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SEO Salesman vs SEO Geek: SEO Selling Success Observations

This entry was written by one of our members and submitted to our YouMoz section.The author's views below are entirely his or her own and may not reflect the views of Moz.

Okay, first of all... I'm not a salesman in any way shape or form. I know absolutely zero about it, I haven't read books or been to seminars and I don't know anything about traditional sales tactics. This is purely on feedback I've been given from clients as to why they signed up with us. It might not be the same for everyone, I just thought I'd share my experiences and see if anyone else finds it to be the same for them.

Despite my profile picture I never really wear a suit and I'm rarely clean shaven. When I first started going out to see clients I was far more nervous about it all than I am now, but being the chatty one of our little agency it was left to me to be the "salesman". At the will of the others I went along in a suit, with a bunch of paperwork such as contracts and a standing order form with the hope of getting people signed up straight away (I was advised by somebody who works in sales that this was a way around our previous problem of customers saying they'd like to go ahead, and then never getting around to actually signing up with us).

Needless to say I had little success. After a while I started reverting back to my scruffy self, even at appointments with clients. I tend to have that "Just fell out of bed look!"

I noticed that I felt more comfortable in myself with this and felt it somehow affected my ability to talk to the clients. After all, I was an SEO not a salesman... looking back I realise that I felt uncomfortable trying to be somebody I'm not (wearing a suit and trying to push things on to people).

I was chastised for this a little and was forbidden to go to a particular meeting with a large national company who were a potential client. I went with my gut feel and turned up looking like myself anyway. As far as I was concerned, it should be about what I say, not how I look that determined the outcome.

We got the job. As the curious chap I am (and smug about being right as usual), I wanted to find out if the suit would have made any difference, so I asked. I didn't ask just that client, I asked anyone and everyone we had success with. I got in to a friendly chat with them to procure the information in order to figure out what sold it.

My findings were as follows.

A suit would have put them off. The clients are used to smartly dressed salesmen turning up and trying to get them to sign their lives away, and if I had of turned up in a suit it would have instantly put them on the back foot (or in defense mode against a hard sell strategy). So people are right about first impressions, just not necessarily in the way they think.

The general feedback I got was that they were more impressed by the fact that I clearly was not a salesman, I was a techie geek. I was obviously passionate about what I do and instead of trying to sell to them I excitedly explained what we did and what it could do. This is where the suit comes in. techie geeks don't wear suits, salesmen do. Techie geeks are scruffy and don't use pressure sales, they just get excited about their techie geek stuff whenever they get a chance to talk about it. This gave the clients confidence that I was good at my job, and they trusted me because it wasn't a sales pitch from an sales expert... they didn't feel I was trying to manipulate their thoughts, overstate or over promise anything in order to get a sale.

Aside from this we ditched the contracts. We weren't comfortable trying to tie people in anyway. Why would we need to do that if we were doing our jobs properly, if we were getting the required results then they would be happy to stay with us anyway! This meant less risk for the client, as they could cancel at any time, and made it clear that we had confidence in our own abilities. Having said this, I do still understand why some companies do have contracts with clients. I think it very much depends on the circumstances, the clients involved, and a number of other factors. We're just in a situation where it's not so necessary for us.

Anyway, now when I must go to meet with a potential client I turn up scruffy looking and do the exact same thing, I don't sell SEO to them... I chat to them about SEO. I give them loads of free advice and I enjoy myself doing so. If I were to turn up in a suit to my next client meeting I would feel uncomfortable again, I would go into some alter ego salesman mode which isn't me, and I would fail miserably. No matter how big the client and how much is at stake, if they're going to choose us, they'll do it for the right reasons.

So, in my opinion (and please know I'm no expert, this is purely my own opinion based on my own experiences) if you're a techie geek and you have to meet a potential client, turn up as a techie geek. You don't need a suit, it's your knowledge, expertise and passion they want to see, not your dress sense.

The moral of the story is that despite the fact that I'm not a salesman, I now make quite a good SEO salesman (through not being like a salesman). If I tried to sell anything else I would be awful. But the clients I see at least, prefer to be sold to by geeks, which makes things all the better for me!

Finally I want to add this. A friend of mine who is awesome at his job (he designs yachts) went for an interview for a fairly low level position in a fairly small company about a year ago and was turned down on these very same grounds. Whilst he was smartly dressed, he did not wear a suit to his interview. Just after that interview he had what is arguably the world's most prestigious yacht design company come across his work and offer him a very high level position. Now, just one year later he is head of their design department and has achieved some amazing things for the company.

Maybe people should be employed on the merit of what they can do, instead of their ability to dress themselves in the morning. In some industries at least!

About SteveOllington —
Steve is an SEO Account Director at Agenda21 and volunteer Digital Strategist at the BHA.
On Twitter: @SteveOllington

52 Comments

While the defiant "be who you really are" person inside of me wants to agree with you I'm going to have to disagree and I'll tell you why.

I'm at my second big agency. The first one I was just a regular freelance analyst and all the tech guys kinda just came in as if we were fresh out of bed, t-shirts, jeans, shorts whatever. This was in Philadelphia and I personally did not have much of client-facing role so it didn't really matter what I wore. Our lead analyst who is awesome always had a beard and and wore whatever he wanted. Somehow that worked for him. I never once saw him in anything that resembled business or business casual. Our account managers however always had on a button down shirt and slacks.

However now I'm a full-time permanent SEO lead at another agency in NYC and it simply doesn't work. When I'm just in the office it's fine for me to come in a t-shirt and such but at the same time when there are marketing types in the room or if I'm dealing with clients they just don't take me as seriously. My boss took me to the side one day and basically said you have to dress the part. A lot of the clients I deal with are Fortune 500s so they are very much old school standard marketing types who are expecting you to look a certain way or they will just play with their blackberries and zone out while you're talking.

In my experience just knowing your stuff is not always enough. When you deal with big clients they are always judging the package before you even open your mouth.

So basically, just like anything else you should know your audience. It isn't so cut and dry as "if they won't take me as I am they're not worth my time." And truthfully it's kinda fun to snap into an alter ego mode to do a client meeting. Not so much become a salesman but really go to their level and show them why they should be dealing with you, show them your enthusiasm and your skill. That's a challenge that every tech geek needs to overcome. Basically my point is, don't shoot yourself in the foot over something as trivial as having to "dress up" for an hour because I've felt the very same way in the past and there's really no reason to stop yourself from getting that bigger business.

I have considered that actually... we have a couple of clients that to us are quite large, but they're not like huge multinational corporations or anything. I suspect that I should back-track if I were to go to a client meeting with a company that large and not take the chance that they might see it as offensive or something... they might just think that I couldn't be bothered.

Thank you everybody for your comments, my first YouMoz post so I'm excited to see any comments :D

By that I mean that I mean that a suit can be a put off to some people because he can't make you come across as a slick salesperson. But scruffy doesn't necessarily cut it either.

When I go on a sales call I dress the way I would for a job interview with the company. I look at the culture of the organization and dress to fit in (nicely). It is important that they think they are important enough for me to shave and clean up a little, not looking like I stopped in on the way home from a night with the gang at the Garage, drinking, bowling and shooting pool.

I don't think you will find many people who will buy from you because of how you look, but you can still find plenty who won't buy from you because of it.

We have found over the years that we don't want a client to stick around that is unhappy, so long term contracts went out the window. If we don't do the job they want from us then they should move on and find someone who will. But we do get a letter of aggreement outlinning exactly what we will do, what they are expected to provide, and of course how much. We let them know that we want to be sure that everyone understands the arrangement and have something to check back on should we forget what we agreed to do, or not do, down the road when memory becomes a little fuzzy on the details.

I rarely loose a client because they are not satisfied, and the few I have lost cause the whole office to celebrate their leaving. We are glad they made room for a new client we could build a long term relationship with.

The points you raise are so true... being comfortable and conversational will go so much further than just trying to dress to impress. I, like you, normally go in for the sale dressed casually. My clients that know me realize that I work from a home office; they know I pick my child up from school around 2:30 each day; and know that they can always call me any time when they have a question or concern. My clients are also very forgiving when I (gasp) take that occasional day off or have a family emergency. They know I'm down to earth, a straight-shooter, and I'm more than happy to lend advice or follow suggestions because we're in this together.

If I tried to be someone I'm not, I don't think I would have fostered these great relationships over the years. And I certainly wouldn't have enjoyed myself either! At the end of the day we take pride in our work, and I would venture to say that carries a lot more weight with my clients than fancy clothes just to close the deal.

I really believe that you should do what you are most comfortable with - be yourself, not what you think you are expected to be. I moved to full time SEO from more of a web development background with bits of SEO as it was what I enjoyed and where my passion was so I am not playing to any expectations about what I should wear.

I am totally a jeans and t-shirt person. I will wear a casual shirt, nice jeans, heck, even a pair of clarks desert boots but, never, never, never a suit.

Many years ago I read an interview with Larry Page and when asked about the dress code at googleplex he replied with something along the lines of:

Smart does not require a suit

I loved that quote, and it has stuck with me all this time. I actually went to an impromptu interview where I was in a pair of camo shorts and I pre warned the client as it was scruffy, even for me, and they had a jolly good time taking the mickey out of me ever since. That one client now refers to me only as camo man! :)

Great article Steve - it's nice to see some articles about the brass tacks of running an SEO biz as well as the lovely geeky technical stuff. :)

I understand peoples aversion to salesmen tactics but there is a time and place where it would not be suitable to show up all shaggy and unkempt. Depeneds on the client you are going to see, a first meeting definately warrants wearing a suit.

However that does not mean you should go in all sales speak and chatter. Having a conversation with your clients and giving them what they want where possible is the most important. I have been to meetings where I have been all suited and booted and the clients have come in looking shaggy, I didnt let it put me off since I wanted there business. I simply took off my jacket, unbuttoned my collar and loosened my tie.

You have to judge the type of meeting it will be and adjust accordingly. A good salesman is selling himself just as much as the product he's selling and clients should leave meetings without feeling like they have been force sold anything.

I agree, it's a good approach to dress formally but then be able to tone it down if you need to (or go smart casual and be able to dress it up). It's all about being flexible and adapting to the situation. - Jenni

My guess is that your new success had nothing to do with the clients' perspecitve of your attire, but rather that you felt more comfortable when you were not wearing a suit. Therefore, you gave a more confident and genuine presentation.

Me personally, I'd be perfectly fine wearing a suit with no tie (fashionable and not overly formal). What we do is still business. You can look like you rolled out of bed at the shop, not meeting with clients. You can still look professional and let your presentation and demonstration of knowledge speak for itself.

Sounds to me like you were nervous being in a suit because it was uncomfortable and felt out of place to you and it was your uneasiness that was projected into your potential clients. When you are more comfortable with how you're presenting yourself and your information, you'll tend to come off as being more confident and knowledgable which your customers will detect easily.

This post also reminds me of the book "Walden" by Henry David Thoreau; in one section of that collection of musings, Thoreau notices that people respond differently to someone based on how they are dressed. For this reason, he warns people against having to work for someone who dictates your wardrobe because they are, in effect, putting you on some different level than with everyone else on the social scale. It makes sense in this case because when people see the suit, they may also associate it with needless expense and may feel that someone who can afford such clothing will either cost too much for their services or exist to swindle them out of their money.

Someone who is confident in themselves and dresses similarly to the client will show that they are on more equal social levels and may be trusted more easily because the client can relate to you more.

To echo this, most people make buying decisions based on emotions, not based on rationality. The vibe you give off is dependent upon your personal demeanor. If you disbelieve what you say, experienced buyers can detect it, if you're ill at ease, you won't be as enthusiastic and passionate as you might otherwise.

So while I gave thumbs-up to the article in general, there's a balance. It is possible that a "scruffy"-dressed guy might be able to land a large enterprise client: but it might very well depend on the person with whom you're meeting. I would say that if your mode of dress is perceived as disrespectful (not common, but a possibility) your vibe won't overcome it. But then, you may not want that client in that case! :)

I see your point. I rarely wear suits. I'm a woman and I usually dress nice for meetings but not conservative. SEOs / creatives have a certain amount of leeway you have. People expect us to look creative or techie. I do think however that you need to look like you care and respect the person you are meeting with.

I think the reason the "scruffy" look worked is because of people's perceptions of geeks. Unfortunately, people are more likely to trust someone who looks the part. Once you have that foot in the door, what you say and the way you say it will reinforce their perception and ta da you have a working formula.

I wholeheartedly agree that people should be hired based off their skills/passion and not their appearance, but this is idealism. As long as you come across as the techie geek that knows his stuff, you'll be fine and have the best possible chance of getting the client regardless of how you are dressed.

I take a somewhat hybrid approach. I don't think your "just got out of bed look" works for women. In fact, I think it works against them. So I'll dress smart, nothing crazy formal, but nice. It does help to put some effort into the appearance. No different than showing up for a date really. And I'm still "technie geeky" and get excited whenever I get a chance to talk about internet marketing.

All of these posts about what to wear - suit, no suit, look serious, look professional, don't go to a meeting looking scruffy, etc. - isn't that why they invented Skype?
When I have a face-to-face, it's always at a restaurant (since my office is a spare bedroom) and as long as I pick up the check, my tie-dyed t-shirt and assorted piercings don't seem to matter a whit. In fact, it's sorta what suits expect a web copy writer to look like. I go for the "geek with guts" look.
The last one who told me what to wear to work was my 84-year-old mother who still tells me to "Get a haircut, Paulie." I stopped listening to her about 50 years ago. :-)
Paulie

Your selling clients on your skills which is great. One thing I disagree is the lack on a contract or a commitment from the client. I recommend short term contracts (anywhere from 3 months to 1 year) to ensure the client is serious. Also, dress accordingly. You may not need a suit but look serious and professional when meeting with potential clients. They are investing in you, and I feel that 'cleaning up' makes you look more professional in the end.

Nice post. This is exactly how I approach sales and it seems to have worked pretty well with a pretty good lead-to-sale conversion rate since circa 2003. Its more fun to "talk about SEO" than to "sell SEO" and, darn it, seems to be more effective too!

Now days Internet Marketing is the most effective and essential part for every business. SEO is the most affordable Internet Marketing Tool. If we talk about SEO salesman - i totally agreed. As i have observed that Internet has become our basic need and we are very much dependent on internet still we are not aware about the importance of SEO (except SEO and Internet Marketing Professionals). As i have seen in India (i am saying about India only not about USA) only SEO and Internet Marketing experts are aware about SEO Process rest of the internet users thinks SEO is a submission. In that scenario only an SEO salesman is capable to make the needy persons aware about the importance of SEO and SEO Process. Its quite obvious that an SEO salesman should be an SEO experts.

I too don't beleive in wearing a suit and prefer to just dress smarlty.

I also don't try to tie people into contracts and agreements as this can scare potential customers away. Like you say, if you are confident in your own abilities and do a good job then there is no reason why they should want to bail out at an early stage in the process anyway. If everything has been explained up front and their expectations have been dealt with, then no problems.

At the end of the day, people buy from people. If you can communicate well and build up good rapport with your potential clients and at the same time wow them with your knowledge and expertise, then you have a great chance of bringing that new client onboard.

"The general feedback I got was that they were more impressed by the fact that I clearly was not a salesman, I was a techie geek."
There aren't a lot of salespeople we like because they have their own agendas, which may or may not be in our best interests, so representing yourself as a chip-head is a GOOD thing.
For a big ticket item. i.e. a professionally designed. built and maintained web site, buyers want to talk to someone other than the sales team member. They WANT to talk to techs who are going to do the heavy lifting. Buyers want to make sure the person doing the design "gets it."
Excellent article. Picked up a few tips to make me less sales-oriented and more focused on "here are the benefits you, the client, WILL receive when you hire me (or us)."
Thumbs up.
Paul

I like that you're exploring the importance of appearance in pitching to clients. You also seem to understand the value of attitude, confidence, and perceptions. And because of these factors I think it might be helpful to consider how comfortable you'd be in a T shirt and jeans, when everyone else in the room is in a suit. The casual look plays some times, but not always. And while your comfort is important, it is more important that others are comfortable with you. You addressed this in the post, but as other commentors have pointed out, not all potential clients will be comfortable with paying out to someone who they percieve as not showing them respect of dressing formally for the meeting. One of the best ways to pitch better is to understand who you are pitching to, and when you know how they dress, dress to match. And hopefully, you'll know more about your potential clients than their wardrobe preferences. I think Guy Kawasaki's book Enchantment addresses this very well, as well as the second point you made in your post, that you should be having a conversation instead of "selling".

Completely agree with this. When I was at a search agency they would hire salesman that had absolutely ZERO knowledge of SEO or Paid Search...just a sales background. Senior management skoffed at the idea of having senior level analysts assist in sales pitches. I applaud the salesman that is also, or was, a search professional at one point.

I don't think there's a right and wrong answer here. I think it depends entirely on the client.

In an ideal world no one would care what the person is wearing, with them instead looking for the best person/agency for the job every time. The fact is, the world doesn't work quite like that. And SEO is no exception.

It kind of reminds me of the scene in Social Network where Zuckerberg turns up to the investor meeting in his dressing gown.

Good post. I read something similar in Inc not too long ago in a guest post by 37 signals. Basically be yourself, and don't try to present yourself as something you're not. If you're a single-person operation, it's weird to refer to yourself as "We" in your web copy :)

Though SEO is a branch of marketing but yes having a sales talk about SEO services is more of a technical job rather than a hard core sales job.

An SEO geek can or may successfully do the sales talk and be a successful SEO sales person but a SEO sales person need not be an SEO geek or know much about SEO and one can easily see through it.

An SEO sales talk is more about educating the opposite person about the basics of SEO and debunking all his myths about SEO rather than actually selling the SEO package as only when the person understands what is SEO and what results he can expect he can take a decision to close the sale.

As far as the dress sense is concerned being comfortable and keeping in mind a certain level of decency which reflects respect for the opposite person is enough as after a certain time if you know the art and science of SEO the client gets interested in what you have to say and how much knowledge he can get about SEO from you becomes more important.(See content is important here too... but presentation will guarantee success)

This will not only ensure getting the project but the future understanding , cooperation and successful implementation of the project depends on this as communication and trust built during these sessions sow the seeds for a long term understanding and the regular renewals of the SEO contracts as SEO is not a one time job but an ongoing process.

I was always told that if you're not sure what to wear then dress smart, after meeting two clients the other day and both (including a business development manager) were dressed down in polo t shirts then I'm not so sure, although the weather was over 90 degrees in NYC this week!

Agreed with connections8 walking in to a professional services firm such as law, accounting and finance there is always going to be a strong focus on associating image with being professional.

My friend has just moved to NYC for a senior job within online marketing and was told to smarten up even though he's been a geek and dressed what suits him his whole career!

I really like your comment about 'just having a conversation' - rather than presenting things a conversation is (in my experience) a much better sales method - you get to understand the client's issues better and have a chance to see if the 'chemistry' thing is going to work.

Can't see myself going unshaven to a sales meeting though...I guess it's all about what you're comfortable with ;-)

Totally agree. However, it also depends on who you are talking with. Most of the HR people in the company, look for the outside appearance rather than what they know. Very nice post, hope this post gets caught to some of the people who are in need of SEO.

I think this is exactly it - gauge what will be appropriate for both you and the client.

Big companies don't always expect you to turn up in a suit - we recently landed a gig for a UK-based subsidiary of Xerox, and were all in jeans and shirts. It was the same with a UK distribution agent working on behalf a car manufacturer - they were in suits, we were in jeans and shirts and we got the job. We're a full service agency, with creatives, developers and the rest in the same office. As you can see from my photo, I'm not exactly clean shaven and we have a few others in the office who are the same (although I've now lost the long hair). We go for the "cool, comfortable, creative" feel and our clients like that.

On the other hand, having worked in banking I would never turn up to a financial institution of any sort in anything other than a suit and tie because there is a good chance they won't take you seriously. In that situation, though, I wouldn't be confortable in jeans - so the suit works for both sides.

Stereotypes and cliches, hiring someone that wears a suit or not... I really hate the people that go by some dumb rules like that one. Like you said, it's all about knowledge, although I have no issue wearing a suit and being a geek, a suite doesn't change me, the way I speak or behave so I don't have a problem with that. I could show up in leather pants and leather jacket and still be a geek. Also, I know more and more companies are offering services without a contract, which is a smart move if you are confident in your skills!

I went in jeans and a collared shirt to an interview for a prospective client in 'high class' Orange County, California. They are in the insurance industry with MASSIVE potential. I busted out the Keyword Ranking reports to show them progress on one of their clients.

But how about if the client is working for some big company, and when you met them, the 3 of them together (the client's team) all wear suit?

even worse, if the client is actually calling a meeting with multiple agencies, and all of them wear suit, and when we show up with only V-Neck Shirt.... you know what i mean

In my opinion : if you know A, B and C techniques will help to win a client, you should employ all of them instead of "Hey A is actually the most important thing, and C is not too important because after all the service i am selling has nothing to do with C, that is why i will not use C Technique to win a client" , which felt like handicapping your own potential, which is again in my humbles opinion, a bad idea :((

In that example C would be a technique of wearing something that will make people take you seriously (such as wearing suit , etc)

In that example A would be bringing a laptop, and show them all of your knowledge about your expertise that is of course the most important thing to win a client :)

I guess I feel like I really should comment on this one, because we actually run sales groups and business development programs for companies, and have for many years in many Industries.

Sales is a lot like SEO. What is important is not what you wear (I will make an exception later). Here are the top attribute's of a prolific salesperson (and I have hired and managed thousands, I am not joking).

Authenticity. Your trust them Knowledge Uniqueness (I once gave classes in how NOT to sound like a sales person!)

Passion for their industry and service Likeability (You would want this person as a friend, neighbor, Golf partner)

A great product Great ears. (meaning they hear what the prospects wants)

And a sense of respect for the prospect.

And again it all comes down to trust.

I worked with a C.V.O. at USA.NET in the late 1990's. He was brilliant, and loved everything about our industry. He was so far away from what any of us would call a sales person, but he was the best salesperson in the company. I took him to meet with register.com in New York, and asked him to speak when Japan's largest telecom company came to visit, when we were looking to build a strategic relationship with H.P. he was the go to guy. And I have never before or after seen anyone hold the attention of a prospect or group like he could. What did her wear? It didn't matter. What did I wear? It didn't matter, no one was paying any attention to me, and that was perfect.

The exception I would make to all of this, is there are some large company cultures (I use to call it the east coast business mentality, but it has become much smaller than that) that see you wearing a suit as simple respect for them. Decades ago I worked for a large firm (and one considered highly progressive at the time) based in Washington D.C. I was told button down shirts (white), a certain type shoe and NO facial hair. If you didn't look that way you were not going to advance. That mentality still exists. But my advice is, if that's not what your culture is , then don't try to fake it. Sell to companies that have compatible cultures, your life will be much more pleasant. Sorry about the book!

While I have to disagree about your observation about appearance I whole heartedly agree about how you should talk to your clients and potential clients. It is our job to help people see how SEO can help them achieve their goals, so its important that we engage with them using language they understand and framing the power of Search in terms of their bottom line. So be comfortable, be who you are and nerd or chic you'll get through to them.

It depends on what type of clients you are dealing with, SME clients you may get away with dressing like a tecchie but larger clients you really need to dress it up.

Sure enough if it is a client who is small and is a pool cleaner or something along those lines then yeah wip out the jeans and the polo shirt when you have meetings with them, I am sure they will be cool.

But if it is a banking client or a law firm, you would never go in a polo shirt and jeans or they would think you are un professional.

I work in a Global Advertising agency so yeah a collard shirt and jeans is usually my dress code.

So by your definition one should go to a client's meeting only in his underwear if he feels more comfortable that way. Being a techie geek is no excuse for wearing shabby clothes in client's office and just wearing a suit doesn't automatically make you a sales man. Also being a seo salesman in not a bad thing as long as you have the ability to 'listen' and provide customised services to your client.

lol, that's a pretty extreme example. I suspect if I turned up in my underwear I wouldn't get very far no matter how comfortable I felt. Going outside of social norms like that wasn't really something I'd considered as an objection to be honest.

It's kind of like saying, you could turn up with an axe if it made you feel comfortable but I think we all know that would be a little off-putting for the client haha. A bit of a straw man argument I reckon ;p

And I'm sure there are plenty of great salesmen who wear suits and get the job done too, like I said it may well not be the case for everybody but it's what I've found for us. Maybe it's something to do with the types of clients we have... mostly they're quite down to earth people.

I do see what you're saying though, and maybe it's something to do with UK culture (I'm just guessing that) because business owners here are all so over-sold to by stereotypical salespeople, that's it's built a mis-trust of salesmen in suits. Not sure but would be interesting to know :)