The business plan of many a failed tourist railway and museum. The Orange Cannonball folks (all half dozen or so operators that have given it a shot) thought the same exact thing...

Quote:

P. T. Barnum said it right "There's a sucker born every minute."

And you'd have to be one think you can make money hauling tourists on a branch line at 10 mph with a 2-10-4. Ever notice there's not a lot of 4-8-4's in excursion service, and the ones that are do mainline runs? Have you forgotten how T&P 2-10-4 #610 was restored to operation, and then languished in the shops of an active tourist railroad since it was too big and expensive to operate? There's a most places run small to medium sized engines.

Bobharbison

Post subject: Re: B&LE 643 in the news

Posted: Fri Feb 03, 2017 2:28 pm

Joined: Fri Dec 03, 2004 9:42 pmPosts: 2591

Steel City wrote:

Alexander D. Mitchell IV wrote:

I'm curious.

How does he propose to get this alleged track in Ohio back into condition for operation of a 2-10-4? Whose money? What ownership?

Well Glenn is thinking he'll use Mr. Rowland's since he willing to place a bet on the 643's disposition. Glenn said that $10,000.00 will go a long ways. :) along with the 30K he got when he sold the 80 ton locomotive last year.

$10K might pay for the cranes to load and unload it. If you're -really- lucky, it might cover the cranes and trucking costs. Assuming they all give you a great deal or do some of the work for free.

But once you get it there, you're going to be out of money.

rem1028

Post subject: Re: B&LE 643 in the news

Posted: Fri Feb 03, 2017 3:10 pm

Joined: Tue Jan 24, 2017 10:32 amPosts: 83

It's easy...don't you all know? They're going to win the Powerball! Glenn and Len (nice ring to it, huh?) have a "system"! :) Then Len will buy the Colebrookdale, un-ban himself and have the last laugh there, and still have enough left to raise the Pennsy switcher from the quarry, and the Maine Central 2-6-6-2, and run them all on this new tourist line!

Bobharbison

Post subject: Re: B&LE 643 in the news

Posted: Fri Feb 03, 2017 5:57 pm

Joined: Fri Dec 03, 2004 9:42 pmPosts: 2591

Meanwhile, I have a positive ID on one of those photos.

Adena Tunnel on the Wheeling & Lake Erie RailwayThe 800 feet Adena Tunnel is located northwest of Adena, Ohio and was completed by the Wheeling & Lake Erie Railway (W&LE) in 1889.

Not too far out of Wheeling, and it looks like a pretty location. The line is curvy, but not too bad, and, at least from what I can see on Google maps, is rather scenic. It looks like it has some potential...

There's even a wye at both ends of, what looks like from Google Earth, to be the abandoned section, (edit - it looks as if part of it is still in service) though the wye on the river end is in use.

Now, I'm not sure about running a 2-10-4 on it, but it looks like you could have lots of fun with a small Mikado on the line. (After some serious bucks on track repair).

Oh, and the tunnel that's partially collapsed? You could skip that one, just go from wye to wye and still have a nice run.

It appears a portion of the track is still in service, and obviously there are many, many un-answered questions. But it looks like it could conceivably have potential.

Bobharbison

Post subject: Re: B&LE 643 in the news

Posted: Fri Feb 03, 2017 10:10 pm

Joined: Fri Dec 03, 2004 9:42 pmPosts: 2591

Steel City wrote:

Well the line was big enough for this beast.

Two things to consider.

1) That's an articulated locomotive, so while it has more drive wheels, the rigid wheelbase is not as long as a 2-10-4. You only have 3 rigid axles rather than 5. That's the whole reason they were designed, to have more drivers without an excessive rigid length. From a rail/wheel dynamics point of view, that's more like a 2-6-2.

2) In the steam era, it was standard practice to increase gauge in curves to allow for longer rigid wheelbases. Many railroads no longer do that in the modern era. So the curves are probably tighter than they were in the steam era.

EDM

Post subject: Re: B&LE 643 in the news

Posted: Sat Feb 04, 2017 12:37 am

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 9:54 amPosts: 855Location: NJ

Maybe that line will be a good place for the 4-4-4-4 T1 to romp.

Bobharbison

Post subject: Re: B&LE 643 in the news

Posted: Sat Feb 04, 2017 2:14 pm

Joined: Fri Dec 03, 2004 9:42 pmPosts: 2591

I have absolutely no info on this proposed plan. Based purely on the photos posted, and a quick look at Google aerial photos, it -appears- to me, based on very sketchy info, that he's actually looking at the line from Rayland to Adena, or possibly beyond.

That is connected to the line SC mentioned, and I could be totally wrong. At a glance, it looks like has potential.

co614

Post subject: Re: B&LE 643 in the news

Posted: Sat Feb 04, 2017 4:27 pm

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 5:19 pmPosts: 1773Location: Pottstown,Pa.

Guys, please...... this is all a total waste of bandwidth and energy. I've met with Mr. Campbell and tried to reason with him. Trust me, this poor orphan of an engine is where it will be until its time comes to start its journey to the melting furnace in pieces.

All this nonsense about out of service branches etc. is just that...nonsense.

Meanwhile, I have a positive ID on one of those photos. Adena Tunnel on the Wheeling & Lake Erie RailwayThe 800 feet Adena Tunnel is located northwest of Adena, Ohio and was completed by the Wheeling & Lake Erie Railway (W&LE) in 1889.

On July 1, 1999, the W&LE filed a notice to abandon 18 miles of its Valley Line, from milepost 188½ near Unionvale to milepost 205½ near Warrenton.4 The proposal included the stations of East Cadiz (milepost 185), Kenwood (milepost 189), Adena (milepost 192), Dillonvale (milepost 199.9) and Warrenton (milepost 204) – along with the tunnel. The request was subsequently approved and the line was placed out of service.

Wheeling & Lake Erie Railway Company (W&LE) a Class II rail carrier, has filed a verified notice of exemption under 49 CFR 1150.31 to operate approximately 14.6 miles of trackage in Harrison and Jefferson Counties, Ohio consisting of two segments: (a) Between milepost 188.5 and milepost 189.1 near Unionvale and (b) between milepost 191.5 near Adena and milepost 205.54 near Warrenton. Both segments are part of a previously abandoned rail line known as the Valley Line.

In 1999, W&LE received exemption authority to abandon the Valley Line. W&LE consummated its abandonment in 2003 but did not pursue salvage, and W&LE indicates that the trackage on the two segments for which an exemption is sought here has remained in place.

With the current transaction, W&LE seeks to resume its common carrier status on the two segments of the Valley Line.

Additional bureaucratese to be perused at the above link.

Further point:

There has been, in this thread so far, a fundamental disconnect between the photos supplied and the stated alleged locations of the line(s) supposedly being reviewed for this proposed operation. The short through truss bridge pictured in a snowy scene is the biggest anomaly so far, along with the latest "current" photos obviously having been taken in the spring.

The question at this point is who is in fact doing the misidentification, and how/why.

One other thing:I've known and worked with plenty of private locomotive owners, both individuals and groups.If the alleged statement is actually a true quote:

Quote:

"I feels that Ross might be a bit jealous of Me, because I own the largest ridged frame two cylinder steam locomotive and the only Bessemer "Texas" 2-10-4 in the world.”

.....and said statement was not made in jest, then it reflects both manifest immaturity and outright ignorance of steam locomotives.For the record, there are six other 2-10-4 steam locomotives in existence--one Texas & Pacific example, which worked Rowland's American Freedom Train in Texas in 1976, and five AT&SF examples, scattered from Green Bay to St. Louis to Texas to New Mexico to California.

"I feels" that Shaner's loyalty to Mr. Campbell is probably due to the fact that he is one of the few who still allow Len to "play trains" and has not made him persona non grata as Steamtown (project 565), the Colebrookdale, RRMofPA, and Allentown and Auburn have. The "manifest immaturity and misinformation and misidentifications" as well as countless aliases and antagonization are also trademark Shaner and part of the reasons he was removed from these forums in the past.

"I feels" that Shaner's loyalty to Mr. Campbell is probably due to the fact that he is one of the few who still allow Len to "play trains" and has not made him persona non grata as Steamtown (project 565), the Colebrookdale, RRMofPA, and Allentown and Auburn have. The "manifest immaturity and misinformation and misidentifications" as well as countless aliases and antagonization are also trademark Shaner and part of the reasons he was removed from these forums in the past.

Agreed. And imagine Len's ego if the 643 actually does get moved. That would be like James Riffin buying a real railroad!

I wonder if Len and Mr. Rowland had interactions which made Len angry. Actually, while typing this, I remember that Len had a facebook page pretending to be Mr. Rowland, and that didn't go too well.

Maybe this is all just Len's way to celebrate the kiwi farms site being shut down....

_________________----------Jim Evans

rem1028

Post subject: Re: B&LE 643 in the news

Posted: Sun Feb 05, 2017 3:00 pm

Joined: Tue Jan 24, 2017 10:32 amPosts: 83

Good point sir!

cood101

Post subject: Re: B&LE 643 in the news

Posted: Mon Feb 06, 2017 11:58 am

Joined: Tue Jul 05, 2011 1:18 amPosts: 194

>Mr. Rowland is a "waist" of bandwith>Said "waist" has had a 50 year track record of multiple successes>Locomotive in question has barely ever moved since the end of steam

Steel City, your case for the 643 will continue to look horrible in my eyes for as long as you continue to attack others for pointing out perceived shortcomings, I don't know who you are, but you present a picture of someone whose ego carries a burden on themselves.

It's my opinion that it was a waste to restore 643 in the 80s with nowhere to run it nor display it. It's also my opinion, as stated earlier, that small steps could go a long way for your plans. Cover the locomotive under a roof, keep it lubricated, and keep plans under wraps. The most important thing to do if you wish to get this ball rolling? Don't attack others as enemies of your plans, and don't use hearsay to discredit them.

Hopefully you can do something useful with the locomotive. Perhaps Mr. Rowland is correct. We will see.

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