For the People with a Qtron+ there is an effects loop built into the pedal so you can run your distorton through and it is MORE than perfect. just like clean EF but with distortion. I run mine outside the loop and have success too, but you can run the octave, whatever and get clean mixtures of the EF and other effect. Its brilliant, no sensitivity problems. I noticed some people like the original Qtron rather than the plus, man better improvements in the Q+ imo with that upgrade alone. I liked the mutron III when I tried it, but like them all they need to be adjusted properly,and don't remember it being that much different than a Qtron. I agree with putting the Qtron+ especially against all others, and there are a few great EF's out there. If my Qtron+ breaks, I will buy another. I'm tellin' ya the built in EFX loop is the solution for ultimate compatibility if you use it for other things than Garcia.

I tried the Boss AW-3 an it had some interesting settings, but not very usable live and not very consistent. They should have stuck with the Twah for a usable design. I have to say I returned mine that ASAP. You CAN get an OK classic EF tone if you work it, but I prefer a true bypass if I can help it. cool thread for a person shopping for a Envelope Filter.

If you ever get the chance to try a Proton by 3Leaf Audio, DO IT! A no-fuss, set-it-and-forget-it type of pedal, I love mine and it has that very lush Mutron sweep, in a small reliable housing. It is $200 and well worth it. No volume boost, and the new model has a variable decay knob and relay true bypass switching.http://www.3leafaudio.com/products/proton-envelope-filter/

Seth Fleishman's new Estimated lesson includes a 15 min. vid about envelope filters. Not real in-depth, he admits he's not into the techy part of them, but he demonstrates a micro Q, Haz Mutron, and a Proton. All using the same guitar, no OBEL, and a small practice amp. Proton sounded closest to me.

"Do not write so that you can be understood, write so that you cannot be misunderstood." -Epictetus

TI4-1009 wrote:Seth Fleishman's new Estimated lesson includes a 15 min. vid about envelope filters. Not real in-depth, he admits he's not into the techy part of them, but he demonstrates a micro Q, Haz Mutron, and a Proton. All using the same guitar, no OBEL, and a small practice amp. Proton sounded closest to me.

gotta link? I have the prior Proton... and not happy, can't seem to get it dialed in. Been using the vintage MXR EF which is super simple.

I had one of the first Protons. It was good, but I wasn't satisfied. I sold an original Qtron to buy the Proton. After a few months, I sold the Proton and bought another early Qtron. Now I'm satisfied again, LOL.

I have gone through a solid decade of frustration with envelope pedals. After trying at least half a dozen different envelopes, I now have a MoogerFooger and it sounds pretty good IF I can find the sweet spot (which seems to change from day to day). It seems that most of these pedals seem to have only ONE sweet spot, and a thousand other settings that you would never use. The pedal also feels like a cheap piece of crap to me (it's giant, and weighs about half a pound). So far it continues to work, but I am just waiting for the day when it craps out on me at a gig, sometime between soundcheck and Estimated Prophet.

I used to have an older-model QTron+ (the big one that came in the wooden box) that sounded great, but it was also a cheap piece of crap and couldn't make it through more than about 3 gigs without dying on me. After getting it repaired (again) and it crapping out at a gig (again), I threw the damned thing in the garbage.

On a different, but related, subject: I'm wondering if anyone has any suggestions about where to put the envelope within your fx chain? That's the next thing I need to start experimenting with...

Mike Beigal has started making a Mutron again; he is the guy who developed the 1st one. It is pretty pricey and he is backed up with orders I think, but if it does what his original did while having some improvements in noise/bypass/impedance it is well worth the money. I have an original MIII and it is not true bypass either...and the gain affects the bypassed signal as well--just like folks are complaining about the MoogerFooger. My solution is an fxloop switch.

I have an AF-9 Maxon as well which I love for certain things (though I rarely bust it out). Bobby used an AF-9. It can be tough to drive on lead parts, but its backwards Dancin In the Streets tone is really good, and it captures the Bobby rythym things perfectly obviously.I had a DiscumBOBulator but I sold it. It was nice, perhaps too smooth sounding for me, hi-fi, and I couldnt justify keeping a $200. pedal around I didnt use much. I liked the reverse setting on it best too. The reverse on my MIII seems off, probably needs new caps or something.I have a big QTron and the smaller QTron+ that I use for gigs/travel. It doesnt have the sustain of the MIII but it works and is reliable. I would love to try the Mooger, I lovce my 6/12 stage phaser from them, especially in stereo.