Hey, I'm absolutely fine with freedom of religion.
you should have absolute right to believe whatever the **** you want.
But once your people are trying to pass laws that limit my rights based on YOUR interpretation of religion, then **** you, that's not freedom of religion.

Separation of Church and State was intended to prevent religion from dictating government and government interfering with religion. In it's current form it is a blatant overreach of it's original intent. i.e; Banning students from mentioning "Christmas", attempting to remove historically significant "9/11 Cross" from the WTC memorial.

I'm not saying it does.
I'm saying that right now there is more push of evangelical christians to... well inflict their own set of beliefs on the rest of us by making them into laws, then there is goverment overreach to push christianty out.

They were pretty explicit. The First Amendment guarantees that there be "No establishment" of a state religion or doctrine. The same damn amendment guarantees freedom of speech and freedom of religion. It's insanity that they could apply that to censoring people from using religious speech.

Yeah, People in general seem to pick and choose to support their point. Either way, Laws that take rights away from people based on religious beliefs are unconstitutional. Just the same is it unconstitutional to punish people for their beliefs. As for the wtc memorial thing, I could see arguments both ways. I have no qualms with religious things as long as they don't hurt others. (Butthurt doesn't count)

I can see that, it's definitely a significant monument, and even though I'm not christian, I have no problems with it being there. However, based on the rule in question, it is a religious symbol on government property, which is a bit iffy. Also, there are people out there who get easily butthurt over things, and if it was a muslim/jewish/pagan symbol, I doubt it would be treated the same way.

Not all Christians judge people immediately off of one aspect, I know a lot more tolerant Christians than judgmental ones. We do have our views however such as homosexuality being immoral, and abortion being murder, but I know more Christians that overlook these traits and actions than judge upon them. This is because we know that everybody sins... if a few choose to judge don't say all Christians judge. As for bringing religion into law, we do do this I'll admit but usually we make it the broader subjects (with exceptions, of course).

But your people pass public judgement and feel self righteous in doing so. That is not okay socially or morally by any means. They, as an establishment, do these things I have listed unto the public and our nation, and that is the thing that our nation was founded to be against.

Explain to me the horrors of the peace loving, humanitarian Buddhists. Their disagreement with the harm of any animal to the point of nursing them through age and death instead of mercy killing them. Their acceptance of all men and women who wish to learn to change themselves for the better. I am sure you're right about that one.

The problem to this very second is your refusal to acknowledge that your information is irrelevant to current times, which was the topic and still is. I could say to you that your ancestors were a form of ape as an insult, and it would be equally relevant.

Oh, I certainly agree. But I dont really see Christianity as being worse than any other religious or other social grouping. I dont really have a problem with any group as long as they arent murdering people. It seems pretty benign.

I see it as more of a problem here because of the massive popularity of it, especially among those who write laws into effect. The fact that banning gay marriage is even a thought is a testament to how malign the misinformed Christian can be. I am not trying to attack the religion, honestly. I am just saying that people taking two thousand year old doctrine out of context and relevance and writing it into law whilst simultaneously oppressing small groups is just not okay.

I am all over the first part of this in particular. I have nothing against Christianity in and of itself, I just see it as a threat to my continued ability to live in a country that is not unduly influenced by the views and beliefs of a theocracy I do not subscribe to.

I don't want the bible or anyone who lives and breathes its teachings to be anywhere near the legislative process. If a politician can't separate their duty as an American with their feelings/beliefs as a Christian (or any other religion, really, Christianity is just the biggest offender at the moment), they have no business being a politician.

Buddhists in East Asia slaughtered, tortured and condemned others for not being Buddhist.

Explain to me the horrors of the peace loving, humanitarian Christians. Their disagreement with harm of humans to the point of making it a Commandment that we don't kill our neighbor, harm our neighbor, or even desire what our neighbor has; more over, that we love them.

Get the picture?

Take it from a guy who just finished a level 3000 Sociology class in medical school, if there's one thing I learned it was that every single group in history has said one thing and done the opposite at one point or another.

I can get my books out and we can talk about this all night, they are literally 3 feet away from me in my book bag.

How about we discuss the Crusades? Or, maybe Catholics aren't "Christian enough" for you. We can talk about the Inquisition.

Or, we could talk about social effects upon modern society. That Dalai Lama sure has a horrible effect on the world, just like the Westboro baptists or our corrupt government which world polices based upon the principles it draws from a two thousand year old doctrine despite the initial founder's ideas of freedom and separation from policing their own nation with the beliefs of any single religion.

"Explain to me the horrors of the peace loving, humanitarian Christians. Their disagreement with harm of humans to the point of making it a Commandment that we don't kill our neighbor, harm our neighbor, or even desire what our neighbor has; more over, that we love them. "

Then commit the Crusades

Buddhists have done the same, along with every other organization, faction or religion known to man. Saying "That Dalai Lama" has no bearing on my previous comment, you can take any passive religious leader, "That Pope Benedict XVI"

Well I understand that you are embarrassed, and know you are wrong and I am right. I also understand you should have used a semicolon instead of a comma. It's going to be ok magmon. Even though I know your stubbornness does not allow you to admit you are wrong now, you will use it correctly from here on out.

Yes, internet preteen, you must be right. I am also positive you have taken advanced classes in both literature and religious history. Use of belligerence in the stead of argument makes you right in all occasions, as you attempt to frustrate people into simply giving you the instant gratification you can afford no time to achieve in actual value.

Well I understand that you are embarrassed, and know you are wrong and I am right. I also understand you should have used a semicolon instead of a comma. It's going to be ok magmon. Even though I know your stubbornness does not allow you to admit you are wrong now, you will use it correctly from here on out.

Well I understand that you are embarrassed, and know you are wrong and I am right. I also understand you should have used a semicolon instead of a comma. It's going to be ok magmon. Even though I know your stubbornness does not allow you to admit you are wrong now, you will use it correctly from here on out.

So you were wrong about Religion, and you embarrassed yourself a little about grammar. You will get over it.

Not all Christians do this, fewer do this than don't. Your basing your whole view of Christianity upon the few Christian groups that do. We don't go marching down the streets calling out everybody for their sins, we do not go about publicly judging others as wicked or evil. Those "Christian" groups that do (such as WBB and others alike) are looked down upon, even by the mass Christian followers. We do not go strutting around with our chests puffed out thinking boy, I'm glad I made these people feel bad. The Christian faith as a whole doesn't do this, minor pockets that have strayed a bit do.

The government does this based on their Christian faith. Laws are being written based upon a religion, and we are designed and formed to be against that. And if you have ever heard a judgement of a group or act in church, then you have spoken against people who themselves are human beings. That is feeling superiour. Condemning anyone for who they are is damning in itself. More Christians are self righteous dick heads than are sensible and intelligent about their judgements and beliefs. Not to say that Atheists are the nicest people in the world, but at least they don't tell a man he is burning for eternity for the simple fact that he prefers men. At least they don't tell a woman she is burning for eternity for aborting her rape baby/baby she cannot support/baby whose birth could kill her. She should not be subjected to judgement because you have NO IDEA what is going on with her. gays should not be judged because they WERE BORN gay, and no higher power would create men for hell fodder. Your religion is judgmental and offensive to society who does not agree with them.

The government doesn't have a Christian faith. And once again you are basing upon the single groups rather than the whole. Christianity is not about judgement, and the mass followers know that. We do not pass judgement upon one being gay or having had an abortion. We ARE understanding about circumstances. If the baby will cost the mother her life and a C-Section won't help, we understand. Rape on the other hand, that would be punishing for the sins of the father, put the child up for adoption, let them have a chance at living life. I know many, MANY Christians who has defended homosexuals against the slurs directed at them from others. We do not judge, not Christians as a whole, people that are Christians will judge, just as people who are atheist, Buddhist, Calvinists, and all other possibilities will judge. The people who do yell and preach hell and brimstone upon those who are homosexual are usually of a small group, such as West Borough Baptist, and the Christian mass looks down on them, though they call themselves Christian. As for passing judgement, are you not passing judgement upon the Christian mass for the actions of the minority?

Saying that Buddhists will judge is the ultimate representation of your ignorance. You are wrong, and I hope you will research why and into what you believe and what others believe before you judge the majority based upon the beliefs that your small group may share.

I'm not saying Buddhists judge, I'm saying there are people who identify themselves as Buddhists who will judge. Everybody does judge another at some point, I'm not saying Buddhists judge because they don't as a whole. I'm not saying atheists judge, because as a whole they don't. Same with every religion, belief, and political view.

You are mistaking practitioners of a religion with believers. Just because someone tells you they are of a religious following does not mean that they are. You, for example, know very little in terms of actual Christian faith or general knowledge with which to back up your arguments. All you say is "People can be different and stuff" without identifying the problems with such a following and the problems that are farther reaching. You can not say that people don't judge because they as a group do not when their doctrines in themselves judge more often than men with the title of Justice, and you cannot tell me that Buddhists are judgmental when their entire doctrines and teachings are to love and accept people and to better the world as best they can for the benefit of all living things. I am only trying to help you to see and to learn. The world is not always so you have been told, and I only wish for each person to develop their own experience and knowledge through self dedication.

Look, I am not mistaking practitioners for believers. I'm simply saying that everybody does judge, even Buddhists. But that doesn't mean the whole religion is based on judgment. And I have identified the specifics with backings.
Also I'm saying they do judge, everybody does. But the Christian faith isn't about judgment, just as Buddhism, atheism, etc. is not about judgment. The Christian faith is about forgiving, accepting, and overall believing. I never said that Buddhists are judgmental, I don't know where you keep getting that I did. I know they aren't, but there are followers who have judged (VERY few, yes) others. For everybody does judge at some point. As for wishing all to develop through there own experience, I have. I do not simply follow the herd, I--of my own choice--believe in the Christian faith. I do not see the as something I have been told. I see the world as through my own experiences. I don't think the world is easy and rainbows, as I've been told. I don't see the world as ruthless and stormy, as I have been told. I see the world through my eyes, and I believe it the way I have seen it to be.

And I know plenty, certainly more than "very little" of actual Christian faith. You seem to think the Christian faith is based upon nothing but judgment and a unforgiving word. That is why I believe you know less of the Christian faith than you perceive you know. Christianity is about knowing that all sin, that all do wrong, that Jesus died upon the cross for us, so that God will forgive us. Therefore we believe in forgiving each other for past wrongs and accepting everybody for who they are. If there are those who view it differently, then so be it... just do not say that all Christians are judgmental, and that I know little of my religion. for I know plenty, including why I believe it.

If that is the case, then I am glad for you, but you are still evading the purpose of what I am trying to say to you. Why do people judge? Who would make a judgment about gays without being told that they are bad? No child that I have ever met, for sure. Children receive their ideals from their elders, and children raised in Buddhism will be much, much different than those raised in Christianity.

I am not attacking the religion. I am attacking its current corruption. I am not saying that Christians are bad. That is the same prejudice as racism.

Because it is in our nature to judge, just as it is to sin.
at some point people make a judgment upon whether they think something is right or wrong, some will think it is right, some wrong, some will think that I don't care. But judgment will always be passed by everybody and it doesn't require an influence for the judgment to hit anyone of the slots or make a new slot unthought-of yet.

How have I missed your point? You asked me why people judged, I answered. It's in our nature. You asked, "who would make a judgment..." and I answered everybody. Not everybody gets their ideas and beliefs from their elders, there are those who think for themselves, and there shall hopefully always be.

If that is how you feel we should leave it, fine.
Please know I have answered your questions, only to have you say I have not. You have insulted me by stating I was not knowledgeable in my belief, when I have shown that I do have. I agree that we shall leave it as agree to disagree.

I meant no insult, I was forming an opinion based upon the information provided, and that is unfair indeed. I presented my questions more in a rhetorical theme in which to establish an idea than to be answered, and rhetoric must be one thing that does not translate well into text.

You have a good night, and live your life the best way you know how. I don't care what you believe, so long as you live without regret or oppression.

I wish such a perfect living to you, and ask your forgiveness for any unintentional offense.