Le Havre's owners have a ton of money. The infrastructure? What are you implying?

Le Havre also have one of the best youth academies in France.

Mojofc

Post #122

Saturday May 14, 2016 5:49pm

Joined Jan 2013
Total Posts: 966

Just poking fun at everyone that says relegation is a death wish to all clubs so MLS style is the best option. Aka promotion means their odds for relegation next season increase. Probably a good thing they didn't get promoted.

If only we could get lower division clubs in the USA to have a good enough reason to begin academies. Currently, not much of a reason... No where for those clubs to go.

Rain, rain, go away Come again another day - USMNT, MUFC

BG6

Post #123

Saturday May 14, 2016 8:45pm

Joined May 2014
Total Posts: 81

Original post from Mojofc

If only we could get lower division clubs in the USA to have a good enough reason to begin academies. Currently, not much of a reason... No where for those clubs to go.

The overwhelming majority of DAP teams are unaffiliated with MLS.

As for lower division teams, I will only speak for the northeast so I cannot attest it is identical in the rest of the country but I suspect it is. There are a large number of PDL NPSL teams. There is a USL team and NASL team. Every single one of them has an academy system. The argument a that pro/rel is the impetus to establish one seems flawed. There are solid arguments on both sides of the coin for how it should work here in the USA, I have been around long enough to remember the dearth of options, driving more than hour to go to the city to find the bar that had close circuit feed of European matches. I am happy we have a league healthy enough to have the discussion.

It's what you get when a majority of the population views soccer simply as a means for their kids to keep active, healthy, and fit until they're old enough to choose a "traditional" American sport.

cleancutimage

Post #126

Tuesday May 24, 2016 2:17am

Joined Oct 2013
Total Posts: 1,236

Original post from stone88

It's what you get when a majority of the population views soccer simply as a means for their kids to keep active, healthy, and fit until they're old enough to choose a "traditional" American sport.

Pretty much and Pirlo is 1000% right. Then again, shame on Pirlo for not doing his research. Everyone knows this isn't an easy league because the style of play is so demanding. Pirlo cannot play the channels and just run the pockets, he has to be a two way player in this league, something he is not used to.

There are plenty of technical players in this league but what they do have is fitness and a work rate. Pirlo hasn't shown this yet and that is why he struggles regardless of his ability.

dolcem

Post #127

Tuesday May 24, 2016 1:40pm

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 1,805

Original post from cleancutimage

Pretty much and Pirlo is 1000% right. Then again, shame on Pirlo for not doing his research. Everyone knows this isn't an easy league because the style of play is so demanding. Pirlo cannot play the channels and just run the pockets, he has to be a two way player in this league, something he is not used to.

There are plenty of technical players in this league but what they do have is fitness and a work rate. Pirlo hasn't shown this yet and that is why he struggles regardless of his ability.

Yeah, but we should be able to make room for a Pirlo. He's old and slow but he's a world class footballer. Surely an MLS team could figure out a way to play to make use of someone like him? No one in the MLS can deliver a ball like he can. If he could play for Juve in a Champions League final two years ago, he can still be a very useful player. The problem is our style of play is so unevolved that no one has room for a Pirlo. It doesn't matter if you're the most technically gifted player in the world, all 10 field players have to be running around like chickens with their heads cut off. I don't know if there's even a way to have 9 players running like crazy and one staying stationary and spraying perfect passes to the rest. I don't know if it would fit, I don't know if his American teammates would understand him, and I don't know if an MLS manager would know how to use him (it's not like any of these MLS guys every played with or coached anyone of that caliber).

This is NOT to be taken as criticism of American soccer. We're doing fine. It's just that the sport is very new to us so these problems are inevitable. Clearly we're just entirely technically and tactically deficient compared to the players of the top soccer nations. That problem will not be solved until our young kids start playing the sport the way their counterparts do abroad (pickup all of the time).

GET A CLUB TEAM

Rey Regicide

Post #128

Tuesday May 24, 2016 2:22pm

Joined Sep 2013
Total Posts: 2,001

Original post from dolcem

Yeah, but we should be able to make room for a Pirlo. He's old and slow but he's a world class footballer. Surely an MLS team could figure out a way to play to make use of someone like him? No one in the MLS can deliver a ball like he can. If he could play for Juve in a Champions League final two years ago, he can still be a very useful player. The problem is our style of play is so unevolved that no one has room for a Pirlo. It doesn't matter if you're the most technically gifted player in the world, all 10 field players have to be running around like chickens with their heads cut off. I don't know if there's even a way to have 9 players running like crazy and one staying stationary and spraying perfect passes to the rest. I don't know if it would fit, I don't know if his American teammates would understand him, and I don't know if an MLS manager would know how to use him (it's not like any of these MLS guys every played with or coached anyone of that caliber).

This is NOT to be taken as criticism of American soccer. We're doing fine. It's just that the sport is very new to us so these problems are inevitable. Clearly we're just entirely technically and tactically deficient compared to the players of the top soccer nations. That problem will not be solved until our young kids start playing the sport the way their counterparts do abroad (pickup all of the time).

We base things off of what we know and what we're accustomed to

English soccer
NFL
Basketball
Hockey

in that order, affects the mindset of our think tanks.. aside from JK

You said pickup, do you think that what's important is that kids eventually play pickup inspired and molded by different cultures, and varying levels of talent?

Or pickup in general internally without any foreign commerce, will develop the necessary skills?

Conte's thoughts on why he omitted Pirlo and Giovinco from his Euro 2016 roster. He is basically saying playing MLS diminishes your technical ability. *shrug*

Rey Regicide

Post #130

Tuesday May 24, 2016 5:27pm

Joined Sep 2013
Total Posts: 2,001

Damn, how do you think Conte views Miazga then... MLS player at Chelsea or someone who was too good for the league?

dolcem

Post #131

Tuesday May 24, 2016 8:04pm

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 1,805

Original post from Rey Regicide

We base things off of what we know and what we're accustomed to

English soccer
NFL
Basketball
Hockey

in that order, affects the mindset of our think tanks.. aside from JK

You said pickup, do you think that what's important is that kids eventually play pickup inspired and molded by different cultures, and varying levels of talent?

Or pickup in general internally without any foreign commerce, will develop the necessary skills?

Very, very interesting question.

The issue is that our kids don't play the game the way their peers do in Europe. At least not on a national level (and we have a really big country, so the isolated exceptions don't get to play with each other until they're already teens). They aren't constantly on the ball, so they don't have the technique, and since it's not fanatically played and studied (watching it on TV, talking about it with your family) the way it is over there, they don't have the instincts either. You throw together a bunch of kids that all of the same problem, and it only gets worse. Everyone's best trait is their athleticism, so that only further encourages playing kickball.

So internally, a lot needs to happen. But there needs to be foreign influence as well. We need to learn from the best. If we just have an isolated system, we won't be able to compete. A soccer team is only as strong as its weakest player, and thus we'll always lag behind. So the more foreign ideas and tactics germinate here, the better. We need to send our players and coaches abroad, and we need to bring in foreign coaches. This will help close the gap.

GET A CLUB TEAM

USAGunnerWest Palm Beach

Post #132

Tuesday May 24, 2016 8:49pm

Joined Jul 2013
Total Posts: 1,322

More time on the ball is the key. There are several ways to accomplish that. You can go the pick-up route like much of latin-america. Or you can go the practice route of say an Ajax academy. Developing sound practices that are aimed at getting each kid time on the ball and learning.

It's so easy to point out when watching the USMNT. Watch those who have almost all of their training and development here in the USA and almost all of them are so deficient in with their first touch, so deficient in their spacing and tactical knowledge. They pass the ball and just sit there, they don't attack open spaces and expect a 1-2 right back to them. Watch the USMNT guys who have spent most of their time in Europe and they are doing those things. It creates a very much dysfunctional flow when they are playing together. You'll see a USA trained guy pass to the Euro trained guy, the Euro guy with the ball at his feet will see an open space and expect that USA trained guy to be there, pass it there, only the USA trained guy just sat still after passing the ball. That happens way to often with our team. It's why we look so inefficient and our play is so up and down at times. Everyone is not on the right page. And no matter how much JK practices and tries to instill it in them to move, or to develop tactical awareness, you can't do much in 1-2 weeks a few times a year.

You can even see how much better those guys can get in just a years time in those aspects (if they have the work ethic). Look at Yedlin and how much better he got in basically 1 calendar year in Europe.

To be fair it's not everyone in the USA, there are some coaches/players who rise above that and teach/learn that kind of stuff. Jordan Morris for someone who has been completely trained in the USA is pretty dang tactically aware, knowing when to make runs. But he still needs some refinement, something he won't get in the MLS. He'll improve slightly in that area, but he will hit a plateau shortly once he catches up to playing professionally. I suspect the 2nd half of season 1 and next season for him will be very good. People will talk him up even more. If he stays at Seattle, that will be as good as he gets. If he moves on to Europe and challenges himself there, you will see a huge improvement in a 1-2 years.
That's what I hope his trajectory follows.
Stay in MLS for 2 years, then move on to Europe and continue to develop. He will have squeezed all he can get out of MLS in 2 (max 3) years.

www.westpalmbeachchurchofchrist.com

Know Nothing

Post #133

Tuesday May 24, 2016 10:00pm

Joined Jan 2013
Total Posts: 1,556

Original post from Rey Regicide

Damn, how do you think Conte views Miazga then... MLS player at Chelsea or someone who was too good for the league?

Probably not well. I dare say his confidence took a bit of a hit being hauled off at half time of the Swansea match never to play another minute. If we had qualified for the Olympics it may have helped him, but no meaningful matches this summer may be detrimental to him.

I expect Chelsea to buy at least one defender and incorporate two more that were on loan last year. The one silver lining for Miazga is that he will be returning to training at the earliest moment since he is not involved in any summer tournaments. He will have a chance to make an impression, though I think the decision to send him out on loan may have already been made.

snipes87Cleveland, Ohio

Post #134

Tuesday May 24, 2016 11:44pm

Joined Jul 2013
Total Posts: 866

2tone is not a Conte fan after that comment. However I would say it was a big arrogant and naive considering the striking options he picked for his Italian squad this summer. Find it hard to believe Gio wouldn't have been a better option.

If you don't love it, leave it, USA #1

Rey Regicide

Post #135

Wednesday May 25, 2016 12:26pm

Joined Sep 2013
Total Posts: 2,001

Original post from Know Nothing

Probably not well. I dare say his confidence took a bit of a hit being hauled off at half time of the Swansea match never to play another minute. If we had qualified for the Olympics it may have helped him, but no meaningful matches this summer may be detrimental to him.

I expect Chelsea to buy at least one defender and incorporate two more that were on loan last year. The one silver lining for Miazga is that he will be returning to training at the earliest moment since he is not involved in any summer tournaments. He will have a chance to make an impression, though I think the decision to send him out on loan may have already been made.

Having a tournament to showcase himself would have drawn more potential suitors no?