Indiana GOP passes law making it a crime for clergy to perform gay weddings

This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every persons position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the FAQ and RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate and remove the ads - it's free!

Re: Indiana GOP passes law making it a crime for clergy to perform gay weddings

Originally Posted by Papa bull

The straight facts are:

1. Science isn't sure about the cause of homosexuality.
2. Some research "points to" hormones in the womb.
3. Other research "points to" epi-genetics rather than genetics.
4. The bottom line is that there is no factual answer, but actual genetics is not on top of the suspect list.

There has been a lot of study.... still no conclusive answers; just lots of theory. I think the reason why we don't know is because there isn't any single "cause" to isolate and identify. For many, it's just a choice, just as it was in the days when Romans and Greeks were gaily cavorting with same-sex partners willy-nilly.

Everything is theories, especially when it comes to personality traits and the influence of genes on those traits. It is almost certainly a combination of many factors. The bottom line is that it doesn't matter if it is genetic or not, it still wouldn't be a choice. That is simply not how traits work, even if no genetic connection could be proven to any personality trait.

No it isn't just a choice because you still do not understand the difference between homosexuality and homosexual behavior (as is obvious from your Romans and Greeks comment).

"A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

Re: Indiana GOP passes law making it a crime for clergy to perform gay weddings

Originally Posted by roguenuke

The other apostles didn't know Paul. He claims this, but truly there is no proof of it. Plus, there is no way that you can know even if they did know Paul that they approved because they didn't give signs of approval for what the others wrote and what got put into the Bible itself from those writings.

Yes, the early church and many churches even now believe this based on the beliefs of Paul mainly.

Yes, it is Paul's views on sex. And he absolutely is a sexist pig. He talks about women being less than men in much of his writings.

It is the

2 Peter 3:14-16

Freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction. We didn't pass it to our children in the bloodstream. It must be fought for, protected, and handed on for them to do the same.

Re: Indiana GOP passes law making it a crime for clergy to perform gay weddings

Originally Posted by roguenuke

The bottom line is that it doesn't matter if it is genetic or not, it still wouldn't be a choice.

It matters that it's not genetics if you're arguing that it is, in fact, genetic.

No it isn't just a choice because you still do not understand the difference between homosexuality and homosexual behavior (as is obvious from your Romans and Greeks comment).

We certainly see that it can be a choice. Only in recent days has there been politically motvated attempt to prove that it's "inborn". The reason for that is obvious, of course. If you can prove it's an immutable characteristic, then you can establish homosexuality as a suspect class quite easily and, therefore, be able to put forward a solid argument that the supreme court must force states to accept homosexual marriage.

But in spite of all the effort put into this, there is still no proof that homosexuality is actually inborn; just lots of debatable theory and I use the word "theory" loosely (just as you do) because it's actually not nearly so solid as true theory. We both know that a gaggle of loose theories about the cause of homosexuality can't be equated to the theory of relativity or the theory of evolution or the theory of fluid mechanics. Those are long accepted theory and not shots in the dark by modern researchers grasping for straws.

You can't reason anyone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into in the first place.

Re: Indiana GOP passes law making it a crime for clergy to perform gay weddings

Originally Posted by davidtaylorjr

So should all states make incest legal too? Why should family members not enter into a contract? Your argument isn't logical.

Can you demonstrate harm caused by incestuous marriage?
Can you demonstrate harm caused by homosexual marriage?

Originally Posted by Oftencold

Two persons "who love each other" can form a club and join it together. There now, they're joined.

Marriage hover, is for eligible and willing men and women. Only Moderns would need these things explained.

You failed to answer the question about harm caused by same-sex marriage. If the government cannot show an interest in maintaining this gender-based distinction, then they shouldn't maintain it. But I guess that's just the small government, personal liberty part of me talking.

He touched her over her bra and underpants, she says, and guided her hand to touch him over his underwear

Re: Indiana GOP passes law making it a crime for clergy to perform gay weddings

Originally Posted by Deuce

Can you demonstrate harm caused by incestuous marriage?
Can you demonstrate harm caused by homosexual marriage?

You failed to answer the question about harm caused by same-sex marriage. If the government cannot show an interest in maintaining this gender-based distinction, then they shouldn't maintain it. But I guess that's just the small government, personal liberty part of me talking.

Can you demonstrate harm caused by incestuous marriage?

You can't reason anyone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into in the first place.

Re: Indiana GOP passes law making it a crime for clergy to perform gay weddings

Originally Posted by Papa bull

The straight facts are:

1. Science isn't sure about the cause of homosexuality.
2. Some research "points to" hormones in the womb.
3. Other research "points to" epi-genetics rather than genetics.
4. The bottom line is that there is no factual answer, but actual genetics is not on top of the suspect list.

There has been a lot of study.... still no conclusive answers; just lots of theory. I think the reason why we don't know is because there isn't any single "cause" to isolate and identify. For many, it's just a choice, just as it was in the days when Romans and Greeks were gaily cavorting with same-sex partners willy-nilly.

Can you find me someone who consciously chose to be attracted to the same gender?

He touched her over her bra and underpants, she says, and guided her hand to touch him over his underwear

Re: Indiana GOP passes law making it a crime for clergy to perform gay weddings

Originally Posted by Papa bull

Can you demonstrate harm caused by incestuous marriage?

As expected, you dodged the questions.

I can't personally demonstrate harm caused by either. However, I will readily admit I haven't looked into research on the impacts of incestuous relationships and/or marriage. Feel free to post some in a different thread, because this thread is about same-sex marriage. I have read the research there.

If someone were to show me demonstrable harm from same-sex marriage, I might reconsider my opinion on it. To date, nobody has managed to do that. Even arguing before the Supreme Court, Prop 8 supporters were unable to demonstrate any harm when directly asked about it. These are the legal experts hired by the religious folks against same-sex marriage to take up the case all the way to the highest court in the land. They were asked directly whether there was any harm in same-sex marriage. They tried to avoid the question. Because they had no answer.

And neither do you.

He touched her over her bra and underpants, she says, and guided her hand to touch him over his underwear