From the Archives: An Interview with Higaonna Sensei

Having listened
to what has been said up to now, what comes to mind is that
behind something that seems simple is hidden something which is
much deeper: in Japan, the Masters that teach who fully
understand this are few, would you agree?

Higaonna Sensei

Well, they
are few... And what is more, such concepts are not disseminated,
given that generally all the concentration is on
competitiveness.

There’s nothing wrong with
dedication to competitions, but let’s remember that Karate means
training until death. As Master Chojun used to say, once upon a
time we trained to defend our lives. And we should also train to
surpass ourselves. This, he used to say, is the real Karate.
“Karate is based on not hitting or being hit”, he would say. It
means that avoiding combat is inherently linked to peace.

We also have to remain humble. If we are about to use a force of
10, we should reduce it to 5. We should not want to fight. If we
are humble, the adversaries lose the will to attack.

And
so it was after this Master Chojun turned Karate’s focus to
Bujutsu?

Higaonna Sensei:

That is correct. Master
Chojun Miyagi didn’t use to talk of “Karate”. He called it “Ti”,
or “Bu”. He would say “Te is this, Bu is this”... It wasn’t even
ever necessary to say “Goju Ryu”. He said to use it only when
someone asked for it.

BUTE

You were
never supposed to say that you practiced Karate. You were not
supposed to show it. The only important thing was training. It
was not something to boast about: he would constantly repeat
this. Master Chojun, when faced with a drunk, would steer well
clear of him.

So as not to get involved in something?

Higaonna
Sensei: He was afraid. Not of his adversary, but of the
possibility that he might use some technique or dangerous move
without realising it. After the war, among the ruins, there were
a lot of thieves. This is why he used to always carry some
change with him. Whenever he came up against a thief, he would
give the money to them.

Was
he really against fighting to such an extent?

Higaonna
Sensei: A policeman once asked him why he behaved like that, and
he replied that the man was doing something wrong, but in this
way the situation was resolved without problems.

Another
time, in a US military area there were a lot of different
foodstuffs which hadn’t been stored away, and everybody was
going there to steal them - Even the police. And they even
claimed not to be thieves! And when they told Master Miyagi to
go there, he replied that the mountains were full of food, and
that whoever practiced “Bu” had to behave well. No matter how
hungry you were, there was no need, he said, to steal the food
of others.

He must have been an exceptional person!

Higaonna
Sensei: He maintained that everybody, sooner or later, is put to
the test. And that is precisely the moment in which whoever
practices Karate must reflect and overcome the problem by using
their intelligence.

This cannot
be traded for money or material goods. The Master taught without
charge. But if one of his students brought him tuition money, he
would ask him “So you decide how much then, do you?” [laughs]

And yet he said
that he did not want money! [laughs]

Higaonna Sensei: Yes. He
had reached such heights in the practice of Bu! This is why he
never really demonstrated the Kata much in Japan.

But that didn’t mean that he didn’t want to bring Karate to
Japan or teach it there, did it?

Higaonna Sensei: No, it wasn’t for this reason! Given
that in Japan there already existed mental aptitudes and
tendencies linked to bushido, he probably believed that once a
Kata had been taught to someone, that person should
then practice it on his own. Okinawa, on the other hand, was
full of lazy people [laughs], and he would teach people without
even trying to get them to train. In this sense, he was an
excellent teacher in Okinawa. This is why, in my opinion, only
the bare necessities were passed on in Japan.

It was just
that in Japan that Karate concentrated on the competitive
aspect. Many teachers in Japan say that their Kata is for the
competitions, or for obtaining Dan ranking [laughs]. Nowadays
the Kumite is what people concentrate on. Of course, there are
also those who still concentrate on the Kata.

Besides,
speaking of all Shotokan, there is also a Shotokan style
that is based on the figure of Sensei Nakayama and it has
distinguished itself both for the Kata and the
Kumite and is a fantastic school.

This is because there are also great teachers who emerge from
the Kata and the Kumite and the competitions.

Higaonna Sensei: Exactly. There are many exceptional
individuals.

Even among the teachers there are those such as Kanazawa of
Shotokan and Maeda of Wado-ryu who have understood the essential
nature of the
Kata and have applied
this to competitions.

Higaonna Sensei: Yes indeed, there are people who,
while teaching methods for winning competitions, nonetheless
deeply respect tradition. A Karate that is purely competitive
can only be practiced up to a certain age, in my opinion. The
point, however, is that Karate is in essence a challenge to
yourself. I think that it is a good thing that children take
part in competitions. It stimulates them to set objectives for
themselves. And when the competitions are over, that is the time
for personal training. In Okinawa too there are kids that win
high school competitions without knowing how to do the Kata.
It’s vital that we also teach the traditional aspects. I once
said that this will be the fundamental point for the future.

In Japan there are even those who maintain that the Kata are
pointless...

Higaonna Sensei: This is because they have never really
experienced what Kata are. I am still no expert, but if I try to
do a Kata to the absolute best of my ability, I realise that for
each technique, and even for each position, there emerge mental,
physical, medical, technical aspects and so many more aspects
too.

It doesn’t
matter if the Kata have a point or not: the point is that when
it comes to strengthening oneself it is difficult to create the
correct force, whereas if we discover rites that help us to move
normally, it can be created.

So we’re
talking about adapting our bodies so that we can utilise the
techniques?

Higaonna Sensei: That’s it exactly. And depending on
how we communicate, even if it isn’t easily seen, we do
strengthen both our minds and our bodies.

Those who hold the opinion that the Kata
are pointless say that they are not a simulation of
combat.

Higaonna Sensei: The blows are carried out the same
way, whether we are in a confined area or an open one, on sand
or on a mountain, in a bright place or in a dark one, the
positions and the hand techniques, but also our mental
perceptions must function well. Even our line of vision,
although it may seem to be fixed straight ahead of us, must be
aware of what’s going on in all directions.

All of this
can be developed through daily training of the Kata. Training
like this on our own is hard going! If we train every day for an
hour and a half by repeating “Gekisai dai Ichi” 100 times, it is
really tough!

Needless to
say, the next day our muscles are full of aches and pains. Every
technique must be undergone decisively. This is why it becomes a
challenge to oneself. When I was young I was good at gymnastics,
but I didn’t know how to breathe or how to use the techniques.
Bit by bit I learned how it was done.

Through repetition, right?

Higaonna Sensei: Yes. Training through repetition is
absolutely vital. Once, in Europe, I made a group throw 1000
punches while in Shiko Dachi. They were pouring with sweat. It
was a training session that consisted of nothing other than
being in Shiko Dachi and throwing punches.

At the end
of the day, a training session like that is really tough, but it
serves to develop a form of trust in terms of real sensations
and sensations of growth. This is why I always say that we must
have faith in ourselves. And also in those that are teaching us.
And also, if we push ourselves we are certain to fulfil our
objectives. If we’re told to practice 100 times, initially we’re
bound to reply that we cannot do it. But if we train every day,
sooner or later we will be able to practice 100 times.

There are
also times when I learn from my students. When I see a student
who is moving well, I tell him to repeat the exercise and then I
learn something [laughs]. And often it happens that while I’m
teaching I learn something as well. And at those moments I am
happy to practice Karate, and happy that we never really finish
studying. And this happens more with the Kata than with Kumite.

Another
important aspect of the Kata is that they have a story to tell.
They came about as a collection of techniques carried out by
masters that used them in order to survive. This is why they
contain hidden meanings. They were not merely created as a form
of exercise. We’re dealing with collections of techniques used
in real combat. Obviously, changes have occurred. But Master
Miyagi used to say that their essence had not changed. Even if
he also said that they should be kept hidden.

The other day Master Shimabukuro stated that: “The techniques
are changeable. Even the Kihon (basic training) contained in the
Kata’s, once it has been fully learned, can be applied in many
different ways depending on the circumstances. Whether or not
the Kata are useful, whether or not they are applicable – this
is an extremely superficial way of looking at things”.

Higaonna Sensei: You’re absolutely right! The internal
forms in the Kata are basic forms containing
specific techniques, but they are not used as they are
presented. In my Dojo we have subdivided the Kata: there are the
Bunkai of the Kihon, the traditional Bunkai & the
applicable Bunkai. It depends on the level of the person who is
learning. And this is because the techniques change depending on
the adversary. They even change depending on whether the
adversary is large or small. So we can’t simply say things like
“this technique is used in this way”. It wouldn’t make sense.

The chat the other day also brought up gamaku and chinkuchi, and
I would like to ask you a few questions about these. At the time
you, Master, didn’t say anything…

Higaonna Sensei: Master Chojun used to teach in
dialect. “Put some chinkuchi into it!”, “More gamaku!”, “Give me
more kushi!” and so on.

Ah, so even Master Chojun used to say “Put chinkuchi into it!”?

Higaonna Sensei: Well... he wouldn’t say it often,
given that it was so obvious. Just to the beginners, he would
say to use gamaku. There are those who, when they contract their
bodies in Sanchin, do not rotate their hips as they punch. In
these cases he would say to use more gamaku.

With regard to those who punched by only using their arms, did
he mean for them to rotate their hips more?

Higaonna Sensei: Yes. To use chinkuchi, to use kushi
(hips – koshi in Japanese.), to use gamaku when we punch. But
this all goes without saying. Apart from chinkuchi and the hips,
he would only say to use more gamaku to absolute beginners. The
thing that Master Chojun repeated the most was “Do chuuraku!”,
which in a certain phrase meaning to move in an elegant way. If
the movements and the Kata are not elegant, he would say, we do
not create “bu”.

Elegant movement is certainly the ideal, right?

Higaonna Sensei: Absolutely. Initially we can be a bit
stiff in our movements, but we gradually obtain graceful
movement. He’d also say “Give it chinkuchi,
chiruchanchantoshii!”. “Chiru” means the muscles and the
tendons, whereas “chan” means movement. So this all means that
our bodies create power and velocity through our muscles and our
joints.

Master
Chojun never used to teach from one fixed position. He observed
everything, from your gaze to your movements.

And he used to teach in dialect...

Higaonna Sensei: Yes. Even from the feet, he would say
that we should “Muchite”.

By “muchite” did he mean to move them in a decisive way?

Higaonna Sensei:It probably
meant that if you were approaching an adversary, you should
stand on his foot to stop his movement. This is the basic rule.
After you have kicked, you tread on the adversary’s foot with a
large step. You block their movement by standing on their foot
and you close your hand in kakete.

In Japan there are many who question your martial valour,
Master. When you built your dojo in Yoyogi, is it true that many
came for a dojo yaburi. (a practice that means “knock down the
dojo”. The Master of a dojo is challenged, and if you beat him,
you take control of that dojo by depriving it of its very basis,
which will cause its closure given the dishonour that its
defeated Master has suffered. This practice is now considered
illegal but apparently has not totally disappeared.) And is it
true that many of these challengers were only to leave your Dojo
in an ambulance?

Higaonna Sensei: No, not at all! (laughs) Nothing as
spectacular as that ever happened! You know, Yoyogi was near
Kamiya, and every now and again someone who practiced Taikiken
would come to me to me to ask if we could train together. And
so, when I was very young, on occasion things might have gotten
a little out of hand...

Master, that is what people call a “dojo yaburi”... (laughs).
And the story of the ambulance?

Higaonna Sensei: No, no. They all went away on their
own two feet. (laughs) Only once did it happen that one day
Master Ken'ichi Sawai came by...

Ooh!

Higaonna Sensei: I was wondering what he could possibly
want from me, and went outside. He bowed his head and said “I am
sorry for what my students did the other day”. This made me
think that he was a truly great Master!

Ooh! So even the Taikiken, renowned for being a contact school,
understood that your school was a serious business!