I would just like to say any protection that will ever be conceived by the Pulishers will and can be patched or worked around. It's only a matter of time. Remember the Unpatchable Windows XP Activation scheme? 4 hours after release time, it was patched. That says a lot. And what about the legal right to make a back-up copy for your own use? If this protection DOES work without any underground help the average user would be rendered incapable of making a back-up. This violates the end-user's rights. More and more people will be using patches and the like, and the Pulishers are just pushing more people to use those underground means.

quote: I would just like to say any protection that will ever be conceived by the Pulishers will and can be patched or worked around. It's only a matter of time. Remember the Unpatchable Windows XP Activation scheme? 4 hours after release time, it was patched. That says a lot. And what about the legal right to make a back-up copy for your own use? If this protection DOES work without any underground help the average user would be rendered incapable of making a back-up. This violates the end-user's rights. More and more people will be using patches and the like, and the Pulishers are just pushing more people to use those underground means.

This was found on CD Freaks and I agree with it entirley!!!!!!!!

It's Nice to be Importent But is more importent to be NICE!!!

Edited by - Laffin Assassin on 05/23/2002 08:55:38

According to Microsoft's coding people, for what it's worth, the activation code was not meant to be foolproof (in truth, I never heard MS claim that it was - others since have made that claim). It was simply meant to cut down on the casual copying by the home user so that person could not use the same XP on more than one computer. I think that it was a very poor PR move by MS, but you know how people get when there is money to be made. There is no activation code on the professional version, which has led many people to claim that they "cracked" the activation code. Most versions that are floating on the internet and other places are XP professional.

Pirates were selling XP on the open market in Asia before the release date of the official version.

In England, as in the U.S., there is no legal right to backup any software that has copy protection on the product. If the code is changed in the copying, which it is with CloneCD, then it is not a legal copy in England or Australia. They have essentially the same law. (Of course, the U.S. law seems to go beyond that.) In essence, the end user's rights are nonexistent with digital media, if it has been copy protected. You cannot violate a right that you do not have!

The limits of these laws are in the process of being tested in the U.S. through the courts and legislature as we write!

I would again advise anyone who wishes to make sure that archival copies are not forever eliminated as copy protections become more effective and prevalent to contact your local and national law makers and lobby for the right to make archival copies. This can be done while still protecting the rights of the software and music companies. However, if we continue to believe in the Pollyanna story that says that man will always be protected from the transgressions of others, the right will be gone forever.

We need look no farther than World War II to see than mankind's rights can tragically eliminated in a hurry. Ask a survivor of the holocaust if any of the 11 million victims of this travesty thought that their right to life would be eliminated by the whim of a "mad man". If governments can take away your life in a systematic manner, taking away your right to copy protected software shouldn't be much of a problem, at all. How quickly we forget! (And I am not equating the two situations).

According to Microsoft's coding people, for what it's worth, the activation code was not meant to be foolproof (in truth, I never heard MS claim that it was - others since have made that claim). It was simply meant to cut down on the casual copying by the home user so that person could not use the same XP on more than one computer. I think that it was a very poor PR move by MS, but you know how people get when there is money to be made. There is no activation code on the professional version, which has led many people to claim that they "*****ed" the activation code. Most versions that are floating on the internet and other places are XP professional.

My reply to this The activation code was meant to be foolproof untill someone Hacked it and put it on the Internet before it was released otherwise what is the point of putting it on in the first place.

Pirates were selling XP on the open market in Asia before the release date of the official version

Also they were selling it on car boots in England

In England, as in the U.S., there is no legal right to backup any software that has copy protection on the product. If the code is changed in the copying, which it is with CloneCD, then it is not a legal copy in England or Australia. They have essentially the same law. (Of course, the U.S. law seems to go beyond that.) In essence, the end user's rights are nonexistent with digital media, if it has been copy protected. You cannot violate a right that you do not have!

My Reply In England we can copy a legaly owned Program weather it is altered or not as long as it is kept by you and is not made for sale and destroyed if you no longer own the original.

The limits of these laws are in the process of being tested in the U.S. through the courts and legislature as we write!

My Reply Ho Ho Ho In process! So that means in about ten years it will get passed and then kicked out and then be put in again, again, again and again just like your Courts and Microsofts anti trust and the rest of your laws and even when it is done that if it is ever. I won't give a toss because your laws don't affect anyone in the UK or anywhere else in the world.

I would again advise anyone who wishes to make sure that archival copies are not forever eliminated as copy protections become more effective and prevalent to contact your local and national law makers and lobby for the right to make archival copies. This can be done while still protecting the rights of the software and music companies. However, if we continue to believe in the Pollyanna story that says that man will always be protected from the transgressions of others, the right will be gone forever.

My Reply Now if you have got off your Soap Box. We don't need to do that in the UK our Members of Parliment are not in big companies Pockets. And we in the UK don't have to be worried about our right to make archival copies we can make them.

We need look no farther than World War II to see than mankind's rights can tragically eliminated in a hurry. Ask a survivor of the holocaust if any of the 11 million victims of this travesty thought that their right to life would be eliminated by the whim of a "mad man". If governments can take away your life in a systematic manner, taking away your right to copy protected software shouldn't be much of a problem, at all. How quickly we forget! (And I am not equating the two situations).

My Reply I do agree with this part of your Ranting In Part and Part only. But why put this on a Forum like ours knowing well that people of every Creed, Religion and Colour visit us and are welcomed to find things out about CDR's and programs and and the latest news on them so if they are Jewish for instance do you think that they want to be reminded of the Holocaust by a single minded ego trip post like you have just done. I don't think so. But that is only my opinion and I am sure other people will feel the same way!

quote: There is no activation code on the professional version, which has led many people to claim that they "cr@cked" the activation code. Most versions that are floating on the internet and other places are XP professional.

Windows XP Professional *DOES* have an activation code burner1000000. It is the XP Professional Corporate that requires no activation.

My reply to this The activation code was meant to be foolproof untill someone Hacked it and put it on the Internet before it was released otherwise what is the point of putting it on in the first place.

And how would you know that? Since from your posts it is obvious that you are not intelligent enough to work for MS (they don't hire people who cannot spell correctly), your answer is pure conjecture (as most of your answers are). I gave you the reason for putting the activation code in my post, but either you could not understand it or you simply refuse to believe it! If this activation code was meant to be foolproof to cut down on piracy, why didn't they include it on XP Professional, the one that most hardcore computer geeks would want? Think! It's not that hard!

quote: Also they were selling it on car boots in England

What is your point? Unless the people in England are more stupid than I think, those were copies of XP Professional, which did not have an activation code.

quote:

My Reply In England we can copy a legaly owned Program weather it is altered or not as long as it is kept by you and is not made for sale and destroyed if you no longer own the original.

Show me where in your copyright law that it states an individual can make a copy of copyrighted material for one's own personal use or is this another case like Tages where it doesn't suit your weird version of reality to bother looking at the truth. In fact, in section 17 of your copyright law, it specifically states that the right to copy is reserved to the owner of the copyright. As a buyer of a copyrighted CD, you do not own the copyright. Now, as I have stated rather clearly, no government is going to go after individuals for protecting their purchases, although these copies are illegal in the U.K. They are only interested in the big fish. However, the rest of us can get caught in that dragnet or aren't you worried about those who don't know anything about CloneCD? Sounds pretty self-centered to me.

quote: My Reply Ho Ho Ho In process! So that means in about ten years it will get passed and then kicked out and then be put in again, again, again and again just like your Courts and Microsofts anti trust and the rest of your laws and even when it is done that if it is ever. I won't give a toss because your laws don't affect anyone in the UK or anywhere else in the world.

I'm not sure what this means in English. You might try editing your posts before you submit.

quote: My Reply Now if you have got off your Soap Box. We don't need to do that in the UK our Members of Parliment are not in big companies Pockets. And we in the UK don't have to be worried about our right to make

Wrong again! On both counts. Your parliament and government is considered one of the most corrupt in the world! The other has already been discussed.

quote: My Reply I do agree with this part of your Ranting In Part and Part only. But why put this on a Forum like ours knowing well that people of every Creed, Religion and Colour visit us and are welcomed to find things out about CDR's and programs and and the latest news on them so if they are Jewish for instance do you think that they want to be reminded of the Holocaust by a single minded ego trip post like you have just done. I don't think so. But that is only my opinion and I am sure other people will feel the same way!

Anyway Enough Said Laffin Assassin

Oh joy! To have a buffoon agree with me! Well, at least your posts are always good for a couple of laughs. Just remember, they are not laughing with you, they are laughing at you! Unfortunately, there are new people who come to the forum and they deserve good info, not the truth according to you. Everyone is entitled to their opinion and I have a right to disagree with your poorly formed thought processes, if I so desire, just as much as you have a right to submit them and think them brilliant. Frankly, for you to call my post a ranting and lecture me about singled minded posts, after the BS that you post on this forum, has got to be the height of hypocrisy.

I am through dealing with you. You are not worthy of my time. I am sure that the newcomers will figure you out as the veterans already have. It is my misfortune to have a high and abiding regard for the truth. It sometimes traps me into seeking to show other people what they do not wish to see. However, no one can make another person see anything that they do not wish to see.

P. S. Actually, most people of Jewish origin do want to be reminded and they want other people to be reminded, also. So that it may never occur again! However, that logic would not occur to you.

Clint you know and I know and everyone else who Legaly purchessed the Windows XP Pro that it did need the Activation code I wonder if he had a legal version?

Burner1000000 My Reply

And how would you know that? Since from your posts it is obvious that you are not intelligent enough to work for MS (they don't hire people who cannot spell correctly), your answer is pure conjecture (as most of your answers are). I gave you the reason for putting the activation code in my post, but either you could not understand it or you simply refuse to believe it! If this activation code was meant to be foolproof to cut down on piracy, why didn't they include it on XP Professional, the one that most hardcore computer geeks would want? Think! It's not that hard! 1---I don't want to work for Microsoft 2---Whoops I will have to use a speller checker like you. 3---They did include it on Windows Xp if you owned a legaly Purchessed version instead of spending the money on a spellchecker you would know this. 4---I would have thoght (oh another spelling mistake I will have to get a spell checker)that the so called hardcore computer geeks would have gone for the XP Professional *Corporate* version which is the one that does not need the code. 5---So you can spell properly(with a spell checker) write it down in a long dragged out form and even then get it Wrong Oh Dear.

What is your point? Unless the people in England are more stupid than I think, those were copies of XP Professional, which did not have an activation code.

1---I have already told you The Pro version does need the code. 2---So now you are saying people in England are more stupid than you think. I agree I think we must be. Sending our Special Forces and our Marines into Afghanistan to do a job that your so called Special forces could not do but at least we will do it without shooting our own Troops. Remember the Middle East we more worried about getting shot by Yanks than Iraqies but that is what you get when you send boys to do a mans job. Enough said.

Show me where in your copyright law that it states an individual can make a copy of copyrighted material for one's own personal use or is this another case like Tages where it doesn't suit your weird version of reality to bother looking at the truth. In fact, in section 17 of your copyright law, it specifically states that the right to copy is reserved to the owner of the copyright. As a buyer of a copyrighted CD, you do not own the copyright. Now, as I have stated rather clearly, no government is going to go after individuals for protecting their purchases, although these copies are illegal in the U.K. They are only interested in the big fish. However, the rest of us can get caught in that dragnet or aren't you worried about those who don't know anything about CloneCD? Sounds pretty self-centered to me.

1---It does not say it anwhere that you cannot make a back-up which is different to copy. 2---aren't you worried about those who don't know anything about CloneCD of course I am that is why I give them my advise that is based on my experiance (oh my spelling it must be this bloody microst keyboard i will have to get a spellchecker)It must have been made in the USA it trys to correct everything I type!

I'm not sure what this means in English. You might try editing your posts before you submit.

1---Only because you know it is right You said "The limits of these laws are in the process of being tested in the U.S. through the courts and legislature as we write!"

So I will put my reply below again

Ho Ho Ho In process! So that means in about ten years it will get passed and then kicked out and then be put in again, again, again and again just like your Courts and Microsofts anti trust and the rest of your laws and even when it is done that if it is ever. I won't give a toss because your laws don't affect anyone in the UK or anywhere else in the world thank God.

I will add my reply to this one as even the a perfect person like you makes mistakes if you check your posting you will see that you did not copy the whole of the quote. Oh Dear me

I said "Now if you have got off your Soap Box. We don't need to do that in the UK our Members of Parliment are not in big companies Pockets. And we in the UK don't have to be worried about our right to make archival copies we can make them.

You replied "Wrong again! On both counts. Your parliament and government is considered one of the most corrupt in the world! The other has already been discussed".

1---Can you remember Watergate. 2---How many more I dread to think. 3---Where do you get Your parliament and government is considered one of the most corrupt in the world! Is it us that are doing deals with Microsoft so they won't move to Ireland or Canada what a joke your Government is and you say ours are bent get a lif!(Whoops wheres the spell checker)

Oh joy! To have a buffoon agree with me! Well, at least your posts are always good for a couple of laughs. Just remember, they are not laughing with you, they are laughing at you! Unfortunately, there are new people who come to the forum and they deserve good info, not the truth according to you. Everyone is entitled to their opinion and I have a right to disagree with your poorly formed thought processes, if I so desire, just as much as you have a right to submit them and think them brilliant. Frankly, for you to call my post a ranting and lecture me about singled minded posts, after the BS that you post on this forum, has got to be the height of hypocrisy.

1---As for been a buffoon I am far from it but there again I am not on a Ego trip either so I don't have to proove it. 2---I didn't say I agreed with you I said I do agree with this part of your Ranting In Part and Part only. 3---I am glad you find it funny but I am very surpised that someone like you with his head so far up his own,Microsofts and his Governments arse that he has time to take it out and laugh 4---You say "Unfortunately, there are new people who come to the forum and they deserve good info, not the truth according to you. My Reply I know there are new people who come to the forum and do deserve good info and when they ask questions they expect to get them not answers that are just a Guess(I wish I had A spelling checker would you lend me yours because it looks like it is perfict)and if there is a better or easier way of doing something why not inform them that you think it is better or easier? 5---The last bit of this message I will not even bother to reply to as I cannot see the point in letting you get your spellchecker out again and boring everyone with your 20000000 to every post full of as you say BS.

You say "I am through dealing with you. You are not worthy of my time. I am sure that the newcomers will figure you out as the veterans already have. It is my misfortune to have a high and abiding regard for the truth. It sometimes traps me into seeking to show other people what they do not wish to see. However, no one can make another person see anything that they do not wish to see."

1---You are through dealing with me! I very much doubt it an Ego trip chaser like you could not let me have the last word maybe for now but you cannot resist comming back and having another go at me. 2---I am not worthy of your time. Oh so you are a bloodsucking Lawyer or a US Polititian (Is that spelling right?) 3---You are sure that the newcomers will figure you out as the veterans already have. Yeah I think they will and some of them already have I have had quite a few E-mails thanking me for my help. 4---So you are a Veteran are you after registering on the 10/5/01 that makes you one does it. By the way Yanks cannot even get the Date right They have to put the Month before the Day don't they get anything right we taught them to do. 5---It is your misfortune to have a high and abiding regard for the truth. Oh You can't be a Lawyer then or a American Polititian I take it back what I said about them. 6---It sometimes traps you into seeking to show other people what they do not wish to see. Are you sure you are not a Lawyer? 7---However, no one can make another person see anything that they do not wish to see. No Your not a Lawyer I believe they can do that.

You say "P. S. Actually, most people of Jewish origin do want to be reminded and they want other people to be reminded, also. So that it may never occur again! However, that logic would not occur to you." 1--- I will not even reply to this it is only dragging it up I have made my fellings quite clear in the past post 2--- However, that logic would not occur to me? What logic there is no Logic about that. 3--- And the most importent one not on this Forum it is meant for CDR-INFO!!!!!!!!

I do appologise to any other of our USA friends and I have quite a few, it is just the attitude of this Ego Chaser I am having a dig at. And I am sure you will see another 2000000 word Reply. Laffin Assassin

Laffin I would just like to say I for one would thank you for the help you have given I am sure there are many like me and as you said we do not want to be reminded about WWII I lost friends in that conflict they are horrible things best forgotten. I still love your Humour and keep the good work up and don't let a Knob-Head like him upset you and I know you won't. Do I need one of these Spell Check things I am 67 years young. Kind Regards Zoom

No Mate I don't think you need a Spellchecker. Thanks for the Comments and and not to worry I will be here for a long time.( I hope)making you smile and helping with your little problems. Take Care Laffin Assassin

quote: those were copies of XP Professional, which did not have an activation code.

burner1000000, I promise you that Windows XP Professional has an activation code!

I have bought a copy of XP Pro and it *NEEDS* the activation code... I really think you are confusing XP Professional with XP Professional *Corporate*.

I own both versions of XP Pro: Corporate and Professional, and can tell you from experience .

_________________ You get what you pay for...

Edited by - Clint on 05/26/2002 06:37:35

Clint,

Sorry about the confusion. I am sure that you are right about the final released versions. I do not own or use either one. Many of the early pirated versions of XP were based upon the late betas. There is virtually no difference between the last beta, which was leaked on the internet, and the final product. In fact, some have claimed that they are identical. Although the betas may have contained activation code (who knows), it was either disabled or not present in many cases. XP Professional code was used principally for the betas, according to reliable sources. I did not test the betas, so I must take their word for it. In the months before the release of XP several reviewers of the betas stated that only the home version would have copy protection. This was to prevent casual theft, which is really the only kind of theft that is preventable at the present time. Either MS made a decision to include the activation code in XP Pro or the reviewers were wrong.

I should have checked to make sure that my statement was true for the final version, but that does not invalidate my statement that early bootleg copies were probably versions of XP Pro which did not need the activation code.

For others who are interested in info about the activation code, here are some links on the subject are:

They include an article by a person who is appreciative of the activation code and the amount of money lost by casual copying. Casual copiers are not likely to use circumvention methods.

One of them includes the statement by MS that they were fully aware that someone would be able to develop a method of circumvention. This is obvious to the most casual observer. MS is not out to stop the hard core pirate by themselves. I am sure that they have calculated the costs and are smart enough to wait until it is more feasable financially. They just wanted to increase their cash revenue.

IMHO, this is a mistake on MS's part, but they probably don't think so. Despite what some people think, MS has plenty of very bright people working for them. I don't imagine that they care what I or other people think.

quote: Laffin I would just like to say I for one would thank you for the help you have given I am sure there are many like me and as you said we do not want to be reminded about WWII I lost friends in that conflict they are horrible things best forgotten. I still love your Humour and keep the good work up and don't let a Knob-Head like him upset you and I know you won't. Do I need one of these Spell Check things I am 67 years young. Kind Regards Zoom

It is very sad that you want to forget the atrocities of the past. Of course, England's indifference to the matters going on in Europe led to much of the problems for the Jewish people and almost cost your nation its freedom (The U.S. must share in the blame, as well). If it were not for the strength of Churchill and the the might of the U.S. - supplying the entire allied forces with military supplies for several years, you would be speaking German right now.

As for a spell checker, this site does not have a spell checker. It does, however, allow you to edit and review your posts. Mistakes will be made by all, but a responsible person will catch most of them (at least a responsible English speaking person - I have much respect for the non-native English speakers on this board). This is something that any English speaking person should be able to do. There are many non-native English speaking posters on this forum who try very hard to post intelligible posts. The least the English speaking posters can do is be a good role model for them. I always tell people that an intelligent person does not need a spell checker. After all, a spell checker will not catch errors that a poster on this thread made, such as the difference between weather and whether. I tell the students that I work with at a leading institution of higher learning on the West Coast of the U.S. that spelling errors are a sign of laziness or ignorance (which is generally caused by laziness). I do not teach English. My areas of expertise are mathematics and computer science, so I have no vested interest in the English language, per se. It is, however, very difficult to take a person seriously who does not have command of his/her own language. I noticed that no European has jumped in to defend your fellow countryman. Not even Clint, who is articulate and well informed, wants to venture into this area.

If you were an honest man, you would jump on your countryman for the obvious dribble that he produced in his response to my post. But you didn't. Why? The answer is obvious. I will leave you with that thought and wish you the best.

quote: those were copies of XP Professional, which did not have an activation code.

burner1000000, I promise you that Windows XP Professional has an activation code!

I have bought a copy of XP Pro and it *NEEDS* the activation code... I really think you are confusing XP Professional with XP Professional *Corporate*.

I own both versions of XP Pro: Corporate and Professional, and can tell you from experience .

_________________ You get what you pay for...

Edited by - Clint on 05/26/2002 06:37:35

Clint,

Sorry about the confusion. I am sure that you are right about the final released versions. I do not own or use either one. Many of the early pirated versions of XP were based upon the late betas. There is virtually no difference between the last beta, which was leaked on the internet, and the final product. In fact, some have claimed that they are identical. Although the betas may have contained activation code (who knows), it was either disabled or not present in many cases. XP Professional code was used principally for the betas, according to reliable sources. I did not test the betas, so I must take their word for it. In the months before the release of XP several reviewers of the betas stated that only the home version would have copy protection. This was to prevent casual theft, which is really the only kind of theft that is preventable at the present time. Either MS made a decision to include the activation code in XP Pro or the reviewers were wrong.

I should have checked to make sure that my statement was true for the final version, but that does not invalidate my statement that early bootleg copies were probably versions of XP Pro which did not need the activation code.

For others who are interested in info about the activation code, here are some links on the subject are:

They include an article by a person who is appreciative of the activation code and the amount of money lost by casual copying. Casual copiers are not likely to use circumvention methods.

One of them includes the statement by MS that they were fully aware that someone would be able to develop a method of circumvention. This is obvious to the most casual observer. MS is not out to stop the hard core pirate by themselves. I am sure that they have calculated the costs and are smart enough to wait until it is more feasable financially. They just wanted to increase their cash revenue.

IMHO, this is a mistake on MS's part, but they probably don't think so. Despite what some people think, MS has plenty of very bright people working for them. I don't imagine that they care what I or other people think.

Edited by - burner1000000 on 05/26/2002 17:30:00

Thats fine burner1000000, we all make mistakes Yes I agree with you about MS making the Product Activation a mistake. Thanks for the links