"Beta is beta..." "Balanced around level 90.." "Wait until you get raid gear..."

When does it end?
I am actually sick of feeling like I need to reroll.
Loads of well thought out, mathematic posts about why disc, and to a lesser extent, holy are lacking in healing since beta, for example with our very own Havoc, and with Kaels on the US forums.

In beta it was "Beta is beta guys, calm down."

In the pre-patch it was "Balanced at 90 guys, calm down."

And now, the "Priests are fine" brigade seem to be touting the following:

"lol just stack more spirit, this isn't cata noob"
"wait until we get raid geared, it should be fine then"
"Use your mana cooldowns"
God, I even read one on the US forums which was like "lol guys priests had their day in BC and Wrath, it was our turn to be shit now."
"You'll get a raid spot because of Barrier and SS stop QQing lol"

And my all time favorite, "Well, Priests are fine, me and my team killed a boss before" or "I LUv priest I can just smite in dungeons and heal everyone!"

So many people are guilty of jumping on the excuse bandwagon, our very own mods, MVPs, the occasional blue (far back in beta)
Healing priests are broken, and there are no 2 ways about it.
Please stop posting "priests are fine" threads.
Please stop putting down people who are complaining with points that arn't relevant.
We are nothing on other classes right now. I don't have to top the meters, but my god I want to feel like I'm contributing and not being carried.
I decided at the start of MOP to pick myself up and join a serious raiding guild, I got one, and even though my raid leader is telling me he doesn't mind, I know it all matters, especially when we move onto HCs. I doubt I'll even get a spot.

Blizz, fix us, and for the rest of you with all your "we're fine" stuff, please stay quiet.
Thank you.

"I'm sorry, but I can't hear you over the sound of how bad ass my discipline priest looks."

There are ways to get your point across without whining, no one wants anyone to stop pointing out what needs to be fixed but some people are too overtly passionate and at worst down-right aggressive about it that it washes the forum in a stark paint of negativity that's completely unnecessary.
And thus, the responses...and the rebuttals, and then the insults start getting thrown and eventually a GM has to come in just to get everyone to shut up and then locked.

The blues do read and relay, hell it's their job, but sometimes the testers just can't find the problem you have straight away. The community.... is a raving, hooting bunch of dickholes who form groups of people who: don't know what they're talking about, don't CARE what you're talking about and some rare few really do know what they're talking about but might not have all the data to make their point and sometimes come across as antagonistic about their problems specifically because it's causing them frustrations ingame (understandably)

The best thing is to just carry on and make threads outlining your problem clearly, maturely and with all the factual evidence you can gather and ignore all the 'but meeeeeeeh' topic posters because it's likely that you finding this flaw has made it tougher for their class or plugs a loophole they don't want plugged.
Don't list all your woes. The fact is, no one will care, what they do need from you is hard evidence about what is causing issues. And you need to be smart about it on the Blizzard forums or those little troglodytes will rip you to pieces. So go forth bravely and with clear tongue. For this is the wrong platform for it.

...If you're too LAZY to gather the evidence then I'm afraid you're going to have to sit down and wait for enough other people to do it for you. But don't whine about it.
I've been down that road too, it's a fact, no one will care more than you, so do something about it or just sit quietly.

Originally Posted by savutitus

Yeah, it's always WAR WAR WAR untill..BY ALL THAT IS HOLY DO YOU SEE THAT ENEMY OVER THERE?? GLORIOUS LOOT!!!!!

There are ways to get your point across without whining, no one wants anyone to stop pointing out what needs to be fixed but some people are too overtly passionate and at worst down-right aggressive about it that it washes the forum in a stark paint of negativity that's completely unnecessary.
And thus, the responses...and the rebuttals, and then the insults start getting thrown and eventually a GM has to come in just to get everyone to shut up and then locked.

The blues do read and relay, hell it's their job, but sometimes the testers just can't find the problem you have straight away. The community.... is a raving, hooting bunch of dickholes who form groups of people who: don't know what they're talking about, don't CARE what you're talking about and some rare few really do know what they're talking about but might not have all the data to make their point and sometimes come across as antagonistic about their problems specifically because it's causing them frustrations ingame (understandably)

The best thing is to just carry on and make threads outlining your problem clearly, maturely and with all the factual evidence you can gather and ignore all the 'but meeeeeeeh' topic posters because it's likely that you finding this flaw has made it tougher for their class or plugs a loophole they don't want plugged.
Don't list all your woes. The fact is, no one will care, what they do need from you is hard evidence about what is causing issues. And you need to be smart about it on the Blizzard forums or those little troglodytes will rip you to pieces. So go forth bravely and with clear tongue. For this is the wrong platform for it.

...If you're too LAZY to gather the evidence then I'm afraid you're going to have to sit down and wait for enough other people to do it for you. But don't whine about it.
I've been down that road too, it's a fact, no one will care more than you, so do something about it or just sit quietly.

Everything you said, despite being in ... polite-ish manner... is completely wrong.

You know what one thing gets me each and every time?
The "give them hard data..." response, man... you even took it a step further with "If you're too LAZY to get data".. it's not the customers job to get data, it's Blizzards.
But even then, they get 6 months of hard data and nothing but a "it'll be fine".
I'm fucking sick of it.
And, fyi, I have wrote many, many clear, concise forum posts (on the EU forums), from my main, outlined what I felt wasn't right.
I understand they get a lot of QQ, but when it's THIS dire, it's like... does no one at blizz actually play a priest or what?

"I'm sorry, but I can't hear you over the sound of how bad ass my discipline priest looks."

Everything you said, despite being in ... polite-ish manner... is completely wrong.

You know what one thing gets me each and every time?
The "give them hard data..." response, man... you even took it a step further with "If you're too LAZY to get data".. it's not the customers job to get data, it's Blizzards.
But even then, they get 6 months of hard data and nothing but a "it'll be fine".
I'm fucking sick of it.
And, fyi, I have wrote many, many clear, concise forum posts (on the EU forums), from my main, outlined what I felt wasn't right.
I understand they get a lot of QQ, but when it's THIS dire, it's like... does no one at blizz actually play a priest or what?

Actually, he's right. You're wrong. From what I've been reading, it's a bunch of whining, without any support. It's more like you're complaining that your class isn't OP like Holy Paladins are.

It IS the customers job to collect data, if you want to support you claim on the forums. To be completely honest, the Discipline Priest in my raid group heals on par with my resto druid in pre-raid gear. She sees nothing wrong with it, and she plays the class.

Also, I noticed that your sig says you play a Discipline Priest. Are you spamming bubbles on everybody? If you are, I'm fairly sure I see the problem.

Point is, you DO need data. At least on these forums. We will help you, but we also don't like listening to people complaining for no reason.

Actually, he's right. You're wrong. From what I've been reading, it's a bunch of whining, without any support. It's more like you're complaining that your class isn't OP like Holy Paladins are.

It IS the customers job to collect data, if you want to support you claim on the forums. To be completely honest, the Discipline Priest in my raid group heals on par with my resto druid in pre-raid gear. She sees nothing wrong with it, and she plays the class.

Also, I noticed that your sig says you play a Discipline Priest. Are you spamming bubbles on everybody? If you are, I'm fairly sure I see the problem.

Point is, you DO need data. At least on these forums. We will help you, but we also don't like listening to people complaining for no reason.

I've found just because people post "lol you're whining" they seem to think it gives them some sort of high ground, especially when they make baseless claims on how I play because of my signature.

Honestly, mate, if your disc if matching your druid, your druid is actually fucking aweful, and it would be great if you could supply a parse.

What I've gathered from your post: you know nothing about priests, you don't play a priest, and you're probably just trolling. Have a good day.

But, since I might lose credibility in the eyes of you sorts of people, no, I don't want to be OP like Palas, I would like to be competitive, and no, I am not spamming PW:S, I actually can only afford to use it when I pop my trinket or get a Darkglow proc.

I actually hate people like you. It's really, really hard not to be aggressive when people who play decent classes just say "lol your fine blizz will fix give them data LOL ur such whiner stop spa,ming shield".

"I'm sorry, but I can't hear you over the sound of how bad ass my discipline priest looks."

I've found just because people post "lol you're whining" they seem to think it gives them some sort of high ground, especially when they make baseless claims on how I play because of my signature.

Honestly, mate, if your disc if matching your druid, your druid is actually fucking aweful, and it would be great if you could supply a parse.

What I've gathered from your post: you know nothing about priests, you don't play a priest, and you're probably just trolling. Have a good day.

But, since I might lose credibility in the eyes of you sorts of people, no, I don't want to be OP like Palas, I would like to be competitive, and no, I am not spamming PW:S, I actually can only afford to use it when I pop my trinket or get a Darkglow proc.

I actually hate people like you. It's really, really hard not to be aggressive when people who play decent classes just say "lol your fine blizz will fix give them data LOL ur such whiner stop spa,ming shield".

Actually, I do play a priest. Did Tier 11 content with it, back in the beginning of Cata when it was "fucking awful" and still did good. My raid group needed a Battle Rez when our resto druid at the time quit. I PVP with Disc now mostly. My Resto druid is actually doing quite well, believe it or not. So is our Disc Priest. I won't supply a parse until you do so. I'm not trolling, I'm trying to be helpful. Priests are competitive. I want to see gear, or a parse before I believe they're complete shit. Yes, she had problems in heroics when she was in quest greens. She had to stop and drink every other fight, much like every other healer who wasn't geared. Now she can go through an entire heroic without drinking. Much like my resto druid.

If you're having problems, most likely not being able to use a bubble without popping a trinket or getting a proc, then you're either not geared, gemmed, or reforged correctly. Spirit is king for right now. We're nowhere near the "cap" for spirit at this point. Try adjusting your gear and playstyle a little bit before you start going on forums complaining. You're making it sound like priest is completely unplayable. Talking about other Resto classes as "decent" compared to your Priest. I don't see that as the case.

So wait, you won't supply a parse to backup your claim, but you call someone else fucking awful and demand a parse? Maybe the Druid isn't the awful one.

But I am sure you don't see the hypocrisy in your statements

The OP is the one claiming that disc priests are underpowered, it's his job to provide data proving his claim. You seem to think Rodin is just trying to troll or be rude, but he's actually trying to help. Maybe the OP is doing something wrong and could use some advice.

He's also true when he says this kind of thread is completely useless. It's easy to claim your class is underpowered, but without proof or data it's worthless.

Originally Posted by Sahugani

PS: If you detect ANY irony or sarcasm in this post AT ALL, please report it to [email protected]

The OP is the one claiming that disc priests are underpowered, it's his job to provide data proving his claim. You seem to think Rodin is just trying to troll or be rude, but he's actually trying to help. Maybe the OP is doing something wrong and could use some advice.

He's also true when he says this kind of thread is completely useless. It's easy to claim your class is underpowered, but without proof or data it's worthless.

Actually, I do play a priest. Did Tier 11 content with it, back in the beginning of Cata when it was "fucking awful" and still did good. My raid group needed a Battle Rez when our resto druid at the time quit. I PVP with Disc now mostly. My Resto druid is actually doing quite well, believe it or not. So is our Disc Priest. I won't supply a parse until you do so. I'm not trolling, I'm trying to be helpful. Priests are competitive. I want to see gear, or a parse before I believe they're complete shit. Yes, she had problems in heroics when she was in quest greens. She had to stop and drink every other fight, much like every other healer who wasn't geared. Now she can go through an entire heroic without drinking. Much like my resto druid.

If you're having problems, most likely not being able to use a bubble without popping a trinket or getting a proc, then you're either not geared, gemmed, or reforged correctly. Spirit is king for right now. We're nowhere near the "cap" for spirit at this point. Try adjusting your gear and playstyle a little bit before you start going on forums complaining. You're making it sound like priest is completely unplayable. Talking about other Resto classes as "decent" compared to your Priest. I don't see that as the case.

Can't see any disc myself.
It SHOULD be an even spread. There will always be a top class, but not one not even worth taking.

Just incase you havn't.
You say, "if you're having problems... etc" as if I am the only one.

Priests are underpowered.

Definition being, compared to every other class, we can stack spirit all day, and we still won't get the regen requires to last in a fight without stopping, and we don't get nearly the throughput.
Sure, we have mitigation, which is great, but the gap is so great it is really not worth bringing a disc.

"I'm sorry, but I can't hear you over the sound of how bad ass my discipline priest looks."

Also, another thing I've noticed during the natural progression of raids. Yes, while learning raiding mechanics, most raid healers will always come out on top. Leaving the people who are usually in charge of the tanks a few thousand HPS behind. But as the life of the raid goes on, and the raid gets more geared, and comfortable with the mechanics, the tank healers will pull ahead. This is because there's a lot less raid damage going out, which means most raid healers start showing lower HPS, even with better gear. The tanks will always be taking damage, and if you factor in absorbs with Disc Priests, they will usually be on top simply because they can PREVENT damage before it happens. If you feel your healing isn't as good as a "raid healer's" is, that's because it's the natural order of things right now. Wait until the end of the tier to make the comparison.

The OP is the one claiming that disc priests are underpowered, it's his job to provide data proving his claim. You seem to think Rodin is just trying to troll or be rude, but he's actually trying to help. Maybe the OP is doing something wrong and could use some advice.

He's also true when he says this kind of thread is completely useless. It's easy to claim your class is underpowered, but without proof or data it's worthless.

Please look at the WOL, and check the forums for some of Kaels threads. He puts it a lot better than me, with math, to.
The fact disc is underpowered is not in question, it is fact.

"I'm sorry, but I can't hear you over the sound of how bad ass my discipline priest looks."

Actually, he's right. You're wrong. From what I've been reading, it's a bunch of whining, without any support. It's more like you're complaining that your class isn't OP like Holy Paladins are.

It IS the customers job to collect data, if you want to support you claim on the forums. To be completely honest, the Discipline Priest in my raid group heals on par with my resto druid in pre-raid gear. She sees nothing wrong with it, and she plays the class.

Also, I noticed that your sig says you play a Discipline Priest. Are you spamming bubbles on everybody? If you are, I'm fairly sure I see the problem.

Point is, you DO need data. At least on these forums. We will help you, but we also don't like listening to people complaining for no reason.

...I really don't understand why it should be up to players to collect data for Blizzard.

Also, another thing I've noticed during the natural progression of raids. Yes, while learning raiding mechanics, most raid healers will always come out on top. Leaving the people who are usually in charge of the tanks a few thousand HPS behind. But as the life of the raid goes on, and the raid gets more geared, and comfortable with the mechanics, the tank healers will pull ahead. This is because there's a lot less raid damage going out, which means most raid healers start showing lower HPS, even with better gear. The tanks will always be taking damage, and if you factor in absorbs with Disc Priests, they will usually be on top simply because they can PREVENT damage before it happens. If you feel your healing isn't as good as a "raid healer's" is, that's because it's the natural order of things right now. Wait until the end of the tier to make the comparison.

Are you just going to ignore the WOL then?
Discs arn't even being TAKEN as tank healers or anything. There is no point. I don't want to wait until the end of the tier, lacking any mana at all, or lacking any throughput. I am fine with my utility, more than happy with it, but the regen and actually healing won't get any better.

"I'm sorry, but I can't hear you over the sound of how bad ass my discipline priest looks."

Jesus dude....You're not proving anything. That's world of logs. Welcome to looking at the 10 most geared healers on the most OP class at the time.

You're looking at the race for World First, here's how that goes:

1 day to 1st week after expansion: Raid guilds spend 24/7 leveling as many toons to 90 as they can and gearing them up.
Raid Releases: They stack nothing but the most unbalanced OP classes to plow through content.

You haven't proven that priests are underpowered. You have, however, proven that Mistweaver monks are OP.

It's things like this that make me want to punch a wall.
I love World Of Warcraft, and I love the priest class, in particular disc.
I want to play. I just want to be competitive. Which is why I am fucking sick of it.
Do you have anything better to do?
And before you ask, no, I don't, I have done my dailies I need to do, sorted my profession cooldowns, and other than that I just don't want to play because I feel so crap about my spec.
"inb4 'no one is forcing you'"

---------- Post added 2012-10-07 at 01:39 AM ----------

Originally Posted by Rodin

Jesus dude....You're not proving anything. That's world of logs. Welcome to looking at the 10 most geared healers on the most OP class at the time.

You're looking at the race for World First, here's how that goes:

1 day to 1st week after expansion: Raid guilds spend 24/7 leveling as many toons to 90 as they can and gearing them up.
Raid Releases: They stack nothing but the most unbalanced OP classes to plow through content.

You haven't proven that priests are underpowered. You have, however, proven that Mistweaver monks are OP.

Whatever.
Go play a disc priest at 90 (and this goes to everyone saying "stop QQing"), go do a raid, or a dungeon, or a challenge mode in full 463 with a few crafted epics, with everything geared towards spirit, and tell me that it feels fun. Tell me that your regen is fine. Tell me that your throughput is fine. Tell me that your mechanics arn't clunky. I am no good at maths and such, so I am really not good at presenting that information (and I don't have to, since as I said, plenty of people have done so), so all I can do is say what I, and pretty much every other disc/holy priest is thinking right now.
I'm frustrated.

"I'm sorry, but I can't hear you over the sound of how bad ass my discipline priest looks."