Randy R wrote:Not that it matters...but most folks confuse sushi with sashimi.

The later being cured raw seafood.

Tim, you're right about "sushi" and "sashimi" being widely confused, although perhaps not in this gathering place of food lovers. Belaboring yet another fine point though, sashimi is, as you say, raw seafood but there's nothing "cured" about it - just raw seafood, generally sliced thinly, with condiments. Think fish-based sushi without the sushi rice.

alex metags wrote:The term sashimi does not necessarily refer to seafood. In restaurants in Japan you can also find tori sashi (raw chicken, have not tried it), basashi (raw horsemeat, which I have), etc.

Randy R wrote:Not that it matters...but most folks confuse sushi with sashimi.

The later being cured raw seafood.

Tim, you're right about "sushi" and "sashimi" being widely confused, although perhaps not in this gathering place of food lovers. Belaboring yet another fine point though, sashimi is, as you say, raw seafood but there's nothing "cured" about it - just raw seafood, generally sliced thinly, with condiments. Think fish-based sushi without the sushi rice.

Fair enough.

My meaning was that the seafood has been "treated" and isn't just a fish flopping around on your plate

Tim, not sure what you are driving at. The Wikipedia article you cite states: "Less common, but not unusual, sashimi ingredients are vegetarian items such as yuba (bean curd skin) and raw red meats, such as beef or horse." Which was my original point - like sushi, the term sashimi does not have to mean seafood. I don't disagree that seafood is the more common raw material, so to speak.

BTW sashi (as in tori sashi or basashi) is just a shorthand for sashimi -- such contractions are very common in Japanese. No difference in meaning. You will see the longer form, e.g. tori sashimi , on restaurant menus as well.

wikipedia: "In most English-speaking countries outside North America, an entrée is a smaller course that precedes the main course. In North America, this course is typically called the starter, with entrée used as a synonym for the main course."

So, how did one country get it wrong? Entrée, entrer, enter, entry, what part of "to go into" do they not get

Back to sushi. I think the word is associated with "sushi bar" and "sushi restaurant" and thus has become as wrongly percieved as entrée.

I have mostly given up on this. I no longer correct students who confuse entree with main course. I just continue to refer to the main course as the "main course."

Any country that thinks chicken fried steak smothered in what appears to be wall paper spackle and pronounces that source of excellent French Pinot Noir (Macon) to rhyme with 'bacon' - well what can you say.

In fact (aside from some notable exceptions) most of North America is a food wasteland in terms of appreciation of finer cuisine, although the exceptions can be...exceptional, and the foodie subculture (mostly developed sonce the 1960s) is alive and well, particularly on the coasts, I think.

I guess that depends on how you define "fine cuisine." I'm more directed toward just good food, and I find that there's just as much- if not more- in North America as any other continent. And regional cuisines that are just as interesting as anywhere else.

Any country that thinks chicken fried steak smothered in what appears to be wall paper spackle

Okay, so defend poutine.

Well, I guess that makes us even on the chicken fried steak (or is that steak fried chicken), but you are still responsible for scrapple (all the pig parts no one would normally eat, made into a grey gellatinous mass and then sliced and fried) and a world of hurt in what you guys call 'cheese food' - the stuff wrapped in plastic as well as the stuff that comes out of cans.

And then there is that fine product called Spam (makes one want to sp-uke) invented in the US - I actually saw stir-fried Spam in a restaurant down there once......

Tim, not sure what you are driving at. The Wikipedia article you cite states: "Less common, but not unusual, sashimi ingredients are vegetarian items such as yuba (bean curd skin) and raw red meats, such as beef or horse." Which was my original point - like sushi, the term sashimi does not have to mean seafood. I don't disagree that seafood is the more common raw material, so to speak.

BTW sashi (as in tori sashi or basashi) is just a shorthand for sashimi -- such contractions are very common in Japanese. No difference in meaning. You will see the longer form, e.g. tori sashimi , on restaurant menus as well.

cheers,al

Fair enough.

I was always under the impression that the root "sashi-" when applied to the suffix "mi" meant seafood. My Japanese friends have always referred to the common derivation and meaning of sashimi as such and I never disputed it.

Jenise wrote:Spam--in Hawaii, they even make sushi out of it. Hard to imagine, eh?

A friend asked me to come to a Tupperware party once (OK, not a close friend).

One of the supposed attractions was the food, including Spam fashioned into the form of giant shrimp, clams, ......

Rather suitable, if you think about it - plastic food, plastic containers.....

Bill,
You do realize how snobby and arrogant you sound here right? I mean do we have to get out the 2 x 4? We're talking about the continent that gave the world lobster and crabs and all the various ways of eating them. We're talkin' spare ribs with barbeque sauce. This may not be haute cuisine, but it's still great eats. I could go on, but I think others can do the job better than me.
Cheers!
James

James Roscoe wrote:Bill,You do realize how snobby and arrogant you sound here right? I mean do we have to get out the 2 x 4? We're talking about the continent that gave the world lobster and crabs and all the various ways of eating them. We're talkin' spare ribs with barbeque sauce. This may not be haute cuisine, but it's still great eats. I could go on, but I think others can do the job better than me.

James - have you ever been to France?
Ever been to Italy?
Ever been to Spain or Portugal?

Eating (and wine) are a daily pleasure, not a chore as it so often seems to be in North America, and it is given the attention appropriate to pleasure, with even the truck stops along the main highways producing better food than 80% of the restaurants on our continent.

The point is that almost all of the people CARE about food. We (meaning your average Canadian and American) don't, and it sure shows.

It isn't snobbish to tell the truth. It may be unpopular, judging by your response, but what should we do, pretend that it isn't so and that North Americans have a similar level of appreciation?

James Roscoe wrote:So you're serious! No I have never been to any of those places. I am not rich and cultured. I do like to eat. I thought you were kidding. Geez!

Yep, dead serious.

And being rich or cultured really has no bearing on caring about what you eat. 'Over there' it is inbred from when you are a baby - if all you can afford is a salad or a bowl of soup, they still want a GOOD salad or bowl of soup. Bricklayers and truck drivers demand well made tasty (if modest) food. Everyone is a food critic and they will talk about their food experiences ("This isn't as good as Luigi's pasta in the next town...") incessantly. It is simply a high priority.

Here, it just doesn't have the same priority, except among the 'foodies' like us (I assume that most or all of the posters here give a darn about what they drink and eat or they probably wouldn't be hanging around here).

Most people here 'fuel up' at fast food outlets, scarfing it down as fast as possible so they can get on with life. There, they take a couple of hours for lunch, all the stores close and they enjoy lunch - with a capital JOY.

If you really haven't had the chance to travel in Europe, I hope you do get the chance in future. But don't take my word for it, I'm sure other posters who have been there will pipe up and tell you if I am full of haggis or not.

I have had some of my very best meals in little out of the way places in Europe that have no signs, no menus, you just sit down and say "Please feed us"

I love scrapple...once in a while...I went to Reading Terminal Market in Philadelphia while there just so I could eat some breakfast with scrapple.

I am hard-pressed to say what I won't eat, and although I'd like to be as brave as Robin, and I think I come close, I don't think I'd eat brains if they were served...And I have more and more trouble with offal in general. I just tend to steer clear. I still love crisp sauteed liver and onions...

I've yet to try haggis (except for my very americanized version without sheep's pluck)....but my squeamish British husband, who can't even pick chicken off a bone? He eats and loves the real thing.

James Roscoe wrote:So you're serious! No I have never been to any of those places. I am not rich and cultured. I do like to eat. I thought you were kidding. Geez!

I have been (6-7 times a year to France/Italy/Austria/Belgium, on average), eaten and drunk extensively while there, and Bill is, with all due respect, full of it. Pacific Rim/California Fusion cuisine, Northwest, barbeque, deli, Tex Mex, Santa Fe, Cajun, Creole, simple Midwest, New England (seafood)... there's no end to great American food. My European visitors marvel at the sorts and quality of produce that we get and what we do with it. Our meats are (I'm told) some of the very finest in the world and (I'm told) far better than what one can find in Europe.

I'm not rich, but I've had my dose of culture. We've got nothing to be ashamed of, or at least no more than anywhere else.

Stuart Yaniger wrote:I have been (6-7 times a year to France/Italy/Austria/Belgium, on average), eaten and drunk extensively while there, and Bill is, with all due respect, full of it. Pacific Rim/California Fusion cuisine, Northwest, barbeque, deli, Tex Mex, Santa Fe, Cajun, Creole, simple Midwest, New England (seafood)... there's no end to great American food.

Stuart, you either failed to read what I said or are indulging in the time honoured dialectic ploy of not addressing what I actually said, but of setting up something else (usually easier to address or refute) that sort of looks like what I said and then tearing it down.

Go back and reread a bit more carefully, (or if you were indulging yourself - gottcha!). Of course there is a lot of great cusine in North America - some of the regional stuff is fascinating. I never said otherwise.

But compare any sample of, say, 10 people in an American or Canadian city and ask them what they ate for lunch. Now do it in France or Italy. Don't pick and choose professional people, get some secretaries, taxi drivers, mechanics, road workers... and I can almost guarantee you that the sample from Europe will not only have eaten better, but that they will also show much greater interest in what they ate and usually took much more time over it.

For us, on average, food just isn't the priority that it is over there. Do you disagree with that statement? If you can honestly say yes, I think you've been hanging out in the wrong places!

PS - if you ever get up to Vancouver, do investigate our foodie scene - some of the best on this continent and much more reasonably priced than in many American cities.

Bill Spohn wrote:In fact (aside from some notable exceptions) most of North America is a food wasteland in terms of appreciation of finer cuisine, although the exceptions can be...exceptional, and the foodie subculture (mostly developed sonce the 1960s) is alive and well, particularly on the coasts, I think.

Here is your original quote. It still sounds a tad arrogant to me. But you are technically correct in your response to Stuart. You did say Americans and Canadians are a bunch of uncultured apes when it comes to food. (Yes, I'm putting words in your mouth, but what you said is open to a great deal of negative interpretation.) I mistakenly assumed you were saying there was no American cuisine. This was my mistake. Your emphasis was on the word appreciation and I looked at the beginning of the sentence where you said North America was a food wasteland. I still think you're being a little harsh but I'm not going to argue as much on that point. I would certainly vehemently deny that North America is a food wasteland however.