My quarterly elec bill is $220. Thats for 2 people and running my music studio. I do notice it goes up about $40 in summer...because of the A/C [occassionally] we use. Air con IS expensive.

This!
Nardo your doing it wrong, I just got my bill, $320, that's for four of us, which includes electric hot water (kids want a lamp left on all night because of the boogie man) a washing machine that on Saturdays runs for 8hours straight, AC in summer and big pool pump running five hours a day.
Add in decks/mixer on for 10hrs a week a computer that never seems to be turned off, a projector, big screen tv and huge fridge that always has the door open, very reasonable.

Something Geezah, Australians are becoming the biggest bunch of whinging ****s on the planet.

My only gripe about living in Brisbane is public transport costs, they are a joke, apart from that I live like a king.
Anyway as everyone on here knows the cost of living wont change under the Palmer/Newman government but it sure will be fun reading the comments about it in the paper in a years time.

I don't mind the public transport cost really. It's about 30 bucks a week for me. Maybe if you live further out it's worse? If I lived very far out, I'd be doing the "take a trip during lunch for just one stop" thingo a couple times a week.

I hear Newman is going to change it so you get free travel after nine trips instead of ten.

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This!
Nardo your doing it wrong, I just got my bill, $320, that's for four of us, which includes electric hot water (kids want a lamp left on all night because of the boogie man) a washing machine that on Saturdays runs for 8hours straight, AC in summer and big pool pump running five hours a day.
Add in decks/mixer on for 10hrs a week a computer that never seems to be turned off, a projector, big screen tv and huge fridge that always has the door open, very reasonable.

that's not bad for a full family and a pool pump, I know people with $1200 bills!!
We came it at $252, and we managed to reduce consumption by 10%

If it were economically viable, private energy companies be falling over themselves to fund the project. If it's not economically viable, then sure, pull the plug. $1 billion to prop up 450 jobs ($22 million a job) is more than a bit ridiculous.

The thing you dont understand is that the majority of people out in the real world just want cheap power to warm and cool their homes rather than a warm and fuzzy feeling of windmills and solar panels that result in huge power bills and/or massive government subsidies.

I realize this carbon-tax-that-isnt-a-tax thing is what you do for a crust and so you have a vested interest in keeping the true believers in power, but your gravy train is racing full steam ahead towards a cliff.

If it were economically viable, a private company would fund the project. If it's not economically viable, then sure, pull the plug. Most people just want cheap power rather than warm and fuzzy windmills and solar panels that cost an arm and a leg, and they will vote for a party who offers cheap power.

But that's the joke, energy from renewable sources is always going to be more expensive, it's about having a long term vision of where energy is going to come from in the future, and settings things on a path that won't let you be caught with your pants down in 30 years time, a trivial amount of pain now vs a massive amount of pain in the future. And top of that is the real existential threat from climate change.

If it were economically viable, private energy companies be falling over themselves to fund the project. If it's not economically viable, then sure, pull the plug. $1 billion to prop up 450 jobs ($22 million a job) is more than a bit ridiculous.

The thing you dont understand is that the majority of people out in the real world just want cheap power to warm and cool their homes rather than a warm and fuzzy feeling of windmills and solar panels that result in huge power bills and/or massive government subsidies.

I realize this carbon-tax-that-isnt-a-tax thing is what you do for a crust and so you have a vested interest in keeping the true believers in power, but your gravy train is racing full steam ahead towards a cliff.

You are weird dude, honestly. You're the one who is always on about price: yet the longer we delay investment in renewables, the higher the price will be when you are older. But no, let's keep delaying and delaying and delaying, you are right, it will be cheaper in the future. :sarcasm:

"It might"? "Might" is a bit of a wishywashy word to use when you're trying to justify some expensive and disruptive changes, however I'm pro-alternative energy not because I want the world's climate to stop changing, but just because I think it's more sustainable and less pollutiony. Who needs to bring climate change into it at all?

Pollutiony is definitely a word btw.

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"It might"? "Might" is a bit of a wishywashy word to use when you're trying to justify some expensive and disruptive changes, however I'm pro-alternative energy not because I want the world's climate to stop changing, but just because I think it's more sustainable and less pollutiony. Who needs to bring climate change into it at all?

2. Pollutiony is definitely a word btw.

1. Aaaarrgh, I remember the good ol' days when you use to talk about BJs and Jizzbombs, now you've turned into the Queen of Semanticism. If we reduce and maintain our CO2 emissions to whatever ppm we need to keep it under to keep the temperature increase by 2°C or below, then we WILL have curbed the AGW portion of Climate Change enough. The "might" was misplaced in that sentence, it was meant to acknowledge that there is uncertainty about when this might happen, and at what temperature increase might break the climate.

2. It's all about the Y. Y is the it new suffix: the adjective transformer device.

You are weird dude, honestly. You're the one who is always on about price: yet the longer we delay investment in renewables, the higher the price will be when you are older. But no, let's keep delaying and delaying and delaying, you are right, it will be cheaper in the future. :sarcasm:

See I was always put under the impression that renewable energy would get cheaper and more efficient as time went on. eg: a solar plant that can power a small town today that may cost $1 billion - may be able to power half of Brisbane with a fraction of those funds in today's terms in another decade from now. Just as an example a mate of mine runs an very successful solar power company. The cost of fitting out businesses and homes with solar power has tumbled multiple times just in the past decade that he's been in the game.

Not that this is my area of expertise - just my 2c.

Secondly, you're preaching to the converted here. I'm merely taking a helicopter view approach to the situation. I'm all for renewable energy if it's commercially viable, but I strongly dislike any artificial propping up of industries - especially if it increases costs to the consumer. It doesn't matter if it's Holden or Tim Flannery's Geothermal racket, protectionism is a failboat model of business, each and every single time.

I speak to ordinary Australians every single day and they all tell me basically what Nardo has summed up in his earlier post. They dont give a shit where their power comes from they just want it cheap. Now these are the working class folks out in the burbs & the formerly dedicated labor voting base. They feel that Labor have lost their relevancy with the common working bloke that just wants a fair go at work, good healthcare and education and smaller bills.

Now these people are not any dumber or smarter than you and I, they're Australians and they're entitled to their opinions and to maintain their high level of lifestyle, and they will vote for whoever will be in their best interests to keep it that way or reach higher. Nothing wrong with that.

Abandoning these 'middle of the road' people and taking a "we know what's best for the future of the country" is purely arrogance and is exactly why the ALP is going down the shitter no matter where in the country you look. The sooner the ALP start navel gazing and stop blaming Abbott, the Murdoch Press & the Vibe and re-discover their roots in what they stand for, the sooner they will look like they will win an election this decade..

A federal solar project that is funded mainly by the federal government.

A state that lost its AAA credit rating and needs to pay down labor debt of $62 billion.

Context is important Claude. Collecting disparate degrees, flitting from mediocre government job to another and being a jack of all trades but master of none, won't teach you about context Claude.

LOL... Nardo, mate, I work in the private sector. Of course, making the effort, and paying a lot of money, to be a life learner is naturally going to be a target of derision for people like you who wear ignorance like a badge of honour.

I don't doubt he has an undeniable mandate. That is what I regard as the real tragedy.

If it were economically viable, private energy companies be falling over themselves to fund the project. If it's not economically viable, then sure, pull the plug. $1 billion to prop up 450 jobs ($22 million a job) is more than a bit ridiculous.

The thing you dont understand is that the majority of people out in the real world just want cheap power to warm and cool their homes rather than a warm and fuzzy feeling of windmills and solar panels that result in huge power bills and/or massive government subsidies.

I realize this carbon-tax-that-isnt-a-tax thing is what you do for a crust and so you have a vested interest in keeping the true believers in power, but your gravy train is racing full steam ahead towards a cliff.

What makes you think I don't understand people want cheap power? Who wouldn't understand that?

My gravy train (the gravy train that has had me labelled as a third world exploiting charlatan, a degree collecting public servant, a latte sipping Newtown socialist and a rabid left wing greenie) has and will continue to have me sitting very pretty thank you. I don't have to worry about the cost of living. I make shitloads. I'm not dependent on the Australian economy. And I care about the environment, and I have empathy for the disadvantaged, and I help them.

What you don't understand is that every time your votes shut down progressive development you push us further and further behind the economies you are scared of. You fulfill your own prophecies. You are narrow minded, conservative and regressive. You don't seem to understand what is needed in the future. You look backward, backstroking against the flow. You are Menzian, incapable of understanding what the future holds for us, and you are hell bent on making sure you fail and you bring down as many as possible. You deserve Gillard, Abbott and Newman. They play your politics. It's your fault.

All of you who criticise my point of view seem to be struggling in our economy, but I'm not. So who is right? Isn't it about time you stopped acting like welfare dependent proletariat?

By sliming anyone who disagrees with you, you are coming across as an angry baby throwing it's toys of it's cot. So on the one hand, you have people out in the real world earning money, many by digging stuff out of the ground, and on the other hand you have people like you earning less - but still considerable amounts of money, by attaching yourselves as parasites to the cause and surviving on the taxpayers teet. You see as much as I hate Abbott & Co, the more I read about bloodsuckers like you and your ilk, the more and more I feel compelled to vote for them just to put folks like you out of business. Thank goodness the electorate is on the same page. Perhaps you deserve Bob Brown?

I'm all for renewable energy if it's commercially viable, but I strongly dislike any artificial propping up of industries - especially if it increases costs to the consumer.

Speaking of artificially propping up industries, you would be aware that coal burning power stations get away scott free without paying a cent for the pollution they dump into the sky. Nuclear has to pay significant costs to deal with their waste product, they aren't allowed to just throw it up into the sky. Science and economics is pretty settled that co2 and other pollution is causing actual costs on the ground. Whether its in health costs or environmental.

It seems to me that the coal and oil industries ARE being artificial propped up because they aren't being made to pay for their polluting. They are polluting for free. Most industries aren't afforded that luxury.

I speak to ordinary Australians every single day and they all tell me basically what Nardo has summed up in his earlier post. They dont give a shit where their power comes from they just want it cheap.

I'll ask you the same question I asked Nardo, but he refused to answer.

Is $2 a day cheap enough for your gas, electricity and water? It's half a cup of coffee. Or 600ml of bottled water. Or half a one zone bus fare.

Baax's family is paying 89cents a day per family member. Is that cheap enough?

See I was always put under the impression that renewable energy would get cheaper and more efficient as time went on. eg: a solar plant that can power a small town today that may cost $1 billion - may be able to power half of Brisbane with a fraction of those funds in today's terms in another decade from now. Just as an example a mate of mine runs an very successful solar power company. The cost of fitting out businesses and homes with solar power has tumbled multiple times just in the past decade that he's been in the game.

Not that this is my area of expertise - just my 2c.

Secondly, you're preaching to the converted here. I'm merely taking a helicopter view approach to the situation. I'm all for renewable energy if it's commercially viable, but I strongly dislike any artificial propping up of industries - especially if it increases costs to the consumer. It doesn't matter if it's Holden or Tim Flannery's Geothermal racket, protectionism is a failboat model of business, each and every single time.

I speak to ordinary Australians every single day and they all tell me basically what Nardo has summed up in his earlier post. They dont give a shit where their power comes from they just want it cheap. Now these are the working class folks out in the burbs & the formerly dedicated labor voting base. They feel that Labor have lost their relevancy with the common working bloke that just wants a fair go at work, good healthcare and education and smaller bills.

Now these people are not any dumber or smarter than you and I, they're Australians and they're entitled to their opinions and to maintain their high level of lifestyle, and they will vote for whoever will be in their best interests to keep it that way or reach higher. Nothing wrong with that.

Abandoning these 'middle of the road' people and taking a "we know what's best for the future of the country" is purely arrogance and is exactly why the ALP is going down the shitter no matter where in the country you look. The sooner the ALP start navel gazing and stop blaming Abbott, the Murdoch Press & the Vibe and re-discover their roots in what they stand for, the sooner they will look like they will win an election this decade..

The whole point about pricing carbon is the need to start making businesses and consumers pay the actual cost of fossil fuels; to stop externalising the costs by passing them onto the businesses and consumers of the future.

There's a reason why Bob Brown is the longest serving leader of any political party in Parliament. It's because he is a man who believes what he is doing and is true to himself and his cause. If you ever listen to parliament he is head and shoulders above the rest in putting forward a coherent and passionate position.

There is a reason why the Greens picked up almost all the swing at the last election. It's Bob Brown.

There is a reason why both Abbott and Gillard have an approval rating down in the 30's. It's because neither of them have the integrity that Bob Brown has shown as leader of his party over an extended period of time.

It seems to me that the coal and oil industries ARE being artificial propped up because they aren't being made to pay for their polluting. They are polluting for free. Most industries aren't afforded that luxury.

There's a reason why Bob Brown is the longest serving leader of any political party in Parliament. It's because he is a man who believes what he is doing and is true to himself and his cause. If you ever listen to parliament he is head and shoulders above the rest in putting forward a coherent and passionate position.

There is a reason why the Greens picked up almost all the swing at the last election. It's Bob Brown.

There is a reason why both Abbott and Gillard have an approval rating down in the 30's. It's because neither of them have the integrity that Bob Brown has shown as leader of his party over an extended period of time.

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Discuss snackfoods, bitch about the DJ Top100 Poll, or make mildly embarassing, banal admissions about your personal life.WE'RE IN BEIGE COUNTRY NOW.

See I was always put under the impression that renewable energy would get cheaper and more efficient as time went on. eg: a solar plant that can power a small town today that may cost $1 billion - may be able to power half of Brisbane with a fraction of those funds in today's terms in another decade from now. Just as an example a mate of mine runs an very successful solar power company. The cost of fitting out businesses and homes with solar power has tumbled multiple times just in the past decade that he's been in the game.

Alternative energy sources will get cheaper because of efficiencies in manufacturing due to up scaling and improved proceses, but they can't get cheaper than carbon energy because setting up alternative energy sources is still done with carbon energy.

And the Solar photo voltaic industry overall is running at a loss because of overcapacity, many manufacturers have become bankrupt, many still to follow. I'm sceptical that PV is ever going to be this cheap again.

Quote:

I'm all for renewable energy if it's commercially viable, but I strongly dislike any artificial propping up of industries

By sliming anyone who disagrees with you, you are coming across as an angry baby throwing it's toys of it's cot. So on the one hand, you have people out in the real world earning money, many by digging stuff out of the ground, and on the other hand you have people like you earning less - but still considerable amounts of money, by attaching yourselves as parasites to the cause and surviving on the taxpayers teet. You see as much as I hate Abbott & Co, the more I read about bloodsuckers like you and your ilk, the more and more I feel compelled to vote for them just to put folks like you out of business. Thank goodness the electorate is on the same page. Perhaps you deserve Bob Brown?

tl;dr you're not doing a lot of good for your cause.

Hey, firstly, if you ever care to look at the history of these threads I usually get slimed first.

Secondly, you along with others need to stop inventing your own misapprehensions about what it is that I do. It's both fascinating and pathetic reading how angry you get at constructs of your own imagination. Most adults grow out of that.

Thirdly, you've spent years jumping on my posts no matter what it is I post about. I find that really weird and more than a little pathological, but to be honest it makes me laugh how much I get under your skin without so much as trying. And when I try, as I've alluded to before, it's liking catching sandworms.

I've known for a long time trying to inform the intrasigent and ignorant on this forum is a lost cause, so I may as well just act like the arrogant prick you think I am.

There's a reason why Bob Brown is the longest serving leader of any political party in Parliament. It's because he is a man who believes what he is doing and is true to himself and his cause. If you ever listen to parliament he is head and shoulders above the rest in putting forward a coherent and passionate position.

There is a reason why the Greens picked up almost all the swing at the last election. It's Bob Brown.

There is a reason why both Abbott and Gillard have an approval rating down in the 30's. It's because neither of them have the integrity that Bob Brown has shown as leader of his party over an extended period of time.

unbelievable

how much you on a year claude? define "shitloads"
also how big is your penis if you dont mind.

What you don't understand is that every time your votes shut down progressive development you push us further and further behind the economies you are scared of. You fulfill your own prophecies. You are narrow minded, conservative and regressive. You don't seem to understand what is needed in the future. You look backward, backstroking against the flow.

There is no fool like and old fool.

Not everything that is labelled progressive by the progressive movement is wonderful and flowery. Your gravy train, the carbon tax, that you've been pushing relentlessly is regressive. Borne out of a lie, drafted with political expediency in mind and not principle, the carbon tax is a fundamentally flawed piece of legislation.

Whether you like to believe it or not, after the next election who ever is in power will take a baseball bat to the carbon tax and the people will rejoice.

There will probably be a hit to the budget but nothing cuts to health, eduction and other public goods cannot take care of.

I've always thought that the carbon tax is sooooo poisonous, economically and politically, that there will be bipartisan support in repealing or amending the legislation.

In my view the support to repeal or amend it is already there. If Labor had its time again they wouldn't have passed it. That is enough to indicate that they are not willing to die on the cross for it, if they loose the next election. If push comes to shove they will cooperated with the coalition just like the coalition cooperated with labor on workchoices.

Borne out of a lie, drafted with political expediency in mind and not principle, the carbon tax is a fundamentally flawed piece of legislation.

This is as good a time as any to repeat a question which I have asked repeatedly in a number of places - is there anyone out there who voted for the ALP on the basis of the "no carbon tax" promise who was expecting the ALP to do nothing about putting a price on carbon? I'm yet to get a positive response, I should add.

But we're fools if we sit back and stare at the ground
While the weasels and analysts sing
If we want our place in history, we can't let the frustration
Drive us to fashionable drinking again

I've always thought that the carbon tax is sooooo poisonous, economically and politically, that there will be bipartisan support in repealing or amending the legislation.

In my view the support to repeal or amend it is already there. If Labor had its time again they wouldn't have passed it. That is enough to indicate that they are not willing to die on the cross for it, if they loose the next election. If push comes to shove they will cooperated with the coalition just like the coalition cooperated with labor on workchoices.

nah, by the time the next election is on, it will be in place, most people wont notice jack shit, and any push to see it repealed (with the assosicated increases in company tax for example which will follow), wont see anything like bipartisan support. That plus the fact that climate change is real and is happening means it will stay in place.
Just because Ray Hadley and the daily tele think its bad doesnt mean shit; the pathetic attacks on Tim Flannery they have been running smell of desperation to me.

"Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people, it is true that most stupid people are conservative." John Stuart Mill

Not everything that is labelled progressive by the progressive movement is wonderful and flowery. Your gravy train, the carbon tax, that you've been pushing relentlessly is regressive. Borne out of a lie, drafted with political expediency in mind and not principle, the carbon tax is a fundamentally flawed piece of legislation.

Whether you like to believe it or not, after the next election who ever is in power will take a baseball bat to the carbon tax and the people will rejoice.

There will probably be a hit to the budget but nothing cuts to health, eduction and other public goods cannot take care of.

whether you like it or not, I'm not remotely interested in your opinion

Yes indeed. Just watch the carbon tax at work over the next thirty or so years, lowering the temperature by about 0.0154 C. (Assuming we stop emissions by 100% which is a pretty big fucking assumption.)

Now THAT'S what I call ACTION!

Stop saying it's about stopping climate change! It's NOT about that. It's not going to do that!
The best you can hope for, is that it will encourage a financial benefit towards the use of renewable energy, and we'll start behaving more sustainably as a result.

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Yes indeed. Just watch the carbon tax at work over the next thirty or so years, lowering the temperature by about 0.0154 C. (Assuming we stop emissions by 100% which is a pretty big fucking assumption.)

Now THAT'S what I call ACTION!

.

thanks Alan Jones

"Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people, it is true that most stupid people are conservative." John Stuart Mill

This is as good a time as any to repeat a question which I have asked repeatedly in a number of places - is there anyone out there who voted for the ALP on the basis of the "no carbon tax" promise who was expecting the ALP to do nothing about putting a price on carbon? I'm yet to get a positive response, I should add.

That question is irrelevent but ill try to answer it anyway:

She used that famous line because she thought she could gain politically from it. Why else would she have said it? That In itself suggests that there were votes in making that statement.

Here we are today in a government she leads with a carbon tax.

Which ever way you cut it; she either misled the public or outright lied to them.