Now I hope to go back and watch some of the newbies who interest me, like the Spanish dude.

I am so SO PROUD of Javi!! He's been improving each year so much, his stansing in every competition justgoing up, up and up, hopefylly it will keep going like that.

I'm so happy for Brian as well, for skating better than he did in Vancouver. It must be hard also at the Pallavela, he didn't have nice memories from that place either.

And EXTREMELY happy for Dai, after coming back from that injury...had he skated like this in Vancouver, the story would be sooo different, or even if he hadn't gone for the quad, but it doesn't matter, he's GOLD!!

That's a valid concern and many people have wonder about that. The rules are the same for everyone though and everyone knows what they need to do to maximize their chance. KVDP not doing a 3rd combination is his own fault for failing to take advantage of the system. So there is no question of bias or judges favored Chan or biased towards him in the TES because that part of the marks is 95% objective. It is what it is. That's how an established skater like Oda could fail to qualify for the FS because the TES is fairly objective and that makes Figure Skating a sport. Without the TES, this may as well become a big show. I feel fairly confident when the outcome of the competition is determined by the TES as they are today knowing that this portion of the marks is very reliable and the rules are the same for everyone.

But Wally the issue is that while the base value of elements IS objective. There is also this thing called GOE and that is NOT objective. Chan gets high GOE because he does transitions into his jumps and high PCS for his transitions, isn't that a bit much? I personally feel its all a bit to much.. The reason I say this is we see Patrick getting this huge scores here, and at the Olympics for messy, messy skates. And he has yet in international competition to land 3 triple axel passes in one international competition? Lets not even get into quads.

Is it really asking to much that a men's champion be able to land a triple axel consistently? I don't want to see Kevin Vanderparen or Kevin Reynolds at this point winning competitions with their weak basic skating skills. Joubert is not a weak basic skater. But I also don't want to see people who can't do the more difficult jumps dominating men's singles either.

And as for well Kevin V's combination opened up two jumping passes, that is true. But here's the thing Kevin would have had the same base value if he did a single 4toe, a 3sal/3toe, and a double axel/3toe. In fact if one of the combinations was in the later half of the program, he would have gotten a HIGHER base value. Now of course he was unlikely to get the huge GOE he got for that incredible 4toe/3toe/3toe. But I think when you look at what I'm saying you can agree that the base value thing is ridiculous. As it is ridiculous that Plushenko's base value would have been the same if he had done a 4toe and a double axel/3toe in the long. Sure everyone knows the system, but that doesn't mean the system is right or fair.

Daisuke winning was the best thing to happen to men's skating in the long time. He won with whole package-and attempting a 4flip. That's the direction the sport needs to go. Not where its a bad idea to attempt things like 4toe/3toe/3toes because you'll get the same reward if you go an easier route.

I'm just tired of hearing that in men's singles skating-being an all around skater doesn't include having great jumps. While this isn't figure jumping, jumps are a HUGE part of the tradition of men's single's skating. The all around skater should be able to pull of the hard jumps, hard spins, and hard footwork. Like Daisuke tried to do tonight.

Chan did land three 3A passes at Worlds 09, but the combo in his LP wasn't clean.

If the combo wasn't clean, than that's not a clean 3A pass is it. Close is now cigar and seriously Mao can do clean 3axel/2toes. Although I will give Chan credit that his 3axel seems to have truly improved.

Geez, I was sure you were kidding - or maybe having another one of your dreams

So would you say that Miki and Kevin V. are also similar since they both excell at jumping

No, Rachael is equivalent to Kevin V, they are both strictly jumpers who are great jumpers but lack speed and don't have the best spins, flexibility, etc. Miki is fairly fast and has pretty good spins and flexibility in addition to her jumps, I would compare her more to Joubert.

I can never make such connection. Sasha has the most beautiful lines and grace like a swan. Where is Chan's? To me, his LP is just so so in choreography. His skating is amazing in terms of using edges, but his entire body lines and expressions are totally burried into this pool of extreme talented skaters. His hands are extremely annoying actually. Except his edges which people have used as a fashion now, nothing is special. Johnny Weir is much closer to male Sasha Cohen.

Anyway, no matter who's camp everyone's in, I believe Takahashi won with no dispute. So Takahashi saved the day! I can imagine what would be like if Chan won.

A little sad for Joubert. But at least he's on the podium again, and he's happy.

I started this earlier and got sidetracked, hence some outdated comments.

0. My goodness, this thread took a turn for the poisonous.

1. Daisuke Takahashi: In one of the posts here people listed their favourite programs of the season. The only man to get a consistent, high total for both programs was Mr. Swan Lake himself (Abbott and Oda had the SP and LP of the season, individually. Yu Na Kim had a lot of support for Gershwin, but Bond dwarfed it by about twenty-five votes). Takahashi: the first Japanese male to win gold at Worlds and also the first Japanese male to medal in Olympic Figure Skating. What else can be said?

How about this. He goes for a quadruple flip despite the fact that the system doesn’t reward it (or more accurately, the ancillary bonus in PCS is basically negligible with him), despite the fact that it’s hugely risky. And despite the fact that he’s been back after a year long break. Why? To challenge himself. To push himself. And he nearly lands it (UR? Who cares at this point). In a season with a lot of teeth gnashing about it being a funeral for quads, moreso than Plushenko or Lysacek or Chan or Abbott, this is the guy who’ll inspire the next group of figure skaters. In 2026, there’ll be people competing at the Olympics in ... (insert city of choice) who’ll cite Takahashi as the reason they got involved. They’ll mention the wonderfully choreographed trip in “La Strada” or the dazzling dance in “Swan Lake” or the confidently sensual Tango. Maybe they’ll mention that cool flip he opens his program with.

2. Patrick Chan: Reflecting on Chan’s season, I’m more and more impressed with his silver medal here (and I’m fine with him winning silver. Ideally, it would’ve been bronze, but Brezina’s still got a ways to go). Think about it: a major injury in an Olympic season that sets back training by months; losing his coach a month before the biggest event of his life; the pressure of a nation proudly tubthumping its “Own the Podium Program.” Of course, if this was anyone other than Chan, we’d be commenting on what a remarkable accomplishment it is to win second Worlds medal in only three seasons.

But Chan’s divisive. So let’s concentrate on the positive. Despite these things, he still committed to a massively difficult long program (if he had dumbed down the transition going into the triple loop, he likely would’ve landed it). He committed to a level four footwork sequence despite the fact that it’s worth less than a triple toe (seriously, check it out. Tell me if you think that’s a fair assessment of their difficulties). So, what now? I hope he takes a page from the champion’s book and pushes himself. Get the quad. He doesn’t need it, but it’s a good thing to possess nonetheless. Challenge himself to explore new arenas musically (I know he loves Lori Nichol, and so do I frankly, but maybe ask Kurt Browning for a program in the future?). And contradicting myself, perfect POTO. Work on those jumps and nail them so people don’t dismiss him so readily (as if improvement is impossible at this stage – see Lysacek and Buttle). Take a course in media management. I know, it won’t quell the volcanic bile hurled at this youngster, but it’ll make it easier for his fans to love him. Now, all we have to love is what he leaves on the ice. Thankfully, that’s a lot.

3. Brian Joubert: You know, I gained a lot of respect for him as a competitor these two days. I don’t love his skating – I don’t even like it very much. But to come back from such a disasterous outing that we saw in Vancouver? To have a five time World medalists have to do a test skate just to see if he could go to Worlds? An injury disencumbering his season? Those things couldn’t have been easy. So to see his strength of character and his will out there on the ice.... amazing. Two quads? Awesome.

4. Michel Brezina: The old guard better watch their backs, the kids are coming and they will devour them whole. Is he perfect? Nope – he’s gotta work on his speed and his programs aren’t as cohesive as the top skaters. But 4th at his first worlds? Awesome. Those jumps? Incredible? That CONFIDENCE? Divine.

5/6. Jeremy Abbott/Adam Rippon: Rippon following his two junior golds with a sixth place debut? Wonderful. Abbott’s highest placement in an ISU competition since 2007? Pretty cool indeed. Three spots for the USA? Perfect.

7. Samuel Contesti: I won’t deny it – I really wanted more after his breakthrough season last year. Okay performances on home ice, but I thought he would be a darkhorse medal contender. Oh well.

8. Kevin van der Peren: 4-3-3. 19 points with one element. Wowza.

9. Adrian Schultheiss: Yeah, I don’t get this program. I don’t like Prodigy’s music in general though, but surface weirdness does very little for me.

10. Takahiko Kozuka: Is he a headcase? Silver in Russia, off the podium at NHK, fine at the Olympics, meltdown here.

11. Kevin Reynolds: Proof that the quad bonus for PCS is real. Because really, that hair alone should lower his Performance/Interpretation scores.

Also, cool to see Fernandez’ growth (I sorta hope he does for Spanish FS what Kim did for South Korea’s). Amodio’s still very cute and I look forward to see where he goes next. Ten needs to re-evaluate his competition/training regime. Voronov might consider retirement because it’s clear who the Russian Fed is backing.

Patrick Chan does not excel at ALL the non-jumping elements of figure skating. He has great choreography and transitions, yes. But he is NOT a great performer. His skating is robotic, he is stiff, and he makes little or no connection with the audience. Chan was definitely not at his best this season, and he wasn't all good at Worlds 2010, particularly in the performance and interpretation areas. I do not think he deserved the ridiculously high PCS scores he received in SS, PE and IN. He should have been about 8.1 in SS, 7.90 in PE, and 7.8 in IN.

When Takahashi is on and in top form, he does excel in ALL elements of figure skating, including jumping and non-jumping elements, and he was in great form at Worlds 2010. IMO, there should have been a much greater point spread between Takahashi's and Chan's PCS scores, especially in SS, PE and IN.

Takahashi will probably successfully defend his title next year at Worlds in Japan. I wonder how Chan will feel being a bridesmaid yet again.