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Parents can now face jail time if their child is a bully

Parents of children found bullying other minors can now end up in jail, thanks to a recently-passed ordinance in one western New York town.

The new law, which went into effect on October 1 in North Tonawanda, New York, states that any parent of a child who violates city law twice within a 90-day period could be fined $250 and sentenced up to 15 days in jail.

This includes infractions such as bullying other children and breaking the city's curfew.

The law is modeled after an ordinance passed in Wisconsin in 2016, which called for steep fines for parents of children who bully other kids.

North Tonawanda City Attorney Luke Brown told ABC that he hopes the law will force parents to get involved in order to stop children from repeatedly bullying others.

"In reality, what we're looking for is to engage the parents in the process and try and work on a solution," Brown said.

Thoughts?

"Doubt is not an agreeable condition, but certainty is an absurd one." ~ Voltaire

2 Kings 2:23-24: "....Then two bears came out of the woods and mauled forty-two of the boys."

Re: Parents can now face jail time if their child is a bully

As to the rest, historically parents have been held responsible for any crimes committed by their children.

-Make America Nazi Free!

-Agent of Satan, but my duties are largely ceremonial.

-"Personally, I play a warlock to set people on fire as they run in fear while I steal their souls. As an added perk, I play an undead warlock so I can eat their brains afterwards. I suppose a better question is, why do people play anything else?" (Unknown WoW forum poster)

Re: Parents can now face jail time if their child is a bully

To all of the above:

Bullying is generally defined as an intentional act that causes harm to others, and may involve verbal harassment, verbal or non-verbal threats, physical assault, stalking, or other methods of coercion such as manipulation, blackmail, or extortion. It is aggressive behavior that intends to hurt, threaten or frighten another person. An imbalance of power between the aggressor and the victim is often involved. Bullying occurs in a variety of contexts, such as schools, workplaces, political or military settings, and others.

Laws and policies governing bullying vary by state and entity. As of March 2007, 30 states have enacted harassment, intimidation and bullying statutes. In 2007, Iowa enacted anti-harassment and anti-bullying legislation. During the 2005-2006 legislative sessions, eleven states - Alaska, Arizona, Idaho, Indiana, Maine, Maryland, Missouri, Ohio, South Carolina, Tennessee and Virginia - enacted new policies, and four states - Arkansas, Connecticut, Illinois and Vermont - amended or expanded statutes.

.
The following is an example of a school policy defining bullying:

For the purpose of this policy, “bullying” means any physical act or gesture or any verbally, written or electronically communicated expression that”

A. A reasonable person should expect will have the effect of:

1. Physically harming a student or damaging a student’s property.

2. Placing a student in reasonable fear of physical harm or damage to his/her property; or

3. Substantially disrupting the instructional program or the orderly operations of the school; or

4. Is so severe, persistent, or pervasive that it creates an intimidating, hostile educational environment for the student who is bullied.

The exact legal definiton for New York (the state in question is as follows:

7. "Harassment" and "bullying" shall mean the creation of a hostile environment by conduct or by threats, intimidation or abuse, including cyberbullying, that (a) has or would have the effect of unreasonably and substantially interfering with a student's educational performance, opportunities or benefits, or mental, emotional or physical well-being; or (b) reasonably causes or would reasonably be expected to cause a student to fear for his or her physical safety; or (c) reasonably causes or would reasonably be expected to cause physical injury or emotional harm to a student; or (d) occurs off school property and creates or would foreseeably create a risk of substantial disruption within the school environment, where it is foreseeable that the conduct, threats, intimidation or abuse might reach school property. Acts of harassment and bullying shall include, but not be limited to, those acts based on a person's actual or perceived race, color, weight, national origin, ethnic group, religion, religious practice, disability, sexual orientation, gender or sex. For the purposes of this definition the term "threats, intimidation or abuse" shall include verbal and non-verbal actions.

Re: Parents can now face jail time if their child is a bully

The exact legal definiton for New York (the state in question is as follows:

7. "Harassment" and "bullying" shall mean the creation of a hostile environment by conduct or by threats, intimidation or abuse, including cyberbullying, that (a) has or would have the effect of unreasonably and substantially interfering with a student's educational performance, opportunities or benefits, or mental, emotional or physical well-being; or (b) reasonably causes or would reasonably be expected to cause a student to fear for his or her physical safety; or (c) reasonably causes or would reasonably be expected to cause physical injury or emotional harm to a student; or (d) occurs off school property and creates or would foreseeably create a risk of substantial disruption within the school environment, where it is foreseeable that the conduct, threats, intimidation or abuse might reach school property. Acts of harassment and bullying shall include, but not be limited to, those acts based on a person's actual or perceived race, color, weight, national origin, ethnic group, religion, religious practice, disability, sexual orientation, gender or sex. For the purposes of this definition the term "threats, intimidation or abuse" shall include verbal and non-verbal actions.

That is way too broad. Enough so that it becomes completely subjective and would be capriciously enforced at the whim of the prosecutor. This is exactly what a law should not be. I don't see it holding up if challenged.

"The argument that “people now have more freedom than ever” is based on the fact that we are allowed to do almost anything we please as long as it has no practical consequences."

Re: Parents can now face jail time if their child is a bully

Originally Posted by Marou

That is way too broad. Enough so that it becomes completely subjective and would be capriciously enforced at the whim of the prosecutor. This is exactly what a law should not be. I don't see it holding up if challenged.

It's been in place and enforced for 7 years.

"Doubt is not an agreeable condition, but certainty is an absurd one." ~ Voltaire

2 Kings 2:23-24: "....Then two bears came out of the woods and mauled forty-two of the boys."

Re: Parents can now face jail time if their child is a bully

Originally Posted by Zavon

It's been in place and enforced for 7 years.

I'm guessing because they've never tried to wield it against anyone with money. This is one of the largest problems with the US legal system. Bad law can stand until the government uses it on someone with enough money to appeal to higher courts until they get the law struck down.

"The argument that “people now have more freedom than ever” is based on the fact that we are allowed to do almost anything we please as long as it has no practical consequences."

Re: Parents can now face jail time if their child is a bully

This law exists because school officials turned a blind eye to shitstains pushing other students around for years. I was lucky because I was bigger than anyone in my school up through high school so people didn't fuck with me but I saw bullies in action and unless they were beating on someone in the middle of the quad they got away with it. If the school authorities had done something back then we wouldn't have this law in place.

-Make America Nazi Free!

-Agent of Satan, but my duties are largely ceremonial.

-"Personally, I play a warlock to set people on fire as they run in fear while I steal their souls. As an added perk, I play an undead warlock so I can eat their brains afterwards. I suppose a better question is, why do people play anything else?" (Unknown WoW forum poster)

Re: Parents can now face jail time if their child is a bully

Originally Posted by Alex Mars

This law exists because school officials turned a blind eye to shitstains pushing other students around for years. I was lucky because I was bigger than anyone in my school up through high school so people didn't fuck with me but I saw bullies in action and unless they were beating on someone in the middle of the quad they got away with it. If the school authorities had done something back then we wouldn't have this law in place.

I went off on a teacher one time. They were asking something about what staff can do about bullying, in the context of talking to students in class. I told her to get out of her damn chair after class. Every day bullying is facilitated because when the bell rings every teacher sits down at their desk and stares at papers for 10min in an empty room while the school goes full Lord of the Flies.

Half the teachers should go out in the hall and stand between two rooms. The other half from those adjoining rooms should walk to the nearest place kids congregate. A locker bank or a bathroom or whatever.

I get that they have things to do, but that should be scheduled for some other time, or planned better. If you can't grade that much homework within school hours then don't give that much homework.

Nowadays when people start to get killed by fireballs, no one says they need to dodge the fireball anymore; they say they need to go get a fire resist ring and some ice damage so they don't have to.

Re: Parents can now face jail time if their child is a bully

I honestly wonder if kids have become more vicious with the advent of the internet. There is the whole chan culture, and this evil sort of narcissist mindset that I don't remember being present when I was a kid. There is nothing that they seem to show reverence for. Granted, my experience with said kids is mostly related to what I see on the internet, so I could be talking out of my ass here.

"Doubt is not an agreeable condition, but certainty is an absurd one." ~ Voltaire

2 Kings 2:23-24: "....Then two bears came out of the woods and mauled forty-two of the boys."

Re: Parents can now face jail time if their child is a bully

Originally Posted by Zavon

I honestly wonder if kids have become more vicious with the advent of the internet. There is the whole chan culture, and this evil sort of narcissist mindset that I don't remember being present when I was a kid. There is nothing that they seem to show reverence for. Granted, my experience with said kids is mostly related to what I see on the internet, so I could be talking out of my ass here.

I was in high school 2001-2005 IIRC. Might have been 2000-2004. Kids were fucked up and brutal, but not in the same ways as adults. I never heard my black friend get called a nigger, but we were told to kill ourselves regularly. Mostly self esteem attacks. I guess they knew that worked on most other kids.

One day in my second or third year there was a fun snowball fight and suddenly everyone decided to pick one kid and only throw snowballs at that one kid while yelling shit about them being alone and worthless. I was that kid. Found out later that they learned and copied this from the younger kids who had planned it and done it on purpose for a few days in a row on the earlier lunch period, freshman planning and doing it to other freshman and making them cry and shit.

And yes, we were able to have all-out snowball fights during lunch period because teachers were disinterested. Every memory I have in life of school, recalled as an adult, surprises me over and over again how disinterested everyone was. A few teachers gave a shit in the classroom, but I never saw them in a hallway ever.

Nowadays when people start to get killed by fireballs, no one says they need to dodge the fireball anymore; they say they need to go get a fire resist ring and some ice damage so they don't have to.

Re: Parents can now face jail time if their child is a bully

Originally Posted by VKhaun

I was in high school 2001-2005 IIRC. Might have been 2000-2004. Kids were fucked up and brutal, but not in the same ways as adults. I never heard my black friend get called a nigger, but we were told to kill ourselves regularly. Mostly self esteem attacks. I guess they knew that worked on most other kids.

One day in my second or third year there was a fun snowball fight and suddenly everyone decided to pick one kid and only throw snowballs at that one kid while yelling shit about them being alone and worthless. I was that kid. Found out later that they learned and copied this from the younger kids who had planned it and done it on purpose for a few days in a row on the earlier lunch period, freshman planning and doing it to other freshman and making them cry and shit.

And yes, we were able to have all-out snowball fights during lunch period because teachers were disinterested. Every memory I have in life of school, recalled as an adult, surprises me over and over again how disinterested everyone was. A few teachers gave a shit in the classroom, but I never saw them in a hallway ever.

I bet none of those kids even remember that day, or at least it never occurs to them. While you have to think about the trauma of it every time you think about high school.

"Doubt is not an agreeable condition, but certainty is an absurd one." ~ Voltaire

2 Kings 2:23-24: "....Then two bears came out of the woods and mauled forty-two of the boys."

Re: Parents can now face jail time if their child is a bully

I bet none of those kids even remember that day, or at least it never occurs to them. While you have to think about the trauma of it every time you think about high school.

LOL did he say some freshman had done this shit making them cry and shit? High school freshman? Crying?

"Nah man, a Paladin has to play fair and by the rules. Do you really see Silly not attacking a weakened opponent? Or rather, not exploiting a weakness to take an enemy down? He'd totally do that. It's the law of the jungle with Silly, even if he does have faith. I think he's principled, just not merciful." - Zavon

Re: Parents can now face jail time if their child is a bully

Originally Posted by Sillywilly

LOL did he say some freshman had done this shit making them cry and shit? High school freshman? Crying?

Unless I'm misunderstanding, I think he was saying they got the idea from Freshman, who also did it. Its really fucked how cruel kids can be, and I think he's right about how there needs to be more supervision.

However, on the other-hand I'm torn because all the shit I see happening at schools these days makes me want less teacher intervention.

"Doubt is not an agreeable condition, but certainty is an absurd one." ~ Voltaire

2 Kings 2:23-24: "....Then two bears came out of the woods and mauled forty-two of the boys."

Re: Parents can now face jail time if their child is a bully

Originally Posted by Zavon

Unless I'm misunderstanding, I think he was saying they got the idea from Freshman, who also did it. Its really fucked how cruel kids can be, and I think he's right about how there needs to be more supervision.

However, on the other-hand I'm torn because all the shit I see happening at schools these days makes me want less teacher intervention.

I never once had a teacher say anything to me about politics, except a science teacher who spent one token day talking about creationism/ID vs evolution then went back to science and he made it clear it was only because he had to. Did you get indoctrinated into bullshit in high school? Or is that a college level thing?

I'm sure Marou would say my history and English classes are super politicized and they probably were, but I retained almost nothing from history or English class. I'm sitting here thinking back as broadly as possible and I remember nothing except 9/11 happening while I was in "social studies" class. Being made to read books almost certainly did me some good but again, I don't remember anything about the books we read beyond some of their titles.

Nowadays when people start to get killed by fireballs, no one says they need to dodge the fireball anymore; they say they need to go get a fire resist ring and some ice damage so they don't have to.

Re: Parents can now face jail time if their child is a bully

Originally Posted by VKhaun

I never once had a teacher say anything to me about politics, except a science teacher who spent one token day talking about creationism/ID vs evolution then went back to science and he made it clear it was only because he had to. Did you get indoctrinated into bullshit in high school? Or is that a college level thing?

I'm sure Marou would say my history and English classes are super politicized and they probably were, but I retained almost nothing from history or English class. I'm sitting here thinking back as broadly as possible and I remember nothing except 9/11 happening while I was in "social studies" class. Being made to read books almost certainly did me some good but again, I don't remember anything about the books we read beyond some of their titles.

Nah, I wasn't exposed to much bullshit during my years either. I think this is a much more recent effect-- you won't believe me, but I considered myself a liberal for most of my life. It seems like they are hard pushing this pronoun and anti-american bullshit in like the past.. well Obama years... I think they try to ban the shit I read as a kid (like Red badge of Courage, Fahrenheit 451, etc.). I saw an article the other day that was asking kids in 5th grade what their sexual identity was, or something. And the teachers doing shit like going on anti-Trump rants, etc... K-12 and Universities are doing this crap.

Edit: OH! I only was exposed to the bullshit twice in my life. Once in the police academy (around 2001), where I earned a certificate in "diversity"... It was a horrible class that both the whites and blacks resented and laguhed about afterward. And once in college, I took a sociology class which was a Russian lady that spent the entire class time ranting about Karl Marx being necessary in the US and the benefits of Heroin. It was very, very strange. I had to show up to class in uniform once, and she glared at me hatefully from that point forward. I ended up dropping the course.

Last edited by Zavon; 10-13-2017 at 04:39 PM.

"Doubt is not an agreeable condition, but certainty is an absurd one." ~ Voltaire

2 Kings 2:23-24: "....Then two bears came out of the woods and mauled forty-two of the boys."