I never said I didn't want Kronwall. At the time Wiz was becoming a UFA, we could've had Wiz and all our D-men. Then we probably wouldn't have had to trade for Quincey.

...which was my point in the beginning. Everyone said Wiz was overpaid. Columbus took the gamble, and its paying off. He is their leader on D and #2 scorer on the team. A gamble well worth it. My point was Holland should gamble for once and over pay, outbid others for Niskanen . It could very well be the gamble that pays off! Comparing our guys and Wiz was just that. He only makes a few more dollars than Kronner and E and brings every bit of what they do to rhe table, plus outscores them and defends his teammates. He earns every penny off it. Just imagine this team with Wiz on it the last three seasons instead of Q or K...

We did that with Weiss last season...Can't do it every year.

"The leader must never close the gap between himself and the group. If he does, he is no longer what he must be. He must walk a tightrope between the consent he must win and the control he must exert."Vince Lombardi

When asked who won, Babcock said, “Well it doesn’t really matter as long as you don’t lose. It’s like going bear hunting, you take a slow guy with you in case the bear is hungry.”

"The leader must never close the gap between himself and the group. If he does, he is no longer what he must be. He must walk a tightrope between the consent he must win and the control he must exert."Vince Lombardi

When asked who won, Babcock said, “Well it doesn’t really matter as long as you don’t lose. It’s like going bear hunting, you take a slow guy with you in case the bear is hungry.”

With all the talent in the UFA pool this offseason, Alfie seems to be the least critical to get. If Alfie is signed right away I'd be pissed. He should only be signed last if the other deals fall through. But is that the "proper" way to treat a vet like Alfie?

@HeleneStJames: Daniel Alfredsson & family to live in DET next season no matter what. He & #RedWings will wait till Aug to see how he feels, then talk deal.

I think this works well for both sides. It gives the Wings a chance to formulate their roster, sign and trade for whomever they feel they want to. It gives Alfie 2 months to get fully healthy and in good shape, and allows him to mentally commit to playing next year. If after a little while he doesn't feel like its going to happen, then he can walk away, no harm done.

This could be a number of different things. Babs seemed pretty clear that he wasn't overly confident in his ability to play another full season. On the other hand, maybe this is more just Alfie being like "I don't need big money. Sign some quality talent and I'll play for whatever you have left" or something.

"If I were to wish for anything, I should not wish for wealth and power, but for the passionate sense of the potential, for the eye which, ever young and ardent, sees the possible. Pleasure disappoints, possibility never. And what wine is so sparkling, what so fragrant, what so intoxicating, as possibility!" - Kierkegaard

I think this works well for both sides. It gives the Wings a chance to formulate their roster, sign and trade for whomever they feel they want to. It gives Alfie 2 months to get fully healthy and in good shape, and allows him to mentally commit to playing next year. If after a little while he doesn't feel like its going to happen, then he can walk away, no harm done.

I don't see how this is good for the wings. We have to wait until training camp conditioning to see if he can play? Meanwhile there's $9 million left to spend (after RFAs are signed) and we are in sore need of a couple key positions, Alfie is set to take half that, so there's only $4-5 million left on the table... Alfie is a good guy, he tried this season but it didn't work out. It's time to move on and make some long term moves to help this team rather then sign a guy with one foot in the old folks home that is only good for one season.

They'll sign Alfie and Cleary and there's only $3 million left. Meanwhile every team is wheeling and deeling and Holland is still convinced this no longer happens in the new NHL, that there are no more marquee players left...yet big names are all over the place.

Babs / Holland your time is up. Just resign Sammy, Bert, Cleary and Alfie and call it a day, it's obviously too dificult for your guys to get creative and bring in some fresh blood. I wish Mr. I was a few years younger...

"The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results."

I don't see how this is good for the wings. We have to wait until training camp conditioning to see if he can play? Meanwhile there's $9 million left to spend (after RFAs are signed) and we are in sore need of a couple key positions, Alfie is set to take half that, so there's only $4-5 million left on the table... Alfie is a good guy, he tried this season but it didn't work out. It's time to move on and make some long term moves to help this team rather then sign a guy with one foot in the old folks home that is only good for one season.

They'll sign Alfie and Cleary and there's only $3 million left. Meanwhile every team is wheeling and deeling and Holland is still convinced this no longer happens in the new NHL, that there are no more marquee players left...yet big names are all over the place.

Babs / Holland your time is up. Just resign Sammy, Bert, Cleary and Alfie and call it a day, it's obviously too dificult for your guys to get creative and bring in some fresh blood. I wish Mr. I was a few years younger...

"The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results."

I think blaming holland / babs for hypothetical situations that you made up in your head could be classified as insanity as well

I don't see how this is good for the wings. We have to wait until training camp conditioning to see if he can play? Meanwhile there's $9 million left to spend (after RFAs are signed) and we are in sore need of a couple key positions, Alfie is set to take half that, so there's only $4-5 million left on the table... Alfie is a good guy, he tried this season but it didn't work out. It's time to move on and make some long term moves to help this team rather then sign a guy with one foot in the old folks home that is only good for one season.

They'll sign Alfie and Cleary and there's only $3 million left. Meanwhile every team is wheeling and deeling and Holland is still convinced this no longer happens in the new NHL, that there are no more marquee players left...yet big names are all over the place.

Babs / Holland your time is up. Just resign Sammy, Bert, Cleary and Alfie and call it a day, it's obviously too dificult for your guys to get creative and bring in some fresh blood. I wish Mr. I was a few years younger...

"The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results."

But it is though. Because it allows for essentially a 'trade deadline acquisition' right at the end of the offseason while KH and co have spent two months touching up the roster, getting a better D man, and possibly acquiring someone like Iginla (outside chance but who knows).

Alfie won't' sign for a big contract, I think it was khan who said he could get something smaller like a $2m base salary and then a bunch of bonuses which would allow us to fit everything in.

Also, what if we re-signed Alfie right this minute, and he comes to camp and then he realises he can't play anymore because his back has given out? What a waste of time right? The Wings didn't sign anyone else because they thought Alfie would be the guy, so Iginla waddles of elsewhere and we're left empty handed.

Also, what if we re-signed Alfie right this minute, and he comes to camp and then he realises he can't play anymore because his back has given out? What a waste of time right? The Wings didn't sign anyone else because they thought Alfie would be the guy, so Iginla waddles of elsewhere and we're left empty handed.

This exactly. Either way we lose out on signing a better player longer term to help the team while Alfie sees if he can play with our without Geritol. We've basically handcuffed ourselves waiting for him.

I think blaming holland / babs for hypothetical situations that you made up in your head could be classified as insanity as well

It's not hypothetical, we wait until training cap to see if he can play, a large chunk of what's left in salary cap is tied up with Alfie playing / not playing. Which means we won't see any big signings... at all, because the Wings are in a wait and see hold patter. Rather then go and make the team better, now.

Also, what if we re-signed Alfie right this minute, and he comes to camp and then he realises he can't play anymore because his back has given out? What a waste of time right? The Wings didn't sign anyone else because they thought Alfie would be the guy, so Iginla waddles of elsewhere and we're left empty handed.

This exactly. Either way we lose out on signing a better player longer term to help the team while Alfie sees if he can play with our without Geritol. We've basically handcuffed ourselves waiting for him.

I think blaming holland / babs for hypothetical situations that you made up in your head could be classified as insanity as well

It's not hypothetical, we wait until training cap to see if he can play, a large chunk of what's left in salary cap is tied up with Alfie playing / not playing. Which means we won't see any big signings... at all, because the Wings are in a wait and see hold patter. Rather then go and make the team better, now.

Except that Alfie is a bonus. They're not saving room or waiting for him at all. They explicitly said they'll wait til they see if he can play before making a decision about him. This literally has no negative angle. They'll sign whoever they want and fit him in later.

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This exactly. Either way we lose out on signing a better player longer term to help the team while Alfie sees if he can play with our without Geritol. We've basically handcuffed ourselves waiting for him.

It's not hypothetical, we wait until training cap to see if he can play, a large chunk of what's left in salary cap is tied up with Alfie playing / not playing. Which means we won't see any big signings... at all, because the Wings are in a wait and see hold patter. Rather then go and make the team better, now.

Unless you're getting out of your DeLorean with Doc Brown to type on LGW, I'd say you're putting the cart before the horse and it'd probably be best to wait and see what happens before you freak out.

Unless you're getting out of your DeLorean with Doc Brown to type on LGW, I'd say you're putting the cart before the horse and it'd probably be best to wait and see what happens before you freak out.

1985 called...they want your movie reference back.

Holland has stated many times over, the old days are over, they will take a wait and see approach. If Detroit signs anyone big, or makes any big moves before training camp, I will be utterly shocked. They will wait with Alfie, because if they resign him they only have $4-5 million left. That means no Iginla, Stastny, Vanek...nobody. And Holland even said they are done giving up prospects. Do the math, tell me what other outcomes do you see, especially with Cleary banging on the door again?

Holland has stated many times over, the old days are over, they will take a wait and see approach. If Detroit signs anyone big, or makes any big moves before training camp, I will be utterly shocked. They will wait with Alfie, because if they resign him they only have $4-5 million left. That means no Iginla, Stastny, Vanek...nobody. And Holland even said they are done giving up prospects. Do the math, tell me what other outcomes do you see, especially with Cleary banging on the door again?

Haha! Back to the Future is still an awesome movie. And, I think that joke is just about as old.

I don't usually try to predict the future and try to pass it off as fact like it has already happened. But, I agree that they probably won't end up with Iginla, Stastny, or Vanek. I don't think 'nobody' will happen either, though. I think they'll make a good run at Ehrhoff and/or Niskanen... and I think either one of those guys makes more sense to sign than Iginla/Stastny/Vanek. Nothing's written in stone, though, and you never know what could happen.

Holland has stated many times over, the old days are over, they will take a wait and see approach. If Detroit signs anyone big, or makes any big moves before training camp, I will be utterly shocked. They will wait with Alfie, because if they resign him they only have $4-5 million left. That means no Iginla, Stastny, Vanek...nobody. And Holland even said they are done giving up prospects. Do the math, tell me what other outcomes do you see, especially with Cleary banging on the door again?

I think you have some good points. And it makes me think that Alfie should not be resigned, period. And if Holland does resign Alfie, there's the huge hidden cost in that he leaves no room for the plethora of awesome UFA this off-season. I hope Holland does not resign Alfie. For me, this is my last straw for Holland's reputation. If he gets Alfie (or Cleary) back and no good UFA then I'm resigned to say he truly is a terrible GM and I'd fear he's going to tank the Wings and kill the streak before he finally leaves office. There's way to rationalize the Franzen/Hossa deal and everything since... kind of... but there'd be no excuse to resign these two washed up guys instead of fishing in this awesome pool.

Haha! Back to the Future is still an awesome movie. And, I think that joke is just about as old.

I don't usually try to predict the future and try to pass it off as fact like it has already happened. But, I agree that they probably won't end up with Iginla, Stastny, or Vanek. I don't think 'nobody' will happen either, though. I think they'll make a good run at Ehrhoff and/or Niskanen... and I think either one of those guys makes more sense to sign than Iginla/Stastny/Vanek. Nothing's written in stone, though, and you never know what could happen.

It is a classic....

History is blueprint / roadmap of where we came from to help determine where we are going.

"We got seven left-hand D. I love (to have a righty), but how do you get it?" Red Wings coach Mike Babcock said over the weekend at the NHL entry draft in Philadelphia. "It's great to have this fantasy; like (general manager) Kenny Holland would tell you, there's no tree. I've been all over him, but there's no tree to grab them off of, so we'll get what we get."

Well, Babs, Babbers, Babbaganoosh... maybe if you guys stopped looking up trees every year for a right handed defensman and talked to other GMs you might find one. The magical place where our competition finds these players is on the end of a telephone, that thing with buttons on your desk, and when you press these buttons, something magical happens, you might get a chance to talk to someone who has a right handed D. If it makes you feel better, the other guy can tell you he grew an extra D on a magical tree.

Right handed D available in some capacity:

Niskanen

Byfuglin

Ehroff

Zidlicky

Boyle

Stralman

While you're looking up that magical tree, maybe you guys can grow a pair of your own little D's and pull off some deals / trades.

I was messing around on CapGeek and if the Wings re-sign all of their RFAs to reasonable cap hits and get one of Niskanen or Ehrhoff then I just don't see how Alfie could return unless he takes a significant pay-cut from what he made last year. It would be nice to have him back for some extra offense but if he decides to continue playing then it will probably have to be

elsewhere (unless this team fails to upgrade the D).

Edit: And that was even after I put in a trade to get rid of Kindl's salary.