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"I need this one thing so everyone else must need it too. What kind of shitty framework doesn't include this thing?!"

For the record, I have no use for that thing whatsoever, and I'm glad Catalyst doesn't build it in. I'm also glad Catalyst has a plugin system that lets people put something on CPAN that _you_ can use if you want to.

On the other hand. When people need to start projects and they're looking into which Framework to use, the posters issues and your response are some of the same reasons people stop choosing or looking at Perl.

I love Perl and the Cat folks. But sometimes, the " lets make no decisions or include no requirements by default because everyone wants a different thing" is off putting at best.

As sucky as we say RoR, or Django, or CakePHP are for being inflexible, they becam

Maybe the fix is to make a super duper CatalystX::CRUD thingy, market the hell out of it, and recommend it to the new users.

Meanwhile, people like me, who want to get shit done in our own way don't have to deal with ripping out 100k of scaffolding that the opinionated framework stuck in our app when we said "catalyst.pl MyApp".

I do agree, being newbie friendly is very important. But that's more a question of marketing and and having something available. That

I was pretty sure I'd suffer some flames for it because Perl programmers (me included) do not like to hear bad things and whenever someone says "this is bad", it automatically becomes "no, you suck!" and in most cases it's correct but this isn't a simple dichotomous situation in which either the framework/language is wrong or the user/programmer is wrong.

I don't think Catalyst should have default scaffolding or even built-in scaffolding. I think the Catalyst programmers have much more important things to

You needed to blow off steam, but you are upset that some steam was blown back?

Alright, fair enough. I apologize for that.

I actually have very little complaints toward the Catalyst docs. Usually when I need to ask something with Catalyst, the docs clear it up for me. My docs "complaint" was towards plugins and additions people made, unless that's what you meant, in which case you're right.

I think having a super slick scaffolding tool for Catalyst would be great, as long as it wasn't something I had to work _around_ as a Catalyst user.

The thing about scaffolding is that it's very cool for new users, and absolutely useless for many people doing "real" apps (for some value of real).

Obviously if scaffolding would be automatic and built it, that would definitely be annoying. Having to delete it every time (like I have to arrange the controller POD every time I create a new contro