Perhaps The Nosebreaker is out of touch with high end play..... dox speed is still an advantage.
He can only comment on 1v1 ladder games as that is 99 percent of what he plays.
But grens destroy a good amount of a wolf pack of dox.... when they push into attack the grens.
The Nosebreaker doesnt want to break a group of fifteen dox into different groups and attack a medium pack of grens from different angles....
The Nosebreaker sees a heavy use of grens by other players in his games.
He agree that the tank is a lot less seen.. Grens also shoot indirectly over a lot of the obsticals that the others cant shoot over.

A speed buff and a vision buff to dox would be a good equalizer to this dox-gren problem..
Or perhaps a jet jump like the Mechwarrior Robots. That way they could clear the obstical and then engage.
While in the air making the dox attackable by aa and fighters

I think the problem in grens vs bolos is that grens are a bit too fast, specifically they can turn around too quickly.
Looking at FA t1 arty was a horrible slow poke, quickly turning around wasn't possible, making them a lot more vulnerable vs tanks.
So maybe reduce the turn speed of grens and either reduce the top speed of grens by 1 or increase bolo top speed by 1. Though it kinda seems like that the gren should not be a bot, as bots are supposed to be fast. In that sense it's kinda weird to have an arty bot in the first place. Arty usually is a slow poke, bots usually are fast.

Could grens turning and acceleration be reduced to give tanks a head start. Keep their top speed the same bc they are bots and suppose to be faster. I like the new grens but something feels off by having an artillery unit (mortar) faster then standard units.

I kind of wish all units were 1.2 to 1.5X faster. That is my solution to everything .

K1s3l I'm not sure Inferno + bolo do counter grens though? I mean grenadier is faster than bolo + more range, so with micro it out-ranges them and kills them loss free. How does adding in even slower and shorter range Inferno change that?

I'll take the bait nosebreaker. I kinda like the dox still. They can be really useful in small groups and harassing everywhere. Lately they're able to shoot bombers down pretty good (thought sometimes its still some kinda of a gamble) so you're able to do way more damage when harassing on spots where the oponnent isn't.

On the grenadiers topic. I don't think they're op however I do think they create this awkward endless kiting gameplay.

You're tanks getting shredded because of the grenadiers so you retreat until you get you're own grenadiers or you're able to bomb em and push back. If not then then you retreat back to your base and you'll able to take care of the grenadiers army with own grenadiers or pelters. you'll push back until you notice that your grenadiers are getting shredded because of tanks and grenadiers combo so you start kiting back again. I've had many times where this goes back and forth for a long time and I don't like that gameplay that much.

The range of the grenadiers is good but the damage is still kinda shitty. They don't pack the punch to do some base damage and thats where the tank comes in I think. However you'll get these kiting back and forth situations as described above which I find kinda I dunno something like boring or lame.

K1s3l I'm not sure Inferno + bolo do counter grens though? I mean grenadier is faster than bolo + more range, so with micro it out-ranges them and kills them loss free. How does adding in even slower and shorter range Inferno change that?

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In early game (with micro) u can counter grenadier with dox, in mid/late (without micro) u can counter grenadier with inferno+bolo. Grenadier good artillery unit, but not op.

K1s3l I'm not sure Inferno + bolo do counter grens though? I mean grenadier is faster than bolo + more range, so with micro it out-ranges them and kills them loss free. How does adding in even slower and shorter range Inferno change that?

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In early game (with micro) u can counter grenadier with dox, in mid/late (without micro) u can counter grenadier with inferno+bolo. Grenadier good artillery unit, but not op.

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Unless you're going Infernodier is there much of a reason to have a mix of vehicle and bots?

K1s3l I'm not sure Inferno + bolo do counter grens though? I mean grenadier is faster than bolo + more range, so with micro it out-ranges them and kills them loss free. How does adding in even slower and shorter range Inferno change that?

Click to expand...

In early game (with micro) u can counter grenadier with dox, in mid/late (without micro) u can counter grenadier with inferno+bolo. Grenadier good artillery unit, but not op.

Click to expand...

Unless you're going Infernodier is there much of a reason to have a mix of vehicle and bots?

K1s3l I'm not sure Inferno + bolo do counter grens though? I mean grenadier is faster than bolo + more range, so with micro it out-ranges them and kills them loss free. How does adding in even slower and shorter range Inferno change that?

Click to expand...

In early game (with micro) u can counter grenadier with dox, in mid/late (without micro) u can counter grenadier with inferno+bolo. Grenadier good artillery unit, but not op.

Click to expand...

Unless you're going Infernodier is there much of a reason to have a mix of vehicle and bots?

Click to expand...

Different system and situations, I dont have universal build.

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I still don't see how you say a tank blob beats grens? Yes grens require some micro (and I state *some* this isn't 'hard' micro lets be clear on that). All you have to do with grens is retreat as the tanks approach. Grens stay in range, tanks all die without getting a shot off. Your statement of 'inferno + bolo beats grens mid game' is ludicrous because if the tanks can't get in range to shoot whilst getting shot at they die. There's no two ways about it.

In the current meta I've almost totally stopped building tanks full stop (AA is useful, infernos frankly are a waste of time as by the time they're useful which is when you're in your opponents base you've won already). Greens + dox + aa tanks + air beat everything else t1 and they're cheap.