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The Clippers just keep getting blown out. It's not just that they lose almost every game, it's that they are not even competitive in any game. The Clippers have absolutely no passing and no ball movement. Brand and Kaman will not solve that. Thomas was killing them tonight, just killing them. Mobley too. Mobley is a total black hole.

I wouldn't pay Livingston anywhere near 5 million. Especially when he was paid for a whole year without playing. He should be willing to take a lot less to make up for the fact that he was getting paid to watch all year. I suspect he will.

Some other team might be willing to gamble on him though. The good thing about the Clippers for Livingston is that he'll get playing time. That is, unless the Clippers get Rose or sign Arenas. And it's his right to make as much money as he can. The Clippers are a business, he doesn't owe them anything. Who knows how long he can play in the NBA.

And the Clippers just looked terrible last night. Dickau and Smush were trying so hard to impress Phil, wanting to be the 3rd string pt guard on the Lakers for next year.

To me, the Livingston pick is already one of the top 3 blunders in Clipper history - he was a horrible pick. Who in their right mind wastes a #4 pick (#2 really when you want to get technical) on a freakin' tooth pick who's clearly nowhere near physically ready to handle the rigors of the NBA?! Totally absurd!

I hope we're not about to pour more money into that black hole because we're hoping against hope that Shaun will turn into 25% of Chris Paul some day. Let someone else pay him 6 million bucks. If Livingston had any shame he would come back to the Clippers for the league minimum to make up for the last 3 years of virtually nothing.

Can you believe Mike Dumblevy only playing a 7 person rotation when the game really mattered? Tim Thomas sucked big time! I can’t believe he didn’t give Nick Fazekas more minutes…he couldn’t have been worse than Tim Thomas. The offense (if that is what you want to call it) ran so much smoother with Dan Dickau at the point. Where was Brevin Knight? I know Smush has more talent than both of them but he is a veteran point guard and he just doesn’t bring it when it comes to defense and decision making. Like a said before we need Arenas, Monte Ellis, or Sasha V.. Yes that right I said Sasha. He is going to be a free agent soon and I know the Lakers can not pay him his market value since they have so much salary tied into Gasol, Kobe, Odom, and soon Bynum. Sasha is not a max player but he is definitely better than the MLE. Sasha is the X factor for the Lakers in the playoffs this year and his value is going to sky rocket this post season.

These games are getting pointless to watch. I know some of you guys are rooting for the lottery ping-pong balls, and that maybe well and good, but at this point, I could give a damn one way or another. The Draft is such a gamble...there no guarantees.

It was pathetic to watch and then have to listen to laker fans. Even more pathetic was the number of Clipper season ticket holders who sold their tickets to Laker fans. That includes the ticket holder who writes the blog you all comment on.

Chris it is a good thing you are not a NBA scout. Monte Ellis is only 22 years old and averages 20ppg 5rpg and 4asst. and almost 2 steals. He does this while sharing the spotlight with ball hogs like Baron Davis, Stephen Jackson, and Al Harrington. Also he does not have a big man on his team to collapse the defenses away from him. If he is not worth a max contract offer then how much do you think he would command. This guy would be a 10 year all-star if he was in the east.

The fundamental problem that I see is that the Clippers have no players that can create for others as well as themselves. Not a single one. Let's not even talk about the guards. They are all college level. Among the forwards who can get their own shot, i.e., Maggette and Thornton and Thomas, they have no instincts to create for others. Once it goes to them it is going to be a lot of dribbling and a shot. Mobley is an even worse offender. In defense of Maggette and Thornton, the Clips as presently constituted don't have a lot of guys that are worth dishing to.

Passing is contagious. Look at the Lakers. Their second unit is really a bunch of scrubs but they are full of confidence and pass the ball really well for scrubs.

I agree with you, Mike, with the Lakers' passing game. They look like the '70s Knicks teams, where besides defense, passing was the greatest aspect of their teams. Of course, the one common thread is there is Phil Jackson. I wish the Clippers could learn this...but again, you actually need point guards, let alone those who can create for others.

..and BTW, the reason there are so many Laker fans at Clipper home games is very few people are actually clipper fans. Half the season ticket holders are simply fans of the NBA, and it's NBA entertainment at half the cost of Laker games. I know this may be a shock to some of the 17 of you that post here, but it's a fact.

With the Clips management as horrible as it is year after year, it's not all that hard to imagine why this is still the case. Nobody, except Cubs fans, likes to root for a perrenial loser.

tw, that's a big part of it for me. I'm a Clips fan and will be pulling for them no matter how awful shit is.
However, I'm about to get season's and the main reason is I just love the game and rolling to games with my nephews to see most all of the teams they play. I've got a nephew in college in the valley and he and his boys will use up 1/2 of them gladly just to see anyone except maybe the grizz and twolves, etc... It's a decent value if you love the game.

Tim Thomas' deal does not expire after next season. He was signed for 4 yrs / 24 mio. so he is only half way through his contract with us now. I would LOVE to somehow get rid of this bum along with old man Mobley who is also signed for another 2 years for twice as much as he's actually worth.

I'm a season ticket holder and you can bet your ass I sold most of my tickets this year. I even admitted it to my ticket rep. How many shitty games, in which the team doesn't even try, should I be expected to attend? Once they let Cassell go, I had no qualms about selling my tickets. They were acknowledging the season was finished and so did my wallet.

I've been to many Clipper home games against the Lakers and they are always a miserable experience. The Clippers play like shit, the Laker fans chant "Ko-be"... Not fun. So there was no fucking way I was going to attend this past Thursday.

I happily sold my two tickets (which I pay $25 each for) on the Clipper's website for $190, and I'll apply that towards next season. If that upsets you, kiss my ass.

Now negotiate a lower contract with Shaun, say $2m for one year and he's a restricted free agent at the end of it. I still believe he'll develop into a great point guard. The only reason he was injury-prone before is because he HADN'T HIT FUCKING PUBERTY! Point guards with his size and vision are priceless. Remember how good he was becoming right before he got hurt? Cassell would have been benched for 80% of every game if SL's knee hadn't popped.

I stand corrected, Stian. Well even at 6M per year, T2 is still stealing money. You'd think if you had the skill set of T2, and someone is willing to pay you 6M per year to be T2, you'd at least give a solid effort every night. Nobody loafs it as much as T2 does, just another brilliant signing by MD.

When you combine his salary with Mobley's, and look at their combined production, that's not exactly what I would call $$ well spent.

tw, yep, Tim Thomas is stealing money at 6 mio a year. He'd be stealing money if he made 1/3rd of that. I never understand this signing - we essentially outbid ourselves for his services because the Suns made it clear they weren't gonna pay him anywhere what he was looking for even though he basically saved the Lakers series with that 3-ptr. But when Radmanovic jumped ship to the Lakers, Dunleavy panicked and decided to throw the bank at Thomas. Stupid move!!!

Mobley is close to worthless now but we pretty much knew that deal would come back to bite us down the line. Of course, the Mobley signing was supposed to send a signal that the Clippers were finally serious about winning and he was the biggest UFA signing for the Clippers at the time. We had to overpay for him to get him, unfortunately.

We could sure use the 15 million we're paying Thomas and Mobley - we could bring in 2 NBDL scrubs at minimum wage and not see much of a dropoff and spend the other 13 million on an impact player.

I love these clowns that come here and demand Shaun play for the league minimum. It's a business. He didn't get hurt while he was drunk at his house, he got hurt while playing (and playing well) FOR the team. He got hurt at work. I doubt if one of these same clowns got hurt at work they would say, "You know what, go ahead and forget about my 50g's a year, just pay me minimum wage for the next year since I missed so much time." Just seems like misguided anger. How about being mad at Tim Thomas for only playing hard when a contract is on the line? You could never accuse Shaun of not playing hard.

All that aside though, I would like to see us give Livingston a chance to bounce back. He showed a ton of promise and potential and I think he's worth the 5 mil risk or whatever it may be to see if he can regain his old form. His chemistry with Kaman was always excellent, and considering Kaman might be our best player left pretty soon here I think it's worth a shot.

DJ, while I want to agree with you, I doubt you'd pay that worker $50k (or 5m) without getting the chance to figure out if they are even capable of giving you the performance they were once capable of.

I think it's very likely the Clippers will sign him to a deal far lower than $5m and I bet his agent will be happy to take a fraction of that amount to keep Shaun playing in the NBA.

Who's the clown? I wonder if that 50K a year worker who injured himself on the job would even get his 50K while on SDI? How about the guy making 100K? Would he get the full amount if he couldn't work? The guy making 500K? Does SDI go there? How about 5 million like Shawn gets? What other field of endeavor would pay an injured worker his full salary? The point is that Shawn was paid an incredible amount of money while not playing as a result of his guaranteed contract. Yes, it is a business and he is entitled to a fair amount. But, even in business there is something called loyalty and moral obligation (at least there was at one time) and in Livingston's case he has been compensated very richly will giving very little in return, albeit through no fault of his own. So, I do argue that a certain amount of moral obligation applies in this case and that combined with the fact that it is very unclear whether Livingston will ever be able to compete argues for a much reduced contract this year. After he proves himself the sky is the limit for him salary wise. That's real business.

Moral obligation? To who? Donald Sterling? The NBA and the owners of NBA teams use their players to become extremely wealthy men, why shouldn't the players always try and do the same? There is nothing wrong with Shaun and his agent trying to get as much money they can. Why shouldn't he? So he can save Sterling a few bucks? Shaun provides a service, he should get paid as much as he can for that service.

I agree with both of you that the Clips should negotiate and try and get a much reduced salary, and they probably will. I just don't want to see Shaun rebound somewhere else without us at least giving him a shot here.

But Shaun should try and get the most money he can for him and his family. And the Clippers should try and sign the most logical deal for the team. That's business.

They may have insurance, but yeah, I think he has a moral obligation to Sterling to take a much lower amount and not try to stick him for the full amount with the threat of him walking away. That's just me though.

Sometimes I wonder if people lose perspective when they discuss NBA players. The guy is already set for life and has made millions. I think he can take care of his family on a cool 2 million a year, especially since his family is comprised of him alone. Could you take care of your family on 2 million DJ? This is starting to sound like the Latrell Sprewel situation. I got's to feed my family man.

Mike, you make some good points about losing perspective when it comes to NBA players. It's hard to imagine having that much money. None of us really know how we would react to making 2 million a year until it happened. But that is all beside my point.

My point is Shaun needs to look out for himself, because we know that Sterling and all the big wigs are doing the exact same. It's a business- everyone else is looking out for #1 so Shaun needs to do the same. If it were beneficial for management to cut Shaun, or trade Shaun, or sit Shaun on the bench or send him to the NBDL they'd do it in a heartbeat. And I don't have a problem with that at all. So why shouldn't Shaun try and do the most beneficial thing for himself?

We're way off track though. I just want to see Shaun make a comeback in a Clippers uniform. Shaun's agent and the Clips will negotiate and meet somewhere in the middle and all parties will hopefully benefit.

I've rethought that and you are right DJ. It's really the uncertainty that Shawn will ever be able to get back to close to where he was. My sense is that no one really knows right now and that creates a huge problem for all concerned. A very difficult situation at best. The guy is a twig to begin with and now he's a twig with totally reconstructed knees. The Clippers are going to need to see something from him, gather some data so to speak and take a calculated risk at an appropriate risk weighted dollar amount. That's what it is going to come down to.

I guess there is no need to feel an sense of obligation because that is the deal they signed with guaranteed money. The NBA players have a really good deal.

I definitely agree with that, NBA players have the sweetest deal there is: They get to make millions for playing ball. It doesn't get much better than that.

I'm just glad they didn't try to rush Livingston back. I'm sure he won't have the lift or the lateral movement he once had, but he'll still have that great court vision and passing ability. It's going to be hard not cringe any time he does something. He just looks like he could snap in half at any moment. Let's hope he recovers and contributes, because I don't know if I can handle Smush Parker running the offense for another year.

04/15/08 04:23:26

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