Austria and Denmark joined the Reich last month. USA agents are too busy instigationg coups in Latin America. A failed coup in Chile resulted in a communist countercoup, and Chile now is formally allied to USSR. In the same way, a coup in Haiti resulted in a Pro German government.

Bombur -> RE: Another GD 1938 game (4/4/2012 12:07:27 AM)

Italy: February 1938 Rumania joined Italy last month Albaina joined Italy in this turn. Troops in Ethiopia and Somalia are low on supplies....we need a way to feed them...

Bombur -> RE: Another GD 1938 game (4/4/2012 12:33:36 AM)

Japan:

No offensive operations, the Japanese are probing the Japanese defenses

Kraftwerk -> RE: Another GD 1938 game (4/4/2012 2:09:15 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bombur

Japan:

No offensive operations, the Japanese are probing the Japanese defenses

No offensives is right! The japanese are running around in circles probing themselves! lol :)

USA - Simon Bolivar would be proud, a number of central and south american nations join the greater 'United States of the America's'

The Haitians side with the filthy germans, and the Chileans side with the not quite as filthy, but still dirty, soviets.

Next turn i'll attempt to pull Brazil, Argentina and Mexico into the greater USTA sphere.

China - A few divisions are routed by a limited Japanese assault, lines are shortened, the command situation is sorted out, and a shock army is formed for fire brigade duty using tankettes and the german trained rifle divisions.

Bombur is going to experience a well run defense in depth by the chinese.

All machine guns are striped from units and sent to the divisions digging in, in and around the major cities.

The Chinese air force is consolidated, and production begins of heavy machine guns for defending key objectives, and gun boats to harass the japanese shipping and cost them some oil is begun.

Mongolia joins the nationalist chinese forces to open up a northern front to press the flanks of the Japanese army. Theyre no Mao's Army, but they will have to do.

Kraftwerk -> RE: Another GD 1938 game (4/5/2012 8:37:34 PM)

USA - Upon realizing he had no civil engineers actually JOIN the civil corps of engineers during the first 6 years of the New Deal, FDR decides to conscript a few into the army.

How else can his dream of a true pan american highway be realized!

Mexico is convinced of the greatness of this plan, as theyre the starting point of this grand highway system. Argentina, fearful of the pavement hating communists to their west, also agree to join the united states plan for a great pan american civilization.

Woe unto thee who stand in the way of this great endeavor. Soviet union...Germany...youre ruining my dreams, kindly hand over Chile and Haiti and no one gets hurt.

For the nations who failed to manifest their true destiny....war is the only answer. Now if I can only get the american public to see it that way.

China - The japanese hold their positions and wave their technological finger at the chinese lines. Around 6,000 men are killed, maimed, or missing after artillery and airstrikes rock condensed points along the front.

After the reorginization of the army and air corps, china is able to return the blow, albeit with much less success.

New HMGs reach front line units in and around major cities and the SNLF landing in the south. A 2nd armored division is created, as is a shock/fire brigade army in the corridor between the japanese forces.

Situation is bad, but far from grim so far.

Bombur -> RE: Another GD 1938 game (4/5/2012 11:43:34 PM)

March 1938

Germany: No news Italy: No news Japan: The Chinese were able to inflict some losses to the Japanese forces, using their aircraft, but they lost 60 planes (against 40 Japanese). In return, Japanese aircraft and artilley, including a small battleship taskforce, inflicted about 8,000 losses to the Chinese. However, Chinese prodduction will replace this losses and much more....we hope to improve the situation when our brand new Ki-21īs reach the frontlines.

Kraftwerk -> RE: Another GD 1938 game (4/6/2012 7:43:47 PM)

Usa - Brazil is brought into the United States of the Americas. The germans, soviets and japanese are warned against any infraction of the USTA sphere or Oceania.

The Pan American highway is begun along a pre-existing roadway between San Antonio Texas and Monterey Mexico.

Some nations in the path of this great endeavor in central america did not agree to be a party to it. Since a further coup appears impossible, and the USA people dont support war, it is not sure what is to be done. However it is noticed that there is port linkage around these speed bumps, then in former south america, Peru, though Brazil, down to Argentina is open to the continuation of the pan american highway.

A small ferry ride might actually be a nice addition.

Plans are drawn up to improve these nations production efficiency so they may better help in the realization of a total United Americas.

Tensions mount between the USTA and Japan as the USTA has stopped oil exports to the island nation. Its no secret that Nationalist China and the USTA have deep ties, and Japanese aggression in the region, and now their lust for war material, make other targets in Oceania, clearly in the USTA sphere, targets of imperialist Japanese invasion. Since their SNLF marines have proved so effective, it appears no where is safe in the Pacific.

Troops are sent to Guam, Hawaii and the Phillipines to stave off any early invasion. Recon planes are ordered for Grumman. We have to keep on eye on them.

China -

Several thousand are killed by japanese air, artillery, and naval bombardment. Along with the usual death due to starvation, disease, and accident. The large and unwieldy chinese army is finally under full control however, and prepares counter operations incase of all possible avenues of attack.

2 fully equipped shock armies prepare for stop gapping and counter offensives. The chinese now boast a tank force a similar size to that of Japan, tho of lesser quality (however the Chinese post 20% higher morale! fighting to the death is surely an option, and will be employed to try and bleed the japanese dry enough that further operations against foreign powers are delayed until the 1940s)

Imported through Malaya, american and british submachine guns are added to poorly trained but now brilliantly equipped Urban Warfare units. These units make their way for the cities, training with their new weapons along the way.

A steel locomotive is constructed, and a few flak guns are attached to towing cars. Hopefully this hodgepodge of gun and machine can provide some anti air cover to strategic locations at just the right moment.

Over 65 heavy machine gun battalions have been added to front line units in addition to regular replacement cycles. They may only be of WWI quality, but in numbers they can turn the tide of any battle. Especially in urban battle.

The chinese air force has taken a hit over the past months, and will soon be pulled back to rest up.

Bombur -> RE: Another GD 1938 game (4/6/2012 9:02:21 PM)

Germany is shocked by the news of a coup in Hungary.Our old friend, Admiral Horthy was deposed by an alliance between communists and the so called democrats...the new government make an alliance with France. We also had good news, Czechkoslovakia is annexed to the Great German Empire.

Italy: A failed coup in Arabia resulted in a pro Italian government. We now can develop our African possessions with the help of Arabian oil

Japan: The Japanese high command is growing increasingly nervous with the lack of progress in the Chinese Front. The Chinese are losing about 12000 man each month, more than a division, but, for each Chinese we kill, it seems ten appear to take his place. To make things even worse, we lost ten of our precious Fiat BR.20 to heavy machinegun fire. The new Ki-21 started operations against Chinese units. There are some complaints about the small bombload carried by that plane, but it seems to be fast and reliable.

Kraftwerk -> RE: Another GD 1938 game (4/10/2012 6:22:59 PM)

USA - Construction continues on the Pan American Highway. The roadway now snakes as far south as vera cruz. Engineers head to the midwest to begin construction of New Deal Industries' pre-planned factory towns. The first will produce advanced parts for the assembly of artillery pieces of various kinds. FDR realizes there are no anti aircraft guns anywhere to be found, coastal guns are limited, and field pieces are scarce. We will need to remedy this.

Engineers also board ships for the southern USTA to start building up that end of the highway and construct the ferry points.

Upon further inspection of the army, its noticed there is a staff deficency, as well as an organizational nightmare after the addition of so many new nations military forces.

All forces are sent back to high commands for an entire restructuring, the airforce and navy are included.

China -

Harassing of the Manchu's northern territories continues and forces occupy the mountain ridge preventing access to Mongolia. A Japanese independent BDE is cut off from supply as Mongolian raiders cut the rail lines south of their position and continue on eastwardly into the heavy forests of northern Mangkukou.

4 Gunboat squadrons train up in offensive hit and run tactics and prepare to set sail.

Bombur -> RE: Another GD 1938 game (4/11/2012 12:36:32 AM)

The IJAAF have been reported a sharp increase in aircraft losses, as Chinese units are being equipped with heavy machine guns. Ten of our new Ki-21īs were lost to these weapons. As a consequence, bomber aircraft are targeting machineguns emplacements, with pretty good results. At least 170 heavy mgīs were lost by the Chinese. In Mongolia the Chinese raiders were cut from their supply lines.

The american eastern army isnt bad off, but it needs artillery, support units, a carrier, more cruisers, and troop transports.

I can also write off and maybe disband the 33 Fighter Is. I may leave them on 50% supply, and give them to an ally at some point however, so maybe ill keep them around.

In the west, units are still arriving in San Francisco and there hasnt been a head count.

In central and south america the forces there have been grouped up. Cargo ships have been sent to pick them up and other various stranded american units up, and take them to Jacksonville Florida for reorganization into the USTA's first assault army. These new nations need to prove themselves, and well frankly in game terms they dont do anything but die, so theyre the perfect forces to throw into a meat grinder somewhere to buy time, or to fight other minors, in china, or the balkans. Even in india or north africa.

All the defenses of the USTA will be manned by north americans until such time as the USTA can afford to train the new nations troops to the same standard, as well as increase the level of basic training.

China -

Japanese technology continues to kill 10,000 men a month, but over 120,000 are added to front line units in the same time span.

The Mongolian raiders have proved most useful, and 2 chinese independent divisions, as well as a german trained rifle division move north east to assist the mongolian forces.

These brave fighters, who know certain doom awaited them, have cut the rail lines south from Mangkukou (Manchuria) dropping supply to some of the Japanese forces to 50% of nessacary levels.

A battle of "who encircled who" continues on the northern manchurian border with Russia.

A letter from Comrade Stalin tells that he is quite amused at the actions on his border.

The Japanese Army was able to destroy the Chinese unit that blocked the Manchurian railroad. There were no survivors. Japanese artillery and air units were also able to kill about 14000 Chinese troops this turn. Japanese losses up to now were minimal but the Emperor is anxious about the lack of territorial progress....

Bombur -> RE: Another GD 1938 game (4/15/2012 8:19:40 PM)

Turn 8-July 1938

Germany: The British annexed Holland and are fortifying their borders. Italy: No news Japan: The war with China goes on, with an excellet kill rate for Japan, but no territorial gains..Aircraft production increased, but Japan lacks fuel for extensive naval operations.

Bombur -> RE: Another GD 1938 game (4/21/2012 11:16:42 PM)

September 1938

-Germany: German diplomacy suffered a serious setback, as a failed fascist coup in Sweden resulting in a countercoup. The new government made an alliance with Great Britain. -Italy: Italy annexed Spain -Japan: The attrition war with China goes on. The improvement of Chinese antiair defenses resulted in serious losses for the Japanese airforce, including 30 close support aircraft (in the next version we will have the Ki-30 in this role). A new chemical industry was built in Manchuria, easing fuel shortages.

Kraftwerk -> RE: Another GD 1938 game (4/22/2012 5:16:07 PM)

USTA - Construction on the Pan American Highway nears completion, both ferry points in central america are loaded with freighters and the docks are expanded to handle the larger ships.

The reorganization of the military is complete. There is now a Western Command and Theater, and an Eastern Command and Theater. Each with a National Guard, Latin Army, tactical air assets, and light naval vessels. The next step is to outfit the units with proper artillery and equipment, then better training for both national, and latin troops. Then Garrison the coastal cities and outlying islands and territories with SMG and HMG units, and construct naval patrols for the massive coastline. 2 SFTs per large coastal city should be enough.

But before any of that happens, production must be fully upgraded. I produce 250 PPs a turn now, and just got the 700 PP upgrade to my production bringing it up to a whopping 150% efficiency. Next will be the 1000 PP upgrade to non national production, and then an upgrade to 175% production.

The goal is to produce 350 pps a turn, to stay as up to date with tech as possible and snag all the upgrades before the war starts. Im off to a good start 10 turns in.

Once the war starts, I can use that massive PP income to produce factories, and let those do the building of the equipment that will be needed, leaving cities to produce more PPs for more factories for supply and fuel.

Depending on how aggressive the axis, and ussr become, we may be able to try and seize and opportunity to 'paint the world blue'.

And who knows, perhaps the soviet union and axis throw their hats into the ring together. From the sea of Japan, all the way to the tip of the Iberian penisula would be a bloc of power. Thats the only way I see the US being seriously rivaled.

Somewhere along the line, ill of course save england, and whats left of french africa, but thats a minor concern. I dont want to get caught up fighting a naval war of attrition with Japan, because I plan to use those ships in the Atlantic preventing the total collapse of the allies. If Japan were to happen to take all the allied holdings in the south pacific, that would just give the USTA a chance to "liberate" them. Self deemed 'Fortress Luzon' surely wont be falling. I can stage all kinds of nastiness from the Phillipines and Samoa.

China -

40mm Bofors guns imported from Sweden down a large number of low flying japanese aircraft. A few pilots were captured and interrogated about japanese plans, but they refused to talk before being executed. The Japanese technological advantage continues to rear its ugly head however, as another 22,000 Chinese are killed, or maimed by bombardments and attrition. The Anti Air units should begin to limit this as they arrive at all front line units. Chinese workers begin hand assembling field guns en masse, its hoped large formations of these cheap field pieces can be a match for the smaller but much more advanced pieces of the Nipponese army.

In manchuria, survivors of the raiders trickle back across the mountain range and receive much celebration by national chinese forces that have moved into place to support them. Some of the experienced cavalry crews receive upgrades to their horses. Now they ride tankettes. A newly created offensive army moves up the line west of the mountain range towards manchuria to also take part in the action. Returning raiders report the construction of a fuel facility along the same rail line as the supply factory. Its critical that an operation sever this rail link once again.

If successful, that operation, an other operations, will have kept the Japanese army in place for an entire year.

Its been almost two years since Chaing Kishek foolishly crossed the Marco Polo bridge in a failed attempt to push the Japanese out of Manchuria. The world had seen it, and fortunately his troops as well, as Japanese aggression, not Chinese aggression. It was just the first of many offensively minded defensive tactics. But deep down Chaing knew it was a failure. He had hoped his troops had the skill and training, not just the willingness, to beat the japanese forces all the way back into Korea. But it appears the Germans were right, even if they lost the great war. You need well trained rifle divisions.

In the hills a peasant farmer named Mao claims that "In protracted war, it is Men, not Weapons, that are the deciding factor", Kishek scoffs at this idea, and wonders if Mao has ever seen a formation of 300 Japanese planes.

Learning his lesson, the conscript armies are no more. While China is the industrial and technological inferior to Japan, it has one solid hope. That the world sees Japan as the aggressor, and Japan lacks the resources of industrial base of the western nations. If China can make it bloody enough, and hold out long enough, Japan may be forced to the table, or attacked by the western powers.

Bombur -> RE: Another GD 1938 game (4/26/2012 2:39:00 AM)

November 1938

Germany: no news

Italy: no news

Japan: The Japanese air force changed tactics after an increase in overall losses due to the new Chinese heavy AA guns. Targets were carefully selected and areas of heavy opposition were avoided. As a result, Japanese losses decreased to only 10 fighters while the Chinese lost 70 aircraft in the month. Chinese infantry losses decreased but Japanese bombers and artillery destroyed lots of Chinese heavy equipment and also killed some staff. The fuel situation will improve and allow more naval operations in the next months. On the other side, our aircrafts are reporting activity from American submarines near the Japanese coast. What are they doing?

Kraftwerk -> RE: Another GD 1938 game (4/27/2012 10:04:47 PM)

USTA - Pan American Highway finishes on schedule, and industrial upgrades are sent to Latin American factories. New factories are planned all across the continental united states.

The soviet union has declared war on poland in a surprise move. This helps open the USTA for war.

China - The first successful attack by chinese forces against the japanese aggressors has taken place in Manchuria. Tankettes and Riflemen push back a Japanese Cavalry unit. More flak guns head to front line units, and combat engineers begin training to help keep up entrenchment under the japanese bombardment.

A unit of new japanese tanks, bigger and heavier than any thing seen before has been spotted. These must be to deal with the tankettes china has produced. This is very good news. Production and strategic thought are being mustered against us. We are respected as a real enemy.

Now if only someone would come save us. Canned food from the united states begins arriving by submarine, along with intelligence gathered about japanese operations. The people in america dont support intervention, but they will provide some aid still.

Bombur -> RE: Another GD 1938 game (4/28/2012 9:38:23 PM)

December 1938.

Germany and Italy are confused with the Bolshevik surprise attack against Poland, shouldnīt Poland be part of the Greater German Reich? How will the West reacts, maybe we could play the West againt the Reds? The premature arrival of the war resulted in Hitler ordering a massive increase of military production. Mussolini is more cautious as Italy is already spending too much in weapons, while manpower is being drained dangerously. It seems Italy has biten more than it can chew.....

Japan: here are some execerpts of an intel report leaked to the westen press, the Emperor is furious with both the leaking and the report itself.....

.....the army must understand that the window of opportunity to seize all of China is lost. The Chinese Army is growing not only in numbers but also in proficiency. Their AA guns are now everywhere and are making air missions very dangerous. Itīs possible that a counteroffensive will start in some areas, we have just lost an entire infantry division and lots of artillery pieces in the South, an area where the enemy was unable to do anything in the last months.... .....December was the first month the Japanese suffered more losses the inflicted to the enemy...most casualties were the result of counterbattery fire and an ambush against the already mentioned infantry division. Air losses also were heavy. .....maybe it is still possible to keep the captured areas. If we prepare a good defensive strategy and inflict massive losses to the Chinese, we still could reach favorable peace terms, and a substantial territorial gain for our Co-prosperity sphere. It should be noticed that, despite the recent setbacks, Chinese losses were very heavy while our own were very small. ...and unknown variable here is the shift in USA public opinion after the Soviet attack on Poland. Itīs possible that it will result in an eventual intervention of USA to bring some order to chaos in Eurasia, and we the combination of USA technology with Chinese numbers will surely result in defeat for Japan. ....we strongly suggest a defensive strategy, combined with strategic bombing of slected Chinese targets in order to make the war very costly to them. We stronlgy suggest the development of long range escort fighters. There is some doubt on what would be the better plane to achieve these tasks. The army suggests the development of a heavy fighter like the Bf-110A or the Potez 630. The Navy isnīt impressed with these machines, they could outperform the Chinese I-15īs but itīs unikely they will survive better equipment, like, say the P-35īs or I-16īs. The navy is working in new carrier based fighter, which, they say, will be able to fly at 530km/h and reach targets at a distance of 10 hexes. Fairy tales aside, this wonder machine will be ready only by early 1940. ....against a enemy that lacks air cover, the idea of having four engine bombers being used against strategic targets is a nice one. However, it would be easy for the Chinese to build thousands of AA guns to cover the main targets. These large bombers are also too expensive for Japan to build.

Kraftwerk -> RE: Another GD 1938 game (4/28/2012 11:48:19 PM)

In all seriousness, the aggression of the soviet union threatens both China AND Japan, if some sort of agreement could be made that left china in a position to still participate in the world stage, we'd be all ears. This would surely relax tensions between the united states and Japan as well.

Im sure it didnt help that I snagged Mongolia from them either. Thats a good thing to get as the soviets to widen the front against Japan should it come to war. I did sorta help weaken Jurgens position.

I dont think China can declare war on anyone however, im not sure how that works. But perhaps it can become allied with someone and share its units/production? And of course if the Bear wants all of Asia, he's going to have to go through me as well as you to get it.

Kraftwerk -> RE: Another GD 1938 game (5/1/2012 4:27:18 PM)

USTA - Not much happens, currently at 806 PPs, producing 267 a turn, so next turn ill have my 1,000 PPs for the occupation technology that raises my latin and south american cities production to 75%, a 25% boost. This should get me up to 310 PPs a turn. Then ill get the basic training, and cooperation techs, to get fighting ability up.

The red lines are my Shock Armies. In the north, 3rd Shock Army has displaced a Japanese infantry division saving the Mongolian raiders who have been behind enemy lines for 7 months. We are now offensively capable.

In the center, the Japanese move foward (notated by the orange blob moving near the city), and 2nd Shock Army moves north to the roads to counter the japanese assault. Chinese air and artillery attacks are successful and a number of Japanese soldiers feel what the chinese have been feeling for the better part of a year. The large black circle is the other half of 3rd Shock Army who is being utilized to threaten the flanks of the Japanese assault.

The black lines are my fortified lines.

In the east things are quiet for now, 3rd Shock Army stays at the ready incase of fire. It has been broken into two seperate corps, that accounts for the two red squares in the south and east.

For the first time casualty reports were nearly even, with 40 japanese planes being downed.

Overall a good month for china, but the renewed japanese effort has us on our toes.

Kraftwerk -> RE: Another GD 1938 game (5/1/2012 4:40:10 PM)

And for what its worth, I CAN declare war (or ally) with the USSR, so China CAN be viable on the world stage.

Mao and Chaing seem to be setting aside their differences? Perhaps its time for some talks in Pongyang Bombur?

Bombur -> RE: Another GD 1938 game (5/2/2012 1:36:56 AM)

Axis turns.

In a surprise movement, Germany not only joins the attack against Poland, but also offered an alliance to USSR. Hitler claims the the only objetive is to retake Danzing, thus relieving the local population from their Polish opressors. The Polish airforce was almost destroyed by the Luftwaffe.

Italy also offered an alliance to USSR and Germany, but didnīt declare war on aynone

In another suprise, the Japanese Army finally understood the risks involved in the war against China. An unilateral cease fire was put on effect and talks are being held in Pyongiang. It seems our partners in the Anticomintern pact are fool enough to ignore the threat posed by international communism, so China and Japan must be united to defend the western (????) civilization.

Kraftwerk -> RE: Another GD 1938 game (5/2/2012 4:49:43 AM)

The co-prosperity sphere grows. Being puppeted is perferrable to annexation.

Kraftwerk -> RE: Another GD 1938 game (5/4/2012 7:43:00 PM)

USTA - The world breaks into war. Chaos has overtaken the globe.

Finally the the citizens of the americas see what FDR has seen all along. Now at 2% chance to wake up and melt faces.

China - A ceasefire is signed with Japan. Two reserve armies and a shock army, as well as the mongolians and their chinese support already in the AO, prepare for operations against communist forces to the north.

Mao is not happy, but he is no friend to the Black Asians either. Better to befriend the beast of shinto than the beast of atheism. Soviet forces on the border, as seen by recon flights of chinese aircraft, are poorly trained, but incredibly well equipped (Armored car IIs, rifle IIs, smg IIs, mg IIs, inf guns, cav IIs).

The bear is awaken from his slumber.

RufusTFirefly -> RE: Another GD 1938 game (5/5/2012 10:47:26 AM)

The Kremlin is concerned about the tensions in Far East. It has been noticed with respect for both peace loving nations, Japan and China, that a cease fire was signed. Peace in Far East is the main interest of the Kremlin.

The Kremlin leadership clearly points out: Any kind of aggression towards China is not intended. But as guns are still smoking it was looked upon as a necessary duty to prepare the Far East commands for any aggression. A duty that should garantee that the Sibirian people will be save under the guidance of the communist leadership in the Kremlin. Trust is good, control is better.

Bombur -> RE: Another GD 1938 game (5/5/2012 9:16:42 PM)

-Germany: More surprises are coming. A Fascist coup in Bulgaria is followed by an alliance with USSR. Bulgaria is now being run by aa coalition of Fascists and Communists...meanwhile, Finland is also returned to USSR while Danzig is captured by Germany. -Italy: Our air forces are boosted by the development of an advanced biplane fighter able to fly at 440km/h. Hopefully, it will be able to fight the French MS.406īs in equal terms...or wonīt? -Japan: The first month of cease fire with China. Japanese forces in China assumed defensive positions while new resources are being diverted to economic development.

Kraftwerk -> RE: Another GD 1938 game (5/7/2012 4:30:46 PM)

USTA - Slow going building the railroad across the Peruvian and Bolivian mountains, and its sad news that there is a high fatality rate among workers. Its said for every mile of track, 3 men die.

Basic training schools spring up across the USTA as government funding spurs action. The world is at war, and soon the USTA will be a part of it. Chance to intervene now at 3%

China - The cease fire continues, and china completes its transition from a divisional structure to a corps structure. Research into new methods of war begin and two reserve army shells are formed.

Bombur -> RE: Another GD 1938 game (5/18/2012 1:22:50 AM)

Germany/Italy

Important news: German and Italian forces lauched a preemptive attack against British and French Forces, which were taking offensive positions lauch an agression war against Germany. The puppet regime in Hungary was targeted as well. The enemy lost more than 20000 men, while our own losses were about 4000. At least 70 enemy fighters were destroyed and even the Italian biplanes achieved a 3:1 kill rate against French level II fighters. Italian naval aircraft attempted a daring long range raid agains British warships in Gibraltar. Two destroyers and one cargoship were sunk, but 30 bombers were lost.

Japan

A definitive agreement to end the war between Japan and China is being prepared...however, the alliance between Fascism and communism is puzzling to both regimes