I hate these threads about players like Asham,TooToo and so on, that get randomly discussed, and i get my hoped up thinking the wings my actually get someone who brings some excitement.

I mean look what the Coyotes did with there group of feisty buggers, Carcillo,Weller. There fore check is scary, and the excitement of big hits, and even bigger donnybrooks. Why cant our 4th line doo that ((((

yeah you are right..as long as they are star players and are good at the game its fine for them to throw the elbows.

Chris Pronger anyone?

Think for yourself. Question authority. Throughout human history as our species has faced the frightening, terrorizing fact that we do not know who we are or where we are going in this ocean of chance, it has been the authorities, the political, the religious, the educational authorities who attempted to comfort us by giving us order, rules, regulations, informing, forming in our minds their view of reality. To think for yourself you must question authority and learn how to put yourself in a state of vulnerable, open mindedness, chaotic, confused vulnerability to inform yourself.

fans are so fickle and hypocritical. i hate tootoo, but i loved avery. if tootoo were a red wing, you'd all love him.

elemental laws of logic say it suffices to give a single counterexample tocontradict such general claim. so this is it: I personally never liked Averyand would sure as hell not want Tootoo who doesn't even have skillsAvery does and is nothing more than just a little punk who looks topiss-poor and/or injurer other teams' players

now translation into English: no, I'd not like Tootoo in Winged Wheelat all. I'd be ashamed of it. I've been through this when this team gotHatcher and Bertuzzi and their arrival to Detroit didn't change the factthat I despised both of them

Just how many Americans do you think are on the team now? So you are saying that is why the Joe doesn't sell out? again...

People were saying we have too many Europeans and Detroit fans can't ID with them.

FireCaptain - "THIS ISN'T DATELINE, BUT WE'RE HERE TO STOP A PREDATOR."Du, du, du, du, du, du, du, du, du, du, du, du,When I see you Red Wings,I go out of my head,I just can't get enough,I just can't get enough,All the things you do to me and all the things you said,I just can't get enough.I﻿ just can't get enoughWe slip and slide and we fall in love and I just can't seem to get enough of...Du, du, du, du, du, du, du, du, du, du, du, du

fans are so fickle and hypocritical. i hate tootoo, but i loved avery. if tootoo were a red wing, you'd all love him.

Not necessarily.

I used to think the same way for a lot of people if some players were on the Wings (i.e. Iginla, Kariya, et al) but some fans just don't like certain players for whatever reasons. It may not always be "right" to me or you, but it's nothing new in sports and it doesn't make these certain fans dumb or hypocritcal in that sense.

I'd be willing to set any reservations I had with Tootoo aside if he could help the Wings, but I perfectly understand why some in here might not as he definitely isn't well-liked in the league by many people.

That doesn't make me any better than other fans that might not like him or more better in the behavioral or hypocritical sense.

fans are so fickle and hypocritical. i hate tootoo, but i loved avery. if tootoo were a red wing, you'd all love him.

You couldn't be any further from the truth, based on simple logic arguments your absolute truth is proven wrong by the fact I never liked Avery, and I hate Tootoo, Ruutu, and you too.Just kidding I don't hate you I just used that for the rhyme!

QUOTE (akustyk @ January 31, 2008 - 11:59PM)

elemental laws of logic say it suffices to give a single counterexample tocontradict such general claim. so this is it: I personally never liked Averyand would sure as hell not want Tootoo who doesn't even have skillsAvery does and is nothing more than just a little punk who looks topiss-poor and/or injurer other teams' players

now translation into English: no, I'd not like Tootoo in Winged Wheelat all. I'd be ashamed of it. I've been through this when this team gotHatcher and Bertuzzi and their arrival to Detroit didn't change the factthat I despised both of them

I could not agree more if I tried!!!!

"The more I know about people - the better I like my dog." - Mark Twain

"A wise man once told me, ‘Don’t argue with fools. Cause people from a distance can’t tell who is who'." Jay Z, Takeover

"When I was looking for a captain, I wanted a guy with the Red Wings crest tattooed on his chest," said former Detroit coach Jacques Demers, who named Yzerman captain in 1986. "Steve Yzerman was that guy."

“Told him if he wasn't ultra-competitive he couldn't come here. If he didn't bring it every day he couldn't come here, because he was going to hate it if he didn't, dislike the coach and dislike playing here.

“It's real straightforward. If you don't do it right, you're not happy here." Babcock

You couldn't be any further from the truth, based on simple logic arguments your absolute truth is proven wrong by the fact I never liked Avery, and I hate Tootoo, Ruutu, and you too.Just kidding I don't hate you I just used that for the rhyme!

What about Chelios?

I've always gone with the saying "you hate playing against the guy, but you'd love to have him on your team." Even if you love him on your team, doesn't mean you like him.

I can't think of many players that I disliked prior to joining the Wings and then liked them after they became Wings. Hasek for example, I respect his abilities, but I really don't like some of the crap he does/did and I'm not a big fan of his personality. The fact that he is a Wing doesn't really change that.

I've always gone with the saying "you hate playing against the guy, but you'd love to have him on your team." Even if you love him on your team, doesn't mean you like him.

I can't think of many players that I disliked prior to joining the Wings and then liked them after they became Wings. Hasek for example, I respect his abilities, but I really don't like some of the crap he does/did and I'm not a big fan of his personality. The fact that he is a Wing doesn't really change that.

Not liking to play against a guy when he is on another team but liking him when he is on your team, is different than not liking a guy for the way he plays. Cheli is a great example of a on the edge player, he has some slight stick work and tricks he uses. He doesn't take a full on 5 stride run at a guy.Not sure if I explained myself well enough.

QUOTE (toby91_ca @ February 1, 2008 - 02:16PM)

It's funny how things change over time. Gordie Howe was a god in many people's eyes and people talked about how fierce he was throwing elbows, etc. Same with Messier back in the 80's.

Now, guys that throw elbows are punks.

My explanation: (should read as my guess)We now know what happens to players when they get elbowed in the head (medically speaking) when Howe did it, no one knew the severity of concussions and so on. Also player equipment, like shoulder and elbow pads, have come a long way, not only does the hitter feel less of the impact they have a hard exterior shell making them almost lethal.

"The more I know about people - the better I like my dog." - Mark Twain

"A wise man once told me, ‘Don’t argue with fools. Cause people from a distance can’t tell who is who'." Jay Z, Takeover

"When I was looking for a captain, I wanted a guy with the Red Wings crest tattooed on his chest," said former Detroit coach Jacques Demers, who named Yzerman captain in 1986. "Steve Yzerman was that guy."

“Told him if he wasn't ultra-competitive he couldn't come here. If he didn't bring it every day he couldn't come here, because he was going to hate it if he didn't, dislike the coach and dislike playing here.

“It's real straightforward. If you don't do it right, you're not happy here." Babcock

Found this topic from around the deadline time of 2008...super funny how these opinion's have changed! I would proudly say that mine along with a few others in this original thread had the same opinion back then as we do now! I can't say the same for some others....

Read thru a few! Some of you have wavered more than John Kerry!

Edited by LeftWinger, 13 February 2013 - 11:34 AM.

DAN WHATEVER YOUR f****** NAME IS CLEAR OR CLEARLY GET THE f*** OUT OF THIS TEAM BACK GO f****** LEARN TO PLAY MORON I PERSONALY DON'T GIVE A s*** THAT YR LEG IS f***ET UP, PLEASE LIIVE. ANF BABCOCK PLEASE GET READ OF OUR QUINESSSSSSYYYYY HOLLAND YOU JUST HIT THE JUCK f****** POTT!

Found this topic from around the deadline time of 2008...super funny how these opinion's have changed! I would proudly say that mine along with a few others in this original thread had the same opinion back then as we do now! I can't say the same for some others....

Read thru a few! Some of you have wavered more than John Kerry!

haha! thanks for a good laugh.

truth being said - a lot of my perception of Tootoo changed after seeing him play against the Wings last playoffs. and I was already a believer the moment Holland signed him - thankfully, this time I was right and don't need to change opinion again

truth being said - a lot of my perception of Tootoo changed after seeing him play against the Wings last playoffs. and I was already a believer the moment Holland signed him - thankfully, this time I was right and don't need to change opinion again

I like a few of the comments by some of his big supporters now that say, even though they warmed up to Chelios they would NEVER want Tootoo on this team.... "Not now, not ever!" quote, un-quote!

It's all funny now, and it just goes to show that no matter how much a player is hated from another team, there is a reason he is hated, he is good and he drives you nuts how good he plays against you. Pronger, Lemieux, Backes....I have a feeling that they would/would've had the same effect on the same fans that said "not now, not ever" to Tootoo...

DAN WHATEVER YOUR f****** NAME IS CLEAR OR CLEARLY GET THE f*** OUT OF THIS TEAM BACK GO f****** LEARN TO PLAY MORON I PERSONALY DON'T GIVE A s*** THAT YR LEG IS f***ET UP, PLEASE LIIVE. ANF BABCOCK PLEASE GET READ OF OUR QUINESSSSSSYYYYY HOLLAND YOU JUST HIT THE JUCK f****** POTT!