Rape: not so bad?

From the IAmAnAtheist feedback form:

You made fun of what I said about Christian women rather being raped than commit murder by saying that I haven’t asked a lot of women about this. That was snide but it didn’t answer my point, which is that rape doesn’t justify murder. Rape is nasty and it’s a sin (it’s adultery because they aren’t married and if the woman is a virgin or married it’s theft) but you can’t kill someone because of adultery or theft. Would you kill someone who your husband had relations with? That’s murder. Would you kill someone who stole your car? That’s murder. If killing for rape is murder than killing for just attempting to rape is even worse. The person’s dying for something they haven’t even done.

Atheists always use rape as an argument for justifying killing because they want to justify abortion. But is rape really that bad? It’s a horrible experience but you get over it with time. If you use it to justify murder you’re never going to get over it. Imagine you have a painful divorce. Would you murder your children after because they remind you of your ex husband? Of course not. I think any woman would easily tell you that a painful divorce is worse than rape but it’s not an excuse to kill your baby, so why is rape?

Christian women can also take a lot more than atheist women. Maybe this is part of the reason that atheists get so hung up about this. Christian women can turn to Christ or worship God in their hearts and endure great suffering. I’m not belittling it but think about it, no amount of suffering from rape is as great as the suffering our Lord suffered on the cross for our sins. You are the one who has to ask more true Christian women about this. You’re out of touch and trying to make a big deal out of something just for shock value.

Wow. I don’t even know where to start responding to this. You, frankly, seem to have no idea how bad rape is. Comparing it to something as impersonal as an auto accident seems to highlight your lack of understanding. Your implication that I’m getting “hung up” on something that’s not “a big deal” doesn’t earn you any sympathy points, either.

Your closing remark about how much more a Christian woman can withstand is just bizarre to me. Are you saying it causes less harm to rape a Christian woman because the Christian woman can take it? I’d appreciate it if you’d tell me I’m wrong about this.

I’d also appreciate your telling me that I misunderstood part of your justification for rape being a sin. You say it’s a sin because it’s either adultery or theft, but wouldn’t that mean that it’s not a sin if a man rapes his wife?

Please spend some significant time thinking over opinion on this subject. Even better, talk to a pastor or a number of women about it. Honestly, I find your point of view creepy.

As an atheist, as a woman and as a human being I am extremely offended by this. Rape is not a sin because it’s theft or adultery, it is wrong because it is a violent crime that can inflict horrible physical and psychological damage on a person. You are very much belittling it and I don’t think anyone would appreciate being told to just suck it up after having something like that done to them.

I am flabbergasted that anyone could hold such views. But there is one that is understandable from a psychological standpoint: the view that christian women “can take more”. The author is making this judgment using he/her own experience (and the mistaken assumption that prayer makes one “stronger”) and what this author sees is suffering. I have seen it, too.

The fundamental christians I have encountered insist that women serve and obey men, regardless of age, ability, expertise, or relationship. I won’t assume that all suffer as a product of this subservience, but I certainly would not want to endure it.

I’m so glad I’m not a Christian anymore. I probably thought this way at one time, though I wasn’t idiot enough to write it in a public place. Now, I know better. Christianity made me such a disgusting, stupid person. Reality and atheist made me a much better one.

Well first of all as a woman who has survived rape…eff you to the person who wrote that! If I could have reached anything to defend myself then I would have defended myself to the death! Luckily I didn’t get pregnant or have any lasting health issues, but I would have gotten an abortion…at 15 I didn’t want kids. I would prefer to commit murder than to be raped, but to tell you the truth I would rather live in a society where neither would occur.

I was a devout Christian when I was raped, and to be honest I think it was the catalyst to begin my deconversion from the church. I was so sick and tired of “God wouldn’t give you more than you could handle.” Also, you never “get over” a trauma like that, you obviously know nothing about the subject. You do move on and survive, but you never just forget and get over it. It effects the rest of your life and every decision I have made about my personal life. The Christian community made me feel ashamed about what had happened to me, where as I found true support from a lot of non-religious individuals. I’m sorry that some adult males couldn’t handle seeing a teenager in a tank top and shorts on a running trail, but of course the Christian community chastised me for wearing a tank top, well the POS that raped me was a married, “Christian,” with 3 kids, and now he lives in nice small jail cell, but I guess what he did is okay in your mind since god will forgive him and all. Most likely his ex-wife and 3 kids won’t forgive him, and neither will I.

You are some ignorant POS who should not be commenting on something that you know NOTHING about.

I’d be unsurprised to find that this person is quite young – a 15yo with little idea of how the world actually works, so he tries to reason from principle. I’d also guess that he’s never been seriously assaulted or made someone’s victim.

Cut the kid a break, I say, and gently explain to him that his ideas are deficient and wrong.

paul, I have to say that the whole, “this comment isn’t from a real christian” thing is irritating. If he identifies as a christian, he is one. I am sure there are even passages in the abrahamic bible to back up his point of view. Real Christianity is ugly, mean and jealous. deal with it.

It makes no sense to present the assertion “Christian women can take more” as an advantage. It’s not an advantage but the opposite.
Being conditioned to endure suffering means that more people get away with inflicting suffering on others. A trained numbness towards injustice and violence is the direct cause of antisocial and uncompassionate attitude and behavior. Extremist religion has historically and still is the best breeding ground for self-righteous authoritarianism, violent enforcement of desires and suppression of those deemed subordinate, along with submission to unjust conditions and Stockholm-syndrome type excuse of actions and actors. There is no other social environment on Earth in which children and wives, “weakling” boys, exceptionally intelligent and thoughtful individuals are beaten, yelled, sanctioned and punished as constantly and systematically as in extremist religion. Most of this is given a free pass as “freedom of religion”, while we don’t even see the vast majority of the hate and the violence that actually goes on. What we hear about are the cases of another “family values” hypocrite caught with prostitutes and in adultery with members of either sex, homosexual youth committing suicide, small children hospitalized for not saying Amen properly, women herded into breeding and servitude boxes labeled as their homes. Society gives sociopaths so much leeway that they can even form huge, internationally operating “family interests” organisations and get rich by publishing books about how to properly make young and female humans serve the patriarch.

It must end, and it will not end by praying for victims for the ten thousandth time and creating yet more artificial wriggle room by forwarding respect and disinterest under the guises of religious and educational freedom. Beating or brainwashing people into submission – both is akin to rape, and both needs to be outlawed and properly, intensely persecuted.

Written by PuzzledPonderer
on May 19, 2010 at 1:03 am Reply · Permalink

Excuse the ignorance – but am I the only one who is confused about where you got the quote from? There’s no link or anything? Was that a comment made to you or something?

I’m astonished at the uneducated, offensive, mysogynistic, hateful attitude. It sounds like it came from a sociopathic or perhaps even psychopathic individual.

Well – they DO spend their lives worshipping an imaginary psychotic friend.

And above all else – surely their god – kills more unborn babies than ANYTHING – thru miscarriage etc. Its a bigger crime to bring unwanted children into this world, especially if there’s no way to support them – just like Xtian teaching in the third world – than family planning.

The offical position of the church AND bible is very clear about rape and women as property (or as 2nd class citizens because thats so much more modern and civilised). This man is a perfect christian to my mind.

You are right however that he is completely sick in the head. The only question is how much his religion is responsible for that.

Just so every statement in the three paragraphs has been refuted, here’s a take on paragraph 2

But is rape really that bad? It’s a horrible experience but you get over it with time. If you use it to justify murder you’re never going to get over it. Imagine you have a painful divorce. Would you murder your children after because they remind you of your ex husband? Of course not. I think any woman would easily tell you that a painful divorce is worse than rape but it’s not an excuse to kill your baby, so why is rape?

1. Rape is a violent crime and is universally traumatic. Divorce is usually not. The victim who’s getting raped does not choose that fate; divorcees most often do… (you moron)

2(a). Abortion is not murder. The foetus is not a baby, atleast insofar as multicellular balls of goo aren’t babies.

2(b). Not being a parent or a woman, I can’t be certain about this, but I think it’s rather difficult to form intimate personal bonds with balls of goo. Children, on the other hand, parents do form bonds with; usually very intimate, and lasting whole lifetimes.

You say it’s a sin because it’s either adultery or theft, but wouldn’t that mean that it’s not a sin if a man rapes his wife?

Of course not, to Christians of this ilk a wife is property and you can do with your property as you like (even beat your human property to death, Exodus 21:21). Just look at the logic; rape is either adultery (stealing a man’s wife) or theft (stealing a man’s right to a virginal bride). The woman is irrelevant to misogynistic pigs like this.

What’s really odd is that he goes on to gawp in incredulity at the idea of killing someone for adultery (Leviticus 20:10) or theft (Exodus 22:3). Yea, what kind of crazy ass religion would condone that!?

Also? Car theft and rape aren’t even in the same ballgame. I’d be pissed for a few weeks (maybe) if my car got stolen, and then I’d GTF over it. I’d be devastated and need therapy for months if I got raped.

This is one of the most horrible idiotic things I have ever read. Its comments like these that make me never want to be part of a religion.

As a victim, I did not want to carry around memories of that horrible day. Is it not best for one to get an abortion instead of raising something you may end up hating? Luckily, I wasn’t pregnant, but there was no way in hell I would have spent nine months with something from the attacker inside of me. Nor would I be financially stable enough to take care of the child. Does the person even think of these things? I also do not believe in giving children up for adoption, I was in foster care and would not put any child of mine through such a thing. It’s much better to stop the process before it ever has a chance of occurring, and give the soul a chance to be born to someone else who is better for it.

Written by Stoned Atheist
on May 19, 2010 at 8:43 am Reply · Permalink

Some questions for your commenter: If he was about to be raped by a man (or perhaps some men), would he kill to prevent it? How bad would it be? Could he just walk away unscathed because of his faith? Would he be able to face his friends and family without shame? What if the seed of that rape were to grow within him? What if he was asked to dedicate the rest of his life to loving and caring for said seed, giving up all his dreams and plans to do so? He talks a mean talk, but I seriously doubt he’d be able to walk the walk he thinks should be so easy.

Rape is the removal, sometimes forceful removal of choice.
It is not death, or death of the soul (unless you can prove the soul exists, and obsessive belief does not make it so…ask Galileo).
Using an ancient story-book to justify killing is insane.
Ask the victims of the Inquisition..or any faith based killing.
Erasing someone from existence for rape is also insane.
Why, because we can then justify killing for a whole Pandora’s box of insane reasons. (we do it already anyway) That road of reasoning just gets darker and darker.
Life should not be taken, unless life has been taken.
In a self-defense situation (rape attack with a weapon)
then they have made the choice to do you harm. You then make the choice of you or them. Animal instinct survival.
Part of human nature.
Self defense and rape have been with people longer than ancient story-books, or the arrogant notion that: this generation has centuries of human troubles all definitively figured out. A retarded echo of a narcissistic society devoid of reason or compassion.
Remember, you’re special……just like everyone else.

Rape is a violation of the fundamental human right to make one’s own choices for one’s self. Someone who rapes another is proving at that moment that he does not respect the fundamental right of others and therefore has no place in a free society. Permanent imprisonment (to protect the rest of us, not to punish him) or death (while the attempt is ongoing) are perfectly acceptable responses. What is not acceptable is punishing either party, neither the perpetrator nor the victim, because a) the victim doesn’t deserve it, and b) punishment makes everyone else feel guilty and leads to early release and other stupidities, eventually leading to more victims.

Forcing a woman to bear a pregnancy and raise a baby conceived in rape is punishing her. It’s unacceptable. That doesn’t mean a woman couldn’t choose to raise a child of rape, but it’s the woman’s choice and no one else’s. Anyone who insists otherwise is simply proving that he, too, does not believe in the fundamental right to make one’s own choices (and therefore doesn’t belong in a free society, either). Then again, this is the fundamental, firmly entrenched error of Christianity, Islam, and Judaism, so expecting die-hard members of any of those faiths to understand this point is little more than wishful thinking.

Sentencing the rapist to so many years in prison to punish him is the wrong reason to send the rapist to prison. Put him in prison to protect other women, not to punish him, and then we know why we may or may not release him. If there’s a chance he’s going to do it again (and, let’s face it, our psychological overlords have no clue how to make an indecent person decent again), he stays in prison. Period.

If everyone understood the simplicity of the fundamental right to make one’s own choices for one’s self, laws would be pointless. Life would be so much easier. Our entire legal system would need to find something else to do, though. Maybe we collectively need more imagination, too.

As Francisco ‘Pancho’ Villa said: The Spaniards inflicted upon us the worst superstition the world has ever known: the Catholic religion. For this alone they should all be shot.
If you live in a fantasy world, you can do anything in its name, like condoning rape.
I think this creature ought to spend a couple months in jail wiht a few guys named Spike N Big Daddy to experience how “not a big deal” being raped is.

This is not a shock coming from a ‘christianist’…. I grew up in Lubbock, TX where that kind of hypocrisy is rampant.

During a loud discussion once spurred by a news story about a student at Texas Tech using chloroform on his roommate in order to anally rape him, the stupid christianists I worked with vehemently defended raping women as “more natural” and acceptable than “butt-fuckin'” another man.

I will never forget how intense they got about it too.

It really made an impression on to have three supposed “god-fearin'” men agree that its better and that God understands for any man to force himself into a woman–even drugging her to do so– over a man who would do anything to another man’s butt hole. Insane.

As a woman who considers herself to be Christian I would absolutely kill someone to prevent myself from being raped. Self defense is not murder and I honestly think that rape and murder are roughly on par with eachother as far as robbing a person of his/her life. This idiot is far from educated and obviously knows nothing about real life. He has a seriously skewed outlook.

Self-defense is justifiable homicide. I’d do it too and I don’t think I’d feel too bad about it. The only mercy I’d be willing to give is the benefit of a clean head-shot.

Sorry, I’m just not going to risk getting HIV or being seriously injured or murdered for the benefit of my attacker. I respect myself and love my life too much. Not to mention it would prevent injury to future victims. I think I could live with that.

As a Christian, I have to disagree vehemently with the opinion expressed in this piece. Romans 1 clearly tells us that fornicators all used to be idolators, and, to punish their idolatry, God turned them into fornicators. Fornicators, like homosexuals, the envious, debaters, and whisperers, deserve to die:

Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but…. changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts…. For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections…. Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers… Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death…. Romans 1:21-32

I have also heard some so-called Christians say that women who are raped should also be punished as fornicators, which is ridiculous. We should not fall into the trap of blaming the victims. The Bible tells us that raped women are only to be killed if they don’t scream when they are raped:

If a damsel that is a virgin be betrothed unto an husband, and a man find her in the city, and lie with her; Then ye shall bring them both out unto the gate of that city, and ye shall stone them with stones that they die; the damsel, because she cried not, being in the city; and the man, because he hath humbled his neighbour’s wife: so thou shalt put away evil from among you. Deuteronomy 22:23-24