Tax from the US

Does anyone have any experience with the Taxing from US?I am assuming they will always tax you.

Also has anyone used IAD on IOS. I am in the process of releasing a game and upon registering i was confronted with document 8233 for tax exemption.Not sure if i am understanding it correctly but it appears i need to apply for a ITIN (individual Tax Information Number) with the IRS in the US.

Yeah, the ITIN stuff.. I've had to apply for two of them (both EIN), one for me personally, and another on behalf of our company. Fill out the form, then give them a call. They'll ask you the same questions that are on the form (and some that are not, but those are simple things). Took me about 15-20 minutes each time.

@crocopede what a coincidence, it seems like I'm doing exactly the same thing as you - just requested for a contract agreement with Apple, right? I just filled in forms and things, was that what you did too? So I should also expect the same form to be sent my way?

@Tuism: Not sure if what you're doing is something specific to Apple (waiting for forms?), but what I needed to do was download the SS-4, fill that out, phone up the IRS and give them the answers they wanted. If all goes well, they give you your number right then and there. You can find the form(s) you need online :)

Why are you people being asked to fill out an SS-4 at all? A W8-BEN (or its newer, scarier relative, the W8-BEN-E) should be all you need.

For us this was as simple as calling the IRS, answering a bunch of questions, being told our EIN after 15 minutes and filling out a W8-BEN to prevent withholding on payments made to us. I've recently had to fill out a W8-BEN-E for a few stores seeing as the old forms are going out of date (but the tax treaty remains the same, so we don't get taxed by the US - or even have any money withheld that we'd then need to claim back).

-edit- Also, just to clarify: The US can't tax you if you're paying your taxes as an SA company. What they can do is withhold something like 30% of the money you get paid in case they need to tax you later and they stupidly let all that money out of their country and you're not giving it back to them. The way to get round this is to let the people paying you be able to tell the IRS that these payments are to someone that's tax-exempt and thus withholding would be pointless. You do that by giving them a W8 to wave at the IRS when needed... If you do get your payments withheld, you can claim that back from the IRS once the tax period expires. Technically. Although I have no idea how to do that.

I think the SS-4 is the form used to apply for the EIN, which you use on the W8 to send to whoever is going to pay you. Have they changed that in the last couple months? You only need the SS-4 that one time. At least, this is how it went down for me.

@Shadowblade what I'm doing is applying for contract from Apple, just stumbled upon needing this while wanting to silent release to Canada and SA as a test. This whole app store is a huge learning curve. I would hugely suggest anyone who might be interested to start now rather than later just to make sure you get it done. Eventually.

What I've done now is requested a contract for iOS Paid Apps, filled in contact, banking and tax info (which is just me declaring that I am the owner of the corporation, it seems). Then the application was process... And then I just checked, it seems that it's gone through already, unexpectedly quickly.

I have no idea if I have to do the tax forms you guys are talking about, is it something to talk to my accountant about, or should the distribution channel tell me about it?

What I did for all US stores/retailers/bundlers I've worked with:-All needed a W8 form.-W8 form needs EIN or ITIN number (EIN in my case).-Apply for EIN number with the SS-4 form.-Fill out SS-4 and phone IRS; they give you the number.-Use EIN number on all W8's you need to send.

My point is simply that you don't need to fill out an SS-4, or at least, I didn't. I just called the IRS number and nice lady asked me all the relevant questions and I hung up with an EIN number for my company.

The new W8-BEN-E is confusing, but you don't have to struggle to fill out the whole thing. It's actually self-explanatory as soon as you figure out which bits you don't need.

@Tuism: Apple is going to ask you for a W8 as soon as they have to pay you. Apple needs this because they're a US company paying money to someone outside the US, that's all this is about - Canadian tax has nothing to do with it... Once you're through the registration hoops with the whole DUNS number stupidity, it all moves pretty fast from Apple's side.

@crocopede what a coincidence, it seems like I'm doing exactly the same thing as you - just requested for a contract agreement with Apple, right? I just filled in forms and things, was that what you did too? So I should also expect the same form to be sent my way?

Hi.Sorry for the late response. They didn't send it to me. I picked up in the 8233 form that i mentioned ITIN requirements and noticed its definitely a requirement.

Apple required you to send a copy that you did apply for an ITIN. In the meantime if your game is released they hold on to your monies until your paperwork is sorted and approved

Frankly i find the entire process a bit cloudy and im still piecing things together. ITIN is applied for. But now i read stuff about EIN numbers. So i guess i will just apply for that as well.

Frankly i find the entire process a bit cloudy and im still piecing things together. ITIN is applied for. But now i read stuff about EIN numbers. So i guess i will just apply for that as well.

An ITIN is an individual tax identification number, it's what you have when you're not selling games as a company but as a single person (Apple's individual developer account). An EIN serves the same purpose, but for a company. You don't need both.

@Crocopede: You don't need to send anything through post as far as I'm aware. I certainly haven't. You can just call them up on the right number and ask for an EIN. Online wasn't available to us foreigners last I saw; does it support such a modern luxury now?

My point is simply that you don't need to fill out an SS-4, or at least, I didn't. I just called the IRS number and nice lady asked me all the relevant questions and I hung up with an EIN number for my company.

... Yes. Phoning is sufficient. Here's the US number I called: 267-941-1099

One addendum:The article skips out section 5. This seems incorrect. You should be an Active FFE and fill out part XXV accordingly (which is just a tickbox) - thanks @dislekcia for that info EDIT: It seems the article was correct. See next post on the Steam process.

EIN:There is some consternation (in another thread) as to whether an EIN is necessary (and if you read the IRS supporting docs you will only end up horribly confused). In the end I decided it's easy enough so I phoned the IRS and got one for Made With Monster Love while I was on the line. Total call time was 35mins (about 20 being hold) and it cost just over a $1 of skype credit. Phoning seems to be the only option, as the online application is only for domestic applications. Add the end the lady said something about I'll be sent info telling me what returns I'll need to file, which was a bit "huh!?!" but she couldn't tell me more.

You don't need to fill out an SS4, but you're basically filling it out telephonically. Why you're typing through a human being on the other side of the world instead of a computer I have no idea, but I did find having the form in front of me made life easier, especially when she was referring to various sections.

So all in all once you know what you need it's pretty simple. Before then it was literally one of the most horrible things I've ever attempted to fill out.

So I've just completed the Steam version as well. That was actually so much easier as they ask you "interview" questions and then fill out the W-8BEN-E for you. Really wish I'd done that one first, would have saved a lot of grief.

Two notes:According to Steam you can leave out section 5 and part XXV - as per the article above. I'm inclined to believe steam in this case.

Second: It fills in line 15 as: Royalty Copyright - 0%

Also they say this about EIN:

In order to claim treaty benefits, you will need to provide your Tax Identification Number (TIN). This may be your US TIN, such as a Social Security Number (SSN), Employer Identification Number (EIN), or Individual Tax Identification Number (ITIN). If you do not have a US TIN, you may provide your Foreign TIN for your local country.

If your local country does not use a TIN, you can:* apply for an EIN, online with the IRS OR* apply for an ITIN.

It is not necessary to have a TIN in order to determine if you are a US person or non US person for U.S. income tax purposes. However any reduction of the standard withholding rate (30%) that may be available under Treaty will not apply until you can provide either your Foreign or US TIN.

I'm still not sure if a SARS Income Tax number counts as a Foreign TIN, so still glad I've eliminated any ambiguities by applying for one.

Yeah i noticed this on steam. The IRS never received my paperwork. So i have to do it all again for an ITIN but as dyslexia pointed out. Perhaps its better to just skip that and go for a business ITIN.

Why its 0% is beyond me because according to my lawyer i qualify as an individual for %15 reduced tax. So i need to follow up with valve regarding this.

Why its 0% is beyond me because according to my lawyer i qualify as an individual for %15 reduced tax. So i need to follow up with valve regarding this.

... Get a new lawyer. They clearly don't understand US tax withholding and aren't explaining it to you.

It's a 0% rate because that's the lowest it can go. That means that, because of tax treaties between SA and the US, people in the US can pay you ALL of the money you make through them, instead of having to keep 30% of it back just in case you actually have to pay tax on your earnings within the US. In SA, we still pay tax on those earnings, but we pay it to SARS, not the IRS.

If you can prove that you're operating from South Africa, you don't owe any tax on US earnings to the US, so you are exempt from withholding, hence you have a 0% withholding rate. That's what all this is about - giving the people that pay out to you proof that they can use if the IRS goes "Hey! Why aren't you keeping money back to cover any potential taxes for those people?".

The 15% reduced tax sounds like it's either a local taxation thing, or it's a special case in withholding law. Either way it's irrelevant to getting paid by Valve and I have no idea why your lawyer would be talking about it.

So just to add here in case someone else wonders. I'm signing a month long job with a company state side and even as an individual you only need an EIN number. The ITIN is for if you are filing taxes in the states. And as said before the EIN is giving to you over the phone.

HI guys I know this is an old thread ,but it has been very helpful .As a matter of interest, I have called the I.R.S and they say I have to fill out and submit a W-7 form , which might take up to 6 weeks to process. I will update this thread once I have made some progress .

HI guys I know this is an old thread ,but it has been very helpful .As a matter of interest, I have called the I.R.S and they say I have to fill out and submit a W-7 form , which might take up to 6 weeks to process. I will update this thread once I have made some progress .

If you're South African, I believe you should be filling out a W-8BEN, for US Tax Exemption. The W-7 looks like a form for US taxpayers.

- You don't need to complete the SS-4 form at all. Phone 001-267-941-1099 (this is what you phone if you're inside SA at the time, i.e. it already includes the international dialing code for the US) and answer a few easy questions such as your full name and your address and whether you have the power to do what you're trying to do. You will have your EIN within minutes. Oh and phone between 13:00 and 01:00 because their office hours are 07:00-19:00 (Washington, D.C. time)

- Apple in iTunes Connect asks you a few questions before generating only the parts of the W8-BEN-E that you need to complete. The W8-BEN-E downloadable pdf instructions are horrendous and you really need proper instructions in English. This still works (even though it's for UK companies, it seems - in my very limited legal knowledge - to apply to SA): http://blog.draknek.org/post/94112319182/form-w-8ben-e-for-uk-limited-companies. The only thing missing is that you just tick the main 14.b) box and not the 'sub'boxes. Unless, of course, you are a government entity or similar.

The contract is processed within about 30 minutes after which you're ready for in app purchases or paid apps.

It took us months to figure out this was the problem with our in app purchases not working. We thought it was a problem with the code... *sigh*

Once you receive your EIN you can use it to complete forms where the EIN is not being automatically validated.Automated EIN validation systems, can however, take up to two weeks, before your EIN is active.. ;)