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I think Grinch is catching a lot of heat for no reason. If you read his original post he did not use the term offensive. He merely stated that in his opinion some avatars might be passing the line between provocative and tasteless. And my interpretation of the entire post, is to be careful that things don't go farther than where they are now.

I also agree that we have much more important things to worry about, but how many other threads could you say that about.

And for the record, I don't have a problem with any of the avatars. Just thought that Grinch was taking unnecessary heat.

Woods

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"Let us give pubicity to HV/AIDS and not hide it..." "One of the things destroying people with AIDS is the stigma we attach to it." Nelson Mandela

Ok,I know I'm going to get jumped all over for this but folks enough is enough with the avatars.Some people seem to be trying to out do each other with their avatars. There's quite a differences between provocative and tasteless. We're now seeing peoples pubic hair and peoples asses. Could we have some kind of guidelines, preferably informal self policed ones?This may be a board that's used to discuss a disease thats most commonly spread by sex but it's not a pickup board.

Before the typical soap opera star crew jumps in and starts screaming at me, I'm not asking for anything drastic, I'm saying ok we've started crossing the line, please take 2 steps back. In answer to the next question, no I do not want to turn off avatars because in some cases it gives me some in sight to the poster and sometimes it I just like them.

Yeah... and while we're at it, why don't we just post our 95 theses to the door of the poz magazine HQ.

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Floating through the void in the caress of two giant pink lobsters named Esmerelda and Keith.

Grinchie's obviously being prissy and totally unreasonable about this and the rest of us are giving him the slapping he so sorely needs for being a wet-blanket supreme. You're undermining our efforts and I for one won't stand for it.

Get with the programme Woods. We have a proud tradition of the herd mentality in these forums. You're not witty enough to swim against the tide, duckie.

I haven't received any complaints about mine so I'll keep it! If I do receive one reproach, though, I may try to take that little white strap of fabric away from Saint Sebastain heavenly waist/body...!

Val______

I reproach thee.

EDIT: Shoulda known Auntie Doxie would have beaten me to it. Still catching up on the thread, but the loin cloth demanded immediate attention.

OK, I guess I'll put my 2 cents in. Most of the Avatars don't bother me. Some do. Some I find on the fence of offensive. Perhaps I wouldn't feel that way as much if I didn't realize that we have children that visit this board.

Last night Lis' daughter was on. My children have read threads on here. Please don't come back and say, well then keep them off. They have a right to be here. In a family unit, it's not just the adults that have to live and deal with this virus. Just as with Lis, I don't hide this from my kids. We don't hit the minimize button in order to hide this website from them if they happen to come into the room.

We also have had at least one poster in the past (where is Jaser) that was dealing with HIV and started posting here when he was 14.

Schools do sometimes teach about HIV and hence kids sometimes google for HIV for a report and end up here.

With this CSI thing we've had a large influx of people visiting and from some of the posts it's clear many are 14 and 15 year olds.

For the adults that may have arrived via the CSI link I wonder what they think? This boards focus is supposed to be on HIV and dealing with it, but some of the Avatars...and threads....I wonder if they just serve to cement the stereotype that many people hold about people with HIV.

Somebody said something about if someone had a problem with the Avatars that they were just intolerant. I don't think this is so much an issue of tolerance as it is just one of plain old manners and decorum.

Good points there Elizabeth. Myself, I don't have a problem with any of the avatars that are being used. I will let the moderators decide through the complaints filed as to which ones they may find offensive.

If I want to view some nudity, I've got hundred's of DVD's and VHS' tapes that I can put into a machine at any time, and view all the nudity, or offfensiveness that I want to, in the privacy of my home.

If this is one of the best forums on the web for HIV... lets try to keep it that way.

Some have a taste for the sunlime, others are trapped in the rediculous. It's nice to know who's who.

You see......yet another person that can't have a discussion and present actual and coherent thoughts.Lets translate please....

"I don't like what you said therefor you're ridiculous" For the record I do have a taste for the sublime. Our definition of the word just differs.

I could care less if you want to watch underwater midget donkey porn, I'd like to have some mutually agreed upon level of respect for each others rights to not have to look at your damn pubes, or what ever the community as a whole determines is reasonable.

Instead of replying in a combative nature you could easily have made a clear and well thought out response to my post. Instead you choose snide remarks. Instead you'll wait until someone else decides what should be done and then complain about it.Have some balls and stand up for what you believe in instead of trying to rely on passive aggressive attacks and hoping someone else will step in.

I'm not asking anyone to follow my particular code of morality, I'm asking that we have a reasonable amount of community agreed upon, self restraint so that everyone including the young teens that visit can enjoy themselves without having to turn off features and place people on ignore

Somebody said something about if someone had a problem with the Avatars that they were just intolerant. I don't think this is so much an issue of tolerance as it is just one of plain old manners and decorum.

Hmmm, this comes from someone with one of the more offensive avatars I have ever seen on here. Pornographic, no, but quite insensitive on a board where most of the members are battling an incurable and, in the end, fatal disease. I find Brent's thighs less offensive than the thought of my things for sale when I'm dead.

I would not allow my children to read this board. Too much adults only language here. Even though I'm a big ole fairy if I had children they'd be raised strictly. They would be well behaved, able to differentiate all cutlery in a 6 course place setting and obviously well dressed. I swear I don't think I'd even allow them to be on the internet unsupervised until they were 15. It's just too scary out there what these kids do with webcams. I can't imagine growing up with such things. I surely would have been out of control and dead by now.

Hmmm, this comes from someone with one of the more offensive avatars I have ever seen on here. Pornographic, no, but quite insensitive on a board where most of the members are battling an incurable and, in the end, fatal disease. I find Brent's thighs less offensive than the thought of my things for sale when I'm dead.

"Many people, especially in the gay community, turn to oral sex as a safer alternative in the age of AIDS. And with HIV rates rising, people need to remember that oral sex is safer sex. It's a reasonable alternative."

The Service is available only to individuals who can form legally binding contracts under applicable law and are at least 18 years of age. If you are not at least 18 years of age, you may use the Service only if you are registered to use the Service by your parent or guardian and you are at least 14 years of age. Smart + Strong may refuse access to the Service to anyone, at any time, in its sole and absolute discretion.

Since you don't have to be a member to view should there be a warning in place of the adult content?

WOuld that not only apply to graphics, but graphic language? Not just expletives, but also discussions about sex and sexuality?

I submit this would be a slippery slope, and would curtail not only creative expression, but open and honest, even frank and explicit conversation.

Somewhere, somehow, on this internet, we ought to be able to have adult conversations without undue concern about minors who might ir might not be lurking.

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"Many people, especially in the gay community, turn to oral sex as a safer alternative in the age of AIDS. And with HIV rates rising, people need to remember that oral sex is safer sex. It's a reasonable alternative."

Hmmm, this comes from someone with one of the more offensive avatars I have ever seen on here. Pornographic, no, but quite insensitive on a board where most of the members are battling an incurable and, in the end, fatal disease.

Well I, also am one of those battling this incurable and in the end, fatal disease. I also didn't see anything wrong with that sign. After all, that IS what antique stores do. Did see the note under the picture?

BUT, since you find it insensitive and offensive I'm happy to take in down in the interests of your comfort and sensibilities.

I am sorry you did that, Elizabeth. I for one always appreciate gallows humor. Given the nature of this disease, one thing we CANT take too seriously is death. Send me the photo and I'll put it up as my own avatar

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"Many people, especially in the gay community, turn to oral sex as a safer alternative in the age of AIDS. And with HIV rates rising, people need to remember that oral sex is safer sex. It's a reasonable alternative."

JK I absolutely agree about this being a slippery slope, thats why I suggested an informal self policed policy as opposed to some hard and fast rule set by "management" We do need to be able to have adult conversations but we also need some mutually agreed upon guidelines for reasonable behavior.

If I posted an avatar of a naked George Bush wearing a t-shirt proclaiming "I hate fags" people would be angry and rightfully so, but to extend some of the theories floating around here it should be my right to do so. If the arguments some have posted are considered valid, there is absolutely no difference between my saying that, seeing someones pubes is offensive and you saying my george bush's t-shirt is offensive. The difficult part is agreeing on where to draw the line. We CAN draw a line without management's intervention. The other choice is pushing the envelope as we have been doing until someone gets in trouble, and formal guidelines are publishied. Then we'll have post after post about leaving because of censorship.

I can easily imagine that being his sleepy shirt, the one he wears to bed. Or cabinet meetings.

Like I said, when avatars become the focus of the group formed to offer support and information regarding HIV, methinks it's a diversion. You don't like avatars? put that person on ignore. Or turn avatars off.

You don't like gallows humor? Ignore the offenders.

Asking the group to submit to a single person's sensibilities seems to be rather selfish, I think.

If someone does not like my words, they ought to place me on ignore. Same goes with photos and stuff.

No offense, but this seems to be a tempest in a teapot to me.

Don't we have better things to think about? Like maybe AIDS?

Billions of them.

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"Many people, especially in the gay community, turn to oral sex as a safer alternative in the age of AIDS. And with HIV rates rising, people need to remember that oral sex is safer sex. It's a reasonable alternative."

you don't HAVE to turn off all avatars. Just put the person on ignore. WOuld be cool if the software allowed a person to ignore certain avatars yet see the others. But that seems rather complicated to me. And unnecessary.

And one can just as easily ask why your sensibilities have to be imposed on others, as well.

Like I said, don't we have more important things to do? LIke survive and support and stuff?

That having been said, I respectfully withdraw from this conversation.

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"Many people, especially in the gay community, turn to oral sex as a safer alternative in the age of AIDS. And with HIV rates rising, people need to remember that oral sex is safer sex. It's a reasonable alternative."

The point is Grinch, is you are the minority. What is offensive to you, may not be offensive to most others and you have been given ways to eliminate the problem if you don't care to view it. I don't like the idea of censorship in any fashion. Let me make my own decisions, what I view or read or don't want to. Should they shut down POZ and AidsMeds because someone doesn't like gays?

One man or woman's trash is another man or woman's treasure. That being said, all you really can do is report what you consider offensive to the moderators. In their infinite wisdom will the final ultimate decision be made. Take it or leave it.

I asked for a community wide line in the sand saying here's the difference between acceptable and unacceptable.I said we have in my mind begun to cross the line. I asked the we as a whole agree where that line should be.I promise you if we don't there will be a whole host of issues. The first of which is this will be classified as an adults only site. It will become mandatory that we have age verification records on each and every picture that is considered "lewd" This will mean a considerable expense for the operators of this site. Do we really want to head down that path?

You see......yet another person that can't have a discussion and present actual and coherent thoughts.Lets translate please....

"I don't like what you said therefor you're ridiculous" For the record I do have a taste for the sublime. Our definition of the word just differs.

I could care less if you want to watch underwater midget donkey porn, I'd like to have some mutually agreed upon level of respect for each others rights to not have to look at your damn pubes, or what ever the community as a whole determines is reasonable.

Instead of replying in a combative nature you could easily have made a clear and well thought out response to my post. Instead you choose snide remarks. Instead you'll wait until someone else decides what should be done and then complain about it.Have some balls and stand up for what you believe in instead of trying to rely on passive aggressive attacks and hoping someone else will step in.

I'm not asking anyone to follow my particular code of morality, I'm asking that we have a reasonable amount of community agreed upon, self restraint so that everyone including the young teens that visit can enjoy themselves without having to turn off features and place people on ignore

I apologize for the typo(s). I should never attempt to post when having just returned from work with a muddled (but sober) head.

But if references to "underwater midget donkey porn" aren't "snide remarks", then I'm no longer sure what qualifies. And if I "Have some balls and stand up for what you believe in instead of trying to rely on passive aggressive attacks", then I'll be accused of flaming, which I am not. But that simple paragraph is pure flame bait in my eyes. If I were really that passive-aggressive, I'd report it to the moderators.

And, since we're in the business of picking other's posts to pieces, please let me remind the children reading that:

"I could care less..." is an idiotic use of the idiom. One could not care less. "I could care less" actually means that you care a great deal.

Brent(Who is wide awake and coherent this morning)

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Blessed with brains, talent and gorgeous tits.

The revolutionary smart set reads The Spin Cycle at least once every day.

Avatars tell us a bit about the personality of it's poster. I don't mind the "skin and hair" avatars that some use but I'd sure prefer to see them placed in a larger size on the Porn thread. As a matter of fact, one of my favorite avatar's used by someone else (besides Nadine's hot one) is Johnoso's avatar of himself pulling down his pants and showing his white undies. It's naughty but nice...so why doesn't he place that large file on that other thread for some of us here?

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Catman

Meow to the birdsMeow to the tree'sMeow to the endof this dreadful disease...

I would imagine that anyone visiting a website purposed for the discussion of subject matter like HIV/AIDS and other sexually transmitted diseases should be able to handle most imagery and discussion of Man Things and Lady Places.

I fully trust the wisdom of Peter and the Mod Squad to keep us within the bounds before we had to resort to any drastic institutionalized measures. They've done a great job of doing so thus far.

I am sorry you did that, Elizabeth. I for one always appreciate gallows humor. Given the nature of this disease, one thing we CANT take too seriously is death. Send me the photo and I'll put it up as my own avatar