T Rose I just read the post you put up a couple of days ago asking if the free fighting in the BJJ curriculum is what makes it so formidable. I think this is exactly why the practioners of this art are so far ahead. Many martial art schools leave out free fighting completely to train in bunkai and kata. Lets face it if you don't practice something you'll lack those skills. I don't mean to say that the live wrestling done during practice is the same as defending your life, but surely 3 or 4 10 minute rounds a night is going to give you a better feel for the skills you have learned. Does BJJ have a monopoly on this approach, NO WAY. Go check out a Jim Pedro judo class, or a Lion's Den training session and you will see skills drilled and then reinforced with some level of controlled fighting. Unfortunately this way of training will take time away from other parts of the usual curriculum and chase off some students because it's diffucult. Hey T don't forget the BBQ .

I've trained in BJJ with Joe, Nihon JJ with mike and have been training judo for the past 9 months and think all three or any one just fit with Uechi perfectly. Theres no "ippon" for a perfect throw on the street which is probably why Gracie centers on newaza. But I've had the breath knocked out of me with throws so I can't discount them completely. f.

Mike, I guess I can't argue with that. The "flavor" of BJJ/Judo tends to be a little different than the "flavor" of the older JJ styles, at least in my experience. But they all eventually come from the same place.

Re: The Real WorldIn the real world, concrete is hard, uneven, and generally damn uncomfortable to be on. Bad guys frequently use weapons, have friends, and never, ever, fight fair. The last place I want to be in a confrontation is on the ground.

IMHO (note: Pet theory, borrowed from Quincy Rice of the Underground): The reason BJJ focuses so much on ne-waza is because the exponents of BJJ refined their skills in Vale Tudo matches: One on One fights, frequently with very skilled strikers. As a result, the focus of the art became dragging the striker down (it's harder to punch from your back), and dealing with him through ne-waza from there. The throwing aspect was de-emphasized because it's much harder to get a good throw in when someone is elbowing you in the head.

There may be no "ippon" on the street, but guess what? There's no tapping out either. Getting slammed headfirst into the pavement is unlikely to improve your day.

There's a reason Judo players don't practice on concrete much...they'd all be working out from the hospital.

In short...don't discount throws at all...they are some of the most powerful tools in your arsenal.

Personally, the thing that I believe makes my BJJ effective and gives me confidence as a teacher of students and a martial artist, is my Uechi training.

Great statement!

I would love to see more Uechi striking in groundfighting. Especially elbow and knee strikes.

As soon as you can clear some space, it becomes necessary to practice some striking while on the ground. The only problem I see is practicing these moves safely. Kyosho techniques work better, in my opinion, while on the ground. Sometimes the opportunity to hit a vital target is increased while groundfighting.

Has anyone practiced a Uechi-ryu kata while lying down on the floor? I wonder what it would look like?

I am a 2nd Dan in Kodokan Judo. Most of what constitutes BJJ is either learned or developed after ascension to the 1st Dan rank. Up to and including 1st Dan is, as another poster pointed out, primarily concered with throws which is unfortunately, where 98% of people quit. The thing that makes BJJ so effective is that it is alomost immediately applicable once you learn it. I have taken people that have practically no skill whatsoever and shown them the positions of the gaurd and they have been able to effectively counter and defend themselves against people who have many years more experience. In fact, one of the people that I have trained got in a wrestling match with his Kung Fu Sifu who had ten years experience on him. The sifu ended up tapping out in an ankle lock. But, the techniques being as easy as they are are also easy to defend against and thwart. Thats why you see so many matches going past 30 minutes with no clear victory in sight. But these moves can be a death blow to even an experienced martial artist who has no familiarity with them.

Ever try to take a kata and do it on the floor, or do it on your knees? Instead of punching or hitting, interpret the blows as the push-pull grabbing or as presses or chokes. It is not a substitute for live practice, but it can help you move around a little better.

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