Genevieve Marie:Also, to all the men who are all "Oh just go straight to the police, bam conviction. Easy." Think about it more- try to imagine how you'd feel after say, waking up hungover, because maybe you had too much to drink and maybe someone drugged you. Then realizing that the guy in bed next to you raped you the night before. Now you're still sick and confused and you know something's wrong, but you can't quite put words to it, I mean, you know this guy. Maybe not all that well- he's in a few of your classes. But he seems pretty normal. Also, he's putting on his clothes and leaving and telling you bye and acting like whatever just happened wasn't that big a deal, even though you know you didn't want to have sex with him and you know you didn't say yes. In fact, you remember telling him you weren't interested. But you know that accusing someone of rape is a huge deal and you know the circumstances are pretty fuzzy.

So what's your first reaction? Do you jump out of bed and go "Oh man, clearly this was rape and I must go to the police right now." Do you sit through a rape kit which takes hours, go through a full gynecological exam (which is way more invasive than most men probably realize) and have people combing over every part of your naked body and all of your body cavities for any trace of evidence all the while knowing your story probably isn't going to hold up in court?

Genevieve Marie:orbister: Genevieve Marie: And gah, the idea that your body is something you should constantly be aware of other people coveting is just... gah, I don't think most men can imagine what a mindfark that is.

And yet the entire fashion, cosmetic and underwear industries are built on that concept. Nobody is forced to wear a wonderbra, you know.

aaand with that, I'm done with you.

That's a shame. I was hoping you'd explain why it is that so many women (and men) seem to go to so much trouble to attract unwelcome attention. Real life is difficult, isn't it?

Genevieve Marie:Glad to see you in here by the way. I... am tired. And kind of wishing this could be a day of wine drinking and tv watching.

I can't blame ya, it's an uphill battle here. Heh, I'd join in but I think you covered any points I'd make anyway. It's pretty bad when a rape thread just makes you want to say f*ck it and watch tv and drink wine all day.

Genevieve MarieBut please. Share a few more earth shattering revelations about how reality works and what it's like to be a woman.

Okay. You secretly fantasize about being taken by force. This realization disturbs you so you deny it to yourself and your pent-up self hate causes you to blame men for even your own hidden thought processes and lash out in threads about rape.

serial_crusher:5monkeys: To all the "she should have went to the police otherwise it isn't true" people. I was raped. I didn't go to the police. Why? Because I was 17 and afraid. He was a football player. He was a star in our school and I was a nobody. I knew no one would believe me, or even worse they would blame me. I just wanted to move past it. It took me ten years. Are you saying I am a liar? That it never happened?

Sorry to hear that. But, did you go to the school board to complain about it, or did you just keep quiet all together. Because all the things you were afraid of: nobody believing you, siding with him... All those things would have been just as likely to happen if you went to the school's honor court or the media instead of the police.

Your story is an unfortunately common one, but it doesn't seem consistent with this girl's actions. It's not that she didn't report the rape to the police. It's that she reported it to everybody except the police.

I told my best friend and she told people who told people. Within a week I was being harassed in the hall, threatened by other girls in the locker room and bathroom. I was basically told if I snitched I would get stabbed. So I went from a bubbly happy teeneager to a girl who hid in a hoodie everyday hoping to be invisible. My friends all turned on me because he was in our group. I was the liar and he was the victim. That was the worst part. The rape was bad, but what happened later was devastating. I got to the point where I didn't want to live anymore. My mom called crisis on me and I finally told the adults what happened. They wanted me to go to the police, but I refused. There was no point. I couldn't have handled the investigation. So, I got therapy. And new friends. I graduated and married. And one day I realized it was a week after my rape date and I hadn't noticed. I knew I was finally better.

I should have went to the police. Another girl was raped by the same guy a few months after me. She didn't report it either. She came to me after it happened and apologized for not believing me. He was always such a nice guy and she believed all the lies about me until he drug her into the woods and raped her. I wish I could have been strong enough to go to the cops. That would have saved her. But I wasn't and I don't know if I would be today if it happened again.

orbister:Genevieve Marie: orbister: Genevieve Marie: And gah, the idea that your body is something you should constantly be aware of other people coveting is just... gah, I don't think most men can imagine what a mindfark that is.

And yet the entire fashion, cosmetic and underwear industries are built on that concept. Nobody is forced to wear a wonderbra, you know.

aaand with that, I'm done with you.

That's a shame. I was hoping you'd explain why it is that so many women (and men) seem to go to so much trouble to attract unwelcome attention. Real life is difficult, isn't it?

When I was in college, girls would wear these low cut shirts with unbuttoned sweaters over them. Then they'd kind of pull the sweater closed when I walked by and took a quick gander at their cleavage. Always made me feel a little sad.

It's not that they don't want attention. It's that they don't want your attention.

doubled99:Genevieve MarieBut please. Share a few more earth shattering revelations about how reality works and what it's like to be a woman.

Okay. You secretly fantasize about being taken by force. This realization disturbs you so you deny it to yourself and your pent-up self hate causes you to blame men for even your own hidden thought processes and lash out in threads about rape.

Actually, there are a lot of feminists who are into BDSM and very open about that and have zero problem reconciling the desire to act on private fantasies with the simultaneous desire to control the circumstances of that to some degree- especially with respect to partner choice.

Oddly enough, people who support sex positivity and enthusiastic consent tend to be pretty cool with sexual kink. As far as I'm concerned, any fantasy acted out between two consenting adults is just fine.

Genevieve Marie:It wasn't because they were making judgment calls at all. It's because they were making such consistently terrible judgment calls.

Oh right, so you have nothing against poor process as long as it gives the decisions you want? What if the ex-boyfriend in this case said "My ex-girlfriend is making all sorts of vile accusations about be. Can you move her to another dorm and make sure we don't share classes, please?"

Genevieve Marie:Callous: ou should be able to get passed out drunk at a party full of people and have no worries of getting raped because no one should take advantage of you. Reality doesn't work that way.

Rape, like mugging, is often a crime of opportunity. You don't have to be constantly vigilant, but there are circumstances where the risk is higher. And there are behaviors that increase that risk, therefore there are behaviors that will decrease the risk.

And your clothing could be a factor in fighting off an attack. Clothes that restrict movement will work against you, shoes that aren't easy to run in, etc. What I'm trying to tell you is to be aware of the circumstances everyday life puts you into and take steps to manage the risk.

I... really should stop being surprised that there are men who think these are HUGE REVELATIONS FOR WOMEN ZOMG. You mean some situations present higher risks than others? Oh man, thank you so much for that revelation. I've never considered that perspective before, no sirree. I should do something about this?

Maybe I should start carrying around pepper spray, trying not to be caught alone in an elevator with a guy I don't know, avoiding parking garage stair wells, not walking too close to rows of cars in case someone is hiding between them, checking over my shoulder with a compact mirror if I'm worried someone is lurking behind me, making sure i never leave my drink unattended, having a friend walk me to my car at night, calling my boyfriend when I leave somewhere so he knows when I should be home. Oh! And when I was single, I probably should have been making sure a friend always knew where I was when I want on dates with someone. Oh and I should definitely find a buddy at parties and make sure we watch out for each other.

Oh wait. That's all the shiat I've done since I was a teenager. Like almost every other woman I know.

But please. Share a few more earth shattering revelations about how reality works and what it's like to be a woman.

So that statement that I bolded in my previous post, where another poster stated that a rape could be prevented. When you jumped all over it and called it ugly, ugly bullshiat, what exactly were you trying to say there?

Callous:So that statement that I bolded in my previous post, where another poster stated that a rape could be prevented. When you jumped all over it and called it ugly, ugly bullshiat, what exactly were you trying to say there?

That the implication that rape can ALWAYS be prevented and that if a woman fails to prevent it, she is somehow complicit in it is hideous. And that's always the context there.

Women actually do know how to look out for this stuff. It's hammered into us from the time we hit puberty. Usually people aren't as good about spelling out the fact that rape happens anyway, and it's not your fault, even if it happened at a moment where you let your guard down for a second.

Rape is always the fault of the rapist. That statement should be pretty self-evident.

Tat'dGreaser:Genevieve Marie: Glad to see you in here by the way. I... am tired. And kind of wishing this could be a day of wine drinking and tv watching.

I can't blame ya, it's an uphill battle here. Heh, I'd join in but I think you covered any points I'd make anyway. It's pretty bad when a rape thread just makes you want to say f*ck it and watch tv and drink wine all day.

all I gotta say is that the same names keep cropping up in these discussions...the same people supporting some pretty horrific things, all holding (generally) the same points of view on life, politics and the law.

5monkeys:serial_crusher: 5monkeys: To all the "she should have went to the police otherwise it isn't true" people. I was raped. I didn't go to the police. Why? Because I was 17 and afraid. He was a football player. He was a star in our school and I was a nobody. I knew no one would believe me, or even worse they would blame me. I just wanted to move past it. It took me ten years. Are you saying I am a liar? That it never happened?

Sorry to hear that. But, did you go to the school board to complain about it, or did you just keep quiet all together. Because all the things you were afraid of: nobody believing you, siding with him... All those things would have been just as likely to happen if you went to the school's honor court or the media instead of the police.

Your story is an unfortunately common one, but it doesn't seem consistent with this girl's actions. It's not that she didn't report the rape to the police. It's that she reported it to everybody except the police.

I told my best friend and she told people who told people. Within a week I was being harassed in the hall, threatened by other girls in the locker room and bathroom. I was basically told if I snitched I would get stabbed. So I went from a bubbly happy teeneager to a girl who hid in a hoodie everyday hoping to be invisible. My friends all turned on me because he was in our group. I was the liar and he was the victim. That was the worst part. The rape was bad, but what happened later was devastating. I got to the point where I didn't want to live anymore. My mom called crisis on me and I finally told the adults what happened. They wanted me to go to the police, but I refused. There was no point. I couldn't have handled the investigation. So, I got therapy. And new friends. I graduated and married. And one day I realized it was a week after my rape date and I hadn't noticed. I knew I was finally better.

I should have went to the police. Another girl was raped by the same guy a few mont ...

Have you ever read Speak? I'd assume probably, but in case you missed it, it mirrors your story almost exactly. Your story is the story of way, way too many people.

Rape is always the fault of the rapist. That statement should be pretty self-evident.

unless you're a Republican. then rape doesn't exist. it's one of those 'made up' crimes women libruls use to attack fine upstanding good christian men who never did anything wrong. because they NEVER do anything wrong. it's always someone elses fault.

Weaver95:all I gotta say is that the same names keep cropping up in these discussions...the same people supporting some pretty horrific things, all holding (generally) the same points of view on life, politics and the law.

Oh really? That's pretty f*cked up that they are this consistently f*cked in the head that people would recognize their logins.

I just can't wrap my head around supporting anything that blames a rape victim.

Tat'dGreaser:Genevieve Marie: orbister: Genevieve Marie: And gah, the idea that your body is something you should constantly be aware of other people coveting is just... gah, I don't think most men can imagine what a mindfark that is.

And yet the entire fashion, cosmetic and underwear industries are built on that concept. Nobody is forced to wear a wonderbra, you know.

aaand with that, I'm done with you.

I broke my nose from facepalming so hard on that one

I can imagine there are a few posters who have left the thread to deal with their injuries caused by facepalming due to genevieve this thread. She sure has a bee in her bonnet and cannot be reasoned with. With a name like genevieve I`m guessing white middle class. From the `gah` comment about not wanting to be attractive to men I`m guessing attractive. Also from the `ugly ugly` comment she matches beauty and being right which is why she is so sure she is right.

Tat'dGreaser:5monkeys: I told my best friend and she told people who told people.

Ugh, stories like this always make my blood boil. My sister started college when I was stationed in Germany and I had nightmares all the time.

My brother was stationed in Japan. He believed it was my fault. I was a slut because I was at a party and must have been asking for it. That's why I say what happened after was devastating. I was unable to voice what had happened and by the time I could people had already made up their minds.

Rape is always the fault of the rapist. That statement should be pretty self-evident.

unless you're a Republican. then rape doesn't exist. it's one of those 'made up' crimes women libruls use to attack fine upstanding good christian men who never did anything wrong. because they NEVER do anything wrong. it's always someone elses fault.

Tat'dGreaser:Weaver95: all I gotta say is that the same names keep cropping up in these discussions...the same people supporting some pretty horrific things, all holding (generally) the same points of view on life, politics and the law.

Oh really? That's pretty f*cked up that they are this consistently f*cked in the head that people would recognize their logins.

I just can't wrap my head around supporting anything that blames a rape victim.

they are remarkably consistent in their statements and beliefs. it's always the victim's fault, rape is something they don't take seriously. And as I said waaaaaaaaay up thread, in some cases these are the same people who consider rape to be a 'bonus round' punishment for people sent to jail for pot smoking or protesting wall street.

Tat'dGreaser:5monkeys: I told my best friend and she told people who told people.

Ugh, stories like this always make my blood boil.

Agreed. After reading an article someone posted earlier about predators and how rapes are committed by the same people over and over again, I can't help but wonder if perhaps society would be much improved by identifying and permanently stamping out social predators of all stripes.

Rape is always the fault of the rapist. That statement should be pretty self-evident.

unless you're a Republican. then rape doesn't exist. it's one of those 'made up' crimes women libruls use to attack fine upstanding good christian men who never did anything wrong. because they NEVER do anything wrong. it's always someone elses fault.

Personal responsibility!!1!!!!!1

it's weird how often the party of personal responsibility manages to dodge out of being responsible for their own actions.

Weaver95:Tat'dGreaser: Weaver95: all I gotta say is that the same names keep cropping up in these discussions...the same people supporting some pretty horrific things, all holding (generally) the same points of view on life, politics and the law.

Oh really? That's pretty f*cked up that they are this consistently f*cked in the head that people would recognize their logins.

I just can't wrap my head around supporting anything that blames a rape victim.

they are remarkably consistent in their statements and beliefs. it's always the victim's fault, rape is something they don't take seriously. And as I said waaaaaaaaay up thread, in some cases these are the same people who consider rape to be a 'bonus round' punishment for people sent to jail for pot smoking or protesting wall street.

Ugh, that one kills me. What's fun is people who cling to due process arguments even when they're talking about privileges instead of rights- and who then don't see any problem with someone losing even their basic right to bodily integrity if they were convicted of anything, even minor offenses- as long as that person is someone they don't like.

5monkeys:My brother was stationed in Japan. He believed it was my fault. I was a slut because I was at a party and must have been asking for it. That's why I say what happened after was devastating. I was unable to voice what had happened and by the time I could people had already made up their minds.

Well that just made me punch a wall. I always told my sister to never fear telling me, I don't care if she got wasted at a frat party and passed out. I ALWAYS will take my sister's side

Weaver95:they are remarkably consistent in their statements and beliefs. it's always the victim's fault, rape is something they don't take seriously. And as I said waaaaaaaaay up thread, in some cases these are the same people who consider rape to be a 'bonus round' punishment for people sent to jail for pot smoking or protesting wall street.

I don't smoke or agree with Occupy, but damn, rape is a pretty f*cked up punishment for anyone.

5monkeys:To all the "she should have went to the police otherwise it isn't true" people. I was raped. I didn't go to the police....I told my best friend and she told people who told people. Within a week I was being harassed in the hall, threatened by other girls in the locker room and bathroom. I was basically told if I snitched I would get stabbed. So I went from a bubbly happy teeneager to a girl who hid in a hoodie everyday hoping to be invisible. My friends all turned on me because he was in our group. I was the liar and he was the victim. /I>

So, instead of going to the cops to report the rape, you ... started rumors about it, and then you are surprised when people don't believe you? Maybe if you had gone to the police to begin with people would have believed you.

It's the difference between

"He committed a crime""Well, did you go to the cops?""Um, no... but he 's a bad person!""Do you have any evidence?""Um, no...""Yeah Right, liar."

And

"He committed a crime""Well, did you go to the cops?""Yes, and here's the evidence against him!""Oh, wow, I guess he is a criminal."

I couldn't have handled the investigation.

So, you'd rather 'handle' an entire lifetime of knowing it happened and you let him get away with it, rather than an hour or two in the ER, and a day in court??

Genevieve Marie:5monkeys: serial_crusher: 5monkeys: To all the "she should have went to the police otherwise it isn't true" people. I was raped. I didn't go to the police. Why? Because I was 17 and afraid. He was a football player. He was a star in our school and I was a nobody. I knew no one would believe me, or even worse they would blame me. I just wanted to move past it. It took me ten years. Are you saying I am a liar? That it never happened?

Sorry to hear that. But, did you go to the school board to complain about it, or did you just keep quiet all together. Because all the things you were afraid of: nobody believing you, siding with him... All those things would have been just as likely to happen if you went to the school's honor court or the media instead of the police.

Your story is an unfortunately common one, but it doesn't seem consistent with this girl's actions. It's not that she didn't report the rape to the police. It's that she reported it to everybody except the police.

I told my best friend and she told people who told people. Within a week I was being harassed in the hall, threatened by other girls in the locker room and bathroom. I was basically told if I snitched I would get stabbed. So I went from a bubbly happy teeneager to a girl who hid in a hoodie everyday hoping to be invisible. My friends all turned on me because he was in our group. I was the liar and he was the victim. That was the worst part. The rape was bad, but what happened later was devastating. I got to the point where I didn't want to live anymore. My mom called crisis on me and I finally told the adults what happened. They wanted me to go to the police, but I refused. There was no point. I couldn't have handled the investigation. So, I got therapy. And new friends. I graduated and married. And one day I realized it was a week after my rape date and I hadn't noticed. I knew I was finally better.

I should have went to the police. Another girl was raped by the same guy a few mont ...

Have you ever read Speak? I'd assume probably, but in case you missed it, it mirrors your story almost exactly. Your story is the story of way, way too many people.

Nope. Never read it. I will look it up. I thought I was better, but typing right now and feeling the tears well up makes me realize I only put it in a spot in my brain where I don't let it get to me. Its a damn shame that it can still hurt me. Its been 16 years. God gave me a gift 8 years back. My third child was born on the date. It became a happy day, not a bad day. I wonder if I will ever be able to do what I really want, just forget the whole mess ever happened.

James F. Campbell:Agreed. After reading an article someone posted earlier about predators and how rapes are committed by the same people over and over again, I can't help but wonder if perhaps society would be much improved by identifying and permanently stamping out social predators of all stripes.

Did you ever hear of the guy who went on Reddit and explained in detail how he date raped women in college? Holy f*ck was it disturbing. You could really see why it's so difficult for a rape victim to come forward. Hell, most of them probably didn't even realize it was wrong until much later.

5monkeys: To all the "she should have went to the police otherwise it isn't true" people. I was raped. I didn't go to the police....I told my best friend and she told people who told people. Within a week I was being harassed in the hall, threatened by other girls in the locker room and bathroom. I was basically told if I snitched I would get stabbed. So I went from a bubbly happy teeneager to a girl who hid in a hoodie everyday hoping to be invisible. My friends all turned on me because he was in our group. I was the liar and he was the victim.

So, instead of going to the cops to report the rape, you ... started rumors about it, and then you are surprised when people don't believe you? Maybe if you had gone to the police to begin with people would have believed you.

It's the difference between

"He committed a crime""Well, did you go to the cops?""Um, no... but he 's a bad person!""Do you have any evidence?""Um, no...""Yeah Right, liar."

And

"He committed a crime""Well, did you go to the cops?""Yes, and here's the evidence against him!""Oh, wow, I guess he is a criminal."

I couldn't have handled the investigation.

So, you'd rather 'handle' an entire lifetime of knowing it happened and you let him get away with it, rather than an hour or two in the ER, and a day in court??

Genevieve Marie:Ugh, that one kills me. What's fun is people who cling to due process arguments even when they're talking about privileges instead of rights- and who then don't see any problem with someone losing even their basic right to bodily integrity if they were convicted of anything, even minor offenses- as long as that person is someone they don't like.

remember our earlier discussion about 'mindless obedience to authority'? using rape to keep people in line is entirely consistent with an authoritarian worldview. the organization is never wrong, it's always the vicitm's fault. don't rock the boat, don't protest or you'll get raped in jail and don't embarrass the university with your charges of rape or we'll boot your ass outta school and ruin your reputation forever. the organization is always right, the victim is always wrong. And so it goes.

fredklein:So, you'd rather 'handle' an entire lifetime of knowing it happened and you let him get away with it, rather than an hour or two in the ER, and a day in court??

I'll never understand women.

Then you have really terrible empathy skills. You've also got the privilege of being raised to believe that generally people will believe you.

You've had the great fortune to never experience life as a teenage girl- where mostly, the whole world treats you like you're stupid and where really strange notions of sexual purity and chastity are foisted upon you.

Most people can put themselves in someone else's shoes, and at least understand why it would be so traumatic to share something terrifying and deeply personal with the world, knowing that you might not be believed and that a lot of people would be angry at you for telling. Most people can also at least understand that a rape exam is not a minor inconvenience- it's a whole other violation and one that's particularly terrifying to a teenage girl.

Tat'dGreaser:I don't smoke or agree with Occupy, but damn, rape is a pretty f*cked up punishment for anyone.

A lot of authoritarians are pretty open about that sort of thing. they LOVE to hear stories about OWS people being abused. or anyone who doesn't mindlessly follow orders. if a pot smoking hippie gets raped in prison, they're totally cool with it. it's considered a bonus round freebie for the state. helps keep the hippies in line.

Genevieve Marie:Which means you have to avoid certain bars. That's a super minor inconvenience. Sadly, I cannot just detach my vagina and leave it at home for safe keeping. It kind of goes where I go. And the threat of rape? Isn't confined to one shady bar district downtown. It's a risk at all times. People get raped by partners, friends, business associates, casual acquaintances, professors, and strangers. What's your solution here?

It must suck to be constantly afraid of everything, but you need to realize that you being over fearful of everyone around you isn't reasonable and it certainly doesn't mean other people's rights and behavior should be forcibly changed to accommodate your extreme level of fear.

Genevieve Marie:Maybe I should start carrying around pepper spray, trying not to be caught alone in an elevator with a guy I don't know, avoiding parking garage stair wells, not walking too close to rows of cars in case someone is hiding between them, checking over my shoulder with a compact mirror if I'm worried someone is lurking behind me, making sure i never leave my drink unattended, having a friend walk me to my car at night, calling my boyfriend when I leave somewhere so he knows when I should be home. Oh! And when I was single, I probably should have been making sure a friend always knew where I was when I want on dates with someone. Oh and I should definitely find a buddy at parties and make sure we watch out for each other.

Oh wait. That's all the shiat I've done since I was a teenager. Like almost every other woman I know.

Holy shiatballs. If that's what you do on a daily basis, you really need to lower the defcon level. You're actually afraid of being on an elevator with a guy you don't know and you use a mirror to look over your shoulder? You have some serious issues that you need to work on, because that goes way, way beyond the normal level of situational awareness that all people should be exercising in order to avoid making themselves a target for a crime of opportunity. If I saw you walking around like that, I would assume that you are terrified, weak and an easy target because that is the image your self-described behavior projects.

The level of fear and hypervigilance that you're describing here doesn't seem healthy or rational. The person who needs to work on this is you.

5monkeys:Nope. Never read it. I will look it up. I thought I was better, but typing right now and feeling the tears well up makes me realize I only put it in a spot in my brain where I don't let it get to me. Its a damn shame that it can still hurt me. Its been 16 years. God gave me a gift 8 years back. My third child was born on the date. It became a happy day, not a bad day. I wonder if I will ever be able to do what I really want, just forget the whole mess ever happened.

You'll never forget and it will always be a part of who you are, and I'm sorry that's your reality. I do however, hope that you can get to a place where the pain and the fear and the ugliness transmutes itself into something else. Honestly? It sounds like you're half way there as it is. You also might want to look at Project Unbreakable- it was linked here earlier. A lot of women sharing their stories in an empowering way, and taking back their power over this thing that happened to them. It might help.

Tat'dGreaser:Did you ever hear of the guy who went on Reddit and explained in detail how he date raped women in college? Holy f*ck was it disturbing. You could really see why it's so difficult for a rape victim to come forward. Hell, most of them probably didn't even realize it was wrong until much later.

No, I have not. I really hope something was done about him.

Tat'dGreaser:Sh*t like this makes me really anxious to get into law enforcement.

As well you should be. Aggressive narcissists and social dominators are, unsurprisingly enough, attracted to law enforcement positions due to the opportunity it gives them to wield authority over others with impunity.

fredklein:5monkeys: To all the "she should have went to the police otherwise it isn't true" people. I was raped. I didn't go to the police....I told my best friend and she told people who told people. Within a week I was being harassed in the hall, threatened by other girls in the locker room and bathroom. I was basically told if I snitched I would get stabbed. So I went from a bubbly happy teeneager to a girl who hid in a hoodie everyday hoping to be invisible. My friends all turned on me because he was in our group. I was the liar and he was the victim. /I>

So, instead of going to the cops to report the rape, you ... started rumors about it, and then you are surprised when people don't believe you? Maybe if you had gone to the police to begin with people would have believed you.

It's the difference between

"He committed a crime""Well, did you go to the cops?""Um, no... but he 's a bad person!""Do you have any evidence?""Um, no...""Yeah Right, liar."

And

"He committed a crime""Well, did you go to the cops?""Yes, and here's the evidence against him!""Oh, wow, I guess he is a criminal."

I couldn't have handled the investigation.

So, you'd rather 'handle' an entire lifetime of knowing it happened and you let him get away with it, rather than an hour or two in the ER, and a day in court??

I'll never understand women.

I told my best friend because I trusted her. I didn't expect her to tell anyone else. If you really believe that all you go through reporting a rape is an hour or two in an er and a day in court then I am not surprised that you don't understand woman, because you don't understand reality.

Dissociater:I'm not even sure what people are arguing about at this point...

The designated hitter rule

James F. Campbell:As well you should be. Aggressive narcissists and social dominators are, unsurprisingly enough, attracted to law enforcement positions due to the opportunity it gives them to wield authority over others with impunity.

Tat'dGreaser:5monkeys: My brother was stationed in Japan. He believed it was my fault. I was a slut because I was at a party and must have been asking for it. That's why I say what happened after was devastating. I was unable to voice what had happened and by the time I could people had already made up their minds.

Well that just made me punch a wall. I always told my sister to never fear telling me, I don't care if she got wasted at a frat party and passed out. I ALWAYS will take my sister's side

Weaver95: they are remarkably consistent in their statements and beliefs. it's always the victim's fault, rape is something they don't take seriously. And as I said waaaaaaaaay up thread, in some cases these are the same people who consider rape to be a 'bonus round' punishment for people sent to jail for pot smoking or protesting wall street.

I don't smoke or agree with Occupy, but damn, rape is a pretty f*cked up punishment for anyone.

heili skrimsli:Holy shiatballs. If that's what you do on a daily basis, you really need to lower the defcon level. You're actually afraid of being on an elevator with a guy you don't know and you use a mirror to look over your shoulder? You have some serious issues that you need to work on, because that goes way, way beyond the normal level of situational awareness that all people should be exercising in order to avoid making themselves a target for a crime of opportunity. If I saw you walking around like that, I would assume that you are terrified, weak and an easy target because that is the image your self-described behavior projects.

Have you never spoken to most women about how they look out for themselves? I'm not even close to atypical here. That's why it's so hilarious to see men be all "Well you should really learn to watch out for your surroundings."

No shiat, Sherlock. We kind of know that. We've integrated it into our normal routines and most of us do it totally unconsciously and without letting it interrupt our normal days. You wouldn't be able to look at me and tell that I'm alert to strangers around me. You can't look at most women and tell that. Doesn't mean we don't do it.

Now be grateful that you had the privilege to be born in a world that doesn't demand the same of you and then blame you if you fail to be vigilant for a few hours and become a victim.

heili skrimsli:It must suck to be constantly afraid of everything, but you need to realize that you being over fearful of everyone around you isn't reasonable and it certainly doesn't mean other people's rights and behavior should be forcibly changed to accommodate your extreme level of fear.

Actually, given our societies response to 9/11 and terrorism...being constantly 'afraid' (as you say) is entirely consistent with how we are supposed to live our lives. between the war on drugs and the war on terror, we've been forced to put up with terribly invasive and incredibly inconvenient 'security procedures' to accommodate OTHER people's extreme levels of fear. TSA gate rape is a good example of what i'm talking about. we have to put up with those procedures despite knowing they are completely ineffective, all because someone else is terrified of another hijacking..

so...meh. kinda gets lost in the background of larger issues in our society.

Weaver95:Genevieve Marie:Ugh, that one kills me. What's fun is people who cling to due process arguments even when they're talking about privileges instead of rights- and who then don't see any problem with someone losing even their basic right to bodily integrity if they were convicted of anything, even minor offenses- as long as that person is someone they don't like.

remember our earlier discussion about 'mindless obedience to authority'? using rape to keep people in line is entirely consistent with an authoritarian worldview. the organization is never wrong, it's always the vicitm's fault. don't rock the boat, don't protest or you'll get raped in jail and don't embarrass the university with your charges of rape or we'll boot your ass outta school and ruin your reputation forever. the organization is always right, the victim is always wrong. And so it goes.

Oh absolutely. It's very much a power and a control thing. Rape always is- and authoritarian men are much more likely to be rapists than people who have a healthier view of others.

Genevieve Marie:Ugh, that one kills me. What's fun is people who cling to due process arguments even when they're talking about privileges instead of rights

And I am pretty astonished to see an argument that due process doesn't matter unless it concerns an entirely arbitrary set called "rights". Standards of proof may rightly vary, but the idea that due process doesn't matter is really depressing.

Genevieve Marie:5monkeys: Nope. Never read it. I will look it up. I thought I was better, but typing right now and feeling the tears well up makes me realize I only put it in a spot in my brain where I don't let it get to me. Its a damn shame that it can still hurt me. Its been 16 years. God gave me a gift 8 years back. My third child was born on the date. It became a happy day, not a bad day. I wonder if I will ever be able to do what I really want, just forget the whole mess ever happened.

You'll never forget and it will always be a part of who you are, and I'm sorry that's your reality. I do however, hope that you can get to a place where the pain and the fear and the ugliness transmutes itself into something else. Honestly? It sounds like you're half way there as it is. You also might want to look at Project Unbreakable- it was linked here earlier. A lot of women sharing their stories in an empowering way, and taking back their power over this thing that happened to them. It might help.

Thanks. I will. I honestly thought I was further than this. I should really avoid rape threads.

5monkeys:My friends all turned on me because he was in our group. I was the liar and he was the victim.

This is the part of rape that nobody really talks about - it happened to me, too. Not even one of my (soon-to-be-former) friends believed me until another girl in our group admitted that the same guy had raped her as well, and even then, about half of them decided that we both had to be liars because he was so much older and more mature than we were. Even after he was arrested, put on trial and convicted...

On the other hand, at least my parents believed me, and he'll be rotting in prison for the rest of his worthless child-molesting life. That thought always brings a smile to my face.

/Internet group hugs.//This thread is so much nicer with all of the pro-rape farkwits favorited!ed.

Heh, just recently some guy took advantage of her financially. Sure it was her fault she shouldn't have lent him money but that doesn't make it right. Thankfully for her the guy is Active Duty Army and I know how they are with private debt. Got his name, rank and unit. Called my 1SG, he called his 1SG and the guy ended up paying my sister back plus interest.