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"to my (limited) knowledge about nicotinia species is that this does not have any narcotic effects. "

You musn't have much knowledge about this species. Tobacco is perhaps one of the oldest entheogens and is considered to be very sacred amoung many tribes. Several tribes hold it in higher regard to peyote regarding its psychoactive effects. They would smoke several "cigars" of tobacco and fall into a deep narcotic trance state , when they would awaken they would report to the tribe their visions. There are many different rituals sorrounding this plant. I suggest you do a bit more research. Check out "Flesh of the Gods". There are some good essays regarding indigenous peoples use of tobacco in there.

However. N. Sylvestris does NOT contain any of the psychoactive components of rustica and tobaccum.

i dont smoke, but i do have cigars now and then. i get that rush feeling that salvia gives people and i have a sorta wierd light body buzz. i cant even drive if ive had 1 cigar, i feel too weird. totally in control, but buzzy. i love being sensitive to most plants

and smoking it with weed....wow that seriously knocks me on my ass. i cant explain it, but it is very salvia like without the visuals for me.

--------------------The seeds you won't sow are the plants you dont grow.

Yes it is the nicotine (as far as I know, although i'm sure there could be other related alkaloids contributing to the overall effect) that are responsible. Nicotine is in the same chemical family as cocaine and tropane. The way tobacco was traditionally used made it a very powerful hallucinogen and most American smokers have no clue that what they are inhaling everyday is more than just a carcinogenic cash crop, its a very sacred plant that has been held in extremely high regard for ages. Obviously commercial tobacco differs from the traditional tobacco in the fact that it has far more additives and FAR less nicotine. Something odd that I discovered was an interview with Jonathan ott by High Times magazine in which mr. ott describes the effects of pure nicotine intranasal to be nearly identical to that of cocaine. I truely believe that the effects one obtains from this plant vary greatly based on consumption method, amount used, frequency of use, and quality of material.

As far as them eating tobacco I believe there was a preperation called "Ambil" or something along those lines, that was a sort of paste to be consumed. It is held in some tropical fruit and thought to possess great power, supposedly restricted to the shamans.

The rituals varied greatly from tribe to tribe. Some only consumed this material on rare occasion while others consumed on a daily basis. The one constant was that the amount of this highly potent plant consumed was a great sum and contained an extremely large amount of nicotine.

This is good. I believe when one moves into the world of synthetics and habitual use that we sort of forfiet the ability to communicate to plants that speak softly. I use to be very intune and could pick up on the subtle lessons tought by the gentle allies but when my life took a turn and I set down the path of poisons I lost this ability and am no longer as 'in-tune' with the allies. I believe it would take a long period of physical and spiritual fasting to restore my entheogenic awareness. The synthetics raised my expections a lot and the plants dont like it when we are demanding. They don't speak to me as much as they use to for this reason. one must quiet the mind and heart to hear what is to be taught by the allies.

Hey Aneglakya, would you happen to know where I could pick up some seeds to the plant you speak of. What you said is very interesting and since I'm starting a garden, this plant would make a great addition

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The story of life is quicker then the blink of an eye, the story of love is hello, goodbye. - Hendrix

Quote:Aneglakya said:"to my (limited) knowledge about nicotinia species is that this does not have any narcotic effects. "

You musn't have much knowledge about this species. Tobacco is perhaps one of the oldest entheogens and is considered to be very sacred amoung many tribes. Several tribes hold it in higher regard to peyote regarding its psychoactive effects. They would smoke several "cigars" of tobacco and fall into a deep narcotic trance state , when they would awaken they would report to the tribe their visions. There are many different rituals sorrounding this plant. I suggest you do a bit more research. Check out "Flesh of the Gods". There are some good essays regarding indigenous peoples use of tobacco in there.However. N. Sylvestris does NOT contain any of the psychoactive components of rustica and tobaccum.

thats exactly what i was saying. i know about other nicotinia species and I grow three of them myself, have read flesh of the gods, its a good book

You also raise a good point about the true meaning of the word "Narcotic" . It is used way to losely nowadays. Narcotic would traditionally mean any drug causing depression to the cns but you hear it used to describe any illicit drug.

Plants of the Gods is a great book. I have several hundred books on plants, chemistry, ethnobotany, pharmacology, plant lore, and the like. POTG's is my absolute most favorite book. Just because of the amount of knowledge it contains (Ott's pharmacotheon is up there too.). I recommend anyone who is serious about these plants to purchase Plants of the Gods.. Barnes and Noble usually caries this book, look in their Alternative Medicine section.

Shultes also wrote two book before this that are very rare and pricey. I own them both. A Golden Guide: Hallucinogenic Plants. This one is available online at erowid. It's a classic read but you can see the similiar structure of this book is also in POTG's. The Botany and Chemistry of Hallucinogens. This one is a little more in depth , more detailed and has more information regarding his field work. Both excellent books for the collector.

Thanks for the advice on the books. I'm currently reading POTG and am very interested in getting more books on the subject of ethnobotany. So, what you are saying is that the most potent of the nicotiana species is N rustica and N. tobaccum? Isnt N. tobaccum the one we use today in our regular cigarettes? How about N alta (sp?), I have this one growing in my vicinity too.

I tried, however, to smoke a leaf of sylvestra with a friend of mine, we almost perfectly dried it and smoked it in a pipe, it was a very pleasant smoke and gives more the feeling that dip tobacco does than a cigarette containing additives and what-not. THough it wasnt what I expected as what rustica probably is.

--------------------Magic mushrooms are not addictive, the shroomery is!