Hindu Antediluvian History

Hindu Antediluvian History

by Elijah

Hindu religion teaches that this current world was created from Manu’s global Flood of 3102bc whose epoch falls on Feb 16 or 18 according to two sources. This is Gregorian Jan 21 or 23. Noah’s 360-day calendar is the 1st day of the 9th month on the date Feb 17 (G.Jan 22).

Manu saves mankind thru the Flood of Creation by having the spirit of Vishnu. These names come from the following sources. His name is Nu (which is also evolved to Noe and Noah). When Gilgamesh visited Noah in 2040bc in honor of Noah reaching Adam’s age of 930, then Noah was given the name Man, in reference to mortality. So the name Manu is two names Man-Nu. The Hebrew word ish and the name Man are not the same, yet they became the same in Hittite-English. So the two phrases for Venus as Man’s star and as Ish-star became equal. The spirit that Noah had to survive the Flood is actually Jehovah’s spirit.However, Vishnu is not Jehovah. Vishnu is three words; the dgamma or V is ascent, the word ish is Hebrew for man, and then his name Noah. VishNu is the ascend man Noah. Thus it is a name that is falsely claimed to exist before Noah’s death when in fact it was created after his death (upon 40-day séance from 2021bc Dec 25 to 2020bc Feb 2). The Greek declaration of his being in heaven is called Christmas December 25, and the Zoroaster declaration of this is called Christmas date Thoth 24 (which in 2020bc falls on Feb 2 and leaps back a date every four years).

The Hindu religion came from Ur in 1900bc when they left the destruction of the city’s 3rd dynasty to explore and settle in India (the Hindus River). With them were also the family of China who didn’t move onward until 1437bc.

Thus like the righteous man Job they had the concept that God was everything good and everything bad. They saw all things as both sides of the same God. The good is the Creator (Brahma), and the bad is The Destroyer (Siva). In China they call this Yin and Yang, and is also designated as male and female (yes very sexist). But the concept of dark bad destruction by God avoids saying that all bad is Satan.As Jesus said the seed must be destroyed (planted, watered, at risk of rotting or destroying it to grow the tree). You cannot eat the cake if you wish to keep it as a trophy, because nourishing oneself with the cake requires destroying it. Things that are built and constructed are done so from products that must be destroyed or sacrificed. So Vishnu is Noah ascending to heaven to negotiate the two sides of God. It is an identical trinity to that of believing Jesus has done this same thing. But it has wrongly evolved into stating that all those before Noah who were also with Jehovah’s spirit had been filled with the spirit of Noah (Vishnu) as if Noah has always existed and came down into Enoch and other righteous men. Thus the ancestral fathers of Noah are referred to as having been incarnations of Vishnu. This would be comparable to claiming that the Jesus-trinity manifested itself as Jesus coming down many times before, in the form of Noah, and Abram, and Moses, or that Jesus was the incarnated messenger Shem Melchizedek who predicted that medical circumcision would clean Abram, and that sunrise on the full moon would explode Sodom’s fault line.

Now it is frequently ignored by the scientific schools that all pagan religions have previous worlds to the Creation by Flood. Yet in the case of the Hindu (1900-700bc, and the Mayans who were with them, 1625-1437bc), the concept of four cycles for a leap day resulted in claiming there are and were four worlds. All four worlds were of mankind. It was not an animal Jurassic Period or animal Paleozoic Era, but each world was mankind destroyed again three times so that we live in the 4th world. For Mayans, they concluded that four worlds had become complete and destroyed so that we are in the 5th world of man, each one of humans.

In reality the truth does not deny (but rather proves) that the world has been destroyed many times before Noah. They were times before Adam when no man existed. The layers of the geological earth prove animals have died in the millions in several destructions before Adam. Sea fossils in mountains are not Noah’s Flood but rather other global Floods before Adam. So there are previous epochs and ages, but they are not of man’s destruction. The concept is not only from the four cycles of 365-day and 366-day leap year, but also from four ignored events of longevity. World #1 lived 900 years.World #2 lived postFlood until that world was split and divided because the children of the first 4 generations died at 240 while all ancestors stayed young like the preFlood ancestors, (thus calling these people gods). So when it says king Gilgamesh had a goddess for a mother, it means she did not age like his father did, and so she lived 200 years more than her husband. World #3 is the living gods and mortal humans living together. The living gods are not preFlood angels, but rather Shem and Arpaxad and Shelah and Eber, as well as Ham and Cush and Nimrod and 4th dynasty Egypt K-F (Kayef aka Cheop) all dying during dynasty 12 (1943bc onward). Arpaxad died at 438 in 1930bc. Shelah in 1900bc. Shem died in 1868bc. Eber at 464 died 4 years after Abram died at 175 in 1843bc and 1839bc. Nimrod was the last to die at 500 in 1770bc making him last of the gods. Everything they asked him, his answer they believed as being God’s truth. Thus after Nimrod’s death in Adam’s year 2256am, the 4th world began.

1st world 4025-2370bc2nd world 2370-2030bc3rd world 2030-1770bc4th world 1770bc onward

This is why all the false chronologies insist that the Flood was 2256am not 1656am. In Mayan chronology the Flood is Adam’s year 2256am in 3114bc. Then 260 years before it (in the Monkey Year), it is said that in the year 3374bc (1996am) the world was destroyed and its survivors are men who turned into monkeys to escape it. It is the year or circle or cycle that becomes the Chinese Monkey Year, not the men. Or perhaps by shame these men indeed became monkeys scattered in panic. In Sumerian a sar or shar is a 3600-day decade (that in 1625bc as year 2400am became a 3600-year shar to year 6000). The sar and shar are opposite words just like a water canal and a water channel. But depending which nation speaks it they are flipped. This word shar becomes in English the word for king of kings as a Czar or Tsar or Caesar or Kaiser. In Japan, the Chinese Monkey year is called a Sar. So in essence the story of Ur speaks of kings who fled before the disaster, (in the year of innocent Sheep), and then fools or kings who then fled because of the disaster, being monkeys who know nothing and then become struck. This concept exists today where many people are proud to see others survive by being street vagrants who steal and scam and connive.If a child grows up molested by relative-pedophiles, so many people are awed by the fact that instead of dying or suicide that these people then survived by becoming criminals or schizophrenic multiple personalities behavinglike demons inside them. This is what Jesus said is the making of people worthy of Gehenna by false-preaching.Once the personality is destroyed, how do you bring it back? Can it be reborn, killing the old bad personalities?

It is for this reason that we should and must question whether the city called Babel is not rather the city of Ur which means The City. It is like your own city going so bad (perhaps its mayor runs all the crime) that they begin tocall it Las Vegas. It doesn’t mean your mayor rules Las Vegas, nor does it mean his criminal mob is in Las Vegas.Thus Ur became so bad that they began to call it Babel or Babylon because it had become like the city that itself had detested. A comparable example is Jerusalem had become Babylon, and Jerusalem had also become Rome. It adopted pagan ways and dared to say it was the way of Jehovah.

Hindu pre-Flood World

The Hindu are then like all other cultures divided in contrary beliefs of choice. There concept of preFlood world is found in two forms that perhaps they even then try to merge as one. The claim of four worlds did not stay as 1656 years +340 years +260 years and now current. But rather they adopted the 1200-year calendar of Venus claiming it was 12-year Jupiter.

First, to educate you on true astronomy. Jupiter’s orbit of 12 years cannot be retained by existing calendars.There are two problems ignored by the world that prevent it from being 600 years or 1200 years though it can be 60 years as 5 orbits. But in 7 orbits then Jupiter spans exactly 83 Julian years not 84. In contrast, Venus holds true to 1200 egyptian years if you subtract 60 days. By lacking 300 leap days, the drift back of 300+60 days will span 1199 Julian and 5 days. Yet the Egyptian year of 365-day did not exist until Peleg’s death in 1996am as year 340. because of this the planet Jupiter appeared to jump around dates in the 360-day year and yet completed 7 orbits in 84 years.

In fact this was good for 216 calendar years (= 213 Julian) while every 84 years the 12-year Jupiter date had advanced 6 months. But this advance will cause 36 orbits of Jupiter to be 433 calendar years (in 427 Julian) insteadof the expected 432 calendar years (in 426 Julian). If wise in mathematics and in the reading of past astral records before your birth, then you would note the true cycle of Jupiter in 1943bc (since the 2370bc astral impact of the Flood). In Europe they call the planet Jova. And when the Egyptian Pig Year came (the year before Julian Chinese Pig Year) then the Greeks thought they were showing favor to the Jews by worshipping Jova for them by offering a pig at Jova’s temple. Now there is an original Marduk (the planet Mars) and there is a Jupiter Marduk. In the Jewish lunar calendar chronology of the Seder Olam Rabbah, the temple of Solomon is placed in 834bc with intent of being the 480th from 1313bc Exodus. But it is the Marduk of Babylon from 1770bc (2256am) to 834bc (3192am) which Babylon pushes back to 2009bc as 3192am. Likewise, Josephus takes the same 936 years (1770-834bc) and with NeoBabylon regarding Marduk Street as the 936 years of 2945-2009bc (2256-3192am), the next cycle of 936 (four cycles to year 6000) is 1073bc. By placing the Thoth Marduk (of 1770bc Nov 9 to 843bc March 20) as a false 2945bc Aug 29 to 2009bc Jan 8, the Thoth Marduk of 1073bc becomes claimed as honored instead of 834bc.And here Josephus places Jerusalem’s temple, first as David’s 4th year of 40, followed by the 40 years of Solomon; and then when corrected that David did not take Jerusalem until his 7th year, the Josephus claims the temple is the 4th year of 80 years to the same division of 997bc. So whether a Greek Pig or Babylon’s Marduk, the temple of Jerusalem marked time with Jupiter as Jova’s clock. As 427 years of 36 orbits span 2370-1943bc, so does 427 years span of 36 orbits from 1034bc to 607bc. It is the span that the 360-day calendar cycle of 12 years proves to be false and requires a one-year atonement.

Thus the 1200-year cycle is Venus not Jupiter as the Hindu and all of India and all of Asia claims it to be. This is why America got to the moon and nations did not. It is why they put up communication satellites and pagan religious nations did not. The religions are false science; they are not the true Jehovah. Their chronology back to the Flood is false because they use false planets not true planets. Life depends on truth.

Yet this is what the Hindu now did with the 1200 years whether we care it to be Venus or Jupiter. Firstly the nations have taken away brilliant Jupiter and brilliant Venus and claim it is brilliant Sothis (the star Sirius). This makes it an exact 1200 Julian years with no formula purpose at all to claim it is a returning cycle of any planet.There is no cycle to it at all unless you merely are noting the 150 leap days of Noah living 600 years. What good are 300 leap days then as 1200 years. However, as shown, the drift of Venus 30 days back in 600 years makes it a 180-day drift, or double 360-day drift in 1200 years.

In the 360-day calendar, comparing day 40 of the Flood (2369bc Jan 6) on the date 3-27-600 to the day 40 of séance after Noah’s death (2020bc Feb 2) on the 360-day calendar date 5-27-954, the following correlations are found in the 1200 years of China and Japan and Hindu.

The Hindu thus had a 1200-year cycle that evolved to what it is now. That calendar took their residency of 1200 years from Ur’s destruction in 1900bc to 700bc and claimed the 1200 was Noah’s from the Flood year 3102- 3101bc. With 2400 after the Flood then they believed Babylon’s shar counted 3600 to year 6000 in 500 AD. But this then means the world before the Flood is 2400 years from Adam in 5500bc. Thus with the Flood beginning the 1200-year Kali Yuga, the world before is 2400. This is what begins the teaching that the succession is 4800 then 3600 then 2400 then 1200. However, a problem arises with 1200 as the current world or current age. The current world of 1200 was the expected 1200 future years from 700bc to 500 AD when Armageddon as year 6000 would establish their truth as The New City (New Delhi) over all the earth. So if that is the current world, then how do you regard the whole 3600 from Flood 3102bc to 500 AD. It is the 3600-year shar, or Treta Yuga which (3102bc) begins before the last Kali Yuga of 700bc. Until 500 AD arrives, all four Yuga can exist simultaneously. But naturally and predictably this all falls apart when 500 AD fails and then the future would no longer be the same 1200-year Kali Yuga back to 700bc, from 700bc; nor the same 2400-year Dua-Para Yuga since 1900bc; nor the 3600-year Treta Yuga since the Flood 3102bc. In fact with Adam as 5500bc, the year 700bc as Kali Yuga is preceded by 4800 years. The commencement of the Kali Yuga of 700bc begins marked as Adam’s year 4800am.

With this data, the failure of 500 AD results in claiming the Kali Yuga is both 3102-1902bc and 700bc to 500 AD and even continues to wait the End because it is not 432,000 days but 432,000 years. Its value has become totally worthless for our current life concerns. And this results in the 4800 of 360 years preceding the 3600 of 360 years preceding the 2400 of 360 years to 3102bc Flood that now spans 1200 of 360 years. Are these teachings truly a spiritual benefit? while other things go ignored?

But truth attempted to survive this. Not as 2400 years of preFlood. Not 2256. But 1656 years as has always been the case. However. It is mistaken as 1656 Julian years so that it is recorded as 1680 years (of 360 days). They regard the ten ancestral forefathers as being ten kings who ruled.Some are incarnations of Vishnu. Enoch is equated as Buddha. But the first king ruling 1656 years before the Flood (1680x 360 days) does not take away their foolishness that says it was the merely the meager last 1680 years of a 864,000-year 3rd world (the 2400 Dva-Para Yuga). Does truth matter to them?

Comments

Along with the birth of anthropology, the nineteenth century saw the development of semi-scientific to wholly unscientific disciplines, such as anthropometry, craniometry or phrenology. Unquestioningly accepting the prevalent concept of race, some scientists constructed facial and nasal indexes or claimed to measure the skull’s volume for every race, of course with the result that the white race’s cranium was the most capacious and its owner, therefore, the most intelligent; others went further, insisting that amidst the white race, only the Germans were the “pure” descendants of the “Aryan race” which was destined the rule the earth.

In India, from 1891 onward, Herbert H. Risley, an official with the colonial government, set about defining in all seriousness 2,378 castes belonging to 43 “races,” all of it on the basis of a “nasal index.” The main racial groups were Indo-Aryan, Turko- Iranian, Scytho-Dravidian, Aryo-Dravidian, Mongoloid and Mongolo-Dravidian.

Unfortunately, this imaginative but wholly unscientific work weighed heavily on the first developments of Indian anthropology; in the 1930s, for instance, B. S. Guha studied skeletons from Mohenjo-daro and submitted a detailed report on the proto- Australoid, Mediterranean, Mongoloid and Alpine races peopling the city, all of them “non-Aryan” of course. Long lists of such fictitious races filled academic publications, and continue to be found in Indian textbooks today.

In the wake of World War II, the concept of race collapsed in the West. Rather late in the day, anthropologists realized that race cannot be scientifically defined, much less measured, thus setting at naught a whole century of scholarly divagations on “superior” and “inferior” races. Following in the footsteps of pioneers like Franz Boas,1 leading scientists, such as Ashley Montagu,2 now argued strongly against the “fallacy of race.” It is only with the emergence of more reliable techniques in biological anthropology that anthropometry got a fresh chance; it concentrated not on trying to categorize noses or spot “races,” but on tracing the evolution of a population, on signs of continuity or disruption, and on possible kinships between neighbouring populations.

In the Indian context, we are now familiar with the work of U.S anthropologists Kenneth Kennedy, John Lukacs and Brian Hemphill.3 Their chief conclusion, as far as the Aryan debate is concerned, is that there is no trace of “demographic disruption” in the North-West of the subcontinent between 4500 and 800 BCE; this negates the possibility of any massive intrusion, by so-called Indo-Aryans or other populations, during that period.

Die-hard proponents of such an invasion / migration have therefore been compelled to downscale it to a “trickle-in” infiltration,4 limited enough to have left no physical trace, although they are at pains to explain how a “trickle” was able to radically alter India’s linguistic and cultural landscape when much more massive invasions of the historical period failed to do so.5 Other proponents still insist that “the Indo-Aryan immigrants seem to have been numerous and strong enough to continue and disseminate much of their culture,”6 but do not explain how the “immigrants” failed to leave any trace in the anthropological record.

A powerful new tool

In the 1980s, another powerful tool of inquiry came on the scene: genetics, with its growing ability to read the history contained in a human body’s three billion bits of information. In particular, techniques used in the identification of genetic markers have been fast improving, leading to a wide array of applications, from therapeutics to crime detection to genealogy. Let us first summarize the basic definitions relevant to our field.

In trying to reconstruct ancestry, biologists use two types of DNA, the complex molecule that carries genetic information. The first, Y-DNA, is contained in the Y- chromosome, one of the two sex chromosomes; it is found in the cell’s nucleus and is transmitted from father to son. The second, mtDNA or mitochondrial DNA, is found in mitochondria, kinds of power generators found in a cell, but outside its nucleus; this mtDNA is independent of the Y-DNA, simpler in structure, and transmitted by the mother alone. For various reasons, all this genetic material undergoes slight alterations or “mutations” in the course of time; those mutations then become characteristic of the line of descendants: if, for instance, the mtDNAs of two humans, however distant geographically, exhibit the same mutation, they necessarily share a common ancestor in the maternal line.

Much of the difficulty lies in organizing those mutations, or genetic markers, in consistent categories called “haplotypes” (from a Greek word meaning “single”), which constitute an individual’s genetic fingerprint. Similar haplotypes are then brought together in “haplogroups,” each of which genetically identifies a particular ethnic group. Such genetic markers can then be used to establish a “genetic distance” between two populations.

Identifying and making sense of the right genetic markers is not the only difficulty; dating their mutations remains a major challenge: on average, a marker of Y- DNA may undergo one mutation every 500 generations, but sudden changes caused by special circumstances can never be ruled out. Genetics, therefore, needs the inputs from palaeontology and archaeology, among other disciplines, to confirm its historical conclusions.

India’s case

Since the 1990s, there have been numerous genetic studies of Indian populations, often reaching apparently divergent conclusions. There are three reasons for this: (1) the Indian region happens to be one of the most diverse and complex in the world, which makes it difficult to interpret the data; (2) early studies relied on too limited samples, of the order of a few dozens, when hundreds or ideally thousands of samples are required for some statistical reliability; (3) some of the early studies fell into the old trap of trying to equate linguistic groups with distinct ethnic entities — a relic of the nineteenth-century erroneous identification between language and race; as a result, a genetic connection between North Indians and Central Asians was automatically taken to confirm an Aryan invasion in the second millennium BCE, disregarding a number of alternative explanations.7

More recent studies, using larger samples and much refined methods of analysis, both at the conceptual level and in the laboratory, have reached very different conclusions (interestingly, some of their authors had earlier gone along with the old Aryan paradigm8). We will summarize here the chief results of nine studies from various Western and Indian Universities, most of them conducted by international teams of biologists, and more than half of them in the last three years; since their papers are complex and technical, what follows is, necessarily, highly simplified and represents only a small part of their content.

The first such study dates back to 1999 and was conducted by the Estonian biologist Toomas Kivisild, a pioneer in the field, with fourteen co-authors from various nationalities (including M. J. Bamshad).9 It relied on 550 samples of mtDNA and identified a haplogroup called “U” as indicating a deep connection between Indian and Western-Eurasian populations. However, the authors opted for a very remote separation of the two branches, rather than a recent population movement towards India; in fact, “the subcontinent served as a pathway for eastward migration of modern humans” from Africa, some 40,000 years ago:

“We found an extensive deep late Pleistocene genetic link between contemporary Europeans and Indians, provided by the mtDNA haplogroup U, which encompasses roughly a fifth of mtDNA lineages of both populations. Our estimate for this split [between Europeans and Indians] is close to the suggested time for the peopling of Asia and the first expansion of anatomically modern humans in Eurasia and likely pre-dates their spread to Europe.”

In other words, the timescale posited by the Aryan invasion / migration framework is inadequate, and the genetic affinity between the Indian subcontinent and Europe “should not be interpreted in terms of a recent admixture of western Caucasoids10 with Indians caused by a putative Indo-Aryan invasion 3,000–4,000 years BP.”

The second study was published just a month later. Authored by U.S. biological anthropologist Todd R. Disotell,11 it dealt with the first migration of modern man from Africa towards Asia, and found that migrations into India “did occur, but rarely from western Eurasian populations.” Disotell made observations very similar to those of the preceding paper:

“The supposed Aryan invasion of India 3,000–4,000 years before present therefore did not make a major splash in the Indian gene pool. This is especially counter-indicated by the presence of equal, though very low, frequencies of the western Eurasian mtDNA types in both southern and northern India. Thus, the ‘caucasoid’ features of south Asians may best be considered ‘pre-caucasoid’ — that is, part of a diverse north or north-east African gene pool that yielded separate origins for western Eurasian and southern Asian populations over 50,000 years ago.”

Here again, the Eurasian connection is therefore traced to the original migration out of Africa. On the genetic level, “the supposed Aryan invasion of India 3000-4000 years ago was much less significant than is generally believed.”

A year later, thirteen Indian scientists led by Susanta Roychoudhury studied 644 samples of mtDNA from some ten Indian ethnic groups, especially from the East and South.12 They found “a fundamental unity of mtDNA lineages in India, in spite of the extensive cultural and linguistic diversity,” pointing to “a relatively small founding group of females in India.” Significantly, “most of the mtDNA diversity observed in Indian populations is between individuals within populations; there is no significant structuring of haplotype diversity by socio-religious affiliation, geographical location of habitat or linguistic affiliation.” That is a crucial observation, which later studies will endorse: on the maternal side at least, there is no such thing as a “Hindu” or “Muslim” genetic identity, nor even a high- or low-caste one, a North- or South-Indian one — hence the expressive title of the study: “Fundamental genomic unity of ethnic India is revealed by analysis of mitochondrial DNA.”

The authors also noted that haplogroup “U,” already noted by Kivisild et al. as being common to North Indian and “Caucasoid” populations, was found in tribes of eastern India such as the Lodhas and Santals, which would not be the case if it had been introduced through Indo-Aryans. Such is also the case of the haplogroup “M,” another marker frequently mentioned in the early literature as evidence of the invasion: in reality, “we have now shown that indeed haplogroup M occurs with a high frequency, averaging about 60%, across most Indian population groups, irrespective of geographical location of habitat. We have also shown that the tribal populations have higher frequencies of haplogroup M than caste populations.”

Also in 2000, twenty authors headed by Kivisild contributed a chapter to a book on the “archaeogenetics” of Europe.13 They first stressed the importance of the mtDNA haplogroup “M” common to India (with a frequency of 60%), Central and Eastern Asia (40% on average), and even to American Indians; however, this frequency drops to 0.6% in Europe, which is “inconsistent with the ‘general Caucasoidness’ of Indians.”

This shows, once again, that “the Indian maternal gene pool has come largely through an autochthonous history since the Late Pleistocene.” The authors then studied the “U” haplogroup, finding its frequency to be 13% in India, almost 14% in North-West Africa, and 24% from Europe to Anatolia; but, in their opinion, “Indian and western Eurasian haplogroup U varieties differ profoundly; the split has occurred about as early as the split between the Indian and eastern Asian haplogroup M varieties. The data show that both M and U exhibited an expansion phase some 50,000 years ago, which should have happened after the corresponding splits.” In other words, there is a genetic connection between India and Europe, but a far more ancient one than was thought.

Another important point is that looking at mtDNA as a whole, “even the high castes share more than 80 per cent of their maternal lineages with the lower castes and tribals”; this obviously runs counter to the invasionist thesis. Taking all aspects into consideration, the authors conclude: “We believe that there are now enough reasons not only to question a ‘recent Indo-Aryan invasion’ into India some 4000 BP, but alternatively to consider India as a part of the common gene pool ancestral to the diversity of human maternal lineages in Europe.” Mark the word “ancestral.”

After a gap of three years, Kivisild directed two fresh studies. The first, with nine
colleagues, dealt with the origin of languages and agriculture in India.14 Those biologists stressed India’s genetic complexity and antiquity, since “present-day Indians [possess] at least 90 per cent of what we think of as autochthonous Upper Palaeolithic maternal lineages.” They also observed that “the Indian mtDNA tree in general [is] not subdivided according to linguistic (Indo-European, Dravidian) or caste affiliations,” which again demonstrates the old error of conflating language and race or ethnic group.

Then, in a new development, they punched holes in the methodology followed by studies basing themselves on the Y-DNA (the paternal line) to establish the Aryan invasion, and point out that if one were to extend their logic to populations of Eastern and Southern India, one would be led to an exactly opposite result: “the straightforward suggestion would be that both Neolithic (agriculture) and Indo-European languages arose in India and from there, spread to Europe.” The authors do not defend this thesis, but simply guard against “misleading interpretations” based on limited samples and faulty methodology.

The second study of 2003, a particularly detailed one dealing with the genetic heritage of India’s earliest settlers, had seventeen co-authors with Kivisild (including L. Cavalli-Sforza and P. A. Underhill), and relied on nearly a thousand samples from the subcontinent, including two Dravidian-speaking tribes from Andhra Pradesh.15 Among other important findings, it stressed that the Y-DNA haplogroup “M17,” regarded till recently as a marker of the Aryan invasion, and indeed frequent in Central Asia, is equally found in the two tribes under consideration, which is inconsistent with the invasionist framework. Moreover, one of the two tribes, the Chenchus, is genetically close to several castes, so that there is a “lack of clear distinction between Indian castes and tribes,” a fact that can hardly be overemphasized.

genetic map

This also emerges from a diagram of genetic distances between eight Indian and seven Eurasian populations, distances calculate on the basis of 16 Y-DNA haplogroups (Fig. 1). The diagram challenges many common assumptions: as just mentioned, five castes are grouped with the Chenchus; another tribe, the Lambadis (probably of Rajasthani origin), is stuck between Western Europe and the Middle East; Bengalis of various castes are close to Mumbai Brahmins, and Punjabis (whom one would have thought to be closest to the mythical “Aryans”) are as far away as possible from Central Asia! It is clear that no simple framework can account for such complexity, least of all the Aryan invasion / migration framework.

The next year, Mait Metspalu and fifteen co-authors analyzed 796 Indian (including both tribal and caste populations from different parts of India) and 436 Iranian mtDNAs.16 Of relevance here is the following observation, which once again highlights the pitfalls of any facile ethnic-linguistic equation:

“Language families present today in India, such as Indo-European, Dravidic and Austro-Asiatic, are all much younger than the majority of indigenous mtDNA lineages found among their present-day speakers at high frequencies. It would make it highly speculative to infer, from the extant mtDNA pools of their speakers, whether one of the listed above linguistically defined group in India should be considered more ‘autochthonous’ than any other in respect of its presence in the subcontinent.”

We finally jump to 2006 and end with two studies. The first was headed by Indian biologist Sanghamitra Sengupta and involved fourteen other co-authors, including L. Cavalli-Sforza, Partha P. Majumder, and P. A. Underhill.17 Based on 728 samples covering 36 Indian populations, it announced in its very title how its findings revealed a “Minor Genetic Influence of Central Asian Pastoralists,” i.e. of the mythical Indo- Aryans, and stated its general agreement with the previous study. For instance, the authors rejected the identification of some Y-DNA genetic markers with an “Indo- European expansion,” an identification they called “convenient but incorrect … overly simplistic.” To them, the subcontinent’s genetic landscape was formed much earlier than the dates proposed for an Indo-Aryan immigration: “The influence of Central Asia on the pre-existing gene pool was minor. … There is no evidence whatsoever to conclude that Central Asia has been necessarily the recent donor and not the receptor of the R1a lineages.” This is also highly suggestive (the R1a lineages being a different way to denote the haplogroup M17).

Finally, and significantly, this study indirectly rejected a “Dravidian” authorship of the Indus-Sarasvati civilization, since it noted, “Our data are also more consistent with a peninsular origin of Dravidian speakers than a source with proximity to the Indus….” They found, in conclusion, “overwhelming support for an Indian origin of Dravidian speakers.”

Another Indian biologist, Sanghamitra Sahoo, headed eleven colleagues, including T. Kivisild and V. K. Kashyap, for a study of the Y-DNA of 936 samples covering 77 Indian populations, 32 of them tribes.18 The authors left no room for doubt:

“The sharing of some Y-chromosomal haplogroups between Indian and Central Asian populations is most parsimoniously explained by a deep, common ancestry between the two regions, with diffusion of some Indian- specific lineages northward.”

So the southward gene flow that had been imprinted on our minds for two centuries was wrong, after all: the flow was out of, not into, India. The authors continue:

“The Y-chromosomal data consistently suggest a largely South Asian origin for Indian caste communities and therefore argue against any major influx, from regions north and west of India, of people associated either with the development of agriculture or the spread of the Indo-Aryan language family.”

The last of the two rejected associations is that of the Indo-Aryan expansion; the first, that of the spread of agriculture, is the well-known thesis of Colin Renfrew,19 which traces Indo-European origins to the beginnings of agriculture in Anatolia, and sees Indo-Europeans entering India around 9000 BP, along with agriculture: Sanghamitra Sahoo et al. see no evidence of this in the genetic record.

The same data allow the authors to construct an eloquent table of genetic distances between several populations, based on Y-haplogroups (Fig. 2). We learn from it, for instance, that “the caste populations of ‘north’ and ‘south’ India are not particularly more closely related to each other (average Fst value = 0.07) than they are to the tribal groups (average Fst value = 0.06),” an important confirmation of earlier studies. In particular, “Southern castes and tribals are very similar to each other in their Y-chromosomal haplogroup compositions.” As a result, “it was not possible to confirm any of the purported differentiations between the caste and tribal pools,” a momentous conclusion that directly clashes with the Aryan paradigm, which imagined Indian tribes as adivasis and the caste Hindus as descendants of Indo-Aryans invaders or immigrants.

In reality, we have no way, today, to determine who in India is an “adi”-vasi, but enough data to reject this label as misleading and unnecessarily divisive.

genetic-distance

Conclusions

It is, of course, still possible to find genetic studies trying to interpret differences between North and South Indians or higher and lower castes within the invasionist framework, but that is simply because they take it for granted in the first place. None of the nine major studies quoted above lends any support to it, and none proposes to define a demarcation line between tribe and caste. The overall picture emerging from these studies is, first, an unequivocal rejection of a 3500-BP arrival of a “Caucasoid” or Central Asian gene pool. Just as the imaginary Aryan invasion / migration left no trace in Indian literature, in the archaeological and the anthropological record, it is invisible at the genetic level. The agreement between these different fields is remarkable by any standard, and offers hope for a grand synthesis in the near future, which will also integrate agriculture and linguistics.

Secondly, they account for India’s considerable genetic diversity by using a time- scale not of a few millennia, but of 40,000 or 50,000 years. In fact, several experts, such as Lluís Quintana-Murci,20 Vincent Macaulay,21 Stephen Oppenheimer,22 Michael Petraglia,23 and their associates, have in the last few years proposed that when Homo sapiens migrated out of Africa, he first reached South-West Asia around 75,000 BP, and from here, went on to other parts of the world. In simple terms, except for Africans, all humans have ancestors in the North-West of the Indian peninsula. In particular, one migration started around 50,000 BP towards the Middle East and Western Europe:

“indeed, nearly all Europeans — and by extension, many Americans — can trace their ancestors to only four mtDNA lines, which appeared between 10,000 and 50,000 years ago and originated from South Asia.” 24

Oppenheimer, a leading advocate of this scenario, summarizes it in these words:

“For me and for Toomas Kivisild, South Asia is logically the ultimate origin of M17 and his ancestors; and sure enough we find the highest rates and greatest diversity of the M17 line in Pakistan, India, and eastern Iran, and low rates in the Caucasus. M17 is not only more diverse in South Asia than in Central Asia, but diversity characterizes its presence in isolated tribal groups in the south, thus undermining any theory of M17 as a marker of a ‘male Aryan invasion’ of India. One average estimate for the origin of this line in India is as much as 51,000 years. All this suggests that M17 could have found his way initially from India or Pakistan, through Kashmir, then via Central Asia and Russia, before finally coming into Europe.”25

We will not call it, of course, an “Indian invasion” of Europe; in simple terms, India acted “as an incubator of early genetic differentiation of modern humans moving out of Africa.”26

Genetics is a fast-evolving discipline, and the studies quoted above are certainly not the last word; but they have laid the basis for a wholly different perspective of Indian populations, and it is most unlikely that we will have to abandon it to return to the crude racial nineteenth-century fallacies of Aryan invaders and Dravidian autochthons. Neither have any reality in genetic terms, just as they have no reality in archaeological or cultural terms. In this sense, genetics is joining other disciplines in helping to clean the cobwebs of colonial historiography. If some have a vested interest in patching together the said cobwebs so they may keep cluttering our history textbooks, they are only delaying the inevitable.
*

It’s not the great Hindus who are influenced by Satan. It’s people from the west like you. Try your arrogance and ignorance on religions like Islam, Judaism, etc. Don’t try to make a fool out of your little mind by trying to insult the people of “Sanathana Dharma”, i.e Hindus.

Now tell me Elijah who/which is great Hindu or Christian, Vedas or bible.

Your bible lacks truth regarding the creation of universe. Even the modern science is far beyond the cosmic knowledge of vedas. It’s the Vedas that represent the true facts regarding the creation of universe. Because Vedas are not written by humans. It’s the sacred gift given by the almighty to Hindus. And it’s being protected from time to time by Hindus.

Your bible only tells about the creation of mlecchas who reside at the west part of Indus river. And there was already the existence of life and humans at the eastern part of Indus river. We’re two different human races but the creation by same god. West never saw the almighty god. You only had messengers who are either humans or demi-gods. Even Jesus Christ worshipped the almighty god and he himself represented as son of god.

Hindus are the best among humans. The modern time Hindus you see today are the descendants of Hindus who were plundered, cheated, deprived, humiliated, deserted by the Muslims and Christian morons. The Muslims made Hindus arrogant and the Christians made Hindus cheaters and less civilized people.

Tell me Elijah who are great.
Instead of insulting Hindus ask your Christian nations to give back the original Vedic knowledge and puranas and every ancient Hindu knowledge your ancestors plundered from us Hindus.

What Vedas say about the age of the Universe?
Thanks to the blog visitor who invoked enough curiosity in me to crack down the age of the universe according to the vedas.

Here is the result of the research I did over the internet and dug up through some text material I had, to find the accurate meaning of time measurements specified in the vedas.

Introduction

Vedas say that before the creation of the universe Lord Vishnu is sleeping in the ocean of all causes. His bed is a giant serpent with thousands of cobra like hoods. By the way, in the trinity of Creator, Maintainer and Destroyer as mentioned in the vedas, Lord Vishnu is the maintainer. Brahma is the creator and Shiva the destroyer.

While Vishnu is asleep, a lotus sprouts of his navel (note that navel is symbolised as the root of creation!). Inside this lotus, Brahma resides. Brahma represents the universe which we all live in, and it is this Brahma who creates life forms.

Now take a break here. Vishnu is the personification of the eternal multiverse that exists forever without any beginning or end. Brahma is the personification of our temporary physical universe that was created in the big bang.

Brahma is said to have been created from the navel (which is a single point) of Vishnu, described as a lotus blooming out of the navel, much like our big bang universe. Now this universe represented by Brahma is not a permanent universe, it is temporary, Brahma lives for 100 years say the vedas and then dies and then a new universe (Brahma) is born.

So as per vedas our universe lives for 100 years. Later we shall see how long each year of Brahma is.

For now, brahma represents our universe which has birth and death, a big bang and a big cruch, from a navel singularity. Vishnu represents the eternity that lies beyond our universe which has no birth or death and that which is eternal! Many such universes like ours exist in Vishnu.
Vedas say that thousands of brahmas have passed away! In other words, this is not the first time universe has been created.

Let us come back to the time measurements now. Brahma lives for hundred years say vedas and we are in the first day of the 51st year of the brahma.

A Year of Brahma

By the way each year of Brahma has 360 days. And we are in the first day of the 51st year of our current brahma. Vedas also say that Lord Hanuman will be the next Brahma. Well, thats something I have to do some research into later, the more things to think about, the more happy and occupied I am

Coming back to a day of the Brahma. Well, there is day and night. Vedas say that during the day Brahma is busy in creation of life and during the night all life he created is absorbed back into him! So we will be there only for this day of Brahma, which is the first day of his 51st year. But dont feel sad, let me promise you, this is a pretty long day.

A day of Brahma

Each day of brahma is called a Kalpa, and this itself is very huge a number. No wonder, ancient Indians had to be perfect in mathematics before going into all these things.

A kalpa is made up of brahma’s one day and one night.

Manvantaras

The day has 14 Manvantaras. Similarly the night has an equal 14 Manvantaras. But then Brahma is resting in the night, so lets get back to the day again. We are in the 7th Manvantara of Brahma’s this day, say the vedas.

MahaYuga

Each Manvantara is made up of 71 Mahayuga. We are in the 28th Mahayuga of this Manvantara say the vedas.

A Mahayuga is a collection of 4 Yugas. Maha means giant or huge.
The 4 yugas are Satya Yuga (also called Krita Yuga), Treta Yuga, Dwapara Yuga, Kali Yuga. We are in the Kaliyuga of our current Mahayuga say the vedas.

Satya Yuga lasts for 40% of its Mahayuga – Age of divine where humans need no physical means to exist and are in direct contact with the God

Treta Yuga lasts for 30% of its Mahayuga – Age where bad deeds start appearing, still there is lot of truth, infact 3/4 of this age is still goodness

Dwapara Yuga lasts for 20% of its Mahayuga-Dwapara means after the second, where there are almost equal amount of good and bad

Kali Yuga lasts for 10% of its Mahayuga- Kali means Darkness in Sanskrit (not to be confused with Kaali which is godess), no wonder we are in this age

Now finally we have reached to a timescale which we can relate to our own years.
1 Kaliyuga = 432000 solar years!

A Kaliyuga has the length of one Yuga. So One Mahayuga has 10 Yugas of which four are in Satya Yuga, 3 in Treta Yuga, 2 in Dwapara and 1 in Kali Yuga.

So a Mahayuga = 10 times the Kaliyuga i.e 4,320,000 solar years

Calculations

Let us do some reverse calculations now to find out the age of the universe as per the vedas.

Note that we are in the 7th Manvantara of this day. So let us calculate how many years have passed since today started for Brahma.

Step 1: For 6 Manvantaras we have 71x 6 = 426 Mahayugas
Step 2: Then we have the gaps between each Manvantara which is 7 x 4 Yugas = 2.8 MahaYugas
Step 3: Then we have the current Mahayuga in our Manvantara which is 28th, we are in the last 1/10 of it (Remember Kaliyuga is the last of 4 yugas and spans 1/10 of a Mahayuga). So it is 27.9 Mahayugas.

So all put together we have 426+2.8+27.9 = 456.7 Mahayugas have been already spent in current day of Brahma. Approximately 543 more to go before we all are absorbed back into the Brahma

Okay so 456.7 in terms of years is 456.7 x 4,320,000 = 1,972,944,456 which is about 2 billion years. Somewhat close to what evolution proposes for life on earth.

Age of the Universe

Now lets find out the age of our universe as per the vedas. Let us consider the age of the Brahma to be the age of the universe. This is one number which no modern theory can even come anywhere near to it.
As we saw earlier a day of Brahma has 2000 MahaYugas (day+night).
There are 360 days in a year for Brahma and we are in the first day of 51st year.
So far 360 x 50= 18000 days have passed for Brahma
This is equivalent to 18000 x 2000 x 4320000 Human Years
In other words 155,520,000,000,000 Human Years
Add the current day of Brahma which is 1,972,944,456 Humans Years

So as per the vedas, the current age of the universe is 155,521,972,944,456 Years which is about 155,522 billion years !!! Modern day science has been able to predict age of our universe to be only about 15-20 billion years! Moreover Since we are in the first day of 51st year of Brahma, almost equal amout of time has to pass before this universe ends!!

So either modern science still has a long way to go in estimating the age of our universe
OR
the universe mentioned in vedas is the mother of all universes (a multiverse probably) including our own universe !!!

More interesting:

Vedas also say that the average human life span in each yuga is as follows:
Kali Yuga = 100 Years
Dwapara Yuga = 200 Years
Treta Yuga = 300 Years
Satya Yuga = 400 Years !
I observed another interesting fact here. Vedas are also implying by this that humans are not limited to planet earth nor to this universe alone. We belong to other Yugas as well where we live a longer life!! More than the length of the life, a greater depth as well
Aliens, please come and meet me, wanna discuss a lot, people on earth are busy making money
Brahma, please put me in some parallel universe.
By the way, universe means one verse, the one verse which created this universe “OM”

The Hindu religion is the only one of the world’s great faiths dedicated to the idea that the Cosmos itself undergoes an immense, indeed an infinite, number of deaths and rebirths. It is the only religion in which the time scales correspond, to those of modern scientific cosmology. Its cycles run from our ordinary day and night to a day and night of Brahma, 8.64 billion years long. Longer than the age of the Earth or the Sun and about half the time since the Big Bang. And there are much longer time scales still. – Carl Sagan, Famous Astrophysicist

The Bible implicitly teaches Why is it that so many scientists choose to ignore the recorded history of the Bible, and instead believe in a vastly inflated age of the universe?

The age of the universe is a point of dispute between the Bible and the opinion of the majority of astronomers today. The Bible implicitly teaches us about the age of the universe. In other words, it gives us sufficient information so that we can compute approximately how long ago God created the universe. The Bible teaches that the entire universe was created in six earth-rotation days (Exodus 20:11 ). Furthermore, the Bible provides the age differences between parents and descendants1 when listing certain genealogies. From these kinds of biblical references, we know that the elapsed time between Adam and the birth of Christ was roughly 4,000 years. From other historical records, we know that Christ was born roughly 2,000 years ago. Since Adam was created on the sixth day of the creation week, we can conclude that the earth, the entire universe, and everything in it were created approximately 6,000 years ago.

Many people today would scoff at this claim. After all, most geology textbooks, astronomy textbooks, and the majority of schools and universities teach that the earth is 4.5 billion years old, and that the universe is even older, but what is the basis for the secular belief in billions of years? Why is it that so many scientists choose to ignore the recorded history of the Bible, and instead believe in a vastly inflated age of the universe?

Circular reasoning
One answer is circular reasoning: many scientists believe the world is old because they believe most other scientists think the world is old. Although a given scientist may be well aware of evidence that is not consistent with long ages, it is very tempting to dismiss such evidence because, “How could all those other scientists really be wrong?” How many of those other scientists believe in long ages simply because they also think that other scientists do? A majority opinion can become self-sustaining through circular reasoning; people believe because other people believe. It is surprising that many people do not realize the inconsistency here.

Many times, the circular reasoning can be cross-disciplinary. A geologist may feel assured that the earth is billions of years old since most astronomers believe that the solar system is billions of years old. However, an astronomer may feel confident that the solar system is billions of years old since the majority of geologists accept this for the age of the earth. Of course, the majority opinion can be wrong. In fact, many scientific discoveries have gone against the majority. Nonetheless, the psychological pressure to agree with the majority is a very powerful and well-documented phenomenon.2

The evolution connection
It is noteworthy that most (though not all) of the scientists who believe in billions of years also believe in particles-to-people evolution. Evolution requires vast ages. It couldn’t possibly have happened on a mere 6,000-year time scale, because such profound changes would then have to be happening so rapidly that we would not only see massive transformations all around us, we would have historical records of many examples. Yet, we have never seen life evolve from non-life, nor have we ever seen a living organism evolve into another kind with greater specified complexity. These “uphill” changes just aren’t observed; indeed, they seem to be impossible.

The imaginary vast ages are invoked to make these seemingly miraculous leaps feasible. As George Wald has stated, “Time is in fact the hero of the plot. . . . Given so much time, the ‘impossible’ becomes possible, the possible probable, and the probable virtually certain. One has only to wait; time itself performs the miracles.”3 The insurmountable obstacles to evolution are simply swept under the rug of vast ages.

The addition of the billions of years does not actually solve the problems with molecules-to-man evolution. These problems have been addressed in detail on our website at answersingenesis.org and in the materials available there, and so there is no need to elaborate in this astronomy book. The point here is simply that evolution requires vast ages. Hence, this is an example of how worldviews can affect a person’s interpretation of evidence. Evolutionists must believe in vast ages. Their worldview bias does not allow them to consider the possibility that the universe could be only thousands of years old, regardless of what recorded history teaches, and regardless of any scientific evidence. People who reject molecules-to-man evolution would do well to remember this before jumping on board with the vast ages.

The big-bang connection
Conceptual artwork of several areas of inflation (domes) in the early Universe
Conceptual artwork of several areas of inflation (domes) in the early Universe

I have found that most people who believe in billions of years also believe in the “big-bang theory.” The big bang is a secular speculation about the origin of the universe; it is an alternative to the Bible. The big bang attempts to explain the origin of the universe without God. It can be considered the cosmic equivalent of particles-to-people evolution. Sadly, a lot of Christians have bought into the idea of the big bang, without realizing that it is based on the anti-biblical philosophy of naturalism (there is no God, nature is all there is or ever was). Furthermore, they are generally not aware that the big bang contradicts the Bible on a number of points and has many scientific problems as well.

According to the big bang idea, the universe is nearly 14 billion years old; whereas the Bible indicates that the universe is about 6,000 years old. For those who claim to believe the Bible, this difference alone should be sufficient reason to reject the big bang. It is wrong about the age of the universe by a factor of over two million! But it is not just a problem of time scale; the Bible gives a different order of events than the current secular opinion. The big bang / naturalistic view teaches that stars formed before the earth, fish came about before fruit trees, and the sun came about long before plants. However, the Bible teaches the exact reverse—that the earth came before stars, fruit trees came before fish, and the plants were created before the sun.

Future of the Universe
Future of the Universe

The big bang is a story about the alleged past, but it is also a story about the alleged future. According to the currently favored version of the big bang, the universe will continue to expand indefinitely and grow colder. Usable energy will become increasingly scarce, and will eventually cease altogether, at which point the universe will die a “heat death.” At this point, no “heat” will be left, so the universe will have a temperature close to absolute zero everywhere. No life will be possible at that point since no usable energy will exist.

Heat death is a rather bleak scenario, and quite different from the future the Bible teaches. Scripture indicates that the Lord will return in the future in judgment. The paradise lost in Genesis will become a paradise restored. There will be no “heat death,” nor any death of humans or animals, since the Curse will be no more. The new earth will remain perfect in the Lord’s presence forever. (See diagram this page.) Many Christians are inconsistent; they accept what the big bang says about the past (instead of the Bible), but reject what it says about the future (in favor of the Bible).

The Assumptions of Naturalism and Uniformitarianism
A belief in naturalism and uniformitarianism can cause a person to make a vastly inflated estimate of the age of the earth and universe. Recall that naturalism is the belief that nothing exists outside of nature. In this view, the universe and everything in it came about by the same kinds of processes observed within the universe. Naturalism is, of course, an unbiblical concept since the Bible makes it clear that God created the universe supernaturally. The problems with naturalism will be discussed in greater detail in the next chapter. Naturalism often leads to exaggerated age estimates when applied to supernaturally created things.

As an example of this, consider the first man. Adam was created as an adult—a fully grown man. Suppose that we were asked to guess the age of Adam on the seventh day, only 24 hours after God created him. If we incorrectly assumed that Adam was not supernaturally created but that instead he came about the same way people come about today, then we would derive an age that is far too old. A naturalist might guess that the one-day-old Adam was about 30 years old by incorrectly assuming that he grew to adulthood by the same process that other people do today. Naturalism leads to an age estimate for Adam that is 10,000 times too old, but the universe was also supernaturally created. A person who denies this would likely conclude an age that is many times older than the true age.

A belief in uniformitarianism can also lead to severe overestimates of age. Uniformitarianism is the idea that most things in the world today (mountains and canyons, for example) were formed at about the same (i.e., uniform) rates that we see operating in the world today. People who hold to uniformitarianism would assume that radioactive decay has always occurred at the same rate, that canyons have (generally) been eroded at the same rate as today, and that mountains have been uplifted at the same average rate as today. They would certainly deny a worldwide flood (Gen. 6:8) since it would alter these rates dramatically. Uniformitarianism can be summed up by the phrase “the present is the key to the past.”4

However, both naturalism and uniformitarianism are merely philosophical assumptions. They are both anti-biblical since the Bible teaches both a supernatural creation and a worldwide flood. Moreover, naturalism and uniformitarianism can lead to contradictory conclusions (as we will show) which brings into question the reliability of those assumptions.

The distant starlight problem
One of the most common objections to a “young universe” is often called the “distant starlight problem.” There are galaxies in the universe that are incredibly far away. These distances are so extreme that even light would take billions of years to travel from these galaxies to the earth. Yet, we do see these galaxies; this indicates that the light has traveled from there to here. Since this process is supposed to take billions of years, the universe must be at least billions of years old—much older than the biblical time scale. It is argued that distant starlight therefore supports the big-bang story of origins.

There are actually several different natural mechanisms that God might have used to get the starlight here in thousands of years. These have been published in TJ [now Journal of Creation] and other places and so we will not repeat them here [for more information, see “Does Distant Starlight Prove the Universe Is Old?”]. The point here is to show that the objection itself is vacuous. The argument that distant starlight disproves the biblical account of creation and supports an old “big-bang” universe is based on faulty reasoning.

First, notice that the distant starlight argument is based on the fallacious assumptions of naturalism and uniformitarianism. It assumes that the light got here entirely by natural means, and traveled at a constant rate, over a constant distance, with time also being constant. Of course, it is possible that God may indeed have used “natural means” to get the light here. It may also be that some of the things assumed to be constant in time (such as the speed of light) are indeed constant, but is there any logical reason why we would automatically know beforehand that these must be the case? Remember that God created the lights in the sky to give light upon the earth. This happened during the creation week where God was creating in a supernatural way.

The evolutionist insists that if we cannot show a naturalistic mechanism for a particular event of the creation week (like distant starlight), then the Bible cannot be trusted. This is an unrealistic “heads I win, tails you lose” sort of argument. Since many of the events that happened during the creation week were supernatural in essence, it is irrational to demand a naturalistic explanation for them. It is ridiculous to argue that a supernatural explanation is wrong because it cannot be explained by natural causes. This would be circular reasoning. Now, it is perfectly fine to ask the question, “Did God use natural means to get the starlight from galaxies to earth? And if so, what is the mechanism?” However, if no natural mechanism is apparent, this cannot be a legitimate criticism against supernatural creation anymore than a lack of a natural mechanism for Christ’s resurrection could invalidate that event.

Light travel-time: a problem for the big bang
There is another fatal flaw in using a light travel-time argument like distant starlight to reject the Bible in favor of the big bang. Such an argument is subtly self-refuting. This is because the big bang also has a light travel-time problem! In the big-bang model, light is required to travel a distance much greater than should be possible within the big bang’s own time frame of about 14 billion years. This serious difficulty for the big bang is called the “horizon problem.”

Attempts at compromise
The belief in billions of years has a stranglehold on our culture today—even within the church. Many professing Christians have been taken in by the fallacious distant starlight argument or other eisegetical6 claims involving anti-biblical assumptions. As a result, many Christians have compromised; they have attempted to “add” the billions of years to the Bible. One of the most common methods of trying to believe both the Bible and the billions of years is called the “day age” position. In this view, the days of creation were not actually days, but rather were vast ages—many millions of years each. According to the day-age idea, God created over six long periods of time.

It is important to point out that even if the day-age position were true, it would not bring the biblical account into alignment with the secular story of origins since the order of events is different between the two. Recall that the big bang / naturalism view teaches that stars existed long before fruit trees which came after fish. The Bible teaches that fish were made on day 5 after the stars which were made on day 4, and after the trees which were made on day 3—regardless of how long the days were.

Day-age followers point out that the Hebrew word for day (yom) does not always indicate a “day” in the ordinary sense, but can sometimes mean an unspecified period of time. In certain contexts, “day” can refer to a longer period of time, but not in the context of the days of creation. Similarly, our English word “day” can mean an unspecified period of time in certain contexts like “back in grandfather’s day. . . .” However, it would not mean an unspecified period of time in other contexts such as “five days ago, the third day, day then night, morning of the day, evening of the day, the evening and morning.” Clearly, in the preceding phrases the word “day” must mean an ordinary day from context—not a period of time.

The Hebrew language also obeys grammatical rules, and as with English, the meaning of a word is always determined by its context. The Hebrew word for day means an ordinary day (and is never translated as “time”) when in any of the following contexts:

When combined with an ordinal (list) number (“the first day, the third day, etc.”) day means an ordinary day—not a period of time.
When associated with the word “morning,” such as “There was morning that day,” day means an ordinary day—not a period of time.
When associated with the word “evening,” such as “There was evening that day,” day means an ordinary day—not a period of time.
When evening and morning occur together, such as “There was evening and morning” (even if the word “day” is not present), this constitutes an ordinary day—not a nonspecific period of time.
When contrasted with “night,” such as “There was night then day,” the word day means an ordinary day—not a period of time.
MorningEvening
In Genesis chapter 1, we see all of these contextual indicators used for the days of creation. The days of creation must be ordinary days from context; they cannot be long periods of time because context does not permit this. It would be wrong to try and read “day” to mean “a period of time” in Genesis 1, when the context clearly precludes such a meaning; such an error is called an unwarranted expansion of an expanded semantic field. The day-age idea is not logically sound; it is simply an unsuccessful attempt to make the Bible compatible with anti-biblical notions.7

Ultimately, the Bible teaches that God created in six days and the secular opinion is that the universe evolved over billions of years. Each of us must decide whether we are going to trust the secular opinions of human beings, or the clear teaching of the Bible. As we saw in the last chapter, the Bible has always been correct when it touches upon astronomy.

It is important to remember that we are at just another point in history. Yes, people today will scoff at and ridicule a belief in a “young universe.” Then again, many of those same people will ridicule a belief in Jesus Christ being the one true God, or even the very belief in a Creator. The Bible has always been vindicated in the past. So there is no reason to cave in to mere peer pressure today.

The evidence confirms a young universe
Even now, the scientific evidence is very consistent with what the Bible teaches about the age of the universe. Why then do many secular scientists believe that the evidence points to a multi-billion-year-old universe? People who believe in the big bang generally interpret the evidence according to the big bang (sometimes without even realizing it). In other words, they simply assume that the big bang is true and they interpret the evidence to match their beliefs. We all interpret the evidence in light of our worldview; there is no getting around it. However, the Bible can also be used to interpret the evidence. Since the Bible records the true history of the universe, we will see that it makes a lot more sense of the evidence than the big bang does. Let us now look at some facts about the universe. We will see that the evidence is consistent with 6,000 years, but doesn’t make as much sense if we hold to the big bang.

Of course, big-bang supporters can always reinterpret the evidence by adding on extra assumptions, so, these facts that follow are not intended to “prove” that the Bible is right about the age of the universe. The Bible is right in all matters because it is the Word of God. However, when we understand the scientific evidence, we will find that it agrees with what the Bible teaches. The evidence is certainly consistent with a “young” (roughly 6,000-year-old) universe.

Creation In-Depth:
The Horizon Problem
In the big-bang model, the universe begins in an infinitely small state called a singularity, which then rapidly expands. According to the big-bang model, when the universe was still very small it would have developed different temperatures in different locations. Let’s suppose that point A is hot and point B is cold. Today, the universe has expanded and points A and B are now widely separated.

Cosmic Microwave Background
However, the universe has an extremely uniform temperature at great distance—beyond the farthest known galaxies. In other words, points A and B have almost exactly the same temperature today. We know this because we see electromagnetic radiation coming from all directions in space in the form of microwaves. This is called the “cosmic microwave background” (CMB). The frequencies of radiation have a characteristic temperature of 2.7 K and are extremely uniform in all directions. The temperature deviates by only one part in 105.

The problem is this: how did points A and B come to be the same temperature? They can only do this by exchanging energy. There are many systems where this happens; consider an ice cube placed in hot coffee. The ice heats up and the coffee cools down by exchanging energy. Likewise, point A can give energy to point B in the form of electromagnetic radiation (light). (This is the fastest way of transferring energy since nothing can travel faster than light.) However, using the big bang supporters’ own assumptions (such as uniformitarianism and naturalism), there has not been enough time in 14 billion years to get light from A to B; they are too far apart. This is a light travel-time problem—and a very serious one. After all, A and B have almost the same temperature today, and so must have exchanged light multiple times.

Infation diagram
Big-bang supporters have proposed a number of conjectures which attempt to solve the big bang’s light travel-time problem. One of the most popular is called “inflation.” In “inflationary” models, the universe has two expansion rates; a normal rate and a fast “inflation” rate. The universe begins with the “normal” rate (which is actually quite rapid, but is slow by comparison to the next phase). Then it enters the inflation phase, where the universe expands much more rapidly. At a later time, the universe goes back to the normal rate. This all happens early on, long before stars and galaxies form.

The inflation model allows points A and B to exchange energy (during the first normal expansion) and to then be pushed apart during the inflation phase to the enormous distances at which they are located today, but the inflation model amounts to nothing more than storytelling, with no supporting evidence at all. It is merely a speculation designed to align the big bang to conflicting observations. Moreover, inflation adds an additional set of problems and difficulties to the big-bang model, such as what would cause such inflation, and how to turn it off in a graceful fashion. An increasing number of secular astrophysicists are rejecting inflation for these reasons and others. Clearly, the horizon problem remains a serious light travel-time problem for the big bang.

The critic may suggest that the big bang is a better explanation of origins than the Bible since biblical creation has a light travel-time problem—distant starlight. Such an argument is not rational since the big bang has a light travel-time problem of its own. If both models have the same problem in essence,5 then that problem cannot be used to support one model over the other. Therefore, distant starlight cannot be used to dismiss the Bible in favor of the big bang.

HE BLOG
Vedic Cosmology: Integrating God and Physics
Jan 17, 2014 | Updated Mar 19, 2014
Mauricio Garrido, Ph.D. Physicist and Hindu Monk
In 2012, CERN, the European Organization for Nuclear Research, called for a debate between scientists, philosophers and theologians to find common ground between science and religion over how the universe began. Even though the explanations found in the texts of the world’s spiritual traditions are admittedly not exhaustive in the details referring to the origin of the universe, they do outline key concepts thereof which are important to the development of the philosophy for spiritual development that they present. The Vedic cosmology of ancient India is incredibly rich and has many points of tangency with modern cosmology, which may help in the construction of that common ground between science and religion that CERN is looking for.
One of the strongest points of tension that often comes up in cosmology between science and religion is the age of the universe. Some interpretations of the Bible calculate it to be about 6,000 years old, while the most recent calculation according to the Lambda-CDM concordance model is 13.8 billion years. The Vedic literatures see the manifestation and eventual destruction of the universe, like most events in nature, as a periodic occurrence and give it in trillions of years. In fact, they talk about an expansion of the universe after its inception and an eventual contraction at the end of its lifespan, in line with modern cosmology’s concepts of inflation and/or dark energy. Ideas regarding a cyclic behavior of the universe have also been proposed by prominent physicists like Sir Roger Penrose and Paul Steinhardt. Vedic cosmology also states that within the lifespan of the universe, there are periodic partial devastations of the universe. The time elapsed since the last one is on the order of billions of years, which roughly corresponds to the age of the universe calculated by cosmologists. In between the partial devastations, there are time periods called ages. The current age we live in, the Age of Kali, began about 5,000 years ago, which is roughly in line with (or equivalent to) the Bible’s estimates of the age of the universe. We can thus begin to see the potentiality of Vedic cosmology in creating a bridge between science and religion: The apparent contradiction regarding the age of the universe can be regarded as simply calculations of different important periods in the history of the universe.
Another big point of discussion is the process of creation itself. The process described in the Bible, despite being in a sequential order of increasing complexity, seems to involve spontaneous creation, by God’s will, of objects and beings. That spontaneous creation would be in opposition to the gradual and piecewise development of suns, planets and life described by astrophysics and evolutionary biology. The Vedic literatures also involve spontaneous creation of complex forms, but it includes an interesting gradual development of basic elements with which the complex forms are later created. These basic elements are said to manifest themselves one from the other in a succession going from the subtlest (pradhana) to the grossest (earth/structure).
Within the Vedic view, as in the unification theories of particle physics, there is an undifferentiated form of material energy (or field, in modern jargon), called pradhana, that is the source of all other forms of energy. It is interesting to note that one of the intermediate elements in the succession is material space, viewed not as a background on which everything happens but as an active substance that can be manipulated and from which grosser elements are derived. This is in line with general relativity, where space is seen as an agent that can be deformed by the presence of mass-energy. Likewise, physicists like John Wheeler, and more recently Christopher Isham, have attempted, in the theory of geometrodynamics, to define all matter in terms of perturbations in the fabric of space.
Thus, even though spontaneous creation of complex forms is still an issue of discussion, there is a very fertile ground for research of the basic component elements with which they are created and the successive manifestation of these elements. Not only that, but according to the Vedas, our universe (which is one of an infinite number of material universes within the vaster expanse of the spiritual worlds) is encapsulated by concentric regions made up of successive material elements that isolate us from the other universes. This concept of multiple universes and possible tests to infer their existence have been studied and classified by several physicists like Max Tegmark and Brian Greene.
Regarding the discussion on spontaneous complex forms, one may begin to explore it seeing the gradual creation of basic elements as a painter preparing his canvas and paints, and the spontaneous creation of complex forms as the elaborate painting itself coming into being, not gradually like the paints and canvas but directly from the painter’s design.
From the conclusions of the CERN meeting in 2012, there is much work to be done translating between the languages of science and religion. As we have briefly seen, the Vedic literatures offer amazing avenues for research in science and a broader understanding in religion. Further studies into the matter using the Vedic view may prove fruitful not only in the attenuation of the conflict between the two fields of knowledge but in the development of a scientific understanding of the process of self-realization (in other words, finding out who we really are), which is the ultimate aim of both.

Indian astronomy was heavily tied to their religious and spiritual outlook of the world, but it contained many accurate observations of phenomena. This acted as a catalyst for the growth of mathematics in the subcontinent, one of the greatest legacies passed on by India to the western world.

Indian Astronomy, Astrology and the Vedas

Rigveda Manuscript
Rigveda Manuscript (Public Domain)
The first records of sophisticated astronomy in India date back to at least 2000 BCE, where they are found in the Rigveda (c1700-1100 BCE), one of the primary and foremost texts of Hinduism. The ancient Indian astronomers used the stars and the planets to create astrological charts and read omens, devising sophisticated mathematical models and developing many interesting theories, many of which passed into the Islamic world and Europe.

The Rigveda shows that the Indians divided the year into 360 days, and the year was subdivided into 12 months of 30 days. Every 5 years, two intercalary periods were added to bring the calendar back in line with the solar year, ensuring that years averaged 366 days. However, the Indian year still migrated four days in every five years, and Indian astronomers constantly tweaked and adjusted their calendars over the millennia. The text also shows that the Indians used four cardinal points for ensuring the correct orientation of altars.

The Jyotisa Vedanga, the first Vedic text to mention astronomical data, records events going back as far as 4000 BCE, although many archaeoastronomers believe that this text may include observations from as early as 11 000 BCE. They point out that some of the records may have been copied from earlier manuscripts, but this is an area where more research is needed, as many of the references are unclear and couched in religious terminology.

Vedic India Map
Vedic India Map (Creative Commons)
This period saw many advances in measuring time and the procession of the heavens, with a few proto-theories about the structure of the universe. More importantly, this period saw the transmission of ideas between the Indians, Babylonians, Greeks, and Persians. This exchange of theories and philosophy was extremely important to the development of astronomy.

Indian Astronomy and the Siddhantic Era

In this period, a new branch of astronomy, diverging from the Vedas began. Called the Siddhantic Era, it began with a series of books called the Siddhanat, ‘Solutions,’ which charted the solar year, including solstices, equinoxes, lunar periods, solar and lunar eclipses, and planetary movements. The Siddhantic Era saw three great Indian astronomers, sadly little known in the west, despite the great advances that they made.

By the first century CE, Indian astronomers proposed that the stars were exactly like the sun, but much further away, at a time when the Greeks were still using celestial crystal spheres to explain the cosmos. They also understood that the earth was spherical, and Indian astronomers attempted to calculate the circumference of the planet.

It is difficult to pick out exactly the thoughts of the Indians, because many of their observations and ideas are revealed in religious verses, which are always open to interpretation. Yajnavalkya (c 3rd Millennium BCE) believed in a heliocentric universe, although some verses from as early as 3000 BCE allude to this; however, these early references are vague and we must be careful to apply the same strict definitions that we do to megalithic astronomy and avoid confirmation bias. In his text, called the ‘Shatapatha Brahmana,’ he also measured the distance of the sun from the earth, and the distance of the moon from the earth, to be 108 times the diameter of these bodies, very close to the modern measurements of 107.5 for the sun and 110.6 from the moon. The early Siddhantic Era is poorly recorded and gives only a tantalizing glimpse into the mind of the ancient Indian astronomers and mathematicians. The real Siddhantic Era began later, with the astronomer Aryabhata.

Aryabhata (b476 Ce)

Aryabhata
Aryabhata (Public Domain)
The first properly recorded Siddhantic astronomy began in the 5th Century CE, where Indian astronomers such as Aryabhata (b476 CE) began to adopt a more rigorous, mathematical approach to astronomy, directing it away from mysticism and its emphasis on the calendar. Aryabhata added to the heliocentric theory, proposing the idea that the moon reflects the light of the sun, a theory also proposed by some Greeks but not widely adopted. He also proposed that the earth rotated rather than the skies, although this theory lay undiscovered until the European Renaissance and Copernicus.

His idea, which included mathematical models about how to forecast eclipses, eventually found its way into Europe and influenced Renaissance thought. His book, the ‘Aryabhatia,’ was translated into Latin in the 13th Century. This work gave the Europeans some methods for measuring the volume of spheres and the area of triangles, as well as methods for calculating square roots and cube roots.

Varahamihira (b 476 Ce)

In the 6th Century, Indian astronomers proposed that the same force holding objects to the Earth also held the celestial bodies in place. This was an advance upon Anaximander’s idea of equilibrium and a recognition of a proto-gravitational theory, long before Newton. Varahamihira proposed that there must be some type of attractive force keeping objects stationary.

Brahmagupta (b 598 Ce)

The Siddhantic astronomers also understood that the earth was spherical and attempted to calculate the circumference of the planet. In the 7th Century CE, the astronomer Brahmagupta arrived at a figure of 36 000 kilometers for the circumference of the earth, very close to the actual figure.

Post Siddhantic Astronomy

The period arose because of the rise of Islam in India and the importing of Greek texts, translated into Arabic, into the region. For this reason, it is often known as the Zij Era, after the Zij tablets containing astronomical data. Importantly, the first Zij tablets were translated from Sanskrit, by Al-Khwarizmi (780 – 850 CE), and included the number zero amongst the simpler Indian numbering system, the greatest contribution of the Vedic mathematicians to the Western world.

The influence of the Indian astronomers did not end here, as their work would continue to be used by the Islamic scholars and would form one of cornerstones of Islamic astronomy. During the great Mughal Era of India (1526 – 1725), Hindu mathematical techniques, united with Islamic observational techniques led to great advances in astronomy. Through the British Colonial annexation of India, these techniques became a major part of modern astronomy.

I know about Jesus, what he did to protect mlecchas and respect him. But I can openly dare to say that Jesus is not a match to Buddha in wisdom and knowledge and bible is not better than Buddhist knowledge.

Moreover people like you can’t imagine the vast accurate knowledge of Hinduism. Idol worship is not foolish like you fools think. God is the eternal cosmic energy and he resides in everything and everyone if you are capable to understand the truth. It’s not just worshipping idols.

Matsya protecting Vaivasvata Manu and the seven sages at the time of Deluge
In Hindu tradition, Manu is the name of accorded to a progenitor of humanity being the first human to appear in the world in an epoch after universal destruction. According to the Puranas, 14 Manus appear in each kalpa (aeon). The period of each Manu is called Manvantara.

The current world is that of Vaivasvata, the seventh Manu of the aeon of the white boar (sveta varaha kalpa). Vaivasvata, also known as Sraddhadeva or Satyavrata, was the king of Dravida before the great flood.[1] He was warned of the flood by the Matsya avatar of Vishnu, and built a boat that carried his family and the seven sages to safety, helped by Matsya. The earliest extant text that mentions this story is the Satapatha Brahmana (dated variously from 700 BCE to 300 BCE). The myth is repeated with variations in other texts, including the Mahabharata and the various Puranas. It is similar to other flood myths such as that of Gilgamesh and Noah.[2]

Manus of the current kalpa Edit

According to the Puranas, we currently live in the kalpa (aeon) of the white boar (sveta varaha kalpa), a part of the Kali Yuga.[3] The 14 Manus of the current aeon are:[4]

Svayambhuva
Svarocisa
Uttama
Tamasa
Raivata
Caksusa
Vaivasvata (the current Manu)
Savarni
Daksa Sarvani
Brahma Sarvani
Dharma Sarvani
Rudra Sarvani
Deva Sarvani
Indra Sarvani
Most texts agree on the names of the first 9 manus, but there is some disagreement on the names of the subsequent Manus.

Lifespan Edit

The lifespan of a Manu is called manvantara. According to the Bhagavad Gita, the lifespan of one Manu is 71 Mahayugas (306,720,000 years), and each Mahayuga is 4,320,000 years. (Bhagavad Gita 8.17)[5] The present Manu has already lived for 28 Mahayugas, which is 120,960,000 years.” (Srimad Bhagavatam 4.30.49).[6]

Works ascribed to the Manus Edit

The texts ascribed to the Svayambhuva Manu include Manava Grihyasutra, Manava Sulbasutra and Manava Dharmashastra (Manusmriti or “rules of Manu”).[7] Manusmriti is considered by some Hindus to be the law laid down for humans and is seen as the most important and earliest metrical work of the Dharma??stra textual tradition of Hinduism.[8] At the same time it is a Smriti, so whenever there is a conflict between what is mentioned in it and that mentioned in sruti (Vedas and Upanishads) the latter is considered to be correct as it holds higher spiritual authority

Matsya protecting Vaivasvata Manu and the seven sages at the time of Deluge
In Hindu tradition, Manu is the name of accorded to a progenitor of humanity being the first human to appear in the world in an epoch after universal destruction. According to the Puranas, 14 Manus appear in each kalpa (aeon). The period of each Manu is called Manvantara.

The current world is that of Vaivasvata, the seventh Manu of the aeon of the white boar (sveta varaha kalpa). Vaivasvata, also known as Sraddhadeva or Satyavrata, was the king of Dravida before the great flood.[1] He was warned of the flood by the Matsya avatar of Vishnu, and built a boat that carried his family and the seven sages to safety, helped by Matsya. The earliest extant text that mentions this story is the Satapatha Brahmana (dated variously from 700 BCE to 300 BCE). The myth is repeated with variations in other texts, including the Mahabharata and the various Puranas. It is similar to other flood myths such as that of Gilgamesh and Noah.[2]

Manus of the current kalpa Edit

According to the Puranas, we currently live in the kalpa (aeon) of the white boar (sveta varaha kalpa), a part of the Kali Yuga.[3] The 14 Manus of the current aeon are:[4]

Svayambhuva
Svarocisa
Uttama
Tamasa
Raivata
Caksusa
Vaivasvata (the current Manu)
Savarni
Daksa Sarvani
Brahma Sarvani
Dharma Sarvani
Rudra Sarvani
Deva Sarvani
Indra Sarvani
Most texts agree on the names of the first 9 manus, but there is some disagreement on the names of the subsequent Manus.

Lifespan Edit

The lifespan of a Manu is called manvantara. According to the Bhagavad Gita, the lifespan of one Manu is 71 Mahayugas (306,720,000 years), and each Mahayuga is 4,320,000 years. (Bhagavad Gita 8.17)[5] The present Manu has already lived for 28 Mahayugas, which is 120,960,000 years.” (Srimad Bhagavatam 4.30.49).[6]

Works ascribed to the Manus Edit

The texts ascribed to the Svayambhuva Manu include Manava Grihyasutra, Manava Sulbasutra and Manava Dharmashastra (Manusmriti or “rules of Manu”).[7] Manusmriti is considered by some Hindus to be the law laid down for humans and is seen as the most important and earliest metrical work of the Dharma??stra textual tradition of Hinduism.[8] At the same time it is a Smriti, so whenever there is a conflict between what is mentioned in it and that mentioned in sruti (Vedas and Upanishads) the latter is considered to be correct as it holds higher spiritual authority

Voltaire, the famous French writer and philosopher) stated that “Pythagoras went to the Ganges to learn geometry.” Abraham Seidenberg, author of the authoritative “History of Mathematics,” credits the Sulba Sutras as inspiring all mathematics of the ancient world from Babylonia to Egypt to Greece.

Carl Sagan stated, “Vedic Cosmology is the only one in which the time scales correspond to those of modern scientific cosmology.”

Nobel laureate Count Maurice Maeterlinck wrote of: “a Cosmogony which no European conception has ever surpassed.”

French astronomer Jean-Claude Bailly corroborated the antiquity and accuracy of the Vedic astronomical measurements as “more ancient than those of the Greeks or Egyptians.” And that, “the movements of the stars calculated 4,500 years ago, does not differ by a minute from the tables of today.”

The ninety foot tall astronomical instrument known as Samrat Yantra, built by the learned King Suwai Jai Singh of Jaipur, measures time to within two seconds per day.

Can any western fool show any scientific proof that there was a great flood on earth which matches to the date of genesis flood and Noah concept of your filthy books.

People like you don’t have the ethical right to speak about Hindus and our Vedic knowledge.

If it wasn’t you western invaders we indians would have been much developed than you. You plundered our wealth and knowledge and left poor India.

Before criticizing Hindus and Vedic knowledge first you fools try to read and understand them if you have brains. Hindu Brahmins can calculate the time of eclipse without any modern technology and just with the help of Vedic knowledge. It’s from India the whole world got numbers, mathematics, science, astronomy, medicine, astrology etc. Hindus know that earth was spherical and every planet revolves around the sun thousands of years before you knew. Hindu religion, culture and knowledge is born in India and spread throughout the world from India.

Hindu Brahmins could predict a person’s future right from birth to death with the help of Vedic knowledge and astronomy. We are not culprits like you. God knows the truth who are manipulating the truth and who are evils.

When the dead soon come to life after an Armageddon asteroid impact, then any Hindu also resurrected will rudely say to Noah, that you are not Noah, you cannot be because what you say is not Hindu truth.. WHO do you think will be shamed, or even die because he cannot mold to the truth and reality. IT will be the Hindu.

The succession of who left Ur is as:
Babel was started in 2240bc
Peleg disagreed with Nimrod and so took half the city Kish to go build Ur in 2239bc.
Then grandpa Shelah came to Ur at age 100 in 2233bc with astronomy and he blessed 6-year old Reu who is Chinese king YU. This gave Shelah the name Shiloh the one who knows who should be king.

People started dying young at 240 in 2031bc and so the first to leave Ur was the English-Hittites who built Hatussa in this 2031bc. The rest went with Hyksos to build Memphis Egypt in 2030bc because they followed Shem from Ararat to Canaan and they were too many to all live as the city Salem. Next, in 2029bc the Asians of China and Korea and Japs and Maya (the Mayans are named after Peleg’s mother Maya because Peleg became the first Buddha claimed to go to heaven until HIndu later lied and said preFlood Enoch was the first Buddha. These Asians built Mari Syria in 2029bc but got dragged to Babylon by Hamurabi in 1762bc to increase the number of slaved employees there with Asians of 2029bc that did not make the full journey to build Mari. So Ur was then from 2029-1943bc just Hebrew and Hindu. In 1943bc Abram and Terah told HIndu king AmraPal to screw himself and go to hell and they left burning the house down so the king couldn’t have it. They called him a filthy pig and his father Shulgi they called Dungi the bullcrap because making idols of it to cook with methane did not clean the bullcrap of the ecoli risks of death. These Hindu were destroyed by English-Hittites in 1901bc killing Hindu king Ibbi-Sin and HIndu fled to the Hindu Rver to build Harappa India in 1900bc. Their god became Shiva (Shelah) who died that year at 433. Being Shiloh his kingship ended being no better than the Nimrod of Babel that Peleg had hated. To further illustrate the Hindu pigs is the fact that AmarPal wanted his people back from Abram and so went to Sodom and on the way back to Ur his soldiers were the first to rape these boys before Abram saved them and brought them back to Sodom. Sodom became the pigs they were because of the Hindu who remained in Ur ruling Ur. Sadly all the women of Sodom was destroyed having no say to leave their husbands and brothers and sons in evacuation with Lot. Demons do not believe science. Noah was science and even angels behaving like demons did not believe him.

NOTE the abuse here is not worldwide, just from these Hindu who exalt themselves as the most ancient. But they come here as gynecologist doctors who rape wives, they come as doctors who circumcise the natural protective skin of a wife’s clitoris without HER permission. They exalt themselves as knowing all, and when on the telephone for financial customer service they cannot speak good American English and defend themselves by accusing YOU of being racist. I for my part love the fact India is flat and in bus and on foot because the next continental baptism will drown them all. At least Americans can get to the Rockies faster before asteroid impact opens up the Denver fault line which ends any chance of crossing it to safe mountains. Living in India is like living in Florida. Why would anyone want to stay there when a global disaster begins. I predicted the New Orleans disaster, it came true. San Andreas is here too, but what a joke for a movie, the TV says 1000s were saved by pre-warning and you’re laughing because millions are dead.

Total false approaches both by Mac and Elijah. They seem to be the most fanatic and insane writers. The World must remember especially the western world that The Vedas are the Oldest in Human History and are the only true knowledge of right from Human History to Cosmology. It is the Western Civilization and all the Semetic Religions who have cheated and destroyed the world because of their false beliefs, knowledge and traditions. Their very base is in superstition and therefore they do not have any connection with science. Do not teach knowledge and history to India because India is the creator of all humanity , history and all knowledge.. Please do not post such articles which will create problems in a country like India , which is the only and the last hope of mankind to save itself from destruction.

Spoken like a Catholic cursing the world around. Spoken like a Moslem cursing the world around. The first step to self-destruction and a danger to others too is to think one’s own selfish economic school is the truth that must stop your ears from hearing other people as truth. That perhaps is like Adam killing Eve after a daughter is born. Once you have a son and daughter you can start over by killing that woman mother who rebelled and disagrees with dad. I think not. David killed a man because he seduced himself to take his wife, and the result was David’s son then took one of David’s wives.

I also realized upon Googling Siva (Shiva) Shelah who is said to be the dead Shelah raised to heaven, that since this is 1900bc (at the age of 433) that Shiva was created 120 years after Vish Nu was created in 2020bc as Noah ascended to heaven. Well actually the 120 years i realized in drawing a chart yesterday. However, in reading this here, the idea of VishNu created as a 40-day ascent in 2020bc becomes the Flood 2370bc by the fact that Noah in the ark is also Vish Nu ascending to heaven for 40 days to rest on Ararat. Of course, Hindu calculate this as the 3102bc Flood based on 1200-year Venus (1200x 365 minus 60 days).= 1199 Julian and 5 days. Of course this means they think 1900bc is year 1200, of which Nimrod died in year 1200 (Hebrew Noah’s birth 2970bc to 1770bc; Assyrian Noah’s Flood 2970bc to 1770bc), and by confusing this 23rd year of Hamurabi with 1900bc, it means year 1200 or 1770bc as Nimrod the destroyer who died at 500 is confused with 1900bc as Shelah (Shiva) the destroyer who died at 433, the year after king Ibbi-Sin is killed by the English-Hittites. Plus as Adam’s year 3600, or 2400 before Hindu Flood (5500-3100bc) and 3600 after Hindu Flood (3100bc to 500AD) for 1200 years to 1900bc as Adam’s 3600 (5500-1900bc) and 2400 (1900bc to 500AD), and then honored in 700bc as 4800 plus 1200; all this indicates like confusion with Amizaduga;s 21st year ending in 1625bc.when Hindu brought his Venus tablets from (1625bc) Babylon, not their tablets from (1900bc) Ur. While you divide each nation to rise glorious above the others, I prove they all lie and all twist from one truth they refuse to believe. This not only makes them haters and liars and wicked in heart, it also become humiliating when all this history becomes a resurrected population of mixed humans for the whole 6000 years since Adam. The perfection obtained by forced humiliation finds its issue when 1000 years is reached. Will they be content? Will they not discover age-prevention beyond 1000? Will they feel that perfect now they can create the current old ways of world-planning in a perfect way, pewrfect TV, perfect cars, perfect real estate?

For all Ignorant Moronic Liars and Fraudsters Like Elijah created By West and Illuminati for Last 5000Yrs. Here is aTruth.
Vedic Hindu are Laws of Universe(Dharma).. Vedic Chronology Dates back to 1.93Billion Years and this is recorded in Sanskrit daily as Sankalpa. Siva, Visnu and Sakti Created this Universe for Everyone including Mlechcha(Fraudsters like Elijah) who in KaliYuga(3102BC) onwards, the Day when Vishnu Avatar Krishna Ascended to Vaikuntha Realm and this fact has been twisted. The Flood is the Day when Krishna Ascended 3102BC and flooded Atlantis in Atlantic which Connected Vedic Mayan Civilization to Bharat., It flooded and created Persian Gulf thus Ur which was Vedic Land and Egypt-Ajapati Vedic Lands got cut off from Bharata as Kumari Kundam submerged delinking Australia(Astralaya) from Lanka and Bharata. All happned in 3102BC the Day Lord Krishna left earth. While Earth are all One People of Bharat Origin with M-Haplotyde Root structure and Sanskrit is root language of Universe. Truth about Adama(Adam) and Havyavati(Eve) are Vishnu Dharma Followers whose descendants left it under sin of Serpent KaliYug Asura to create Mlechcha False Cults called Illuminati Mesopotamian Babylonian Cults, Followed By False Cults of Judaism, Xtian and Islamix all created By the same force to divide,and spread Falsehood, which Niw gets exposed with Mounting Scientific Evidences. Truth Will Unfold as in Vedic Texts,in 30Yrs and as Krishna Prophecy that after 5000Yrs, Mother Earth Unravels 10,000Yr Satyuga within Balance of 427,000Yrs of Kaliyuga

5117Years of Kaliyuga passes at 2014 and in 25Yrs, Lord of Universe Multiverse Krishna Prophecy Unravels 10,000Yr Golden Vedic Age as Fraud Middle Cults Destroy each other in Arrogance, Ego, Falsehood and Violence. Its Karma Destined and End of the Era of Mlechchas(False Prophets). Where People know Origin of word Christ is word of Krishna, Vatican is Vishnu Vatika(Garden), Rome(Rama) . Moses(Musa), Adam(Adama), Eve(Havyavati), Yahweh(Shaiva-Shiva), Blue God of Torah(Shiva). Christ spent 16-30 & 32-90 in Bharat learniing Krishna ans Shiva(Isha). Thats why he is known as Isa. Mohd(Mahamad) and Kaba(Kabaleshwar-Shiva Temple with Linga), Sabbath is Saturn Prayer.. Time has come on Mother Earth as Great Souls Come back to Earth on their Karmic Journey to ring in the Sounds of Vedas which is the Source of All Truth within Universe-Multiverse and Links every Being to. Its True Nature… The Advanced Spaceships of Vimannas, the Great Math, Science and Knowledge of Universe Reservoir Vedas will Open to the New World. OM TAT SAT. THAT FACT WHICH IS TRUTH

He (the author) thinks Sanskrit and Hindi was derived from English . This claim that I as the author think this is an outright lie. No where do I say that Sanskrit came from English. English comes from Hattusa and is found in words used in the city Ur. The word Man (Manu) is Noah, and the name Men (Menes) is Narmer, and these names become English, not the other way around, they don’t take it from English. Demons arte not just wicked angels, they are wicked men with wicked hearts with a wicked spirit malice motive in those hearts set for intent of evil. The hatred in these replies is so evident. And the arrogance of implying that I must write with a validation of supporting what India believes instead of unveiling how they even trash the truer knowledge their ancient forefathers had, and will be resurrected after Armageddon to say what did you damn people do to our great libraries of truth. The descendants of pagan nations will be shamed by their own resurrected fathers returning and spitting in their sons faces on how these grown men of the future destroyed all the original truths that their own personal nation had hoped would have the glory to retain for the whole world. Do you really think the Venus tablets brought by Hindu in 1625bc will be a people happy to see that 700bc citizens tagged it as their 1900bc foundation? When parents return to life and find their children 4000 years later were stupid, it is not me you have to face; it will be your ancient parents who will call you people scum for shaming them and their original started efforts. And even accreting their efforts to evolutionary monkeys and spaceships of great galactic knowledge.

Seems like your a-s-s is burnt because the author gave good analysis from different angels and belief systems. Do you know the map of Ram-sin’s (sin aggadic means Moon, Rama-chandra) kingdom when he ruled for 60 years? What language he spoke? Where in Mesopotamia he lived, who was born in Agade/ayodhiya? Which gods and goddesses he worshiped? How many different kinds of peoples or races he employed in his army? What was his diet, was he a vegetarian or a non-vegetarian? What was the ancent name of Gujarat in Ram-Chandra’s time? Your mythological Vedic books were written thousands of years after those events, which became legends of folklores and myths written by the Sumerian Lugals/Brahmins in the lowest rung Indo-Iranian language called Sanskrit, which was not born in Ram-sin’s time.

The people of india are the most corruptive influence on true astronomy (they have not gotten to the moon) and most corruptive on true medicine (they get sick and die and cook on cow shet cakes) and they have destroyed what was once a true chronology that added 1200 years to 6000 by putting end-to-end the 2400+3600 of 1625bc claiming it is 1900bc to create the 700bc conclusion of the 4800+1200 which gets discarded when a new world doesn’t arrive in 500 AD. They are a people like Catholics who think all things are a fate of God to be happy with no matter what the crime, who does it, or who suffers for it. Yet America let’s them into our schooled beliefs just because of American hatred for Bible and its God. I came upon my own article here while seeking the evidence that Harappa India built to honor Shiva in 1900bc is evidence that the Shiva is the resurrection of Genesis Shelah to heaven when he died at age 433 in 1900bc causing the Hindus to leave the destruction of Ur by English-Hittites of Ararat (Turkey)

The author unfortunately has got all the facts wrong. As per Vedas, each cycle of existence – mind you there are multiple cycles is 4320000 years long; the distance between Sun and Earth is between 140000000 to 150000000 km and the universe is a single large entity called Shakti (meaning energy) or Vishnu (ever prevalent energy being) and all matter gets converted into pure energy. As per Vedas – we beings who are bound in a three dimensional system (we unfortunately cannot even move across time dimension) live our life in time-frames and hence cannot comprehend the complete picture (let me explain – it is like a being bound to a single dimension looking assuming that the world is a single line). Vedas came from a far ancient past – from other worlds which are long bygone and are more than a billion years old. Nearly a million years ago, a group of learned beings who transcended and attained an ability to move across in the fourth dimension, put the fragmented texts lost in the annals of time together and wrote summaries and stories around them to explain to the learned and the unlettered amongst future generations. It is a bit difficult to comprehend, as one needs to go beyond Newtonian plane for it.
Let us however not point fingers at the author; every day we learn something new and expand our knowledge; our words and thoughts today must be different from our thoughts say ten years ago – I am certain that even our dear author must have learnt a lot since the article got printed. Life continuum is meant for learning, growing and transcending; so let us learn to educate one another and learn from one another

Sun is shrinking and loosing 5 million tonnes of mass every second. The scientists say that the sun’s diameter is shrinking 0.1% every century or about 5 feet per hour. Now count the time backwards and match it with your figures and find how foolishly and blindly you are following the myths of brahminical idolatry.

Otherwise, scroll down and read my other comment, which are based on history, archeology and science.

Is it necessary to toil day and night formulating theories from obscure information from the past when refined information is available from other sources? [Consider enlightening your knowledge through the revelatory knowledge given in the Urantia Book. More information about it here: http://www.urantia-india.faithweb.com

The pity of religion is the scheming of man for his own leverage. Held in the interlace of godly insight is His message to those who seek. Read the book of Life which is everywhere silent but apparent to your soul.

After reading this extremely anti-hindu and stupid article written by a insane bible thumping red neck , i have decided to un-subscribe from your newsletter .

1 . The author doesn’t even have the basic knowledge of the antiquity of Sanskrit ( we call it Sanskritam ) . He thinks Sanskrit and Hindi was derived from English .

I know u wont agree with anything said or written by Hindu scientists/philosophers so I would love to remind you that your own “non-pagan” Indologist Max Muller has called Sanskrit the most advanced and ancient language of the world with an exceptional grammatical system and unmatched vocabulary .

2. the tales of Noah has been copied from Hinduism ‘s historical account of Manu

3.Vishnu is the protector and preserver of the universe . While Jehovah as he appears in the Old Testament was a crazy psychopath who killed thousands of people , performed all sorts of irrational brutality on humans . If u call the fictional psychopathic character of Jehovah a “GOD” then you will find it more sane and justifiable to praise Idi Amin , Pol Pot and your own very-christian Hitler . In the bible belt i am sure there will be “Church of Hitler” , “Hitler’s Witness” etc

4 .”This word shar becomes in English the word for king of kings as a Czar or Tsar or Caesar or Kaiser”

Any historian and linguist will educate you that the word “Caesar ” taken from the Pagan Jupiter and Apollo worshipping Julius Caesar was copied by all the christian emperors of roman and byzantine empires as well as Russia “Czar” , and Germany’s “Kaiser” . Shame on you for spreading blatant lies .

5.”Thus the 1200-year cycle is Venus not Jupiter as the Hindu and all of India and all of Asia claims it to be. This is why America got to the moon and nations did not. It is why they put up communication satellites and pagan religious nations did not. The religions are false science; they are not the true Jehovah. Their chronology back to the Flood is false because they use false planets not true planets. Life depends on truth.”

Again a bunch of lies , India a so called “third world” pagan country( according to bible thumping racist rednecks) is a world leader in Space Technology . We despite having very few resources , money and man power has managed to send a satellite to MOON , let alone feeble communication satellites . We have sent lots of satellites like communication satellites , remote sensing satellites a radar satellite etc . has the christian country of italy done anything?

“If a child grows up molested by relative-pedophiles, so many people are awed by the fact that instead of dying or suicide that these people then survived by becoming criminals or schizophrenic multiple personalities behaving
like demons inside them. This is what Jesus said is the making of people worthy of Gehenna by false-preaching.”

“Once the personality is destroyed, how do you bring it back? Can it be reborn, killing the old bad personalities?”

Jehovah Whitness are criminels and they rob too like Catholic, vermine that is.

You need history to back up your argument, which your Brahmins have twisted as per their whims and the poets have glorified it. But, you worship money, Laxmi Auntie. Jesus said in Luke 16:13 “No one can serve two masters. Either you will hate the one and love the other, or you will be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve both God and MONEY.” Indians are Elamites, Medes, Amorites and Dravidians. Amroites/Martus/Marutis like Hanuman of Bander E Lengha in Persian Gulf, a sea farer was the friend of Ram-sin of Agade (ayodhiya) of Mesopotamia. Ram-sin (sin in aggadic means Moon, Ram-Chandra), who ruled for 60 years (Dasratha Jhatka) in Mesopotamia, whose brother was Warad-sin (Bharat) and their father Tussrat (Dasrath, owner of ten-fold chariots) were all Sumerian/Elamites and spoke Aggadic language. Sanskrit and Prakhrit were not even born at that time. Ram-sin’s arch enemy was Hammurabi of Babylon (means confusion). He had on his shield written Ravi-anna or Ravana. He was the first human law giver. Google for the Code of Hammurabi, the stele of his edict are still into existence. He had a wisdom of ten wisemen NOT ten heads as your Lugals/Brahmins always have portrayed the enemies as Rakshasas/Giants/Ashuras/Demons etc. He became the arch enemy of Ram-sin after Ram-sin took over Lar or Laristan, which covers south-east Mesopotamia (half of Gujarat and NW India of today). Lar is the ancient name of Gujarat. At that time, people did not spread further in the world after the Babylonian dispersal. Only the Japhethites (descendants of Japheth means “extended boundry”) lived in far North of Mesopotamia. The descendants of Shem (means Aryan) eldest son of Noah and Ham (means burnt or dark) lived in Mesopotamia, Egypt and Babylonia. After Noah’s flood, Nimrod (means rebellion) became the first king and ruled over all the descendants of sons of Noah at Babylon (Ur, Najaf and Fallujah, the sunni triangle). Nimrod was a chaotic one, founder of idolatry and paganism. His mother cum concubine named Semiramis founded the myth of reincarnation after Nimrod’s death saying that the child she is preganent is Nimrod re-born (avatar). Both duo of mother and son are worshiped in all pagan countries of this world. Nimrod is Egyptian Osiris, Babylonian Gilgamesh, Persian Zoroaster, Greek Zeus, Odin, Roman Hercules, Hungarian Menrot, Arabian Baal or Allah, Sumerian Dagon, Roman Jupiter, Poseidon, Neptune, Hercules, Indian Vishnu, Shiva and Brahma and his mother Semiramis is Kali the dark one, Allemma who made boundries, Jagadambha the mother of universe, Simavahini who rides on the Lion, etc just in Indian paganism of idolatry. She started myths of reincarnation, temple prostitution and goddess worship. Few of her aliases in other cultures are Allilah, Ariadne, Astarte, Cybele; Goddess with the 12 stars; celibacy is required of her priests, Diane, Ishtar; Babylonian sun-goddess, Isis; Egyptian sun-goddess, Laksjmi, Lady Liberty, Rhea; Goddess of the hunt, Sin; the moon god(dess), Venus; Goddess of Love), etc, etc, etc. The list goes on.

Genesis chapter 10 describes how the present world population was derived from Noah’s three sons: Shem, Ham and Japheth, and their wives (three family groups). Verse 32 states, “From these the nations spread out over the earth after the flood.” Additional references are given in 1 Chronicles chapter 1. Genesis 10 exactly names 16 grandsons of Noah, and then we are provided further details of the Babel dispersion (Genesis 11) where their descendants fanned out over the earth and established the various nations of the ancient world. The number of descendants of Noah (grandsons, great-grandsons, etc.) mentioned are 26 from Shem, 30 from Ham, and 14 from Japheth, totaling 70 “sons” or “nations.” These 70 nations are the descendants (generations, genealogies or family histories) of the sons of Noah, known from Hebrew antiquity (Talmudic tradition of seventy nations in the world), and other ancient sources.

Early history shows the Japhethites split into two groups. One group settled in the region of present-day India and Central Asia, and the other group in the European theater. Indo-European languages originate from those people groups who migrated throughout western Eurasia (Europe, the Near East, Anatolia, and the Caucasus). Together they form what is known as the “Indo-European” family of nations. Both of these divisions trace their ancestry back to Japheth. For example, early Aryans knew him as Djapatischta (Chief of the race), Greeks referred to Japheth as Iapetos or Japetos, East Indians called him Jyapeti or Pra-Japati, Romans used Ju-Pater or Jupiter, the Saxons perpetuated his name as Iafeth, subsequently transliterated as Sceaf (pronounced “sheef” or “shaif”—and recorded his name in their early genealogies as the son of Noah, the forebear of their various peoples), and the variant Seskef was used by early Scandinavians. All of these peoples, we must remember, were pagans whose knowledge or even awareness of the book of Genesis had been lost, or was non-existent.

Hebrews descended from Eber (Heber), a great-grandson of Shem. Six generations after Heber, Abram (Abraham) was born, so Abraham was both a Hebrew and a Semite, born of the line of Heber and Shem. Ishmael and Isaac were born of Abraham. However, Ishmael was born of an unlawful union between Abraham and his Egyptian maid Hagar (Genesis 16, Galatians 4), making Ishmael half Semitic and half Hamitic. Sunnite Arabs (specifically Arabian Muslims) consider themselves to be descendants of Ishmael, often calling themselves Ishmaelites, and thus are both Semitic Hebrews and Hamites. To this day the descendents of Ishmael (Arabs) and his half-brother brother Isaac (Israelites) have fought over which family group is Abraham’s true spiritual heir, specifically relating to ownership of land in the Middle East. Thus, there has been an unsolvable problem, and the nation of Israel is progressively being forced to give up land for peace.

Noah’s second son was Ham. Also Cham or Kham. Literal meanings are passionate, hot, burnt or dark (father of the Australoid, Negroid and Mongoloid people groups – Hamites). He was the progenitor of:

Tribes in other parts of Africa, Arabia and Asia, aboriginal groups in Australia, native Pacific Islanders, American Indians and Eskimos were birthed from descendants of Canaan, Cush, Mizraim and Phut.

Japheth. Also Diphath. Literal meanings are opened, enlarged, fair or light (father of the Caucasoid/Indo-Europoid, Indo-European, Indo-Germanic, or Indo-Aryan people groups – Japhethites). Japheth is the progenitor of seven sons:

Mac, youre way off. Those are not names of Nimrod. Osiris existed as the moon before Nimrod died. The 243-year Venus Semiramis is also before he died. As for Zoroaster, the Persian Feb 3 Christmas of 2020bc is Noah’s death of year 350, not Nimrod’s death of year 950. So many lying claims when math and calendar and stars prvoe the truth that people like you will rant endlessly against with claims that are not so, and have no proof, alot of quotes and books saying so, these lies, yet the evidence, the stars, the calendars, all proving these doctrines as lies.

Thank you (VeryBad) for some word examples proving how both Sanskrit and English come from the Hittite city of Hattusa Ararat. The fact that India dispersed from 3rd dynasty Ur in 1900bc (year 470 after Flood 2370bc is twice or 2 out of 5 of the 235-year sidereal Venus pentacle, not twice the 600-year half-cycle of 1200 years after Flood 3102bc). However, English words also come from Ur among the Hebrew and Hindu residents after Asians left (in 2029bc) north to build Mari Syria, and after Ur’s destruction which dispersed Hindu to establish Harappa India, these Mari Syrian Asians were taken to Babylon (in 1762bc) to join Hindu there, who all Asians then followed the second wave of Hindu to Harappa in 1625bc release. Evidence indicates since i wrote this article that the Chinese-Korean-Japanese-Mayans did not follow the first Hindu to Harappa. All came as an intrusion to India in 1625bc and that is why they eventually moved on unwanted, and wiser than the Hindu fools.

You need to prove this satellite of the moon, where is it circling the moon. It is not. You need to prove where you think sending anythign to land on the moon is greater than landing men on that moon. This God Jehovah is very clear on indicating there will be only ONE reincarnation back to life on earth, and that the liars will die forever when they keep attitudes like yours which kill you and kill others.

the truth matter to us?,as a hindu munk yes the cycles do go on. the 864.000 year before this 4rth cycle we are in now 5.013 till this cycle ends. we are in the last of 4 then the 1st will start again. we must learn now what is true and understand what is going to happen to us. as we munks read the old sanskrit -vedas old hindu books we know what will be, you also can read in english hindu books and try to understand what is true or not true deside for yourself .( sorry for bad english)

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