I have read that alcohol consumption is a risk factor for estrogen positive breast cancer. Well, tonight I read that it is a stronger risk for Lobular BC than it is for IDC. I'm sure that's what contributed to mine. I also read that lobular becomes less responsive to the Al's over time. I tried to cut and paste, but the page wouldn't let me cut. I'll try to find another link tomorrow.

Thanks MissouriCat -- that was an interesting article. My mom NEVER home cooked vegetables. I've been eating canned vegetables my entire life. I've read about BPA and do now store left overs in glass containers and do try to stay away from canned food, but I'm not that successful a lot of the time. When I saw my surgeon yesterday I told her about my evening drinking history and she said immediately that alcohol is a risk factor for breast cancer. Have you ever taken the "am I at risk for breast cancer" tests online. My only risk factor has always been not having children. Every thing else on those American Cancer society tests I did well on --- so my tests results were always "less than average risk". Those test should include many of the other strong risk factors -- not just when you started your period or went through menopause or had children etc. etc. Now that we have cancer we've learned a lot, but the general public has no clue.

I think science has no clue. I know women that have had kids, breast fed, never drank and developed cancer. But I also know that my DH's ex-wife is a recovering alcoholic, had a kid and is 77 and never had cancer. I think cancer is genetic and environmental and though lifestyle can contribute to it, there's really no way to know if your genes plus a bad lifestyle will matter. NO CLUE. I think all of us that are newly diagnosed try and blame ourselves and figure out "what we did" to deserve this. STOP IT.

never really a big drinker and really do-n't like wine-- so alcohol did not do it for me either-- regular exerciser (3 marathons) had 2 kids, my weight is reasonable... I seriously think my ILC was caused by stress-- lots of things happening in my life in the 2-3 years before dx-- but on said it had probably been there for 7-8 years anyway. Then I got thyroid cancer - very low level, very curable,,, I suspect that is from mammograms and dental xrays. And most recently, dx with melanoma (that I found) even though I have been going to derm for full body checks for over 20 years every 6 months!!! We both missed it-- and it would not have been something that I would have thought looked "irregular". I just had my regular visit with him and told him that I had no intention of dying from melanoma so we were going to have to start using a magnifying glass! He mentioned that alot of these things are held over from childhood (I wear suncsreen all the time) but of course we did not as kids....

Anyway, I have realized through all of this that I only can control what I do--eat and sleep well, exercise almost every day (all things I have been doing forever), be watchful of things that seem or feel unusual and be religious with every single follow up appointment-- onco, pcp, endo, derm, gyn,dentist, everyone...... I have been so lucky because everything has been discovered so early by me or by my pcp who is relentless... My onc always says -you will know something is wrong before I do-and she has been right about that.

I think alot of us start out thinking "why me"... but for me, I eventually got to the place where I though "well, why NOT me?" My mother is 80, drinks a scotch every night and still smokes Lucky Strikes. No cancer or anything else (that she knows of). It's not fair, but it is what it is.... I agree with wally (or nash) that it is a crapshoot-- and you don't want to spend too much of your time worrying about this--- there is a life to be lived!!!!!!

so right!!! I always find it funny when people ask those questions " did you have bc in your family? never wear sunscreen, etc. I think it is human nature to want answers- and of course we ask those questions so we can rule out things for ourselves-but the truth is that no one really knows why one person who is living . a healthy lifestyle (which is pretty much everyone I know who has had cancer) gets cancer, and others don't. It really is a crapshoot. I felt, early on, that it was not a good use of my time to start to think about what I might have done to contribute to this when I realized that I just did not know...

It just felt better to deal with it- get my resources together- and figure out how to move forward. (with help from therapy, etc). I definitely enjoy everthing more these days-- and if I was a wine drinker, I would be having wine regularly!!!

Other than cancers that may be directly caused by smoking, I don't think any other cancers are blamed on the individual in the way that breast cancer is.

A family member passed away a few years ago from colon cancer. This individual had horrible eating habits - if anyone might have had a diet that could have caused colon cancer, it was him. Yet the idea that he might have done something to bring on his cancer was never mentioned and people would have been appalled if it had been suggested. Interestingly, colon cancer is one of those rare cancers for which screening can actually stop the development of the cancer. Screening for breast cancer might find a breast cancer while it's still small and early stage, but screening does squat to stop breast cancer from developing. Yet with colon cancer, if a polyp is found and removed during a colonoscopy, a diagnosis of colon cancer quite possibly has been averted. So proper diet and screening actually can stop colon cancer in many cases - yet we don't blame colon cancer patients for causing their cancer. I'm not suggesting we do, but it highlights how differently breast cancer is treated.

While environmental and lifestyle factors may contribute to (although not directly cause) the development of breast cancer in a percent of cases, overwhelmingly breast cancer is caused by factors beyond our control. Yet the medical community and the media (and yes, even this site) latch onto those environmental and lifestyle factors, blow them out of proportion in terms of their actual influence on breast cancer rates, and make women feel responsible for "not doing the right thing" and thereby causing their breast cancer.

wallycat, I'm with you. Science and the medical community don't have a clue what causes breast cancer to develop in any one of us. In all likelihood it is a combination of factors that is unique to each individual, starting with our genetic make up. The blame game directed at women is a way to avert attention away from the fact that the medical community knows so little about why any one individual will develop breast cancer.

“No power so effectually robs the mind of all its powers of acting and reasoning as fear.” Edmund Burke

Thanks for your informative posts. The blame game starts post-mammo for some women when the nurse assigned to the BC centers starts reviewing the risk factors that place one at higher risk for developing BC such as when you have your first child, etc. I felt like she was placing blame rather than being an educator. What about those things we did that were supposed to decrease the risk such as breast feeding, etc. which was pooh poohed. So the blame game needs to stop and we need to stop self punishing ourselves because we are in this awful club. We do need to demand more from the medical community for causation, evidence based preventative measures and a cure, not just the current treatments.

I remember the week I was diagnosed, walking into the grocery store behind four obese women, and while I never think like this when I'm thinking logically, I thought to myself, "Here I am with this monster growing inside me when I have maintained a normal weight throughout my life and these ladies who haven't---they probably don't have cancer."

Recently, a woman with carotid artery cancer who I've become acquainted with wrote me an email saying that she has removed all sugar from her diet because "sugar feeds cancer" and she hoped I was "doing the same." I wrote her back, and carefully told her that I'd not eaten sugar in over fifteen years, and while I prefer to eat this way and plan to continue, I didn't do it for cancer prevention in the first place and it surely didn't prevent cancer.

Momand2kids, you cracked me up about your mother drinking scotch and smoking Lucky Strikes! My mother survived advanced breast cancer twenty-five years ago (she had nine positive nodes AFTER neo-adjuvant chemo, which was fairly new at the time--and ten nodes was then considered Stage IV). She is now 81 years old and the only liquids that enter her body are coffee, wine and vodka. That's been the case since she was diagnosed, and as long as I can remember. She smoked through two of her three pregnancies (maybe that's my problem) and her favorite food group is sugar. She eats almost zero vegetables.

To Beesie's point, do you ever hear the suggestion that men have prostate cancer because they eat sugar, drink alcohol, don't exercise enough or eat too much red meat?

This is how I interpret what I've read ----I have hormone positive breast cancer. They want me to go on a dreaded drug to reduce my estrogen levels in order to reduce cancer reoccurrence. The literature talks about avoiding alcohol, obesity and who knows what else. They know that alcohol increases estrogen levels -- so do fat cells. Therefore, they want BC survivors to avoid anything that can increase their estrogen levels in hopes of further reducing reoccurrence rates. I don't think they are saying that estrogen causes cancer -- we all have something else going on there. However, estrogen does seem to stimulate cancer growth. So, in my case, since I drank wine every single night for 30 years it may be that it stimulated whatever predisposition I had for BC. Someone else without the predisposition can drink themselves to death and never get cancer.

Jessie, I wish it were that easy. Yes, some cancers are fueled by estrogen. Your body will try to make estrogen, which is why the anti-hormonals/oopherectomy are standards of care. If you look at some of the links I posted on other "alcohol" threads, there are some theories that state intermittent hormone use can actually be beneficial. They just DON'T KNOW. Why some women respond to antihormonals and others still get recurrence even after being on the drugs that should protect them. They just DON'T KNOW.

I am certainly not advocating drinking or overeating or urging people to be reckless with their choices. What I, and I think many other gals who posted, seem to be saying is that if someone enjoys a glass of wine with dinner, then these studies should not deter them. In some cases (and there are studies that showed women who drank moderately had a higher survival after getting BC), the alcohol can actually be beneficial. Never mind the relaxation it can offer.

Yes, if alcohol "caused" your breast cancer, it is unfortunate, but it doesn't correlate that continued drinking means it will come back. No science to back that up. It would be great for those of us that enjoy alcohol to be able to turn back the hands of time, never drink and see if we would end up here anyway; we just can't.

Some people enjoy alcohol more than others...socially, for stress, for taste, for enjoying with dinner as a food....so if someone doesn't enjoy it or feels they are abusing it, it is a good time to take stock. For those that treat it like a food, then stop reading the studies, LOL.

Wallycat --- I really don't want to take an aromatase inhibitor and will be having a discussion with my Oncologist about it on Monday. I'm sure he's going to make the "lower estrogen" argument. So there evidently have been enough studies that show the drugs do lower reoccurrence by reducing estrogen. Don't they say the reoccurrence is about 30% less on the drugs. I know there have been other studies that contradict the estrogen theory and of course everyone's cancer really is individual. So nothing will work for everyone. If they weren't pretty sure of the estrogen connection why would the medical community push the drugs which come with very bad side effects for some women. Big Pharma??

Jessie, I wish I had an explanation and an answer. I think what they find is that sometimes, the tumors/cancer acclimate to an environment with little to no estrogen and adapt. By adding in estrogen, it starves the cancer. Does it work all the time and for everyone? They don't know. Since they do know that initial estrogen depletion tends to promote tumor suppression, that has become the standard of care. They treat with what appears to work. Certainly, there are enough women on this board that had a recurrence WHILE TAKING the drugs that were supposed to prevent that from happening. Your point is very accurate---everyone is an individual and cancer refuses to play by rules. I think that is what many of us have surmised...make the best of the life you are given; try to look over your shoulder just enough but not to the point of removing what joys you can find. The rest is unknowable.

Jessie123 I too, am about to start H therapy. My MO didn't like that I brought up the SEs at our initial meeting this week. She actually said I was being negative. I guess they are used to women just coming in and being assigned an rx. I wanted to ask questions but her response threw be off with that response. I am taking a 7 day vacation and she told me not to start until I return so I can enjoy myself. wow, what is this stuff going to do to me? I am reading here about boneloss, I had asked her about that when I set her off. She never recommened any supplements. Grrr

Also, 98 year old friend has had a glass of wine a day since she was 7!

Carpediem56 ---- Good, we can compare notes. Make sure she gives you the Letrozole.(sp?) if you have ILC. I do have 2 friends who are on Al's and they have no SE's. so I'm also planning on no SE's. I'm terrified about the bone loss and I do think all MO's should order a baseline DEXA before prescribing Al's. I got my own DEXA and have mild osteoporosis in my hip. Now I'm trying to figure out which drug to take for that. But the osteoporosis drugs can cause a jaw problem if you have oral surgery or periodontal work and I have periodontal disease so now I'm just lost. Feel like just skipping the cancer drug and hoping for the best. My brain is so sick of making decisions. Your MO is disregarding your concerns ---- doesn't that make you angry. I'm tired of their short sessions so now I type out each of my questions in advance and give them a copy. Sorry, I'm rambling -- I'm tired and frustrated tonight.

I will write out my questions for my next appointment. But actually she said I could contact her through the patient portal.....so no more appointments? I am scheduled for a bone density screening. Yeah, this MO isn't a good fit. She just said the nurse would give me paperwork about the drug, four pages of cautions and side effects. She sure didn't want to discuss anything about it with me. Short appointment. Never said anything about alcohol. Why can't I start the medication before my vacation? All I could think in my head is that the side effects are going to be noticable.

I went off Letrozole after 12 months. I had terrible joint pain. Some days I couldn't use my hands even they hurt so bad. I just saw my MO about 2 months ago and she wants to put me on Tamoxifen. She said all the AI drugs will have those same side effects. I am now even debating using the Tamoxifen. Sometimes I feel like this is never ending. Now I find out the implant they put in is a Textured implant. In order to avoid getting Lymphoma I am now scheduling an explant. I didn't want the implant to begin with. Give me strenth.

Oh Dakrock -- what a time you've had. How did the doctor make that mistake?? I think I've read that almost a third of women go off the drugs and I bet most are just fine. I know 2 who went off and they are doing well.

jessie13...yes the non compliance rate of anti hormone therapy is about 50 percent due to side effects. I often wonder how that could be considered an effective treatment. We all need to speak upon for better options. Good luck to all

Their sales of alcoholic beverages have been declining, big alcohol companies, ranging from Heineken to AB InBev (the owner of popular beer brands such as Budweiser), see an opportunity: They're investing in non-, or low-alcohol drinks. So too, startup investors and entrepreneurs are hoping to cater to the "sober curious," people who for the sake of wellness are reevaluating their relationships with alcohol and how often they drink."

Carpediem- I'd switch MO's. I just had an appointment with mine to decide on Tamoxifen or Zoladex plus AI's. She gave me a ton of info on each, let me ask about side effects, and then she did give me a recommendation. I had been leaning towards Zoladex plus AI's based on reading studies, so I'm glad she recommended that. I also feel that I'm never rushed and I can also email her with questions and she promptly responds. I don't think you should ever feel rushed!

I start Zoladex this Friday, and then I go on an AI a few months after. I'll definitely be talking with my MO before then to understand which AI she recommends and why.

I am worried about bone loss and my MO is willing to give me a bisphosphonate in the future to combat it, assuming I tolerate the planned hormonal therapy.

Regarding self blame and cancer--it doesn't help/won't help so we must try not do it. What we know is that we WERE dx, and all we can do now is choose how we respond and what to do now to try to save ourselves. Staring back into the rear view mirror means that we'll probably drive off the road and cause more harm to ourselves right now.

Cancer is caused by a "bit flip" so to speak. Something gets turned on that shouldn't have gotten turned on, and drives that aberrant cell to divide when it shouldn't. We aren't completely sure what happened in our own bodies to flip that cell. If it were as simple as not drinking or smoking, as eating low fat or high fat or vegan or running marathons or having a BMI of 19, that would be wonderful, right? We'd have the answer. Point is we won't ever had a definitive answer about why it happened to us and it really doesn't matter right now. If it were a lifestyle issue, then why do little children--little babies--wind up with cancer? Blaming the victim--ourselves-is wasted emotion and won't save us. Getting cancer wasn't our fault.

If you check the latest studies on alcohol and breast cancer recurrence, you will find that moderate drinking does not increase recurrence. Alcohol is linked to developing breast cancer in the first place but not necessarily to recurrence. Of course heavy drinking is not good for your overall health anyway so probably a good idea to limit your intake. BTW I am skinny, active, ate healthy, no smoking, light drinker, no family history and boom I got cancer. I did take HRT (which is linked to ILC), so who knows? I don't. The only thing I did "wrong" was have breasts. Enjoy your occasional glass of wine (or beer).

Trinigirl50 --- yep, I bet it was the HRT. I'm glad to learn that alcohol doesn't contribute to recurrence, but then I stopped drinking 2 years ago. However, I do believe it contributed to my development of ILC. I really did drink every evening for 30 years and in the last 12 years I've been gaining a lot of weight. I never did HRT because I was worried about BC. I had no idea about the alcohol connection. The recurrence is the micro cells (wrong terminology) left over from the original cancer that begin to grow. So it sounds like alcohol doesn't contribute to growth, but evidently has something to do with the original cell disruption that leads to cancer. I find it interesting that being overweight or obese at time of diagnosis greatly increases the risk of recurrence, but they are unclear if losing the weight reduces the risk.

jessie, I'm going with the "Nobody's perfect" theory on cancer. As my BS put it to me in the beginning was your breast made a mistake and neither you or I caused it.

Anyway, I am a moderate drinker, I'm honest about it with all my doctors, and sorry, I'm not quitting anytime soon. I can and do lighten up depending what is going on in my life and treatments. Take days sometimes a week off, I also do some fasting, and I try not to overdo it to the point of de-hydration. If I'm having 2 or 3 glasses of wine, I will have a water in between and I always take water to bed with me. When I started the AI I had terrible hot flashes and all out sweats. Found that the more red wine I had the more often the flashes. Ice cream, anything sweet. I gave up the red, and eat very little sweets. White wine doesn't seem to bother me as much. I also rarely have hard liquor drinks. I like beer, but usually one or 2. I do definitely hang around the rabbit hole of trouble with the wine though. This morning I did wake up with both an empty wine glass and a water bottle!

combsikia --- How well I know -- just loved my wine. It would have been wonderful through this breast cancer ordeal. I really needed a stress reliever but turned to chocolate instead. There were a few times I almost lost my will power. Just didn't want to get back into the habit of my nightly wine. I am on the fence regarding the Al's so even if wine is a small risk I need to stay away. I also need to get some of this weight off. I really, really don't want to take the pills because they cause Osteoporosis which means more pills and possibly problems with future needed dental work. I see you also have LCIS -- me too. How did they find your LCIS in the non-cancer breast? Mine was found with the lumpectomy. I hope a MX is not in our future because of this darn LCIS. Such an unexpected find!

I have the good fortune of dense breasts. The surgeon is the one who wanted to check out my right side, after left side was confirmed. The day I arrived for a biopsy of my right, the Dr. who was going to do the procedure read my imagining (mammo and MRI) and she felt it may be LCIS and then I was blindsided by being told there was yet another spot they would like to check. I had 2 biopsy's on the right that day. One in the mammo machine, and the other MRI guided. Both came back benign (fibroadenoma), however BS asked to take some tissue out at my surgery to be triple sure, so I had a surgical excision too. It came back LCIS and sclerosing adenosis. That breast is quite behaved now. I trust the AI is helping that breast from doing something stupid! I try not to worry too much, but if the beast wants to show back up someday it will most likely set up in one of my breasts, and at that point, yes--- both will be coming off. I was given the option for BMX, but I was awfully scared of having major surgery and I wasn't quite ready to part with them. I'm much better informed now.