I would sign Charlie Waters. But I was making a point about him possibly shoving off Newman while keeping lard ass Williams. Shows injustice in its truest form.

Well, let's see, let's break it down for you Bob, since you're obviously having a hard time with it. Terence Newman after this year = No contract. Roy Williams after this year = Yes contract. Comprende?

That is exactly what I want my $10MM safety for. Special teams. And what talent does he have, running around in circles while the TE runs in for a TD? Or better yet, smashing into his own teammate b/c he is 1 second too late for a tackle.

Well when you're forced to eat dead-money, you might as well make him do something. I'd rather have him play special teams while his cap hit lowers, than have him on the sidelines holding a clipboard and looking at pictures

Roy is anything but a talented SS at this point. He is a big fat guy who blames others for his failures but is around b/c of a mistake contract.

Would be interested to know exactly the Cap hit at this point.

He signed a 5 year, 25.2 million dollar deal with 11.1 signing bonus. That makes the salary cap hit for bonus money 2.75 million for every year of that deal. He's got three left so that would be 8.25 million directly onto the Salary Cap if he were to be released. Hefty price for a team with little cap room to begin with

So we are not franchising Terence b/c Terence won't play? Where have I heard that threat before ..... oh yeah every year 3-4 players who need their game check to support their lifestyle.

TNew will play and will do so in order to make more money than any grown man should for a game.

Notwithstanding, I would not give TNew a contract beyond 2 years. Once your body goes past 30 it can go any minute now.......

Well like i said, bring me a bear and i'll tackle that sucker down if Newman plays on the tag. I'd rather use the tag on Barber. He'll be a URFA also, and he will hold more value to us. IF Newman gets the tag, what incentive does he have playing for it, knowing that they're gonna dump him once the season is over? Agents are smarter than that.

I say TNew plays regardless b/c all players do. I can't remember 1 player sitting out a season due to the franchise tag.

What is you position again? He won't play and sit out if tagged?

How did i contradict myself?

I said Newman won't play on the tag because he has no incentive to (besides the salary). He's gonna lose market value after he plays one more year, and he was very roughed up this past year as far as injuries. Who knows when he'll aggravate that foot injury again.

A Pro-Bowl CB in his prime, ready to be over the proverbial hill, with a possibly re-curring foot injury playing for one year, with his financial security completely insecure afterwards?

He's got at least 2 years in him to play at an elite level, so that alone, with a new contract after next season, will get him somewhere between 28-32 million dollars.

You play for 8, and lose market value, risk injury, which is very possible given what type of injury he has had, and you put at risk all that money.

Now tell me, why in the hell would you play for 8 million dollars then?

Because teams realize at his age, he has 2 years in him to play at an elite level. Last year Nate Clements got an 8 year 80 million dollar deal. At age 27. DeAngelo Hall got a similar deal at 25. Why would Newman get that deal at 30?

Because teams realize at his age, he has 2 years in him to play at an elite level. Last year Nate Clements got an 8 year 80 million dollar deal. At age 27. DeAngelo Hall got a similar deal at 25. Why would Newman get that deal at 30?

Because he can make more money and have some stability if he were to get that money as soon as possible. You're right, why would a team pay humongous money to a 30 year old CB? Now put yourself in his shoes, would you go an extra year, and then try to convince a team again to pay you that kind of money, at 31?

Because he can make more money and have some stability if he were to get that money as soon as possible. You're right, why would a team pay humongous money to a 30 year old CB? Now put yourself in his shoes, would you go an extra year, and then try to convince a team again to pay you that kind of money, at 31?

Well, if Orlando Pace has taught me anything, its that teams really are willing to franchise someone year after year until most likely the point that they would have cut him anyway if he had signed a long term contract. Now, lets say the Cowboys franchise Newman 3 times and then stop. Thats I'm guessing 27 million dollars. 27 million dollars out of 27 million dollars he would have gotten. Not 27 million out of 60 that he was never going to see the other 33 of anyway.

I've been wondering if these players who sign these contracts for 4 years for 60 million dollars that consist of 1 million the first year and 59 the next 3 realize they're never going to see that other 59. Take Donte Stallworth with the Patriots for example. Or Ty Law.

Ty Law signed a huge contract with the Jets a few years ago. After the year Law had for the Jets, he was someone who clearly deserved to make the beaucoup bucks his contract had for him starting the second year. But the Jets cut him. You know why? Because they were always going to and no matter how well Law did, they were going to cut him anyway. Law had 10 interceptions. He could have had 20 and it wouldn't have mattered.

So no, I don't know why the franchise tag and the enormous amount of money you make for 1 year is such an insult to so many players. I guess I might if I was actually an NFL player. But I'm not, so I don't.

Well, if Orlando Pace has taught me anything, its that teams really are willing to franchise someone year after year until most likely the point that they would have cut him anyway if he had signed a long term contract. Now, lets say the Cowboys franchise Newman 3 times and then stop. Thats I'm guessing 27 million dollars. 27 million dollars out of 27 million dollars he would have gotten. Not 27 million out of 60 that he was never going to see the other 33 of anyway.

I've been wondering if these players who sign these contracts for 4 years for 60 million dollars that consist of 1 million the first year and 59 the next 3 realize they're never going to see that other 59. Take Donte Stallworth with the Patriots for example. Or Ty Law.

Ty Law signed a huge contract with the Jets a few years ago. After the year Law had for the Jets, he was someone who clearly deserved to make the beaucoup bucks his contract had for him starting the second year. But the Jets cut him. You know why? Because they were always going to and no matter how well Law did, they were going to cut him anyway. Law had 10 interceptions. He could have had 20 and it wouldn't have mattered.

So no, I don't know why the franchise tag and the enormous amount of money you make for 1 year is such an insult to so many players. I guess I might if I was actually an NFL player. But I'm not, so I don't.

You are talking sense to someone that makes none. Why bother.

The franchsie tag is used on older players to prepare younger guys to play or get one year juice in a playoff scenario.

TNew will "unhappily" play as a franchise but what he should have done is graduate college sooner. He has no one to blame but himself.

Well, if Orlando Pace has taught me anything, its that teams really are willing to franchise someone year after year until most likely the point that they would have cut him anyway if he had signed a long term contract. Now, lets say the Cowboys franchise Newman 3 times and then stop. Thats I'm guessing 27 million dollars. 27 million dollars out of 27 million dollars he would have gotten. Not 27 million out of 60 that he was never going to see the other 33 of anyway.

I've been wondering if these players who sign these contracts for 4 years for 60 million dollars that consist of 1 million the first year and 59 the next 3 realize they're never going to see that other 59. Take Donte Stallworth with the Patriots for example. Or Ty Law.

Ty Law signed a huge contract with the Jets a few years ago. After the year Law had for the Jets, he was someone who clearly deserved to make the beaucoup bucks his contract had for him starting the second year. But the Jets cut him. You know why? Because they were always going to and no matter how well Law did, they were going to cut him anyway. Law had 10 interceptions. He could have had 20 and it wouldn't have mattered.

So no, I don't know why the franchise tag and the enormous amount of money you make for 1 year is such an insult to so many players. I guess I might if I was actually an NFL player. But I'm not, so I don't.

I understand what you're saying about the constant franchising, but why in the hell would someone happily play when franchised if they would be one injury away from being released the following season? If Newmans' foot injury were to arise again the year he would potentially be franchised, what are the chances of him being released at the end of the season? Pretty high i'd say, and he'd lose a ton of market value. Three years under the franchise would net you close to 30 million dollars, yes, none of that which is GUARANTEED. That being the key word around contracts. Something i'm feeling you have a hard time understanding.

I do get what you're saying with the Jets and Law, but Law was coming off an injury plagued season, and he needed at least one year to prove himself that he could play. I doubt he played for chump change, so if you have the numbers of the contract he signed, please, bring them up, because i'm sure there was a nice little signing bonus in there at some point. Players don't care much about their salary. They want to get as much signing bonus as they can, because that's all the money that they're guaranteed. One injury or bad season and the only guarantee that they have is that they're getting released or taking a pay cut.

And you don't have to be an NFL player to understand how teams shaft players with the Franchise tag. It just takes a little common sense on what would be the best financial scenario for a player.

Put yourself in the players position and let go of that little fantasy that players will just obey when the team wants to use them for one year and throw them to the curb.

I understand what you're saying about the constant franchising, but why in the hell would someone happily play when franchised if they would be one injury away from being released the following season? If Newmans' foot injury were to arise again the year he would potentially be franchised, what are the chances of him being released at the end of the season? Pretty high i'd say, and he'd lose a ton of market value. Three years under the franchise would net you close to 30 million dollars, yes, none of that which is GUARANTEED. That being the key word around contracts. Something i'm feeling you have a hard time understanding.

Unless Newman's foot falls off, no, I don't think the Cowboys would simply release him. If a team franchises a player, I'm pretty sure they are required to pay him the average of the top five players in the league. So in the sense, the 8-10 million or however much it is, is garunteed.

And most of the money in the contract Newman would get isn't garunteed anyway.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MetSox17

I do get what you're saying with the Jets and Law, but Law was coming off an injury plagued season, and he needed at least one year to prove himself that he could play. I doubt he played for chump change, so if you have the numbers of the contract he signed, please, bring them up, because i'm sure there was a nice little signing bonus in there at some point. Players don't care much about their salary. They want to get as much signing bonus as they can, because that's all the money that they're guaranteed. One injury or bad season and the only guarantee that they have is that they're getting released or taking a pay cut.

I have found a couple of snippets of Law's NYJ contract, although nothing I'd call concrete. From what I can piece together.
7 years 50 million dollars
Incentive laiden
11 million dollar roster bonus between his first and second years..... that he never saw.
"Potentially" 28 million over the first three years.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MetSox17

And you don't have to be an NFL player to understand how teams shaft players with the Franchise tag. It just takes a little common sense on what would be the best financial scenario for a player.

Put yourself in the players position and let go of that little fantasy that players will just obey when the team wants to use them for one year and throw them to the curb.

But the team doesn't just throw them to the curb after one year. In fact, players often sign the franchise tender with the agreement that the teams CAN'T franchise them a second time.

Who you going to believe? Hawaii coach and talent evaluator June Jones

Shortly after the NFL Draft, SMU coach June Jones visited Wade Phillips. And he made a bold statement ...

The Cowboys' best draft pick, Jones insisted, would be fifth guy they took. That would be Boise State CB Orlando Scandrick, whom June faced in the WAC in his days as Hawaii coach.

"He's not better than June Jones thought he was, I'll tell you that," Phillips said of Scandrick. "I hope he doesn't mind me quoting him, but he said, 'You know who the best player you got in the draft was?' And I said no, and he said, 'Scandrick.' He said he's going to better than all of them you got. I said, 'Really?'

"He said, 'I'm telling you, I've seen a lot of DBs and I was on the field seeing him,' and talked about his presence on the field during the game, and you don't see that (on film). He thinks he's going to be pretty good."

If you've watched the kid through two days of practice, I think you'd agree.

Or Hawaii fan and super poster D-Unit

I've seen him look lost trying to defend Hawaii's passing attack, so if anyone, maybe it was my remarks that coop was talking about. The value was fine, his numbers are good, but his play on the field is what caused his fall. Let's not be mistaken here... he's a fast guy, but he's got A LOT to learn about being a corner and his instincts suck. I would've preferred to use the pick in another direction.

That's some pretty good praise, and I don't think its too much to assume he will see some playing time in the Dime formations at some point...I really like the upside he offers, and I won't say we should of went in another direction, because there were at least 5 other guys available when we took Walden that just made things worse, I hate to knock a guy before he plays a down, but quite frankly there were alot more highly rated players left on the defensive side of the ball so that one pissed me off.

I had been wanting 2 corners in this draft all along, even with Pacman, Molden, Wheatley, and Scandrick were 3 sleepers at corner I wanted us to pick up because I felt one might slide, Scandrick did the most so that was one of the moves I appluaded.

I'm still upset we didn't draft Blake, I thought Jerry would of jumped on that potential and upside like always, call me crazy but for a 6th I'll take the guy who was a previous 1st rounder and labeled to be a beast in the 3-4...He would be extremely close to home and in familiar surroundings, he must of had some serious issues in his head if we went with Walden over him.

__________________

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scott Wright

I guarantee that if someone picks Cam Newton in the Top 5 they will regret it.

Who you going to believe? Hawaii coach and talent evaluator June Jones

Shortly after the NFL Draft, SMU coach June Jones visited Wade Phillips. And he made a bold statement ...

The Cowboys' best draft pick, Jones insisted, would be fifth guy they took. That would be Boise State CB Orlando Scandrick, whom June faced in the WAC in his days as Hawaii coach.

"He's not better than June Jones thought he was, I'll tell you that," Phillips said of Scandrick. "I hope he doesn't mind me quoting him, but he said, 'You know who the best player you got in the draft was?' And I said no, and he said, 'Scandrick.' He said he's going to better than all of them you got. I said, 'Really?'

"He said, 'I'm telling you, I've seen a lot of DBs and I was on the field seeing him,' and talked about his presence on the field during the game, and you don't see that (on film). He thinks he's going to be pretty good."

If you've watched the kid through two days of practice, I think you'd agree.

Or Hawaii fan and super poster D-Unit

I've seen him look lost trying to defend Hawaii's passing attack, so if anyone, maybe it was my remarks that coop was talking about. The value was fine, his numbers are good, but his play on the field is what caused his fall. Let's not be mistaken here... he's a fast guy, but he's got A LOT to learn about being a corner and his instincts suck. I would've preferred to use the pick in another direction.

For now I'm leaning towards June.:D

Is this the same June Jones that told Colt Brennan that he'd be a sure fire first round pick if he comes back for his Senior year? Yes, you say? Oh ok... just checking.

Hell I hope Scandrick is good, but let's not get carried away here. He's got a large adjustment curve ahead of him. He's got the raw skills, but that's all I've seen so far. Fact remains... he got TOASTED by Hawaii's pass offense... and he knew they were going to pass. No run guessing involved. He knew they were gonna pass and still had difficulty covering. We're talking about performance against a 6th round draft pick and a WR bunch that all went undrafted. So when he covers WRs in the NFL... I hope he's not thrown into the fire too prematurely.

Is this the same June Jones that told Colt Brennan that he'd be a sure fire first round pick if he comes back for his Senior year? Yes, you say? Oh ok... just checking.

Hell I hope Scandrick is good, but let's not get carried away here. He's got a large adjustment curve ahead of him. He's got the raw skills, but that's all I've seen so far. Fact remains... he got TOASTED by Hawaii's pass offense... and he knew they were going to pass. No run guessing involved. He knew they were gonna pass and still had difficulty covering. We're talking about performance against a 6th round draft pick and a WR bunch that all went undrafted. So when he covers WRs in the NFL... I hope he's not thrown into the fire too prematurely.

OMG, you mean a coach lied to keep his QB for another year? WOW I bet thats the first time thats happened.:p Just seems strange for a coach, unsolicited, to say he was going to be the best player we drafted. Especially after the coaches team lit him up.