I was pretty disturbed by the reaction to Juan Pablo Montoya winning at Sonoma, immediately after his win. I was not disturbed by his win, itself, but by the reaction of the announcers and the post-race talkity-talk (which moved from TNT to The Speed Channel in short order).

As if it had been pre-planned for JPM's first win, the announcers over-gushed about The Wonder of It All: How NASCAR wanted to go international.... And, they had the cameras repeatedly show shots of flags representing Bogata, Columbia being draped in mutlitudes from the stands. Making sure they were just "so thrilled and positive" that NASCAR might become world-wide.

They even gave a little speech (although it came across as conversational) about how many people still clung to the idea of NASCAR as a SOUTHERNsport, and how behind-the-times this was.

Well, yeah, NASCAR can make loads of bucks if it becomes international. And I am sure these beloved Southern announcer's are making some bonuses for acting so almost-gushy-excited at the idea that NASCAR can "capture" a bigger audience by going international. They will pro'bly bring the ghost of Bill France into this plan.

Look, I don't mind the Yankee drivers. I really like some of them ... SMOKE.

But the idea of NASCAR going international; well, it IS a Southern sport first to me, but I accept and even like it very much as a NATIONAL sport.

But INTERnational; that is something else. I think that I really would lose interest and stop watching if it wasn't American boys and men duking it out.

That is one of the big reasons that I don't like Indy so much.

Anyway, for a moment, I had a bad reaction to the cameras repeatedly showing shots of the Columbian flags hanging over the stands. Hey, I can't bring a Southern /Confederate flag there to drape when a Southern driver wins....why does The Cradle of Cocaine (Bogata, Columbia) get to hang it's flag out, and be celebrated for it?

Anyway, I am just really sad at the idea of NASCAR going international, which it seems the "powers-that-be are pushing for.

For me, I would much prefer to see more women and U.S. minorities driving in NASCAR than to have NASCAR make a push to become an international competition more on the order of Indie racing or grand prix racing.

There was some talk of Danika Patrick coming over to NASCAR, but I think she had a lot of opposition. I recall that Richard Petty was opposed and even made remarks such as NASCAR didn't need the "kind of woman" who would dream of racing against NASCAR's tough men (or some such nonsense.) You know, we wouldn't want women , and by extension, minorities to get all uppity and think they can compete with the current crop of NASCAR males. NASCAR doesn't roll like that.

Well, I don't buy that argument. I do predict the day that some of NASCAR's best drivers will be American minorities and women. First, we will have to have a "passing of the guard", so to speak, to get those old attitudes out of the sport or business or whatever it is.

What could happen, though, is that to preserve the true Southern character of NASCAR while it evolves toward worldwide participation, there may have to be another league grow up from the grassroots just as NASCAR did and take over the niche that NASCAR appears to be leaving behund in its dust--er--exhaust.

I was kinda confused after sundays race too . First off they do a whole prerace deal on JR. Johnson and how proud the are of their roots then start talking about NASCAR going International after Montoya's win. Cant say i was too suprised after the race was over Montoya came from a series that has alot of roadcourses so it came natural to him just like Robbie the other Gordon , and Boris Said. That is what i dont like about road course these gunslingers that come in just to race the road course for the team then vanish. I think Nascar has moved from its roots. It has changed alot since i started watchin in 95 and looks like it will continue, more cookie cutter tracks and the COT (which i think is completly UGLY) and the changing of the guard, old drivers being replaced by new ones , my father how has been watching NASCAR since Petty says he dosnt like it anymore cause of the new car and the media only covering the young drivers. He does have a point i can remember when espn/TNN used to interview the top ten drivers and the points leader after every race, now you are lucky if you get the top 5 and hardly every do they interview the points leader unless he is in the top 5 finishers. BRING back Eli Gold too I hate these new comintators , that think the know alot about NASCAR the bums, bring back Eli Gold and Ned Jarrett . Really smart TNT have Kyle Petty be an in car commentator and then he wrecks on the first lap LOL can you say embarassing. While your at it lets race at North Wilkesboro Speedway again . As my pappy used to say Dance with who brung ya.

Cleborne Fan wrote:
For me, I would much prefer to see more women and U.S. minorities driving in NASCAR than to have NASCAR make a push to become an international competition more on the order of Indie racing or grand prix racing.

I DO sincerely apoplogize for what I wrote when I said: "I think that I really would lose interest and stop watching if it wasn't American boys and men duking it out." I would like to qualify that to, "I would like to seetruly qualified North American men and women of any race battle it out". My Bad - I was so upset by the "international " idea that I forgot to give the credit due to every United States' citizen.

NASCAR driving takes superbly conditioned athletes; and in the case of NASCAR, that is based on the driver's concentration and reflex time (as opposed to size and muscle mass). So, it is suitable, in this sport, for men and women to compete against each other. And, as for race (not as in car race, as in the other kind of "race"): I don't really give a darn about that, as long as the driver is a good one.

(A side-thought here, though, if we are going to have both men and woman of every North American racial derivation represented, we are going to have a lot of problems with what happens when who gets mad at whom - like when Danica Patrick got mad at Dan Wheldon and shoved him - and he said he couldn't shove her back because she was a woman? And what about the NASCAR truck race Friday, when the veteran Musgrave slammed the rookie Kelly Bires into the wall after Bires collided with Musgrave? How are we going to deal with these things when there are drivers of mixed races and both sexes? It's going to happen, racing is very intense and full of adrenaline.)

Younglobo: thanks for that "soapbox" speech - I felt a lot better after I read that. You sure knew what you were talking about there, a lot better than I knew what I was talking about when I started this thread.

From the second reply to this thread:What could happen, though, is that to preserve the true Southern character of NASCAR while it evolves toward worldwide participation, there may have to be another league grow up from the grassroots just as NASCAR did and take over the niche that NASCAR appears to be leaving behund in its dust--er--exhaust.

From the fourth reply to this thread:eff nascar

support your local short track

Wow, very interesting.

Can't remember the exact definition, but does this exchange fall into the catagory of an "oxymoron"?

For some reason, I remember a member here (who might not appreciate my quoting him directly in this thread), saying "God Bless the regional differences".

Dont know what eff means i assume it is not good. But if you dont support NASCAR and yet go to your local track where will the drivers go ?? I Have attended my local Short Track (I-70 speedway Odessa,MO) if everyone left NASCAR (and I am taking a big leap cause you can hardly get any 5 Nascar fans to agree on anything) where would the local shorttrack heros go after they have accomplised everything in there region?? Would think they would want to compete in the next level of nascar so if you take away the big game whats the point kind of like taking the major leagues away but yet leaving the minors in baseball.

Reb.. Yeah my wife cant understand how i can remember NASCAR Stuff but still cant remember the kids and her B-DAY LOL priorities i guess LOL

How would NASCAR define "redneck" ? For example, a Caucasian male born in the South but not South Florida? Would a Southern-born female be "redneck" enough? Could African-American males or females qualify?

It would seem that "redneck" has seen considerable change in meaning over the last century or two. I believe it was originally applied to the farmer who worked his own fields. No matter how well covered you were, the sun managed to turn your neck red.

Why or how that got transferred to just the southerners has escaped me. As well as why "crackers" -- as I understand to have been applied to those farmers who raised grain to be "cracked" -- has also drifted to southerners. Northern farmers were every bit as red-necked as southern farmers, and northern farmers also raised grain to be cracked. See anything social here? Most every northern farmer worked his own fields and raised grain to be cracked; the difference might be in that the elite southern farmer did not--he didn't till his own fields (well, many didn't), and he raised cotton, rice (not to be cracked), tobacco, hemp or cane. Hmmmm? So maybe southern farmers got the appelations from their aristocratic neighbors?

I don't see a circle track of any size interesting to the European who likes the twisty courses emphasizing agility rather than raw speed. Finesse vs. horsepower. The ocean is very wide, but not so wide as tradition.

Ole, in northern and central Florida, crackers were so-called because they cracked whips to drive cattle to ports from Florida's interior where they were raised. These whip crackers did not actually hit the cattle with the whips, much too hurtful and damaging to the valuable cattle. They just cracked the whip or snapped it in the air. Just the sound of the cracking whip was enough to get the cattle moving.

JoanieReb wrote:But INTERnational; that is something else. I think that I really would lose interest and stop watching if it wasn't American boys and men duking it out.

That is one of the big reasons that I don't like Indy so much.
That sounds xenophobic and sexist. OK, you have clarified the sexist part, but it still seems xenophobic to me. You don't like Indy because it has a lot of foreign drivers? What possible difference does that make to the excitement of the sport? Clearly it's not the driving action that interests you, but something more superficial.

Venturing out of sick bed here because i think ijontichy is spot-on. The idea that NASCAR should stay an "American" sport seems not only ethnocentric, but also an argument designed to discourage competition. Look at baseball - the "All-American" sport". Until we found out that many players from other countries play the game better than Americans.

If NASCAR drivers get lackadaisical and are satisfied with their talent as it stands today, then they deserve to be over-taken by International drivers. NASCAR may have an American orgin, but that guarantees nothing except a head-start. If a South American driver, a Chinese driver, a Korean driver or any other driver can beat them - that's good for the sport. You may root against them, but it's good for the sport. Work harder, keep the technological edge, spend more, and you'll stay on top. Not willing to do that? Then you don't deserve to be on top. Just my two-cents.

Wishing me well, praising me, complimenting me, or telling me what an outstanding person I am is never off-topic.

Seriously - thank you - sitting up for the first time in 4 days. Cancelled trivia so I can sleep in the morning. I'm sure I'll be fine. In almost half a century, I've had food poisoning twice, and both times from take-out pizza toppings ( different toppings!). Think I'll make my own from now on....

Well, Never Mind for now. Ya'All Go worship your open-wheelers and International Racing Unity and meet at International Starbucks. Cause really, you don't want to know about the fine points of NASCAR racing, you just want to talk about starbucks coffee in two different languages, niether of which you speak well.

Have heard that explanation from another Floridian. (Maybe it was you? Don't think so.) The north Georgia crackers might disagree with you. Cracker might well refer to drinking, as in cracked corn. But, although Florida drovers might have been referred to as crackers, I don't believe it explains the appelation.

Total aside. Was going to make a comparison with the Australian drovers who cracked whips and might also be called crackers. So I asked Dear One (a fan of "Snowy River") what one calls an Australian cowboy. Her answer: "Gorgeous." So we'll let that thought slide.

Ole, I saw that explaination about the origin of the term "Florida Cracker" on a PBS show about a re-enactment of the great cattle drives of the past in Florida in which herds of cattle were driven across the state to Tampa.

The show was most interesting to me because it showed the difficulty of reenacting under modern conditions when most horses these days are unaccustomed to such long work days and the cattle and horses were suffering from a late season heat wave and much of the land that used to be open range is now fenced in and is built up with houses, shopping centers and multi-laned highways.

Wait! I just found a web site that discusses the origins and various meanings of "cracker" including Florida crackers. I hope I can get this link to work.