I'd like OR to lose the "Team USA" bit from their name now, please. It's on the edge of insulting now, to me at least.

People can shrug this off as no big deal but Boeing vs Airbus is a big deal. It's a huge deal. And now the supposed "Team USA" is going to be advertising the main competitor of Boeing, one of the US cornerstone companies, in the U.S.? Bull shit. That would be like LR forging a technical partnership with Mercedes over Ferrari.

WetHog

I certainly hear where you are coming from, but the worst part is that they have turned their nose up at Cammas.

Now THAT is a huge fucking insult.

I am aware that they are huge in the US, but they SHOULD have supported the French Team.

Biggest fuck you I have seen for a long time.

Turds.

Share this post

Link to post

Share on other sites

Sometimes you have to just scratch your head at the idiocy of some folks when they don't seem to really get PR, nationalism, etc. I had a lurching gut reaction, as an American, when I heard that Oracle went with Airbus, and I'm guessing most Americans do. Couldn't they have just not picked Airbus? How about some smaller American aerospace company? Bad play, IMO, by Oracle (note my intentional omission of "Team USA").

I have applauded Oracle's effort to make the AC relevant with top-end boats and coverage, and I hope for their efforts/changes to stick well into the future, but I'm ready for a challenger to win. Honestly, I have a feeling Ellison is getting bored with it, and would probably not mind so much losing the cup at this point, but couldn't just quit. I'm pulling for Ainsley or Cammas, at this point. I can't say I won't revert back to my "home" team as competition gets going, but there needs to be some change to get me back rooting for the team as headed by Oracle.

Yes it would be great if it were Boeing instead. One can easily make the argument it 'looks bad' from a PR perspective, nationality-wise, maybe especially so given that both play roles in the Defense & Space markets.

But I never had an issue with the BMW sponsorship (so big it was a part of the team's branding name) - one that also involved a technology partnership involving (iirc) ceramics and F1 aerodynamcis and BMW's 'Precision Engineering.' A German company, yes with plenty of operations in the USA, but not Cadillac or wheoever. And as Airbus is listed as just an 'innovation partner' (whatever the heck that means) well it's not like the team name is about to include them. Like with ETNZ, Oracle Racing has long had a list of international partners, sponsors, suppliers, etc. Tag H (Swiss, right?) may have been their biggest in AC34.

My guess is that it's basically a cost-saver for OR, a sharing of computing hardware & software, and perhaps how best to use add-on tools for extra analysis. Airbus is not about to learn anything useful aircraft-wise from OR that they don't already have huge expertise in; and probably the same is true in reverse, since what really does Airbus have to offer from experience in the hydrodynamics of boat-foil design that OR may need? Airbus does get good publicity in the States, but they're very far from the only company pursuing that with success. To me, it's just neat that whatever similiarities there are between AC foilers and the aircraft industry is being hilited. A step up from, say, the F1 analogy.

The eye-candy shots in the vids were of the flight simulators and JS made a comment in one of the pieces about how it would be fun to have something like an 'amusement park ride' that could also help pre-trial design configurations well ahead of launch date. But I doubt Airbus is about to turn on some massive effort to tailor a Sim to a boat.. And what Matt Mason and that other effort in San Fran (forget his name, French) have going on could be in the real sweet-spot on that front anyway.

Link to post

Share on other sites

There was some rumblings way back when, I think, but its really not close to the same thing. American luxery cars cannot hold a candle to BMW, Mercedes, etc... This is "Team USA" sighing up with one of the U.S. biggest companies major competitor. Its a dumb fucking move by RC and friends.

Share this post

Link to post

Share on other sites

I'd like OR to lose the "Team USA" bit from their name now, please. It's on the edge of insulting now, to me at least.

People can shrug this off as no big deal but Boeing vs Airbus is a big deal. It's a huge deal. And now the supposed "Team USA" is going to be advertising the main competitor of Boeing, one of the US cornerstone companies, in the U.S.? Bull shit. That would be like LR forging a technical partnership with Mercedes over Ferrari.

WetHog

I certainly hear where you are coming from, but the worst part is that they have turned their nose up at Cammas.

Now THAT is a huge fucking insult.

I am aware that they are huge in the US, but they SHOULD have supported the French Team.

Biggest fuck you I have seen for a long time.

Turds.

Yes they should of supported the French team, but Airbus is more of an EU company than a French one isn't it? If they supported Team France then BARF would of felt slighted.

Share this post

Link to post

Share on other sites

In the video the suggestion was made that most of the cooperation would be between TUSA and Airbus Wichita. So a sort of internal US deal. (Like ETNZs sponsorship from Toyota NZ - rather than 'Toyota')

That could in theory leave the European facilities available to a European team, but I doubt that, too fiddly - and it was the Big Chief of Airbus Fabrice Bregier making the announcement after all.

Share this post

Link to post

Share on other sites

One is a US company, the other is an EU based company. "Team USA" went into buisness with the EU company. Yes this is a big deal. We aren't talking about OR going into business with one of many luxury car companies. We are talking about OR promoting one of just 2 airplane manufacturers, and the lone USA company is not one of them.

i can live with a BMW affiliation (cause USA car companies still make their cars with plastic not carbon fiber), and only 1 sailor from the USA on the boat, but taking sides against Boeing in a 2 company competition really bothers me. It's beyond bad optics. It is stupid.

Share this post

Link to post

Share on other sites

I'm with WetHog here. Pretty tired of TOUSA selling out, Larry not representing and Russell running around and selling to the highest bidder. His Kiwi traitor side is pretty strident and his Highest bidder practice is pretty sour. I'm obviously a huge fan of USA and I hope others are true to their National Teams ( makes it more fun) but USA has very little USA and LArry should be fully ashamed as time goes on. Better to lose with honor than die with shame. (funny how he doesn't see this even with all of his Japanese influences). PM me LE and I'll help you see the light.

Share this post

Link to post

Share on other sites

Well it's obvious that the America in 1851 was all about proving America's yacht technology superiority on a global stage.

It's just not 1851 any more, we may as well move with the times, recognize and take advantage of that fact. The power in this new world is less about borders than about global business networks. Some, like LE, are masters of this new universe. That success shines as brightly, just in a more progressive era.

Share on other sites

Did you mention this hatred of the 'j's' when you gazed into lazza's eyes and thanked him for inviting you to his 'partay'....

Do you know a better way to get his attention?

When you stared into lazza's dreamy eyes and gushed your thanks to him, I'm pretty sure you didn't mention your hatred of the Japanese, as he seems to have based his lifestyle around the Japanese culture...

Share this post

Link to post

Share on other sites

Well it's obvious that the America in 1851 was all about proving America's yacht technology superiority on a global stage.

It's just not 1851 any more, we may as well move with the times, recognize and take advantage of that fact. The power in this new world is less about borders than about global business networks. Some, like LE, are masters of this new universe. That success shines as brightly, just in a more progressive era.

I hear you Sting and understand the multi-national, big world stuff but just wish that if we use country names with the teams we try to have country teams with the names. Or, drop the nationality stuff altogether and move on to professional teams and corporate sponsors w/o geography.

Share this post

Link to post

Share on other sites

One is a US company, the other is an EU based company. "Team USA" went into buisness with the EU company. Yes this is a big deal. We aren't talking about OR going into business with one of many luxury car companies. We are talking about OR promoting one of just 2 airplane manufacturers, and the lone USA company is not one of them.

Well, the folks at Embraer would disagree with you, but I understand where you're coming from.

It's no surprise that a Cupholder that won't honor the things that make the AC what it is would have a free for all.

Share this post

Link to post

Share on other sites

Maybe TF (or any team) would get a similar deal if they asked, who knows?

My guess from the TF response is that they already have French aerospace designers in mind, just from a different company. And if you think about it, smaller may be better.

The Airbus honcho alluded to as much when suggesting the Airbus engineers would benefit from OR by learning to be 'more agile.' And Fresh made comments along those lines too when talking about how fast their feedback loop had to be, from instrumentation analysis to physical configuration changes - often done overnight. That kind of cycle speed is pretty foreign to the very, very heavily-regulated processes at big aircraft companies except for in small test or instrumentation labs where actual flight safety is less a concern.

Share this post

Link to post

Share on other sites

I can see of only 3 other french companies, Thales, Snecma and mainly Dassault.

The original TF rumor, that had people thinking Airbus, was along the lines of 'a major French aerospace company' so Yes, perhaps one of them was at the heart of that rumor.

Again, bigger is not necessarily better unless it were mostly about money - something I doubt that the Airbus backing involves. Help from a more nimble company may be a lot more useful to a startup effort that doesn't have an agile-experienced team already in place.

Share this post

Link to post

Share on other sites

Most were claiming that their was no money in France to finance a team for the AC. Still, Airbus, getting money from European and French taxpayers is helping Oracle. Pretty disgusting indeed.

If they don't support Team France or any other European team some political voices will be heard, and I will help. That could cost quite a lot to Airbus grants and reputation.

Unless this collaboration intent is to justify helping TF later ?

What a joke. "Some political voices will be heard, and I will help". Have at it - maybe you can get MSP to sue everyone for collaborating with the defender, and he will send them all to prison for being traitors. Just like all the others he's sent to prison

I'm sure you can blow this whole thing up with all your political prowess

Share this post

Link to post

Share on other sites

The Airbus honcho alluded to as much when suggesting the Airbus engineers would benefit from OR by learning to be 'more agile.' And Fresh made comments along those lines too when talking about how fast their feedback loop had to be, from instrumentation analysis to physical configuration changes - often done overnight. That kind of cycle speed is pretty foreign to the very, very heavily-regulated processes at big aircraft companies except for in small test or instrumentation labs where actual flight safety is less a concern.

Yes but "learning to be more agile" is BS for commercial aerospace designers, for the reasons you give. Aircraft generally use ancient electronics systems, for example, because regulatory processes mean it takes years and $$$ to change them. It's about as different from designing a disposable AC boat as it's possible to be.

Share this post

Link to post

Share on other sites

I'm sure you can blow this whole thing up with all your political prowess

We're waiting for the results - please keep us updated.

I will if it does.

Now, after all your braggings about the Cup in SF what did you do ? you prefer pissing against your vice commodore, GD, your city, TK, than trying to influence positively within you own YC. Born to be troll

Share this post

Link to post

Share on other sites

^^ actually if they are GE or Pratt & Whitney engines, that could be right. The engines can be in the 50% of total value ballpark - or at least they were some years ago for the 737 buz jet JV I set up with Boeing.

ORACLE TEAM USA is finishing its second session training on Moths at Lake Macquarie in Australia. According to Kyle Langford, “It’s the best place in the world, so you can’t really argue against it, can you? Everyone’s been enjoying it. Where else would you rather be?”

“It’s been great to get all these guys together again and get out there sailing,” agreed sailing team manager and tactician Tom Slingsby. “We’re getting ready to do the Moth World Championships in January. We hear a lot of other AC teams are getting out there training as well, so we’ll have some good competition and hopefully we can beat some of the other AC teams!”

Share this post

Link to post

Share on other sites

Australian James Spithill was nominated for leading ORACLE TEAM USA to one of the greatest comebacks in all sporting history. Trailing Emirates Team New Zealand 8-1 in a first to nine quest for one of yachting's greatest prizes, the America's Cup, skipper Spithill inspired a comeback of epic proportion with a faultless "down but not out" approach. Levelling the series at 8 apiece his team was victorious in the winner takes all final race; Spithill's second triumph in the 162-year old contest.

35 year-old Spithill is the third Australian to win the ISAF Rolex World Sailor of the Year Award, following Mat Belcher (2013) and Tom Slingsby (2010).

Quote James Spithill, "With such a fantastic group of nominees it's quite humbling to be included in the same group. I feel a little awkward winning this award. It seems it is an individual award and in my case it could not be further from the truth. What happened on San Francisco Bay was an incredible team effort. I was just a small piece. I would like to accept the award on behalf of a great group of people, ORACLE TEAM USA."

Australian James Spithill was nominated for leading ORACLE TEAM USA to one of the greatest comebacks in all sporting history. Trailing Emirates Team New Zealand 8-1 in a first to nine quest for one of yachting's greatest prizes, the America's Cup, skipper Spithill inspired a comeback of epic proportion with a faultless "down but not out" approach. Levelling the series at 8 apiece his team was victorious in the winner takes all final race; Spithill's second triumph in the 162-year old contest.

35 year-old Spithill is the third Australian to win the ISAF Rolex World Sailor of the Year Award, following Mat Belcher (2013) and Tom Slingsby (2010).

Quote James Spithill, "With such a fantastic group of nominees it's quite humbling to be included in the same group. I feel a little awkward winning this award. It seems it is an individual award and in my case it could not be further from the truth. What happened on San Francisco Bay was an incredible team effort. I was just a small piece. I would like to accept the award on behalf of a great group of people, ORACLE TEAM USA."

Share this post

Link to post

Share on other sites

ORACLE TEAM USA is finishing its second session training on Moths at Lake Macquarie in Australia. According to Kyle Langford, “It’s the best place in the world,... so you can’t really argue against it, can you? Everyone’s been enjoying it. Where else would you rather be?”

“It’s been great to get all these guys together again and get out there sailing,” agreed sailing team manager and tactician Tom Slingsby. “We’re getting ready to do the Moth World Championships in January. We hear a lot of other AC teams are getting out there training as well, so we’ll have some good competition and hopefully we can beat some of the other AC teams!”

Share this post

Link to post

Share on other sites

US aerospace companies have become EXTREMELY cash conscious, and aren't inclined to throw money at something that won't contribute directly to their cash flow. We don't get to spend overhead dollars supporting Larry's yacht race.

Share this post

Link to post

Share on other sites

^ It is the advance of leading edge sailing that is at stake here. The fact we use rich guys egos and countries fervour, matters little as long as we get great sailing technology. That is where my magic little Laser came from too (down a long path maybe!)

Share this post

Link to post

Share on other sites

^ It is the advance of leading edge sailing that is at stake here. The fact we use rich guys egos and countries fervour, matters little as long as we get great sailing technology. That is where my magic little Laser came from too (down a long path maybe!)

Not really. The Laser rig has roots that go back to Scandinavian dinghy designs of the late 1940s. The OD dinghy concept originated in Ireland in the 19th century. Add on plastics mass-manufacture and alloy tubes from the aeronautical industry. I see no trickle down from the AC at all.

Share this post

Link to post

Share on other sites

No, the correct answer is Oracle corporation won it. The Cup no longer belongs to yacht clubs or nations. It is a regatta between corporations - Oracle, Emirates Airlines, Prada, etc. Now we pick the corporation we want to root for, not the nation or club...

Frankly, as an American, I wish that they would take the "Team USA" out of their moniker. I in no way feel represented by them...

Oracle and Prada are just rich guys using their business interests to further (and to be furthered by), their 'sporting' interests.

Blame it on Lipton then , he started it all.

Damn tea barons

Sorry Max, in nav's isolated world we're not supposed to take any historical precedents or facts into consideration if they don't support his argument. We're supposed to agree to only consider selective facts that support his arguments.

He would do well in the Obama administration, and last I checked they had a few openings ..

Share this post

Link to post

Share on other sites

CLEVELAND, Dec. 1, 2014 /PRNewswire/ -- Parker Hannifin Corporation (NYSE: PH), the global leader in motion and control technologies, today announced that it will work with ORACLE TEAM USA, the defending champion of the America's Cup, to design and implement hydraulic control systems on its America's Cup racing yachts.

As Official Hydraulic Systems Hardware Supplier to ORACLE TEAM USA, Parker will customize proven aerospace and industrial technologies to a marine environment to help power the team's pursuit of the 35th America's Cup.

"We are excited to apply our expertise in flight control and motion control systems to help ORACLE TEAM USA design these advanced yachts," said Craig Maxwell, Chief Technology Officer for Parker Hannifin Corporation.

"Similar to systems we produce for advanced commercial aircraft, the racing yachts in the America's Cup literally take flight when they lift out of the water on foils. To enable this technical marvel, Parker will work with the team by leveraging our broad portfolio of technologies to provide precise control of the lifting surfaces and the wing (sail) required to produce optimum performance."

The next America's Cup will be in 2017 and raced in the AC62 class - a foiling catamaran powered by a highly-efficient wingsail. The boats are light, extremely fast, and designed and built at the cutting-edge of technology. The AC62 is expected to reach maximum speeds near 50 miles per hour, at up to three times the windspeed.

Parker will integrate its controls, hydraulics, and actuators into a key motion and control system that helps the boat achieve stability as it lifts onto its foils and accelerates.

"Our goal is to continue to push the limits of what is believed to be possible on the water," said Jimmy Spithill, skipper and helmsman of ORACLE TEAM USA. "We are excited to have the engineering support from a world leader such as Parker. The design and engineering of the control systems on the boats will be a key differentiator between the teams, and we feel none are better suited for the job than Parker."

"At Parker we take on some of the world's greatest engineering challenges every day in support of our customers," concluded Maxwell. "Our engineers have been assigned to the challenge of helping the team design some of the fastest sail boats ever as they prepare for a repeat success in 2017."

Share this post

Link to post

Share on other sites

^ Just so long as they stay within the (more liberal) rules this time...

15. HYDRAULIC VALVES AND DRIVE CLUTCHES

15.1 Hydraulic valves and drive clutches for winch systems shall only be manually or electrically operated.

15.2 Electrically operated valves and drive clutches shall be commercially available and Competitors shall have had these approved by the Measurement Committee for use.

15.3 The system that controls electrically operated valves for appendage rotations about the rake axis may only receive external manual input and positional input of the:(a) appendage positions about the rake axis directly measured relatively to their own hulls;(b] valves; and(c] hydraulic rams,that are used to control rake axis movement of appendages.

15.4 Other than permitted in Rule 15.3, hydraulic valves or drive clutches shall only be driven bycontrol signals (i.e. open and close) that depend on the following:(a) the internal positional state of the valve being driven, such as the spool or cam position relative to the valve body (but excluding signals that relate to the position, orientation or motion of the valve in space);(b] direct manual input; and(c] an internally generated timing signal initiated by manual input.

15.5 Electrically operated valves and drive clutches:(a) shall have the wiring for systems permitted in Rule 15.3 isolated and clearly identifiable from the wiring systems permitted in Rule 15.4. The wiring for systems described in Rules 15.3 and 15.4 shall be isolated and clearly identifiable from any other wiring system. Each of these systems shall have its own voltage supply which may be connected to acommon battery provided each system is electronically isolated; and(b]shall be hard-wired and may use protocol-based communications (CAN, Ethernet, etc.)

16.2 Batteries containing Lithium and Cobalt that exceed a total capacity of 8000 mAh are prohibited.

16.3 Adjustment of the wing, jib, daggerboard, and rudder (including rudder wing) shall only be:(a) from manual power (the power directly generated by crew);(b] as allowed in Rule 16.1; or(c] from the effect of gravity and the direct contact with wind or water on that wing, jib, daggerboard, or rudder (including rudder wing). Except that:(i) rudder rotations about the axis on the hull centerplane may be linked; and(ii) power from one daggerboard rotation or translation cannot be used to adjust a different rotation or translation of that daggerboard.

Share this post

Link to post

Share on other sites

^ it is an AC72, with a complete platform: and there is some of both, old video but also new video in a new space with Parker people shown.

^^ thanks for Irvine, Dixie. I did notice that Irvine location on the link's list and noticed that the much closer Richmond facility is mostly energy industry related. Makes sense for where that boat is.