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Hello again

I was curious about the base station standing alone with the computer and no software running/communicating with it. So last night I shut down the system,

Message 1 of 18
, Oct 4, 2006

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I was curious about the base station standing alone with the
computer and no software running/communicating with it. So last night I
shut down the system, rebooted and left the ws 2308 hooked up and
alone, just it and the PC together on com 1... it was blanked out again
this morning when I got up. So, it's not a software issue. It's either
my com port or my ws 2308 that is screwed up. However, the comport
works just fine when using other hardware devices.

Will have to contact La Crosse to see if they have some sort of system
diagnostic check I can preform with hyperterminal or command promt. I
tried to connect with it on Hyperterminal but I get no hand shake or
any other activity on the prompt upon connect.

The issue seems more complex than a casual setting of some sort, so
please disregard my questions.

Thanks,
Mike

steve_03222

Mike, Just a couple quick thoughts; These units seem to be easily affected by the cable length and cable movement due to wind. So just wondering if you used

Message 2 of 18
, Oct 4, 2006

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Mike,
Just a couple quick thoughts;
These units seem to be easily affected by the cable length and cable
movement due to wind.

So just wondering if you used any extension cables or if it is
possible that cable movement is causing interferance.

I also wonder what the effect of not having batteries in the units
are. I run hard wired, but always keep fresh batteries to handle any
power outage or even a brief brown out or flucuation.

Steve

wuhu_software

Tradewind, There is no diagnostic mechanism to check the unit through the serial port. There is a tricky and unreliable serial protocol that I would not bother

Message 3 of 18
, Oct 4, 2006

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Tradewind,

There is no diagnostic mechanism to check the unit through the serial
port. There is a tricky and unreliable serial protocol that I would
not bother digging in to if I were you (nothing you can do with hyper-
terminal).

If the unit is displaying dashes, either the console is having
communications issues with the remote thermo unit or the remote
thermo unit cannot communicate with the sensors.

If they dashes are appearing randomly for all outdoor data, then it
is probably a problem with the thermo unit. If you are seeing bad
temperature and humidity readings, this is probably the case as those
sensors are contained in the remote thermo unit.

As suggested by Steve, you should try putting the batteries in the
remote thermo to see if that has an effect. I have never tried
running the remote thermo unit without them. It may draw power from
them when it needs to.

If the batteries do not solve the issue, and if the cabling is good
(modular connections are good, etc), it is probably a faulty thermo
unit.

A couple of other things you might try would be to completely
disconnect the unit from the PC. The console ground is not connected
to the PC ground. They are creating some type of virtual ground using
the handshake lines. If possible, plug the console's A/C adapter in
to the same power strip / outlet that the PC is plugged to.

You might try running the console in wireless mode to see if the
dashes are still displayed. This might clue you in to whether or not
it is a console to PC issue or whether the remote thermo unit is flat
out defective. When you switch between wired mode and wireless mode,
hold the + key on the console down until it beeps. It will then try
to determine the communication mode it should use.

If all else fails my guess is that you will probably have to send the
console and the thermo unit back to La Crosse since it is impossible
for us end users to debug these things. Any and all technical details
of the communications are kept secret (for whatever reason).

>
> I was curious about the base station standing alone with the
> computer and no software running/communicating with it. So last

night I

> shut down the system, rebooted and left the ws 2308 hooked up and
> alone, just it and the PC together on com 1... it was blanked out

again

> this morning when I got up. So, it's not a software issue. It's

either

> my com port or my ws 2308 that is screwed up. However, the comport
> works just fine when using other hardware devices.
>
> Will have to contact La Crosse to see if they have some sort of

system

> diagnostic check I can preform with hyperterminal or command promt.

I

> tried to connect with it on Hyperterminal but I get no hand shake

or

> any other activity on the prompt upon connect.
>
> The issue seems more complex than a casual setting of some sort, so
> please disregard my questions.
>
> Thanks,
> Mike
>

tradewinds63

Hello Steve and wuhu_software, Thank you for your replies. Just so happens, I just finished trying your recommendations before I read them. Less the pc and

Message 4 of 18
, Oct 4, 2006

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Hello Steve and wuhu_software,
Thank you for your replies.

Just so happens, I just finished trying your recommendations before
I read them. Less the pc and console power strip sharing, of which, I
will try out next, but, at present. You two hit the nail on the head.

It's now working; however, I dislike the necessary configuration as
it restricts the data intervals. I put batteries in the Thermo/Hygro
unit and unplugged the hard wire to the Thermo/Hygro at the console.
The console then switched to 433mhz wireless mode at synchronization.

The reason why I tried that configuration was because I decided to
swap the supplied 100ma power supply for an 800ma power supply and the
console took 4 times longer to crash. So, I figured there was a power
issue somewhere, somehow...

Now the com to PC no longer crashes/hangs the outdoor data at the
console. Unfortunately this decreases the data sending periods and
therefore, very possibly missing strong gust periods between data
transfer periods. I lean towards maximum data collection when ever
possible and I was expecting a minimum of 6 to 8 second readings or
quicker.

I live in the Sky valley, bottle necked in Gold Bar at the
Cascades gateway and it's a major weather gateway through the Cascade
Range into the eastern portion of the state, nestled right between two
large "foot hills" actually mountains themselves. We've been observing
the commencement of funnel cloud formations within the past couple
years and the weather about to come our way this time of year will be
very erratic, to say the least. Knocked over fencing is typical
inclusive of some roofing tear off every year. It's not uncommon to
find large sections of fencing 100' or more from its origin. I'd like
my wind measures in 1 second intervals;)

Anyhow, I'm going to check out the polarization theory next. I'd
like to increase the data rate to what I was expecting. If that doesn't
work, I'll have to contact La Crosse as they never mentioned within the
manual such a necessary configuration as I have now and had they... I
would have bought something else. I read the manual on-line before
buying the dang thing and you would think they would mention such a
necessary configuration with a PC.

BTW, my data is sent out as KWAGOLDB2 and CW6637. Looks nice and calm
out here now lets see what transpires beginning next month :)

Thanks,
Mike

tradewinds63

I tried the same power strip as the PC and it was a bust. It appears that I cannot use the hardwire to the thermo/hygro sensor if I want to connect to the PC.

Message 5 of 18
, Oct 4, 2006

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I tried the same power strip as the PC and it was a bust.
It appears that I cannot use the hardwire to the thermo/hygro sensor
if I want to connect to the PC. I can't test it with my other
computers because they don't support serial port connectors. I have
one old ancient beast that I had to resurrect from the dead out in
the garage, just to use this weather station. I had to clean (blow
can) off the dust from the garage, reformat the drive, load Xp from
scratch, etc. It's been a real pain and the noise from the cooling
fan is driving me up the wall! It's the pc from hell.

I've sent an e-mail to La Crosse about the situation with the
station, well see if it's the way it's suppose to be.... GRRRRRR.
Ancient connectors!

In the mean while, I'm using wuhu as a stand alone with wireless mode
on the console and it appears that only 48 out of 58 updates on wuhu
were not corrupted data. I got the following errors on the wuhu log
file: "An error occurred reading the storm alert from the console",
five times in a row. But, it's not crashing the console data just
delaying the updates further.
What's up with that? Is there anything that can be done to stop all
these dam errors aside from scrapping the project all together?

>
> Hello Steve and wuhu_software,
> Thank you for your replies.
>
> Just so happens, I just finished trying your recommendations

before

> I read them. Less the pc and console power strip sharing, of which,

I

> will try out next, but, at present. You two hit the nail on the

head.

>
> It's now working; however, I dislike the necessary configuration

as

> it restricts the data intervals. I put batteries in the

Thermo/Hygro

> unit and unplugged the hard wire to the Thermo/Hygro at the

console.

> The console then switched to 433mhz wireless mode at

synchronization.

>
> The reason why I tried that configuration was because I decided

to

> swap the supplied 100ma power supply for an 800ma power supply and

the

> console took 4 times longer to crash. So, I figured there was a

power

> issue somewhere, somehow...
>
> Now the com to PC no longer crashes/hangs the outdoor data at

the

> console. Unfortunately this decreases the data sending periods and
> therefore, very possibly missing strong gust periods between data
> transfer periods. I lean towards maximum data collection when ever
> possible and I was expecting a minimum of 6 to 8 second readings or
> quicker.
>
> I live in the Sky valley, bottle necked in Gold Bar at the
> Cascades gateway and it's a major weather gateway through the

Cascade

> Range into the eastern portion of the state, nestled right between

two

> large "foot hills" actually mountains themselves. We've been

observing

> the commencement of funnel cloud formations within the past couple
> years and the weather about to come our way this time of year will

be

> very erratic, to say the least. Knocked over fencing is typical
> inclusive of some roofing tear off every year. It's not uncommon to
> find large sections of fencing 100' or more from its origin. I'd

> would have bought something else. I read the manual on-line before
> buying the dang thing and you would think they would mention such a
> necessary configuration with a PC.
>
> BTW, my data is sent out as KWAGOLDB2 and CW6637. Looks nice and

>
> I tried the same power strip as the PC and it was a bust.
> It appears that I cannot use the hardwire to the thermo/hygro

sensor

> if I want to connect to the PC. I can't test it with my other
> computers because they don't support serial port connectors. I have
> one old ancient beast that I had to resurrect from the dead out in
> the garage, just to use this weather station. I had to clean (blow
> can) off the dust from the garage, reformat the drive, load Xp from
> scratch, etc. It's been a real pain and the noise from the cooling
> fan is driving me up the wall! It's the pc from hell.
>
> I've sent an e-mail to La Crosse about the situation with the
> station, well see if it's the way it's suppose to be.... GRRRRRR.
> Ancient connectors!
>
> In the mean while, I'm using wuhu as a stand alone with wireless

mode

> on the console and it appears that only 48 out of 58 updates on

wuhu

> were not corrupted data. I got the following errors on the wuhu log
> file: "An error occurred reading the storm alert from the console",
> five times in a row. But, it's not crashing the console data just
> delaying the updates further.
> What's up with that? Is there anything that can be done to stop all
> these dam errors aside from scrapping the project all together?
>
> --- In wuhu_software_group@yahoogroups.com, "tradewinds63"
> <tradewinds63@> wrote:
> >
> > Hello Steve and wuhu_software,
> > Thank you for your replies.
> >
> > Just so happens, I just finished trying your recommendations
> before
> > I read them. Less the pc and console power strip sharing, of

which,

> I
> > will try out next, but, at present. You two hit the nail on the
> head.
> >
> > It's now working; however, I dislike the necessary

configuration

> as
> > it restricts the data intervals. I put batteries in the
> Thermo/Hygro
> > unit and unplugged the hard wire to the Thermo/Hygro at the
> console.
> > The console then switched to 433mhz wireless mode at
> synchronization.
> >
> > The reason why I tried that configuration was because I

decided

> to
> > swap the supplied 100ma power supply for an 800ma power supply

and

> the
> > console took 4 times longer to crash. So, I figured there was a
> power
> > issue somewhere, somehow...
> >
> > Now the com to PC no longer crashes/hangs the outdoor data at
> the
> > console. Unfortunately this decreases the data sending periods

> > quicker.
> >
> > I live in the Sky valley, bottle necked in Gold Bar at the
> > Cascades gateway and it's a major weather gateway through the
> Cascade
> > Range into the eastern portion of the state, nestled right

> be
> > very erratic, to say the least. Knocked over fencing is typical
> > inclusive of some roofing tear off every year. It's not uncommon

to

> > find large sections of fencing 100' or more from its origin. I'd
> like
> > my wind measures in 1 second intervals;)
> >
> > Anyhow, I'm going to check out the polarization theory next.
> I'd
> > like to increase the data rate to what I was expecting. If that
> doesn't
> > work, I'll have to contact La Crosse as they never mentioned

Well, as per a serial to USB adapter, it s going to take a bit more than just that, isn t it; less you know of a USB control driver that would repeat back as a

Message 7 of 18
, Oct 5, 2006

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Well, as per a serial to USB adapter, it's going to take a bit more
than just that, isn't it; less you know of a USB control driver that
would repeat back as a com for WUHU , how would WUHU connect to USB?
In the link is about what's needed to connect a La Crosse serial to a
USB port and it comes with the appropriate software drivers. And, no,
unfortunatly I don't have any around the house;p

> and that they do not appear when running wireless.
>
> Do not worry too much about the failure. After a successful read of
> the data, it will be uploaded. You should not see any noticeable

gaps

> at Weather Underground or CWOP.
>
> It would be interesting to see how the console would work with a
> different PC. No serial to USB adapter available?
>
>
>
> --- In wuhu_software_group@yahoogroups.com, "tradewinds63"
> <tradewinds63@> wrote:
> >
> > I tried the same power strip as the PC and it was a bust.
> > It appears that I cannot use the hardwire to the thermo/hygro
> sensor
> > if I want to connect to the PC. I can't test it with my other
> > computers because they don't support serial port connectors. I

have

> > one old ancient beast that I had to resurrect from the dead out

in

> > the garage, just to use this weather station. I had to clean

(blow

> > can) off the dust from the garage, reformat the drive, load Xp

from

> > scratch, etc. It's been a real pain and the noise from the

cooling

> > fan is driving me up the wall! It's the pc from hell.
> >
> > I've sent an e-mail to La Crosse about the situation with the
> > station, well see if it's the way it's suppose to be.... GRRRRRR.
> > Ancient connectors!
> >
> > In the mean while, I'm using wuhu as a stand alone with wireless
> mode
> > on the console and it appears that only 48 out of 58 updates on
> wuhu
> > were not corrupted data. I got the following errors on the wuhu

log

> > file: "An error occurred reading the storm alert from the

console",

> > five times in a row. But, it's not crashing the console data just
> > delaying the updates further.
> > What's up with that? Is there anything that can be done to stop

all

> > these dam errors aside from scrapping the project all together?
> >
> > --- In wuhu_software_group@yahoogroups.com, "tradewinds63"
> > <tradewinds63@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Hello Steve and wuhu_software,
> > > Thank you for your replies.
> > >
> > > Just so happens, I just finished trying your recommendations
> > before
> > > I read them. Less the pc and console power strip sharing, of
> which,
> > I
> > > will try out next, but, at present. You two hit the nail on the
> > head.
> > >
> > > It's now working; however, I dislike the necessary
> configuration
> > as
> > > it restricts the data intervals. I put batteries in the
> > Thermo/Hygro
> > > unit and unplugged the hard wire to the Thermo/Hygro at the
> > console.
> > > The console then switched to 433mhz wireless mode at
> > synchronization.
> > >
> > > The reason why I tried that configuration was because I
> decided
> > to
> > > swap the supplied 100ma power supply for an 800ma power supply
> and
> > the
> > > console took 4 times longer to crash. So, I figured there was a
> > power
> > > issue somewhere, somehow...
> > >
> > > Now the com to PC no longer crashes/hangs the outdoor data

> > > transfer periods. I lean towards maximum data collection when
> ever
> > > possible and I was expecting a minimum of 6 to 8 second

readings

> or
> > > quicker.
> > >
> > > I live in the Sky valley, bottle necked in Gold Bar at the
> > > Cascades gateway and it's a major weather gateway through the
> > Cascade
> > > Range into the eastern portion of the state, nestled right
> between
> > two
> > > large "foot hills" actually mountains themselves. We've been
> > observing
> > > the commencement of funnel cloud formations within the past
> couple
> > > years and the weather about to come our way this time of year
> will
> > be
> > > very erratic, to say the least. Knocked over fencing is typical
> > > inclusive of some roofing tear off every year. It's not

uncommon

> to
> > > find large sections of fencing 100' or more from its origin.

> > I'd
> > > like to increase the data rate to what I was expecting. If that
> > doesn't
> > > work, I'll have to contact La Crosse as they never mentioned
> within
> > the
> > > manual such a necessary configuration as I have now and had
> they...
> > I
> > > would have bought something else. I read the manual on-line
> before
> > > buying the dang thing and you would think they would mention

Mike, Beware that all USB to serial adapters are not the same. We have tested a couple adapters in the group and found several that did not work. Some worked

Message 8 of 18
, Oct 5, 2006

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Mike,

Beware that all USB to serial adapters are not the same. We have tested a couple adapters in the group and found several that did not work. Some worked for 6-12 hours, then caused the machine to lock up or reboot.

You will want to find an adapter that is based on the Prolific chipset. It may be the chipset or the well written driver that allows the adapter to work with the console and Heavyweather, we are not sure.

--- In wuhu_software_group@yahoogroups.com, "tradewinds63" <tradewinds63@...> wrote:>> Well, as per a serial to USB adapter, it's going to take a bit more > than just that, isn't it; less you know of a USB control driver that > would repeat back as a com for WUHU , how would WUHU connect to USB?> In the link is about what's needed to connect a La Crosse serial to a > USB port and it comes with the appropriate software drivers. And, no, > unfortunatly I don't have any around the house;p> > http://www.ramelectronics.net/html/usb_serial.htm> > I would like to see full "Rapid fire" data streaming into the network > from the station. I'll see what La Crosse has to say and in the > meanwhile, I keep sending the gimp packets.> > Thanks,> Mike> > > > > --- In wuhu_software_group@yahoogroups.com, "wuhu_software" > wuhu_software@ wrote:> >> > > > I would write La Crosse and tell them about the dashes in the > display > > and that they do not appear when running wireless.> > > > Do not worry too much about the failure. After a successful read of > > the data, it will be uploaded. You should not see any noticeable > gaps > > at Weather Underground or CWOP.> > > > It would be interesting to see how the console would work with a > > different PC. No serial to USB adapter available?> > > > > > > > --- In wuhu_software_group@yahoogroups.com, "tradewinds63" > > <tradewinds63@> wrote:> > >> > > I tried the same power strip as the PC and it was a bust.> > > It appears that I cannot use the hardwire to the thermo/hygro > > sensor > > > if I want to connect to the PC. I can't test it with my other > > > computers because they don't support serial port connectors. I > have > > > one old ancient beast that I had to resurrect from the dead out > in > > > the garage, just to use this weather station. I had to clean > (blow > > > can) off the dust from the garage, reformat the drive, load Xp > from > > > scratch, etc. It's been a real pain and the noise from the > cooling > > > fan is driving me up the wall! It's the pc from hell.> > > > > > I've sent an e-mail to La Crosse about the situation with the > > > station, well see if it's the way it's suppose to be.... GRRRRRR. > > > Ancient connectors!> > > > > > In the mean while, I'm using wuhu as a stand alone with wireless > > mode > > > on the console and it appears that only 48 out of 58 updates on > > wuhu > > > were not corrupted data. I got the following errors on the wuhu > log > > > file: "An error occurred reading the storm alert from the > console", > > > five times in a row. But, it's not crashing the console data just > > > delaying the updates further.> > > What's up with that? Is there anything that can be done to stop > all > > > these dam errors aside from scrapping the project all together?> > > > > > --- In wuhu_software_group@yahoogroups.com, "tradewinds63" > > > <tradewinds63@> wrote:> > > >> > > > Hello Steve and wuhu_software,> > > > Thank you for your replies.> > > > > > > > Just so happens, I just finished trying your recommendations > > > before > > > > I read them. Less the pc and console power strip sharing, of > > which, > > > I > > > > will try out next, but, at present. You two hit the nail on the > > > head.> > > > > > > > It's now working; however, I dislike the necessary > > configuration > > > as > > > > it restricts the data intervals. I put batteries in the > > > Thermo/Hygro > > > > unit and unplugged the hard wire to the Thermo/Hygro at the > > > console. > > > > The console then switched to 433mhz wireless mode at > > > synchronization. > > > > > > > > The reason why I tried that configuration was because I > > decided > > > to > > > > swap the supplied 100ma power supply for an 800ma power supply > > and > > > the > > > > console took 4 times longer to crash. So, I figured there was a > > > power > > > > issue somewhere, somehow... > > > > > > > > Now the com to PC no longer crashes/hangs the outdoor data > at > > > the > > > > console. Unfortunately this decreases the data sending periods > > and > > > > therefore, very possibly missing strong gust periods between > data > > > > transfer periods. I lean towards maximum data collection when > > ever > > > > possible and I was expecting a minimum of 6 to 8 second > readings > > or > > > > quicker.> > > > > > > > I live in the Sky valley, bottle necked in Gold Bar at the > > > > Cascades gateway and it's a major weather gateway through the > > > Cascade > > > > Range into the eastern portion of the state, nestled right > > between > > > two > > > > large "foot hills" actually mountains themselves. We've been > > > observing > > > > the commencement of funnel cloud formations within the past > > couple > > > > years and the weather about to come our way this time of year > > will > > > be > > > > very erratic, to say the least. Knocked over fencing is typical > > > > inclusive of some roofing tear off every year. It's not > uncommon > > to > > > > find large sections of fencing 100' or more from its origin. > I'd > > > like > > > > my wind measures in 1 second intervals;) > > > > > > > > Anyhow, I'm going to check out the polarization theory > next. > > > I'd > > > > like to increase the data rate to what I was expecting. If that > > > doesn't > > > > work, I'll have to contact La Crosse as they never mentioned > > within > > > the > > > > manual such a necessary configuration as I have now and had > > they... > > > I > > > > would have bought something else. I read the manual on-line > > before > > > > buying the dang thing and you would think they would mention > such > > a > > > > necessary configuration with a PC.> > > > > > > > BTW, my data is sent out as KWAGOLDB2 and CW6637. Looks nice > and > > > calm > > > > out here now lets see what transpires beginning next month :)> > > > > > > > Thanks,> > > > Mike> > > >> > >> >>

tradewinds63

WUHU... At this point, I ll just wait till La Crosse gives a verdict pertaining to this model and the acceptable PC operation configurations. Could be that I

Message 9 of 18
, Oct 5, 2006

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WUHU...

At this point, I'll just wait till La Crosse gives a verdict
pertaining to this model and the acceptable PC operation
configurations.
Could be that I simply have a defect in the consoles com hub...
Unfortunately, La Crosse wasn't wise enough to write a Diagnostic
utility and make it available on their website.
Many technical hardware and software Corporations whine about the
cost of customer service but fail to grasp the concept of the WWW and
downloadable self reporting diagnostic utilities.

La Crosse should use an EPROM chipset with flash support in one unit.
That way, upgrades (from additional sensor sales) are merely a
download/purchase away for the consumer. I don't get why these
weather instrument companies insist on having more than one console
model/OS. Make one console and one console only, sell it for cheap
cheap cheap, then manufacture add-on sensors and the console owner
could build a weather station however they like. Aren't we suppose to
be thinking "Green" and about "recycling"? There's far more money to
be had if one is wise enough to see where its hidden.

Can't these folks see how the industry works? I've yet to see a smart
console or company that offers a PC weather OS.

YES WEATHER OS; they could simply write a PC program that uses
wireless or port communications to communicate with the sensors that
they manufacture from one old PC, they could simply give the software
away for free and empower the software user to build the ultimate
weather station from their available sensor products.

How many old computers are in the grave yard store or in a garage or
attic? Those computers are worthless with regard to modern all around
computing tasks, however, they possess more than enough power to run
a Linux based Weather OS. These weather station manufacturers have a
gold mine right under their noses and can't see it. Today's
mothballed computer offers such manufacturers the freedom to
concentrate merely on perfecting a sensor.

> > from the station. I'll see what La Crosse has to say and in the
> > meanwhile, I keep sending the gimp packets.
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Mike
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In wuhu_software_group@yahoogroups.com, "wuhu_software"
> > wuhu_software@ wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > I would write La Crosse and tell them about the dashes in the
> > display
> > > and that they do not appear when running wireless.
> > >
> > > Do not worry too much about the failure. After a successful

read of

> > > the data, it will be uploaded. You should not see any noticeable
> > gaps
> > > at Weather Underground or CWOP.
> > >
> > > It would be interesting to see how the console would work with a
> > > different PC. No serial to USB adapter available?
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In wuhu_software_group@yahoogroups.com, "tradewinds63"
> > > <tradewinds63@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > I tried the same power strip as the PC and it was a bust.
> > > > It appears that I cannot use the hardwire to the thermo/hygro
> > > sensor
> > > > if I want to connect to the PC. I can't test it with my other
> > > > computers because they don't support serial port connectors. I
> > have
> > > > one old ancient beast that I had to resurrect from the dead

out

> > in
> > > > the garage, just to use this weather station. I had to clean
> > (blow
> > > > can) off the dust from the garage, reformat the drive, load Xp
> > from
> > > > scratch, etc. It's been a real pain and the noise from the
> > cooling
> > > > fan is driving me up the wall! It's the pc from hell.
> > > >
> > > > I've sent an e-mail to La Crosse about the situation with the
> > > > station, well see if it's the way it's suppose to be....

Mike; I ve read the various posts regarding your problem with consistant wired communication between the thermo/hygro unit and the console. I run a WS-2310

Message 10 of 18
, Oct 7, 2006

0 Attachment

Mike;

I've read the various posts regarding your problem
with consistant wired communication between the
thermo/hygro unit and the console. I run a WS-2310
completely hard-wired with no batteries in the outside
unit but with batteries in the console for power
outage protection. The modular cabling/signaling
method used with these systems is not very robust when
dealing with EMI issues. The cabling is not unshielded
twisted pair/current loop as would be found with
Ethernet, nor is it shielded/Tx, Rx, Return as would
be found with serial communications such as RS-232. I
would inspect the cable route used between the outside
unit and the console for possible sources of EMI as
this could be corrupting the data stream. It is my
understanding that the dashes on the console indicate
that the units are no longer synchonized. Hope this
helps you out.

> I tried the same power strip as the PC and it was a
> bust.
> It appears that I cannot use the hardwire to the
> thermo/hygro sensor
> if I want to connect to the PC. I can't test it with
> my other
> computers because they don't support serial port
> connectors. I have
> one old ancient beast that I had to resurrect from
> the dead out in
> the garage, just to use this weather station. I had
> to clean (blow
> can) off the dust from the garage, reformat the
> drive, load Xp from
> scratch, etc. It's been a real pain and the noise
> from the cooling
> fan is driving me up the wall! It's the pc from
> hell.
>
> I've sent an e-mail to La Crosse about the situation
> with the
> station, well see if it's the way it's suppose to
> be.... GRRRRRR.
> Ancient connectors!
>
> In the mean while, I'm using wuhu as a stand alone
> with wireless mode
> on the console and it appears that only 48 out of 58
> updates on wuhu
> were not corrupted data. I got the following errors
> on the wuhu log
> file: "An error occurred reading the storm alert
> from the console",
> five times in a row. But, it's not crashing the
> console data just
> delaying the updates further.
> What's up with that? Is there anything that can be
> done to stop all
> these dam errors aside from scrapping the project
> all together?
>
> --- In wuhu_software_group@yahoogroups.com,
> "tradewinds63"
> <tradewinds63@...> wrote:
> >
> > Hello Steve and wuhu_software,
> > Thank you for your replies.
> >
> > Just so happens, I just finished trying your
> recommendations
> before
> > I read them. Less the pc and console power strip
> sharing, of which,
> I
> > will try out next, but, at present. You two hit
> the nail on the
> head.
> >
> > It's now working; however, I dislike the
> necessary configuration
> as
> > it restricts the data intervals. I put batteries
> in the
> Thermo/Hygro
> > unit and unplugged the hard wire to the
> Thermo/Hygro at the
> console.
> > The console then switched to 433mhz wireless mode
> at
> synchronization.
> >
> > The reason why I tried that configuration was
> because I decided
> to
> > swap the supplied 100ma power supply for an 800ma
> power supply and
> the
> > console took 4 times longer to crash. So, I
> figured there was a
> power
> > issue somewhere, somehow...
> >
> > Now the com to PC no longer crashes/hangs the
> outdoor data at
> the
> > console. Unfortunately this decreases the data
> sending periods and
> > therefore, very possibly missing strong gust
> periods between data
> > transfer periods. I lean towards maximum data
> collection when ever
> > possible and I was expecting a minimum of 6 to 8
> second readings or
> > quicker.
> >
> > I live in the Sky valley, bottle necked in
> Gold Bar at the
> > Cascades gateway and it's a major weather gateway
> through the
> Cascade
> > Range into the eastern portion of the state,
> nestled right between
> two
> > large "foot hills" actually mountains themselves.
> We've been
> observing
> > the commencement of funnel cloud formations within
> the past couple
> > years and the weather about to come our way this
> time of year will
> be
> > very erratic, to say the least. Knocked over
> fencing is typical
> > inclusive of some roofing tear off every year.
> It's not uncommon to
> > find large sections of fencing 100' or more from
> its origin. I'd
> like
> > my wind measures in 1 second intervals;)
> >
> > Anyhow, I'm going to check out the
> polarization theory next.
> I'd
> > like to increase the data rate to what I was
> expecting. If that
> doesn't
> > work, I'll have to contact La Crosse as they never
> mentioned within
> the
> > manual such a necessary configuration as I have
> now and had they...
> I
> > would have bought something else. I read the
> manual on-line before
> > buying the dang thing and you would think they
> would mention such a
> > necessary configuration with a PC.
> >
> > BTW, my data is sent out as KWAGOLDB2 and CW6637.
> Looks nice and
> calm
> > out here now lets see what transpires beginning
> next month :)
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Mike
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>

__________________________________________________
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tradewinds63

La Crosse support writes the following: Mike, This unit will work hardwired and to the computer. After connecting the hardwire cord, please Press and Hold the

Message 11 of 18
, Oct 7, 2006

0 Attachment

La Crosse support writes the following:
Mike,

This unit will work hardwired and to the computer. After connecting
the hardwire cord, please Press and Hold the PRESSURE and WIND buttons
at the same time for 10 seconds to reset the base. Waith 30 minutes
and everything should be reading.

Is your wall outlet 2 prong or 3 prong?

You can purchase a 9 pin serial to USB adapter at most department or
computer stores. Or go to www.greatbigoutlet.com and purchase the BAFO
USB adapter they stock which has been tested and confirmed to work
with our stations. It is important that your USB adapter be Windows
Certified as using non-certified adapters can lead to stability problems.

After installing the adapter check in device manager to confirm that
Windows has recognized the adapter. If it does not show under ports
(com & lpt) double-check that the driver has been installed. If the
adapter has been recognized, right click on it, choose properties >
port settings > advanced. Then be sure to select a com port number
between one and four. After configuring the adapter, connect the
weather station and open the Heavy Weather software. Data should begin
to download within a minute or two.

>
> Mike;
>
> I've read the various posts regarding your problem
> with consistant wired communication between the
> thermo/hygro unit and the console. I run a WS-2310
> completely hard-wired with no batteries in the outside
> unit but with batteries in the console for power
> outage protection. The modular cabling/signaling
> method used with these systems is not very robust when
> dealing with EMI issues. The cabling is not unshielded
> twisted pair/current loop as would be found with
> Ethernet, nor is it shielded/Tx, Rx, Return as would
> be found with serial communications such as RS-232. I
> would inspect the cable route used between the outside
> unit and the console for possible sources of EMI as
> this could be corrupting the data stream. It is my
> understanding that the dashes on the console indicate
> that the units are no longer synchonized. Hope this
> helps you out.
>
> Jim
>
> --- tradewinds63 <tradewinds63@...> wrote:
>
> > I tried the same power strip as the PC and it was a
> > bust.
> > It appears that I cannot use the hardwire to the
> > thermo/hygro sensor
> > if I want to connect to the PC. I can't test it with
> > my other
> > computers because they don't support serial port
> > connectors. I have
> > one old ancient beast that I had to resurrect from
> > the dead out in
> > the garage, just to use this weather station. I had
> > to clean (blow
> > can) off the dust from the garage, reformat the
> > drive, load Xp from
> > scratch, etc. It's been a real pain and the noise
> > from the cooling
> > fan is driving me up the wall! It's the pc from
> > hell.
> >
> > I've sent an e-mail to La Crosse about the situation
> > with the
> > station, well see if it's the way it's suppose to
> > be.... GRRRRRR.
> > Ancient connectors!
> >
> > In the mean while, I'm using wuhu as a stand alone
> > with wireless mode
> > on the console and it appears that only 48 out of 58
> > updates on wuhu
> > were not corrupted data. I got the following errors
> > on the wuhu log
> > file: "An error occurred reading the storm alert
> > from the console",
> > five times in a row. But, it's not crashing the
> > console data just
> > delaying the updates further.
> > What's up with that? Is there anything that can be
> > done to stop all
> > these dam errors aside from scrapping the project
> > all together?
> >
> > --- In wuhu_software_group@yahoogroups.com,
> > "tradewinds63"
> > <tradewinds63@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Hello Steve and wuhu_software,
> > > Thank you for your replies.
> > >
> > > Just so happens, I just finished trying your
> > recommendations
> > before
> > > I read them. Less the pc and console power strip
> > sharing, of which,
> > I
> > > will try out next, but, at present. You two hit
> > the nail on the
> > head.
> > >
> > > It's now working; however, I dislike the
> > necessary configuration
> > as
> > > it restricts the data intervals. I put batteries
> > in the
> > Thermo/Hygro
> > > unit and unplugged the hard wire to the
> > Thermo/Hygro at the
> > console.
> > > The console then switched to 433mhz wireless mode
> > at
> > synchronization.
> > >
> > > The reason why I tried that configuration was
> > because I decided
> > to
> > > swap the supplied 100ma power supply for an 800ma
> > power supply and
> > the
> > > console took 4 times longer to crash. So, I
> > figured there was a
> > power
> > > issue somewhere, somehow...
> > >
> > > Now the com to PC no longer crashes/hangs the
> > outdoor data at
> > the
> > > console. Unfortunately this decreases the data
> > sending periods and
> > > therefore, very possibly missing strong gust
> > periods between data
> > > transfer periods. I lean towards maximum data
> > collection when ever
> > > possible and I was expecting a minimum of 6 to 8
> > second readings or
> > > quicker.
> > >
> > > I live in the Sky valley, bottle necked in
> > Gold Bar at the
> > > Cascades gateway and it's a major weather gateway
> > through the
> > Cascade
> > > Range into the eastern portion of the state,
> > nestled right between
> > two
> > > large "foot hills" actually mountains themselves.
> > We've been
> > observing
> > > the commencement of funnel cloud formations within
> > the past couple
> > > years and the weather about to come our way this
> > time of year will
> > be
> > > very erratic, to say the least. Knocked over
> > fencing is typical
> > > inclusive of some roofing tear off every year.
> > It's not uncommon to
> > > find large sections of fencing 100' or more from
> > its origin. I'd
> > like
> > > my wind measures in 1 second intervals;)
> > >
> > > Anyhow, I'm going to check out the
> > polarization theory next.
> > I'd
> > > like to increase the data rate to what I was
> > expecting. If that
> > doesn't
> > > work, I'll have to contact La Crosse as they never
> > mentioned within
> > the
> > > manual such a necessary configuration as I have
> > now and had they...
> > I
> > > would have bought something else. I read the
> > manual on-line before
> > > buying the dang thing and you would think they
> > would mention such a
> > > necessary configuration with a PC.
> > >
> > > BTW, my data is sent out as KWAGOLDB2 and CW6637.
> > Looks nice and
> > calm
> > > out here now lets see what transpires beginning
> > next month :)
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > > Mike
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> http://mail.yahoo.com
>

tradewinds63

Negative, The La Crosse e-mail recommendations for the serial connection was a bust, merely 2 good packets were sent (after 20 minutes) and the rest were

Message 12 of 18
, Oct 7, 2006

0 Attachment

Negative,

The La Crosse e-mail recommendations for the serial connection was
a bust, merely 2 good packets were sent (after 20 minutes) and the
rest were garbage and after getting the 2 good packets the console
outdoor data began to freeze up again.
Without knowing the appropriate com configuration Parity, stop bits,
fifo compatibility, etc, and not knowing the necessary BIOS support, I
see no reason in attempting to hardwire to the Thermo/hygro unit, not
unless - I want to spin my wheels the rest of the week.

La Crosse dropped the ball with regard to providing these important
details.

I'd like to know what the 21 and 23 or 24 mean shortly after
booting up the console, each appears to be a differing mode and
contingent upon the connections to the console. But I see no reference
in the manual of these console boot codes. It's another mystery,
compliments of La Crosse and probably an important detail.

I've never in 24 years of computer use encountered such a problem
installing a device, from plotters, multi-meters, oscilloscopes,
spectrometers, and a wide range of communication devices, etc. Of all
the devices, this has been the most difficult and meager with regard
to technical information, a real dead horse.

Enough said, I'll simply use the radio transmission mode with the
computer connection and give up on a hardwire connection.

>
> La Crosse support writes the following:
> Mike,
>
> This unit will work hardwired and to the computer. After connecting
> the hardwire cord, please Press and Hold the PRESSURE and WIND buttons
> at the same time for 10 seconds to reset the base. Waith 30 minutes
> and everything should be reading.
>
> Is your wall outlet 2 prong or 3 prong?
>
> You can purchase a 9 pin serial to USB adapter at most department or
> computer stores. Or go to www.greatbigoutlet.com and purchase the BAFO
> USB adapter they stock which has been tested and confirmed to work
> with our stations. It is important that your USB adapter be Windows
> Certified as using non-certified adapters can lead to stability

Mike, Are you using the originally supplied cable marked for use with the console or did you make your own? I have my sensor about 40 feet away from my console

Message 13 of 18
, Oct 7, 2006

0 Attachment

Message

Mike,

Are you using the originally supplied cable marked for use
with the console or did you make your own? I have my sensor about 40 feet away
from my console (a little longer than the 32 feet supplied - plus I needed to
run it through the wall so not having the connector on it makes it easier). Now
I have run telephone cable all through my house and for work for many years -
and did the same here. I use category 5 cable (to allow for multiple phone lines
typically) and made the standard connectors for telephone. When I
plugged in the cable and performed the reset, I was getting no data (just
dashes). So I started doing some investigating. The first thing I did was check
for voltages. Well I found them, but not on the pins they were supposed to be
on. So, wondering what was going on I took a close look at the supplied cable
and found that it is basically a cross-over cable where each of the two standard
pairs were swapped on the opposite end of the cable. Once I corrected one
connector and performed the reset, voila I was getting data. It sure is nice to
see the data come in every 6 seconds (although faster would be even better).
This is likely useful for anyone wanting to extend the cable with custom made
cables. They say in the book that if you want to extend the cables, to add on to
the existing cable using a coupler. Well that will work fine since the
cross-over is already performed in the original cable. This is a lot like a null
modem adapter and is likely what it is doing.

The La Crosse e-mail recommendations for the serial
connection wasa bust, merely 2 good packets were sent (after 20 minutes)
and therest were garbage and after getting the 2 good packets the
consoleoutdoor data began to freeze up again.Without knowing the
appropriate com configuration Parity, stop bits,fifo compatibility, etc,
and not knowing the necessary BIOS support, Isee no reason in attempting
to hardwire to the Thermo/hygro unit, notunless - I want to spin my wheels
the rest of the week.

La Crosse dropped the ball with regard to
providing these importantdetails.

I'd like to know what the 21 and
23 or 24 mean shortly afterbooting up the console, each appears to be a
differing mode andcontingent upon the connections to the console. But I
see no referencein the manual of these console boot codes. It's another
mystery,compliments of La Crosse and probably an important
detail.

I've never in 24 years of computer use encountered such a
probleminstalling a device, from plotters, multi-meters,
oscilloscopes,spectrometers, and a wide range of communication devices,
etc. Of allthe devices, this has been the most difficult and meager with
regardto technical information, a real dead horse.

Enough said,
I'll simply use the radio transmission mode with thecomputer connection
and give up on a hardwire connection.

David; The cables supplied with the WS 23xx units are standard 4 conductor telephone patch cables which, by design, have a cross-over built into them (pin 1 to

Message 14 of 18
, Oct 8, 2006

0 Attachment

David;

The cables supplied with the WS 23xx units are
standard 4 conductor telephone patch cables which, by
design, have a cross-over built into them (pin 1 to 4,
2 to 3, 3 to 2 and 4 to 1). When you add a standard
telephone coupler (which also has a cross-over
configuration) and another patch cable, they cancel
each other out and you end up where you started. With
a standard analog device (phone, modem, fax machine)
it generally doesn't matter if the cables are wired
straight thru like a data patch cable (i.e. Ethernet)
or with a cross-over (i.e. telephone). However, the WS
23xx units are non-standard devices and, therefore,
need to have the equivalent of one reversal in the
segment between the console and the thermo/hygro unit.

> Mike,
> Are you using the originally supplied cable
> marked for use with the
> console or did you make your own? I have my sensor
> about 40 feet away
> from my console (a little longer than the 32 feet
> supplied - plus I
> needed to run it through the wall so not having the
> connector on it
> makes it easier). Now I have run telephone cable all
> through my house
> and for work for many years - and did the same here.
> I use category 5
> cable (to allow for multiple phone lines typically)
> and made the
> standard connectors for telephone. When I plugged in
> the cable and
> performed the reset, I was getting no data (just
> dashes). So I started
> doing some investigating. The first thing I did was
> check for voltages.
> Well I found them, but not on the pins they were
> supposed to be on. So,
> wondering what was going on I took a close look at
> the supplied cable
> and found that it is basically a cross-over cable
> where each of the two
> standard pairs were swapped on the opposite end of
> the cable. Once I
> corrected one connector and performed the reset,
> voila I was getting
> data. It sure is nice to see the data come in every
> 6 seconds (although
> faster would be even better). This is likely useful
> for anyone wanting
> to extend the cable with custom made cables. They
> say in the book that
> if you want to extend the cables, to add on to the
> existing cable using
> a coupler. Well that will work fine since the
> cross-over is already
> performed in the original cable. This is a lot like
> a null modem adapter
> and is likely what it is doing.
>
> Let us know if this helps.
>
> David
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: wuhu_software_group@yahoogroups.com
> [mailto:wuhu_software_group@yahoogroups.com] On
> Behalf Of tradewinds63
> Sent: Saturday, October 07, 2006 10:14 PM
> To: wuhu_software_group@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [wuhu_software_group] Re: Hello again (La
> Crosse writes back)
>
>
>
> Negative,
>
> The La Crosse e-mail recommendations for the serial
> connection was
> a bust, merely 2 good packets were sent (after 20
> minutes) and the
> rest were garbage and after getting the 2 good
> packets the console
> outdoor data began to freeze up again.
> Without knowing the appropriate com configuration
> Parity, stop bits,
> fifo compatibility, etc, and not knowing the
> necessary BIOS support, I
> see no reason in attempting to hardwire to the
> Thermo/hygro unit, not
> unless - I want to spin my wheels the rest of the
> week.
>
> La Crosse dropped the ball with regard to providing
> these important
> details.
>
> I'd like to know what the 21 and 23 or 24 mean
> shortly after
> booting up the console, each appears to be a
> differing mode and
> contingent upon the connections to the console. But
> I see no reference
> in the manual of these console boot codes. It's
> another mystery,
> compliments of La Crosse and probably an important
> detail.
>
> I've never in 24 years of computer use encountered
> such a problem
> installing a device, from plotters, multi-meters,
> oscilloscopes,
> spectrometers, and a wide range of communication
> devices, etc. Of all
> the devices, this has been the most difficult and
> meager with regard
> to technical information, a real dead horse.
>
> Enough said, I'll simply use the radio transmission
> mode with the
> computer connection and give up on a hardwire
> connection.
>
> --- In wuhu_software_
> <mailto:wuhu_software_group%40yahoogroups.com>
> group@yahoogroups.com, "tradewinds63"
> <tradewinds63@...> wrote:
> >
> > La Crosse support writes the following:
> > Mike,
> >
> > This unit will work hardwired and to the computer.
> After connecting
> > the hardwire cord, please Press and Hold the
> PRESSURE and WIND buttons
> > at the same time for 10 seconds to reset the base.
> Waith 30 minutes
> > and everything should be reading.
> >
> > Is your wall outlet 2 prong or 3 prong?
> >
> > You can purchase a 9 pin serial to USB adapter at
> most department or
> > computer stores. Or go to www.greatbigoutlet.com
> and purchase the BAFO
> > USB adapter they stock which has been tested and
> confirmed to work
> > with our stations. It is important that your USB
> adapter be Windows
> > Certified as using non-certified adapters can lead
> to stability
> problems.
> >
> > After installing the adapter check in device
> manager to confirm that
> > Windows has recognized the adapter. If it does not
> show under ports
> > (com & lpt) double-check that the driver has been
> installed. If the
> > adapter has been recognized, right click on it,
> choose properties >
> > port settings > advanced. Then be sure to select a
> com port number
> > between one and four. After configuring the
> adapter, connect the
> > weather station and open the Heavy Weather
> software. Data should begin
> > to download within a minute or two.
> >
> > Best Regards,
> >
> > Diane
> >
> > La Crosse Technology - Customer Support
> >
> > 2817 Losey Blvd South
> >
> > La Crosse WI 54601
> >
> > (888) 211-1923 Phone
> >
> > (608) 796-1020 Fax
> >
> > www.lacrossetechnology.com
> >
> > support@...
> >
> > --- In wuhu_software_
> <mailto:wuhu_software_group%40yahoogroups.com>
> group@yahoogroups.com, Jim Kelleher
> > <jkelleher_gk6513@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Mike;
> > >
> > > I've read the various posts regarding your
> problem
> > > with consistant wired communication between the
> > > thermo/hygro unit and the console. I run a
> WS-2310
> > > completely hard-wired with no batteries in the
> outside
> > > unit but with batteries in the console for power
> > > outage protection. The modular cabling/signaling
> > > method used with these systems is not very
> robust when
> > > dealing with EMI issues. The cabling is not
> unshielded
> > > twisted pair/current loop as would be found with
> > > Ethernet, nor is it shielded/Tx, Rx, Return as
> would
> > > be found with serial communications such as
> RS-232. I
> > > would inspect the cable route used between the
> outside
> > > unit and the console for possible sources of EMI
> as
>

=== message truncated ===

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Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com

tradewinds63

E gads... I should leave this alone, but, there seems to be some confusion on connector protocols here. Standard protocol is device face to face and cord back

Message 15 of 18
, Oct 8, 2006

0 Attachment

E gads...

I should leave this alone, but, there seems to be some confusion on
connector protocols here. Standard protocol is device face to face and
cord back to back, that's the first rule and it comes before pin#
standards as the pin number standards are established atop device face
to face and cord back to back.

Yes, that's what I have, the original patch and it "appears" to be
crossed with regard to the pins when reading the pin number to actual
internal wire connective, but you're missing the back to back or face
to face rule of same sex connections as the standard configuration for
all same sex and opposite sex connections.

Boils down to a connection of the thermo/hygro to console as same sex
devices Pin 1 to 4, 2 to 3, 3 to 2 and 4 to 1. Because the cord is
simply a Male/Male extension a "true cross over" would be to flip one
of the male jacks when attaching the plug to the cord during
manufacturing so the pin# matched to the same wire. Common I/O
requires opposite sex connectors from device to device with pin #
matching or the same sex pins to match face to face of opposite pin #
and of 4 we would observe when held together at same sex 1-4, 2-3, 3-2
and 4-1 and that's same sex face to face. Always, no matter sex and
pin # it's face to face/back to back of either device or cord
respectively.

Case in point, the common CRT monitor to Video card is Monitors male
to video cards female. If by chance you have a monitor that has a jack
without a hardwire fixed cord, the monitors jack may be female like
the video card and the patch cord will be male/male and the pins will
be back to back (opposite at face) by default and face to face at
devices; that is not crossed over. In-fact the thermo/hygro to console
is indeed not crossed over and conforms to standard wiring protocol,
with no cross over.

This imaginary cross over is an illusion created by not understanding
the standards of device to device connective protocol. Which is simply
male1 to female1 or if same sex to same sex mirrored pin numbers. If
one device lacks a cord or cannot be directly connected without a
patch, its jack can be the same sex as the intended connecting device.

Imagine simply changing the sex of the Thermo/hygro sensor from what
is now, then if it were possible to connect it to the console without
an "extension" (note extension, not patch). They would pin m1 to f1,
m2 to f2, m3 to f3 and m4 to f4, no cross over occurs and is
essentially exactly what La Crosse has done using same sex device jacks.

As it stands with the current connector method; follow along here, f1
to patch m1 through cord to male 4 to consoles f4. The protocol is not
broken and no cross over occurs because it still ends up device face
to device face. You see, the female on each device will by default
face to face touch at opposite pin numbers...

There is no cross over unless a wire is permanently connected same sex
both sides through cord to same sex and same pin-out. That is a cross
over, as is a cord that has one female end and a male end (called a
crossed extension) and they are manufactured with opposing pin-out #'s
or some odd form therein.

If La Crosse had chosen an opposite sex connector at each device, we
would have an extension cable. With device A @ m-1 connecting to f-1 @
cable through @ m-1 connecting to f-1 @ device B; thus, device A is
connecting m-1 to device B F-1.

The La Crosse WS 2308 uses no cross over and is standard concerning
connector protocol. We're observing the back to back (cord) and face
to face (device) rule. Cords are back to back, devices are face to
face with no deviations in the natural contact as brought together and
if not a default natural contact face to face or back to back then
they are considered "crossed".

Remember the basic rule first - face to face and back to back.
Matching the pin#'s are only applicable when a face to face male to
female device connection is established and or a cord that's back to
back male/female and same sex connections will reflect opposite pin
numbers through the back to back rule.

>
> David;
>
> The cables supplied with the WS 23xx units are
> standard 4 conductor telephone patch cables which, by
> design, have a cross-over built into them (pin 1 to 4,
>

David Williams

Egads is right! I must have had myself screwed up too many times. I do normally work with network connections which do have a different way of handling

Message 16 of 18
, Oct 8, 2006

0 Attachment

Message

Egads
is right! I must have had myself screwed up too many times. I do normally
work with network connections which do have a different way of handling things.
I usually work with the wall plugs and not the connectors themselves so that is
likely were my confusion came from. Thanks for clearing things up! This was just
the source of my problem and thought it might be relevant. If you are just using
the original cable and are still having problems, it may be you have a faulty
unit. I wish you the best of luck in getting it resolved.

I should leave this alone, but, there seems to be some
confusion onconnector protocols here. Standard protocol is device face to
face andcord back to back, that's the first rule and it comes before
pin#standards as the pin number standards are established atop device
faceto face and cord back to back.

Yes, that's what I have, the
original patch and it "appears" to becrossed with regard to the pins when
reading the pin number to actualinternal wire connective, but you're
missing the back to back or faceto face rule of same sex connections as
the standard configuration forall same sex and opposite sex connections.

Boils down to a connection of the thermo/hygro to console as same
sexdevices Pin 1 to 4, 2 to 3, 3 to 2 and 4 to 1. Because the cord
issimply a Male/Male extension a "true cross over" would be to flip
oneof the male jacks when attaching the plug to the cord
duringmanufacturing so the pin# matched to the same wire. Common
I/Orequires opposite sex connectors from device to device with pin
#matching or the same sex pins to match face to face of opposite pin
#and of 4 we would observe when held together at same sex 1-4, 2-3,
3-2and 4-1 and that's same sex face to face. Always, no matter sex
andpin # it's face to face/back to back of either device or
cordrespectively.

Case in point, the common CRT monitor to Video
card is Monitors maleto video cards female. If by chance you have a
monitor that has a jackwithout a hardwire fixed cord, the monitors jack
may be female likethe video card and the patch cord will be male/male and
the pins willbe back to back (opposite at face) by default and face to
face atdevices; that is not crossed over. In-fact the thermo/hygro to
consoleis indeed not crossed over and conforms to standard wiring
protocol,with no cross over.

This imaginary cross over is an
illusion created by not understandingthe standards of device to device
connective protocol. Which is simplymale1 to female1 or if same sex to
same sex mirrored pin numbers. Ifone device lacks a cord or cannot be
directly connected without apatch, its jack can be the same sex as the
intended connecting device.

Imagine simply changing the sex of the
Thermo/hygro sensor from whatis now, then if it were possible to connect
it to the console withoutan "extension" (note extension, not patch). They
would pin m1 to f1,m2 to f2, m3 to f3 and m4 to f4, no cross over occurs
and isessentially exactly what La Crosse has done using same sex device
jacks.

As it stands with the current connector method; follow along
here, f1to patch m1 through cord to male 4 to consoles f4. The protocol is
notbroken and no cross over occurs because it still ends up device
faceto device face. You see, the female on each device will by
defaultface to face touch at opposite pin numbers...

There is no
cross over unless a wire is permanently connected same sexboth sides
through cord to same sex and same pin-out. That is a crossover, as is a
cord that has one female end and a male end (called acrossed extension)
and they are manufactured with opposing pin-out #'sor some odd form
therein.

If La Crosse had chosen an opposite sex connector at each
device, wewould have an extension cable. With device A @ m-1 connecting to
f-1 @cable through @ m-1 connecting to f-1 @ device B; thus, device A
isconnecting m-1 to device B F-1.

The La Crosse WS 2308 uses no
cross over and is standard concerningconnector protocol. We're observing
the back to back (cord) and faceto face (device) rule. Cords are back to
back, devices are face toface with no deviations in the natural contact as
brought together andif not a default natural contact face to face or back
to back thenthey are considered "crossed".

Remember the basic rule
first - face to face and back to back.Matching the pin#'s are only
applicable when a face to face male tofemale device connection is
established and or a cord that's back toback male/female and same sex
connections will reflect opposite pinnumbers through the back to back
rule.

Hello Dave, You didn t screw up; the all of industry is screwed up. Does some things one way and then it turns around and does something else another way, then

Message 17 of 18
, Oct 9, 2006

0 Attachment

Hello Dave,

You didn't screw up; the all of industry is screwed up. Does some
things one way and then it turns around and does something else
another way, then some Maverick manufacturer comes along and does some
real odd ball thing. Bottom line, when creating any connection for
something new, need to have the specs on each device. Who knows for
sure anymore? Compatibility seems to be a problem in this industry
from time to time and every time they seem to merge everything
perfectly, they change the cords or standards again.

In the world of computers and power, you are correct, it's pin# to
pin# or like type, but, I've had some devices that didn't conform to
anything normal. I don't know why that occurs, it just does. There's
only one thing I have found to be semi true, it's that a majority of
the time, the connector type dictates its standard protocol, most of
the time.

I once had an RS232 cable in a box (molded, not a configurable
type), a friend used it with his ZIP drive. He plugged it in and smoke
came pouring out of his ZIP drive. Upon investigation of the RS232, we
found it had a couple real strange pin to pin configurations. It would
have been nice if the manufacturer would have put a red X or some
other eye grabbing marker on it.

Anyhow, I appreciate your input, and yes you're correct about the
cross-over, they do indeed cross over, but on the other hand, they
don't, not according to Ma Bells corner of the universe ;)

>
> Egads is right! I must have had myself screwed up too many times. I do
> normally work with network connections which do have a different way of
> handling things. I usually work with the wall plugs and not the
> connectors themselves so that is likely were my confusion came from.
> Thanks for clearing things up! This was just the source of my problem
> and thought it might be relevant. If you are just using the original
> cable and are still having problems, it may be you have a faulty unit. I
> wish you the best of luck in getting it resolved.
>
> David
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: wuhu_software_group@yahoogroups.com
> [mailto:wuhu_software_group@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of tradewinds63
> Sent: Sunday, October 08, 2006 6:26 PM
> To: wuhu_software_group@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [wuhu_software_group] Re: Hello again (La Crosse writes back)
>
>
>
> E gads...
>
> I should leave this alone, but, there seems to be some confusion on
> connector protocols here. Standard protocol is device face to face and
> cord back to back, that's the first rule and it comes before pin#
> standards as the pin number standards are established atop device face
> to face and cord back to back.
>
> Yes, that's what I have, the original patch and it "appears" to be
> crossed with regard to the pins when reading the pin number to actual
> internal wire connective, but you're missing the back to back or face
> to face rule of same sex connections as the standard configuration for
> all same sex and opposite sex connections.
>
> Boils down to a connection of the thermo/hygro to console as same sex
> devices Pin 1 to 4, 2 to 3, 3 to 2 and 4 to 1. Because the cord is
> simply a Male/Male extension a "true cross over" would be to flip one
> of the male jacks when attaching the plug to the cord during
> manufacturing so the pin# matched to the same wire. Common I/O
> requires opposite sex connectors from device to device with pin #
> matching or the same sex pins to match face to face of opposite pin #
> and of 4 we would observe when held together at same sex 1-4, 2-3, 3-2
> and 4-1 and that's same sex face to face. Always, no matter sex and
> pin # it's face to face/back to back of either device or cord
> respectively.
>
> Case in point, the common CRT monitor to Video card is Monitors male
> to video cards female. If by chance you have a monitor that has a jack
> without a hardwire fixed cord, the monitors jack may be female like
> the video card and the patch cord will be male/male and the pins will
> be back to back (opposite at face) by default and face to face at
> devices; that is not crossed over. In-fact the thermo/hygro to console
> is indeed not crossed over and conforms to standard wiring protocol,
> with no cross over.
>
> This imaginary cross over is an illusion created by not understanding
> the standards of device to device connective protocol. Which is simply
> male1 to female1 or if same sex to same sex mirrored pin numbers. If
> one device lacks a cord or cannot be directly connected without a
> patch, its jack can be the same sex as the intended connecting device.
>
> Imagine simply changing the sex of the Thermo/hygro sensor from what
> is now, then if it were possible to connect it to the console without
> an "extension" (note extension, not patch). They would pin m1 to f1,
> m2 to f2, m3 to f3 and m4 to f4, no cross over occurs and is
> essentially exactly what La Crosse has done using same sex device jacks.
>
>
> As it stands with the current connector method; follow along here, f1
> to patch m1 through cord to male 4 to consoles f4. The protocol is not
> broken and no cross over occurs because it still ends up device face
> to device face. You see, the female on each device will by default
> face to face touch at opposite pin numbers...
>
> There is no cross over unless a wire is permanently connected same sex
> both sides through cord to same sex and same pin-out. That is a cross
> over, as is a cord that has one female end and a male end (called a
> crossed extension) and they are manufactured with opposing pin-out #'s
> or some odd form therein.
>
> If La Crosse had chosen an opposite sex connector at each device, we
> would have an extension cable. With device A @ m-1 connecting to f-1 @
> cable through @ m-1 connecting to f-1 @ device B; thus, device A is
> connecting m-1 to device B F-1.
>
> The La Crosse WS 2308 uses no cross over and is standard concerning
> connector protocol. We're observing the back to back (cord) and face
> to face (device) rule. Cords are back to back, devices are face to
> face with no deviations in the natural contact as brought together and
> if not a default natural contact face to face or back to back then
> they are considered "crossed".
>
> Remember the basic rule first - face to face and back to back.
> Matching the pin#'s are only applicable when a face to face male to
> female device connection is established and or a cord that's back to
> back male/female and same sex connections will reflect opposite pin
> numbers through the back to back rule.
>
> --- In wuhu_software_ <mailto:wuhu_software_group%40yahoogroups.com>
> group@yahoogroups.com, Jim Kelleher
> <jkelleher_gk6513@> wrote:
> >
> > David;
> >
> > The cables supplied with the WS 23xx units are
> > standard 4 conductor telephone patch cables which, by
> > design, have a cross-over built into them (pin 1 to 4,
> >
>

Jim Kelleher

Mike; You have got to be kidding. There are standards in this industry that define the specifications for the various connectors used in the connectivity

Message 18 of 18
, Oct 10, 2006

0 Attachment

Mike;

You have got to be kidding. There are standards in
this industry that define the specifications for the
various connectors used in the connectivity between
data devices. I don't care if you are using an RJ11,
RJ45, DB9, DB25 or any of the countless number of
other connectors used for data connectivity, pin#1
connects to pin#1 connects to pin#1 regardless of the
sex or physical location of the connector. Anyone with
any experience in data cabling should be able to point
out to you which pin is pin#1, pin#2 etc. As for all
of the other specs you require before you plug the
cable in between the console and the thermo/hygro
unit, I don't see the point. It is plug and pray. You
plug it in and pray that it works. Many of us have
done it and have been successful in downloading our
data to our PC's and various servers for many months
without any problems. If you have tried the basic
setup with the included cables in a 'burn in
configuration' i.e. on the kitchen table or the back
deck, and are still having problems, you have a
defective unit(s) or a flawed configuration. If the
system works 'on the ground' but fails after
installation, you'll need to look at the installation
techniques used. Many of us are here to help with any
questions you may have.

> Hello Dave,
>
> You didn't screw up; the all of industry is
> screwed up. Does some
> things one way and then it turns around and does
> something else
> another way, then some Maverick manufacturer comes
> along and does some
> real odd ball thing. Bottom line, when creating any
> connection for
> something new, need to have the specs on each
> device. Who knows for
> sure anymore? Compatibility seems to be a problem in
> this industry
> from time to time and every time they seem to merge
> everything
> perfectly, they change the cords or standards again.
>
>
> In the world of computers and power, you are
> correct, it's pin# to
> pin# or like type, but, I've had some devices that
> didn't conform to
> anything normal. I don't know why that occurs, it
> just does. There's
> only one thing I have found to be semi true, it's
> that a majority of
> the time, the connector type dictates its standard
> protocol, most of
> the time.
>
> I once had an RS232 cable in a box (molded, not
> a configurable
> type), a friend used it with his ZIP drive. He
> plugged it in and smoke
> came pouring out of his ZIP drive. Upon
> investigation of the RS232, we
> found it had a couple real strange pin to pin
> configurations. It would
> have been nice if the manufacturer would have put a
> red X or some
> other eye grabbing marker on it.
>
> Anyhow, I appreciate your input, and yes you're
> correct about the
> cross-over, they do indeed cross over, but on the
> other hand, they
> don't, not according to Ma Bells corner of the
> universe ;)
>
> I wonder why La Crosse used Ma Bell connectors?
>
>
>
>
> --- In wuhu_software_group@yahoogroups.com, "David
> Williams"
> <davecw@...> wrote:
> >
> > Egads is right! I must have had myself screwed up
> too many times. I do
> > normally work with network connections which do
> have a different way of
> > handling things. I usually work with the wall
> plugs and not the
> > connectors themselves so that is likely were my
> confusion came from.
> > Thanks for clearing things up! This was just the
> source of my problem
> > and thought it might be relevant. If you are just
> using the original
> > cable and are still having problems, it may be you
> have a faulty unit. I
> > wish you the best of luck in getting it resolved.
> >
> > David
> >
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: wuhu_software_group@yahoogroups.com
> > [mailto:wuhu_software_group@yahoogroups.com] On
> Behalf Of tradewinds63
> > Sent: Sunday, October 08, 2006 6:26 PM
> > To: wuhu_software_group@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: [wuhu_software_group] Re: Hello again (La
> Crosse writes back)
> >
> >
> >
> > E gads...
> >
> > I should leave this alone, but, there seems to be
> some confusion on
> > connector protocols here. Standard protocol is
> device face to face and
> > cord back to back, that's the first rule and it
> comes before pin#
> > standards as the pin number standards are
> established atop device face
> > to face and cord back to back.
> >
> > Yes, that's what I have, the original patch and it
> "appears" to be
> > crossed with regard to the pins when reading the
> pin number to actual
> > internal wire connective, but you're missing the
> back to back or face
> > to face rule of same sex connections as the
> standard configuration for
> > all same sex and opposite sex connections.
> >
> > Boils down to a connection of the thermo/hygro to
> console as same sex
> > devices Pin 1 to 4, 2 to 3, 3 to 2 and 4 to 1.
> Because the cord is
> > simply a Male/Male extension a "true cross over"
> would be to flip one
> > of the male jacks when attaching the plug to the
> cord during
> > manufacturing so the pin# matched to the same
> wire. Common I/O
> > requires opposite sex connectors from device to
> device with pin #
> > matching or the same sex pins to match face to
> face of opposite pin #
> > and of 4 we would observe when held together at
> same sex 1-4, 2-3, 3-2
> > and 4-1 and that's same sex face to face. Always,
> no matter sex and
> > pin # it's face to face/back to back of either
> device or cord
> > respectively.
> >
> > Case in point, the common CRT monitor to Video
> card is Monitors male
> > to video cards female. If by chance you have a
> monitor that has a jack
> > without a hardwire fixed cord, the monitors jack
> may be female like
> > the video card and the patch cord will be
> male/male and the pins will
> > be back to back (opposite at face) by default and
> face to face at
> > devices; that is not crossed over. In-fact the
> thermo/hygro to console
> > is indeed not crossed over and conforms to
> standard wiring protocol,
> > with no cross over.
> >
> > This imaginary cross over is an illusion created
> by not understanding
> > the standards of device to device connective
> protocol. Which is simply
> > male1 to female1 or if same sex to same sex
> mirrored pin numbers. If
> > one device lacks a cord or cannot be directly
> connected without a
> > patch, its jack can be the same sex as the
> intended connecting device.
> >
> > Imagine simply changing the sex of the
> Thermo/hygro sensor from what
> > is now, then if it were possible to connect it to
> the console without
> > an "extension" (note extension, not patch). They
> would pin m1 to f1,
> > m2 to f2, m3 to f3 and m4 to f4, no cross over
> occurs and is
> > essentially exactly what La Crosse has done using
> same sex device jacks.
> >
> >
> > As it stands with the current connector method;
> follow along here, f1
> > to patch m1 through cord to male 4 to consoles f4.
> The protocol is not
> > broken and no cross over occurs because it still
> ends up device face
> > to device face. You see, the female on each device
> will by default
> > face to face touch at opposite pin numbers...
> >
> > There is no cross over unless a wire is
> permanently connected same sex
> > both sides through cord to same sex and same
> pin-out. That is a cross
> > over, as is a cord that has one female end and a
> male end (called a
> > crossed extension) and they are manufactured with
> opposing pin-out #'s
> > or some odd form therein.
> >
> > If La Crosse had chosen an opposite sex connector
> at each device, we
> > would have an extension cable. With device A @ m-1
> connecting to f-1 @
> > cable through @ m-1 connecting to f-1 @ device B;
> thus, device A is
> > connecting m-1 to device B F-1.
> >
>

=== message truncated ===

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