So they are claiming BKism can overcoming all of the world's environmental problems ... just in time for the world to be destroyed by a nuclear war and natural disasters that will sink 4.5 of the world's continents?

Explain the benefits of that to me?

oldbk wrote:Do not hesitate to Meditate on material things. Just ignore, what Baba tells you in the Murli ... that's just for reading.

Yes, it's another case of "other people are doing it and making money/gaining interest and prestige, so we'll do it too". It's the BKs' modus operandi.

None of it is a new idea. It's all second hand or borrowed and then re-packaged in BK marketing as a way of drawing people in, eg they invited Masaru Emoto to a conference (water experiments), next they can tricks with water. Mix it up with a bit of Matthew Manning who has also been courted (psychic influences making seeds and plants grow), and and a bit of Masanobu Fukuoka (natural farming) and, bingo, you've got "Sustainable Yogic Farming" targeting India's farming communities.

The TM people beat them to it with their Vedic Organic Agriculture. I suppose as like appealing to their marks' Krishna heritage, it works because it appeals to their vedic heritage. It feels familiar.

The creator, The sustainer, world transformer, The supreme cultivator, The supreme power, God Father has inspired us such that the existing problems in contemporary farming can be easily overcome through spirituality and by the practice of RajYoga Meditation. This will benefit the self as well as society. The Everlasting Yogic Farming Project is a new step towards a new era which has been initiated by Almighty's blessings.

From an old school BK point of view, it does raise questions, ie is it actually BKism or is just developing/using psychic powers?

Would never have happened in my day, it would have been seen as distraction, probably wasting or "spending" good karmas acrued.

The group also claimed that ‘yogic agriculture’ could fight all the problems that the convention wants to address in this 12-day event that began Monday in Greater Noida.

None of the members of the group, however, provided any scientific explanations to substantiate their claims, only relying on out-of-context quotes of German physicist Max Planck, French philosopher René Descartes and Sadhguru to validate their ideas.

All just business as usual. Exploiting people curiousity in order to teach them meditation.

Curiously, they say, "Remote application of the energy from 7400 km was found not to impact seedling development".

Paying to be seen and keep up the front. A chance to network with "Important People".

It's a bit of a 'bait and switch' con really, as all of the separate parts are likely to give some benefits by themselves while, at the same time, they are not doing any proper scientific research, eg double blind studies, to prove *their* part is the magic ingredient.

I have a 28m sq. back yard of lawn laid down about 18 months ago. All brand new soil, turf of one solid variety, watered and established. But now the quality has gone very patchy. I could cut out different sections and put a label on them and say - I had body conscious thoughts standing on this visibly poor section of grass and soul conscious thoughts on this lush section - and no one could prove me wrong!

The level of misinterpretation and miscommunication in the messages coming from different centers, BKs keeps reaching new heights daily. Each Center, BK Seniors (really !), have so much disconnect that each one sends out different messages and signals which in total is in contradiction with that they read in the daily Murli.

There is no requirement for authentication and fact-checking other than "I say so - so it is". That has now come to this, "yogic agriculture" (nonsense). George Orwell's 1984 clearly portrays this from many years ago.

Sure their karmic accounts, by their own terms, will get them 100 fold, both physically and mentally ... Should look at their own "leaders", past and present ...

Do you mean BK Seniors are saying BK yogic agriculture is nonsense? Or that yogic agriculture is nonsense?

One element within BKism criticising other elements within BKism is nothing new. We were told some Seniors were very critical of SpARC, their quasi-scientific wing and were warning others off it.

I don't know BK yogic agriculture's specific history but with the BKs nothing can stray that far from their core agenda. Such projects normally fit within a couple of categories; a marketing tool to appeal to a specific demographic and as an outlet for some BKs', often starting with a more enlightened Western bored by BKism's limits, outside interests. In this case, organic or "Natural Farming" (Fukuoka style, which has a strong following in India).

That's to say, on one hand it's a tool to draw in the curious under some other guise than the 7 Day Course; on the other hand, it's an escape from the humdrum existence of Murli plus teaching the 7 Day Course.

But, at the end of the day, it's not about actual agriculture. It's not about seed yeilds. And although, obviously, I support any environmentally sustainable or "greening" project, it's a bit pointless and contradictory for a cult who hopes to ”inspire by Yoga power” a world destruction through nuclear war.

For some time the BKs had outreach programmes targeting farmers, usually on smoking/substance abuse/suicide angles. Again, I don't know the specific history of how, when and why these started (normally farmers are poor, so not on the BKs' main radar) but I can see how this gives them another outreach device, another "geewhiz" sale pitch. Maybe it was just about having to be seen to do something good, maybe it's about government funding? I cannot say.

But if, say, as someone has recently done, someone comes along and discovers another way of significantly increasing seed yeilds more reliably than they can ... without the need for yogi-ing at the rice grains ... would the BKs ditch their practise and adopt the better one?

Of course not.

And then from a strict BK point of view, is there anything in the Murlis etc that says any of it is actually BK Raja Yoga and of any good karmically, other than for recruiting?

Do you mean BK Seniors are saying BK yogic agriculture is nonsense? Or that yogic agriculture is nonsense?

To start with, the "nonsense" relates to BKs even venturing into areas that is not related to their BK Raja Yoga (so a fundamental problem). But then if they want to expand into other areas ... very well ... redefine what your Raja Yoga is ... stop putting down others who "don't follow your pretentions" and "call out your bluff".

Then comes the point of "yogic agriculture". If BKs are able to produce more with agrictulture/rice products with "Yoga", take it up in full swing and produce a "ton of agriculture products" and show it to the world.

Stop the video show and fooling the naive. Use the Avyakt BapData Milan dates to perform "yogic agriculture" and nothing else. At least, do some justice to the amount of intake you have daily ... starting with Morning Coffee/Tea/Milk, Breakfast/Tiffin, Snacks, Lunch, Evening Coffee/Tea/Milk, Snacks (rice puffs etc), Dinner ... Excuse me ... how many meals is that ... and I am sure it is not resulting any health issues or becoming bigger (!).

All this together, and more will come under this yogic nonsense.

And then from a strict BK point of view, is there anything in the Murlis etc that says any of it is actually BK Raja Yoga and of any good karmically, other than for recruiting?

Absolutely not. The Murli classes and points have already become irrelevant ... which is why they started the Murli experiment in July ... coming down to "base" experiences ... How about "keeping a chart". Can/Will any of the BK Seniors come out and show their daily chart that they are supposed maintain ... Simple summary?

Murli Experiment is to show the failure of years of lack of practice (Dharna). Only preaching and no practice. What does that mean.... have to explicitly tell people, since there is no visible change or divine qualities !!!!

Murli Experiments’, an innovative addition to each day’s Murli, will be starting from 1 July.

Each day an RC or senior will be sharing their own personal practices and experiences of the Murli that is being read on that day. This will take the form of a 10 min audio recording which will be available on the official madhubanmurli.org website and mobile app.

We know the incredible power and wisdom of both the Sakar and the Avyakt Murlis. This experiment is to inspire the family using the Murlis in a new way that is highly relevant to the current times. Baba often says, ‘Do this and you will get this result – ‘Children this is the attainment you will receive if you do this practice.’ Or ‘Spin the discus of self-realisation and you will become a self-sovereign’, or ‘By focusing on the positive you will become carefree’ etc.

Murli Experiments is not a standard Murli revision as such. It will allow us to see clearly the impact of the various experiments that Baba offers us through the Murli, which can in turn inspire an increased variety and depth in our own spiritual experiments.

Murli Experiments begins on 1 July and runs for a pilot period of three months.

- More BS. Contagious delusion based on the idea that if a teacher says ”I remembered this point during the day and it felt good” but takes over 10 minutes with a lot of jargon to say it, that this means anything to anyone else or anything other than it kept the teacher out of mischief and asks the listener to affirm ”how good am I?” i.e how wonderful was the teacher who did that (when the student probably had responsibilities and duties like work, family, bills etc to deal with.

Lots of people have good days and can feel good through their own practices, or just by being decent people. Thsi ‘experiment’ is just another kind of internal advertising, a way to create engagement with BK stuff and distract or divert from (divert ‘from' - advert ‘to’) other things of value and interest .

It also says to the listener that if they had a bad day - or even just an ordinary one with nothing remarkable to report - there’s something lacking with them, it is their fault.

Here's a non-Murli point that has worked through the ages and across cultures.

- Do to others and for others as you would have done to you and for you, don't do what you wouldn’t like done to you.

Now you can get on with living your own life instead of listening to ”Seniors’ talk about theirs and expect you to go ‘wah". Get a good sleep a little longer in the morning, feel healthier, less rushing about.

Here's a non-Murli point that has worked through the ages and across cultures.

- Do to others and for others as you would have done to you and for you, don't do what you wouldn’t like done to you.

Very true.

For the BK Seniors taking this approach would burst their elitist attitude and privileges that they have surrounded themselves with. So, neither true to their belief, or I should say ... what their belief should be ... nor are they honest enough to come out and present themselves as one more pseudo Yoga outfit, like that of Jaggi, Ravishankar, Ramdev and so many others ... it is amazing when you start listing out these outfits ... how many there are ... But then, it makes sense when you see that, to accommodate the 1.3 + billion people they need this many bogus outfits

I think for years we fooled ourselves trying to believe there was something "deep" or mystically significant to be found in the Murlis when, in fact, they were just stupefyingly boring and repetative. To me, this latest strategy, along with the perpetual whittling down of the text, is a further attempt to focus people's attention away from that into subjective "experiences".

Let's be honest, Lekhraj Kirpalani's original audience was not very bright and were entirely excluded from any other material from which to make comparisons. I mean, how many times in one life does one really need to have to be told "Krishna is not God", especially when you never believed Krishna was God?.

In the West, BKs used to make up excuses for this, like saying, "Well, you believed Krishna was God for many lives, so you need to keep hearing it to wash that away!". I also remember one leading Western BK making up magical claims that if you timed the speaking somehow it all had magically timing too, like it was a precise musical score or mathematical equation and some how the Baba was able to plan this.

What now they are all cut up and re-written?

I never got the "today we are going to experience love, tomorrow we are going to experience bliss" stuff either, like you can 'dial up' Baba and download a happiness app.

ex-l wrote: this latest strategy, along with the perpetual whittling down of the text, is a further attempt to focus people's attention away from that into subjective "experiences".

... and one day, after a few more decades of vinash stil not happening and Krisna still running late and no more Avyakt Murlis, Didis all dead, the BK machine becoming a purely online commercial enterprise, they may in their attemtps to stay relevant, eventually get it simplified down to the awareness of a very basic Buddhist meditation, which the BKs have always scorned as "simplistic".

Because, as you whittle away the extraneous and irrelevant, it does eventually come down to one's subjective experience, the appreciation of the gift of life (why it's called ’the present’ ) and what we do with it. All the rest is fluff, ribbons and wrappings.