Tuesday, February 22, 2005

Interview with Kathleen Sullivan (Part One)

Let the slave grinding at the mill run out into the field....William Blake, "America: A Prophecy"

This is the first part of my interview with Kathleen Sullivan, a recovering survivor of trauma-induced mind control. (For a background to this subject, consult earlier posts such as America's Condition Greene.) Kathleen is the author of Unshackled: A Survivor's Story of Mind Control, published by Dandelion Books, which can be ordered from BookSurge. She is founder and president of the North American Freedom Foundation (NAFF), a victim and survivor advocacy group. Much more of her story can be read on her website.

Kathleen Sullivan at 16, and today:

The late Jim Keith, in his book Mass Control: Engineering Human Consciousness, wrote of Kathleen: "one cannot help but wonder if what she says is a particularly twisted brand of science fiction. But the ease with which the woman answers questions put to her, and her sense of sincerity is compelling. Finally, one fears that she is telling the truth."

I know the feeling. Maybe you will, too.

A frequent charge of those who doubt survivors' stories is that your recovered memories have been somehow contaminated. What steps have you taken to ensure your memories are authentic? Could you provide an example of a recovered memory that might appear contaminated, but has been validated?

I am very fortunate, in that when I entered – for the first time - a psychiatric unit designed to help clients suffering from severe dissociative disorders (Multiple Personality Disorder, now known as Dissociative Identity Disorder), one of the technicians warned me to avoid reading books written by other survivors. This occurred in the summer of 1990. He stated that he’d watched too many survivors mentally absorb details from such books, thereby muddling their own memories and making them increasingly unsure of whether their remembered experiences had actually occurred. He said that he didn’t want the same thing to happen to me.

I recognized the wisdom in what he was saying and chose to follow his advice. After that, if I absolutely had to look for information in books (usually reference materials) to find verifications about certain parts of memories, I would start by quickly scanning the index, then find the specific pages that appeared to contain the information I was seeking. Then, I would literally cover the other sections of the pages or even bend back any other pages, to avoid seeing what was on them. I was quite fanatical about protecting myself from memory contamination. I knew that if I could not trust the legitimacy of my memories, I would not be able to therapeutically accept my blocked-out experiences, integrate them into my life narrative memory, and accept my fuller self.

For this same reason, I have – whenever possible - avoided discussing my memories with other survivors. I have also avoided reading the recollections, on the Internet, of any survivor who appears to have had a similar history. Even though reading their materials could help verify some of my recollections, the cost of contamination or confusion is simply too great. I have also avoided any movies or videos that could, in any way, relate to what I have been remembering.

Concerning sharing over the Internet: what most people probably do not know is that when survivors post stories and information in Internet support groups, the survivors are required to notify the other survivors receiving the postings that certain materials in the postings may cause problems for the readers. To alert the recipients, the writers often type the word “spoilered” and then leave enough blank lines between that word and the more intense section, so that the reader won’t accidentally view materials that may not be beneficial. This seems to work fairly well. Of course, some survivors choose not to worry about whether or not their memories might become contaminated, and will read everything. That is their choice.

In the earlier part of my recovery, many flashes and pieces of memory emerged that I believed must have come from my imagination, or perhaps from old movies. This belief came from my need to protect myself from emerging awarenesses that were still too upsetting. I mentally put such memories “on the shelf” and did not make a judgment about them one way or the other. Since I began my recovery in 1989, I’ve been amazed at how many of those “shelved” memories have been verified – in any number of practical ways.

I can also give you an example of an opposite problem that I experienced in the mid 1990s. I met an outspoken government mind control survivor, Cathy O'Brien, whose common-law husband advised me to read some materials that Cathy had written about her experiences. I only read one of those articles, in which she had written about a bizarre, very specific sexual act that she had allegedly performed for a certain politician. Although I had independently been remembering that same politician, I still had blank spots in my memory concerning him. Because of this, I inadvertently adopted some of the details of Cathy's story and ended up with a garbled memory about an encounter with the politician that never felt real. Unfortunately the details of her story were so mixed up with an emerging memory of the politician that I still am unable to separate them back out. I call this a “memory scramble." Like scrambling two eggs together, it is nearly impossible, once the amnesic gap is filled with external information, to "unscramble" the pure memory from the gap filler.

You speak of a number of groups in a network of mind control abuse. Some elements of government agencies (CIA, NSA, NASA), and some not (organized crime, an occult/aryan network, the "Octopus"). Could you tell us something about the structure of that network: how you saw the groups relating to one another, and what hierarchy, if any, you observed?

As a human slave, I was not privy to information concerning the network's structure, other than what I was told and what I observed. Anything that the perpetrators told me could have been designed to confuse and misinform me.

Most people know that the CIA, NSA, and other U.S. federal intelligence agencies are not self-contained. Their budgets must be approved by on a regular basis. Some of the agencies, and some of their representatives, also report to Congresspersons, special committees, and even the President on a regular basis. It is not uncommon for a person in one agency to transfer to another agency or committee or department. Some of these agencies and intelligence departments and committees are almost incestuous. As most of you know, President Bush Sr. was a CIA director years before he became vice president, then president. This means that our current president is the son of a former CIA director – a fact that, oddly enough, is rarely mentioned in the media. The media also fails to mention that our current president’s grandfather, Prescott Bush, reportedly had business interactions with Hitler, as did J.F.K.’s father. This is a family connection that may have affected some politicians’ decisions about whether or not to keep the Aryan network’s existence quiet.

One must also consider that, while working shoulder-to-shoulder with Nazi war criminals who were willing to share information gained from their prior human experiments in concentration camps, some of our government employees and contractors may have become close friends with the Nazi immigrants. After all, these men (and women?) were human. They were not monsters. Some of them might have even been quite likeable!

It is my understanding that NASA was, at least in the past, part of the overall network because NASA was initially formed by members of the same groups of Nazi war criminals who were brought to the U.S. by our government from the 1940s, on. This includes, of course, Werner Von Braun. Linda Hunt’s Operation Paperclip [Secret Agenda] can give you more information about this. My personal belief, based on information I have received from several private investigators, is that the CIA and other intelligence agencies have worked hand-in-hand with NASA, and some of its employees and departments, to further mind-control experimentation. Although some of NASA’s programs are certainly legitimate, including space exploration, I believe that NASA is involved in much more than that, and that NASA has been used to hide certain activities within its own organizational borders. I believe this has been a shell game, in that - when the CIA was investigated – certain records and activities were simply moved to a cooperative sister agency, which enabled CIA spokespersons to speak truthfully when they claimed that the MKULTRA type experiments had been discontinued! As one spook, who confirmed my theory, would often say: same old same old.

It is also fairly common knowledge, although the CIA will continue to vociferously deny it, that the CIA has been involved in drug smuggling activities for decades, including via their Air America operations during the Vietnam War, to bring in additional money for their black budget type activities. I was a witness to massive street drug manufacturing and distributions, and was occasionally forced to smuggle illegal drugs and deliver verbal messages to participants in these illegal activities. Does this mean that the CIA, across the board, is guilty of involvement in drug smuggling and more? Of course not. Again, there are probably individuals, and groups of individuals, within the Company and other agencies who are involved in such activities, while fellow employees are completely unaware that such illegal activities continue.

How does organized crime fit in to the network? Alex Constantine has written a number of informative books that connect the dots between such organizations. My basic understanding is that individuals and small groups from certain government agencies regularly cooperate with, and do business with, organized crime families and networks. This is purely business. It’s about money, period. Huge amounts of money.

Some government employees – especially spooks and spook wannabes - are sociopaths with criminal agendas. Such employees will use whatever is at their disposal to get whatever they want in life. It’s really as simple as that. Life gets even easier for these criminals when they are able to use their agencies’ resources to entrap, and then either blackmail or coerce certain politicians, including those on Congressional oversight committees, to vote and act in their favor. I was forced to participate in some blackmail activities with D.C. level politicians. I know who they are. And from what I know about them, some of them are very unhappy about being unable to do what is honorable and right. They have to go along with the perpetrators, because if the truth were told about what they had done in the past, their careers and reputations would be permanently destroyed. I feel sorry for them, and consider them to also be victims.

Now for the Aryan network. I’m fairly convinced that it has strong connections with several U.S. intelligence agencies for the following reasons: 1) many Aryan cell (local) groups were formed by Nazi immigrants who were secretly smuggled into the US by the OSS/CIA, U.S. Army, and so on; 2) personal and business relationships developed between some of the immigrants and a number of US government employees and contractors, some of whom continue to wield considerable political power; 3) our government’s credibility would be severely damaged if the world were to be presented with sufficient proof that government employees not only allowed but assisted Nazi war criminals in torturing, raping, terrorizing, and even medically murdering American and Canadian children as part of secretive CIA experiments; 4) I know for a fact that some of our most influential movers and shakers are covert Aryans; 5) every one of the Aryan cell groups that I spent time with in the past had actively participated in underground/black-marketing activities, including Commercial Sexual Exploitation of Children (CSEC), child trafficking, adult slave trafficking, drug and illegal weapons trafficking, and more; 7) every one of the Aryan cell groups that I spent time with also was actively involved in breeding babies to be used for human experimentation and slavery, and was also actively involved in using MKULTRA and other CIA mind control techniques to shatter the psyches of the child victims. (I believe this was done to prepare such children to be used by our government, in the future, to perform secretive, illegal activities that could not be traced back to the CIA, NSA, etc.)

The criminal occult ritual abuse connection is no coincidence; neither are ongoing attempts to cover-up its existence. Again, such crimes against children and adults are usually, although not always, committed by groups that operate in secret, in environments that keep "outsiders" from discovering their criminal activities.

Criminal occult ritual abuse is an extreme form of trauma. It is very effective when used to shatter a young victim’s psyche and create Dissociative Identity Disorder in that child’s mind. I know of no quicker, or more effective, way to severely dissociate a child victim. Unfortunately, most of the Nazi immigrants I met as a child were fervent devotees of a religion that Hitler also seemed to strongly adhere to. This religion, which I consider Luciferian, involved the literal worship of the sun and the accompanying belief that one could literally be reenergized by the sun’s rays and thereby become a god.

Unfortunately, their religious practices included those from ancient Egypt, freemasonry, the Kabala, and sometimes practices promoted by Great Britain’s Aleister Crowley. Those practices are especially bestial and dangerous – especially for children. Some of the Nazis believed that they could also be reenergized by ingesting the blood of tortured and/or dying babies, and by sexual interactions with children, animals, and more. I don’t need to go into details about how such “religious” activities could severely traumatize child survivors, thereby making them excellent candidates for mind control experiments!

I would like to bring attention to one more connection: in the 1990s, a new non-profit organization, the False Memory Syndrome Foundation, was instrumental in discrediting the recovered memories of survivors of sexual and criminal occult ritual abuse. I do not believe it is a coincidence that the FMSF was initially created by Dr. Martin Orne, Pamela and Peter Freyd, and several other individuals who either had been directly involved in the CIA’s MKULTRA subprogram or were directly related to individuals who had been. (You can find information about some of the connections between members of the FMSF and MKULTRA research on my web page [here].) Ironically, quite a few MKULTRA survivors have independently remembered, and identified, some of these same individuals as perpetrators who had harmed us when we were MKULTRA child subjects.

I’m interested in your assessment of disinformation regarding the subject of mind control. How widespread have you found it, and what are some of its distinguishing characteristics? How can those of us outside the survivor community guard against it?

I have found such disinformation to be fairly widespread in literature and Internet articles about mind control. This is, in part, because gullible writers will cite disinformation agents.

Before I go further, I must mention that nearly all of the disinfo agents have been independently identified by at least several recovering mind-control survivors as actual mind-control perpetrators who did harm to those survivors in the past – either as mental programmers, or as handlers. One of the identified perpetrators has acknowledged having been a CIA employee in the past, and has also admitted to still being connected to the CIA.

Some of the common signs I’ve found in materials written by disinfo agents are:

1. The agents usually lure one or two outspoken, fairly credible mind-control survivors by wooing them and/or promising to protect the survivors. Some of the agents have actually influenced the survivors to allow the agents into their homes, sex lives, and bank accounts. These agents have then gained illegitimate credibility by encouraging their new protégés to co-write with the agents and appear with the agents at conferences on mind control.

2. The agents promote disinfo-laden conspiracy theories through themselves and their protégés. For instance, a current joint conspiracy among recognized disinfo agents is to frighten people into believing that: the high-level perpetrators (world-ranking politicians, etc.) are really shape-shifting aliens in human bodies who have already, in secret, created a New World Order that is in the process of changing all of us into mentally controlled slaves. (It is not difficult for identified disinfo agents, who are masters in mental manipulation and hypnosis, to “convince” the highly suggestible protégés that they saw high-ranking politicians morph into lizard aliens and back again.) By buying into this disinfo, we are likely to either become irrational, or to melt into puddles of helplessness and fear. I believe that as long as they focus our attention onto subjects like this that are likely to push our panic buttons, they will render us nearly, if not totally ineffective in learning the truth and using it effectively.

3. By feeding other bits and pieces of false information to the protégé survivors, they use the survivors to promote even more disinformation. Hearing such disinfo from both the agents and their protégés causes us to be more likely to believe that the disinfo must therefore be legitimate. My biggest concern about this, is that the protégés are not only adding an undeserved sheen of credibility to the disinfo agents and their lies, but the protégés are also being used to influence the public to believe that ALL mind-control survivors must believe the same lies. Beyond that, any individual who is educated or smart enough to recognize the disinfo as such, may therefore not trust information provided by those of us who are presenting legitimate information.

4. Another interesting factor is that most of the more outspoken disinfo agents present together at conferences that either pander to “conspiracy theorists” and/or to the sector that is pro-Aryan and/or “Patriot.” Not all people in the Patriot movement are pro-Aryan. However, I have learned that most of the mind-control disinfo agents are, privately if not publicly, avowed racists. This would seem to be a rather odd connection, if one did not know that many Aryan organizations and cell groups use “trauma-based mind control” on their members, to ensure their submission and compliance.

5. Some of the disinfo agents have indicated, publicly, that they are “against” other disinfo agents while still working with them behind the scenes.

6. Some disinfo agents will claim that they were harmed or worse, by “bad guys,” to shut them up, but cannot provide any real proofs of such occurrences.

7. When disinfo agents are being outed by legitimate survivors and concerned investigators and journalists, the agents will usually accuse the survivors of being “disturbed” or misled, and/or will accuse both the survivors and other concerned parties of working for the CIA, NWO, etc. to silence them.

8. Most disinfo agents have a strange aura of “charisma” and can easily suck people in, mentally and emotionally. Further, they can influence gullible individuals to believe their information without providing sufficient proofs that the information is legitimate. This is perhaps the most important sign that one should look for, internally, when in the presence of a disinfo agent. If one feels a need to relax for just a little while and check his/her brains at the door, one is probably already coming under the influence of the agent’s hypnotic skills.

9. Not all disinfo agents are public speakers. Some keep a lower profile. The more outspoken agents will, on occasion, quote the less-outspoken agents’ lies to add further credibility to their own materials and presentations.

Have you had any contact, either as an alter or as a survivor, with perpetrators or victims of the "Franklin Cover-Up"?

I need to mention several things, before I answer this set of questions. First, I still have a lot of memory gaps and may never remember everywhere I’ve been, and everyone I’ve met. Second, a lot of the people who I met used aliases. Third, there are people mentioned in the book who it is not in my best interest to name; therefore, I will share information without giving their names. Fourth, there are some persons mentioned in the book who I will never name as individuals from my past. Unfortunately, after they die, they are often sainted. It’s a no-win situation for me to name them, alive or dead. Fifth, I did not live in Nebraska. I lived in Pennsylvania, then Maryland, then metro Atlanta, Georgia, with a 3-year stint in Chicago. Therefore, I probably never had a reason to meet the Nebraska locals. Finally, I need to mention that I will not go into further details beyond what I share below. Now for my answers:

1. One of my black op handlers was a PsyOps expert/lawsuit-happy “Satanist”/flaming pedophile mentioned in the book. That person later participated in revictimizing and terrorizing me during a group assault in 1997, after I had gone public during an interview as part of the CKLN radio series on mind control.

2. Although I have no memory of ever going to Boys Town, my maternal grandfather, who claimed to be OSS/CIA and was instrumental in involving me as a child in MKULTRA and beyond, took his annual “vacations” at Boys Town and often sent donations to them. I always thought it was strange that he went there for vacation; and I especially thought it strange that he sent them money, given that he was a very stingy and selfish man. Knowing what I know now, it makes sense - he was a pedophile.

3. A certain former, very high-ranking politician who also was connected in the past to the CIA was one of my primary “owners.” I performed a number of illegal activities for him, including assassinations. I also unfortunately couriered children, by air, to D.C. so that he could have at them. The children were instructed to call me “Aunt.” That politician was also a flaming pedophile and probably still is. It is definitely not in my best interest to publicly name him during this current political climate. Although he now keeps a lower profile, I still consider him to be an extremely dangerous.

4. I met and had some dealings with two former CIA Directors mentioned in the book. One Director was total pond scum. An especially secretive pedophile, he personally “gave” me as a “butterfly” for #3’s “collection” when I was an older teenager (this was probably an allusion to the code name for their mind-control slavery operation, “Project Monarch”) The other Director was refreshingly honest and I sincerely admired him. Although he knew what was going on, but never seemed happy about it. Unfortunately, he was later terminated.

5. The CIA goes without saying. Read my book for more information.

6. I was introduced to another very high-ranking politician who was mentioned in the book, albeit not as a perpetrator. The person who presented my free services to that man, who had just entered office, was a very corrupt, former high-ranking politician. The potential recipient had the moral rectitude to reject my services as a free assassin, but appeared to be compromised later by another sent-in slave whose training was more to his tastes.

7. My father, who was my primary mental programmer and tormentor, was big into the teachings and practices of Aleister Crowley. Dad incorporated them into his extremely gory, murderous occult rituals – particularly in the 60’s.

8. The George Town Club sounds VERY familiar – I was used at least one time in a similar building in the D.C. area that was used for the purposes mentioned in the book, to compromise and blackmail D.C. politicians. (Although my primary training was in black ops, I also had alter-states that were trained and used – from childhood on - to “sexually service” both males and females.)

9. I was exposed to a “NSC staff member” mentioned in the book. I knew him as a dangerous, totally sociopathic covert operative who definitely had no concern for human life and enjoyed raping female slaves in brutal ways. For that reason, I am amused by his altered public persona as a moral right-wing hero and political commentator.

You mention you heard George HW Bush referred to as the "webmeister." Can you tell me what you think that might mean? Did you hear his name in other contexts?

First of all, one of CIA insiders’ code-names for the Agency was “The Web.” Other Directors may have also been dubbed “webmeister,” but I only remember Bush Sr. being called it by CIA employees who were in the loop. There seemed to be several reasons why he was given the name:

1. The inclusion of the word “meister” (as opposed to “master”) alluded to his father’s business connections to Hitler, and the Director’s own alleged Aryan leanings.

2. I was told that Bush Sr. was unusually adept at using the Agency’s resources – the “threads” and “links” of the web – to further his personal goals. This included his making connections with many influential people, and utilizing information, that he would not have otherwise had access to. (My suspicion is that he has continued to hone this particular skill since he left the CIA.) He seemed to be especially respected for this skill because he did it quietly and without fanfare, which continues to be one of his trademarks.

3. They also called him the “webmeister” because he was the head of the “Web.”

4. Individuals who were skilled in hypnotic mind control and mental programming were given the honorary title of “master.” For this reason, he was considered a “master” on more than one level.

A point of resistance to accepting the validity of survivors' stories is that the crimes are simply too horrific to comprehend. Many will say, "Why would the government do such things to children?" How would you respond to that?

Having been tortured and much more for decades by numerous sadistic individuals who have worked for and/or have been contracted by certain U.S. government agencies, I have had to work very hard not paint our entire federal government with a broad black brush. In reality, certain individuals, and groups of individuals, had specific personal agendas that other employees were unaware of. I have remembered that some of the people who participated in what was done to me and other children as part of MKULTRA experiments exhibited facial and body expressions that indicated that they were very uncomfortable about what was being done to us.

A factor that must be considered, is that most of the more secretive, more highly illegal experiments were perpetrated in secretive locations and environments that "outsiders" would not have been aware of. I believe that in any group, there may be individuals who have more of a penchant for harming fellow humans. If you were to put a group in a closed, inaccessible environment and then remove commonly accepted rules of morality and legal constraints, I believe that some of the individuals in the group not only will willingly harm innocents targeted by the group, but will also encourage other members of the group to relax their own morals standards and do likewise. This problem would be much greater, of course, if the group has explicit permission from government officials to break the law.

If you will think about what happened at Abu Ghraib - the secrecy; the implicit (if not explicit) permission to ignore legal constraints; participants and persons in charge who enjoyed harming others; and more - you can see how this can happen. The outside world will understandably be horrified by the survivors’ stories. This is because, by and large, we are generally unaware of such atrocities and are therefore not desensitized enough to accept such survivors’ stories at face value. It’s a part of life that is extremely ugly and unpleasant. Of course we do not want to believe that fellow humans are capable of, and willing to do, such horrific things to other humans!

Let’s go one step further. Why would perpetrators do to children, what was done to us? I think that the reasons would vary from one perpetrator to the next.

Perhaps the most common reason is that at least some of the perpetrators were unconsciously reenacting abuse that they had endured in their own childhoods. An abused child usually has no power. That child may decide, either consciously or unconsciously, that some day when he/she is big enough, he/she will be the one in charge. It’s easy for such a person to take the next step as he or she becomes larger, and pour out his/her childhood rage on the next generation of vulnerable children.

Some of the adults who were involved in the experiments, and who did not seem upset by what was done to us, may not have been victimized as children. Instead, they may have stayed in a scientific, cerebral mode. Some seemed so “into” logic and abstract thought that they may not have been capable of empathizing with other humans. My father was an electrical, chemical and mechanical engineer. I noticed that he, and some of his fellow engineers that he worked with at Western Electric, seemed to have that same emotional disconnection.

In an odd way, I consider myself fortunate that I was repeatedly exposed, as a child, to researchers who were absolutely brilliant. Although I suffered from their inability to recognize, and feel, the effects of what they did to me, their genius and creativity powerfully challenged my mind and helped it develop much more than it otherwise may have. This continues to be to my benefit, although I also choose to work hard on developing empathy towards others.

1000 Comments:

I commend you Jeff for going in this new direction of blogging for you --- putting your interviews up here for us. thank you. I hope it also translates into a monetary reward for you, you deserve it.

As to the interview itself. Sullivan is very articulate, her perspective is quite broad, and she seems to place everything into its proper place. But one thing is missing, and maybe i'm asking too much here, but she mentions no names except those in the past, dead people whose names we already know. I understand the justification but just suppose she did name names, how different so much would be.

Although it was only touched on glancingly in this interview, there is a strange nexus involving CIA disinfo, UFO cultists, and Neo-Nazis. The accounts of people like Kathleen Sullivan often seem indistinguishable from those of UFO "contactees." UFO groups have been heavily infiltrated for years by Neo-Nazis -- Neocon Daniel Pipes, of all people was warning about this a while back. http://www.americandaily.com/article/639> And the Neo-Nazis tie back in with the disinfo types.

There's a new book which I haven't yet seen myself but which sounds relevant to the matters you've been exploring: "Project Beta, UFOs and official disinformation" by Greg Bishop. http://www.phenomenamagazine.com/0/editorial.asp?aff_id=0&this_cat=Area+51&action=page&obj_id=2504

Secret military tech may be the other side of the secret mind control story. Both came out of World War II -- on both the allied and German side. Both were heavily classified after the war. And there are many hints that both have been continued covertly for the last 60 years, with the UFO cult being a major means of coverup.

(It's also possible to make a persuasive case that the relative scientific and technological stagnation of the last 60 years -- compared with the incredible advances of 1875-1945 -- is the result of the military sitting on all the most promising new ideas and devices. But that's a rather different story from the one you're covering.)

'In an odd way, I consider myself fortunate that I was repeatedly exposed, as a child, to researchers who were absolutely brilliant. Although I suffered from their inability to recognize, and feel, the effects of what they did to me, their genius and creativity powerfully challenged my mind and helped it develop much more than it otherwise may have. This continues to be to my benefit, although I also choose to work hard on developing empathy towards others.'

illuminates yet the profound control:(love your tormentors)

the connections are abtruse & arabesque; she alludes withoutknowing(highly compartmentalized)

could you please insert a question into the next session regarding current connections of the american aryan/pedophile/criminal network to europe ? i live in europe and i see many things which resemble what i read from the states.

since somebody mentioned UFOs - according to what i have read, many of the victims of ritual abuse are given recoverable memories of alien abduction in order to discredit the victims.

regarding UFOs themselves, since about mid/end 2003, most UFO related websites stopped publishing new material or slowed down their publishing noticeably. this may have to do with shifting all available manpower to the immense disinfo campaign and intel effort around the iraq war.

Thanks again for the great reporting. Now I understand the "alien, patriot,ufo" part. I had found "some" of what David Icke, Alex Jones etc said interesting, but was always put off by their seeming anti-semitism.

Secondly, this may be a little off topic, but there is something I've always wondered about. I've read that the "Best Friends Animal Sanctuary" in Utah was started by the Process Church (read Lou Kitzer "Friends Find Their Calling", Feb 28, 2004 in Rocky Mountain News). And in Dave McGowan's Book "Programmed To Kill" he says "In the early 1960's, two ranking members of the Church of Scientology- Robert Moore and Mary Anne McLean, better known as the DeGrimstons- split off from London's Hubbard Institute to form the Process Church of The Final Judgement- a group whose official logo is a modified swastika and whose literature included glowing tributes to Nazism, Satan, gore and necrophilia". And later he says "by 1967, the Process had already spawned at least one spin-off, probably from the groups inner circle, reportedly known as "the Omega". The spin-off has been variously referred to as the "Four-P Movement, the "Four Pi" cult or the "Chingon" cult. The group's logo is a stylized swastika composed of four "P"s. It's members are said to share a fascination with Nazi racist doctrines. Author Michael Newton has written "If law-enforcement spokesmen are correct, the cult is also deeply involved in white slavery, child pornography and the international narcotics trade". How can a group which is interested in animal sacrifice end up owning the LARGEST animal SANCTUARY in the WORLD? A "no-kill" shelter at that. They own thousand of acres of land and have been given more by the U.S. government. It sounds like a wonderful cover. I think they fit into this story of mind-control, but it is very hard finding info on them. The animal rights movement loves them and are not inclined to investigate one of their own (nobody investigates their own).Another animal connection. Harry Harlow. When I try and explain mind control to people I just say "think Harry Harlow for humans". As time goes on though I keep finding that "metaphors" are often the truth. His experiments on deprivation, his "pit of dispair", "rape rack" and the like sound too much like MKULTRA for animals. Also the american public is convinced that torturing animals can tell them something about loving people. THIS MAKES NO SENSE. It sounds like some kind of psy-op. It also seems highly likely that there is a link between Harlow's known experiments with animals at the University of Wisconsin-Madison and the unknown experiments with humans, as if someone was making comparisons.Any info would be greatly appreciated. Thanks again Jefff and Kathleen.

So she thinks that "other" MK-Ultra survivors may be disinformants. Very interesting stuff.

As for the UFO's - do you remember that Spielberg drama series called "TAKEN"? http://www.cbc.ca/taken/

Well, in one scene, the "aliens" were Nazi doctors. Spielberg probably made the connecion while filming Shindler's list. The UFO thing is probably just a theme, a cover for other operations.

With respect to the occult/nazi stuff, Author Peter Levenda, in his astounding book entitled "Unholy Alliance: History of Nazi Involvement With The Occult" uncovers some really creepy stuff - like the pseudo-Hutterite colony in Chile named Colonia Dignidad.

I haven't known where to post these observations, but make of them what you will:1. The executive editor of the Omaha World Herald is "Larry King." I had seen him referenced on another blog and looked it up myself on the newspaper's website. I have no way of knowing for sure if it is the same Larry King of Boys Town fame, but he is supposed to be out of prison now. If so, he is in a powerful position. How did that happen?2. Kathleen's references to NASA are startling. I am reminded of how startling it was for Bush to mention in his SOTU address (was it just last year or the year before?) that he intended to put a man on Mars. Nothing came of it for a very long time. Then, Delay got a multi-billion dollar appropriation for NASA attached to the appropriations bill at the end of the last session last year, without any floor debate, it was just slipped in in the last minute. The amount was staggering, especially considering the condition of the economy. And Bradblog has been publicizing the strange goings-on in Florida between Yang Enterprises Inc. (YEI) and NASA. The company is owned by Chinese nationals and they have hired an illegal Chinese worker (Nee) who illegally sent missile technology to China and pled guilty and got a whopping $100 fine and probation! Something very fishy is going on between NASA and China. Is NASA a passthrough for illegal funding of some other secret endeavor? Or blackmail? NASA is such a hero to most Americans, it is a good cover (I guess) for something totally nefarious.3. The TV show "Alias" involves a top-secret government program of child indoctrination. The brightest children were abducted at a young age and trained to be killers and spies, and their memories replaced to mask the experience. I wonder who the consultants for the show are, who seem to know about such things. Surely they are not simply folks with a good imagination? Maybe I am just naiive (Like Condi, "Who could have imagined anyone would highjack airplanes and fly them into buildings?"). 4. When our president (and his "people") identify an issue or goal, you can bet it is not what they say. It is usually 180 degrees from where they are pointing. (Think "The War on Drugs" during the Iran/Contra era). And so I was shocked and concerned when the president brought up a topic out of the blue in his address to the UN last year, after the Iraq War "ended." We were all expecting his address to deal almost exclusively with WMD's, but he also added a condemnation of sexual slavery. Wow! Totally unexpected! I suspect it was a preemptive strike to ward off accusations that his administration was involved in any such thing. Likewise, all the pious claims of family values and morality at a time when they are riddled with gays and anti-family policies. And now, they have the nerve to assign poor Laura Bush the responsibility of looking out for the wayward boys of our nation! She who never had a brother or a son and who has no idea what young men today need or want. But it makes a good smokescreen!

I love your rigorous intuition. I believe firmly in the value of making such connections based on intuition.

This thread is disturbing as all hell. Hell, your entire blog is disturbing. And I am a person who has read and known about this stuff for years and years, like the Tavistock Institute and Dr. Jose Delgado.

My mom told me about something on your site then wouldn't tell me where she read it because she was afraid it would make me depressed. She was right, kind of, but in this political climate even a site like this is only a drop in the ocean. I'm a bit of a student of history and I've never known anything to look so bad in this country.

Doesn´t anybody notice, that Ms Sullivan is constantly discrediting herself?She admits, that she was warned about memory getting contaminated by other people´s stories, and she still read those stories, even if she says it was selective.She talks about "disinfo-agents" influencing "survivor-stories".She talks about Nazi-connections, but the Nazis weren´t experimenting in mind-control, propaganda was their biggest mind-control tool.Nazi-doctors experimented in unethical even fatal medical and human endurance research. Most intelligence agancies are of course tools to promote fascism, but they use the most efficient methods.And if these sexual-abuse mind-control theories were actually true, they seem to be extremely inefficient, or you wouldn´t have so many thousands walking around and talking about it, wouldn´t you?

Anyway I´m absolutely convinced, that the Recovered-Memory Multi-pPersonality UFO-Abduction CIA-Mind-Control Movement is a cult with several branches calling each other heretics. It´s built upon incompetent therapists with no clue about the actual workings of the brain, starting out with feminist paranoia, believing every man is a sexual predator, mass-media hype which just loves to overblow everything in connection with sex.If the CIA has anything to do with it, then it´s through the media.First of all, if conspiracy theorists can be put together in the public eye with the Recovered Memory Movement which has been thouroughly discredited, then they will also loose credibility.

And if I ty this in with another sex abuse scandal being hyped in the media there might be a second use for the CIA to jump on the Recovered Memory Bandwagon. Multipling sex-abuse allegations could be used against organisations the capitalist elite puts a dislike on, like the Catholic Church.In the third wave of sexual abuse hype, the Church is the main target.While there are a few true accusations, like in any other organisation working with youth, the media hype suggests it were everyday occurances everywhere.I just read that the Boston priest, who was in the news for years, has been accused by just one Recovered Memory guy.The accusation that the priest has been helpng a pedophile club was just a deliberately spread rumour.

So like real child-prostitution can be used for blackmailing polititians and others to do the CIA´s bidding, the fake abuse stories quite possibly can be used to extort money from the Church. Since the insane amount of money being given seems to be totally out of proportion. And the money is not given mainly to individuals but to some kind of organisation which is supposedly compensating the victims.This smells really funny to me.

Yeah, I know, most non-Catholics hate the catholic Church being indoctrinated by fundi-churches and mainline media how evil the catholich church has been through the ages and that it´s still a tool of the devil. And so you readily believe everything bad about the Church.

But as conspiracy theorists, why not turn on your critical mind and see, that the whole thing is about lots of money and a church-leadership denouncing globalisation and wealth-concentration and also war-mongering already since the first Gulf-War.

Anonymous One,Jeff I'm sorry they locked out the DU forum.Must be they didn't like the Hunter clue leaking on the floor.This thing is begining to look like a dyke with to many holes to plug and not enough fingers.Check out Maury Terry's The Ultimate Evil:The Truth About The Cult Murders:Son Of Sam And Beyond.Berkowits tells of a shadowy group in the NYC area.The Carr boys are also interesting,the Process church seems to be knee deep in this story.Anyone who doesn't think this shit is planned out for us to eat up,is walking around with blinders,later.

Great work Jeff. A fascinating interview. I hope you can figure out some of this stuff and make it more digestible to people like me who really don't know much about this topic and don't know what all to believe.

Someone mentioned Alias and wondered who was consulting them on stuff... well, Jennifer Garner has said that the CIA itself has been consulting on the show. Indeed, it would be VERY USEFUL to know exactly who at the CIA has been giving ideas to Alias, for what purpose, and to what extent.

Hi, all. I won't be responding much to readers' responses because my time is limited. I appreciate what each person has written. I understand that we are each in a different "place" - mentally and emotionally - about this kind of information. I also realize that we will, therefore, react accordingly.

Although I am busy with a lot of normal life responsibilities, I did want to respond to several of your comments and inquiries. Some of the others questions may be answered in future parts of the interview.

1) I wish with all my heart that I could name names. But I have learned the hard way that it can cause more harm than good for me. I've decided that I deserve happiness, and no longer want to be a martyr. If this was a game, and if what I shared was fantasy, then naming names would be safe. But these are people who I consider quite dangerous - at least to me and other survivors who have known them personally. I've already received threats towards myself and loved ones from sent-in middlemen who are fully capable of carrying out such threats, and I do take them seriously. My fervent hope is that someday, the world become educated and outraged enough about these atrocities for me to be able to safely name names.

2) One respondent stated that I wrote that "'other' MKUltra survivors may be disinformants." Please understand that I am not suggesting that those survivors are passing along disinfo deliberately. I was also tapped in the past to be used this way. Just about anyone who is outspoken is targeted to be used. Fortunately, I was able to figure out what was being done to me, and put a quick halt to it. I have no doubt that current proteges sincerely believe the lies that disinfo agent/handlers are feeding them. Facing reality is always painful. Realizing that we've been used to promote deception, when we're trying so hard to get the truth out, is especially humiliating and devastating. I hope that when these survivors wake up and realize they've been used, others who understand what was done to them will treat them kindly and with respect. It takes courage to speak out about these issues, and those survivors have tremendous courage.

3) I understand what one respondent was referring to in his statement about my being grateful that I was exposed to brilliant perps. I know, I know, nobody believes a mentally controlled slave can ever become free. But think of it this way: enslaved prostitutes can and do break from their handlers, who also mess with their heads. Some of the former prostitutes clean up their lives and straighten out their heads, and live reasonably normal new lives, while still always being aware of their darker pasts. Freedom is certainly attainable. Other mind control survivors have also regained control of their minds, and are now living as they choose. Concerning the related issue of "identification with the aggressor": since 1989, I've willingly undergone extensive deprogramming, deep introspection, memory recovery and integration, intensive psychotherapy and cognitive therapy, and more. Early in my recovery, I discovered many altered states of consciousness that were fiercely devoted to certain perps. (I mention all of this in my book.) Each time I found internal "pockets" of irrational loyalty to people who were dangerous to me, I first felt grief. I wanted so bad to be with them! After I worked through the grief and accepted that going back to them was not an option, I finally found my deeper, fierce hatred and rage towards them for what they'd done to me and other innocents. At first, I deliberately chose to keep my "hate blinders" on. I was only willing to think about the bad that they had done, and the human evil I'd seen within them. I wanted to do the worst to them. I wanted to believe that each one who died, went straight to hell. (If hell is real, they probably did, given their absence of subsequent noticeable remorse.) Constantly nursing my rage and hatred was unfortunately self-destructive. I became very bitter towards everyone around me, angry all the time. I realized that as long as I held onto my hatred, I would continue to self-destruct. I gradually let go of the hatred and rage by learning everything I could about the more well-known perps - especially their childhoods and family histories. I also studied psychopathology (anti-social personality disorder, sadism and pedophilia in particular)to attempt to understand what makes people like them "tick." I was deeply humbled by what I learned. I realized that I am more fortunate than they are - I could recover my humanity, whereas most of them were not capable of doing so. The offenders became less monstrous and powerful in my mind. My next step was to discard my false belief that they could not have anything good inside. Yes, they did terrible things to me and other victims. Yes, I believe that the perps who are still alive should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. But they are still human: part good, part bad, with lots of other stuff in-between. Most of the perps who experimented on my mind and young body were the most brilliant people I have ever encountered. Their intelligence challenged and "upped" my own IQ. By example, they also taught me a very necessary survival skill: thinking outside the box. Had my level of intelligence not increased as a direct result of my forced interactions with them, I probably would not have figured out some of the traps that have since been set out for me, to attempt to bring me back into servitude. I also would not feel any hope for the future, because I would not believe that there is any way to get beyond what they have done to my mind and life. Now, I know better. Now, I have much hope for myself and for our future as a society.

Wow...Kathleen,thank you for taking the time to elucidate some of the issues you raised in your interview w/ Jeff to which we responded,in part,w/ dismay.'Identity with the aggressor" now has an intelligent context:(e.g.) both worthy opponent & alters' adoration. Cetainly the mind can adequately create it's own prisons & w/ consummate professionals aiding in the construction of labyrinthine chinese boxes the burden can be doubly onerous. Given that their intentions & methods were not honorable compounds the difficulty. Your self-awareness, brutal honesty, & intrepid spirit are truly admirable.Kudos.As you've said so eloquently:

'I realized that as long as I held onto my hatred, I would continue to self-destruct.'&'Freedom is certainly attainable.'

Indeed.Although the circumstances were markedly different aspects of your journey are mirrored here:

the von braun comments are particularly interesting (having been a neighbor in AL years ago), and chilling....

check out the comcast website for today. www.comcast.netbe patient, as what you're after rolls around in the site's rotating news headlines. you'll know it when you see it. and i would guess it only applies to 2/28.coincidence? at least odd.

Kathleen, all power to you. We are just unravelling the threads of ritual abuse here in Australia, and your point about disinformation is very well taken.

The work of some great advocates here have been fundamentally undermined as they buy into disinformation and New World Order conspiracy theories. It's sad to see them publically throw their credibility out the window.

It's hard to engage critically with this stuff when it is all so extreme, but that is a challenge that we have to be the equal of.

Thank you as has been already said for Blazing the trail. The victims that do not survive satanic ritual abuse need a lot of help and are very active here in the UK with I am sorry to say USA influence/participants.We have stopped giving names as it has been obvious that family members who have questioned the loss of a child have them selves become victims. DA notices have been imposed and the press is no longer carrying out investigative reporting. One does indeed hope that the truth will out but where is the will?(my firewall goes hyperactive on this site! I wonder why!)from darkness to LIGHT.

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I understand Kathleen Sullivan's personal position on various government cover-ups. I am curious about her thoughts on the "UFO" abduction phenomenon. Is it possible that there is a link to abductions and veteran's? Let's just say, right about the time they dispute "official" medical records information.