"The IMF expects global growth to slow below zero this year, the worst performance in most of our lifetimes," IMF Managing Director Dominique Strauss-Kahn told African political and financial leaders in the Tanzanian capita

So, my thoughts are this: I realize its not great the way the economy is going. No shit. But, maybe, in a weird way, this is good. Sure, for a long time there has been world wide trade ...but there hasn't always been such a dependence of personal well-being on the sustainability of the global economy, so maybe this will help us get out of imaginary wealth ideas and back to just living well. I mean, most of the stock market and trading and all that shit is just based on other people's ideas of what things are worth, and not actually based on a single tangible thing: THAT'S RETARDED! Maybe if we just went back to micro-economies, based around our house and with a certain mile diameter, we'd do a lot better. The people within our own community would do better, and obviously, most everyone lives near other people, so if everyone took care of everything possible within their own community, it would work for most everything.

_________________You can sing the praises of women all day long, but as long as you put a fertilized egg ahead of [their] welfare, you do not really care about them.-Dori 4/07

I like the idea BUT many local economies no longer exist. The predatory practices of the Walmarts of the country caused the closure of most local mom and pop stores. There would have to be a mechanism for re-establishing the small business for this to truly work. How many politicians do you think would be willing to tread on the big guys' toes?

India's solution was to create a nationwide limit on the size of store (both in square footage and volume). They have no big box store chain equivalent in the country. We are probably past the point of no return in this country because of the number people employed by the large stores because we couldn't afford to have the additional numbers of unemployed to our already massive numbers.

_________________“I'm not a member of any organized party. I'm a Democrat.”-Will Rogers

I see your point, I didn't think of the box stores, but the truth is that they can die off and things would be way better. Fuck walmart. I HATE that place. They have run my small town to the ground. Every store closed except Kroger. We have one other grocery store that keeps changing hands. I shop at Kroger and when I have absolutely no choice, I will make myself go to walmart, but oh do I hate it. Anyhow, I digress. If we could cut off the walmarts, we could recreate the micro-economies. We could go back to buying locally produced goods. I know its very Pollyanna of me, but I know it would function on a far better level than this bullshit does.

Let me ask you this: Do you know what people felt about money after the great depression? I would love to know if everyone went apeshit buying stuff or if they saved and worked hard and were happy with less...

Maybe that could happen for us...

_________________You can sing the praises of women all day long, but as long as you put a fertilized egg ahead of [their] welfare, you do not really care about them.-Dori 4/07

. . .Let me ask you this: Do you know what people felt about money after the great depression? I would love to know if everyone went apeshit buying stuff or if they saved and worked hard and were happy with less...

Maybe that could happen for us...

Both of my parents were born either right before or at the start of the Great Depression. Both sets of grandparents never bought anything on credit other than their primary residences. They paid cash in full for all vehicles and the rental properties they owned. All four of them never wanted to be in the desperate straights they were during the Depression. My parents seemed to spend more wisely but were spend thrifts when it came to food. They always seemed to have at least a two-year supply of food around, meaning frozen, canned and processed foods were the rule. I have had to apply conscious effort to eat fresh food. My parents-in-law were business owners and judge people by their credit rating, paying cash is for losers and poor people. They taught my wife it was her God given right to go apeshit and spend beyond your means. This is the main reason my wife and I no longer share any bank accounts.

_________________“I'm not a member of any organized party. I'm a Democrat.”-Will Rogers

That's really stupid about the cash thing, but I have encountered that. I have, on a few occasions, bought some smaller things with cash (I don't have credit cards, so I haven't bought any big things besides my car) and you are right, the merchants acted like I had the fricken plague and one person actually looked me up and down and said "oh, YOU are paying cash", as if I were actually a piece of shit that had rolled in the store. Arg. It was humiliating for me. I should have taken my money and left, but I wasn't thinking and I was just shamed. Of course, when I think about it now, it makes me mad, but it does still feel sort of embarrassing. I know I shouldn't be ashamed, but I do get that way. I'm a terribly shy person anyhow. Wow, I digress yet again.

I am glad your parents and grandparents are/were so sensible. It makes far more sense; what is the point of some crap that you had to buy with credit?!? The only thing I sort of worry about is that we don't own a house. Which is probably a good thing today, but I do want our own house.

Blah blah, God, I'm sorry. The point of this was I hope people can learn to change and adjust what makes them happy.

_________________You can sing the praises of women all day long, but as long as you put a fertilized egg ahead of [their] welfare, you do not really care about them.-Dori 4/07

I see your point, I didn't think of the box stores, but the truth is that they can die off and things would be way better. Fuck walmart. I HATE that place. They have run my small town to the ground. Every store closed except Kroger. We have one other grocery store that keeps changing hands. I shop at Kroger and when I have absolutely no choice, I will make myself go to walmart, but oh do I hate it. Anyhow, I digress. If we could cut off the walmarts, we could recreate the micro-economies. We could go back to buying locally produced goods. I know its very Pollyanna of me, but I know it would function on a far better level than this bullshit does.

Let me ask you this: Do you know what people felt about money after the great depression? I would love to know if everyone went apeshit buying stuff or if they saved and worked hard and were happy with less...

Maybe that could happen for us...

Unfortunately lefty, I don't think the box stores will die off. I think that allot of our problem is that we are our own worst enemy's. I'm in the same boat as you. I don't go to Walmart and I used to bust peoples balls that I know who do. The thing is, they just do not care.....they don't really understand the real damage the super stores cause, nor do they care if you try to explain it to them because all they see is the cheap prices and one stop shopping. I no longer bust balls....about much of anything. I listen to the ignorant talk about anything from war, the economy, or just about anything else and nod my head. Its not that I don't care. Its just that I have come to understand that people can only see what they want to see. It is something that I guess we are all guilty of at times.

Every once in awhile, and at very odd times it seems, I run into someone who does have a clue and its a pleasure talking to them.

Anyway, I digress....

For some reason, when I read this thread, I had a little flashback to the way it used to be in my trade. I got to thinking about the days when the owners of the companies we work for would buy material for the jobs we were doing that were not made in this country. You know what we used to do back in the day? Refuse to install it. To a man.

Unfortunately, over time they began to buy more and more stuff from out of the country and some of the guys "broke rank" if you will, and began to install it. Once that happened any resistance pretty much caved in. For quite awhile, (just because I like to be a pain in the ass), every time I would get a box of couplings for example, with (at the time), made in Mexico on it, I would scream at the top of my lungs that I was grabbing another Mexican piece of shit. Many of the guys understood that what I was basically saying was that because of this box, someone from this country was out of a job. (Now allot of the stuff we buy is from China).

Again, I no longer say much anymore other than a grumble every now and then. Its funny in a sad sort of way that others shrug in agreement. Its just not worth it. Its a lost cause.

I'm not really sure why this thread made me think back to those days. I guess that in a way it is all tied together. Heck, the more I think about it, everything is all tied together in some form or another. If we look hard enough we can even see it, or parts of it at least. Its actually quite amazing.

Ahhh well. Whatever will be will be.

Dave

_________________CrimsonEagleThe war to end all wars can only be fought on the front-lines of the mind.

The greatest deception they have perpetrated is that we need them. Our greatest mistake is that we believe them.

I think that we are beginning to see more and more calls for this to happen. Its about time though if it is to happen we still have a ways to go.

From link

Quote:

Brown said she is optimistic that a public banking system will come to the United States, though it will take a economic collapse before it happens.

I'm afraid to say that I agree with this. It is a shame that it is not war and killing that will inevitably wake up the population but the loss of material gain. As more and more people lose everything they have the anger and real resistance will begin to grow. Even still the ruling elite will throw everything they have at maintaining their status.

Quote:

"They’re never going to change the system when everybody is doing well," she said. "Everybody is ready for change, so we have to scramble in and make sure that change turns out the right way and doesn’t go into fascism and police state."

I believe that the ruling elite will try and implement a true Fascist police state if the resistance grows beyond a certain point. In the end it will be this action which will cause their demise though it may get messy.

"They" are not going to let go easily. They have to much to lose. There are more and more "useless eaters", as we are so affectionately called, who have less and less. As soon as there are enough people who have nothing left to lose, then and only then will we have a chance of seeing real change.

The big question will be how far they will be willing to go to maintain their status? Will they opt for a nuclear option thus putting themselves in danger?

Also afraid that the federal government won’t have enough money to fund Medicare, Medicaid, and Social Security in the future?

Well, Ellen Hodgson Brown has a solution for you.

Nationalize the Federal Reserve.

I am willing to bet my $27 that AIPAC will kill anything designed to change or audit the Fed.

_________________"If the people allow private banks to control their currency the banks and corporations will deprive the people of all their property until their children will wake up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered." - Thomas Jefferson