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It IS elitism. By score of 1149 not good enough but a 1150 is fine. That's ludicrous.

if SE is hell bent on this, it should read something like "Ready for Coils" or "Prepard for Coils". Don't give the lets a number by which to measure you by. That'd give people enough info for what they want and allow SE to be the deciding factor if someone is ready (gear wise).

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If it's a hardlock I am against it. Why?

I play mmo's for the social aspect, so naturally I am in a Guild (or in the case of FF, a Free Company). I wouldn't go to a HM or raid outside of the FC anyway, so if it only locks people from joining through a Group tool, then fine. If it means I can't join a HM with my friends because me, or one of them, has a few Points missing, then it's bad. I have NP carrying a friend who I feel deserve it, specially if I know that person has read up on the fight, something a gear score doesn't guarantee at all.

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It's an indirect (as in "not blatant") way to help drag content out more by gating it and forcing the player to go through content that they might otherwise not want to. It's the game director dictating how you'll play the game (that portion of it anyway) and what content you will be forced to do in order to progress.

It just so happens to benefit from a more superficial appearance of "making sure people aren't biting off more than they can chew", which allows them to put a smiley face on it and make it seem like a universally "Good Thing". Although, really... in that context, it just looks like yet another form of coddling and hand-holding the player. Yoshi-P has been demonstrating a penchant for that.

But really... It's limiting. Some people like biting off more than they can chew. They like pushing themselves and seeing what they can take on; if they can do things that are supposed to be "impossible". They can group with like-minded people and take on those challenges, creating a kind of alternate way to enjoy the game for themselves.

Meanwhile, the more elitist, min-maxing, "you must meet MY personal standards or you can't join our group!" types could continue doing as they always have and always would regardless. Besides, it's not like this GS system is going to actually stop anyone from elitist ass-hats. They'll just find other ways to do so. Nothing is going to change in that department.

So, it won't prevent a-holes from being a-holes... and it only cuts off guildies, or groups of like-minded people from pushing themselves or giving themselves challenges they can't with such a system in place.

Congratulations... with a GS system in place, you will be progressing through the end-game content not on your terms, but on Yoshi-P's. He will be dictating how, when and on what condition you can try out different content. Not you.

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I think it should only be enabled for dungeon finder. If you are joining a random group it makes sense to lockout people that havent done their prelude dungeons. But they shouldnt do it for dungeons in general because it will make it more difficult for raiding FC's to gear up their newer players. If an FC can do raid K with 1 undergeared noob, that should be their choice instead of making the whole raid redo content A, B, C,....., H, I, J.

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I'm a "hate the player, not the game" type of person when it comes to things like gear scores and dps meters, but I will say that this seems to be a fitting tool for a community that is a non-stop bitchfest about bad tanks, bad healers, bad DD, bad ... everything.

Holy ****, you had to stop dpsing and use Sleep to save your healer from an add the tank didn't pick up? Better quit now because this run is a bust!

At some level acquiring gear (and skills, teamwork, etc.) that enables you to take on more difficult content is the entire foundation of progression raiding. In that sense, it's obvious to any reasonable player that you can sometimes hurt more than you can help while undergeared, and you should be left behind.

One can also stand GS on its head, however, and identify it as a crutch for players who are unable or unwilling to work around the shortcomings of the people they play with, and players who can't be bothered to learn the game's mechanics or the nuances of their role/job. It puts them in position to be carried by the few good, geared players, rather than have to take part in carrying the many bad, undergeared ones. Aside from participating in world first-style achievements, I would argue that truly good players don't care much about carrying other players as long as the goal is achieved. If that means playing in a way that they wouldn't have to play with other good players, in order to compensate for the shortcoming of their group in certain fights, so be it.

The best use for gear scores IMO is for a group that often runs together to identify areas where they can get more out of their group as a whole, and to identify content they think they can do with the evening's group make-up. ie "We can only take on X tonight, but if we gear up players A and B, we should be able to take on Y with this group next week." Unfortunately, most players would rather just find permanent replacements for players A and B, but that's on the quality of people playing the game, not the tool itself.

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I support this because it already exists in indirect form.

If you run Titan HM in level 50 gears from your job quest you will fail. Period - it has nothing to do with skill. I can't complete Titan HM right now because my heal throughput on Succor is too low from my gear level - which is all Strategos (lvl 60) or AK1 (lvl 70).

Perhaps if we booted the people who run in level 50s, people like me with reasonably good gear can get it done.

Well done SE.

@Ayulin:

It's not a "gate" at least not in the way you framed it. As things stand right now, yeah you could queue up with bad gear and get carried. However, there is a point at the game where people just cannot carry a poorly geared player. This is why people will not run with certain gear tiers. There is a distinct point in the game where gear outstrips player skill. If you run Titan HM with level 50s you will fail. Skill is meaningless at that point.

The real argument is that these gear checks exist at all, which you seem to miss. Your excessive negativity and poor argument really make all of your posts lose legitimacy. I don't think you play this game.

Basically a new function will be going in to lock people out of some endgame content if they don't meet the item level requirements.

This is causing some uproar...now they are basically going to say that if you don't have the hard mode gear you cant run raids (in a generalized manner here)

Now, a lot of people hate GS. However...it does serve a good purpose.

It is no different than locking out a level 20 from the level 30 dungeons. It will prevent people from trying to piggy back on people who did run the appropriate content and skip ahead. It will prevent the un favorable situation where one group member is getting harassed for being under geared, or others leaving a group because of someone not knowing that this instance you need full HM gear or whatever.

I think its great because it will reduce negative instances of someone unknowingly entering an instance they are not prepared for (and you can NEVER tell these people anything without them taking offense, not matter how nice you phrase it btw)

Also, it will stop people from basically skipping the endgame content and diving right into the top tier by riding on the backs of friends ect. So you will see more people running the level 44-50 dungeons to gear up for hard modes, and more people running hard modes to gear up for raids ect...and less people trying to skip it all and do a raid.

What are your thoughts? Does locking endgame instances as they have done instances while leveling up piss you off or make you happy...and why?

I can see the positive points of gear score, but it just invites elitists. Games are meant to be fun and enjoyable, not sport. If people want competitions then join a football club or other sport activity. I just want to log on and enjoy what free time I have with out some wee twit telling me they're better than me.

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I generally don't like Gear Score. Typically, I play enough to have an adequate GS, but hate the mentality of "OMG, you suck! You only have XXX score? Geez man, l2play".

Gear Score is a developers way out. It allows them to design content for a base power level instead of truly designing an encounter that is challenging, but not overpowdered. :)

I'd rather endgame content be progression based with no initial score that the player needs to get. Gamers are not stupid. If we notice that they aren't cutting the mustard, we'll either whine like Vanilla-WoW Warriors or find a way to get past the encounter; even if that means telling the raid members "get better gear" or swapping out the under-performers.

FFS, EQ didn't have a GS back in the day and we still managed to clear raid content.

Basically a new function will be going in to lock people out of some endgame content if they don't meet the item level requirements.

This is causing some uproar...now they are basically going to say that if you don't have the hard mode gear you cant run raids (in a generalized manner here)

Now, a lot of people hate GS. However...it does serve a good purpose.

It is no different than locking out a level 20 from the level 30 dungeons. It will prevent people from trying to piggy back on people who did run the appropriate content and skip ahead. It will prevent the un favorable situation where one group member is getting harassed for being under geared, or others leaving a group because of someone not knowing that this instance you need full HM gear or whatever.

I think its great because it will reduce negative instances of someone unknowingly entering an instance they are not prepared for (and you can NEVER tell these people anything without them taking offense, not matter how nice you phrase it btw)

Also, it will stop people from basically skipping the endgame content and diving right into the top tier by riding on the backs of friends ect. So you will see more people running the level 44-50 dungeons to gear up for hard modes, and more people running hard modes to gear up for raids ect...and less people trying to skip it all and do a raid.

What are your thoughts? Does locking endgame instances as they have done instances while leveling up piss you off or make you happy...and why?

I can see the positive points of gear score, but it just invites elitists. Games are meant to be fun and enjoyable, not sport. If people want competitions then join a football club or other sport activity. I just want to log on and enjoy what free time I have with out some wee twit telling me they're better than me.

Gear score will just only give another tool to elitist who already spam chat with messages like 'must be fully geared, should know all the fights...no scrubs, you will be inspected and kicked out'.... i saw these messages just one week after release..yes one week. Everyone is supposed to be geared to the teeth and know all fights at lvl 50 after one week time.

It just left such a bad taste in my mouth and how end game is going to be. I haven't been lucky enough to find a good FC either so i was pretty much on my own. So i just decided to stay away from end game.

This is the kind of crowd you attract with gear score and stats based gear grind. Wildstar is going the same route and it really disapoints me because i thought MMOS were moving forward and not backward.

Basically a new function will be going in to lock people out of some endgame content if they don't meet the item level requirements.

This is causing some uproar...now they are basically going to say that if you don't have the hard mode gear you cant run raids (in a generalized manner here)

Now, a lot of people hate GS. However...it does serve a good purpose.

It is no different than locking out a level 20 from the level 30 dungeons. It will prevent people from trying to piggy back on people who did run the appropriate content and skip ahead. It will prevent the un favorable situation where one group member is getting harassed for being under geared, or others leaving a group because of someone not knowing that this instance you need full HM gear or whatever.

I think its great because it will reduce negative instances of someone unknowingly entering an instance they are not prepared for (and you can NEVER tell these people anything without them taking offense, not matter how nice you phrase it btw)

Also, it will stop people from basically skipping the endgame content and diving right into the top tier by riding on the backs of friends ect. So you will see more people running the level 44-50 dungeons to gear up for hard modes, and more people running hard modes to gear up for raids ect...and less people trying to skip it all and do a raid.

What are your thoughts? Does locking endgame instances as they have done instances while leveling up piss you off or make you happy...and why?

I can see the positive points of gear score, but it just invites elitists. Games are meant to be fun and enjoyable, not sport. If people want competitions then join a football club or other sport activity. I just want to log on and enjoy what free time I have with out some wee twit telling me they're better than me.

Actually elitists invite themselves. They don't need GS tool in their hands to be elitists. However if the tool does the job instead of them telling you gtfo of their raid, than that's actually a step making world less elitistic.

Less in sense that people do (or will with time) accept raid requirement gear lvl of 3488 the same way that everyone accepts personal character levels being requirements to enter instances along the way of leveling. I'm pretty sure the tool alone won't make more elitism by itself, but it can lessen the direct influence that elitis would otherwise have on you. Those same elitists will still be there tho, just less obvious.

edit: As I pointed out on previous page, it is quite a recognizable (I'd even say defining) modern themepark feature, which FFARR is.

Basically a new function will be going in to lock people out of some endgame content if they don't meet the item level requirements.

This is causing some uproar...now they are basically going to say that if you don't have the hard mode gear you cant run raids (in a generalized manner here)

Now, a lot of people hate GS. However...it does serve a good purpose.

It is no different than locking out a level 20 from the level 30 dungeons. It will prevent people from trying to piggy back on people who did run the appropriate content and skip ahead. It will prevent the un favorable situation where one group member is getting harassed for being under geared, or others leaving a group because of someone not knowing that this instance you need full HM gear or whatever.

I think its great because it will reduce negative instances of someone unknowingly entering an instance they are not prepared for (and you can NEVER tell these people anything without them taking offense, not matter how nice you phrase it btw)

Also, it will stop people from basically skipping the endgame content and diving right into the top tier by riding on the backs of friends ect. So you will see more people running the level 44-50 dungeons to gear up for hard modes, and more people running hard modes to gear up for raids ect...and less people trying to skip it all and do a raid.

What are your thoughts? Does locking endgame instances as they have done instances while leveling up piss you off or make you happy...and why?

I can see the positive points of gear score, but it just invites elitists. Games are meant to be fun and enjoyable, not sport. If people want competitions then join a football club or other sport activity. I just want to log on and enjoy what free time I have with out some wee twit telling me they're better than me.

However if the tool does the job instead of them telling you gtfo of their raid, than that's actually a step making world less elitistic.

Damn, it's now clear what we were missing before the Civil Rights Era ****ed up everything. If public facilities had only had devices that detected your race and refused to admit blacks to "whites only" areas instead of white folk having to tell them to gtfo, that would have been a step toward making the world less racist.

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As long as they are very generous with what gear score is allowed, then I suppose I can tolerate it.

It should though not lock out people with gear that is actually enough to beat the content if they play good enough (without exploting of course).

I would have prefered to remove all level and equip restrictions for "hard" content, but yeah.

i hate gear score - but i agree w you

I don't. You *need* gear to complete the high level stuff. I don't care if you turn in a perfect mechanical performance on Titan HM. If your raw throughput doesn't meet a distinct average, you'll fail - at no real fault of your play style.

If they aren't going to change the dungeons to make it a little more skill based, then we need this. I shouldn't have to carry you and you shouldn't want to be carried.

Basically a new function will be going in to lock people out of some endgame content if they don't meet the item level requirements.

This is causing some uproar...now they are basically going to say that if you don't have the hard mode gear you cant run raids (in a generalized manner here)

Now, a lot of people hate GS. However...it does serve a good purpose.

It is no different than locking out a level 20 from the level 30 dungeons. It will prevent people from trying to piggy back on people who did run the appropriate content and skip ahead. It will prevent the un favorable situation where one group member is getting harassed for being under geared, or others leaving a group because of someone not knowing that this instance you need full HM gear or whatever.

I think its great because it will reduce negative instances of someone unknowingly entering an instance they are not prepared for (and you can NEVER tell these people anything without them taking offense, not matter how nice you phrase it btw)

Also, it will stop people from basically skipping the endgame content and diving right into the top tier by riding on the backs of friends ect. So you will see more people running the level 44-50 dungeons to gear up for hard modes, and more people running hard modes to gear up for raids ect...and less people trying to skip it all and do a raid.

What are your thoughts? Does locking endgame instances as they have done instances while leveling up piss you off or make you happy...and why?

I can see the positive points of gear score, but it just invites elitists. Games are meant to be fun and enjoyable, not sport. If people want competitions then join a football club or other sport activity. I just want to log on and enjoy what free time I have with out some wee twit telling me they're better than me.

However if the tool does the job instead of them telling you gtfo of their raid, than that's actually a step making world less elitistic.

Damn, it's now clear what we were missing before the Civil Rights Era ****ed up everything. If public facilities had only had devices that detected your race and refused to admit blacks to "whites only" areas instead of white folk having to tell them to gtfo, that would have been a step toward making the world less racist.