After little real change in 2018, exhorting the revolution in 2019

The gloss seems to be wearing off the new Labour-led Government after a year of more hype than happening. Those wanting a real revolution, or at least real progressive change, are disappointed and may return to protest and activism.

The big challenges will be getting Jacinda Ardern to take a more radical approach to leading the way to real change, and whether Winston peters will let her do it if she tries (perhaps she has tried and failed privately this year).

Something happened in 2018 to NZ politics and I think it has everything to do with Jacinda Ardern.

You see after a near decade of National Party rule for better or worse (mostly worse for the majority and definitely better for the well off) the scales tilted just enough (when the thumb of Winston Peters was added) to tip things in favor of regime change…National were out and we had a new (well sorta new) government with political darling Jacinda Ardern and political opportunist Winston Peters running things.

It was for many, who had longed and hoped for an end to the Neo-Liberal revolution that Labour had started in 1984, supposed to be a fresh start, a new page if you will in the book of NZ, with our two heroic leaders (because we are not counting James “I wanna be conservative” Shaw as a leader in this scenario) tearing down the old structures and rebuilding the new.

And then nothing happened.

Oh to be sure we had a dynamic 90 days of fun and excitement over the summer of 2016 with what at the time looked like an auspicious start but by mid winter 2018 the “revolution”* was well and truly over and by start of summer 2018 it was clear that the leitmotif of the government was something along the lines of “Opps, oh dear, but hey at least we tried”.

This is far from the only expression of disappointment about lack of boldness and action with the new Government.

We could go into detail and look at how things like Kiwibuild, the watered down labor reforms, Winston’s slush fund and parasitic nods to horse racing, as well as Jacinda Ardern, showing no political nonce or skill, has become little more than a hollowed out talisman like figurehead for a highly cathartic but ultimately futile feel good orgy of political spin and retroactive finger pointing at National for why the country continues along this doomed course to neo-feudal slave state.

But it was not all doom and gloom in 2018 as things like MeeToo in NZ, the teachers strikes and issues like water, immigration and tourism have slowly continued to bubble away while the willingness of whistle-blowers and leakers, in and outside government, show that FukYoo Politix is alive and well and lurking just below the surface of NZ.

Oh yes ladies and gentlemen, its not the political classes (and the now mostly parasitic media) which have dominated the discussion but ordinary kiwis with their voices and their issues and this is why the Labour/NZ First coalition has found that the agenda slipped away from them before even six months were up and that celebratory mood of late 2017 had shifted to increasingly organized dissent.

Labour, National, NZ First and much of the media are of the old school political class. Can their power be challenged?

And thus we arrive at the year 2019, the year of FukYoo Politix in NZ, the year that Jacinda, Winston and Labour start to look just as bad as Simon Bridges and National and we start to see more and more Kiwis saying (usually in large groups with banners and placards) that they have had enough, that they want real change for the better, not just some feel good platitudes from the faux liberals in government.

The question is how many is “more and more Kiwis”, and what influence can they have on Government?

2019 is also the year that decrepit organisations like political parties, the Treasury and the NZDF are going to come under more and more examination and scrutiny as social media and digital tech continue to act as independent drivers of change because if Jamie-Lee Ross can tape his conversations with Simon Bridges so can anyone.

2019 is also the year this blog gets its mojo back as we will be going over from a “wait and see” attitude to our new government to full blown critique and mockery of the scum-baggy doings of this current government because its become evidently clear that Jacinda has her comfortable salary and those nice perks but Labour is essentially out of ideas and now more than happy to sit back and get by on nostalgic reminiscences and saying things like “but it was worse under National” rather than do anything concrete.

In short the FukYoo revolution that was brewing under National and John Key but which was temporarily nipped in the bud by a change of government is now back on track and looking for a few new scalps. And this blog officially endorses that.

Those scalps would have to be Government scalps.

Democracy is at its strongest when people participate and when participation is more than voting once every three years and in the last 12 months I have seen more and more people get upset about things, talk about things and talk about doing something about those things rather than just sit by and do nothing.

So will they do more than talk and become active seeking real action?

2019 is the year the Coalition Government in NZ gets put on notice and have that notice enforced if they cant do whats needed to be done and 2019 is also the year that we start to look critically at politics in NZ in general as its become pervasively clear that political parties are more the problem than the solution, that undue influence of foreign and business interests are really what politicians and senior civil servants are listening to rather than Kiwis.

At this point this is only a thumb nail sketch of my ideas for blogging in 2019 but I must say its an exciting thought to be out of the stink mist that was 2018 and heading towards a dynamic and trans-formative next 12 months.

It will be interesting to see if anything like this actually happens,

I support greater public involvement in politics and social change – so long as democratic processes are used and valued.

It would be a challenge, as there are a variety of views on what trans-formative changes are required.

I doubt that much change would come from the major political blogs. Whale Oil has slipped from political influence, and Kiwiblog, The Standard and perhaps The Daily Blog are too closely tied to old school parties and politics.

Politics is a numbers game. Perhaps smaller party independent blogs could look at some way of increasing their visibility.

135 Comments

David

Why would this person think there is any appetite except on the loopy fringes for any changes, look around and NZ is one of the best countries on earth to be in on nearly every international measurable scale. Key was smacked by the far right for the same thing so Ardern is going to cop it from the lefty version but she is a small town conservative woman who is not about to start a revolution, get used to it as we successfully enter year 36 of the “neo liberal experiment” wealthier with longer life expectancy and a quality of life barely imagined when Douglas, Reagan, Thatcher and the rest of Western liberal democracies threw off the dead hand of the state and union run misery.

David

There is a reason why it is fringe, both to the left and the right, and its been tried before and roundly rejected by voters who are generally sane.
Society evolves slowly and then the changes become the norm but there is little appetite or need to change radically as it seldom ends well. Imagine this Firecracker person in charge, it would be Venezuela in weeks as we all decamp to Australia with our money.

PartisanZ

kluelis

Mother

I don’t see PG’s comment ‘possibly fringe activism’ as anything to do with far left or far right political situations.

I see his comment as a way of activating change for a movement which strengthens the popular centre.

I for one have clear views about activating this, and if I do, I think that many do. (In my mind it has everything to do with Church, but equally in my mind it doesn’t need to have anything to do with lots of people choosing Christianity.)

Perhaps PG is a strong leader.

“Labour, National, NZ First and much of the media are of the old school political class. Can their power be challenged?”

Of course their power can be challenged – successfully and at this time.

I think they are all out of touch. I think that community leaders need to either show National that they need to change (the Ross saga highlighted this) or get the numbers together and make a move soon.

People might think that the Ross saga was nothing different to the usual. It was very different. A line was stepped over and we need to decide whether we will continue on complacently (therefore accepting full blown hatred and malice) or whether we will take positive action.

Perhaps PG is a strong leader.

Getting numbers together is difficult. It takes strong leadership from a few who know they have their hearts in the right places.

kluelis

“No change in 2018 and exhorting the Revolution in 2019”? PG must be tired of the lack of quality debate on this site recently and is having a laugh. Its the last day of the year and I think PG is enjoying his second barrel of whiskey and is winding people up for giggles. I certainly am enjoying the hilarity of the headline 🙂

Griff.

Your opinion is heavily biased by your wealth.
Those at the bottom of the employment heap would not see then self’s as better off .
In fact they work more hours for less reward and now find goals their parents attained like home ownership outside of expectations.

David

Younger persons Griff and those at the lower paid part of the employment market are vastly better off than their cohorts 36 years ago. With WFF and Accomodation Supplements and access to far better medicines and healthcare than before, smart phones, endless choices for leisure activities and to travel. Free education and interest free loans for tertiary education, low interest rates and if owning a home is your goal perhaps move somewhere more affordable…humankind has been on the move since time started.
Its hard to believe anyone can look at today,s NZ and feel miserable about it.

Griff.

those at the lower paid part of the employment market are vastly better off than their cohorts 36 years ago. With WFF and Accomodation Supplements

Do you know what the word employment means?
A single person trying to make ends meet today is worse off than I was at twenty
The fact that you pointed to the need for state support for young family’s demonstrates this .
Single youth who should be building assets for the future dont get those hand outs.
Any one who has kids before they own their own home is a moron.
it would be extremely hard for a couple on the minimum wage to save for a house today. Many of my peers managed to do so while still single as I did.

Gerrit

Problem is that the only housing young people can buy is a completed house with all the trimmings done. That cost for the trimmings has supplier and installer margins added into the price of a house.

We (baby boomers) on the other hand bought a house (no garage) on a naked section with only the very basic internal fittings and bare floor boards and windows.

We (baby boomers) upgraded the houses as and when we could afford each item. It made communities as each helped their neighbour in the labour intense upgrades (eg. concrete driveways).

How much would a bare house on a naked section cost these days?

Mind you under present day restrictions how many would be able to say install plumbing on a DIY basis. We did all that plus electrical wiring, building alterations and additions that for one would now not get a permit or compliance sign off. We installed wet back fire boxes, solar heating, and much more, nowadays you cant do any of that.

Duker

heres a nz company, A1 homes who provide kitsets, ie supply all the materials for the design of your choice, but not labour , subbies or consents or slab foundations
,this one materials onlyis $103k , ist a bit above 100m2 at 135m2 including garage but in many respects its a classic kiwi house from the 70s 9 except essentials now of 2 bathrooms and a double garage
council consents plus network charges for power and water/sewage will be another $30k . foundations another $20k. No idea what subbies and labour only build contract is now, but you end up well over $200khttp://www.a1homes.co.nz/plans/4/BH135

Duker

those transportable are well over your $150 k to start. Councils and power companies connection charges can start at $10k for power and water /sewage. foundations are extra as thats site dependent . those places have no paths no driveway no garage, sure you dont need them when you move in , but when are you going to get them. You better have the cash to do it as the bank wont like to lend on a ‘bare bones’ house which is hard to sell.

Duker

no . we arent agreeing about affordable. we are at more than $200k and that doesnt include land costs.
Where are you getting a section for less than $300k?. if its a $300k mini section in auckland you are going to spend as much again on a 2 level house to maximise the value.

Pink David

“more than $200k and that doesnt include land costs.
Where are you getting a section for less than $300k?.”

I was very clear about this. The cost to build the house. Land prices, in ground and councils taxing it are not part of that.

“if its a $300k mini section in auckland you are going to spend as much again on a 2 level house to maximise the value.”

Well done, you are slowly getting there. One of the main reasons people don’t want affordable houses is simply because they make no economic sense. It is quite simply stupid to build a cheap house on an expensive section, where all the council and inground costs are largely fixed regardless how much you stuff into it.

In Auckland, you want to build the biggest, most feature rich house on the smallest section possible to maximise the value.

It’s the land price and council costs that dictate the price of a property, not the cost of building the house.

“give up. PD you are well out of your depth”

If I lend you some water wings, do you want to join me in the deep end?

Pink David

“. those places have no paths no driveway no garage, sure you dont need them when you move in , but when are you going to get them. You better have the cash to do it as the bank wont like to lend on a ‘bare bones’ house which is hard to sell.”

Yes, this is part of my point, affordable used to mean entry level. Carpet, driveways, garages can all be added later.

Bank leading on a one off would be a bit harder, but if Kiwibuild followed this path, it would be a non-issue. Half the housing in NZ was developed this way.

PartisanZ

@David – “With WFF and Accommodation Supplements and access to far better medicines and healthcare than before, smart phones, endless choices for leisure activities and to travel. Free education and interest free loans for tertiary education, low interest rates and if owning a home is your goal perhaps move somewhere more affordable…humankind has been on the move since time started. It’s hard to believe anyone can look at today’s NZ and feel miserable about it.”

Firstly, it’s hard to believe anyone thinks that believing something can be improved equates to feeling miserable about it …

Second, let’s reword from the PoV of a person let’s say in the late 1960s or early 70s –

With Family Benefit and later Tax Relief and other benefits, access to far better medicines than before plus FREE healthcare, highly affordable telephone services, more than sufficient choices for leisure activities and opportunities to travel … Free school education and FREE tertiary education, low interest rates and virtually guaranteed home ownership if you want it … not to mention award wages, collective bargaining and other union safeguards … Its hard to believe anyone can look back at yesterday’s NZ and not feel just a little nostalgic compared to today’s version …

Your “if owning a home is your goal perhaps move somewhere more affordable …humankind has been on the move since time started” might work okay for people of various cultures who are more attached to money than to place … but then we some of us have that ‘problem’, notably many [not all] of our indigenous people …

Many “more affordable” places don’t have any work …

And we many of us want quaint little historic towns, relatively untouched beaches and bygone village atmospheres to have our ‘holidays’ at … don’t we? Towns and places that neoliberalism would kill off if left unregulated …

PartisanZ

Ray

Three under 30s buildering workers are having new homes built in my home town.
Cheap money and working partners seem to be what is making it work for them. And not living in Auckland.
Certainly better off than the same sort of workers at any time when you see just how good their new houses are.

Griff.

Most live in Auckland.
The median for the population of NZ is about raglan.
So whats happening in some backwater is not indicative of the entire population.
Buildering workers?
A tradesman builder or even a hammer hand with a decade of experience is not a low wage job and the occupation has advantages when it comes to building your own home like access to trade discounts, other tradies at mates rates,getting diy signed off and the stuff that disappears out the back of building sites.

Griff.

I know builders get free materials off builds because I spent a decade working on fuckin high end building sites around Auckland .
No one said nick
Occasionally it is outright theft by those so inclined.
Mostly its just surplus like a dozen extra brackets or ten extra meters of timber left over at the end of a build.
Over a few houses the extra shit soon mounts up .
Often such stuff just gets chucked in the bin.
You would be shocked at how much usable material goes to landfill from building sites .

Duker

Griff is right. when doing private builds its endemic, when i used to spend time on sites as a foundation engineer, you didnt see the owner, but if they were chinese they knew to have some someone keeping an eye on the site and they would appear out of the blue when i rolled up.

Pink David

“Mostly its just surplus like a dozen extra brackets or ten extra meters of timber left over at the end of a build.”

I don’t think you have any understanding how construction works these days. There is wastage, but builders keep track of this stuff, or they go broke. No construction company is going to survive long if they allow, in your words; “stuff that disappears out the back of building sites.”

At a minimum they will try and sell, or restock, any surplus if they can’t use it in forward work. They sure as hell won’t be letting people take it for free unless it really is scrap. And if it is scrap, it’s not really that valuable.

Griff.

I know you dont have a clue mate.
Ya buy nails straps brackets screws etc by the box lot
You always buy more than you need because it costs more money to fuck around getting five more screws or half a tube of glue if you are short Have a look Every builders van is full of stuff from older jobs nails brackets straps screws glue etc etc etc.

I once worked on a site were some fuckwit project manager tried to order exact amounts just in time.
Do you know how much it costs to have five builders sitting around waiting for load of 4x 2 to turn up ?
. Then there was the time wasted because we had to adjust new batch of batterning to suit the last load due to inconsistent gauging between runs .

We just built the house I am typing this from moved in this time last year.
I know what surplus material I blagged off the builder and is still here and what went out in the bin.

You are talking out your arse .

Pink David

Only if you do tiny jobs. And you use it across all the jobs. If you spent your life doing shit ass one off jobs you might buy a single box of screws. You might then think it ok to take the surplus for your own. That is your own moral choice.

“fuckwit project manager ”

Is there any other kind? You’d like me, I’m even more of a fuckwit project manger than most, but I only do large scale and never residential, so you will have to live without my wisdom.

“tried to order exact amounts just in time.”

His mistake being to try and get it their ‘just in time’ when his supply chain wasn’t suitable.

“Do you know how much it costs to have five builders sitting around waiting for load of 4x 2 to turn up ?”

That depends entirely how how long they had to wait. The rather critical point of ‘just in time’, being ‘in time’.

“I know what surplus material I blagged off the builder and is still here and what went out in the bin.”

Blagged eh? Is that different to ‘disappeared out the back’ then? Have we moved from that to you negotiating for the builder to donate you materials then? What percentage of your build is donated? 1%? More? Did he supply the trusses, and the roofing, and the windows as well, or just a few nails and glue?

Griff.

but I only do large scale and never residential, so you will have to live without my wisdom.

Well I never you dont know what the fuck you are talking about when it comes to residential building.
Just as I said WWW:factoutyourarsre.com

Glue nails brackets and the rests probably makes up 20% of a builds cost. Think of it 4.8 meters of 4×2= 600mm of wall how many nails ,brackets, bolts ,screws, straps ,z nails clouts finishing nails and glue is used to hold it all together?
Do to the high end stuff like I was doing and its more every thing is stainless and bronze .

Only if you do tiny jobs. And you use it across all the jobs. If you spent your life doing shit ass one off jobs you might buy a single box of screws. <blockquoote
Modern Builders are jobbers mate every house is a new job ya dont go buy bulk it comes in house lots for the job ya are doing.

Pink David

“Glue nails brackets and the rests probably makes up 20% of a builds cost.”

Griff, if generic items like fasteners and glue are such a big cost on your builds, why would the builder let you have all the ‘surplus’ free? They can be used on all jobs, they would go into stock, but here you are claiming you can pocket all the ‘left overs’ and it not be thefts.

On the hypothetical $150k house build, that means $30,000 for fasteners and glue. QS’ing isn’t a skill you have now is it. That little calc should have given you a slight clue as how solid your ‘probably’ was….

“Think of it 4.8 meters of 4×2= 600mm of wall how many nails ,brackets, bolts ,screws, straps ,z nails clouts finishing nails and glue is used to hold it all together?”

Compared to the cost of the timber, linings, cladding, roofing, trusses, fixtures and fittings, wiring, windows, and of course labour?

“Do to the high end stuff like I was doing and its more every thing is stainless and bronze .”

So you were doing one-off, expensive houses with bespoke fittings where there was lots of surplus that had no value once the job was done, and whoever paid for it all was happy for you to take it. Nice score, but do you really think it applies to builders generally? Do you really think that very expensive, high value fixtures made from bronze and stainless are going to be thrown out on building sites across the country? At a minimum, they have a reasonable scrap value that any builder would want to recover.

Unless you are in a strange world where you are using bronze clouts and stainless glue.

Ray

As far as I know these guys houses are all being built by the franchise builders while they work for local builders, so I doubt if they are getting any pay off from the Black economy.
Cheap money, reasonably cheap land and both working seem to be what they have in common.

Pink David

“Cheap money, reasonably cheap land and both working seem to be what they have in common.”

Two full time incomes, especially if they are both professionals makes a massive difference in the ability to afford housing. It’s not uncommon to have a couple in Auckland on $250k each, a $2m mortgage is quite easy for them, and a world away from what a couple with a non-working spouse can afford.

Pink David

“In fact they work more hours for less reward and now find goals their parents attained like home ownership outside of expectations.”

Yet they have many goals their parents thought fantasy, well within easy reach.

If you really want to unpack the reason house prices, especially in those nice middle class suburbs, have increase so much, you won’t like the primary driver; professional women. That is what is driving that inequality.

kluelis

Professional woman are to blame for higher house prices- really? 🙂 .Nice change from the usual “culprits” cashed up Asians immigrants , compliance red tape, land speculators. To be fair the pink dollar is the most significant driver behind the surge in house prices since 1995. Clamping down on the pink dollar is the only way houses can become affordable again for the average Kiwi…

Pink David

The emergence of professional women, and especially when in a couple with a professional man (they do not couple with non-professionals, also a driver of inequality), are the primary driver of house prices.

It’s a simple, and obvious process which has far more of an impact on Auckland house prices (and all major urban areas) than your “cashed up Asians immigrants , compliance red tape, land speculators. ”

Do you understand the societal change that this has bought about? Can you see how it works? Or are you just going to Bah! The Patriarchy! Bah!

Blazer

‘Douglas, Reagan, Thatcher and the rest of Western liberal democracies threw off the dead hand of the state and union run misery.’

you’ve soaked up the propaganda well David.

Try measuring inequality,lack of empathy ,homelessness and the domination of the FIRE sectors to the detriment of the productive tradeable sector and you will see a house of cards teetering under the weight of ideological bullshit.

David

As someone who remembers the 3 day week, marginal tax rates of 98% and endless power cuts and the IMF being called in I do have fond memories of the excitement of Thatchers revolution and all those times she was re elected.

Pink David

“Try measuring inequality,lack of empathy ,homelessness and the domination of the FIRE sectors to the detriment of the productive tradeable sector and you will see a house of cards teetering under the weight of ideological bullshit.”

Inequality has grown because we have all got a lot richer. China being a good example, inequality has grown massively, yet using inequality as a measure would indicate that Mao’s murderous rule was ‘better’ in the Blazer world.

Kitty Catkin

A prefab house, such as the ones that we saw on the news, is affordable and comes ready to move into. I don’t know about curtains, possibly not those. But they are well designed and good enough for anyone to live in.

I don’t remember people buying naked houses, although some did, I am sure.

Blazer

Unrealistic people have unrealistic expectations of what a Govt can do in 12 months.

Especially as we have just had 9 years of a lazy,non proactive administration that was too cautious to take any real risk regarding big issues like super,CGT,or housing which was supposedly never a crisis when they were in power,but now is hugely important.

David

The thing is Blazer is not that they havent done more in 12 months its that they dont seem to have anything in train to do anything much for the next 12 months either..the legislative pipeline is pretty empty for 2019.
There is no one with ambition driving this government forward, Ardern is distracted, Peters is very old and tired and the cabinet pretty talentless with no single person in the coalition who seems to have ever achieved anything in life ever so dont have that knowledge of what it looks like to drive something forward and successfully complete it.

David

Just 3 bio,s of the sort of people Labour need selected, just some balance and people with experience in delivering and winning to show the school teachers, union leaders and parliamentary staffers the way.

“Prior to standing for Parliament, Simon was a senior Crown Prosecutor in the District and High Courts. He had been a prosecutor in Tauranga since 2001, working largely on jury trials. He moved to Tauranga from a role as a litigation lawyer in Auckland.

Simon was educated at the University of Auckland, completing a BA (Political Science and History) and a LLB (Hons). He later completed a Bachelor of Civil Law at the University of Oxford.”

“After leaving the police, Mark relocated overseas and launched an international business career, including the start-up of his own company specialising in hostage rescue, supply chain security, and risk management. Working closely with the World Economic Forum, he helped establish logistic emergency response teams that provided humanitarian support in countries hit by natural disasters, such as the Philippines, Pakistan, and Haiti. He was also a member of the executive management team of several global companies, including one of the biggest logistics companies in the world.”

“Prior to entering Parliament, Andrew initially trained as an accountant before working with merchant banks in New Zealand and London for a period of 10 years. After returning to New Zealand, he co-founded a merchant bank, offering corporate advisory and capital markets advice to a range of government entities, local authorities and corporate clients.

Formerly an Officer in the New Zealand Territorial Army and British Parachute (TA) Regiment, Andrew is comfortable in the outdoors and the boardroom. Andrew had a long career in adventure racing, including competing in three Coast-to-Coast events, marathons and Ironman events. More recently he took up mountaineering, having scaled many mountain peaks, including Aoraki Mt Cook and Mt. Aspiring, and four mountains in Antarctica, including Vinson Massif (highest mountain in Antarctica), a first ascent and new route on a third. In the summer of 2012/13 he dragged a sled 112 kms to the South Pole and in 2016 he and his son each dragged sledges 120 kms across the ice to the North Pole. It is estimated that only about 120 people have trekked to both Poles.”

Duker

mark Mitchell didnt launch an international business career – he became a mercenary in the middle east. for gods sake he had no previous business experience to rely on , being a shepherd after school and then a police dog handler, staying at rank of constable.
yes he had a middle manager role for the mercenary company he joined, but its tosh to call that ‘international business’

its par for the course for national mps to inflate their CVs, just as English blanked out his Treasury analyst role as his career, and replaced it as a farmer, yet when he left the farm when he went to a boarding high school in wellington and one of his brothers took over running the farm from their parents… thats one of the brothers as it couldnt support more than one (hamish has now passed the farm onto his son) and English long ago stopped claiming he was ‘Skellerup young farmer of the year finalist’

Gerrit

Firstly; everyone should join a political party (one that suits ones personal values and outlook) and make change from within. Sitting on the sideline sniping, is not going to effect change.

All three main political parties (excluding the Greens) have a great need for grass root level change. Alternatively new political parties that carry the people along could quite possibly form if disconnect in the existing parties cannot change with the mood of the people.

Greens are a party that has changed (for better or worse is an opinion best judged by the voters) from within. From conservative environmentalist with a smattering of a social conscience to a social conscience party with a smattering of conservative environmental ideals. If this Green SJW bias is electable in the future, remains to be seen.

Secondly; the number of terms a person can be elected to parliament should be restricted to three.

To many lifers in the system that are frankly “conservative” or set in their ways (even Labour MP’s). No experience in public or private industry or even meaningful contact with the people.

Limiting parliamentary terms for person means fresh ideas from people actually having had, or will have to, make a living, and interacting with the people, outside of politics.

Typically the example in the posting about Ardern is spot on. She has her baubles and is set for life in parliament without needing any interaction with the people.

Griff.

Greens are a party that has changed (for better or worse is an opinion best judged by the voters) from within. From conservative environmentalist with a smattering of a social conscience to a social conscience party with a smattering of conservative environmental ideals. If this Green SJW bias is electable in the future, remains to be seen.

The “Greens” have always had that problem.
The Values Party was a New Zealand political party. It is considered the world’s first national-level environmentalist party,[1][2] pre-dating the use of “Green” as a political label.
…..
Decline of the party
Subsequent to the demoralising election result,(1981) the Values Party faced internal conflict between the “red” greens and the “fundamentalist” Greens, and it fragmented amidst quarrels about organisational principles.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Values_Party

Blazer

Alan Wilkinson

Values had three factions or drivers – feminism, environmentalism and socialism. Feminism won its war long ago. Environmentalism overshot and has degenerated into extremism. The socialists were always fanatical dreamers and have gone nowhere. Ironic that Kunowski was their leader and became a banker.

Alan Wilkinson

The Consultant

It was for many, who had longed and hoped for an end to the Neo-Liberal revolution that Labour had started in 1984, supposed to be a fresh start, a new page if you will in the book of NZ…

Hope And Change, baby! Why read this when you can read Chris Trotter, who has been aching for the same thing and writing the same stuff for thirty years. I guess when Chris passes, this guy can carry the torch of futility. The sad funny aspect is that there’s actually a clue in the same piece as to why the “supposed to be a fresh start” ran into reality so quickly:

… but Labour is essentially out of ideas…

NO!
Really?
What was the first clue? The party persistently at 25% or so in the polls, before Smiling Jacinda took over, should have been it.

…and that celebratory mood of late 2017 had shifted to increasingly organized dissent.

In his little fringe world of “activist” politics.

…and we start to see more and more Kiwis saying (usually in large groups with banners and placards) that they have had enough, that they want real change for the better, …

Uh huh. Out in the real world the protests I’ve seen don’t come close to those of the 1981 Springbok tour, Manapouri in 1970, or even the “Kiwis Care” or whatever the hell it was called in the late 70’s. The great mass of ordinary Lefty New Zealanders have also run out of gas after Voting For Great Change in…. 1984, 1999, and now 2017.

…in the last 12 months I have seen more and more people get upset about things, talk about things and talk about doing something about those things rather than just sit by and do nothing.

AHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAH. If this clown wants to understand the difference between old-time socialists who did actually do things, and the modern “activist” movement of Lefties, he could not do better than to look at the latter’s use of language like “dynamic” and “trans-formative”. Christ, it’s like reading some 1980’s business tomb: In Search of Excellence is the likely source candidate.

Labour, National, NZ First and much of the media are of the old school political class. Can their power be challenged?

You were a United Future candidate in Dunedin at some point, weren’t you Pete? Yes, when the NZ public wanted a “dynamic” and “trans-formative” future which would challenge the old political class and old political and socio-economic ideas, they looked to the bow-tied, bouffanted wonder from Ohariu. A party and leader whose very nature screamed Don’t-rock-the-boat-centrist and was proud of it.
FFS.

PDB

The author has simply talked with their like-minded mates and come to the conclusion that the whole country agrees with their extremist view that the country all want a ‘revolution’. The 2017 election result clearly shows otherwise.

Pink David

PDB

PG: “Labour, National, NZ First and much of the media are of the old school political class. Can their power be challenged?”

Question is why would their ‘power be challenged’ if in a democratic election around 89% of the population voted for those parties?

If there was a mood for overwhelming ‘far left-wing’ change in the direction of the NZ economy (as the author suggests) then the left wing grouping of Labour/Greens would have together easily mustered up over 50% of the vote last election rather than the 43% they did achieve. Even then you have to consider that a good chunk of the Labour vote is not ‘far-left’ either.

The Consultant

There’s similar shit-storms brewing on the Left in Britain, France, and even the USA, Why the Bernie Movement Must Crush Beto O’Rourke.
Bernie and his Bros are True Believers in real socialism and after the failure in 2016 against the evil Hillary Milhouse VonPantsuit, they’re not going to be screwed again, which is why they “Beto” as the great threat of 2020. The following sums it up pretty well:

O’Rourke projects a classic handsome, toothy, Kennedy-esque charm that reliably makes Democrats swoon. Hard-core loyalists find the contrast irksome. “Reading Karl Marx is cool,” said Nomiki Konst, a Sanders loyalist and candidate for New York City public advocate, to NBC. “Doing a livestream while you’re doing your laundry is a gimmick.”

Who does that remind you of?
David Lange
Tony Blair
Barack Obama
Justin Trudeau
Jacinda Adern

Blow-dried, gab-fest equipped geniuses of the Great Soundbite, perfectly equipped for the age of Twitter – and all, in their time, worshipped by Leftist voters as “change agents”.

Helen Clark, Michael Foot, Bernie Sanders and Jeremy Corbyn are examples of the old-school left: grim, dour, determined and not at all impressed by fluffery and bullshit. But of those listed only Clark actually won and held power, and any number of Labour voters now dismiss her time as a failure for not turning back the “neo-liberal” tide.

Perhaps some ideas would be better, rather than transformative and dynamic leaders. The only problem with that suggestion is that all the “new” Left ideas are actually as old as buggery and pre-date the neo-liberals. That’s why we’re stuck with a Labour Party with nothing more than:
– more taxes.
– more regulations and rules.
– more government institutions (including “super-departments”)
– more bureaucrats.
– more bureaucratic control.

And added to what we already have. There’s nothing new, dynamic or transformative about that.

And National will leave it all in place when they win power again, in 2026! 🙂

Alan Wilkinson

Mother

Twittering is the use of words, so it can be used to good effect. Maybe those of you with plenty of time for political blogging could start tweeting as Maggie suggests. It may have positive results, influentially.

kluelis

kluelis

Once I read the line “Politics 2019: The year of FukYoo in NZ ” I realized this was as click bait silly as it gets. Really funny that so many above commentators have been suckered into taking it seriously. Sooo fuunnnnyyy

Corky

Mother

Of course whatever is posted should be taken seriously. Seriously is the only way feasible. It becomes obvious who and where the clicks lie between old timers – but that pattern of communication tends to dissuade others from joining in much needed (serious) political discussion.

kluelis

Yes you are right Mother there is an old boys network on every political blog. While they disagree with each other Ve He Mentally at times one thing they can agree on is making sure only the “right sort of chap” is allowed into their Terror Tory 🙂 Which as you say confines the discussion to a narrow band of perspective which only reinforces their belief they are right. But that is a massive fault of all sites and they become vulnerable to inbreeding.
So any new perspective is frightening to the comfort bubble so draws knee jerk responses. How have you survived here mother?

Alan Wilkinson

David

Perhaps when someone comments with their perspective Kleulis you could engage with them rather than calling them racist, sexist, bigotted and stereotyping them because of their colour and then dismissing everything they say because of a perceived privilege you think they have which stops them having any empathy or useful to contribute.

kluelis

Pink David

kluelis

“you could engage with them rather than calling them racist, sexist, bigotted and stereotyping them because of their colour and then dismissing everything they say because of a perceived privilege”
Calling such folk what they are is “engaging” with them.

Pink David

You are quite happy calling people racists, sexists, stereotyping them and blaming privilege for all the wrongs of the world as long as you are right 51% of the time. The other 49% of the time, you just don’t care and those people don’t matter.

kluelis

Mother

I never expected I would get interested in blog conversations. Perhaps I felt a little obliged to ‘get to know people’ since PG gave me a guest post. Maybe it’s a wee interlude in my life. Being a busy mother, I do have better things to do.

I’ve survived so far because I either win arguments😇 or learn with humility. The political issues are often over my head but I am very interested.

Politically, it seems that I am different to others on YNZ – I’m the only one who talks about the importance of Church for NZ (for political reasons, but with Church being totally separate from state).

I’ve survived because I had nothing to lose except my freedom of speech, and I wasn’t going to let unbelievers wallop me into silence like fellow ‘Christians’ did.

As with anything which is truly profound, it might look inconsequential to others but to the individual it is a God send and the ripples of love go on in helpful ways around that individual. PG restored my freedom of speech and, for me, that was profound.

I am still very angry about being pushed out of fellowship because of a progression of wrongs against me. My patience and love meant nothing to them ALL my life! What a waste.

Never mind – PG made it possible for me to belong somewhere in community – and it is profound. You might think that’s strange, but that’s the point. The strangeness is on the pathetic church fellowships in NZ, not on me.

I doubt that PG is laughing as you say Kluelis. I think he’s serious about good politics.

I have begun to see that this blogging is only a hobby for most of you. Is that because you are now too old to get stuck in as Gerrit suggests?

I could never be bothered spending time only talking politics. I take my comments – and others – seriously.

I really believe that purer Church in NZ fits perfectly alongside/around/within the revolution we need. I know it is the only way we can all move forward healthfully.

PartisanZ

David

Blazer has made me think and change my mind, Griff probably could have done but tends to launch into the personal too quickly, Gezza to a degree on some things but I largely agree with most of what he says.

Alan Wilkinson

kluelis

@Alan Wilkinson. “I have frequently found facts I didn’t know or misunderstood when researching a comment by someone else or myself.
I think an important reason is to test your ideas to see what challenges them as well as to discover new things”.
Weasel words are easy to say but your intemperate ones
say far more about you.

Alan Wilkinson

kluelis

PartisanZ / December 31, 2018
“Serious political discussion” that will achieve WHAT exactly …?
Hands up anyone whose had their opinion significantly changed by a discussion on here?”
Nobody I would think.
Because confrontation and winning at all costs is the tenor of most blog debate.
Losing is not an option so defending one’s point of view to the death
over rules any possibility of change no matter the facts.
Until changing one’s mind is seen as positive do not expect
any one changing their mind on here any time soon.

Mother

“Until changing one’s mind is seen as positive do not expect
any one changing their mind on here any time soon.”

Perhaps the moderate will become the staple of contributors on YNZ.

Surely people get tired of bickering. If YNZ is more than a hobby (ie there are people here who are action takers) then YNZ will increasingly become a good role model of a blog site and influential politically.

How about this idea?
PG could invite high school seniors to contribute on YNZ. The old timers could have a great influence on critical thinking at the same time as enjoying their hobby. This could be done during school time through collaboration with English teachers and school club supervisors.

Pink David

PartisanZ

Having a tiny bit more bureaucratic control on top of A LOT of bureaucratic control means almost nothing … typical consultantocracy talk …

In 2019 it will become plainly apparent that Labour-led have no chance whatsoever of being or ever becoming a “revolutionary” government …

What we call “neoliberalism” – for want of a brief description of “corporate-political globalized self-favoring re-regulation with austere social welfare” – has got it sewn up …

The neoliberal paradigm is simply way too embedded now through a host of tentacles that reach almost every level of society ranging from ‘Fiscal Responsibility’ through media complicity to the sham of consumer comfort without environmental impact … We live in an Inverted Totalitarian State …

We’ve been taught [indoctrinated] not to care about those levels of society which the tentacles don’t reach … the truly dispossessed, disenfranchised and poor …

“It’s their own fault” …. Right?

I may be one of the Leftiest people on here … and I ain’t holdin’ my breath …

PartisanZ

Behind what you [and most others here] perceive as negativity there’s a whole heap of positivity about how the world could be … how societies might be organised … how people might be more ethical … which IMHO is the same as Godly …

I do plenty of positive action taking … I do it at home and locally … where it counts … as well as on here …

I continue to use those outdated ‘Right’ and ‘Left’ labels despite their increasing lack of accuracy … What can I say? We gotta have ‘names’ for ‘things’ eh?

Blazer

‘ “No wonder we do not lose heart. Though our outward humanity is in decay, yet day by day we are inwardly renewed. Our troubles are slight and short-lived; and their outcome an eternal glory which outweighs them far. Meanwhile our eyes are fixed, not on the things that are seen, but the things that are unseen: for what is seen passes away: what is unseen is eternal”.

The Consultant

“That means that no matter how we reform health care, we will keep this promise to the American people: If you like your doctor, you will be able to keep your doctor, period. If you like your health-care plan, you’ll be able to keep your health-care plan, period. No one will take it away, no matter what.”

“I am sorry that they are finding themselves in this situation based on assurances they got from me. We’ve got to work hard to make sure that they know we hear them and that we’re going to do everything we can to deal with folks who find themselves in a tough position as a consequence of this.”

And yet it won’t make an iota of difference to the believers in the next “revolution” that will be introduced by Beto or Bernie in 2020, or 2024 or whenever.

Duker

What is your point, that people got lesser plans than before ? Talk to those people here on southern cross who see ‘their plan coverage’ whittled away each year and get steep increases in premiums…… and thats from a non profit !