Well i would tend to agree that NS may well give the guys a kick in the butt when it comes to cleaning, though how many continue learning after they leave and how many have the interest and motivation to be fully independent is another matter.

I have been married almost 10 years, and I have never asked my wife to cook for me, are even make me a coffee, because she couldn't do it, to how i want it, without me teaching her.

10 years of army life, certainly makes one independent and actually hard to live up too. what maybe clean to you maybe filthy to me. Standards of hygiene are also very different to different people.

I shared a home with several women when i was 30 and i can honestly tell you, that independence, means different things to different people. Hygiene and household chores are the same all about learning and yet everyone doesn't have the interest if they are financially independent.

I know many guys from Iran that are very very good cooks and hygiene is top class too.

So i think independence only gives us the right to be free from doing the things we dislike doing.

Many male chauvinist are not independent, neither are sadomasochists'

What I am saying is that pleasure can be taken to specific levels, like cooking and cleaning and if we are financially independent we can choose to spend more time doing the pleasure thingy, self indulgence, though you cannot if you have no skill or motivation at all.

Not sure if i make sense here, but it doesn't matter where one lives, but it matters to take an interest in learning everything to be fully independent, to specific standards.

Would you believe that some people in the UK still have baths and no showers and live in the dark ages of bathing once a week....Culture and customs rule....to break away from the norm, one needs worldly experience with in depth cultural understanding to understand customs, and political views.

For me to live in a Muslim Country, I would be expected to adapt to Muslim laws, if i was a woman, I would also have to respect those laws. Freedom of expression and independence is controlled in many ways, not only by parents and society in general.

I still see a great deal of male chauvinism in UK, where a wife must be a wife, stay home and do the chores, while hubby goes to work and go out to the pub, in the working class areas.

ksl wrote:Well i would tend to agree that NS may well give the guys a kick in the butt when it comes to cleaning, though how many continue learning after they leave and how many have the interest and motivation to be fully independent is another matter.

I have been married almost 10 years, and I have never asked my wife to cook for me, are even make me a coffee, because she couldn't do it, to how i want it, without me teaching her.

10 years of army life, certainly makes one independent and actually hard to live up too. what maybe clean to you maybe filthy to me. Standards of hygiene are also very different to different people.

I shared a home with several women when i was 30 and i can honestly tell you, that independence, means different things to different people. Hygiene and household chores are the same all about learning and yet everyone doesn't have the interest if they are financially independent.

I know many guys from Iran that are very very good cooks and hygiene is top class too.

So i think independence only gives us the right to be free from doing the things we dislike doing.

Many male chauvinist are not independent, neither are sadomasochists'

What I am saying is that pleasure can be taken to specific levels, like cooking and cleaning and if we are financially independent we can choose to spend more time doing the pleasure thingy, self indulgence, though you cannot if you have no skill or motivation at all.

Not sure if i make sense here, but it doesn't matter where one lives, but it matters to take an interest in learning everything to be fully independent, to specific standards.

Would you believe that some people in the UK still have baths and no showers and live in the dark ages of bathing once a week....Culture and customs rule....to break away from the norm, one needs worldly experience with in depth cultural understanding to understand customs, and political views.

For me to live in a Muslim Country, I would be expected to adapt to Muslim laws, if i was a woman, I would also have to respect those laws. Freedom of expression and independence is controlled in many ways, not only by parents and society in general.

I still see a great deal of male chauvinism in UK, where a wife must be a wife, stay home and do the chores, while hubby goes to work and go out to the pub, in the working class areas.