EDITOR’S NOTE: This article by the author originally appeared in BurbankNBeyond. This and the interview with Councilman David Gordon, are the final articles in a series researching the introduction of a proposed pet Sales and Breeding Regulations Ordinance that may potentially eliminate the sale of commercially bred dogs and cats in the City of Burbank.

BurbankNBeyond requested interviews with city council members to learn and publish their positions and opinions on the topic, issues, and proposed ordinance. Vice Mayor Gable-Luddy and Councilman Dr. David Gordon agreed to discuss the issue with BurbankNBeyond, other council members and the Mayor did not respond to requests for interview.

The interview segment with Councilman Gordon is the final in this series. You can read Councilman Gordon’s interview to gain a different perspective and viewpoint on the issue.

Vice Mayor Gabel-Luddy: The issue is about mill puppies. Puppies that are purchased from known puppy mills or factory breeding facilities. There is a critical distinction to make. Nobody is against adopting or selling puppies from reputable breeders, but I think the community, the residents, through their testimony (at city council meetings), their letters, and their petitions, have made it pretty clear that they are in opposition to perpetuating puppy mills by purchasing puppies from those kinds of breeding facilities.

But they’re not opposed to having puppies.

The community made a very clear point of that during our last council meeting (16 Oct).

BurbankNBeyond: How did you get involved?

Vice Mayor Gabel-Luddy: I brought it to council at the first step for consideration by council as a whole. It was brought to my attention by Burbank residents. Any council member can introduce an item for additional discussion and possible action.

City staff then brought a report to council for discussion on whether to proceed or not.

BurbankNBeyond: Within the city, how big a problem is this (puppy mill discussion)? Is this a big enough problem that it really justifies this much attention and emotion for discussion by the Burbank City Council, as well as the residents of Burbank?

Vice Mayor Gabel-Luddy: Well the residents of Burbank have really spoken up and they themselves have said they want this kind of business stopped. And frankly it’s about the humane treatment of, in this case, dogs.

As long as there is demand for puppies from puppy mills there will be factory breeding facilities. While it is clear they are not (commercial breeders) in Burbank, I think it is pretty clear the community has said we don’t want to be participants in this inhumane practice.

There are no breeding facilities in our community.

BurbankNBeyond: What impact will this, a single community have in the long term objective in stopping puppy mills?

One of the most impressive things that I think can happen is people at the grass roots level, and that may be an individual neighborhood, or an individual community starts to take action.

It’s by that kind of community by community action that we finally see an effect at the state or national level. Rather than look at this as a city by city thing, I think, my experience has been that it is extremely grass roots.

People are recognizing that breeding a female over and over and over again with multiple litters on an annual basis, in the conditions that have been documented.

If you look at the materials presented you will see this is factual information. I think grassroots is good.

BurbankNBeyond: Should the federal government take a more proactive approach to the issue?

Vice Mayor Gabel-Luddy: It is always good to approach your legislators, whether local, state, or federal and ask for a strengthening of laws or reinforcement of laws.

I don’t think any of us would argue with that.

The only focus on the City of Burbank is focusing on the community. I am certain that the direction we (City of Burbank) take on this that it will gain the attention of state legislators.

BurbankNBeyond: Should I have the right to adopt or acquire any puppy I want, a husky puppy, or a malamute puppy?

Vice Mayor Gabel-Luddy: There are a variety of sources for acquiring puppies. And there has never been any problem with buying them from a reputable breeder, or adopting from a rescue, or adopting from a specialty breed rescue.

There is no problem acquiring a puppy from a breeder if you are seeking a particular breed. There are plenty of reputable breeders who breed those kinds of pure-bred dogs.

What I’ve been impressed with when you go to someone who is a reputable breeder is that first of all they do not “sell” their dogs. Secondly they interview the people who are considering buying puppies. And thirdly they make the potential buyer very much aware of the temperament of the dog to see whether or not the owner understands what’s required, and if it’s the right kind of dog.

It’s a much more one on one understanding. Many of the reputable breeders will require the buyer to spay or neuter the dogs.

BurbankNBeyond: Do you have a position on puppies bought or sold over the Internet?

Vice Mayor Gabel-Luddy: There are so many legitimate breeders in Southern California that I’m surprised someone wouldn’t just take the time to see the litter and meet the parents, see what kind of facility they are being raised in, and conclude their purchase in that manner. That seems like the most humane thing to do.

BurbankNBeyond: What happens if this ordinance passes?

Vice Mayor Gabel-Luddy: I think it may result in some business changes for stores which sell mill puppies. But I don’t think it puts them out of business. And it doesn’t preclude them from buying puppies from reputable breeders, or acquiring puppies from an adoption or a shelter.

I think it will resolve concerns raised by the community.

I wouldn’t say this is a Best Friends (Animal Society) driven discussion. If it was a Best Friends driven discussion you wouldn’t have the hundreds of letters, petitions, and letters to the editor.

BurbankNBeyond: What do Burbank residents need to know about this issue prior to the next council meeting?

Vice Mayor Gabel-Luddy: It is very important that residents come to Council, or communicate with Council and let them know their position on this (discussion). It is important that residents continue to educate themselves on what the alternatives are, and it is important that residents speak out.

If residents continue to show up as they have in the past that that they are demonstrating to all of us that they want to put an end to this inhumane kind of treatment to animals.

I think our community should know that our staff reports are coming out usually a few days before the Council meeting, and should be available by next Thursday.

Just like people have weighed in on the Internet, I think it is important to continue the dialog.

During the last community meeting on October 16th there was a preponderance of evidence that Peggy Woods (Pet Emporium) has purchased puppies from puppy mills, that the (puppies) came from Missouri, and that the violations (if you look at the page), that there was a USDA record of violations if you look at the facility that occurred at the time one of the dogs was there (dogs offered for sale at Peggy Woods).

So it seems to me there is a preponderance of evidence that they would have bought (Peggy Woods) from puppy mills.

From my point of view that’s not an ethical business practice.

BurbankNBeyond: Why do you think Councilman Gordon would be so reluctant to support the issue or community’s position?

Vice Mayor Gabel-Luddy: After all the presentations were done (at the end of the October meeting) I asked everybody on council, all of my colleagues, members if the presentation by Ms. Rizzotti’s (Shelly Rizzotti, BurbankCROPS) changed anybody’s mind about how they felt about things. Because her research was so specific, and from my point of view so impeccable. And I know Mr. Golonski (Mayor, City of Burbank) answered me, but Councilmember Gordon did not.

So I don’t know. It seemed to be clearly the community desire to change the business model of that (sales of commercially-bred puppies) that practice here in Burbank. Which I applaud.

We raised the possibility his son worked at Peggy Woods, and I think he admitted as much. So I don’t know.

EDITOR’S NOTE: This interview was originally published by the author at BurbankNBeyond. This and the interview with Vice Mayor Emily Gabel-Luddy, are the final articles in a series researching the introduction of a proposed pet Sales and Breeding Regulations Ordinance that may potentially eliminate the sale of commercially bred dogs and cats in the City of Burbank.

BurbankNBeyond requested interviews with city council members to learn and publish their positions and opinions on the topic, issues, and proposed ordinance. Vice Mayor Gable-Luddy and Councilman Dr. David Gordon agreed to discuss the issue with BurbankNBeyond, other council members and the Mayor did not respond to requests for interview.

This interview segment with Councilman Gordon is the final in this series. You can also read Vice Mayor Gable-Luddy’s interview to gain a different perspective and viewpoint on the issue.

BurbankNBeyond: can you give us an overview on your position regarding the sale of commercially-bred puppies in Burbank?

Councilman David Gordon: Well I have done quite a bit of research since this whole issue came up. As far as I can understand, there is no disagreement with me as far as, in any legal way, to put an end to the so called puppy mills. And I think we need a good definition of that.

If any breeder, if in the process of breeding these animals involves having (them) subjected to harm, or unsafe conditions, unhealthy conditions, we don’t think any reasonable person would oppose (shutting them down), I wouldn’t oppose that.

The concern I have is the approach being taken, and I can just give a few things that I’ve learned.

First of all if they should ban the pet stores, what it’s going to do is drive the sales of dogs underground. It does nothing to improve the welfare of pets whatsoever. It doesn’t impact the puppy mills, whatever the definition is. Because the non-pet stores that are not regulated will obtain the dogs directly from puppy mills. There is no obligation to reveal, and no obligation that has any impact on the puppy mills..

So that’s one thing.

The other thing is where the dogs come from. There are thousands and thousands of dogs being imported into the United States. I do have some information from various reliable sources that there are literally hundreds of thousands of dogs being imported from Mexico, and other countries for sale in the current retail market.

But when they come in, even if it is from outside of California, they still have to comply with the Polanco Act which calls for various vaccinations and health checks before they are marketed with warranties and guarantees to the purchasers of the dogs.

So the other problem with this, and the reason that is so important the Polanco Act is so protective to the public, is that these imported dogs often – and this is by the CDC (Center for Disease Control) in Atlanta with articles published on this, is that they (imported dogs) carry with them diseases, such as new strains of rabies that are not common in the United States which have basically been eradicated. And other exotic diseases that aren’t really obvious at the puppy stage.

Although there are laws about importing dogs that haven’t had certain vaccinations in that country – apparently there is a loophole with very young puppies which are often what is most in demand.

So there are some very severe and significant potential health consequences which I wasn’t aware of when the issue first came up which I think need to be considered by the council in passing any ordinance. Because whatever the situation is now I don’t think anyone would want to make the situation worse in terms of public health, above and beyond pet health and safety.

So that’s something I’ve learned.

Another thing is, you know, I think if there is going to be any regulation as far as where these dogs come from, I don’t understand why, and I don’t see why, any group that provides dogs should be exempted, whether it is a non-profit organization, or a rescue group, any party that is providing dogs, you can’t just put it on puppy mills, you should have to reveal the source of where the dog comes from, and the fact that it has been properly processed through health procedures with vet’s inspections and such prior to putting it out to the public.

I think this is very important, and I am very concerned that this is provided in an environment with no regulation.

There are ways I think, and I have to wait and see what our city attorney has to say, because she has some comments that she was going to provide to us, I have to wait and see what her take is on the legality of various recommendations, but I don’t see why that we couldn’t as a city, couldn’t have a regulation to prevent dogs knowingly being sold from sources that are not properly attending to the animal’s welfare, or have any other ulterior motives for providing unhealthy dogs.

I don’t think there should be a blanket proscription in saying anyone who breeds dogs and sells them is a puppy mill. I don’t believe that’s the case.

I also don’t believe it’s the case, as has been stated, you can simply adopt the pure bred dogs of your choice. I don’t buy there are readily adoptable pure bred dogs of the particular type those (people) may want.

I certainly don’t think any decision should be made in a hurried or rushed way, in an emotional way. I think it is a valid concern that folks have about the welfare of all animals.

The question I think is more what is the best way to do it (protect the welfare of animals). In my case, as a government official in Burbank. I’m not worried about what they do in other states, because I can’t control that.

But I do have a say in what happens in Burbank. So I am interested in the best solution that achieves as much as possible the goal making sure dogs and cats that are sold in Burbank are healthy, from reputable breeders. We should do that.

I’m on board with that.

BurbankNBeyond: Given all that’s happening in Burbank, do you believe this topic justifies the amount of time being spent on the issue given all the other activities the Council may be spending time on?

Councilman David Gordon: No, not at all. I think that it is of importance, and for some people it may be more important, but there are some very significant matters that are facing the council and the city. There are public issues, there are safety issues in terms of the police and fire department we are dealing with. There are budgetary issues, there are infrastructure issues that affect people’s health and safety, we must maintain our streets and our sewers and whatnot, we have to ensure issues with our schools are addressed; there are a number of issues I believe supersede this on the priorities list.

That doesn’t mean this is something that shouldn’t be heard. The overarching effort that I’ve seen put forward, I would welcome the input from any of these folks on any of the other issues that are affecting the city. And I haven’t seen that.

Many of these folks that have come and spoke or written, I’ve never interacted with them before. But judging by how energetic they are with this one particular issue, I’d hope they’d see other city and social issues where we’d welcome their input.

BurbankNBeyond: What do you think the final decision will look like?

Councilman David Gordon: I have no idea what the final ordinance is that is going to be proposed. I would hope that any ordinance will be one that every council member could support. Not only rational, but that it makes sense in terms of protecting the public across the board.

Not just for a particular group that has a particular idea of the way it should be, but we have to look at the bigger picture. I would think my mission on the council, my charge of the council I should say, is basically to see what’s in the best in the overall health and safety of the community.

And that takes into consideration what would happen to the imported dogs that are now going through traditional sellers, going through health checks as opposed to totally unregulated black market provision of animals.

So when you talk about what the ordinance will do, I don’t think any ordinance in the city of Burbank is going to stop any problems associated with illicit or inappropriate dog breeding across the country. It may send a message of some sort, but what the message is, and how effective it is, I really don’t know.

I’ll wait to see what ordinance is presented to the council to consider and act on.

BurbankNBeyond: What do the residents of Burbank need to know about this, and what do they need to prepare to engage in the discussion?

Councilman David Gordon: I think the residents of Burbank could somehow be informed that there are proposals being considered by the council that would take away the ability of pet stores to sell cats and dogs other than those which are somehow obtained by adoption.

Their ability to purchase a particular breed by going into a store and selecting it from a display or ordering it will be eliminated.

If they (Burbank residents) are OK with it – fine. If they are not OK with it, I would hope they would come on down and participate in the dialog I am sure is going to take place at the council this week.

_________________________________

EDITOR’S NOTE: The Burbank City Council Meeting Agenda for 28 January is posted, and has the following materials available for public review and download:

COUNCIL AGENDA – CITY OF BURBANK

TUESDAY, JANUARY 29, 2013

5:00 P.M. – Council Chamber, 275 E. Olive Avenue

Introduction of Pet Sales and Breeding Regulations Ordinance – Community Development Department: Recommendation: introduce AN ORDINANCE OF THE COUNCIL OF THE CITY OF BURBANK AMENDING TITLE 5 OF THE BURBANK MUNICIPAL CODE TO PROHIBIT THE SALE OF ALL DOGS AND CATS BY A RETAIL PET STORE.

Note:This is part three of a series on the issue of pet stores selling puppies in Burbank (California), whether the city should prevent sales of puppies in Burbank, and a greater issue of animal abuse through the distribution of puppies produced in “puppy mills.” The series was originally posted at BurbankNBeyond by the author.

By John SavageauBurbankNBeyond

As of January 2013 there is only one remaining pet store selling puppies in Burbank. That is Peggy Woods Pet Emporium. Another pet store, Millennium Pets, stopped selling puppies in 2012, although they still sell birds, reptiles, and pet supplies.

Interviews with pet store owners, including Ira Lippman from Peggy Woods Pet Emporium and Vahe from Millennium Pets indicates animals rights groups, including BurbankCROPS and Best Friends Animal Society have put tremendous pressure on their operations, with frequent visits by members who informally inspect their facilities, subjectively documenting conditions within the facility for use in either discrediting or exposing violations within the shop.

Other pet store owners, including Anne Gaffney at Pet Haven, insist pet stores can do just fine without selling puppies, and the number of rescues available, or dogs from local breeders eliminate the need for pet stores to ship in puppies from puppy mills in the Mid-West.

As Peggy Woods Pet Emporium is the last pet store in Burbank selling puppies, Ira Lippman has the most to lose from any city council decision that may prevent sales of puppies at pet stores in Burbank. BurbankNBeyond did an extended interview with Lippman to get a better perspective on his position regarding the issue of puppy sales, puppy mills, and the motivation of animal rights groups which oppse his business model.

BurbankNBeyond: Why do you think this whole issue came up?

Ira Lippman: There are a number of reasons. One, there is a national issue with some of the humane groups that just don’t want puppies to be sold. They just don’t feel that animals should be sold.

So they use many tactics. The one that’s carrying this is the Best Friends Group. And they (animal rights groups) are doing it state by state, local by local, to stop the sale of puppies. They go to communities without pet stores and go to communities with little resistance and get the city councils to pass ordinances just to stop the sale of puppies.

They have their own agenda in that they do (pet) adoptions. And they bring animals from other places to find homes in these communities.

Our Burbank shelter does not have excess animals. We don’t have a problem in Burbank. They (Burbank Animal Shelter) “lottery” animals, so people (who want to adopt) are often disappointed.

We feel people deserve to have a choice in where they get their pet.

BurbankNBeyond: So an organization like Best Friends, are they saying that if I want a husky puppy, that I don’t have the right to purchase a husky puppy?

Ira Lippman: They are saying they don’t want you to purchase it in a pet store. They are saying they want you to adopt animals. They don’t think you should be getting pure breeds, unless they have them for adoption.

They do a service that is a nice service, but not everyone wants to get an adopted animal. There are differences of opinions.

When you raise a puppy in your home it develops the fabric of your family, its personality, the characteristics that it has.

BurbankNBeyond: But what about the high numbers of animals being euthanized, over population, those issues raised by the animal rights groups?

Ira Lippman: They (animals rights groups) blame this over-population on the pet stores. Our puppies never end up in the shelters. They (regulators) know where our puppies go. We are not the problem.

BurbankNBeyond: Is there anything nefarious about the animal rights groups?

Ira Lippman: I don’t like the idea they don’t want me to be in business. They are part of this greater idea that people shouldn’t be able to buy pets. They challenge pet ownership. They feel people should just adopt them.

I’m OK with adoption. We support a lot of adoptions. I think it is a really nice thing. But why shouldn’t we have choice? In America we deserve choice.

If people don’t want to buy a puppy it’s OK.

We are part of the community. We provide programs for middle school kids to come and get service hours to walk puppies and learn to take care of them and socialize them.

BurbankNBeyond: What about puppy mills?

Ira Lippman: It’s an emotional issue. This whole puppy mill issue. I don’t support puppy mills. They are substandard breeders. Many of our dogs and cats (that we sell) come from our community. We don’t just get our puppies from professional breeders, we also get them from local community members. We provide a service to find a home for puppies they have.

We don’t have a problem in our community. This group (Best Friends) came into our community to push their agenda. They go to lots of communities and push their agenda. They rally people, and they want you to adopt their animals.

BurbankNBeyond: What do they get out of it?

Ira Lippman: Well they make money. It is a multi-million dollar organization. They get donations, they get fees for doing whatever their business is, they get fees for whatever. They get to work under the umbrella of a non-profit.

I don’t have a problem with people going to (local hobby and small) breeders and get a puppy. I don’t have a problem with that. It is not easy to find a breeder to get a puppy. You don’t know if that is necessarily a good puppy to buy. Depending on the breeder you go to most breeders have no regulation.

So what happens when you take away a legal vehicle for people to buy something? You go underground. There are huge Internet and street corner sales of puppies. The people want to have a pet, and if you don’t have a vehicle for them to buy it they find it somewhere else. There will always be a source.

Those groups are not regulated at all. The adoption organizations also have no regulations at all. None.

All the state and local laws are exempted to the adoption groups.

If they sell a puppy and it gets sick you don’t really know what that puppy is going to be like. You don’t really know the history. You are stuck with it, and you have no recourse whatsoever.

We (pet store owners and professional breeders) are a highly regulated industry. For example in California we have the Polanco Act. We abide by it fully.

Excerpt from “Polanco Act”

The Lockyer-Polanco-Farr Pet Protection Act requires pet dealers (i.e., retail sellers of more than 50 dogs or cats in the previous year; not including animal shelters and humane societies) to have a permit, maintain certain health and safety standards for their animals, sell only healthy animals, and provide written spay-neuter, health, animal history and other information and disclosures to pet buyers.

If after 15 days from purchase a dog or cat becomes ill due to an illness that existed at the time of sale, or if within one year after purchase a dog or cat has a congenital or hereditary condition that adversely affects the health of the dog or cat, an owner is offered a refund, another puppy or kitten, or reimbursement of veterinary bills up to 150 percent of the purchase price of the puppy or kitten.

Burbank Animal Control does a monthly inspection visit to the store, and we abide by all laws and regulations. We don’t have a problem.

BurbankNBeyond: Where do you think this is going to go in Burbank?

Ira Lippman: I don’t know. They are very, very vigilant group that are backing this policy. They go from town to town, they are a profession, they have huge budgets to make this happen. They rally up the people, put pressure on the council people, and people get emotional about it.

But we don’t have a problem in Burbank. And I try to explain, “why chase business away from Burbank?”

We (pet shop owners) are not causing the over-abundance of animals in the pet shelters. Again we are highly regulated. Even as much as how we keep the animals in our store. How we sell them, where they come from – everybody know the parents, what their birth dates were – those things have to be (on a )5 page document with a written guarantee. At least three veterinarians have seen that dog before it ever goes home.

The puppies come (to us) in a beautifully outfitted transportation facility (provided by Hunte Corporation). They are all independently housed and they have a controlled environment. They have 24 hour care. They drive straight through from wherever they are coming from (Hunte’s distribution facility is in Goodman, MO).

Their facility, you can see it online, is beautiful.

I believe Hunte wrote a letter to every city council person and invited them to come see their facilities. And for them to base their decisions on facts. These groups (animal rights groups) don’t let facts get in their way.

They are really savvy. They have training in warfare. They’re good at what they do. I understand that.

BurbankNBeyond: What do you expect from the upcoming debate at the city council meeting?

Ira Lippman: We are hoping the council makes their decision based on factual information

Lippman claims they do not buy puppies from mills. He noted staff from his store had visited breeders, visited the Hunte Corporation, and were satisfied both were providing a safe and healthy environment for puppies. In addition, he has the ability to view and select puppies online through the Hunte website, ordering only those animals which meet the following criteria:

Meet their specific requirements

Come from “approved” breeders

Have a complete audit trail and documentation

If they find an animal that is provided by a breeder which is not on their “approved” list, they will go through the USDA website and check for compliance or violations prior to placing an order.

BurbankNBeyond: Do you ever procure puppies from local sources?

Ira Lippman: Yes. In the past 60 days we have offered puppies from at least five different litters, including a St. Bernard litter and a Maltese litter.

Lippman continues that it is not always possible to get the breeds needed for their customers via local breeders, and thus they need to go to a company such as Hunte to procure the animals ordered by local customers.

BurbankNBeyond: If we acknowledge the reality of dogs being euthanized in shelters, and the reality of abuses in puppy mills, what should we, as an American society do to solve this problem?

Ira Lippman: Of course we need to start spaying and neutering our pets. The trend nationwide is a reduction of animal euthanasia due to better public awareness of the need to spay and neuter animals, and eliminate unwanted litters.

We need to force the federal and state governments to enforce laws regulating breeders. Puppy mills need to be put out of business.

BurbankNBeyond: What will happen if the city council determines we should stop the sale of puppies in pet stores?

Ira Lippman: We will adapt. However, this is the United States. Don’t we have the right to have a choice? This is not only a matter of protecting the interest of animals, they (city council) are also making a decision protecting the rights of the citizens of Burbank.

The Burbank City Council is planning to discuss the pet store issue at an upcoming city council meeting. The issue is to consider enacting a law or ordinance such as recently enacted in Glendale (Ordinance #5748) which states “no pet store shall display, sell, deliver, offer for sale, barter, auction, give away, or otherwise transfer or dispose of dogs or cats in the City of Glendale on or after the effective date of this Chapter.”

BurbankNBeyond encourages a healthy, open debate on the issue, and for citizens and residents to contact their city council members to inform them of your position, concerns, or recommendations prior to making an decision on the issue of preventing puppy sales in Burbank.

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John Savageau’s Profile

John Savageau is a life long telecom and Internet geek, with a deep interest in the environment and all things green. Whether drilling into the technology of human communications, or describing a blue whale off Catalina Island, Savageau will try to present complex ideas in terms that are easily appreciated and understood.

John Savageau is President of Pacific-Tier Communications based in Honolulu, Hawaii
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