The problem with that theory is that doomgards are of the Ered'ruin species, one of the species that put Sargeras into a depression in the first place (WoW Magazine). My headcanon goes that they were enslaved after Sargeras defeated and imprisoned them.

Possibly. Although when discussing his race's 'origins,' a Doomguard says they were the Titans hounds, forever enslaved before Sargeras 'freed them.' No mention of being captured by Sargeras first.

But I think that could be exactly what causes Sargeras' depression - the Doomguard are created, employed by the Titans, but they're too twisted due to their affinity with dark magicks - they were intended to police the use of evil magic but grew to find it 'delicious.' So the Titans have Sargeras round them all up and lock them away, hence Sargeras getting bummed out - the Titans only made things worse by bringing an evil race into the universe.

Maybe that was the true source of Sargeras' hatred towards the Pantheon - the races they were creating in their quest for Order were going bad and becoming demons, and only making the universe a crappier place, hence Sargeras' plunge to the dark side and the beginning of his quest for total annihilation.

The problem with implementing it is how could Blizzard possibly include Alliance players? They can't really have Alliance players questing in Orgrimmar. And it's too diplomacy/political drama oriented to be a scenario.

Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment

´So.. sorry to bring this up but..you know that .."thing" (Med'an).. is that "thing" cannon still?
...as much have some have wished otherwise, yes. (Loreology)

Firstly the faction bias here is pretty clear. The sad thing is Kosak doesn't even seem to be able to comprehend that there's a problem with the Alliance side of the story and this is coming from someone who mostly plays Horde. What do we want? What I'd like is an outcome for the Siege that makes sense; i.e The Alliance occupies Orgrimmar and Varian is stationed in Garrosh' place for one patch. Then he selects a new Warchief and we're left with a few 7th Legion guards and maybe Anduin hanging out in Orgrimmar. Also I'd like to see the Alliance victories represented in the game, even if just through phased quests at high level and not in the game world at large. That would be logical and it would be Fist-pumpy.

I think Kosak is being coy about Tirisfal. Previous answers to that question made it appear as though they had a lot more specifically planned for Tirisfal. I'm going with Tyr being under there. I mean next time you say Tirisfal blend the words a bit. Sounds a lot like Tyr's fall to me.

I would have liked Dalaran floating above Orgrimmar. The technical difficulties make no sense. They didn't have to move the physical in-game city above Orgrimmar, they could have just had an unreachable animation in the Skybox and maybe in a couple of fights that mana barrages would have been a mechanic. Jaina or Vereesa needn't even appear in person, just a little acknowledgment that the Alliance pretty much has it's own Deathstar would be nice. As for the "problem" that it wouldn't fit with the tone of the Dungeon kind of falls apart now that everyone is saying how they wanted Dalaran there.

Disappointed at the shaky answers regarding Draenei lore. Really hope we get some more lore for them next Xpac.

The Alliance occupies Orgrimmar and Varian is stationed in Garrosh' place for one patch. Then he selects a new Warchief and we're left with a few 7th Legion guards and maybe Anduin hanging out in Orgrimmar.

something only Horde players will be looking at, with bitter resentment

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Originally Posted by Protar

I think Kosak is being coy about Tirisfal.

Its supposed to be coy. There are 'hint's and nothing more, so that if Blizzard ever decides to do something involving it they can, but it dsnt mean they will.
Thats why he wont give a definitive yes or no answer

We have faced trials and danger, threats to our world and our way of life. And yet, we persevere. We are the Horde. We will not let anything break our spirits!"

something only Horde players will be looking at, with bitter resentment

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Its supposed to be coy. There are 'hint's and nothing more, so that if Blizzard ever decides to do something involving it they can, but it dsnt mean they will.
Thats why he wont give a definitive yes or no answer

A problem, but a workable one. Maybe even make Orgrimmar Alliance accessible in the Pre-xpac patch? Maybe have something else in Stormwind to mirror it?

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Originally Posted by Dreknar20

Its supposed to be coy. There are 'hint's and nothing more, so that if Blizzard ever decides to do something involving it they can, but it dsnt mean they will.
Thats why he wont give a definitive yes or no answer

Yes, but in the past Blizzard have been more willing to give answers which look like they have some specific plan. "There's something there but it's not an Old God." But now it's "eh, we just needed a creepy place as a plot hook we don't really...".

Yes, but in the past Blizzard have been more willing to give answers which look like they have some specific plan. "There's something there but it's not an Old God." But now it's "eh, we just needed a creepy place as a plot hook we don't really...".

It's the same answer they gave for the empty/inaccessible zones. Just placeholders in case they need it.

Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment

´So.. sorry to bring this up but..you know that .."thing" (Med'an).. is that "thing" cannon still?
...as much have some have wished otherwise, yes. (Loreology)

Metzen mentioned at launch that this expansion was the build up to the war - is this still the case and bigger conflict is coming? Or is this the actual war now?

Alliance fist pump moment - it was promised - what is it?

Where is Dalaran? where is it going?

I was disappointed as usual by Kosak's responses regarding Alliance themes, almost every new piece of Alliance lore is more about what is happening with the Horde. He presents answers like "the Horde is dissolving" which frankly we know nothing about nor does it concern us.

The Alliance "fist-bump" moment has come and gone apparently. I must have blinked.

Dalaran is unlikely to be changed in any way, Orgrimmar is unlikely to be changed in any way. Ah well...

Nice interview, but Dave totally misses the point about the Alliance, and it seems Blizzard as a whole either ignores the problem or just misses it, the later being even worse. The Alliance lore in MoP has been downright boring. Yeah, Jade Forest was cool, on par with the horde story, but ever since its all Garrosh Garrosh Garrosh, just like last xpac was all about Thrall Thrall Thrall. Now it seems like the final battle is all about Thrall vs. Garrosh, awesome - no Varian, no Jaina, no other Alliance leaders who have been totally ignored. The issue is that while the Alliance is "winning", its a boring faction, its only moving at the Horde's pace and by the Horde's lore. The Horde lore is what's moving the game at the moment, and the Alliance is just "there".

I'd actually love the Alliance being an inferior, weaker faction if this will bring me better lore, but the whole big happy family concept is uber-boring, especially when only humans play some kind of part, and the rest of the race leaders are nowhere to be seen. Dalaran is useless because its Alliance-only on paper, but in game its still neutral. The ending scene after the Garrosh fight will likely have a cinematic of Horde leaders, most likely Thrall, doing the talking, with Alliance leaders not even there. Varian should have been the one to confront Garrosh given the history of the two (Ulduar patch trailer says hi).

Shame we can't see Dalaran above Orgrimmar, I think as it stands some of the big issues atm with the story from an Alliance PoV is the fact most of the changes that make sense are limited by the game whereas the Horde's is not.

In the end the Alliance want the conflict resolved and their land returned as the conflict comes to it's end. This cannot be shown in game and judging by the devs comments after Cata never will.
Dalaran is now an Alliance city. Yet this cannot be shown in game because it would imbalance the cities. It cannot be shown above Orgrimmar because of the problems it would cause.

Then there's stuff that's just poorly shown in game. Such as 5.3. We're going into a war zone with SI:7 to sow discord among the Orc ranks and to gather data on the shores of Durotar for our invasion fleet. The idea is perfectly sound, right down to working with Vol'jin in the end. But what is shown in game is so poor. A robot cat that collects paper. That's not espionage.

The former being one of the biggies. The Alliance goal this war was to restore some semblance of peace and to recover it's land the Horde had waged war upon. This isn't going to happen. Whereas the Horde's is simply to replace the Warchief to bring in an new era of peace for the Horde, this is incredibly easy to show.

What perhaps frustrates me about this is that Blizzard have already acknowledged this Alliance issue. So if that's the case it would make sense to give the Alliance some short stories or another novel to patch up what cannot be shown in game. But this doesn't seem to be the case at all. Out of the three short stories that involve either the Horde or Alliance, all three have only involved the Horde. We also have no news on whether or not we will be receiving a novel at the of this expansion.
I realize this doesn't resolve the issue of things not being shown in game, but it's damn well better than nothing.

You know, the novel where the Alliance city is blown up by a nuke, its leader goes crazy, our High King loses even more troops in a failed attack on Orgrimmar, and we lose a decent amount of important Alliance higher-ups. B-B-But Garrosh is shown to be mean! That makes it allllll better.

Its ok though, we're seiging the Horde's capital city. I love how Kosak just leaves out "With the Rebellion with the sole purpose of dethroning Garrosh. And then after the Alliance leaves and we don't regain any land nor do anything toward the Horde after." Its fine though, its fine! We get the "Conqueror of Orgrimmar" title. THAT TOTALLY MEANS WE WERE IMPORTANT EVERYONE.

Last edited by KrazyK923; 2013-08-27 at 09:21 AM.

^Bonafide Sissy Homo

Originally Posted by Protar

You know I do feel bad for you. Must be pretty horrible to be so beaten down about your sexuality that you feel the need to perform mental gymnastics to erase homophobia in the media, just so you're not seen causing a fuss by straight people.

Sure, learning about raid mechanics and new dailies is great for some people, but the only thing that matters to me is the story.
Let's get super nerdy with Dave Kosak, Lead Quest designer, and ask him the important questions :P

5.4:
Are you still happy with announcing Garrosh's defeat as early as you did?
Metzen mentioned at launch that this expansion was the build up to the war - is this still the case and bigger conflict is coming? Or is this the actual war now?
Alliance fist pump moment - it was promised - what is it?
What is the moment (in your mind) when Garrosh "becomes a bad guy", seems like he just did all the sudden?
What important orcs are left now since most are dead? Will we see any of them return (wink wink)?
Why leave Sylvannas out of the main story line? Is it like Rhonin in Cata? Just couldn't fit him in?
Why are the Klaxxi joining Garrosh?

Random:
Which came first? Old Gods or Titans?
Where is Dalaran? where is it going?
What are the Naaru up to?
And Draenei - they getting some story soon?
Will we ever seen the Dragon Aspects again?
Is there anything below Tirisfal? (This is the final answer on this question guys)
Where are the following people? Will we see them soon?
Gallywix?
Rexxar?
Me'dan?
Magatha Grimtotem?
Bolvar?
Alleria and Turalyon?

Its ok though, we're seiging the Horde's capital city. I love how Kosak just leaves out "With the Rebellion with the sole purpose of dethroning Garrosh. And then after the Alliance leaves and we don't regain any land nor do anything toward the Horde after." Its fine though, its fine! We get the "Conqueror of Orgrimmar" title. THAT TOTALLY MEANS WE WERE IMPORTANT EVERYONE.

The funniest thing is when he starts reciting the "Alliance victories/achievements" with the patch nummers of this expansion:
5.1. We stop Garrosh using the bell
5.2. (Uhm...) Dalaran is purged (What?)
5.3. We see the Horde crumble (I'm sorry, the only thing I saw was being Vol'jin's errand boy fuming his rebellion)
5.4. WE SIEGE ORGRIMMAR !!! ()

Comes to show the differences between what we are experiencing and what Blizzard is believing showing story.

The funniest thing is when he starts reciting the "Alliance victories/achievements" with the patch nummers of this expansion:
5.1. We stop Garrosh using the bell
5.2. (Uhm...) Dalaran is purged (What?)
5.3. We see the Horde crumble (I'm sorry, the only thing I saw was being Vol'jin's errand boy fuming his rebellion)
5.4. WE SIEGE ORGRIMMAR !!! ()

Comes to show the differences between what we are experiencing and what Blizzard is believing showing story.

Yup. We learn of and stop the Divine Bell within the patch's story. There is no ramification from it other than Garrosh is still bad. Which he would have been even if he still had the bell. Also in 5.1 Dalaran is purged, that'd be great if we saw it in-game at any current point of the lore. I also like how the Sunreavers + Rommath's Magi completely rival the Kirin Tor 100% on the Isle of Thunder. 5.3? Robo-Cat. That's all I have to say. Siege? We help the Rebellion depose their Warchief and then just up and leave. Woo, Alliance victory!

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Originally Posted by Kazomir

So they can take Dalaran, and replace NPC's there with Alliance and Kirin Tor ones the same to further the story, easy as pie.

They also can just put it in the raid itself where players can't fly and thus all the NPCs aren't even necessary to be there. Just the city with a few textures such as wires/npcs floating down/arcane stuff being launched at Org. I could forgive his excuses for most of them, but this one was kind of ridiculous (As well as the "fist-pump moment" being Dalaran).

^Bonafide Sissy Homo

Originally Posted by Protar

You know I do feel bad for you. Must be pretty horrible to be so beaten down about your sexuality that you feel the need to perform mental gymnastics to erase homophobia in the media, just so you're not seen causing a fuss by straight people.

You know, the novel where the Alliance city is blown up by a nuke, its leader goes crazy, our High King loses even more troops in a failed attack on Orgrimmar, and we lose a decent amount of important Alliance higher-ups. B-B-But Garrosh is shown to be mean! That makes it allllll better.

Using Cata as an example it's perfectly reasonable to get another novel.
We had two that focused on Thrall and one that focused on Varian. It doesn't seem far fetched that there could be another novel in the works.

Lately I haven't been assuming things that would be in the Alliance's favor, interest, or even be involved in.

^Bonafide Sissy Homo

Originally Posted by Protar

You know I do feel bad for you. Must be pretty horrible to be so beaten down about your sexuality that you feel the need to perform mental gymnastics to erase homophobia in the media, just so you're not seen causing a fuss by straight people.

I can answer this one for you. The Klaxxi don't join Garrosh. The Klaxxi has always worshiped the Olds Gods. Now Y'Shaarj heart is found and the Old God became 'active' they worship that heart and wants to protect at all cost. They only don't attack Garrosh cause they feel that Garrosh 'worship' that heart as well and see him as an equal.