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i am guessing that Daryl is not going to be making the zen in any numbers at any time soon...i tried getting at least one but really 10 and that just died.....

a friend in belgium made for me exactly what you described john.....big gliding fighter kites....Ginga's....

set of Gingas:

The vented ginga:

i have the high aspect one coming and the vented one.....yes a vented fighter type kite with battens....the high aspect one is about 3' across.......Christophe will not be producing them since his real job takes up too much time...but i will have the plans for them....pix when i get them!!!!the slow boat from Belgium......

My limited experience with gliders is that they seem to have a fairly small range and repetitive back-n-forth motion - which doesn't excite me too much. And as versatile as Revs are, I still feel limited by the fixed line length and two-dimensionality.

As someone else wrote, fighters are all about movement in 3 dimensions. There really is nothing like seeing the kite pop and climb further and further into the air as you let more and more line out. You get to fly with the birds. Or chase them. You get to trace fences and check streetlamps. You get to spin over the heads of friends, enemies and strangers. You liven up any passing dog's routine walk.

I go out now as the summer sun sets, the air cools, and the breezes are near null. "Normal" speed winds lose their challenge after you've fished in the barest ethers. I put waxed 5-15lb PowerPro on my Jeff Howard Flick and slowly work it up into the air. Tiny "whooshes" slice the stillness as the thermals tug it, the sparrows buzz it, and it zips across the pink, Maxfield Parrish clouds you get this time of year.

I do find the gliders to be 3 dimensional to though, I'm challenged by the Aerobe to get it out to the end of the line in little to no wind then bring it back, then work it out again. About the same experience you're after, just a bit slower with no spinning hover and not really accurate enough to trace fences & check light poles.

Now where did I put those fighters?

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"Living is easy with eyes closed, misunderstanding all you see" John W Lennon

"People do not quit playing because they grow old, they grow old because they quit playing" George Bernard Shaw

Wondering if a large, vented fighter is much different than a small, regular one?

I was playing around with weighing my Flick indoors at WW - trying for a glider-style ballast. It is too taunt to drift and glide normally. But, it can really move fast during a distance launch tug! Considering it's small sail, it's pretty amazing.

You do need a LITTLE wind to get it moving outdoors, compared to a pure zero-wind kite. BUT, the little sucker can soar and dive like no glider kite I've ever seen. (and you don't have to keep walking backwards!)

the vented one is - as you surmised- for a smoother flight...not for higher winds....these Gingas have been in the works now for almost 2 years.....with lots of belgian beatdowns!

not at all like a wala.....these are much more fighter shaped and derived....a smooth skin...no keel forming at all....i will have to put up more pictures that i have tucked away....

also if you look at the spreader some of you might have noticed a strange bend to the rod....yep...Christophe is making the spreader out of fiberglas and carbon fiber.....it is giving him the bend characteristics he likes.....

they are well designed and i am sure made too....let ya know when they hit my house!

Manny....ah i miss that guy.....i was flying a kite in a small park in Bristol Ri in about 98 or so...and this guy and his son were watching me....and i them because they pulled out some fighters....eventually we put the kites down and met in the middle of the field.....it was manny...he had just started making kites as a past time....i made certain that he knew where my shop was and he came in 2 days later....he was amazed at what was out there....and now i am just amazed at what he is building himself!!! since i moved away last year i have not seen him since last july....always loved chatting with him....

Glider SLKs are loads of fun. The HQ Hybrid is my favorite outdoor no-wind kite. The Skate for indoors. I also have the R-Sky Bird that seems to be more of a darter than a glider.

My first glider SLK was the Nelson Borelli glider for indoor flying. These are easy to make and cheap (like a dollar each). Mr. Borelli did a workshop at an indoor event sponsored by the Kite Museum a few years back. Some great flyers have done some incredible performances with these things.

I met Manny a few years ago at WSIKF, he had entered a kite in the Comprehensive competition and from 100 yards or so I could tell it was special and walked down to see it and meet him. I was completely awed at his workmanship and innovation. He was building kites so far beyond the kites I was building 5-6 years before.

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"Living is easy with eyes closed, misunderstanding all you see" John W Lennon

"People do not quit playing because they grow old, they grow old because they quit playing" George Bernard Shaw

Hold the phone...Tyrone! I just stumbled on this video! Who is this guy...Reed Richards? Your telling me these two fighters are on one line....and he can make them dance like that! Where does he live?? Is he still alive? This was really incredible! I gotta find this guy and see this for myself. (Road trip) Is he this good? Or is he average? I am totally blown away! Here I am..struggling with my dual lines....and I see this. I ....I....am speechless....

Regards,Chris

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Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities.

Chris, Reed hangs around on both this forum and Bruce Lambert's (fighterkitecentral.com), IIRC. My impression (after only a few attempts) is that flying two or more fighters on one (forked) line reasonably well is WAY quicker and easier than (say) doing a good sport-kite trick routine.

Of course, you have to get the hang of flying ONE fighter reasonably well first, then you have to get two reasonably well-matched fighters, preferably not the fastest and spinniest fighters around, either. And preferably with the nearer one of the two fairly solid, so it will survive smacking into the line of the farther one.

The first trick is to "fly" whichever of the two is in bigger trouble, aka closer to the dirt. After some practice at that, you can start concentrating on "dancing".

Reed and others have written out some notes on how to proceed. A little swivel where the second line branches off seems to help.

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