widfola wrote:Is there a specific etymology of the word anapanasati, that would clarify if it is WITH or OF?

This may not help much, but this is from: Maha Thera Nyanatiloka. Manual of Buddhist Terms and Doctrines, Buddhist Publication Society, first edition 1952.

Ānāpāna-sati: Awareness or mindfulness on & by in-and-out-breathing, is one of the most important trainings for reaching mental concentration and the 4 absorptions jhāna. In the Satipatthāna Sutta M. 10, D. 22 and elsewhere, 4 methods of practice are given, which may also serve as basis for insight meditation. The speech on Awareness by Breathing' Ānāpānasati Sutta, M. 118 and other texts have 16 methods of practice, which divide into 4 groups of four. The first three apply to both calm samatha and insight-meditation, while the fourth refers to pure insight praxis only. With attentive mind he breathes in, with attentive mind he breathes out.

widfola wrote:Is there a specific etymology of the word anapanasati, that would clarify if it is WITH or OF?

This may not help much, but this is from: Maha Thera Nyanatiloka. Manual of Buddhist Terms and Doctrines, Buddhist Publication Society, first edition 1952.

Ānāpāna-sati: Awareness or mindfulness on & by in-and-out-breathing, is one of the most important trainings for reaching mental concentration and the 4 absorptions jhāna. In the Satipatthāna Sutta M. 10, D. 22 and elsewhere, 4 methods of practice are given, which may also serve as basis for insight meditation. The speech on Awareness by Breathing' Ānāpānasati Sutta, M. 118 and other texts have 16 methods of practice, which divide into 4 groups of four. The first three apply to both calm samatha and insight-meditation, while the fourth refers to pure insight praxis only. With attentive mind he breathes in, with attentive mind he breathes out.

Pāṇātipātā (veramaṇī sikkhā-padaṃ samādiyāmi).(I undertake the training rule to refrain from )taking life.

"Breathing-beings-killing (I undertake the training rule to refrain from ).

[My Pali is too rudimentary to attempt to unpack the "refrain from" phrase, but the thing to refrain from is always at the start of each phrase...]

I mention this, because I was at a discussion about the precepts led by a lay person a few months ago and I remarked that the first precept is literally about not killing breathing beings, and the meaning was related to Ānāpānasati. This seemed to startle her, for some reason that I couldn't quite work out...

Pāṇātipātā (veramaṇī sikkhā-padaṃ samādiyāmi).(I undertake the training rule to refrain from )taking life.

"Breathing-beings-killing (I undertake the training rule to refrain from ).

[My Pali is too rudimentary to attempt to unpack the "refrain from" phrase, but the thing to refrain from is always at the start of each phrase...]

I mention this, because I was at a discussion about the precepts led by a lay person a few months ago and I remarked that the first precept is literally about not killing breathing beings, and the meaning was related to Ānāpānasati. This seemed to startle her, for some reason that I couldn't quite work out...

MettaMike

This offering maybe right, or wrong, but it is one, the other, both, or neither!Blog,-Some Suttas Translated,Ajahn Chah."Others will misconstrue reality due to their personal perspectives, doggedly holding onto and not easily discarding them; We shall not misconstrue reality due to our own personal perspectives, nor doggedly holding onto them, but will discard them easily. This effacement shall be done."

Mindfulness is recollection or memory. It is possible to be aware of the breathing but it is not possible to remember or recollect the breathing because it is only possible to remember mental phenomena.

It might be helpful to remember that while sati in pali had the Pre-Buddhist meaning of "remembering", It very rarely appears in this context within the Tipitaka. Often the Buddha would take a word or concept within the language and society of the time and put a new spin on it (Gombrich [i think]). I have a vague recollection of Ven. Nyanponika Thera saying something about this in 'The Heart of Buddhist meditation' with regards to sati, I'll have a hunt.

mettaJack

Last edited by BlackBird on Mon Mar 29, 2010 9:21 pm, edited 2 times in total.

"For a disciple who has conviction in the Teacher's message & lives to penetrate it, what accords with the Dhamma is this:'The Blessed One is the Teacher, I am a disciple. He is the one who knows, not I." - MN. 70 Kitagiri Sutta

sanskrit 'prana' means life. However in this case 'ana' 'pana' means 'in' 'out' as far as I am aware. So it literally means 'mindfulness of in and out breathing'. If you want to be mindful of other things there is the world to pick from in the satipatthana sutta. However if you look at the instructions in the anapanasati sutta it seems to suggest WITH as much as OF. (with mind, with joy, with etc etc)

rowyourboat wrote:sanskrit 'prana' means life. However in this case 'ana' 'pana' means 'in' 'out' as far as I am aware. So it literally means 'mindfulness of in and out breathing'. If you want to be mindful of other things there is the world to pick from in the satipatthana sutta. However if you look at the instructions in the anapanasati sutta it seems to suggest WITH as much as OF. (with mind, with joy, with etc etc)

Hi RYBWould you mind to elaborate, particularly the underlined part you placed in brackets.

This offering maybe right, or wrong, but it is one, the other, both, or neither!Blog,-Some Suttas Translated,Ajahn Chah."Others will misconstrue reality due to their personal perspectives, doggedly holding onto and not easily discarding them; We shall not misconstrue reality due to our own personal perspectives, nor doggedly holding onto them, but will discard them easily. This effacement shall be done."

I would say the first two steps in the first tetrad refer specifically to mindfulness OF breathing. There is some doubt regarding the third and fourth steps due to the ambiguity of the term "whole body", whether it refers to the breath body or the physical body. The second, third and fourth tetrads corresponding to feelings, mind and dhammas, are specifically mindfulness WITH breathing .This is supported by Buddhadasa and Analayo who both say that "Awareness of breathing in and out forms the background to each step." See Analayo's Satipatthana commentary along with Buddhadasa's Mindfulness with Breathing.

The heart of the path is SO simple. No need for long explanations. Give up clinging to love and hate, just rest with things as they are. That is all I do in my own practice. Do not try to become anything. Do not make yourself into anything. Do not be a meditator. Do not become enlightened. When you sit, let it be. When you walk, let it be. Grasp at nothing. Resist nothing. Of course, there are dozens of meditation techniques to develop samadhi and many kinds of vipassana. But it all comes back to this - just let it all be. Step over here where it is cool, out of the battle. - Ajahn Chah

The thread will be temporarily locked for some house-keeping. Some sweeping needs to be done, then we shall open it.

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++++++++++++++++This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

There is freedom from birth, freedom from becoming, freedom from making, freedom from conditioning. If there were not this freedom from birth, freedom from becoming, freedom from making, freedom from conditioning, then escape from that which is birth, becoming, making, conditioning, would not be known here. -- Ud 80

Ar scáth a chéile a mhaireas na daoine.People live in one another’s shelter.

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Ben

PS: Thanks Tilt for your housekeeping!

“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.” - Cormac McCarthy, The Road

Learn this from the waters:in mountain clefts and chasms,loud gush the streamlets,but great rivers flow silently.- Sutta Nipata 3.725

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++++++++++++++++This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

There is freedom from birth, freedom from becoming, freedom from making, freedom from conditioning. If there were not this freedom from birth, freedom from becoming, freedom from making, freedom from conditioning, then escape from that which is birth, becoming, making, conditioning, would not be known here. -- Ud 80

Ar scáth a chéile a mhaireas na daoine.People live in one another’s shelter.

BlackBird wrote:I have a vague recollection of Ven. Nyanponika Thera saying something about this in 'The Heart of Buddhist meditation' with regards to sati, I'll have a hunt.

Ven. Nyanaponika Thera wrote:The title.-In the compound Pali term 'sati-patthana', the first word sati had originally the meaning of 'memory', 'rememberance'. In Buddhist usage, however, and particularly in the Pali scriptures, it has only occasionally retained that meaning of remembering past events. It mostly refers there to the present, and as a general psychological term it carries the meaning of 'attention' or 'awareness'.

- Pg. 9. The Heart of Buddhist Meditation

"For a disciple who has conviction in the Teacher's message & lives to penetrate it, what accords with the Dhamma is this:'The Blessed One is the Teacher, I am a disciple. He is the one who knows, not I." - MN. 70 Kitagiri Sutta