These are countries that average 1/4th or less of the US per capita spending on health care. And they live, on average, 1-2 years less than the average American.

The model average American works ~7-8 years of his career just to pay for health expenses (when Medicare, etc, are in the picture).

We could have Mexican-level care working for 2. The Mexican life expectancy is 2 years shorter than ours. 8-2-2... seems like a 4-year net gain in retirement to me. Oh, and these are prime years (the extended lifespan of Americans generally translates to dotage years). The marginal benefits are small and shrinking.

These are countries that average 1/4th or less of the US per capita spending on health care. And they live, on average, 1-2 years less than the average American.

The model average American works ~7-8 years of his career just to pay for health expenses (when Medicare, etc, are in the picture).

We could have Mexican-level care working for 2. The Mexican life expectancy is 2 years shorter than ours. 8-2-2... seems like a 4-year net gain in retirement to me. Oh, and these are prime years (the extended lifespan of Americans generally translates to dotage years). The marginal benefits are small and shrinking.

All of that is probably true for deaths due to natural causes, but I'd wager that accidental injuries in those countries are more often fatal than they would be in the usa or other countries with similar spending levels. Having my life be potentially saved at 33 years old seems to me to be a pretty large benefit of an advanced health care system.

These are countries that average 1/4th or less of the US per capita spending on health care. And they live, on average, 1-2 years less than the average American.

The model average American works ~7-8 years of his career just to pay for health expenses (when Medicare, etc, are in the picture).

We could have Mexican-level care working for 2. The Mexican life expectancy is 2 years shorter than ours. 8-2-2... seems like a 4-year net gain in retirement to me. Oh, and these are prime years (the extended lifespan of Americans generally translates to dotage years). The marginal benefits are small and shrinking.

The Man Who Laughs:Well maybe I should have said similar medical standards. I don't know much at all about american spending, but I can tell you for sure I'd rather be treated by an american hospital than a Mexican one.

Don't look below the US on the list of health care quality. Look up.

US health care is worse than France, Germany, Sweden, Canada, the UK, etc.

The Man Who Laughs: These are countries that average 1/4th or less of the US per capita spending on health care. And they live, on average, 1-2 years less than the average American.

Americans die expensive deaths. Take someone that's going to die, no matter what medical technology tries to do for them.

In the US, they will try all sorts of stuff to save someone that's ultimately not saveable (as long as they have the cash to pay).

In another country, maybe they don't try as hard.

The end result is that in both countries, it counts as one death, but the cost of that death is way higher in the US.

// you see a similar thing with fetus deaths and the reporting of fetus deaths, the US tries to save all sorts of premature births while some other countries with lower baby mortality rates have those rates because they don't count preemies as part of their regular statistics.

I have a great idea! We should destroy the economy and eliminate the ability of many, many small to medium sized businesses to remain viable and competitive in an unproven and ill fated attempt to provide "high quality" health care to all!

lordargent:The Man Who Laughs: These are countries that average 1/4th or less of the US per capita spending on health care. And they live, on average, 1-2 years less than the average American.

Americans die expensive deaths. Take someone that's going to die, no matter what medical technology tries to do for them.

In the US, they will try all sorts of stuff to save someone that's ultimately not saveable (as long as they have the cash to pay).

In another country, maybe they don't try as hard.

The end result is that in both countries, it counts as one death, but the cost of that death is way higher in the US.

// you see a similar thing with fetus deaths and the reporting of fetus deaths, the US tries to save all sorts of premature births while some other countries with lower baby mortality rates have those rates because they don't count preemies as part of their regular statistics.

The Man Who Laughs:Well maybe I should have said similar medical standards. I don't know much at all about american spending, but I can tell you for sure I'd rather be treated by an american hospital than a Mexican one.

Speak for yourself. I've had outstanding care in Mexico. Near where my place is down there, they recently built a huge new hospital specifically catering to medical tourism.

Giltric:For as fat as our nation is our health care network is doing a hell of a great farking job keeping you people alive that long. Eat smaller portions and help cut healthcare costs you pigs.

Essentially said what I was going to say. Where is the U.S. on obesity rates, diabetes, meth addiction and death/serious injury from gun violence? Considering some of the health obstacles we put in our own way, we probably do OK.

MrHappyRotter:I have a great idea! We should destroy the economy and eliminate the ability of many, many small to medium sized businesses to remain viable and competitive in an unproven and ill fated attempt to provide "high quality" health care to all!

You sound well-informed.

Tell us how decent wide-spread healthcare has destroyed Western Europe and Japan.

These are countries that average 1/4th or less of the US per capita spending on health care. And they live, on average, 1-2 years less than the average American.

The model average American works ~7-8 years of his career just to pay for health expenses (when Medicare, etc, are in the picture).

We could have Mexican-level care working for 2. The Mexican life expectancy is 2 years shorter than ours. 8-2-2... seems like a 4-year net gain in retirement to me. Oh, and these are prime years (the extended lifespan of Americans generally translates to dotage years). The marginal benefits are small and shrinking.

It likely has just as much to do with diet and lifestyle than just healthcare. Healthcare won't save you when your breakfast is Donuts and sugared Coffee, morning snack is a pack of skittles, lunch is from McDonalds, afternoon snack is a snickers and coke, dinner is pizza/wings/soda, and then a 3rd/4th snack of doritos/ice cream before bed.

MrHappyRotter:I have a great idea! We should destroy the economy and eliminate the ability of many, many small to medium sized businesses to remain viable and competitive in an unproven and ill fated attempt to provide "high quality" health care to all!

Funny how other countries can have both a strong economy and quality health care for all.But I understand. Americans are just not capable of figuring it out. It's the derp shield interfering with their brains.

Lt_Ryan:It likely has just as much to do with diet and lifestyle than just healthcare. Healthcare won't save you when your breakfast is Donuts and sugared Coffee, morning snack is a pack of skittles, lunch is from McDonalds, afternoon snack is a snickers and coke, dinner is pizza/wings/soda, and then a 3rd/4th snack of doritos/ice cream before bed.

0Icky0:MrHappyRotter: I have a great idea! We should destroy the economy and eliminate the ability of many, many small to medium sized businesses to remain viable and competitive in an unproven and ill fated attempt to provide "high quality" health care to all!

Funny how other countries can have both a strong economy and quality health care for all.But I understand. Americans are just not capable of figuring it out. It's the derp shield interfering with their brains.

I'll note, however, that the lowest category in the map is "-40." This is notable because for most of human history, the average person in even the most advanced society could not expect to live past forty, mainly because of disease. This all changed in the twentieth century, and now only a small fraction of humanities living in a handful of countries are lacking the means to live past that age. Even if you look at the poor performance of a country like Ethiopia, it's important to remember that they can already live longer than our great-great-grandparent's generation, and that they're continuing to make progress.

My sister in law just tonight posted on Facebook that she doesn't like the government telling her what to do (which in this case meant buy health insurance). Neither of her adult children have health insurance because it's too expensive and their employers don't offer it. Her grandchildren are on Medicaid. She and my brother were on welfare back when they first got married (she had a kid from a prior relationship--got knocked up at 16). Now, I fully believe in tax-funded safety nets. We have them because life is hard and shiat happens. I don't begrudge her her history of welfare (like the extreme majority of recipients, they got off it as soon as possible), and I don't begrudge her grand kids their Medicaid; it's not their fault their (divorced) parents' employers don't offer insurance. But for her to biatch about the government telling her what to do when her family has directly benefited from it, well, fark her and her hypocrisy.