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The only reason so few kins have completed flight is that there are very few kins still raiding. It really isn't that hard.

While I agree with you in theory, I believe you have the cause and effect reversed. I don't think Flight hasn't been completed by many kins because few kins are still raiding, I think it's actually the fact that Flight was delayed at launch, then quickly taken down after reopening, then was simply unbeatable then nerfed but "buffed" with a rediculous amount of lag making it nearly unbeatable, that kins aren't raiding (amoung a laundry list of other reasons, but since raiding is what raiders do, given Flight's history, I believe it played a big factor in it, or at least the straw that broke the camel's back sorta thing).

Now again, I agree with you that the mobs, strat and mechanics make this raid easily farmable, especially after the nerf. Without the lag, I wouldn't doubt that we would have 20-30 or more kins not only downing T2C Flight, but farming it (or able to, if loot tables were... eh n/m). But given the horrendous(sp?) amount of lag, it not only makes it nearly unplayable, but it doesn't make it very fun to even attempt. As Cirone said, even though after completing it for the first time is very rewarding, it is still watered down by the fact that we didn't spend all this time trying to come up with a strat to effectively deal with the mechanics of the current end-game raid, but simply hoping for LUCK that it will only lag for 2-3 seconds, every single spawn, vs. lagging for 4-5+ seconds...

At 75 with Tower of Orthanc raid there was effectively 5 raids** to be done but with Rohan there was only 2 raids. By time Flights came back up I'd wager 30% of the remaining t2c raiders on Vilya have already left. The raiders who have stuck around haven't been enthused to play with the Flights lag. I've seen many regular t1 raiders boycott flights instance.

Why you are still care about it? Off peak got kill about 70-75 mobs pre nerf version, after nerf we left cuz dont have motivate and by other reason. I'm pretty sure a real raiding kin's dont care about posting/talk about this trash raid cluster. kthxbai

While I agree with you in theory, I believe you have the cause and effect reversed. I don't think Flight hasn't been completed by many kins because few kins are still raiding, I think it's actually the fact that Flight was delayed at launch, then quickly taken down after reopening, then was simply unbeatable then nerfed but "buffed" with a rediculous amount of lag making it nearly unbeatable, that kins aren't raiding (amoung a laundry list of other reasons, but since raiding is what raiders do, given Flight's history, I believe it played a big factor in it, or at least the straw that broke the camel's back sorta thing).

Now again, I agree with you that the mobs, strat and mechanics make this raid easily farmable, especially after the nerf. Without the lag, I wouldn't doubt that we would have 20-30 or more kins not only downing T2C Flight, but farming it (or able to, if loot tables were... eh n/m). But given the horrendous(sp?) amount of lag, it not only makes it nearly unplayable, but it doesn't make it very fun to even attempt. As Cirone said, even though after completing it for the first time is very rewarding, it is still watered down by the fact that we didn't spend all this time trying to come up with a strat to effectively deal with the mechanics of the current end-game raid, but simply hoping for LUCK that it will only lag for 2-3 seconds, every single spawn, vs. lagging for 4-5+ seconds...

I'm sure the lag has an effect, but I don't think there are that many kins who've even attempted post-nerf flight. The vast majority of the players I know who played this game mostly for endgame PvE quit months ago (or log on very infrequently) due to complete and utter boredom. There's little motivation for them to come back for flight - complete it once and you're in the same situation, as this cluster has zero replay value.

There's little motivation for them to come back for flight - complete it once and you're in the same situation, as this cluster has zero replay value.

I agree. The only reason to complete this raid cluster is to be a completionist, which was pretty much our sole motivation to peel ourselves away from other interests. For a raid to have replay value, it either has to be really fun and/or good loot. As it currently stands, this raid fails on both counts.

LMt2c mechanics

Hello, i have 1 question concerning the mechanics. When you kill 1 of the remaining 3 adds from a''offiacial wave'' you'll get an extra wave right ? Well on the videos i saw that was indeed the case. but what i dont get is this, after the 1st extra wave ( and also the other extra waves) i see the 2nd offiacial wave coming in at 1:45. i thought these official waves only came on 2/4/6/8 minutes !? how is it possible that they are coming sooner ?

If u kill one of the remaining 3 adds from "extra waves" u get an additional wave immediately
So u are able to decide when extra waves are spawning.
If u dont kill one of those last 3 adds from extra waves u get a new wave 2 min after the spawn of the current wave.
This mechanic was used by us

2nd methode
U set time based waves (with the first wave)
U kill the first add of the last 3 adds at 1:00 min (wave spawns)
U kill the second add of the last 3 adds from wave 1 at 2:00 min
The third add has to stay alive

After that, every minute is automatically spawning a new wave without doing anything (so u set the timers with the first wave)
And! 2min after every spawn of the new waves u could kill the last 3 adds of those waves without instant spawning new

Why you are still care about it? Off peak got kill about 70-75 mobs pre nerf version, after nerf we left cuz dont have motivate and by other reason. I'm pretty sure a real raiding kin's dont care about posting/talk about this trash raid cluster. kthxbai

Precisely the same as my kin. We came close I have a video 7.5 min long at 74 mobs down. We got to the point were we knew it was "possible" but who cares. It was boring, repetitive, laggy and with news of the nerf we really couldn't have cared less. I made massive spreadsheets and spent dozens of hours talking with officers regarding strategies to this. We came up with some crazy outside the box strats. I had more fun planning than playing.

Why you are still care about it? Off peak got kill about 70-75 mobs pre nerf version, after nerf we left cuz dont have motivate and by other reason. I'm pretty sure a real raiding kin's dont care about posting/talk about this trash raid cluster. kthxbai

Be honest: You think u deserved being one of the first to beat CM, for all you effort. Unfortunately ur kin stopped raiding and now ur miffed saying: "Oh no now all the noob kins are posting their success and sharing their strats, they can't be "real raiders" because a "real raider" would stop posting/talking about this thrash raid immediately after a nerf. Let's tell 'em that being proud of beating a nerfed CM makes them not real raiders."

It still is a challenge, not far away from ToO CMs (yes, I did complete them all on level) and one can be proud of beating it, admit it or not. Most people still don't understand the different strats for Flight CM. Posting videos and "talking" about it is helpful for them.
And finally, if the nerfed CM is not challenging enough for your kin why don't you try to beat the "original CM" instead of lowering others peoples accomplishments. Maybe the red "number-of-adds-killed"-bar wasn't updated for a reason.

Overall, people don't like this raid (FtLM) because you just kill "regular" mobs ; there is no boss and so some see it like a hard skrimish-like encounter instead of a raid.
In terms of strategy it actually is not as easy as some people try to make it look like, there are lots of mechanisms to be understood.

Regarding beating the "pre-nerf" challenge (100mobs), we wanted to try but gave up : the freezes on the 2 (out of seven !) waves that have 4 summoners that came with the same update that nerfed it make it impossible. And it does not always freezes only on those waves...
It's sad because we know that our AoE-heavy strategy would have worked for it.

Flight was the worst of the 3. And not just the lag. How anyone thinks being able to tank mobs by standing behind them and they never turn around to attack you is realistic is hard to believe. To me, that felt more like a exploit than a strat.

WE GOT THIS! from Nimrodel banged our heads against the wall to the final day and it was not until overtime that we completed the Flight challenge. Looks like we will be the last group to complete this on-level, it's been one hell of a journey and congrats to everyone that accomplished the challenge!