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All I can say is, ANYTIME...ANYWHERE. Sorry for not being on as much and I hope you all don't think I'm neglecting you. I'm currently preparing for my PhD candidacy & comprehensive exams (which I scheduled for the week of Thanksgiving) and if I pass, I'll have 1-2 more years to finish up on my research and I'm done! Pray that I pass and at this time (changes tone of voice) I would like to send a shout-out to Lisa and Zephyr. Love,Minhie Me

Hi yall since Im new I read most of the postings since september I never knew u could travel abroad with HIV anyway movin on I liked the cruise idea,As far as the educational part goes NO! being that i used to be an AIDS Educator Im not too keen on sittin through lectures n presentations ive been to so many conferences conventions etc etc thats why i quit. I always felt those kinda events were for peoplel who like to hear themselves talk LOL I think it should be a socail event myabe have a meet n greet session over cocktails if we did do a crusie would it be a Gay one or a str8 one? Im a transsexual so i fit in either way LOL as long as theres a good bar n some good music n i can go swiming in my DKNY swimsuit Im cool seriosuly i think comfortability is an important factor i know the gay cruise or str8 cruise is a lil passe but i think it could be a serious issue I just dont want us all to get there n people form clicks n then u dont see then half tha time except at check out time or leaving or comin back to tha hotel there should be some fun events planned as a group i know its tacky to to do tha tourist thing i think it would be fun how bout NYC? or Key West? or Disneyworld? or tijuana? New Orleans Mardi Gras ? just ramblin on n throwin ideas out there I was apart of a ASO that had a drop in center n we all planned a bus trip to Cedar Point we cooked our own food brought our own drinks n was there from open to close we had a ball !

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I've spent half my life tryin to get rid of my dick and the rest of my life tryin to get my hands on one!

You really seem to have come up with so many good ideas and raised so many valid questions and come up with many reasonable accommodations. So many people want so many different things, that I don't envy the co-cordinators for the next AMG.

Since the last two meets have been wonderful for us the fact still remains that they have also served as our yearly trips. Unfortunately, we had been travelling to Europe each winter to spend New Year's in a new World Capital each year. Personally, since we can't afford to do both, I really want to return to our pattern before the meets and have told Joe that I would prefer to go back to Europe. That way we are getting everything that we want. Then in a year or two, we could consider another meet. I'm liking the idea of more regional-type meets, with smaller groups with similar likes and dislikes as opposed to any mega kind of meet.

While everyone has treated more than kindly, well, with a very few exceptions, I really feel that after we move I'm going to want to go back to Amsterdam first for a few days and then to Germany or Italy or Hungary. I don't see an AMG happening to suit us. But I know you all will have the best time. Have fun!

I'm a brand-newbie, so this falls under "what the hell do you know", but I must say that Las Vegas is soooo ugly and chintzy to to me. And for those who don't like throwing their money away in slot machines- a huge bore. Someone earlier in this thread said "somewhere more beautiful" . I say YES to that.San Francisco is my vote. Or, alternatively, we just let Newt decide.

San Diego, CA -- great gay district (Hillcrest), great straight bars and clubs down the hill in downtown, lots to do, lots to see, Seaworld, the Zoo, museums, funky shopping districts, upscale malls, outstanding restaurants, the weather is great, airfare can be had cheaply thanks to USAirways, Southwest and Jetblue, airport is within 10 minutes of downtown or hillcrest via cheap cab. Extensive trolley system going from Mexico up to downtown, through the mission valley hotel and shopping area out to the eastern 'burbs. Outstanding bus system that is CHEAP. No fear of walking hand-in-hand almost anywhere. Too bad it is in the US and our nonUS friends could have trouble getting here.....

First of all : Anne and Ric, a big hug and thank you for organising the event 2007.

The location is not that important to me.San Fransisco area seems nice, San Diego as well. Retreat sort of location sounds very attractive. Las vegas just doesn't seem right for a gathering of our kind.

I really think the location should offer us the possibility for"spontaneous get to-gethers" in nature, a quiet space where we can talk, an area were there is no alcohol or smoke, just a nice space for exchange of emotions and thoughts.I missed that in Montreal.

I adore nature, woods, lakes etc. because they have the right energy to stimulate outing of emotions.

My expectations? Much more time to spend with many more members.I left Montreal with a bit of a "missed opportunity" feeling. Too little time , too busy city for closer encounters.

I think some educational programme may be scheduled. However, leave enough time for sharing private time wit each other.

That is my 2 cent.

Hug

Hermie

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Diagnosed in 1987 and still kickingViread, Kivexa (Epzicom),Viramune once daily

I agree, Vegas is not the place for a group gatherings...but if the location turns out to be in San Francisco then I'm heading off to my dream in Vegas after the gathering for a few days..if I'm going to be that close to living my dream I'm not going to miss the chance...so if anyone wants to join me that would be great... ..but we do need somewhere where we can be together as a group with more quiet venues where we can sit and talk...the alcohol free sounds ok to me..but being a smoker not sure about the smoke free venue...

There hasn't been too many suggestions that I wouldn't like to visit, but seeing as we are supposed to be giving our thoughts -- here are my top 3:

1. Seattle -- always wanted to go there!2. San Diego -- My daughter and grandkids live there, so an added bonus3. Chicago -- haven't been there since I was 10 AND (if we are intent on a US locale), it's in the middle of the country (well, from a coastal perspective anyway).

My expectations:

I'm not opposed to formal education opportunities, but I don't think it should be the focus. Everytime a bunch of people living with this virus meet and talk, education happens. I think this type of "education" is likely to last longer anyways! I would be coming for the social, to meet people, share good times and, of course, give and get alot of hugs. I like the idea of having scheduled "informal" sessions for people to drop by and chat. I"m not sure how big these gatherings are, but if the size warrants, I think having a couple of options during the day and evening would be a good thing. I don't mind people partying, but I've been sober for going on 17 yrs (Oct 29th actually), so I would not want partying to be the only options (not that there is anything wrong with it).

Bottomline -- I think I (we, if I can bring my negative partner??) will go just about anywhere, and while my personality craves structure (I was called "black and white" in one my threads-- and I couldn't argue that ) -- I'm learning to "go with the flow".

I would like to propose both the Russian River and San Francisco as the next Gathering site. This allows us, as Hermie says, "...to adore nature, woods, lakes etc. because they have the right energy to stimulate outing of emotions. (and) more time to spend with many more members."

We could start out at the Russian River for 3 nights (Tues, Wed, Thurs ) then add-on a weekend in San Francisco (Fri, Sat, Sun.)

Our first two Gatherings were, officially, 3 nights (Fri,Sat,Sun) and it was obvious they were not long enough. Many people, in fact, showed up a day or two early and others stayed later. So let's make it a 6 night affair instead of 3 nights.

The Russian River Resort of Guerneville is a small, cosmopolitan town about 2 hours north of San Francisco. It's noted for his hospitality and openness and Redwood forests, the River, of course, (river trips, fishing and bathing.) Just to the west a few miles is the Pacific Ocean (Jenner by the Sea). To the east is Napa Valley: Wine Country.

There are a number of resorts within walking distance of the town which has 2 bridges, a couple of stoplights, and restaurants and mixed bars. You want to walk down the street with your boa and hand-in-hand with your sweetie? Not a problem.

The days would be free to do whatever you like. But being at the River would give us the opportunity to interpret those Sustiva dreams, take a Pill Shot, entertain at open mic and lets not forget Karioke!

Then we could go to San Francisco for the weekend (Fri, Sat and Sun. nights.) Walk the Golden Gate Bridge, stroll down Polk St., take the trolley to the Ferry Building, ride the Cable Cars, cruise the Castro and wander South of Market. And, of couse, visit the bars.

OF course this option allows for a lot of flexability. We can add San Francisco on to the beginning if you prefer. Or, if 6 nights is too many, you're certainly welcome to join the Gathering later in the week or you can skip SF altogether and go, oh say, for example, to Las Vegas.

As for time, well it's never wise to predict the weather but September is the best time for San Francisco. Summers, including August, are just too damn chilly. Also, after Labor Day, the resorts in Gureneville (Russian River) would be cheaper.

I think this is a great suggestion (and not because I live within spittin' distance of both locales).

As you said, it IS the best of both worlds -- San Francisco...well, it's San Francisco, come on!

But the Russian River area (and specifically the town of Guerneville) is a nice, relaxing area with lots to do for those who wish to be active. Or you can just walk the street(s) and lounge under the redwoods there. Are there more hot tubs than people here or does it just seem that way?

The Armstrong Redwood Grove in Guerneville rivals Muir Woods, but has far less visitors (which in my mind makes it all the more spectacular).

There is a nice gay/straight mix in Guerneville also. I have seen many gay couples arm-in-arm on the main drag, walking past little old ladies -- no one cares. Very Northern California, lol.

Guerneville is only about 9 miles from the Pacific Ocean, where there are numerous beaches for those so inclined (magnificent vistas from the trails above, BTW).

I like the idea of "town and country"....many people can come for both, or just an "either/or" deal.

It seems like the particulars could be worked out without too much difficulty. There are several members who live in this vicinity too.

(and Jan...River Rock Casino is about 20ish miles from Guerneville, and of course there are cheap flights to Vegas from Oakland on Southwest Airlines).

Think about it....John

Here's a pic of the Sonoma Coast where the Russian River meets the Pacific Ocean. We were there this past July. Beautiful place!

We could have relaxing, more intimate days amid the redwoods and the flexibility of the days could allow for more structured activities some members have mentioned.

Then, a couple of days in the city after the Russian River would be fun as well. San Francisco has so much to offer (and not just the Castro). There is something for everyone, including some great restaurants, ferry trips to Alcatraz, lots more.

I think this might be a great selection because it really does offer a bit of something for everyone.

For those traveling from outside the U.S., I would like to investigate how those of us already here might be able to help facilitate their joining us.

Oh, and Jan, I would be glad to spend a few days in Vegas with you after the gathering. I think that would be a real hoot!

I think it all sounds wonderful, as you and Robert said the best of both worlds, city and rural, I think it is important to have somewhere for us to be able to spend more time together and Russian River sounds the perfect spot, and to be able to spend some time in San Francisco as well would be great.

Selfish I know, but this way it means I get to visit three places in the States (I'm including Vegas) places up until now was something I could only dream about...I figure if I'm going to travel all that way I want to get in as much as I can...

HugsJan (who is sitting here at 6.30am only because her grandaughter refused to let her have a sleep in.. )

I would like to propose both the Russian River and San Francisco as the next Gathering site. This allows us, as Hermie says, "...to adore nature, woods, lakes etc. because they have the right energy to stimulate outing of emotions. (and) more time to spend with many more members."

What a lovely idea!

And for those who don't know anything about the Russian River and Guerneville, specifically:

Guerneville is a cozy little hamlet nestled deep within the heart of healing redwood trees in Western Sonoma County. Established in the late 1800's as a logging town, it was known as “Stumptown” for the countless number of redwood tree stumps left by the loggers who pillaged the forests for the raw materials they provided. It was later named Guerneville after a local mill Owner by the last name of Guerne who carved a living milling on the river.

From the early 1920's through the 50's, The Russian River was a booming, thriving area; a retreat for many bay area residents and many early decade Hollywood Stars. Big Bands of the era (Tommy Dorsey, Benny Goodman, and others) were drawn to the area, favoring several local venues.

With the Technology boom in California, and further developments of local wineries in Sonoma County in the latter half of the 1900’s, Guerneville was rediscovered as a resort town, primarily by the homosexual community. Many residents of the area, during the AIDS pandemic of the early 80's, moved there seeking solitude and serenity in the beauty of the area, in hope of living out what they believed to be their last years in comfort.

Today, Guerneville has become a welcoming community of hospitable survivors - Straight, Gay, Negative, Positive, and the like. And is still a favored vacation spot for Bay Area residents. Surrounded by mountains and lush redwood forests, the People of the Russian River, unlike the those of San Francisco, observe a sunny and warm climate Spring through Fall (June through late September), interrupted by only a long rainy season.

Through its history Guerneville's rustic charm has been preserved. Through state laws prohibiting the further destruction of redwood trees, land developing has been kept to a minimum, and local laws prohibit big businesses from forming along the river. Its economy is tourist based, there are several resorts within town limits, and the locals are exceptionally friendly.

Guerneville is a small town; its Main Street is approximately three blocks long and is comprised of mom-and-pop shops, watering holes, and diners and any of the buildings still look as they did in 1920. Rich in community and spirit, it is a town that time has truly forgotten.

The suggestion of Russian River/San Francisco is amazing!!! What a great combo. I agree with Hermie - this suggestion has built in positive energy!!! Now we need to get the time shifted back into August - temperature is not a problem in mid-coastal California.

I love San Francisco, and especially the amenities outside of the city, such as the red wood forest and the wine country. Unfortunately, I wonder if the average AMG participant can afford to vacation in the bay area. I also wonder if the grant committee can stretch the donated funds in a town like San Fran. The airfare should be fine. I think the cost to travel to the bay area (sfo, oakland or san jose airports) are comparable to other major cities. But what about hotel costs and the cost of dining out? How much are people willing (and able) to spend on a hotel in the city? What level of quality are we looking for? How much can people afford to spend on a night out on the town (drinks, meal, entertainment, etc..) and is that doable in S.F.? Do we know the average costs for a meal in the city? These are all factors I think we need to consider, along with the natural beauty of a location. If we find a reasonable priced hotel, but one that is located on the outskirts of the city, are people willing to commute to the city (from say an airport hotel) for entertainment purposes?

If we do a resort in Russian River, and it happens to be a gay resort, are people going to be okay with that? Given the discussions we have had (recently) about the hotel being located in the gay part of town, should we not discuss expectations in terms of resorts clientele?

You raise some very valid points Cliff. When SFO was mentioned I started to do some basic research. The average price for a 2 star hotel in the Knob Hill area is $89 all they up to and over $139 for a 3 star hotel in the same area. Everything else of course increases from there. On top of that, the hotel tax in SFO is 14%.

As far as dining, Zagat just released their 2007 survey which ranks an average meal in SFO at $35.96.

NOW, SFO is definitely doable on a budget with some planning as long as everyone is willing to sacrifice some quality for value. It would be very rare to find a hotel the caliber and price of the one y'all had in Montreal. One question that I ask of those who went to Montreal was did you utilize the many services that the hotel supplied. If not, would you be willing to sacrifice having those amenities available to you (room service, on site restaurant, etc) for a value priced hotel?

I went to SFO a few years ago and paid $85 a night in the Union Square area. This hotel didn't have AC, housekeeping was on request, and there was no dining/bar facilities. It worked for me as a single traveler, but I wouldn't necessarily recommend it for a group as diverse as we are here.

Personally, I still think the best value for the money would be a cruise. Perhaps a 3 night cruise with a pre or post stay in the city of embarkation. Both Royal Caribbean and Carnival offer 3 and 4 night cruises out of San Diego. Due to the relationship I have with both of the cruise lines I have no doubt I can secure a cruise fare of around $100 (or less) per night, which of course includes all meals, entertainment, and accommodations.

There is no doubt about the high hotel rates in San Francisco. The 2 star hotel Dennis mentioned is near "Union Square" which, in itself is a one block park surrounded by Macys, high-end hotels and boutiques. Just adjacent to Union Square is the "Tenderloin" or the closest thing SF has to skid row. You would be more than generous to say is might be gentrifying. I'm not sure but I would guess Dennis' hotel was more in the Tenderloin than in Union Square.

Now what I had in mind is Becks Motor Lodge. It is on Upper Market, just a few blocks from the Castro. Last I checked it was going for around $110/NT. It's a motel. Not a hotel. Very clean. Nothing Fancy. Good neighborhood. Very few amenities. The location is ideal because it's near by when all you need to do is put your feet up and rest. The Market St. Trolley stops right there (the trolley takes you down to the Ferry Building, at the foot of Market St. via Union Square and the Cable Cars.)Here is Frommer's take on the Beck.

And about the food, well, THe Hong Kong Cafe is across the street and around the corner on Church St and it is REALLY GOOD and CHEAP. A little further down the block is Just Desserts, great place for Continenal breakfasts. Although there is no Mickey D's nearby, there are some outstanding Tacquerias, also on Church St. For those who want to buy there food, there is a Safeway also just a couple of blocks away. Don't let Zagat scare you away.

There are some good airfares into Oakland which is located on BART (Bay Area Rapid Transit) and goes right into SF. But I wouldn't recommend a hotel on that side of the Bay. It's just too far

I also like Dennis' idea about a 3 or 4 day cruise with additional nights added on like San Diego. He's right about the economics. At a $100+/night, including food, it's hard to beat. If we want to have our own gatherings or round-tables etc we can do it right on the boat, wearing our thongs. And they are fun (gamboling, floor shows etc.) San Diego has been nominated and it's a beautiful city.

Now what I had in mind is Becks Motor Lodge. It is on Upper Market, just a few blocks from the Castro. Last I checked it was going for around $110/NT. It's a motel. Not a hotel. Very clean. Nothing Fancy. Good neighborhood. Very few amenities. The location is ideal because it's near by when all you need to do is put your feet up and rest. The Market St. Trolley stops right there (the trolley takes you down to the Ferry Building, at the foot of Market St. via Union Square and the Cable Cars.)Here is Frommer's take on the Beck.

Beck's Motor Lodge is a cruisy, sex-heavy motel which on weekends is trafficked heavily by drunk people and tweakers. Prolly not the best place... especially since a cheap room at that MOTEL costs $185 on a regular weekend. (don't ask me how I know this, I'll have to plead the 5th) No better is the Tweaker Zoo (Travelodge) just down the block. Truth be told, there are many gay B&B's that would be accommodating, and not to mention several cheaper hotels south of market.

One question that I ask of those who went to Montreal was did you utilize the many services that the hotel supplied. If not, would you be willing to sacrifice having those amenities available to you (room service, on site restaurant, etc) for a value priced hotel?

Dennis, Good question. Thom and I used room service two or three times. We enjoyed relaxing in the pool. We had a wonderful lunch in the hotel bar with spicey Bloody Marys. And we rented one of the small ballrooms at the hotel for our wedding.

The availability of the ball room is something that we would never have sacrificed. The other amenities were extra icing on the cake.

Thanks for your sage advice. Looking forward to working with you on AMG 07.

I have been to San Francisco many times for work, and while I have gotten some good prices on hotels here and there, it is generally more expensive.

I am not one to use a lot of amenities at a full service hotel, however, I MUST have a/c and housekeeping. NOT an option as far as I'm concerned. I don't need an onsite restaurant, room service, spa, gym, blah, blah, blah, but if I see bugs in a hotel that costs more the $50/night....we have an issue. I have seen the Beck, and....um....EW!!! Not trying to be a princess, but I thought it was pretty nasty looking walking by it - and that wasn't on a weekend.

We didn't use any of the amenities in the Montreal Hotel (except for daily housekeeping)....we ate out for all meals, went and looked at the pool but didn't go in, and didn't eat at the hotel restaurant. And while I can see some sacrifices in quality for value....I can't see too much of a downgrade in quality. My main beef is cleanliness, no rats, no roaches, bed looks clean and not filled with stains, no water stains on ceilings, wallpaper falling down, room is updated/modernized, the entire place doesn't reek of smoke, semen and sweat, you don't have to turn on the tv with pliers.

The other factor is location (not so much in terms of how close the hotel is to local attractions, though that would be nice, but more so are there decent places to eat in the area, is it a safe area to be in at night, are cabs/transportation options readily available 24 hours a day, etc.).

We didn't use any of the amenities in the Montreal Hotel (except for daily housekeeping)....we ate out for all meals, went and looked at the pool but didn't go in, and didn't eat at the hotel restaurant. And while I can see some sacrifices in quality for value....I can't see too much of a downgrade in quality. My main beef is cleanliness, no rats, no roaches, bed looks clean and not filled with stains, no water stains on ceilings, wallpaper falling down, room is updated/modernized, the entire place doesn't reek of smoke, semen and sweat, you don't have to turn on the tv with pliers.

The other factor is location (not so much in terms of how close the hotel is to local attractions, though that would be nice, but more so are there decent places to eat in the area, is it a safe area to be in at night, are cabs/transportation options readily available 24 hours a day, etc.).

Ditto to what Cliff said. The only thing I would add, is that if Jan and Mark are coming, we'll need a hotel with security guards. You know how out of control those two can get!

Good location. Union Square is 1 city block square with Macys, Hyatt Regency, the NIKE store, and the Disney store holding down the 4 corners. Lots of boutiques and restaurants. It's a downtown location vs. a neighborhood location. Good access.

The are plenty of B&B's. The problem is, depending on how many people come, if we could all stay at the same place. There is limited space.

Also, my own experience with B&B's is that I basically am not attracted to what they push as their raison de etre; just like home. If I wanted to be at home, I would have stayed at home. For example, some of our people might want to stay out late, very late. One time I was chastised for coming "home" too late by the owner. That was the last time I ever stayed at one.

A cruise and San Diego sound pretty wonderful.You can count on the weather being great in San Diego, and I really like the casual lifestyle. It feels like vacation when I'm there.You definitely get more bang-for-the-buck in San Diego (compared to SFO).

The are plenty of B&B's. The problem is, depending on how many people come, if we could all stay at the same place. There is limited space.

I know that there's one across the street from me that touts rooms for $59.00 a night. Though the one on the corner seems to house a great many transexual hookers, and seems to be full.

I live in the Trannyloin - right at the cusp of the tenderloin and nob hill - where the transexual hookers hang out. Sometimes they chase each other up and down Post Street, weilding high-heeled shoes as weapons - and yelling obscenities at each other until the wee-hours of the night.

I know that there's one across the street from me that touts rooms for $59.00 a night. Though the one on the corner seems to house a great many transexual hookers, and seems to be full.

I live in the Trannyloin - right at the cusp of the tenderloin and nob hill - where the transexual hookers hang out. Sometimes they chase each other up and down Post Street, weilding high-heeled shoes as weapons - and yelling obscenities at each other until the wee-hours of the night.

But I digress... it's really a lovely neighborhood.

-joseph

Well, now, that sounds absolutely charming. lol

I bet it's entertaining, if nothing else. A sight to behold, I'm sure.

I know that there's one across the street from me that touts rooms for $59.00 a night. Though the one on the corner seems to house a great many transexual hookers, and seems to be full.

I live in the Trannyloin - right at the cusp of the tenderloin and nob hill - where the transexual hookers hang out. Sometimes they chase each other up and down Post Street, weilding high-heeled shoes as weapons - and yelling obscenities at each other until the wee-hours of the night.

But I digress... it's really a lovely neighborhood.

-joseph

Wherever this is lets go here, SF no doubt....Maybe some of us could pick up a new profession, god I say i want to be a stripper sometimes, but a transsexual hooker, that’s wild!