1. I said tiger is the heart of the system and it is true. The first form compiled by Hung Hei Goon (or Koon) consisted of the black tiger system he had learned in the temple from the Abbot Chi Sin Sim See. The Crane was added latter, by most accounts learned from his wife and is included in the second form. The Tiger and Crane are the two most used animals in the system still today, but No, I take nothing away from the other 3. (4 if we count the mantus latter added to the system.)

2. Tiger has many closed fist techniques, but we have to acknowledge that the use of the gloves (with no finger holes) restrict 90% of the grappling techniques from the tiger and all of the claws.

As for the LWS jab the Lam family has added as much to the system and been as respected custodians as the Wongs were, and, I might add is now in the third generation of gardianship of the Hung system so I fail to see why my respect of Lam Sai Wing would be anything strange?

Anyhow, off to work with me, and Rabbit, I did not intend to hijack your thread. We just done things differently and I intend to train just as I have in the past but have to get up off my lazy @$$ to do it, so, have a good day.

Originally Posted by hunggar_student

no essence of hung in what I watched on that vid.

Sorry for laughing, you are one of those kungfuers. I was too. You are completely and utterly wrong. There is more kung fu and hung in both videos than anything you used to practice hardcore and what I thought was hardcore.

Yet, I did gear up and bang. So, it is always good to know we got something right.

As far as Hung Ga's Shaolin roots....who really knows. The lineage definitely goes back far enough but I'm afraid so much history is lost and unverifiable. I personally don't mind any of the "stories" whether they be about Damo or Hung hei gun.

Even my own sifu's position is "who really knows..anyways punch at my head". But he teaches the origin of the lineage the way he was taught out of respect to the style.

It's ironic because of movies like 36th Chamber and Eight Diagram Pole Fighter, people who think they are watching Shaolin kung fu are actually watching Hung ga...which owes more to which?

Gordon Liu's hung ga has done more for Shaolin Kung fu in the last 30 years than the Temple itself, imho.

Okay stop. I love G-Liu, but you reeeeeaaaaallllllyyyyy need to learn his history. Eight Triagram has very little Hung. 36th Chamber is a mix.

Then why did you imply that the "mantus" was the 5th? Your reference to "the other three" clearly illustrates that you believe the "mantus" to be one of "the five".
With this in mind, i do not believe you are in a position to discern the "Hung-ness" of any school; much less one that actually fights.

Then why did you imply that the "mantus" was the 5th? Your reference to "the other three" clearly illustrates that you believe the "mantus" to be one of "the five".
With this in mind, i do not believe you are in a position to discern the "Hung-ness" of any school; much less one that actually fights.

But but but he has been practicing since the 80's.

I guess that is your right, Most of us who train traditional accept the lineage handed down by our Sifu's. If I cannot believe the masters before me I am only training to fight and not a traditional Martial Artist.

No, you are a modern Martial artists as all of the spiritual honor stuff came later.

Then why did you imply that the "mantus" was the 5th? Your reference to "the other three" clearly illustrates that you believe the "mantus" to be one of "the five".
With this in mind, i do not believe you are in a position to discern the "Hung-ness" of any school; much less one that actually fights.

This from my original post, complete with the pre coffee typo on mantis.

"The Tiger and Crane are the two most used animals in the system still today, but No, I take nothing away from the other 3. (4 if we count the mantus latter added to the system.)"

Tiger and Crane two, other three (Leopard, Snake, Dragon) being majors and the bong bou form being the mantis as some I have trained with count it as a major contribution to the system.

Huh, i'll admit i missed that Crane reference.
That said, the form you refer to is also called "Monkey Mantis" so are we now at 7?
I've never heard of that form being referred to as a "major contribution" either.
In fact we called all of those shorter forms, Sam Ying etc. "baby sets".
Just in scale, GGFFK is atround 4-5 times as long, as are the rest of the pillar sets.
So is it with the other actual major contributions to the BSK lineage, ie Sup Ji Kau Dah etc.