[A]- I have read and understand fully the Required Reading for posting a Map Approval Request: YES- I have read and understand fully the Map Approval Rules: YES- I have confirmed that this map is currently approved: YES

[C]- In a few words, why do you think this map should not be approved?: This map is quite outdated. It's a large, open field you can spam across, with no alternate routes. It does not promote skillful or fair gameplay.- In detail, why should the map not be approved?: Specifically, as I stated, this map has large open spaces to spam across with the assault rifle or sniper rifle. In DM and TDM it's a complete mess, and promotes camping. It is certainly not good for ranked matches. Additionally, it breaks the following approval requirements under Part 2:

Make sure that players which spawn without guns can survive, hide, kill somebody with only swords and grenades.

If map is team-based, then it must be balanced, this can be accomplished by useing the symmetrical key. Advance Level Editor can mirror objects by pressing H and V keys. Use same amount of hitpoints for every player. Players must feel fair gameplay while playing your map.

Do not make rooms that are to large (to avoid spraying).

- Any other comments: This map was unapproved once in the past. I'm not really sure why it was added back.

Completely agreed, it's just a spray-fest, I think the reason it was approved was because people kept making matches called "approve x death-realwar" which is still a terrible idea to do so anyway.

phsc wrote:WHY ARE YOU GUYS TALKING ABOUT REALISM IN A FUTURISTIC 2D FLASH SCROLL SHOOTER THAT HAS ALIENS AND UNREALISTIC UNHOLDABLE GUNS AND REGENERATION AND MANY OTHER THINGS, LOSTMYDOLLAR/JASON EDEN PLEASE UNDERSTAND THIS IS NOT A REALISTIC GAME AND STOP TRYING TO TURN IT INTO ONE BECAUSE IT WONT

Ezra1 wrote:I still think that some of the requirements are stupid and this map has been around for a long time.I think it should remain approved.

Yes, some of the requirements are stupid, such as being limited to designs and settings... But two wrongs don't make a right.

phsc wrote:WHY ARE YOU GUYS TALKING ABOUT REALISM IN A FUTURISTIC 2D FLASH SCROLL SHOOTER THAT HAS ALIENS AND UNREALISTIC UNHOLDABLE GUNS AND REGENERATION AND MANY OTHER THINGS, LOSTMYDOLLAR/JASON EDEN PLEASE UNDERSTAND THIS IS NOT A REALISTIC GAME AND STOP TRYING TO TURN IT INTO ONE BECAUSE IT WONT

ukqbhxdxmujvdashuhoyvkpzqhsgedbg wrote:lots of player will complain or perhaps even quit if this map gets unapproved. If you hate it, don't play it.

That's not the point, the map has to meet some rules once it's approved, and complains are to be expected anyway. But not playing it is not the solution, it modifies your stats, but it's just a spray fest.

"If you don't like it don't use it." is never a good answer.

phsc wrote:WHY ARE YOU GUYS TALKING ABOUT REALISM IN A FUTURISTIC 2D FLASH SCROLL SHOOTER THAT HAS ALIENS AND UNREALISTIC UNHOLDABLE GUNS AND REGENERATION AND MANY OTHER THINGS, LOSTMYDOLLAR/JASON EDEN PLEASE UNDERSTAND THIS IS NOT A REALISTIC GAME AND STOP TRYING TO TURN IT INTO ONE BECAUSE IT WONT

I completely agree with OP. I see this map used very often in approved matches, but it is always a spam-fest. The map promotes no actual skillful play, it only promotes camping.

It was shortly stated in OP's post, but I think it requires a little magnification: the open field. This open field is bare and almost guarantees death if one is to venture out in a COOP match to the other side. It is a no mans' land and for this very reason alone I think the map should NEVER have been approved in the first place. There are other aspects of the map that make it terrible, but this is the primary cause. I know some of this is just restating what the OP said, but there is absolutely no alternate route; only the no mans' land field. Having this map be approved is disgraceful and unacceptable.

The map needs to be totally reworked before it's suitable for approval.

Just cause it's different doesn't mean it has to be un-approved. Why should we take away a map that attracts much of the fanbase, and relegate it to custom matches, where it will be much less popular (and force players to deal with those "no kill" guys more) and therefore cause players to quit? Making small changes to it that would encourage smarter and more skillful gameplay - such as adding a tunnel - is a solution that will just make everybody happier. I couldn't see any players being unhappy that a new lane of combat was added - RealWar fans are there for the tacticool experience, and a new lane would just add to the strategic focus of the map. I never see anybody farming/camping at a high level on the map (like on krow-combat or ijer-sector) - good players who want pp/kills just avoid it.

On an unrelated note, I don't understand why approval is so much of a commodity to this community. If the map is fair, functional, and, most importantly, fun for the community, why not approve it? Bonus points for creativity - if players like it, they'll play it. Worshiping approval is an obnoxious attitude that just alienates map makers who don't have an approved maps, or causes the removal of maps that some players enjoy, thereby weakening the fanbase both in numbers and in trust for the developer.

It doesn't only needs a tunnel, it also needs more cover in the middle water route.

phsc wrote:WHY ARE YOU GUYS TALKING ABOUT REALISM IN A FUTURISTIC 2D FLASH SCROLL SHOOTER THAT HAS ALIENS AND UNREALISTIC UNHOLDABLE GUNS AND REGENERATION AND MANY OTHER THINGS, LOSTMYDOLLAR/JASON EDEN PLEASE UNDERSTAND THIS IS NOT A REALISTIC GAME AND STOP TRYING TO TURN IT INTO ONE BECAUSE IT WONT

I personally think that it needs an alternative routes.Having one route going to the other side is just a camp fest even with the current 3 burst rifles.Its still gonna be a camp fest. You got a whole team defending one entrance non stop.

But with 1 or 2 more alternative routes to go around the map, not everyone will focus on the other routesThus allowing the other team to safely get to the other side without that much risk

Ayano wrote:I personally think that it needs an alternative routes.Having one route going to the other side is just a camp fest even with the current 3 burst rifles.Its still gonna be a camp fest. You got a whole team defending one entrance non stop.

But with 1 or 2 more alternative routes to go around the map, not everyone will focus on the other routesThus allowing the other team to safely get to the other side without that much risk

which is why tehswordninja made his realwar map lol

the map is made for teams to clash with one another. it's the only map where you play the old pb2 style. Lel SO why most players say they want old pb2 back anyway

stryde sniper has worse problems but never got edited or unapproved, so if you don't like the map, don't play it, since there's other approved realwar maps.

Star Fox McCloud wrote:the map is made for teams to clash with one another.

Its more of a clusterfock of gunfire rather than a clash.A player may use a laggy ally as a temporary meat shield against the enemywith the laggy player tanking most of the shots the other player behind him/her may simply shoot without that much penalty.While for the opposing side it will cause serious problems since most of the damage just gets eaten by that one lagger.

Star Fox McCloud wrote:it's the only map where you play the old pb2 style. Lel SO why most players say they want old pb2 back anyway

eric gurt-ftp1_mpwas old and had 2 ways of getting to the opposing side's base/spawn.You had a teleporter which may let either teams travel fast enough but with a risk of getting tele camped.Or another longer route which provided a safer passage compared to the other near teleporter

spike nitros-smbTeams needed to get to the other side by jumping.Surprisingly even if this was a weird map, It provided more alternate routes by means of jumping or boosting.If you fail your boost or jump the penalty is almost an instant death since the map is was most likely designed for a High risk = High reward kind of thing.

rayhan-clasicbluevsredI am pretty sure most of the old players are familiar with this map.It used to have a 1500 HP plus a bigger Drop which allowed some players to fly in the map.But now its a bit fixed.One team starts from above, the other starts below.It may had 1 route to go to each other's bases.The Red needed to drop themselves into the blue baseWhile the Blues needed to use a teleporter to teleport into the red base.But hey atleast it wasn't a complete clusterfock of bullets getting sprayed from one direction.

Star Fox McCloud wrote:so if you don't like the map, don't play it, since there's other approved realwar maps.

I never said I disliked the map. I only said it needed more alternative routes rather than one which leads into bullet hell.And like what Silverteen said.

silverteen11 wrote:"If you don't like it don't use it." is never a good answer.

Its pretty unfair especially if one can just simply slingshot to the other side and gun them down quickly.or maybe use an allied lagger as a temporary meat shield.or maybe get to ends of the river and get your whole team there and spray since the gun range is pretty long to reach the other end of the river.Secure your end of the river before the enemy team does, and you have a full team advantage against the other team. since the enemy will only be able to camp in the towers.Then again it is also a stalemate where in either side can't even compete properly.Since both teams will camp either way.

If you say it should be approved because its old, Ive seen older maps than this which did not even get approved.If you say its because its fun, any map can be fun. from Gunshops to SAWs to Arenas to Defib wars. its all about the attitude.If you say lots of players will complain. Why would they complain? they can still play it in custom maps?I loved Nyove-Rockets when it still used to be approve for the easy kills. But hey I never complained when it was unapproved.

Then whats the point in making an approval/edit/removal requests?Its simply because some people actually want to play the game in a balanced way with hopes that action will be taken. and this also may provide the map maker some constructive criticism and see if he/she can improve the map better.

Ayano wrote:I personally think that it needs an alternative routes.Having one route going to the other side is just a camp fest even with the current 3 burst rifles.Its still gonna be a camp fest. You got a whole team defending one entrance non stop.

But with 1 or 2 more alternative routes to go around the map, not everyone will focus on the other routesThus allowing the other team to safely get to the other side without that much risk

which is why tehswordninja made his realwar map lol

the map is made for teams to clash with one another. it's the only map where you play the old pb2 style. Lel SO why most players say they want old pb2 back anyway

stryde sniper has worse problems but never got edited or unapproved, so if you don't like the map, don't play it, since there's other approved realwar maps.

Perhaps sword ninja's map should be approved instead. I haven't seen it, personally.

Also, I support stryde-sniper being unapproved as well. Saying don't play it if you don't like it is not a great solution- Because others will farm it. New players coming in will see approved matches as an example of what PB2 is, and if they see that? They're not gonna stick around. I surely wouldn't.