one issue I do raise up is the "library issue". it's the same story year-in, year-out for many years.

let me give you a more general example.suppose you buy a programming library. it costs US$2,000 to license. it comes with all the features you needed and the vendor's web-pages tell of many success stories. you buy it, and then start to integrate it into your program. All seems to goes well until you start getting complaints... the library vendor supports you a little and then, later ignores you... you get stuck with a nightmare situation: you tell your boss you spent US$2,000 and need to buy another library to fix the probem, or try to fix the library a bit here and a bit there, and try to please your customer.

Who gets the blame? I don't know the answer. I re-wrote HelpMaker nearly 30 times before I got it correct.

In the case of HelpMaker, I went through nearly 10 image-library vendors, 5 calendar-and-planner-library vendors, 6 Treeview-library vendors, 15 database-library vendors... and so on... it stopped some time ago when I got my own in-house developers to write code for me instead.

Sally, I for one do not feel offended in any way - I'm not quite sure what Doublewitt is refering to by his comment about Troublemaker - I'm hoping that he is making a joke but that is for him to make clear. So, keep up the good work - I am eagerly awaiting the release of Helpmaker v8 celtichare

Me2. Would welcome an alternative do Do-Organizer. As mentioned before I tried your 7.3 version yesterday - and it does have the same look and feel. If its aim is to become a fully fledged PIM, perhaps changing the name to something more PIM-friendly would make sense.

Not sure how others feel but I am wondering whether the HelpMaker discussion can be placed into it's own thread as there is a danger of getting the GemX stuff mixed up with the HelpMaker discussion.

I can't say for sure but I think Doublewitt was just questioning the value of publicly 'dismantling' (listing all the libraries etc used) another developers software in open forum at the same time as promoting a competitors software.

I am sure the Helpmaker application discussion would benefit from its own thread away from the many mixed feelings that are plainly felt in connection to the GemX situation.

Fair point - maybe Sally could start the new Helpmaker thread and we can contunue to follow the progress there. As for GemX I have yet to receive a reply to my many DSM's none of which have been offensive - quite the opposite. I grieve the situation they are now in having purchased the software because it is quite simply the best total PIM concept and I can't understand why some of the big players in software haven't sought to come up with anything close to what they were trying to do. If they get their act together then I may well continue to use it unless something else captures my imagination - currently using Essentuial PIM and would like to see TreeDBNotes improve their scheduler/calendar function - anyone seen ichronoshttp://www.ichronos.info/ it looks very smart but at the moment it is a little lacking in functionality - very stylish and could be the surprise new kid on the block??

I can't say for sure but I think Doublewitt was just questioning the value of publicly 'dismantling' (listing all the libraries etc used) another developers software in open forum at the same time as promoting a competitors software.

I am sure the Helpmaker application discussion would benefit from its own thread away from the many mixed feelings that are plainly felt in connection to the GemX situation.

Just a thought.

Kindly,

No offense either from my end, I just find that approach about GemX a bit rough. Yes, I was kinda being serious and funny at the same time... Anyways, they are going through a rough time - why make it worse for them? Generally, I think that software developers should be careful about how they refer to one another in the public arena. If you want to win clients to your software project, don't degrade or devalue other projects... I think that's just simple common sense. Otherwise, it opens the door to misunderstandings... I don't want to give the impression that I'm totally defending Gemx, though it might seem that way, but it's more an issue for defending principles...

Yes, I believe it's a good idea for Sally to introduce her software officially in this thread:

suppose you buy a programming library. it costs US$2,000 to license. it comes with all the features you needed and the vendor's web-pages tell of many success stories. you buy it, and then start to integrate it into your program. All seems to goes well until you start getting complaints... the library vendor supports you a little and then, later ignores you... you get stuck with a nightmare situation: you tell your boss you spent US$2,000 and need to buy another library to fix the probem, or try to fix the library a bit here and a bit there, and try to please your customer.

Thanks for the tips. Seeing "we" are not programmers, its interesting to know about these issues. It gives us more insight about the complications developers face in their jobs... I always thought how "cool" it would be if developers would help us understand more... maybe that way, we could stand behind them and not always immediately assume other things... If they would "talk" to us more, like that [above quote], we could be more understanding and assist them with more meaningful attitudes.

If they would "talk" to us more, like that [above quote], we could be more understanding and assist them with more meaningful attitudes.

I think that Sally and I are more than willing to talk to non-programmers!

I personnally do not share her point of view on using off-the-shelf components. I think that if you choose your components wisely, you tap into the work of others to come up with a product which would not be possible otherwise. Wanting to re-invent the world is something that, I as a programmer, am not interested in doing. Of course that means dealing with some component bugs, finding work-arounds, putting pressure on the manufacturer to fix more important issues. But the end-result can be quite impressive. I think that SQLNotes is a good example of the combination of just the right components to come up with a truly unique product.

I've just completed a proposal for a vehicle fleet management software using SQLNotes (see image below), others use it for CRM, others as a PIM. Such flexibility comes from the unique design AND the components features that were chosen.

I can see there are people here that are willing to forgive them and forget - I'm not one of them.

Well, I guess, I'm going to contradict the common trend. For the past 8 years, I've searched and have been through all the hassles you could imagine on the NET - and I think everybody knows what I mean (surfing, reading, downloads, installs, uninstalls, forums, start, and restart, etc. [not to mention what that does to your system]). The truth is, I have never seen anything like do-O and I mean NOTHING! Their work is so talented and creative and they delivered a good software that I can say has a touch of class. Look, let's face it, despite things, do-O is outstanding. And I know that for now, there is no other to match the inspiration behind do-O. I don't care what you tell me. You can criticize me, ridicule me, and whatever, but look, it doesn't really matter. I'm sticking it out with them. I think they deserve it. You watch, maybe within the next 6 months, things will shape up. Needless to say, I've been through endless ordeals with almost every developer - I really don't think that anyone out there is perfect. But I do honestly think that no one deserves it like GemX does - regardless. There's not one thing anyone here can say to change my mind. I still think that GemX will continue to out-do others. They have enough talent to do so. They have done an outstanding job! I believe in them and I really think that they will come through...

I'm not sure what to write here - I almost wrote from the same conflicted perspective yesterday (or the day before, after reading Peter Brooks' comments on the origins and fate of the forum as posted by Ron) - I feel a bit confllicted. I"ve accomplished two of my three goals, which were to get GemX to communicate with its customers (via its website - accomplished), to get GemX to communicate directly with me regarding my concerns about the state of Do-Organizer (dismal failure - all I wanted was some reassurance that the product was going to continue to be developed and supported), and three to obtain a refund while I could in the event that objective two failed (accomplished). I would far rather have continued to have been a Do-Organizer user/customer. I feel that in pursuing my third goal, I accomplished the first. Perhaps I give myself too much credit...

The conflicted perspective? I didn't want this to turn out like this. I agree with doublewitt - the product has huge potential and I hope GemX can put this episode behind them and realise that potential. I'm on the fence at the moment WRT whether or not I'll be along for the ride. I do feel that they've got their work cut out for them in managing the fallout from the past three months, but hope that they are able to do so.

"Some people have a way with words, other people,... oh... have not way" - Steve Martin

I have to agree with Doublewitt. I have searched for and downloaded quite a few products, (some I even purchased) that I thought would suit my needs Nothing that I tried before I downloaded do-O, and nothing that I have downloaded and tried since I purchased do-O is capable of comparing with do-Organizer. GemX has put together the best software of it's kind that I have found so far. I have every confidence that we will see some great improvements and additions to do-Organizer. I will continue to use do-Organizer, and I'm certain that I wont be sorry.

The conflicted perspective? I didn't want this to turn out like this. I agree with doublewitt - the product has huge potential and I hope GemX can put this episode behind them and realise that potential. I'm on the fence at the moment WRT whether or not I'll be along for the ride. I do feel that they've got their work cut out for them in managing the fallout from the past three months, but hope that they are able to do so.

The point is: the more we "complain" and "rant", the more we move away from the correct perspective. You can get so carried away with such things till you become blind to the truth - which is: well, if you think about it enough, the more you continue like that, the more you actually work against yourself - why? because that developer (GemX), will probably come around and provide just what you need. In a sense, they already have, but more progress will be made and you will benefit from it. But if you keep jabbing them in the back and everywhere possible on the net (reviews), you're only working against yourself... you are wasting your time, and you just might plainly regret it... and what will you have accomplished? I figure, a rare product like that should be taken into into a sensible perspective. And yes, sometimes, to get somewhere, and hold that perspective, you have to jump-the-hurdle. You have to help one another out... Often, people will support developers ONLY when things go well, - the minute things don't roll as they should, "that's it! - I've had enough". But it's then that your support counts the most - when the going gets rough! Development and funds go hand-in-hand, the more you destroy the incoming funds process, less developments will be made. Who will suffer? - you! Why demolish your own opportunity? What's the point? Just wait, - things will change. I've realized through discussion with them, that they are solidly determined to continue their mission.

Look, I got into that "attitude" like everybody else, I'm not perfect( ), but I figure it's time to get my attitude in line for a healthy perspective... and for do-O, I'm ready to "do-O it!" Everyday, I still enjoy using it... and what a pleasure!!!

Are you afraid they'll blacklist you or something? Or that they will stop developing the product because of this thread?

Or are these apologies to the GemX developers? Confessions about an uncontrollable addiction to GemX products -- despite bugs, bad support and somewhat wrong advertisement?

There are ways to say things, of course, but what is said is said, and it's good that it was said.

Anyway. I can tell you that I've tried Do Organizer and, yes, found it VERY impressive.

But, here's my own take on some negative aspects :

- a bit buggy (which made it unreliable -- sorry I won't go into specific details : others have)- impossible to sync with my palm- doesn't interoperate as well as others with other office applications- and "internal industrial strength GemX DobermanDB™ database engine" doesn't inspire me much confidence. What's that? I'd rather have my info stored in a well known database format -- the GemX DobermanDB™ database engine may very well be extraordinary, but I'd like to know a tad more before I surrender my data to it.- etc.

They brought this upon themselves. Noone is denoying that the product is good and unique (at the moment) despite the bugs. But if you treat your customers with disrespect then you cant complain about negative posts and act like the victim. By using their product people are depending on them and that carries a responsibility. People have placed their trust in your product. Noone wanted to post negative posts - people were pissed off. To the extent they they went to the trouble, aggrevation and time to get a refund back. And to actively search the internet and find this forum and try to find out what's going on. People have better things to do than waste time on things like that.

In the 2-3 months they dissapeared, they must have received 200-300 messages from their clients. Not taking into account all the posts on this forum. And they didnt reply to a single one. It would have taken 30 seconds of their time to post a reply and give an explanation. This is unbelievably disrepectful and unprofessional. And this includes people who have dedicated time to beta testing their program and you Tiptop who spent so much time maintaining the forum. Which by the way I find the most bizzare - that you guys were as much in the dark as the rest of us. I think maybe you are too understanding Tiptop considering the way they treated you and the only reason you are siding with them is because you find the product so usefull. I think your previous posts here were more truthfull. Have you become their spokesman? Are they unable to explain what happened themselves (and need to hide behind pre-prepared statements on their website). Do you let people in real life treat you like that?

They need to be honest and respectful to their customers and not shroud the product in secrecy. I am using their product at the moment but am actively looking for an alternative. Sadly I doubt that much will change with the company. What leads me to believe that is that they didn't even have the decency, common courtesy and respect to post a reply to this forum (and give an honest explanation of what happened). How sad is that?

Look, you guys, you got your point of views and I got mine...If do-O simply doesn't suit you, then move on...

I simply thought things over and for me, well, that's where it's at. Generally, I don't see much point about negative reviews about developers 'cause I've seen loads of them and shortly after, the problems were resolved - but the negative review remains even after corrections. So the question might be asked: what good is it? It's just hinders - that's all. What good does it accomplish? I can't find any sensible answers to it... I see that kind of stuff everywhere on the net. I've seen companies put out great efforts with updates and problem corrections but the "negative" reviews hang in there just-the-same... I have rarely seen someone turn-around and go through all the threads where reviews were posted and change that "message" to a positive one after discovering adequate solutions presented by developers for their software. Normally, when people post negative reviews, they abandon a project - so they never go back... it has a sort of "permanent effect".

I'm not acting as their spokesman here, certainly not, but rather, just expressing my personal point of view - no one has to agree with it, ofcourse. But that's how I see things...

You were "pissed off" - who wasn't? - but the point is, it's over for me. I no longer want to look at things through that angle. I have to forget it so I can move forward... otherwise, I feel like I'm just hindering myself...

I am starting to think that tiptop is happy because he got his name mentioned on their forum page with a thank you. I, as a paying customer, who was treated with such disrespect just like him, am not about to let this go that easily. If they took the time and posted the name of every customer who they wronged in this incident, maybe, but they did not. They posted a thanks to people who contributed on their forums and made no mention of an apology to their paying customers for their disappearance or for their support. This is why I have just spent the money I did on a device dedicated to the purpose and task which I originally purchased Do-O for.

I am sorry, but you know, if you are getting upset at us for remaining upset with GemX, perhaps you should step back and understand that the paying customers are well within their right to remain pissed off. I am not going to dwell on it, for one, but I am not going to be going back to them. They have lost me as a customer. I will not be recommending their product AT ALL to anyone simply due to the [lack of] support that they have shown me since BEFORE I PURCHASED the product.

All of the recent GemX events have certainly polarized the users. On this forum, we've seen everything from genuine anger and rage to shock and disbelief to forgiveness. One day the forum was there and the next day it was not. In some respects, it was like the parent who changed his/her mind and moved out of the house. The forum members became orphans.

Had the software not had a broad vision or so many different modules and capabilities, I wonder if the reactions would have been so strong. Had the early user support not been so remarkable, how many users would have invested so heavily in the development process?

DO-Organizer looked like some sort of grail, where everything would fit into it somewhere. In looking at walking away from it, several pieces of software would probably be needed to replace its functions.

I haven't seen such strong feelings about software in quite awhile. Each of us must consider and form our own opinion about how to manage, talk/write and plan. Some of us will walk away and never look back...that is some piece of software, though, isn't it?

The Ecco die hard fans are also very... emotional... about their precious software. Just take a look at the http://tech.groups.y....com/group/ecco_pro/ in recent days. Everytime SQLNotes is mentioned there, some seem ready to take up arms and go to war!