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Indeed it is perverse logic for the proponents of Prop. 8 to state that gay judges in reliationships should be allowed to rule on issues affecting gay people. By that deduction, it would imply that only single unmarried heterosexual judges should hear divorce cases. What jackasses. This will hopefully be thrown out and the proponents will lose, good riddance.

@Stu …
…they have lost the argument and they are desperately clutching at straws. It would also appear that their legal team is taking them for a ride, as even a first year high school student would have seen the silliness of their argument.
These anti everything xtian groups don’t seem to have been bestowed with even a modicum of intelligence by their “maker”

Someone should sue the state to argue that heterosexual marriage is unconstitutional and when it gets struck down by a straight judge say that they had a vested interest and the case could only be heard by a gay judge who doesn’t have a vested interest in straight marriage.

It beggars belief that the Proposition H8 people have come up with this nonsense without imagining the ridicule that would follow (from people who understand logic, anyway) – thank goodness Judge Randy could see through it.

Vaughn Walker – this is the man who in private practice opposed the term “Gay Olympics”, who was appointed to the bench initially by Ronald Reagan and re-appointed by GW Bush (both darlings of the right), whose appointment was opposed by many because he was seen to be insensitive to the interests of the gay community. The right wing was happy with him since 1989 as long as he was “perceived” as anti-gay but suddenly his competence comes into question who he delivers a favourable (to the gay community) ruling.

Sounds a bit like the spoiled child with an “It’s my ball so it’s my rules” syndrome.

the term “Gay Olympics” was not so much a question of “opposing it”, as it was a case of copyright infringement. The International Olympic Committee hold the copyright on the name “Olympics”. The gay games erred when they wanted to use that name.

The argument at the time was that the Olympic committee seemingly had no problem with dozens of other variations on their name including the Crab Cooking Olympics and the Rat Olympics. Apparently gays were more offensive than rats, in terms of association with the name.

And just WHAT is this “evidence”? The “Bible”?? We all know who wrote the Bible — and it sure wasn’t GOD! Just because you CHOOSE to “believe” that God “inspired” the people to write what they did does not PROVE that at all — does it?! As a matter of fact, God just told me to write this: “All the stuff that men have written in the Bible about homosexual people is NOT true!” Now, who are you going to believe? Me – a modern day woman or barbarians who lived between two and three thousand years ago who thought the Earth was flat?

Yes I know, Brittany – sarcasm is always unwise on internet discussions, I should have learnt that by now. I meant to highlight the absurdity of believing that Jehovah had suddenly, after millennia, changed his mind.

For the avoidance of doubt, I haven’t even the slightest belief (quiite the opposite) that recent beneficial changes in law have anything to do with a Middle Eastern deity.

of course, there IS the simple truth that the Bible actually contains not a single word against homosexuality. the only place you will find the word “homosexual” used is in TRANSLATIONS of the Bible. The original Greek and Aramaic contains no trace of the word, or any word that can properly be translated as “homosexual”.

The word ‘Homosexual’ was not devised until 1869 when the Austro-Hungarian novelist Karl-Maria Kertbeny used it when arguing against a Prussian anti-sodomy law. That was well after the Bible was written!
I would also like to point out that the Bible does not mention dinosaurs although Creationists believe that dinosaurs died out because they did not make it onto the Ark in the Great Flood. The word meaning ‘Fearsome Lizard’ did not get invented until 1820 again long after the Bible. I am not trying to justify the Bible here. I believe the Great Flood was actually the flooding of the Black Sea basin due to rising sea levels in the wake of the last Ice Age.

The debate about Proposition 8 rumbles on. 52% of those who voted in the referendum wanted to make Gay Marriage unconstitutional in the State of California. Note the word ‘Unconstitutional’. In order to amend a constitution a two-thirds majority is required to vote for the change. Therefore in order to make Gay Marriages unconstitutional in California then 66.667% or more voters would have to object. Supporters of Gay Marriage, put that one to the Supreme Court!

The question of whether Proposition 8 is a constitutional amendment or constitutional revision was ruled on by the California Supreme Court on May 26, 2009, and found that it was not a revision and therefore would be upheld. They also declared that the same-sex marriages performed prior to the passing of Prop 8 would remain valid.

Unfortunate, because it would have invalidated prop 8 there and then (subject to appeals to 9th Circuit and possibly SCOTUS) – but on the plus side, that would have delayed the case even further and we’d have much longer to wait now before full marriage equality.

Also, if it had been struck down on a technicality such as that, there would have been no chance of it going as far as it has – if the 9th Circuit were to make a broad ruling in our favour, the change would apply to many western states, rather than just California.

Tom, why many western states as opposed to the mid-west, eastern seaboard and the south? Now, in my limited knowledge of the American legal system, if this reached the Supreme Court of the U.S. I would assume if it ruled in our favour, marriage equality would be legal in all states? I’m not so sure if 5 of the 9 judges who are staunchly conservative catholics would rule in favour of overturning the Defenc(s)e of Marriage Act either, even if the evidence to do so is overwhelming.

I was referring to what could happen if the 9th circuit were to rule in our favour. There are only two more appeals routes available from the 9th circuit for whoever loses – the case can be heard “en banc” by the 9th circuit (more judges hear it in the 9th circuit) or it could go to the supreme court.

9th circuit may refuse to hear it en banc, leaving only the supreme court. The supreme court can refuse to grant a writ of Certiorari – which essentially means that they can also refuse to hear the case. If they were to do that, the case would end; all appeal routes would be exhausted.

There are several things which could happen, if we win:

1 – 9th circuit win; ruling is narrow and only applies to California

2 – 9th circuit win; ruling is broad, can apply to all states under the 9th circuit (western states)

With regard to DOMA, it is clearly unconstitutional – I honestly can’t see any valid argument, under any standard of review, whereby it does not violate the equal protection clause of 14th amendment of the constitution.

There are now six states in the US, plus DC, plus 18,000 people in California where same-sex couples are married. DOMA was passed at a time where no states permitted same sex marriage. It could, therefore, legitimately (if not morally) be argued at the time that it was not unfairly discriminating against a portion of society.

However, now so many same-sex couples are married, it is in clear violation of the constitution. There is no legitimate state or government interest in these couples’ federal rights being withheld. I think there’s a good chance that the SCOTUS would come down on our side if asked the question on DOMA’s constitutionality.

Living in the UK I find the legal system in the US rather baffling. Courts, Circuit Courts, Supreme Courts and State Laws and Federal Laws. Here we can go all the way to the new Supreme Court which replaced the House of Lords in the UK before taking cases either to the EU’s European Court of Justice or the European Court of Human Rights which deals with non-EU countries as well.

The US court system is reasonably similar to ours. For a civil case, we have County Courts, High Courts, High Courts (Sitting as appeal courts, such as QBD, Family and Chancery), Court of Appeal, Supreme Court and, obviously European Courts for issues under their jurisdiction.

Both systems run the same common-law system of precedent. We have local rules set by local authorities as well as rules set by Parliament as well. It’s not all that different – we gave them our legal system hundreds of years ago!

Tom, many thanks for clarifying that for the rest of us. Do you also think that if this reaches the SCOTUS that even if the five right wing catholics on the bench would actually rule in our favour if they found this to be unconstitutional? The reason I ask is in regard to the Citizens United case where the court overturned precedent and granted corporations actual personhood as though they were human if you will in regard to how much they can donate to a political campaign.

The Christians/Catholics/Mormons are infiltrating all levels of the gay life style to get information on what LGBT are doing and they are making plans so the Christians can get their way. If the Christians can’t win in the court room they have other hidden ways to destroy LGBT people.

Possible conflict of interests happen all the time. In buisness where youd be working against yourself its understandable.

In court they have an oath to abide by the law and the judicial process despite personal oppinion. Like a Dr treats people despite his/her feelings on the patient.

By making a case against a Judge having a personal life in the belief it compromises their ability to rule without bias it is saying you have no faith in the American judicial system. What if was an ethnic Judge ruling on a hate crime, a victim of any crime ruling on any criminal. If you start saying people have ulterior motives and must declare all information on themselves that could in any way relate to the hearing and the accused it makes a mockery of the system your trying to use to persecutee people with in the first place.

Their is curroption that is indemic as its human nature. Greed and disshonesty. But in this manner they really havnt thought their argument through.

This is positve, everyone knows wether they admit it or not , that is is wrong and evil to mistreat others, an to treat others unfair, if you asked anyone would you want to be treated like you are abusing those other people out of hate and harrasment and bigoty , every bigot will stand before a court room and say know if i where gay or a minority or a woman or fat or wear glasses no i would not want to be harrassed and discriminated against an treated unfairly because the case is if you are not harming others and assaulting them, no one else has any right to bother you are be in your private life, without your permission, you go after those who are committing violent and harmful crimes, not people in love and consenting adults having relationships respecting each other and not harming each other like these hetersexual men do , they rape and murder children and the women and even other men, these or the people you need in the court room and jail, marchin against hetersesxual crimes

you must keep all good people on board who are fair, and human rights people the job is to have a foundation of fairness, equality, and human rights , so that they are not acting out injustisces onto people because of bigotry that they harbor and its personal for them, your see people as a people not a color or gender or oreintation , when you are judging cases, you deal with the wether the people have committed offenses against other , like assault , sexual and physiscal are harrasment , meaning danger, then you will know if the perpertrater and instigator of the harrassment is just trying to railroad good people out of spite , hate , and maliciousness and this cannot be allowed , the problem is not the victum which is the person being attacked by the other person or group because they are evil and harrassers, and full of hate, again put them on the same stand and say you hater and klansman, you treat others unjust and unfair, do you want us to treat you and your family the same way,

YOu highly r eprimand the hate group or person for trying to get the court to help them hurt other inocent people and families, and for wasting the courts time and money or assinine rehterisc that they knew was wrong in the first place, and let them know if they dont stay away from those gay famiies who are not bothering them, the next time you will put them in jail for hate crimes and attacks , even when spreading defamation, and slander out of hate, and malice this goes for senators govenors and presidents and all offiscials, and ministries, you treat people right and fairly or be arrested and fired, and shut down, that has to be the mandate and struscture, then you show the goddamn, demons all he faces of young children who has committed suicide because of their hatred and racist abuses, the bigot is alway the evil person in the wrong when the other people are not bothing them , Do you get this, they commiting hate crimes and crimes against humanity, innocent parties, its personal

All good fair officials must stay in offices , the world needs them , to keep trying to civilize an insane world of abusers, of others, THIS IS WHY OBAMA , PELOSI, REID, FEINSTEN, HOYER, PANETTA AND OTHERS HUMAN RIGHTS LIBERALS IN THAT DEMOCRACY MUST NOT EVEY ALLOW REPUBLICAN BIGOTS OR BIGOTS OF ANYKIND, TO BLOCK A NOMINEE FOR A SEAT IN THE HOUSE OR ANYWHERE, SIMPLY BECAUSE THEY ARE GOOD PEOPLE AND ACT OFF FAIRNESS AND HUMAN RIGHTS WHICH MUST BE EVERY ONES BIBLE, STRUCTURE, AND THE ONLY ONE. OBAMA HAS KNOW ESCUSE NOT TO SEAT CANDIDATES THE DEMOCRATS HAVE SELECTED AND CHECKED FOR BEING GOOD CONCERNED AND FAIR PEOPLE FOR THE NATION, YOU DONT PLAY GAMES, AND PAT YOU ON THE HEAD IF YOU DONT LIKE MY CHOICE, EITHER YOU PRODUCE IN ONE WEAK, WHERE THIS PERSON HAS COMMITED CRIMES, AGAINST OTHERS AND TERRORISTIC ACTS AGAINT CITIZENS OR UNFAIR ACTS AGAINST CITIZENS, OR THE PERSON MUST BE CONFIRMED AND SEATED WITHING THAT FIRST WEEK OF BRINGING THEM TO THE BOARD FOR CONFIRMATION, YOU DONT PLAY

YOU dont play padicake, with ememies of civil and human rights, you protect the 14th amendment and constitutional adment of equality and fairness, we must get the nation overhauled promptly, across this nation to good and fair and sane people everywhere, these bigots are trying to destroy this nation, and they are hurting families and business and the character of harmony and saftey, is a nationall security, threat, bigotry is it acts out violence and mailice, and it is already of murder and rapest, serious actions must be taken against those committing crimes against huamnity everywhere and around the whole country, senator mayors and governors and other officials must be fired, and replaced , with people the citizens can trust not to harm their famiies and stay focused on what their paid to do and stop abusing thier jobs and titlles with abusive personal agendas of hate, and malice, jealousy, intimidation, they are suppose to be adrresing and working humanitarian structures, delegat

This nation has been set back and stay in the dark ages instead of real progress, until now a few honary agencies has heard the people angquish and despair because of racism and bigotry and unfairness and took up the mantel to right the wrong of yesteryear and each year since to now, The ACLU, LAMDA LEGAL, LEGAL MOMENTUM, SPLC, GLAAD, HUMAN RIGHTS, IPPF, EMILIES LIST, SLDN, PARODY, AND OTHERS the rest of the natiions must shed the blindness and stand up and move forward in the civil rights and human right marches and implementatins and delegates, righting wrongs naionwide , from the white house to churches, to corporate, to families, hate klans of all kinds and colors ,, must be stopped and shut down, and answer for the blood shed and kaos, and wars, they have disturbed this entire world with, the hetersexual evils, or more than knee deep , the highest problems or Bigotry , and sex crimes, mureder violence , instigated by and from hetersexuals, They must be dealt with-OVERHAUL

yOUR , STRUCTURE MUST BE THE FOUNDATION, OF GOODNESS, FAIRNESS, HUMANESS, WHICH IMPUDES, HUMAN RIGHTS AND SUCEEDS INTO HUMANITY ! your focus , must top the chart with the National security, against bigotry, terrorism, sex crimes, assaults, murder , discrimination, these are all high crimes against humanity, from womens glass ceililngs to women oprression wearing berakas, and mistreated, must be banned and corrected their presence and voice, along with the lgbt community and minorites naionwide for peaceful civililzed families both in gay and hetersexual realms, must be the goal and innitiative, from top to botom, focus as well on the ecomonmy and people and domestici programs as other good samaritans have started in some places, working on homeless shelter, opened and refurbished building opened for them, from veterans, to teens to womens battered centers, an for nation catastropyy , natura weather desaters, making sure their is adequate and safe and efficently and profiently ran,

Stopping false prophets and bad men posing as pastors, from speaking hatred into the ears of children and families causeing wars and family violence, the news said the other day many of the teenagers that where out and about had been vicutms of ignoranate parents caught up in hate relighions who these ignorante adults are really s trangers to the bad minister, and their heart and duty is to their own personal familiey not to a stranger behind a pulpit who is not a biological relative and is really a totall stranger to them, and most of the time never does anything for anyone in the churches they preach hate in but hoard to themseslves, do not even shake hands with many of them , but ignorant, adults, let these hate abusive sychos, tell them to disown, and mistreat their children and loved one and othet neighbors, these types of occult must be shut down, and the false prophet arrested, , their uncivilized and and dangersous and make wars where their are none and would be none, evil

From the united states all the way to africa the false prophets andl liars, promonading as christians , but really klan and terrorist, hate groups, are the main people found out in the news to be sex pedeahiles, sexaully assaluting children, , sex trafficking in the building they call churches and other horrific abuses, like africa , rapping their little chidrens and murdiering them at birth and satanic ritutula blood, human evils, and then they have the nerve to discriminate and defamate the good innocent gender and families which are gay, and a few other civil rights people, the monster are them the w icked liars of hate lying about being a christain, , christaintiy does not have rape and murder and pedehiial, and oppression, and repression, inhumane chracters of abuse and terrorism, hate , the liars, any one can say and they do , that they are aa christian, and get a peice of paper certificate, jeff warens did david karesh did they all wore l ong robes and crosses and bible

Evil does harm an acts out terorism , that causes harm, an thats what bigotry does, false prophets an bad officials of hate, are dangerous to all society , peace an good will to human kind, an a danger to all an children, futures of peace an harmony, all hate groups must be shut down an people arrested for crimes against humanity, you look at the monster behind the badge , the desk the robe, the officie, the puplpit, the title, the actions they commit against other is the only thing you should see, an act upon , its a national security an local security issue an threat, for a civil society of human being getting along an goin on about their busness, as decent people not trying to harm or harrass others , its a must, bigotry, does the opposit, it medddles harrasses , instigates evil an abuses and attacks , GOOD PEOPLE AGAINST IT IS TO BE PRAISED FOR HONORABITIY STRIDES, NOT AS GODS, BUT GOOD PEOPLE WHO SIMPLY CARE, ABOUT OTHERS AS THEY SHOULD, the perpertraters FIRED, ARREST,OVAHAL

YOU STRUCTURE AND BUILD FOUNDATIONS ON LOVE , KINDNESS, EMPATHY , SYMPATHY, AND GOODNESS, HUMANANESS, CHARITY, THERE FORE, YOU WILL SEE HUMANITY, AND HUMAN RIGHTS, AND FARINESS, LENDING TO THE POSITIVE OUT PUTS OF HARMONY , STABILITY , AND BETTER CHARACTERS AND ATMOSPHERERS FOR FAMILIES , CHILDREN AND BUSINESSES, AND THE ECONOMY IN SAFE AND FREINDLY ENVIORMENTS, GET IT IMPLEMENTED AND DELEGATED NOW!!!!! HOW MANY CASUALTIES , OF CHILDREN AND TORN AND DISTURBED FAMIIES DO YOU NEED TO SEE, TAKE OUT THE EVIL INSTIGATORS, THE GANGS ,THE FALSE PROPHETS OF HATE POSING AS CHRISTAINS, THE KLANS, SHUT THEM DOWN, AND RECLAIM AND HUMAN SOCSIETY, OF GOOD CARING CITIZENS, RISE UP NOW AND ACT FOR AND ON HUMAN RIGHTS AND PEACE, EQUALILTY, AND KEEP RISING, KEEP ON YOUR BOXING GLOVES AND LIFTED CIVIL RIGHTS VOICES ACTIONS, UNTIL YOU RIGHT ALL THE WRONGS, NEVER BE SILENT TO ABUSE AND HARRASSMENT, AND UNFAIRNESS, OVERHAUL NOW!!!!!

The proponents aren’t being completely honest here. When some governors appoint judges they want to know now how they would rule on a gay marriage case and they know for a fact that they wouldn’t have asked a judge to recuse himself if he were to rule the opposite of what Judge Walker ruled, also, that would mean NO ONE would be able to rule on this case, and their judicial witch hunt would stop if the judge had ruled their way.

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