Re: Last Sacred Cow Slaugthered. BOOZE IN MK

Originally Posted by Disneytwins

The one thing we don't know is if Walt would've changed his mind about it. An important thing to consider is the public's change in opinion on beer and alcohol. It's important to consider the demand for it. I remember a lot of guests were asking where they can find some beer or wine. Theres demand and it's their responsibility to adjust to demands. It's not a disregard towards walt Walt, they're doing what Walt did frequently - adjust and change things according to what the public was looking for.

Because no one enjoyed alcohol in the '50s/'60s... If anything, it was even more culturally commonplace (ever watch Mad Men?). Heck, organized crime developed in America - and a lot of people died - because the gov't tried to outlaw the sale of alcohol back in the '20s. It's not like we were a country of prudes until the last few decades.

Walt made a conscious choice to forego short-term profits and buck the status quo by not offering alcohol. If you read anything about the history of Disneyland, Walt was ridiculed by others in the amusement industry who thought that he wasn't doing nearly enough to extract cash from his customers (Walt called them "guests," they called them "marks") - including not selling alcohol - and it's why many thought Disneyland would go belly up within a year. If anything, there was much more reason to sell alcohol then, as no one had yet proven that an amusement enterprise could operate profitably without it. Demand for alcohol is nothing new.

I knew if this business was ever to get anywhere, if this business was ever to grow, it could never do it by having to answer to someone unsympathetic to its possibilities, by having to answer to someone with only one thought or interest, namely profits. For my idea of how to make profits has differed greatly from those who generally control businesses such as ours. I have blind faith in the policy that quality, tempered with good judgment and showmanship, will win against all odds.
-Walt Disney

Re: Last Sacred Cow Slaugthered. BOOZE IN MK

Re: Last Sacred Cow Slaugthered. BOOZE IN MK

Now we're getting in morals of the whole issue. Morals aside, there isn't demand for adult movies at Disney resorts because the place is frequented by families. Beer and adult movies are completely different. There is demand for beer, there is no demand for adult movies.

Pleasure Island closed because they had an interested lessee for Rock N Roll Beach club and they knew that that lessee would be much more profitable for the club. Since they were doing that, they figured it would be great to close the clubs and offer them for retail and then that one interested party pulled out. It has nothing to do with the alcohol and nightlife there at all.

Re: Last Sacred Cow Slaugthered. BOOZE IN MK

Obviously, people can agree or disagree with Walt's reasoning, but that's irrelevant. The question isn't, "Is alcohol good or bad?" The question is, "Should TWDC respect Walt's wishes?" TWDC voluntary choose not to sell alcohol at MK-style parks as a symbolic measure of respect for Walt. They're now choosing to forego that restriction. It's hard to see that as anything other than, "We don't care about respecting Walt's wishes anymore because we can make more money this way."

Do you think Walt was incapable of new thoughts and new opinions as the world around him evolved?

Why do we evoke an opinion formed in a specific time period, in different context, and assume he would never wander from that idea?

Why do we assume a man known for looking forward, not backwards, would never change his mind on this subject even after the product, society, and presentation have all changed?

Why do we assume a thought was permanent?

Reality is we don't know what he would want or think in this world and in this type of theme park.

Not all his thoughts are universal and unchanging in time.

Even Walt himself changed over time.. I don't know why people insist his ideas wouldn't continue to evolve if he lived longer and hence the world needs to be trapped in not what he felt were Universal laws of the Universe, but simply how he felt he should run his park in the 50s and 60s.

Re: Last Sacred Cow Slaugthered. BOOZE IN MK

Hey, Disneytwins. If guests want chewing tabacco should Disney sell it in the park?? TDO needs to stop bending over to every hissyfit the guests have. If they cannot enjoy MK without alcohol then.....THEY SHOULDNT BE THERE.

Re: Last Sacred Cow Slaugthered. BOOZE IN MK

Do you think Walt was incapable of new thoughts and new opinions as the world around him evolved?

Why do we evoke an opinion formed in a specific time period, in different context, and assume he would never wander from that idea?

Why do we assume a man known for looking forward, not backwards, would never change his mind on this subject even after the product, society, and presentation have all changed?

Why do we assume a thought was permanent?

Reality is we don't know what he would want or think in this world and in this type of theme park.

Not all his thoughts are universal and unchanging in time.

Even Walt himself changed over time.. I don't know why people insist his ideas wouldn't continue to evolve if he lived longer and hence the world needs to be trapped in not what he felt were Universal laws of the Universe, but simply how he felt he should run his park in the 50s and 60s.

Re: Last Sacred Cow Slaugthered. BOOZE IN MK

Originally Posted by flynnibus

Do you think Walt was incapable of new thoughts and new opinions as the world around him evolved?

No, but Walt isn't the one making this decision. Regardless of subjective opinions for/against alcohol/morality/image/etc., the facts are this:
1. TWDC used to not sell alcohol in MK parks outside of Club 33
2. The one exception was DLP, ostensibly for cultural reasons and the realities of doing business in that country
3. Disney has now chosen to violate that policy

Regardless of what you think about the policy, the policy existed for a reason, otherwise they never would have had it. Apparently Disney now thinks that reason isn't very important. That means something.

I knew if this business was ever to get anywhere, if this business was ever to grow, it could never do it by having to answer to someone unsympathetic to its possibilities, by having to answer to someone with only one thought or interest, namely profits. For my idea of how to make profits has differed greatly from those who generally control businesses such as ours. I have blind faith in the policy that quality, tempered with good judgment and showmanship, will win against all odds.
-Walt Disney

Re: Last Sacred Cow Slaugthered. BOOZE IN MK

Originally Posted by JCSkipr79

Hey, Disneytwins. If guests want chewing tabacco should Disney sell it in the park?? TDO needs to stop bending over to every hissyfit the guests have. If they cannot enjoy MK without alcohol then.....THEY SHOULDNT BE THERE.

What are the public's views on chewing tobacco and smoking these days? Not good.
Beer is now being considered a craft, just like fine wine and even is healthy in some aspects.

It's all about the societal views are on a particular product.

This is a mug of beer with dinner. Not just a beer kiosk. Things will be fine. People aren't go to Be Our Guest and get totally hammered, especially at eight or nine bucks a glass.

Re: Last Sacred Cow Slaugthered. BOOZE IN MK

Originally Posted by PSUMark

Regardless of what you think about the policy, the policy existed for a reason, otherwise they never would have had it. Apparently Disney now thinks that reason isn't very important. That means something.

The park used to allow smoking...
The park used to close certain days of the week...

There are reasons for those choices that made sense at the time. Things evolved, and so did the policies. No reason this policy can't evolve either.

Let's face it.. the MK is no different from any other of the theme parks in this regard. Its been allowed in those parks and the sky hasn't fallen. So evolution here isn't going to ruin it all.

And if you truely feel so strongly that concepts voiced in the 50s should be strictly adhered to still... I fully expect you to show up to work in a suit and tie and dress up when you do goto a Disney park. After all, it was Walt's desire.