I played Bryan in rd 1 and started putting damage on stuff while his guys all missed mine (even Boba needs something like a 16 to hit when all the stuff is active) . Finished some stuff off and time was called. I ended up with a 2 pt victory as I couldn't kill enough stuff (Brad had determined before hand 350 would be the # we would try for a 3 pt victory)

Rd 2 I played against Tim and we both missed that when his Boba rolled a disintigration against my full health Teranterak that it should just take extra damage. Instead I removed it from play which allowed him to furious assault with Thon which did a ton of damage. I ended up killing Boba and putting a ton of damage on Thon as well as Revan but time was called and Tim got the 2 pt victory.

Rd 3 I was against Brad and he conceded early as I took out a couple of his pieces and had huge door control and position advantage.

_________________When I left you I was but the learner . . . now I am the master.

I lost in the last match of undefeated players against Tim B. Prime reason ranking system seems inconsistent. Lost in the last match of 2-0 players (both with 4 points) and finished 4th or 5th out of 7 players behind Jake who I beat in the 2nd game and who had a bye. Anyway, still had fun with some good players and with a format that was new to me.

Played and beat Brad's NR in the first game and a very close one killing his 115 pt. Luke and others and beat Jake's Vong in round 2 by a bit larger margin (killed him that he forgot the momentum bonus until the last round). Lost in the last game against Tim's O/R squad. Thought I might have him early in round 2 of that game when he assaulted with Boba BH killing a door opener of mine and doing a bit of damage to some others. I followed by having a distant IG-88 run to the door and having Maul Epic go 8 and Rage (MOTF 2) with GMDTwin and kill Fett in 1 move. However, is such a short game and with Bastila available he killed my twins for the rest of the game (only went 4 rounds) and was able to charge into the fray (Thon was money with his furious (charging?) assault on some grouped IG-86's). Amazing that a 33 point piece can shut down a 500 point squad for 3 of 4 rounds essentially! Still think that there is something not quite right about that. Oh yeah, I only had 2 CE's in my squad, Brad thought I had the maximum 3.

Reflections on the event: (1) Think 1 hour time limit is not enough, (2) 500 points is too many, unless said time limit is expanded...then if the time limit is lengthened and if the field is large enough, you will have a very long event for sure, (3) not sure what maps if any could be put on the restricted list, and (4) had fun and really enjoy playing with all the guys there. Lastly, think my squad could have been really money if I'd dropped the Series 2 Destroyer and put in a Lancer...and maybe put in San Hill.

It was a hard play having only melée. Careful positioning and then trying to remember all the damage one does on a hit... Like momentum, and charging +10 and the vong warriors with cunning 20, add in the shaper and priest and you have a lot of differnt enhancers to remember. The slayers actually performed well with the extra hp and def and the 20 base instead of 10 with jh. Shai went down fast. With all the boosts that ppl get shai gets hit easy even with embrace of pain.

_________________"But one thing I have learned in this process is that flavor can't override the good of the game."-urbanshmi2-

And yeah, I almost played Vong in my recent tourney...Charging Assault is superb for them, and they're a lot of fun to use. The OR would just eat them alive though.

How's that? ABM is useless against them. I played OR and I feared Vong. It's a LOT of meat to work through

That's true, there's a lot of beef. However, with accurate Furious Assault, there's also a LOT of damage going out to hit a lot of the vong pieces before they can even close the distance. Once you've got a decent number of the Vong pieces in LOS, you run Zuckuss in and sacrifice him to glue them to the floor for that round. Then Boba and Mira each do 60dmg (with ABM), that's 120dmg on whatever they can see, 80 if the vong make all their armor saves. That'll kill all the JHs and Ossus Guardians straight out. Czulkang and Tsavong are tough, but they won't last forever. It just seems to me like the melee restriction will continue to hinder them against a heavy-shooting squad...especially when the shooting squad can run 12 away and then shoot. And even when the vong do close in, Hoth's CE gives the OR an extra 10 dmg against adjacent enemies.

The map would make a difference, but it seems to me--at least from a distance--that the OR would have a strong advantage in that matchup (I'd guess 70/30). I haven't played the matchup, but those are my initial impressions anyway.

And by the way, this is assuming a build of Hoth/Bastilla, BobaBH, Mira, ZuckussBH, and then filler and CEs to boost (possibly Kavar, or Crusader/Malak/Revan, whatever suits). It's the squad I almost played in PA this weekend. In 500pts, the OR can really spam on Hoth's CE to produce some insane damage output.

Am I misreading or misunderstanding something in my analysis? It's still a new-ish format, so it's very possible that I still don't know how to read the meta for it.

_________________"Don't give the tool more credit than the master." --Weeks

And by the way, this is assuming a build of Hoth/Bastilla, BobaBH, Mira, ZuckussBH, and then filler and CEs to boost (possibly Kavar, or Crusader/Malak/Revan, whatever suits). It's the squad I almost played in PA this weekend. In 500pts, the OR can really spam on Hoth's CE to produce some insane damage output.

Nice idea with Hondo; I hadn't thought of that. Just keep sending in the cheap shooters to soften the uglies up, and then your high-cost pieces can clean up what's still moving afterward.

My version had Cay Qel-Droma (handy when so many of the damage-dealers in this format are high-cost uniques) and Kavar; I liked the idea of using 1 or 2 WEWs, since they have MR2, which synergizes well with Furious Assault and Hoth's +4/+10 bonus.

Jim's son had a better version, with a Crusader and Malak and Revan. That gave him less accurate shooters, but the Revan-swap allowed him to get his accurate shooters wherever he wanted them; he also had Jaq and Han Gambler. I heard someone speak of using Master Thon (Furious twin melee for 40 dmg hits is nasty), but that gives less shooting options.

Basically, there are a number of different options for the OR in the epic format...and IMHO, it seems like most of them could take the Vong pretty easily. Again, I could just be missing something here. I've never been great at reading the meta.

_________________"Don't give the tool more credit than the master." --Weeks

The Vong vs. OR matchup depends a lot on the map. If the Vong player brought Asteroid Base and wins map roll, it's VERY tough to get good enough lines of sight to hit more than a couple of the Jedi Hunters/Ossus Guardians at once, and they will still be able to close fairly easily (usually running in to do big attacks in round 2). Add that to the fact that the Yammosk steals any stat boosting CE (usually Kavar) to even it out and that most of the shooters the OR squad plays are Bounty Hunters with tough odds to hit non-uniques in cover (usually a 50% chance or worse) and the Vong player can win pretty handily.

On the other hand, if the match is played on Rancor Pit or Throne Room or something like that where the OR can stay far back and still hit almost everybody with Furious Assaults, then it's tough for the Vong to advance without dying.

_________________"An elegant, easy-to-understand concept or mechanic that accomplishes 95% of what you want is much better than a clunky, obtuse mechanic that gets you 100%" - Rob Daviau

Nice idea with Hondo; I hadn't thought of that. Just keep sending in the cheap shooters to soften the uglies up, and then your high-cost pieces can clean up what's still moving afterward.

My version had Cay Qel-Droma (handy when so many of the damage-dealers in this format are high-cost uniques) and Kavar; I liked the idea of using 1 or 2 WEWs, since they have MR2, which synergizes well with Furious Assault and Hoth's +4/+10 bonus.

Jim's son had a better version, with a Crusader and Malak and Revan. That gave him less accurate shooters, but the Revan-swap allowed him to get his accurate shooters wherever he wanted them; he also had Jaq and Han Gambler. I heard someone speak of using Master Thon (Furious twin melee for 40 dmg hits is nasty), but that gives less shooting options.

Basically, there are a number of different options for the OR in the epic format...and IMHO, it seems like most of them could take the Vong pretty easily. Again, I could just be missing something here. I've never been great at reading the meta.

I actually played against an OR squad this past weekend that had a Crusader and Revan. I was playing a NR squad and lost to it, but it was quite close. Revan is pretty awesome in Epic OR squads, since like you said you can get the Accurate shooters anywhere you want, plus he can drop Lord Hoth in there and take out something big. At one point my opponent dropped his Lord Hoth next to my Epic Mara and would have killed her if I had failed my Lightsaber Block save (Boba was dead, so Hoth got Impulsive Jedi Hunter and Bastila was meditating, so he was doing 40 damage swings at +25 4 times).

_________________"An elegant, easy-to-understand concept or mechanic that accomplishes 95% of what you want is much better than a clunky, obtuse mechanic that gets you 100%" - Rob Daviau

My yammosk didn't get to steal a ce due to the matchups I had and nothing for me to use. Such as reven, or grievous d.a.c. or exar kun and his ce for savage figs. My initial thought and still thinking now that o.r. is the faction to beat in this format. I am getting a kick out of you guys talking as if my vong squad is the vong meta and top as far as vong goes. I wasn't sure I could even go to the tourney till last minute and had to make a squad in about 5-10 min. And I thought vong would be the easiest to do that with. Well that's what I came up with. With more time there are a lot of ideas with every other epic except vader with this format. I think vader is the worst and will never be played as the 3 ce limit is hurting him way to much.

_________________"But one thing I have learned in this process is that flavor can't override the good of the game."-urbanshmi2-

My yammosk didn't get to steal a ce due to the matchups I had and nothing for me to use. Such as reven, or grievous d.a.c. or exar kun and his ce for savage figs. My initial thought and still thinking now that o.r. is the faction to beat in this format. I am getting a kick out of you guys talking as if my vong squad is the vong meta and top as far as vong goes. I wasn't sure I could even go to the tourney till last minute and had to make a squad in about 5-10 min. And I thought vong would be the easiest to do that with. Well that's what I came up with. With more time there are a lot of ideas with every other epic except vader with this format. I think vader is the worst and will never be played as the 3 ce limit is hurting him way to much.

Okay, that makes sense: there was never a CE that would be useful for you to steal. Bummer about that. But still, the booming voice effect for SAs and CEs is pretty awesome, so it's not like you wasted the 15pts on the Yammosk.

I think Daniel has a point: Vong can be powerful, but winning the maproll is a huge deal for their harder matchups. But I don't think they're at the top; a good spoiler squad maybe (they would wreck a number of Republic or NR builds, I think), but not the top.

_________________"Don't give the tool more credit than the master." --Weeks

And by the way, this is assuming a build of Hoth/Bastilla, BobaBH, Mira, ZuckussBH, and then filler and CEs to boost (possibly Kavar, or Crusader/Malak/Revan, whatever suits). It's the squad I almost played in PA this weekend. In 500pts, the OR can really spam on Hoth's CE to produce some insane damage output.

Better be ready to use Bastila round 1 against a pawned Lancer. He would cut down 1/2 your squad on a good sweep and significantly damage many others as well...the trade for a lost Lancer would be more than worth it.

Revan was worth his weight in gold, both for the swap and MT. Wouldn't swap him out for anything.

Thon was the surprising next up VIP (after Revan and Hoth). 90 damage from 12 away to any adjacent fig is sick. I took out 3 nasties in one charge in my last game. AND he toted around my Czerka, giving her beefy stamina, letting her get in place for Boba and Zuckuss to get JOLT in on the assaults, and then I set up the Monster 240 hp slam from old school atton with Twin. Oh - he also makes Boba force sensitive, important reroll or extra 2 squares when needed.

Boba was almost always the first to die. But as long as he got a decent charging assault, he is worth his money. Everyone would over-extend to kill Boba, and then the counter-attack to that was brutal. And then it boosts Hoth into a Jedi Hunter BEAST now that Boba is force sensitive.

The squad had even more synergy then I first realized. Having Revan swap to get Boba or Zuckuss into position and Thon to get the Czerka in position meant deep strikes with snire rifle and Jolt. Sickness.

I agree that you might not want to wait for ABM, but most people are used to using it in round 2. If by chance they waited it might be a bit dicey, especially if the other squad had San to keep their forward progress at bay or risk a plethora of Opportunist shots with a droid army. If they wait until round 2 their still would have to cautious for the same opportunist reason. If I were playing Seps. I would quickly activate my 1 mini every round to put the onus on the opposing player to play quickly and get more rounds in, if time drug on it would be because of their lack of motivation to advance the game and lose ABM in later rounds.

a lancer is pretty much a crap shoot in this format so yeah you might kill a OR charge squad but get killed by the other stuff. If you go with Pawn lancer than thats two CE's your giving up. So your left with playing san or one other CE.

Vong counterNR counter 80% of the timeOR can have a counter but a good match upRep counter most the times if they run yoda then there is a shot they dont. Seps have a counter and odds are they will have two counters in the squad.Imps counter if they use the fringe Epic and run another vader.Mandos do they have a good counter?Rebels an ok match upSith bane can one shot the lancer enough said.

so yeah like I said its a crap shoot if you want to play the pawn lancer.

Pawn lancer is very limited in this format because of all the anti lancer characters running around,A lot of HPs to eat, Limited CE's.

I am saying it might be worth it to integrate it into your squad as something for the opponent to have to consider...it alters strategy for sure. I went 2-1 losing in the final game against Tim with Seps. I had the series 2 destroyer droid that was mostly useless for all my games and think I might have been better served switching him out for a Lancer. I actually had only 2 CE's in the game (BDO's is not) and could have worked in San if necessary. The Lancer would not have been pawned (unless I dropped the assassin droid HK-47) and put in Sidious but would have been around to quickly get the activations in my favor or been the what and when the opponent has to consider.

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