/p/ Photography

Warning: All the content of this page originally come from 4chan.org. This is only a partial archive made to avoid destruction. Some posts and images may be missing. All the messages below have been posted by anonymous users and we do not guarantee any truth of what they said.For any illegal content, please contact me so that I can immediatly destroy it!Anonymous 2016-02-18 02:56:03 No.2771753

DigitalRev is always right, there is no point in denying. With Sony on the prowl this format will soon be extinct. Good riddance, it offered nothing innovative.

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Anonymous 2016-02-18 03:15:28 No.2771770

I think this video is pretty on point, and it bums me out because I actually like M43 and Panasonic's cameras in general.

Like Kai mentioned, something that M43 offers that nobody else really does is very small, fast, and high quality lenses. The 20 1.7 is great, and my GX1 fits in a coat pocket with it mounted. Sony doesn't have anything that comes close to comparable in FL, speed, and size.

Unfortunately, M43 sensors haven't kept up, and they haven't really made their bodies as small as they could be.

>>2771770
>video on point
A6300 has MUCH better video. Panasonic will cease their meme format production. Over priced garbage.

>>2771771
Sony is alive and beating out the competition. That's because they didn't c*ck themselves with meme sensors.

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Anonymous 2016-02-18 03:58:00 No.2771846

>>2771834
I meant that the DigitalRev video in the OP was on point about the situation, not that Panasonic's video quality is better.

I still think there's a place for M43, but it's not a good main camera like the Sonys are. M43 is awesome as an alternative to a P&S, something for a guy who has a nice DSLR setup but wants something that fits in a coat pocket for off-days. Sony's lenses are too big for that, and I actually think the biggest threat to Panasonic comes from companies like Fuji and Ricoh, not from Sony.

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Anonymous 2016-02-18 04:30:07 No.2771869

>>2771846
>M43 is awesome as an alternative to a P&S
yep

>fits in a coat pocket for off-days
hmm okay for people who live in chillier climes but there is always pic relevant

>the biggest threat to Panasonic comes from companies like Fuji and Ricoh
but they are shit at recording movie clips

The GX8 focusses more efficiently than any Sony I've tried. The only thing I can find not to like about it is that it doesn't have the robustness and heft of a Canon Powershot but that is a minor point

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Anonymous 2016-02-18 04:30:09 No.2771870

>>2771753
Yeah. APS-C has low affordable pricing, APS-C has small enough lenses, APS-C has small bodies.
And compared to that m4/3 has nothing.

The sensors are small and are naturally disadvantaged. So m4/3 would need to have better sensor technology than APS-C to win over APS-C.

Does m4/3 have better sensor technology? Nope.
So it's Dead.

Sony's development efforts goes into APS-C, Fujifilm's development efforts goes into APS-C, Samsung's development efforts goes into APS-C.
APS-C gets all the most advanced sensor technologies. How can m4/3 ever compete against that?

They are basically living on borrowed time, m4/3 can only stay alive if Panasonic pulls a super sensor out of their hat that blows the APS-C sensors out of the water. Consumer ignorance can only carry them so far.

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Anonymous 2016-02-18 04:31:24 No.2771871

>>2771869
er ... this pic relevant I mean

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Anonymous 2016-02-18 04:45:38 No.2771878

>>2771869
>The GX8 focusses more efficiently than any Sony I've tried.
I heard the Samsung sensors are better at focusing.

But the thing about Sony is they keep rolling out newer technologies every year at a stupidly fast pace, and none of it goes into their m4/3 sensors.
If you believe the marketing talk, the A6300 will have even better focusing technology than any of their current full frame sensors.
And these sensor technologies will eventually find their way into Fujifilm and Ricoh's cameras.

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Anonymous 2016-02-18 05:15:50 No.2771891

>>2771878
>I heard the Samsung sensors are better at focusing.
I haven't tried a Samsung so I can't comment

>newer technologies every year at a stupidly fast pace

Yeah but I don't buy cameras to sell a year later just because I must have the latest and greatest thing. I buy cameras to use them and expect them to last at least 4-5 years.

And these incremental improvements are so small that they are only meaningful over that time frame anyway, if even that.

If I pulled a dozen pictures off flikr shot with an A7rii and another dozen shot with a 5D3 and posted them here without the exif no one would be able to tell which cameras shot which pictures.

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Anonymous 2016-02-18 05:26:11 No.2771895

>>2771869
>hmm okay for people who live in chillier climes but there is always pic relevant

My thing is that I don't always want to carry a camera bag around. I'm 10 times more likely to stick a camera in my coat pocket than I am to grab a bag if I'm just going out for whatever.

I also really like that the GX1 + 20mm is flat enough to fit in a regular laptop bag, or in the side pocket of a normal backpack. The only Sony lenses that would fit into similar spaces are too wide for my purposes, and they're really slow too.

I'm actually in the market to replace my GX1, and I'm not sure what I want to go with.

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Anonymous 2016-02-18 05:27:56 No.2771898

>>2771891
I'm not talking about you, but the market overall.

People are not going to buy a m4/3 camera in the future if the APS-C options do everything better and is just as small.

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Anonymous 2016-02-18 06:06:29 No.2771920

>>2771891
>i don't buy new releases

well then you aren't exactly the target demo that camera companies are after, are you?

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Anonymous 2016-02-18 06:08:57 No.2771927

>m4/3 is dead
>Implying all of Micro 4/3 is Olympus
>implying Panasonic isn't doing anything
>Implying Olympus is the only mft camera maker out there
>Implying Kai actually gave a shit about Micro 4/3 to begin with
>Implying Kai isn't a huge hypocrite for claiming the system to be dead while shooting the video with a GH4

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Anonymous 2016-02-18 06:16:50 No.2771941

>>2771927
Are you a M43 owner?

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Anonymous 2016-02-18 06:23:58 No.2771951

>>2771927
Maybe not dead yet, but the battle is uphill, and it's a damn long hill.

Even in the video area, the newest APS-C sensors are going to have many advantages over the GH4. There is nothing that indicates m4/3 sensors will technologically surpass the APS-C sensors in the future.

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Anonymous 2016-02-18 06:37:24 No.2771958

>>2771753
I personally never 'got' m4/3 format.

The crop factor is too extreme, and the sensor size is IMO just too small. Pentax has a badass new FF camera for $1800, and you can get an awesome APS-C camera for not much less (or more, if you want a D500).

It had a good run but it's hard to justify it now, I think. You can cram all the features you want into it but at the end of the day the sensor size is what I think holds it back the most. There's no reason you can't build a successful system around APS-C like Fuji is doing, but m4/3 is really pushing it (IMHO).

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Anonymous 2016-02-18 06:43:33 No.2771962

>>2771958
Then again now that I think about it, I remember when the very first OM-D came out. There was no X-100s, there was no XT-1, there was no A7. So at the time, it was the first small camera that didn't have the same bottom-tier P&S quality as any other small camera. So I can appreciate that it helped kick off the MILC craze (and I don't even use mirrorless myself)

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Anonymous 2016-02-18 06:56:45 No.2771969

>>2771941
Nope. I'm a Sony NEX user

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Anonymous 2016-02-18 06:59:27 No.2771971

>>2771951
Even then, the problem is that the solutions for say 4k with larger sensors have major dealbreakers, Samsung uses H.265, Canon creates stupidly large file sizes, Nikon stops recording after 3 minutes then starts up again, and Sony is using the same sensor in their new a6300

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Anonymous 2016-02-18 07:11:07 No.2771977

>>2771962
This is exactly why I have M43. When I got my first one, the only alternative was the brand new NEX-5, and it had no lenses and an absolutely horrible interface. (The quick access menu wasn't added until later in a firmware update, before that you had go through multiple menu layers to do basic stuff.)

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Anonymous 2016-02-18 07:25:30 No.2771987

>>2771971
>Sony is using the same sensor in their new a6300
Not quite right. The new 6300 sensor records 6K resolution at full pixel read-out, it then supersample it to 4K resolution.

This sensor will eventually find its way to the other camera makers.

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Anonymous 2016-02-18 08:32:08 No.2772007

>>2771753

I'd predict that 1 inch and APS-C sensors are going to be dead while 35mm and M4/3 are going to be the prevailing small sensor formats.

M4/3 may stagnate for a few years, but larger companies like Canon and Nikon will take it up and manufacture compacts using the sensor size (like what was already seen in the Powershot G line when it migrated from 1/1.7 to 1 inch sensors) or Nikon 1 like designs. APS-C will die because for years, camera manufacturers have been only manufacturing full frame lenses when they only have crop bodies while planning the succession to full frame sensors. As the advancing chip fabrication lowers the cost of manufacture for full frame sensors, they will continue to replace APS-C sensors. Fujifilm, Pentax and Nikon have been producing 35mm lenses for years despite not even having a 35mm body on the market. They produced and Fujifilm continues to produce 35mm lenses despite the obvious size and weight benefits of producing crop lenses. Nikon and Canon have only begun to manufacture these lenses to ilk more money out of their users while planning to make them obsolete in the future.

Only a few years ago 35mm sensors were relegated to medium format backs.

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Anonymous 2016-02-18 08:41:39 No.2772009

>>2772007
>They produced and Fujifilm continues to produce 35mm lenses
No they don't you fucking retard

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Anonymous 2016-02-18 09:07:07 No.2772034

>>2772007
>Canon and Nikon will take it up and manufacture compacts using the sensor size (like what was already seen in the Powershot G line when it migrated from 1/1.7 to 1 inch sensors) or Nikon 1 like designs.
Why haven't they done so already? what's stopping them?
It seems to me that they simply prefer the 1 inch over the m4/3. Because the 1 inch sensors are more advanced, has more features, and cost less. And they are easier to create 90X super zoooom lenses for which wows the average consumer more.

>As the advancing chip fabrication lowers the cost of manufacture for full frame sensors, they will continue to replace APS-C sensors.
The only thing that's being advanced on is lowering the amount of defects. Defects will always kill full frame sensors more than smaller sensors.
A full frame sensor will (in best case) always cost 2,6 times as much money as as an APSS-C sensor. And no amount of advancements will ever change this.

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Anonymous 2016-02-18 10:35:51 No.2772062

>>2772009

Woah, somebody's getting upset that I didn't buy into their system.

>>2772034
>Why haven't they done so already? what's stopping them?

Cost.
They are moving towards that point, which is why we saw the introduction of "affordable full frame" bodies like the D600 and the 6D.

>1 inch sensors are more advanced, has more features

Only because they have chosen to make that their priority.
You could have said the same thing about 1/2.3 in 2009.

The consumer is "wowed" enough by his iPhone.
Superzoom bridge cameras are a nitch market. Most intelligent people don't want P&S quality in a camera the size of a DSLR.

"Defects will always kill full frame sensors more than smaller sensors"

That will become negligible over time. Dalsa wasn't even able to produce sensors that are now being manufactured in large scale production 10 years ago.

>A full frame sensor will (in best case) always cost 2,6 times as much money as as an APS-C sensor

That is true, but the price is relative.
The price of 35mm sensors will eventually be the price that APS-C sensors are now.

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Anonymous 2016-02-18 10:59:37 No.2772070

>>2772034
>A full frame sensor will (in best case) always cost 2,6 times as much money as as an APSS-C sensor. And no amount of advancements will ever change this.
Not true. The cost of R&D, testing, chip packaging, shipping, administrative overhead isn't proportional to sensor size, so if the cost of silicon production goes down, the difference in the final price may be much less. 2-liter cola bottles don't always cost four times as much as half-liter ones, do they?

>>2772007
>APS-C will die because for years, camera manufacturers have been only manufacturing full frame lenses
There is a metric fuckton of crop-only lenses. Especially for mirrorless. Especially from Fuji.

>Only a few years ago 35mm sensors were relegated to medium format backs.
FF DSLRs have existed since 2002.
And I don't quite remember any MF backs using 36x24 sensors.

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Anonymous 2016-02-18 11:08:09 No.2772074

>>2772070
>Especially from Fuji

Fuji makes up a relatively small market share.

I consider the late 1990s/early 200s to be a few years ago.
You are correct, however, the typical size a medium format then was 36x36mm

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Anonymous 2016-02-18 11:18:47 No.2772077

>>2772074
If you add up all EF-S, DX, E, X, NX, m4/3 lenses, you'll end up with a very sizable part of the overall market. Given that the advantages of larger sensors aren't too important for a casual user, I don't see crop dying any time soon.

Actually, now I have found a couple very old backs using a 36x24 CCD. I can't seem to find any 36x36 ones, but there's quite a lot of 44x33 and similar sizes.

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Anonymous 2016-02-18 11:25:06 No.2772081

>>2772077
>I don't see crop dying any time soon

It's going to be a slow transition.
Even phones didn't completely undermine the compact market.
Canon and Nikon will try to market crop equipment towards the low end market like Intel does with the Celeron line.

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Anonymous 2016-02-18 11:47:34 No.2772089

Feels good to be a sony owner, what companies will die next due to sony's death grip on the market? Fuji?

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Anonymous 2016-02-18 11:57:07 No.2772093

>>2772081
>implying 1/2.6" sensors can be anywhere close to apsc

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Anonymous 2016-02-18 12:22:46 No.2772101

>>2772093

I never said that.

Full frame will eventually replace APS-C for most applications.

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Anonymous 2016-02-18 12:33:41 No.2772104

>>2772101
That's what you say, meanwhile the A6300 is beating out full frame cameras.

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Anonymous 2016-02-18 12:40:55 No.2772108

>>2772104
Specs sheets don't take any photos.

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Anonymous 2016-02-18 12:49:03 No.2772111

>>2772070
>so if the cost of silicon production goes down, the difference in the final price may be much less.
You mean cost of silicium raw material going down? I'm not sure this is even a factor.
The foundry will use the same amount of electricity regardless, the electricity is normally provided by a dedicated power plant next door, so that cost is also relatively constant..
I don't think the salary of the process engineers will go down either.

In fact, the production costs tends to go upwards as you begin to require more and more advanced processes. As time passes, you need more advanced process to compete with the others, production price will go up, not down.

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Anonymous 2016-02-18 12:58:14 No.2772113

>>2772108
Wasn't that the M43 motto? Look where they are now.

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Anonymous 2016-02-18 13:00:55 No.2772114

>>2772111
Do you have any idea how silicon wafers are made and what specs they have to stand up to?
Read and learn, also take a 3 years course in material sciences to understand what it all means.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monocrystalline_silicon

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Anonymous 2016-02-18 13:01:58 No.2772115

>>2772114
Oops, I was meant to quote
>>2772070

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Anonymous 2016-02-18 13:04:22 No.2772117

Is M43s the AMD of formats?

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Anonymous 2016-02-18 13:06:51 No.2772118

>>2772117
m4/3 is more like Tegra ARM CPU. Super dead, but wallstreet still invests in them.

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Anonymous 2016-02-18 13:09:30 No.2772120

>>2772118
I seriously don't know how anyone could support M43s, it is by far the shittiest more over priced format. Even worse than leica. I'm glad people are catching on and i hope this video blows up so people stop buying into a dead format. M43 users are the worst and misinform novices. Just buy sony already, it's the only good choice and it's cheaper.

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Anonymous 2016-02-18 13:10:40 No.2772121

>>2772118
ARM is super fancy in specialized circuits like in weapons and scientific applications.
It can be still an excellent product even if you don't see it in your everyday consumer shits.

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Anonymous 2016-02-18 13:11:45 No.2772122

>>2772062
>Only because they have chosen to make that their priority.
Who is this "they" you are talking about? Canon and Nikon is irrelevant in today's 1 inch sensor progression. It's all being spearheaded by Sony, and force fed to the others.
So Sony has chosen to make 1 inch priority, and Canon Nikon will just have to deal with it.

>That will become negligible over time.
When you stay on the same process, yes. But when you need a more advanced process, the defects will crop back up.

>The price of 35mm sensors will eventually be the price that APS-C sensors are now.
Can you explain how?

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Anonymous 2016-02-18 13:14:23 No.2772123

>>2772121
>It can be still an excellent product
It is, if it's a Qualcomm chip.

It's dead, if it's the Tegra. Hence my analogy.

>even if you don't see it in your everyday consumer shits.
ARM is everywhere in consumer shits. Just not Tegra, because that shit is dead.

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Anonymous 2016-02-18 13:17:51 No.2772125

I love waking up in the morning to see one less sony """""competitor""""". feels good to be a A6000 owner.

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Anonymous 2016-02-18 13:19:03 No.2772126

>>2772125
You mean customer. m3/4 manufacturers are their customers.

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Anonymous 2016-02-18 13:22:27 No.2772127

>>2772126
Yep, Sony did the right thing by cucking m4/3 idiots with low tier performance. The money just wasn't significant, now they can invest their time, which was wasted on m43, into APS-C and FF sensors.

Glorious Sony

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Anonymous 2016-02-18 13:28:00 No.2772130

>>2771958
>You can cram all the features you want into it but at the end of the day the sensor size is what I think holds it back the most
I kind of agree but disagree with you at the same time. It's lens selection that holds cameras back. Lens selection is held back by crop factor.
>>2772081
>Canon and Nikon will try to market crop equipment towards the low end market like Intel does with the Celeron line.
They already do.

>>2772089
Clearly the next giant to fall will be Mamiya/Phase one. Who needs MF when you can just buy an A7RII.
>>2772120
>it is by far the shittiest more over priced format. >Even worse than leica.
>I'm glad people are catching on and i hope this video blows up so people stop buying into a dead format.
Leica isn't a format. Also:
>Digital camera sensor
>not a dead format

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Anonymous 2016-02-18 13:31:43 No.2772131

>>2772130
>Who needs MF when you can just buy an A7RII.
Phase One has a new 100MP MF sensor with 16 bit colour resolution. They aren't going anywhere.

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Anonymous 2016-02-18 13:37:20 No.2772132

>>2772121
>if you don't see it in your everyday consumer shits

You mean like a phone?

MIPS is more like what previously described.

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BJDrew 2016-02-18 13:38:40 No.2772134

I regret getting my wife on of those OM-D cameras. It was okay, I guess but really should have just gotten her a Sony.

We all know where this u4/3 thing is headed.

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Anonymous 2016-02-18 13:41:21 No.2772136

>>2772134
Sony is KING.

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Anonymous 2016-02-18 13:50:21 No.2772139

>>2772122
>Can you explain how?

A full frame sensor cost over $15,000 in the late 1990s as a part of a medium format system. They now cost under $5,000 (if you compare a current generation Canon) but they work a lot faster, have much better high ISO performance and are overall a much more advanced chip for a quarter of the price of what they used to be 15 years ago.

>But when you need a more advanced process, the defects will crop back up.

Of course, but the 70D series doesn't have as an advanced feature set like the 1Dx as it is. Most cameras will be using previous generation lithography like they are now.

>Who is this "they" you are talking about?

Nikon, Canon, Sony too.
My point was that those major brands have been moving past 1/1.7 and 1/2.3 to 1 inch and it is likely that they will move to M4/3 in the future.
They don't want to because their mounts, lens and AF protocols will no longer be proprietary.
Sony stuffed a full frame sensor into a compact although I highly doubt that that will become the norm.

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Anonymous 2016-02-18 13:52:02 No.2772141

>>2772130
>They already do.

I know, I'm talking about the future.
EF-S lenses will have a much smaller place in the coming years.

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Anonymous 2016-02-18 13:54:05 No.2772143

>>2772130
>Mamiya/Phase one

Phase One will just consolidate themselves into Mamiya Leaf if it came to that.

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Anonymous 2016-02-18 13:59:46 No.2772145

>>2772143
>>2772131
I should have used a smugger image desu. Clearly I was poking fun at Sony shills.
>>2772141
>EF-S lenses will have a much smaller place in the coming years.
They already do. The point is that almost every Canon camera is low end already :^)

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Anonymous 2016-02-18 14:03:58 No.2772150

Anyone waiting for all their stocks to fall?

Get a gh4 for 200$ which I think it's what it should have cost when it was released.

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Anonymous 2016-02-18 14:09:54 No.2772159

>>2772139
>A full frame sensor cost over $15,000 in the late 1990s as a part of a medium format system. They now cost under $5,000
I'm actually asking for you to be far more specific.

Canon is currently producing a bunch of Full Frame sensors based on ass old 500nm process.
Please explain how these can ever become any cheaper than they already are.

>Of course, but the 70D series doesn't have as an advanced feature set like the 1Dx as it is.
That's Canon's decision, their own fault. 70D's competitors will move to more advanced manufacturing and outclass it.

>My point was that those major brands have been moving past 1/1.7 and 1/2.3 to 1 inch
This move was at the mercy of Sony's development roadmap though, the 1 inch sensors just got too damn advanced to be ignored. What I'm trying to say is Canon and Nikon has no influence here.

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Anonymous 2016-02-18 14:17:56 No.2772167

>>2772145
>I should have used a smugger image desu. Clearly I was poking fun at Sony shills.
But you're only proving that there are no Sony shills.

All there is is a hunch of Sony haters who falseflags.

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Anonymous 2016-02-18 14:32:51 No.2772175

>>2772145
>I should have used a smugger image desu

Yes, you should have.

>Please explain how these can ever become any cheaper than they already are.

>>2772167
>there are no Sony shills.
There are either Sony shills, or Sony trolls. Either way, the reaction is the same. A continuing association between Sony and fucking retards who aren't taking or sharing photos, and who are instead, talking about specs on cameras they have never touched, and will never use.

>>

Anonymous 2016-02-18 14:40:01 No.2772178

>>2772175
>More production.
Creating more and more full frame wafers won't bring down the cost of each wafer that much.
I won't believe you in this case.

Canon already reached the point where defects are minimal, so you can't get cheaper on that account either.
They can't regress to a cheaper process older than 500nm, so that's not an option either.

>>

Anonymous 2016-02-18 14:40:28 No.2772179

Is Samsung NX next? I sure hope so, these manufacturers are doing it all wrong and not offering anything worthwhile.

Olympus
Panasonic
Samsung

All dead.

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Anonymous 2016-02-18 14:42:11 No.2772183

>>2772179
Panasonic is in better shape than the other two.

Leica is hiring them to make some of their cameras.

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Anonymous 2016-02-18 14:49:14 No.2772188

>>2772111
The cost of raw material is not insignificant for something as big as a FF sensor.

But I meant lithography as well, basically, all parts of production where size of the sensor IC matters.

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Anonymous 2016-02-18 14:53:45 No.2772195

>>2772179
NX is *officially* dead.

None of the other crop systems (except Leica T) are dying any time soon because most customers are not gearfags from /p/.

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Anonymous 2016-02-18 15:21:10 No.2772208

>>2772195
Sony already has a choke hold on the market. It's hard to see how these crop factors are going to survive.

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Anonymous 2016-02-18 15:29:02 No.2772212

>>2772208
What?

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Anonymous 2016-02-18 15:55:54 No.2772217

>>2772178

The sensors themselves don't cost that much money as was seen with the 6D.
Canon and Nikon have kept the price inflated over the years.

>>

Anonymous 2016-02-18 16:02:05 No.2772219

I think it's soon to say anything before the GH5 get announced.

And Sony for some reason is holding back some techs that could make them really hard to beat.

-touchscreen is the obvious one.
-IBIS on the A6300
-they know how to make weather sealed hardware
-stacked sensor in every model, for much faster readout and global shutter like full electronic shutter.
-crazy tech like variable nd.

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Anonymous 2016-02-18 17:57:41 No.2772301

>>2772219
>-they know how to make weather sealed hardware

the day i can shoot my sony in the rain / pool
is the day i finally piss my own pants

i think the largest issue is the lens, i had an idea of using that magical spray shit to make an old dslr "waterresistant", but then i realized what happens if water gets in the lens elements and starts fucking shit up, really hard to control that i think.

i think that's the only reason they havent

touchscreen is on the 5100 but not the 6Ks
don't really know if it's all that useful, i never touched it when i was playing with my friends

>full electronic shutter
i thought the 6300 got this with its "silent shutter" mode

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Anonymous 2016-02-18 18:21:47 No.2772304

>>2772301
the a5100 touch screen is for focus area. that's it.
you can zoom for focus aid if you use a manual lens.

>>

Anonymous 2016-02-18 18:52:41 No.2772318

>>2772304
ohhh, that's pretty dumb

yea i just have my center button do that on my a6000

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Anonymous 2016-02-18 20:08:35 No.2772366

>>2772121
If MFT is the ARM CPU then Nikon 1 cameras are like the Intel Atom or chink-tier Mediatek chips

>>

Anonymous 2016-02-18 20:11:04 No.2772368

>>2772366
And Sony is the Intel skylake 6,000,000k.

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Anonymous 2016-02-18 20:13:14 No.2772370

I really wish that Pentax, Samsung, and Fuji weren't the only manufacturers making high-end crop lenses, look at every other manufacturer and you see one fast zoom, a bunch or shite consumer zooms, and cheapo plastic primes. Since MFT is still technically a crop sensor, they have the most high-end crop lenses of any system, everyone else is nothing but consumer or mid-range stuff in the crop sensor market

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