FB- I prefer one HMP/week and then hit MP every other LR. You can up the length of a the MPs easier than the tempos. Ideally, I build up to 7 @ HMP, then race a half. The MPs can easily start at 6 and jump 2-3 miles every time. Mix in 3 or 4, work up to a long MP piece of 12-14.

Two weeks out, I use a workout borrowed from the book of Amuse. 20 miles, second half of the run half mile in/outs at MP -15/+15.

SP: you're definitely right about the physical benefits. but i do get something out of it -confidence. that probably sounds dumb, but the mental battle is so much of it in a marathon, and it seems infinitely more doable to me personally when i have those numbers done. in my prev marathon (which was just my 2nd), my longest LR was just over 24mi IIRC. i like to do a few 20s, then a 21, 22.5, 24. i missed the 21 so this upcoming weekend will be 22.5.

A muse: that's what 80% of my brain was telling me but i couldn't get the other 20% to shut up that's what i'm ending up doing. life happens, gotta deal the cards we're dealt.

on the note of tempos/MP runs..... (in my limited experience) i have never been able to predict my MP at all. it just seems way too out there. how do you guys predict?? i don't have a ton of personal past-marathon-history data to go off of...

i'm hoping that my 4 days incapacitated aka off are why my legs hurt! they rarely feel like this, haha. happy with those times, though... coach said 5k pace. i will likely die of happiness if my 5k pace is ever 6min/mi.

FB- I prefer one HMP/week and then hit MP every other LR. You can up the length of a the MPs easier than the tempos. Ideally, I build up to 7 @ HMP, then race a half. The MPs can easily start at 6 and jump 2-3 miles every time. Mix in 3 or 4, work up to a long MP piece of 12-14.

Two weeks out, I use a workout borrowed from the book of Amuse. 20 miles, second half of the run half mile in/outs at MP -15/+15.

SP: you're definitely right about the physical benefits. but i do get something out of it -confidence. that probably sounds dumb, but the mental battle is so much of it in a marathon, and it seems infinitely more doable to me personally when i have those numbers done. in my prev marathon (which was just my 2nd), my longest LR was just over 24mi IIRC. i like to do a few 20s, then a 21, 22.5, 24. i missed the 21 so this upcoming weekend will be 22.5.

i do agree confidence matters. this is a damn psychological sport after all. how do you pace a 24miler? same way as a 20miler? MP+x% or segmented?

on a side note: decided to add one last minute workout to my last week of taper. it's called intensive interval weather checking. basically you go to work, keep doing your stuff, but always have a browser tab showing the forecast. pace is up to you to define. i am doing every 15mins or so.

SP: lol! i feel ya on the weather checks. i'll be there in 2 weeks... and as for pacing, yeah i guess. for long runs i don't think much about pace unless i have specific plans (like middle 10 @ 7:45 or something). then it's just "easy" which usually 8:10-8:30 ish

Gpops--great report, and WOW on that final 10K! Talk about mental toughness. WTG!

Stig--appreciate the analysis. You're only my list of people who I believe are well overdue for a huge marathon race-day breakthrough.

SamPa--I also have a case of Intensive Weather Checking Syndrome (IWCS).

Zab--of course I'm looking forward to this year's shirt.

262--you know I understand how you feel. Two years ago, I ran Chicago as a training run in 3:27 at the end of an 84 mile week. My goal this Sunday is to not make the Nike Pace Team Coordinate regret his decision to invite me on the team. Oh yeah, and to bring my group to the finish in 3:29:xx. We both need to remember the words from Arthur Ashe, "Start where you are. Use what you have. Do what you can." Not only will be get back to our former selves, we'll surpass it.

Zab and 262--when are you two going to be at the expo? I'll be there almost the entire day on Friday. Noon to 3:15 pm at the Nike Pace Team table/booth, 5:30 to 8 pm at the Chicago Endurance Sports/Fleet Feet Chicago booth.

After a failed workout last Thursday, I put myself on forced taper status for Chicago instead of continue to train through it. 43 miles last week, nothing so far this week. Heading out for 40 minutes tonight with 2 at GMP (8:00).

Getting back on track.Screw that, NACN!! is back on track! Desperately seeking mojo.

NACN - I will get into town Friday evening and hit the expo Saturday. With your long day Friday looks as though I will miss seeing ya until Sunday AM. I am still very seriously considering just running with the group.

And yes, I know we will bounce back. We are still too young and far too resilient.

on a side note: decided to add one last minute workout to my last week of taper. it's called intensive interval weather checking. basically you go to work, keep doing your stuff, but always have a browser tab showing the forecast. pace is up to you to define. i am doing every 15mins or so.

This is excellent!!! This goes right up there w/ BOTT and Baby Tapirs!

Good luck Team Chicago.

FB ~ I haven't figured this marathon thing out yet, but my current thinking/approach for Boston is along the lines of what Zab said. Instead of more MP, some segments just under (b/w MP and HMP) and some longer segments at MP+5%. I had a lot of success doing alterations/in-and-outs for HM. I really like the workout Zab got from A muse who got from Canova.

Nick ~ I tried not to be too creepy!

OMR ~ That injury doesn't sound familiar. That's rare for me to say. I think you can handle the mileage. Just don't become a "Mileage Prostitute"!

dls and anyone else who does (or is interested in) any yoga ~ I really liked the new routine RW posted by Rebecca Pacheco. It perfectly targets runner issues. Awesome toe stretch. She's easy on the eyes too.

Jim - Stig was at Wineglass. My guess is if he had been at Twin Cities he would have BQ'd. I train in same soup he does. While there is good research showing benefits of heat training, training in it is not racing in it. No way I go sub - 3:15 Sunday if I had been running his course.

OMR - Are you due for a cutback week? That may all your body needs.

FB - I like the specificity thinking getting my faster runs around MP as I get closer to race so I would do the HMP LR now and MP 's as approach race.

Gpops - How you feeling? I was sore yesterday but much better today.

Long runs - I feel it is important for me to get one three hour run in and several 2:45's leading up to race. The 3 is LSD.

Got to go. We are leaving Lake Mil Laks and heading to Duluth and Gooseberry Falls. Caught lots of perch and a 25 inch walleye. The fall leaves are awesome And the weather is cool! Going to be tough going back to the soup on Saturday.

on a side note: decided to add one last minute workout to my last week of taper. it's called intensive interval weather checking. basically you go to work, keep doing your stuff, but always have a browser tab showing the forecast. pace is up to you to define. i am doing every 15mins or so.

NACN - Love the pic. Touchdoooown! (or should that be Goooaaaalll! per the sign you are holding?)

FB - I vacillate on the GoRun 2s. At the moment I like 'em, because I've been having some foot issues (posterior tibial tendonitis, but not severe) and the arch support is welcome. I dont't like them for speedwork, but they are fine for everything else. As you might expect the soles wear rather quickly. On the MP runs, I agree with Zab, You can start longer than 4 and ramp them up more than tempo runs. They are not that hard, for realistic values of MP

aggie - Silly me, I should have known that Stig was at Wineglass. So it the course was worse than I thought.

SP - LOL at the weather intervals. Keep hitting that refresh! IIWC? I think we have a new acronym.

All this Chicago excitement is getting to me. Must. Resist. IIWC.

rlk - Ah, the fine art of MP choice. I think most of us who have a few marathons under our belt tend to base it on the last one, then tweak according to how well the training is going, and how fast the course is. Race results help too, of course.

3 x mile at the track last night, My Timex suddenly went nuts and lost my splits (but they were really good!). I think it needs a new battery.Speaking of GoRuns, when I took off my pink/yellow pair after my zippy long run on Sunday, DW gave them The Look. So I took them out back and turned the hose on them.

Rovatti - I'm thinking something orange......(actually I'm still indecisive at this point. I have a USA singlet and flag sleeves that I might wear but only if the weather is in the low 40s) We get into town Friday afternoon and will hit the expo but I will be up for a short run Sat morning if that would work

Jim - what's up with the DWs and the smell issue? For some reason my DW turns her nose up at me every morning as I enter from a run and she has just exited the shower...

FB - I will refrain from any mp/hmp tips well maybe one or two... the plan I use starts with 8MP in a 14 miler and progresses to 16/10, off the top of my head I'd say that in the last 10 weeks there is at least one MP run per week, sometimes two

Aggie - I saw some of the fish pics, nice!

Dad - I thought you did a good job, helped throwing the DW question in there

BK - eat some deep dish pizza for me!

NACN - I'm sure you will prove to Nike that they made a smart choice, and you got orange shoes in the deal!

rlk - I'm already sneaking peeks at the weather.

Sam - best of luck to ya!! and nice on the IIWC

Omar - do you have a Stick and are you using it? +1 to what FB said with the foam roller goes for this as well

Felt more rested this morning, ended up with 12 @ 7:52, just steady GA miles.

Later

______________

"But the from way I see it, you can either run from it, or... learn from it." - Rafiki

FB: Boing! Haha, I know that feeling. I did find a couple of small knots just below the knee, although I don't know if they're the culprit. Regardless, they're getting "the treatment." I think my soleus might be tight...I have trouble keeping it loose on that leg because of restricted ankle flexibility, so bent knee calf stretches don't work for me. So, I'm rolling that as well. +1 to other's comments about ramping up MP miles more quickly. And no, it's not just you. That workout borrowed from the book of Amuse doesn't sound easy to me, either!

IIWC: Ha!

Dad: Ooo..."Mileage Prostitute." Hmm...

Aggie: Hope you enjoy the North Shore! And whether I need it or not, with only 13+ miles in the first three days, this week is going to be a cutback week.

NACN: <<those shoes hurt my eyes...

Nick: Don't have the stick, but yes on the foam roller and a tennis ball.

Hey to everyone...

Well, I woke up without pain so got in 13 @ 8:18. Felt mostly some discomfort above my ankle, and some occasional pain but nothing too serious, and it wasn't the type of pain that got worse as I ran. But, it does seem to hurt worse on inclines (even the ridiculously small ones we have here), and seems to be related to toeing off - over my 4th toe, of course. More rolling and stretching...

Aggie, great to see you caught some fish. Howd the walleye taste? Enjoy NS. Legs were hashed but feel better.

Dad, 9 gentle in the drizxle sound sweet my nizzle.

Jim, Pink and Yellow? Sorry bout the watch, I am debating getting a nother since I did 90%of this cycle without one. Nice traxck workout.

Whats this Facebook crap I hear of,? Is it an inclusive group? Well its official and we have ultrasound pics of the Grandkid I am grandpa or Ghettogrand maybe? Legs feel a lot better but going downstairs still sucks balls. 3 mile walk with dog and off to work. Later Taters.

Baltimore is this weekend as well. I really enjoyed my relay leg last year. But i'm going to be wet and miserable at the beach this year instead. Can't decide if i'm going to run much while there. Probably.

I went out to do a 7 mile tempoish thing to try and get in on the work that's being done around these parts lately, but didn't have it in me. I hit a bunch of lights which broke my rhythm. So I backed of and did the rest at a moderate (7:50) pace. So it goes.

Aggie - Some nice racing by you this year, congrats! I may be a little closer to you next year on occasion, my oldest is awaiting acceptance notice from A&M. If not, Ole Miss. I figure a win either way.

NACN - I love the GoRun 2's. that's all I run in now. I felt silly at first, but eff it, they feel great! (Tony the Tiger just entered my visual there). And great pic, you look like a musclehead. Can't stand those type.

Digby - I'm also getting visions of Chicago and NY before I hang 'em up. Not race, but just to run.

dls - Steelers suck man. I've lost all interest in NFL and now clinging to hope of a Pirates v. Red Sox WS.

Jimbo, Rovatti - what's up guys?

As for me, into my 3rd week of contest training and I'm shedding a few lbs. By the end of 12 I should be down from 175 to about 160. That means I'm throwing some running into the mix now with 3 runs in a row, my longest streak in a year I would say. Only 4 miles at a time, but I'll start bumping up the distance slowly. I submitted an application to a charity team for Boston last week and have a bit of an inside connection so I'm hoping to back door my way in since my last race was B '12. A 5K lined up for the 18th. I promise it will be nothing more than a brisk jog. I promised a local female trainer that has started running that I'd stay with her. Besides, it's a Superhero run and she's Catwoman, meow!

Wow, great MP advice, almost all of which went way over my head. Hard to interpret all the 6x2 x 5 /5 shorthand notations. Informative though!!

Sir Diggby, and NickShawn, I'm going to do Chicago next year also :-) We need a group meet up either pre or post race fotos and festivities.

FornoBravo, Bravo Zulu! Truly a SEAL-like workout thing you've got going on. In fact, I bet you could outdo many of them. How are you not an Olympian?

4@8 today in the rain. I'll have a whopping 13 for the week on this buildup back from injury. Long Beach HM this Sunday. Not expecting a stellar performance. My two HM PR's are just under 1:45. I'll be happy with a sub-2:00 at this point.

Putoluto-recovering and having a HM this weekend isn't ideal, but glad you're back out there.

PJ-not a bad run anyway. Tempos are hard to get into especially if anything breaks your rhythm.

Aggie-happy fishing and recovery. You deserve it.

Dad-sounds like great running weather. I love a little drizzle as long as it's not too cold. 58 is about perfect to me.

FB-great running as always.

Dad-running through the mud can be fun. Good luck on the race.

OMR-good luck with the discomfort. Hopefully the rolling and stretching will take care of it. Nice 13.

Nick-must be rested to have such a nice 12 miler. Sometimes just taking the day off does wonders.

Jim-my wife gives me the same look for all of my shoes. I can't say I disagree with her because after just a couple runs' use, my shoes tend to get pretty stinky. This means they are kept in the garage, but having them in the hot, humid garage just makes the problem worse. Oh well, hopefully running partners don't mind the smell.

Good luck and happy weather thoughts to everybody tapering for Chicago.

I haven't posted in a few days because I haven't run. I've still been recovering from whatever the hamstring issue I had was. I think it was really just a minor strain. I ran a little too hard, with too many strides last Friday, which left the hamstring off, but I still felt okay to run on Saturday for a 6 mile recovery. During the recovery, my hammy felt stiff but I thought I would run it out. On some of the hills, it just kind of gave out and I had to walk the rest of the run. I've bagged all my runs since then, with some aborted attempts Tuesday and yesterday. I just kind of felt the same thing I had been feeling before the hammy gave out last Saturday so didn't wanna risk it.

I finally just ran this morning and although I felt a little bit of the stiffness, it wasn't getting worse through the run or anything. The run was tougher than things had felt before the hamstring issue, so I took it slow and did 10 @ 8:37. It could have been tougher just because I haven't been out there in several days and/or the humidity has returned. So, hopefully, the hamstring issue is behind me. I'm planning on a shortish recovery of 5 or 6 tomorrow, then I've got a 10k to run Saturday, though I don't expect a great time. Good to be back out there.

Gpops - the walleye was oversized so had to release. We stayed at a place on North Shore and had some Canadian Walleye and it was very good. Legs felt much better yesterday so hiked at Gooseberry Falls on the North Shore. Got up this morning and did 3 mile recovery run. Felt good.

TTM - hope he gets into A&M! It will be the best four years of his life. Or five or eight like me.

SP - you are where I was a week ago. Hang in there. It's almost here.

Jim - We are going to get this figured out It wasn't the course, it was the heat and humidity.

Stig, FB and all other Chicago maybes. I said no more large marathons after Boston but I do need one in Illinois....

Leaving the North Shore today and meandering back towards Minneapolis. Really enjoying the country with cool weather and fall leaves. Going to take many nice memories with us.

I finally just ran this morning and although I felt a little bit of the stiffness, it wasn't getting worse through the run or anything. The run was tougher than things had felt before the hamstring issue, so I took it slow and did 10 @ 8:37. It could have been tougher just because I haven't been out there in several days and/or the humidity has returned. So, hopefully, the hamstring issue is behind me. I'm planning on a shortish recovery of 5 or 6 tomorrow, then I've got a 10k to run Saturday, though I don't expect a great time. Good to be back out there.

I finally just ran this morning and although I felt a little bit of the stiffness, it wasn't getting worse through the run or anything. The run was tougher than things had felt before the hamstring issue, so I took it slow and did 10 @ 8:37. It could have been tougher just because I haven't been out there in several days and/or the humidity has returned. So, hopefully, the hamstring issue is behind me. I'm planning on a shortish recovery of 5 or 6 tomorrow, then I've got a 10k to run Saturday, though I don't expect a great time. Good to be back out there.