Thumb-over technique high up the neck on an 8 string? =) It's already a crippled and unhealthy enough technique on a narrow 6 string neck, makes me cringe. Players need to break their bad habits.

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I know right? I was talking to a luthier about Rick Toone’s trapezoidal profile and he immediately started trashing it saying “well gee whiz when i cup my hand like this *does thumb over neck technique* that doesn’t look like a trapezoid does it?”

Was bummed to see someone who makes guitars expect others to play with that technique. I guess a lot of people do though

It's not a bad habit at all. It's just not a great strategy for playing prog metal on a thin-necked, wide-necked guitar. People trashing on thumb-over are talking like it's objectively bad -- and maybe for certain goals and certain instruments it is -- but I don't think it's surprising if a luthier who doesn't have those musical goals -> doesn't play that way -> doesn't build that type of instrument. Grab a nocaster or a 58 LP, and play something that's all bends in frets 3-12, and see which style is more ergonomic for you.

I'm interested to know why the current batch of guitars in Japan was finished by an unnamed builder in Japan rather than Grover Jackson. I haven't heard/seen anything about the Grover Jackson relationship since the only mention of it back in November.

It's not a bad habit at all. It's just not a great strategy for playing prog metal on a thin-necked, wide-necked guitar. People trashing on thumb-over are talking like it's objectively bad -- and maybe for certain goals and certain instruments it is -- but I don't think it's surprising if a luthier who doesn't have those musical goals -> doesn't play that way -> doesn't build that type of instrument. Grab a nocaster or a 58 LP, and play something that's all bends in frets 3-12, and see which style is more ergonomic for you.

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Thumb over tends to work better for anything involving bends or certain vibrato styles. It shouldn't be a decision between the two but rather learning to use whatever works best for one in any given situation.

I'm interested to know why the current batch of guitars in Japan was finished by an unnamed builder in Japan rather than Grover Jackson. I haven't heard/seen anything about the Grover Jackson relationship since the only mention of it back in November.

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There may have been an amount of time where between the guitars being seized and the connection with Grover Jackson, where guitars that were meant for Japan could have been sent to Japan and finished there quicker.

Thumb over tends to work better for anything involving bends or certain vibrato styles. It shouldn't be a decision between the two but rather learning to use whatever works best for one in any given situation.

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Yea, but you hit the youtube comments sections these days and it's tons of 15 year old metal kids, "Thumb over! Thumb over! Novice! MEDIOCRE!!", etc. when it's like...Cliffs of Dover or something. I've watched vids of EJ playing that -- thumb over all the time when it makes sense. Calling people out on it's just become signaling of some kind.

I know I'm late to the party, but I was going to add that embezzlement from your own company happens all the time. It's basically buying personal stuff with company funds. In other words, buying personal things with pretax dollars. It's usually an IRS issue, since the owner and embezzler are the same person, so the owner is hardly going to turn in the embezzler. So, in this instance, if Frank were audited, he'd have to provide receipts for all of the purchases made through the company. If the total of the receipts didn't match the total for the income or capital of the business, then the IRS starts asking for back taxes with penalties and interest and stuff. That's my understanding of it, anyway. The IRS is really on it with this stuff, because literally no one else would know, because you'd never turn yourself in. People try to rationalize personal purchases as business purchases all the time, but the IRS has specific rules about what qualifies and what doesn't. Anyway, I have a friend who is a CPA and we've talked about what small business clients sometimes do with respect to mixing personal and business stuff like that.

I'm interested to know why the current batch of guitars in Japan was finished by an unnamed builder in Japan rather than Grover Jackson. I haven't heard/seen anything about the Grover Jackson relationship since the only mention of it back in November.

Thumb over tends to work better for anything involving bends or certain vibrato styles. It shouldn't be a decision between the two but rather learning to use whatever works best for one in any given situation.

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Yeah, my thumb usually is behind the neck in the classical position. But for a big bend or a really emphatic vibrato, it sneaks over the top.

I use to play with it wrapped over the top all the time, but I started developing a lot of wrist pain. Moving my thumb to the back of the neck fixed the wrist pain, and eventually I unconsciously developed a habit of having it creep over for certain things and then naturally fall back to behind the neck. That seems to be the best of both worlds, though full disclosure: I'm a real no-talent hack, so I probably shouldn't be giving anyone technique advice.

Even IF they played perfectly, the fit and finish from a ton of photos showed issues unacceptable on a $500 guitar (which usually play just fine, too), and definitely not on a “semi-custom” instrument costing thousands of dollars.

Even IF they played perfectly, the fit and finish from a ton of photos showed issues unacceptable on a $500 guitar (which usually play just fine, too), and definitely not on a “semi-custom” instrument costing thousands of dollars.

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I don't know - do you have photos of these issues on the guitars Frank finished? I remember the "buffing compound" photos from way back, and that was the last I saw, and I saw these guitars in person with my own eyes inches away from them. At least in terms of the neck pocket / alignment / finish transitions around that part, there wasn't anything wrong with them. I didn't hold it in my hands (because the one guy at that shop is pretty ornery), but I gave 3 of them a good look over.

Also, I think that line of what is unacceptable on $X guitar is funny. Semi-custom instruments costing thousands of dollars routinely have fit and finish issues. So you can use a strong word like "unacceptable", but in reality speak, it kind of is acceptable -- because small stuff happens all the time. But unless you post a photo I can't be sure of what exactly you're referring to.