**** health insurance. I'm thinking about not having it and saving $12k per year and just go to urgent care if I'm dead or something. I could have a really nice vacation for $12,000 that would be good for my health!

**** health insurance. I'm thinking about not having it and saving $12k per year and just go to urgent care if I'm dead or something. I could have a really nice vacation for $12,000 that would be good for my health!

ps. this topic pisses me off.

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You misunderstand. Obama fixed all of this when he forced Obamacare on us. Don't you remember? Anyway, all these increases are good for the commoners.

Yup. Single payer. How come corporations are against that since they would no longer have to offer decent coverage, save money and time on paperwork involved, and other things? SMH... aren't there more corporations in total than there are insurance companies (part of the corporate sector but not all of it by any scale)?

But this is Minnesota, land of anti-life liberalism where they welcome everyone no matter what the threat? (half sarcasm) With all the new people coming in, are costs skyrocketing because everyone is seeing mental health providers thanks to the increased cost of living, college, fewer job opportunities, and other stressors? There's a neat catch-22.

**** health insurance. I'm thinking about not having it and saving $12k per year and just go to urgent care if I'm dead or something. I could have a really nice vacation for $12,000 that would be good for my health!

ps. this topic pisses me off.

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No just don't get healthcare until you have a terminal illness, win win, they can't refuse you for pre-existing conditions.

One thing that all the best healthcare systems in the world have in common? All Universal Healthcare, so all citizens are covered, with a few of the top Universal Healthcare nations also having higher quality tier to pay additional into. Of the top 20 nations, I think 17 are full Universal Healthcare with no other tiers. The U.S. healthcare system isn’t even in the top 40.

As many as 42 percent of U.S. Medicare patients were subjected to procedures providing little if any medical benefit, costing the government program up to $8.5 billion in wasteful spending

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No, not kidding.

Ok, so what you want is government telling doctors what procedures they can do? (Probably want death panels too. ) Of course, insurance companies do this all the time and *crickets* from those who get apoplectic government coming between patient and doctor.

Let's also note that at the same time as this study insurance companies were skimming over $12 billion for doing nothing more than paying medical bills. Unlike the medical procedures done in your cite, doctors and patients got nothing of value for this $12B.

...adding, the government does a pretty good job of running Medicare effectively and efficiently. Medicare for all!

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Not even close. Keep in mind a couple of things. First when the government is involved there are smart people that will take advantage of the system and the system is too big to notice. Yes an anecdote, but true none the less. A couple of years ago my dad woke up one morning and couldn't remember any thing. Mom took him to the Dr. and he was sent to the hospital for more tests and they deduced he had had a TIA or a small stroke. So they sent him to a rehab hospital to relearn basic skills. He was released home and they told mom he only needed minimal care. Wrong. Two weeks later he was in an assisted living facility. So mom wanted to get a wheelchair for him so she could roll him to dinner for times he really wasn't up to walking.

So I went down to the local home health store and was going to buy a decent one that was around $300. Well the guy started asking my questions about who it was for etc. Well he went into his sales pitch about how MEdicare would pay to rent him one at no cost to us and approval was easy. So I am there willing to pay $300 for the wheelchair and he is trying to convince me to let Medicare rent it for him. He assured me it would be a new one just like the one I was going to buy. So I agreed to let him try to get approval and a couple of days later the same wheelchair was delivered to the house. I wondered why he would want to have Medicare pay for it since I always thought their reimbursement rates were lower, but I had other things to worry about.

Fast forward 18 months and my dad has passed and for some reason I was looking through the pages and pages of Medicare reports and came across a charge for $49 for wheelchair rental. I immediately started doing the math. So at a minimum he had it for 16 months at $49. That is a total of $784 that Medicare paid to "rent" a $300 wheelchair for my dad. That I was willing to buy in the first place. But you have these companies that exploit the rules and are making a fortune off the government. And the company didn't ever ask for it back.

Second, right now Medicare works because there are other sources of revenue for the medical providers so the low Medicare reimbursement rates are supplemented by high rates for private insurance. But would Doctors and Hospitals and other medical related fields be able to do what they do if the only reimbursements were at the Medicare rates? I don't know the answer to that question, but it does need to be answered before we jump headfirst into single-payer.

**** health insurance. I'm thinking about not having it and saving $12k per year and just go to urgent care if I'm dead or something. I could have a really nice vacation for $12,000 that would be good for my health!

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I did this for 2015. It was worth it in terms of dollars. I didn't see a doctor - not once - during the year, and the "tax" penalty was far less than the lowest of available premiums.

BUT IIRC the "tax" penalty is increasing each year so that so you won't save by going without insurance in the very near future.

Not that the upcoming tax penalty changes matter, though - the ACA was designed to fail, as has been mentioned here. It will continue this death spiral and suddenly - thanks to the ACA years - the boiling water of single payer won't feel as hot to us frogs.

So I am there willing to pay $300 for the wheelchair and he is trying to convince me to let Medicare rent it for him.

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Not sure what the argument is here. Just because you're willing (and able) to pay out of pocket for it, therefore it would be better if Medicare didn't have a benefit for this? Some seniors can't afford to gladly drop $300 on a wheelchair.

As to the monthly fee, first the Medicare actuaries may have determined that average wheelchair is needed for less than six months, thus rental is less expensive overall than purchasing them. Secondly, the fact that the private company supplier let you keep the chair makes me wonder if the monthly payments convert to a purchase after they pass $300. Are you sure they paid $49/mth for all 16 months?

Not sure what the argument is here. Just because you're willing (and able) to pay out of pocket for it, therefore it would be better if Medicare didn't have a benefit for this? Some seniors can't afford to gladly drop $300 on a wheelchair.

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My argument here is that there are companies whose sole purpose it seems is to be able to charge Medicare for as much as they legally can. In my case my mom was willing to just pay the $300 for the wheelchair. Why did the salesman try and convince me to let Medicare take care of it? I seriously doubt it was to save my mom money, but instead because he likely knew he would make more from renting it vs selling it.

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As to the monthly fee, first the Medicare actuaries may have determined that average wheelchair is needed for less than six months, thus rental is less expensive overall than purchasing them. Secondly, the fact that the private company supplier let you keep the chair makes me wonder if the monthly payments convert to a purchase after they pass $300. Are you sure they paid $49/mth for all 16 months?

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The actuaries may have determined this. I don't know.

As for being sure they paid $49 for all 16 months, I don't know, but I do know they paid it in his last month. So I doubt they would have stopped paying in the middle and started again. But the solution to this would have been for Medicare to know the original cost of the wheelchair and stop payments once they exceeded the $300 plus a carrying percentage.

Why did the salesman try and convince me to let Medicare take care of it? I seriously doubt it was to save my mom money,...

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Actually, it's a great customer service move. Most customers will appreciate the assistance in finding out whether it's covered by their insurance. IMO that would be good standard operating procedure for a medical supply story to build loyalty and positive word of mouth referrals. Again, saving $300 is real money to people on fixed incomes, particularly those dealing with significant medical issues/costs.

As for being sure they paid $49 for all 16 months, I don't know, but I do know they paid it in his last month. So I doubt they would have stopped paying in the middle and started again. But the solution to this would have been for Medicare to know the original cost of the wheelchair and stop payments once they exceeded the $300 plus a carrying percentage.

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