Meet the Druid - Official discussion thread

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Agreed. The game is not better or more interesting by adding needless keystrokes, cooldowns and clunkiness.

Archeage actually did this right. One hot bar for all skills. Seemlesly switching between bow and swords was so nice and smooth.

Well the Ranger does have in auto instant switch from melee tray to ranged on the melee tray through a combo. All it needs is a ranged tray ability that does the same and its tons more smoother.

We don't know yet if the Druid will have the same type of instant tray swap. Maybe it'll have a combo within a heal tray ability when her incinerate resource gets too high so get start DPS without having to wait the CD when hit the T key to swap.

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I really like the way she looks, her hair is a bit crazy, but with full customization that can be fixed . Excited for this archetype.

Whatcha talking bout willis? Her hair is awesome! maybe need a few more twigs and maybe a birdnest in it but pretty much looks like mine irl... Now I am ready to start jumping into CF with Drood coming... wheres my AOE root/bleed and my Barkskin damage absorber?

The reason I don't like it much is, as Nakawe said, because it feels awkward or clunky to me. It isn't fluid. Having something in the game that feels awkward and clunky (as I agree the tray switch feels) simply for the sake of "punishing" the class for having so many powers feels like artificial complexity to me. Its essentially the same reason I don't dig the finger-dancing combos. It just doesn't flow organically to me and it feels artificial and out of place a bit.

That said, it isn't close to a deal-breaker to me. I can deal with it. I can macro around it to large degree with a programmable mouse / kb. But I share the general sentiment a bit. Maybe the Druid tray swap won't feel as choppy and slow to me. We shall see. I'm excited for the Archetype regardless.

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But it feels less clunky and more accessible to someone else, what than? Personal preference isn't really telling much, unless your willing to invite and cater to others preference in spite of your own, it's a fairly marginal concern.

Before you criticize someone, walk a mile in their shoes... Than if they're upset, they'll be a mile away, and barefoot

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Not overly valuable in a void. I mean, "I don't like cooldowns and attack delays because that feels clunky to me" wouldn't mean much, would it? What would they do then? Just make everything instantaneous and spammable? There are reasons for things. If you can address both the pros AND cons, then point out why your cons outweigh the pros, that's pretty useful. If you provide what amounts to an "I don't like it," that's not as helpful. Obviously that matters, as you're one of the people they want the game to be enjoyed by. But, they have to consider reasons alongside opinions.

I feel like you're missing the point of separated bars. For the Ranger, it's to bestow some level of commitment onto going with ranged attacks or melee attacks, so you can't just go "sword sword, pew pew pew, sword pew sword!" For the Druid, it's so you can't just go "heal heal nuke, nuke heal, nuke nuke heal!"

Complexity is not a punishment. As with all things, it must be present in moderation. But simpler does not mean better. A certain level of complexity allows for gameplay decisions that can't even exist if things are too simple.

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I like the idea of the tray-swapping mechanic, but "ignition" doesn't sit well with me from a fluff point of view and I'm also not enormously happy with both sides of this archetype being ranged. Why? It doesn't seem to me like there's an enormous downside. If you have two Druids in your party then they can coordinate to make sure one is healing while the other is damage dealing. Too much upside for one archetype for me.

Something I'd be interested in seeing is this;

Standard Druid power tray is ranged/healing. A mix of damage and healing. They stay in this power tray as they both heal and do damage. However, each ability on this tray gives various amounts of a debuff: ferocity. As they heal and deal ranged damage, their bond to nature becomes fiercer and fiercer and they find it more difficult to keep focus. Maths time!

With an arbitrary value of 100 for being the flip point of ferocity, the Druid gets a debuff of the same name.

At 100, the debuff kicks in.

At 125, the debuff reduces ranged damage/healing output by 25%.

At 150, the debuff increases to 50%.

At 175, the debuff increases to 75%.

At 200, the Druid automatically flips to their other power tray; melee damage. They also transform into an animal and must close to melee range to dump ferocity. Give them a rapid movement ability to close the range they are at. Medium/High damage abilities that cost a moderate amount of ferocity per use.

The Druid can manually manage their ferocity by: stopping attacking (ferocity ticks down by a small amount per second), using a 'feint' effect (long cooldown, drops a moderate amount of ferocity) or manually activating their other power tray (only available above 125 ferocity).

This then gives us a support archetype that can heal and deal ranged damage, and then a quick burst of melee damage. Downsides? Well, if they want to avoid flipping over to their ferocious side, they need to manage their damage/healing output or use their long CD. The 'ferocious' side could then be a glass cannon but it's in melee range so easier to deal with especially as it wouldn't have ferocity-generating abilities. Essentially, you have to get in and get out - if you're caught then you will quite possibly die and your team is down their support archetype.

Personally, I'd be quite excited to see an archetype like that, and it would take skill to play.

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Whatcha talking bout willis? Her hair is awesome! maybe need a few more twigs and maybe a birdnest in it but pretty much looks like mine irl... Now I am ready to start jumping into CF with Drood coming... wheres my AOE root/bleed and my Barkskin damage absorber?

I like straighter hair just a preference lol. I hope she has an AOE DOT/root.

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When playing MMOs I have always gotten a great deal of pleasure from healing powers. Other players seem to appreciate the assistance during combat and this can make a player who can heal feel very welcome. The combination heal/fight mechanic is an interesting twist. I had to smile when I saw the model, T&A is a standard in MMOs. For the guys it is Conan. When playing WOW several of my male friends liked playing female characters and the first thing they mentioned was the 'sexy' talk, then the abilities (which are the same as the male of course). It might be a little interesting if they 'modified' the heal or nuke powers to be a little different from each other as to male/female Archetypes.

Archetypes are no longer the central point of the game any more but are mostly like suits of armor with different characteristics you can obtain and use then change for different reasons. Not everyone feels the same about this but that is the direction of the game and no longer a point of consideration. The description of the Druid has certainly caught my interest.

I have a 2015 $100 package and I assume that I will be allowed to 'start' with the Archetype of my choice and then, thru play, get additional Archetype 'bodies'. I would like to know if I purchase an additional 2016 package that includes the game would I then be allowed to 'start' an additional character Archetype? I want to get an Archetype for crafting for my guild but also be able to begin play in a combat role from the start with a combat Archetype without waiting for gameplay to get one. Frankly the character slots issue hasn't been explained as best I can determine. I want to be able to start a crafter character (with off line training) while being able to immediately enter into combat with my Guildmates. The Druid seems perfect for me in this role so if anyone has any info about character slots and 2015/2016 pledges, please enlighten me.

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When playing MMOs I have always gotten a great deal of pleasure from healing powers. Other players seem to appreciate the assistance during combat and this can make a I have a 2015 $100 package and I assume that I will be allowed to 'start' with the Archetype of my choice and then, thru play, get additional Archetype 'bodies'. I would like to know if I purchase an additional 2016 package that includes the game would I then be allowed to 'start' an additional character Archetype? I want to get an Archetype for crafting for my guild but also be able to begin play in a combat role from the start with a combat Archetype without waiting for gameplay to get one. Frankly the character slots issue hasn't been explained as best I can determine. I want to be able to start a crafter character (with off line training) while being able to immediately enter into combat with my Guildmates. The Druid seems perfect for me in this role so if anyone has any info about character slots and 2015/2016 pledges, please enlighten me.

With the vessel system there are no longer character slots - all skill training is tied to your account rather than individual archetypes. You can pick up and switch between archetypes very easily while retaining your existing skill training.

If you are asking about skill training multiple archetypes at once then VIP subscription account may be what your after? But it won't help if you're asking about being able to train multiple crafting archetypes at once - can still only train one general skill at once (which includes crafting)

so you can train your crafting while still training one archetype's skill tree or three different archetype classes at once on VIP.

How does skill advancement work?

A player may set a skill to “train” and this skill earns skill experience points (XP) in real world time. Every few seconds, skill XP points trickle into skills that are set to passively train, whether you are online or offline. In effect, your characters keep advancing while you do things like sleep or go to work – and you aren’t at a numerical disadvantage to other players who have more free time than you.

How many skills can I train at once?

A standard Crowfall account may train one general and one archetype skill concurrently at any time. A VIP Crowfall account may train one general and three different archetype skills at a time. (No triple-dipping into one archetype!)

Our goal, as previously stated, is unchanged: VIP status should give you more options but no more power in any one-on-one engagement. VIP members do not get an advantage in general skills, but they DO have the benefits of having more variety in the archetypes they can readily play.

Edited April 11, 2016 by Tinnis

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I do not understand why you (ArtCraft Ent.) feel the need to control the playstyle so much. Why use a negative approach (self-immolation/damage) to practically force the player to do other than healing. There are other methods to limit healing spamming; other than negative approaches.

You know, it's like in psychology : positive reinforcement has better effects than negative or punishment.

You planned the same logic with the Ranger : you oblige the player to do ranged attack (gathering power resources) before going melee. It is too linear for my taste. Players tend not to like cookie-cutters.

Why not allow more freedom of playstyles, but use other forms of limits or incentives.

Examples :

When the Druid damages enemies with her magic, she saps a bit of their energy, making her upcoming healing magic more powerful (positive/bonus);

You can apply the same bonus logic for the Ranger. Or maybe this other method: The Ranger can be a decent warrior in melee, but for a limited amount of time: he/she has a Ferocity pool that, once drained, melee powers have reduced effects (a penalty, but without blocking the flexibility of using decent melee if, for example, you are attacked before being able to use ranged). As the Ranger moves away from melee, she slowly regains her Ferocity pool.

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I do not understand why you (ArtCraft Ent.) feel the need to control the playstyle so much. Why use a negative approach (self-immolation/damage) to practically force the player to do other than healing. There are other methods to limit healing spamming; other than negative approaches.

You know, it's like in psychology : positive reinforcement has better effects than negative or punishment.

You planned the same logic with the Ranger : you oblige the player to do ranged attack (gathering power resources) before going melee. It is too linear for my taste. Players tend not to like cookie-cutters.

Why not allow more freedom of playstyles, but use other forms of limits or incentives.

Examples :

When the Druid damages enemies with her magic, she saps a bit of their energy, making her upcoming healing magic more powerful (positive/bonus);

You can apply the same bonus logic for the Ranger. Or maybe this other method: The Ranger can be a decent warrior in melee, but for a limited amount of time: he/she has a Ferocity pool that, once drained, melee powers have reduced effects (a penalty, but without blocking the flexibility of using decent melee if, for example, you are attacked before being able to use ranged). As the Ranger moves away from melee, she slowly regains her Ferocity pool.

If they can't "control" the playstyle then they can't make every archetype feel unique and different. If you can turn a Druid into a Champ, why make the druid? Course, when they add Disciplines and the like you might just be able to do that.

Why they went with this Yin/Yang approach, I don't know. They couldn't done the opposite where healing drains resource and nuking generates it. They're not trying to discourage healing, per se. They're trying to make the Druids balance themselves between healing and nuking. Heal too much and you kill yourself. Nuke too much and you become a sitting duck and die.

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You also have to consider promotions and skills and how they will affect the self-immolation. Maybe there are skills that will allow you to heal for longer before the immolation, or that will lessen the effect of the immolation.

Also, there will likely be times when you will accept the immolation because healing is needed "right now". I wouldn't call that linear, I would that making choices matter.

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This isn't a punishment, it's just a way to manage your "Mana pool". heals go one way, offense goes the other. Lorewise they explained why it's that way (extra strain trying to get power from a dead goddess). Personally I think the tray switching is fairly smooth, and certainly better than some other ways I've seen. The Ranger can't stay in melee forever because, let's face it, the melee for a base Ranger is a backup for when you can't take the time to shoot or are running low on ammo. And both are more interesting and offer more control than a basic Mana bar. A druid that wants to could probably hop between trays and never have more than 25%.

On a side note, am I the only one that thinks duel dagger/short swords a very impractical choice for what is effectively a woodsman? Hatchets, sure, they can be used as tools, spear, keeps predators at bay, but daggers? Sorry, duel wielding being a standard style for Rangers has been one of my pet peeves for a long time.