My family were (are) all night owls except for me. But I’m no Lark neither!
What does that make me?

I’m done by 10 and sleep till 9 when I can. I also like to wake with the sun rise but don’t jump out of bed ready for the day - lazy hazy mornings are for me. But I’m also most focused in the morning if I need to get a (planned) job done that’s the time I do it. My ‘just do it’ time before I have a chance to mull n think n procrastinate.

I feel most creative at night. And wish I could stay up late but I think it’s partly the tiredness that allows me to tune in to more creative & dreamy side. Left brain is done for the day. Bring up logistics or plans at 8pm and I’ll cry.

Afternoons are pointless to me. I think this is my most sociable time. The world is too noisy to do anything else.

Yeah I agree. Well I guess ‘short term’ is relative and depends on the project/goal - at work if anything drags on for longer than 3months Ive lost interest and momentum. My work is actually pretty bad at pacing itself. Something either drags on for an age or it’s all reactive ‘now, now, now!’. Drives me mad.

schlopadoo:

I have weeks when I’m SUPER productive. 9 o’clock do this, 11 o’clock do this. Bam, bam, bam. But then there are weeks when I really don’t feel like doing anything

Yeah it seems important to allow your natural rhythms to do their thing. To allow for this in the time frame of completion. This is where me & my boss differ. If I set my own schedule I can allow for this and be productive within and hit deadlines with ease. My boss does not like or understand this and expect a consistent level of activity by the time it takes to complete a task (by her estimation) so wants to plan everyone’s time hour by hour every day with no allowance for, well, being human! Micromanagement extreme.

Lots of great stuff here! @schlopadoo I really appreciate your long, thoughtful response and apologize that it has taken me so long to respond. I’ve been dealing with a bit of a post-holiday winter funk. I’m feeling low energy, no motivation, meanwhile everybody else around me is riding the wave of their New Years resolutions — work harder and faster, be better, do more, etc.

Ti has been a constant curse in more ways than one, and Fe occasionally gets up and decides to take an impromptu vacation. I imagine Fi has stepped in somewhere in the mix, but if I”m being honest, I’m not really sure what functions are what at times because feelings resemble thoughts resemble feelings, etc, and they all come from God only knows where and hit me like a freight train. I should mention my wife and I are expecting our second child soon — she is an INTJ. Maybe I’m picking up on her emotions and can’t tell the difference?

schlopadoo:

I relate to practically all of your posts here. Like you, I’m also in a high-Ti job (science PhD student), and I have the same sort of Ti and Te problems as you. We must be the same INFJ subtype.

What is it that drew you to the sciences and convinced you to go all the way?

schlopadoo:

So yes, I felt caught in a sea of torment. All stuck in abstraction and conflicting thoughts. Then many different abstract solutions to “solve” my little problems, but none manifesting into actual actions.

Inaction is a big hurdle for me. I constantly have the feeling that I need to be doing something, but often lack the drive to actually do it. Complete burnout. It doesn’t stop me from dreaming or even mentally branching out from one idea to the next … but rest assured it will fail to actualize.

schlopadoo:

Nobody really talks about it, but eating disorders…that stuff is not all about just food or weight. It’s like a weird abstract struggle of inner problems, whatever they are depends on the person. The sufferer simply chooses to let eating rituals stand as a symbol for whatever issues they have.

I tend to have phases where I’m nonstop hungry and just can’t seem to satisfy the hunger. They aren’t all that frequent, but I also have phases of collecting things. I buy 10x of everything in case one breaks, etc. If one does break, I get the urge to buy 10 more out of fear that the item will disappear from the face of the earth and I’ll never be able to get it again. So I can definitely see where a lot of these behaviors relate with one another … It’s not quite the same thing as your experience, but I can grasp where you are coming from. Sometimes it’s about filling a void, other times it’s about the need for security. Either way, it has little to do with indulgence and a lot to do with an emptiness that needs to be filled.

schlopadoo:

I think short term deadlines are also good for the INFJ. My days are always most productive when I instinctively choose - I need to focus on X aspect of my project or X experiment

Milestones and reasonable deadlines do make things easier, although I lack restraint when I get too creative. I lose my focus and start wandering in all directions. I can’t begin to tell you how many times I’ve gotten stressed over a deadline and out of nowhere took a detour, completely ignoring the fact that my remaining time was withering away one minute at a time. Taking a step back, I think in these moments I am just looking for a distraction; something to bring me back into a flow state. Music is really the only thing that I can count on to bring the flow state about. I have a sensitivity to my environment, especially while I’m trying to concentrate; silence is loud and obnoxious, but so is the sound of conversation happening around me on a silent backdrop. Bright lights, people moving around, strong scents, etc. So the music – as much as a distraction as it could be – is also the distraction I usually need to tune out everything else.

schlopadoo:

Fe-ing is probably very important, and could singly be the best solution to your problem. But like you, it’s something I struggle with. I hardly have time or energy to do morning pages most of the time in a high-stress, no life/all work lifestyle.

For sure. I did manage to keep up with morning pages for a good week or so, but like all other habits I try to set, deadlines and distractions derail me. Even if only by a few minutes daily, I keep pushing my wake time until I barely have enough time to get ready for work, let alone write 3 pages. So, I really think that my tendency to run everything up to the final minute is what creates the sense of pressure and anxiety that gets me locked into the loop. There’s more to it, but it’s a self-defeating cycle that starts with me. I just haven’t really figured out the best way to put a stop to that cycle.

schlopadoo:

Not to the mention the ENTJish/xSTPish mood of my close work environment. Simply unpleasant as fuck. All work, no community feeling, no consideration for others, no room for breathing or enjoying, all competence, but very shallow in terms of intellectual depth, too concrete, “discussion” disguised as bullying and blathering off like a peacock, no interest in others’ work, too business-like and strategic, bling-like “creativity” but not refreshing and truly inspiring creativity…Which all left me too tired at the end of the day or the start of the day to open up and Fe a little in my notebook…

Yea … I come into contact with plenty of the harsher types such as those. They can be really off-putting. I don’t really think like an engineer; definitely not in a linear fashion. I’m also not typically great at producing factual information or answering point blank questions, so getting grilled for information by these types leaves me flustered while I fumble around in my head to try to find answers to the most basic questions. The greater the level of precision a co-worker is expecting, the more trouble I have producing any information. I can at least have deep intellectual conversations with ENTJs, especially the healthier ones. Regardless of type though, many of the engineer type individuals rub me the wrong way. I recently had a conversation with a co-worker where I made a comment about how I thought companies did not put enough effort into making their products intuitive. He responded, “That’s not true. Prove it.” Most other conversations revolve around how stupid everybody else is, and picking out every personal and professional flaw in every individual he comes into contact with. I’m sure that pretty much describes what the workday feels like.

I’ve surprised myself as I have also become more assertive, but I also notice that I lack objectivity and therefore don’t have enough confidence to make many of my opinions or thoughts known.

schlopadoo:

I often like talking to ENTPs to bounce off on ideas. INFPs are also fun and open my mind a bit more.

schlopadoo:

I tend to talk to INTJs…even ISTJs for advice.

I tend to vent and/or have leisurely conversation with my INFP friends, meanwhile I really dig deep and explore ideas with my INxJ friends. I tend to mesh surprisingly well with xNTJ types, although depending on how much calculation is required, I can eventually lose focus in the conversation. But fore sure, the xNTJs I know have been incredible about bringing perspective into my life. I would pick their brains all day if I could. Probably doesn’t help that INTJs secretly admire INFJs, and INFJs try to become INTJs.

If you happen to have the drive to do some writing, don’t be afraid to explore the endless possibilities that your thoughts branch out into. Just make sure to jot it all down. If you write down those little bits and pieces – perhaps even use mind maps – you would be surprised at how much inspiration you could draw from visualizing the information later on. Start raw, and filter down to the most important bits later.

@schlopadoo just out of curiosity, have you done much research into the enneagram? I’ve been reading the book “Personality Types: Using the Enneagram for Self-Discovery”, and I think it’s been very insightful. I test as a 4w5.

schlopadoo:

We must be the same INFJ subtype.

Perhaps we are the same enneagram type? I don’t really know much about MBTI subtypes as of yet.

I don’t know a lot about enneagram but I know the basics…the different types, wings, point of disintegration/integration, vices, virtues etc.

mana:

I test as a 4w5.

mana:

Perhaps we are the same enneagram type?

So Blake classifies all INFJs as enneagram 4. Before, it was specifically 4w5, but now he is not sure. So logically, both of us are enneagram 4…And yes, I test as enneatype type 4…

It’s a bit confusing with regards to the word “subtype,” because the meaning depends on the context. There is the enneagram subtype which is a very broad category (the next class in order after the MBTI type). Probably not more than two enneagram subtypes per MBTI type. And in the case of the INFJ type, ALL INFJs are enneagram 4s, so there is no enneagram subtype for us as opposed to let’s say ENFJs (types 3 and 8) or ENFPs (types 3 and 7).

What I actually meant when I said “subtype” in this case was individual subtypes, which are the rising and moon impressions that any one individual may give off regardless of their core sun type (i.e. MBTI type). So this subtype works on an individual basis, and is ingenious since it accounts for the huge variation found within a given MBTI type. Blake did not get into too much depth about how he came up with this system, as he only introduced it just recently, but he briefly explained what he meant by the rising and moon subtypes in this post: https://www.stellarmaze.com/tenumbrations/#comment-21264

Just to clarify, the rising and moon subtypes do not correspond to one’s astrological rising or moon signs, although they can influence one’s “overall” rising/moon impressions. There was a little warmup exercise in identifying the rising subtype in his most recent posts, if you wanna check it out: https://www.stellarmaze.com/te-tenumbra-plus-guess-her-subtype/

Hehe, in any case. Can’t say we share the exact same rising and moon subtypes, but both of us seem like we have some Te/Ti thing going on. Now that you updated your profile pic, I get an xNTP rising impression, but of course that’s just a still photo…Personally, I think I could be ISTJ rising and INFP/ENFP moon…

Ya… Used to work as an editor a while back but got misanthropic and quit. Can’t check other people’s writing for extended periods of time. Wakes my inner Hitler. Gosh, my ENFJ boss she had a hard time dealing with me, I member.

natinka:

All earth signs are connected to ×STJ somehow. (I think??)

All earth signs are connected with S. Strengthwise, with SP/SJ the most. See the chart!