LOS ANGELES, California (AP) -- They surprised the police, and maybe themselves, their T-shirts turning block after block of downtown Los Angeles streets white in a demonstration so massive that few causes in recent U.S. history have matched it.

Police said more than 500,000 people marched Saturday to protest a proposed federal crackdown on illegal immigration.

Wearing white as a sign of peace, and waving flags from the U.S., Mexico, Guatemala and other countries, they came to show that illegal immigrants already are part of the American fabric, and want the chance to be legal, law-abiding citizens.

Police used helicopters to come up with the crowd estimate. "I've been on the force 38 years and I've never seen a rally this big," said Cmdr. Louis Gray Jr., incident commander for the rally.

In Denver, Colorado, more than 50,000 people protested downtown Saturday, according to police who had expected only a few thousand. Phoenix was similarly surprised Friday when an estimated 20,000 people gathered for one of the biggest demonstrations in city history, and more than 10,000 marched in Milwaukee on Thursday.

The demonstrators oppose legislation passed by the U.S. House that would make it a felony to be in the U.S. illegally. It also would impose new penalties on employers who hire illegal immigrants, require churches to check the legal status of parishioners before helping them and erect fences along one-third of the U.S.-Mexican border....

The Senate was to begin debating immigration proposals Tuesday.

President Bush is pushing for a guest worker program that could provide temporary legal status for some of the estimated 12 million undocumented immigrants in the United States, but many of his fellow Republicans are taking a more restrictive stance.

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I love that last paragraph. Keep it up, GOP. Are we ready for the November elections yet?

President Bush is pushing for a guest worker program that could provide temporary legal status for some of the estimated 12 million undocumented immigrants in the United States, but many of his fellow Republicans are taking a more restrictive stance.

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He needs to listen to those Republicans. I'm all for HR 4437 and no guest worker program.

Wow- this is tough. I have known many illegal immigrants myself. But I still think it's in our best interests to enforce our immigration laws. I DEFINITELY think the church thing goes way to far though. I mean, come on- you should be able to go to a church regardless and feel safe. Churches should not be involved with, or subject to the government.

I'm torn on the issue itself, but would have gone to the protest myself had I learned of it before it was over. There is a right way and a wrong way to go about dealing with this, and this is the wrong way. I can't help thinking of all of those who rail against illegal immigration, but have no problem when their gardeners and maids are immigrants, who they have no problem taking advantage of. Of course, some of those that rant against these types of laws are guilty of the same things, so we should just invade Mexico and declare it the 51st state and get it over with. Boom, we cut the immigration "problem" to almost nothing.

Anybody find it funny that Canada is starting to do this type of thing to us?

Huh? Of course most people obey the laws. If they don't, they deserve to be caught and punished.

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Your jails are bursting at the seams already(9% of the population) and are you seriously telling me that you don't speed etc.Also the US economy would collapse overnight if tax evasion by large business was clamped down on.

Your jails are bursting at the seams already(9% of the population) and are you seriously telling me that you don't speed etc.Also the US economy would collapse overnight if tax evasion by large business was clamped down on.

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If I'm caught speeding, I deserve a ticket just as someone who breaks the law by being an illegal here in the United States deserves a punishment.

The amount of people in the jails and tax evasion by large business has nothing to do with this.

So we should go soft on people who break the law just because it might affect businesses?

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No, but we don't hit flies with sledge hammers either. Have you read the particulars of the proposed law they are protesting? It doesn't really do anything to fix the problem itself, would be incredibly difficult to enforce without a lot more funding, not to mention costing more money than it's supposed to save, and the church thing is way out of line. There are already laws to crack down on illegal immigration. There are ways to deal with the failings of that system. This is not it.

If I'm caught speeding, I deserve a ticket just as someone who breaks the law by being an illegal here in the United States deserves a punishment.

The amount of people in the jails and tax evasion by large business has nothing to do with this.

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Tax evasion is against US law(thats evasion not avoidance).At the risk of some ******** trying to evoke Godwins law,the people of Europe would have been a lot better off if the German middle classes told Hitler to piss off.

If I'm caught speeding, I deserve a ticket just as someone who breaks the law by being an illegal here in the United States deserves a punishment.

The amount of people in the jails and tax evasion by large business has nothing to do with this.

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But you also aren't charged with a felony and thrown in an overcrowded jail for a couple of years for speeding. And the amount of people in jails and effect on businesses should be taken into consideration. They are realities that will have to be dealt with. You don't just start making laws to supplement existing laws that aren't working without considering the repercussions. It's fine to enforce laws, or create new laws, but like I said, we don't hit flies with sledgehammers. Especially if it's going to make a big hole in the wall.

No, but we don't hit flies with sledge hammers either. Have you read the particulars of the proposed law they are protesting? It doesn't really do anything to fix the problem itself, would be incredibly difficult to enforce without a lot more funding, not to mention costing more money than it's supposed to save, and the church thing is way out of line. There are already laws to crack down on illegal immigration. There are ways to deal with the failings of that system. This is not it.

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The current laws aren't working and a solution or a way to a solution has been proposed. From civil to criminal, punishing those who help the illegals, a bit more pressure on the cops, difficult doesn't mean impossible and is sure to be better than it is. I think it will work. That's my opinion on it. My other opinion is it probably won't pass with Bush wanting veto it if his little clause doesn't get included about migrant workers and Clinton willing to filibuster.

Illegals are a burden and one I'd be happy to pay a bit of money more in the way of taxes to get rid of.

No they aren't, but I don't think this is going to fix anything. Seems more like a lot of posturing from people looking for a cause. Not that Bush's idea is that great, but it's a moot issue anyway. It won't pass and nothing will get fixed, and border security will continue to be underfunded while even legal immigrants are taken advantage of. I just don't see how locking people in jails as felons is going to do any good, and I think you're simplifying the ramifications, which would be worse than you think.

Illegals are a burden and one I'd be happy to pay a bit of money more in the way of taxes to get rid of.

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There have been a lot of studies done and there seems to be no clear indication that illegals cost exorbitant amounts of money. What's interesting in this argument is that as far as you and most others are concerned, illegals come from Africa, Latin and South America and Asia. There's a huge illegal European population here as well, their departure could devastate certain parts of the economy.

Where I live in California's central valley, many farmers are getting rid of their field crops and planting orchards instead simply because there aren't enough workers to harvest crops. Many illegals are turning to higher paid jobs in construction, maintenance, etc. It will devastate the economies of California, Texas, Arizona, Florida, etc if 12 million illegal resdients are returned home. The loss of tax income alone will be devastating and the massive rise in food prices will mean many people will go without fresh food.

What's needed is a guestworker program pure and simple. Without one, watch the economy plummet.

Where I live, the orchards are being replaced by field crops -- mainly because citrus is being grown much more inexpensively in South America, and can now be imported.

Anyhow, I always take amusement in conservatives arguing that tougher immigrations laws more strictly enforced can somehow be made to suspend the powerful forces of economic gravity at work. The folks on the Right are always going to have tremendous difficulty with this issue. Their positions are internally in conflict, and probably irreconcilable.

The current laws aren't working and a solution or a way to a solution has been proposed...Illegals are a burden and one I'd be happy to pay a bit of money more in the way of taxes to get rid of.

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Immigrants are not a burden. It's quite the opposite; they're helping our economy stay afloat and we need more of them if we want to hold onto what's left of the manufacturing base in this country.

I say open the process up wider. Since Bush clamped down after the terrorist attacks it's become harder to get into this country legally. The process is prohibitively long, tedious and complex.

We need to take the immigration process and blow it open. Maybe not fully open as we saw in the Ellis Island days, but we need to make it much quicker and easier for an immigrant to come here and stay here legally. Such a process would also help spread needed labour to northern states and perhaps stop the flow of industry offshore.

A Mexican immigrant will do a low paying job in America. A Chinese worker will do it for less  in China.

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