Friday, February 27, 2009

Past 4.5 open threads can be found in the index on our blogroll rightside column. If you know of other fun sites or forums that are having lively non-spoilery episode discussions, please feel free to post links here as well.

I had a feeling that song would be the one they'd play. Ron and Bear teased us with the musician convincing Kara to play, but by the time he hit the lower notes I knew it.

The more I see how things are going, the more I'm convinced that humanity has run its course must die for a new blended race to take over. It won't be pretty. It won't be easy. And it sure won't be short (3 eps aside...).

I vowed after seeing the Six Sense I wouldn't be snowed again. So, like most people it was obvious even before this aired that Starbuck was talking to a Head or invisible character. But the writers still played it like it should surprise us...for the whole episode?

The Hera arc "appears" to have come to an end. Just as well, she never added much to the story till tonight. Glad we got a few (familiar) notes out of her before the boom.

And Helo didn't notice anything different about his "wife"? Hmmm.

I don't need guns and space battles to keep my attention, but I do need more than these past two episodes.

Helo had all of 20 minutes with somebody who looked exactly like his wife, and his blood definitely wasn't flowing to his brain at the time. There was no glaring sign for those of you (here and elsewhere) who think he's back to being "dumb ol' puppy dog" Helo. The smell was easily explained, and she was properly amorous.

Also, I'm convinced the Hera arc is far from over. Barring spoilers to the contrary (and no, I don't want them), I'm sure that the hunt for Hera will play into the final act.

Oh my god. What a raging, furious emotional rollercoaster from love, to lust, to loathing and then finally guilt. That episode was superb. I thought last week's episode was easily the season's weakest, maybe the weakest in several seasons. But this episode tonight was beautiful; the piano overlay really drove each scene. This episode had that artistic flare that turns a soap opera episode into an emotional journey.

There wasn't a lot of plot movement, which some might not like, but artistically it was just incredible. That fucking Boomer - I love how totally turned on I was by her sex scene, but at the same time screaming "omfg, noo!"

Frankly, the teasers were outright misleading, I'm glad I didn't spend too much time obsessing over them. It would have set up unfulfilled expectations.

Having said all that, with three episodes left, I'm expecting an awful lot of closure in three short hours of TV. Lets get this ball rolling!

better much better! what a lovely,strange, roller coaster episode that was!

what i liked:starbuck!the details and nuances, empty the garbage cans, last tube of toothpastetyrol and boomer was beautiful and heartbreaking and yes she really meant it she didn't just use him to get hera.SEX!so the piano player was starbuck's daddy? he taught kara that song but how did he learn THAT song? did Anders teach it to him when he was just a little seven daniel?so sarbuck is a hybrid right? daniel was her daddy.tigh's dead baby had his eyes open...like anders?i need more space porn!so if Galactica's dead, will the final eps of the show be called Cylonstar Baseshiptica? frak just give me adama ordering "launch the raiders!", "deploy the fraking Centurions"

No Baltar cult, hooray!

what I didn't like:No Baltar, boooo!helo, boomer,sex,athena,watching,awkward.writer's room:"good news we figured out what to do with Helo!, bad news, we don't know what to do with Apollo :(roslin fainting a little too soap opera-ishwith only 3 episode to go should this show be creating new questions? shouldn't they answer some more shit already?why does cavil want hera, he never showed interest in her beforeBAD BOOMeRcan't think of anything else,great ep, that is all

OK I haven't watched the ep yet... about to start now. But wanted to mention this link about an upcoming ep of CSI that is written and directed by the same folks who did tonight's BSG ep...and has some other familiar names involved too. Sounds like fun!

So was I the only one who *didn't* realize that the piano player was really Head!Piano Player until the last minute? It was only when Tigh put his hand on Starbuck's shoulder that I realized it. And how exactly did her father know this song to teach it to her? Oh BSG, how can you do this to me with only 3 eps left? I seriously cannot fathom how the heck they're going to end this in those last three episodes.

I've been wondering for a while how they were going to bring the non-rebel cylons (Cavil et. al) back in. Based on pure speculation, not spoilers, it must be the Hera connection that will bring them back together. Oy. Is it next Friday yet?

Add me to the list of the blind - I didn't realize he wasn't really there until the very end either.

God(s), the Chief got *played* tonight. I really feel sorry for the guy - I wonder what'll happen when Helo and Athena realize he helped Boomer escape? You can't just hide the fact that there is another Eight in the brig - I'd say he's frakked.

Upon reflection, I share Chief's sentiments a bit. I was sold when she came back and brought Ellen. I figured she'd changed loyalties just like she changes loyalties everytime a prettier butterfly floats on by. He's got to feel so, so played.

I hope Helo beats the hell out of him.

And, as much as Roslyn's character drives me up the wall lately with her self pity, she totally called it re: Boomer.

Whoa. Boomer is bad to the bone! Douglas was so wonderful during the scene when he is experiencing projection for the first time...

So does this mean that Starbuck just talks to herself and yells at the piano every night at Joe's Bar, from like across the room? And everyone just...ignores her? And the bartender just keeps pouring 'em? Damn.

A very intense ep. Everytime the power blinked out, it was very menacing. Like some twisted reminder that the clock is ticking on the show itself...pretty soon, all the lights will go out. For good. ::moved::

Felgercarb Toothpaste...the last tube in the known universe...up for auction, natch. ;-)

I liked the Tyrol/Boomer stuff because this is how these characters would act! For a change no glaring OOC. I saw the Head!PianoGuy for what he was early on. Never liked the Dylan song thingy, so that part seemed lame again.

Quibbles: The ship is crawling with S7 cylons, why did none of them suss out Boomer? There's only one tube of toothpaste, but there's still plenty of hootch!

Was that Gaeta's voice on the intercom in the beginning scene?

At least it ended on a good cliffhanger so my interest is piqued for next week. And stuff blew up.

@Proggrrl, Yeah, loved the Felgercarb Toothpaste! Great homage to the O.G. Galactica. Along with Bear's use of the exploration theme, by Stu Philips as noted by commenter @Pete Fanning at the top of this thread. :)

Sadly for me, I figured Slick was a head character from the promo photos.

If indeed Daniel was Starbuck's father, as I assume, I like how it's being subtly stated, instead of outright declared. Vagueness often works better than outright answers. Leaves the viewer with stuff to chew on.

Also nice to see that Ellen was more back to the calmer Ellen we saw in No Exit.

Though you were probably just being facetious, I think as usual with the more esoteric episodes, the ones that deal with characters dealing with internal struggles, we have to take what we see them do with a grain of salt.

My guess is that she didn't say most of that dialogue, but that it was in her head. Thats sort of a given with lots of characters, but I think there might be lots of people that would actually accept that kind of insanity from Kara.

I think one of the strengths of this episode was how it was shown to us deliberately vaguely, yet not completely unbelievably. It was directed with a nice balance of "projecting inner struggles" and "really interacting with the world around her." My heart definitely jumped a few beats when I identified the song ;-)

I was fooled by the piano player and Boomer as well. *sighs* I was so hoping that Boomer had changed. It makes me mad that she used Chief that way. Granted it was *the* best way to do it. Still, if she really loved him, she wouldn't have used him; she'd have found some other way to get Hera.

I also liked having a calmer Ellen back this week. I'm wondering if Anders is ever going to wake up. The writers are leading us to believe that he is the key to the whole thing.

I liked the music in this episode. When the piece finally came together at the climax of the episode I just grinned myself silly. It just seemed appropriate.

The Kara thing still left me feeling empty though. I guess because I have always felt that she had some sort of cylon connection from the beginning.

I don't understand why everybody aboard the ship is so distressed that the ship is falling apart. It was only 3 seasons ago that she was being turned into a museum. Seems to be a logical progression that the ship could only sustain so much trauma. It's time for the ship to go the way of all good ships. Move 'em all aboard the faster and technology superior cylon ship. They are wasting time trying to save the battlestar and that only plays right into Cavil's hands.

As to the president fainting at the end. I don't think it was due to Hera's abduction. They've been hinting at this for some time. Remember, she hasn't been taking her chemo. The cancer has probably progressed. I think the exclamation of Hera might have been her last words. That will be answered next week for sure. I think the last 3 episodes we're going to see quite a few of our long time faves breathe their last. This series is not going to have a happy ending. This has all happened before and it will happen again ... Is there anything more ominous?

Daniel was an artist, and Daniel's art was making his own Cylon models. Starbuck was one (and Socrata Thrace is not her biological mother) and Baltar was the other. These are the two characters who "project" but are not official Cylons. There are *nor* many copies...

Starbuck and Baltar have two things in common. They are both artists-- in very different ways (taking on faith what we've heard about Baltar as scientist). And they have each spent the series, again in very different ways, trying to figure out who they really are. Starbuck's quest is out in the open for all of us to see, but the same impulse lies behind Baltar's "personality of the week" changes -- scientist-playboy, politician, Messiah, cynic.

Finally: Starbuck resurrected. And probably so did Baltar: the show has never explained how he survived a nuclear blast that seemed to be right down the street from him.

Plus, Cavil hated Daniel, and part of his evil-genius revenge might well have been making Daniel's creation Baltar complicit in the destruction of humanity.

@theoristI like your theory. I would say that if you're right and Baltar and Starbuck are somehow Daniel's creations, that Cavil et al are unaware of it. It seems like something Daniel would've done somewhere away from prying Cylon eyes. It kind of makes Starbuck and Baltar siblings right? Ewwww, didn't they just in the sack once though?

@ Theorist: Hmmm, it is also interesting to consider which "humans" have been known to possibly project, cylon-style, aside from Roslin's more dream-like visions: Baltar, and now Kara (am I forgetting anyone?). So it's an interesting, if creepy, theory.

I'm bracing myself for more than one of Adama's "old girls" to give up the ghost...the writers have taken great pains lately to link Roslin's and Galactica's decline. And don't forget that Roslin's life was extended by Hera's prenatal blood, kinda sorta like how a cylon substance bought the ship a little more time.

I was totally taken in by Boomer and the piano player as real, too. Didn't see either of those things coming. Gaaaa!

Good stuff. Don't know how I'm going to survive until March 20. And after March 20.

Saw through the piano player thing. Confused the hell out of my wife whom thought I was saying Daniel *Jackson* (of Stargate) was the piano player. Wasn't of course, but whom was that masked man? Wonderful actor.

And Boomer . . ugh. "What, you mean I can't tell I'm not screwing my own wife, but her twin sister? What is this, someone's Penthouse fantasy mixed in?"

Athenae at First Draft had a hysterical line: "HERA'S MAGIC DAYCARE! Finally my e-mails are answered. Granted, it's the Daycare of Kidnapping Prevention Fail because there should be a note in Hera's file that says MOM'S A KILLER ROBOT WHAT LOOKS LIKE FIFTEEN OTHER KILLER ROBOTS DON'T LET JUST ANY SHARON TAKE HER AWAY, but still, a daycare!"

@idiosynch: What is this First Draft? I need to go there for a laugh! :-D (And seriously...day care for a robot mommy, who now has a gazillion other identical robots on the same ship? Trouble waiting to happen...)

After this ep. I am not sure if I want to watch the show anymore...not that i didn`t like it...I am just totally..WTF? Tyrol? Hey, I pity him a bit, especially after he finds out about Hera but....this B.... needs to go and the Chief should be the one to give her the final goodbye.

The dying leader...(if Roslin,is that leader,which I still doubt somehow)...she was right on that one Galen!

On more less aggravated note:

It quite surprised me that the Cylons wanted to trial Boomer, but then again it absolutely made sense. For some reason, the cylons are still the ones who stay true to their rules...I mean how many of the mutineers have actually been executed or on trial? Ok,we did not see it(budget or waste of time)and you can clearly see the military had more losses, I think I noticed that Racetrack was missing, in the Readyroom? But, Adama, I think Adama is just bloody tired and who would not be after all this? I would be surprised and have A LOT of respect, if someone could handle all this in the real world!

Starbuck:

I actually thought it was quite clear that the piano player was a "mindfrak",nobody, I`m talking about the barman, seem to have noticed the guy, except for Kara. The barman calls the last round but does not say anything, when the pianoman keeps on playing????

And Hera...EVERYTHING that Kid says or draws...is getting my attention. And the fact that Anders somehow reacts, when the Cylon kids are come to play...fishy or maybe a good distraction by the writers.

Speaking of Anders:is it just me or was Anders acting like a Hybrid, before he fell into his coma?

Starbuck/Hera...they both, for now, seem to be the roadmaps or the keys to both sides destinies.

I have the feeling that Starbuck was somehow the link for humanity/cylons to find earth but Hera..she seems to be the link to the "One true god", because this act is so woven, that SOMEBODY must call the shots in this. Plus we still do not know, what they did with Kara`s eggs on Caprica!

The Helo-Boomer=Athena scene...Did I mention that B....gotta go!? Oh boy, this was so bittersweet. It really reminds me of the Scene between Helo and Roslin: Remember, you are not married to the whole production line. But I agree with some of the comments, if you got 20 min to spent with your Wife/Husband before she leaves for 6 days, I would not pay such close attention either. Plus, the cylons have access to certain memories of their deceased counterparts/twins, so for her it must have been easy to "behave" like Athena. But the decent woman in me just thinks: Smack that idiot of a Husband, he bloody deserved it,even if he believed it was you , he was sleeping with! LOL

Which leads me back to Tyrol....Boy, I hope for you, Helo and Sharon won`t find out...but it is BSG, they WILL find out in the end....I hate that this show is going to end in less than a month....TV will never be the same for me. I have not been that invested into a show since "Buffy". OK, you can not compare it, but BSG is very hard to replace(silent tears and screams, with sad Athena-style smile):0(

Alright, did anyone notice the title of the "Dreilide Thrace" tape that Helo gives to Starbuck? It is "Live at the [something] OPERA HOUSE"!!!!!! Can anyone decipher the name of the Opera House? You can see a still of it at the Bear McCreery blog on the episode, part 2.

Daniel was a cylon AND a vulcan, before cavil shut him down he made a vulcan mind meld with a little girl named kara thrace, explains everything,hooray!

hey, how come when boomer's tiny raptor jumps it tears apart the side of the galactica but in "a disquiet follows adama...i mean, my soul" when the massive fuel ship jumps it doesn't destroy the smaller raptor and vipers near it?

When a familiar actor appears in a crime show like CSI or Law and Order, you know that he's probably the killer, despite his character being on the periphery at the beginning of the show. Similarly, a handsome, charismatic musician whom no one knew being introduced near the end of the final season? Please....he couldn't possibly be real.

All that said, I didn't know who he was until the end. This uncertainty also arose from being buffeted by the surprises that have been sprung on us throughout the series. Yes, he could be Starbuck's father, he could be Daniel, he could be an angel or prophet (like the biblical Daniel) sent by a mysterious Puppetmaster alluded to in conversation, or maybe even Starbuck talking to herself from a past life. I've quit spending (too much) energy on wondering and am going along for the ride.

Besides the Felgercarb toothpaste, did anyone catch the musical reference to the opening symphonic passage of the first original BSG episode from the 70s, in the scene where Kara is first sitting next to Slick and he's trying to conceive the second movement of his composition? Slick plays the notes to this passage and Kara points out that he's riffing off another composer's material, and Slick respond that the composer is his "touchstone", where he goes to to look for inspiration when he's dry. Here's that Original episode: http://www.nbc.com/Vintage_Shows/Battlestar_Galactica/video/episodes/#vid=213504

remember in the episode Exodus part 2 when they get in the raptors on the doomed pegasus and jump away before it smacks into the basestar?those raptors were pretty close to the pegasus too and nothing happened...(thanks to gifa from battlestar blog live journal for reminding me of this)

@suicide...But Boomer only crashed because she clipped the raptor's wing while exiting the flight pod right? It caused her to veer right into Galactica as she jumped. It's a different situation than that scene you're talking about I think.

But I'm willing to bet some part of that raptor completed the jump while the rest crashed. Hera was in a metal box anyway so might have survived.

I had the impression that the raptor did jump away and the damage to the Galactica was from being to close to the mitichlorian field that we just heard of. Sure didn't keep Galactica from jumping in and out at treetop level on New Caprica.

About the Daniel/Daddy theory...I love this idea too, and it certainly seems like the story is leading up to it. But I think caution is warranted.

Since the idea of a 7th/Daniel was an elegant but recent retcon to correct an old cylon numbering goof, it can't have been the writers' plan for Starbuck all along. And if she is in effect a Cylon-Human hybrid, what of all we've hard about Hera being the first such individual? It would seem to diminish Hera's cosmic significance in this regard. And finding out Starbuck's a half-cylon still wouldn't explain her and her Viper's re-creation.

This doesn't mean the writers haven't found a way to make Daniel Starbuck's dad that works with everything else, and I rather hope they have. But isn't it possible that her father was human and simply learned that "Watchtower" tune from someone...Anders? Daniel? Someone else connected to Anders? Clearly there's a Cylon connection to Starbuck but is it necessarily hereditary?

4 of the 5 are arguing about the fate of Sharon in the bar. Ellen makes a statement (I can't remember it exactly) that, "We need to let justice take its course . . . Aw Hell, let me just look at it again on the DVR. Please hold.

OK. Ellen says, "We can't set ourselves up as gods". This line has stuck with me, for some reason. What would happen if they *did* set themselves up as gods? The cylons already revere the Final Five. It would be easy. The Five are their creators, after all.

History would read a lot like that of Kobol, wouldn't it? In time, there would be stories about how the cylons lived with their makers. Stories that might sound like what we've heard about Kobol. To quickly come to my point: The statement seems to in with the motif of Eternal Recurrence (i.e., all of this has happened before and will happen again).

Were there gods on Kobol, or were they metaphors, as Roslin once said? What if there were gods? Could they have been makers, much like the Final Five? Cylons themselves? Human beings?

Does Hera represent the beginning of a cycle? Two peoples meld - cylons and humans. Later, that melded group creates cylons. Those cylons rebel. They later reunite. Again and again.

I hope that many questions about the BSG mythos are finally answered in these last episodes. It is an aspect of the show that that is among the most compelling to me.

I suspect the end of this show will be the beginning of another cycle.

It may be a situation where in effect, she jumped through the Galactica.

In any case, we certainly saw similar wakes and such in atmospheric jumps ever since they started doing them. When Galactica jumped away before hitting the ground of New Caprica, there was a clear up surge of rocks and air pressure changes as it jumped. There maybe a similar effect on spacetime itself. There's a lot we don't know about how the FTL works. Does it involve wormholes?

@ General Boy: I like your thinking. I won't be surprised if we learn that the Lords of Kobol were (human?) makers of a race of AI beings. Maybe all the humans in the Colonial fleet are descendants of these makers. Or maybe they are descendants of the LoK's cylons! If the Colonials are not purely human but instead all or part artificial themselves, it would be ironic on a cosmic scale, and also might explain head characters, visions and apparent projections of various human characters.

Up until No Exit, I thought the Final Five were indeed more god-like, ancient beings who were manipulating the big cycles behind the scenes. Now it appears they are themselves just a cog in the grand machine operated by some unseen force. (Although Ellen and Tigh's volatile, dysfunctional relationship has more than a passing resemblence to Zeus and Hera...hmmm, maybe they are right to steer away from the god thing.)

I'm preparing myself to not get firm answers about who or what this ultimate "string-puller" is, by the way. RDM has made it pretty clear that although the finale will answer our most burning questions, some answers, including this one, will be incomplete. I think the "who is Starbuck, really?" question may be another one of those.

Thanks. I could have worded my ideas more simply by saying that I believe that Hera's progeny will create cylons (i.e., AI beings). The cycle will continue.

It would be a shame if we didn't learn more about the BSG creation myth. That was what was so appealing to me about this show in the first place. I've been watching this show since the miniseries. Not by an a priori choice, mind you. When I heard a remake of BSG was in the works, I dismissed it. I just happened to be flipping channels on a Saturday night, and I tuned in to NBC when Apollo had just joined Roslin on Colonial One.

The most striking thing about the show, to me, was that the cylons believed in a god. Moreover, they were monotheistic. I thought it was such a compelling idea. I was hooked. I rented the miniseries that next Monday to see what I missed in the earlier part of the show. The creation myth, aside from all the other things that make this show great (e.g., existential crises; compelling drama) is what has really captured my imagination.

I'll have to check out your link. I do want to know when the cycle began, where it happened, and who was there. I might have to brace myself for disappointment.

The pressure of waiting for the next episodes is driving me crazy. Watch this video, starting at 0:25. I'm Klaus Kinski right now.

I very much agree about the appeal of the creation myth. I know that the writers and producers put the characters first and mythology second, and I understand that we won't care nearly as much about the mythology if we don't care about the characters, blah blah blah. But I do hope they don't let us down by going too far the other way.

I'm not so sure hera's gone for good. One of the Cavils wants resurrection back and wants the reincarnated Humans of the 13th Tribe (Tyrol, Ellen, et al) to come back and do so in exchange for Hera...who was writing out the notes to the Cylon Singalong Blog.

I think the writers may have written themselves in a little bit of a quandry with this Cylon No. 7 "Daniel" which has set off all sorts of theories ("ooh it's the dude from the new series Caprica yak yak yak") that don't really make any sense.

Likewise, I don't think they have made it clear that the "Final Five" (the most overhyped thing on this show, way more emphasis given to the last one than they meant, etc. etc.) aren't really "Cylons" at all.

They're just humans who can dump their memories into a new body should they die - tech from Kobol that got lost, and found again. That makes a big difference - the Rest of the Cylons are a mix of AI from the toasters and DNA-organic built beings that Ellen's Gang created for 'em.

As for what Starbuck is, I've long given up on guessing that one. All I know is that I've heard "Ship of Lights" brought up enough times by the writers to wonder if we're going to get a dose of Old Galactica that's bigger than most people can take.

BTW if you listen to the podcast there's a funny part at the beginning where a cat interrupts the podcast and it's really funny.

RE what you are saying about the monotheistic cylons... you should read the leaked Caprica script... or check out the pilot film in its final DVD version when it hits the street on April 21. They have an interesting take on (possibly only one of several) sources of that monotheism. At least for the Centurions and the Children-cylons (those created by the 13th Tribe-Cylons)...

Er, the Thirteenth Tribe is more than just humans who once knew how to resurrect. They are beings mostly similar in nature to the seven (eight) Colonial skinjobs. This was made explicitly clear in Sometimes a Great Notion, when Baltar and the rebel Cylons were able to determine that all the bones on Earth were "Cylon," and Cavil repeatedly mentioned this in "No Exit" (remember, Cavil reminds Ellen that her ancestors "didn't crawl out of the mud" and he's proud of that?) And it's heavily implied (and Ron Moore has explicitly said so in the "No Exit" podcast) that humans on Kobol first built the ancestors of the Thirteenth Tribe. So yes, the Final Five are mechanical in basically the same way the Significant Seven are mechanical (besides having been born), which is why Chief could project with Sharon in the last episode.

Regarding our conversation, the most interesting part of the interview he conducts with RDM is the series of "Yes/No" questions he poses to him about what viewers will learn by the end of the series. Specifically:

AS: Who, if anyone, is orchestrating all of this?

RDM: Basically, yeah. I don't know if it's going to be wrapped up in a neat bow. The show has an answer for it, whether it's a satisfying answer, I don't know.

AS: Will "All this has happened before and it will happen again" be explained in some way?

RDM: Yes.

AS: The opera house?

RDM: Yes.

The "orchestrating all of this" question is key, isn't it? This current episode addressed to some degree with Ellen's insight at the end. It seems we will, at least, learn about the prime mover. We may not get many details.

The show hasn't disappointed me yet. Never.

[OK. I take that back. That's not a completely honest statement. I've been irked here and there at times. I didn't care for a little of the writing for this episode, for example. I love the anti-technocratic style of the show, so when I heard, "I thought you would be alright with cylon projection" and "If she jumps, the spatial displacement will tear the guts out of Galactica!", I cringed.

That sort of writing is, what I call (as of now), "Writing for the Dumb". The movie "Apollo 13" is the most extreme example of this style. It drives me crazy. Sharon could have simply said, "I thought you would be alright with projection", and Tigh simply could have said, "If she jumps, she'll tear the guts out of the ship!". Viewers are smart, and nobody talks the way. Even in space. Minor point, though. Please continue.]

I've placed a lot of faith in the writers. We've all sort of had to develop endurance and patience with the show because of the extremely long breaks. Speculating too much about plot details, too, can drive you insane. So, I generally sit back and let the story unfold, all for the sake of my sanity.

That said, I'm anxious about all of these details we've been talking about here. "Who is the Prime Mover?", for example. As the number of episodes remaining dwindles, I have minor panic attacks (exaggerating ;-) ) about how it will all end and what we will learn. I'm worried about a deus ex machina sort of end to it all, which would kill me. Literally.

I love the Daniel-as-Starbuck's-Father theory, too, and if it's true the way I think it's going to be true, then the ending of this show is going to have some absolutely dynamite resolution to it.

Incidentally, if Daniel really is Starbuck's father, and he taught her All Along The Watchtower, then doesn't that make Daniel Bob Dylan? Or, if you recall the recording of the Philip Glass piece Starbuck plays in her apartment in Season 2, then maybe her dad is Philip Glass. OR--and this is my favorite part--maybe that means, in real life, Philip Glass and Bob Dylan are both Cylons, copies of the Daniel model. The do both kind of look alike...

@ General Boy: Yes, it's precisely the "orchestrating" question I had in mind. I do worry that it will be left too ambiguous to satisfy all the buildup, but one good thing about it is that I think we can be less nervous about a cheesy deus ex machina resolution. There are worse things than leaving some big answers open to interpretation, and a Wizard of Oz situation is one of them.

I'm worried about the "Opera House" concept. It's not impossible that we've been watching an "opera" the whole time, and the "string pulling" is being done by a Kobol playwright with mind-control skills, who will be revealed at the end. "Resurrection" turns out to be a metaphor for actors, who can die each night and come back the next day. And God, well that's the playwright...

Wasn't it also written in the scrolls that the leader of the colonials, who suffers from a wasting disease, would die before they found and arrived at Earth? Well, they found Earth, and Roslin (and anyone else who could be interpreted as a leader with a wasting disease) was still alive when they found and arrived at Earth.

Maybe I got my facts wrong - I haven't watched the first season in over a year. Please correct me if I am wrong (and I am often wrong about these things). I'm not stating this to contest your point, mind you. I'm just finding it hard to depend on the scrolls anymore to give me some sense of the direction of this show, like I used to do. I had completely forgotten that thing about the price of blood, but at this point, why not Kobol?

I'm sorry to bring this tired old subject up now, but did they *really* find Earth back there? *The* Earth? Again, if I'm right about the above information, they didn't. Roslin was alive when they found it. I must be wrong, though, or else there would be some chatter about this.

Anyway, goooooo Kobol! (unless there is another Earth. Then, go there. With due haste).

@ GB: Oh, there is plenty of chatter about whether the crispy "Revelations" planet is our Earth, or just a planet the 13th tribe named Earth and they've yet to find the real one, or whether it's "really" Earth but the show is set in a metaphorical universe and not our real one...ad infinitum. Maybe not so much here, but you don't have to look too hard on other boards. My advice at this late in the game is, don't...save your sanity.

As for Kobol, yeah the Colonials think it's cursed. Of course, dodging bullets fired by Centurions will kind of give you that impression, so if they do manage to defeat Cavil (and they WILL, right? right?) and visit it again, who knows? Maybe it'll be downright habitable without genocidal cylons running amok.

Crazy didn't-think-this-through idea: could Kobol turn out to be OUR Earth like a zillion years from now, past or present?

Frak me, this was phenominal. Although we only have precious few hours left, to spend an entire episode building exactly 2 incredible stories is EXACTLY what has been great about the series. Every second what necessary, every second was well written, and every second led up to a finale that left me tingling. I admit that I want more and more military drama but hot damn, this human/cylon drama was worth the hour. Knowing that Cavil PLAYED the humans, and, in this case, Cylons, like the emotional fools that we are AGAIN was just delicious! I mean, Baltar was screwed by Caprica Six resulting in the destruction of the colonies because he was a sucker for her charms. Then, again, Baltar was suckered by Gina, resulting in the Occupation. I mean, amazing stuff there. And now, Boomer once again suckers the humans and the Cylons. Frakkin' brilliant and frakkin' enjoyable/painful/exciting to watch.