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Author
Topic: Romance.... and experience ? (Read 29465 times)

I have hesitated before posting such article.I did it finally, as we are not only made of HIV, but also of many others things, and among them, a heart and a brain.

Ok, I'm facing the most common question on "heart" for a poz, about dating someone.I don't want to use dating website,especially because most of them require a CC to enter in contact with your favorite, and so it force you to provide personal details, what I don't want.

Now, the second option is to meet someone as usual, in the real life.Here the same problem as for the CC occurs, you have to provide your details, and disclose your status.The problem is that you can't predict the reaction of your partner, despite if you feel you can read in him/her; so what if she/he take the mic and do a public announcement ? Or just saying to one, and everybody knows.

So I'm not a kid, so I won't ask you "how to meet someone" cause anyway, I know.But just about your experience in this field. How did you meet your partners. Experience and maybe recommendations.

Hops none of you will be upset by this question. Just decided to make it happen. Well, we all have been there no ?

I do not know if you live in the US, but in most states it is against the law to reveal anyone's status. That said, you always have the risk of someone telling your status, but I had it happen only once in 23 years. Given our status, that is just a risk you will have to take, but I doubt that anyone you fell in "like" with, would do that to you, assuming you disclose before any heavy sexual activity.

As to encouragement, I can offer plenty. I was dating a negative guy when I found out I was positive. The night I gave him the news, he responded by saying: "Neither of us should spend the night alone tonight." We went on to have a beautiful four year relationship, intense sex and all and he remains negative to this day. After him I had a relationship with the wacko from hell, who abused everything and everyone and after three years, I had to put him into jail to get away from him. After that I figured that love just was not in the cards for me anymore and I stopped looking.

Fate would have it that I responded to a personal ad a year later and thought I might as well try meeting people and if something develops, then great, but if not, at least I would have some new friends. The first time I met Stephen in person, it was like love at first sight. He had also been in an abusive relationship with a drug fiend (just like me) and so we both knew what we did not want in a relationship and all the rest is negotiable. We had so much in common, as we both worked as computer technicians and enjoyed many of the same things. But we were also very different. He does drag and I am part of the leather community.

All of that just made us more interesting and we fell hard and fast for each other. I married Stephen in December, 2001 and we are going on our ninth year together. We recently moved from the States to Canada, where I am a citizen, so we could enjoy the true meaning of being married. I shudder to think where I might be today, if it had not been for one small personal ad, I read, on that fateful day.

Well of course not. You've never made a comment of any substance here since you joined, why would you start now?

That's your passive-aggressive style isn't it John? The moment you hear something you don't like you shriek about how mean people are and when you can't intimidate them with your histrionic carry on, you either say nothing or post some bland smilie.

No honey, you just don't have that much impact. To be blunt you're like the mosquito in everyones ear, you just never shut the fuck up.

But remember this, I'm an arrogant man with an overinflated sense of my own self-importance and so are you.

We have that in common.

Unlike you honey, I have the experiences and the resources to carry it off. You don't. I've tried to tolerate you, really I have. I've struggled to answer your mind-numbingly backwards questions and I've often avoided how rude you've been to members of these forums who've dealt with you in good faith.

But no more.

Since you're so wise, Oh Great Knower of Things, I condemn you to do the AIDS thing on your own.

These are words spoken by a person who thinks he can give a semi-intelligent tongue-lashing to a person who disagrees with a much fantasized-about world. Face it, you're HIV+. You're (probably) going to develop AIDS. You seem to want to come on here and be in denial about what it is you actually have, and then want everyone to applaud your prattling on and give an encouraging wink.

I don't know what else to tell you, John. We've tried to give our honest opinions, but you just rip them to shreds. Ah well, life goes on and on it will go.

Logged

I've never killed anyone, but I frequently get satisfaction reading the obituary notices.-Clarence Darrow

Obviously having HIV and/or AIDS makes life more difficult, including finding romance. Some have obviously given up hope of finding it. I understand. I felt much the same way for a long time. However, here's a more, if you'll pardon this trite overused pun, positive story that might give you some hope John2038.

After my partner died in 1994, I was quite a sick guy for many years. Well, sick doesn't begin to describe it. I was hospitalized with PCP and my HIV became AIDS. I had to quit working; my counts all went to hell in a handbasket; I lost my job; I went onto SS disability; I was hospitalized again with pneumonia; I went through med after med, suffering side effects galore. This went on for about 10 yrs, just barely avoiding several more trips to the hospital.

During all that time, I never thought about love, or even sex. First, I was too sick to care about either. Since two yrs before my partner passed (because he had no sex drive) until almost 10 yrs afterward (that's a total of 12 years!) I didn't have sex with anyone. Nor did I want it, thanks to the med side effects, depression, etc. Secondly, I would never want to pass this disease on to another person. The easiest way to achieve that is of course to not have sex.

But, as many people here can attest, the meds have greatly changed over the years. Finally my doctor and I got a nice "salvage regimen" that didn't make me puke every damned day (just a dozen times a month now LOL). After 10 yrs, I finally even reached an undetectable status for the first time. And miracle of miracles, I actually began to feel better (still not great - with more bad days than good and a viral load that won't stay down); but good enough to realize I just might live for a few years. For the first time in nearly 15 yrs of having doctors tell me that I had "three months or so left", I could actually begin to hope and imagine that I might live until the next year.

Now to bring this sorry sad story around to your topic of romance. Through all those years of sickness, one of our (my late partner and I) best friends was always there for me. Even when he was dating, he stayed my best friend even when that caused problems in his relationships. But after years of dating, no "perfect" man ever showed up for my friend. Eventually, it ended up just him and I pal-ing around. I'm no dummy though and realized he was staying around because he was wanted more from our relationship - but more than I could give. I had buried a partner and know that grief - I'd never wish that on my worst enemy much less someone that I cared for. I was determined to not let anyone love me lest I put them in that type of situation because of my own poor health.

But, as I said, these newer meds were working for me and death no longer seemed as imminent. So I talked to my moms about the situation. I'm very lucky to have THREE moms - my real one, my mom-in-law (the late partner's mother) and my Ohio mom (a woman who befriended me and the late partner when we moved here. She's fed me nearly every Sunday dinner for 20yrs and her kids tell strangers I'm their other brother). All my moms told me the same thing - that they loved me, and when I died they would all be devastated, regardless of whether I was their "real" child or not. They told me it would be the same thing with my friend. Whether we was just "friends" or actual "partners", if I died, he would feel the loss just as bad; so why they should I miss out on having his love until then? Well, there's no way I could refuse the logic of three moms.

We just celebrated our third "official" anniversary together, though it's probably been more like seven yrs that we've been together. Am I still concerned about him having to take care of me while I'm sick? Yes, but he's known about my condition for all these years and has truly seen me at the worst (when I checked out of the hospital AMA that second time to go home to die). Am I worried about putting him through the grief of my death? Hell yes! but there' nothing I can do about that. AIDS has nearly killed me four times, I'm sure it'll eventually accomplish it. As I'm about to turn 46 next month, I can imagine being alive at least a few years more; but I still have great doubt that I'll ever reach 50.

My friends will tell you that I am the rational one, the level-headed one, the one who plans too much. When people ask my opinion, I tell them that love-at-first-sight doesn't happen (they're just confused between lust and love). I would never tell anyone to believe that love could then happen a second time. But in my heart, I do know that these things happen, because they happened to me. I fell in love with Randy when I first saw him dancing to Prince's "Baby I'm a Star" on Christmas night 1984. Within two weeks, we were living together. My only regret is that he died 6 months before we could celebrate 10 yrs together. Then after many years of sickness and grief, a second man, Jim, has brought love into my life once again. The only thing I might regret in this relationship is that, as he is neg, we might not get to celebrate our 10 yrs together either. Only time will tell.

I think that as long as you're alive (and especially if you're fairly healthy and now that meds are even better and there is more of possiblity of having HIV and NOT dying), you should keep the hope of finding love. I can't promise it'll be easy. I can't even promise that you'll find it. HIV and AIDS does make the situation harder; but it doesn't make finding and having love impossible.

Thank you very much for your testimony.I am touched by it, and I wish you really to live much longer and happier.

What surprises me, however, is that as a general rule, it seems that many HIV-positive renounce to love or no longer believe in it.

I feel it in your testimony as well, when you say:

Quote

I think that as long as you're alive (and especially if you're fairly healthy and now that meds are even better and there is more of possibility of having HIV and dying NOT), you should keep the hope of finding love. I can not promise it'll be easy. I can not even promise that you'll find it. HIV and AIDS does make the situation harder, but it does not make finding and having love impossible.

I know that you talk in general terms and that you surely say something true, but I am just a little puzzled on this general sentiment.

Indeed, I think that the conclusion would be quite something like: HIV doesn't affect really love, many have found it and are happy.

Your story is inspiring. You crossed a lot of testing, and I hope with all my heart that you will be happy for many years.

What surprises me, however, is that as a general rule, it seems that many HIV-positive renounce to love or no longer believe in it.

I know that you talk in general terms and that you surely say something true, but I am just a little puzzled on this general sentiment.

Indeed, I think that the conclusion would be quite something like: HIV doesn't affect really love, many have found it and are happy.

I think the sentiments differ because times are different.

When one expects to die within a short amount of time, then love and companionship is not high on a list of "things to do in life". In 92 when my late partner and I were diagnosed, having HIV was a death sentence. It was only 18 months later that my partner passed away. I believed that my HIV would progress too (especially having stopped taking the only med available AZT at that time) and within another 2 yrs I would die also. I very nearly did die with PCP in the hospital just 2 yrs later. Personally, I never expected to be well enough again, or lucky enough, to fall in love with a second great guy, and it took me a decade to acknowledge it in my own head and sort out my feelings.

Nowadays the meds are making a dramatic different. Now when you're diagnosed, they tell you that you may live out a normal lifespan. That's much different from 18 months. With only 18 months, you plan on your funeral. If you have your whole life though, well, then anything, including love, is possible.

But we're still in a transition time of thinking here in there forums. Some are on once-a-day meds, and are doing well. They shouldn't give up their dreams, ambitions, or search for love. Some of us though are sick or not doing well with the meds, and love is just something they can't afford to waste time on.

Although I'm a "realist", I usually get bashed in these threads for being "pessimistic". The reality of my situation is that I've had 15 yrs struggling with meds to keep this infection from killing me - and it's a struggle I have very nearly lost several times. It's a struggle I may not be able to keep doing for much longer. I am "living with AIDS". I understand why I came to this site - to find out more info. I wish I had come here sooner and I might have gotten more support through these years and difficulties I have had.

However, personally, I don't understand why there are so many members here regularly who either aren't on meds or are on some one-a-day plan doing well. I believe that they should go live their lives (and find their loves). Instead they hang out here, worried or fretting, and telling other members that we're just too pessimistic. We're not pessimists; we're just being realistic about our lives and limited futures. I think there's a HUGE difference in "living with HIV" and "living with AIDS".

Though I thought MtD and Betty were harsh in their posts, I do understand their opinions. They have dealt with this illness in their lives for a long time, just as I have. We're all a little jaded by time and circumstances to be expecting the best things in life to come our way. I sure didn't go looking for love - heck, I even avoided it for years - and never expected to find it a second time. That's just not something that happens to someone while they sick, fighting a terminal illness.

I told my story for that reason. This is a site for people dealing with a terminal illness. For the most part, love is out of the question, when you're very life is in question. However, you are right too. For many people, whose HIV is "chronic, manageable", there's still plenty of hope out there for life and love. If someone "living with AIDS" can find love then there's no reason others can't too. I believe that if someone is well (ie not on meds, one a day pill, "living with HIV", etc) then they need to quit hanging out here with a bunch of sick people and their problems and go live life. A happy life. And maybe even find love.

Leatherman---- Ah, yes, the movie and where I got my name. Of course, I have the movie too but the Vampire Chronicle books were way better. It warmed my cold heart to see the masses worried about me. Thanks for thinking of me....

Sorry to hijack for a brief moment now back to the topic at hand. Personally, I do not worry about dying, it is inevitable. I just would not like to die alone and would like to know what love is before doing so. Call me vain but I use to be concerned about how I would look when I died. I wanted to look good but then I grew up. Honestly, it doesn't matter anyway because I want to be cremated. But if I was to be in a coffin and become worm food, I would want to go out the same way I came in....butt ass naked.

I guess I still feel that love will find it's way to me some day. I try to remain hopeful or it's the good green that keeps me that way, I don't know which.

Leatherman I fully understand your point of view on this disease and that love may no longer be a priority.

I guess also that with the time, the will or the hope to start a new relationship can decline.

But if this disease is a difficult test, love is always a nice event.Sure it may no longer be a priority, but someone with a similar condition exists in every cities in this world.

So why remove love from the todo list ?You said yourself that in 92, you did not think being here for a long time. But we are now 15 years later.

I admire you for your courage. And for the fact that despite this disease, you take the time to explain the things with kindness.

When you speak about infected (but "healthy") people who spend their time on the forums instead of enjoying life, I can give you my point of view.

Write an article takes 10 minutes. Read the answers, respond to them take maybe 20 min.So the effective time spent on the internet is maybe of 1-2h depending on the day of the week.I think that the Internet is sometimes misleading. It gives the feeling that people have spend their time on the forum between 2 posts, but I'm convinced that the truth is that most of us are doing a lot of things in between.

Finally, I also wanted to give you my views concerning the stabilization of the disease.

I am infected with HIV since 18 months, but I can not predict more than you how much time I have left.I just decided to not think about this disease. Not because my health allows me to do so, but because "it will come when it will happen".

As such, I really don't think that there is a big difference between the newly infected and the others. Remember yourself in 92 when you thought you won't be here for a long time, despite the fact that you was "newly" infected.But the time you have live with this disease is different. And I guess that this time can easily impact the moods many of the LTNP. So I can understand the moods of those people.

You have anzway taken the time to share your vision of the disease by sharing moments of your life and I would like to thank you for that again. Your testimony sheds light on how this disease can be felt. It also shows that even when nothing goes well, things can always improve. Because we never know, and that's all what we know.

Of course, I have the movie too but the Vampire Chronicle books were way better....I guess I still feel that love will find it's way to me some day. I try to remain hopeful or it's the good green that keeps me that way, I don't know which.

I agree with you about the books. how many are in that series now? 7 ,8?? I liked Lestat much better in this movie. Cruise didn't play him enough as the "brat prince". but maybe that comes more after he bites Christ. LOL It was funny watching this flix too. I keep thinking, just wait David - you'll end up in another body and a vampire soon enough. ;)The Mayfield Witches are pretty cool too.

Hope is a good thing to have. (well, so is the green especially on days like today when I was puking from the meds again)

Back on the topic,I think that's what was upsetting to John. So many have given up the hope. Especially after being infected with HIV. Not only do you have to face up to your own mortality (tick tick tick goes the clock even faster now) but sex becomes troublesome and problematic. (me and the neggie partner do it safely; but there's that .0001% risk or whatever that plays in my mind).

As I told John, it's hard to think about love when just living is a task. We all are here with the same problem but in such different situations. Whereas, me in my mid 40s ,coming up on 2 decades of dealing with AIDS, might not have any interest in finding love (like betty and mtd have said they don't in their situations), I don't think any of us here would tell Mouse (he's still under 20, right?) not to keep on looking for love. Matter of fact, I think it's worth encouraging those kinds of people (like Mouse, John2038, etc) to continue living. and to continue looking for love.

It's got to be a downer to them sometimes listening to us jaded old-timers moaning and groaning about it all. (that's why I added that part about them going out and living it up rather than hangin out with us. LOL) Even though we're here with the same problem, we're actually in very different situations and the truth for one person to live by is not the truth for someone else.

I see John just posted something, so I'll finish up my thoughts in answer to him.

I guess also that with the time, the will or the hope to start a new relationship can decline.

You said yourself that in 92, you did not think being here for a long time. But we are now 15 years later.... As such, I really don't think that there is a big difference between the newly infected and the others. Remember yourself in 92 when you thought you want be there for long despite the fact that you was not infected since so long.But the time you have spend living with this disease is different. And I guess that this time can easily impact the moods many of the LTNP.

Hey again John,

See that's part of what I was telling Queen about similar problem/different situation. In the 90s, things were such that my partner was dead in 18 months, our friends had died, and I was in the hospital within 2 yrs of my diagnosis very close to death. Needless to say, being only 30, the last thing I had ever thought about was what would happen to my body with me living 600 miles from my family, without even a partner anymore to handle those duties.

Barely beating death, I went back home to "recouperate" from the pnuemonia. I made funeral arrangements. I made peace with my friends and family. I started clearing my house to save my relatives that hard experience. I never expected to make new friends, find a new partner or anything. I never expected to see the next year. Staying sickly, this condition went on for years (ah, this is the disadvantage to the newer meds. I'm alive but the cost is that I'm still very sickly, and I've lost my job and my house. The thought of living on disability into my 50s scares the heck outta me as it's hardly enough to live on. Whatever will I do if these meds keep working well and I live to 60? but that's another thread in itself) I just never expected to not only outlive my partner; but our 6 cocker spaniels from the first pack. In Dec, I buried a dog from the second pack. I've now even outlived a dog my partner never even knew! I sure never expected this life.

So in 92, when I was diagnosed with HIV because I took the test after my partner was feverish for a month, things were bleak. I quit taking the AZT (the only drug available) because it was literally killing me faster than my partner was dying without any medications. Today is much different. Today if you're diagnosed with an early test (instead of when you are in the hospital with an OI), it may be yrs before you start the meds and deal with the side effects. Then when drugs are started things are different. Many many people now take Atripla once a day, go to work, live their lives, and go skiing or whatever (find love!)

I think there is a HUGE difference in the opinions of the newly diagnosed (within 5ish yrs) and those diagnosed 10+ yrs ago. We'll probably never agree on many things because although we have the same illness, the situations are just too different to even be compared.

It gives the feeling that people have spend their time on the forum between 2 posts, but I'm convinced that the truth is that most of us are doing a lot of things in between.

ain't that the truth. LOL During these posts, I washed dishes, played with the dogs, puked , vacuumed the house, and tried to figure out what to make for dinner when my other half gets home. Plus I tried to take time to really compose an answer for you. Instant messages are good for quick retorts but I always try to work on and give some thought to what I post in a forum.

I admire you for your courage. And for the fact that despite this disease, you take the time to explain the things with kindness.

You have taken the time to share your vision of the disease by sharing moments of your life and I would like to thank you for that again. Your testimony sheds light on how this disease can be felt. It also shows that even when nothing goes well, things can always improve. Because we never know, and that's all what we know.

Think nothing of it. I've always tried to be polite (gotta make my Southern momma happy and prove that she raised me right) and I've always been honest. I know my story sounds bleak at times (and I've always been such a happy guy that that really bothers me) but I never tell the tales to get sympathy. I tell them to spur people to ENJOY THE LIFE YOU HAVE. Every day I've been alive since march 14th, 1996 when PCP nearly killed me on my birthday has been an EXTRA day and I try to cherish each one. A good day is a day the sun shines. A GREAT day is a day that the sun shines, and I don't puke! LOL I see so many people being miserable and think how can they be that way? Don't they realize how fleeting today is? How quickly life can be gone? Even on my worst days, I hope for the best and never expect the worse; because, as you'd agreed, who knows what tomorrow will really bring.

mikie(who doesn't expect a cure in his lifetime; but has hope that the meds will keep getting better!)

I have read your answer and I will answer better tomorrow (2am here ).

But many thanks for the positive spirit that you hold.In your own way, and without knowing it, you give a lot of energy to the others.I say this for your interest in the life and your positive mind that allows you to be here today and always appreciate a sun that shines, despite all the things you have been through ! Really, sincerely. Think about it. Bravo !

Leatherman--- I have yet to read about the Witches. The only book that bored me a bit in regard to the Vamp Chronicles was the one about Armand, who was a child vampire but in the first one he was an adult and in the second one he seemed almost like a young adult with a childish face. I thought Cruise did a good job playing Lestat considering the time period that it was. Stuart Townsend gave me fever and I thought he was excellent as Lestat and performing as a rocker. I actually like some of the songs from the movie and listen to them every now and then.

Ah, well in my situation, I have not given up hope but am through with looking and being constantly disappointed. Most times this is before I am even considering telling a dude my status. Something always happens that turns me off from a person. I have tried going about it from a purely physical standpoint and the sex can be out of this world but I am still yearning for more. Or someone with substance whom I can connect with on some level. As I like to say, seduce my mind and my body will surely follow... Over here, it is almost like pulling teeth to try to hold conversations with men. It seems like I run across the ones who would like to be wannabe rappers or gangsters. And can barely hold a conversation without cursing every other sentence. I know I tend to curse from time to time and sometimes uses a bit of slang but I can talk w/o it too. I don't find gangsters appealing. They either end up in jail or dead, been there, done that.

Or I get the ones who are old enough to be my father. Uh, I didn't request a Sugar Daddy with one foot in the grave and the other on a banana peel. And this isn't The Color Purple and my name sure as hell ain't Celie. And I have even come across a few young ones who want to "holla" at me. Unless I am without my hearing aids, I don't appreciate anyone trying to holla at me. And I don't think pants hanging past your ass so I can see your boxers particularly appealing. Make me want to go grab a diaper and change their ass. Last time I knew, I was fixed and I don't recall pushing anyone else out other than my kids. I could really go on and on but I am just showing you what I have to work with over here living in the mistake on the lake.

I am just showing you what I have to work with over here living in the mistake on the lake.

there's a bunch of places with that nick. LOL I've been here by the football hall of fame just 50 miles S of Ohio's mistake on the lake - the good old city of cleveland - for 20+ yrs.

hey, like I told john, it ain't easy finding love and you just might not find it either. But I think don't think that love is out of the question just because someone has HIV.

I think I can understand both sides of the coin though.

I got things worked out in my head after losing Randy and really was quite okay about being alone. I even took some pride in handling my life alone; but that's because I had felt so damaged by losing him. When you lose your other half - then you're nothing but half a person. But I found out that being alone wasn't the end of my life.

I'm sure if I'd never had such a great guy though, I'd still be moaning about the prospects on the market and looking for someone. I did try to get back on the dating scene for a while there near the start of the 2000s but there's that disclosure problem, internalized stigma, etc. - all that fun HIV-baggage. Even with my problems, as I started feeling healthier, I "tried" to find companionship, friendship, a life outside my life alone as a hermit.

I guess it's inherit in our natures to not want to be alone. I never did; but did come to terms with it when I had to. That's why I was so surprised to end up in a quandrey of trying to NOT have a relationship with my current partner. Even when I got the right meds to finally work for me, the HIV was doing a number on my head. I was afraid of infecting him. But I was more afraid of him having to grieve my loss. I've got no control of that so it's just a useless worry. I have enough problems without having to create any, so I took the chance and took the plunge. So far I don't regret it either; although it is weird having someone go to my doctor appts with me. (and he steals my blankets in the night!)

My conclusion then is that finding love is dicey no matter what. HIV just complicates it, but doesn't neccesarily mean the search is called off. I think as long as you've got some health and a will to live, it's not to late to try to find someone.

In deference to the others, I will say, does this mean you have to find someone? No, of course not. There's nothing wrong with being on your own. But you do need to reach a point though where you like yourself and your life. Sometimes life just doesn't give you the right opportunity and you have to handle it all by yourself.

well, it's nearly 1am in the states now, john, and I'm off to bed. I can't believe I rambled on so much in this thread.

I never gave up hope and I have found love. I had to grow a thick skin, I had to face rejection from many dates and I had to remind myself that it wasn't me, it was them. It was "them" looking at my virus, and not me as a person. I am glad I persevered, just read the Dating Threads, .

We all meet people the same way now that we did before we became HIV+. We put ourselves out there and reach out to others hoping we won't be punched in the face and/or shot down for being who we are. HIV is just one more negative in our proverbial basket of what we have to offer our future partners. The trick seems to be like Moonlight said. Growing a thick enough skin to survive all the bricks, bats and rejections we have to go through in order to meet that person who will love us in spite of what's in our particular easter baskets.

So I'm not a kid, so I won't ask you "how to meet someone" cause anyway, I know.But just about your experience in this field. How did you meet your partners. Experience and maybe recommendations.

John,

I met my two longest-lasting mates through different avenues Ė one for ten years and my current boyfriend of more than three. Both of these relationships have been with HIV negative men. I believe itís important to meet a potential love interest with an open mind to possibilities. If someone is reasonably intelligent, acceptance of you being HIV+ wonít be an issue. A lot of people seem to think that itís hopeless that way, but I assure you itís not. If you go into something thinking itíll fail, then it likely will. Self-fulfilling prophecies, I think thatís called.

Another important thing to me is not to have too many absolutes in terms of what you want in a mate. People are not made to order. If you know you have something to offer, then you will likely find someone who has something compatible to offer you too. And being okay with being on my own is also important to me. My boyfriend and I live apart and get together a few times a week. Neither of us really wants it any other way so it works out well.

If you donít believe thereís love after HIV, then there wonít be, but you could risk becoming bitter if you go down that path. Keep your eyes and more importantly your heart open and you just might be surprised one day. Thatís usually when I fell in love Ė when I least expected it.

questionHow did you meet your partner. Experience and maybe recommendations.

leatherman explains that the search of the soulmate may no longer be part of the todo list for many people, making the distinction between two populations:

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I think there's a HUGE difference in "living with HIV" and "living with AIDS".

His conclusion is

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This is a site for people dealing with a terminal illness. For the most part, love is out of the question, when you're very life is in question. However, you are right too. For many people, whose HIV is "chronic, manageable", there's still plenty of hope out there for life and love. If someone "living with AIDS" can find love then there's no reason others can't too. I believe that if someone is well (ie not on meds, one a day pill, "living with HIV", etc) then they need to quit hanging out here with a bunch of sick people and their problems and go live life. A happy life. And maybe even find love.

Queen Akasha is in the side of the "little optimistic"

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Personally, I do not worry about dying, it is inevitable. I just would not like to die alone and would like to know what love is before doing so...I guess I still feel that love will find it's way to me some day. I try to remain hopeful or it's the good green that keeps me that way, I don't know which.

The argument then focused on the distinction made by leatherman :

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Finally, I also wanted to give you my views concerning the stabilization of the disease.

I am infected with HIV since 18 months, but I can not predict more than you how much time I have left.I just decided to not think about this disease. Not because my health allows me to do so, but because"it will come when it will happen".

As such, I really don't think that there is a big difference between the newly infected and the others.Remember yourself in 92 when you thought you won't be here for a long time, despite the fact that you was "newly" infected.But the time you have live with this disease is different.And I guess that this time can easily impact the moods many of the LTNP. So I can understand the moods of those people.

leatherman back on this distinction, saying that:

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As I told John, it's hard to think about love when just living is a task. We all are here with the same problem but in such different situations. Whereas, me in my mid 40s ,coming up on 2 decades of dealing with AIDS, might not have any interest in finding love (like betty and mtd have said they don't in their situations), I don't think any of us here would tell Mouse (he's still under 20, right?) not to keep on looking for love. Matter of fact, I think it's worth encouraging those kinds of people (like Mouse, John2038, etc) to continue living. and to continue looking for love.

Queen Akasha come back to the question to declare her HIV status.

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Ah, well in my situation, I have not given up hope but am through with looking and being constantly disappointed. Most times this is before I am even considering telling a dude my status. Something always happens that turns me off from a person.

Leatherman answers to Queen Akasha to says also that love is possible for everyone

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hey, like I told john, it ain't easy finding love Cheesy and you just might not find it either. Roll Eyes But I think don't think that love is out of the question just because someone has HIV.

I think I can understand both sides of the coin though...I got things worked out in my head after losing Randy and really was quite okay about being alone...I'm sure if I'd never had such a great guy though, I'd still be moaning about the prospects on the market and looking for someone...I guess it's inherit in our natures to not want to be alone. I never did; but did come to terms with it when I had to...My conclusion then is that finding love is dicey no matter what. HIV just complicates it, but doesn't neccesarily mean the search is called off. I think as long as you've got some health and a will to live, it's not to late to try to find someone.

In deference to the others, I will say, does this mean you have to find someone? No, of course not.

killfoile talks about the disclosure int the US

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in the US, but in most states it is against the law to reveal anyone's status. ..Given our status, that is just a risk you will have to take, but I doubt that anyone you fell in "like" with, would do that to you, assuming you disclose before any heavy sexual activity.

For killfoile love is possible

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As to encouragement, I can offer plenty...The night I gave him the news, he responded by saying: "Neither of us should spend the night alone tonight."We went on to have a beautiful four year relationship, intense sex and all and he remains negative to this day...Fate would have it that I responded to a personal ad a year later and thought I might as well try meeting people and if something develops, then great, but if not, at least I would have some new friends... I met Stephen .. We had so much in common .. But we were also very different...I married Stephen in December, 2001 and we are going on our ninth year together. We recently moved from the States to Canada, where I am a citizen, so we could enjoy the true meaning of being married. I shudder to think where I might be today, if it had not been for one small personal ad, I read, on that fateful day.

MOONLIGHT1114 have meet her love

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I never gave up hope and I have found love. I had to grow a thick skin, I had to face rejection from many dates and I had to remind myself that it wasn't me, it was them. It was "them" looking at my virus, and not me as a person. I am glad I persevered, just read the Dating Threads, Wink.

My infamous quote: "No one will know you exist unless you try."

SteveA makes no real difference between the two side

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We all meet people the same way now that we did before we became HIV+...HIV is just one more negative in our proverbial basket of what we have to offer our future partners..Growing a thick enough skin to survive all the bricks, bats and rejections we have to go through in order to meet that person who will love us in spite of what's in our particular easter baskets

I believe itís important to meet a potential love interest with an open mind to possibilities. If someone is reasonably intelligent, acceptance of you being HIV+ wonít be an issue. A lot of people seem to think that itís hopeless that way, but I assure you itís not. If you go into something thinking itíll fail, then it likely will. Self-fulfilling prophecies, I think thatís called...Thatís usually when I fell in love Ė when I least expected it.

General conclusionMeet the soul mate is about fighting, believing, and love is always possible for everyone .. especially if we did not expect it to come.

Of course, this seems perfectly logical.

To be more practical.Let a person interested in you.You are going to dinner together, and your partner (neg) tells you: "I love you".You are POZHow do you deal with this situation (experience, recommendation) ?

I don't have any experience finding romance since I've become +, however in the three or so weeks that I've know I was +, I've begun to make several friends. So if you want romance and amke that a priority, you'll probably find someone. However I always found people seem to find a relationship when they least expect it.

General conclusionMeet the soul mate is about fighting, believing, and love is always possible for everyone .. especially if we did not expect it to come.

Of course, this seems perfectly logical.

To be more practical.Let a person interested in you.You are going to dinner together, and your partner (neg) tells you: "I love you".You are POZHow do you deal with this situation (experience, recommendation) ?

Logical and practical? Maybe this topic should be moved to research?

If your "date" is already telling you they love you and have no idea you're poz. Well, I'd wait before registering at Target.

I do believe love is possible for everyone but it is much harder for the poz person as we all know. And yes, a neg person can declare love for someone despite that person being poz(assuming the neg person knows the other person's status) and they live happily ever after. But let's flip to the other side of the coin, shall we. The neg declares their love for the poz person(not knowing status) but then the poz person feels the need to disclose their status since the neg says it's love. Of course, there is going to be a bit of shock from the neg person and prolly some silence. Now this can go 2 different ways. The neg can say it doesn't matter and they live happily ever after or the neg person can do a 180 and end the relationship. Now say the person ends the relationship? Where is the love then? Or was it really love in the first place? How does a poz person pick up the pieces from something like that?

Love is hard for anyone to find even if you're not poz. But the chances become even more harder and frustrating when you are. Then some say, you got to know where to look. I would like to be enlightened on where to look? We all know how things are with the dating sites. And yeah, a person could look at a support group. For those of you who have found love with a neg or a poz, I am truly happy for you. But for those of us that are here struggling to find love, it is a very depressing thing.

Another thing, I have a question about is what Killfoile said. It is against the law for anyone to reveal someone's status. Now is that law only for those in the medical field or anyone? And what states enforce this law? You always hear about the law in regards to dislosing but never on revealing someone's status. Killefoile or anyone knowing more about this?

wow, aids = death. having hiv means we are gonna die early. i've been thinking about that all day. and i probably will continue to thing about it for a while. i know this is one hella of a tangent, but i guess i had kinda ignored that reality.

i'd recently glimpsed upon one or two hiv articles proporting average life spans for hiv positive folks (assuming they have no other serious preexisting conditions and have access to medical care). i've also read that more and more hiv poz folk are dieing from other chronic/degenerative diseases. this information gave me hope, and allowed me to place some of my hiv concerns on the backburner.

shit, shit, shit. i don't really know what to say to that. i was all freaked out - measuring how much quality i would be able to fit into a reduced life span. 10 years from the first dr, 27 from another, then an average life span back to "you will die early" from mtd. that definitely puts a damper on my upcoming romantic pursuits. i don't think im ready to deal with issues surrounding my mortality, and the fact that it was so brazenly put, even if it wasnt directed to me, has somewhat fucked with my head. i am not ready to embrace this reality. i've barely got my head around other facets of this disease. not to mention the plethora of ongoing issues in the rest of my life.

Aids=Death? What can I say to that? Ummm... Being Born = Death! We all die eventually and nobody really knows when they'll cross that great divide. It's not what kills us that matters. It's what makes us live and what we do with our lives that counts. I'd say it depends on your outlook and what you want to focus on. If you focus on dying, you'll lead a pretty miserable existence and probably waste a lot of great opportunities. If you focus on living and taking advantage of every opportunity you'll still die, but I believe you'll die happier than if you never tried.

That one's life expectancy may be shorter than the average hardly seems a reason to give up on love. Life expectancy in the US went up about one year per decade in the 20th centrury (for men). So even if HIV cuts 10 years off the life expectancy, that merely puts you back into the shoes of your grandparents -- and they did not give up on love because life was fleeting!

A few voices from the past:

The grave's a fine and private place,But none I think do there embrace.

Now therefore, while the youthful hueSits on thy skin like morning dew,And while thy willing soul transpiresAt every pore with instant fires,Now let us sport us while we may;

Oh, I'm not "giving up" on love because of a shorter life expectancy. I attribute my attitude to many foul experiences with a mixed bag of nuts who seemed to love nothing more than to watch me whore out my emotions too freely, only to be nailed to the cross by betrayal.

Logged

I've never killed anyone, but I frequently get satisfaction reading the obituary notices.-Clarence Darrow

Wow, I haven't seen an analysis of a thread with such quotes and bolded screen names since the Handshake of Doom.

I've loved, and fucked, done both at the same time and plenty of neither for some periods of time. I don't really miss either when I don't have them but I sure do enjoy it when I have both.

Like Queen, I don't want to die alone. I'm approaching that age (barely) when it's a good thing to live with someone, even if it's just a roommate, but I'd prefer to be really sharing a home with them, not just halving one. Plus I'm having an ant problem right now--that wouldn't be a pretty thing for the coroner to find.

a) you're older. this doesn't matter if you're poz or not. after 35 (just a generalization not an actual factoid), chances of love go down cause lots of people have already gotten hooked upb) you're too jaded from having waded through all the jerks (betty explained this one well )

or, and this may be the reason for some pozzies,(like what MtD was alluding too, and behind the attitude that was bothering john starting this thread) c) you're too sick. frankly AIDS is a terminal disease. for some staying semi-well is a chore all unto itself. when you're just trying to stay alive, love is a luxury not a neccesity.

(that's why I said there's a huge difference in attitudes for someone "living with HIV" and someone IMHO "dying from AIDS". I list myself in that latter category and wasn't looking for love myself. It was nothing but sheer luck to have a SECOND shot with love, especially after how many times I've already cheated death. Sometimes I still feel like I'm being unfair to my current partner knowing that our time together most than likely won't be that long; but he understood that risk before I would commit. My late partner didn't quite make it to our 10 yr anniversary. I hope I can make it 10 yrs with this partner - but I have my doubts.)

so there are reasons why "giving up" looking for love could be an option in your life. Just being poz is not enough of a reason though. an analogy would be that you might give up looking if you had an end-stage incurable cancer; but you could still hope to find love if you were just diagnosed with diabetes. That's why I've rambled on so much in this thread. I don't think a newbie (for want of a better word) should ever be told to give up on love. these newer meds might keep you around and well enough to work until you retire, so love is not out of the question. However, I personally can understand how this disease can bring your life to a point that love is something not attainable or not worth striving for.

We could even confuse this issue more though and discuss how much harder it is for gays (at least in most of the USA) to actually meet, date and form stable relationships due to lack of prospects, stigma, homophobia, ageism, and the bar/one-night-stand scene -- much less disclosing a poz status but since not every one here is queer, I was trying to keep my comments generic.

Plus I'm having an ant problem right now--that wouldn't be a pretty thing for the coroner to find.

I just spewed Coke all over my screen. thanks for the chuckle.and thank you all for such an interesting discussion so far. I don't know if John is getting the answer he was looking for, but it's been a thought provoking topic.

I found love after diagnosis. We have been together for 3 years now. We have a great life and we met online. Never give up hope. Love may not turn out to be exactly what you thought it would be in the clouded dreams of youth, but love finds us in many unexpected places at different times. Always keep faith you will find someone to love you and you can love in return. It will find you when you least expect it. Trust me. If I can find a cowboy in the middle of nowhere who accepts me for who I am, anyone can!

as a newbie, i haven't quite given up on love, but im hella jaded. that shit was well into the works before i became poz. the diagnosis was just the seal on the deal. another thing i'd like to add to mike's list of impediments to gay dating is role models. straight romance is tough enough, but at least there are parents/adults to pull aside and have a drunken moment or memory sharing episode to help guide the heteros through love. then there are the fucked up love shows, albeit unrealistic, but still portraying a fantasy. we homos get bars and advice from people in the same boat. hopefully the next generation will have it better, they at least get more gay tv shows and books on love. then they have us, we are move visible and have fucked up (at least myself) a good many relationships to provide great what not to do advice.

now im just looking for someone as jaded/cynical/bitter as myself. its great to be romantic and optimistic, but that shit needs to be tempered by a strong dose or reality (credit to iggy on that one).