powerbowler wrote:The Power of Now is all that is required it encompasses the law of attraction naturally.

hanss wrote:Sure. Imo, the whole loa could be summed up in a few words from ET: Get the inside right and the outside will fall in to place.

snowheight wrote:Yes, and that place may very well be right on top of your head.

Don't understand....

If you get your inside right sometimes things just flow freely and naturally with no resistance -- you meet a girl looking for ice cream with no rich boy friend, the lost remote control or your glasses fall into your lap, the people you sent your resume to call out of the blue ...

... or a piano can fall on your head.

You can never be sure. Just the way things are -- they are complicated enough to foil the expectation that inner-peace will always result in a peaceful outer manifestation from the rest of the Universe.

Contemplate the following: "good things happen to bad people"

Stop talking. Hear every sound as background. Look straight ahead and focus. Take one deep breath. This is you. This is Now.

Funny, (to my mind and most especially as one experienced with clair abilities) scepticism is a healthy and balancing and necessary thing.

for me - the more 'modern' touting of 'someone having' psychic 'powers' appears sometimes to be claiming the 'power' as your own and as something you can 'deliver on' and maybe receive benefit from on a material/form level or take 'responsibility' for things that are none of your business.

whereas the more 'traditional'/ancient/natural understanding of clair abilities (including seeing, hearing, knowing, feeling) are thought of as 'coming through you' with benefit for the 'all', even sometimes at the expense of the one through which the energy flows.

A willing instrument of ..... ( 'the hole in the flute through which the Christ's breath flows' resonates) For whatever reason, some are more 'open' and/or paying attention, and willing than some others. My own notion is a wider empathic range, and I somewhat impatiently await the 'skeptics' to look in this direction for their 'proof'.

I agree with webby, when you skew LOA or any of the laws of nature, or the healthy concept of scepticism there are cause and effect impacts.

The movie 'The Hereafter' as I've discussed in the nde, clair abilities thread shows, but I guess again to what degree is individual based on experience, that it both IS 'real' and can also be at times used as a means to an end, which is and can only be egoic.

Scepticism from the Greek literally means 'to examine'. For me it comes from a neutral position when weighing new information.

If you already have a position, you're not neutral, you need then to be convinced.pppffffttt to that (lol!!) 'God' doesn't play parlour games.

Watching someone who once was a willing instrument of other's learning become caught up in their own egoic journey and still struggling to 'deliver' is sooooo sad.

By hardening/strengthening their attachment to form they lose the fluidity and openness and resonance to be the portal. By taking credit for what is not theirs the flow diminishes equal to the claiming (eg: if you think it's yours, all you'll have is yours)

The empathic feel is of one too frightened to say as Forest Gump so wisely said "That's all I have to say about that."

Not so strangely the natural laws have their way, their accuracy diminishes as they fill in the blanks, their 'clients' notice, they become despair, some for a time clutching at straws or trying to 'act' as if 'they still have 'the power' ... they never 'had' the power, that's the point.

I'd hazard a guess using LOA in the same way would have the same natural consequences.

Interesting noticing on the change of 'feel' on Conservation with God books webby.

I can only speak for myself but i am still unsure of the relevance of The Law of Attraction to my own search for the truth[ whatever that may be].I have been attending Sunday morning meetings of The Science of Mind , the people i meet there are very genuine , in fact nice people,[ no hitlers]. I have read a couple of books by Deepak Chopra and Brian Tracy on The Law of Attraction and searched the web for any articles .I have been a Buddhist for the last twenty years or so and found Buddhism helped to satisfy my spiritual needs.When i read The Power of Now it had a great impact on me , it reverberated through me , after reading it i understood Buddhist teachings that i did not understood before. I expect you all felt that elation when you read it. The truth of it was tangible , you did not have to ask or seek others opinions , you knew. When you are shown or told a profound truth you sense it to be true, you do not have to ask.I did not have that feeling when reading or looking at articles about The Law of Attraction. My interest in it seems cold and clinical. For me it does not seem to have the warmth of Buddhism or the impact of Eckhart.My small quiet voice says investigate if you wish but investigate with awareness. I still hold to my premise that the Power of Now holds all that i will need --- BUT as Ernest Holmes [the founder of Science of Mind ] said---- Electricity was completely unknown at the time of Moses - but it existed. What other natural laws are there to be discovered.

powerbowler wrote:The Power of Now is all that is required it encompasses the law of attraction naturally.

hanss wrote:Sure. Imo, the whole loa could be summed up in a few words from ET: Get the inside right and the outside will fall in to place.

snowheight wrote:Yes, and that place may very well be right on top of your head.

Don't understand....

If you get your inside right sometimes things just flow freely and naturally with no resistance -- you meet a girl looking for ice cream with no rich boy friend, the lost remote control or your glasses fall into your lap, the people you sent your resume to call out of the blue ...

... or a piano can fall on your head.

You can never be sure. Just the way things are -- they are complicated enough to foil the expectation that inner-peace will always result in a peaceful outer manifestation from the rest of the Universe.

Contemplate the following: "good things happen to bad people"

Ah, ok.

"In today's rush we all think too much, seek too much, want too much and forget about the joy of just Being." (Eckhart Tolle)

Hi,I've been a lurker on this forum for over 2 years now, and have found it so helpful. What has prompted me to finally join and post a comment is reading all these posts about LOA - so much mental energy is going into them....LOA is incredibly seductive, I was hooked on it for years, even taught people about it and had a successful book published about using it in business. But the 'visualise what you want long enough and hard enough, and it will manifest' is an ego mind game.

The belief in the LOA fell away completely during a short period of what maybe could be called awakening. What was 'seen' clearly was that there really is no 'I' present - there is an appearance of limbs, physical sensations, thoughts, all a continuous non-separable part of the 'world scene'. (It's amazing the pointers we're being given all the time, but we just don't get their significance - such as looking at a photograph, it's just a piece of paper with different colour inks on it, but we say 'oh, that's me on holiday in Greece in 2005' - our mind creates the story). What also fell away was the belief that the apparent 'I' have any control whatsoever on what does or doesn't appear in the 'world scene'.

The ego 'I' reappeared and remains - as Adya describes in The End Of Your World, my ego was too strong. What is observed however is that since then I no longer make plans or think about the future, and so many life changes have taken place effortlessly in ways I couldn't have imagined, and so much is provided for 'me' to make things happen effortlessly. Simply, 'Let go and let God'.

The part of the LOA work that I still observe myself doing is examining 'my' resistances and beliefs - presumably to free my ego, when 'I' can't see the perfection in this moment. (Byron Katie's Work is so helpful with this.) But the rest of the LOA/The Secret is a clever ego trick, which you can avoid when it arises either by focusing back in the body, as ET says, or by asking "Who is it that wants....whatever".

Abraham Hicks take a different perspective, they shifted some years ago from talking of the "Art of Deliberate Creation" to the "Art of Allowing", and Allowing is the same as "Let go and let God". The challenge is that we can only hear what they say from our current level of understanding and interpret it accordingly. The ego can twist their words to make it suit its own agenda.

odemira wrote:Hi,I've been a lurker on this forum for over 2 years now, and have found it so helpful.

Thank you for coming out of the closet

odemira wrote:What is observed however is that since then I no longer make plans or think about the future, and so many life changes have taken place effortlessly in ways I couldn't have imagined, and so much is provided for 'me' to make things happen effortlessly. Simply, 'Let go and let God'.

This is imo the core of the Abraham version. I have not heard one word of making any plans for the future, they say that priority number 1 is alignment with Source and getting in to the Vortex and then things will unfold as they should. They have an analogy with paddling downstreams instead of upstreams, are you familiar with that one? If so, did you recognize that in your awakened state?

odemira wrote:Abraham Hicks take a different perspective, they shifted some years ago from talking of the "Art of Deliberate Creation" to the "Art of Allowing", and Allowing is the same as "Let go and let God". The challenge is that we can only hear what they say from our current level of understanding and interpret it accordingly. The ego can twist their words to make it suit its own agenda.

Yes, I have noticed that there is a big difference in the followers of Abrahams teachings. They (Hicks) often have a very hard time explaining to the "fans" that they have to let go of the thinking "when I get that thing in the future I will be happy, how do I get to the future". But some other participants are satisfied, calm and happy with everything as it is (from what I can tell) and they have got there by following Abrahams teachings. They say things like "When I started when LOA I wanted a lot of things. But now I don't care, I just love creating, living and being".

Maybe it is an illusion or belief that I have (that is getting stonger every day) but I don't think that we/humans were manifested/born/whatever so sit on park benches and "just be". We are here to live and that includes dreaming and wanting. Creating and enjoying. Why did ET rise from the park bench at all? If you are deeply in to some spiritual concepts you can say that is was "only doing" but I say that he wanted to write books, to teach, to have more joyful experiences in the human form (but without the fears and struggle).

"In today's rush we all think too much, seek too much, want too much and forget about the joy of just Being." (Eckhart Tolle)

I seem to remember that ET didn't WANT to teach, as you suggest, but that 'students' appeared and asked him questions, and thus teaching happened, and has carried on happening. Flowing downstream with whatever Life wants to happen through this body. When I am not in my mind, my body knows exactly what is to happen next.

I'm just now reading the A-H material (and remain skeptical of the whole 'channeling' deal) but am understanding that ETs "accepting" and A-H's "allowing" are similar. And yes, BK is great ("Loving What Is")

I find it interesting that the great and wondrous Abraham Group failed to emphasize the "allowing" rather than the "getting" at first. Until the nondualists came along and said - "Hey, there is no me apart from that badboy the ego." Then, apparently a big shift...what is that about???

Kind of like when Spencer Kimball, President of the LDS Church got a call from Coca-Cola who wanted to build a plant in SLC. The story goes he said "No, we don't support that kind of beverage, but let me think about it for a while." The next day, he called Coke and said that he had received a message from God that it was "just fine." Wonder of wonders.

I'm not done with my reading...will continue comments later...

Andy

A person is not a thing or a process, but an opening through which the universe manifests. - Martin HeideggerThere is not past, no future; everything flows in an eternal present. - James Joyce

Interesting comment about A-H's 'evolution' from Getting to Allowing. I've noticed a similar change in other LOA people too, like Mike Dooley of TUT, and it seems it was also experienced by Lester Levinson who created the Sedona Technique - I wonder if that's part of the 'game of life', going from feeling powerless to feeling you can control outcomes to recognising there is no-one there to control anything anyway?

Here is an invitation to read something new based on the LoA with a clean slate ... forget about "The Secret" for a second and contemplate what it would mean if "what was wished for" was something beyond a polar opposite with any selfish connotation to it.

Now I still see a tension here between the notion of a reactive Universe and the assertion that there is no such thing as choice, and will not hold with either polarity (each can be used, in the final analysis as a means for justification. of anything.), but synchronicity is as undeniable as the fallacy of a truly separate individual and there is always this nagging question of the "next step" as defined powerfully by the Zen master Albert Low in the first paragraph in his introduction to his book The Iron Cow of Zen:

What must we do? Where can we go?

It is when we awaken to the fact that we are, as it were, at the top of a one hundred foot pole that we first seriously ask these questions. Life is lived at the frontier of existence, each step a step into the unknown, each moment completely new. But we pretend there is a road of life along which we can walk, that there is an enduring world and that we can repeat things, that each breath is the same as a previous breath. We pretend all of this in the face of the overwhelming evidence to the contrary and we make believe that "reality" is an enduring something which goes from the past to the future through to the present. Sometimes, however, the road of life collapses into a point, a moment -- at the top of a hundred foot pole. The pretenses break down and we are swept by a vertigo of transcience and are filled by a fear of plunging into an abyss of nothing. A moment of true perception.

While Low describes a negative disorientation this question of the "next step" applies also to the mirror image of euphoria that can come with a glimpse past the veil, and while there are those with a permanent abiding in a state free from mis-identification with mind, free of any vestiges of a pain-body, for whom no vector is necessary, there are the rest of us, each in a state very personal and private and different from the next.

Low's context is of an awakened perspective, so play must be given to his words in that he is not referring to some individualized, egoic-based psuedo-decision.

Tolle writes about that vector. He writes that anything that increases the feeling of inner-peace and felt sense of oneness with being serves as a signpost ... so direction on this "next step" that Low writes of apparently can be had, and while "The Secret" is obviously not one of those signposts what 'Wanderer writes of seems to be so.

Stop talking. Hear every sound as background. Look straight ahead and focus. Take one deep breath. This is you. This is Now.