Luckily, whatever deal Iran makes, Israel isn't going to honor. They aren't a signatory of the Treaty on the Non-Proliferation of Nuclear Weapons, so they get to bomb whomever they like if they feel threatened.

An Israeli pre-emptive strike against Iran's nuclear program will probably begin with a rain of Jericho missiles obliterating the heavy water plant in Arak and destroying four small nuclear research reactors at the Nuclear Technology Center in Isfahan.

Submarine-launched cruise missiles will seek out targets at a variety of research facilities across Iran.

Some Israeli aircraft will attack Iran's power lines with special-purpose munitions that use chemically treated carbon fibres to short-circuit transformers and switching stations to knock out Iran's power grid.

Black Hawk helicopters (possibly taking off from disused Soviet air bases in Azerbaijan) will deposit Israeli commandos, disguised as members of the Iranian military, outside the Parchin military complex near Tehran, and bomb-equipped dogs will penetrate deep into fortified tunnels at other sites.

A wave of cyber attacks will disrupt Iranian computer and anti-aircraft targeting systems.

Such a scenario - played out and predicted increasingly by war game strategists - looms large as the decade-long diplomatic confrontation with Iran over its suspected nuclear weapons program appears to be drawing to an end.

Talks between Iran and six world powers - the United States, Britain, France, China, Russia and Germany - scheduled to begin in Istanbul next Friday could be the last chance to avoid full-fledged conflict.

AverageAmericanGuy:Luckily, whatever deal Iran makes, Israel isn't going to honor. They aren't a signatory of the Treaty on the Non-Proliferation of Nuclear Weapons, so they get to bomb whomever they like if they feel threatened.

So good luck on the talks, Iran.

On what planet is this "lucky?" Is widespread death, destruction and neverending war just your thing?

You can't just whip up some weapons grade uranium like a margarita, it takes precision equipment and a very long time. Then you have to store it, carefully machine it into a core, insert that into your detonating devise, and put it in a delivery system. It's not very easy at all. Making a primitive nuke is easy, having usable fissionable material a delivery systems is farking hard.

Antimatter:At this point why should they? The west wants a war, and they have precious little that can deter that. Nukes seem like the only thing that could assure peace for them.

I am always amused by that.

The Iranian Republic, ever since its inception, has been the world's foremost state sponsor of terrorism, training and exporting their expertise (and often fighters) all over the Middle-East and most of the globe, a belligerent regime that has attacked others either through proxy or directly, and routinely calls for the destruction of multiple countries, has for decades, and has openly enshrined in its constitution the fact that it is meant to be at the head of a caliphate-like kingdom spanning all muslim lands and eventually the world.

An Israeli pre-emptive strike against Iran's nuclear program will probably begin with a rain of Jericho missiles obliterating the heavy water plant in Arak and destroying four small nuclear research reactors at the Nuclear Technology Center in Isfahan.

Submarine-launched cruise missiles will seek out targets at a variety of research facilities across Iran.

Some Israeli aircraft will attack Iran's power lines with special-purpose munitions that use chemically treated carbon fibres to short-circuit transformers and switching stations to knock out Iran's power grid.

Black Hawk helicopters (possibly taking off from disused Soviet air bases in Azerbaijan) will deposit Israeli commandos, disguised as members of the Iranian military, outside the Parchin military complex near Tehran, and bomb-equipped dogs will penetrate deep into fortified tunnels at other sites.

A wave of cyber attacks will disrupt Iranian computer and anti-aircraft targeting systems.

Such a scenario - played out and predicted increasingly by war game strategists - looms large as the decade-long diplomatic confrontation with Iran over its suspected nuclear weapons program appears to be drawing to an end.

Talks between Iran and six world powers - the United States, Britain, France, China, Russia and Germany - scheduled to begin in Istanbul next Friday could be the last chance to avoid full-fledged conflict.

more

If they do a first strike, then the gloves come off, and i'd launch every last single warhead I had back at them. Chemical, biological, the works. No way they would take that sitting down.

Tatsuma:Antimatter: At this point why should they? The west wants a war, and they have precious little that can deter that. Nukes seem like the only thing that could assure peace for them.

I am always amused by that.

The Iranian Republic, ever since its inception, has been the world's foremost state sponsor of terrorism, training and exporting their expertise (and often fighters) all over the Middle-East and most of the globe, a belligerent regime that has attacked others either through proxy or directly, and routinely calls for the destruction of multiple countries, has for decades, and has openly enshrined in its constitution the fact that it is meant to be at the head of a caliphate-like kingdom spanning all muslim lands and eventually the world.

Tatsuma:Antimatter: and i'd launch every last single warhead I had back at them.

Interesting back and forth.

Revelation of what you'd want them to do, rather what you think they'll do?

I'm an American, If someone did that to my nation, i'd be in favor of throwing everything we had back at them. I imagine the Iranians feel the same way. You don't allow a nation to roll in, kill thousands of people and do billions im damage, and then not strike back.

They kill yours, you kill theirs. and you try to make it so bad, they don't think about doing it again.

An Israeli pre-emptive strike against Iran's nuclear program will probably begin with a rain of Jericho missiles obliterating the heavy water plant in Arak and destroying four small nuclear research reactors at the Nuclear Technology Center in Isfahan.

Submarine-launched cruise missiles will seek out targets at a variety of research facilities across Iran.

Some Israeli aircraft will attack Iran's power lines with special-purpose munitions that use chemically treated carbon fibres to short-circuit transformers and switching stations to knock out Iran's power grid.

Black Hawk helicopters (possibly taking off from disused Soviet air bases in Azerbaijan) will deposit Israeli commandos, disguised as members of the Iranian military, outside the Parchin military complex near Tehran, and bomb-equipped dogs will penetrate deep into fortified tunnels at other sites.

A wave of cyber attacks will disrupt Iranian computer and anti-aircraft targeting systems.

Such a scenario - played out and predicted increasingly by war game strategists - looms large as the decade-long diplomatic confrontation with Iran over its suspected nuclear weapons program appears to be drawing to an end.

Talks between Iran and six world powers - the United States, Britain, France, China, Russia and Germany - scheduled to begin in Istanbul next Friday could be the last chance to avoid full-fledged conflict.

more

If they do a first strike, then the gloves come off, and i'd launch every last single warhead I had back at them. Chemical, biological, the works. No way they would take that sitting down.

Chemical and biological weapons would incur a retaliation by Irsael's nuclear arsenal.

And when they constantly sponsor of barrage of rocket into another country, call for its death then start developing nukes, it also becomes a right for the other country to defend itself, and even take pre-emptive measures.

An Israeli pre-emptive strike against Iran's nuclear program will probably begin with a rain of Jericho missiles obliterating the heavy water plant in Arak and destroying four small nuclear research reactors at the Nuclear Technology Center in Isfahan.

Submarine-launched cruise missiles will seek out targets at a variety of research facilities across Iran.

Some Israeli aircraft will attack Iran's power lines with special-purpose munitions that use chemically treated carbon fibres to short-circuit transformers and switching stations to knock out Iran's power grid.

Black Hawk helicopters (possibly taking off from disused Soviet air bases in Azerbaijan) will deposit Israeli commandos, disguised as members of the Iranian military, outside the Parchin military complex near Tehran, and bomb-equipped dogs will penetrate deep into fortified tunnels at other sites.

A wave of cyber attacks will disrupt Iranian computer and anti-aircraft targeting systems.

Such a scenario - played out and predicted increasingly by war game strategists - looms large as the decade-long diplomatic confrontation with Iran over its suspected nuclear weapons program appears to be drawing to an end.

Talks between Iran and six world powers - the United States, Britain, France, China, Russia and Germany - scheduled to begin in Istanbul next Friday could be the last chance to avoid full-fledged conflict.

more

If they do a first strike, then the gloves come off, and i'd launch every last single warhead I had back at them. Chemical, biological, the works. No way they would take that sitting down.

Chemical and biological weapons would incur a retaliation by Irsael's nuclear arsenal.

They are going to break down and do it anyways, they just need an excuse. If they are going to wipe you out, you might as well take as many of them with you as you can.

Antimatter:I'm an American, If someone did that to my nation, i'd be in favor of throwing everything we had back at them. I imagine the Iranians feel the same way. You don't allow a nation to roll in, kill thousands of people and do billions im damage, and then not strike back.

Strikes on nuclear facilities would in no way kill 'thousands of people'.

And you favor, in order to counteract this, to just fire chemical and biological weapons at civilian centers? I suppose I can understand why you associate with Iran so much, you certainly think like a good IRG stooge.

Antimatter:Time to add the warmongering farker to the ignore list I think. I'm tired of his constantt calls for murder, double standards, and questionable loyalties.

Calls for murder? From the guy who just advocated firing chemical and biological weapons at Tel Aviv?

Double standards? With the speech you just made about Iran?

Questionable loyalty? When you defend a nation that has been screaming death to America for decades, is responsible for the death of hundreds of Americans and is developing nuclear weapons?

You advocate for Iran to have nuclear weapons in order to deter 'American aggressiveness' and I am being accused of double loyalty?

Iran doesn't have the capabilities to sufficient for mutual annihilation. Irsaeli missile defense systems will assuredly intercept some Iranian warheads and even those that impact aren't going to be the kind of catastrophe a nuclear weapon would be; chemical weapons will create mass casualties. They won't destroy entire cities.

Tatsuma:Antimatter: At this point why should they? The west wants a war, and they have precious little that can deter that. Nukes seem like the only thing that could assure peace for them.

I am always amused by that.

The Iranian Republic, ever since its inception, has been the world's foremost state sponsor of terrorism, training and exporting their expertise (and often fighters) all over the Middle-East and most of the globe, a belligerent regime that has attacked others either through proxy or directly, and routinely calls for the destruction of multiple countries, has for decades, and has openly enshrined in its constitution the fact that it is meant to be at the head of a caliphate-like kingdom spanning all muslim lands and eventually the world.

Yet somehow, the West are the dickhead antagonists here.

They're the belligerent nation du jour, but they haven't been "the world's foremost state sponsor of terrorism" since, what 1978. They are just another in a long line of Libyas, Syrias, Saudi Arabias and all the other tin-pot middle east dictatorships using whacko fundamentalists to stay in power.

Ahmadinejad is surely saying some awful nasty stuff about Israel including repeated calls for her destruction. I don't know if the people in charge of Iran publicly spew the same hateful shiat but the general population doesn't seem to share their same vitriol.

Bombing Iran to hell is only going to build more support for the crazy supreme leader. Randomly killing scientists is only going to build on nationalism and may well likely turn the student-age population against Israel and the west. I'd like to see more support for the grassroots resistance and focus on aiding the likes of those in the streets for the last election rather than just watching them get gunned down by their government.

I hope that if Israel acts and engages in a first strike, the US government tells them they're on their own. I don't think Israel will attack, though, since Israel has, with the exception of Lebanon, maintained a fairly rational and pragmatic approach to dealing with their neighbor-states.

Iran is offering to make compromises even before the talks begin. They're signalling a willingness to work with the West on this issue. Israel will not accept that, because they've been pushing for this war for years. Republicans will go along with whatever Israel says, and Obama will oppose war right up until the day after the election.

Meanwhile, war with Iran will mean skyrocketing energy prices, which will cripple the global economy and possibly lead to the collapse of the embattled EU, not to mention a reversal of the American recovery. It will also mean another drawn-out occupation, thousands more dead American soldiers, and tens of thousands of dead Iranians.

All this because Israel has ordered America to go to war on its behalf. Enough is enough. Our guys have already spent a decade in the desert getting their asses shot off. They've done their duty, far beyond what was initially asked of them, and now it's time for them to come home. If Israel wants a war, let them fight it themselves.

dr_blasto:They're the belligerent nation du jour, but they haven't been "the world's foremost state sponsor of terrorism" since, what 1978. They are just another in a long line of Libyas, Syrias, Saudi Arabias and all the other tin-pot middle east dictatorships using whacko fundamentalists to stay in power.

Uh, no, they have been at the forefront of that business since their creation. It started with three main targets: Iraq, Israel, and International troops in Lebanon. Then it expended after that.

They were not just 'one in a long line', they have been on top of the line for nearly three decades now.

dr_blasto:I don't know if the people in charge of Iran publicly spew the same hateful shiat

They do, quite often. Khameini ym'sh just said something along those lines two weeks ago or so again.

dr_blasto:but the general population doesn't seem to share their same vitriol.

Most of them don't (in Tehran and more modernized cities, anyway) but they are not the ones in control of Iran, the fanatics are.

dr_blasto:Bombing Iran to hell is only going to build more support for the crazy supreme leader. R

At this point, its being seen as a situation of 'better being hated but alive than risk nuclear assimilation'

dr_blasto:I hope that if Israel acts and engages in a first strike, the US government tells them they're on their own. I don't think Israel will attack, though, since Israel has, with the exception of Lebanon, maintained a fairly rational and pragmatic approach to dealing with their neighbor-states.

The mood on the ground here is that it is inevitable, and will happen soon. Not something we're happy about, either.

/Got two shelters within 3 minutes of walking (and about 40 seconds of OMGOMGOMGOMG running)//seriously hope I won't have to use them.

That number seems low, were the glorious, beloved by all, vanguard of Islam, Supreme Leader go full derp and use (potentially in conjuction with Syria) chemical or even biological weapons in whatever counter attack they attempt.

Basij:Iran doesn't have the capabilities to sufficient for mutual annihilation. Irsaeli missile defense systems will assuredly intercept some Iranian warheads and even those that impact aren't going to be the kind of catastrophe a nuclear weapon would be; chemical weapons will create mass casualties. They won't destroy entire cities.

that's not the only effect though. If even one gets through, it adds a series human loss to the enemy, and that hurts them. It's easy to support a war when you think none of your people will die.

But once you see bodies of your friends, family, etc, it causes you to view it in a different light. It's hard to forgive your nation for starting a fight that cost you so much, just look at the vile families who lost loved ones in saw, vietnam pointed at their government.

That's before you get into the massive cost of decontamination, as well as the fallout from being the first striker, as well as the first country to use nukes in an armed conflict since WWII. The political fallout would be extreme, no matter the spin from the west.

The best path is honestly, to just end the sabre rattling, and leave them alone. The youth will eventually topple the old guard anyways, given time.

imontheinternet:Iran is offering to make compromises even before the talks begin.

No, they are not,

they already rejected the demands of the P5 + 1, and declared that

Fereydoon Abbasi Davani, the head of Iran's Atomic Energy Organization called the western diplomats' demands "irrational," according to AFP.

AFP quoted Davani as saying in an interview with the Iranian ISNA news agency that the Fordow facility had to be built underground because of the West's threats to attack the Islamic Republic's nuclear facilities.

"If they do not threaten us and guarantee that no aggression will occur, then there would be no need for countries to build facilities underground. They should change their behavior and language," he said.

Davani added that Iran would continue to produce uranium enriched to 20 percent, but not "more than we need, because it is not in our benefit to produce it and keep it." Iran says it needs 20% enriched uranium to produce medical isotopes in its Tehran research reactor, while the West claims that 20% enriched uranium is a stepping stone to creating nuclear weapons.

/Got two shelters within 3 minutes of walking (and about 40 seconds of OMGOMGOMGOMG running)//seriously hope I won't have to use them.

That number seems low, were the glorious, beloved by all, vanguard of Islam, Supreme Leader go full derp and use (potentially in conjuction with Syria) chemical or even biological weapons in whatever counter attack they attempt.

It's a propaganda number. They will never admit the true costs of such a war, as that could turn the population against their government. It's similar to when the US population discovered the costs of a nuclear war, and as a result, a lot of support for such policies died a rapid death.

Tatsuma:dr_blasto: They're the belligerent nation du jour, but they haven't been "the world's foremost state sponsor of terrorism" since, what 1978. They are just another in a long line of Libyas, Syrias, Saudi Arabias and all the other tin-pot middle east dictatorships using whacko fundamentalists to stay in power.

Uh, no, they have been at the forefront of that business since their creation. It started with three main targets: Iraq, Israel, and International troops in Lebanon. Then it expended after that.

They were not just 'one in a long line', they have been on top of the line for nearly three decades now.

Depends on your regional perspective. I'd say that in pure body count, Pakistan has been the top sponsor of international terrorism for a good while now. Extending mostly to Afghanistan and India, but still.

Tatsuma:imontheinternet: Iran is offering to make compromises even before the talks begin.

No, they are not,

they already rejected the demands of the P5 + 1, and declared that

Fereydoon Abbasi Davani, the head of Iran's Atomic Energy Organization called the western diplomats' demands "irrational," according to AFP.

AFP quoted Davani as saying in an interview with the Iranian ISNA news agency that the Fordow facility had to be built underground because of the West's threats to attack the Islamic Republic's nuclear facilities.

"If they do not threaten us and guarantee that no aggression will occur, then there would be no need for countries to build facilities underground. They should change their behavior and language," he said.

Davani added that Iran would continue to produce uranium enriched to 20 percent, but not "more than we need, because it is not in our benefit to produce it and keep it." Iran says it needs 20% enriched uranium to produce medical isotopes in its Tehran research reactor, while the West claims that 20% enriched uranium is a stepping stone to creating nuclear weapons.

Do you understand how negotiations work? You don't publicly announce how low you're willing to go ahead of talks. In fact, you take as hard a line as you can, in order to strengthen your position going in. The fact that Iran is already announcing that it will scale back its program is significant. It's sending a signal that it's willing to compromise.

Also, you completely avoided the main point of the post. Going to war with Iran will be a complete disaster for not just America, but the entire world. Why should America attack Iran at Israel's command?