Carney: The president is “drawing a line” on debt-limit negotation until the government reopens

posted at 7:21 pm on October 3, 2013 by Erika Johnsen

Another day without any apparent movement in either direction on reversing the government shutdown, with President Obama coming on strong with his “there will be no negotiations” stance this morning. As Ed already pointed out earlier, even if the GOP can scrape together a new “grand bargain” scheme that brings together a conglomerated shutdown-debt ceiling deal, the Democrats aren’t likely to let up on the intransigence — and I would merely like to point out the facepalm-worthy turn of phrase used by White House Press Secretary Jay Carney in reiterating said political intransigence this afternoon. Time to retire the “line drawing” imagery in reference to presidential fortitude, no? Via NRO:

We’re talking about turning the full faith and credit of the United States into something that’s an open question every year, every quarter, it could be every week, and that’s just unacceptable, so, the president is drawing a line here. He cannot do it, he will not do it.

…Yes. Anyhow. In case anybody was concerned that the White House might turn to any extraordinary powers to avert hitting the debt ceiling, they’re putting the word out that there will be no 14th-Amendment or trillion dollar coin shenanigans — just to be clear:

But Jason Furman, chairman of the White House Council of Economic Advisers, rejected the idea outright. Under the Constitution’s Article I, Section 8, Congress is granted the power “to pay the debts … of the United States” and “to borrow money on the credit of the United States.” The administration’s lawyers have concluded this means the president can’t issue government debt on his own authority, said Mr. Furman in an interview with Wall Street Journal reporters and editors. …

Another idea some have discussed is having the U.S. Treasury mint a $1 trillion platinum coin, under a federal law that envisioned commemorative coins, and deposit that at the Federal Reserve. Mr. Furman, repeating statements from early this year, said that’s also a no-go.

Blowback

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As Ed already pointed out earlier, even if the GOP can scrape together a new “grand bargain” scheme that brings together a conglomerated shutdown-debt ceiling deal, the Democrats aren’t likely to let up on the intransigence

Then default. The GOP has been eminently reasonable, passing a whole slew of different measures, and openly demonstrated a willingness to negotiate. If the Democrats can’t be bothered to respond in the same spirit, then it’s time to indeed let it burn.

Let the feral government stay “shut down”. Anyone who would even think of “negotiating” with a dishonest, lying sack of sh!t like Barky (who’s never done anything in good faith in his whole pathetic life) is a moron. The House passed a CR. The Senate and Barky can chomp on that or let the feral government continue on idle. THey can barrycade every inch of sidewalk and try to block off any access to the interstates, if they want. They can do whatever damage they want, since BarkyCare and the rest of their policies are more damaging than anything they can dream up for this.

Barky and the dems are the terrorists and they have always been. Projection is the number one tactic of despicable, lying scumbag leftists and reatarded Indonesian dog-eating America-haters. They have brought serious irreparable damage to the US since Barky first slimed into office and actually killed the Constituional Republic some time ago. We are now stuck in the American Socialist Superstate, run by a brain-dead, incompetent, third-world boob, and that is not a place anyone wants to be stuck in. No negotiation with these America-hating terrorists. Let them do their worst. They have been hammering away for years; it’s time to stand and fight. Finally.

How about a ‘Grand Bargain’ that starts with an essential personnel only funding of government? We had Clapper say that 72% of the INTEL Community isn’t essential… so why do we have them?

A skeleton crew CR to show that the intention is to keep government ‘open’ so as to ‘bargain’.

Of course this won’t go by Reid who wants a CR to fund government… so lets kill that lie right off the bat. Hand him a CR to fund government but in a way he doesn’t like.

Then comes debt ceiling time, right around the corner and Obama doesn’t want to budge and demands a forever debt ceiling. No negotiations… and that then gets pointed out that what he is really saying is that as he won’t budge on that then the government can ONLY spend what it takes in. Remember this is still with a skeleton crew government, so it can’t actually spend very much, either.

Suddenly you have a difference between what Obama wants at $4+ trillion and what comes in at $2.5 trillion.

With that as the baseline the House can then do as it has started to do and fund government piece by piece, program by program, infuriating D’s because the whole kit’n’kaboodle is off the table. And in the months of intransigence between the House, Senate and President, all the stuff that is ‘non-essential’ starts to go away. Once you get to the debt ceiling the question isn’t ‘should we raise the debt ceiling?’ but ‘what can we afford?’

Want a new normal?

Just let Obama and Reid do as they are already doing and show them up to the lies that they spew by giving what they want in a form they will detest so that their real goals become evident: to spend the Nation into oblivion.

Yet once we stop issuing new debt, then we just have to figure out how to deal with what we have… America may hit the pavement after such a drunken binge as it has been on for decades, but the ground will rise up to meet us and that will be the ground, not a forever free-fall into pure oblivion.

Looks like Obama shut down the VA activities.
Before the one spoke, they were 95% open.
Bring the pain, huh, Barrycade?
I hate him.

RovesChins on October 3, 2013 at 7:25 PM

When did that happen? My wife works for the VA and has heard nothing about that. She has been at work all week.

Johnnyreb on October 3, 2013 at 7:30 PM

Bret Bair had a report.
On Friday, everything was fine, no problems.
President idiot came out on Monday and talked about hardships for vets.
Then, I guess Wednesday, the VA announced that pain would be spread around because of the shut down.
As usual, all is fine until the president sticks his stink finger into it.

We’re talking about turning the full faith and credit of the United States into something that’s an open question every year, every quarter, it could be every week, and that’s just unacceptable, so, the president is drawing a line here. He cannot do it, he will not do it.

‘I rise today to talk about America’s debt problem.

The fact that we are here today to debate raising America’s debt limit is a sign of leadership failure. It is a sign that the U.S. Government can’t pay its own bills. It is a sign that we now depend on ongoing financial assistance from foreign countries to finance our Government’s reckless fiscal policies. Over the past 5 years, our federal debt has increased by $3.5 trillion to $8.6 trillion. That is ‘‘trillion’’ with a ‘‘T.’’

That is money that we have borrowed from the Social Security trust fund, borrowed from China and Japan, borrowed from American taxpayers. And over the next 5 years, between now and 2011, the President’s budget will increase the debt by almost another $3.5 trillion.

Numbers that large are sometimes hard to understand. Some people may wonder why they matter. Here is why: This year, the Federal Government will spend $220 billion on interest. That is more money to pay interest on our national debt than we’ll spend on Medicaid and the State Children’s Health Insurance Program. That is more money to pay interest on our debt this year than we will spend on education, homeland security, transportation, and veterans benefits combined. It is more money in one year than we are likely to spend to rebuild the devastated gulf coast in a way that honors the best of America.

And the cost of our debt is one of the fastest growing expenses in the Federal budget. This rising debt is a hidden domestic enemy, robbing our cities and States of critical investments in infrastructure like bridges, ports, and levees; robbing our families and our children of critical investments in education and health care reform; robbing our seniors of the retirement and health security they have counted on.

Every dollar we pay in interest is a dollar that is not going to investment in America’s priorities. Instead, interest payments are a significant tax on all Americans—a debt tax that Washington doesn’t want to talk about. If Washington were serious about honest tax relief in this country, we would see an effort to reduce our national debt by returning to responsible fiscal policies.

…

Our debt also matters internationally. My friend, the ranking member of the Senate Budget Committee, likes to remind us that it took 42 Presidents 224 years to run up only $1 trillion of foreign-held debt. This administration did more than that in just 5 years. Now, there is nothing wrong with borrowing from foreign countries. But we must remember that the more we depend on foreign nations to lend us money, the more our economic security is tied to the whims of foreign leaders whose interests might not be aligned with ours.

Increasing America’s debt weakens us domestically and internationally. Leadership means that ‘the buck stops here.’’ Instead, Washington is shifting the burden of bad choices today onto the backs of our children and grandchildren. America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership. Americans deserve better.I therefore intend to oppose the effort to increase America’s debt limit.’

We’re talking about turning the full faith and credit of the United States into something that’s an open question every year, every quarter, it could be every week, and that’s just

Years of wasteful deficit spending of biblical proportions already imperils the full faith and credit of the US every second of every day. Given our current leadership, we will default. It is merely a question of when.

I see he spent today at a socialist enclave in Maryland talking to a group of handpicked admirers about what despicable crude the Republicans are. This guy is nothing but a left wing rabble rouser with absolutely no leadership or managerial abilities.

‘Imagine if every taxpayer in the country could just perform an act of civil disobedience and stop funding their stupid, corrupt, conniving, oppressive, and insane government in Washington by stop paying their taxes…

Here’s a novel idea for Carney, the other reprobates in the WH, the President, and in particular Dingy Harry, the Senate Majority Leader.

How about following the law of the land – the Budget Act of 1974 in order to solve this problem.

One of the features of the budget act, each House Committee proposes a budget for the Department that they are doing their oversight for, and those get passed onto the Senate for passage there, and then onto the WH for the President’s signature.

Oh wait, Dingy Harry has said that he’s not going to act on budget / funding bills based on individual departments – AS THE LAW DEFINES.

Now that Shutdown is shaping up as Sequester 2.0 with Heartless Harry Hates Cancer Kids thrown in, anyone else get the feeling that Obama is willing to default just to blame it on Republicans? He’s signaling as much:

The President said it could not be taken for granted that the political infighting over the federal shutdown would ease in time to raise the legal debt limit before the October 17 deadline.

Speaking on CNBC last night, he said: ‘I think this time is different. I think they should be concerned. When you have a situation in which a faction is willing to default on U.S. obligations, then we are in trouble.’

Another day without any apparent movement in either direction on reversing the government shutdown

What are you talking about, Erika? Didn’t the House pass H.R. 3230 – Pay Our Guard and Reserve Act, and pass the National Parks CR today? The Republican led House is continuing to pass funding bills to get the government back to work and you are selling the notion neither side is doing anything to reverse the shutdown?

Where a president is mandated to unify and lead, Obama has divided and dallied. Where a president is mandated to facilitate negotiation in the congress and strengthen the nation at home and abroad, Obama has refused to negotiate with anyone and has destabilized the nation.

Obama has made it clear that all will stop, all of this nation’s busines, he cares not for the cost to others, the fate of veterans, the disabled, children, the poor… until he gets what he wants… Obamacare.

We cannot allow him to have his way. IF this president gets his way in this… allowing the business of the entire nation to falter and suffer… unless he gets his way…the nation will never be safe from any dictator or would be extortionist in a position of power.

Obama is behaving exactly as any third world dictator would behave and he should be removed from office for failing to do his sworn duty.

Fluke the president and his lines, in a bad way, then dump lemon juice on the wounds.

Follow this insanity – no wonder the world laughs at the land – she’s run by clinically certifiably insane people.

Still, Rep. Nancy Pelosi, D-Calif., called the new House version, which lacks a single Republican co-sponsor, “100 percent bipartisan” at a press conference Wednesday. Democrats and immigration reform advocates also say it can pass the House with 218 votes, because 26 Republicans have said they support a path to citizenship for unauthorized immigrants, one of the most controversial parts of the bill.

“Unfortunately, Democrats know Republican leadership will not touch anything being led by Leader Pelosi,” said Cesar Vargas, spokesman for the Dream Action Coalition, which represents immigrants who are in the U.S. illegally. Vargas told Yahoo News that he believed the Democrats were just playing politics, and knew the bill would not pass.

Others on the front lines of immigration said they felt discouraged that the government shutdown could mean reform had missed its window.

Bret Bair had a report.
On Friday, everything was fine, no problems.
President idiot came out on Monday and talked about hardships for vets.
Then, I guess Wednesday, the VA announced that pain would be spread around because of the shut down.
As usual, all is fine until the president sticks his stink finger into it.

RovesChins on October 3, 2013 at 7:35 PM

That is simply not true. The VA is open and fully functioning. At least it was at 1600 today.

Now Shutdown is shaping up as Sequester 2.0 with Heartless Harry Hates Cancer Kids thrown in, anyone else get the feeling that Obama is willing to default just to blame it on Republicans? He’s signaling as much:

An ‘exasperated’ Barack Obama offered no guarantees the U.S. would avoid an unprecedented default during a crisis meeting with Wall Street bankers yesterday.

The President said it could not be taken for granted that the political infighting over the federal shutdown would ease in time to raise the legal debt limit before the October 17 deadline.

Speaking on CNBC last night, he said: ‘I think this time is different. I think they should be concerned. When you have a situation in which a faction is willing to default on U.S. obligations, then we are in trouble.’

de rigueur on October 3, 2013 at 7:47 PM

If only this would actually happen. Sadly though the GOP will cave at the last minute and once again save his sorry ass.

Note to Dingy Harry – the Budget Control Act of 1974 says that the House can pick a choose which department to fund – and how much it wants to fund them.

If the Senate and House can’t decide, then it goes to conference – something that Dingy Harry has refused to consider.

The nation is being held hostage by an ideological fanatic, Dingy Harry Reid, and an intransigent ideological President, Barack Obama.

Nothing in the US Constitution gives them the right that they have self-appointed themselves to decide which laws to enforce and which laws to not enforce. Laws are supposed to be enforced until they are legally repealed. They repeat this ad nauseum re Obamacare – but fail to apply it anywhere else where it doesn’t fit their agenda.

The hypocrisy of the left is reaching a crescendo – and this is what is going to be remembered come the 2014 midterms (which could make 2010′s midterms seem like a minor course adjustment).

The political class is almost as bad as Obama, the only real difference being they don’t have as much power concentrated in one individual.

Right this moment the GOP and the Democrats are working together to try and ram through a ‘comprehensive’ immigration bill which is AMNESTY for all illegal aliens in this nation and ensures that there will be a continual supply of new illegal aliens to take the place of those granted ‘a pathway to citizenship’.

They are cynically using the distraction of the government “shut down” as cover for their actions.

The political class, from its president to the newest representative, works together in their own interest in servicing the interests of donors rather than their constituents.

AWESOME! The perimeter worked according to the DC Police Chief. They executed that woman so fast there was no way anything would have been harmed. Let me tell you, the criteria for shooting an Iraqi or Afghani vehicle approaching a check point was much higher. I am proud of our para military police force for wasting that dangerous woman. If a Soldier did this, man…….would there be trouble and apologies and payouts by the ISAF Commander. Liberalism in America: a death sentence for you in the name of security!

This week’s government shutdown represents a new low in Washington, reinforcing how little gets done and everyone hates each other. And while polls show that Republicans in Congress still get more of the blame, Americans are increasingly pointing the finger at the Oval Office.

A recent Bloomberg survey found that 40 percent blame the GOP for what’s wrong in Washington, while 38 percent blame the president and congressional Democrats. Back in February, Obama had a nine-point edge over Republicans and independents were evenly divided over who was responsible. Now, 42 percent of independents fault with Obama and his allies in Congress, while 34 percent blame Republicans on Capitol Hill.

The latest CNN poll found a similar trend, with the percentage who blame congressional Republicans for a government shutdown down five points and the percent who blame Obama up three points.

If only this would actually happen. Sadly though the GOP will cave at the last minute and once again save his sorry ass.

bgibbs1000 on October 3, 2013 at 8:02 PM

Just my opinion, but, like Waterloo, it will be a near run thing. With all the brinkmanship on both sides (and even Boehner knows better than fold too soon and lose his speakership), there’s no time to correct any miscalculations, and we’ll be over the brink before anyone realizes they’ve done it.

THEN Obama can decide if he’s REALLY going to default, i.e., not direct every financial resource at his disposal to paying interest on the national debt.

This week’s government shutdown represents a new low in Washington, reinforcing how little gets done and everyone hates each other. And while polls show that Republicans in Congress still get more of the blame, Americans are increasingly pointing the finger at the Oval Office.

I remember when the DNC and GOP used to argue over who should get the credit for stuff that got done.

We are going to default. Within the next 25 years. There is no stopping it now. If we’re going to default anyway, might as well do it now. There’s no good time to do it. I say get it over with.

Chris of Rights on October 3, 2013 at 8:19 PM

Let’s address a key point of terminology now rather than later….

A default is when the US Government either decides to ignore a debt repayment(s) or is unable to pay for a debt payment.

We’re not going to default on Oct 17 or 18 if a debt ceiling increase agreement is not reached by Congress and signed into law by the President. Federal tax revenues are still coming into the government. These are sufficient to honor the US debt obligations coming due for not only this year, but also next year.

The effect of not getting a debt ceiling increase bill passed and signed into law is that the US Government loses the ability to create and sell new debt obligations. They can’t borrow more money from any source. Funds that come in from federal tax revenues can be spent (assuming there is a spending bill passed) – but we are limited to either only spending what the federal government takes in via tax revenues or the federal government decides to print additional money (outside of taking on new debt)and inject it into the economy like the Weimar Republic or Zimbabwe have done which have hugely negative ramifications.

A valid question to ask is, Will President Obama, without a debt ceiling agreement, choose to force the US into default by refusing to service existing debt obligations because he didn’t get an increase in the debt ceiling?

Or to put another way, Will President Obama, having been denied an increase to his credit limit on his credit card, because of concerns of his ability to pay back the current debt on the credit card, then decide to stop making his monthly minimum payments on that credit card – effectively giving the credit card issuer the finger?

My fear is that given the past history of this thin-skinned, petulant, tantrum prone, narcissistic, arrogant person – the answer to the question is Yes.

If that is the case, then he will own this, and supplant James Buchanan as the worst President in the history of this nation.

The effect of not getting a debt ceiling increase bill passed and signed into law is that the US Government loses the ability to create and sell new debt obligations. They can’t borrow more money from any source.

Athos on October 3, 2013 at 8:38 PM

I don’t believe that’s true in the literal sense you’ve used (and it undercuts your argument). “Replacement (or new) debt” is issued routinely as maturing debt is retired. It’s the aggregate outstanding debt that can’t exceed the statutory limit. Maybe “incremental” instead of “new” was what you had in mind?

The reason that Boehner would not entertain sending the Senate-proposed “budget” to conference is that he could not get Reid to guarantee not to raise the debt limit. Reid wants more borrowing power via an increased debt limit in order to buy more Dem votes with goodies.

say what fund is obama getting all the jet fuel for air force one to buzz around in anyway?

I recall a candidate obama saying in 2008 he would cut the deficit in half. Well now its presidnet obama and any budget cutting is THE END OF THE WORLD AS WE KNOW IT.

say how about stopping the 80 billion a month the feds pump up wall street with?
or cutting foreign aid to terrorists like the palestinians.
or cutting the money wasted converting corn into ethanol, which as a side note would have food prices drop.