Nah, Avengers and Captain America made it clear why the heroes follow Cap. His leadership abilities have been presented in a great way. It's just his moves need to be more "super-soldier-y" than they have been so far.

Yeah, but he shows he's a great leader after they decide to follow him. I never understood that. You would think that doubts would he raised about if he has what it takes from people who don't have father issues, seeing as his experience is out of date. But no, his leadership is a gimma, so it doesn't matter much.

Yeah, but he shows he's a great leader after they decide to follow him. I never understood that. You would think that doubts would he raised about if he has what it takes from people who don't have father issues, seeing as his experience is out of date. But no, his leadership is a gimma, so it doesn't matter much.

Cap showed he was a great leader in WW2, which Stark and probably the rest of the team already knew about. His experience wasn't seen as out of date because this was a war, and his specialty is war.

I'm reading this bolded part over and over again, but I don't really understand what you're saying except for the out of date part.

Cap showed he was a great leader in WW2, which Stark and probably the rest of the team already knew about. His experience wasn't seen as out of date because this was a war, and his specialty is war.

I'm reading this bolded part over and over again, but I don't really understand what you're saying except for the out of date part.

Warfare has changed, though. In his time, they didn't have stuff like close-air support, so it stands to reason that someone would have doubts about him being the best man for the job.

Not that Steve isn't, but its a valid, justified concern. And it fits thematically, as Steve has doubts about the modern world, and having someone on the team also having the opinion that he might not be the man for the job would have emphasized that.

But no, they're all believe in him, despite being a standoffish bunch. The damn Hulk listens to him. As does Thor, and what does Thor know about Captain America, or WWII, for that matter.

It makes it all look like the question "what place does Cap have in the world" is all in Steve's head.

Caps a pretty tough character to get right all around. Casting was difficult to begin with but Chris Evans is a great leading man; the costume in TFA was amazing and the one in the Avengers was... serviceable, I guess, but I can tell they're going to step their game up with this next movie.
I think that now that they've got the origins and the giant ensemble movie out of the way they'll be able to have more fun with this next one and really explore the character and what exactly he can do physically.

Yeah, I see Cap as a mix of Blonsky(but better), Achilles from Troy, Jason Bourne, an olympic gymnast, and a the best parkour guy all in one. I hope they find ways to utilize each ability and make it shine on screen.

Warfare has changed, though. In his time, they didn't have stuff like close-air support, so it stands to reason that someone would have doubts about him being the best man for the job.

Not that Steve isn't, but its a valid, justified concern. And it fits thematically, as Steve has doubts about the modern world, and having someone on the team also having the opinion that he might not be the man for the job would have emphasized that.

But no, they're all believe in him, despite being a standoffish bunch. The damn Hulk listens to him. As does Thor, and what does Thor know about Captain America, or WWII, for that matter.

It makes it all look like the question "what place does Cap have in the world" is all in Steve's head.

they still study battle tactics from WWII battles at Westpoint to this day. Technology has changed but warfare has not,...not that much

Warfare has changed, though. In his time, they didn't have stuff like close-air support, so it stands to reason that someone would have doubts about him being the best man for the job.

Not that Steve isn't, but its a valid, justified concern. And it fits thematically, as Steve has doubts about the modern world, and having someone on the team also having the opinion that he might not be the man for the job would have emphasized that.

But no, they're all believe in him, despite being a standoffish bunch. The damn Hulk listens to him. As does Thor, and what does Thor know about Captain America, or WWII, for that matter.

It makes it all look like the question "what place does Cap have in the world" is all in Steve's head.

I think the movie explained why they followed Caps lead at the end. Cap was the only one throughout the film that was thinking war strategy and the only one who attempted to point out and question why Loki let himself be captured so easily. Cap ended up being right on all of that, he was steps ahead of everyone else on military strategy of Loki, even Thor would respect that.

Warfare has changed, though. In his time, they didn't have stuff like close-air support, so it stands to reason that someone would have doubts about him being the best man for the job.

Not that Steve isn't, but its a valid, justified concern. And it fits thematically, as Steve has doubts about the modern world, and having someone on the team also having the opinion that he might not be the man for the job would have emphasized that.

But no, they're all believe in him, despite being a standoffish bunch. The damn Hulk listens to him. As does Thor, and what does Thor know about Captain America, or WWII, for that matter.

It makes it all look like the question "what place does Cap have in the world" is all in Steve's head.

That's still not a valid concern, man. War is still war, no matter when it takes place. Steve was the best man for the job when it came to handling war. The team knew that because Steve had won many battles before, as well as aiding America in winning the great World War. It's really that simple. Thor might have known about Cap from being informed by SHIELD, we don't know for sure because we were never outright shown it. Thor recognizes that Cap is a great warrior like himself and a leader of his people. He respected that and let Cap do his thing, as did the rest of the team.

And yeah, that's the thing. Cap does have a place in the world. It is all in Steve's head. He's the one that feels like he doesn't belong. Even though he questioned if he was the man for the job, the point of that was to show that he stepped up to lead when he was needed, regardless of doubting himself. That's just who he is.

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Originally Posted by ctsketch

they still study battle tactics from WWII battles at Westpoint to this day. Technology has changed but warfare has not,...not that much

I don't think it undermines his leadership. He just looks weaker than he actually is, and that lies specifically with his super soldier abilities, not his leadership. He only had to prove himself to those cops because they didn't know who he was, but once he took the aliens down he got their respect.

Stark was never seen as the leader in the movie. Him saying "Call it, Cap" just showed that he trusted Cap to call the shots, as did the rest of the team when no one gave any objections. I understand what you're saying about Cap's physical prowess, but he was clearly seen as the leader of the team and a leader of men.

Perhaps that's the way you took Tony's statement, but the fact remains that Tony specifically told Cap to give battlefield orders, unlike all the other trusting heroes. Would Cap have given orders otherwise? Dunno.

The cops are representative of the audience, many of whom also do not know who Cap is, and have concluded that this is him at his best, including his inability to triumph over mooks without his shield. His lack of known physical prowess undermines his leadership with the cops just like his lack of known physical prowess undermines his leadership with the audience. He's still seen as a leader, yes, but not as strong a leader, and that shows as Tony tells him to give orders, and later negates Cap's orders - without having to convince everyone to trust him as Cap did - with the nuke. These are related issues.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Juicy J

Caps a pretty tough character to get right all around. Casting was difficult to begin with but Chris Evans is a great leading man; the costume in TFA was amazing and the one in the Avengers was... serviceable, I guess, but I can tell they're going to step their game up with this next movie.
I think that now that they've got the origins and the giant ensemble movie out of the way they'll be able to have more fun with this next one and really explore the character and what exactly he can do physically.

I don't think Cap is that hard. I think once you get rid of the notion that he's supposed to be corny, which TFA never quite shook, and accept: there is a badarse dude wearing the American Flag, Cap becomes very easy to write, you just burden someone hardcore with carrying America on their shoulder. But TFA was far more interested in seeing Cap ride out of explosions on motorcycles than show any impressive hand to hand skills, tactics or even the basic leadership skills in the Avengers. The only obstacle is people who see Cap as not-Awesome. There's was plenty of room in TFA to make Cap something more than a good man with an American flag, but they spent their extra time making sure that Howard Stark was awesome, that Cap had a big song and dance number and was subjected to not being taken seriously for an hour, before we saw even the traces of Captain America for less than that time.

they still study battle tactics from WWII battles at Westpoint to this day. Technology has changed but warfare has not,...not that much

Sure. But there's still stuff a modern day soldier knows that Cap wouldn't.

Quote:

Originally Posted by peterparker0077

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I think the movie explained why they followed Caps lead at the end. Cap was the only one throughout the film that was thinking war strategy and the only one who attempted to point out and question why Loki let himself be captured so easily. Cap ended up being right on all of that, he was steps ahead of everyone else on military strategy of Loki, even Thor would respect that.

He suspected it, but then what? So did Fury. Cap didn't do anything about it, and gets swept up in Loki's manipulations when he breaks into SHIELD's storage to find the HYDRA guns, which is exactly what Loki wanted.

Yeah it is. It's in the beginning of the scene where the camera pans from Avenger to Avenger. Right after we see Black Widow, the camera pans to Iron Man and it follows him until he gets to Captain America. If you look closely just before Iron Man lands beside Cap, you'll see him doing that move.

0:08-0:09 of this vid.

wow, that's really a blink and you'll miss it move right there! I dont think I would have ever noticed it if I didn't see that above .gif

Quote:

Originally Posted by ctsketch

what about him leaping crazy hi and swatting a grenade out of the sky in avengers? or using muscle to open a locked steel door on the heli-carrier?

Those are both good, but I feel like the most athletic stuff we've gotten out of him is jumping high when he's so much more than that.

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"1983: I was 14 years old and I still have a nanny.. that was weird!"

I loved TFA and Cap's role in Avengers, but I can agree with this argument

I went to see Cap with my brother, and he was unimpressed when we left the theater.
I asked him why and he said "because there were no big, oh s**t moments. Thor had a quick final battle, but it looked cool!"
The biggest moment in TFA was him jumping over the fiery pit, or maybe the aerial battle (but even a hydra goon managed to hold on for a bit)
Even the final battle was just him and skull sluggin' it out

I'd love to see a moment like from Civil War, where he takes out a room full of shield agents, then jumps out of the helicarrier onto a jet, slamming his shield into the cockpit
but I guess they kinda had Hulk do that in Avengers, might be too similar...

Thanks. I think if Captain America's supersoldierness actually comes out in TWS, we'll see a much stronger leader both in that film, and the Avengers. Much more likely to hear Avengers Assemble, much less co-op leadership with Tony.

Back to the thread, I've been trying to think of a character that uses his movement to his advantage to position opponents. It's something that happens a lot in video games, but I can't think of a movie character that does it really...

Those were lame imo... I'm tired of seeing Cap leap. The grenade swat was cool but it didn't make the moment epic. And the steel door thing was lackluster.

Are you tired of seeing Iron Man fly or Thor summon his hammer? Just because it's something the character does often doesn't make it "lame" or "lackluster" If Cap's not doing any thing super-soldiery at the moment, I'm completely fine with him at least jumping high or showing his strength. Not every moment can be epic.

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"I knew there was something wrong, it just took a while to dawn on me, or maybe I was just afraid to think it, but you survived the destruction because you caused it. Raina wasn't the only one changed in there, and I'm pretty sure the DNA results that I'm running right now will confirm that there's nothing wrong with the data in my head Skye, there's something wrong with you."

Are you tired of seeing Iron Man fly or Thor summon his hammer? Just because it's something the character does often doesn't make it "lame" or "lackluster" If Cap's not doing any thing super-soldiery at the moment, I'm completely fine with him at least jumping high or showing his strength. Not every moment can be epic.

No, I'm not tired of seeing Iron Man flying and Thor summoning his hammer. However, that has nothing to do with me being tired of seeing Cap leaping all of the time. Not really concerned if you have a problem with that. My opinion isn't changing anytime soon.

No, I'm not tired of seeing Iron Man flying and Thor summoning his hammer. However, that has nothing to do with me being tired of seeing Cap leaping all of the time. Not really concerned if you have a problem with that. My opinion isn't changing anytime soon.

Yeah and I'm not trying to change your opinion, I'm trying to understand it. You seem to expect a lot more of Cap than what is realistic. I'm pretty sure everyone here wants to see Cap doing more super soldier type things in fights. But what's the problem with him using his upper body strength to open a locked door or using his leg strength to leap high? If you look at it as just a typical display of his ability instead of a moment that's supposed to be a highlight then there should be no issue. I understand that this is the "Super-soldier Action Thread" but does everything he does that's not your idea of super soldier action automatically become lame?

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"I knew there was something wrong, it just took a while to dawn on me, or maybe I was just afraid to think it, but you survived the destruction because you caused it. Raina wasn't the only one changed in there, and I'm pretty sure the DNA results that I'm running right now will confirm that there's nothing wrong with the data in my head Skye, there's something wrong with you."

Yeah and I'm not trying to change your opinion, I'm trying to understand it. You seem to expect a lot more of Cap than what is realistic. I'm pretty sure everyone here wants to see Cap doing more super soldier type things in fights. But what's the problem with him using his upper body strength to open a locked door or using his leg strength to leap high? If you look at it as just a typical display of his ability instead of a moment that's supposed to be a highlight then there should be no issue. I understand that this is the "Super-soldier Action Thread" but does everything he does that's not your idea of super soldier action automatically become lame?

I'd be okay with those, if he also did more jaw-dropping feats in addition to them. Instead, we keep getting "meh" things like that.

Yes, moments like that are lame to me. That's just what I think. It doesn't have to become automatically lame to everyone else just because I think so. Perhaps I'll look back on those moments and like them more than I do now, after Cap has done some outrageous super-soldier feats in future movies. But for now, I'm just not feeling them because I know Cap can do more than that. What I'm expecting out of this character is very realistic when you consider who I'm talking about. Like another poster here mentioned, I want to see Cap doing more feats like the ones in this video.

I don't think that's asking too much at all. Cap is capable of doing that and a lot more. Imagine how much the theater would explode if Cap was doing things like that in a movie. If you still don't understand where I'm coming from, I can't help you man.

How can you not be okay with someone jumping or opening a door? It's okay to want him to do more, we all want him to, but in those situations he did exactly what he should have done. I'd understand if you thought his fighting moves during the fights were lackluster, but showing simple displays of strength shouldn't be looked down upon. What do you want him to do in those situations? Grab the door and crush it in one hand? Should he jump up high from an unnecessary hand stand?

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Quote:

"I knew there was something wrong, it just took a while to dawn on me, or maybe I was just afraid to think it, but you survived the destruction because you caused it. Raina wasn't the only one changed in there, and I'm pretty sure the DNA results that I'm running right now will confirm that there's nothing wrong with the data in my head Skye, there's something wrong with you."