But the point is that Japanese copy of a 4104 would be a really good bus - it'd have much of the character and classic appeal of the original but with all the advantages of modern technology. Jeremy

Then you probably dont mind that Rolls Royce and Cooper are now owned by BMW and made in Germany, some argue they are now better cars??

The old WW2 crowd that were watching Britain get blasted to bits, it must about break their hearts seeing that.

I dont really care if someone can make something better, some things are meant to be the way their meant to be. If I want something that looks like a Harley, it will be. If I want a car that looks and runs like a MB, it will be. Not saying I dont like good copies, but I can understand a company trying to protect their product, name, reputation, etc..

Now as far as GM and the 4104, it is my understanding it was Greyhound who approached GM to make them, and it was greyhound who more or less designed them so they could get what "they" wanted. As such, is it really a GM at all? I'd want a hound on the front of mine, lol.

Now as far as GM and the 4104, it is my understanding it was Greyhound who approached GM to make them, and it was greyhound who more or less designed them so they could get what "they" wanted. As such, is it really a GM at all? I'd want a hound on the front of mine, lol.

You've got the 4104 mixed up with the 4501, aka the Scenicruiser.

If you're a true busnut, you should have a copy of Larry Plachno's "Mondern Intercity Coaches" in your library. Lots of good bus history in that publication.

You know, the monequer of busnut has been something ive really tried to avoid most of my life. I try not to even remember 1988, the second hottest driest summer on record up in Minnesota, when we listened to some moron tell us how much aluminum was (more like wasnt) on a Bus. I try to forget that me and my dad and our friend all had cracked ribs at the same time from wrecking Buses that summer (falling off ladders), or how we kept making each other laugh so it hurt. But taking them apart, ripping the aluminum skin off was kind of sad, like skinning a Whale who's species would soon be extinct. We really didnt care much about Transits, but a coach like a 4104, or an 4106, those we never liked wrecking.

I read a book on the history of Greyhound some years ago. I guess that was where I got the impression GM was just the middle man, doing what Greyhound asked. That that arrangement was what got them in trouble with Congress for collusion, that GM wasnt selling Buses to any other competitors. That that was, among other reasons, the impetus behind the beginings of MCI.

Anyway, I guess if I crank my head around everytime I see a Bus, or get excited everytime I see its an oldie like an 04, or an Eagle, or Prevo Conversion, or am goofy enough to bring home books from the Library about Buses, im probably a Busnut. At least I seem to be in good company.

Then you probably dont mind that Rolls Royce and Cooper are now owned by BMW and made in Germany, some argue they are now better cars??

- and-

Now as far as GM and the 4104, it is my understanding it was Greyhound who approached GM to make them, and it was greyhound who more or less designed them so they could get what "they" wanted. As such, is it really a GM at all? I'd want a hound on the front of mine, lol.

So you must be really upset that Greyhound is now owned by the British...?

It may be hard to believe (and I don't really understand it myself) but there's very very little 'product patriotism' here. I was reading an article about this phenomenon just a couple of days ago. There is absolutely no British equivalent to the 'Buy American' movement - in fact we have laws that say that public institutions (councils, emergency services, government bodies) must always buy the 'best' when spending taxpayer's money, irrespective of where it is made - the point is to give British manufacturers nowhere to hide and forces them to be world-class or go out of business.

Rolls Royces and Minis are designed and built by British people in British factories. Hondas, Nissans and Toyotas are too. Does anything beyond that really matter much? Sure, some of the profit will flow out the country, but an awful lot of it stays in the UK in many different forms

And by the way...[Pedant mode back on]....Cooper is not the name of the company! The American misunderstanding of the name Cooper has always really annoyed me - as does Americans who call Land Rovers 'Rovers' - Rover and Cooper were both entirely different companies! Rover was a British car builder (nothing to do with the 4x4s), and Cooper was a very small independent tuning company, whose name is now used as a badge on a Mini model. It's exactly like referring to all Mercedes as 'AMGs' because some of them have AMG badges on the back.