You Know That Empty Lot in Front of Downtown Farmers Market? Town Homes!

Click to embiggen plans for the town homes on the lot across from Dallas Farmers Market

​On and off in recent years there have been several attempts to fill that vacant lot across Marilla from the Dallas Farmers Market, and each plan has gone nowhere. Which is why I got interested when I saw this: This morning the Farmers Market TIF District Board of Directors met to discuss something called the Farmers Market Square project. I called the Office of Economic Development for more info, and Karl Stundins, area redevelopment manager, confirmed: Yup, this is supposed to go in that lot, fingers crossed.

Stundins says it's a 110-unit, 236,900-square-foot town-home project spearheaded by Houston developer Frank Liu of InTown Homes, who hopes to plant "moderately priced" for-sale properties on the lot -- which is more or less one of the centerpieces of the Downtown Dallas 360 plan.

"We worked with Brent Brown at the CityDesign Studio to look at the site plan and street elevations, and they did a lot of modifications to get to this point," says Stundins, who sent the conceptual renderings you see above and after the jump. "We also looked at Downtown Dallas 360 and looked at that site as more moderately priced. The land's expensive, which makes it harder to do for-sale at really, really inexpensive [prices]. But the units will be priced at the lower end of what's for sale downtown."

​The reason it's on the Farmers Market TIF board agenda: Liu, who expects the development to run around $33 million, is seeking $3 million in TIF incentives, which the board suggests the city council approve after it returns from summer vacation. (It'll go in front of the Economic Development Committee before the whole council espies the project.) Stundins says of all the projects proposed for the cite, this one "seems like it's going to happen, and they're looking to the city for support from the TIF district. It's contingent upon that."

If Liu gets the TIF incentive, he would expect to begin building by the end of December, with completion date set for September 30, 2013.

But Stundins knows there will be objections; he's already heard from folks who want to know why the project doesn't contain a retail component, or at least a live-work piece on the ground floor. That was part of a previously planned project set to go on the site, but Stundins says it's much more difficult to demand that with a town-home development.

"The city overall has a larger
concern with Farmers Market," he says. "The city wants to privatize it, but we only
got one bid, and retail's difficult down there. You don't want to put in retail if
nobody shops there. Marilla, because of City Hall Plaza, doesn't really go anywhere.
Eventually we'll have to look at: Is there a better way to use our
resources with Farmers Market and what's the appropriate amount of retail space.
There's more work we have to do.

"And it's difficult, because if you look at
the space, 20 percent is allocated to shopping and 80 percent to storage
and trucks. The question is: For downtown land, is that the most efficient use?"

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I think this is a spectacular project for the Farmers Market area. Nice to see them get their TIF funding. :) From what I hear it took MONTHS to finally reach this stage and to finally get in front of the board.

Almost got it right. Remove the five foot setback from sidewalk, add front porches and awnings for shade and remove the grass. Its hot! We need shade between the street trees and front of building. One watering hole in the area would do wonders too. Instead of cash we could offer removing three lanes from South Central Expressway and converting to real estate. This would improve return on investment to developer and mixed income housing choices downtown. The "expressway" only has 12,000 cars a day at that location. Most of the time it is vacant and acts as a barrier. That amount of traffic can be carried on two lanes. Heck we might even get a square if we incentivized with free land.

Given the lack of development that has occurred in Downtown Dallas since 2006 (that's right, it's been five long years of inactivity), the City and TIF District should not be too picky. Personally, the thought of $400k townhomes that close to "The Bridge" doesn't make any sense to me.

Most efficient use? The city would rather use farmers market for homeless and supportive housing. That is why nobody is there. Keep the crime rate high so nobody will move there. The city does not care about tax paying citizens or property owners. There were other interested bidders for farmers market, but the city was not cooperative in giving bidders the information they needed (financials, operating, management control) to bid.

This will be walking distance to the Atmos Lofts, Statler Hilton and old library, which are all supposed to have a retail component in the future. Does everyone really need to live above their own Starbucks and wine bar?

Mr. Stundins- "The city overall has a larger concern with Farmers Market," he says. "The city wants to privatize it, but we only got one bid, and retail's difficult down there. You don't want to put in retail if nobody shops there. Marilla, because of City Hall Plaza, doesn't really go anywhere. Eventually we'll have to look at: Is there a better way to use our resources with Farmers Market and what's the appropriate amount of retail space. There's more work we have to do

Karl, you are partly correct, you only recd one bid from an unqualified bidder - is not because of the lack of surrounding development - at least not totally, the City recd only one bid from an unqualified bidder because the city's expectations for financial results are not achieveable nor are they realistic and you relied on the Cobb connection to be the savior.

Development is part of the answer but the larger issue is getting read of all of the vendors at DFM save the producers..........And closing the Bridge or moving it from the area.

I am guessing the developers for this residential project see DFM as the buffer between them and the Bridge.

I have long felt that the city hall building should be turned over to private investors to convert into a convention center hotel. That would make two world class convention center hotels! It is time that the city government was moved over next to the levees of the Trinity River so that they will be the first ones to drown when they break.

There are already several successfull townhome projects in the Farmers Market area. Intown Homes' project across from this one is practically sold out. And that's after they bought it from the developer whose half completed project in that location didn't sell at all. A few years ago, the Perry Homes townhouse project south of the Farmers Market apartments, was incredibly successful as well. My point is, this area seems to do well for townhomes and judging by how quickly the current project sold, Intown knows what they're doing. If enough bodies are in the area. retail will follow, but why force it? Right now, the Farmers Market eateries all close early anyway, and after the market closes the area is pretty dead....minues the homeless making their way to The Bridge.

So if they get the TIF funds, hard/soft costs (including developers fee, interest carry, etc - which in actuality is probably NOT all included in the number) comes to $30MM. Assuming the units are priced at cost + 10%, + 6% in sales commissions = roughly $35MM all-in. Divided by 110 units = $320M-ish each. From your article, each unit averages 2,154 SF, so total asking price = ~$150/SF. This seems pretty reasonable I suppose, although I have no idea how much someone will pay for a townhome in that area. Anyone have any ideas?

Retail "can effectively be activated"???!!!!. I hope NOT. Retail MUST be included in this project. Otherwise, we are office parking this project. We might as well call is "Frisco am Downtown" or "The Plano Glens". We must stop segregating people, transportation and businesses. We can all cohabitate. Its worked in most of the world for hundredths of years.

Kourtny Garrett, senior vice president of Downtown Dallas Inc., would like to add this comment:

"We here at the Downtown Dallas, Inc. world headquarters are thrilled to see this project moving forward. As you said, Robert, it fulfills many of the 360 goals for the area. In terms of the concern over the lack of retail - I'd just like to point out that ground floors can be effectively activated with residential as well - picture Boston-style stoops and such. The developers have been very amenable to working with the Design Studio to ensure this happens, and with the amount of retail absorption we need in the Farmers Market itself (ala Shed 2), a pure residential land use is the most feasible at this day and time. We hope to see families, playgrounds and pocket parks fill the area to complement the market."

So, we put millions into the Farmers' Market and operate it at a loss, and we put millions and millions into the Bridge, and are committed to doing so for the foreseeable future, and now we have to offer public money to get anyone to do "private" development across the street.

Hopefully Dallas Farmers Market will get turned over to this group as well.............let the private sector have total control over the Dallas Farmers Market to partner with their development. This way, the developer can ensure their project is not degraded by what the City of Dallas in not able to do, namely complete the vision for DFM and stop letting the inmate vendors at the DFM run the asylum.

Both the Mosaic and Third Rail Lofts opened in 2007. Joule Hotel opened in 2008. The Merc and Aloft Hotel in 2009. Canton Townhomes last year and this year. 400 Ervay (old post office) opening this year.

Cost + 10%? If that's all they are going to get, nobody would take the trouble to do it. I'm thinking they're going to be aiming much closer to the $200sf level. Not that they're going to get it, or will even admit it now while they talk about moderate prices for the units, but that seems a lot closer to what they will be aiming for.

Retail follows rooftops. Gotta get the rooftops before the retail, unless we feel like subsidizing empty retail spaces/boring chains and that becomes self-defeating. One of the keys is creating flexible/adaptable ground floor spaces where the use can evolve as the market does while still engaging the street. From the renderings it is difficult to tell if this has been taken into account.

Not every single parcel has to be mixed-use for a neighborhood to be mixed-use, and that's what the real key is - neighborhood diversity. There are other places within walking distance for the residents of the neighborhood where retail can be located, i.e. the Farmers Market itself. The Farmers Market Neighborhood Association is supportive of this project and we look forward to seeing that vacant land finally filled.

"Cost + 10%? If that's all they are going to get, nobody would take the trouble to do it."As I stated, I am assuming that the development fee is already included in the development cost estimate provided in the article. My 10% estimate is pricing wiggle-room. You are suggesting they will ask ~$430M per unit. How does that compare to the others that have sold around Farmer's Market? I know I can get a 5-7 year old townhome in State-Thomas for that price.

If the people need to shop, they can just get in their cars and drive as it is going to be a long while before a commercial shopping district takes shape in the central Dallas area. That district seems to be developing along a sliver to the east of the Arts District, Uptown, and CityPlace areas. In the meantime, to convert that downtown city hall building into another convention center hotel, move the city government over west of downtown next to the Trinity River Levee. That should keep them occupied and their noses out of the business of what retail is needed in the Farmers Market area and how to create it.

there's a portion of the units that have to be built by 2013 because the TIF expires 12/2013. All of the public improvements in the ROW have to be complete along with 40 of the 108 townhomes to get the money. There's no way they would finish all 108 of them by then.