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As disappointing as it is, it seems most signs point to Dragonlance as the next setting. (EDIT 7/23: Not so much now!)

- Dragonlance material appears in printed books, including Cyan Bloodbane in the Draconomicon
- Raistlin shows up in the character generator.
- Numerous Draconians in the next minis set.
- Minotaurs in the next PHB.
- Weis and Hickman to appear at GenCon...where the next setting is to be announced.
- WotC puts out a Dragonlance essay writing contest were the ultimate prize is a trip to where they are announcing the next setting!
- Bill Slavicsec states: "From the origin of the setting ... it's a great year to be a Dragonlance fan!"

Why would the "origin of the setting" mean that the current year is a great year to be a Dragonlance fan?

On the other side, for Dark Sun we have:

- A Dark Sun article appear in the first online issue of Dragon
- April Fool's article contains the word "defiler"
- PHB3 to feature psionics
- A goliath mini has an obsidian sword (i have a hard time believing people take this as a genuine hint, but it gets mentioned a lot anyway)
- Eberron Player's Guide mentions a place where thri-kreen and half-giants live.- Dark Sun apparently has an editor for its novel line. New DS novels?!- Eberron Campaign Guide mentions the templar as a player class!

EDIT: I've been going back and forth the last few months but for the most part i've seen a lot of DL stuff all over the place. These last bits of info that an editor was brought in for Dark Sun novels and templars being in PHB3 are pretty strong evidence for DS to come out though. We can only hope it turns out to be DS!

I've seen poeple giving evidence of both. I'm just gonna point and laugh if it isn't either of them.

Sorry WOTC, you lost me with Essentials. So where I used to buy every book that came out, now I will be very choosy about what I buy. Can we just get back to real 4e?
Check out the 4e Conversion Wiki.
1. Wizards fight dirty. They hit their enemies in the NADs. -- Dragon9
2. A barbarian hits people with his axe. A warlord hits people with his barbarian.
3. Boo-freakin'-hoo, ya light-slingin' finger-wigglers. -- MrCelcius in response to the Cleric's Healer's Lore nerf

Dragonlance is nice, I played it a couple of times and enjoyed it. I even bought the v3.5 campaign setting book.

Dark Sun didn't impress me too much, but I did only play it once. I do like the darkness of that setting, and I think we need a primitive setting (one where they don't wear metal armor and use metal weapons).

My personal favorite is the Ravenloft setting though. I know it's unlikely to come back as a full campaign setting; being more likely to appear as DDI articles about the various domains of dread in the Shadowfell.

No matter what it is in 2010, it should be worth at least taking a look at.

There are a great many problems that can be circumvented by players and DMs having a mature discussion about what the game is going to be like before they ever sit down together to play.

The answer really does lie in more options, not in confining and segregating certain options.

You really shouldn't speak for others. You can't hear what someone else is saying when you try to put your words in their mouth.

What's the 'hook' of Dragonlance anyway? The one that makes it feel different than the other Fantasy settings??

I would imagine that depends on the time you're playing in. Playing in a world that thinks the gods have abandoned them is certainly intruiging. As I said though, my preference lies with the dark stuff.

There are a great many problems that can be circumvented by players and DMs having a mature discussion about what the game is going to be like before they ever sit down together to play.

The answer really does lie in more options, not in confining and segregating certain options.

You really shouldn't speak for others. You can't hear what someone else is saying when you try to put your words in their mouth.

I would imagine that depends on the time you're playing in. Playing in a world that thinks the gods have abandoned them is certainly intruiging. As I said though, my preference lies with the dark stuff.

So...it doesn't have a real hook then? Why not just merge Greyhawk, Dragonlance and every other 'generic' fantasy setting that don't have enough to distinguish themselves from the basic Points of Light concept into a NEW and BETTER setting??

58292718 wrote:

I love Horseshoecrabfolk.
What I love most about them is that they seem to be the one thing that we all can agree on.

So...it doesn't have a real hook then? Why not just merge Greyhawk, Dragonlance and every other 'generic' fantasy setting that don't have enough to distinguish themselves from the basic Points of Light concept into a NEW and BETTER setting??

As disappointing as it is, it seems most signs point to Dragonlance as the next setting.

- Raistlin shows up in the character generator.
- Aurak Draconians in the next minis set.
- Minotaurs in the next PHB.
- Weis and Hickman at GenCon
- Bill Slavicsec states: "From the origin of the setting ... it's a great year to be a Dragonlance fan!"

Why would the "origin of the setting" mean that the current year is a great year to be a Dragonlance fan?

On the other side, for Dark Sun we have:

- April Fool's article contains the word "defiler"
- PHB3 to feature psionics
- A goliath has an obsidian sword (i have a hard time believing people take this as a genuine hint, but it gets mentioned a lot anyway)

So it seems that the evidence in favor of Dragonlance seems to outweigh the Dark Sun hints at this point. Is there anything im missing?

The Dragonlance hints aren't as much hints as the fervent hope for them to be.

- Raistlin is the Drizzt of DL - he's in because he's popular, not necessarily as hint to DL in 2010.

- Auraks (and Draconians by extension) could just as easily be included in the next Draconomicon as DL (seems to be a semi-popular theory at ENworld)

- Minotaurs aren't exclusive to DL; I mean WoW =-whiners can just as easily yell "Tauren!" as it being a sign of DL, or you can say Warhammer, or or or - ie Minotaurs aren't the sole province of DL

- Weis and Hickman are there for the anniversary seminar for DL - anniversary does not definitively equal next setting

- Slavicsec could mean anything - hell, there could be a Dragonlance toyline or video game coming! (ok, not likely ...) But it does not constitute a declaration of DL being the next setting

As for other hints, a WotC developer on ENworld said the next setting had an "a" in the name, which is pretty much every DnD setting other than Eberron and Birthright, and also said "$". Which could mean guaranteed money, ie a setting they expect for sales to be big. Or (the theory I prefer ) - it could be translated as Dollar Sign - Dark Sun. ;)

The TL;DR version: All hints are circumstantial. Nothing is definite, no matter how much some die-hards want to believe.

The Dragonlance hints aren't as much hints as the fervent hope for them to be.

Fervent hope? Harldy. I would like pretty much any setting other than Dragonlance or Greyhawk but i have to admit that there are far more numerous and generally stronger hints towards DL than any other setting at this point.

So...it doesn't have a real hook then? Why not just merge Greyhawk, Dragonlance and every other 'generic' fantasy setting that don't have enough to distinguish themselves from the basic Points of Light concept into a NEW and BETTER setting??

For the same reason we don't squish Lord of the Rings in with it. LotR is also a 'generic' fantasy environment.

There are a great many problems that can be circumvented by players and DMs having a mature discussion about what the game is going to be like before they ever sit down together to play.

The answer really does lie in more options, not in confining and segregating certain options.

You really shouldn't speak for others. You can't hear what someone else is saying when you try to put your words in their mouth.

Fervent hope? Harldy. I would like pretty much any setting other than Dragonlance or Greyhawk but i have to admit that there are far more numerous and generally stronger hints towards DL than any other setting at this point.

I wasn't talking about you when I said fervent hope. ;)

Cyan Bloodbane was in Draconomicon, so I'm going to have to say yes.

And Strahd is in Open Graves. Obviously Ravenloft is the next setting! :P

All I want is SOMETHING NEW! Something I could call 'MY' favorite official setting without all the baggage that comes with it. Is that so much to ask for?!

No, it isn't too much to ask. I'd like to see some fresh new stuff too; and I can understand your frustration. I'd love to see some swashbuckling/renaissance era stuff that departs from heavy armor, but I'm not gonna decry generic fantasy settings that people have enjoyed for years. There are many people that have developed sentimental attachments to the campaign setting they're used to. I know I have such an attachment to Ravenloft.

The truth is that WotC is gonna put out old settings that people are attached to, that they know comes with a built-in fan-base over an unknown setting that may not fly terribly well or may be a raving success.

There are a great many problems that can be circumvented by players and DMs having a mature discussion about what the game is going to be like before they ever sit down together to play.

The answer really does lie in more options, not in confining and segregating certain options.

You really shouldn't speak for others. You can't hear what someone else is saying when you try to put your words in their mouth.

Personally, I'm hoping that when we get DL, whether 2010 or later, Wizards gives us a reboot. Take it back to the beginning of the War of the Lance, and redo the whole setting as though it had originally been created for 4th edition.

No, it isn't too much to ask. I'd like to see some fresh new stuff too; and I can understand your frustration. I'd love to see some swashbuckling/renaissance era stuff that departs from heavy armor, but I'm not gonna decry generic fantasy settings that people have enjoyed for years. There are many people that have developed sentimental attachments to the campaign setting they're used to. I know I have such an attachment to Ravenloft.

*cough*Birthright*cough*

Except Chris Perkins (I think it was him) implied they'd take the Birthright mechanics & apply it to 4e in general rather than update the setting.

Yeah I guess I shouldn't hate on the old settings just because I'm frustrated. Its just that this is a new edition and it would be nice if it had a new setting of its own!

Unless I'm wrong all the previous edition had a new setting introduced during their lifetimes no?

3.0e Really didn't get a new setting exclusive to it, though if you count Ghostwalk it did (Ghostwalk is a pseudo-setting though). But yes, as far as I know, all the previous whole editions (people have nitpicked edition titles in the past) have all had a new CS come out during them. Honestly, the fact that Wizards hasn't capitalized on the core setting more is really surprising to me, I would play in it in a heartbeat. A lot of the designers all have unique settings that they campaign in, why can't they develop those into a new setting.

Unfortunately, it all boils down to brand recognition. But I agree, something new would be very awesome.

What's the 'hook' of Dragonlance anyway? The one that makes it feel different than the other Fantasy settings??

The original hooks of Dragonlance from the War of the Lance era I can tell you about. The rubbish that's happened since, who knows or cares? I'm enthusiastically on board for Dragonlance if they're prepared to reboot back to the War of the Lance and otherwise fairly indifferent.

So: since you asked - and again, this was War of the Lance era, later stuff has knocked most of this on the head.

* The true gods are forgotten, leaving people worshipping false gods. Divine powers are rare and noteworthy.
* Dragons have not been seen for a very long time and up until recently were believed mythical.
* Evil (chromatic) dragons are actively struggling against metallic (good) dragons. (1st Edition Dragonlance was the setting that made metallic dragons a big thing and a relevant part of the campaign world.)
* About halfway through the War of the Lance dragons become a big and active part of the war effort; characters of all levels have meaningful opportunities to talk with, fight, befriend, and even ride dragons. Dragons are as neurotic and mortal as player characters rather than being giant dungeon-rulers.
* Dragonlance introduced the concept of tinker gnomes and they still play a major part in the setting.
* Dragonlance introduced gully dwarves (childish, stupid, and largely humourous dwarf-kin) and kender (hyperactive kleptomaniac halflings).
* Dragonlance has a rich history largely forgotten by the current age, giving players many opportunities to interact with the past while simultaneously giving them a good reason to not remember or care about giant codexes of campaign backstory.
* Dragonlance introduced draconians, who in my opinion were a vastly more interesting grunt-level enemy than the orcs and goblins that infest many D&D campaign worlds.
* Precious metals are rare; civilisation is uncommon and scattered, and large cities are notable for their rarity and are often the subject of legend very far away.
* Ansalon is a relatively small continent; travelling across it is just hard enough to make an interesting story and just easy enough to be practical without resorting to teleportation magic and other DM-ex-machina.
* The various orders of Solamnic Knights (a dragon-riding chivalric order) are well-realised and a favourite of many fans, as are the alignment-based schools of sorcery.
* The original Chronicles novels were a well-written and memorable fantasy trilogy with great characters and there's a huge attraction to just playing in the world they were set in.
* The original (1st Edition) D-series modules that parallelled the Chronicles were largely well-designed modules with some great set-piece adventures and presented a coherent well-designed campaign that could last players for years of play.
* Dragonlance has been the recipient of some of the best artwork that TSR/Wizards ever commissioned (enough that it got its own coffee table art book) and the very evocative images from that art can get you excited to play it all by themselves.

Plus some other stuff that I'm probably forgetting right now. That's what excites me about the War of the Lance era as a setting and it's why I wish they'd come back to it.

A lot of the designers all have unique settings that they campaign in, why can't they develop those into a new setting.

Unfortunately, it all boils down to brand recognition. But I agree, something new would be very awesome.

We all have good campaign setting ideas, whether we're designers or not. I personally wouldn't subit mine because I write for it and I don't know what the GSL says about retaining intellectual property. Plus it would probably help the campaign along if my storeis were widely read.

There are a great many problems that can be circumvented by players and DMs having a mature discussion about what the game is going to be like before they ever sit down together to play.

The answer really does lie in more options, not in confining and segregating certain options.

You really shouldn't speak for others. You can't hear what someone else is saying when you try to put your words in their mouth.

We all have good campaign setting ideas, whether we're designers or not. I personally wouldn't subit mine because I write for it and I don't know what the GSL says about retaining intellectual property. Plus it would probably help the campaign along if my storeis were widely read.

The point I was making was the fact that the designers are sitting on gold mines in respect to their current campaigns. Unlike building a new setting totally from scratch, they could start with one of those settings. I still think refining the core setting would be the best thing WotC can do, the legwork is done, we already have bits and pieces of a history and regions thought out, just go further and make a whole setting out of it.

I would imagine that depends on the time you're playing in. Playing in a world that thinks the gods have abandoned them is certainly intruiging. As I said though, my preference lies with the dark stuff.

In Eberron we don't know if the gods even exist.

So...it doesn't have a real hook then? Why not just merge Greyhawk, Dragonlance and every other 'generic' fantasy setting that don't have enough to distinguish themselves from the basic Points of Light concept into a NEW and BETTER setting??

Why not just ignore all of those settings and go with new stuff considering we already have the traditional fantasy setting in the Forgotten Realms.

That is true enough. I still don't get why that is a bad thing though.

Because we're limited to 1 campaign setting per year. Some of us would rather they explore new areas and ideas in their campaigns rather then continuously pumping out the same old setting with a brand new name.

When WotC bought the rights to Eberron, it was through a contest in which the contestants entered original Campaigns.
Eberon won and became what it is today.
If I remember correctly, WotC also bought the rights to the 3 runners up!
These WILL be published eventually, (Why pay for it, if your not going to use it?)
It's not going to be 2010, they already stated somewhere that the next Campaign World is a known one, but I'm pretty sure the 2011 one will be brand new and shiny!!