Completely agree that if we must have a Karma system, there should be room for a short comment.

If we honestly don't think we can be trusted with that, then please don't bother.

ocksi wrote:

Mongrel wrote:

sei wrote:I greatly enjoyed the comments attached to karma.

Büge wrote:No Karma, please. It truncates interaction.

bring on the deluge of "i enjoy your post" posts

That's the thing. We had no Karma for several years on the old boards and was there really a "deluge" of posts like that making threads unreadable?

If I had the energy, this is where I would link to the (at least) hundred times you simply responded to a post with the Heavy laughing emoticon.

:heavylaughing:

You know, I just want to say that I have never looked at a forum post in my entire life that was just an inoffensive "LOL!" and actually gotten mad about it. I mean, Jesus Christ, of all the fucking things in this world to get upset about.

Too much baggage? So far as I know only two people ever abused the system, and one of them doesn't post here anymore. Not to mention that their abuse of that system amounted to little more than a private flame war with a numerical value attached to it. I mean, we're all fucking adults here, right? I've been posting in this community for something like 12-13 years now, and the trend has seemingly been toward less personal responsibility for the sake of, what? Reduced drama? Now, I'm not saying bring back Wrath, but come on. The last implementation of karma, where there are two positive options, that's some fucking AYSO shit right there. Are we all getting MVP trophies at the end of the season too? I always imagined that I would feel less coddled at 30 than at 17.

What I want: a button that you can click on if you think a post is good, and the person who posted it can know that you clicked on it. That's all. I don't see how this could possibly be used for drama. And if somebody does figure out a way, it will be hilarious, so let's do exactly what I just said.

Bal wrote:Too much baggage? So far as I know only two people ever abused the system, and one of them doesn't post here anymore. Not to mention that their abuse of that system amounted to little more than a private flame war with a numerical value attached to it. I mean, we're all fucking adults here, right? I've been posting in this community for something like 12-13 years now, and the trend has seemingly been toward less personal responsibility for the sake of, what? Reduced drama? Now, I'm not saying bring back Wrath, but come on. The last implementation of karma, where there are two positive options, that's some fucking AYSO shit right there. Are we all getting MVP trophies at the end of the season too? I always imagined that I would feel less coddled at 30 than at 17.

I think implementing a karma system in the first place is antithetical to the notion that we should act like adults and not worry about meaningless prizes.

It also seems to me that no two people who want a karma system actually seem to be able to agree on what that system should be at all.

And I am extremely skeptical of your suggestion that if we implement an up/down karma system with comments, it will end differently than the last two times we tried that exact thing.

I guess it's possible to have a karma system without people bragging about how many upvotes they got or complaining about how many downvotes they got. But I think those two things are both the logical conclusion and the entire point of having a karma system in the first place*.

For people who don't attach importance to those numbers, there's no reason to have them. And for people who DO attach importance to those numbers, well, that's where the drama comes in.

* There are valuable purposes for up/downvote systems in some forums -- places like Slashdot or Ars Technica were there's a threshold for comments to be visible, for example.This is not one of those places. Those forums are for curating massive, heavily-trafficked comments sections full of people who don't know each other and which are subject to frequent abuse by trolls.None of that is applicable on these forums. We have maybe a few dozen posts a day, we all know each other, and karma does not increase or decrease the prominence of posts. It's just a scorecard/popularity contest.

Mongrel wrote:You know, I just want to say that I have never looked at a forum post in my entire life that was just an inoffensive "LOL!" and actually gotten mad about it. I mean, Jesus Christ, of all the fucking things in this world to get upset about.

I don't think anyone has ever gotten mad about it. Scrolling through can be a minor annoyance, but my point either way point was more that it's incredibly silly for you to claim that a bunch of +1s never happened when we didn't have karma.

I'm not actually strongly in favor of either option, except that should we bother with some kind of rating system it should be +/-, and I should be able to access a record of what posts were tagged, because when I see the number change I want to know why, even if I can't tell who tagged them.

Mostly I was just railing against the idea that there's some kind of terrible consequence hanging over the decision, and also that the +/++ system we had before the old board was canned was borderline insulting to my way of thinking.

Gotta agree with the negative nancies that a karma system provides nothing beneficial that just replying to the post, whether in topic or by PM, would not already do. Shit's only ever lead to unnecessary drama, as has been proven before on previous attempts.

Bongo Bill wrote:What I want: a button that you can click on if you think a post is good, and the person who posted it can know that you clicked on it. That's all. I don't see how this could possibly be used for drama. And if somebody does figure out a way, it will be hilarious, so let's do exactly what I just said.

I have seen forums that let people click a like/upvote/whatever button and it shows on the post itself "these users liked this!" facebook style. Could be possible to use something like that which is hidden until clicked on maybe.

I just want to reiterate that the Tyrannical/Double Tyrannical no-comments karma system happened because SMF broke the old karma module and nobody was updating it. Karma without Karma Reasons is frankly pointless.

This whole debate is pointless too because at the end of the day you're all getting whatever the hell I find that happens to work. IMPERISAURUS REX!!!

Cthulhu-chan wrote:Gotta agree with the negative nancies that a karma system provides nothing beneficial that just replying to the post, whether in topic or by PM, would not already do. coconut's only ever lead to unnecessary drama, as has been proven before on previous attempts.

Karma w/ comment had a slightly lower effort barrier than PMing and was public.

Replying doesn't always add to the conversation. The karma notes allowed for providing feedback without interrupting the discussion flow.

The old karma w/ comment system was also a good way to find some of someone's better / shittier posts.

My suggestion of per post no comment karma was because I assumed it went away because of drama and I was attempting to find a middle ground. Since it was technical, I'm totally behind bringing back comment +/-. It's more fun that way.