I voted for neither... I think that coding the cannons as starts is a more interesting option, as doing so wouldn't interrupt any of the current features of this map (which are quite good).

Option 1: I think you had it right with the +2 bonuses for the cannon sets. +2 seems appropriate for the map and for the size of the bonuses, and it's easy to explain in the legend and easy to understand as a player.

Option 2: Right now I believe you have 42 territories; coding five cannons neutral means you are down to 37, which is an awkward start. 37 means a four or six player game will have 6 neutrals to start, a five or seven player game will have 5, and an eight player game will start with 10 neutrals across the board. And you wouldn't even need to code all three cannons in each set - you could code just two in each set and the third would be assigned randomly, maintaining the possibility of a player getting two cannons in one set.

oaktown wrote:code ALL of the cannons into three starting positions. In a three player game each player will start with one cannon of each color; in a two player game each player with start with one cannon of each color and the remaining third will be split among the two players and the neutral; in games with four or more players the start tags will be ignored which is fine since the odds of dropping a bonus are lower in larger games anyway, and if one player does drop a bonus it is easier for multiple players do do something about it.

i like this solution the best (although it's not in the poll), with 1-4-7-10 second.

the option for 5 starting neutrals will make a map of 37 starting territories, which is a very bad number for 2-player games (the most common type) because the first player can reduce the second player's deployment to 3 armies if he wins only one of his territories.

oaktown wrote:code ALL of the cannons into three starting positions. In a three player game each player will start with one cannon of each color; in a two player game each player with start with one cannon of each color and the remaining third will be split among the two players and the neutral; in games with four or more players the start tags will be ignored which is fine since the odds of dropping a bonus are lower in larger games anyway, and if one player does drop a bonus it is easier for multiple players do do something about it.

i like this solution the best (although it's not in the poll), with 1-4-7-10 second.

the option for 5 starting neutrals will make a map of 37 starting territories, which is a very bad number for 2-player games (the most common type) because the first player can reduce the second player's deployment to 3 armies if he wins only one of his territories.

ian.

I voted for the bonus change but must agree with iancanton, coding the cannons into start positions seems the better course. I dislike the neutrals idea, and leaving the bonus alone means, I think, that there need be no changes to the two maps, just the xml.

oaktown wrote:code ALL of the cannons into three starting positions. In a three player game each player will start with one cannon of each color; in a two player game each player with start with one cannon of each color and the remaining third will be split among the two players and the neutral; in games with four or more players the start tags will be ignored which is fine since the odds of dropping a bonus are lower in larger games anyway, and if one player does drop a bonus it is easier for multiple players do do something about it.

I'm not against it but can someone show how you code it and i'll add the option to the poll

Poll result:How should we adapt the gameplay for reducing the guns bonus advantage in the initial drop?

1/5 - changing GUNS BONUS scale in "+1 +4 +7 +10 victory" that would be +1 first set of three +3 each following set1/5 - making START NEUTRAL one of each set as following Bavaria, Preussen, Spanische Niederlande, Österreich, Münster3/5 - code ALL 15 guns into three starting positions; 2 or 3 players game each start with one of each color; 4 or more players the start tags will be ignored

<positions> <position> <territory>a</territory> ... one of each colour of gun territories </position> <position> <territory>a</territory> ... one of each colour of gun territories </position> <position> <territory>a</territory> ... one of each colour of gun territories </position></positions>

Next, I believe the plan was to code ALL of the cannons as start positions, yes? That way in a three player game each player will drop one of each color, and in a two player game you could drop 2. I believe it works like this (and I don't the names of the guns, so bear with me) with three "positions" and five guns in each position, as follows:

pamoa wrote:me neither am I familiar with this features of xmlI did what I was toldis it because there is only 3 set of starting positions coded ?

Yes, I believe that's the case. This prevents any player starting with a set in 2 and 3 player games (where otherwise the odds were roughly 1 in 3 for a set to be dropped). For 4 or more players it was decided that the odds of dropping a set were acceptable and any advantage minimal with the larger number of players.

Approximate odds are : 4 player - 1 in 5; 5 player - 1 in 8; 6 player - 1 in 11; 7 player - 1 in 17; 8 player - 1 in 33.