OK, here's what I think. I believe in a "something" because I've seen it. I can't prove that to any of you, so I won't try. Neither would I suggest taking LSD in pursuit of this, because it's not a sure bet. (And in any case, folks are watching.) "God" as some sort of cosmic authority upholding the human concept of good and evil is ridiculous. The idea of "God" as a "first cause" isn't so bad, because it doesn't assume that "God" is intimately responsible for everthing that happens in a sometimes dangerous and unpleasant natural world. The idea of "God" as the "one mind" is more convincing to me. However, literal "life after death" seems a silly idea, a comforting story for religious followers, concocted because the concept of eternity is too difficult to explain.

Our Lady Of Lourdes isn't the most recent appearance of the Virgin Mary, remember the apparitions of the virgin Mary in Fátima in 1917, where she showed up in front of 3 shepherds and after a series of appearances, the Virgin told the shepherds to tell everybody to a certain place. About thirty THOUSAND people showed up and they all witnessed something known as "The Miracle of The Sun". One of the 3 shepherds, Lucía, survived (the other two shepherds died too young) and Lucía lived in a monastery and had 3 letters with revelations from the Virgin. The church (made a mistake from my point of view) failed to release this predictions when they were ment to be released 'cause they were scared the prophecy was mistaken but the first revelation was accurate (Something about the first world war being about to be over and the comming of WWII. The 2 prophecy announced the end of the second world war and the virgin spoke about the conversion of Russia to catholicism. Now that kind of stuff is cool and I think it's kind of a proof, with thirty thousand witnesses. Naw many people have tried to explain the miracle of the sun but the fact that it happened when the virgin announced it is, from my point of view, a miracle indeed.

If you're believers or not, I think thisone is a great thing to read. Here are some links.

Use your brain.If that miracle of the sun really did happen, it must have been seen not only by 30.000 credulous believers, but also by the whole world population (well, half of it, the other half was asleep).Not surprisingly, nothing extraordinary was noticed.The event didn't happen.The veneration of Mary as the Mother of God (just as the concept of the holy trinity) shows that Christianity, at least Catholicism, isn't a monotheistic religion at all.My advice: Read Richard Dawkins' "The God Delusion". It's a very entertaining book.

Atheism is a reaction against religion. It is a label that is only needed because the belief in god is the majority and is being pushed onto nonbelievers constantly. We wouldn't need the label in an ideal world where religion never existed. Yes, it is reactionary. We have a "need to deny God" simply because most people do believe in God, and to quote Hitchens "Religion Poisons Everything".

To add to what JBS wrote, take a look at the American Dollar! "In God We Trust" - Isn't that a joke!

Religious experiences do have something to do with brain chemistry, but that doesn't prove that religion is pure delusion. I'm mildly agnostic, so I think Atheism is an unprovable leap of non-faith. High-profile Atheists also tend to be smug spoilsports, a bit like Baptists, really. And some of them are intellectual cowards, actually afraid that they may lapse into some irrational belief.

Again, atheism doesn't have to prove that gods and godesses of whatever names (including the fashionable, vague, divine "something") don't exist.It is a philosophical axiom as old as the ancient Greeks that it is impossible to prove that something doesn't exist. Believers are never willing to accept this. But philosophy has never been their strongest point, has it?As for the predictions of Mary: Russia was converted to Catholicism, Orthodox Catholicism that is, roughly some 1000 years ago and it still is. Not much of a prediction. But probably it is meant that Russia would return to the Roman Church. Now that hasn't happened yet. Chances are slim, I think, that it ever will.

Well I can do exactly the same thing on Americans with the slavery... And the Spanish Inquisition was indeed performed by the church but it was an inniciative by the government, to keep non-catholic people in control, and Spain wasn't the only country using this kind of thing, it was kind of an European thing, which was later also used by Lutherans and the Engish Church. So I think the Inquisition can't be blamed on the church but on European people who used to get what they wanted.

heheh I like that.Well what do you know ?You can be funny when you want to,you old blue fart.If sex is one the basic instincts by which we recognise, fulfill,complete and realize ourselves and therefore enables insights into the mind and stimulates the parts of subconscious to reveal bla bla bla bla then we are in truth calling His name during the act-it is possible that we are confirming our genesis.

Last edited by okeedoe on Wed Nov 03, 2010 3:58 pm, edited 2 times in total.

No, this is unexcusable. The Spanish inquisition was unsurpassed at the time in their god-inspired persecution and the cruelty of execution. Trying to put the blame on all Europeans is a distortion of history and a perfect example of how catholics are unable to accept responsibility for the wrong doings of the Church and of those acting in its name. Look how the church shies away from it in the case of child abuse.Free your mind.No yelling.

You bring it down on yourself Cook, by writing silly entries about the miracles of Mary. In Western Europe even most catholics are embarrassed by the support of the Church for these questionable personal experiences. A more critical attitude to what the priests are telling you is needed I think. Read some books about the origins of Christianity. A lot of the principles of faith that you consider to be given by God are the result of down-to-earth, very human political bickering centuries after the death of Christ. Various elements of the live of Jesus have been derived from other religions, such as the stories about the birth of Jesus and the coming to life after death. Be prepared to be shaken.

Last edited by redrabid on Thu Nov 04, 2010 4:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.