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In my expereince, there are TGPers that don't "HEAR" at all.
some actually buy based on what they can resell.

I personally know of several here that buy up Tims and Timmys as soon as they hit the stores JUST so they can resell on ebay at a higher price.

so yes, its is exactly like That. they buy what they can sell.. just like Harley Davidson owners.

Yeah - I've seen the same guy sell Timmys over and over again on ebay. He makes a quick buck, and I deal with the back lash about the wait times and hype. I've even seen people say I was behind it because the same ebay names sell them over and over again so they must be getting them from me. I could have lost a dealer who was upset by this rumor. It's really fun seeing the stupid threads about "I see a lot of Timmys on ebay - everybody must be dumping them". A lot of this is due to what the scalpers are doing. But I get it - it's all about making a buck and screw what happens to others.

Yeah - I've seen the same guy sell Timmys over and over again on ebay. He makes a quick buck, and I deal with the back lash about the wait times and hype. I've even seen people say I was behind it because the same ebay names sell them over and over again so they must be getting them from me. I could have lost a dealer who was upset by this rumor. It's really fun seeing the stupid threads about "I see a lot of Timmys on ebay - everybody must be dumping them". A lot of this is due to what the scalpers are doing. But I get it - it's all about making a buck and screw what happens to others.

PaulC
tim/Timmy pedals
myspace.com/paulcaudio

That is a huge bummer. Reminds me of the situation with concert tickets and scalpers.

Even if the klones are made of all the same stuff---make them electronically identical, theoretically---they do SOUND different; stating otherwise is incredibly confusing to me! It stinks of frequency deafness...or trolling, dare I say...

Let's assume that both facts are true. Klone_X is built identically to a Klon: same parts, same wiring, etc. And yet, yes, the two pedals sound different.

Here's the part I find amusing. There are mountains of scientific evidence—data upon data, study after study—proving that perception is affected by external factors. Packaging design can make food taste different. The size of a room can make an object seem warmer or cooler. Et cetera. This is established fact. It isn't even controversial. It's something we have known about the brain for a long time.

But among the small world of guitarists, everybody still thinks the world is flat. Guitar Joe will insist, "The Klon sounds different...because of the diodes!" It's not because Joe knows it's an original Klon. No, that knowledge couldn't possibly affect what he is hearing. Likewise, the pedal cannot possibly sound different to Joe because Joe paid $800 for it. No, these factors don't affect him. He is special. It sounds different because he has better ears, and if his bandmate can't hear the difference then his bandmate's ears must suck.

And another thing: I HATE the all-knowing, self-important tone that some of TGP radiates. What makes someone state their opinion as fact? Even if the klones are made of all the same stuff---make them electronically identical, theoretically---they do SOUND different; stating otherwise is incredibly confusing to me! It stinks of frequency deafness...or trolling, dare I say...

Wow...that's a pretty self-important troll-job of a statement, all on its own. (Sorry...couldn't resist.)

As for the AF sounding different than your Klon, of course it does. So does every other Klon. But they're all in the same ballpark, for sure. So...what was your point?

Quote:

It's fine to prefer the new guitar, don't get me wrong. It's fine if it plays easier and you think it sounds better---doesn't offend me. I personally prefer gibsons from the fifties and early sixties. Do they happen to be collectible? Yep. Expensive? Unfortunately, yes. Are they easy players? Not always! But I prefer the sound of my '58 junior. I played and owned lots of these old slab gibsons (all fantastic-sounding guitars, fwiw) to find the one that was just right...for me. I've spent lots of money on these guitars. I tried to prefer something less pricey. In the end, I prioritized the '58 jr and my '64 j45 and sold off everything else to keep them. Because they're the guitars that SOUND the way that I want them to sound. If I play a modern junior that sounds like mine, I'll buy it, sell my "overpriced" vintage guitar, and have LOTS of money to spare. Until then, I'll keep playing the old guitars (and wishing that supply and demand didn't keep prices high).

You'll get no argument from me here...but guitars and pedals are very different things. A guitar ages and improves as it's played...so guitars that have been around a long time (and have been played) are generally going to sound better than anything fresh off the assembly line. Pedals don't generally work that way. Except for a little drifting of components, a vintage pedal is going to sound the same as it did when it was "born". So...if you use those exact same components to build another pedal, it's not going to be too far off...no matter what name it goes under.

__________________That, detective, is the right question. Program terminated.

Let's assume that both facts are true. Klone_X is built identically to a Klon: same parts, same wiring, etc. And yet, yes, the two pedals sound different.

Here's the part I find amusing. There are mountains of scientific evidence—data upon data, study after study—proving that perception is affected by external factors. Packaging design can make food taste different. The size of a room can make an object seem warmer or cooler. Et cetera. This is established fact. It isn't even controversial. It's something we have known about the brain for a long time.

But among the small world of guitarists, everybody still thinks the world is flat. Guitar Joe will insist, "The Klon sounds different...because of the diodes!" It's not because Joe knows it's an original Klon. No, that knowledge couldn't possibly affect what he is hearing. Likewise, the pedal cannot possibly sound different to Joe because Joe paid $800 for it. No, these factors don't affect him. He is special. It sounds different because he has better ears, and if his bandmate can't hear the difference then his bandmate's ears must suck.

To be fair, this phenomenon doesn't affect all people equally. And an A/B box does wonders at eliminating any residue of doubt.

__________________That, detective, is the right question. Program terminated.

[QUOTE=DT7;13051931]Wow...that's a pretty self-important troll-job of a statement, all on its own. (Sorry...couldn't resist.)

As for the AF sounding different than your Klon, of course it does. So does every other Klon. But they're all in the same ballpark, for sure. So...what was your point?

Is this a rhetorical question? In case it isn't, I'll say it bluntly: the aluminum falcon is brighter and thinner than the klon. It still sounds great, but its voicing is brighter than that of the klon.

__________________TONS of good deals here, the LPF, the Vintage Drum Forum...

Let's assume that both facts are true. Klone_X is built identically to a Klon: same parts, same wiring, etc. And yet, yes, the two pedals sound different.

Here's the part I find amusing. There are mountains of scientific evidence—data upon data, study after study—proving that perception is affected by external factors. Packaging design can make food taste different. The size of a room can make an object seem warmer or cooler. Et cetera. This is established fact. It isn't even controversial. It's something we have known about the brain for a long time.

But among the small world of guitarists, everybody still thinks the world is flat. Guitar Joe will insist, "The Klon sounds different...because of the diodes!" It's not because Joe knows it's an original Klon. No, that knowledge couldn't possibly affect what he is hearing. Likewise, the pedal cannot possibly sound different to Joe because Joe paid $800 for it. No, these factors don't affect him. He is special. It sounds different because he has better ears, and if his bandmate can't hear the difference then his bandmate's ears must suck.

You find this amusing? I find your post to be insulting. My hearing isn't subject to the suggestion of collectible status or arrogance.

The brighter AF isn't inherently better or worse sounding---that's a matter of preference---but they are different...even if the margin isn't all that great (which is another subjective point, right?). My comparison is based upon using the pedals through the same amp with the same guitars---in the same rooms. They sound different. They both sound great and I really enjoy using the falcon---but I wish that I still had my klon. So am I a member of the Flat Earth Society?

__________________TONS of good deals here, the LPF, the Vintage Drum Forum...

I'll say it bluntly: the aluminum falcon is brighter and thinner than the klon. It still sounds great, but its voicing is brighter than that of the klon.

What sample size are you basing your statement on? I've played three Klons in my day (2 at the same time through the same amp, one of which I owned...the third was a different time/place/amp so perhaps its not as good of an example) and they were each slightly different yet close. I've never played a clone so I can't comment on those. So, being a reasonably intelligent individual (for a guitar player anyway), I have to ask...can you be certain that all aluminum falcons are brighter and thinner than real Klons, or are you basing your opinion off of a singular experience?

I've owned the Klon and Aluminum Falcon. One is not brighter or thinner than the other, and they both have a very similar feel and response. The AF is a bit more neutral, or transparent. Problem is trying to get an AF is almost as hard as getting the Klon. At least the price is right.

I find your post to be insulting. My hearing isn't subject to the suggestion of collectible status...

On one hand, I'm not trying to insult anybody. I post with a smile; whatever our disagreements, we are all guitarists and that's pretty cool.

But on the other hand, if I'm reading you right, it sounds like you're basically saying, "Yup, I'm with Guitar Joe. No matter how much evidence may exist to prove that perception is affected by external factors, I am different. An item's cost or status cannot possibly affect my perception." In which case...well, I can understand why you'd feel insulted but I'm not sure what to tell you about it. Science apologizes?