Postgame against bulls. 11/16/2013. Its just the first lost in a regular season 82 games

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Re: Postgame against bulls. 11/16/2013. Its just the first lost in a regular season 82 games

I think while we all wanted this to last 82 games we're all happy its over. Is that possible?
I know the next L wontnsuck even near as much as this one. Lets make it another 9 games from now
Great, historic run though. Our Indiana Pacers are 9-1 to start the season. Ill tKe that all day everyday

Re: Postgame against bulls. 11/16/2013. Its just the first lost in a regular season 82 games

I think while we all wanted this to last 82 games we're all happy its over. Is that possible?
I know the next L wontnsuck even near as much as this one. Lets make it another 9 games from now
Great, historic run though. Our Indiana Pacers are 9-1 to start the season. Ill tKe that all day everyday

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Re: Postgame against bulls. 11/16/2013. Its just the first lost in a regular season 82 games

I'm not sure you can ever take too much out of a night where the Bulls are THAT hot on offense (that is a statistical anomaly) and the Pacers are THAT bad on defense (that is an even greater statistical anomaly).

Rather than isolate performances in a game where everything went out the window, I'll just speak to some trends:

1. Paul George has to learn that he can't just take quarters off. I mean, yeah, he'll have off quarters here and there. But even in the Pacers' 9-game win streak, we've seen plenty of games where Paul George didn't really opt to insert himself into the equation until the 3rd quarter. It's a thin line between teamwork/sharing the ball/establishing the low post game, and being aggressive on your own right. But I'd just like to see PG24 establishing himself earlier, and getting to the foul line more often than he is.

2. 10 games in, and it's clear that we're in for a wild ride with Lance Stephenson. I think it will be more good than bad, but when it's bad, it's BAD. I'll throw offense out the window -- that's just gonna be what it's gonna be. What I'd like to see from Lance is a more concerted effort to concentrate on defense. Simply put, Lance is falling asleep and making mistakes on defense far more often than anyone else in the lineup. And it's just that, a concentration issue. Not an ability issue. He really needs to work on understanding that it's not just about driving into the teeth of the defense and shooting threes...every step on the defensive end counts too.

3. What a turnaround it's been in a year's time. A year ago, I would have been deathly concerned for the confidence of Roy Hibbert in a game like this. Now, it looked like Hibbert was one of the few players playing with confidence in this game. What a rock to have! Hibbert's consistency is one reason the odd blowout or two will never alarm me.

4. This was a good moment to remind Vogel that the robotic lineup/minute calculations may work for 90% of teams, but he'll have to get creative with the other 10%. Some games, you just can't have Solomon Hill out there like Vogel did tonight. He's not ready. I don't see wholesale adjustments along the lines of what some folks suggested -- having Copeland take Hill's minutes. But I do think Vogel needs to approach every game as a different beast, and given how the Pacers have handled business in the first 9 games (and Vogel's track record before), I think he just defaults to his pre-determined rotations a bit too often and leans on some concepts that just aren't ideally tailored to specific matchups.

5. Luis Scola still needs someone who can consistently help him score in that 2nd unit, because he is going to have off nights. Asking him to be automatic from midrange every single night is unfair. This was a bad matchup from the start -- credit the Bulls, because Taj Gibson is freaking awesome, would love to have him in a Pacers uni. But this is where either Vogel needs to get creative with rotations, or someone like CJ Watson or Orlando Johnson (pending Danny Granger's return) really has to step up.

6. Honestly, if I'm Vogel, I burn most of this tape in terms of "teaching moments". But clips I do save? Body language. PG24 is whining at refs way too much this year. It's annoying, and he's losing out on calls because of it. Some bad moments between PG24 and Lance in particular in terms of pointing at each other, blaming etc. on defense. You can attribute a lot of this game to "one of those nights", which is fine, because Pacers will have that both GOOD and BAD over 82 games. But the Pacers allowed things to snowball, and did themselves no favor, in large part because their heads weren't where they needed to be. That's the kind of stuff Vogel can and should focus on coming out of this game. Now that we've seen what a nightmare scenario looks like, how do we recover from it the next time it starts to build?

Re: Postgame against bulls. 11/16/2013. Its just the first lost in a regular season 82 games

This blowout was a huge statement game by the Bulls and ESPECIALLY by DRose. Frickin 6-8 from the 3pt line from DRose. The Bulls shot 50% from the field for the entire game......again, another statement from the Bulls.

I really can't find too many bright spots in this game. This was just plain embarrassing.

I know...move on....just move on....but I hope that on Wednesday, the Pacers humiliate the Knicks on the defensive end. I don't want this to linger and affect the Team.

Re: Postgame against bulls. 11/16/2013. Its just the first lost in a regular season 82 games

Maybe it was simply more a matter of focus, being more prepared for this game or the Bulls just "circling this game on their calander"....but the Bulls just "wanted the win more". The Pacers seemed to be caught flat footed, more clumsy out there and simply beaten at their own game.

Lance couldn't get his game going all game long. He wasn't able to "flip that switch on" like he did a few games back when you could see when he went all X-Factor on us. PG24 wasn't able to get his shot in the basket...just like in the other game.

Just like how the Bulls remembered the previous game and took it to heart this game to show that they were still an Elite Team....I really hope that the Pacers really learn a lesson from this game. They have til March 21st and March 24th to show whether they learned something from this game or not.

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Re: Postgame against bulls. 11/16/2013. Its just the first lost in a regular season 82 games

The only really significant thing to me is what the Bulls defense did to our offense. They did to us what we do to most teams, manhandle, stifle everything we were trying to do and take the will away from us.

Obviously if our defense in this game had been as good as it can be, then the game would have been different

Re: Postgame against bulls. 11/16/2013. Its just the first lost in a regular season 82 games

I'm not sure you can ever take too much out of a night where the Bulls are THAT hot on offense (that is a statistical anomaly) and the Pacers are THAT bad on defense (that is an even greater statistical anomaly).

Rather than isolate performances in a game where everything went out the window, I'll just speak to some trends:

1. Paul George has to learn that he can't just take quarters off. I mean, yeah, he'll have off quarters here and there. But even in the Pacers' 9-game win streak, we've seen plenty of games where Paul George didn't really opt to insert himself into the equation until the 3rd quarter. It's a thin line between teamwork/sharing the ball/establishing the low post game, and being aggressive on your own right. But I'd just like to see PG24 establishing himself earlier, and getting to the foul line more often than he is.

2. 10 games in, and it's clear that we're in for a wild ride with Lance Stephenson. I think it will be more good than bad, but when it's bad, it's BAD. I'll throw offense out the window -- that's just gonna be what it's gonna be. What I'd like to see from Lance is a more concerted effort to concentrate on defense. Simply put, Lance is falling asleep and making mistakes on defense far more often than anyone else in the lineup. And it's just that, a concentration issue. Not an ability issue. He really needs to work on understanding that it's not just about driving into the teeth of the defense and shooting threes...every step on the defensive end counts too.

3. What a turnaround it's been in a year's time. A year ago, I would have been deathly concerned for the confidence of Roy Hibbert in a game like this. Now, it looked like Hibbert was one of the few players playing with confidence in this game. What a rock to have! Hibbert's consistency is one reason the odd blowout or two will never alarm me.

4. This was a good moment to remind Vogel that the robotic lineup/minute calculations may work for 90% of teams, but he'll have to get creative with the other 10%. Some games, you just can't have Solomon Hill out there like Vogel did tonight. He's not ready. I don't see wholesale adjustments along the lines of what some folks suggested -- having Copeland take Hill's minutes. But I do think Vogel needs to approach every game as a different beast, and given how the Pacers have handled business in the first 9 games (and Vogel's track record before), I think he just defaults to his pre-determined rotations a bit too often and leans on some concepts that just aren't ideally tailored to specific matchups.

5. Luis Scola still needs someone who can consistently help him score in that 2nd unit, because he is going to have off nights. Asking him to be automatic from midrange every single night is unfair. This was a bad matchup from the start -- credit the Bulls, because Taj Gibson is freaking awesome, would love to have him in a Pacers uni. But this is where either Vogel needs to get creative with rotations, or someone like CJ Watson or Orlando Johnson (pending Danny Granger's return) really has to step up.

6. Honestly, if I'm Vogel, I burn most of this tape in terms of "teaching moments". But clips I do save? Body language. PG24 is whining at refs way too much this year. It's annoying, and he's losing out on calls because of it. Some bad moments between PG24 and Lance in particular in terms of pointing at each other, blaming etc. on defense. You can attribute a lot of this game to "one of those nights", which is fine, because Pacers will have that both GOOD and BAD over 82 games. But the Pacers allowed things to snowball, and did themselves no favor, in large part because their heads weren't where they needed to be. That's the kind of stuff Vogel can and should focus on coming out of this game. Now that we've seen what a nightmare scenario looks like, how do we recover from it the next time it starts to build?

Great post. This game reminded me of the streak of losses at the end of last year. The only player during that 10-12 game stretch to show up every night and give his all was Hibbert. Even when Hibbert has an off night you can tell he's still pushing himself.
PG does not always give it his all on offense or defense and that's my only gripe with him. I hate to see a player just not give the effort they're capable of. If Paul wants this to be his team he needs to lead by example and that starts with effort. I said last year and I nothing has changed, this is Roy Hibbert's team in my mind.
Lance has had 2 games in a row where his mistakes outweighed his contributions but I don't consider that an effort issue.

It's just a loss though and we know we'll have more. NY isn't going to roll over for us and every playoff team is going to try to make a statement against us as long as we're at or near the top. I am so ready for Granger to come back, I hope he plays by next Sat.

Re: Postgame against bulls. 11/16/2013. Its just the first lost in a regular season 82 games

I think they kind of rattled some of our young guys. There was a lesson here for Paul and Lance. The question is how they respond to it. Some of our wins have just been Paul or Lance taking over, but it didn't work against that defense. They will need to grow in terms of team play to handle that type of environment. Reminds me a bit of game 7 against Miami. The Bulls just came out and smacked us in the mouth and we didn't respond well. We lost all focus on what we were trying to accomplish. Lance was throwing up junk and Paul wasn't being patient. It didn't help that DRose was unconscious. I know he's good but not that good from 3.

Edit: Notice I didn't include Hibbert. Roy played a solid game and just didn't get enough help. He's been through enough ups and downs that the environment doesn't seem to affect him. Just a more mature player IMO.

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Re: Postgame against bulls. 11/16/2013. Its just the first lost in a regular season 82 games

I'm not going to read too much into the loss. I thought the Pacers simply looked fatigued. This was their 4th back to back of the season. Last night was the 2nd night of only Chicago's 1st back to back. Plus the Bulls were saving face from the 1st game beat down the Pacers put on them. More likely than not, the Bulls won't shoot like that against Indiana for the rest season. I'm still convinced that the Pacers will beat the Bulls if they see them in the playoffs.

Re: Postgame against bulls. 11/16/2013. Its just the first lost in a regular season 82 games

I'm not the type to make excuses or put blinders on...normally looking at the cup half-empty. But I do think that game last night was like the beat down we put on Miami last year. IOW, we are not that bad and I think the Bulls played the game of their season.

At the same time, the Pacers have to acknowledge that they have something to prove now and that will require more than just another regular season win against the Bulls. Even if the Pacers win the rest of the contests, the Bulls have proven themselves for the entire year with that statement win. It was too strong a statement. As a result, the Pacers will not be viewed as the better team until they beat the Bulls in the playoffs and we will not know that for months.

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Re: Postgame against bulls. 11/16/2013. Its just the first lost in a regular season 82 games

Some people say that a good offense can come and go because sometimes the shots do not fall, but good defense is there all the time.

Those people are wrong.

Our defense and our offense both disappeared last night, for long stretches.

I can't explain it, other than to guess that you cannot maintain the necessary focus every game.

The poster "pacertom" since this forum began (and before!). I changed my name here to "Slick Pinkham" in honor of the imaginary player That Bobby "Slick" Leonard picked late in the 1971 ABA draft (true story!)

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Re: Postgame against bulls. 11/16/2013. Its just the first lost in a regular season 82 games

It was the end of a back to back, on the road, against a very good team who just so happens to lie through their teeth when they say we're not a rival and we just beat them down bad. I saw this as a probable loss, but was hoping against it. PG hasn't looked as good lately and looks tired.

DRose shot nothing but 3s. That was odd to me.

There are two types of quarterbacks in the league: Those whom over time, the league figures out ... and those who figure out the league.

Re: Postgame against bulls. 11/16/2013. Its just the first lost in a regular season 82 games

It was the end of a back to back, on the road, against a very good team who just so happens to lie through their teeth when they say we're not a rival and we just beat them down bad. I saw this as a probable loss, but was hoping against it. PG hasn't looked as good lately and looks tired.

DRose shot nothing but 3s. That was odd to me.

I'm not buying that PG hasn't looked good lately when he was on Superstar mode Friday night. If he wants to be a Superstar he has to stop having this on again/off again moods..if you can't score thr night, defend and facilitate through assists. We need to give Cope minutes btw

Re: Postgame against bulls. 11/16/2013. Its just the first lost in a regular season 82 games

A lot of posters have commented on the fact that Lance and Paul couldn't "flip the switch" and get into the game, and I agree completely. I think a lot of tonight had to do with the fact that we haven't really played a team that could "take it to us" since we played the Bulls at BLF. Sure we played Brooklyn, and that was a highly competitive game, but that team is still figuring itself out with all the new additions. The Bulls know exactly who they are, and they knew how they needed to play if they wanted to beat us.

IOW, this isn't the Bucks or the Raptors. We can't try and decide to flip a switch, and think we will beat good teams. Paul has to quit looking for calls, because he won't get it against the other good to elite teams. Lance will learn that the driving lanes are a lot smaller, and the wide open 3s are less frequent against the good teams. He's cooled a bit offensively (which is fine) but he needs to maintain that high level of effort and attention on defense.

Other notes and takeaways:

tonight is a night where I want D West more involved earlier in the game.

No more Solomon hill against good teams. If you want to develop him then give him his 8 mins against the lottery teams. He literally provides nothing out there and we have capable vets sitting behind him.

Edit: As good as Scola had been, he struggles mightily against athletic 4s. Obviously Taj "the pacer killer" Gibson is a top 15 PF in the league. But Scola was just completely out played. Got to find a way to neutralize his deficiency against athletic 4s

We've gotta stop crying to the refs. We dispute every call it seems, and it only makes things worse as the game wears on. We are looking like the Hear out there, minus the flopping (Cept Lance lol)

All in all we are 9-1 and looking great against the teams we are supposed to beat. I bet we come out sharp and focused against NY.

Re: Postgame against bulls. 11/16/2013. Its just the first lost in a regular season 82 games

I'm not buying that PG hasn't looked good lately when he was on Superstar mode Friday night. If he wants to be a Superstar he has to stop having this on again/off again moods..if you can't score thr night, defend and facilitate through assists. We need to give Cope minutes btw

I think that Copeland did fairly poorly yesterday night when he got minutes....but I also feel that he was a victim of a poor rotation. In a small ball lineup where he is the "stretch 4", he has to be paired up with a defensive presense in the paint. He was paired up with Scola for the majority of his minutes.....not Mahinmi or Hibbert. As a result....I know that he's used as a stretch 4 and not known for his defense....but Gibson was able to abuse Copeland in the paint

I'm okay with him being used in certain situations....but having him not be on the floor with the right combination of Players, where he is on the floor with some 4 Man combination of Hibbert ( or Mahinmi ), PG24, GH or Lance.....is important. Having him on the floor with most of the 2nd unit where the defense is not focusing on someone that can kick it out to him won't work.

Also...what happened to Mahinmi with getting only 7 minutes in the game? Was he injured?

Re: Postgame against bulls. 11/16/2013. Its just the first lost in a regular season 82 games

I'm not sure you can ever take too much out of a night where the Bulls are THAT hot on offense (that is a statistical anomaly) and the Pacers are THAT bad on defense (that is an even greater statistical anomaly).

Rather than isolate performances in a game where everything went out the window, I'll just speak to some trends:

1. Paul George has to learn that he can't just take quarters off. I mean, yeah, he'll have off quarters here and there. But even in the Pacers' 9-game win streak, we've seen plenty of games where Paul George didn't really opt to insert himself into the equation until the 3rd quarter. It's a thin line between teamwork/sharing the ball/establishing the low post game, and being aggressive on your own right. But I'd just like to see PG24 establishing himself earlier, and getting to the foul line more often than he is.

2. 10 games in, and it's clear that we're in for a wild ride with Lance Stephenson. I think it will be more good than bad, but when it's bad, it's BAD. I'll throw offense out the window -- that's just gonna be what it's gonna be. What I'd like to see from Lance is a more concerted effort to concentrate on defense. Simply put, Lance is falling asleep and making mistakes on defense far more often than anyone else in the lineup. And it's just that, a concentration issue. Not an ability issue. He really needs to work on understanding that it's not just about driving into the teeth of the defense and shooting threes...every step on the defensive end counts too.

3. What a turnaround it's been in a year's time. A year ago, I would have been deathly concerned for the confidence of Roy Hibbert in a game like this. Now, it looked like Hibbert was one of the few players playing with confidence in this game. What a rock to have! Hibbert's consistency is one reason the odd blowout or two will never alarm me.

4. This was a good moment to remind Vogel that the robotic lineup/minute calculations may work for 90% of teams, but he'll have to get creative with the other 10%. Some games, you just can't have Solomon Hill out there like Vogel did tonight. He's not ready. I don't see wholesale adjustments along the lines of what some folks suggested -- having Copeland take Hill's minutes. But I do think Vogel needs to approach every game as a different beast, and given how the Pacers have handled business in the first 9 games (and Vogel's track record before), I think he just defaults to his pre-determined rotations a bit too often and leans on some concepts that just aren't ideally tailored to specific matchups.

5. Luis Scola still needs someone who can consistently help him score in that 2nd unit, because he is going to have off nights. Asking him to be automatic from midrange every single night is unfair. This was a bad matchup from the start -- credit the Bulls, because Taj Gibson is freaking awesome, would love to have him in a Pacers uni. But this is where either Vogel needs to get creative with rotations, or someone like CJ Watson or Orlando Johnson (pending Danny Granger's return) really has to step up.

6. Honestly, if I'm Vogel, I burn most of this tape in terms of "teaching moments". But clips I do save? Body language. PG24 is whining at refs way too much this year. It's annoying, and he's losing out on calls because of it. Some bad moments between PG24 and Lance in particular in terms of pointing at each other, blaming etc. on defense. You can attribute a lot of this game to "one of those nights", which is fine, because Pacers will have that both GOOD and BAD over 82 games. But the Pacers allowed things to snowball, and did themselves no favor, in large part because their heads weren't where they needed to be. That's the kind of stuff Vogel can and should focus on coming out of this game. Now that we've seen what a nightmare scenario looks like, how do we recover from it the next time it starts to build?

Agree with all of this! To me it says things get better when a healthy Granger is back