July 17, 2011

I was to have been on QVC today to introduce my book, “Prime Time,” about aging and the life cycle....

The network said they got a lot of calls yesterday criticizing me for my opposition to the Vietnam War and threatening to boycott the show if I was allowed to appear.

Bottom line, this has gone on far too long, this spreading of lies about me! None of it is true. NONE OF IT! I love my country. I have never done anything to hurt my country or the men and women who have fought and continue to fight for us.

Big Hollywood has a few quibbles with some of those assertions.

Poor Jane! Getting old... and just wants to sell her book about getting old. We're all getting old, and Jane has always been about capturing — and purveying — the spirit of whatever time she happened to be in. With that mindset, it's hard to understand the depth of feeling some people have about the past.

Her complaints should be a warning to kids tempted to be "cool" in lashing out at their country and playing to the sentiment of the moment. The public has long memories. What ever happened to the Dixie Chicks ?

None of it is true. NONE OF IT! I love my country. I have never done anything to hurt my country or the men and women who have fought and continue to fight for us.

I don't have any animus against Jane for the Vietnam days, but her words aren't true. I'm just a little surprised so many people still remember. Iraq and Afghanistan have helped keep that memory fresh. We still have a lot of collective guilt and anger about how we portrayed our soldiers back then.

She still doesn't get it. No one is mad at her for her opposition to the war. They are mad at her for being a traitor.

That she lives and draws breath is crime enough given the punishment that is supposed to befall traitors. Her insipid mewling about how unfair it all is and her lack of perspective encapsulates the mentality of the left exquisitely. How dare anyone hold another accountable for their actions! That isn't supposed to happen to the beautiful people. There must be some plot afoot.

Her statement is full of lies. Ask the man who was tortured when she passed the note he slipped her to his captors if she has ever done anything to hurt our soldiers. Ask the vets how they felt to see her laughing and giggling while mounting the enemy AA gun. Ask the Vietnamese if that wasn't a huge propaganda victory for them at the time.

You know how you can tell Jane is an idiot? She still hasn't figured out that the smart thing would be an abject apology (sincere or not) for her whole trip to North Vietnam, instead of continuing to try to explain it away as opposition to the war plus two minutes of misjudgment at the AA gun.

Seriously. Imagine if she's offered, in 1985, a "It was completely wrong of me to go to Hanoi during the war, and I deeply apologize to both our armed forces personnel and the American people, and I just hope that in time you can forgive me," adorned only by a large donation to a charity for Vietnam vets.

And she never again tried to defend herself, but merely said, whenever the issue came up again, "I was wrong, I've changed, I've apologized, and I hope people will forgive me."

Sure, some people would still be angry. But, by and large, the issue would be dead.

Instead, she keeps spewing the sort of self-justifying shit you can see here, which hardly looks like a disavowal of her radical past.

I keep picturing Jane in the stands at Atlanta-Fulton County stadium doing the tomahawk chop sideways. The message there was very important. Tomahawk chop up-and-down-- racist and offensive to the aboriginal peoples of the world. Tomahawk chop sideways-- no problem at all. This fine actress and beautiful woman is obviously as stupid as a pallet of bricks.

Last February you posted about Jane Fonda and I commented here about my encounter with her when she was on her way to Hanoi. Jane Fonda doesn't have any inkling about the seriousness of what she did and consequences of her actions.

It's always interesting to see who gets a 2nd chance from the American public and who does not. Those who got a 2nd chance include Bill Clinton, Jesse Jackson, Al Sharpton, and the NBA announcer Al something. Those who did not get a 2nd chance and became pariahs incude Al Campanis, Jimmy The Greek, OJ Simpson, Richard Nixon and I guess Jane Fonda.

I was chastised back in the Woody Allen thread for still holding a grudge against him for sleeping with and then marrying his girlfriend's daughter, after having served as a father figure, as Farrow claimed.

As with Fonda's traitorous activities in Vietnam Nam, I find some things unforgivable, when forgiveness is neither sought nor desired.

They just want my money, and they can go screw.

No, I do not suggest that one must avoid all media people who fall below sainthood. Rather, there are some behaviors too egregious to let the mere passage of time become the equivalent of wiping the slate clean.

When my Navy Patrol squadron was deployed to Subic Bay in the Philippines, we did fairly routine daily patrols over the South China Sea. It was fairly common to locate small rickety boats with dozens or hundreds of Vietnamese refugees trying desperately to escape to Singapore or the Philippines. One of the more popular T-shits had a drawing of a Chinese "junk", with the caption "Winner! Jane Fonda Invitational Refugee Hunt".

Traitor Jane should have had her citizenship revoked while she was in North Vietnam. As far as I'm concerned, she should be expelled even today. I've boycotted everything she has ever done, but she should be tarred and feathered and thrown out.

If Jane Fonda was ever brave, she'd go to every USO tour in the United States and abroad and apologize for being a communist asswipe, over and over again. Let's see if she earns the respect of our armed servicemen and women and veterans.

I think she'll learn a thing or two about democracy and freedom of speech. Enjoy irrelevance, bitch.

Sorry--commented before I clicked on the link as there is a Centralia, Ill., that is a coal-mining town also where a huge explosion killed some 111 miners and also set long burning fires (but nothing like PA's) back in 1947. As a result, because so many children lost their fathers, the nick-name of all Centralia' HS sports teams since the 50s has been the "Orphans." But you're right, the Penn Centralia comparison was better for these purposes..

virgil - huh, I've never heard of the Illinois Centralia. The Pennsylvania Centralia's been a byword in PA for generations of the cost that coal mining exacts on the miners and their neighbors. I have friends who used to indulge in urban spelunking - known to law enforcement as "defiant trespass", but they meant well. They went down to Centralia, but didn't come back with any particularly interesting stories. It's a little alarming that there are *still* people living in that town.

Our inability to kill the Centralia fire complex is an illustration of the limitations of human ingenuity. Cleverness has an end, and will, and courage, and determination all have limits, set by the perversity of material things. Some things, having been done, set loose consequences which cannot be called back.

Ask the residents of Fukushima prefecture about that. Although from what I've heard, the plants' region will be inhabitable long before the Centralia fires go out, it's still a situation which I've heard described by someone in the know as "fucked".

I don't spend any time thinking about Hanoi Jane except when she pushes herself into my consciousness (like now). If she really wanted those memories to go away she'd be wise to retire gracefully and do something private with her life. Wanting to be in the limelight only brings her past misdeeds to mind again. F

"Jane has always been about capturing — and purveying — the spirit of whatever time she happened to be in. With that mindset, it's hard to understand the depth of feeling some people have about the past."

I think this is one of the more profound things I've read on this blog. This is *exactly* it. Jane most certainly did mean to purvey the spirit of the time she was in, and now she represents the time she was in, back then, for a lot of people. They aren't going to forget the war or forget being vilified. For them, at least, it wasn't the current fashion, soon to pass.

And to bring John Kerry into it... the same implacable grudge is held by the same people, even if he's not the first person they think of. But the grudge was real (and well earned) and not in any way something pretended for political expediency.

I am willing to forgive people who said/did stupid things 40+ years ago, unless that thing was putting on a helmut of our enemy (and a brutal enemy at that), and posing, smiling, on a gun used to kill American servicmen.

Some people particapated in anti-war stuff because it was trendy and it also helped you get laid. Those folks I can forgive if they have been good in recent years. Jane.....let's say at least Lindbergh switched sides and helped the US in its war effor in was after once the fighting started in WWII.

As much as I loath Fonda, the comments at her site are even worse in their own way in that they demonstrates all too well the extent of either a) the ignorance about history (or at least large swaths of it) by much of the American public, and/or b) the extent to which the ideological lens one uses to view both history and the present blinds one to reality.

What is it with all of the people on here saying that if she just apologized it would be OK? You don't get to apologize for treason the only punishment is quite clearly defined and justice has yet to be carried out!

Jane Fonda used to be one of my favorite stars. I have not watched anything she did since 1973, when I was in Southeast Asia in the USAF. I am sorry she made the choices she made, but she has to live with them.

"What is it with all of the people on here saying that if she just apologized it would be OK?"

I don't know if it would be okay. What she did can't be undone. But I do think that people would hate her less if she seemed to have some understanding of the magnitude of what she did. Quite clearly she doesn't think she did anything wrong, unwise maybe, but not wrong. And clearly she's surrounded by people who assure her that the anger directed at her is baseless.

I do think there is an element of her catching the heat for all of it, for all the sins of all of her compatriots, which might not be fair, precisely, but it's pretty much how the world works and I can't feel sorry for her in the least.

If instead of whining about the unfairness of it all, if she said she was wrong (not sorry for the fall-out, but wrong) and that her actions made it worse for POWs and she was wrong, and that she deserves the anger and the long memories... I do think that people would hate her less and maybe not bother to call and complain to QVC.

So she is reduced to hawking her wares like so many Star Trek anniversary plates and flowbees. And QVC wants nothing to do with her, how humiliating. I guess being a comsymp eventually does have its downsides.

Synova I will agree with points 1,2 and all of 3 except:I do think that people would hate her less and maybe not bother to call and complain to QVC.A lot of people and I would guess by demographics, a large part of the QVC viewership, do still see her as a traitor.

As a side note I was way to young at the time to know what she was doing at that time, but as I grew older and became more informed of her actions at that time the more I despised her for doing it.

As to the reason another poster made about her not getting prosecuted, because popular opinion and/or the possible violence, public opinion has no place in the justice system. See Casey Anthony (sp?).

What she deserves is to be tried for treason but sadly that will never happen. However, there are other ways to get back at her as she has found out in the intervening years. There’s a lot of veterans and families of veterans that remember what she did. We will never forget and never forgive.

Fonda reminds me a little of Leni Riefenstahl. She'll be shunned the rest of her life and she'll never make good with her detractors. But she'll live to be 100, surrounded by much younger suitors still willing to flatter her.

She and the liberals, progressives, and Democratic Party consider her a patriot. As long as people enable her she will believe she did nothing to hurt the troops fighting the Viet Nam War.

What she does not understand is money. QVC got heat. If she stayed people would go someplace else. QVC made their decision on that. Jane is not as smart as she thinks- sorry she does not think- believes she is.

The wars we are in now brought it all back up again because people are determined not to repeat the treatment of soldiers associated with Viet Nam. Not even the crazy code pinkers and others who crossed the line from time to time (they did some untasteful protest at Walter Reed, IIRC) managed to do so without condemnation from liberals.

And every time someone was thinking "not like last time" last time was accompanied by a mental picture of Jane Fonda.

And then there was John Kerry to bring it all into the present. Even if Jane Fonda was sitting in a darkened room with her fingers in her ears and her eyes squeezed shut going, "La la la la, don't look at me, I'm not here, la la la la," the fact of it is that a person can't talk about Winter Soldier and protests and Senate hearings and throwing medals away without a mental image of Jane Fonda.

She might even be right that had she not taken the photos on the anti-aircraft guns that things would be different. But being sorry you ended up the mental image for a nation's shame isn't anything the least bit like being sorry for causing the pain you caused.

As to the reason another poster made about her not getting prosecuted, because popular opinion and/or the possible violence, public opinion has no place in the justice system. See Casey Anthony (sp?).

Popular opinion was not an issue at the time.

It was a time of civil unrest. Massively. There were race riots (hundreds) and anti-war demonstrations, university takeovers ... The 1971 antiwar demonstrations in DC resulted in 12,000 arrests. People were building and setting bombs (Hi Bill, Barack's friend. {Waves}) Police were "pigs."

I was speculating, as there had to be some rationale behind the pass given to Fonda.

sarge actually had a bet wiv hisself that the very 1stest post would go all hanoi jane an sarge war not disapernted one bit ra ra traitor jane traitor jane sarges little buddy Sgt Maida wuz gona protest the iraqistan war hisself whern tyhe tour was up traitor that he were but the ubbertraitor rumsefeld sent brave Sgt. maida to die in a un uparmored HMMV all so tharraitor commander bunnypants in chief could ring his daddies old buddy sadam's neck fer family honor halliburtons bottom line an the hopeful bringin on of thar rapture and yer still cryin about the hijinks of sum 19 year old hollywood brat's misadventures near 50 year ago? harharharhar excpt yar know it aint funny not one bit

Synova wrote:And then there was John Kerry to bring it all into the present. Even if Jane Fonda was sitting in a darkened room with her fingers in her ears and her eyes squeezed shut going, "La la la la, don't look at me, I'm not here, la la la la," the fact of it is that a person can't talk about Winter Soldier and protests and Senate hearings and throwing medals away without a mental image of Jane Fonda.

And that is what's so funny about the dems/libs trotting out John kerry who was reporting for duty to take on George Bush who they accused of being the equivalent of a draft dodger because he joined the Reservers (and was AWOL, despite meeting all of his requirements)THAT"S who the democrats felt was suitable as their equivalent of a wartime president? Mr. Winter Soldier? Talk about a congnitive disconnect. THere should be a game, called Back To Fonda, and it would work much like Back To Bacon, only you would instead pick any radical out there and see how many steps away they were from Jane Fonda. And John Kerry is literally one step away from Jane Fonda. They're sitting at the same protests for god sakes. To dems/libs John Kerry is the ideal soldier apparently, and Fonda embodies the whole, treasonous dissent is the highest form of patriotism ethos the libs brought out when they began protesting the Iraq war (and forgot when Obama started his kinetic military activities in Libya). Traitorous curs.As for Revenant's suggestion that she should be shot, that might be a bit harsh. My idea is she gets to fly in a plane out of the coutry, And we aim some anti aircraft guns her way.If she gets outside our borders she lives.

Steven said... Seriously. Imagine if she's offered, in 1985, a "It was completely wrong of me to go to Hanoi during the war, and I deeply apologize to both our armed forces personnel and the American people, and I just hope that in time you can forgive me," adorned only by a large donation to a charity for Vietnam vets.

Let Hanoi Jane rot in hell...

Let me compare Fonda to Baez,

- Both went to Hanoi- Baez's orientation was apparently much more Human rights based, she was a Quaker, not Communist, like Fonda's

After the war:Her disquiet at the human-rights violations of communist Vietnam made her increasingly critical of its government and she organized the May 30, 1979, publication, of a full-page advertisement (published in four major U.S. newspapers) in which the communists were described as having created a nightmare, which put her at odds with a large segment of the U.S. left wing, who were uncomfortable criticizing a leftist régime. In a letter of response, Jane Fonda said she was unable to substantiate the "claims" Baez made regarding the atrocities being committed by the Cambodian Khmer Rouge.

When Ted Kennedy died, his fans were outraged that so many people continued to bring up Mary Jo. It cast a shadow over what would have been a celebration of his life. Because he had never really been held accountable for it.

Whomever said that "unless we were in Viet Nam, it's time to let it go" is wrong.

My father was in Viet Nam - and his return, and his life afterwards, was something that I saw and experienced as a child - it was tough to take, knowing that the man who returned was not really "my father" any longer, but a shell of the man he once was.

THe few times he ever really showed any emotion other than "going through the motions" was when he saw Jane Fonda on the TV. While he would simply just change the channel, there were subtle things going on - the clenching of his jaw, the shaking hands, and an anger that seemed to be boiling just below the surface.

The May 30, 1979 NYT ran this article (extract here) about Baez versus the crimes she thought the Vietnamese were committing against their own people, as well as their support for Pol Pot:

Joan Baez Starts Protest On Repression by Hanoi

LOS ANGELES, May 29, 1979 (AP)--Joan Baez and other activists who opposed American involvement in the war in Vietnam began a protest today against alleged violations of the rights of political prisoners by Vietnam.

Baez was a leftist and a Human rights type, but she was consistent in focusing her outrage against oppressive regimes, regardless of their political views.

I think the people that called QVC and threatened to boycott ... said I was a traitor. i don’t know what else they said but I think it is because of theongoing stream of lies about what they think I did in Vietnam—caused harm to POWs etc. This as been circulating since 1999 and is totally false.

In Jane's mind, she is/has been persecuted based on ' lies ' since 1999.