Where are the Knights of the Round Table? Are there none left?

Posted Thursday, March 29, 2012, at 1:19 PM

My title might confuse you, but when I tried to make a better descriptive one, It was just too long.

My question is are there no charismatic, principled, honest presidential candidates available any more, or did we really never have them in the first place? That is not saying that some of the candidates don't have some of the qualities but no one seems to be standing out.

Would JFK have passed the "vetting" by press now? I really liked and still do admire President Reagan. Was he real or am I just forgetting major character flaws?

Are there any viable candidates or does the news media vetting, the ability to slander without penalty and the anonymity of the internet make the worthwhile ones stay in the background?

Would you subject your family to the scrutiny, and more?

If you say no, are we as a result, letting those influences dictate the quality, availability of our political candidates?

I couldn't agree more Steve. I wouldn't just limit that to our young though.

If each individual would seek to better the life of another individual, then we would all be better off.

I think there is a fear of being an independent individual in todays society. Because with that, comes individual responsibility. Which is something we should also embrace.

-- Posted by Liveforlight on Sun, Apr 15, 2012, at 8:50 AM

I just listened to a speaker from the YMCA who had a horrific childhood. He survived and pulled himself up to be a productive member of society. He also adopted two teenagers who had been abused sexually for 16 years! It took 3 years of extreme patience and support but he now feels these two will be able to stay out of prison and function.

I say all this to share his solution to the downward spiral of society and many youth. He said it is time for each individual to step up and find a way to help make a young person's life better. He is not talking about buying a ipod or giving them $100.

He is saying that we need to do something to show the young folks that we care about them, who they are, what they do, whether or not they succeed in life. I can not get anywhere close to doing his presentation justice. It was very moving and thought provoking.

-- Posted by stevemills on Sat, Apr 14, 2012, at 3:37 PM

I believe that dependency came about because of selfishnes and greed. These are two moral flaws that all humans have, albeit to varying degrees.

Those who have power, money, and authority, lack the level of concern for their fellow man that God said we should have. Throughout history we see times when this was reset. Usually, through extreme tyranny, tragedy, or catastrophic events. As Jefferson put it, "The tree of liberty must be freshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants".

People, myself included, do not like to be wrong. If our error is pointed out, we will often try to find a scapegoat. The lawyer and legislator is quick to find that scapegoat for us. They can use "The Law" to argue your case and even secure monetary payments to you, for your error.

God has placed in us each a genuine concern for our fellow man and commanded us to love each other as ourself.

Enter the Socialist!! He exploits this natural tendency to his advantage by passing laws that appear to acheive exactly that. What really happens is that his selfishness and the selfishness of the beneficiaries begin to work together to plunder those who are working and producing. Those being plundered feel the injustice of it what is occuring and begin to withdraw, Jesus said "due to excessive lawlessness the love of many will wax cold".

Now we have three goups of people, the "haves", the "have-nots", and the legislator. So long as the burden to support the have-nots is not burdensome to the haves, the legislator is given free reign to legislate and we have apathy.

Of course, our selfishness, and greed is still at work. So, the have-nots want more, the haves want to give less. The legislator promises both what they want. In order to acheive that, he has to borrow money from somewhere (national debt). This is the tipping point where responsibility should catch up with dependency. However, at this point, no one is being held responsible for their actions so the process continues.

The "have-nots" have been getting benefits for so long he now feels entitled to them and works to obtain more. The "haves" have been paying so much that they begin to search out ways to hide their wealth to retain more for themselves. The legislator works to maintain his high position by contiuing to promise both what they want. Thus the debt continues to mount and enevitable balloon stretches to the bursting point.

The legislator uses all the power at his disposal to try to meet all three demands. This includeds the alteration of the thought processes of both haves and have-nots.

So,now we have sort of a Chinese finger cuff. The one side pulling against the other with Legislator/government acting as the cuff. This produces resentment by all parties. Our self-made disasterous ballon sets waiting to explode. God is not in the picture here. He is always present to pick up the pieces after it all blows up.

What is the solution? Simple. Love God with all your heart, and Love your neighbor as yourself.

The haves, out of Love, will give opportunity and wealth to the have-nots because he wants to please God, loves them, and wants them to be as prosperous as he is.

We have serious moral decline and morality can not be legislated. Unfortunately, it is the nature of man to reject that which he cannot control. So he says, "I know, but what can I do about it?" when the answer was given long ago.

-- Posted by Liveforlight on Sat, Apr 14, 2012, at 8:37 AM

Liveforlight, I agree that we are all too dependent upon our government and its extensions. The question that I have is how that dependency came about. It seems to me as though we need to understand how and why we are at this point before we can even think about regaining our independence (even on an individual level). You see, our dependency did not develop in a vacuum.

I also like the Declaration, but I view it somewhat differently than you appear to. I don't guess that should be surprising though, given our respective world-views.

-- Posted by memyselfi on Sat, Apr 14, 2012, at 12:23 AM

memyself makes some very good points here. I will expound on how the trend can be stopped. This will be quite lengthy.

What we are lacking is the responsibility of the individual.

Knights conjour a vision of a noble character committed to an honorable cause for which he is willing to fight and die. The round table represents equaility among a group of knights all possessing the same characteristics. A Knight is a strong individual with a firm commitment and defined responsibility.

What has happened is that we have become dependent on our government. What will stop the trend is to regain our independence. This is not an easy task but it has been done before and lead to great prosperity and freedom. There is a document that expresses what is, and has to be done. Here is a copy of the text;

When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.--That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, --That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.--Such has been the patient sufferance of these Colonies; and such is now the necessity which constrains them to alter their former Systems of Government. The history of the present King of Great Britain is a history of repeated injuries and usurpations, all having in direct object the establishment of an absolute Tyranny over these States. To prove this, let Facts be submitted to a candid world.

He has refused his Assent to Laws, the most wholesome and necessary for the public good.

He has forbidden his Governors to pass Laws of immediate and pressing importance, unless suspended in their operation till his Assent should be obtained; and when so suspended, he has utterly neglected to attend to them.

He has refused to pass other Laws for the accommodation of large districts of people, unless those people would relinquish the right of Representation in the Legislature, a right inestimable to them and formidable to tyrants only.

He has called together legislative bodies at places unusual, uncomfortable, and distant from the depository of their public Records, for the sole purpose of fatiguing them into compliance with his measures.

He has dissolved Representative Houses repeatedly, for opposing with manly firmness his invasions on the rights of the people.

He has refused for a long time, after such dissolutions, to cause others to be elected; whereby the Legislative powers, incapable of Annihilation, have returned to the People at large for their exercise; the State remaining in the mean time exposed to all the dangers of invasion from without, and convulsions within.

He has endeavoured to prevent the population of these States; for that purpose obstructing the Laws for Naturalization of Foreigners; refusing to pass others to encourage their migrations hither, and raising the conditions of new Appropriations of Lands.

He has obstructed the Administration of Justice, by refusing his Assent to Laws for establishing Judiciary powers.

He has made Judges dependent on his Will alone, for the tenure of their offices, and the amount and payment of their salaries.

He has erected a multitude of New Offices, and sent hither swarms of Officers to harrass our people, and eat out their substance.

He has kept among us, in times of peace, Standing Armies without the Consent of our legislatures.

He has affected to render the Military independent of and superior to the Civil power.

He has combined with others to subject us to a jurisdiction foreign to our constitution, and unacknowledged by our laws; giving his Assent to their Acts of pretended Legislation:

For Quartering large bodies of armed troops among us:

For protecting them, by a mock Trial, from punishment for any Murders which they should commit on the Inhabitants of these States:

For cutting off our Trade with all parts of the world:

For imposing Taxes on us without our Consent:

For depriving us in many cases, of the benefits of Trial by Jury:

For transporting us beyond Seas to be tried for pretended offences

For abolishing the free System of English Laws in a neighbouring Province, establishing therein an Arbitrary government, and enlarging its Boundaries so as to render it at once an example and fit instrument for introducing the same absolute rule into these Colonies:

He is at this time transporting large Armies of foreign Mercenaries to compleat the works of death, desolation and tyranny, already begun with circumstances of Cruelty & perfidy scarcely paralleled in the most barbarous ages, and totally unworthy the Head of a civilized nation.

He has constrained our fellow Citizens taken Captive on the high Seas to bear Arms against their Country, to become the executioners of their friends and Brethren, or to fall themselves by their Hands.

He has excited domestic insurrections amongst us, and has endeavoured to bring on the inhabitants of our frontiers, the merciless Indian Savages, whose known rule of warfare, is an undistinguished destruction of all ages, sexes and conditions.

In every stage of these Oppressions We have Petitioned for Redress in the most humble terms: Our repeated Petitions have been answered only by repeated injury. A Prince whose character is thus marked by every act which may define a Tyrant, is unfit to be the ruler of a free people.

Nor have We been wanting in attentions to our Brittish brethren. We have warned them from time to time of attempts by their legislature to extend an unwarrantable jurisdiction over us. We have reminded them of the circumstances of our emigration and settlement here. We have appealed to their native justice and magnanimity, and we have conjured them by the ties of our common kindred to disavow these usurpations, which, would inevitably interrupt our connections and correspondence. They too have been deaf to the voice of justice and of consanguinity. We must, therefore, acquiesce in the necessity, which denounces our Separation, and hold them, as we hold the rest of mankind, Enemies in War, in Peace Friends.

We, therefore, the Representatives of the united States of America, in General Congress, Assembled, appealing to the Supreme Judge of the world for the rectitude of our intentions, do, in the Name, and by Authority of the good People of these Colonies, solemnly publish and declare, That these United Colonies are, and of Right ought to be Free and Independent States; that they are Absolved from all Allegiance to the British Crown, and that all political connection between them and the State of Great Britain, is and ought to be totally dissolved; and that as Free and Independent States, they have full Power to levy War, conclude Peace, contract Alliances, establish Commerce, and to do all other Acts and Things which Independent States may of right do. And for the support of this Declaration, with a firm reliance on the protection of divine Providence, we mutually pledge to each other our Lives, our Fortunes and our sacred Honor.

This document preceeded the Constitution and supplied the noble cause for which the "Knights" were willing to lay down their lives. This enabled the Constitution to be written and adopted.

The idea that "all men were created equal" is noble and true. The statement that we are "endowed by our creator with certain unalienable rights" is also.

With these two statements we see the foundation for all of our laws. Without a belief in the "created" and "Creator" the entire thing comes unravelled. The true foundation of liberty is found here and without it the underpinning of our Castle is undone and the whole thing will collapse. It is just a matter of time.

The idea of being created equal tends to elevate us in our own self-centered minds. We don't seem to grasp that we ALL also have the flaws that are common to all human beings. These flaws are carried through from the individual to the collective government when the foundation is removed upon which the flaws are able to stand.

Even Jefferson, who wrote the Declaration, held slaves, denying his fellow man their liberty which was endowed by God. The price for that injustice was terrible and need not have even occurred if they had built on the foundation to which they had committed their lives. That, in itself, is a perfect example of the flaws of human controll of what has endowed by God.

The idea of being committed to God is repulsive to some, but the fact remains that we ALL have faith in what we believe to be true. If we remove "created" and "creator", then with what do we replace them?

-- Posted by Liveforlight on Wed, Apr 11, 2012, at 9:17 AM

"No doubt that apathy is rampant. But why"

I imagine that it is a result of many factors, but the most important one is that we have been conditioned to be apathetic. How we relate to external authority follows us from our childhood into adulthood. We are introduced to submission at a very young age, and never escape the Panopticon that entraps our minds.

To be blunt, we are not expected to exercise our right to shape our government in any way, but that path which has already been chosen. We are kept ignorant and insecure, squabbling over irrelevancies, while our birthright (a self-governing society) has been embezzled from us while we were sleeping. We have no meaningful choices. We are trained to live entirely within a political spectrum that consists of a nurturing mother/strict father dichotomy of implementation, wherein either choice leads to the same end result. We sense that we have been slighted, but we do not know who to blame (even though we do look hard, and most everyone will assign blame to someone--typically someone unlike themselves).

"No doubt that we are to blame. But how do we stop the trend?"

I do not know that it can be stopped. I do not even know if it should be. It may be the case that people need an ever larger imposed internal framework to ensure a more and more cohesive society. I would like to think not, but I certainly do not know. It has never actually been done before, save some very short periods of relative liberty.

If it is to be reversed, it would have to begin with the next generation. It is too late for us adults. We are not talking about learning a civics lesson; to have the ability to self-govern people need both knowledge and understanding. We are unfortunately lacking the most basic of tools to begin, that is unless self-interest, ignorance, and intolerance are the prerequisites.

-- Posted by memyselfi on Wed, Apr 11, 2012, at 1:21 AM

A problem with the system, is that people are finding out that their votes do not count. When the voting comes down to the president, for an example, the "little" people's votes do not count. They are simply considered as a suggestion of who should be president.

As for voting for congress, senators, and even mayors, people no longer pay attention because they know that it is the same old story with every politician. They tell you that they are going to do something as soon as they are in office. Then, once elected, they turn into the exact same person you just voted out of office.

I am one, that does not look at what party someone is in. I think most people are getting tired of the separation of the parties and the problems that they cause when a bill is trying to go through the government. If there was someone who did not take anyone's side and was honest about what needs to be done - then that would be the knight. But unfortunately, politicians like that have died out just as the knights have done.

-- Posted by PrpleHze on Tue, Apr 3, 2012, at 11:32 AM

People in this country used to get very excited by elections. They actually cared about elected officials who put the best interest of our country first. Out of apparent selfish and self-centered motives, people are asking them selves "what can my government do for me" and therefore vote for the candidate who promises them that they can not only have their cake, but eat it as well.

I'm not 100% certain of how we stop the trend Steve, but maybe we could start by vetting the candidate ourselves, instead of listening to and believing everything coming out of the mouths of talking heads in the media. It really doesn't take that much effort to check a candidates voting record or fact check their track record as a public servant. A potential voter could then select a candidate who's record indicates that they have similar values. Voting straight down party lines also indicates that a person would step into the voting booth and vote for Charles Manson himself as long as he had the little D or R at the end of his name.

I'll readily admit that I'm a pretty regular viewer of FOX NEWS. The main stream media lost me a long time ago. However at FOX, they are sometimes way over the top with their conservative bias. So I try to fact check newsworthy items on my own and form my own opinion.

-- Posted by Tim Lokey on Tue, Apr 3, 2012, at 1:18 AM

No doubt that apathy is rampant. But why?

No doubt that we are to blame. But how do we stop the trend?

If we know the very best candidate, are we doing them a favor to encourage them or are we tearing up their lives with the "vetting" process that follows?

-- Posted by stevemills on Mon, Apr 2, 2012, at 6:13 AM

When it all gets down to where the tire meets the road, we can all be pretty good at casting blame. I do it myself sometimes...even though I know better. Truth is (in my humble opinion) that we, ourselves are to blame for the current state of politics. Voter apathy has led us down the path we are currently on. When the average person can name the twelve finalists on American Idol, yet don't know or care who their congressional representative is, our nation's future survival and prosperity will sadly be dependent upon those who refuse to vote rather than those who do.

-- Posted by Tim Lokey on Sun, Apr 1, 2012, at 10:19 PM

We could do without the knights of the realm if we had a decent wizard and a sword that could pick out wise and virtuous leaders.

-- Posted by quantumcat on Sun, Apr 1, 2012, at 10:09 PM

....are we as a result, letting those influences dictate the quality, availability of our political candidates?

----Steve Mills------

I believe this is probably exactly what is happening. Almost all media is now under the control of just 6 companies. ALL one needs to do is take a look at those six entities and see what they are involved in and promote to see why the media is so obviously skewed.

Very little negative reporting is inflicted upon those who have similar views. In the last election their was very little known about Mr. Obama. There is still very little known about him and there is not likely to be much more disclosed about him in this election cycle either.

Obama had some very powerful advantages working for him in the last election. The media, his race, he was not a Rebulican, and his ideas seemed fresh, new and offered hope.

This time there is only his own record to overcome. That should be a monumental task because the country is more divided than it has ever been in my life time, the debt he has created in three yrs has exceed the debt Bush created in 8 yrs., Muslim/terrorist sympathizers now control countries that were our allies, an opportunity to support the people of Iran trying to overthrow their oppressive hostile regime was squandered, numerous lawsuits by states opposing a socialist takeover of healthcare, intentional sales of guns to illegal alliens, I could go on, but the point is the media will never bring this things to light and vet the mans performance as they should. These things are the only measure there is of the man since he has all of his records sealed. (So much for transparencie)

Yes, Steve we are letting those influences dictate the quality and availabiity of political candidates.

There are those who would have this president dictate policy to our congress and country. This type of president is commonly known as a dictator.

-- Posted by Liveforlight on Fri, Mar 30, 2012, at 9:38 PM

Ironically, he ignores the rhetoric and does what needs to be done without Congress.

-- Posted by Evil Monkey on Fri, Mar 30, 2012, at 3:33 PM

Well that certainly answers the questions about the knights of the round table!LOL

I guess adding $5 Trillion to our nation debt needed to be done!

The knights, in this case are mostly, Democrats anyway but I am sure they can sit in their circle and point the finger of blame at the next guy. Rhetoric indeed!

JFK was probably the last president to sincerely want to set things right. We all know what happened to him.

The best hope we have is that the citizens awaken and quit asking "what can my country do for me?" but instead "what can I do for my country?"

I don't expect any knights in shining armour to be able to correct this mess. At least until we see the one seated on a white horse carrying a double edged sword.

-- Posted by Liveforlight on Fri, Mar 30, 2012, at 3:54 PM

"As a president, he has been an abysmal failure."

Think maybe, he was setup to fail. Ironically, he ignores the rhetoric and does what needs to be done without Congress. Additionally, seems the experts tend to disagree with your assessment.

-- Posted by Evil Monkey on Fri, Mar 30, 2012, at 3:33 PM

As a sitting senator, Mr. Obama was in office for only 166 days before beginning his presidential campaign. During this time, he only voted on 3 key pieces of legislation. Just exactly how did the news media vett this man? They didn't. Unless of course you count the MSNBC news anchor who said he felt "tingles" run up and down his legs when Obama entered a room. I'm still waiting for someone to point out just exactly what it was that qualified this man to be President. As a president, he has been an abysmal failure.

-- Posted by Tim Lokey on Fri, Mar 30, 2012, at 12:54 PM

That is why we do not need to elect a "politician".

This I can agree with.

And according the conservatives, Obama isn't a politician, he is a community organizer. hehe.

Apparently, Obama must be really lucky to have all of these things happening around him that take the spotlight off him.

Well, when he said it, did he cackle like a mad man and rub his hands together too? If he didn't then I guess his intentions weren't too bad.

I try to vote for the right person nationally and locally. I hate this idea of parties, the two party system stinks it really doesn't allow for getting the best men and women into office.

For example:

Oklahoma City Mayor (R) Mick Cornett is one of the most progressive thinkers and really thought ahead and they were recession proof. Why? Because he surrounded himself with smart people who were both liberal and conservative and they were the best in their fields.

This is a man I would be happy with and support. He didn't do it for the party, he did it for the people.

-- Posted by Evil Monkey on Fri, Mar 30, 2012, at 10:30 AM

That is why we do not need to elect a "politician".

I have to disagree with not being concerned about someone cheating on their spouse. It shows some character flaws that need to be evaluated. If they cheat on someone they have promised to be faithful to, what makes the Nation any different?

A one-time slip .... human, but a prolonged affair is something different.

EM, I like to think I vote for the candidate, but admittedly, I lean more Conservative and therefore identify with more Republicans on the National level. Locally it is all about the person.

I say this to preface my main point and that it I too think the Conservative is analyzed and criticized much more, more aggressively and for longer than a Liberal. A case in point is Mr. Obama's slip with the "live mike".

If any conservative did that, it would be top news for weeks. Now, the Republicans are trying to get some mileage from that, but I rarely hear it on radio news coverage.

Since I brought it up, his statement is understandable and reality, but the fact that he asked if any mikes were live makes his intentions seem questionable.

-- Posted by stevemills on Fri, Mar 30, 2012, at 8:44 AM

I think that media is bias and slams the politicians that they don't like. Everyone has skeletons in their closets. And everyone knows that when you do run for office, then your life is closely watched. That is a good thing and a bad thing for us voters.

A good thing, as in the presidential hopeful is a sex offender, has claimed bankruptcy multiple times, has been a flip-flopper on various subjects.

A bad thing, as in the repeated coverage over and over again of simple mistakes they may have made in their lives. I don't care that someone cheated on their wife. I don't care that someone may not be a christian. I don't care that someone said a curse word. None of these have anything to do with doing a job correctly. If it did, then there would be plenty more of unemployed people in the US.

There are no honest people in politics. It simply cannot happen. There are too many hands in the politician's pockets for them to actually vote or speak from their own mouths. They say and vote what they are being paid to.

-- Posted by -Beth- on Fri, Mar 30, 2012, at 4:29 AM

"Liberals are given a free pass by the media."

How so?

-- Posted by Evil Monkey on Fri, Mar 30, 2012, at 3:00 AM

During the Clinton administration, those who were beginning to question his character due to the Lewinski scandal were told time and again by his avid supporters that character doesn't matter. They shouted in unison, "It's the economy stupid." Well, to quote a certain pastor..."The chickens have come home to roost." Unfortunately, the character of Presidential hopefuls is no longer an issue...unless of course, the candidate is a conservative. Liberals are given a free pass by the media.

-- Posted by Tim Lokey on Thu, Mar 29, 2012, at 11:26 PM

Charisma is needed to win over the vote, unless the "system" is behind them, in which case, they are probably NOT who we hoped.

-- Posted by stevemills on Thu, Mar 29, 2012, at 8:48 PM

Maybe not charismatic, but Ron Paul is the most principled, honest candidate I've seen in a good while. So much so that he seems like an "oddball" by comparison.

-- Posted by quietmike on Thu, Mar 29, 2012, at 7:09 PM

We also seem to be on a mission lately to DUMB DOWN the office.

-- Posted by Palindrome on Thu, Mar 29, 2012, at 5:09 PM

The deregulation of the media conglomerations started it. The Citizens United Ruling was the nail in the coffin.

When you have media companies owning multiple networks, newspapers and tabloids, the truth can be whatever they want it to be and label it as "for entertainment purposes only"

Steve Mills and his wife have one daughter. They previously owned two coffee/ice cream shops, currently operate an internet sales company and teach classes, but his primary job involves the paper industry worldwide. Hobbies and interests lie in gardening, photography, recorded music and of course, their pets.