The Smart Fortwo has a 0.8 L cdi engine that gets around 70mpg (54 HP) and that's with the transmission inefficiencies.

The Smart ForTwo Diesel is pretty poor if you consider that while it may be fairly efficient, other, much larger cars can match this fuel efficiency whilst being more practical and substantially faster. 3.3l/100km is very good but not when you compare it to the BMW 320d Efficient Dynamics which might 'only' do 4.1l/100km but gets to 100km/h in 8 seconds as opposed to 16.8. It's over twice the car and suddenly the Smart ForTwo doesn't make so much sense. There are many other cars that come closer to the Smart ForTwo in absolute economy but manage it at a larger scale. All they've done in the Smart ForTwo is use a tiny engine which they can just about get away with hauling the thing along.

The Smart ForTwo Diesel is pretty poor if you consider that while it may be fairly efficient, other, much larger cars can match this fuel efficiency whilst being more practical and substantially faster. 3.3l/100km is very good but not when you compare it to the BMW 320d Efficient Dynamics which might 'only' do 4.1l/100km but gets to 100km/h in 8 seconds as opposed to 16.8.

Agreed, but the point was to use the small engine to power an alternator to partially recharge the battery, not to use the engine to move the car...And the BWM does not get 4.1L/100km when you're doing the 8 sec acceleration

Neil, any time you come close to Springfield MA, let me know, I'd love to see your project !

OT : I've been playing with how I drive my car I'm now getting around 2mpg better mileage now than I was getting before (almost 35mpg, 2010 elantra gls, 60% highway, 30% windy country roads, 10% town)

Agreed, but the point was to use the small engine to power an alternator to partially recharge the battery, not to use the engine to move the car...

You wouldn't want to use that engine for the purpose wihtout extensive modification. What you are talking about is a 'range extender hybrid' pretty much like the diesel electric drive used in some trains but with added batteries and regenerative braking perhaps also. The trouble is that the requirements for the generator engine are very different from an engine to drive the wheels directly, you don't need the engine to be responsive in the same way. It is possible to retune a diesel engine (and diesel is much better for the purpose) to suit but don't expect this to be something that any tuner will be able to do as that's totally unlike their normal customer bases requirements (more aggressive response, flimsy anecdotal evidence of better performance and fuel economy, more noise, warranties invalidated!). For this reason range extender hybrids tend to use different engines to their direct transmission counterparts. You'd be better off taking the engine from a small trailer mounted generator of the type you often see used on building sites.

frenchie wrote:

And the BWM does not get 4.1L/100km when you're doing the 8 sec acceleration

No, but it'll get better fuel efficiency doing 0-100kmh in 16.8 seconds than the Smart would. This touches on a test that Top Gear did a few years ago: A Prius vs an M3 on a lap with the M3 just keeping up with the Prius. No surprise from an engineering background which is more efficient in doing this, the car that isn't running at 100% all of the time!

You'd be better off taking the engine from a small trailer mounted generator of the type you often see used on building sites.

I hadn't thought of that... I wonder how those things would do with a proper muffler... The image I have in my head of those engines (from when I worked on construction site in the summer when I was still in school), is the noise and the smoke when ramping up.How about using a small household backup generator (can be diesel fuel or LP) ? It would have to be the most efficient for the power the car pulls when charging (the nissan leaf pulls 3.3Kw when charging using the on board charger). A quick search returns a 5kW generator, diesel fuel, consuming .076 gallons of diesel fuel per KWH at full load... interesting topic to poke at one of those days...

I hadn't thought of that... I wonder how those things would do with a proper muffler... The image I have in my head of those engines (from when I worked on construction site in the summer when I was still in school), is the noise and the smoke when ramping up.

How about using a small household backup generator (can be diesel fuel or LP) ? It would have to be the most efficient for the power the car pulls when charging (the nissan leaf pulls 3.3Kw when charging using the on board charger). A quick search returns a 5kW generator, diesel fuel, consuming .076 gallons of diesel fuel per KWH at full load... interesting topic to poke at one of those days...

An industrial one would probably be higher efficiency and you do need a higher power as you need it to charge over the 3 phase connection as opposed to normal mains just to get the power in quickly enough so that you can effectively use it whilst driving along.

Oliver mentioned in the presentation that the rear seat is just a placeholder; it is not the seat they will end up with. And, obviously the wheels are too wide. The rear suspension will take some puzzling out...

Please notice the name on the dash instruments. Is the battery underslung below the front wheel beam?

Organic Transit is now shipping the Elf to their Kickstarter investors, which is great! They ended up raising over $223,000 which is way over their target. Here are some new concept computer models of future Elf's, including a tandem 2 seat design:

So, about 30 miles of range, and it can be pedaled on the flats. It can charge itself in 7-8 hours sitting in the sunshine, and it doesn't require insurance or a license - and it only costs about $4,000. And you will get in shape and lose weight, too.

The Solar Team Eindhoven (STE) of Eindhoven University of Technology (TU/e) presented the world's first solar-powered family car. "Stella" is the first "energy-positive car" with room for four people, a trunk, intuitive steering and a range of 600 kilometers (373 miles). This is the car being entered by the student team in the Cruiser class of the World Solar Challenge that starts in Australia in October 2013.

"Stella" was created by a team of 22 students from the University of Eindhoven, The Netherlands. Stella is the first solar car with four seats with a range of 600 km (373 miles) per charge ! It combines an aerodynamic design with lightweight materials, such as carbon fiber and aluminum.

Stella will get the official certification for road use, becoming street legal and will be for sale in Europe.

It's a solar racer car that seats four. The battery pack is the "spine" between the seats, and the range of ~370 miles - without the sun shining, I presume?

So, it is not fully equivalent to a typical car and yes the doors and the roof are obviously deflecting. I would love to see a slightly taller version - it could take a nod in the direction of the Schlörwagen, or Sven7's Linner Strømlinet Vogn.

They will have the first drivetrain soon (within a few months?) and it will likely be installed in a P5 (prototype #5) unit. This orange car is a P4. The P5 will have ~1.5" more headroom in the back seat.

I sat in the backseat - it is lacking a bit of headroom (I'm 6'-4") and the seat cushion was very firm, and not angled enough to support my legs. I did fit, though. The front has more than enough legroom - I would *not* push the seat all the way back, or else I could not reach the pedals.

They have nearly 20,000 deposits now. Deposits can be $100, $250, $500, or $1,000 - and they can be refundable or non-refundable - your choice. If you choose non-refundable, they match 50% of it against your purchase price.

They will be doing a direct sales model - a lot like Tesla, with retail stores in malls, etc. Service will be handled through Pep Boys: Elio Motors: Ultra High Mileage Vehicle (click on Service and Maintenance)

The base model will be a 5-speed manual with a normally aspirated engine, stereo, A/C, 3 air bags, etc. and they are ~80% done with pricing the parts. They will likely make the target $6,800 price, or it may rise $100-150. Automatic transmission will cost more. There will be a turbo option.

One person mentioned the Cd was 0.24, and if they didn't count the under slung exhaust (or maybe they did include it?), then that is plausible. The main part of the chassis is very good, and only the suspension struts and driveshaft and the wheel fairings are less great. I'll guess the outboard front wheels are at least half the overall drag? They also mentioned the possibility of side video mirrors.

Oh, the right side window opens even though there is no door.

It looked lower and better in person. The wedge on the front above the grill looks less pronounced than I thought it would, and that is a good thing, in my book. The exhaust will exit much farther back. The rear suspension is very beefy looking - single sided swing arm is on the right side (see pictures).

There were at least 8 people there who had put down deposits. There was a lot of buzz and people were almost always positive. The only negative comments I heard was about the small storage space; if there is a second person in the rear seat.

Metro engine:

Rear suspension:

Inside:

The underslung exhaust:

They are looking to possibly deliver cars in about a year and a half. Another interesting tidbit is that at least one person working for Elio there have bought stock in the company. This is good to hear, as it may mean they will work all the harder to build and sell cars.

Such a nice sleek car - probably a bit cramped for my taste, personally (2-seater back/front). I saw something funny the other day, absolutely radical, and wanted to share;Solar Freaking RoadwaysNot my meaning to downgrade this post in any way with preposterous utoob links. I really thought the idea enterprising, but also very utopian because I doubt you that easy get enough electricity out of it, and maintenance issues would make it not usable many places without proper foundation. But maybe ecofriendly on a certain scale.

_________________Creativity is allowing yourself to make mistakes. Art is knowing which ones to keep.New Build | Old Build

Yes, the Elio is a bit too low - they are going to put 16" wheels on (in place of the 15" on the P4 I saw. Real world MPG of course will vary, but they will have optimized the engine and the gearing, and aero is pretty good (with the exposed front suspension bits being the majority, really) and the exposed exhaust. If we get a new law allowing video mirrors (that Tesla is aiming for!) then the Cd and frontal areas of all cars can be improved.

After several hours of work today, I got the wiper system almost into place.

The firewall has several holes in it that will need to be filled in from the inside. The base of the 'A' pillars need to be built up - both to cover the holes needs to clear the ends of the push rods, and to make the ends of the vent bezel flush. I put the nose and the hood into place and the hood will need some more work to get it to fit over the bezel.

The 'A' pillars are a lot straighter than they used to be but I still see some wobbles ...

A few, yes. I glued the nose on the chassis. I have retrieved the Saab 900 and I am looking for a Toyota MGR unit, which is the differential unit used on the Highlander Hybrid and the Lexus hybrid. It has a 50kW AC motor integrated with a reduction gear and a differential. They apparently can be had for between $300-600, which is a great price.

My spouse and I share it, and we have put almost 4500 miles in the first three months we have had it. It is a great daily driver for us, and it is a lot of fun to drive - very smooth, quick and quiet. No driving experience is as quiet as a modern EV.

We are averaging ~117MPGe, which is even better when you consider that it is winter, and running the defroster or the heat takes a lot of extra energy. Here's my energy log:

We can use the heated seats (all 5 are heated) and the steering wheel is also heated. The outside mirrors are heated, and the rear defroster is direct heating, like all cars. None of those is all that energy intensive. What we need in all EV's is a direct heating windshield defroster, and we would have hardly any penalty for cold weather driving. A few EV's have this now, but our Leaf has a resistance heater that heats some water, and that warms air that a fan blows over it - it uses I think 2kW or maybe 3 or 4, which is a big hit - it can knock 20-30 miles off the overall range, if you run it constantly.

Efficiency is the strength of an EV, and that means there is virtually no "spare" heat, so we need the engineers to switch over to better methods. The two kinds of direct heating defrosters are to put very fine wires in the glass, or to put a molecule thick layer of gold on the glass, and these heat the glass directly for maybe 100W or so. And it is quicker, too.

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