I actually just emailed Mr. Shuker asking him if he could provide me with links or excerpts from the articles that are used as sources for the
Encyclopedia article in which he names these two other mystery sources. Not sure if that email address is active, if he checks it often, or if he'll
find my request a bit presumptuous and not respond, but hell, figured it was worth a shot. I'll see what happens.

The email:
Hello Mr. Shuker. Before I start I would just like to say I have a huge amount of respect for you and your research. I've read some of your work
and always have been quite impressed with your level-headed-ness and your ability to not jump to conclusions, a trait which many Fortean researches, I
find, lack. But enough brown-nosing. On to my question.

In the entry on De Loys's Ape in the "Encyclopedia of Cryptozoology: A Global Guide" compiled by Michael Newton, it mentions that in the 1990's
you were researching the stories circulating about a second photo of De Loy's Ape that appeared in an unnamed book. A excerpt from one of your
articles in which you discuses this second photo with Susan Ford, Professor of Anthropology, Southern Illinois University is provided. It also
mentions that you had two other sources who claimed to remember seeing this photo. I was wondering if it were possible for you to link me to the
articles were these sources were named, as I have been unable to find the articles that are mentioned as sources for the encyclopedia entry. They
are: "Alien Zoo" Fortean Times 134( June 2000), "Monkeying Around With Memories" Strange Magazine No. 20(December 1998) and "Another Missing
Photo?"(Source not given except your name). If links to the actual articles are not possible, excerpts from said articles where these sources are
mentioned would also be helpful. Thank you in advance.

I have to agree there was a photo on the net back in the wee early days of the net and I do recall seeing it. But back then you could also download
the entire set of schematics to build a nuclear bomb, shelter and how to enrich the plutonium for the bomb with a big warning of "Don't do this at
home you'll die for sure". Obviously a lot has changed sense govt.'s started playing on the net.

I remember those days, and I spent them looking for that Mokele-Mbembe video! The fact that it didn't turn up even then -- or since then -- is a
major reason that I'm so doubtful that it even existed (as I mentioned in another thread).

As longtime fan of saurapod dinosaurs, the story has always been appealing. If a large dinosaur were going to survive (in a relatively familiar
form, and not by evolving into something unrecognizable as a dinosaur) then Mokele-Mbembe seems to meet the basic requirements of being in a very
secluded location, and of shedding considerable body mass. It's also easy to see how convergent evolution could yield something very similar (but
yet, unrelated) to these saurapods.

But like I said, I'm not an optimist. Hope you guys have better luck than I do.

I think that when you're dealing with "Lost Evidence" you also have to keep the paranoia factor in mind (and this goes for all alternative
subjects, not just Cryptozoology).

Nikola Tesla's "Death Ray" proposal is a prime example. By all indications, it's still Classified, but it leaked out circa 1984 and was published
following one of the Tesla Symposium's that used to take place. Every major Tesla researcher has a copy of it, and you can find a couple of the
diagrams on the web, but you can't find the entire proposal posted anywhere. This one famous document, that everybody and there mother seems to have
a copy of, hasn't made it onto the web. Because people are too paranoid to post it.

Eventually it can become a feedback loop of sorts, where people who have the evidence see that it's NOT on the web, and think "hell, everything is
on the web, so if this isn't then there must be a reason...if I post this then my happy butt will land in Gitmo!!!"

So I guess when this happens, the key is to be persistent and build relationships with the small group of people who have (or claim to have) the
evidence.

I have an alternative theory (well more of an idea) about some of these crypto memories/stories.

I have been studying up a lot lately on ATS and other sources about parallel universes and the like. I think it's very possible that life takes many
branches and a lot of them are simple two-way (1s and 0s, left turn/right turn, clockwise/counter-clockwise etc). Heck even at the atomic level this
could apply. We make a yes/no decision and lead life down a different path.

I also think that it's possible - through our travels in the murk that is time - to mix a bit of one universe with another. What if in universe A a
thunderbird is a common predator but in universe B a bacteria was introduced via, say, man that targets only the thunderbird and makes it extinct.

If the universes are some how linked it's possible we might have vague "memories" of such a creature. This theory also helps explain deja vu and a
host of other similar phenomena. One of these days I'll compile all my research into a thread. Thanks Gem for posting some thought-provoking ideas
here.

Originally posted by [davinci]
I think that many maybe close to the truth about why these images have disappeared. I don't believe that it is a conspiracy to hide the evidence of a
particular story, I would say that it is more a general desire to hide anything that raises questions outside of the norm. I have always been
fascinated by these standouts and have been following the alternative history advocates for years. The one thing that always stands out is
coverups.

The most recent is the staggeringly ancient forest in Austrailia. Several years ago a hiker discovered in the remote outback that there was a Jurassic
"forest" still happily growing in near total isolation.

With the amount of permafrost melting and all those microbes, bacteria and god only knows what else bubbling up to the surface. For the first time in
millions of years would it be of any wonder that we are amazed to see thing from the past?

Dinosaurs a plenty and those were rather recent on the time line what lies beneath the ice is only to be guessed at.

I am sure we shall see in years to come amany historial mysteries and extinct species resurfacing into the light of the modern day.

I feel the problem with such an event will be our own undoing, can we deal with the germs and diseases that effected the species of the past?

So yes we can sit in wonder at the amazing variety of life long lost and ponder our own existance in this world, however is the past able to live
along side us here in the present day?

I have a lady friend who says she was picked up by one of these Thunderbirds when she was a little girl. Her sister ran and grabbed her as the bird
was flying off and fortunately for her the bird only got her hair and as it was still going up with the weight of both girls her hair pulled out and
they fell..

Farmers gathered to hunt it down and found its nest in, "several" trees at the top of a hill and shot it. The then took the bird to Wilmington
college in Ohio.

The bird ended up, "disappearing" from the college and she told me the FBI came and told them that the incident never occurred and not to talk about
it or they would come and take them somewhere.

The college administrator had long passed but I knew the son of the college administrator at the time of the incident.. Interested in her story, I
went to his house and talked with the son and his mother about the bird and they lit up about the subject and told me that the event did in fact
occur..

I too have seen one of these birds from a great distance. I was riding around on a bicycle and I saw what I thought to be a huge kite flying from a
schoolyard about a mile away. Then It flapped its wings and I knew it was not a kite!

I then thought it was an optical illusion because it appeared to be at the height of one small cloud in the sky. but then it flew right back into the
little cloud and though I followed the cloud the bird never came back out of it.

The clouds were allmost non-existent; just 2 or three small clouds that were very high that day.

What really strikes me is the intelligence of the creature understanding to use the clouds as a cloak! The cloud was very small; about 5 football
fields square like. It was really using it to conceal itself from the evil human race!

That makes me believe there is a lot more of them doing the same. It looked like this one was hoping to find another bigger cloud but there were none
so it went back into the small one it came out of. The cloud was not much bigger than the bird as in 20 of them might be able to stay in it.

In description it was not a vulture or a pterodactyl. It was more of what appeared to be in color of a dove or some hawks and it was majestic to say
the least. I believe it was the size of a cessna or better..

Edit to add: About the most a bird can pick up and fly with is about 1/10th to 1/8th of its weight; so that would mean that the bird had to weigh at
least 640 pounds to pick up two 40 pound girls!!

No I have no idea what the issue number was.
My brother had a HUGE stack of Argosy issues that my uncle had given him. This was about the mid to late sixties I think.
Whats weird is I remember the Thunderbird pic and another issue with Bigfoot.
The Bigfoot one I have been able to find.
But not the Thunderbird.

The problem of photoshopping and digital manipulation is quite a large one. It provides an easy way to debunk something that is in fact real. It
also provides an easy way to fake something that is not real. It offers confusion. There is a silver lining, as I see it; It acts as a stimulus to
get individuals to search within, and they can then realize the artificial elements within that they thought were "real."

So i think we can can say ufo's are not Alien in origin but ourselves from the future visiting the past,only someone deliberately or accidentally
brought with them one of these extinct birds into the 19th century were it escaped as was shot by some cowboys.The photo has since disappeared as
those who knew about this photo knew they had to get rid of the evidence that this bird ever existed so we wouldn't be able to discover the bird
actually did exist and after figuring out it is not from our time realize it must have come through a time portal. This could alter the entire
future,not good

So really that 2nd photo listed the link you gave, or the top photo on slayers post, still seems totally genuine to me. I just cannot find anything
wrong with it.

I'm not sure about the television promo, but there is something about that photo that is just not right.

It has to do with the guy in front with his foot on the "monster's" head. His hat is just not right. During that time period, any soldier wearing
a full brim hat would have one side folded up against the crown. That way when he was marching, he could rest his rifle on his shoulder and not knock
his hat off with the rifle.

To me it looks like it was faked by someone without enough knowledge to get it right.

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