I find the timing of all this activity in the 6DOF genre to be too much for mere coincidence.

SOL Contingency was on the eve of releasing it's updated Descent game when Interplay decided the cash in on the only Descent IP it owns, the Descent name, and tried to shut down SOL Contingency and then licensing the brand to Descendent Studios.

Descendent Studios, who already had been working on their own 6DOF Descent inspired tunnel shooter, has made great progress with Descent:Underground, but it's still lacking some of the features associated with classic Descent. A lot of these are because of IP issues with Parallax. There has been talk about discussions with Parallax to acquire the right to use these assets by Descendent Studios, but no results.

Parallax pulls Descent 1, 2 & 3 off of GOG.com and Steam because of a breach of contract with Interplay. It is now impossible to legally buy a new copy of Descent. (Fortunately most of the die hard fans like myself have multiple copies and originals can still be found on eBay).

Now the original creators of Descent, Mike Kulas and Matt Toschlog, form a new development studio, Revival Productions, and are working on a new 6DOF shooter called "Overload". From all the media I've read and seen this appears to be a true successor to Descent. Since Interplay owns the Descent brand they had to call it something else, but if they own the rest of the IP the Pyro-GX may fly again.

So are all these events connected? Did the excellent work of SOL Contingency ring the cash register bell and wake up Interplay? Did the successful Kickstarter for Descent:Underground and the interest in the outstanding IP inspire Mike Kulas and Matt Toschlog to action? The whole thing reads like a script to a bad soap opera.

Pass the popcorn.

« Last Edit: February 11, 2016, 07:41:31 AM by PyroJockey »

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There are times you strive for greatness, to reach lofty goals and accomplishnoble deeds. Then there’s the rest of the times you just want to blow s--- up.

I find the timing of all this activity in the 6DOF genre to be too much for mere coincidence.

Actually makes me think of Star Wars VII (of all things).

"There's been an awakening...can you feel it?"

Yes, I think it's become very clear now that the world wants the 6DOF genre back in it's life, and to bring it back in spades. And I certainly am okay with this.

And Overload's already striking a vibe with me the others have not. Sol Contingency always had my interest, but it very much has that "fan-made" feel to it, and I'll admit it now that it always has had that niggling feeling in the back of my head that even if it proves to be a stellar game, it's still going to fall short of my expectations because there are simply certain things it could not do to recreate the Descent experience, as that whole cease-and-desist ordeal with Interplay proved.

Then when Descent Underground was announced, I was, as I'm sure everybody can recall, highly skeptical of it at first. I admit this now with much embarrassment because I've warmed up to Descent Underground now that it's now capturing that Descent feel that I'm looking for, but initially, I wasn't seeing anything in the footage or comments Descendant Studios was giving on the project to really show it was Descent, or even come close to it. That has since changed, drastically, (I've accepted DU into the canon now, an' ya ain't takin' that away now, mates), and I think it's going to be a great game that will do well...but even then it's getting held back because again, while I consider DU very blessed to be able to do as much as it has, it can't do more than go in the general direction of Descent because again of the dispute over the rights, and letting that go has continued to be a reoccurring problem for me.

Then there's this newcomer, Overload. I start that preview vid, and almost immediately I'm not only very impressed, I'm thinking to myself that this is the new 6DOF game I've been looking for, the one that can carry on Descent legacy without any question. Heck, at one point in that vid, I was asking myself "are we sure this isn't official Descent? It's like, so close to it already, it's not even funny!"

Better still is the fact that it's clearly emulating D1, my favorite of the bunch, and that's just added brownie points right there.

The timing, however, does ring a worrying tone with me. I can't help but wonder if the Parallax gang had been hoping still to get the chance to make Overload a proper Descent game, and that the recent action against Interplay over the matter was their way of trying to get Interplay to play ball on the matter. Clearly, that didn't happen.

Which of course means that all three of these games are now going to have to compete against each other, and I can feel that the stakes are rising rapidly. That competition could get very fierce very quickly if that trend continues, and I can't help but worry that, if it comes to that, it'll hurt more than help all parties involved in the end...and then where will we be?

Hopefully, though, I'm just overreacting, and everything will work out fine. But still...for the record...

Interesting that they've gone for a deformed cube approach to level design, just like Descent 1 and 2. They've got a "3d decal" thing for adding more detail and a "deformation tool" to create a round tunnel. Also interesting that they're going for the get keys and blow reactor gameplay of classic Descent. It doesn't get much more classic Descent than this.

I don't believe that this will compete with Descent Underground or Sol Contingency (at least not initially) because they're focusing on single player.

I don't believe that this will compete with Descent Underground or Sol Contingency (at least not initially) because they're focusing on single player.

I agree with that assessment. One of the things that will set DU apart are the multiple ship classes with unique roles and new modes of team based gameplay. I'm getting a 6DOF Team Fortress 2 type of vibe here.

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There are times you strive for greatness, to reach lofty goals and accomplishnoble deeds. Then there’s the rest of the times you just want to blow s--- up.

Interesting that they've gone for a deformed cube approach to level design, just like Descent 1 and 2. They've got a "3d decal" thing for adding more detail and a "deformation tool" to create a round tunnel. Also interesting that they're going for the get keys and blow reactor gameplay of classic Descent. It doesn't get much more classic Descent than this.

That's probably the part I like best about it. They've really captured that Descent "look." As I've told people at Descendant Studios again and again on their forums, getting the gameplay down pat is only half the challenge of building a Descent game. There is also a certain visual element to it as well that makes the whole experience click together. To their credit, Descendant gets this, and they try, but they've been deliberately holding back in a lot of ways for fear of legality reasons and not having full rights to Descent.

Well...look at Overload. They're looking like they're using even less of said rights and they've still captured that "look" I keep thinking DU needs more of...first try.

You taking notes, Descendant?

Actually, I'm fairly confident DU's going to be a satisfactory game regardless, but it's a point I think that needs making regardless.

I'm also tickled pink for the return to the deformed cubes, if only because it's a level-building mechanism I already know backwards and forwards. I cannot wait to get my hands on the ensuing level editor.

Quote from: Ionized

I don't believe that this will compete with Descent Underground or Sol Contingency (at least not initially) because they're focusing on single player.

Well actually they're going to have to at least a little bit whether they want to or not, because they are all the same sort of game, emulating the same sort of past game, and all looking to turn a profit one of the others could take part of away from them.

That's not so much what I fear though, it's more of the "picking sides" that worries me, and certain fans favoring one over the others forcing it to become too...heated, and dragging everybody into the needless mess. I saw that happen with Rebirth and D2X-XL (only to the detriment of both, IMO), I know it can happen in the Descent fanbase...I'm not keen to see it happen here

I also can't help but think that Revival OR Interplay's intent behind starting a new 6DOF game when they both did, in such close succession, is directly meant to be competition for the other.

But I'm going to cross my fingers and hope for the best. You're all probably right, and I'm just overreacting.

TBH I think D:U should be different, as it takes place long before Descent in a different environment with people flying drones remotely in heavy industrial mining operations, as opposed to abandoned mines or secret military test sites with decaying walls, where all of the old equipment has been salvaged by the now sentient mechanoids, and all other memoirs of their enslavement. It makes sense and is quite fresh, and I think they should stick with it. The flight controls and weapon systems are about the only thing I think would benefit from taking a hint from the old games.

Retrovirus is another 6DOF but it is vastly different from any of the original D trilogy, and SL0, despite being almost directly inspired by Descent, weapons included, has a fresh take on the environment.

On the more political side, Kulas and Tosch said they've been working since 2014, which means they've been at it lonnnng before SL0 and D:U were even a thing. The only true 6DOF games that were released during that time are Retrovirus and Diaspora, the BSG total conversion for FSOpen. Yes, Kulas is well aware of HLP and the FSO team.

I think they've always been working on it, but it was going slow up until the new post-S&D Sol:C, SL0, D:U, and maybe even Elite:Dangerous' CQC and Star Conflict (it's 3rd person, but you can move and even AB in any direction). They're riding the hype, but not because of the money or fame - it's inspired them to really get into making this game that they've always wanted to make, because they know there are still people out there playing these kinds of games. Even more so now, as there are more people in gaming that have gotten used to motion-intensive games, especially something like Warframe.

By the way, Sublevel Zero was originally just a Ludum Dare game {Link}, back in April 2014. It has the most innocent history of the lot from what I can see. Above I was talking about the commercial release SL0, not the original Ludum Dare.

TBH I think D:U should be different, as it takes place long before Descent in a different environment with people flying drones remotely in heavy industrial mining operations, as opposed to abandoned mines or secret military test sites with decaying walls, where all of the old equipment has been salvaged by the now sentient mechanoids, and all other memoirs of their enslavement.

True, BUT just because it's taking place before D1 doesn't mean it wouldn't still have the same visual cues of things that are still in the process of being developed INTO what they are shown in D1. It really should be approached with a sense like how Valve approached the Cave Johnson era of Aperture Science in Portal 2--take all the staples of Portal and figure out how the same things would've worked years before with older tech. So it should be, I feel, with a Descent prequel. And to be fair Descendant Studios has done that...but only to a certain extent, and with only certain things. Honestly, they could do more, but seem to prefer to err on the side of caution because the potential legal issues and thus hold back.

But more importantly, there's also a marketing aspect to it as well. I fully respect Descendant's want to take Descent in new directions and try new and original things that they come up with, which I'm not against, but also consider that Descent had been more or less off the market for sixteen years until DU appeared on the scene, and people who are familiar with it are going to be looking at it, expecting to see something they saw in games past, if only to reassure them that it is indeed the same sort of game they knew of old. But DU hasn't been pandering to that too well, and it legitimately has turned some Descenters away from it because of it. Indeed, I still get a large sense of skepticism from the Descent fan base on a whole in regards to DU.

Whereas look at Overload, where I've found that pretty much all of the comments on it that I've found thus far have been almost overwhelmingly positive, with many remarking that they can readily see Overload has something the others do not, and I swear to you it's because of that visual element. It not only feels like Descent, it also looks it too, and people are reacting very warmly to that. And, again, Overload appears to be spinning itself as only Descent-inspired, and not actually related to it, meaning it'll be using less direct Descent references than DU will be...and it still looks the part for a Descent game regardless.

If the Descent knock-off can do that better than the official title, then frankly there's something not clicking here.

But I really don't mean to look hard at any of these up and coming 6DOF games, and am highly excited for all of them, and greatly hope they all succeed, DU especially. For the record, I did back the kickstarter for DU, I own a copy of the game and have played it and enjoyed it, and want to see it succeed because it's success would mean the potential of further continuations of the Descent franchise, a franchise I think still has a lot of life and untapped potential in it still...but this is still a subject I obviously feel very strongly about in regards to Descent and want it at least on the record.

As for Overload's timing, it's not so much when they started building it that was my point, but rather their timing for when they chose to announce it. I don't think they meant anything directly nefarious by it, but its definitely in response to DU. I also think the choice to confront Interplay about failure to pay certain royalties happened when it did for the same reasons.

But to be fair, I don't know the whole story, and I really shouldn't go putting words into people's mouths, so I'll leave that subject here.

Besides, I don't really think Kulas and Tosch mean any intentional harm to DU or others either, and I think they want them to succeed too, as it means they'll be continuing on the legacy they themselves started, and are proud to have been a part of. They just had their own ideas about where to take it next, and are lucky enough to get a chance to do it. In fact, I'm tickled pink they've brought the band back together; up until now I had been thinking they had all gone their separate ways and didn't really have the interest to make the effort to come back and continue anything Descent-y, but this proves me spectacularly wrong, and I love it because of what it means for the genre.

And anyway, I guess it's really more Interplay's reaction to all of this that's got me worried. I don't trust them to make the smart choice and to not poke the bear at all.

One way or another, even if it doesn't has the name, it screams 'Descent' all over the place.

I'm really excited and fascinated to see that it has Descent 1 aesthetics combined with today's technology.Also to know they are using a modern cube-based engine and are focusing on Single Player, makes me scream like a fangirl, lol

D:U and SolC are really great in they own style, but Overload has the heart of a true 'Descent' game. :')

Will back it up as soon as I'm able to. Hope they will able to reach their Kickstarter goal! (crosses fingers)

I'm personally going to do what I did with DU; wait until it reaches the latter stages of the kickstarter and see where it stands towards meeting that goal then. If I feel it's still coming up short, I'll probably make a backing of some sort then too.

Quote from: Kaiaatzl

Seems to me the map and enemy design looks less like Descent 1 and more like Luke's Entropy 2 set.

Really? Both of the bot designs they show off make me think more of D2's PEST bot (I think it's the eyes). But then again, it HAS been awhile since I've played either of the Entropy level sets, so maybe I'd just need a refresher to see the comparison...

Entropy 2...wasn't that the one that takes place in the distant future, and the first few levels focused around a big battleship of some sort, or am I thinking of a completely different level set?