01:09:49mod6:does anyone know if TxDP "multi-signature transactions" have been implemented in bitcoind or whatever from bitcoin.org? | That page was last updated: This page was last modified on 18 January 2013, at 14:57.

03:00:43mod6:so as in the Lamport scheme: RNG produces 256 p & q respectively (512 hashes total), each 256 bits in size these combined are the privkey (p1->256+q1->256 )all of these together equal the privkey. and the pubkey is each of the 512 p's & q's hashed (256 bit) and concatenated together?

03:11:30asciilifeform:exercise for the (very) alert reader: come up with a scheme where you can prove the actual number of distinct shareholders, given their pubkeys (allowed to assume they aren't all sockpuppets)

03:12:44asciilifeform:that is, for all pubkeys, for each - can prove that it is a share. and that no others exist.

03:13:05mod6:does this matter in the case where the dealer is a shithead?

03:39:39mod6:Each Lamport public key can only be used to sign one single message, which means many keys have to be published if many messages are to be signed. But a hash tree can be used on those public keys, publishing the top hash of the hash tree instead. This increases the size of the resulting signature, since parts of the hash tree have to be included in the signature, but it makes it possible to publish a single hash that then can be used to verify an

04:04:53mod6:i mean, the idea of a 'successor of unix' is appleaing to me, eventhough I <3 *nix (in general compared to whatever, windows). it would be amazing to have something abstracted to the level where it can handle physical systems and be virtualized too and be next gen

04:09:39asciilifeform:people will put up with astounding levels of dysfunction because 'they want to get things done.'

04:09:53mod6:hahaha. yah but people are creatures of habit. but thats only because it's been allowed to persist. if people were only given type A new keyboard (dvorak) then that'd be used. kinda like only left hockey sticks in soivet union.

04:11:22mod6:i never personally switched to dvorak because the friend that i have who did had the issue of trying to constantly switch everyone elses computer to dvorak if he wanted to use it.

04:21:13mod6:asciilifeform: so we must go back to the form of the turing machine or DFA to re-invent the modern os? or do you think even that must be re-thought because of the possibility of quantum computers?

04:25:15mod6:( i like this thread, even if it leads no-where in particular. just curious, searching for ideas. )

04:35:17mod6:ahh i see your comment and reply in that article: I believe that efficiency in computer design is a false god. Give me an “inefficient” but responsive and “Seven-Laws Compliant” computer any day of the week in place of the monstrous PC, that race car which regards steering wheel input as mere advice and so eagerly speeds off cliffs and into embankments. << hahaha

21:21:00nubbins`:i sold some poor EU guy a rare casascius coin a while back. he insisted on insuring it for its full value, and was very sad when he had to pay hundreds of dollars before they released his package

21:34:00nubbins`:mircea_popescu: just finished; we're *all* misrepresenting the situation. the artists, the art dealers, the museum-going public, and every single person who commented on that post, yourself included. this is why "what is art" is an interesting topic for discussion; everyone colors it with their own experience.

22:27:26nubbins`:i dunno, man. maybe i'm applying too much of my interpretation of your "system" into your words, but it seems like you're flat-out stating that it's not art unless someone in a position of power or influence over the artist decrees it to be so

22:29:07nubbins`:about five years ago, i moved into an apartment and found a large piece of wall panelling with a picture painted on the back side of it. it's currently gracing the wall of my living room.

22:29:32nubbins`:no name, no identifying marks whatsoever, no way for me to ever find out who made it or to contact them in any way

22:30:21nubbins`:to propose that i hold any position relative to its creator, above or below, is simply nonsense

22:43:12nubbins`:the natural extrapolation of your argument is that you can walk up to a woman weeping at the beauty of a painting, or of a spoken word, and politely inform her that what she has observed is, in fact, not art

23:09:41mircea_popescu:<nubbins`> surely there must be something that makes mp a good judge and nubbins a poor one? << this implies that perhaps nubbins could move upwards in society, and contains implicit an equivalency of substance between the two. this isn't an accepted point between us.

23:23:19mircea_popescu:but this sort of drawer novel, as it was known, doesn't exist in the sense of art.

23:23:27mircea_popescu:it exists in the sense of masturbation, or w/e the author does in his privacy.

23:23:47nubbins`:so it's art if it reaches an audience of a certain size

23:24:03mircea_popescu:think of an old painting being discovered in a stahs. what is the question first and foremost asked ? is it something as to the paionting itself or is it as to the pedigree of the owner ?

23:24:12mircea_popescu:nobody goes "i found a 500 year old kinda cool painting"

23:24:24mircea_popescu:it only matters once it becomes "an old da vinci has been discovered"

23:24:49mircea_popescu:audience has nothing to do with it. this is wholly a medieval-inspired problem of probatory.