I didn't like the Master - for me, no gravitas, and just maniacal again like Simm's version, except Simm did it better. What could have been a really chilling scene between Barton and his mum was rushed and not effective because there was hardly any dialogue between them (why not give her some bloody lines and perhaps we'd get a proper understanding on what made Barton a mass-murdering psychopath). There was barely any conclusion to the alien/Barton plot. The laser shoe business was possibly one of the most childish, rubbish things I have ever seen in the history of the show. I'm really disappointed in this 2 parter. Hopefully the Gallifrey storyline will raise their game a bit and give it all a bit more depth.

I absolutely adored the laser boots! One of the funniest bits of the episode.

I suspect we'll see the Master again this series. Towards the end perhaps.

Well I'm genuinely glad someone liked the laser shoes Airborae.

We were raging at the screen at it's ridiculousness.

From the same poverty of imagination poundshop as the sonic sunglasses. Apparently Dr Who is a comedy now.

Jumped the shark when they introduced Lovelace & Babbage. Then in came some Nazis, to placate those viewers who think the idea of female Dr and a representative racial mix among companions is somehow offensively 'woke'.
The sight of a brown skinned man in Nazi regalia is practically an Islamophobe's wet dream.

I take you missed the doctor mentioning the Master had a perception filter on him

Well, I thought it was entertaining and and bounced along with great pace. I still have issues with Chibnall's writing and Jodie's take on the Doctor, but it was a vast improvement on last year.

Was it ever really explained why the shimmering aliens took out all the spies?

Yes that was explained.

I must admit Ive watched it twice now... and im still a bit confused as to how and why Ada was being taken multiple times. The master said that he thought the Doctor would die when taken and neither she nor Yaz did, explained due to artron energy etc. Ada has no such reason for surviving... and no idea why she in particular was taken many times and returned unharmed.

Also the attacked spies were left empty... were they already 'hard drives' i.e. the fate of the rest of humanity?.... if so, then why did Lenny Henry's mum get told she was about the be the first.

I loved that episode and again, it's because of Sacha Dhawan. Not only is he a brilliant Master but he's making Jodie Whittaker up her game and the intimate history between the Doctor and the Master is always interesting for me to watch and these versions of the characters are no exceptions to that rule.

Of course the Master would underestimate his alliance with the Kasaavin and Daniel conveniently disappeared when things went to shit but hopefully it won't be long before the Master resurfaces again.

The Master destroying Gallifrey over the Timeless Child reveal works for me. It doesn't invalidate anything RTD or Moffat did and hopefully it'll pay off as an arc. It's long past time for this Doctor to be taken out of her comfort zone.

It's slightly worrying though the Doctor has better chemistry with guest characters like Ada Lovelace and Noor Inayat Khan (both of whom were used well) than she does her own companions.

Her own companions even work better among themselves than with the Doctor as well. On the other hand, at least they're finally asking questions about the Doctor, which is what they should've been doing since last series, 9/10

Well, I thought it was entertaining and and bounced along with great pace. I still have issues with Chibnall's writing and Jodie's take on the Doctor, but it was a vast improvement on last year.

Was it ever really explained why the shimmering aliens took out all the spies?

Yes that was explained.

I must admit Ive watched it twice now... and im still a bit confused as to how and why Ada was being taken multiple times. The master said that he thought the Doctor would die when taken and neither she nor Yaz did, explained due to artron energy etc. Ada has no such reason for surviving... and no idea why she in particular was taken many times and returned unharmed.

Also the attacked spies were left empty... were they already 'hard drives' i.e. the fate of the rest of humanity?.... if so, then why did Lenny Henry's mum get told she was about the be the first.

Weren't they studying Ada, so assumedly she didn't die because they were intending for her to survive the trip. What doesn't make sense is that people were around her when she had her seizure, suggesting she wasn't vanishing and re-appearing. It was somehow all in her mind. But then that doesn't explain how the Doctor got dragged along.

Add to that, the only reason they seemed to be studying Ada was that she was involved with early computer tech. But they were studying her in order to work out human DNA and how to turn us into hard drives. So really any human would have done for study. There's nothing really special about having worked on a difference engine that would assist in converting DNA into a storage medium!

As for the spies, they were supposedly killed because they were getting close to discovering the invasion. I'm guessing they were just killed using the incomplete "reformat" technology. So kinda like they just wrote nonsense code over their DNA to kill them. Why they didn't transport their bodies to their realm is a mystery though. Leaving them behind when trying to cover their tracks by killing them was a little counter-intuitive.

As for the Master being shocked at the Doctor not dying, that is also odd, as he was right there when Yaz came back, all still living and stuff!

This is the thing I don't like about Chibnall's writing. He always sets up some mystery and the pay-off either falls flat (eg. the "big reveals" of it being a race in Ghost Monument or "we're on a spaceship" in Tsuranga) or its completely nonsensical when everything is revealed (eg.the whole plot of Resolution). He's not the only writer who does it, but I hate it whoever it is. Its just lazy storytelling - hiding the poor plotting behind a drip-feed of information so you can't piece it all together easily and then quickly distract the viewer with either an explosion or some pratfall comedy.

@radders2012, Please see my post #368. There is no valid argument that @solenoid has yet made. Good luck in finding one.

It doesn't matter on the religious background of the SOE agent.

Might need to read back, but why is it an issue that this particular agent expert in morse code was in the story? Or is it a 'well of course it wouldn't be a *white male*' sort of stuff? I noted your comment about the BBC loving if this Master was gay and appearing Asian and moved on. But. I did think, oh yeah, gay Asian males are *all over* BBC programmes, aren't they? (Sarcastically I admit!)

Is every showrunner going to play hokey cokey with Gallifrey (it's destroyed/saved/destroyed again) from now on?

I don't know but if that is the serial arc across this series, I have to ask: why?

Destroying Gallifrey and saying the Doctor was the last of the Time Lords was a great way to launch the revived series - no dense and confusing backstory that the casual audience wouldn't understand. Saving Gallifrey and then destroying it again (because of some sort of Time Lord lie?) is pointless and goes back to the same trap Moffat fell into - the sense that you have to understand DW's history to appreciate the show.

And I'm sorry, but however good Sacha Dhawan may be, I don't see any point in reviving the Master, either. If there was a new story to tell with him - fine. But that wasn't a new story - ultimately, it was just a means to access a story about an alien planet that it's hard to care about.

A shame as there were some good elements to those episodes (I would swap Ada for Graham, Yaz and Ryan in a heartbeat).

@radders2012, Please see my post #368. There is no valid argument that @solenoid has yet made. Good luck in finding one.

It doesn't matter on the religious background of the SOE agent.

Might need to read back, but why is it an issue that this particular agent expert in morse code was in the story? Or is it a 'well of course it wouldn't be a *white male*' sort of stuff? I noted your comment about the BBC loving if this Master was gay and appearing Asian and moved on. But. I did think, oh yeah, gay Asian males are *all over* BBC programmes, aren't they? (Sarcastically I admit!)

The BBC is renound now for using positive discrimination for casting and exagerrating representation of certain groups in shows. Hence my comment about an Asian Master.
I also pointed out it was somewhat remiss to have Ada instead of some other female computer scientist. I just thought those characters weren't great choices for different reasons (it also leaves the main assistants with little to do). I care not a jot what religion Ada followed (if any).

@radders2012, Please see my post #368. There is no valid argument that @solenoid has yet made. Good luck in finding one.

It doesn't matter on the religious background of the SOE agent.

Might need to read back, but why is it an issue that this particular agent expert in morse code was in the story? Or is it a 'well of course it wouldn't be a *white male*' sort of stuff? I noted your comment about the BBC loving if this Master was gay and appearing Asian and moved on. But. I did think, oh yeah, gay Asian males are *all over* BBC programmes, aren't they? (Sarcastically I admit!)

The BBC is renound now for using positive discrimination for casting and exagerrating representation of certain groups in shows. Hence my comment about an Asian Master.
I also pointed out it was somewhat remiss to have Ada instead of some other female computer scientist. I just thought those characters weren't great choices for different reasons (it also leaves the main assistants with little to do). I care not a jot what religion Ada followed (if any).

We have a British Master, by the way. He was born in this country.

If you don’t have the balls to say your problem is that the Master is not white, don’t hide behind the tired old claptrap that is usually trotted out by people that aren’t to keen on seeing more non white people on the TV.

Sacha Dhawan was born in this country. I don’t know if his Hindu parents were born here but that doesn’t matter. The guy is a British Master.

By the way what kind of a name is Delgado? British born to foreign parents. He is white though, so no problem there.

It makes one wonder just what language you use elsewhere when not curbed by DS’s strick guidelines.

@radders2012, Please see my post #368. There is no valid argument that @solenoid has yet made. Good luck in finding one.

It doesn't matter on the religious background of the SOE agent.

Might need to read back, but why is it an issue that this particular agent expert in morse code was in the story? Or is it a 'well of course it wouldn't be a *white male*' sort of stuff? I noted your comment about the BBC loving if this Master was gay and appearing Asian and moved on. But. I did think, oh yeah, gay Asian males are *all over* BBC programmes, aren't they? (Sarcastically I admit!)

The BBC is renound now for using positive discrimination for casting and exagerrating representation of certain groups in shows. Hence my comment about an Asian Master.
I also pointed out it was somewhat remiss to have Ada instead of some other female computer scientist. I just thought those characters weren't great choices for different reasons (it also leaves the main assistants with little to do). I care not a jot what religion Ada followed (if any).

We have a British Master, by the way. He was born in this country.

If you don’t have the balls to say your problem is that the Master is not white, don’t hide behind the tired old claptrap that is usually trotted out by people that aren’t to keen on seeing more non white people on the TV.

Sacha Dhawan was born in this country. I don’t know if his Hindu parents were born here but that doesn’t matter. The guy is a British Master.

By the way what kind of a name is Delgado? British born to foreign parents. He is white though, so no problem there.

It makes one wonder just what language you use elsewhere when not curbed by DS’s strick guidelines.

@radders2012, Please see my post #368. There is no valid argument that @solenoid has yet made. Good luck in finding one.

It doesn't matter on the religious background of the SOE agent.

Might need to read back, but why is it an issue that this particular agent expert in morse code was in the story? Or is it a 'well of course it wouldn't be a *white male*' sort of stuff? I noted your comment about the BBC loving if this Master was gay and appearing Asian and moved on. But. I did think, oh yeah, gay Asian males are *all over* BBC programmes, aren't they? (Sarcastically I admit!)

The BBC is renound now for using positive discrimination for casting and exagerrating representation of certain groups in shows. Hence my comment about an Asian Master.
I also pointed out it was somewhat remiss to have Ada instead of some other female computer scientist. I just thought those characters weren't great choices for different reasons (it also leaves the main assistants with little to do). I care not a jot what religion Ada followed (if any).

We have a British Master, by the way. He was born in this country.

If you don’t have the balls to say your problem is that the Master is not white, don’t hide behind the tired old claptrap that is usually trotted out by people that aren’t to keen on seeing more non white people on the TV.

Sacha Dhawan was born in this country. I don’t know if his Hindu parents were born here but that doesn’t matter. The guy is a British Master.

By the way what kind of a name is Delgado? British born to foreign parents. He is white though, so no problem there.

It makes one wonder just what language you use elsewhere when not curbed by DS’s strick guidelines.

Michelle Gomez too.....

Indeed.

However, only her father is a foreigner. Her mum is Scottish. So that makes it half acceptable for her to play the Master. The unacceptable part is instantly cancelled out because she is white. Then again she is a women so that unacceptable part comes back into play.

Gosh, it’s all such a mine field isn’t it? I’m not sure what the rules are.

Maybe ‘live and let live’ is a more noble route to take rather than what someone looks like.

This is why the Master is always portrayed by someone with foreign roots, because foreigners are evil. Everyone knows that. TBH I'm wary of the Scottish too. I mean, "Capaldi"? That's never an English name.

I thought this episode was so much better than anything in the last series and made me hopeful for the future.
Noor Inayat Khan was a truly brave woman, not only going undercover into enemy territory but going to a country which was occupied by an evil regime that believed that people of her skin colour were 'inferior'.
Thus the danger of losing her life was even more acute than for the other courageous agents. (and make no mistake the risk was very great indeed - the life expectancy of a wireless operator was six weeks.)
Within months of this fictitious meeting with the doctor the real life ,Noor was betrayed, imprisoned, interrogated under torture, taken to Dachau concentration camp and, with three other female operatives, shot.
With this in mind I think she deserved a more fitting valediction than a murmured 'Good Luck'. Maybe as she passed out the Doctor saying something like 'You will forget, Noor, but we will remember, at the going down of the sun, and in the morning.' Or something based on lines from the Resistance code poem 'The life that I have' A better writer could have come up with something short but poignant. But not just 'Good luck' (even if she did say it in french.)

This is why the Master is always portrayed by someone with foreign roots, because foreigners are evil. Everyone knows that. TBH I'm wary of the Scottish too. I mean, "Capaldi"? That's never an English name.

Heh.

Tbh it's only a certain % of people on tinternet who make this sort of thing an issue (NB I'm talking generally, not about this place) and although I try to avoid it have heard that there have been certain comments made on certain youtube channels that really make me think....Oh FFS about Sacha's casting. Not his performance (which IMO was very good; said years ago on here that I'd like to see him have a go as The Doctor cos I really rate him as an actor) but *why* he was cast. And certain people seem a bit confused about their nasty attitudes too. Oh, it's always the white male like me who is being demonised. SJW NPC tick-boxing blah blah.

Cue Henry and Dhawan being cast as Main villain (possible genocide) and other villain....who kills his bloody mother!!

Oooh, they were only cast because of....well, you get my drift.

Arseholes. And I'm not even 'triggered'; just makes me go....oh dear. (That type appear to me to be constantly 'triggered' about something or other, really!)

@radders2012, Please see my post #368. There is no valid argument that @solenoid has yet made. Good luck in finding one.

It doesn't matter on the religious background of the SOE agent.

Might need to read back, but why is it an issue that this particular agent expert in morse code was in the story? Or is it a 'well of course it wouldn't be a *white male*' sort of stuff? I noted your comment about the BBC loving if this Master was gay and appearing Asian and moved on. But. I did think, oh yeah, gay Asian males are *all over* BBC programmes, aren't they? (Sarcastically I admit!)

The BBC is renound now for using positive discrimination for casting and exagerrating representation of certain groups in shows. Hence my comment about an Asian Master.
I also pointed out it was somewhat remiss to have Ada instead of some other female computer scientist. I just thought those characters weren't great choices for different reasons (it also leaves the main assistants with little to do). I care not a jot what religion Ada followed (if any).

We have a British Master, by the way. He was born in this country.

If you don’t have the balls to say your problem is that the Master is not white, don’t hide behind the tired old claptrap that is usually trotted out by people that aren’t to keen on seeing more non white people on the TV.

Sacha Dhawan was born in this country. I don’t know if his Hindu parents were born here but that doesn’t matter. The guy is a British Master.

By the way what kind of a name is Delgado? British born to foreign parents. He is white though, so no problem there.

It makes one wonder just what language you use elsewhere when not curbed by DS’s strick guidelines.

Is it the fact that I didn't say anything remotely racist that annoyed you and triggered your bizarre rant about racism? There wasn't actually anything nasty in what I said but you were so intent on being offended you invented something anyway?
FWIW I think both Jodie and dark Sacha need to hone their interpretations of their respective characters.

I don't know if The Master used The Moment as didn't that turn the Planet to literal dust not just an Apocalyptic no mans land.

The moment would have destroyed the planet and the Master assuming he went back in Time and changed the events in the 'Day of the Doctor'. Plus the Doctor could simply do the same and undo what he did. The time locked argument does not apply because it would stop the Master and the Doctor.

Moffat had to bring back the Time Lords because without them there are no more regeneration cycles. It's also debatable whether a Tardis would even work without them although the script writers don't seem to let the obvious technical issues get in the way of a good story. Chibnal's real reason is probably the same as RTD's, which was that he found the Time Lord episodes boring.

So I assume the Master travelled to the end of time in our Universe and found Gallifrey the way the Doctor left it at the end of 'Hell bent'. Some how he defeated the entire Time Lord race. How he knew exactly where they were there remains a mystery. The Doctor did not and was brought there.

Wonder what happened to Clara? She only exists because of their Time extraction room, now rubble.

I don't know if The Master used The Moment as didn't that turn the Planet to literal dust not just an Apocalyptic no mans land.

The moment would have destroyed the planet and the Master assuming he went back in Time and changed the events in the 'Day of the Doctor'. Plus the Doctor could simply do the same and undo what he did. The time locked argument does not apply because it would stop the Master and the Doctor.

Moffat had to bring back the Time Lords because without them there are no more regeneration cycles. It's also debatable whether a Tardis would even work without them although the script writers don't seem to let the obvious technical issues get in the way of a good story. Chibnal's real reason is probably the same as RTD's, which was that he found the Time Lord episodes boring.

So I assume the Master travelled to the end of time in our Universe and found Gallifrey the way the Doctor left it at the end of 'Hell bent'. Some how he defeated the entire Time Lord race. How he knew exactly where they were there remains a mystery. The Doctor did not and was brought there.

Wonder what happened to Clara? She only exists because of their Time extraction room, now rubble.

If there were an Olympic medal for ret-conning, Doctor Who would have a cabinet full of them!

I don't know if The Master used The Moment as didn't that turn the Planet to literal dust not just an Apocalyptic no mans land.

The moment would have destroyed the planet and the Master assuming he went back in Time and changed the events in the 'Day of the Doctor'. Plus the Doctor could simply do the same and undo what he did. The time locked argument does not apply because it would stop the Master and the Doctor.

Moffat had to bring back the Time Lords because without them there are no more regeneration cycles. It's also debatable whether a Tardis would even work without them although the script writers don't seem to let the obvious technical issues get in the way of a good story. Chibnal's real reason is probably the same as RTD's, which was that he found the Time Lord episodes boring.

So I assume the Master travelled to the end of time in our Universe and found Gallifrey the way the Doctor left it at the end of 'Hell bent'. Some how he defeated the entire Time Lord race. How he knew exactly where they were there remains a mystery. The Doctor did not and was brought there.

Wonder what happened to Clara? She only exists because of their Time extraction room, now rubble.

Young Chris Chibnall watching Season 23:

"What is this dull 'Timelords sitting around chatting in a room whilst watching episodes of Doctor Who on a screen' stuff? Think I'll go on 'Open Air' and just moan about it a bit.....for now. Shame there's no other way to criticise stuff to lots of people just by pressing a button. But one day....And Ahhh, you just wait a few decades. and see what I do; When I am KING OF DOCTOR WHO!!!!!"

(Manic laughter, tosses head back. Glasses fall off. Quietly retrieves them and puts them back on again. Goes and revises for his A-levels....)

solenoidIs it the fact that I didn't say anything remotely racist that annoyed you and triggered your bizarre rant about racism? There wasn't actually anything nasty in what I said but you were so intent on being offended you invented something anyway?

It is interesting that when someone calls another poster out on something the immediate comeback is to say the other person is having a rant whilst conveniently ignoring the points they made. I wasn’t having a rant, I’m afraid, I was responding to a post you made. You haven’t annoyed me. Sorry.

Of course you are not going to say anything outwardly racist as you would be banned from this forum and you know that. That is why you hide behind cowardly and measly words that countless people like you have right across these boards when ever they see non-white people on the TV.

For example, and this is old school.

The BBC is renound now for using positive discrimination for casting and exagerrating representation of certain groups in shows. Hence my comment about an Asian Master.

I.e. The only reason Sacha Dhawan was cast is because he is non-white and part of the BBC representation. Not because the writer/showrunner liked him as an actor, saw him in something and thought he would make a good Master; not that Mr. Dhawan may have auditioned as part of open auditions, but all because of his skin colour and nothing else. An ”Asian Master.” Well done.

A gay Asian perhaps? The BBC would love to do that for the Master.

Aye.

Ada Lovelace did indeed take an interest in Babbage's work. But she was no genius nor critical in the development of computers as say other females were (Quite a few US military/NASA female scientists are noteworthy but I guess Ada's Victorian clothing suited the story better).

And of course Ada Lovelace, one of the first people to realise the potential of Babbage’s ‘computer’ out side of basic numerical calculations, was only chosen because of her Victorian clothing would look good and was only “shoe-horned in because of some BBC edict.” Not because of her stature in the world of early computing. But at least she looked good in a dress. (Female NASA scientists were not around at the time of Babbage’s computer so they would not have been involved with it). No doubt if the show did feature a female NASA scientist you would still say it was part of some “BBC edict” and not because of who said scientist was.

I suppose it also didn’t help that Noor was a muslim, as well as being the first feamle SOE, but with so many SOEs to pick from, from both sexes why pick her. Although, if they had had gone with another female SOE you would still say it was because some “BBC edict”.

Women and blacks eh?

The internet’s an old place now. It doesn’t take much to read between the lines, especially on DS, when someone trots out the old ‘BBC diversity’ whenever a non white, or woman, is cast.

Now don’t go mistaking that for a rant or me being annoyed. Your post is one of countless in my time on DS that hid behind certain ways of posting due to DS’s strict moderating on such issues.