First let me say that this was an awesome ep for the most part, all the flashbacks of that happened in the alternate timeline were incredible, but I do have a bone to pick with the cliche ending. I mean seriously it seemed totally anti-climatic. It's very obvious that they would not kill off the entire team.

Sorry, I try not to rant about things on the show, however having that kind of ending on an ep that was that awesome was sort of a letdown.

Pharaoh Atem

March 7th, 2008, 10:21 PM

First let me say that this was an awesome ep for the most part, all the flashbacks of that happened in the alternate timeline were incredible, but I do have a bone to pick with the cliche ending. I mean seriously it seemed totally anti-climatic. It's very obvious that everyone will live because they're all in next season.

Sorry, I try not to rant about things on the show, however having that kind of ending on an ep that was that awesome was sort of a letdown.

how do we know Sheppard wasn't dreaming while being in status and the ending never really happen ;)

Ezi_May

March 7th, 2008, 10:24 PM

Ya know, a good portion of the Stargate fanbase doesn't come online and read spoilers. They don't know who is coming back for the next season and since they've seen the show kill off main characters before, it's not out of the realm of possibility. My parent's watch and if it wasn't for me sharing stuff about season 5, they wouldn't know any more than what they saw on tv.

Aurora24

March 7th, 2008, 10:36 PM

Sorry, what I meant to say was that I doubted that they would actually kill off the whole team because no team=no show. Editing post now.

KindlyKeller

March 7th, 2008, 11:01 PM

I can agree about the ending for the reason that it seemed abrupt. But I'm totally willing to forgive it just because the rest was so amazing.

cynatnite

March 7th, 2008, 11:04 PM

The ending was abrupt and cliche which hurt the rest of the episode, IMO. Parts of it I really enjoyed, but the ending I didn't care for at all. I feel little anticipation for the season five opener.

I'm disappointed since this was a very promising episode. Not SGA's best, IMO.

MathiasE

March 7th, 2008, 11:09 PM

The ending was abrupt and cliche which hurt the rest of the episode, IMO. Parts of it I really enjoyed, but the ending I didn't care for at all. I feel little anticipation for the season five opener.

I'm disappointed since this was a very promising episode. Not SGA's best, IMO.

The ending was a bit abrupt yes, however it was better this way than if they had actually found Teyla and saved the day, by leaving her still missing Michael is still a threat for season 5 which he wouldnt have been had she been found.

Firespray

March 7th, 2008, 11:10 PM

It was a pretty great episode until the end IMO, felt kind of meh to me:( Other than that, it was a awesome episode, Carter went out in style:cool:

cynatnite

March 7th, 2008, 11:18 PM

The ending was a bit abrupt yes, however it was better this way than if they had actually found Teyla and saved the day, by leaving her still missing Michael is still a threat for season 5 which he wouldnt have been had she been found.

It did nothing to move the story along. It would have been a good stand alone episode or even a midseason two parter, but a season finale...nope. It wasn't a great way to end a season.

I never expected a happy ending with this one at all. It was a promising episode, but the writers really dropped the ball on this one.

I would have preferred it end with John in stasis than what we got. Either way, there was no story progression at all and with this abrupt and cliched ending it made for a poor episode, IMO.

This comes from someone who think season four is the best one out of the bunch.

MathiasE

March 7th, 2008, 11:23 PM

It did nothing to move the story along. It would have been a good stand alone episode or even a midseason two parter, but a season finale...nope. It wasn't a great way to end a season.

I never expected a happy ending with this one at all. It was a promising episode, but the writers really dropped the ball on this one.

I would have preferred it end with John in stasis than what we got. Either way, there was no story progression at all and with this abrupt and cliched ending it made for a poor episode, IMO.

This comes from someone who think season four is the best one out of the bunch.

Yea i can agree that it would have been better to have it end with him still in stasis or whatever. While it could have been better it could also have been even worse.
All in all im happy with the episode even the the end left much to be desired.

And i totally agree about season 4, or well it's close to s1 at least!

KindlyKeller

March 7th, 2008, 11:32 PM

How can you say there was no story progression? They know what Michael's end-game is now and found out exactly where he was taking Teyla, then went there.

cynatnite

March 7th, 2008, 11:42 PM

How can you say there was no story progression? They know what Michael's end-game is now and found out exactly where he was taking Teyla, then went there.

We already knew basically what Michael was planning before tonight's episode. In Kindred he told Teyla he wanted to destroy the Wraith.

I guess a person can look at that tiny bit of Teyla's location and say it's a progression in the story, but is it one? In one timeline she was there. In another...she wasn't. We're not even sure Shep was in the correct timeline.

Very little information was given in this episode...hence no story progression.

wiseowl777

March 7th, 2008, 11:46 PM

1st my clock went out so i thought it was going to end with the freezing, then when i checked my fone i was shocked there was still 10 min left!

-it shoulda ended with shep emerging through the atlantis stargate and then Not showing us when he arrived or who was there etc. that woulda been more killer. this ending was meh. of course shep, rodney and ronan survied... now lorne? eeee i guess well have to see

wiseowl777

March 7th, 2008, 11:51 PM

also what were they thinking storming into the base like that?
-it was reported that he was missing for 12 days, and teyla isnt due for 2 more months... now in the time line they found her dead very recently. why not do a stealthy mission with the daedlaus in orbit ready to beam them out? i mean did they really expect to get a 7 month pregnant women out of a heavily fortified base on foot? plus they coulda easily beamed out one the realized the sky was falling... and rodney not even checking for Any kinda of safety trap?.... weird, flawed ending that very much had the characters... well... out of character.... but hey 40/44 min totally rocked

jdog

March 7th, 2008, 11:58 PM

12 months!!!, thats a long pregnancy

Mitchell82

March 8th, 2008, 12:09 AM

It did nothing to move the story along. It would have been a good stand alone episode or even a midseason two parter, but a season finale...nope. It wasn't a great way to end a season.
You do understand the concept of a season finale right? To have a well drawn out story ending with a climatic scene. They achieved that.

I never expected a happy ending with this one at all. It was a promising episode, but the writers really dropped the ball on this one.
Where exactly did they drop the ball because I don't see it.

I would have preferred it end with John in stasis than what we got. Either way, there was no story progression at all and with this abrupt and cliched ending it made for a poor episode, IMO.

This comes from someone who think season four is the best one out of the bunch.
I disagree. Ending it like this adds alot of drama to the ep because we don't know the fate of our team.

Mitchell82

March 8th, 2008, 12:11 AM

also what were they thinking storming into the base like that?
-it was reported that he was missing for 12 days, and teyla isnt due for 12 months... now in the time line they found her dead very recently. why not do a stealthy mission with the daedlaus in orbit ready to beam them out? i mean did they really expect to get a 7 month pregnant women out of a heavily fortified base on foot? plus they coulda easily beamed out one the realized the sky was falling... and rodney not even checking for Any kinda of safety trap?.... weird, flawed ending that very much had the characters... well... out of character.... but hey 40/44 min totally rocked
Uh what biology class did you take? Women are pregnant for 9 months not 12. And she is far from helpless it's not like they need a special squad to bring her.

cynatnite

March 8th, 2008, 12:35 AM

You do understand the concept of a season finale right? To have a well drawn out story ending with a climatic scene. They achieved that.

Where exactly did they drop the ball because I don't see it.

I disagree. Ending it like this adds alot of drama to the ep because we don't know the fate of our team.

My point is they added nothing to the story. It did not progress at all. That's why this was not a good season finale. The ending was abrupt and very anti-climatic. It resemebled a lot of season finales from the 80's.

They dropped the ball because of all the above. No progression of the story and a lame ending that's been done to death. That's why I called it abrupt and cliched.

Season four is the best out of all of them, IMO. This episode was just a rotten way to end it. Hopefully, season five will start off much better than season four ended. :)

The_Carpenter

March 8th, 2008, 04:20 AM

I agree that the ending really let the episode down. As others have said it should of ended when John returned to present day Atlantis and explained the situation to Mckay and Carter.

freetoken

March 8th, 2008, 06:02 AM

Agree that the ending could have been better.

IMO, if they had ended as the countdown was being shown on the screen, just as McKay and Lorne figure out what it is... that would have left more suspense and skipped the poor CGI of a building collapsing (e.g., the walls fall too quickly.)

dasNdanger

March 8th, 2008, 07:05 AM

how do we know Sheppard wasn't dreaming while being in status and the ending never really happen ;)

AAAARRRRRRGGGGGHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!

I was gonna say something deep and thought-provoking about the ending...but now I have to mull THIS over instead.

Thanks.

:mckay:

;)

das

jyh

March 8th, 2008, 05:08 PM

I thought this was a great episode. Although, to be a bit nitpicky, when Carter said "this is such a wild story, I have to be suspicious," Sheppard should have said "Yeah, about as wild as travelling to 1969, or back to ancient Egypt, or a couple hundred years into the future." That'd show her!! ;)

I thought they might find Teyla still alive, but the baby gone, so they could start Season 5 with a number of episodes on a mission called "the search for Teyla's baby."

Once I saw it was an ambush, yeah, it might've been a bit cliched, but wouldn't it be cool if the whole '48,000 years into the future' thing was an elaborate scheme by Michael to get Shep's team at that exact place at that exact time? Yeah, it's way TOO elaborate, and all he needed to do was leak a bit of intel for Shep to get a hold of, and the team would have charged in to save Teyla and fall into the trap. (Plus, if Michael could rig the gate to send Shep to another planet for 12 days, and create an exact replica of a sand-covered Atlantis--not to mention of hologram of 60-year-old Rodney--then Michael has enough technology & know-how to do what he likes without having to bother with nasty old warehouses in bad CGI.)

:cool:

wiseowl777

March 9th, 2008, 03:42 PM

Uh what biology class did you take? Women are pregnant for 9 months not 12. And she is far from helpless it's not like they need a special squad to bring her.

All I could think of when I saw the ending was WTF??? I mean really?? Ending a damned good ep with the team trapped in a exploding/collapsing building?? Yeah.....lame and very anti-climatic.

I'm not even remotely sitting in anticipation waiting for S5 so I can see how the team survives and how this story plays out.

I thought for a season finale, the ending could have been much better thought out and executed.

o-0

March 9th, 2008, 04:28 PM

Yea..the cliffhanger was pretty bad. I wanted to see the start of a showdown between Michael and Sheppard+Ronon with Teyla strapped to a table. That would've been much more exciting and suspenseful than what the writers came up with. Then in the first episode of season 5, the fight starts/continues and suddenly Todd comes with a hive ship, bringing in reinforcements to combat the hybrids. THEN, to top it off, Weir and her replicator gang comes to kidnap Shep's team via beaming them off the planet and destroys the facility from space. We wont know what happens to Todd, Michael, and Teyla but the plot would focus on the team trapped on Weir's ship for that episode. It's like a story sent down from the Gods.

cas315

March 9th, 2008, 04:39 PM

Agreed!

YutheGreat

March 10th, 2008, 07:59 AM

First let me say that this was an awesome ep for the most part, all the flashbacks of that happened in the alternate timeline were incredible, but I do have a bone to pick with the cliche ending. I mean seriously it seemed totally anti-climatic. It's very obvious that they would not kill off the entire team.

Sorry, I try not to rant about things on the show, however having that kind of ending on an ep that was that awesome was sort of a letdown.

Do guys think that if they ended the story at the return of Shepard it simillar to SG-1 earlier episodes Season 1 or 2 I think Daniel and the quantum mirror. He got an intel and gate address where Apophis will launch his two motherships from. Maybe they don't want people to compare the two so they ended it with a that ending in the Last Man.

VSS

March 10th, 2008, 06:37 PM

I thought this was a great episode. Although, to be a bit nitpicky, when Carter said "this is such a wild story, I have to be suspicious," Sheppard should have said "Yeah, about as wild as travelling to 1969, or back to ancient Egypt, or a couple hundred years into the future." That'd show her!! ;)

I thought they might find Teyla still alive, but the baby gone, so they could start Season 5 with a number of episodes on a mission called "the search for Teyla's baby."

Once I saw it was an ambush, yeah, it might've been a bit cliched, but wouldn't it be cool if the whole '48,000 years into the future' thing was an elaborate scheme by Michael to get Shep's team at that exact place at that exact time? Yeah, it's way TOO elaborate, and all he needed to do was leak a bit of intel for Shep to get a hold of, and the team would have charged in to save Teyla and fall into the trap. (Plus, if Michael could rig the gate to send Shep to another planet for 12 days, and create an exact replica of a sand-covered Atlantis--not to mention of hologram of 60-year-old Rodney--then Michael has enough technology & know-how to do what he likes without having to bother with nasty old warehouses in bad CGI.)

:cool:

Excuse me, I have to leave now. My brain is full.;)

But it would be wild if the whole thing was "just pretend"- only then folks would whine that is was too much like "Out of Mind/Into the Fire" with the SGC mock-up instead of too much like "Within the Serpent's Grasp/In the Seprpent's Lair" which was the Apophis thing.

I just thought it was a great episode, and to end it like that was just- weird. It didn't fit. It was a visual non-sequitur. And, we know they aren't going to all die so it ended up just being a cheesy ending to an otherwise clever episode.

Jedi_Master_Bra'tac

March 11th, 2008, 02:16 PM

did anyone else lol at the ending? just the way the building came down was really funny

ciannwn

March 11th, 2008, 02:49 PM

I interpreted the ending to mean that they messed up at their first attempt to alter the future. Michael was supposed to take Teyla there to have her baby. Rodney fiddled around with that booby trapped console and the place blew up so Michael will take her somewhere else. They will have a race against time now to find the new place so they can rescue her in time.

VSS

March 11th, 2008, 02:49 PM

It looked like a professional demolition, didn't it? You know, the kind you see on TV- like when they destroyed the Stardust Casino in Vegas. It came straight down, perfectly.

VSS

March 11th, 2008, 02:57 PM

I interpreted the ending to mean that they messed up at their first attempt to alter the future. Michael was supposed to take Teyla there to have her baby. Rodney fiddled around with that booby trapped console and the place blew up so Michael will take her somewhere else. They will have a race against time now to find the new place so they can rescue her in time.

Well, that would explain (S5 spoilers) Seeing Sam in the puddlejumpers in the photos for Season 5, wouldn't it? They can't predict solar flares, so they have to use the PJ to time travel. I wonder how many times they have to try to fix the time line. Kind of like a cross between Avatar and Moebius. The future may be a bit resistant to change, huh?

Elanthra

March 13th, 2008, 07:55 AM

Wow, that was different...

To have a narrative type story rather than guns blazing from every ship in the Galaxy for a Season finale. It was moving and well-done.(Favourite bit, Ronon and Todd.)

Then, it sorta side-stepped and TLM became Kindred 111, ordinary and with yet another warehouse. You could ask why Michael needs all these warehouses? His spaceship looks big enough to me to carry out all his sinister and evil experiments in. But a planet-hopping spaceship is difficult to track down and the boys just have to play with their toys, guns and things...

No. The exploding warehouse wasn't much of a climax. We all know they'll survive. And probably unscathed, out in the nick of time and all that, as they need to rescue Teyla from Warehouse No.4...And that awful VFX (right word?)
I know they can't go around blowing up real buildings, but...

My theory is there was more than one ending originally written for TLM. TPTB were threatening to axe the show and this might have been the final finale and experience has shown them we don't like our characters just riding off into the sunset to fight another day. We need proper closure. This episode killed off all our characters (all in a fitting way) and an ending might have shown Shep's demise or hinted at it e.g. the gate wouldn't dial, Rodney had gone and Shep. is seen wandering lonely and silent corridors, remembering the past, esp. with flashbacks to Rising, when it all started...(FanFic Over!) Then TPTB changed their minds and a sub was brought on and subs are not always your better players. The gap had to be filled with a link to Season 5. My theory...why it all seems a bit clumsy and tagged on at the end.

And I have a question about the ending...

Why did Shep. disappear for 12days? He was only on the sandstorm Atlantis for a day. Time to dial the Gate to get back to the planet where he'd left Lorne and dial the Atlantis gate(I assume he couldn't dial one Atlantis gate directly to the other) an hour at the most? Where did the 11 days go? If 11 days is the equivalent in real time of spending 700-1000 years in stasis, I'm sure it wasn't mentionned.

Anyway, we mustn't criticize too much, otherwise, TPTB might decide we don't like SA anymore and get that axe out again...

P.S. (Can't help it!!) Why were Shep's sunglasses so squeaky clean after the sandstorm?!!

The_Carpenter

March 13th, 2008, 08:01 AM

And I have a question about the ending...

Why did Shep. disappear for 12days? He was only on the sandstorm Atlantis for a day. Time to dial the Gate to get back to the planet where he'd left Lorne and dial the Atlantis gate(I assume he couldn't dial one Atlantis gate directly to the other) an hour at the most? Where did the 11 days go? If 11 days is the equivalent in real time of spending 700-1000 years in stasis, I'm sure it wasn't mentionned.

The length of time Shepard spent in the future bares no relation to the length of time he was missing in the present ;)... welcome to time travel.

ciannwn

March 13th, 2008, 08:03 AM

Why did Shep. disappear for 12days? He was only on the sandstorm Atlantis for a day. Time to dial the Gate to get back to the planet where he'd left Lorne and dial the Atlantis gate(I assume he couldn't dial one Atlantis gate directly to the other) an hour at the most? Where did the 11 days go? If 11 days is the equivalent in real time of spending 700-1000 years in stasis, I'm sure it wasn't mentionned.

It could be that using solar flares for time travel isn't 100% accurate. The best that the Rodney hologram could do was send Sheppard back to around the time he left and it happened to be 12 days afterwards instead of a few days before.

Mitchell82

March 13th, 2008, 11:56 PM

All I could think of when I saw the ending was WTF??? I mean really?? Ending a damned good ep with the team trapped in a exploding/collapsing building?? Yeah.....lame and very anti-climatic.

I'm not even remotely sitting in anticipation waiting for S5 so I can see how the team survives and how this story plays out.

I thought for a season finale, the ending could have been much better thought out and executed.
Well I disagree. I feel for a season finale it was the best they've done.

KindlyKeller

March 14th, 2008, 12:24 AM

Yeah, regarding the Shep-was-gone-12-days thing...

The use of solar flares isn't a to-the-millisecond precise science. Rodney said he needed to get John back "within 2 months" of his original disappearance. Luckily, he was able to calculate to the short end of that.

Repli!kat

March 18th, 2008, 10:32 AM

When I first watched this ep I too thought they could have ended it with Shep in stasis or in some other way, for reasons posters have mentioned before. But the more I think about it, I actually like this ending (other than the silly CGI). Rodney spent his entire Alt timeline life finding a way to send Shep back to "save the universe," and at first it looks like he succeeds. We (some of us anyway) breath a sigh of relief; the team can find Teyla, stop Michael from taking the baby, our heroes won't die and all will be well. So they make their way to the warehouse and "BOOM - SQUASH" - it's all for naught!
It's really kinda ironic to me that after all the angst, the drama, the wrecked lives and galaxies, that Rodney's 25 year quest to right the universe is possibly undone by using the very info he provided.
Kinda the feeling I get when I watch this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_HQPAGagdxM