Nov. 29, 2018
01:43 pm JST

Nov. 29, 2018
01:51 pm JST

Nov. 29, 2018
01:55 pm JST

The best solution is for SK to pay the victims voluntarily, then JAPAN REIMBURSE IT.

actually no, japan and SK signed an agreement in the 60s to finalise exactly this, according to international laws at the time. Japan need to take its case to the international court and have them make a final decision once and for all.

Nov. 29, 2018
02:46 pm JST

Nov. 29, 2018
02:51 pm JST

GoodlucktoyouToday 02:15 pm JSTThis happened almost 70 years ago or more so just give compensation and move along. The world has

many more pressing challenges

Yes, just as Serbia is compensating the other former Yugoslav republics for all the genocide and crap they did from 1990 - 2004, it's time for Japan to do the same. Wash the hands and move on. The fascist era is over.

Nov. 29, 2018
02:54 pm JST

Nov. 29, 2018
03:01 pm JST

This isn't about money. It's about Japan owning up to its past atrocities instead of whitewashing, lying, and trying to use technicalities to continue in its obstinate and racist attitude of admission, remorse, and learning from its past mistakes. This kind of neo-fascist, black van conservatism is going to start WWIII.

Nov. 29, 2018
03:13 pm JST

Nov. 29, 2018
03:19 pm JST

Just as predicted, ANOTHER lawsuit. So, for those who say 'Japan needs to admit it war atrocities and pay them and move on', this is precisely the problem. If Japan DOES pay, guess what, it will open up the door for all sorts of lawsuits down the road. The floodgates will be open. I am pretty certain that Abe and company know this and are (correctly) refusing to pay.

Nov. 29, 2018
03:25 pm JST

Here we go again with SK rattling its "compensation cup" again! How many times and how much money has Japan paid for its horrid past and apologized? African Americans suffered a lot worse and alot longer but you don't hear us going on about compensation for work for many hours a day with little to no pay/rape/beatings/abuse our fore-fathers, mothers, brothers and sisters endured to get us to where we are today. Both Koreas should look back at their past and learn from it and use it as a source of power to make sure the atrocities that took place never happens again! Not use their past as a money bandage that will never heal because they don't want it to heal.

Nov. 29, 2018
03:28 pm JST

Once Japan starts paying the demands for more will come thick and fast. It a could be never ending and there is no knowing how far back they will want to go-----Hideyoshi is still complained about in Korea.

Nov. 29, 2018
03:36 pm JST

shochinmono: "Japan should not just deplore the current move in S.K. Take actions. Start from abolishing special permanent residency rights."

Ridiculous. First you're not only denying what happened, but second you're suggesting people who live and work (and in some cases were born) here be punished because of the actions of the courts of another nation. I doubt very much you ask the US to kick out all Japanese residents every time there is a peace ceremony held at Hiroshima and courts recognize the suffering of victims of the atomic bombings, with even some victims and politicians travelling to the US.

Serrano: "As if Mitsubishi Heavy Industries managers and employees in 2018 are responsible for what their grandfathers or great grandfathers did from 1910 to 1945."

It's not a matter of individual responsibility. First, it is a company that HUGELY profited, and exists today, because of people it dragged over in many cases from their home nation, forced citizenship on them if they hadn't already, then stripped them of it post war and kicked them out. Mitsubishi has already recognized using forced labor when it came to POWs of British and American nationality, but refused to recognize it with SK with the justification that they "Were Japanese nationals at the time, so they could not technically have been POWs", etc. So, again, while the individuals in charge are not responsible for what happened back then, the company bears some obligation to apologize for its past and compensate, given the massive giant it is today as a result of said forced labor.

Nov. 29, 2018
03:40 pm JST

Nov. 29, 2018
03:46 pm JST

This happened almost 70 years ago or more so just give compensation and move along.

It was settled almost 70 years ago with compensation paid. However the Korean govt declined Japan’s offer to directly compensate the victims and received a lump sum that they used to prop up state industries and conglomerates.

Nov. 29, 2018
04:28 pm JST

Nov. 29, 2018
04:41 pm JST

Japan, you have learned your lesson.

No matter how much you pay, no matter how many times you apologize, no matter how many agreements or promises you come to settle with, Koreans will say either they were not enough or had problems in the first place, and scrap them (or smudge them back in your face).

Just stop any diplomatic relation with them.

Pretty soon, the Korean economy will collapse and they will come to ask for Japan's help, but no need to aid them this time (as you have in the past). The whole world now understands that Koreans (or at least their government) are liars and agreement violators, so no one will feel sorry even if Japan does not help them.

Nov. 29, 2018
04:51 pm JST

Nov. 29, 2018
05:09 pm JST

smithinjapan

I do agree that shochinmono's comment was quite ridiculous, but I also think you are missing a point here. I understand that he was talking about the Zainichi Koreans (north and south) who is living in Japan, getting special aids from Japan, but continues to educate their kids that Japan is their enemy and should not get influenced by the Japanese culture. What happened to "When in Rome, do as Romans do"? On the other hand, all Japanese living in the US, complies with the US education (pledges the allegiance to the FLAG), get all the influences from the US as possible. So your comparison is not relevant in this case.

As for Serrano's comment, you are right. This has nothing to do with individual responsibility. However, you have missed a point that the SK government did acknowledge the fact that the forced laborers are in fact part of the agreement in 1965, and accepted the fact that they were Japanese nationals at that time. The reason they agreed to this, is because if they left them out (as the comfort women were) and gave individuals the right to make claims to companies on there selves, this will also give the right to Japanese companies to all their properties that they left behind in Korea. The agreement was actually there to help the Korean government if the Japanese companies made any claims, as many western companies did in their colonies when they moved back. But now it's breached.

2) Historical Korean labor's graffiti message saying I want to see mother shown in Korean textbook as an evidence of Korean force labor by Japanese in Fukuoka was actually the recently forged one by Korean staff in 1965.

Nov. 29, 2018
09:25 pm JST

Nov. 29, 2018
09:26 pm JST

I agree with all commenters above who feel Japan should pay up and learn to atone for its past crimes against humanity, to be fair USA and all other nations that started wars, conflicts, overthrew governments, had slaves and colonized other nations should make reparations and begin lifetime of atonement.

Nov. 29, 2018
09:35 pm JST

The settlement was finalized for good by the former President Park and PM Abe in 2015. No future claims would be made, was the agreement. Huge sum of money paid by Japan. Present SK givernment wont follow rules. No suprise that the sensible President Park was subsequently jailed for life in Seoul.

Nov. 29, 2018
09:37 pm JST

@NCIS Reruns

I guess Koreans aren't familiar with the term "jurisdiction."

And the Japanese understand jurisdiction? LOL. Japan recently announced if its citizens smoked marijuana in foreign countries where it is legal, they would still be violating Japanese law and be considered criminals.

Nov. 29, 2018
10:10 pm JST

I can see it now, once Japan had submitted it's claim to the International court of Justice the Korean government will argue that Japan had jumped the gun violating Article 3 section 1 within the Agreement Between Japan and the Republic of Korea Concerning the Settlement of Problems in Regard to Property and Claims and Economic Cooperation

which stipulates;

1 Any dispute between the High Contracting Parties concerning the interpretation or the implementation of this Agreement shall be settled primarily throughdiplomatic channels.

In which the entire Japanese cabinet will be displaying a group face palm while shrugging their shoulders.

Nov. 30, 2018
12:00 am JST

Ridiculous. First you're not only denying what happened, but second you're suggesting people who live and work (and in some cases were born) here be punished because of the actions of the courts of another nation. I doubt very much you ask the US to kick out all Japanese residents every time there is a peace ceremony held at Hiroshima and courts recognize the suffering of victims of the atomic bombings, with even some victims and politicians travelling to the US.

Judges at Korean Top Court aren't democratically nominated in the 1st place, and ain't in the position to arbitrary interpret International treaty by stepping over 2 other separated powers in democracy and the other contracting party and the people, which ISthe most ridiculous. Taking this opportunity, Japan should normalize treatment on non-Japanese residency, that's to say, treat all non-Japanese residents equally. Ordinary permanent residents also live and work paying tax, in some cases are born don't they. Japan had taken care of Koreans and their kids in Japan at the end of WW2 as being promised in 1965 treaty enough. Yes. Enough is enough. It's time for Japan to stop taking special care of both Koreas and Koreans any further, do not have to feel obligated to feel they once be the same Japanese . Do you know why? Because S.K, especially, it's Top Court hate it so much. Your comparison with Japanese residents in US is ridiculous as we are talking about only special treatment, besides Japan doesn't flip the table over like this.

Sounds too emotional? No, Japan should start taking steps of what should have been done against both Korea's from long time ago, which is nothing emotional.

Nov. 30, 2018
12:09 am JST

I believe South Korea will collapse once they unite with North Korea. They will support North with economic aid and infrastructures , the south doesnt have enough money to do this. Only US and Japan can help these countries with investments and loan. Dont make another wrong move South Korea if you still want to prosper.

Nov. 30, 2018
12:25 am JST

It appears South Korea is going through its own version of Brexit. Judges and politicians there have taken the gloves off and made clear their desire to trash the basis of the country's very beneficial bilateral relations with Japan going back 53 years. But there are major differences compared to Britain's membership in the European Union. When Britain joined the EU (then called the EEC) in 1973, it was already a wealthy country. When South Korea established diplomatic relations with Japan in 1965, it was desperately poor. Bilateral relations with Japan and the resulting influx of aid, trade, and investment were a major factor in transforming South Korea into a wealthier country. Not the only factor, but a major factor.

Times change, and it appears South Korean elites desire to return to the official and ultimately failed anti-Japan stance that the country had prior to 1965. It is their choice to nourish hatred a la the Palestinians vis-a-vis Israel and North Korea vis-a-vis Japan. But it's hard for me to see how South Korea will prosper by adopting such a stance against Japan.

Nov. 30, 2018
12:35 am JST

South Korea has played his game so often that they think it's acceptable to Japan and the world. It's not.

Japan needs to stop trying so hard to be reasonable and polite with South Korea. First off, stop calling that country 韓国。Call it 南朝鮮。The entire world calls that country South Korea, but if Japan does it it would offend them?

End diplomatic relations with South Korea, make business and trade with that country illegal. Japan needs nothing from South Korea and if South Korea can do without Japan, then great. Make immigration between the two countries very difficult. Give Zainichi in Japan a chance to choose between South Korean or Japanese citizenship., and do away with Permanent Residency Status with that country. No more Kpop or Kdrama. Remember, South Korea had no problem doing this to Japan before.

As for the obvious, take them to the ICJ. The entire world will support the rue of law and the adherence to treaties signed between sovereign nations. South Korea's actions sets a legal precedent that could undermine the entire global diplomatic structure and affect countless countries.

Nov. 30, 2018
12:45 am JST

10years! 10years been spent by both parties to come up with 1965 treaty but still failed to agree on legitimacy of the annexation in 1910. Both parties intentionally waive and compromise putting it up on the shelf selecting forward-looking relationship ( means No-looking-back, NO additional arbitrary-judged issues to be brought back, whatsoever). That's the spirit of the treaty. Nitpicking like this by the supreme judiciary of A country is just disgusting and shameful

Nov. 30, 2018
01:45 am JST

actually no, japan and SK signed an agreement in the 60s to finalise exactly this

The 1965 treaty doesn't cover damages resulting from the illegal actions on the part of Japan.

@NCIS Reruns

I guess Koreans aren't familiar with the term "jurisdiction." How do they intend to enforce the ruling?

By seizing Japanese defendant's assets in Korea.

@Serrano

As if Mitsubishi Heavy Industries managers and employees in 2018 are responsible for what their grandfathers or great grandfathers did from 1910 to 1945.

Mitsubishi the corporation is. A corporation is a legal person.

@unforgettable

Pretty soon, the Korean economy will collapse and they will come to ask for Japan's help,

Actually Korea's sovereign credit rating is way higher than Japan's.

It is Japan that is in trouble. Japanese government is telling its defense contractors that it cannot pay them next year and is demanding a deferment of payment until 2021.

@Matt Hartwell

How to solve this issue?

Simple. Japanese corporations pay up.

Japan needs to get some binding, final resolutions. As in, truly binding and truly final.

Japan could have had that final resolution in 1965, if it admitted that Japan's occupation of Korea was illegal and criminal in nature and included the word "damages" in the treaty text. Japan refused to, and is now paying the price for its pride.

So as long as Japan refuses to acknowledge that Japan's occupation of Korea was illegal and criminal, this issue cannot be resolved.

@Kurisuchain714

I believe South Korea will collapse once they unite with North Korea.

You don't understand the economy of the ROK then. The ROK government stands to make a net gain of 2 trillion dollars by taking over North Korea, because

There is 2 trillion dollars worth of natural resources buried in North Korea.

Land of North Korea is worth 1 trillion dollars.

Since all land is public in North Korea, the ROK government is gaining an asset worth 3 trillion dollars. This is more than enough to pay for the reconstruction of North Korea and turn a fat profit of 2 trillion dollars, not to mention 10%+ annual economic growth resulting from the reconstruction effort.

Nov. 30, 2018
02:22 am JST

Nov. 30, 2018
02:24 am JST

Samit Basu, as the first step toward the United States of Northeast Asia, SK and NK should reunite; following that Japan, Korea and China will formerly make announcement to form a union of unirace, unimoney, uniculture, unilanguage, unimarket, unitechnology, unimedicare, unifood, unimarriage, uni-entertainment, uni-citizenship, and uni-territory based on uni-history.

Nov. 30, 2018
02:42 am JST

Samit Basu, as the first step toward the United States of Northeast Asia, SK and NK should reunite; following that Japan, Korea and China will formerly make announcement to form a union of unirace, unimoney, uniculture, unilanguage, unimarket, unitechnology, unimedicare, unifood, unimarriage, uni-entertainment, uni-citizenship, and uni-territory based on uni-history.

Yes, and in your 'Asian utopia' I'm sure that 'unirace' would be Chinese, the 'unimoney' would be Yuan and the 'unilanguage' would be Mandarin, right?

Nov. 30, 2018
04:16 am JST

extanker, both Japanese are Koreans are Chinese offsprings. That is science, you can do nothing about it. As for money, it can be anything, old or new, as long as it is gold. As for language, there are already common 800 characters in Korean, Japanese and Chinese languages. Historically, it is mandarin, nothing to hide.

It's blatantly obvious that what you are talking about is not a 'union' of the Asian nations, but all of them becoming part of China.

Nov. 30, 2018
05:44 am JST

Which would be unlawful and open a can of worms for South Korea, see below...

The 1965 treaty doesn't cover damages resulting from the illegal actions on the part of Japan[…]Japan could have had that final resolution[…]included the word "damages"

You forgot to mention that Japan offered Korea compensation for victims, which it declined formally branding individual compensation a Korean matter. As such, the burden lies on SK.

Also, the Korean supreme court simply doesn't have the competence to rule on or interpret bilateral treaties, as instruments for revision (in this case: none) and problems of interpretation (as stipulated in article 3 paragraphs 1 and 2 of the treaty) are to be settled in a specific way. Thus, SK is breaking the treaty by passing its own unilateral judgements and your argument is thus invalidated by legal ignorance.

…stands to make a net gain of 2 trillion dollars…

Wishful thinking, as this is a total sum which will most likely take multiple years and hundreds of millions every year. The result would still be a remarkable increase, but nothing too grand. You also can't calculate money you don't have coming in yet.

Nov. 30, 2018
05:47 am JST

Nov. 30, 2018
06:11 am JST

The 1965 treaty doesn't cover damages resulting from the illegal actions on the part of Japan[…]Japan could have had that final resolution[…]included the word "damages"

You forgot to mention that Japan offered Korea compensation for victims, which it declined formally branding individual compensation a Korean matter. As such, the burden lies on SK.

Also, the Korean supreme court simply doesn't have the competence to rule on or interpret bilateral treaties, as instruments for revision (in this case: none) and problems of interpretation (as stipulated in article 3 paragraphs 1 and 2 of the treaty) are to be settled in a specific way. Thus, SK is breaking the treaty by passing its own unilateral judgements and your argument is thus invalidated by legal ignorance.

There's a wide spectrum of victims including those wronged civilly, criminally, and those victimized by Japan under internationally recognized, tried, convicted war crimes. You're lumping them all to get out of the intended exclusion of "illegal", I think proper delineation is war crime, victims. The Treaty expressly excludes them.

Also courts rule on how international treaties are interpreted and enforced within its jurisdiction all the time all over the world. Go look it up.

Nov. 30, 2018
06:30 am JST

So you want the situation between Japan and South Korea to get worse? That will lead to tit for tat escalations.

You don't understand the economy of the ROK then. The ROK government stands to make a net gain of 2 trillion dollars by taking over North Korea, because

Not going to happen until the North gives up its nukes which it aint doing. Any attempt by South Korea to circumvent the sanctions will lead to a Western blockade on South Korea and being forced into relience on China and Russia, which may or may not happen if China wants to sell product to the West, they will toe the line. Russia is not wealthy and cannot replace Japanese, American and European consumption

Nov. 30, 2018
06:33 am JST

The 1965 Treaty is a diplomatic agreement and doesn't include matters that involve war crimes and crimes against humanity. That said, the real problem is the obvious racist attitudes exhibited in this thread exemplary of racist attitudes that are very far from any sort of contrition for Japan's atrocities and is exactly the reason why Japan is still struggling to move past its history of war crimes. I remember when the Ehime Maru was sunk by the USS Greenville, the Admiral captaining Greenville apologized multiple times with tears, Bush apologized, Powell apologized, Rumsfeld apologized, Foley apologized, many others apologized and no in Japan complained about the US apologizing too much or whining that the US apologized already. That's how these things work. Everyone knows obviously Japan committed atrocities before and during WWII to occupying countries as well as to its own subjects. Instead of admitting, and owning up, you have Japan whitewashing, denying, claiming they've already apologized for things they claim they did not do, replete with racist insults and attitudes, etc. That's not how you resolve issues. How about honesty, honor, and some decency????

Nov. 30, 2018
09:10 am JST

melonbarmonsterToday 06:33 am JST

The 1965 Treaty is a diplomatic agreement and doesn't include matters that involve war crimes and crimes against humanity.

Tell us, when was there a war between Korea and Japan which will constitute this and crimes against humanity as you phrase it was already in recognized when this treaty was signed so the treaty covers that as well.

Basically SK supreme court has no limb to stand AND I believe they have zero knowledge in international law or how separation of power works. Honestly speaking how these Supreme Court judges passed the bar exam not knowing these basics are a mystery to me.

Nov. 30, 2018
09:45 am JST

Let’s get this right. This is not a court case of South Korea vs Japan. This is a civil suit against Mitsubishi Heavy Industries who knowing exploited and cheated its workers. It is like suing a “black company” in Japan.

Mitsubishi Heavy Industries has been found guilty and should pay up, just as a “black company” in Japan has to pay up when cheating Japanese workers.

If Mitsubishi Heavy Industries refuses to pay up its assets should be seized. Just like in Japan when a company violates a court order.

Nov. 30, 2018
09:59 am JST

KabukiloverToday 09:45 am JST

Let’s get this right. This is not a court case of South Korea vs Japan.

But it is a court case between SK and Japan since there is an international treaty agreed by BOTH parties that covers this kind of situation and stipulates how it should be resolved which SK supreme court had renegaded and discarded with the SK government not stepping making it into a international incident.

No SK does not get off the hook that easily and it is plain silly trying to make it look as if it is a simple civil case between private individuals.

Nov. 30, 2018
10:00 am JST

"Let’s get this right. This is not a court case of South Korea vs Japan. This is a civil suit against Mitsubishi Heavy Industries who knowing exploited and cheated its workers. It is like suing a 'black company' in Japan."

Many online commenters on both sides, but especially it seems those who are pro-South Korea and virulently anti-Japan, have framed this court case as pitting South Korea against Japan. The South Korean judges themselves appear to be looking to get Japan's rule over Korea from 1910 to 1945 acknowledged as "illegal" by Tokyo. That goes way beyond suing a "black company" in Japan.

Nov. 30, 2018
12:05 pm JST

Which would be unlawful and open a can of worms for South Korea, see below...

Of course it is lawful. The claimants have the final verdict at the highest level.

You forgot to mention that Japan offered Korea compensation for victims, which it declined formally branding individual compensation a Korean matter.

You clearly don't understand what the 1965 treaty entails.

The 1965 treaty covers back-wages, bank savings, and properties left behind in Japan by Koreans.

The 1965 treaty DOES NOT COVER DAMAGES resulting from the illegal actions by Japan during the illegal occupation, because Japan claimed its occupation of Korea was legal.

@Matt Hartwell

Not going to happen until the North gives up its nukes which it aint doing.

Kurisuchain714 was wishing that the ROK collapse economically after its take over of NK, which would happen if and when NK regime collapsed, like a popular revolt, Kim Jong Un having a heart attack and drop dead, etc. I was explaining to him why that wasn't going to happen, and would actually lead to the greatest boom time of the 21st century instead.

@Triring

Tell us, when was there a war between Korea and Japan which will constitute this and crimes against humanity as you phrase

The Japanese occupation of Korea is considered null, void, illegal, and criminal from Day 1.

This is where the damages claim by Korean forced laborers originate from, since their conscription would be considered illegal under international law.

But it is a court case between SK and Japan since there is an international treaty agreed by BOTH parties that covers this kind of situation

The 1965 treaty does not cover this kind of situations, the individual damages claim.

@Masswipe

The South Korean judges themselves appear to be looking to get Japan's rule over Korea from 1910 to 1945 acknowledged as "illegal" by Tokyo.

This is the established legal interpretation in Korea. Korea considers the Japanese annexation null and void, and all Japanese actions taken since 1910 illegal. This is why Japanese companies are held liable for the damages resulting from forced labor conscription. If the Japanese occupation was considered legal, then the forced conscription for military service and labor during wartime would be considered legal and there is no damages to claim.

So if this case ends up in the ICJ as promoted by certain Japanese nationalists, the ICJ will then have to rule if the 1910 annexation was legal or not.

Nov. 30, 2018
12:21 pm JST

Kurisuchain714 was wishing that the ROK collapse economically after its take over of NK, which would happen if and when NK regime collapsed, like a popular revolt, Kim Jong Un having a heart attack and drop dead, etc. I was explaining to him why that wasn't going to happen, and would actually lead to the greatest boom time of the 21st century instead.

I still don't see this revival until North Korea goes nuclear free which it shows very little intention of doing.

Sure they dismantled a couple of sites and then we find out, less than a month later, that it has multiple sites untouched. They want America to alleviate sanctions but it was crystal clear from the start that wasn't going to happen until a ) progress on reducing nukes was visibly started and locked in, b) international monitors were able to check that progress.

I don't see how this process can be bypassed even if South Korea wants it to be the case. There are few issues in the world today that unite the international community more than the need to get nukes out of North Korea.

Nov. 30, 2018
01:58 pm JST

*The 1965 treaty DOES NOT COVER DAMAGES** resulting from the illegal actions by Japan during the illegal occupation, because Japan claimed its occupation of Korea was legal.*

It DOS in Article2 of the agreement (mind it is intentionally separated from others as “,and the claim”) and in Item-5 of Basic List of S.K Claims toward Japan (so-called 8 items), confirmed by official explanatory manual published by SK government in 1965 July right after the treaty, reconfirmed by Roh Moo-Hyun administration in 2007.

In order to bypass those undeniable facts, SK Top Court has emotionally created additional category of compensation for illegal occupation by it's own speculative judgement on legitimacy of annexation, which itself is not only beyond the scope of this lawsuit but also infringe on other 2 separated powers in S.K and the government and the people of another High contracting party.

The Japanese occupation of Korea is considered null, void, illegal, and criminal from Day 1.

Again, please provide evidence. It seems like the rest of the world does not see it that way. Check the result of "A reconsideration of Japanese Annexation of Korea from the Historical and International Law Perspectives" held at Harvard University.

In conclusion, your comments are always not based on facts or evidences, lowering YOUR reputation and respect.

Nov. 30, 2018
09:21 pm JST

melonbarmonsterToday 06:11 am JST

I think proper delineation is war crime, victims. The Treaty expressly excludes them.*

Here is the link to the treaty, translated into English. https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Agreement_Between_Japan_and_the_Republic_of_Korea_Concerning_the_Settlement_of_Problems_in_Regard_to_Property_and_Claims_and_Economic_Cooperation

Where does it "expressly exclude" war crime compensation payment? Would you point that out for us?

melonbarmonster, I think someone told you something that made you misunderstand. Be careful of what the same person tells you, because there is a lot of misinformation floating around Korea Japan debate.

The 1965 Treaty is a diplomatic agreement and doesn't include matters that involve war crimes and crimes against humanity.

Why not? Why cannot we agree to pay compensation for "war crimes and crimes against humanity"? If what you say is true, Japan should not pay anything, because a few years later, someone will say the payment does not cover damages for "war crimes and crimes against humanity".

Dec. 1, 2018
02:19 am JST

@unforgettable

Again, please provide evidence

When a treaty is terminated, each party to the treaty must take official steps to declare as such. Otherwise it remains valid.

With the Annexation Treaty, neither side declared anything to terminate it; the 1965 Treaty declared that the Annexation treaty was "Already null and void". So what does it mean? Since neither side did anything to terminate the treaty but the treaty was already null and void by the time of 1965 Treaty, it means the annexation treaty was null and void from 1910.

Dec. 1, 2018
02:53 am JST

This nonsense from South Korea never ends.

"In January 2005, the South Korean government disclosed 1,200 pages of diplomatic documents that recorded the proceeding of the treaty. The documents, kept secret for 40 years, recorded that the Japanese government actually proposed to the South Korean government to directly compensate individual victims but it was the South Korean government which insisted that it would handle individual compensation to its citizens and then received the whole amount of grants on behalf of the victims.[10][11][12]

The South Korean government demanded a total of 364 million dollars in compensation for the 1.03 million Koreans conscripted into the workforce and the military during the colonial period,[13] at a rate of 200 dollars per survivor, 1,650 dollars per death and 2,000 dollars per injured person.[14] South Korea agreed to demand no further compensation, either at the government or individual level, after receiving $800 million in grants and soft loans from Japan as compensation for it's 1910-1945 colonial rule in the treaty.[12]

Most of the funds from grants were used for economic development,[15] particularly on establishing social infrastructures, founding POSCO, building Gyeongbu Expressway and the Soyang Dam with the technology transfer from Japanese companies.[16] Records also show 300,000 won per death was used to compensate victims of forced labor between 1975 and 1977"

Dec. 1, 2018
04:32 am JST

@unforgettable

Also, it was just this month that the Korean government held a Japanese Job Fair because they are having trouble with students finding jobs in Korea.

Korean students don't prefer working in Japan; the starting salary of Korean college graduates with large Korean corporations is USD 3,500~5,000 a month depending on where you got the job. Yup, brand name corps will pay you $5,000 a month fresh out of college, a sum unheard of in Japan.

Unfortunately, Korea has a college graduation rate of 80%, meaning not all college graduates are able to find full time jobs that require a college degree. Those left out of Korea's job market will then seek a job in Japan instead, knowing that wages are much lower than in Korea. But they have no choice.

This is the reason for tons of luxury car sales in Korea, because anyone with a full time job with one of larger corporations can afford BMW 5 series or X5 in Korea. In fact, the reason why so many BMWs were catching fire in Korea was that BMW sold so many of them.

Korea's major conglomerates pay their staff considerably more than their more productive counterparts in the U.S., Japan and France.

Noh Min-sun, a researcher at the Korea Small Business Institute, presented the findings at a forum in Seoul on Tuesday. Noh found that Korean companies with 500 or more staff pay an average monthly salary of $6,097, considerably higher than their counterparts in the U.S. ($4,735), Japan ($4,079) and France ($5,238) based on purchasing power parity.

Dec. 1, 2018
03:04 pm JST

"based on purchasing power parity" simply means the cost of living in Korea is significantly less than in the other countries mentioned; real wages in Korea are below all the other countries mentioned. In addition, neither France nor Japan is renowned for the productivity of its labor force (though the French do manage to work about half as many hours a week as the Japanese do...). This sounds like a puff piece from the Korea Herald.

Dec. 2, 2018
08:55 am JST

The money was paid in 1965. Case closed

+1

Not only was the sum paid, Korea flat out declined compensation for individuals in minutes of the 1965 agreement. Thus, this was de facto part of the agreement since this very problem was at least talked about.

If Korea wanted compensation for war crimes, it would have included this in the treaty. Truth of the matter is, Korea didn't give a damn, but that's not Japan's legal liability. That's why the case is closed for Japan with the 1965 agreement - don't forget it's Japan who tried to open the doors for individual compensation. Korea slammed it shut.

Korea is trying to avoid responsibility for a problem they created themselves and are trying to shift the blame.…

Since there's no statute of limitations for these allegedly never settled war crimes, Korea could sue Japan internationally. The fact that they don't and make national rulings instead shows that the government cold-heartedly doesn't care one bit about its own citizens. The fact they voided the last treaty proved it's a political stunt.

This is something Samit never even responded to, which is ignoring inconvenient facts for me.

All in all, what South Korea is doing to distract from domestic problems is pretty sickening and unfair to its own citizens.

Dec. 2, 2018
09:58 am JST

In 1965 South Korea was poor and under authoritarian rule. Japan could have its way with those corrupt rulers. This has changed. South Korea is rich and a rival to Japan. The last corrupt leaders are in prison. Now South Korea can finally get justice done in regard to Japan’s sex slavery and forced unpaid labor. Regardless how much the Abe regime whines, justice will be done. It will be done.

Dec. 2, 2018
12:36 pm JST

KabukiloverToday 09:58 am JST

In 1965 South Korea was poor and under authoritarian rule. Japan could have its way with those corrupt rulers. This has changed. South Korea is rich and a rival to Japan. The last corrupt leaders are in prison. Now South Korea can finally get justice done in regard to Japan’s sex slavery and forced unpaid labor

By your own logic the Korean people needs to demand justice against the present SK government NOT the Japanese Government which simply is not happening so what gives?

Whether corrupt or authoritarian, the transfer of power was done through a democratic process with no disruption so the present SK government holds sole responsibility in upholding any international treaties and/or agreements that had been agreed upon during the past regime.

If the SK government feels that it was an unfair treaty then they are the ones who needs to start the renegotiation process not the court. All prior administrations INCLUDING the present Moon regime that had been selected through democratic process has not voiced any revision of the treaty.

Basically PRESENT SK government is simply not upholding their responsibility neither towards their own people nor the contracting party which negotiated in good faith and paid in full based on the agreement.

Dec. 2, 2018
03:09 pm JST

South Korea has finally dealt with corruption, sending two ex-prime ministers to prison. Now a new clean government is ready to deal with Japan on an equal level.

Let me reiterate something I wrote earlier. The judgements are against two Japanese companies who used Korea workers without paying them. The Korean court ruled the company owes them. It is that simple. In Japan, as I said before, a company that cheats its workers has to pay compensation.

The above poster writes: “Basically PRESENT SK government is simply not upholding their responsibility neither towards their own people nor the contracting party which negotiated in good faith and paid in full based on the agreement.” This is nonsense. Settling long-festering injustices against Korea people is quintessentially responsible. You see more as time goes on. Get used to it.

Dec. 2, 2018
03:44 pm JST

The judgements are against two Japanese companies who used Korea workers without paying them. The Korean court ruled the company owes them.

In which the two governments agreed through a binding treaty that it is final with the payment done in 1965.

You just can't neglect a treaty.

If the supreme court has a problem then they need to go through the procedure in which they make a ruling that the treaty is unconstitutional towards the SK government and have the government sort it out.

Sorry that is how separation of power works or are you admitting that SK has no separation of power? In which case why is there a government in the first place?

Dec. 2, 2018
04:42 pm JST

Dec. 2, 2018
04:56 pm JST

You’ve said they will never pay. I again ask, how will they continue to do business in SK if they don’t?

Excuse me?

I posted will not comply WILLINGLY.

How will they continue business in SK that we will find out soon but like I said it will not be pretty.

If the SK government enforces court ruling then the Japanese government has an obligation to protect Japanese citizens and corporations from foreign threats so it will depend on the SK government's actions but if they try to seize assets through force then the Japanese government will have no other options but to freeze ALL SK fluid assets till the outcome of either negotiations between the two nations or ICJ rulings.

It's not about, how will Japanese businesses continue in SK but how will either businesses continue in either countries will be the correct question.

Dec. 2, 2018
09:46 pm JST

Please note it was a S. Korean court that ordered the companies to pay their victims. The class action suit was in S. Korea and not Japan. Those Japanese companies have assets in S. Korea that can be frozen if the companies don’t comply. This is ordinary judicial procedure.

Dec. 2, 2018
10:07 pm JST

KabukiloverToday 09:46 pm JST

Please note it was a S. Korean court that ordered the companies to pay their victims. The class action suit was in S. Korea and not Japan. Those Japanese companies have assets in S. Korea that can be frozen if the companies don’t comply. This is ordinary judicial procedure.

So?

It doesn't change the fact that the SK supreme court renegaded, overturning an agreement between two nations that was ratified with all payment agreed upon paid in full in 1965.

You seem to not understand what separation of power means like the SK supreme court judges that made this ruling.

Dec. 2, 2018
10:51 pm JST

A second thought: The SK Supreme Court justices must know their law pretty well. Better than all of us posters here put together. This being the case, they must know, legally speaking, what they are doing to bring about justice. Either that, or they are in a vast conspiracy with every SK man, woman and child to do it to the Japanese companies who used the Korean as slave laborers. Either way, justice is so far served. Slave labor is a very bad thing.

Dec. 2, 2018
10:54 pm JST

Please note that as of this writing no powers in South Korea are protesting this ruling. This is a civil suit. It is not a suit again the Japanese government.

Still playing coy, well then if it was a civil suit then there should be a statue of limitation for within the SK civil law stipulating how long an unpaid debt can be claimed. I doubt it is longer than 10 years.

On top if the same case is not accepted by the court in the past like this case and other cases like this which is also recorded then it goes into the relms of double jeopardy which again the court is neglecting.

Basically the case has no legs to stand on in the first place and the SK supreme court is violating the very code that they were sworn to protect.

Dec. 2, 2018
11:38 pm JST

“...If it was a civil suit then there should be a statue of limitation for within the SK civil law stipulating how long an unpaid debt can be claimed. I doubt it is longer than 10 years.” You “doubt.” Meaning you don’t know. This means you do not know what you are talking about. So why are you writing at all, except out of spite?

Do this, good readers and writers in this space: charter a flight to South Korea and give its Supreme Court a piece of your mind or mindlessness. While you are at it, get a transcript of the trial and the ruling. You will read the pleas of lawyers on both sides and a brief on why the justices of the highest court of the land ruled as they did. It’ll be in Korean but maybe you can put it through Google Translate.

Dec. 3, 2018
04:45 am JST

Please note that as of this writing no powers in South Korea are protesting this ruling. This is a civil suit. It is not a suit again the Japanese government.

Of course, it is not against Japanese government because they all know they cannot sue Japanese government. However, the majority (7 Judge) virtually based their judgement on legitimacy of annexation calling it as illegal occupation by then-Japanese government (not the accused in this case). Besides, the plaintiffs themselves bore in mind some consolation money based on illegal occupation by Japanese government? In their initial letter of complaint? It is obvious that the majority opinion in this ruling went far above the case of ordinary civil suit. They must do so because they know the claims related to civil case were already irreversibly resolved. Both countries waived diplomatic protection rights by 1965 treaty but Korean Top Court verdicts this time are virtually equal to reviving it and forcing SK government to diplomatically protect the plaintiffs emphasizing that the cases are out of the scope of the treaty. At this point, No it's not ordinary civil suit at all.

A second thought: The SK Supreme Court justices must know their law pretty well. Better than all of us posters here put together.

Korean minority opinions (5 Judges)at the Supreme Court and,needless to say, Japanese Supreme Court must know and know better as well. I won't fly to Seoul to give a piece of my mind but you do not need to be lawyer to read and understand the transcript of the trial and the ruling of this case.

Dec. 3, 2018
05:50 pm JST

Samit Basu

*With the Annexation Treaty, neither side declared anything to terminate it; the 1965 Treaty declared that the Annexation treaty was "Already null and void". *So what does it mean? Since neither side did anything to terminate the treaty but the treaty was already null and void by the time of 1965 Treaty, it means the annexation treaty was null and void from 1910.

Why did you change the focal point of the talk? Clearly, I was asking for the evidence on the Japanese occupation of Korea to be "illegal and criminal" as you mentioned. The declaration of the 1965 treaty only means that both country agrees that the treaty in 1910 was no longer active at that time. It has nothing to do with legality of the annexation.

Korean students don't prefer working in Japan; the starting salary of Korean college graduates with large Korean corporations is USD 3,500~5,000 a month depending on where you got the job. Yup, brand name corps will pay you $5,000 a month fresh out of college, a sum unheard of in Japan.

Wow, I am starting to feel sorry for you. You are so biased that you only try to acknowledge the information you want to. Yes, it is true that few of the large Korean companies do pay higher than Japanese or other western companies. But they are minorities of your company. Take a look at Korean governments information, claiming that SMEs take up 88% of total employment;

http://www.mss.go.kr/site/eng/02/10202000000002016111504.jsp

And the wages for these large companies are 3.1 times higher than the wages of other companies;

https://pulsenews.co.kr/view.php?year=2018&no=744797

This is not something the Koreans should be proud of, but instead should be embarrassed of, as this just shows unhealthiness of the economy. If this keeps up, no matter how high the wages rise for the large companies, the average wage will not rise;

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_average_wage

Also, somebody has to do something about this "Chaebol" in Korea, as it only creates further corruption and unfair competition in the world. This will just keep the Korean economy unhealthy;

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chaebol

*Unfortunately, Korea has a college graduation rate of 80%, meaning not all college graduates are able to find full time jobs that require a college degree. Those left out of Korea's job market will then seek a job in Japan instead, knowing that wages are much lower than in Korea. But they have no choice.*

As I mentioned above, MOST of the Korean companies pay much lower wage than average Japanese companies. Only 1% of the companies in Korea are considered to be large companies. The other 99% cannot even provide jobs for all the college graduates. Therefore, high pay or low pay, it does not matter as they cannot find any kind of jobs in Korea. You are right. They have no choice but to get help from other countries.

Dec. 3, 2018
08:23 pm JST

Without intending to belittle the suffering of those forced to do slave labor by Japan, why struggle to pay them at this late date, when so few are still alive to benefit from being paid? The amount of money spent to bring about payments may very well exceed the amount actually paid, given the late date.

Dec. 3, 2018
09:22 pm JST

With all due respect to those that suffered, the war ended over 70 years ago. Most Japanese today weren’t even alive when these things happened. Japan has apologized and have made it clear they feel bad about what happened, something the Japanese do not take lightly. So maybe it is time to forgive and to heal for both countries. But I agree we should never forget what happened or history could repeat itself. To me anyway, that is what is really important here!

Dec. 4, 2018
09:12 am JST

“ Japan has apologized and have made it clear they feel bad about what happened, something the Japanese do not take lightly. “

It’s a nice thought but it is not true. In fact, the Japanese have been largely without remorse. “For many years, Koreans had a difficult time fighting for recognition as atomic bomb victims and were denied health benefits,” Wikipedia notes. It was not until 1999 that the Japanese allowed to put up a monument in the Hiroshima Memorial Park. Then there were the anti-Korean hate rallies in Okubo, Tokyo. The Japanese government has done all it can to obfuscate and deny the facts of Korean wartime slave labor and sex slavery. The mayor of Osaka recently cut sister city ties with San Francisco over a memorial to sex slaves in the downtown. Recently The Japan Times dictated that its writers use “wartime workers” for “forced labor.”

I.F. Stone, writing of postwar Germany, said, “There is not anguish in them” (the Germans). This better describes the Japanese. Japanese remorselessness is something you feel through the entire strata of Japanese society.

Dec. 4, 2018
10:19 am JST

Now, Moon administration of South Korea is arresting the former Supreme Court Judges who were un-sympathetic to the Korean conscripted workers.

Korea Joomg Ang Daily December 4, 2018

The prosecution’s revelation about the raid, which emerged on the same day that they filed for the arrests of two former Supreme Court Justices, signals that investigators are ramping up their probe into the power abuse scandal. The prosecution is reportedly planning to summon the prime suspect in the case, former Chief Justice Yang, in the next few days.

Dec. 4, 2018
11:23 am JST

Way off the point, CH3CHO. These arrests have nothing to do with the subject of this article and this thread. It has something to with power abuse, as your quotation shows. The prime suspect of a FORMER Chief Justice. So why did you bring it up here, CH3CHO?