New Labour never give up. Even out of government, they are still looking for groups of individuals who, they believe, are just salivating at the prospect of the chance to carry a shiny new ID card.
The latest group lucky enough to enter their sights just happens to be the transgendered. The Identity Documents Bill, which is …

COMMENTS

Total fail!

The proposal fails on many counts.

Not only the 'outing' but also because post transition transsexual people can get their passports and driving licences changed anyway without having to have a Gender Recognition Certificate. All they need is the psychiatrist's letter and current documentation (such as birth certificate etc). So they don't need the ID card.

Now if she meant trans gendered people who vary their gender on a day to day basis they couldn't have an ID card in their alternative gender anyway.

So this proposal was based upon stupidity, ignorance and desperation. Fairly typical of that lot.

Slight Amendment

Sorry I thought I needed to correct the above, transgendered people can not get a new (corrected) birth certificate without the Gender Recognition Certificate, but you are correct that they can change passport and driving licensee, they need a letter from the psychiatrist's letter and either a statetory Declaration or Deed Poll of change of mane.

Which would mean they would be fully 'out' anyway. As part of the treatment they have to live 2 years in their new gender, before surgery or getting theur GRC, so would only have one ID, so the whole thing is a NON ISSUE!

"but the removal of gender identity from any documents unless it was absolutely necessary."

So?

That's sort of the point of the suggestion; that it's mostly superfluous information.

(Anyway, in the cases where name and photo indicate gender, that rather suggests the carrier doesn't *mind* them indicating gender. In cases where the carrier would rather they didn't, the carrier is likely to ensure that...)

Re: evidence-based policy on the part of the Coalition.

A simpler solution

Don't specify gender on identity documents. It's a dodgy concept in any case, thanks to chromosomal abnormalities, etc, etc, and the form of a person's external genitalia is of very little practical use in checking people's identities as people don't (yet) routinely show their genitalia at passport controls and when stopped by the police. Also, the information content is just one bit.

(On the other hand, a person's apparent sex is something that even the dopiest witness can occasionally remember.)

Wrong way round

Well, she has a point, in a twisted nulabour sort of way

For a modern ID system to be useful it must be able to cope with everything we throw at it, instead of trying to mold us in its ideal image. However, that's far more demanding than a couple clumsy amendments could hope to cope with. So, it is doomed to fail.

That even before remembering all the nasty little details that made us reject the whole thing out of hand in the first place. But, verily, what IS she doing? Does she have some ID card fetish addiction that compels her to trotting it out regularly?

Do you have to pay twice?

If it's not hard to get 2 cards, I'd be prepared to do a BOGOF just for the "fun" factor of having 2 different cards.

Some ideas for 2 ID cards :

Instead of sneaking into <opposite gender>'s changing rooms for a thrill, just walk in brazenly waving the relevant ID card.

Skipping the long line for the toilets and using the other gender's.

If you had someone who looked kind of like you (to play the other half in the ceremony), you could probably marry yourself. Maybe your female counterpart could marry someone and change their name, while your male part stays unchanged. You might even find you didn't need to actually marry to change your name, just tick a box on a form somewhere, maybe it would need you both to sign.

Evidence based policy

"The amendment was withdrawn, with Hillier grumbling aloud about the lack of consultation and an evidence-based policy on the part of the Coalition."

This means that Hillier was complaing about the fact the coalition have an evidence-based policy right? We all know what Labours view on evidence is - they fully support the evidence based approach to government as long as they are allowed to commission the evidence supporting their policy and dismess any evidence that doesn't...

Heh

Umm...

You don't transition your gender; you transition your sex. Hence trans-sexual. It is the sex (physical) that is transitioned in order to bring it in to line with the gender (mental)

The person is gender "euphoric," not gender, "dysphoric," because they are that convinced about their own gender that the sex has to be changed to be brought in to line.

To imply that a transsexual person is gender dysphoric is tantamount to saying they are not quite right in the grey matter department (you can easily disprove that ... just take one look at me! Er... um... on second thoughts...)

Kindly slap the politically correct people around the face with a wet haddock.

Security?

So because they can't find a way to issue ID that can handle people whose sex is in a transitional state, they propose issuing a bunch of cards to cover all the options? And these are supposed to be able to indentify their holders for security purposes?!

"'Ere you, Mr. Mightbe Terrorist, I need to see some ID"

"Here you are, officer"

"Are you having me on, this is for a woman"

"Oh, sorry officer. try this one instead. Or this one, or maybe this one?"

Can you fail harder?

Her amendemnt was fail in many ways. Keep an ID system that is only needed for a tiny minority of trans people --- those living dual role. So, that it is a guaranteed outing of them as they'd be the only ones with an ID card. For clarification I do know someone living dual role and has got an ID card. Yes, it meant paying twice, and she did have to get a medical report stating her dual role status.

Even with such dual ID cards only one can be used to permit travel to the EU and that is the one that matches her passport. Another major fail of the idea.

And as for the complaints about "evidence-based" policy, maybe that's only because the evidence doesn't support her blinkered view of the world?

@"Huppert instantly spotted the logic failure at the heart of Hillier’s proposal"

More to the point, why the hell didn't Meg Hillier spot the very obvious flaw in her own logic!

Also it shows they try to force these things through into law without thinking logically about what they set out to do. So much for judgment yet these people want to run the country!!!

Instead of everyone carrying ID cards, perhaps we should force only politicians to carry the ID cards, so then we can identify and avoid these self important arrogant ignorant people. Plus make it law that they carry ID cards around their necks along with a cow bell. :)

Eh?

Is Meg Hillier trying to get a job working for SCO's legal team? I understand some people have problems coming to terms with change, but she needs to be taken to one side and have someone explain to her that it's over. The ID Document bills isn't law yet but the cards for UK nationals are no longer being issued so it's not possible to get one anyway. Better to explicitly kill it off like this rather than discover too late that the system is unworkable and have it gradually fall out of use.

Maybe...

Privacy

Perhaps no-one needs to know our gender AT ALL? ever?

When women were not allowed to vote there was some point, albeight a nasty one, in recording at birth what one's gender was. But in these days of equality, then it should surely be a question one is not allowed to ask, either in the passport office or the job interview.

"What shape toilet did you use this morning?" - Mind your own business!

"How did you vote at the last election?" - Mind your own business

"How do you get your jollies when the lights are out?" - Mind your own business