Edgar Martinez

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The writers are told that "integrity, sportsmanship, character" are factors they must consider. Not easy to define in all players, but you do the best you can. Does this mean it's their job to punish cheaters? Absolutely.

It makes a lot of sense to me.
While you think the process is some sort of selective vendetta, I think it’s strategic and utilizing 80/20 rule.
Without having unlimited personnel and resources, the MLB and cycling are trying to clean up their sports by taking down the top guys, the ring leaders, hoping for increased public awareness and a domino effect. I know it’s cliché but the best way to neutralize a snake is to cut off its head. We all know how difficult and expensive it is to go after a guy like Bonds or Armstrong.
A step in a right direction, don’t you think? The first step is always the hardest and I applaud them for it.

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they took them down after they made lots of money off the players. if they gave back the money the big 3 gave them then i would respect this move.

Like volleygirl, I'm also of the female persuasion. She obviously has both a love and history of the game, as do I. I was a 20-year season ticket holder at a very prominent AAA ballclub, have seen many "stars" both before and "after" their careers...and damn-near followed The Game since Johnny Bench and The Big Red Machine strutted their stuff.

The BBWAA rarely votes anyone in on their first go-round. Less than 50 men....EVER....out of the 1000s of men who've ever played professionally, were tapped in at first chance and they, quite literally, are the Who's Who of Baseball. Anyone who has ever followed The Game knows their names.

This year's crop, with perhaps the exception of Clemens (IMHO) were....ehhh. Bonds was a good but nothing spectacular, almost airhead, outfielder...first with the Pirates then shuffled out to SF. The 'roids clearly made a difference in his at-plate performances. Otherwise, he'd be in the same category as guys like Piazza or Biggio. Solid, even stellar...but not necessarily HOF-worthy.

Don't get me wrong. In my heart, I know there are "cheats" in the HOF. But somehow, I can't quite equate spitballs and sharpened spikes to injecting drugs and betting on any game's outcome.

Oh and what sort of cheating are you assuming Ty Cobb did? Just curious.

You know what? I think there are some unfortunate racial underpinnings in play here. Yessir, I think some "baseball people" and writers and even people here are blackballing Bonds from the HOF because of his color.

Dale Murphy probably as well. He gets overlooked but that guys was as good as tons of other outfielders in the hall.

The roids thing is hard for me. You dont know how many guys used them you just sort of assume who did and if you listen to some aco****s more than 80% of the game was at one point.

Bonds was the greatest hitter I have ever seen in my life. The plate discipline and his ability to take a strike becuase it wasnt a good pitch to hit. I know the roids help with bat speed letting you wait longer to read spin. But of all the juicers in the time he was hands down the greatest.

Next years ballot will be intersting. Biggio probably gets the vote to make it, I only hope they put Bagwell in at the same time. As well as Frank Thomas. Greg Maddox has to be a shoe in i think. Glavine is close as well. Mussine probably gets in on like his 5th ballot hes not a first timer.

Ah..."mentioned" is the operative word here. Without going down the whole Greg Anderson/BALCO trail...I think (m)any of Bonds' achievements post-1999 have to be called into question. Bonds was indeed a 40/40 and, collectively, a 400/400 guy prior to then...certainly by most folks' standard on this way to the HOF but the ridiculous numbers posted afterwards, unfortunately, cloud his prior body of work. The Gold Gloves (which are subjectively awarded) ceased and the all-star and MVP accolades heaped on afterwards mostly because of the HR counts.

Sorry, guys, I still just don't see it. With the Pirates, he was sandwiched in the outfield (and lineup) with Bonilla and Van Slyke and once shuffled out to SF...I truly lost track. Don't get me wrong; there were years (e.g. 1993) he was truly star material...and the "complete" CV (drugged or not), probably worthy of HOF election. But just like Pete, he needs to be benched from that ultimate honor. Cheating with the equipment a la Cobb or Brett or Perry...you throw the equipment out (maybe even said offender) for that game and move on. How do you throw out the player who injects/alters themselves (AND lies about it)? You keep 'em out of The Hall. Period.

Dale Murphy probably as well. He gets overlooked but that guys was as good as tons of other outfielders in the hall.

The roids thing is hard for me. You dont know how many guys used them you just sort of assume who did and if you listen to some aco****s more than 80% of the game was at one point.

Bonds was the greatest hitter I have ever seen in my life. The plate discipline and his ability to take a strike becuase it wasnt a good pitch to hit. I know the roids help with bat speed letting you wait longer to read spin. But of all the juicers in the time he was hands down the greatest.

Next years ballot will be intersting. Biggio probably gets the vote to make it, I only hope they put Bagwell in at the same time. As well as Frank Thomas. Greg Maddox has to be a shoe in i think. Glavine is close as well. Mussine probably gets in on like his 5th ballot hes not a first timer.

Its not a sham since Biggio didnt make it. He wasnt an all time great, he was very good and hung around a long time to where he accumulated stats but he was never a guy you watched and said "this guy is an all time great.".

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Agree. There is nothing about Biggio that passes the eyeball test for an all time great. Good player with a long, consistent career but he really suffers in comparison to what the gestalt of what a HOF is

Rose began openly having a relationship with Kiana Kim, a Playboy model, while separated from his second wife, to whom he was married for 20 years. During a 2009 interview, Rose discussed his relationship with Kim while omitting her name, stating, "My girl has finally decided to try to shoot for Playboy, and they were kind enough to give her an opportunity to come to Houston for an interview, and we’re excited about that." A reality show called Pete Rose: Hits & Mrs. following the life of Rose and Kim will premier on TLC on January 14, 2013.

Bonds was the greatest hitter I have ever seen in my life. The plate discipline and his ability to take a strike becuase it wasnt a good pitch to hit. I know the roids help with bat speed letting you wait longer to read spin.

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In his best years, the guy might see 1 pitch that he could actually hit per plate appearance and he'd hammer it. I've never seen anything like it. The guy was unbelievable.

Everyone should watch some footage of Bonds to refresh their memory on just how good this guy really was.

Bonds even as a 'trim' player (minus any 'roid' speculating) was already HOF bound. For that matter I thought McGuire had an outside shot at the Hall. Had 49 HRs in his rookie year in Oakland (tough ballpark) and imho if he could've just stayed healthy would've broken the 500 HR club with room to spare. Sosa? No way. A good, not great ballplayer with the White Sox, period. Once in Cubby-land? All bets were off...the number spikes in that bandbox are too weird. His sprinting 'schtick' was pretty scripted too...loveable Sammy. Pleezzeee.

I mean, when Brady Anderson, a leadoff hitter suddenly jacks 51 homers, the 'wth?!' skepticism kicks in. Palmairo is another one. Was a very good 15-22 HR contact hitter (played with Will Clark at MS St. in college), but look at how his HRs suddenly went to another (slugger) level.

Post strike...get the fanny's back in the seats....direct umps to shrink the strike zone....get the non-purist/no-zilch baseball fan who views 10-8 games as "well played" .... in short, cheapen the home run. The 500 Club used to mean automatic. Now? Some posseurs in there.

Again, Bonds would've been HOF anyway.

But for the sake of argument, who's better? Sammy Sosa (608 HRs), whose HR total went up by 30(!) in one year or Frank Robinson (586).

Sammy Sosa couldn't carry Frank Robinson's jock.
Sammy Sosa or Mickey Mantle? LMAO!...maybe now some can understand at least some of the resentment directed at some of the HOF "all-in" sentiment? .... and the blowback from it?

Oh and what sort of cheating are you assuming Ty Cobb did? Just curious.

You know what? I think there are some unfortunate racial underpinnings in play here. Yessir, I think some "baseball people" and writers and even people here are blackballing Bonds from the HOF because of his color.

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mcgwire broke maris' record-they celebrated and called him paul bunyan.
schmidt used greenies and other drugs.
ty cobb was a racist.
the last two are hall of famers, it kind of spits in the face of mlb/s integrity clause( the reason they won't vote in bonds).

Ah..."mentioned" is the operative word here. Without going down the whole Greg Anderson/BALCO trail...I think (m)any of Bonds' achievements post-1999 have to be called into question. Bonds was indeed a 40/40 and, collectively, a 400/400 guy prior to then...certainly by most folks' standard on this way to the HOF but the ridiculous numbers posted afterwards, unfortunately, cloud his prior body of work. The Gold Gloves (which are subjectively awarded) ceased and the all-star and MVP accolades heaped on afterwards mostly because of the HR counts.

Sorry, guys, I still just don't see it. With the Pirates, he was sandwiched in the outfield (and lineup) with Bonilla and Van Slyke and once shuffled out to SF...I truly lost track. Don't get me wrong; there were years (e.g. 1993) he was truly star material...and the "complete" CV (drugged or not), probably worthy of HOF election. But just like Pete, he needs to be benched from that ultimate honor. Cheating with the equipment a la Cobb or Brett or Perry...you throw the equipment out (maybe even said offender) for that game and move on. How do you throw out the player who injects/alters themselves (AND lies about it)? You keep 'em out of The Hall. Period.

Integrity matters.

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but the whole steroid issue is nothing but mentions and suggestions so i could easily say that maybe he never took out of the accidental time.

mcgwire broke maris' record-they celebrated and called him paul bunyan.
schmidt used greenies and other drugs.
ty cobb was a racist.
the last two are hall of famers, it kind of spits in the face of mlb/s integrity clause( the reason they won't vote in bonds).

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Comparing greenies to the PEDs Clemens, Bonds, McGuire and these other guys used in this era is a joke. Greenies helped get the guys back on the field so a guy capable of hitting 35 HRs could stay on the field and hit those 35 HRs. The PEDs Bonds took turned a guy averaging about 35 HRs a year to where he hit 73 in one season. You dont see a difference? Hell if Schmidt had been using the stuff Bonds and McGuire took, he probably would have hit over 1,000 HRs and theres no telling what Hank Aaron would have ended up with so your whining that these guys are the best ever wouldnt even be in your thoughts.