Now, I'm not sure if it's a silencer glitch that's making them more powerful or something, but SMG"s are way over their power. In other Call of Duty's, you'll use a SMG for small maps, because these things can kill pretty quickly at a short range and work really well. If there was a long range gunfight, an SMG is a hitmark machine, especially with a silencer. Against an Assault Rifle from medium to long range, the Assault Rifle would win. SMG's have a high recoil, so range was never their thing.

Getting to my point, this isn't the case in Black Ops II. If you look at the killsfeed, 70-100% kills are SMG's on ALL maps. They can kill you through any object, range, and situation. SMG users would be sitting at sniper spots shooting people from across the map and getting kills. I've been outsniped by an SMG at Turbine from across the map while using an Assault Rifle or Sniper Rifle. I've been killed through rocks and buildings from an SMG. They can kill way too fast from any range. Also, they barely have any recoil. Take off the RDS, and you can kill anyone from any range in the matter of 1/3 of a clip. Also, even in CQC SMG's drop a player like a perfect shotgun shot. I'm not the only one who thinks this, a bunch of people on my friends list think the same thing. SMG's are becoming the OP gun that everyone uses in this game, Also, these things shoot pretty damn fast.

From my opinion of the nerfing it needs, keep them powerful at a short range. But they need more recoil (And grip can fix that), they need less damage by at least 1-2 shots, a damage reduction shooting through objects, and they NEED a damage reduction from a medium to long range!

Also, SMG's shoot pretty fast right? All SMG's in this game can drop people really fast, RoF is very high. So why did they put rapid fire on every SMG!? Even the Skorpion EVO, what the heck!? Players don't need the handicap to make someone drop faster than it already does! Lots of players have been complaining about Rapid fire since forever and then you do this, Treyarch!? Y U NO LISTEN!?

The more we make a situation aware, the more likely Treyarch will listen and do something about it.

People who are ONLY using SMG's because they're the "best guns" are obviously going to try to insult me.

SMGS can be set to burst using select fire, or any player can burst fire. Also i believe the Chicom is a burst fire SMG so getting killed at longer ranges is a possibility. I dont think SMG's need nerfs, but i think a bug that exists needs patching which may be related to the issue you stated. Also many guns have low recoil, this is done to balance the weapons, basically making any gun good.

SMGS can be set to burst using select fire, or any player can burst fire. Also i believe the Chicom is a burst fire SMG so getting killed at longer ranges is a possibility. I dont think SMG's need nerfs, but i think a bug that exists needs patching which may be related to the issue you stated. Also many guns have low recoil, this is done to balance the weapons, basically making any gun good.

Have you ever the a random smg with the laser sight attachment? No need to aim because hip firing is more accurate then aiming with that.

Every smg basicly dominates every other sort of gun in any situation. This is what it makes unbalanced and thats why it should be nerfed.

Agreed they are a pain at times and do seem to have a very long reach and a lot of punch at times but the long barrell attatchment and fmj can add to this.

But its the target finder scope that is doing my head in the most, i mean come on a blind one armed man can get shots on target with that with any weapon just point in the vague direction of an enemy player hold the trigger down full auto and the rounds magically find the target..

Despite your little disclaimer at the bottom of your post (which I imagind you felt very chuffed about), the fact of the matter is you just need to GET BETTER AT THIS GAME. I'm a firm user of the Type 25, have been since day 1 on this game, and I am not experiencing anywhere near the annoyances you describe. Sure, sometimes I die by the SMG but I also get killed by snipers, shotguns, drones etc etc.

Just like real life, very little in the game world is fair so you have to adapt to your shortcomings and create your own advantages.

As I Inb4'd, you've posted. Sir I'm 3rd prestdige, I have a 1.53 KD/R, 266 Score per minute, the three guns I use the most is the Victor K10, DSR 50, and AN-94. I use all gun types. I go positive in most of my matches, and if I go negative it's whatever. I've played the CoD franchise for 5 years. I can assure you I'm not bad, and you need to know the situation before you post.

Also, video games is NOT real life. We play for fun, not to feel like we're in reality.

SMGs are balanced. Their attachments even more. Rapid Fire increases hipfire spread and reduce their range: BY A LOT. Silencers also really reduce their range. If you think SMGs need even more bullets to kill, you don't know what you are saying: They are already 6 bullets to kill at long range. If you can't kill them, you are doing something wrong.

I gotta say though, their maps are overly small, giving these weapons a huge advantage.

SMGs are balanced. Their attachments even more. Rapid Fire increases hipfire spread and reduce their range: BY A LOT. Silencers also really reduce their range. If you think SMGs need even more bullets to kill, you don't know what you are saying: They are already 6 bullets to kill at long range. If you can't kill them, you are doing something wrong.

I gotta say though, their maps are overly small, giving these weapons a huge advantage.

TREYARCH, WE NEED OPEN MAPS! Thanks.

No, what you say is what it should be, there is absolutely no damage reduce in range and in impact through walls. This is what it makes overpowered. By the way, rapid fire doesnt decrease range, and the smg's already have a godly hip fire accuracy in other words, it doesnt doing anything against it.

SMG's are OP i agree, But then again there is next to no recoil on any guns, Use quickdraw and grip and your a killing machine,

I have got to the point in the game now where if you run around trying to play the objective (Somthing not many people do) you will die by some scrup using the MP7 silenced or vector silenced everytime,

If everyone on the opposite team use's an SMG we then get a few guardians with my friends and we place them in such a way that the enemy cant leave there spawn, slowly moving them forward untill they just spawn get cooked spawn without even moving,

If they want to exploit something in the game we are going to do it also, And we are going to win everytime.

If you have a problem with OP weapons just find a new way to combat them by completely spawn camping the whole time, Guardians work perfectly as you can place them on top of the enemy spawn point and then walk back to your spawn and they are forced to just get cooked eash time they spawn, Just sit there and laugh over the mic while they cry.

SMG's are OP i agree, But then again there is next to no recoil on any guns, Use quickdraw and grip and your a killing machine,

I have got to the point in the game now where if you run around trying to play the objective (Somthing not many people do) you will die by some scrup using the MP7 silenced or vector silenced everytime,

If everyone on the opposite team use's an SMG we then get a few guardians with my friends and we place them in such a way that the enemy cant leave there spawn, slowly moving them forward untill they just spawn get cooked spawn without even moving,

If they want to exploit something in the game we are going to do it also, And we are going to win everytime.

If you have a problem with OP weapons just find a new way to combat them by completely spawn camping the whole time, Guardians work perfectly as you can place them on top of the enemy spawn point and then walk back to your spawn and they are forced to just get cooked eash time they spawn, Just sit there and laugh over the mic while they cry.

Techniques like that shouldnt be used. If you need to use stuff like that to actually fight smg's then you know that they are overpowered.

Every gun should have a negative point, and in this game its not like that with smg's.

Assault rifles : Bad at close quarters thanks to the fire rate ( good treyarch, well made ) but better at range.

Smg's : Not bad in close quarters ( as it should be ) not bad in range thanks to low recoil and no damage reduce in range ( this is bad and makes it overpowered ) high fire rate and low recoil ( bad ) high fire rate good hip fire ( overpowered ) laser sight attachment to make the hip fire not spread ( really really overpowered ) silencer almost no damage reduce ( really bad )

You can easily see that the smg's dominate all the guns in every possible way. It shouldnt be like this.

I use SMGs on small maps and assault rifles on the larger maps. Thing is the way the maps are set up even the big ones have a lot of CQB situations where an SMG should excel. Its the nature of the way maps are made and the nature of urban fighting as well.

I play hardpoint mostly and im at or near the top of my team on a regular basis. I get killed plenty by assault rifles.

""Smg's : Not bad in close quarters ( as it should be ) not bad in range thanks to low recoil and no damage reduce in range ( this is bad and makes it overpowered ) high fire rate and low recoil ( bad ) high fire rate good hip fire ( overpowered ) laser sight attachment to make the hip fire not spread ( really really overpowered ) silencer almost no damage reduce ( really bad ) ""

You cant shoot an SMG effectively at long range, unless its a burst fire SMG (Chicom). Theres enough recoil to where you can not die in 1 - 2 bursts at long range from Chicom, and to where they can not burst fire you from long range.

High Fire Rate, Good Hip Fire, Good Close Range = Definition of SMG

Also the laser sight on an SMG only makes the spread 33% more tighter. Silencer on or off doesn't matter, SMG's shoot fast enough to make up for dmg loss.

I do not see how you come to the conclusion SMG's are OP. They play the SMG role the way their supposed to be. Also, do keep in mind the game is set in the future and may of the SMG's do say they are made to have low recoil (Not the same as no recoil). You can easily tell they have recoil by shooting a wall.

If you lose a gunfight against an Assult Rifle user, either you had bad lag comp or didn't have the better accuracy on the chest / head. They may take 1 more bullet to kill, but the RoF makes up for that.

I do use SMG's on small maps, like Hijacked and Slums. However people still use it too much on every map like Yemen and Turbine, which I like to snipe in. But the bigger deal is, I do not want to be using only one gun class just so I can compete with other players, when this game has so much other features and 22 other guns.

the first few days i played, i couldnt figure out why i was getting worked so bad. then i realized that most people were hipfiring in close range battles. that split second of ads was making the difference between getting beat or not. i rarely hipfired in mw3 (used stalker instead of steady aim), so i wasn't used to it. so i just adapted and started hipfiring, and what do you know, i started doing well.

over time, people will find ways to counter the smgs. you'll probably see more people sniping, more people shotgunning, etc. just find what works for you and make it fun.

I was using a stock SCAR as I had nothing unlocked I counted 6 hit markers. The guy I was shooting didn't even see me until I started hitting him. He looked up with his SMG (I believe it was the PDW) and shot me 5 times with it surpressed

I'm not saying guns are OP, I'm just saying they're imbalanced ARs have a very slight advantage at range. The FAL is a 4 shot kill at range unsupressed when it should be 3 tops. The SMR has stupid high recoil so it should be a 2. Full auto ARs should be no more than 4, and SMGs should be at least 6

If you die to a SMG at long range, you must know it is your fault. Or, you know, lag.

At first I thought it was me, new game, new flavors to get use to. But after a while (I played the sh*t out of this game for the first five days) I started to notice patterns. Like only every other shot out of the FAL would register, The PDW and MP7 had near infinite range, and the M8 needed three pulls of trigger to get the kill.

It just seemed that certain ARs were not balanced out very well and they didn't have any strengths that gave them a winning advantage. Gun fights are nothing but luck in this game