News and views of Constance Cumbey concerning "Radical Middle", New Age Movement, Communitarianism, "planetary humanism," "global governance," European Union, Javier Solana, Jeremy Rifkin, "New Age Politics," law in the USA, combined with life in general -- sometimes humorous, sometimes not!

Wednesday, October 16, 2013

Major earthquake in Philippines; Economic earthquake in Washington -- the times, they appear apocalyptic

The United States government has been in a form of "shutdown" since October 1st. Looming today is the spectre of tomorrow's "governmental default." Immediately after the stock market closed yesterday, financial rating service THE FITCH GROUP announced it was placing the country on a AAA negative watch list.

I don't know which faction I am angriest at: the "Affordable Health Care" with its forced contraception service payments being forced upon conscientious religious objectors and the fines for those unable to afford expensive health insurance (even those with same will have annual "donuts" of moneys that must be paid out of pocket first before insurance coverage kicks in) OR the TEA PARTY.

In my opinion, this may be a charade that inures to the benefit of the WORLD GOVERNMENT, Oooops, GLOBAL GOVERNANCE proponents.

Something ugly is brewing in the winds. I am hearing too much talk of "global currency reset." I have had panicked phone calls from clients re same and found plenty of discussion of same on the internet.

The slightly toned down G-20 websites are openly talking about a "TIME OF TRANSITION" or THE TRANSITION.

This ominous Washington possible default news has pushed to the back pages items that would otherwise be critical worldwide news: A devastating 7.2 earthquake in the Central Philippines. A devastating typhoon hit Japan the same day. Both happened yesterday. "Earthquakes in divers places" and/or "upon the seas distress of nations"?? Forgive me for even daring to think it!

This was the talk of what the New Agers hoped would happen to our government back in the early to later 1980s with "Harmonic Convergence," "Crystal Earth Papers," and Barbara Marx Hubbard's infamous THE BOOK OF CO-CREATION: THE BOOK OF REVELATION.

Jose Arguelles, a co-laborer with Barbara Marx Hubbard on creating events designed to CHANGE TIMES to a 13 month calendar died in Australia in 2011. The biographical books about his life tell us that he was raised a Lutheran but deeply immersed himself in the writings of Helena Petrovna Blavatsky and Alice Ann Bailey, inter alia, as an adult. He was the one who started the 2012 movement.

Since then all have been talking about EMERGENCE and THE SHIFT.

I don't know about the others. I pray I am wrong, but the events of October 2013 look like the long delayed events of the New Agers to me. Same sex marriages encouraged with additional leave days for military personnel entering into same?

I don't like to quote Theosophical writers such as Yeats, but for those who reject Book of Daniel, Book of Revelation plain warnings, how about Yeats' line: "WHAT STRANGE BEAST IS THIS, ITS HOUR COME ROUND AT LAST,SLOUCHES TOWARD BETHLEHEM WAITING TO BE BORN"??!!

This all looks apocalyptic to me. All ten virgins were sleeping. All ten virgins eventually woke up. Five had enough oil in their lamp to go meet their Lord, five did not.

The agreement would create new guidelines for everything from food safety to fracking, financial markets, medical prices, copyright rules and Internet freedom.

The TPP negotiations have been criticized by politicians and advocacy groups alike for their secrecy. The few aspects of the partnership leaked to the public indicate an expansive agenda with highly limited congressional oversight.

Read more at http://www.wnd.com/2013/10/obama-secretly-signing-away-u-s-sovereignty/#ewTzblu44ThsdFmo.99

Hightower wrote the deal would “transform Internet service providers into a private, Big Brother police force, empowered to monitor our ‘user activity,’ arbitrarily take down our content and cut off our access to the Internet.”

Last night I fell asleep with the TV on, on the Fox news channel. I recall being about 1/2 awake and hearing a commercial for the "internet of things".

Constance, As I said in my comments earlier, even if they resolve this and most thought they would at the 11th hour, the damage has been done.

The international players are questioning our stability. This looks like a deliberate attempt to gradually do that. It started with the S&P downgrade and a threat from IMF, China and Fitch's rating service.

This was a little bandaid on a gaping wound and will not be a long term solution. On the contrary, it will allow the administration to take on more debt. That is exactly the opposite of what the US needs when servicing our debt has become unsustainable.

It's all part of the plan to usher in global currency over the coming years.

In the short term everyone is relieved but that relief will be short-lived since the underlying problems have not been addressed.

A fellow I knew once who travelled a lot and had been in China said they have TWO currencies, one for trade abroad, and one of no value outside of China, for use inside China. Perhaps we should do the same.

And get rid of the federal reserve. Central banks are a bad deal. Constitution says Congress is to mint money and so forth, and no indication it can delegate this job.

It doesn't matter if money is backed by gold or anything or not. Money is anything people accept as currency instead of direct barter.

Was it a Cisco ad? They (I consult with them here is San Jose, CA) are driving the internet of things as part of their core technology. They can give anything the size of a grain of rice an IP address and connect it to the internet. The chip in your forehead could connect you to the entire world.....

A whistleblower who has worked on that program says yes and he wants you to know exactly what has been going on.

Would you care if I told you that the program was aimed at controlling fundamentalist Muslims?

How about fundamentalist Christians?

Here’s the backstory. In 2012, Arizona State Universityʼs Center for Strategic Communication or CSC was awarded a $6.1 million dollar research grant by DARPA or the Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency.

The goal of the project according to ASUʼs website is to “study the neurobiology of narrative comprehension, validate narrative theories and explore the connection between narrative and persuasion.”

According to documents leaked to us, this project integrates insights from three mutually-informing theoretical terrains.In short, the goal of the program is to combat and change religious narratives because of their role in “extremist behavior.”

Whistleblower: Yeah, I thought that it was benign. They told me it was about trying to figure out what parts of the brain are affected by narrative persuasion. Just to figure it out just for academic reasons. So we looked at narrative transportation which is basically how an individual is transported into a narrative, how they understand it…kind of like when you read a good book you get really enthralled with it.

At its core, the program attempts to map the brain to determine which portions of the brain allow you to accept a narrative presented to you. It’s called narrative theory.

Mapping this network will lead to a fuller understanding of the influence narrative has on memory, emotion, theory of mind, identity and persuasion, which in turn influence the decision to engage in political violence or join violent groups or support groups ideologically or financially.

Phase I is to map the Narrative Comprehension Network using a set of stimuli designed from the point of view of two different religious cultures.

Phase III, it investigates possibilities for literally disrupting the activity of the NCN through Transcranial Magnetic Stimulation.

Ben: Phase III is fairly interesting. I noticed in the documentation it says lets not talk too much about this because who knows if we’ll ever get there. But when you do read what Phase III is it is a little surprising, it’s called Transcranial Magnetic Stimulation.

Much more....http://benswann.com/government-program-to-control-religious-thought/

Christine, are those people over at Daily Kos sane? Do they really believe that Tea Party people have a place they get together to conspire somewhere? Or that they are all bought off with Koch money? That they all get together to try to make Obamee look bad so that they get into office?

I cannot believe the childishness of the comments. It's as if they all had a lobotomy.

1. the data mining in common core incl. stuff that SHOULD NOT have relevance to education if that education isn't about control freakism by the larger society or the govt. or some element piggy backing on the govt. (such as Agenda 21). While tracking bad behavior might seem a good idea, there is no provision listed for erasing or noting when behavior changed, so info that was once right, may be dead wrong about the person later.

Noting bad behavior has always been a part of school interaction with parents, but this is more like a permanent record.

Teaching them to manipulate is training those who are psychopathically inclined to develop the tools of their, ah, trade, earlier than they might do so on their own.

The typical psychopath is too clever to do overt violence when they can be caught, and are often in politics, management and other situations of power, they gravitate to it. There are books out now on dealing with this phenomenon.

2. narrative susceptibility influencing may not be that powerful, except on those who think in such terms. A lot of "narratives" in Christian and Moslem contexts are off track with The Bible and the koran, which in the latter case is why there are such things as moderate moslems.

you could have no narrative capability left, and simply hang on to key concepts (God exists, Jesus is God Incarnate, died for our sins rose from the dead is still alive is coming back, expects us to live pure and show mercy, and not worship false gods; that is not a story line that is just facts comparable to govt. exists, it does this and that, expects us to pay taxes to finance this and that, if you go out in the rain you get wet, eat bad food you get sick, take medicine to get well.

narrative can help apply some of these facts, but it also can be how a house of cards is built that step by step goes away from the facts into something that is a warp.

The INTENT of this program is obviously applicable to derail Christian belief and right behavior and values, but will only work on those for whom these are a narrative they are writing themselves into the script of which.

3. never mind the conspiracy arguments just follow the money (and yes Koch and others have financed and hijacked tea party segments) and NOTICE WHAT THE POLITICIAN ACTUALLY SAID.

If you think the story was made up, go look for confirmation or disproof elsewhere.

IMF has been playing this game for a long time now, and they gained control of the water in The Great Lakes. Read the details, and this is from secret IMF documents Palast got ahold of, first they pretended they didn't exist until he posted them, then they said they weren't going to talk about them.

Once a country is in the pits because of these games and rioting the IMF can impose more controls. Assets get stripped and sold to IMF cronies, Enron was a recipient at one point, Citibank plays a role.

These are the days of the third horseman as someone else figured out. But with the viruses and other things, you can get the fourth horseman coming along soon.

Then the crustal displacement that ends Revelation chapter 6, notice those people hiding in caves and calling on mountains to hide them, and google DUMBS. They fear the wrath of the Lamb probably because these monsters are the dominionist pseudo Christians.

While chips are bad ideas in themselves, they are not needed, nor is socialism of any kind needed, to have the antichrist control buying and selling. It could (and probably would because of sin of pride and vainglory and ambition greed angles) be a total laissez faire economy, with one proviso, the only ones who can legally engage in it are those who have a tattoo showing they have worshipped the antichrist or his image. It could be high tech, but it could be clubs, swords and barter in the bazaar as well. Wouldn't matter.

Christine, you do have a habit of trying to interpret for others what someone else has written.

Thank you for your opinion about something or other.

My post was about the scientific work being done to manipulate the physical reality of what the brain does, how it may affect manipulation of believers and manipulation of student mental actions of topics.

If you have a question about those things, perhaps others can give their views.

I did not "interpret" your words,and am quite surprised you see it that way.

Frankly your reaction is as if you had said "it is going to rain," and I said, "okay, its going to rain, now we should check for leaks, wear a raincoat, move plants in pots that like dryer soil under the porch roof, worry about this, don't worry about that, make changes to prevent harm, etc." and you were to respond "why are you putting words in my mouth? I said none of that. This interpretation of my words is presumptious."

I took the information you presented, and went from there, to the potential of such brain mapping to be used for influence to attack Christian belief in the brain of the believer, which is exactly what is the cause for concern,

and detailed that it might not work for that effect, if the core beliefs are not held as a narrative but as any other facts are held in the brain. (And there is probably more to faith than just brain matter anyway.)

Please try to not view yourself and your words as the center of whatever. If you present information here or anywhere else, comment on or extrapolation from it is not an attempt to translate it or put words in your mouth or whatever.

Why? because of the DIRECT QUOTE from the politician at issue. That's why.

Kos source FOX NEWS.

If you'd bothered to read it before criticizing on knee jerk grounds, you'd have seen the video. Here is the link to youtubehttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ugHYHHRxG7cwhere you will hear his words, that the Kos article repeats in print:

"The reason the government is shut down is Obamacare is unfair, it's unaffordable, it's unworkable, every single day there's more evidence of that coming out. House Republicans have remained strong in saying we are not going to let this bill go forward. We're not going to allow this to be inflicted on the American people. [...]I think that almost every member of the House Republican conference, if not all of them, is deeply concerned about Obamacare, and knows that we have to do something before January 1 to stop it.

Then, less than sixty seconds later, he admitted that this strategy was doomed:

Well, everybody knows that we're not going to be able to repeal this law until 2017, and that we have to win the Senate and win the White House."

I got the link from another location or email I forget which.

Proverbs says something like, "he who answers a matter before he has heard it, it is to him a shame and disgrace." Chinese proverb something about no investigation, no right to comment.

I don't *need* to go read the story at Daily Kos because I already know in advance that it will be skewed to the left, and based on the name of the hyperlink, skewed to make the "last stand" efforts of some real conservatives against our commie dictator to look like some horrible, America-destroying act of rebellion, when in fact the opposite is true.

And Fox News is not much better as a news source anymore, in my opinion. They are in the back pocket of some rich Islamic (Saudi I think) supporters. Their news is skewed as well, not as much as Daily Kos, but in a way that ignores some pretty big stories, especially stories that would shine the light of truth on Islam and it's plans against us.

They (Fox) also report items that cater to the weird, perverse, and baser parts of our natures. Some of their reports disgust me. I no longer watch Fox News Channel.

Anon 4:06I agree that Fox News, though it's the only"conservative" news outlet on cable, is everybit as biased as all the mainstream liberaloutlets, only with a more patriotic front.Big surprise: Our news sources are all in thepocket of the Elite rich atheistic, socialistic,communistic, masonic, anti-christian, selfproclaimed enlightened ones.

But my Bible informs me correctly, and the Holy Spirit is the Spirit of Truth, and it says thatthose who sow confusion will reap the whirlwind.

the first part discusses gnosticism and details how it would take words with one meaning in Christianity, and reinterpret them with another.

And this is what the New Age does when it plays with a Christian facade or tries to infiltrate Christianity.

This book was written by a man who later apostasized somewhat, but it has nothing in it that reflects that. I think his apostasy has its origins in failing to take into account the effects of The Fall which he details on p. 189, as

"the GUILT AND CULPABILITY of their sins was not transmitted to their posterity, but the corrupting consequence to human nature was transmitted. Death was both physically and morally CORRUPTING CONSEQUENCE TO HUMAN NATURE. Death was both physically and morally corrupting to human nature, SINCE THE SOUL AND BODY WERE DESIGNED IN THEIR NATURAL STATE TO BE TOGETHER."

(sorry, I can't do italics, the html tags I did can't be accepted because "Tag is not closed) and I don't remember how to do that. I can only do caps for emphasis.)

Then he forgot about this, and decided the problematic human behavior in laity and clergy etc., were a fault of the structure of churches and society which in turn reflected something about the Christian God and decided an overhaul of this was needed, which is ridiculous, though I think he still clings to Jesus Christ.

The Fall is detailed in the Torah, in the second chapter of the book we Christians call Genesis in English.

pagan and occult elements, mostly via Nazi presence, in the American space program (which goes far to explain all that greek mythology in naming of programs, etc.) speaker not a Christian but an excellent researcher.

A-albionic was a conspiracy site. It looks as if the person who ran it decided to clean out his library. If you have research material, you might want to look at how he set up an auction site which seems successful.

For the those who have or had any doubts about the “Occupy” movement as being New Age aka New Spirituality, I submit the following. The site identified as www.occupytheearth.net is now rerouted to http://reclaimtheearth.net, which is very obviously New Age. Check out the video “It All Goes Together”, narrated by Alan Watts. Here are some excerpts:

1:38-45: …in any lump of rock floating around in space there is implicit human intelligence…

3:07-13: …it becomes absolutely obvious to you that you are continuous with the universe…

3:41-48: …Well, in a few years it will be a matter of common sense to very many people that we are one with the universe…

Note that Watts is describing the ‘immanent’ aspect of panentheism and not pantheism, as some may think. This is consistent with Alice Bailey (sourcing this from HP Blavatsky) for just as the body of the human is the “not-self”, as opposed to the soul/spirit, which is the “self”, the same applies to all matter. However, this does not mean that matter has no function, for “matter, being inspired by spirit, conforms”, [A Treatise on Cosmic Fire, p 148], providing the means (the vehicle) by which spirit can evolve:

…The development of spirit can be only expressed as yet in terms of the evolution of matter, and only through the adequacy of the vehicle, and through the suitability of the sheath, the body or form, can the point of spiritual development reached in any way be appraised… [Cosmic Fire, pp 49-50].

Yet, it’s the ‘transcendent’ aspect of the Theosophical schema of panentheism that ultimately destroys all matter:

“…[T]he first Logos [ED: "the Father"] is called Destroyer, because He is abstraction, if viewed from below upwards [ED: from the point of view of creation / the ‘immanent’ aspect]. His work is the synthesis of Spirit with Spirit, their eventual abstraction from matter, and their unification with their cosmic source [the ‘transcendent’ aspect]. Hence also He is the one who brings about pralaya [ED: death; cf. p 128] or the disintegration of form, – the form from which the Spirit has been abstracted” [Cosmic Fire, pp 148-149].

"in any lump of rock floating around in space there is implicit human intelligence…"

absurd.

The rest of it sounds a lot like the gnostic notion of divine spark trapped in matter that has to evolve away from matter.

But this isn't exactly panentheism, because the latter distinguishes between God and creation, while affirming the creation is good and loved by God.

The key distinction starting point between gnosticism and the Judaeo Christian revelation, is the essential goodness of the physical creation, denied by the former affirmed by the latter. The denial of its goodness results in all kinds of crazy stuff, and ironically can include identification of God with matter the physical realm, pantheism, if He is viewed as involved in some kind of evolution.

This kind of thinking is not unlike the Baghavad Gita, where the protagonist gives all these lectures adding up to nothing is real, no one really exists, all is illusion, so kill the enemy (NOT normal legitimate reasons like remember what evil they did, why we have a war on in the first place, but, there is no killer, no killed, so kill them.)

It is amazing that supposedly the Baghavad Gita is viewed as such wisdom when in fact it could be used to promote every abomination on earth, because nothing is real, and nothing really matters. It doesn't even make sense in terms of notions of karmic debt over evil to be worked out. This is a very evil book.

I don’t intend on being unkind, but I intend on being blunt. Your confusion about matters leads you to spread confusion and disinformation on this site. I understand that the Eastern Orthodox adheres to a form of panentheism, but, it is not the same as the Gnostic / New Age version. I don’t wish to speak on the EO version, because it is not germane to the subject of this blog. It would behoove you to understand the differences between the two.

Wikipedia does a fairly good job of describing panentheism – to include the EO view:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panentheism

Essentially, panentheism is the view of God as both “all is IN God” (God envelopes the universe, wholly outside – the ‘transcendent’ aspect) and “God is IN all” (a divine spark / seed, etc. is encased within all matter – the ‘immanent’ aspect).

Really, Christine you don't HAVE to respond to virtually every comment on this site. I'd prefer you not respond to mine, as I weary of trying to unwind the confusion you inevitably cause.

It's how we see things rather than what is. http://www.climatedepot.com/2013/10/18/new-study-2013-ranks-as-one-of-the-least-extreme-us-weather-years-ever-many-bad-weather-events-at-historically-low-levels/

It's how we see things rather than what is. http://www.climatedepot.com/2013/10/18/new-study-2013-ranks-as-one-of-the-least-extreme-us-weather-years-ever-many-bad-weather-events-at-historically-low-levels/

I don't respond to every comment on this site. And just exactly what is the confusion I create?

"It would behoove you to understand the differences between the two." say WHAT?! I am the one who pointed out the differences when you were arguing that EO is bordering on pantheism for being panentheistic. I guess you got around to reading that wikipedia article in more detail.

and having a divine spark trapped inside a supposedly nasty bit of evil matter is NOT panentheism. Because that pits God/divine spark against matter.

In case anyone doesn't get the EO difference from gnosticism, here is the wikipedia description, and frankly, I don't think panentheism is an appropriate term to describe this. If this is panentheism, then the Bailey crap is not. IF the bailey crap is panentheism, then the EO position, rooted in the Scripture ("Do I not fill heaven and earth says The Lord?" at this point I forget which Prophet reported this) is NOT panentheism.Frankly I think a lot of totally incompatible notions are being lumped under one term panentheism, which is no way to engage in categorizing things.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panentheism#Eastern_Christianity

Craig, God being in all is NOT about divine spark encased in matter. THE LATTER CANNOT BE PROPERLY CALLED PANENTHEISM EITHER, PROPERLY, because then you don't have God interacting with and close to all matter, as Creator and supporter, but rather some bit of Him trapped in something inimical to Him.

God being IN all is not about being like a worm eating its way out of a fruit, more like water in and around a fish, but the fish is not the water neither is the water the fish.

zuukie you showed your identity (I already figured it out) on the microeffect chat room by using anon's typical complaint, I guess you like to spout some bit of info AS LONG AS NO ONE ANALYZES OR DRAWS CONCLUSIONS OR SHOWS THE ACHILLES HEEL OF THE NAM SHOWN IN ANY OF IT.

A lot of "prophecy experts" focus on European politics, but they forget something. Prophetic focus is NOT on Europe or America but on Israel in general and Jerusalem in particular. Chris White on youtube does a good refutation of the notion of the need for a revived Roman Empire. look into that.Rome was not limited to Europe but the Middle East also. IF there is a revived Roman Empire, it might not ever incl. any Euro country.

What are you going to do if WW 3 eradicates all technology to speak of, and there can never be RFID chips for the mark of the beast?throw in the towel and decide The Bible is wrong? I hope not.

Remember, you don't need socialism, you don't need RFID you don't need ANY of your favorite boogeymen, for the antichrist and the mark to get into play.

Think outside the box and pray.

And remember, it doesn't matter if Christ is coming tomorrow or 10,000 years later. WE MUST ALL LIVE LIVES OF WATCHFULNESS AND READY TO MEET HIM AT ANY TIME, BECAUSE WE WILL FACE HIM WHEN WE DIE. And that can happen at any time.

So we got saved what did we do with our salvation? campaign to take food out of the mouths of the poor on welfare and to cut out school lunch programs and to give more money to military industrial complex ripoff artists with globalists agendas who promise us American supremacy? and perish the thought of taxing Wall Street transactions or restoring Glass-Steagall which prohibited the predatory, irresponsible and disastrous market in derivatives long ago? Christ warns some will get flogged, less if they did things deserving of stripes in ignorance, more if in knowledge.

I do agree with Christine that we all need to think outside the box, especially in regards to our favorite boogeyman that each of us so loves to rant about.

For me, it's the Russia/China/Communist plot to overthrow America and the West.

I *think* that's what is the Next Big Thing on the horizon, that has the potential for millions of people dying, but I could very well be wrong.

I was raised on thinking that the Europeans would unite to form some kind of "revived Roman empire" and from that would spring the Antichrist.

I no longer think that is a very likely possibility.

I used to think that some kind of chip implant would be the Mark of the Beast. More and more I think that is not the case either. (I think it is more of a spiritual identification with the beast system where you will have to proclaim your allegiance to some world leader and reject Christ. I also think there's no way you can "accidentally" take the Mark.)

It is a good thing to always keep an open mind about the mysteries that God has planned for this world. Keep an open mind, yes, but BE FILLED WITH THE HOLY SPIRIT, so you can discern truth from falsehood! That is the most important thing any of us can do right now.

We try and figure God's plans out before time, and it doesn't work. 2+2 doesn't always equal 4. God is sometimes not very good at math. He likes to surprise us with joy, especially when we put our complete faith and trust in Him.

Since so many who post here want to talk Christianity rather than fight the New Age movement, here's an interesting Christian site that they might get to report on New Age. That would cover both worlds.http://www.christianpost.com/

Once again you’ve illustrated my point re: your confusion inducing you to make faulty inferences. I’ve not compared the EO view of panentheism to pantheism; that is apparently an erroneous conclusion you’ve drawn. I’ve repeatedly both acknowledged that EO has a view on panentheism and stated that I’ve no desire to discuss it, as my focus is on how it pertains to Theosophy and New Age. I think it critical to understanding the ideology/theology of the New Age / New Spirituality. Yet, you keep getting off topic to EO panentheism due to your own misunderstanding.

Whether you like it or not, agree with it or not, scholars have a definition for panentheism to include many different aberrant views of God. I’ve already referenced this Stanford site here, but now I’ll go ahead a quote the introduction:

“Panentheism” is a constructed word composed of the English equivalents of the Greek terms “pan”, meaning all, “en”, meaning in, and “theism”, meaning God. Panentheism considers God and the world to be inter-related with the world being in God and God being in the world. It offers an increasingly popular alternative to both traditional theism and pantheism. Panentheism seeks to avoid either isolating God from the world as traditional theism often does or identifying God with the world as pantheism does. Traditional theistic systems emphasize the difference between God and the world while panentheism stresses God's active presence in the world. Pantheism emphasizes God's presence in the world but panentheism maintains the identity and significance of the non-divine. Anticipations of panentheistic understandings of God have occurred in both philosophical and theological writings throughout history (Hartshorne and Reese 1953; Cooper, 2006). However, a rich diversity of panentheistic understandings has developed in the past two centuries primarily in Christian traditions responding to scientific thought (Clayton and Peacocke 2004). While panentheism generally emphasizes God's presence in the world without losing the distinct identity of either God or the world, specific forms of panenthism, drawing from a different sources, explain the nature of the relationship of God to the world in a variety of ways and come to different conclusions about the significance of the world for the identity of God.

The author makes a clear distinction between panentheism and pantheism, as have I.

Dr Dennis Cuddy suggests that the time for the One World Currency is 2018. That seems realistic, given current events. The British government seems to be selling our companies to the Chinese and its ministers are telling us they're not such bad chaps after all. They are also importing non-Brits into our police force. Christopher Story, in the New Underworld Order, says that Britain is scheduled to collapse in 2015. That seems to be on target. The poor here are suffering great hardship, and the old are being murdered in hospitals. May God help us all.

Ruth, the poor in Britain have it a lot better than in the 1930s even in the depths of this recession, and involuntary euthanasia goes on far more in the Netherlands than in the UK. We are in deepening trouble but I don't trust all of these predictions of "the year Britain will collapse" or "the year of the single currency" predictions one bit. They all presume that some hidden set of people is in total control, but if that were the case then they would be running the show openly by now.

Wow. For those who like searching Google for New Age links and doing research, this tool is pretty fascinating (using bit.ly instead of tinyURL, because tinyURL is starting to be blocked in several countries):

http://bit.ly/dESNov

You'll need a java plugin for your browser for it to work. Also, it might take a while to load if you have a slow internet connection.

It's a mapping / networking exploration tool that shows linkages between websites based on your search terms. Go to the site above, type in "New Age", and when the network "map" comes up, double-click on any of the other "nodes" (websites) that are connected, and you get a bunch of new websites connected to that one.

Or, backspace the search term at the top left, and enter a new search term and hit enter (for example, Barbara Marx Hubbard), and if there are any connections with what's already on the map, they will be shown.

You can then select any of the nodes on the map to see a bunch of search results for that node on the left side of the screen. If you used the examples above, you'll see a YouTube video that is common to both the "New Age" search and the "Barbara Marx Hubbard" search, called "2012: A New Beginning..." If you select that node, a description of the video and a link to it are shown over to the left. (Clicking on the link on the left though doesn't work.... the software doesn't interpret the web address correctly....but you can search YouTube for the title....)

I've been wanting to create something like this, but it looks like someone already did the work!

This is one of those "Wow, cool!" things that comes along every once in a while. I hope you all find it of value. It can be used to explore all kinds of connections. It isn't discriminatory though on the websites it links to.... you'll have to do that yourself. :^)

Well, here's an interesting link that I was able to find while doing a search on "Planetary Initiation":

A website called "Reality Sandwich", run by someone named Daniel Pinchbeck:

http://www.realitysandwich.com/

If you want a Who's Who list of New Agers currently writing for major magazines, and appearing on major networks, etc, click on the "Contributors" link over on the right side of the page, down a little.

well, folks, if this is true, and if this is not just some for once noticed mining results acquisition visit, HERE IT COMES.

Remember Jesus said there would be wars and rumors of wars, nation would rise against nation (ethnic groups, tribal defined political elements) and kingdom against kingdom (more normal to our modern sense types of govts.) but the end is not yet?

get ready to deal with invaders of an unusual sort, study how Christians under pagan or whatever rule conducted themselves and how they converted some of them. Early church history and writings of the times (Eusebius Ecclesiastical History and Sozomon for starters) might help.

Remember that Christ said that when He comes back, His angels will gather His believers from one end of earth to the other, and from the ends of the heavens?

I don't care what these people look like, remember, if solid physical then they can become children of God also like us. (There might be a few believers among them, probably compromised as most of our believers are with the ways of their worlds just like much of us are with the ways of our world. Trust no one, incl. each other, lean on Jesus Christ for wisdom at EVERY step, take nothing for granted.)

Of course this video might be fear porn garbage. But it might not be.

Beware of false Christs, beware of false teachings, beware of false information, beware of false analyses political, social, economic, or whatever, reexamine everything you are used to, "test {examine for truthfulness] all things, hold fast to what is good".

And pray for their souls and for no atrocities on either side of any fight that breaks out.

If I understand you correctly, Christine, you are suggesting that we are about to be invaded by aliens, and that we need to be open to the possibility that we could share the gospel with some of them, in the hopes that we could win some of them over into the Kingdom of God.

Deut. 30:4 it is possible to get dragged off to the outermost part of heaven, or from one end of heaven to the other depending on translation.

So people are out there.

Matt. 24:31 and the elect will be gathered "from the four winds [all over earth], from one end of heaven to the other." the latter sounds a bit outer spacey.

So people are out there.

"aliens" as I explain in my book, A Possible History of Life on Mars, 195 pages not just the bit they show at the start, are most likely humans who were genetically engineered with insect, animal, bird and reptile DNA for extreme environments (and just to see if it could be done) by mad scientists before, and maybe after, The Flood. Offworld, suffered a lesser cataclysm, at the time.

So you can fit them into any Creationist or theistic evolution scenario you can come up with.

(Jesus' atonement is for all creatures, incl. hybrids and animals and God knows what messup, see Romans 8:29, Col. 1:15, Jesus is "the firstborn of all creatures," also translated "firstborn over all creation," Rev. 5:13 all creatures in heaven and earth and under the earth and sea, i.e., birds, animals, fish, worms, etc. worshipping God.

The scenario is BIBLICALLY POSSIBLE.

That same book of mine details sightings indicating abnormal activity on the moon, incl. a BLINKING light, for centuries.

Obviously someone has been mining there a long time. This vehicle may be a routine pickup nothing more.

And it might be military prepositioning. Especially if Richard Dolan's Breakaway Civilization theory is correct, and these (derived from USA Nazis etc.,) have been irritating people elsewhere.

Now, I am not going to bother you all with more of this. But whether it is alien invasion or WW 3 you need to think in terms of how you are going to deal with living in a war zone - or the functional equivalent if Yellowstone goes ballistic. And a month or two ago it let loose THREE swarms of earthquakes which a man who has been 53 years in geophysics said was unprecedented.

There is a pattern to these eruptions, and if it follows that pattern it won't be a worst case scenario. But it could still be very bad.

1) The Greek word for “heavens” (or “Heaven” with the definite article – the) is transliterated ouranos (or the Hebrew shamayim, from which the LXX Greek is translated in the OT) has a number of meanings, the correct meaning determined by context. The word can mean either (a) the visible heavens, the firmament over the earth, i.e. sky; (b) the starry expanse, the universe; (c) Heaven, the abode of God. By the contexts of the Scriptures you cite, (a) is the proper definition.

2) While Jesus Christ’s Atonement will eventually transform all of creation (as Romans 8 does state), only humans (and not dogs, cats, aliens/hybrids, etc.) can reach a saving faith. Jesus came down in the likeness of humanity, not animals or aliens/hybrids; therefore, He atoned for humanity. In Romans 8:21-22 it states that creation is likened to a mother in the pains of childbirth waiting for the “sons of God” to be revealed for its liberation. This means that creation (personified by Paul here) will have the effects of The Fall lifted once the saints’ (the “sons of God”) bodies are fully redeemed (8:23-25; cf. 1 Corinthians 15:42-54), which occurs at the eschaton, when Christ returns. Creation does not reach a ‘saving faith’; only those (humans) who accept Christ’s atoning work on the Cross can.

you are reading stuff into Scripture. Lacking characteristic human reason is no reason a creature cannot be in relationship with or love God. Revelation makes this clear, and blows your arguments out of the water. So does the incident of Balaam's ass, and what did the angel say to Balaam? that if she had gone on forward, he would have killed Balaam who was whipping her onward, and let her live.

If all creation is to be transformed and incl. in the new heavens and new earth, that incl. the animals etc. by definition.

The Greek lexicon is irrelevant, because OBVIOUSLY it wouldn't mean (c) but (a) and (b) are eseentially the same thing, because the visible firmament of heaven incl. the sun and moon by day, some stars and planets during sunrise and sunset and a lot more stars and planets at night. the distinction between (a) and (b) is not much, only needs expansion by a telescope.

I don't need any Christian scholars, neither do you. Read The Bible the whole thing cover to cover in as little time as possible a couple or three times, you will find a lot of stuff you don't expect.

however, John Wesley has an interesting take on this.http://wonderofcreation.org/2009/07/27/do-animals-have-souls/

what exactly it means that "man is capable of God, the inferior creatures are not" is not clearly stated.

However, many virtues and abilities are found scattered throughout the animal kingdom, but only in man are they all combined. As if God put bits of His image and likeness (love, determination, ability to design and built, ability to count to five at least and many other things) throughout nature, but only in the human species is it all present.

Also, the human alone stands fully permanently upright, forepaws free with fingers and opposing thumb at a good angle, and the binocular vision and larger brain per body mass, the upright stance giving superior pivoting ability and of course the ability to make tools more than animals can (some can and do, real crude).

In other words, mankind is designed perfectly to be the superintendant over nature under God.

Being made in the image and likeness of God is the phrasing used of the pharoah in Egypt, and applied only to the king. There is a democratic human rights etc. bias in Genesis here, because it says ALL humans are made in the image and likeness of God.

now as for life elsewhere, to start with, Mars has a horrific gash, and we have more water than we ought to. Just look at the continental shelves how they drop off sharply, but slope gently from dry land. Where did the extra water come from? Probably Mars in a close encounter, which had to have been managed directly by God or else (a) it couldn't have happened and (b) nothing much could have survived it.

Why bother to get Mars into play in the catastrophe, unless there were people needing a smackdown there also?

ALL LIFE CAN HAVE BEGUN HERE, or not. It might be there are inhabitable worlds, that were for excess human population to go to - and go they did after the Fall.

Ever watch that series on TV After Man? things fall apart real fast without maintenance.

BTW Gobekli Tepe might be pre Flood which would explain its being buried in sand. (archaeologists assume deliberately for some unknown reason, more likely Flood silt.)

"Aristotle denied that there could be a plurality of worlds. Of course, if there could not be a plurality of worlds, then the question of extraterrestrials was moot.

Around 1265 a conflict between the two radical wings began to heat up, resulting in the famous (or, for Thomists, infamous) 219 Propositions in 1277, issued by the bishop of Paris, Etienne Tempier. Proposition 27 condemns all who hold the Aristotelian position "that the first cause cannot make more than one world."

It should be stressed that the aim of this condemnation was not to affirm a plurality of worlds but to affirm God’s omnipotence against any account of nature that seemed to restrict God’s powers. "http://catholiceducation.org/articles/religion/re0591.html

some interesting points, and since Christ is the contact point between God and Creation (and points cited in Scripture earlier shows His Incarnation Atonement and Resurrection relate to the whole of creation) you don't need any nonsense about Christ reincarnating in various forms and dying and rising over and over.

You ask Christine to restrict herself to one post per day but she is not and is continuing to make this blog hard to read. She now believes that we are about to be visited by aliens - not angels, but aliens. Christine may be a Christian but it is possible to be deluded and most people who speak of aliens nowadays are New Age. If not for your own reputation then for those of us who appreciate genuine discussion about the New Age movement from the Judaeo-Christian perspective, please limit this pollution of your blog.

I made one post Marko asked a question I answered. Then Craig chimed in with stuff that could not be left unanswered for the benefit of others here.

If you would bother to read anything much you would know, that the New Age chanelled aliens are nothing to do with the nuts and bolts and abductions leaving physical trace and in one case in Italy a pregnancy that got aborted and the results analyzed.

you have been doing your damnedest to label me New Age especially when I showed how their arguments can be refuted and have serious weak points that can used AGAINST them.

It seems any really deadly attack, any weapon that can be used to REFUTE a talking point of theirs is Not A Good Thing in your mind.

It is all very well to track individual leaders and speakers, but that is not the masses of people being infected with IDEAS. Those ideas need answering, something you are not apparently capable of doing, and are too vain to tolerate anyone who is capable of answering them.

I think you tend to accuse others of what is true of yourself. And it is YOU with the ego problem.

NOW I am going to be quiet for 48 hours counting from 2:10 AM my time.

Yes, Christine, you are going to be quiet but only because you scent danger of being thrown off this blog. If you are not, how quickly will we have to put up again with pollution about aliens, faces on Mars, wacky science, etc ad nauseam?

"Then Craig chimed in with stuff that could not be left unanswered for the benefit of others here."

It is you, Christine, that has the ego problem. You feel that everything has to be explained according to your warped and sometimes heretical point of view. Nothing can be left "unanswered". You love to teach, but are unteachable. A poor position to be in, in my opinion.

No answer is better than a bad answer. But by your definition, no answer you can give is a bad answer, even if it is to throw out more questions - questions that, quite frankly, distract from the purpose of this blog, and are even counter to its foundational principles and beliefs.

Just because you've read through the Bible three or four times does not make you an expert on the truth.

I'm don't like to be so harsh, but after watching a video yesterday of Walter Martin's last visit to TBN, I am putting some of his wisdom into action and confronting the errors you propagate. Much of what you say is true, but it's mixed with error.

"A half truth, like half a brick, is always more forcible as an argument than a whole one. It carries better." -- Stephen Leacock

I only tell you these things out of Christian love for you as a sister in Christ, because I see you believing something other than the truth and focusing on things that aren't all that important and that might be distracting you from a closer walk with God. You say prepare for the times ahead, and I am suggesting that all that weirdness you focus on is distracting you from the main task at hand for all of us who are trying to prepare: to focus on Jesus Christ and on getting our spiritual house in order. I preach to myself in this as much as to you, believe me! Simplify; get back to the basics.

My comments might be harsh, but they are given in the spirit of love. I hope they are received that way.

Bingo! Hitting the nail on the head all of you who are showing--again--how Christine is extreme in her self-importance and promoting the very things being warned about in New Age thinking here on this blog. It is not only stupid but actually dangerous distraction from the Truth. Half truth is the worst enemy of the Truth. She does the very opposite of what she says she believes in claiming to follow Jesus. The author of confusion keeps her busy around here.....makes me sad for the blog but mostly sad for her. Christine why are there not red flags in your spirit as to the repeated warnings folks are giving you? The Word of God should have you sufficiently warned but you really appear heedless to even that Authority-maybe especially to that. Gives me pause--why not you?

The New Age does not view God as being pantheistic, it views God as being, both, panentheistic (transcendent and immanent-in all things) and also a part of God is viewed as being pantheistic (or is the Universe), and ultimately God is viewed as being totally transcendent.

The New Age views God as being within every individual human being. And it views each individual as being essentially God-in the same way that Jesus is God, infinite, extending indefinitely, even beyond the boundries of the universe, being both immanent (in the universe) and transcendent (beyond the universe), and ultimately, totally transcendent, believing the universe will not last forever, but that God will last forever. Hinduism, likewise, believes that "what we know as our own self goes all the way to the point of absolute identity with the supreme Being."

I do not believe in a literal interpretation of Genesis, but there are some truths that can be gleaned from it. In the Garden of Eden, Adam and Eve perceived them-selves to be [essentially] one with God and each Another. They also perceived themselves to be essentially one with Nature. In addition, they also perceived good and evil as being [essentially] the same.

Then Satan temped them to eat the forbidden fruit from the "tree of the knowledge of good and evil." Eve told Satan: God says we mustn't eat it or even touch it, or we will die." Satan said to Eve: "That's a lie!" "You won't die! God knows very well that when you eat it you will become like Him - you will know good from evil!"

Then Adam and Eve ate the forbidden fruit. After eating it they perceived good and evil as being [fundamentally different], and no longer [essentially the same]. They also perceived themselves to be no longer [essentially] one with God and one Another, and neither did they perceived themselves to be [essentially] one with Nature. They now perceived themselves to be fundamentally separate from God, each another and nature.

They had acquired a false identity. They believed that they were a combination of their outer personalities and their bodies. They had lost their awareness of their true identity, or their inter Self, wherein they perceived their [essential] oneness with God, Each Other and Nature.

Today, the vast majority of people on earth have this false identity. The people of traditional Christianity/Catholicism wrongly believe that Jesus Christ came to assure them that who they believed themselves to be was who they truly were. And that He would eventually restore the creation/earth back to its supposed paradise state of existence, or to the way it was before Adam and Eve committed "original sin." And that after restoring the creation/earth back to its supposed paradise state of existence He would place saved Christians in it, where they would live forever.

Modern-day scientific discovery has clearly revealed the truth - that the creation was not without corruption and death for planets, animals and humans prior to when the first humans lived on earth and supposedly committed "original sin."

Hindu and Buddhist meditation (also "Christian Zen meditation"), a particular type of contemplation and good works (especially including prayer for some people) eventually separate people from their false identities and reveal to people practicing these spiritual disciplines their true identity, the same identity that Adam and Eve had before they sinned.

Jesus came to help us gain our true identity and usher in a new age and new world order, including a one world government and one world religion.

I'm familiar with the position you assert; but, I don't see it that way as I read the Bailey/Blavatsky material and other esoteric works. Brahmanism seems to be both panentheistic and pantheistic in the way (or very similar to the way) you describe, i.e. all that we see is ‘god’, though there is a transcendent aspect that appears to be superior (as I read it, anyway).

Bailey/Blavatsky are clear in that there is a "self" (the inner 'god' in all things) and the "not self" (the outer shell). This is consistent with Isaac Luria's Kabbalah, as well. In these views, there was a divine spark / seed (or what-have-you) that was somehow encased within matter (there are a variety of views as to how this came about). Once matter is destroyed, the sparks/seeds all come together, and in turn unite to the transcendent.

With the above in mind, I view monism as not strictly that the ‘god’ within all is ontologically equivalent to the surrounding matter, but rather that monism is the interconnectness of all the individual “selfs”, i.e. the ‘god’ within all, which is currently estranged from its transcendent aspect (what Bailey/Blavatsky call the “Absolute Reality”, the source from which all is a ‘manifestation’ – see footnote 12 of the link below). Once matter is destroyed then “all will be one and one will be all”. At least that’s the purported goal.

Here’s an article I wrote on it citing a work by Richard Smoley, as well as Bailey and Blavatsky material:

"Jesus came to help us gain our true identity and usher in a new age and new world order, including a one world government and one world religion."

Yes and No! He will do this at His Second (bodily) Coming to this earth, following which he will lead a one world government - and the one world religion will be worship of him and of his Father in heaven. His Second Coming will be triggered by the attack of a world dictator on Jesus' own people, the Jews living in the land of Israel, who will at last turn and cry to him for help. That world dictator will lead a one world government of terrible evil, and will seek to institute a one-word religion that worships him. He is an antichrist, whereas Jesus who returns to overthrow him is the one true Christ.

Until Jesus returns, his followers on earth are to be both meek and fearless, as He was when He came for the first time. The second coming will be different.

Just a thought: I heard on CNN today that the web designer that produced the disastrous "Affordable Care Act" aka ObamaCare is Canadian. If the Obama administration were so interested in USA jobs, why didn't they use an American firm to do the work. There is plenty of brilliant computer talent in Silicone Valley, Ann Arbor, Michigan, and/or the MIT crowd on the east coast.

I've made it a policy not to exclude posters to this blog; however, I have made a polite request of Christina to exercise conciseness and limit her posts to say one per day. There is a COLLAPSE COMMENTS feature on this blogspot and if you feel it necessary to skip Christina's or anybody else's posts, you are free to use it.

I know, Constance, and I accept that it's your blog. I was just wondering how bad it has to get before you enact quality control. ALIENS next, not angels, says Christine. Sure, she is a Christian, but she has some very New Age delusions.

Scientists have noted the absence of any communication from aliens despite systematic search of radio wavelengths for decades now. Any alien civilization capable of reaching us physically would have technology far in advance of ours. Instead, the 1950s UFO sightings report craft with 1950s features, and so on. Doubtless a coincidence.

In the following video, the band Heart (Ann Wilson on vocals, and sister Nancy on guitar) do a rendition of Led Zeppelin’s Stairway to Heaven, complete with orchestral and choral arrangement, performed at the Kennedy Center on Dec 2, 2012. It was apparently a pretty big deal, presumably in homage to the band. Barack and Michelle Obama were in the audience (at 3:40 in clip). I’m sure some here are aware of some of the particulars; so, I’ll be brief.

Zep guitarist Jimmy Page bought Boleskin House, the estate of Aleister Crowley (owning it from 1970 – 1991). Primary lyricist and vocalist Robert Plant stated that the lyrics to the song came to him as automatic writing. In the lyrics are many different occult themes (spiritual alchemy, Pan {Pied Piper}, May Queen, etc.).

The original album from which the tune is taken contained four different symbols, three of which are stylized triple sixes. The album wasn’t formally named; however, on the label itself are these four icons (at least on the US release, which I used to have). Most refer to this 1971 album release as either Led Zeppelin IV or “Zoso” – one of the stylized 666s.

The surviving members of Led Zep are in the audience (shown right at the beginning and throughout, from l to r: John Paul Jones {bass, keyboards}, Plant, Page), with deceased drummer John Bonham’s son Jason behind the drum kit on stage. Again, it was apparently a big deal.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=JK_DOJa99oo

at :25 is the Zoso icon

at :29 is the first ‘trinity’ 666, somewhat similar to the one on the cover of Marilyn Ferguson’s “Aquarian Conspiracy”

at :31 is the second ‘trinity’ 666. Note the skull made up of the top ring as head, with the intersection of the two lower rings forming eye sockets and mouth. Nancy Wilson has a similarly designed skull (just the skull and not the triple Os) on a ring worn on her right hand index finger (not visible in this clip, but in others on YouTube, I’ve found). It’s also on the head/front of the bass/kick drum.

at :35 is the last of the four images (not sure what this indicates).

As a former avid record collector (all sorts of music), I had the entire Led Zep catalog. Information such as catalog numbers, etc. are in what’s called the lead-out grooves (some call it the ‘dead wax’), the space between the end of the recorded music and the outer perimeter of the record label. Sometimes there are clever sayings, as well. I recall on Led Zep III, the words “so mote be it”, which is sort of a parallel to “amen”, said at the end of an incantation/spell.

the game is done through "privatization" to companies that are part of the game.

ALIENS have NOTHING TO DO WITH THE NEW AGE. (aside from the channeling nonsense. which is all you people probably ever hear about. I DON'T READ THAT GARBAGE.) When you have PHYSICAL interactions, TRACE REMAINS PHYSICAL EVIDENCE, and declassified docs showing some govt. knowledge (I do NOT mean MJ 12) then something is going on. Oh, yeah, and alien abduction - a LOT of people DID NOT NEED HYPNOSIS TO REMEMBER but remembered consciously though some had hypnosis to get out detail, overall event was CONSCIOUSLY remembered, and usually physical indications of tissue removal (scoop marks) and other things. ODD DISEASE PATTERNS.

I wasn't going to post for two days, but since Constance asked I will post now.

The privatization game takes important stuff out of the reach of public control through elected officials and into the hands of "free enterprise" huge corporations who ARE INTERLOCKED TO IMF AND OTHER INTERESTS. privatization is a robber baron scam, just like big govt. is.

These networks of politics and money operate the SAME way New Age networks operate. (and can incl. some such people.)

Yes, there is plenty of evidence that some alien abduction involves demons, but PHYSICAL PEOPLE WHO ARE WITCHES OF SOME SORT CAN BE BLOCKED BY INVOKING CHRIST ALSO. Especially if their powers they are using are demonic.

Things often are not either/or. you can have physical aliens who are themselves partnered with demons.

Which is why I first ignored the nibiru story because it was being pushed by Nancy Lieder and her "zetas," until I found the astronomical reasons for it, but now I think the Nemesis theory is correct, which never gets near us only flings asteroids.

Anybody look at what FEMA and DHS are up to? They act like prepping for takeover, OR for invasion or physical disaster or both, Napolitano said her successor will have to deal with multi disasters at once in different places. While you look at Europe to be the revived Roman Empire YOU ALL FORGET that IF that is what the 10 horns are, NONE OF THE NATIONS NEED TO BE IN EUROPE. Get an old map out like in the back of some Bibles. present scene just a hiccup.

Why should aliens try to communicate with us? They might have an isolationist bias like imperial China and Japan. Why assume they the same radio SETI studies (as waste of time, money and a mere sop to the public) and if so why not burst packet further coded transmission which would be very hard to spot, and YES there a few odd things were spotted.

ALIENS PROBABLY ORIGINALLY WERE HUMAN, then reengineered 1,000s of years ago to go offworld, and are coming back, they might have all kinds of reasons to avoid open contact.

And to exploit such idiots as want to deal with them psychically.

My book explores this scenario, which fits aliens into young earth Creationism as well as any other scenario, and is designed to undermine the notion that if we find ET intelligent life this somehow is a challenge to religion in general and Christianity in particular. (A Possible History of Life on Mars, 195 pages)

there are network maps showing relationship between econ., political and social entities. THESE MAPS ARE LIKE THE NEW AGE MAP MS. CUDDY DID. One project out of some university showed controllers in world economy are under 100 companies owning others that own still others. These interface to govts.

8:59 MATTHEW 24:31 "And HE will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, FROM ONE END OF HEAVEN TO THE OTHER."

FROM ONE END OF HEAVEN TO THE OTHER.

So there can be believers out there either now or later due to contact and conversion, which will be brought in FROM ONE END OF HEAVEN TO THE OTHER.

Nothing in the NT changes just because another continent (medieval) or another occupied planet (now to future) is discovered. IF you think it does, you haven't been reading The Bible but only what people say it says. No conflict. Just continue same application in the new situation.

Alien arrival is NOT the great ingathering. It is just another hiccup in history, another situation in which some might hear the Gospel. Aliens are NOT angels. This is just the same as for instance the Mongols invade meet Christians some convert sort of thing. Nothing more.

As already noted, "heavens" in Matt 24:31 is best rendered/understood as sky, as the NASB renders it. The key is the term "four winds", which is sometimes "four corners", meaning the entire earth (see Rev 7:1). The term "heavens" (ouranos) is a restatement of "four winds", i.e., they are synonymous here.

As noted, the heavens as used by NASB or anything else, is visible heavens, which at various times of day and night incl. some stars and planets.

and, as noted, to combine the terms "the four winds" with "the heavens" is an unnecessary excess of words, and this in NOT typical of God throughout the Bible. Adding the picture of Deut. 30:4 saying that if outcasts were in THE UTTERMOST PART OF THE HEAVENS they would be brought back from there, you have a potential at least for habitable and inhabited planets elsewhere. Or if not, then space bases from whenever from earth originally.

I suggest also this.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jaxtKeWKPBs&feature=c4-overview-vl&list=PLD9D3EC9F38BAB059

a reality is going on. And even if it is Nazi tech there is reason to believe they had their own Roswell and reverse engineering back then.

Also, UFO photos exist from BEFORE those days in Europe. Back to square one.

Google The Brookings Report. The opinion The Brookings Institute had, was that discovery of intelligent ET life would destroy religious belief and with it society, because the thin veneer of civilization, absent fear of divine judgement later, would dissipate, and all hell would break loose. The Report TOOK FOR GRANTED that secrecy would be kept, and went on to speculate as to HOW TO SURVIVE AS A CIVILIZATION if aliens invaded, and presented the Japanese model of dealing with American occupation as how to operate in such a case.

To my way of thinking, and that of many in the past, this conflict between religious belief and alien life being real is nonsense.

But to judge by some reactions here, perhaps Brookings was right, and the coverup is not that stupid a thing to do.

The way Christine tries to use the Bible to put forward her warped (and new age leaning)interpretations is a real disservice to this blog. Confusing for those just coming on board here to learn and irritating to those who are just wanting to know the latest things and the who's who of the global new age agenda that continues to unfold very far-reaching intentions over the world's populace.

The discussions to help untangle what she twists goes on and that part is good but it is the sheer frequency and volume of her postings that lend itself to seem a back-handed way approving of all she espouses.

Walesa has always been suspect in my mind. The West has hailed him as a "hero" for democracy in his crusade against Communism. I've read analysis though (it's been a while ago) that pegs him as working with the KGB in the "collapse" of Communism in Eastern Europe that occurred in the late 80s - early 90s.

More and more I am seeing this call by former Communists for a "third way" that is neither Communism nor Capitalism.

My hunch is that their "break" with Communism is not as clean as what might appear. But.... this is an important part of the "debate" going on right now in the world at large regarding humanity's future. It's the same mindset as the Occupy crowd, and the Arab Spring crowd. Is it the "convergence of minds" that New Agers talk about so incessantly? Perhaps. They see it as a spontaneous phenomenon. I think we would see it as more or less a "mass possession" of those who have refused to see the Truth, and so now they are given over to the dark side.

I think that if there were going to be aliens scurrying around at the End of Days, our Lord would have made a point of mentioning it. He didn't. He said "Take heed lest any man deceive you".

The whole alien thing has always struck me as revolting and in bad taste, in direct contradiction to the light and purity and simplicity of the New Testament, and I am quite sure that it emanates from the father of bad taste himself.

And to Anonymous at 6.26, I think you made a fair comment. I definitely get the impression that someone wants to make out that we are in a perfect storm, and without one clever person who can turn everything around, we are quite lost. I wonder who THAT might be, eh?

Which reminds me, the Rev Billy Graham is telling us that the Second Coming is near. Hmmm.

It is an excellent book. One chapter title is Global War On Religion. The chapter titled Disinformation in Today's America shows how Obama's image is similar to the projected image of totalitarian leaders under communism.

In the face of criticism, Rep. Alan Grayson (D-Fla.) is standing by his charge that the tea party is no more popular than the Ku Klux Klan, arguing that its record of racist outbursts at rallies earned it the ignominious distinction.

"[T]here is overwhelming evidence that the Tea Party is the home of bigotry and discrimination in America today, just as the KKK was for an earlier generation," he said in a statement provided to HuffPost. "If the hood fits, wear it."

"Alien arrival is NOT the great ingathering. It is just another hiccup in history, another situation in which some might hear the Gospel. Aliens are NOT angels. This is just the same as for instance the Mongols invade meet Christians some convert sort of thing."

Just the same? Mongols and Christians are all the same species, descendants of Adam created all in the image of God. Aliens are not descendants of Adam. Not "just the same".

You are falling into the same mesmerization that Eve did. Please return to earth. You mentioned you are on disability because of chronic depression. This is treatable, and you can get back to a normal reasonably stable physical, mental, and spiritual condition. Try getting regular exercise eat healthy food, and perhaps go out, and get a job. Sometimes its necessary to completely change our habits for our own, and our loved ones sakes.Consider spending only an hour a day on the computer researching earth based new age activity, and making valid posts once in a while.You really need to get some fresh air.

"They ARE descended from Adam if they are descended from humans genetically reengineered with insect, bird, animal and reptile DNA by mad scientists before The Flood... NONE OF THIS HAS TO DO WITH THE NEW AGE... I don't deal with that garbage as information source."

That's probably the biggest "if" I've ever read. Just because New Age is garbage doesn't mean that non-New-Age sources are garbage-free. If there had been an advanced civilization before the Flood then archeologists would have found its remnants by now - large metal constructions with engineered straight lines, intricate innards etc.To take just one example of our own technology, a car engine is a large block of metal that would remain identifiably such, if totally inoperable, for many millennia. Ancient scrapyards would have been found under the Flood mud by modern metal prospecting techniques. but nothing advanced has been found.

I am fully expecting you to go conspiracy against the archeological profession like you did against the physicists and anyone else who disagrees with you. But if this stuff isn't New Age then it should be on your own blog, not polluting Constance's. You come here to parade your nonsense in front of a decent audience. Is that because nobody reads your blog? Whatever, we don't appreciate it.

Part of the New Age script, as many see it, is to use the "reality" of aliens to introduce us to and initiate us onto the path toward a new world of peace and unity. This WILL include unity with our "space brothers". Anyone speaking against them will be seen as an enemy of humanity and as a blockage to "progress".

As I see it, anything claiming to be an extraterrestrial is a demonic entity who exists for the sole purpose of deceiving humanity.

Anyone toying with the idea that aliens are just other people, who may or may not be hostile, is like a child wandering on the African veldt, finding a hungry lion, and saying "Oh look.... cute kitty!" and going up to it and wanting to pet it or feed it. The lion may look friendly, and it may not attack right away, but the child will most likely die anyway, from a death of a thousand licks. Or 999 licks and a CRUNCH, as the lion makes its final lunge, which it was patient to wait for until the right time.

"For your adversary, the devil, walks around like a hungry lion, seeking whom he may devour...."

"In the modern sense, theosophy is a modern Gnostic movement which attempts a synthesis of religious, philosophical, and scientific insights drawn from many traditions, but primarily from Hindu philosophy and occult sciences. We find Theosophist denying fundamental Christian concepts about the nature of God and the soul. They teach that God is immanent in the world and that He is not wholly external to creation but a part of it - this is, in fact, pantheism."

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia:

Theopanism (Greek: Theos = God, pan = all) was first used as a technical term by the Jesuits in elucidating Hinduism. "[O]ne may distinguish pantheism, which imagines the world as an absolute being ("everything is God"), from theopanism, which conceives of God as the true spiritual reality from which everything emanates.

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia:

Jeaneane D. Fowler too discerns a "metaphysical monotheism" in the Vedas. The Vedas contain sparse monism. The Nasadiya Sukta of the Rigveda speaks of the One being-non-being that 'breathed without breath'. The manifest cosmos cannot be equated with it, "for "That" is a limitless, indescribable, absolute principle that can exist independently of it - otherwise it cannot be the Source of it." It is the closest the Vedas come to monism, but Fowler argues that this cannot be called a "superpersonal monism", nor "the quintessence of monistic thought", because it is "more expressive of a panentheistic, totally transcendent entity that can become manifest by its own power. It exists in itself, unmanifest, but with the potential for all manifestations of the cosmos.

Buddhism is not pantheistic in the sense that it identifies the universe with God. On the other hand, the Buddhist God is absolute and transcendent; this world, being merely its manifestation, is necessarily fragmental and imperfect.

New Ager's believe in a "absolute and transcendent" God, or a totally transcendent entity.

An article from the EWTN library entitled "A Closer Look At The New Age Movement" says:

I first states that the New Age movement originated from theosopy, a modern Gnostic movement.

"In the modern sense, theosophy is a modern Gnostic movement which attempts a synthesis of religious, philosophical, and scientific insights drawn from many traditions, but primarily from Hindu philosophy and occult sciences. We find Theosophist denying fundamental Christian concepts about the nature of God and the soul. They teach that God is immanent in the world and that He is not wholly external to creation but a part of it - this is, in fact, pantheism."

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia:

Theopanism (Greek: Theos = God, pan = all) was first used as a technical term by the Jesuits in elucidating Hinduism. "[O]ne may distinguish pantheism, which imagines the world as an absolute being ("everything is God"), from theopanism, which conceives of God as the true spiritual reality from which everything emanates.

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia:

Jeaneane D. Fowler too discerns a "metaphysical monotheism" in the Vedas. The Vedas contain sparse monism. The Nasadiya Sukta of the Rigveda speaks of the One being-non-being that 'breathed without breath'. The manifest cosmos cannot be equated with it, "for "That" is a limitless, indescribable, absolute principle that can exist independently of it - otherwise it cannot be the Source of it." It is the closest the Vedas come to monism, but Fowler argues that this cannot be called a "superpersonal monism", nor "the quintessence of monistic thought", because it is "more expressive of a panentheistic, totally transcendent entity that can become manifest by its own power. It exists in itself, unmanifest, but with the potential for all manifestations of the cosmos.

Buddhism is not pantheistic in the sense that it identifies the universe with God. On the other hand, the Buddhist God is absolute and transcendent; this world, being merely its manifestation, is necessarily fragmental and imperfect.

New Ager's believe in an "absolute and transcendent" God, or a "totally transcendent entity."

"On the other hand, the Buddhist God" while at least one Mahayana sect has "Adi Buddha" a god figure, most are not theistic at all. buddha said that if there is a God He must be someone Who takes His arising from nothing, and none of the Hindu deities fit that description. All had some kind of origin story. So he said that whether or not such exists, people need to work on right doing and thinking, and stop generating bad karma. Buddhism is therefore essentially agnostic. Of course, YHWH is exactly The One Who takes His arising from no one and nothing but Himself, but buddha hadn't heard of Him.

Note that “Being” is capitalized seemingly indicating divinity. This “Absolute Reality” (AR hereafter) is the unmanifested. On this same page referenced above the AR is referred to as “the Father”, aka “first Logos”. This is clearly the transcendent ‘all is in God’ aspect. The “manifested conditioned Being” seems to be of a lesser status than the AR. If one views the chart on pages 48-49 of Bailey’s Initiation, Human and Solar, one sees the “Planetary Hierarchy” (Sanat Kumara, Maitreiya, etc.), which are individually (1) manifestations of the AR; (2) obviously ‘divine’.

Yet, the universe is not viewed as strictly pantheistic, for all manifested matter has a divine “Spirit” within. A ‘tree hugger’ does not hug the tree per se, the ‘tree hugger’ clings to the divine within the tree. Here’s Bailey again, showing this distinction. Though at first it may seem to be pantheism, note how the “suitability of the sheath/body/form” is the way to observe inner “spiritual development”:

“…The development of spirit can be only expressed as yet in terms of the evolution of matter, and only through the adequacy of the vehicle, and through the suitability of the sheath, the body or form, can the point of spiritual development reached in any way be appraised…” [Bailey Cosmic Fire, pp 49-50].

This may be confusing, but the following clears it right up. Matter will eventually be destroyed, leaving only the “Spirit plus mind” which will then unite to its “cosmic centre/source”[p 52]. This is the immanent aspect, the “God is in all” part:

“…[T]he first Logos [ED: "the Father" / AR] is called Destroyer, because He is abstraction, if viewed from below upwards [ED: from the point of view of creation / the immanent aspect]. His work is the synthesis of Spirit with Spirit, their eventual abstraction from matter, and their unification with their cosmic source. Hence also He is the one who brings about pralaya [ED: death; cf. p 128] or the disintegration of form, – the form from which the Spirit has been abstracted” [Cosmic Fire, pp 148-149].

When this happens all will be One and One will be all = monism. Matter is only a means to this end.

Craig, while what you wrote is mentally challenging, it goes where I put most esoteric writing, into a That's How I See It bin. There is no way to prove that those abstract terms have a reality and understanding that goes back to the beginning of whatever. Judaism and Christianity posit a set of values that have proven useful to individuals and communities over thousands of years. That's good enough for me. I may die not knowing what Absolute Reality is, but what good will knowing someone theory do for me.

Back when I was a teen, a young man said, and I always remember it, "I don't know how I got here, but what's important is that I do something to help others while I am here, which is why I'm studying to be a doctor."

It appears to me that he had more common sense than all of the wondering philosophers with their "That's How I See It" logic.

"Judaism and Christianity posit a set of values that have proven useful to individuals and communities over thousands of years. That's good enough for me. I may die not knowing what Absolute Reality is, but what good will knowing someone theory do for me."

Absolute Reality is not a What but a Who. You know if you know someone or not.

I agree to a point that all esoteric teaching is a matter of how one sees it. What I’ve done, though, is made a determined effort to get to the root of what Bailey (and Blavatsky, whom she pulls from) means. I’ve not stated that this teaching goes back before Bailey, though it is clear that the doctrine borrows from many different esoteric traditions (2nd century Gnosticism, Hinduism, etc.). It is a false belief system.

The Gnostic roots come, in part, from the teaching of the ‘god within’ all of matter, thereby somewhat replicating the Gnostic spirit/matter dualism (spirit is good, while matter is evil). This makes perfect sense from a Judeo-Christian perspective, as the enemy (devil, Satan) HATES creation, which is exactly why matter will eventually be destroyed. In some of the Gnostic sects it was also taught that the “God of the Old Testament” was, according to these Gnostics, the inferior god (demiurge) of creation, while the Father of the NT was the superior God, who is somewhat akin to the “Absolute Reality” of the Blavatsky/Bailey Theosophy. This is why it will be the AR, aka “the Father” (“first Logos”) who will destroy creation. In my mind, this clearly identifies the AR/“Father” as Satan himself.

The “Absolute Reality” is also called “the ineffable” (inexpressible). According to what little I’ve read of esoteric literature, this is pretty common. The AR/ineffable is unknowable, the supreme being. That’s been Satan’s goal all along – to exalt himself above the True God, or to be worshiped as God.

However, as I’ve noted in the article I wrote on this, the AR is part of a false trinity, distorted from the Christian Trinity; and, “Sanat Kumara” seems to be a quasi-manifestation of this AR. Yet, in my mind, this is merely a ruse, as I see this as the AR = Sanat Kumara, with Satan cleverly devising a system in which he plays all the parts of “god”. In addition, it seems obvious that Maitreya is also Satan himself, for example. As stated earlier, Satan has long wanted to be worshiped, and he’ll use whatever deception he can throw out to achieve that goal for himself.

With all the above in mind, this is how the doctrine constitutes monism. That is, as it’s presented in Theosophy, everything emanates from Satan, rather than from the True God, except for creation, which will be destroyed. It’s actually quite diabolically ingenious.

German Chancellor Angela Merkel complained to President Barack Obama on Wednesday after learning that U.S. intelligence may have targeted her mobile phone, saying that would be "a serious breach of trust" if confirmed.

For its part, the White House denied that the U.S. is listening in on Merkel's phone calls now.

Craig, I'm not picking on you. You are just interpreting what someone else thinks.

Anonymous 4:11, how do we concretely know that Absolute Reality is a Who? It's just a guess.

Of more value, as I see it of course, would be a discussion of why the teachings of Judaism and Christianity are more of value to individual and community life than whatever New Age teaches. Are those teaching about morality leading to behavior by the individual of more value than what New Age teaches?

I think yes.

A person can spend their whole life wondering about Absolute Reality and related topics while that person's life may be a mess.

It's why I think the person who came up with "What Would Jesus Do?" is more in touch with reality than Nietzsche.

Those who teach What Can It All Be without comparing results of the various belief systems miss the point of why bother to learn how to survive the mess we were born into.

Todd Starnes has brought forth critical information that the US Government and its army have been classifying American Evangelical and fundamentalist Christians as "Hate groups" including but not limited to the American Family Foundation. Check this site and related ones out:

"Anonymous 4:11, how do we concretely know that Absolute Reality is a Who? It's just a guess."

I know God (in Jesus Christ) personally, just like I know my nextdoor neighbor. The only difference is that I can't prove it to anybody else, because I can't turn up in a bar with God in the flesh. But that doesn't bother me, any more than it bothers me if atheists think I'm nuts when I talk to Him in prayer. I know that my redeemer liveth.

German Chancellor Adolf Hitler complained to President Franklin D. Roosevelt after learning that U.S. intelligence may have targeted his field radio telephone, saying that would be "very naughty" if confirmed.

A change to the Marine Corps' uniform hats could leave hard-nosed Leathernecks looking a lot less macho.

According to the New York Post, President Obama's plan to create a "unisex" look for the Corps has officials on the verge of swapping out the Marines' iconic caps with a new hat that some have derided as so "girly" that they would make the French blush.

"We don't even have enough funding to buy bullets, and the DoD is pushing to spend $8 million on covers that look like women's hats!" one senior Marine source fumed to The Post. "The Marines deserve better. It makes them look ridiculous."

The thin new hats have a feminine line that some officials think would make them look just as good on female marines as on males - in keeping with the Obama directive.

the hats - frankly I always thought those big round things looked laughable. The now format looks a lot like French police at one time. Both old and new formats are almost indistinguishable male and female.

More to the point is to train the women military, even though not in combat units, in special forces type hand to hand combat because (1) there are a lot of rapists in our own military, (2) combat troops or no, women in the military (and civilians) are in danger if the enemy overruns a position, and even if the enemy are not rapists or most aren't, this training means the women can provide quite a surprise.

Its kill or cripple with bare hands stuff, dependent NOT on your size and strength but your opponent's body's inherent weak points. This goes beyond just kick them in the balls.

Unarmed combat is based on the fact that there are only a finite number of ways you can be attacked, and you practice repeatedly the responses (blocks-cum-movement and appropriate counterstrikes) to each. What counts is not strength but speed, knowledge and attitude. It's not mystical and it's not rocket science.

Nevertheless the fact that women WANT to be in combat units suggests that something is very wrong with our society.

actually what is wrong with our society and a great many others, is the preprogramming that makes women what would be recognized in a man for what it is, a psychological castration.

The Persian Empire had female cavalry archers and female commanders. The Mysians had female cavalry. The Amazons were unique ONLY in living apart from men.

The Roman empire warriors were suprised sometimes in Europe, to find that among the enemy dead were sometimes women.

The Sarmatians were said to have women warriors, and now we know for sure. Their burials have been found. (many burials have been ASSUMED to be male if weapons are with the body, but a relook is finding some in fact are skeletons of women.)

In more recent times, the Dahomey empire in Africa dumped its more intractable and large women into the king's women's army combat units. (they became technically wives of the king, but I doubt he ever touched them. Another king in ancient south east asia, I forget the location, had a harem cum bodyguard of woman warriors.) The Dahomey "amazons" were more feared than the men and trained harder than the men, and were said to have "often held the field when the men had fled."

They lost to the French army because of one reason only, aside from probably somewhat better weapons of the French. Dahomey was one of the great slave raiding and selling empires, and so the military fought more to capture than to kill, and this habit did not serve well in dealing with the French.

In the Civil War, at least 500 women on both sides were discovered due to death or treating injuries. In those days, you could join the army without getting a naked physical exam. The wars in Europe had several such women discovered.

One woman thought to be a man, in cavalry, was well reputed as an aggressive warrior who always went for the thickest of the fighting, which may have got her killed because though this aggression can send opponents running, it also can put you in a situation you are surrounded, which is what happened, and she was killed.

These were not lesbians and the only reason they wore men's clothing was as a disguise. Usually they joined the military to be with their male lovers who joined.

Deborah Sampson did this routine in the American Revolutionary War, was discovered due to a war injury, received a medal.

Now, ask yourself, just how many do you think went undiscovered and like their male counterparts retired alive in one piece?

Tomboys are not perverts. They are more natural, and Eve was given NO talks about role or subordination until the CURSE AFTER THE FALL.

Eve was designed to be Adam's companion, running around in the woods with him. No model but a man.

And the Christian's model is a man, Jesus Christ. At least one pagan syncretism scene in Africa feels it needs a goddess figure for the women, Jesus for the men.I do NOT mean Roman Catholicism.

I read that in Catholicism, a lot of women focus more on Mary than on Jesus for the same reason.

No, the women wanting to be in combat is not a symptom of a problem in society.

More like, they want the respect you DON'T get if you are not fighting capable. They also may have some notion of excitement about a fight. Or want to learn the skills there that they won't learn in school here.

and why should women be dependent on a man to protect them who may get injured on the one hand, or be the one they need protecting against on the other?

Oh Christine, you make me ashamed to be a wife and mother. I should have just gone to war like a man. Here I am living in a fantasy world when I could be man like you, someone who is masculine in nature.

Oh woe is me.

With your feelings about your mother and the traits you describe, I can see why you do not like the womanly traits some of us are born with.

There is no inherent conflict between manly and womanly traits. Neither is it "androgynous" to be both caring and competitive, gentle and deadly as appropriate.

The whole notion of "androgynous" in the New Age sense is a total sellout to sexism.

Wife and mother, eh? and how are you going to care for your husband if he becomes crippled or ill and your children if in danger if you cling to your feminine fantasy in the face of some problematic situation that might break loose with or without a major natural disaster?

There was nothing really womanly about my biological so-called mother, such as she showed was a combination act and a means of manipulation.

Tell me, what kind of woman lets her 6 year old or so keep black widows as pets?

I had these two beautiful striped jewels that lived in their web in an open type rack it was only in the 1990s that I found out those were immature black widows. They turn black later, but are just as dangerous when very young, and she grew up in Missouri, there is no way she didn't know what they were.

And I remember her looking at me looking at them, and that look was what I latter learned by pattern spotting on her was evil, she was figuring out which scenario would play out,

scenario a, I live and become accomplished and famous and she is the applauded mother of the successful woman, or scenario b, I die, and she is the tragic mother of the tragically dead child

Thank you Christine. Your many unresolved issues and even your resolved ones really don't belong here. That is what prayer is for. Go to Jesus since you say you know and believe Him. The unforgivenness you seem to harbor about your mother does not have anything to do with what this blog is supposed to be about.

You spent lots of time torturing almost any and every subject to try to make it fit into new age skin. And even if there are somewhat applicable elements why take the low road and get off track into things that the rest of us cannot verify and are merely subjects to your own subjectivity? Your mother cannot refute your words so it is obvious you just want to bludgeon this blog into submission to your opinions and your interests.

Knowledgeable conversation and discussion should not come here to die but you manage to get your stranglehold on the topics way to often.

my response was to someone who argued that I don't appreciate womanly qualities because of the way I feel about my biological so called mother.

In fact, that has nothing to do with it, and one of the things I dislike about her was her ways of keeping me physically weak. If you don't want her heard about here, don't mention or defend her.

As for new age, heh, she liked the KJV for its literary quality. But she didn't like Jesus as Lord.

One time she was yelling at me and for some reason we were in the basement and she told me to get down on my knees and "pray to the Lord."

The thought crossed my mind, and I asked her, just what she meant by "the Lord?" she answered with a bunch of concepts, all impersonal values and virtues which of course she interpreted to mean my submission to a state of black trance and total fixation on her. (It was not a matter of obeying specific orders, she wanted "an attitude." I finally figured out what she meant, and challenged her. I said, "I figured out what you meant by attitude, you want my soul, and YOU CANNOT HAVE MY SOUL!" at which point she looked angry and defeated and physically backed off, and I had less trouble from her for a long time.)

Back to what happened in the basement.

I had grown up reading Prince Valiant in the Sunday comics, so I knew a Lord is not a set of ideas but a person who is a ruler, like King Arthur. So in that frame of mind, I prayed to Jesus to please make her a nice woman, and she gave some exclamation and ran up the stairs.

Years later when some wild scene broke out, I decided satan was screwing with all of us, so I said out loud to the air, "satan, I bind you in Jesus' Name!" and someone else there with us said, "yes, in Jesus' Name!"

And that woman turned tail and ran up the hall to her room.

I realized she was so interfaced to the devil, that when he ran, she ran with him.

Another time I pointed out that The Lord's Prayer where it says "deliver us from evil" is actually more accurately translated, "deliver us from the evil one," which she immediately took personally. (Interesting, eh?)

Always she resisted the idea that demons or the devil could exist as actual beings, everything was just "symbolism." liberal I guess you could call it.

And she kept me out of school though I was reading by age 2 on my own, which got the attention of authorities by the time I was 9 1/2. It took a few more years to get me into school, since my father got me (and unfortunately her also) out of Washington DC and back to California. There she would have been locked up in a mental institution, in the days this could be done without you being dangerous physically, now thanks to Gov. Reagan that is not the case. But she got inside my head, one of three occasions, and without understanding why I was doing this, without it being in my mind or heart to do so, I ran to her saying I would never not mind her again, WONDERING WHY I WAS DOING THIS.

My father in a heartbroken voice said "the bond is too strong," and she stayed. Years later I found out that grandpapa (by then deceased) had thought the bond was too strong to separate me from her without doing me harm, but that wasn't the case.

I repeat I DID NOT UNDERSTAND WHY I WAS RUNNING TO HER OR SAYING THAT,

I WONDERED AT THE TIME AS I WAS DOING IT OR A SECOND AFTER, WHY I SAID THAT.

It was one of the things that stuck in my mind for decades until I figured it all out.

One time after my conversion we were disagreeing about something about God and Jesus and I said "Jesus is the overlord," and she groaned and turned away.

And she used to pridefully speak of herself as stiff necked till I reminded her that was a rebuke from God to the arrogant people.

my response was to someone who argued that I don't appreciate womanly qualities because of the way I feel about my biological so called mother.

In fact, that has nothing to do with it, and one of the things I dislike about her was her ways of keeping me physically weak. If you don't want her heard about here, don't mention or defend her.

As for new age, heh, she liked the KJV for its literary quality. But she didn't like Jesus as Lord.

One time she was yelling at me and for some reason we were in the basement and she told me to get down on my knees and "pray to the Lord."

The thought crossed my mind, and I asked her, just what she meant by "the Lord?" she answered with a bunch of concepts, all impersonal values and virtues which of course she interpreted to mean my submission to a state of black trance and total fixation on her. (It was not a matter of obeying specific orders, she wanted "an attitude." I finally figured out what she meant, and challenged her. I said, "I figured out what you meant by attitude, you want my soul, and YOU CANNOT HAVE MY SOUL!" at which point she looked angry and defeated and physically backed off, and I had less trouble from her for a long time.)

Back to what happened in the basement.

I had grown up reading Prince Valiant in the Sunday comics, so I knew a Lord is not a set of ideas but a person who is a ruler, like King Arthur. So in that frame of mind, I prayed to Jesus to please make her a nice woman, and she gave some exclamation and ran up the stairs.

Years later when some wild scene broke out, I decided satan was screwing with all of us, so I said out loud to the air, "satan, I bind you in Jesus' Name!" and someone else there with us said, "yes, in Jesus' Name!"

And that woman turned tail and ran up the hall to her room.

I realized she was so interfaced to the devil, that when he ran, she ran with him.

Another time I pointed out that The Lord's Prayer where it says "deliver us from evil" is actually more accurately translated, "deliver us from the evil one," which she immediately took personally. (Interesting, eh?)

Always she resisted the idea that demons or the devil could exist as actual beings, everything was just "symbolism." liberal I guess you could call it.

And she kept me out of school though I was reading by age 2 on my own, which got the attention of authorities by the time I was 9 1/2. It took a few more years to get me into school, since my father got me (and unfortunately her also) out of Washington DC and back to California. There she would have been locked up in a mental institution, in the days this could be done without you being dangerous physically, now thanks to Gov. Reagan that is not the case. But she got inside my head, one of three occasions, and without understanding why I was doing this, without it being in my mind or heart to do so, I ran to her saying I would never not mind her again, WONDERING WHY I WAS DOING THIS.

My father in a heartbroken voice said "the bond is too strong," and she stayed. Years later I found out that grandpapa (by then deceased) had thought the bond was too strong to separate me from her without doing me harm, but that wasn't the case.

I repeat I DID NOT UNDERSTAND WHY I WAS RUNNING TO HER OR SAYING THAT,

I WONDERED AT THE TIME AS I WAS DOING IT OR A SECOND AFTER, WHY I SAID THAT.

It was one of the things that stuck in my mind for decades until I figured it all out.

One time after my conversion we were disagreeing about something about God and Jesus and I said "Jesus is the overlord," and she groaned and turned away.

And she used to pridefully speak of herself as stiff necked till I reminded her that was a rebuke from God to the arrogant people.

Christine: All of those ancient armies with significant female platoons were PAGAN, and it shows. The idea would have been regarded with horror in ancient Israel and nothing of the sort is seen in the Old Testament.

Good post 5:37. I was the sarcastic person who wrote Woe is Me. She didn't catch on. Valid discussion about New Age requires participants with clear heads. Christine has a high IQ and a quest for knowledge. Her post about Islam and New Age was quite informative. Her problem is an inability to interact with others. The phrase "My way or the highway" sounds as if it was written to fit her. She fails to realize that others with high IQs read and post here, have done their own research on New Age and their views may be in conflict with hers. She has difficulty treating the views of others with respect. Consequently many, including myself, feel we have to hit harder to get her attention to keep this site a dialog rather than a Christine monologue.

I'm disappointed to see that you were angry with the so-called "Tea Party" on this issue. These reps and senators were doing exactly what they said they would do when campaigning, and honoring their word to their folks back home. Now that the dust has settled, everyone is seeing that everything they were saying about Obamacare is true. Suddenly, what the TP "extremists" were asking for a week ago, a defund or at least a delay, is now looking like a strong possibility from the Dems themselves. If things continue as they have this week, those much-blamed TP reps will be vindicated.

anon. 5:37 Not everything taken for granted in Israel was really okay in an absolute sense. Consider polygamy, divinely tolerated and regulated adultery.

Judges 4:4, 8,9 God made Deborah ruler (Judge) over all Israel, and told her who to appoint Barak to lead the fight, and Barak said he would not go if she did not go with him. That means she was in the thick of it, because commanders in those days led from the front. And God sold Sisera into the hand of a woman, Jael.

Nehemiah 3:12 Shallum and his daughters worked on restoring the city wall in Jerusalem and these MUST HAVE BEEN ARMED because aside from those set for defense ALL workers and load carriers (which in the Middle East traditionally incl. women) were armed. Neh. 4:11,12 SO THE GIRLS WERE ARMED.

THE EARLY CHURCH PROHIBITED MEN FROM BEING WARRIORS ALSO, they were not to join the military, the military members who were Christian were those who converted while already in the military. Violence and bloodshed was not an ideal. Even in OT, if you killed anyone in war or touched a dead body you had to be purified with the Holy Water of the red heifer.

Josephus made the odd remark in reciting The Law, where prohibits cross dressing, he added "especially in your wars." What occasion for cross dressing being notable there? BOTH SEXES WORE SKIRTS AKA ROBES BACK THEN, for work or war these got tucked up to free the legs. The mode of crossdressing then would be HOW THE CLOTHING WAS ARRANGED more than what it consisted of.

This provision Josephus added in his paraphrasing, is not in Masoretic or LXX so he adds it as an oral transmitted interpretation/application.

That would mean a woman if she were a warrior, and apparently there were such, would have to not be thinking of herself, or messaging by appearance that she is not female warrior but male warrior, but rather, that she is female warrior. Some difference.

IN KEEPING THE DISTINCTION, ONE DENIES GENDER ROLE NONSENSE, AFFIRMING GENDER IDENTITY IN NONTRADITIONAL GENDER ROLE. THIS ATTACKS AND DENIES THE WHOLE GENDER ROLE THING.

There are no non evadable laws in OT that limit women. No prohibition on woman warriors, judges, etc. and no difference in pay mandated or by implication allowed. A clever woman buying herself paying her own bride price could exempt herself and her downline from everything that limited them. Only the priesthood was to be of Aaron's sons, and no other specification of men only exists.

"There are no non evadable laws in OT that limit women. No prohibition on woman warriors, judges, etc"

No, and no prohibition in Mosaic Law on lesbian acts either, but that doesn't make them OK does it? It means only that they were unheard of in ancient Israel, so there was no need to legislate.

Interestingly, Israel was the first to put women in the front line in the modern era, and it didn't work out too well: the men tended to take suicidal risks to protect them.

Quite frankly, real men want real women, and that means feminine women not soldiers (however well-toned their bodies are). Martial women tend to marry wimps whom they can bully, but neither party ends up happy because this arrangement is contrary to the order that God ordained.

on the contrary, when you have the prohibition on males having homosexual acts, the female equivalent is included.

Do you think the prohibitions on eating blood or on murder or theft or on doing bad stuff to your brothers, neighbors, etc., applied only to men, and women were free to do these things?

What silliness.

The order God ordained at creation is woman as man's road dog to use biker terminology, something normally applied only to other men.

A SIMILAR PARTNER ezer neged is partner type helper, even one operting from a stronger position to help the lesser at times, and face to face like man to man equal sort of thing. ezer neged translated "helpmeet" loses the implications of the Hebrew.

READ STRONG'S CONCORDANCE.

As for bullying, neither should bully the other.

Lesbianism was hardly unheard of back then, this sort of thing happened in Egypt where they grew up for four generations, and in the Canaanite cultures.

as for that myth about Israeli combat women not being such a good idea, they STILL do this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Women_in_the_Israel_Defense_Forces#Combat_roles cites an AD 2011 article.

China has 250,000,000 women armed.

real men like amazons, who can work and play with them. a man who wants a barbie doll just has an ego problem.

I taught my fiance how to work on cars. Then he got more info from a male mechanic at work but I got him started.

YOU: "on the contrary, when you have the prohibition on males having homosexual acts, the female equivalent is included."

MY REPLY: Would you please explain to me how "to lie with a man as with a woman is abominable" (Lev 18:22, addressed to men) and "man who lies with man like lying with a woman - both have done an abomination" (Lev 20:13) prohibit lesbian acts? Or provide another verse of the Law that does? Be careful not to add to the Law... I am in no doubt that God did abhor such acts, but they are absent from the Law of Moses, implying that they were not a problem among the ancient Israelites. It it went on in ancient Egypt then it would have been something that the Israelites shuddered at. I have been careful with the Hebrew translation here.

It is not ADDING to the Law to recognize that what is an abomination and unnatural for men to do is ditto for women. Remember "The Law" is not just the rules in the Torah but THE WHOLE TORAH and Genesis shows that Adam was male not hermaphroditic and given a woman who was female not hermaphroditic. (hermaphroditic species do exist, these still need two partners.)

Remember also that The Law said, that there could be issues too hard to decide therefore take it to the priests. A lot of the Talmud is about precisely how to sort out unspecified issues. (such as, should a man who is going to be killed for raping his daughter also be fined or not? how many white hairs can a red heifer have before she is not suitable as the red heifer to be sacrified and her ashes used to make The Holy Water of Cleansing? stuff like that.)

The VERY WORD ABOMINABLE referring to same sex action, renders the opposite sex doing same sex action just as abominable, absent a specific order to the contrary.

what's the matter with you, are you a transgender or got a beloved friend or relative who is lesbian?

This kind of narrow approach is exactly what gave rise to all the hypocrisy and game playing of the Pharisees that Jesus rebuked so often.

The words of Leviticus speak for themselves: man must not lie with man as with woman. They simply could not be more gender-specific. If you want to say that they also mean that woman shall not lie with woman as with man then I agree that God abhors it, but IT'S NOT IN THE LAW. Evidently because ancient Israelite women neither did it nor were tempted to. I suspect that your comments about ancient Egypt were about the Ptolemaic dynasty more than 1000 years after the Exodus.

"what's the matter with you, are you a transgender or got a beloved friend or relative who is lesbian?"

I will be doing a two hour interview regarding foundations of the New Age Movement with Dr. Stanley Monteith on his radio networks starting at 11:00 Eastern USA time (8 pm Pacific time) in another half hour. I don't have a link, but suppose you can easily google it or find it.

1. Re: earlier debate many months ago, massacre of German scientists and technicians to cover up research Farrell cites Igor Witkowski in interview source affidavit in a Polish war crimes trialObergruppensfuhrer Jacob Schwernberg (spelling?Sparrenberg?)on trial for his role in killing 60 German scientists and technicians, NOT prisoner laborers.

Present situation due to Patent Offices, originally discoveries kept secret only a few could gain from sales. Anything making you look (or actually be) powerfulwould not be given out to the public. NEED TO KNOWONLY. Common folk need not apply.BTW, Aluminum and Titanium traces in Noah's Ark remains.

3. Argument about woman warriors - their acceptabity in ancient Israel is irrelevant. The issue is strictly can it be done tothe advantage of the nations that do it? the answer is obviously, YES.

King Alfred the Great was Christian and his daughter Aethelflaed ruled Mercia was a famous military leader and tactician, that culture had woman warriors and leaders led from the front, so....

Nehemiah says ALL WHO WORKED ONREBUILDING THE WALL WENT ARMED, as well as having a guard beside them also says Shallum AND HIS DAUGHTERS worked on that rebuilding effort, so the gals were armed also. Josephus in (often paraphrase)reciting The Torah,adds an odd phrase in repeating the law against cross dressing, "especially in your wars."

So that would mean that Israelite women WERE sometimes being warriors. And they were not to take the attitude they were being men, but fulfilling thiswarrior potential of their femininity.

Judges chapter 4 says God made the prophet DEBORAH Judge over all Israel. Closest thing to a king when the only actual kingGod Himself. God told her to select Barak to leadthe war, Barak said he would not go without her. That means she would have been in the thick of the fighting, because leaders in those days led from the front.

4. I make heretical statements? I gave Bible cites as support. But don't most here blindly recite the Nicene Creed with the filioque which RC ADDED which says that The Holy Spirit proceeds fromThe Father AND THE SON, contrary to the Creed as formulated originally, rejected by the firsttwo or three Roman popes presented with it, FIRST TAUGHT BY THE EUNOMIAN HERETICS, who with Arius held that The Son and The Holy Spirit are not fully God but creatures, And totally unbiblical.

Check your own eye.

5. Lesbianism not prohibited in Torah - Jewish site, some rabbis agree since not forbidden explicitly to women, but others take the same tack Itake, that the original model being man and woman in Genesis and the word "abomination" used, lesbianism IS prohibited.

As for non Israelite women okay as prostitutes, Remember the 23,000 men who died in the plague Godsent for fornication with Moabites. And that wasn'teven for pay.

Habakkuk denounces the men who go to harlots(cultic) and prostitutes (secular) and God says He will no longer judge their wives and daughterswho are unchaste because the men themselvesare beyond the tolerated range of unchastity. Why this denunciation if it shouldn't havebeen obvious to those who read The Torah HONESTLY and factored in ALL The Torah not just the specific rules? A couple caught like this would probably escape punishment if the man took her on as wife or officialconcubine (which limited her to just him).

I brought up "the personal" because that usually playsa role in twisted interpretations that result in a picture that sets the stage for undermining values.

Re your point 3 Christine, that earlier discussion was about women actually fighting, rather than being tacticians. Margaret Thatcher and the present Queen led Britain during the Falklands War but they simply made the final decisions on the basis of advice from professional military men. Aethelflaed's Wikipedia entry is entirely consistent with leadership of that sort.

Barak clearly took Deborah ON CAMPAIGN, but where does the OT say that she was in the front line rather than remaining in the camp?

Nobody who is building a wall actually wears a sword and armour while doing the stone dressing and shifting. So the statement that the rebuilders of Jerusalem were armed means that weapons would have been within their reach. But who would have been first to grab them if an enemy came - the men or the women?

You ASSUME that women have a "warrior potential of their femininity" and then look for evidence in the Bible. How about starting by asking whether that is an aspect of godly femininity and then seeing what the Bible says on the subject?

Re 5, the rabbis were writing more than 1000 years after Mosaic Law was given. They are entitled to their opinion but, if you read what Leviticus actually says, it is clear that they are extrapolating from it in banning lesbian acts. To make clear, I am sure that God is disgusted by such acts but they are NOT banned in Mosaic Law.

Like gold does?? Depends on the metal. You need to think how much archeologists have learned to infer from tiny traces. An advanced civilization that got wiped out would leave FAR more traces than the stuff archeologists have found.

"Aluminum and Titanium traces in Noah's Ark remains."

O, not that Mt Ararat nonsense again? It's a PLURAL IN Genesis and refers to the MOUNTAINS of Urartu (in Mesopotamia, but identical to Ararat in Hebrew). The Ararat tradition is less than 2000 years old, the Urartu tradition is far older and on one of the mountains of Urartu there was an Orthodox monastery because it was believed to be where the Ark came to rest. (The monastery did not survive.) Muhammad picked up on that tradition, so Muslims know more about where the Ark landed than most Christians; the peak is called Judi Dagh (Mt Judi or Cudi) today. There are traces of bitumen at the foot of that mountain too, an ancient waterproofing compound not found locally.

The debate to which Christine refers in her first point above is in the thread beneath Constance's blog entry of April 3rd, 2013. The debate was about alleged German nukes during WW2. Here is a quick summary of what is known:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hitlers_Bombe

and you can learn more by clicking on the author of the book that this Wikipedia entry is about, and by clicking on the link to the lead scientist on the Nazi bomb project, Kurt Diebner. All is well documented and we know how far the Nazis didn't get.

Here, in contrast, is material on Witkowski and his source, Jakob Sporrenberg, whom Christine has just brought up:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Igor_Witkowski

It is about a Nazi superweapon not specified as a nuclear bomb,

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Die_Glocke

and not otherwise known. This is classic conspiracy stuff. If you want us to believe it then YOU go prove it, Christine, don't just cite highly speculative material and drop hints like a flirty lady. You have a start too - the transcript of Sporrenberg's war crimes trial.

An analogy: the mathematician Fermat wrote in the 17th century that he had a lovely proof that a certain equation in number theory had no solutions, but he did not give that proof on any piece of paper that has survived. There is an analysis that seems to be a proof that could have been done with the mathematics available in Fermat's time, but it contains a subtle loophole. Hundreds of the world's best mathematicians tried to prove (or disprove) it over the next 300 years but failed until the 1990s when it was proved by Andrew Wiles using highly advanced math. Now, do you think Fermat was 300 years ahead of his time, or do you think he fell for the simple 'proof' with the subtle loophole? We can never be sure, but anyone rational would put their money on the latter, not the conspiratorialist former.

"all talk of roles came AFTER THE FALL, PART OF THE CURSE, get it? got it? good."

Such arrogant phraseology. Eve was made AFTER Adam, FOR Adam, FROM Adam, and later in the Bible Adam gets the responsibility for the Fall even though Eve took the lead - clearly implying that the headship was his even before the Fall.

Dear Christine, this is Anon/5.46am. I now realise that Nehemiah (4:17-18) says the builders kept swords while working. So I was wrong to state otherwise. But that was after the daughters of Shallum had helped with the building. Moreover Nehemiah talks in the previous verse only about his MEN sharing the fighting and the building.

"Nobody who is building a wall actually wears a sword and armour while doing the stone dressing and shifting. So the statement that the rebuilders of Jerusalem were armed means that weapons would have been within their reach."

It would be nice if you would bother to READ The Bible before you comment, instead of ASSUMING things. (And it doesn't say armor just weapons, with skill and agility and aggression you can do without much armoring.) Here is what it SAYS:

Nehemiah 4:11,12 "Those who built on the wall and those who carried burdens loaded themselves in such a way that with one hand they held a weapon, and with the other hand they did the work.

"Every one of the builders, as he, built, had his sword girded at his side, while next to him was the one who sounded the trumpet."

next you say,

"You ASSUME that women have a "warrior potential of their femininity" and then look for evidence in the Bible. How about starting by asking whether that is an aspect of godly femininity and then seeing what the Bible says on the subject?"

When you READ THE BIBLE you find that warrior potential IS NOT AN ASPECT OF GODLY MASCULINITY EITHER, just a necessary evil.

In The Torah, any warrior who killed one of the enemy had to be purified with The Holy Water of the ashes of the red heifer. early Church did not allow members to join the army, killing in war seen as bad because enemy humans are made in God's image only Christians in army were those who converted while in army.Bible says more about wise than warrior men. knightly jousting and duelling we look nostalgically to were actually CONDEMNED BY THE MEDIEVAL CHURCH.

St. Paul analogy spiritual to physical war with armor and weapons, for both sexes clearly therefore implies rejection of so-called femininity shy, retiring, fearful, vacillating. Yet early Christian women were considered very manly of heart by the Romans, who said "what women these Christians have," and one saint on being confronted with a demon disguised as a seductively handsome young man beat him up with a hammer and drove him out.

The tomboy is the real girl. Look in The Bible, what possible feminine model did Eve have? Where was the mother or schoolteacher or peer group who chided her for doing boy type stuff? Eve had no human model but a man, who was pleased by her alikeness to him. Not like women in many cultures scarcely more than animals that were not suitable companions for Adam.

Animals can be beloved pet and help work but you have to be its parent and boss. It is not a companion like another man, God provided woman to be man's companion, all talk of roles came AFTER THE FALL, PART OF THE CURSE, get it? got it? good.

Aethelflaed - leaders in those days HAD TO BE WARRIORS OR WERE DESPISED. Celtic Germanic Saxon often had female warriors, wiipedia "since her husband took no part in the campaign against the Danes, some scholars suggest that she was the real leader of the Mercian people." That means SHE DID TAKE PART IN THE CAMPAIGN."The young Æthelflæd was educated and taught to use weapons as well as military strategy and diplomacy." http://historysheroes.e2bn.org/hero/viewstory/4292

extrapolation on Leviticus - THAT IS WHAT YOU ARE SUPPOSED to do WITH A PROBLEM look for similar and for stated reasons. specific to pagans. you don't have to say lesbianism is okay, to lay the groundwork for others to think so.

anon 8:25, my long post went up before I saw yours. I was reworking it. But you are STILL wrong. Because the verse that said ALL WORKERS WENT ARMED, period, says ALL WORKERS WENT ARMED and also elsewhere we see Shallum's daughters worked on the wall so they also were armed.

"men" is going to include women if most of the people are men. And the typical hauler of wood and stone is going to be FEMALE in Middle Eastern cultures anyway. Water hauling was a low class slave despised line of work, also primarily women's work, and water weighs a ton. THERE IS NO MENTION OF SHALLUM'S DAUGHTERS NOT WORKING AFTER THAT, and the haulers would include women BECAUSE THEY ALWAYS DO IN PRIMITIVE CULTURES THAT DON'T HAVE LATE EUROPEAN OVERSEERS. I doubt you have any problem with the idea women were hauling some of the stuff to the workers, well, they went armed also.

Christine at 8.56 and 9.02, apart from pointing out the error I made re Nehemiah all of your comments go subtly beyond what is actually stated in scripture or in history, and do so not in a logical way but in a way intended to buttress your thesis. I'd say that the comment at 8.10am says all that is necessary in response to you. Capital letters do not strengthen truth claims either.

caps are the best way to emphasize and make sure something is not lost in massive text.

My points go no more beyond Scripture or history than what is blathered about as supposedly Scripture based (but more Scripture twisted actually in some ways) and history, well, some things are embarassing to some people and you have to DIG for them. But they are there.

Did you know that St. Adamnan's Synod in Ireland forbade women to go to war? Why was that needed if not commonplace?

But why was it forbidden? The problem was not his sexism or any modern standard of "femininity." The problem was that women were being forced to go to war even when pregnant or nursing and a lot of serious abuses and his mother finally said, you are a bishop, use your power. Well, he brought by miracle sterility upon the men so they could not produce sons and also introduced the idea that women should not be beaten. In fear of his miracles they came to heel.

Apparently these warrior women were easily cowed by family and other rank superiority issues, just the same as many men are who are ferocious to outsiders and whining cowering slaves of their bosses in their clan or tribe.

A modern warrior woman might be an individualist of sorts, in a culture where it was taken for granted she might be as clan collectivist as anyone else, to her disadvantage, and perhaps displace her hostility upon the outsider like the abused male lower rank in families might do.

The glaring word image of Genesis chapter two eclipses all the shallow pseudo biblical exegesis (actually eisegesis and failure to account for ungodly baggage in Israel and euro church cultures) you have probably been fed by Focus on the Family and similar dubious operations.

How often have I shuddered at "Christian" explanations of men's and women's "needs" and "different natures" that are mostly just

Christine, your personal reactions to issues of femininity and the Bible are best kept out of this. The fact is that you said "all talk of roles [male and female] came AFTER THE FALL, PART OF THE CURSE" and Anon@8.10am pointed out that "Eve was made AFTER Adam, FOR Adam, FROM Adam, and later in the Bible Adam gets the responsibility for the Fall even though Eve took the lead - clearly implying that the headship was his even before the Fall." If you don't like that, take it up with God not me.

1. made from his side not his head to rule him or his foot to be ruled by him.

Taking the lead, pals take turns taking the lead on anything, who thinks of it first, sometimes a pattern is established. But the problem was NOT that she took the lead but that Adam listened to her when she advocated something God had forbidden.

2. Strong's Concordance the Updated version seems to have left out what the original included, separate Hebrew entries for help and meet. Now it is one, ezer only. but go online get the interlinear Bible and see it is two words, and "meet" actually comes first because of grammar, and it means "suitable" http://biblehub.com/interlinear/genesis/2-18.htm

and pursue this more, see where ezer is applied to God Himself as helper, and to men, neged root or keneged "suitable" incl. meaning of before corresponding to matchinghttp://godswordtowomen.org/help.htm explores this more.

So there was NO headship before the Fall, and that after came only by default, if woman craves the approval of man, the very state of mind we are repeatedly warned against having in general. Jesus warns about those who crave honor from other men instead of the honor from God. This is even worse in women but just like most of the rest of the curses can be mitigated. And mitigation of them is not sin, or else all development of labor saving from the plow to now are sin.

God said to THEM to have dominion over nature (chapter 1) and called THEIR name Adam when He created them (chapter 5).

As for the New Age IT IS TOTALLY SEXIST, IT AFFIRMS ALL SEX LINKED SUPPOSED QUALITIES AND ROLE AND ACTIVITY LIMITATION,

and INSTEAD OF DENYING THEM AS WOULD BE BIBLICAL,

what it does is to AFFIRM THEN TRY TO COMBINE AND TRANSCEND THEM, in its abominable androgyny concept, which plays to transgender, polyfidelity, homosexuality (the term properly applies to both sexes) etc. etc.

So in fact, the New Age is at its core as sexist as the allegedly biblical but actually unbiblical worldview. Which is probably why we have "difference feminism," the biggest sellout since accepting transgenders and gays in the feminist movement.

Occult philosophy has always accepted and advocated sex character/sex roles enshrining them in its systems and coding. That should tell you something is wrong right there.

This is a matter of exegesis Christine, nothing to do with New Age. Eve took the lead, Adam went along with it, they both did wrong, but Adam gets the blame. That clearly implies his headship of the couple, and before the Fall of course. You have to be very highly educated indeed to find that hard to understand.

BOTH got blamed, interrogated separately and punished separately. In Adam all die because he is the fountainhead of the old humanity, and he sinned. But the focus of headship and dominion was not of one sex over the other but of both sexes over nature as superintendants under God.

When you read Genesis without blinders and assumptions, no education needed but simple literacy, it is obvious.

Who are you submitted to Christine? Doesn't appear to be the Bible as The Final Authority since you seem to need to cherry-pick the text to make some obscure point only you are interested in. Actually it appears to be no one...

Everybody brings assumptions to the biblical text Christine; the question is whether we are prepared to let the text challenge those assumptions. Let others read Genesis 2-3 and decide for themselves which of us is right.

don't forget to check Hebrew meanings use old Strong's or online, notice where same words are used elsewhere and how.

Remember Deborah ruler (judge) over all Israel.

Watch out for the sin of pride, which is the driver on needing to feel superior in charge, etc.

And remember Judges 4:4, Deborah put in charge over all Israel as a ruler aka judge.

Paul references "the law" saying women to be in subjection but Torah never says that however pagan laws did, so this is partly PR effort to not freak out the pagans. Prisca named ahead of her husband many times and "the church that is in THEIR house," and you put it together, you get women who cling to Eve's bad tendencies can keep her curse, and if you are in a legal social context where men rule, then they must be like Christ to the Church not like Genghis Khan to old Russia."love your wives as yourselves," same phrasing as Christ saying to men "love your neighbors as yourselves."

Review what I wrote about CURTIS SLIWA and his GUARDIAN ANGELS in HIDDEN DANGERS and then google the size and scope of his operation now. A very dangerous person leading a New Age army and still growing. He and former wife Lisa Sliwa whom I debated in Portland, Oregon in 1982 were cover subjects on NEW AGE JOURNAL in late 1981. This was only one small part of the New Age Movement, but it has grown immensely since the 1980s.

Could you write English that is comprehensible please? The purpose of adherence to grammatical rules is simply to be understood, and it is to your own advantage to do that. Some people here are prepared to decipher your sentences, but most will just give up. When you deprecated grammar a while ago I think your true target was actually a florid style (which I agree is out of place in expository writing). But style is not the same as grammar.

The new age aims for an androgenous humanity, where gender is not important or is even abolished.

They know that people will not accept it overnight, so they argue that we are moving away from Judeo-Christian Patriarchy to a matriarchy and then we will move away from there to transgendered beings, beyond male and female.

The Christian concern is not that the sky will fall if men and women do not fit into certain categories, but that the recent invention of sexual orientation is being used justify immoral behaviour.

There are secular scientists who are also picking up on this, and hence the revival in the science of sex differences. because they think we have gone to far with trying to deny differences between men and women.

Some things can change, some things don't.

Only men can be fathers, only women can be mothers, even if they can both be rocket scientists.

"The new age aims for an androgenous humanity, where gender is not important or is even abolished."

you didn't understand me, perhaps I did not speak clearly.

The New Age androgyny would eliminate all gender difference not by denying they exist outside of social programming and brainwashing, but rather,

they AFFIRM that they exist and that to reach our next level of evolution, we must merge these so that everyone is male and female.

As for only men can be fathers, yeah, only men have penises and produce sperm. Only women can be mothers, yeah, only women have wombs, produce eggs, give birth and give milk (granted all or most of this can be duplicated technologically or soon can be, but it will still require eggs taken from a woman.

And that is ALL THERE IS to fatherhood or motherhood. The combination of sternness, gentleness, discipline, compassion, teaching, clothing, feeding, comforting, and pushing to overcome fear and weakness, all these things should be done by both parents. "complementary characteristics" is just incompatibility struggling to get along.

This is not New Age androgyny, this is making Jesus Christ the model for both sexes. This is not New Age androgyny which says YES there are inherent sex traits spiritually present occultism wise and in people, this is saying NO the differences are programmed and shouldn't be there. Look at how a good animal handler operates. Love and sternness. gentleness and discipline, guidance, and some allowance to learn by mistakes, this is how a parent should be regardless of the parent's sex.

The problem of gay marriage is not that only one character type will be present in parenting, though it may be. The problem is the model of perversion as okay. Period. Nothing else.

Boys and girls were both raised by widowed mothers or widowered men usually with some help from extended family in 1800s America and no one thought anything of it, until some nuclear family ideal was established. (probably to help the real estate market. don't be living with parents in two or three generation households.)

"This is not New Age androgyny which says YES there are inherent sex traits spiritually present occultism wise and in people, this is saying NO the differences are programmed and shouldn't be there."

Dear Christine, the bodies of men and women are different, the DNA is different, the hormones are different, but they are still both human equally, so why should they not also be different spiritually while being human equally? What evidence can you offer to convince me that they are identical spiritually while being different physically? I have phrased this carefully without assumptions, so please do not make assumptions about my beliefs in any reply.

Real quick, your comment about Eastern and Western mysticism being the same - a trance is a trance is a trance.... Reminded me of an article about the modern worship music - specifically that from Hillsong (!) - that referenced how it can cause people to go into "trance"-like states of "worship", and questioned whether it was possible for even what is labeled as "Christian worship music" to be a channel for the enemy to use by opening the mind and spirit to a "spiritual" experience brought on by the repetitive strands of this kind of music. Think of the 24-hour worship sessions that are on IHOP's website (not sure if they are still doing that or not). The music is very trance-like, and I believe the IHOP group are part of the deception coming on Christians, to deceive them if possible.

Christine is guilty of the same thing as what the Lord addressed in Job 38:2. Who is this that darkeneth counsel by words without knowledge? She would rather overstate the obvious in the basic rudiments of human anatomy and downplay and even undermine Scriptural Truth to make her own ego-centric point. God assigned roles In The Beginning that highlight the very things He wants understood to make Himself understandable to the part of His creation that was made in His Image-us. He carries that Wisdom through in all human relatings. Physical/emotional differences and roles enhance the many beautiful variables to increase our Awe and Wonder at how He makes all things come together for Good in His Good Plan's Intentions. Sinful man in arrogance, loves to split hairs and argue with God...(did He really say that? is that what His Ways really imply?) That is the hellish prideful approach that the devil savors to attempt a poke in God's eye using our sinful loud mouths and finite mind's take on Awesomeness. The spiritual understandings in the two separate yet equal parts in man and womankind coming together wonderfully expresses Spirit touching spirit that all other combos in the sexual arena cannot do. Marriage is meant by God to sanctify the bodies minds and spirit for the hope of completing this exquisite pattern. Not religious but relational at it's highest-related to Him in Love with His Love best expressed in relating His Cross to bring two opposed together (God and man reunited in Peace once again). What He began in Genesis still stands no matter how much people want to argue or even dumbly (darkenly) try to explain rather than just believe, Christine.

See if you can get hold of the book "Playing with Fire" by Alex Robertson. The author is a committed evangelical Christian (I've met him) and professional musician (he has played violin in a pro orchestra and a semi-pro string quartet) who has also been part of a Christian worship group. He says that he can play music that will convince most charismatic Christians that they are experiencing God when all they are doing is appreciating the music at a deep personal level - so he understands the difference, and he tries in his music not to do that. He also believes that many worship musicians today do not understand the difference properly.

anon 10:12 your arguments as to some phys. diff. means spiritual diffs is the same as used for racism.

anon 12:12, you are the one who is doing what you accuse me of. WHERE ARE THE ROLES ASSIGNED BEFORE THE FALL? and even after, it is by a curse on Eve of overconcern about male opinion, which like the hard work curse, can be mitigated and should be.

Naming her Eve because she is the mother of all living does not assign a role or personality type, it merely reports an historical fact. In The Bible both what we call fatherly and what we call motherly attitudes are ascribed to God. This doesn't prove He is female or androgynous. If anything, since we are made in His image and likeness, it would underscore that our two sexes should be more alike to each other. (The best way to do that is eliminate sin incl. personality traits you think are okay but are pride and manipulation and so forth maximize virtue and the end result is the same in both.)

What you are doing is reading into Scripture what your baggage takes for granted.

Practical experience of individuals, cultures across geography and millennia refutes this. Even the specifics on roles and status etc. vary over time and place.

The Bible REPORTS EXISTENCE of roles it never ASSIGNS them and where they exist already mitigates them. This in itself should give you pause. Eve was a suitable partner because like to Adam, this is the Hebrew meaning, deal with it.

Throw out your books from "Christian" family stuff and start from scratch with The Bible.

1 Timothy 2: 7-15 check this out Christine.....from scratch. Especially v 12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.

Now we all know Paul did not say this was his humble opinion. This is sound teaching!!!!! If you want to toss this teaching aside as a cultural attitude, or what ever,,,,then i suggest you toss out the whole book its written in.

The fact of the matter is, this teaching, and its interpretation by the modern church of babylon, is a good barometer for just were we are at in the apostasy. A lot more could be said about this.....but i thought i would just SCRATCH the surface.

Timothy cite context, hecklers playing the game of asking questions to heckle, obviously, since the passage also says that if they want to learn anything they should ask their husbands at home.

"usurp authority" is AUTHENTEIN, the one time this is used, and it is almost obscene, so we are talking about someone using sensual allure to be an object of adoration and obedience.

http://godswordtowomen.org/kroeger_ancient_heresies.htm

red green brown alliance, excellent article mentions "national bolshevism." This is the third position or perhaps same as "third way" Constance mentions on her blog.

National Bolshevism, Third Position, though it reflects concepts in play a long time ago, got its start in modern times in 1980s San Francisco with some satanists. Intereting. I think it was Bob Heick who started the modern form and these odd names like National Bolshevism. Rocker ("industrial" rock) Boyd Rice was in on this, then he jumped ship to be an alleged descendant of King David through the Merovingians see Tracy Twynan.

I first became aware of The American Front when I was researching a satanic but mostly disguised cult in the SF Peninsula, networked all over the country. A secret core element did human sacrifice. Apparently after a different guy (who spent more time getting busted and going to prison than doing much political work) took over, there was some kind of purge because the original bunch was too racist and too satanic or at least too overtly satanic. Though the founding group may have been laughable the IDEAS they promoted in their rock and satanism and whatnot networks in Europe and Russia are not laughable.

In the 2000s there was a formal support of Bin Laden on their page before they went offline or rather, went underground.

I had and still have my own baggage, but one of them was the filioque, which once I started looking at the arguments about it, and its history, and Scripture, I realized it was unbiblical. historically it is a Roman Catholic addition to The Creed, objected to by the pope at the time but popular usage overran doctrine and the rest is history.

Christine, I wrote at 10.12am, "the bodies of men and women are different... but they are still both human equally, so why should they not also be different spiritually while being human equally? What evidence can you offer to convince me that they are identical spiritually while being different physically?" You replied: "your arguments as to some phys. diff. means spiritual diffs is the same as used for racism".

You imply that if there were a difference between the spirituality of men and women because they differ physically then there might be a difference in the spirituality of races because they differ physically. I think this is a false analogy, but let me ask a slightly more restricted question: Can you give me any evidence that, within any particular racial group of your choosing, the spirituality of men and women is identical?

You deny that men and women, while being both fully human, might differ spirituality even though they differ physically. I have not written a word denying it, just asked you for your evidence for what is a considerable claim. Do you not want to convince people of what you say?

okay, why don't you prove from Scripture that the sexes are so inherently different spiritually?

you can't prove it from Church history, where women had such manly minds and courage the Romans persecuting them were impressed, "what women these Christian have!"

you can't prove it from the headship of Jesus issue, because Scripture also says the Church is to grow up into its head, there is no indication that women are to not develop the same mix of courage, kindness and sternness as appropriate that Jesus Himself showed? (and these all emanating from the same core motive are not in conflict, anymore than there is conflict between the image of God as just and God as loving because His anger flows from His love for whatever He loves that is under attack either a physical being or people, or a moral or theological issue.)

Show me where it says that only men take on the armor of Ephesians, or explain why not only Aquila but BOTH Priscilla and Aquila instructed Apollos the word is "they" in Acts 18:26?

Show me where it says men shall not raise children and women shall not go out to do business in the bazaar or haul heavy weight like water or work the fields if able to do so, which by the way, are traditional activities of women in the Middle East and Africa?

Show me where in The Torah it is forbidden for women to own property, take a role in tribal decisions, be in combat, or get paid less for the same work?

In 1 Tim 2 AUTHENTIEN is the present infinitive, relating to a condition, not the aorist infinitive (which would end -AI) which relates to an event. In context it means that a woman must not have a teaching ministry over men - in other words, a woman should not be a Christian version of a rabbi. It does not rule out a woman giving an occasional talk, as the aorist infinitive would. (The 1 Cor 14 passage also quoted simply means that women must not interrupt the speaker, even to ask for clarification; I have seen seminars ruined by an audience indulging in excessive to-and-fro with the speaker to the point that his message got lost.)

"You imply that if there were a difference between the spirituality of men and women because they differ physically then there might be a difference in the spirituality of races because they differ physically. I think this is a false analogy, "

No, I am pointing out that in the old arguments for racism there are exactly these issues raised, if by "spirituality" you mean the range of mental and emotional features.

If they are wrong in race, and they are, then they are wrong in sex issues. Sure, you will find some differences like these between sexes in some animal species, and between many animal species.

but if WE are made in the image of God, which Genesis twice states, chapter one and chapter five, then you cannot expect both sexes to inherently (if not encouraged in one direction and suppressed in another, and bear in mind the tendency to copy what one sees around one) display radical differences. Individuals vary but the overall picture should be the same.

But such social and copying forces exist. Right down to physical punishment in some places and times.

And what about this statistic? worldwide boys show higher spatial test skills and ergo higher math, these seem to be related,

UNLESS

the boys are overprotected (like the typical girl) and the tomboys (girls who are athletic and do boy stuff) show the socalled male spatial and math skills.

Apparently some intellect issues boil down to sports or lack thereof.

I ought to know, I was kept inactive and isolated on one pretext after another, and no effort to counter any sloth of mine, it was encouraged, and I have a math block.

Christine, I am not making any claim about whether the spirituality of men and women is different, except that both are in the image of God. That leaves room for lesser differences, but I am not asserting that lesser differences exist - merely asking for your evidence that such differences do not exist. You are making a definite assertion to that effect. For the third time of asking, have you any evidence? I'm sure you would not wish anybody to draw the conclusion from your rhetorical diversions the first two times you were asked that you have no genuine evidence.

You so prove my point Christine. Their genders (Adam and Eve) have specific functions to fulfill the mandate of heaven to be fruitful and multiply in the earth. Fruitful also means much more than numbers if you are paying attention. The order of Home and Family was first established before the fall and certainly before every other institution that would become necessary as the population grew. Your cart seems always before your horse in much of your explaining anyhow. Looks obvious that your own unresolved experiences (is it unforgiveness?) with home and family have prejudiced your view about what the Bible is clearly presenting-your often spews show your hand. Are you unsubmitted in the good Biblical sense?Though the curse upon those sinners, we all hail from, made for great hardship, yet is, the Still Greater Opportunity for God to prove His Grace to redeem all of that fallen-ness. That backdrop expressed in the Bible's thought that where sin did abound Grace did much more abound. Is that not the bottom line after all? All the hair-splitting and explaining since time began and prevalent in your attitude has not changed God's Plan in the slightest. Your "psychology and psychiatry" stab at it upon this blog are unconvincing. Simple believing rather than arguing to one-up the rest of us would prove a brand new life for you.

anon 7:38 I have given evidences that the differences don't exist, outside of special driving of them in those directions. The most glaring kind is the history of effective use of women in infantry and cavalry. (In some burials there were found slightly smaller and lighter swords more easily handled by a shorter, and shorter arm less leverage person, in women's graves.)

I have cited the Romans noticing that Christian women had manly courage.

I have cited the link between math/spatial awareness and sport in both sexes.

I will not hog the blog with more of this. Any additional research you can do for yourself.

About Me

As an active Michigan lawyer, I practice my profession primarily in Macomb, Oakland and Wayne counties of Michigan, USA (248-253-0333). Sometimes I do work in my old "stomping grounds" of our State Capitol, Lansing, Michigan on administrative, state law related matters, as well. I've enjoyed active and stimulating careers in government, politics, law and as a published and translated author. In the past, I have worked for the Michigan House of Representatives, the Michigan State Senate, and the City of Highland Park, Michigan. I'm the author of the first major critical book about the New Age Movement, THE HIDDEN DANGERS OF THE RAINBOW: The New Age Movement and our Coming Age of Barbarism (1983); A PLANNED DECEPTION: The Staging of a New Age Messiah (1986). Currently, I'm completing a volume about Javier Solana, the Barcelona Process, Israel and the European Union. Email me cumbey@gmail.com.