Purple Haze wrote:And why only focus on the offensive increase in numbers, when pitchers would benefit from the use of a steroid more than a hitter would (imho)... You can get stronger, and it really not help you in baseball if you can't hit the ball to begin with ('Roids don't help with hand eye cordination).. Yet..it would add MPH to your velocity, and pitchers who were only average before now are dominating... (Hmmmm...late 60's )

You're simply wrong, and misinformed on the affects of steroids.

Bigger muscles does not make pitchers throw hard. Thats just a fundemental incorectness.

And where do you get your information that baseball players were taking steroids since "before the 50's"? We've heard just about every story of all the things baseball players were doing back then, in order to cheat....why have we never heard one story of anyone even being suspected of taking steroids?

cubsfan summed it up pretty succinctly; and a big reason you aren't going to find a lot of evidence to prove that is because a lot of evidence probably doesnt exist, and it probably doesnt exist because of two reasons 1) use may not have been substantial and 2) even if use was substantial EFFETS OF USE weren't; people go out and investigate things and grab evidence and prove things in situations where things appear to be shady: like if you see a girl with an a cup and someone says 'those are fake' you just laugh and dont give it a second thought because they probably aren't fake, and even if they are fake, the boob job was totally pointless because it didn't affect their size enough to be meaningful; but if she's rocking ddd's and someone goes 'those are fake' you think about it and want to find out whether or not that's the case and decide to go and grab a hooter and find out (except a few seconds later you decide against doing that since it isnt socially acceptable)

CubsFan7724 wrote:How about because those guys weren't about to break the holiest record in sports, the career home runs record. Theres your reason why BASEBALL fans care now.

How do you know the records weren't set while on some type of enhancement drug?

You can't and that is my point..Regardless if you agree with it, or not.. We don't know, who or when the drugs were being used, since we know for a fact they have been used for more than 50 years in our sports society....

Easy, theres far more evidence that Bonds took steroids than Aaron took horse testosterone.

Still doesn't prove that the record wasn't set under the influence of an enhancement..and that is my point

This is ridiculous. It may have, but you cant prove that it was either. And the burden of proof is on you. Case closed. You can make a legit case Bonds took steroids. You can't do that with Aaron.

Case closed...see..exactly... Run away from the discussion... This wasn't about Bonds, but of course all you guys can do is cry..Bonds, Bonds, Bonds... (This was about ALL players who have done enhancement drugs, and holding them all accountable, or none of them..Bonds is only one piece in a much bigger puzzle)

Why wouldn't you want the TRUTH? You don't think it's unfair to only focus on Bonds, when we know many, many, players have taken enhancement drugs over many, many seasons...

OK..What about Maris in 1961? Don't you think his power surge came out of nowhere, and never appeared again... Isn't that a Red Flag too?

What about all the pitchers throughout the years???

If these hitters had to face juiced up pitchers who's velocity has increased imensley, because of there use of enhancement drugs... Are you going to hold the picthing records accountable over the last 35-40 years? or does it make it fair if the majority of players were all juicing, (Picthers and hitters)? Would that make it an even playing field? Because ultimately isn't that what we are upset with..That maybe the playing field wasn't the same when past records were set, compared to the present?

Is it fair to ignore records set, because we didn't have testing in place to catch the user's? and question records that were set when nothing was actually illegal, but now is? and only punish those who haven't done anything different than what they were shown when comming up thorugh the system by older veterans..Yet we have the technology now to detect what has ALWAYS been there?

Just wanted to raise other possibilities, since NO ONE has ALL the facts..and to make an accurate assesment over a long period of time, you need to have an equal way of judging the past, and place it into context...

Purple Haze wrote:And why only focus on the offensive increase in numbers, when pitchers would benefit from the use of a steroid more than a hitter would (imho)... You can get stronger, and it really not help you in baseball if you can't hit the ball to begin with ('Roids don't help with hand eye cordination).. Yet..it would add MPH to your velocity, and pitchers who were only average before now are dominating... (Hmmmm...late 60's )

You're simply wrong, and misinformed on the affects of steroids.

Bigger muscles does not make pitchers throw hard. Thats just a fundemental incorectness.

And where do you get your information that baseball players were taking steroids since "before the 50's"? We've heard just about every story of all the things baseball players were doing back then, in order to cheat....why have we never heard one story of anyone even being suspected of taking steroids?

Actually there were congressional hearings 30 years ago on the effects of steroids in Major League baseball... Make sure you know your facts, before making statements..

Purple Haze wrote:And why only focus on the offensive increase in numbers, when pitchers would benefit from the use of a steroid more than a hitter would (imho)... You can get stronger, and it really not help you in baseball if you can't hit the ball to begin with ('Roids don't help with hand eye cordination).. Yet..it would add MPH to your velocity, and pitchers who were only average before now are dominating... (Hmmmm...late 60's )

You're simply wrong, and misinformed on the affects of steroids.

Bigger muscles does not make pitchers throw hard. Thats just a fundemental incorectness.

And where do you get your information that baseball players were taking steroids since "before the 50's"? We've heard just about every story of all the things baseball players were doing back then, in order to cheat....why have we never heard one story of anyone even being suspected of taking steroids?

Actually there were congressional hearings 30 years ago on the effects of steroids in Major League baseball... Make sure you know your facts, before making statements..

"Before the 50's" is not 30 years ago.

Try to be less condescending when you're not right. It just makes you look like a jerk.

Purple Haze wrote:And why only focus on the offensive increase in numbers, when pitchers would benefit from the use of a steroid more than a hitter would (imho)... You can get stronger, and it really not help you in baseball if you can't hit the ball to begin with ('Roids don't help with hand eye cordination).. Yet..it would add MPH to your velocity, and pitchers who were only average before now are dominating... (Hmmmm...late 60's )

You're simply wrong, and misinformed on the affects of steroids.

Bigger muscles does not make pitchers throw hard. Thats just a fundemental incorectness.

And where do you get your information that baseball players were taking steroids since "before the 50's"? We've heard just about every story of all the things baseball players were doing back then, in order to cheat....why have we never heard one story of anyone even being suspected of taking steroids?

Actually there were congressional hearings 30 years ago on the effects of steroids in Major League baseball... Make sure you know your facts, before making statements..

"Before the 50's" is not 30 years ago.

Try to be less condescending when you're not right. It just makes you look like a jerk.

it toook 20 years of use for the Congress to step in.. Your just mad because I proved my point..It's obvious players have been using, and the powers that be were concerned over 30 years ago... because for 20 years prior to that they had seen the ill effects, and decided it was time to do something....Even though they left it to baseball to clean it up, and they failed obviously..But it's been around for Many, Many years...

Purple Haze wrote:Why wouldn't you want the TRUTH? You don't think it's unfair to only focus on Bonds, when we know many, many, players have taken enhancement drugs over many, many seasons...

You really shouldn't have said "we" there.

I "know" no such thing.

That is because your to young, and misinformed

Congress thought it serious enough to hold hearings in the 1970's.. So why don't "WE" know many players were using 'roids???

You really are just an ass, aren't you?

I'm not at all young, first of all. Sticking a little smiley after making a comment like that doesn't hide the fact that you're trying to annoy me...

You said, "we know many, many, players have taken enhancement drugs over many, many seasons...".

I regard "many, many players" to be quite a lot. Heck..."many players" is a lot....2 "many's" is a boatload.

There is absolutely no reason for me to believe that "many, many players" were taking steroids ins the 50's. I think is debatebale that "many, many players" were taking steroids in the 90's, to be honest.