Kevin Hayes is actually good

One of the more polarizing players on the Rangers is Kevin Hayes. Hayes is viewed as an inconsistent center who “is not good defensively” and “lazy” by some. Others see Hayes as a talented middle-six center who plays a balanced game. The reality is the latter, not the former.

After an impressive rookie campaign, Hayes had what was perceived as a down year in 2015-2016. He followed that up with a strong third year in New York, recording career highs in assists (32) and points (49) while tying his career high in goals (17). The team rewarded his season and improvement with the 2C role following the Derek Stepan trade.

Season

14-15

15-16

16-17

17-18

P/60

2.33

1.88

1.6

1.7

P1/60

2.27

1.36

1.29

1.22

xGF%

51.36

50.22

44.5

52.79

CF%

51.12

48.88

43.14

48.65

OZ%

60.41

60.92

41.41

47.52

TOI QOC%

28.56

28.4

29.04

29.59

Hayes has seen his deployment change radically over the past few years. It was 2016-2017 where Hayes, despite his offensive counting stats, struggled the most. That is when Hayes stopped getting sheltered starts and did almost a complete 180 in deployment, from mostly OZ starts against weak competition to DZ starts against top competition. His CF%/xGF% numbers were easily the worst of his career. But it was a learning experience.

This season is the biggest step in Hayes’ career. Hayes was thrust into a 2C role, hopefully with major lessons learned from his time as the defensive zone specialist last season. He has improved significantly in his play without the puck. He’s not perfect, but his offensive instincts and his now efficient defensive play show he can continue to improve.

It’s understandable that people think he is lazy. He’s not exactly the most loquacious quote, and sounds like he’s been to Washington state or Oregon or Colorado a few too many times. His tall frame makes it look like he’s lazy and skating slowly, when it’s just longer strides. Faster feet doesn’t mean better skater.

Hayes has some great offensive instincts, and seems to have rounded out his game into a solid two-way player. He’s someone the Rangers can rely on as a 2C, or can be one of the best 3C’s in the game depending on the roster makeup. Kevin Hayes is actually pretty good.

"Kevin Hayes is actually good", 5 out of 5 based on 22 ratings.

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I agree with most of this, he needs to be off the PK (or atleast demoted to 3rd PK pair) and put on PP2 though. He’s not very good at all at PKing and he’s surely better on the PP then having 2 D on PP2 or Desharnais.

Not very good huh? He lead the league in shorthanded points most of the season last year and tied with in 1st with somebody. He set a record in that department as a NYR and beat out legends like Mess and Leetch in his 1st full season as a PK’er. Luckily the club saw this beforehand and Hayes will be a main part f that for years to come.

I think it’s more about who he plays with, I rather see JT unite with him and a reliable 3c or 4c who can take on a shutdown role. That would open up certain shifts to have him face lesser competition. It made a huge difference for someone like Stepan for last year when the team was healthy down the middle then every other shift would be a favourable match up so that’s why Vesey could hang around in the top 6 last year. I secretly hope JG makes a huge trade for a younger top 6 winger that would benefit Hayes in the long term.

Kevin has offensive skills, and I love the way he protects the puck with his body. As pointed out in the thread, the man is tall, looks slow because of his long strides while skating, and that is deceiving to say the least. His deployment is a defensive one, but put in an offensive role, he can score, as demonstrated when he was at BC. Richter above, said it best, “Give Kevin an offensive role and the pts will come.”

How does he look slow? I think these opinions are far fetched due to people not growing up with skates and a ice rink as second nature. He’s a big guy and looks the furthest thing from a slow skating 6’5 with a little more than 210 pounds to him. He’s athletic, he has afterburners which allow him to beat guys even at the end of his shift and he has that elusive speed with the puck. It’s almost like he gets faster when he has possession which was one of the traits that always reminded me of Nash.

He looked slow because in his 1st couple of years his 1st 3 steps flat out sucked.

Last year they got stronger, optimized his skating away from the puck and picked up an in-line crossover to help his acceleration. It shouldn’t be an issue for anybody this year unless your old biases preclude it.

Saying he has elusive speed with the puck is a bit of a stretch; his size and reach makes it nigh impossible for backcheckers to get the puck off him, not the skating.

Complacent, physically timid for his size, devoted to overpassing—yet I still like Hayes as a player. He’s improved tremendously in the faceoff circle, but I wish he would become more assertive with his shot, he can shoot the puck pretty well. And he’s got serious skills with the puck, he handles as well as any big man in the game today. For the life of me I cannot understand how Vigneault looks at Hayes’ offensive skill package and says to himself “yeah, that’s my shutdown center right there.”

I agree that Hayes is good right now. But Hayes is trending down. It’s most likely what Hayes is right now is what he is. A 3rd line center. He’s been trending down in P1/60 for all 3 years while his TOI QoC is relatively stable.

I disagree fully with this zone start stuff. The majority of any players shifts start either on the fly or in the neutral zone. Zone starts don’t matter. Just an example and anyone can feel free to increase the scale as much as they like. Against Edmonton Hayes had 25 total shifts. 21 5×5, 1 5×4 and 3 4×5. He started 9 shifts in the DZ total, only 36% of all shifts. Only 6 5×5 shifts started in the DZ or 28% of his 5×5 shifts. Zone starts are not the reason for his declining production.

Again, just random stuff. Conner McDavid is infinitely better than anyone on Florida. Hayes did well there. Hayes got shelled against Florida.

As I posted below from Tulsky: “Everyone faces opponents with both good and bad shot differential, and the differences in time spent against various strength opponents by these metrics are minimal.”

Hayes is a good player, not saying otherwise. All I’m saying is that what Hayes is right now, is what he is. There is no more “potential”, no more “growing”. This is who Kevin Hayes is for next year or so, and will begin to decline after that.

Actually I said that Hayes right now is a good player, and is a good 3C. This is what he is. He will produce like this for another year, maybe 3 tops then start to decline. If anything Hayes has been trending down already and he might have already peaked.

You said he was a winner, but Hayes has not assisted and in fact hindered the Rangers in the playoffs the past few years. Is it possible he goes on an insane playoff run? Of course. Anything is possible. Is it likely? eh

all good points. I also like that fact he has improved on face offs from the mid 30% range in his first 2 season to just under 50% so far this year. A sign of a center working hard to make himself a better player. He has played well in his new role. The points have not come yet, but not from lack of effort.

I love it that people call him Kevin. You must be friends with Kevin.
Mr. Hays is a great player better than Fasth but I do not hear complaints about Fasth. Its as though Fasth gets to play against all the top lines and has some points.

You just cant handle the fact that the players greatly value Fast, and it totally blows holes in your points, which as usual are a) factually inaccurate (the award is for someone not talented—lie!) and b) not reflective of any reality in the real world. The players would VEHEMENTLY disagree with you. So therefore, you are wrong. Again!

People have the balls to put down good talent like Hays and prop up little talent like Fasth. Something is screwed up here. I don’t care what kind of bullshit award he gets to feel good and really is no award.

You have to wait and see how the elephant does in the playoffs!
Why compare a HOF goalie to a 4th liner?
Don’t you see how screwed up that is?
The HOF goalie has a history of losing. I just am ready for another debacle because of the second elephant in the room. The other HOF.

I love reading your incoherent babble. It somehow gives me a feeling of calm to know that you will respond with the most non-sensical reply possible. Truly, I thank you for that. It always brightens my day.

This one though was tough to really fathom. How am I comparing Lundqvist with Fast? It does seem that either, you are just making things up, which is your usual MO, or you are having some trouble with reading comprehension today.

So, since I care deeply about making sure you don’t go completely off the rails here, let me try to explain this to you in a manor you are more likely to understand—a third grade Scholastic Aptitude Test approach.

“Two people were talking about Rangers hockey. One of them, visiting from the Bizarro World, and who seems obsessed with proving that Jesper Fast is really not a good player even though the topic here is about Kevin Hayes, decided to say the following—

“‘People have the balls to put down good talent like Hays (actually Hayes) and prop up little talent like Fasth.’

“The person he was discussing this with was incredulous. How can the Man From Bizarro World say that when he regularly trashes Henrik Lundqvist, who obviously has been the best Ranger by far over the past twelve seasons? So that person, we will call him “Eduardo”, simply responds—

“‘You mean just like you do with Lundqvist (one of your elephants in the room) who will be going to the HOF? You mean that kind of put down’

“Now, pick up your pencils boys and girls and choose the BEST ANSWER between one of the following—

“A) Eduardo was drawing a comparison between how the Man From Bizarro World chacterizes Hayes compared to Lundqvist

“B) Eduardo is saying that Hank has the same value as a 4th line player like Fast

“C) Eduardo was drawing a comparison between how the Man From Bizarro World chacterizes Hayes compared to Lundqvist….AND we can safely conclude that the Man From Bizarro World is off his Rock-er.

“Obviously, 90% of 3rd graders would realize the comparison was to Hayes, not to Fast. So C is the most correct answer here.”

E3 you give me motivation every day. I don’t hate Fasth. I think he is a good 4th liner.
As a matter of fact I use to think he was a 3rd liner, but as time went on I noticed that he made players on his line less offensive. So putting him next to Kreider and wondering why Kreider is not scoring and when you take him off he starts scoring. Same with Hays.

If you think about it, it’s like winning the mascot award. I would be embarrassed with that award.
Everybody likes the mascot!
Most goals most points hardest hits but mascot award. Then someone could use it as something of value when it’s not.
Ya, I’m so happy to have the mascot on my line even if I don’t get a point.

I think I understand why you’re a little confused. We have Jesper FAST. Viktor Fasth is a goalie in the Swedish Hockey League. Viktor also played goalie for the Oilers for a few seasons. Jesper Fast has won the Player’s Award the last two seasons, is a solid bottom 6 winger, has played well in the playoffs and may be one of the underlying reasons why we have been playing a bit better of late. I hope this helps.

Jesper Fast (formerly Fasth; born December 2, 1991).
We can not all be Mark Messier. We all have a role to play and Fasth is a 4th line player who people love and has little offensive production. The shadow of the man is larger than his size.
Now someone is saying he sparked the team from behind.
Glass played inspired last year and that did not help the team play better.
Why do people use the players’ award as though it means something?
Should we give you an award for repeating the silly players’ award mantra for doing nothing?

The Players’ Player Award has been given annually since the conclusion of the 1958-59 season and recognizes the Ranger who, as selected by his teammates, “best exemplifies what it means to be a team player.”
WHAT THE HELL DOES THAT MEAN?
You don’t have to be good or bad or indifferent just a team player.
Time to stop the Team Player Award.
McD as MVP?
AV coach of the year?
Resident Genius blogger of the year!

Why are you so obsessed with tearing down Jesper Fast and the award? I thought you love most of these players and think they are great. So are you now saying they have great skill, but they are all stupid for giving Fast this award each year?

As I said the other day, care to guess one of the primary reasons why the PK is back on track? Yep, you guessed it, the return of Fast. Care to guess why the Rangers have gotten hot? Well, I would bet to a man, many would credit the return of Fast as probably a top 3-5 reason for the turnaround.

So I say again, go pick on someone else. You are totally wrong on this.

What do you think my impression is? Fast is not a goal scorer. That’s not the point.

He is a very good defenisve player, strong on the PK, does all the little things well and his teammates clearly love what he brings to the table. That’s my only impression. So why does that make him a bad player who should be denigrated?

Try the math in the playoffs.
Hank was great.
AV is good to a point. the playoffs.
The impression that he plays well on the 3rd line.
He stagnates the offensive production making him a good 4th line player. So when he gets his goal its a bonus.

We all need to remember we got Hayes for NOTHING! He’s was a great pickup at the time. I LOVE the guy and know it takes time for many NHL players to develop into NHL players. In this day and age where everything seems to be had so quickly we must remember only a very few players can come into the league and be good right away. Where would the team be if we didn’t wait for Miller, Hayes, Kreider and other young players to develop. You can’t collect a full pension from a job if you work 5 years you have work the 25 years. My point? We must be patient

There is no doubt that Hayes is “pretty good”. Heck, he’s good. Another in a long line of B-/B/B+ players we have employed here over the years. Solid enough, and right now pretty important given our lack of center depth.

The problem of course is that you generally have no shot at winning a Cup unless you have some “A” level players. I will post a link that might take some time to clear. Sean Hartnett of CBS New York.com. He absolutely nails the underlying issue with the Rangers this past decade (totally agree with this) and speculating that PERHAPS, Shattenkirk (and I would venture to say maybe, just maybe, Miller, Kreider, Zib and Buch) are on the verge of becoming A players so that Hank doesnt have to carry the overwhelming burden anymore. If so, then look out. This team can be dangerous.

Teams can make runs, such as the 2014 Rangers. I’m not saying it’s impossible. Just highly improbable.

And, uh, you don’t think PK Subban is one of the top defenseman in the league? They had two 30+ goal scorers in Arvidsson and Forsberg. Even Ryan Johansen. I suspect everyone of those players would be veiewed as superior to anything the Rangers have had the last few years.

This year? Perhaps we are seeing an emergence from some guys. Perhaps.

I don’t think Subban is any better then Shattenkirk. Both are offensive talented dmen with defensive shortcomings. Having big name players on your roster is not enough to winl Lord Stanley Cup. You got to have bench strength. The Penguins and Oilers lack that this year and it shows.

We haven’t had Shatty until this year obviously. Now we do, that certainly helps. But we need more. I think we may be seeing an emergence of some guys into possibly becoming “A-listers”. But now, is our depth good enough?

I agree that it can’t JUST be about having stars. You need quality bench strength as well. But to win it all, you generally have to have at least one guy that is truly an elite player—other than the goalie.

What would the Rangers have looked like over the past decade if we had Cheraponov and Michael Sauer playing? I think Cherry could have easily have been our “A level player (just see what Jagr thought of him after playing with him) … and Sauer , who was really coming into his own, would have provided us with a supremely solid 2nd pairing shut down d’man — and a RIGHTY shot.

Not saying it guarantees any different result, but the dynamics on this team would have drastically changed. Maybe there’s a trade or a bad signing we don’t have to make because of those two players.

Yep, that and failing to nail other picks when we were a lottery team 15 years ago. And, also blowing it by drafting McIlrath instead of Tarasenko. Imagine Tarasenko on the 2014 or 2015 playoff teams? We win the Cup, certainly in 2014 (2015 probably not with all the injuries). Imagine if we had Shatty in those years instead of now? Or an emerging Buch then instead of now? Or a more mature Miller?

It just shows how important timing is with these things in terms of everything coming together at the right moment.

Well, the only one we know for sure who attempted to ruin an A-list player was your guy Torts who did so with Gaborik. And it seems the “hate Torts” list among former players just keeps getting larger and larger. But somehow, we have, to the best of my knowledge anyway, never ONCE heard a former player take AV to task for “ruining them” or a teammate. It’s a total myth only advanced in Bizzaro Land.

I do not need gossip and I can see with my own eyes and think with my own brain and I have evaluated the situation and I concur with my self the coach sabotaged the team by placing inferior players in the lineup and also playing 7 defensemen thereby putting the team in a position to lose.
I do not only judge the players I judge the coach equally! You only judge the coaches record and not what he does.
Each of the game 7’s you blame the players even though the coach put them in a position to lose.
Putting Glass in, puts them in a position to lose but you will never admit the truth because you believe the record of the coach and he is infallible.
Bizzar is making the same mistakes 3 times and continues to do the same thing expecting a different result.
Bizzar is only examining half the equation.
You are not capable of honest judgment, you work for the news.

This team is not winning the Cup. let’s get that clear. We put ourselves out of the Rasmus Dahlin sweepstakes and again will draft between 16 and 24. Yup same shit different day.
Interesting thing is I think Hayes is a good player just too soft. With his size he should dominate but nope. I don’t mind him being on the team.
AV needs to maintain his line mates whomever they become. This shuffling AV is notorious for is not a good formula. I think that has contributed to why Hayes has been regarded as a tweener.

So I noticed Leaky is getting credit for the winning streak. How typical. I guess the Rangers are a 1 man show. So in that regard who cares what Hayes is doing, after all it has to be the Queen so Hayes can be a valuable trade asset then.