Fujifilm promises 'definitive solution' to X10 white orb problem

Fujifilm has said it will provide a 'definitive solution' to the white orb blooming problem on its X10 enthusiast compact camera. No further details are available at this point but Fujifilm UK, speaking at the Focus 2012 show in Birmingham UK, said that it is aware of customer concerns and that there will be making a full statement on March 12th.

Comments

[...]We will also develop a modified sensor, which will more universally resolve the ‘white disc’ blooming effect in all modes. We are working hard to make this new sensor available from late May 2012.

I am a retired amatuer photograher, and over the past 55 years I have owned many cameras from full frame DSLR's to compacts. I have had four Fuji cameras (including an X100, which I returned) and I own an X10. I have been following this forum on the Fuji x10 problem with much interest, there must be thousands of people like myself who have never taken part in this discussion but are awaiting the outcome. I, like a lot of others are waiting for the announcement from Fuji promised for today 12.3.02. Should this statement not arise then may I suggest that DP review take some responsibility (as they printed this article) and print the full review of the X10 warts & all includinga statement that they had been misled at the Focus 2012 show.

just like the the 182 days before and after this day. FujiFilm has been screwing me since the *first* SAB problem of my X100 arose. They caught me twice on that one. They have succeeded again with the X10 orb issue.

Anyone else getting sick of all this wait and see Fuji mystery ? first it was the firmware and now who knows what... why dont they just say what they know and not keep everyone watiing for a date to announce it on. Grrr

Look at how Sigma dealt with the SD1 overpricing,either very noble or need to sell out their stock at cost prices..Now if Fuji can be as noble,then I may have some faith in them as a camera producer...

Who's Max CrashKills ?- I bought my camera at C.H.--- selling cameras is not the important thing here - maybe they are happy just selling cameras that people ask for !Ask the salespersons if they have bought a X10 and report back here tomorrow with the stats and the branch of C.H.- I'm very keen to hear from you!

Don't be sad, poor self-deluding Max/Crash/Digby. I am happy to let viewers trust the evidence of their own eyes. And actually I have done very little noise reduction here, as the detail shows to anyone who actually HAS eyesight good enough to know an orb when they see one.

Oh, and incidentally, I have rarely if ever needed to post on the Panasonic forum. THIS camera isn't ideal. But it works. Unlike the X10. So your attempt at an "insult" could hardly be more misdirected.

Thinking about getting the X10, but will wait until Monday to see if there actually IS an announcement. I did some extensive searching, but find it strange that this is the only site mentioning Fuji's contrite view of this issue. We'll see...

I don't understand why we have to wait till 12th March for further information.I have waited long time for such kind of camera and I surely will buy it.White orb problem doesn't matter for me, if picture quality is better therefore in certain other conditions. But it doesn't make sense to buy now before having heard their statement, whatever this is. Up to now, there is no confirmation that this problem is not caused by contaminated material due to Fukushima.And I can't believe any recall action, because otherwise they would have stopped all sellings in the shops at once. Don't you agree ?Maybe there will be a further firmware update, hopefully not affecting details, noise and dynamic range quality. Because if so, I will have a X10 with current firmware and white orbs! I just feel disappointed that there is no information before the 12th and I do not understand why. Wanted to buy this camera this Saturday, but this is before "information day".

I can't help but think that with all of this (mainly negative) publicity towards Fuji that this could have adverse affects on future sales of the X series of cameras, including the prominent X Pro1. So far it seems that the X line of cameras from fuji are plagued with problems. One can only imagine what the X Pro 1 might bring to the table. It is as if Fuji is being saved by a sinking ship with the X line up. I truly hope Fuji can and is willing to make right what is wrong. IQ wise they are excellent.

No Blooming or White Disc problems with my X10.I am a scientific.biological photographer with over 36 years experience in cameras, optics, macro, micro and digital imaging systems, etc. I have followed this discussion and have owned an X10 for several months now, as a walk around pocket camera. I have not had a blooming or white dics problem, nor have I been able to create the problems if tried. I have extensively test the X10 against my main Canon 5D Mk II and Canon 40D with a variety of lenses and in many low light and super highlight situations. I have no more blooming with the X10 under extreme conditions than with the DSLR Canons. Otherwise the X10 is a great camera, vey well made, good exposures, great sharp lens and excellent IQ. So, I guess I am a lucky SOB or perhaps some of the X10's made it though the quality control gate in good shape. I will be interested to see how the 'X20' compares.

Just to try...Have you shot reflective objects on a dark background at low ISO? At the time of the firmware 1.03 "fix" I tried before and after updating and was amazed at how easy it was to produce orbs. Maybe it's the extra 10 years of experience I have, but I would be surprised to find a competent photographer who COULDN'T produce orbs on demand -- almost in minutes. (Or maybe I'm glad I shoot Nikon instead of Canon.) I bet I can get orbs with your X10 with no problem at ISO 100, and we can see them essentially gone at ISO 800.

That's not to say that the orbs will rule your life and ruin your photographic karma, but they are so darned easy to produce...And I couldn't make my Ricoh GXR (smaller sensor P&S) produce any under the same conditions. Some of the reaction we see here is way over the top, but the fact remains that the little buggers can pop up.

I rarely get the blooming too, but I can get your camera to create ORBS. I have handled four x10's right now and each of them reacts the same way. Take a picture of someone wearing sunglasses ISO100 and use forced flash. The subjects were shaded and the background was bright, so I needed the flash to fill. Plenty of ORBS to share...

Could be, because if the incident medium has the larger index of refraction, then the angle with the normal is increased by refraction. The larger index medium is commonly called the "internal" medium, since air with n=1 is usually the surrounding or "external" medium. You can calculate the condition for total internal reflection by setting the refracted angle = 90° and calculating the incident angle. Since you can't refract the light by more than 90°, all of it will reflect for angles of incidence greater than the angle which gives refraction at 90°

Hi just tried with some flute pics,some orbs were better after i tweaked the settings..shade & smoothing...but others were not helped at all? from my tests the angle has alot to do with whether a highlight will orb or not...cool program you made

I'm glad to hear Fuji is taking this "orb/bloom" issue and the X10 customers seriously. At $599 the camera has to deliver across the board as a universal solid photographic tool, at least within reason. The bloom problem is too glaring an error in design to support the price point, which is a shame given the unique style, construction and potential of the X10. The X10 should have been a defining moment for Fuji that cements brand loyalty for decades like the f30/31 did, it's possibly too late for that, but I believe a true winning fix would save them face and many thousands of informed customers. GO FUJI, show us that you are truly serious about staying viable in the camera market.

Fuji is taking it seriously now because they probably realized that in the age of internet they can´t sell defective products without taking serious damage to their reputation. But by now it is too late, we all saw how they treated their customers. Apparently only when they realized that this mess wasn´t going away by ignoring their customers did they decide to do something. From now on I won´t touch a Fuji camera with a barge pole and I am sure many others feel the same.

@Portuense - where do you get hold of a barge pole and how many faulty Fuji cameras do you or did you own? I've been a Nikon shooter for 35+ years, and they (as well as Canon & every other firm) have had faulty cameras, lenses, etc. You're right - in this day of Internet philosophers & great thinkers everything is public - not necessarily accurate. Again - an example of great customer response - when a number of lesser (read - handling) X100 criticisms were pointed out by Dpreview (a real testing organization) Fuji had firmware upgrades in a couple of weeks - correcting the vast majority of minor and larger issues. Not a bad track record. I haven't had a blooming problem with my X10 - but I certainly believe that it exists and many people have been bothered by it. OTOH there must be a few hundred or thousand other happy owners out there?. Meanwhile GaryJP lists EIGHT pretty serious issues - i'll gladly sign a petition to ask Fuji to buy back his obvious lemon.

I had 2 Fuji cameras, 2 X10. They both came with a loose viewfinder case. I sent them back immediatly of course and decided it was enough. That was before I could even take photos and find out about the orbs. I don´t know Fuji past record (but it hardly seems to be shiny from what I read from other people) but the way Fuji handled this all issue was pathetic. I won´t put my hard earned money on a corporation that treats it´s customers like Fuji has. First they called their customers stupid by saying that the camera works within specs. Then after a long time they release a firmware fix that fixes nothing. I owned Canon and Olympus cameras and they never let me down. The day they do I will stop buying their products. I don´t owe loyalty to any corporation and like they say, fool me once shame on you, fool me twice...

Yes very simple,and its only a P&S with maybe a bit better IQ than the competition..all this crap about only 'real' photographers can fully understand /appreciate it is typical 1st year art student Ego trips..any camera can be used to make gallery quality photos if the user has an eye & creativity, seems some 'Real' fanboys have an oedipus with the X10..wake up its a tool that's not functioning properly for many situations..That's all

Indeed, but less refined than simply disagreeing without the need for pejorative parlance. I do get a kick out of people using such a romanticized fashionable term to describe people who romanticize a brand or gear. I get it, it's meant to irritate the person you disagree with so they feel less inclined to have a differing opinion, hence being pejorative. It's alright, Fuji says shortly we are going to have a cool camera that can shoot girls made of chrome with incandescent breasts in direct sunlight....that should be awesome!

I think "fanboy" is the least of the pejoratives here used to irritate. Two or three posters have been banned for theirs, one appallingly sexist one used against a female poster. And there's the silly: Love my faulty camera or you're NOT a photographer. It's truly tinfoil hat time.

As I've said before, I consider brand fanaticism inversely proportional to photographic ability. Not one of the GOOD pros I meet in real life gets into this garbage. He just chooses the tool that suits HIM (or her) and lives with it.

Of course, if it doesn't work as it's meant to, and I doubt even Fuji WANTED orbs, that's something else.

Saying you "disagree" is the least pejorative, "fanboy" is clearly a childish sandlot term used to bother people who like something they own/enjoy and discuss in front of someone who needs to make them feel silly for their proclivity. I'm an air "fanboy", DEAL WITH IT, I LIKE AIR! :-)

I belong to quite q few internet forums, DPreview and some boxing forums have the some of most abusive/abrasive vernacular used in order to show disapproval of opinions. I'm not shocked by the lack of respect at the boxing forums, but DPreview is difficult to have an adult disagreement and it disappoints, it's a shame DPreview has to moderate members who refuse to control themselves.

I don't care what brand photographic tool I use, I just want it to work reliably and be a decent value. I have Canon, Nikon, Sony, Olympus, Fuji and Samsung digital cameras, some work better than others and I would consider most of the brands mentioned for future purchases...but Fuji is going to have to resolve this $599 "almost cam" if they want to keep customers like me. I'd still rather use my D7000 when dealing with difficult dynamic range, but I want to be able to take my X10 when I want to travel very lightly, and I don't want to be scared to take night shots with street lights. My TL500 does a nice job as a pocket-cam, but the jpg are less than stellar, the camera responds slower than expected and the raw files are too big. It seems everything is a compromise. I hope Fuji proves a bunch of cynics wrong by making the X10 deliver on the promise, but I would not bet the farm on it or anything silly like that.

Honestly the few pros I know are a bit brand oriented due to huge investments in proprietary lenses and flashes, so they want body that works from the same brand. I own a bunch of nice Nikon lenses, bodies and flashes, so I guess in someone's inane/vapid mind, I'm a Nikon "Fanboy" (ubiquitous teenage term) unless they redundantly screw up royally...I can deal with "liking" Nikon DSLR, but if someone calls me a "boy" don't blame me if I tell them to "feel again" :-)

There's a difference between being brand oriented and thinking a brand can do no wrong. I use both Windows and Mac. Both have their issues. I really don't see why more people don't have the sanity to admit it.

I don't care if people are brand oriented or not, different strokes for different folks. I don't need to people to be the same. Use whatever works or whatever works and the manufacturer has not pizzed you off yet :-)

I've stayed out of the whole X10 debate until now (had fun lurking in my breaks, though), but this is just the dumbest thing. My position on the thing has always been that it isn't defective, it's substandard. It works as a camera, it isn't going to get worse with time, and it's good enough for some peopl, but at the same time it fails to meet certain reasonable expectations. End of the day, I won't be rushing out to get one, but orbs aren't the only reason. But seriously, saying that people dislike the camera because it's OUT OF THEIR LEAGUE? Sorry, but this camera isn't anything special. Maybe that argument would hold in a discussion about Leicas or something else in that price bracket and that specialised, but not for a premium compact. Simple fact is, even if it is good enough for you, it's not good enough for a bunch of other folks. "Out of your league" is some serious hipster trash.

doubt a recall,probably the X10 OF(orb free) or X20 or whatever,and current owners can upgrade fro free or small service charge..to $$$ to change all sensors I think..or they say DON'T SHOOT IN BRIGHT LIGHTS!

I agree - they tried a firmware fix that apparantly was tested about as good as the X10 before initial shipments lol - so Fuji knew the camera had a flaw and also likely knew the firmware update wouldn't work so that does show a lack of care by Fuji IMO. -But- they will ultimately (at least they say) take care of the issue one way or the other so they do get some credability back with that move - how much we'll have to wait and see I guess.

If they do fix it, the amount of free publicity will have been astounding. Probably more posts on this little camera than any other, ever. Even now, with less than a week to go, people insist on speculating, based on no knowledge whatsoever. Some folks have even decided that whatever Fuji does will be unaceptible, even though they have no idea what Fuji will do.

I am really looking for Mar 12. I own a X-S1 and I am experiencing the white orbs problem too. I like taking pictures at night. The issue causes a lot of troubles when taking pictures in shopping malls with my friends. A lot of orbs with the in door lighting.

Before I bought X-S1, I though Fujifilm would have made improvement that white orbs won't occur with this model. I also did not see any complaints from the forum (coz I bought it too soon) before I bought it.

So far I don't see any firmware update for X-S1. I hope Fujifilm would also concern about the customers who bought X-S1, and provide update or recall for this model. X-S1 costs more than X10.

Obviously not another firmware upgrade coming because it's quite evident now that the problem isn't going to be fixed that way - and they had very little time to come up with an 'all new' X11- but a modified X10 rebranded as X11 is more likely the announcement.

Why wait until the 12th? You've already made up your mind. Fuji will only make you mad if it caves into "mantras" and admits a "problem." Very likely, whatever the complainers see (let's avoid the word "orb"), it defies a firmware fix.

Fine if Fuji manages to fix this irritating issue. Luckily I've not bought an X10, but at least I might try one if this problem ever gets fixed for real within something like 2 or 3 months.But no word at all about some solution for the Sticky aperture issue with the X100? Fujifilm better not leave these which soon are out of warranty for dead whenever they get problem with the aperture. It's is about time to think about their reputation, escpecially now with the X-Pro1 coming, not to lose faith among existing buyers of the X100 and also potential buyers which already know about the problem.

With the X10 off my shortlist I continued to dither over the XZ-1 and the P7100.

I'll sit tight to see what this announcement brings. On paper and in the hand the X10 is the one for me - but I'm not spending that kind of money until I know the orb problem has gone ( I doubt that my photography would be particularly "orb prone" but it's not a risk I'm prepared to take).

If it's not a cure Nikon or Olympus will get my money - they'll just have to wait a bit longer for it.

I'm a longtime Nikon SLR/DSLR shooter and was considering the P7000/7100 as well. I bought the X10 with full knowledge of the ORB issue and haven't regretted it. I'll make use of whatever "definitive fix" Fuji comes up with but even if there wasn't a fix I'd still have a great camera with a fantastic f2.0 lens.The P7100 is the "definitive fix" for many of the P7000s problems. Meanwhile my 85mm 1.4 prime will still exhibit some color fringing in certain situations and my 1968 Minolta Autocord will have some exposure shift across its shutter speeds. And I'll adjust to the shooting conditions and the limitations of the tool and make great photographs.

I'd recommend X10. The Nikon doesn't have the WDS but it doesn't have the low light capability either.

I completely agree Mike. I shoot aps-c, full frame, and medium format as well, and the x10 certainly is a great fit in the line up.

It is sad that forums like these diswayed people.

Most experienced long time photographers I know that use the camera, love it. Only the gear heads hate it, yet they are absolutely obsessed with it...which says something in itself.

It's definitely a different type of camera, which flys above the comprehension of the average gear head...which leaves them baffled and angry. Kinda like when they read a photography book were the author is explaining thought process and approch to how they took a certain picture...and they get mad because they weren't given the paint by numbers recipe, but will never understand that the true artistic value is in the thought process.

What kind of lowlight capacity do you have when the only guaranteed way to avoid orbs is to shoot at ISO800 when there are light sources around? What'd the point of a fast lens that's crippled by the need to avoid a sensor fault?

@garyjp, I shot Christmas Eve and Christmas morning wide open at iso 800 and above with OOF Christmas lights in the background. Some with fill flash some without. Macro shots of ornaments with lights reflecting in them.

Interesting. I was planning to buy this camera, primarily due to the optical viewfinder and the fast lens, but the "white orbs" turned me off. So if they indeed have a working solution for this, I might very well get one in the end. But we shall wait and see.

I own this camera and I would really like to keep it. I must admit the orbs (which appear in some of my shots even in daylight occasions) are a MAJOR issue. I really hope Fujifilm have a definitive solution for that.

This is what I call one Passionate thread. Some have divorced the X10 some accept its deficiencies and carry on. Some on noticing have decided to have a break and return to Fuji at a later date. TBC I dont own one but it looks lovely and apart from the orb issues seems to take lovely images. Just sort the orb thing out and we can move on...

I am (still) seriously considering getting this camera, even with the acknowledged orb issue. To all those who scream 'this camera is beyond c*rp, Fujifilm should be publicly stoned to death for coming out with it, and anyone who says it's OK/good is an obvious shill and/or doesn't know photography from a hole in the ground!', please suggest anything currently available that has an equivalent:- price- fast lens- large dynamic range- optical viewfinder (or at least a viewfinder that can doesn't require holding the camera at arm's length)- decent higher-ISO performance

I think I read a dXo report that showed a good dynamic range for this camera but how can that be when it handle (specular) highlights so poorly. Is it that the dynamic range extends into the shadows at the expense of the highlights? I'd be interested in hearing from the experts on this.

The x10 also has one of the best lighting capibilites of the majority of professional cameras on the market, including the best medium format cameras.

That feature alone more than justifies $600.

Of course, people complaining can't come close to grasping that concept, because they have poor photography abillity and the very trivial and small occurance of orbs absolutely cripples their photography. However, people that don't let the camera take their pictures, have advance lighting skills, and enjoy photography love the x10.

People unhappy with the x10 obviously bought a camera out of their skill set and should return or sell it, despite the orbs being fixed or not, and buy an entry level DSLR to learn on. To utilize andd appreciate the advanced features of the x10, one has to have a decent foundation in photography fundamentals.

I paid exactly the same money like the X10 for a Sony Nex-5n and the Sony is better than the X10 mile away in any category. My buddy got the Pentax Q and it was $150 cheaper than the X10 and the image was not that much different. I brought my wife a Canon S100 for her birthday and that little wonder is mile ahead of the X10 in any way, you want me to go on...

And yes, BTW one of the biggest disappointment for me on the X10 is that useless OVF. off centred, lack on any info, 85% only and lens barrel covered up 20 % of the view in wide angle. My good old FM2 and FM3a OVF offered more info and 100% coverage from more than 20 years ago.

You got the NEX5n for the same price? Wow... you either got the a great deal for the Sony or got ripped off for the X10 (or both).

I guess I could consider the fast-lens point&shoots like the S95/S100, ZX-1 but that would mean doing without the OVF (really don't like holding the camera out at arm's length) OR do without the fast lens & look at the G12/G1X (less low-light shots & minimal bokeh).

It does not matter what happens on March 12th. If the full statement is an explanation or solution to the white orbs, this is a marketing disaster.

Don't get me wrong. I love the X10 and I thought I do not have any problems with the X10. I also had my orbs in the meantime. They annoy me when they occur because they render these pictures unusable... ...and depending on what you take pictures of this is a great number or not.

I found the timing just kind of funny...My buddy who live in Hong Kong and work for a major camera distributor told me that Fujifilm is ready for their big marketing push and advertisement campaign on the New X-1 Pro starting in the middle of March..... all the sudden, there is a "Die Endlösung" or "Finale solution" for the X10...

Oh well, all I can say now is I am so glad I sold mine and get a Sony Nex 7 and never be so happy and I don't have to await for another disappointment from Fuji...

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