+1 to "I doubt I'll ever own a DX body again".
After getting the D200 new a number of years back, the camera has gone through a couple of hands within the family, and at that time I told myself that I will never get another DX camera.
But a couple of months ago we went passed a used camera store and saw a reasonably good condition D300 for about $540 (inclusive of local tax), so we got it and after about a month of use we decided to send it in to Nikon to have it check, clean and refurbished (replace worn rubbers and scratched focusing screen) for another $50 under NPS. Now we have an almost new D300 with either a 70-200mm Nikon or a 120-400mm Sigma always mounted to it to minimize lens change and a larger LCD.
I think this will really be our last DX camera unless another D300s comes our way after a couple of years to replace the D300. Anyway we seldom shoot DX anymore due having 4 D700 FX in the family.

pburke wrote:
It's a joy to watch this D400 fan club thread. Something like an AA group meeting, each one supporting the others with uplifting statements to generate fresh hope and motivation to continue with their chosen path, even right after yet another low cost FX body was announced

Anyone else want to share this morning?

Sure, dr. Burke

I for one am not able to imagine that the D7100 is meant to be the top of the DX line.
Its noticeably limited buffer capacity so strongly indicates that there will actually be some kind of another more full-blown DX successor to the D300

So let's just be patient.
The longer we have to wait, the more of an upgrade it will be.

The successor to the D300/D300s will have EXPEED 4, USB 3, no blurring-filter, autofocus and metering directly on the sensor, at least 51 focus points, 1/8000 sec. max shutter speed, a generous buffer, top of the line handling with e.g. AF-ON button, 100% magnified playback by center button and the whole shebang (nothing like the deliberately crippled D600/D610).

Judged by the time it has taken to develop and judged by the times it has been postponed it will most likely be the first F-mount camera to take the jump into the mirrorless future.

Personally I'm going to miss the optical viewfinder.
An optical viewfinder is like looking at a wonderful scenery through a clean window pane or through a nice binocular.
An electronic viewfinder is like looking at a picture of the same scenery on a television, and you have to turn on the TV before you can see the picture at all.
But we all know that it is going to happen at some point, both for cost and for focus accuracy.
And I'm finally prepared to accept it, so let's get it over with.
My guess is first quarter 2014 which only means we still have some time to save some more money for it.

I have just had my D800E stolen by a burglar so for the moment I'm back on my good, old D300.
I'm impressed by again experiencing how well it works for me.
I did get most of the insurance money so I am of course somewhat in the market for a new FX camera and contemplating either buying back into the D800E (however so darn expensive where I live), or the D610 (however filter-blurred and artificially crippled in silly ways), or simply wait for the next disruptive development, like e.g. the D300 DX successor.
Meanwhile I enjoy my D300 as well as shooting film with my two old F3s.
I'm not in a hurry.
April 2014 I may start getting impatient ...

Until then, André et al, stay patient, good things come to those who wait

Jorgen Udvang wrote:
Now, there's really no point. The K-3 is much cheaper than the (imaginary) D400 will be. It's even cheaper than the ancient D300s. That means that selling the Nikon gear now and buying a couple of K-3 bodies (or a K-3 plus a K-5 backup) plus the necessary lenses won't be much more expensive than upgrading from D300 to D400, if the D400 ever happens. The only serious downside I can see is an inferior flash system.

Tempting stuff. I'll see when I've paid for the GH3 and E-M1

Inferior flash system and not much for long fast glass 200mm or longer. So while Pentax has the camera body, they lack many of the lenses ... but I have to give them credit for having the DX equivalent of a 70-200.

Andre Labonte wrote:
Inferior flash system and not much for long fast glass 200mm or longer. So while Pentax has the camera body, they lack many of the lenses ... but I have to give them credit for having the DX equivalent of a 70-200.

They make the following high quality telephoto lenses:
200mm f/2.8
300mm f/4.0
60-250mm f/4.0

In addition, the following long Sigma lenses are available in K-mount:
50-500mm f/4.5-6.5
70-200mm f/2.8
120-400mm f/4.5-5.6
150-500mm f/5.0-6.3
300mm f/2.8
500mm f/4.5

Pentax also makes 2 WA primes for the APS format, the 14mm f/2.8 and the 15mm f/4.0, something Nikon has never gotten around to do.

No, I don't work for Pentax. I don't even own a Pentax camera. However, now that my hope for a D400 has faded somewhat, I do see that alternative systems have their attractions. If I find that I need a properly featured small sensor camera with an optical viewfinder that works well at ISO 1600 or more, Pentax is certainly an attractive option.

Where Nikon is absolutely unbeatable is when it comes to 18-something mm consumer grade zooms for the DX format

Hi Jorgen -- If I'm buying a camera for sports, I want a 300 f/2.8 ... I don't see that in the Pentax line-up. f/4 is not fast in my book. An I should not have to buy 3rd party to get a complete system.

That said, we are now nearly 1/2 way through October and no D400 ... the clock is ticking Nikon!!!!!

You know that I would be one of the last to rain on your parade, Andre, but I have a feeling that Nikon isn't going to give us a d400 this year. I think that they're milking that FX cow until it is dry and that they just don't care about the amateur sports/action/wildlife shooters right now.

In all honesty, I'm not all that disappointed. I'm not sure that I'd be happy with a current 24mp sensor. If they think that 24mp is the standard, then I'd rather wait for the next generation sensor with better noise performance, assuming that they can do better.

If they'd put a tweaked d7k sensor into a d300 body with all the features, I'd be quite happy. I don't see that happening either.

I hope that I'm wrong, but I'm gonna watch Canon and see what they do with the 7d. I tend to think that if Canon updates the 7d, Nikon will follow with a d400, but not much sooner.

pburke wrote:
It's a joy to watch this D400 fan club thread. Something like an AA group meeting, each one supporting the others with uplifting statements to generate fresh hope and motivation to continue with their chosen path, even right after yet another low cost FX body was announced

Anyone else want to share this morning?
At least 12 Step meetings do some good for the participants. They do tend to stay sober/clean/whatever. Ssad to say, Nikon is attending its own AA meetings. (anti APS)

guero_gordo wrote:
These threads remind me of the "religious scholar" who's predicted the end of the world about 7 times now, while all his followers keep selling their earthly possessions to get ready every time.

LMAO now that is funny ... I always get a kick out of them too.

Funny thing is, I'm not ready to buy a D400 even if it did come out ... I just want to know what my future upgrade path is as my D300 is getting old and could die. I'd settle for a D7100 if the buffer were better.

Kerry Pierce wrote:
You know that I would be one of the last to rain on your parade, Andre, but I have a feeling that Nikon isn't going to give us a d400 this year. I think that they're milking that FX cow until it is dry and that they just don't care about the amateur sports/action/wildlife shooters right now.

In all honesty, I'm not all that disappointed. I'm not sure that I'd be happy with a current 24mp sensor. If they think that 24mp is the standard, then I'd rather wait for the next generation sensor with better noise performance, assuming that they can do better.

If they'd put a tweaked d7k sensor into a d300 body with all the features, I'd be quite happy. I don't see that happening either.

I hope that I'm wrong, but I'm gonna watch Canon and see what they do with the 7d. I tend to think that if Canon updates the 7d, Nikon will follow with a d400, but not much sooner.

Sorry to say it, but I think you are right. Such is life. Reality is what it is and I'm a realist (with dreams ) I too would be happy with a D7100 sensor in a D300 body provided the buffer was 3 seconds deep and the FPS = 6+

Look at it this way: Despite all the recent announcements, your D300 is still the top-of-the-line Nikon pro DX dSLR. It has kept that position for 6 years and counting. You want a pro DX body? Still the D300. There's only one.

Kerry Pierce wrote:
You know that I would be one of the last to rain on your parade, Andre, but I have a feeling that Nikon isn't going to give us a d400 this year. I think that they're milking that FX cow until it is dry and that they just don't care about the amateur sports/action/wildlife shooters right now.

In all honesty, I'm not all that disappointed. I'm not sure that I'd be happy with a current 24mp sensor. If they think that 24mp is the standard, then I'd rather wait for the next generation sensor with better noise performance, assuming that they can do better.

If they'd put a tweaked d7k sensor into a d300 body with all the features, I'd be quite happy. I don't see that happening either.

I hope that I'm wrong, but I'm gonna watch Canon and see what they do with the 7d. I tend to think that if Canon updates the 7d, Nikon will follow with a d400, but not much sooner.

Interesting comments Kerry. I'm very disappointed in the lack of a D400, but have to say even if Nikon does release a D400 but stick in a crappy non-Exmor sensor, I'm not interested. I tried (and returned) the D7100 but that Toshiba sensor is not in the same league as the Exmor. All Nikon has to do is stick the old D7000 sensor in an updated D300 body for goodness sake -- that would please me to no end.

Having mistakenly sold my D300 too soon (last year assuming the D400 would be close at hand), at this point I'm actually considering a lightly used D4 for my high-speed needs. My D800 does everything else I could want.

Gary Irwin wrote:
Interesting comments Kerry. I'm very disappointed in the lack of a D400, but have to say even if Nikon does release a D400 but stick in a crappy non-Exmor sensor, I'm not interested. I tried (and returned) the D7100 but that Toshiba sensor is not in the same league as the Exmor. All Nikon has to do is stick the old D7000 sensor in an updated D300 body for goodness sake -- that would please me to no end.

Having mistakenly sold my D300 too soon (last year assuming the D400 would be close at hand), at this point I'm actually considering a lightly used D4 for my high-speed needs. My D800 does everything else I could want....Show more →

Hi Gary,

Thanks for your comments.

I haven't yet used a d7100. Been thinking of renting one, just to see for myself, but I've seen a number of d7100 images that I don't really like the noise performance. Of course, that could be due to user error in shooting and post. Seems like sharpening can really bring the noise out quickly, if one isn't careful.

When you had the d7100, did you try all of the NR tricks, including downsizing to about 10 to 12mp? If so, did that give you much better high ISO performance than the d300? For my sports needs, 10 to 12mp is more than enough.

As I said, I'd love to have the 16mp d7k/d5100 sensor in a high performance d300 style body. I'm afraid that just isn't likely to happen. I really want a d400 though, so I'll wait and see what they finally come up with.

In the meanwhile, I still have a low shutter count d300, a d7k that I sometimes use, and I bought a d3s in early 2012. The d3s replaced my d700 for high ISO indoor sports and I sometimes use a 1.4x TC on it, as a high ISO d300. It's not a perfect solution, but it's better than nothing.

Maybe Nikon/Sony will come out with a 20mp Exmor sensor that is TOL for DX high ISO. I could easily live with something like that, I think.

Sorry to say it, but I think you are right. Such is life. Reality is what it is and I'm a realist (with dreams ) I too would be happy with a D7100 sensor in a D300 body provided the buffer was 3 seconds deep and the FPS = 6+

Cheers,
Andre

I may be a stubborn blockhead, (probably), but I don't want a d400 that loses any performance from the d300. 6fps doesn't interest me. The camera would have to be a monster in every other category for me to accept 6fps. I want 8fps, big buffer, at a minimum. (9 would be even better because it would then be the same as my d3s)

I think that one of the problems with the d400 is that they couldn't make 8fps with a 20 to 24mp sensor. Why they didn't use the d7k sensor to make 8fps, I'll never know nor understand.

Kerry Pierce wrote:
I haven't yet used a d7100. Been thinking of renting one, just to see for myself, but I've seen a number of d7100 images that I don't really like the noise performance. Of course, that could be due to user error in shooting and post. Seems like sharpening can really bring the noise out quickly, if one isn't careful.

When you had the d7100, did you try all of the NR tricks, including downsizing to about 10 to 12mp? If so, did that give you much better high ISO performance than the d300? For my sports needs, 10 to 12mp is more than enough.

As I said, I'd love to have the 16mp d7k/d5100 sensor in a high performance d300 style body. I'm afraid that just isn't likely to happen. I really want a d400 though, so I'll wait and see what they finally come up with. ...Show more →

I used the D7100 in the same fashion as the D800 (hand held in field conditions, average to good lighting). I was hoping to see SOME benefit from the the extra pixels and slightly faster frame rate over the D800, but was quite disappointed in the resulting IQ when cropping heavy like I always seem to be doing. The D7100 is a very good camera, especially for the price, but I think it offers very little for a D800 owner.

FWIW I recall reading that both Colin Carter and Will (Trenchmonkey) over on Nikon Cafe both prefer the D7000 over the D7100.

To be honest I'm starting to have second thoughts about a 24MP DX sensor. I still fondly remember the fantastic IQ I got from my old 12MP D3 when I could fill a good portion of the frame with the subject. Maybe MP's really are reaching their practical limit.

Gary Irwin wrote:
I used the D7100 in the same fashion as the D800 (hand held in field conditions, average to good lighting). I was hoping to see SOME benefit from the the extra pixels and slightly faster frame rate over the D800, but was quite disappointed in the resulting IQ when cropping heavy like I always seem to be doing. The D7100 is a very good camera, especially for the price, but I think it offers very little for a D800 owner.

FWIW I recall reading that both Colin Carter and Will (Trenchmonkey) over on Nikon Cafe both prefer the D7000 over the D7100.

To be honest I'm starting to have second thoughts about a 24MP DX sensor. I still fondly remember the fantastic IQ I got from my old 12MP D3 when I could fill a good portion of the frame with the subject. Maybe MP's really are reaching their practical limit....Show more →

ah, I see, thanks for the additional info, Gary. If you don't have to crop heavily, I guess that the extra MPs of these big sensors are okay. But, big crops don't seem to do so well. I generally don't do much cropping on my d800 either.

From what I've read, apparently sensor tech is just about maxed out with noise performance of current technology. I tend to believe that they could tweak more out, like they did with the d3 to d3s, but probably not a full stop for DX.

If they really have little or no room to improve, then the only answer is to add even more pixels to make the noise smaller/less apparent, allow for binning, downsizing, etc.

The D1 was actually a 10mp sensor that output to 5mp, IIRC. Maybe they could do something like that for better noise performance and speed. Dunno.

What I do know is that the d7k sensor is a significant improvement on the d300 and a significant improvement is all that I want. Now, we'll have to wait and see if Nikon will ever give it to me/us.