Yeah that was pretty awful. Something the DJ would spin VERY early in the evening while s/he's sorting through records and no one really wants to dance just yet. Polite house over martinis. And there are no dynamics to it; nothing slams into place. The vocals are bland. The lyrics are banal. And finally, it's not all that funky!

Yes but the loli-sex vocals and the socafied beats, you don't find that kind of different and kind of essentially london-ish somehow? I don't see how anyone could think this sounded like Hed Kandi or Naked or whatever...

It's more attenuated than the Hed Kandi norm. But I bet it wouldn't prick up my ears if it was thrown on one of their comps. And I don't live in London so I can't comment on how different-yet-same it is.

I mean, I guess it's okaaaaaaaaaaay on a second listen. But definitely nothing to write home (or start a thread) about.

Right you know how people have started talking about a revitalised funky house scene in London, how exactly does this differ from the funky house scene that's been all over London for the last few years?

I like this quite a bit, though it's not the best funky house (in the strict london '08 sense) tune I've heard. I like that the genre is increasingly coalescing around that post "Cure & The Cause" sound but with a stronger Carribean influence - I'm hoping it becomes even more syncopated. Funny how bassline and funky house have so cleanly split speed garage influences between them.

Secret prescient and lost funky house tune before the fact: Mis-Teeq's "Eye Candy".

Pleasant enough but I agree the lyrics and vocal hooks could be stronger, although the singing itself is fine. The worst thing for me is I don't like the piano and snare sounds they've used, especially the piano (something about its tone grates with me).

One thing that's important to note is that UK equivalents of vocal house, esp. in the post-speed garage tradition, have never been interested in lyrical profundity or vocal power in the way that the US tradition has been. There's very few stirring diva performances - most of it is more focused on how very simple vocal phrases are situated in the mix. So people looking for good "songs" from this genre will inevitably be disappointed. But, you know, Dem 2's "Destiny" didn't need to be a "good song" to be fabulous, and nor does this stuff.

Blackdown had a great little bit on the lyrics to this track on his blog.

and in addition to that overly obnoxious gear snob post I just made can I just throw in another old jackoff opinion that if this track is what counts for "syncopated" in dance music in 2008 then I would also LOVE to hear what "more syncopated" means

Well it's not like "wow this is the most syncopated music ever", but it's more syncopated than mainstream house, speed garage or bassline, let's put it that way. Given the hyper-stiffness of bassline in particular, it's interesting to see the syncopation/carribean vibe of this stuff emerging as its point of distinction from "funky house" in the broad sense.

When I say "more syncopated" I'm thinking of 2001-era soca-beat 2-step basically - see stuff like TJ Cases's "One By One", or Bump & Flex dub mixes from that period.

Not so much this track, but other Crazy Cousinz tracks strike me as verging on broken beat - esp. the broken beat-like vocal housey tracks Zed Bias was making circa 2002.

Of course early 2002 (as 2-step was losing its grip as the reigning sound, but before the fully-fledged emergence of grime) was the last time this cluster of styles was really not quite clear as to where it was going, so a return to this temporary impasse makes sense.

The Marcus Nasty funky house DJ set on DejaVu FM that Martin Clark talks about and links to here is sick.

There's a track in the first section that actually sounds 95% of the way to my dreams for the genre, halfway between TJ Cases' "One By One" and Davinche's old 'R&G' productions ("Leave Me Alone", "Mr. DJ" etc.). But the whole thing is really exciting and vibey feeling.

Martin's right as well when he says that this stuff sounds more exciting with MCs chatting over the top.

I cannot stop listening to this Marcus Nasty set. If you've wondering how on earth "funky house" can form it's own distinct genre you've gotta check it, I've never heard a house set that captures this specific vibe. It's really making me flash back to 2-step in the best possible way (i.e. the feel rather than the specific sound).

I got to say that I think I prefer the kyla to "bongo jam" but anyways...

Re: buying records - Rinse are putting out a Supa D mix CD and the blurb that comes with it says this is the first time any of these are getting a release of any sort. The Kyla original (prod by paleface) is getting a rerelease on Ministry this year so they might put the Crazy Cousinz mix on that...

Yeah I heard both on his mix too - and I completely agree. I just like the sexualness of the Kyla track which makes it the kind of song people will really get into in that leather shoes and designer shirts garage type environment. Every time I hear it I can really picture that scene, although the picture in my head probably has way too much moschino for it to be relevant to 2008. Bongo Jam straddles a line between goofiness, seriousness and Manu Chao that makes it totally dependent on mix context to work. No bad thing that, but I can see it sounding horribly cheesy 90% of the time, especially on radio.

1) Sticky - How Very Dare You
Yes, that Sticky! And this isn't too far from what he was doing circa 2002, great ridiculous diva vocals, huge bass drop, clattering breakbeaty rhythms. Not 4X4 at all but definitely "funky house". Love it.

1) Seany B - Stomper
This reminds me a bit of my beloved "Are You Really From The Ends (VIP Remix)" - stomping and insatiable as the title suggests. Very big 4X4 kick but with all these awesome bongo flutters and counter-rhythms.

"Too much war/Everywhere you go what you fightin' for?/I don't know/Back in the day man raves fi look wife/nowadays man a come rave fi take life/can't deal with it, the trouble and strife/formation that, left to the right!"

I would totally start using "formation that" myself if I didn't know I would sound ridiculous.

I think the last time an area of music so suddenly and completely emotionally/intellectually monopolized me was dancehall in 2003 and before that 2-step in 1999. (grime not so much only because it was harder to find totally hypnotic DJ sets etc.)

Increasingly hearing tracks that totally abandon 4X4, very much taking a leaf from Apple's books in terms of sounding more like soca X grime X old skool rave than actual house, highly syncopated but more uptempo and danceable than grime usually was. Some of the key producers here being Apple, Roska, Footloose, Fuzzy Logic...

Fingaprint's "Take Over" rides a straight syncopated dancehall rhythm, a move I can just feel is gonna become devastatingly popular.

A rather ostentatious example of the grime/funky crossover would be Skepta's "The Rolex Sweep" - there's really nothing about it that on paper would say it was funky more than grime - it just feels like grime.

so so happy about the return of sticky! i always thought "golly gosh" was practically a house track. his drums and synths always sound so much richer than other uk producers. it seems donaeo is also back, i know he was somewhat hated on ilm but i always had a soft spot for mr. fidgit. "devil in a blue dress" is excellent

i can't be the only one who would prefer an instrumental of "bongo jam" though? the vocal annoys the hell out of me!

can anyone tell me some recent non uk tracks that are getting played by funky house djs? "automatic" from the in the barbershop ep on ibadan seems tailor made to uk radio, it samples "1, 2 step"!

I came back onto this thread to say that I finally ID'd that bouncy track with the squiggy descending synth riff and organ interludes that comes after the (equally great) Marcus Nasty dubplate that begins the third section (called Track Four) of the main Marcus Nasty set:

This Marcus Nasty mix is good. Really diverse sounds and beats, too. And this -- "this stuff sounds more exciting with MCs chatting over the top" -- is OTM (and Jamaican toasters have never been of much interest to me, but this MC chatting works, somehow). Thanks, Tim.

On one of the Marcus Nasty shows with Rankin and Shantie there's an amazing section where they're trading lines back and forth (I'll upload the individual section when I get a chance) and it sounds like the most exciting thing in the world.

Nice to hear Rankin again soon. I always loved his rap on the Dreem Teem remix of Amar's "Sometimes It Snows In April" - "There's no question of a doubt / I've checked all the ladies out / You're the finest thing that i've seen / sexy lady come be my dream" (not sure if that last line is correct). In the show he reuses it but makes it "There's no question of a doubt / I've checked all the DJs out / Marcus Nasty the finest I've heard / spread the gospel, gotta spread the word..." This kind of thing pleases me disproportionately.

Unfortunately (and frustratingly) all the Rinse FM show downloads (by Geeneus, Perempay, Supa D) seem to still be dominated by US and even Euro house (one of Geeneus's show included Villalobos and Ame) - which is nice enough but not really what I need more of.

I wonder if this is what it would have been like trying to find good 2-step shows after hearing "Destiny" or "My Desire (Dreem Teem Mix)" way back in 1997, and instead getting conservative Tuff Jam sets. Except at least Tuff Jam were playing lots of UK tracks!

...but maybe even worse. I can't help but feel that because of the bottom falling out of the market for dance singles there aren't any labels jumping on the sound and trying to put out product. Suspect it's going the same way as Jamaica what with everyone doing all those special versions of their songs for radio DJs ("sometimes I wake up so early, so Marcus Nasty can play for me") in order to pay the rent.

So, standard "funky" beat here, but what's so great about this track to me is the tension between the somewhat aggressive, definitely urban sounding bassline, and the sonically fluffy sounding vocals. Of course when you listen to the lyrics they're not actually that fluffy. The thing I like about a lot of these funky house songs is that for the first time in ages (outside of the really pop stuff) dance music lyrics are dealing with 'younger' topics - there's lots of stuff about instant sexual attraction etc. and it's a big contrast with the US scene which tends to produce more 'mature' sounding vocals...

Stomper is a weird one for me - it has that awkward, fruity-loops feel that makes it sound a lot more like grime than most funky... I like that as an ingredient, but when it dominates the recipe I'm not so sure. Tracks that balance this sound with sexier stuff appeal more to me...

Are you talking about "Leader" by Fuzzy Logik?? I've been hearing this track about, first heard DJ Pioneer playing it, then Supa D, Marcus Nasty and now im hearing it everywhere i go, absolutely brilliant! Fuzzy Logik has some real quality tracks about at the min. Definetly one to watch out for reppin the uk funky. http://www.myspace.com/flogik

"Leader" is great. Very pure distillation of the sound I think. Bass sounds in funky are interesting, I think. They go for loud bass, but with a very smooth undistorted sound that kind of backgrounds it a lot more than we're used to in UK dance music...

Yeah I was thinking the same thing Jacob! Like, the MC might mention something about "watch for the bass" but it's this really subtle low-end that is hard to pick up on radio/mp3. So different from bassline (where the bassline is the melody).

It reminds me a bit of early 2-step actually: only a couple of producers like Steve Gurley and Groove Chronicles/El-B were into really prominent basslines, which is why they get namechecked by dubstep fans so much. Everyone had bass in their tracks but it wasn't necessarily leaping out at you - on a track like "Re-Rewind" the bass is quite subtle.

Then Wookie and Zed Bias really popularised big basslines, and by late 2000 it was pretty rare to come across tracks that didn't have a big bassline interlude.

argh this stuff needs to start coming out on vinyl
the groove on this is so great - i really wish i had been trained as a drummer with a lot of this stuff so i could identify whats going on with the rhythms here. that skittering snare is the best

I think the Tawiah one might be released actually - the original track is R&B/rock fusion somewhat like Jamelia's "Something About You".

Deej did you ever hear any of the "R&G" stuff ("rhythm & grime") from about three/four years ago?

Not all of it was hot but some of the rhythmic programming on the best stuff was mindblowing, like KT Pearl's "Mr DJ" - top track!

But otherwise (as I said at the top of the thread) the really interesting rhythms in funky house remind me a bit of that period of UK Garage circa 2001 where it had started to abandon proper 2-step, had yet to get to the Pulse X stage, and was taking most of its rhythmic ideas in the meantime from the Caribbean - James Lavonz's "Mash Up Da Venue", TJ Cases' "One By One" the Bump & Flex Dancehall Dub of Cleptomaniacs' "All I Do", the London Dodgers' "Down Down Biznizz"... As this is some of my favourite music ever I'm very pleased. In fact if funky house goes in the direction I want it to (which remains to be seen - astonishing how many of the scene's big DJs are stuck in a soulful house rut - a pleasant rut to be sure, but a rut nonetheless when compared to the sound Marcus Nasty is pushing) it'll basically be going where I had hoped UK Garage would go had "Pulse X" and "Oi!" not emerged and changed the direction of the scene entirely.

(basically my version of rockism is to cast all music in a "destruction of Eden" narrative with 2-step as Eden)

Can I self-indulgently note that few big-ups have pleased me more than Marcus Nasty and Crazi Cousinz both linking my article on their myspace pages.

Was pleased to note (in line with predictions I had made) that a decent UK funky house DJ set from DJ Smoothie T included both "Calabria 2007" and "Work"

That mix is downloadable from his myspace - a good overview of the scene with "Bongo Jam", "Devil In A Blue Dress", "Make Your Move", "Tell Me", Geeneus's "I Tried", Roska's "Feeline", "Do You Mind", Diamond's "Champagne Dance", TNT's "Take It Low" (love this one - "Up/down/roundanownanow..."), Marcus Nasty's big instrumental dubplates, and a couple of ace tracks I'm not familiar with, including a marvellous smoov-but-secretly-ruff remix of Floetry by TNT which is like the funky house equivalent of "Sincere" or TJ Cases's "Dedicated To Love".

I wonder if this is the same TNT as the UK garage producer who did "Easy Lovin' You"...

For those who're interested, UKrecordshop and Rhythm Division have some vinyl you can order online, including "Tell me", "Do you mind", "Segalizer" and "Mr Bean". That seems to be pretty much all there is around on vinyl...

For those who're interested, UKrecordshop and Rhythm Division have some vinyl you can order online, including "Tell me", "Do you mind", "Segalizer" and "Mr Bean". That seems to be pretty much all there is around on vinyl...

maybe not tho, im listening to 'mr dj' again and i could see it working ... it doesnt really fit in w/ the vibe i go for tho, a little too much dramatic seriousness where my thing has been drifting towards laid back/summery like cali rap and mid 90s r&b, that lonyo track, a little balaeric, etc

Tadow's "Rising Sun" (took me ages to ID this one) is probably the best track (or one of the best) for MCs to ride owing to those 8-bar style switches between the latin piano chords and the throbbing bass sections - works best if pitched up slightly. Anyway I'm mentioning it because there's an insane remix of it that's totally on a fucked up technicolour grime tip. Invasion Records running things right now...

Yo Alan I liked your piece a lot but I don't see why funky house abandons "forward" as a principle, at least relative to dubstep (unless you literally mean "FWD>").

Producers like Roska are at least almost as rhythmically inventive as Mala's best work surely? And have had a lot less time in which to prove themselves (compare/contrast the body of amazing grooves in dubstep circa 2002 with funky house circa 2008 and who wins??? Funky house obv)

Its funny Mala has referred to some of his earliest production work as kind of weird skippy broken house. I wonder what he thinks of this scene, or if he's even aware of it.

Apparently he's going to be playing at the Berghain in a couple of weeks, I wonder how a man who appears to be a devout Rastafarian (sweetest guy I've ever met as well) is going to handle the atmosphere in there.

Yeah I chose Mala as shorthand for "the best/most interesting stuff that dubstep has to offer" - and tracks like "Neverland" and "Forgive" could work in a funky house set.

Alan I think there is that conservative vibe you mention to a lot of funky house but I really don't go for almost any of that stuff - Perempay has underwhelmed me to date for this reason, pretty much.

But I don't think this is a cause for real concern - as we discussed upthread it's a lot like the conservative approach of a lot of speed garage. In the end I think the experimental/grimey end of the scene will become almost irresistible. Perhaps not Apple (who's probably destined to be the Dem 2 of the scene - a revered, pivotal figure, but one that got to the future too soon) but definitely producers like Footloose will (I'm guessing) ultimately be setting the trend in the next twelve months.

The Tuff Jam story is apposite - the central figures on the scene in 1997 (in terms of cross-the-board cred - as distinct from the breakout populism of Julian Jonah/187 Lockdown), they resisted 2-step right through 1998/1999, but by 2000 Matt Lamont was making 2-step tracks and putting out 2-step-dominated DJ mixes.

Vahid the Supa D mix is okay but not mindblowing. If you haven't downloaded any of the marcus nasty sets try this one first:

Yeah the way that Smoovie actually uses "Work" and "Calabria" in the first mix really rams this home. The "Missing You" remix would fit in perfectly here. I'm really hoping that Basement Jaxx start responding to this (I just don't think their trebly Switch homages are as good as they could be).

There's a couple of ragga-hip-housey new tracks actually. Like that one the Crazi Cousinz play with the sped up R&B vocal ("She says she like's it THAT way/so me give it to her THAT way") for the verse and then Vybz Kartel for the chorus ("More/Raw/Hard to the core"). Or the one that just samples Bounty Killer's "yallow yallow" call.

Interestingly another big recycled hit on the scene is Bugs In The Attic's remix of Amy Winehouse's "In My Bed" - for that slightly shrill broken beat R&B vibe. I guess that was the raviest Bugs ever got.

Hi guys just want to let you know that Fuzzy Logik has finally released the long awaited uk funky Bangerz N Mash E.P !

This has been getting battered by all the pirate stations and clubs everywhere and has been getting huge support from the likes of Supa D, MA1, Pioneer, Footloose ( 1xtra ), Marcus Nasty and many more. This EP also has the massive track, What Goes Around which features on the mix CD, Rinse 03 Mixed By Supa D.

Four uk funky house club favourites, on one E.P. <br><br> Features the tracks <b>"What Goes Around"</b>, <b>"Leader"</b>, <b>"Twiss"</b> and <b>"Funky Roller"</b>. <br><br>Limited Press, Out Now!!!

Hi guys just want to let you know that Fuzzy Logik has finally released the long awaited Bangerz N Mash E.P !

This has been getting battered by all the pirate stations and clubs everywhere and has been getting huge support from the likes of Supa D, MA1, Pioneer, Footloose ( 1xtra ), Marcus Nasty and many more.

This EP also has the massive track, What Goes Around which features on the mix CD, Rinse 03 Mixed By Supa D.

Four uk funky house club favourites, on one E.P. Features the tracks What Goes Around, Leader, Twiss and Funky Roller. Limited Press, Out Now!!!

Jacob, track 20 of the Bongo Jam Launch Party mix is Crazi Cousinz' remix of P2J & Shaniqua's "Dance Wid Me". But I think you mean track 19, which I'm guessing is DJ Naughty's remix of Crazi Cousinz & Kimona's "I See You", as it has some of the vocals from that tune.

Yeah, I've heard this one around a bit too. Reminds me of Seany B's "Stompa" a bit - grimey latin house! (who would've thought?). The way "Rumba" just gets larger and larger as it goes is ace, all those new sounds coming in while the central motif just chimes away.

Cheers for all that Tim! You know I really like how things such as "Rumba" are so organic, or at least have all these organic elements. I guess its to do with them using percussion loops and stuff, but also the sounds are blocky and that clap on the four doesn't strike me as quantised. I got my apple vinyl in the post today and siegaliser is so raw, this stuff is so exciting right now. That smoovie t posted upthread is pretty big. Still hate bongo jam though!

In some sense it did chap - but what happened (in very basic, general terms) was that a lot of UK Garage heads abandoned garage as it turned into grime and started listening to US-style funky house instead - where the "funky" really only refers to the bassline.

If there's an equivalent of Todd Edwards in terms of being a US producer who kickstarts a UK reponse, it'd be Dennis Ferrer, whose remix of Fish Go Deep's "The Cure & The Cause" was this new post-garage scene's first and perhaps still biggest anthem.

But what's been happening in the last six months is that productions have been getting rougher, more syncopated and, in some ways, "grimier". But it's an uneven development: not all new tracks are sharing all these qualities simultaneously and evenly.

A tune like "Rhumba" (which I assume is what you mean) uses a very heavy 4X4 kick but the production otherwise has all sorts of references to grime. Be wary of judging from the other tracks on the TNT myspace page, as some of these are bassline productions (a decidedly un-funky post-garage scene based in the north of England).

One thing I find really interesting about Roska's stuff and similar productions is how they can be so fucked up beatwise and still sound like house - often there will still be a 4X4 kick buried underneath the other rhythms, or even if there's not you can still here one in your head. 2-step garage didn't really sound like house at all: admittedly 2-step was also faster than house, but the groove matrix just wasn't compatible.

This stuff doesn't have much to do with 2-step at all though - it's more like a mixture of soca-house, broken beat and grime.

There's something about the way the beats are built that makes the non 4/4 seem so compatible as well. If you were listening to a traditional house set, a move away from a 4/4 kick would seem like a seismic shift but it doesn't with this new stuff. Also, most kicks seem to be getting lighter. Its partly to make way for the bass I guess but that lends itself to polyrhythms much more easily.

The version of Skepta's "The Rolex Sweep" on the Marcus Nasty set with Shantie and Rankin' is the Fingeprint remix. One of the hardest, most insane funky tracks I've heard: the rhythm is a total mess (in a brilliant way). Nothing to do with house at all!

Mind you Donaeo's "African Warrior" is pretty fucking hard as well. Reminds me a bit of the dub of the Wideboys' "Something's Got Me Started", but harder. Love the clash between the rhythm and Donaeo's strained R&B vocals, though he does some MCing here too (actually more like R Kelly singjay).

Likewise if you listen to Roska's "Climate Change", the only kicks are on the 1 and the 4, which gives it a feeling of a groove that starts and kinda ends in house but goes all over the place in the middle of each bar.

oh i think it must be a different one, the one i mean opens with that track sampling jagged edge, then rolex sweep comes in third track in.

this one crazy track later on really pushes home how diverse the sound is at the moment, sounds like a soca-inflected expansion on the breakdown from Sugar Daddy, ridiculous vibes. need to get to one of these raves very soon.

also really feeling the Roska stuff. and loads of other ones i don't know the names of. does anyone have a myspace address for Fingerprint?

Can't access myspace from this computer, but Fingerprint's definitely got a page, a lot of the other producer's pages link to it. But last time I checked (about a week ago) he didn't have his ruffer tracks up I don't think. "The Print" and "The Print (2008 Remix)" are both very good though.

Marcus Nasty has two new mixes up in his Facebook group, FREE MIX CDS.

I don't like them quite as much as his other recent ones though, partly because they're a little bit more conservative, but perhaps mostly because they're missing Shantie, who I rather unfairly now consider to be the voice of funky house (I'm astonished at how much I love this guy).

Also Marcus has done a 2 hour set for BBC 1Xtra (with tracklisting! Finally!) that I still need to check out. This looks good:

mainly wanted cos "a little bit more conservative" strikes me for two reasons: been lazy and catching up, and also that some of the latest developments detailed above i found perturbing wrt their boshing aggression; while there were bits of nasty crew in even the earliest 08 marcus sets they still never cleaved as close to grime as something like 'african warrior' dub - yeah there's polyrhythms there and whatnot, but if you'd called it "any random skepta therapy session (paradox drumfunk remix)" nary an eyelid would be bat. seems a bit besides the point?

One of the things I should have talked more about in my blog post above (but I was kinda feverish and just wanted to finish it) is how even the most grimey of, say, Marcus's sets have heaps of relatively more conservative tunes, falling into two basic categories:

2) The deep house tunes, which (in Marcus's sets) are mostly along the lines of Jerome Sydenham/Dennis Ferrer/Quentin Harris (not that these three guys all sound the same, but that's the space in which these tunes fall) - tunes like Perempay's "Hypnotic", and heaps of others I can't name. Lots of simple but sexy 4X4 beats, spare piano chords and strings.

At the moment as far as I can tell no-one's really playing sets that are wall to wall harder tunes from Apple/Roska/Footloose/"African Warrior (Dub)" etc. And heaps of producers fall on each side of the line, like Seany B has made "Stompa" and "Make Your Move", "Dirty Thoughts"; Footloose has his hard remixes and "Just Leave", same for Fingerprint with his recent remixes and "The Print".

"African Warrior (Dub)" isn't as good as the vocal version for the precise (and rather boring coming from me) reason that it sacrifices that perfect balance between singalong vocal tune and hard as nails groove.

yeah ok, that seems fair. funny to think of it now but i almost feel like i'd wrestled with similar demons whilst wondering if it was right that i should enjoy 'what goes around' that much more than 'leader'. innocent times.

anyway 4 those in the gallery seats, here to illustrate these points is dj naughty's 'tough luck', sandwiched between said 'african warrior' and 'tribal warfare' by a little "but only a very little" bit funky, taped off footloose:

I guess i feel like I'm torn between the two emerging polar positions here. There are some people who say "oh yeah funky house is worthless except for Apple".

Which seems like the argument you'd make if you'd been into dubstep and grime but never got garage itself.

Conversely though I think the scene became really interesting at the point where its range expanded to include light vocal house tunes at one end and Apple at the other. It's the range itself, and the way all of these things are blended into one coherent genre, which I find interesting.

On one of the Marcus/Shantie sets Marcus mixes straight from "Hypnotic" into "Climate Change", and it's a spectacular feat of mixing both technically (the solitary string flares in "Hypnotic" slotting perfectly into an empty space in "Climate Change") and erm thematically - the transition is an embodiment of the openness in this music that possibly can't/won't last.

Yeah I guess that paradox-bosh sound on "African Warrior (Dub)" and "Tribal Warfare" sounds a bit oppressive in the context of two out of the three tracks, but are there any other tracks that even sound like that? They make the ominous-soca of Footloose or Baby Faced Jay's "Tribal Zone" sound a lot more peppy and girly by comparison.

Some of the tracks on DJ Naughty's myspace (not specified as they're mixed together as a segment from a live set) are verging on Germanic deepness, very much Innervisions meets Liebe*Detail.

the transition is an embodiment of the openness in this music that possibly can't/won't last.

haha yeah it's like what you were saying on the tropical thread about proto-paradise interregna and such, only now it's almost as if there's already an immanent strain of of melancholy there for whatever disappointing compromises that lie ahead once this all ossifies.

for my part, i guess my vector is still gonna be that marcus set i attended - but then the spare tautness of that whole vibe, and the interplay with the mc, is always unlikely to fashion itself a foothold in any kind of realworld record sale product. 'do you mind' is actually probably the one vocal tune that's gripping yet unobtrusive enough to stay true to that side, somehow. but it still sounds fantastic on daytime radio.

also, that glint of dancehall in there hasnt really panned out has it. links of what i thought mightve been abrew in a sec!

Actually for me the most exciting thing about this scene is the over 'sexy' element to a lot of it. There's been this weird and persistent de-sexualising of dance genres for ages, and you could see funky as being the turn of that tide. And I particularly like the fact that the sexiness here isn't the self-consciously 'adult' kind but quite often feels a lot rawer and more teenage - something that you could argue only 2step and disco ever nailed before (with obvious exceptions of hip hop/rnb and jamaican styles).

I'm obviously lacking any first hand experience of clubs/raves that play this stuff, but it seems to me that being in an environment where you hear primarily DJ Naughty, Perempay and vocal tunes might actually be more unique and different than one in which it's all hard percussive Apple-style stomp...

I'm thinking that it might be worth reviving just to post stuff about funky house.

"proto-paradise interregna and such"

rtc this is surely in yr top twenty or so. Though "driven home in the somnambulance" remains number 1 always and forever.

It's at least gonna be interesting to see what happens with this stuff. It's not necessarily a case of light&sexy-->hard&masculine, although that's one obvious trajectory for it. Garage is an interesting example here: when 2-step took over the music actually got more lighthearted and poppy than it had been in speed garage's immediately preceding boom boom bassline era, as if the revelation of the 2-step beat itself gave the rest of the music some temporary breathing space in which it didn't have to busy itself with wowing the headz.

If we're gonna isolate syncopated stompadelic producers then I prefer Roska to Apple, but I still don't want Roska's sound to take over the scene. Would much prefer the dominant sound to be a kind of R&B Mark II - only with a more viable/accessible rhythmic basis than R&B Mark I. A tune like Diamond's "Champagne Dance" is as WTF groovewise as anything else but it is also great singalong material. And if tunes like that became the common ground you could see the current arrangement whereby sets can also accommodate both deeper housey tunes and frantic soca-inspired tunes, at least temporarily.

x-post: i would say still pretty underground - i dont see much stuff written abt it or advertised at many club nights. but i'm in london - is london meant to be the centre of the scene?? or is it elsewhere.

i want a jam i can shake my shoulders to and circle around moving weight. vibrate, etc. i don't want some corny shitty breakbeat alternating while some fag samples horns without any high complexity much less meaningfun resolution. i hate this genre

Trying to think of a track that could actually be described as a series of "shout-pouts".

Maybe Skepta's shock claim "Soulja Boy can't dance like me."

Isn't Teh Funky Anthem really an MC version of Crazi Cousinz (superior) "High Heels" - the one that goes "I got my high heels on, and the DJ is playing my favourite song. I'm sipping on JD, and i admit I am feeling a little tipsy..."

Hoping I never live to see a house track offering a shout-pout to Jim Beam though.

been enjoying these most recent ma1 and ng rinse sets also. they are not nearly as kaleidoscopical as the prime marcus cuts or anything, but still some good head-down deep snaking skanking business i feel.

hah i think between funky and riding for bbe and whatnot on the other thread i might be going thru some sort of "once and future king of west london" jazzy herb phase.

Yes but arguably 2step in 1999 was at the culmination of 2-3 years of development and refinement of its basic structures and sounds. It was so much more fully formed as an aesthetic and a scene than 'funky' is right now.

Right now it's much more like when people were talking about 'sunday scene' and 'RIPGroove' first came out and the potential that had to eventually evolve into 2step.

Ha ha Jess said to me in an e-mail that he really wants to hear the funky house track I described as sounding like Cadenza + Bounty Killer samples.

I will make some attempts at track IDs this evening folks - thanks for posting those mixes rtc and jacob!

"Right now it's much more like when people were talking about 'sunday scene' and 'RIPGroove' first came out and the potential that had to eventually evolve into 2step."

I dunno, couldn't you say the "sunday scene" moment was when "The Cure & The Cause" first blew up? I don't know whether these scenes map on to one another timewise really, but if I had to guess I'd say this is the equivalent of 1998 for 2-step.

Yeah "Mario Play The Bloodlclart" (that ravey tune) is great! The use of the synths feels like an extension on a kind of perky carnivalesque siren thing that quite a few tunes do - see Baby Faced Jay's "Tribal Zone" for example.

Not really funky, but how nice is Davinche and Tinie Tempah - "Tears"? It's like funky is even re-galvanising grime to become sunnier and more clubby. He even says "Davinche, we bringing grime back to the clubs" in the intro...

Yo does anyone know the identity of that insane remix of "Bongo Jam" on the Marcus Nasty June show with Rankin? Not the DJ Naughty remix or the live version from their myspace, it's kind of rattling funk though.

"It does mystify me that there isn't more of a groundswell of support for this stuff. There's, like, 5 regulars on this thread? Grime got much more of a response from ILX/the world at large.

Am I the only one who thinks this music is clearly as exciting as that was? (probaby even more so?)"

No, I'm with you on that. Definite shades of 2003 grime for me but coupled with something I felt I missed by not catching 2-step in the moment. The energy's just too intoxicating. Growing interest has turned into unhealthy obsession for me in the last couple of months.

I only just discovered this gold mine of a discussion though, thanks to Siah I think. Here I was hanging around Dissensus wondering why the Funky thread there was so quiet...

Yeah, this is basically 2-step redux for me, in terms of my relationship to the music. It's just so vibey. Except i got into 2-step in the second half of 99 when it was already fully-formed, pretty much. It feels like such a privilege to watch this music unfold before my ears.

straight out the gate and for it to still make total sense, happy to continue to let finney formation dat, left to the right. hurrah.

wondering what that ace carl craig 69-ey thing is in between marlon b 'funky angel' and fuzzy logic's 'work the love' about 1:84 into that show.

i should also like to add to the above (perhaps irrelevantly to some) that in listening to various other shows (ng/ma1/half of rinse these days) in lieu of marcus' singular uh, funky alembic i've been truly impressed at the health of the uk house scene in general, so much so that i could almost forgive them getting crabby about their new attention.

as we were sitting down to dinner last night in like 100 degree heat some car parked outside our house and then started playing 'some times i wake up early in the morning, to play my con-con-congo' real loud. it was awesome.

"Roska didn't send me 'Climate change' as part of the promo pack so I don't actually know!"

:-( Where is my promo. Jacob download the Marcus Nasty "Sexy UK House Set" with Shantie on the mic (from Marcus's myspace) - it has a fabulous mix from Perempay's "Hypnotic" into "Climate Change", and Shantie's pretty great over it too.

It's kind of like a better, more impacting, more focused version of "Pyramids".

oh there is an ilm thread, i had no idea! i spent much of the weekend getting into this - initial super-faves are the perempay & dee rmx of ma1/sophia's 'i'm right here' (so...blissful and generous), perempay and clea soul's 'time to let go' (she sounds like minnie riperton!), the tawiah rmx already mentioned here, and above all dj ng's 'tell me' - so ominous and propulsive!

Yeah I'm increasingly thinking that Footloose is such an interesting selector, he's so rangy and unpredictable, though Marcus has the advantage of MCs.

But, like, that Suges "We Belong To The Night" track, which isn't even UK funky and is (I can only assume) pretty obscure, works perfectly enmeshed with pretty fucked up tracks from Aphrodisiax and the like. His sets are full of this kind of intuitive connection.

does anyone know of any archived Footloose shows? i'd love to have some to listen to away from the computer... agree 100% with the sentiments expressed above, he is a superb dj, amazing selection and sequencing

But, like, that Suges "We Belong To The Night" track, which isn't even UK funky and is (I can only assume) pretty obscure, works perfectly enmeshed with pretty fucked up tracks from Aphrodisiax and the like. His sets are full of this kind of intuitive connection.

yeah. at least one can rest smug in the knowledge we won't hear any dj gregory or seamus haji, though.

I think this is the key to Footloose's use of more "conventional" US house - quality control. Perhaps because he's not invested in some notion of the UK funky house scene as an elaborate homage to the US he seems to plump only for particularly catchy/inventive US tracks.

tsk, set up the trap and now i cant be bothered. i agree with your original assertion of footloose as master juxtaposer, but then the idea that he's only like, creaming off the top of boring old house - i mean would you really have noticed 'we belong to the night' as something special if it were in a less kaleido context? i wouldntve. this follows on (praps overdeterminedly) from jacob's dig, which, while probably just being a well-meaning lunge for a bit of hype, also rings somewhat unfairly: "younger, hungrier, and freed almost entirely from the Chicago tradition" - young, hungry and free enough to giddily embrace chicago tradition until its not tradition anymore, maybe?

it's gonna be v interesting listening to a new set by marcus & co after all this footsie fun, anyway.

also o what joy to hear footloose say his mix of 'thats gangsta' is doing well and has a video that'll be on mtv! hah if some batshit spazz stomper with sheek louch shouting out d-block over and over ends up caning the charts then i actually will enlist in the navy or something ready 2 die for this excellent island.

I've only just started listening to this week's show and will have to listen to the rest tonight, but:

Yes! The Malice remix of Quentin's "My Joy" is simply massive, too-too-intense but also very respectful to the original track.

"On & On" is excellent also.

" i agree with your original assertion of footloose as master juxtaposer, but then the idea that he's only like, creaming off the top of boring old house - i mean would you really have noticed 'we belong to the night' as something special if it were in a less kaleido context? i wouldntve."

Yeah this is a good point. But I think that, because Footloose appears to consider soulfulness/deepness as a category of house music rather than the other way round, his US selections shore up rather than work against the essential diversity of the UK stuff.

Like, that Suges track is soulful and deep, and as you note it's deliberately used as a counterpoint to stuff like "Unfinished Business" which is at the other end of the spectrum. But beyond that, in and of itself it has a "something else" quality to it - a rhythmic irrepressibility perhaps - that makes it seem more than just a soulful/deep track. But you're right that it's the context in which it's spun that draws that "something else" quality out.

Even the all-US-house show seems to cover a really broad range - like, he uses the "all US" tag to justify playing stuff like "Who's Afraid Of Detroit".

Whereas sometimes with someone like Supa D you get the feeling that the devotion to the US stuff operates only insofar as US can be considered to be synonymous with a certain notion of soulfulness/deepness. This issue becomes especially clear when they do play the more obviously UK tracks because it's like there are two different vibes at work. Whereas the skill of Footloose's sets is that he makes it sound like one vibe.

I guess another way to look at it is that Footloose's particular style of wide-ranging "house" produces an aesthetic that portrays all its constituent parts - becoming house as it appears under the light of redemption.

I genuinely believe this: the thinking-about-house that this genre implies (at least when not too beholden to either extreme of US house traditionalism or the kind of post-dubstep parsimony that can see value in Apple and Roska but no-one else) is pretty much the ideal aesthetic take on the form, or the best since early Chicago.

Which is I guess what you're saying rtc when you say "young, hungry and free enough to giddily embrace chicago tradition until its not tradition anymore".

true enough about different dj vibes; perhaps when i lauded the health of the house scene i meant this, more than anything. mac 10 for instance - who i wasnt aware of even being into this stuff until i heard him sitting in for marcus last week - seems like he might be the median of marcus and footloose, with sort of a slightly chunkier grime kid sensibility. (havent put on the vu set yet mind.) quite interesting considering he was reknowned as a don of intensely focused jeff millsy micromixing when a grime dj.

The Malice remix of Quentin's "My Joy" is simply massive, too-too-intense but also very respectful to the original track.

yeah - how apposite to all this that some midlands fella's impure funkymix should also be the closest thing in forever (from what i've heard) to like, the essence of "house is a feeling" transcendence.

when you were wondered earlier why all this wasn't getting the exposure & exegesis of grime/2step/jungle i tried to imagine what the average punter was thinking, and haha the furthest i got - for all the innovations there've been, subtle and overt - was "just house music, innit." and then i realised that only a rattle-headed dissensian fool could ever consider this anything but a great thing.

Yeah I think that's right. So many people are getting stuck on the name in an almost entirely fetishistic manner - like, "I will not listen to this music until it comes up with a new name for exactly what it already is."

x-post Yeah Zed played it on his allstar mix the other week, i was deliriously tired when I listened but I think it was very much a Maddslinky kind of affair.

I just picked up a promo copy of the Peterson comp, but haven't listened to it enough to take in much apart from the annoying promo disclaimers.

It would be so awesome if those guys were like big Public Demand fans or something...

Anyway this:

i tried to imagine what the average punter was thinking, and haha the furthest i got - for all the innovations there've been, subtle and overt - was "just house music, innit." and then i realised that only a rattle-headed dissensian fool could ever consider this anything but a great thing.

...is exactly the reason for the Seamus Haji/freed from tradition stuff in the review. Because when I put up the Kyla review under the genre 'funky house' all the comments were basically in that vein e.g. "funky house? I didn't realise it was still 2002."

In fact I can't actually decide if I even WANT to convince these types of the worth of UK funky.

Anyway "Bring back the routemaster" is getting a proper release shortly. Reckon it'll be a novelty hit?

Tim, is there any set I could hear the Roska remix of Footloose's Just Leave on?

I'm really struggling to keep up with this scene, its been producing so much good stuff in such a short time. Really reminds me of how lost I felt when I first starting downloading grime vinyl rips off of DC++ in 2004.

I'm glad I can buy this music, took me forever to track down some of that grime on vinyl.

Um it's been on the last few Footloose sets on 1xtra but I don't think it's on the new one. It's surprisingly subdued, although very Roska sounding - sorta halfway between "Just Leave" and the original "Feeline".

The DJ Jazzcool mix of Aaliyah's "Rock The Boat" is just lovely. The beats on this insane, but they complement rather than undermine the prettiness and fragility of the original.

Remixes of old tracks are quite useful from a critical-taxonomic perspective as well because they really train yr ears to the points-of-difference in the groove and production.

What is interesting re funky vis a vis 2-step (compare/contrast this remix with, say, "Stone Cold") is how, despite the greater proximity to house, the more avant end of funky often has less of the smooth "flow" I associate with 2-step. This remix feels arrested almost, like the producer has seized on a particular moment of groove-tension and turned it into an entire track. Probably something to do with the tempo: at the slightly slower speed the beats are heavier, so any syncopation has a deeply satisfying air of portentousness to it. You can't get past it. So a (relatively) smaller amount of syncopation has a greater impact.

I'm really not making sense. Listen to the track on Footloose's show and maybe some of what I'm trying to articulate will come across.

OMG "Cuban Linq"! Fuzzy Logic just seems to burst with ideas doesn't he. His "Polyfunk" is amazing too. These tracks (and "Leader" and "Twiss" obv) are just so restless, he can't resist piling new ideas on top of one another.

Probably the producer who makes the unacknowledged Basement Jaxx heritage most explicit.

"What is interesting re funky vis a vis 2-step (compare/contrast this remix with, say, "Stone Cold") is how, despite the greater proximity to house, the more avant end of funky often has less of the smooth "flow" I associate with 2-step. This remix feels arrested almost, like the producer has seized on a particular moment of groove-tension and turned it into an entire track. Probably something to do with the tempo: at the slightly slower speed the beats are heavier, so any syncopation has a deeply satisfying air of portentousness to it. You can't get past it. So a (relatively) smaller amount of syncopation has a greater impact.

I'm really not making sense."

i think it makes perfect sense. to expand on what you mention, a great deal of 2step dealt with micro-samples for percussion... tight and clipped fragments which built incredibly slick grooves. obviously you had some exceptions but broadly this was the case. wheras funky producers seem to relish a chunkier, lengthier, more clumsy sample palette. this automatically introduces a greater degree of 'arrest' or wonk, as rhythmic emphasis within any given hit is spread further away from the rhythmic grid. maybe im not making sense any more now!

another thing i was thinking about in a more technical sense is that most of these tracks have their drum programming set 'straight' rather than with the swing settings we associate with 2step. i think that by doing this, but of course with the syncopated echoes of garage and beyond in their minds, the producers are opening up many new possibilities of grooves. in this sense grime has obvious relevance, in its angularity and stiff rhythms

Hmm do you mean Wookie's old tracks? Cos yeah I can see how stuff like "Down On Me" really sets the tone for funky's rhythms in a lot of ways.

I'm glad you understood the point I was trying to get at! Yr reference to micro-samples is spot on, 2-step grooves could be astonishingly detailed without all that details necessarily interfering with the slickness o fthe groove.

The extent to which funky house mediates between 2-step and grime is very interesting in this regard: retaining grime's angularity but reinjecting it with sensuality. (it was perhaps the attempt to render the stiffness of grime sensuous on a groove level that makes KT Pearl's "Mr DJ" another obvious ancestor to this stuff in my opinion - in a way that, say, "Leave Me Alone" or Terra Danjah's productions aren't)

yeh precisely, Down On Me was the main track I had in mind, but some others apply too i think. on an anecdotal level, i've always been struck how it is near impossible to get Down On Me to sit in a mix with other 2step, then the other week i mixed it with Feeline VIP and it was like the grooves were built for one another..

another technical aspect to the rhythmic comparison is that wheras with 2 step (and much 90s/00s house) the emphasis was on fidgeting or jacking hihats and light-touch, minute syncopated ghost hits, mostly in the higher frequencies, with funky the hats seem to play a largely seconday role, while weightier (both in frequency and 'size') percussive elements take precedence in the groove.

Absolutely, and he rarely gets the credit he deserves, not least from dubsteppers who've somehow written him out of the liturgy. But the man conquered wonky+rude years ago and his rhythmic sense is incredible. Even on a 4x4 the bassline will be tugging at all sorts of odd angles. I haven't heard much of his post-2004ish material, but he certainly foreshadowed aspects of the English take on Funky with some his Manchu beats.

I would love to hear Terror Danjah get on this stuff! Talk about mucked up riddimic sensibilities. And he has a sense of humour too.

My GOD the Malice remix of "My Joy" is probably the greatest house track ever. It's like the skies open and you can suddenly see through time. It has actually made me tear up in response to its metaphysical largesse.

So OF COURSE Footloose mixes straight into "Feeline (VIP MIx)". I'm starting to think he gets a kick out of making his transitions as ostentatious as possible.

yeah, the way footloose uses feeline vip - last week after delio d'cruz, equally insane, equally amazing - as like, an ideological swiss army jackknife is pretty much the crux of what's been said recently. funny really how you almost wanna keep a wary eye on feeline, given the way it rubs the continuuist belly so jarringly, but deploy properly and it's undeniably devastating. (still hope no one ever makes another one, though.)

cos if
ithought
youuuuuu were the end all
and my be all
i would never have left you alone and i wouldnt be on my own and i'd never left you alone and i wouldnt be on my own and i'd never left you alone and i wouldnt be on my own and i'd never left you alone and i wouldnt be on my own and i'd never left you alone and i wouldnt be on my own and i'd never left you alone and i wouldnt be on my own and i'd never left you alone and i wouldnt be on my own and i'd never left you alone and i wouldnt be on my own and i'd never left you alone and i wouldnt be on my own and i'd never left you alone and i wouldnt be on my own and i'd never left you alone and i wouldnt be on my ownand i'd never left you alone and i wouldnt be on my own and i'd never left you alone and i wouldnt be on my own and i'd never left you alone and i wouldnt be on my own and i'd never left you alone and i wouldnt be on my ownand i'd never left you alone and i wouldnt be on my ownand i'd never left you alone and i wouldnt be on my own and i'd never left you alone and i wouldnt be on my own NO WAY NO WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY

i have avoided this so far because i do not get the love for Crazi Cousins stuff at all altho it's interesting that 'Jaguar' is mentioned because i realised the track that 'do you mind' remix's bassline was reminding me of was octave one's 'blackwater'

Of the four Hard House Banton tracks I know - those three plus "Turn It Around" - I reckon "Sirens" is probably the weakest actually, although still pretty good. Love the gothic backing vocals on "Reign".

One of my favourites for some time has been the bootleg remix of DJ Spen & DJ Technics' 'Gabryelle' by Diamondz In Da Ruff. I'd heard other official remixes of 'Gabryelle' being played for ages by funky DJs, and I think the original came out a few years ago now, but this mix is absolutley incredible. I think what appeals most is the almost menacing swagger of the beats in this refix.
Once again, like Steve Gurley in jungle/ukg and Macabre Unit in grime before them, these guys are somewhat north of London (bedford/mk) but are making crucial contributions.

damn. uptown had hard house banton's siren ep for about 8 hours today. already sold out :(

yeh i know! i was ready to sprint out of work on friday but they sold out so quick. definitely just tps though, that tune is going to be one of the biggest this year i reckon. i like Sirens a lot, its simple but so muscular, the most ridiculously powerful groove. looking forward to checking the rest of the EP

simon reynolds - "few things irritate me more than soca"

?! unbelievable.

although seriously does anyone know what that tune is he chats about from Marcus Nasty April?... that one is too much, haven't heard it anywhere else yet though

Still keen to ID that Jagged Edge-sampling track on the Marcus Nasty + Rankin and Shantie show from April. I'm wondering if it's by Target - Marcus announces at the beginning of the show that he's got a track from Target he'll be playing later, and the piano plus moody synth bassline combo would seem to be right up Target's alley.

i might be wrong but i have an inkling that that Jagged Edge tune is Producer Mario, the aesthetic, vibe and samples all seem to fit perfectly. but ive been wrong about these things before. i guess also the percussion doesn't fit so well

Ben you might be right. It's odd how producers often don't put their best tracks on their myspace pages.

Meanwhile I think I underestimated initially how much of a prospective anthem "Frontline" is.

Re SR's complaint of too much bongo-style percussion and evocation of live percussionists at house nights in the early 90s... This seems like an argumentative sleight of hand. The analogy implies a necessary reduction in vibe/intensity and air of anti-perspirant refinement: only tracks that are already relatively sedate could easily be accompanied by live percussionists, and the implication is that the music is not interesting enough by itself, it needs the added distraction of live percussionists.

But the funny thing about UK "funky house" is how the specific sounds are being used in an entirely different manner.

Something like DJ Naughty's "Quicktime (VIP Mix)" - a massive, inescapable anthem - is basically a grime 8-bar, with bongo samples and piano chords replacing electroid-beats and synth stabs. Rather than ripple calmly across the top of the groove, the bongo samples take centre stage and they're wielded aggressively.

someone PLEASE tell me where i can download some of these tracks, particularly the new Wookie ones. in this day & age, there's no way i'm buying records straight from the UK like I did in the olden days, not with the dollar in such shitty condition. Help an old 2-Step head!

Can anyone ID the track on the Marcus Nasty + Rankin set from June with the raucous soca beats and the bleepy melody somewhere between LFO and acid house? It's at about the 80 minute mark sandwiched between "Devil In A Blue Dress" and JME's "Blanka".

you mean tinch's cloud 9 mixtape? it's very good though haven't given it enough of a chance to go beyond that yet. haven't heard the jme album...star in the hood was one of those albums which i loved on first listen, then forgot about and assumed i overrated it due to basic competence, then about five months after that it totally blew me away. how good is 'dance 4 now'?? BOK BOK BOK BOK! and ny is just gorgeous on 'hands of time'.

anyway the amount of goodness here is totally overwhelming and amazing...the footloose set from the 29th is really great. the wookie/ny track is special indeed (as are, oh, about 947843033823 others that i've heard these past two weekends)

I felt a vicious screed full of ad hominems brewing over the last day or two, but I remembered a certain piece about 2-step in the Wire and decided not to take shots at one of the critics I respect most on Earth.

I would like to register some mild disappointment that Simon isn't into this stuff though.

nice one Paul et al for the interview with Roska! im very very very excited to see what kind of stuff he is gonna be turning out next! vocal Roska tracks mmm

re the Simon Reynolds article, i have a lot of love for him and his writing (currently reading Bring the Noise, its so good), in his prime his work is probably the most exciting music journalism i've ever read, but that piece is so full of subjectivity and holes... it seems like quite a personal response really

I can't even remember the sound of "Poppadoms" now. Actually it was just "Wizzbit" redux wasn't it. "Wizzbit" was good. I'm loyal to pretty much any and every grime 8-bar used on that first Nasty Crew mix.

Yeah actually I refrained from making the brazilian funk comparison in my blog posts precisely for that reason (Simon R dislikes funk too if I recall, or is indifferent, or whatever). But I think it only plays into hater hands insofar as everyone already sells funk short, much for the same reasons as they would funky house (oh, it's just a familiar beat spiced up with extra percussion).

As far as I'm aware I'm the only person who heard a massive advance in the groove-science of funk in the More Favela Booty Beats comp from late 06/early 07 when compared to that first comp in that series (and those comps are almost the start and the end of my engagement with the genre). When I reviewed it I said I wouldn't be surprised if it set the agenda for interesting groove-based music to come, not expecting to this to happen of course. The idea being that a focus on (relatively) lo-fi bi-polar percussive clutter offered a way of avoiding the diminishing returns angle of intricate post-Timbaland percussion loops (which defined both 2-step and grime in different ways).

its not that important but i don't agree about Geeneus' grime... Old Skool, Old Skool 2, Jam Hot, Jamnite, Shocka are all classics imo, aside from his PAUG productions. obviously at the darker techier end of things but i still love them. i agree though that it is bizarre to hear his transition into Funky, although Yellowtail has definitely got a techy underbelly i feel

does anyone know what that one with what sounds like a sample of a cd pullback pitched up and down? "weeeeee... we should be together for eternity" - that tune is deep... Marcus Nasty from June at about 11 mins

I'm a bit baffled by all the talk about this stuff like it's some typically London thing - D'n'B, UK Garage, Grime, proper home-grown genres allright, but exactly this kind of syncopated soca-fied funky house has been played everywhere in France, Spain, Holland, Portugal, Brazil for years now. I mean, how different is Bongo Jam from something like Curtir? That UK producers are now importing this sound from their Mediterranean holidays probably was inevitable (the age-old route) and I'm not trying to sound all "respect the originators" but I'm genuinely interested if (and why) you guys think this is more noteworthy than all the non-UK funky house out there?

but as with UK garage, it is (the beginnings of) a homegrown sound which has its roots in one which was imported... if you check the likes of Marcus Nasty or Mak 10 you can hear the emergence of a very distinctively new flavour and approach. Crazi Couzins are a bad reference point to draw conclusions from i think, because they walk the line so finely between convention, pop appeal and the uk vibe... people like Roska, Producer Mario, General Malice, Little Silver, Hard House Banton etc are making music unlike anything i've heard previously. but its also exciting because at the moment you have these weird avant-garde pieces of house sitting at one end of a spectrum stretching to more conventional stuff, all of which is treated completely differently on radio / in clubs, with mcs toasting, pull-ups, aggressive mixing etc.

"does anyone know what that one with what sounds like a sample of a cd pullback pitched up and down? "weeeeee... we should be together for eternity" - that tune is deep... Marcus Nasty from June at about 11 mins"

This is "Speechless" by Mystery.

Yeah Siegbran I'd say it depends on the tracks - "UK funky house" stretches from conventional funky house through to stuff that really isn't house at all (e.g. Dub Boy's "Funky Underground" or Little Silver's "Seasons"). "Bongo Jam" is a bit like the single edit version of "Sweet Like Chocolate" in this regard - it's a (great) track where the specific sonic differences of the scene as a whole are not particularly noticeable. But at least 2-step had its beat as a central defining quality - with UK funky house there's no single strategy of deviation from house per se, but a variety of such strategies. It's really only by listening to, say, a whole Footloose set, that you get a sense of the overall scene aesthetic.

for the past 3 weeks the archive audio for Footloose's 1XTRA shows hasn't been working for me: 'Audio stream is unavailable at this time' (same result from RA link above). other shows (e.g. Cameo) are working fine though. possibly a glitch with BBC's new iPlayer - on BBC's forums there's mention of possible problems for overseas listeners with some shows (why this one?!!!).

if not for r|t|c I wouldn't have been able to hear the shows (except live) - thanks! (new one please anyone?) also thanks Tim for bringing the vibe!

Yeah I don't know that one! It's quite broken beat-ish as well isn't it, the bit where it cuts to just the bass and syncopated beat is insane. That sounds very UK to me - perhaps sampling a US tune though.

Love Shantie's riffing on the title over the top. In my head I always remember him saying "We'll tell 'em that we did it in the name of love!" - like he, Marcus and Rankin' have been arrested for high treason or something. But whenever I listen to that set i realise that this is purely a figment of my imagination.

Of course my favourite Shantie bit on that set (for reasons that should be obvious) is when he's talking about how lucky you are to be hearing the set and that if you're taping it "Don't give it out!... In fact what am I talkin' about?? SEND IT TO AUSTRALIA!"

Yeah I don't know that one! It's quite broken beat-ish as well isn't it, the bit where it cuts to just the bass and syncopated beat is insane. That sounds very UK to me - perhaps sampling a US tune though.

yeh thats what i figured, cos the vocal im pretty sure is from an older US track, i swear i remember it from some chicago deep house set or something, but the beats and general aesthetic imply new UK or a surprisingly coincidental likeness

Love Shantie's riffing on the title over the top. In my head I always remember him saying "We'll tell 'em that we did it in the name of love!" - like he, Marcus and Rankin' have been arrested for high treason or something. But whenever I listen to that set i realise that this is purely a figment of my imagination.

Of course my favourite Shantie bit on that set (for reasons that should be obvious) is when he's talking about how lucky you are to be hearing the set and that if you're taping it "Don't give it out!... In fact what am I talkin' about?? SEND IT TO AUSTRALIA!"

haha! he is a really good MC i think, really vibesy. downloaded a Mak 10 set recently and it was interesting to hear how much more aggressively the MC dominated proceedings. makes for a really good contrast though

i just bought a Babyface Jay & Mystery 12 from 2002 from a bargain bin, quite interesting... one side quite rolling 'soca-beat' garage, a bit like an understated 'Decoy', which is quite decent, but the other is a really horrific moody breakbeaty thing! crazy

UK funky house stretches from conventional funky house through to stuff that really isn't house at all

Of course, but that's true everywhere - all over the world funky house has become a mish-mash of reggaeton, salsa, soca, jamaican toasting, tribal, electrohouse, etc. And much as I like those 1extra radio shows, apart from the occasional bassline-tune and British-accented MCs I don't really hear much that's fundamentally different from what's happening elsewhere (yet). Local flavour yes, new paradigm no.

But I guess it's another one of those "you would have to be there to understand" scenes then.

Siegbran I know Africanism stuff and if that's what you mean it sounds totally different! Not in a bad way, but it's not nearly as, um, wot do you call it... URBAN!?

I mean, I would argue that actual pop-minded Bob Sinclar is closer to UK funky house than the Africanism stuff is. And I have always been a relative defender of stuff like "Rock This Party".

But I will check out Vato Gonzales. Downloading his mixtape now.

I do think you're right that UK funky house is very much in the vein of other "melting pot" scenes (this is one of Reynolds' objections to it - adopting the argument that (to paraphrase) all the melting pot does is mix familiar flavours without creating or discovering a new flavour).

There is, as such, what i would call a plausible deniability to any claims to innovation - even where new things are being done, because they're achieved through convergences between the sonic tactics of multiple styles (rather than a linear process of intensification largely internal to the style - as you got in early-to-mid nineties jungle) you can always point to other convergences in other melting pot scenes that approximate a similar feeling.

A strict modernist take will thus find any such claims to innovations to be either false or potentially true but tenuous and partial only.

My very much post-UK Garage relationship to "funky house" is based on my conviction that the value of UK Garage was not solely its modernist qualities (beats you ain't never heard before) but its multivalency, the way in which different sonic and stylistic components entered into a really productive and largely non-heirarchical relationship with one another so as to become something more than and entirely different from the sum of their parts. The relationship between the sonic components, reference points and influences that made up UK Garage and the overall finished product is something akin to that between individual stars and the constellation that they form when taken together. The irreducibility of this constellation to the influence of any particular star can be seen in the fact that, when the music's moment past, it didn't just go down the sink quality-wise but actually disappeared to all intents and purposes (c.f. drum & bass) - only so long as these stars were articulated together was the music visible and viable - from 2002 onwards all those stars got drawn into different constellations.

I think that UK funky house shows increasing evidence of modernism if you know where to look, but this isn't the primary attraction for me: it's rather the way in which it echoes UK garage in its production of a constellation (albeit a different one) where the arrangement of the (familiar) individual components is what takes on supreme importance. The same components arranged differently would not produce the same result.

One key quality of this arrangement being an ever-so-slightly greater ambivalence to "house" as a constraining factor (though it's less ambivalent than many, say, dissensians might like it to be) - UK funky house cannot decide whether to articulate its components fully in terms of "house", whereas I think most other comparable "melting pot" house scenes have a much a heavier dose of house stock, which ties everything together into a vibe whose ultimate uniformity belies the diversity of the source material. (arguably this ambivalence is directly related to a flirting with the "urban" qualities are note above: it's the tug-of-war between these two qualities that really defines the sense of equipoise you get in this music).

it seems to me that 'funky house' is as much a style of djing as it is a style of production, to the degree that lots of these remixes are pretty simply rhythmic template changes that arent very substantive otherwise, at least in ways that would signify TOTALLY NEW GENRE - so just listening to 'track 2' on the on-site player @ vato's website it sounds like something that would easily be incorporated here

regardless, nothing like this gets any play in chicago ... i check a pretty wide variety of house music venues but this stuff is pretty nonexistent. Anything w/ a soca rhythm or whatever ... the only shit 'hipsters' are on is that annoying nurave/juke/crunk/bmore amalgamation, and otherwise its pretty much straight up HOUSE, nothing that sounds remotely like this w/ the diff rhythmic styles, soca/reggaeton rhythm

whenever dudes would say "carnival" about a grime song i think i almost always hated it but this has a lot more rhythmic grace than grime which i think is why im a lot more attracted to it on the whole

Ha ha on Blissblog SR complained that maybe for the first time the next Notting Hill Carnival will actually sound like a Rio Carnival - I had been thinking of the same possibility in my head only as a really positive thing!

Listening to that Vato mix now -sounds great! Okay Siegbran I can sort of see your point. Vahid has to hear this: it's like Jess & Crabbe come back to life!

The main point of difference I'd mention - apart from the use of MCs in UK funky house - is perhaps the 8-bar structure of a lot of the grimier tunes, which I think gives the music a more palsied stop-start quality, whereas this Vato mix for all its superficial similarities is pushing more of an endless beat or verse-chorus structure. Still, pretty amazing - thanks for the tip!

One thing I particularly like about that Vato mix is how it seems to liberate the potential I hear in Fedde De Grand's production style, that strong sense that it could get really ants-in-yr-pants compulsive if it dropped the repressive electro-house baggage (he actually manages this on his Ida Corr collab-o "Let Me Think About It", which could fit onto Vato's mix pretty easily).

I'm really enjoying his mix though! Ironically, though, not really in the same way that I enjoy UK funky - sorry siegbran (but thanks for the link).

It reminds me a lot of Moonbootica's DJ Sounds Good mix - eclectic, percussive electro-pop-house, only with Fedde's influence taking the place of, um, Ewan Pearson I guess was the reference point for Moonbootica at the time. Plus added latino-caribbean influences definitely. But the music is fun due to its reliable facility with a good riff and excellent layering and general post-boompty bounciness - the counter-rhythms really do feel like window-dressing surround the basic house thump, much in the way sceptics claim UK funky works. This is not a bad thing though - nothing wrong with a good house groove!

Correct, guys like Vato are coming from the electro house side but that's only one aspect of it, you also have DJs like Chuckie who come from the caribbean party scene - ten years ago that was all soca and hiphop with some UK garage imports thrown in, now those guys are also into electro house and baile funk and basline and everything else that works and those sets have much less of a 'house groove' vibe. Local Moroccan-born MCs and R&B singers here have also discovered that guesting on these 'dirty house' records is more lucrative than trying to sound like local clones of Jeezy and R Kelly, which is also an interesting development. Obviously every scene is different, the Spanish guys have more reggaeton and salsa, the French more african-sounding stuff (yes most of the Africanism project is dire tribal but there's some good stuff to) and, heh, tektonik, Italians seem to be into that Balkan beats thing. I don't claim to be a full expert on all this (I don't go clubbing as much as I used to) and I think the UK scene probably has more potential if only for its proven ability but I really see this more as one big pan-European movement - the reaction against the quite sonically uniform and segregated house, trance and techno scenes of the years before. A truly populist version of the whole Soulwax/Playgroup 'eclectic DJing' phenomenon too.

I'm in London really briefly for a business trip and want to go see some UK funky on friday - does anyone know a good source of info about what's on? Only thing I've spotted so far is something called "House Arrest" at club E3 with MA1, but I'm sure there must be more...

i am eagerly anticipating the explosion of this into the uk charts - and with it actual mp3s of tracks becoming available - when people get back from napa. i would also love to know how people find the time to listen to all these sets, but they are amazing, thanks for uploading them everyone who has. am intending to go to a funky rave soon, was going to go to one in dagenham at the weekend but a friend was putting on a rival night down the road from my flat

Was that the one on sat with Kyla and Crazi Cousinz? I wanted to go to that, but fly off too soon. Anyway I'm certain "do you mind" will crush the charts when it gets its release on Ministry this month...

very pleasingindeed! i just wish uptown didn't have a near monopoly on this stuff. great shop but their overseas shipping is crazy expensive and rhythm division seems to have vanished from the web. promising signs from juno download - i hope roska's mp3/wav releases prove to be the tip of the iceberg on that front.

ah! 'unfinished business' has clicked with me now, belatedly. tim was right about it suffering in isolation (though the isolation was probably my own) - sitting down, merely a clammy tap-drip schematical echoplex; out & about, why it sucks in its cheeks and struts like the music in naomi campbell's head! autechre i never knew ye.

nonetheless it is still quite pleasing that their follow-up, or at least the one footloose chooses to play, is a super cheesy west ldn wine bar groover.

Yeah "Unfinished Business" is a very perspectival tune - yeah when I was listening to this set last I was thinking that the tune makes more sense as "funky" if you train yr ears to the strut of the kickdrums. rtc did you hear Aphrodisiax's "Keep It Moving", which Footloose has played in previous weeks? That's still a bit of a headfuck but subtler and sexier than "Unfinished Business".

"Preacher's Daughter" is great! Such a perverse progression: starts off kinda straightforward vocal house, then the counter-snare comes in, and then that insane "together... together..." breakdown section with the rhythmic explosions and rave riffs and big bassline. Such a WTF moment.

"Whatever The Weather" (the other Aphrodisiax track from this week) strikes me as a very typical Bugz in the Attic kinda affair, although even they might blanch at the organ solo! Which is I guess what you mean by "super cheesy west ldn wine bar groover". I'm not sure if I made it to a wine bar during my trips to London. I went to bars certainly, and one was in West London, but i don't know if it meets the definition of "wine bar" - if it's basically the bar and a corridor with stools and everyone jammed in tight drinking cocktails or shots, it's just a "bar", right?

Anyway Footloose for once goes for a non-perverse transition playing it right after two Bugz remixes.

"Every Step (Arms Remix)" I still love you.

My "Sometimes I Wake Up Early In The Morning To Play My Con-Con-Congo" Facebook Group still only has four members, all of them ILX users... :-( Where is the groundswell of support.

Hard to imagine a vocal managing to prettify "Mr Bean", although i guess Lorraine Cato managed a similar feat on my beloved "Pulse X (Vocal Mix)". "Unfinished Business" would probably work with some kinda minimal dancehall-ish vocal. House diva possibly a bad idea.

i think both might work with someone like ny, who wouldn't prettify it so much as, um, icify it? talking of ny i really cannot get enough of her vocal on 'fallin' again' - when she starts riffing on "free" at the end is just, you know, tears unfrosting eyes

(i did have the exact same reservations as you about using it, actually, but i dont think modernity has furnished us with an equivalent term for the 'whatever the weather' type places, usually populated by funky-minded down-to-earth spanish and indeed, australian type folk. and lots of english too, tbf. but never russian. does anyone know what i'm on about.)

not so big on 'every step'. to me it has a sort of rng pointlessness that only melts away when the breakdown comes and the lady's accent goes overly british (you mooo me, my eyes if they shuh, woaaan stop ur touch etc), whereupon it then just becomes broken beat. which is more palatable for some reason. maybe i just find the sample wearying.

mr mathz' other tune is more classicist and is also extremely good. bit like the 'leader/what goes around' balance - would it be fair to say him and fuzzy logik are the the few who are internalizing funky's divergences rather than just doing their own thing? on a track to track basis, at least.

what about the 'oh na na na' vocal version by orthodox on the b-side of the mr bean 12"? i don't think i've seen anyone mention it. i like it, but i don't know much about recent dancehall so my standards could be low.

"mr mathz' other tune is more classicist and is also extremely good. bit like the 'leader/what goes around' balance - would it be fair to say him and fuzzy logik are the the few who are internalizing funky's divergences rather than just doing their own thing? on a track to track basis, at least."

Yeah I think this is right - probably Malice too.

I don't exactly have reservations about "wine bar" as a descriptor - although I've primarily seen it used on dissensus so I always initially hear it with an implied dissensian sneer. I'm just trying to visualise precisely what it refers to in my head. I don't think it works this way in Australia really - a "wine bar" here would more likely play something with a stronger veneer of respectability than "funky house" (in the conventional sense of the term) - perhaps Buddha Bar, or if they were going more uptempo they might plump for breakbeat. If I wanted funky house i'd go to either a big commercial club (like the ones in our city's casino complex) or to a hairdressing salon. In fact "hairdresser house" (as opposed to "haircut house") is a term I've used before to describe that kind of sound.

"Keen readers of music blogs and message boards that discuss the "hardcore continuum" in-depth and reference Foucault when talking about the latest song by Tempa T or some other incidental grime MC will know all about the "funky" scene currently engulfing the underground clubs and pirate radio stations of London. Those of you who have got real life friends and a social life probably won't."

Is the "Apple = Jon E Cash making house" argument run in this article and on Blissblog (presumably the former ripped it from the latter) on point? It doesn't seem quite right to me, but I can't put my finger on why.

Mind you Simon R extended it to Roska which just seems obviously wrong.

i think Jon E Cash's name is just being used as shorthand for 8-bar. the main points of comparison i think are the abstract use of texture, heavy bass and blocky approach to rhythm / tracks, but these are hardly rare tendencies in grime!

my issue is that this kind of analysis (x is like y times z / x is like y if it tried to be z) is a ridiculously simplistic way of communicating what makes music feel a certain way, its an issue i often have with music writing... too often reductive posing as complete analysis (with value judgement attached), it cannot do justice to emotional or visceral response. its escape from this tendency is one of the reasons i love a lot of Simon Reynolds old writing so much!

Ha ha some inadvertent astrology in that thread though. From yours truly:

Alternative: an R&B/garage/broken beat/house fusion a la Mis-Teeq's "Eye Candy" (the actual track) which strikes me as being simultaneously one of the most brazenly physical, most feminine, and most startlingly new-sounding things I heard of in '02. Although I never *did* find out who produced it (it was bizarrely and shamefully left off the Oz version of the album).

so the ukfunky.com mp3 shop is in full swing now, including 320 kbps versions of malice's 'gabryelle' refix and 'speechless' by dj mystery. i tried my luck last night and the transaction was smooth. hope they keep building up the catalogue and getting more labels on board.

i went to my first funky rave at the weekend btw. it was really super-awesome. everyone totally glammed up and really good vibes. bit school disco-ey at the start, everyone sort of...camped out around the edges of the dancefloor warily eyeing each other up, but it soon got packed. everyone went nuts for 'who's afraid of detroit' and 'my joy' but the moment when the dj dropped 'in the air' was OMG.

haha yeah the dress code in the email i got went on for a paragraph. no timberlands! no bapes! &c. club was nice, classy and glam (and clean! nice leather sofas to sit on) but not really flashy. everyone seemed to be drinking champagne. it's a monthly night i think, definitely recommend it. u need id though!

anyone keeping up with funky? should be moving into peak season for great UKG releases or more likely advance radioplay, but there's still a problem with Footloose archives, affecting (select?) overseas listeners only? - I re-test it weekly (RA link doesn't work either). Tim, is the Footloose archive working for you? if so, may be a U.S.-only thing... (yet Cameo archive works fine)

There's at least one new 2-hour Crazy Cousinz Rinse FM show, which they've put on Sendspace and linked from their MySpace blog. (I'd link directly, but MySpace is blocked from here.) It's good, as long as you can cope with the DJ chatter - which mainly consists of saying "Crazy Cousinz" a dozen times a minute for two hours....

Love the Marcus Nasty/Mac 10 mix on Rinse FM from a few weeks ago, though I wish the sound quality on the Rinse FM podcasts was better.

Esp. love the grimy section after the remix of "Work", esp. that mash of ravey/insane tracks around the thirty minute mark. Totally WTF material. I think they're Little Silver and Malice tunes mostly, based on the shout-outs.

Also that new Donaeo track at the 70 minute mark, he really is becoming the Lenky of funky. And how about that bizarre one at 85 with the technoid synth riffs, I'm not even sure how I'd describe it .

yeh i finally got the chance to hear the Marcus Nasty b2b Mak10 set in full, some of it is so next level. but maybe even more importantly for me the whole thing is balanced so well, really finely between the madness and rawness of grime invading and the sensuality of house. they even dropped Aaron Carl! at about +8! was feeling that

there is this point where (i think) Mak 10 drops a DOK tune into the mix with a vocal house bit, chopping it up, twisting the eqs and filters all over, it is just completely ridiculous

rinse fm have started a new regular (monthly?) funky night called beyond - went to the first last week, it was ok! great in places but not as glam or fun as the circle one, a bit too boys-standing-round-in-hoodies at the start, and 'in the air' was dropped like 3 times in an hour, but it got going pretty well and there's lots of potential there.

i tried to listen to the marcus nasty podcast but the bitrate is just too horrible. wtf is the point w/out bass.

yeh the DOK tune is crazy. he is a shockingly good producer imo, i am keen to hear him jump on anything at all really!

i don't see a problem with dubstep producers jumping on it, so long as its not the ones who jumped on dubstep in 2007! but i can't see the funky scene being subordinated to dubstep no matter what, so i am more of a live and let live perspective on that one. that track at 1hr18 on the Rinse podcast to me is dubstep-influenced, and im feeling that as an outer-reach of the sound.

but also i don't think its a huge worry cos dubstep already kind of has its own funky, house is really very integrated into it in parts, its just different strains and feelings of house i think, more deep, more detroit. people like Mala have been making crazy, percussion-led, bass heavy, deep house-influenced music for ages, and Anti-Social, Ramadanman, LD etc are all continuing to do so

also, bit of a tangent but hopefully no-one will object, some of the mad ravey stuff in dubstep i almost see as direct descendents of/torch-bearers for people like Adonis and Trax

OK! Hold up everyone thats been plugin me in this forum! Maximum boost for the support! If anyone has any questions regardin the funky movement.. let me knoo (includes trak names etc..)Anyways.. jus wanted to give u an update on the scene which has happend for a while bak naw but jus incase u didnt knoo.. i am naw a part ov a 2 man crew called FUNK FACTORY wid maself DJ Smoovie T wid DJ/Producer Scotty D!Scotty D pwas the one who produced the track "Liberty"And were both on Touch FM every sunday night 10-12am were u can catch us on www.touchfm.comLike i sed! Any info or anyfin jus holla..P.SI rememba somebody talking about that I Feel Remix by footloose! Its currently out on 12" So cop that naww!!!

that looks like it's part of a mixed album rather than a standalone unmixed single though...otherwise surely it'd be on 7digital and itunes. odd, but the proper release is definitely coming (and 'do you mind' will follow in jan)

sounds like a less grimey vibe than his rinse sets, also will be of some relief for those who take issue with the Rinse bitrates! i actually think the whole vibe benefits from that compression and poor quality, but either way this one is much crisper

yeh much as i'd love it to be otherwise i don't have any big hopes for seeing that LD mix anytime soon! dubplate scene and all that. its interesting hearing his take on the vocal. think it illustrates quite well what i was talking about upthread about the different takes on house in dubstep as against funky

I haven't been keeping up as much in the last few months, less because I've lost interest than because I'm still constantly replaying the stuff I have from earlier in the year and have yet to get bored of it.

I'm gonna try to catch-up over the next month so that I can do a year-end wrap up.

so the forthcoming geeneus album (!), volumes 1, really hits the spot - i wasn't especially looking for a funky artist album but this is a good mix of anthems ('yellowtail', 'emotions' and the 'night' rmx are all here), anthems-to-be ('saturday', also w/katy b) and deeper (!), housier cuts ('out of the future' is immense).

hope no-one minds the promo, but if anyone is in Bristol on Saturday please consider getting down to Take Five Cafe on Cheltenham Rd, got Mak 10 down there, £3 entry, big sound in a tiny basement, it'll be sick...

Marcus's most recent show (available in fairly decent quality here: http://www.sendspace.com/file/kqmjna) is INSANE - probably the most sustained attempt to make the funky = nu-grime equation. There are no vocal tracks, it's all hard as fuck quasi-dancehall/quasi-grime bangers, lots of MCs doing their business. Not my favourite Marcus funky house set ever (i'm sentimentally attached to all the old ones with Shantie on them) but this is essential for anyone curious about where this music is going. It's got that weird minimal-ish track we were talking about way upthread (it's the third track in the set) and it makes perfect sense here. There seems to be several distinct sub-trends emerging within the hard end of the scene, including:

1) weird minimal tracks a la the one I mention above2) Little Silver style grime bangers3) "Rising Sun" style dancehall-ish tracks4) cavernous tracks played on what sound like monster drum kits which in my head I'm dubbing "hard tribal" (see the track at 1 hour 17 minutes). These make me think of the scary end of pre-techstep jungle, stuff like the the Trace Remix of Babylon's "Splash".

That last strand is given a lot of airtime on the 1 October Rinse set, which resultingly doesn't sound terribly "grime" at all, although still hard as fucking nails for the most part.

Kode9 played a hyper intense hour of funky at FWD>> last night, large parts of it sounding like it was his own productions. dark, broken, clipped, percussive, edgy, analogue, housey beats. crazy stuff...

i did think there was gonna be a physical release but i haven't been in any record shops recently so who knows...there's definitely a digital one. R1 didn't playlist it though (unlike 'heartbroken' last yr)...maybe 'do you mind' will fare better in jan. so far the funky scene has been really astoundingly terrible at making tracks available.

oh, it transpires that dj ng's 'tell me' is on itunes/7digital (as is the crazy cousinz remix of the alesha dixon single), and perempay & dee's awesome 'time to let go' is on traxsource.com (but not 'in the air'?? no one i know has a full-length quality mp3 of 'in the air' yet)

not sure about that MC set with marcus nasty - some of the emceeing on there wasnt as good as i had hoped. jme sounded great but some of sharky majors emceeing was like he had been listening to nothing but 'i see girls' since hes been out of the scene.

not sure about that MC set with marcus nasty - some of the emceeing on there wasnt as good as i had hoped. jme sounded great but some of sharky majors emceeing was like he had been listening to nothing but 'i see girls' since hes been out of the scene.

i was about to say that shark major reading out a funky poem would be excellent lolz, but now i reflect pon it further he could do a nice line in that kinda quasi-mystical spoken word pulpit house one often comes across. (how good was the marcus bit in that set when he goes "yes, just give yourself to us, thats all we want. is you, for the night. your ears your mind. your body, your soul." btw <3<3<3)

really i couldn't disagree more about the mcing on that set - was loving it until jme & frisco came and buggered it up with their cluttery sodding "bars".

in general my current enthusiasm towards marcus' supposed nu-grime sets is somewhat parlous to say the least; the early november one without much mcing was tediously monochrome ("and this one's called... 'tribal congo'" YEAH NO REALLY IS IT??), but with the old garage guys on board this week, so so good all of a sudden. that bit at 75 mins where an okay hardhouse banton spodder comes on and one of them goes "THIS ONE'S SEXY!!" like, omg ur right why didn't you tell me that earlier! god i could barely hear it above the wonderful sound of some canadian junglist wanker's twatois flashcards flying out his hands halfway across the world.

quite funny also that even when the oldsters did get vaguely grimey as it were, riskgo's "ur the dolphin / i'm the shark / lost in the sea /sharks don't bark / ain't gotta ??? for no cutty sark /ur gonna die in the dark, die in the dark"in partic, it's a- still real silly, and b- "dying in the dark" almost somehow still feels like part of the housey vernacular, like sacrificing yourself on the sweaty altar of warehouse untz untz and whatnot rather than staying at home and raising a ribena to jme's pointless "buss your head at pro evo" lines. i take back everything i said about versatile and 'funky anthem' upthread; the alternative is too dull to bear.

Rtc what you on, Hard House Banton's "Reign" is massive! It reminds me of that old Sean Paul track from 2004, "Life's Not A Test" or whatever it was.

I agree. I don't want the MCing to become more like grime, I want it to maintain that slightly amateurish freshness. I like that Rankin' only has two raps (the one about the lady oozing sex appeal and the "there's no question of a doubt..." one, the latter of which he's been doing for at least 8 years!).

to some extent as much as I really like this set it also makes me nervous: it's the first time that the possibility of "funky house" losing the house and just becoming 2002-era proto-grime has seemed more than fanciful.

See also Spyro's "Woe", a decent track but just a bit too dry and desiccated, it's like it's come back in time from a future world where all the dubstep producers invaded funky and threw away the fun.

Still!

I think it's time to do some track IDs. Some of these have been popping up for ages:

- That bass monster with the sample that goes "Ah! Gotta reload!"- what's the name of that awesome D-Malice piano stomper (like a beefed up "Visions") with the horns and the ridiculous syncopated climax?- the actually funky bass riffin' one at about 34 min into this set with the ostentatious bongo percussion on top- that totally insane syncopated one at 40 minutes with the Low Deep strings- the eerie, slightly evil one at 46 min that's been around forever.- the Cadenza+Bounty Killa one that comes on immediately afterwords- the massive string slammer at 50 min (this part of the set is basically fabulous. "I wanna see you go down low! I wanna see you go down low! I wanna see you go down low! Low low low low low!")- the anthem at the one hour mark that's been around for ever with the lovely horns and the big bass explosions- the one chord house anthem immediately afterwards, a bit Fuzzy Logickish, surely this is the peak of the set??? They big up Spyro while it's playing but I'm doubtful that it's him.

@ 14, 22 & (the doneao at) 33 mins; you might as well give me track id's for these since we're all here.

@ 48 mins, can't quite decide if it's a rapid or an air france riddim but the bounty killer sample one kills it just like how 'twiss' did and people should totally make more n more n more of them, however weak the gesture is really and truly. i dimly recall an elephant man one once as well, where/what was that?

@ 83 mins, plz oh plz can they release 'sirenz' vocalled just as it is there with the "r u ready 4 the sirenz, sirenz" and the joe le taxi singsong, that would be amazing ta very much.

@ 84 that cooly g abstract wobbler coming in briefly, yeah i like it too; 'dis gyal' sounded great on footloose this week as well. as with the roska refix though, i phear the spectre of overmuch bleep n bass. (roska's 'bounce', also on that footloose show, is different gravy and redeems everything though.)

'reign' is as victim to context as much as any of these tracks though really. fair play to you if you reckon you could pluck it out with adoration intact from, ooh i dunno, let's say a dark, broken, clipped, percussive, edgy, analogue kode 9 set cos i sure couldn't.

hey btw what's that unarguably sexy massiveattackey banton tune with the wispy ladymurk vox going "insane i know... could not be true... he la ta, la ta he le ta, le ta"? (it's somewhere on clip 1 on his myspace.) for, like, it as if her love is a handful of ballbearings she's let fall onto the floor, and trail away innit.

Ha I almost posted before, "I have no desire to listen to another Kode9 'funky' set." I will always check for dude for his "21st Century Skank" mix way back when but at this point it's like DJ/Rupture playing grime. of course the previous kode 9 funky set was on rupture's show...

Anyway fair point re "Reign" but I think a good half of non-vocal funky falls into this category. Also (sshh) I do like some dubstep and "Reign" would be the kind of dubstep I would like if it was a dubstep tune. It kinda sounds like Mala.

I think that Hard House Banton tune you mention is "Turn It Around" - does it go something like "may I believe you / what you're saying is true / getting insane i know / turn it around-round-round-round-round. And then the "he la ta" bit you mention is them cutting up her previous vocal I think. I love that tune! Bass is murderous but still so sexy.

Just the whole "dilettante of raw vital street music from around the world recontextualises genre as the momentary current incarnation of the angry spirit of cross-cultural street-level insurgency" vibe. From the get-go the music is being positioned as being a nice fresh alternative to dubstep, which is fine except that once you start seeing this music in dubstep terms the silly/cheesy/pop/fun factor quickly gets sucked out. When he was on rupture's show (and there's a reason that it was him rather than say footloose or even marcus) he was very quick to claim that this "wasn't house music", "more like soca meets grime." Hence tunes like Spyro's "Woe" which I bet Kode9 loves. His own "funky" tune was even pastier. Props to Kode9 for recognising the vitality of this music faster than most, but ultimately his broader aesthetic is one that I feel is at odds with the healthy development of this genre.

It's the kind of approach to the genre which inevitably turns it into just another serious anti-populist form of post-jungle UK beat music. I don't want funky to be about twenty angry guys in a basement staring at the floor while they meditate on the bass weight.

although it could really do with some sort of chorus (i do find that with a lot of funky vocals the melodies could do with some more space - the singing just never seems to end) katy b's as i do should be massive.

omg that's exactly what melissa and i were saying after the first beyond night (in comparison to the circle night we'd been to before that) - it was so exactly like fwd for ages, boys in hoodies standing moodily around the dancefloor, only melissa and i making any effort to dance. to be fair the dancefloor did get going eventually, when groups of girls started arriving, but the contrast to the circle night was pretty stark - there, it was pure good vibes from the get-go, a really people had made an effort to glam up and they were there to dance and be social, not to look moody. i enjoyed the music at both but circle had an innate embrace of housiness (eg playing 'my joy', 'who's afraid of detroit?' etc) which beyond didn't (consequently the DJs at the latter played 'in the air' like three times in 2 hours).

i haven't been to beyond since though this isn't a deliberate decision. the best funky-affiliated nights i've been to are things like night slugs and wifey, which mix it in with bassline, ghettotech etc (and a bit of grime).

the fwd way is prob inevitable to an extent though given how tied into the grime/dubstep infrastructure it's becoming...from what i hear kode9's fwd set yesterday was really fun and awesome though, so i'm not sure there's that much to fear. yet.

I'm not sure thats really a fair comparison. I mean, doesn't being the same city, playing on the same pirate radio station, playing in the same clubs and being on the same line ups mean that there is a bit of difference between rupture and 9. Don't you mean that he doesnt seem to share your populist ideology? Aren't you the journalist 'dilettante of cheesy street music from around the world recontentextualising genre as momentary incarnation of pop spirit'?

Sorry, still talking to Tim. Another thing that confuses your rupture/9 comparison, is that rupture spent a long time on his blog slagging off dubstep for similar reason you're slagging of 9. I think you're probably reading a bit much into his appearance on rupture's show and that 'soca grime' quote. But that statement was is actually pretty prophetic of the way Marcus' sets have developed in the last few months, him dropping the 'house' bit of 'funky house' and people talking about 'funky' being 'grime in disguise'. I'm not sure you can blame 9 for that.

"Aren't you the journalist 'dilettante of cheesy street music from around the world recontentextualising genre as momentary incarnation of pop spirit'?"

Probably, but the difference is that nobody takes me seriously. Also, my way tends to result in better music. You can take Loefah and I can take Quentin Harris (but actually the above's not an accurate summation of my taste w/r/t funky - I've been repping for Roska and Little Silver etc. as hard as anyone in this thread). Sure Kode9 was prescient w/r/t his soca-grime comment (although this in itself was pretty obvious at the time, it's the "not house" bit I think is more interesting). But he was also prescient when he was making "death garage" back in 2000. That doesn't mean those tracks weren't pretty dire though! And they pretty clearly set the trend for a whole slather of mediocre dubstep b/w 2002 and 2006. Not that this is Kode9's fault, I doubt more than a handful of dubstep producers have ever heard his early work. But it's pretty clear that this mindset - that whole post-techstep fear of the future / technology takes control narrative - is inimical to a good deal of what makes funky great music.

Anyway I don't mean to hate, his remix of Geiom's "Reminiscin" is one of my favourite dubstep tunes of 2008, I adore about 70% of Memories of the Future, and obv. he's done heaps of great things over the years. In a lot of ways it's great he's into funky - by and large he's always had great ears I reckon.

DJ/Rupture disliking dubstep (well, until Uproot, which ironically is pretty good) actually fits my comparison! Because the context of Kode9 playing funky was him saying he feels uninspired by dubstep having become too, hard, too masculine etc.

Both these guys are very self-conscious about not simply becoming The Bug, they want to maintain a connection to street music in its genuineness and wholeness - on Gold Teeth Thief (still a great mix) Rupture obviously wasn't afraid of R&B vocals and street rap and the like, it wasn't like he was committing a wholesale plunder of street music sounds so as to recontextualise them in indie friendly contexts.

Nonetheless, despite their best intentions neither Rupture nor Kode9 can prevent their curatorial hands from turning everything they touch into something just a little more serious or worthy than it was before. It's something I'm mindful of in writing about this stuff - but again, the difference is nobody really takes me seriously.

"Nonetheless, despite their best intentions neither Rupture nor Kode9 can prevent their curatorial hands from turning everything they touch into something just a little more serious or worthy than it was before. It's something I'm mindful of in writing about this stuff - but again, the difference is nobody really takes me seriously."

Thats a bit of a cop out isn't it. Lots of people read your stuff Tim. Of course, mainly the chattering classes of the music press/blogosphere looking for a hot tip, but not just those. Your writing on ukg and funky is great. But doesn't your informed and intelligent writing have exactly the same effect i.e. makes underground pop more worthy than it was before, forcing people to take it more seriously. Is your issues here that you are a popist and accusing them of being rockists, if i'm understanding that idea correctly.

Well, thanks Jon. I guess when I say people don't take what I say seriously, I mean that my writing doesn't become part of a feedback loop that affects the music itself, except in a very diffuse sense. Whereas if Kode9 gets dubstep fans listening to the grimmer end of funky (and certainly this is as much as we can hope for, already a lot of these types draw distinctions between Apple, Roska etc. on the one hand and Crazi Cousinz etc. on the other), inevitably there'll be effects on the music in terms of the tracks that get produced, the tracks that get big, the nights that are successful etc.

Yes, my writing may have the effect of making people take this music more seriously, or at least I'd like to hope so. But I also like to think that it invites people to take seriously music that doesn't necessarily satisfy the familiar "tests" of seriousness - moodiness, "deepness", a general air of seriousness that characterises even the best dubstep (and I should stress again that i've loved heap of dubstep this year). I wouldn't consider myself to be approaching this music in a popist way because I'm not only interested in this stuff insofar as it intersects with crossover pop music ("Do You Mind", "Bongo Jam", perhaps "In The Air" if Perempae gets lucky); rather I like to think that if my writing prevents a certain "notion" of funky, the distance between the notion and the real thing (or, to put it another way, the distorting effect of my ideological imprint) is relatively minimal. That is, I want to try to connect with funky exactly as it is - populist and underground, traditional and avant, anthemic and minimal, fluffy and aggressive... That might make me rather uncritical, but it's motivated less by ideology and more by the fact that I genuinely do enjoy the full range of this stuff.

Have you actually spoken to Kode about this Tim? Because I think you're over extrapolating from one, early, radio interview and his position on the music is significantly different from that you're very negatively portraying.

inevitably there'll be effects on the music in terms of the tracks that get produced, the tracks that get big, the nights that are successful etc.

fwiw i don't think there's any reaction against the 'poppier' or cheesier end of this at any of the nights i've been to - really wish i'd gone to fwd on sunday so i could report back for myself, but people i know who ~love~ the crazy cousinz end of funky also loved kode9's set, so i don't think there's much to worry about at all. i can possibly see it moving away from the housier end of things but that might be more due to an influx of djs and producers who aren't that well-versed in it, rather than anything more uh philosophical.

"omg that's exactly what melissa and i were saying after the first beyond night (in comparison to the circle night we'd been to before that) - it was so exactly like fwd for ages

isn't that exactly the purpose of Beyond though? Putting it in the West End, putting Kode on the bill, with all the clear resonances of early FWD and Speed parties. This is in comparison to Rinse's Incognito, which was last held in Gants Hill and was, by all reports, obviously, quite a different demographic...

"Have you actually spoken to Kode about this Tim? Because I think you're over extrapolating from one, early, radio interview and his position on the music is significantly different from that you're very negatively portraying."

May well be the case. If he's playing vocal tracks now I'll take it all back. Having said that, the very fact that they're trying to make a funky night with resonances of early FWD and Speed tends to make me think that the dynamic i'm imagining isn't so imaginary.

Reverend, "light" funky dj sets can be a bit misleading - in my experience when the DJs have a consciously lighter style it means they play a lot of US vocal house, rather than, say, lots of Crazi Cousinz remixes. Most of the DJs I've heard who focus on UK material play pretty much the full spectrum.

In the former style, I have a good Perempay set which I'm trying to find a link for.

who's 'they' though tim, this is Geeneus' night and was filled with DJs like MA1, the Circle boys, and gee is very keen to keep funky vocal and feminine. Kode was merely the warm up DJ, when no one was there.

now, having no-one there does have the resonance of FWD, i'll give you that, but the reason for the dancefloor space is because (i'm told) the funky lot dont come out until much later. by the mid and end the night got much busier, more vocal and housey.

w/r/t this stuff I'm totally hostage to what you guys tell me. My concerns are more bound up in how this stuff gets received - every dubstep fan I know over here (and there are millions of them now) who I ask about funky gives me the same spiel: "oh yeah Kode9 is into that right? I don't like vocal shit but that Apple guy is good..." Probably it's even worse over here than in the UK because those dubstep fans are comfortably insulated from the reality of funky.

Yeah that Geeneus mix looks great, a nice cross-section of the scene, and I'm pleased he's got "We Belong To The Night" on there.

I only realised recently that the percussive sound that zooms through "Am I" intermittently is meant to sound like a horse galloping. It made me think of reynolds comparing funky's rhythms unfavourably to a horse's gait.

also though the overwhelming dominance of a certain musical ideology? or rather exclusion of another

about the first point, i wonder whether maybe funky has a much more significant base and infrastructure already that perhaps isn't as vulnerable to an influx of demands or expectations? i really hope so

Because the (current) dubstep audience (which is basically the late nineties/early 00s d&b audience) is bigger than the funky audience, at least in terms of actually buying records/mp3s, and could very easily overwhelm the current funky auience simply by selectively endorsing the funky they like. I think it's already very easy to see how, with enough interest from that audience, funky could become just an endless succession of heavy instrumental tribal cuts, much like the Distance/Rusko/Caspa intersection only with the jamaican reference points replaced by african reference points. It's already happened to jungle and to dubstep...

Not to put words into his mouth but I think this is what r|t|c means when he mentions the ambivalence he feels w/r/t "Feeline (VIP Mix)" and other self-consciously heavy funky tracks.

BTW I was also basing my assessment of Kode9's approach to funky on the rather oppressive dystopian track titchy posted the youtube link for upthread, which seemed in accordance with the line he was pushing on Rupture's show. Are his sets not like that? (genuinely curious) What does he play?

"Let's get real tim, the vast majority of dubstep fans have only a small or limited interest in funky, despite the interest from some of the more visible dubstep heads."

Wouldn't this have been true of d&b fans and dubstep three years ago? I'm just saying history has a tendency of repeating itself in this area.

"if funky is getting darker, it's because the bandwagon jumping from london grime producers and MCs, rather than the global dubstep scene."

Yes I agree with this. I'm not trying to blame dubstep for funky getting darker, which for the most part I enjoy and approve of. There's a difference between the darkness of, say, Little Silver's "Seasons" and the darkness of the Kode9 track titchy posted upthread.

Eh, I reckon I've been pretty careful to say that I think a lot of Kode9 as a producer at several points in this thread. But no I've heard "2Bad" a fair amount, though "Bad" much more often. I meant "sounds" as in "sounds like a pretty good stab at funky-not-funky."

Marcus' show on Wednesday night was an "emotional" set for the ladies, which in Marcus terms basically means he intersperses every hard track with a vocal number. Includes n astonishing new Crazi Cousinz track which is a) clearly their response to the success of stuff like Hard House Banton's "Sirens" and b) amazing and much better than "Sirens" et. al. Built around a xylophone hook that keeps getting more intricate as the track progresses.

Also props to Spyro who obviously is responsible for the track I described upthread as:

"the one chord house anthem immediately afterwards, a bit Fuzzy Logickish, surely this is the peak of the set??? They big up Spyro while it's playing but I'm doubtful that it's him."

BUT the most amazing track on this is the absolute stunner at about the 9 minute mark that sounds like a cross between Roska and Danny Weed and Bump & Flex circa 2001 - yeah, I bet this is one for the ladies! Anyway this is officially my new "funky is the future" standard-bearer track for the next few days.

Marcus does his best to recreate the whole Footloose-patented funky mise en scene by mixing into an ace vocal track with this choice lyric: "You and me, I don't give a fuck about she..."

I think the key issue for me is whether the tunes retain that kind of joyful ravey vibe. I'm not really interested in moody funky. Like the three tunes I mention above (the Crazi Cousinz one, the Spyro one, the one that sounds like Danny Weed) are all really exciting and uptempo even when they're a little bit aggressive - on the last the sample goes "Time to get nasty!" (which may or may not be done specially for Marcus's dub) but it's a bit of a comedy moment as much as anything else. And the Crazi Cousinz tune is just so fiercely uplifting (I reckon Ronan would like it incidentally). The really hyper vocal tunes (stuff like "Falling" and "As I") get this vibe so effectively through their vocals but that's only one way to achieve it, and i like the way that very different types of tunes can reach toward the same kind of vibe. And it's such an exciting vibe! Not being into this stuff strikes me as a bit of a failure of taste tbh.

At the end of the day though I think there are just too many people who like stuff to be pointlessly "moody" (and not good-moody like, say, Hard House Banton's "Turn It Around", a marvelous lovesick vocal track). It'll start to take its toll eventually.

"At the end of the day though I think there are just too many people who like stuff to be pointlessly "moody". It'll start to take its toll eventually."

im not sure that the threat is as big as you imply, i do share your thoughts to a certain extent, but to play devil's advocate...

funky seems to have a quite huge and relatively stable infrastructure of promoters and raves, and it seems to me that really the key is what happens there... djs and producers must be making much more cash off of raves than records... bookings, dubplate sales etc, and thats what i would think would most likely drive changes to the main thrust of the sound. it just doesn't seem like boomkat selling 12s and apple getting loads of forum / blog adulation for whatever reason is gonna change that. surely the real threat is not people who want it moody or deep but those who want it aggy, if 2-step's trajectory is any indication? you listen to what most promoters or producers from within the scene are saying and the fear is of kids with attitudes and too many mc's taking over, not too much self-conscious moodiness / desire for 'deep' vibes

it also raises something which i've considered from time to time... the extent to which widely visible internet platforms (blogs, popular web mags, forums etc) can be taken to reflect the spirit of any given scene or 'the times' as it were... or whether they often present a skewed reflection of the way things are happening in clubs or scenes or whatever. i make my way to a fairly broad range of places and parties and i find that very rarely are the experiences i have there reflected by the buzz around them or the most visible 'spokespersons' of those scenes if you know what i mean. i guess what im saying in that is that 'moody' scenes and people are probably massively over represented on the internet... from being out and about in London it seems to me that relatively speaking people who only like it heads down in a club are very very few and far between

I think I agree with Benjamin here, and in any case I can think of pretty solid commercial reasons why promoters would prefer a scene dominated by uplifting, fun, girl-friendly records than one dominated by moody blokes nodding their heads.

That said most dance genres to tend towards the latter after they get to a certain age but I can't see that happening here for a good couple of years or so.

Some of those vocals and beats on the last Marcus Nasty set are pretty bland. There is practically no vocal science in the songs, no edge, which wouldnt matter if the songs were any good, but most of them just aren't. I wish funky had a 'heartbroken', perhaps that vocal on hard house bantons blog which i dont know the name of (2.08 on the first track on his blog. . name anyone?) which i love, because most of the vocals I'm hearing are just nothing, compared to say the classics of 2 step. I was pretty disappointed by some of the beats as well. I'm not hearing the 'ravey joyfulness' at all. I'm hearing ultrablandness.

Well the moody tracks I'm talking about are also "aggy" tracks - only "deep" in the sense of not being cheesy (cf. "deep" funky tracks from the more relatively more conservative end of the scene e.g. Perempay's "Hypnotic").

"I think I agree with Benjamin here, and in any case I can think of pretty solid commercial reasons why promoters would prefer a scene dominated by uplifting, fun, girl-friendly records than one dominated by moody blokes nodding their heads."

I hope you guys are right. But I ran this line for a long time with garage.

I think the issue is that promoters driven by commercial concerns can always just switch over to R&B and house if they need to. And the audiences for the lighter end of funky will for the most part happily follow if funky starts getting too masculine. After all, there's much less difference between vocal funky and regular vocal house than there was between 2-step and vocal house or 2-step and R&B.

Also one that has slowly become a sentimental favourite is the bumping one that goes "you know you wanna dance, get your back up off the wall... hhhavveeaadddriinnnnk... you know you wanna boogie, got yourself a brand new hoodie, and you know you're looking good, G, looking good, G, looking good, G..." What's that called again?

i make my way to a fairly broad range of places and parties and i find that very rarely are the experiences i have there reflected by the buzz around them or the most visible 'spokespersons' of those scenes if you know what i mean. i guess what im saying in that is that 'moody' scenes and people are probably massively over represented on the internet... from being out and about in London it seems to me that relatively speaking people who only like it heads down in a club are very very few and far between

Interesting point because it depends what you want to measure their representation against. if you threw the net wide enough in London, you'd catch thousands of terrible wine bars playing pop, Ritzi-style clubs aimed at hen do's, student rock nights etc. Thing is no one really blogs about these kinds of experiences, but then you need to ballance that against the over representation of rock and pop in the music press and the under representation of underground sounds in those mags. so perhaps blogs are just working to redress the commercial bias of the media.

On another note, re Tim's point above, the vocal side of funky is coming on nicely. Princess "Frontline" is a persy, as is "In the Air." And i've been all over Kyla remix since April. I much prefer Marcus Nasty sets when he's with Quincy and is playing vocal stuff too.

That's the thing about close genres and how they interact: to me funky is filling several different needs right now. it's serving both London grime fans and some of the dubstep headz' with danceability and feminine vocal pressure, two things their respective genres forgot about.

I like Quincy because he's such a party time guy, I like how he toasts even when he has nothing to say.

The problem with the Rankin'-only sets is that when Rankin' has nothing to say he just shuts up for long stretches, over tracks that really need an MC to work. And then half the time he just recites his lines as if he's passing time.

I still think his best moment over funky (that i've heard at least - I should stop acting like an omniscient expert) was his set with Shantie, especially the middle section where they traded tracks back and forth over "Gabryelle (Refix)" and "Rising Sun" and the like.

"I think the issue is that promoters driven by commercial concerns can always just switch over to R&B and house if they need to. And the audiences for the lighter end of funky will for the most part happily follow if funky starts getting too masculine. After all, there's much less difference between vocal funky and regular vocal house than there was between 2-step and vocal house or 2-step and R&B."

this is definitely a good point. and if some producers are alienated into moving further towards trad house in reaction to the onset of the grimey stuff then that perpetuates it. time will tell i guess, just got to enjoy the balance while it (if it!) lasts

shame to hear that about Mak 10's tune, i'm quite surprised, he seems very keen on the softer and vocal sides of house, but there you go

"no one really blogs about these kinds of experiences, but then you need to ballance that against the over representation of rock and pop in the music press and the under representation of underground sounds in those mags. so perhaps blogs are just working to redress the commercial bias of the media."

indeed, there was no negative judgement in what i said, i too think its good that there are outlets for different ways of looking at the world. i was just saying that the looming threat of the shadowy downcast masses may not be as significant as the internet might suggest!

i dont entirely buy the dark music always = unhappy people, argument though. often very unhappy people like shimmery, throwaway pop because it helps them forget. but that doesn't mean they're happy people to begin with.

and similarly people like dark music because it's exciting or has an element of seriousness to it, but that doesn't mean they're intrinsically unhappy. i'm very happy when a big bassline drops!

"i dont entirely buy the dark music always = unhappy people, argument though. often very unhappy people like shimmery, throwaway pop because it helps them forget. but that doesn't mean they're happy people to begin with."

I absolutely agree with that. Having said that there's a certain vibe to dancefloors playing dark/heavy/muscular that tend to be.... dark, heavy and muscular!

D&B nights and the more one-note dubstep nights actually strike me as quite cheerful. Lots of crowing when the tracks get rewound etc. Esp. with those kind of dubstep nights (playing Caspa style stuff) it kind of annoys me because I can't connect with it much and everyone else enjoying themselves so ostentatiously makes me feel a bit resentful.

"shame to hear that about Mak 10's tune, i'm quite surprised, he seems very keen on the softer and vocal sides of house, but there you go"

"i dont entirely buy the dark music always = unhappy people, argument though. often very unhappy people like shimmery, throwaway pop because it helps them forget. but that doesn't mean they're happy people to begin with."

yeh absolutely, of course. i suppose with regard to my earlier statement read 'moody people' as 'people who like to listen to moody music', without intended judgement on their psychological states or the complex reasons that they're drawn to those experiences or sounds

Also one that has slowly become a sentimental favourite is the bumping one that goes "you know you wanna dance, get your back up off the wall... hhhavveeaadddriinnnnk... you know you wanna boogie, got yourself a brand new hoodie, and you know you're looking good, G, looking good, G, looking good, G..." What's that called again?

anyway, marcus' sets have indeed been getting increasingly monochromatic. the b2b with mak10 had (to my ears) a near perfect balance - precarious with all the different elements checking and building on each other. but you could already hear the momentum shifting. the mc one was exciting as an experiment but if that becomes the norm it'll kill off a lot of what drew people there in the first place.

interestingly, roska said on the funky forum that he didn't like that set at all. also that that he regretted making a few tunes that were too grimey and plans to head further back into house territory. understandable given the deluge of spare, grimey tracks recently. some of the new stuff is just starting to remind me of something like "straight" by mondie. remember that one? the dullest, most stripped down grime track ever. and MCs loved it so much that they put out something like three 12"s of vocal versions.

still, i'm loving lots of it, just mostly when it's all thrown together and all the different styles are playing off of each other over the course of a set.

"just got to enjoy the balance while it (if it!) lasts"

exactly. people making this "funky will be good when..." argument are already missing it.

So, that Geeneus album then. I wasn't expecting to hear such a range of influences - at times, I can hear echoes of early 90s Strictly Rhythm and Sheffield bleep-n-bass, for instance. "As I" is my clear favourite, while the Benga remix comes as a slight let-down as he doesn't really do that much with it compared to the original. As for the mix CD: 31 tracks in 60 minutes is rushing it a bit, but I like the wide range of styles, and at least he slows down for long enough to give "In The Air" a bit of breathing space.

feeling Turn It Around majorly, very big vibes on that, seems like that vocal could be quite anthemic. so ravey, which is interesting... don't think i've heard anything so ravey from funky yet, only one that comes close is that Scotty D tune with the 'Destruction keeps happening" vocal

most people will know Mozart i guess it seems like its been getting hammered by quite a few djs

It’s more techy than I would have thought (plus there is deep house on it as well), but they are primarily a techno forum so that’s no surprise. How do you guys on here think it sits with the rest of the sound?

That doesn't seem that far away from a usual funky set once you get over the relative lack of vocal tunes. Also I'm assuming this is an ID for the ace funky version of "Erotic Illusions" I've been hearing of late.

I saw Marcus Nasty at aka for the rinse night recently and he was playing pretty much all stuff from last spring... On the other hand that's probably because it wasn't a proper funky night. Dunno, doesn't seem to have been much more of the good stuff since last summer though - just novelty dance tunes.

'Inflation' is almost like a tighter relative of 2-Step/UKG's 'Endorphins'. The beat is hugely propulsive, largely down to the snare pattern (first hit is on the first beat of the bar), and the track has a huge amounts of vibez and tension.

Spot on, "propulsive" is precisely the word. There's a sense in which it really perfects (in the sense of intensifying it to a point it's difficult to imagine bettering) the vibey energy of the funky's snare heavy sound without actually having to go down the grime route (the easiest way to know that someone is full of shit w/r/t funky is that they only like post-"Seasons" tunes that emphatically adopt grime/dubsteppy rhythmic ideas - now obv. "Seasons" is classic, but I like the way "Inflation" feels incredibly energetic but not at all aggressive).

titchy might be thinking (...) of kentphonik's sultry 'sunday showers', or (as noted by prancehall) akefe iku's 'mirror dance', both of which could be seen as jazzier 'inflation' xylobites. wrongly.

not to k-punkture the polemic and all but shamefully i must admit that the nomenclature does also hold a certain allure - what mightve merely been a rote afro bubbler now looms with vague zeitgeist doom, absurdly escalating and fluttering up like an exploded suitcase of worthless trillion-dollar zimbabwean bills. feels crafty! the credit crunch ep from which it is supposedly taken will mercifully over-egg that notion though.

barely inflected “quality” productions so full of “soul” that there was no room left for a tune, so “deep” that all topographical dynamism gets smothered, all made by “cats” so jive that a positive reaction from plebian suburban, adolescent, gay, drug-using and/or female audiences would be rejected with distaste even if it was possible.

come to think of it though - i do like that recessionista waffle in terms of localising the proto-everything idealisation of funky. when else was house, bleep (i fought roska but couldnt ever rule him out), rnb (magic touch pro's 'signed and sealed', that 'sexy sixty seconds' one - shouldnt someone be mentioning these?), ragga and (oh yes) acid jazz all at play but the early 90s - grimness, pirate radio, south london, a general rebirth of uk ownbrand music of all stripes, all of that. context music! just er, substitute the bongo for the breakbeat. soul 2 soul woman's daughter winning x-factor IT IS A PORTENT DON'T U SEE

what mightve merely been a rote afro bubbler now looms with vague zeitgeist doom

ha this is actually totally right! there's definitely a kind of menace in the way it builds and builds. roska mixes it into 'sunday showers' on his fact mix, it's definitely a reply of sorts to it, the stabby strings as well as the xylophone riff. and one of those mr mathz tracks also has xylophone action, truly it is the sound of 09.

also feeling jalla's 'turbulence', which uses 'who's afraid of detroit?' as a jump-off point for a lovely zig-zagging riff.

a heads-up - www.invasionrecords.co.uk now has an mp3 store - pick up the crop for me right now is 'hips'...

Now that I'm in London i really want to go to one of those club E3/Stratford/Dagenham style funky raves rather than centrally located dubsteppy things. Anyone know a good source of info about them? Might go to FWD on sunday though...

circle events are on hiatus for 6 months but this is their adults only side project - they're doing a night tomorrow, had contemplated trying to do both it and night slugs but i have a feeling that won't happen.

Fuzzy Logick has some great new tracks, typically in a billion different styles. "Roots" is a ridiculously intense asymmetrical piano stomper, a similar blunt-axe syncopated groove to "Twiss". Meanwhile another tune which I think is called "In The Morning" is an insane vocal anthem, massive bouncy beat, enormous synthesiser spurts and a fabulous diva vocal. It's very freestyle or early Jam & Spoon.

Really enjoying Marcus's 7th January set too. Would love an ID on the compulsive latin-ish track with the cut-up vocals that comes after Mak 10's boring stomper at about the 66 minute mark. It's only marginally less aggressive than the Mak 10 track, but somehow falls just on the right side of sexy.

kylas do you mind is getting a lot of attention now its being re-released.... i dont think its happening really but if they get her some more decent songs, she might actually become a bit of a pop star.

do you guys have links for those podcasts? think im about ready to hear another Marcus Nasty show!

In The Morning is getting a lot of love, reckon it could do pretty well if its well handled. Freestyle is very true. The more time goes by the more I feel that Fuzzy Logik has a vibe most of the new uk producers don't and that I wish they did... that ability to walk the line between a melodic and evocative house sound and complete weirdness and ruffness, while being distinctly UK and fresh. things seem quite polarised in the trickle of new stuff im hearing coming from most... exceptions are there but fewer than would be good

MNs show tonight was really good. that fuzzy logik one thats kinda like funky-gone-80s electro soul was the best of the lot but i liked that kanye cover too and there was another track that had an almost live broken beat drum loop going on that got quite a few rewinds (i love that rankin has maybe only 5 verses).

yeh he is, i was enthused from hearing a great remix by him today of Floetry - Say Yes, but in fact checking back on his myspace it seems that he errs more to the grimey side of things than i remembered

hi guys, I'm interested in this funky house music. could you recommend me some mixes that's perfect to be my gateway? i've downloaded a marcus nasty mix from FACT but the sound quality is unbelievably crap.

well they have pretensions towards being commercial so it would be fine with me for it to be reflected in the bitrate. I don't think they're completely listenable, put any sort of volume on them and the bass sounds like complete ass.

did that come out already? looking forward to picking it up, some great tracks on there. i think the one you mention is Ill Blu. i'm pretty sure the clips on Roska's myspace appear in the order that the producers are listed judging by the production on them

yeh too many releases getting pushed back, but Roska seems quite efficient relatively. hopefully it'll be out soon! in other exchange news Lil Silva is selling new mp3s through his myspace at £4 a pop! which is a touch steep i would say

"Cool, was v curious about that one. I like that middle section of the mix a lot because it feels very UK but without going the obvious route of crap grime vocals/chants or harsh synths as a signifier."

― Mirror-spangled elephant head (J@cob)

yeh there is definitely a thread out there of deep dark and hypnotic uk stuff, taking cues i guess from Dennis Ferrer and Objektivity and such, but developing into a distinctly uk sound. i am definitely keen, and even keener when that rolling vibe is combined with some slightly odder or sourer elements / melodies or vocals. that Hard House Banton mix of Turn It Around is a good example, and some of the stuff D Malice is playing / producing. this set although old now has some big tunes in this vein - D-Malice b2b Twista @ Deja Vu FM (26-10-2008)

on another note its interesting how Hard House Banton's stuff is turning really rushy and euphoric, pure 3am bliss material, detroity synth stabs and loopy vocals, deep subby bass. its funny cos all these nights are booking him up apparently expecting and promoting 'grime in disguise' but must be getting quite a different thing out of him. Dubplate Wonder has got so many phenomenal unreleased tunes too, the vibes on his stuff are crazy

Uptown has the most concentrated funky selection in the centre, and gets some stuff the others don't. but bm-soho is increasingly good on the UK stuff, and has a far far superior house section in general, its always got loads of heavy stuff from all sides of house (plus dubstep, grime, bassline downstairs). they do those funky CDRs too

i've never actually made it to Rhythm Division's physical shop, it being a bit of a mission, but they seem to have a good range in now

They have been 64kbps, but they're in mono, which means that effectively they are 128kbps. The station broadcasts in mono over the FM dial, as have most pirates over the years, so not much to worry about.

The lastest Marcus Nasty set (Feb) is acually 160kbps and mono, so is 320 quality. The difference is not really worth worrying about tbh.

This is awesome. I really love these sort of ultra-cheesy and brazen attempts to start dance crazes. In years to come there'll be a thread where we happily reminisce about DIY funky videos featuring people dancing in formation.

that 'our father' there bears quite the resemblance to the admittedly less evocatively titled 'to be vocalled soon i hope' tune on dj ng's page mentioned way upthread; both in turn remind me of elephant man's 4ever fabulous 'can't stop we now' from 2003, which married that year's sense of triumph with an uncontrollable welling-up of a vague melancholy it knew not, and which has also just given me an unrelated and undesired libertines earworm. bah.

also love 'bounce' on roska's myspace. bit underwhelming in demo form there though, footloose played a better one a while ago i'm sure.

Ha I love "Can't Stop We Now" but i'll have to listen to everything again to see such a link.

Does anyone think "In The Morning" might become a moderate-sized hit? it reminds me of Architechs' "Bodygroove" for some reason.

Anyway I love, it's so irrepressible and fun and feel-good but (unusually for a big vocal anthem) with a really cool beat.

I am sympathetic to jacob's complaint upthread that the scene is a bit bipolar in terms of anthems vs bangers. 2-step managed this issue by having long "hard" instrumental sections in the middle of poppy tracks (most typically this would be on a remix of a more straightahead pop-2-step version) which would turn anthems into bangers. Funky seems still to be beholden to the housier tradition of not actually switching up the groove too much.

That said I adore that vocal track that goes "if you want it gotta take it babe you know you gotta ask for it don't you wanna own it honey..."

Other tune that's really hype for me right now is the one with the descending piano riff and the sampled vocal going "dat dat, nn dat nn whoo-whoo!" before breaking out into near-absurd broken beat percussion.

Thanks for that FaZe! It's nice to be able to ID the Suges vs Swift Jay track - would never have guessed that Suges were involved (then again I don't know what the original sounds like) but in retrospect it kinda makes sense. I always thought that tune sounded a bit like a Low Deep grime instrumental.

^ this is teh nuts. (might forgive him farmer yardie at this rate.) also the new lowslung muttered verse is exactly why i keep saying flowdan should switch to funky. even the crap one from tok would do!

Also that makes "African Warrior" and "My Philosophy" sound like the same genre.

"^ this is teh nuts. (might forgive him farmer yardie at this rate.) also the new lowslung muttered verse is exactly why i keep saying flowdan should switch to funky. even the crap one from tok would do!"

Yeah I love this, and I like how Donaeo just sucks up pre-exisitng tunes and makes them his own. Flo Dan totally should be a funky MC though - he always sounds best talking shit over fast beats. Stop fucking with The Bug, Dan, and get on this.

^^cosine - also that big latinate remix of princess nyah. really feeling the track that opens it too - more xylophones! love its abstract moodiness. and tawiah into 'our father' is such a great transition.

surprised there hasn't been much lil silva talk here yet, 'seasons' and 'funky flex' are both massive...

also ALSO: crazy cousinz and hard house banton are playing wifey on friday and i am definitely reaching...

Yeah Lil' Silva is great, I think I talked about "Seasons" is one of my overviews last year. My only complaint is that he's the producer that lots of funky house sceptics check for in order to legitimise their sweeping dismissals of the rest of the genre, presumably because "Seasons" is the archetypal (grime)-funky tune. But this is not his fault and it's an amazing track either way (also approaching "Yellowtail" levels of deserving ubiquity at this stage).

yeha wifey sounds sick this week but it clashes with prosumer/maurice fulton at east village. plus every time i go some sort of uk dance ting i attempt to blend in by wearing a new era hat and look like a tool.

re: 'seasons' and grime-funkiness - i see where you're coming from but i think it's so much more obviously melodic, and with more of that steelpanny carnival vibe, than 'yellowtail'. also it feels like it's always on the verge of turning into '4 minutes' (and wow, imagine a funky remix of that beat)

The reservations I have about "Black Sun" and "Gone 2 Far" are fairly similar to those I have about "Sequence", though they're better tracks: sure the rhythm programming is nice enough and the synth chords are impressively discordant but... it's not very funky is it? The groove doesn't really build at all, on either track, it just sort of assaults you repetitively. Compare/contrast with "Inflation" which doesn't hold itself out as groundbreaking but is all about the build, the sense of excitement of the ratatat snares glancing off the string slashes, the point when the booming bass finally comes in, then the xylophone. Whereas Kode9 seems to like making tracks that hover in stasis, suspended, sort of wavering in glowering confusion. This isn't a bad thing per se but it seems to me to depart from the core value of UK funky's approach to its groove (and its basis in house), which is I think very much about hype-building, trying to work a sense of narrative development into a relatively repetitive groove-framework. People like Roska and Apple do this less so than others (whereas Crazy Couzins, perhaps owing to their songfulness, are at the absolute extreme - all their tracks and remixes have multiple sections, builds, breakdowns etc.; Fuzzy Logic is another producer big into narrative development), but even with them there's more of this than on these Kode9 tracks - plus listening to most Roska or Apple tracks in full you start to realise how DJ/MC toolsy they are, best suited to appearing for 2 minutes in a mix with an MC on top rather than played out in corpulent seven minute glory. Whereas with these Kode9 tracks (and even more so "Sequence") it takes about thirty seconds to start wondering what the point of this continuing is.

Maybe this is why the hip hop parts of Memories of the Future are far and away my favourite Kode 9 productions: Spaceape provides the sense of "build" around which Kode 9 can then do his superlative creepy sound design thing.

Marcus Nasty on his most recent show apologised to Ramadanman for not being able to download his new funky tracks in time to play them. Based on "Blimey" and (the also amazing, headwrecking) "Revenue" I wouldn't be surprised if his funky tracks are strong; I think his approach to groove is already closer to the underlying approach of funky. "Revenue" sounds a bit like Aphrodisiax actually.

Kode9 seems to like making tracks that hover in stasis, suspended, sort of wavering in glowering confusion

a very satisfying description! very much so for Black Sun

i don't actually enjoy the tunes that much (as in i would probably be a bit bored on a dancefloor), but i guess that's not really the point for his stuff, and fair play. i'm glad he's drawn from a new set of influences and made a shift in terms of tempo and beats, but retained his individuality, vibe and vision. but you're right, as a result it feels a long long way from the heart of uk funky

interesting in terms of the discussion of his approach to narrative is to contrast his Reminnissin remix. in fact i think to be fair he mixes it up a lot between tracks in that regard... Konfusion, Magnetic City, Stung etc all involve pretty slow burning but intense narrative development (still glowering though!). there is though a sense in which you could almost say they evoke stasis in motion in some sense, an evolving closed circuit, wheras the likes of Fuzzy Logik or Crazy Cousinz evolve in a much more fluid and absolute way

as you point to, one of the things i find amazing about Crazy Cousinz is the amount of progression and build they can get into their vocal tracks without you really even noticing... they can feel like traditionally structured pop songs but in fact they swell and lift and break in pretty epic ways

tbh despite the funkyesque rhythm i can't really think of those kode9 tracks as "funky" per se at all, and labelling them as such does both kode9 and UK funky a disservice - they seem to fit quite neatly into what joker, ikonika et al are doing right now though.

bit too late to avoid the hail of old dubstep chestnuts coming down, but i think the secret of 'in the morning' is, in its very fine balance, how well it plays off all the sides it concerns. in a funky mix it stands out a mile, like an outside tune the scene's co-opted, but in pop radio terms it retains just enough spare trackyness and circularity, and therefore dance cache, to stand out in that context too; any further into fully-formed songcraft and we'd be talking about one of those retro 80s wonky jobs like alphabeat or something. CHOON.

thanks to the magnificent chemical records web deck thingy i can now say "oh yeah, so it is". but still, it's a good payoff in its own context.

(... seriously, that thing is great!! well done to all @ chemical for authentically replicating the tedious and depressing mental journey you travel on watching a label go round as you sift thru a bunch of new records in a shop.)

incidentally when i looked at the cousinz myspace just now it said they were playing luton on friday. i suppose they could do wifey as well but...

"bit too late to avoid the hail of old dubstep chestnuts coming down, but i think the secret of 'in the morning' is, in its very fine balance, how well it plays off all the sides it concerns. in a funky mix it stands out a mile, like an outside tune the scene's co-opted, but in pop radio terms it retains just enough spare trackyness and circularity, and therefore dance cache, to stand out in that context too; any further into fully-formed songcraft and we'd be talking about one of those retro 80s wonky jobs like alphabeat or something. CHOON."

Yes. It's pretty amazing. I think this tune is much more pop than "Do You Mind" to be honest, but the beat is so sharp. I was in love from the first "Wooh!"

Re Kode9 - interestingly the tracks that Ben mentioned (the "Reminiscin" remix, "Magnetic City" etc.) are all my favourite Kode9 tracks. He works best when he's got a bit of lightness of touch I think, and goes mysterious rather than out'n'out oppressive dystopian. Otherwise he can come across a bit heavy-handed - a lot of his "big statement" tracks fall into that category (e.g. "Spit", "Ghost Town").

yeh In The Morning i think is much much more chart-friendly than Do You Mind, the crispness and brightness of production alone give it so much more of a chance. r|t|c on the mark though, it is totally out there in both contexts

Inflation is also available at dubplate.net for one small english pound :)

I've heard bad things about buying mp3s from dubplate.net. A mate bought loads of stuff from there, it took days to be delivered to his inbox (someone is actually sitting there zipping up mp3s for each individual order it seems!) and half of the mp3s that eventually turned up were just the short samples that stream on the site - beware!

yeh i heard that stuff too, but when i bought some recently it worked like a totally professional download site, the links appeared on the right of the webpage which i could download from directly. don't know if ppl are still having problems but seems worth stating my experiences to balance

sorry about how blunt my reply is but i think that the crazy cousinz branding noise is obviously so carefully sound-designed & it sounds so amazing when it comes in on the vinyl ... hearing it in shitty sound qual really misses out on the gigantic club sound it has

& really when hard drive space is so cheap ... its too bad we cant get the shows direct from the station ... but i guess that keeps folks from bootlegging

i really dig the crazy cousinz cover/remix of loveshy & love lockdown was obv meant to be a funky track btw

ahhhh crazy cousinz & hard house banton were so so so sick at wifey!! god i love the way funky sets always involve ALL THE HITS. the sticky b2b of 'bad gyal' and 'how very dare you' made me lose it more than any other moment but tonight was just endless good times. and i will not stand to hear any "grime funky" reservations about 'seasons' again b/c that tune is just SO MUCH FUN TO DANCE TO.

also the slightly schizo funky/bassline/funky mix really made me realise how much i prefer funky.

Lex again can I say I have no reservations about "grime funky". I should just stop reading dissensus on this topic though where half the people are like "yeah this funky is all tepid shit except for Lil Silva".

It's a bit like when people used to say all german dance music except villalobos was a waste of time - it's annoying even if you love villalobos.

My favourite other Lil Silva tracks aren't "Funky Flex" but "Different" and especially "Power" which is just insane.

Some other big grimy producers who I can't find out much about at the moment are Madd.One and Funkysteps.

Also Lex you should check out the latest Marcus Nasty set on Rinse, it features Princess MCing live - though briefly, low in the mix, and not terribly well.

Haven't heard the Crazy Cousinz mix of "Loveshy" - want this! Yeah it's weird how the "Love Lockdown" cover sorta sounds like the ultimate version of that song.

Deej I'm not sure re "Lift Me Up" - have you tried contacting Seany B? He's got a myspace page but no "lift me up" snippet in his music player.

A lot of the DJs give tunes to particular DJs ages before they enter into general circulation e.g. Footloose was playing Fuzzy Logic's "Polyfunk" in the middle of last year but Marcus Nasty has only played it in the last month or so. So maybe this one has still to fully emerge?

XPOST - Ha my detective work pales into insignificance!

Also LOL Dissensus are currently discussing whether Lil Silva, Cooly G and Kode9 form a holy triumvirate which redeems funky in the form of "dark funky". Y'all think I'm constructing strawmen here... Really don't understand the randomness behind the nerdy lionisation of Cooly G (although she's v. good and v. distinct sounding I'll grant). I have a suspicion that it's because she reminds me people of Cassy a bit (as in German house Cassy, not Cassie fan club).

i know (at least) 2 dissensus posters IRL and they're A+ dudes - i have no idea what they're like on dissensus because i don't read it - though they pretty much agree with me about the awfulness of reynolds acolytes and indeed reynolds himself, so they can't be that bad

I dont think ILXers should be throwing any moral mud at Dissensians when on certain shared topics they're effectively just using the same types of arguments to defend diametrically opposed positions. Personally I find it healthy, it's like reading The Guardian *and* The Times.

i know (at least) 2 dissensus posters IRL and they're A+ dudes - i have no idea what they're like on dissensus because i don't read it - though they pretty much agree with me about the awfulness of reynolds acolytes and indeed reynolds himself, so they can't be that bad

yeah exactly you hoe, maybe stop living dissensus b4 you admonish people for merely reading it.

i would also suggest in light of recent events that the proper funky position is to support reynolds in the current shedding of his dead weight stans - glutted crews make clotted theories! like yeah, once he debunks wonky, has a flick thru guattari's chaosmosis, and makes a tweak or two to the still-handy nuum he'll be on the funky train being useful again in no time. gwarn simey.

as for the 'lately' track 5 - tee hee i got it off dissensus! it is from the official hardhouse banton/dubplate wonder feb mix, which is quite good but i havent digested it yet fully. apologies for not saying something more about it in depth, i forgot that this was the only thread left on ilx that people didnt still confuse for aol instant messenger dot com innit.

obviously it is not any great sonical advancement in anything, but then as it happens i guess that's the entire point - the tune's enormous charm lies in the sweetly radiant commingling of deep house hubris and uk youth mumblecore courtship, with that kind of wry tentative-but-not "heh look at us all raving to this stuff" of the half sung 'it's not over yet' type house cliches. (it would be even better if it was a bootleg of some big tune actually!) but yeah basically it's a otm zeitgeist banger imo, and i think it might do something.

Ha is this you politely saying "i don't get it, this is just any tune..."

I dunno, I just love the way the parts interact, the bludgeoning beat, the sickly bass drops, the slightly quirky electroid riff, the piano, the slightly traumatised vocal sample "it's my sound... sound..."

It reminds me a lot of DJ Klasse & Richie Boy's "Madness In The Street" (always one of my favourite 2-step tunes) that kind of off-sounding but still sexy and compulsive and just a little bit slick - enough to juice it up and make it flow rather than come on all Lil Silva bang you about the head business (which is great but in a different kind of way).

I mean that kind of radioactive, glowering but still sensual darkness is kind of my ideal utopian music - see also London Dodgers' "Down Down Biznizz" or the Bump & Flex Remix of "Straight From The Heart".

the kode 9 12 is good but overrated (it is more wonky than funky though - cant see marcus nasty playing those tracks - or has he already done it?, tho it would be interesting). theres always something a bit deficient to me about his beats. they lack a certain physicality. hyperdub is still a great label though.

im sure this will be taken as a sign of 'person who hates all funky thats girly/housey/happy/hedonistic etc' but i absolutely loathe that KIG song. its up (or down, rather) there with 'funky anthem'. id much rather something like frontline, that new fuzzy logik tune, or katy b's (brilliant) as i got funky some recognition. not this. i dont know which side of funky cheerleading is better - the side that only likes funky when its 'dark' or grimey or the side that praises everything cheesy just cos its 'fun' (well, apparently) so you should dismiss all critical faculties and just enjoy it.

sorry about how blunt my reply is but i think that the crazy cousinz branding noise is obviously so carefully sound-designed & it sounds so amazing when it comes in on the vinyl ... hearing it in shitty sound qual really misses out on the gigantic club sound it has

― deej da 5'9 (deej), Saturday, 21 February 2009 01:48 (6 days ago)

no not at all, its all good :) yeh i can see what you're saying, but i guess my issue is that often this kind of music in hi-def download / cd format can sound pretty sterilised and well sterile! a number of funky tunes i've been very disappointed to hear hi-quality in comparison to the way they sound overdriven through a pirate's compressor on low bitrate. the way it mashes the sound together and creates bulges and bumps can bring so much life out of it, wheras in reality a lot of the production can be quite flat and dull, which is cool on a system with a vibe on the dancefloor, but on a cd or hi-def download it can be quite underwhelming

that branding noise is one of the best things ever though, along with their 'cray-zey cousinz' insignia. undeniable and phenomenal, such addictive and wonderful ways to say to a dancefloor / listener - YEP this is US... speaking of which their remix of KIG is massive (introduced by squealing electro synth riff of said 'cray-zey cousinz' motif!), totally underrated it first listen, but heard it drop in a set and it came to life in a big way, the bassline is truly bubbly. discombobulated was actually the word that came to mind as a slightly onomatopoeic way of putting it

donaeo mix is awesome also, as said above, totally makes it his own. i love all three mixes, hope they all go on the release

its purely a subjective thing, i'm not trying to say that anyone else should feel the same. i'm also mixing two issues into one which is a mistake - one being the sound getting pushed through a compressor or battered in some other way pre-broadcast, and second mp3 compression. so probably thinking about it properly higher bitrate wouldn't make much difference to what i'm saying. but it remains that i've enjoyed many tunes far more in radio rips than when i've heard them on studio-recorded mix CDs. i'd also very much disagree with the idea that its purely a subtraction of sound or detail, as well as that its a change in sound

this is something that makes a lot of sense living in london and listeing on FM, the tunes are all pumped till they distort, that adds the extra 'oomp' that makes this music sound like its spinning out of control sometimes. The majority of this stuff will never see a proper mastering job or vinyl so the compression/distortion. This is something i found out myself when i tried to make the jump from livesets at smaller venues to big rigs. Without the disortion adding to the dynamics of my tunes they sounded wimpy as hell, pretty much had to back to the drawing board and figure how to make everything work frq wise. Ive heard that kode9 is playing a lot of cdrs out and distorting the systems deliberately and given his theory background id say this was the adding of a pretty deliberate signifier.

agree with benjamin and straightola. interesting if thats true about kode 9. along the same lines, im still convinced 679 compressed the songs on run the road 1 and made it sound a bit dirtier than the original tracks.

i dont think u guys 'get' compression -- the problem is it flattens the sound, it doesnt add dynamics ... thats just eqing which is a totally diff thing

i'm not saying that dynamics are being added, rather being altered. if you put a tune through a compressor at high input with a low threshold and high ratio, it creates bulges where the tunes quiet and dips where its loud right? which totally changes the groove and sense of space in a track. add to that the effect of a dj in the mix. that unpredictability of space i think is what makes it exciting to me, wheras the relatively straight and flat production on a lot of funky tunes i can find quite boring when presented cleanly (outside of the vibe of a club or social space). i'm open to correction on technicals though i can't say my understanding is particularly expert

what do you mean about eq? cos i have also noticed on some pirate stations a pretty unique sense of eq, but have always put that down to the compression

yah im actually a fan of distortion when it has some function -- i think it can add atmosphere etc, its kinda like a twist on bass drops & basic house DJ eqing in the theo parrish etc sense -- i think my objection is more the notion that its got a more 'real' sound or more interesting sound w/out it i mean i get the idea that it being in a mix, & sounding sloppy & 'live' is a huge part of the appeal but im really very glad that the bass still hits like its supposed when this shit is properly release (all the crazy cousinz shit ive heard sounds actually pretty amazing in its 'studio version') -- imo basically its the DJ's job to fuck with the compression of the tracks, not the producers.

Speaking of DJs, I'd love to see more chat about them on this thread, which always seems very producer-focused. I have to say that sequencing-wise the only two guys that bring anything particularly special to this seem to be Marcus Nasty (obviously), Spyro and Perempay... I still love that mix Perempay did for Rinse halfway through last year when he keeps bringing 'In the air' back again and again and builds this really smooth hypnotic feel with the tracks, which is so radically different to the 'slam in the hits' approach that it really struck me. I think that because funky is at that (wonderful) stage in its evolution when all sorts of different iterations on the basic template can co-exist in one set, that's when you'd expect some amazing new styles of set construction to appear. Maybe I've just not been to enough clubs. Dunno, anyone want to shout out any particular DJs styles?

Okay track ID time. On Lil Silva and Marcus's set from 20.02.09, what are:

- the amazing dancehallish tune at the 45:21 mark, with the huge synth riffs and the sampled "buss it!". The way the beat switches up at 45:50 is just insane.- the cataclysmic synth stab tune from about 82 minutes - it's like Quentin Harris gone grime. Marcus's announcements imply that it's "Sunshine" by Target???

I don't really keep up to date as much as everyone else on this thread but that remix of Head Shoulder Knees And Toes with Doneao on it is INCREDIBLE. Ditto Party Hard, even if his signature is getting a bit Harry Belafonte.

I really like In The Morning as well - it seems to be the closest funky might get to its own Fill Me In (ie big breakthrough hit), which I never really thought about Do You Mind.

ok, so, beyond last night was SO SO SO SO SO GOOD. loads better than the last one, though earlier on i was still irritated by the preponderance of hooded boys facing the dj and skulking without dancing - it must be so depressing to be faced with that as the dj. miriam and i held it down as best we could, though, and a group of girls in party mode arrived at some point too, so it did get going later.

but anyway, the music! it was a lot housier than i expected - MA1's set was unbelievably detroity. in places, it could almost have been a carl craig-esque techno set, except w/that galloping broken beat instead of steady 4/4. recognised a lot of deeper cuts like jalla's 'turbulence', roska's 'our father'. it was stellar. surprisingly few vox, even in the marcus nasty and geeneus sets, but the occasional superb anthem obv - 'seasons' and 'frontline' were the night's biggest winners, though i can report that 'in the morning' sounds EVEN BETTER in a club.

- only just realised that it's jalla as in jalapeno, duhhh- the lyrics of 'frontline' are kind of fucked up, it's all about a girl looking after her dealer bf's coke stash...and the line "i'm in love with this boy and he calls me snow white" is obv a coke ref, but for ages i assumed princess nyah was white because of it. (she's not.)

yeh man the frontline lyric is pretty interesting... her role is also metaphor for her emotional exposure in the relationship i think ('my heart's open so wide...'). definitely some compulsive but quite upsetting tensions of willing / resistant, exploited and knowing it / proud and wearing it

glad Beyond was good. i was not at all sold on plastic people as the place, as a venue it really draws out that eyes on the dj vibe. it would really benefit from some more lighting at the back for certain nights i think. system is so good though

yeah, her defiant/no-nonsense tone makes her sound so determined to make herself vulnerable in all sorts of ways.

<3 the plastic people system - after listening to so many mp3s and sets on shoddy bitrate, it was so brilliant to feel the bass. agree about PP the venue, but it was better than the weird west end place beyond started life at...

Anyone got any recommendations for the ravier side of funky? I'm thinking in particular of stuff like Jalla's Turbulence, which is like 50% Township Funk and 50% the Trentemoller remix of What Else Is There. Although not as bombastic as that sounds.

- i continue to enjoy crazy cousinz remixes far more than their own trax- dunno if the farty horn noise is a new thing recently or not, but i support reggaeton in my funky house- "party hard" is also great, reminds my n00b ass of those sweet sean paul duets that i love so dearly- i still think that the faeda rmx of teedra moses is still my fav funky joint of the year tho

- "The Way You Move" is an awesome piano number a la "Quicktime", "Gallium", "Visions", "Hypnotic"- the "Anthem Tribal Remix" of "Party Hard" removes "We Belong To The Night" and turns the track into weird darkside gamelan, while "Love To Happen" is a pretty amazing tune that speeds up DJ Gregory's "Don't Panic" exactly like "Migraine Skank" only adds all sorts of amazing little details and effects and motifs.- "Fresh Air" is amazing widescreen ragga-cum-R&B a la "Girls Like This".- The rhythmically distended "Red Bull Skank", full of these Skream-like showy stiff snare hits, is probably the kind of sound the scene will plump for if it decisively moves away from house. Reminds of "Midnite Request Line" etc. but in a good way.

x-post - yeah it's Sabrina from Mis-Teeq! Unsurprisingly she sounds a bit shriller than usual here (may just be pitched up). Though actually a lot of their second album tracks were kinda shrill - i'm thinking of "Best Friend". I'm wondering if she's the one doing the patois ad libs here ("blood clart!").

crazy cousinz were pretty great at night slugs last night. was pretty exhausted half an hour before they came on and wondering how i could get through their set but god the energy they brought was spectacular, even if the crowd had thinned by that point. had never heard their jazmine sullivan remix out before, hands in the air.

bokbok played some joker and other 'wonky' earlier too, didn't see any ket heads though.

I think my somewhat belated love affair with funky stems from the fact that it only takes one rhythmic tweak to work virtually the entire history of dance music* under one umbrella. Pretty sure the producers know this and are having an enormous amount of fun with the myriad possibilities this throws up - how far are we off the appearance of funky trance I wonder? Our Father is most of the way there already.

Your general comment though is perhaps the strongest reason for my own enjoyment - that all-embracing ecumenical vibe whereby tricks that would sound tired in their original setting suddenly take on a new life (the unlikely fun-factor of Geeneus's remix of "Show Me Love" is a good example here, although to be honest I always love "Show Me Love" in any setting).

I think there are a lot of tracks, particularly at the "tribal" end, that sound pretty junglistic though. Still don't know the name of the archetypal tribal track that Marcus always plays, the one that sounds like some sort of harvester machine wielding bongos.

The Show Me Love remix was the exact track that made me think that, incidentally, mostly because it appeared in that Faze mix immediately after hands-in-the-air piano house (The Way You Move), no-nonsense minimalist hard house (Takover) and Daydreaming, which is only one step away from being a Body Language bootleg. Funky to me feels most interestly 'read' as a recontextualisation of the past 20 years of house music with a more limber beat that makes it more boozy than druggy - like a reimagining of the way dance music might have progressed if ecstacy had never existed. This might be incredibly wanky but at the same time it might explain why some of the hardcore continuumheads seem to have a problem with this stuff.

That Tawiah track also crossed my mind when I was talking about 'funky trance', I'm not sure it quite fits the sound I'm thinking of though because Arms's own production style is quite chunky and jerky and beat-em-up even when he's being girly.

It's funny, because I've been thinking the exact opposite about the this music, that it brings overtly druggy elements back into the continuum. Certainly a lot of the afterparties I was going to two of three years ago were highly drug fuelled, and the audiences and music being played were directly related to the more 'concrete' scene that exists know.

Basically I posted that link to demonstrate that my strawmanning isn't purely based on my own paranoia - or, perhaps rather: I may be paranoid but I'm still right. Kode9 comes across rather well in the article; it's the legitimacy-handwringing of the article itself that irritates (some other parts of the article were rather well-written though so it's not all calamity).

Funny how the standard line now is that New York garage was worthy while "US house's placeless, post-authentic progeny" is not.

Because, y'know, 12 years ago people would have been making the same complaints w/r/t New York garage.

I guess, as so often happens, "worth" in this context really means "it has been redeemed by subsequent developments".

This is the same curious logic by which the only truly bad taste music is that which is no longer popular but hasn't yet been revived.

Anyway surely one of the more fun/interesting things about UK funky is the way in which it takes all of these tricks and techniques that have long since entered the international commercial house music Public Domain and reparticularises them (stylistically/geographically/thematically).

Which, I think, is pretty much the same aesthetic impulse that has motivated much of the best contemporary dancehall.

Generally, the problem with authenticity-discourse is not that it's wrong (this stuff is too complex for such stuff to be "right" or "wrong") but that it sclerotizes thinking: it's one thing to say "let's look for some kind of kernal of authenticity in this music", but quite another to blithely assume that authentic music is that which speaks to, from and about other authentic music - and yet you see people slide inexorably from the first position to the second.

yeh i found the whole tone very conservative, and it was clearly written by someone who hasn't really engaged with and doesn't really feel house.

i find writing that "justifies" contemporary music with reference to its historical links or precedents, or valorises the 'redemptive instinct' you identify very boring and suffocating. sadly it seems to dominate a lot of writing about electronic and dance music nowadays (and probably more broadly too)

its true, 'authenticity-discourse' closes peoples' minds and encourages lazy superiority. but do you think there is value in engaging with the idea of authenticity at all? what would the first type of position or process that you mention actually entail? as time has gone by i have found less and less convincing argument to suggest that any such a position is feasible

"but do you think there is value in engaging with the idea of authenticity at all?"

Well, in truth either very little, or where there is value it's because the search has been reimagined (or the goal redefined) to such a degree that "authenticity" doesn't really fit as a descriptor anymore.

With regard to funky I would put it this way: I think there is value in approaching this scene as a found phenomenon that we accept from the outset is real, has rules and conventions and particular messages or value to impart. Stated so boldly, this is something of a creative fiction, but it's a creative fiction that we indulge in so as to be able to think more clearly or incisively or expansively about the music.

An example: Suges's "We Belong To The Night" is more of a UK funky house tune than Kode9's "Black Sun", even though Suges is Canadian and the track first appeared several years ago. What makes this so? Talking in terms of "more" or "less" at least implies that there is or are some essential truth or truths w/r/t the meaning and identity of funky that tracks can then be measured against. But the fact that "Black Sun" is "less" funky than "We Belong To The Night" does not make "Black Sun" a failure - what we're talking about is simply a quality of the relation of the three terms (Suges/Kode9/funky).

In this sense perhaps authenticity can be defined as a matter of integrity rather than pedigree: what principles or understandings does a given piece of music keep faith with, and how does it do this? The difference being that pedigree is with respect to something fixed and external - royalty are royalty whether you have royal blood or not. Whereas integrity is an internal quality that cannot be abstracted away from the particular piece of music expressing it - after all there is nothing to tell us which ideas or notions must be the focus of integrity in the absence of the experience of that act of fidelity. Indeed in the case of an evolving-in-real-time genre like funky, the relationship is entirely circular: we hear tracks that adjust our notions of what funky "is", which correspondingly transforms our sense of the relationship of that track and other tracks to funky.

interesting. i'm struggling a little to unpack the last paragraph but i think i get what you're saying. definitely agree about redefining the terms, i don't feel that 'authentic' etc is any longer a useful or productive one, because it feels (to me) so loaded

integrity is an internal quality that cannot be abstracted away from the particular piece of music expressing it... there is nothing to tell us which ideas or notions must be the focus of integrity in the absence of the experience of that act of fidelity

by 'act of fidelity' do you mean a producer's act fidelity to an 'authentic' lineage? essentially do you mean that integrity is a better term because it does not carry assumptions about what is 'integral' to a genre?

when the discourse is moved into the realm of trying to understand why or how music is defined, and establish ways of recognising and understanding what we mean by 'funky', its a totally different exercise. i think this is also different to trying to understand why or how funky means or feels anything to anyone, which i think is probably the most interesting discussion to be had in the journalistic / academic realm, although it probably also has a fairly high kill-joy potential!

i guess the fundamental problem i have with authenticity as a concept (and it may not feel the same to many people) is that as a term it feels so bound up in and loaded with a (lazy) discourse that is about value, in a purportedly objective sense. i think there is still a broadly held assumption that one's subjective sense or understanding of authenticity translates to a universally applicable norm, necessarily conferring value. that assumption irritates me quite a lot, although it shouldn't!

cool Tim, no rush! its something i'm interested in talking about cos i think my thinking on the matter is still quite muddled, so its always good to explore

i really like Mak 10's shows, esp in the bits where he plays it a bit housier / vocal, i've found the tuffer bits he's playing of late a bit tiring though. Footloose is always great. i've not checked CC for a while but i do actually usually enjoy their shows quite a lot, so much energy. i really like Dubplate Banton/HHBanton, and the one Twista show i have is wicked. need to check more of the Rinse lot more regularly i think, MA1 and such

I have nothing against the style of music they play - I like it a lot actually, basically they're doing Jerome Sydenham/Dennis Ferrer/Quentin Harris style deep-tech yeah? But they're kidding themselves if they think they'll create a new genre out of this sound now, when there's already been such intense activity in this area for the past couple of years.

to some extent, but they don't (at least yet) quite have the same musical capacities as Tuff Jam did... but i am a total Tuff Jam fanboy so maybe not offering a neutral perspective! from a more social perspective it seems a good comparison though

i think their selection is a bit more expansive than just that NY deep sound though, loads of quite maximally arranged techy but housey european stuff, some more trad. UK deep house guys etc, broken beat plus chicago/US deep. funnily their selection is probably broader than most UK guys, just with much more explicit boundaries and exclusions.

strikes me that much of their position comes quite a lot from social sides rather than music or sound in abstract, more so than many others. it seems that wanting to be as far from grime, the vibe that came with it and the mentality that dominated it is almost the defining factor of their perspective and musical choices

it does actually seem like more broadly the whole nursery rhyme / chant trend is splitting the scene in half, or at least polarising it, i've seen a lot of very, very impassioned critiques of that stuff of late, even from ppl like Marcus Nasty

heard a lot of chanty crap i hadnt heard before out on saturday, seems a lot of half baked producers are hunting the next 'heads, shoulders..' (which im unsure of) style vocal hook. I don't think ive heard an mc led funky track yet which i didnt think was gash

I AM NOT SUPPORTING FUNKY MC TRACKS THAT ARE REALLY GRIME TUNES OR OTHER PEOPLES TUNES THAT YOU HAVE MC'ED OVER AND ARE NOW PASSING OFF AS YOUR OWN.

IF YOU CANT MAKE IT AS AN MC YOU WILL DEFINATELY NOT MAKE IT AS AN ARTIST!IF YOU ARE AN ARTIST YOU SHOULD KNOW BETTER!AND IF YOU ARE AN MC WHO IS JUMPING ON THIS TING YOU SHOULD KNOW WHAT YOU ARE DOING OR "LEAVE IT ALONE".

IM NOT SAYING THAT THEY ARE ALL SHIT IM JUST SAYING THAT WE NEED TO KEEP IT FUNKY TO REALLY ESTABLISH OUR SCENE AS AT THE MOMENT THERE IS NO CONSITENCY OR ANY SORT OF LEVELS WITH REGARDS TO THE MC TRACKS FOR INSTANCE DONAEO & VERSATILLE IN COMPARISON TO THE CRAP THAT HAS BEEN SENT TO MY INBOX.

THE HEAD, SHOULDERS, KNEES & TOES TRACK WAS ORIGINAL SO IT WORKED BUT EVEN THEY STRUGGLE TO PERFORM TO THE LEVEL OF AN ESTABLISHED MC ON A LIVE SET.

MY ONE OFF MC SHOWS ARE LIVE "RADIO SHOWS" TO SHOWCASE THE TALENT FROM WITHIN OUR SCENE AND ARE NOT TO BE TAKEN AS A GO AHEAD TO INCOURAGE OTHER DJ'S/MC'S WHO LACK IDEAS OR TURN THIS SCENE INTO A TALENTLESS HYPEFEST.

OMG, on the new Mak 10/Shantie set Ach (Benjamin?) posted on the dissensus thread (and btw welcome back Shantie MC!), the second track is JAWDROPPING. I think it's a remix of J-Will's "Deja Vu". Sweet but dark hi-tech robo-pop, with a rhythm as memorable as the tune.

I'm Ach. I've just checked out the J-Will original, that's a very good video, especially with Wretch who I've always liked. Pretty sure the funky mix is by Soul Tonic Sound System. I can't find their myspace as yet but there are a number of tracks by them on ukfunky.com

I know that i've touted the secret black dog --> uk funky connection before, but Mos' Wanted's "Frozen" (on the new Marcus Nasty set) really does sound like something off Temple of Transparent Balls. But it's also smashing. I like how a lot of the time this music seems utterly oblivious to its own oddness.

was listening to a dj ng set on rinse the other day, with mc versatile (i think). he seemed a bit self conscious about some of the softness of the tunes that were being played (it was more typical funky house rather than funky), constantly repeating 'this is the new garage' in between almost defending the tunes (if only to make himself feel better lol). i like 'funky' but half the other shows on rinse seem to be playing the usual watery proper funky house. makes you remember this this sound is still in its early stages.

latest Footloose show is sounding stupidly good, loads of new stuff sounding great, just skipped through a bit then dropped into the more epic bit towards the end, Mercurial Myrmidon - Moving Shapes is so so so good, so euphoric! stunning vibes and such a disgraceful bassline. i nearly lost it on the tube today. i swear at this rate i'm going to be a born-again Christian by Christmas

there are some UK guys developing a really epic and deep but totally ruff approach that I am enjoying a great deal, kind of crosses over with some of the stuff Louie Vega and Kenny Dope are doing here and there and some of the stuff on Strictly / Defected...

still hanker for that Chunky Bizzle tune that was getting rinsed in the summer

Yeah, though "Mash Up Da Venue" (still one of the most amazing garage tunes ever and I think a big reference point for a lot of the darker funky, intentionally or otherwise) was kind of an anomoly for Lavonz - everything else he ever did was fairly polite bumping post-Tuff Jam stuff (albeit often excellent).

Can't stop listening to that Mak 10/Shantie show, it's taken over my life. So many great tracks/moments:

- that opening vocal track with the slightly stalkerish lyrics and all the clattery snares, which acts as a great taster for:- OB's astonishing "Domino Effect": that's the eerie bleepy one with the lonely cyborg singing "That's the way the domino falls... You had me from the very start, now it's time that i surrender... something in my HEART... just went click..." This is such an interesting track from a paradigm pov: I'm actually a little bit over a lot of the more conservative, soulful post-"Time To Let Go" vocal tracks, but this is so much more expansive and unusual than that (as is the "Deja Vu" remix near the beginning) - icy synthish sonics but not falling into the electro-house trap, closer to Cassie's "Me & U" or Aaliyah's "We Need A Resolution" if anything, perhaps crossed with early Nightmares on Wax. I really couldn't think of a better direction for vocal funky tracks to go in.- The bootleg of Hardhouse Banton's "Reign" with D Double E on top, I didn't think this was amazing until the second beat variation comes in and it matches D.E.E's rising urgency perfectly.- An otherwise too masculinist tribal-breakbeaty track totally redeemed by being played off a heliumed-up version of "Genie In A Bottle"- That awesome track with the grimey strings and the diva shrinking "IT'S THE NEW SOUND!!"- The one with the guy commanding "jump and skank to the beat!" over the ridiculously big bassline.

Actually I think "Domino Effect" is technically: Addictive - Domino Effect (O.B. Remix) or maybe (Invasion Remix). I note that it's on the Footloose show linked to above. I'm having difficulty downloading that set in full but I really want to hear the Invasion Records producer showcase section! Love those guys so much.

Speaking of which I just went on a splurge on ukfunky.com and got Tadow's "Rising Sun" and Fingaprint's "The Takeover" amongst many others.

My biggest find was discovering that Swift Jay's "Toppa 5", aka the tune from last year with all the Elephant Man samples and the totally insane stuttery groove.

Yeah, though "Mash Up Da Venue" (still one of the most amazing garage tunes ever and I think a big reference point for a lot of the darker funky, intentionally or otherwise) was kind of an anomoly for Lavonz - everything else he ever did was fairly polite bumping post-Tuff Jam stuff (albeit often excellent).

yeh there's some truth in this, i think he was always on a certain trajectory, but thats part of whats interesting to me i think. just funny where people end up and pop up. also just for fun...

kind of like his 4x4 Mash Up Da Venue. Vibration is still one of my absolute favourites too. that and Mash Up Da Venue are easily two of my all time favourite records. i consistently enjoy his use of outrageously odd bass sounds in the oddest of contexts (even his soulful stuff is very odd i think)

with you on some of those vocal tunes about at the moment, that really cold, emotionally catatonic vibe - feeling it.

some really really interesting things picking up again in these recent sets, felt like there was a slight lull but the new year is killing it now

are you still having trouble getting the Footloose rip Tim? i could up in parts or something if so and you want any of it

oh yeh and that other Mercurial Myrmidon tune is sick! he is shaping up to be an amazing producer, wasn't convinced by his first few but he's doing it now. total carnage on that one. still sold on Moving Shapes, the way Footloose drops in and out of it in that show above takes it somewhere else

Re the Footloose set, it's just that zshare tends to stop downloading and random points for me, so then I have to start all over again. It usually takes about four goes with these large sets. I'll try again tonight - thanks for the upload!

Interesting that the "Am I Your Girl" tune turns out to be DJ Q of bassline fame - I don't think this is as good as his best bassline stuff, though I like that skanking offbeat counter-rhythm sound he uses through much of it.

it wasn't me on the upload, just the link :) it was a guy from dissensus who uploaded

i can put it up on a different upload site if needs be, just let me know

started listening to that Mak 10 show at last... boy. he is such a badboy once he gets going, he knows how to hit a vibe and ride it. totally feeling you on the new breed of tune coming through, totally plugging that gap i was bemoaning upthread opening up between straighter housey stuff and bleak tribal grimey stuff... exciting times. that along with the likes of Mercurial Myrmidon and some of the weird housier stuff on the Footloose show are finding a beautiful sweetspot somewhere very fresh and compulsive

also LOVE shantie!... he's such a joker, pure vibes. totally brings things to life... "we do it for the girls, do it for the geezers"...

I love Shantie so much, it's almost creepy. Esp. since he hasn't bothered to come up with any new rhymes in the past year. I love it on that Mak 10 set when "Seasons" starts up, and he announces "and you know what goes PERFECT with this!!!", then waits for the tune to break into its main groove, then rapidfire:

"Rude boy nowaday what you a do/pick up your gun from god knows who/ain't got an idea ain't got a clue/what you gonna do when they come for you??"

Not to mention on Crazy Cousinz's "Always Be Mine" where he darkly portends "funky comin' in the breeze..." just before the tune flips into its spooky dancehall section, and then starts guffawing at his own inadvertent good timing.

Re Mak 10, yeah particularly on this show there's a sense of him occupying the middle ground in a good way, whereas Marcus can sometimes feel a bit bipolar in his swings between vocal tracks and sparer instrumentals. To my mind, as with 2-step, there's no reason that vocal tunes can't be dark and experimental and no reason why dark and experimental tunes can't have vocals. Though that said a lot of my favourite tracks this year have been instrumental. But I think vocals often make tunes seem harder than they were as instrumentals, rather than the other way round - e.g. for some reason Wookie's "Gallium" becomes ruffer as "Fallin".

Actually the newly vocalled "Always Be Mine" is a good example of the fact that anything can be vocalled. It reminds me of old Wideboys remixes.

The most extreme version of that though will always be the Lorraine Cato vocal mix of "Pulse X".

Shantie has just got a good vibe, what many mc's don't... he sounds like he has so much fun, and loves the tunes, and has simple rhymes that make you smile

agreed on vocals, both in the sense that fluid vocals can really draw out the percussive tuffness of the rhythm (if its there), but also in vibe they can (paradoxically) take things to a stranger and unique place... like that Domino Effect would be a nice enough deep techy number anyway but i think the vocals put it in an entirely different space for me

slightly unrelated and it may not be rated but i've been absolutely lapping up this Timmy Regisford / Shelter tribute mix these last weeks

Gratuitously reviving this thread to note that the two Mak 10/Shantie sets (the deja one from March and now the new rinse one) have monopolised my life even more than the classic marcus nasty sets from last year. This really is the most astonishing stuff!

I think Marcus is more consistent than Mak - who has some very boring sets at times - but the two Mak10/Shantie hook-ups are unbeatable. On those sets Mak has a better track selection than anything Marcus has managed this year at the very least.

maks ok but he doesnt know how to sequence or build up the momentum of a set as well as marcus when hes playing instrumentals. not nearly. i love shantie. i dont really know his history but he reminds me of early grime mcs around 2001/2002, kinda like gods gift but not as gruff. marcus' sets are still great, but its a bit weird to still hear dubs he was playing last year still being played when we're almost 6 months into 2009! (good as they are)

i generally find Mak a hands-down better selector in the flow - when he hits a seam he absolutely kills it, wheras i often find Marcus doesn't really get me hitting a vibe for extended periods so much.

Mak is also an extraordinary dj in terms of beat-matching, chopping and eq

in terms of consistency i've found Marcus Nasty to be very inconsistent... sometimes months of boring shows. it seems like maybe he goes through longer phases of being not that great, wheras with Mak 10 the shows he's done have varied massively even within the space of a week or so.

but they're both great to be fair

however Mak also wins at not making threats against other house djs on the internet

In other news, that awesome bleepy tune that I've been trying to ID forever - it's early on in the Marcus + MCs set from November last year, after Geeneus's "Make Me" I think - turns out to be Mos Wanted's "Different Lekstrix". Not that surprising since Mos Wanted's more recent "Frozen" is rather like it.

The none-more-insane tribal track that dates back to a similar time (and is on that set as well) is (surprise surprise) Lil' Silva's "Tribal Land".

Also, Royal P seems to be developing a fine line in that sickly-lush new vocal style emerging (a la the OB remix of "Domino Effect") - "Between Us" is simultaneously woozy and svelte, all disorienting synth swirls and delicate percussion. If this is where the vocal end of the scene goes I'm totally all for it.

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Speaking of ramadanman, his recent podcast for Appleblim's Apple Pips label includes that awesome funky track which marcus plays, a fractured rolling tribal number with these awesome 2-step-style cut-up female vocals. It's like an ever-so-slightly feminized version of Lil' Silva's "Tribal Land". I wonder if it's his own?

The first tune on the April 29 Marcus Nasty Set is another amazing track in this dancehall/funky fusion style. A shame there's something up with the rinsefm set at the moment and i can't download this properly at the moment.

LOL at calling your comp "This Is Funky House" and then making it two/thirds your own productions, but then that first disc is probably the one I'm looking forward to more.

A lot of the second disc selections look old now (albeit reliable, and superior to the mix-disc on Volumes), but then I guess that was inevitable. I wonder if, had I been following UK garage as very closely right through 1999, I would have been similarly underwhelmed by the tracklists of all those early-2000 compilations.

it's being billed as a crazy cousinz album, so that first disc is justifiable! and preferable, i think we'll all agree, to CC actually trying to do An Album. both cds are really really great to listen to, anyway, little new for us lot i guess but excellent primers. though i guess they couldn't afford to put the jazmine/shontelle remixes on :(

I love the "Sweet Music" remix as well, and haven't even heard their take on K.I.G.

Not so into the Estelle remix which seems a bit by numbers. And they were wise to leave off their remix of "Sex Shooter", which is fine but it's an annoying song. They should have included their remix of Platnum's "Loveshy" though.

Yeah that second disc looks a pretty great introduction to the scene, I've been wondering what the first commercial funky compilation would look like. Shame 'In The Morning' isn't on there though.

I was in a very suburban high street pub in deep SE London last night and the DJ played the CC mix of 'The Boy Does Nothing', followed by 'Do You Mind', 'In The Air' and 'Bongo Jam'. My first thought was 'lol 2008' but on the other hand people seemed really into it.

so the rinse 'volumes' comps are going to all be like that from now? not sure i wanna hear so many funky 'albums' really. id prefer it was just mixes. the 2nd one will prob be good/fun but do we still need tunes like something in the air on comps? i wanna see ppl put out mixes of all fresh stuff.

this thread, i think, has proven to me that 'funky house' is not very funky-- in fact, much of what i like about it is simply Defected-style progressive house tarted up a bit. i mean, i like some of Julien Jabre's stuff and after listening to some Kyla tracks i have im all right with her, but i still don't get how this is the big thing in the UK right now.

the table is the table, how much UK funky did you listen to before you decided to offer your definitive opinion?

Because funky isn't so much a sound as a (cough) continuum that runs from "Do You Mind" through to "Seasons". I could easily come up with five or ten funky tracks that, if you heard them in isolation, you would assume belonged to separate genres. Kyla's material is close to the conservative end of the scene.

(And none of those genres sound like progressive house, though I suspect you're using that term incorrectly as nor does Julien Jabre)

It's a bit like someone coming on to the techno/house bobbins 2009 thread and saying, "man, I listened to a Steve Bug record and I have no idea why you're so into all this stuff!"

"Granted that the name "funky" is inherited, I think that in an odd way it does have purchase.

With the benefit of hindsight it's clear that a big part of the appeal of more conventional funky house was, perhaps from the beginning (or certainly from 2005), a certain allegiance to syncopation, the push-'n'-pull between the 4X4 kick and the counter-rhythm patterns on top, which perseveres in current funky.

Hence the Dennis Ferrer mix of "The Cure and the Cause" being such a pivotal track in the UK scene's emergence as a distinct (though not necessarily original or innovative at that stage) scene in itself.

While soca patterns have a huge role within current funky, it's also clear that they don't exhaust the current rhythmic template of the genre (no-one in this thread is saying it does - I just want to be clear). In this sense that soca beat could be said to occupy the same role as the basic 2-step beat in garage - lots of tracks use it or a variation of it, but it's only the most obvious of many forms the rhythmic template thows up.

However, I think you could characterise the overall rhythmic template as being one in which counter-rhythms are given a more decisive and prominent role, at times resulting in the abolition of the 4X4 kick (e.g. "A Little Bit Funky" or "Always Be Mine" - though even on tunes like these the absent kick has an implied presence in a way it didn't in, say, 2-step).

Off the top of my head I can't think of many tunes at all which just use a straight house beat with no counter-rhythmic adornment. That awsome Spryo tune on Marcus Nasty's November set with all the MCs toasting on top comes to mind, but even there there was a counter-rhythmic 5-pulse-per-bar chord which provided the same push'n'pull tension. You don't get really monolithic 1-2-3-4 tracks that predominate in regular house.

It's that sense in which "funky" actually means something still I think - whether it accords with more conservative definitions of funk is a separate question, but I'd say if it did the music probably wouldn't be as interesting... "

Yeah, but funky draws it's syncopations much more from afro-carribean musical traditions than the african-american ones that would more likely be associated with the word "funk". I agree with your general points, but at the same time, it's no mystery why the genre tag might be confusing.

i get it, Tim. (I still would characterize Julien Jabre as progressive, though with much variation along that continuum).

i just think of funky house as...well, what is now called 'deep house.' shit like Paul Randolph and more disco-funk influenced house....whereas much of the funky-labelled stuff seems much more influenced by Defected-style big-room house or big-room New York house (ie Ibadan and Nite Grooves), with a much more soca and hip-hop flavor.

also, tim, it's not that i dislike it. in fact i'm warming to its sound quite a bit-- i'm just a bit skeptical, that's all. i'm sure that if i went out to a funky night in the UK or someplace else where it is very popular, i'd have a great time.

As I mentioned upthread, the wonderful thing about UK funky is that it can and does encapsulate virtually the entire history of house music in all its forms with the aid of one rhythmic tweak. Your post raised an eyebrow with me even before Tim interjected - funky can be and already is a much wider range of things than most other dance genres.

And it isn't "very popular" in the UK - in fact most people don't even know what it is right now. It isn't even getting much media coverage over here, although that might change if the sound blows up at the Notting Hill Carnival this year.

Off the top of my head I can't think of many tunes at all which just use a straight house beat with no counter-rhythmic adornment.

'What's In Your Handbag', also the Perempay & Dee remix of 'I'm Right Here' by MA1. But yes, very few. I sort of think of the straight 4/4 as the equivalent of kick-less sections in techno, maybe it re-energises the dancers for when the syncopation comes back in.

"whereas much of the funky-labelled stuff seems much more influenced by Defected-style big-room house or big-room New York house (ie Ibadan and Nite Grooves), with a much more soca and hip-hop flavor."

Well yeah... but I think for most people a tune like the Ferrer remix of "The Cure & The Cause" is pretty much exactly what comes to mind when they hear the term "funky house".

But search the tracklist for any comp bearing these words (e.g. "this is funky house") from the past decade and it's clear that the term is so elastic as to be near meaningless.

joining all the dots between her dreamy, abstract productions and full-on diva house - i never fully bought into the binary of GRIMY FUNKY at one end and HOUSEY FUNKY at the other, but this mix would make a nonsense of it, anyway

"joining all the dots between her dreamy, abstract productions and full-on diva house - i never fully bought into the binary of GRIMY FUNKY at one end and HOUSEY FUNKY at the other, but this mix would make a nonsense of it, anyway"

Yes but Cooly G sets sound rather different to other funky sets* so I'm not sure if that says something about funky or just about her.

*to the extent that we can talk about "other funky sets" - obv there's no set pattern and a lot of nominally "UK funky" DJs still play 90% US or Euro material. Really what's most different about Cooly G sets are her own productions, which provide the bulk of the "dreamy, abstract" quotient here.

But yes describing any scene in terms of a "binary" is always gonna be wrongheaded, esp. because funky is drawing from soca, dancehall and broken beat as well as from house and grime.

Cooly G is coming from a different place yet again insofar as she adds minimal and dubstep overtones. Of all the big UK producers only she and occasionally Roska are going for a dreamy/abstract sound. In a lot of ways this runs counter to what I usually like about funky. I think a big part of my enjoyment of funky has been grounded in how it redeploys certain things that i really liked in minimal, being disruptive and intricate rhythms, but does so with a populist/ravey sensibility quite foreign to minimal as it currently stands.

I've noticed that I now have less patience for a lot of the more reduced minimal I used to enjoy because funky has distorted my listening habits somewhat.

Whereas Cooly G's music is very accomodating to a minimal sensibility (and a dubstep sensibility too, but the Hessle Audio end rather than the Caspa/Rusko end obv). I enjoy stuff like "Love Dub" and "Dis Boy" more in the way that I enjoy, say, Pangaea, than in the way I enjoy other funky.

Still, I'd say this is nice rather than magnificent. It's nowhere near the obsessive take-over-my-life levels of goodness of Mak 10/shantie. Speaking of which the Mak 10/Marcus Nasty set from 6 April gets really great from about 45 minutes in, the limited skills of the ring-in bassline MCs notwithstanding. Loving that genuinely funky track in between Sami Sanchez's "Dirty Trumpet" and "A Little Bit Funky" at about an hour in. And that epic grime-funky track at 1:05:00. Also that final massive track from Bloodfire - didn't he used to be in Bugz in the Attic?

the shoutouts ARE - like deej in fact - quite annoying. tho tbh that whole mix (like cooly herself, good as she is) is a bit overrated (most fact mixes seem a bit lazily put together imho - like that roska one a while back).

heard a new donaeo track on kiss tonight. his most commersh song so far, nowhere near as good as the last few. goes a bit nuts with the orchestral stabs too.

in that case download (what i nabbed of) it like the animals do on tellyyyyyy. i was gonna llow it actually what with the dubs being old but in light of recent... travails perhaps a point needs to be reiterated. also if anyone should have the misapprehension that shark's a lairy joker and little else then i'd ask them to point out when their fave mc ever nailed anything so well as him breathlessly winding down his capers with "dj... play my..song... please!" at 23mins.

so now, i'm as fond of shantie as anyone, but i've never really gotten that upthread thing of just a good bloke having a good time, showing much love, making you laugh. shantie does of course represent all those regular everyman qualities but to me works in an different sort of way to sharkey, who really is the ne plus ultra of all of the above listening to this. shantie's everymanness seems almost... profound? during his sets i even tend to find myself zoning out a little; he's weirdly unobtrusive - with that odd muffled quack of a voice - and thoughtful, and observant (stuff like suddenly deciding to getting round to doing some bars for the olympics, or that strange moment of seriousness justifying (to whom??) some stop the war lyrics with "well, it is a bit much innit"), and basically kinda just wanders in and out of the mix absentmindedly sometimes. yet he still intensifies the dance, not in spite of but because of all that somehow. in a greater sense i rather like to think of him as this kind of gentle shepherd of funky, safely prodding along marcus' and mac's furious herds of confused housey livestock, and your thoughts that go with it all the meanwhile.

i think i am in agreement with the thoughts here & elsewhere of reynolds' gimp regarding cooly g. (cept about the middle bit of her mix, i hated that.)generally it seems to me a bit like in terminator 3 when arnie went all SQUEEEE and pussied out of his job just cos skynet thought they'd send a lady terminator over this time - did i remember that right? oh.

oh also me then being crestfallen at the cooly-ish stutter techsoul whatever section immediately following (indeed including, in that context) the 'love lockdown' cover early doors on the last marcus set.

i was trying to work out if i liked, or rather had any use for, this a while ago; think this would get play now or is bilal still too human?

Yes, I think this is right - if nothing else Shantie's conscious rhymes (e.g. "it's bare war on the streets nowadays/but I got two sons and I want shit to change/gun, coffin, wreath, wreath/every day more mums in grief/do we need more love on the road? in the rave? in the streets?") contradict that notion of him as an uncomplicated everyman. It's the interplay between that side of him and the "skanks in the bank"/"jump up and down on the spot!"/"all the skankers in the bank move to the front" stuff that makes him enjoyable.

The shepherd image is a good one: I think perhaps what inspires the "everyman" comparisons is that Shantie treats all the different styles fairly equally. Whereas the grimier MCs tend to wax and wane in enthusiasm/aggression levels based on what's playing.

One other thing I like about Shantie (and Rankin' too, but Shantie does it better) is that he's a good critic as well. Like when Mak 10 drops his Hard House Banton/D Double E blend and Shantie shouts "Lucky!!" repeatedly, as if to say "treasure this moment because you may never experience it again!"

(though Mak does tend to spoil this by rewinding the tune multiple times, I'm guessing so that no-one steals it from him. The intro on that one takes a bit long to build so the constant rewinds do hamper the vibe somewhat; that said when D.E.E. raps "I'm gonna put my hand through the letterbox" as the new counter-beat comes in... well, it's like the most exciting four seconds I've heard this year)

Ha, speaking of being reynolds gimp, his recent and dense discussion of the hardcore continuum being "centripetal" is actually very worthwhile and interesting, and accords with my own feelings substantially.

song is black coffee ft bucie - turn me on (original mix) bah xp. yes it is like you've always known it isnt it! and actually from south africa to boot. (whoooooaa we're all having a conversation let's write a book review about it.)(just... don't even get me started on "dancehall funky".)

"melissa bradshaw's recent takedowns of reynolds are infinitely more interesting and worthwhile than that endless centrifugal vs centripetal post, and her theory of soca aerobics is definitely smarter"

Lex, based on that post Melissa appears to be conflating K-Punk and Simon's explanations of the hardcore continuum idea. They're actually very different. This is not her fault though, both writers have muddied the waters by not acknowledging their differences. All of the papers or associated rants I've read with respect to that continuum conference seem aimed at K-Punk's version of the idea rather than Simon's.

Simon's position is basically that he's talking about a set of cultural practices. K-Punk's is that he's talking about a politically charged philosophy for understanding and determining the quality of music. Simon's very happy to say "funky is 100% in the continuum, I just don't like it." K-Punk wants to tie the concept to (his personal sense of) the music's worth and/or(sonically) revolutionary potential.

To this extent it's really K-Punk who is prodding people to retaliate with "your problem is you just don't get the music, you're an old grinch." His response to this is, "it's not the music that's important, it's the idea that gives it meaning and resonance which is important." Which Simon wouldn't say, for him the idea is interesting only insofar as it traces what is actually happening in the music.

Melissa criticises Simon for saying (I paraphrase) "we all know what happened to Goldie when he disconnected from the continuum", suggesting that he instead failed due to complacency and fame. But the two explanations aren't mutually exclusive. I'd suggest that Simon means, "If we agree that jungle was mostly great when it at least functioned as jungle qua jungle (regardless of whatever other stylistic qualities it might have possessed), it's to be expected that when an artist who positions him or herself as transcending that functional aspect, the quality of their music is likely to suffer."

I'd make similar comments of Roska's "classier" recent material: by seeking to minimise those qualities of the music we immediately associate with funky in favour of allusions to detroit techno and broken beat, those productions actually abandon a lot of what makes Roska an interesting producer in the first place.

cookie 4 tim, yeah i meant that more as just dem two forming the lamest tag team ever rather than any judging of your partic intolerances. (far be it from me, etc.)

the reynolds nuum piece is fine i guess, but it's just him in his garden shed with the old trainset unless he's to go deeper than "funky is 100% in the continuum, I just don't like it" with it. this is the whole bloody thing.

Yeah, the fact that simon doesn't get funky is a massive black mark, I just think it doesn't necessarily disprove (his version of) the theory.

One problem with k-punk's "the theory is the point" stance is that the time when the theory is actually most interesting is also the time when one is least likely to focus on it as a theory.

The Feminine Pressure thinkpiece remains the most eloquent expression of the entire notion to date, and there Simon barely acknowledges it as a theory in and of itself, the whole purpose was to use these ideas to grapple with the greatness of 2-step garage. Because the ideas were contextually and sonically engaged with particular music, it just wouldn't have made sense to separate them out and fashion them into some sort of standalone transcontextual manifesto.

The analogy that comes into my mind is that of a DNA sequence in the context of a living organism and a DNA sequence that is successfully isolated in a laboratory. We don't need to convert the former into the latter in order to understand its importance. But when an animal dies, the latter may be all that we have left.

A more correct twist on the Melissa Bradshaw position would be to note that the theory ossifies the moment it's put in terms of being a "pure" theory. The problem is not that the music is more important than the ideas we have about it (if only because it's impossible to say where the former stops and the latter begins), but that an idea developed in isolation from the music it purportedly explains becomes a flawed idea immediately, losing the subtlety and mutability it might otherwise have, and secretly importing faded memories of past experiences of past music to fill in its necessary gaps.

All of my many arguments with k-punk come back to this central point: while he's right to say that a theory of music has meaning and validity in its own right, for me it is inescapably something that needs to be motivated or provoked by the experience of the music to have any real purchase or truth value.

Where this becomes interesting for funky is that i think funky poses a challenge to a lot of these ideas to become (because smarter, more nuanced) versions of themselves. The original idea of the HC seems to have been inspired in large part by the challenge of explaining the odd combinations of transformation and fidelity (with respect to prior genres such as jungle) which 2-step presented. Over the years this explanation has become very "neat"; funky, which doesn't have something like the 2-step beat to organise itself around conceptually, is a lot more difficult to explain, which means that any explanatory theory has to be a lot smarter to be convincing.

i definitely don't want to turn the funky thread into a cuntinuum argument but i was at the UEL conference melissa mentioned and it was pretty great - kode9 and kodwo eshun's paper was excellent for all the reasons she mentioned, and dan hancox and joe muggs were brilliant in comprehensively debunking the entire cuntinuum idea. in particular i enjoyed joe bringing some i-was-there expertise to point out that the HC idea is an exclusionary and inaccurate representation of the 90s, not just something which is past its sell-by date as i think we all agree. i'd link to dan and joe's papers but i don't think they're online anywhere yet. (the nadir of the debate was kpunk spluttering about how artists don't have anything to say about music, and in fact only exist as "agents of the nuum" [ay ya ya] rather than individuals in their own right. everyone laughed at him, gratifyingly.) (i missed his own paper though as i was interviewing tori amos, whose own brand of academic babble was definitely preferable.)

back to funky! yeah at any given time i tend to have DONAEO, DONAEEEOOOO or CRAY-ZEE COUSINZ! CRAY-ZEE COUSINZ! or even "mwah mwah mwah" in my head.

I wish I'd read this thread before attempting to listen to the Cooly G mix because I actually turned off after about 10mins as it was reminding me way too much of the, erm, nu-skool breaks continuum. I'll give it another go.

I made Love Dub on Sunday afternoon when I was chilling with my mate. I had my computer ready to go and I said “Oi bruv, I’m gonna make a banger right now, I can feel it…” He was like “Yeah man, I’m gonna kick back and watch”. So Love Dub came out like that, then I uploaded it that night. It’s about a boy I think I used to love and we broke up and and I missed him a lot.

"Everyone was welcome, and immediately granted the status of auteur of their own style of soca-aerobics"

excellent line.

cool and amusing piece all in all, tho despite the 'fuck all this intellectual over analysing!', it does seem like just another person adding their own 2 (admittedly wittier, less self important) pence to the harcore um, theorum. im sure SR will respond on his blog at some point with his rebuttal, and then MB will respond with hers, and so on and so on. i did like the point about the fact there even IS a continuum being blatantly obvious though - i like SR's writing but often the fact hes such a good writer means everyone forgets that sometimes he just states the bleeding obvious, like a lot of what he wrote in that guardian piece about samples/massive attack.

Yeah, the fact that simon doesn't get funky is a massive black mark, I just think it doesn't necessarily disprove (his version of) the theory { .... }

Where this becomes interesting for funky is that i think funky poses a challenge to a lot of these ideas to become (because smarter, more nuanced) versions of themselves.funky, which doesn't have something like the 2-step beat to organise itself around conceptually, is a lot more difficult to explain

Seth Brundle: The computer is giving us its interpretation... of a steak. It's, uh translating it for us; it's rethinking it, rather than *reproducing* it, and something is getting lost in the translation.

Ronnie: Me... I'm lost.

Seth Brundle: The flesh. It should make the computer, uh crazy. Like those old ladies pinching babies. But it doesn't; not yet because I haven't taught the computer to be made crazy by the...

basically, from my point of view any solely structural modelisation of funky will remain - whilst quite possibly being, superficially speaking, pretty watertight - inadequate in terms of really explaining the animus of the scene. cos the funky esemplasm is reynolds' theoretical binary of flesh & bone fused into one, surely, wherein the warp & weft of the cognitive desires pertaining to "flava" are the equally dominant processual partners to the underpinning rhythmic matrix, which acts as more of an amniotic suspension than a skeletal frame as such.

upthread, matt dc is correct on two points: continually emphasising the idea of funky as a zone of infinite fluxional context, and recognizing what i once termed wrt to bassline the scene's "strong and indiscriminate nostalgic undertow" (by that i mean, well, take your pick - 'funky pulse', the 'show me love' refix, the 'ripgroove' tease throughout lil silva's 'different', 'in the morning', footloose the other week playing black russian's 'soul gypsy' - a boot of soul ii soul over 'gypsy woman' - and you not even noticing how insane it all is. though i'd also argue that this isn't something only localised to funky but is socioculturally endemic in the fabric of everything nowadays, globally; what popular notion of the future even exists any longer besides most guys' style icon apparently being marty mcfly?) as the chief source of antagonism to diehard k-punkian political continuuists; mcluhan's old "looking forward through the rearview mirror" chestnut, supposedly so riven with self-deception as to stall the engine entirely, or better yet what you get when something is both centrifugal and centripetal - stasis? (call it all hauntology and it's a-ok though, obviously.)

i dunno, the way i see it, simplistically speaking in order for nuum theory to survive it needs to develop something of a psychoanalytic approach towards acknowledging the subjectivity of the funky scenius. even maybe schizoanalytic, in the words of felix guattari, whose chaosmosis i ventured to put forth earlier, and which i believe tries to advance what he calls an ethico-aesthetic paradigm rather than a merely scientific one. tbh i ain't really read it yet boss, but i'm reckoning it'll do nicely once other people get stuck into it for me. it also won't stop me from saying that the reynolds' energy flash needs to become a transversal flash - heyo!

even you admit that the shouts and repping stay with you...i just want the music to stay with me, fuck the repping. nothing wrong with personal opinion on that point, thus no reason to call me an idiot.

also: To my mind it basically means populist big-room house that is neither too electroid nor too subtle, as said by tim f....thus, tho i've read this entire thread, i wonder how someone could possibly argue that this music is potentially sonically revolutionary? that seems a bit fucking much to me-- some of it is quite good, yes, but it is by no means revolutionary.

r|t|c, I hope the third paragraph performance doesn't mean you don't really believe in the first two paragraphs, because I agree with them 100% (not talking about the stuff in italics. Is that a Cronenberg reference or something).

In fact this idea:

"wherein the warp & weft of the cognitive desires pertaining to "flava" are the equally dominant processual partners to the underpinning rhythmic matrix, which acts as more of an amniotic suspension than a skeletal frame as such."

... is pretty much exactly what I was thinking but less neatly.

That's my point re the 2-step beat: despite UK Garage being less easily absorbed within a straight k-punk futureshock narrative than jungle (because, like, how do you theoretically explain the visceral intuitive certainty that the Sunship Remix of "Flowers" is perfection embodied?), nonetheless the beat becomes a get-out-of-jail-free card for inflexible theorists, letting them pay lipservice to a futurism they may not fully believe in anyway - they can acknowledge the bones so that they can overlook those aspects of the flesh that trouble them.

I think you're right that funky is where the flesh/bones distinction starts to break down - even the beat structures could be entered into the "flava" column, that "strong and indiscriminate nostalgic undertow" extends to the very rhythm patterns of tracks as diverse as "Seasons" ("I Luv U"), "In The Morning" (Bugz in the Attic), "Frontline" (Davinche) etc. Whereas 2-step's engagement with flava was hierarchically ordered by the beat, in funky it's more like all the elements come into constellation with one another, such that it's impossible to point definitively to one particular quality that renders a tune "UK funky" on a sonic level; the "funky" as such is in the covalent interrelationship. This is most obvious with the complicated history of tunes like DJ Gregory's "Don't Panic" and Suges' "We Belong To The Night" - both already anthems before they got varying vocal treatments, but somehow becoming more funky afterwards. I don't think this ever really happened with 2-step; the need for beat simpatico was always the overriding concern.

One thing I've been thinking about a lot, and it ties in with "if you don't want to dance to funky house, are you dead inside y/n?", is the question "what ears does funky demand of its listener/dancer ?" In other words, what is the manner of listening (or thinking about listening) appropriate to funky?

It's not something I can describe in full (not yet at any rate, and probably not ever entirely) but I think a part of it is a state of mind in which enjoyment of inadvertent eclecticism (not eclecticism proper - ooh let's follow x with y - but the eclecticism of a single "genre" which seems to entail and even require a constant diversity of strategies) becomes more than incidental or additional and assumes a position of, if not necessarily centrality, then something close to it. I feel like sequencing in mixes is even more important in funky than it was in UK garage, the way tracks collide into one another with totally opposing flavours and structures and yet, however briefly, become entangled and implicated within one another in a manner that works. In that sense the function of the house beat and the house tempo is as a kind of open space in which those kinds of collisions and transformations can occur, perhaps with more easily achieved success than was always possible in UK Garage (where it could be very difficult to find two grooves that sounded good with one another for more than a couple of bars. Probably the other influencing factor is that a lot of these tracks are very much like grime in their construction, occasionally verging on 1-bar loops, so the jumps from track to track assume more importance).

Ugh too tired to force further thoughts out but I want to come back to this.

t's impossible to point definitively to one particular quality that renders a tune "UK funky" on a sonic level

i'm sure this right but in my head the dominant rhythmic signifier of funky (O--XO-X-) is pretty much as clear as that of 2 step (O-X--O-X) tho there probably are more variations within the former (sorry any excuse to write 4 beat drum patterns using O, X and -)

oh-- then forget i quoted you. i've listened to a bunch of the Crazy Cousinz mixes, some donaeo, a lot of Kyla's stuff....

I guess that it just comes back to one of my original points, which is that a lot of this UK funky stuff is quite good, but it isn't anything new-- the same sonic pallettes and rhythm structures have been used for years and years...I mean, an example-- the excellent Black Coffee track above is similar structurally to a great number of MAW productions. that isn't knocking it, but i feel like the 'THIS IS REVOLUTIONARY' pronouncements that some are bandying about are just people looking to claim something as revolutionary. it's dance music, it's for people to dance and fuck to-- that's pretty elemental, and it all just depends on what one wants to dance and fuck to. i'd readily dance to some of this uk funky, but i'd definitely rather dance to a live set from an Ibadan producer like Tiger Stripes or almost ANY Strictly producer-- just a preference.

It's just that the tracks you're talking about are almost certainly weighted down at the house-sounding end of the scene.

By way of comparison, Mos' Wanted's tracks on his myspace page - check "Different Lekstrix" and "Frozen" in particular - share zero in common with ibadan/strictly. The same applies for Lil Silva. And they're just two examples among many.

As someone who also loves Ibadan and Strictly Rhythm I can say this confidently!

Yeah, that stuff is rather different, though from the (disappointingly short!) Lil Silva clips, I think I like this stuff-- grime and soca beats with dirty Detroit tech synths. I think I'm gonna go surfing for some of his stuff.

Yeah, now I can understand a bit more of the talk, Tim. I still don't think it is revolutionary, but the Lil Silva and Mos Wanted stuff is clearly completely unconnected to MAW and Ibadan...so thanks.

i'm sure this right but in my head the dominant rhythmic signifier of funky (O--XO-X-) is pretty much as clear as that of 2 step (O-X--O-X) tho there probably are more variations within the former (sorry any excuse to write 4 beat drum patterns using O, X and -)

The thing is that the rhythms in funky are much more flexible than that. I'd even say that very few funky tunes follow that simple soca/reggaeton pattern. "Do You Mind" for one, but most of the tunes that have followed have used more complex drumbeats with any variety of syncopated snare patterns over a 4/4, or maybe not. I don't think it can be claimed that there is one dominant rhythmic pattern. When I get home I'll post a few different funky drumbeats to illustrate.

I wanted to mention that I totally disagree with the idea that the artist is the authority on their own work. k-punk's idea of "agents of the nuum" sounds dicky but I think it's basically correct to say that artists are rarely the best people to explain the quality and the functioning of their own work - being a good musician doesn't automatically make you a good critic, even a good self-critic.

After a couple of years of being a music critic I decided I no longer wanted to do artist interviews because 4 out of 5 artists will have really dispiriting or at the very least boring takes on their own music. I got sick of pretending I wasn't annoyed by it, and feeling like the quality of my articles was being dragged down by dubious "insights" provided by the subject matter.

A really good example was interviewing Frankie Knuckles: he dismissed all his pre-90s output as soulless machine crap...

Lex the fact that you skipped some of the conference in order to speak to Tori Amos (whose explanations usually detract from the enjoyment of whatever song she's talking about) should make this obvious!

DJs are often better interviewees in this regard because they spend a lot of time thinking about other people's records and how they fit into a context - in some senses a DJ set is a lot like a thinkpiece. This supports (or is supported by) chuck eddy's contention that music critics aren't frustrated wannabe musicians so much as frustrated wannabe DJs.

Certainly with dance music, the intentions of the author or the context of production will rarely have any direct bearing on how the music is experienced in its primary states of reception (be it on the dancefloor or in the car or wherever). It's nice to read about the backstory for "Love Dub" but that has no bearing on whether it works as a track, or how it works as a track.

hah tim, the schizo was a joke insofar as i don't really hold the bestest grasp of the term, yeah (does anyone?) - but my intentions were entirely genuine (as indeed throughout) in the sense that from what little i've read i do actually think it could be a useful text within the sphere of this particular parlour game ("within reason", heh); this was in reply to reynolds, after all. and whilst i was obviously having myself a little stylistic promenade there (cronenberg quote 4 the tru junglist intro clearly!), quite why you schoolmarmishly dismiss that one paragraph - and not uh, the one with the esemplastic modelised processuality or anything - as "performance" probably sez more about you & yours than it does about me, no?

not to mention you then going on to begin to address the funky "state of mind" anyway.

also table is the table, i hope tim reasoning with you on a track by track basis doesn't just make you transfer over your lust of the "revolutionary" over to a different strand of funky that you happen to be less familiar with - i'm not saying some tracks aren't original and excellent and all, but the key thing here is how old, new, borrowed and blue are all uncannily commingling now under one cognitive flag so to speak.