TSO,
Pantaenius have a good reputation in Europe, do you have any facts to back up your points, do you have personal experience of being wronged by them?

...

Lat year I was rammed badly by a 55T motorboat while I was on anchor. A Sicilian boat from Palermo, they tried to avoid paying, did not communicate the accident to the authorities and I received no communication from their insurance company, a Sicilian one too.

Not knowing what to do and with the season compromised (it was June) I talked with my insurance (Panthaenius): They said not to worry that if the other company did not pay they will. I said that I did not wanted to take the boat out of the water at that time for repair (I was on my way to Greece) but only in October: They said not to worry, asked me to chose among several ports from a list, for the boat to be surveyed and to see if there was no risk in continuing the voyage.

I asked them for the repair to be made on a shipyard I trust, the one that provides maintenance for my boat brand: No problem.

All things were done by phone. They also instructed me what I should do, to give them the chance to nail the guys from the motorboat and their insurance: I filed a complaint and a description of the accident with the Italian coast guard, I had another Captain testifying that he saw the accident and that it happened as I described.

While I was having fun sailing they went for the other boat owner an their insurance. When I come back everything was alright and the other company payed 10 000 euros plus VAT. The premium in my company remained the same.

I don't think they could have done better regarding my problem and situation and it was not only what they have done but how they have done it. The guy from Panthaenuis did actually seem to care about my problems and almost looked he had a personal interest in them. They were more than professionally correct, they were really very nice.

I'm trying to shop around for insurance and Pantaenius is one I tried to get a estimate from - I can't get it. The only thing I get is:

Quote:

Thank you for considering Pantaenius America for your yacht insurance needs. Unfortunately, due to underwriting guidelines, we must decline your request for coverage.

Once again, we thank you for considering Pantaenius America for your yacht insurance needs and please do not hesitate to contact our office with any questions or concerns.

I can't find out what the deal is despite repeated attempts. It's always this kind of opaque response and run-around. I had some back and forth with them and they gave me things to try but it always, and I mean always, results in the email I quoted above.

I decided if it's this hard to get them to take my money, what will they do when I need to file a claim?

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s/v Driftwood
In some waterfront areas, driftwood is a major nuisance.

I'm trying to shop around for insurance and Pantaenius is one I tried to get a estimate from - I can't get it. The only thing I get is:

I can't find out what the deal is despite repeated attempts. It's always this kind of opaque response and run-around. I had some back and forth with them and they gave me things to try but it always, and I mean always, results in the email I quoted above.

I decided if it's this hard to get them to take my money, what will they do when I need to file a claim?

Have you conducted all this communication by email or talked to them in person? Filling out online and emailing often won't get you the reason or concern as phone will more often. Age, size, type, location all figure into the equations. Also answers to many of the questions on their application can exclude.

I traded about 8-10 emails with them, went through their process 3 times based on the suggestions made. Same results. It's been my experience that companies that make it difficult to find a way to make me a customer don't improve much once I become one. I don't want to call them, email them and constantly chase them to take my business. There are other fish in the sea.

This sounds like a company that is purely process driven and unable or unwilling to do anything that doesn't fall within a narrowly defined process. For example, the completely uninformative email responses they send to requests for quotes and information. It's a "bare minimum" kind of company. I suspect their process will be exactly the same should I ever need to file a claim. No thanks.

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s/v Driftwood
In some waterfront areas, driftwood is a major nuisance.

I recently tried the SeaTow brand insurance. They told me "they were over the limit" on Florida policies. My honest bet is they figure they've all had a good run these last several years with high premiums after 04/05 but there number is up pretty soon for some big losses.

Maybe not many people have been canceled, but they are hesitant to write any new business in case there's another round of bad storms in the next few years.
Progressive seems still willing to to chinchy coverage on only boats to 35' in Florida.

Maybe I should hold on launching my boat another 6 months??? Probably get plenty damaged in the driveway as well though.

I traded about 8-10 emails with them, went through their process 3 times based on the suggestions made. Same results. It's been my experience that companies that make it difficult to find a way to make me a customer don't improve much once I become one. I don't want to call them, email them and constantly chase them to take my business. There are other fish in the sea.

This sounds like a company that is purely process driven and unable or unwilling to do anything that doesn't fall within the a narrowly defined process. For example, the completely uninformative email responses they send to requests for quotes and information. It's a "bare minimum" kind of company. I suspect their process will be exactly the same should I ever need to file a claim. No thanks.

Let me assure you that they're not a "bare minimum" kind of company. I don't blame you for going else where. As to "bare minimum" I'd say you took that approach a bit too in doing it all online and with emails. I would strongly encourage someone to actually speak to a broker, before even completing the application. They have three offices manned in the US. We've used the Annapolis office. For claims, they have a regular office number and a 24 hour emergency number. They go to their Harrison NY office.

I'm not saying they are perfect as no insurer is. But many have been very pleased with them. While we do so many things online and with online forms, insurance is one place we've discovered that not to be the way to go. It's great for some things. We love it as a means of communication. This is just not the place we'd recommend using it. Too many subtleties. For instance, a hurricane plan. What is that? What exactly do they require. Actually, they don't require you moving the boat somewhere different. They simply require a plan they can review. If conditions don't allow you to carry that plan out then so be it. Our lawyers actually inserted additional clauses to protect us and they accepted them. They weren't changes but clarifications.

I recently tried the SeaTow brand insurance. They told me "they were over the limit" on Florida policies. My honest bet is they figure they've all had a good run these last several years with high premiums after 04/05 but there number is up pretty soon for some big losses.

Well, first I don't know who the underwriter for SeaTow is. Understand SeaTow isn't the actual insurer, just as Boat US isn't on their policies.

Now underwriters often do try to balance the risk of their policies in total. I'm sure they prefer to spread their policies around the country. So they probably have limits set by area or state. They don't want to be too much at risk to one event in any part of the country. Now when underwriters write for companies like SeaTow that risk increases due to where SeaTow is most popular.

Let me assure you that they're not a "bare minimum" kind of company. I don't blame you for going else where. As to "bare minimum" I'd say you took that approach a bit too in doing it all online and with emails.

When I say "bare minimum" I am talking about the interactions - how they act otherwise is a complete mystery since I can't get past the first step with them. Most email responses from them are one liners, some not even a complete sentence. For better or worse, email is the way a modern company interacts with customers and, because I am typically traveling during the week, a preferred method for me rather than trading voice mails and playing a week(s) long game of phone tag. As I prepare to go cruising, my reliance on email over phone will only grow.

That being said, if this is sufficiently nuanced that only a phone call can make it happen, then why didn't they ever try to call me or even suggest we talk on the phone? It's just one liner emails, a few minimal suggestions that did not work and result in the exact same email exchange occurring again with the exact same form emails being sent.

In this regard, Pantaenius is very nearly unique as I can tell you that the other insurers I am getting quotes from have been very engaged via email and highly responsive to my questions. For example, I first heard of Sea Tow (found out they're actually Sea Insure ) insurance in this thread, just a few minutes ago and I have already traded a couple of very good emails with them clarifying things like details about my boat and my experience and I have the quote in hand *right now*. That's about 45 minutes from first contact to quote, all via online and email. Compare that to Pantaenius with 2 weeks of running through their processes and multiple emails and I still can't get a quote.

I believe you, as well as others, have had a good experience with them. I don't doubt it for a second. But it's equally clear that others have not. It's a pretty mixed bag based on my research thus far. For every great story about them, there seems to be a matching horror story. To be fair, the bag is similarly mixed for every single boat insurer out there. But with all that being equal, I think the company that is most willing to communicate with me the way I need to do it is going to be the one that wins my business.

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s/v Driftwood
In some waterfront areas, driftwood is a major nuisance.

I don't have any idea who is responding to online applications. I suspect it's not in the US, however. I've found this before where the group handling online was very different than the local or regional offices. Sounds like not a broker seriously interested. Still no excuses for it, but honestly what you got online is not representative of any of my communications with them. Ours have all been with the Annapolis office.

Our auto insurance is with State Farm and for the same reasons I don't use their web site for quotes or anything of significance. I do everything through my local broker.

You may be having better results with others online, especially those who don't have brokers in the field. For instance, Geico is set up to be an online business.

I doubt a 1987 Morgan 43 meets Pantaenius' minimum. I think it used to be $500,000. Maybe that's what the web form is trying to tell you. Of course, it would be better if they just said it.

Pantaemius US is a small operation serving only a small slice of the market in the US. They have a great reputation among their clients (including me). I imagine some web consultant told them they needed a form on their web site. I can't believe many qualified prospects use it.

My experience with Pantaenius was the same as Driftwoods, except I did it over the phone and they still did not want to communicate.

Eventually did get an underwriter to call me back and they said they declined due to the survey. The boat was given a thumbs up by one of the best surveyors in Annapolis but they could not tell me what was unacceptable. Guess it's a good generic answer to keep out the riffraff (those of us with boats under 500K? They never told me a minimum.)

On the subject of insurance, has anyone heard of an insurance company (Pantaenius) requiring a survey BEFORE they will quote? It seems a bit over the top since the survey had to be within the last two years.

I can understand them quoting a policy subject to a survey. I also asked them what they required in a survey. They said that was up to the surveyor. I can just see them asking for something after the fact and the boat is back in the water.

Pantaenius..not particularly trustworthy.
Insured with them for over 15 years with zero claims, then one year (around 2004 I think) they just dropped me and many others with low value boats..less than £500k. They happily continued insuring the carribean charter fleets even through the hurricane seasons..go figure!
The only guy I know that had a payout for a hurricane wrecked boat was the UK MD of Pantaenius.
All insurance companies will avoid paying out if they can, they are in the business to make money by whatever means..read the small print carefully if you think you must insure.
Liability insurance is cheap and probably a good idea. In some parts of the world and marinas can be compulsory.
In other words...don't trust insurance companies!

I agree with this. Read the fine print and shop around. However, I've got to note that the stories of Pantaenius paying out promptly and fairly are many. Apart from disgruntled boaters rejected by them (possibly unfairly), factual stories of Pantaenius screwing around with policyholders are few and far between. Based on what I hear, I will keep my policy with them. I even shopped around this year, and could not do any better.