LittleGuy wrote:I suspect the America's #2 leg will come down to aggregate. Los Teros are very much a Tier 3 side when they travel but play like a Tier 2 side at home. I think Canada need to get all the pro's out to Vancouver and beat the snot out of Uruguay at home. Head down to Montevideo and hang on for dear life.

The question is, how likely are we to get our pros during Six Nations season...

RWC qualifiers are a mandatory player release regardless of when they are played. Canada will be at full strength.

RivalBlue wrote:Canadian_Rugger, thank you for contributing to the game here in Ontario! I think you bring up some great points, however it seems it all comes down to geographical issues and where you are located. Ontario is just so huge and I think we all face travel issues at all levels. I do expect Rugby Ontario to address these issues in the coming years though. It would be interesting to hear what you would do to get your players noticed.

Also in other news, Ontario Blues just beat The Rock 29-17 in Peterborough. Quite a few players were missing for the Blues.

iul wrote:Maybe Canada Rugby could give each club a couple of "tickets" to send players to these regional tryouts on Canada Rugby's expense, instead of having to pass the cost to the players.

It would be up to the PSO, not Rugby Canada...so in this case Rugby Ontario. Fees are usually waived by the club as it is what my club did for me when I was a junior.

RivalBlue,

I've got tonnes of ideas with respect to junior rugby, some would require significant changes to the present system. I'll focus on a few key areas in my follow up to you.

1. The "Hub" concept - I personally feel the de-centralized model is a good idea in theory; however, where it fails is at the execution phase. The idea of having players who "want" (I didn't say should) mass in camps for four weekends in the middle of the Rugby season is a flawed development pathway because it directly competes with the already limited junior season. This is at an age group where players are still very raw and what they need is "game time" not "elite" camps. I've noted a number of kids who are attending "hubs" that can barely string a pass together at club practice yet they're paying top dollar to attend these camps when what they should be doing is getting more game time. Comparing it to Ice Hockey, it's the equivalent of having everyone attend a hockey school while also playing for their respective team. There is a reason hockey schools are in the summer when the normal season isn't running.

Recommendation - Keep the de-centralized talent identification model (Ontario West, East, Central); however, do away with the camps themselves and rely on scouting, coach tapes and recommendations for selection. The provincial team coaches are already identified so rather than holding practices for players, what they should be doing is observing players under actual game conditions. This would culminate in an invitation near the end of the season to play for the provincial team. Right now I've got kids missing half their games because they're attending "Hubs". I would get rid of the entire hub program right up until the July 31st Inter-hub series where a mini-tournament could be held for the scouts to identify the provincial team.

2. Elite Rugby - what exactly is it? From my observation, it seems a lot like it's if you've got enough money you can play Elite Rugby, if you don't too bad. We are missing a gigantic spread of players because of this. #3 player that I identified in my list above. I can almost guarantee you that if money were no object, he could walk in to the provincial U16 side and make the team, he is that good and has the right athletic attributes to make it in Rugby. This model works in Ice Hockey because we've got the numbers in Canada to make up the difference in that sport. It also still works because there is a professional game above that does its own talent identification. Rugby doesn't have the numbers and we don't have a professional game that does its own talent identification; therefore, the model is totally broken.

Recommendation - We need a complete revisit of how we ID talent. My biggest problem is the Rugby community lacks money because we don't have any shrewd business people involved in the sport. Talented athletes should not be limited by cash; therefore, we need to come up with a new funding model based on fundraising and sponsorship.

3. Club model at junior level - I think the club model causes some difficulties for junior sides for a number of reasons. A rugby club is as much a social club as it is a sports team; however, is this social club important at junior level?

I would say probably not which is why I would advocate for a separate approach in Junior Rugby. Rugby has to be one of the few team sports at the junior level that tries to run off a club model and it's an inefficient way to do business at this level for a number of reasons (administration, governance, competing interests, etc) which is why other sports (ice hockey, football, baseball, etc.) run separate organizations (i.e. minors associations) to administer their programs.

Feel free to correct me but do clubs in Ottawa or anywhere else in Ontario have clear jurisdictional boundaries of where they can draw their players from? I understand that certain clubs have strategically targeted certain areas; however, having taken a quick look through certain club pages websites, it seems all are welcome at every club? It appears we have a situation where clubs are competing for scarce resources and there isn't enough supply to meet the demand i.e. satisfy individual clubs desires to field a junior team.

Recommendation - I advocate for a complete separation of junior and men's club rugby. Rugby Ontario should stand up a task force with the goal of creating minor rugby associations with very clear geographic boundaries and population cachement areas. Every other sport does it because it's a proven method of doing business at the junior level in Canada.

In Ottawa and everywhere else (I suspect) it is a free for all for junior rugby. Each club gets as many players as they can. Some get 70, some get 10, some get 17. Some players travel across the city because their high school coach is affiliated with a club there. Every year games are cancelled, teams play 13 on 13, scores are crazy lopsided or teams fold.

LittleGuy wrote:I suspect the America's #2 leg will come down to aggregate. Los Teros are very much a Tier 3 side when they travel but play like a Tier 2 side at home. I think Canada need to get all the pro's out to Vancouver and beat the snot out of Uruguay at home. Head down to Montevideo and hang on for dear life.

The question is, how likely are we to get our pros during Six Nations season...

RWC qualifiers are a mandatory player release regardless of when they are played. Canada will be at full strength.

Sort of. French clubs pressure players to stay or they will be unemployed. Ask the Islanders who miss top talent all the time for games.

RivalBlue wrote:Canadian_Rugger, thank you for contributing to the game here in Ontario! I think you bring up some great points, however it seems it all comes down to geographical issues and where you are located. Ontario is just so huge and I think we all face travel issues at all levels. I do expect Rugby Ontario to address these issues in the coming years though. It would be interesting to hear what you would do to get your players noticed.

Also in other news, Ontario Blues just beat The Rock 29-17 in Peterborough. Quite a few players were missing for the Blues.

iul wrote:Maybe Canada Rugby could give each club a couple of "tickets" to send players to these regional tryouts on Canada Rugby's expense, instead of having to pass the cost to the players.

It would be up to the PSO, not Rugby Canada...so in this case Rugby Ontario. Fees are usually waived by the club as it is what my club did for me when I was a junior.

RivalBlue,

I've got tonnes of ideas with respect to junior rugby, some would require significant changes to the present system. I'll focus on a few key areas in my follow up to you.

1. The "Hub" concept - I personally feel the de-centralized model is a good idea in theory; however, where it fails is at the execution phase. The idea of having players who "want" (I didn't say should) mass in camps for four weekends in the middle of the Rugby season is a flawed development pathway because it directly competes with the already limited junior season. This is at an age group where players are still very raw and what they need is "game time" not "elite" camps. I've noted a number of kids who are attending "hubs" that can barely string a pass together at club practice yet they're paying top dollar to attend these camps when what they should be doing is getting more game time. Comparing it to Ice Hockey, it's the equivalent of having everyone attend a hockey school while also playing for their respective team. There is a reason hockey schools are in the summer when the normal season isn't running.

Recommendation - Keep the de-centralized talent identification model (Ontario West, East, Central); however, do away with the camps themselves and rely on scouting, coach tapes and recommendations for selection. The provincial team coaches are already identified so rather than holding practices for players, what they should be doing is observing players under actual game conditions. This would culminate in an invitation near the end of the season to play for the provincial team. Right now I've got kids missing half their games because they're attending "Hubs". I would get rid of the entire hub program right up until the July 31st Inter-hub series where a mini-tournament could be held for the scouts to identify the provincial team.

2. Elite Rugby - what exactly is it? From my observation, it seems a lot like it's if you've got enough money you can play Elite Rugby, if you don't too bad. We are missing a gigantic spread of players because of this. #3 player that I identified in my list above. I can almost guarantee you that if money were no object, he could walk in to the provincial U16 side and make the team, he is that good and has the right athletic attributes to make it in Rugby. This model works in Ice Hockey because we've got the numbers in Canada to make up the difference in that sport. It also still works because there is a professional game above that does its own talent identification. Rugby doesn't have the numbers and we don't have a professional game that does its own talent identification; therefore, the model is totally broken.

Recommendation - We need a complete revisit of how we ID talent. My biggest problem is the Rugby community lacks money because we don't have any shrewd business people involved in the sport. Talented athletes should not be limited by cash; therefore, we need to come up with a new funding model based on fundraising and sponsorship.

3. Club model at junior level - I think the club model causes some difficulties for junior sides for a number of reasons. A rugby club is as much a social club as it is a sports team; however, is this social club important at junior level?

I would say probably not which is why I would advocate for a separate approach in Junior Rugby. Rugby has to be one of the few team sports at the junior level that tries to run off a club model and it's an inefficient way to do business at this level for a number of reasons (administration, governance, competing interests, etc) which is why other sports (ice hockey, football, baseball, etc.) run separate organizations (i.e. minors associations) to administer their programs.

Feel free to correct me but do clubs in Ottawa or anywhere else in Ontario have clear jurisdictional boundaries of where they can draw their players from? I understand that certain clubs have strategically targeted certain areas; however, having taken a quick look through certain club pages websites, it seems all are welcome at every club? It appears we have a situation where clubs are competing for scarce resources and there isn't enough supply to meet the demand i.e. satisfy individual clubs desires to field a junior team.

Recommendation - I advocate for a complete separation of junior and men's club rugby. Rugby Ontario should stand up a task force with the goal of creating minor rugby associations with very clear geographic boundaries and population cachement areas. Every other sport does it because it's a proven method of doing business at the junior level in Canada.

Interesting concept in running minor Associations for rugby but the problem is none of your sports mentioned run Club systems after minor sports. There are no Adult run clubs in baseball,football,hockey and lacrosse, with these sports a young athlete moves from minor to junior and then to a beer team, not into a club system.

RivalBlue wrote:Canadian_Rugger, thank you for contributing to the game here in Ontario! I think you bring up some great points, however it seems it all comes down to geographical issues and where you are located. Ontario is just so huge and I think we all face travel issues at all levels. I do expect Rugby Ontario to address these issues in the coming years though. It would be interesting to hear what you would do to get your players noticed.

Also in other news, Ontario Blues just beat The Rock 29-17 in Peterborough. Quite a few players were missing for the Blues.

iul wrote:Maybe Canada Rugby could give each club a couple of "tickets" to send players to these regional tryouts on Canada Rugby's expense, instead of having to pass the cost to the players.

It would be up to the PSO, not Rugby Canada...so in this case Rugby Ontario. Fees are usually waived by the club as it is what my club did for me when I was a junior.

RivalBlue,

I've got tonnes of ideas with respect to junior rugby, some would require significant changes to the present system. I'll focus on a few key areas in my follow up to you.

1. The "Hub" concept - I personally feel the de-centralized model is a good idea in theory; however, where it fails is at the execution phase. The idea of having players who "want" (I didn't say should) mass in camps for four weekends in the middle of the Rugby season is a flawed development pathway because it directly competes with the already limited junior season. This is at an age group where players are still very raw and what they need is "game time" not "elite" camps. I've noted a number of kids who are attending "hubs" that can barely string a pass together at club practice yet they're paying top dollar to attend these camps when what they should be doing is getting more game time. Comparing it to Ice Hockey, it's the equivalent of having everyone attend a hockey school while also playing for their respective team. There is a reason hockey schools are in the summer when the normal season isn't running.

Recommendation - Keep the de-centralized talent identification model (Ontario West, East, Central); however, do away with the camps themselves and rely on scouting, coach tapes and recommendations for selection. The provincial team coaches are already identified so rather than holding practices for players, what they should be doing is observing players under actual game conditions. This would culminate in an invitation near the end of the season to play for the provincial team. Right now I've got kids missing half their games because they're attending "Hubs". I would get rid of the entire hub program right up until the July 31st Inter-hub series where a mini-tournament could be held for the scouts to identify the provincial team.

2. Elite Rugby - what exactly is it? From my observation, it seems a lot like it's if you've got enough money you can play Elite Rugby, if you don't too bad. We are missing a gigantic spread of players because of this. #3 player that I identified in my list above. I can almost guarantee you that if money were no object, he could walk in to the provincial U16 side and make the team, he is that good and has the right athletic attributes to make it in Rugby. This model works in Ice Hockey because we've got the numbers in Canada to make up the difference in that sport. It also still works because there is a professional game above that does its own talent identification. Rugby doesn't have the numbers and we don't have a professional game that does its own talent identification; therefore, the model is totally broken.

Recommendation - We need a complete revisit of how we ID talent. My biggest problem is the Rugby community lacks money because we don't have any shrewd business people involved in the sport. Talented athletes should not be limited by cash; therefore, we need to come up with a new funding model based on fundraising and sponsorship.

3. Club model at junior level - I think the club model causes some difficulties for junior sides for a number of reasons. A rugby club is as much a social club as it is a sports team; however, is this social club important at junior level?

I would say probably not which is why I would advocate for a separate approach in Junior Rugby. Rugby has to be one of the few team sports at the junior level that tries to run off a club model and it's an inefficient way to do business at this level for a number of reasons (administration, governance, competing interests, etc) which is why other sports (ice hockey, football, baseball, etc.) run separate organizations (i.e. minors associations) to administer their programs.

Feel free to correct me but do clubs in Ottawa or anywhere else in Ontario have clear jurisdictional boundaries of where they can draw their players from? I understand that certain clubs have strategically targeted certain areas; however, having taken a quick look through certain club pages websites, it seems all are welcome at every club? It appears we have a situation where clubs are competing for scarce resources and there isn't enough supply to meet the demand i.e. satisfy individual clubs desires to field a junior team.

Recommendation - I advocate for a complete separation of junior and men's club rugby. Rugby Ontario should stand up a task force with the goal of creating minor rugby associations with very clear geographic boundaries and population cachement areas. Every other sport does it because it's a proven method of doing business at the junior level in Canada.

Interesting concept in running minor Associations for rugby but the problem is none of your sports mentioned run Club systems after minor sports. There are no Adult run clubs in baseball,football,hockey and lacrosse, with these sports a young athlete moves from minor to junior and then to a beer team, not into a club system.

I'd hardly call the Allen Cup beer league hockey. Same with Senior Football (see the Alberta Football League).

RivalBlue wrote:Canadian_Rugger, thank you for contributing to the game here in Ontario! I think you bring up some great points, however it seems it all comes down to geographical issues and where you are located. Ontario is just so huge and I think we all face travel issues at all levels. I do expect Rugby Ontario to address these issues in the coming years though. It would be interesting to hear what you would do to get your players noticed.

Also in other news, Ontario Blues just beat The Rock 29-17 in Peterborough. Quite a few players were missing for the Blues.

iul wrote:Maybe Canada Rugby could give each club a couple of "tickets" to send players to these regional tryouts on Canada Rugby's expense, instead of having to pass the cost to the players.

It would be up to the PSO, not Rugby Canada...so in this case Rugby Ontario. Fees are usually waived by the club as it is what my club did for me when I was a junior.

RivalBlue,

I've got tonnes of ideas with respect to junior rugby, some would require significant changes to the present system. I'll focus on a few key areas in my follow up to you.

1. The "Hub" concept - I personally feel the de-centralized model is a good idea in theory; however, where it fails is at the execution phase. The idea of having players who "want" (I didn't say should) mass in camps for four weekends in the middle of the Rugby season is a flawed development pathway because it directly competes with the already limited junior season. This is at an age group where players are still very raw and what they need is "game time" not "elite" camps. I've noted a number of kids who are attending "hubs" that can barely string a pass together at club practice yet they're paying top dollar to attend these camps when what they should be doing is getting more game time. Comparing it to Ice Hockey, it's the equivalent of having everyone attend a hockey school while also playing for their respective team. There is a reason hockey schools are in the summer when the normal season isn't running.

Recommendation - Keep the de-centralized talent identification model (Ontario West, East, Central); however, do away with the camps themselves and rely on scouting, coach tapes and recommendations for selection. The provincial team coaches are already identified so rather than holding practices for players, what they should be doing is observing players under actual game conditions. This would culminate in an invitation near the end of the season to play for the provincial team. Right now I've got kids missing half their games because they're attending "Hubs". I would get rid of the entire hub program right up until the July 31st Inter-hub series where a mini-tournament could be held for the scouts to identify the provincial team.

2. Elite Rugby - what exactly is it? From my observation, it seems a lot like it's if you've got enough money you can play Elite Rugby, if you don't too bad. We are missing a gigantic spread of players because of this. #3 player that I identified in my list above. I can almost guarantee you that if money were no object, he could walk in to the provincial U16 side and make the team, he is that good and has the right athletic attributes to make it in Rugby. This model works in Ice Hockey because we've got the numbers in Canada to make up the difference in that sport. It also still works because there is a professional game above that does its own talent identification. Rugby doesn't have the numbers and we don't have a professional game that does its own talent identification; therefore, the model is totally broken.

Recommendation - We need a complete revisit of how we ID talent. My biggest problem is the Rugby community lacks money because we don't have any shrewd business people involved in the sport. Talented athletes should not be limited by cash; therefore, we need to come up with a new funding model based on fundraising and sponsorship.

3. Club model at junior level - I think the club model causes some difficulties for junior sides for a number of reasons. A rugby club is as much a social club as it is a sports team; however, is this social club important at junior level?

I would say probably not which is why I would advocate for a separate approach in Junior Rugby. Rugby has to be one of the few team sports at the junior level that tries to run off a club model and it's an inefficient way to do business at this level for a number of reasons (administration, governance, competing interests, etc) which is why other sports (ice hockey, football, baseball, etc.) run separate organizations (i.e. minors associations) to administer their programs.

Feel free to correct me but do clubs in Ottawa or anywhere else in Ontario have clear jurisdictional boundaries of where they can draw their players from? I understand that certain clubs have strategically targeted certain areas; however, having taken a quick look through certain club pages websites, it seems all are welcome at every club? It appears we have a situation where clubs are competing for scarce resources and there isn't enough supply to meet the demand i.e. satisfy individual clubs desires to field a junior team.

Recommendation - I advocate for a complete separation of junior and men's club rugby. Rugby Ontario should stand up a task force with the goal of creating minor rugby associations with very clear geographic boundaries and population cachement areas. Every other sport does it because it's a proven method of doing business at the junior level in Canada.

Interesting concept in running minor Associations for rugby but the problem is none of your sports mentioned run Club systems after minor sports. There are no Adult run clubs in baseball,football,hockey and lacrosse, with these sports a young athlete moves from minor to junior and then to a beer team, not into a club system.

I'd hardly call the Allen Cup beer league hockey. Same with Senior Football (see the Alberta Football League).

Senior Hockey is no different than Men's club rugby. I play in a Senior League right now, played for the same Senior team for the past four years, it's non-contact because most of us have good paying day jobs and don't feel like breaking ourselves. We drink beers after every game, it's competitive and there are some top notch players including a couple of former pros in the League.

There are different levels of commitment and intensity all the way to Allan Cup which is full contact AAA Senior Hockey. There is zero difference between this and a competitive Rugby Club playing in the CDI or Marshall League.

For the health of Junior Rugby we need a total separation of the junior level and club level because the clubs can't be trusted to properly administer the sport.

Interesting concept in running minor Associations for rugby but the problem is none of your sports mentioned run Club systems after minor sports. There are no Adult run clubs in baseball,football,hockey and lacrosse, with these sports a young athlete moves from minor to junior and then to a beer team, not into a club system.

Canadian_Rugger wrote:Senior Hockey is no different than Men's club rugby. I play in a Senior League right now, played for the same Senior team for the past four years, it's non-contact because most of us have good paying day jobs and don't feel like breaking ourselves. We drink beers after every game, it's competitive and there are some top notch players including a couple of former pros in the League.

There are different levels of commitment and intensity all the way to Allan Cup which is full contact AAA Senior Hockey. There is zero difference between this and a competitive Rugby Club playing in the CDI or Marshall League.

For the health of Junior Rugby we need a total separation of the junior level and club level because the clubs can't be trusted to properly administer the sport.

That was the pint I was trying to make, local unions can run "house" leagues at the local junior level. Adult or senior rugby being handled by clubs would be no different that in any other spot. I think you're really onto something there Canadian_Rugger. I'd even say that having a local union directly running junior rugby with teams like Edmonton Gold / Island Tide / Calgary Maverics becoming essentially the equivalent of rep hockey would make talent identification much easier. Plus all those junior dues can help fund those programs a bit better.

I'd hardly call the Allen Cup beer league hockey. Same with Senior Football (see the Alberta Football League).[/quote]

Senior Hockey is no different than Men's club rugby. I play in a Senior League right now, played for the same Senior team for the past four years, it's non-contact because most of us have good paying day jobs and don't feel like breaking ourselves. We drink beers after every game, it's competitive and there are some top notch players including a couple of former pros in the League.

There are different levels of commitment and intensity all the way to Allan Cup which is full contact AAA Senior Hockey. There is zero difference between this and a competitive Rugby Club playing in the CDI or Marshall League.

For the health of Junior Rugby we need a total separation of the junior level and club level because the clubs can't be trusted to properly administer the sport.[/quote]

The difference is you are a TEAM playing in a league not a CLUB running several teams in several leagues, plus trying to grow a minor system

It would make trying to run a men's club a lot easier if we didn't have to worry about the juniors. However, there tends to only be so many people who care about rugby, and that's barely enough a lot of places without splitting organizations.

Here`s the link. There`s a lot of "we're confident we'll qualify for the World Cup, we're confident we'll qualify for the Olympics" kind of stuff so far, but not a lot of answers or much in the way of a plan... We'll see if anything really gets said.

Edit 1: I didn't realise they got rid of pay-to-play for the women last year; That's good to hear.Edit 2: All of Canada's games at the WRWC will be televised on TSN.Edit 3: "How do we get more kids playing rugby?" Dixon (paraphrased): "Yeah, it's important, but we rely on the provinces for that." Stresses the importance of bringing kids up to higher level, but no suggestions on how.Edit 4: On sevens: A lot of fluff, but we have both our stops guaranteed until 2019.Edit 5: On the CRC: "the more games the better," but funding is an issue. "The CRC has been a really good servant of the (national team) program over the years."Edit 6: "What has changed since the townhalls in 2015?" More games for the men's program (15 or 16 games between CRC, Canada A, and Canada); More full time staff to work with the domestic players. Goal is to reduce the gap between domestics and overseas pros.Edit 7: Will we have our pros vs Uruguay? "We certainly hope so... Our goal is to have everyone." They're speaking with the clubs at the time, but mention that there are WR regulations to ensure they'll have them.Edit 8: In the middle of talking about getting more games on TSN, the stream cuts out...Edit 9: Got distracted for a bit, missed a few. There are apparently plans for a national training centre in Ontario. Although, now they're saying that it might not be a "bricks & mortar" location, so who knows...Edit 10: WR Funding: We lost nearly half a million dollars of funding this year due to fluctuating exchange rate! The question was about the breakdown of funding, but all they said was "some money goes here, some money goes there" with no suggestion of percentages or anything like that.Edit 11: Is there any chance of bringing back the Pacific Pride? Doesn't really sound like it; The goal of the Pride was to have a daily training environment, and they feel that's been accomplished by the training centre in Langford.Edit 12: After talking about the Toronto Wolfpack, mentions that we will hopefully have professional rugby union in Canada "in the next few years."Edit 13: Are there plans to play in Quebec, since it's the second-largest province? They talked about finding good venues, and then the stream cut out again, and now I've gotta get going, so you're on your own

I honestly think Elite Rugby in Canada operates in a void right now. We are a massive country and I don't think Rugby Canada has adequately taking that in to consideration. What the National Union has tried to do is follow the Australian Model of regional representative sides based around Provinces/Large geographic areas to foster a competitive environment; however, this system exists in isolation because Rugby doesn't have the commercial power or concentration of playing resources that Australia has.

Australia has 3x the number of Registered players we do with most of them concentrated in key geographic areas (Sidney, Brisbane, Canberra). This has allowed them to concentrate efforts in those areas. Rugby League is also widely popular in Australia and this is cross-pollination between those two groups of fans.

Our talent is spread more thinly and while we have the Lower-Mainland BC and GTA as our two hotbeds, the playing pool is way more shallow in those areas compared to NSW and Queensland. Also, Canadians, like our American friends to the South, don't really identify with our Provinces like the Aussies do so there is no incentive or will to build on the system we've created.

I'm more convinced than ever that Rugby Canada needs to take a page out of what other countries with similar issues are doing. Two key ones for me are Russia and Argentina. Both are very large countries with similar issues that we have (Russia being remarkably similar to us) but have chosen to foster a competitive club environment, whereby the strongest rise and the weak fall.

In essence, what we need to make club rugby more competitive, strong clubs that want to get better players, possibly through payments should be allowed to do so. There is no reason clubs like JBAA or Toronto Scottish shouldn't have the opportunity to become more competitive, possibly to the level of A Timisoara, Krasny Yar or Enisei-STM. Let the free market dictate who rises to the top, this isn't a professional sport but it should still be a competitive one.

Rugby Canada was on to something a few years ago with the National Invitational Club Championship but Killed the idea just as fast as it got started.

snapper37 wrote:What we need is more kids playing longer and the elites ones longer against their peer group. Canada needs a national U23 league set up and run just as the Junior Football league is.

There is nothing magical about playing against your peer group from a development standpoint. Frankly, talented youngsters have more to learn from playing with and against crafty older players than their peers. The only reason to keep elite younger players playing against their age group is if they are too frail physically for senior rugby. But very few of those players will end up physically developing into international caliber players.

Canadian_Rugger wrote:I honestly think Elite Rugby in Canada operates in a void right now. We are a massive country and I don't think Rugby Canada has adequately taking that in to consideration. What the National Union has tried to do is follow the Australian Model of regional representative sides based around Provinces/Large geographic areas to foster a competitive environment; however, this system exists in isolation because Rugby doesn't have the commercial power or concentration of playing resources that Australia has.

Australia has 3x the number of Registered players we do with most of them concentrated in key geographic areas (Sidney, Brisbane, Canberra). This has allowed them to concentrate efforts in those areas. Rugby League is also widely popular in Australia and this is cross-pollination between those two groups of fans.

Our talent is spread more thinly and while we have the Lower-Mainland BC and GTA as our two hotbeds, the playing pool is way more shallow in those areas compared to NSW and Queensland. Also, Canadians, like our American friends to the South, don't really identify with our Provinces like the Aussies do so there is no incentive or will to build on the system we've created.

I'm more convinced than ever that Rugby Canada needs to take a page out of what other countries with similar issues are doing. Two key ones for me are Russia and Argentina. Both are very large countries with similar issues that we have (Russia being remarkably similar to us) but have chosen to foster a competitive club environment, whereby the strongest rise and the weak fall.

In essence, what we need to make club rugby more competitive, strong clubs that want to get better players, possibly through payments should be allowed to do so. There is no reason clubs like JBAA or Toronto Scottish shouldn't have the opportunity to become more competitive, possibly to the level of A Timisoara, Krasny Yar or Enisei-STM. Let the free market dictate who rises to the top, this isn't a professional sport but it should still be a competitive one.

Rugby Canada was on to something a few years ago with the National Invitational Club Championship but Killed the idea just as fast as it got started.

It's the only option that makes sense given our geography and limited finances.