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I am considering asking for a nice watch for my 50th birthday present. Does anyone have any opinions as to what the best watch to buy for around $5,000 would be? I am leaning towards a Rolex but would like to consider other brands.

Petrocelli wrote:I am considering asking for a nice watch for my 50th birthday present. Does anyone have any opinions as to what the best watch to buy for around $5,000 would be? I am leaning towards a Rolex but would like to consider other brands.

Thanks.

this may help. i love this story. the shopping is almost as fun as the purchase. check out the forum area of the site too.

I like Breitling. Really nice watch without what some consider the snob cachet of Rolex. Neat alternative (which I don't have yet but have been considering): Junghans ceramic atomic solar--light as a feather, never wrong, never needs winding (just like my plastic Casio from sale rack at TJMaxx). [That's solar powered, not atomic powered---though that would really be cool]

Petrocelli wrote:I am considering asking for a nice watch for my 50th birthday present. Does anyone have any opinions as to what the best watch to buy for around $5,000 would be? I am leaning towards a Rolex but would like to consider other brands.

Thanks.

Sorry, Petro, I cannot help you. I wear a $30 Timex. Mr. Bogle told me his watch (a gift) cost less than that.

"You've got a Rolex watch? How nice. But how many "complications" does it have? You know: Does it show the phases of the moon, high tide, elapsed time, date, seconds, Martian and Venusian time? Is it self-winding, all with gears and springs (no batteries allowed), and does it still lie on your wrist thinner than a postage stamp? "The luxury watch business is phenomenal, with same-store sales up 10% a year for the past ten years," says Anthony J. D'Ambrosio, executive vice president for New York-based Tourneau, a collection of watch stores that bills itself as the world's largest. The average age of buyers has dropped in the past five years from the late 40s to the mid-30s. Why are expensive watches so popular? D'Ambrosio won't attribute it just to flush investment bankers, though he notes that the Wall Street bonus season is good for business. He goes on at some length about people appreciating craftsmanship, etc. But the real purpose of an expensive watch is to let other people know how rich you are. "You can't take a van Gogh to the boardroom and show it off," D'Ambrosio points out. "The car you drive won't help you when you're before the co-op board trying to buy an apartment." A good watch can even help you get a seat in a sold-out restaurant. (You mean, a maitre d' notices what watch you wear? asks an astonished Timex wearer. "Oh, they get it," D'Ambrosio assures. "The good ones in the European restaurants do.")" - "Spoils of a Pig Market" - Fortune Magazine - September 7, 1998

Petro, I honestly don't understand why you're concerned about "the best" as opposed to going to a jeweler and looking for ones you like. I rather assume most $5,000 Swiss-made watches are more than good enough. I also assume that all of them need regular cleaning and service, and that the functional advantages of a $5,000 watch vis-a-vis a $25-to-$250 modern quartz electronic watch are subtle at best, so surely it's all about the design, style, look and feel? And none of them are going to be as accurate as those rather cheap-and-cheesy-looking "atomic" watches that pick up the NIST's WWV transmitter.

I'm in a rather different price range, but when the $100 Seiko that my wife gave me twenty years ago that I just plain like bit the dust, I was astonished at the wide range of styles and choices in Seikos. There would have been no point in saying "buy me a Seiko." There were some I loved and some I hated. In my world, it's more important to me that the watch have Roman numerals then whether it's a Seiko or a Citizen.

If you don't want to dictate the watch you want but want someone to pick one out and surprise you, why not just say "I want a really nice watch" and hint at the price range... or suggest a nice local jeweler that carries watches in that price range?

What is it that you want in a watch? Some quality of "bestness" that is not design, style, look, timekeeping accuracy?

P. S. Nobody's mentioned Patek Philippe... all I know about it is that was the kind of watch David was partial to in David and Lisa, if anyone remembers that film... in the scene where he upbraids his psychiatrist for having a cheap watch. I don't know nothin' about that brand. If someone wanted to wow me with the gift of a watch, well, gosh, I'm a nerd, I always wanted to own a Bulova Accutron. I wonder if there are any to be had in the antiques market that still work?

P. P. S. Just Googled on Patek Philippe. Never mind. Do people really pay that much for a watch?

i bought myself a nice watch of comparable price a few years ago. i paid cash. i justified it because i would wear and enjoy it every day and keep it for the rest of my life. amortized over my life, the cost was insignificant.

it was also a reward for hitting certain financial goals. also, whether we like it or not, in business, many people initially judge you by your appearance - and having a nice watch - just like a nice suit - can help - and can pay for itself. people like to do business with people they perceive are successful. also, i don't wear any other "jewelry" so this was my one big splurge in that department. i think you have to "pick your shots" in life and be "selectively extravagant and prudently frugal". some people like $5,000 golf clubs. i like a nice watch. to each his own.

p.s. petro - i'm not telling you what kind of watch i have because i don't want you wearing my watch.

p.p.s. ironically, i bought my watch in 2000 and the current 2008 price translates to a 2.18% annualized rate of return which i think beats the S&P 500!

"You've got a [insert personal hobby/interest here]? How nice. But how many "complications" does it have? You know: Does it have lots of chrome, pin stripes, made of titanium, need constant maintenance, signed by some celebrity who was paid an ungodly sum of money to act like they use the product? Is it intricate, all with high tech materials and completely over engineered for the task? Does it just impress the people who ride in whatever particular clique you happen to belong to?

"The [insert personal hobby/interest] business is phenomenal, with same-store sales up 10% a year for the past ten years," says John Q. Salesman, executive vice president for selling stuff to people that others make fun of even though they too have their own wasteful hobbies and interests. The average age of buyers has dropped in the past five years from the late 40s to the mid-30s. Why are expensive hobbies and interests so popular? John Q. Salesman won't attribute it just to flush people who work for a living and like to spend their own money on things they like, though he notes that people doing what they want responsibly with money they earned for themselves is good for business.

But the real purpose of an expensive hobby is to let other people know how rich you are. "You can't take a van Gogh to the Yachtclub or climbing mountains and show it off," D'Ambrosio points out. "The car you drive won't help you when you're before the co-op board trying to buy new baseball cards, golf clubs, hunting gear, bicycles, home theater gear, computer hardware, collector coins, motorcycles, fishing equipment, or anything else you feel like spending money on that other people think is a waste." A good widget can even help you get a seat in a sold-out tournament that others think is a total waste of time attending but you like it so who cares what they think.

----

P.S. I like mechanical watches. Something about a tiny well-made machine ticking away on my wrist I really enjoy. FWIW, I like Omega watches. They are reliable and nice looking. Vintage and used ones can be had for very good prices. New ones can range from reasonable (for a high-end watch) to "skies the limit" in prices.

Useless trivia: Omegas are the only watches that survived testing by NASA to be used in spaceflight and are the only watch ever worn on the surface of the moon:

I baught a Hamilton automatic watch as a gift for my brother. Hamilton's are made in America for a longtime and recently a Swiss company baught it. They are not as expensive as the highend Rolex watches. For 1000 dollars you can get an excellent quality watch. You can check their website.

Forbes magazine occasionally reviews best watches and you can search for best watches on the Forbes site. Goodluck and happy birthday.

Oh your right. Well for less than 5g's Petro's gifters could probably get a real nice watch with his picture on the face, little diamonds on the hours, and the hands extending right from his nose.

OK, seriously, are there ANY watches available that have REAL sun and moon phases built in. I've NEVER seen one; only with a kind of facsimile that didn't actually work. If there was such a watch, I might even think about it!

tetractys wrote:OK, seriously, are there ANY watches available that have REAL sun and moon phases built in. I've NEVER seen one; only with a kind of facsimile that didn't actually work. If there was such a watch, I might even think about it!

HBD, Tet

I have a 1948 automatic watch with moon phase built in. It works just fine and looks very similar to the watch in the far left of this picture:

1) An antique pocket watch. Not something you wear everyday, but it is different than what everyone else uses. Illinois and Hamilton made excellent pocket watches that are commonly available even today and reasonably priced.

2) A vintage watch. Many of the old style watches are very nice looking and also different than what you'll see people wearing. They can be a nice change from modern watches that tend to have huge watch faces.

Last edited by craigr on Sun Nov 16, 2008 3:28 am, edited 1 time in total.

get a fake, use rest to buy individual high risk side money stock kinda thing. it is a bargain right now.. then when dow goes back to 12000, u can sell that and get another fake for another $25 which will be as good as the real ones

Captain Koons: The way your dad looked at it, this watch was your birthright. He'd be damned if any **** gonna put their greasy **** hands on his boy's birthright, so he hid it. [crass remarks removed] Then, after seven years, I was sent home to my family. And now, little man, I give the watch to you.

In 1980 my dad was a sailboat charter captain and divemaster in the Virgin Islands. He bought a Rolex Sea Dweller for around $600 I think. In 1990 he died much too soon, without much in the way of assets, a drawback to being sailboat captain I guess, but as his only son I got the watch. I was 22.

I've worn it most of the time since then. It never needs winding or a battery, but it cost me more to have it serviced a few years ago that many of you have spent on a lifetime of watches. I'm really glad you started this thread Petro. I googled my watch and didn't realize I was wearing an $18,700 piece of machinery on my arm:

Of course, I don't need to dive to 610 m and modern dive computers work better anyway for recreational diving. I only wear a cheap digital watch when I surf - too easy to break the band. I do get the occasional inquiry about my Rolex from watch aficianados, and it is kind of fun to tell the story, like now. But I could hardly care less whether I impress people with it. I don't run in those circles anyway. It's stainless, and would probably need to be gold with diamonds to impress the high rollers. To each his own.

I wore it with pride at my wedding earlier this year. That watch and my wife's engagement ring are about the only material objects in this world that I give a damn about.

Butch: You know what my father went through to git me that watch?... I don't wanna get into it right now... but he went through a lot. Now all this other s***, you coulda set on fire, but I specifically reminded you not to forget my father's watch.

Agreed, but I don't know what the distribution of incomes is like on this board, and if you make Rolex posts in what is mostly a Citizen, Timex, and "what for? I have a cell phone" crowd, you should expect some reaction.

Tangentially, whenever I see someone taking out their cell phone to see what time it is I am amused by the resemblance to an old-fashioned pocket watch.

Come to think of it, apart from the retro chic of fountain pens and such, cell phones are the new wristwatches. How many complications does your iPhone have? Or is that applications?

These people cannot be millionaires! They don't look like millionaires, they don't dress like millionaires, they don't eat like millionaires, they don't act like millionaires -- they don't even have millionaire names. Where are the millionaires who look like millionaires?

The person who said this was a vice president of a trust department. He made these comments following a focus group interview and dinner that we hosted for ten first-generation millionaires. His view of millionaires is shared by most people who are not wealthy. They think millionaires own expensive clothes, watches, and other status artifacts. We have found this is not the case.

As a matter of fact, our trust officer friend spends significantly more for his suits than the typical American millionaire. He also wears a $5,000 watch. We know from our surveys that the majority of millionaires never spent even one-tenth of $5,000 for a watch. Our friend also drives a current-model imported luxury car. Most millionaires are not driving this year's model. Only a minority drive a foreign motor vehicle. An even smaller minority drive foreign luxury cars. Our trust officer leases, while only a minority of millionaires ever lease their motor vehicles.

But ask the typical American adult this question: Who looks more like a millionaire? Would it be our friend, the trust officer, or one of the people who participated in our interview? We would wager that most people by a wide margin would pick the trust officer. But looks can be deceiving.

This concept is perhaps best expressed by those wise and wealthy Texans who refer to our trust officer's type as

Big Hat No Cattle

We first heard this expression from a thirty-five-year-old Texan. He owned a very successful business that rebuilt large diesel engines. But he drove a ten-year-old car and wore jeans and a buckskin shirt. He lived in a modest house in a lower-middle-class area. His neighbors were postal clerks, firemen, and mechanics.

After he substantiated his financial success with actual numbers, this Texan told us:

[My] business does not look pretty. I don't play the part...don't act it....When my British partners first met me, they thought I was one of our truck drivers....They looked all over my office, looked at everyone but me. Then the senior guy of the group said, "Oh, we forgot we were in Texas!" I don't own big hats, but I have a lot of cattle.

nisiprius wrote:Petro, I honestly don't understand why you're concerned about "the best" as opposed to going to a jeweler and looking for ones you like. I rather assume most $5,000 Swiss-made watches are more than good enough. I also assume that all of them need regular cleaning and service, and that the functional advantages of a $5,000 watch vis-a-vis a $25-to-$250 modern quartz electronic watch are subtle at best, so surely it's all about the design, style, look and feel? And none of them are going to be as accurate as those rather cheap-and-cheesy-looking "atomic" watches that pick up the NIST's WWV transmitter....

P. P. S. Just Googled on Patek Philippe. Never mind. Do people really pay that much for a watch?

Your point is a good one. There are so many brands out there, that I just wanted an idea as to what to look for. I have Googled some of the brands mentioned on this thread and have gotten some ideas.

I really like the looks of the Hamilton watches, and can get one for about $300. I may pick one up.

I started thinking about this subject yesterday because of a large pull-out, poster-size ad in the WSJ yesterday for Vacheron Constantin watches. I looked them up on the web, and they make some really beautiful pieces. I called a store to inquire about the cost, and learned that the watch I liked cost $30,000. In fact, they have some watches that sell in the millions of dollars! (As an aside, I was able to resists shouting out "You are friggin' kiddin' me!" when told the price of the watch.)

diasurfer wrote:Captain Koons: The way your dad looked at it, this watch was your birthright. He'd be damned if any **** gonna put their greasy **** hands on his boy's birthright, so he hid it. [crass remarks removed] I was sent home to my family. And now, little man, I give the watch to you.

I agree with you and Jack on many things, but disagree with you here. Here's why:

An expensive watch is an asset. It may not appreciate like a stock but, by the same token, you can't wear a stock certificate on your wrist.

20 years ago, I bought my wife a Rolex for her 30th birthday for $2,000. That watch new now sells for $8,800. I don;t know what we can sell it for, and it doesn't matter. When my wife passes, my daughter will get the watch.

My wife inherited a male's Wittanauer Revue that was bought in the 1940's, which I now have. I don't know what it sold for then, but it is now worth $300.

If I get an expensive watch, I will get to wear it, and then give it to my son when I die. Honestly, I think that watch will mean more to him than a few hundred shares of TSM will. He can then hand it down through the family. Moreover, they way the market has behaved over the past 10 years, the watch may appreciate more than the stock.

I had received an inheritance, and I had gifted our daughters some cash.

I wanted their husbands to have something they probably wouldn't buy for themselves, and giving cash to them might have made them feel awkward, fearing I'd be judging them on what they purchased, or did with the money.

A fine watch came to mind, so that's what I bought them.

They now have something to pass on, or to pawn if they find themselves in need of a few $$$.

By all rights, it was an extravagant gesture on my part to show them how much I cared for them. But, I had as much delight on Christmas morning as they did. They are both fine young men.

I have a certain goal that will trigger a purchase of a Rolex for myself, I'll reach it one day.

Or maybe one of my sons-in-law will strike it rich, and buy me one.
Sam I Am

tetractys wrote:OK, seriously, are there ANY watches available that have REAL sun and moon phases built in. I've NEVER seen one; only with a kind of facsimile that didn't actually work. If there was such a watch, I might even think about it!

I picked up a Tissot Ballade (actually two, since I bought one in the same style - but ladies for my wife) while in St. Moritz on vacation years ago. While I considered a Rolex, I could not justify the price to myself.

To me a watch is a timepiece. A Rolex is a peice of jewelry (that tells time). Nothing wrong with buying a peice of jewelry, but I guess I'm too cheap

Today, since I carry a cell phone, and no longer work (and as others have stated, with "clocks" on your computer, car, etc.) I don't wear a watch. As for jewelry? The only thing I wear is a plain gold wedding ring.

BTW, I was given a "goldtone" Hamilton last year from the company I retired from (after 30 years). Still in the box ...

- Ron

Last edited by Ron on Sun Nov 16, 2008 10:02 am, edited 1 time in total.

Petrocelli wrote:I really like the looks of the Hamilton watches, and can get one for about $300. I may pick one up.

Also, like all nice stuff, the impression you get in the jeweler's store when you have it in your hands can be very different from the impression you got from a computer screen or printed catalog page.

Some watches have integral watchbands in a matching style and you want to know how the band feels on your wrist. A watch is, after all, something you are wearing next to your skin.

One problem I've never quite solved is how to have a backup watch to use between the time when you notice your watch has stopped and the hours, days, or weeks until you can get around to having it repaired or having the battery replaced. I have a spare watch in a drawer, but of course all the cheap watches use batteries, so unless you make a fetish of replacing the battery in the spare watch, the chances are only about even that the spare watch is working.

In reality, of course, between the clocks on the walls of my house and the screen on the computer and the cell phone and the clock in the car and the clock in my iPod etc. it's fairly hard to be out of sight of a functioning timekeeper. And the times you are, e.g. on a camping trip, are the times you don't really need one.

......give it to my son when I die. Honestly, I think that watch will mean more to him than a few hundred shares of TSM will.

Case closed, no way to argue with that.

The year I was born my father bought a new 1956 Martin guitar that was a months pay that he could no way afford. Same thought, he'd teach me to play and pass it on to me. Nothing in this world makes me feel the way I do when I hold that guitar.

P.S. Still think the cuckoo wristwatch is catchy, just watch them boys eyes pop at the club when that baby goes off at the top of their backswing.

Last edited by SteveB3005 on Sun Nov 16, 2008 10:14 am, edited 1 time in total.

Petriocelli - the idea of a watch as a timepiece you hold for the next generation has been carefully nurtured by Patek Phillippe.

A close friend collects watches (EXPENSIVE watches) - some well into in 6 figures. When he buys it is usually at auction. I asked about buying a good watch.

Buy what you like. As an investment, you start out with in some cases, up to 100% increase from w/sale to retail. Add in 6-8% sales tax and it will take quite some time before you can recover your investment.

The enjoyment you derive is something else, and that is intangible. Good luck, I prefer Breitling or Choppard, both of which are beyond what I am willing to spend.

Instead I bought a antique Hamilton and a more recent Movado. I also received from my father and grandfather some antique watches. I am uninterested in what they are worth, because they are engraved and I would never sell.

musbane wrote:Hi, Nisiprius. I THINK that if you pull the stem out of an electric watch as though you were going to reset it, the watch stops and the battery will not run down.

I do not know if that works, its called a "hackable watch" where two watches can be set at the EXACT same time/right down to the second. nispirius you might like http://www.seikocitizen.com or google seikocitizentradingforums might take you there.OP= Petro, I buy myself my birthday crap too. In 78 I bought a seiko "arnie-558" as its known today. I was "lucky" selling it for about what I paid 25yrs later because it became a collectable, A seiko! I'd suggest you probabally think you might get 8800 for it but ask for the cash ( I know its your wives) and take her on a trip with the 8800 if you can get it. inexpensive watches like Taylor/JackB/ and I have are simply simple. They tell the time.You dont get robbed because you wear a timex! Watches have gone the way of the horse in travel IMO. I am entitled to a opinion right?

I have a watch owned by my grandfather and great grandfather, so I would like to do the same in buying a quality watch at reasonable price. My investigation is that the best watches are from Europe and my personal favorite is a Patek.

You have 2 routes to buy fine watches, being used and new. If you go new which I think is better, you have the option to go through an Authoriized Dealer or resellers. The problem with the resellers is that they are not able to offer the original warranty, but they have a good price but reputation is unknown. With the Dollar getting stronger I think prices will get better, so I will go with an Authorized Dealer.

While I have not purchased yet, I have found it very valuable to establish communication with an Authorized Dealer, and in many instances they will special order the watch once a price is set and will mail it to you insured postage. With this approach, you make down deposit and the dealer takes no risk as it is sold upon arrival. You get a factory new watch and not shop worn. Patek makes a limited number of watches, so many dealers do not have a large inventory.

A Rolex look like a great watch, and it is time tested. However, many in the business believe they are essentially commoditized selling so many into mass market. With a Patek, you will lose value for a period of time but ultimately the value of the watch will be what you paid for it. Bigfoot

taxman wrote:I'd suggest you probabally think you might get 8800 for it but ask for the cash ( I know its your wives) and take her on a trip with the 8800 if you can get it.

I am not that good a negotiator to get that watch from my wife and sell it. Nor would I want to. Moreover, we are going to Italy this summer for two weeks, and to the Ojai Valley In for three days after Christmas, so my wife gets the watch and the trips.

For the record, I don't spend money frivolously, and am a pretty good saver. By the same token, I don't think buying an heirloom for your family is a bad idea if you can afford it. Do you?

I appreciate that many Bogleheads are compulsive savers. I am not. Life's too short.