Union whats that? There is no chapter in my area for me to join. If i were to even bring it to my station they would go ape ****. So I for one can not sit here and say i do or do not like unions. For teh simple fact that people in the south don't like them. Why? got me..

It looks as though you volly's are the problem here. Good example is right in front of us... this is a career posting board and you slap happy blue light bar Pennsyltucky yahoos come on this board telling us we're no good and so on. I know deep inside all you yahoos want to be career firefighters. I think the reason why you're not is: A You either don't have the "marbles" to do so as a career because you are expected to work or: B you waited too long, have a family now and can't afford the pay cut to start the job. I never had a problem with volly's before but, I'm tired of hearing all you yahoos yelling about how "bad" the paid firefighters are. All the guys I know who volunteer wish they went the paid route, so do a lot of cops. Go back to the volly board and tell each other how bright your blue lights are and leave us alone. We talk about issues here that concern paid firefighters such as labor relations and pensions, something that dosen't concern the vollys. God bless the unions!

You seem to have some hostilites built up. Contrary to popular belief, not every volunteer wants to be a career firefighter. I lost interest in the career Fire Service after volunteering in a combination department. The career staff and their attitudes toward the Vollies in our system is terrible. And your line about people starting families and not being able to take a pay cut is true. I chose to pursue a career where I could make good money Immediately instead of applying for a job as a firefighter. I mean I would've just LOVED to sit in a high School gym with 1500 other people taking a test to compete for one of those coveted 40 positions on some fire department. You know, so I could sit around all day at work with guys like you and talk about how great the union is, where were gonna go after shift to drink beer, how the TICKS and SCABS screw us over, how bad the Chief is because he won't bow down to the Union and how we have to keep running calls that interrupt our Lounging after hours. Yeah, instead I went and applied for a federal job, had an interview, started working and am making excellent money with great benefits! All WITHOUT a Union! So before you pass judgement on volunteers as a whole, maybe you should shut your AFL-CIO yap and actually talk to some of us. Cause it is not every Volunteer Firefighters dream to become a career Firefighter.

CW7704
You seem to have the hostilities built up, not I. Maybe you see guys sitting around in Maryland, although I doubt it, it's not like that here in the Northeast or Mid-Atlantic states. You say you took a federal job? What's that supposed to mean, you take EVERYBODYS tax money instead of the towns? I'm sure you earn your money just like we earn ours. If you read my last post, I do talk to the vollys, they all wished they had gone the paid route, or did you skip that part. I said before I never had a problem with vollys before this board, It looks like just a bunch of jealous wannabe's blowing smoke up our a**es. The vollys around here don't bust our chops and the paid firefighters around don't bust theirs. You had the problem of a combination department, thats like mixing bleach and ammonia, you know what happens when you do that? Well, need I say anymore? As far as the test? Only the strong survive I guess. Have a nice day.

CW7704, I am so glad you did all of those great things,..."applied for a federal job, had an interview, started working and am making excellent money with great benefits! All WITHOUT a Union!" That is great.

I think I will give you an ATTA BOY!!!! Pretty impressive.
I don't know how you "FEDERAL", (OOOOOH,) guys do it, but we don't sit around and talk about how great the union is, and where we are going to go after shift to drink beer, how the TICKS and SCABS screw us over, how bad the Chief is because he won't bow down to the Union and how we have to keep running calls that interrupt our Lounging after hours. That is not how it is, apparently you will never know what it is like. I like my job, the pay is okay, we have good benefits, I work an average of 10 days a month. Mr. Volunteer sergeant, police dispatcher, FEDERAL man I don't know why you want to down the paid guys for, the union, and yourself. Good Luck with your FEDERAL job, and remember....ALWAYS SUPPORT YOUR LOCAL UNION.......

Are you guys still arguing about this? When will you learn a bunch of volunteers come trolling into this forum just to keep this debate going.They will never learn, you can not enlighten them, so its just as well to igore them.

kfd26710&wrd11402 As far as your replies to my last two threads I think the both of you need to go back, and re-read them because in neither did I criticize I just answered questions that were asked.I explained my past experiances,not to criticize,Because it seems that yall read these post's to look for something to start an arguement about not to use it for it's real intent for reasonable conversation,as well as for people to learn from others,get a grip gentalmen,and come back to reality (we're all out there to do the same job)and another problem is your both talking about two differant things,and putting them together,seperate them,and maybe you will understand what the post,s were realy about,and that is the last that I want to have to say about the subject have a good day gentalmen,and be safe.

Hey Smoke286 To answer no I'm not still arguing,they just want to keep it going,you know the phrase evrybody has there own oppinions,and they are like a_ _ h_ _ _ _ s everybodys got one,and they all stink.be safe my friend see ya.

THIS IS NUTS!!!!

I don't know why there is even a question about this topic.
Irregardless of who gave the order, if it is an unacceptably dangerous one, you refuse it and explain why.If not as we say in my local,"DO NOW, GRIEVE LATER!!!"

"Not for fame or reward,Not for place or rank. Not lured by ambition or goaded by necessity. But in simple obedience to duty as they understood it. These men suffered,sacrificed,dared all, and died. Let us never forget our fallen friends."

You're welcome prkguns. I've been following this thread hoping someone would stop sniping at each other long enough to see the big picture. A couple of folks tried, but they were drowned out by the vols who are to self absorbed to see the good that the IAFF has done for the fire service as a whole, and the paid union guys who can't seem to believe that any vollie could possibly be competant.

Also, for the union guys, why not just address the problems you have had in the appropriate manner? (I.E.- GRIEVANCE,ARBITRATION, NLRB CHARGES!!)

"Not for fame or reward,Not for place or rank. Not lured by ambition or goaded by necessity. But in simple obedience to duty as they understood it. These men suffered,sacrificed,dared all, and died. Let us never forget our fallen friends."

Hey Jam, I don't care what the thread say's, the board is CAREER AND PAID! You need to get your Pennsyltucky yahoo head educated and learn how to read first. Volunteers don't COMMAND career, they have all they can do to COMMAND respect when they are like you yahoos!!!

The only thing a Vollie officer should be in charge of is maybe a pancake breakfast or a bean supper. I thank god I am surrounded by paid fire dep't so I don't have to deal with Yahoo Officers. I know that when another Cities Officer shows up scene he holds that position because of experience,education and respect He or She deserves.. Not because of a 2/3 Majority vote.. Yes there are good and bad officers Paid and "Sparky" ,the Bad Sparky's are far worse then Real Officers. My recomendation's if at all possible, leave the vollies to burn there own buildings down. If you swap RIT's Then as soon as They have Vollie power at there incident, ask to be relived.Then Go back to your paid district where your taxpayers who wan't a real dept expect you to be anyhow. Hope this helped

"Not for fame or reward,Not for place or rank. Not lured by ambition or goaded by necessity. But in simple obedience to duty as they understood it. These men suffered,sacrificed,dared all, and died. Let us never forget our fallen friends."

BRETHREN!

Silly me, I thought L-1619 had cornered the market on ”AROGANCE,””IGNORANCE” and ”SELF RIGHTSIOUSNESS”
This is what happens when one is so narrow minded, it makes it hard to carry on an intelligent conversation about a subject. Instead they resort to attacks and slander.

The topic is, “Volunteer Officers Commanding Career Personnel” and the only reason I can gather from here is you don’t like it just because they are volunteers. I haven’t heard one good reason why you don’t like it, only just because they are volunteers. This is what shows your ignorance.

I am sure no one will mind if you pack up your toy’s and head back to your all career hole if you don’t think you can hang with the volunteers. The fire will go out without you. It may even go out faster.

If you are that worried about volunteer officers, maybe you should have yourselves taken off of any mutual aid assignments you have where you run with volunteers and stay in your all career hole so you won’t have to deal with it. It will probably make the fire ground run a lot smoother.

Or better yet, why don’t you people grow up. From your own mouths you agree that you have officers on the career side that are just as bad. I am one volunteer who agrees that the popularity contest for choosing officers sucks…..It’s wrong…..and it needs to be changed. But until it can be changed this is what we have to work with and we need to do our best at getting the most qualified people into these positions.

If IAFF members would put a little of the effort they use attacking volunteers into trying to work with them maybe some good changes can take place. But as long as you continue to attack the volunteers things will never change. Stop thinking just because you get paid to do the same job volunteers do for free that it makes you more professional. ’WRONG”

I almost hate to get involved in this thread, but here goes.
The issue of who is in command at a scene is a LOCAL issue.
All the bashing that is going on here will NOT change the situation
in your jurisdiction. If career firefighters feel this strongly about
this go to your municipality and request to be taken out of the mutual aid pact. When this happens the problem is solved!!!
I only see two considerations that you need to examine.
1-What will the public perception be of this move?
2-If you do not want to assist them, they will not assist
you--it works both ways.
If niether of these issues bother you then request to be taken out
of your mutual aid pact with volunteer departments and the problem is gone. If you are not prepared to do this then quit bashing just for the fun of it. These forums are PUBLIC and I do not believe we are putting our best foot forward in this thread.
Just my thoughts!!