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I agree with Marvin..
But MY purchases are going to be ones that will enable me to protect myself,, and survive,, when Our government eventually will have no choice but to cut the off the open hand that waits for what they THINK they are entitled to.. It HAS to end someday..

Look around at other economies and countries,, and witness what happens when their "Giving" government just cant do it any longer..

There are tough times ahead...

My Main goal in life still remains as Owning a Dog that sits......

Its going well,, I just hope I get the chance to enjoy her..

My Vintage guns are basically useless...

I have to purchase guns to shoot steel shot..

My president wants to regulate my reloading.. and the ability to purchase the gun.
He wants to make my Gasoline so expensive,, I wont be able to enjoy travel and recreation..

That President,, As of January 1 ,, is going to Tax the company I work for enough, that they are considering closing down a small Machine shop and R&D department..

That President is working behind the scenes to by-pass the second amendment by making bed fellows out of the U.N.

There are going to be tough times ahead..

Gooser

Just curious if you support cutting off the hands of those receiving corporate welfare like the oil and drug companies or are you only talking about the poor?

The economies of other countries are dragging us down. You do realize that Europe went all in for austerity and is now going through a double dip. At least we did not take that route in the short term to make things worse here.

Oh, too bad you have to purchase steel shot. There is always bismuth.

Regulate your reloading?, please provide us with a link to evidence to support this.

So, you want the government to control gasoline prices? Sorry, but the market is doing that and a barrel of oil is never going to be less than $75 again. Deal with it. It is called supply and demand and something the right wing supports except regarding gas and then they want to blame the government.

Really, tax your company. Again, please provide a link to any evidence to support this. What new corporate tax? There is certainty now, everything should be getting better. It was all that uncertainty causing problems, right?

Right, bed fellows with the UN. That's a good one. Please provide the evidence.

Tough times, certainly not worse than four years ago when the bottom fell out. Stock market is way up. Many thousands of private sectors jobs created. Federal taxes are as low as they ever have been., etc.

What did Reagan say about nattering nabobs of negativism.....perhaps thicker tin foil will help some of you.

Marv, you only live once. It is hard to believe you'll be making the most of it if this is how you plan to carry out the next 4 years.

I lived through the depression in SD less than a 100 miles from where you live. Heat, clothing, food but no indoor plumbing, in fact like all from that era I grew up organic . When I tell that to the lefties, they have a hard time with a person as fiscally conservative as I thinking that was . I love to grow my own food & preserve it to share with the family. I learned to do without & found it not so bad. We find great pleasure in the simple things in life. There will be no new vehicles or trailers, home remodel is on hold, there are enough little projects to last the 4 years. Repairs to vehicles will do until we get someone in the WH who is competent. Our issue in this state is that there is a guy governor in the governor's manse capable of doing more damage than the POTUS. We can entertain ourselves with a lot of inexpensive things . Though we no longer eat a lot of meat we will stock up for the future next month when our son butchers. We love our grandkids & get great pleasure in watching them grow & mature into young adults. We'll see what the future brings .

Just curious if you support cutting off the hands of those receiving corporate welfare like the oil and drug companies or are you only talking about the poor?

The economies of other countries are dragging us down. You do realize that Europe went all in for austerity and is now going through a double dip. At least we did not take that route in the short term to make things worse here.

Oh, too bad you have to purchase steel shot. There is always bismuth.

Regulate your reloading?, please provide us with a link to evidence to support this.

So, you want the government to control gasoline prices? Sorry, but the market is doing that and a barrel of oil is never going to be less than $75 again. Deal with it. It is called supply and demand and something the right wing supports except regarding gas and then they want to blame the government.

Really, tax your company. Again, please provide a link to any evidence to support this. What new corporate tax? There is certainty now, everything should be getting better. It was all that uncertainty causing problems, right?

Right, bed fellows with the UN. That's a good one. Please provide the evidence.

Tough times, certainly not worse than four years ago when the bottom fell out. Stock market is way up. Many thousands of private sectors jobs created. Federal taxes are as low as they ever have been., etc.

What did Reagan say about nattering nabobs of negativism.....perhaps thicker tin foil will help some of you.

As far as In bed with the U.N.

Small arms treaty act..
behind the doors talks by Hillary Clinton and President Obama who both support the act.

Dear fellow American,Gun-grabbers around the globe believe they have it made.Secretary of State Hillary Clinton recently announced the Obama Administration will be working hand-in-glove with the UN to pass a new “Small Arms Treaty.”Disguised as an “International Arms Control Treaty” to fight against “terrorism,” “insurgency” and “international crime syndicates,” the UN’s Small Arms Treaty is in fact a massive, GLOBAL gun control scheme.

If passed by the UN and ratified by the U.S. Senate, the UN “Small Arms Treaty” would almost certainly FORCE the United States to:*** Enact tougher licensing requirements, making law-abiding Americans cut through even more bureaucratic red tape just to own a firearm legally;*** CONFISCATE and DESTROY ALL “unauthorized” civilian firearms (all firearms owned by the government are excluded, of course);*** BAN the trade, sale and private ownership of ALL semi-automatic weapons;*** Create an INTERNATIONAL gun registry, setting the stage for full-scale gun CONFISCATION.

I'm sure I don't have to tell you that this is NOT a fight we can afford to lose.I’m helping lead the fight to defeat this radical treaty in the United States Senate and I want your help.Please join me by taking a public stand AGAINST this outright assault on our national sovereignty by signing the Official Firearms Sovereignty Survey below!For Freedom,
Rand Paul
U.S. Senator (R-KY)

It was and still is almost impossible to get in bulk shot. In fact, I believe it is no longer manufactured for bulk shot for reloaders to use.. There are copies such as nice shot ect.. ridicuously expensive.

There are manufactured Bismuth loads available ridicously expensive,, but the manufactuer will not release pressure information. All they will say is it meets Saami standards..
Vintage guns Cannot safely shoot many of the Saami pressure accepted loads..

Last edited by MooseGooser; 11-12-2012 at 10:41 AM.

It is far easier to spit on the work of others than it is to produce something better yourself.Brynmoors Prairie Sage JH ​(Sage) Just a dang fool huntin DawgHRCH Calypso Seven Bales High SH (Bailey)HR Calypso Zoomin Loosies Mad Hader (Maddi) We loved you baby. R.I.P.FlatLanders Broken Pistol Ricochet SH (Flinch)

My Christian Name is Michael Baker..
I have gone by "Gooser" since I was a "gossling"

Just curious if you support cutting off the hands of those receiving corporate welfare like the oil and drug companies or are you only talking about the poor?

The economies of other countries are dragging us down. You do realize that Europe went all in for austerity and is now going through a double dip. At least we did not take that route in the short term to make things worse here.

Oh, too bad you have to purchase steel shot. There is always bismuth.

Regulate your reloading?, please provide us with a link to evidence to support this.

So, you want the government to control gasoline prices? Sorry, but the market is doing that and a barrel of oil is never going to be less than $75 again. Deal with it. It is called supply and demand and something the right wing supports except regarding gas and then they want to blame the government.

Really, tax your company. Again, please provide a link to any evidence to support this. What new corporate tax? There is certainty now, everything should be getting better. It was all that uncertainty causing problems, right?

Right, bed fellows with the UN. That's a good one. Please provide the evidence.

Tough times, certainly not worse than four years ago when the bottom fell out. Stock market is way up. Many thousands of private sectors jobs created. Federal taxes are as low as they ever have been., etc.

What did Reagan say about nattering nabobs of negativism.....perhaps thicker tin foil will help some of you.

That tax after a meeting called by our CEO, will cost the company 7 million dollars a year on average. Our small R&d machine shop was scheduled to purchase new machine tools.These tools have been cancelled.

These were majors machining centers controlled by CNC
several thousand dollars that would have gone into the U.S.economy

The company is now saying lay offs are quite possible

Last edited by MooseGooser; 11-12-2012 at 05:01 PM.

It is far easier to spit on the work of others than it is to produce something better yourself.Brynmoors Prairie Sage JH ​(Sage) Just a dang fool huntin DawgHRCH Calypso Seven Bales High SH (Bailey)HR Calypso Zoomin Loosies Mad Hader (Maddi) We loved you baby. R.I.P.FlatLanders Broken Pistol Ricochet SH (Flinch)

My Christian Name is Michael Baker..
I have gone by "Gooser" since I was a "gossling"

Looking this over sure makes me wish I had a bridge to sell. Apparently Rand Paul does.

Originally Posted by MooseGooser

As far as In bed with the U.N.

Small arms treaty act..
behind the doors talks by Hillary Clinton and President Obama who both support the act.

Dear fellow American,Gun-grabbers around the globe believe they have it made.Secretary of State Hillary Clinton recently announced the Obama Administration will be working hand-in-glove with the UN to pass a new “Small Arms Treaty.”Disguised as an “International Arms Control Treaty” to fight against “terrorism,” “insurgency” and “international crime syndicates,” the UN’s Small Arms Treaty is in fact a massive, GLOBAL gun control scheme.

If passed by the UN and ratified by the U.S. Senate, the UN “Small Arms Treaty” would almost certainly FORCE the United States to:*** Enact tougher licensing requirements, making law-abiding Americans cut through even more bureaucratic red tape just to own a firearm legally;*** CONFISCATE and DESTROY ALL “unauthorized” civilian firearms (all firearms owned by the government are excluded, of course);*** BAN the trade, sale and private ownership of ALL semi-automatic weapons;*** Create an INTERNATIONAL gun registry, setting the stage for full-scale gun CONFISCATION.

I'm sure I don't have to tell you that this is NOT a fight we can afford to lose.I’m helping lead the fight to defeat this radical treaty in the United States Senate and I want your help.Please join me by taking a public stand AGAINST this outright assault on our national sovereignty by signing the Official Firearms Sovereignty Survey below!For Freedom,
Rand Paul
U.S. Senator (R-KY)

It was and still is almost impossible to get in bulk shot. In fact, I believe it is no longer manufactured for bulk shot for reloaders to use.. There are copies such as nice shot ect.. ridicuously expensive.

There are manufactured Bismuth loads available ridicously expensive,, but the manufactuer will not release pressure information. All they will say is it meets Saami standards..
Vintage guns Cannot safely shoot many of the Saami pressure accepted loads..

"For everyone to whom much is given, of him shall much be required." -- Luke 12:48

Letís start with CIFTA. I found a fact sheet on it from 2002 and the wiki says it originated in 1997, so, this convention is nothing new. The article that you cite sure makes it seem like this is a new treaty. Hmmm, I wonder why. (fact sheet at http://www.fas.org/asmp/campaigns/sm...eGuide_DoS.htm)

I see nothing in the lines of the text that indicate that this treaty would do anything that your sources say. In fact, just the opposite. For example

RECOGNIZING that states have developed different cultural and historical uses for firearms, and that the purpose of enhancing international cooperation to eradicate illicit transnational trafficking in firearms is not intended to discourage or diminish lawful leisure or recreational activities such as travel or tourism for sport shooting, hunting, and other forms of lawful ownership and use recognized by the States Parties;
RECALLING that States Parties have their respective domestic laws and regulations in the areas of firearms, ammunition, explosives, and other related materials, and recognizing that this Convention does not commit States Parties to enact legislation or regulations pertaining to firearms ownership, possession, or trade of a wholly domestic character, and recognizing that States Parties will apply their respective laws and regulations in a manner consistent with this Convention;

The Rand Paul article is classic fear mongering propaganda. I see gun and ammo sales are going through the roof again. The gun and ammo companies must love when democrats get elected or re-elected. You would think people might get it after a while.

On the corporate tax, I figured it must have to be something with the affordable care act. Yes, a 2.3% excise tax on gross revenue will be levied across the board (i.e. fairly) to all medical devices sold in the U.S. This apparently was an acceptable part of the bill when it passed since revenue losses were expected to be offset by increased sales of devices since millions more people would have coverage and thus more devices would be sold. It is no surprise that this is now being used as a reason for job cuts, etc. by some, but there are contrasting views on its effect. See http://www.tnr.com/blog/plank/107878...al-device-tax# . It seems odd that a 2.3% sales tax would result in such dramatic effect on a highly profitable industry. Seem like the bigger concern is that this will increase health care costs. If your CEO claims that the company will take a $7 million cut then the company must have US sales of $304,347,826. I wonder what the profit margin is? If there is demand for the products and your company will not create them, I suppose that someone else will do so despite the 2.3% excise tax (as suggested in the article I posted above).

Boy, I am sure glad that we have not increased the excise tax on gasoline for the past 20 years because I would hate to see the oil companies pull up stakes, close refineries, etc.

Let’s start with CIFTA. I found a fact sheet on it from 2002 and the wiki says it originated in 1997, so, this convention is nothing new. The article that you cite sure makes it seem like this is a new treaty. Hmmm, I wonder why. (fact sheet at http://www.fas.org/asmp/campaigns/sm...eGuide_DoS.htm)

I see nothing in the lines of the text that indicate that this treaty would do anything that your sources say. In fact, just the opposite. For example

The Rand Paul article is classic fear mongering propaganda. I see gun and ammo sales are going through the roof again. The gun and ammo companies must love when democrats get elected or re-elected. You would think people might get it after a while.

On the corporate tax, I figured it must have to be something with the affordable care act. Yes, a 2.3% excise tax on gross revenue will be levied across the board (i.e. fairly) to all medical devices sold in the U.S. This apparently was an acceptable part of the bill when it passed since revenue losses were expected to be offset by increased sales of devices since millions more people would have coverage and thus more devices would be sold. It is no surprise that this is now being used as a reason for job cuts, etc. by some, but there are contrasting views on its effect. See http://www.tnr.com/blog/plank/107878...al-device-tax# . It seems odd that a 2.3% sales tax would result in such dramatic effect on a highly profitable industry. Seem like the bigger concern is that this will increase health care costs. If your CEO claims that the company will take a $7 million cut then the company must have US sales of $304,347,826. I wonder what the profit margin is? If there is demand for the products and your company will not create them, I suppose that someone else will do so despite the 2.3% excise tax (as suggested in the article I posted above).

Boy, I am sure glad that we have not increased the excise tax on gasoline for the past 20 years because I would hate to see the oil companies pull up stakes, close refineries, etc.