SoCalSeahawk wrote:Before yesterday, the Seahawks were 1-6 in the past seven games that Carey's crew had officiated. If Carey's crew had their way it would now be 1-7. This inludes the '08 - '12 reg seasons. That's one win in five years with this joker's crew...until yesterday.

The Bears game yesterday, enough said. Possibly the most one sided officiated regular season game I've ever watched. One personal foul against SEA.

His crew did the Rams game in week 4. Three personal fouls against SEA. I remember two ticky-tack personal fouls being called on Giacomini in that game. And it seems like another ticky-tack personal foul on Clemons after an interception.

2011, week 7 at Celveland (the Marshawn back spasm game). The "Game Winning" punt return for a touchdown by Leon Washington that was negated by a phantom block in the back call during the return. Two personal fouls called agianst SEA. The one when Kam sacked the QB on a picture perfect form tackle but was called for the phantom "blow to the head". Also in that game, Red Bryant was ejected.

2010, week 11 at New Orleans. Three personal fouls called aginst the Seahawks. A called INT that Seattle had to challenge to get reversed. On a key drive we stop NO on 3rd down...but the drive continues after a roughing the passer call. Saints go on to score a touchdown.

Finding data on the '09 and '08 games is tough, and I do actually have a life.

In the games mentioned above, not one single personal foul was called on Seattle's opponents.

Mike Carey and his wife own a company called Seirus Innovation. One of their biggest competitors is a company called K2 Sports. K2 Sports is based in Seattle. (Just sayin')

Most of my research was derived from CBS Sportsline and done with a beer in hand.

Very interesting and not surprising.

Good post bro.

Long you live and high you fly, and smiles you’ll give and tears you’ll cry, and all you touch and all you see Is all your life will ever be

hawksfan515 wrote:Stop whining. We commit tons of penalties. I agreed with (mainly) all of them. All refs make bad calls, and we won the game. I'll take it.

Dude, stop baiting people. Just because you are in a bad mood it doesn't mean you need to come on here and purposefully piss people off by calling them whiners. It's obvious he was doing no such thing but you couldn't wait to throw that out there and start pissing people off.

Absolutely unneccessary and creates a negative atmosphere on here. Are you counting how many responses you've elicited?

OK I basically admitted defeat above. Now that I think about it that post was pretty harsh, the guy did basically say he just rambled around and saw those stats.

So I'm done. You just accused me of trying to start up a fight, yet you post trying to start a fight again? C'mon... I might have been guilty at first, but now let's just call it good.

zhawk wrote:its not that we don't make penalties, i'm just amazed how other teams never seem to make any! just sayin.

If you watch the games and come back with some real proof, I will believe you... Didn't mean for this to come off overly rude BTW.

I watched the New Orleans game and quite honestly we deserved all those personal fouls against us. The Raheem Brock roughing the passer call was just frustrating.

The Browns game, the Kam Chancellor sack penalty was odd. He placed his helmet on McCoy's back, which is not allowed. Blame the bogus rule, IMO. And the phantom block in the back looked very real in real time, as the announcers noted. Blame Kennard Cox for being a dumbass as Leon had already passed him.

Who gives a damn if you need real proof.... it was blatant poor officiating and was noticed by every other Seahawks fan. That you fail to acknowledge is irrelevant.

zhawk wrote:its not that we don't make penalties, i'm just amazed how other teams never seem to make any! just sayin.

If you watch the games and come back with some real proof, I will believe you... Didn't mean for this to come off overly rude BTW.

I watched the New Orleans game and quite honestly we deserved all those personal fouls against us. The Raheem Brock roughing the passer call was just frustrating.

The Browns game, the Kam Chancellor sack penalty was odd. He placed his helmet on McCoy's back, which is not allowed. Blame the bogus rule, IMO. And the phantom block in the back looked very real in real time, as the announcers noted. Blame Kennard Cox for being a dumbass as Leon had already passed him.

Who gives a damn if you need real proof.... it was blatant poor officiating and was noticed by every other Seahawks fan. That you fail to acknowledge is irrelevant.

You can't call everything on Mike Carey - look at the muffed punt recovery, was it Carey who awarded possession to the Bears before anyone had even put their hands on the ball? Unless Carey is going into the referee's locker room before the game and saying "right look guys, I want you to call everything Chicago's way", there's no way I can say he's biased.I'd like to know how many of those games were IN Seattle though, I reckon it may be a case of a referee and team who are too afraid to go against the home team. Looking at those 8 games, the ones you've mentioned in the post, AT Rams, AT Chicago, AT Cleveland, AT New Orleans, and of course last week AT Miami. That seems far more likely that a referee bias that spreads through his entire team.

I think it's mostly just Carey and his crew being horrible. I don't see bias. He's a horrible referee, he fancies himself a showman with his dramatic penalty reveals, and he doesn't have a damn clue how to do the job. Unfortunately we've come out on the wrong end of a disproportionate number of his bad calls, but even nine games is a pretty small sample size to try to analyze for a meaningful conclusion.

He should be fired and blacklisted from all employment in civilized society, but I don't think he's out to get us specifically by any means.

Intentional bias or not, there appears to be a bit of a pattern here. Anyone ever think the possible dislike of the Seahawks is subconcious on his part, whatever the reason? And yeah, the muffed punt wasn't on him but a member of the crew. Sunday's game was the worst officiated game I've seen the Seahawks involved in since SBXL*. As mentioned previously on this thread, all the momentum changing/killing calls seemd to go against the Hawks just like XL*

Look I said Sunday on the gameday forum and I'll say it here.....I generally don't complain too hard about officiating and at times I get pretty weary of some Seahawks' fans seemingly endless complaints about the referees. However, when it's as blatantly one-sided for whatever the reason as the Chicago game was, it's reasonable to be pissed about it.

The NFL has had an officiating problem for years as evidenced by the Hawks game vs. the Ravens a number of years back, the tuck rule game (and quite a number of other screw jobs the Raiders have taken), XL*, the Steelers/Colts game that same post season, etc., etc., etc..... Shark had a great post on the gameday forum about how he wished Goodall would've held fast on the labor dispute with the refs while putting in place a program to train younger and much more athletic refs to permanently take their place. As much as we Hawks' fans loved the result of the Green Bay game, any chance of something like Shark mentioned being implimented went out the window when that game was concluded the way it was, right or wrong.

Last edited by hawksfansinceday1 on Tue Dec 04, 2012 8:21 am, edited 1 time in total.

themunn wrote:You can't call everything on Mike Carey - look at the muffed punt recovery, was it Carey who awarded possession to the Bears before anyone had even put their hands on the ball? Unless Carey is going into the referee's locker room before the game and saying "right look guys, I want you to call everything Chicago's way", there's no way I can say he's biased..

This is an extremely good point. A conspiracy among all of the crew seems highly unlikely. Of course the disproportionally could be a manifestation of chance.

hawksfansinceday1 wrote:Intentional bias or not, there appears to be a bit of a pattern here. Anyone ever think the possible dislike of the Seahawks subconcious on his part, whatever the reason? And yeah, the muffed punt wasn't on him but a member of the crew. Sunday's game was the worst officiated game I've seen the Seahawks involved in since SBXL*. As mentioned previously on this thread, all the momentum changing/killing calls seemd to go against the Hawks just like XL*

Look I said Sunday on the gameday forum and I'll say it here.....I generally don't complain too hard about officiating and at times I get pretty weary of some Seahawks' fans seemingly endless complaints about the referees. However, when it's as blatantly one-sided for whatever the reason as the Chicago game was, it's reasonable to be pissed about it.

The NFL has had an officiating problem for years as evidenced by the Hawks game vs. the Ravens a number of years back, the tuck rule game (and quite a number of other screw jobs the Raiders have taken), XL*, the Steelers/Colts game that same post season, etc., etc., etc..... Shark had a great post on the gameday forum about how he wished Goodall would've held fast on the labor dispute with the refs while putting in place a program to train younger and much more athletic refs to permanently take their place. As much as we Hawks' fans loved the result of the Green Bay game, any chance of something like Shark mentioned being implimented went out the window when that game was concluded the way it was, right or wrong.

Whether you think he is bias or not, would you want him officiating a playoff game for us? I know I wouldn't.

The problem I have with him and his crew is that I fully expect a screw job of officiating every time he calls a game for us and unfortunately he has never not delivered. It is a pattern when it is predictable and he is the most predictable of any crew that calls our games.

Call it whatever you want but the stats and game records don't lie, even if you don't trust your eye's. IMO there is just to much evidence to support that something smells real bad about him calling Seahawks games.

hawksfansinceday1 wrote:Intentional bias or not, there appears to be a bit of a pattern here. Anyone ever think the possible dislike of the Seahawks subconcious on his part, whatever the reason? And yeah, the muffed punt wasn't on him but a member of the crew. Sunday's game was the worst officiated game I've seen the Seahawks involved in since SBXL*. As mentioned previously on this thread, all the momentum changing/killing calls seemd to go against the Hawks just like XL*

Look I said Sunday on the gameday forum and I'll say it here.....I generally don't complain too hard about officiating and at times I get pretty weary of some Seahawks' fans seemingly endless complaints about the referees. However, when it's as blatantly one-sided for whatever the reason as the Chicago game was, it's reasonable to be pissed about it.

The NFL has had an officiating problem for years as evidenced by the Hawks game vs. the Ravens a number of years back, the tuck rule game (and quite a number of other screw jobs the Raiders have taken), XL*, the Steelers/Colts game that same post season, etc., etc., etc..... Shark had a great post on the gameday forum about how he wished Goodall would've held fast on the labor dispute with the refs while putting in place a program to train younger and much more athletic refs to permanently take their place. As much as we Hawks' fans loved the result of the Green Bay game, any chance of something like Shark mentioned being implimented went out the window when that game was concluded the way it was, right or wrong.

Well said. There is bias, whether intentional or not, with Carey's crew in particular. The reason(s) may never be known, or we could have a league-wide exposure like we saw in basketball a number of years ago. Who knows?

The muffed punt in particular was troubling. Any time there is a turnover, the little black beanie gets thrown, they let the pile sort it out, and then they award possession. This time, possession had already been called before I even had the chance to make an exclamation about it. When you jump out of your seat as a fan and say, "fumb... what? How is it Chicago's ball already?" you know they're not doing it right. Was the black beanie even thrown on that play? Those of you who have the game recorded, can you say for sure?

"The ultimate number is W's, and that’s what matters in Santa Clara. As such, Jed York does not own the 49ers; Russell Wilson does." - Paul Gutierrez

I don't believe in a conspiracy, but I do think that refs get certain preconceptions about which team is supposed to win, or which one commits more penalties and it affects their decisions during a game. I've/We've seen it at all levels, and I think it happened to the Hawks yesterday. We are a poor road team, the Bears were on fire to start the year and we were coming into Soldier Field and not supposed to win. I think that kind of thing makes a difference, whether the ref knows it or not.

SalishHawkFan wrote:If it were simply him calling a bad game, then like the replacement refs, you'd see bad calls going both ways. In 8 games with Seattle, all the bad calls have gone ONE way - against Seattle. That's not bad officiating, that's BIAS.

Prove it.........

EDIT: And by prove it, I mean provide at least 3 instances you can find "bias" in Carey's officiating.

I get that he sucks. I agree with that. Didn't like the punt call. I don't think he's biased against the Hawks though.....

Prove oxygen exists. Prove the moon isn't made out of cheese. Prove you love your mom.

There's plenty of evidence presented in this thread. Doubt anybody could "prove it" whether it's true or not. You don't have to believe it if you don't want to.

Proof of Oxygen: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=njndpICUs8AProof the moon is not made of cheese: The crust of the Moon is composed mostly of oxygen, silicon, magnesium, iron, calcium, and aluminum. There are also trace elements like titanium, uranium, thorium, potassium and hydrogen. This is all determined by scientific analysis of samples from the moon.Proof of love: Love is an emotion, much like your opinion about the ref being bias. Proof of love would be like me asking you to prove that you "believe" that the refs were bias. The only "proof" available would be conjecture based off of your actions. Since I have never spoken of my mother, you must therefore conclude that with me saying that I do in fact love my mother, that I do. Unfortunately, me just saying it does not constitute proof.

The first two things you ask to be proven can in fact be proven because they are a physical reality of the world we live in. The idea of love is real and can be proven, but someone experiencing love can never be proven. It is unfortunately the same with someones bias. You can look back at the data available and interpret it as bias, but it can never be proven. Even if the refs came out and said they were bias, that in and of itself is not enough to prove bias. Before you freak out about that statement think about what would happen if in the future he came back and said he lied? Was it then actually proven that he was bias before?

Just to clarify some things, I'm not trying to start an issue. I just wanted to point out that the idea of asking someone to prove someone else's mental disposition is ludicrous. Whether you believe him to be bias or not is your opinion, which is not subject to right or wrong because it can not be proven one way or the other. Your opinion is shaped and adjusted based on facts presented to you in the course of your analysis and therefore also has merit in the conversation.

sturg78 wrote:I don't believe in an active plot by the refs to screw us, but he sure made it harder to keep my tinfoil hat off. Not all the calls were bad, but they sure were ill timed and ticky tack. Conversely, the bears got away with a lot of non-calls. It didn't help that he seemed really disappointed (as stated in the game day thread) with giving us that last TD.

sturg78 wrote:I don't believe in an active plot by the refs to screw us, but he sure made it harder to keep my tinfoil hat off. Not all the calls were bad, but they sure were ill timed and ticky tack. Conversely, the bears got away with a lot of non-calls. It didn't help that he seemed really disappointed (as stated in the game day thread) with giving us that last TD.

Some local sports writer mentioned that the NFL would not be looking at the Rice hit because he had converted from a WR to a runner once he secured the catch. Now I am sure if that was a running QB there might be an unnecessary roughness flag involved.

1. If you watch the live game angle...not all the endzone angle replays they showed...Lynch's left knee is on the ground, and clearly IMO.

2. On Bennett's deep drop in the second quarter Clemons was literally TACKLED by their right tackle, directly in front of Carey. The RT grabs Clemons by the front of the shoulder pads and in the horsecollar area in back and just flat out tackles him a split second before Clemons commits a violent crime on Cutler. Four times I watched that play because I could not believe Carey missed it.

3. On the muffed punt the referee, standing directly behind the play with a beautiful angle, signals Bears ball before ANY possession is established. The returner and Maragos dive for the ball and the referee instantly signals Bears ball despite the fact that on the replay it looks like Maragos has possession immediately.

"Carey was just doing his job. He was told to keep the game close due to the action in Vegas (line was Seahawks +3.5, I think), but he, personally, wanted the Bears to win. So he wanted to see the game end in a 1 2 or 3 point win for Chicago, but because Russell Wilson could not accept the Seahawks losing that game, Carey was forced to give the Hawks the game on the Rice TD (which gets the job done for Vegas and explains why Carey was so butthurt about calling the game for Seattle at the end)."

Just caught a clip of the Rice catch in the final drive with 30 seconds left and Pete is running onto the field towards the ref's signaling TO. I thought it seemed like he was making absolutely sure they didn't ignore him and let the clock run. This may not sound like Much but when you factor in these same officials missed him calling TO in the Rams game, on the trick FG that gave them 7 points and eventually cost us the game, I got more the feeling that he knows Carey is deliberately trying to screw the Seahawks and so he was making a public display so as they couldn't ignore him.

chawx wrote:"Carey was just doing his job. He was told to keep the game close due to the action in Vegas (line was Seahawks +3.5, I think), but he, personally, wanted the Bears to win. So he wanted to see the game end in a 1 2 or 3 point win for Chicago, but because Russell Wilson could not accept the Seahawks losing that game, Carey was forced to give the Hawks the game on the Rice TD (which gets the job done for Vegas and explains why Carey was so butthurt about calling the game for Seattle at the end)."

QFT

Discouraging the general populice from sports wagering is never a bad thing....but Vegas has absolutely no influence on the outcome of football games, college or pro. Now, that is not to say that some ahole rogue ref could'nt place a bet, then decide to steer the outcome to his favor. Doubtful but could happen, but the casinos do not participate in such shenanigans. A friend that would know such things assured me of this, then in the next breath told me to never bet on Baseball.

I think its time for the NFL to flush the toilet, and bring in people who for real closely watch and call a great game. I think its a general consensus that, among many refs, its ok to flag the piss out of the hawks. Dont know why. I've been watching the hawks forever and the refs have had their way with the hawks more than not. Whens the last time you said the refs called a good game?

Seahawk Sailor wrote:Those of you who have the game recorded, can you say for sure?

There wasn't a bean bag thrown from the game telecast nor the all-22 shots I looked at. Not sure why the ref was so quick to signal Bears ball. He must have been suffering jet lag.

That does it for me. What better proof of bias do you want? You throw the bean bag on a turnover. Then you determine possession. He signaled possession before the players even hit the ground, not even bothering with the bean bag. Why would he do that unless it didn't matter who actually had possession? He was going to call Bears' ball no matter what.

"The ultimate number is W's, and that’s what matters in Santa Clara. As such, Jed York does not own the 49ers; Russell Wilson does." - Paul Gutierrez

NJSeaHawk wrote:I mean sure we got some calls our way, but look at the calls that went against us...it just seems every time he refs we are always on the losing end.

We got a key non call in the game. If there was a conspiracy against the Seahawks by the officiating crew they would have called Baldwin for offense pass interference on a key first down in the game winning drive.

Just because one guy, the same guy that called the horse collar on Washington's tackle, doesn't show bias, it doesn't clear the others as such

Go watch the horse collar call and note how much explaining the official had to do to Carey before Carey would finally make the call. Carey did overturn another call by saying Wilson was out of the pocket. Do you believe he would have done that if it favored the Bears?

RichNhansom wrote:Go watch the horse collar call and note how much explaining the official had to do to Carey before Carey would finally make the call. Carey did overturn another call by saying Wilson was out of the pocket. Do you believe he would have done that if it favored the Bears?

I have no idea what he would have done. I don't think you do either. The most egregious call was the muffed punt...Carey didn't make that call.

RichNhansom wrote:Just because one guy, the same guy that called the horse collar on Washington's tackle, doesn't show bias, it doesn't clear the others as such

Go watch the horse collar call and note how much explaining the official had to do to Carey before Carey would finally make the call. Carey did overturn another call by saying Wilson was out of the pocket. Do you believe he would have done that if it favored the Bears?

But Wilson was out of the pocket, it was a good call. We can't get angry at good calls.

We don't know when the flag was thrown so it's not automatic that he was out of the pocket and the by itself is meaningless but when put into the context of that game it suddenly looks more suspicious whether it was the right call or not. The officials get away with these types of games because you can justify any call, as a mistake if need be but sometimes you have to look at the bigger picture, like Hasselbeck's chop block. Out of context it is just a bad call.

With this crew you don't even need to isolate one game, we have years of tape to analyse and the trend has been consistent through all of them. That becomes to much information to ignore or excuse away one call at a time.