I realize Big Love is “entertainment” and not real. After watching tonight’s episode, I also realize that HBO and the Big Love crew have no hesitation in casting others’ pearls before swine. A few points of clarification are in order from tonight’s episode.

1. Barb wanting Temple endowments? It’s singular not plural. One could not possibly take out their own endowment on someone else’s recommend, even assuming someone would agree to lend out the recommend. Anyone who has a Temple recommend already has been endowed–you can’t do it twice.

2. We weren’t promising, just a few years ago, to disembowel people for “monkeying around” with the Temple ceremonies. This is pure hype not reality.

3. An inactive member not paying tithing, not believing in Church, living a polygamous relationship would have no desire or inclination to go through the Temple. They don’t believe the mainstream LDS (Mormon) Church has authority or the saving ordinances. The entire story line on Barb wanting to attend the Temple Ceremony is utter nonsense.

It is unclear just how she got into the Temple–since both her “mother” and “sister” were there with her, meaning she couldn’t possibly have used either of their recommends to gain entrance. By Barb’s own admission–at that ridiculous portrayal of the ex-communication court, she believes the Church and its leaders are in grave error on polygamy.

4. The Endowment and Temple ceremony and celestial room depictions were in extremely poor taste. They serve absolutely no purpose in the “Big Love” story. Particularly since Big Love is not supposed to be about depicting the LDS Church, but a polygamous sub-culture.

5. There is no “Woodruff” letter as depicted in the Big Love story line. More hype–little to no truth or fact. I’m no Church history buff, and so I’d love to hear from Ardis or any others steeped in Church history on this point; but, from my limited knowledge, it does not exist. Pure Hollywood fantasy.

6. How could Barb live up to Temple covenants if she had never had made them in the first place.?

These are only some of the inconsistencies or outright lies from tonight’s episode. The entire series has been full of others. I just found the portrayal of portions of the Temple Ceremony to be in extremely poor taste, particularly given the fact that HBO and the Big Love producers have gone out of their way time and time again to distance their fictional, and yes, entertaining series from the LDS Church. The reality is that over and over again throughout the entire series (from the beginning of every single episode) they have gone out of their way to incorporate the LDS Church, and their interpretation of its doctrines and practices into every story line. One has to wonder whether HBO and the Big Love folks are in truth trying to take weekly swipes at the Church under the guise of producing a program about offshoots of the LDS Church, its doctrines and beliefs.

Being a Big Love virgin, and proud of it, I don’t know the details of any letter they have invented for dramatic purposes. If this is a show that claims to be “inspired by real events,” they may have been “inspired” by, say, a supposed record of John Taylor’s supposed revelation authorizing a secret continuation of polygamy, or even a generic Mark Hofmann-type forgery.

But from what I have seen on other blogs discussing this trash, we’ll never know just what they’re referring to, doncha know, because the church will have buried the letter deep within its secret vaults. /cue ominous music and flickering lights/

Because, doncha know, that’s just typical of the way Mormons hide what we believe. It’s not like we would ever consider sending out tens of thousands of missionaries every year pleading to talk to people about our church, or as if we have a major website with tens of thousands of pages of published material, or as if we issued press releases about current events, or as if we had dozens of blogs prying into every conceivable bit of history and doctrine. No, we Mormons just don’t ever talk about our history and beliefs!

But they were accurate. In fact, with the exception of the wrong shade of green, that was probably the most accurate portion of the whole 53 minutes. (Oh, and the “get out” portion, not accurate, but the rest of it, yep).

And, I’d like to point out that those of us who are former members own our own Temple experiences. We are no longer bound by your temple oaths and can discuss them or not as we see fit. I resent that the Church and the members are acting in a passive-aggressive manner about this whole thing. The Church does not own my Temple experience.

Frankly, the Church and the members should have ignored it all. It only reminds me of what Scientology did 15 years ago when the story of Xenu slipped out. That provoked raids and lawsuits, but Xenu was the punchline of an extended joke on The Colbert Report not two weeks ago.

I’m pretty sure that the “green” had to do with the filters that they used to get the white to be so radiant. They probably should have taken that into account, considering that it looked an odd shade of teal.

“An inactive member not paying tithing, not believing in Church, living a polygamous relationship would have no desire or inclination to go through the Temple. They don’t believe the mainstream LDS (Mormon) Church has authority or the saving ordinances. The entire story line on Barb wanting to attend the Temple Ceremony is utter nonsense.”

That was my initial reaction as well.

But I think an argument could be made that Barb, not a conventional Polygamist, still had emotional and familial ties to mainstream Mormonism; and faced with her impending excommunication, (to say nothing of the instability created by her many family problems), longed for the stability, ritual, and peace offered by the temple.

It could also be viewed as a kind of ritual closure. I’ve known people who have left the church (either voluntarily or non-voluntarily), who went through a final endowment session (assuming they had an active recommend), or longed to go through a final endowment session, as a kind of ritual/farewell closure, a way of making peace with the temple/church/etc.

And Ardis, I think that’s exactly what the storyline has reference to–Albey is doing the Mark Hoffman thing with the supposed John Taylor revelation.

And Guy, I generally agree with you. While I do think that Barb wanting to go to the temple does comport with her conflicted feelings over polygamy (it seems like she did it out of devotion to Bill and not out of her own testimony) and wanting to go to the temple before she makes a major decision (a very Mormon thing to do), I don’t know that the portrayal was necessary to symbolize what she felt she was giving up. I was disappointed with the goofs (take out her endowment rather than do an endowment session–anyone who has followed the show knows that Bill and Barb were active LDS when they got married and were married in the temple). I will say that you’re parsing like a lawyer on your number 2, however.

“I was disappointed with the goofs (take out her endowment rather than do an endowment session–anyone who has followed the show knows that Bill and Barb were active LDS when they got married and were married in the temple”

thanks for typing that for me. i’ve heard a few of the nacle folks talking about this and i think they just got the wording wrong (as i’ve heard so many times on the blogs)

somewhere in the show, barb says she misses the symbolism? or ceremony of the temple (something like that) and that’s when i knew that she just didn’t’ have a current rec and wanted to do an endowment before the axe fell. no big deal.

see, it’s drama, so they got to dramatize the real thing cos the real thing aint so exciting. so, yah, it was weird to see that on a tv show but hey-it’s tv.

Yeah, I tend to agree on the letter. I’ve never really heard of any such document as it has been portrayed on Big Love–but then, facts about the Church, its beliefs or doctrines have never been a stumbling block for Big Love’s writers.

Ardis #2

Points well taken. I guess we’ll know for sure when the Big Love writers open up the Fictional First Presidency Vault up there deep in the Wasatch Mountains and uncover that “Woodruff Letter.”
Former Member #3

The Church does not own my Temple experience.

I don’t recall the Church ever indicating otherwise; but, you ignore my point that the depiction serves no other purpose in the Big Love story line other than to take swipes at the LDS Church, a point which the Big Lovers over at HBO, fall over themselves trying to make at every LDS turn they take.

Nate #4

Yeah, I thought the color was a bit off myself.
Matt #5

Interesting interpretation. I just find it hard to reconcile her lifestyle and her belief the LDS (Mormon Church) and its leaders are in grave error on polygamy with her “desire” to take out her endowment the day before she’s excommunicated. Only in Hollywood.

Nate #6

I will say that you’re parsing like a lawyer on your number 2, however.

Well, the way it was portrayed in the show tonight was certainly not my take on it, having myself been endowed (on my own recommend) since the early 1970’s. I am aware of the implications of the reference–but have a different take than what the show portrayed and implied.

I’ve tried not to get too wrapped up in the whole Big Love/temple controversy. I think this is one of those situations where we have been given a good opportunity to share our beliefs and dispel rumors and myths about temple worship.

As is usual with these things I suspect that the ultimate effect will be to make the temple look less weird. I suspect there may be a bit of backlash later on against how Mormons are treated in the media (after this and the way we were treated during the FLDS thing and the Romney bit). A few non-Mormon commentators mentioned how it didn’t seem much weirder than Catholicism.

I kind of miss the pre-1990 ceremonies. But given how difficult our culture is with symbolism and ritual I understood why it was changed. But go read some Eliadi on ancient near eastern ritual and you’ll find it quite at home.

Not accuracy or facts–just the drama. 🙂
I didn’t take your comment as snarky.
Brian #13

I’ve tried not to get too wrapped up in the whole Big Love/temple controversy.

I think this is good advice, and I think it’s a not so subtle point the Church’s official response makes. But, some of the inconsistencies were pretty brazen. The biggest I think is the idea that Big Love is not about the Church. I think it’s very much about the Church and always has been.

If I respond to this, I can only do so by ignoring your injunction of #17. Oh well, here goes anyway.

so what if it is?

Well, its disingenuous, since the whole premise of the show is not to depict the Church but this polygamous subculture. And, they go out of their way publicly to make that point. But, they can’t and don’t leave the Church out of their story line, ever.

and why do lds think the writers of BL are out to get them?

I don’t think they are out to get me–but their portrayal of the Church and LDS doctrine and belief is many times perpetuating unfair stereotypes or is a half truth, or an outright lie. I posted some things early on about Big Love but generally don’t comment or blog about it; but, tonight’s episode was just over the top.

i guess i don’t still don’t understand why it matters of all the details are right

Again its not so much the inaccuracies–which are legion in almost every episode–it’s the disingenuous way they go about it. If they want to take pot shots at the Church, then make the show about the Church. Don’t try and cloak it in a “fictitious” polygamous sub-culture.

I generally agree with your take on this, Guy. I’ve been watching the show for a while now and I understand the need to show some references to the mainstream LDS Church in a show with these plotlines, but it seems like every time they do, they not only get things seriously wrong on the facts, they portray faithful members and leaders in a negative way. This episode was the worst yet.

[…] of Big Love, and reading several excellent posts and comments about it at BCC, Mormon Mentality, Messenger & Advocate and Times & Seasons, I’m left wondering what, if anything will be the effect of this. My […]

That is how I read Barb’s desire to visit the Temple again and participate in ceremonies. She has always been deeply conflicted about leaving the LDS Church (sorry, not a Mormon so I may be using the wrong terms), and it made sense to me that she would have a profound desire to revisit the traditions and sacraments of her Church before being cast out.

While watching the show, I wondered if Barb’s mother’s comments about abandoning/revising some of the verbiage of the rituals of endowment was to dispel fear in viewers of ‘what they might have heard’ about such ceremonies. As the general viewing public is not Mormon, most would have little to no information about LDS, and what little they think they know is probably inaccurate.

“I don’t recall the Church ever indicating otherwise [that it owned the Temple and what happens within]; but, you ignore my point that the depiction serves no other purpose in the Big Love story line other than to take swipes at the LDS Church, a point which the Big Lovers over at HBO, fall over themselves trying to make at every LDS turn they take.”

You didn’t read last week’s statement from the Church? Basically, it was a big SHUT UP SHUT UP SHUT UP directed at anyone who might talk about the holy and sacred (which also happen to be secret) temple ceremony. The Church was asserting ownership of things it does not own–which are my memories and my experiences.

As for your point that the depiction serves no other purpose than to take swipes at the Church: maybe, but it was long overdue, and not in the sense you may be thinking. The Temple is at the absolute center of Mormon thinking. It’s held up as the ultimate goal for everyone, what we should all be striving for. I thought Big Love was weird in that way, because the independent polygamists I knew (granted not very many but more than most) when I lived in Utah were about as attached to the Temple as members of the LDS Church. They prayed towards the Salt Lake Temple!

So, basically, there should have been more obsessing on Big Love about the Temple a long time before this. One might consider why this was not the case before now. As another commenter has suggested, Barb was the one person on Big Love who had more of a connection than anyone else to the Church, and when she’s getting the left foot of fellowship, it would make sense that she’d obsess on the Temple.

When I was serving (a mission) near Manti, Utah I became aware of “The True and Living Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints”. The word from church members in the area was that many of the “TLC” people had faked the whole baptism – temple recommend process to secretly receive their endowment and then return to their old ways.

Its an asinine belief – that we are the apostate church but still have hold over the saving ordinances of the temple – but many of them believe(d) it – “I heard”.

This was also a reason given to me as to why every candidate for baptism who has been involved in polygamy has to be interviewed by a DL, MP and APOSTLE!. At the time I was serving, Elder Wirthlin was the one who interviewed all of them.*

So, it sounds like the Barb story is a little different than the one I am describing but it bears mentioning.

* As a side note – I knew more than one member of the church who had left polygamy (usually a woman who left the community with all her kids) and went through the long process of joining the mainstream LDS. They all said they had a special place in their heart for Elder Wirthlin.

Former Mormon: What I know is that your word means nothing to you. The Church doesn’t own your “temple experience,” it never claimed to and no one here has made that claim. So why do you keep claiming that it has or someone has made that claim? Why do you insist that the Church is trying to shut everyone up when it is merely attempting to educate about what what many of us still hold sacred? However, that you have breached covenants speaks for itself.

The church was making a point about what many of us consider holy and why it is inappropriate to profane what we hold holy. The fact that you no longer regard it has sacred doesn’t address that fact at all.

Former M asserts: “We are no longer bound by your temple oaths and can discuss them or not as we see fit.”

Yeah, no Danites are coming to get you. But your refusal to keep your promises rather speaks for itself now doesn’t it? You did make promises didn’t you?

Big Love is like so many war movies, sure it’s about a war, but they got everything else wrong.
It’s all about who does your research and HBO relied on excommunicated members with an axe to grind. They had no interest in getting it right and didn’t even look up the endowment ceremony on the net to make sure they were using the most current version.[you can find videos too]
I just ignore the lot of it, HBO doesn’t really have much I want to watch and most of the original shows are not suitable for a Christian household. I already have an uncle and great uncle that are excommunicated Mormons to learn about real polygamy from, why watch some crappy TV show?

While I cannot, of course, speak for Former Member, I can imagine certain circumstances that might make your characterization of her unfair. For example, if he/she left the Church due to doctrinal differences––that is, he/she no longer believes the truth claims of the Church––then it would be reasonable to feel that the Church had misrepresented itself to him/her during his/her conversion process. If one feels that is the case, then, again, it would be reasonable to feel that you are no longer bound to uphold your end of those covenants, including covenants of nondisclosure. Quite simply, if someone doesn’t believe that the church is true, then it is frankly bizarre to continue keeping church covenants. Now, I am not at all sure that this characterizes Former Member’s experience, but surely you can see that this possibility makes sense. We see similar situations within the LDS faith all the time: wouldn’t you find it odd for a new Mormon convert from Catholicism to continue going to a priest for confession at least once per year, because they were bound to do so by their earlier Catholic baptism?

I believe it was in veiled reference to the 1886 Revelation to John Taylor, which states that the Lord shall never disband polygamy.

This revelation is a keystone to Mormon Fundamentalism. In fact, fundamentalists trace their authority to the night of that revelation, wherein Taylor conferred the priesthood authority that many fundamentalist leaders now claim today.

I was a very active mormon. Then I took an ‘advanced church history’ institute course where I learned this stuff. Pisses me off that the church tries to keep its members in ignorance about this crap.

Kevin–“The church tries to keep its members in ignorance?” What are you talking about? The Internet and libraries all over the place are full of Church history, polygamy, and every other aspect of Church History. Get a clue . . .