The last time we talked about a Camry SE on these less-than distinguished pages, the resulting article upset one of our contributors (a certain “Nurburgring race instructor”) so much that he quit the site in protest. That certainly wasn’t my intention. But I know that our hearts will go on.

Of all the comments that particular test attracted, both on and off this website, I don’t recall any of them having anything to do with a desire for hybrid power. Presumably, however, there is someone out there who wants the sportier appearance of the Camry SE and the now-legendary economy and durability of the Hybrid Synergy Drive, because now it’s possible to combine the two.
The resulting “2014.5 Camry Hybrid SE Limited Edition” will be limited to five thousand units at a price of $27,845. This represents something under two percent of Camry production for the year, so they should be an easy sell. If you have money to blow like Birdman, an additional $2215 will get you a moonroof and Display Audio.

Overall it seems like a pretty sound idea, although the virtues we discovered when running the plain-Jane SE around Shenandoah Road Course probably aren’t quite as apparent here. If any TTACers step up and buy one, we’d sure like to hear about it.

I don’t assume anything. I can go to the respective forums and see what each car will yield through the owners daily drive. I see people who think their optimystic mpg computer is king until they have a good average of the difference in hand calculation.

The Verano and Encore can and do exceed EPA and CR fuel numbers on a consistent test of all highway. Hybrids do not on the highway. The forums back it up and I’ll add some tire psi to better their reports. The FWD Encore owners are amazed by the fuel economy they are seeing I’m mixed driving on Buickforums.

It is not news that turbo-4 can beat hybrids on the highwy. Buick turbos do 40 mpg on bigger rubber than m_Toyota hybrids on 18″ wheels. Even the Encore AWD reviews by Motorweek and our very own Alex Dykes exceeded EPA highway on their combined driving, which is simply amazing today.

As I said, those are the numbers found by Consumer Reports on their non-EPA loops. Those are apples to apples numbers; all the cars are run though the same cycle by multiple drivers and the highest and lowest are dropped from the calculation.

Your anecdotes mean nothing compared to EPA or CR numbers because all vehicles would return insanely high numbers on your route if you are getting 39mpg out of an Encore. I honestly don’t understand how you fail to see that your downhill both ways commute is completely irrelevant to everyone else’s commute.

That’s funny you think highly of the Church of Consumer Reports as there is some doubt about the actual driving loop they use compared to the EPA’s publically available fuel economy testing.

Try 1,000 miles on hilly Pa I-80 through 2,500+ feet and the highest elevation on I-80 east of Mississippi to see a 28-38F cold running 37 mpg round trip in the Verano at 5+ mph over the speed limit. Can TCH best 10 mpg over EPA highway cruise? No!

I seen 39 mpg over a full tank in the Verano 2.0T for my 118 mile commute. That includes at least four cold starts and some off highway 25-35 mph zones.

Between the EPA and CR, you can get a great feel of what the vehicle will do in the real world. CR City is almost all city, CR Hwy is all highway, EPA City is mostly city, EPA Hwy is mostly highway. I also like that there isn’t the ability to “teach to the test” in the CR cycle.

Again, I simply don’t care what you get in your cars on your drive cycle. Those cars are going to get just over EPA highway on my drive cycle just like my Toyotas, my VW, my Subarus, and my MINI do/did.

The EPA and CR don’t have it out for GM, giving them unfairly low ratings while they boost everyone else like you imply every single time you post “I get infinity mpg in the new GM Besterestthingever LTZ”. Fuelly backs up that your drive cycle is an anomaly. How do you know all these other vehicles can’t blow away their EPA hwy ratings with you driving I80 for 1000 miles? You assume that everything else will only get the EPA highway rating while you use your anecdote for whatever GM vehicle you are driving this week. It sounds like you’d sooner chew your leg off than drive anything but the latest dealer demo GM that is sent your way anyway.

I’ll give you credit for continuing to toe the company line every single day. That is some high quality cognitive dissonance.

I check at Fuelly, a real-world consumer reporting site for mileage. And it’s not even close. The sample size and mileage is too small for the Encore…and I don’t really see any Verano mileage worth mentioning.

But here’s something that’s worth mentioning. The newest iteration of the Camry hybrid has a combined mileage of 39 MPG over 1.6 million reported miles. That’s extremely impressing…and a number the Buicks won’t even get close to.

TTAC is popular enough to have so-called “long tail”. In practice it means that no matter what the article is, someone, somewhere is quitting in protest. Guaranteed by the law of large numbers. Jack’s father bought JGC? Unacceptable, this is not real journalism! Alex reviewed a manufacturer-supplied car? Unacceptable, too phony! Tata revealed Bolt? We don’t need that junk! And so on and so forth, every time there’s a post. Assuming a distribution of expected lifetimes and given the post frequency, a statistician could calculate you the total number of readers required for this to happen with probability 50%, 90%, and 99%.

And the success of a car in a market on the other side of the planet is relevant how? Different government, different regulations, different buyers, different environment… different market. Your truths are not our truths.

To be fair, the odds are pretty good that TMC is also going to pull the plug on its Aussie production.

TMC has been receiving subsidies to stay there, just as Ford and Holden have been, and the recently elected conservative government does not want to keep subsidizing the auto industry. The lack of scale there would pose a problem for any automaker.

@Pch101 as usual totally false.Why do you tell “whoppers” like that when it is so easy to tell your not telling the truth? Beyond Me.
http://www.caradvice.com.au/265366/car-sales-2013-toyota-corolla-steals-title-australias-popular-car/

@Pch101 It has never been the best selling car like it has in the US. That is the BEST position it has had in Australia.Previously the Camry was 10th, when Ford was “firing”
I am correct you deliberately bend the truth.

@Pch101 From this Website Yes TTAC.
The word “Camry” does not come up
http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2014/02/you-put-your-hybrid-in-my-camry-se/#comment-2750665

“The Toyota Hilux, #3 overall, tops 3 States: Northern Territory, Queensland and Western Australia. The Toyota Corolla, leader overall this year and for the first time ever, tops 2 States (New South Wales and Tasmania) while the Mazda3 leads Victoria like in 2012 and the Holden Commodore is back to pole position in South Australia where it is manufactured, whereas it didn’t top any State last year…

Is it possible for you to post even a single comment that isn’t riddled with inaccuracies?

The Camry has never been the best selling vehicle in the US. That title is almost always held by the Ford F-series, with the Chevy Silverado coming in second place.

The fact remains that the Camry sells well in Australia, despite the fact that you don’t like Camrys. Its position in the Top 10 speaks for itself (as well as illustates your struggles with reading comprehension.)

I’m sorry that a car that you dislike is popular in your country, but I would suggest that you get over it.

@Pch101,
Inaccuracies your full of them, the Camry has best selling SEDAN in the US for the past 12yrs.You do have problems with reading comprehension the Camry is a VEHICLE and it was the top selling SEDAN Vehicle.
The top selling SEDAN in Australia has been the Holden Commodore that was the top selling vehicle for the past 11yrs. The Camry has never topped anything here. Toyota has had success with the hilux and Corolla never the Camry.

@Pch101,
“It obviously bothers you that a car that you hate is so popular in your country. But the facts speak for themselves.”
Does not alter how much you twist the wording, the Camry NEVER has been No.1. Holden Commodore, Ford Falcon,Toyota Hilux, Mazda 3, Toyota Corolla have been but never Camry. So how long has the Camry been sold in Australia? The Camry best ‘performance’ is as an export vehicle.

They have nicer pieces inside, too. It’s a small change but it makes a big difference. I guess they’re trying to do everything they can to keep this lame duck fresh before a hopefully all brand-new Camry comes out in 2015.

They did make the Camry Hybrid way more fuel efficient than when it first came out, though.

Hmmm….I always thought it was important for hybrid owners to drive a car that can’t be mistaken for anything other than a hybrid. In other words, a big part of the appeal to them is showing the world around them just how green they are by driving a Prius- or Leaf-shaped car (yes, I know the Leaf is electric.)

That certainly was true 10 yrs ago, and it may still be true. But I wouldn’t be surprised if hybrids are now being accepted for their genuine practicality than just social status. (I doubt EVs are there yet.)

“I always thought it was important for hybrid owners to drive a car that can’t be mistaken for anything other than a hybrid.”

This is incorrect. There are plenty of Hybrid cars out there where the only overt difference that would be noticed by anybody but an enthusiast is the “Hybrid” badge on the trunk, and maybe a different color badge on the hood.

I am itching to trade in my 12 Camry Hybrid LE, but I will wait for the 2015. Hopefully, they make a 15 Camry Hybrid SE.

I really like my 12. The only problem I had was the steering sucked for about the first 8,000 miles. Then, when I was thinking about getting rid of it because of the steering, the steering straightened out and now it steers great. How bizarre. It was like something needed to get broken in. Toyota needs to fix that one. Imagine how many people decide not to buy a Toyota on a test drive because the steering is not broken in.

I know a girl that drives a new Corolla, and she experienced the same. She said her steering took more like 10,000 miles.

I just dread going through that again on my next Camry … hopefully, the SE will not have that problem. I don’t know if I am willing to put up with a steering break in period. I think the dealers know this is going on, but they refuse to acknowledge it.

I am also shopping for a 14 Highlander, and I will be paying close attention to the steering. I drove an LE Plus, and it did not seem like it had the steering break in issue … but I need to do a better test drive at high speeds on the freeway … that is usually where it shows.

In 2012, I was getting ready to become a father and we were down to the Camry hybrid XLE and the Prius v Five. The chassis and drivetrain of the Camry hybrid were far nicer than the Prius. It wasn’t nearly “mileage at all costs” as the Prius was and that returned a much better drive. The XLE looks did nothing for us even though I found the SE to be quite attractive. I also did not care for the gray/black interior (I hate tan across the board). So, the wagon form factor of the Prius v won out. Had the SE hybrid been out at that time, the Camry probably would have won out… especially if the suspension on the 4cyl SE carries over to the hybrid. The 4cyl SE is a nice driving sedan as it sits. Offering the Prius v with the Camry 2.5HSD and an independent rear suspension would swing me back toward the Prius.

Toyota Hybrids typically have no steering feel. If this has an adjustable rack it might be interesting. Otherwise it looks like they’re banking on it’s exclusivity being it’s only draw just like the LFA.

So they’re willing to do this limited run of 5K units but heaven forbid they continue with a manual or even the V6 manual?! Make a really interesting SE limited edition with a stick in either 4 or 6 cylinder and actually garner a little goodwill with enthusiasts. Oh well.

Offering a new trim level on the hybrid powertrain requires no regulatory work.

Adding a manual would be creating a new powertrain combination, which would have to go through the entire certification process. Much more expensive and less likely to produce a return on investment for a few thousand units. (And even “a few thousand” is optimistic — I think a manual Camry SE would most likely sell a few hundred.)

If Honda can justify the Accord Sport, EX, and V6 coupe all at once, I’m sure there is still some semblance of a market for what Sammy wants. But Toyota’s mantra is volume at all costs, so as far as they’re concerned if you want a stick shift buy a Scion.

He was a terrible writer, so no one knew what he was talking about. Commenters were ruthless in pointing this out. My guess is he either left all butthurt, or came to an agreement with the editors that TTAC wasn’t a good fit for his style.

Jack’s antics aside, the car is designed as, and feels like, a basic transportation appliance with enough room for adults or today’s monster car seats in the back seat. The 2.5L hybrid powertrain is just plain superior for that use to the ICE-only powertrain. Quicker, quieter, smoother, and considerably more efficient, especially in stop-and-go. And all you lose is a bit of steering feel, which matters to a Camry buyer about as much as a Nurburgring time.

Well for people doing mostly highway commuting, the standard car’s 35mpg and lower initial buy-in would certainly be worth it. An LE can be had for $18k, an SE for $20k. Not sure how highly discounted hybrids are, I suspect not as much (could be wrong). The smaller trunk and minuscule pass-through could also be a factor.

As for 35 mpg highway, does anyone really have a commute where they just get on the freeway, never have to slow down, and exit at their destination? I’ve certainly never had one. Then again, I’ve lived in big cities my whole life.

I commute by bus, but if I commuted by car in a Camry I think the regular version would get 22-23 mpg and the hybrid about 35 on my commute.

“As for 35 mpg highway, does anyone really have a commute where they just get on the freeway, never have to slow down, and exit at their destination?”

I do! If living near work is not a desirable option for whatever reason, the hope is to commute in the opposite direction of most traffic, or drive during odd times. Ideally both.

For example, I used to live in metro Boston with jobs that happened to be in suburbs. I’m also in an industry that often allows flexible hours. Right now I am in the SF Bay Area – traffic is much more manageable when you don’t get in the car until 9:30. This saves me anywhere from 20-45 minutes each way. If I have a meeting or something in the morning, then I will hit the road by 6:00 and beat traffic that way.

I doubt this is common (otherwise it wouldn’t work), but commuters that see sustained highway speeds are out there. Besides, not everyone lives in congested cities.

Good point, my gf’s 2012 SE has a lifetime average of 28.1 in a very mixed commute. She’s a pretty laid back driver but not a hyper-miler by any means. The two gen 2 prius drivers I know average 38-39 driving “normal” in a mixed commute. I don’t know where a hybrid Camry would fall under the same circumstances.

We had a 2014.5 rental SE 2.5 with 15K miles and the steering sucked. It was numb and lifeless and made the car feel like it was in tune with someone using a walker with blur hair. It was also shocking how cheap the interior was and the lack of features on a car costing over 25k. If your looking for a power seat, lumbar adjustment, lighted visor mirrors, rear HVAC, exterior puddle lights on the mirrors, retained accessory power, remote start, automatic climate control, dual zone climate control, key-less ignition, navigation, telematics system, XM radio or even heated seats the Camry Se doesn’t have them. To get some of these features you either need to move up to the most pricey trim in XLE form or pay 880 bucks extra for the power seat package and over a grand more for Entune which includes a few more features. The current Camry is not a good value when it comes to interior quality and certainly not in features for price paid.

Gf’s 2012 SE has a driver’s power adjustable seat as standard. She paid around $20k new for hers, pretty good bang for the buck. Each and every new car with electric power steering has lame feel, so it’s a pretty level playing field.

Your post clearly indicate how much you know about steering feel. If being able “to distinctly and accurately feel the “bite point” where the front wheels found their maximum traction through the water…” doesn’t constitute steering feel, please enlighten us on what is. Or perhaps you were just calling Jack Baruth a liar and we’re supposed to believe that you know more about steering feel than someone who actually race cars.

Some people measure feel by weight, too. The Camrys all have light steering. I measure steering feel by how well it informs me of what’s underneath, light or heavy. (And, for the record, I prefer light steering. If I’m going to pay the fifty-pound penalty for power steering, I want to relax.)

Jack, my impression based on a couple of current-gen LE rentals is the same as ponchoman49’s. Perhaps the SE is better, but the LE’s steering was like a video game. Almost no communication from the tires. Of the appliances I’ve rented lately, only the stripper Passat SE (which was a bit scary) had less steering feel.

I just turned in a stripper Passat yesterday. I much prefer how they drive to a Camry. Old school nose heavy goes in a straight line German. Feels like an old Audi. Rode very smoothly in the lunar landscape that is the Detroit suburbs. Not remotely sporting, but very nice on the highway, unlike the Camry where it is darting all over the place. That Passat had 35k on it too.

Steering effort/weight and feel are two different things and are not necessarily linked to one another. I think a lot of people seem to think the two are connected. I agree with you that feel is not weighting but what the steering wheel is telling the driver about how the tires are gripping the ground.

Jack, I agree with you on this one. I prefer the lighter steering on the new 3-series, as an example. The feel is there, the glutinous weight is not.

But I have never had a rental Camry with decent steering. They all seem to be very darty and nervous on center, and just mush once you are in a corner. But I have had mostly LEs. And never on a racetrack.

I’m coming from a 2011 Mazda 3 hatch 2.5L, lots of steering “feel” and really fun to drive.
After reading Jack’s review on the Camry SE I said to myself “I need to drive one to see what is it all about”
Lucky me, when the Mazda went to the dealer for replacing a broken brake caliper under warranty, I was presented with a loaner car, a brand new Hertz 2014 Carmry SE that I drove for 5 days, I was really surprised, what a great car! I liked it!
But, 2 weeks ago, when it was time to replace my Mazda, I took a test drive on the 2014 Accord sport, it took me 30 min to make the deal, it felt much more car than the Camry, the engine sounds much better and in general, it feels more solid, also, the pricing was more aggressive, I’m very happy with my choice.

Will wait to see if they’ve buttoned-up the interior on the “2014.5” Camrys at the auto show this weekend. When this generation first came out, the PREVIOUS-generation Accord interior was a step above. The new-gen. Accord interior wipes the floor with the Camry’s, at least as of last year!

“If any TTACers step up and buy one, we’d sure like to hear about it.”

I won’t be buying one, BUT I did have a dream last night that I rented a hybrid Camry, so that’s just as good, right?. I was stuck in a bad traffic jam with the fuel gauge on empty, I was worried about running out of gas, and I couldn’t understand how to work the infotainment touchscreen. Would not recommend.

Since they’re trying to be all things to all people, this gives me a related idea: GM might have been able to save Pontiac if only they had introduced hybrid models of the Pontiac G6 coupe and convertible.

While dinning after Cleveland Auto show with the GF’s Toyota-loving parents I asked them what was the memorable car we sat in over the last 2.5 hours kicking tires and slamming doors? Her Mom’s response were none of them as they see a car as a transportation source. Bingo! I’ve heard of these people who like earthtone colors like sand granules and want a low base MSRP.

We did sit in the Camry, which no one was crowded around and pointed out how airy and how well the visibility the windows offered today which disappearing in modern cars. Nope, none of their kids drive Toyotas today but grew up in the 1990’s with Tercel’s and Corollas through college. Her Dad did like the Impala and really like the styling along with the base engine offering a 4-cylinder which is all they need in 25-35 mph surbubia.

I’m a little late replying to this, but I pick my red one up tonight. My wife and I commute together about 100km per day 3 days per week and put about 30,000 km per year each on two cars. The fuel economy of this model was certainly a factor, and it doesn’t look as much like grandpa’s car as the XLE models.