Whether he's second or third best in the squad is beside the point really, our OD quick bowling depth is atrocious. I'd back our first choice bowlers to do well pretty much anywhere but beyond that there is absolutely nothing. A line up of Patel/Bresnan, Broad, Swann, Finn, Anderson is pretty damn good, but then look at the rest of our options. The main reason we've done well recently is because we've kept a (close enough to) first choice attack in most of our last few series.

Edit: Or have at least got away with one or two passengers in the bowling, usually Jade.

08-01-2013, 09:40 AM

theegyptian

Quote:

Originally Posted by MW1304

Whether he's second or third best in the squad is beside the point really, our OD quick bowling depth is atrocious. I'd back our first choice bowlers to do well pretty much anywhere but beyond that there is absolutely nothing. A line up of Patel/Bresnan, Broad, Swann, Finn, Anderson is pretty damn good, but then look at the rest of our options. The main reason we've done well recently is because we've kept a (close enough to) first choice attack in most of our last few series.

Edit: Or have at least got away with one or two passengers in the bowling, usually Jade.

yes i think we have 3 good odi bowlers.

Finn, Broad and Swann

Then you have the ok list

Anderson, Bresnan, Dernbach, Tredwell

and then the rest

The ok list aren't particularly good. Anderson gets carted in Asia and goes to pieces bowling at the death. Bresnan is powder puff but is useful to the team given the lack of quality allround options. Dernbach is erratic. Tredwell is steady.

The rest are basically terrible. Meaker isn't even a regular in the surrey LO teams.

This is why if any young bowlers with potential had a good season next year in lo cricket I'd be throwing them into the squad straight away.

Someone like Chris Wood of Hampshire who bowls left arm, swings the ball and has good variations. He is not quick enough at the moment I think but if he can somehow move his speed from early 80's to mid 80's whilst not losing any of his other attributes is one possibility. He is also an ever improving batsmen

Reece Topley another left armer but very tall, bowls mid 80's and swings the ball into the right hander. Did well in the 20 over game this year.

Ajmal Shahzad could come back into the reckoning. He did well for England when he played and although he struggled in the first class game recently he has still been very useful in LO cricket. Decent pace and skiddy with decent variation

The problem is at the moment they're picking players who have never done well in LO cricket. Woakes and Meaker are very decent 4 day players - they are **** LO cricketers.

08-01-2013, 10:01 AM

theegyptian

I'm not saying lets have a revolution and start again. I'm saying when you rest Broad from a series don't pick Meaker as a replacement pick a Chris Wood. Someone who has performed consistently in LO cricket and is suited to the game.

Pick a Chris Wright, Chris Wood, Reece Topley, Shahzad, Keith Barker, Toby Roland Jones, Moin Ashraf as a squad player rather than Woakes or Meaker. They are all at home in LO cricket and have good skills and a proven track record in the domestic game. Yes they might not be good enough but they all have skills that could be useful to the team.

The only skill Woakes adds to the team is the fact he can bat a bit. Meaker has decent pace but is by no means out and out quick- and is erratic.

I'm simplifying it here but all of these guys have performed well in domestic cricket. Some aren't good enough at the moment, some will never be good enough but all of these have done well in domestic OD cricket and deserve a chance moreso than Meaker. Most important is they have skills that if improved could form a formidable attack. I don't see how Woakes ever makes a formidable attack. Meaker maybe but domestic cricket disagrees.

08-01-2013, 10:16 AM

Howe_zat

Dernbach is ****ing appalling. Isn't accurate, isn't quick and doesn't get any movement. Has one aspect to him that works - a well-disguised slower ball - and he ****s it up half the time and bowls wides. There isn't a statsguru option for wides, but I'd be willing to bet in two years of ODIs he's bowled far more wides than the likes of Broad have in a whole career.

He's not even comparable to Bres, who is having issues right now but has actually performed in the past, and has shown himself to be a versatile bowler with conventional new-ball swing and a good yorker, neither of which Dernbach has ever managed.

If I had to put him somewhere in a pecking order I'd put him around 10th, and even that is solely based on having some international experience, rather than being in any way ahead of a further dozen or so county bowlers.

08-01-2013, 10:19 AM

grecian

Well, I agree with you totally Egyptian, would love a few genuinely fresh names, with a possible big future in the ODI game, but that's not how England work unfortunately, we use these matches as Testing grounds for Test players. Honestly WTF is Joe Root doing in the squad?

08-01-2013, 10:30 AM

Furball

Quote:

Originally Posted by theegyptian

yes i think we have 3 good odi bowlers.

Finn, Broad and Swann

Then you have the ok list

Anderson, Bresnan, Dernbach, Tredwell

and then the rest

wtf, Anderson's much better than everyone else in his group.

08-01-2013, 10:31 AM

Howe_zat

Announcing the OD squads for the NZ tour before this mini-tour even started was probably enough of a broadcast that no-one cares about it.

08-01-2013, 10:33 AM

NasserFan207

England should be using this series to test out young spinners, so picking Joe Root actually does make sense

08-01-2013, 10:54 AM

theegyptian

Quote:

Originally Posted by GingerFurball

wtf, Anderson's much better than everyone else in his group.

he is better than them but he isn't a good odi bowler imo. Trash bowling from 30 overs +, terrible in asia. helpfully missed the last two odi series in india. decent in home conditions. ok not good imo.

next two world cups in Aus/NZ then England so planning is geared towards that somewhat but it amazes me that they don't seem to adjust their tactics in the slightest for india.

Not much to look forward to tomorrow for England fans. Doesn't even look like Buttler will play. Team looks doomed to fail even with india's problems. Bowling lacks both penetration and accuracy. Batting is mainly pedestrian.

10-01-2013, 12:03 PM

Cabinet96

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cricinfo

Jade Dernbach, with his variations, is an important option in India, while Stuart Meaker's extra speed could push him in front of Chris Woakes.