'd say he want to be friends, but then ask to be my valentine, send cutesy love lyrics saying it reminded him of me, and so on. Every time I asked he'd just repeat that he wanted to be friends.

It was awful waking up every day and not knowing if that days boundaries were in the friend area or if they expanded into the romantic area. And every night I'd go to sleep, full of anxiety wondering if I said something wrong.

Every time he became distant, I immediately thought that it was my fault and would pester him with questions about if it was my fault, and every time he became close, I was overjoyed.

It was extremely emotionally and mentally exhausting and I can't believe I did that for over a year.

Please, leave. Don't wait for him. Give the watch back and move onto something knew. I wish I could've spent my year looking for somebody that deserved me.

There’s an old saying: “When someone shows you their true self, pay attention.” In this case, to me, it reveals a confused person who has trouble speaking his feelings. If you can handle that for years/your married life, then dive in. For me, it would be a dealbreaker and I would have to move on. Playing mystery games like this isnt my bag.

Oyster Perpetual is 5400 CAD, that’s 3800-4000USD on the Rolex website. You can often find watches for less than the price on the website. You go to a dealer or a well known jeweler and you’ll get deals, I’ve collected a bunch of high end watches and finding one for less is easy.

Came here to say maybe this guy is just rich and dorky and is expecting OP to read between the lines, so I was glad to see someone else that doesn't assume he is a drug lord... but your username does not make me feel better about us having a shared opinion lol

Hey man, I’ve been through something like this before. I’d been seeing this guy for a while and he would also get me gifts that were more expensive than “friends” would get each other and he would write me poems too (what a coincidence!). I knew I had feelings for him but he was always cautious about taking any kind of step like towards that. I ended up getting involved with someone else and he got unreasonably mad at me and we don’t talk anymore, which I should’ve seen coming probably with his constant hesitation. Hope the best for you though!

After your edit, I think it's fair after 4 months to be like, "I love the gift, but I know how I feel about you. Being so confused is really hurtful to me. I'm happy to give you some space so that you can sort out your feelings, let me know what you decide." And then leave him alone. He's too old to be toying around with an idea for 4+ months.

I would start seeing other people as well and casually let him know that. Since your relationship is casual it doesn’t matter anyway and if he gets mad it’s proof that he is trying to buy you gifts without commitment. He’s either buying fake shit, overcompensating for something bad, or has mommy and daddy money and will probably be a pain in the ass to date. The quickest way to find out is to pull back and give notions of being fine with the casual friendship while you can go out with others and do what you want. You don’t have to actually do that but there’s no reason that he should be burnt at that and it’s a major red flag if he is.

Take a minute to think about this gift. The cheapest authentic Rolex is about 5k. I don’t know about you, but I don’t buy 5k gifts for people I hardly know. This guy hasn’t even known you for more than 6 months.

I don’t want to sound harsh but for someone that doesn’t seem to trust women, the last thing you do is buy a woman an expensive gift. You do the opposite. You buy a small gift because you want to know if they are going to take advantage of you. I can’t think of anyone deserving a Rolex in a matter of six months. Don’t kid yourself.

Perhaps it is not difficult for him financially, and it’s not about being cheap, but if someone is confused about their feelings do you think buying a girl an expensive gift is going to simplify those feelings?

You do the math.

If he doesn’t know how he feels and if he says he doesn’t want a relationship—guess what? He doesn’t want to commit or be exclusive. This is what it comes down to. (i.e., I still want to mess around.)

Make sure you don't go out of the country with this dude, you may regret it.. This is one of the most used tactics by pimps to abduct girls, if that's the case you might want to get more info on the guy and imo if you find anything even remotely fishy, I advise you end this relationship and RUN!

My guess is he doesn't intend to ever commit to you, but gave you a fake Rolex to make you think he will eventually and keep you on a leash so you don't mess around with anyone else.

So first I would see if you can authenticate the watch just to see if he gave you a real one or not. A fake Rolex would tell you a lot about his intentions. If it's real, I would give him a hard deadline on when you plan to move on...say something like 2 more months. If he wants to be with you, he'll commit by then. And if he doesn't, or if he's still figuring things out, oh well. You gave him enough time. You can't stick around just because you're hoping someone will change their mind for you.

Bottom line: I like to think of relationships like a "hell yes". If he's not saying "hell yes" to you, then he's really saying "hell no" regardless of whatever he says on the surface.

Ive been there. It worked out in the end but not without two breakups and a lot of time. He gave mixed signals too- had me cook dinner for his couple friends - that’s a gf thing. We’ve been together 6y. But broke up once at 3m and another time at 2y. Took 6m to call me gf. Issues continued for two years of not bringing me, then my kids around his family etc
Tells me now he loved me since fourth date —

He was believing he should be alone for a while because he was so recently divorced- like wishing he didn’t meet me two seconds after moving out - I told him the right persons more important than timing -but that’s the kinda thing you can’t just tell someone. They gotta learn it themselves

This might sound silly but you said he wants to become good friends first, maybe the end of the poem is his way of telling you you've reached the point of true friendship and the gift was to say I'm ready for the next step. That's just one way I could interpret it, I'm quite high and may be very wrong in my assumption. I would just ask him what the gift meant and gauge his response. Wishing you the best.

Getting involved with mister confused is going to likely cause you pain because if he cannot trust himself enough to know he can be involved or leave when needed, yet is encouraging you to deeply attach to him. It’s like he’s trying to encourage(manipulate) you into being serious about him while you can be an option. Usually being with people who don’t know themselves or what they want can hurt a lot.

What you have doesn’t sound like friendship, it’s just the facade you’re calling this strange courtship. If you’ve been sleeping with him and giving him more than a “friend” would then this is just his was of positioning you under ambiguity so he doesn’t have to be decisive. You might get hurt if you’re hoping for more. It might behoove you to try to see other people yourself and keep your options open too, because if you are just seeing him you may get too attached and give him too much exclusivity, just be completely up front about it.

You’re both so young. No matter what, if it’s good or bad, you’ll both be okay and just try to learn from this.

Well, you need to talk to him. If he just wants to be friends that means you can and should be seeing other people instead of waiting around. If he doesn't want to be in a relationship then you are available. Is he okay with that?

Pull your feelings out of it and leverage more stuff. Have fun. Find a serious boyfriend elsewhere if you want commitment. Enjoy what you’re in now as a learning experience knowing it will not last forever. You will be happy and ok.

I think no one is mentioning the fact that you are 21 and your BF is 23. That is really really young to get engaged and married. I am not at all being judgmental. People can get married at any age of their own choosing.

My point is, if your SO is unsure of getting married.. at 23.. that is totally understandable.

And if you are asking for a serious relationship at 21 and he is hesitating or hedging or trying to give you an expensive gift to show you he cares but still is not ready for a lifelong commitment, that seems okay to be honest.

It does not at all sound like just because your BF bought you a Rolex and even then is waffling about long term commitment. At 23 years old, this seems reasonable and not at all shady.

What if the man is genuinely fucked up after his last two relationships and he does like her but he felt the same way with the last two, so he is scared out of his mind of how bad it could get. Mabe the watch as a present is how he was conditioned to show feelings. Mabe expensive presents are what his last two relationships demanded. He is only 23 he is still learning.

Also, I'll point out that generally speaking, giving expensive gifts early on is a big red flag.

Let's assume it's nothing nearly as serious as human trafficking (which is much closer to most of us than we realize!). Still, there are a few things that, early on, are huge red flags pointing to immaturity and the type of person that doesn't know boundaries, would be a bad relationship and likely a stalker, etc. if it were to end.

Some prominent ones are: Coming on too fast, too early, too intense, laying on any kind of "now you owe me" factors; not taking "no". Regardless of what else may be going on, this is a bad sign and you should distance yourself clearly and definitively from him.

OP, has it occurred to you at any point that you may in fact be the "side piece," and that's why he doesn't want to commit? It appears that he wants to placate you and keep you around, and he thought that buying you something shiny and expensive would keep you happy enough. Just something to think about.

I was struggling with mixed signals in a relationship. My therapist asked me what I was getting out of the relationship, and I told her. She asked me, “Is that enough, right now?” I said yes. She said there may be a day when I decide I want more, and if he’s not willing to give more, and it’s okay to end it.

Rolex. New Real $5000. Used $3000. Fake $300
And those real prices were starts at.
I don’t care if real, beautiful vintage or awesome replica, and no big deal to afford any of those levels for some. Still an odd gift.

Some people are givers and some are takers. Some have referred to givers as pimps. While this is a method used by pimps to gain control it is totally unfair to think that all generous people are pimps. I think four and a half months is too soon to accept a Rolex watch as a gift. Flowers, dinners out are one thing but a Rolex watch is over the top for this short amount of time. I think when he's ready to commit himself to you it may be a more appropriate time.

Nope!!! He’s got commitment issues. Or there’s someone else and you’re the back up. All I can say is date other people and don’t make yourself as available to him and see what happens. I’ve been in that place and he told me he was going to be with this other girl after 8 years of the back and forth.

I have been in his shoes, and know how labels add expectations (conscious and subconscious) that can ruin a bond. It sounds like, from what you’ve shared, that he truly does care for you and is doing his best to communicate as much as possible. Sometimes, when people have been hurt, it’s hard to process where certain emotions are coming from and thus the whole “confused” thing comes into play. I would say that it sounds like his heart is shy, and he’s wanting to protect it, and protect the bond you’re building. Give it some time ♥️ relax, get to know him, enjoy your time together. Hopefully he’ll be able to relax his guards soon.

I can't believe all the suggestions in here. When I was 24 I had gone through a bad relationship/break up and was dating someone but freaked out when he called me his girlfriend due to my own shit. We talked it out and whatever but my point is he is probably confused and still really messed up over his past relationships. It's up to you if you want to wait it out, pull back, or peace out.

Honestly, whether this is due to inexperience or being a sex trafficker or he's legitimately just manipulatively trying to keep you on line and committed to him before he's ready to commit to you, this sounds like way more trouble than it's worth at this point.

I lean on the side of manipulation or rich idiocy, and in terms of that I think you should return the watch and tell him that you like him, but you think this gift is inappropriate for the level of relationship you two have on his insistence and that you would feel weird keeping it, and that you are having deeper feelings for him and if he wants to cultivate only friendship, then you two are on different pages and looking for different things, so you think it's time for you to move on. Essentially, let him know the score and platonically break up with him and fade. If he says anything about wanting to date you but later or whatever, say that you're sorry but you don't feel comfortable with that sort of arrangement, and if he offers to date you now, point out that you don't want him to feel manipulated into a relationship he doesn't want to be in either, you're just telling him what you're doing so he knows why you're bowing out at this point and to return the watch.

If you're legitimately worried about the sex trafficking possibility due to this or possibly other red flags people have brought up in the comments, make sure you do this in a public place and have a friend somewhere in the backwings, and don't leave alone. If you're leaning towards it just being manipulation, don't date him if he offers. If you're leaning towards him just being stupid to what signals he's giving and he gets down and honest with you about timelines and how he wants to be in a relationship with you and some whatever is making him nervous or something, then it's your call if you want to try to make it work but I think it's more trouble than it's worth and the risk of manipulation is a bit too high.

Give him the watch back, citing that you're uncomfortable accepting such an expensive gift from someone you're not in a committed relationship to, but keep the poem and pin in on your fridge or put it above your bed or something. Show that you can't be bought, but that you care, and that the only way to your heart is through genuine care and emotional transparency.

Holy mixed signals. Pull back and don’t get too attached. Let him lead the pace. Prepare to get your heart broken if you fall too fast. (Speaking from someone who’s been the one that fell hard and the other person wasn’t ready for a relationship)

A Rolex isn’t out of the question price wise. You can make over 80k as an engineer coming out. You can also earn huge bonuses depending on what type of engineer you are. A fraction of your bonuses as a nuclear engineer would allow buying a Rolex for example. It is a little ridiculous of a purchase to make for someone you aren’t that serious about though.

He's confused and wounded. If you truly like him and want to commit to a future relationship, then be patient. He sounds like he cares for you, but is just worried about getting too attached only to end up getting hurt again. Keep being a good friend and whatever goes on between the two of you will grow naturally.

He explained that he has been in two toxic relationship back to back and isn’t sure if he wants to commit right now , i just do want to put more time and energy into this relationship and it goes nowhere

HOLLY SHIT there are so many confused backwards people on this comment section, how about you just take it as a thoughtful gift? He is clearly valuing your friendship over just the title of (boyfriend girlfriend) to where you just want the label, really look at yourself as to what you want, he clearly gave you the watch to Value you as a friend and the poem to show you how he feels, while also stating that he values your friendship which is something that could still happen(and is the most important aspect) in a relationship. Try to be more spiritual in a relationship and not just look at everything as what traditionally should be happening in the relationship or what titles are given to what just enjoy your time with each other and if that evolves to something deeper than cool. REMEMBER hes your boyFRIEND, the friend part always comes first and though it's nice to have control over your emotions and people around you that's not always what could happen and it's best to just go with the flow and embrace that this person is in your life for however long they may be, there is no black and white with how you should approach or deal with a relationship. as long as you're honest and caring it will always be a healthy relationship✌

That’s sweet and all but he’s not treating her in a friendly manner. And neither are you. Her gut is rightfully saying this gift is fucked up.

I fully believe friendship is underrated, and it’s one of the best relationships in life. But a friendly gesture doesn’t include a quasi-romantic poem and an incredibly over the top gift that would throw even the most poised of us for a loop.

Great and unusual things can happen when people open themselves up to less cynicism and caring for others. This ain’t it.

I never understand it when people say they don't want to get too attached, as if there was any way to choose that kind of thing. When you fall in love, you get attached, and you might get hurt because of it, but isn't it simply part of life? It sounds absurd to me to somewhat restrain your feelings. A 4 and a half months, both of your minds and hearts still have so much room to change and evolve. Take the Rolex (knock-off or not, it's sweet), and the poem, and the relationship as it is and give yourself some time to see how it will evolve. It is so incredibly early to draw any conclusions. Enjoy what you have and ask yourself that kind of question again in, say, 6 months. Why not?

Oh, and BTW, given both of your ages, there is a very high chance that he is just as afraid of "being too attached" and facing rejection as you are, and that him saying that he's not ready means exactly that.