Pointy....no need to feel bad. I think what you are describing is what most single women have experienced at some point in their life. That is - needing to bitch about the frustration/defeat they feel when they are single and actually OPEN to having a relationship if the right person were to come along but the right person doesn't seem to be coming around! Gah! Prior to meeting my husband this is exactly how I felt and of course all of the people in my life would say 'it will happen' or 'don't worry, that person will come along as soon as you stop looking' or some other variation. I too found it immensely frustrating because I was already down about it myself. However, then I started thinking about the people who were actually saying these things to me rather than their phrases just being cliche- you and Anna are right they didn't know the future, but they did know ME very well and could easily list all of the reasons THEY liked me. I think they were saying all of those things because 1. they hated to see me beating myself up and 2. they could see my good qualities and what I would bring to a relationship so they TRULY FELT that I would meet a good match one day. Does this make sense? When I started thinking about their comments in this way I became significantly less frustrated with them. Instead of feeling dismissed when someone said 'oh don't worry it will happen' I felt complimented because they felt that I was a good person and bound to find a good match. That said, if it really does continue to bother you then i think that it is best to be upfront and tell friends how you feel about their comments. Especially if they are very close to you. Sometimes it helps just to say 'I need to vent/get something out without you saying it'll be okay and here is what is bothering me'

Interestingly enough I never took offense to "you haven't found the right one yet" and never took it as the "right one" would be the one who is needed to complete me. I thought that people made reference to the right one as being someone who does offer companionship and does fill an emotional need WITHOUT turning into your everything - at least in healthy relationships. I think that you are right Anna that a relationship partner cannot be your everything and that all of the other things you mention are important but I can't say that my relationship doesn't fill a hole or a missing part. That is not true of me. I question: why would I look for a partner if it did not fill a need or a gap? I think that we do have a NEED to feel connected and often times when we are grown - family and friends can partially fill this need but a romantic relationship does something over and above.

Agreed on hating "you haven't found the right one yet." My life is not about a quest for "the right one." That would be putting someone on a pedestal and expecting some perfect dreamboat of a man with no flaws or personal crap. And I hate when people say "I know that something good will happen for you." If I'm down, I want to snap "How do you know?! You can't see the future, you don't know!"

My life is about having great friends and family, being a creative writer, challenging myself physically and mentally, learning new things every day, wanting to be fulfilled in my career, and enjoying my life. A "special someone" is a bonus, but shouldn't be filling a hole or a missing part in my life.

Sorry, just realised that in my cranky-knickers post of last night it sounded like I was making an attack on you guys, which wasn't the case at all. I'm grateful for your input as I know the peeps in here are slightly more clued up than most people I encounter in my day-to-day! I certainly have no problems with those coupled-up Busties posting to give their advice or support, and I was just genuinely curious to know if it was the case that a lot of the other sinlges in here found themselves being asked on dates etc on the regular. I'm feeling a little ashamed now, sorry!

It's just that the stock responses that I get from anyone in real life when I mention being pissed off at my single status are either "it'll happen when you least expect it!" or "you have to get pro-active, put yourself out there more". Which seem to kind of contradict one another somewhat! I know people are really just grasping for something to say, it's a bit like saying "don't worry, you'll do brilliantly!" to someone with a big exam coming up, I guess, even though you have no way of knowing how theyll do! But it does get a bit annoying from time to time. But I suspect my annoyance has more to do with my own shit than the people talking to me, they do mean well after all!

So again, sorry one and all for coming across as such a foot-stomping tantrum-thrower - perhaps that is a clue as to why I am perpetually single!

See, the thing that bothers me is this attitude that everyone has of "that special someone is out there, you will meet him", which, by the way, is almost always said to me by people with very little experience of ever being single. How do they know this? What if there isn't anyone out there for me? It's a platitude, and a particularly annoying one at that. You can't see the future, no-one can.

QUOTE(candycane_girl @ Nov 25 2009, 08:09 PM)

persi, I know that you're asking pointy but personally I'm not annoyed by the presence of people with a SO in this thread. I'd rather get advice from someone who is in a good relationship than from someone who is single and apparently doesn't have a clue how to meet people either.

Word, ladies. This is exactly how I feel, on both accounts. TPB, I hate when people say that to me! It's so condescending! It just drives me crazy. You know what? Maybe he isn't out there and maybe I'll just have to deal with that. Whatever. Every day I realize that as long as I have the love of my cats I'm good to go. I know it sounds weird and odd and pathetic but seriously - those little buggers adore me and never, ever give me drama. That's enough for me right now. Not saying I'll never date again but right now it's just not in the cards for me, and someone telling me that "I'll meet that special someone when I least expect it" just makes me want to punch that person. Gah.

And Candy - I totally agree with you as well. I'd rather get advice from someone in a successful relationship than someone who doesn't have a clue what they're doing (like me). I tend to be clueless a lot of the time. It's sad, really.

See, the thing that bothers me is this attitude that everyone has of "that special someone is out there, you will meet him", which, by the way, is almost always said to me by people with very little experience of ever being single. How do they know this? What if there isn't anyone out there for me? It's a platitude, and a particularly annoying one at that. You can't see the future, no-one can.

Look, Pointy, I know you're cranky, but there are six & a half billion people on this planet. Six & a half BILLION. In the UK alone, there are 61,399,118 people. Even with half that number being other women, a chunk being kids & elderlies, & a chunk already attached or gay? That is still a whole lot of single men to choose from. I don't think it's a platitude to say that one of that staggeringly large number of potential mates could possibly be a future boyfriend for you. I may not be able to predict the future, but I do know when the goods are odd & the odds are good.

I was extensively single throughout my teens/twenties. Solidly single. As a teen, I grew up in a place where there quite simply wasn't a man I'd have bothered with. Then I moved & started Dateapalooza '94. I stayed single, though. Part of it was the fact that I'm picky, part was my job, & part was by choice. I didn't feel the need for a boyfriend & none of the guys I was meeting were guys that I wanted for a boyfriend. I was single for five whole years. I had a boyfriend from 24-26 that ended badly, I met a potential paramour at 27 that turned out to be a douche, so I knocked about another couple years. J landed in my lap, he was just a bad deal all around that I wasted a year on. So that means I was pretty much single for seven/eight years. So I do know from being single.

Look, I'm not gonna lie: I lucked into HB. LUCKED. I wasn't in the greatest headspace when we first met, the guy I'd been seeing was my first foray back into the boyfriend world & as I said, was a bad deal. Meeting HB for the first time threw me for a loop. The "what-the-fuck-am-I-doing-dicking-around-with-this-jackass-when-I-could-be-with-somebody-hell-anybody-a-lot-better" loop. So I broke up with J & took two years to get my shit together & date around enough to know for sure what I did/didn't want. And when poor HB opened the front door, I all but jumped his bones right then & there. Within six hours I'd set upon making him mine whether he liked it or not.

QUOTE

Also, it's interesting to read everyone here talking about how they aren't dating because they just don't feel up to it at the minute etc. Is no-one else, like me, simply not dating because they never meet anyone they are even remotely interested in? I can't remember the last time someone asked me out who wasn't one of the customers in the bars where I've worked, (and they really don't count because they will simply hit on anything that moves).

We have a lot of newly single gals up in here, I think that's why there are so many people taking some me time right now.

QUOTE

I'm just despairing of ever being happy and in love and having that kind of togetherness with someone, and it sucks because I crave it so much.

In this you are not alone. I well imagine that a huge portion of the world's art, literature, music, etc was created by somebody that just wanted a little love. It's the human condition.

--------------------

"You're cute, like a velvet glove cast in iron. And like a gas chamber, a real fun gal."

persi, I know that you're asking pointy but personally I'm not annoyed by the presence of people with a SO in this thread. I'd rather get advice from someone who is in a good relationship than from someone who is single and apparently doesn't have a clue how to meet people either.

The problem, of course, is that there isn't any magic answer as to how to meet someone and that a lot of people really do meet their SO by chance. I only have one friend who met her now husband online. Everyone else I know who is in a relationship met the person by chance; in school, at the library (in the case of my parents), at a club, in their apartment building, through a friend of a friend, etc.

So while you may not be able to provide advice on how to meet people, you can probably provide a few pointers on what to do once someone is in a relationship. Just my two cents.

pointybird, are you annoyed by non-single people posting in this thread? I apologise if I'm out of line - I appreciate that it can be very annoying when coupled up people give you patronising advice, when the truth is that most of us just got lucky.

--------------------

“Logic is the art of going wrong with confidence.”Morris Kline (mathematician, author) 1908-1992

See, the thing that bothers me is this attitude that everyone has of "that special someone is out there, you will meet him", which, by the way, is almost always said to me by people with very little experience of ever being single. How do they know this? What if there isn't anyone out there for me? It's a platitude, and a particularly annoying one at that. You can't see the future, no-one can.

Also, it's interesting to read everyone here talking about how they aren't dating because they just don't feel up to it at the minute etc. Is no-one else, like me, simply not dating because they never meet anyone they are even remotely interested in? I can't remember the last time someone asked me out who wasn't one of the customers in the bars where I've worked, (and they really don't count because they will simply hit on anything that moves). Maybe it's just because I'm British and we don't really go in for "dating" in the same way as such - do you gals in the US simply have men asking you out all the time? And it's not even like I could be asking men out, I just never meet guys who are single and who I'd even want to be in a date type situation with. (Not that I'd actually ask someone out anyway, as I'm pretty cripplingly shy around men that I'm attracted to, unless I'm drunk, which throws up new issues of its own!) I'm just despairing of ever being happy and in love and having that kind of togetherness with someone, and it sucks because I crave it so much.

So, you don't want to objectify people by practicing your getting to know you skills, but you want to trick them with a phony "persona", a "specific kind of white lie" that pretty much guarantees that you're a friggin' sociopath?

You've made me see that I wasn't being clear. Those were lines sharing my frustration was the downside of dating. Ways of looking at the dating process that gives me permission not to risk it, defining it as horrible. I don't want to trick people. I don't have a different persona when meeting people for dates. I don't want to create one. It would be the kind of white lie that is a terrible way of starting any kind of relationship.

The post was more an exploration of why I've not considered trying to date for a few months. Venting my frustration as a single with one of the options open to me: dating.

However, if I'm honest, I'm probably just scared of risking my heart, but my head is providing lots of handy intellectual excuses for not going out and giving it a go.

AP, please tell me where you see the negativity. Believe me, I know that it's there I'm just not exactly sure where, although I know it comes through in my self-esteem. I just wonder how it comes out in other ways. I guess I would like to know how someone else sees me.

It's really frustrating because I usually feel like I'm fine and yet it's others who point out to me how down I am on myself. It actually took therapy for me to realize that and it was my psychologist who had to wake me up and get me to look at my accomplishments and stop comparing myself for others. I still do it though. Take last week for example. I received a paper back and I got 80% on it. Pretty good for university, especially when they tell us all the time that 67% is average. But then I look over at my friend and see that she got 90% and I feel like I'm not good enough.

I think a lot of the reason I put myself down is due to my weight. Maybe there's some subconscious part of me that thinks that as long as I'm at this weight then I don't deserve to have any guys looking at me. I know that life does not become perfect when I lose weight but I look at myself 5 years ago and I was so happy! I felt like I had accomplished something and more importantly, I was really happy with how I looked which, of course, gave me confidence. And I'm sure anyone reading this would think "Then go lose the weight!" I don't know why I haven't. I keep saying I will and then I go and eat a cheeseburger. I really would like to talk to a therapist about this because I think there's some kind of psychological issue that is holding me back.

Anyway, sorry for going on and on, I think most of this would belong more in the depression thread.

Hi Rogue, I experienced success with online dating as well (lavalife) and now I am married. I agree with Ketto - there is a lot of weeding out to be done and you can get a lot of ridiculous messages but it is worth a shot.

When I joined I was feeling as though there were not a lot of *good* options in my life. Like you said, the guys I was meeting in my real life were not really the ones that I wanted to be with/should be choosing for something long term. Online it felt like i was being approached with more options and therefore could be more picky about who to let in and who not to. I took a casual approach to dating...no expectations good or bad going into a date...just to have fun and meet a new person. After some fun/casual dates that really didn't turn into much I knew more about what I was looking for and who would be a GOOD match for me - rather than just an okay match.

In the new year I might look around. Has anyone had any experience with Plenty of Fish? I've heard it's good (my stepsister met her husband online there) and I've heard it's awful. Dating sites are about the only way I can think of to meet men, coming from my past history of never meeting guys in real life situations.

*hand up* I met paperboy on POF last September and now we live together. The only reason he went on POF is because his friend had met his girlfriend from there. However, I was on there 9 months before we started chatting and then it turned out we'd taken a university class together in 04/05. I remembered him but he didn't remember me.

Before I met paperboy, I met a LOT of jerks and you have to weed through a lot of ridiculous messages, but it's kind of fun too. I tried dating quite a few guys from the site (plus a few hook ups) but no one came close to what I was looking for before paperboy.

Thanks, Rogue, I just wanted to offer some encouragement. Nobody wants to think, "I'm going to die alone & my cats will feast upon my remains", but the dating world can be so discouraging at times.

Honestly, I do not think enough can be said for "alone time". It's a really, really, really good thing. If you're not ready to be out there, then by all means, don't force yourself to. Ya'll know your own hearts & needs, when you're ready to try again, I trust that you will.

QUOTE(candycane_girl @ Nov 23 2009, 09:06 PM)

AP, I know that it's okay to date around, what I'm talking about are those women who are so desperate that you can feel it. It oozes out of them and taints what could otherwise be a fun date because you know that they aren't looking at a guy as Mr. Fun Date they are looking at him as Potential Husband. They end up getting so caught up in finding "the one" that they can't just let go and allow themselves to naturally meet someone. I do not want to be that girl.

Ah, now I know what you mean, sorry. I have a friend of a friend that is like that, but she's pushing forty & is feeling that biological clock voodoo (Mine's digital & runs on a potato, so no worries) & it is fucking up her love life. She goes into every date thinking, "Is this the ONE? He could be the ONE. GOD, I HOPE he's the ONE." And the guys run for the fucking hills.

You're young & fresh off a breakup, CC_G, you certainly are not & I doubt that you ever would be "that girl".

QUOTE

I don't really know how to put myself out there because I mean really, where do you meet guys? I'm not meeting anyone at school because I'm at least 5 years older than everyone else. I haven't gone out to shows in a while but I never really met guys there either. I don't know, I've just never been the kind of girl who has met guys in random situations.

This? I cannot answer. As somebody loves to point out to me, not everybody is like me. The second I made my grand entrance into this world I was charming people left & right. I'm gregarious & outgoing & I meet people everywhere. Hell, I met HB on a date with my bf at the time at a picnic.

And again, you rock a LOT of negativity, CC_G. Until you've got a better hold on why you put yourself down so frequently, it's probably better that you're flying solo.

HCBeck? I hope you were having a bad day yesterday or something because if not? You? Are a straight-up hot fucking mess that quite frankly, scares the ever-living shit out of me. That underlying tone of resentment & entitlement? You are putting some seriously bad fuckin' juju into the universe, man & it doesn't surprise me at all that you don't date much.

QUOTE(hcbeck @ Nov 23 2009, 05:44 AM)

I've always preferred the company of women. I'm not sold on many of the aspects of being a 'man.'

Okay. But if you're interested in adult relationships with heterosexual women, you don't have much choice, do you? We're none too keen on boys for the most part.

There is no one definition of being a "man". It's not all chest-thumping, macho, retardo bullshit. What is it that makes being a "man" (by your definition) so unappealing? Were you/are you perhaps bullied/made to feel inferior by so called "men"?

People cannot read minds, HCB. Women? Are not psychic, no matter what anybody says about "feminine intuition". If you aren't putting it out there that you're interested, how is a person supposed to know what it is you want? And putting it out there correctly, I might add. There are hardwired biological cues as well as more societal ones that can make or break a potential match. I've met many a man that seemed nice enough as an acquaintance, but that made me uncomfortable enough on a gut level that I kept them two arm lengths away from me at all times & that I would NEVER consider dating. It was pure, primal instinct along the lines of, "That boy ain't right."

QUOTE

Dating shouldn't be about making plans for the rest of our lives together, but just working out if I want to see them one more time.

I note you use the word "I" here. Relationships are not about "I", they are about "we". Do you even care if she wants to see you again? It's a two way street, dude.

But, no, you shouldn't be picking out china patterns on a first date. First dates are about, "Hi. Let me show you some good things about me & I'll let you show me some good things about you. If enough of those good things work, we can try again & see what happens. Maybe down the road we might move in together, get married, rub fuck parts & have a baby or whatever." There's no hard & fast of course, sometimes it takes less/more time depending upon the connection made. Or NOT made.

QUOTE

A constant excuse I give myself: I want to learn about dating, but I don't want to objectify people by using them for practice.

QUOTE

How can I learn how to hide what I need to hide to play the mating game? All truth all the time doesn't work well.

QUOTE

All I need is to do is work out a way of coming up with a persona that looks like a lover instead of a friend. A specific kind of white lie.

So, you don't want to objectify people by practicing your getting to know you skills, but you want to trick them with a phony "persona", a "specific kind of white lie" that pretty much guarantees that you're a friggin' sociopath? How can you ride both the high horse & the low at the same time(That's gotta be murder on the 'nads!)? With that kind of attitude, you might as well take one of those lame-ass seduction courses or buy one of those "How to Date Hot Chicks" books & see how far they get you.

Hehe, persi, I didn't mean to come off as dramatic when I said that. It's just that the men I have dated (from age thirteen onward) have all been over-the-top crazy. Most recent was a very insecure man who I allowed to emotionally and verbally abuse me for two years (who always made things out to be bigger than they were and got offended over everything), before him was a pathological liar and cheater, and before him was a man who always wanted me to feel second rate or like I had something to be worried about (ie: him leaving me). It was weird. I mean, yes, it's my fault for putting up with it, of course, but those were the three major relationships in my life. I'm a pretty simple girl, I'm high maintenence only in the sense that I always like to look my best when I'm out in public, but other than that you can take me anywhere. I'l try anything. I think I'm fun and funny and a good person to have around, but these men are insane! Every one I meet has some sort of complex.

I'm also not one to just find men in random locations either - I think that's been played up by Hollywood. It's not for my lack of trying though. I always notice men checking me out and I smile and look inviting but they never approach me. I did meet a guy on the bus when I was travelling to visit my family back in June - I gave him my card, he e-mailed me, I e-mailed him back but nothing ever came of it. Sad, because he was really hot too. He told my stepsister (who came to pick me up that evening) that we had been "fucking one another with our eyes" the whole time on the bus. Damn. I shouldn't have thought about him. *sighs*

In the new year I might look around. Has anyone had any experience with Plenty of Fish? I've heard it's good (my stepsister met her husband online there) and I've heard it's awful. Dating sites are about the only way I can think of to meet men, coming from my past history of never meeting guys in real life situations.

Damn, there was a really good article I wanted to link to but that website's server is down!

Cc_girl, all the men I've dated have either been friends of friends (or housemates, brothers etc) or people I knew through a common interest, like choir. I like getting to know someone before dating them (and getting some background information so that I don't jump into a trainwreck). Assuming you're looking for someone your own age, I'm sure some of your friends from school must have hot older brothers/cousins/workmates/friends from band camp (though I am entirely in favour of internet dating, and also agree with you that it's a very good idea to take some time to get over your break-up).

Um, rogue.... 'men are totally and utterly too dramatic' but you've 'resigned yourself to being single for the rest of your life'?

Hcbeck, you're only using people if you go on dates knowing you have no interest in seeing them again. And there's nothing wrong with being a friend first. Are there any of your female friends with whom you'd fancy taking things further?

AP - I met mine about two years before we got together - just one brief conversation (that we both remembered). I dated several other people, one seriously, but when we eventually came back into each other's orbits, I knew. No hesitation, no fear. Well, actually I was terrified once we were actally in a relationship, but I had absolutely no doubts about asking him out.

*relurks*

--------------------

“Logic is the art of going wrong with confidence.”Morris Kline (mathematician, author) 1908-1992

ccg, I feel the same. I've stopped dating because I kept going for nerdy guys who I liked in a platonic way rather than having the guts to approach someone who I found hot but felt was out of my league, or would think of me as a dork. I felt happy when hanging out with a guy friend of mine last night who mentioned how awesome he thought I was, it felt very special and touching.

Online dating has been the way for me, too. You're busy in your life with work or school or friends or other stuff, and can't just run into someone or take time to develop an interest in someone if the opportunity is not there. I've never been the kind of girls who meets guys in random situations, either.

I'd like to be in a relationship, but I'm not going to go after a specific "type." It's not worth it, it's limiting. I know what kind of guys I've been into in the past (nerdy artsy guys), but that feels like a safety zone for me, like friend zone.

QUOTE

rogue, don't get so down on yourself. I've heard a lot of times that people end up falling for someone totally unexpected, someone who doesn't fit into the ideal that they thought they wanted.

AP, I know that it's okay to date around, what I'm talking about are those women who are so desperate that you can feel it. It oozes out of them and taints what could otherwise be a fun date because you know that they aren't looking at a guy as Mr. Fun Date they are looking at him as Potential Husband. They end up getting so caught up in finding "the one" that they can't just let go and allow themselves to naturally meet someone. I do not want to be that girl.

On the other hand, I have had very few dates that haven't resulted from meeting someone on the internet. I don't really know how to put myself out there because I mean really, where do you meet guys? I'm not meeting anyone at school because I'm at least 5 years older than everyone else. I haven't gone out to shows in a while but I never really met guys there either. I don't know, I've just never been the kind of girl who has met guys in random situations.

Either way, right now I really do need to be alone. It has only been about a month since the breakup and I have to admit, for a while there I really thought that I was going to be with him forever. Last night my fuck buddy came over and while it was enjoyable I found myself not feeling into it and at times I was even thinking of the ex. So I think the next two months are just me time.

Rogue, I think there is a difference between not looking and not wanting it. I've been at the "not looking or wanting" and I just totally took myself off the radar. At the time I was busy in University so it was easy to do. It was a great opportunity to get to know myself again and decide what it was I wanted out of life and potentially a partner (some day). It was a nice change because when I wasn't looking but still kind of wanted, I would tend to just date tons of guys and hope something would happen. When I wasn't looking or wanting I was able to give myself attention like never before. It didn't matter if guys at the bar thought I was attractive, I just wanted to look good for me. I took about 10 months completely to myself of not looking, not wanting. Then I went through about a year of not looking, but I'd take something if it came along. I was basically single for 3 years before I met paperboy and I think those 3 years were really important for myself.