Just as a sidenote testing around for good hour with Ji'kun trinket and proc ranged anywhere between 10sec after previous expired and up to almost 3.5-4minutes of a full round w-o a proc. Sure it's 0.5 rppm so should be like 1 proc every 2minutes but ye seeing how much ret is a cooldown class I'l have to say you only have ONE choice for now = LeiShen orders + Gaze OR Primo (whichever is better). Waiting to stack zandalar and seeing how it auto-procs is just ye; totally not worth it.

Yeah I did a ton of simcraft testing in my current T14 gear with every single pair I could think of-- I found, at least for me, that the 517 Vortex & the 510 Lei shen hold up very well against just about all the 522 trinkets. I made a really long post in the Ej thread about it. I can use the expertise on the valor trinket, so I'm rocking that & my 517 vortex for now. Should do me fine through normals, unless t15 set bonuses end up changing any of the trinket strengths.

I'm pretty satisfied with the state of ret on live right now now that I've had my first raid. We look particularly good on Jikun. Of course, I never thought we were broken in the first place, my raid runs 2x mainspec ret. /shrug. I'm loving the SOR change, even though it's not relevant to every fight, cleave is more interesting this way. I'm feeling good about ret in this tier.

I'm pretty satisfied with the state of ret on live right now now that I've had my first raid. We look particularly good on Jikun. Of course, I never thought we were broken in the first place, my raid runs 2x mainspec ret. /shrug. I'm loving the SOR change, even though it's not relevant to every fight, cleave is more interesting this way. I'm feeling good about ret in this tier.

Charming Megera Heroic would be a good idea mid tier when fishing for weapons since he only has ONE item could coin on his loot table. Thankfully the one item is a ring too so if we get a TF version while dumping charms it should be pretty legit.

Keep in mind that that's average dps recorded on the bosses, many fights aren't downed yet and most of the fights this tier support multidotting and aoe massivly. Yes it's "wrong" that the numbers show that way but I'm not surprised. Not even slightly.

So far the biggest "fuck this shit" fight on normal has been Ji'kun, the fight is amazingly simple but it has so many things that don't work properly. Feathers not being able to be picked up untill you run over them 5-6 times, the feed young buff you're supposed to get when flying (basicly the same "bug" that was on the healing dragon fight in ICC, you can't just fly into them they have to hit you sort of deal...)

So far the boss I'm fearing the most on heroic must be Dark Animus, on normal it's imo the third or fourth easiest boss but I'd imagine it's gonna be alot more strict when we come to heroic...

So far the biggest "fuck this shit" fight on normal has been Ji'kun, the fight is amazingly simple but it has so many things that don't work properly. Feathers not being able to be picked up untill you run over them 5-6 times, the feed young buff you're supposed to get when flying (basicly the same "bug" that was on the healing dragon fight in ICC, you can't just fly into them they have to hit you sort of deal...)

So far the boss I'm fearing the most on heroic must be Dark Animus, on normal it's imo the third or fourth easiest boss but I'd imagine it's gonna be alot more strict when we come to heroic...

Can we stop crying about other classes and dps rankings. It's getting old.

Agreed completely.

Also... had the opposite experience on Ji Kun from Huntingbear, it was my favorite fight! I love it. The worst part about it was that we only wiped once so I didn't get to see it much, I would fly all day long. We encountered zero feather bugs.

Are you honestly telling me you - as a Ret Paladin - wouldn't hold back a hardcore 25-man guild right now in heroic ToT? Seriously.

Yes. Absolutely honestly. US top 50, we run two mainspec rets. Ran them just fine through 16/16H, no plans to change in T15? Raidbots says that slightly over 1 ret per 25 was average all through last tier for 25 man guilds, which sounds fine to me for one spec from a 3 spec class. I honestly have no idea what you're talking about.

And ret has looked fine so far through TOT normals. Check TOT logs, no one is sitting ret paladins?

Yes. Absolutely honestly. US top 50, we run two mainspec rets. Ran them just fine through 16/16H, no plans to change in T15? Raidbots says that slightly over 1 ret per 25 was average all through last tier for 25 man guilds, which sounds fine to me for one spec from a 3 spec class. I honestly have no idea what you're talking about.

And ret has looked fine so far through TOT normals. Check TOT logs, no one is sitting ret paladins?

Sitting mages though. Bout time.

Sha of Fear Melee hit You 372908 Physical. (766625 Overkill) (Critical)Begging us to buff is sometimes easier than trying to beat the boss.(Source)