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Topic: Prophecy (Read 317453 times)

Reformer, Jesus puts together a whole constellation of things that must occur, not just one thing. This is substantiated by all the prophets. You don't want to hear about partial fulfillment or double prophecy, then you prove to me that the whole contellation happened in 70ad, because I think it is obvious even to the casual observer that it did not.

Consider how the days of creation were evening and morning. It wasn't until sometime during the evening and morning of the 6th period that the Image of God was made, male and female. The evening of the 6th day was before the time of brightness. There is no record of an evening between the emergence of the Image of God and the 7th day of rest, the time after the finishing of God's works, corresponding perhaps to the Millennial Age.

Yet the dipSINsationalists preach the worst and darkest night ever known is right before the Millennium. Then, they say, the devil will take over. They also miss the truth that God deserves and will have a victorious people upon whom His name is written. God will rise up as in the days He delivered His people from Egypt. He will restore His great name in the eyes of the nations, much as He did in days of yore.

In these days The Messiah has distributed Himself into billions of people living all over the Earth through whom He is present and breathing. Out of our mouths, each of which is His mouth, there proceeds a sword of the Spirit, the Word of God.

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I went to church; but, the Church wasn't on the program! JESUS WANTS HIS BODY BACK!! MEET WITHOUT HUMAN HEADSHIP!!!

Yet the dipSINsationalists preach the worst and darkest night ever known is right before the Millennium. Then, they say, the devil will take over. They also miss the truth that God deserves and will have a victorious people upon whom His name is written. God will rise up as in the days He delivered His people from Egypt. He will restore His great name in the eyes of the nations, much as He did in days of yore.

Jesus is the one saying the worst and darkest night ever known is right before the Millenium.

The prophets say the same thing.

Am I missing something here?

21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.

--Mat 24

It's Satan's [second to last] stand, Reformer. Satan will be giving it his best shot. You don't think that will be dark days?

And, yes, Jesus will rise up--he talks about the anger rising up in his face--and he will avenge and restore his people as he did in the days of yore.

Then the nations will know that I am the LORD who sanctifies Israel, when my sanctuary is in their midst forevermore." Eze 37:28

I don't remember reading they cooked and ate their own children since the days of the destruction of Jerusalem and the Temple. It happened. There's much more, like the killing of the priests for sport in the days leading up to Jerusalem's siege by the very mercenaries they hired to stabilize the breakdown of their society. This was not the world. This was God's Church. They went nuts, robbing, mutilating, killing...They'd've all died except God shortened the time. Read Josephus' account. There's no stretch in understanding all 7 signs, which must occur together, have already happened.

When you quote something (Mt 24) that has already happened 2,000 years ago as proof it's supposed to happen again in our future, something largely a made up theory about our future which is without unambiguous Scripture support, surely you can understand why I am justified in my skepticism. All the more because I see another scenario for the "end times." Though there may be some parallels, "The Rapture Doctrine" is in many ways opposite to "The Manifestation of the Sons of God."

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I went to church; but, the Church wasn't on the program! JESUS WANTS HIS BODY BACK!! MEET WITHOUT HUMAN HEADSHIP!!!

I don't remember reading they cooked and ate their own children since the days of the destruction of Jerusalem and the Temple. It happened. There's much more, like the killing of the priests for sport in the days leading up to Jerusalem's siege by the very mercenaries they hired to stabilize the breakdown of their society. This was not the world. This was God's Church. They went nuts, robbing, mutilating, killing...They'd've all died except God shortened the time. Read Josephus' account. There's no stretch in understanding all 7 signs, which must occur together, have already happened.

When you quote something (Mt 24) that has already happened 2,000 years ago as proof it's supposed to happen again in our future, something largely a made up theory about our future which is without unambiguous Scripture support, surely you can understand why I am justified in my skepticism. All the more because I see another scenario for the "end times." Though there may be some parallels, "The Rapture Doctrine" is in many ways opposite to "The Manifestation of the Sons of God."

This thread is 58 pages long. You think I've just been repeating Mat 24? There is a ton of prophecy all over the Bible about the end of the age. You've made up your mind, and you are somehow justifying that whatever happened in 70ad is worse than anything that has happened since--because it would have to be, this is what Jesus tells us--the worse thing that will ever happen is going to happen one time and never again will anything that bad happen--wow--I can think of things in my lifetime alone that were much much worse than anything you can come up with for 70ad.

"When you see Jerusalem being surrounded by armies, you will know that its desolation is near. Luke 21:20

Who can't see Jerusalem surrounded with armies culminating in its destruction in 70 AD? What does historical fact mean? I find it difficult to reconcile what studying the subject of fulfilled prophecy reveals about Mt 24 and the people I assume are followers of the Lord who seem unable to recognize facts, or not be deterred by them. Don't roll out the "double fulfillment" slight of hand. Jesus indicated otherwise in what he said there with no hint of it all happening again.

In Luke 21:20, Jesus likely alludes to Zechariah's prophecies.

Zechariah 12:3And in that day will I make Jerusalem a burdensome stone for all people: all that burden themselves with it shall be cut in pieces, though all the people of the earth be gathered together against it.

This could hardly apply to 70 A.D. as the "invaders," the Roman armies, were not "cut in pieces." The burdensome stone must be the heavenly Jerusalem, not the earthly one. See Daniel 2:35, where Christ's kingdom is represented by a "stone cut out without hands."

Zechariah 14:3Then shall the Lord go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle.

This could not apply to the events of 70 A.D. either. Jesus did not fight against the Romans, or send awful plagues on them, and on their horses, mules, asses, and camels. Neither did these armies fight against each other.

Zechariah 14:13And it shall come to pass in that day, that a great tumult from the Lord shall be among them; and they shall lay hold every one on the hand of his neighbour, and his hand shall rise up against the hand of his neighbour.

On the other hand these prophecies do not apply to armies in the modern era. Horses, mules, asses, and camels would not be employed in any modern invasion of Palestine. They are very vulnerable to modern weapons. And what would be the point of "all the people of the earth" gathering against the earthly Jerusalem? Think of the problems involved in feeding them, and the sanitation problems it would cause--water is already scarce in that country.

Aside from all this, there is the question of the mount of Olives, being cleaved in the midst, and half of it moving north, and half of it moving south. This did not happen in 70 A.D. The dispensationalists say it will happen when Jesus returns. But what would be the point?

I suggest that one of the reasons for prophecy, is to reveal how Jesus is reigning, and fulfilling all the things that he foretold, and has been doing so since he ascended to heaven in the first century. This is partly what is meant by his feet standing upon the mount of Olives. The things he foretold in the Olivet Discourse outline the future, from that time to the present.

The Jerusalem to which the prophecies apply (including Luke 21:20) is not the earthly city, but the heavenly one, the church. The invasion he spoke of was already evident in the time of the apostles. "Gentiles" have trampled the holy city in all ages of the church. Paul said, "For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places." [Eph. 6:12]

Christ fights against those who come against his holy city, by smiting his enemies with spiritual plagues. "In that day, saith the Lord, I will smite every horse with astonishment, and his rider with madness: and I will open mine eyes upon the house of Judah, and will smite every horse of the people with blindness." [Zech. 12:4]

"Madness" and "blindness" alludes to plagues of a spiritual kind. Those who mistake the Jerusalem of prophecy for the earthly city, are examples of this blindness; they don't "see" or understand that Isa. 2:2 was fulfilled, when Jesus ascended to heaven, and to the throne of his Father, and since then, the Jerusalem to which prophecy applies is the heavenly one. The apostles understood this. When Peter said Jesus had been "made Christ," he knew that this meant that Jesus had received an eternal throne, the throne of David, and it meant ruling over the 12 tribes of Israel from Jerusalem. All that was implied by saying he had been "made Christ." And those Jews who did not believe in him were cut off from Israel, and from the promises. [Acts 3:23] Paul said they were branches broken off their tree. [Rom. 11:17] Both preterists and dispensationalists are blind to this.

Horses in Zechariah's prophecy probably mean people with no understanding. [Psa. 32:9] When Saul was travelling to Damascus to attack the church, Christ spoke to him from heaven and said to him, "I am Jesus whom thou persecutest: it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks." [Acts 9:5] He implied that Saul was behaving like a horse or a mule. He was made blind for three days. There is an obvious fulfilment of Zech. 12:4 here. The "horses" in Zechariah's prophecy are not literal horses. The "Jerusalem" is not the earthly city. Christ fought to defend his saints, the heavenly Jerusalem.

But in 70 A.D. Jesus did not fight to defend the Jews in the earthly Jerusalem. The New Testament shows that "Jerusalem" is the heavenly city where Christ is king.

Preterism and dispensationalism deny that the Olivet Discourse in Matt. 24-25 applies to the church in the present age. They misinterpret the Jerusalem to which prophecy applies. Both say it applies to the earthly city. They deny that prophecy, for the most part, applies to the church in the present age. They remove it to either the past, or the future. But that is obviously a distorted, biased position. They apply the prophecies that apply to the saints to ethnic Jews who deny that Jesus is the Christ.

IMO, Zechariah's prophecy in Zech. 14:4 depicts those flawed interpretations as the two halves of the mount of Olives moving apart in opposite directions. Preterism, perhaps, is the half that moves north, and dispensationalism is the half that is displaced to the south, and there is a valley between, which represents the present age.

Zechariah said, flee to the "valley of the mountains," an invisible valley between the two displaced portions of the mountain. The phrase "valley of the mountains" seems to conflate a valley with mountains. Mountains represent promises, and a great promise is given to those who follow Zechariah's advice, and abandon preterism and dispensationalism: "the Lord my God shall come, and all the saints with thee." The valley between the two displaced sections of the mount of Olives is a place where Christians are brought together in unity. They are united with Christ, and not among his enemies.

Zechariah 14:4-5 points to a middle course, between those two extremes: apply the Olivet Discourse to the present age, not Jews in the first century, and not to Jews in a future seven year tribulation.

Zechariah 14:6-7And it shall come to pass in that day, that the light shall not be clear, nor dark:But it shall be one day which shall be known to the Lord, not day, nor night: but it shall come to pass, that at evening time it shall be light.

The spiritual gloominess and darkness described in these verses is characteristic of the present age.

Zechariah 14:8-9And it shall be in that day, that living waters shall go out from Jerusalem; half of them toward the former sea, and half of them toward the hinder sea: in summer and in winter shall it be.And the Lord shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one Lord, and his name one.

The living waters of the gospel flow from the heavenly Jerusalem, the church. Jesus reigns as king over his saints, on the throne of David, and he also rules over all things in heaven and earth. He said, "All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth." [Matt. 28:18] The Jerusalem where he reigns is in heaven. Paul said those who believe in Christ are raised up together, and "sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus." [Eph. 2:6]

When Jesus ascended to heaven, and to the throne of his Father, Jerusalem was raised up, and was "established in the top of the mountains," and was "exalted above the hills" as foretold in Isa. 2:2. That is when it became the heavenly city, the Jerusalem above. [Gal. 4:26]

The earthly Jerusalem was identified with Hagar the bondwoman who was cast out. [Gal. 4:26, 30] After Jesus ascended to heaven, prophecies about Jerusalem apply to the heavenly city, where Christ is king. So in Zechariah 14:16, the nations who come up to Jerusalem to worship Christ have to come to the heavenly city, not the earthly one.

Zechariah 14:16And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the Lord of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles.

This is also what Jesus said in John 4:21-23. People will no longer go to the earthly city, but will worship God in spirit and in truth.

The feast of tabernacles has a spiritual significance, and pictures God dwelling with man as the tabernacle of God was with the Israelites in the wilderness. This prophecy also applies in the present age.

Zechariah 14:17-18And it shall be, that whoso will not come up of all the families of the earth unto Jerusalem to worship the King, the Lord of hosts, even upon them shall be no rain.And if the family of Egypt go not up, and come not, that have no rain; there shall be the plague, wherewith the Lord will smite the heathen that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.

Egypt normally has very little rain. Taken literally, it would be quite meaningless, to say Egypt would have no rain. This is speaking of rain in a metaphorical sense; it represents God's word. [Isa. 55:10-11]

Consider how the days of creation were evening and morning. It wasn't until sometime during the evening and morning of the 6th period that the Image of God was made, male and female. The evening of the 6th day was before the time of brightness. There is no record of an evening between the emergence of the Image of God and the 7th day of rest, the time after the finishing of God's works, corresponding perhaps to the Millennial Age.

Yet the dipSINsationalists preach the worst and darkest night ever known is right before the Millennium. Then, they say, the devil will take over. They also miss the truth that God deserves and will have a victorious people upon whom His name is written. God will rise up as in the days He delivered His people from Egypt. He will restore His great name in the eyes of the nations, much as He did in days of yore.

In these days The Messiah has distributed Himself into billions of people living all over the Earth through whom He is present and breathing. Out of our mouths, each of which is His mouth, there proceeds a sword of the Spirit, the Word of God.

Hi reFORMer,

Am very interested in what you are saying. I am curious as to how you see the time frame from here on? Do you believe that Jesus will return in the future? If not what will happen as far as the resurrection, will there be one? If not, will everything continue as it is without end?

I do believe that a lot of prophecy has been fulfilled. I use to didn't see things as I do now. I thought most of prophecy was still in the future but have changed my mind.

I believe in Matt. 24 Jesus was addressing the generation at that time and not far into the future. I think he would have said "that generation" not "this generation" if he had been talking about the future.

CHB

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Doug

Luke 2120 And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh.21 Then let them which are in Judaea flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto.22 For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled.

Which Jerusalem is meant? Perhaps the destruction of the earthly city was a sign for the saints; those events signified that the spiritual desolation of the heavenly city was near. The apostle John said that there were already "many antichrists."

1 John 2:18Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.

In Daniel, the time when the abomination of desolation is set up, is related to the time when the daily sacrifice is taken away, which was one of the effects of the destruction of Jerusalem and the temple in 70 A.D. "And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days." [Dan. 12:11]

The thousand two hundred and ninety days are not literal days, but it is a figure representing the remaining time of the church, after the abomination of desolation is set up. The desolation of the heavenly Jerusalem is spiritual, and is due to the proliferation of false teachers, as Peter foretold in 2 Peter 2. It has continued since the time of the apostles, though unrecognized by most.

Doug

Here is a chart showing how the various numbers in Daniel and Revelation relate to the age of the church. The 1,290 is intermediate between the 1,335 days, and 1,260 days. It marks the abomination of desolation being set up. The 1,260 days extends from the writing of Revelation, probably about 95 A.D., and the completion of the canon of the NT, and the beginning of the ministry of the two witnesses, and the time the woman is nourished in the wilderness.

Doug

So--when the real Jerusalem on earth is invaded --it will mean nothing to you folks, right?

Revelation 1210 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.

Those who dwell in heaven are told to rejoice. But there is "woe" for them that dwell in the earth and in the sea!

So--when the real Jerusalem on earth is invaded --it will mean nothing to you folks, right?

Revelation 1210 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.

Those who dwell in heaven are told to rejoice. But there is "woe" for them that dwell in the earth and in the sea!

Doug

And, what do you think that is supposed to mean, practically speaking?

Because I'm talking about a real event. I'm not sure what you are talking about.

If I'm dead and in heaven, I will be happy?

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truthquest

I was watching a couple of Reuters news videos. These videos showed a protest in Egypt against the regime there where Christians were protecting Muslims who were praying and then the Muslims were protecting the Christians from the pro-regime vigilantes. In another news video, a Muslim came to the aide of three Jewish subway riders who were attacked by a group of people who were also calling them names. I doubt very much that a Muslim would risk his life that way if he hates Jews. There are so many stories like this. But we just don't hear about them.

Speech of Ahmedinijad [Iran] to the UN in New York today. The US and Israel left the room. Those who have been paying attention to this thread will understand what and who he is talking about. The rest, not so much.

"There is no doubt that the world is in need of a New Order and a fresh way of thinking, an order in which man is recognized as God's supreme creature...."

He goes on to describe a wonderful world of peace and justice and equality.

"Ladies and Gentlemen, Is it possible to have such an order...?"

He tells us how to achieve this order.

He wants to restructure the United Nations.

AND ARE YOU READY FOR IT?

"God has promised us a man of kindness, a man who loves people, who loves absolute justice, a man who is a perfect human being and his name [ ...] Mahdi a man who will come in the company of Jesus Christ and the righteous. He will lead humanity into achieving its glorious and eternal ideals. The arrival of the ultimate Savior [Mahdi] will mark a new beginning, a rebirth, and a resurrection. It will be the beginning of peace, lasting security, and genuine life. His arrival will be the end of oppression, immorality, poverty, and discrimination, and the beginning of justice, love, and empathy. He will come and he will cut through ignorance, superstition, prejudice, by opening the gates of science and knowledge. He will establish a world brimfull of prudence and he will prepare the ground for the collective, active and constructive participation of all in the global management. He will come to grant kindness, hope, freedom, and dignity to all humanity as a gift. He will come so mankind will taste the pleasure of being human and being in the company of other humans. He will come so that hands will be joined, hearts will be filled with love, and thoughts will be purified to be at the service of security, welfare, happiness, well-being, and peace for all. He will come to return all children of Adam ... linking them to eternal happiness and joy.

The arrival of the Ultimate Savior [Mahdi], Jesus Christ and the Righteous, will bring about an eternally bright future for mankind, not by force or waging wars, but through thought ..and developing kindness in everyone. Their arrival will breed a new life in the cold and frozen hearts and body of the world. He will bless humanity with a spring that puts an end to our winter of ignorance, poverty, and war...He puts an end to the winter of ignorance for humanity

Now we can see and we can sense the sweet scent and soulful breeze of the spring, a spring that has just begun and doesn't belong to a specific race, ethnicity, nation, or region, a spring that will soon reach all the territories in Asia, Europe, Africa, and America. He will be the spring of all the justice seekers, freedom lovers, and followers of heavenly thinkers, the spring of humanity and the greenery of all ages. Let us join hands and clear the way for his eventual arrival ...in harmony and unity. Let us march on this path to salvation....Long live this spring!"

I was watching a couple of Reuters news videos. These videos showed a protest in Egypt against the regime there where Christians were protecting Muslims who were praying and then the Muslims were protecting the Christians from the pro-regime vigilantes. In another news video, a Muslim came to the aide of three Jewish subway riders who were attacked by a group of people who were also calling them names. I doubt very much that a Muslim would risk his life that way if he hates Jews. There are so many stories like this. But we just don't hear about them.

So what? You think a few good people of all races, creeds, and faiths are going to change the beast system spoken of in Revelation? Do you understand that Christians and Jews are Dhimmi's in muslim nations? That is, Slaves, second class citizens. Do you want to go live in the middle east as a Christian and be a slave and at the whim and mercy of Allah, a god who resembles satan in every way?

Have you watched the videos I have posted on here to educate yourself about this system? I watch all your videos. Will you return the favor? [Of course, yours tend to be more pleasant, but even so...]

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truthquest

I was watching a couple of Reuters news videos. These videos showed a protest in Egypt against the regime there where Christians were protecting Muslims who were praying and then the Muslims were protecting the Christians from the pro-regime vigilantes. In another news video, a Muslim came to the aide of three Jewish subway riders who were attacked by a group of people who were also calling them names. I doubt very much that a Muslim would risk his life that way if he hates Jews. There are so many stories like this. But we just don't hear about them.

So what? You think a few good people of all races, creeds, and faiths are going to change the beast system spoken of in Revelation? Do you understand that Christians and Jews are Dhimmi's in muslim nations? That is, Slaves, second class citizens. Do you want to go live in the middle east as a Christian and be a slave and at the whim and mercy of Allah, a god who resembles satan in every way?

Have you watched the videos I have posted on here to educate yourself about this system? I watch all your videos. Will you return the favor? [Of course, yours tend to be more pleasant, but even so...]

Why would God tell us about the Antichrist, the Beast, the False Prophet, the Harlot and so forth, if he didn't want us to understand what is happening when we see it with our own eyes unfolding in the world?

I was watching a couple of Reuters news videos. These videos showed a protest in Egypt against the regime there where Christians were protecting Muslims who were praying and then the Muslims were protecting the Christians from the pro-regime vigilantes. In another news video, a Muslim came to the aide of three Jewish subway riders who were attacked by a group of people who were also calling them names. I doubt very much that a Muslim would risk his life that way if he hates Jews. There are so many stories like this. But we just don't hear about them.

So what? You think a few good people of all races, creeds, and faiths are going to change the beast system spoken of in Revelation? Do you understand that Christians and Jews are Dhimmi's in muslim nations? That is, Slaves, second class citizens. Do you want to go live in the middle east as a Christian and be a slave and at the whim and mercy of Allah, a god who resembles satan in every way?

Have you watched the videos I have posted on here to educate yourself about this system? I watch all your videos. Will you return the favor? [Of course, yours tend to be more pleasant, but even so...]

The point is all Muslims are not the same. All Muslims do not hate.

But their religion, the book they read, the god they follow, the Koran and the Hadith tells them to lie to, cheat, steal from, and to kill Christians and Jews.

So they are either following their religion or not.

If we follow Jesus Christ, do we only follow some of his teachings and discard the rest?

So--when the real Jerusalem on earth is invaded --it will mean nothing to you folks, right?

Revelation 1210 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.

Those who dwell in heaven are told to rejoice. But there is "woe" for them that dwell in the earth and in the sea!

Doug

And, what do you think that is supposed to mean, practically speaking?

Because I'm talking about a real event. I'm not sure what you are talking about.

If I'm dead and in heaven, I will be happy?

To those that dwell in the earth, the earthly Jerusalem is "real," the heavenly one is not. The earthly country called "Israel" is the "real" one, the Israel of God is not. TV news announcers, newspaper reporters, politicians recognize only the earthly things. John said that dragon "that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan," "deceiveth the whole world."

Those that dwell in heaven are those who are "in Christ," who teaches us that the earthly Jerusalem and its temple were among the things called "an example and shadow of heavenly things." [Heb. 8:5]

I was watching a couple of Reuters news videos. These videos showed a protest in Egypt against the regime there where Christians were protecting Muslims who were praying and then the Muslims were protecting the Christians from the pro-regime vigilantes. In another news video, a Muslim came to the aide of three Jewish subway riders who were attacked by a group of people who were also calling them names. I doubt very much that a Muslim would risk his life that way if he hates Jews. There are so many stories like this. But we just don't hear about them.

So what? You think a few good people of all races, creeds, and faiths are going to change the beast system spoken of in Revelation? Do you understand that Christians and Jews are Dhimmi's in muslim nations? That is, Slaves, second class citizens. Do you want to go live in the middle east as a Christian and be a slave and at the whim and mercy of Allah, a god who resembles satan in every way?

Have you watched the videos I have posted on here to educate yourself about this system? I watch all your videos. Will you return the favor? [Of course, yours tend to be more pleasant, but even so...]

The point is all Muslims are not the same. All Muslims do not hate.

But their religion, the book they read, the god they follow, the Koran and the Hadith tells them to lie to, cheat, steal from, and to kill Christians and Jews.

So they are either following their religion or not.

If we follow Jesus Christ, do we only follow some of his teachings and discard the rest?

Well, I guess there are those who claim to follow Jesus who follow only some of his teachings and discard the rest. Because this group that attacked the Jews on the subway claimed to be Christians, followers of Jesus. But that doesn't mean that all Christians act this way and would do this to Jews.

So--when the real Jerusalem on earth is invaded --it will mean nothing to you folks, right?

Revelation 1210 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.

Those who dwell in heaven are told to rejoice. But there is "woe" for them that dwell in the earth and in the sea!

Doug

And, what do you think that is supposed to mean, practically speaking?

Because I'm talking about a real event. I'm not sure what you are talking about.

If I'm dead and in heaven, I will be happy?

To those that dwell in the earth, the earthly Jerusalem is "real," the heavenly one is not. The earthly country called "Israel" is the "real" one, the Israel of God is not. TV news announcers, newspaper reporters, politicians recognize only the earthly things. John said that dragon "that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan," "deceiveth the whole world."

Those that dwell in heaven are those who are "in Christ," who teaches us that the earthly Jerusalem and its temple were among the things called "an example and shadow of heavenly things." [Heb. 8:5]

Doug

Oh, in that case, since I'm not real to you, I guess you're not real to me, either. lol

Since I'm still walking around on earth, my temple is not in heaven. This body is the temple of the Lord. My feet are still touching the ground. And, I will do what I can to help my brothers, as God has instructed me.