And to all Macmanicas: answer me one question please - did you buy the Mac for UNIX purposes or desktop use? So don't tell me something about Jobs marketing yada-yada-yada. You bought the Mac because this kind of desktop fits your idea of it. And the 'UNIX under the surface' is something to ease your 'opensource conscience' look boy, it's a UNIX(TM) too and it's even something like a FreeBSD (in fact it's something FreeBSD, BSD4.x, NextStep(based on BSD4.x), Mach, NetBSD, GNU and some commercial glue mixed up to represent something UNIX according to the definition of the OpenGroup).

What's this supposed to mean? Is it free bait because I'll rip you apart. Have you ever used Mac OS X? If you install X11 and MacPorts, then it feels no different than any other Unix out there. It's just a Unix with a fancy GUI. I like it, but don't care too much for it. Give me X11 with twm, and I will be happy.

this is turning into a flame war so i believe we should stop. anyone who likes mac go buy some, the ones who don't just don't buy one. it's that simple IMHO.

this is a technical forum and an excelent community, people share ideas, let's keep it this way.

my 2 cents

/v

__________________
Stop! think! ... the problem is somewhere between the monitor and chair..."First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win."Gandhilinks: spreadbsdsyk

Besides the technological crap you mention about Unix you seem to have an obsession with people who like Macs. Maybe you should look into that ?

George

I'm using a Mac and I'm using Macs since 68k (with System 7), even at work besides some Solaris machines. So stop the blathering if you don't understand a single word! My saying is, it's perfect for *someones* desktop, but if you want something that follows the UNIX-principle or if you like the console then go with Linux, $BSD, OpenSolaris etc.

>Have you ever used Mac OS X? If you install X11 and MacPorts, then it feels no different than any other Unix out there.

@ninjatux, yes I do know fink, macports etc. It comes not even close to FreeBSD ports. And if you install xcode and this and that ... , do you get it now? But of course you will not believe it, because the average Mac-user wouldn't think critical of his beloved Apple hardware But in the end it's just my opinion. Maybe you'll ask why I'm using it, because I do know what's the perfect tool for a certain task (e.g. Photoshop). And I'm using Apple for such tasks and FreeBSD or Linux for UNIX-behaviour. So do you understand? It's not flame-bait for the simple minded, it's distinguishing for mature users.

It's not flame-bait for the simple minded, it's distinguishing for mature users.

From your previous post, I gather that you use Mac OS X for non-Unix tasks and Unix-like operating systems for Unix tasks. OS X is a Unix-like operating system. The functionality is there, but Apple likes to concentrate more on developing GUIs for every task rather than doing it the traditional Unix way. Why does it matter? If the functionality is there, you can use it. Whether it's hidden or not, doesn't mean that it suddenly loses its identity. Honestly, I don't understand the "distinguishing". To me, it seems like a pathetic excuse for Unix-fanboyism, which in the case of OS X doesn't work. I agree with you that OS X does a lot of things differently, but to me it feels no different than any other Unix, maybe because of the way I have it setup. I use zsh, I have a terminal open with screen running at all times. I use mpd + ncmpc to listen to music. I have configured sshfs to mount my home directory on my Debian box on my Mac on startup. While most Mac users referred me to MacFusion, a GUI to do this, I went the simple way and wrote a shell script for Automator. My point is that, I don't see a reason to differentiate because I can do everything that I was doing on Linux or *BSD on OS X because the Unix functionality that I need is there.

> Remember folks, if you slap a GUI on Unix.. it's not Unix anymore, why? because Oliver_H said so.

Adding fuel to fire?
No one is arguing wether OSX is Unix or not because now it _is_ Unix.

Both oliver and gkontos are experienced *nix users and i am sure both have valid points.
Most people need MS Windows or OSX for their "desktop" needs. Atleast with OSX you can drop down to a Unix command prompt (if you choose to).

> Remember folks, if you slap a GUI on Unix.. it's not Unix anymore, why? because Oliver_H said so.

Adding fuel to fire?
No one is arguing wether OSX is Unix or not because now it _is_ Unix.

Both oliver and gkontos are experienced *nix users and i am sure both have valid points.
Most people need MS Windows or OSX for their "desktop" needs. Atleast with OSX you can drop down to a Unix command prompt (if you choose to).

Yes, I'm not disputing that, but it seems that oliver is saying that you can't use OS X for Unix functionality, or at least you shouldn't.

You should get yourself a Linux laptop (a laptop from a linux OEM). Then you can stick BSD if you want. By getting a linux laptop, you get a box that is a bit more likelly to run BSD (since it already come with linux, the components in it are more likelly compatible with BSD) than a windoze box.