Lately I've heard the same as Flandersson mentioned, 12 hours.
BUT, I think it would be possible if you do this:
1: Kill bosses to reach hagara
2: 1 rogue and 1 other runs out of the instance and leaves the raid
3: Those 2 create a raid, and the rogue goes in and pick pockets Hagara (as they'd be in their seperate instance, it might work).
4: The other rogue left in the "mainraid" pickpockets Hagara in there.
5: The 2 that left rejoins the raid and goes into the instance where the rest of the raid is, and both rogues have their rings.

This is obviously assuming that you have 2 rogues in the raid only, if you have more you just make stage 2 & 3 more times (obviously should be able to do this simultaneously).

But yeah, I'm not sure if this actually works, or if it will work, but unless I've missed something about how raid lockouts work, it seems like it should work imo.

I have a couple quick questions for those who have worked on the questline on the ptr.

1. As of now are there any prereqs to being able to pick up the initial quest in DS? I read on one thread that you must complete all three of the new 5man dungeons to gain access to the quest. Is there any truth to this? Have any of you picked up the quest without completing them? I would think this would cause problems if servers come up late on the initial patch day, and being unable to get all three dungeons done before raid.

2. I've also read that the 12 hour timer on the 'Hidden Message' quest has had the requirement to be online for the entire duration removed, and it now charges while you are offline. Have any of you seen this and confirmed this?

Lately I've heard the same as Flandersson mentioned, 12 hours.
BUT, I think it would be possible if you do this:
1: Kill bosses to reach hagara
2: 1 rogue and 1 other runs out of the instance and leaves the raid
3: Those 2 create a raid, and the rogue goes in and pick pockets Hagara (as they'd be in their seperate instance, it might work).
4: The other rogue left in the "mainraid" pickpockets Hagara in there.
5: The 2 that left rejoins the raid and goes into the instance where the rest of the raid is, and both rogues have their rings.

This is obviously assuming that you have 2 rogues in the raid only, if you have more you just make stage 2 & 3 more times (obviously should be able to do this simultaneously).

But yeah, I'm not sure if this actually works, or if it will work, but unless I've missed something about how raid lockouts work, it seems like it should work imo.

Leaving group and pickpocketing Hagara under a separate instance ID will reset her trash and you'll have to clear that trash.

Originally Posted by patcherke

There are only 3 differences between a 1.8 dagger and a slow 2.6 weapon of the same quality: the speed, and as a consequence the min and max damage.
Sinister strike is based on these min-max values, and not on the speed, but the speed influences these min-max values if you consider a fixed DPS value on the weapons.
That is why the damage of these abilities was increased by 45%

As far as my thoughts go, I think MG dps doesn't really change if you compare a slow to a fast weapon.
since the MG proccing is percentage based, you will get 44% more hits (2.6/1.8 - 1), but for 44% less damage each, but the total DPS will be the same on that part.

Or am I overlooking something here?

Instants. While autoattack-based MG dps won't be much different, instants will still have the same proc chance but do less damage without weighted blades, making the dagger-based MG procs overall weaker. I don't think the extra energy from the more frequent MG-CP procs will make for enough extra special abilities to overcome the damage difference.

The best solution, imo, needs to be somewhere between 0% and 45% increase to MG damage. 45% is too much given the mechanics of combat's mastery, but 0% will make the mastery weak with the daggers.

This, however, is purely conjecture on my part. I haven't done any back of the envelope calculations to verify it, so take it with a grain of salt.

@Shadowboy:
Hagara's got trash? when did this happen? And where will they fit the trash in EoE without players pulling her while doing trash?

She's always had trash as far as I'm aware. The trash just wasn't active when she specifically was being tested. It's in the form of a gauntlet, sort of, she opens portals around the platform at intervals which spawn waves of trash.

She doesn't dismount from her flying disc and become active until the trash is cleared.

We have 3 rogues run our 25 mans, is it going to be possible for all 3 to pickpocket the ring on the same reset by resetting the instance once the 1st 2 boss's are down, or is a weekly raid lockout type deal?

She's always had trash as far as I'm aware. The trash just wasn't active when she specifically was being tested. It's in the form of a gauntlet, sort of, she opens portals around the platform at intervals which spawn waves of trash.

She doesn't dismount from her flying disc and become active until the trash is cleared.

Correct. That and she is not targetable while trash is present so you can't pick pocket her until the trash is cleared.

Originally Posted by Seph666

We have 3 rogues run our 25 mans, is it going to be possible for all 3 to pickpocket the ring on the same reset by resetting the instance once the 1st 2 boss's are down, or is a weekly raid lockout type deal?

You may be able to get all 3 rogues the decoder ring via either soft resets (or an intentional wipe--not sure if a wipe will reset her pickpocket loot), or you could clear up to her, generate 3 10-man groups, clear her trash, pickpocket, then reform your 25 man group for the real attempts.

That I do not know the answer to. All I've seen of DS on the PTR is the LFR difficulty and even then only 1 run. Trash was there and active so I am assuming that it will be true in 10 and 25 man. I could pickpocket the boss in LFR but could not loot the ring since they've now disabled that on LFR on PTR, but after wipes I was able to re-attempt the pickpocket, but given the nature of the error ("you are ineligible of looting on an encounter you've already defeated in this lockout blah blah blah, workaround I assume), it's hard to say exactly how it'll work in 10 man.

I'd imagine they are gonna put in some sort of built-in throttle to prevent multiple rogues from getting the daggers at the same time, without slowing down legendary progression for ALL of them.

Correct. That and she is not targetable while trash is present so you can't pick pocket her until the trash is cleared.

You may be able to get all 3 rogues the decoder ring via either soft resets (or an intentional wipe--not sure if a wipe will reset her pickpocket loot), or you could clear up to her, generate 3 10-man groups, clear her trash, pickpocket, then reform your 25 man group for the real attempts.

That I do not know the answer to. All I've seen of DS on the PTR is the LFR difficulty and even then only 1 run. Trash was there and active so I am assuming that it will be true in 10 and 25 man. I could pickpocket the boss in LFR but could not loot the ring since they've now disabled that on LFR on PTR, but after wipes I was able to re-attempt the pickpocket, but given the nature of the error ("you are ineligible of looting on an encounter you've already defeated in this lockout blah blah blah, workaround I assume), it's hard to say exactly how it'll work in 10 man.

I'd imagine they are gonna put in some sort of built-in throttle to prevent multiple rogues from getting the daggers at the same time, without slowing down legendary progression for ALL of them.

I've actually wondered if theres maybe something opposite intended. I haven't done 25 man raiding on the PTR very much but I've heard reports that at least at one period, the shadowy gem clusters were dropping twice per boss on 25, and once on 10. One way that could go would mean 25 man will still gain them twice as fast, another way could mean 25 man can build 2 as 10 man builds 1, which would be much fairer in terms of dps/raid size since 25 mans are roughly twice the size of 10 mans.

So possibly something like a 25 man guild will finish two sets as a 10 man guild finishes one set. That way you'd be looking at mostly the same completion time, but 25 mans wouldn't be gimped by the fact because they'd retain the same completion ratio. That's entirely speculation based on 3rd party rumors though.

Quoting Ashvael;

Currently Elementium Gem Clusters give 4-8 of these gems when opened.

10man raid bosses in Dragon Soul will drop 1 cluster and 25man bosses will drop 2.
Currently there is no difference between normal and heroic kills regarding the drop rate.

so yeah, my interpretation of that is that building two at once may be fully intended for 25 man.

does anyone on the PTR know if combats mastery procs can "proc" a stack of the agi buff? as this would seem to balance them a little more as combat would in essence have more chances per minute to proc the agi buff and balance the fact it's finishers are slightly lower.

does anyone on the PTR know if combats mastery procs can "proc" a stack of the agi buff? as this would seem to balance them a little more as combat would in essence have more chances per minute to proc the agi buff and balance the fact it's finishers are slightly lower.

It says it procs of melee attacks, so I would assume it does.

People can be whoever they choose to be on the internet - It is strange that so many people choose to be stupid.

every time I see someone mentioning the word "rouge" I get the urge to say "yes, we are overpowdered"...