If the United States has been such an ineffective form of Government, how did it get to be the best, granted, probably not now... but it was for a long while. It worked, the experiment worked but now it's not because someone is throwing in those old ideas that never worked but they are calling them new. In what world does that make sense?

I had a very good teacher, she taught me how to think, not what to think and not to think like everyone else because it was popular. Make up your own mind, she said. Don't follow the crowd because they are the loudest. Do what you feel is right. I'm for home and heart. Give a man a fish, he eats for a day, teach a man to fish, he eats for a lifetime. Corny, perhaps but it works for me.

Through, initially, ruthless Capitalism, and, in the second half of the 20th c., military might. It might be argued that both of these were possible because the system of government isn't really a Democracy, but was effectively an oligarchy, and that the Parties never really mattered that much. But the U.S. political scene has been getting more & more polarised, and since the old balance of another power bloc to balance out the U.S. was removed, the U.S. Government has been getting more & more ineffective. Now it's just paralysed in a morass of pathetic bickering.

Life is a hideous business, and from the background behind what we know of it peer daemoniacal hints of truth which make it sometimes a thousandfold more hideous.

"It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it." Aristotle

Posted 01 May 2013 - 07:55 PM

Ok Britney....you are so lost it makes my head spin...I could not take the BS any longer....

I am guessing you are either still packed up in your parents basement or living on campus somewhere on their dollar...your grasp of reality is tenuous at best....truth be known...you have no grip on reality at all.

In the real world, people have to work...if their trade or skill is in demand, they make more...if there is too many of them, they make less....it's called supply and demand...get to know it...apparently someone is not teaching reality so well these days. The more people there are, the less demand there is....this leads to reduced wages...it is a sh!tty side effect of reality...get used to it. You can squawk like a banshee...but it is the reality of life....

I appreciate you have this utopian vision...but it is a dream...reality does not work according to the fantasies of dreamers....best wake up to that now before you move out of your parents basement.

I would love nothing more than to have a fair world...where the effort people put into things is equivalent to the rewards they reap....but...according to the liberal agenda...that is not good enough....some liberals think everyone should have equal no matter how hard they work...this is madness. You get what you give...plain and simple. You give superior effort...you receive the best of the best...you slack and don't put forth 100%...you get a percentage equivalent to what you have put forth....if it sucks...no one to blame but yourself.

You kinda make me sick with your agenda...you have zero idea what a real and true hard days worth of work is nor do you have a clue what it's value is... hope one day you get all that you deserve...

"Liberty means responsibility. That is why most men dread it." George Bernard Shaw
"I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." Thomas Jefferson

And some people still believe that shouting worn out slogans has any relevance in a world in which it really doesn't matter how much of an Honest Day's Work one puts in, since the work that one does will probably be outsourced to China, where they'll do it for less. Reality does not work according to the old principles of "an honest Day's Work for an honest Day's pay" and all that any more.The old party allegiances are irrelevant, if they ever did have any relevance. That's the whole point.

Life is a hideous business, and from the background behind what we know of it peer daemoniacal hints of truth which make it sometimes a thousandfold more hideous.

And some people still believe that shouting worn out slogans has any relevance in a world in which it really doesn't matter how much of an Honest Day's Work one puts in, since the work that one does will probably be outsourced to China, where they'll do it for less. Reality does not work according to the old principles of "an honest Day's Work for an honest Day's pay" and all that any more.The old party allegiances are irrelevant, if they ever did have any relevance. That's the whole point.

That's bs. First, not all jobs in this country come from industrial giants and corporations. There are small local businesses everywhere who by design will stay where they are. My guys will never worry about their jobs being shipped to china. I have a hard enough time coordinating my business in one city. My guys get paid an honest wage for honest work . They apply, I give them a shot for a couple days, then we discuss wage and they either accept or they don't. Thus far, they always have. We agree on a wage and so long as they keep working they get paid what we agreed on. Nothing dishonest about that. Second, there is no slavery in this country. Nobody is forced to work or keep their job, legally binding contracts aside. Yea sure there is dishonesty and greed at the top and bottom levels of businesses everywhere. It happens but it isn't the rule or the norm. You're not going to go on about living wages and $20/hour for everyone crap I hope,

A system that begets a lack of real accountability, yet prevents a strong strategic policy other than by duplicity, is something of a failure. Those checks and balances are gridlock and the only way things get done is behind closed doors in secret deals and espionage.

America went for broke with a militaristic strategy for world domination, it hasn't failed yet, but since it can't pay its bills it will fail inevitably.
I actually don't see a story of great success.

Br Cornelius

Its seen as a win win .... they succeed they don't have to pay .... they fail nobody has anything of worth to collect ....

If the United States has been such an ineffective form of Government, how did it get to be the best, granted, probably not now... but it was for a long while. It worked, the experiment worked but now it's not because someone is throwing in those old ideas that never worked but they are calling them new. In what world does that make sense?

I had a very good teacher, she taught me how to think, not what to think and not to think like everyone else because it was popular. Make up your own mind, she said. Don't follow the crowd because they are the loudest. Do what you feel is right. I'm for home and heart. Give a man a fish, he eats for a day, teach a man to fish, he eats for a lifetime. Corny, perhaps but it works for me.

Pondering your point overnight, it occurs to me that the United States government has never been "efficient" and was never intended to be, that checks and balances were far more up front in the minds of the framers of the Constitution than was efficiency.

Still, during the nineteenth century several things were different that have since changed. One was a general attitude of civility and gentlemanliness. You read the writings of these people, and you see how they are to us seemings condescending and overly polite, but maybe that is better than today's curt, blunt ways of saying things, and reflects a different general attitude.

Then there was the fact that the Senate was a true "club," with members selected undemocratically (or at least indirectly) by the state legislatures. This meant that they were selected by people who had a much greater chance of being personally familiar with them, while nowadays Senators have to pay attention to their public image, back then what mattered was far more what they really were.Even the Party conventions where the nominees for President were chosen were far more closed-door affairs without the primary system we see today. Again, the delegates were more personally chosen while now who is a given delegate hardly matters.I also yesterday mentioned the democratization of the franchise that has happened. It is hard to argue with the extension of the franchise to women and, through voting laws, to racial minorities. Unfortunately, two of the tools in achieving the latter were removal of educational requirements and removal of property ownership requirements, and this has resulted in a much less interested and informed and more selfish electorate.

That's bs. First, not all jobs in this country come from industrial giants and corporations. There are small local businesses everywhere who by design will stay where they are. My guys will never worry about their jobs being shipped to china. I have a hard enough time coordinating my business in one city. My guys get paid an honest wage for honest work . They apply, I give them a shot for a couple days, then we discuss wage and they either accept or they don't. Thus far, they always have. We agree on a wage and so long as they keep working they get paid what we agreed on. Nothing dishonest about that. Second, there is no slavery in this country. Nobody is forced to work or keep their job, legally binding contracts aside. Yea sure there is dishonesty and greed at the top and bottom levels of businesses everywhere. It happens but it isn't the rule or the norm. You're not going to go on about living wages and $20/hour for everyone crap I hope,

No, that's the whole point. Nobody is forced to work for slave wages; therefore, when the work is outsourced to China or India they can't be forced to work for the wages that someone in China or India would be wlling to. Therefore China and India are able to compete unfairly, thus stealing jobs from America (and Europe), and that's possible because of the dominance of gigantic megacorporations that have more power than governments. Small employers, with high ethical standards, may still be able to pay an honest wage for honest work, but these small employers can only be a niche,and employ a small percentage of labour, in a world dominated by gigantic megalomaniaccorporations.

Life is a hideous business, and from the background behind what we know of it peer daemoniacal hints of truth which make it sometimes a thousandfold more hideous.

Pondering your point overnight, it occurs to me that the United States government has never been "efficient" and was never intended to be, that checks and balances were far more up front in the minds of the framers of the Constitution than was efficiency.

Indeed; it seems to have been based on a fear of power, hence all this insistence on the right to be able to defend oneself against the Guvmint. Both the people who originally drew up the Constitution, and a lot of people today, seem more concerned about being able to prevent the Government from being able to do anything effectively, rather than worrying about the fact that this makes Government so ineffectual, and then they complain that the Government has made such a mess of it.

Life is a hideous business, and from the background behind what we know of it peer daemoniacal hints of truth which make it sometimes a thousandfold more hideous.

My curiosity has piqued. How far left were you and what turned you in the other direction and where would you say you stand today?
Just a hunch, was liberalism not working out in the real world for you?

Some people are fanatical about things like politics to an almost religious degree and ultimately their minds stagnate. I have always adapted my views over time as I gain more knowledge. One of the main things that turned me away I guess, was the fact that many liberals sound exactly the same, just repeating what the mainstream of leftwing politics tells them. There is no critical thinking or reasoning involved in the average liberals views, they just repeat what they've been told and tow the party line because their peers do. They then show complete moral outrage like their peers whenever these beliefs are questioned, there is just simply no original thought there. If youre a mainstream conservative, I doubt we're going to agree on much. I am slightly right of centre (Libertarian), very similar to a "Classical Liberal", the liberals of today have no understanding of their foundational philosophies.

On a side note, I tend to critisize Libs more, because conservative corruption is basically common knowledge, but the left actually has the nerve to think of themselves as innocent. There is always an excuse, they never take responsibility, just like in one of Michael Moore's documentaries. He legitimately exposes right wing corruption, then when the left passes a corrupt bill, he says "it was clearly a conservative bill with the Democrats name on it", like the right bullies them into it. The hypocrisy and lack of logical thought is astounding.