We were discussing the colourful history of Punks and how the glue hold came into being. With the strict rules of the area should we as a climbing community, proud of its claim to have the first 32 in the world remove the glue and bring it back to the way it was when the first ascent was done in 1985 by Güllich. It is a mystery and very difficult to believe that the claim of "the hold crumbled away" was excepted. Why was a new, completely different hold created to replace a somewhat pretty solid piece of fine sandstone? I would say that those whom have done the climb since the addition of the glue can not claim a true ascent. When it was done with the UIAA grade of 10+ was given (32) now it is consider only 31. Should we remove the glue and let those who are strong enough truly climb punks in the Gym?

Maybe a bit more research by you will uncover the true story of the glued on hold.
I suggest you actually talk to someone who has done the climb before talking about re-removing the
glued on hold, just my 2 cents here as I have not done the climb, but know at least 3 people who have,
and have talked with them regarding the hold that was pulled off, and replacement of that piece of rock.

I'm with you wattie..I can see it now...an angry mob masses in the carpark near the superman boulder. There's pitchforks, megaphones and placards like "No more glue" and "Save Punks". Some Nati locals bring their kids along so it looks good for TV. We all march up to the base of Punks, waving and yelling and chanting. There's a pre-placed static line so you, our leader, can jug up and ceremoniously smash off the said glued hold. The crowd goes nuts. The world is saved....

Ah 'The Hole' at Norton Summit. From my visit there a few years ago, I now know what goes through the mind of an unsuspecting pedestrian with Godzilla looming above them. A kind of gut wrenching mixture of awe and disgusted horror.

On 1/10/2008 oweng wrote:>Ah 'The Hole' at Norton Summit. From my visit there a few years ago, I>now know what goes through the mind of an unsuspecting pedestrian with>Godzilla looming above them. A kind of gut wrenching mixture of awe and>disgusted horror.

I like you"re idea there Hipster, maybe we could have some fireworks and a brass band at the moment the hammer strikes the glue, and we can sell the rights the channel 9 for a couple of mil.
But in all seriousness, the question that came up from our original discussion was how certain we can be certain that the original hold is completely gone. There is no way in hell that the lump of glue there now is anything like the original not only have I seen that bad boy, but I've seen the picture of wolfgang holding the original and its looks nothing like it. In fact the original from what I can ascertain from said classic picture (complete with short shorts and porn mo) the hold looks like a small possibly flat crimp on top of a bum type formation, not something that would break easily especially given that it is bullet hard sandstone quartzose.
So we have 3 scenarios:
1)The original broke completely and we'll have to make do with the glue
2) the original broke partially but could be climbed in its original form after removal of the glue
3) The original is still there and never broke at all and in fact the glue was just Pollit's legacy to Australian climbing.
Given scenarios 2 or 3, would it not be better to have the route in "natural" unadulterated form? Rather than using what is basically a point of aid.

Ah yes, there is that small detail. If that's the case then I rest my argument, but there has been doubt cast over whether the hold was actually chipped in the first place. Some argue that Scheel had strict ethics and would not do such a thing.

On 2/10/2008 wattie wrote:>Ah yes, there is that small detail. If that's the case then I rest my>argument, but there has been doubt cast over whether the hold was actually>chipped in the first place. Some argue that Scheel had strict ethics and>would not do such a thing.

Yes, he wasn't chipping, just giving the wall a particularly thorough cleaning. So thorough in fact it is only one of quite a few 'cleaned' holds on that climb...

The risk of removing the 'bird bath' could result in an even bigger mess!

On 1/10/2008 oweng wrote:>Ah 'The Hole' at Norton Summit. From my visit there a few years ago, I>now know what goes through the mind of an unsuspecting pedestrian with>Godzilla looming above them. A kind of gut wrenching mixture of awe and>disgusted horror.