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I'm looking at these three products and they all seem to be about the same price but have a couple questions. I have a woodwind musical background but would like to play some tunes on a piano. I have no desire for a real teacher or classical training. I just want to play some tunes and stuff from fake books. Are these the products I should look at? Do all three use the same basic approach to teaching? I can't tell from the little info that's on their website. I've seen the Piano Guy on PBS and that looks like the style I should pursue but I'm just not sure if the other two use a similar technique.

Also I'm wondering if anyone has taken the PDF books that come with these courses to Kinkos for printing? Did they do a good job? What did they charge?

I have no desire for a real teacher or classical training. I just want to play some tunes and stuff from fake books. Are these the products I should look at?

Hi Ken,

Sorry that I can't give you specifics on the products you mentioned. But, before making any decisions, you should consider checking out www.sudnow.com

The Sudnow method is all about reading songs from a fakebook. The course starts with playing standards. You learn how to work up your own arrangements of songs. I have recently branched out to playing some easy listening pop.

Barb

_________________________
A Sudnow Method Fanatic"Color tones, can't live without them"

If I were you, I would thoroughly investigate all options. Find the right method, with the sound you want, and you will have a lifetime of joy at the piano. Check out my website for the Sudnow sound. If that it not what you are looking for, then try to find others who have studied the 3 methods you mentioned. Listen to their sound. Words are not enough in describing a method. You need to HEAR what others are learning.

Barb

_________________________
A Sudnow Method Fanatic"Color tones, can't live without them"

I hear you Dannac but can you answer any of my questions? Like I said the website doesn't seem to specific on details of the method used. How does the Pianoforall differ from Rocket. The price looks to be the same the last time I checked.

I bought Rocket Piano and returned it because it was too easy for me. I also got Piano for All and haven't used that one either. Don't know about Piano in a Flash. I didn't like SUdnow either.

You can join Willie Myette's jazzpianolessons.com for 3 days for free. He's got lots of online lessons with PDF files (which you can't get unless you join) You can join for one month, I think it's about $25. He has songs for beginners on their and a bunch of other stuff. He's the best piano teacher online around.

Someone from here also posted some free online lessons which are good. There are several free lessons on another site which escapes me.

Rocket Piano is very comprehensive of the 3 that might be the best for a beginner, and I was able to get a refund without too much trouble.

But I like to try things out. Don't you have a music store that you can check out for some books with CDs of piano lessons.

Nikalette, When you say they were to easy it might help if you can tell me what level you were at going into them. Like I said I have a music background but nothing on the piano except tinkering. I have a good ear and can pick out melody lines pretty easy but know nothing of chords and the left hand. I will say that I'm leaning towards the Pianoforall stuff.

www.learnpianowithrosa.comThere are 3 series of courses:1. Color Chord Improvisation. It's for fake book playing. It starts from the basics, but progresses with theory, song analysis, rhythmic variations, clear practice suggestions and guidance, creative improv for more intermediate players.2. Play By Ear. This is for picking out melodies and chords, from scratch.3. 7 Secrets series- "Roadmap" video course on the mindset and thinking behind playing by ear. Unique insights.- "modules" which consist of creative practice and very unique, structured approach to build up fake-book playing skills.

The website is a bit information packed, which I think is a bit of a pitfall. But don't let that deter your checking it out, as the courses are excellent and unique on the market.

I highly recommend these products, if you don't have much foundation of BY-EAR playing (theory and/or skills.) (I highlight "by-ear" because having "by-score" skills isn't quite the same thing. Only some of that is transferable to by-ear playing. There is a lot more knowledge and different skills involved, speaking from my own experience. )

www.learnpianowithelssa.comThere are 3 instructional videos (download only) right now.This is for intermediate (or at least adv. beginning) BY-EAR players. (Again, IMO, that's not the same as intermediate of adv. beginning by-score players.)If you have classical training (like I do), but knows little about chords other than the basic triads, or have little understanding about chord progressions, you are likely to have trouble fully following, learning and enjoying the GEM that these courses are.But if you have some by-ear understanding (extension/color tones, circle of fifth), then this can be PERFECT!

Nikalette, When you say they were to easy it might help if you can tell me what level you were at going into them. Like I said I have a music background but nothing on the piano except tinkering. I have a good ear and can pick out melody lines pretty easy but know nothing of chords and the left hand. I will say that I'm leaning towards the Pianoforall stuff.

I was at the intermediate level already. I've had some computer crashes so it's hard for me to look back, but I think Rocket was better than Piano for all.

Hi Guys, Rocket Piano is a good course and I recommend it to people regularly but only really for real child beginners. Piano For All by Robin Hall is a better option for an adult who has some prior knowledge of music as the starter of this thread has. It's $39.99 and comes with 200 videos and 500 audio files which is great if you're doing this without a teacher because sometimes you have to literally see something done before you can grasp it properly. At that price I think it's really good value and certainly comes in a lot cheaper than private lessons..

I own Pianoforall, Learn and Master, and I am a member a Willie Myette's Jazz and Gospel sites. Of the three, Pianoforall is by far the best value, Learn and Master has the best presentation, and Myette's has the best content. I would avoid Piano Magic--this investment was a complete waste of money. PlayPianoToday is another good source but is limited to accompaniment only.

I have read great reviews of Yoke Wong's courses. You can review her stuff on You-tube.

I own Pianoforall and I think it is great learning resource especially for the price. I mostly use it as a reference guide more than a learning guide as I'm familiar with many of the concepts presented. But I couldn't resist getting this package because of the price. The author is a member of the forums and has responded in the past to questions forum members had about his product.

I agree with dannac that PFA is best viewed on the computer rather than in printed form to view or listen to the embedded files as you encounter them in the PDF documents.

www.learnpianowithelssa.comThere are 3 instructional videos (download only) right now.This is for intermediate (or at least adv. beginning) BY-EAR players. (Again, IMO, that's not the same as intermediate of adv. beginning by-score players.)If you have classical training (like I do), but know little about chords other than the basic triads, or have little understanding about chord progressions, you are likely to have trouble fully following, learning and enjoying the GEM that these courses are.But if you have some by-ear understanding (extension/color tones, circle of fifth), then this can be PERFECT!

Thanks, Rosanna! I just want to add that the chords are all printed out in my video captions, and there are PDF lead sheets available with the videos and in my forum. I also answer all questions posted in my forum in detail. As mentioned, though, just to be clear, I don't teach the basic chords. My videos mainly demonstrate song arrangement and embellishment techniques.

When it comes right doen to it, printed books work well enough. If you are just starting a DVD might help because it can shown things like posture and hand position and shape. But most of what you need is printed music with graduated exercises. Any method book will have this. And then you put in 20+ minutes a day.

Scott Houston here to try and clarify a few things I saw in this thread as it mentions my book and/or DVD Play Piano in a Flash. Thought it best to come from the horse's mouth.

I don't have any complete "program?" or method like it seems you are discussing with Rocket Piano and the others mentioned. I have no reason not to believe they are all quality materials, though I have seen none of them personally.

I have many different things available for sale such as DVDs, my original Play Piano in a Flash paperback book, etc., but to be clear it is not a "Method" per se. It is meant for people that are interested in this non-classical style that I work with exclusively on my TV show and other materials. A big tenet of my philosophy is that unless you give a hoot about the tunes you are playing, the instruction will probably not "stick" too well. That is why everyone who uses my stuff tends to create their own path and purchase stuff that is relevant and interesting to them personally.

Someone mentioned a pdf of my Play Piano in a Flash paperback book as though the paper and ink book wasn't available... not true. That pdf is sold separately by my publisher Hyperion as an ebook for a buck or two less than the cost of the book in any major bookstore. It's not part of any "full program" I sell (nor is it public domain to be distributed freely).

The only "capital M" Method (i.e. week by week, lesson by lesson) I have is limited for use exclusively by students of my "Play Piano in a Flash Class" nationwide group lesson program offered at Host Sites nationwide. I don't want to plug the program on this forum so if you need the web address you can contact me...

Just wanted to clarify that the comparisons of the other seemingly on-line programs and mine are not really apple-to-apple. Mine is more "ala carte" and a "pure play" of the style of things you see me discuss on every episode of the TV series.

A person enquiring about my course referred me to this thread, so I'm here to find out what has been said. Although it's an old thread, it apparently is still being read by PianoWorld visitors, so it seems fair that I should have the opportunity to respond. (If I had known about it sooner, I surely would have been here sooner.)

As the author/instructor/owner of PianoMagic.com, I would like to clarify a comment above that mentions my course, because I recognize the posters screen name...and he left out a few important details.

Originally Posted By: Psalm23

...I would avoid Piano Magic--this investment was a complete waste of money...

I completely agree that Psalm23 wasted his time and money in PianoMagic, but it wasn't because I didn't try to work with him. According to his own comments (still posted and available within the PMMO Forums), Psalm23 was attempting to work through several courses at the same time, and asking questions within PianoMagic, that revealed he was not studying or developing the important principles taught in PianoMagic.

His posts revealed he was not following instructions. When he would post a question in my Forums, I would provide an answer based upon the very principles I teach. Very often, I ended my detailed responses with a few questions of my own. Psalm23 never offered a single response to any of MY questions, nor followed up with a related comment or question. Although I asked if he understood my responses, he never posted a follow-up response...EVER.

Our last communication was via email, when Psalm23 politely asked for a refund. Unfortunately, unlike other courses mentioned above, I don't offer refunds because I sell no product, so students have 'nothing' to return. In essence, I am 'the product', and members gain direct access to participate with ME for a year. Granted, there are well over 100 videos, 100 audios, and thousands of pages of written guidance posted within PMMO Forums, but ALL were created in response to members who participate 'with' me in the learning process. What's more, I continue to provide new content, and it's instantly available to ALL my members 24/7.

I won't post Psalm23's email, but I see no harm in posting MY last email to him, because it contains what I consider to be a 'common sense' and 'logical' approach to working with ANY instructor...in ANY setting that expects student participation.

Quote:

My Dec 11, 2008 email to Psalm23:"By the policy clearly stated within the public pages of [my website], which you agreed to before making your payment, you do not qualify for a refund.

Membership in PianoMagic is non-refundable, except under two conditions: 1. Inability to connect to the website, or 2. Inability to comprehend the simplest of instructions.

As far as I can tell, you have the ability to ‘connect’ to the website. (If not, I can help.) Based on your own posts within PMMO, you also have the ability to comprehend and apply the instructions…AND you have the ability to tell me where you’re experiencing difficulty.

Thus far, you have posted a total of 11 times within PMMO, and asked a number of questions. I have responded to your early questions, and followed up with FIVE questions of my own for you to answer. I’m still waiting for ANY response to MY questions.

As a member of PMMO, you are expected to interact with ‘yours truly’, so you can receive direct guidance to advance yourself into fully understanding and using the info. This IS what you paid to receive. Whether you choose to ‘do it’ is a choice. Whether you ‘do it’ for a day or a year is optional…the fee is the same.

When I ask a question, it is with the intent to learn HOW you are thinking, to determine your present understanding, and HOPEFULLY, to hear how you are able to apply the instructions. For ANY of this to occur, you must communicate. When I ask a question, I expect an answer. If your response demonstrates understanding of key concepts combined with the ability to ‘think clearly’, I’ll personally lead you to the next step. We can do it through the Forums, via email, or by telephone…your choice.

As stated in my post to you on November 8, 2008, “By design, if you do not follow instructions to participate and provide feedback, you will be 'on your own'...and the remaining options truly are "counter-productive" for BOTH of us.”

No response to direct questions asked by the instructor IS “counter-productive”, and logically results in far less guidance than you are capable of receiving. By not participating WITH ME, you will be ‘on your own’, and that’s the most difficult way to proceed. The PMMO Forums are TOO LARGE for you to find the info you seek by yourself, so if that’s what you’re doing, you’re ‘spinning your wheels’ needlessly. Not good!

Likewise, if I spend my time asking questions of a student who won’t respond, I also will be ‘spinning my wheels’. I am not a fan of ‘wheel spinning’ on any level.

Whether you continue to use it or not, you have paid for MY TIME in advance. How should we proceed?

Questions?

Mike"

I received a brief email response, but no questions or comments related to my message.

Psalm23, if you read this (and I hope you will), I notice your last visit to the PMMO members area was March 7, 2009, so you basically allowed the last 7 months of your membership to expire with total inactivity. If you should ever decide that you're willing try again - focusing upon only ONE course of study at a time - I will gladly extend your expired membership by an additional 7 months: But you would still be expected to participate 'with' me in the learning process, because that's how we 'do it' in PianoMagic. (I limit the maximum number of members for that very reason.)

I harbor no ill will, and you are free to maintain a completely horrible opinion of me and my efforts if you prefer...but I would prefer an opportunity to change your mind, by assisting you to understand the thought process you clearly missed. You are welcome to email or call me to accept my offer...or we can discuss it further if you like.

As I tell my students, there's a lot more info about playing piano 'out there' than I know about, have ever heard about, or will ever use...and I'm confident ALL of the available courses are designed around whatever ideas their creators believe to be excellent! To learn, understand and gain that excellence for yourself, you must focus upon the materials provided. If your course of study comes with a living, breathing instructor, work with that person!

PianoMagic was never intended to be the only course of study one will ever need or want...but it's the approach that makes ME the happiest when I play, and I rely upon it to keep myself in business as a professional musician (currently 44 years).

To the moderator: It is not my intent to 'plug' my course, but to fairly present the 'other side' of the story, regarding a negative comment that your readers have brought to my attention, and to offer the poster another chance to do more than waste his time and money.

When I have time, I enjoy reading the PianoWorld forums, always find the quarterly recitals to be enjoyable and inspiring...and it's especially FUN to read about the excitement folks experience when playing the music they love!

As far as I'm concerned, the world is a better place because of the musicians in it. It doesn't matter WHERE or HOW a person learns to play, but whether or not they enjoy it...so my advice is to 'follow the FUN' wherever it may lead!

Thank you for the opportunity to post my response.

Respectfully,

Mike

P.S.In the posts above, I recognize a few other screen names as former members of PianoMagic, and I hope you're all doing well! I remember that you offered wonderfully supportive and inspiring comments to help me cope with the illnesses my puppy began to experience, and your thoughts were very helpful to me.

Just to let you know, my sweet doggie 'Coco' unexpectedly died this past Sunday. If you have connections with 'the giver of life', I would certainly appreciate a good referral for 'my girl'.