TCW vs. Rebels debates are not allowed in the Television forum. As in, discussions that descend into TCW/Rebels bashing/gushing will be subject to Mod action. Contrasting the themes, story lines, characters, etc. between the shows is allowed (welcomed, even). "Versus" debates/arguments, however, are a deal-breaker.

Exactly. I'm not saying it's logical, but it's consistent with Satine's headspace in Corruption.
Theoretically a corrupt police officer could find some way to use the evidence to make Mandalore more corrupt.

"Yahyahyahyahyahyahyah Yessssssss! I vill use ze poisoned tea to show zat Zatine cannot control her government and ze peeple vill demand that Death Watch take over to keep zem safe! Yahyahyahyahyahyah!"

The problem is that any nutcase can rationalize a course of action in theoretical terms. But the fact of the matter is that Satine threw away evidence that proved her allegations. She is nothing more than an idiot. It would have been fine if someone other than a strawman had called her out, but she's portrayed as being always in the right.

Maybe it's like what Obi-Wan said: "Everyone may have an opinion, but the Duchess only cares for her own."

I liked that Satine went to extremes in the situation; it adds more to her character.

I didn't care for that at all, I'm afraid. I'm a guy who loves the political episodes of CW, but I just found this to be very dull. Perhaps if it had included more interesting characters I would have enjoyed it more, heck, even a holographic Obi Wan cameo would have livened things up.

I thought Satine came across as obnoxious and arrogant, belittling everyone who didn't agree with her. Maybe this was the point, but I really enjoyed her character last year, and thought she was probably the best new character in CW. This time, I just found her annoying, and couldn't wait for her to stop talking. It was all good character development, but it didn't stop the Duchess from getting on my nerves.

Hearing about Trade problems is growing a bit tiresome as well. Perhaps this is all leading up to a grand finale in which the corporate entities are all publically revealed to be in league with the CIS...but I doubt it. Again, I really enjoy hearing about this kind of stuff, but in moderation...

On the plus side, I liked hearing the Commerce Guild and Corporate Alliance mentioned.

The more I consider it, the more I think the CW creators could really be onto something with this Satine-the-arson business. Especially if Almec might end up being a traitor just like Tal Merrick, and she's got an entire moon of enemies Watching her right above her head. Satine might have the best interests of her planet at heart, but in order to stave off all these traitors and stick by what she believes in, she might end up being corrupted in a completely different manner.

Finally! someone seems to grasp IT!

Barriss_Coffee said:

Although the show thus far seems pretty set in drawing the definitive line between good and evil, so I doubt it will go that far.

I think it will since SW has crossed that bridge before.

GARTH_MAUL said:

No one else agrees with me that Satine burned the warehouse because she couldn't otherwise be sure the poison wouldn't be used again?

I hadn't thought of that but it makes sense and amplifies what I stated before:

Lady_Skywalker87 said:

rumblewagon said:

?Why burn a warehouse if you just destroy evidence? Is Satine embarrassed that this happened and wants to remove any remnant of it?

Perhaps, but I believes she's worried about Mandalore loosing its Neutrality to corrupt Neutrality and/or brought into the war by force if she keeps the evidence until able to get the root of the situation which so many at her board seemed to have the disposition for, but at the same time Satine is risking being labeled a corrupt by someone and use it to achieve those exact means.

rumblewagon said:

The preview for the next episode shows Satine with Ahsoka as Ahsoka is tossing people into walls... This implies that Ahsoka is protecting Satine from someone(s).

My guess that Ashoka will be charged with the investigation and her alibi will be training (police?) Cadets.

These are just a few observations as to why Episode 305 is a great example of complex story telling and character development. It has no need to use long space combat engagements or Lightsaber duels, nor world conquering plots. It?s a rather jarring glimpse into how a government, no matter how noble, can be eroded from within and how those who attempt to preserve that Nobility (namely, the Duchess Satine) can find themselves slowly eroded by the helpless nature of a never ending uphill battle that effects little if any change.

Yes and I read your rewrite of the story, it just thats not what was presented onscreen. What your presenting is a hypothetical, reading an aweful lot into the episode that really I don't see there what so-ever.

As to the claim that you were not trying to be rude..........your statements speak for themsleves.

DarthJoe said:

The most common complaint about ?Corruption? was that it was boring. Why? Because it featured something which occurs everyday in the real world?

Yes, everyday President Obama and various dignitaries from other nations are teaming up to creep around in alleys and engaging in combat to fight crime...........

Time will tell but I'd be very surprised if the title of this episode ends up having anything to with Satine. I think thats just wishful thinking.

-Yes, and I read your ?rewrite of the story?, it?s just that?s not what was presented on-screen. What your presenting is a hypothetical, reading an awful lot into the episode that really I don?t see what so-ever-

Oh, yes, look at that. I love how, in your previous post, you flat out told me that my stance was that everyone was wrong and that I was right concerning my views on ?Corruption? despite the fact that no where in any of my posts did I say anything even remotely along those lines. I expressed dissapointment that others could not see the merits of the episode. Nothing more.

However, now, your response here is that my initial post and all the aforementioned merits I discussed do not exist or are in my head, they are not however actually *in* the Episode. So, essentially, how *you* see the episode is correct, while my view and the views of others who see positive aspects of both the character and story is wrong. Do I have that about right?

Also, how is my expressing dissapointment that others could not see ?Corruption? as a great episode, with some preferring action over story, ?being rude??

-Yes, everyday President Obama and various dignitaries from other nations are teaming up to creep around in alleys and engaging in combat to fight crime...........-

Nice. I love how you used my observation completely out of context to build the above response. If anyone even takes a moment to read my initial post, it?s clear that when I said ?the kind of things which happen everyday,? it continues and specifically mentions criminals and those who support them getting away with putting innocent lives in danger for the sake of profit. No where do I indicate I?m speaking of Satine and Padme?s clandestine sojourn in that regard.

Also, using President Obama as an example is a poor choice to make your ?argument.? He?s a good man, and a decent enough Politician; however, he is no Padme Amidala or Duchess Satine. So, of course one could not imagine him conducting nightly raids against terrorist cells or criminal rings. If he lived in the Star Wars Universe, perhaps. You forget that where-as Star Wars takes some inspiration from events in the real world, past or present, their Heroic Characters are often larger then life and as such can not, and should not, be placed alongside men and women who serve in government who must deal with restrictions the Heroes of the Star Wars Saga can almost always get around.

In closing, if you feel you must disagree with me so vehemently, so be it. That is the purpose of a Forum, no? However, I only ask that if you choose to do so, you do so intelligently(i.e. not quoting me out of context), and at l

Exactly. I'm not saying it's logical, but it's consistent with Satine's headspace in Corruption.
Theoretically a corrupt police officer could find some way to use the evidence to make Mandalore more corrupt.

"Yahyahyahyahyahyahyah Yessssssss! I vill use ze poisoned tea to show zat Zatine cannot control her government and ze peeple vill demand that Death Watch take over to keep zem safe! Yahyahyahyahyahyah!"

Rumble, you're a troll. A funny one, I will give you that, but a troll nonetheless.

GM, to me the whole burning down the evidence thing came across as a totally irrational decision on Satine's part. She's just out of it, feeling like things are slipping through her hands, so she's emotionally jumping to desperate measures. I think she's sort of 'falling to the dark side', so to speak. She has good intentions, but you know what they say about the road to hell.

I think BC may be on to something... I could see how this could escalate into a situation where she's forced to choose between joining the republic, or staying neutral and rearm Mandalore to fight Death Watch herself.

Hell, it would be amazing if she'd eventually find herself at odds with Obi-Wan...

Also, how is my expressing dissapointment that others could not see ?Corruption? as a great episode, with some preferring action over story, ?being rude??

Well, I know for sure that outright personal flames are forbidden...I'm not so sure about more general statements. In any case, BOTH sides of the argument have taken that sort of stance before...you know...'how the heck can you like/dislike this episode'. XD

DarthJoe92316 said:

In closing, if you feel you must disagree with me so vehemently, so be it. That is the purpose of a Forum, no? However, I only ask that if you choose to do so, you do so intelligently(i.e. not quoting me out of context), and at least with a modicum of civility. Despite our dissagrements, we all love The Saga to one extent or another, and should be able to conduct ourselves with some level of professionalism. I might be new to these boards, but I would like to assume we do not stoop to the level of childish comments and open hostilities as, say, Trekkies.

I heard the live action series is supposed to have no main characters, no Jedi and no lightsabers. So I imagined this episode with live action actors and asked myself if I'd watch it each week. The answer would be no.

Problem in this episode was not lack of a jedi- this has nothing to do with liveactionseries- writers are different so I am expecting much from that liveaction show... if it will come... in the future

Emperor_Gunray said:

I didn't care for that at all, I'm afraid. I'm a guy who loves the political episodes of CW, but I just found this to be very dull. Perhaps if it had included more interesting characters I would have enjoyed it more, heck, even a holographic Obi Wan cameo would have livened things up.

I thought Satine came across as obnoxious and arrogant, belittling everyone who didn't agree with her. Maybe this was the point, but I really enjoyed her character last year, and thought she was probably the best new character in CW. This time, I just found her annoying, and couldn't wait for her to stop talking. It was all good character development, but it didn't stop the Duchess from getting on my nerves.

Hearing about Trade problems is growing a bit tiresome as well. Perhaps this is all leading up to a grand finale in which the corporate entities are all publically revealed to be in league with the CIS...but I doubt it. Again, I really enjoy hearing about this kind of stuff, but in moderation...

On the plus side, I liked hearing the Commerce Guild and Corporate Alliance mentioned.

Satine was pretty irritating from the very beginning- when Obi-Wan pointed out that Death Watch may have been allied with CIS- Satine said "I disagree" LOL- like her opinion would change the facts- she is arrogant- and that will be her downfall- i'm pretty sure she is one of the characters who will die in this series. Oh- i really want to see episode with Lott Dod's true loyalities finally revealed- he could suddenly draw a pistol in the middle of political debate and take some senator to be his hostage or something- would be cool episode

I was surprised that I actually ended up enjoying this episode, after being rather underwhelmed last week and having some reservations the week before. It didn't ever get to "Supply Lines" level of quality, which itself was a very flawed episode, but I still had a good time watching it, even if it had a number of its own oddities and inconsistencies. It seemed like the creators tried to lampshade a couple of the perceived problems, too. Satine and Padme just happen to arrive at this hospital while it's in crisis and for some reason this is the first Satine is hearing about it. Yet we have a character note that he was going to report it to her. Later, further into their adventure, Padme and Satine share a moment noting how they enjoy getting away from the usual political court, as if trying to justify all of us wondering why a galactic senator and ruler of an entire planet are performing a sting operation. It's a nice attempt, but it's still really weird. They're working with her guards since she trusts them, but does she really not trust any other security personnel to the extent that she doesn't want any of them there with her? She doesn't have any problem discussing things with the school officials, and we find out one of them is in on it!

The interesting thing is, we know that the guys behind the operation, or at least those working on Mandalore, don't really have any ill intentions other than making some more money. They're not overly concerned about getting the mixture wrong, but they do note it, probably because avoiding this situation lets them make more of the drink and therefore more credits. It's not really in their interests for things to go wrong and at least on the parts of these middle men, the lethal combination didn't seem intentional.

Something else that's almost laughable is the fact that these Mandalorians are such pacifists that only the dock security captain has a blaster to this raid. It's strange to see him single-handedly trying to take the thugs down from a distance only to get shot for his troubles. What is kind of cool is seeing the guards' tactics and realizing, as we saw in "Voyage of Temptation", that they're well trained in turning the situation to their advantage and using those staffs of theirs to disarm blaster-wielding opponents. One has to wonder, though, if they ever have to bring their own blasters for special operations. Still, in spite of all of the head scratching and eye rolling moments, I did like it quite a bit. Certainly more than, say, "Mystery of 1,000 Moons" or "Senate Murders".

WedgeWalker said:

-There were times when our heroes figured things out that, if other folks were competent, they should have figured out beforehand. (For example, that the kids might be poisoned by the drinks from outside. Or that they should use that crate as cover during the raid.)

Wasn't it the guards who went for the barricade?

WedgeWalker said:

-The show has amazing voice actors. But you can only reuse any one of them so many times in so many bit parts per episode before it gets distracting...at least to someone who pays a lot of attention to the voices. This episode highlights that issue.

Seriously. It's a little strange when half of the characters sound like variations of clones or Yularen. Kind of like watching South Park or Family Guy.

I think it might be somewhat refreshing if it is just people trying to make a bit more cash. We'll see next episode, I suppose.

Tordelback said:

-I also don't get people's objections to Padme and Satine getting their hands dirty - this is a fantasy adventure show, do we really want to watch our main characters let their people suffer and die while they discuss it in a committee? After all, this is Padme "I've decided to go back to Naboo" Amidala here, her that was running around the backstreets of Mos Espa in mufti, rushing off to rescue Master Kenobi and dealing admirably with a Nexu while chai

I'm new to the boards, not sure how much of this has been discussed but the Clone Wars Mandalore Homeworld is NOT at all like it is explained in any of the Novels.

I enjoy reading the Star Wars novels but is Lucas discounting them all together? The novels explain quit clearly that there is no Mandalorian Leader except during a crisis (War, planetary devastation, etc). The depiction of the Duchess of Mandalore as the planets leader seems way off the mark. Where is her Mando armour? Her Martial Skills? Her Weapon Skills? The planet looks far more prosperous then it is depicted in the novels and for more populated.

This isn't about whether all Mando's are blond. This is a change as big as turning Corusucant into a jungle planet. If Lucas's official position is to blatantly disregard the EU then he is stepping on the very material that has made Star Wars as Epic as it has become. The original three movies are epic, the following three movies were lacking but it is the EU which has spawned the MASSIVE following that it has. Without it I don't think Star Wars would have any where near the kind of following it has.

Here is a great theory (even better than Ahsoka's lesbian romance theory- ummm.. let's forget that one) Satine is not real Satine anymore- but Darth Sidious changed her to shapeshifter or humanreplicadroid or clone -whose purpose is to lead Mandalore to turmoil with odd decisions- this is of course revealed much later in the series

This isn't about whether all Mando's are blond. This is a change as big as turning Corusucant into a jungle planet. If Lucas's official position is to blatantly disregard the EU then he is stepping on the very material that has made Star Wars as Epic as it has become. The original three movies are epic, the following three movies were lacking but it is the EU which has spawned the MASSIVE following that it has. Without it I don't think Star Wars would have any where near the kind of following it has.

I think that is very debatable. I would guess that most who saw the prequels have hardly if at all encountered the EU.

I'm new to the boards, not sure how much of this has been discussed but the Clone Wars Mandalore Homeworld is NOT at all like it is explained in any of the Novels.

I enjoy reading the Star Wars novels but is Lucas discounting them all together? The novels explain quit clearly that there is no Mandalorian Leader except during a crisis (War, planetary devastation, etc). The depiction of the Duchess of Mandalore as the planets leader seems way off the mark. Where is her Mando armour? Her Martial Skills? Her Weapon Skills? The planet looks far more prosperous then it is depicted in the novels and for more populated.

This isn't about whether all Mando's are blond. This is a change as big as turning Corusucant into a jungle planet. If Lucas's official position is to blatantly disregard the EU then he is stepping on the very material that has made Star Wars as Epic as it has become. The original three movies are epic, the following three movies were lacking but it is the EU which has spawned the MASSIVE following that it has. Without it I don't think Star Wars would have any where near the kind of following it has.

That has been discussed everywhere since George Lucas created his Mandalore- originally name Mandalore was created by Lucas to be homeworld of the badass commandos like Fett's but he never told what kind of planet it was- EU-writers created it to their novels- but then Lucas decided that he wants it to appear in his series- and he wanted it to be like this-

and i'm -frankly- more pleased with this Mandalore than old boring EU-one- too bad that EU-creators didn't know that Lucas is going to use that planet himself. Old EU-mandalore could be retconned to be that Mandalore before the Civil war- duchess and all that are New Mandalorian's stuff and there was no "New Mandalorians" before the civil war- Obi-Wan points it out that planet looks more prosperous than before. And TCW points out that Mandalorian culture was originally -as it was depicted in EU- warriorcentered.

This isn't about whether all Mando's are blond. This is a change as big as turning Corusucant into a jungle planet. If Lucas's official position is to blatantly disregard the EU then he is stepping on the very material that has made Star Wars as Epic as it has become. The original three movies are epic, the following three movies were lacking but it is the EU which has spawned the MASSIVE following that it has. Without it I don't think Star Wars would have any where near the kind of following it has.

I think that is very debatable. I would guess that most who saw the prequels have hardly if at all encountered the EU.

Ummmm.... that's not true- many became fans of EU and whole SW after seeing the prequels- I did- i still like originals bit more- still ep3 is best... then ep6 and then ep5- but OT has better acting in it and they are classics anyway.

I enjoy reading the Star Wars novels but is Lucas discounting them all together? The novels explain quit clearly that there is no Mandalorian Leader except during a crisis (War, planetary devastation, etc). The depiction of the Duchess of Mandalore as the planets leader seems way off the mark. Where is her Mando armour? Her Martial Skills? Her Weapon Skills? The planet looks far more prosperous then it is depicted in the novels and for more populated.

Welcome to Karen Traviss's world...errr...former world...or world she thought she knew.

I think that there is where the true problem is, defining the Star Wars "Fan".

I think fans exist in different combinations (all having seen all 6 movies)

1: Watched all the TV series

2: Watched the Animated movies

3: Read many/most/all the Star Wars novels.

How much content will "most" Star Wars fans have read/watched? From the Fan who has seen all the movies, to the fans who can recite the number over the door to the trash compactor room, to the fans who go to conventions dressed as Jedi/Sith/Bounty Hunter/Smuggler?

Is the majority of the fan base just because of the 6 movies? or is the EU (books, comic books, etc) the source of the fan base? I myself believe that the more "dedicated" Star Wars fans are because of the EU. I've had friends ask me questions regarding the continuity between the episode 4-6 and Episodes 1-3 and when I see things like these Clone Wars episodes that what I thought I knew and believed can't be trusted anymore.

My Wife has seen all the movies and has never shown anymore interest, never read any of the novels or watched anything animated but she will call herself a fan. Who knows ....

Totally interrupting the flow of the conversation here, but I meant to say in my earlier post that I LOVED the smuggler's ship with it's little crab-like legs that scuttle forward as it lands. Really awesome design and animation on that thing.

Really? I thought that was one of the lowsiest ship designs in the series. When flying it looks like a house careening through space, and what's the point of the ship scuttling forward a bit when landing? It just reeks of doing something odd for oddness sake.