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And to your last point, about campaigns, they are a replacement for servers, the fact that the zone is the size of oblivion, holds up to 2k players and is persistant makes it open world

A campaign in not a replacement for a server. It is an instance located on a server but does n't replace the entire server, just the cetral Cyrodil province. It is also not open world.

Imagine 2 friends meet up and just happen to both have joined campaigns, although different ones. They both walk to the edge of Cryodil and as they cross over they disappear from each other. The first guy goes to his campaign (Instance) and the 2nd guy goes to his campaign (instance). The world outside doesn't change but the campaign area of Cryodil does.

That is 100% instancing and 100% not open world. The minute 2 people standing side by side are seperated they are instanced and non open world. There really isn't any argument about that (well you can argue it but you just don't understand the technology or are just ignorant).

Your missing my point entirly, your campaign (instance) is designed to be your "home", not just an instance that can be swapped at a whim like the rest of the pve world, so yes campaigns are server replacements

Instancing in cyrodil is there to replace servers because there are no servers to limit the player count in that zone, the reason why its a server replacement on cyrodil but not the rest of the world (which is also instanced) is due to the fact that its persistant and you get locked to that instance (campaign), so theres a permanence to them which isnt there in the rest of the world.

So to break it down it will be persistant have up to 2k players and your locked to it. That is pretty much the exact same restrictions as it would be if it was seperated by server instad of an instance, so i really dont see how one is open world and the other not if they both have the exact same restrictions/benafits

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Originally posted by jtcgs

Originally posted by deakonYes people will zerg but there will be more than one battle to zerg, and the chances of all 3 factions all zerging the exact same objective with 100% of their forces at the same time is very unlikely

I have half a mind to try to convience my entire guild to get this game and plan out to get 300-400 of us to ALL ATTACK THE SAME PLACES to ruin as many of your experiences as possible for defending this idiotic plan of theirs with such a blind defense. The game is in BETA, NOW is the time to wake them up to this fact and get them to CHANGE it before its too late.

If an idea is bad, SAY ITS BAD, dont defend it just because you may or may not like the game as a whole. It IS OK to say you like 95% of a game and still speak out about the 5% you DONT THINK IS A GOOD IDEA and this is NOT a good idea. They are making the entire game around these central PvP zones which makes it the single most important aspect of the game...to have 2000 player cap, yet limit what can been on screem to 200 smacks of a very large WTFH kinda stupid idea is this?!?

Once very large guilds learn of this cap, they WILL EXPLOIT IT by having their people stay together and let OTHERs take the other objectives...

And once again to everyone else...this is NOT an OPEN WORLD GAME. They are calling instances CAMPAIGNS, changing the word instance to something else does not change the fact that it is INSTANCED.

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Clearly some of you dont understand what open world is. Open world is not the opposite of instanced. Open world is the opposite of linear.

Open world does not mean that there are no zones, or instances, or load screens. It means that there are no artificial barriers or invisible walls WITHIN those zones, or instances. It means you are free to roam across the entire instance, jumping, climbing or running around without encountering obstacles.

This can easily be an open world PvP. And yes, Gw2 is open world, both the PvE and the WvW. Sorry your definition doesnt fit in with the rest of everyone elses, but its much easier for you to accept the game industries standard than to try to redifine everyone elses into your personal idea.

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Clearly some of you dont understand what open world is. Open world is not the opposite of instanced. Open world is the opposite of linear.

Open world does not mean that there are no zones, or instances, or load screens. It means that there are no artificial barriers or invisible walls WITHIN those zones, or instances. It means you are free to roam across the entire instance, jumping, climbing or running around without encountering obstacles.

This can easily be an open world PvP. And yes, Gw2 is open world, both the PvE and the WvW. Sorry your definition doesnt fit in with the rest of everyone elses, but its much easier for you to accept the game industries standard than to try to redifine everyone elses into your personal idea.

GW2 WvW is a persistant open world just not tied to the questing world per say so basically it's own little world.. but instancing how i always read the definition is when the zone, dungeon, map, whatever creates a copy of itself to accomodate more people or groups of people.. for me then it can lose it's feel of a persistant map since you log in one day and could be in another instance of the zone.. in WvW that wouldn't happen. But honestly ill have to wait and try it to really make any sort of solid judgement.. if done well it still could be a lot of fun.

I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg

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Clearly some of you dont understand what open world is. Open world is not the opposite of instanced. Open world is the opposite of linear.

Open world does not mean that there are no zones, or instances, or load screens. It means that there are no artificial barriers or invisible walls WITHIN those zones, or instances. It means you are free to roam across the entire instance, jumping, climbing or running around without encountering obstacles.

This can easily be an open world PvP. And yes, Gw2 is open world, both the PvE and the WvW. Sorry your definition doesnt fit in with the rest of everyone elses, but its much easier for you to accept the game industries standard than to try to redifine everyone elses into your personal idea.

Open World PVP, in one bordered zone. Just like GW2 is open world PVP, because you can fight "openly" in a separate war instance. Lol?

In that context, you are correct. As a standalone "Open World PVP" - no. Segregations make the world so restrictive as to where a particular character can travel that it is not open world, even for PVE. And without faction crossover zones other than the final PVP map, there is no "Open World PVP". Just Open World PVP, in one bordered zone, which is a perversion of the meaning of open world.

You may as well admit that there is nothing open world about TESO. Or keep trying to convince yourself that the lacking qualities of TESO are what is making TESO equal to or better than the competition. Makes just about as much sense.

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Yes people will zerg but there will be more than one battle to zerg, and the chances of all 3 factions all zerging the exact same objective with 100% of their forces at the same time is very unlikely

I have half a mind to try to convience my entire guild to get this game and plan out to get 300-400 of us to ALL ATTACK THE SAME PLACES to ruin as many of your experiences as possible for defending this idiotic plan of theirs with such a blind defense. The game is in BETA, NOW is the time to wake them up to this fact and get them to CHANGE it before its too late.

If an idea is bad, SAY ITS BAD, dont defend it just because you may or may not like the game as a whole. It IS OK to say you like 95% of a game and still speak out about the 5% you DONT THINK IS A GOOD IDEA and this is NOT a good idea. They are making the entire game around these central PvP zones which makes it the single most important aspect of the game...to have 2000 player cap, yet limit what can been on screem to 200 smacks of a very large WTFH kinda stupid idea is this?!?

Once very large guilds learn of this cap, they WILL EXPLOIT IT by having their people stay together and let OTHERs take the other objectives...

And once again to everyone else...this is NOT an OPEN WORLD GAME. They are calling instances CAMPAIGNS, changing the word instance to something else does not change the fact that it is INSTANCED.

jtcgs,

Why all the hate? I mean, personally, I look at new games coming out and if I don't like what they have to offer, I simply don't buy/play them. It's a pretty simple philosophy. Just trying to get my head around why you and others are attacking the game.

Is it that you are a huge fan of TES series and want to see the game be successful? Or is it that the game doesn't fit what YOUR vision of what a game should be?

I can understand if you honestly want to try to help improve the game while it's still in beta but don't you think your purpose would be better served on the game's own website?

In my opinion, (I know opinions are like assholes, we all have one and they all stink) if you're trying to help the game improve, you are going about it the wrong way. Seriously, threatening to get your guild to ruin others game experience? That just makes you seem like the little kid on the playground that has the only ball screaming at everyone else "If we don't play it my way, I'm going to take my ball and go home"!

I don't have a personal stake in this game really. I like TES but not a huge fan, Skyrim was fun. I friggen loved DAOC pre-TOA and was dissapointed by GW2's attempt to recapture RvR. (that might be something that never happens. Nostalgia is a hard thing to duplicate) So, I will resume my sitting in the cheap seats and watching the text battle on the forums. I was just interested in yours and other attackers motivation.

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Clearly some of you dont understand what open world is. Open world is not the opposite of instanced. Open world is the opposite of linear.

Open world does not mean that there are no zones, or instances, or load screens. It means that there are no artificial barriers or invisible walls WITHIN those zones, or instances. It means you are free to roam across the entire instance, jumping, climbing or running around without encountering obstacles.

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PvP siege battle which looks like hundreds or eventhousands of soldiers facing off against each other. Is a battle of this magnitude actually possible in the game, made up of human players?

Every one of the figures in that video was a human player. We got all of our devs into the game for a PvP test, and then captured that sequence with them. It was all in-game. Cyrodiil (the PvP map) is open-world and supports up to 2000 players in it at the same time. ESO’s client is designed to be able to handle (on the recommended spec) 200 players on screen at the same time. That particular scene had about 115 players on each side.

Color me confused, how can it support 2k players, yet a person can only see 200 at one time.

if it support 200 on screen, and are 3 factions, then itll be 60-70 person per side?

Where does the other 1800 players...play?

the network can keep track of 2k on the PvP map, but the recommended specs for internet feed and coms and all that mean after there are so many players withen a certan distance of you, lag will start to acure

its not that the network cant keep up its that their is only so much information a internet line can handle at a time, and every player withen site is sending information through that line to you

honestly 200 is a fairly large number, iv seen some games that start lagging around 50 or 100

plus you got to think what in sire means its prob not very likely to have 200 people in site at one time unless ya got a very good vantage point

F2P may be the way of the future, but ya know they dont make them like they used toProper Grammer & spelling are extra, corrections will be LOL at.

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Originally posted by ShakyMoIt's the mega server that's the stupid idea. Not having cyrodil as a rvr area.

Ideally we'd have a typical server system with healthy population, so I understand exactly what you mean when you say that. However, consider how all new big MMO releases see a massive influx of people, then lose a huge portion of them afterwards. This leads to empty areas and poor player experience all-around.

The Megaserver system is a practical solution to this above problem. In this day and age, do the developers of TESO really have any business being arrogant enough to assume they'll be different and not lose tonnes of players like all the other AAA MMOs do a few months down the road?

"Tiny clown, he got wet. I was talking to a psychic and I can't sleep in the ozone. There are too many different peanuts, looking sad.

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I believe the "official" reason behind the Megaserver - that it sucks picking one server while your friend picks another without talking to you, and you now not being able to play together - is BS marketing because it doesn't sound to good if they go out and say what essentially means "we'll probably lose some players after launch."

Two reasons for that being.

1. I've never heard of anyone have that problem. When friends roll in a new game they coordinate on picking the same server. They communicate because, you know, they're friends?

2. Megaservers don't solve this problem because characters of different factions can't play together. There's nothing preventing you and your "friend" whom you apparently never talk to, rolling on opposite factions.

"Tiny clown, he got wet. I was talking to a psychic and I can't sleep in the ozone. There are too many different peanuts, looking sad.

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You will probably zone in some how. Then all of Cyrodil is open to roam in .. You know the entire area in Oblivion? Yea it is huge. In that sense its going to be as open world as TES4 ..

The other areas of the game.. All we know is that in previews people have went their own way and did what ever they wanted. How big or how small each area is we really dont know yet.. I havent seen any notes yet if the main faction areas are cut into smaller zones or not. The only thing I have seen so far is that the entire faction areas are cut off from each other.

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Good thing is Elder Scolls Online is reintroducing the Public Dungeons which are non-instanced. Yet another feature that proves its not just another clone.

Personally myself I am not interested in the PvP so I dunno why I debate its merits so much here lately LOL. I am only interested in the progression of my character and the aforementioned open world exploration and dungeons. In fact to be honest, I am more interested in Neverwinter becasue of the possibilities of the foundry system, however I am looking forward to recreating my Skyrim experiences in a persistant open world setting. Hopefully Paul Sage's comments of the level cap only being a 3rd of the way through your cahracters progression remains true.

I'm happy about the Public Dungeons. I loved dungeon crawling in DAOC. Making your way to the very end of the dungeons were difficult, and when you did, you knew you were ready for the next dungeon up. Made most of our friends in DAOC just from dungeon hunting. Was fun times.

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You will probably zone in some how. Then all of Cyrodil is open to roam in .. You know the entire area in Oblivion? Yea it is huge. In that sense its going to be as open world as TES4 ..

The other areas of the game.. All we know is that in previews people have went their own way and did what ever they wanted. How big or how small each area is we really dont know yet.. I havent seen any notes yet if the main faction areas are cut into smaller zones or not. The only thing I have seen so far is that the entire faction areas are cut off from each other.

Please source where the size of TESO's Cyrodil is comparable to the area in Oblivion. I would like to read more about this..

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You will probably zone in some how. Then all of Cyrodil is open to roam in .. You know the entire area in Oblivion? Yea it is huge. In that sense its going to be as open world as TES4 ..

The other areas of the game.. All we know is that in previews people have went their own way and did what ever they wanted. How big or how small each area is we really dont know yet.. I havent seen any notes yet if the main faction areas are cut into smaller zones or not. The only thing I have seen so far is that the entire faction areas are cut off from each other.

Please source where the size of TESO's Cyrodil is comparable to the area in Oblivion. I would like to read more about this..

No links off the top of my head but they were in video interviews. Not only that how else could Cyrodil support up to 2000 players?

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You will probably zone in some how. Then all of Cyrodil is open to roam in .. You know the entire area in Oblivion? Yea it is huge. In that sense its going to be as open world as TES4 ..

The other areas of the game.. All we know is that in previews people have went their own way and did what ever they wanted. How big or how small each area is we really dont know yet.. I havent seen any notes yet if the main faction areas are cut into smaller zones or not. The only thing I have seen so far is that the entire faction areas are cut off from each other.

Please source where the size of TESO's Cyrodil is comparable to the area in Oblivion. I would like to read more about this..

No links off the top of my head but they were in video interviews. Not only that how else could Cyrodil support up to 2000 players?

np, I just never saw the 1:1 direct comparison before (ie not scaled down or up, etc). 16 km squared would be pretty big though ( ~2.5 miles on each side if it could be turned into a square). It's reasonable for 2000 players though, like you said .. if the game can really handle that much, since it only really showed 200+ players. Not sure how much of that is phased or instanced though.

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Here is a simple fact...

DAoC had PvP, it wasn't open world, didn't have full looting and was probably THEE best PvP game ever made. Why? Because it had entertainment value. It wasn't about running around ganking lowbies, it was about strategy, multiple battles in multiple territories all fighting over dominance and relic control.