I say we don't kill Palmar today. His goofy attitude can easily be explained that he's town. He just claimed mafia in Personality (let's say he's not lying), which means he just played two games as mafia recently: Personality and PTP2. Both games he attempted to be normal and blend in; there wasn't any of this odd posting. I don't think he would radically change his style like this if he was mafia again.

Going to start the count because I know it's coming:# people who accuse me of defending my scumbuddy: 0

geript: "Foolishness's cases are persuasive and reasonable but leave you feeling dirty afterwards. Kinda like a whore." ---- Manager of the TL Mafia forum, come play!

On August 20 2011 11:11 Palmar wrote:Anyone who thinks I'm promoting pro-mafia atmosphere needs to have his head checked. I took this thread and turned it from discussing vague plans and policies to a full-out scumhunting festival.

Or they could just read my post. But nevermind that YOURE OBV MAFIA

geript: "Foolishness's cases are persuasive and reasonable but leave you feeling dirty afterwards. Kinda like a whore." ---- Manager of the TL Mafia forum, come play!

Man none of these lynch targets look particularly good. Xtfftc has a few ?? posts but I just don't see the mafia in there. If Palmar is mafia he's on drugs. Kurumi cannot be justified yet, and I need to hear more from Sevryn until I'm convinced he isn't green. RayzorFlash's ninja vote is suspicious but not damning.

WAIT FOUND SOMETHING

On August 20 2011 08:03 Mig wrote:Sevryn is by far the scummiest. His vote on DB had a ridiculously scummy reason behind it. After he got called out on it he back peddles and claims it was just a pressure vote. And he says he didn't see anything scummy about DB and his only reason for pressure voting was again because of something palmar did it swedish mafia. And then he says he took the vote off not really because he thought db was innocent but he didn't want to get lynched for bandwagoning lol. Sevryn is just lol scum.

No way I'm going to let you get away with that unnoticed.##Vote Mig

geript: "Foolishness's cases are persuasive and reasonable but leave you feeling dirty afterwards. Kinda like a whore." ---- Manager of the TL Mafia forum, come play!

He voted without bringing anything new to the table. That's his only post he's made this game that's been longer than 2 lines. His post says "lol he's scum vote", that wall of text you see there is gibberish.

And the other games I've played with Mig he's been town, and I definitely don't ever remember him ever making a post with this kind of attitude.

geript: "Foolishness's cases are persuasive and reasonable but leave you feeling dirty afterwards. Kinda like a whore." ---- Manager of the TL Mafia forum, come play!

On August 20 2011 11:37 Foolishness wrote:He voted without bringing anything new to the table. That's his only post he's made this game that's been longer than 2 lines. His post says "lol he's scum vote", that wall of text you see there is gibberish.

And the other games I've played with Mig he's been town, and I definitely don't ever remember him ever making a post with this kind of attitude.

Foolish can you tell us precisely why you don't suspect Sevryn?

You said that you need to hear more from him, when his first post itself was easily more scummy than Mig's, let alone those that followed. So why does one post of Mig's stick out to you, but one post of Sevryn's isn't enough?

Sevryn at least came back to explain himself. Yes his first vote post was a little strange but he said it was just to pressure. Also he confirmed Palmar's attitude is the same as Swedish mafia when he (Palmar) was town. I can confirm Palmar is not acting like he is when he is mafia. That's two people using past behavior to confirm Palmar as innocent.

Sevryn also pointed out a ninja vote, that's a plus in my book but I can understand if you think it doesn't say one way or another. You can easily wait a day with him. If he goes mia and refuses to post unless asked then kill him tomorrow. If he willingly posts on his own and is somewhat active then let him be.

On August 20 2011 09:57 Foolishness wrote:I say we don't kill Palmar today. His goofy attitude can easily be explained that he's town. He just claimed mafia in Personality (let's say he's not lying), which means he just played two games as mafia recently: Personality and PTP2. Both games he attempted to be normal and blend in; there wasn't any of this odd posting. I don't think he would radically change his style like this if he was mafia again.

Going to start the count because I know it's coming:# people who accuse me of defending my scumbuddy: 0

Well if you go back a little further to SNMMV, (where he was mafia), you'll see him playing like he is in this game. I'm not saying that he's mafia this game, but basing scum reads solely off of previous games is NOT a reliable way to go.

On July 22 2011 18:34 Palmar wrote:lol, I can see why people say you're good Ace, you somehow convinced half the thread that a random lynch on day 1 is a good idea?

Like, I've played 8 mafia games, 5 of them we've lynched scum or 3rd party on day 1. That's far higher than 25%.

Is this just some clever ploy to start a discussion or try to figure out who is going to be the scummy white knight who trashes your plan?

btw, Killing ace day1 is stupid, just lynch him day 2 because the mafia will shoot him if he's not part of their team.

On July 22 2011 21:26 Palmar wrote:your mother.

But it's still interesting.

Ace proposes terrible plan, Jacinto and VE don't like it, DragonReborn actually likes it. Like.. would scum actually take the chance? The lynch isn't really 25% chance because the mafia can co-ordinate their votes, if they so please, so I think what DragonReborn did was stupid, but probably not scummy.

On July 23 2011 03:15 Palmar wrote:Ace's argument is basically revolved around this sentence.

From town perspective it doesn't make any sense, as judging by the sample of games I've played town has more like 50%+ chance of hitting mafia on day one, so if you're town, you should by logic never agree to this plan.

This is brilliant, from this sentence, Ace pulls two things that simply aren't true.

point a) he says I claim to speak for town.

This is incorrect, I say this in a general way "Looking at any given mafia game from the perspective of the town players" would've been more accurate, but I assumed that people wouldn't try to twist things that aren't there.

and point b) he says that I'm throwing around false facts, again, just not true.

If people actually bother to read the sentence, you can see I specifically say "and judging by the 8 games that I have played". Any statistician will tell you the sample size is too small to really mean anything, but it's all I have, so I throw it out there. Feel free to provide more statistics.

So, Ace is being guilty of exactly the thing that he has accused me of, namely putting words in people's mouth. Sure, I felt after initially reading the thread that there was more support for the RL plan than there actually was. And I wrote the post on DR without actually checking if he had explicitly suggested we RL, while in truth he had simply said he'd be fine with it.

Now, that this is out of the way, I really want people to take a look at the list that DR posted, it really, really is something that strikes me as very odd.

And yes town, this is Ace leading a bad lynch, I'm not still sure if it's because he is scum and this is the best thing he could come up with, or if it's because he simply didn't read/understand my posts.

There is a deliberate attempt by him to contribute something. Sometimes he succeeds, other times you can see the mafia in him. That's what I noticed in his other games as mafia; he makes paragraphs in his post to try to blend in. This game there aren't any paragraphs of trying to blend in, just "let's kill this guy". Yes, I agree that his town contribution is lacking at this point, but he isn't making an attempt to hide himself as almost all mafia do.

I've nailed tons of mafia based on past behavior. You shouldn't say it's unreliable. I agree it on its own isn't sufficient, but it's an incredibly powerful tool. I'm not voting for Palmar anytime soon.

geript: "Foolishness's cases are persuasive and reasonable but leave you feeling dirty afterwards. Kinda like a whore." ---- Manager of the TL Mafia forum, come play!

On August 20 2011 15:14 Mig wrote:You are really stretching on a couple points to make me appear scummy foolish. Your meta argument is null at best, you say I don't post with attitude as town yet you provide no examples of me doing it as mafia. My post wasn't a text wall or gibberish I concisely summed up sevryn's scummy actions in a few lines. Your point about me not adding anything new is accurate but I would rather state what convinced me of sevryn being scum than vote and give no reasons.

Your defense of Sevryn is extremely suspect. Your reasons for defending him are he pointed out a stealth vote and he came back to defend himself? Really did you read his defense? He came back posted 4 lines in which he said A) he sheeped palmar to pressure vote someone he didn't find scummy and B) he took his vote off because he was afraid people would lynch him for it. What type of player is more likely to vote for someone they think is innocent and then immediately backtrack once people call them out because they don't want to be lynched, town or mafia? Yet somehow that defense was good enough to alleviate your suspicions......

Sevryn is still by far the best lynch today.

It's more about opportunity cost at this point. If Sevryn is mafia we can expect him to be inactive the rest of today, tonight, and tomorrow if we leave him alone. If he's town he will be active and posting his own thoughts. Half way through tomorrow it should be immediately clear what his role is.

You on the other hand I'm not so sure of.

geript: "Foolishness's cases are persuasive and reasonable but leave you feeling dirty afterwards. Kinda like a whore." ---- Manager of the TL Mafia forum, come play!

It's more about opportunity cost at this point. If Sevryn is mafia we can expect him to be inactive the rest of today, tonight, and tomorrow if we leave him alone. If he's town he will be active and posting his own thoughts. Half way through tomorrow it should be immediately clear what his role is.

You on the other hand I'm not so sure of.

Ah so it's just that easy if sevryn lurks he is mafia but if he is active he is town. Why ignore all the scummy things he has done already? Instead of addressing any of his actions you are instead just defending him with well we can tell whether he is town or not if we let him live awhile. Why does that reasoning not apply to everyone?

Because you're a good player?

geript: "Foolishness's cases are persuasive and reasonable but leave you feeling dirty afterwards. Kinda like a whore." ---- Manager of the TL Mafia forum, come play!

I would also like to beg to differ that I'm "defending" him. I'm not convinced yet that he's mafia, and I stated why I think that. Thus I'd rather take the wait and see approach. As I somewhat said, he's already got a few strikes; if he doesn't shape up then we kill him. Just because I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt right now does not mean I am defending him. I don't defend other people, I state why or how their actions could be misconstrued.

geript: "Foolishness's cases are persuasive and reasonable but leave you feeling dirty afterwards. Kinda like a whore." ---- Manager of the TL Mafia forum, come play!

he agree's with dropbears mayor plan which gives one person the power to decide between tow people and chooses someone who hasn't been acting super pro town. This scream scummy to me, inactive and then comes in with a single line to vote on a not very town plan imo.

so until he defends himself some more i'm goign to vote sevryn but foolishness needs to post something more or I am going to start pushing for his lynch.

QuickSilver7 pointed out how this was scummy of me to say I Think foolishness is scum and then vote for sevryn but the fact is this is a majority lynch system the fact that sevryn looks scummy and has the most votes on him is enough to vote for him unless more people agreed with me but he is the only one who seemed to read my post.

The next page after I made my post calling Foolishness inactive he posts quite a few times while not addressing my post at all. Most of his posts are taking a very on the fence position. accusing quite a few people of being scum but yet he's not so sure sevryn is. This feels like he is trying to distance himself from Sevryn.

I think foolishness is a great target for the next lynch.

There was nothing to respond to from your original post that would have just been fluff and a waste of time for the town. You called me inactive and now I'm here posting. What more do you want?

Where are the "quite of a few people of being scum"? I didn't like the Sevryn lynch of any of the other candidates (the bears, Palmar, etc) so I proposed my own lynch because Mig made a bad post. If you can find the post I made I'd appreciate it.

Mig accused me of defending Sevryn. You are accusing me of distancing myself from Sevryn. Make up your mind people. I stated my reasons why I don't like the Sevryn lynch by bringing a new perspective to the table. I'd rather lynch Sevryn than nobody of course, but that doesn't mean I'm going to just sit and let it happen.

geript: "Foolishness's cases are persuasive and reasonable but leave you feeling dirty afterwards. Kinda like a whore." ---- Manager of the TL Mafia forum, come play!

On August 21 2011 05:44 Trotske wrote:The next page after I made my post calling Foolishness inactive he posts quite a few times while not addressing my post at all.

Your post was stupid. DropBear's campaign for mayor is something worth analysing but it's not like it was going to happen, ever. Foolishness was simply acting funny.If you want to go against Foolishness, don't base your post around such a worthless argument.

Also, Supersoft, after crying out about how I was avoiding casting my vote for Sevryn, we are facing the possibility of a non-linch due to you (and Jackal) unvoting.

I actually thought DropBear's mayor thing was a good idea.

geript: "Foolishness's cases are persuasive and reasonable but leave you feeling dirty afterwards. Kinda like a whore." ---- Manager of the TL Mafia forum, come play!