Re: They slipped in a GAME CHANGER!

Originally Posted by AzulFuegO

Class Mechanics
Q: How will haste affect channeled spells. Will it be similar to DoTs and HoTs?
A: They will channel faster but their duration will remain unchanged. You will get more ticks on the same cast.

If I am not mistaken this will mean our main filler Mind flay will now have a full 3 sec duration but have extra ticks due to haste.

Alright, so far so good.

Originally Posted by AzulFuegO

That is huge for game play and giving much more viability to Mind spike the new nuke when it will do about the same damage but only "root" you for 1.5 sec. This means when we can't afford to be stuck channeling a spell in one spot the alternative filler may be the new mind spike which we will now be able to cast 2 or more in the same time it will take to cast 1 mind flay. What do you guys think this will do to our rotations or game play?

This is the part where I struggle being able to understand you. How does mind flay being buffed make mind spike more viable?
I get what you mean about using it as cast on the move, since you can't mind flay while moving, but yea, der. : p

Re: They slipped in a GAME CHANGER!

Anyone know the mechanics behind MF ticks? Is the first tick instant, the 2nd coming at half duration and the 3rd coming at the end? Or are the ticks spread evenly over the duration with the first one not being instant? If someone can answer that, that would be appreciated.

It is a buff in the sense that you're getting more MF ticks over the same duration, but a nerf since it will decrease the accuracy of MF clipping. It will also cause even more haste "soft spots".

Re: They slipped in a GAME CHANGER!

Originally Posted by fabian

Anyone know the mechanics behind MF ticks? Is the first tick instant, the 2nd coming at half duration and the 3rd coming at the end? Or are the ticks spread evenly over the duration with the first one not being instant? If someone can answer that, that would be appreciated.

It is a buff in the sense that you're getting more MF ticks over the same duration, but a nerf since it will decrease the accuracy of MF clipping. It will also cause even more haste "soft spots".

With no haste, the first tick happens 1 second after you start the channel, second tick happend 2 seconds after, and the final tick at the very end.

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Re: They slipped in a GAME CHANGER!

With no haste, the first tick happens 1 second after you start the channel, second tick happend 2 seconds after, and the final tick at the very end.

Thanks, now to find out those "soft spots".

1 tps, with the tick coming at the end of the second. So to get 4 ticks in 3 seconds, you'd need 0.75s between each tick. That comes to be 33.33% haste which is what Weena2 said. That means each added tick comes at 66.66%, 100% and so forth.

Re: They slipped in a GAME CHANGER!

and that 33,33% might be exactly the only sweetspot in cataclysm. if imp mb stays the same you would go back to a mb-5.5s-mb rotation. in this 5.5 seconds there would be space for 1 full-duration mindflay (3 seconds) and two 1.25 second casts like mindspike, vt or dp (they should be at 1.125s with 33% haste, add reaction time and it should be nearly perfect).

so, as it stands now, 33%raidbuffed might be a "cap". but this is pure speculation, we don't know anything about scaling or talents and it will likely change multiple times within the next 6 months.

Re: They slipped in a GAME CHANGER!

Originally Posted by notanarrogantwizard

and that 33,33% might be exactly the only sweetspot in cataclysm. if imp mb stays the same you would go back to a mb-5.5s-mb rotation. in this 5.5 seconds there would be space for 1 full-duration mindflay (3 seconds) and two 1.25 second casts like mindspike, vt or dp (they should be at 1.125s with 33% haste, add reaction time and it should be nearly perfect).

so, as it stands now, 33%raidbuffed might be a "cap". but this is pure speculation, we don't know anything about scaling or talents and it will likely change multiple times within the next 6 months.

Yes, it is a sweetspot, but our dots will have one for trash/quick dying bosses/adds, but who cares about that? But getting more than 33% haste will still be beneficial, especially since at 66.67% haste, you'll get another tick. Even then, there is also the "dead" time, in which if you have time left of a channel without any damage. You can easily just start casting another MF after the 3rd tick. They could also make channeled spells act like dots, in which recasting MF while casting MF will add to the duration, which will help with MF channeling code causing lag to affect it more than usual.

Re: They slipped in a GAME CHANGER!

66.66% haste is basically not reachable (except with power infusion or bloodlust) and therefore no one will build gearsets that rely on this hastevalue.

i do understand your idea of recasting for mf but i don't think it will (or can) be implemented. dottime will be added if there already is the same dot from the same person on the target, but this won't work with mindflay as the first channel is interrupted when you cast the second. even if it would work, you will have do calculate whether its worth it. just use 50% haste (which is achievable in a raid environment) as an example (4.5 tick within the base 3 seconds casttime). you would have to cast two full mindflays to see an additional tick, delaying mindblast for 0.5 seconds.

the question is: will it be better to delay mindblast for an additional mindflaytick per rotation, while having to gear for 50% haste raidbuffed (which will, of course, also increase your dotdps) or will it be better to gear for 33.33% haste, casting 2 mindspikes and only 1 full-duration-mf with 4 ticks, while having the itemisation points for increased critrating or even int (for spellpower)?

we can't answer this question right now, as we don't know anything about scaling. it is worth considering, but 50% haste, even raidbuffed, might not be achieved until the very last cataclysm tier.

Re: They slipped in a GAME CHANGER!

66.67% haste is unreachable, yes, but limiting yourself to only 33.33% haste will have a negative effect on your dps. Even if they do not use the dot clipping mechanics for channeled spells, recasting the channeled spell after the final tick will allow for you to get another MF in the CD of MB, even if you do not clip the second one after the final tick. At 50% raid buffed, your last tick will hit at 2.67s, which will mean you're only delaying MB for .17s, which means MB will hit around 6.67s, which is pretty good for keeping MB on CD.

Re: They slipped in a GAME CHANGER!

Originally Posted by Mix

While I don't play a shadowpriest (warlock main) was thinking about our current affliction execute being a drain spell. I think overall it will be the same because we routinely interupt ours after ticks to refresh dots so I would assume this is the same for Priests. You "may" have to move during your channel for whatever reason but you should be getting the same ticks during that time as you would have if the duration was shortened.

Your "mind spike" spell may have a cooldown to prevent it from being a filler, or they may implement mind flay as an execute type spell so you have essentially one spell before 25% and one spell after to "nuke" with.

Remember when all this hits the beta they will see how viable the spells/changes really are.

For Wrath the warlock final talents in affliction got changed 3 times before they settled on one...(personally the aoe corruption dot should be implemented, no different than dk's spreading their diseases to all the targets)

sw:d is supposedly gonna be the execute but nothing will ever replace rolling dots + MF unless they change the mechanics of spriests entirely

maybe just below 25%, it's a dps increase to replace a tick of MF with sw:d

mind spike is the same damage as MF with SW:P on the target, just without having to use an extra GCD to do it

Re: They slipped in a GAME CHANGER!

Just like the warrior execute, which is just used as a ragedump when all ur other stuff is on cooldown?

It already has a cooldown. If it isn't worth the GCD in terms of casting it, then we just wouldn't cast it and it would remain a dead spell.

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Re: They slipped in a GAME CHANGER!

I don't like it. As people mentioned before, the original shorten channel time type of haste will benefit us regardless of how much haste we have. But this new "more tick" mechanism is sketchy. How much haste do you need to get one extra tick? If you have anything less, the amount of haste is pretty much useless for that particular spell. Not to mention you are rooted to the ground while channeling the 3 full seconds. The only benefit I see is perhaps mana conservation, which isn't particularly interesting.

Re: They slipped in a GAME CHANGER!

Originally Posted by Xel

I don't like it. As people mentioned before, the original shorten channel time type of haste will benefit us regardless of how much haste we have. But this new "more tick" mechanism is sketchy. How much haste do you need to get one extra tick? If you have anything less, the amount of haste is pretty much useless for that particular spell. Not to mention you are rooted to the ground while channeling the 3 full seconds. The only benefit I see is perhaps mana conservation, which isn't particularly interesting.

I thought the same. The mechanic is really sketchy for channeled spells.

MF without any haste has 3 ticks at 1, 2, 3 seconds each.
With 20% haste you would have ticks at (lets say) 0.8, 1.6 and 2,4 seconds. What happens for the 0,6 seconds that are left to fill the 3 seconds channel? It's just fancy mindflay animation without doing anything? LOL? So we would be supposed to probably clip the MF exactly after 2,4 seconds (in this example) for max dps?

Dunno this handling for channeled spells just seems strange because you will always have a bit at the end where nothing happens but animation. And the DPS (or rather damage per execute time) of the channeled spell will not be improved at all. And then suddenly when you reach the magic haste barrier, you'll get another right right at the end of the 3 seconds channel which will make the DPS/DPET of the spell suddenly take a rather huge jump.

Strange scaling...

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Re: They slipped in a GAME CHANGER!

Originally Posted by AetherMcLoud

I thought the same. The mechanic is really sketchy for channeled spells.

MF without any haste has 3 ticks at 1, 2, 3 seconds each.
With 20% haste you would have ticks at (lets say) 0.8, 1.6 and 2,4 seconds. What happens for the 0,6 seconds that are left to fill the 3 seconds channel? It's just fancy mindflay animation without doing anything? LOL? So we would be supposed to probably clip the MF exactly after 2,4 seconds (in this example) for max dps?

Dunno this handling for channeled spells just seems strange because you will always have a bit at the end where nothing happens but animation. And the DPS (or rather damage per execute time) of the channeled spell will not be improved at all. And then suddenly when you reach the magic haste barrier, you'll get another right right at the end of the 3 seconds channel which will make the DPS/DPET of the spell suddenly take a rather huge jump.

Strange scaling...

It is the same way with Dots, but on a much smaller scale. No one knows what they're going to do, we can only speculate. They could make it so casting another MF causes the duration to increase, they could also just leave it as it is, allowing for skilled priests to clip MF after the final tick to get max dps. They've got many options to try out.

Originally Posted by Xel

I don't like it. As people mentioned before, the original shorten channel time type of haste will benefit us regardless of how much haste we have. But this new "more tick" mechanism is sketchy. How much haste do you need to get one extra tick? If you have anything less, the amount of haste is pretty much useless for that particular spell. Not to mention you are rooted to the ground while channeling the 3 full seconds. The only benefit I see is perhaps mana conservation, which isn't particularly interesting.

The extra tick was already found out, twice. Also, every spell with a cast time "roots" you to the ground, so I don't understand how that will be a problem in the future and is not now.