Post by Prosay on Jul 22, 2017 10:32:32 GMT -5

Activists are facing off with New York’s political establishment in a fight over holding the state’s first constitutional convention in 50 years.

In November, New Yorkers will vote on whether to hold the convention. At such an event, specially elected delegates from the state’s legislative districts can propose amendments to New York’s constitution.

Those favoring a “yes” vote include a coalition of conservatives and liberals who say they are frustrated with the status quo and want to bypass the governor and state legislature to make changes.

The proponents are hoping the grass-roots activism and calls for radical change that buoyed presidential candidates Bernie Sanders and Donald Trump in the 2016 election could carry over into the referendum.

On the other side, the governor, legislative leaders, New York City’s mayor and other skeptics have suggested it could be a waste of time or money. The most ardent opponents, such as union leaders, have said it could be a danger.

Backing “no” campaigns is also a coalition of some of the state’s most influential groups, including Planned Parenthood, the United Federation of Teachers, and the Rifle and Pistol Association.

J.H. Snider, an expert on state constitutional conventions who is editing the New York State Constitutional Convention Clearinghouse, said lawmakers and the groups that work with them have an incentive to oppose the event.

“It’s a legislative bypass that takes away their gatekeeping powers,” Mr. Snider said. “Any interest group that has invested heavily in a legislature and has a track record of success is going to view this as a Pandora’s box.”

By state law, New York puts a convention up for referendum every two decades. If “yes” wins, delegates would be elected next year and the event held in 2019. Amendments to the constitution would be codified only if they win another referendum.

At New York’s last referendum for a constitutional convention, in 1997, the issue was voted down. The state last held a constitutional convention in 1967, but none of its amendments was passed by voters in the later referendum.

In struggling upstate areas, a push to divide the state into two autonomous regions through a constitutional amendment is gaining steam among conservatives.

Its backers say the policies that work for New York City have hurt upstate New York, and splitting the two would solve the problem.

“What do you have to lose?” said Carl Paladino, an upstate Tea Party conservative who backs the convention. “Things can’t get any worse.”

Downstate, liberal activists are pushing a variety of issues, including some that take aim at lawmakers, such as imposing term limits and campaign-finance restrictions.

“Most of the opposition is coming from groups for whom the current system is working,” said Evan Davis, a New York City attorney backing the convention. “But for most people, state government is not going swimmingly.”

Politicians, unions and others wary of the convention have expressed several concerns.

Gov. Andrew Cuomo, a Democrat, said convention delegates could be people who already hold public office, as elected officials aren’t barred from running for convention delegate roles. “If the convention is going to be run by the people who currently run the government, then I would say the purpose of the convention is basically defeated,” he said recently.

Senate Majority Leader John Flanagan, a Long Island Republican, warned a convention could be costly and said the money is better spent elsewhere. He also noted the constitution is regularly amended through another process, by which legislators put amendments on ballots.

Senate Minority Leader Andrea Stewart-Cousins, a Yonkers Democrat, said “corporate interests” could take over the convention. “While the intent of one may be good, the reality is much different,” she said.

New Yorkers are still learning about the issue. In a Siena College poll this month, 67% of New York voters said they know nothing about it.

Spreading the word, small donors and some wealthy activists have begun giving to “yes” campaign committees, while unions and other organizations fund “no” campaigns.

A fundraising campaign for a “no” vote on the constitutional convention, New Yorkers Against Corruption, recently received $50,000 from teachers union NYSUT and $250,000 from health-care union SEIU 1199, state campaign-finance records show.

The group has raised some $635,300 overall. “Our coalition is robust and diverse,” a spokesman said.

A competing fundraising group for a “yes” vote, Committee for a Constitutional Convention, has raised some $67,000, mostly from individual donors giving small amounts.

Separately, liberal donor Bill Samuels has given more than $100,000 to “yes” campaigns.

Bertha Lewis, the former chief executive of organizing group Acorn and a longtime liberal activist, is campaigning to hold the convention.

She said “yes” activists, which span the ideological and geographical spectrum, are “strange bedfellows,” but their alliance would end if a convention came to be. “Let’s have a fair fight,” she said. “But first, ’yes’ has to win.”

Post by dantroop on Jul 22, 2017 11:54:32 GMT -5

With the NYS legislature already controlled by the NYC Democrats what could possibly go wrong? Can you imagine what would come out of the convention with the likes of Cuomo, DeBlasio, Mark-Viverito and other political hacks and kleptocrats calling the shots? On second thought I would rather not imagine what a Charlie Foxtrot that would be.

Post by lexisman on Jul 22, 2017 11:57:43 GMT -5

But I do like that idea of creating two zones for New York State, one for the city, and one for the rest of the state. The upstaters are correct that New York city's taxes and policies are crippling the upstate economy.

But can we trust the powers that be in Albany right now to do the right thing? I doubt it. So I'll vote no

Post by Prosay on Jul 22, 2017 13:01:46 GMT -5

The upstaters are correct that New York city's taxes and policies are crippling the upstate economy.

Correct on that.

And the proof of that was when Cuomo tried to shanghai the state's pension systems to pay for the new Tappan Zee Bridge. The upstate civil servants balked...and balked loudly...saying they never even heard of the Tappan Zee Bridge, much less ever used it.

Then he recently tried some shenanigans with the MTA, something like trying to tax everyone in the state to pay for it.

Last year, some towns up around Binghamton wanted to secede from the state in order to start digging for oil up there by "fracking," just like their neighbors in nearby Pennsylvania were doing (with exceptional results). Cuomo panicked and offered them one of his bullshit "solutions"....Casinos....but with strings attached: between the five or so towns, the state would only allow two casinos, with the bulk of the money going to the state. Considering that in a 12 inch snow storm at zero degrees not too many people think about going to a casino, the towns, of course, turned it all down.

Essentially, the upstate sector have absolutely NOTHING to lean on, while the bulk of the food stamp, welfare, and Medicaid bill for the state goes to downstate/NYC

Post by Prosay on Jul 22, 2017 22:22:39 GMT -5

As I stated above, even Cuomo tried to get his hands on them already, to no avail, thankfully.

And there's a good chance that the topic of "pensions" will come up; maybe not retroactively...yet...but certainly present day active employees and their future.

Word to the wise upstate: watch out!: your coverage for your disability pensions will be out the window much like the NYPD's 3/4s was dismantled in order to off-set the losses of the city's portion of MEDICAID.

After eight years of Socialist control in Washington, with its influx of illegal aliens to NYS, there's little money to play with anymore and, like a shark sniffing out blood, they're coming to get the pot-'o-gold called, the "New York State Police and Fire Pension System."

Post by GBA on Jul 23, 2017 2:36:19 GMT -5

^^^^^^ YES the Pension $ are i would think whats "glints" in their eyes , personally by the time all is said & done with any changes unfortunately if they happen i might be "ONE UNDER" in National Cemetery but i feel it is our Duty to help those OTJ now or coming after . The adage to "leave it a better place when we left rather than when we started" (aside from the modern day "political correctness" BS ) is on THE TABLE now. Please step forward & educate all your Family & Friends on the issue . As i have posted before & after on the sites this seriously could involve many including "ALL" NYC & NYS Uniformed Personnel for the rest of their lives regardless of whether Active or Retired ! . The upcoming Nov 2017 Vote which can be & hopefully will be participated in by ALL LIKE THINKING & UNIFORM SUPPORTING VOTERS REGISTERED IN NEW YORK STATE" WILL SHOW . PS if this goes down bad can you wait another 20 years to rectify it?

Post by GBA on Jul 23, 2017 2:56:43 GMT -5

Errol Lewis is ignoring the fact that barring some radical change in the way delegates would be selected for a constitutional convention, the professional political class will dominate the convention the same way they dominate the legislature. Those same folks can amend the NYS constitution now....without a con-con.

Post by GBA on Jul 23, 2017 3:14:19 GMT -5

I am not a "beat a dead horse guy" but they are out tooth & nails to use whatever they can for ammo but the ultimate result could be tapping into our PENSIONS. Who cares about correcting a provision in the NYS Constitution from 1887 regarding whatever. The ball is in our court get a turnout in 2017 . VOTE NO !

Post by Prosay on Jul 23, 2017 10:48:21 GMT -5

YES the Pension $ are i would think whats "glints" in their eyes , personally by the time all is said & done with any changes unfortunately if they happen i might be "ONE UNDER" in National Cemetery

Don't bet on it.

Yes, the drastic changes would come upon those presently active. But let's remember something: pensions are not taxed in NYS.

And why is that?: Right now, out of the goodness of the Legislature's hearts. What's to stop this "Con-Con" from revoking that, making the pensions taxable? And what about those who have moved away from NY? Could they have some type of "tax" imposed on them, much like NYC taxes are "imposed" on civil service workers in NYC living outside the city?

Anyone who thinks they have no dog in this "Con-Con" fight is seriously mistaken.

But keep this in mind: the Leftist/Socialists are against this Con-Con because they would rather keep things as they are, and anything they don't like, run to a sympathetic judge and get court judgements against any offenders. Why go "legislative" and have to live with that, when you can just get a court degree, which is easily ignored by the Left during their next battle, or argue that that other earlier court order was "different" than any court action they seek in the future, and get yet another court order?

Post by 5yrvet on Jul 23, 2017 13:34:38 GMT -5

It will suck when I tell my family I'll have to do another 23 years rather than two more years. I would have to continue till I'm able to collect social security (if it is even still there). Well, at that age and that many more years in the NYPD, I will have too many marbles rolling around in my head to even care. With a 401K I don't even think they can force you out. I'll just continue right into my 70's and just start doing crazy sh1t every day.

To change our pensions to the point cops have to stick around till their 60's and 70's is a very bad idea. Could you imagine a police department like ours filled with thousands of 60 and 70 year old cops on patrol. Not everyone is going to get promoted or find a cushy detail.

Post by Elmo334 on Aug 13, 2017 9:14:13 GMT -5

Chris KellyAugust 8 at 4:06pm ·

School Bus Drivers,Teachers, Police Officers, Firefighters, anyone who plans on collecting a New York State pension...you should be worried. Retired Teachers, Police Officers, Firefighters, you too should be concerned. Andrew Cuomo wants to hold a constitutional convention and change not only your pensions but your health care and bargaining rights. If the constitutional convention gets ballot approval in a November all bets are off. You will lose and those you care about will lose.The ballot itself has been rigged. When you go to vote you won't even see the proposal, as it is on the BACK of the ballot. Unless you remember to turn the ballot over YOU HAVE NO CHANCE. If you don't actively vote NO your vote is automatically read as YES.If you plan on being out of state in November, due to vacation or other circumstances, you need to get an absentee ballot. Keep or establish New York State residency, if only for voting purposes.Vote NO to the proposed Constitutional Convention. Please COPY

Post by Prosay on Aug 13, 2017 9:48:27 GMT -5

The pension grab is only one of many long-range goals of the Left with this so-called convention. It's the one that would hurt us, here, the most, and we should defeat the ballot for that reason alone.

But the Left have other ideas on how THEY want the state to run, and having their Socialist goals embedded into the state's constitution would be financial destruction for the state, at the least, and cause political turmoil at the extreme. Changes in election procedures, off-year and special elections, etc. would basically negate the whole election process.

But since upstate NY means nothing to the politicians, since they are all white racists (according to the Democrats, who will now offer as "proof" the VA "white nationals" riot), the easily-manipulated "downstate" crowd will ultimately decide the fate of the convention, especially after they get a piece of all the "walking around money" Cuomo is throwing at them.

Who was it who said, "To the Victor Goes The Spoils"?

Ironically, it was a NYS politician....

The term was derived from the phrase "to the victor belongs the spoils" by New York Senator William L. Marcy, referring to the victory of Andrew Jackson in the election of 1828, with the term spoils meaning goods or benefits taken from the loser in a competition, election or military victory.

Post by DETFORLIFE on Aug 13, 2017 10:12:24 GMT -5

And the 64,000 question is, will the teachers get on board with this or will they (like the lemmings they are) follow what their Union leaders tell them to do as usual.They're a large group, could make for a big voting block.

There is no hunting like the hunting of man, and those who have hunted armed men long enough and liked it, never care for anything else thereafter.

Post by RetirementIsParole on Aug 13, 2017 10:59:39 GMT -5

....The ballot itself has been rigged. When you go to vote you won't even see the proposal, as it is on the BACK of the ballot. Unless you remember to turn the ballot over YOU HAVE NO CHANCE. If you don't actively vote NO your vote is automatically read as YES....

Does this mean to say the proposal will only list an option to vote 'NO'? What is the source of this information?