Deadline Day Open Thread

This is your open thread for all things having to do with the trade deadline. 4 PM is the cutoff. There’s lots of rumors and conflicting reports. Post will be updated periodically as news and rumors come in.

– Ruben Amaro Jr. said that Lee will not be traded, and that a M. Young deal isn’t likely. (Take that with an enormous grain of salt. No GM will go on TV and show their hand a day before the deadline.) (Link)

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71 Comments

Brian

July 31, 2013 at 11:49 am

I’m getting a sinking feeling that they waited too long, and that they’re either not going to make a move, or they’re going to make a ‘bad’ trade (relative to what they could have gotten had they made their minds up a week ago, instead of 48 hours before the deadline)

or…that they’ll do something impactful later on or in the offseason. People seriously need to relax about this deadline thing and whether or not Ruben is doing/not doing the right thing. I believe changes are on the way and will be in place before the season starts next April.

Obviously changes are on the way; Halladay, Ruiz, Utley, MYoung, DYoung and Nix are all FAs at the end of the year. Whether or not they’re GOOD changes is my concern.

The problem is, if Rube doesn’t cash in on some of these guys now, we get nothing for them at all. That’s the worst thing that can happen. And good luck passing Chooch, Chase, and Mike through waivers. If they’re not dealt today, we lose.

Additionally, the longer he waits to sell on Rollins, Pap and Cliff, the older they get, and the lower their value becomes. If you want an optimal return, you NEED to trade them now.

This is the exact same thing that happened last year with Hunter Pence. They couldn’t make up their minds about selling until the deadline, and the Giants had them between a rock and a hard place. Rube was set on dumping Hunter, and the Giants were the only ones in the market. The return they got back (a B- catcher, a 4th OFer that Rube didn’t even want, and a C+ pitcher) reflected it.

Keith, yes, he’d rather remain a Phillie – and why wouldn’t he? He has built a very good career here (borderline Hall of Fame, according to many), he has roots in the community, he is still quite popular (among the silent majority), and the FO is indicating it intends to field a contender. Why would he want to leave all that and uproot his family?

I’m glad, and hoping that we don’t trade Lee. Despite the results this season we have some talent on this team and are close to getting back to winning. Unfortunately the big contract we’ve gave to Howard are not paying off, Howard hasn’t been the same since 2009 and he is declining fast. We need a bullpen and someone who will be a leader in the clubhouse and can hit. No one seems to want to lead this team.

Chuck: He needs to dump both Youngs today. For whatever single A middling prospect he can get get. Or they walk. Delmon Young and Michael Young will not clear waivers after the deadline. MY is too good and DY is too cheap.

It’s true that any team could make a waiver claim. But then the Phils can still ask for something in return. I don’t think they’d get much for D. Young in either case, and really, if even M. Young is pulled back from the wire, it’s no big deal. The player the Phils would have gained would be a middling prospect, not worth worrying about.

Both Delmon Young and Michael Young are negative WAR players. They have very little value. They “may” get someone like Josh Lindblom back or the infamous PTBNL that is never actually named and eventually turns into nothing.

My wife drives a red 2006 Mustang that she loves. Its got 120,000 miles on it and the transmission is going. Probably going to cost about $3,000.00. I told her that there is no way in hell that we’re gonna pour that amount a money into a car on its last legs. She loves the car. She’s all Ruben Amaro over the thing. Thank god I have control over the present and long term vision of out automobile situation and not her.

If the Mustang hasn’t broken down in a year (other than the fender bender in May), and has been one of the most efficient cars on the road for the last year, my money is that it will continue to run, and run efficiently, for at least a couple more years, possibly three.

Where is Cesar Hernandez gonna play? CF? Where is Revere gonna play? LF? The Brown moves to right ok…fine. The Ruf gets traded because The Black Hole (pursuant to city ordinance) MUST play first base. So…it looks like Ruf will be a throw in on a deal for something bigger. Oh, the brain is working now. Put Utley in the freaking outfield. Or piut him at third. That where he started. So what if he can’t field the position – Michael “The Matador” Young has been out there all year so obviously there’s no premium on it.

Thats cause John Lannan stinks, respectfully. Chuck – Cesar has been playing CF at LV. “People” say that he is athletic enough to make the transition, Cody Asche (Larry) being one of them. If Utley resigns, then either one of Ruf or Hernandez have to be gone. Its just numbers.

RAJ only seems interested in other players who we seem to kill on the field. Why have that advantage to our hitters when we can just as easily give the advantage to the opposing team?

The player that irks me the most that we’ll still have after today ( and I’ve thought this the last 2 yrs ) is Rollins. We now know ( thanks to his own confession ) that he’s only here for individual statistics, and as Charlie doesn’t require him to hustle and wait out pitches at the plate instead of popping up or flying out, he’s just here to help drag our team down even further. If there is one horrific thing RAJ has done as GM, giving Rollins that 3 yr contract, is it.

Get ready for more average, below-average ball, folks. It isn’t going to get better anytime soon…..

Pardon my arrogance, but I didn’t comment on Jimmy’s statement the other day because it was a really moronic topic.

When you lose however many straight and are embarrassed, anybody who takes aby quote seriously needs an iq injection.

But to say that Jimmy said ONLY thatis the most selective listening since Mr. Lincoln sent out an e mail abolishing slavery, and some of the brothers thought it said it was time to pay Whitey back for the years of clean up this mess at 0% of the minimum wage.

If and when Jimmy actually places a premium on individual stuff in a less trying time, with an actual bona fide offer to move to a contender, THEN its time to worry about his being selfish. But he NEVER said only, and if this is taken as a ringing endorsement of Jimmy, time for my iq injection.

But let’s be real about what a guy says, and the context in which it is said.

I took it as he was proud and happy to be with the Phillies organization long enough and played well enough to climb those lists, and he intends to remain part of this organization for the foreseeable future.

If they sign Utley to a three year deal its malpractice. Ruth got trade. Gretzky got traded. Wilt got traded. But not Chase. It would be unthinkable. Jamie Moyer, Raul Ibanez. He loves giving broken down guys contracts cuz the they’re gooood guys (Don Tollefson voice).

Do you go with the guy that scouts project as a MLB backup, or at best average?

Or do you go with the 6th most productive second baseman in baseball this year, and 4th most productive second baseman over the past calendar year?

Better yet, you can have both. You can have an elite second baseman, but if he gets hurt, you have a capable backup. So then you have say 120 games of excellent + 40 games (at best) average, instead of 160 games of at best average.

Then you can layer on all the other stuff (if you wish) about him being the best Phillie since Schmidt, and the thousands upon thousands of Utley jerseys out there, and the TV deal, etc.

I’m a little torn on this one. I want Chase to have a plaque in Cooperstown. He was on track before the injuries started piling up. He still has a shot. I think his best chance is to win another series – and that won’t happen here. But if Utley wants to stay here, the Phillies should accommodate him. He’s earned it. And Schenkman is right, it’s a good baseball decision if you want to have a chance in 2014.

I would rather go with the guy that will play 150 games, switch hit, and steal bases and not have to worry about the guy that is god’s gift to second basemen for 80-90 games a year over the life of his contract (but “Oh, what an 80-90 games they’ll be!” you say). No! The guy is half a gimp. He’s playing great now but don’t get sucked into that trap. You’re better than that Shmenk- aren’t cha? Stooo-pid.

It would seem like there is zero chance of Ruben playing one team against another for any of his talent. I mean do the Red Sox really care much if the Yankees are actually back in the Young picture? And Brian Cashman knows his club isn’t a contender, even if the Steibrenners think the club is.

Who knows, but it looks so much like the Phils are gonna get stuck holding app parts. I know better, so maybe a better question is will a move, or with 90 minutes left, maybe plural moves do much other than reduce some payroll. Even Nix seems destined to finish the year here. August waivers oughta be nothing but mass congestion to prevent movement by other clubs.

Navarro over Ruiz as a choice….well, I’m not qualified to question Mozeliak…few are, but I dunno about that one. We’ll see how it pans out.

Empire supposedly getting a couple hits on Phil Hughes finally. He’s been inconsistent, no question, real high rep when younger, and a free agent at season’s end, but I’d still like to see him for Mike Young is the Yanks see a purpose to Young. Maybe you get somebody better than Kendrick for equal money for ’14, if he doesn’t work out, you lost little by moving Young. Not that Mike isn’t a half decent player who was once quite decent, but he serves so little purpose here now, what do you have to lose. The guy has thrown some really, really good games. Might actually be a solid 2 or 3 if he settles in So Cal at some point.

45 minutes left until Rube’s rep settles below the equator for what will seem forever. Too bad baseball is your only as good as your last trade because he’ll deserve the rippage HUGE time.

Pirates have tried, at least, reported to have been in on several guys. Wonder if small chance that it is an ace in the hole for their search for offense might be a last minute call on Delmon Young. I guess it comes down to if his offensive game on the whole would be a plus.

Doubtful, but it’s fun thinking about Plan Z this time of day, this date of the year.

Does anyone think Franco can be moved to LF or RF? looking at the potential roster for next year we are kind of locked.
Catcher – Ruiz
1st Base – Howard
2nd Base – Utley
SS – Rollins
3rd – Asche
LF – D.Brown
CF – Revere
RF – ? I think Franco could be a great young bat to bring up

The pool is screaming, “Swime me, swim me, so fater a month of getting totally overdrenched by the buy sell debate that winds up in neutrality…oh, there are 3 minutes left, and delayed announcements, but what the hey…we will offer the following synopsis of Liquidity Season, 2013, Phillies version.

Off season moves, with effective GMing might result in a better team than this straight slope down has gobbled. But only fools believe the Phils can make moves in August. Nobody is clearing waivers. But for now, my thanks to the Phillies organization for recreating another Jerry Wolman-Joe Kuharich era, not to be confused with a Don Dejardins-Roy Ruben era.

It has been a massively joyous experience.

Have fun at confession Sunday, Rube. Even though you’re only half Catholic, you might set a record for most forgiveness asked for in the history of that Catholic faith.

Last season’s Red Sox purge didn’t take place until August 25th, over 3 weeks after the deadline. All those players made it through waivers. My point is not that the Phils should follow that model, just that lot’s of stuff can still happen for the next month.

It’s easier to trade players before the trading deadline, but it doesn’t prevent them from being traded going forward.

I can see not trading Cliff Lee now. Probably makes baseball sense to trade him, but as a fan I’d hate to see him go again. And there’s always April and the offseason. The return for Lee won’t be much better now than next year because of the contract.

I personally would have given Papelbon away to anyone who’d take that ridiculous contract RAJ signed him to. For nothing in return. I’d have thrown in a prospect. We don’t know what the market here was; it’s possible no one would even take him. I will say this, if anyone claims him on waivers in August and Ruben pulls him back, he’s even more of a stooge than I already think he is.

The fact Michael Young is still on this team is insane. Ruben, I’ve never done this job, but I can tell you the first thing I would have done was secure an out on this; if everything else fails lock in a trade partner of last resort, even if the return sucks. Because you had to trade him. All he does now is get in the way of Cody Asche, one of the few prospects your crappy farm system has actually produced of late. It’s not even fair to Michael Young. If any player in MLB had to be moved at the deadline, it was MY. And he’s still here?? And you needed to trade away Chooch to St. Louis. I love Chooch too, but he’s been a ghost since the PED bust. It’s not like you’re re-signing him.

I had a feeling RAJ was so inept he couldn’t even pull off a trade from the other side, as a seller not a buyer. Any clown can spend ownership’s money. It takes a level of competence (that’s clearly lacking) to make an intelligent sell. Or any sell.

I like what the, Sixers are doing. Confession: I liked the Bynum trade last year too. Obviously that didn’t work out. But in 2011-12 the team overachieved to be mediocre. 2012-13 team was worse. Some talent, but at best complementary players. Blow it up and start over, look ahead to a strong 2014 draft.

Phils aren’t in such dire straits, and different sport. They don’t have to blow it up, but for crying out loud do something with the pieces that you can. Two years after being the best team in baseball, this situation is a disgrace. I don’t understand why RAJ still has a job, and how the media here, who is as tough as they come, are giving him a pass.

– they haven’t traded a single prospect worth anything since the first Pence trade.
– they had the strongest draft in a decade
– there are currently (if you count Revere who is hurt) 4 regulars 1 starter and all but Papelbon in the bullpen with less than two years major league experience on the roster. the other guys are Chooch, Jimmy, Hamels, Chase and Howard, and two guys who are one year placeholders instead of long term free agents
– they haven’t spent more than $8mm per year on ANYONE in free agency since December of 2011
– MAG was the first foray into a big internatonal signing, which has worked magic for Texas, Oakland and LA.
– they’ve added through draft or trade: Morgan, Martin, Revere, Joseph, Simon, Lino, JP Crawford
– guys they DEVELOPED are playing in Philly with Franco on the way

Again…this is directed to this guy “Chuck A” who’s posting with MY name. GET YOUR OWN HANDLE, BRO!! I appreciate your comments on here but it would be nice if you actually had the decency to post with your own name…and if your own name is the same as mine then COME UP WITH SOMETHING ELSE!!

And for all the rest of you who are my blog friends (not blog bullies!) … I always post with my avatar so as to completely distinguish myself. I thought those avatars were kind of silly when the new site was launched a few years back…but now I see the value in them.

Catz’ piece was interesting… I’m not giving Ruben a free pass because I think he should have done something (and at this point, anything is better than nothing). Maybe he gets something done via the waiver route but if he doesn’t, I’ll call this trade deadline a failure.

There were more valuable/movable pieces out there than Michael Young… and nothing happened. I think that the current state of baseball is such that unless you’re a clear cut World Series contender with a solid team, there is too much to lose in trading prospects for the opportunity to play in a one-game playoff or a short-series AND if you’re a bona fide contender, you don’t HAVE to do anything (you can be reactionary in your moves). It’s a stale market, for sure. I mean, let’s say the Phillies were closer than they are… do you trade a Jesse Biddle because you’re in the mix? Probably not… best case, you end up as the top wild card and win the playoff. That’s great. Your reward is to play the top seed in a short series with your rotation out of sorts… not optimal. I think that the teams that SHOULD be buyers are the ones towards the top that appear to be turning the corner and there really aren’t too many of those… Baltimore (who was very active) and maybe Pittsburgh (although they still have some holes that are being patched in their rotation and at certain positions but they probably can’t really afford to trade prospects and the Cardinals are right there). It’s a strange market…

I know I wouldn’t sell the farm for a chance to play in a one game playoff. It makes no sense. I think they need to make the first “round” at least a three gamer. That would change trade deadline dynamics.

In fact, if you think about what Ruben said last night on TV, and what I heard some other GM’s say on MLBN, this month could be the most active for trades despite the waiver process, because teams want more time to see how close they really are. Can buyers be relatively assured of missing the one game playoff? Knowing that would add impetus to make deals IMO.

Not sure I agree with that. Why do something just for the sake of doing it?? That makes no sense to me. I sort of felt the way you do a few days ago…that Amaro had better make a move, ANY move. But in thinking about it further, analyzing it, watching the events of yesterday unfold…it became pretty clear to me that holding out for the best possible deal, not bending, was the right course of action. Why on earth should he have traded somebody and gotten garbage back in return?? Just for the sake of making a deal.

He was in a tough spot this July. A few weeks back they were clearly moving towards sell mode. Then they teased us all by climbing back into it so they really had to put the brakes on any possible moves…and rightfully so. Why sell if your team just won 9 of 13 against contending teams?? They HAD to wait at that point. If they hadn’t gone on that mini run before the All Star Break I wonder if Papelbon would have gone to Detroit?? Or M Young somewhere?

I’m still of the belief that Michael Young will be traded. He gave them too little time to work out a deal with the Yankees after announcing that he would go there. I think they’ll try to slip him through waivers to the Yankees. No other team will claim him, because of his NTC, sort of like Cliff last year.

And that’s fine with me. Let him play 1st right now. Keep showcasing him. Asche needs to be given a chance to play. MYoung at first and if he’s traded then Frandsen can play there. If Asche clearly shows he isn’t ready then put Frandsen at 3B and play Nix at 1B. I don’t think any of those combinations are gonna hurt the team any worse than they are hurting right now.

I’m in the camp that believes Michael Young’s AB’s would be better served given to Cody Asche… I like Michael Young and he’s a good player – probably gives us a better chance to win (than Asche) but Young won’t be here next year and we’re wasting our time worrying about winning now because we’re not getting back in it with what we’ve got. If you think that Cody Asche might be able to help this team down the road, regular AB’s right now are important… big league time is critical. Look what happened to Dom when we decided to use him as a part-time player… until he had the opportunity to adjust to big league pitching, he was lost. Once they FINALLY gave him the reins, he was able to do the things that he needed to do to be successful.

I agree that Rube was put in a precarious position but he should have had deals lined up… he should have had things ready to go because anyone with half a brain could look ahead and see 6 in a row against the Tigers and Cardinals. Realistically, the death knell was losing Revere (and then Dom, although the momentum had already begun to shift at that point). Rube knew that it was a huge blow – he said as much – but he’s just not a seller. In his heart of hearts, he’s a believer… he’s a fan of this club just like us and unfortunately, he was too loyal and sat on his hands too long. He has made a lot of moves to hedge against this aging process (not bringing on additional free agents, not trading away talent recently and dabbling in the international markets) but at the end of the day, he can’t pull the trigger on sentimental moves – he’s having a real tough time cutting ties with the guys that brought us five consecutive division titles. At this point, I wonder how we’ll ever get out of this spiral… At a minimum, it’s safe to say that Doc is probably gone next year so we need a #3 starter, we have no real talent coming up and Utley/Rollins aren’t getting any younger and we still have to figure out RF and 3B (and catcher if we let Chooch walk… which he probably won’t want to do). We won’t be able to plug all of those holes and we can’t expect more out of most of the players we’ve got. We absolutely need Howard and Hamels get their acts together, we have to hope that Revere and Brown progress and we have to hope that we can find some guys that can help us right this ship in a hurry.