(03-12-2015 06:21 PM)wallym Wrote: It's not that I think delusion is good for other people. I think delusion for other people is good for me.

Sure, if you wanna start a megachurch or a woo center to milk their delusion into profits.

(03-12-2015 06:21 PM)wallym Wrote: It's not that I think delusion is
That being said, I wouldn't mind to add a little delusion back into my life. Sort of like that guy in the Matrix who wants to get plugged back in.

For the love of God, now I'm grounding fucking movies. You are responsible for grounding your own references. Fuckers!

(03-12-2015 06:21 PM)wallym Wrote: I think generic humanist has a nice reward system without too much cost. Post a couple things on facebook, act outraged with friends, pat yourself on the back, and call it a day. That seems like it'd be nice.

Reward system? How about a conflict avoidance system. "I ain't got nothing against no Viet Cong; no Viet Cong never called me nigger."

There is only one really serious philosophical question, and that is suicide. -Camus

(03-12-2015 06:21 PM)wallym Wrote: It's not that I think delusion is good for other people. I think delusion for other people is good for me.

Sure, if you wanna start a megachurch or a woo center to milk their delusion into profits.

There's another thread where they're all talking about being kind to each other and making the world a better place.

Turns out, I live in the world, so I will benefit from their attempts to make it a better place. I like that. In fact, I'd like everyone in the world to be kind and make the world a better place. I'll keep doing my thing, and enjoy your hard work.

One of the things that was said in that thread is "All life matters." Which goes a little further than most. But if I were a crueler soul, I'd have posted "Proof?" And that would have been a good time.

I'm already an anti-theist but it doesn't mean I can make people not believe in myths. People are free to believe what they want and it is our right only to push back when the special pleeds section of the population tries to infringe upon rights and liberties or attempts to place the falsehoods of their beliefs side by side with the truth of reality.

(03-12-2015 06:04 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote: Sorry you have such a poor self-image.

By your theory, everyone who exhibits 'certain behaviors' and tendencies should be medicated also.

*Delusion is not good for me, but it is for everyone I know*

It's not that I think delusion is good for other people. I think delusion for other people is good for me.

That being said, I wouldn't mind to add a little delusion back into my life. Sort of like that guy in the Matrix who wants to get plugged back in. I think generic humanist has a nice reward system without too much cost. Post a couple things on facebook, act outraged with friends, pat yourself on the back, and call it a day. That seems like it'd be nice.

Good for you in what way? You keep expressing values without declaring anything that you mean by them. Like saying fear of hell will make people do things that are "right." Right to whose standard? Do you think it's good for you because it could go hand in hand with other people being poor, aiding you in a status of not being among that group?

The other elements of what you're saying though just aren't seeming to be sociologically or psychological true based on various attempts of recent data. Believing in God/heaven/hell/punishment of afterlife such as that doesn't make someone follow the rules or do "right" by their own or broad standards in comparison to folks who don't believe. Even poor people of believe vs non-believe in these concepts lean in this manner of adjustment as well.

So it's not been clear at all what it is you think is the benefit to your or anyone of poor religious people being manipulated. (It sounds as if you think if these people weren't deluded by religion they'd commit more crime or do harmful things, despite there not being a basis for that concept though.)

"Allow there to be a spectrum in all that you see" - Neil Degrasse Tyson

(03-12-2015 07:17 PM)ClydeLee Wrote: Good for you in what way? You keep expressing values without declaring anything that you mean by them. Like saying fear of hell will make people do things that are "right." Right to whose standard? Do you think it's good for you because it could go hand in hand with other people being poor, aiding you in a status of not being among that group?

The other elements of what you're saying though just aren't seeming to be sociologically or psychological true based on various attempts of recent data. Believing in God/heaven/hell/punishment of afterlife such as that doesn't make someone follow the rules or do "right" by their own or broad standards in comparison to folks who don't believe. Even poor people of believe vs non-believe in these concepts lean in this manner of adjustment as well.

So it's not been clear at all what it is you think is the benefit to your or anyone of poor religious people being manipulated. (It sounds as if you think if these people weren't deluded by religion they'd commit more crime or do harmful things, despite there not being a basis for that concept though.)

I think you're right in the fuzziness of a lot of the stuff I said, particularly about poor people and religion. Intuitively, it seems like it makes sense, but it's sloppy thinking.

I'm curious what you think would be the best way to get poor people to behave in a way that is in my best interest? And what would that behavior entail?

---

For regular people, I think the idea of being surrounded by people that follow the golden rule has pretty obvious benefits.

The idea in general is everybody behaves in manner that makes the world a wonderful place to live. I think we're in agreement on that being ideal, I'm just saying everybody does that except me.

I will concede that religion isn't the only way to get that. Like I said, humanists seem delightful. Whatever delusion it takes is fine with me. But anecdotally, I still think the good type of Christians are the best. Like Tim Tebow. Lots of Tim Tebows everywhere. (except for on my team. my team gets heathen Tom Brady)

(03-12-2015 10:08 AM)Toney Wrote: But we used to only have arrows and spears. Technology is equipping them better than it has in the past. How long will it take them before they can destroy a city because they will, when they can. The costs of global warming is trivial compared to the threat of religious extremism. I just saying that it's time to stop worrying about what mom will think when you tell her you're atheist, tell her you are and why she'll wrong about there being a god. The religious "moderate" gives cover for the "extremist". The moderate is all around you. We have to start changing their minds and quit brainwashing future generations. We're passing the point of no return while many of us watch the time pass by. Religion MUST be exterminated and its only trace left only in the minds of the insane.

While modern weaponry has allowed for devastating losses. I think if one looks back through history, one will discover that loss rates grew anyway as the population expanded. When people set out to kill, the numbers can be mortifying, in any age. For example, compare WWI with the Mongols.

(03-12-2015 09:04 AM)Toney Wrote: With all the shootings and wars, isn't it you duty as a human to move from a passive Atheist to a Anti-theist?

Davis Silverman said this: "Some … people call me a (jerk) because I challenge the absurd notion that religion deserves respect by default. But religion is wrong for demanding respect simply for being, and even more wrong for demanding never to be questioned. Indeed, it is my duty as an American, as an atheist, and as a nice person to do what I can to take religion down — not by force, not by law, but by truth.”

And that truth, he writes, is simple: “all religions are lies, and all believers are victims.”

I believe that the human race will never survive religion.

Sorry. No one can honestly say that all religion is a lie.

Violent extremists are not only religious. Remember like a month ago. Violent extremist are actually a very small, very confused minority. Pinning all extremist mass murders and terror acts in the religious in general is being deceitful.

Imagine that. Deceitful atheists. Must be rare, like extremist, murderous atheists. Nah, just kidding, liars are everywhere and not isolated to atheists, just like murderers evidently.

(03-12-2015 09:04 AM)Toney Wrote: With all the shootings and wars, isn't it you duty as a human to move from a passive Atheist to a Anti-theist?

Davis Silverman said this: "Some … people call me a (jerk) because I challenge the absurd notion that religion deserves respect by default. But religion is wrong for demanding respect simply for being, and even more wrong for demanding never to be questioned. Indeed, it is my duty as an American, as an atheist, and as a nice person to do what I can to take religion down — not by force, not by law, but by truth.”

And that truth, he writes, is simple: “all religions are lies, and all believers are victims.”

I believe that the human race will never survive religion.

Sorry. No one can honestly say that all religion is a lie.

Violent extremists are not only religious. Remember like a month ago. Violent extremist are actually a very small, very confused minority. Pinning all extremist mass murders and terror acts in the religious in general is being deceitful.

Imagine that. Deceitful atheists. Must be rare, like extremist, murderous atheists. Nah, just kidding, liars are everywhere and not isolated to atheists, just like murderers evidently.

All religion is a lie.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.

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