Lets face it - its no mystery that 18 hour milsims seem to be too long for the average shooter.

I'm also hard pressed to believe that those who are the drivers stay up all night without catching 40 winks at some point - and when you do the math, that can take numbers out of the game for however long.

Also - for the hardcore roughnecks who give it their all, all night long - nothing is more frustrating than finding someone to actually shoot when you're on the prowl and 'aint shit in sight.

Which leads me to my overall question which might help some hosts out(to which there are few these days!! I really miss some of the older ones, but that's a different subject all together)

How long should a milsim be? What would work better for people?

I've been to 12 hour milsims that were near flawless, it was brilliant. Im all for it and it prevents a lot of the mishaps and drop outs and any of the other shit that comes with 18hr or longer. IMO

Considering that most people have to drive 1-2 hours to the event, then there is the brief/ gearing time then the drive back even a 12 hr milsim end up being a full day thing. It is very hard for many people to actually stay for a night game because of many obligations we have.

All depends on the crowd and what's happening during said period of time.

We recently did our annual OP Woodsman. First mission started at aprox. 12 AM, ended officially Sunday morning, supposed to end Sunday at noon.
We had a bit of down time, some missions were volunteer base and it went great.

I think the current durations for milsims (18hr and 24hr) are fine. The issue is finding players that stick it out for the whole time! Like you said, nothing is more frustrating then to be patrolling endlessly searching for an enemy that isn't even on the field anymore.

Too many "Milsims" aren't Milsims.. They're skirmishes for 12-18h+ fighting back n forth over the same buildings/rooms/valleys/rivers. The last "real" MILSIM I attended we set up 3 man posts for security. Did rehearsals at night for the morning mission, rotated watch/sleep, and assaulted at dawn. All while the special operator nvg recce teams were behind enemy lines all night mapping out the enemy camp and our assault path.

Last Deadfall was 24 hours and saw almost nobody dropping out despite ridiculous amounts of rain. Deadfall next weekend is once again 24 hours, and I doubt we will see many if anybody leaving early.

Art of War was 30 hours last year and once again not many people dropped and it was an amazing game.

Athena II was 20 hours and an absolutely awesome game with everybody (or close to that) fighting till the end.

Ofcourse these are long durations but if you have a team of 30 players on each side, take turns sleeping, that is what makes a milsim so exciting by adding a resource management component.

So how long should a milsim be? It is up to the host. Offering milsims with different durations is probably best, this allows everybody to go to an event that suits them. One weekend I have lots of time so I want to go to a long game, one weekend I have less time so I want to go to a shorter game.

I don't think there is a best duration. Every players milage may be different depending on the weekend.

Personally, from past experience, I like 18 hour or longer milsims. Commutes to most games are long and I don't want to drive 3 hours for a short game. Plus I want to play a decent amount during the day and a decent amount at night. So overall I prefer the longer games that make a trip worth it and fill a weekend that is dedicated to airsoft with lots of game time. That being said, sometimes a short 8 hour milsim can be just as awesome as a 24 hour one.

Having yet to actually play a game, are MilSim players committed to the duration? Are uneducated players, like myself, welcome to play for as long as available? Is tactical education/experience manditory?

Too many "Milsims" aren't Milsims.. They're skirmishes for 12-18h+ fighting back n forth over the same buildings/rooms/valleys/rivers. The last "real" MILSIM I attended we set up 3 man posts for security. Did rehearsals at night for the morning mission, rotated watch/sleep, and assaulted at dawn. All while the special operator nvg recce teams were behind enemy lines all night mapping out the enemy camp and our assault path.

RIP OP WEREWOLF

^ This.

Also, players are not ready to pay 30$-40$ for a game where you might not even shoot 1 BB in your whole day. 2 years ago I attended this game where me and my buddies were a recon squad, and shot a total of 6 BBs inside 8 hours. Did I had my fun ? Hell yeah, regardless if I shot 6 or 6000 BBs in my game.

Having yet to actually play a game, are MilSim players committed to the duration? Are uneducated players, like myself, welcome to play for as long as available? Is tactical education/experience manditory?

This is hit or miss, as it depends on the player... Most of the hardcore guys will arrive and stick it out to the end but this could also apply to someone going to their first milsim game. It all depends on your frame of mind.

New guys are usually always welcome, as long as you display the willingness to learn, a commitment to staying in the fight, being mentally and physically prepared, and finally following your chain of command you'll be fine, and will likely be welcomed back to other ops.

Obviously previous tactical knowledge and experience will give you an edge... but if you don't have it there are few better ways to learn it

All depends on how much time you have to pursue this hobby, I like 18-24 a few times a year and some 8-12 hours to fill in the gaps. A lot of weekends I can only get out and skirmish 4-5 hours. Wife, kids, job and other interests limit many peoples free time.

Length of game is immaterial. There is no specification or standard required for a "milsim". Some will do well with a point at which it should end, others will end when the objectives have been completed, however long that will take.

Milsim is such an overused term as well. I agree with Leth that what I consider to be "milsim" are few and far between. There are certainly more seriously minded games out there, such as the OP No-Nods and Nightfall, but I would not count those as "milsim". They are still games with two equally sided forces fighting for essentially the same goals, with the same command structure. While these games were quite fun, the milsim to be had were in the private moments with small teams making their own experience milsim. Those teams that did that were able to continue through the entirety of the game, and I have no doubt would have continued to do so indefinitely until the conditions for stopping were met.

The key to making longer games last the whole time is to ensure strong leadership. Strong leadership at the heads of each faction, supported by strong leadership running the smaller units of folks beneath them doing the work, supported by strong leadership in the sub-units, and so on and so forth. Those that are able to keep track of their people to ensure that they are ready to endure the whole event will prevail, and they will maintain their entire force or close to it for the duration.

It's not the length of the game that matters, but it is the quality of those present, particularly those who are charged with leading others. A good leader will ensure that even if his least prepared member is adequately prepared or adequately looked after once it's apparent that this person's preparedness was lax.

Everyone is capable of doing the whole event, given the right rest, motivation and morale. This shit isn't hard, and it's generally, at most, 24 hours. Kid's play.

If you are not a leader, you still have a responsibility to ensure that you can endure the whole event. You can make preparations for yourself, and you can ensure that you are adequately equipped to take care of yourself, and your buddies. The problem is not the length of game, but in fact the mindset.

Also, players are not ready to pay 30$-40$ for a game where you might not even shoot 1 BB in your whole day. 2 years ago I attended this game where me and my buddies were a recon squad, and shot a total of 6 BBs inside 8 hours. Did I had my fun ? Hell yeah, regardless if I shot 6 or 6000 BBs in my game.

Aper & Leth are both on the money with this one - I couldn't agree more.

Truth be told - I feel its the night time where things begin to fall apart

Length of game is immaterial. There is no specification or standard required for a "milsim". Some will do well with a point at which it should end, others will end when the objectives have been completed, however long that will take.

Milsim is such an overused term as well. I agree with Leth that what I consider to be "milsim" are few and far between. There are certainly more seriously minded games out there, such as the OP No-Nods and Nightfall, but I would not count those as "milsim". They are still games with two equally sided forces fighting for essentially the same goals, with the same command structure. While these games were quite fun, the milsim to be had were in the private moments with small teams making their own experience milsim. Those teams that did that were able to continue through the entirety of the game, and I have no doubt would have continued to do so indefinitely until the conditions for stopping were met.

The key to making longer games last the whole time is to ensure strong leadership. Strong leadership at the heads of each faction, supported by strong leadership running the smaller units of folks beneath them doing the work, supported by strong leadership in the sub-units, and so on and so forth. Those that are able to keep track of their people to ensure that they are ready to endure the whole event will prevail, and they will maintain their entire force or close to it for the duration.

It's not the length of the game that matters, but it is the quality of those present, particularly those who are charged with leading others. A good leader will ensure that even if his least prepared member is adequately prepared or adequately looked after once it's apparent that this person's preparedness was lax.

Everyone is capable of doing the whole event, given the right rest, motivation and morale. This shit isn't hard, and it's generally, at most, 24 hours. Kid's play.

If you are not a leader, you still have a responsibility to ensure that you can endure the whole event. You can make preparations for yourself, and you can ensure that you are adequately equipped to take care of yourself, and your buddies. The problem is not the length of game, but in fact the mindset.

Truth be told - I feel its the night time where things begin to fall apart

RIP Jaguar Kings & Wolfpack games!

The old ops at WP Primary were more MilSim than the more recent 18-24hr sims.
WP Primary Played well into the night and thru to Morning hours. Celebrating in true Military fashion with war stories Booze and Spray-Bombs. What's missing from the recent games is the hours of Camaraderie. Real team building is helping your opponent back to his Hooch after Bears, Beers, beerzz beer and Chili farts gone wrong. Start 830 game over at 430-500 Dinner roast and then fire lights 830-900. War stories till Drunk or dawn what ever comes first. The AARs on Monday are full of Legends.