A Realm Reborn should be listed as a new game!!

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The place to put this thread would have been under "Site Suggestions", they actually read and respond to it regularly. (might get overlooked over here, since it's not GW2)

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Originally posted by SoaapyOriginally posted by IkedaLOL...ARR isn't even an expansion.It's a patch.Stop crying for it to be called a new game. It isn't. They shouldn't have messed up the first one then they wouldn't have this issue to begin with.Yes, I believe there should be a re-review. But no, this is not a new game so suck it up. It is a PATCH. And for that matter, as it's taken as long as it has, I'm still not holding my breath that this will actually release and not be broken.

So a game that only has about 10% of the original game remaining is only a patch? lol by 10% I mean already existing armor sets

Don't cry about semantics. There isn't a history of launch failures of this size and scope. This is a patch. This is a repair/fix/patch for all the problems in the game.

It is NOT an expansion (which would cost and would add to content).

This is not a launch as the game already exists, characters already exist, world exists. Regardless that the content itself is being fixed, the game exists.

Originally posted by IkedaLOL...ARR isn't even an expansion.It's a patch.Stop crying for it to be called a new game. It isn't. They shouldn't have messed up the first one then they wouldn't have this issue to begin with.Yes, I believe there should be a re-review. But no, this is not a new game so suck it up. It is a PATCH. And for that matter, as it's taken as long as it has, I'm still not holding my breath that this will actually release and not be broken.

I actually agree that ARR should not have a new page, it's just not necessary, and I say that even being a fan of what SE have done with the retooling of the game. It would just create confusion.

I don't agree really though that 'it's just a patch'.... that's doing SE a huge disservice in how they have handled this situation. If this had been SOE their game would have just been stuck on to life support for the next four years and then had a cash shop tacked on to it to milk it dry.

The sheer scale of what SE have done here is far more then 'just a patch'. It is a relaunch.

Don't cry about semantics. There isn't a history of launch failures of this size and scope. This is a patch. This is a repair/fix/patch for all the problems in the game.

It is NOT an expansion (which would cost and would add to content).This is not a launch as the game already exists, characters already exist, world exists. Regardless that the content itself is being fixed, the game exists.

Well, not really. The game doesn't really exist anymore. After it's taken offline it'll never come back. It'll be down for months. In which time they'll be setting up the new servers for the new game client. The characters yeah you got me there lol. But the world doesn't exist that's being deleted also. By world I literally mean the entire in-game world is gone. Not revamped, or added to, completely made a new world from scratch.

Originally posted by SoaapyDon't cry about semantics. There isn't a history of launch failures of this size and scope. This is a patch. This is a repair/fix/patch for all the problems in the game.It is NOT an expansion (which would cost and would add to content).This is not a launch as the game already exists, characters already exist, world exists. Regardless that the content itself is being fixed, the game exists.

Well, not really. The game doesn't really exist anymore. After it's taken offline it'll never come back. It'll be down for months. In which time they'll be setting up the new servers for the new game client. The characters yeah you got me there lol. But the world doesn't exist that's being deleted also. By world I literally mean the entire in-game world is gone. Not revamped, or added to, completely made a new world from scratch.

Ohh cool so it wont have linkshells that do the same thing the same 3 factions, the same classes, the same wait everything is still going to be the SAME except things that needs fixed that they messed up originally. All the rest is guesswork the graphics wouldn't work on the very system they created it for the PS3 so it has to be reworked. They don't get props for that. Ragnarok Online 2 didn't.

No double standerds. It will get re-re-re-reviewed by this site once it is launched. It really doesn't deserve that.

I'm not saying that what SE is doing isn't incredible. It takes something serious to ADMIT that everything they did was completely wrong. It takes BIGGER cahones to say we're going to completely scrap everything we did and start over.

But at the end of the day, what is the delivery platform?

To play ARR, do you need to go buy a new box if you own FFXIV? No.

To play ARR, do you need to buy an expansion box in addition to FFXIV? No.

Do you need to run an updater via FFXIV client? Yes.

I get that the word patch doesn't necessarily cover the scope of what they are doing but it really is just a patch. A massive, awesome, updating patch. But it is what it is.

Originally posted by IkedaAnd don't misunderstand me....I'm not saying that what SE is doing isn't incredible. It takes something serious to ADMIT that everything they did was completely wrong. It takes BIGGER cahones to say we're going to completely scrap everything we did and start over.But at the end of the day, what is the delivery platform?To play ARR, do you need to go buy a new box if you own FFXIV? No.To play ARR, do you need to buy an expansion box in addition to FFXIV? No.Do you need to run an updater via FFXIV client? Yes.I get that the word patch doesn't necessarily cover the scope of what they are doing but it really is just a patch. A massive, awesome, updating patch. But it is what it is.

Originally posted by IkedaAnd don't misunderstand me....I'm not saying that what SE is doing isn't incredible. It takes something serious to ADMIT that everything they did was completely wrong. It takes BIGGER cahones to say we're going to completely scrap everything we did and start over.But at the end of the day, what is the delivery platform?To play ARR, do you need to go buy a new box if you own FFXIV? No.To play ARR, do you need to buy an expansion box in addition to FFXIV? No.Do you need to run an updater via FFXIV client? Yes.I get that the word patch doesn't necessarily cover the scope of what they are doing but it really is just a patch. A massive, awesome, updating patch. But it is what it is.

We agree to disagree The fact that they sacked everybody that worked on FFXIV, and it wasen't even ordinary SE employes but a chinese company that made it. The fact that Square Enix is taking this in there own hands makes a hugh difference! The graphic engine is new, the combat system is new, the crafting system is new, added classes, jobs and races, completly new made world, lvling system is new, the story is new! Hell what isn't new with this game??

And the only reason that it isn't released as a totaly new game is becouse SE feel like they OWE to the players to make up for there earlier failure! They are printing ARR like it's a new game to bring out to the retailers, and the old ones are thrown away. They could just as easily just put Final Fantasy XV at the lable and pissed off every fan out there.. but they didnt! This is a new game!

Seems like they have totaly changed management and done something with the devlopment teams.. we dont know what they mean with "restructed"? Anyhow.. Im happy with so many managers from FFXI! That can only be good ^^

We do, it's in the credits of the game. Team members were shifted around, teams rearranged, new teams formed and some old ones scrapped. The actual people behind the game have not for the most part changed at all. Even the old management has found a place in the new team (former director Komoto is now lead game designer to name an example).

To claim that Chinese made the current game when the credits clearly state every single member of the dev team working from Japan in SE's HQ is behind the catastrophe is the kind of excuse this game does not need or deserve. Three of the people you listed were already making the current game by the way, only their respective duties on the management side changed at best. "Totally changed" my butt.

Using LOL is like saying "my argument sucks but I still want to disagree".

Scenario

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Patches and expansions can't be listed as completely new games, because then one would have to draw a line to somewhere to determine "When is the game updated enough that it ceases to be old game and turns into new game instead?"

EQ1 has undoubtedly changed so much that it's a new game, not the old game released back 1999. But with huge amount of expansions and patches, what was the patch that changed it from the old game it was to the new game it is today? How about EVE Online? Clearly it's wastly different today than it was at lauch date, but when did it turn from old EVE Online to new EVE Online that is a different game? Anarchy Online today is clearly a new game compared to the old Anarchy Online that was horrible bugfest at launch, but where to put the line between the new game and the old game?

Separate forum for expansion/large patch and maybe even separate hype rating are a good thing. But drawing lines when a game has changed so much that it should be called a new game is not possible. The line would end up being one person's opinion, and much of the community would resent it.

Originally posted by OdhelmThe fact that Square Enix is taking this in there own hands makes a hugh difference! The graphic engine is new, the combat system is new, the crafting system is new(simplafied not new), added classes, jobs and races(There are the same races that was had at the begining Making them black does not mean they are a new race.), completly new made world(Just new engine with map shaping to remove copy-pasta terreain that no one has seen or tested.), lvling system is new, the story is new! Hell what isn't new with this game??And the only reason that it isn't released as a totaly new game is becouse SE feel like they OWE to the players to make up for there earlier failure! They are printing ARR like it's a new game to bring out to the retailers, and the old ones are thrown away. They could just as easily just put Final Fantasy XV at the lable and pissed off every fan out there.. but they didnt! This is a new game!I forgot.. the UI is totaly awsome and new to!

Most of what you listed is mostly speculation. The graphics are new because it wouldn't work for the console they made it for? It still has all the same quest arch-types to lvl as it did before.

With the 90% stock drop that made them apologize, they didn't feel like they owed the players they knew if they didn't the wouldn't have a buisness anymore.

I cannot even begin to even think that you are serious about most of your post

WADA WAS IN CONTROL OF THE FIRST FF14 DEVELOPMENT HE STILL IS. ALL FF'S HAVE BEEN CONSIDERED FAILURES IN THE EYES OF SUARE ENIX THEMSELVES.

Wada’s statement indicates that Square recognizes that even its own internal teams have failed to match the high bar set by Final Fantasy VII back in 1997.

Yoshida himself said that they doing this becouse they made some promises to the players that wasen't keept. Is it an apology or that they owe it? Sounds the same to me...

Of course Wada is in controll, his the president of the whole company! Of course he has the finale word but I dont think he's that involed in the development process.. there a lot of other thinks to keep track of in a company like Square Enix if you are the president.

Originally posted by IkedaAnd don't misunderstand me....I'm not saying that what SE is doing isn't incredible. It takes something serious to ADMIT that everything they did was completely wrong. It takes BIGGER cahones to say we're going to completely scrap everything we did and start over.But at the end of the day, what is the delivery platform?To play ARR, do you need to go buy a new box if you own FFXIV? No.To play ARR, do you need to buy an expansion box in addition to FFXIV? No.Do you need to run an updater via FFXIV client? Yes.I get that the word patch doesn't necessarily cover the scope of what they are doing but it really is just a patch. A massive, awesome, updating patch. But it is what it is.

Seems like they have totaly changed management and done something with the devlopment teams.. we dont know what they mean with "restructed"? Anyhow.. Im happy with so many managers from FFXI! That can only be good ^^

Ugh it totally makes me sad that you have to be a racist and say things like "scrapped the entire chinese team"

You do realize the origional design team is the same guys who made Final Fantasy 11?

I agree. The game should get a brand new forum. Keep the old one for archiving purposes. To be more honest, I hope that the team at MMORPG.com is able (hopefully) through contacts; to get access to the Alpha. Even better, maybe they can get an interview set up in regards to a Realm Reborn. If that ends up being the title, I do think it should get a brand new forum, including the reasons listed above.

I would say that close to 100% of the game has "probably" been changed somehow. Tying it to the old forums would make little sense since the majority of the mechanics, gameplay, features, and environment are going to be radically different. I would also say add it to avoid any confusion between the two. Leaving it as is might lead people to believe that the game only got a "moderate" update.

So SE revamps a game they should have never released, but don't want to rename so as to not hurt the franchise and thier reputation? What kind of jedi mind trick is this supposed to be? These aren't the droids your looking for.