We know that every front has a back, and that something as big as macrobiotics must have an equally big backside to it. What is your personal macrobiotic stumbling block? What makes it hard for you to tow the line and keep with the program? If you could make one wish for your macrobiotic practice, what would that wish be? Join us to chat, console and inspire. Tell us your favorite excuse for resisting.

Sunday February 26, 2006“Difficulties You Encounter Along the Macrobiotic Path”Hosted by Ginat Rice.

GinatWe know that every front has a back, and that something as big as macrobiotics must have an equally big backside to it.

What is your personal macrobiotic stumbling block? What makes it hard for you to tow the line and keep with the program?

If you could make one wish for your macrobiotic practice what would it be?

RebeccaYes, I love it so much- and I wish that the day to day planning and cooking could flow more easily

SheldonYou don't have to give up butter. Just make your own with onions or carrots or squash or cabbage.

ChickThat isn't the kind of butter I crave.

SheldonCravings can change if you want to try. When my daughter gave up ketchup sandwiches, I knew that anything could change.

LeighThat question about what we'd most like to see in our life to make macrobiotics make more sense for us…well, it’s to have other macrobiotic people in my daily life

RebeccaI went through a terribly excessive almond /tehini craze..

SheldonCreate macrobiotic people in your life! One woman in our community invites her neighbors for a macro breakfast to get them interested in eating better. It works. Be creative; expand your social horizons and don't give up.

GinatI see that the first subject tonight is cravings. Can you understand in terms of yin and yang what you are craving and why?

SheldonRebecca, often tehini or almonds are craved by people not eating enough beans or bean products such as tempeh or tofu or seitan. Think if that is what is happening to you.

RebeccaAhh- this is my newest understandings- the balance of protein to everything- and planning it in.

KlaraMy wish would be that I were so focused that the meal would almost cook itself (like the magic wand) and most important, that I would never run out of new ideas.

GinatKlara, are you looking for magic answers, or are you lazy? (That's ok!)

KlaraNo, I want to work more on focus, then I know things will flow better.

GinatWhat kind of person can be focused--yin or yang?

KlaraYang would be more focused as it's bringing energies inward

GinatAnd what does it take to become yang in this respect?

SheldonRebecca, start planning by making the following list. grain/bean/long cooked veg/short cooked veg (one or two different kinds). Then fill in the missing boxes. Do it at night but not when you are hungry and have to cook in a hurry.

JoannaI sometimes dont eat enough in the morning and lunch because i tend to oversleep, and that limits the time i have to cook, than even with a great dinner i will still be very hungry at night

GinatWhy do you oversleep? Too much yin? Bad habit? Avoidance?...

JoanaI’m not sure, it's been a problem for years

LeighWhen I think what do I really feel like eating, and tune into myself on that day, at that hour- its an approach with more ease

GinatWhat things are you able to get up on time for?

GinatWe have cravings and time management as two issues. What else is difficult?How about social considerations. No problem there?

RebeccaI Summer Conference has been the best thing in my life!

SheldonRebecca, it was the best thing in my life also for a number of years.

GinatHow do you manage social eating? Colin? Millimacro?

LeighI’m cooking for a young person with illness and also cooking for healthy older son and his pregnant wife. I’m cooking all the time- glad too- but it feels like too much

GinatIt's true. We need to find ways to cook AND have a life. Do you have some shortcuts?

Colin LarsenI am confident yet humble about how I eat so as to set a good example with out agitating people

ChickI go out to eat once a week with friends and I eat the fish and veg. on the menu.

GinatI sometimes go to a cafe, order tea, and don't drink it. I just want the social contact.

RebeccaHot water and lemon may be okay for you too

RebeccaMillimacro, yes! And eating mostly a good meal before I go out, and then a little some thing there. I also bring rice/nori rolls and veggies to a great fish place.

Colin LarsenThere are many options that one can choose from on a regular restaurant menu that are good for occasional and festive times

GinatAre there any big problems that really make macrobiotics difficult for you? Or is it all cool?

SheldonEverything depends on your condition as to what to order at a restaurant. When I was very ill, my kids loved eating at Souen restaurant in New York. I took them to enjoy, but ate my own food that I brought from home. Now I have the freedom to enjoy much broader choices.

Colin LarsenMacrobiotics is deeper than the ocean. It can be difficult to accurately interpret a situation and know what to do. The solutions are so many!

GinatDo any of you feel left out of the mainstream? Do you feel different and left out?

GaryThat the social aspects of sharing, even if you don't eat, are its own type of food

SheldonWhen the solutions are many, it is easier to play and not be up tight about every ingredient of each dish on a restaurant menu.

GinatColin, I think each of us knows what to do on some level. It's getting in touch with that and honoring it.

Colin LarsenThat's the deepest, easiest and also the most difficult aspect of macrobiotics

KlaraBig Problems for me: Eating from boredom or emptiness, eating other foods that are around in my home, eating late

ChickI have been macrobiotic for over 25 yrs. and i don't think that eating non-macro once a week is going to kill me.

GinatBack up a sec--what is "non-macro?"

ChickManicotti, for one

SheldonChick: there are no rules, only guidelines. Your best guide is your feelings; if something feels OK and you don't suffer afterwards, enjoy whatever there is.

GinatWhat is non-macro (whatever that means) about manicotti?

ChickIt contains cheese.

GinatChick, is chesse "non-macro?"

ChickYes

GinatIn that case, we are practicing micro-biotics.

SheldonKlara: if you have trouble with eating late, try not eating at all in the mornings. In time you will get used to eating only two meals: then you later binges will be easier to handle.

MillimacroEvery food is macrobiotic - sugar can save your life - we need it sometimes

Leigh|Non-macro is mainstream thinking, without questioning within oneself , willing to accept the cultural standard

GinatOoh, dangerous ground there...

SheldonMillimacro, when can sugar save your life?

RebeccaFor me NOW a stomach ache from cheese is "killing” me—nonmacro would be commercial salt and non-organic veggies !

KlaraWhat works is taking the time to create a wonderful dish and savoring it

GinatWhen do you do this, and how can you encourage it?

ChickWhat is micro-biotics about cheese?

MillimacroA diabetic may need it at a point in time to save their life

GinatIf you exclude cheese, or anything, you are limiting your world. This is not large life, but limited life--micro.

GinatWe eat non-organic all the time. We just don't get enough variety here to sustain us. So we make that choice

RebeccaActually- I typed too fast- there's not enough good organics here all the time either! Bless all our nurishment!

ChickMacrobiotics is about limiting-- limiting what is wrong for our bodies.

MillimacroMacrobiotics is also about doing the best you can

LeighHow about seeing it as macro being a fresh point of view, rather than a response honed by others

GinatYes, that could be. But is thinking in terms of yin and yang must macrobiotics necessarily mean different? It's the most traditional system there is. All peoples do it, knowingly or not.

SheldonChick: macrobiotics is about expanding, not limiting. It is about freedom that comes from understanding balance and working with it within the limits of your condition.

ChickSo then, it's okay to eat meat and dairy and eggs and all the things Michio has said not to eat?

GinatYes, limitation does indeed allow freedom. But it does not define macrobiotics.

Colin LarsenMichio eats those things

GinatIt's okay if that is what you want to create. We are free. Look at Michio's condition--do you want that for yourself?

ChickAnd what is his condition?

GinatMichio recently was diagnosed with colon cancer, and had a major operation. He is free, and created that knowingly. That is macrobiotics, not being a fearful slave.

ChickDoesn't sound good to me.

RebeccaIn July Michio had recovered so well- taught classes and I saw him hurrying around and looking better than before!

KlaraI can take the time to cook when I have the rest of my life not pressuring me to be doing other things - or other interests wanting to come first

GinatWho allows that pressure? Only you, of course. If not, who's life are you living?

RebeccaThe key is to know the right amount and how to balance it, and having it once a month is so different than every day

Colin LarsenBalancing food is a tool that helps us develop insight into the nature of life and existence, including the fact that all health will fail. It's natural

GinatBack to difficulties--any rebels out there, who just don't want to bother with making the effort? What do you do?

Colin LarsenI am by nature a rebel and lazy. I persevere. That is the key to my success

GinatI confess--I'm lazy to garden. It's a weakness. But I want it just not quite enough...

Colin Larsen(Limited) success. I hope I have been sincere. I am sure that what ever I experience, I am attracting it

GinatSheldon's key is relaxing!

Colin LarsenI do plenty of that

LeighMy preference would be to put the attention into sharing cooking, finding a match to that kind of life, rather than getting so very good at it myself

GinatAre you attracting this in your life? You have to be sincere in wanting it.

RebeccaLike sprouts on the counter- it has to be a routine- like menu planning- ahh I need to persevere- thanks, Collin!

KlaraDoes lazy perhaps mean what I value is not what others value??

GinatWhy do you think this, Klara?

KlaraI enjoy being on the computer, so my time goes there - I don't think I'm lazy about cooking, just putting my energies into what I love more.

Colin LarsenI see things as simple, such as when I don't eat enough grain I am more likely to slip on the ice

LeighI have inner conflict having lived both in isolation and in a rural macro community with others

GinatWhat is your conflict then?

Colin LarsenWhat do you mean by isolation?

LeighEnjoying we have wherever we are, doing our best day to day makes for peace. Yet in envisioning, there’s a chance for greater joy, just as I believe macrobiotics is about people not just individuals. When energies are joined in harmony, and macrobiotics allow s a terrific chance for harmony, then we really get our juices flowing. My vision is for small groups living in proximity to share growing food, cooking, talking intimately, evolving macrobiotics through a way of life

Colin LarsenNeed more be said?

GinatYes, we do.

GinatConsider those priorities--you go for what you enjoy more that for what is essential, i.e. cooking.

SheldonEverything is secondary to cooking, as our first priority is eating. When we don't eat right, everything else we do is affected sooner or later.

LeighConflict means being split, sincere in two directions. I’m having trouble getting behind a new direction, the old one being making peace with where you are and at the same time holding a vision for how you’d really like to live

Ginat"I love myself the way I am and I want to change..." Tell us your vision! Does it conflict with making peace?

ChickIn consideration of what we have been talking about today, tell me what eating right is.

GinatAha, fingers are flying! Eating right, of course, means balancing for your condition. How can you determine that? By the way you feel...

Colin LarsenI think that it is more why you eat what you do, not what you eat that is the macrobiotic question.

ChickAfter you determine how you feel, what do you eat?

SheldonEating right cannot be easily defined. It includes consideration of climate, condition, mood, understanding, desire to maintain balance. There is no magical answer. I can feel its meaning easier than I can express it.

RebeccaAfter cooking and eating carefully for a while you may love feeling so well- you'll want to get a timer to buzz you back into the kitchen for a while

GinatI personally enjoy feeling well, so I eat things that support that. For me, it means that I stay pretty macro-centered and don't stray much. It just doesn't tempt me to go "off." Does that help?

ChickLet us speak in specifics, not high-flown phrases.

Colin LarsenIt is not quantifiable, so we have guidelines to help us learn

GinatI have rice at almost every meal.

GinatI never touch: dairy, sugar, meat, even bread!

GinatI have dessert almost daily, chew my food, and make condiments and pickles.

ChickBut you said manicotti was okay, yet that is dairy.

GinatI didn't say it's okay for me. I said that everything is macrobiotic.

ChickThere are foods that aren't macrobiotic, or else there wouldn't be all the books written about them.

GinatNo, Chick. There are foods that are recommended for daily use, occasional use, and to avoid for improved health. Everything, by definition, is macrobiotic.

GinatWe still have five minutes....write out your favorite grips. What's hard? What's stopping you and holding you back? Where are you resistant?

RebeccaI am still somehow resistant to menu planning -

GinatBecause...

RebeccaSpontaneity has always been my way!

GinatDoes it work for you?

RebeccaOnly partially, cause I tend to miss the pickles or sea greens some days- for me that makes a difference

SheldonY'all need to distinguish between rules and guidelines. Rules are made to be broken; guidelines are always OK and don't need to be monitored.

GinatLet's each determine one step that we want to take, and try it out this week. Everybody make a wish...!

ChickThank you Sheldon for the butter substitute. I can do that.

GinatYou're great, Chick. Who else has a resolution?

RebeccaWe'll see about menus here in CT

ChickAu revoir, Ginat.

RebeccaThank you Ginat and everyone!

GaryThank you Ginat and Shledon for sharing all your wisdom with us!

GinatThanks to you all! Come back next week to chat, and next month for the next time together with me. Good night!

Linda Just a Hello and Good Bye from the Pacific Macrobiotic Conference (PMC) in San Francisco; see you at the next chat

Ginat Great to hear from you! All my love and best regards to you all!

Ginat So let's go on. What is difficult about food for you?

Bob I have a condition that's keeps me rather careful about snacking. And yes, suits my personality

Jana Can you elaborate please, Ginat?

Ginat Yes. Do you have cravings? Do you eat something and then regret it? Do you "binge" (so-called. What'sgoing on?

Bob I like too many yin foods.

Ginat What does this mean? And do you know why?

Ginat Attraction to yin foods means what--that you are too yin, or too yang? Do you know? Tell me about yourself. Are you a big person or small? Do you like physical activities or more mental? What's your favorite food?

Bob My guess is that I'm too yin

Jana I postpone eating until I have time to prepare food -- then I get so hungry, I binge.

Ginat What suggestions can anyone give here? I have some ideas that work for me...

Jana Too yang, I believe

Bob I'm tall and thin, and I'm a pianist so I've spent a good deal of my time sitting at the piano, more mental activity.

Jana As for me, I am average height, 50 lbs too much -- like mental activities better, but if I was a better weight, I'd probably like more physical activities than I do now

Ginat OK, good descriptions. Both Bob and Jana sound more on the yin side. Bob craves yin. So is he balanced, or un-? What could help him?

Ginat Any cancer can be either yin or yang. For example, breast cancer can be yan. So we need to look further into it. Tell us more about your habits, likes and dislikes, food patterns, etc.

Bob I've adopted a fairly rigid Macrobiotic diet, but I've been a vegetarian for years. I do like yin, chocolate, maple syrup and such but I've cut them out of my diet.

Ginat When you use the word "rigid" it sets off alarms in my mind. Are you managing on will power? How do you control your cravings? Anyone else on will power and cravings control?

Bob That is a problem. I don't have any cravings in general other than I'm hungry a lot. I am under the guidance of a macrobiotic counselor.

Ginat I'm glad you have a counselor. I hope you feel good with each other. Hunger is a sign of wanting yin. How do you get good quality yin foods?

Bob I do snack on pumpkin and sunflower seeds, apple butter, apples…

Jana That does not work, I find. The macro foods are filling so that, if you have the time for regular meals, you should never be hungry.

Ginat Is this the case for you--are you sometimes hungry, or unsatisfied?

Vana It seems to have much to do with balance in daily life , activities, and lifestyle in an inclusive way, and how it is gone about.

Ginat Yes, Vana, I agree--"macro" biotics definitely includes our life style as a whole, our thinking and point of view. How do you stay relaxed and centered?

Bob I don't know. I enjoy sweet vegetables a lot and I enjoy macrobiotic cooking and the results.

Ginat Where do you fall off?

Bob I'm satisfied after a meal, but I soon become hungry again, maybe in an hour or so.

Ginat Ah, this is a good hint. Can you give us a typical meal? How much grain? How much beans? Are you a chewer--50x per mouthful?

Jana With me, it's definitely the time factor that’s difficult.

Ginat How do you manage when you do it well, Jana

Jana Actually - it's more like having too little time to cook.

Vana When I am relaxed and centered I give myself a lot--morning stretching, bathing or body scrub, meditation, walk, even more. It takes a lot of finding a routine for myself.

Ginat There was a question before about being too hungry to cook....in those times I prepare a dish of noodles in broth, and then I continue to cook after I eat it. It calms me down and lets me relax into the rest of the cooking. Having a routine definitely helps, and being flexible with it is important.

Ginat When you are not relaxed and centered, do you have less time, Vana, or does it just seem like it?

Bob I don't really fall off except I'm probably eating too many seeds. I'm eating about the right portions and chew well. I do eat beans, 3 or 4 times a week. My counselor says to eat more protein, tofu, tempeh, etc.

Ginat My first impression is that you may need more proteins, like beans and bean products. We eat them 2x a day, one at lunch, the other at dinner. If you are craving seeds, it could means lack of protein or oil. Beans often help with this.

Bob Is there a problem with snacking in general?

Ginat The way to know whether any activity serves you well is what it signifies. Snacking means you’re too yang--you're looking for ways to expand and relax. If you are truly free, you can snack, and you can not snack, and feel good either way.

Bob Does being hungry mean that one is too yang?

Ginat Yes, being hungry means one is yang (sometimes too much so, sometimes naturally so). SVD, sweet vegetable drink, is an excellent way to balance cravings, relax and get centered. It's everyone's best remedy.

LA Hello, Ginat, It's not on the topic you are on now, but I have been cooking macrobiotically for a long time. I still wonder whether to rinse rice or not. I buy bulk from bins, so feel it needs rinsing, but does that or does that not lower vitamin content? If that is too off topic, no problem. Just throwing that out there. Thanks, LouAnn

Ginat Fine question, LouAnn. I always rinse rice. Vitamins do not disappear with washing. The rice tastes much better when it is not dirty!

Ginat What foods help with fatigue and exhaustion?

Vana Sweet Vegetable Juice

Ginat We can also deal with fatigue by chewing well, eating less (!) and, yes, resting.

Bob Can you describe the sweet vegetable

Ginat SVD is a combination of 4 specific vegetables, cooked in boiling water in this order--onion, carrot, squash and cabbage. 1/4 cup each in 4 cups of water, no salt. Cook it covered for 30 minutes, strain and drink warm. You can make enough for about 3 days.

Ginat Who has dreams? Do you see a connection to what you've eaten? Anyone dream they are flying? Any dreamers out there?

gxpark1234 I have crazy dreams, and i think i am sanpaku

CPB Does a dream that reoccurs that involves an unsual house with secret rooms always near water have anything to do with what one eats?

Ginat Wow! What's your own take on it? Everything has to do with food.

LA I dream I'm flying very often. What does that mean?

Ginat Aha! Flying means too much fruit, too yin. You're up in the clouds! Come back down to earth! Anyone have dreams that they are falling? That would be a yang symptom.

Bob Thanks, Ginat. You've been very helpful. I'm signing off. Bob

Ginat What about you working stiffs? How do you 9 to 5'ers manage with slow-food preparation? What are your best tips?

CPB Food preparation is difficult when work keeps you away from a kitchen for at least 10 hours a day. That is why eating properly can be a real challenge. I have not figured out how to deal with it yet.

Jana I'm not managing well ... I'm good for about a week, then fall back into "easy" mode.

Ginat Let's think how to make Easy = Good and handle work demands. They are real, whether it’s a job or children, or life in general. One idea is to cook once a day for two meals, then make something quick to supplement the second meal. Cook enough grain for 24 hours, enough beans for 3 meals, long-cooked veggies for two meals, and a fresh veg at every meal. Remember to make desserts. They are essential!

Vana What kind of desserts?

Ginat Dessert by definition means something relaxing. So soft and creamy is best; never hard and crunchy--that is not a dessert. We love amasake, kanten, chestnuts, compote.....what other favorites are there out there?

Joana Sometimes it takes me two hours to prepare lunch, and I do it together with my sister. I don't know how we can be so slow preparing food; its like we don't even realize that time elapses so fast.

Ginat Sometimes meal preparation can be long and involved, and sometimes short and sweet. This is flexibility.

CPB How do you make food that you can carry to work for your lunch that does not have to be heated up or prepared in some way that would not be available at work?

Ginat I find no need to heat up food, even in the winter. Room temperature is fine. I don't eat it-refrigerator cold. We make lunches to go whenever we need to, putting an entire meal in a lunch box and packing it up with our chopsticks. We are macros on the go, any time, any where.

Vana OK, good plan

Ginat How about....gas? Everyone ok on that end?

Joana One question

Ginat Yes, Joana?

Joana Besides rice syrup and barley malt, what other grain syrups are good for making desserts? It seems that they have run out here in Lisbon. I have been waiting for 2 weeks without cooking desserts.

Ginat Those are the two grain syrups I use most. I also use fruit juices often, or eat fruit cooked with a pinch of salt. You have good quality North Atlantic sea salt in Lisbon!

Jana Stewed apples are helpful.

Joana Yes I make apple sauce because that does not need to be sweetened.

Ginat How about late night snacking? Who does it, when and why? How do you feel with it? About it?

Joana Lately I’ve been feeling hungry at night so I snack. For me the reason is that i have been waking up late in the morning...

Ginat Better not to snack--it helps you stay up late. Better to listen to your body and sleep when it's tired. Staying up late makes you yang, and that's why you want to eat. It's a non-natural cycle.

Jana I always grab the wrong, but easy thing -- and load up like there's no tomorrow

Ginat Jana, there is always a tomorrow. That's number one. Remember that you know this. Then look for a good quality food. Prepare it in advance so you won't get caught. Most of all, make a choice about what you want, how you want to live, what you want for your life.

Jana Interesting, I didn't know that, Ginat.

CPB I just read an interesting article addressing an idea that many long time macrobiotic eaters are eating too close. The suggestion is that fish, foul, yogurt and certain cheese be added to the diet on a regular basis. Any thoughts on this?

Ginat By “close” do you mean too narrow? I find that variety is perhaps the #1 most important factor in being a satisfied macro (or any other person!) I do not find that foul, yogurt or cheese serve me. They mess up my health, and don't give me anything. They are too extreme to easily balance. I get variety from cooking styles, food choices, cutting techniques, ingredients ...

gxpark1234 Ms. Rice, I have a question. About 2 years ago while I was smoking marijuana and thinking very hard about money, my right eye started to make subtle cracking noises; then my left eye started to make the same type of noise.. I later looked in the mirror and noticed my right eye had been pulled up and was bigger/expanded while my left eye got shifted down. Doctors aren’t able to help me. I feel so imbalanced. Any advice?

Ginat Gxpark1234, your condition is clearly too yin, as you know from the mind-expanding "food" you were taking. Your body is responding rather naturally to it with a yin discharge. Make sense?

gxpark1234 I think so..

Ginat Right side--more upward flowing energy; left side, more downward. This is natural, universal, and unknown to doctors. We need to teach them.

gxpark1234 How can I fix this imbalance with my eyes? More yang foods or a balanced diet?

Ginat You need to become more centered, which for you would be balance. Stay close to the center with food, thought, activity...

gxpark1234 Ginat, do you think this is curable? Will I become balanced again.. sorry for all the questions but it’s destroyed my life.

Ginat Gx--everything is curable, because everything changes. It's easy to become balanced--it requires a decision, and then some knowledge. You can do it!

gxpark1234 Thank u Ginat, do u have a personal website or consultation service for a more detailed advice and help on my condition? An email perhaps?

Ginat Gx--Everyone can always write me with any questions. My email is Shelgin@netvision.net.il.

gxpark1234 Great.. thank u

Vana Give the marijuana a rest for your best interest. It takes a long time to release the THC from the herb to get it out of the brain.

gxpark1234 I’ve quit over 1 year ago.

Vana What helps a frail long time sick person with no contractive power to eliminate? I’m cooking for an ill person; she eats only good quality food but has declined and doesn’t digest

Ginat Vana, that person need some good quality food, and perhaps some umeshokuzu. What is he holding on to in his thoughts? Does he have the spiritual power to eliminate it? An older person may need softer cooked rice cream, and umeshokuzu to get her strength back.

Ginat OK, the most yang person is the one who is first to answer. How do you manage to eat out and stay well?

Jana Eating out is tough, unless your dining partner is on board with your choice of restaurants/foods

LA Ginat, my problem eating out is, even thought I can get good macrobiotic-type food, at restaurants such as Pei Wei--brown rice, veggies with tofu--it always is so, so salty, even if I ask for less salty. I need to eat out pretty often, but it is hard to get good macrobiotic-type food anywhere. Any suggestions?

Ginat Do you need to eat out for work? Socially? For convenience? There is always a better way if you look for it. Can you bring your own rice with you?

Jana Good Earth is good for whole foods.

Ginat Yet there's nothing like home cooking.

CPB We eat regularly at an Asian Place that now carries brown rice on the menu. All it took was asking them to do it and they were glad to make it happen.

Ginat Any other comments, or shall we say good night? I don't know what time it is in Australia, but Klara knows that it's 11:18 here in Israel.

Klara I’m just barely keeping my eyes open.

Jana Thank you, Ginat -- hope to chat with you again in the near future.

CPB Thank you for the chat as I have learned plenty and it is so nice to share ideas.

Gary Thanks so much for the wonderful and helpful chat Ginat!

Joana Good night , and thanks Ginat.

Klara You didn't go further about gas…

Ginat Guess we'll have to hold back on this one till next time!

Jana Nice to have fellow macrobiotic'ers to chat with

Ginat Good night everyone, and a million thanks. It's great fun being together this way! Let's do it again next month, and meanwhile enjoy your chats next week.

Many people understand that macrobiotics is the best way to live, yet they have difficulty following through. Of course it is natural for us all to go in waves of stronger and weaker practice, but is there some underlying quality that one needs to truly stay consistent? And how much is enough? Is there a bottom line that we dare not cross?

Chat with Ginat Rice at CyberMacro Sunday April 30, 2006.

GinatWelcome to the Sunday chat! Today's topic is: What does it take to "be macrobiotic?" Many people understand that macrobiotics is the best way to live, but they don't follow through with it. Why is that? What is required to truly embrace macrobiotics?

CharlesUnderstanding, I suppose

GinatLet's begin by making it personal. Can you tell us your experience, Chas, when you say "understanding." Do feel like you understand enough to embrace macrobiotics?

CharlesNo, I've tried to balance with veggies and grains but the balance is too narrow.

CharlesI develop cravings for sweets.

GaryJust a quick comment

CharlesOK

GinatSo then, Chas, do you have a question?

GinatAnd I would ask yet another question--is understanding the key to a good practice for you? ...anyone?

GpUnderstanding is always a good key element but doesn't understanding come with experience?

CharlesIt seems the conventional diet of animal products and yin foods is easier to stay on

GinatAre you asking a question here?

CharlesI am curious why that seems to be the case for me.

GpI was replying to your question.

DizzyI've read and have several books on MB but just don't quite understand how to start. It is too much to just dive in and do it all, I've tried that. How do you get started?

GinatI agree that it's too hard to dive into deep waters. The most important foods to begin with are brown rice and miso soup. All the rest can, and should wait. If you start too fast, you'll finish quickly too.

GinatGP and Chas--are you asking specific "how to" questions, or answering my philosophical pondering of whether knowledge is the key to macrobiotic practice?

KlaraI have two kinds of understandings. Intellectually I think I understand, but I don't feel my body actually does. Otherwise I don't think I would eat the way I do.

GinatVery good. This means that you don't truly, or totally, understand. Why do you think this is?

CharlesI've read some books and practiced but I failed to curb cravings

ChasI think I may not understand how yin-yang works with acid-alkaline

GinatAnd why is that important to you? What will that knowledge bring you? What happens if you don't know that?

GpGinat...I did ask a specific question which I submitted through the ask line to the moderator....I was commenting on your understanding question and put a couple of question marks on the end seeing if you would agree

ReeljAn effective way to begin the macrobiotic diet is to eliminate refined sugar and dairy right off the bat. yes, cravings will come as a result, but you will no longer be reaching for those foods to satisfy them.

GinatWe can talk about all these practical issues, like cravings, beginning practice, etc.....but you're not answering my question. What is necessary in order to practice macrobiotics? Hold on, GP....

DizzyUnderstanding, Yes. But how do you get started?

GinatHow have you started so far?

ReeljSupport

GpA desire to live more in tune with one's environment

Snoopybd7Sacrifice is probably very important to determine whether one can stick with macro

KlaraScratch that. I meant the coordination between my head and my body. As I eat, I am not fully aware of what the consequences really will be.

GinatBut why is that? Reflect on this a moment......why aren't you in touch with yourself?

GinatWhoa, sacrifice! Comments out there?

ReeljYes...

ReeljSacrifice in the short run...

Snoopybd7No, in the long run too

ReeljBut closing one door opens many others

GpI'm trying to get remotivated. I followed the macro cuisine pretty good for about a year and then due to some unfortunate events I got off track and seem to have real trouble getting going again...any suggestions?

GinatLet's get some general feedback. What is hindering you Gp?

Snoopybd7That’s true too

DizzyI am also diabetic and wonder if the MB way of eating will have too many starches for this problem?

GinatLet's put this on our "practical questions" list for later. Don't forget it, but hold on to it for the moment.

CharlesIf a practice is genuine then it should be easy to follow

Veganmacrochickdo you think with others around you eating the same way it's easier to curb cravings and eat 'better'?

GinatWhat do you mean by a genuine practice?

CharlesValid biologically

GpI wish I knew the answer. I felt so good eating correctly and chewing completely but I got off track and seem to have a hard time moving forward again. I might would be easier with support. Coming here is also a step towards motivating me.

Ginat"Valid biologically." Raw foodists say that they are biologically valid. Are you satisfied with this level of judgment?

CharlesA lot of groups make claims, I don't know who is right anymore

ReeljRegarding the nature of "sacrifice," as a single parent, spending hours in the kitchen meant "sacrificing" hours I might have spent on other endeavors for the headaches, stomach aches, earaches and emotional swings my daughter would have otherwise experienced. So "sacrifice" is a bit of an illusion.

veganmacrochickIt's not sacrifice if you know you are healing. It's not sacrifice to know the next day you won't feel lousy. I mentioned recently in my group that I prefer (usually) the delayed need gratification.

GinatYes, but.....what about the day when you are so-called "healed." Is that the goal of macrobiotics, making it worth the "struggle."

GpIsn't it more about what's right for you? (sorry the counselor in me makes me hand you back the question)

KlaraI don't see an immediate change, reaction, neither good nor bad. I do believe food takes a while to have effect, and I need to continue on blind faith, which takes well, faith, and sometimes it's just easier to eat what's handy.

GinatSo now we are getting a bit deeper. What is the role of faith, or belief, in adopting macrobiotics?

ReeljI think the word is intuition, and it is there from the start

Snoopybd7For people who are new to macrobiotic, it is a huge sacrifice that most don’t seem willing to take

GinatI still come back to my original questions--what is the bottom line that determines whether or not we follow a macrobiotic lifestyle?

CharlesRight, intuition or God's grace is the source of knowing what's right

ReeljIn Swedenborg's writing, "faith" is the internal acknowledgment of truth, not something you simply hope for... a recognition that something is right.

GinatBravo! Bravo! Now tell me how Swendenborg applies to you personally!

GpThink of it more as re-education than sacrifice. Just like learning a new job or skill...you'd spend the time to learn these things because of the payoff.

Snoopybd7I think someone that can embrace the philosophy and incorporate it in their life would determine if they would follow the diet

VeganmacrochickI'm confused Reelj are you saying spending time cooking well cause mood swings in your child? I am a single mom and my daughter LOVES being in the kitchen helping me cook, snacking on the seaweed, etc

ReeljFrom my point of view, macrobiotic principles are eternal natural laws... patterns of behavior that govern life, and we are not able to live OUTSIDE those laws... we are not able to violate those laws. When we live contrary to them, those very laws violate US.

ReeljJust the opposite. BECAUSE I cook, I eliminate the mood swings, the head aches, etc.

GinatWhat does it take to embrace the philosophy and incorporate it into your life style? I continue to ask....

Snoopybd7You would need to throw out your old way of life and have a new one

GinatYes, snoopy. What does it take to throw out the old and make a change like this?

ReeljWhat does it take to embrace it? Experience with it. One embraces things in time, through positive experience.

CharlesWe shouldn't resist something that is beneficial

Snoopybd7It takes an inspiration of some sort, it could be going to a cooking class and tasting the food, hearing a lecture, or having a serious illness

GpWe resist because we have grown up knowing something different....those principles are ingrained in us and the natural laws are foreign to what we were taught...someone who grew up with MB as a value and principle would not resist

GinatIs this your personal experience? The way you say it, it sounds easy. Yet we do resist. WHY do you (I) personally resist? How do we maintain being inspired. Do you really think a born-macrobiotic person doesn't resist? Ho ho.

Snoopybd7Most people are not used to being so conscious about food and environment. They just eat and enjoy

VeganmacrochickOK What about family members who don't get it and don't understand that you will be upset if they give your child "just a tiny piece of chocolate" with dairy and sugar too when you're vegan?

GpNothing easy about it at all. I'm not sure why'd you resist without knowing more about you. Let's say it would be easier for someone growing up in an MB environment to resist...but there are always forces pulling us one way or the other

Ginat(Let's go back to the "ask" window please) Yes, many of us just eat and enjoy. What level of consciousness is this?

GpUnconscious consciousness

Snoopybd7The ignorant level? which can be bliss it seems

KlaraWe've talked about this before - it takes MAKING the decision - yet it seems to me it's a decision that I need to make again and again. Could it be then that I haven't truly made the decision???

GinatHat's off, Klara. This is what I'm digging for here. It takes making (and remaking) a decision. What do you think about your question?

GinatEat and enjoy is a sensorial level of living. How can we raise that level?

ReeljYou don't raise it; it is one of many levels you incorporate into your life

Snoopybd7I am not sure. People seem to be so comfortable in that place that they wouldn’t want to leave it

GpBy making a conscious effort to make the decision to eat well. Your question seems to say there can't be both healthy MB eating and sensorial pleasure....are you suggesting that it should be different?

KlaraPerhaps I've only made the decision for one meal, or one day, instead of making it for a longer time period

GinatCan you extend it for a day? People feel comfortable in an easy place until it's not easy any more, and they must change. But we can choose to raise our level to an intellectual, or maybe social, understanding, and then make a new decision.

GinatHealthy and sensorial are one and the same for me. I'm saying that only sensorial is not enough.

GinatWho here can say that s/he has made a decision to embrace a macrobiotic way of life?

Snoopybd7People who eat regular food are not as sensorial about food so they can't appreciate the taste of natural foods

CharlesI haven't embraced the full spectrum of macrobiotics just the healthful food part

GpEmbracing the diet is one thing. I've embraced the diet and understand it's best for me. But still I struggle with it....there is lot's to MB besides diet though that I have not embraced

GinatThank you for that answer, Chas. Are you fine with where you are right now, with just the food and not the ideas behind it? What is your struggle, Gp? Why do you hesitate?

Snoopybd7I feel that I live a macro life, partly because I live in a macro family, and also because I don’t think much about being macro, I just am. I just eat like its normal

VeganmacrochickThough that's what American diet especially in restaurants promote right?

GpThe struggle is just getting started and sticking with it again.

CharlesI haven't had full success with the food part yet. When or if I do then I'll progress to the next step because it's been validated to me through the food

GpThis is helping!

GpThat was my point with my statement earlier snoopy

VeganmacrochickI'm not sure at what level. I feel I have made an attempt to embrace macrobiotics. I soak my grains and beans, eat my seaweeds, I try to alternate foods, get fresh air, enjoy my healthy food, sit with a happy environment and eating peacefully with my daughter. I lovingly cut my veggies, and make my meals. But then eat pretzels or something so am I missing something? am I not macrobiotic?

GinatBeautiful description--thank you so much. Whether or not you "are" macro is another, big question that we'll postpone for the moment. What are you missing? --both understanding and application. We need both. That's the answer.

GinatWhat is the struggle, Gp?

Snoopybd7I think you need to get to a point where you don’t have to make a decision about being macro, you just are. Just like how people eat regular food like burgers, they just eat it, no thinking

GpThe struggle is making the decision and commitment to make it a part of life rather than part time

GpAnd to think I was just going to watch and learn.

VeganmacrochickSo what understanding and application?

GinatThe understanding is learning the natural order. The application is making a decision that this is how I want to live. Then we create support, we create habits, we create what we want...if we've really decided that we want it.

GinatI'm fishing for a specific activity that let's us be inspired. It's not outside ourselves...

GpOur desire takes us to those places where we create habits and create what we want

DizzyHow do you create the support when your spouse and all your friends aren't MB?

GinatNice, Gp. Is this your experience?

Snoopybd7I would like to know that too

Gp|I have experienced that but not with MB however.

GpI know there are a couple groups locally that would be good to get involved in for that support

GinatSo, Gp, you haven't quite made a decision yet, as I understand. Out side support is nice and fine, but it takes something else. What is that?

GinatKlara has already told us.

GpThe more committed embracement?

ChickMake the decision to be macrobiotic one day at a time.

GinatYes, commitment, in the form of a decision, and, the biggest tool--self-reflection. This is the way to stay committed, to stay inspired, to keep the decision alive.

GpThe baby steps approach?

Snoopybd7Until you just are macro, and you don’t have to decide anymore

KlaraAha, to be consistent means to create the habit - which also means having it always first on my mind, before other automatic things that I do

GinatMaybe in a way we constantly are deciding.

GpThat's where I struggle right now Klara

GpVery true Ginat

Snoopybd7How about having only macro ingredients and foods in the home?

GinatIt's natural for all cycles to ebb and wane...to go up and down. Is there a bottom line you will not cross? Maybe this is one--only macro ingredients. Yet that's somewhat of a crutch....

GpWhen I first did MB diet it was easy to remain conscious about chewing, food etc....now when I try I forget...e.g. just remembering to chew...I start out well...but before I know it my mind has gone somewhere else

VeganmacrochickAs having stuff prepared so when you get starving all of a sudden you don't just inhale some junk

GinatVery good..

Snoopybd7There seems to be a problem with having too much rules to follow and becoming overwhelmed

GinatFood is so primal, that we have to create our food habits on the deepest level, truly reflecting on the source of our resistance.

Snoopybd7Being too rigid having to follow exactly what the book says

GinatThese are very important issues here, about rules and rigidity. Such a practice is doomed to fail. Nothing is more important to a human than freedom, and that actually is the ultimate goal of macrobiotics.

Snoopybd7But it seems to be a hindrance for many, the rigidity

GinatPerhaps we should finish today by sharing some reflections about how any of us have seen / understood / experienced freedom through a macrobiotic way of life.

GpI didn't find it all that strict really...unless you look at a healing diet which can be rigid

VeganmacrochickI try to remember to always have cooked rice on hand

VeganmacrochickRight when people say to me "you're not allowed to eat that" I say I'm allowed to eat anything, I choose to not eat...........

Snoopybd7Exactly

GpYes, it's all about choices

GinatOne sees a healing diet as rigid, another as precise and a gift....choices, indeed

GpYep

GinatWhere is the freedom in macrobiotics?

CharlesFreedom from sickness

GinatFreedom to choose sickness. Freedom to heal sickness.

Snoopybd7I see that in macrobiotics, I am free to move in any direction, towards health, sickness, towards yin or yang, its about playing with life

GpMB people still get sick....they just recover better and faster so I hear

GpSo the freedom is in the choices?

GinatChoices, again. Macrobiotics is the rule book for life. Do you agree? We do what we like with it. That's the freedom.

CharlesThat's a neat definition

Snoopybd7Yet many macros don’t practice like they are free

GinatFriends, we are powerful creators, physicalized images of all Creation. What joy! Many "macrobiotic" friends sometimes forget this, and get stuck in food issues. Let's clarify our goals, uncover our resistance, and make active choices on-going. Everything is a game. We all have a good time.

GpThanks to all of you today for allowing me to chat with you and for the inspiration I've received here

Snoopybd7Now you can go and choose the direction you want

GinatIt's a love fest! That is the true reality. See you all next Sunday on line, and in one month for my next time to moderate. Keep chewing--your grains and your experiences!

VeganmacrochickI think it's all around

VeganmacrochickYou mean if we're macrobiotic we get sick too? ::wink

KlaraFreedom - that I choose my life as I decide

GinatA big om-shalom for all of us! Happy trails!

Snoopybd7Thank you

GaryThanks, Ginat

GinatThank you so much, Gary!

“We need to embrace the simple truth that most people eat according to ingrained emotional and sexual patterns. No matter how much nutrition a doctor knows or how much yin-yang cosmology a macrobiotic practitioner recognizes, these can be overruled by these deep primal compulsions.

In our first days of life we were given protection, warmth, love and food. Whenever protection, warmth or love is missing, we will turn to food primal security. Frustrated or over-charged sexual powers can overwhelm the logical mind. The chocolate industry is one of the main beneficiaries of this. These lifetime food habits are often difficult to see accurately, or we may even be totally blind to them, which can lead to addictive behavior.” --Phiya

People sometimes say they are "80%" macrobiotic, or "90%." What does this mean? Some say, "Oh, I went off macrobiotics because I had ice cream (or whatever)." I have also heard people say, "Macrobiotics is too extreme." Is such a balanced diet extreme? When is someone "macrobiotic" and when not?

GinatGood evening, everyone. Welcome to MacroChat #2 with me, Ginat Rice. We have a great topic today. Are you ready?

SheldonAre there macrobiotic foods? If not, then a macro person cannot be classified by what they eat.

GinatGood; Are there, indeed, macrobiotic foods?

NicoleHi everyone - I am new to this so bear with me

KlaraThe purpose of a macrobiotic lifestyle is understanding how food affects life, and also how everything else affects life.

GinatBut what is the purpose of that, Klara? Welcome, Nicole, and everyone else.

ChickI think there are macrobiotic foods. The same as there are SAD foods.

SheldonRice, beans and vegetables can hardly be classified as macrobiotic; if that is the case, food classification requires another means of measurement or understanding.

NicoleI don't believe that there are macrobiotic foods - rather there are macrobiotic principles that govern all foods.

ChickFoods are macrobiotic in the sense of how we, as macrobiotics, use them in our diet.

VicTricky, indeed. I have considered myself to be living a macrobiotic lifestyle for 30 years -- does "being macrobiotic" mean I can get a disease like osteoporosis??? I have never "counted my milligrams" of calcium, I never thought about "absorbable calcium" and now I am humbled, and I sit here with a glass of organic milk and rice cakes! I don't know if there are folks out there age 50 something dealing with any osteoporosis issues?

GinatThis is an important question...we touched on it last week, and it will continue to be relevant forever onwards. Why do "macrobiotic people” get sick? And again, what does it mean, then, to "be macrobiotic?"

SheldonI know a lot of people who eat brown rice but never heard of macrobiotics. Furthermore, why can't I eat so called non-macro foods and still be macro?

ChickWhat do you consider non macro foods?

GinatLet's deal with one question at a time. First, what is the purpose of macrobiotics? Then, is there such a thing as "macrobiotic food?"

NicoleFor me – macrobiotics means WHAT IS NECESSARY- how can such a definition exclude or include any particular food type?

GinatNicole, for what purpose do you practice "what is necessary"?

NicoleFOR HEALTH

GinatThen health is your highest goal?

ChickYES

NicoleNot at all - but it is a prerequisite for attaining certain other goals

SheldonI don't believe there are non-macro foods. Sometimes I eat widely, and then try to balance it with wide opposites. If I continue to do this all the time it will affect my health. If I want to maintain a good condition, I need to moderate eating inside a relatively narrow range of yin and yang foods.

KlaraFor me, macrobiotics is an adventure in discovery - a consciousness of the interplay of food and life

GinatAgain, for what purpose?

GinatYes, Nicole, can you elaborate further on your bigger dream? Why do you want to be a pure receptacle?

Nicole*Smile* --- it's not a case of want. Its is a case of purpose - only if we are pure can we begin to help others.

GinatGot it! Agreed! We've just raised our level of consciousness to the fifth level, social judgment. Is there an even higher purpose of a macrobiotic way of life?

NicoleSuper consciousness is not on a higher level than social consciousness --- but we need social consciousness to maintain super-consciousness

SheldonGenerally, health is my highest goal, but not always. Sometimes I push myself beyond my normal range of foods for social, emotional or other reasons. With the experience that I have accumulated, I generally do not do this too often or too extremely.

KlaraMy goal is to get to a life full of joy, peace, fullness

SheldonWhat is joy, if not having the health to make wider choices, when desired, without having a serious reaction that follows.

GinatDon't get caught in semantics of better or worse. They are simply levels of being, Nicole. Let's focus once more on who is macrobiotic. Does it matter what one chooses to eat?

NicoleYes

GinatThen is macrobiotics defined by our diet?

KlaraTo me joy is getting to see a bigger picture. Understanding more

GinatYes—raising your level of understanding. Where does macrobiotics fit in with this?

Klarait very much matters what one chooses to eat, especially how it affects him/her

SheldonWe have free choice to choose whatever foods we want. What we need are tools to make these choices, and moderate them so that balance can be created and maintained.

GinatLet's be specific. WHO IS MACROBIOTIC? And what for?

NicoleThe important word being CHOOSES – macrobiotic food choices are obviously made with specific intent --- taking just one principle - compassion - we would choose foods which do not harm the environment, the ecology and the body......

SheldonThat may be more or less of a problem depending on the person's condition and constitution.

GinatGood. Now we're getting somewhere. Nicole talks about the intent of our food. Klara knows that food affects us. So then, is macrobiotics about food choices rather than about specific foods?

NicoleI can't see where you can separate the two.

GinatGood, Chick. The question is this: does macrobiotics mean eating brown rice, or does it mean recognizing the effect of brown rice and making a choice?

Leslie AshburnTo me, someone who is macrobiotic is someone who applies macrobiotic principles to his/her life, not just with diet, but also thinking about one's environment in general

Leslie AshburnIt's about consciously choosing, so I would say, 'food choices' not specific foods

KlaraThis feels abstract, but I'm guessing everybody is macrobiotic, they just don't realize it - that is, all bodies try to come to some kind of balance. I think the crux is the realization and how to do it on purpose when someone can call himself macro.

NicoleMmm - it means thinking about the implications of eating brown rice and therefore - about HOW the brown rice is eaten

LindaMacrobiotic is about LIFE CHOICES

GinatYes, of course. But please be a bit more specific. Explain your idea, s'il vous plait.

SheldonKlara, I like what you say about doing it on purpose. In other words, making a conscious choice

SheldonI believe that a macrobiotic person is one that makes conscious choices based on the order of the universe according to yin and yang to achieve balance. I use the word conscious to differentiate between those who eat within macrobiotic guidelines because of their culture and those that do so because of what they have learned and understand.

GinatThis is interesting. Is the bushman in New Guinea macrobiotic? Is everyone macrobiotic?

LeslieEveryone seeks balance, but does everyone seek that balance consciously and intentionally? Perhaps that is the difference?

GinatNice, Leslie. Then are you saying that macrobiotics is the conscious choice of food, activity, etc? Is the bushman not macrobiotic?

LeslieIt's just a fact of yin and yang. day turns to night, activity to rest... it's unavoidable. The bushman is not conscious of the fact, but yes, he is macrobiotic.

Klara|Doesn't one need to experience it first before one can recognize the effect and then make the choice

GinatExperience is one way to learn. There are others....

ChickHow does one seek balance? I don't understand that.

SheldonUnderstanding yin and yang is so simple; applying it takes a lifetime of experience that improves more and more as time goes on.

SheldonThe bushman is not macrobiotic. He eats what is available to him. In a different environment he would eat what is available there without understanding that his new choices will not maintain his health.

LeslieI think everyone is macrobiotic. We are all responsible for the outcome of our health.

LeslieSheldon, macrobiotic eating is locally, in season -- so why is the bushman not macro? He's in tune with nature around him/her

LindaProbably the bush person is macrobiotic since they are living in harmony with their environment

GinatHere's a new question. Is the goal of macrobiotics to live a long life?

KlaraNow we're going back to whether health is the main purpose. I think it's one object, but may not be the only one.

ChickIt should help.

KlaraYou asked if experience is the only way to learn. I believe we also learn from copying others, like our parents and our peers, in what we eat.

GinatIs that learning? or copying?

SheldonThe bushman is doing what comes naturally with being a bushman. If what he eats maintains his health that is OK. But he doesn't have any awareness of principles of balance; put him in a different environment and will he still be macrobiotic. Of course not.

LeslieI think macrobiotics means to live in the present, to be happy in the moment, and to create a strong consciousness, and not necessarily to live a long life. A long life might be a natural byproduct of living a healthy lifestyle and eating a healthy diet

LeslieI think the bushman would have strong knowledge of balance, but not defined in the words we use

GinatIf someone gets ill, meaning their application of yin and yang is off, are they "macrobiotic?

LeslieYes, they are macrobiotic, but there is still an imbalance occurring

ChickI should think a long life would be a by product of a healthy life style.

LindaFor me the answer is NO about the length of life; the goal is to live a good quality life with a purpose

SheldonLeslie, I agree with you. I don't believe that a macro lifestyle necessarily has long life as a goal. Long life is a byproduct.

KlaraLiving a long life seems lovely, but so does living a full life, and a life with great adventure.

GinatYet, my macrobiotic teacher says that living a long life is indeed a goal of macrobiotics. We should all live long (and meaningful) lives.

SheldonI feel that quality of life is more purposeful than quantity.

ChickSpeaking from experience, being macro avoids some of the problems of old age.

GinatWonderful, Chick!

GinatSo one's skill at applying yin and yang does not determine if he is macrobiotic, yes or no?

SheldonI prefer to think of long life as a byproduct of good health rather than a goal. Macrobiotics seems to be a great means of achieving this if your practice is good in relation to your condition.

ChickThat is how we learned it.

LeslieI think it's Pitchford who says that we can take good food and still distort our application based on our condition.

KlaraYou mean you can give guarantees by "being macro."? I would like to hope that old age, good health does come from eating macrobiotic, but I still feel there's so many other factors that we may not understand.

LeslieMy sister started to try macrobiotics, and then was eating macro desserts 3 times a day. she asked why she didn't feel so well..... and when I suggested that it was the desserts, she said, "well, they're macrobiotic."

GinatMy mother, who barely heard of the word macrobiotic, is in declining health. But she's still alive, and so in some sort of balance. Is she macrobiotic?

SheldonSkill is not a factor in determining if one is macro. Applying yin and yang is a factor. As experience accumulates, the application gets better and better, the skills improve, and the person enjoys the results more favorably.

ChickI don't say that being macro means you have no problems in old age, because chances are you weren't macro all your life.

GinatRight, Chick. Now back to the issue of illness. As Sheldon says, the crux is in the application, not just the understanding, of principles.

GinatOhsawa taught that theory without practice is useless. Practice without theory is dangerous.

ChickBut you will avoid some of the problems that non macros experience. I see other older people with regularity problems that I don't experience.

GinatKlara, Aihara says that food is only 5% of macrobiotics , yet the most important 5%.

GinatMacrobiotics to me means being flexible. Everything changes, and as natural beings, we are able to flow like water and dance with the wind. (How's that!)

LindaGinat, that was beautiful and poetic.

SheldonFlowing like water and dancing with the wind is pretty hard when you don't feel well.

GinatAt one point, Sheldon and I decided that anyone who calls himself macrobiotic, is.

GinatMany people have a health consultation, buy rice, and don't think in terms of yin and yang. Are they macro?

ChickIt depends on what else they eat with that rice. I don't think in terms of yin and yang and I think I’m macro. I think in terms of balance.

LeslieWe have a restaurant here where I live that sells burritos. They call them macrobiotic, but they also have steak, salmon, and Chicken on their menu. The other macro person I know here and I get upset they call their food macrobiotic.... it gives people the wrong idea.... I wonder where that fits.

KlaraWhat happens when you are teaching and see something very blaringly off in the person's understanding, or in their diet - they can call themselves what they wish, but can you go back to the question of how people learn to get more aware of what they are doing?

KlaraI think of macro as a direction - if they do not yet have any understanding of yin and yang they are at the very beginnings of the direction. At least they are eating the rice and hopefully understanding something from the consultation.

GinatI'm humbled by your beautiful understanding. So, Klara asks, "How can we learn to be aware?" How about the silent chatters out there--John C, Sandra....

SheldonIt takes time to think in terms of yin and yang. The concept is too new for most people and it takes time before the habit of a changing thinking-patterns sets in. Nevertheless, I wouldn't define a macro person on the basis of his thinking in terms of yin and yang as long as it is clear that he is headed in that direction.

LindaSheldon, today a lot of things have not been great, and I was not feeling well at all at the beginning of this chat, then when Ginat mentioned flowing like water, my mood changed and I fell great right now....things were not great...and I was NOT flowing

GinatHow can we learn?

TofupaxWe try

LeslieRead and study with someone good!

GinatThese are two good ways. How do we know if someone, or a book, is good?

LindaWe listen to what they say, or what we read, then we apply it to our lives, and we see if it works or not

GinatAbraham says, "Words do not teach. Only experience teaches." Agree? ...How else do we learn?

SandraAgree totally.

LeslieKeep a food journal

GinatFood journals are excellent.

KlaraWhat, we have to reinvent the wheel all by ourselves? We can't learn from others?????

LeslieWe all have favorite teachers and those who we did not learn from. So, I would fit that in with experience too.

GinatIs intention enough? Is it necessary. Sometimes we learn even when we resist, although it's a tough way to go.

LindaGinat I agree, we learn also when we resist...sometimes the lesson is faster.

LeslieFor me the way I learn best is by doing. Sometimes I have little conscious knowledge of yin/yang, yet at an underlying layer is a growing.

SandraApplication is taking the wheel and getting it moving and that moving covers a road of experience.

GinatLet's summarize so far. Who is macrobiotic? --We all are? --The one who says he is? --The one who consciously applies yin and yang?

LeslieAll three options are macro!

KlaraSometimes I am told something and it doesn't "sink in." Then I am told again and it just starts to make a dent. And sometimes I am really lucky and get an “aha” moment.

LindaKlara, we need to "experience" it by ourselves, even if we learn it from others

GinatGood, Leslie. I like that idea. To me, again "being macro" means being open to change. It means saying yes. And the purpose of that????....What is the purpose?...

Ginat....no takers on this $64,000 question?

SandraGrowth...understanding...unlimited potential.

GinatBut, Sandra, to what end?

John CI think the best use of the term macrobiotic is to limit it to people who apply the tools. Not define it as a state of mind.

GinatJohn, it seems like we're saying there that there are various levels of macro practice, some using tools, some just being human.

John COkay

KlaraThe purpose of saying yes, to being flexible, is to bring in the fullest of life that you can.

GinatSame question: Klara--why?

LindaTo me, being Macrobiotic means to live a happy, healthy life...in tune with the Universe

John C|If we use such a broad definition then yin/yang aren't required, right? Or diet?

GinatThere is macrobiotic understanding in one's thinking, and then there is application in ones life. Different levels of application. Different results.

SandraAnd when the final good night comes and I go gently into the netherworld I can say it was worth the trip.

KlaraDo you do it with a full heart, right away, just because that's what you want? or do you have to go through first a lot of hard learning, being bumped along the road of life, going through not feeling good sometimes as Linda mentioned.

LeslieSaying yes is another way of being grateful and the universe opens up for us in new ways...

SandraTo live a big life...a life with purpose and freedom.

GinatYes, yes, yes.....and why, why, why?

TofupaxThat question is like asking what is the purpose of life itself...

SheldonGreat idea--what is the purpose of life?

SandraNow that may take a whole month.

GinatAny last ideas for tonight?

LeslieThanks Ginat: for moderating. so happy to have caught part of this chat. I’ll check out the transcript when it's posted to see what I missed earlier.

LindaThe purpose of life is the purpose we give it

GinatNice! Then it's totally personal, not universal.

John CThanks Ginat

KlaraDid we cover all ways of learning??

GinatI understand that there are 3 ways of learning--with a book, with a teacher, and by yourself. Interesting to think which is most yin, which most yang. We can practice yin/yang application next month as well.

SandraThanks!

LindaGinat, the purpose we give to life is totally connected to the Universe, so it is both personal and Universal

SandraI think it is both and they are intertwined.

Waco Just JoinedHello! Is the chat still on? He he, a little late! good evening everyone!

GinatHello, Waco! That’s my family’s home town!

GinatIt's such a pleasure pondering with you all. Thank you so very much. Let's gather again this time next month for our February chat.

John CI would love to have examples of yin/yang that we can observe and analyze.

GaryThanks Ginat: for a great chat, and for everyone that attended.

GinatJohn, and everyone--please gather yin and yang questions for the group next time.

GaryNext week will be a general chat at the same time, 2pm eastern. On February 15th will be a chat with Jessica Porter. That time will be a bit different—on a Wednesday evening at 8pm.

Sunday January 8th 2006Why do Macrobiotic People Get Cancer?A Moderated Chat Hosted by Ginat Rice

GinatWelcome, everyone, to Cyber Macro chat. Today's topic is, "Why do macrobiotic people get ill? In other words, does a macrobiotic life style guarantee health? First of all, we have to ask, "What does it mean to be macrobiotic. Let's get some ideas...anybody? Who's gotten sick out there, and why do you think you did?

klaraMacrobiotics is living consciously, with goals

LIndaI was very angry, and started to eat a lot of vegetarian junk food....plus a lot of cheese

VicI think a very good understanding of yin and yang is the prime ingredient for health, do you agree?

GinatVic, what do you mean by this? How does a good understanding of yin and yang create/support health?

ardisMy question is: after going on a healing diet are we more susceptible to illness than before?

GinatIdeas, anyone? Are we more susceptible, or more sensitive to conditions that would otherwise be masked?

VicWhat about the mind/body connection?

GINATWhat about it? Give some ideas, Vic

VicI think it's all about choices, choices in food, lifestyle, friends, etc... yin and yang is everywhere in your life, it all has to do with balance,

Cool_DudeMaybe macros get sick because they are arrogant thinking the can eat anything because after all "I'm Macrobiotic! Therefore I can eat anything without any consequences!"

VicThat's the Supreme level, and we're probably not there yet

sallyI’m not sick now, but would like to know what to do to continue being healthy

GINATSally, let's talk about what health is in order to know how to maintain it. What does it mean to be healthy?

Cool_DudeAnd maybe when we think we are there, we are not there, yet!

milliI think that very few 'macro' people get it right - they are often more unbalanced than 'normal' people

klaraOr more worried about it than normal people??!!

ardisCool Dude has a good point. Macros think they know how to balance, so an indiscretion can be righted by a remedy or eating something on the other extreme.

VicBecause it may take years to get it right

janeIt seems to me that the lack of macro snacks is a major problem in making reasonable choices in real life.

GINATSo now we have to address cooking issues. What other problems do people encounter?

BoryaIt’s not all about just cooking

deb2000Shalom all, perhaps because planning meals takes so much thought, so much mind energy, so much of our conscience...it is draining?Encountering people, now that's a problem!

BoryaYour lifestyle, sleep, mood

GINATLet's talk about the idea of supreme judgment being somewhere far away

BoryaIt all relates to being healthy

GINATWhat is supreme judgment? How do we realize it? Is it a distant goal?Hey you guys! Supreme Judgment is over here! Not over there!

klaraNo goal is accomplished just like that - that's for the instant society. We go up, down and hopefully more up than down

hazelWhat part does genetics play

GINATGenetics is what we call constitution. It makes a big difference in healing. But we still need to address basic questions. Let's stay on track here. What is health?

lillianWhat do you mean by supreme judgment?

MamieSometimes it seems to me that relying on Michio or Herman, may his memory be a blessing, or ideas of what is good healing food and what is unbalancing food can take us away from our own ability to make judgments. Makes life complicated and "health" a goal instead of a present condition that ebbs

klaraBeing fully alive?

LIndaI find that the food I eat most certainly affects my level of judgment

lillianI do not understand what you mean by health and supreme judgment

GINATOK, at last. What is health? What is supreme judgment? Let's just focus on this for a moment...responses?

sandraHealth is the ultimate freedom..it allows us to do everything else.

VicRight on

milliWe must not rely on Michio or Herman, but rather embrace their experience and suggestions and then experiment and practice for ourselves. Listen to YOUR body and then adjust accordingly.

VicIf we all strive towards supreme judgment, it then becomes a lifestyle, rather than a "diet"

GINATSo, back to, "What is macrobiotics?" A diet? A lifestyle?

BoryaBeing able to take control of your life by achieving balance with nature

MamieI like the idea that "health" may be "Wholeness" Which doesn't necessarily mean macrobiotics if that leads you to feel separate from yourself.

VicAs noted throughout the years, "macrobiotics" is different for everyone

Cool_DudeWhere do feelings fit in the world of judgment?

GINATMacrobiotics is, clearly a life style. So it includes magic bullet foods, genetics, emotions, ideas....and supreme judgment, among all the other levels. Let's talk about that part.

lillianHealth is balance for me.. It is an every day condition and it is not only about what I eat but how I feel and both seem to be quite connected. It is not a permanent state

GINATVery good!

klaraDoes separate from yourself mean being not honest?

GINATNice question. How can you be separate from yourself? Of course personal dishonesty is a separation... Macrobiotics for me is a discipline that is structured so that I can begin to see the whole picture. It is a looking glass.

Cool_Dude(Q)Is macrobiotic a means of judging, not just ourselves but everything including other people?

GINATWe talk a lot about levels of judgment....yet it's not a kind of judging and criticizing. I prefer to call them levels of consciousness.

LIndaHealth is feeling balance in one's life

ardisHealth is not a static condition. I imagine that being healthy is feeling joyful and alive in one's body and emotional state. As Alex Jack said in a class: We are either going toward or away from health.

Cool_DudeLevels suggest discrimination, "I'm better than you because I'm on a higher level! or "You'll do what I say because I have higher judgment than you!"

VicLevels of "judgment" was a word coined by Ohsawa, I agree, levels of consciousness sounds much better

VicQuality food is where it's at -

GINATSo what do you do if you don't have quality food???

VicHow can you not have quality food?

ardisMacrobiotics gives us the tools with which we can take responsibility for ourselves on all levels.

GINATLet's talk more grounded here....what are the tools? What does it mean to take responsibility. And most of all--why then do so-called macrobiotic people get sick?

klaraLead me not into temptation!!!, Vic!!

klaraWe talk about the levels of consciousness but till we truly experience them how can we know them

GINATWe ARE different levels of consciousness. We just need to tune in, rather than tuning out. It's what you said about being honest, not disconnected from ourselves

Cool_DudeTaking responsibility does not mean judging or attacking other people!

VicMaybe it's all about studying

ardisYou chew 200 times, practice deep breathing and chant.

GINATYes, we know....be personal with all this. How does it help you? What does it give you?

Vic:Food is just one part...how we think, how we chew, what we do, how we think is all a reflection of our reality.

GINATSo, then, what is health?

VicBalance

Cool_DudeWe don’t get peace by enforcing control over other, instead by practicing a peaceful life!

LIndaVic, I moved to Mexico recently, and it is very difficult to find good quality food....in New York was all over the place

GINATYes, in Israel too, there is much less available than in NY. Health, to me, means that everything is OK. Less food, more food, comfort, discomfort....everything is truly OK. Total flexibility.

VicPerhaps if good quality food is not available where you live you will have to mail order it - that's what I had to do years ago, luckily times have changed.

klaraIf everything is ok, where do goals come in?

GINATNice! We have goals--say, health--and it's ok if they are fulfilled or not. Can you really embrace this idea?

sandraHealth is feeling good, feeling joy and confident that we can meet our daily demands.

lillianWe are all human beings..nothing can make you pure, clean and exempt from illness.. It is more about what you do if you get sick, how you deal with it, what tools you rather use and what your instinct tells you..learning to be in touch with oneself is quite a challenge for me every day

GINATThis is a nice comment. Yes, even spiritual people get ill. Why is this?

BoryaYes, if you are happy your are probably healthy

chatcat27So what causes illness or disease - It's not just about the food / diet; it's all the components, is it not?

sandraI believe it all starts in our minds. How we use what we have is our choice.

MamieThen even illness could fit the overall picture of health--yes?

GINATNow you're getting it! So what do we need to do to integrate all these many componants..to be honest and whole?

GINATWonderful insight! I have a friend whose body is still ill, but she is healed. Can this be?

klaraBecause she accepts her illness?? So what does being ill mean??

GINATHere's my definition of health: Balance. Illness then is imbalance. It's as simple as that.

klaraIsn't arrogance the biggest illness? Isn't it arrogant to think we can control everything about our bodies??

GINATAbsolutely

janeIs the purpose of life to be healthy?

GINATIs it for you? Isn't health a means to a bigger goal?

Cool_DudeOsawa ate potatoes in prison, poor quality food. Did it benefit him? Was he healthy? He almost lost his eyesight from that experience!

KlaraSo why are we trying? I mean aren't we trying?

GINATDeepak Chopra calls trying a cultural virus. We really get the most done when we are the stillest and deepest, like the organization of the cosmos, still and silent.

LIndaGinat, being personal about this, taking full responsibility gives me total freedom

chatcat27So we can correct the imbalance once recognized.

chatcat27It's about practice. It's the lifestyle. Is your friend healed? I want to know why spiritual people get ill. I want to know why someone who follows the diet to a T gets ill. Is there an answer forthcoming?

GINATOK, let's get down to it. We can call my friend healed, or we can call her sick. The same for Michio. Spiritual people, like all people, get sick because there is some imbalance inherent in life. So they reach a bump and have to get over it. Next, we have to ask what it means to practice to a T....

lillianI am going through a breast cancer experience right now... I have chosen not to do the regular therapies, I refused chemotherapy and radio therapy and I have had to confront a lot of fear of not following the rules "established". I rather decided to do alternative things like changing my eating habits, and paying close attention to my body and my needs.. Just like when doctors think they have the truth and the power to predict an outcome, following "anything that makes you feel you are "above and over it all" is as tricky and dangerous

Cool_DudeEveryone who walks someplace is balanced until they can't walk anymore! Walking and running are balancing actions! Falling down is due to imbalance! And eventually everyone reaches that point!

klaraSo can you be balanced if your body is in disease??

GINATThe body and the mind are one, yet respond at different rates. So yes, you can be balanced and still diseased, or imbalanced without physical symptoms (yet). What indeed is balance?

VicLinda, I like that - taking full responsibility gives me total freedom

janeI think the purpose of life is to do good in the world, and health is helpful, but not necessary.

GINATSo, what is balance? It's clearly not a static state of being... Is balance happiness?

Cool_DudeVic, taking total responsibility for you, gives you total freedom but what about taking total freedom for others?

klaraI like what Jane said yet am still confused. Don't we all want to be healthy? Free of disease?

GINATNo, being free of disease is not the biggest purpose. Michio knew what he was creating. His goals were different than his health.

LIndaGinat, balance is moving up and down staying close to the center.....not major up and down jumps

GINATNo, this is being centered. Even Evil Keneival was balanced. How do we achieve balance? Macrobiotics provides us the key--right under our noses. And, yes, our minds, in understanding yin and yang.

lillianBalance is learning to use your mind, food, support, etc.. to achieve a state of well being wherever you are. It is not a goal, it is a path..Like happiness is not a state but a condition

klaraI don't think balance and happiness are the same. Balance is going back and forth amongst different states, so sometimes happiness, sometimes sadness

GINATBravo

VicThat's an automatic - when you take total responsibility for yourself - - that's all you really need to do right now

GINATYes, but....can you give a personal example? Let's get practical a bit. People still want to heal serious illnesses.

klaraBalance--anything can be thrown at you and you don't fall?

GINATNo, sometimes you do fall. THEN you get back up. I fell.

chatcat27It certainly is a path but does that mean that's the answer to: If imbalance causes dis-ease than how to we achieve and maintain balance. Is there a secret.

GINATI like your direct questions. Yes, there is a secret, and as I said it's under your nose and above your eyebrows--our mouth and our minds. Ohsawa said: theory without practice is useless and practice without theory is dangerous.

sarelsenSo the very first sentence on the back of my copy of kushi's the macrobiotic way is: "More than 40 years ago, Michio Kushi recognized that improper diet was a principal cause of many illnesses, including cancer. " macrobiotics is definitely "sold" as a disease prevention/cure. is this false advertising

chatcat27How did you fall Ginat?

GINATChatcat, thanks for a practical question. After 20 years of macrobiotic practice, and even counseling others to health, I developed breast cancer. It threw me for a loop. I went deep inside to heal it, and learned a ton. You can read my story on our website if you like--www.TheRiceHouse.com. Wait a bit, we're still under construction.

VicThe strongest of all of us are the ones the fall and get back up again, so, you, Ginat, are the strength of our group.

GINATThank you....thank you

lillianLearning to be flexible with life’s uncertainties and knowing you are not in control of your life, as if you are untouchable if you do this or the other, or safe if you follow this diet..are two main issues I am facing with my breast cancer and my choices..

Cool_DudeGinat, isn't balance a constantly changing state?

GINATOf course it is. That means that we are constantly changing. This is the state of health--flexibility. Everything's ok. This is nature. We have desires and we let them go just as easily. Ohsawa's mantra was, "Everything's ok." Can you really mean that? Can you say yes to everything???

VicWhat has been stated before in macrobiotic literature was the fact that Michio and Herman were oriental and this diet that they brought to the US was not for Americans - it was too yang.

GINATPerhaps...so we've changed and evolved. Israeli macrobiotics is not the same as, say, Australia. Today I eat differently than I did yesterday. Now I am yang, tomorrow perhaps I'll be yin. So I flow...

MamieIsn't is Rainier Marie Rilke who said, We learn to live the questions and we may someday live our way to the answers?

klaraI feel great resistance to say yes to anger, hurtfulness, and other negative emotions. I feel I don't want them in my life.

GINATYour honesty is always so very refreshing, Klara. Hat's off. Practice saying yes to hurt, to unwelcome events, to "negativity." Then it's not negative. Say yes to life. It's quite a discipline.

VicYes, going with flow - as Michio always says "Please enjoy:

Cool_DudeAlso isn't constant and change both components of everything, like yang and yin?

GINATConstancy and change...nice. The only constant is change...far out, cool dude!

LIndaGinat, I must accept that I am not that flexible, truly, deep in my heart I can not say YES to everything

GINATYour honesty is the first step there. There's no where else to begin other than where you are. We can all do it. The magic ingredient--our diet. It's what everyone else forgets when they want to be spiritual.

janeMy impression is that even in the macrobiotic literature, it is important to have a connection with some larger force outside yourself.

GINAT

Absolutely. THAT is the point of wellness, or perhaps we can say that that is wellness. Being connected. Being whole.

mikefBalance is a result of proper energy input into our mind/body/spirit. Most critical source is the food we eat but we also get from other sources around us - sun, radiation, weather, seasons, etc. The challenge is feeling when all are in sync. Getting ill is missing some aspect of keeping balanced. Illness tells us that we need to examine our daily life activities to see where we slipped off to too yin or too yang

sandraSeparation....the belief that we stand alone is a major function of imbalance. Knowledge that we are all connected through infinite and universal mind is to court balance. Is Yin and Yang balance perhaps knowing we are one part of one whole?

lillianI can only say "everything is ok" on a daily basis... sometimes not the whole day... but that makes me wonder when I will embrace it all as ok..It is quite a chllenge..Taking an illness as an opportunity to redefine a life.. and an opportunity to grow.. Knowing nothing is permanent and that is ok...life and death dancing together.. Death of old habits,

GINATYou are balanced all the time...just sometimes you forget.

chatcat27(Q)I got out of the chatroom when I went to read your story. I merely scanned it since I didn't really want to leave the chat room. I will read your story later, however what I am picking up on is that it's certainly not just diet, it's like the spokes of a wheel and if one's broken it effects the integrity of the whole. There are lots of components, clearly our emotional health is one.

ardis(Q)"Everything’s OK" That sounds like a good antidote to one of modern man's dilemmas: stress, which they are finding causes a lot of illness.

GINATYou know. You are unhappy, unwell, un-whatever. And if you don't know, don't worry. Just wait. It will get worse. Eventually it becomes physical, and then we know for sure. Then we have to go inward to find the glitch, and allow it so we can face it.

GINATYou are all right--stress is a yang factor, although not necessarily totally off-balance...maybe just a bit. Some stress can be helpful even to get us going. I have stress now answering all these great comments, and I'm feeling great. I couldn't keep it up all night though.

chatcat27You are doing excellent. This is a great forum. Thank you.

Cool_Dude(Q)Again are you talking about stress being the cause or the product (yin or yang)?

GINATHave we answered the question? Is there any unfinished business? Why do "macrobiotic" people get sick? I think it's because they lack balance on some level. They still have challenges, like everyone.

lillianBecause we can never have a 100 % balance

GINATAnd yes, their macrobiotic life style may be off. It's not everything, but it's a big part. In a sense, we all have 100% balance, meaning that we are all alive.

sandraMacrobiotic people get sick because we rely on something outside of ourselves. It all starts on the inside...our thoughts create our reality. Fear, number one devil.

GINATYes, Gerald Jampolsky says there are two emotions--love and fear.

VicThere are so many great macrobiotic articles/workshops, pamphlets, etc... that are old and out of print, but oh so informative and interesting to study - hopefully they are still available out there.?

Gary(Q)Do you feel that there is a big role for macrobiotic counselors to guide us to balance

GINATI'm so glad you asked this. This is the main thrust of my counseling and guiding. It is essential. I teach cooking, and I teach how to feel, to think, to allow.

klara(C)Wasn't fear learned? Doesn't it need to be unlearned?

chatcat27(Q)For me, definitely one of the keys is to be in a nurturing environment and practice, practice, meditation and diet.

GINATYes, this helps. Then we need to slowly learn to maintain it when conditions are harder. My students always have access to me for encouragement and support.

lillianI think we are all human beings and we are here to learn, even if we are balanced because we are alive, you are human you go thru all emotions and states of mind and you would be perfect and therefore not human if you had all factors in control . the only language we understand that promotes change

Cool_Dude(Q)One famous macrobiotic cooking teacher, cookbook writer, loved by many was said to binge on fried bread!

GINATThere's a good issue. Our beloved teacher ate jelly doughnuts. It was his choice for what he wanted to create in his life. We are free beings, thank God

sandraI think we have to be vigilant of our thoughts. Our conscious mind must be the watchdog of what we interpret as truth

LInda(C)Fear is learned Klara, and I think one way to unlearn it is by having our liver, and our kidneys working properly

LInda(C)Yes Sandra, I agree that our thoughts create our reality......and what goes inside our mouths create part if not all of our thoughts

Pascal_CarlierWhat for me has always been a key to joy, health and happiness is changing habits often. Always renewing yourself and enjoying different things...

chatcat27(C)The secret or answer to live in nurturing place must start from the inside. We all need compassion. Letting go and healing of the fears and anger -- yes learned. Yes, I agree to, our thoughts create our reality.

GINATI think we've learned a lot from each other tonight. It's a great supportive group. We have a wonderful support group here in Jerusalem. It's so important. I met a man once who knew no other macrobiotic people, so he opened a free dinner party once a week at his home to attract people. It worked! Macrobiotics means always finding a way

VicThank you, Ginat.

Pascal_CarlierI like that one (macrobiotics means always finding a way). Thanks Ginat, P.

Write what it is that you want in two pages; Now write what it is that you want in two sentences.

Why have you not achieved the goal that you have stated? What could you be doing differently than you are now? Why don’t we see that there is another possibility?

Why do we give up? Why do we complain? Why do we resist?What is the difficulty with this sentimental view of life?

These lower levels of judgment are a partial view wherein we are seeking gratification or accomplishment. We must accept the whole package of life, not just the parts we like We can’t always feel good or do/have what we like.

Make an active choice not to reject or resist, but to allow and direct attention. Accept and embrace ourselves without giving moral value.

Recognize that nothing is so important; nothing can take away the pleasure in my life.

In peace time, war is present, but we focus on the peace.

Chat transcript, Ginat Rice at CyberMacro, May 28.Why Don’t People Do What They Say They Want to Do?

Ginat: Let's begin! The question for today is why people don't do what they say they want to do. First of all, let's discuss for ourselves what things we want to work on, and yet somehow don't...

Sheldon: Sometimes we imagine that what we said has already been done.

Ginat: Gary, Sheldon--what issues are up for you guys?

Sheldon: Why do I love to eat so much?

Ginat: We're talking about issues we want to improve, yet somehow don't. Sheldon asks why he loves to eat! Do you others have an issue to share?

gxpark1234: I’m still working on my eyes to heal..

Sheldon: Am I attracted to the food or do I just love to use my mouth and hands? Sometimes one and sometimes the other and sometimes both.

Ginat: Do you want to share with us, Gx, what you've been doing? Sheldon--maybe you should take up pipe smoking.

Sheldon: The problem is that I sometimes like to eat after I have just finished eating. I actually smoked a pipe at one time in my life, but then I gave up all forms of tobacco.

gxpark1234: Ginat as you know about my sanpaku eyes.. I'm just really trying to eat healthy and live a macrobiotic lifestyle

Ginat: Is eating as much a habit as smoking, Sheldon? Gx, can I push you to explain more in detail what you are doing? Are you getting any results?

Sheldon: No. the need to eat is not consistent; I can go many days sometimes with being satisfied with my regular meals. With tobacco I couldn't stay away for more than a very short time.

gxpark1234: Sure.. I’m eating very healthy now.. I gave up sugar, milk, most meats.. I've been sleeping before midnight. and walk when I can.. I also been trying to stay off the computer / TV... that’s really it

Ginat: Any results, Gx?

gxpark1234: I can feel this energy around my eyes trying to go back.. but nothing significant

Sheldon: Actually, the whole issue is in balance. When I am in balance, I don't feel a need for more food; when I am not, I get too yang and keep reaching out for something more to yinnize my condition.

gxpark1234: So Ginat, I just don’t know what else to do..

Ginat: OK, so there's some movement then Gx. It's good you can feel energy. Sheldon, how do you create balance? You seem to lose it sometimes. Is it controllable?

Sheldon: It is controllable, but that means using will power to maintain control. When I am in balance, I don't need will power; I just feel good without any urges for more.

gxpark1234: Yes I can feel energy.. but there’s still cracking inside and behind my eyes.. I guess I have to be more patient Ginat??

Ginat: But my question is Sheldon: How do you get in or out of balance? Gx, I need to know a lot more about what you're eating and thinking. And of course, patience is needed, but also progress.

gxpark1234: Well today I ate brown rice, romaine lettuce, carrot and a few pieces of hotdog..

Ginat: Sheldon--how do you know (or feel) that your food and activities are in balance, or not? Why do they get imbalanced?

gxpark1234: Ginat, my question is .. and I probably already asked this.. but it boggles my mind on why my right eye shifted up and expanded and my left eye shifted down and became smaller(iris)

Ginat: Gx--Have you contacted a counselor yet? The hot dogs may be slowing you down a bit.

Sheldon: Often I am OK until after the first bite of whatever. for example this evening we sat with friends who kept filling up a bowl of nuts. I could easily have avoided the nuts to begin with as I was in balance after a delicious supper--but NO-- I had to start. Once started, I was off and running.

Ginat: So it comes back after all to will power?

gxpark1234: Yes I’ve talked to Gabrielle Kushi and she really didn’t know if macrobiotics was the cure.. but she told me she would help .. the problem is .. I have no money..

Ginat: Then let's work on money issues. Premise: There is ALWAYS enough money.

Sheldon: Not really. Will power would be needed to stop eating the nuts after I started to eat them. Before I started there was no need to use will power; I was relaxed and fine.

gxpark1234: Ginat, did my eyes shift and cause the muscles around my eyes to shift??

Ginat: Sheldon--will power could have stopped the first bite. After that, it gets harder. If you didn't want to eat, then why did you (we)? No, Gx, the eye shift and muscle change came together from a too-yang condition. Why don't you make more changes according to the standard macrobiotic diet?

gxpark1234: ok..

Sheldon: I didn't say that I didn't want to eat. I simply allowed myself to eat. At some level it was part of the socializing to partake of what was offered. For example, when I smoked, I was OK when I stopped, until the first puff; then I went out and bought a carton.

Ginat: It sounds similar to me, although quantitatively different. One bite or puff and it's hard to stop.

Sheldon: That's right; it is hard to stop after the first puff or bite because immediately an imbalance is created.

gxpark1234: Ginat, should I just do a brown rice fast?? will it help me improve faster??

Ginat: So back to the original question--why don't we do what we say we want to do? Gx, same question for you? If you want to do a rice diet, don't ask my opinion--try it and see.

gxpark1234: ok .. ill try thank u

Klara: Sheldon, you have burst a huge bubble for me. I thought if I ate the way you guys ate, I'd be on top of the world. So I'm thinking it's a LOT more than food - it's all the other issues of life we need to reflect on and see in a new light.

Sheldon: I must confess that when I do eat more than I need I may not feel so OK, but I never regret it or feel pangs of guilt. I just start over again the next day. I do self reflect, however, to try to learn from the experience, but I don't sulk over it.

Klara: I asked at our first chat, how much is habit that we slip so easily into again? the eating whatever is in front of your eyes

Ginat: Sheldon, share some more of your self reflection. Why do you do what you'd prefer you don't do? [Sheldon's on the phone....] Any one else out there doing things they wish they didn't, or not doing what they wish they were? Klara--it must be hard for you to see macrobiotic people get sick, or have difficulties, or be less than perfect. Are macro people less than human? By making us more than human you actually de-humanize us.

jayneau: Yes. Sometimes I find it such a chore to do mb cooking. But once I'm in the swing, it's OK. It's the getting started that's hard for me.

Sheldon: There is a big gap between the intellectual me that says what I should or shouldn't be doing, and the sensorial me that says go for it; what the heck--you only live once.

Klara: I think I know my own answer - I realize I'm eating better than I used to - less garbage and less overeating, but the change is very slow. Perhaps slower than my head wishes - so perhaps the question needs to be fine tuned a little - why does my head want me to go faster than my body already is?

Ginat: Jayn, how do you self-talk yourself into the kitchen when you are resisting? What do you do to convince yourself?

Sheldon: Klara you idealize what should or shouldn't be; just allow and let things flow.

Ginat: Sheldon--stop lecturing! Tell us more about the gap between head and mouth.

jayneau: I usually just make myself put the rice on. Then once the rice is going, I feel I must cook something else to go along with it. That's how I get myself moving.

Ginat: Klara--why then do you go slower than you think you'd like? You are making progress, but you are not satisfied? So why do you hold back? So you make an active choice to start with the rice Jayneau, and it flows from there. Good method!

Sheldon: What helps me the most is constantly communicating the issues of overeating. Even when I am resisting the lecture of what I should or shouldn't be doing, the message penetrates and helps a great deal--till the next time.

Ginat: So you recognize what you are doing, Sheldon, reject guilt, and keep practicing. Good!

Sheldon: Of course I recognize it. If I didn't I wouldn't bring up the subject on this chat or any other time.

Ginat: These methods of be aware, choosing a response, and recognizing progress are true macrobiotic thinking, unifying rather than rejecting opposites. In other words, war is present in peace time, but we choose not to focus on it. Weakness is there, but we focus on strengths.

Klara(C): Actually, it's inspiring for me to realize everyone has their own challenges - I'm much more at ease when I realize I'm with human beings, not gods

Klara(C): I don't think my issue is about holding back (though you may be right, I'll have to think more about it), but the issue more about not being satisfied

Ginat: Accept and embrace ourselves without assigning moral value of good (or good enough), bad, right, wrong.... So what are we learning? First, to make an active choice. Second, nothing can take away my own pleasure in my life. Third, front and back both always exist. We choose to focus on the one we want.

Sara: It seems that in order to feel really good about ourselves and embrace ourselves and others we need to be relaxed from the inside out

Ginat: I've come more and more to define health and happiness as relaxation. I think you are right on target, Sara. How do we each relax? This is a key!

Sheldon: We don't always focus on anything in particular. Most of life's activities just happen without forethought or coming from an intellectual level or deep thought. It is a process of just being and allowing and accepting and enjoying.

Sara: Focusing on the one we want, how to choose to look at something requires a determination to put attention on the way that feels better is accurate from a broader perceptive, then the relaxation comes because it resonates

Ginat: Sheldon, this is a sentimental level of consciousness, just letting life flow. Sometimes we want to pay specific attention when things are not quite as we'd like them. Good, Sara--we make an active decision.

jayneau: I've got to learn to be pro-active instead of reactive. To make things happen, rather than just letting things happen and then reacting.

Ginat: Can you give us an example?

Sara: to make the active decision of choosing a particular focus can be done if there is a belief of benefit- one has to understand the principles and laws to be motivated to find better choices

Sheldon: What's wrong with being sentimental sometimes. Is it necessary to deeply philosophize all the time on all issues and all things. Sometimes I just want to relax and not think so much, and simply accept what is without deep thought.

Ginat: Sheldon, you exaggerate. I said that sometimes floating down steam doesn't serve us, such as when we want to make changes. At those times we chose not to reject or resist, but to allow and direct attention. Sara, do you have any specific examples?

Sara: We get to choose our own timing, a step forward, a regrouping or a step ahead, its all at the speed that we choose

Klara(Q): I'm working on allowing more "quiet time" between what jumps into my head and what I allow to go out to the universe.

Ginat(A): Yes, you've been practicing this for some time now. Are you pleased with your progress? Has it helped you? How can we be satisfied with ourselves and at the same time want more? This is always the balance I seek to discover.

Klara(Q): It's amazing! I see I don't have to "control" everything, that I can allow, but best of all, I see life flows more easily

Ginat(A): I'm so encouraged to hear this! So you are choosing to relax consciously. Great tip for all of us!

Sheldon: Self reflect and find joy with what is. At the same time, strive for more but don't be disappointed if you don't achieve all that you dream. Keep dreaming and keep striving but keep a level head.

jayneau: I guess it's accepting the here and now for what it is, yet doing what we can to achieve what we want in the future.

Ginat: So it's a two-tiered approach--accept and don't accept? I get too intellectual about it I think.

Sara(C): I like to feel my through all this. I have to know that I deserve more because that’s the nature of expansion, and also that its just right the way it is now

Ginat: Nice thought, Klara

Sara: I’ve learned that we cant really move toward what we want ahead until we make peace with the now, make the best of right here, right now, with these people in my life

Ginat: How do you make peace when you want more?

Sara: You hold a vision more in a playful way, have fun with it, yet don’t allow the emotion to feel the lack of it not being here right now

Alandra: Are making peace and wanting more mutually exclusive?

Sheldon: Wanting more is a natural process; otherwise you stagnate and even recede. What you feel when you don't get the "more" is the issue here. What I am saying, is: keep desiring more, but allow for the possibility that it won't materialize.

Ginat: Yes, now I see! Wanting is emotional level; accepting is unifying. So they are not exclusive, but different.

Sheldon: Excellent

snoopybd7: Do you think macrobiotics causes more difficulties in the area of satisfaction or wanting more than people who are not macro?

Sara: The more is in multiple areas such as health, relationships, creativity etc. sometimes one area is thriving and another is stuck or getting better, shifting the attention to the area that is pleasing is appreciation, that can seep over to the area that feels less satisfying

Ginat: Does macrobiotics causes more difficulties in the area of satisfaction or wanting more than for non-mbs? Maybe so.

Sheldon: Macrobiotics allows one to maximize the pleasures that life has to offer in a more optimal way. This is so because of the stronger energies available.

Ginat: Let's conclude. Can we have a concluding statement from each person? What have you learned today from our chat?

Gary: That we are all human and none of us is perfect

Sara: Nice to see the synchronicity of ideas

Alandra: Eating grains allows me to more easily accept what is.

Sheldon: Allowing is such an important aspect of peace of mind, love, and joy

snoopybd7: Macrobiotics can be very complex at times

Kirk Day: Reflection is key to change thinking. How do you value the techniques for changing the sub-conscious (affirmations, etc.)?

Ginat: Like Michio, I am clearly in favor of any holistic method to clarify our thinking. The criterion is that the method unify opposites. I don't try to affirm something if it means rejecting it's opposite.

Klara: I learned that consciousness is indeed the key

Kirk Day: Communicating with other macrobiotic people is fun!

Klara: I’m in total agreement with you, Kirk

snoopybd7: It’s something you don’t get to do everyday.

Ginat: Everyone has answered. I learned a lot from this chat, and enjoyed it. I learned that we can have a pleasant time and develop friendship! Thank you all so much!

Kirk Day: Sorry I got distracted and came in late. Thanks, this is my first time on this chat.

Sara: Thanks all

Gary: Thanks Ginat and Sheldon!

snoopybd7: Thanks

Ginat: Goodbye, everyone, till next time. Come again, Kirk, Alandra, and all others! See you next time!

Comments:Hi Ginat and Sheldon,

I just read the chat transcript - that was great - you really orchestrate it well Ginat - the flow is great and focused and dynamic. Loved the ways you guys interacted too - that was gorgeous! :-)

About the topic - in Access, a kind of multi-dimensional way of self reflecting and owning your infiniteness, they recommend asking the question (always ask the question and live in the question) when something good happens and when something 'bad" happens - how does it get any better than this?

This can have quite some dramatic effects - I did experience that once quite dramatically.

They also say to see everything with an attitude of interesting point of view (IPOV)

I think the key is gratitude - when we are truly thankful for what we have then we naturally invite more...of course it it a lot easier to feel gratitude when we feel balanced and our liver chi is humming along nicely!-- Ilanit Tof