I couldn't agree with you more. The original thread should have stayed. And the thread that caused the whole uproar. It was my choice to cease posting until it all went away, as all things do here over time.

But the flip side is:

Just like the forum is for everyone and everything, so is my right to say everything and anything. So telling someone to "get over themself" for posting their opinion, is being a little hypocritical - to me at least.

PTC, you strike me as somebody who could get into a lot of trouble thinking
you are smarter than you really are, not that you're going to give an iota's
worth of value to some well-meaning advice from an old fart.

Before the Squirmish Inquisition had taken it upon their self to proscribe the way, the light, the path according to the scriptures of moral hygiene, there was tunes, madness, and good works.
F*#k the sanctimonious, I liked this stuff and post it again so I can go back to it and ENJOY it again :

Sheriffs have been known to cause wrongful death, psychopaths, maniacs
inmates etc. may uncorrectly categorize or stereotype.

By CA. law teen p0rn under the age of 18 may not always be unlawful.
Secondly when parents attempted to defend themselves using a emancipation
defense, the emancipation was not ruled void, however liability was still
bound to the parents of the emancipated minor due to failure to file a release form.
The Warbler

Now, underage or teen models should be out of bounds for various reasons - I honestly didn't even think about their age until some female poster pointed it out - but the hostility to the gist of the thread was obvious and coming from disgruntled women before that.

The climbing world hasn't always had this issue - climbing used to be a solid boys club, and women knew their place in it. Then climbing mags began to be scolded by "feminists" if they ever printed a photo of a woman that had any sexual quality to it. The mags caved to the vocal minority. I remember a letter raking Yvon Chouinard over the coals for using a photo of a topless woman bouldering, shot from behind in a pair of his stand up shorts, barely the side of one breast showing.

Pick up a surf, skate, snowboard, motorcycle mag and see the difference. There's more tits and ass in one surf mag than all issues of climbing combined.

It's almost like lots of climbing women are threatened by physically beautiful women, especially those with extra weight in their upper body who don't climb.

Nice effort to break out of the rut, Anastasia and crew. Prudes prevail again.

Jan 23, 2013 - 09:16am PT
Kevin, point well taken but for me there are other issues. I know this is a forum for climbers rather than a climbing forum but the OT content and the ensuing drama has gone, at least for me, over the top.
Maybe it's the angst that becomes more prevalent in the depths of winter, maybe it's just what the forum has become. The fact remains that 80% of the threads currently on ST can be found anywhere on the internet. Those threads, based on the posts they elicit, dominate the content of ST.
As i aproach my 70th birthday, the sands running ever faster thru the hourglass, i have decided to dedicate this year to some climbing goals. A climbing forum can serve like a support group and this does if you are willing to dig. Unfortunately, i find myself getting sucked into the muck and morass of the bulk of discussion here.
I need to take a sabbatical while i get on with my goals. I'll peek in to see if i can find a nugget or two.
Fish Finder

Social climber
THE BOTTOM OF MY HEART

Jan 23, 2013 - 09:23am PT

I really feel for Chris Mac.

I bet he never has kids after having to deal with all the babies here.

Can you imagine how many emails he must have to decipher?

So and So called me names, so and so is a jerk, so and so posted mean images.

For F*#k Sake
Bullwinkle

Boulder climber

Jan 23, 2013 - 09:24am PT
Hey Jim, hope you're doing well.

The Climbing World that I live in does not seem to have a problem with nudity. But I guess that's because the Climbers that appear in StoneNudes are mostly in their 20's a much different generation than posts here. . .Think about it. . .df
GDavis

Social climber
SOL CAL

Jan 23, 2013 - 09:29am PT
Haha Dean true, but I think it also has to do with a positive mind set and healthy self-esteem for your friends.
Jim Brennan

Trad climber
Vancouver Canada

Jan 23, 2013 - 09:31am PT
Bullwinkle is right. We should all use some common sense when it involves women's and men's feelings:

kennyt

climber
Woodfords,California

Jan 23, 2013 - 09:34am PT
Who gives a fuk what you think? If this is a serious matter you need to get out more.
Cosmiccragsman

Jan 23, 2013 - 09:50am PT
I don't for a second believe that any well formed male actually has an issue with the female form in any way shape or form, nude of otherwise. I do believe that people enjoy masquerading as puritanical guardians of The Faith. But I wish they would really go into their own thoughts and beliefs instead of bashing ours. There is plenty of room for all opinions here, and the most august, righteous and bombastic are often the most entertaining. And this is all entertainment, of that we may be sure. There's nothing remotely "serious" about a thread on knockers, no matter how you spin it.

JL
Tony Bird

climber
Northridge, CA

Jan 23, 2013 - 10:12am PT
maybe you never had the pleasure of mixed company in climbing, warbler, but it pre-dates even your term in california. if i have to drop some names, try mr. and mrs. john mendenhall and mr. and mrs. chuck wilts. oh, yea, more boys than girls in this sport, but one of the things that attracted me was the happy mixed company of it. that all follows good manners out the window.

don't kid yourself that this is a guy thing. we already have a "tittay" thread that gets revived occasionally and then properly dies for lack of interest. this thread was started by a young woman with an agenda, and that has made all the difference.

maybe you missed the genesis of it, JL, being in the hospital. it did all begin with something quite serious, nothing remote about that, the sandy hook shootings. or, should i say, alleged shootings, according to the suggestion of tom cochrane, who brought up the little matter of mind control, patsies, and staged government terrorism, matters i know you'd probably rather not get into. it got to be quite a free-for-all for a few days over christmastime, and then anastasia decided to play the tits card to draw everyone away from the conspiracy theorizing and tom cochrane bashing. worked a charm. for the record, i'm not the least prudish about any of it, although i think it got pretty extreme for a climber's forum. i just ignored it and delivered an occasional snide remark on other threads. but i can't ignore losing lolli.
Hardman Knott

Gym climber
Muir Woods National Monument, Mill Valley, Ca

Jan 23, 2013 - 10:20am PT

Credit: Hardman Knott

Jim Brennan

Trad climber
Vancouver Canada

Jan 23, 2013 - 10:23am PT
Tony, are you seriously jumping on the latest conspiracy theory that the Sandy Hook shootings were a gov't black opps in order to steal a perceived right to be an as#@&%e with a gun ?

What exactly do you define as obscene with this thread ?
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station

Jan 23, 2013 - 10:25am PT

Credit: survival

GDavis

Social climber
SOL CAL

Jan 23, 2013 - 10:25am PT

The White Knight is here, sacrificing manhood for acceptance from women his mother never gave him!

Jan 23, 2013 - 10:27am PT
anastasia should have nuked that thread. it's a measure of her immaturity, and perhaps her ego, that she couldn't recognize the monster she had created.
Dude, I think your cheese has slid off yer cracker
The Larry

Jan 23, 2013 - 10:34am PT
atchafayala,
on what grounds? I believe many whom believe in Carnivore or
other types of that software to be of unsound and or mentally
unstable minds. If there is grounds to search a computer mental
soundness should grant a court order for confiscation of the
computer itself so prevent liability upon those whom are probably
unsound minds.

There are also numerous other state laws prohibiting remote network access, tracking etc.

Back to partition setup and btw i am my own man and I do not work
for ISP's.

Jim Brennan

Trad climber
Vancouver Canada

Jan 23, 2013 - 10:37am PT
Answer the question Tony. Do you believe the killings at Sandy Hook were a government plot that would lead to enabling gun registration ?

You brought it up in defense of Tom Cochrane.
kennyt

climber
Woodfords,California

Jan 23, 2013 - 10:40am PT
Time for a thread hijacking.

Credit: kennyt

kennyt

climber
Woodfords,California

Jan 23, 2013 - 10:41am PT

Compromise
Compromise
Credit: kennyt

patrick compton

Trad climber
van

Jan 23, 2013 - 10:45am PT
I enjoy the irony that as the tits got smaller, the more upset peoples got.

I thought the Boob thread was quite cutting-edge and thought provoking.

Grok on this for a minute:

If underage tities are so horribly wrong (and I'm not sure what as posted was underage), then does that make topless beaches in Europe where parents walk around with their kids the devil's playground?

No, at the end of the day, it is the human body, male or female.

If we as westerners saw more nudity, we would be desensitized to it and it wouldn't be the issue it is.
patrick compton

Trad climber
van

Jan 23, 2013 - 10:47am PT
...oh, if you don't like the female upper body, why open the thread?
zBrown

Ice climber
chingadero de chula vista

Jan 23, 2013 - 10:48am PT
seriously

Cosmiccragsman

Trad climber
AKA Dwain, from Apple Valley, Ca. and Vegas!

Jan 23, 2013 - 10:58am PT

Edit
JEleazarian

Trad climber
Fresno CA

Jan 23, 2013 - 10:58am PT
this thread was started by a young woman with an agenda

Tony,

I think CMac acted properly in removing the thread, given his potential liability. I've seen many people sentenced to be remanded to the custody of the Federal Bureau of Prisons for child pornography, and those were almost always my most depressing days in court. Also, Super Topo is in the business of selling climbing guides, and can legitimately regulate content that might drive potential customers away because of unnecessary offense.

Nonetheless, I feel a need to stand up for my friend Anastasia. While I'm sure she's amused to be called a young woman, her only "agenda" was, I'm quite sure, having some fun (and poking some fun rather gently)at the expense of her male friends.

Anastasia is a climber, wife, mother, and also the holder and expounder of political beliefs that are often the exact opposite of mine. I find her contributions here valuable. I would also note that she, too, took a rather extended sabbatical from ST and I, for one, am glad she chose to return.

While I'm sorry that Lolli has decided to leave (temporarily, I hope), I just can't see the happenings on any climbers' forum as serious. Also, I don't think we'd have a worthwhile forum if we all had to tiptoe on eggshells for fear of offending someone. Again, this is a private forum, and CMac has the right to regulate it in any way he sees fit. I, for one, greatly appreciate how he's given us as wide a latitude as possible to express ourselves.

John
couchmaster

climber
pdx

Jan 23, 2013 - 11:02am PT
I think Anastasia is a wonderful person. Shes a hell of a lot more mature, intelligent and nicer than most of us.

jus sayin...

Ama Dablam! Woot! Nice one Bruce.

I'll see your Ama Dablam and raise you an underage Tibetian girls shaking the horse bells on a Mt Everest trip photo.

Speaking of the little children...if ya want to raise a lil climber ya need to start early they say.
Cosmiccragsman

Jan 23, 2013 - 11:19am PT
cmac deleted the boobs thread? i thought t*r scuttled it by dumping a zillion pics of a nuclear explosion on it, making the load-in very time consuming. then, as punishment, so the gossip here goes, cmac disabled her account. correct me if i'm wrong.

i will admit that i'm only theorizing that lolli left because of all this.
Chaz

Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area

Jan 23, 2013 - 11:30am PT
"i will admit that i'm only theorizing that lolli left because of all this."

You'd be playing the percentages.

We had a problem like this at one of the bars I worked.

Women wouldn't walk in, (or wouldn't stay very long or wouldn't come back again if they did walk in) as long as the joint was dominated by loud, rude, dirt-workers who showed up early and stayed all night ( couldn't go home because that's where their wives were ). Too rude or too stupid to keep their hurtful language to themselves.

We fixed that by getting rid of the things they liked, like Budweiser Draft ( replaced with Guiness ), the pool table ( replaced with a piano and dance floor ) and the Lottery ( replaced by nothing ).

The positive results were immediate. The loud dirt-workers found another sausage-bar and couples and groups of women and educated guys started coming in. It became a cool place to hang and a fun place to work.

I don't know how you would work that here, though.
John M

climber

Jan 23, 2013 - 11:31am PT
CMac deleted the thread. The photo bombs didn't destroy the thread, they just made it difficult to get through.

Anastasia has a more European mindset. As do others here. Something you don't seem to understand.

Norton

Social climber
the Wastelands

Jan 23, 2013 - 11:37am PT
how about the other women, John?

a number of them have posted their "displeasure' with the boob thread

maybe they didn't have a European mindset, but they kept quiet and let it go on
and only when it was deleted did they speak out

and women were not the only ones who felt a boob thread did not belong here, there were some males who spoke out also

t*r decided to not be quiet about how she felt, she had had enough

this is a public internet web site, about climbers and climbing
presumably people of all ages and genders from around the world visit this site

why is it "oK" to support the righteousness of the boob thread anyway?
John M

climber

Jan 23, 2013 - 11:44am PT
Norton.. I appreciate that some people didn't like the thread. Male or female. As I told Sullly, I didn't know what to tell her about the thread. I can see why she doesn't like it and I can see why some people are not offended. What I was referring to was Tony's assumption that since Anastasia didn't delete the thread this must mean she had ego involved or was immature. I find that characterization kind of shallow and narrow minded.

I liked the thread, but knew that it would become gross eventually, which is why I deleted the pictures that I posted.

I wish that there was a mature way to enjoy the beauty of the female body without all of the inherent background garbage that goes along with it, but there doesn't seem to be. At least not on an open forum.
selfish man

Jan 23, 2013 - 11:53am PT
I saw the first 40 or so posts on the boob thread & thought it was a refreshing break from the gun threads. For sure there are some here that will take it to taste bordering level, as almost any thread. If you don't like the thread, or any thread, then don't read it. I don't read the political threads but I don't mind if others do. Should I bomb the dog or gun threads ?? If you think there's child porn on it call the cops or whatever you need to do. Glad she's gone, doesn't climb...bye bye.
k-man

Gym climber
SCruz

Jan 23, 2013 - 12:01pm PT
Settle down, or I'm gonna have to come over there and knock some sense into you!

Queen WannaKilYaBona
Queen WannaKilYaBona
Credit: FortMental

More:

selfish man, that was f'nunny.
bvb

Social climber
flagstaff arizona

Jan 23, 2013 - 12:26pm PT
The folks who think there were photos of underage women on that thread must be in their late 30's at least. Anyone visit a college campus lately? The freshmen look like infants, like children. Moreover, Law Enforcement goes after child pornography with a righteous vengence. All the photos on the Boobs thread were conjured through a simple Google image search for "boobs", "tits", or "breasts."

The most surprising thing about this whole debacle is the extraordinary level of wildly uninformed commentary. I spent five years at The Evergreen State College, the birthplace of radical post-feminism, the Riotgrrl movement, Queercore music, etc. Many of the most established thinkers in family studies and woman's studies teach there -- Stephanie Coontz, Susan Strassman, and so on. My ex-wife, who many of you know, met me just a few weeks after moving out of one of Olympia's most fundamentalist lesbian households. So I know a bit about some of this stuff. And when I read the commentary here, I cringe. It has all the insight and subtlety and understanding and nuance of a cafeteria food fight.

The strident pronouncements on the boobs thread about it being "porn"; how it served this purpose, or that -- or not; how Cmac was potentially criminally liable, on and on and on. Please. I guess there are a lot of people here with very little drama in their lives for whom this provides something to get worked up over. When I wake up in the morning, I wonder what I can do that day to make my 20-year-old autistic son's life better, or how I'm gonna pay for my daughter's braces. The boobs thread was a lightweight and comical diversion. Anyone who thinks otherwise is a cultural ostrich who needs to go read the current issue of Cosmo for some grounding in current American cultural norms. There will always be the t*r's of the world -- and apparently her apologists as well -- people who will take offense from out of left field at God knows what. From what I can tell this is just the latest in a long and storied history of meltdowns worthy of any teenager. I was shocked to learn she's apparently in her 30's?!

In any event, at least try to inform yourselves before you squander any more of you time on this. Folks are couching their remarks within the context of broad cultural assumptions that do not bear up to even the most casual scrutiny.

drljefe

climber
El Presidio San Augustin del Tucson

Jan 23, 2013 - 01:46pm PT
word up bvb.

Back to the original" serious matter"...
Why you deny pad Tony?
happiegrrrl

...except that the majority of posting Supertopians who were against the thread were men.

climbing used to be a solid boys club, and women knew their place in it.
You mean like Bonnie Prudden and Jan Conn knew their place?

It's almost like lots of climbing women are threatened by physically beautiful women, especially those with extra weight in their upper body who don't climb.
Again, even though more men posted against that thread, you are focused on "fat women." Not the brightest star in the galaxy you, I have to think....
Cosmiccragsman

Trad climber
AKA Dwain, from Apple Valley, Ca. and Vegas!

Jan 23, 2013 - 02:09pm PT
What I find funny, or maybe it's me,
that Boobs are as controversial as Politics, Religion, guns,
and the Wings of Steel.

Edit
kaholatingtong

Trad climber
Nevada City

Jan 23, 2013 - 02:19pm PT
i find it rather comical too. us americans are a bunch of prudes.
LL LL

Sport climber
moving thru

Jan 23, 2013 - 02:29pm PT
Love your last comment, Largo :D

Donini, please don't sign off. (please, please, please and I rarely say please.) I love your wit and comments on ST. Plus I learn much about the outdoor world and climbing from them.

Finally, this particular Thread Title.....a serious matter.....maybe that's the matter.
Not so serious if people had real lives to live and contend with. Just sayin'.

Much ado about nada, imho. lynne
Klimmer

Mountain climber
San Diego

Jan 23, 2013 - 02:56pm PT
All I'm gonna say is you can't blame me for any of this ...

I had nothing to do with it.

I will say though, G-d made boobs very beautiful. I like them. They are meant to be liked.

King Salomon had a serious boob problem. Recall he had over 800 women, wives, girlfriends, concubines, and what have you. That's a lot of boobs.
graniteclimber

Trad climber
The Illuminati -- S.P.E.C.T.R.E. Division

Jan 23, 2013 - 03:07pm PT
It's lame to try to blame Anastasia.

Also, that pictures showing unclothed breasts are offensive to women is just one opinion, and I'm sure that they are offensive to some women (and some men), plenty of women (and men) do not share that opinion.

In fact many feminists believe that it is discriminatory for the unclothed female nipple to be labeled obscene while men (who also have nipples) are allowed to be topless in public. What's odd here is that it is OK for a women's breast to be exposed so long as the nipple is covered, but the nipples of men and women (pre-pregnancy) are almost identical!

I'm not sorry that Chris Mac deleted the thread. It had outlived its usefulness, but I'm not sorry he allowed it to be up either.

I see it as a sign of progress that the thread offended relatively few people and was allowed to be up for as long as it was.

Also, bravo to t*r for taking a stand for what she believed in. Lot's of people have nuked threads they didn't agree with in the past and were not banned. I don't know why t*r was.

Edit: This is a day for the record books. I'm in agreement with Klimmer on something!
locker

Social climber
state of Kumbaya...

Jan 23, 2013 - 03:18pm PT

Credit: locker

...

Dr.Sprock

Boulder climber
I'm James Brown, Bi-atch!

Jan 23, 2013 - 03:19pm PT
obscene?

no.

those kids laying on the floor, that is obscene.

(stole that from Hustler, remember the guys brains hanging out with the "this is obscene" quote?)

Anastasia is way cool, she was trying to lighten us up after a real bummer,

what is so wrong with that?

just use good taste when you post a boobs pic,

Walleye

climber
The Hot Kiss on the end of a Wet Fist

Jan 23, 2013 - 03:22pm PT

Credit: Walleye

Censored by Walleye for the more easily offended
Censored by Walleye for the more easily offended
Credit: Walleye

EDIT: FYI Walleye is not related to the Editor and Publisher of Hustler Magazine (unfortunately)
Jennie

Trad climber
Elk Creek, Idaho

Jan 23, 2013 - 03:33pm PT
I don't believe anyone is claiming breasts shouldn't be liked, Klimmer. I don't recall reading anything about Solomons concubines being put in public display or cavorting like ponies in the corral.

I can't speak for all negative responders to the B thread...I would suggest many found nudity being focused into a review and cavalcade, complete with howls, yelps and expletives distinctly distasteful.

As others have posted, artistic or incidental nudity won't be frowned on by most members... but the images with burlesque and strutting connotation should be kept on porn sites.
Dingus Milktoast

Gym climber
And every fool knows, a dog needs a home, and...

Jan 23, 2013 - 03:44pm PT
Burlesque???!!!1111

DMT
Dingus Milktoast

Gym climber
And every fool knows, a dog needs a home, and...

Jan 23, 2013 - 03:45pm PT

DMT
Dingus Milktoast

Gym climber
And every fool knows, a dog needs a home, and...

Jan 23, 2013 - 03:46pm PT

DMT
Dave Kos

Social climber
Temecula

Jan 23, 2013 - 03:51pm PT
This thread is gonna cause more confusion than a mouse in a burlesque show!

ps. I've been in that bar and seen the lovely Molly dance, on that very same bar as in the vid. Woot woot!

Oh... my.... god.....
GDavis

Social climber
SOL CAL

Jan 23, 2013 - 04:01pm PT
but the images with burlesque and strutting connotation should be kept on porn sites.

I think its up to people to not be as#@&%es and scare away people with sensitives, even though their sensitivities are born from unhealthy viewpoints on sexuality, that is just my opinion and I am not justified to make people feel uncomfortable, even if I think I am right.
Fossil climber

Trad climber
Atlin, B. C.

Jan 23, 2013 - 04:01pm PT
Take a sabbatical, Donini, but don't stay away. I like your posts. Maybe because I tend to agree with them.
Riley Wyna

Trad climber
A crack near you

Jan 23, 2013 - 04:05pm PT

Hilarious - the second funniest thing of all is that Loli would delete her self because of boobs. Have any of you been to Europe? Boobs are more common there than feet!! Every beach and swimming pool is topless and boobs are in every newspaper and magazine. lol...Boobs are to Europe what guns are to this dumbass country.

You have to laugh even harder about a few socialy illiterate woman getting their panties in a bunch about this ridiculous crap -woman who have never had relationships or who have had seriously f*#ked up divorces should be worrying about stable relationships in their own lives and trying to figure out the reasons for their own failed relationships or lack of relationship. Not whether a very intellegent and stable and married "climber" woman, such as Anastasia, posts up a boob thread or not..

America! they are just f*#king boobs

Jeepers what a bunch of uptight wingnuts!
I am actually fairy disturbed that some people do not know the difference between boobs and hard porn or a pedophile!! really? Your lines are that blurred and confused on the subject of the human form? The anatomy of the human body?

Reminds me of some of the religious prudes a guy can go out with sometimes, thinking they are reasonable girls, and the next thing ya know they are wanting you to stick a hot poker up their ass and choke them out and god knows what else ridiculous nonsense.
Or the Evangelical Preacher who by day is casting gays into hell and is secretly banging male meth addicts in a hotel room by night.

But the funniest thing of all is considering all the absolutely ridiculous drama TR has posted and been involved with over the years this has got to be the most ridiculous and hypocritical

Cause TR has posted her own boob pics!!! She would get drunk and send me pics of her boobs. And because I was involved in some drama with her, only on the phone thank goodness, I was in contact with many other people who also had had boob shots sent to them or been involved in more intimate and incredibly f*#ked up and dramatic ways - ask them? maybe they will post up!

All this is just f*#ked up drama that occurs when you get involved with emotionally and socially unstable people - you have all been drawn into a typhoon of drama that will never end.

And nobody close to TR is doing her any favors for enabling this behaviour.
As a guy who has worked as a nurse with large groups of woman for 20 years I can promise you this kind of silliness and drama is not tolerated. You pull weird social and human resources stuff/bullshit like this you are gone fast - I've seen it a 100 times. These folks do not know how to play or work with others. TR is not employable at the present time - i would bet my man boobs on it!

Maybe PTPT can post his story about just talking with TR when she worked in the Valley - he asked for her number and the next thing he knows she is crying about being underage to people? PTPT didn't know what hit him - and she wasn't even underage at the time.

Look at this shit! You have guys who posted a few boob pics being charged with pedophilia? Dumb asses talking about courts and police because of a few boob pics

Finally i have to laugh at the opinions of the right wing lunatics,
Pro god, pro gun, pro violence but anti-boob..lol
There is a recipe for a country you do not want to be apart of? - there is your recipe for America.

And Tony - seriously dude - stick to chem-trails and telling Ed Hartouni he doesn't know enough about Physics...Cause as usual you are way off.
treez

Trad climber
99827

Jan 23, 2013 - 04:07pm PT
That's funny, BVB!

It took me until way too late in life to understand that as soon as she mentions having gone to or wanting to go to Evergreen, I should RUN LIKE HELL!

Jan 23, 2013 - 04:57pm PT
Of course "God" approves, if there is a God.

There is a reason why men find women sexually attractive.

Genesis 9:7 "Now be fruitful and multiply, and repopulate the earth."

Song of Solomon 7:3 "Your two breasts are like two fawns, twins of a gazelle."

Song of Solomon 7:7-8 "Your stature is like a palm tree, and your breasts are like its clusters. I say I will climb the palm tree and lay hold of its fruit. Oh may your breasts be like clusters of the vine, and the scent of your breath like apples."
couchmaster

climber
pdx

Jan 23, 2013 - 05:06pm PT
Riley said:
"And nobody close to TR is doing her any favors for enabling this behaviour. As a guy who has worked as a nurse with large groups of woman for 20 years I can promise you this kind of silliness and drama is not tolerated. You pull weird social and human resources stuff/bullshit like this you are gone fast - I've seen it a 100 times. These folks do not know how to play or work with others. TR is not employable at the present time - i would bet my man boobs on it!"

I don't know how you would know that from a few posts on an internet forum Riley.

...And Dingus, if you really cared for t*r you would take the video of T*r's dancing nearly naked down.

Dingus Milktoast

Gym climber
And every fool knows, a dog needs a home, and...

Jan 23, 2013 - 05:07pm PT
I'll do better'n that and take some live video here in a coupla weeks, howzat?

DMT

ps. hopefully.
ncrockclimber

climber
The Desert Oven

Jan 23, 2013 - 05:43pm PT
This thread need some boobs and climbing!

photo by Dean Fidelman
photo by Dean Fidelman
Credit: ncrockclimber

I'm Rick James, Bitch

Social climber
Up in it and down on it

Jan 23, 2013 - 05:47pm PT
Riley says:
But the funniest thing of all is considering all the absolutely ridiculous drama TR has posted and been involved with over the years this has got to be the most ridiculous and hypocritical

Cause TR has posted her own boob pics!!! She would get drunk and send me pics of her boobs. And because I was involved in some drama with her, only on the phone thank goodness, I was in contact with many other people who also had had boob shots sent to them or been involved in more intimate and incredibly f*#ked up and dramatic ways - ask them? maybe they will post up!

BULLSH#T without pics. Post 'em up!
CIRJB!!!!!69
ncrockclimber

climber
The Desert Oven

Jan 23, 2013 - 05:51pm PT
Riley says:
But the funniest thing of all is considering all the absolutely ridiculous drama TR has posted and been involved with over the years this has got to be the most ridiculous and hypocritical

Cause TR has posted her own boob pics!!! She would get drunk and send me pics of her boobs. And because I was involved in some drama with her, only on the phone thank goodness, I was in contact with many other people who also had had boob shots sent to them or been involved in more intimate and incredibly f*#ked up and dramatic ways - ask them? maybe they will post up!

You just cannot make this sh#t up! Too funny. I am willing to bet money that no photos are posted, but just hearing about this cracks me up.
ncrockclimber

climber
The Desert Oven

Jan 23, 2013 - 05:57pm PT
Just in case I was not clear regarding the OP and the title of this thread, there was nothing "serious" about the original boob thread. You f*#king morons must live under rocks to think for a second that there was any child porn in that thread. Were some of the women "smaller" and younger looking than others? Yes. But to equate that with the exploitation of a minor and child porn is ludicrous. What is "serious" here is the need for you to get a life!

Here are some more boobs...

Something to make everyone smile.
Something to make everyone smile.
Credit: ncrockclimber

Captain...or Skully

climber

Jan 23, 2013 - 05:59pm PT
If there are any +1's, There's one for sure.
Gracias, ncrockclimber.
Riley Wyna

Trad climber
A crack near you

Jan 23, 2013 - 06:04pm PT
It's not few posts couch-master...it's thousands of posts and emails and hundred phone calls...and about 10 years...
I may not know u at all yet...but many of us are close friends and climbing partners
And know each other very well..

And I don't write anything to be mean, or do I say anyone is a bad person..
I would and do say the same thing to my own kids, or sisters, or myself....or a doc or nurse I work with if I am in charge of an ER..

I still like TR even if this pisses me off..

And I respect Dingus a lot for sticking up for TR...
But I got to speak up when others r attacked as well

Anyway....I'm done..
Klimmer

Mountain climber
San Diego

Jan 23, 2013 - 07:42pm PT
Wow, GC and I agree on something. Amazing.

When you read The Song of Solomon and other passages of the Good Book, you realize sex is a wonderful thing in marriage. G-d is not against sex at all in a marriage relationship. All parts of the human body are wonderful and meant for pleasure.

Genesis 1 (KJV)
[18] And the LORD God said, It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him an help meet for him.

...

[22] And the rib, which the LORD God had taken from man, made he a woman, and brought her unto the man.
[23] And Adam said, This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh: she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man.
[24] Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh.
[25] And they were both naked, the man and his wife, and were not ashamed.

...

Genesis 3 (KJV)
[16] Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee.

I realize the feminists are gonna have a stroke over Genesis 3:16. Ok, so rebuke that spirit of Lilith from you and get over it. It's the natural order of things since the fall. You can't change it. Ain't gonna happen. And when you do fight against the natural order, marriages and families are destroyed.

Abraham after losing Sara married young. King David married young. And yes King Solomon had many younger wives or concubines.

Man needs a mate that wants to keep up. No couch potatoes. Sex is an action sport. Lots of sex in marriage keeps the temple in condition and keeps one another healthy. Very true. Read the science studies.

Ghost

climber
A long way from where I started

Jan 23, 2013 - 08:01pm PT
This is a really strange place.

People post pictures of boobs, leading to some debate about appropriateness. Thread is deleted.

In any kind of sane world, that would be the end of it.

But this is Supertopo, and a disagreement about the appropriateness of some pictures of naked people has led Tony Bird to start this thread because he believes it was a distraction from the real issue of the day: that the kid who murdered the schoolchildren was a mind-controlled patsy in an event of "staged government terrorism."

And now it has brought Klimmer back out of retirement with his statement that while women might not like Genesis 3:16 (a section of his religious book), they'd better get over their dislike because "It's the natural order of things since the fall. You can't change it. Ain't gonna happen. And when you do fight against the natural order, marriages and families are destroyed." So what exactly is Genesis 3:16? Well I looked it up, an it seems to say that god wants women to suffer and be slaves to men.

“I will make your pains in childbearing very severe;
with painful labor you will give birth to children.
Your desire will be for your husband,
and he will rule over you.”

Yup it's more than just boobs. It's Supertopo. Home of climbers and crazies.
Cosmiccragsman

Jan 23, 2013 - 08:04pm PT
Just in case I was not clear regarding the OP and the title of this thread, there was nothing "serious" about the original boob thread. You f*#king morons must live under rocks to think for a second that there was any child porn in that thread. Were some of the women "smaller" and younger looking than others? Yes. But to equate that with the exploitation of a minor and child porn is ludicrous. What is "serious" here is the need for you to get a life!

Yep. Exactly how I feel although I attempted to be somewhat less visceral. +1,000.
Klimmer

Mountain climber
San Diego

Jan 23, 2013 - 08:14pm PT
Ghost,

You assume the natural order is about slavery. It's not. It's the way we are made and what we truly desire from the opposite sex in marriage.

Read the full article on Sex and the Bible. The New Covenant (NT) further clarifies it. It's a beautiful thing and what both men and women truly want. Woman do have a desire toward their husbands. They do want to be loved and cared for, like Christ loves the Church. Men love to love their wife, and they do cleave to them, love to care for them and protect them. The woman is a foundation that a man needs. Without that foundation many men feel lost. It's a wonderful balance. It's not slavery at all.

So then the part in Genesis 3:16 that says "Your desire will be for your husband, and he will rule over you,” was just a misprint? What they meant to say was "...and he shall drool over you," but the dude doing the typesetting was careless and somehow it came out "...and he shall rule over you?"

That seems pretty clear to me. "He shall rule over you" is pretty clearly "Wife is a slave."

If you want to live in a world where men "rule over" their wives, that's great. But it's not the world that most people want to live in.
NoTokeRedKneck

"Third, the description in this passage of the future relationship between Adam and Eve is about ‘alienation and conflict’ (Woolvard & Zuck, c. 1983–c. 1985). ‘The marriage ordinance continues, but is frustrated by the battle of the sexes.’ (Whitlock & Sproul, 1997) The whole message of the New Testament is one of reconciliation and unity, including those of the marriage relationship. To understand the consequences of Adam and Eve’s sin, in respect to their relationship with each other, as a command of God, would mean that this dimension of human relationships would be excluded from the gospel of Jesus Christ. As Richards (1997) points out, ‘Male dominance in the family is a consequence of sin. Why perpetuate it in the Christian home?’ Perry Yoder (1975) makes a similar point:

... while [Genesis] chapter 3 serves as an explanation for the less than ideal state of affairs that may now exist, it does not condone or pardon it. On the contrary, concessions or inadequate realizations of God’s will in terms of creation are to be challenged. (pp. 10–11 cited in Swartley 1983, p. 157)
If we persist in perpetuating these distorted types of relationships which are the result of the Fall, it is a clear message that we want to avoid allowing the gospel to teach us the proper Christian relationship between men and women.

Fourth, even if it is insisted by some that all of these are curses imposed by God, God immediately institutes a plan to reverse these curses. Apart from the implicit promises of a Saviour in verse 15, Abram is promised that all the nations of the earth will be blessed (the opposite of a curse!) through him (12:3).

We see the ultimate fulfilment and reversal of these consequence with the arrival of Christ. In Romans 5:21, Paul celebrates God’s wonderful kindness which rules instead of sin and the death it brought. As a result, sin’s power is broken (Rom. 6:1ff.) and the consequences of sin that we suffer begin to be undermined until they are completely eradicated at the Second Coming of Christ.

Whereas Genesis speaks of the husband ruling the wife, Paul commands mutual submission as the principle of all relationships in the Christian community, including marriage: ‘...you will submit to one another out of reverence for Christ’ (Eph. 5:21, NLT). Some argue that, in the following verses, Paul explicitly requires women to submit to their husbands and that the man is to rule her. However, it is essential to read the subsequent verses within the framework of the mutual submission of verse 21. In this verse, Paul makes a principle explicit using the term ‘mutual submission’. If we go on and make the specific applications that Paul makes deny this explicit principle, then we are twisting the Scripture to suit our own agendas. Whatever Paul has advised in the following verses must be seen as the application of the principle of mutual submission in the context of Paul’s time.

The contrast between the old and the new is clearly articulated by Redmacher (1997):

The word desire [in Genesis 3:16] can also mean "an attempt to usurp or control" as in [Genesis] 4:7. We can paraphrase the last two lines of this verse this way: "You will now have a tendency to dominate your husband, and he will have the tendency to act as a tyrant over you." The battle of the sexes has begun. Each strives for control and neither lives in the best interest of the other (see Phil. 2:3, 4). The antidote is in the restoration of mutual respect and dignity through Jesus Christ (see Eph. 5:21–33).
The motivation for this mutual respect is reverence for Christ (Eph. 5:21). Christ makes all the difference in relationships, including those between male and female, because ‘[t]here is no longer ... male or female. For you are all Christians—you are one in Christ Jesus.’ (Gal. 3:28, nlt) The fact that Paul makes reverence for Christ the centre of relationships, resulting in mutual submission, means the evil of the husband ruling the wife is reversed. Evans (1983) summarises the centrality of Christ in restoring our broken relationships: ‘It is only ‘in Christ’ that the broken relationship between man and woman, as that between God and Man, can fully and permanently be restored’ (p. 21).

The model for Christian relationships is most clearly and extensively articulated in Ephesians 5–6. We need to listen carefully to these passages of Scripture, for they help us to keep the consequences of Genesis in perspective. Fraser & Fraser (1975) summarise the difference that Jesus’ message makes to the relationship between husband and wife:

What was lost in the fall, expressed in Genesis 3:16 as the wife’s loss of equality in a functional subordination to her husband, Jesus intends to restore. The curse is rescinded by grace, and she is placed on the same level as her husband that she might be joint-heir with him in the responsibilities and grace of life (1 Peter 3:7).... The husband and wife are to be one in love and mutual subjection to each other. It would be difficult to find any norm for marriage as permanently threatening to all traditional marriage structures as that! (p. 18 cited in Swartley 1983, p. 265)
Christ came to reverse the consequences of the Fall. This means that we must stop using Genesis 3:16 to legitimate male dominance and tyranny over women, even if this is legitimised by saying that it is done in love. It is for freedom that Christ has set us free! Women should not allow men to place them back under the yoke that Christ has come to remove (Galatians 5:1).

The heart of the matter

Surely it has to be asked: Why is it that men (in particular) are so keen to argue that women should be submissive? If God has identified the tendency to rule as part of the consequences of sin, then we surely should ask ourselves whether, at the heart of the traditional interpretations of the Genesis story is a lust for power and domination. Power is seductive and easy to legitimate with religious arguments. But if Christ is our model for all of life, then we have no greater reason for an attitude of service and submission by both people in a marriage. It is in this way that marriages can witness to the radical change that has come with the arrival of Jesus Christ."
Reilly

Jan 23, 2013 - 09:40pm PT
Klimmer, you can't understand the OT or the NT without understanding that it was conceived of and written quite some time ago in a world incredibly different culturally from our own. You can take those words from the Bible and try to defend them as something sacrosanct by twisting them to your own ideal in this culture and this time but it doesn't change their meaning.
bvb

Social climber
flagstaff arizona

Jan 23, 2013 - 09:41pm PT
Ah, I see Klimmer has arrived with his standard-issue 5,000 word cut-n-pastes that we all scroll right through without so much as a glance. Just a matter of time before Delusionsmeller chimes in.
MisterE

Social climber

Jan 23, 2013 - 09:44pm PT
delusionsmeller

POW! The American Legend scores a direct hit.
Cosmiccragsman

Trad climber
AKA Dwain, from Apple Valley, Ca. and Vegas!

Jan 23, 2013 - 09:46pm PT
It's about time you were SERIOUS, Locker!!!

Edit
ncrockclimber

climber
The Desert Oven

Jan 23, 2013 - 09:46pm PT
For some reason I think that this video is an appropriate commentary for this "serious matter."

bvb

Social climber
flagstaff arizona

Jan 23, 2013 - 09:48pm PT
I was serious once. I met this guy named Roebuck and we started a business. Great catalog, we sold a lot of schwag.

Jan 23, 2013 - 09:53pm PT
The word of G-d does indeed cut to the marrow like a two edged sword. Some can take it and some can't, but it will never go away.

The Heavens and the Earth will pass away but his word is forever, eternal.

The original intent was to show sex in marriage, good sex, great sex is of G-d. Also G-d does build into men and women a strong desire for the other sex. That's of G-d also. The word of G-d calls that " natural affection."
locker

Jan 24, 2013 - 07:19am PT
klimmer, you're misquoting the bible to prove your private point, a common abuse in the history of "scripture". every time i've ever heard it, it was "heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away."

what i get from this is: 1) big ego trip for jesus; 2) wait a minute--heaven's gonna pass away? you mean, we're not gonna go to heaven and live forever? maybe not such good deal after all; 3) it's just another biblical contradiction. norton's gonna be all over it.

of course, as you say, grammar and translation are important. for example, i've been told it's really, "thou shalt not murder," not "thou shalt not kill". opens quite a door, doesn't it? martin luther has assured us that, if a soldier dies on the battlefield, it is the will of god.

another thing, klimmer, very important at this stage in your career. if your wife and you have split up, you're just gonna have to remain celibate for the rest of your life, or at least until, and if, she straightens out and comes back to you. god was very serious about that "until-death-do-us-part" business. you're gonna havta carry the torch, maybe not for the old lady as much as for the integrity of your program. remember this terrible pronouncement:

The word of G-d does indeed cut to the marrow like a two edged sword. Some can take it and some can't, but it will never go away.

let me warn you, you're gonna have all kindsa ministers and/or priests figuring out loopholes so's you can try again with someone prettier, younger, and readily adaptible to an old f*#k with a house and a job. these guys are dodging for your dimes. even though they're wearing the cloth of the lord, they're doing the work of the devil. a vow's a vow, brother. get used to cold showers.

and what's with this "G-d" stuff? and in the same paragraph as "sex". doesn't win you any brownie points. god could well be pissed at you for leaving the vowel out. the hebrews did that too, and lookit what happened to them--given one of the worst patches of territory in the mideast and told it was "the promised land", kicked the heck outa egypt, which really had the choice real estate, and they didn't even get a desert full of oil, the bonus for faith in allah. and whatever happened to yahweh and elohim? could it be that god has an identity crisis? right around that corner, i'll bet you find a process theologian.
TwistedCrank

Jan 24, 2013 - 09:42am PT
klimmer, you're misquoting the bible to prove your private point, a common abuse in the history of "scripture". every time i've ever heard it, it was "heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away."

what i get from this is: 1) big ego trip for jesus; 2) wait a minute--heaven's gonna pass away? you mean, we're not gonna go to heaven and live forever? maybe not such good deal after all; 3) it's just another biblical contradiction. norton's gonna be all over it.

of course, as you say, grammar and translation are important. for example, i've been told it's really, "thou shalt not murder," not "thou shalt not kill". opens quite a door, doesn't it? martin luther has assured us that, if a soldier dies on the battlefield, it is the will of god.

another thing, klimmer, very important at this stage in your career. if your wife and you have split up, you're just gonna have to remain celibate for the rest of your life, or at least until, and if, she straightens out and comes back to you. god was very serious about that "until-death-do-us-part" business. you're gonna havta carry the torch, maybe not for the old lady as much as for the integrity of your program. remember this terrible pronouncement:

The word of G-d does indeed cut to the marrow like a two edged sword. Some can take it and some can't, but it will never go away.

let me warn you, you're gonna have all kindsa ministers and/or priests figuring out loopholes so's you can try again with someone prettier, younger, and readily adaptible to an old f*#k with a house and a job. these guys are dodging for your dimes. even though they're wearing the cloth of the lord, they're doing the work of the devil. a vow's a vow, brother. get used to cold showers.

and what's with this "G-d" stuff? and in the same paragraph as "sex". doesn't win you any brownie points. god could well be pissed at you for leaving the vowel out. the hebrews did that too, and lookit what happened to them--given one of the worst patches of territory in the mideast and told it was "the promised land", kicked the heck outa egypt, which really had the choice real estate, and they didn't even get a desert full of oil, the bonus for faith in allah. and whatever happened to yahweh and elohim? could it be that god has an identity crisis? right around that corner, i'll bet you find a process theologian.

Tony, Tony, Tony ...

You have lots of questions and misstatements. May I advise you to talk with a Messianic Judaic Rabbi and attend a Messianic Synagogue as I have been. I have learned leaps and bounds and things have been carefully clarified concerning things I was in error over. You have to know The Old Covenant (OT) and The New Covenant (NT) really, really well. Most Christians in mainstream Christendom do not. They don't have the Hebrew and Judaic understanding. The Bible both OT and NT is Jewish. The Prophets are Jewish. Our Messiah is Jewish. The Disciples and the Messianic Rabbis are Jewish. Our faith is Jewish. I now understand that. My spiritual eyes are much more open.

I was only paraphrasing, not quoting. There are at least 10 different Heavens according to Hebraic scripture and Holy writings. The atmosphere "Heaven" above our heads is in one. Outer-space is another. The Heavens where Hashem Adonai Elohim resides is separated into multiple levels. Context Tony. The Universe as we know it, whether you take the scientific view "The Big Rip" or whether you listen to Adonai, it will be destroyed. But with Adonai it will be recreated new. We have that promise.

another thing, klimmer, very important at this stage in your career. if your wife and you have split up, you're just gonna have to remain celibate for the rest of your life, or at least until, and if, she straightens out and comes back to you. god was very serious about that "until-death-do-us-part" business. you're gonna havta carry the torch, maybe not for the old lady as much as for the integrity of your program. remember this terrible pronouncement:

The word of G-d does indeed cut to the marrow like a two edged sword. Some can take it and some can't, but it will never go away.

I will have to revisit the divorce thread. I will have to clarify things better at the end there. I thought that was it too. Once married, you are married for life until death do you part. I understand better now. There is a "Pauline Privilege" that applies to believers. You are not to leave, separate permanently, put away, or divorce your spouse as a believer, as a Christian, or as a Messianic Jew or Gentile. Because marriage is for life. But what if your spouse leaves you? Read 1 Corinthians 7 really, really carefully. If you are a believer and your spouse leaves you, or divorces you, you are free to remarry, but only another believer. They broke the marriage covenant not you. Rabbi Shaul (Paul) was a married Rabbi and a member of the Sanhedrin (you have to be married to be a member of the Sanhedrin). When he came to know Yeshua HaMashiach, Jesus The Christ, he lost all and he says so, including losing his wife who was more than likely a devout Jew, of Judaic faith. He clearly says in the NT that he is free to remarry another believer, a sister in the Lord if he chooses to. He chose to remain single and not to remarry. Everyone has different gifts. Some have the gift of singleness, some do not. I don't like being alone. I need a helpmate.

I'm not divorcing my wife. She wants to divorce me. When our finances are taken care of, I have to let her go as 1 Corinthians 7 says to do. I have to do all that I can do to save our marriage, but if she still wants to divorce, then I have to let her go. Read 1 Corinthians 7.

I'll answer more later ...
bvb

Social climber
flagstaff arizona

Jan 24, 2013 - 10:28am PT
Hey Klimmer, the Bartlett character poses some interesting questions in this clip that have been gnawing at me for decades. Could you get back to me and clue me in? Thanks!

rectorsquid

climber
Lake Tahoe

Jan 24, 2013 - 10:32am PT
Funny. Boobs are porn? Just try to tell someone that on a beach in France. And then call the gendarme and try to get every single guy arrested for accessing such porn.

People look at stuff they like; trees, wild animals, boobs, the bible. It's a fact of life.

Porn. That's a laugh. It's all porn. Dating a pretty girl is porn unless you're blind. Unless you have hands and then it's what, assault?

Jan 24, 2013 - 11:31am PT
Fair Alert: I intend to begin posting more images I find online to balance out the boob ones in these threads.

FWIW, I am NOT against the female body. I saw every image in the Boobs thread, and though there were some images which I would consider art, the majority were the type one finds on those sites that give free images of pretty soft content which include links to get to more graphic stuff(porn). "Gateway" imagery, as it were.

I found some of the texty drooling a little creepy, and also thought that including images out of context to be creepy(the thread was CLEARLY about breasts as a sexual organ, and to post breast-feeding baby pictures in that context was - to me -creepy. I also found the "u

wow that whole post and scrolling through it felt like taking a really warped and surreal trip through some alternate dimension of time, space, and the universe where you would be moving really fast through some crack in some law of physics and the chatter would be flying by at very high speeds, all happening at once, but all differentiated from one another too, all at the same time...

Jan 25, 2013 - 12:09am PT
First of all Ken... I was actually gone for eleven days in the mountains where everyone should be going "often." I was not here for the drama so I have no idea what the heck happened and honestly am glad since the subject matter was in humor. Seams that it doesn't matter if it is about guns, politics, bolts, boobs, etc. Seams ST Folks will beat each other up with anything.

Two... I did not trivialize, mistreat or name call anyone. I did not post anything rude or condescending, therefore I will not take responsibility for that. If someone did, it shows their idiocy.

Three... Yes, this drama is stupid. People who twist things into ugliness are stupid and yes... That is juvenile. If I had been around, I would have deleted the thread for Chris Mac myself.

Such silliness... Very astounding.

Meow Now

Trad climber
Emerald City

Jan 25, 2013 - 12:09am PT
Why did all those women click on a thread knowing its content would severely offend them? That is what I just can't wrap my head around. Drama! Oh, yes, boobs have never been shown on ST prior to Anastasia's thread. Time to move on from this nonsense bacause it's really not that big of a deal...
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca

Jan 25, 2013 - 12:15am PT
Great to hear, meow, that you will not be clicking on my thread celebrating female castration. It's so nice to know that you support anything that you don't want to know about.

I think that slavery can be fun, too. Sorry you won't be reading about it. The volunteer work I've done in trying to eradicate slavery is important, at least I think so. You don't, I guess, because by keeping it off your screen, for you, it doesn't exist.

Others don't take your view of what happens in a community, but it is large enough for those who care, and those who don't.
Meow Now

Trad climber
Emerald City

Jan 25, 2013 - 12:16am PT
Ken, please calm down. You need to breathe... The issue is in regards to a thread posted BOOBS... Period. Dont get off subject.

And Ken, please, stay away from European beaches. We all run around with no tops... I would not want you to have a nervous breakdown or anything while on vacation.

Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca

Jan 25, 2013 - 12:22am PT
Two... I did not trivialize, mistreat or name call anyone. I did not post anything rude or condescending, therefore I will not take responsibility for that. If someone did, it shows their idiocy.

Actually, Anastasia, I think you are trivializing.

You created a thread that went in a bad direction. It caused people to quit in a fashion that seems unprecedented.

You now state it wasn't your intent (which I believe), and that it's not your fault (which is mostly true), so it doesn't matter and isn't important. Even though there are hundreds of posts on the issue at this point.

That is the definition of trivializing.

triv·i·al·ize
/ˈtrivēəˌlīz/
Verb
Make (something) seem less important, significant, or complex than it really is
Anastasia

climber
InLOVEwithAris.

Jan 25, 2013 - 12:23am PT
Ken???

WTF is castration having to do with boobs? I don't get the connection and... Seriously, are topless female sunbathers needing to be saved from slavery?

This has no logic. None... Actually kind of funny if you think about it.
You objectify women as being without free will, as being helpless victims.

I and my kind are not helpless, we are not victims and we have free will. If we choose to use our bodies for gains, what makes it different from a male body builder, a male model? Saying women are being victimized IS sexist.

Anyway... I'm done and yes... I'll stick to my original view, this is STUPID.

STUPID fights like this is what drive people away. Heck, I am just another woman being bashed. Are you guys targeting us gals or is this just part of the random STUPID.
Meow Now

Trad climber
Emerald City

Jan 25, 2013 - 12:27am PT
+++++2 for Anastasia...

Ken, You have some serious issues...don't know how else to define your lack of logic.
Ken M

concrete thinking
Psychiatry Cognition that reflects experience, rather than abstraction, typical of those who are unable to generalize

You don't appear to understand the point of my post, which is in response to your post that "you don't understand".

I take it that you actually do understand, but are using that phraseology to avoid discussing the issue directly. People often do that when they feel inadequate to the task. I have no idea if that applies to you in this situation.

Maybe you don't understand. Why would someone take a look into a thread that upsets them, then take an action about it?

Because some people care how others are treated. some care how THEY are treated.

I appreciate that you aren't good with abstract thoughts, but how would you respond to a thread that had a title "Meow is sh*t?" Surely, there would be a bunch of upsetting stuff in there, and you are so mature as to ignore it. But not too many people would. By the way, I would not be tolerant of such a thread about you.

I hope this explains, in a clear fashion, why some people who belong to this community are somewhat intolerant to class disparagement of others in the community.
Fletcher

Trad climber
The great state of advaita

Jan 25, 2013 - 12:39am PT
Good lord, this has taken me two bowls of popcorn to read through!

Anastasia, love how you can cut directly through the crap and get to the gist of it all! Good on ya. Done with style and a healthy sense of humor (self and otherwise)! As always. :-)

Anyway, I just happened to come across a video that pretty much sums up (if that is possible) how these wacky threads seem to always end up:

Hee hee!

Anastasia has expressed the key element: go do something outside (the weather or season is no excuse especially fer all you tough guys!), preferably for extended periods of time. And take a look in the mirror and have a good laugh. I do it all the time!

Love y'all all!

Eric
GDavis

Social climber
SOL CAL

Jan 25, 2013 - 12:42am PT
Ken M I would check with your doctor, you are definitely a candidate for TRT.
Anastasia

climber
InLOVEwithAris.

Jan 25, 2013 - 12:44am PT
So I am inadequate?

Now YOU are being condescending and exactly the kind of person you claim to be trying to save us from.

Don't try to twist this into something of "you don't get my higher thinking" or you must be avoiding the subject.

I simply got you beat.

AFS

P.S.

You really are being very rude. Plus by disrespecting my intelligence... Seriously, what kind of woman's rights activist are you if YOU can Treat Me, a Female like a small stupid child? Your treatment of ME again shows that you have no understanding of respecting others that you are preaching. Try it yourself... Heck, try it on me before expecting others to take your high and mighty preaching of being sensitive seriously.
GDavis

Social climber
SOL CAL

Jan 25, 2013 - 12:49am PT
It's OK Ana, some people are really just crazy and you can't change them. 70 more years on this planet I don't suffer fools :) so for me its all sex, drugs and rock... well mostly just rock.*

*from a 5.10 ad :D
John M

climber

Jan 25, 2013 - 12:59am PT
So I am inadequate?

I don't believe he was addressing you Anastasia. I believe he was addressing meow now. This post.

Why did all those women click on a thread knowing its content would severely offend them? That is what I just can't wrap my head around. Drama! Oh, yes, boobs have never been shown on ST prior to Anastasia's thread. Time to move on from this nonsense bacause it's really not that big of a deal...

Ken, it would be a good idea if you addressed your post to who you are responding to.
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca

Jan 25, 2013 - 01:00am PT
Ken???

WTF is castration having to do with boobs? I don't get the connection and... Seriously, are topless female sunbathers needing to be saved from slavery?

This has no logic. None... Actually kind of funny if you think about it.
You objectify women as being without free will, as being helpless victims.

I and my kind are not helpless, we are not victims and we have free will. If we choose to use our bodies for gains, what makes it different from a male body builder, a male model? Saying women are being victimized IS sexist.

Anastasia,

see my previous quote about "concrete thinking" in reference to abstract example. (that was NOT directed to you or what you were saying.)

I'm a white male. In my experiences, I've encountered women who like being called whores (who are not in that occupation), blacks that like being called n*ggers, jews that think it is funny being called kik*s, etc.
Does that give me license to refer to those groups that way? Does it excuse me from saying something when that is how those groups are referred to?

Am I victimizing women when I stand with women who object to being called whores? Am I victimizing blacks and jews when I stand with them against those who use those terms?

In this situation, I am standing with at least two women who were willing to give up their membership over what they perceived as treatment of women.
I'm not sure that I see how that victimizes you?

I don't know how you act when your friends are victimized, and attacked. I can't say that I can honestly call t*r and Lolli friends, having never met either. But they are members of a community to which I belong who I earnestly believe feel wronged. I have certainly seen both savaged in the aftermath. It is particularly hard to understand in the case of Lolli, who I"ve never seen say mean words to anyone, and made no fuss in this matter, but just quietly slipped away without so much as a statement. I stand with them.

My posts have basically been along the lines of explanation, interpretation, and thoughts about why people might take offense to the "boobs" thread. As a result, I've been rather aggressively reprimanded, as though I have no right to say anything.

I'm surprised that you make the argument that basically amounts to "being a man, you've no right to make statements about abuse of women". Well, if that's so, since you're not a child, you've no right to make a statement about child abuse...or about men, blacks, jews, or the poor. I doubt that you think that.

You are entitled to have your opinion about what consists of abuse and exploitation of women. However, you do not represent all women, and you do not have the right to dismiss the complaints of other women, simply because you are a woman.

You may choose not to stand with women who feel violated, and dismiss them (trivialize them), as is your right.

I stand with them.
Anastasia

climber
InLOVEwithAris.

Jan 25, 2013 - 01:06am PT
How does that make it better? Claiming either I or someone else incapable of understanding. That isn't nice.

I think what we should do is BE NICE! You know, what five year olds are taught in kindergarten. Try it. Might Improve not only the forum, it will improve one's life.

You don't have to stand for this or that... How the heck did this get so twisted into some kind of political stance. Really sad... Throwing mud on each other for what? Really? This? Too bad that folks like killing nice fun things by making them ugly this way. All that arguing for such silly stuff and to keep it up! Wow... Astounding.

I'm done.
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca

Jan 25, 2013 - 01:15am PT
You really are being very rude. Plus by disrespecting my intelligence... Seriously, what kind of woman's rights activist are you if YOU can Treat Me, a Female like a small stupid child? Your treatment of ME again shows that you have no understanding of respecting others that you are preaching. Try it yourself... Heck, try it on me before expecting others to take your high and mighty preaching of being sensitive seriously.

Anastasia, I'm not sure that I'm disrespecting your intelligence by pointing out that you have TOTALLY missed the point of my thread by using a type of common logic that leads you down a road of thinking that misinterprets what another is writing.

I'm the kind of women's rights activist that believes in treating women EQUALLY. That means you don't get treated politely, when you disrespect other members, such as t*r and Lolli. You get treated the same as would Ron. If, in the process of standing with them, I criticize you, you then take that as an attack on women? You are the appointed representative of all women, and any criticism of you is an attack on women generally?

Isn't that what you want? Equal treatment? Actually, I'm not sure that you can handle it. I'm not talking about "women", I'm talking about YOU. If you look around, Ron has had to endure FAR more worse language and verbiage from me, than you are getting.

John, I think I'd placed the name of the person I was addressing in each post, which I think is a good idea. Maybe you were pointing that out.....
Anastasia

climber
InLOVEwithAris.

Jan 25, 2013 - 01:20am PT
Wow, condescending toward me just to make sure... You are that threatened of me that you need to put me down AGAIN?

Don't kid yourself. The reason you won't treat me equally is because you can't reach it.

Anyway, kid has fallen asleep. Now I can join him.

Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca

Jan 25, 2013 - 01:26am PT
How does that make it better? Claiming either I or someone else incapable of understanding. That isn't nice.

However, Anastasia, you might consider that the invective that you thought was directed at you as example of how I don't understand how I am attacking women.......was actually directed at a man....then your allegation of my misogynistic tendencies might have been a *smidgen* overstated.

I think what we should do is BE NICE! You know, what five year olds are taught in kindergarten. Try it. Might Improve not only the forum, it will improve one's life.

You don't have to stand for this or that... How the heck did this get so twisted into some kind of political stance. Really sad... Too bad that folks like killing nice fun things this way. All that arguing for such silly stuff and to keep it up! Wow... Astounding.

Well, that's a good concept. In theory.

But at least two people have been deeply hurt. enough to quit. Then on top of that, in discussing it, they have both been rather savaged, where they have no opportunity to even defend themselves. Frankly, I think attacking them in that situation is rather cowardly.

You response, to our hurting friends, is rather like "well, lets forget that and them, and lets have a nice fun party." and why do folks like killing nice fun things this way?

I love to have fun, and enjoy doing fun things. But not all things are nice fun things.
RyanD

climber
Squamish

Jan 25, 2013 - 01:35am PT
I know this thread is titled "a serious matter" but Ken you take supertopos way too seriously & need to chill out man, maybe the ppl who quit did so because they felt they were taking it too seriously & needed to step away. It's ok to step away, it's just the f*#king Internet, real life is still happening out there. As someone who is just reading through this latest garbage I say this in the nicest way- you are not going to do yourself any favors or receive any sort of redemption by posting any more arguments here. Your obviously a smart dude but right now ur coming off as the guy who has lost his sh#t, time to reel it in. If you do that, this thread will hopefully fall into the archives where it belongs. Good luck. It's gnarly in super-OT land where u guys/gals hang out.
Jennie

Trad climber
Elk Creek, Idaho

Jan 25, 2013 - 01:37am PT
Hi Anastasia,

I don’t believe there were many clear-cut postings blaming you. I didn’t read all the threads that clocked in on the topic…there were several. A portion of us felt the breast thread ultimately ripened into something ridiculously excessive and some felt was outrageous.

I wouldn’t take the rumpus and row as a categorical bill of indictment toward you.

The prudes vs. perverts wrangling became heated but it’s still January …hopefully T*R will be welcomed back and ST will survive this without anyone being labeled miscreant or assigned long-time Rascal Status. Best wishes…
Fluoride

Trad climber
West Los Angeles, CA

Jan 25, 2013 - 02:32am PT
Jennie, TR did what she did then when she got banned came back with a new handle to keep causing problems.

Her actions came back to haunt her.

While I love Ana, I didn't agree with AF's thread and knew it would turn into crap in the long run. But I simply stayed away from it. No thoughts, no comments.

TR didn't and went nuts on it. If you don't agree with it, stay away from it like I did. TR couldn't help herself.
slayton

Trad climber
Here and There

Jan 25, 2013 - 04:36am PT
So Ken, just as a point of clarity, you seem upset that two members of this forum are now gone. Do you have any personal insight or first hand knowledge of why Lolli jumped ship? From what I have seen she simply walked away and left a blank slate. Having seen nothing else it's hard for me to give reason to that without jumping to conclusions. I do recall seeing a post from someone that received a PM from her stating that it was for personal reasons. I'll try to find it later.

As far as T*R goes, obviously she found offense and took action. She was then banned for that action.

If you're basing your outrage and criteria on two individuals of this forum, one of which who's leaving seems to be an unknown and the other very well known, well, so be it, even if I think maybe you're getting a bit ahead of yourself.
sullly

Trad climber

Jan 25, 2013 - 05:17am PT
I complained because I am a CA credentialed public high school teacher who did not think another CA credentialed public high school teacher should be posting a naked torso shot of herself. As a woman, as a teacher, and as a former CTA union rep. I was offended.

justthemaid

climber
Jim Henson's Basement

Jan 25, 2013 - 05:48am PT
I've been trying to stay out of this stupid crap but I gotta back up my girl Anastasia on this one.

+1 for Slayton's comment there as well.

Just gotta say... I'm TOTALLY sick of you morons SPECULATING about Lolli quitting over the boob-thread and posting it as fact. You people don't know sh#t and have ZERO clue why she left so unless you can produce an email verifying it, I'd quit perpetrating that stupid rumor. I suspect it was more about being tired of listening to vicious meannie-whiners fight constantly but that's my personal speculation.

Jan 25, 2013 - 06:30am PT
I was actually gone for eleven days in the mountains where everyone should be going "often." I was not here for the drama so I have no idea what the heck happened and honestly am glad since the subject matter was in humor.

Such a rad statement to wake up, have coffee and see.
Mark Hudon

Trad climber
Hood River, OR

Jan 25, 2013 - 06:59am PT
Boobs are great and boobs are good, but boobs aren't that great and boobs aren't that good. Certainly not that good or bad to have caused all of this.
Randisi

Social climber
Dalian, Liaoning

Jan 25, 2013 - 07:01am PT
A serious matter?

Seriously, you guys need to get out of Berkeley and see the world once in a while.
dirtbag

climber

Jan 25, 2013 - 07:15am PT
I think there should be no threads--ever--that offend anyone.
The Warbler

climber
the edge of America

Jan 25, 2013 - 07:43am PT
Certainly not that good or bad to have caused all of this.

Having not yet been to Europe, how do men respond to all the topless women at the beach?

Do they walk with another guy friend behind them and make hand gestures as to how they'd like to take some action like grabbing the breasts and playing with them? Or make the "I've got a massive boner" hand signal?

I am thinking there are probably a few who do, but probably most don't. So, I think that when people are comparing the boobs thread to beaches in europe, it is not an accurate comparison.

That's another thing that really pisses me off. People who put fake arguments into a conversation. Reasonable people don't expect others to "cheat" when it comes to debate, and are usually taken off guard, and don't immediately respond because it does that. And so the one who throws the garbage statement in believes he has won a point.

Not so.

Or, the person hearing that argument is forced to stop a rational debate to go off with them on their illogical tangent which really amounts to poor sportsmanship at the least. I see it as very low quality debating style; a sign of a mind not too keen.

Where I live, there is a swimming and sunbathing area which has a nude section. If a guy sits there gaping at a woman, he is going to be asked by the others to stop or get the hell out. The area actually also has a pretty good number of gay men there, and there have been times when people did walk into the woods unexpectedly and find some pretty serious(a joke with the thread title...) stuff going down(literally). But again, if a guy started rubbing his crotch in the sunbathing area as he watched another guy - that would be considered inappropriate.
SCseagoat

Trad climber
Santa Cruz

Jan 25, 2013 - 08:08am PT
if a guy started rubbing his crotch in the sunbathing area

Advantage or Frontline should take care of it.
Maybe I'm on the wrong thread????

Susan
I'm Rick James, Bitch

Social climber
Up in it and down on it

Jan 25, 2013 - 08:29am PT
Where I live, there is a swimming and sunbathing area which has a nude section. If a guy sits there gaping at a woman, he is going to be asked by the others to stop or get the hell out. The area actually also has a pretty good number of gay men there, and there have been times when people did walk into the woods unexpectedly and find some pretty serious(a joke with the thread title...) stuff going down(literally). But again, if a guy started rubbing his crotch in the sunbathing area as he watched another guy - that would be considered inappropriate.

Lordy Lordy, my how the Pit has changed!
CIRJB!!!!!!!!(*)(*)
locker

Social climber
state of Kumbaya...

Jan 25, 2013 - 08:53am PT

+1 for Anastasia!!!...

Young lady, you often amaze me...

;-)

justthemaid

climber
Jim Henson's Basement

Jan 25, 2013 - 09:04am PT
Lordy Lordy, my how the Pit has changed!

HAHAHAHAHA!!!
Largo

Sport climber
The Big Wide Open Face

Jan 25, 2013 - 09:13am PT
As a woman, as a teacher, and as a former CTA union rep. I was offended.

I'd be interested in hearing what experiences you had or what thinking process you go through to get "offended" about what someone else posts on a niche site like this. Not saying that you don't have a right to be offended. You have every right, IMO, and I'l fight for your right to voice your opinion here and elsewhere. But I'm curious, in this case, how that process works, and what stories you tell yourself in terms of what said photo (of A. with the nude torso) "means" to you and others.

JL
Anastasia

climber
InLOVEwithAris.

Jan 25, 2013 - 09:21am PT
Sully has a very good point yet it missed a little one... I didn't and never would post a picture of myself "nude or partially nude." My husband suggested that one HE posted was me but seriously folks, it wasn't. You folks give me way too much credit. Plus I won't chase the husband with a broom over his antics. He's allowed to be silly, and no... I am not offended with his idea of boobs. He sees them at work all the time and the more deformed the more he studies them. It's not kinky when it's part of his job.

I also never posted nude pictures, All my posts were covered up. The boys did which I think many can proudly claim is their own work.

As for things going sour, I wasn't around but I am happy that ST nuked the thread because I would happily have done it myself. A joke turned bad, I totally agree. Why didn't I nuke it earlier, well... Bill was enjoying it so I let him and others have their fun. Was it so evil? I'll let Hugh Hefner and folks like the Victoria Secret Models explain it. I mean I've seen a Million Dollar bra but nothing else comparable for the boys. Some things just are.

As for this site... I seriously don't worry about kids here. Well, except for the Old ones and yes, this includes myself.
Jebus H Bomz

climber
Reno, Nuh VAAAA duh

Jan 25, 2013 - 09:23am PT
You gotta keep a reign on them boobs. The uterus, that's an area that needs a good watching over too.

I see a lot I don't like here. I usually don't click on it, or I give the malfactors the hell I think they deserve. Beyond speaking my mind, farbeit for me to moderate free human beings who happen to see the world through a different lens (within reason, of course).

As to people quitting or not quitting over this, that's their bad for being quitters.
Dave Kos

"I mean I've seen a Million Dollar bra but nothing else comparable for the boys."...

Then you really NEED to check out my diamond studded COD PIECE...
bvb

Social climber
flagstaff arizona

Jan 25, 2013 - 09:26am PT
Just in case you guys forgot, there are some great climbing threads on this forum. You should check 'em out! Too sw0le!

Oh, and Anastasia is still my hero. Y'all h8ers can blow me. I tried to inject some cultural, academic, sociological and historical blood into this thread but wtf, this is supertopo. What the f*#k was I thinking?!
GDavis

Social climber
SOL CAL

Jan 25, 2013 - 09:30am PT

locker

Social climber
state of Kumbaya...

Jan 25, 2013 - 09:34am PT

...

Anastasia

climber
InLOVEwithAris.

Jan 25, 2013 - 09:37am PT
It's about the proper conduct of a teacher and my job security. Luckily it doesn't apply to me anymore. Will I ever teach high school again? Nope. I do not see how it is possible with the current lack of jobs and... The whole teaching industry seams geared for failure since treating everyone with different needs/skill the same simply isn't logical. Inclusive education in increasing class sizes with less time for each student. Plus the trend of using teachers as escape goats, demanding more from smaller budgets. We don't have money for science labs, books, multi media, etc... How can we offer a better education with less stuff, less time, a more complicated and larger class population? Well, now this is a whole other argument.

Anyway... That is that.

Again please note I did not post a nude picture of anyone including myself. Saying I did is an inaccurate statement.
Hankster

Social climber
Golden, CO

Jan 25, 2013 - 09:46am PT
Having not yet been to Europe, how do men respond to all the topless women at the beach?

brotherbbock

Trad climber
Alta Loma, CA

Jan 25, 2013 - 09:48am PT
+1 Anastasia. I agree 100%.
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA

Jan 25, 2013 - 09:55am PT
if a guy started rubbing his crotch in the sunbathing area

Yeah, I guess you haven't been to Ibiza.
ncrockclimber

climber
The Desert Oven

Jan 25, 2013 - 09:56am PT
Ken, based on your posts here you seem to be extremely narrow minded and pompous, and I find your diatribe regarding this thread to be much more objectionable than any picture that was posted in the BOOB thread. I seriously don't think that you will understand this, but you comparing posting pictures of topless women to slavery, racism, and the abuse and exploitation of women trivializes all of those serious issues. Of all the BS that has been posted about this "serious matter," your posts are by far and away the most offensive.

FWIW, I liked many of TR's post. I did not agree with her stance on the boobs thread AT ALL, but am sorry to see her go. I greatly enjoyed almost everything Lolli posted and was always happy to read her the perspective on issues. I don't believe anyone knows why she left, but I wish she would come back.

One more thing... they are BOOBS! Boobs are good. Boobs are not offensive. It is ok for guys and gals to look at them and think they are beautiful. The human body is not something to be embarrassed about. I think that a lot of you folks just need to relax... but that is just my opinion.
Hardman Knott

Gym climber
Muir Woods National Monument, Mill Valley, Ca

Jan 25, 2013 - 10:07am PT
Just gotta say... I'm TOTALLY sick of you morons SPECULATING about Lolli quitting over the boob-thread and posting it as fact. You people don't know sh#t and have ZERO clue why she left so unless you can produce an email verifying it, I'd quit perpetrating that stupid rumor...

Well-worth repeating!
Hawkeye

climber
State of Mine

Jan 25, 2013 - 10:07am PT
somehow i cant post a pic of a box of kleenX for all the wankers but got to walgreens or better yet, WALMART and get yourself some if you really think this sh#t is serious.
LuckyPink

climber
the last bivy

Jan 25, 2013 - 10:12am PT
you see the women here pointing out that there is a big difference between nudity and porn, soft or harsh.

No one is unaware of the hostility and exploitation behind pornography. Some the posters here like to identify with that and make use of it to settle their own feelings of inadequacy through intimidation of others. Awareness of the hostility and exploitation of pornography is painful, so many people try to ignore, deny, or downplay it. Some of us just have more balls than others and are able to be aware and speak out. Big thanks to all who have!

When someone has taken a big sh#t in the living room it stinks and is offensive. Better to clean it up than leave it there.

PS, this whole episode is NOT about Anastasia in any way, t*r, Lolli, or any of these peripheral arguments. It is about the underlying (and overt)sexualized hostility, the exploitation of women and girls, both generally and personally here on this forum. The thread became rank in a seriously offensive way, and a legal liability. Better it's gone.
WBraun

climber

Jan 25, 2013 - 10:13am PT
Psyops and Blackops experts study stupid threads like this and see how stupid Americans can be.

This why and how the Americans have lost their rights, freedoms and gone off to stupid wars over the years,
along with believing every stupid thing they hear and see in the media these days. ......
Captain...or Skully

if you just show only the Penis itself, then there is no room for exploitation

& this would teach the Hysterical Women here that nudity is OK and harmless

the Penis thread is a Serious Matter

-

Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA

Jan 25, 2013 - 11:00am PT
Went through the Mapplethorpe show at LACMA. WHOA! They had guards at the
entrance to keep kids out unless mom wanted to show little Jimmy that fisting pics can be art.
moosedrool

Trad climber
lost, far away from Poland

Jan 25, 2013 - 11:07am PT
as long as the Penises are not erect, then it is not sexual

It still would be controversial. People would argue i.e. over the angle. Is 90 degrees up considered erected???

LOL
Dr.Sprock

Boulder climber
I'm James Brown, Bi-atch!

Jan 25, 2013 - 11:09am PT
what is the legal age for breast feeding in california?

ot: did those guys make it to angel island?

you know, escape from alcatraz, eastwood's movie
bvb

Social climber
flagstaff arizona

Jan 25, 2013 - 11:12am PT
you see the women here pointing out there is a big difference between nudity and porn, soft or harsh.

Well, sort of, but not really. What generally I see here are entrenched sterotypes, a radical devotion to cherished orthodoxies, an unwillingness to examine beliefs, jaw-dropping misinformation regarding simple matters of fact ("legal liability?"), and minds buttoned up tighter than space capsules.

I'll try this one more time, although actually tackling the arduous and sometimes painful chore of periodically examining and reaffirming one's belief system is far too arduous a task for most. Prove me wrong.

I like that one. It begs the point that some may just have bone encapsulating space too.

You can try and bottle up sexuality but it will emerge in some form, like it or not. The more stilted and ruled by morality it becomes, the more insidious its expression. Some guys openly agog at the female form has its drawbacks, but at least you see the whole show out in the open. Better than priests f*#king children in confessional booths, but your ymmv.
bvb

Social climber
flagstaff arizona

Jan 25, 2013 - 11:23am PT
The thing about a space capsule is no fresh air gets in or out; the same stale crap just keeps getting recycled. This thread is 278 posts and counting.
moosedrool

Jan 25, 2013 - 11:27am PT
Hey Ken, maybe you should chill out a little and have a beer.

Credit: The Larry

Anastasia

climber
InLOVEwithAris.

Jan 25, 2013 - 11:27am PT
^^^ Yup... One of my original pictures... Note the clothes and the humor. No nudity was needed. Again, none of my pictures actually had nudity. As you can see, it worked so well people didn't notice I had NOT posted a nude picture. You can say a whole lot of the same without using nudity. People should work on that.

Plus...

I grew up with National Geographic. Plenty of boobs in that magazine and no one is that upset about taking advantage of the natives, human slavery, etc. "Please Note this is significant because in the regions that National Geographic is presenting, that stuff really does exist." So why no complaints there and here it's something else?

Also we have tons of medical books here. Aris is going to get an eye full. I am not going to lock up Bill's medical books just because the kid might see nudity. The context and how it is presented does make a difference. Plus, I rather he learn to see the body first through a scientific view point than being introduced to it in other ways. Then maybe he might not be so mesmerized, and over sexualized. Yes, I think suppression does make minor things more stimulating than it really is.

Plus I've been in many hot tubs with boys and girls naked and no one was offended or mouthing off rude comments. Why does it occur here? This is the interesting anthropology, social question. Seriously how can public hot tubs around Mammoth (I know many of you have been there) be so respectful and casual.. Then here it becomes something viciously wrong?

What the heck is wrong with society that feeds off of this kind of drama?

bvb

Social climber
flagstaff arizona

Jan 25, 2013 - 11:32am PT
+1 on that.
locker

Social climber
state of Kumbaya...

Jan 25, 2013 - 11:36am PT

"Went through the Mapplethorpe show"...

Which was originally (Years back) canceled due to PRUDES...

So glad it made it back around and is now being viewed for the great ART that it is...

climbski2

Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV

Jan 25, 2013 - 11:39am PT
Anastasia made some great points and I'd like to add some thoughts of mine.

Context is a huge key to what is tasteful and enjoyable versus rude or outright disgusting.

I definately do not get the folks who find any nudity wrong. But I certainly understand the outrage when it comes to even skirting underage porn. I know folks whose lives were affected by sexual abuse when young. If you havn't seen the results you simply cannot understand how terribly destructive it is. It is one of the worst crimes I can think of.

Sadly it only takes one insensitive ignorant person to cross that line and destroy what was otherwise a harmless and in many case beautiful thread and throw turmoil into a community.

The matter of underage abuse is rightfully serious and as can be seen it will mangle a community due to it's deep destructiveness,
Jim Brennan

Trad climber
Vancouver Canada

Jan 25, 2013 - 11:40am PT
the Mapplethorpe show was brought back because of a lot of people pounding their fists on a table and making a lot of noise.
John M

climber

Jan 25, 2013 - 11:42am PT

Anastasia.. I was sunbathing with some lady friends at a swimming hole in Wawona. This hole is well hidden and if you don't know its there, you can walk right by it. You can't see the sunbathing spot from the trail. We were just hanging there doing our thing when around the rock comes this guy leading a church group. He has a video camera and he points the camera at us and starts shooting. I walk up to him and put my hand over the lens and tell him that if he didn't want to go for a swim with his camera, that he would have to stop taking pictures.

I think some people forget that many people in America are still offended by nudity. The respect you find around the swimming holes in California is due in part to teaching people and in part to running off the most obvious pervs.

Oh.. and in the above story, these people weren't there to swim. If they were and they didn't like the nudity, we would have put on swim suits. This guy was a preacher and he knew about the swimming hole and he was into some weird got to make the heathens feel bad kind of thing. I gave him a different message.
Anastasia

climber
InLOVEwithAris.

Jan 25, 2013 - 11:43am PT
What the hell? Like I said... What the hell were people posting while I was gone? If that was the case, then yeah... Underage is a BIG issue, it is criminal and the person posting should be ashamed and afraid. The big arm of the law does go far.

Yup, glad it was erased. Holy shamolly... I'm speechless.

Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA

Jan 25, 2013 - 11:43am PT
Locker, the guy was a great photog and I don't mind looking at great pics of honed doods,
but some of that stuff could put an eye out!
toadgas

Social climber
los angeles

Jan 25, 2013 - 11:43am PT
-

people need to learn there is NOTHING wrong with wholesome, healthy Nudity

here, for example, is an image from the Institute of Nude Wrestling...

Jan 25, 2013 - 11:44am PT
I've also seen this community remain silent as a doormouse as several users made sexually threatening or insinuating comments about other members' underage daughters here. Due respect to you "moral" crusaders who said nothing then and now complain about a little skin of the legal age.
climbski2

Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV

Jan 25, 2013 - 11:46am PT
^ I only know of one incident that involved comments about DMTs kid and that guy got some serious flak from me and many others. It's the only time I have reported and I suppose he was banned.. haven't seen him again afaik. I have no problem speaking up if I see something waay wrong.

Anastasia
Whether the pics were actually underage or not is hard to say but it looked close enough to have crossed a very bad line.
locker

Social climber
state of Kumbaya...

Jan 25, 2013 - 11:46am PT

"but some of that stuff could put an eye out!"...

Dude was HARD core, for sure...(pun obviously intended)

Dingus Milktoast

Gym climber
And every fool knows, a dog needs a home, and...

Jan 25, 2013 - 11:47am PT
With all due jebus that is not strictly correct - Mighty Hiker and several others did in fact speak up and quite strongly. Someone must have complained too because the offending threads disappeared and I did not do the complaining (in the cases I am thinking of, there was more than one).

People found that offensive because they felt women with small breasts looked like children.
Chaz

Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area

Jan 25, 2013 - 11:51am PT
Not only are the pics of under-age kids of questionable legality, so is making accessible TO under-age kids adult materials - even if the models are of legal age.

Since no one is checking IDs at the door here, there's nothing preventing kids from accessing what's posted here.

There are people in jail right now for making racy photos available to kids.
Jebus H Bomz

climber
Reno, Nuh VAAAA duh

Jan 25, 2013 - 11:54am PT
With all due jebus that is not strictly correct - Mighty Hiker and several others did in fact speak up and quite strongly. Someone must have complained too because the offending threads disappeared and I did not do the complaining (in the cases I am thinking of, there was more than one).

DMT

Ah, well, at the time it seemed most steered clear (I did not). Certainly not the widespread, multi-thread approbation over some prudish bs melodrama. You took the high road when (at least when I saw the thread), a hard task I am sure. Much respect.

Also, goatboysmellz took a swing at Silver's beloved daughter (not more than 3-years old) with some gang rape innuendo. Mostly radio silence on that one and that goathole remains a member here at a time when the almighty Oz was in full on banning mode.
Jebus H Bomz

climber
Reno, Nuh VAAAA duh

Jan 25, 2013 - 11:58am PT
Anastasia, my understanding is there were no underage pics, merely young looking models. Not a line I would feel comfortable trodding, mind you, but there is a difference.

edit: You erased! Don't leave a bro hangin'!
locker

Social climber
state of Kumbaya...

Jan 25, 2013 - 11:58am PT

"goatboysmellz took a swing at Silver's beloved daughter with some gang rape innuendo (for a 3-year old I met)."...

Huh???...

He did???...

GoatBOIeeeeee...

What the FUK???...

bvb

Social climber
flagstaff arizona

Jan 25, 2013 - 12:00pm PT
What the hell? Like I said... What the hell were people posting while I was gone? If that was the case, then yeah... Underage is a BIG issue, it is criminal and the person posting should be ashamed and afraid. The big arm of the law does go far.

Nothing even remotely underage, Anastasia. Not even close. Petite women with small breasts. As I pointed out at the time this red herring was first floated, if you visit a college campus these days the 18 - 22 year olds look like children, the way I imagine Jr. High kids looked like to me 30 years ago. And as we get older this perceptual distortion only becomes more pronounced, jarring, and striking. That this notion could get any traction at all is a reflection of the overwhelmingly white, middle class, 30-and-over demographic of this forum.

Are you suggesting that none of the images in the boob thread were sexualized? Why must the male body be shown in a non-sexual manner but it is okay to show the female body in that manner?

(Edit: Image removed as a courtesy)

It seems many here just cannot accept that there are various opinions and be respectful of them; they need to lash out with intimidation tactics in an attempt to silence others.

I said I would begin posting images to counterbalance the boobs ones being shown in this thread(or the other booby whinefest threads). While there haven't been any boob shots that I noticed, I think some still are not quite getting the point. And so, when guys continue with the stance that there is something wrong with women who didn't mind their own business about that thread, and try to intimidate any men who actually have the balls to stand up and provide their opinion as well, I will be making....a point, through imagery.

climbski2

Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV

Jan 25, 2013 - 12:04pm PT
As the saying goes.."whats good for the goose..."

Back to outrage regarding anything that skirts underage.

If you havn't seen the destruction of a persons life due to abuse I suppose it might be hard to understand the outrage of those who have seen it. A line that you just can't get anywhere near without being burned.

See the Irish Patrick's (cant remember his exact sceen name )threads about caregiving to catch a glimpse.
Anastasia

climber
InLOVEwithAris.

Jan 25, 2013 - 12:04pm PT
Sorry Jebus,

I erased after realizing how that post can be twisted. I don't want that...

I am right now feeling really bad about that line being crossed. Holy heck folks... I knew you guys will get the thread nuked but I thought it would be over something like Locker's plugs, etc. Not this, NEVER this. That's astounding bad. Don't do that...

People found that offensive because they felt women with small breasts looked like children."

Someone also posted a bunch of pictures of girls who looked under 18. I thought that was offensive.
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca

Jan 25, 2013 - 12:10pm PT
So Ken, just as a point of clarity, you seem upset that two members of this forum are now gone. Do you have any personal insight or first hand knowledge of why Lolli jumped ship? From what I have seen she simply walked away and left a blank slate. Having seen nothing else it's hard for me to give reason to that without jumping to conclusions. I do recall seeing a post from someone that received a PM from her stating that it was for personal reasons. I'll try to find it later.

As far as T*R goes, obviously she found offense and took action. She was then banned for that action.

If you're basing your outrage and criteria on two individuals of this forum, one of which who's leaving seems to be an unknown and the other very well known, well, so be it, even if I think maybe you're getting a bit ahead of yourself.

I do have personal first hand knowledge.

I don't think I'd describe my emotions as "outrage", as much as sadness.

I am unaware of ANY thread, that resulted in the quitting of two members. Are you? Due to them being offended as having the minority class to which they belong being put down.

It is totally legitimate to discuss whether such threads are a put down of a class. Would a thread on blacks, that went on for a thousand posts, repeating stereotypes be a put down? Undoubtedly some would day yes, some no.

But the nature of community is to discuss things. And the "sentinal event" of a thread that causes people to quit, just by it's existance, seems to be a notable event.

and also, I find it interesting the problem people seem to have with standing with those who have left on philosophical grounds, and even being willing to look at what the issue might have been and why it was an issue.
Anastasia

climber
InLOVEwithAris.

Jan 25, 2013 - 12:10pm PT
As for sexualized... What isn't these days? The Kardashians? LOL! Victoria Secret's clothing line PINK? Why are there female news anchors that can sideline as models, where did all the others ones go? They don't qualify anymore? Plus why do many anchor women wear such low cut and tight shirts?
It's the freakin NEWS!!!!

When are we going to admit it, face it, deal it out? Pretending we are in a moral world when it obviously is a world that is over sexualized... I think avoiding it, pretending it's not there is very dangerous.

The Larry

climber
Moab, UT

Jan 25, 2013 - 12:12pm PT
Damn Happy girl that dood is Swole!
Norton

Social climber
the Wastelands

Jan 25, 2013 - 12:12pm PT
no, many of them were sexualized, were soft-core porn, and should NOT have been included, imo

and that is almost word for word what t*r said was her objection to the boob thread

I wonder if the boob thread could have survived and been progressively added to, if it was started by a male instead

my guess is that because a female started it, then it became ok like it was legitimized
toadgas

Social climber
los angeles

Jan 25, 2013 - 12:13pm PT
^^^^^^

re boob thread, well, there were a few with women licking other womens' nipples

i don't see female news anchors doing that to each other, but would NOT change the channel if they did!!!!
Michelle

Trad climber
Toshi's Station, picking up power converters.

Jan 25, 2013 - 12:15pm PT
Plus I've been in many hot tubs with boys and girls naked and no one was offended or mouthing off rude comments. Why does it occur here?

Because nobody would act this silly without clothes on.

I was at Travertine once and was asked by this, ahem, lovely woman, to put my clothes on or leave since she didn't want her sons (around 10) to see nudity. Quite rudely. I calmly continued to disrobe and enter the pool. I then made direct eye contact and said, "by the looks of you, I'd be more concerned about the impact that the McDonald's you feed your kids has on them than my skin." (The only other vehicle was assumably theirs and FULL of junk food trash.) They left.
The Larry

climber
Moab, UT

Jan 25, 2013 - 12:15pm PT
I bet if all the mass shooters had some boobs in their life they might not have gone all postal.
happiegrrrl

Jan 25, 2013 - 12:17pm PT
I definately do not get the folks who find any nudity wrong.

I definitely do not recall noticing any posts made by someone who finds any nudity wrong.... Could you please provide at lease a reminder of what was posted? I don't expect you to go searching back over posts to directly pinpoint this(which is another cheap tactic some people employ - task the person with something which requires an inordinate amount of effort and when they person doesn't comply to the stupid demand, claim victory on a point), but I honestly don't believe anyone here has said, or even suggested, that all nudity is bad.

Also, it is certainly not simple nudity which is what people are finding offensive about this whole matter. It is not even the boob thread itself, at this point, and never was, for me. I am not 100% sure, but I THINK what has got people upset now is the aggressive hostility being blasted at anyone who makes a post against the sacrosanctity of the boobs thread.
The Warbler

Please start your own vindictive male anatomy objectification thread, so we can choose to avoid it, "Happy", as you had the opportunity to avoid the evil Boobs Thread.

Thanks in advance,

Kev
climbski2

Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV

Jan 25, 2013 - 12:22pm PT
Happie..

Nah my comment right there was directed in general not specifically to anything posted here on the Taco.

Yeah this stuff is explosive and has damaged a community. Some of it for good reason some not so much. Sad really but predictable once certain lines are approached.
Jebus H Bomz

climber
Reno, Nuh VAAAA duh

Jan 25, 2013 - 12:22pm PT
Most are merely voicing their opinion, Happie. I don't see the rampant bullying, or intimidations as you say, by either side here, just opinions. I could give two shits if the boob thread exists or not, but I thought it had a right to exist. Because others disagree with my opinion doesn't mean they are bullying me, even if they got their way and still continue to whine about the tragedy of those who decided to leave on their own volition. I don't see a self-imposed time out or boycotting as being bullied, it's just a consumer choice. I didn't see the questionable photos of young looking models to say what I thought either though. Like Anastasia said, the thread was probably bound to implode eventually as people were increasingly encouraged to show each other their wank material.

That's my f'd up paragraph's worth of bullying, anyway ;).
Anastasia

climber
InLOVEwithAris.

Jan 25, 2013 - 12:28pm PT
People need to relax. A person doesn't like it... That is valid and not worth bashing them for that opinion. A person does like the boob thread is also valid and not worth bashing over either.

Illegal activity... Yeah, that's obviously wrong, you don't need much brains or morality to figure that out. No matter what you think upon nudity itself. That is worth a good NUKING for obvious reasons. Totally agree...

Witch hunting, pointing fingers, being rude... That's obviously not good no matter what stance you are defending.

Let the thread die, the joke is over... People made it into something else, what's new? Now whoever was rude to another person and those who were rude to the girls, go write an apology to them and stop being mean over pictures. They are just pictures, not the Mona Lisa or the Sistine Chapel (even though that is full of nudity too.) It's not worth it.

You don't have to apologize for your beliefs. Apologize for hurting feelings because that does matter.

Jan 25, 2013 - 12:30pm PT
Why are there female news anchors that can sideline as models, where did all the others ones go? They don't qualify anymore? Plus why do many anchor women wear such low cut and tight shirts?

You answered that one yourself: They don't qualify anymore. Just like the 45 year old guy who can do a job just as good, or better, than a 25 year old isn't "qualified" any more. Or, more likely, they will be termed overqualified, and told they wouldn't be happy in a job beneath their skill level. Which is the same thing the women who don't display themselves as eye candy are told.

Anastasia - Going "along" with the idea that sexualization is the primary value of women is the problem. That is also WHY women are shrouded in the bhurkas and such in some societies.

Again - I don't believe anyone here is saying they find distaste in seeing a woman's naked body, but the tactic of turning them into seasonings for the sausage.
Hankster

Social climber
Golden, CO

Jan 25, 2013 - 12:35pm PT
but the tactic of turning them into seasonings for the sausage.

What the heck does "seasonings for the sausage" mean?
bvb

Social climber
flagstaff arizona

Jan 25, 2013 - 12:36pm PT
Yeah this stuff is explosive and has damaged a community.

If you actually believe this then the community you are referring to probably never existed in the first place.
LuckyPink

climber
the last bivy

Jan 25, 2013 - 12:38pm PT
those were photos of prepubescent girls. not 18 and up with small breasts. NO breast development and a couple with new breast buds. Some had developing breasts that could be mistaken for adults. lots of face makeup. which is the usual for child porn. A stint at CPS makes one acutely aware of what is child porn.
Your hostility and defensiveness is just that, hostility and defensiveness. Be at peace. Offer some kindness for those who are injured by this industry.

Happpie has made so many excellent observations regarding the inequalities present here.
Hardman Knott

Gym climber
Muir Woods National Monument, Mill Valley, Ca

Jan 25, 2013 - 12:40pm PT
What the hell? Like I said... What the hell were people posting while I was gone? If that was the case, then yeah... Underage is a BIG issue, it is criminal and the person posting should be ashamed and afraid. The big arm of the law does go far.

Yup, glad it was erased. Holy shamolly... I'm speechless

There's no way IHP would post pics of underage girls. It's simply inconceivable that he would be that stupid. I didn't see the last pics posted before the thread was deleted, but I clicked on his profile and there were a couple where the models looked really young. One in particular looked like a girl with the breast development of a young teenager, but her face looked like she could well be 18. Although the photos were in no way sexualized, I personally find such photos totally out of place in a thread full of real WOMEN, and yes it is creepy indeed that 50-something men would find that sort of thing a turn on (assuming they even do).

The photos in question are now gone, but then so are dozens (if knott 100's) of others where the models were quite obviously over 18.
Jebus H Bomz

Dunno, there are some truths but also some over simplifications to this discussion. That we sexualize each other is probably unavoidable as humans. There is a biologic basis, my fellow neuters and gender neutral automotons. Coming out as the firebrand in these matters is probably the quickest route to hypocrisy, however, whether you are feminist, religious, or otherwise. Thou shalt not... report me to the Cardinal.
matisse

climber

Jan 25, 2013 - 12:49pm PT
I personally never had a problem with the boob thread. I paint nudes and have worked as an artists model in the past. I think some of you are missing the point (or at least my point)
what I have a problem with is the way people, particularly women, were treated who did object to it and the total melt down temper tantrum some of you guys had when it got whacked.

The Warbler

climber
the edge of America

Jan 25, 2013 - 12:52pm PT
With all due respect Lucky Pink, how are you so sure those girls were underage?

Most posters here disagree.

That's a loaded and libelous claim, a "serious matter", so to speak.

Back it up or button it up.

You're entitled to your opinion on the intent and morality of The Thread, but what you are accusing the posters of, and possibly the site of, is illegal, if I'm not mistaken, and to publish in print (including pictures), writing or broadcast through radio, television or film, an untruth about another which will do harm to that person is the legal definition of libel - "a serious matter".
toadgas

Social climber
los angeles

Jan 25, 2013 - 12:55pm PT
What the heck does "seasonings for the sausage" mean?

Because it's a very serious felony and would result in search and seizure of all his computers and digital media, arrest, and lengthly a prison term where inmates take a very dim view of convicted pedophiles, even if it's "merely" being in possession of (and distributing) child porn.
Norton

On the advice of my doctor, since he said he couldn't do anything for my Bubonic Plague beyond what he's already done, I've been watching out takes from Groucho Marx' "You Bet Your Life.". That quote seems very pertinent.
Anastasia

Jan 25, 2013 - 01:36pm PT
Like I said, never underestimate the power of boobs.
goatboy smellz

climber
Nederland-GulfBreeze

Jan 25, 2013 - 01:38pm PT
Jeebus go find someone else to leg hump.
Your bitch boy Silver admitted to killing dogs and liking it.
I called him out on it by making a snide comment.
I didn't even know he had a daughter but his meltdown afterward was hilarious.
kthxsbye
graniteclimber

Trad climber
The Illuminati -- S.P.E.C.T.R.E. Division

Jan 25, 2013 - 01:46pm PT
I didn't see the pics of allegedly underaged girls, but then I didn't follow the thread as closely as some of you.

But if you see what you think may be child porn you should report it. It would NOT have gotten supertopo in trouble. For image links they will go to the site that is hosting the images on its server.

I doubt that the women in the images were underage, but if you think they were, why not let the proper authorities get to the bottom of it?

This link was on the FBI web site for reporting child exploitation: https://report.cybertip.org/index.htm;jsessionid=2EE90180EE8D043A767FA16E5C8E3DFF.report.cybertip.org

Edit: Even if there wasn't anyone underage in the pics, I still thought the thread should be removed. I didn't have a problem with it being up for a few days, but I'm surprised it lasted as long as it did.
froodish

Indeed, completely separate issues. Most photos "posted" to Supertopo are "hotlinked" from some other site using the [img... shortcodes. In that case, the images do not reside on the Supertopo servers. There are no copyright implications for Supertopo.

If you upload pictures using the "photo" link in the reply form:

Those images do indeed reside on the Supertopo servers. You can tell the differences as the uploaded images have the Supertopo frame around them, like this:

Jan 26, 2013 - 01:16am PT
Not that it matters much but just for the record, I love this place. I love the climbing content and those who post it. I love the OT posts, whether I agree with the content or not, because they show a slice of life that I might otherwise be unaware of. I love the dialogue even though it can get robustly stupid at times in some of the threads. I love the fact that this site remains touched deftly by moderator hands.

Take from it what you will. Don't be stupid, mean, or an attention whore. Talk. Convey. Read. Learn.

"It's all fun and games until somebody is forced into prostitution"...

So it's gone from the "Boob" thread to prostitution???...

EDITED:

This is...

SERIOUS...

philo

Trad climber
Is that light the end of the tunnel or a train?

Jan 26, 2013 - 08:36am PT
On a positive note I will be running ST forum side bar ads for my new business.
Burkha, Habit and Shroud r Us. Free Glock 9mm semis for the first 100 customers.
And I promise nary a boob in sight.

Credit: philo

Credit: philo

dirtbag

climber

Jan 26, 2013 - 09:26am PT
I still like looking at boobies. Am I a bad person?
philo

Trad climber
Is that light the end of the tunnel or a train?

Jan 26, 2013 - 09:29am PT
Yes. But a thousand round penance at the target range should set you right.
The Warbler

Jan 26, 2013 - 09:39am PT
Just providing balance, Locker. Not unlike your images of the obese man and woman. Well, actually unlike that quite a bit, but there's nothing wrong with dialog(which is why I posted the link), is there?

Interesting to note that you chose an image of a woman which is a provocatively styled shot, and the male, balancing act, is not. Or aren't you aware that the female image you posted would be seen as sexually enticing to a cross section of people, and definitely money in the spank bank for the type who likes that?

And Philo, I think you really need to find some new material. We've all gotten the "joke" you've been making with that set of images. It's like you're at a party and keep telling the same knock, knock joke over and over....

And Dirtbag, just for clarity - I have never said liking booby pictures is "bad," I didn't see many of the images posted on that thread as "bad." My upset is over the intimidation/minimizing tactics deployed on anyone who doesn't see the aforementioned thread as the best thing since sliced bread that seem so prevalent in this thread.
locker

Social climber
state of Kumbaya...

Jan 26, 2013 - 09:43am PT

"and the male, balancing act, is not."...

GOOGLE for yourself and let me know when you find a photo of some fat fuk dude posing in a sexual way...

Jan 26, 2013 - 10:16am PT
Well, Locker - I will not post an image. But I did Google "arrousing image of obese men " and then go through to the images version, and see one in the 3rd row of images. Not as well styled as your ladies image, but the intent is there nonetheless.

But, it was just something that I happened to think, when I saw your post. Not really THAT serious, especially in comparison to some of the other things which have come up in this thread.

And update(after the Elvis type image)- Locker, please don't minimize my input on this topic. While it may be very funny to some, and others are just goofing around because they are bored and unable to get out more(which I am guessing is why you post the way you do, as you have mentioned some health issues), I think I have been pretty clear that I don't think this is all a lark. To make fun of me, even in a light-hearted way(which I do believe is your intent), is actually inappropriate.
locker

Social climber
state of Kumbaya...

Jan 26, 2013 - 10:19am PT

"But I did Google "arrousing image of obese men " and then go through to the images version, and see one in the 3rd row of images. Not as well styled as your ladies image, but the intent is there nonetheless."...

I was SERIOUSLY affraid that I had made the mistake and now see that it was Happie...

Fewwwwwwwwwwwwww that was close!!!...

SERIOUSLY CLOSE!!!...

locker

Social climber
state of Kumbaya...

Jan 26, 2013 - 10:33am PT

If SOME are still having SERIOUS issues concerning stuff like this...

I SERIOUSLY suggest that THIS is NOT the place to deal with them...

Some SERIOUS counseling MIGHT be in order...

Because it is NOT that SERIOUS here, on SuperTopo...

If it is to you, you're SERIOUSLY fuked up!!!...

Big Mike

Trad climber
BC

Jan 26, 2013 - 10:34am PT
Apogee = Websters?
Jebus H Bomz

climber
Reno, Nuh VAAAA duh

Jan 26, 2013 - 10:36am PT
Goatboismellz wrote:
Jeebus go find someone else to leg hump.
Your bitch boy Silver admitted to killing dogs and liking it.
I called him out on it by making a snide comment.
I didn't even know he had a daughter but his meltdown afterward was hilarious.
kthxsbye

Thanks, but last thing I'd do is honor the requests of a classless POS like you've shown yourself. I make plenty of snide comments without implying gang rape on somebody's daughter. It's pretty easy, actually. Maybe not if that's what you like to think about though.
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy

Jan 26, 2013 - 10:36am PT
'Websters?'
^^^
Only when it's.......

Serious.
locker

Social climber
state of Kumbaya...

Jan 26, 2013 - 12:36pm PT

SERIOUS BUMP!!!...

Anyone with any SERIOUS Psych issues, just post all your SH!T here and SuperTopo will sort it out for you...

Jan 26, 2013 - 12:43pm PT
Yes, I misspelled. Luckily, Google has some built in AI and searched using the correct spelling.

If SOME are still having SERIOUS issues concerning stuff like this...

I SERIOUSLY suggest that THIS is NOT the place to deal with them...

I'm not dealing with "my" personal issues on this thread. I am well aware what they are, have been working on them since at least the age of 13, and have found it is a lifelong process.

I am providing a viewpoint in this thread that apparently makes some people here uncomfortable. I don't mean you specifically, Locker, but to post what I quoted above is an attempt to silence those speaking out. You do realize that, don't you? That sort of manipulation comes in many levels, from fairly innocuous to flat out mental abuse. It's probably not a style you would consciously want to take.

For what it's worth, I have received more than a few private correspondences on what I have been posting, and there is support for my words. Not everyone is as willing and able to stand up against a crowd, but it happens to be one of the unintended consequences which resulted from my having "serious issues."
locker

Social climber
state of Kumbaya...

Jan 26, 2013 - 12:45pm PT

RE-EDITED for THIS:

"I don't mean you specifically, Locker"...

Well that's GOOD...

Because in ALL honesty, I pretty much AGREE with a lot of what you have been writing...

EDITED:

For what it's worth...

my fuking email mailbox has been FULL as sh!t with people here AGREEING with me...

Jan 26, 2013 - 01:20pm PT
Locker, this is so serious that people are emailing you?

Woo-freaking-hoo!
locker

Social climber
state of Kumbaya...

Jan 26, 2013 - 01:23pm PT

"Locker, this is so serious that people are emailing you?"...

NOT this thread in particular...

ALL the BS started by t*r and the "BOOB" thread and the sh!t that has followed (Such as this thread)...

And I take it ALL, very SERIOUSLY!!!...

I am a SERIOUS man...

Just ask ANYONE...

;-)

Largo

Sport climber
The Big Wide Open Face

Jan 26, 2013 - 01:32pm PT
Melissa wrote: Those of us whose age of consent was not respected are likely to be more concerned with the rights and well-being of the girls in the pictures who have been immortalized on the internet than we are with the old men who have obviously figured out how to appreciate the digital female form.
I would hazard to say that most of us men, young and old and in between, never had to "figure out" how to appreciate the female form. It's a natural reaction for which our survival owes the pleasure. However, her earlier sentence touches on what I mentioned earlier - strong reactions usually denote a history of sorts, often untoward, so sensitivity is indicated. It's mostly about the involuntary associations that accrue to a person, place or thing which determines our views; and everyone's past is not a glorious sunset. That's why a seemingly benign thread about a body part can trigger a Gorilla Monsoon of guff and emotional arcing.

JL
The Larry

climber
Moab, UT

Jan 26, 2013 - 01:33pm PT
There are seriously a lot of boobs on this thread.
goatboy smellz

climber
Nederland-GulfBreeze

Jan 26, 2013 - 02:03pm PT
locker

Social climber
state of Kumbaya...

Jan 26, 2013 - 02:08pm PT

^^^

Clinton is a crack up...

Melissa

Gym climber
berkeley, ca

Jan 26, 2013 - 03:48pm PT
Largo...I know you and most men and many women too didn't need to learn to appreciate the female form. Finding pictures of boobies on the internet in order to be able to appreciate them is what I was saying folks have learned.

I'm not sensitive about men lusting after boobs. I'm sensitive about men lusting after children....which is what was reported by someone I trust (LuckyPink) to have been present.

Honestly, I don't play for the boob-loving team, so I hadn't been keeping tabs on the thread and had no idea what happened until all of DRAMAONTHEBOOBTHREAD new thread titles started appearing...and I admit curiosity got the best of me.
The Warbler

climber
the edge of America

Jan 26, 2013 - 04:02pm PT
I'm sensitive about men lusting after children....which is what was reported by someone I trust (LuckyPink) to have been present.

When confronted to prove the models were underage, LP balked. When confronted about her personal definition of porn vs the legal one, she balked again.

Plus, you're taking it a step further to say men were "lusting after children" - you don't know they were children, and you don't know what reactions anyone else had to the photos.

Jan 26, 2013 - 04:37pm PT
On "THE" thread I saw photos of women who looked young, on purpose.
That sh!t is creepy but, unfortunately, legal.
To me, a kink stops being a kink when it goes there-
the sexualizing of girls and the whole "barely legal" thing.

It's not porn but it is f*#king creepy and I can see where people would be offended and even angry.

I was happy with fully clothed women with amazing breasts of all shapes and sizes.
And boobs ain't even my kink!

Jennie

Trad climber
Elk Creek, Idaho

Jan 26, 2013 - 06:03pm PT

A hypothetical question...

If a court could agree that a particular image suggests or invites taking
advantage of naivete'...the corrupting of innocence...or exploiting the trusting...

Should a model's 18 year certification validate and elevate the depiction above debauchery ??
Reilly

Jan 26, 2013 - 06:14pm PT
Riley, I've read your posts on this thread and I have to say...

You're ridiculous, and hypocritical.
You drag t*r through the mud, then state you "like" her.

Damn disgusting.
Do you want to spray some more about getting boob photos, or would you like to talk about your "marriage/separation" during that time period??

Let me know. Until then, stop acting like the saint you are not.

~Leggs

Michelle

Trad climber
Toshi's Station, picking up power converters.

Jan 26, 2013 - 06:34pm PT
Looks like us bitches are up in the house.

So I must say, after laughing mightily at all this, how interesting it is that women get called upon to bear the burden of proof and to justify concretely their position and men just get to say, "It's our nature, get over it." A lot of semantic nit picking. Yawn. Let's just roll up our vaginas and vacate this thread to the righteous boobs. And I don't mean breasts.

:)
Leggs

Sport climber
Home away from Home

Jan 26, 2013 - 06:35pm PT
^^^ amen, Michelle.

locker

Social climber
state of Kumbaya...

Jan 26, 2013 - 07:09pm PT

I would love to have sex with Nicole Kidman...

EDITED:

I am serious...

Jim Brennan

Trad climber
Vancouver Canada

Jan 26, 2013 - 07:18pm PT
And now a musical interlude that includes boys and girls and a LOT of harmony:

locker

Social climber
state of Kumbaya...

Jan 26, 2013 - 07:24pm PT

Let's continue that break...

zBrown

Ice climber
chingadero de chula vista

Jan 26, 2013 - 07:25pm PT
not sure if this is serious enough, I'll have to defer to the court

The Warbler

climber
the edge of America

Jan 26, 2013 - 07:27pm PT
...how interesting it is that women get called upon to bear the burden of proof and to justify concretely their position and men just get to say, "It's our nature, get over it."

If a person, even a woman, accuses somebody of a crime, like distributing underage porn, she should bear the burden of proof to justify her charge. This is America - innocence 'til proven guilty, first amendment and all that.

Don't get me wrong - I personally have zero desire to look at partially naked women who look underage or especially those who are underage. I'm just defending the principles of freedom of speech, and the rule of law, and calling bullshit on whoever, male or female, imposes their morality on others coupled with unsupported libelous accusations of what amounts to criminal activity.

I get why women are angry about it, but morphing that anger into false accusations isn't the way to deal with it.

I have no witty rejoinder here Michelle.....I suspect that my mouth is dropped open and my brow is in a confused frown.

Considering it....

OK, all I got is that I would prefer not to see anyone start a new thread with pictures of this "Vagina roll up" trick you have. The discussion after the thread in question threads (I think there were 3 or 4 threads started complaining about it being taken down, posted on or put up) appears to be exhausting to all and the "discussing" *cough*argueing*cough* is heading to well over post 400 on this one and no let up. Thank you and BTW, The Warblers right.

I'd like us all to treat each other with more respect, regardless of sex or age, but this being the internet and all, won't happen in my life time.

Take care all.
locker

Social climber
state of Kumbaya...

Jan 26, 2013 - 09:54pm PT

...

The Warbler

climber
the edge of America

Jan 26, 2013 - 09:58pm PT
I have no witty rejoinder here Michelle

I have about ten, but I don't wanna start a pussy riot, so I'll hold my tongue

And thanks for backin' me up, couchmaster

And I'm all about the Johnny Winter, LOCKER
locker

Social climber
state of Kumbaya...

Jan 26, 2013 - 10:07pm PT

...

The Warbler

climber
the edge of America

Jan 26, 2013 - 10:14pm PT
Some girls roll it up

^^^Some roll it out^^^
Riley Wyna

Trad climber
A crack near you

Jan 26, 2013 - 10:24pm PT
Reilly, I've read your posts on this thread and I have to say...

You're ridiculous, and hypocritical.
You drag t*r through the mud, then state you "like" her.

Damn disgusting.
Do you want to spray some more about getting boob photos, or would you like to talk about your "marriage/separation" during that time period??

Let me know. Until then, stop acting like the saint you are not.

~Leggs

You make some good points...
I am extremely evil...I will try to do better

Jim Brennan

Trad climber
Vancouver Canada

Jan 26, 2013 - 10:31pm PT
Wrong Riley but this is what young men think:

Jan 26, 2013 - 11:27pm PT
When confronted to prove the models were underage, LP balked. When confronted about her personal definition of porn vs the legal one, she balked again.
No balking here, you old goat!
been out having a great time not anywhere near a computer!
I'll get back to you about the history of legislation re child abuse when I have some time for you. You can start by researching the PROTECT Act. and it's reinstatement by the Supreme Court in 2008, and the various state statues that result from it, and the various attempts to use the first amendment to defend abusers in court. What has changed in CPS protocol in the last 10 years etc etc etc....
legal definitions of obscenity, pornography, child, molestation, etc etc etc
it's a hard subject to delve into.

we can have a long conversation about it ... but fer chrissakes don't you get the point YET?!
Jim Brennan

Trad climber
Vancouver Canada

Jan 26, 2013 - 11:37pm PT
If your point was based on the Boob thread and it's contents, the "youths" on display were legally exploited because they were of age and presumably gave consent. ( at least according to I Hate Plastic)

Through the prism of middle age the seemingly creepy pics did indeed seem creepy but only in context to the age of the subjects and the age of the viewers.

That's the issue and once again, prepubescent means before puberty, not during or immediately after. There were no pictures of children posted.
toadgas

Jan 27, 2013 - 08:30am PT
And on it continues, with take-down attempts at minimizing, taunting and flagrant as#@&%e behavior of "You're making a serious discussion? Here -let me throw in a shot of chicks having (photo-simulated) sex, to keep the creeps rallied and interested."

Jim Brennen is polite and makes his points without resorting to cheap tactics, but I do find his claim of "no prepubescent" as interesting. I believe that puberty in females is defined as commencing with the onset of the first menstruation. How can anyone here "know" those girls in the images at question had passed this stage in life?

Someone had claimed earlier that they backtracked the images, and came to model release disclosure information on the site. They did not provide links to that information. I wonder whether such a link on a website featuring images of young-in-appearance subjects in sexualized scenes is any more that a simple "stamp of authority" put up in case someone comes across the images, questions the legality so that they see this disclaimer and go "Okay, all good to go."

Would it be possible for that person to post the link to that web page? That would be beneficial, in my view.

I would also be interested in seeing those images "in context" to the site from which they came, out of curiosity. Were those the least suggestive images from the site? Were they the "front" images for a gateway to something else? Just wondering.

On another point, Largo wrote:

earlier sentence touches on what I mentioned earlier - strong reactions usually denote a history of sorts, often untoward, so sensitivity is indicated. It's mostly about the involuntary associations that accrue to a person, place or thing which determines our views; and everyone's past is not a glorious sunset. That's why a seemingly benign thread about a body part can trigger a Gorilla Monsoon of guff and emotional arcing.

Originally I thought he was suggesting people might consider being sensitive to others, considering the possibility that these images were upsetting for a very ugly reason, and one which most men here would loudly rail against if asked their opinion on sexual abuse.

But now I wonder if he wasn't just saying "Those expressing discomfort/upset are more sensitive because they were abused."

If the former - it goes worth saying that it has been well documented that at least 1 in 4 women in the US has been manipulated or forced into sex by the time she was 18 years of age. Personally, I think it is more than one in four. I'm not really even 100% sure I have ever met a woman who hasn't experienced that(though I certainly don't want any women I know of to believe that I look at them and think "probably has been." It's just an awareness that came to my mind as I was typing just now).

I don't mean to suggest anyone ought to "disclose" their freedom from being sexually abused as a minor, but I am pretty sure, in all the discussions I have had over the years, that I have never had a woman say they had made it to 18 without being molested.

I've seem plenty get uncomfortable in being part of a discussion of the matter, others listen silently and express sympathy with a look of fear in their eyes, others who tell me they don't remember many years of their childhood, including one who cannot recall ANYTHING between the years of 10 to 14), which can be an indication of trauma.

At any rate - if you KNOW that at least SOME of the women in this forum have had that trauma, is it too much to ask to behave with a modicum of respect? At least stop the taunting, trivializing, and gang-mentality intimidation baloney.

If the latter - yes. For me, at least, body memories are a "sensitivity issue" I experience(I assume most here know, or do now, that I am one of the "1 in 4" women). It was not the images in that thread that triggered them in me, but a post made by one person, intended to taunt t*r, and the subsequent(though small) gang pile-on in support, and the intimidation/minimization tactics that have been deployed against people in the various related threads. It probably comes from having my 8 year old sister come to me, as a nine year old, seeking help; disclosing that she had been forced to perform fellatio on a grown man. When I declared the action we'd take - what to me was the obvious thing to do (go to our mother) - she told me that he had "explained" how her mother wouldn't understand, would be jealous of her and might hate her out of that jealously. At least so long as she was alive. Because the knowledge of "their secret" would break her mother's heart, and that her mother would die from that heartbreak.

And for those who would suggest I seek professional help, believe me when I tell you I have been through quite a bit of it and have made extraordinary progress. That I am here telling you this small fraction of my story is one testament to that. To tell me "seek help" is nice - but in some cases I know what is actually going on with that suggestion. The person is uncomfortable with a woman who won't shut her mouth when politely asked, or the person is feeling discomfort themselves - which is their business and not mine.

Thank you to those who have refrained from hurling at me some of the sh#t they seem to have no problem hurling at others. But I must remind you - those men and women are "my sisters and brothers" and I will not let you shut us up.

bvb

Social climber
flagstaff arizona

Jan 27, 2013 - 08:46am PT
Ladies (and Gentlemen), we may not all agree on every fine point of this but I think it is vital we all continue to speak truth to power.

Gilroy

Social climber
Boulderado

Jan 27, 2013 - 09:01am PT
Ladies and Gentlemen, we may not all agree on every fine point of this but I think it is vital we all continue to speak truth to power.

Knew that's what you meant. Fixed it for you, bvb. Wish the rest was as easy to fix.

Riley Wyna

Trad climber
A crack near you

Jan 27, 2013 - 09:07am PT
bvb

Social climber
flagstaff arizona

Jan 27, 2013 - 09:11am PT
Not as on point vis-a-vis the dysfuntional gender politics we are enduring here, but Neil Young is always apropos!
locker

Jan 27, 2013 - 09:28am PT
And on it continues, with take-down attempts at minimizing, taunting and flagrant as#@&%e behavior of "You're making a serious discussion? Here -let me throw in a shot of chicks having (photo-simulated) sex, to keep the creeps rallied and interested."

Jim Brennen is polite and makes his points without resorting to cheap tactics, but I do find his claim of "no prepubescent" as interesting. I believe that puberty in females is defined as commencing with the onset of the first menstruation. How can anyone here "know" those girls in the images at question had passed this stage in life?

Someone had claimed earlier that they backtracked the images, and came to model release disclosure information on the site. They did not provide links to that information. I wonder whether such a link on a website featuring images of young-in-appearance subjects in sexualized scenes is any more that a simple "stamp of authority" put up in case someone comes across the images, questions the legality so that they see this disclaimer and go "Okay, all good to go."

Would it be possible for that person to post the link to that web page? That would be beneficial, in my view.

I would also be interested in seeing those images "in context" to the site from which they came, out of curiosity. Were those the least suggestive images from the site? Were they the "front" images for a gateway to something else? Just wondering.

On another point, Largo wrote:

earlier sentence touches on what I mentioned earlier - strong reactions usually denote a history of sorts, often untoward, so sensitivity is indicated. It's mostly about the involuntary associations that accrue to a person, place or thing which determines our views; and everyone's past is not a glorious sunset. That's why a seemingly benign thread about a body part can trigger a Gorilla Monsoon of guff and emotional arcing.

Originally I thought he was suggesting people might consider being sensitive to others, considering the possibility that these images were upsetting for a very ugly reason, and one which most men here would loudly rail against if asked their opinion on sexual abuse.

But now I wonder if he wasn't just saying "Those expressing discomfort/upset are more sensitive because they were abused."

If the former - it goes worth saying that it has been well documented that at least 1 in 4 women in the US has been manipulated or forced into sex by the time she was 18 years of age. Personally, I think it is more than one in four. I'm not really even 100% sure I have ever met a woman who hasn't experienced that(though I certainly don't want any women I know of to believe that I look at them and think "probably has been." It's just an awareness that came to my mind as I was typing just now).

I don't mean to suggest anyone ought to "disclose" their freedom from being sexually abused as a minor, but I am pretty sure, in all the discussions I have had over the years, that I have never had a woman say they had made it to 18 without being molested.

I've seem plenty get uncomfortable in being part of a discussion of the matter, others listen silently and express sympathy with a look of fear in their eyes, others who tell me they don't remember many years of their childhood, including one who cannot recall ANYTHING between the years of 10 to 14), which can be an indication of trauma.

At any rate - if you KNOW that at least SOME of the women in this forum have had that trauma, is it too much to ask to behave with a modicum of respect? At least stop the taunting, trivializing, and gang-mentality intimidation baloney.

If the latter - yes. For me, at least, body memories are a "sensitivity issue" I experience(I assume most here know, or do now, that I am one of the "1 in 4" women). It was not the images in that thread that triggered them in me, but a post made by one person, intended to taunt t*r, and the subsequent(though small) gang pile-on in support, and the intimidation/minimization tactics that have been deployed against people in the various related threads. It probably comes from having my 8 year old sister come to me, as a nine year old, seeking help; disclosing that she had been forced to perform fellatio on a grown man. When I declared the action we'd take - what to me was the obvious thing to do (go to our mother) - she told me that he had "explained" how her mother wouldn't understand, would be jealous of her and might hate her out of that jealously. At least so long as she was alive. Because the knowledge of "their secret" would break her mother's heart, and that her mother would die from that heartbreak.

And for those who would suggest I seek professional help, believe me when I tell you I have been through quite a bit of it and have made extraordinary progress. That I am here telling you this small fraction of my story is one testament to that. To tell me "seek help" is nice - but in some cases I know what is actually going on with that suggestion. The person is uncomfortable with a woman who won't shut her mouth when politely asked, or the person is feeling discomfort themselves - which is their business and not mine.

Thank you to those who have refrained from hurling at me some of the sh#t they seem to have no problem hurling at others. But I must remind you - those men and women are "my sisters and brothers" and I will not let you shut us up.

Bravo!

All the vermin's here need to read this instead of jerking off.

She captures the nuances of female sexuality very well and WHY it is a very sensitive subject and the fact that female sexuality is so very little understood even to this day.

Jan 27, 2013 - 09:56am PT
careful boys, its that cocky attitude that was and still is one of the main problems in past sex threads and this current thread according to happiegirl
locker

Social climber
state of Kumbaya...

Jan 27, 2013 - 09:56am PT

"All the vermin's here"...

Jennie

Trad climber
Elk Creek, Idaho

Jan 27, 2013 - 10:00am PT
Exemplary post Happiegirl...one of the most germane I've seen on the web. Thanks for expending the effort in face of a hard-boiled crowd.

The last wheel fell off the boobie wagon days before the "innocent Jill" images were posted. I wouldn't single out IHP as cad when many posted photos with an exploitive implication.

...I have doubts most here will "get it". Most of the assemblage seems to think the complaint is against nudity or exhibiting certain body parts, rather than moral insinuations and social consequences of how genders are portrayed relative to one another in some of these depictions. Art or photography can be obscene without ANY nudity if it glorifies dominion and control over others, slavery, imperious violence, dehumanization, exploitation etc.
happiegrrrl

Jan 27, 2013 - 10:00am PT
Regarding the psych links, as they pertain to me(not suggesting anyone is suggesting they do, but in general we human do think subsequent posts on the internet are "about us" as a natural response, even at times when they are not):

To the "unconscious victim" one, I am no victim. I am a warrior.

Regarding what I assume are descriptives on personality disorders: I have been to the shrink, and I have been in women's workshops led by professionals in the field. I'm aware of each of those, and don't fall into the categories. That's not my self-diagnosis, by the way.

But, I am curious - May I ask for clarification from those who posted them as to their reasoning behind suggesting others ought to review that information?
The Warbler

climber
the edge of America

Jan 27, 2013 - 10:02am PT
canyoncat

Social climber
SoCal

Jan 27, 2013 - 10:05am PT
Oh for pity's sake. Is it too much to ask for those who have all these personal issues that have required years of therapy (and made "significant gains") to keep their sorry ass problems to themselves, and stop trying to push them upon women in general? It isn't all about YOU. While we're about it, could men please stop trying to "speak up for" the women who've run off whining and crying, saying they've been intimidated. They should speak for themselves. Oh, I forgot, they're too damn weak.

Women, if you've been intimidated stop running. Stop whining. Stop crying and sniveling. Just deal. Men like boobs. That isn't a bad thing. It is NOT responsible for burqhas. Get real. The problems of the world are not due to naked breasts on display.

In short, harden the f*ck up already.
Tarbuster

climber
right here, right now

Jan 27, 2013 - 10:05am PT
There's probably a kernel here, something like "don't get between someone and their pain".
Work it out people!
locker

Social climber
state of Kumbaya...

Jan 27, 2013 - 10:10am PT

Mostly AMERICANS of course (Speaking of STUPIDITY)...

part-time communist

Mountain climber

Jan 27, 2013 - 10:12am PT
Oh for pity's sake. Is it too much to ask for those who have all these personal issues that have required years of therapy (and made "significant gains") to keep their sorry ass problems to themselves, and stop trying to push them upon women in general? It isn't all about YOU. While we're about it, could men please stop trying to "speak up for" the women who've run off whining and crying, saying they've been intimidated. They should speak for themselves. Oh, I forgot, they're too damn weak.

Women, if you've been intimidated stop running. Stop whining. Stop crying and sniveling. Just deal. Men like boobs. That isn't a bad thing. It is NOT responsible for burqhas. Get real. The problems of the world are not due to naked breasts on display.

In short, harden the f*ck up already.

this is exactly the problem. Women being thrown up against the "male standard". The "male standard" is not a male standard, it is treated as THE standard.

locker

Social climber
state of Kumbaya...

Jan 27, 2013 - 10:14am PT

...

Riley Wyna

Trad climber
A crack near you

Jan 27, 2013 - 10:20am PT
But, I am curious - May I ask for clarification from those who posted them as to their reasoning behind suggesting others ought to review that information?

No definitely not you Happiegirl - you are pretty darn wonderful and normal..
WE all have our issues - no Saints and no perfect people anywhere.
But there are people, a few, who are truly sick.

I just put it out there for the people in the know..

Psych is very hard - when I first take clinical psych 20 years ago everyone in the class diagnosed themselves with everything and it was scary in an lol way..
After 20 years it is still an evolving field - you tend to meet lots of different types in ERs. I have always tried to help these folks as much as possible - but some are so incredibly beyond help it is hard to understand.
You can't help many but you don't want to enable them either.

I have always been a sucker for a hot chick, big breasts and a sad tale - story of my life..

I think Locker has a lot of psych training as well.
locker

Social climber
state of Kumbaya...

Jan 27, 2013 - 10:23am PT

My info was for EVERYONE to read...

No one in particular...

Just pointing out how EASY it can be to PLAY the "Victim" card...

and as the aritcle I posted pointed out...

we ALL do it, at times...

So IF you're trying to MAKE it about YOU...

it will be...

Anastasia

climber
InLOVEwithAris.

Jan 27, 2013 - 10:26am PT
Canyoncat

Dude, Stop where you are. Your digging yourself into a grave. Don't ever tell a woman over the age of twelve that she is whining, sniveling, etc. EVEN IF SHE IS YOU ARE NOT ALLOWED TO COMMENT... If you do, you will become a target for all the wrongs of the world. You will find yourself in a special hell that only a woman can create. She and all her family and friends will NEVER forgive you.

That's it. Just ask any married man who has lasted ten years or more... This is the only way to survive. (Yes, I am advising you like a sister and I am only going to do this once. After this, you are on your own.)

Locker,

I think she is just sharing a point of view. It's not about her or I, it's about being aware of others and why they might feel threatened. I think it's a valid point even though I personally don't share it.

Plus Locker, you Know I don't play the victim card. Confused, upset, yes. A victim... Nah, I've hurt myself and the only way one can overcome hurt is by taking control over what is the possible. I can't control others, but I sure as heck can control my reaction to them, how I set myself up, live, etc. Life is stranger than fiction, that's for sure.

Jan 27, 2013 - 10:26am PT
Just deal. Men like boobs. That isn't a bad thing. .....Get real. The problems of the world are not due to naked breasts on display.

In THESE post-Boobs thread threads, the problem has not been about men liking boobs at all! Why do some continue to insist(and you, Canyoncat insist in the above) that is the discussion we are having?

WHY should we shut our mouths because YOU don't like what is coming out of them. Take your OWN advice(not Canyoncat specifically) and "deal." But since your invective does seemed aimed at me:
I don't have any sorry ass problems. "Sorry" that the image of an 8 year old coming to her 9 year old sister, and asking her to decide the fate of her life is a "sorry ass" problem in your eyes.

It was after some consideration that I decided to create that imagery(which is factual and an understated version, in case one misinterperates the word "imagery". "Sorry" it is offensive to your senses. Take your own advice and - just deal. Women like discussing things instead of ignoring them.

To say I pushed anything on women in general is bullshit - especially when I made an effort to clarify that point specifically! That viewpoint is your projection - not what is actually going on.
locker

Social climber
state of Kumbaya...

Jan 27, 2013 - 10:33am PT

This one can be a DOOZY...

Almost impossible to see...(Often easy for others to see... Hard for the person of concern)...

Jan 27, 2013 - 10:38am PT
Oh for pity's sake. Is it too much to ask for those who have all these personal issues that have required years of therapy (and made "significant gains") to keep their sorry ass problems to themselves, and stop trying to push them upon women in general? It isn't all about YOU. While we're about it, could men please stop trying to "speak up for" the women who've run off whining and crying, saying they've been intimidated. They should speak for themselves. Oh, I forgot, they're too damn weak.

Women, if you've been intimidated stop running. Stop whining. Stop crying and sniveling. Just deal. Men like boobs. That isn't a bad thing. It is NOT responsible for burqhas. Get real. The problems of the world are not due to naked breasts on display.

In short, harden the f*ck up already.

Thank you for restoring my faith in women Canyoncat. That took some balls to post up ; )

One of my pet peeves is women who demand to be treated as equals to men when it is to their advantage, but not equally if it isn't.

Women are not equal to men, hence the discord. Women have their unfair built in powers, men have theirs - it might actually balance out overall, somehow. But equal? No way.

Opposites attract. The battle of the sexes rages on.
locker

Social climber
state of Kumbaya...

Jan 27, 2013 - 10:41am PT

What did I miss???...

WHO is this about???...

"Sorry" that the image of an 8 year old coming to her 9 year old sister, and asking her to decide the fate of her life is a "sorry ass" problem in your eyes."...

EDITED:

???...

Anastasia

climber
InLOVEwithAris.

Jan 27, 2013 - 10:42am PT
Hey Happie,

Just give them a beer and walk away. Some guys are hopeless. Seriously not worth the effort. At least they are fun to watch as they fumble around through life wondering about obvious things.
locker

Social climber
state of Kumbaya...

Jan 27, 2013 - 10:45am PT

Anastasia...

"Just give them a beer and walk away"...

Alcohol LOWERS inhibitions...

MIGHT NOT BE SUCH A GUD IDEA!!!...

LOL!!!...
part-time communist

Mountain climber

Jan 27, 2013 - 10:49am PT
hey wasn't it a dude who started this thread whining in the first place?
locker

Don't those rules apply only to a dude who is trying to pursue the act or actively f*#king a chick?

as a side note: one of the top 3 or 4 rules of psychotherapy is do not assume, followed closely by the other golden rule: do not judge.
Anastasia

climber
InLOVEwithAris.

Jan 27, 2013 - 11:01am PT
Nah...

It's about limiting the drama in your life. But I believe despite hearing so many claims that men don't like drama... You Guys Really LOVE drama. ST is full of it, full of assumptions, personal attacks and gossip, lots of b.s.

Jan 27, 2013 - 11:08am PT
Anastasia, I will walk away when I choose to walk away, but thanks for your concern.

Know when to hold up, fold up, walk away, run....If the series of posts were rounds in a card game, I am simply holding up my hand, at this point, when I post.

The time to fold, was when the Boobs thread was removed(which does not seem to have had anything to do with women voicing an opinion on the thread, as was suggested earlier). Instead of folding, a few men, who liked boobs, were unable to stop whining, crying and sniveling and just deal.

They didn't and here we are.

Why not tell those I was communicating with to just go get a beer and walk away? That Happiegrrl is "hopeless"(I don;t mean that negatively, but that I would not change my viewpoint)?

That would probably be the action more likely to stop the discourse. I am a Taurus: bull-headed. They stop posting invectives - there will be no reason to continue the conversation. I wouldn't consider it any sort of a coup, personally or for women in general, if that happened. But it would be a win for the Supertopo site.

Captain...or Skully

climber

Jan 27, 2013 - 11:09am PT
Eff that. I say what I wish, when I wish & how I goddam wish.
If you don't like it, that's on you.
locker

Social climber
state of Kumbaya...

Jan 27, 2013 - 11:10am PT

Another "Side note":

"as a side note: one of the top 3 or 4 rules of psychotherapy "...

Uh...

this ISN'T psychotherapy...

So the "RULES" do not necessarily apply...

The Warbler

climber
the edge of America

Jan 27, 2013 - 11:11am PT
You Guys Really LOVE drama

More like it's the price we pay to "get along" with the girls we LOVE.
Michelle

Trad climber
Toshi's Station, picking up power converters.

Jan 27, 2013 - 11:12am PT
Quack :)
The Larry

climber
Moab, UT

Jan 27, 2013 - 11:16am PT
I like eating popcorn.
bvb

Social climber
flagstaff arizona

Jan 27, 2013 - 11:17am PT

Women, if you've been intimidated stop running. Stop whining. Stop crying and sniveling. Just deal. Men like boobs. That isn't a bad thing. It is NOT responsible for burqhas. Get real. The problems of the world are not due to naked breasts on display.

In short, harden the f*ck up already.

This is an excellent paraphrase of the Riot Grrrl perspective/manifesto/POV. Especially the "if you've been intimidated stop running" part. Nothing scares a guy more than a no-nonsense-won't-take-sh#t-woman.
locker

Social climber
state of Kumbaya...

Jan 27, 2013 - 11:17am PT

"I like eating popcorn."...

I like eating something else but I am AFFRAID to say what, for SERIOUS fear of getting SHOT...

I was talking about Peanut M&M's...

Don't shoot me!!!...

Riley Wyna

Trad climber
A crack near you

Jan 27, 2013 - 11:18am PT
Lol - this thread is getting weird!!!

Anastasia has now joined forces with the army that was initially attacking her!!

Holy moly!!
part-time communist

Mountain climber

Jan 27, 2013 - 11:18am PT
Why not tell those I was communicating with to just go get a beer and walk away?

Jan 27, 2013 - 11:21am PT
Anastasia, I will walk away when I choose to walk away, but thanks for your concern.

Know when to hold up, fold up, walk away, run....If the series of posts were rounds in a card game, I am simply holding up my hand, at this point, when I post.

The time to fold, was when the Boobs thread was removed(which does not seem to have had anything to do with women voicing an opinion on the thread, as was suggested earlier). Instead of folding, a few men, who liked boobs, were unable to stop whining, crying and sniveling and just deal.

They didn't and here we are.

Why not tell those I was communicating with to just go get a beer and walk away? That Happiegrrl is "hopeless"(I don;t mean that negatively, but that I would not change my viewpoint)?

That would probably be the action more likely to stop the discourse. I am a Taurus: bull-headed. They stop posting invectives - there will be no reason to continue the conversation. I wouldn't consider it any sort of a coup, personally or for women in general, if that happened. But it would be a win for the Supertopo site.

the sad reality is, despite all this huffing and puffing trying to blow the house down, at the end of the day guys will still want to have their hands on a nice pair of round breasts and women will still be hypersexualized and boys will continue to be boys.
locker

Social climber
state of Kumbaya...

Jan 27, 2013 - 11:22am PT

"Wait, I thought locker WAS the training?"...

I do like to play the "Devils advocate"...

So you're NOT that far off...

;-)

EDITED:

"the sad reality is, despite all this huffing and puffing trying to blow the house down, at the end of the day guys will still want to have their hands on a nice pair of round breasts and women will still be hypersexualized and boys will continue to be boys." and human LIFE will continue...

yea women can't really get away with that type of behavior freely or with a free conscience mainly because at the end of the day, this type of female personality is not attractive to men.
part-time communist

Mountain climber

Jan 27, 2013 - 11:25am PT
people started throwing personality disorders into the mix, so I thought I'd give people a reality check when it comes to the field and the concept of "diagnosis" or classification of mental illness.
Anastasia

climber
InLOVEwithAris.

Jan 27, 2013 - 11:26am PT
It's called getting informed and realizing "WTF!"... Posting underage kids?
Treating some of the women here in abusive manners... What the heck were you guys thinking?

Plus, seriously... You think a woman will not know what an underage girl looks like? How can a man be an expert unless the unthinkable or... Even if you messed around with a girl the same age when you were a kid, you still are not remotely qualified. The only way I can figure that a man would know more is being a doctor.

The fact is people I trust have sent me emails and I am appalled, extremely dismayed by this. I expected better... I believe in better.

Now it's up to you.

bvb

Social climber
flagstaff arizona

Jan 27, 2013 - 11:29am PT

yea women can't really get away with that type of behavior freely or with a free conscience mainly because at the end of the day, this type of female personality is not attractive to men.

Not in my neck of the woods!
Riley Wyna

Trad climber
A crack near you

Jan 27, 2013 - 11:32am PT
Lol - this battle is ending with crazy woman - And ironically it was started by crazy woman..

It never had anything to do with whether looking at boobs was or is bad.
It had everything to do with woman angry because somebody was looking at someone else's boobs instead of theirs!!!
God forbid - someone else's boobs get more attention than their boobs!!

Jan 27, 2013 - 11:42am PT
when a man posts a picture of a beautiful woman and her boobs, it immediately comes across as an act of power on the part of the man and can be a rather oppressive, intimidating sensation.

locker

Social climber
state of Kumbaya...

Jan 27, 2013 - 11:43am PT

"Why are Republicans Wrong about Everything?"...

Because they're TOO, "Serious"...
locker

Social climber
state of Kumbaya...

Jan 27, 2013 - 11:44am PT

"Yes that's obvious. A sane woman would not get married.

What's your point Locker?"...

^^^

See...

NUTS!!!...

;-)

Riley Wyna

Trad climber
A crack near you

Jan 27, 2013 - 11:47am PT
Anastasia - think back to the first time you and TR met - it might start to make more sense..lol
I wasn't there that weekend but three ST guys i have talked to in the last week, who where there, have brought it up..

AS far as the teenage girl stuff - I only clicked on the silly thread one time - so I am not sure who people are talking about.
But if folks were posting anything approaching young girls that is f*#king disgusting. Being as I live in house with three woman and two of them are underage.
And yes - I have a strong instinct to kill pedophiles of every kind!
Big Mike

Trad climber
BC

Jan 27, 2013 - 11:52am PT
Dude, Stop where you are. Your digging yourself into a grave. Don't ever tell a woman over the age of twelve that she is whining, sniveling, etc. EVEN IF SHE IS YOU ARE NOT ALLOWED TO COMMENT... If you do, you will become a target for all the wrongs of the world. You will find yourself in a special hell that only a woman can create. She and all her family and friends will NEVER forgive you.

That's it. Just ask any married man who has lasted ten years or more... This is the only way to survive. (Yes, I am advising you like a sister and I am only going to do this once. After this, you are on your own.)

Hey Ana, I'm pretty sure canyoncat is a woman.....
Riley Wyna

Trad climber
A crack near you

Jan 27, 2013 - 11:53am PT
when a man posts a picture of a beautiful woman and her boobs, it immediately comes across as an act of power on the part of the man and can be a rather oppressive, intimidating sensation.

what are you talking about?? lol
Your entire posting history here is posting pictures of your tits and ass!
lol

And you also need to learn the difference between psycho-analytical jibberish and actual treatment and diagnosis.
Norton

Social climber
the Wastelands

Jan 27, 2013 - 11:54am PT
But if folks were posting anything approaching young girls that is f*#king disgusting

yes, especially towards the end, there was a lot of that going on

doesn't matter a bit if the girls were under 18 or not, the point is that they look like it

it was wrong to post those pics, and guess what?

guys don't get to be the "judges" of what is appropriate to post of women's bodys

women get to decide that, period
locker

Social climber
state of Kumbaya...

Jan 27, 2013 - 11:56am PT

"AS far as the teenage girl stuff - I only clicked on the silly thread one time - so I am not sure who people are talking about.
But if folks were posting anything approaching young girls that is f*#king disgusting."...

Am I one of the ONLY ones that saw those shots???...

At the end of the thread, there were at least TWO photo's of what APPEARED to be underage females (Notice the word, "APPEARED")...

Even I questioned them being posted here and posted as much on the thread...

To me it doesn't matter IF they were underage or not...

The IMAGE was for sure to PORTRAY them as VERY young and I can FULLY UNDERSTAND why CMac would want them GONE and WHY some woman and MEN here didn't find them very tasteful...(Me included)

I totally AGREE that posting them went too far and I'd guess that IHP was well aware that they would bring some HEAT...

yea, I was trying to reverse the roles in a complex project of the intellect. Sort of like an examination of culture and gender. Different from how or why guys post pics of boobs.
part-time communist

Mountain climber

Jan 27, 2013 - 11:58am PT
And you also need to learn the difference between psycho-analytical jibberish and actual treatment and diagnosis.

LOL. I am a trained professional, dipsh#t.

Have you had your c*#k sucked recently? If so, settle down.
Anastasia

climber
InLOVEwithAris.

Jan 27, 2013 - 11:58am PT
Riley,

That is neither here nor there. I do remember and it's not important. The goal to this life is to grow. T.R. at that time was in a growth spurt... Yes, there was some silly stuff yet... Even though it isn't recommended, shiest sure does make plants flourish.

Even though everyone alive gets dirty in it, I hope we all use it to better ourselves instead of using it to make others smaller.

Especially this recent b.s.

Please... If you guys can do me a favor, do this... Those who said mean stuff, "you know who you are." Private Message an Apology to the people you said it to. It's just the descent thing to do.

As for the rest, let it go...

AFS
philo

Trad climber
Is that light the end of the tunnel or a train?

Jan 27, 2013 - 11:58am PT

Have you had your c*#k sucked recently? If so, settle down.

Credit: philo

Or as the old computer programers used to say; Garbage in Garbage out.
locker

Jan 27, 2013 - 12:01pm PT
Is a trained professional Dip-Sh#t that much better than an amateur one?
SCseagoat

Trad climber
Santa Cruz

Jan 27, 2013 - 12:02pm PT
I totally AGREE that posting them went too far and I'd guess that, IHP was well aware that they would bring some HEAT...

JUST my opinion...

NOTHING MORE!!!...

Only holds weight to me and even then, it's not always the case...

;-)

Yup! Exactly

Susan
philo

Trad climber
Is that light the end of the tunnel or a train?

Jan 27, 2013 - 12:04pm PT
At least this drivelling psychobabble has kept the gun nutter threads off page one.
So I give this phaff and whinge-fest two BOOBs up!
Big Mike

Trad climber
BC

Jan 27, 2013 - 12:04pm PT
Lol!
Anastasia

climber
InLOVEwithAris.

Jan 27, 2013 - 12:07pm PT
Yup,

...and there is a reason some girls only have male friends. I use to be like that, until I figured a few things out.

Same rules apply to us dealing with our own gender. Once we get it, yeah... A whole lot less drama. Women are actually pretty wonderful friends once you treat them appropriately. In fact, once you figure it out, most of them actually have a bit less drama than guys. Compare their drama to ST... It incredibly less drama. Tons and tons of less drama...

AFS
locker

Social climber
state of Kumbaya...

Jan 27, 2013 - 12:10pm PT

Here I go again...

Heading out on that fuking LIMB...

EDITED:

That wasn't going to go well for me...

LOL!!!...
philo

Trad climber
Is that light the end of the tunnel or a train?

Jan 27, 2013 - 12:23pm PT
Anastasia I respect you (and most of the ST women) immensely. I can empathize with the concerns expressed by several female posters. Yes, traumas in our pasts can have dramatic effects on our nows. So I am bummed the reason d'etre for the original BOOBS thread has been lost in all the chaff and choss. When I was serving in Africa I had the ever so pleasant experience of having another mans blood and brains sprayed across my face when he was shot in the head at close range. So I am a little bothered that the post Sandy Hook threads became - Look at my BIG GUN show and tells.
We live in a culture that glorifies violence and demonizes sexuality. Is it any wonder that the two commingle and that sexually repressed men turn to violent means for gratification? In some ways isn't it what is to be expected? Can it be changed? Do we want to change it?

Anastasia

climber
InLOVEwithAris.

Jan 27, 2013 - 12:32pm PT
We do...

But sometimes I think it gets worse instead of better. Women fought for equal rights. The right to work, be educated, drive a car, to be allowed into the sport of climbing, etc. So now it gets twisted...

Somehow instead of making us have more options, we got lost... We now must have a great full time job, raise perfect kids while working forty hours a week, be highly educated, be beautiful and sexy, clean the house, stay fit and take a hit like a man. The expectations are getting ridicules. I think now women are regressing, going against feminism because at least our previous roles were well defined and "manageable." It does not make men right, instead it's a sign of great failure for us all as a society.

That's my two cents.

P.S. Also because women are failing against these impossible new standards, some men are using it to confirm their domination, that women somehow can't hack it... They were somehow right for their male chauvinistic approach to life. Never mind they can't achieve those standards themselves... It's really sad. I also feel really bad that in order for a woman to be in a dominate role, many don't have role models to shape their behavior and end up using the old bitch card. Plus, society placing young woman on pedestals as being the ideal. It has created a world without elders, without the respect for wisdom they could teach us. Old means wasted, not wise sadly applies to both men and women. It's a great loss...
part-time communist

Mountain climber

Jan 27, 2013 - 12:34pm PT
Women fought for equal rights. The right to work, be educated, drive a car, to be allowed into the sport of climbing, etc.

the only remaining thing left to do is fight against the male standard. Work, education, car driving, climbing is all done in accordance to the male standard.
part-time communist

Mountain climber

Jan 27, 2013 - 12:35pm PT
Somehow instead of making us have more options, we got lost... We now must have a great full time job, raise perfect kids while working forty hours a week, be highly educated, be beautiful and sexy, clean the house, stay fit and take a hit like a man. The expectations are getting ridicules. I think now women are regressing, going against feminism because at least our previous roles were well defined and "manageable." It does not make men right, instead it's a sign of great failure for us all as a society.

yea, in my humble opinion, woman's identity is still an unknown.
locker

Social climber
state of Kumbaya...

Jan 27, 2013 - 12:35pm PT

It may well be the beginning of the end, of MANkind...

philo

Trad climber
Is that light the end of the tunnel or a train?

Jan 27, 2013 - 12:36pm PT
And hopefully the beginning of Kind Men.

Somehow instead of making us have more options, we got lost... We now must have a great full time job, raise perfect kids while working forty hours a week, be highly educated, be beautiful and sexy, clean the house, stay fit and take a hit like a man.

Wait, you mean you don't? :)

Define yourself don't let yourself be defined.
SCseagoat

Trad climber
Santa Cruz

Jan 27, 2013 - 12:43pm PT
the only remaining thing left to do is fight against the male standard. Work, education, car driving, climbing is all done in accordance to the male standard.

WTF is the "male standard". Please give me some criteria. As a generalization I'm not sure what you mean.

Women in combat now, or soon. Is it going to be the "male standard" against which they need to perform or a universal standard of what does it take to get the job done and the troops are safe?

Susan
philo

Trad climber
Is that light the end of the tunnel or a train?

Jan 27, 2013 - 12:45pm PT
^^^ excellent point
locker

Social climber
state of Kumbaya...

Jan 27, 2013 - 12:48pm PT

"WTF is the "male standard". Please give me some criteria"...

Start here!!!...

LOL!!!...

...

EDITED:

I know I already posted the song...

This is a DIFFERENT version...

Michelle

Trad climber
Toshi's Station, picking up power converters.

Jan 27, 2013 - 12:50pm PT
Interesting turn here. I've not made feeling inferior to "men" part of my world view. Maybe I just had a strong matriarchal family structure growing up. I don't like to speculate on the absolutes in the gender equality issue but prefer to focus on the continuum that allows for balance.

edit: Susan, women have already been operating in combat for quite sometime. Physical training standards are based on age and gender. Although, even by the younger male standards I was no slouch. Except running. Hate it!
The Warbler

climber
the edge of America

Jan 27, 2013 - 12:51pm PT
Jeez - I go get a coffee thinking this was chillin' out, and the sh#t just hits the fan!

Excellent!

Being a typical guy, I just love drama...

I can't believe LP called me an "old goat" - she is so insensitive, and I feel so degraded : (

Are you other "old goats" gonna defend me or are you guys just as insensitive?

FWIW, I fell in love with Joshua Ledet on American Idol last year singing that song. The only time I ever saw AI when I was channel surfing and saw him. Ohhhhhh

Susan
part-time communist

Mountain climber

Jan 27, 2013 - 12:56pm PT
Women in combat now, or soon. Is it going to be the "male standard" against which they need to perform or a universal standard of what does it take to get the job done and the troops are safe?

male and universal standard are one and the same thing in our society.

it simply means a standard of how things should be done, a standard which defines excellence and performance. A standard which everything else is judged against. For example, take any sport in our society. This sport exists because it has been deemed as a "worthy pursuit" according to the male standard. Male standards means the dominant standard, a standard through which society leads its day to day happenings. The standard which is pioneered and led by men is generally viewed as "superior" because the male standard is in place when evaluating action, people, and events. Sexuality is understood according to the "dominant male standard" (usually something along the lines of gender differences and sex is natural and biological)

Women, as active participants of the work force and society at large, follow the male standard.
philo

Trad climber
Is that light the end of the tunnel or a train?

Jan 27, 2013 - 12:56pm PT
Warbler the battle was lost long ago ( at least 570 posts ago) we old goats can all commiserate with a round of ship dip.

Bartender let me buy this round a table.
Anastasia

climber
InLOVEwithAris.

Jan 27, 2013 - 01:00pm PT
All I know is women being educated, entering fields that were once exclusive to men is still very new. For those unaware of history it might appear that we've done this forever. Yet in reality it's only been maybe two generations of women experiencing these freedoms. In my own case, I am the first woman in my Mom's family to go to college and leave her parents house without being married. Think on that. Plus in the field of surgery, it is still rare to find women performing and staying until retirement.

I am seriously giving it seven generations for things to balance out, society to really grasp the magnitude of it all. Until then, yes... The battle of the sexes will go on.

On a personal note... When a guy can keep female friends and treat them accordingly and morally correct, that is a sure sign that he might be able to see them beyond their physical uses. When he can't, refuses friendship because it "might" be too tempting, she isn't his physical type, whatever... That says a ton too.
part-time communist

Mountain climber

Jan 27, 2013 - 01:02pm PT
another example of male standard is to favor visual over the psychological. Another example of male standard is to favor logic over emotion.

hence some of the heated response where some of the guys get all worked up and go "its just boobs!!!!!"

well, its more than just boobs. The question of 1. what is important and 2. what are the definition of things and how are words used

those questions are usually addressed in the framework of the male standard (or male norms)
SCseagoat

Trad climber
Santa Cruz

Jan 27, 2013 - 01:03pm PT
it simply means a standard of how things should be done

so open to interpretation...without some "specifics" of what does this male standard "look like" or some metrics it's all in the beholder's mind. If one wants to play the downtrodden "victim" to what they conjure up about unfairness, then so be it. Its a disingenuous argument with no science or verifiable metrics or standards behind it...just conjecture. There are real battles of discrimination to fight, not worth wasting time on the "soap box" of perceived inequalities.

Edit:
Ana, I understand what you say about the evolution of women into once male-dominated fields. My grandma was a suffargette. I was of the generation that burned our bras (which worked for at least several decades until we couldn't pass the pencil test anymore). The point I'm trying to make is then take "action", real action to speed up the process of eliminating discrimination where it really exists. Turning to soapboxes, arm chair ranting and ST forum is time ill spent. Oh geez, if I were younger I would dust off my SDS card (although I never built bombs or robbed banks). Alot of us are good at "spraying and praying" (that something will happen) then leaving the gunt work to someone else. Change requires action, not saliva.

Jan 27, 2013 - 01:06pm PT
I would guess that a :male standard" is to consider things through the viewpoint and experience of males.

One example could be, I think, how recently it was discovered that women and men actually have differing symptoms of heart attack. Until that discovery, the symptoms that men presented were "the standard"(despite plenty of women having had heart attacks which ought to have provided some insight there were variables). Women were going to their doctor with symptoms which didn't fit the "standard" and risked misdiagnosis of impending heart issues.

Or, that women being seen as having primarily a sexual identity, above that of a human one, in media, is the way to utilize female actors, models, spokespeople, etc., because that is the accepted way to sell more products. It is assumed that is what men want, due to media being dominated by men(it still is, by the way, though not by as overwhelming a majority as was the case a generation ago). It may BE the way to sell more product to men, and women may have become desensitized to the point that it goes unnoticed a lot of the time. But if you asked women how they would design an ad for, say floor cleaner, they probably wouldn't make one like this...

This image was found by searching "ads for floor cleaning products + images" on Google, and was the first image displayed, by the way. There was no use of a gender-related keyword in my search.

Of interest might be that the floor that is shown is in a public space. Quick - what does the janitor cleaning that floor look like to you?

Was it a man? Don't women also work in janitorial jobs? I've seen a lot of women doing such work at public spaces, and it might be assumed that some of those women are the ones in charge of deciding what cleaning products their company uses. Do you think that a woman is going to see an ad that gets the floor surface so shiny people can see under women's skirts and think "That's the product for my company!"

Even so, why does the advertiser not care that the ad is pretty offensive, from most woman's standpoints? It might be because of a "male standard" of thinking which tends to minimize the importance of the female customer. I don't know why else.

philo

Trad climber
Is that light the end of the tunnel or a train?

Jan 27, 2013 - 01:09pm PT
Handy Andy. LOL

I am curious if any of you remember your high school biology classes?
SCseagoat

Trad climber
Santa Cruz

Jan 27, 2013 - 01:15pm PT
"the standard"(despite plenty of women having had heart attacks which ought to have provided some insight there were variables). Women were going to their doctor with symptoms which didn't fit the "standard" and risked misdiagnosis of impending heart issues.

Happie, a really good real, identifiable, quantifiable example! That is when progress is made, when we can clearly and specifically define the problem and attack it and change it. Women not having the right to vote was another definable problem...clearly defined, articulated and the result was visible!
If we can't define the problem in specific terms then we all just add our opinion and points of view.

Why am I getting into this? I'm retired from political action, my life is content. I AM NOT dusting off my SDS card...spend too many nights in a cold and clammy clinker ... but I think we made some progress back then, we sure were noisy!

Edit: Happie I wonder if it was female docs or researchers that caught the differences? If it were a team of male docs and researchers what were they trying to rip off from us (LOL)

Another example from my wild days was working (tirelessly, but I was young) for Title IX equality in sports. Some of the younger women on this forum probably take that all for granted. Still lots of work to be done, but sure beats the fact that as a female basketball player I was only allowed to play on half court, and if I was guard I could only go half court on that already half court. And we were only allowed to dribble 3 times. Yes, we were a gentle lot.

Susan
Anastasia

climber
InLOVEwithAris.

Jan 27, 2013 - 01:21pm PT
Sorry... But that is dang funny!

Good point Happy...

I know... I know...
But I have to say it, to me they are just boobs. The part that I, the very person that started the Boob thread that obviously doesn't mind boob pictures... What shocked and angered me "specifically" were the verbal attacks and the underage pictures. Yes, People are allowed to disagree, but how that was done was "Seriously Wrong." Also the kid pictures... That's just plain SCARY Bad. I don't give a hoot if they are somehow of age, or are stated somewhere as being of age. All that can be falsified and the intend was to make them look like kids so it's useless. They looked like children and that's enough.

People need to clean up their act. Try it, might even improve one's life outside of the Taco.

Let me repeat this... I never, ever imagined people going this far. Again, I expected better. I am extremely sorry for the mess. Yes, a joke gone bad but wow... That was something else and way to far...

P.S. I am of the 80's generation that grew up with MTV, Playboy, and big hair. Women were highly objectified in my generation. Lots of equal rights speech but reality was a bit different. My mother's generations was the real thing. Mine... It's way different and yes... My generation is the plastic surgery generation. That says it all.

(In my head I can hear the song my class made as their theme song for our senior float... Here it goes... "She's my Cherry Pie...")

Jan 27, 2013 - 01:32pm PT
I don't recall the gender(s) of researchers who made that discovery, but believe the names of researchers was included in the media reports. So one might be able to easily find out.

This seems to me to have great potential for aiding individuals and grassroots organizations who seek to affect change(not necessarily gender-related, of course).

Could become a powerful aid in helping people bring change and get viewpoints heard beyond what we know often have(send a form letter to your congressman type thing).
Big Mike

Trad climber
BC

Jan 27, 2013 - 01:33pm PT
Just to be clear, I don't approve of underage models either. Not having seen the pics though, I have no basis to form an opinion on them.
part-time communist

Mountain climber

Jan 27, 2013 - 01:45pm PT
A figure I respect a great deal is Catherine MacKinnon. I took a class on Feminism at UCLA and she was one of the figures we read. She hits the nail on the head the closest in my opinion and delves into the real issues such as power and male standards.

MacKinnon discussess the sameness/difference theory of sex equality, its dominance in shaping sex discrimination law and policy, and its flaws (discussed below). The sameness/difference theory is used to frame women’s rights under the law in terms of their sameness to men (e.g. deserving equal pay) or their difference from men (e.g. right of maternity leave).

(hence sex equality and how to make sense of the issue "woman" is framed within the backdrop of the MALE STANDARD)

and...

"Having power means, among other things, that when someone says, 'this is how it is,' it is taken as being that way. . . . Powerlessness means that when you say 'this is how it is,' it is not taken as being that way.-CMac
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA

Jan 27, 2013 - 01:57pm PT
Geez, you wimmen already got the purse strings. Now you're gonna take over
the front lines. When the hell ya gonna be happy?
Anastasia

climber
InLOVEwithAris.

Jan 27, 2013 - 02:05pm PT
Big Mike,

I don't view things in black and white. Even though I really hate bullies and there was a whole lot of bullying going on.. I also don't believe in burning those very people at the stake.

It's also not important for "everyone" to see what happened and take up arms in a mass agreement. No one needs a Parisian Mob to correct the situation. That would only make things worse and be even more mindless. What is important is for the people causing the drama to understand and make amends.

We are adults so we can learn, make an effort to correct past grievances, forgive and grow/move on. Plus no one here has to like each other, but despite this simple fact, we should all respect and be considerate.

The problem was the lack of respect and consideration. They know who they are... They have the power to make right. In the end it really is that simple and the rest of us should stay out of the way.

No one wins, but at least we can salvage a bit from this wreckage. That little bit that can be salvaged is important. I wonder if they will be brave enough to take it on and do the right thing. If not, well... An old Greek saying is that "we create our own hells, the devil simply watches."

moosedrool

Trad climber
lost, far away from Poland

Jan 27, 2013 - 02:08pm PT
Talking about being oppressed. I felt powerless in the gymnasium when there were only 7 boys and 22 girls in our class, and at the university with more girls than boys. So many Boobs! They could do whatever they wanted with me. And it was wonderful! hehehe
bvb

Social climber
flagstaff arizona

Jan 27, 2013 - 02:11pm PT
Is a trained professional Dip-Sh#t that much better than an amateur one?

Who cares? she has a rack that puts me into a mesmerized boobcoma.
The Warbler

climber
the edge of America

Jan 27, 2013 - 02:13pm PT
I'm reminded of the photo that's popped up here before of the "man machine" with the on/off switch and the "woman machine" with 50 different gauges, dials, adjustment knobs and switches.
patrick compton

Jan 27, 2013 - 02:19pm PT
I think the bOObs thread hit a nerve or two because it embodies that kind of male spirit that goes back to primeval roots, which is the spirit of "I'm going to enjoy your body and look at it whether you like it or not." And posting pictures of beautiful women and their boobs satisfies that male impulse and spirit.

The compulsion to post these pictures is probably also a reflection of sexual repression because of all the societal norms and rules in place, men have to walk on their tiptoes in fear of being accused of sexual harassment or assault. And when you can freely post a pic of a beautiful woman and her boobs on a public website, it goes with the whole "I dont give a sh#t, I'm going to be a horny devil and get away with it" mindset. It is sort of an anarchist mentality. A symbolic rape, doing something against anothers wishes. Posting that picture, seeing how far I can take it, etc. which mimics sexual initiation and the pursuit of sex acts.It can also be fueled by a man's mandatory sexual conformity; unfulfilled fantasies, unsatisfactory sex lives with their significant other, etc. In short, the act of posting those pictures of boobs imitates the act of sex; to "act on", to "own", to "affirm", to show others that "I can and will do this." etc. etc. etc.

I think sex, from the biological history perspective, is something women were forced to learn to enjoy, whether they liked it or not. And now it has evolved socially as something women "enjoy."

ALL of it is psychology.
The Warbler

climber
the edge of America

Jan 27, 2013 - 02:20pm PT
The Yogi steps out swinging!!!

Anastasia

climber
InLOVEwithAris.

Jan 27, 2013 - 02:20pm PT
bvb...

When you go to the fair grounds... Do you get lost staring at the balloons?
How about when you see two cantaloupes? Does the word GOOGLE leave you dumbfounded?

Dear Sir, how do you survive with this condition?
Captain...or Skully

climber

Jan 27, 2013 - 02:22pm PT
+1, Werner.

Haha! Kevin's an old goat!
philo

Trad climber
Is that light the end of the tunnel or a train?

Jan 27, 2013 - 02:26pm PT
I think the bOObs thread hit a nerve or two because it embodies that kind of male spirit that goes back to primeval roots, which is the spirit of "I'm going to enjoy your body and look at it whether you like it or not.
^^^Oh horse shit!
The compulsion to post these pictures is probably also a reflection of sexual repression
^^^ Oh and double dipshit!

It was a reaction to the objectification of the bodies of 20 slaughtered children.
Surround your self with all the Freshman College Psychbabble you want.
Create what ever scenario you deem fitting of your narrative and damn the reality.

If you could see a time line of posting you would see a clear correlation of Boob posts to Gun Posts.
It was never intended to be an exercise in puriant misogyny. It sux it devolved as all ST threads do. But get over it and get over yourself.
The Warbler

climber
the edge of America

Jan 27, 2013 - 02:29pm PT
I'm going to enjoy your body and look at it whether you like it or not.

What a crock o' sh#t that is PTC

99% of those women looked happy, if not thrilled, about being photographed, and I'm assuming being the object of men's desire. Or they're faking it to make money. Either way, it's their choice and they benefit one way or another.

Also keep in mind... The world is stranger than fiction, one's logic, morals and the rest does not really work out in this reality in a predictable manner.

I also don't think all the men enjoying the show are perverted, misogamist, male chauvinist, etc. etc. If that is the case... (Looking at Bill.) I'm in trouble.

In old days ankles made men wild, now it's boobs. Seriously, whatever...

What IS wrong are the verbal attacks that were suggesting gang rape... Again WTF was that? Plus those pictures, yadda, yadda, yadda. I've already said it all, hate repeating myself.

I bet if that didn't happen we will still have a boob thread until Big Blue and the cut and paste jokes got it banned. The stuff I am use to from you guys that even though it's tasteless. It's overall harmless.

Jan 27, 2013 - 04:24pm PT
women’s rights under the law in terms of their sameness to men (e.g. deserving equal pay) or their difference from men (e.g. right of maternity leave).

Are you suggesting men aren't entitled to maternity/paternity leave? What century you living in? Again I stand by my assertion that a bunch of talk about big ideas and how unfair things are do not address where the rubber hits the road. Pick an area where you feel unfair discrimination is based solely on gender and both genders are equally capable of effective results and go do something about it. Talk is cheap.

I took a class on Feminism

Let me know when you take a class, or can even find one on Masculinity. Then I'll know you're serious about gender equity ... Very different from gender equality....

Might want to get a bit in touch with reality here.
part-time communist

Mountain climber

Jan 27, 2013 - 04:52pm PT
I'm not going to get into my personal life because it is tacky to do so, but I will do say that I fight gender discrimination in my own day to day life, every single day of the month and every single day of the year.

Also, why are women being allowed in military combat if everyone is griping so much about inadequate female performance in SAR and firefighter and police teams?

I call bullshit and males griping about it are purely sexist because seeing a woman in a police uniform is somehow "not right" or "just doesn't fit" in their opinion.

The fact that women get discouraged and seem apathetic in physical-based tasks in the mentioned jobs may not be because of female physical limitations, but more the fault of men and how they operate and the bar they set (the men determine what makes a job well done, etc.) If men are the ones that set the bar on a job task in favor of THEM succeeding (in other words creating the standard) its no wonder that women are set to fail. I read an article which captures this sentiment well. They were examining why there are less female students in the sciences, engineering, and mathematics. Well, research suggested it was not so much because of some sort of mumbo jumbo brain wiring differences in the genders, but because of how these academic institutions are structured: to favor male inclinations towards competition and analytic oriented methods of thinking and very individual based striving for success, which may alienate many prospective female students from entering those fields and succeeding in them. Kind of like growing squid or something along those lines, if you want one of the genders to succeed, you have to adjust the Ph of the water. Adjusting Ph's in societal language means revising norms and standards.

What a crock o' sh#t that is PTC

99% of those women looked happy, if not thrilled, about being photographed, and I'm assuming being the object of men's desire. Or they're faking it to make money. Either way, it's their choice and they benefit one way or another.

Not all women have hangups about their bodies and sex.

you would be surprised how much of women's sexuality emerges as a result of being imposed on them. Start off with the amount of attention young women start receiving (attention they receive whether they like it or not) once they mature into young women, all that attention is bound to impose sexuality on them because when you receive that type of attention, sharp poignant sexual attention directed at you, you can't help but start feeling sexy. Later when that young woman starts becoming sexually active, this experience inevitably arises. The man says "you like it, don't you?" and the woman (maybe has no choice) but to submissively say "yes" because culturally its the norm to "want" sex and to "enjoy" sex. But once again cultural norms gets into the sticky land of "male standards." This is not female sexuality, its male sexuality that women then adopt and start to find pleasure in.

heres a testament from my own experiences: When I was younger, like 16 or 17 and 18 years, I had no clue on what sex is and sexuality and would start getting unwanted attention from passerby's and the sh#t (men) when I would just walk around in public. I really didn't know how to make sense of any of it.

women will not get anywhere if they are afraid to hold controversial and unpopular viewpoints. The older women in this thread getting all catty with me because I have a youthful fine piece of ass goes nowhere.

Captain...or Skully

climber

Jan 27, 2013 - 04:57pm PT
Seriously, Juanista?
part-time communist

Mountain climber

Jan 27, 2013 - 05:01pm PT
Also, I would be very curious to have someone do more studies on female performance in physically demanding jobs such as SAR and firefighting.

I would wonder the following

1. Would all-women teams perform stronger and better?

2. Do the interaction between the sexes get in the way from optimal female physical performance on the job?

3. Do men maybe overcompensate in physical aggressiveness and strength and prowess on the job simply by a heightened surge of testosterone when they have females on their team?

4. Do women emotionally and psychologically begin to feel alienated because sexually-driven bullying tactics begin to form such as men banding together. (I've observed that more than on one occasion in the outdoors on outdoor trips =men feeling more comfortable banding together when there is a 2 to 1 male/female ratio.) Alienation=psychological distress=physical and mental performance suffers and you appear weaker.

There are many variables.
TGT

Social climber
So Cal

Jan 27, 2013 - 05:02pm PT
Cosmiccragsman

Trad climber
AKA Dwain, from Apple Valley, Ca. and Vegas!

Jan 27, 2013 - 05:03pm PT
Pretty soon women are going to blame us men
for them having to get Breast enlargements.

How did they get hired, if I may ask? Who was the person making the interview/acceptance decision and how did they base the decision? Now if it was some horny guy and he looked over women with the can-do attitude in favor of the ...can-do "cans"....!

Here's me doing trailwork at my local crag. Oversized work gloves - made for man's size. I was so happy to find that Home Depot actually had woman's sized ones. I had NEVER seen them before at any of the hardware stores over the years. Mow I have gloves that fit my hands!

Credit: happiegrrrl

That one sort of looks like a girl playing at a guys job... or getting the easy work. Spooling up cable's not that hard. Somewhere I have another picture of me at trailwork, cranking a griphoist to pull along a stone that is about 5 foot by 3 foot by 1 foot think. Cranking for the pull isn't hard, just takes a long time, when the rock has to be moved 30 feet or more.

There are things I CAN'T do in trailwork that the guys can. I cannot lift 50 lbs and more stones by hand and carry them distances, as an example. Most the guys can do that all day(unless bad back). But i don not think there is anyone who has seen me at trailwork saying I am not pulling my weight, right alongside the guy team members.

But...I do have a bad attidue sometimes, like when the ta;lus slope was unstable and they wouldn't believe me when I said if we didn't change what we were doing we'd have an avalanche, and so I refused to continue working in that area it would go.

A rock mason professional came the next week and saw it all and agreed with me. My bad attitude enjoyed a pretty big smirk that day.
John M

climber

Jan 27, 2013 - 05:14pm PT
I call bullshit and males griping about it are purely sexist because seeing a woman in a police uniform is somehow "not right" or "just doesn't fit" in their opinion.

I doubt Werner is bullshitting. Though He may be trolling.. LOL

I grew up in a farming town. There were girls who grew up on the farm and knew how to get into the middle of any heavy lifting, and then there were plenty of women who didn't know the first thing. Its something that can be taught but not everyone is willing. Its the same with guys. When I worked heavy construction putting in water mains I trained the new guy. There were guys who just didn't have a clue how to get into the middle of heavy lifting, and they were a pain to train, but if they were willing, you usually could. Then there were guys who had been doing it all their lives and it was a simple matter to fit them in and teach them. Its a matter of mindset and training.

Then there were guys that were just plain useless. We got rid of them quick. The pay was good and we didn't have to suffer fools.

The main thing I see is that there are just more guys who have learned how to help out in a heavy lifting situation. As a guy you are expected to help when something needs to be carried, so you learn young. Women aren't expected to help in that situation, so many don't. I do understand that That is just a generalization and there are plenty of exceptions to that. In both directions. I have back problems and don't do as much of my firewood work as I use to. I hire a local women to do a lot of it. She worked trail crew in the park for 17 years. She is a hottie too. :-) Not that that has anything to do with why I hire her. Just pointing out that you don't have to look like that Russian woman to do heavy lifting. Though that is a funny poster.

Credit: John M

Captain...or Skully

climber

Jan 27, 2013 - 05:23pm PT
Happiegrrl. I'm not an ANTI. I think everyone who can, can. Some can't.
They find other avenues to contribute. Or not.
You KNOW how it goes....
John M

climber

Jan 27, 2013 - 05:26pm PT
2. Do the interaction between the sexes get in the way from optimal female physical performance on the job?

I remember the first woman I made cry on the job. LOL.. She got in my way when I was moving something heavy and didn't move quick enough. I chewed her out good, just like I did any guy. She broke out crying and I didn't hardly know what to do. I was treating her just like I treated the guys. We both had a bit to learn about working together. She had to learn about the heat of moment and I had to learn that women carry their emotions closer to the surface. She turned out to be one of my better employees.
Anastasia

climber
InLOVEwithAris.

Jan 27, 2013 - 05:28pm PT
A feminist calling other women catty. That is name calling, it means absolutely nothing except that it's sexist which makes you a hypocrite. Then when you complain that men only are interested in the physical and how wrong that is, yadda, yadda and than have the stupidity to claim that the older women her are being jealous about your fine young arse...

Young lady, with that line of logic your an idiot.

Plus seriously, over here on the internet... You really think we care about your arse? Honey, seriously get off the net. You are out of your league BIG TIME.
part-time communist

Mountain climber

Jan 27, 2013 - 05:30pm PT
That one sort of looks like a girl playing at a guys job... or getting the easy work. Spooling up cable's not that hard. Somewhere I have another picture of me at trailwork, cranking a griphoist to pull along a stone that is about 5 foot by 3 foot by 1 foot think. Cranking for the pull isn't hard, just takes a long time, when the rock has to be moved 30 feet or more.

I am not sure where those claims came from with SAR teams and shitty female physical performance because physical limitations is definitely not holding women back. Mainly because I KNOW personally I can kick more than a fair share of males asses out there.

Maybe the performance discrepancy comes from an imbalance in technical knowledge. Males are really gung-ho about developing methods in executing an operation (usually requiring rapid decision making skills and strict protocols) and females are put into place to parrot these male devised methods.

I actually have a funny story to go along with this whole theme:

So I was helping my grandmother on the farm in Lithuania this past summer. She had a shipment of 2 tons of briquettes, they were dumped in her front yard. They came in a package of about 6 each, with each package weighing 20 pounds or something. Anyways, we had some family friends come over and help because we had to stash some away into storage using a wheelbarrow and transfer the rest upstairs in the house by hand. There were 3 young men very capable and fit (all in their early 20's) and me. That was the team. I quickly pounced on the task and whipped their asses into shape. At first, I would grab 2 of the packages and carry it upstairs, then quickly moved onto grabbing 3 packages at once. The young men followed suit and started carrying 3 packages minimum. One of the guys noticed this and started grabbing 4 packages. LOL We went at it like this for like 30 minutes and they were not faster at it than me and not more capable. I was kicking their sorry little asses cus they were afraid to show any weakness with a girl in the group and I was far from getting tired. We were moving at very high speed pace, which I had set. VERY amusing experience to have observed.

Fish Finder

Social climber
THE BOTTOM OF MY HEART

Jan 27, 2013 - 05:37pm PT

The softness of a woman can never be replaced by a man

as

the hardness of a man can never be replaced by a woman
Anastasia

climber
InLOVEwithAris.

Jan 27, 2013 - 05:40pm PT
So were they being paid per hour? Any smart person would do absolutely minimum to make the job last longer, get paid more. Or... Were they going to be put on task on something else once it was done. Another reason to lag in order to avoid more work.

If I want a job done quickly. I offer a flat fee that is handed out when it's done. I never pay per hour and... I can't tell you how many times I lagged on a task so my mother wouldn't find me a new one. I discovered the pleasures of doing homework all day avoiding the pleasures of cleaning bathrooms, etc.

We are all human with human faults.

I am sure you can work hard. I know tons of girls that can make the menfolk sweat but sometimes what you see isn't what is.

part-time communist

Mountain climber

Jan 27, 2013 - 05:43pm PT

The softness of a woman can never be replaced by a man

as

the hardness of a man can never be replaced by a woman

this is a very sexist notion.

From Butlers "Gender Trouble"

She begins her critique of identity and gender by challenging her readers' assumptions about the distinction often made between sex and gender. (In this distinction, sex is biological while gender is culturally constructed.) In the first place, Butler argues, this distinction introduces a split into the supposedly unified subject of feminism, and in the second place, the distinction proves false. Sexed bodies cannot signify without gender, and the apparent existence of sex prior to discourse and cultural imposition is merely an effect of the functioning of gender. That is, both sex and gender are constructed.

She asks why we assume that material things (such as the body) are not subject to processes of social construction themselves.

John M

climber

Jan 27, 2013 - 05:44pm PT
The softness of a woman can never be replaced by a man

as

the hardness of a man can never be replaced by a woman

Every man has a feminine side and every woman has a masculine side. Learning how to express it and experience it is part of becoming a complete person.
Captain...or Skully

climber

Jan 27, 2013 - 05:50pm PT
I am sure you can work hard. I know tons of girls that can make the menfolk sweat but sometimes what you see isn't what is.
Indeed.
Anastasia

climber
InLOVEwithAris.

Jan 27, 2013 - 05:53pm PT
Text books say a whole lot of things. There was a ton of proof the Nazis had to support the claim of being a superior race, the physical characteristics to look for in those that are inferior, etc. You can spin doctor almost any fact and twist it.

Yes Commie, I am still irked that you had the audacity to claim the older gals were jealous of you because of you ass. Seriously a very ignorant and sexist thing to say. You really should apologize for that or... I am not going to stop poking holes in your statements. Plus, it's so darn easy.

You shot yourself down with that and now... You just sound like a pompous child who thinks she has the world of knowledge from reading one book.

People like Susan paved the road for the rest of us and being so disrespectful of that because of your silly little ass. I no longer see how any of your arguments can hold any water after that.
Fish Finder

Jan 27, 2013 - 06:03pm PT
The older women in this thread getting all catty with me because I have a youthful fine piece of ass goes nowhere.

This a joke right? I'm one of "older women" that worked hard to "set the standard" to allow you young pieces of ass to pick up and run with increasing the equity between genders. And this is the payback, "I took a class at UCLA in feminism" from some renown feminist. Get out from behind your academic desk and get on the line and do the work. Armchair feminism ...blech.

Susan
John M

climber

Jan 27, 2013 - 06:05pm PT
And this is the payback,

the little ones some times need to have their ass chewed.

Once you're dumb & strong, you're ready for BigWall climbing.

LOL..
part-time communist

Mountain climber

Jan 27, 2013 - 06:07pm PT
LOL I really have no problem with any of you ladies, but people seem to have a problem with me because of my unpopular opinions. Sorry if I offended. I got fed up with people assuming things such as the whole soapbox thing when in reality I fight the gender battle every day.

Also a lot of my ideas are ideas I developed on my own and over years of observation. I was exposed to a lot of writers and theories while in school but was never the one that really read the textbooks.
monolith

Jan 27, 2013 - 06:12pm PT
PTC... You get tired? You aren't old enough nor experienced enough to be tired yet. You should check out some of Susans trip reports. You might learn a little about the depth of a person before you make snitty comments.
Anastasia

climber
InLOVEwithAris.

Jan 27, 2013 - 06:14pm PT
You obviously didn't learn. First... No one had a problem with you until that stupid post.

Second, I didn't ask for an excuse. Especially a lame one... I asked for an apology and not for myself, but for folks like Susan that did the work, made things happen.

Even I know I'm outclassed, outsmarted and that I owe her for her hard work at making my life better. Tittle IX was the best thing that ever happened for girls in schools. You really need to read on it and that Susan, I thank you.

Plus... T.R. I recognize your excuse making. You really need to stop making them and owe up to your own wrongs. Yes, the guys really do owe you an apology too but that does not excuse you for bad behavior either.

Again, no one cares about your ass. Your mind... It has a ton of potential... If you could only learn not to make excuses.

AFS

P.S. About those boys at that farm... They might have been working so slow looking at that fine ass. Did you ever think about that? Was it sexist or a compliment... You decide.

Jim Brennan

Trad climber
Vancouver Canada

Jan 27, 2013 - 06:19pm PT
The Kiwi should be along shortly to start threatening people and pretending to ask PTC why she don't call no more...

*Yawn*
Captain...or Skully

climber

Jan 27, 2013 - 06:21pm PT
Nek Minnut?!?
Only problem I have is that you're not real.

Be real, Stupid! Duh....
part-time communist

Mountain climber

Jan 27, 2013 - 06:30pm PT
Anastasia

climber
InLOVEwithAris.

Jan 27, 2013 - 06:33pm PT
P.S.

Tony Bird was right. I should not have even started the thread, even as a joke. Gosh, learning the hard way sucks.

Was it immature, probably. I do find stuff like Family Guy as extremely hilarious. Plus Bill and I have a similar sense of humor that is unconventional and a bit "wrong." Having someone to share such silliness makes me forget the rest of the world isn't on the same wavelength.

Was it my ego... Not really... I have all the attention, acceptance and approval I need from my family. I know where I stand. I am a middle age housewife and yes, I LOVE it. This is where I want to be. I'm the last person on this planet that would want a different life. I worked hard to get here and I am sure as heck not regretting it.

When Bill and I fight, if I throw the word "Boobs" out. Well, it stops the fighting. I thought others will get the joke. Too bad it turned into such BS.

Hugs,
AFS

Hankster

Social climber
Golden, CO

Jan 27, 2013 - 06:37pm PT
I do find stuff like Family Guy as extremely hilarious.

This is excellent!
part-time communist

Mountain climber

Jan 27, 2013 - 06:38pm PT
99% of those women looked happy, if not thrilled, about being photographed, and I'm assuming being the object of men's desire.

nowhere in the process of evolution did it require for women to enjoy sex or to be compliant with it.

LOL
Captain...or Skully

climber

Jan 27, 2013 - 06:42pm PT
Move along Wanda...You're boring.
Even if you DID exist.
kunlun_shan

Jan 27, 2013 - 06:52pm PT
What the hell are you talking about? What is wrong with you?

I as a woman love sex. I love being compliant to my husband's needs. I love the fact that he is attracted to me. I sure as hell think it's an important part of my biology and yes... I think you are an idiot to believe it's not. Never mind how unhealthy that view point is, never mind how sick that sounds to me.

Please don't ever raise a child. For one, you will have to have sex which is so unnatural to you. Two, you will lose the shape of that precious ass of yours that you brag about and three... You are going to suppress them so bad they will turn into Ted Bundy.

Yup, I am done.

graniteclimber

Trad climber
The Illuminati -- S.P.E.C.T.R.E. Division

Jan 27, 2013 - 07:02pm PT
nowhere in the process of evolution did it require for women to enjoy sex

Wrong.

It did and women do. Most of them. There are always some deleterious mutations that confer a disadvantage--If that includes you, that is your bad luck. Evolution will not be on your side.
part-time communist

Mountain climber

Jan 27, 2013 - 07:02pm PT
What the hell are you talking about? What is wrong with you?

I am suggesting the establishment of male dominance and hierarchy (patriarchy) comes from a very violent past.

early stages of our evolution on the level of our ancestors did not require for women to enjoy sex or to be compliant with it, the only thing required was for males to be stronger, larger and more physically capable. There is a reason men evolved larger, and stronger than women and its not just to do with hunting and protecting the species.
TGT

Social climber
So Cal

Jan 27, 2013 - 07:02pm PT
Whatever you say, Part-Time Dworkin

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

LOL!
tradmanclimbs

Ice climber
Pomfert VT

Jan 27, 2013 - 07:11pm PT
36 years in the workforce and I have noticed that when a woman makes a big stink about being a woman and uses the gender card to complain about unfair treatment at work that most of the other workers see her as a jerk and management sees her as a high maintenence pain in the rear employee. When a woman does a good job and does not expect special treatment just because she is a woman there is respect from pretty much everyone the same as if it was a man. I also know a whole lot of women that make way more $$$ than i do so no sympathy for crying about the workplace from this end. Work suks and we all get the shaft ocasionally.. stop yer whineing and get on with it...

PS. when a guy is a high maitenence pain in the ass at work it's no different, they just call him an as#@&%e instead of a bitch..
Walleye

Anyone familiar with Camille Paglia's approach to feminism?
Apologies in advance if that's a bore. I certainly get a kick out of her stance.
Riley Wyna

Trad climber
A crack near you

Jan 27, 2013 - 07:34pm PT
36 years in the workforce and I have noticed that when a woman makes a big stink about being a woman and uses the gender card to complain about unfair treatment at work that most of the other workers see her as a jerk and management sees her as a high maintenence pain in the rear employee. When a woman does a good job and does not expect special treatment just because she is a woman there is respect from pretty much everyone the same as if it was a man. I also know a whole lot of women that make way more $$$ than i do so no sympathy for crying about the workplace from this end. Work suks and we all get the shaft ocasionally.. stop yer whineing and get on with it...

PS. when a guy is a high maitenence pain in the ass at work it's no different, they just call him an as#@&%e instead of a bitch..

Yup, I've worked with just as many lazy nitwit males as I have females.

That was my original point - all this gibberish floating around in your head just makes ya unemployable.....whatever...
SCseagoat

Trad climber
Santa Cruz

Jan 27, 2013 - 08:07pm PT
I am suggesting the establishment of male dominance and hierarchy (patriarchy) comes from a very violent past.

early stages of our evolution on the level of our ancestors did not require for women to enjoy sex or to be compliant with it, the only thing required was for males to be stronger, larger and more physically capable. There is a reason men evolved larger, and stronger than women and its not just to do with hunting and protecting the species.

Gawd, get out of the ivory tower and go buildering on that UCLA campus.
Sheesh....

Jan 27, 2013 - 08:35pm PT
Found the trailwork picture I was looking for! This is pretty much my "regular job" on the trail crew - at the grip.

Credit: happiegrrrl

I guess I am on the "lift" one here(instead of the "pull"), and I DO do the lift grip, but when it is big stuff like this one, I usually cannot get it all the way up. I will do what I can and then a stronger person will have to take it.

We also have a Lewis Winch now, which is a chainsaw motor with a winch attached where the blade would mount, but I do not think I will ever feel comfortable running it. It is heavy and moves quickly. If something goes wrong and you are manning that thing, you had better be on the ball and know how to manage it immediately. It is loud, and the operator really cannot hear over the sound, so must relay on hand signals from others should they need to stop unexpectedly.

When we got the winch I was worried because I would have been the natural one to be put on that task, since it was doing the same job as a griphoist. I was relieved when we found that the Lewis wasn't going to be the replacement for the grips after all - I still had a job!

Maybe some might think I am not the equal of a man as a crew member because of these things, but I am pretty sure the guys on the crew don't see it that way. I would be *extremely* shocked if I later found out people on the crew said I had a bad attitude, or spent my time looking for the easier jobs. And pissed off as hell!

edit: Oh! and take note of the non "male standard" work gloves!
Tarbuster

Now, I'm not doing this to start any kind of trouble.
Not on purpose even.

But this thread needs pics for context. Or something.

In my opinion, PTC isn't getting enough well-deserved points here for a lively, brisk, kick asss attitude and her fetching & unapologetic independence, if a little top heavy on the writ. We could do worse. Much worse.

I'm voting PTC fork over a cyber lap dance for BVB?
Seems like it's in the cards anyhow. I could be wrong. But if I'm right?

PTC's asss, or so I'm led to believe ... from her supertopo photo stash:

The blue-collar take-it-or-leave-it version:

The artsy sensitive comehither version:

BVB, get your motor runnin' ...
(Won't be any more of this tomfoolery from me, but it had to be done).
part-time communist

Mountain climber

Jan 27, 2013 - 08:38pm PT
LOL

the boys are getting frisky now LOL
part-time communist

Mountain climber

Jan 27, 2013 - 08:41pm PT
from what I could tell from the pics, bvb is sort of an old dude now.

but back when he was in this scorching hot age range (im guessing 45+ or so?) .....

Credit: bvb

umm...yes please!!!!
Tarbuster

climber
right here, right now

Jan 27, 2013 - 08:42pm PT
No really. I'm following your your posts and I get it.
Beebs shud be along shortly. Forever Young I assure you.
happiegrrrl

haha - I think this would be an excellent text graphic for a t-shirt. Captain, May I?
Captain...or Skully

climber

Jan 27, 2013 - 08:45pm PT
Feel Free, M'Lady.
part-time communist

Mountain climber

Jan 27, 2013 - 08:47pm PT
Evolution will not be on your side.

umm noo....in nature, as a woman, if I went out of my way to not actively pursue sex or invite it or comply with it, I'd still end up being f*#ked by some male whether I like it or not! That's how the future of the species is certified as a no-hassle, no room for error style guarantee!

Real laws of nature have no room for delicate and sensitive tastes.
part-time communist

Mountain climber

Jan 27, 2013 - 08:51pm PT
hey what can I say, I have a nice ass LOL
Riley Wyna

Trad climber
A crack near you

Jan 27, 2013 - 08:55pm PT
we is sure a hilarious bunch
To bad we can't all party and climb together more

she really does have a great ass! ya gotta admit..lol

Captain...or Skully

climber

Jan 27, 2013 - 08:57pm PT
Someone may or may not. You are a figment.
Soon you will disappear in a puff of smoke(hopefully?).

I found some of the texty drooling a little creepy, and also thought that including images out of context to be creepy(the thread was CLEARLY about breasts as a sexual organ, and to post breast-feeding baby pictures in that context was - to me -creepy.

It wasn't a "boobs as sexual organs" thread except perhaps in your own mind.
I am the one who posted the tasteful pictures of breast feeding babies as a way of keeping it real. If you are creating some false equivalency of creepiness between pictures of breast feeding and pictures of sexualized under aged girls then I truly feel sorry for you.
Personally I feel anyone who finds breast feeding "creepy" probably has deeper issues than just being offended by people's appreciation of the female form. All three of my kids were breast feed. There is not a single thing "creepy" about it. Except for the people who are offended by it and make an issue of it. Breast feeding is the most natural of human acts. If you think there was some prurient or misogynistic intent in my posting breast feeding pictures on a boob thread started by a new mom posting a picture of a baby demanding boob then you need to take a good hard look at your own motivations not mine.

I don't even know what that means but somehow the comic timing is dead on.
I read that about three times in a row and it just bust me up every time.

Riley Wyna

Trad climber
A crack near you Jan 27, 2013 - 09:07pm PT
Captain - she is very real - i am freinds with her on facebook - 100 percent real - i promise
She has done like a million first decent canyons in death valley this last summer - she really is hard as nails..lol
she also climbed in Europe last spring..

sorry for blocking ya PTC - but your lack of morality thing hit a sore spot for me.
To many psychopaths taking advantage and to many nice people hurting - it bothered me on a lot of levels - the world is so unjust and there really are some very wonderful people out there who do the right thing and get f*#ked over.
Nietzsche really was an idiot - The Buddha had it figured out a long time ago already.
So are you a psychopath ya think?
In the modern MRI medical sense - not the classic sense..

In my opinion, PTC isn't getting enough well-deserved points here for a lively, brisk, kick asss attitude and her fetching & unapologetic independence, if a little top heavy on the writ. We could do worse. Much worse.

So nice to see ya in the mix Tar - interesting link to that feminist academic - i read her wiki page.

I was thinking the same thing actually - the evolutionary mix that PTC is throwing into the conversation - not in agreement on all of it but there is certainly some truth to it..

Open your minds folks

Tarbuster

climber
right here, right now Jan 27, 2013 - 09:11pm PT
bump

locker

Social climber
state of Kumbaya... Jan 27, 2013 - 09:14pm PT

"Every man has a feminine side and every woman has a masculine side. Learning how to express it and experience it is part of becoming a complete person."...

BULLSH!T!!!...

Credit: Cosmic

...

Tarbuster

climber
right here, right now Jan 27, 2013 - 09:18pm PT
there ther LoCkuR
we knew you haD it in you.
Way to come out. Real sweet darlin'.

Emancipated man balance shtick. Should be big payoff on your lead skills!

part-time communist

Mountain climber Jan 27, 2013 - 09:18pm PT

I was thinking the same thing actually - the evolutionary mix that PTC is throwing into the conversation - not in agreement on all of it but there is certainly some truth to it..

Open your minds folks

awww thank you :)

Yes, indeed open your minds! The way I look at it is, each perspective is like a raindrop in a bucket. Let the rain fall freely.

John M

climber Jan 27, 2013 - 09:19pm PT
Nice tits Locker. but the color of that fingernail polish is just all wrong for your skin color. It makes you looked washed out.

So are you a psychopath ya think?
In the modern MRI medical sense - not the classic sense..

Best question of the night.

You going to answer it PTC ?

Tarbuster

climber
right here, right now Jan 27, 2013 - 09:20pm PT

Yes, indeed open your minds! The way I look at it is, each perspective is like a raindrop in a bucket. Let the rain fall freely.

climber
the edge of America Jan 27, 2013 - 10:00pm PT
I was just extrapolating on PTC's theory -

If humans are wired in a foundational way to perpetuate the species, and men are built to overpower women for sex to ensure that, the more physically powerful men naturally become the more successful fathers. It follows that competition among males, to the death even, would lead to further selection of the bigger, smarter, more powerful men as fathers. Nothing really new there - that's all the law of the jungle, more or less.

Isn't the catty jealousy of lots of women toward each other, and in The Thread particularly, likely just the female version of elimination of the competition and spurred by their subconscious yet overwhelming drive to ensure successful breeding?

IOW, admit it girls, you want it BAD!

And all those hotties on the boob thread were distracting your potential studs...

I meant to say: no I am not a psychopath. I just tend to shy away from moral language for intellectual reasons.

have you read Nietzsche? A lot of people that shoot him down are not fully acquainted with or understand his ideas...

I understand now..

I haven't studied him at length - But I read through most of his stuff a few years ago. Actually very interesting in a lot of ways - but he misses the point a lot, i think.
He was very wrong about Buddhism - he just didnt get it..
Didn't he die very unhappy and depressed?
Part of his unhappiness was probably just to much thinking - that can make you sick - but the other part of it was he didn't understand what was really important and what was not important about life - he was sort of the original "greed is good" thinker.
There are plenty of very rich and miserable humans with no freinds or life becuase they never understood the fallacy of continued wanting and needing and never being happy - never stoping to understand the greater wonder of it all as well as the impermanance of life. With out that we are just mindless predators looking for our next short term fix - it's completely f*#ked. Morality, caring, intelligence, empathy, knowledge, understanding, relationships- all these feed off one and other and add to each other - with out one or the other you are going to be an empty person.
I have probably forgotten 99 percent of what I read - but off the top of my head this is the general gist.

Riley Wyna

Trad climber
A crack near you Jan 27, 2013 - 10:31pm PT

And all those hotties on the boob thread were distracting your potential studs...

This was my point up thread and is at the very heart of the original issue.
My point - nobody has a problem with boobs - boobs fly all over the f*#king place.
Until someone is getting more "attention" for their boobs than you are getting for your boobs. Then all holy hell breaks loose.

Some feminist critics have characterized Paglia as an "anti-feminist feminist", critical of central features of much contemporary feminism but holding out "her own special variety of feminist affirmation".

Some of you have to remember her: quite the sensationalist pot stirrer extraordinaire in intellectual feminist circles. Some of her thinking pretty hard-boiled if not purely outrageous. Although the wiki article cites examples, it of course doesn't do her unique position justice, but it's a start. Suffice to say she was big on personal responsibility.

Sexual Personae (from Nefertiti to Emily Dickinson) was quite a romp through Western art, with a Freudian thesis that probably got a little tired, yet not without a pretty good grasp on the pendulum swinging perennially from the reign of the intuitive/feminine/"Cthonian"(i.e. Dionysian) to the analytical/masculine/"Appolonian"(i.e. Apollo) throughout art, history and culture. It's a tome.

philo

Trad climber
Is that light the end of the tunnel or a train? Jan 28, 2013 - 01:14am PT
Now Tar, don't be gettin' all serious on this "Serious Matter" thread. I am serious. If it is serious does it matter?

Sexual Personae (from Nefertiti to Emily Dickinson) was quite a romp through Western art, with a Freudian thesis that probably got a little tired, yet not without a pretty good grasp on the pendulum swinging perennially from the reign of the intuitive/female/"Cthonian"(i.e. Dionysian) to the analytical/male/"Appolonian"(i.e. Apollo) throughout art, history and culture. It's a tome.
^^^+1

And all those hotties on the boob thread were distracting your potential studs...

Not really. The main guys posting that I noticed on that thread, in level of impact they made on my conciousness, were:
Philo - a very crass man, unable to debate without getting into absurd rants on topics which interest him. I do empathize with his concerns for Palestinians, and have been moved to tears reading some of his posts about his wife's relatives and friends over there. Married as well, which disqualifies a guy from "stud stardom" in my book.
Cosmic Cragsman - Securely married to a lovely woman. Again, in a committed relationship with another.
Locker - No offense to you Locker, but when we first went climbing and you said "I'm not interested in dating, but I'll sleep with you if you want!" I sort of was creeped out. I thought you were just kidding around, possibly, but of course every joke has a kernel of truth, but it is not the kind of humor that I find attractive in men, and the type of humor I like is a pretty important factor for me in considering "stud selecton."
BVB - Sobriety first! Besides, PTC has expressed interest, and I think they might make a good match, at least initially, and from their flirt postings to each other.

A lot of others who I have never met, and who haven't made enough of an impression on me "studwise" for me to have taken note of them on the boob thread and thought "Why(Oh, WHY!, and insert a Lichtenstien crying lady image while we're at it) would you settle for pumping iron over pixels, dude, when I would melt your dreamsicle faster than the sun on a scorcher of a summer day?"

And Riley -

My point - nobody has a problem with boobs - boobs fly all over the f*#king place.
Until someone is getting more "attention" for their boobs than you are getting for your boobs. Then all holy hell breaks loose.

Do you ACTUALLY really think this???

Any of you guys who did/do, are fooling yourselves. Do we women, who you are suggesting feel this way - and please DO make an attempt to actually think of REAL ones here on the forum and not your imagined women at large - post suggestive shots of our selves? Do we send you PM's asking about meeting? Do we post, to any of you specifically, flirtatious remarks such as PTC has done in this trread with BVB? I would say PTC's flirts with BVB indicate some interest...THAT is the sort of thing you ought to be looking for, if you wonder if a lady likes you.

Cosmiccragsman

Trad climber
AKA Dwain, from Apple Valley, Ca. and Vegas! Jan 28, 2013 - 08:15am PT
Happie;
if you read the posts, you should know I didn't post one pic of boobs,
except mine. I did post one funny boob saying and a couple of funny repartes but that's it. I think I posted on the whole thread a total of
maybe 5 or 6 times mostly to make fun of the thread. As you should know,
I don't take to much, serious, here on ST.

I was surprised the thread lasted as long as it did.

Edit

locker

Social climber
state of Kumbaya... Jan 28, 2013 - 08:17am PT

I fuking sure as hell HOPE you are trolling because THIS NEVER FUKING HAPPENED...

"Locker - No offense to you Locker, but when we first went climbing and you said "I'm not interested in dating, but I'll sleep with you if you want!" I sort of was creeped out. I thought you were just kidding around"...

You have simply GOT to be fuking kidding me...

HUH???

You feel free to explain in complete detail, whatever conversation you THINK took place...

Terrie...

Either you're totally whacked...

or like I said above...

I FUKING HOPE YOU ARE TROLLING HERE...

First wife...

Credit: locker

...

Second wife...

Credit: locker

...

Third wife...

Credit: locker

...

Happiegirl...

...

Here's actually WHAT DID happen that day...

At the end of the day, you asked me back to your tent...

Well, NOT being anyone that I was interested in...

I of course said, "no thanks"...

REALITY!!!...

locker

Social climber
state of Kumbaya... Jan 28, 2013 - 08:25am PT

;-)

locker

Social climber
state of Kumbaya... Jan 28, 2013 - 08:30am PT

""Locker - No offense to you Locker, but when we first went climbing and you said "I'm not interested in dating, but I'll sleep with you if you want!" I sort of was creeped out. I thought you were just kidding around"...

What a fuking STRANGE lie and thing to write...

Very, very, very, fuking WEIRD Happie...

Talk about CREEPY...

I now think back to all that BS you posted here about Blueblocker and how you tried to get everyone to think he was "Creepy" and nuts...

Trad climberhttp://www.climbaddictdesigns.com Jan 28, 2013 - 08:37am PT
I did notice that Cosmic, but I didn't say posting boobs, just posting on that thread. And you were, I think, a pretty persistent poster!

locker

Social climber
state of Kumbaya... Jan 28, 2013 - 08:37am PT

Why the LIE Terrie???...

So fuking STRANGE...

locker

Social climber
state of Kumbaya... Jan 28, 2013 - 08:41am PT

Well Terrie???...

You're ON at the moment...

What's the scoop???...

Got any more fuking LIES to tell???...

By the way, did you get the response you wanted???...

Cosmiccragsman

Trad climber
AKA Dwain, from Apple Valley, Ca. and Vegas! Jan 28, 2013 - 08:46am PT
Don't Think, Happie
I posted 5 or 6 times and those were just to make fun of the thread.

You said the same thing to me also, Locker,
and I told you I was a Happily Married man.

Trad climberhttp://www.climbaddictdesigns.com Jan 28, 2013 - 08:48am PT
Locker - That is not funny, if you are trolling with that to get me going. Because it certainly has, and that is very, very wrong.

If, for some godforesaken strange reason you actually really6 do believe that I asked you back to MY tent, then please DO do me a favor and stay away from me, because you are delusional.

And if you really believe this all to be true, then there is nothing I can say on this thread that will do anything but get people heckling and throwing weird comments, which will definitely mess with my energy.

I have no intention of letting that happen.

I would assume that people who know me in real life, and who also know you, can probably see the truth within this little strange conflagration.

By the way - I did just get an email from your address that appeared to be a hackers calling card. I returned an email to warn you.

And to hopefully insure that isn't going to get twsited for some f*#kined up idea of a joke or worse, here is the screen of the email, and the screen of return email.

Credit: happiegrrrl

Credit: happiegrrrl

SCseagoat

Trad climber
Santa Cruz Jan 28, 2013 - 08:48am PT
Give it a break Locker, , you're sounding too desperate and falling into the black hole of "thou thinks thee doth protest too much". It either happened or it didn't....it's between you two

You said the same thing to me also, Locker,
and I told you I was a Happily Married man.

Werner - I will NOT take this "off the thread," because that is inferring that that I am a crazy woman who does that sort of crazy sh#t. I know there are those who do, of course.

Cosmic - I am HOPING someone is playing with both you and Lockers posts, hard as that seems to be, and that the worst case scenario, that you would outright lie to "back a bro" or whatever strange thing it would be.

locker

Social climber
state of Kumbaya... Jan 28, 2013 - 08:54am PT

"I asked you back to MY tent"...

100% TRUE!!!...

You said almost these EXACT words...

"Would you like to come back to my tent?"...

And I said that my son was at home alone and that I needed to get back...

Sorry, but it's TRUE...

locker

Social climber
state of Kumbaya... Jan 28, 2013 - 08:55am PT

Did YOU write and post this Happie???...

Because if so, you ARE fuking NUTS!!!...

"I'm not interested in dating, but I'll sleep with you if you want!"...

My comment a few posts ago, Happy, was a cosmic funny and not SERIOUS!

Edit

happiegrrrl

Trad climberhttp://www.climbaddictdesigns.com Jan 28, 2013 - 08:57am PT
I am going to assume, since there was also that email with the link, that someone on this forum - NOT Locker, and NOT Cosmic - is a very, very sick individual.

Edit: Oh, and also not me, in case anyone thinks that would be a witty rejoinder.

locker

Social climber
state of Kumbaya... Jan 28, 2013 - 08:58am PT

and YES!!!...

My HOTMAIL account has been HACKED and currently I can't access it...

EDITED:

Better SAVE this one for who knows what to come...

"I am going to assume, since there was also that email with the link, that someone on this forum - NOT Locker, and NOT Cosmic - is a very, very sick individual."...

locker

Social climber
state of Kumbaya... Jan 28, 2013 - 08:58am PT

I'll ask again:

Did YOU write and post this Happie???...

Because if so, you ARE fuking NUTS!!!...

"I'm not interested in dating, but I'll sleep with you if you want!"...

EDITED:

The question isn't asking about Hotmail accounts...

It's about what YOU posted here...

Unless you're CLAIMING that you didn't post it...

DID YOU???...

nita

Social climber
chica de chico, I don't claim to be a daisy. Jan 28, 2013 - 09:01am PT

Most of the cast that you meet on the streets speak of true love,
Most of the time they're sittin and cryin at home.
One of these days they know they better get goin
Out of the door and down on the streets all alone.

Truckin, like the do-dah man. once told me youve got to play your hand
Sometimes your cards aint worth a dime, if you dont layem down,

Sometimes the lights all shinin on me;
Other times I can barely see.
Lately it occurs to me what... a long strange trip its been.

My comment a few posts ago, Happy, was a cosmic funny and not SERIOUS!

Cosmic....considering what is going on here, that is so f*#king not funny. Can't you see that?

Locker - I do not know what to tell you. I specifically recall that occurring, as we were driving along to go climbing. I recall it being said in an offhand manner, amongst a string of other light conversation that climbers would have upon the first time they have met and are going climbing. I remember it seeming a pretty odd thing to say, but thinking "well, maybe he just wants to be very clear right off the bat, because sometimes people do think "maybe this will be the one" (both men and women) when they are single and meet other climbers of their preferred gender.

I am sorry if you really do not believe that happened, but I also just as strongly believe that it actually did. I suppose there is the possibility that I am THAT messed up in the head that I could be capable of imagining such things, and if that is the case, then I hope that God or the Universe puts me out of my misery sooner rather than later - because to live such a delusional life would be a hell to live in and pretty much bring everything I have experienced in life under question.

locker

Social climber
state of Kumbaya... Jan 28, 2013 - 09:12am PT

Happie...

it's in your mind...

NEVER happened like that...

DID happen like I said...

Right after we were done climbing, Hidden Valley Campground, YOU asked me back to YOUR tent, I said my son was at home alone and that I needed to go...

There was NOTHING ELSE to it...

I WASN'T INTERESTED!!!...

You're NOT my type!!!...

What you wrote about me and being "CREEPED OUT" is so fuking STRANGE...

Many people KNOW me here also...

I guarantee that they KNOW it NEVER happened like you claim...

locker

Social climber
state of Kumbaya... Jan 28, 2013 - 09:14am PT

"I suppose there is the possibility that I am THAT messed up in the head"...

No fuking SH!T!!!...

I am NOT the first person you pulled this type of CRAP on...

patrick compton

Trad climber
van Jan 28, 2013 - 09:14am PT
all that matters is that this thread continues to stay serious, very serious

SCseagoat

Trad climber
Santa Cruz Jan 28, 2013 - 09:14am PT

bring everything I have experienced in life under question

Teddy is real, I've met him...your life is blessed with that little guy...that's all that's really important...BTW the lab foster I have right now is a Teddy also. He gets adopted this afternoon...boo hoo to me, yippee for him

Susan

locker

Social climber
state of Kumbaya... Jan 28, 2013 - 09:15am PT

Now I am DONE Susan...(Or until she posts some other fuking total BS)

I'm NOT going to get ANYWHERE with a NUT...

Cosmiccragsman

Trad climber
AKA Dwain, from Apple Valley, Ca. and Vegas! Jan 28, 2013 - 09:16am PT
Yeah Happy, Just like you said I was a persistant poster on that thread.
I was, if you consider 5 or 6 posts persistant.

If your memory about my MANY persistant posts is wrong
you better reboot your hard drive because it's got a GLITCH.

Edit: I thought my comment above was Hilarious,
but then I always have had a WIERD sense of Humor.

Credit: Cosmiccragsman
[Edit this Photo]

Edit

locker

Social climber
state of Kumbaya... Jan 28, 2013 - 09:19am PT
I'd say your best bet Cosmic is to disengage...

She is in a world of her own...

Neither of us is being heard...

She isn't going to get it...

I am going to TRY and just IGNORE her from here on out...

Probably won't work as I have the tendency to REACT, etc...

But I am going to TRY!!!...

EDITED:

And just so you KNOW Happie...

PLEASE DO NOT come near me when I am out there...

I am SERIOUSLY (this is a SERIOUS thread!!!) worried that you WILL wig out and falsely accuse me of something...

Is it POSSIBLE that I asked if you wanted to come back to my campsite and have TEA or DINNER that you are possibly recalling it as a flirtatious invitation?

I can guarantee you, Locker(I could care less about convincing other watching this sh#t show, since I know that cannot be done), that it is not MY style to outright ask a guy to sleep with me.

Now there is someone that both you, Cosmic and I know, who I did have some interest in....and even he I didn't make that type of bold move. But he seemed just as interested in me(if only from a guys quick fix perspective), and so it was what it was. Haven't seen him in a few years, but I think he would speak well of me, as I do him.

locker

Social climber
state of Kumbaya... Jan 28, 2013 - 09:23am PT

I'd be MUCH happier if you simply IGNORED me too Happie...

You're obviously FUKED up in the head...

You were fuking NEVER "Creeped out" by ANYTHING I said...

If that were true, why the fuk would you continue climbing with me???...

So again, PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE (James Brown???) do not talk with me here, or ANYWHERE...

I am NOT even interested in being "FRIENDS" or climbing with you, or ANYTHING...

Altho I am surprised She even brought me into this
conversation in the first place.
She usually ignores me, unless it's to admonish me about something.

Edit

happiegrrrl

Trad climberhttp://www.climbaddictdesigns.com Jan 28, 2013 - 09:27am PT
And Cosmic - I will accept that it is possible that I misremember the amount of posts you made to that particular thread. I do recall seeing them, and since you are someone I know, your posts made an impact on me more that an series of boob shots of strangers by strangers. If I think of that thread...this would be a recap:
1 - Boob picture post(repeat for half a page or so)
2 - Remark with no picture
3 - Response to post with remark only - post pictures, not words!
4 - Repeat Step 1
5 - Cosmic photoshop image
5) Repeat steps 1 through 4 and through in some Step 5's randomly.

Up until towards the end, when the t*r exchange began and people tried desperately to save the boobies, and IHP posted "the serious images" and people scolded him and....poof, it was gone.

edit: Ummm, Cosmic....

Altho I am surprised She even brought me into this
conversation in the first place.

YOU brought yourself into it by saying I came on to you, rememebr????

Credit: happiegrrrl

EDIT AGAIN! Oh sh#t....Cosmic, I am sorry. I misread that you said it was ME you had to tell you were a happily married man. Now I look at that post and see you said it was Locker you "had to tell you were a happily married man."

Trad climber
Is that light the end of the tunnel or a train? Jan 28, 2013 - 09:30am PT

Philo - a very crass man, unable to debate without getting into absurd rants on topics which interest him. I do empathize with his concerns for Palestinians, and have been moved to tears reading some of his posts about his wife's relatives and friends over there. Married as well, which disqualifies a guy from "stud stardom" in my book.

Happie without the complete context of a particular thread it is easy to call me a "very crass man".

Minor criticism though it was compared to the rest, the most galling calumny of all as far as Gaius Marius was concerned was the perpetual inference that he was unacceptably crass because he had no Greek. —Colleen McCullough, The First Man in Rome, (1990) 1991
[+]more
Origin of CRASS

If you actually knew me you would understand how incorrect that assessment is.
I admit I have been crude and condescending when I felt someone's posting was ludicrous.
Like prior to the last election when a few posters were still claiming Obama was a secret Muslim from Kenya and demanded to see his birth certificate. After they had been respectfully been shown the truth repeatedly and still demand to be shown it again, they have earned derision. I am very passionate man. I stand by my beliefs and will defend them voraciously unless I am shown truth hat I had not yet perceived. Then I will with an open mind adapt or adjust my earlier stance.
Without the context of the ongoing thread it is unfair to label me a "Crass Man".
I am not a misogynistic pervert. I am the father of three wonderful souls. My 18 year old daughter is drop dead gorgeous and built like a Hollywood Starlet. If you don't think I am deeply concerned with the issue of exploitation of under aged girls then you really have no clue about me.

Regarding "absurd rants on topics which interest him"; Do you think my "OFFENSE" at the gun nutters posts were "absurd rants"? Please explain. When I come across a post that makes me go WTF i make a point of reading back to find out where it came from before responding (or not) to the single post.

locker

Social climber
state of Kumbaya... Jan 28, 2013 - 09:30am PT

They don't call me Drill Sargent Slaughter for nothing!!!...

ONE LAST TIME:

RECAP:

First wife...

Credit: locker

...

Second wife...

Credit: locker

...

Third wife...

Credit: locker

...

Happiegirl...

...

The MATH doesn't add up...

LATER!!!...

;-)

Cosmiccragsman

Trad climber
AKA Dwain, from Apple Valley, Ca. and Vegas! Jan 28, 2013 - 09:32am PT
"And Cosmic - I will accept that it is possible that I misremember the amount of posts you made to that particular thread."

LOLOL.
A Cosmic manipulation, SPEAKS a Thousand Words!

Edit

Hawkeye

climber
State of Mine Jan 28, 2013 - 09:32am PT
as a non-partisan, dis-interestecd party, let me just take a moment to point out that this thread is a......

Philo - The thing is, I do not know you in real life, and can only go by the threads which you post to at this time. And you do tend to go ballistic - as you admit. I was totally on your side on threads where Fattrad was baiting about the Palestine/Israel "discord" for lack of a better word. But I value good debate, and find making nasty comments directly to people as poor sportmanship and style.

Unless I am totally imagining that is the way you have posted at times, and you are actually quite civil, respectful and use strong intellect to make your points.

By the way - I have always admired your cartoons, and think they are on a level with any you'd find in the major media outlets.

happiegrrrl

Trad climberhttp://www.climbaddictdesigns.com Jan 28, 2013 - 09:41am PT
Cosmic - See above edited post... I did catch that - too late. I thought you had written that I asked YOU to sleep with me.

My apologies.

Edit AGAIN: And to be CLEAR, I did not mean to say that Locker ASKED ME to sleep with HIM. I said that he made that remark, as I wrote several posts earlier. That is different than asking someone outright to schtup. Of course, now I will probably have pissed him off again so he may post the lineup of his truly beautiful past wives and myself, by comparison.

Trad climber
Is that light the end of the tunnel or a train? Jan 28, 2013 - 10:02am PT
Thanks for that Happie. I did endure a boat load of baiting from Fats and others particularly when the invasion of Gaza was ongoing. I fought back most emphatically. And for that I was labeled a Jew hating Drama Queen. At the time there was almost no support from the ST clan for me against the insidious things being posted. I am gratified that at the very least I managed to reach you.
But that experience set the stage for me to be a condescending ass hole that made personal attacks when decorum, diplomacy and rationality failed.

How many times do you have to watch someone desperately push at a pull door before you attempt to show them their error? How many times do you show them before concluding they are idiots?
There are a handful of posters here that have received the worst of my words because they earned them. There are several posters with whom I have quarreled with mightily on some threads and agreed with completely on others. When posters that I have railed against posted thoughtful, reasonable and respectful comments I always responded in kind manner. But when for example someone like DT would post up yet another hackneyed racist photoshop attack on Obama I didn't feel the need for civility in the least. There are a number of posters that have read some of my hotter rants out of context and made incorrect assumptions about me.

The sad truth about Terrie is that she has had a number of pissing contests with various people on climbing forums, and in real life, for years. They almost always revolve around her being set off by a perceived offense. She seems to be offended easily and often, particularly by men.

Although she carefully cultivates an online persona, a facade, of civility and equanimity, what lies just a layer or two beneath is a very different story, as revealed by these recurring meltdowns.

Terrie, I don't say these things to bring any pain to you. Clearly events in your life have caused you a great deal of pain already, and I wish you no more. I am saying this publicly here to encourage you to become more circumspect. To think and reflect before you speak ill of people both on and off line.

As you will no doubt point out in an attempt to discredit my remarks, I am entirely anonymous under this moniker, veritas.curat. This is by design so you don't haunt me and trash me both online and off over the coming years, as I have seen you do to others over the last decade.

part-time communist

Mountain climber Jan 28, 2013 - 10:04am PT
Imagine if we all lived in a small village somewhere in the amazon jungle in ecological isolation LOL

But you did Drag me into this conversation when you stated I was one of the MAIN posters to the Boob thread.
That's when my feathers got ruffled.

Happie Quote;
"Not really. The main guys posting that I noticed on that thread, in level of impact they made on my conciousness, were:
Philo - a very crass man, unable to debate without getting into absurd rants on topics which interest him. I do empathize with his concerns for Palestinians, and have been moved to tears reading some of his posts about his wife's relatives and friends over there. Married as well, which disqualifies a guy from "stud stardom" in my book.
Cosmic Cragsman - Securely married to a lovely woman. Again, in a committed relationship with another.
Locker - No offense to you Locker, but when we first went climbing and you said "I'm not interested in dating, but I'll sleep with you if you want!" I sort of was creeped out. I thought you were just kidding around, possibly, but of course every joke has a kernel of truth, but it is not the kind of humor that I find attractive in men, and the type of humor I like is a pretty important factor for me in considering "stud selecton."
BVB - Sobriety first! Besides, PTC has expressed interest, and I think they might make a good match, at least initially, and from their flirt postings to each other."

In the future, Happy, So this don't happen anymore,
just ignore me also. since mostly the only time you mention me, or ingage me in conversation, is to admonish me.

SERIOUS Dwain

Edit

Dingus Milktoast

Gym climber
And every fool knows, a dog needs a home, and... Jan 28, 2013 - 10:10am PT
With all this ignoring; the posts, like stars!

DMT

philo

Trad climber
Is that light the end of the tunnel or a train? Jan 28, 2013 - 10:11am PT
Hey The Larry, some one has to bring a smart phone so PTC can take "selfie" boob shots.

If you really want to assist me, there's no reason to not explain who you are, even that I might make a connection. How do we know each other, in real life? Please be specific enough that I can make a connection to a real person. If you do not want to do that on this forum - fine. Please send me a PM.

Hawkeye

climber
State of Mine Jan 28, 2013 - 10:12am PT

if one of you guys had just gone back to her tent, this whole thing wouldnt be such a serious matter.

bvb

Social climber
flagstaff arizona Jan 28, 2013 - 10:14am PT
Wow! Seriuosly, I would pay money to have LEB back right now. Can you imaging what this would be like with her in the mix? w00t w00t!

philo

Trad climber
Is that light the end of the tunnel or a train? Jan 28, 2013 - 10:16am PT
It would be Thread-ageddon.
Or would it be Thread-pocolypse?

You have made remarks at times that you think I don't want to climb with you and such(or....am I imagining?) and I have always felt bad about it because the fact was that I DO enjoy your company and climbing with you, and appreciate the times you have ropegunned.

Last year you asked a few times that I ought to come out to Vegas and climb and I WANTED to. But I was pretty much flat out broke, as I still am, and couldn't think the gas to do the trip was doable.

couchmaster

climber
pdx Jan 28, 2013 - 10:23am PT
Did anyone else notice that bastard Donini had the brains and intelligence to slip out of here while the getting was good? LOL! It appears that there's a lot of us should take the "I will only post to climbing threads" pledge.

Locker, you and Cosmic crack me up all day long, and don't take this the wrong way, but I can see how some of your stuff would creep a person out. Not me, I'm too busy laughing my ass off most the time. But look at the unwarranted and unfounded claims make by some on this thread who were genuinely offended by the breast thread. Talking more about folks of a sensitive, sour, non-jocular, bitter, angry personality. You can spot them on this thread here or there.

Trad climber
The Illuminati -- S.P.E.C.T.R.E. Division Jan 28, 2013 - 10:28am PT
Locker, if you are going to post your ex's, it's only fair that you also post pics of how they look now. And also how you looked when you married them and how they looked now.

philo

Trad climber
Is that light the end of the tunnel or a train? Jan 28, 2013 - 10:31am PT
Happie I am truly pleased that you like my Toons. I also hope that you would see the humor in much of what I post. Trust me it's there.
The mind that drew those silly toons is not crass.
Just a mean spirited SOB. LOL. :)

Have you noticed that for as rude as I have been-and I have at times been very rude - I am still here while some of those who attacked me viscously and received the brunt of my 'crassness' are now deactivated?

Hey Hawkeye why do the disinterested post to threads to express their disinterest?

Tarbuster

climber
right here, right now Jan 28, 2013 - 10:31am PT
BVB wrote:

Wow! Seriuosly, I would pay money to have LEB back right now. Can you imaging what this would be like with her in the mix? w00t w00t!

Dude, on a couple of occasions I actually PM'd LEB (or just pulled on her shirt sleeve in some nearby thread) to come and join these filibusters; all in the name of pulling out the stops. Wings of Steel comes to mind. It was like bringing rich manure or some sort of kick ass soil amendment to the party.

Cosmiccragsman

Trad climber
AKA Dwain, from Apple Valley, Ca. and Vegas! Jan 28, 2013 - 10:48am PT
"Locker, you and Cosmic crack me up all day long, and don't take this the wrong way, but I can see how some of your stuff would creep a person out."

It's all you Posters, here on ST, fault, Couch.
Your comments are the reason all those images appear in my mind that inspire my COSMetICs.

You have made remarks at times that you think I don't want to climb with you and such(or....am I imagining?) and I have always felt bad about it because the fact was that I DO enjoy your company and climbing with you, and appreciate the times you have ropegunned.

Last year you asked a few times that I ought to come out to Vegas and climb and I WANTED to. But I was pretty much flat out broke, as I still am, and couldn't think the gas to do the trip was doable.

Quoted for posterity.

philo

Trad climber
Is that light the end of the tunnel or a train? Jan 28, 2013 - 10:49am PT
Yea K-man but don't get serious about it unless it matters.

The Larry

climber
Moab, UT Jan 28, 2013 - 10:56am PT

I bet that Donini is lapping spliter cracks right now...sigh.....

I doubt it. It's a little wet and slushy at the moment.

Credit: The Larry

philo

Trad climber
Is that light the end of the tunnel or a train? Jan 28, 2013 - 10:59am PT
Looks perfectly Scottish to me.
Full Conditions.

Tarbuster

climber
right here, right now Jan 28, 2013 - 11:03am PT
So what are we going to do with the next couple hundred posts, play cards?

climber
Northridge, CA Jan 28, 2013 - 11:35am PT
just wanna let you guys know--i'm about to nuke this sucker. it has become silly to the point of obscene. you may want to save your precious contributions and repost them in a more appropriate thread. suggested title: thomas the tank engine and his boxcars.

sheesh--come down with the flu for a few days and your thread goes to heck.

part-time communist

Mountain climber Jan 28, 2013 - 11:37am PT
aw shucks I was just going to post a NEW hot photo!

That Flagstaff bouldering looks amazing. I first heard about it from Carrie C. when we were in Hueco seven years ago. She made it sound like its the place to be. Gonna have to check it out one day soon.

climber
right here, right now Jan 28, 2013 - 11:54am PT
Hey Tony,
This thread has served the forum quite well in my estimation.
A lot of people worked through a lot of stuff here. It's invaluable really.

climber
right here, right now Jan 28, 2013 - 12:33pm PT
OK: back to werk!
Where was I, oh yeah:

Camille Paglia: Sexual Personae

It is essentially a rollicking feast of Western art and literary criticism taken in through Paglia's erudite and highly detailed gender lens. Remember that movie about Henry Miller and Anaïs Nin, where they're all sitting at a table in France preparing to eat a soufflé and he just reaches over to the steaming dish with his fork, peremptorily stabbing the rich mushroom shaped lid and slapping the entire thing on his plate? That's what it's like to read her; extremely rich and probably a little overwrought for most palates, but what the hell.

Here's one of the more tame excerpts from the intro Birth of the Western Eye, a treatment which is completely on-topic, which helps to shine a little light on how she deconstructs feminist thought (if I read any of the primary text, it would probably sink or bewilder for want of context):

Though woman was at the center of early symbolism, real women were powerless. A fantasy dogging feminist writing is that there was once a peaceable matriarchy overthrown by warmongering men, founders of patriarchal society. The idea began with Bachofen in the 19th century and was adopted by Jane Harrison, that great scholar's one error. Not a shred of evidence supports the existence of matriarchy anywhere in the world at any time. Political rule by women, must not be confused with matrilineage, passive transmission of property or authority through the female side. The matriarchy hypothesis, revived by American feminism, continues to flourish outside the University.

There's plenty in there which would be much more germane to the struggle represented in this thread. It's 700 pages long and I got a bunch of stuff tabbed, but it's been 20 years since I read it, so it might be hard to pull out anything cogent. Her arguments comprise very long strings.

I found some of the texty drooling a little creepy, and also thought that including images out of context to be creepy(the thread was CLEARLY about breasts as a sexual organ, and to post breast-feeding baby pictures in that context was - to me -creepy.

It wasn't a "boobs as sexual organs" thread except perhaps in your own mind.
I am the one who posted the tasteful pictures of breast feeding babies as a way of keeping it real. If you are creating some false equivalency of creepiness between pictures of breast feeding and pictures of sexualized under aged girls then I truly feel sorry for you.
Personally I feel anyone who finds breast feeding "creepy" probably has deeper issues than just being offended by people's appreciation of the female form. All three of my kids were breast feed. There is not a single thing "creepy" about it. Except for the people who are offended by it and make an issue of it. Breast feeding is the most natural of human acts. If you think there was some prurient or misogynistic intent in my posting breast feeding pictures on a boob thread started by a new mom posting a picture of a baby demanding boob then you need to take a good hard look at your own motivations not mine.

We need to self moderate just a tad. The Boob thread certainly had redeeming quoolities, but someone started posting inappropriate possibly underage boob pics, dooming that thread to the dustbin.

So too, the Serious thread was epic, and then TheChief had to post a photo of a 15' penis. This is just another kind of nuking. Post extreme content and get either the OP or the mods to blow the thread away.

Posting extreme content with the intention of getting the thread blown away is also just another kind of attention whoring too.