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Originally posted by rojo6934I think that they should have tried to innovate, but they didnt even think about that. In fact, they dont even allow players to interact with water. They went backwards in some aspects. But hey, for some reason i enjoyed the beta and if they expand the game (including adding swiming and water content) ill subscribe for more than a couple months. I love Limsa Lominsa, but a port city where fishing is one of the main jobs there and you cant even get in the water is just ridiculous.

Did you even play this game? You can get into the water /facepalm

Any graphical, audio, or gameplay restrictions not seen in other mmos but found in FFXIV can be blamed on one thing.PS3

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Originally posted by Ehllfhire

Originally posted by rojo6934I think that they should have tried to innovate, but they didnt even think about that. In fact, they dont even allow players to interact with water. They went backwards in some aspects. But hey, for some reason i enjoyed the beta and if they expand the game (including adding swiming and water content) ill subscribe for more than a couple months. I love Limsa Lominsa, but a port city where fishing is one of the main jobs there and you cant even get in the water is just ridiculous.

Did you even play this game? You can get into the water /facepalm

Few things that you can tell if someone has never played this game before. It doesn't play like FFXI, it's a whole nother game.

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Originally posted by rojo6934I think that they should have tried to innovate, but they didnt even think about that. In fact, they dont even allow players to interact with water. They went backwards in some aspects. But hey, for some reason i enjoyed the beta and if they expand the game (including adding swiming and water content) ill subscribe for more than a couple months. I love Limsa Lominsa, but a port city where fishing is one of the main jobs there and you cant even get in the water is just ridiculous.

Why do you think they should have tried to innovate? What do you think they should have added that would have been innovative and better? Then ask yourself, is that really better for everyone or just your preference? Will it work as well as the tried and true? This is what hung GW2 up IMO. What they brought to the table replaced the older mechanics but didn't improve on them. Or if there were improvements, they also came with some heavy tradeoffs.

The whole reason MMOs in particular have this sheep herd mentality that innovation is needed to make a new game is because of all the games that released that sucked. Somehow the idea that they sucked simply because they copied WoW got branded to them. The fact is, they really didn't copy WOW. None of them were successful clones. If those games had the same feel as WoW and had managed to get it right and still failed, then there would be some merit to the term "WoW Clone" in the context it's thrown around here. Those games don't suck because they copied WoW's format. They sucked because they failed to copy WoW's format. But now everyone says, "If you copy WoW's format you will fail" But what game has actually done that successfully? None. They are all just bad copies.

Maybe this one has gotten it. Certainly it feels like it early on. I guess time will tell, but I'm optimistic.

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The whole reason MMOs in particular have this sheep herd mentality that innovation is needed to make a new game...

It is not a sheep herd mentality, it comes from logical reasoning.

Other genres don't need innovation, because there is no long term progress. You can play chess game, or all competitive multiplayers and switch between them because they are short experiences and each time you start from the beginning. Even single player rpg's are short journeys, and you play them for the short stories they supply.

In case of mmorpg it is a one long run that takes many years, and it is progressing from day one to the end. A game has to do a lot more than new graphics and story to make you abandon all the years of progress in other game and start all over.

The nature of mmorpg is very different from any other genre and comparing it to them is not reasonable.

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The whole reason MMOs in particular have this sheep herd mentality that innovation is needed to make a new game...

It is not a sheep herd mentality, it comes from logical reasoning.

Other genres don't need innovation, because there is no long term progress. You can play chess game, or all competitive multiplayers and switch between them because they are short experiences and each time you start from the beginning. Even single player rpg's are short journeys, and you play them for the short stories they supply.

In case of mmorpg it is a one long run that takes many years, and it is progressing from day one to the end. A game has to do a lot more than new graphics and story to make you abandon all the years of progress in other game and start all over.

The nature of mmorpg is very different from any other genre and comparing it to them is not reasonable.

But the hole in your logical reasoning is that all this innovation has not extended the longevity of these games. In fact just the opposite. Some of the longest running games weren't very innovative, yet some of the most innovative hardly lasted weeks for many. Long term progress does not need innovation, it needs stability. If somethign isn't working, then maybe innovation is required. But w hen you have something that works, DON'T FCK WITH IT!

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Visually yes, some added feature's, but most often the core remains the same.....right?

Sometimes it's not needed to offer something completely new (it sure is welcome)

It's just that the second part needs to be better, doesn't have to change much, but just better, this can be visually, this can be content wise, this could be many things but it still doesn't mean it has to be something new.

Again I welcome the new I will addept, unfortunaly and judging forums many can't addept, they want something new and if something new is provided they the players remain in their one type playstyle. They are not willing to try something new because they are just into their own playstyle which they use in every game. Kind the reason in my opinion why I keep hearing this term WoW-Clone so much.

The whole reason MMOs in particular have this sheep herd mentality that innovation is needed to make a new game...

It is not a sheep herd mentality, it comes from logical reasoning.

Other genres don't need innovation, because there is no long term progress. You can play chess game, or all competitive multiplayers and switch between them because they are short experiences and each time you start from the beginning. Even single player rpg's are short journeys, and you play them for the short stories they supply.

In case of mmorpg it is a one long run that takes many years, and it is progressing from day one to the end. A game has to do a lot more than new graphics and story to make you abandon all the years of progress in other game and start all over.

The nature of mmorpg is very different from any other genre and comparing it to them is not reasonable.

But the hole in your logical reasoning is that all this innovation has not extended the longevity of these games. In fact just the opposite. Some of the longest running games weren't very innovative, yet some of the most innovative hardly lasted weeks for many. Long term progress does not need innovation, it needs stability. If somethign isn't working, then maybe innovation is required. But w hen you have something that works, DON'T FCK WITH IT!

Innovation was not supposed to extend longlivety of mmo's, it was suppose to keep it at a reasonable level. You can't relate drops in player numbers directly to innovation or the lack of it, there are to many other factors. And it is also questionable, whether any recent mmorpg made any innovation.

I will repeat what I said, why would you leave something that you are already good at and already achieved a lot in so many years, only to start the same sh*t over from the beginning? For new skill names? For new character models and colors? 5 years of progress for cosmetics? That would be masochistic. You were probably bored of the game already and wanted to try something different, now you have to switch to other genre, because this one has all the same.

The bright side of that is that now, with oculus on its way and some great technologies like the improved transfer of player facial expressions into character in EQN, we will have such technological advancement, we will be able to play all the same old sh*t all over again only to experience it in full dimention. I can already see how "new" games will look in the next few years... World of Warcraft 3D, Lineage 3D, Guild Wars 3D. Don't worry, you will have your share of the same soon.

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Visually yes, some added feature's, but most often the core remains the same.....right?

Sometimes it's not needed to offer something completely new (it sure is welcome)

I disagree. If you are innovating, you better know what is lacking and how it needs to be impoved 1st. And does it really need improvement?

It's just that the second part needs to be better, doesn't have to change much, but just better, this can be visually, this can be content wise, this could be many things but it still doesn't mean it has to be something new.

This can be achieved without innovation. It's exactly what Blizzard did with WoW.

Again I welcome the new I will addept, unfortunaly and judging forums many can't addept, they want something new and if something new is provided they the players remain in their one type playstyle. They are not willing to try something new because they are just into their own playstyle which they use in every game. Kind the reason in my opinion why I keep hearing this term WoW-Clone so much.

I am not against anything new. But I am a huge believer in if it ain't broke, don't fix it. This genre wasn't broke back in the early part of last decade. It didn't need to be fixed, yet they tried to fix it. Now it's broke.

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I'd rather have the poorly thought out but interesting original back than this by the numbers WoW clone.

Why bother? I mean honestly why bother?

Because it's fun. Just not to you. Is that so hard to understand? /rollseyes

Is it more fun than the other games that are identical to it, and have had more years to polish and add content? I doubt it.

Is it fun enough to make people want to play it more than a few weeks before they get bored because its the same thing they've been doing for 8 years? Doubt it.

Themeparks have no staying power.

Yes because Everquest, Asheron's Call, World of Warcraft all failed and died within 8 years....Oh wait...EQ is still going, Asheron's Call is still going, and so is WoW....

AC and EQ are old school...not themepark. WoW was new at the timeand highly polished unlike anything seen before. Many people are fried on quest hubs and linear gameplay. I can't believe most of you didn't get sick of this type of game after years of WoW exposure...not to mention the countless linear themeparks released in the last 5 years. You are either a ff fan or someone who isn't tired of linear themeparks to tolerate this game.

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I'd rather have the poorly thought out but interesting original back than this by the numbers WoW clone.

Why bother? I mean honestly why bother?

Because it's fun. Just not to you. Is that so hard to understand? /rollseyes

Is it more fun than the other games that are identical to it, and have had more years to polish and add content? I doubt it.

Is it fun enough to make people want to play it more than a few weeks before they get bored because its the same thing they've been doing for 8 years? Doubt it.

Themeparks have no staying power.

Yes because Everquest, Asheron's Call, World of Warcraft all failed and died within 8 years....Oh wait...EQ is still going, Asheron's Call is still going, and so is WoW....

Asheron's Call is a sandbox. EverQuest is as far from themepark as a themepark can be and circumvents all the problems that cause themeparks to fizzle and die. WoW is a once in a lifetime fluke sustained by the biggest marketing campaign in the industry.

If you're going to try to argue, at least learn about the games you're name dropping. AC and EQ predate the modern themepark, and all its design flaws.

Meanwhile, modern themeparks, like NW, AoC, Rift, SWTOR, STO, have crashed and burned rather quickly. (some quicker than others)

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Originally posted by Stuckov

I mean look at the First Person shooter genre. There has not been a change to Call of Duty for 10+ years except just new story but it still goes and becomes best selling game with hordes sleeping outside stores to buy it every time it comes out.

A good game can be enjoyed for just that, being good.

You dont make any sense man. A new mmorpg have to reinvent the genre to have any success.

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Originally posted by Mardukk

AC and EQ are old school...not themepark. WoW was new at the timeand highly polished unlike anything seen before. Many people are fried on quest hubs and linear gameplay. I can't believe most of you didn't get sick of this type of game after years of WoW exposure...not to mention the countless linear themeparks released in the last 5 years. You are either a ff fan or someone who isn't tired of linear themeparks to tolerate this game.

Some of us didn't spend years playing games like WOW, as well as moved on quickly from games we didn't like. Sometimes it's sounds like some were forced into playing games they hate or something.

For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson

It is a sign of a defeated man, to attack at ones character in the face of logic and reason- Me