If this is your first visit, be sure to
check out the FAQ by clicking the
link above. You may have to register
before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages,
select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.

The news has corrected themselves. He (younger brother) killed his mother at home and then drove to the school and started shooting. His older brother is at his house in NJ as is the father. Mixed reporting on whether they live together. Older brother reports the younger brother had some mental problems. What is not reported yet is a definitive answer on the guy in the field that was removed in handcuffs. Guesses range from 1) he was just a by-stander that ran like heck to 2) he was connected to the shooter.

Shooting appears to be with hand-guns although the hue and cry has already started about "assault weapons".

We have got to accept the fact that mental illness occurs in the population a lot more often than the population of the hospitals and community centers would lead us to believe. We see lots of episodic and minor illnesses. They come and they go. However, we seem to feel that mental illness only comes on as a really obvious and overt act. By the time the overt act happens, it's often too late.

Reports I heard said that the shooter, Adam, age 20, was first mis-identified as his older brother, Ryan, 24, since he was carrying Ryan's ID.

The school did have a system to "buzz in" people. It is suspected that Adam was known at the school, due to his mother working there, and that is why he was allowed to enter the building. He also seemed to know which classroom his mother worked in.

There is a dead man in Hoboken, NJ. At first he was said to be the shooter's father, but later they seemed to back down on exactly who the man was.

20 children died. 2 had been taken to the hospital and died there. 6 adults at the school, and the 7th was the shooter, himself, who took his own life. But also heard conflicting reports that the total adults killed were 27, but the mother would have made 28; and the man in NJ 29. At first it sounded as if his mother was at the school, since it was her kindergarten class that was attacked. So the total number is not clear.

One report said that two of the teachers took children to one of the bathrooms and locked the door. Maybe schools need a "safe room" (or several of them) to protect against a situation like this? There was a lot of praise for how the teachers kept their heads about them during this situation; and when it was over & they were able to evacuate the survivors to the nearby firehouse.

My brain simply can't imagine any human being doing this horror. Makes me wonder if he was on some kind of drugs.

G.Clinchy@gmail.com"Know in your heart that all things are possible. We couldn't conceive of a miracle if none ever happened." -Libby Fudim

​I don't use the PM feature, so just email me direct at the address shown above.

Would it be possible to still protect the 2nd amendment rights of responsible gun owners, and yet weed out those who are less than responsible. Perhaps a coalition bringing together Federal, State, and local LE maybe teamed with the NRA, and our woefully defunded mental health care system, to expand and broaden the background check system. Maybe a training program for those who wish to purchase and own semi-automatic, high-capacity firearms, and I'm not talking about the semiauto 12 Ga. Certainly the military and LE are trained in the use of such. Why not the individual?
I know that expands the role of government. Not what I wish for either

Lately I have noticed that relatively cheap AR platforms are now for sale at my local Walmart. I'm sure many of the purchasers are not hunters nor do they live in urban environments where self-protection is an element to be considered. JD

Last edited by JDogger; 12-14-2012 at 08:35 PM.

One cannot reason someone out of something they were not reasoned into. - Jonathan Swift

1-Would it be possible to still protect the 2nd amendment rights of responsible gun owners, and yet weed out those who are less than responsible.
2- to expand and broaden the background check system.
3-Maybe a training program for those who wish to purchase and own semi-automatic, high-capacity firearms, and I'm not talking about the semiauto 12 Ga. Certainly the military and LE are trained in the use of such. Why not the individual?

4 - I'm sure many of the purchasers are not hunters nor do they live in urban environments where self-protection is an element to be considered.

1 - Yes. Allow people to properly defend themselves EVERY WHERE and stop polarizing gun owners as idiot tin foil red necks.
2 - What makes you think background checks would have prevented this? He didn't go buy this gun from Academy and then commit the crime.
3 - What does Law Abiding Citizens taking training have to do with anything? This kid just killed almost 30 people WITHOUT training. The training I'd support is training the School Staff to be able to competently engage these wackos so they'll off themselves quicker rather than walking around shooting innocent people for 15 minutes before the cops show up or someone decides to do something. Most all these Active Shooters shoot themselves immediately after running out of ammo, being confronted or as soon as it looks like their plan is folding. Nothing spells Failed Plan like lead coming your way from an Armed Teacher! Texas has the right idea.
4 - Hunting and Self-Protection aren't the only reason to own guns nor should they be.

Darrel Scott is the father of rachel Scott, one of the Columbine victims.

Ithink it is spot on!

DARRELL SCOTT TESTIMONY
Guess our national leaders didn't expect this, hmm? On Thursday, Darrell Scott, the father of Rachel Scott, a victim of the Columbine High School shootings in Littleton, Colorado, was invited to address the House Judiciary Committee's subcommittee What he said to our national leaders during this special session of Congress was painfully truthful. They were not prepared for what he was to say, nor was it received well. It needs to be heard by every parent, every teacher, every politician, every sociologist, every psychologis t, and every so-called expert! These courageous words spoken by Darrell Scott are powerful, penetrating, and deeply personal. There is no doubt that God sent this man as a voice crying in the wilderness. The following is a portion of the transcript:
"Since the dawn of creation there has been both good & evil in the hearts of men and women. We all contain the seeds of kindness or the seeds of violence. The death of my wonderful daughter, Rachel Joy Scott, and the deaths of that heroic teacher, and the other eleven children who died must not be in vain Their blood cries out for answers.
"The first recorded act of violence was when Cain slew his brother Abel out in the field. The villain was not the club he used.. Neither was it the NCA, the National Club Association. The true killer was Cain, and the reason for the murder could only be found in Cain's heart. "In the days that followed the Columbine tragedy, I was amazed at how quickly fingers began to be pointed at groups such as the NRA.
I am not a member of the NRA. I am not a hunter. I do not even own a gun. I am not here to represent or defend the NRA - because I don't believe that they are responsible for my daughter's death. Therefore I do not believe that they need to be defended. If I believed they had anything to do with Rachel's murder I would be their strongest opponent. I am here today to declare that Columbine was not just a tragedy-it was a spiritual event that should be forcing us to look at where the real blame lies! Much of the blame lies here in this room.
Much of the blame lies behind the pointing fingers of the accusers themselves. " I wrote a poem just four nights ago that expresses my feelings best. This was written way before I knew I would be speaking here today:
Your laws ignore our deepest needs, Your words are empty air. You've stripped away our heritage, You've outlawed simple prayer. Now gunshots fill our classrooms, And precious children die. You seek for answers everywhere, And ask the question "Why?" You regulate restrictive laws, Through legislative creed. And yet you fail to understand, That God is what we need!
"Men and women are three-part beings. We all consist of body, soul, and spirit. When we refuse to acknowledge a third part of our make-up, we create a void that allows evil, prejudice, and hatred to rush in and reek havoc. Spiritual presences were present within our educational systems for most of our nation's history.
Many of our major colleges began as theological seminaries. This is a historical fact. What has happened to us as a nation? We have refused to honor God, and in so doing, we open the doors to hatred and violence. And when something as terrible as Columbine's tragedy occurs -- politicians immediately look for a scapegoat such as the NRA. They immediately seek to pass more restrictive laws that contribute to erode away our personal and private liberties. We do not need more restrictiv e laws. "Eric and Dylan would not have been stopped by metal detectors. No amount of gun laws can stop someone who spends months planning this type of massacre. The real villain lies within our own hearts. "As my son Craig lay under that table in the school library and saw his two friends murdered before his very eyes-He did not hesitate to pray in school. I defy any law or politician to deny him that right! I challenge every young person in America , and around the world, to realize that on April 20, 1999 , at Columbine High Sc hool prayer was brought back to our schools. Do not let the many prayers offered by those students be in vain. Dare to move into the new millennium with a sacred disregard for legislation that violates your God-given right to communicate with Him. To those of you who would point your finger at the NRA - I give to you a sincere challenge. Dare to examine your own heart before casting the first stone! My daughter's death will not be in vain! The young people of this country will not allow that to happen!"

It is far easier to spit on the work of others than it is to produce something better yourself.Brynmoors Prairie Sage JH ​(Sage) Just a dang fool huntin DawgHRCH Calypso Seven Bales High SH (Bailey)HR Calypso Zoomin Loosies Mad Hader (Maddi) We loved you baby. R.I.P.HRCH FlatLanders Broken Pistol Ricochet SH (Flinch)

My Christian Name is Michael Baker..
I have gone by "Gooser" since I was a "gossling"

1 - Yes. Allow people to properly defend themselves EVERY WHERE and stop polarizing gun owners as idiot tin foil red necks.
2 - What makes you think background checks would have prevented this? He didn't go buy this gun from Academy and then commit the crime.
3 - What does Law Abiding Citizens taking training have to do with anything? This kid just killed almost 30 people WITHOUT training. The training I'd support is training the School Staff to be able to competently engage these wackos so they'll off themselves quicker rather than walking around shooting innocent people for 15 minutes before the cops show up or someone decides to do something. Most all these Active Shooters shoot themselves immediately after running out of ammo, being confronted or as soon as it looks like their plan is folding. Nothing spells Failed Plan like lead coming your way from an Armed Teacher! Texas has the right idea.
4 - Hunting and Self-Protection aren't the only reason to own guns nor should they be.

Our school system at one time has considered (would most likely have gone through with it except for lacking the funding) having a plains clothed officer on duty at each school, much like the air marshals for airplanes/ports. If you cannot arm the teachers or other administrative personnel, after all, we wouldn't want them to be "disgruntled" employees, then this is a viable option.

I work at my son's school before and after, caring for those kids that need dropped off early and those that need to stay until 6pm. We have these kids in the commons/cafeteria which is only 20ft from the front doors. We have NO plan for getting kids out in the case of someone coming in with a hidden gun. Yes, we have the buzzer and camera, but like this shooter, family members of kids and teachers get "buzzed" in all the time. When this issue was discussed between myself and my co-worker, the only thing that we could come up with is to yell "FIRE" - "FIRE DRILL" and try to get the kids to go out our fire route. All the classrooms are locked so there is NO place to hide, no doors on any of the bathrooms, and all open rooms- office, library, and teachers lounge- have huge picture windows where a gunman could enter easily.

I would love to be allowed to carry my pistol with me- but obviously that wouldn't be allowed!!!!

I guess if we, as a society are not going to change our thinking- about how we raise our children, how we conduct ourselves, and how we continue to allow our values to fall in the gutter, then horrendous acts of violence will continue to plague our country.