we're not talking about my preferences here. i'm just conveying the conversations i've heard. upgrading independence and north oak to MAX requires additional operating funds (especially true if you leave the local service in place) and that has to come from somewhere.

DaveKCMO wrote:we're not talking about my preferences here. i'm just conveying the conversations i've heard. upgrading independence and north oak to MAX requires additional operating funds (especially true if you leave the local service in place) and that has to come from somewhere.

I would hope local service is scaled back if MAX is implemented north. Do we really need two bus routes on Barry Road today?

Independence Ave I can see the value, but only if MAX is much closer to a true express bus.

The downtown streetcar line is awesome at seamlessly tying together the major downtown districts/attractions, it collapses everything into almost like an elevator ride to different floors of destinations. It can do the same for Midtown and will be great for visitors/leisure riders between Plaza/Downtown. Will be impressive if it can also effectively act as a commuter line, just not optimistic. Would expect an express bus line would complement, not compete - eventually.

With streetcar expansion likely increasing TOD along Main and eventually boosting population, adding a bus express that hits some but not all streetcar stops along Main (that hit crosstown lines) may be justifiable sooner than later, at least for rush hours. The reality is that to bus riders who already have a pass, the streetcar is not really an improvement, it's a leisure service or good for local service once in the target area. But yeah, let's see what final streetcar expansion design and number of stops look like.

Would expect regular bus riders who already have a pass to increase Broadway usage after novelty of streetcar wears off and if considered too slow to get from Waldo/Plaza to downtown for commuters. There needs to be something from Waldo/Bside area to Plaza/downtown. The current 47 Bway line heads East to Blue Ridge.

Tactically: End 47 line to Plaza and create a new line that does current N/S 47 path down Bway and extends down Bside or Wornall to at least 75th (replacing MAX but not MAX branded). Or every other Broadway bus is toggled with a 47 bus and a Waldo bus.

Strategically: Eventually target an express bus along streetcar line that extends to Waldo and up to Barry Rd.

The big need for MAX is to not implement it on N Oak or Independence Ave, but seamlessly extend one or both lines.

Someone should be able to hop on the bus at Barry/N Oak and get off at The Plaza, or vice versa (same for Troost users). This can't be done today without a transfer and MAX seems like the perfect opportunity to start building a spine. Why does a streetcar have to be the only way we get a unified N-S transit line?

after novelty of streetcar wears off and if considered too slow to get from Waldo/Plaza to downtown for commuters

The streetcar will go down Main and the bus down Grand, serving different destinations. That's not novelty, that's usability differences. People will pick what works better for them.

According to Dave MAX will be killed along Main in Midtown, apparently zero bus service. So what does that do to bus along Grand past Crown Center? And there will be a gap for Waldo/Bside riders. How does a Waldo or Bsider get to Midtown and on to downtown? There wouldn't be one to pick.

For bus riders who already have a bus pass, the streetcar is already considered a novelty. I ride the bus regularly and hear chit chat about streetcar often. Fun to checkout and use leisurely/locally but not particularly useful for commute if you already have a bus pass. We'll see how expansion works out.

We are years away from going live nevertheless if streetcar vote even passes. Bus lines will likely change anyway to accommodate streetcar impact. Long term though, ATA should be positioning for an express bus along streetcar line as it should complement, not compete, especially if the express bus extends to Waldo and Barry Rd.

I agree with the popular sentiment on this board that an express bus route from Waldo to the River Markey will still be necessary even after the streetcar extension. Even with that route in place we should STILL add MAX lines to Independence Ave and that stupid Northland route. We should be striving for the MOST. The most routes, the most frequency, the most options, the most efficiency, etc. Removing a transit line and replacing it with another form of transit is NOT multi-modal planning.

beautyfromashes wrote:Don't gum up the streetcar line. If you have to have an express bus line Waldo to Plaza, put it on Broadway.

Well yeah that's also something I've advocated for but apparently there's not enough current ridership along that corridor. I bet ridership would jump if that same corridor had a proper MAX line on it. Just saying...Broadway-Grand MAX to 3rd and Grand/75th and Wornall would bring in the riders to Broadway from Waldo to Westport to the River Market. Just do it planners, it's so damn easy.

please note that kcata considers troost ridership to include MAX and the local #25, since the routes are nearly identical. i suspect, if separated, that main might be #2 right now. regardless, since ridership has dropped across the board not much separates the top three.

earthling wrote:It shows 12th and 19th/Grand as a "major transfer hubs". Does that indicate some kind of enhancements to those stops? More bus shelters maybe?

12th/grand is getting a makeover later this year. the shelter will look like the ones being installed for prospect MAX. 19th will probably get the same a little bit later. both are part of the transit emphasis corridors project.