They are sealed in Rev 7: 3-4, and seem to be a part of the heavenly multitude in the same chapter. By Rev 7:14, the great tribulation is announced as finished.

They are also seen in Rev 14:1, where they follow the Lamb wherever he goes, who happens to be in heaven at that time.

–

Sometimes I think REV 7 is a review of REV 6, in which the 144k are sealed before the great tribulation (seals 1-6) happens, so they can witness successfully without harm.

REV 7 indicates at the end there is a multitude of saints who have gone through the tribulation, and are in heaven.

This includes most of spiritual Israel, all who have been saved, so far, and the 144,000.

–

I think the 144k are the first fruits of those Jews who accept Yeshua before the 6th seal.

This group gets taken up before or at the 7th seal.

–

** Jesus , Yeshua, states in Matthew 24; 29-30 that his followers will see him again at the 6th seal:

–

Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: (this is the 6th

seal description)

And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

–

Since the feast of first fruits occurs at Pentecost, I assume this is the time of the rapture of this group.

This is in the spring of the year, around May- June.

–

–

2 servants

They show up in Rev 11:3, and it is stated by then there is a temple, because the worshippers, the religious Jews, but not saved yet, are there in verse 1.

The witnesses preach for 42 months.

The 2 servants seem to come to the unbelieving, yet religious Israel who still worship at the temple which has been now built, trying to get the last remnant into the fold.

This group gets taken up before or at the 7th trumpet after the earthquake in Jerusalem. Rev 11:13

Once it states “the kingdoms of this world have become the kingdoms of our God”… we then see the 24 elders and the temple in heaven.

Everything is over for the believers who are now ALL in heaven.

–

The woman and the 2 groups

I always wondered why, in REV 12, the woman was mentioned twice.

I think it refers to the 2 groups of saved Jews (along with Christians) who will be taken up.

One group goes with the 144k and the other group goes with the 2 servants.

The book of Revelation is hard to understand…even the beast is not mentioned until REV 13, and we know he has to be around before then.

However, a hint is given in Rev 12 where there is a war in heaven, and the dragon is cast to the earth

The woman represents spiritual Israel, but she is collected in 2 groups.

This is why her wilderness experience is described 2 times, because this happens twice.

Once with the main group of believers, and again with the remnant who get saved under the 2 witnesses.

–

–

Timing options

a. 2 groups are taken in 2 different locations but at the same time

There is the world itself, and then there is the situation in Israel.

They could be happening at the same time, but described separately.

Rev 13: 7 sounds like the 5th seal:

And it was given unto him [dragon] to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.

Rev 6:9 – 5th seal

And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:

b. 2 groups are taken at different times

The first group experiences tribulation (seals 1-6), but the second group has to deal with the dragon himself for 42 months as the witnesses preach repentance and the gospel.

To support this view, the witnesses would be preaching to those in the temple, and after they (witnesses) rise from the dead.

It is indicated we are already as far as the second woe, and the 7th

trumpet sounds.

Rev 11: 12-15

And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them.

And the same hour was there a great earthquake, and the tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand: and the remnant were affrighted, and gave glory to the God of heaven.

The second woe is past; [and], behold, the third woe cometh quickly.

And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become [the kingdoms] of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.

Option B seems most likely to me.

Here, however, it does not say that the remnant goes up with the witnesses.

This could happen, or they could be taken up shortly after, or it may be that the remnant is so small that they are gone, and no one notices, because all eyes are on the witnesses.

Anyhow, the 42 months are up.

–

–

Thought

If options a is correct after all, then this means all believers will hear the 2 witnesses from Jerusalem, and all will flee to their own wilderness for 42 months.

All will be attacked by the dragon.

It also means that all believers would be around until the 7th trumpet, instead of being taken earlier.

If this is true, then the 7 seals and the 7 trumpets might be defining the same time period.

Share this:

Like this:

LikeLoading...

805 Responses to “144,000 and the 2 Servants”

Well, I am still not convinced that the two groups of 144,000 are the same.
Will they be witnesses? I don’t see that either. It may be but it is not clearly mentioned, or?
The seven trumpets will occur at the time of the seventh seal, so they cannot mark the same time period.
The two wilderness experiences of the woman may be the same. Two different experiences with the same length of time? That would be rather unusual.

Gyod said: “Well, I am still not convinced that the two groups of 144,000 are the same. Will they be witnesses? I don’t see that either. It may be but it is not clearly mentioned, or? The seven trumpets will occur at the time of the seventh seal, so they cannot mark the same time period. The two wilderness experiences of the woman may be the same; two different experiences with the same length of time? That would be rather unusual.

My Response:

Dear Gyod:

I briefly read the article (“144,000 and the 2 Servants”) while getting ready to go to bed, and I really wasn’t going to respond to any blogs; but, as a Bible teacher for many years now, the Lord leads me to respond from time to time, so here goes. First, many people try to interpret the Bible in many and varied ways; and in most cases, they end up confused and erred in both their assumptions and results; they try to look at the Bible through the eyes of western civilization; error #1; the Bible was written in the middle-east; for Jews, by Jews, about Jews (except for Luke); so bear with me if you would, this should all pan out nicely:

A. The whole of the Bible can really be started in John 3:1-7; Jesus said (fully condensed); “unless you are ‘BORN AGAIN,’ you can neither “see” nor “enter” the kingdom of God. That one statement could solve so many errors people make; here’s why. To save a lot of explanation, time, and writing, the word “see” in this passage, in the original Scriptural Greek, refers to being able to “understand the Scriptures of God (aka: the Bible).” The word “enter” refers to exactly that, being able to “enter into” Heaven (God’s House; Heaven). So what Jesus has told Nicodemus is simply this; “If a person is not ‘BORN AGAIN,’ they can neither “understand” the Scriptures of God (the Bible); nor “enter into Heaven;” which is truly the whole of the Gospels; because we know that “works” cannot save any person, “lest they boast;” but, your “works” will follow you whether you go to Heaven or Hell; in Heaven (as a Born Again/Saved person) they will be “your witness” when you appear before Christ to give an account of yourself at the “Bema Seat” of Christ; there they will speak on your behalf, and will end up as either “rewards, treasures stored up in Heaven” for you; or, as “rewards lost.” They are all based on “what you did” (after you were ‘BORN AGAIN’) on behalf of the work to promote the Kingdom of God; the “good works” you did to receive “accolades for yourself” from your fellow man, thinking it was for God, will be burned up like stubble, and you will suffer loss. Jesus taught, when you do something good in the sight of men, in order to receive the praise of men, you have received your “full reward” (thus, its stubble, useless); by contrast, the things you did for God, that remained un-noticed by men, and you gave God the Glory in your heart, will be as precious gold, and will endure with you for eternity. So the key to understanding the whole of the Bible, is to become BORN AGAIN, because when you are BORN AGAIN, the (Holy) “Spirit” (who is God), comes to dwell inside of you, and you are henceforth, taught by God (which is exactly what the Bible says happens); that is exactly what happened to the 11 apostles and the other 109 people in the upper room at Pentecost. Remember in John 3:1-7, Jesus likened the (Holy) “Spirit” to a (Mighty Gust) of Wind; now, go read in Acts, when the same (Holy) “Spirit” descended upon them; again, like a (Mighty Gust) of Wind; and they were transformed that instant, from scared men and women hiding behind closed doors, to mighty preachers of the Good News (the Gospel); and not even the Mighty Romans, nor the religious (Nicolaitian-type) Sanhedrin were able to intimidate them from that point on.

So the key to the Bible is becoming BORN AGAIN, FROM ABOVE; from God, the Bible says; and unlike some religions that teach that you are “born again” with (actual H2O) water baptism, that is both totally unbiblical, and also untrue; baptism by (actual) water is merely a sign before “other” BORN AGAIN Christians (or the unbelieving world), that you have made a “personal choice” to accept Jesus Christ as both your LORD and Savior; while the “water baptism” being referred to in the Bible, is a person being “Washed (baptized) by the Water of the (Holy) Spirit”… the Bible says that the “Holy Spirit dictated the entire of Scripture into the minds of the holy men of God;” so, you must first be “Washed by the Word,” or, by the Scriptures of God, which is ALL ABOUT JESUS (the First Coming [in the OT], and the Second Coming [in the NT]); then you are able to conceive and understand the Truth of God. Jesus said, “I AM THE LIVING WATER”… He also said I AM THE WATER THAT GIVES ETERNAL LIFE.” The water Jesus is referring to is not actual H2O (remember “The woman at the well story?” She thought Jesus meant actual water, Jesus clarified that to her; Jesus made her understand that “THAT LIFE GIVING WATER HE WAS OFFERING,” was God’s Holy Word (THE WATER; THE WORDS OF GOD’S TRUTH; THE WORDS OF ETERNAL LIFE).

You can also know this by reading about the “Thief on the Cross.” Jesus forgave him; but, did Jesus also say, “I’m sure sorry though buddy, your being nailed to that cross right now won’t allow you to get down and go get “water baptized” by a Jewish priest, so I’m really sorry, I really did want to Save you though”… no, in the Book of the Revelation, Jesus is called the WORD OF GOD … so, when the thief finally “believed that Jesus was who they said He was (the Messiah; the Savior), he made a “personal choice” to repent from his sins in his heart, and also of making fun of Jesus on the Cross (that he had done just moments before). He also “chose to place” his full trust in Jesus right there and then, as his LORD and Savior. Then, Jesus being God on the Cross, saw into his “repented heart and mind,” and the thief was “Spiritually” washed clean of his sins; and Jesus was able to (then) publically pronounce him (the thief) “forgiven (by God), clean, righteous, and Heaven-bound for eternity.

By contrast, the other thief remained un-repented, and died in his sins, thus, he went straight to Hades, and will remain there until the Great White Throne judgment of Revelation 20:11-15; then “the un-repented other thief” will (along with all the billions that have died in their sins from Adam to the GWTJ) will appear before KING and JUDGE JESUS, to be judged and thrown into Hell (not Hades), for eternity; there too, notice in the verses, that “books were opened”… those are the books of “their earthly works”… but those works won’t Save them, they will only be a witness for, or against them; and their eternal torment in Hell for eternity will be predicated on what is written in those books of works. I tell people that BORN AGAIN is their Key to Salvation, without it you can’t ever understand the Bible correctly (Jesus said that); and, you will never enter Heaven when you die. There aren’t many ways, or even other ways, there is only ONE WAY, and JESUS is THAT WAY; it’s His House, His Rules, we can take it or leave it; so, when a false religion member, a cultist, a pagan, or an atheist tells you that they can get to Heaven their own way; or, they say “my way is as good as yours,” you tell them, WRONG; there is only ONE TRUE HEAVEN OF GOD, and if you don’t come in by Jesus, you aren’t getting in, period; so yes, MY WAY IS BETTER THAN THEIR WAY, and no THEIR WAY IS NOT JUST AS GOOD AS MY WAY … because my way is JESUS, their way is the way of CAIN, and that only leads one to Hell. So, if you aren’t BORN AGAIN at this moment, God says that you still are of your father, the Devil, and that you remain your sins; thus, you are also Hell-bound until you choose otherwise. There is no “second chance” after death either. That is a Doctrine of Demons; even Satan knows that; that is why he started that Doctrine and spread it worldwide to begin with; the Bible says, “It is appointed “once” to die, “then” the judgment (or, “then” your destination, be it to Heaven of Hell, is sealed for good).

B. The 144,000 are ALL and ONLY JEWS, 12,000 from the Twelve Tribes of ISREAL; not one Gentile in the group. Also, there is no such thing (Biblically) as “Spiritual Israel”… only “Literal Israel;” the term “Spiritual Israel” is a Gnostic heresy from the late first and early second centuries; it was heresy then, it is heresy (still) today. The “chosen people” covenant was made between God and Abraham in Genesis; it was for a “God-chosen people” (not a man-chosen people); and the “chosen people” were the Hebrew nation; the apple of God’s eye. All other interpretations are “False Revisionist History and Theology”… used to try to “usurp” the “Millennial Kingdom” promised to the Jews, so it can be (man-given) to the Gentiles; NOT A CHANCE. We as Gentiles will be “partakers” of the “Millennial Kingdom” (for 1,000 years); then, the GWTJ (Great White Throne Judgment) will occur; after the GWTJ, the heavens (the first and second heavens; our atmosphere being H1, and the Cosmos being H2) and the entire Earth will be burned up, and completely remade NEW; “fully cleansed;” remade to become the One Godly (Eternal) Earthly Kingdom. Then, “The New Jerusalem, the City of God” will come down, out of Heaven (the third Heaven, that being H3; God’s House); henceforth, the Jews will see an end of their reign as the “premier nation on Earth” for the 1,000 years; then both the Saved Jews and the Saved Gentiles will become the One Family of God; and, in that NEW EARTH, God the Father Himself, and The Lamb (God the Son), will be our God (in person, forever), and we will finally see God the Father’s real face; and we will be His children forever.

By contrast, during the “Millennial Kingdom,” the Saved (and Raptured) Bride church saints, along with the Saved (Tribulation period “beheaded”) saints; and, the OT saints (all in immortal bodies at that time), will rule with Christ for those 1,000 years, over the “mortals” that make it through the Tribulation period and the wicked reign of the Biblically prophesied Antichrist (who was chosen in 1983), and is here “in power” already today; and is scheduled to be moved from his present major world leader position, to his “enthroned” position as a world king, on his CFR [Emblem] “White Horse”- as the “The Sovereign One-World Leader of the UN-New World Order. It will be his (final and) New World Order position as the (soon coming) 9th UN-Secretary General. He was “pre-revealed” (to the world) in that position (like in Revelation 6:2), on the Illuminati unholy date of Sept. 9, 2009 (or, 9-9-9); now, simply turn it upside down; it’s no big secret if you know the “Luciferian” people and lineage behind the New World Order Satanic-Babylonian-Nimrodian throne; also, his actual CFR (Council on Foreign Relations) Code name is Nimrod; and his current political Code name is Renegade, which means “The lawless one”… “The Rebel”… and “his coming IS in the way of the works of Satan,” just like the Bible says; so isn’t that the very person that the Bible said to be waiting for? That is how close THE END is. The “Luciferian” people behind his throne say that by the end of 2012, or by mid-2013, they will be ready to “reveal him to the world” as “that final world leader” (that is the actual timing when the Biblical “First Seal” will be broken). Those that make it through the entire Tribulation period and the reign of the Antichrist, but still end up “unbelieving, unrepentant, and with the Mark of the Beast” when Jesus comes, will be killed by Jesus, and cast into Hades until the GWTJ, 1,000 years later (they are the “Goats” on King Jesus’ “left hand”); but, those that do end up repenting before Jesus comes again; and were able to (also) elude the guillotines of Antichrist and his UN-NWO-FEMA forces, and (also) don’t accept the Mark of the Beast, will be allowed to enter into the “Millennial Kingdom” and repopulate the Earth (as Mortals with extended life spans the Bible says); they are the “Sheep” on Jesus’ “right hand”); this will complete “The judging of the Nations at the Second Coming;” and the Immortals will then commence to Rule over the Mortals for 1,000 years (with Christ); 1,000 years later the GWTJ occurs; then, the Earth is set completely ablaze by Jesus to be melted like hot wax; and He will remake new heavens (H1 and H2) and a new Earth (from the old Earth); and everyone thereafter will be immortal, sinless, and with God forever and ever; it is “then” that Jesus turns over the entire Kingdom to God the Father, and “that” (eternal) Kingdom, will never end.

C. Gyod said: “The seven trumpets will occur at the time of the seventh seal, so they cannot mark the same time period.

My Response is: You are correct, the 7 SEALS are different from the 7 Trumpets; the 7 SEALS cover the entire 7 years of the prophesied Tribulation Period; Seals 1 through 4 covers the first 3-1/2 years (or, what’s called the tribulation period). Seals 5 through 7 covers the last 3-1/2 years (or, what’s called the Great Tribulation). The breaking of the 7th of the 7 SEALS brings forth 7 Angels, each with a separate Trumpet and Judgment (or, 7 Angelic Trumpet Judgments from God). The first 6 are unleashed in the 7th year, and run is rapid quick succession. After the 6th Trumpet is sounded and that judgment is carried out; there is an interlude; and all is quiet in Heaven for about half an hour. Finally, the 7th Trumpet is sounded.

D. The “Woman in the Wilderness” in the Book of Revelation is not Mary; it never was; it is the nation Israel. It is a Woman described as having 12 stars about her, and the Moon under her feet. This passage in the Book of Revelation coincides directly with the “Dreams of Joseph” (Israel’s/Jacob’s son) in the Book of Genesis (Gen. 37:9 – “And he (Joseph) dreamed yet another dream, and he told it to his brethren, and he said, Behold, I have dreamed another dream; and, behold, “the sun” and “the moon” and the “eleven stars” bowed down to me.”) I fully realize that Roman Catholicism has always tried to portray this as “Our Lady of Guadalupe” with the Sun Rays behind her, the Moon under her feet, and the 12 stars around her; nothing could be further from the Truth of God; the Woman with the 12 stars in Revelation in the Wilderness, are made up of the 11 stars Joseph saw in his dream, plus Joseph himself = 12. This is also a dream of prophesy, concerning the future (from Joseph) Messiah, Jesus; to whom ALL CREATION, including the Sun and Moon, and the 12 Tribes coming from the Abrahamic Covenant (from where the Gentile Saved derive their Salvation roots in Jesus) will one day ALL bow down and worship the True Messiah, Jesus. The “Wilderness” being spoken of has to do with where God has promised to protect the remnant of Israel during the last 3-1/2 years of the rule of the Antichrist; when Satan will be defeated in the Cosmos by Michael and his Angels, and Satan and his Angels are thrown down to the Earth. This occurs just before the mid-point, between the tribulation and the Great Tribulation. At that time, per the Bible, the UN-Antichrist (human) personage is assassinated, and he actually truly dies; then, Satan is allowed by God to (satanically) resurrect that 9th UN-Secretary General’s body, and possess it (both physically and spiritually) for the final 3-1/2 years (42 months) of the Great Tribulation. It is then that Satan (after being soundly defeated by Michael and his Angels) decides to go after “The Woman” Israel, to kill off “God’s chosen people” once and for all. But God tells the remnant of Israel to “flee into the wilderness, into the mountains.” This is verified in several other parts of the Old Testament, they flee to the “Wilderness in Petra, in Jordan; away from the Antichrist’s New World Order World Forces” that have come to deal a final blow to the Jewish nation; just as the Antichrist is about to assault Jerusalem, Jesus, His Bride (Raptured church saints); the Tribulation saints; the Old Testament saints, and all God’s Holy Angels suddenly break through the clouds, and Jesus goes forth to destroy the United Nations Antichrist, the Vatican’s False Prophet, and all the New World Order Forces assembled from the Valley of Jezreel in northern Israel, down to the Gaza Strip, where there will be UN-NWO Forces located between the Mediterranean and Dead seas. Also, God chose “Petra,” because it means “Great Rock” … it is thus a sign to the remnant Jews, they know that their Messiah will be called “The Rock of Israel,” both Moses and the Psalms prophesied this. Petra means “Rock”… no, Peter the apostle was not the “Rock;” the LORD Jesus is the only “Rock” of Ages, the “Rock” of my Salvation; the “Rock” of Israel. See below:

Deuteronomy 32:4 – “He (the future Messiah from the time of Moses, Jesus the Christ) is “the Rock,” His work is perfect: for all His ways are Judgment: a God of Truth and without iniquity (without Sin), just and right (Holy) is He.

Psalm 18:2 – “The LORD is my “Rock,” and my fortress, and my deliverer; my God, my strength, in whom I will trust; my buckler, and the horn (the KING) of my Salvation, and my high tower.

So, the 144,000 are again, ALL JEWS. The 2 Witnesses will be Moses (for the Law), and Elijah (for the Prophets). That was already shown to everyone at the Transfiguration of Christ on Mt. Tabor. That was also a prophetic vision that Peter, James, and John witnessed. People always say, “It will be Elijah and Enoch, because neither of them ever died;” FALSE, they both died; people really need to read the Bible closely. Jesus clearly tells us in the Gospel of John, chapter 3, that “NO ONE has gone UP INTO Heaven except He (Jesus), that came down from Heaven.” What then does that do for the story of Elijah and Enoch? Jesus also said, “Flesh and blood (sinful human flesh and blood); cannot exist in Heaven.” Did Elijah and Enoch have sinful human flesh and blood? Absolutely they did. Elijah even said to God, “I am a man of unclean lips.” He was human; and we know that no one will have their “spiritual new bodies” until the Rapture; they will be the very first ones to do so; in Heaven today, there are only human souls, “all groaning to get their spiritual new bodies” the Bible says. When the Bible says that Elijah was taken into heaven, remember that God clearly distinguishes between the three heavens. Heaven #1 is our atmosphere; heaven #2 is the Cosmos (the current realm of Satan and his Angels); remember in the Book of Daniel, Daniel prayed to God, and God answered immediately, but Satan’s Angels held up the Angel Gabriel in the Cosmos (heaven #2) for 21 days! As humans, we have no business in outer space; our boundaries, the Bible says, were drawn up by God, and they are of this realm, on the Earth. So, when the Bible says that Elijah was taken up in a whirlwind into heaven; one, no whirlwind is that long; two, it is merely describing that Elijah went up very high, into the clouds, disappeared to the human eye of Elisha his assistant (just like when we watch a jet disappear, yet we know it is still up there); then, the Angels came back down and carried Elijah into the belly of the Earth, into “Paradise,” the second compartment of Hades; the good part; also called Abraham’s Bosom; where all the people from Adam to the Cross went when they died in obedience to God; awaiting the future Messiah (Jesus), to come take them away, to the Father’s House; Jesus visited with them in Hades-Paradise when He went to “preach to the lost” (when He went to announce His victory to the people in Hades-Torments), the bad side, that He was the prophesied Messiah. At His Ascension, he took up all of those Old Testament saints with Him. After that, Hades-Torments expanded to both sides of the Great Gulf, and “Torments” is now the entire place of Hades (until the GWTJ). “Paradise” was taken up into Heaven with Christ. “Paradise” was once located in the Garden, in Eden; after the fall of Adam and Eve, “Paradise” was taken into Hades and was separated by a Great Gulf. Hades-Paradise was a “comforting place of rest” for the righteous dead, to wait for the Messiah to come; remember what Jesus told the thief on the cross? Today, you will be with Me in “Paradise” (in Hades-Paradise), the good part. In there (in “Paradise”) when Jesus went there, all the OT people like Adam, Eve, Able, Seth, Enoch, Methuselah, Noah, Shem, Abraham, Sarah, Isaac, Rebecca, Jacob (Isreal), Rachael, Joseph, Moses, Aaron, Mariam, Joshua, Boaz, Ruth, Naomi, Samuel, Elijah, Elisha, King Josiah, King David, Amos, Nahum, Daniel, Queen Esther, Ezekiel, Ezra, Nehemiah, Obadiah; and all of those that died in obedience to God were there. Today, when a repented and forgiven BORN AGAIN believer dies, he or she goes straight to Heaven; by contrast, today, when an un-repented, and un-forgiven, un-BORN AGAIN unbeliever dies, they go straight to Hades-Torments, with absolutely NO HOPE ever again, to await the GWTJ, then they will be tossed into Hell for eternity.

Jesus said very clearly, “TRULY I (Jesus-GOD) SAY TO YOU (ALL), YOU MUST BE BORN AGAIN!”

Hi Rob, you have given us a lot to read. I can say that I agree on for the most part but there are a few things, I have a question or like to comment on.
You say, the antichrist was chosen in 1983 and pre-revealed in 2009? So, who is it?
Concerning the survivors of the great tribulation, they can‘t be those in Mat 25. The sheep will go into life eternal, the survivors however will die during the millennium. Also at the end of it, satan will deceive them to go against Jesus Christ and Jerusalem. To me that sounds like getting lost.
Enoch did die? Hebrews 11:5 By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death
How can one die and still not see death? Moses did die, that’s a fact, but where do you get the idea that Elijah did die? So, where is his corpse? Dissolved? Where did both come from anyway, from Abraham’s bosom?
The quote:”I’m a man of unclean lips”, isn’t that from Isaiah 6v5?
You have to be spirit to live in Heaven. That does not rule out sin, since satan could come in front of God’s throne.

Gyod said: Hi Rob, you have given us a lot to read. I can say that I agree for the most part, but there are a few things, I have a question or like to comment on.

My Response: Hi Gyod: I was very glad to read your responses and get those questions. Let’s see if I can make it a bit more clear; and yet, keep overall security a top concern. Let’s have a run at it:

Gyod said: “You say, the Antichrist was chosen in 1983 and pre-revealed in 2009? So, who is it?”

My Response: The clues I gave were as follows:

A. The person that will be the prophesied Antichrist person (was chosen in 1983) … that is absolutely correct.

B. He is “in power” already today; and is scheduled to be moved from his present “major world leader” position, to his “enthroned” position as a One-World King … that is absolutely correct.

C. His Biblical symbol and clue is “The Rider on the White Horse”… (Rev. 6:2) … that is absolutely correct.

D. His CFR Emblem (He belongs to the CFR), is a “White Horse”… that is absolutely correct. You can “BING” that.

E. He will be “The Sovereign One-World Leader of the UN-New World Order … that is absolutely correct.

F. His New World Order position will be that of the (soon coming) 9th UN-Secretary General … that is absolutely correct.

G. He was “pre-revealed” (to the world) in that position (like in Revelation 6:2), on the Illuminati unholy date of Sept. 9, 2009 (or, 9-9-9); now, simply turn it upside down … that is absolutely correct.

H. It’s no big secret if you know the “Luciferian” people and lineage behind the New World Order Satanic-Babylonian-Nimrodian Throne … that is absolutely correct.

I. His actual CFR (Council on Foreign Relations) Code name is Nimrod … that is absolutely correct.

J. His current political Code name is Renegade, which means “The Lawless One”… “The Rebel” … that is absolutely correct.

K. His coming IS in the way of the works of Satan,” just like the Bible says … that is absolutely correct.

L. Everything I just mentioned (above) is per their own words, not mine; so that should keep people mindful.
Now, I mentioned that I am a long time Bible teacher; but what I hadn’t mentioned before, is that I also have extensive education, knowledge, and information (in and on) Christian, non-Christian, and pagan religious groups; the cults and occults, dark secret societies, geo-politics, American, World, and Jewish ancient and modern history, Babylonian, Egyptian, and Roman Empire history, the workings of the “white” Papal-Vatican, and the “black” Jesuit-Vatican groups, and the Power Backers behind this nefarious man that will rule very soon; also, knowledge of the workings and plans for humanity by the New World Order and New Age groups, that are overseen by the Committee of 300; finally, I’ve also invested close to 9,000 hours of research (over the last 6 years) into the Luciferian group (alone, the BN) that have already set him up in his “current position” of power (as the 7th king), and will also set him in his “future position” of power (as the 8th king); as the UNSG. They (this syndicate) personally chose him in 1983; they also own (along with their “other” 12 BN associates), roughly 82% to 85% of all the known wealth on the planet. They own and control all the major world Newspapers, Magazines, TV, and Radio News Media outlets (through second and third parties, to keep their profile invisible); also, so “their man” always gets all the “positive” coverage, while any challengers get mocked, ridiculed, and dismissed by that same global Media. They own all major Hollywood Movie the Music Industry Studios and the major contracts to all the major Movie Stars, Singers, Musicians, and Bands. They own and control the 6 major “Sisters” Oil Company cartels; the world’s global Forests; they own and control all Commerce through their UCC (Uniform Commercial Code), and no major global “Commerce” can be done without their approval, or monetary cuts of the action; thus, just like the Bible says, you will not be able to “Buy or Sell” (anything) on this planet without their approval; and the list goes on and on ad nauseam. But, all of these clues I’ve given, are two-fold; first, knowing what I know about current Internet oversight (that most people are clueless about), I would never jeopardize anyone’s website by leaking the actual name; that would be unkind and unprofessional to a website owner; because my job is to teach the things of God, not the things of the dark side; after all, as a Christian, we aren’t looking for the coming of the Antichrist, we are looking forward to our “Blessed Hope,” the “appearing of our Great God and King, the REAL CHRIST. Second, I have also done it in this manner, so as to get people to do actual hard research, so that when you’re done “Bing-ing” and “Google-ing”… you will not have been completely spoon fed; but rather, you will have been led straight to the sources, and the truth will be clearly seen and revealed; these people aren’t hiding anything anymore, it’s just that people are getting their knowledge from the day-to-day general TV sources that these people control as propaganda, so you’ll never find the sources where the Beast System is lying to you; you must “search” … and as Jesus said, “And you shall know the Truth, and the Truth shall set (make) you free.” So, “Here is wisdom, let him that has understanding, “calculate” (come up with) the number of the Beast.” Remember, finding “The Beast” is a two-part solution; his 13 “Powers Backers” make up the “Beast System” (of the soon to be implemented New World Order/One-World Government and the New Age/One-World Religion); start with the number 44, and tie it to all the clues above; finally, search out their New Babylon world headquarters digs; Astana, Kazakhstan. The following link is a simple and good first start…

6 years ago, I started with a clear word from the Lord after I had prayed for some time to be able to search out the real (Biblically prophesied) Antichrist and False Prophet personages, so that I could write and warn people about them; He said, “In order to fully understand the Serpent, you must be willing to go down the Serpent’s hole;” then He added, “But do not go into his realm alone, and never without first seeking Me and My help to lead you.” I have taken that journey, I have learned things that sometimes I wish I had never known; so I tell people, take that as a clear word of caution, it is a scary and dark place they come from; it is not for the faint of heart, or the newbie Christian. My previous post also has more info as well. Copy and Paste both blogs onto a Word Doc, re-space, and happy hunting.

Gyod said: “Concerning the survivors of the Great Tribulation, they can‘t be those in Matthew 25. The sheep will go into life eternal, the survivors however will die during the millennium. Also at the end of it, Satan will deceive them to go against Jesus Christ and Jerusalem. To me that sounds like getting lost.

My Response: You are confusing several passages and meanings into one, and your outcome is thus in error. When Jesus comes, we read in Matthew 25:31-46, that He will judge the nations. These are ALL the people that survived the entire 7 year Tribulation period; both the tribulation, and the Great Tribulation. In all of those nations that come before the Great King (Jesus), there will be the surviving “repented believers” (the Sheep), and the surviving un-repented unbelievers (the Goats). In verse 34, Jesus says, “come (you Sheep) inherit the kingdom prepared for you …” this isn’t the “Eternal Kingdom,” this is the “Millennial Kingdom”… the “Eternal Kingdom” will start after the GWTJ, when Jesus “totally remakes” (not remodels) the Earth; and all the inhabitants of “that” final and “Eternal Kingdom” will be “immortals” … no more mortals then (after the GWTJ); so, during the “Millennial Kingdom”… they (the Sheep) will go on to repopulate the Earth during the (1,000 yr.) “Millennial Kingdom,” … again, this isn’t the “Eternal Kingdom.” Then, in verse 46, Jesus says (you Goats), “go away into ‘eternal’ punishment (that’s true, because these people as I explained before, will be Hades-bound for the 1,000 years; until the GWTJ occurs; then, they come up only to receive their final judgment, as noted in Rev. 20:11-15; at which time, they are ALL tossed into Hell (which is the Lake of Fire, not Hades); So, once they are proclaimed “damned” by Jesus in verse 46, at His Second Coming, they are immediately killed (the Goats only) and they are (already) headed in their “eternal” direction, because there will be no “other chances” for them at the GWTJ. Now, in that same verse 46, Jesus says, “… but the righteous (the repented ones; the Sheep) into eternal life.” Now, here is the mistake that many make; the Sheep that go into the “Millennial Kingdom” will ALL be mortals; and their lives will be extended like before the Flood of Noah; the Bible says that if a person dies (only mortals die) during this “Millennial Kingdom” time period at age 100, that he or she will be considered as having died “as a child,” thus, the progression of the extended life spans; because if 100 years old is a “child,” what is the age of an “old person” in that Kingdom? The Bible also says that Jesus will Rule with a “Rod of Iron” during this time period; He will not put up with the “mortals” foolishness or unbelief, because they have Him (in person) with them; so there should be no reason for unbelief; thus, as in every OT story of the Nation Israel, in every “next” generation after God dealt with them, with a judgment, they would again “turn away from the Truth and Mandates of God; and, they would again follow their own evil and wicked ways;” so the same thing will occur during this time period; but unlike then, Jesus will NOT put up with their foolishness; so when they decide to turn from Him and His Authority during the “Millennial Kingdom,” those people that do so will be put to death instantly, and tossed into Hades, until the GWTJ occurs. During that same time period, all of the Saved “saints” from the OT, NT, the raptured Bride church, and the Tribulation saints; we will ALL RULE and REIGN with Christ, as “Immortal Righteous Overseers”… over all the mortals, of all the world nations.

So we will be dispersed into all of the world nations, and for 1,000 years, we will act as leaders over those nations; and we will report directly to KING JESUS in Jerusalem. No messing around allowed (by the mortals) during the “Millennial Kingdom” reign of Christ; if you choose to disobey, you’re history; if you obey, you will not only be allowed to live for the 1,000 years; after the 1,000 years are up, those same long-lived “obedient people” will (then) receive their “eternal bodies,” just like the other immortals (before the GWTJ occurs); and thus, the statement becomes finally true in verse 46, “… but the righteous (the obedient ones) into eternal life,” because after the GWTJ, the “Eternal Kingdom” starts; you can’t have an “Eternal Kingdom” until all inhabitants of that Kingdom are immortal, and that doesn’t occur until the end of the “Millennial Kingdom”… the “Millennial Kingdom” is only for 1,000 years (duh), but the “Eternal Kingdom” is forever (double duh). During the “Millennial Kingdom” Jesus will “remodel” the Earth; clean up everything; and World Peace will be a reality; plus, Satan and all of his fallen Angels and demons will be locked up.
But, at the end of the 1,000 years, Satan and his cohorts are released into the world again “for a short time,” and as unbelievable as it might sound, Satan will be able to convince many of the mortals to follow him, and he will lead them like a mighty army to attack Jesus in Jerusalem; when they show up, Fire (lightning) comes down from Heaven, and they are immediately incinerated and destroyed forever; so, it’s true; many of the “subsequent generations” after the Second Coming the will turn away from God, even under these “perfect conditions,” and that is why they will be dealt with immediately … to prove to the rest of the mortals, that Satan was never fully to blame for every evil and wicked act in our mortal world; our own “wicked hearts” must share that blame. Remember Jeremiah? (Paraphrased) “Who can trust the heart; it is deceitful and desperately wicked.”

Gyod said: Enoch did die? Hebrews 11:5 – “By faith Enoch was translated, that he should not see death.” How can one die and still not see death? Moses did die, that’s a fact, but where do you get the idea that Elijah did die? So, where is his corpse? Dissolved? Where did both come from anyway, from Abraham’s bosom?

My Response: The key word in that verse is “translated,” which simply means to be “changed in an instant” from one state of being to another; just like what will happen to the Raptured Bride church (only repented Born Again believers make up the Bride church). The apostle Paul said, “We (the Bride church) will not ALL DIE, but we will ALL be CHANGED, in a MOMENT, in the twinkling of an eye.” That is exactly what happened to Enoch; that is why he is considered the forerunner (a ‘type and shadow’ if you will) of the Raptured Bride church; first, he was a Gentile (there were no Hebrews at that time), all humans were Gentiles; Hebrews didn’t come around until God separated Abraham from his pagan Gentile people in Ur (today, southern Iraq), and told him that He was going to make of him a great, separated, and chosen nation; and that occurred roughly 1,800 yrs. after Enoch was taken “without warning” (aka: Raptured).

Second; the Bible says that “flesh and blood” cannot exist in Heaven; so, Enoch was “changed” from “flesh, (human) blood, and bones,” into a “translated spiritual-type body,” with no more (human) blood; similar to Jesus’ own body after His Resurrection. Paul said that the (Earthly body) that is buried [physically] is not the same body [spiritually] that is resurrected; in other words, it is the same human body [basically], but after being translated, it morphs if you will, into the same, yet different state of existence; ergo, since the Bible says that “life” is in the blood, and Enoch would then have had no more blood at the point of translation; he had to have died [in the normal physical sense], in order to be “translated” into a “spiritual” body; and since Jesus said that “No one has gone up, into Heaven, except Him (Jesus) that came down from Heaven, we can intelligently conclude that Enoch was raptured, translated (changed), and taken directly into Hades-“Paradise”(the good part); where he would have joined the likes of Able, Adam, and Seth; also, since being in the “Belly of the Earth” (Hades-“Paradise”- probably some 2,000 miles or so into the Earth); a “normal” air-requiring and breathing human body would have had huge problems with a lack of oxygen and pressure differentials; but a “translated” spiritual body would have done just fine. The Bible simply says that “Enoch walked with (had a Godly relationship with) the LORD, and that one day, he (Enoch) was not, because the Lord took him (He was Raptured, taken away suddenly, without warning).” That would also make Jesus words ring true, that no one had entered into the Third Heaven, the Fathers’ House, until after the Ascension.

Third; as for Elijah, it would have been the same thing as Enoch; but there, God sent “His Fiery Limo Service” to pick him up; whereas Enoch was simply taken (snatched away; in the NT Greek it would be similar to being harpazoed, “caught up”); and just like the Bride church; when we are Raptured, corpses aren’t going to fall out of the sky; the “risen dead” will be changed from “corruptible” human bodies (dead, stinky, and dust) to “incorruptible” (to immortal spiritual bodies of flesh and bones; but then, perfected; just like Jesus’ resurrected body); and the “risen living” will be changed from “mortal” to “immortal” (both groups will be “translated”) but still, no “mortal” corpses involved after that happens. And yes, since Jesus said no one had gone up into Heaven, both Enoch and Elijah would have been in Abraham’s Bosom (Hades-“Paradise”), just like Jesus described to us in Luke 16 (The rich man and Lazarus). At the Transfiguration, Moses and Elijah came up, out of Abraham’s Bosom (Hades-“Paradise”), and joined to speak with the Glorified (in the moment) Jesus; just like when King Saul had the Prophet Samuel come up, out of Abraham’s Bosom (Hades-“Paradise”).

Gyod said: The quote: “I’m a man of unclean lips,” isn’t that from Isaiah 6:5?

My Response: Yes, Isaiah had just had a vision given to him of the Coming Messiah (the first time); and he felt totally unworthy, which would be a normal response by any (unperfected) human being in the presence of a Very Holy God, and His Holy Angels.

Gyod said: “You have to be spirit to live in Heaven. That does not rule out sin, since Satan could come in front of God’s Throne.

My Response: Not completely true Gyod. Today, all of the Souls that are in Heaven are without their former earthly bodies, yet the Bible says, “they groan for them,” because we were made to be Body, Soul, and spirit, not just a Soul; but someday, they will all receive their “translated” bodies; but for now, they are in Heaven in “spirit form,” which is merely a duplicate of the human form they once had on Earth; but later on, they will all be reunited to their perfected “spiritual” (once-Earthly) bodies, just like Jesus was; but unlike the ghostly looking Soul right now, they will have the same (solid) body as the Risen LORD; and just like Jesus said to Thomas, “See Thomas touch Me, I am not a spirit (aka: a ghost, or an apparition); I am fully “flesh and bones” (with no blood) … and “those new perfected bodies” will be bodies that can walk through walls; travel from one dimension to another at the speed of “thought (from Earth to Heaven);” a body that will never thirst or get hungry, yet you can drink and eat (like Jesus did); but, without any blood, there is also no need for any organs or bodily functions. It will be a body that enjoys, but does not have to function like it once did; a body that has extreme knowledge and capabilities, and will be totally sinless.

As for Sin and Satan coming in front of God’s Throne; you didn’t read it correctly as is stated in the Book of Job. It states that Satan and his Angels presented themselves “before” (in front of) the LORD. That doesn’t necessitate being in the Third Heaven nor God sitting on His Throne; thus, you are limiting the LORD my friend; God says that no unholy thing can be in Heaven; and that cast of characters certainly fits the bill. Since their rebellion in Heaven, “they gave up their prime abode”… so they aren’t allowed to go into the Third Heaven anymore since then; but, God (being Omnipresent) can be with them in the Cosmos, without them going into His House; thus, no unholy thing still DOES NOT enter into Heaven, and again, God’s presence doesn’t mean He has to be sitting on His Throne. Also, remember previously I said that there are three heavens; Paul verified this for us (H1, our atmosphere; H2, the Cosmos; and H3, God’s House). When Satan rebelled, he and a third of the Angels were tossed out of Heaven; not all to Earth, but rather, into the Cosmos (with some of the most violent Angels being placed in caves, bound with God-powered spirit-holding chains; in darkness; in the “Abyss” (in the Great Gulf; in the vertical shaft between Hades, and way lower Hell); in the Book of the Revelation, after they fight Michael and his Angels, Satan and his Angels will be tossed (THEN), to the Earth. For now, they are in the Cosmos (that is why “Space Aliens” are actually real entities, they just aren’t humanoid-looking or reptilian-looking races from other worlds; they are demons and fallen Angels living in their own realm, until they are cast down later on). So when you read this story below; be aware of the true UN-US-Vatican-New World Order (Luciferian) meaning:

“No one will enter the New World Order, unless he or she makes a pledge to worship Lucifer; and no one will enter the New Age, unless he or she undergoes a Luciferian Initiation.”

“In the New World Order, man will become a throw away; you will be allowed to exist, only until you become a surplus to our global requirements. The Earth has a cancer, that cancer is man.”

(*) Planetary Commission: This is an actual UN Group that is already setup; and will function as the “Official UN/Space Aliens Welcoming Committee (no joke).

House of Representatives Bill – HR 8791

Below is the “actual transcript” of House Bill 8791 as it was read to those about to vote for this piece of legislation in the US House of Representatives; this Bill passed the House of Representatives unanimously. Attached you will find the YouTube link, so you can to actually hear it yourself; it is absolutely horrific. Washington bloggers and Internet minions quickly placed an “Onion Trademark” symbol next to the CSPAN emblem, to try and make it seem like a spoof; they do it all the time; to try and deflect the real message; this Bill is already US Law; it is by no means a spoof. When this video first came out on CSPAN; the “Onion” was not there.

(The Actual Text) HR 8791: The “Homeland Terrorism Preparedness Bill”

“Congress shall now vote for approval of HR 8791, the Homeland Terrorism Preparedness Bill, as said Bill requests Emergency Response Funding up to and including … “I’m sorry this section is” – CLASSIFIED – dollars to prepare for a national level terrorist attack and/or an attack from – CLASSIFIED –. Funding for first responder personnel and vehicles would be doubled if said attack leads to 80% of national population being affected by – CLASSIFIED –. This funding shall commence with the first attack on – CLASSIFIED –; or the first large-scale outbreak of – CLASSIFIED –, dependent upon which comes first. Civilian and military units shall be trained in containment and combat of – CLASSIFIED –, including irradiated (radiation in) – CLASSIFIED – with the possibility of – CLASSIFIED – airborne – CLASSIFIED –, flesh-eating – CLASSIFIED –, and/or all of the above in such an event as – CLASSIFIED – spewing – CLASSIFIED – or released, or otherwise becomes uncontrollable. Air Force units may also be directed to combat said – CLASSIFIED –, due to their enormous size and other-worldly strengths. Should this event occur in urban areas …….. “Jesus … that’s, that’s” – CLASSIFIED –, far surpassing our darkest nightmares. Should casualties exceed – CLASSIFIED – body disposal actions shall be halted, and associated resources shall be re-allocated to – CLASSIFIED –, underground – CLASSIFIED protected birthing centers (D.U.M.B.’s). A new “Bill of Rights” shall be drafted and approved by – CLASSIFIED –. “Having now reviewed the Bill, I ask you to please cast your vote.”

Rob, your last post was really a pleasure to read and it gave me quite some new insight. I still have questions, though.
According to your interpretation only saved ones will enter the millennium. Will many of those still lose their salvation?
As for satan coming before the Lord, it really makes sense what you write. I always thought, he would go directly before the throne. But it does not say that.
I have seen the clip about that session. It was ridiculous. How can you vote on a bill with half the content classified.
I see the point in not disclosing the name of the ac in a blog or forum. Would you mail me his name or will it be easy to find out myself?

gyod said: Rob, your last post was really a pleasure to read and it gave me quite some new insight. I still have questions, though.

My Response: Thank you … to God, be all the Glory, He taught me.

gyod said: Q: According to your interpretation only Saved ones will enter the millennium.

My Response: Absolutely correct.

gyod said: Q: Will many of those still lose their salvation?

My Response: You have to remember that only the “initial group” of “mortals” (the original millennial kingdom-entering sheep) will ALL be (for sure) Saved and Godly; that is how they are able to enter into the Kingdom in the first place; but, their (mortal) offspring, aka: all of their “succeeding generations” will have to make the very same commitment to Salvation in Christ Jesus as everyone else has had to do previous to them; but, it appears that the generations that follow will mimic every “post-judgment” “succeeding generation” (like in the Bible). Since all of those “succeeding generations” WILL NOT have been actual first-hand eyewitnesses to the Tribulation, Armageddon, the Second Coming, or the judging of the Nations (where the [repented-believer] Sheep were spared, and [unrepented/unbeliever] Goats were killed); all they will have (humanly speaking), are the stories that the “initial group” of “mortals” (those that WERE actual first-hand eyewitnesses to the Tribulation, Armageddon, the Second Coming, and the judging of the Nations tell them. Also, before the Second Coming, all humans believed by “faith” that Jesus was actually going to come back again; because for 2,000, we all believed by “faith” and not by (physical) sight; but the “initial group” of “mortals” will have been in both groups (the walking by faith, and the eyewitnesses to the actual return of Christ); but, the “succeeding generations” will only know PERFECTION … a “totally remodeled” Earth; no more wars; REAL world peace (under King Jesus); perfectly clean air, water, soil, and oceans; everyone will have jobs, industries will flourish, and ALL the cities of the world that were destroyed (in Rev. 16:17-21, see verse 19), will be rebuilt, brand new.

Yes, oceans will exist during the “Millennial Kingdom,” but not in the “Eternal Kingdom;” Why? No one can say positively, but my take, using my engineering background, is that since “eternal bodies” have no blood, they also have no organs, because organs need blood to function; so, without lungs, eternal bodies don’t need to breathe; and since breath is not a factor, then air to breathe is also not required; so by mere interpolation, the oceans would not be required as well. Only God truly knows. Some say the ocean means “chaos,” and chaos won’t be part of the “Eternal Kingdom” but, I always try to look at the Bible in a straight forward way, without fanfare or tangents that lead down a rabbit hole. As long as I’m with God the Father, and my LORD and Savior Jesus; anything is just fine.

Also, the oceans have many functions, like taking up and dissolving all of the excess CO2 that is generated on Earth that global plants and trees don’t need, or use (which is also why carbon tax legislation and “global warming” is a total fraud; global warming “assumes” that God is not in control, which is complete idiocy. Anyway, oceans help cleanse the air, they give us clouds and rain, and aid in global cooling; cooling which is originated in the oceans, and carried across the globe by the jet stream; so although these things are all hugely important to “normal humans”… they aren’t needed in an “Eternal Kingdom” of “immortals;” like (possibly) in Heaven today, and for sure, in Eden before; rain and clouds were not a part of the global environment (that is also why people didn’t believe Noah). The Bible says, “A MIST rose up from the GROUND [not from the oceans], and watered the Earth;” but, I’ve digressed, sorry.
Anyway since the “succeeding generations” will be “spoiled” by the “great global conditions,” and never having known a time “without” Jesus around (physically); in the following years, they will simply think that the “original mortals” were just making up “old scary tales” to try to keep them “in line” with King Jesus’ Authority and Rule; so the human heart being what it is; disbelief will probably start within the first 100 years of the “millennium,” and continue to the end. We know this is what will probably happen, since once Satan is released “for a little while” (just before the GWTJ), he will be able to convince “millions” of “millennium mortals” to turn against Jesus, and go with him to Jerusalem to attack the King; but God will destroy them instantly (Rev. 20:7-10); so, when we analyze that scenario, we can intelligently assume that not only will “many” die during the millennium because they will have stopped believing the “original mortals” and also turned against Jesus and His “Rod of Iron Ruler-ship”… but also, many will turn at the very end, thus giving Satan the “Millions” that will follow him (“…and the number of them were like the sands of the sea”); and, since they were (also) disobedient to Jesus’ Authority, they WILL ALSO be “un-Saved” and Hades, then Hell-bound; just like anyone else during the millennium that is mortal. So although the “millennium mortals” will start out Godly and Saved, one can easily see that their “offspring” will end up (for the most part), un-Godly and un-Saved … which also matches all the scenarios in the Bible where God and humans have related to one another; God says “Do this,” and man says, “No, I’ll do this instead.” But I believe like the Bible says, that once you are truly Saved, nothing can snatch you from Jesus’ grasp; so the “original mortal sheep” should remain Saved to the End, because they saw things firsthand; also, if they weren’t truly Saved at the Second Coming, Jesus would have known, and He would have tossed them into the Goat herd, right?.

gyod said: As for Satan coming before the Lord, it really makes sense what you write. I always thought he would go directly before the throne. But it does not say that.

My Response: That is correct; God can go into any place He wants, Holy or unholy; He is Omnipresent; but Satan and his ilk being extremely unholy and not Omnipresent, or able to do things without God’s permission; can’t go into a Holy Place.
gyod said: I have seen the clip about that [Congressional] session. It was ridiculous.

My Response: And horrific, and it is “well planned” to take place [they, the R/BN Dark side says], towards the end of 2012; with “expected warnings” coming out of the United Nations New World Order (kingdom of the Antichrist) Headquarters, sometime starting around August (their words, not mine; we’ll see). It will involve the UN-US-Vatican-NASA-DARPA-HAARP-and high-altitude Satellites, in a “false flag” scenario called Project Blue Beam. It will be part 3D-HD-Super Stereophonic-Holographic Imagery Aerial Showstopper, and part actual-real-Demons (but sold to the totally frightened world public as Invading Space Aliens; just like the movie Independence Day). They are also going to put forth a false Rapture scenario to try to totally break the “will to believe” of all Christians, and the Holograms will show “every messiah” of “every religion” (like a Buddha, Allah, and a fake Jesus, etc., etc.) then, they will ALL be melded into the one “false world teacher”… one that the UN-US-NWO Luciferians will call Maitreya; so, when all these “false messiahs” show up in the atmosphere, it should remind everyone what Jesus said; “Be not deceived, MANY will come in MY NAME (Messiah, the Christ, the Savior)”… and again, Jesus warned, “beware of (their) lying signs and wonders.”

gyod said: Q: How can you vote on a bill with half the content “classified.”

My Response: Don’t be so surprised gyod, in January of this year (2012), the Senate and Congress passed 40,000 (imagine that) … in one month alone, 40,000 Laws, Regulations, and Secret Bills … and not one Bill to create “a single American job.” Please understand this, the current ruling groups (Democrats, Republicans, Libertarians, Tea Partiers, Independents, Green Partiers, and “Progressives” in our Senate and Congress [“Progressives” means Marxist/Socialist/Communist]; they are ALL owned and controlled by the very same nefarious R/BN Group; and their goal is to fully destroy this once Great and Godly country (first), then bring down the house on the rest of the world, in order to implement global martial law, followed by the announcement from the UN that “the entire world is now theirs”… then, the Antichrist will be (Book of Revelation) “Officially Revealed and Enthroned”… THEN, the 7 years start; and 2,520 days later, KING JESUS appears. As a “Born Again” Christian, I won’t be around to witness all that, so how close are we then to the Rapture, days, weeks, months? That is why it is so critical to warn others immediately … the Biblically prophesied “Enemy of the Cross” is clawing to take over, and only the “Hand of God” is keeping it from commencing today.

gyod said: Q: I see the point in not disclosing the name of the ac in a blog or forum. Would you mail me his name or will it be easy to find out myself?

My Response: Both previous posts gave you “tons” of really good clues; in there, I gave you a huge clue, his number! It isn’t just conjecture, he was specifically bred; chosen; anointed; educated; indoctrinated; then hidden until just the right time then, all of his records were sealed from the public, permanently. He is the only human being (and also world leader) who “exactly matches” 70 Biblical Antichrist points. Just like the Bible said, he will serve in his (first) position (for a short while) “…as a 7th king (current world leader); then, He himself (the very same world leader), shall also be an 8th king (the 9th UNSG).” This man was chosen (by the R/BN in 1983) to fill the positions as two major world leaders, he is currently serving as a 7th king; and soon he will be enthroned as the 8th and final king.
(Revelation 17:9-12) “The Antichrist and False Prophet found together in one passage” [Information in brackets inserted for historical and passage clarification]

09 “Here the mind that has wisdom [here is a person who has Godly knowledge]; the “seven heads” [of the scarlet/red
beast] are seven mountains on which the WOMAN sits [this is the False Prophet here; “Babylon The Great, Mother of
Harlots; the Mother, from where all the other post-first century Christian religions came from; the seven mountains are;
Aventine, Caelian, Capitoline, Esquiline, Palatine, Quirinal, and Viminal; thus, Rome; thus, Roman Catholicism]. 10 AND
they are [also] “seven kings” [ergo: thus, also seven kingdoms]: “five are fallen” [five of the seven kings/kingdoms are
dead and gone], “one is” [one of the seven kings/kingdom, the sixth king/kingdom, currently exists, and is ruling], and
“the other” [the seventh king/kingdom] “is not yet come” [is not here yet; thus, he and his kingdom will come in the
future]; and when he does come [that future seventh king and his kingdom], “he must remain for a short while” [he will
be around and rule in that seventh kingdom, as that seventh king, for only a few years; let’s say maybe 4 years?] 11 AND
“the BEAST” [now, this is the Antichrist here; he was “pre-revealed” on 9-9-9 by the UN (rotate the numbers); but will
assume his full satanic power (per the Bible), after he is killed; then allowed by God, Satan will resurrect his “dead lifeless
body” and enter him; to personally possess it for the last 42 months (3-1/2 years) of the total 7 years] “that was,” [that
Beast that was the seventh king] “and is not” [and is now “not” the seventh king any longer] “is himself” [that same
seventh king] “also an eighth” [the seventh king; the very same person, is now also the eighth king], “and is one of the
seven [and still, this same eighth king, has a very real connection to the previous seven kings/thus the previous seven
kingdoms] “and he goes to destruction/perdition.” [So, while serving as the eighth king, he will suddenly, without
warning, be destroyed by SOMEONE; then he, that eighth king, will also be cast by this same SOMEONE, into Hell].

FOOTNOTE: The Bible as I mentioned in a previous posting, was written by Jews, for Jews, about Jews; Salvation is of the
Jews; and the Gospel was to go to the “Jew first, then the Gentile.” So, all Biblical things must be analyzed through the
Jewish Nation, Jewish eyes, and through the Jewish Culture; everything else fails, because “God the Holy Spirit dictated
the entire contents of the Holy Scriptures (the Bible says), into the minds of the Holy (Jewish; except Luke) men of God.”
So the seven kings and seven kingdoms (thus, seven world empires), MUST ALL have something to do with ISRAEL; and
those seven kingdoms are historically, the Egyptian, the Assyrians, the Babylonians, the Medes and Persians, the Greeks,
the Romans, the Revived Roman; and the very soon, United Nations/New World Order/Kingdom of the Antichrist. The
Book of The Revelation was given to John the apostle around 95 AD; so in that year, you have to be able to find five
major kingdoms/five major world empires that had existed, that were now dead and gone to John, that were also
involved with the Nation Israel (1-Egyptian, 2-Assyrian, 3-Babylonian, 4-Medes and Persians, and 5-Greece). Then again,
in 95 AD, there also had to be one major kingdom/one major world empire that was currently ruling over John the
apostle; and, that was also involved with Israel (6-Roman). Now, here is clue #1: find the seventh major kingdom/major
world empire (from the old Roman Empire) that is on Earth today, that is also involved with, and/or a protector of Israel;
also, that same major world empire has to have been involved with, and/or a protector of Israel on, and since May 14,
1948 (when modern day Israel became a Nation again, as prophesied in the Bible). Here is clue #2; in order to be a true
“Revived Roman Empire,” it has to have the very same “symbols and signature stuff” as did the old Roman Empire. For
example, the old Roman Empire had as it’s national symbol, the Mighty Roman Eagle; it was also a fascist dictatorship,
meaning that they were completely similar in ideology as today’s so-called “Progressives,” that is to say, they were very
much like today’s Marxist/Socialists/Communists; they were pagans, they hated Jesus and the Holy God of the Jewish
Scriptures, they were anti-Christian, they had a Senate; and, their official Roman Senate building was located on
Capitoline Hill. Finally, clue #3; on September 9, 2009 (9-9-9), rotate the numbers; this future eighth king accepted the
gavel-ship of the UN Security Council; at which time he formally became the “Pre-revealed Coming One-World Leader” to
his elitist R/BN Luciferian, Illuminati, Freemason, Kingdom Power-Backers; thus formally revealing himself as “their man”
that will soon lead them into their much-ballyhooed (Golden Age of Man) UN-New World Order; this future eighth king
gave his UN global speech 15 days later.

You can Copy and Paste all 3 blogs to a WORD Doc; re-align, re-space, and keep in a binder for future reference or
discussions with others … take care gyod, I’ll be moving on … I hope these have helped you … and others as well …

Rob, sometimes the answer is so easy and you still don’t see it.
It will be the offspring of those, who entered the millennium.
It will be just as after the Israelites entered the promised land.
Those came up, who did not God’s miracles at the red sea and
off they went after other gods.
Scientists say there was a single land mass a long time ago and
I think, this is even in the bible. You know, Peleg and the splitup of
the earth. The Lord will be doing a major landscape modelling at the
end of the great tribulation, so we could end up with one continent again.
Concerning breath. It may serve other functions than providing oxygen
for body organs. I do not claim to know how the new body will function,
but from what I have heard from those records of those who had to go
through the temporal experience of being an inmate in the current hell,
they could not stop breathing forever.
Rain was not existant before Noah but my guess is that there was a
layer of water vapor/clouds, which prevented the sun from shining
directly onto the earth. With that you could also explain the much smaller
temperature variations between equator and the poles.
Satan is allowed to enter the dead body of the antichrist to possess it?
That does not make sense to me. In the end he will be destroyed and
nothing left to be cast into the lake of fire, not even a soul.
To me he is a human being in whom Satan will live as the Holy Spirit is
living in us.
If you want to continue our discussion by email, send a short one torob@mszs.de
Otherwise thanks for all and the Lord’s blessing!

there are demons and evil sprits who at the end will carry out GODS will and will be ready when the time has come for the wicked that are reserved for them by GODS will and when the time comes they will not blaspheme his word These are GODS instruments of punishment against the wicked.

Great post gyod! But you missed a few things. Here is one very important date October 9, 2009 – Feasts of Tabernacles.

Code names, Renegade (defined as “the lawless one” or “the Rebel”) given by the Secret Service and Nimrod (king who was rebellious against God) given by the Council on Foreign Relations made a speech to Congress on September 9, 2009 . Out of the seats before him came a cry, “You Lie”. The congressman was “compelled” to speak the truth but no one understood the message – he speaks as the “Father of lies” (John 8:44).

Yes, Nimrod gave another speech 15 days later to the UN. “The religious convictions that we hold in our hearts can forge new bonds among people, or they can tear us apart…. the rights of both Israelis and Palestinians are respected… No world order that elevates one nation or group of people over another will succeed… No balance of power among nations will hold… Our efforts to promote peace, however, cannot be limited to defeating violent extremists…we will strengthen our support for effective peacekeeping… the time has come to re-launch negotiations without preconditions that address the permanent status issues: security for Israelis and Palestinians, borders, refugees, and Jerusalem… And this leads me to the final pillar that must fortify our future: a global economy that advances opportunity for all people.” “Now, I am not naïve”.

When Renegade loses the election in November – he’ll be stepping up to the UN Gen Sec position.

Nimrod (some think he is a moron) received the Noble Peace Prize on October 9, 2009 but he did nothing to deserve it – no treaty; no agreements were signed by Nimrod. He just stood there and “confirmed peace with many” when accepting the “crown” or the prize from the world!

October 9, 2009 was the day the first seal opened and “he” rode out “conquering and to conquer.” Well, maybe he rode out in nine months earlier as the seal was opening – but, the seal officially opened on Feasts of Tabernacles of 2009 when “he” accepted the crown/prize.

The seals opened many months ago folks.

Sometime in the winter of 2013, he will be revealed as “he” who rode the white horse (Noble Peace Prize), the red horse (Arab Spring), the black horse (economic/currency shift that is about to take place) and then ….the “pale” horse with Death and Haties follows after him. At the end of winter and before the Sabbathof 2013 is when we alll shall “not return from the field to get your overcoat” (Matthew 24).

Jesus said “See, I am giving you warning beforehand” in that same chapter in Matthew.

Wake up!!

Please, get on the Armor of Light (Romans 13:12-14)

“And do this, knowing the time, that now it is high time to awake out of sleep; for now our salvation is nearer than when we first believed. The night is far spent, the day is at hand. Therefore let us cast off the works of darkness, and let us put on the armor of light. Let us walk properly, as in the day, not in revelry and drunkenness, not in lewdness and lust, not in strife and envy. But put on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make no provision for the flesh, to fulfill its lusts” (NKJV).

Make sure your Armor of God fits too!

“Finally, my brethren, be strong in the Lord and in the power of His might. Put on the whole armor of God, that you may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil. For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this age, against spiritual hosts of wickedness in the heavenly places (Ephs 6:10-12, NKJV).

The Pre-Trib rapture docturine is false teaching at its best.
It is time to get ready – be a wise virgin and read Proverbs 23:23.

Folks the “rapture” is not the excape vehicle for the next few years. You will see “him” as Jesus says in Matthew 24.

Do you have a testiomony? Do you know the power of the Blood to overcome him unto death? (Rev 12:11).

I do not know for sure if he is “him” but I agree with what you said. I think the red horse will be much more than arab spring, and the black and pale horses will also be much worse than what we see now.

Prophecy is being fulfilled in front of our eyes. WE should not be blind.

I have gained much insight from these post. I do agree, the pretrib rapture is false teaching. I also agree the 7 years has started. I stated in some earlier post the Lord gave me a dream on March 5, 2012 to “quit looking for the covenant” it has happened. The next thing he said to “look” for is the AoD. So…if what you are saying about Oct 9, 2009 being the “covenant with many”…would not 42 months later be sometime next April 2013? I know that I am watching diligently as if that is what the Lord said to look for next, then that is what I am looking for next. I am sure many things are going to happen between now and then to move us right in to the one world government immediately once this takes place. So many people i know that are not watching and not listening to my warnings just laugh when I talk about one world government plans have been going on for YEARS…I am shouting to everyone I know to prepare their hearts with Jesus. And…prepare for your physical needs. There is not a pretrib rapture.

Hallow, Israel And Israelite.We Have Standing In Most Challenges Times,And Yet We All Learn From All Those Failures Systems, Mistakes Has Been Spreading On More For Many Decade’s, Century’s. Today All Our Eyes Has See Brightly To Fix All Country Future Today Foundations To Stands Stronger Together, And Fight Off That Devils Doing. That Destroyed Many Lives In Many Country’s Standing On Many Confused Frighting Ways Clearly Today Has. The Needs Is Massive To Put Right In What Needed To Stands All Country Future Today Foundations In More Proper Brighter’s Thinking Attitude To Build UP Country’s Through In Holy Jesus Christ Holy Laws His Power’s To Stand.

Gyod and Rob… I am not convinced at all either of any of this order or of the ideas I have heard so many times for so many years (it is old hat) pri-trib, post trib etc order it all for God… about the two witnesses, the 24 elders, the 144000 which are obviously representatives of Gods Witnesses before the world and nothing less and nothing more, for it is a great thing that Noah and Abraham and Jacob did and it is a Great thing that God and Abraham started together to move away from the worship of idols and talking to the dirt to speaking with the real God of us all. That God said He would Bless Abraham and His seed was no small thing so I do not know why Christians have found it so easy to discard a People and Witnesss and Nation with such arrogance as has been done these last almost 2000 years but, they do it with great gusto and seem to lose the heart of all of this and what has really happened here.

..And of course as we are introduced to “the servants of our God” (Revelation 7:3). They are sealed by God for ministry before the 7th seal is opened. This number is exact of a certain group of people – the Jews, 12,000 from 12 tribes (Rev.7:4).

Some people claim that we do not know who they all are. It does not matter, God does.

The tribe of Dan is excluded (Revelation 7:6) and Manasseh who is one of the sons of Joseph takes his place.)

I do prefer to take the Lords’ Word on the matter every time though which no one can argue with nor can anyone alter or deviate with their own theologies.In Isaiah 43 He declares His Witness to be Israel/Jacob of whom would come the 12 tribes of Israel of whom will be judged by the twelve apostles who also are 12 of the 24 elders as Christ himself declared in Mathew 19: 28 when the apostles are talking to him and declare that they had left everything to follow the Master and they said, “What then will be for us?” In response to their question ….

Jesus said: “I tell you the truth, at the renewal of all things, when the Son of Man sits on his glorious throne you who have followed me will also sit on twelve thrones judging the twelve of Israel.” …and it is only 12 of the 24 elders for I do not doubt the first 12 are the Patriarchs for why would God waste the first 4000 years of scripture to dump everything into the last 20 years of consideration for fullfillment; the idea is ludicrous to say the least.

I do not doubt the Two Witnesses by these scriptures are the many under each of the twelve elders and twelve tribes of which is the first 144000 and the next 12 apostles of which come the 12 churches and the many without number come under is the next 12 elders etc….

The scriptures do not lie and the Lord says who His Witnesses are and I will not argue with Him even though Christians are looking for the return of Moses and Elijah again and I have heard the mush about their reasons and all the baggage with it …..hmmmm!

But now, this is what the Lord says—
he who created you, Jacob,
he who formed you, Israel:
“Do not fear, for I have redeemed you;
I have summoned you by name; you are mine.
2 When you pass through the waters,
I will be with you;
and when you pass through the rivers,
they will not sweep over you.
When you walk through the fire,
you will not be burned;
the flames will not set you ablaze.
3 For I am the Lord your God,
the Holy One of Israel, your Savior;
I give Egypt for your ransom,
Cush[a] and Seba in your stead.
4 Since you are precious and honored in my sight,
and because I love you,
I will give people in exchange for you,
nations in exchange for your life.
5 Do not be afraid, for I am with you;
I will bring your children from the east
and gather you from the west.
6 I will say to the north, ‘Give them up!’
and to the south, ‘Do not hold them back.’
Bring my sons from afar
and my daughters from the ends of the earth—
7 everyone who is called by my name,
whom I created for my glory,
whom I formed and made.”

You are my witnesses,” declares the Lord,
“and my servant whom I have chosen,
so that you may know and believe me
and understand that I am he.
Before me no god was formed,
nor will there be one after me.
11 I, even I, am the Lord,
and apart from me there is no savior.
12 I have revealed and saved and proclaimed—
I, and not some foreign god among you.
You are my witnesses,” declares the Lord, “that I am God.
13 Yes, and from ancient days I am he.
No one can deliver out of my hand.

I know in my head it goes 12 Patriarchs and 12 tribes and the many leaders under them whom only God knows whose heart are His and with the multiplied thousands/millions and then the 12 apostles and the 12 churches with the multiplied millions that you cannot count etc… sounds good but I would prefer to discuss those things with some Rabbis … Messianist Jew or Christians that do not separate the Two Wittnesses into two men etc…who should have died and must come back to do so etc…I have heard all the silly stories so many times. .I want to really understand scripture and what they really mean and how numbers like the 144000 are arrived at so I will wait because no way do I think the stuff I have heard for so many years repeated in all this mixed up theology should be added to scripture. Nor should the above scriptures be discarded for our own ideas. I know too little to do that anymore and I did 40 years ago but no more. It tastes like milk and not good solid meat.

Folks – I believe the true believers are the Philly Church, which is the 144,000 and option B applies. Rapture is at the 7th and last trumpet.

Please read Revelations 12:11 for the key to overcoming during the soon coming months and very few years until the end of the age.

Only the true believers (trusts in, clings to, relies on Him) shall not perish but overcome the enemy (The Beast and his minions).

We cover come by the Blood of the Lamb and our testimony. That means deliverance from oppressing demons and the work of the devil.

We will be saved from not out of by His way to “overcome”. Then, we are raptured out the last trumpet – just in time not before. We are told to hold on to the end.

“They will wage war against the Lamb, and the Lamb will triumph over them; for He is Lord of lords and King of kings–and those with Him and on His side are chosen and called [elected] and loyal and faithful followers” (Rev 17:14, AMP).

Please read Psalms 18 – there is some inside information on the coming days of Great Tribulation, deep within Psalms.

The midpoint is only months/weeks away and we must prepare as He tells the 7 Churches. Repent, get your testimony prepared in your “heart” and know/claim that the Blood of the Lamb covers you – then you will overcome and gain the victory, thank you Lord and Almighty God for your Grace and Mercy.

“Thus says the Lord God: Behold, I am against the shepherds, and I will require My sheep at their hand and cause them to cease feeding the sheep, neither shall the shepherds feed themselves any more. I will rescue My sheep from their mouths, that they may not be food for them….I will seek that which was lost and bring back that which has strayed, and I will bandage the hurt and the crippled and will strengthen the weak and the sick, but I will destroy the fat and the strong [who have become hardhearted and perverse]; I will feed them with judgment and punishment (Ezek 34:10-16, AMP)

Note that He wil feed them with judgement and punishment. So, read what is about to come upon the Churches.

See Revelation 2:14-15.

“Nevertheless, I have a few things against you: you have some people there who are clinging to the teaching of Balaam, who taught Balak to set a trap and a stumbling block before the sons of Israel, [to entice them] to eat food that had been sacrificed to idols and to practice lewdness [giving themselves up to sexual vice]. You also have some who in a similar way are clinging to the teaching of the Nicolaitans [those corrupters of the people] which thing I hate” (AMP).

See Revelations 2:20-21

“But I have this against you: that you tolerate the woman Jezebel, who calls herself a prophetess [claiming to be inspired], and who is teaching and leading astray my servants and beguiling them into practicing sexual vice and eating food sacrificed to idols. [I Kings 16:31; II Kings 9:22, 30.] I gave her time to repent, but she has no desire to repent of her immorality [symbolic of idolatry] and refuses to do so” (AMP).

Rev 3:2

“Rouse yourselves and keep awake, and strengthen and invigorate what remains and is on the point of dying; for I have not found a thing that you have done [any work of yours] meeting the requirements of My God or perfect in His sight” (AMP).

The Church is filled with crap (Ezek 4) and many of us also (Galatians 5:19-21; 1 John 4:1-6; Ephesians 4:20-32; Mark 7:12-18; 2 Peter 1:1-11) these are lists of evil spirits and oppression of the soul – you and me.

The order of the seals/trumps and vials are fairly simple, although the structure of the story is a bit convoluted.
The seven trumps are part of the 7th seal. On the 7th trump there are the 7 bowl judgements, and the 7 last plagues are part of the 7th bowl.
All are contiguous but not necessarily continuous, so there may be gaps in time, but they will follow in that order.
The misconception here is that Revelation 12 follows Revelation 11 in real time. It does not. Revelation 11 takes the reader all the way up to the second coming, just as an article on WW2 might take the reader from Pearl Harbor through the bombing of Hiroshima describing the Pacific campaign, then return to Normandy and the battle for Europe as a second article.
So Revelation 12 returns to the birth of Christ and the beginning of the Christian church (the woman) and how Satan would infiltrate it with paganism and force the true (remnant) church into the wilderness while the apostate Vatican ran the rest of Christianity into the ground for 1260 years or 42 prophetic months.
Revelation 13 describes the Holy Roman Empire and its head, the Vatican as well as the false prophet – the pope. It continues until the second coming and the judgement of the wicked.
There is no rapture on Pentecost – Jesus fulfilled that when He became the first fruit. He will return on the next festival, the Feast of Trumpets, which is when the true church will rise (some from the dead) to meet Him in the air. This will be followed by the battle of Armageddon, and then Christ will take His throne on the Day of Atonement and the wicked will be judged.
The two witnesses will be resurrected shortly before Christ’s return, probably a matter of hours and likely a biblical number such as 3-1/2. This does not happen before the woman goes into the wilderness, but over 1,500 years later.
Trying to put the Book of Revelation together in the same order it is written is a big mistake and will only lead to misinterpretation and oddball theories like this one.
🙂

James, there is an error within your statement. Revelation is not looking back (at His birth with Rev 12) – it is forward “prophetic”. The sign in the heavens written within Revelation 12 occurs during the Tribulation period.

It is a heavenly sign, just as there was a heavenly sign at the time of His birth and death.

It is the same sign given to let believers know what is coming upon them. If they are as smart as the Magi and know where to look and what the planets/constellations mean.

Funny how the Magi walked into the court to say “Where is He” -like they (religious and political leaders) should have been watching, understood, and welcomed the King.

Funny how Peter had to tell those gathered laughing at the demonstration of the Holy Spirit/speaking in tongue, reminding the “wise” of the heavenly sign written by Joel that day. The sign of the moon turning to blood and sun sackcloth – that occurred on the Day of the Cross!

It is no wonder but a realty – that so many “bible scholars” did not know or see or deny – that there was a sign in the heavens of Rev 12 above them on September 29, 2011 (Feasts of Trumpets no less). Meaning – with a great sounding proclamation in the sky that He is coming soon, the end of the age is near and all that is written within Rev 12 and other chpaters is about to come to pass. Those bible scholars are to busy making profit on the Word and feading themselves.

Watch Bethlehem Star to understand the configuration of planets, meaning and application to Hebrew Feast Days which came together on those days and on display. Then you can download the software (free from Stellarium.com), plug in the dates and see it.

It is clear – September 29, 2011 the sign in the heavens recorded in Rev 12 was above us.

You are correct that the book is not written in chapter/verse order. Within chapters there are separate events. It was written so the “wise” would not understand.

Get ready for a new Pope, new world currency system in the coming weeks/months, because we are well within the 7 years of Tribulation.

DJ,
I checked out the sky on 9/29/11 using the program that came with my telescope. The new moon and Venus were in the constellation Virgo but Jupiter was on the other side of the sky. There is nothing unusual with this situation. The date of the Feast of Trumpets is totally irrelevant since the planets move so slowly Venus was in Virgo for over a month, not just the 29th. But if you are right, the woman in rev12 must now be giving birth to a male child who will be persecuted by Satan and will ascend to the father etc. Where is all that happening? Who is the child? Who is the woman – the planet Venus?
And do you really believe we are only months away from a world currency system. Shouldn’t that be in the news? Are we about to give up our dollars? For what? Did congress pass a bill I haven’t heard of?
Sounds like you’re a “left-behinder” – are you expecting an Antichrist dictator to control this new world banking system? Are there chips involved?
I’d like to know more of the story, especially if we are already in the tribulation. That way I can follow along with the news stories to recognize prophetic fulfillment. So far all you’ve shown us is a rather common and unimpressive night sky that happened to fall on a Jewish festival, and rather sloppily at that.
Please fill us in!

Marianne
see if this helps your understanding of revelation twelve, and why the woman is mentioned twice. The first description (12:1-6) Is a description of Israel from the Old testament on to the new testament, and then Jumps to the end times. this 1260 days are literal days in the tribulation. The second part of revelation 12:7-17 describes the time between The first advent of Christ, and that 1260 literal days, meaning that the “time,times, and half a time” is 1260 years from 688-1948, with the final attack being the attacks of hitler and stalin of the jews, which was swallowed up by the earth in the form of a world war, which destroyed Germany, and weekened communist aggression towards Jewish people. What is it that communist factions have been most vehemently attacking since world war 2? Christianity.

I Cannot get into details now, but what I have been working on lately is how these events unfold, and your post is very timely. I have been working on an alternate timeline that puts the first four trumpets within the sixth seal, and makes the sixth seal a pretrib event, thus the rapture within the sixth seal a pre tribulation rapture. This means that the 1260 days of Rev 12:6 are the first 1260 days of the final seven years, and is when the two witnesses are witnessing. Thus trumpets 5,6 occur in the first 3.5 years of the tribulation, as well as the sixth bowl lining up with the sixth trumpet.

It is a very different approach, but one I am exploring, because of the similarities in the sixth seal and first four trumpets to astronomical events such as a meteor strike, as well as the similarity between the sixth bowl, and sixth trumpet, involving the Euphrates. I am not sure it will lead to definitve conclusions yet. Of note in this, is how the three “sixes” allign, the sixth seal marks the beginning of the Ac rule, while the others are at he end of his rule. The only contradiction I have found so far, is the abomination of desolation as described in Matthew 24, seems to occur before the sixth seal? which may not be a contradiction at all? Its hard to plot a new timeline, when you have all your previous timelines swaying your decisions. This timeline leaves all the 7’s to the wrath of God, seventh seal, seventh bowl, seventh trumpet, which culminate in the seven plagues, of revelation 15, the “last” of God’s wrath.

Well Dru,
I think you have fallen into a common trap I mention in a lower reply. That is trying to connect every verse in the bible with every other verse that uses the same or similar terminology. Everyone seems to do it and they all come up with outrageous conclusions, in my opinion.
To me, the story must be logical, biblical and plausible. And all the pieces must fit together in the end. And forget about numerology. The bible is not a sudoku puzzle.
Your 1260 year timeline makes no sense. It is the time that the first beast of Revelation is allowed to rule and what causes the church (whore of Babylon) to become corrupt. History tells us that this happened during the Holy Roman Empire from 538 to 1798. And the second beast came out of the first one, looking like a lamb (Christ-like) but being blasphemous (apostate -whore-like). This was the Vatican which still controls 75% of all Christians today. Who are your beasts and how did they fulfill all of Revelation 13? How do they relate to the apostate church of rev17-18?
Forget the modern Jews, they are not going to be the bride of Christ. And forget the Catholic church, they won’t be either. The Book of Revelation is trying to tell us to prepare for the marriage, not what Hitler or Stalin are going to do before Christ’s return.
You are trying hard to connect words and phrases here but you have lost sight of the big picture.
I was an engineer for a while and I still think like one. The bible is like a schematic for the return of Christ. This is the only thing that matters, and what will happen when He gets here. You are trying to build something from a bunch of parts – pieces from the bible rather than from Radio Shack, but it is the same principle. Give me enough parts and I assemble a TV or a computer or a clock radio (actually more like a missile or gun system). Someone else with the same pile of parts might make a pretty sculpture with all the capacitors and resistors grouped together, but if you try to fire it up nothing will happen.
I’m afraid you have all the parts but you can’t read the schematic and you don’t even know what you are trying to build. What you need to do is read the Book of Revelation backwards. Start with the final product, then reverse engineer the book from that point. This is exactly what I have done and it helped me immensely.
Perhaps I could put it into an article for Marianne to post and maybe it would help some of you to get a better grasp on the prophecy.

James,
You say not to play the numerology game, yet you do so yourself (538-1798)?? As for building things out of parts and pieces, I believe it is quite the opposite, and takes into account all of it, from Genesis 1:1- Rev. 22:21.

That being said, this is just an exploration for me, seeing as WE were not given a “schematic” of the bible, and where its bits go together. For all we know, BOTH of our interpretations are just “pretty sculptures”. But neither will know until we assemble it. You may well just have a clock radio, and not the actual “weapons system”. Generally speaking though, I have found these explorations quite fruitful though, because I find the piece that does not fit that way, and must go back and reassemble the picture.

The one piece that I have found that does not fit in your theory is that you use the 2300 days of daniel to arrive at this 1798 date. This 2300 days had a clear fulfillment during the intertestamental period, and cannot refer to years as the Language used within that passage, can ONLY refer to days. Look it up in strong’s if you do not believe me! Whereas the language used in Daniel 12, on which I base my theories on, can refer to days, or time periods.

Ask yourself this question also. Look at the relationships of the birth year of Jacob, David’s kingdoms birth, and Jesus’ birth year. These are all the “Mornings” of Millenial days. Israel, as a people born, Israel as a Kingdom being born, and The Messiah being born. Have you fit these in your timeline? Jesus said in three days I will rebuild this temple, Yes this Had a near fulfillment in his death and resurrection, but it also has may refer to millenial days. He said those words early in his ministry, and the start of that third day is fast approaching.

So yes, I agree with your criticism, but I could turn it around on your theories also. It is when we admit that we can’t figure it out, that he reveals it to us. Just a thought to consider, before you suffer another “great dissappointment”. The 2300 days, is the piece that doesn’t fit. I dismiss all timelines that try to use this in reference to years. You should too.! God bless.

The first is by no means the holy roman empire, since at that time it was already overrun by muslims. And never had it authority over every tribe and nation and tongue. Besides that it reigns forty two months, which are 1260 literal days.

As we say in Australia, your last post Marianne, is a bit of a dogs breakfast.
My comment on the 144000.
Definitely 12000 from each tribe. Can not be fulfiled untill the 12 tribes are united in Jerusalem, after their gathering. They are purified, receive the name of G-D in their forehead, etc. Rev 14 v 4
My comment on the Temple.
Rev 11 v 1 and verse 19. My considered opinion is that a Temple which is built to continue the Mosaic system of sacrifice, done away with at the death of the saviour will not be built, or if so it will be rejected by the Lord. The two mentions of Temple is verified with verse 19, as being in heaven.
Not all who profess to be christians will be saved.
The old and new testament says that to be saved one must be of the seed of Abrahem. Galatians chp 3 v 26,27,28,29. Romans chp 9 v 6,7,8.
also v 24. (An interesting chapter.) see also chp 11 v 1. Yet provision is made for those who do not make the grade. 1 Corinthians chp 15 verses 40,41,42.
The woman in Rev chp 12.
The women as the sun is symbolicaly the Church. A crown of twelve stars(apostles) the Child is the Saviour, and his Church. The red dragon is the devil, who lies in wait to destroy the Saviour and his Church. The Saviour ascended to his Father, and the Apostolic Church died out after the death of the Apostles, (the woman fled into the wilderness) The Church is to be restored in the last days Rev 14 v 6. Daniel and his stone.
Every one keeps talking about the Jews!
The tribe of Judah were given the promise that the Saviour would be born in this tribe. they remained as an entity untill they rejected their Saviour. At that time they lost their land and were dispersed through the Nations, untill the begining of their restoration in 1948. The jews are only one tribe in a total of 12, plus two Ephraim and Manassah. The majority of the lost tribes are probably christendom today. Somewhere in the north countries are the remnants of ten and a half tribes existing as a group or groups of people. A lot hinges on these people coming forth, and marching to Jerusalem to recieve their blessing.

It is important to note that according to custom the males heads of households are the only ones counted. The 144,000 are actually more than that.
Secondly, Rev 12 is a scripture having to do with the rapture but it is always overlooked as such because it is believed that the woman is Israel. When the term “caught up” is used it is the grk word “harpazo” where we get the latin word for “rapture” from.
The moon that the woman is standing on is a type of the Old Covenant but she is clothed with the sun, the New Covenant. The OC is the foundation but it has no light of its own and always pointed to a something greater. It only reflects the light of the NC. We cant get a full picture of the OC without the NC shining its light upon it.
The male child, in the grk, is nueter. It shows that it is a child with male qualities i.e. power, dominion and authority, given by God to Adam and bestowed upon the believer through Christ.
The dragon, today, is at the door of the church and as the grk says, she is being pained from within and without to get rid of the child. We see through other scriptures that the one caught up to God is also the Bride of Christ. Because of these 2 attributes, man child & Bride, comes the term “a warrior bride”. She is a threat to the dragon because she knows who she is in christ and is not afraid to wield the rod of iron in power and authority over the enemy.
The man child is caught up to God and the woman flees to the wilderness for 42 months or 3 and a half yrs, the time alloted to the anti christ.
The woman is also 1of the 2 witnesses in Rev 11. Their bodies lie in the streets for 3 and half yrs having been hunted down by the anti christ forces.
Remember that the witnesses are a body of believers, the lampstand-Rev 1, and the olive tree of which there are 2…wild or natural Rom 11. They are witnesses, martyrs in the grk, and there are 2 which fulfills the other type, by 2 or 3 witnesses is a thing established and confirmed.

I would disagree with your first statement, (in that you suggest that the 144,000 have families), and that this number is only representative of the males of these families. For within the beginning of Revelation 14:4., it clearly states otherwise;

“These are they which were not defiled, (μολύνω) with women (γυνή); for they are virgins (παρθένος) .”

“Defiled” from the above Greek being transliterated as “molynō”, (Strong’s 3435), defined as, “(1) to pollute, stain, contaminate, defile. (a) used in NT of those who have not kept themselves pure from the defilements of sin, who have soiled themselves by fornication and adultery”.

“Women” from the above Greek being transliterated as “gynē”, (Strong’s 1135), defined as, “(1) a woman of any age, whether a virgin, or married, or a widow.
(2) a wife. (a) of a betrothed woman.”

“Virgins” from the above Greek being transliterated as “parthenos”, (Strong’s 3933), defined as “(1) “a VIRGIN”. And in respects to men, “(2) a man who has abstained from all uncleanness and whoredom attendant on idolatry, and so has kept his chastity. (a) one who has never had intercourse with women.”

I am wondering as to how much clearer this could possibly be stated?

I also do not agree with your second statement either?
I do not believe that Rev.12 has anything to do with the Rapture, but “do” believe that the “woman” “is” referring to the nation Israel.
Genesis 37:9,10. would confirm this as being the case, with Joseph being the 12th. star.

I believe that the “Man Child” are the 144,000. And the “Man Child” in Greek is NOT as you say, “neuter”!
Do you think that the translators were simply arbitrary in their choice of words, simply pulling translations out of their hat?

The Greek, “ἄρρην”, transliterated as “arrēn”, (Strong’s 730), is an “adjective” and is simply defined as”(1) a Male.”
The Greek, “υἱός”, transliterated as “huios”, (Strong’s 5207), “a masculine noun” is defined in maintaining the context of the verse, as, “(1) a Son”.

If one was to associate the “term” with say God the Father speaking through a prophet, perhaps they would see a possible correlation within Isaiah 66?
Could possibly verse 5 be speaking of this 144,000 that have the testimony of Yeshua, and have been “hated by their brethren and cast out for His name sake?
5 Hear the word of the LORD, ye that tremble at his word; Your brethren that hated you, that cast you out for my name’s sake, said , Let the LORD be glorified : but he shall appear to your joy, and they shall be ashamed .

6 A voice of noise from the city, a voice from the temple, a voice of the LORD that rendereth recompence to his enemies .

7 Before she travailed , she brought forth ; before her pain came , she was delivered of a “man child”.

8 Who hath heard such a thing? who hath seen such things? Shall the earth be made to bring forth in one day? or shall a nation be born at once? for as soon as Zion travailed , she brought forth her children.

9 Shall I bring to the birth , and not cause to bring forth ? saith the LORD: shall I cause to bring forth , and shut the womb? saith thy God.

10 Rejoice ye with Jerusalem, and be glad with her, all ye that love her: rejoice for joy with her, all ye that mourn for her:

Could there not be the possibility that “Hannah” in 1 Samuel 1, (having poured out her soul before the LORD), is a foreshadowing of this event?
In that Hannah represents Israel and that her child, (Samuel) represents this 144,000? Remember Hannah’s vow that she made?

”And she vowed a vow, and said , O LORD of hosts, if thou wilt indeed look on the affliction of thine handmaid, and remember me, and not forget thine handmaid, but wilt give unto thine handmaid a man child, then I will give him unto the LORD all the days of his life, and there shall no razor come upon his head.” 1 Samuel 1:11. KJV.

Nah, lets not utilize scripture to interpret scripture. Heck You just continue to do your own thing. It’s only the word of God, right?

Signing Out.
Last Comment.

Shalom.

Oh and Marianne,
Before I go, just a small clarification on one of the things that you have written within your above post.
Above you say, “Since the feast of first fruits occurs at Pentecost”.
Though not entirely incorrect, (for Shavu’ot would indeed be the culmination of the Feast), I am concerned for those that are not aware of how this Feast was actually fulfilled by Yeshua with only understanding it in that context.
Firstfruits, (Reishit Katzir- “the beginning of the harvest”) actually starts on the following day, after the first day of unleavened bread, (Chag HaMatzot).
Reishit Katzir was the day that Yeshua was “resurrected”, (Nissan 17th.) and therefore fulfilled that Feast by being the “Firstfruits”.

20 But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept .
21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.
22 For as in Adam all die , even so in Christ shall all be made alive .
23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ’s at his coming.

a..
You need to splainz something here:
You say,:
I believe that the “Man Child” are the 144,000. And the “Man Child” in Greek is NOT as you say, “neuter”!
Do you think that the translators were simply arbitrary in their choice of words, simply pulling translations out of their hat?
The Greek, “ἄρρην”, transliterated as “arrēn”, (Strong’s 730), is an “adjective” and is simply defined as”(1) a Male.”

If the correct translation is “1 male” how do you get that to mean 144,000?
And it says the child was caught up to God was to rule all nations with an (1) iron rod (something it says it will do a few chapters later). So in the millennium we will all be ruled by 144,000 men with 144,000 rods of iron?
And so Satan tries to devour the 144,000 as soon as they are born. Did this already happen in Israel, assuming they are already born? But wait, most of them are from the lost tribes, so they can’t all be from Israel or even Jewish. In fact none of them can be Jewish, since the Jews do not have the testimony of Jesus Christ, so they cannot be sealed.
The woman is clearly a church, as it always is in prophecy, and we see later in Revelation that there are two women – an apostate church and the true church – the bride of Christ. In fact the whole theme of the Book of Revelation is the return of Jesus to marry His bride. It is telling us the story of the true church, from Judaism into Christianity. It tells haw Satan infiltrated and persecuted the true church and filled the apostate church with pagan practices and holidays like Christmas and Easter. This is “Babylon” which will be destroyed.
As for the 144,000, it sounds like God is hand-picking His temple servants for the millennium. They are pure and uncorrupted (virgins) which means they are from the true church and are not part of the “whore of Babylon” church.
Rev 7:14 -15
And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.
Therefore are they before the throne of God, and serve him day and night in his temple: and he that sitteth on the throne shall dwell among them.
Note that they come out of the great tribulation, therefore they are not raptured. So if God’s super-elect must go thru the tribulation, what makes anyone think the rest of us will be taken up and spared from it?

Trying to link this prophecy to Joseph and Hannah just because similar phrases are used only leads to confusion. You might as well try to link every event in the Old Testament to the Book of Revelation. The whole bible isn’t going to repeat itself in the end times. The Book of Revelation is a relatively simply story, except it is told in a convoluted fashion with much symbolism and is therefore difficult to unravel. And while you can often make words and phrases seem to jive, they don’t lead to a logical conclusion, just a bunch of unexplainable random events.
This is the problem I have with most prophetic interpretations. There is a whole lot of “what” but very little “why?”

So being with a woman defiles a man?? This isn’t common sense so the conclusion is, this passage is not saying what you think it says on the surface. The whole bible is a parable filled with esoteric (hidden) speech. Think about it. Who in there right mind, would cast billions of their brothers and sisters into eternal suffering because words on a page told them to?

Do the math, words on a page cause tunnel vision.

“The serpent was more subtle than any other beast of the field…”

Moses’ staff symbolizes a writing utensil and the serpents the staff turned into when he cast it before Pharaoh are symbolic of words on a page.

Moses came from Egypt where they understood the power of words on a page when God is attached to them. Just look at an Obelisk then read Matthew 16:19. An Obelisk is a pen pointing at the sky

I just went to your site, (by clicking on your Gravatar) and read the first couple of paragraphs of a piece you wrote titled, “Math Logic Exposes the Abomination of Desolation.” I stopped when I got to the second paragraph where you say, “According to the church’s own doctrine, the sacrifice of Christ is desolate and worthless.”

You are simply a “Tare”, and are spreading your lies amongst Sheep.
Too many of the likes of you come to this site now, and that is one of the reasons why I have decided to leave.
You can not understand scripture because you are not of the Spirit!
That would be the plain and simple reason why what you say, makes no sense.

Accept Yeshua’s sacrifice, or suffer the consequences!
The choice is yours.

Your response is 100% opposite of 1 Corinthians 13…….All I’m saying is do the math. Woman represents churches therefore the 144,000 are not defiled with the false image of God put forth in church doctrine. Again, do the math.

“Most will be lost” = Victory in Jesus?

“Most will be lost” = Good news?

“Most will be lost” = Faith in Christ?

1 Corinthians 13 = “Most will be lost and or suffer alive in hell for eternity?”

Besides the illegal sexual practices like fornication, lying with a woman during her days and probably more, there are two more verses that make me wonder.
1. Before Moses was called up onto the mountain, no man was allowed to come near his wife.
2. David and his men were allowed to eat of the shew-bread after he confirmed that he and his men hadn’t been with their wives for several days.

As a (John 3:1-7) “Born Again” Bible teacher in the service for the LORD for many, many years now, from time to time, I come back to read some of the posts on this site, and (at times) my heart is hurt, because (at times), there are many wrong and non-Biblical responses given (by some of the bloggers) to valid questions; and as I read, there is a sense of one frustration after another, as many are left disheartened; and I find myself needing to inject a response now and then, to try to help those that will listen and learn.

So, if you will bear with me, let me make a “starting statement” that those that call themselves Christians need to understand very clearly; it comes directly from JESUS Himself, as He was clarifying “two intensely important” things for every human being to understand; He made the comments to the Jewish Pharisee, Nicodemus (in John 3:1-7); (1) UNLESS you are BORN AGAIN, you cannot “see” the “Kingdom of God.” In the correct teaching of this first statement, the words to key in on, are the words “see” which in the NT Greek doesn’t not mean “human vision;” it relates to the “understanding of the human mind;” and the “Kingdom of God,” which relates not to a Kingship or an actual Kingdom; it relates to the “Holy Scriptures of God.” If you do a study on the original words, look up the correct verbiage context used in the original Greek, then make the correct translation from Greek to English; thus finally, the verse would correctly read, “UNLESS you (personally) are BORN AGAIN, you cannot “understand” the “Holy Word of God”… or, the “Holy Scriptures of God”…or, in today’s modern vernacular, “the Holy Bible of God.”
The next statement is extremely intertwined with the first statement by JESUS, and ties it all together for us; JESUS says, (2) UNLESS one is “born of WATER” and the “(HOLY) SPIRIT,” you cannot “enter” the “Kingdom of God.” Here is where people stumble badly … “born of water” IS NOT a reference to infant (or) water Baptism; this is the same wording that JESUS used in the “Lady at the Well” account in John 4:7-14. He asked her for a drink of “WATER” in Godly terms, and she replied about “water” in Human terms; which was followed by JESUS clarifying that if she only knew WHO it was that was conversing with her in all this, that she would have asked HIM for that “WATER,” and He would have given it to her (freely).

He goes on to tell her that with her “water” she will (indeed) thirst again; but with His “WATER”… it would “well up” as a spring of “LIVING WATER” in her. You can easily see then, that the “WATER”… in John 3 is the very same “WATER”… as in John 4. We can read in John 4 that that “WATER” that JESUS is speaking about is not H2O; thus, also not infant (or) water Baptism; so what is it? It is the “Washing/Cleansing” by the WORD of God (this WORD of God also claims to be the ETERNAL and LIVING WATER); and “WHO” (not, what) is the WORD of God? The answer to that is found in (John 1:1-5 and Revelation 19:11-13); the [ETERNAL and LIVING WATER] and also the [KING of Kings and LORD of Lords] … and thus the “WORD of God;” the One that “cleanses us from ALL unrighteousness, is JESUS, the Christ of God!

So the culmination of the “two intensely important” things that JESUS was telling Nicodemus was that “UNLESS you (any human being) are “Born Again,” you cannot “understand the Bible correctly; and, because you can’t understand the Bible correctly, you won’t be able to decipher God’s Truth correctly, and by not being able to decipher God’s Truth correctly, a person can’t become “convicted of their sins by the Holy Spirit, and by not being able to become “convicted of their sins by the Holy Spirit, you can’t possibly “repent” of your sins against God; and if you don’t “repent” of your sins against God; you will DIE in your sins; and if you DIE in your sins; you end up in Hell; thus tying together the “two intensely important” things, that “UNLESS you (any human being) are “born again” of the “WATER” (By JESUS) and the “(HOLY) SPIRIT,” you cannot “enter” (into) the “Kingdom of God;” here (unlike the first statement) the “Kingdom of God;” refers to the actual House of God (Heaven); so, becoming “Born Again” allows you to “rightly divide (and teach) the word of God” (aka: understand the Holy Scriptures of God); and, it will also allow you to “enter into Heaven” when you die. Knowing the TRUTH of God, and getting to Heaven isn’t a guessing game; you either know you’re going, or you need to do so today; tomorrow is promised to no one; and there are no do-overs AFTER death; the Egyptian pagan teaching of Purgatory is both a heresy and un-Biblical; that is the REAL meaning of John 3:1-7.

It you will remember the Last Supper account, JESUS pronounced the apostles to be “clean”… that was because they had walked with Him for 3 years, and now they knew God’s Truth; but it wasn’t until Pentecost, that the (Holy) Spirit, in the form of a “Mighty Rushing Wind” came over them in the upper room, and “tongue-like fire” appeared above them; from “ABOVE,” from “GOD.” Now read in John 3:1-7, where Jesus tells Nicodemus about the “WIND,” that it comes and goes where it pleases. We can “feel its effects,” (a circumcised sinful heart; and afterwards, a changed life). But just as John the Baptizer said of Jesus; I (John) baptize you with “water” (a sign to all other people around you, that you are a NOW a disciple of Christ; that is all Baptism is, A SIGN, it does not cleanse you of ANY of your sins; only the Blood of Christ can do that.
The Bible says that when you are “Born Again,” the Holy Spirit (who is also God), comes to “live inside you” permanently; bringing to bear the Truth of God that states, all those that are “of God” (hear His voice, and God teaches them as He sees fit for His Kingdom); that isn’t just Bible talk, God said that; so if you aren’t “Born Again” it would actually be better NOT TO COMMENT, than to comment in error; because God says that He will deal HARSHLY with those people who attempt to be teachers, when that were not chosen to be one; remember Paul’s words from God; “Some were brought up to be apostles, some pastors, some teachers, and some evangelists (notice he didn’t say “EVERYONE” was … he said SOME). If you aren’t “Born Again,” do not mislead people, because you will have to answer for it, to God Himself. That is why I take this very seriously; I will give an account for my own stuff, I certainly don’t want to answer for someone else’s misleading; because they in turn, will have listened to you, and also misled others; and thus your own sins will increase as well.

Also, contrary to many TV or “large congregational personalities” trying to “puff themselves up in the sight of man,” no one (post-John the apostle), should claim to be an apostle; that is blasphemous to God; a true apostle is one who is taught “personally” by God (Jesus); all the original 12 went through that procedure, even though one betrayed Jesus, and ended up losing his eternal Soul (Judas Iscariot); then, Mathias was “chosen” by the apostles to replace Judas; and since he had known Jesus, heard Jesus, and followed Him as a disciple (a follower), God allowed Mathias to be “selected” to replace Judas; by contrast (to Mathias); Paul was taught (personally, one-on-one) by the Risen and Glorified Jesus after the incident in Damascus, after the Jews in Damascus heard of Paul’s conversion (becoming Born Again) and they tried to kill him; Paul was still a Jew after becoming Born Again; but now (being Born Again) made Paul a Messianic Jew. Paul was taught (by God/Jesus) in the wilderness of Southwestern Arabia, and the deserts of Midian (around Mt, Horeb; aka: Mt. Sinai) for a period of (roughly) 7 to 9 years.

One of the first teachings Paul made known after he was taught by God (Jesus), and his own ministry took off, is found in the Book to the Thessalonians; it was the teaching of the “future” Rapture of the Bride church (the Bride church in the Bible are ONLY those people that are “Born Again;” and are thus referred to by God, as His “saints” (no, not canonized ones; that is a ritual by one religion, and that too is un-Biblical); God chooses who will or will not be “saints”… and His requirements for that position is becoming Born Again,” not performing 3 miracles (which dead people cannot do); the Bible says, “The dead are dead, and they have nothing to do with the living anymore;” the deceased cannot hear you, speak to you, intervene for you, or intercede before God for you; ONLY CHRIST can do that, the Bible says; He is our ONLY legal advocate between God and man. So, who are all those people that (supposedly) come back from the dead to (supposedly) appear to humans? The Bible teaches us that they are Demons; demons that once knew those people, and they come to mislead other people. God said, “It is appointed (to every man and woman) “once” to die, “then” (or, “immediately”), the judgment (either Heaven-bound, or to points South).

So, to wrap this “Born Again” mandate up; when you are “Washed by the WORD” (both the Truth of God and the Blood of Christ), you are both CLEAN and FREE, and now you can go on to teach others the Truth of God; because the Truth is NOW in you, NOT BEFORE; and certainly not just because one might think they can decipher and rightly divide the Holy Scriptures on their own; that is not Biblical; God says, that being “Born Again” is the key. So my comment to people would be, if you are not currently “Born Again,” (and I just explained what that meant); you certainly shouldn’t be trying to tell “others” about what the Bible says or means, because according to JESUS, you are not QUALIFIED to do so; those are His words, not mine.

MichaelHullmes333 said: So being with a woman defiles a man?? This isn’t common sense so the conclusion is this passage is not saying what you think it says on the surface. The whole bible is a parable filled with esoteric (hidden) speech. Think about it. Who in their right mind would cast billions of their brothers and sisters into eternal suffering because words on a page told them to? Do the math, words on a page cause tunnel vision.

My Response: Above is a perfect example of what I’ve been talking about; the statement (above) is blatantly fraudulent, and an insult in the face of God. To say that the Bible, the very one that God the Holy Spirit said was (paraphrasing here) “Dictated directly into the minds of the Holy Men of God, by Me, the Holy Spirit;” or, that the whole Bible is parable-filled, with esoteric (hidden) speech is outrageous, blasphemous, and shows a TOTAL LACK of any Biblical knowledge. The Holy Spirit does not speak, write, or dictate in riddles, or esoteric (hidden) speech; God says what He means, and means what He says; there is no ambiguity with God. What this passage DOES MEAN is that being with a woman DOES DEFILE a man, and vice-versa. When a woman loses he virginity outside of marriage, she is said to have been defiled; but, in this passage, God the Holy Spirit is telling us that the meaning of the passage about the 144,000, is first, about 12,000 (MEN ONLY) from each of the twelve tribes of Israel; not a Gentile in the group; and two, that their (Jewish) “non-defiled with women status” relates to them ALL BEING VIRGINS; or another way to address them is to be (as) “First Fruits” to God; aka: a Holy Offering!

MichaelHullmes333 said: “The serpent was more subtle than any other beast of the field.” Moses’ staff symbolizes a writing utensil and the serpent is what the staff turned into when he cast it before Pharaoh, and are symbolic of words on a page.

My Response: This is a perfect example of what I’ve been talking about, AGAIN; that is absolutely and atrociously false; the “SERPENT simply relates to “SIN” (as in Satan, the original father of all sin); the STAFF (which was not Moses’ Staff, it was just a prepared by Moses, staff) relates to “The (Wooden) Cross of Christ.” It was a “type and shadow of things to come in the “future.” When Jesus was hung on the (Wooden) Cross, ALL of mankind’s “SINS” were poured out on Him; and ANYONE that “looks to Him” (that calls upon His name; that places their entire trust in Him, by faith) for Salvation, the Bible says; WILL FIND IT. Just like those Israelites back then, they couldn’t just be “around” the Serpent on the Staff; they had to physically “look at it” to be made well and not die; so it is the same with Salvation; it comes from becoming “Born Again”… you can’t just say you are; and you can’t just be around Jesus; it is a MANDATE from Jesus (John 3:1-7); also, you can’t refuse to do it and still get into Heaven; it involves a “physical” commitment on your part; you MUST CONFESS YOUR OWN SINS (directly to) God the Father, and ask for HIS FORGIVENESS; not to a priest , pastor, or minister; they can’t absolve you of ANY SIN, ONLY GOD can; and you have to do it with your own mouth (sponsors can’t “confess your sins” for you, [you’re a baby]; or, on your behalf, that’s un-Biblical – Romans 10:1-17); And finally, you must believe BY FAITH with your own heart (sponsors can’t “believe” for you; or, on your behalf, that’s un-Biblical – Romans 10:1-17) … that you are Saved. Once you decide to make “that physical and spiritual commitment,” and accept God’s Salvation through His Son Jesus, which is GOD’s (FREE) Gift of Grace; and that NOT of yourselves, (not by “Your Works,” lest any man, or woman boast); then you are truly Born Again, and Heaven-bound; guaranteed (100%) by God and His Word.

MichaelHullmes333 said: Moses came from Egypt where they understood the power of words on a page when God is attached to them. Just look at an Obelisk then read Matthew 16:19. An Obelisk is a pen pointing at the sky.

My Response: That is ABSOLUTELY UNBELIEVABLE. (A) Moses came from Egypt where they understood the power of words on a page when “God” is attached to them; REALLY? Egypt believed in the REAL and ONLY GOD; of Abraham Isaac, and Jacob? … and (B) I remember reading in the Bible, that the King (the Pharaoh of the Lower Kingdom) of Egypt (Thutmosis III), said to Moses and Aaron (around 1447-1450 BC); when they brought “God’s Message to release His people” to the King (the Pharaoh) … the following words recorded in the Bible, “Who is this GOD, that I (Great Egypt) should be mindful of?”… That sure doesn’t sound like someone that understood the power of words on a page when “God” is attached to them … at least to me it doesn’t.

MichaelHullmes333 said: Just look at an Obelisk then read Matthew 16:19. An Obelisk is a pen pointing at the sky.

My Response: AGAIN, that is ABSOLUTELY UNBELIEVABLE. The Obelisk is the modern wording for the very Ancient Pole of Ashtoreth; the very ones worshipped by the Dagon-worshipping (Satan-worshipping) pagans of ancient Sumer (later ancient Babylon); and the areas of Togarmah, then the lands of the ancient phallic-worshipping Askenazi-Sycthians; today the Illuminati/Freemason (pagan-New World Order/New Age) City of (Biblical) New Babylon (Astana, Kazakhstan).

As for the comments on the Obelisks; they are NOT a pen pointing at the sky … now that is truly esoteric (hidden) speech. The three largest Obelisks (today) are the “Rothschild Obelisk” in the Illuminati/Freemason City of London (aka: the Rothschild Square Mile). The Rothschild; they that will remain as the Power of, and simultaneously are, the Red-Scarlet Beast that rules over (and will remain so) during the reign of the UN-New World Order. Rothschild means Red-Shield: or, Scarlet-Shield. Then, the Washington Monument; in the Illuminati/Freemason City of Washington, DC; the City that will bring forth the Antichrist (aka: The Revived Fascist/Roman Empire); and finally, the Vatican Obelisk, located in the center of Vatican Square; in the Illuminati/Freemason City of Rome (aka: the Home of the False Prophet that will move its Headquarters from Rome to Jerusalem soon, because God is going to fully destroy her).

The Obelisk is now, and always will be, totally phallic, whether in Ancient Sumer, ancient Babylon, ancient Sycthia, or in London, Washington, DC, or the Vatican. The meaning is clear and the same; and if it is anything else (which its not), it would be more of a blasphemous “finger” aimed at God by these very nefarious people and groups.

MichaelHullmes333 said: 6 days = 144 hours (and) 6,000 days = 144,000 hours. Do the math and figure out the rest … (?????)
MichaelHullmes333 said this on April 15, 2012 at 3:01 am …

My Response: ABSOLUTELY UNBELIEVABLE; people are known to say the “craziest things” at 3:01 a.m. First, the entire Bible was written for Jews, by Jews, and about Jews; not a Gentile in the group (except for Luke); and Salvation is of the Jews (through Jesus, the Christ, a Jew); and the Scriptures of Salvation are to go to the Jews first, then the Gentiles; anyone that has a problem with that has to take it up with God, and He changes not; He is the same yesterday, today, and forever. The entire Bible (OT and NT) is to be seen through Jewish eyes, not western civilization Gentile eyes. So in Bible discernment; a Jewish day is 24 hours; a Jewish month is 30 days; and a Jewish year is 30 x 12 = 360 days. That is why in the Book of Daniel, 12:11-12, it says, “from the time the regular sacrifice (the soon coming Jewish Mosaic Law “animal sacrifice” that will be going on, on the Temple Mount) is abolished, and the abomination of desolation (the erection of the Statue that the False Prophet that will put up [of the Antichrist] on the Temple Mount) is setup, will be 1,290 days; yet in the Book of Revelation, it says that the 7 year Tribulation Period is made of 2 equal (3-1/2 years; or, 1,260 days each); so, do we have an error? No. It simply means, that “30 days before” the Mid-Tribulation occurs, the animal sacrifices will be done away with by the Antichrist, so that he can claim to be God to the Jews, and have his statue erected and himself worshipped; so, if you take the 1,260 days + “30 days before,” you get 1,290 days; you didn’t add any time, from 1,260 to 1,290, you simply clarified it.

Then, it ends with, “blessed is he that waits and attains to the 1,335 days; so again, we get the exact time given by God when the Antichrist statue will be erected for worship by the Vatican on the Temple Mount which is 1,290 days (1,260 + 30 days before the Mid-T).

Then, 30 days later (at 1,260 days perfectly centered from the beginning, and from the end, to the middle), the personage that will be the Antichrist will be killed and die; but immediately after, God will allow Satan to resurrect that world leader’s body and possess it; then that person’s body (fully possessed by Satan), will rule in that capacity for 42 months (or, 42 x 30 = 1,260 days).

The whole Tribulation Period is 7 years (2,520 days). At the end of the first 1,260 days, the AC is killed and resurrected; at the end of the second 1,260 days, Jesus comes at Armageddon. So although we can’t know the exact day when the Rapture will occur, because only God knows; the Second Coming can be known to the very day, by the people that will turn to God during the Tribulation Period. They will be captured by the New World Order forces; interned in the UN-US-FEMA Camps, then beheaded as the Bible says. They will be able to know exactly, because whether you say Rapture happens + 2,520 days; or, you see the AC person get killed and resurrected + 1,260 days, you can still know exactly. The Rapture occurs in the Air (in the clouds, worldwide); the Second Coming occurs on the ground (on terra-firma, in Jerusalem, on the Mt. of Olives). In the Rapture, the Bride church goes to meet Jesus, and goes “up, through the clouds;” in the Second Coming, the Bride church comes down with Jesus, and comes down “down through the clouds.”

At the end of the 1,290 days (1,260 +30) + for 45 days afterwards, Jesus will be remodeling the Earth for His Millennial Kingdom; he will completely clean up the Air, Water, and Atmosphere; he will set His Bride Church (immortal saints) to rule over the nations; then just before it all goes into full gear, Jesus will gather the nations and judge them; the goats on his left (will be killed and sent to Hades, which is not Hell) to await the GWT judgment (Rev. 201:1-15); then, they will ALL be tossed into the Lake of Fire (Hell, for eternity); the sheep on His right will enter into the Millennial Kingdom for 1,000 years. Finally, the Bible is not solved by Math or Science; but, it is easily discerned by Godly knowledge. I hope in some way that my responses were helpful to someone…

I can only presume that you must still stinging from a post on another issue that I commented on, where you were very much misleading not only the person that was trying to get correct Biblical answers, but other people that come to this site to try interact and sharpen one another as they say.

Your sarcasm was duly noted, although my answers are steeped in Biblical truth and Godly knowledge; I hope my comment to you was duly noted as well…

Just meant to be humorous. Sorry if I offended any loyal followers of the book series and movies. I bought into it 20 years ago. Still have a copy if the movie. Did some more studying and I guess you could say I could say I found a better truth.
So in my mind I just find the story line a bit silly and far fetched. I forgot how many people still follow it as gospel truth.
Well, if it ever happens, I’ll be ready anyway. If it doesn’t, a lot of people will be left hanging.Time will tell.

James Giordano said: “Well, if it ever happens, I’ll be ready anyway.”

You’re dead wrong buddy; if you don’t know about the tons of Biblical evidence for the Rapture, in both the OT and NT, such that you are only left with a sarcastic outlook on the Truth of God; then how can you possibly be ready for something you neither know about, believe in, or are educated on … that’s like me saying, “Well I don’t believe what they were trying to teach me in Brain Surgery Class, but what the heck, as long as I have my brother’s old cap and gown, I should be ready?” For what? Certainly not to graduate from Brain Surgery School. The cap and gown doesn’t make you ready; knowing “the facts” does; so when it happens, and it will [very soon I might add]; don’t be surprised when you are the one “Left Behind.” God said it; and that is His Truth; now, should people believe what God says, or what James believes?

According to Dr. Jack Van Impe, who co-wrote the screenplay for the movie, the rapture will occur at the beginning of the (false) 7-year tribulation, the day before the antichrist takes over the world/UN or whatever.
So the New World Order (false) will have to be in effect by that time, and certainly it will take some time to bring that into reality. After all, it took the EU over 50 years to come together and become official.
I’m sure the signs will be all over the internet (especially YouTube) and there will be no mistaking that the prophecy is being fulfilled. With the popularity of the books/movies, every other Christian out there will be buzzing with the news.
Now I’ve heard some theories that claim the rapture will occur 7 years before the tribulation but of course no one really knows for sure.
And I don’t think believing in the rapture is a requirement for being raptured. If a person is saved by the blood of Christ, he should qualify for the rapture. People who don’t understand every single scripture in the bible should not be excluded. If so almost no-one will make it.
Besides, I’m not afraid of any stinking tribulation. Bring on the enemies of Christ and I will face them head on and defend my saviour. I will be happy to die for Jesus, since I will wake up an instant later with a whole new resurrected body. So who needs to be raptured? Too scared to fight for your Lord?
I’m not, so bring on the antichrist.
Who is with me?
Well, I think you will all be with me, only you’ll all be a lot more disappointed than I will be.

I personally am preparing to be here for the Great Tribulation…and not because I got left behind….this is just my theory/opinion. Also, we are in the final 7 years now….like I said from the dream the Lord gave me, nothing or no one could ever convince me otherwise. And..it also makes more sense to me IF the “covenant with many” was not “all over the internet and you tube”…as satan would not want us to know how close we are because he wants Christians to think they got all the time in the world ….and go about merrying, etc..

Matthew 24:3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? And what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?

Matthew 24:4-8 – And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you. For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ, and shall deceive many. And ye shall hear of wars and rumors of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass but the end is not yet. For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilence, and earthquakes,in divers places. All these are the beginnings of sorrows.

Matthew 24:9-14- Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my names sake. And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another. And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many. And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall was cold. But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved. And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

Matthew 24:15-22 – When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place (whoso readeth, let him understand) then let them which be in Judea flee into the mountains: let him which is on the housetop not come down to take anything out of his house: neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes. And woe unto them that are with child, and to them what give suck in those days! But pray ye that your flight be not in winter, neither on the Sabbath day: for then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be. And except those days be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elects sake those days shall be shortened.

Matthew 24:27-28 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. For whereso ever the carcase is, there will be the eagles be gathered together.

Matthew 24:29-31- Immediately after the tribulation of those days of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken. And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet and they shall gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Matthew 13:30 Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn

Matthew 13:40-43 As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world. The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity, and shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth. Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father.

Matthew 24:37-41: But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered the ark, and knew not until the flood came, and took them all away: so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left. Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

Genesis 7:23 And every living substance was destroyed which was upon the face of the ground, both man, and cattle, and the creeping things, and the fowl of the heaven; and they were destroyed from the earth: and Noah only remained alive, and they that were with him in the ark.

Matthew 13:47-50 Again, the kingdom of heaven is like unto a net, that was cast into the sea, and gathered of every kind: which, when it was full, they drew to shore, and sat down, and gathered the good into vessels, but cast the bad away. So shall it be at the end of the world: the angels shall come forth, and sever the wicked from among the just, and shall cast them into the furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.

Mark 13:14-20 – But when ye shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing where it ought not, (let him that readeth understand) then let them that be in Judea flee to the mountains: and let him that is on the housetop not go down into the house, neither enter therein, to take any thing out of his house: and let him that is in the field not turn back again for to take up his garment. But woe to them that are with child and to them that give suck in those days! And pray ye that your flight be not in the winter. For in those days shall affliction, such as was not from the beginning of creation which God created unto this time, neither shall be. And except that the Lord had shortened those days, no flesh should be saved: but for the elects’ sake, whom he hath chose, he that shortened the days.

Mark 13:24-27 – But in those days after the tribulation , the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars of heaven shall fall, and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken. And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory. And then shall he send his angels, and gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost parts of the earth to the uttermost parts of heaven.

Luke 17:26-30 And as it was in the days of Noe, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man. They did eat, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, and the flood came and destroyed them all. Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded; but the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all. Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.

Luke 17: 33-36 Whosoever shall seek to save his life shall lose it, and whosoever shall lose his life shall preserve it. I tell you, in that night there shall be two men in one bed, the one shall be taken, and the other shall be left. Two women shall be grinding together, the one shall be taken, and the other left. Two men shall be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

1 Corinthians 15:20-23 But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept. For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead. For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ’s at his coming.

1 Thessalonians 4:15-17 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain/left unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. For the Lord himself shall descent from heaven with a shout with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first; then we which are alive and remain/left shall be caught up together with them in the cloud to meet the Lord in the air; and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

1 Corinthians 15:51-52 Listen, I tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed— 52 in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed.

John 6:39-40 And this is the Father’s will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath give me, I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day. And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

John 6:43 Jesus therefore answered and said unto them, Murmur not among yourselves. No man can come to me,except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

John 6:54 Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.

John 11:24 Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day.

For all those who believe the righteous go straight to heaven when they die, read the following from Deb’s post above:

But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ’s at his coming.

…and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first;

I tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed— 52 in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed.

I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day. And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

No man can come to me,except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day.

Every one of these verses shows that the dead sleep until the resurrection. Old Testament, New Testament, no difference – we all sleep in the grave until Christ returns – AT THE LAST TRUMPET – not before.

And this verse is kind of telling:

But pray ye that your flight be not in winter, neither on the Sabbath day:

From this we can clearly see that not only are the commandments still in effect in the last days, we are still supposed to rest on the Sabbath (Saturday, not Sunday) even if our lives are in jeopardy. Yet nobody believes the mark of the beast might be about keeping the true Sabbath. Oh well.

Jack Van Impe is in the G-d business. However, Paul wrote we will not all sleep, and the book of Revelation states the man of sin will rule for so many days hating the two witnesses.

How do you get around what the Bible clearly states? This is part of what bothers me about you James. You only take what you want from the Bible, and ignore what you, or someone has taught you to believe.

I can’t tell when the rapture will occur. But, it will happen according to Paul. I can not tell when that restrains will be taken out of the way allowing the man of sin to show hemself, but the Bible states it will happen.

Enough with your sarcastic crap James. Your wisdom is nothing to G-d, and others who have the Holy Spirit inside them may understand what you can, or refuse to believe in. It would be manly of you James to get off your high horse. Your tone of writing is like the moon god worshipers. Full of hate, and pride.

Paul said (complete verse):
We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed–in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump; for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

Paul (your verse) proves my point – At the last trump the dead shall rise in new bodies and the living will be changed as well. If we go right to heaven, we would already have our incorruptible bodies and we would not need to be raised. But some SHALL sleep – the unrighteous will continue to sleep thru the millennium until the second resurrection and the Great White Throne Judgement.

This is what bothers me Leatherneck. You only take what you want from the Bible, and ignore what you, or someone has taught you to believe.

The following statement by Rob makes the sacrifice of Christ worthless and desolate and endorses the abomination of desolation spoken of by Daniel the prophet in chapter 3:1-6″

“……and by not being able to decipher God’s Truth correctly, a person can’t become “convicted of their sins by the Holy Spirit, and by not being able to become “convicted of their sins by the Holy Spirit, you can’t possibly “repent” of your sins against God; and if you don’t “repent” of your sins against God; you will DIE in your sins; and if you DIE in your sins; you end up in Hell….”

Math exposes the false image (character) of God.

1 Corinthians 13 cannot = Eternal suffering alive in hell

Eternal suffering alive in hell = No greater act of violence one can conceive in their mind = 100% opposite of 1 Corinthians 13

“Rise and measure the temple…” in Revelation 11 = Wake up and do the math.

What you believe cannot possibly = Romans 5:18

“Then shall two be in the field” = The true and false image of God found in the same book resulting in confusion by this mixture.

Definition of Babylon = Confusion by mixing

There is a temple already built that people all over the world have access to 24/7. This is the field we ALL come to to find wheat. The Holy Bible.

And what is found in a field? Only wheat? Or can we find rocks, thorns, thistles, weeds, scorpions, and serpents?

Ezekiel 4 reveals that not everything in the field is to be desired for food. Do you go out into a garden, put vegetables and dung on a plate, then feed it to your family?

Bread = The word

Ezekiel 4 = The bread was mixed with dung from a man

“Then shall two be in the field” = Edible food mixed with dung

Pearls must be hunted for in the surrounded thorns and weeds.

“Context” = Filling a wheel barrow with everything in the field and bringing it back to feed your children.

Irony: Without the false image of God in there, we could never appreciate the true. “The best wine was saved for last” John 2
—————————————————————————–

The tree is the book:

Luke 13:7-9

King James Version (KJV)

7 Then said he unto the dresser of his vineyard, Behold, these three years I come seeking fruit on this fig tree, and find none: cut it down; why cumbereth it the ground?

8 And he answering said unto him, Lord, let it alone this year also, till I shall dig about it, and dung it:

9 And if it bear fruit, well: and if not, then after that thou shalt cut it down.

Alienated said, “You quote Scripture to substantiate your point of view, yet disregard other verses and things that would be obviously contrary to Holy Scripture.”
———————————————————–
This is 100% the pot calling the kettle black. What’s ok for you isn’t ok for me? While I run to gather bread, you follow by running to gather weeds to choke the bread.
———————————————————–
What “isn’t biblical” about the plain English in Romans 5:18?
———————————————————–
What “isn’t biblical” about Romans 3:3?
———————————————————–
What “isn’t biblical” about 1 Corinthians 15:22?
———————————————————–
We are both doing the same thing. While I gather wheat that brings life, you run to gather weeds that choke and kill. Most will be lost right? Well my wheat says 100% opposite and you hate it.
————————————————————
You asked, “What did you mean by your comment where you said, “Math tells me that you speak for everyone, what you don’t see no one see’s?”
————————————————————
You said, “no one sees what I see…”
————————————————————
Explanation: You suddenly speak for everyone?? LOL! If you can’t even understand this, what makes you think you have the slightest clue about dark sayings and parables??
————————————————————
In child speak so you can understand: What makes you think that if because you don’t see something, no one sees it??

Romans 5:18. is as follows from the King James, (which coincidentally is celebrating its 400 year anniversary),…….

“Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.”

The “free gift” is referring to those, (all men, and women), that accept Yeshua as their Savior, and then are “born again” in the Spirit of Truth.
It is referring only to those that surrender to Him as the True Vine. Those that walk in the Spirit, and don’t grieve or, quench Him, and those that have transparent relationship with Him as their High Priest, and confess their sins daily and ask for forgiveness from Him.

The “judgment came upon all men to condemnation” part above, is for all of those who do not accept that Yeshua, the Holy Son of God died to atone for their sins.

I wish you understanding from the Spirit of Truth. There is nothing more that I can ask for you?

Regarding the rest of what you said….. I simply quoted you and what you wrote?
Do the Math. lol.

Regarding me….. I am nothing. I am less than nothing. I am dust.
All that I am, is what dwells within my heart, and that is the Lord’s Holy Spirit. I live solely for Him and Him alone.
I have surrendered fully my heart, my soul, and my spirit to Him to the point that I am not sure if I even exist now.
I am willing to die for Him if it is His Desire, and Will. If in doing so, that may somehow bring Him some Honour or Glory?

I have tried to be as cordial as possible with you, but in my opinion, you are simply not making any sense.

Praise Yeshua our KING of kings and LORD of lords. Our Holy and Worthy Lamb. Our Savior who died for all that would be drawn by Father God to the Grace of His Holy Son, who died for our sins. May He be praised for all eternity for this Amazing Grace. Praise our Holy Lord. Amen.

Actually, Paul expressed what I am trying to say above best in Galatians 2:20.

“I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.”

Praise Yeshua our KING of kings and LORD of lords. The Worthy and Holy Lamb of Almighty God the Glorious Father. The exalted Son of Light and Grace.
Amen.

You said, “Our Savior who died for all that would be drawn by Father God to the Grace of His Holy Son, who died for our sins. May He be praised for all eternity for this Amazing Grace. Praise our Holy Lord. Amen.”
———————————————–
Jesus said, “If I be lifted up, will draw all men to me…”
———————————————–
According to you, Jesus is a liar as well as Paul who quoted Isaiah when he said, “Every knee will bow and every tongue confess that Jesus is Lord…”
————————————————
1 Corinthians 15:22 says, “As in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.” “As” means the next qualifying statement is the same.
————————————————-
Romans 5:18 says the exact same thing.
————————————————-
As I’ve stated before, “While I gather bread to feed people, you run to gather thorns and weeds to choke the bread.”
————————————————-
“Then shall two be in the field…..”
————————————————-
“Most will be lost” = Faith in words on a page, and not faith in the power of God to draw all men to him.
————————————————-
If words on a page told you to jump off of a high bridge, would you?
————————————————-
Well I’m here to tell you we did worse. Words on a page told us to cast billions into eternal suffering and we did.
————————————————–
There is no greater act of violence one can conceive in their mind.
————————————————–
On the flip side to that thought, the following statement is an example of no greater faith one can conceive in their mind:
—————————————————
“I believe God will heal every human being that ever lived, even Satan himself.” – 1999

You will be deceived by the words on a page of Rev. 20:10 if you do not understand the following:
—————————————————-
Moses’ staff = A writing utensil
The serpents it turned into = Words on a page
—————————————————-
Let me guess, you believe Moses’ staff literally turned into snakes?
—————————————————-
The Egyptians understood the power of words on a page when God is attached to them. An Obelisk is a pen (staff) pointing at the sky = Matthew 16:19
—————————————————-
Words on a page are so powerful when God is attached to them, they will tell us to cast billions of people into eternal suffering, and we will and did.
—————————————————–
There is no greater act of violence one can conceive in their mind, and your false god will do this. But your desire for destruction will be defeated. The battle against the words you curse the air with will not prevail.
—————————————————–
The Hebrew word for Dragon = Tanniyn
Tannin comes from [gal] nuts that grow on grape vines used to create wine. Tannin also contains a color iron that is used in the creation of ink i.e., Words on a page
They tried to feed Jesus gal when he was on the cross
—————————————————–
Glue is also used to create this bible book. Glue comes from horse hide tannin. The bible is a beast, and we are children of this beast and children of Babylon which is to say, children of confusion by mixing the true and false image of God in the same book. “Then shall two be in the field…”

lambandthedragon said this on May 23, 2012: “I believe God will heal every human being that ever lived, even Satan himself.” – 1999

That is absolutely un-Biblical, blasphemous, and dead wrong …. I truly hope that “thinking people” are not reading or believing any of your postings. If God will heal everyone, there in absolutely no need for Hell [the very same Hell that God made “specifically” for Satan and his Angels]; and if God heals everyone, then God the Father was absolutely crazy [which He certainly wasn’t] to send His precious Son Jesus to die an extremely horrific death; especially since it would have served no real purpose according to you, “lamblessbutfullofthedragon.”

I do believe that God will only put up with your postings for so long. maybe the sunglasses are helping to darken your thinking and spirit; be very careful when you speak the things you do; from your mouth to God’s ear as they say…

lambandthedragon said to Rob: The following statement by Rob makes the sacrifice of Christ worthless and desolate and endorses the abomination of desolation spoken of by Daniel the prophet in chapter 3:1-6″

My Response: What Statement did that??? Your entire posting was a complete ramble of non-connecting or relevant statements; and if anyone out there has the English translation of what “lambandthedragon” was actually trying to say, please let me have it. You left the gate by making a totally nonsensical statement about something I didn’t even say, do, or try to insinuate; then, you didn’t even bother to explain how I did that. Surely the next statement you made wasn’t your [real] answer, because that was even more nonsensical than the first. For one, “the Sacrifice of Christ and the abomination of desolation” have nothing to do, one with the other; one is about THE CHRIST; the other is the Antichrist … so I fail to see either the correlation, or your point.

lambandthedragon said to Rob: “……and by not being able to decipher God’s Truth correctly, a person can’t become “convicted of their sins by the Holy Spirit, and by not being able to become “convicted of their sins by the Holy Spirit, you can’t possibly “repent” of your sins against God; and if you don’t “repent” of your sins against God; you will DIE in your sins; and if you DIE in your sins; you end up in Hell….”

My Response: Please, let me make sure I just read that right “……and by not being able to decipher God’s Truth correctly, a person can’t become convicted of their sins by the Holy Spirit” … are you for real or just messing with me??? One completely goes hand in hand with the other … and if you were able to decipher God’s Truth correctly, you would have been the first one to know that.

Here’s what God says: [1] “The Holy Spirit convicts you of your sins”… pretty straight forward; I shouldn’t have to give you the passage; that is basic required reading in any Bible 101 study. Then, Jesus said [and I explained John 3:1-7] as correctly as Biblically possible; even mentioned that Jesus told the Pharisees in the Book of John, [2] “You rummage through [ransack] the Scriptures, looking for Me [the Coming Messiah prophesied in the OT; the very Messiah that they as teachers should have known about], but you don’t find Me, because you weren’t looking for Me!” Also, what was the message of John the Baptizer, Jesus, and the apostles? [3] “Repent! AND; “be circumcised of the heart.”
In today’s modern vernacular, the “combined meaning” in my three statements above would Biblically state the following: “You don’t know Me [Jesus], because you aren’t Born Again; instead, you ransack the Bible, looking for “your own” answers, because you care not about Mine [Jesus’ answers]. So, until you choose to “Repent of your sins [as Jesus told the Pharisees] … you will INDEED DIE IN YOUR SINS, because you [Pharisees] didn’t believe Me; nor, in the One [God the Father] that sent Me.”
God the Father [and Jesus Himself] have both clearly stated in the Holy Scriptures, “NO MAN [or woman], can come to Me [Christ], UNLESS He [God the Father] “first” chooses [decides on, accepts, and also Divinely Foreknew from the foundations of the World] him [or her];” and, when God decides that the time is right [and your day of Salvation is at hand], the Holy Spirit comes and convicts you; so, if you feel no conviction for your sins; what then are you “repenting“ of?

Maybe you erroneously believe that “repenting” and saying “that you’re sorry to God” is one and the same thing; if you do, you would be DEAD WRONG; yes, you should be sorry; but, “repenting” means “I was once going in “that” direction, sinning as I pleased, and doing everything to my heart’s content; but now, I see the error of my ways; so [today] I choose to repent [turn away from]; and go in this “other” direction, and follow Jesus; rather than the world.”

Now, if you must have a “change of heart” in order to “repent of your sins” [and that “is” what the Bible says]; then, you follow that up with the Book of Jeremiah, where God clearly tells [us] “Not to trust the heart, for it is deceitful, and above all, desperately wicked”… are you then actually going to say [lambandthedragon] in front of God and this entire Website reading public, that you … on your [sinful] own; are capable of doing what God clearly said no human can, because their hearts are desperately wicked?” Am I stating you correctly; because if you indeed believe that you can actually repent on your own, without [first] having had the Holy Spirit convict you of your sins; then “you” above all, are not only a rambler of words, you are completely self-diluted and indeed headed in the wrong direction; and again, I would like to re-emphasize this with great clarity; “those are not my words, but rather God’s words that will stand as your judge.

If you do not repent, YOU WILL DIE IN YOUR SINS [that’s Biblically correct; Jesus said that]; and if any person DIES IN THEIR SINS … THEY WILL end up in HELL! After all, what are the “Wages of Sin?” [Better yet] “What are the wages of “remaining” in your sins?” … The answer to “both” is [Eternal] DEATH … and, is Jesus [in the Bible] ever worried about your physical death? Nope, not one iota, He’s already appointed “that day” for you. He’s only concerned about your [Eternal] DEATH … and thus, if you remain in your sins, where do you spend your Eternal Death? Yep, in HELL; so, the points in my previous posting stand as Biblically correct; if you ask God to Save you, He will [because He already knew you would ask Him to, even before you ever had the idea to do so]; and the process isn’t based on “our” ideas or whims of how we are to be Saved, God has already appointed “that way”… and “that way” is through the revelation of Himself and His Son [Jesus] through his Holy Spirit; and every time, that brings about a “conviction” of your sins; and, as a result of that “conviction” of your sins, you NOW see what you were previously blind and oblivious to … your Hell-bound soul, because of those sins.

So, the next step in the process becomes “accepting or rejecting” God the Father and His Son; and, the Saving Work of His Holy Spirit. See, God can choose you, but you have the FREE WILL to reject Him; that is why the Bible says; “Do not quench the Holy Spirit;” and also, “Today is the day of Salvation;” if you are convicted of your sinful life, and you choose to reject God’s advances towards you; eventually [the Bible says]; God will leave you, and move on to another, and you will not get THAT CHANCE again; because God’s Gift is SO GREAT … and He certainly doesn’t have to beg you [or me] to take it. Repentance, a changed heart, [physically voicing with your own mouth, and believing in your own heart], that Jesus died for you, rose from the Grave, and that He [Jesus] is the only way to enter Heaven; then asking God the Father for His Forgiveness; asking His Son Jesus to be both your LORD and SAVIOR; then asking Him to send His Holy Spirit to come live inside you from that day forward; that is becoming Born Again; and Jesus made it clear to Nicodemus, UNLESS one is Born Again, you can’t “understand the Scriptures of God, nor enter into Heaven after you die; so since there is no [Eternal] place after death except Heaven or Hell, how important should BECOMING BORN AGAIN and NOT DYING IN YOUR SINS be to you lambandthedragon???

“but immediately after, God will allow Satan to resurrect that world leader’s body and possess it; then that person’s body (fully possessed by Satan”
I am sorry but does not make much sense. The antichrist will be thrown alive into the lake of fire. If his body is solely possessed by satan, God will throw an empty shell into the lake of fire because satan will go to the bottomless pit. It is said of Judas that satan entered into him but there is no statement of the antichrist that satan will enter him in the same manner. It would not be necessary anyway when you have someone totally devoted to him without the chance of the Holy Spirit intervening to save him.
I doubt it likewise that we will have a pretrib rapture. Prepare to be for whatever time in the tribulation. If you see the tribulation as a sort of gathering of the first-fruits those in it will have lived an extraordinary life of holiness. Just being saved would not suffice.
When during WWII the bombs started to fall on Germany, many left the church because they did not expect, to be around anymore.
What will you do, if the rapture will not come at the expected time?
Will you abandon your faith?
Michael speaks more like the oracle of Delphi, which uttered confused words while being under the influence of poisonous gases which were in that cave. He truly is not just confused himself but confuses others with his ramblings of math and dung and ink.

Rob, I very much agree with your concept about being washed with the Word of God. Anyone living by the Spirit can attest to the fact that all of Scripture is God-Breathed, and the more it is lived out in our lives, the more it becomes alive in us. I too have learned about much of what you say regarding the coming days; I was taught back in the early 90s and it took until recently for me to fully digest it all. What I can encourage people to do is get into the Word, get close to the Lord, and HE will lead you into all Truth. Prophecy is funny in the fact that it hardly ever turns out the way we expect it to. Meaning, yes, we receive prophecy, but the Truth of that prophecy usually goes far deeper than we understand at the time of receiving it. We should be praying for Israel, for the Bride, for the Tribulation saints, for the Witnesses (because they are real human beings with a mighty calling on their lives), and for the Lord to sustain us during these days no matter what happens. We need to live as if our names are the actually the ones written in the Bible and stop acting as spectators. This is His story, and we all have a part. He will give us wisdom as we go, step by step. Our goal is to remain faithful until the end, and for each of us that will mean something different. I am beginning to not just have head knowledge of the Church in Acts being of one accord, the Bride is actually becoming of one accord. What was once head knowledge in our lives is now becoming our lives. We will not be alone in this; we will have our Brothers and Sisters, and most importantly we will have the Lord. Any cause of dissension or division is not of God, and is a distraction. Being a Christian is a privilege, and those who do not know Him will by the grace of God be wooed by the love of those who do. Thanks for all the time you took to post the info that you have about your research. The roads you have traveled are indeed dark, and you are a brave soul for traveling them with the grace of God. I could only handle so much; each time I would look into the plans that were being made, I would physically get sick because they are so sinister. I thank the people who have given their lives already to bring us that kind of information because as I’m sure you know, there are many that have. The line is being drawn in the sand; either love God or don’t. It will be that simple.

First of all, the (1) that you associate as in being “singular” above, is not to be understood as such. The (1) would be the “first” or “Primary” definition amongst others. So the primary definition of the Greek “ἄρρην”, transliterated as, “arrēn” is “Male” either in its singular or plural sense. (Get it?)

Now, Yeshua was the “firstfruits”, and every group that comes to Him prior to the Bema Seat Judgment is considered to be also “firstfruits”.
This would include, everyone that has lived and died that believe in Him, and are “born of the Spirit” throughout history, and those that will come to Him in the future prior to that Bema Seat Judgment.

Those of the Assembly, (or church), will rule and reign with Yeshua, (2 Timothy 2:12., Revelation 5:10.), the Assembly is a royal priesthood, (1 Peter 2:9., Revelation 20:6.) Like Yeshua will will rule with a “rod of iron”, (Psalm 2:9.) the Assembly that overcomes the world, will do the same, (Revelation 2:27.), as will this group of 144,000, being also “firstfruits”, (Revelation 12:5. & 14:4.).

This is all prophesised in many places within the Tanakh, but lets look at just one instance within Isaiah 32:1. KJV.
“Behold, a king shall reign in righteousness, and princes shall rule in judgment.”

This group of 144,000 are born from the tribulation out of Israel, that will come to accept Yeshua as their Savior, and it is describing a future event.
However because you believe that the “woman” is the church, you simply don’t understand what the Word is actually saying. (How if this woman is the church it could birth its own Creator, (with Yeshua being the man child), is ridiculous. But even if that was the case, the woman would still have to be Israel!
For Yeshua was born a Jew under the law, (Galatians 4:4.) and no Gentile believer, (Cornelius and his household), was even a part of the Assembly until some 15 to 20 years after Yeshua’s death and resurrection. So in even using that rather convoluted logic, the woman would still be Israel.)

In utilizing scripture to interpret scripture, (the Tanakh), as the Berean’s did, (Acts 17:11.) the woman is clearly Israel based upon Genesis 37:9,10.

And though I have already given you the following to consider numerous times, (since I am leaving this site, and this will definitely be my last post), I will do so again for you, (and others), to understand the book of Revelations time frame.

To start with, the title of the book itself contains a certain amount of specificity regarding “time frame” on its own. The English word “revelation” is derived from the Greek, “ἀποκάλυψις”, transliterated “apokalypsis” (Strong’s 602) its definitions consist of, “Laying bare, making something naked. A disclosure of truth, or instruction concerning things before unknown. Used of events by which things or states or persons hitherto, (or until this time) have been withdrawn from view are made visible to all. A manifestation, or appearance.”
This would then mean, that all of this following information has been until now, “hidden and unknown”.

John states in Revelation 1:1. that this is, “The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must “shortly come to pass”; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:” KJV.

The term translated above as “shortly come to pass” can only be understood within its correct context, as to be referring to to the future, rather than having any historical significance whatsoever.
Furthermore, this is supported as well by what is stated in verse 3. “Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this “prophecy”, and keep those things which are written therein: “for the time is at hand”. KJV.

The English word “prophecy” is derived from the transliterated Greek, “prophēteia” (Strong’s 4394). The primary definition of prophecy is, “a discourse emanating from divine inspiration and declaring the purposes of God, whether by reproving and admonishing the wicked, or comforting the afflicted, or revealing things hidden; esp. by “foretelling future events”.”

The term translated into “for the time is at hand” would again indicate that all of the following information is describing events of the future. (And prophecy could not be considered prophecy, if the information itself is already known.)

In verse 19 Yeshua says to John, “Write the things which thou hast seen, and the things which are, and the things which shall be hereafter;” KJV.

Yeshua tells John to write the things which he has seen. This he evidently does by writing within the next verse Yeshua’s explanation as to what he had just seen regarding the vision of the seven stars and the seven golden candlesticks.
Yeshua then informs John to write “the things that are”, within the epistles to the Churches. The “shall be hereafter” would again indicate that this is a prophecy regarding future events. The English word “hereafter” is derived from the copulation of the Greek words “ταῦτα μετά” or transliterated, “tauta meta” (Strong’s 5023 and 3326 respectively.) Combined in this manner they can simply be defined in English as “after”.

When the epistles to the Churches were completed, John was then caught up to heaven, and the voice that he heard said to him, “Come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter.” Rev 4:1. KJV.
Again with the inclusion of “hereafter”, this cannot be misconstrued as meaning anything other than regarding the future from when John experienced this vision, and the revelation from Yeshua, and the angels.

So above we have been provided with “revelation” and its specific definition. “Shortly come to pass”, and “prophecy” and its specific definition. “The time is at hand” (verse 3) and “The things that shall be hereafter” by Yeshua Himself in verse 1:19, and then “hereafter” again in 4:1.
That is six (6) instances in total, for the reader to understand the context of time frame
Therefore since there is nothing to indicate that anything of a historical significance will be provided within the following narrative, and that it is indeed a sacred prophecy provided by God to Yeshua to reveal what has previously been hidden to His followers, then the wording translated as “man child”, (within the KJV.) in Revelation 12:5 cannot be that of Yeshua. However, it could most definitely be pointing to the 144,000, (if in being a Berean), one was to reflect upon Isaiah 66:5-10.

Again, “Hello?”
The whole of the New Testament and New Covenant, is all cyclical, and repetitive in nature, and is simply a fulfillment to what is written within the Tanakh.
Without the Tanakh there would be no foundation whatsoever for our faith. What do you think that Peter was referring to with the following?

”Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation. For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.” 2 Peter 1:20,21. KJV.

From Jacob on, God has been concerned with His people Israel. The Assembly is “Spiritual Israel”, (Romans 11:13-25.) with the rest of the chapter referring to Israel itself, and the as of yet, unfulfilled Covenants that God the Father has made with them. Which are described within the book of Revelation.

In respects to utilizing “systematic theology” and its possible attributes and shortcomings. I will simply respond with this, it is merely another tool in which to utilize in performing proper hermeneutics, and critical exegesis. Does it work all of the time? Well frankly “No”. However, if in locating a passage that appears to have a correlating relevance to the particular topic of study, should it be discarded? I would say “No” to that as well.

You continue to disregard all of the above though, and I wish you well with that. But if you bother to reflect on any of the above, please reflect upon that of Romans 11., and what Paul says through the Spirit.

As I have stated to you in the past, I have nothing personal against you yourself, (and I sincerely wish you well as I depart from here), however I have great difficulty in understanding your theological point of view.

a,
I’m sorry to hear you are leaving this site. I enjoyed our lively discussions and frankly it has helped me to cement my opinions since much of what I believe comes from studying other interpretations that I have since come to reject.
We will miss you.
Anyway, as I mentioned, I have considered your interpretation, years ago actually, and I had to reject it because it did not make sense nor did it fit with the rest of the prophecy around it, or with Daniel from which much of the Book of Revelation is taken, which mentions a 1260 years period where the beast (under the control of Satan) persecutes the true church. This can not be future prophecy.
As for the woman giving birth to its creator, it makes as much sense as Israel (which didn’t exist at the time of Christ) being the mother of Jesus. But the OLD TESTAMENT church was Judaism, and as you said, Christ was a Jew, so that fits. But after His birth, He founded the new church of Christianity, which then became the true church, which was indeed persecuted by the Holy Roman Empire for 1260 years. This is exactly what Daniel prophesied. Rev12 is a simple story about the birth of Jesus and Christianity, and every word fits perfectly.
The 144,000 can not fit because they are not to ascend to heaven, but will never leave the earth. They were not persecuted at their birth, as was Jesus when His family was forced to flee to Egypt after His birth. And certainly not for 1260 years (or even days for that matter).
You make a big point that everything in Revelation is supposed to be a future event, but how would God tell the story of the new Christian church without showing the birth of Christ? You are getting way to strict on the wording here, yet you take a lot of poetic license with the term, “(1) male child.” I don’t believe God would describe the 144,000 so clearly on the one hand, then encrypt the term in the next chapter.
You also have cut the text some slack with the term, “Shortly come to pass.” In your interpretation, nothing in the book has happened yet, so “shortly” must mean 2000 years.
I am not surprised that you do not understand my theological point of view, because it is written that the majority of God’s people will follow the beast and misinterpret the prophecies. But here is something to think about – In my interpretation, rev12 has already unfolded exactly as I have described, as well as most of rev13. Now, you can differ from my interpretation, but you can’t refute history. Every word I have said has already happened, so how can you consider it ridiculous? You really can’t label an interpretation as wrong if history has already proved it to be true. Well, wait, I guess you can. The modern Jews still don’t recognize Jesus as the messiah even after 2000 years, so I suppose you could try to refute history, but I believe that would be a big mistake.
Of course, time will tell (shortly – finally) if you are correct. Perhaps when you see the prophecy begin to unfold you can come back and fill us in on the current events.
Regardless, I wish you the best and God bless.
Jim

With all due respect the “OT Church” as you call it, was the Mosiac law presided over by the Levitical Priesthood, and was for the whole house of Israel. At Mount Sinai the House of Israel rejected the Higher Law. This is the law that presided in the Apostalic Church as Instituted by the Saviour. This law was written on the first set of stone tablets, that Moses smashed because of the idolitery in worshiping the Golden Calf.
The Apostolic Church fell into apostacy about AD 150, definatly by AD 180. For 2000 years so called Christianity has been labouring under a delusion. Hence why is there a necessity of a restoration, “and I saw another angel” Rev 14 v 6. Hopefully our pastors are preparing us for this.
What is your definition of Heaven that the 144000 can’t go there. They are the companions of Christ are they not? Is Christ limited to where he can go?
A lot of scholars say that The Book of Revelation is a history of the world, begining with the war in heaven when Satan was cast into the earth with a third of his followers,”Satan and his Angels” to the end of the Millenium, the final war when the Saviour puts all enemies under his feet, and the wicked will be cast out, and the earth will be glorified and take its place reserved for it in the mansions of Heaven.
The majority of Gods People?
The people who follow the Beast are not Gods people,and will in no ways inherit the Kingdom, prepared for those who love the Lord. Not all those who say Lord Lord will be recognised by him, he will say “Get thee hence I never knew you” Read the New Testament and pray for a spirit of understanding. Your statement that Jews don’t recognise Jesus as their Messiah This is because they condem them selves if they do. However read Zachariah chp 13 v 6, also when the great earthqauke splits Jerusalem and the rightous remnants flee into the valley, the Lord will apear before them and show his wounds and all shall recognise Him as the Saviour.
Gods people shall be gathered in the last days and there will be seperation of the rightous and the wicked. The rightous will be lifted up while the desruction of the wicked and the changing of the earth takes place. They will then live on the cleansed earth for a 1000 years, and the wicked who are killed will dwell in a tempory “HELL” until the end of the Millenium and the final judgement.

David,
The Book of Revelation never says the 144000 go to heaven. They are sealed with the word of God in their foreheads, which simply means they are of the true church. It doesn’t say they will be protected during the tribulation, nor are they raptured as some believe.
As for the throne references:

Rev 7:13
And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they?
Rev 7:14
And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.
Rev 7:15
Therefore are they before the throne of God, and serve him day and night in his temple: and he that sitteth on the throne shall dwell among them.

This part takes place after the Great Tribulation, as it says they came out of it. Since the tribulation ends with the return of Christ, they do not go to heaven.
The throne that is mentioned is Jesus’ earthly throne in the new temple He will build in 3 days upon returning. The 144000 will be priests of the inner circle – closest to Christ and His throne.

Rev 7:16
They shall hunger no more, neither thirst any more; neither shall the sun light on them, nor any heat.
Rev 7:17
For the Lamb which is in the midst of the throne shall feed them, and shall lead them unto living fountains of waters: and God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes.
These verses describe their new incorruptible bodies they will receive along with those dead in Christ that are resurrected at that time – These are the multitudes mentioned in rev 7-9:
Rev 7:9
After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;

Everything you mentioned is true, and you agree that the church became apostate during the Roman Empire and remains that way to this day.
That is why I said that the majority of modern Christians will follow the beast, that beast being the apostate church, not a world-dictating Antichrist as many in the apostate church believe. They are fooled now and will continue to be fooled and will receive the 7 last plagues. So yes, some of God’s people will follow the beast – simply by doing exactly what they are doing today, and they won’t even realize they are in big trouble.

I believe that most Jews will come to Jesus during the tribulation due to the efforts of the two witnesses and perhaps some of the 144000, who I believe will be preaching the gospel during the tribulation.
But the wicked will not go to any kind of Hell. They will simply do what all the world’s dead are doing right now – resting in sheol (the grave) until the second resurrection. They are resurrected from the dead, not transferred from hell. As any Jew if hell exists and they will say, “No!” It is simply mot in the bible except where the translators used hell for sheol instead of grave in order to bolster the churches concept which was invented to fill the pews and get indulgences to build the great cathedrals of Europe. That much is simple church history, but not biblical doctrine, yet most modern Christians still but into the idea of hell. Another apostasy.

Even the lake of fire is just a metaphor for destruction – a visual aid for John to understand what will happen at the final judgement. For God, an actual lake of fire would not be necessary and way to messy and so it probably shouldn’t be taken literally.

So? Ask any Jew, whether Jesus is the Christ.
As for the sheol, remember the parable of Lazarus and the rich man. The rich man was by no means resting.
So, what kind of destruction will await the lost?

Wow, you seem pretty confident there will be people lost. Why? Words on a page rule you? Words on a page dictate your level or lack of faith in Christ? “Most will be lost” = Faith in Christ?

“Most will be lost” = 100% opposite of faith in Christ
“Most will be lost” = The faith of Christ accomplishes nothing profound
“Most will be lost” = Exactly what you’ve believe and have been tricked into calling “Good news”

The old hymn “Victory in Jesus” = “Most will be lost?”

St. Louis 20, Chicago 3 = Chicago victory?

Revelation 11 = “Rise and measure the temple….and them that worship therein…” = Wake up and do the math

I would be very happy to be proven wrong. But what does dictate you? Scripture as well as many encounters with the afterlife have show a different picture than yours. What you say sounds like universal salvation to me.

Romans 5:18 are not my words. You’re taught now, to say I’m taking that out of context. But this makes no sense. When you say this, you are telling me it’s going to reveal something opposite if I keep reading. 1 Corinthians 15:22 says exactly the same thing. Think about it. When I show you Romans 5:18 you say it doesn’t mean what it plainly says, but when the words says “most will be lost” it does mean what it says.

The bible is a book about itself. Words on a page, about the power of words on a page to deceive us.

The field is the world. The field is also the Word, and what is found in a field? Only edible wheat? I bring a plate of edible wheat for you to eat, but you bring a plate of wheat, rocks, thistles, thorns, and dung for me to eat from the field. Are only pearls found in a field? No, you have to hunt for pearls. When you say context, you are saying we need not sift the wheat.

You say context but Paul says the letter kills. You said it yourself.

Universal salvation = Bad = Your faith is not in the power of God to heal, but in what men do to save themselves. “You must believe….” right? Well the same word you claim to believe says all will believe. “Every knee will bow and every tongue confess…” Isn’t this your requirement for life? Now you will tell me it’s to late for them? LOL!

Great news everyone!! What Jesus did reaps little

Desolation or desolate means empty. Church faith and doctrine makes the sacrifice of Christ worthless in their own words. In your own words

The verses you quote basically say that all men have the chance for eternal salvation and that everyone who ever lived will be resurrected and given a shot at eternal life, but there are conditions. Just giving God lip service won’t do it. Those who refuse to worship the true God will have no place in His kingdom. Scratch the Muslims, Hindus, Buddhists and atheists. Don’t want to be burdened by rules such as the Ten Commandments? You’re scratched.
So how many will be saved? Who knows?
But I was referring to the tribulation.
Rev 13:3 And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after (followed) the beast.
Rev 13:7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.
Rev 13:8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.
God is warning us that most of His churches will become apostate by the time of the tribulation.
As for the true church:
Rev 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.
The true church is only a remnant of the original church – the majority being polluted by paganism and false doctrines (catechism) during the reign of the first beast (the Holy Roman Empire).
Also note that the true church still keeps the commandments. It has not deleted of changed any of them. This leaves out almost every Christian church on earth, catholic and protestant. These people will have the mark of the beast and will suffer the last 7 plagues. However, they will not die and they will be given the chance to repent from their sins and receive eternal life. Whether this happens at the first or the second resurrection, I can’t say for sure.
This is what I meant by the many, or the most.
Sure most believers think they simply have to sit back and wait for the rapture, and then all Christians will be safe in heaven during the tribulation. That is very reassuring to be certain, but untrue. There’s a big difference between saying you’re a Christian and acting like one. Those who feel it’s OK to be half-pagan, half Christian are in for a big surprise.
Hate to burst anyone’s bubbles here, but if you celebrate Christmas or Easter, you’re part pagan. If you attend church on Sunday or fail to rest on Saturday, you’re part pagan.
Jesus is not going to like that when he returns. Just see what happens to Babylon at the end of Revelation.
Or you can just tell Jesus you love Him and leave it at that.
It’s you’re choice…Choose wisely.

“Words on a page will not dictate my level of faith in the power of God, no matter what book they are found in.”
With that you have left common grounds. You are deceived and have created your own gospel because you like it more. Beware, all those who preach other gospels. He is anathema, cursed according to Paul. I have heard this statement before:”I believe for everyone to be saved.” But who are you? Where is your creation? If your faith is so big, why not save those people yourself. You cannot compel God to do things, which He Himself ruled out.
You are really confused. Always this talk about do the math. Jesus Himself said, that few will the way to life, as sad as it is. I am not fond of that either but unfortunately that’s the current reality.
The good news (euangelium) is that we have the chance to escape the wrath of God, it will not become better the more will listen to it or worse the fewer. Your gospel has the danger that people will become complacent, thinking they will make it in one way on another.

Michael, repetitions do not make it more truth. As James says, the good news is that we do have a chance. Jesus was on earth to heal and deliver, so he did not have to be compelled to do something against his will, as you try to do. 10,000? He had one servant that was sick, not 10,000. You cannot discard passages of bible you don’t like as “words on page” and demand that others are the very truth and nothing but the truth because you prefer them. 1. Cor 15 says that all in Christ will be made alive. If you are not in Christ(not His) then you will not be made alive. In Rom 5 it is called a gift. This you will have to receive otherwise it is of no effect.

gyod,
Christ was a Jew, and they have never believed in the idea of hell, and He never taught it.
The parable of Lazarus was just that – a parable. It was not literal. Jesus was trying to make a point by imagining how a conversation might go, but all the parties involved (who were Jews) knew it was hypothetical. Not being raised Jewish, and most having been raised believing in hell, Christians simply don’t realize it is only a parable and try to use it to prove the existence of hell.
The lost, and there will be many, will go to sheol (the grave) until the second resurrection at the end of the millennium. Of course, to the dead, this will appear instantaneous, so as far as God is concerned, it is a small matter. This doesn’t mean these people will not be saved and receive eternal life at the great white throne judgement, it just means Christ has no use for them as priests and teachers during the millennium. The dead will not be resurrected at the second coming just so they can party for 1000 years. Those with pagan beliefs such as Sunday being the “new” Sabbath, and those who don’t want to give up Christmas and Valentine’s Day will be of no use in the millennium, so they will be able to skip to the end. At that time, they will be taught the true church from the elect of the millennium and those who agree to give up the Babylon within them will receive eternal life. The rest will perish. Simple as that.
As a case in point, anyone professing that unless a Christian go to church every Sunday or else they will burn in hell, will probably be skipping the millennium.
You see, there is such a thing as being “too Christian” by buying into all of the changes that the early church and the Holy Roman Empire (the first beast of Revelation) introduced. The Catholic church is a perfect example. It seems quite holy and its members ore very devout, but their worship is in vain. It is why the Vatican is the second beast of Revelation. So if every catholic is apostate (Unknowingly of course), there are 1.3 billion lost souls. And what are the odds of all these lost souls giving up Sunday worship and going back to the true Saturday Sabbath before Christ returns? Zero! This is why the bible says the whole world will follow the beast. 1.3 billion Catholics plus all the sunday-worshipping Protestants is about “all” of the Christian world to me.
Yet if you ask the average Christian today, most believe that every Christian will be raptured just for their basic faith in Christ, and the tribulation will be devoid of Christians. While that would simply be lovely, it is stupid. If true, there would be no need for the Book of Revelation. It would only be useful to every other religion who would never understand it. Heck, most Christians can’t figure it out – what use would it be to a Muslim?
The Book of Revelation is a warning to Christians not to make the same kind of mistakes the ancient Jews used to make – to stray from God’s commandments. This will be our flood. We don’t have Noah, but we do have the bible. And we will soon have the two witnesses and probably the 144,000 sealed teachers as well. You can either learn ahead of them or wait for the tribulation and hope you can get on board before it’s too late. Just trying to toss everyone a little life-saver here folks.
Bless.

Using the following as an example:
Mat 8:11 And I say unto you, That many shall come from the east and west, and shall sit down with Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, in the kingdom of heaven.
Mat 8:12 But the children of the kingdom shall be cast out into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
What Jesus is saying is that when He returns and sets up the kingdom of heaven on earth during the millennium. At that time the dead are resurrected, including Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, and the centurion to whom Jesus is speaking.
To be cast out of this kingdom is to be separated from God, the light, and thus be in utter darkness – the grave (sheol).
Since the Jews never have believed in hell, please show me in the New Testament where Jesus explains to His disciples that hell has been created, where it is , how you end up there and for how long, and what the conditions there are like. Nothing! The same can be said for the magical change of the Sabbath from Saturday to Sunday. These concepts were invented much later and then reverse-engineered into the bible through referencing passages that sort of fit the concept but in reality mean something completely different.
Sorry, but heaven and hell are pagan ideas that Satan has infiltrated into the early church. It is part of the “Babylon” that will be destroyed just before the second coming.
You can count on it.
Bless.

The apostle Peter quotes the book of Enoch. Read his quote and the book. Jesus himself spoke about the geenna, an eternal fire. Sunday became a day for service because Jesus was resurrected on the first day of the week. To all who contend that it is a day of Sunday, the day before is called Saturday, another pagan god. Why is anyone limiting worship to one day anyway? Are we Christians only during one day and pagans the rest of the week? I know, many are but that’s not the way it should be. Do you really think, Jesus would use a plain lie to build a parable? The great tribulation is by no means void of Christians. There will be many, who will give their life instead of accepting the mark. Your conclusion that the for revelation would otherwise be no need is not logical. Who knows how many will receive Jesus because they took the warnings of the revelation seriously? Besides that, what do you mean by perish? Do you mean they will cease to exist, will be annihilated?

gyod,
The Gehenna Jesus spoke of referred to a trash dump outside of Jerusalem where the garbage fires burned day and night like an outdoor incinerator. It was, as usual, a metaphor and not an actual place where dead people go. It is replaced in the Book of Revelation with the Lake of Fire, where the wicked are destroyed at the Great White Throne Judgement.
Lets just use simple logic here. If people went directly to either heaven or hell when the die, that means God must pass judgement on them at that time. Those who go to hell are forever doomed and those who go to heaven have no need or desire to leave there and return to earth for the millennium. If this was true, there could be no resurrection of the dead and no judgement of the wicked, either at the second coming or at the Great White Throne Judgement at then end of the millennium. The dead would already be resurrected and judged, so what is the point of the resurrection?
As for the Sabbath, I don’t care how you spin it, either you obey the 4th commandment or you don’t. On the 7th day God rested and so must we. We are also told to keep it holy, special. You can’t just say, “I keep every day equally holy.” and think you can fool God. And to blame Jesus for the change (I keep His resurrection day more holy than the very day Jesus Himself kept, even after His resurrection) is just asking for retribution from the Father. (i.e. the mark of the beast). Jesus did not die to save us from hell, but from our sins.
Jesus said the wages of sin is death, not to burn in hell forever. The lake of fire is death, not a place of eternal torture. Would a God of love ever think of creating such a place? Not MY God.
To summarize:
PAGAN:
Sunday worship
Graven images / statues (i.e. crucifixes/virgin Mary)
Christmas (Saturnalia)
Easter (Ishtar)
Valentines Day (Cupid’s day)
Halloween (Day of the Dead)
Wedding rings
Holy Water
Nuns (Vestal virgins) (Alter boys as a related subject)
Heaven and Hell
Purgatory

You can either give up these things now or have them ripped away when Christ returns. Does anyone believe He will switch to a Sunday Sabbath and defy His own laws? Will He let us celebrate the birthday of Tammuz (Baal) on Dec 25th? Will He host Easter egg hunts on the temple mount? What will He dress up as on Halloween?
Try to imagine His millenial church. It will be similar to the ancient church in Philadelphia of rev3. Simple. Pure. Clean. Free of apostasy introduced over the last 2000 years. All the trash will be dumped into Gehenna when He returns.
I urge everyone to try to get cleaned up now and avoid the last minute rush. Get rid of all the pagan baggage you’ve collected over the years. I started out catholic, and I had a ton of it, but I managed to jettison all of it and listen only to the word of God and not false churches and ministers.
I hope everyone will be able to do the same.
Bless.

I never said that people go to the lake of fire after they die. Since they have to protection by the Lord, they will be cared for by their god, Satan. He does not love any of his subjects and so they live in torment until the great judgment. You want to insist on keeping the sabbath? Good luck, Galatians 3:10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.
You cannot single out one command and ignore the rest of the law.
And here comes the definition of eternal death:Revelation 20:14 14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
The wicked are not destroyed in the lake of fire.Revelation 14:9-11 9 ¶ And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand, 10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb: 11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.
You also asked about the creation of hell:JV Matthew 25:41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
What do think, how long will this eternal fire be for the lost before they cease to exist?
As for the verse about sin, death and the gift of life, I do see your point. I do have a problem with that. But it would be unwise to ignore the rest of the scripture. I could imagine that it speaks just about the saved ones. I wished it were as you say, but I do not take any chances.

Christ was a Jew, and they have never believed in the idea of hell, and He never taught it. The parable of Lazarus was just that – a parable. It was not literal. Jesus was trying to make a point by imagining how a conversation might go, but all the parties involved (who were Jews) knew it was hypothetical.

gyod: As I was leaving the postings, I saw this posting by James Giordano; I lost track of the Biblical errors three lines into the reading so I will just comment on these; I truly hope you didn’t believe any of it. This is exactly what I was writing about when I posted about John 3:1-7, and the REAL message that Jesus was giving Nicodemus. Please go back and re-read my first two postings where John 3:1-7 and being BORN AGAIN is fully and (Biblically) correctly broken down for you.

James Giordano said: Christ was a Jew, and they have never believed in the idea of hell, and He never taught it.

My Response: That is absolutely FALSE; the Hebrew/Jews called Hell “Sheol” (and in the Bible, Sheol was divided into two compartments; Sheol-NT/Hades (aka: Torments); and Sheol-NT/Paradise (aka: Abraham’s Bosom). They were separated by the Great Gulf of Luke 16. That Great Gulf extends vertically down to the Lake of Fire (Actual Hell). It is that vertical chasm that we know as the “Abyss” (the Demons in the account of the “Demoniac from Gadara” asked Jesus not to send them to the back to the Abyss; so He let them enter the pigs instead. Either Jesus or the Demons called “Legion” were in error about such a place (actually they were both right, because they both knew it exists, and very real). In both the OT and NT, the prophets and apostles (all Jews, except for Luke); and also Jesus (a Jew) spoke more about Hell than Heaven; and again, they were all Jews, except for Luke; so to say Jews (or Jesus) never believed in Hell or taught about it is categorically and blatantly wrong.

James Giordano said: The parable of Lazarus was just that – a parable. It was not literal.

My Response: That is absolutely FALSE; first of all, the account of “The rich man and Lazarus” is NOT a parable; anyone who has passed Bible 101 knows that much. In parables, real names are never used; for example. A parable would say, “There was a certain king, or man, etc. … they all start that way; but in this account, Jesus Himself is pulling back the curtain on eternity, and He is giving us a glimpse of what our Souls will be experiencing if we choose to either be “Separated from God”… or “Joined to God.” In the account, Jesus lets us know that Souls don’t just sleep, or vaporize, or go up in smoke; NO, those in Sheol-NT Hades (the bad side), like the rich man, are in complete torment; and that they also have a very real conscious and vivid memory of where they are at; why they are there; that they even lived on Earth beforehand; also, that they had other family members; and that if they could possibly go back, or send someone on their behalf, that they would definitely warn others not to go there! This true account by Jesus completely destroys the Egyptian pagan, later Gnostic heresy of Purgatory; or, of second chances after death. The Bible says, “It is appointed to every man (or woman), once to die, and “then” (or “immediately”) the judgment. Today, when you take your last breath on Earth, you “immediately” wake up in either Hades or Heaven; and the determining factor is your obedience to John 3:1-7; BORN AGAIN means you are Heaven-bound; not BORN AGAIN, means you end up with the rich man, and I assure you, it won’t be a parable then either; and you will stay there (burning in pain day and night 24/7) until you are called up to the final GWT judgment in Rev. 20:11-15, where everyone that appears there is automatically GUILTY; afterwards, you are tossed into the Lake of Fire (Real Hell, not the same place as Sheol-NT Hades; much, much, worse).

By contrast, Jesus also showed them (in that same account), Sheol-NT Paradise (the good side); where ALL the people that died “obedient to God” (from Able to the Ascension) went. In Sheol-NT Hades (the bad side), the obviously unrepentant, unbelieving, and disobedient rich man was suffering what he had coming to him from his unrepentant life on Earth. His riches bought him pleasures on Earth; but his unrepentance brought him destruction in the afterlife. LAZARUS had been dirt poor on Earth, but he obviously had the good sense to have repented and asked God to forgive him before he died. At His Ascension, Jesus emptied out Sheol-Paradise, and took them all to the Fathers House. Today, when you become BORN AGAIN, the Bible says that you have passed from death to eternal life, you are fully repented, and forgiven by God (Remember: NO MAN can forgive anyone’s sins, ONLY God can). The Jewish Pharisees were plenty stubborn, but they were dead right when they would jeer at Jesus every time He “forgave sins” and healed a person; they would say, “Doesn’t He know that ONLY God can forgive sins?” They just didn’t believe that Jesus WAS God. So, if you are one who believes that a priest, pastor, or minister has the power to forgive any of your sins; think long and hard before you die, because death could come at the next intersection on your way to or from work; and if you’re wrong (and you would be), it would be too late to change your Final Boarding Pass; no do-overs either; you WOULD BE with the rich man. THIS ACCOUNT BY JESUS WAS LITERAL.

James Giordano said: Jesus was trying to make a point by imagining how a conversation might go, but all the parties involved (who were Jews) knew it was hypothetical.

My Response: That is absolutely FALSE; Jesus was either God or He wasn’t, so He doesn’t “imagine how a conversation might go”… He would know exactly how it would go. Again, the Jews ALL believed in “Sheol-The afterlife of the Lost and the Damned”… so the account is neither “imagined” nor “hypothetical.”

James
I am wondering why you did not comment on my reply above, regarding the 2300 days, which you use to justify your 1798 date? You seem so sure of yourself, yet you do not answer a simple critique of your theories. This is the big “dilemma” for most adventist endtime theories, knowing full well that you are not an adventist, but your theories borrow much from their interpretations. As I said above, I have discarded ALL theories that make the 2300 days to be years, because the language used indicates 24 hr days. This does not negate the fact that there may be a second fulfillment of the 2300 days in the future, but it should always be literal days. I am Just curious to see how you justify this apparent “part” that does not fit?

dru,
I’m not familiar with your theory on how to decide if Daniel is using the year for a day or the day for a day method. As far as I am concerned Daniel was consistent in the year for a day method. I have read many theories that tried to debunk all of Daniel’s prophecies by claiming all days were literal and therefore there were no end-time prophecies in the book. Apparently, your source has reverse-engineered the book of Daniel in order to “prove” that some passages refer to days while others refer to years. Just another bogus theory as far as I’m concerned.
Also, you have confused the 2300 day prophecy with the year 1898. That date refers to the end of the 42 months of rev12 and the time, times and dividing of times from Daniel, each equalling 1260 years – the duration of the Holy Roman Empire, which ended in 1798. So your original point is actually moot since its not the verse I was referring to.
🙂

James
My source is the Word of God and the Language used therein. “Yowm” is translated as days,years, or time periods in general. This is what is used by itself in Daniel 12:11. But in the 2300 days prophecy, “evenings and mornings” are used, which can only refer to 24 hour days. Interestingly, both of these are used in describing the genesis one creation account, meaning, that God is still in the process of creation as we speak!???! Just a thought to ponder.

Don’t forget that each day of creation equates to 1000 years. 6000 years for the age of mankind and the 7th representing the “year of the lord” or the millennium. So here we have a day and a year equalling 1000 years. A lot depends on context and of course there are a lot of dual meanings and fulfillments, and that could be the case with Daniel. I wouldn’t be surprised that God could pull off such a thing.

yes James,
that was my point. God is still creating in this world. It is quite amazing when you think in those terms. Jesus return will be the “Morning star” of the seventh day. The sixth day is when man was created. Man that thinks he is god, will not be allowed to enter into God’s rest. Only man who understands his role as servant will.

As for the 2300 days, the language does not support your use of it as a proof. Could God use it, possibly, but I am suspicious of timelines that do. Evenings and mornings alone indicate 24 hr days. And we have a fulfillment of this with antiochus epiphanes during the intertestamental time period, which is what the Jews celebrate Channukah for.

Actually, Daniel used a day for a day.
Daniel 12:12 Blessed is he that waiteth, and cometh to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days.
45 years is a rather long period for learning endurance and how do the 1290 days fit into your interpretation?

Gyod
598bc -691ad=1290 dome of the rock (a type of abomination) Add 1335=2026? Coincidently 688ad-1948=1260 a full cycle of seven years in days including the leap month. 688 is the approx. start date of the dome of the rock.
598 is the official start of the Babylonian captivity, when the temple was looted, and the treasures taken out of the temple, thus no more sacrifices, or prescence of God. 586bc, is the destruction of Jerusalem. The abomination is SET UP, as in a building. In other places, as in the 2300 days, we have the abomination as an act.

I find it amusing to read all these debates over DAYS = Years and DAYS = 1000 years, all because of 4 passages in scripture which have absolutely NO connection with any MAN made theory that prophecy has to be interpreted with a so-called “PRINCIPLE”.
Peter compares time with God – who does not live with time like humanity, as he is ALWAYS there, for He said that He is the I AM, not the I WAS, or the I WILL BE, so a day with the Lord is as 1000years and a 1000years is like ONE day.
Nebuchadnezzar was warned by the angel that if he would BOAST, he would spend 7years in the field. The fulfillment of that prophecy or “Threat”, was 2,527…DAYS, and NOT 2,527years! Another example is Jonah, who Prophesied Nineveh would be destroyed in 40days, and he would be just as illogical as some, to wait for the prediction (If he MEANT 40years!) to be fulfilled.
I believe God has a plan, whereby he gives HINTS of the final EVENTS that were to take place in the TIME of the END.
Jesus’ 3yrs 6months ministry BEGAN with a Wedding, where His first Miracle was turning WATER to WINE; His Ministry ENDS with DEATH to SIN, where He died, taking our place, so WE can LIVE as HE deserved.
The 3yrs 6months at the END (1,260days) will have a WEDDING to be attended by the “BRIDE” and LATER, just before the very END, the WICKED, or ones who do NOT accept Jesus’ SACRIFICE will DIE, and NOT have a substitute like Barrabus had.
Luke 12:36. And ye yourselves like unto men that wait for their lord, when he will return from the wedding; that when he cometh and knocketh, they may open unto him immediately.
This text points to the fact that AFTER the 5 WISE go to the Wedding there is a return for those who go THROUGH the Tribulation in the end time.

Olaf,
I have not asked God to reveal his dates, or his plans, but he has chosen to. The Holy Spirit is my guide on this stuff. The only thing that the study of dates has led to in my life is praise and worship of him who wrote the end from the begginning, and the beginning from the end. Quite frankly, It is as close to proof that God exists as we will find in this world. It is as close to proving to the hardened heart of the jewish people that Jesus is their Messiah. It is amazingly beautiful! I am not boasting in myself, I am glorifying the “I am”, the “Existing One”, as it all points to his glorious plan, from beginning to end.

You, are more than welcome to ignore it.

Seeing as you like to come and accuse others, however, indicates that you have no desire to interact, only to exalt yourself. Sounds like you have already chosen your “lot” in Life. God has chosen mine for me. You really should consider submitting your will to his, as then he will call you one of his possesions? But for some reason, I do not think you will?

1290 years – That would be clearly a time span that no one would survive. But at the end of Daniel you can see that you can live through the whole time span. Besides, during the 1290 years from the destruction of the first temple, the sacrifice was already restored once. In Daniel there will be no more sacrifice from the time it ceases until the end.

Gyod,
The word Translated “waiteth for” in Daniel 12:12 is “Chakah” which has as one of its definitions to “Long for”. This concept has precedence in NT prophecy in that we are to long for Jesus coming again. I see your point, as it seems to indicate one life time, and I am not denying that there may be a end time literal days fulfillment of this. but verses 9-10 indicate that there is a “Puzzle” to be figured out in these statements.

every body thinks 2012 in dec will end nobody knows that because jesus said he will come but he never told anybody when he will come so why dont every stop this nonsenc an just an get down on your kness pry to him

dan,
I don’t think any knowledgeable Christian believes in the Mayan prophecy or that Jesus will return this year. There are no signs of His return yet. The tribulation has yet to begin, the seals are not yet opened.
But read further in Mat:24 and you will see that Jesus tells us that we must always be looking for His return so we are not surprised like most people will be.

Mat 24:42 Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.
Mat 24:43 But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up.
Mat 24:44 Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.

He tells us to watch and be ready for His return. True, right now we don’t know exactly when He will return, but we know it will be 3-1/2 years after the two witnesses appear in Jerusalem and very shortly after their resurrection, 3-1/2 days after they are killed.
We also know that He will return on the Feast of Trumpets, so as soon as the witnesses appear, we will know the year and the day. Close enough for government work.
Jesus wants His followers to know when He will be coming and to prophesy to the entire world.
That is the purpose of this blog. To get prepared. Will you be ready or will you just forget about prophecy and be surprised when he arrives? It’s your choice.Choose wisely…
Bless.

we are close…my dream on March 5, 2012 the Lord said quit looking for the covenant, we are in the final 7 years now. The next thing to look for is the Abomination of Desolation. Long story but I can assure you we are in the final years. I am watching closely for the mid trib point…the Abomination. Get ready, prepare your hearts, and prepare for food, water….for you, your family, and anyone the Lord sends your way to share with. The mark of the beast will take many by surprise.

Hey Deb,
Just wondering what you believe the abomination will be. Supposedly the Antichrist will place a statue in the Jewish temple which does not yet exist, nor is the Antichrist in power yet, so what do we look for?
And what will the mark be, that will surprise so many people?
I’m sure we all would like to be prepared.
Bless.

Well, I believe the Abomination also is someone claiming to be Jesus Christ. I wish I could tell you exactly if the statue will be placed in a Jewish Temple. I have been diligently studying the book of Revelation, Daniel, the Gospels and of course every scripture the study of eschatology leads you to when studying. The Lord has worked miracles in my life over the last year. The Holy Spirit literally moves in my belly ( yep) moves…like millions of butterflies. As, I got on my knees Good Friday of 2011…crying out to the Lord, I told him I would seek him like I never in my life have, and study as I have never in my life his Holy Word. I delved into scripture…ate, drank and literally slept it so it seemed. I asked God as I got on my knees for the truths I needed on what happened to my son 23 years ago…sexual abuse related and I needed so desparately for the truth of who did it, and prayed for the hurts of what it had done to our family all these years. My specific words to the Lord were, I need the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth. I did not have any idea that he would give me what I asked for an MUCH MORE than I asked for as well. I started studying for hours every night…for months, but as I began to study I got so confused on all this pre trib, post trib, the Book of Daniel interpretations and had NO CLUE what was the truth and which direction to study. He started moving in me leading me which direction to go. I was amazed….still am every day actually as the Holy Spirit leads my life by moving in me daily, all day…directing my thought, my actions. I cannot even have an “attitude” with anyone 🙂 without him moving in me stopping me immediately ( when it is not how Jesus would react). When I am sad, He comforts me when I am sad, when I am studying He directs me, when I am studying information that is not accurate He does not move in me at all or He moves in a different way than when it is “good”. He let me know when my car was going to break down,He allows me to know when certain demons are present by moving in me in a “different” way. He let me know when I am making a wrong turn one day while out driving ( or tried to …I did not realize what He was doing until after I made the wrong turn), He moved in me when I was out driving one day and there was a man on the side of the street selling newspapers, I asked Him Lord do you want me to go buy one? is there something about the man you are trying to tell me. Well…he moved in me Yes…so I did turn around and bought a newspaper and it was a homeless man that was selling this paper that is called “The Contributor” which is a paper that allows the homeless to make money. I realized that God wanted me to help him. So..I did and still do on a regular basis. I cannot begin to tell you all that has happened. But all this said, as I was contemplating the convenant everyone is looking for to start the final 7 years of the 70th week…I kept thinking that satan would not surely want those diligently watching to know when it was signed. This would be way to much information for Christians to know how close we are to the end ( and in my “spirit” I had this forboding we were very close..and my son that was sexually abused had not given his life to the Lord and I feared he would go to hell to be honest and this is part of what sent me to my knees ( a small portion of what sent me to my knees). So for some reason for a few weeks as I studied I kept searching for something I thought might be the “covenant with many”…well, on March 5, 2012 the Lord woke me sometime in the middle of the night by literally moving in my stomach ) like He does when he is telling me a definite answer…like a yes answer to a question I might have. He woke me very firmly like millions of butterflies tapping inside my stomach…and when I woke, he gave me these words “Quit looking for the covenant, it has happened”. I said Lord did you wake me so that I would remember this “dream” as he had given me those words while I was sleeping. He moved in me and said “Yes, Yes, Yes”…So, I then went back to sleep and I do not know how much longer went by, not long I don’t think and He woke me again. I immediately rememebered these words…”the next thing you need to look for is the Abomination of Desolation”…I again asked him, Lord did you wake me so I would remember these words? Well..again, he moved and moved and said YES…So…I am looking…watching, waiting…I am watching for I think that what will happen is the “antichrist” will call himself “God”…I do not know if it will be from the temple. I have to be honest, I don’t know. I also don’t know if it will be an “out there in your face” thing in the beginning either. I think it could be a subtle thing in the beginnning… but again, I do not know that. All I know is I am praying, watching and still studying. Even before the “dream” I did not believe in Pretrib rapture like so many preachers are teaching ( false teaching…well the ones that are even talking about it. I cannot find a preacher one that will even discuss it with me AT ALL). I know we will go through much of the tribulation. I have not come to a absolutely certain conclusion yet and honestly I am not sure I am going to be able to…I just know that I am preparing Food, Water, and more food…to share with family, friends, and my neighbors…as I dont’ think anyone I know is preparing. They won’t even discuss the end of time much less even consider we have to prepare. Now..for the mark of the beast…well, all I know it says we will have to take a mark to “buy or sell”…so, i tend to think the mark will have to do with our money system somehow…and that is why we can be deceived if we are not faithfully studying and watching. Personally, I think that the economy is going to collapse soon and that people will do “anything” …and will be promised the moon…and to “not worry”…we will help you, fix this…etc. Again, I don’t know this but I am like I said, preparing, watching, praying and studying.

Marianne, I’m with you on this one, if we are true and faithfull we will rise up to meet the Lord at his comming. He will cleanse the earth of all wickedness, and the lion will lie down with the lamb. It will not only be Christians that rise up, but all the rightous of every denomination and creed who’s lives are such that they can abide his Glory when He comes. Mal chp3 v 16,17. also Mal chp 4 v 1,2,3,4.

I think what is happening to me is part of Joel 2:28…He has poured out his Holy Spirit on me like I have never heard…I am so grateful for our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. Also, the moving in my stomach he is doing John 7:38 explains it…He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water. This is the KJV…most all other versions have replaced “belly” with “heart”…big difference.

deb
zech.13:1, ezek. 47, john 4:, the woman at the well/ living water.
We are his temple. The drink offerings are associated with the feast of booths. I believe that Jesus changing the water to wine also plays a role. Like I do not quite understand alienated, I do not quite understand this, but the Spirit in me receives your outpouring. Please take the time to read those passages and see if they speak to you. I Pulled the first two out of MacArthurs comments on the verse. I suggest you take the time to read the notes that Macarthur wrote on all those verses, as they will help you understand. I do not always agree with Mac Arthur, but he is pretty thourough in his studies.

I will read the verses you recommended. Thank you for suggesting and I will also read what Mac Arthur has to say on them. I completely understand that you don’t quite understand this believe me…I was and still am taken by surprise and amazement sometimes that it is really happening. It took me a while to come to understand just exactly what was happening. The Lord literally cleansed me from the very depths of my soul to the very outer being. I pray that I stand worthy upon his return. And I pray that I am doing what he wants me to do with the information he gave me in my dream. I am just trying to shout it to as many people as I can and am putting out flyers in mailboxes in my town…that he is coming soon. Prepare your hearts!! and…prepare your necessary supplies …for the tribulation that is to come and stand firm In Jesus Christ.

Ah….Ezekiel 47, The River of Healing. How that spoke to me. Thank you so much for sharing that with me. I also read John 4…the woman at the well, spoke to my heart as well. now…Zech..13:1. I shall read.

Thank you for sending me the scripture. I just read Zechariah 13…it spoke ot my heart immensely….not just 13:1 but 13:1-9. I absolutley he is refining my heart to be completely in his will and that time was/is short.

Amen Deb.
I do not understand all of this, but each of us has a certain calling. Read 2 Peter. where he talks about making our election and calling “sure”, and keep listening to his “voice”, as in “He who has an ear let him hear”. The letters to the churches have been very helpful as well, as we all fit into one of them as overcomers.

Just so you know, I am aware of Ezekiel 13.
There are many false prophets on this site unfortunately. Too many have their ears tickled in listening to them, rather than The HOLY SPIRIT.
I charge all of 2 Peter 2 to them.
I SEE NO PEACE FOR ISRAEL OR JERUSALEM. (1 Thessalonians 5:3.)

This will not be limited to just that of Israel. It will be World Wide!!!

35 For as a snare shall it come on all them that dwell on the face of the whole earth.
36 Watch ye therefore, and pray always , that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass , and to stand before the Son of man. (Luke 21:35,36. KJV.)

G-D’s mercy extends to all of his creation, from the greatest to the miniscule. We are placed on this earth to prove ouselves worthy. The law of adoption will aply to all, no matter their limited understanding, religion or creed, who have tried to follow their concience; and lead a good life. The next millenium will be spent teaching those who are now spirits the Gospel, that they may know Christ and repent of their sins and enter into the fold, and receive their inheritance.

Where do you get that idea from? Certainly not from the bible. Why did Jesus warn the Jews:”John 8:24 I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.”

Are you talking about spiritual death or physical death. G-D is a just G-D he loves all of his creation except those who are past redemption, e.g. Satan and his followers, and those who in this life who sinned against knowledge. Rev 22 v 15. But hope for those who believe on his name, and did good works Rev 22 v 14
Jesus condemned the Jews of his time because they had the O. T. Prophets who testified of his coming and they also had the witness of Him being amongst them, ignoring the signs he presented to them. therefor they were condemmed by their works. There are those who during the last six millenium have not heard of Christ or his Gospel. Do you condem them because of circumstances beyond their control ? If so may you perish in your sins as the Jews.
read Rev chp 2 en toto. Pay attention to verse 13. it says EVERY creature. If
G-D created them , he will save them, or provide the means for them to be saved. If they are incapable of sin, then they are sinless, and entitled to live with G-D in his kingdom. Read 1 Corinthians en toto. Paul says chp 15 v 39, 40, 41, 42, he talks about what ? The resurection, of ALL things. The degrees of Glory that will be their eternal dwelling place.
Finaly remember it was initially the rightous Jews who followed the Apostles and formed the apostolic Church, these were followed by the Gentiles. The Acts chp 10.
Gyod excuse me for speaking harshly, but untill you know your Bible back to front and understand the Love of G-D, don’t be critical of things you don’t understand Zec chp7 v 9. and a question for you, why do you think there is a thousand years before the end judgement? Are we just going to sit around and eat grapes and honey and play harps. There are those resurected and living on the earth during the millenium who are not all Christians. Zec chp 14 v 16, 17, 18, 19. Don’t you think there will be a great work to convert these people?

I certainly do not claim infallibility but I am still not convinced. When Paul speaks in 1. Cor. v15 of all he means all that are Christ.
Paul also speaks of those not under the law in Rom 2v12.
As to millennium, I think, this is the rest that God promised that is still to come. However I do still have a few questions about that. My best guess is that those surviving the tribulation without taking the mark, are the nations that are spoken about in Rev 20v8.
Teaching the gentiles for a thousand years? Are they so hard to teach that this should take that long? What about:”It is given for man to die once and then the judgment?”
So what about Zec. 7v9? Look, I would be most happy to be wrong. I do not demand this harsh judgment of God but I take seriously the warning to enter narrow gate and to not trust in my own righteousness.
“If so, may you perish in your sins” Excuse me? We may have different opinions but that is not justified.

GOD IS A HOLY AND JUST GOD!
HE HAS THROUGH THE COMMANDMENT, (TORAH), OF HIS SON, TOLD THE WORLD WHAT IT TAKES TO BE SAVED.
IT IS TO BE BORN AGAIN THROUGH THE HOLY SPIRIT.
TO ACCEPT THE BLOOD AND SACRIFICE OF HIS SON FOR YOUR SINS.

YESHUA SAID HIMSELF, ” I AM THE WAY, THE TRUTH, AND THE LIFE: NO MAN COMETH UNTO THE FATHER, BUT BY ME.”

SO, YOU ARE EITHER WITH THEM IN SPIRIT, OR YOU ARE NOT.
GOD HAS GIVEN JUDGMENT TO HIS SON.
IF YOU ARE NOT WITH THE SON, HE DOES NOT KNOW YOU.

GOD IS HOLY AND JUDGES BASED ON THAT.
IF YOU ARE WITH THEM IN SPIRIT, AND ABIDE IN THE TRUE VINE, AND WALK IN THE SPIRIT, YOU ARE HIS, AND NOTHING CAN PLUCK YOU OUT OF HIS GLORIOUS HAND. AMEN.

I agree with David on this one. The world will go on during the millennium with perhaps 3 billion survivors of the tribulation, many of whom will not know Jesus. And civilization will go on for 100 years0, with billions of more people being born and dying etc, so there will be plenty of teaching to be done. Just look at how much has been done in the last 2000 years – lots of humanity today does not know Jesus.
And don’t forget the second resurrection at the end of the millennium. Billions more will need to learn the gospel.
Despite popular opinion, I don’t believe every Christian will be raptured or resurrected at the second coming. According to Revelation those from the first resurrection will be priests in the millennium. Certainly not every Christian that ever lived is destined to be a priest/teacher for 1000 years. Especially those from apostate churches. For example, many churches today preach that the 10 commandments are null and void and that all you need to do is to say you believe in Jesus and you are saved.
Without the law there is no sin. Without sin there can be no judgement of the wicked. Those who will teach in the millennium will be teaching the commandments, and while Christ is in charge you better believe they will be in force.
No-one of course is without sin, so we will be graded on our worthiness. Even Paul teaches this. (Those who do no good works will be least in the kingdom of heaven, etc.) and only God knows how many priests will be needed so just pray we will all be on the list. But I don’t think there will be a lot of free passes.
David is right about having to read entire chapters and not to pull selected verses out of context and leave out the rest. I have been fooled by many false teachers who support their ideas with lots of verses from all over the bible, but when you read the complete book/chapter, you get a very different picture.
I have learned to be very skeptical and to never take anything at face value. It all must also make sense and fit into God’s overall plan. For example, why would God write His commandments in stone, then cancel them through innuendo in apostles’ letters rather than having Jesus clearly state that the commandments are no longer to be obeyed. Or that He gives His church permission to change the Sabbath to Sunday and to pray to statues etc. Yet many people have made a case for these changes and many others.
Personally, I think it is a bad idea to think like this. But it’s a free religion, you can believe what you want. Just to be safe, I would come up with a really good excuse so when judgement day comes and you stand before your Lord, you can let Him know why you rejected His commandments.Know what I mean?

James, what you say, makes a lot of sense to me. My problem is/was that I thought, that since all have sinned and the angels will collect all that do offend and do iniquity there will be no one left behind after Armageddon.
John said:”Bring fruits worthy of repentance.” So without change your confession of faith is without substance.
Concerning the millennium, it is said that the Word of God will go out from Jerusalem. However I doubt that we will teach because they will all know God from the least to the greatest.
What Israel and peace is concerned, except for a short period of peace, I am afraid, that it will suffer a devastating military defeat before the Lord will rescue it.

the saviors word to Nicodemus was” No man can enter into the Kingdom of Heaven save he be born again” John chp 3.v 1 to v 5.
We must have faith in the Lord Jesus Christ. Witness.
Repent of our sins. Humility.
Be Baptised by immersion. Ressurection.
Receive the Gift of the Holy Ghost by the laying on of hands, Sanctification.

We are the first Christians. When whe worshipped Jesus your forefathers didn´t know who he was. We know that Jesus words was not fulfilled when he said he will be gone 3 days and 3 nights. Jesus was captured on a wednesday = sad day = fast day. He was killed on a friday = sad day = fast day. Jesus resurrected on a sunday = happy day = free day.
Mine forefathers knew more than you will ever know.
Aramaics forever!

Adam as Jonah was three days in the belly of the whale so would Christ be three days preaching in the belly of the earth and he would take a host with Him to heaven which is why there were many that had been dead and were seen walking in Jerusalem. Which is why when He returns the Dead in Christ since after He rose shall rise first before we are changed to eternal time. And yes you are right about the days. The Catholic church mixed it up for their own reasons and most Protestant churches did not bother to correct though I do not think He will get upset with us for their follies or our misconceptions.

Mathew 12: 40
40 For as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of the great fish, so will the Son of Man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.

Ephesians 4: 8-10
8 Therefore He says:“When He ascended on high,
He led captivity captive,And gave gifts to men.”[b]
9 (Now this, “He ascended”—what does it mean but that He also first[c] descended into the lower parts of the earth? 10 He who descended is also the One who ascended far above all the heavens, that He might fill all things.)

Even common gentiles like me know it too Adam and I am so grateful to the Jewish people and Nation for having kept these oracles of God and their studies for us to use to understand these things for we cannot understand it alone.

For those who wonder what we do during the Millenium.
Metal industry, beat swords into plowshares
Festivals, each year travel to Jerusalem for the Feast of the Tabernacles, and I suppose other Holy Feast’s.
Farming to feed the people
Road making.
Building houses, Churches, and schools etc.
In fact build an infrasructure similar to what we have today.
And, as I said before, Missionary work.

I am not sure of what your thrust is in these scriptures. Perhaps you could enlighten me, my understanding is as follows
They all mention Zion as a different place to Jerusalem, something I have known for years The word from one and the law from the other.
Jeremiah was a OT prophet of great power, called the people to repentance at a very difficult time in their history. He talks about the hieght of Zion’s desolation. and the punishment of false prophets. Lamentation again mentions Zion. Joel. A awarning is given to Zion but is promised that it will be the Lords dwelling place in the last days. Micah mentions the destruction of Zion, but promises it will be G-D’s dwelling place in the last days. Zechariah is a brilliant book covering a great time span, and a lot of plain information, he talks about the riegn of the Lord in the Millenium. Contains the scripture that I implied about the Feast of the Tabernacles chp 14 v 6.
As I said, Zion and Jerusalem, two different places, if you can enlighten me as to where Zion is I’d be delighted. Perhaps its the region of Israel at the division of the Kingdom prior to the ten tribes going into captivity?
Yes Jerusalem will be a different place. The earthqauke will destroy a third of the city Rev Chp 14, v 1.Jesus stands on Mount Sion (not Zion) The city, The Holy Jerusalem descending out of Heaven Rev chp 21 v.10 onwards. Yes a frightening and glorious time.
Perhaps when the earth comes together again as it was in the days of the patriachs, (remember it was divided in the days of Peleg) the City of Zion may again be revealed.
I would like to point out that prophecy in the OT is not consecative but jumps around in time, Deep prayer and study is required, to unravel mysteries

Yes I know, but it doesn’t fit in the big picture. A lot happens here, it must be seperate from Jerusalem, hence my pondering. The above from alienated was a list of Zion’s mentioned in a concordance. I didn’t get the gist of his comment.
If one does a study of all the things that happen at this place, mount zion Jerusalem cannot be the ZION. All nations shall flow unto it. Law from one, word from the other? A puzzle to ponder

there are 4 quarters – Jew, Chiristian, Armenean, Muslim along with the Temple mount area, which is controlled by the Muslims now. …so there is essentially Jew + armenean areas are blended 1/3,christian 1/3 , and muslim 1/3.

Hebrews 12
22But you have come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to myriads of angels, 23to the general assembly and church of the firstborn who are enrolled in heaven, and to God, the Judge of all, and to the spirits of the righteous made perfect, 24and to Jesus, the mediator of a new covenant

Alienated. Thank you for the complement, but don’t sell yourself short. The humble shepherds were the first to be told of the Saviours birth. The Saviour said in a parable” You can’t put new wine in old bottles”. The gospel is free to all men(persons) one cant be sexist these days. The Lord also said that the Holy Ghost will enlighten ALL (rightous)men. This is a fast and pray job for me. A mystery to occupy my mind.
Marianne, yes the religous divisions of Jerusalem are an interesting point. Did you know that the Armenians were the first nation to be converted to Christianity, and have suffered terribly at the hands of Muslims,and other conqurers, and were the victims of genocide under Atta Turk the Turkish general in ww1. Jerusalem the City of David, definatly a favoured place throughout the scriptures, and the Saviour will visit and show himself to the Jews at his second coming. Will also be the place of the Tree of Life and the Spring of living water from under the Temple. Yet one third will be destroyed by an earth quake, and then invaded by the forces of Satan. Will be the place of the New Jerusalem, descending from Heaven.
In Kings 1 chp 8 v 1 The city of David is called Zion. At the moment I feel that Zion is a state of mind, or a collection (congregation)of rightous people. The place Jerusalem. Another hidden place in the World. The yet to be returned City of Enoch.
Isaiah chp 2 v 2, 3. ” For out of Zion shall go forth the Law, and the Word of the Lord from Jerusalem. These words nag me for it intimates two seperate places.
I appreciate the input so far from you my friends, I fast and pray.

Alienated from the world, and dedicated to the Word.
No this world is not your home, as it is not the home of all who Walk with the Spirit, and the Lord and King. Once you have walked with God, who wants to be part of this world of sin?

David Morris,
Regarding Jerusalem; The physical city has been destroyed many times. Just as we die to this world, and are Born of Spirit, so too will it be for Jerusalem in the near future. Psalm 127 Is a psalm of Solomon, the builder of his day. Even his city was destroyed. It will no longer be a city of man, but a city and dwelling of the King of Kings, Therefore it will be rebuilt by God. Each time Jerusalem has been destroyed, It has marked the end of an age. We are coming to the end of another age. Then the new Jerusalem will be built, Upon the foundation of the patriarchs, the covennents, the Law, The 12 tribes of Israel, Jesus death on the cross, and The sanctified and tranformed sons of God, which we are witnessing the firstfruits thereof. (This is how cities are rebuilt, the old foundations are buried under the new)

If you are his, and the Holy Spirit is within you, Then you are one of seven! Make room (Choreo) and receive the others, and be transformed. Some have a hard time receivng the Spirit to the Laodicean church. They see the Spirit in me as the enemy, an apostate Spirit if you will, or a house divided. Alienated has now received the fullness of the Spirit, he is filled to overflowing with the “Oil”. Each of us, who have the Holy Spirit, have one of seven Spirits of the Lord. We also have one Spirit of the seven that we have a hard time receiving. For me it was the Philadelphian Spirit. I viewed them as “elitist, and snobs”, saying they are the true remnant church. But the Holy Spirit allowed me to “make room” for the Spirit of the Philadelphians. I now understand how they along with the others fit into God’s “revelation”, and plan to defeat his adversaries. The Spirit who loves the Law, oppose the one that understands “liberty from the law”. The Ones that see themselves set apart (holy unto the Lord), do not understand the Lukewarm Spirit, that is wrapped up in the things of this world. The ones that suffer persecution, do not understand the ones that have to overcome seduction. But God has a plan, and a glorious one indeed. But before God can build the body he must destroy the Old.

We are approaching the dawn of a new day. But unlike most false religions, and new age philosophies, We will not become “Little gods”, but will rather be transformed into a new creation, A new man, a new servant, a new “Gardener” and steward of the land. As adopted, as opposed to begotten, sons of God, we will inherit the riches of his Kingdom whilst not receiving the kingship, which belongs to Christ Jesus alone, the Worthy Lamb. God’s choice to adopt us is Love beyond measure, grace beyond grace, and mercy beyond mercy. The only response we will, or can have is “HOLY, HOLY, HOLY; WORTHY IS THE LAMB.” That, and laying down our lives for those who are not his children, as a testimony of His Glorious salvation!

I hope you are rested, and well feed. Perhaps, some coffee too. I have been reading you posts as always, but not posting.

Friday I was working on my middle of nowhere creek bottom 40ac. After working for 4hrs, I laid in my hammock to rest, and ponder the meaning of life.

As you know, this life is meaningless without G-d. A G-d that died for his creation because he loved us so much. I hope you are correct, and the rapture is soon. As long as my daughter, and wife make the first cut, I will be free to go where the Lord leads me.

I have not seen visions like you, but I am lead by the Holy Spirit lately to do things. Just as I was lead into the Marine Corp, or to marry my wife. It is an over powering feeling of confidence I am doing what I should do to be ready.

Your writings are sane. Therefore, I fear you are correct, and are telling the truth. I fear, because I fear G-d’s wrath. Which falls on the just, and the unjust.

Has anyone considered the following scenario?
Rev.6:12. And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;
13. And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.
14. And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.
15. And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;
16. And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:
17. For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

For it is also given in:- Rev.16:17. And the seventh angel poured out his vial into the air; and there came a great voice out of the temple of heaven, from the throne, saying, It is done.
18. And there were voices, and thunders, and lightnings; and there was a great earthquake, such as was not since men were upon the earth, so mighty an earthquake, [and] so great.
19. And the great city was divided into three parts, and the cities of the nations fell: and great Babylon came in remembrance before God, to give unto her the cup of the wine of the fierceness of his wrath.
20. And every island fled away, and the mountains were not found.

As I imagine, this gives a description of Earth being BOMBARDED with large METEORS which smash the crust on earth and makes this earth ONE BIG SEA of glass-like LAVA, destroying everything ON and IN the crust. The clouds and seas would evaporate because of the tremendous HEAT on the SURFACE, causing the HEAVEN to DEPART like a scroll.
Because of this scenario, NOTHING living on Earth will survive. All Virus and Bacteria will also be destroyed.

Isaiah 66:15. For, behold, the LORD will come with fire, and with his chariots like a whirlwind, to render his anger with fury, and his rebuke with flames of fire.
Rev.20:10. And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet [are], and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
Rev.19:20. And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshiped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

Is this scenario in the beginning of the Millennium or at the SECOND Resurrection after the NEW Jerusalem comes back from Heaven?

Rev.20:2. And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
3. And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

For the WICKED are DESTROYED when Jesus returns and Resurrects the Righteous DEAD. …of which there are Martyrs from the tribulation of 1,150days (2,300 evenings and Mornings)

Rev.20:4. And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and [I saw] the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshiped the beast, neither his image, neither had received [his] mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and THEY LIVED and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

There seems to be a SECOND Resurrection (now of the WICKED) … after the Millennium!
Rev.20:7. And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
8. And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom [is] as the sand of the sea.

Rev.20:6. Blessed and holy [is] he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
It appears that New Jerusalem are God’s FAMILY – (Bride + Children)
(144,000 + Remnant of her SEED) – (First fruits + Harvest)

Rev.12:14. And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.
17. And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

Olaf,
Your question is a bit convoluted since you quoted Revelation repeatedly out of order and threw in a couple other prophets to boot, but I think I get what you’re saying.
There are in fact two resurrections. The first, when Jesus returns, will be the righteous from the true church (those without the mark) who will be priests and teachers during the millennium. At that time the wicked will be destroyed but will be resurrected at the end of the millennium along with everyone else who ever lived and died. There will be a time when the gospel will go out to all these people, many of whom will have never heard of Jesus, and they will be given a choice between eternal life under God, or final death in the lake of fire. At this time Satan will be let loose from his chains to tempt these people in order to separate the wheat from the chaff so to speak, to be sure only those true believers amongst them will make it into the kingdom of God.
Once the devil has done his work, he will be disposed of for good.
Then comes the Great White Throne Judgement where final judgement will be rendered. The true believers will enter the New City which descends from heaven and the rest are left outside to be destroyed by fire and ice – God’s favorite weapons.
Re-read the last chapters of Revelation and see if this doesn’t all make sense now.
Hope this helps.
Bless.

The false image of God is already set up in the temple and the church is worshiping it. What temple made with hands already exists where we have access all over the world 24/7? The Holy Bible is the temple where people go to worship God. But as Matthew 24:40 tells us, “Then shall 2 be in the field. What is found in a field? Only wheat? No, you find wheat, stones, dung, snakes, scorpions, thorns, and thistles.

The field is the world and the L is silent. The field is the WORD and there are two in that field. One represents the Lamb and the other represents the Dagon. What does Revelation say the woman (church) would ride? The dragon.

The true and false image of God found in the same book resulting in confusion by mixing.

Definition of the word Babylon = “Confusion by mixing”

Ezekiel 4 = The bread (Word) is mixed with dung

Example of confusion by mixing:

Victory in Jesus = Most will be lost

Revelation 11 says, “Rise and measure the temple and them that worship there….” = Wake up and do the math

Loving patient merciful God = If you do not bend the knee to Him, you will suffer alive in hell for eternity.

There is no greater violent act one can conceive in there mind than “Eternal suffering,” and it is 100% opposite of the description of God found in 1 Corinthians 13.

Everything is math logic. “Then shall two be in the field…” and we’ve already chosen one or the other. John Hagee is calling for a premptive attack on Iran. He is endorsing the death of one people to protect another. Which one do you think he has chosen, the lamb or the dragon? Listen to him yourself

Yes Lord, let us call down fire from Heaven to destroy them right now!
Hold it right there. You do not know what manner of spirit ye are of.
So, we should be cautious to give such advice to worldly leaders. They may listen to us.

I am with you Mariane. There comes a time when patience and long suffering cease to become a virtue. The bible O.T. has lots of stories re lomg suffering. Gideon and the Midionites. David when hunted by Saul, even slept in the same cave with him un benown to Saul yet David did not take advantage of Saul.
Trust in God always but every one has the right to defend them selves and family and others against agression. David and Goliath is a good example.

I am sorry but he does not. What’s the use of pointing this out, when he got killed anyway. The righteous followed the tradition of the faithful believers as described in Heb 11 to obtain a better resurrection. What you propose sound more like a muslim to me. He got killed but only because he ran out on ammunition.

What’s the difference between the Iranian leader and John Hagee? What happens if you bomb a nuclear facility? Again, we need to do the math. If you bomb a nuclear facilty, radiation spreads far beyond Iran.

Do good to those who hate you cannot = Bomb their nuclear facilities and spread radiation all over the world.

Everything you believe about Iran is based soley on what you’ve heard on the news and nothing else. Hitler said, “To get the people to go along with what you want, all you have to do is tell them they are being attacked.”

Do the math……The beast is asking you to endorse murder in the name of protecting other people.

YESHUA’S own Prayer to the ALMIGHTY FATHER GOD regarding all that would believe in HIM and adore HIM.

16 They are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.
17 Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.
18 As thou hast sent me into the world, even so have I also sent them into the world.
19 And for their sakes I sanctify myself, that they also might be sanctified through the truth.
20 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;
21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.
22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:
23 I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.
24 Father, I will that they also, whom thou hast given me, be with me where I am ; that they may behold my glory, which thou hast given me: for thou lovedst me before the foundation of the world.
25 O righteous Father, the world hath not known thee: but I have known thee, and these have known that thou hast sent me.
26 And I have declared unto them thy name, and will declare it: that the love wherewith thou hast loved me may be in them, and I in them.

In keeping with the TITLE of this discourse, I would like to suggest the following:- It would appear that everything recorded in the Bible, with regards to future happenings, has had a bearing on the LAST Generation on Earth that fulfils the PLAN of Salvation in putting an END to the REBELLION which started when Lucifer/Satan/Devil/etc, tried to usurp the position of YHWH, or who most people refer to as God. Here is reference to this idea of “Shadows of THINGS to COME. Col.2: 16. Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath [days]:17. Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body [is] of Christ.
Daniel 8:17. …he said unto me, Understand, O son of man: for at the time of the end [shall be] the vision. //19. …Behold, I will make thee know what shall be in the last end of the indignation: for at the time appointed the end [shall be]. Daniel 11: 27….: for yet the end [shall be] at the time appointed. 35. And [some] of them of understanding shall fall, to try them, and to purge, and to make [them] white, [even] to the time of the end: because [it is] yet for a time appointed. 40. And at the time of the end …
This LAST generation referred to by Jesus is a “Generation that doesn’t pass till ALL those things (prophesied previously) are FULFILED” found in Matt.24:34 & Mark 13:30 & Luke 21:32. To get the ROUGH outline of the LAST period in TIME we look at Daniel, as Jesus referred to that prophet to UNDERSTAND the events that would be taking place…& WHEN they were taking place. What we fail to understand, is that these PREDICTIONS would NOT be understood BEFORE the LAST generation commenced for Daniel was ordered to SEAL (perfectly, ie, 7x)…” Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, [even] to the time of the end: (Dan.12:4) and a second time; …”And he said, Go thy way, Daniel: for the words [are] closed up and sealed till the time of the end. (Dan.12:9.)
In the TIME of the END, Jesus Himself was the one who would UNSEAL the PROPHECIES of Daniel! It is recorded in Revelation 5: 1. And I saw in the right hand of him that sat on the throne a book written within and on the backside, sealed with seven seals. 2. And I saw a strong angel proclaiming with a loud voice, Who is worthy to open the book, and to loose the seals thereof? 3. And no man in heaven, nor in earth, neither under the earth, was able to open the book, neither to look thereon. 9. And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;
As Daniel’s Book is, I believe, UNSEALED, we can begin to UNERSTAND what it all MEANT! …Firstly the TITLE is, 144,000 and the 2 Witnesses. As stated earlier, these 2 witnesses are CHARACTERS who were introduced to the Bible reader in the OLD and later appeared in the NEW Testament as God’s TWO lights, or Ambassadors. We are told that “IN the last days (generation?) we would have these two SENT to us. Mal.4: 4. Remember ye the law of Moses my servant, which I commanded unto him in Horeb for all Israel, [with] the statutes and judgments. 5. Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the LORD:
The “Shadow”, as it were, is the INCIDENT just before Jesus had to “drink the bitter cup” of Calvary. Luke 9: 30. And, behold, there talked with him two men, which were Moses and Elias: 31. Who appeared in glory, and spake of his decease which he should accomplish at Jerusalem.
These 2 Witnesses were to PROPHESY for 1,260 days (3years 6months) and the PRECURSER, or Shadow is found in the writings of Jesus’ ½ brother:- James 5: 17. Elias was a man subject to like passions as we are, and he prayed earnestly that it might not rain: and it rained not on the earth by the space of three years and six months.
Rev.11: 3. And I will give [power] unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred [and] threescore days, clothed in sackcloth. 7. And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.
Rev.11:6. These have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy: and have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to smite the earth with all plagues, as often as they will.
This verse identifies these 2, as these things are what they did to ISRAEL, but NOW, the JUDGEMENT will involve the WORLD. Many people try explaining these witnesses as the Old and New Testaments, while others will explain that it will be someone like John the Baptist (Jesus’ cousin) and some other person professing to be his companion.
These 2 Witnesses are going to resurrect after 3.5 days. Rev.11: 11. And after three days and an half the Spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them. 12. And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them.
If we read further, we find that the 2nd and 3rd woe follows, and the 7th angel’s TRUMPET is blown.
In the “Shadows” of Israel’s Feast “Sabbaths”, we find the “feast of Trumpets” marked the NEW YEAR. As the 7th New Year is ushered in, The “Curtain of History” closes. Rev.10: 6. And sware by him that liveth for ever and ever, who created heaven, and the things that therein are, and the earth, and the things that therein are, and the sea, and the things which are therein, that there should be TIME no longer:
7. But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.
Now that the 1260days of Witnessing ends, near to the ultimate END of TIME, we can assume that the WITNESSES appear some 3.5 years into the 7 feast of trumpets period.
We shall look at the 144,000. They are the ELECT/Chosen(Bride)/5 Virgins/Expecting (Pregnant) woman – Expecting Jesus’ appearance/ etc,
Daniel 12: 12. Blessed [is] he that waiteth, and cometh to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days. …(notice the HINT 12:12, or 12×12=144?)
We have the Blessed waiting (Expecting?) for 1335 days? …7years = 2520days? So, if the WAITING is only 1335days, then there is at least 75days of overlap if the 144,000 start and the 2 Witnesses end in the 7years. So we have ~ 5 Months of knowing that the DELIVERANCE takes place! … As we have noted, there is still time AFTER the 2 Witnesses leave for heaven!
Rev.9: 5. And to them it was given that they should not kill them, but that they should be tormented five months: and their torment [was] as the torment of a scorpion, when he striketh a man.
Notice that the verse before mentions the ones that are still not convinced (Sealed) of these 2 Witnesses legitimacy they are plagued for 5 months to make them realize their disbelief.
4. And it was commanded them that they should not hurt the grass of the earth, neither any green thing, neither any tree; but only those men which have not the seal of God in their foreheads.
After the 144,000 we have a following of Jesus called the HOST, or a “Multitude that no man can number” These are like the SHADOW on Palm Sunday.
Rev.7: 9. After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;
These Sing the SONG of MOSES, – an OLD Song When they are delivered just after the time of the FIRST Resurrection. (Of cause, Moses was there to TEACH them the words) Rev.153. And they sing the song of Moses the servant of God, and the song of the Lamb, saying, Great and marvellous [are] thy works, Lord God Almighty; just and true [are] thy ways, thou King of saints.
The 144,000 … on the other hand are singing a NEW Song at THEIR first-fruits deliverance! Rev.14: 3. And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred [and] forty [and] four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth.
This NEW song was only sung by the 24 Elders and the 4 Beasts (When the 7 Seals were opened:- Rev.5: 9. And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;
|____42 months_____|____1260days____| New Jerusalem = Holy City trodden
|___1335days____/-75-|___1150d Trib___|- (2,300 x 1Evening+1Morning = 1150days)
Rev.11:2 … and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty [and] two months.
3. And I will give [power] unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred [and] threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.

Marianne,
I am not certain who the 4 Beasts are. Maybe “Beasts” are Rulers that were from Earth – long ago, and were resurrected at the time Jesus was on the Cross. Matt.27:52. And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose,
These could be Joseph (Israel’s son), as his bones were taken from Egypt to Palestine, and King David could be one of them too.
I believe that at the time of the Seals being broken, the 144,000 are still on Earth, so that FIRST reference in Rev.5:9.
Those seals (7) are depicting the PERFECT number. …Rev.5:1. And I saw in the right hand of him that sat on the throne a book written within and on the backside, sealed with seven seals. 3. And no man in heaven, nor in earth, neither under the earth, was able to OPEN the book, neither to LOOK thereon.
The 7 Seals are given, starting in the next chapter, but, like the Beasts of Revelation, and Animals of Daniel, and the Women in Revelation, they (Seals) are different than each other, and discernible in the CONTEXT they are given.
My answer is – in reference to the BOOK’S 7 seals, I honestly have not thought of listing them, as I think that it is not 7 distinctly different from one another, -Like the 7 Spirits of Yeshuah.

False teaching? So the character of God found in 1 Corinthians 13 = Punishment of eternal suffering? You cannot get further apart on the spectrum of character. If you were caught tormenting and torturing an unbeliever in your basement after 3 months, would you be arrested? If so, why? We as evil men have laws against cruel and unusual punishment yet you worship a beast who will allow the eternal suffering of most because, “They didn’t accept him.”

If in college, a group of people don’t accept you, do you proceed to set their houses on fire and bludgen them to death? I mean after all they didn’t accept you so they had it coming right? Don’t you want to be like your god and do the things he does? Why would you elect not to do the things he does?

What’s ok for God to perform is not ok for you? You are worshiping the beast character in the book and attempting to make it = with the lamb character. The very word Babylon means “confusion by mixture”

“Then shall two be in the field…” is the book, and you have chosen one already just like the book of Revelation says you would. The “woman” or church rides the beast right? Of course that’s not talking about you though right?

There is a beast and a lamb in the book. You cannot serve two masters. You jump up and down saying, “It says most will be lost,” which is clear evidence you are in love with the beast.

“Most will be lost” = Good news? To whom?

We’ve all been tricked by the serpent. Words on a page.

Moses’ staff = A writing utensil

The serpents the staff turned into = Words on a page.

“Do good to those who hate you” = Bomb Iran because they might attack Israel?

Is the last book of the bible the revelation of Jesus Christ or Satan? This final book reveals Jesus Christ but the church preaches as if the last book reveals Satan. Do the math. The church of the last days will call Jesus anti-christ just like it was prophesied in the Gospels.

The beast of Revelation is the false image of Jesus erected in the minds of the world by the church.

Revelation 1:1
The Revelation of [Jesus Christ], which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John

Daniel 3:1-6 reveals this false image that Nebuchadnezzar (Gentile believer) erects. “Bow down, or be cast into a fiery furnace…” Sound like any doctrine you know of? Eternal suffering alive in hell as spoken of by Daniel the prophet

“In the reading of the prophets this one thing is to be observed…..they speak of things to come as if they were now past…” – Introduction to Isaiah, 1560 Geneva Biblehttp://www.genevabible.org/Geneva.html

While God is love, that is not all there is. He is first and foremost a Holy God. You cannot blank that out. If someone wants to be in His presence he has to be holy too. Ok, I see that we will not agree on this but I would to know anyhow, how you think on this.
Is there an everlasting lake of fire? Who, if any will be in it and for what period of time? What will happen to the ones, who, despite having known of the consequences of unbelief went on on their own way and died? What about satan and his angels?

It is clearly said in the gospels that we should forgive so that our Father in Heaven can also forgive us. If He does not forgive us then we are still under the wrath. Your reasoning is mostly based on human reasoning and not on the word of God, which you use yourself when it suits you but decry as mere words on a page when you do not like, what it says. You cannot tell God to stick to what we as humans think is ethical or not. He sets the rules, not we. If you bend His word then you maybe even bend it to your own destruction. Remember, teachers will suffer a greater judgment. If you lead people to believe, it is really not as serious as the word says, then you are trouble big-time when they get lost because of this.

So, if I understand your logic, more than 50% saved, Jesus wins – less that 50% saved, Jesus loses. Would you please enlighten me as to who will make it into Heaven and who not?
I am not counting on my own righteousness. Quite to contrary, my righteousness is in Jesus Christ. His sacrifice on the cross would have the same value even if only one would be saved by it. But you seemingly want to get everyone into God’s kingdom regardless of how they treated Jesus Christ. You devalue His sacrifice when you say, it does not really matter, whether you cared about it or not, you will get it anyway! You still don’t want it? I am sorry but this offer can not be rejected.

Using math logic we easily deduce what the doctrine you believe is truly saying when you argue that most will be lost. You are 100% saying that what Adam did in the garden fall was by far more powerful that what Jesus did on the cross. Hands down, this is exactly what you believe is translated into saying.

1 person saved, 12 billion lost = Victory for Christ???

By what standard of measurement do you measure?

The abomination that makes the sacrifice of Christ worthless and desolate is found in exactly what you believe. “Most will be lost” = The sacrifice of Christ is desolate (empty) and accomplishes very little

Do the math, it always exposes truth against lie

Words on a page told you most will be lost and you accept and endorse it. Words on a page also say all men will be saved and you reject and deny it. 1 Cor. 15:22 and Romans 5:18 say the same thing.

If you run to gather thorns that contradict this good news, what does that tell you? “Then shall two be in the field…” Choose you this day whom you will serve, a beast or a lamb

Marianne said this on May 18, 2012 at 7:38 pm “even the wicked will have to bow to God. it does not mean their heart has changed
they still go to the lake of fire.”
—————————————————————–
So Jesus was lying when He said, “Why are you calling me good? There are none good but one, that is god.”

gyod I find it hard to listen to the liberalist in you speaking unless you have had family shot, raped or beaten by many. I believe for the souls sake one learns to step through the door of forgiving the violators and that is often without encountering these monsters again who often remain monsters and who often repeat their crimes of violent sin. But I believe it is the Lord who takes these victims through their valley of sorrow without liberals or liberal Christians who insist these victims embark on some kind of mission to embrace this text. This is why He embarks on Judgement and Wrath to rebuke the many nations who slaughter without a thought hundreds of millions of innocent and it is not right to attack victims demanding with threat they forgive even the monsters of the earth. He is greatly gracious to take us through this long road of forgiving in the heart that we may go on as normal as possible and not by approaching and engaging these monsters but, because He knows the pain of being viciously attacked and being innocent. I find this a very difficult subject when I hear people like you demanding even that the perpetrators of violent crime should not even be punished as a show to others that these crimes are wrong because the scriptures clearly dictate their judgement by God. I find that it is far easier for some Christians attacking victims with this scripture than understanding why it is said and why victims need to know this truth, but, it is not at anytime made to exhonerate the perpetrators of violence and wickedness at any time and it is right to speak out against evil and stand up to it that a witness is lain before others warning not to walk in these evil ways. This Liberalism today does not want any part of making all things equal which they are not.

Isaiah 5 >>
20Woe to those who call evil good, and good evil;
Who substitute darkness for light and light for darkness;
Who substitute bitter for sweet and sweet for bitter!
21Woe to those who are wise in their own eyes
And clever in their own sight!
Isaiah 13:11 “Thus I will punish the world for its evil, and the wicked for their iniquity; I will also put an end to the arrogance of the proud, and abase the haughtiness of the ruthless.”

Nations and people must rise up against wickedness to stop the evil and when they do not great evil is committed. I suspect if more, including America would have stood against the evil of Hitler more may have been save and I have always thought that the Lord had to move to counteract the Liberal movement to keep America from standing against Hitler in WWII.
Though there were many including Americas’ President who already wished to, it took an attack of Pearly Harbour to bring them into aiding those taking a stand against the ovens and aggressions of Hitler. This is all happening again in Israel where all are watching this little people in their rightful lands attacked over and over again by the Islamist Madd Beast and doing and saying nothing while little Israel sits in the frontline trenches of the next war already begun though none will defend her.Forgiveness and justice or judgement ? for Christs’ death and His forgiveness of all the sinners did not forestall the judgement due either to Israel or Rome.

Psalm 17:13 Rise up, O LORD, confront them, bring them down; rescue me from the wicked by your sword.
King James Bible (Cambridge Ed.)
Psalm 94:16
Who will rise up for me against the evildoers? or who will stand up for me against the workers of iniquity?

Marie Jean, you are taking the extremes and make them a common occurrence. Forgiving starts a much lower level. However, if you want to speak about these extremes cases, fine.
A victim of such a brutal assault has received major and deep wounds. Forgiving is an essential step on the way of restoring the soul of the victim. To forgive does not mean
1. Let’s pretend, nothing happened.
2. The offender is not guilty and will not be punished.
Forgiveness means:I do surrender my right for revenge to you Lord and will I not pursue it on my own.
Harboring resentment will not heal the victim but only wound it more.
In these cases intensive counseling, prayer for healing and deliverance is necessary to heal the soul.
If you still have resentment, you are hindering this process.
I was twelve years in a deliverance church and I know what forgiveness can start.
It is not easy but the gain is worth every effort. It is first and foremost a decision and not a feeling. You may likely be confronted again with the anger and hurt, but if you stay fast then it will go.
Corrie Ten-Boom was a great example for that. OK, in her case the ward did ask her to forgive him but still, it takes strength.http://www.familylifeeducation.org/gilliland/procgroup/CorrieTenBoom.htm
There is no guarantee that the offender will ever repent of his deed. But regardless of that you can go on with your life once the healing process if finished.

gyod, you have obviously not read all of Corrie Ten Booms’ books. Her forgiving heart arrived in Gods’ time many years later when she met the person who had done his great evil to all of them in the camp and not when she left Hitlers animal ovens. It arrived in God’s time which is my point. I would not dare point out to those who have suffered you must forgive for I know the Lord is going to mend their hearts as He did ours but, what I like to say to people like you is go and run and tell these killers they must seek the forgiveness of their victims and God in their hearts for that is where it begins for their salvation.

With victims they are already aware of that pain and are way ahead of you and the perpetrators. I do not like that type of arrogance that has the gall to attach such pointed fingers to the journeys these victims must already make which takes years of their lives to complete.They have enough on their plate to deal with and often it is done in the sweet quiet and privacy of deep fellowship with Him who knows the depths of all sorrow!

Your views are pitifully typical of the liberalist of today. I still do not like it. I have walked with the Lord these 39 years and have found it has never changed. It is better to love and encourage the suffering and send your like to the perpetrators for they need the rebukes for their wanton violence. Thank you for responding though I do not agree with anyone speaking as you do on this subject.

No, I admit that was from a quick research with Google from what I had in memory. But nevertheless she was preaching forgiveness way before that incident. I am not saying that one should slap that in the face of someone with such a dramatic experience. This should come from someone, who has built a relationship of trust to that person. But that does not make it invalid. True healing can only come when you are willing to forgive. You may soothe the pain but it is not good to leave the would untreated. It only prolongs the pain and why is that arrogant when I suggest a direct, though more painful way to the healing of a victim?
And as a conclusion, not every case where forgiveness is needed, is that dramatic. People harbor resentment for much smaller things than what you brought up. I would consider this the majority of cases.

What I forgot to mention above was the fact that Jesus believed in a Wedding with His Bride, which took place as a “Shadow” in the beginning of His 3.5years Ministry (Water to wine) and the Multitude on Palm Sunday at the LAST week of His Ministry.
Luke 12:36. And ye yourselves like unto men that wait for their lord, when he will return from the wedding; that when he cometh and knocketh, they may open unto him immediately.
37. Blessed [are] those servants, whom the lord when he cometh shall find watching: verily I say unto you, that he shall gird himself, and make them to sit down to meat, and will come forth and serve them.
These latter 2 verse show this scenario of the ones who miss out on the Wedding and the BLESSED (144,000?) who are Watching, and Expecting.

Hi Alienated,
Rev.14:3. And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and NO MAN could learn that song but the hundred [and] forty [and] four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth.
4. These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, [being] the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.

As I understand it, there is no mention of any others, are there?
FIRST … fruits is not …Harvest. The MAIN Harvest occurs AFTER the First – Ripeners are ready to be picked. I Don’t know if you are familiar to Horticultural or Agricultural events, but from my experience, having had to do with my own fruit Orchard and several years of Harvesting fruit for others, there is always the small percentage of EARLY ripening fruit, which also fetched the highest price at the markets. There is usually about a week of rest, till the BULK of the harvest is ripe – after the First fruits are picked.

If you refer to Jesus being the Firstfruits of those who SLEPT, being the FIRST to never die again, I would agree.
1Cor.15:20. But now is Christ risen from the DEAD, [and] become the firstfruits of them that SLEPT.
23. But EVERY MAN in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ’s AT his coming.
The above verse is just one of the many examples that debunk the pagan LIE that The SERPENT told to Eve “Thou shalt NOT surely DIE” …When MAN was created God breathed in him and man BECAME a living SOUL (As opposed to a lifeless carcase of meat.)
Without the LIFE, we are finished, but there are many who will try to tell you that they have seen heaven, just like the Serpent, are mouthpieces of the devil!
John 3:13. And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, [even] the Son of man which is in heaven.

Then there will be the faithful Saints and the 144,000. Which will be caught up either together or separately.
This is described for the Saints in Revelation 15:2. and for the 144,000 in Revelation 14:2.

These are all the “Firstfruits” of the LORD OUR GOD.

REST IN THE SPIRIT when you and all read this.
Be prepared.
Praise YESHUA HAMASHIACH our LORD and SAVIOR KING

I omitted to mention the fact that these Redeemed Firstfruits were a spectacle that would be World News, for the World Leader of the One-World Government will CURSE the 144,000 who live in Heaven DURING the Tribulation!
Rev.13:6. And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and THEM THAT DWELL IN HEAVEN.

1 But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.

2 And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of .

3 And through covetousness shall they with feigned words make merchandise of you: whose judgment now of a long time lingereth not, and their damnation slumbereth not.

4 For if God spared not the angels that sinned , but cast them down to hell , and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;

5 And spared not the old world, but saved Noah the eighth person, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood upon the world of the ungodly;

6 And turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrha into ashes condemned them with an overthrow, making them an ensample unto those that after should live ungodly ;

7 And delivered just Lot, vexed with the filthy conversation of the wicked:

8 (For that righteous man dwelling among them, in seeing and hearing, vexed his righteous soul from day to day with their unlawful deeds;)

9 The Lord knoweth how to deliver the godly out of temptations, and to reserve the unjust unto the day of judgment to be punished :

10 But chiefly them that walk after the flesh in the lust of uncleanness, and despise government. Presumptuous are they, selfwilled, they are not afraid to speak evil of dignities.

11 Whereas angels, which are greater in power and might, bring not railing accusation against them before the Lord.

12 But these, as natural brute beasts, made to be taken and destroyed, speak evil of the things that they understand not ; and shall utterly perish in their own corruption;

13 And shall receive the reward of unrighteousness, as they that count it pleasure to riot in the day time. Spots they are and blemishes, sporting themselves with their own deceivings while they feast with you;

14 Having eyes full of adultery, and that cannot cease from sin; beguiling unstable souls: an heart they have exercised with covetous practices; cursed children:

15 Which have forsaken the right way, and are gone astray , following the way of Balaam the son of Bosor, who loved the wages of unrighteousness;

16 But was rebuked for his iniquity: the dumb ass speaking with man’s voice forbad the madness of the prophet.

17 These are wells without water, clouds that are carried with a tempest; to whom the mist of darkness is reserved for ever.

18 For when they speak great swelling words of vanity, they allure through the lusts of the flesh, through much wantonness, those that were clean escaped from them who live in error.

19 While they promise them liberty, they themselves are the servants of corruption: for of whom a man is overcome , of the same is he brought in bondage .

20 For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome , the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.

21 For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.

22 But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again ; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.

he is talking about how the current church views jesus, as not able, which is wrong, and why it has to be renewed and re-educated by leaders that are called of God, and not just there for convenience and money.

This site has been so inundated with “tares” over the last little while, that when I first read what you have on your blog, I made what I believe now to be an incorrect assumption.

I am only dust and man, and by no means believe that I am anything other than what I am.
I am simply a man who does his best to be a servant to the LORD our God, and the Son who died for us.
I make mistakes.

But I believe when and if I do make them, that I must make amends and apologize.

I hope that you can find it within your “newly created heart” to forgive me.

“YES!” God the Father is the Master Mathematician, but it is HIS plan that will rise to Victory.

Remember, Isaiah 55:8,9.

For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD.
For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts.

Logical Math may not reveal the totality of HIS Majesty.
And I truly believe that as man, we simply don’t have the capacity to fully comprehend what He has planned.

We have always understood that the multitude was of every kindred tongue and nation and the twelve tribes and what they established and twelve apostles and what they established is a type of if you will of the first fruits thus an amount not precise but 144 thousand as expanded from these to groups for only God knows their real number. They represent the two witnesses or make them up of Israel and the Messianist Church.

In Hebrew, the transliterated name Yeshua is comprised and spelled by the following four (4) Hebrew letters, ישוע.

From right to left they are the Yod, Shin, Vav and Ayin. Though Yeshua would have been a rather common name during the time period, the meaning itself is quite significant.

In Hebrew, “Yod” represents the aspect of creating.
“Shin” represents destroying or consuming.
“Vav” represents an adding to, or a securing of.
“Ayin” represents a knowing and experiencing.

Therefore, if one was to take these meanings and comprise them together in order, one could easily come up with the following.
Yeshua, the One who creates – The One who destroys – The One who adds to Himself and secures, or Saves – The One who knows you and wishes for you to experience Him.

Praise and glory to Yeshua HaMashiach the Lamb of God the Father, who offers His grace and Salvation.

In Revelation 1:8., 1:11., 21:6., and 22:13. Yeshua states that He is the “Alpha and Omega”. As we know, these would be the first and last letters of the Greek alphabet. However, it is more than likely that in speaking these words to John, Yeshua would have been speaking in Hebrew. Therefore He probably said, “I am the Aleph and the Tav.” Which are the first and last letters of the Hebrew alphabet.

Like many ancient languages, Hebrew was first written in what are called pictographs, or pictograms. This is where a “symbol” is utilized to represent an idea, or a “character”, through its pictorial resemblance, would convey a concept.

The pictogram for Aleph in ancient Hebrew was the head of an Ox, or Bull and its symbolic meaning denoted “strength, leader, or first”.

What is interesting regarding this pictogram is, if we read Matthew 5:17. “Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfill.” and then read Leviticus 4:3. “If the priest that is anointed do sin according to the sin of the people; then let him bring for his sin, which he hath sinned , a young bullock without blemish unto the LORD for a sin offering.”

Here we see that the sin offering to God for the Kohen Gadol, (High Priest) that had sinned, was a bull without blemish.
With Aleph being at first a pictogram of the head of an Ox or Bull, Yeshua being our High Priest, literally fulfilled Old Testament law by becoming the ultimate unblemished sin sacrifice for those that would believe and follow Him.

The Tav or last letter of the Hebrew alphabet is also quite intriguing. Its symbolic meaning represents a Covenant, or Seal.
Yeshua brought the New Covenant, (Hebrews 9:16,17.) and the Holy Spirit is our seal of promise, (Ephesians 1:13.)
So what was the pictogram of the Tav in ancient Hebrew? I don’t believe that it was mere coincidence that the symbol of the Tav was a “Cross”.

No, I don’t believe so. But I do believe that they were a shadow to a better and new more living Covenant that is now written in our hearts, (through the Spirit) rather than being merely script on stone, consisting of rules and regulations that were to be followed.

Each and every blood sacrifice that was made during the whole of the Mosaic, or Sinaitic Covenant was temporary, and the veil between man and the Holy of Holies remained intact. Whereas the singularity of Yeshua’s sacrifice was permanent and the veil was torn.
At Sinai, the climax of the revelation of God to Moses, was the commandment to construct the Mishkan, (or Tabernacle).
This commandment correlates directly to the redemption secured by the blood of the lamb in Egypt, and the first Pesach, (or Passover) this then led directly to the revelation of the laws of the altar. Almost 50% of the Book of Exodus is focused on the Mishkan, and the Book concludes with the Shekhinah Glory of God, being revealed at Sinai and filling the Holy of Holies. (Exodus 40:34,35.)

The Book of Leviticus then links the previous paragraph of the Book of Exodus, with the religious practices that were to be conducted within the Mishkan itself, and therefore, it focuses upon the various forms of offerings and sacrifices, (ie; zevzchim) that were integral to being able to worship God. As this was the climax of God’s revelation at Sinai, the Mishkan became the place of revelation, and focal point of corporate worship. (Exodus 25:22.-30:36.)

Prophetically speaking, the Mishkan was a foreshadowing, and represented the redemptive plan of God, that culminated in the revelation of Yeshua Ha-Mashiach as being appointed as the Lamb of God.(ie; seh ha-Elohim). Therefore, the Book of Leviticus is central to the Torah, and provides the basis from which we can understand the multifaceted meaning in respects to the sacrifice of Yeshua for our reconciliation with God.
“All of the great doctrines of the New Testament, regarding Atonement, propitiation of sin, and the meaning of the cross of the Messiah, are all grounded in the sacrificial system that is revealed in the Mishkan.”

The word or act of “sacrifice” in English, is more closely associated with an act of “self deprivation”, or to give up something of value, for something of an actual, (or perceived) greater value.
However in the Torah, the concept of sacrifice has more to do with making an offering to God, as a means to be able to draw closer to Him. These sacrifices were intended to express gratitude and joy, while at the same time, temporarily remove the obstacles that were caused by mans defilement and sin.
In actuality, the most common Hebrew word that is utilized to describe sacrifice within the Torah, is the word “korban”, which comes from the root “karov”, meaning to “come close”, or to “draw near”. In the Mishkan, “korbanot” consisted of the various ritualized acts that were used for the worshipper to draw near to God.

Nevertheless, my position is that the whole point of the Towrah was, “that to obey, is better than having to sacrifice.”

“And Samuel said, Hath the LORD as great delight in burnt offerings and sacrifices, as in obeying the voice of the LORD? Behold, to obey is better than sacrifice, and to hearken than the fat of rams.” (1 Samuel 15:22.)
And therefore, since the Laws were impossible for man to execute with perfection, it was then necessary for God to provide that perfection in our stead in the form of the Messiah. The Torah and the commandments is simply a foreshadowing of the better New Covenant that Yeshua in His grace performed on our behalf. To continue to follow the Torah, (or the letter of the Law) is in essence to deny Yeshua’s sacrifice. He by the shedding of His blood, is the only way to “draw near” to God.

The sacrifice of Yeshua as the “Kohen Gadol”, (High Priest) of the “new and better” Covenant, was a gift to us from God for those that place their trust in His Son. The cross itself, literally represents the “kapporet” (mercy seat) of the New Covenant, for it was on that cross that He shed His blood for our everlasting reconciliation to God. It is only because of the korban of Yeshua, that we can all draw near to God. He is the way, the truth and the life.

When His sacrifice was complete and Yeshua did die, the veil of the Temple, the “parochet” that separated the Holy of Holies from the Holy place, was rent asunder, thereby now granting access to the “Throne of Grace”. It is only because of the High Priestly work of Yeshua that this is now possible. Neither the Levitical, or any other mediators for that matter are necessary, and all that now trust fully in Yeshua as their Lord and Savior are called “spiritual kohanim”.
When Yeshua spoke the words, “It is finished.” (John 19:30) there were far reaching implications to that statement that many haven’t taken fully into consideration. Followers of Yeshua have an altar of grace in which to kneel before, where those who attempt to follow that of the older system, are unable to partake in.

Yeshua then left us who follow HIM in SPIRIT a NEW TOWRAH for a NEW COVENANT.

30 And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment.
31 And the second is like, namely this , Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these. (Mark 12:30,31.)

Hi David,
You mentioned the sea of glass in Heaven, metioned in Rev.4:6. And before the throne [there was] a sea of glass like unto crystal: and in the midst of the throne, and round about the throne, [were] four beasts full of eyes before and behind.
I was quoting the FIERY Sea. Rev.15:2. And I saw as it were a sea of glass mingled with FIRE: and them that had gotten the victory over the beast, and over his image, and over his mark, [and] over the number of his name, stand on the sea of glass, having the harps of God.

This, I believe, is when the HARVEST (Resurrected Saints since Adam + those who went through this Tribulation of 2,300 Evenings and Mornings), just before the 7 last plagues are poured out. (Read to end of Chapter)

Why would the stars fall to earth? perhaps the earth reeling to and fro makes it apear the stars are falling. But in effect they apear to move in the heavens, because the earth is moving At the time of the fall of Adam some say the earth also fell. Out of the place next to God where it was created, to where it is today. This earth today with its sin and wickedness is a telestial world, next it will be a paradisical world for a thousand years. At the end of the millenium it will be a fit place to live in the mansions of G_D or a celestial world. See 1 Cor chp 15 v 40,41. There are two Armagedons, one at the second coming, the second at the end of the thousand years of paradise.
Brains are for thinking, feet are for dancing, eyes are for seeing the Word of G_D. The mouth is to praise and ask, and feed on the bread of life and drink the living water.

I have always understood David that the stars were also represented by the fallen angels as once ruling over them and the battle in the heavans created our dying Universe which is why the Lord is bringing a new heavan and new earth etc. to replace them so when it is undone with the judgement of the angels they shall be done away with what was once their domain of rule. Christ is now the Morning Star etc. I have often thought that the numbers of the saved to be filled, Jews and Gentiles may fill the numbers of fallen angels although there is a multitude without number these two witnesses or 144000 fill the number of the fallen angels removed from heavan and thus the falling stars as it were.

The Ten (really fourteen) commandments will always be valid, for don’t we live by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God. But the first tablet given to Moses (those he smashed) contained a higher law, given to the faithfull apostles att his first coming, and comprise the fundamentals of the Apostolic Church

David, you cannot cut a sentence in half.
John 3:13 , even the Son of man which is in heaven.
If we had lived in heaven before out time here wouldn’t we have seen the father? But that’s ruled out by Joh 1v18.

Sea of glass. the is the world in its celestial glory. The earth must die and be reurected. Its been baptised at Noah’s flood, It will receive the Holy Ghost at the second coming, so resurection is the next and final step.

Mark this day brothers and sisters in Christ Jesus. The enemy does not want what is happening to occur, but God is in control, and he will be victorious, Amen. The doors of heaven will soon swing open. Those who remain, be ready to be a testimony, and spread the gospel to all the world. The chess game is starting! Read psalm 112 in the Spirit, I do not fully understand, but I obey the voice of the Lord. Spend the evening in prayers for the saints that they will have the strength to accomplish the Lord’s will.

MY GLORIOUS GOD,
This is my testimony to YOU my Magnificent SAVIOR and KING.
I have no idea as to what YOUR plan consists of, or why?

I have no idea as to YOUR timing, or as to when, as YOUR humble servant I will be required of YOU.
Perhaps days or a week, it does not matter.
For I am YOURS my GOD.
Consume me from the inside out for that of your GLORY.
May YOUR WILL O’ GOD, be my will.

Praise to YOU my Father.
Praise to YOU my Worthy Savior.

Blessing to all in the Name of the LORD.
May my weakness be YOUR STRENGTH.

And for those that read this, don’t think that I don’t know that you think that I may have gone off the deep end.
Don’t think that I haven’t taken that possibility under consideration myself. However I am willing to be obedient and follow what is in my heart.
May God grant to all of you that Strength in your weakness.

Olaf. Re cutting sentance in half, fair go I’m a one fingered typist. If I typed out every scripture in full I’d have writers cramp. I expect people to read the scripture in full. Your response. No man has seen G-D.
Adam in the Garden walked and talked with G-D, untill cut off from his presence through sin.
Moses on the mount when he received the tablets, saw the finger of G-D and also His back.
No physical man has seen G-D unless he is temporaly changed,to enable him to with stand His(G-D’s) Glory, read how Moses was changed when he came down from the Mount.
As for living with G-D before we came to this earth. See Rev. Chp 5 v 13. it says every creature. As for the beasts, that’s what it means, animals, all creatures, as we understand creatures. From amoeba’s to dinasours, all things have their place in Heaven, for they are the handywork of His hands.
The beasts before His throne full of eyes. Eyes are symbols of power, as are heads symbols of kingdoms. And I don’t mean this, but spiders have multiple eyes.

Sorry Olaf, the above comment was addresed to Gyod. All these pen names are confusing.
My interpretation of the seven seals. Each seal represents a millenium of earths history
The chronological narrative of the vision is interupted periodically with “Teaching interludes”
A couple of examples.
Rev. 12 v 9. This is a brief instruction of the war in heaven, which took place before the Earth was created. Yet chp 12 is placed in the section of the seventh seal.
Rev 14 v 6-7 This speaks of another angel flying through the heavens with the Everlasting Gospel to preach to every nation kindred and tongue. This refers to the restoration of the Gospel; an incedent that belongs in the latter part of the sixth seal. That is now’
Rev 10 v 1 to 11. A litle book was given to John that is sweet to eat but is bitter in his belly. This is his call to continue in his ministry to the nations of the earth to gather in the elect. Remember he was not to taste of death until the second coming of the Saviour. This is placed in the sixth seal, or in the middle of the battle of Armageddon, but refers to what happened in the fifth seal
Rev. 12 v 7 to 11. This reference comes in the middle of the segment dealing with the established of G-D’s kingdom in the Meridian of time, and explains that the opposition of Satan to God’s Kingdom began before the creation of the world.
While the flow of John’s revelation is organised around a chronological outline, not every seal is given a detailed emphasis. Up untill the sixth seal only a couple of verses deal with each other seal. Greater emphasis is placed on the sixth and seventh seals, with consideral emphasis placed upon the opening of the seventh seal and ends with the second coming of the Lord Jesus Christ.
INTERPRETATION OF THE SEVEN SEALS

First seal. Enoch and Zion

Second seal Wickedness and the Flood

Third seal Famine and Israel

Fourth seal Age of the Empires

Fifth seal Age of Martyrdom

Sixth seal Restoration of the Church
Natural calamities
Half an hour of silence
Trumpets anounce Judgement.

Seventh seal Babylon is destroyed
Christ comes in Glory
Satan is bound
Rightous join Christ
Millennium of peace
Satan loosed for a season
The last great battle
Final judgement
Earth reborn to a celestial glory.

Note my previous statement. Celestial Glory, a sea of fiery glass, a white stone and a new name.

There are hidden agendas everywhere….personally the “one world government” will be able to fall right in to place I believe whenever they are ready because of all that is happening most people have no clue over. One day….it is like it is today and the next…WHAM! one world government…just like that. been planning it for years and years…

The interesting thing about the word “revealed” in verse 30 above is this.

It is derived from the Greek word “ἀποκαλύπτω”, transliterated as “apokalyptō”, (Strong’s 601) it is a “verb”and is defined as, “1) to uncover, lay open what has been veiled or covered up. a) disclose, make bare. 2) to make known, make manifest, disclose what before was unknown”

The root words for “apokalyptō” are first, the Greek “ἀπό” transliterated as “apo”, (Strong’s 575) It has a rather long definition, however I will post it all here.
1) of separation a) of local separation, after verbs of motion from a place i.e. of departing, of fleeing, … b) of separation of a part from the whole.
1) where of a whole some part is taken. c) of any kind of separation of one thing from another by which the union or fellowship of the two is destroyed.
d) of a state of separation, that is of distance. 1) physical, of distance of place. 2) temporal, of distance of time. 2) of origin. a) of the place whence anything is, comes, befalls, is taken. b) of origin of a cause.

The other root word is the Greek “καλύπτω” transliterated as “kalyptō”, (Strong’s 2572). It is also a “verb” and is defined as “1) to hide, veil. a) to hinder the knowledge of a thing.

The root words for “kalyptō” are the Greek words “κλέπτω”, transliterated as “kleptō”, (Strong’s 2813). It is also a verb, and is defined as, 1) to steal.
a) to commit a theft. b)take away by theft i.e take away by stealth. (perhaps like a thief in the night?)

And then there is the Greek word “κλέπτω” transliterated as “kryptō”, (Strong’s 2928). It is also a “verb” and is defined as 1) to hide, conceal, to be hid.
2)escape notice 3) metaph. to conceal (that it may not become known)

Put all of that together and it is rather interesting don’t you think?

I do not think that anyone is paying attention Alienated. they are all busy quarreling amongst themselves. The same argument, different day. Like they are acting out a repeat of the same “Ilove lucy” episode. It is so comfortable and secure knowing that they are right, and everyone else is wrong. Kind of frustrating, eh! Oops now I am starting to sound canadian.

May 16 I think there must be many of us reading what you have written alienated. I am blessed to consider and read, it’s just that I have to be gone for days or weeks and then I am able to return and read and write some here but not usually for long.

My thougths on this is that absolutely the ones that could care less about any religion, much less Jesus Christ will in all probability going about their merry way….it seems that there is only a remnant that I know are actually “looking”, “watching”, and expecting the things that are to take place. I do not know but a handful of people out of ALL that I know that profess to be “Christians” even remotely thinking the end is near. They ARE going about their merry way….saying….I believe in Jesus, that’s all i need to know…as they party away!!

Oh hes, he is in control!! Thank you Lord Jesus. He is “moving” in me now….like a million butterfiles in my stomach. I feel so blessed to feel him in such a might way. I do not know the full reason I am sure for what he is doing with me. I feel like he knew I would shout it to the world he is coming soon – I have a loud mouth you see:-)…LOLOLOL!! I think that is one of the reasons he is using me in the manner he is as he knows I don’t mind saying what is happening and what he is doing with me and telling me…as most people actually think I am losing it when I start telling them the Holy Spirit literally moves in me:-) Preachers just LOOK at me like ….girl, i have no clue what you are talking about. OUR LORD IS IN CONTROL! Amen!! Thank you Jesus!

Oh…if only I had trusted him so much all these years. I have enough faith to move mountains now…where as most of my life it was only as tiny as a mustard seed. I know that He says we only need the faith of a mustard seed but I barely hung on with that much!! On Christ the sold rock I stand!

Can you actually believe that we are going to be THAT GENERATION that will see his return!! I am sure so many generations have thought and prayed they would be but we are actually going to see him VERY SOON!!! I pray I am one of those that does not “taste” death and will be one that is “still alive and caught up” to meet him in the air! I have to shake my head and pinch myself when I think about it! LOL!

Alienated, Deb,
It was so nice to wake up to that conversation. Such a blessing.
Alienated, Each of us know the course we will take. some will escape, others will go through the time, while some will be taken in the middle.

Deb, I am a Laodicean, Alienated is Philadelphian overcomers. One of the letters in revelation should “speak” to you more than the others. Do not look at the negatives, so much as the positives. Look at what Each angel holds, in the intro in particular.

I do not think you are a Laodicean. seems to me you are seeking him faithfully, diligently. God knows the desires of our heart and I think you are living in his will. I pray I will be able to be found worthy. I feel like I will be but only He knows at this time. I seek him minute by minute and repent as often as he convicts me of anything! The Holy Spirit seems to be moving and moving in me more lately. I don’t know what all he is trying to tell me but I believe we will see his face soon.

According to the prophecy of St. Malachy, who predicted the last 111 popes, the next pope will be the last.
Here is what I found on google:

James Malm, of Shining Light, posted the following:
Roman Catholic tradition indicates that the next Pope will be the last one. While we should not stand on any non scriptural tradition, Benedict XVI at 80 is visibly slowing down. Benedict may be empowered and strengthened to last until the return of Christ, or he may go the way of all flesh. If he does pass on; who will replace him?

So I’m not sure what tradition you are referring to. Plus, two more popes could drag things out another 50 years if they live long enough.
I think I’ll stick with Malachy.

Yes Malachi said Peter the Roman would be last. But people say that the Anti Christ is the Pope, or a Pope. If the Anti Christ is a Pope, then Malachi would not have nominated a name for him. I am not a R.C. but reading manifestoes published by the R.C. Church, they appear to put the Pope above the Saviour, that he can dictate doctrine, re interpret the Bible, etc. It makes interesting reading.
I would have thought people would have picked up on this. When Saten appears as an angel of light and passes himself off as the Saviour, to get the Catholic vote as it were, he would nominate a “Pope”. So, would this “Pope” be the anti christ?

Malachy did not name the last pope. He used the generic title “Peter the Roman” which is applied to every pope. In fact, he never called a pope by name, only attributes.
This last pope will be the false prophet. The man of sin. He has also been referred to as the antichrist, however, there is no mention of an antichrist in Revelation, only the beast, False Prophet and Satan. The beast is a kingdom, as in Daniel, which is what the apostate whore (church) rides in Revelation. The pope is the “image” of the Vatican beast and his title already proclaims him to be Jesus on earth and that title (in latin, with Roman numerals) adds up to 666. That will never be possible if the antichrist was Islamic, but the Vatican already has it covered.
I’m not sure how people get a world-dictator antichrist man person from the beasts of Revelation, which are clearly kingdoms. The author of the “Left-Behind” books created the common scenario many years ago, and after the movies came out it spread like wildfire, but while it makes for an interesting story line, it is not really supported by scripture unless you leave over half the Book of Revelation out and then mangle and extrapolate the meanings of the remaining verses.
You’re right about people not picking up on this more. It seems so obvious but many Christians want to blame the tribulation on Islam. In fact, more and more churches will come under the Vatican again especially when the pope begins to perform miracles. The whole (Christian) world will follow the beast. In fact, the majority of Christians today are already catholic, so the verse already fits. Most of the prophecy is already in place, yet many wait for a New World Order with a One World Dictator and a One world Currency etc., something that simply will never happen, at least anytime soon.
Go figure…

if you read the description of the first 3 beasts in Daniel, and recognize which empires they are, the go to Rev where the 4 th beast is described, you will see the “body parts” described parts of what are Islamic countries / regions today

I think you are missing the point of Daniel’s prophecy. You have to go back to the statue made of 4 metals, each one representing one of the beast empires he later described.
Daniel is prophesying what world empires will control God’s church, from the present (to Daniel – Babylon) to the end times. Persia conquered Babylon, Greece conquered Persia, then Rome conquered Greece.
We know the fourth beast is Rome because they were among the first to turn iron into steel, they had two legs (eastern and western empires) and Rome broke up into ten toes (kings) when it became the Holy Roman Empire, and three kings were destroyed by Vatican forces leaving only seven. Remember, there arose a little horn different from the rest (a religious kingdom) and it plucked up 3 by the roots.
Dan 7:24
And the ten horns out of this kingdom [are] ten kings [that] shall arise: and another shall rise after them; and he shall be diverse from the first, and he shall subdue three kings.
Dan 7:25
And he shall speak [great] words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.

Check your history books:
Ten kings arise (Europe)
Another rises – the Vatican
Three kings are subdued by the little horn (the Vatican.) – Ostrogoths, Vandals & Heruli
The little horn speaks blasphemies – The Vatican says the pope is Christ himself, in the flesh
It shall wear out the saints – Check out the inquisitions
It shall think to change laws and times – The Vatican deleted the 2nd commandment and moved the 4th from Saturday to Sunday.
Given for 3-1/2 prophetic years, 1260 prophetic days or 1260 actual years – the Holy Roman Empire lasted exactly 1260 years

You can ignore these facts in the same way Jews ignore the prophesies of Jesus’ first coming and call them coincidences, but if you compute the odds of the events in Daniel being coincidences you come up with over 40,000,000,000,000 to one! To me, this is overwhelming proof of the bible as the word of God. To ignore it seems foolish, given the math, especially since there is no other kingdom that actually fits the prophecy, and to think that everything in Daniel and Revelation still has to happen in the next few years is expecting a miracle.

Babylon is hated by God because its pagan mystery religion (Baal worship) filtered thru successive empires eventually into Rome and then got blended with true Christianity by Constantine, thus polluting His future bride. This is why the first 3 beasts’ body parts are mentioned in the 1st beast of Revelation. It is John’s way of illustrating this filtering effect from Babylon to the Holy Roman Empire, which is his first beast. He is providing continuity of the story and the statue. The toes of the statue (once Europe) are now the EU, and the final kingdom will be a restored Holy Roman Empire, the combination of the EU and the Vatican. This is the Mystery Babylon that will be struck by the rock (Christ) destroying the statue before Christ sets up His earthly government.
The point that Babylon et. al. are now Islamic is lost on God. I’m sure He couldn’t care less. Just one more false religion that Jesus will have to straighten out after He returns. But what He does care about is His own church. Just as Jesus rebukes the 6 churches in rev3, the rest of the Book of Revelation is rebuking the modern day churches in the same way. We all want to be members of the Philadelphia church but most people don’t understand what it is to be apostate. They don’t know what is pagan and what is biblical. Many churches don’t even preach the 10 commandments, thinking they are unnecessary. Wow, talk about changing (deleting) laws and times.
Well, God said it would happen, and it has. And very few people even realize it. This is why so many people will follow the beast and take his mark, and why the true church is called a remnant.
Many will be called, but few will be chosen.Bummer.

Marianne.
Is there a way of isolating one of these entries and printing them off. The Glory and Grace by Alienated is worth considerable study. My attempts to print it in isolation has been unsucessfull.

My comment on the “few will be saved”
Saved where? surely the few will be saved in Heaven (celestial glory) The others will go to a lesser glory. See 1 Cor chp 15 v 40,41,42.
I also draw your attention to 1 Cor chp 3 v 10 through to v 15.

David my studies are more like the above regarding the word “revealed”.
I am no where near as eloquent as John in my writing.

This would be another of mine to show you the difference that I posted on “The Seven Spirits of God” regarding as to how, Yeshua is the end, and Author.
“the Spirit of Wrath“, is NOT to be subjected upon the righteous, then understanding what constitutes the Wrath itself, and Who it is that is the designated and Chosen Emissary that performs this task of dolling it out , should lead us to the correct answer.

Lets look at 1 Corinthians 15:21-23.

21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.
22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive .
23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ’s at his coming.

I am sure that everyone will agree, (if in keeping in mind that Paul is speaking to other believers as being the correct context), that what Paul has just said here, is that, “Because of Adam’s sin, all of man would suffer the consequence of death. Yet, because of Yeshua’s sacrifice for the blood atonement of our sins, the opportunity to pass from death into life is available. That even though all of us will die, those of us that are in Yeshua will all be made to live. But that there is a sequence to how this will play out, and that Yeshua was the “firstfruits”, and that those that are His will be next within that sequence at Yeshua’s coming.” Do we all agree with this?

Well since it is scripture, I agree as well.
(However before we continue, I would like make sure that we are all on the same page regarding the subject matter of discussion here. The way that I see how this chapter is written, is that the word “resurrection” is being utilized interchangeably with that of “passing from death into life”, (or going to heaven when we die as believers. 2 Corinthians 5:8.), and that of the “being caught up in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump” resurrection.
In my opinion, verse 21 above is referring to “the passing from death into life”, and that verse 23 is now referring to “the gathering of the full Assembly”.)

With that being said, then what does the next verse (24) say?

24 “Then” cometh the “end”, when “he” shall have “delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father”; when “he” shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.

On the surface I suspect that this verse appears relatively self explanatory, and you know exactly what it is saying. Right?

Well firstly, directly after saying, “afterward they that are Christ’s at his coming”, Paul utilizes the word “Then” in providing as to what the sequence of events shall be. (The English “then”, the Greek “εἶτα” or “eita”, (Strong’s 1534) defined as, “1) then. 2) next, after that.)

So okay, BEFORE “this end comes”, those that are Yeshua’s will be caught up as He was, (He being the firstfruits, and the Assembly being the next in line in respects to the sequence). But what is this “end”? And, what does the word “end” above really mean?

Well, the English word “end” is derived from the Greek “τέλος” transliterated as, “telos”, (Strong’s 5056) and its definitions might just surprise you?
Though the primary definition would indeed be “the end”, I ask for you to thoughtfully consider some of the other definitions, “ termination, the limit at which a thing ceases to be (always of the end of some act or state, “but not of the end of a period of time”). “the last in any succession or series.” “that by which a thing is finished, its close, issue.” “the end to which all things relate, the aim, purpose.”

So clearly by the definitions of this word, the “end” does not necessarily mean “the end”. Or;

1) That Yeshua’s “coming” that is spoken about in verse 23 is at “the end”, directly before He judges the world and establishes His Millennial Kingdom.
2) Instead, (based upon the definitions), this “end” could possibly be referring to the end of this current “Holy Spirit filled believers, Age of Grace”.
3) Which then, could possibly correlate to 2 Thess. 2:6,7., which is the spiritual shift in dynamics which then allows for the man of sin to be revealed.
4) Or, that in delivering up the kingdom to God the Father, that this “end” will not take some time to play out, (say maybe 7 years, based upon Daniel 9:27.).

This “end” in actuality, (by the way that it is written), appears to simply suggest “the next” sequence of God’s overall plan taking effect, and also appears to encompass the “7 year Tribulation and Wrath period, the full 1000 year Reign, up to and including the Great White Throne Judgement.” See verses 25,26.
Then when everything that is unrighteous has been been conquered by Yeshua, he will then Himself will be subjected to God the Father, so that God may be all in all, (verse 28).

So clearly Yeshua our Lord is the designated and Chosen Emissary commissioned by God to perform this particular task. Yeshua is the “he” in verse 24 above, as well, He is the One that is described in Isaiah 11:4, and numerous other passages of scripture. Anything that Yeshua does regarding anything to do with punishment, (the Day of the Lord), is part and parcel regarding this commission, and Yeshua is the one that opens the seals!
The seals are a form of punishment, ergo also a portion of Gods Wrath, in which Yeshua Himself is in charge of being the One to administer it.
I believe that the Day of the Lord is the period of Tribulation, and that the Tribulation is the period where God has commissioned Yeshua to act on His behalf by utilizing His, (God’s) Wrath, and that God’s Wrath is synonymous with the Day of the Lord. In my opinion they are all describing the same thing.

Here is what I found to be, some interesting information regarding the Greek word “τέλος” translated as “telos” and into English as “end”.

The Word Origin for “telos” is “tello”, (to set out for a definite point or goal). “Telos” is the Word origin for “τέλειος”, transliterated as “teleios”, (Strong’s 5046) where its definitions are; “brought to its end, finished., wanting nothing necessary to completeness., perfect., that which is perfect., consummate human integrity and virtue of men., full grown, adult, of full age, mature.”

“Teleios” is then the Word Origin for “τελειόω”, transliterated as “teleioō”, (Strong’s 5048 ) where its definitions are; “to make perfect, complete., to carry through completely, to accomplish, finish, bring to an end., to complete (perfect)., add what is yet wanting in order to render a thing full., to be found perfect.,to bring to the end (goal) proposed., to accomplish., bring to a close or fulfilment by event, of the prophecies of the scriptures.”

“Teleioō”, is then the Word Origin for “τελειωτής”, transliterated as “teleiōtēs”, (Strong’s 5051) where its definitions are; ”a perfector., one who has in his own person, raised faith to its perfection and so, has set before us the highest example of faith.”
(This particular Greek word is only utilized once within the New Testament, and has been translated into English as “finisher” within the King James, in Hebrews 12:2., “Looking unto Jesus the author and “finisher” of [our] faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.”)

If the above isn’t apparently obvious, what I found to be intriguing, was that the word “end” above that I provided the word study and definitions for, correlates and leads us directly to Yeshua as the “Perfector”. The “end” in 1 Corinthians 15:24., is Yeshua Himself.

In Israel, “Jerusalem Day”, (Yom Yerushalayim), commemorates the re-unification of the old city of Jerusalem on June 7th. 1967 during the 6 day war.
In 1968 the Chief Rabbinate of Israel declared Iyyar 28th. to be a minor holiday to thank God for answering the 2000 year old prayer of “the next year in Jerusalem”.

On March 23rd. 1998, the Knesset passed the “Jerusalem Day Law”, making it a National holiday.

Note that this year the Moon will eclipse nearly 95% of the Sun on Sunday, (In the United States, and Canada, the Solar eclipse will begin around 7:30 pm, CDT and will last for about 2 hours.)

Further the very next day, Monday May 21st. marks “Rosh Chodesh Sivan”, the New Moon of Sivan, which means that within 2 consecutive days, we will have the Sun eclipsed by the Moon, followed by a disappearance of the Moon!

“Then the Moon will be confounded and the Sun ashamed, for the LORD of Hosts reigns on mount Zion and in Jerusalem, and His glory will be before His elders.” Isaiah 24:23.

Out of Zion, the perfection of the beauty of God shines forth. Psalm 50:2.

I wouldn’t get too excited about this Sunday’s eclipse. It is only part of a recurring cycle of repeating events. Here, from wikipedia:
Saros 128
It is a part of Saros cycle 128, repeating every 18 years, 11 days, containing 73 events. The series started with partial solar eclipse on August 29, 984 AD. It contains total eclipses from May 16, 1417 through June 18, 1471 and hybrid eclipses from June 28, 1489 through July 31, 1543. Then it progresses into annular eclipses from August 11, 1561 through July 25, 2120. The series ends at member 73 as a partial eclipse on November 1, 2282. The longest duration of totality was 1 minutes, 45 seconds on June 7, 1453.[1]
Then there is the Metonic series:
Metonic series
The metonic series repeats eclipses every 19 years (6939.69 days), lasting about 5 cycles. Eclipses occur in nearly the same calendar date. In addition the octon subseries repeats 1/5 of that or every 3.8 years (1387.94 days).
This series has 21 eclipse events between May 21, 1993 and May 20, 2069.

So you see, the universe is quite regular in nature. You can’t take any individual eclipse and ascribe something special to it.There are eclipses every year, and so yes, there will be eclipses before and after Christ’s return. But to try to assign a higher meaning to any individual event is simply wishful thinking.
But I wouldn’t be surprised that many people will continue to do so, and don’t you know it, eventually, one of them will be right!
Everyone else will simply have to be disappointed over and over again until then.
Oh well, good luck on Sunday.
I’ll be out there with my camera. Maybe later I’ll take my pictures and put them on YouTube and say I saw Nibiru!
Maybe android will believe me…
🙂

Due to Scripture having duplicity of meaning interwoven within its content, this could be very applicable.

28 And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy , your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions:

29 And also upon the servants and upon the handmaids in those days will I pour out my spirit.

30 And I will shew wonders in the heavens and in the earth, blood, and fire, and pillars of smoke.

31 The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and the terrible day of the LORD come .

32 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the LORD shall be delivered : for in mount Zion and in Jerusalem shall be deliverance, as the LORD hath said , and in the remnant whom the LORD shall call . Joel 2:28-32. KJV.

The terrible day of the Lord is the last year of the tribulation. It follows the horsemen which includes WW3 – a nuclear war (pillars of fire). The fire and smoke will darken the sun moon and stars, perhaps helped by volcanic eruptions (mountains of fire). Unless you can squeeze all of this in by Sunday, I’m afraid this rather common eclipse will signify nothing.
We will know shortly…

Oh thank you so much for giving us these reminders alienated Where the carcass is there the eagles will be gathered. When Jerusalem was re-united it was another scripture fulfilled drawing us all closer to His return.

I do believe the one that will be antichrist is as well in power as a major leader in the world now…and it does say in Revelation 13:5 and power was given unto him to “continue” forty and two months, which absolutely says that when he is “made known” he has already been ruling something/somewhere.

Great info..I too believe the antichrist is who you alluded to as well. I have thought that for some time but of course time will tell all:-) .I sure have not put the hours in that you have studying all this but absolutely the powers behind it have been at work for a long long time. Amazing what you can find when you google…to lead you to the “truth”…and you are also right about them not bothering to care if it is hidden anymore.

Oh my gosh. I am so thankful. Yes, it is the signs of the time. I feel very positive it won’t be so much freedom of speech/searching here for much longer as time draws near. just passed out about 300-400 flyers on mailboxes…my dream and that he is coming soon..prepare. One day I am sure I would be arrested for that ….that probably could be a matter of time as well. It is not illegal to put something on the outside of a mailbox as long as you don’t open it! I feel such a desparate urgency to warn everyone time is short.

That is a wonderful idea. Here we are talking here, and should be sharing this with our neighbors. those who will be near us when all goes down. We should be developing more closeness with them, because good terms and interactions may be necessary when emergencies come. We not only want to survive physically, but to have saved people near us when all goes wrong. I think I will make some flyers too. thanks.

We are watching for Javier Solona to be given power to continue for 42 months and watching for the AOD…he is the former High Representative of the European Union and we are in the midst of a signed 7 yr agreement.

I texted a friend last yr telling her I believe Solona is the antichrist n that he would be revealed soon…i clicked send and layed the phone down..all of a sudden the phone beeped and vibrated,,I thought I was receiving a text so I looked at the phone screen and it said… “that was your 66th msg sent”.
That was unheard of…my phone never beeped n vibrated after sending a text and it never informed me how many texts I sent.

That was a sign.

Also, I have had a couple visions of the bride of Christ.

And last yr I had a dream about the 144,000. Spiritual Israel. We have been grafted in at the root.

Couple of other strange signs involving numbers I have been shown. I told you about one of them Marianne in your Jezebel in the workplace thread.

I thought since I have to work like most folks many hours a day….and at churches believe me they don’t want to hear it ( and i have tried believe me) I printed a flyer…telling people get ready, prepare your heart with Jesus….listed tons of scripture telling them we are NOT preraptured…we are in these final years and prepare, first with your life being right with Jesus, then food and water…I don’t put in the mailbox but on the outside. My thoughts are the ones that Jesus knows will be his he will have them know that it is real…the ones that throw away…well he knows them to. So if but one person is saved from it then I guess it is worth it.

How about caring on this conersation on, “Waiting in the House of Kindness” instead of here.

There are only 262 comments on this post, but either my system or my Internet Provider, (I think that it’s the latter)is making this page really hard to load.
And posting a message is almost impossible.

Marianne,
I think you just don’t get the point of the prophecies.
Daniel was given a vision of world politics from his own time all the way to the end times. This was to prove to the people of our days that the prophecy is true. It made no sense to Daniel, so it was sealed. But now that we have the advantage of history we can clearly see that God knew the future.
The prophecy tells us who the False Prophet is – the little horn which history shows us was the Vatican.
Daniel ends his beasts at Rome. The next beast we read of is in rev13. So the question is, is this new series of beasts related to Daniel’s beasts or are they totally different? For that matter, is there any correlation between the two books?
Well, of course they are related. Your whole idea is based on Daniel’s descriptions of the first four beasts. It comes down to just what John was trying to tell us about his first beast.

Lets recap Daniel:
Dan 7:8
I considered the horns, and, behold, there came up among them another little horn, before whom there were three of the first horns plucked up by the roots: and, behold, in this horn [were] eyes like the eyes of man, and a mouth speaking great things.
Dan 7:8
I considered the horns, and, behold, there came up among them another little horn, before whom there were three of the first horns plucked up by the roots: and, behold, in this horn [were] eyes like the eyes of man, and a mouth speaking great things.
Dan 7:11
I beheld then because of the voice of the great words which the horn spake: I beheld [even] till the beast was slain, and his body destroyed, and given to the burning flame.
Dan 7:12
As concerning the rest of the beasts, they had their dominion taken away: yet their lives were prolonged for a season and time.
Dan 7:25
And he shall speak [great] words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.

Daniel is describing the ten horns of Roman empire, the rise of the Vatican horn and the destruction of three of the original 10 countries. He mentions the “mouth” of the Vatican – the pope (False Prophet) speaking blasphemy, and how in the end, it will be destroyed (Babylon of Revelation). Then Daniel makes a curious statement – after describing the 4th beast (Rome) he says the other beasts, while no longer in power, their lives will be prolonged. So just how did say, Babylon, live on after being conquered? Well, their customs and religions were allowed to be practised in the new empire, so pagan customs like Saturnalia (Christmas) were carried over into successive civilizations. So therefore, Rome contained bits and pieces of Greek, Persian and Babylonian cultures and religions in it, in other words, a little bit lion, a bit of bear and a little leopard, mixed together. Finally he says the little horn will be in power for 1260 years.

Now check out John’s beast:
Rev 13:1
And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy.
Rev 13:2
And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as [the feet] of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority.
Rev 13:5
And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty [and] two months.

John describes a kingdom of 10 countries with only 7 kings – 3 had been plucked up. (Match #1)
Then he describes how Roman culture has bits of all the previous cultures imbedded in it. (Match #2)
Then he mentions the mouth (pope) and the fact that the kingdom is given power for 42 prophetic months = 1260 years. (Matches #3 & 4)

I dare you to try to find another kingdom in history that fits these verses. And if you look further, you will find another dozen verses that also fit the Holy Roman Empire and the Vatican perfectly. And if you believe all of this is still going to happen, show me current events that prove it is shortly to come to pass. A new kingdom of then countries arise, then another small country coming up and destroying three of them? When was the last time something like that happened?
Besides, it has all happened already. Why wait for it to repeat? And why would God give us the history of the church and leave a 2000 year gap in the story? Wasn’t the statue all one piece – contiguous? Each empire was replaced by the next, over and over again. You wouldn’t tell the history of America by discussing the revolution and then jumping to the moon landing, would you? I wouldn’t expect God to do so either.

Here is my point -KISS! (Keep It Simple, Stupid).
I used to teach this in my photography classes. Avoid a busy photograph – make a point simply and clearly. Don’t muddy it up.
You know from experience how much work it is to make Islam fit the prophecy. Most of it has to be ignored or simply tossed into the future, in which case you could create a scenario for just about anything you can imagine. Simple is better. And don’t forget those trillion to one odds that the prophecy would happen to fit my description. God has made it nearly impossible to mistake his prophecy for truth, yet most people reject it. Reject His word, reject Him.
I would recommend that anyone reading this re-read Revelation and Daniel carefully and decide if they have not been fulfilled by history. The Jews are still waiting for the first coming. How long are you prepared to wait?
Bless.

Yup, but I don’t see Greece defeating Medo-Persia (Iran/Iraq) again any time soon, so I doubt that anything else is going to double up either, and common sense tells me it is unlikely, so I guess time will tell, won’t it?

Marianne is correct James. You are missing the history of the Romans who scattered the Jews and stole their lands and the Caliphs swallowing the Romans,/Byzantium/Cradle of Christianty which was swallowed by the Ottomans which were swallowed by Britain which gave over their power to the countries they named and that make up all the countries Marianne named and that are Islamic today as much as what made up the head of Daniels statue and the new head of Islamiism today trying to set itself up as the new head of tje Beast of Islamic Sharia.The west or EU/UN whore that had Caholicism as its mother if you will sits on this beast wanting to get what it needs from Islam thinking they might control Islam but Islam hates the whore, the rest of the non-Muslim world. You have missed a great deal of history in persueing the madd Catholic doctrines preached too long by Replacement theology doctrines, without real study.

There is one theory that might explain that. John wrote what he saw. If you turn the greek 666 counter-clock-wise it gets very smilar to the arabic bizmillah, in the name of allah. I also read a while ago, that top freemasons revere a book on their altar, which is supposed to be the quran and allah is their god lucifer.

Sorry, it says to count the number of a man. Six hundred, fourscore and six, not 666. John couldn’t have understood Arabic numerals (666) so the fact that they kinda look like an arab iword turned sideways would have been lost on John. He never wrote the symbols “666” in his writings, only an actual number, expressed mathematically. I know Marianne has attempted to show this, but to me it is merely grasping at straws in order to make a point.
And if it is true and Allah is the beast, then Allah must be real. But God knows he is not real, so he would not use him in prophecy. And if you believe al Satan, then the beast and Satan are the same, and well, that’s just silly.
As far a the Freemasons go, I don’t believe the stories. Some masons I’ve known deny the rumors as ridiculous. Do you really think George Washington was a Satan worshipper? That’s the problem with “secret” societies. You can make up anything you want and they can only deny it. Why don’t you infiltrate them and let us know the truth?Unless of course you are turned to the dark side…
🙂

Since when is the last book of the bible the revelation of Satan? Again, you are claiming 100% opposite of what the very first verse of Revelation says. The things John saw were, “….the revelation of Jesus Christ,” not Satan.

Where did I say the Book of Revelation came from Satan? I just said that Satan can’t be the beast because it says that Satan, the beast and the False Prophet will all be destroyed. So Satan can’t be the beast, or the False Prophet.
As for Allah being real, if you do believe in him, then you believe that the Koran is a true, holy book. We all know it’s not true. So trying to fit Allah into bible prophecy is just silly.

What you wrote is 686! 😉
I am a little puzzled when I wanted to look it up in the greek translation. But then I found out, where I saw it. When you use the greek letters to display 666 then you get what I told you about.
OK, as long we do not see reality unfold we may be testing different options to what it could mean.
Allah does not exist? How’s that? Did God tell you? I know they are all but demons I am convinced that he is a rather big one considering the number of people he controls.
Those freemasons you know, what degree were they? I will try to find the source again for that.

Why James do you assume that John did not understand the Arabic considering he used these letters? That seems rather arrogant when one considers that many people in Jerusalem. Mediterranean the known world of that day often spoke 3 and 4 languages. Since the first Arabic of 512 Ad which is late for a language but considering it is a derivitive of Nabataean alphabet and more or less in this order:
It is thought that the Arabic alphabet is a derivative of the Nabataean variation of the Aramaic alphabet, which descended from the Phoenician alphabet, which among others gave rise to the Hebrew alphabet and the Greek alphabet (and therefore the Cyrillic and Roman alphabets). So it is most likely that John knew precisely what he wrote and that the translators into english had no clue, just as a monk translated the term ‘morning star’ with the name ‘lucifer added which clearly does not exist in the original text as 666 does not.

There were no numbers written without the use of Gamatria which is arriving at answers through numbers. allah is satans seat as the scripture clearly tells us in Revelation 2:13 ….

It is not impossible for the Holy Spirit to reveal this to John but nor is it a surprize that the term for this seat and the Islamic empire whose heart is from the Arabs that it should be written in the same language of the Arabs.

For those not aware of this text which is wrongly translated about the term ‘helayl ben shachar’ changed by Jerome and others into Lucifer – latin term and name for Venus or morning star of course. It is still wrongly translated.

Henry Neufeld (a Christian who comments on Biblical sticky issues) went on to say,
“this passage is often related to Satan, and a similar thought is expressed in Luke 10:18 by Jesus, that was not its first meaning. It’s primary meaning is given in Isaiah 14:4 which says that when Israel is restored they will “take up this taunt against the king of Babylon . . .” Verse 12 is a part of this taunt song. This passage refers first to the fall of that earthly king…
How does the confusion in translating this verse arise? The Hebrew of this passage reads: “heleyl, ben shachar” which can be literally translated “shining one, son of dawn.” This phrase means, again literally, the planet Venus when it appears as a morning star. In the Septuagint, a 3rd century BC translation of the Hebrew scriptures into Greek, it is translated as “heosphoros” which also means Venus as a morning star.

How did the translation “lucifer” arise? This word comes from Jerome’s Latin Vulgate. Was Jerome in error? Not at all. In Latin at the time, “lucifer” actually meant Venus as a morning star. Isaiah is using this metaphor for a bright light, though not the greatest light to illustrate the apparent power of the Babylonian king which then faded.”

Therefore, Lucifer wasn’t equated with Satan until after Jerome. Jerome wasn’t in error. Later Christians (and Mormons) were in equating “Lucifer” with “Satan”.http://www.lds-mormon.com/lucifer.shtml

Above I wrote an error I see and did not come back till now to correct it which is ‘ allah is satans seat’ I meant in Turkey is Satans’ seat. Pergamum (“I know where you live–where Satan has his throne. Yet you remain true to my name.” Revelation 2:13

Islam/The Ottomans have reigned in Turkey these 1400 years, as the letter to Pergamum says it is Satans seat, it is Islamic thus, their demi-god allah is satan where he dwells.

Sorry about the mistake. I’m always running around too much and run this off too quick sometimes.

Your logic is not logical. Jesus was talking about 7 Christian churches. Your logic is that because 2000 years after the Book of Revelation was written, the land where that church once stood is now Muslim territory, that Jesus was rebuking this church because it represents Islam. Using that logic, the church at Philadelphia which Jesus praised, is also in Muslim Turkey today, so Jesus is praising Islam?
There is no logic in transferring fulfilled prophecy from Christianity or Judaism over to Islam simply because the land has changed hands since the prophecy was given and fulfilled. Christian prophesy is about and for Christians, not any other religious group. If you don’t recognize this fact, and simply ignore it and think. “I pity the fool Muslims… they’re gonna get creamed by Jesus when He comes back,” you are in for a giant surprise pretty soon.
Ask not for whom the bell tolls… it tolls for thee.

Where have you read in scripture that the Bible is only for Christians? It was written for mankind, the sinners to find their way back to our Beloved Heavanly Father and the Witness and Root He first chose was Israel and then His grafted on Branches the Gentile Saved through Jesus Christ, these two witnesses dwelt on earth and the prophecies given in this Bible for mankind was written of the peoples, tongues and nations that dwelt on the earth and the Nations His children dwelt may have changed hands but you have missed the miracle that prophecy foretold of Islam that would come up and do all the things the scripture said they would and not what doctrines of men dictate.

What you say is foolishness and I do pity the Muslims who choose to hate and slaughter their neighbors and steal all their lands of which half of Africa is fallen to Islam through slaughter of the Lords children! They empty their lands throughout of all non-muslims especially of Jews and Christians. You should undertake the history of Islam, the world and though it is difficult read the hadiths and koran to see the slaughter is even more than I have just said for they loved to brag of all the beheadings, rapes and slaughter of millions throughout the middle east. And it is still happening though liberal media refuses to acknowledge or report it, you can find the many reports by honest people and Christians and Jews who set up sites that the slaughtered may not be forgotten daily James.

Marie Jean said, “You should undertake the history of Islam….”
——————————————————————————–
The above statement represents pointing the finger at someone while being guilty of worse. You agree with John Hagee that we should pre crime attack Iran don’t you. Will you deny the truth?

You are being fooled by this thinking. Christianity has just as much blood on it’s hands if not more. Satan’s seat is in Turkey? So now I guess we should bomb the hell out of Turkey right.

Do not listen to these mindless animalistic thinking christians…..They are wolves disguised as sheep.

What I am getting from this discussion is that when Jesus returns he will slaughter every innocent Muslim on earth for what some of their forefathers did years ago. Revenge, pure and simple. I guess Germany will have to go as well – for the Jews, you know. Sounds like something Allah would do.
And what happens to all the apostate Christian churches? Will Jesus let them all keep their pagan ways? If He marries the Catholic church He will become pope. You think that might happen? (Never mind, android.)
Sorry, I can’t see Jesus wiping out 1.3 billion Muslims for the crimes of their fathers. Now, if they attack Him in the battle of Armageddon, then I can see that happening. But plain old hate thy neighbor revenge? Not my God.
But maybe He will just wipe out Al Qaeda or something.
We’ll see.

I gather you have not and do not read the history of the world or of what is ocurring in the world today. It does not matter to you that half of Africa is in the slaughter of all that are not Muslim today. N. Sudan slaughtered 3 million animist and Christians in the last 30 years and they enslaved 2 million all from south Sudan. Did you scream at the unrighteous slaughter of them and are you screaming at the fatwahs recently sent out by the Imams of Saudi Arabia to all the Islamic countries in the Middle east today (this sent out a mere few months ago) to burn all Christian churches and slaughter all Christians who will not convert to Islam in their countries. Do you scream and cry like this every day after all the bombs and rockets are bombed into Israel these last 5 years and maime slaughter or destroy what and who they can without stop from the arabs of Gaza and the arabs of Israel? Do you scream at the fact that the Catholic church in its thousand year rule of the Harlots slaughtered dissident Christians and Jews that were more than the first WW and WWII put together and do you scream the same way when you hear that the Muslims slaughtered more than 400 million Hindus in India alone over only 400 years thinking they would anhialate the non- muslim peoples there in just a few years and they have continued to slaughter whereever they go. Islam the muslims have slaughtered the entire Cradle of Christianity, the Byzantine Empire and taken the land of Israel as their own. Do you think it was ok for God to judge Rome and all the previous empires and He has no right to judge Islams’ 1400 years slaughter and enslavement of all the countries they have taken and they would never be judged. We shall all be judged or are you James greater than God who made us all and has no pleasure in such violence? But, this is a courtroom as well and if you think justice is only for the ones you think should have it or should not, you are wrong, for we are all subject to what we and our leaders choose to do and to those we support. Even the slaughter of the hundreds of millions of unborn children shall be accounted for in this court of mankind and we were all the unborn and so we must all account for what we have to feel or say about this abomination James. These are no small accusations. These are terrible deeds to be judges so if you think Ezekiel 38 and 39 which speaks of these Muslim nations coming up against Israel to anhialate the Jews once and for all is too harsh a judgement on a hard hearted people then it is you who are in for a very big surprize for He is a just God and more just than you who do not bother to read and study whether these terrible crimes to date are happening and they are I assure you.Open your eyes and heart for you will see these people come upon Israel and Europe and wherever they can and attempt to fulfill their Qu’ran which orders the anhialation of all non-muslims or their enslavement or dhimmitude which is what Hitler made the Jews wear to demean them and show they were below the Muslim. These wonderful Innocent people you speak of choose who they will serve as all do and they alone bear the responsibility upon themselves for who it is they worship and serve, for they have had the gospel from the beginning for 1400 years when they chose to slaughter the Christians of all the lands they stole from 630 ad to today, after Rome did.If the Lord said He would leave a remnant of Israel and restore them to ;their lands in the last days, He did and has. If He says that He will Judge the Islamic countries for the evil they persist in doing as He says He will leave a sixth of them alive He will. Your response is rather strange to Him who has put up with so much wanton destruction by mankind that He had to destroy the earth in a flood and leave but 8 people alive and the creatures He sent into the ark!

You say that the location is part of the prophecy, but that is from your imagination. We are not told that the location is part of a future second fulfillment. Now, the term “King of the north” clearly indicates a location, but nothing in rev1-3 says we are to follow the locations of the churches in future times. You are making an assumption to prove a point. You can’t take something Jesus told a Christian church in 95AD and apply it to other churches built in that region 500 to 1500 years later that are completely different religion, and a false one at that. It is simply not logical, and if God is illogical, then we are all lost.

The first seven churches that John wrote to James were in Turkey and they were a warning to repent or their candlestick would be removed. It was. Only a skeleton remains of a few that have even now been threatened to leave Turkey or be anhialated and that warning was over a year ago. Many of the few Christians that are there are leaving because they are under constant attack. Nevertheless the original candlesticks were removed as Israel was removed. The last seven churches of the last 2000 years if you will when divided in this age of 2000 years and the Last day church is assumed to be the spiritual Laodicean church age, the lukewarm church of our day, which teaches much foolishness and displays its rich and decadent belief system while the suffering church we are not yet exposed to has always been here. I don’t suppose it matters that you cannot comprehend that the early churches is a type of us all being judged accordingly in the same way, but, I believe it is so and there is nothing more to it.

If John truly understood Arabic, and this theory is right, why did he make it so difficult to figure out? He could have said that the name of the False Prophet was “Allah” or whatever it would have been in greek.
You can easily claim that those who have the mark of the beast are Islamic because they follow the 666 beast. So that means it is of no consequence or importance to Christians, since they will never follow Allah. Then the Book of Revelation was written for Muslims, at least in part. So we must wait for a Muslim leader to take over the world and take control of the banking system. Then he will claim to be Jesus, and the world will follow him. No, the Muslims would kill him if he did that, and no Christian would believe him.
NOT GOING TO HAPPEN!
And as for the discussion on how many will be saved/lost when Jesus returns, here is my two cents.
When Christ returns, the true saints will be resurrected and those in the true church (Philadelphia) will be transfigured and will meet Him in the air. These will be priests and teachers in God’s millenial kingdom, the cream of the crop so to speak.
But there will be many Christians who will have the mark of the beast and while they will suffer the 7 last plagues, they will not die. They will remain in human form into the millennium and will live out their lives, have kids etc., then die. They will be resurrected at the end of the millennium and given eternal bodies and a place in God’s government, and will be rewarded based on their works. Those who rejected the commandments in their lives will be the least in the kingdom and those who do good works will be the most.
Those who reject the gospel will die in the lake of fire. But all will have a chance to be taught the truth, both pagans and false Christians – those who accepted “Babylon” pagan practices like Christmas, lent, Easter, valentines day and Sunday worship, along with maybe 100 other paganisms infiltrating almost every Christian church on earth today. Don’t want to give up Christmas presents? Lake of fire. Don’t like resting on Saturdays? Lake of fire. We will all have a choice and a chance at redemption. Maybe only half will accept Christ. The rest may believe that if they die in the lake, they will awake in their version of heaven, maybe with 72 virgins and other cool stuff. You pays your money and takes your chances on this one.
So if you believe that Jesus died for your sins, and if you will accept the “New Church of Jesus Christ” you will be fine. But don’t expect to become the bride of Christ if you are tainted by Babylon and refuse to jettison it. So don’t worry if you’re not in the true church when Jesus returns. So what if you miss the millennium. You’ll never know the difference anyway, and you can skip 1000 years of toiling to teach the masses that survive the tribulation all about the gospel of Jesus Christ. 1000 years of a Saturday Sabbath might rub a lot of people on this site the wrong way. Better to skip the hassle, right?
So that’s my prediction, take it or leave it. Babylon may be defined by Websters as confusion but that’s not how God is using it in His prophecy. If you mess with paganism, you will get burned. That is the warning and the whole point of the Book of Revelation. Ignore it, toss it onto the Muslims etc, and you are just asking for trouble.
Bless…

James the Muslims did take over the Christian and Jewish world. They took the entire Byzantine Empire which was the early Cradle of Christianity and the first Seven Churches of Revelation in Turkey. Christians just haven’t caught up to History, real history or the scriptures for reading doctrines and not reading bibles with the original texts, a dangerous thing to do.

James the false Prophet was Muhammed who created the vile and deadly religion of Islam which took over Jerusalem, Israel, Christian world of the early days the early Church, and from 637 to , 691 built Dome of the Rock the Abomination of Desolation when they tore down the Temple of Jupiter and its’ statue that curiously now stands as the statue of Peter at the Vatican.

Revelation 2:12 “And to the angel of the church in Pergamos write,

‘These things says He who has the sharp two-edged sword: 13 “I know your works, and where you dwell, where Satan’s throne is. And you hold fast to My name, and did not deny My faith even in the days in which Antipas was My faithful martyr, who was killed among you, where Satan dwells.
Pergamos in Turkey is where Satans throne is, it is his seat on earth and it is the Islamic rule that does his bidding through the adherants of Islam and those who whore with this evil religion are all a part of this beast. They have slaughtered many hundreds of millions of people, over 400 million in Indian alone these last 400 years, The muslim hordes that slaughtered the millions of the Byzantium early church era and the hundreds of millions of Africa and everywhere are more than those of other nations. Nothing comes near them for the slaughter of the saints, Jews and Christians which is their special hate.

I understand your historical points, but the scriptures do not confirm it. Daniel 7 and rev13 clearly describe the Holy Roman Empire and the Vatican. The ten horns and the little horn which destroyed three of those ten. The time frame – 1260 years fits the Holy Roman Empire, but not Islam or the Ottoman Empire.
Over 20 verses fit my interpretation correctly, but almost none fit Islam, except for general phrases like killing saints. Most Christians killed by Muslims were killed in military actions and more Muslims were killed than Christians. The Vatican killed its own people in the inquisitions. Over 100 million, far more than died in the Muslim crusades. And the Vatican went after God’s true church who rebelled after the council of Laodicea. Then they were forced to flee into the wilderness, in Austria and Switzerland etc. (rev12).
I have tried to make the verses fit your theory, as I do with all theories, just to be sure, but it simply does not fit.
Read rev13 carefully and try to tie every verse to Islamic history and see what you get… a mess!
And don’t just throw stuff you can’t figure out into the future and say it is going to happen soon.
As I told Marianne earlier, the odds that all the verses in Daniel and Revelation should happen to fit the Holy Roman Empire and the Vatican is over 40 trillion to one. And so you are claiming it is all just an amazing coincidence? You are rejecting the truth in order to try to prove some other theory that makes you feel better since it won’t affect you personally, but a whole other religion.
You are thinking with your heart and not your mind. That is common and understandable. The Book of Revelation is surely a puzzle. You must get all the pieces to fit together or else you need to keep moving the pieces around until they all fit. Once this is done, the image on the puzzle becomes clear.
As the second coming draws near, the correct interpretation will become clear, assuming someone at some time has told you the true interpretation.
So listen to me now and understand me later. That is all I ask.
Bless.

The restoration of the Holy Roman Empire is a fallacy only depicted in doctrines of men and not the scriptures and though Christians like you choose to discard the billion slaughtered by Islam I shall not. For it is all history filled and prophecy fulfilled and there is no sense in going on about these foolish doctrines that have no bearing to the world today. Europe is falling under Islam…take a real look James.

Your strange mark of the beast 666 does not exist and the original words are not that at all! The translators altered so much of the oritginal texts of scripture to make it scripture of the Catholic Church and Christians as a whole have failed to correct all of it as a whole though there are many that produced the Lexicons and Greek and Hebrew Concordances if you wanted to really read the real Bible you might and we do.

It is the number of the beast is Hilal Ben Sahar….those who bear the symbol of this name is Islam! Always has been and no amount of prodding and pulling will alter these facts to what you teach.

The restored Holy Roman Empire is almost here. The Roman empire is restored as the EU, and the Vatican became a beast (kingdom) in 1929. As the Muslims continue to infiltrate Europe the Christians will counter them by giving the Vatican control over the churches in Europe with the pope in complete control. Islam will be banned and Sunday worship will become mandatory. This will be the mark of the beast. It will test the obedience of Christians to God’s commandments. Those who do not follow the commandments and keep the testimony of Jesus Christ will have the mark. The False Prophet (pope) will force his followers to break the 4th commandment as well as the second, which the Catholic church removed from their bible.
Watch for this to happen. Whatever you may believe about an Islamic antichrist taking over the world and chipping every living soul and requiring everyone to worship him is never going to happen. Neither is the rapture. I don’t care how you try to alter the meanings of the prophecy, it won’t work.
Who is your first beast? Who is the second? Who is the image of the second beast? When was the beast wounded? How does 1260 years fit in? Who are the ten horns? Who is the little horn? Who did the little horn destroy? I have answered every one of these questions with perfect fitting scripture. I challenge you to do the same.
All you have said is 666 kinda looks like “Allah” after you turn it and distort it, and that modern radical Muslims are killing Christians. You’re going to need more proof than that. You are warned in Revelation not to take away from anything in the book. If you can answer my questions above with accuracy, then you will have a start, but only a start. Your theory has heart but no legs. It will not stand the scrutiny of the scriptures.
Anyway, I’m curious to see what you come up with.I’m listening…

You condemn Islam for past murders and with the very same breath endorse their murder. This is not the seal of God’s character but the seal of a beast. You are preaching kill or be killed. Jesus told you not to fear him who can kill the body yet you utterly ignore it, beating a war drum to destroy Muslims. You are 100% following the beast’s character. Words on a page told you Muslims are evil and you believe it. Were you there? Are words on a page God just like I told you earlier? You hear or read a news report and suddenly all Islam is evil and should be killed. You are way too easy to deceive. You claim you are not of this world yet you receive news reports from the world with open arms.

And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name. Revelation 14:11.

And,

And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone. Revelation 19:20.

As opposed to the following;

And I saw as it were a sea of glass mingled with fire: and them that had gotten the victory over the beast, and over his image, and over his mark, [and] over the number of his name, stand on the sea of glass, having the harps of God. Revelation 15:2.

And,

And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and [I saw] the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received [his] mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. Revelation 20:4.

alienated,
All of this fits perfectly with my interpretation. The beast is the Vatican and the False Prophet is the pope. The woman that rides the beast is the Catholic church. It is headquartered in the city of 7 hills and its priests wear purple and the cardinals wear crimson. A golden cup symbolizes the mass. The church is fabulously wealthy and is in every nation on earth. It is full of abominations and pagan practices which began with the Mystery Babylon religion in the time of Nimrod and Semiramis. Every verse of Revelation fits perfectly. The Catholic church will be destroyed as well as all of its harlot daughter churches who still use pagan practices and festivals and who don’t obey the commandments. Everything in these verses fit my interpretation perfectly. I don’t see how these verses refer to Islam. Some people believe they refer to the US and others think it is Hollywood or Las Vegas. You can stick just about any apostate entity in here and it might look like it works. You must start with Daniel and continue thru rev13 to identify the beasts. Who are your beasts of Revelation and how do they fit the scriptures, including the 1260 years that the beast is given its authority?

“But there will be many Christians who will have the mark of the beast and while they will suffer the 7 last plagues, they will not die. They will remain in human form into the millennium and will live out their lives, have kids etc., then die. They will be resurrected at the end of the millennium and given eternal bodies and a place in God’s government, and will be rewarded based on their works. Those who rejected the commandments in their lives will be the least in the kingdom and those who do good works will be the most.”

That’s why I gave you the following examples to consider from Gods Word;

And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name. Revelation 14:11.

And,

And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone. Revelation 19:20.

As opposed to the following;

And I saw as it were a sea of glass mingled with fire: and them that had gotten the victory over the beast, and over his image, and over his mark, [and] over the number of his name, stand on the sea of glass, having the harps of God. Revelation 15:2.

And,

And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and [I saw] the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received [his] mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. Revelation 20:4.

Tell me did you happen to read the two posts that I made earlier today below at the bottom of this thread?
Perhaps you may find them interesting. Perhaps not?

If you mean the post with rev13 and 18, I have read them hundreds of times. Everything in them matches with my interpretation and only a few verses match Islam and only if you tweak it a bit. I tried to use Islam, the US and a bunch of other entities, but nothing else fit perfectly.
I think when you (and others) read the verses you have a preconceived notion and you look for bits and pieces that seem to fit, and just go with it. Its funny but several people have thrown verses at me saying they contradict my theory, but when I read them it reconfirms my interpretation every time.
Weird huh?
Guess some people simply can’t recognise the truth or they try to bend history or the verses to get them to match up. All you need to know is that the 1260 year time frame is mentioned 3 or 4 times and only the Holy Roman Empire (538-1798) will fit. This eliminates every other theory out there right out of the box. Then add the little horn wiping out three of the ten kingdoms and you’re lost. Never happened in Islam. Only the killing of the saints coincides with the Holy Roman Empire. That’s only one verse. Get over it and show me the rest of the verses. I will listen. I’ve done this before. Convince me that Islam fits better than the Holy Roman Empire / Vatican scenario and I will become a believer. That’s how I got to where I’m at now. I used to be where you are and eventually moved on to a better explanation. But I invite you to try, just the same. Perhaps as you study the verses more closely you will come to the inevitable conclusion that I have myself.
Good luck.

Your numbers are not interpreted or understood from the Hebrew calendars or in time relative to them and Israel so there is certainly no need to discuss this further. And no I certainly do not wish to go back into the darkness of english/latin translation through english dictionaries that you are stuck in. I will go on with the Lord too but I do not wish to remain in blindness and use English renditions to show the word of God refers to only Christians, thank you very much. I got off that train going no where 30 years ago and have no wish to return. I know where you are coming from since most of us Christians were birthed in that blindness but I do not want to return to such empty darkness. I will take the Greek and Hebrew/Aramaiic scriptures which the Word of God was written in any day!

“If John truly understood Arabic, and this theory is right, why did he make it so difficult to figure out? He could have said that the name of the False Prophet was “Allah” or whatever it would have been in greek.
You can easily claim that those who have the mark of the beast are Islamic because they follow the 666 beast. So that means it is of no consequence or importance to Christians, since they will never follow Allah.”

James from your statement, you obviously do not understand that the Aramaiic, Arabic, Hebrew Language all are of the same derivitives. which means they came from out of early Mesopatamian language. .I wrote of it somewhere in here, which often contain the same words and elements. The Jews would understand it well enough as do the Muslims and Greeks.

It is us today who do not use the original texts along side our translations which were done from Latin in order to put what ever they wanted the scripture to say. We are the ones that truly do not understand who persist in reading the altered english translations and you note I say translation because they are altered tfrom the original exts because the translatiors often wanted to expedite Replacement theology to make the Catholic church the mighty power it became for the thousand years rule of the darkness of the Harlot church. Once you get over these facts and they are not theories, you can get on with real study of the Word of God.

Sorry James I failed to mention that what you said about the word should have been in Greek makes no sense when you realize the term used is actually known in Hebrew as well as Arabic and that an Aramaiic derivitive which is all the same and is:

Understood by the Hebrew if any would care to ask them is “Hilal ben sahar..hilal means cresent/moon which Muhammed stole from the ancient moon worship of his day, the Kaaba the stone of worship to the people they slaughtered when they took Mecca and or course the tomb of Muhammed in Medina and this was taken by slaughter by Muhammed, Muslims conquered Mecca and Muhammed made these two things the base of his moon god…allah whatever but in fact it means moon god which interestingly enough the Catholic church puts under Mary statue, and Russia Orthodox church places the crescent under their cross…hmmm food for thought.

The term used by Islam hilal ben sahar is their term for their demi-god allah.

I claim that the harlot Catholic church is the woman that rides the Vatican beast. You agree that the Catholic church is apostate and will need to be destroyed and replaced with the true church. The number of the pope is 666 – the number of a man – his title in latin w/roman numerals.
Here is the verse that kills your theory:
Rev 13:18
Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number [is] Six hundred threescore [and] six.

You need to count the number of a man. Allah is not a man, and turning a number sideways, then jiggling it around a bit and looking at in another language is NOT counting a number. Keep it Simple, stupid! is my mantra. To make your idea fit you have to change the meaning of the prophecy and perform un-biblical operations to the text. This is not biblical. Show us where God used this trick in the past and I might give it some more thought.

Yes, why did he not tell us straight:”This guy is someone sitting in Rome and saying he is the Vicar of Christ?” Why this math anyway? At this point in time Allah was just one of many gods in the Quaba in Mecca. Probably few would know him at that time. I do not say that this is the sole truth, but it is worthy of a thought. All this is really not a condition to get saved. The muslims will try to kill him? No way, because they expect their version of Jesus to come down from heaven and fight the armees of the dajjal/their evil one together with the iman mahdi and they will lead all world to the religion of allah. In this, the bible and the quran describe the same events but from opposite directions.Then you say some truth but what now came blew me out of my socks.
“But there will be many Christians who will have the mark of the beast and while they will suffer the 7 last plagues, they will not die. They will be resurrected at the end of the millennium and given eternal bodies and a place in God’s government, and will be rewarded based on their works”
What? You can’t be serious with that. Those who take the mark, will suffer the worst punishment from God.
Christians, who will have the mark? If they were serious Christians in the first place they have thrown it away for a few years of a miserable life. You take the mark and worship the idol, you are toast, spiritually speaking.
I read your post to the end and wanted to write more but I thought, this is so surreal what he wrote, is he pulling someone’s leg?

John was a prisoner of Rome when he wrote Revelation. He could not have said anything about Rome that his jailers could understand or his text would likely be censored. Not that that was an issue since the visions God gave him were heavily couched in symbolism.

In regards to the mark:
Rev 9:4
And it was commanded them that they should not hurt the grass of the earth, neither any green thing, neither any tree; but only those men which have not the seal of God in their foreheads.
Rev 9:5
And to them it was given that they should not kill them, but that they should be tormented five months: and their torment [was] as the torment of a scorpion, when he striketh a man.
Rev 9:6
And in those days shall men seek death, and shall not find it; and shall desire to die, and death shall flee from them.

Those with the mark will suffer but not die. Those with the seal will not be bothered. Satan uses a mark, like an illiterate person. God uses a seal – like a king. God seals His followers in their foreheads (minds) with His laws. Satan marks his people with disobedience of God’s laws.

Check rev14:
Rev 14:10
The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:
Rev 14:11
And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.
Rev 14:12
Here is the patience of the saints: here [are] they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

Here we see those who have the mark are suffering the last plagues, but those that keep the commandments of God are the true saints.

Sure looks like you will have to keep God’s commandments or else you will have the mark.
The mark, as I said, is disobedience to God’s laws. Yet rev13 says the world will follow the beast. This refers to the Christian world and the beast is the Vatican. Most of today’s Christians are catholic and already follow the beast. They teach the breaking of the commandments through Sunday worship. This will be the mark. Most people already think the commandment was changed a long time ago, and that God is OK with that, but He isn’t.
You believe the mark will worshipping a man – a Muslim antichrist who will rule the world with an iron fist. This will never happen. The mark is already here and virtually nobody sees it. Satan has succeeded.
But you know the saddest thing? Most people will think I’m crazy and will actually side with the beast. I actually expect it. As it says, the whole world will follow the beast.Very few will follow the lamb.
Call me crazy but I’m sealing the word of God in my forehead, putting His laws into my mind. Fail to do that and you will surely have the mark.

There is no 666 but there is in the name of allah conquer
The badge of allegiance worn by Muslims today on the right arm and/or the forehead is the Bismillah with the crossed swords. Bismillah means “in the name of Allah”.
In Revelation 13, what the Apostle John saw is recorded as the Greek symbols Chi, Xi, Stigma, which appear in the lettering of the Islamic badge of honour in the crossed swords, and “in the name of Allah”, and recorded in Greek appears to be this same name in aramaiic. Is this why Walid Shoebat immediately saw” In the name of allah conquer” There is no 666 but Chi Xi Stigma which exposes the same “insignia, mark or badge of allegiance” worn by muslims today on their right arm or forehead?????
So does the text read the insignia or mark or badge of allegiance and the counting or numbering of this beast (worn by muslims today arm or forehead)
the lexicon found at http://BlueLetterBible.org defines this counting, or calculation as thus:
From the Greek ψηφίζω – ‘psēphizō’ – (psā-fē’-zō) – verb:
1) to count with pebbles, to compute, calculate, reckon
2) to give one’s vote by casting a pebble into the urn
3) to decide by voting
It would appear it is not a number of calcualation but a vote for or choice of allegiance as in voting…and the sign or badge or insignia marking this vote is not a number but a name of allah to conquer. The foolish translations into english of scholars who misunderstood has led to much disturbing misunderstanding today has it not. There is not right calcualation of translations but there is right interpretation of original texts.

I should have added that the term ‘count’ english is more correctly understood with the above as:

The term ‘count’ in english in the Rev verse is the greek – psephizo – to use pebbles to count or vote. from the greek psephos – a pebble worn smooth- a counter or ballot hence a verdict or ticket of admission.

Thus the entire meaning does not leave the reader the freedom to use gamatria like an astrology chart we can see but, to use much more thought in using the original text for study and not the translations as the Words John spoke.

A name signifies character. You do not have to be Muslim to have the character of a beast. Pointing the finger at Muslims reminds me of Jesus writing in the sand. People who think like you cannot understand the simplest of lessons. We are supposed to listen to you when you speak about darker, deep sayings?

lol lol lol I was not pointing fingers sir I was expounding on scripture to Mariannes pointed remark to you on a mark of the beast which certainly has nothing to do with anything you are saying. I suspect Marianne knows fulwell what I meant. I was quoting mistaken and incorrectly translated texts on her cute and pointed remark above. I do not speak dark or deep sayings for they are out in the open clear for anyone who has ears to hear or eyes to read the original Word of God…all of it and not picked out pieces used to attack what rankles.

I tend to agree the “day of the Lord” is the last year of the 7 years…these vs tend to make me think that: Isaiah 63:4 For the day of vengeance is in mine hear, and the year of my redeemed is come, Isaiah 61:2 To proclaim the acceptable year of the Lord, and the day of vengeance of our god; to comfort all that mourn and Isaiah 34:8 For it is the day of the Lord’s vengeance, and the year of recompences for the controversy of Zion..

to Lamb and the Dragon.
You seem to think that G-d Will save all men irraspective of their behaviour. This statement if it what you are implying is a bit hard to prove.
All mankind will come from the grave as resurected personages, save those who are unredeamed. I.E. Satan and his angels. Those who have aligned themselves with Satan Knowingly or unknowingly will also rise with their bodies, but because of their wickednes, will suffer the same fate as Satan. Pauls says in first Corintians about the type of bodies people receive graduated to their worthyness and works. There being Three. The first like the sun will be inhabited by those who by their works and faith etc are worthy to dwell with God and Jesus. The other two will be filled by those of varying worthyness acording to their works and faith. If it was otherwise why bother with works and faith? God is fair and just and no respecter of persons. He will reward all persons according to their worthyness. If I’m in heaven and my neighbour is a blasphemer, drunkard etc. Will I be Happy?

If words on a page told you to jump off of a high bridge, would you?
The following scripture 100% contradicts what you just said: Romans 5:18 (New International Reader’s Version) “One man’s sin brought guilt to all people. So also one right act made all people right with God. And all who are right with God will live. ”
——————————————————————————

“Then shall two be in the field….” A beast thinker, and a lamb thinker. Which do you choose?

Thanks for your directness. Should it turn out that way, I will say:”Glory, hallelujah” but until then..
Besides, it does not really matter what I do believe or not. If that’s God’s will, it will happen, no matter what.
What did Jesus say about Judas? It were better for him if he hadn’t ever been born? Well, I guess he did not mean it that strong!
😯

Re Danials interpretation of Nebuchanezer dream. We are living in the days of the toes made of a mixture of iron and clay. The dissolution of the E.U. and the troubles of other world powers indicate that the end is near. yet at the doors.
The people who fight against Israel at the battle of Armagedon are as you say from Islamic countries.Gog and Magog. From memory the countries are Lybia, Egypt, Syria, Iran, Iraq. Tho not by that name in the Bible.

David may 18 yes, the old saying west is west and east is east and never the twain shall meet is that very scripture of the iron and clay not adhering and it is all crumbling together today. Rome was the iron from which the free world has come and the Islamic countries and all that partake with it is the clay I think. The deeper meaning of the stones great but simple work in striking this statue upon it’s feet comes maybe when Israel is attacked by Islam Ezekiel 38 and 39, when the Lords’ fury shall rise up to judge them finally, once and for all.

marie J The feet made of iron and clay. This is the world today, the uncut strone will destroy this world. Only the rightous will survive, wether they be Muslim, Christian, Buddhist, or what ever. God is no respecter of persons, we are are individually judged on our works, if wev’e led a blameless life
(no one is perfect) Then we are washed in the Blood of the Lamb not literally. WE supply the works to the best of our ability, Jesus supplies the Grace to take away our sins, as we become repentant and change our lives to model his, so we partake of his sacrifice, finaly passing through the redeeming fire to burn out all the dross within us .This is so he can present us to His Father, our God, and enter into his rest.

to lambandthedragon.
One mans sin brought guilt (death)to all people. This is refering to Adam. who by his sin brought death into the world. The Saviours death, brought life into the world. Therefore all persons who have had a body will in the ressurection receive a new body. No exceptions. The type of body they receive will depend upon their works. We can not be saved by our works, because we are not perfect, however by the Grace of Christ, rightous and believing individuals, can be and are saved, in that Kingdom that they are entitled to.

I don’t think Ezekiel’s war of Gog/Magog is related to the statue. The statue represents God’s people and the kingdoms who controlled them. The toes represent the last four of 8 kingdoms mentioned by John. The first 4 were from Daniel. The last four are from Revelation. These four follow the Roman empire – the Holy Roman Empire (538-1798), the vatican empire (1929-present), The revived Roman empire (EU – 2010), and the revived Holy Roman Empire (still to come).
None of these kingdoms are going to repeat, at least not until after the 8th is done. Then maybe they can start repeating. (Yeah, right). You can’t repeat a prophecy until it has completed the first time.
Since the statue represents God’s church, and the stone represents Jesus, Daniel is confirming that when Christ returns, He will destroy all apostasy in His churches (as hinted in the letters to the 7 churches), and create His own government (represented by the mountain). In revelation, Babylon is destroyed. Remember, the head of the statue was Babylon, so when the statue is destroyed, so is Babylon. God broke up the founders of Babel due to their false worship and pagan ways. When He returns, this latent paganism will be destroyed for good. Otherwise android might be right and Jesus will simply become the last pope and we will all become catholics.
I don’t see any way to add Islam into the story. At least not by using scripture. Sure Islam is in the history books, but they have little to do with God’s church. No more than Buddhism or Hindi. No need to punish them for being unbelievers. They will be defeated in the war of Gog, but that is a separate prophecy.
Just as the Jews were punished for their sins by the Babylonian captivity, the Christians will likewise be judged soon. The punishment will be the mark of the beast. Those who think their faith alone will save them will be in for a shock. And those that think they will be raptured will be totally bewildered when stuff starts to go down and they are still here. Unfortunately there are many false teachers who preach this stuff, and they garner a lot of followers who derive great comfort by the assurance that they only have to sit back and wait and everything will wonderful. It’s the reverse of how the Catholic church invented hell and purgatory to get people to come to church every (pagan) Sunday, and to collect indulgences to build the great cathedrals of Europe.
I’m afraid the truth lies somewhere in between.

James,
Could you tell us all what you mean by your statement …”Since the statue represents God’s church, and the stone represents Jesus, Daniel is confirming that when Christ returns, He will destroy all apostasy in His churches” …?
Does Daniel really say that, or are you putting things in that are not written?
I for one, do not understand what you say about something that is NOT written in Daniel Chapter 2. What it says, is that Babylon is the HEAD.

Daniel 2:32. This image’s head [was] of fine gold, his breast and his arms of silver, his belly and his thighs of brass,
33. His legs of iron, his feet part of iron and part of clay.
34. Thou sawest till that a stone was cut out without hands, which smote the image upon his feet [that were] of iron and clay, and brake them to pieces.
38. And wheresoever the children of men dwell, the beasts of the field and the fowls of the heaven hath he given into thine hand, and hath made thee ruler over them all. THOU [ART] THIS HEAD OF GOLD.
39. And after thee shall arise another kingdom inferior to thee, and another third kingdom of brass, which shall bear rule over all the earth.
40. And the fourth kingdom shall be strong as iron: forasmuch as iron breaketh in pieces and subdueth all [things]:

As I read it, Daniel Chapter 7 reveals the 4 MAJOR powers in the World of the 20th and 21st Century, just PRIOR to the STONE (Jesus) destroying Mankind’s kingdoms and setting up His everlasting Kingdom.
These 4 kingdoms are …#1 LION (Prussian Empire – Germany) has Eagle’s wings (Look at the Emblems of the Nazi era) and it LOST it’s “Wings” after 1945 and was told to stand on 2 “Feet” (East and West Germany.
#2 Beast is a BEAR Russia, had the 3 RIBS (Parts of an animal) Yugoslavia consisted of 3 Major Ethnic groups, Serbia, Croatia, Bosnia. (these started the Balkan War ~1990. The Bear raised on its side (East) and told to devour MUCH flesh (Eastern European Block)
Beast #3 is the U.K. – … England, Wales Ireland and Scotland (Depicted as 4 Heads) and DOMINION was given it. (British COMMONWEALTH… of which Canada, Australia, New Zealand, Fiji, and many other countries are)

The BEAST #4 is the League of Nations/ United Nations with the 7 Heads (G7) and 10 Horns (World Trade Organization of 10 divisions)
As it is the UNITED Nations, it contains the FORMER 3 Beasts/Animals as Depicted in REVELATION 13.
Please note:- The G7 became the G8 when RUSSIA joined the G7.

Rev.17:11. And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the EIGHTH, and is of the SEVEN, and goeth into perdition.

What that last verse says, is that Russia WAS the “BEAR”, but no longer IS that POWER with 3 Ribs and East Block, but is now PART of the G7.

We know for sure what the animals represented, Daniel told us so and desscribed the battles. There is no indication that any of these represent end-time events – those are separate – the kings of the North (EU), South (Iran) and East (China). To expect a repeat of Alexander the Great is simply nuts. Its like expecting another flood like Noah’s. Not all prophesy is dual.
You are complicating the prophecy by trying to make it do all sorts of tricks. Sometimes you have to leave filfilled prophecy alone and let it serve its purpose – to prove God knew the future, now being the past.
I never meant that the statue represented the actual church, but the empires that ruled over the church. They are the only kingdoms God really wants to talk about. All 8 kingdoms are sequential and consequential. Each one comes out of the previous one. It is a single story. Like the history of Texas. First, native American, then Spanish, then Mexican, then Independent, then a territory then a state, changing shape and size over time.
Well this is the story of God’s territory, and today, His territory is not Islamic. Who controls most of the Christian church and its great wealth? The Vatican, that’s who. If they were the true church, God would be happy, but they are not, and He is not. All of this prophecy leads up to the bride of Christ, pure and simple. All of the other crap going on in the world is secondary and will be handled after the marriage.
I know you relish the idea of coming up with unusual theories that can make for interesting blog discussions, but I think you often go over the top, like with that Nibiru nonsense. I think you like to look at the “little picture” rather than the big picture, as I do. You like to take every word and phrase and see how many different ways it could possibly be interpreted and then offer it up as a topic for discussion. Many of your posts have done this. While it may be fun to do, it creates many possible false interpretations and complicates the prophesy unnecessarily, in my opinion.
I know you will never change – you will always be looking for newer and crazier theories to keep this site fresh and new, so i say, bring ‘em on and I will keep trying to keep you honest and to make sense out of the confusion.
🙂

Things are stressful Mark.
But the LORD Yeshua’s Grace is indeed sufficient.

You are in my prayers and you are doing what you are supposed to be doing.
Follow the lead of the Spirit and you can’t go wrong.
Remember as well, the LORD is the Aleph and the Tav, (the beginning and the end), and He has seen already as to how all of this unfolds.
So no matter what you do, He has already seen it all beforehand.
That means that if we are His, we can TRUST in Him, because He is even bigger than our mistakes.

We serve an Amazing and Glorious God Mark.
Be Blessed in all that He provides to you, and thank Him constantly for that.

Praise Yeshua our KING of kings and LORD of lords my brother.
May the God Almighty shine His Face upon you.

Love,
a.

P.S. I pray that I can post this? I am having many difficulties with my system, but God is protecting everything so far. Amen.

Hi Leatherneck,
Sorry if I come off as arrogant when I talk. As a former teacher, I know you must speak as an authority if you want your students to believe you know what you’re talking about.
I do enjoy using sarcasm however, just to make my points. This may annoy some people but it serves its purpose to get people to remember what I’ve said.
You see, I don’t think I will actually change any minds here. Everyone is pretty much set in their beliefs. I was raised Catholic so it took me a long time to reject the concept of hell as well as many other religious beliefs and practices. For example, I no longer believe the pope is the fleshy embodiment of Christ, or that a priest can forgive sins or turn wine into the actual blood of Jesus.
Hell was invented by the church around 1200 AD, based on teachings of Plato and other greek philosophers. While I am not Jewish, Jesus was a Jew and as such never taught of hell or heaven as a destination after one dies. Quite the opposite, he taught His disciples that one sleeps, knowing nothing, until he comes again to resurrect them. Everything we believe about hell is due to clever manipulation of various scriptures that can be pulled out of context to make the point. Believe it or not, it is up to you. But I’m telling you, it is Babylon and will be destroyed with all the other pagan beliefs that have infiltrated the church over the centuries.
Consider the true church – probably like the church at Philadelphia in rev3. Since the apostles were Jewish, their churches and services were likely very close to how Jesus taught when He was alive. And they would have been conducted on Saturday, not Sunday. So when Jesus returns I expect He will still consider Himself a Jew, so don’t expect Him to don the pope’s fish hat (pagan) and say mass at the Vatican.
In fact, you can count on Him to destroy the Vatican system the statues, graven images, pagan symbols, rituals and holidays (sorry, no more Christmas folks). You would have to be quite arrogant yourself to tell Jesus when He returns that you still want to celebrate the birthday of Baal so your kids can get presents every year. And I would really like to hear the conversation between you two where you try to explain why we changed the Sabbath to Sunday and how you think we should keep it there, please Jesus, if you don’t mind.
But I’m afraid He WILL mind. A lot.
So do you really want to have that conversation with Him later? I don’t think so. But God has a plan to return the Sabbath to Saturday. He is going to learn folks the hard way. Someday soon, people like me, perhaps the 144,000 and the 2 witnesses will preach repentance for sin, including breaking the 4th commandment. Most people will think they are a nuisance or just crazy. The pope will try to have them silenced. People will reject their message to return the Sabbath to the 7th day. They will be sorry. They will suffer the last plagues, and if you think giving up smoking is painful, giving up Sunday worship will be a billion times worse.
Sure, you think I’m nuts, now. But when this scene begins, perhaps you will remember my words and stop following the beast. I hope so.
But most people will keep looking for an Islamic antichrist and a chip in the right hand and all that other crap and totally miss the prophecy. Ouch!
So ridicule me now and thank me later, I don’t mind. Jesus was ridiculed by the pharisees and others in His time, so I’m in good company.
Bless…

Those that are “Born Again” in Yeshua the KING of kings and LORD of lords, are students of the Spirit of Truth.

You speak of way to many things that are contrary to God’s Word of Truth.
You say that you don’t believe in Hell.
What would Jude 1:7. refer too then?

Even as Sodom and Gomorrah, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication , and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of “eternal fire”.

“Eternal fire” sorta sounds a lot like Hell.

And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a “lake of fire” burning with brimstone. (Revelation 19:20.)

And the devil that deceived them was cast into the “lake of fire” and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever. (Revelation 20:10.)

And death and hell were cast into the “lake of fire”. This is the second death. (Revelation 20:14.)

And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the “lake of fire”. (Revelation 20:15.)

The “lake of fire” sounds a lot like Hell too.

These are just a few examples. It wasn’t invented by anybody, it is in Gods Word.
Most everything that your little fingers type is contrary to God’s Word.
I will listen to God thank you, and I suggest that all the others do the same.

Praise be to Yeshua our KING of kings and LORD of lords. Our Worthy and Holy Lamb. Amen.
To those of the SPIRIT of TRUTH, follow only that of HIM and not man.
Amen.
a.

I have not made fun of you in any way. I am not part of the Universal Church, and I believe the Pope is not Christ on earth. I believe Christmas was a pagan Holiday turned into Christ’s birthday. Easter is another pagan Holiday with eggs, and bunnies due to Samaries, and Tammuz. I do not need a Priest to talk to G-d in Christ’s name.

Now, why did Christ come if there is no hell? Why do we need the word made flesh? Where is Lucifer going to be bound?

Leatherneck / alienated,
I’m glad to see you recognize some of the pagan ideas that mostly came from ancient Babylon. Do you realize that Mystery Babylon was the name of the Tammuz religion? And so the Babylon in Revelation that will be destroyed is going to be these pagan practices, right? So much for Babylon being Islamic.
As far as hell goes, I’ve got some literature that explains everything in detail, but these books are longer than this entire blog, so all I can say is you need to research the topic and do so with an open mind. If hell didn’t exist before Christ, why didn’t Jesus teach His disciples that God was going to create a new place to replace sheol/hades – the grave – and offer plenty of details as to where it is and how it operates.
So do you believe that Satan is in hell right now in a red suit with a pitchfork tormenting the wicked, who apparently have already been judged, resurrected into an eternal body, and sent to the underworld? This is not what Jesus taught. For example (1 of 14 in the book) when Jesus told the disciples at Galilee that their sick friend Lazarus had fallen asleep they thought that was good, since he did need rest to recover, but then Jesus corrected them and said no, he has died and was asleep, as are all the dead. Then when Jesus raised him from the dead after four days, He did not call him down from heaven. If he had, he would have had to take Lazarus out of his eternal body, torn him away from the father in heaven, and stuck him back into his old, ailing body. Bummer, eh? If I was Lazarus, I’d be pissed at Jesus for pulling such a stunt, just to show off His power of miracles.
No, it makes no sense. Of course there are verses to prove anything you want, and the Catholic church mad great use of that fact.
The Lake of Fire is not hell. It symbolizes the action of God. Sinners are destroyed in the lake, whose fires are unquenchable. The devil, False Prophet and the beast will be tormented forever, at least symbolically. But sinners like you and me are never going to be tortured by a God of love for a billion trillion years. Would you worship such a God? Believe me, when you study the topic and finally jettison the concept of hell and purgatory etc, you will have an even greater respect for the Lord.
Here is a weird verse:
(Revelation 20:10.) And death and hell were cast into the “lake of fire”. So if the Lake of Fire is hell, then hell is cast into itself. And why is death itself sent to burn forever in the pits of hell? What does that mean?
The problem is that King James used the word hell for the Hebrew sheol (grave) wherever possible in order to firmly implant the idea of hell into their bible. In the same way, the greek Hades” was changed to hell rather than grave or resting place underground – tomb.
So the verse should read “Death and the grave were destroyed forever, as they are no longer necessary. So replace hell with grave everywhere in the bible and you will find the true meanings of the verses. There are 63 cases of grave in the bible, and about half of them have been changed, I went thru half of those on a video I watched, and it convinced me for good.
If you like I can find a comprehensive video lecture on this topic. I have been listening to many of these for years now and all my former assumptions were blown out of the water.
I’m not here to be a teacher although I write like one because I was one (sorry if that offends anyone) so I will just plant a seed and let you water it on your own if you truly want to search for the truth.
Bless, and happy gardening.

I do not think Satan is in a red suit, with a pitchfork tormenting souls. He is given respite until judgement day. Plus, Lucifer never rules in hell. He is bound with all the other fallen Angles.

Do you recall the madman that attacked Christ, and Jesus ordered the demons to tell him their name? After which, he allowed them to go into the swine? The demons asked if Christ had come before the appointed time to send them to where?

Christ stated knowone comes to the Father except through him. Why do we need the word made fleah then, if there is no hell for those who refuse G-d’s love? His only son?

Hell was created for the fallen Angles that had offspring with human femals. They were called the earth born, or Nephilim. Now, they are in spirit called demons looking for weak humans.

Nimrod, Simiris, and Tammuz make up the pagan religion, and false Trinity. Weeping for Tammuz is lent. The egg is what Simiris came down to earth in, and Tammuz loved rabbits.

To you James, why is Christ needed, and do you accept Jesus as the son of G-d the Father maker of Heaven, and earth? Do you believe Jesus died for human sin, and rose from the dead?

Prior to Yeshua’s death on the Cross and His 40 day purification period to when He ascended to the Father, (in which that anniversary was yesterday)nobody went to Heaven when they died.
The Book of Enoch explains the 4 Caverns that the souls of the dead stayed in with 1 of them being specifically for the righteous.

That is why when Yeshua raised Lazarus, from the dead that He didn’t call him back from Heaven.
It was only after Yeshua’s death and ascension that those that believe in Him go to Heaven when they Die. 2 Corinthians 5:8.

satan is in the bottomless pit. Read Revelation 9:11.

I give up with you.
Seriously, anyone that listens to what you have to say needs to give their head a shake.

Hi Olaf,
Well, you sure have an intricate theory on the beasts of Daniel, but I just can’t agree. We know the lion, bear and leopard as they are named by Daniel as Babylon, Medo-Persia and Greece. We can easily deduce that Rome was the 4th beast since it conquered the third beast.
Your theory is predicated on the use of modern symbols by various countries. This is a stretch, at best.
You couldn’t find a country that uses a lion so you took the wings of the lion and tied it to Nazi Germany. Why not the US? We use the bald eagle as our national bird and the logo of the US post office. And it is certainly one of the world’s MAJOR powers of this age.
Actually, England has used the lion as its national symbol in the past, but you tied it to the winged leopard instead. Guess a cat is still a cat, but you are grasping at straws here.
And I’m tired of people using the bear as the symbol of the soviet union, (now defunct). It only conjures up the image of Russian bears riding bicycles on the Ed Sullivan show in the 60’s. But it has never been their official logo.
As for the UN, that already encompasses almost every country on earth, so why include three other beasts? The G7/G8 is now the G20 and growing. They are not the heads of a kingdom, they are from all over the planet.

Read what Daniel tells the king about his statue:
Dan 2:38
And wheresoever the children of men dwell, the beasts of the field and the fowls of the heaven hath he given into thine hand, and hath made thee ruler over them all. Thou [art] this head of gold.
Dan 2:39
And after thee shall arise another kingdom inferior to thee, and another third kingdom of brass, which shall bear rule over all the earth.

It is clear that Babylon is the head of gold and Daniel then describes two more kingdoms that will replace Babylon as a world empire – in succession. These empires do not exist at the same time, they follow one another. You are saying he is talking about four modern empires all existing concurrently.
These are the kingdoms (beasts) of chapter 7. Daniel prophesying the future of the world, but only that part of it that controls His church, first the Jews, then the Christians. Once you understand the premise of the story, the rest is clear. There is an entire chapter in Daniel that describes the war between Alexander the Great and the Persian empire and then what happened to Alexander’s empire after he died and it was divvied up between his for generals (the 4 heads of the leopard). How is it that you missed all of this.
You just jumped right to the 21st century and tried to make modern events fit the prophecy using obscure symbology. It’s as if Daniel hasn’t shown us anything yet – he could be a total fake, same for the Book of Revelation.
God said He would prove he is God by foretelling future events. Daniel and Revelation are perfect proof that God exists. History proves His word is true, but you reject it all and say none of it has happened yet. It reminds me of the Jews in Jesus’ time who refused to see that He had fulfilled all the prophecy about His first coming. And the Jews still don’t get it, to this day! How is that possible? Can’t they read the Old Testament and a history book and put two and two together?
Can’t you see you are guilty of the same thing?
Don’t you want to avoid the mistake those Jews made?
All that said, I actually agree with your end game. When the messiah returns He will set up His government on earth which will supersede all current governments. Whether He will make one big country or keep all the current ones separate, I can’t say. But this is only half the job. Before the marriage of Jesus and His bride can take place, the true church (aka Philadelphia) will be revealed and all other churches/denominations etc. will be destroyed. This is what the Book of Revelation addresses using the symbology of the woman riding the beast and others. The Book of Revelation is a warning to Christians of what is going to happen soon and we are supposed to understand and be ready.
In any case, we can agree on what will happen, we just disagree on how the prophecy will unfold and what the images represent.
I’m not sure how you interpret the 4 beasts of Revelation, except perhaps that the 7th is the G7 and the 8th is the G8. But all of these are part of the UN, which you claim is a beast of Daniel so I’m confused. Is the word of God supposed to be that confusing?
Anyway, fill us in on the beasts of Revelation and we can take it from there.
Liking this discussion!
Bless.

Hi James,
I have been brought up with the same theories /Doctrines as I see that you are expounding.
What you are telling is not new to me, as I have been taught the same since I was a child, and that we are in the last days, and we could expect the Lord to appear at any moment. Now that I am well on my way to retirement in a couple of years, I have seen so many disillusioned people that have left the “Church” and become, in some cases, Atheists, and at best, agnostic in their views.
After some reprimand (as I see it) from our Heavenly Father, in correcting my wayward deeds, I have been gently led into the “Straight and Narrow”, and got myself involved with finding the TRUTH concerning our DESTINY, …First hand from God’s Word. For it says, Isa.42:9 “Behold, the former things are come to pass, and new things do I declare: BEFORE they spring forth I tell you of them.”
In my search I have come across many interesting things, and have found that we must realize that there are MANY similarities mentioned, and we MUST not get ourselves confused with two or MORE Prophecies that are very SIMILAR, yet predicting DIFFERENT happenings. I can quote to you several verses that state my views, but for the sake of keeping these Blogs as brief as possible, I will just touch on a few. As most people know, Jacob (Israel) had a son called Joseph. What many don’t know, is that Joseph, the Husband of Mary (Jesus’ Mother), ALSO had a father called Jacob.
Matt.1: 16. And Jacob begat Joseph the husband of Mary, of whom was born Jesus, who is called Christ.
John 4: 5. Then cometh he to a city of Samaria, which is called Sychar, near to the parcel of ground that Jacob gave to his son Joseph. (This is the Jacob/Israel son called Joseph)
Our problem with not seeing the SIGNS, or Fulfilment of prophecies, is in the fact that we do not look at the prophecies attentively, and add pre-conceived ideas, which are NOT mentioned in the details, JUST as in the time of John the Baptist, people mistook him to be the one (Elijah) spoken of in the last verses of Malachi. Another very big mistake we have is SUBSTITUTION of words that is making a mockery of God’s Logic! SUBSTITUTION is both TAKING away as well as ADDING something else to take its place! Rev.22: 18. For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall ADD unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book: 19. And if any man shall TAKE AWAY from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and [from] the things which are written in this book.
As you pointed out earlier that the LION, BEAR and LEOPARD are mentioned, I am yet to find the passage in Daniel, which makes this statement about a LEOPARD being Greece, or a BEAR being Medo-Persia! Please read Daniel Chapter 7 again, and you will see that there is mention of the FOUR kingdoms IN THE END of time. The big MISTAKE is linking Chapter 7 with the IMAGE of Chapter 2!
Chapter 7 goes into the DETAIL of the Make-up of the FEET (Which happen to have 10 toes) and also the ROCK of Jesus’ Everlasting Kingdom. It is this Iron/Clay kingdom which is depicted here, having the TRANSITION into a WORLD-WIDE kingdom, which will rule for only 1260days (Dan.7: 25. And he shall speak [great] words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until A TIME AND TIMES AND THE DIVIDING OF TIME. This correlates to Rev.12: 14. And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for A TIME, AND TIMES, AND HALF A TIME, from the FACE of the serpent. … (Serpent was cast out of heaven)
The 3 kingdoms (Lion/Bear/Leopard …Germanic/Russian[USSR]/United Kingdom) will remain for only a year and 3 months into the United Nations World-Wide Rule. Dan.7: 12. As concerning the rest of the beasts, they had their dominion taken away: yet their lives were prolonged for a season and time.
James, I do realize that the LION is used as a MASCOT for several countries, as Iraq and Egypt are one of the FIRST to use it, but you must look at ALL of the DETAILS to IDENTIFY what is being portrayed! Germany, as it also is in Holland (part of former Prussia), the LION is used extensively, and the ”ING bank” orange lion Logo is no exception. What we must not overlook is the DETAIL of the Description! GERMANY had 2 wings like an EAGLE, like that of the USA, but the USA did NOT have those “WINGS” [Air-force]removed, and was NOT divided in TWO like Korea, Jerusalem, Sudan, Etc. …The other DETAIL, was a MAN ‘s heart was GIVEN to it. …The name gerMANy is “Given” to it, whereas the NAME a German calls it is …“Deutschland” …NO “man” in the “Heart” of it.
Dan.7: 4. The first [was] like a lion, and had eagle’s wings: I beheld till the wings thereof were plucked, and it was lifted up from the earth, and made stand upon the feet as a man, and a man’s heart was given to it.
England as you pointed out, has three Leopards in its coat of arms. If you “Google” Leopard Coat of arms, you will find MANY countries with a leopard. The point I am trying to make, is that ALL of the DETAILS combined, will narrow our search for the clues that are RELEVANT in the description given to US for the END time. The UNITED KINGDOM is composed of FOUR countries, of which England is ONE. It has 4 “Wings”, or Air-Forces at its disposal at the Pre One-World Government. The R.A.F. the R.A.A.F. , the R.C.A.F. and the R.N.Z.A.F. – These are up to the present time un-hindered in their operation, unlike the Japanese and German Air Forces who were “plucked”.
Dan.7: 6. After this I beheld, and lo another, like a leopard, which had upon the back of it four wings of a fowl; the beast had also four heads; and DOMINION was given to it.
…- The “Dominion” is the” Commonwealth” of nations – (India, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, Fiji, etc.)… Could you define a more CORRECT analysis, other than the one given?
As you said that ROME or Roman Empire was the 4th Kingdom, I agree whole-heartedly, if you mean that …of the IMAGE of Daniel 2, BUT when we come to Chapter 7 we see the 3 kingdoms which combine or UNITE to oppose the KING of kings, we THEN need to look at the “Feet” of that Image, -the one of a MIXTURE of NATIONS, of IRON/CLAY. This FOURTH dreadful beast is that BEAST which RULES for 3.5 years, and is EXPANDED in Rev.13: 2. And the beast which I saw was like unto a LEOPARD, and his feet were as [the feet] of a BEAR, and his mouth as the mouth of a LION: and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority.
What you MISS, or …entirely NEGATE, is the fact that the vision of the RAM and Billy GOAT (in Chapter 8) concerns the END time, NOT the time of BEFORE Christ! (~300BC) from Alexander the Great.
Dan.8: 17. So he came near where I stood: and when he came, I was afraid, and fell upon my face: but he said unto me, UNDERSTAND, O son of man: for AT the TIME OF THE END [shall be] the vision.
Dan.8:23. And in the LATTER time of their kingdom, when the transgressors are come to the full, a king of fierce countenance, and understanding dark sentences, shall stand up. … (This is YET to take place!) For a little further on, in verse – 25. And through his policy also he shall cause craft to prosper in his hand; and he shall magnify [himself] in his heart, and by peace shall destroy many: he shall also stand up against the PINCE OF PRINCES; but he shall be broken without hand.
26. And the vision of the evening and the morning which was told [is] true: wherefore SHUT thou up the vision; for it [shall be] for many days.
Jesus later …~600years later, said in FUTURE TENSE, concerning the END time Mark 13: 14. But when ye shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing where it ought not, (let him that readeth UNDERSTAND,) then let them that be in Judaea flee to the mountains:
This ABOMINATION was to be FUTURE to that time! Not in the PAST, by 300years, as in Antiochus Epiphanies. (I probably spelt it wrong)
You made the statement “so I’m confused. Is the word of God supposed to be that confusing?”, well as I see it, we are SUPPOSED to be confused, for if we hold to the PRE-END TIME theories, we WILL remain CONFUSED.
You asked my view of Rev.4: 6. And before the throne [there was] a sea of glass like unto crystal: and in the midst of the throne, and round about the throne, [were] four beasts full of eyes before and behind. 8. And the four beasts had each of them six wings about [him]; and [they were] full of eyes within: and they rest not day and night, saying, Holy, holy, holy, Lord God Almighty, which was, and is, and is to come.
There are several references to these “powers” … in keeping to the meaning of “Beasts” as representing something else. I am not interested in speculating on the definition of these individuals in heaven (In the midst of the THRONE) and I feel it unnecessary to know till I am there, jus as it talks about Jesus’ ATTRIBUTES in Rev.5: 6. And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having SEVEN HORNS and SEVEN EYES, which are the seven SPIRITS of God sent forth into all the earth.
Must go, as I need to attend to something else; Regards, Olaf.

If some of you are still unsure as to which city in particular Babylon is referring too in the Book of Revelation, lets look at a few things together. First, one could easily replace the word Babylon with the phrase “The great city of confusion that lacks understanding”.
Now in doing that, would that be justifiable to do?

After the flood, Ham begat Cush, and Cush begat Nimrod, and Nimrod established the kingdom of Babel. In taking into account its variants, Nimrod is rendered in Hebrew as “נִמְרֹד”, (a proper masculine noun), transliterated as “Nimrowd”, (Strong’s 5248), and its primary definition is “rebellion”. Babylon, (or Babel), in Hebrew is “בָּבֶל”, (a proper locative noun), transliterated as “Babel”, (Strong’s 894), is defined as “confusion, (by mixing)”.

Now pay particular attention here, because many have not been able to figure this out, or fully understand this prophecy yet.
This, “confusion by mixing”, can be understood to encompass that of “language”, (as was the first instance in Genesis 11:1-7.) or “also” that of “people” as this would be the case within Revelation when the beast, (satan), ascends from the bottomless pit and infiltrates the world with his minions.
This “confusion of MIXING” is what is meant and described within Daniels interpretation of Nebuchadnezzar’s dream. Read Daniel chapter 2, and specifically that of verses 36 to 45 within this context, and it should become as plain as day. Verse 43 for those that don’t have their Bible in hand is “And whereas thou sawest iron mixed with miry clay, they shall mingle themselves with the seed of men: but they shall not cleave one to another, even as iron is not mixed with clay.”

Now in just having read Daniel 2:36-45., and if the Spirit is guiding you in truth, you will have also realized that verses 34 and 35 that describe the “Stone” that “was cut out without hands, which smote the image upon his feet [that were] of iron and clay, and broke them to pieces”, is the very same “stone” that John perceived as being the “millstone” in Revelation 18:21!

The “stone”, if in taking into account the fulness of the original Greek, is not a literal stone. But is rather, utilized symbolically the first time within Daniel 2:34., to refer to the “speed” of this city’s destruction as in being “one hour”. (Rev. 18:10…17….19.) And utilized the second time within verse 35 symbolically, as being representative to that of Yeshua our Lord.
The parallelism between Daniel 2 and these chapters above is self evident.)

Carrying on from above in respects to substituting “The great city of confusion that lacks understanding” for “Babylon”;
Nebuchadrezzar in Hebrew is “נְבוּכַדְנֶאצַּר”, transliterated as “Nĕbuwkadne’tstsar”, (Strong’s 5019) and it is defined as “may Nebo protect the crown”.
God denounces this Nebo within Isaiah 46:1. after telling the people again through Isaiah within the preceding chapter, that He is their God and not to worship another. Within chapter 45, God also makes reference to a people of a future time. In verse 16 He states, “They shall be ashamed, and also confounded, all of them: they shall go to confusion together [that are] makers of idols.”

Also, satan is the true king of confusion, deceit, and hates for people to personally know God through Yeshua. Consequently then, as stated within scripture, (Isaiah 14:4.) he is the true king of Babylon as well. (Verses 5 and 6 of Isaiah 14 there, are described in more detail above in Revelation 17 and 18. And the following verses of 7 through 17 describe what will occur “after” this takes place and Yeshua returns.
Therefore Babylon, (though at one time was an actual city), is expressed within the Tanakh, by its Hebraic definitions, “as describing any city that is confused and lacks the true understanding of the One Triune God, and is also mixed with satan and his seed, and has fallen totally into idolatry.” Which as it has many times in the past, provoked God to be angry and jealous.

During my years of study, I have become quite familiar with both the Greek and Hebrew text, and have also become very proficient in utilizing a Lexicon to retrieve various definitions. With that in mind, please allow for me to translate Chapter 17 & 18 within basically the same order as the original Koine Greek, yet utilizing some of the words “other definitions”, and substituting them as possibilities with the hopes that it will provide further clarity to the topic of “what city” Babylon is referring too within the book of Revelation.

Since these chapters are comprised of symbolism, I will also utilize some of the Greek words metamorphic meanings. Those of “idolatry” that have been expressed as being an abomination to God the Father from Genesis on. (And # 2 of the original Hebraic Ten Commandments.)

And since the beginning of 17:6 would already suggest that of martyrdom, I will utilize the primary definition of the Greek “μάρτυς” transliterated as “martys”, (Strong’s 3144), and substitute the word “Witnesses”, which is its literal meaning, and what the word has been translated as the majority of the time within the New Testament.
(A total of 29 times as “witness” in fact, within the KJV., as opposed to 3 times, (of which this instance would be 1), as “martyr (s)”, or the 2 times the word has been translated into “record”.)
This for some, will undoubtedly offer clarity as to time frame, and as well, greater specificity as to “who” the verse is actually referring too and as well, what city that it is occurring in. (Revelation 11:8.)

For those that may consider this following translation to be some form of blasphemy or heresy of sorts, may I remind you that the text that you read in your homes today, is also a translation. This would simply be another, based solely on the definitions of the original Greek, and constructed in today’s vernacular. And I would challenge any linguistic scholar to question its validity.
I might also add the following;
“Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.” 2 Timothy 2:15.

Before beginning, I ask for you to read Jeremiah 25:9-16., and keep in mind that Nebuchadrezzar, the King of Babylon, is a foreshadowing of this event. The beast however must stay in Jerusalem, and the 70 years are reduced to 7 years, based upon Daniel 9:27. The reason the beast must stay in the city will be explained and provided in detail at the end of this commentary, as will all correlating Scripture in respects to these 2 chapters.

Since we have been told that the woman is indeed a great city within 17:17., I will substitute the words, “city (‘s), or it (‘s)” in place of the word “her” where it is appropriate to do so. However I will leave it within the vision that John saw, and within some of the first instances of the angels explanation. You may also notice that I have substituted the word “world” for every instance that the word “earth” had been utilized, for this provides the reader with a more accurate understanding of the word within the “spiritual context” in which it represents at the time this is taking place.

REVELATION 17.

1 And there came one of the seven angels that had the seven vials, and spoke with me, saying to me, “Come with me. I will show to you the great whore that sits over many peoples:

2 With who the leaders of the nations of the world have prostituted themselves and have committed fornication and idolatry, and the inhabitants of the world have shed blood and become murders, being made drunk, intoxicated with the wine of the city’s defilement and idolatry.”

3 And he carried me away by the Spirit into a desolate uninhabited place, and I saw a woman sitting upon a scarlet coloured beast full of names of blasphemy having seven heads and ten horns.

4 And the woman was dressed in a garment of purple and scarlet, and adorned with gold and precious stones and pearls, holding a golden cup in her hand, [determining and controlling the destinies of men], full of things pertaining to idolatry, and the impure filthiness of her fornication.

5 And across her forehead was a name written, Mystery Babylon the Great Source and Mother of Harlots, Idolatress and Abominations of the world.

6 And I saw the woman intoxicated with the blood of the murdered Saints, and with the blood of the murdered Witnesses of Jesus: and when I saw her, I wondered exceedingly? (Note; the blood of the murdered Witnesses would refer to the Two Witnesses killed by the beast outside of the new Temple that will be built in Jerusalem. The text of Revelation 11:7,8. clearly states that they will lay there dead in the very same city that the Lord Yeshua was crucified in.)

7 And the angel said to me, “Why do you wonder? I will tell you the hidden mystery of the woman, and of the beast that carries her, which has the seven heads and ten horns.”

8 “The beast that you saw was and is not; and will come out of the abyss of the bottomless pit, and will lead by destroying with utter destruction and ruin: And those that live in the world will worship him, (whose names were not written in the scroll of life, (made separate), from the foundation of the universe), when they behold the beast who was, and is not, yet is.”
(Note; The last “they” in the above verse refers to those that admire, (and will worship) him. The “was, and is not, yet is” refers to that “he” was once “Holy” but is now NOT Holy, though in the eye’s of this people, he is.)
9 “And here is the mind that has capacity for spiritual truth and wisdom. The seven heads are the seven mountains, whereupon the city, the woman dwells, [whereas]” (Note; The Greek “ὅπου” transliterated as “hopou” (Strong’s 3699) has been more or less omitted, and incorporated somehow into the body of verse 9. Which linguistically doesn’t make sense. Therefore I placed it within brackets and will utilize the definition of “also” for that of “καί” rather than “and” for the beginning of the next verse, in not being a new sentence, but rather a continuing one.)
10 “also there are seven world leaders: five have died, and one still lives, and the other has not yet come. And when he does come, he is required to stay for only a short period of time.” (Note; This would refer to the beast that the eighth and last beast will make an image of.)

11 “And the beast that was and is not, even he is the eighth, and is from the seven, and leads into utter destruction and ruin.” (Note; this 8th. beast is Satan that rises up from the bottomless pit, Rev.9:11. Satan is the king and the one that controls the legions of what John refers to as locusts in Rev. 9:3-10. These locusts are also referenced within Joel chapter 2. Satan is also the one that kills God’s Two Witnesses, Rev.11:8.)

12 “And the ten horns that you saw are ten world leaders, who have not received their authority as leaders yet; but will receive that power and governing authority for only one hour with the beast.”

13 “These possess only one intention, and will give their residing power and governmental authority to the beast.”

14 “These will make and go to war with the Lamb, but the Lamb will be victorious and conquer them; for He is the sovereign Lord of lords, and the King of kings, and those that are with Him are called, and chosen, and faithful.”
(Note; this will occur during His conquering return, when He comes with all of His Saints, “the chosen and faithful Firstfruits”, (1 Thess.3:13.) and Angels, (Matthew 24:29-31.)
Double Note; the first 2 instances of “elect” in Matthew 24, (verses 22 and 24) and what is spoken about within that chapter, is “referring to all of the people that are being described within these 2 re-translated chapters!” The last instance of the word “elect”, (verse 31) is referring to the “wheat and tare” parable of Matthew 13:24-30. which happens at Yeshua’s return. (This wheat and tare parable is referred to also as the “one taken and one left”, which hasn’t got a thing to do with any rapture! God chooses, (eklektos, or “elect”) this group for punishment! Yeshua explains the sequence of the parable’s events clearly to His disciples, in Matthew 13:36.-43. The fleeing that is described within Matthew 24:16-20. is referenced in Rev. 12:6 and 14-17. and also in blue below in Rev. 18:4. )

15 And he said to me, “The waters that you saw, (where the whore dwells), are people, and the ignorant multitudes, and nations of various languages, not worshipping the true God.”

16 “And the ten horns that you saw upon the beast, these will detest and pursue with hatred, (which we should understand by now, (though having fallen again, like so many times within the past into Idolatry), who she represents), the city, and shall strip her of her treasures and make her desolate, laid bare and naked. And they will devour and consume her substance, both man and beasts, and burn the city with fire.”

17 (All confirmed here, when one takes into account “who” will be ruling the world from Jerusalem), “And that woman that you saw, is that great city, which holds possession of the minds, of the leaders of the world.”

Before continuing, notice that John didn’t ask the angel any questions regarding which city that this is? He understood now completely. He had already seen the vision of the Two Witnesses being killed, as well as the Saints and knew exactly which city it took place in. He understood not only from the explanation that was provided, but also from prophecy that was written within the Tanakh. There is no prophesy regarding the destruction of Rome. However there are numerous prophecies, serving duality of purpose, as to the destruction of Jerusalem due to its disobedient and idol following people.
The cycle is a repetitive theme that repeats itself over and over again within the Tanakh.

REVELATION 18

1 And after this I saw another angel descend from heaven, possessing great power; and the world was illuminated with spiritual enlightenment, imbued with saving knowledge in the presence of his glory, [to teach those that had ears to hear].

2 And he cried out mightily with a great voice, saying, “The great city of confusion that lacks understanding has fallen under judgment, and come under condemnation! It has become the habitation of demons, and the prison of every unclean spirit, and cage of every unclean and detested bird.

3 Because all nations and people have taken part by drinking the wine of the city’s fierce passion, of its fornication and idolatry, and the leaders of the world have committed idolatry and fornication with it, and the merchants of the world have been made rich from the power of its eager desires.”

4 And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, “Come! Escape out from the city my people, so that you are not partakers together of its sins! So you will not also receive of the city’s calamities and heavy afflictions!” (Note; as stated above,this ties in with Revelation 12, and Matthew 24, the “man child” consisting of the 144,000.)

5 “For the city’s sins have followed what has happened before, and has been fastened firmly together as if becoming one like the past, until heaven and God has brought it to mind and remembered its evil and iniquity!”

6 “[Therefore], deliver to that city its oath sworn debt, to render account and pay for its recompense, even as it has done to you. Even double! Deliver unto that city double according to its works! In the cup which it has filled to the brim, it will drink double!”
(Note; All of this sin and idolatry and worshipping Satan as if he were God, has been a total trespass against God the father. So laws like Exodus 22:9 apply for Him to dole out punishment too. Read Isaiah 40:2. and for those that have punishment the first sentence of Isaiah 61:7. and for those that make it out and overcome the last sentence. Also Jeremiah 16:18. & 17:18.

7 “As far as it has honoured itself and lived luxuriously, give to it great torment and mourning! For it says in its heart, I sit and dwell as a Queen, and I am not a widow and will see no sorrow.”

8 “Therefore because of this, the time has arrived, [and] its affliction will be heavy! They have come now, death and mourning and famine have come in one day, and the city will be utterly consumed by fire! For the Lord God is strong and mighty, that has pronounced the judgment, of guilty to it!”

9 “And the leaders of the world that have committed the fornication of idolatry and have lived luxuriously with the city, shall mourn and weep for the city, and beat their breast for grief over it as soon as they see the smoke of its burning!”

10 “They standing far away, will realize that their union together has been destroyed, and in fear of the city’s torment will say, “Woe, woe, that great city of confusion, that mighty city, for in one hour its judgment has come!”

11 “And the merchants of the world will weep as for one dead, and mourn over it because no one will purchase their goods for sale anymore.”

12 “The goods of the images made of gold, and of silver. And pearls, and the expensive delicate Egyptian linen, or purple, silk, and scarlet fabrics. Or all of the north African citrus wood, [which is prized for incense]. And every most precious vessel that is made out of wood, brass, iron and marble.”

13 “And cinnamon, incense, ointments and frankincense. And wine, olive oil, the finest wheat flour, and cattle, sheep and horses. And vehicles, slaves, and the souls of people.” (Note; Satan is ruling the world and everyone is digitally connected economically, with the mark of the beast. He will receive a tax from every product worldwide that is bought or sold, and will become the richest and most powerful being that has ever walked on the earth. the “merchants” are Satan’s demon leaders that rule in different nations.)
14 “And the Spring season that my soul has coveted and lusted in has departed from me, and all of my sumptuous style of living in splendid magnificence is gone from me. And though I could search, I will never find it again.”

15 “The merchants of these things that were made rich with materialistic abundance from the city, will stand far away, realizing that their union together has been destroyed, and in fear of the city’s torment they will weep and mourn.”

16 “And say, “Woe, woe, that great city that was dressed in fine linen, and purple and scarlet, and adorned with gold, precious stones and pearls!”

17 “For in one hour such a great abundance of wealth has been laid to waste, made desolate, and stripped of its treasures. And every ships Captain, and all of the people in the ships, and the seamen, and whoever makes gain by trading by sea, stayed far away and separated from the city, realizing that their union together has been destroyed.”

18 “And they cried out loud when they saw the smoke of it burning, saying, “What city is like, or resembles this great city?””

19 “And they threw dust on their heads, and cried out loud, weeping as for one dead, and mourn, saying, “Woe, woe, that great city by which we all were made rich, everyone that had ships in the sea, from the city’s abundance of costly merchandise! For in one hour the city has been laid to waste, made desolate, and stripped of its treasures!”

20 “Rejoice and be glad over the city O’ heaven, and you holy apostles and prophets! For God has decreed His judgments, and executed His vengeance, on the city and has vindicated you!”

21 “And a strong and mighty angel lifted up a stone, (like great millstone), and threw it into the sea, saying, “Like the speed and rush of this stone that I have thrown, that great city of confusion that lacks understanding, will be thrown down and shall never be found again!”

22 “And the sound and voice’s of harper’s, and musician’s, and of flute player’s, and of those that blow the shofar, will never be heard in the city again! And no craftsman of any discipline at whatsoever, will be ever be found in the city again! And the sound of a millstone will never be heard in the city again!”

23 “And the light of a lamp will not shine ever again in the city at all! And the voice of the Bridegroom and of the betrothed Bride will never be heard in the city again! For those merchants were as lords over the world, for with the poisoning of their drugs, and their occult sorcery, and their deceptions and seduction’s of idolatry, they led astray and deceived the multitudes of people!”

24 “And in the city was found the blood of the Prophets and of the Saints and all that were slaughtered and butchered in the world!”

Be Blessed in Yeshua our KING of kings and LORD of lords. Our Glorious Savior LORD.

Sad to say it took me 23 years to forgive the person that sexually molested my son as a small boy for several years. I can say now I have forgiven him, I pray for him that he gets himself right with God before the end. I would not wish my worst enemy to burn in hell for eternity. It literally about got the best of me for all these years …and the Lord literally ‘took that unforgiveness away”..

Neither did I wish for anyone to burn in hell Deb, nor do I now, though it is always pointed out to Christians or Jews who have suffered at the hands of especially the violent. I don’t know why. I just won’ take such a stand. It is my experience that the victims mostly do not wish hell on anyone but the few that do usually take awhile longer to come round but what is noticeable is that because people like me may not agree with the means of slamming the victims constantly with this scripture it is still bound to be done over and over again. it is usually what Christians do. Batter the victims in their own churches. Strangely it is what lots, not all, of Christians do. It is my experience that victims whether families or living victims have all they can do to just get through and forgiving comes eventually and it is often the Lord that brings it about for His love of the victims. I wonder why people assume all victims wish the perpetrators in hell? Mine came much earlier each time in about the first year but I learned the first time that praying for them to be convicted and saved and for myself and others to forgive them even when we did not feel like it always brought about forgiveness whether we ever saw the perpetrators again. Thank you Deb for responding.

Just a comment for Rob.
Only the saved ones will enter the Millenium.
I draw your attention to Zechariah chp 14. v 16, 17, 18,19.
I would deduce that these who are left, are not all saved as you use the term; but the rightous of all nations.

James,
Though you probably won’t receive this as you haven’t apparently in the past. Maybe others will.

In respects to the Time Frame of the Book of Revelation.

To start with, the title of the Book of Revelation itself contains a certain amount of specificity regarding that on its own.

The English word “revelation” is derived from the Greek, “ἀποκάλυψις”, transliterated “apokalypsis” (Strong’s 602) its definitions consist of, “Laying bare, making something naked. A disclosure of truth, or instruction concerning things before unknown. Used of events by which things or states or persons hitherto, (or until this time) have been withdrawn from view are made visible to all. A manifestation, or appearance.”
This would then mean, that all of this following information has been until now, “hidden and unknown”.

John states in Revelation 1:1. that this is, “The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must “shortly come to pass”; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:” KJV.

The term translated above as “shortly come to pass” can only be understood within its correct context, as to be referring to to the future, rather than having any historical significance whatsoever.

Furthermore, this is supported as well by what is stated in verse 3. “Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this “prophecy”, and keep those things which are written therein: “for the time is at hand”. KJV.

The English word “prophecy” is derived from the transliterated Greek, “prophēteia” (Strong’s 4394). The primary definition of prophecy is, “a discourse emanating from divine inspiration and declaring the purposes of God, whether by reproving and admonishing the wicked, or comforting the afflicted, or revealing things hidden; esp. by “foretelling future events”.”

The term translated into “for the time is at hand” would again indicate that all of the following information is describing events of the future. (And prophecy could not be considered prophecy, if the information itself is already known.)

In verse 19 Yeshua says to John, “Write the things which thou hast seen, and the things which are, and the things which shall be hereafter;” KJV.

Yeshua tells John to write the things which he has seen. This he evidently does by writing within the next verse Yeshua’s explanation as to what he had just seen regarding the vision of the seven stars and the seven golden candlesticks.

Yeshua then informs John to write “the things that are”, within the epistles to the Churches. The “shall be hereafter” would again indicate that this is a prophecy regarding future events.

The English word “hereafter” is derived from the copulation of the Greek words “ταῦτα μετά” or transliterated, “tauta meta” (Strong’s 5023 and 3326 respectively.) Combined in this manner they can simply be defined in English as “after”.

When the epistles to the Churches were completed, John was then caught up to heaven, and the voice that he heard said to him, “Come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter.” Rev 4:1. KJV.

Again with the inclusion of “hereafter”, this cannot be misconstrued as meaning anything other than regarding the future from when John experienced this vision, and the revelation from Yeshua, and the angels.

So above we have been provided with “revelation” and its specific definition.
“Shortly come to pass”, and “prophecy” and its specific definition.
“The time is at hand” (verse 3) and “The things that shall be hereafter” by Yeshua Himself in verse 1:19, and then “hereafter” again in 4:1.
That is six (6) instances in total, for the reader to understand the context of time frame

Therefore since there is nothing to indicate that anything of a historical significance will be provided within the following narrative, and that it is indeed a sacred prophecy provided by God to Yeshua to reveal what has previously been hidden to His followers, then why can’ you accept that?

I happen to believe though that the “Time is at Hand”, as we speak. And that the seal of Daniel 12:9 (10)* and of Revelation 10:4 has been opened.
And that the association between Revelation 1:3 and Revelation 20:10 are in synch with that seal been opened and the Lord is ready to return.

Praise and Glory to our LORD Yeshua the KING of kings and LORD of lords. Amen

But I am pretty sure that I can’t take any credit for much of it.
Yes, God the Father uses me and my particular attributes, but without the HOLY SPIRIT, I wouldn’t be able to write a thing that makes any sense.

But again thank you. I am glad that it was received.

Be Blessed,

Praise Yeshua the KING of kings and LORD of lords.
Our Holy Savior. Amen.

I know this is true because when someone speaks the truth of scripture it is always and only the Holy Spirit that speaks the truth, but, He does speak through His children and it is good sometimes to encourage one another alienated. God bless you in His guiding you as well, friend in Yeshuas’ Name.

The Ten commandments are a basic law for everyone. The law written on the first set of tablets( broken by Moses) was a higher law but rejected by the idolatrus Jews. This higher law was given to the Apostolic Church by Jesus in person. The sacrament, Bread and Wine represents the sacrifices under the Mosaic Law, fullfilled by Christ’s death on the cross. But this higher law only complements the lower law, Hence God can Judge all his children eqauly, for all major religions have these basic laws in one form or another.

First, let me say that the letters to the church did have a prophetic fulfillment known as the “Ages of the Churches” and we are currently in the era of the Laodicean (last) church era. This prophecy was fulfilled by Christianity, not Islam.
Rev 10 was fulfilled at the end of Daniel’s longest prophecy which ended in 1844 with the Millerites’ “Great Disappointment” when Jesus failed to return to cleanse the sanctuary. This is what the sweet in my mouth but bitter in my belly refers to.
I am awaiting the first seal of Revelation – the False Prophet, the next and last pope. Then there may be a gap until the rest of the seals are opened but then they will come swiftly. 2-1/2 years of tribulation followed by the terrible day of the lord (1 year). When we see the two witnesses, we will know the tribulation has begun.
How does this differ with your understanding of scripture?

James,
Like Alienated, I believe that there are NO church “ERAS.”
What I understand of his reply, is that the events following Revelation 4:1 are still FUTURE, as it is illogical to think that SARDIS was told Rev.3:2. Be watchful, and strengthen the things which remain, that are ready to die: for I have not found thy works perfect before God.
3. Remember therefore how thou hast received and heard, and hold fast, and repent. If therefore thou shalt not WATCH, I WILL COME ON THEE AS A THIEF, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee.
A Church that still has Philadelphian and Laodicean “Church ERAS” to follow, would not need to WATCH for the Lord’s return!
The 7 Churches are CONTEMPORARY Churches.

Mary Jean your comments re the falling stars is as good as my guess, as to the earth moving. The only “angels” that I know of are Saten and his host that fell with him to this earth when he lost the war in heaven. There are rightous angels that do G-ds will here upon the earth, at least seven in number. I don’t really think the stars in the sky represent angels of any kind, but are a example of the glory of lesser beings. G-D being the glory like the sun, the occupants of lower kingdoms being like the glory of the moon and stars in their brilliance or glory. See 1 Cor chp 15v 40 ,41, 42.

David Morris May 19, We may be saying the same thing since I wondered if the angels that fell were given dominions of say the stars, thus they ruled but in the war in the heavans they destroyed everything. I assumed that the first scripture of Genesis where it appears the earth was re-created or I think more accurately destroyed, because it is described first as being in chaos- destroyed in the original text therefore it had been something before. This is more of what I thought for these fallen angels were the watchers or angels of power that left their first estate were they not and will be judged for they should have known better.

Marie Jean
The angels who kept not their first estate. This Saten and his followers (one third of all the spirits ) who lost the war in heaven. That is they rebelled and were cast out to dwell on this earth, and tempt us who as mortals come to live here to prove ourselves to be worthy to return to the celestial realm. These spirits will always remain as spirits denied, because of their wickednes, the right to have a body. They cannot be redeemed and will live in hell, with some very wicked humans, for eternity. Some people call this “outer darkness” a kingdom with no glory, Satan was told in the garden of Eden”that dust thou shalt eat all the days of thy life” Because everything has eternal life in some form or another, Satan and his followers will live for eternity in Hell, eating (not literaly) dust. That is denied the fruit of the tree of eternal life. Refer to the new Jerusalem, the tree of life , and the living water that comes out from under the temple.
Revelation tells us that in the conferance before the foundations of the earth were laid every, yes every creature, shouted for joy. I take this to literaly be every creature from an aomeba to a dinosaur.
The earth is a closed system and every thing is dependant on everything else, everthing has a place in the grand scheme. God is perfect and his creation is perfect, there is no waste, no death, but every worthy thing has eternal life, and happiness in that sphere that G-D made for it.

Yes David this is a good description of what the scripture says in a nutshell except we must go on to the scriptures exposure of the fact that Satan is not yet in hell and as John in Rev2 says Pergamos in Turkey is his seat or dwelling place. There is also the fact of the release of the angels bound in the river Euphrates which many people like myself believe the release was what probably brought about the hordes of muslims that slaughtered the Cradle of Christianity. I remember 35 years ago questioning Halleys handbook and description of this horde as the horde and description of the locust of Joel which describes the different stages of locust that in essence appear to leap on and multiply even on death to come up again as a type of the Islamic hordes that have brought about much death and destruction in different forms similar to Nuchadnezzars head to the feet of the statue, all different stages of the same nations of the middle east.

But getting back to the angels David and the stars, it is also noticeable that the term Lucifer in Isaiah 14:12 does not exist but is an alteration if you will of the original text Helal Ben Sahar, the same term that John used in Rev 13 is also hilal ben sahaf or shachar in hebfew and if you will…son of the morning star or was he the angel whose charge was Venus? merely afterthoughts but???

Lucifer (heylel) means Crescent Star!
Son of the morning or crescent star.

“heylel” (aka Lucifer) mentioned in Isaiah 14:12, in Arabic is the word ‘hilal’, which MEANS “crescent [moon]” and “morning star”. The actual Hebrew wording is “helel ben-shachar” ~ ‘ben’ meaning “son” and ‘shachar’ meaning “dawn or sunrise” What is the symbol on the flag of Islam? Did you know one of the names of Islam’s god (Allah) is “Lord of the Dawn”?

If the angels bound in the river of the Euphrates are already loosened, and I believe or suspect they are loose through the middle east, for our warfare is not carnal but spiritual then there is more to all this than most eyes are willing to meet.

Satan has many names, but one aim. That is to destroy Gods plan for his people on this earth. In the time before the earth was framed and made, he was a seniour executive, known as the “Light Bearer” But he sought his own Glory became rebellious and was cast down onto the earth, when it was created, He came with one third of the total spirits created by God to live on this earth. He was with Adam in the Garden of Eden, tempted Eve and thus Adam fell. In Job chp 1 v 7, 6. Satan tells how he is walking to and fro in the earth. In Daniel chp 10 v 13 The angel explains to Daniel that the “Prince of the kingdom of Persia” (Satan) held up the procedure for 21 days. Satan is the arch deciever and is very powerfull, only Adam was strong enough to overcome him (Same reference).
I will say that a lot of the contributers to this “blog?” talk about a lot of things that make no sense to me, and to me, appears to be a lot of speculations with no bases in scripture. Even Blasphemy some times
Every one seems to be demonising the Muslims, The majority of Muslim people are God fearing, They have good modest dress sense, a little strange to western eyes, they are diligent in their prayers, and study their scriptures, Scriptures I may add given to them by God through their prophet.(Not many Christians can claim this sort of religous observance!) I believe God speaks to all his children and gives them knowledge according to their needs and understanding. Baptism is esential to enter into the Kingdom where God dwells. No mention of baptism in the Qouran, why ? Because they don’t need it. They will not enter into the highest heaven with Glory like the Sun, Only worthy Christians, people of the promise will enter this kingdom. Gentiles, through repentance, can enter if they repent and live the commandments. I am not saying that Mohamadism is a perfect religion or their Qouran is translated perfectly, tho they deny mistakes. The only problem are the maniacs who breath death and horror, and their misguided folowers.
Back to the Stars. I don’t know what Venus has to do with anything it is a planet that G_d in his wisdom has placed in the heavens. Its known as the morning star, one of Satan names, probably leading to this confusion.
In first Corinthians Paul discuses the degrees of Glory inhabited by people of varying worthyness. Those in the Lambs book of life will inherit the kingdom of glory like the sun. Those who led a perfect life but didn’t accept Christ live in the next one down, a kingdom of glory with the brilliance of the Moon. The wicked, I can’t judge them, will live in a kingdom, or kingdoms, with the glory similar to the brilliance of the stars as seen in our heavens. Paul is using these heavenly bodies to describe to us, with our finite minds, the blessings G-D will give to his children.
However, those who are unredeamable, the lost causes, described in Rev chp 21v 8. will go into a kingdom of NO Glory, or darkness. Satan at the End of the millenium, when he and his followers will be cast into that hell described as fire and brimstone. This I feel is figurative used to impress upon the wicked the awfull fate that awaits them. I say this because G-D dwells in the midst of everlasting burnings.Hence the example of the sun being his kingdom
Your comment on the cresent moon and the star on most muslim countries flag, is some one playing a trick on the followers of Mohamed in that these two kingdoms are the ones they will inhabit.

There are no provisions in Corinthians to allow unbelievers into any sort of “heaven.” or lower kingdom.

Muslims believe in a different god. so do Hindus, Buddists,Shintoists…but eternal life is only for those who accept YHVH as god, and none of them do….

All these religions have heard of Jesus and have rejected him for who he was….so they will be rejected….it does not matter how nice they seem to be…they are willingly self deceived…

but our task is not to reject them, but to witness the truth to them,,,because we will be held accountable for what we do with the truth..if we keep it hidden, then we will be punished, if we share it, then we will have our reward.

There are those, who have 30, 60, and hundred fold of fruit. And there will be those, who barely make it in.
I guess, beside Christ and us, this will make a difference in glory we will have. You may live a perfect life according to the standards of men but God’s standards are different.
Why does the verse say, that our righteous is as filthy rags if we can still can earn out way to Heaven with it?

The following nuclear bombs destroy everything you just said, rendering it 100% false and faithless.
——————————————————–
Romans 3:3 “What if some did not believe? Shall their unbelief remove the faith of God from the equation?”
———————————————————
Romans 11:32 “For God hath concluded us all in unbelief, that he might have mercy on all.”
———————————————————
Romans 3:22 “Even the righteousness of God by faith of Jesus Christ unto ALL AND all those who believe….for there IS NO DIFFERENCE.”
———————————————————-
The ace in the hole is God’s faith. Are you openly declaring the faith of God as desolate? Your faith produces “Most will be lost,” but the faith of God produces Romans 5:18, a pearl hidden in the field among thorns, thistles, weeds, and scorpions.
———————————————————-
Open your eyes, there are two in the field. Quit choosing the dragon.

L&D
“Our beloved brother Paul also wrote to you according to the wisdom given him, as he does in all his letters when he speaks in them of these matters. There are some things in them that are hard to understand, which the ignorant and unstable twist to their own destruction, as they do the other scriptures.” 2 Peter 3:15,16

Traditional Judaism teaches the first five commandments outline our duty to God and the last five commandments outline our duty to man.

Jesus outlines them all in two.

If Jesus says the whole law and the prophets hang on these two what is the argument or discussion since He is my Saviour as well I take it not as a question of Semantics or legality but one of love and obedience to these laws that all the scriptures of the Prophets hang on.

The Two Tablets: Duties to G-d and Duties to People

“I am the LORD your God.”
— Ex. 20:2a
“Thou shalt have no other gods before me.”
— Ex. 20:3
“Thou shalt not take the name of the LORD your God in vain”
— Ex. 20:7a
Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy”
— Ex. 20:8
“Honor thy father and thy mother”
— Ex. 20:12a

David Morris May 20.. I know I am late getting back on this but I have to say that saying what the teachings of Islam is does not mean they are demonized, but converse, they by their writings and actions demonize themselves and considering that the heavan of Muhammed is described by the pedophilic/pedantic killer Muhammed as containing 72 houris (virgins) and full of pubescent boys to service the lusts of the terrorist and suicide bombers and Muhammed himself who was known for his sexual deviations and problems he had because of it. His god and its’ deviant heavan they may choose and talk about but, it is not the God of Israel or our Creator at any level for Muhammeds foolish creation is full of his own deviations. Discussing where anyone goes who chooses to believe what they want is not mine to judge but I know He in whom I believe and that He is able to save to the uttermost ……………………………………………………………………..
King James Bible
Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them.

The fact is that many and the road is wide that choose not to come unto God or that choose to repent or confess their evil deeds.

Have you ever seen what happens when someone goes to a person that is neither repent or sorry for their violence or sins to another and tells them they are forgiven? They are laughed or scorned away as they would do to God… the heart condition of the victim is guided away and the heart condition of the perpetrators are often set in hardening of the heart as Pharoahs’ was. People choose their way whoever and wherever they are and there are many that are lost because they choose not the heart of God which is to love the Lord thy God with all thy heart and to love your neighbor as yourself.

James G comment re Ezekial and Gog and Magog.
I refer you to the Old Testament. Abraham and his family He had two sons. Ishmael and Issac, Ishmael and his mother Haggar were of the seed of Cain, thus denied the promise because Noah cursed Cainan (his grandson) telling that he and his descendants would be servants to the seed of Japeth and Shem. Hagar and Ishmael were cast out of Abrahams camp for dissension. A bad feeling has permeated their descendants down to the present day, culminating in our present political scenario today. The last great battle, almost at our doors, will be the U.N. (or whatever is its political setup in the future) and the Muslim people.
The Kings of the East will cross the Euphrates river, to help or hinder I don’t know. The O.T. and the N.T. all speak of the battle of Armagedon, and says all nations will come up to battle. It tells the curse on those in that army, flesh from their bones their eyes fall out etc. It also mentions those who did not come up to battle, and divides them into two groups good and bad. The good survive and enter into the millenium tho not necessarily Christian, and the wicked are destroyed end of story so far. 1000 years of peace and the final war between satan and his followers, both spiritual and physical. At the end of the final battle and the King of Kings is crowned. all are judged and receive that degree of glory they are comfortable with. A very hurried synopsis but the learned can fill in the details.

Hi David.
I agree with the scriptures you mentioned. It matches the scenario I laid out earlier on this blog.
I’m just not sure if Gog happens before or after Christs return. If Ezekiel is written in strict order, then it will happen after Jesus returns. I will have to wait and see on this one. All I’m sure of is that it will happen.

James G
Gog was a person, Ruebens son, long since dead. he was the King of
Magog. The name is used as an illustration. Ezekiel 38 v 39 prophesies Gog’s invasion of Israel (really the nations of the north) this is at the time of the second coming. Another battle called the battle of Gog and Magog, will occur at the end of the 1000 years(millenium) see Rev chp 20 v 7,8,9.

Hi David,
Rev.16:16. And he gathered them together into a place called in the Hebrew tongue Armageddon.
Could you enlighten us with the text in the Old Testament which mentioned that place? For you said:- “The O.T. and the N.T. all speak of the battle of Armagedon, and says all nations will come up to battle.”
Another question. Since WHEN is Cain and Cainan the SAME person?
As I understand it, EVERYBODY on earth is related to Shem, Ham and Japheth (and their Wives).
The means of overthrowing Babylon in Daniel’s time was the BLOCKING of the Euphrates River, where Darius the Median took the kingdom
went through the dried bed of Babylon’s water supply.
That is a “Shadow” of the Scenario pictured in Revelation concerning Modern Babylon.
Rev.16:12. And the sixth angel poured out his vial upon the great river Euphrates; and the water thereof was dried up, that the way of the kings of the east might be prepared.
Could China and India be the Kings of the EAST?

Cain and Cainaan.
These are two seperate people lived some hundreds of years apart.
Cain was Adams son, and under the influence of Satan, murdered his brother Able to get gain. Because of this he and his descendants were
cursed by God.
Cainaan was the son of Ham, Ham’s wife was a descendant of Cain, and so carried the curse of Cain into the present epoch. Cainaan was cursed by Noah, the curse being he and his descendants would be servants to his two brothers and their descendants. Genisis chp 9 and 10.
You will notice that Abraham and Sarah were concerned that Issac didn’t marry a Cainanite women. Sending a servant to find Rebecca. Also Rebbeca didn’t want Jacob to mary Cainanite women as did his Brother Esau.
Reference Mose’s Table of Nations.
Armageddon.
about 60 miles north of Jerusalem lies the ancient city of Megiddo, now known as Tell el-Mutesellim. Its in the north of central Palestine, it overlooks the great plain of Esdraelon an area of 20 by 40 miles. Megiddo is the old Hebrew form of Armageddon or Har-Megiddon it means the Hill of Battles. It is the valley of Megiddon mentioned in Zachariah chp 12 v 11. At the Second coming of our Lord,” all nations” shall be gathered ” against Jerusalem to battle” Zechariah chp 11 v 12, 13, 14. Revelation chp 16 v 14 to 21. This is the same battle described by Ezekiel chp 38, and 39, as the war with Gog and Magog.
I know of no revelation re the identity of the Kings of the East.

marie jean,
I couldn’t reply to your upper post so I will go to the bottom …
You said, “The first seven churches that John wrote to James were in Turkey and they were a warning to repent or their candlestick would be removed.”

This is what I have been trying to tell everyone for years – the Book of Revelation is all about the judgement of the end-time Christian churches. The letters to the churches are the prelude to the final judgement. The destruction of Babylon at the end of Revelation refers to non-biblical, pagan practices and traditions of the end time churches, led by the massive Catholic church with 1.3 billion Christians. Babylon is not Islam – it is US! Us Christians that is. God doesn’t give a crap about Islam. The wicked will be judged when Jesus returns. That will take care of radical Muslim killers etc. But Babylon and the woman (Catholic church) is a different story. He is cleaning up His bride before the wedding. And if we want to be the bride we have to know what Babylon is and get it out of our live. No more Christmas, no more Easter, no more Sunday worship and we must rest on Saturday, among many other things.
The big question is, do you believe what I just said or do you think everyone will automatically be saved by faith alone? Actually, they will, but they will suffer the last plagues. Oh well, it will only hurt for five months.
So you’re right, we have to get ready for the final judgement of the church. I hope everyone here will be prepared.
Bless.

I notice you say I say a lot of things I don’t. For someone who has a panic attack at the thought of Islam being judged by God and leaving but one sixth of them as so terrible, you have no qualms about wiping America and Christianity off the map without a tear you say oh well it is only for 5 months.

I thank the Lord nothing is as you say but as He says and that is enough of this for this is no discussion and there is so much junk that you write that verges on impossible to even want to respond that I must withdraw.

Thankyou alienated, sometimes we just have to tap in to see if anyone is home. I figured it but one has to try. I notice how kind and patient you are with everyone. My husband is like that and I am like a bull in a china shop. lol lol lol

To Marianne and James G
Babylon was a place it was founded by Nimrod. The area was the seat of later Kingdoms The name is used to denote spiritual wickeness , even Jerusalem was called Babylon by the Lord, and is generally accepted by its use in the N.T. as Rome.

I never said God would destroy ANY country, or all Christians either. All I’m saying that he will destroy all the false churches and replace them with the true church – Philadelphia. That’s it. Clean up the bride before the marriage. Would Jesus marry a pagan church that uses graven images and ignores the 4th commandment? I don’t think so, and therefore a lot of stuff in modern churches will have Old Testament be destroyed. That is a pretty simple idea and very biblical. Just ask ancient Israel.
Does anyone think this cleansing will not happen? You would rather see Islam cleansed instead. Kill them all and sort it out later. Lets kill the Buddhists too while we’re at it. I don’t think so. Not Islam, not America, not anyone. Just clean the bride. Plain and simple.
Who is with me on this?

That you need that answered is absolutely absurd! Yes! They slaughter and kill and will go on slaughtering and killing until the whole earth is under Islam. Do you live on another planet that you should say what you just said or do you just not read anything but what you come up with in your mind? I would indeed have the whole earth cleansed of evil! And this attitude towards the Lords’ children makes me sick! What a poor opinion you have of the Lord!

Wow, you really hate Muslims. Kill ‘em all, even the peaceful ones, women and children too. That’s kind of sick I would say. You know not every Muslim is an evil murderer. I have a few Muslim friends and I don’t want to see them killed by God or anyone else. As I said, all the wicked with be judged anyway, individually according to their deeds, so why take out every single Muslim?
You can’t build a case based on one verse and forget the rest. That is just lazy. Get back to me when you have answered my previous questions and then we can compare notes.

To all above. Be carefull how you Judge your fellow man. Remember the Inqiusition, The majority of Muslims are honest upright people, as are most religous people. there are wicked persons who seek to dominate and lead astray. G-D will judge all acording to the intents of their hearts and his judgement will be just. His words “Judge not lest ye be judged in a like maner. It is for you to forgive all men”

There is nothing that says all people are to forgive ALL men for this is impossible and saying things like this puts the weight of sin on the innocent and not the guilty. The thought is a liberalist counterpart to the Biblical Forgive if you will be forgiven. These thoughts are wrongly expressed to deceive and attack the innocent often David.

I never hear someone like you say all men must repent and seek forgiveness for their sins and crimes. ALWAYS I hear people who wish to crush the idea of punishment and correction attack victims and Christians with the statement that you must forgive all men. What a thought and so absurd. How long will it take for us to meet all men and say I forgive you and I know it is not even on the agenda because most people do forgive but, it is a noticeable attack of Satan through people who want to put the stress on victims or people who have nothing to do with the acts of sin of men. rather than on the sinner taking responsibility for seeking repentance and forgiveness.

To Marie Jean
I don’t know if your comment reflects the American penchant for litigation, but I dont think you have ever heard or seen a comment from me that says that there is no punishment for the wicked, or that I have, said that wickedness will not be punished. Nor have I implied that its alright to sin a little, lie a little, bye and bye, He will beat us with a few stripes, and all will be well. The Gospel thrust is repentance, to change our ways and strive for perfection. Yes there comes a time when patience and forebearance ceases to become a virtue, and redress may be saught, but the Lord is emphatic when he says vengance is mine.See Hebrews chp10 v 30 through to 38. He spoke to the apostles about forgivness, forgive 70 times 7. The Lord has said that every man will receive his reward, wether for good or evil. Your interpretation of “forgive all men” is stretching it a little, I suggest you study Jude. You sound like you have been badly hurt at some time? If this is so then you must solve your problem by prayer and fasting but it does no good to fester your mind over injustices, no matter how harshly you have been treated
Yes there are those who hide behind the forgivness mantra in order to salve their wickedness, or hope to justify their sins You must have faith in Christ that you may take upon you the Balm of Christ (Psalm 94).to heal all wounds. Finaly Thessalonians 2 chp1 v 4 through to 9.
Exercise faith and trust in He who rules the cosmos, yet not a sparrow falls or a hair fall from your head, that he is not aware of it.

David Morris, you said above on June 7 ‘ We are to forgive all men’ and I said this is not possible because a statement like yours is somewhat absurd in that it puts the onus upon us that we must do all these things with all people as if all things are relative and they are not. We are to forgive those who come into our path alone whether personally or internationally, etc, and we are to pray for them and as many as comes into our spere, but, to do what you say is not sensible and I find that such a statement proposed constantly in a threatening manner, and we often hear it, that it takes away from Gods’ purpose in working in our hearts,His ways, and the heart and mind of Christ.

Brother how can you say Philidelphia is the true church. Or is this not literal? The true Church will be the stone cut without hands striking the statue on its feet, and restored by the Angel flying in the midst of heaven.

The church at Philadelphia was the one Jesus was pleased with, therefore it represents the true church. God’s future church may be very similar to that church but I doubt it will be called Philadelphia. I just use the term as a reference to the future church of God.
That’s all.

David, I couldn’t locate your thread so I’m copying it here:
To Marianne and James G Babylon was a place it was founded by Nimrod. The area was the seat of later Kingdoms The name is used to denote spiritual wickeness , even Jerusalem was called Babylon by the Lord, and is generally accepted by its use in the N.T. as Rome.

I agree completely. It should be obvious to the most casual observer, yet many people deny the obvious and spend hours or even years looking for ways to re-interpret the texts to make it fit their theory. They turn a simple prophesy into a fantastical movie script. Oh wait, that’s already been done and the movies convinced millions that their script was biblically accurate.
Those darn False Prophets!

Many of Rome’s pagan practices started in Babylon, thus the terms can be used interchangeably. It was Rome (Constantine) that polluted the Christian church with its pagan ways. Babylon developed the mystery religion which became Baal worship, and we know from the Old Testament how much God hated those people who followed it. The woman in Revelation (apostate church) has “Mystery Babylon” on her forehead, which means her mind which means her belief system. In other words, Baal worship has entered the Christian church. Pretty serious I would say. God would not be happy about that. He would certainly want to do something about it before marrying such a church.
Why can’t people understand this simple principle? Why do they go off on a million tangents trying to figure out why Babylon, a destroyed city, would need to be destroyed again at the Second Coming? So Muslims live nearby nowadays, therefore they must be destroyed. Its real estate – location, location, location.
I don’t think so, but it sounds safer than having to worry about our own churches.

Oh well, if it gives them temporary comfort, I guess it will remain a popular theory until the Second Coming, when it will proven false.

The 2 Witnesses die in :- (Babylon/Confusion)
Rev.11:8. And their dead bodies [shall lie] in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.
The Great City (Babylon?) :- Sodom = Where lot escaped with his 2 Daughters.
Egypt = Where Israel escaped from oppression.
Where our Lord was Crucified (Golgotha – not Jerusalem) = Place of the SKULL – Skull and Cross bones – a symbol used in many church related organizations (of the Roman Church)

Gog and MaGog
Gog was a Ruebenite, King of Magog, he will invade Israel Ezec chp 38 v. 39. This prophecy points to a time when the heathen nations of the north will set themselves against the people of G-D and would be defeated, and led to recognise that Jehova is King, this of course is at the second coming(the battle of Armageddon. Another battle called the battle of Gog and Magog will occur at the end of the 1000 years described by John in Rev chp 20 v 7 and 9.This battle will be brought about by the wicked refusing to go up to Jerusalem to participate in the feast of the Tabernacles as they are commanded to do. This is the time of the final judgement, Dan chp12 v 2. And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.
Gog is a title meaning, prince or leader.
Hope this snippit helps.

Marianne,
By innocent Muslims I simply meant the vast majority that do not want to kill Jews and Christians but just want to live in peace. Of course they are unsaved. All non-Christians are unsaved. Innocent does not mean unsaved.

I am labouriously trying to keep up with messages flying to and fro here.
Back to Daniel. we seem to be comparing apples with pears here. Both are fruit, but look and taste different. The prophecy re various animals needs the spirit to interpret, it is somewhat obtuse. G-D in his wisdom, not wishing to condem those who are unskilled, but honest seekers of truth, messages are hidden, to be revealed after study and prayer. So I will not cloud the waters but accept what the more learned have to say.
I wish to comment on Nebuchadnezzar’s dream. the many layered Idol.
The Golden Head
The Silver chest
The Bronze loins
The iron legs
These above all represent various Kingdoms
The iron Legs are Rome with the partition of the two great churches, Roman Catholic, and Greek Orthodox.
The toes of Iron and Clay represent the eclesiastical world today, not any particular kingdom or organisation. This is Babylon
Iron and clay mixed has no structural strength, and the Lord will destroy what it represents with the stone hewed, or cut, without hands. cut without hands means exactly that. It is not a man made church(made by human hands) but a church restored by G-D himself. It will fill the earth.Rev 14. v, 6.
The destruction of this spiritual Babylon. see Ezekiel chp 13. Let us all tread carefully lest we be as the foxes in the desert.