If this is your first visit, be sure to
check out the FAQ by clicking the
link above. You may have to register
before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages,
select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.

Re: Exploring the Ocean

Materializing a submarine is too hard if you're alone and if you do it the normal way (image-training). Maybe it'd take someone 10 years or more to do so. Maybe it'd require a lot of people to materialize the thing. If you're a Hunter you can just buy a damn submarine, and if possible, enhance the sub like how that wheelchair guy from Celestial Tower kind of made his wheelchair better (making it run faster or something).

Kurotopi copies items with no problem with the limit of 1 hour IIRC. Those items still work like the items he copied, but those items have En or something. So if he could copy a building, he could probably copy a working submarine, and could probably copy a working Rose bomb as well with no problem as long as they are used within the time limit.

You can also probably make a nen-ability where you can have a nen-doll dive the ocean for you. The nen-doll might also come with sight and could record what it sees.

Re: Exploring the Ocean

Originally Posted by NoFreakingWay

Kurotopi copies items with no problem with the limit of 1 hour IIRC. Those items still work like the items he copied, but those items have En or something. So if he could copy a building, he could probably copy a working submarine, and could probably copy a working Rose bomb as well with no problem as long as they are used within the time limit.

You can also probably make a nen-ability where you can have a nen-doll dive the ocean for you. The nen-doll might also come with sight and could record what it sees.

Re: Exploring the Ocean

Hard? As far as I know, it's not hard. It's the same training that Kurapika had, but with a submarine. Materializing is not about the complexity of the object but rather about it's special function and that depends on the Oath and Pledge rather than the object itself.

The Sky is pouring
The wind is blowing
The sea looks red,
a surging sea of flames
looks like the entrance to hell
'Perfect', the captain said.

Re: Exploring the Ocean

Originally Posted by Hunter2323

Kurotopi's copies work for 24 hours and then disappear.

Oh I thought it was for one hour. That's better for Kurotopi, right? Thought so. Kurotopi's creations can work as their normal counterparts would in that timespan. You can say that's pretty powerful. Hand him one Rose and who knows how much destruction he can dish.

@ Uriel

Oh that's definitely false right there. Image training is hard. Why do you think most Materialization users only have one thing they can materialize? Kastro is different because he can spend time with himself for a long time, and even Hisoka told him he'd eventually go insane because of his choice to concentrate on Materialization. How about a fricking sub? Where do you get the sub? You have to have an attachment to the sub, by the way. So how do you get attached to a sub? Even if you're a submarine engineer or something it'd probably take an average Hunter 4 years to materialize that crap, because not everyone is as gifted as Kurapika. And if it's any indication, why the heck hasn't there been a humongous Materialized object in HxH yet without using Kurotopi's method? In the anime, Kurapika was only able to add the restrictions by placing a dagger on his heart after he was able to materialize the chain. So what you said is the complete opposite of what just happened in the anime. It took so long for Kurapika to materialize the chains but it took him a short time to add the restrictions since he knew what he wanted to get and he had the determination to get them.

Re: Exploring the Ocean

In that aspect you're wrong. If not all the materialized objects and materialization users wouldn't be able to achieve their techniques. How you train then to make an armor that can resist the heat? It's years of technology. Or how can you make a weapon that HAS A PERSONALITY. Or how can you make a black hole. Or a whole building in the case of Novu.

I'm not saying you do that instantly, but the same training that Kurapika did for the chains can be achieved for ANY object because the size is not a variable in imagination.

The Sky is pouring
The wind is blowing
The sea looks red,
a surging sea of flames
looks like the entrance to hell
'Perfect', the captain said.

Re: Exploring the Ocean

Pretty much everything on Greed Island is materialized in some way, so you can definitely materialize some pretty interesting/realistic stuff. I guess technically you can copy a Rose, but that'd be pretty broken. Besides, the Rose isn't something any character in HXH can obtain. Even Netero must have had it supplied by some big name nation leader, since there was a scene showing some important guy saying if people found this out the association have to take the blame. Yes some people like Gin is said to have the prestiege of a national leader, but I really doubt Gin has a higher political standing than Netero. I know it's hard to believe this stuff can be hard to obtain when there's like a million of them around in the world, but if it was easy to get a Rose, there probably wouldn't be a world left in HXH by now.

Re: Exploring the Ocean

Yeah, I suppose they could explore the ocean or the space! In fact, it's easier to go outside of your planet than going so deep into the ocean.

Therefore, Gin may really go just about ANYWHERE whenever he disappears. He could be on a different dimension, on the depths of the earth/ocean or even on another planet. To give it a simple thought makes it impossible to guess what will Togashi do next. Hatsu should enable one to actually go anywhere.

Re: Exploring the Ocean

Originally Posted by Jack Van Burace

Yeah, I suppose they could explore the ocean or the space! In fact, it's easier to go outside of your planet than going so deep into the ocean.

Therefore, Gin may really go just about ANYWHERE whenever he disappears. He could be on a different dimension, on the depths of the earth/ocean or even on another planet. To give it a simple thought makes it impossible to guess what will Togashi do next. Hatsu should enable one to actually go anywhere.

Assuming the physics in HXH world resembles the real life, it'd be far easier to go in the ocean than space. In real life we can pretty much go to the deepest ocean with just technology alone, but haven't got anywhere further than the moon when it comes to human spaceflight.

Re: Exploring the Ocean

Originally Posted by Uriel

In that aspect you're wrong. If not all the materialized objects and materialization users wouldn't be able to achieve their techniques. How you train then to make an armor that can resist the heat? It's years of technology. Or how can you make a weapon that HAS A PERSONALITY. Or how can you make a black hole. Or a whole building in the case of Novu.

I'm not saying you do that instantly, but the same training that Kurapika did for the chains can be achieved for ANY object because the size is not a variable in imagination.

In both links it's blatantly said that it's the actual visualization process that takes too long, not the process where you install restrictions and pledges on the Materialized items. Once a thing is successfully materialized with ease you can put whatever restrictions you want, which shouldn't take long (explained later). Just watch the old anime for reference.

You don't train things to make them heat resistant, you put some restrictions on them. I thought that was painfully obvious. Putting restrictions on materialized items has no relevance on the level of technology you have. What takes so long is the time to materialize an object because of obvious reasons.

We can also say those "Memory Points" Hisoka once mentioned when you try to create a Hatsu can directly affect which items you can Materialize in the normal way. If you Materialize an extremely complicated object, you could go insane before you complete it. Subs are complicated, not to mention huge, so why bother Materializing the damn thing when you can buy one?

It's wrong to assume that putting personality on objects goes through the same process as putting restrictions on objects. Personality has a direct relationship to the proximity of the user to the Manipulation Hatsu. That's why it's said that it's so complex to put personality on Materialized livings things like Kastro's double, especially for a Reinforcement user like himself.

This is where Kurapika explains which restrictions he puts on some of his chains, like Judgment Chain. It's just a basic reasoning process for someone to put restrictions on Materialized items, depending on their determination.

Size is a determinant for Materialized things because anyone could've just Materialized the whole planet they live on if they wanted to. Only Kurotopi's ability has blatantly said that there's no size limit for his copies. If you're taking the same path as Kurapika did for materializing a submarine you have to know the ins and outs of the submarine enough so that it works like a normal sub.

@Phantron

It doesn't matter if copying a Rose is broken or not, the fact remains that Kurotopi can copy it with no problem and once he gets his hands on one he can nuke the crap out of the planet. It's even said that Kurotopi's copies has no size limit so he could copy the friggin' planet if he wants to. In short, Gallery Fake is damn broken.

Re: Exploring the Ocean

I did not mention Oath and Restriction there, I just said that all that hard training is relevant for the thing materialized. Your first point was "A sub is too big and requires more time training" which I answered with "No, it takes the same time (Considering we're talking of two subject with the same talent) to materialize both a big or small object, a simple one or a complicate one."

Technology is not even an issue, because most materialized items are materialized already with the special property, unable to be explained by science and only lead by a concept that comes from imagination. Again, I don't see Shizuku able to explain where thing goes inside her vacuum since She only knows that it can swallow everything but living things.

And the memory points are referring to how hard is to master a school that is not your own and how much you can do it proficiently but I guess we could discuss that in "How Nen Works"

BTW: You couldn't materialize another world, it would take more aura that not even Meryem has.

The Sky is pouring
The wind is blowing
The sea looks red,
a surging sea of flames
looks like the entrance to hell
'Perfect', the captain said.

Re: Exploring the Ocean

Originally Posted by Phantron

Assuming the physics in HXH world resembles the real life, it'd be far easier to go in the ocean than space. In real life we can pretty much go to the deepest ocean with just technology alone, but haven't got anywhere further than the moon when it comes to human spaceflight.

Actually, you're entirely wrong. We have never achieved greater depths, our technology is far more limited towards deep-sea pressure than outer-space lack of pressure. The Moon is way farther than the bottom of the ocean.

Re: Exploring the Ocean

Originally Posted by Jack Van Burace

Actually, you're entirely wrong. We have never achieved greater depths, our technology is far more limited towards deep-sea pressure than outer-space lack of pressure. The Moon is way farther than the bottom of the ocean.

Note the first descent was manned. They probably stopped doing that because there actually isn't a lot of point to go down that deep. You can't go deeper than that without drilling into the crust, and at that point it's not the ocean anymore.

Re: Exploring the Ocean

Well, I didn't know there were people on board of the bathyscaphe. I've always thought only the machines descended so deep, and that humans stayed on a "shallow" (relatively) place, never achieving those depths for themselves.

But I'll be stubborn and say we never got so deep into our planet than we've been outside from it! The Moon's distance is farther than the Earth's core, and we can reach the Moon but not our core. :P

ALSO, we're able to use artificial satelites everyday (with Solar-Panels), while we barely harvest our magma's heat energy. It's also safe to say there are more man-made structures above our atmosphere than there are below the ocean! ^^