We will never end horse slaughter as it is necessary. But, there needs to be changes to how they are shipped, not in cattle liners but trailers designed for horses. Laws regarding the commercial transport of horses needs to be changed. There needs to be heavy fines for horses that are found down on the floor as they were too weak to be shipped. This is not the driver's fault, but the owner's. There needs to be laws in place whereby animals can be in the trailer only so many hours and then let out to move about with good feed and fresh water. Just because they are going to their death doesn't mean the process has to start at the auction yard. That's my take on it.

Horse4Ever, your mama's story is my nightmare. I live in fear of my beloved partners being stolen in the night and treated like that. It would break my heart. The only thing worse to think about, in my opinion, is of something happening to one of my two-legged loved ones.

I've met Temple Grandin, heard her speak, and respect the sweeping good changes that she has helped bring to the livestock industry. She is a good teacher for those of us who own animals, both pets (companion animals) and livestock. I think her quote that you referenced is the essence of good animal husbandry - we need to know what makes our animals tick and what keeps them healthy and free of fear and stress for as much of their lives as is possible. This is my mantra.

So, for me, it's not a question of whether or not there should be slaughter. It is whether or not we can improve humane handling with understanding and compassion and respect for the animals for the 99.999% of their lives before that final ugly moment of death.

I totally agree with you. I think that it the whole slaughter industry laws and enforcers has to be rewritten, and I think Temple Grandin should definitely be there helping to write it :)

Actually there is a pro slaughter group that is out to hurt and cripple HSUS and Peta because we all know they have the best lawyers and lobbyist. No they don't support their agenda's they support and lobby for our agenda's responsible people..

Fact I have a receipt from a horse rescue in Arkansas called Rescue Wranglers they received a check for $5,000 on a comp rescue. The check came from HSUS.

So don't always believe pro slaughter ignorance.. they have one goal to breed, and slaughter for profits.

Fact is AQHA really cared they would support our horse bills HR2966 , and S1176 and our transporation bill HR7 which will ban double deckers totally HR7 is also support by the AAEP and the AVMA.

AQHA will only give 1 % effort and NOT funds to fools its members..

Follow the money and you will see who support slaughter..

Slaughter is a mere incentive to continue slaughter for irresponsible and criminals folks.

I admit that I am pro-slaughter. But only when done the right way (I personally think the US needs to regulate and reopen plants with the help of Dr. Temple Grandin). However I did find your paper very persuasive. Seeing as that was your goal I say well done. Just make sure that anything you say has a fact to back it up. You don't want any cracks in you argument for people to catch you off guard.

Actually there is a pro slaughter group that is out to hurt and cripple HSUS and Peta because we all know they have the best lawyers and lobbyist. No they don't support their agenda's they support and lobby for our agenda's responsible people..

Really? What's the name of the pro slaughter group? And does any organization really indentify itself as pro slaughter? Or just pragmatists?

Quote:

I have a receipt from a horse rescue in Arkansas called Rescue Wranglers they received a check for $5,000 on a comp rescue. The check came from HSUS.

Would you mind scanning that and posting it? It would be a much more effective rebuttal that way.

Quote:

So don't always believe pro slaughter ignorance.. they have one goal to breed, and slaughter for profits.

Would you care to provide some supporting evidence for these statements? I don't call myself pro slaughter, because I think slaughter is a gruesome but necessary evil. But I do support the reopening of regulated US slaughter facilities. I am NOT a breeder, and I've never made money from sending a horse to slaughter. If you look at my posts earlier in this thread, I believe I made a pretty effective argument that very few people are making money on slaughter right now; that the increased overhead from transport has made the profit margin very small and that it's only a viable business propostion at the tractor trailer load level and above.

Almost everyone I know is 'pro-slaughter' to the point that they would like to see several slaughter plants opened in the US that are closely monitored and inspected.

Not one of them wants to see a horse suffer. Not one of them has personal profit as a motive. All of them that I know want to see plants open locally so that horses DO NOT SUFFER -- so that horses will not be abandoned, starved or neglected or have to be hauled thousands of miles to be processed.

All of the neglect we see include things like people that no longer vaccinate; no longer call a Vet when the horse can be replaced cheaper; to people that abandon horses where they can be hit by cars or to horses found in back pastures starving to death.

Slaughter is needed to establish a 'floor' or a 'set in price' and to give unwanted horses a 'value' It is the loss of value that has plunged the horse world into complete chaos and made thousands -- if not hundreds of thousands of horses -- suffer or barely survive or get hauled for hours if not days to a foreign poorly monitored plant.

Absolutely no one can tell me that horses as a whole are better off after the closing of the US plants -- no one.

Absolutely no one has ever answered my question, either, that I asked some 50 or so pages back.

What do you think will happen to the 100,000 + horses that are still being slaughtered every year if the killer buyers were not there? If every plant was closed tomorrow or trucking to them was stopped, where would the unwanted horses go?

I don't want to hear what should change or what you want to see but what could actually happen tomorrow if there was not one slaughter house for these horses to go to?

I am still waiting for my first answer.
I am pro-slaughter BECAUSE I do not want to see horses suffer!

I think closing the last American processing facilities was the worst thing that ever happened for the horses and for the horse market. I think the terrible unintended consequences far outweigh any good that has been done.

I think closing the last American processing facilities was the worst thing that ever happened for the horses and for the horse market. I think the terrible unintended consequences far outweigh any good that has been done)

OH Please get educated.........Allowing horse slaughter only rewarded criminals and irresponsible people who have NO HISTORY of even helping horse rescues. You might as well legalize Crack to stop crack dealers right..

To say allowing a horse slaughter plant to control abuse and neglect is the foolish statement of the year.. You actually believe what you said.. Face it abuse and neglect will be around for life.. why should horse suffer by slaughter because of dumb humans.. Hey punish these people instead of rewarding them.. GEEZ

The only people supporting horse slaughter are the ones to cash in from it.. Auctioneers that alllow starved horses in auctions, Owners that allow it to starve, and kill buyers that you think they are doing a good deed.. RIGHT..

Their getting paid and you are the idiot supporting them.

History has shown the USDA did regulated it and all plants failed and ignored laws.. Texas even operated illegal so what do pro slaughter say about them NOT paying taxes and forking us US citizens to pay their USDA inspectors weither you own a horse or not..

YOU PAID FOR IT..

I don't see AQHA or any other breeder promoter donating to horse rescues I don't see them supporting our horse bills in congress.. They are all GUILTY..

Oh by the right Cars , Trucks, Homes, etc are at a all time low I guess in the eyes of a pro slaughter person its because of stopping horse slaughter right...

The only people supporting horse slaughter are the ones to cash in from it.. Auctioneers that alllow starved horses in auctions, Owners that allow it to starve, and kill buyers that you think they are doing a good deed

Two people posted immediately after you and said that they support reopening the US plants but don't profit from it in any way; if you read this entire thread or board there are many, many more who support reopening US facilities but reap no direct benefit from it.

So this point has been directly refuted yet you keep repeating it.

You also haven't responed to my request above to support some of the other points you've made.

It appears to me that your entire argument is based on emotion; and that when reason or logic is introduced, you start name calling.

I would welcome a reasonable, intelligent and civil conversation on this pros and cons of this subject; so far, this thread has not provided it.

I will not moderate this thread as I am currently participating in it, however, I do want to warn you that you are coming very, very close to violating the guidelines of the forum, ie, "you are the idiot", "geez what a joke". If you continue to name call and demonize people who merely disagree with you, another moderator WILL step in.

I am 'where the rubber hits the road'.I am the one the local sheriff calls when emaciated, near dead horses are found in some back pasture.

I have probably forgotten more about horses and the horse industry than you will ever know. Your tunnel vision has never seen the real picture or the entire picture.

I live 3 miles from the biggest sale in Oklahoma. I see anywhere from 100 to 250 horses go through the sale every other Monday night. Lately about 1/2 of the horses get no other bid than from the two kill buyers that are usually there. I have bought several in the past year that were 'rescued' from them as they were the only bidders other than myself. I'll bet I rescued far more of them than you have.

You still have not answered my questions.

If the plants closed tomorrow, where are 100+ horses going to go that the kill buyers are buying out of every sale? This is just one small sale in this entire country. Multiply that by hundreds of other sales.

This is the United States. You cannot take away people's property or their right to sell it. So, I hope you have a deep pocket and can 'rescue' all of the thousands of horses that have no one that wants them, will have no one to buy them and have no one to take them for free. In a few years, you could be supporting over a million horses out of your deep pocket.

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