Don't you worry your little head about wing span or the ability to barely move in those cages. I mean, chickens are stupid anyway. Haven't you heard what little bird brains they have? Why are you so concerned? Nobody else is.

Actually, from my experience raising them they are not very bright, but they are smarter than the domestic turkey breeds.

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But then I suppose we could shorten their cages to stunt their height and then maybe be wouldn't have to buy any particular kind of grill to "waffle" them.

Since there has been no reference of how high the cages are, there may be a lot of room to lower them. The reference in the link was only to area, which does not address height at all.

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Those darn kitchen-gadgets will eventually end up in the land fills anyway, so why not make their cages shorter and reduce waste? Kernal Sanders would be delighted!

Birds brains maybe tiny but strip away the brains intellectual capacity and leave the raw and fundamental perception of reality that is called consciousness that leads to the philosophical question how do we know we are that different from another species?

Because no other species can do what we do at this time.

Do not quote me when it was animal friendly that initiated those comments.

'because no other species can do what we do at this time'

You have clearly not grasped what I put forth. Read it again and come back with a more acceptable response.

Don't you worry your little head about wing span or the ability to barely move in those cages. I mean, chickens are stupid anyway. Haven't you heard what little bird brains they have? Why are you so concerned? Nobody else is.

Actually, from my experience raising them they are not very bright, but they are smarter than the domestic turkey breeds.

Quote:

But then I suppose we could shorten their cages to stunt their height and then maybe be wouldn't have to buy any particular kind of grill to "waffle" them.

Since there has been no reference of how high the cages are, there may be a lot of room to lower them. The reference in the link was only to area, which does not address height at all.

Quote:

Those darn kitchen-gadgets will eventually end up in the land fills anyway, so why not make their cages shorter and reduce waste? Kernal Sanders would be delighted!

Birds brains maybe tiny but strip away the brains intellectual capacity and leave the raw and fundamental perception of reality that is called consciousness that leads to the philosophical question how do we know we are that different from another species?

Because no other species can do what we do at this time.

Do not quote me when it was animal friendly that initiated those comments.

Actually, it was Knight who gave the link, but it was you who commented on lowering the available height to which I commented.

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'because no other species can do what we do at this time'

You have clearly not grasped what I put forth. Read it again and come back with a more acceptable response.

I grasped what you put forth and responded accordingly. I doubt if any response would be acceptable given the difference in views.

Maybe you should think more about what I wrote.

Hint ... humans write laws to protect themselves and others which no other species has yet to do, thus there is a huge difference.

_________________With friends like Guido, you will not have enemies for long.

“Intellect is invisible to the man who has none” Arthur Schopenhauer

"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits."Albert Einstein

As the gentle-hearted Mothy pointed out, all birds should be free to soar through the sky and feel the sun and wind on their face, not imprisoned in cages; in this instance, cages so small, they can't even stretch their wings.

Hundreds of millions of chickens around the world live miserable lives in these inhumane, squalid conditions.

To service the trade an endless supply of new chicks are reared. Any unfortunate enough to have been born male get thrown live into a mincing machine...

So you see there IS cruelty involved. Great cruelty.

Wheter you eat eggs or not is your own moral choice - please give the issue due consideration - but if you do, at least buy free-range.

One bad bullet coming your way you will be screaming to your mammy softboy

Mothy .... as frustrated as you may be .... please keep yourself in check m'dear! There is no way you can respond to violence with violence while contesting violence itself. Who are you calling, "Softboy;? Get a grip, Calm down. Converse ... You may discuss. It's ok.

As the gentle-hearted Mothy pointed out, all birds should be free to soar through the sky and feel the sun and wind on their face, not imprisoned in cages; in this instance, cages so small, they can't even stretch their wings.

Neither turkey nor chickens soar either in relation to domestic or wild breeds. They are naturally the target for predators who do not kill in anything approaching a humane manner.

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Hundreds of millions of chickens around the world live miserable lives in these inhumane, squalid conditions.

As do humans .... it is a part of life it seems.

Quote:

To service the trade an endless supply of new chicks are reared. Any unfortunate enough to have been born male get thrown live into a mincing machine...

Unlike those cultures who eliminate female infants? Animals may not choose only males or females, but they clearly do consume their young for various reasons.

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So you see there IS cruelty involved. Great cruelty.

Unlike nature which is fraught with cruelty? Humans define what is and is not "cruel" to each individual in varied and subjective ways.

_________________With friends like Guido, you will not have enemies for long.

“Intellect is invisible to the man who has none” Arthur Schopenhauer

"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits."Albert Einstein

Tis true nature in its fundamental form is blind to what is kind and what is cruel. We have all read about animals altruistic to other species and other animals which will kill with no second thought. Wayne talks alot of common sense and I appreciate alot of what he says though I don't agree with him. I would suggest I measure this world with empathy more than intellect as my sovereign whereas Wayne uses intellect and common sense equally. Battery cages were introduced as a product of the war whereas profit and convience now maintain this horrendous trade. The E.U have introduced enriched cages where the hens can nest which will be put into force by 2012. Utopia is the target for all ethical vegans but nature in its blind viciousness and man in his ignorance, self-indulgence and greed will win the day.

It seems man can only truely love an animal that reciprocates his emotions and affections.Mothy.

And as for animal friendly and the sarcasm, shame on you, you little rascal for catching me off guard. When it comes to the welfare of lesser sentients I lose my sense of humour.

If man cannot expand his morals and ethics to include the welfare of the beast, which granted the beast does not have his morals and ethics, then he is no better than the beast.

Mothy.

Look I'm a bloody moth, I spend my time thinking candle flame is the moon.

Last edited by mothy on Sun Dec 11, 2011 5:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.

One bad bullet coming your way you will be screaming to your mammy softboy

Mothy .... as frustrated as you may be .... please keep yourself in check m'dear! There is no way you can respond to violence with violence while contesting violence itself. Who are you calling, "Softboy;? Get a grip, Calm down. Converse ... You may discuss. It's ok.

I was being sarcastic as you are so fondly of practicing.

Somebody who thinks logically provides a nice contrast to the real world.

Tis true nature in its fundamental form is blind to what is kind and what is cruel. We have all read about animals altruistic to other species and other animals which will kill with no second thought. Wayne talks alot of common sense and I appreciate alot of what he says though I don't agree with him. I would suggest I measure this world with empathy more than intellect as my sovereign whereas Wayne uses intellect and common sense equally. Battery cages were introduced as a product of the war whereas profit and convience now maintain this horrendous trade. The E.U have introduced enriched cages where the hens can nest which will be put into force by 2012. Utopia is the target for all ethical vegans but nature in its blind viciousness and man in his ignorance, self-indulgence and greed will win the day.

It seems man can only truely love an animal that reciprocates his emotions and affections.Mothy.

And as for animal friendly and the sarcasm, shame on you, you little rascal for catching me off guard. When it comes to the welfare of lesser sentients I lose my sense of humour.

If man cannot expand his morals and ethics to include the welfare of the beast, which granted the beast does not have his morals and ethics, then he is no better than the beast.

Mothy.

Look I'm a bloody moth, I spend my time thinking candle flame is the moon.

I'm no drama queen or crackpot but after I wrote this I was given Matthew 12:1 through a sign.

It reads: Once about that time Jesus went through the cornfields on the sabbath; and his disciples,feeling hungry, began to pluck some ears of corn and eat them.

As the gentle-hearted Mothy pointed out, all birds should be free to soar through the sky and feel the sun and wind on their face, not imprisoned in cages; in this instance, cages so small, they can't even stretch their wings.

Neither turkey nor chickens soar either in relation to domestic or wild breeds. They are naturally the target for predators who do not kill in anything approaching a humane manner.

Quote:

Hundreds of millions of chickens around the world live miserable lives in these inhumane, squalid conditions.

As do humans .... it is a part of life it seems.

Quote:

To service the trade an endless supply of new chicks are reared. Any unfortunate enough to have been born male get thrown live into a mincing machine...

Unlike those cultures who eliminate female infants? Animals may not choose only males or females, but they clearly do consume their young for various reasons.

Quote:

So you see there IS cruelty involved. Great cruelty.

Unlike nature which is fraught with cruelty? Humans define what is and is not "cruel" to each individual in varied and subjective ways.

It's called evolution, Wayne. In a truly civilized, enlightened society we should be moving away from all acts of bloodshed, brutality and enslavement, be it against man or beast.