Atljet60 wrote:I wonder why this didn't come out yesterday when we could have addressed discipline. The fact that no discipline was taken can cause a divide. Patterson missed a practice and got cut. Guess it all depends on who's doing the mishap.

Whoa, that isn't what happened. Patterson went through a team walkthrough and didn't like being behind Allen on the depth chart, so he walked out of the facility and never came back for 2 days...that's very different from "missing a practice." Patterson wouldn't answer the phone calls from Rex or Idzik for almost 2 days...Let's not make matters sound worse by making stuff up...

Geno went to the meeting just as it was ending. he got the times wrong and still spent an hour of make-up time with Marty and David Lee until everyone felt comfortable with what he missed. He didn't skip, go AWOL, and never follow up coaches.

Atljet60 wrote:The time zone change does not come into play coming from the east. Simply put, anyone gains time traveling west and lose time traveling east. Besides Rex practices keeping the time the same when traveling to the west coast. What does this show about leadership?

I agree that it appears he is losing the confidence of his teammates. Reports are his teammates were very annoyed when he showed up late. It's one thing to be standing with them side-by-side while struggling and it is another to struggle, be late, and not appear to be on the same page with the team or teammates. This puts a huge crack in what they were building, IMO, and once you lose your teammates, you're toast. I think his time and chances here are quickly drying up and this could be the beginning of the end. It really can be.

fwiw - it sounds like geno wasn't the only one who was late. seemed a few players went to see a movie and got the times mixed up. not excusing the absence in any way. but i'm not sure this is something that would rip apart the team.

As soon as you lose confidence from your teammates, I'll say it again, you're toast. You can play bad, think Trent Dilfer those 6-7 games they went without scoring a offensive TD in Baltimore in 2000, but as long as the team has your back, you're fine...but when cracks start forming in your teammates having your back, you're in trouble. If Geno isn't solid this week, Jets will have no choice but to grab another guy (I already think they're at that point).

The problem is, Vick admitted this week to not preparing to play in games. I'm not sure how you hook a wagon up to that horse.

Idzik will need to try again next year, IMO, with a young guy and a new vet. I dont think you can bring Vick back now knowing the type of person he is, a slacker....

Teammates grumbling about Geno Smith’s leadership

Posted by Darin Gantt on October 9, 2014, 5:27 AM EDT6111fa8c95b6cc4e3ce753c2c9378a46APRex Ryan might be giving quarterback Geno Smith a pass, but some of his teammates are not.

According to Manish Mehta of the New York Daily News, there are already grumbles about the way Smith has handled his mistakes of the last two weeks, which include cursing at a fan and missing a team meeting while at the movies.

The report said several team members were “not thrilled with how the quarterback has acted recently.” One of them tied his sloppy play last week against the Chargers to the missed meeting, saying Smith didn’t look prepared.

Coach Rex Ryan was asked about Smith’s leadership and command of the offense, and offered a defense that was tepid.

“Is it 100%?” Ryan said. “Like some of the things like missing a meeting? Obviously that’s not typical of what a leader would do.”

Still, the Jets are sticking with Smith, even though his play on the field has been sloppy as well.

He’s tied for the league lead in interceptions and turnovers, and only Titans quarterback Jake Locker has a lower completion percentage.

Asked whether he deserved to keep the job, Smith replied: “Those decisions are made by the coaches. My job is to go out there (and) try to earn their respect every single day.”

He’s going about it in an unusual way, even if the Jets have lashed themselves to his mast.

Superman55 wrote:As soon as you lose confidence from your teammates, I'll say it again, you're toast. You can play bad, think Trent Dilfer those 6-7 games they went without scoring a offensive TD in Baltimore in 2000, but as long as the team has your back, you're fine...but when cracks start forming in your teammates having your back, you're in trouble. If Geno isn't solid this week, Jets will have no choice but to grab another guy (I already think they're at that point).

The problem is, Vick admitted this week to not preparing to play in games. I'm not sure how you hook a wagon up to that horse.

Idzik will need to try again next year, IMO, with a young guy and a new vet. I dont think you can bring Vick back now knowing the type of person he is, a slacker....

Teammates grumbling about Geno Smith’s leadership

Posted by Darin Gantt on October 9, 2014, 5:27 AM EDT6111fa8c95b6cc4e3ce753c2c9378a46APRex Ryan might be giving quarterback Geno Smith a pass, but some of his teammates are not.

According to Manish Mehta of the New York Daily News, there are already grumbles about the way Smith has handled his mistakes of the last two weeks, which include cursing at a fan and missing a team meeting while at the movies.

The report said several team members were “not thrilled with how the quarterback has acted recently.” One of them tied his sloppy play last week against the Chargers to the missed meeting, saying Smith didn’t look prepared.

Coach Rex Ryan was asked about Smith’s leadership and command of the offense, and offered a defense that was tepid.

“Is it 100%?” Ryan said. “Like some of the things like missing a meeting? Obviously that’s not typical of what a leader would do.”

Still, the Jets are sticking with Smith, even though his play on the field has been sloppy as well.

He’s tied for the league lead in interceptions and turnovers, and only Titans quarterback Jake Locker has a lower completion percentage.

Asked whether he deserved to keep the job, Smith replied: “Those decisions are made by the coaches. My job is to go out there (and) try to earn their respect every single day.”

He’s going about it in an unusual way, even if the Jets have lashed themselves to his mast.

Mehta is doing what he has always done - stirring the pot with some creative editing of what people have said. No wonder that he seems to be extremely disliked from the top down in the organization and even by some of his contemporaries.

Do I think that maybe 1 or 2 players acknowledged his recent mistakes -his cursing at a fan or missing a "10 minute" meeting (according to RR), yes, but I highly doubt that any player would relay that to Mehta in the way that he is trying to make it seem. It was probably a more innocuous comment about how everyone including Geno have to be better/smarter. Plus, if we are to believe Rex in that it was only a 10 minute meeting and that everyone knew that - I highly doubt any player would attribute his play to missing that meeting.

I blame Smith for some of how the Offense has performed this year, but I also put a lot of blame on MM for his play calling. Quite frankly, I think it sucks a lot of the time. It does not properly utilize the strengths of the personnel and is too pass-centric for the personnel we have.

I certainly don't think Vick is the answer - short term or long term. Based on his comments about his preparation recently, I wouldn't be too disappointed if we cut him. It certainly would send a wake up call to the team. What do you think about if Geno does struggle and RR really wants/needs to pull him, put Simms in instead? Or would that be perceived as giving up? I, for one, think that Simms might be a good QB, he just needs more game reps. But I don't think that RR/MM or JI feel that way so, IMO we need to let the Smith scenario play out for the season and than re-evaluate. But RR has to make MM create a game plan that is more in line with his philosophy and with the talents of our personnel - run a lot, play action, using CJ?K as a receiver out of the backfield, short, quick passes, 3 tight-end sets, get Geno moving, etc.

The attached article is about how Rivers has thrived under their new system. Why can't we employ something similar? It's probably too late in the season to change the offensive philosophy altogether, but can't we at least start to alter the play calls and mindset?

Atljet60 wrote:The time zone change does not come into play coming from the east. Simply put, anyone gains time traveling west and lose time traveling east. Besides Rex practices keeping the time the same when traveling to the west coast. What does this show about leadership?

I agree that it appears he is losing the confidence of his teammates. Reports are his teammates were very annoyed when he showed up late. It's one thing to be standing with them side-by-side while struggling and it is another to struggle, be late, and not appear to be on the same page with the team or teammates. This puts a huge crack in what they were building, IMO, and once you lose your teammates, you're toast. I think his time and chances here are quickly drying up and this could be the beginning of the end. It really can be.

I think he has already... They see a guy that is making the some dam mistakes he did last year on the field and now off the field is becoming a distraction. If he plays the way he did last week then I pretty dam sure there will be a problem in the locker room...

football51 wrote:Kimberley A. Martin @KMart_LI · 22m 22 minutes agoRex points out that geno missed a 10-minute meeting. It wasn't a two-hour mtg. Repeats the young man made a mistake

All Rex does good is excuses! It's either an injury thing! Or a discipline thing! Or an awareness thing!

He should stop making excuses for his players, it's really, really getting old. Why doesn't he ever get pissed off? I don't care that it was a 10 minute meeting, it was a 10 minute meeting that various players didn't care enough about to bother figuring out what time it was (really??), and then the team got their asses kicked in an embarrassingly bad performance in all respects. How can a coach come out after that and act like that's no big deal?

With respect to Geno's actual performance this year, I am very disappointed in the lack of development, and in fact in the regression to his level from mid-season last year. I am also really disappointed in Marty's playcalling and gameplan design.

The things that seemed to characterize Geno's improvement over the final four games of the season last year were rollouts and read option runs. In other words, situations where he used his legs to either buy time or pick up positive yardage. I don't see any of that stuff this year. When the pocket collapses, Geno backpedals now, as if he can outrun a oncoming passrusher while backpedaling?

Despite the lack of weapons at WR, I have seen very little utilization of the TEs as intermediate passing targets across the middle. We seem to run Chris Johnson in between the tackles more than we set up screens for him on the edge where he might do some actual damage, and we seem to have forgotten that Bilal Powell is even on the roster.

Marty's playcalling doesn't seem to play to whatever Geno's strengths are. Too often on 3rd and manageable, Geno hucks a prayer down the sideline that is uncatchable, instead of a nice makeable look underneath. Too often, Geno holds onto the ball too long so that WRs have to start improvising because they've already completed their pattern and Geno still has the ball in his hand. While bad passblocking probably has something to do with it, there never seems to be an option for Geno to scramble to his right to buy time when the pocket collapses.

I really thought Geno had made strides this year as the pre-season drew to a close, and that the game had slowed down for him. However, now that the games count, it seems like things have gotten too fast for him again. He continues to have problems with seeing the field, locking onto primary receivers, footwork, close quarters peripheral vision (not seeing/feeling the pass rush), going through his progressions, and making quick decisions. I am starting to come around to the idea that the critical scouting reports on Geno coming out of college were more accurate than those that projected good things for him. Looks like we'll be looking at QBs somewhere high in the coming draft.

WilliesDad wrote:The attached article is about how Rivers has thrived under their new system. Why can't we employ something similar? It's probably too late in the season to change the offensive philosophy altogether, but can't we at least start to alter the play calls and mindset?

We aren't looking at a true WCO...that's for sure. I think we are seeing too much Rex in the offense. This looks like nothing Marty has ever coached before, and a ton like G & P. I can't tell if Geno's not getting the coverage right at the line; which would prohibit him from throwing to a vacated part of the fieldd on longer throws while that simultaneously taking away his ability to get quick yards via a quick hitter to get the chains moving.

...and that's sad. the short passing game to the backs is a staple of the WCO, and is a part of the running game. great way to get cheap yards, great way to move the ball, and most importantly for Geno, great way to get the young man some confidence.

WilliesDad wrote:The attached article is about how Rivers has thrived under their new system. Why can't we employ something similar? It's probably too late in the season to change the offensive philosophy altogether, but can't we at least start to alter the play calls and mindset?

We aren't looking at a true WCO...that's for sure. I think we are seeing too much Rex in the offense. This looks like nothing Marty has ever coached before, and a ton like G & P. I can't tell if Geno's not getting the coverage right at the line; which would prohibit him from throwing to a vacated part of the fieldd on longer throws while that simultaneously taking away his ability to get quick yards via a quick hitter to get the chains moving.

...and that's sad. the short passing game to the backs is a staple of the WCO, and is a part of the running game. great way to get cheap yards, great way to move the ball, and most importantly for Geno, great way to get the young man some confidence.

Thanks Skop. Admittedly, I don't get to see most of the games, so I sometime make assumptions on the sample size I do see. But, after reading some of the comments here and elsewhere, it seems like we are throwing more. So I guess the question I have for you, based on what you wrote above is: Is there really a lot of G&P in the game plan considering the run numbers recently? We ran, what 11 times last week?

Honestly, I would prefer that they go back to the game plan of 2009-2010. Namely, stick with the ground game, make it the focus of our offense again. Back then, we would just keep pounding it, even if it wasn’t successful initially. They would stack the box daring us to run and we would just kept at’em and eventually the defense would wear down. I feel like now they give up too early on the running attack. Maybe the O-line isn't as good a run-line as it was then. But IMO our backs now are at least as good as back then. They just need more reps. As does the O-line – get them moving forward not backing up. Start to re-develop that mindset again. Couldn’t we do this while also incorporating quick routes and screens in an effort to keep the defense guessing and on their heels a bit?

My point for citing the article was that if we weren’t going to be a G&P offense, why not tailor it more along the lines of what was written in the article in the hopes that, along with moving the chains, it would – as you noted - also help get Geno back to where he was late last season and early this season. We certainly have some tools that could be utilized in this game plan – CJ, Amaro, Kerley, Decker.

WilliesDad wrote:The attached article is about how Rivers has thrived under their new system. Why can't we employ something similar? It's probably too late in the season to change the offensive philosophy altogether, but can't we at least start to alter the play calls and mindset?

We aren't looking at a true WCO...that's for sure. I think we are seeing too much Rex in the offense. This looks like nothing Marty has ever coached before, and a ton like G & P. I can't tell if Geno's not getting the coverage right at the line; which would prohibit him from throwing to a vacated part of the fieldd on longer throws while that simultaneously taking away his ability to get quick yards via a quick hitter to get the chains moving.

...and that's sad. the short passing game to the backs is a staple of the WCO, and is a part of the running game. great way to get cheap yards, great way to move the ball, and most importantly for Geno, great way to get the young man some confidence.

Thanks Skop. Admittedly, I don't get to see most of the games, so I sometime make assumptions on the sample size I do see. But, after reading some of the comments here and elsewhere, it seems like we are throwing more. So I guess the question I have for you, based on what you wrote above is: Is there really a lot of G&P in the game plan considering the run numbers recently? We ran, what 11 times last week?

Honestly, I would prefer that they go back to the game plan of 2009-2010. Namely, stick with the ground game, make it the focus of our offense again. Back then, we would just keep pounding it, even if it wasn’t successful initially. They would stack the box daring us to run and we would just kept at’em and eventually the defense would wear down. I feel like now they give up too early on the running attack. Maybe the O-line isn't as good a run-line as it was then. But IMO our backs now are at least as good as back then. They just need more reps. As does the O-line – get them moving forward not backing up. Start to re-develop that mindset again. Couldn’t we do this while also incorporating quick routes and screens in an effort to keep the defense guessing and on their heels a bit?

My point for citing the article was that if we weren’t going to be a G&P offense, why not tailor it more along the lines of what was written in the article in the hopes that, along with moving the chains, it would – as you noted - also help get Geno back to where he was late last season and early this season. We certainly have some tools that could be utilized in this game plan – CJ, Amaro, Kerley, Decker.

These are very good questions, WD. Going back to ground and pound would be the sensible thing to do given the team's inability to sustain a passing attack. The keys will be the OL's ability to successfully run block against defenses that are already stacking the box against the run, and our RB's ability to run the ball. I'm not too optimistic--our OL is not getting any push these days, and our RB committee has become a duo, as Powell barely gets any reps for some inexplicable reason. CJ hasn't shown any ability to pound the rock between the tackles, which is where they usually run him. He's indecisive and not very quick laterally. Looks like a slug out there and gets taken down like one. Ivory usually has success, but they always go away from him (and seemingly anything else that works, which hasn't been much).

I don't understand the offensive game plan. The things Geno showed last year he can do best are the designed rollout, the read option run, and the quick slant pass. They don't seem to be calling the rollout anymore, or the read option, and in fact Geno has seemed reluctant to take off with the ball except when the pocket has collapsed completely, which is often, and by the time he makes that decision it's too late and he takes a sack. The stuff he is trying are too often low percentage throws, punctuated by CJ runs into the pile and Ivory runs to the corner. Amaro has been getting some targets, and has hauled in a lot of the throws. Geno hasn't been very accurate, but Jace's catch radius helps with that. All plays are run out of the shotgun, which is not ideal for the running back, as they start off with the ball and no forward momentum, plus they haven't had a chance to see the blocking matchups (and holes) developing. The screen game has also been non-existent, which is a shame given how far upfield the pass rush is getting against our OL.

The offense is a hot mess. Something has to change. Geno's YPA is 33rd of 33 QBs (in a 32-team league, mind you) at 5.96. He's playing scared and there's nothing that gets a defense jacked up more than a scared QB--like sharks smelling blood in the water. MM doesn't seem to have a feel for the game or his players' abilities. Very disappointed in how he's managed the offense this year.

It shocks me how people do not see the pattern that's developed w this team. People have also ways been critical of Rex's ability to coach offense and much of that is justified. But people have also been critical of Sanchez, Vick, Tebow (which is obv justified IMO), and Sims. They have also been critical of Shotty, Sporano, and Marty.

IMO The reason anyone ever criticizes coaches and and play calling is because of a lack of talent. Players not named Decker or Amaro are not getting open because they just are not any good!!! Call whatever play u want, if the player sucks they will prob not be open. It's just that simple. This team has not had a single 1000 yrd capable wr on the squad since 2011 and no 1000 yrd wr seasons since 2008!!!

From what I have seen, Geno has not had any open wrs for the majority of the season and when he has had them he usually hits them as long as he has protection, which has also been lacking. Is it Geno's fault the recovers dropped 6 passes against the Lions? Is it his fault that he looks "scared" Bc no one is open so he has to choose to run, throw the ball away, or force it into a very small window?

Get another legit wr or 2 on this team and defenses will respect the pass more, making more room to run, open up space for underneath routs, and just get more open making Geno look like a real Qb. At this point defenses do not have to concede anything to our wrs Bc they all suck except decker.

Play calling because pretty easy when the team has guys that can actually play.