Will be veeery interesting to see the owners approve the next couple owners, regardless of team.

Do they look extra hard at them? Probably, but it will be fun to compare them to Haslam.

I forget and am lazy. But I believe DeBartolo's indiscretions came after his being accepted by the league.Haslam's problems pre-date the vetting process.

Say I am a prospective owner, and I really want a team and can afford it, and I am legally above reproach. Say the league doesn't want me- do I have a Haslam card to play? I suppose the NFL has the right to say no to anyone, without owing reasons...

noles1 wrote:By almost any writer (King covered it in MMQB today) in NFL circles this is a HUGE story. Nearly everything I have read compares it to Eddie D in San Fran with all indications being that it may take Jimmy a miracle to keep the team thru all the investigation and likely indictments.

Basically what could save him is the Company being able to stop-gap the blame before it gets up to Haslam's level. The Compton situation though could still put things in jeopardy nonetheless.

The same Peter King article that suggests Jim Brown would be a good owner? Agreed things are heating up, one week later (of course the tradegy in Boston had a lot to do with the initial lack of coverage).

I still maintain this will have little or no effect on the Browns. Other than the owner is a lying fucking crook, which might mean the perpetual suck continues well into the future.

No way the NFL makes any move until the indictments are handed down, which I doubt will happen. Jimmahs bro will help broker some settlement, Pilot Flying J pays a fine, some sales guys get fired, and the Browns will continue to wander aimlessly through this season and many more.

I don't need to be patient, they're going to be shit forever. - CDT, discussing my favorite NFL team

googleeph2 wrote:Will be veeery interesting to see the owners approve the next couple owners, regardless of team.

Do they look extra hard at them? Probably, but it will be fun to compare them to Haslam.

I forget and am lazy. But I believe DeBartolo's indiscretions came after his being accepted by the league.Haslam's problems pre-date the vetting process.

Say I am a prospective owner, and I really want a team and can afford it, and I am legally above reproach. Say the league doesn't want me- do I have a Haslam card to play? I suppose the NFL has the right to say no to anyone, without owing reasons...

Off Topic:That probably would be enough to get a NHL team under Bettman's watch

"Cocaine is a hell of a drug" - Originated from a famous skit in Dave Chappelle's "Chappelle's Show". The skit would portray Rick James, usually high on cocaine, preforming doing crazy and stupid things, such as smacking Charlie Murphy in the face. Rick James would frequently explain away his actions by saying "Cocaine is a hell of a drug".

noles1 wrote:By almost any writer (King covered it in MMQB today) in NFL circles this is a HUGE story. Nearly everything I have read compares it to Eddie D in San Fran with all indications being that it may take Jimmy a miracle to keep the team thru all the investigation and likely indictments.

Basically what could save him is the Company being able to stop-gap the blame before it gets up to Haslam's level. The Compton situation though could still put things in jeopardy nonetheless.

The same Peter King article that suggests Jim Brown would be a good owner? Agreed things are heating up, one week later (of course the tradegy in Boston had a lot to do with the initial lack of coverage).

I still maintain this will have little or no effect on the Browns. Other than the owner is a lying fucking crook, which might mean the perpetual suck continues well into the future.

No way the NFL makes any move until the indictments are handed down, which I doubt will happen. Jimmahs bro will help broker some settlement, Pilot Flying J pays a fine, some sales guys get fired, and the Browns will continue to wander aimlessly through this season and many more.

Gotta disagree here on a few things. Part of this investigation HAD to be politically motivated, so I think he can kiss any help from his brother goodbye, I just don't think it will happen.

The Feds WANT Jimmah, not the head sales guy, so keep that in mind.

I do agree the NFL won't do a thing until the Indictments are handed down, but I think that will happen right around the time training camps open, because the Feds LOVE to fuck with people they already have the goods on.

noles1 wrote:By almost any writer (King covered it in MMQB today) in NFL circles this is a HUGE story. Nearly everything I have read compares it to Eddie D in San Fran with all indications being that it may take Jimmy a miracle to keep the team thru all the investigation and likely indictments.

Basically what could save him is the Company being able to stop-gap the blame before it gets up to Haslam's level. The Compton situation though could still put things in jeopardy nonetheless.

The same Peter King article that suggests Jim Brown would be a good owner? Agreed things are heating up, one week later (of course the tradegy in Boston had a lot to do with the initial lack of coverage).

I still maintain this will have little or no effect on the Browns. Other than the owner is a lying fucking crook, which might mean the perpetual suck continues well into the future.

No way the NFL makes any move until the indictments are handed down, which I doubt will happen. Jimmahs bro will help broker some settlement, Pilot Flying J pays a fine, some sales guys get fired, and the Browns will continue to wander aimlessly through this season and many more.

Gotta disagree here on a few things. Part of this investigation HAD to be politically motivated, so I think he can kiss any help from his brother goodbye, I just don't think it will happen.

The Feds WANT Jimmah, not the head sales guy, so keep that in mind.

I do agree the NFL won't do a thing until the Indictments are handed down, but I think that will happen right around the time training camps open, because the Feds LOVE to fuck with people they already have the goods on.

This season is totally screwed.

You make some valid points. This season has always totally screwed; now even more so.

I don't need to be patient, they're going to be shit forever. - CDT, discussing my favorite NFL team

Candidly, I think Trey skates legally in the end with some form of non-catastrophic (no jail but pleads down and faces a major fine) punishment. See also, Eddie D.

The key is whether the good ole boys and Rog puts up with the back eye. See also, Eddie D.

My guess: if Trey wants to outlive this badly enough he will. But after the indictment that seems almost inevitable he'll be fined and suspened by the NFL. Then Banner's Master Plan for total control of the Death Star will be complete. Laser in position in 3...2...1.

If Trey does fatally go down, let it be fast. Worst thing we need is yet more prolonged instability.

Since I think he's a doosh and has heretofar made nothing but putrid decisions, I hope it happens quickly. At $ 1 billion most large to move this pile of dung, I doubt it.

noles1 wrote:By almost any writer (King covered it in MMQB today) in NFL circles this is a HUGE story. Nearly everything I have read compares it to Eddie D in San Fran with all indications being that it may take Jimmy a miracle to keep the team thru all the investigation and likely indictments.

Basically what could save him is the Company being able to stop-gap the blame before it gets up to Haslam's level. The Compton situation though could still put things in jeopardy nonetheless.

The same Peter King article that suggests Jim Brown would be a good owner? Agreed things are heating up, one week later (of course the tradegy in Boston had a lot to do with the initial lack of coverage).

I still maintain this will have little or no effect on the Browns. Other than the owner is a lying fucking crook, which might mean the perpetual suck continues well into the future.

No way the NFL makes any move until the indictments are handed down, which I doubt will happen. Jimmahs bro will help broker some settlement, Pilot Flying J pays a fine, some sales guys get fired, and the Browns will continue to wander aimlessly through this season and many more.

No way.

When you price fix taquiters the full weight and might of the federal government will come down upon ye.

Here's how it worked: Pilot Flying J secured business from certain trucking clients by offering discount rates if those companies bought fuel from Pilot Flying J stations exclusively. Certain discount rates, called "Cost Plus" discounts, were based on an index that tracked the average price that gas stations pay for fuel nationwide. Pilot Flying J would sell customers a discount based on that index, calculated by the Oil Price Information Service (OPIS), plus a set number of cents per-gallon. Clients paid full price for the gas at the pump, then Pilot Flying J would cut them a rebate check each month.

But not everybody can monitor the index. According to a white paper by fuel card company Wex, "The expense of accessing OPIS data services -- upwards of tens of thousands of dollars per year -- creates a firewall between the fleet company and its pricing provider."

Pilot Flying J, the affidavit suggests, abused that firewall, especially for smaller "less sophisticated" customers. Certain associates would gauge whether or not clients monitored the index. If it seemed like they didn't, sales associates at Pilot Flying J allegedly cut those clients a rebate check for much less than they had earned. The deception benefited individual employees' sales-commission numbers as well as the company's bottom line.

But here, Pilot employees explain it best. An undercover FBI informant recorded Brian Mosher, director of sales for national accounts at Pilot, explaining the type of customer to screw over. "I'm sending cost-plus pricing to a guy that has absolutely no idea what cost-plus pricing is. [That] guy does not deserve premium pricing from us, in my opinion, because he's not willing to go back and do all the work on it."

Or, perhaps more graphically by Pilot VP of sales John Freeman, during a meeting on October 25, 2012: "Hey, this is a game. We're playin' fuckin' poker with funny money, and its liar's poker with funny money because of all this cost-plus stuff.

"So, you know, I'm not, I don't want to get into a moral or ethical conversation, because I believe that if a guy's gonna butt-fuck you then we got to go to butt-fuckin' him harder … "

About all I can logically add is this. If anyone thinks that senior VPs know something likethis and the CEEO / President doesn't, esp one with an alleged "hands-on" management style, your kidding yourself.

jb wrote:About all I can logically add is this. If anyone thinks that senior VPs know something likethis and the CEEO / President doesn't, esp one with an alleged "hands-on" management style, your kidding yourself.

I believe / speculate this will tie back to Trey inexorably.

Amen. Pulling the plug on a few mid level humps and keeping them quiet with a lot of money ain't making this go away.

I think it's worth noting that the FBI likely had Haslem's phone tapped over the last year.

I believe that will be the biggest concern of Roger Goodell. Particularly if any conversations regarding promises of political support from the Haslem's in Tennessee as part of the ownership sign off by the NFL.

I have not read the affidavit and have not seen any direct quotes from Haslem so either the FBI really is not that focused on him or they just didn't need his information for the execution of the search warrant. They only use the minimum amount of information necessary. If they are really targeting Haslem than it would seem to make sense to keep what they have on him out of the lime light until they're ready to press charges.

rk wrote:I have not read the affidavit and have not seen any direct quotes from Haslem so either the FBI really is not that focused on him or they just didn't need his information for the execution of the search warrant. They only use the minimum amount of information necessary. If they are really targeting Haslem than it would seem to make sense to keep what they have on him out of the lime light until they're ready to press charges.

Probably a bingo.

Remember Jimmy's initial statement about the FBI invasion. Spoke of this being about "rebates to an insignificant number of customers".

I don't think he uses such dismissive language to describe a situation that he truly knows nothing about and is just discovering.

Jimmy's the prize kill, not Mr. Buttfuck. I'd be shocked if they don't have plenty o' dirt to take him down.

rk wrote:I have not read the affidavit and have not seen any direct quotes from Haslem so either the FBI really is not that focused on him or they just didn't need his information for the execution of the search warrant. They only use the minimum amount of information necessary. If they are really targeting Haslem than it would seem to make sense to keep what they have on him out of the lime light until they're ready to press charges.

Probably a bingo.

Remember Jimmy's initial statement about the FBI invasion. Spoke of this being about "rebates to an insignificant number of customers".

I don't think he uses such dismissive language to describe a situation that he truly knows nothing about and is just discovering.

Jimmy's the prize kill, not Mr. Buttfuck. I'd be shocked if they don't have plenty o' dirt to take him down.

Mister BuFu is a full bird senior VP. In most organizations anything important those folks know is known by the pres/CEO, esp in a private family company. It is inconeivable that Try didn't know.

Now do they have the smoking gun that will hold up in court? IDK.

But remember; the standard of taint in the NFL isn't conviction. It's going to trial. See also, Eddie D.

e0y2e3 wrote:Why would any NFL - Haslam convos end up as evidence? I am sure they exist and are probably damning as hell, but no way that sees the light of day.

If the subpoena used for the placement of a listening device was broad enough to be looking for any criminal activity - not just criminal activity related to this screwing of their luddite business partners - then they would likely be intereted in what was discussed. In terms of anti-trust, political influence, spoken but not written NFL owner policies, etc. you have to imagine some of those things were touched on over the phone.

But even if there isn't anything criminal in nature I'm fairly confident that they would care that recordings like these might even exist. The internal conversations of a prospective owner and Goodel (not to mention other owners) would likely pierce the PR image that the NFL likes to maintain. Plenty of organizations like Wikileaks would have no problem releasing those if they got a hold of them even if Julian probably has no clue what the NFL is.

I think I would be more concerned if I was Bill Haslam than Roger Goodell but both are certainly wondering what they've talked to Jimmy about in the last year or two.

e0y2e3 wrote:Why would any NFL - Haslam convos end up as evidence? I am sure they exist and are probably damning as hell, but no way that sees the light of day.

If the subpoena used for the placement of a listening device was broad enough to be looking for any criminal activity - not just criminal activity related to this screwing of their luddite business partners - then they would likely be intereted in what was discussed. In terms of anti-trust, political influence, spoken but not written NFL owner policies, etc. you have to imagine some of those things were touched on over the phone.

But even if there isn't anything criminal in nature I'm fairly confident that they would care that recordings like these might even exist. The internal conversations of a prospective owner and Goodel (not to mention other owners) would likely pierce the PR image that the NFL likes to maintain. Plenty of organizations like Wikileaks would have no problem releasing those if they got a hold of them even if Julian probably has no clue what the NFL is.

I think I would be more concerned if I was Bill Haslam than Roger Goodell but both are certainly wondering what they've talked to Jimmy about in the last year or two.

I could very well be mistaken, but I believe I heard a conversation on the radio that taped media could only be used as evidence in TN if it were "consensually" recorded, which in that state is defined by one of the parties involved having knowledge that it was being taped.

A conversation between 2 unaware parties - such as Goodell and Haslam - therefore would not be admissible as evidence. In that scenario, assuming that scenario is accurate.

Hikohadon wrote:I could very well be mistaken, but I believe I heard a conversation on the radio that taped media could only be used as evidence in TN if it were "consensually" recorded, which in that state is defined by one of the parties involved having knowledge that it was being taped.

A conversation between 2 unaware parties - such as Goodell and Haslam - therefore would not be admissible as evidence. In that scenario, assuming that scenario is accurate.

Tapes without a subpoena. IE. If Linda Tripp recorded her conversation with Monica while they were both living in Tenny that wouldn't be admissable and Bill would still be smoking cigars in his study on a regular basis.

But I'm sure the feds had a subpoena which would make the easedropping laws moot. It's also a federal case and conversations between the Haslams (with Jimmy visiting C-Town and Bill in Tenny) or between Rog and Jimmy likely were across state lines.

This is all assuming he is the target but it would seem fairly silly if he wasn't.

Pro sports have managed to skirt labor law and reality forever and the Feds aren't about to tear down that curtain now because they have a few phone calls confirming what everyone in the country already knows.

1. I hope Jimmy knew about all of this.2. I hope he gets away with it.

Why?

1. Because if he didn't know about it then he's a fucking dumbass who you don't want running your show.2. Because if he can't away with it then he's a fucking dumbass who you don't want running your show.

justmebd wrote:This is "take the deal and turn state's evidence in exchange for leniency." That's why everything happened out of the blue this morning. This is not going to end well for Haslem -- or the Browns.

I hope I'm wrong.

With Swerb on this, the sooner this ends badly for Haslam, the better it will end for the Browns. And there I was when he bought the team all pissed cuz I thought we were stuck with him forever.

justmebd wrote:This is "take the deal and turn state's evidence in exchange for leniency." That's why everything happened out of the blue this morning. This is not going to end well for Haslem -- or the Browns.

I hope I'm wrong.

With Swerb on this, the sooner this ends badly for Haslam, the better it will end for the Browns. And there I was when he bought the team all pissed cuz I thought we were stuck with him forever.

Actually, not a Haslem fan at all. I'm just worried about what happens next. I was all excited about Haslem buying the team for about two days until I started reading more and getting one of "those feelings."

Then when he bolted at the beginning of the year, my Bullshit Meter went off the charts. I had no idea THIS is what was going to happen, but I just had one of those "Cleveland Fan" moments of complete dread right before John Fucking Elway ruins your day.

I think the NFL will try and stay on "Cleveland's Side," but you just never know.

peeker643 wrote:I hope two things given what we have read and can ascertain:

1. I hope Jimmy knew about all of this.2. I hope he gets away with it.

Why?

1. Because if he didn't know about it then he's a fucking dumbass who you don't want running your show.2. Because if he can't away with it then he's a fucking dumbass who you don't want running your show.

Agreed, frankly I doubt there is a owner(or owners family) in the NFL who hasn't done some crooked shit to get to where they are. He just got caught.

I think he knew about it , and like many other of his ilk, I think he is going to get away with it , and come out stronger, much like Stienbrenner did after he got busted.

I can understand if you want the guy to crash and burn, because he is another corrupt billionaire, and your fed-up with all the in-equality in our economic and legal system. But purely as a Browns fan, I'm not so sure we will be better off if he is forced to sell. If he does sell what are we going to get... another Lerner , some conglomerate ownership group that really doesn't give a fuck, or some Saudi Prince who see's the team merely as a status symbol. Haslem is no doubt crooked fuck, but I get the impression he is a crooked fuck who genuinely wants to win football games. I know its a lesser of two evils thing, but ill take the devil I already know... unless of course like Peeker said he is a dumb-ass and cant get away with it.

"I don't think they're building chemical weapons in Berea. But they might be. I can't say for sure."Chuck Klosterman

peeker643 wrote:I hope two things given what we have read and can ascertain:

1. I hope Jimmy knew about all of this.2. I hope he gets away with it.

Why?

1. Because if he didn't know about it then he's a fucking dumbass who you don't want running your show.2. Because if he can't away with it then he's a fucking dumbass who you don't want running your show.

Agreed, frankly I doubt there is a owner(or owners family) in the NFL who hasn't done some crooked shit to get to where they are. He just got caught.

I think he knew about it , and like many other of his ilk, I think he is going to get away with it , and come out stronger, much like Stienbrenner did after he got busted.

I can understand if you want the guy to crash and burn, because he is another corrupt billionaire, and your fed-up with all the in-equality in our economic and legal system. But purely as a Browns fan, I'm not so sure we will be better off if he is forced to sell. If he does sell what are we going to get... another Lerner , some conglomerate ownership group that really doesn't give a fuck, or some Saudi Prince who see's the team merely as a status symbol. Haslem is no doubt crooked fuck, but I get the impression he is a crooked fuck who genuinely wants to win football games. I know its a lesser of two evils thing, but ill take the devil I already know... unless of course like Peeker said he is a dumb-ass and cant get away with it.

Hopefully, what we'll get is an owner that doesn't make bad decisions.

Right now we have one.

Not at all saying I want a Lerner back since he made bad decisions too. But if you're gonna trade an owner in, you want it to be for an upgrade since you're stuck with the guy. Jimmy was NOT an upgrade.

Jimmy's running the show just the same way Lerner did - take (almost sight unseen) the schmoe the NFL is pushing on you and give him de facto control over the organization while you're off attending to more pressing matters.

I know people are averse to change yet again, but in the end you want to have the right guy(s) in place if you're going to get anything more than the occasional 2007 season. There's got to be a competent billionaire out there somewhere.

peeker643 wrote:I hope two things given what we have read and can ascertain:

1. I hope Jimmy knew about all of this.2. I hope he gets away with it.

Why?

1. Because if he didn't know about it then he's a fucking dumbass who you don't want running your show.2. Because if he can't away with it then he's a fucking dumbass who you don't want running your show.

Agreed, frankly I doubt there is a owner(or owners family) in the NFL who hasn't done some crooked shit to get to where they are. He just got caught.

I think he knew about it , and like many other of his ilk, I think he is going to get away with it , and come out stronger, much like Stienbrenner did after he got busted.

I can understand if you want the guy to crash and burn, because he is another corrupt billionaire, and your fed-up with all the in-equality in our economic and legal system. But purely as a Browns fan, I'm not so sure we will be better off if he is forced to sell. If he does sell what are we going to get... another Lerner , some conglomerate ownership group that really doesn't give a fuck, or some Saudi Prince who see's the team merely as a status symbol. Haslem is no doubt crooked fuck, but I get the impression he is a crooked fuck who genuinely wants to win football games. I know its a lesser of two evils thing, but ill take the devil I already know... unless of course like Peeker said he is a dumb-ass and cant get away with it.

Hopefully, what we'll get is an owner that doesn't make bad decisions.

Right now we have one.

Not at all saying I want a Lerner back since he made bad decisions too. But if you're gonna trade an owner in, you want it to be for an upgrade since you're stuck with the guy. Jimmy was NOT an upgrade.

Jimmy's running the show just the same way Lerner did - take (almost sight unseen) the schmoe the NFL is pushing on you and give him de facto control over the organization while you're off attending to more pressing matters.

I know people are averse to change yet again, but in the end you want to have the right guy(s) in place if you're going to get anything more than the occasional 2007 season. There's got to be a competent billionaire out there somewhere.

You don't even want to wait one full season to decide whether or not the guy is a upgrade? The group this guy put together, has done zero on the field yet, and you already want to say he is NOT a upgrade over Lerner... mathematically a actual blind squirrel could have been a upgrade over Lerner. Shouldn't wins and losses be used to dictate "upgrade", and not how he runs his non-football business.

and I doubt there is a line of competent billionairs in waiting to come to Cleveland, look at the goat rope St. Louis had to go through when it was on the market.

"I don't think they're building chemical weapons in Berea. But they might be. I can't say for sure."Chuck Klosterman

Govbarney wrote:You don't even want to wait one full season to decide whether or not the guy is a upgrade? The group this guy put together, has done zero on the field yet, and you already want to say he is NOT a upgrade over Lerner... mathematically a actual blind squirrel could have been a upgrade over Lerner. Shouldn't wins and losses be used to dictate "upgrade", and not how he runs his non-football business.

and I doubt there is a line of competent billionairs in waiting to come to Cleveland, look at the goat rope St. Louis had to go through when it was on the market.

I personally feel he's made nothing but poor decisions since he's come here, both with the Browns and Flying J. I have very little hope that he will get it done here. I know it's completely unfair to not give him a season blah blah blah, but I've seen enough bad players/coaches/front office types come down the road that you just knew weren't going to get it done. So "giving them the season" just wasted a season. You only "give those guys a season" if you have no other options.

If they could've fired Pat Shurmur the week after he got hired, that also wouldn't have been unfair. And it also would've saved us from 2 years of Shurmur. We waited his full 2 seasons to "decide" whether or not the guy was competent when you knew right from the beginning that it was unlikely to happen.

AT THIS TIME, I feel Haslam is the owner equivalent of a Shurmur.

That could always change, and I will happily admit I was mistaken about good ol' Jimmy.

And I don't care if they have to go through a goat rope to get a new owner as long as he's the right guy. Clearly, I don't think Jim Bob is it.

swerb wrote:It's all moot. Halsam is toast. Two employees already pled guilty and working with the Feds.

The NFL will own the Browns before summer is over and be courting new buyers.

Take it to the bank.

YES Ten times to this.

We'll have a lame duck front office and coaching staff by Week One. No one in Berea is going to give a shit what this team does because they'll already be sending out their resumes and trying to be the first one out the door before the next billionaire fires everybody and starts over.

The coaches will want to win to try and secure jobs in other places, but once the players see what's coming down the pike, they'll go into "Play not to get injured" mode and we'll be looking at another 2-14ish season.