IIF I only disagree with 1 thing you said. You stated guns accidentally going off... Ok this is a semantic and maybe more of a personl position but there is no such thing as an ACCIDENTAL discharge of a firearm there is only a NEGLIGENT discharge, due to peoples stupidity, lack of training, or just plain lack of respect for the weapon and its capabilities. Example see Bneterasedmynams comment about Im little trained but can shoot to good effect.

My apologies, I was refering to post Number 30 in Boby's spoiler with in this one. So I believe it was Boby that made that statement. It apears again in post #32 in the spoiler again. So my spologies for attributing that to you.

Your argument is 100% strawman. It goes on a theory that you know how someone will react to stress or fear. Everyone is different in that respect. I have no desire to ever have to use a firearm to defend myself, but if that point does arise I will not hesitate regardless of YOUR opinion. I'm not a bad aim, but yes my aim might be off in an attack, but then again it might not, that's the unknown life gives us. Oh and here's how worried I am about having to use a gun, I don't even currently own one.

Where in that did I state you wouldnt be willing to pull the trigger? More to the point I think you'd pull it with out making all the split second decisions that are invlolved with effectively using firearms. Sure I bet your willing to pull it but are you capable in the alloted time given. And another thing it's a proven fact that under duress and elevated stress, fine motorskills decrease greatly..Thats why "Effective" shooters drill these things repeatedly, much like a BJJ practitional drills arm bars endlessly over the course of years of training...Its to create muscle memory....

Where in that did I state you wouldnt be willing to pull the trigger? More to the point I think you'd pull it with out making all the split second decisions that are invlolved with effectively using firearms. Sure I bet your willing to pull it but are you capable in the alloted time given. And another thing it's a proven fact that under duress and elevated stress, fine motorskills decrease greatly..Thats why "Effective" shooters drill these things repeatedly, much like a BJJ practitional drills arm bars endlessly over the course of years of training...Its to create muscle memory....

I can see you're still wanting to talk out of your ass. Your entire statement is based completely on your own personal opinion. You have no way of knowing how someone you do not even know would react to adrenalin or high stress. And don't lecture me on the purpose of drilling a technique you asshat, I am well aware of the purpose of training. There are a million variables when it comes to defense that go well beyond training or stress management. And How do you possibly think that if stress causes someone to fail at weapon use that they would in any way be able to function without a weapon?? There is a reason that every military organization for the last 10000 years has used weapons, it's because they work.

I can see you're still wanting to talk out of your ass. Your entire statement is based completely on your own personal opinion. You have no way of knowing how someone you do not even know would react to adrenalin or high stress.

Well, you can educate us then. Because I know how I react to that situation, because I have been in it many times. So have you ever been in this type of situation that we are talking about? Or have you trained for it? If not, then you are the one talking out of your ass.

And don't lecture me on the purpose of drilling a technique you asshat, I am well aware of the purpose of training. There are a million variables when it comes to defense that go well beyond training or stress management.

If you know the purpose of training then you know that the point is to take those millions of variable and trim them down into the lest amount as possible, by learning to control and counter the ones that you can address.

And How do you possibly think that if stress causes someone to fail at weapon use that they would in any way be able to function without a weapon??

Because weapon use(guns) involve fine motor control, whereas kickboxing for example uses gross motor movements. So, if you have not trained to react appropriately to the stress, you could be able to still defend yourself with your hands through gross motor movments.

There is a reason that every military organization for the last 10000 years has used weapons, it's because they work.

What is your experience with military training and methodology? I think that here you are talking out of your ass again.

Are you really going to fall into that strawman argument??

I wasn't talking to you, idiot. See how I use quotes and stuff? That is for when I am replying to someone but not right behind their post. So **** off, since you have nothing to add.

Well, you can educate us then. Because I know how I react to that situation, because I have been in it many times. So have you ever been in this type of situation that we are talking about? Or have you trained for it? If not, then you are the one talking out of your ass.

If you know the purpose of training then you know that the point is to take those millions of variable and trim them down into the lest amount as possible, by learning to control and counter the ones that you can address.

Because weapon use(guns) involve fine motor control, whereas kickboxing for example uses gross motor movements. So, if you have not trained to react appropriately to the stress, you could be able to still defend yourself with your hands through gross motor movments.

What is your experience with military training and methodology? I think that here you are talking out of your ass again.

I wasn't talking to you, idiot. See how I use quotes and stuff? That is for when I am replying to someone but not right behind their post. So **** off, since you have nothing to add.

If your talking about a situation where someone has attacked me with a weapon than yes I do know how I did in fact respond. Your opinion however that it takes specialized training to use a weapon effectively is bullshit. Just thumb through the martial arts in the news forum, there are plenty of examples of people using weapons pretty damn effectively with little to no training.

That post wasn't in response to me?? Well my bad, but the was no quoted response with it so I assumed on that one.

Also I am not in anyway saying that training will not make a person better, but the better the weapon the less training will be needed to make it lethal.

What is my experience in military training and methods?? Seriously?? I was not aware I needed it to point out that the army uses guns, the Romans used swords and etc. etc. What the **** training would I need to point that out??

Have you even seen someone pick up an AR-15, who has never fired one before? Do they know how to use it? No they don't. That is a better weapon that can not be used well without some basic training.

A .38 revolver, yeah, pretty easy. An automatic, starts getting more difficult. To say that you don't need any training to use one...sounds like you are defending your position, just for the sake of it.