We could not have done this without the fifth member of our team Legoboy's 4 Runner. We had to take a short break at one point and slow
down a couple of times to allow the breaks to cool off as they were not doing the job.

This was a great area to visit with awesome landscapes and views.

We really appreciate all the cache hiders for all the work that went into placing these caches.

I'm inclined to believe that finding 122 caches per hour... Even on the ET Power Trail... Has to be impossible. That's one cache per slightly-under 30 seconds. If you just had to FIND the cache, that would be highly unlikely, but with the time it takes for EACH of you to sign the log?

I'm inclined to believe that finding 122 caches per hour... Even on the ET Power Trail... Has to be impossible. That's one cache per slightly-under 30 seconds. If you just had to FIND the cache, that would be highly unlikely, but with the time it takes for EACH of you to sign the log?

I just don't think it's possible... Unless I'm missing something.

I agree.
As I have sais in the past. These world record runs are BS. I guess they could be valid for some one that beleives in the tooth fairy.

For example, did all four cachers attend at each cache while it was found and signed? Did you sign/stamp the log book or use a sticker? Did you put the sticker on the log book or outside of the container?

For example, did all four cachers attend at each cache while it was found and signed? Did you sign/stamp the log book or use a sticker? Did you put the sticker on the log book or outside of the container?

How many miles? Any DNF's?

I believe the DNF question was answered in another thread, there were no DNF's for the Alien Trail portion of the caching. Scubasonic has said that a stamp was used.

We know there wasn't any leapfrogging as only one vehicle was used. At least one person would have to remain behind the driver's seat. My guess only one or two left the vehicle at each stopping point.

I'm inclined to believe that finding 122 caches per hour... Even on the ET Power Trail... Has to be impossible. That's one cache per slightly-under 30 seconds. If you just had to FIND the cache, that would be highly unlikely, but with the time it takes for EACH of you to sign the log?

I just don't think it's possible... Unless I'm missing something.

I agree.
As I have sais in the past. These world record runs are BS. I guess they could be valid for some one that beleives in the tooth fairy.

* By car, the caches are only a few seconds apart (around 528 feet)
* The driver remains behind the wheel
* Likely cache locations are spottable from 200-300 feet away.
* Vehicle parks within a few feet of the GZ
* One or two people run out of the vehicle to the likely GZ.
* Film canister is opened, log stamped in (probably) sloppy fashion. Restuffed, capped & replaced.
* Dive back into the car.
* Repeat ad nauseum

I'm inclined to believe that finding 122 caches per hour... Even on the ET Power Trail... Has to be impossible. That's one cache per slightly-under 30 seconds. If you just had to FIND the cache, that would be highly unlikely, but with the time it takes for EACH of you to sign the log?

I just don't think it's possible... Unless I'm missing something.

I agree.
As I have sais in the past. These world record runs are BS. I guess they could be valid for some one that beleives in the tooth fairy.

Most early caching records used to be REAL caching and were interesting. Now they are just LAME.

* By car, the caches are only a few seconds apart (around 528 feet)
* The driver remains behind the wheel
* Likely cache locations are spottable from 200-300 feet away.
* Vehicle parks within a few feet of the GZ
* One or two people run out of the vehicle to the likely GZ.
* Film canister is opened, log stamped in (probably) sloppy fashion. Restuffed, capped & replaced.
* Dive back into the car.
* Repeat ad nauseum

I've talked to several people who have done the caches on the E.T. Highway. From what I've heard, the descriptions above are mostly accurate, except for the signing (or stamping) the log part. Most teams will take the whole cache at the first stop, and go. They'll stamp the log while in transit to the next cache. When the 2nd cache is found, they take it and leave the cache they have already signed. Then they move on to the 3rd cache, again signing the previous cache while in transit. This goes on and on.

So what about that now missing #1 cache? Everyone already knows what the containers are, so they brought a new cache with them to place there. Either that, or if the team is returning home past #1 again, they might leave the last cache there.

Great job boys! Rabid would describe it best. But I guess we always knew that. Long way to drive for an In and Out Burger. Good thing you where able to grab a few caches along the way. For those of you who question the numbers, I have cached plenty with Legoboy and ROS. While they could easily be described as "trouble", I have never seen anything but above board caching ethics out of these guys. Why bother? It would be beneath them to do it.

For example, did all four cachers attend at each cache while it was found and signed? Did you sign/stamp the log book or use a sticker? Did you put the sticker on the log book or outside of the container?

How many miles? Any DNF's?

Most of the caches are within 30' of the car. We had a driver, two runners and a stamper(on the logs).

Not sure how many miles we covered as I forgot to check the odometer the next morning. As far as DNF's all of ET caches were in place including 2 we found at one location. Before that we got about 170 of the 200 in the musical series in Cedar City. Some of those we just chose not to do though.

You all provided some GREAT insight and explanations--I can't say I'd ever become a personal fan of "power-trailing," so I hadn't thought of many of these methods.

However, let's talk through this mathematically for a moment (and I hate math, so if I mess this up, someone help me out).

Let's focus on hour 12... 122 caches. Let's also assume that each cache is EXACTLY 528 feet apart from one another.

This means that they had to cover (528 x 121) 63,888 feet in one hour, which is 12.1 miles. They would have to be traveling an average of 12.1 mph to travel 12.1 miles in 1 hour.

NOT a huge deal at all, right?

Ok, now consider that they must stop (full-on stop) for every cache. Let's assume it takes 1 second to get to GZ, 1 second to find the cache, 2 seconds to open the cache and pull out the log, half a second to stamp the log, another 1 second to put the log back in the cache and close the lid, and another 1 second to get back in the car.

Sounds RIDICULOUSLY FAST, right? I agree. That's 6.5 seconds that the vehicle must be fully stopped. Even if they used the method suggested above (take each physical cache, and replace it at the next location), we'll subtract 1.5 seconds for efficiency's sake.

So at the absolute minimum, the vehicle must be stopped for 5 seconds. This also means that there's about 2 seconds of decelerating and accelerating, during which the vehicle is going LESS than 12.1 miles per hour.

I could continue, but I'll let someone else worry about that task. The point is... This is almost mathematically impossible...

* By car, the caches are only a few seconds apart (around 528 feet)
* The driver remains behind the wheel
* Likely cache locations are spottable from 200-300 feet away.
* Vehicle parks within a few feet of the GZ
* One or two people run out of the vehicle to the likely GZ.
* Film canister is opened, log stamped in (probably) sloppy fashion. Restuffed, capped & replaced.
* Dive back into the car.
* Repeat ad nauseum

I've talked to several people who have done the caches on the E.T. Highway. From what I've heard, the descriptions above are mostly accurate, except for the signing (or stamping) the log part. Most teams will take the whole cache at the first stop, and go. They'll stamp the log while in transit to the next cache. When the 2nd cache is found, they take it and leave the cache they have already signed. Then they move on to the 3rd cache, again signing the previous cache while in transit. This goes on and on.

So what about that now missing #1 cache? Everyone already knows what the containers are, so they brought a new cache with them to place there. Either that, or if the team is returning home past #1 again, they might leave the last cache there.

I know a couple of cachers who did most of the ET caches and they told me that they witnessed this when they made their trip. Another group of cachers passed them along the way and guess what happened? They came to their next unfound cache and found their names already in the log.

The way i see it, the physical logs are now pretty much worthless since they've been removed from the cache they were originally placed in.
.

* By car, the caches are only a few seconds apart (around 528 feet)
* The driver remains behind the wheel
* Likely cache locations are spottable from 200-300 feet away.
* Vehicle parks within a few feet of the GZ
* One or two people run out of the vehicle to the likely GZ.
* Film canister is opened, log stamped in (probably) sloppy fashion. Restuffed, capped & replaced.
* Dive back into the car.
* Repeat ad nauseum

I've talked to several people who have done the caches on the E.T. Highway. From what I've heard, the descriptions above are mostly accurate, except for the signing (or stamping) the log part. Most teams will take the whole cache at the first stop, and go. They'll stamp the log while in transit to the next cache. When the 2nd cache is found, they take it and leave the cache they have already signed. Then they move on to the 3rd cache, again signing the previous cache while in transit. This goes on and on.

So what about that now missing #1 cache? Everyone already knows what the containers are, so they brought a new cache with them to place there. Either that, or if the team is returning home past #1 again, they might leave the last cache there.

I know a couple of cachers who did most of the ET caches and they told me that they witnessed this when they made their trip. Another group of cachers passed them along the way and guess what happened? They came to their next unfound cache and found their names already in the log.

The way i see it, the physical logs are now pretty much worthless since they've been removed from the cache they were originally placed in.
.

I'll have to admit, that's a clever logging technique. I do, however, have and issues with it.

It was my understanding that not all of the caches were the same size (though most were). So what happened a cache that was listed as a small was found and the previous find was a micro? Did seekers just ignore the cache owners size specification and replace it with whatever they had?

This is just yet another example of how those finding caches on a power trail are willing to "bend the rules" all in the name of finding as many caches as possible in a short period of time. I think that's my primary beef about power trails; that they provide an incentive for geocachers to ignore generally accepted practices. More and me it seems that there is one set of guidelines for "regular" geocaching and another for power trails.

* By car, the caches are only a few seconds apart (around 528 feet)
* The driver remains behind the wheel
* Likely cache locations are spottable from 200-300 feet away.
* Vehicle parks within a few feet of the GZ
* One or two people run out of the vehicle to the likely GZ.
* Film canister is opened, log stamped in (probably) sloppy fashion. Restuffed, capped & replaced.
* Dive back into the car.
* Repeat ad nauseum

I've talked to several people who have done the caches on the E.T. Highway. From what I've heard, the descriptions above are mostly accurate, except for the signing (or stamping) the log part. Most teams will take the whole cache at the first stop, and go. They'll stamp the log while in transit to the next cache. When the 2nd cache is found, they take it and leave the cache they have already signed. Then they move on to the 3rd cache, again signing the previous cache while in transit. This goes on and on.

So what about that now missing #1 cache? Everyone already knows what the containers are, so they brought a new cache with them to place there. Either that, or if the team is returning home past #1 again, they might leave the last cache there.

I know a couple of cachers who did most of the ET caches and they told me that they witnessed this when they made their trip. Another group of cachers passed them along the way and guess what happened? They came to their next unfound cache and found their names already in the log.

The way i see it, the physical logs are now pretty much worthless since they've been removed from the cache they were originally placed in.
.

all the more reason as a CO to label the log sheet[and/or inside of the cache container] ...

I must say those are some amazing numbers, CONGRATS... but i honestly dont doubt them being possible.... the car never has to fully stop, pickup trucks/ fullsize vans are made for jumping in/out of on the run... i've never had the chance to try to run a real power trail , but i had a hell of a similar experience on a sudo power trail that was recently published along an interesting "dirt road"[basicly ATV trail] while trying to snag FTFs on them all ..its amazing the avg speed you can do when you get into a Rhythm.

I'm inclined to believe that finding 122 caches per hour... Even on the ET Power Trail... Has to be impossible. That's one cache per slightly-under 30 seconds. If you just had to FIND the cache, that would be highly unlikely, but with the time it takes for EACH of you to sign the log?

I just don't think it's possible... Unless I'm missing something.

I agree.
As I have sais in the past. These world record runs are BS. I guess they could be valid for some one that beleives in the tooth fairy.

* By car, the caches are only a few seconds apart (around 528 feet)
* The driver remains behind the wheel
* Likely cache locations are spottable from 200-300 feet away.
* Vehicle parks within a few feet of the GZ
* One or two people run out of the vehicle to the likely GZ.
* Film canister is opened, log stamped in (probably) sloppy fashion. Restuffed, capped & replaced.
* Dive back into the car.
* Repeat ad nauseum

Driver stays in car. then driver should not get credit for the find, driver did not look for the cache
All the people in the group get out and look for the cache, those that do not look do not get credit for the find.

* By car, the caches are only a few seconds apart (around 528 feet)
* The driver remains behind the wheel
* Likely cache locations are spottable from 200-300 feet away.
* Vehicle parks within a few feet of the GZ
* One or two people run out of the vehicle to the likely GZ.
* Film canister is opened, log stamped in (probably) sloppy fashion. Restuffed, capped & replaced.
* Dive back into the car.
* Repeat ad nauseum

I've talked to several people who have done the caches on the E.T. Highway. From what I've heard, the descriptions above are mostly accurate, except for the signing (or stamping) the log part. Most teams will take the whole cache at the first stop, and go. They'll stamp the log while in transit to the next cache. When the 2nd cache is found, they take it and leave the cache they have already signed. Then they move on to the 3rd cache, again signing the previous cache while in transit. This goes on and on.

So what about that now missing #1 cache? Everyone already knows what the containers are, so they brought a new cache with them to place there. Either that, or if the team is returning home past #1 again, they might leave the last cache there.

I know a couple of cachers who did most of the ET caches and they told me that they witnessed this when they made their trip. Another group of cachers passed them along the way and guess what happened? They came to their next unfound cache and found their names already in the log.

The way i see it, the physical logs are now pretty much worthless since they've been removed from the cache they were originally placed in.
.

Moving caches to another location? Doesn't sound like the geocaching I know.

Driver stays in car. then driver should not get credit for the find, driver did not look for the cache
All the people in the group get out and look for the cache, those that do not look do not get credit for the find.

I don't know if I agree or disagree, I'll have to give it some thought. I do know that speed caching will always draw criticism as everyone has a different definition of what tactics should/shouldn't be allowed.

Playing devil's advocate...

With regular geocaching, it's common for several individuals to cache as a group and when one finds the cache they to take credit for the find. (Some groups wait until everybody has found it.) Sometimes it's found before everybody even makes it to the GZ. This draws very little controversy.

With regular geocaching, it's common for a team to sign for the team. I see it all the time in logs around here. They use one sticker or stamp instead of several. This seems to be a generally accepted practice.

For a speed caching team, the driver is an integral part of the find. As they are needed to identify each GZ and pull as close to it as possible.

Therefore...

It seems reasonable that speed cachers include the driver who is only a few feet away and was integral to getting them to the find.

Most of the time on this ET run, the driver found the cache before we did he could see it right away as we were driving up to it, so in essence he found the cache...... there is no difference IMO so he didn't get out of the car so what. When group caching and 1 person finds it while everyone is looking the finder just signs everyone's name in this instance a stamp was used, and you move on to the next cache. Totally disagree with JonnyVegas, he seems to find anything wrong with anyone speed caching on the ET Highway, but lives closer then anyone and hasn't even done it.

What would happen if someone would go along the route, check to see what type of cache container is used and then would go get several hundred identical containers and go back to the route and add 8 to 10 containers at several of the "cache" locations? Would the people doing the power trail check to see which one actually had the log or would they just grab 1 and go?

Most of the time on this ET run, the driver found the cache before we did he could see it right away as we were driving up to it, so in essence he found the cache......

It is not like much looking is required for any of the caches along the ET highway. I doubt if teams have said, "You check underneath the little rock by the road marker that you can see when driving up that is exactly the same as hundreds of other hides that we have found and I will look in the bush for a hanging bison with camo tape on it." For the few caches that I did, on average, it took me 18-30 seconds to get out of the car, sign the log, and get back in. For the most part, I doubt if everyone gets out of the car for each cache. It would slow things down too much.

So as far as I am concerned, as soon as the verifications and drug test results arrive, this total can be added to the official record books.

briansnat, on Nov 8 2010, 07:44 AM, said:

Moving caches to another location? Doesn't sound like the geocaching I know.

What would happen if someone would go along the route, check to see what type of cache container is used and then would go get several hundred identical containers and go back to the route and add 8 to 10 containers at several of the "cache" locations? Would the people doing the power trail check to see which one actually had the log or would they just grab 1 and go?

Driver stays in car. then driver should not get credit for the find, driver did not look for the cache
All the people in the group get out and look for the cache, those that do not look do not get credit for the find.

For a speed caching team, the driver is an integral part of the find. As they are needed to identify each GZ and pull as close to it as possible.

Therefore...

It seems reasonable that speed cachers include the driver who is only a few feet away and was integral to getting them to the find.

When I go caching with a group of friends, I'm often the driver. While I usually get out and aid in the search, there are times I don't because I'm busy planning which cache to head to next, or I'm taking a snack break, or whatever. My personal rule for myself in these situations is I need to see the cache or it's hiding area. Usually I can see it in someone's hand, as they sign it, from the car from 50 feet away, so I'm happy. If the cache is a significant distance from the car, down some trails in the woods, I'll get out and go aid in the search.

One has to remember that if another person logs online for a cache they didn't really find, that person is only cheating him/herself. There is no awards, so it shouldn't matter to anybody else.

Most teams will take the whole cache at the first stop, and go. They'll stamp the log while in transit to the next cache. When the 2nd cache is found, they take it and leave the cache they have already signed.

Please tell me this is sarcasm.
How can anyone justify moving a cache 528'?
Or worse, moving over a thousand caches 528'?
We've seen folks vilified in these forums for moving a cache just a few feet, because the seeker thought their hiding spot was better than the one selected by the hider. For the most part, I've agreed with those condemnations. Now we're changing our collective minds on moving someone else's cache, so long as record setting is involved? I'm envisioning a scenario where someone seeks out the Alien Head series, (way kewl series, by the way), and samples a few of the ET caches nearby, claiming to have found ET 251, or whatever number is closest. The next time a run like this is made on the ET series, their signature is no longer on the log for 251. Eventually, the cache they found will migrate so far up the trail that they will have no way to verify which cache they found.

I've seen some pretty sad behavior done in the name of record setting, (in other activities), but I never thought folks would be so crass in this game that they'd pull a stunt like this. I get the whole competition thing. I really do. And for the most part, I'm pretty neutral about it. If folks are having fun, zipping from film can to film can, and they're not harming anyone else in the process, I say let 'em at it. Not my cup of tea, but then folks who are wrapped up in numbers runs probably wouldn't enjoy wading 6 hours through a swamp just to find one ammo can. We all play this game in the manner that we find most enjoyable. But the wholesale moving of caches is, to me, deplorable.

* By car, the caches are only a few seconds apart (around 528 feet)
* The driver remains behind the wheel
* Likely cache locations are spottable from 200-300 feet away.
* Vehicle parks within a few feet of the GZ
* One or two people run out of the vehicle to the likely GZ.
* Film canister is opened, log stamped in (probably) sloppy fashion. Restuffed, capped & replaced.
* Dive back into the car.
* Repeat ad nauseum

I've talked to several people who have done the caches on the E.T. Highway. From what I've heard, the descriptions above are mostly accurate, except for the signing (or stamping) the log part. Most teams will take the whole cache at the first stop, and go. They'll stamp the log while in transit to the next cache. When the 2nd cache is found, they take it and leave the cache they have already signed. Then they move on to the 3rd cache, again signing the previous cache while in transit. This goes on and on.

So what about that now missing #1 cache? Everyone already knows what the containers are, so they brought a new cache with them to place there. Either that, or if the team is returning home past #1 again, they might leave the last cache there.

I know a couple of cachers who did most of the ET caches and they told me that they witnessed this when they made their trip. Another group of cachers passed them along the way and guess what happened? They came to their next unfound cache and found their names already in the log.

The way i see it, the physical logs are now pretty much worthless since they've been removed from the cache they were originally placed in.
.

Moving caches to another location? Doesn't sound like the geocaching I know.

Yes like many others we drove the same tracks left by previous cachers.

That's a tough call, I think. This is the note on the description for the first cache in the series (assuming I have the right series):

Head Alien #1 GC253ZN said:

Please don't drive to these caches. The extraterrestrial visitors might take this as a threat. We think it will be safe if we tread lightly and walk to the landing sites. Have fun and keep your eye to the sky!

In my opinion, it is appropriate to call one of these runs a 'world record' if standard rules were applied to the run. However, moving the cache and signing the log while enroute to the next cache would violate these standard rules. Therefore, these types of runs should not be considered by the community to be 'world records'. The reason that I take this stance is because it would be impossible for a team that did utilize standard geocaching practices (hide the cache like you found it, for example) to match the speeds that can be acquired by a team that merely swaps one cache container for another at ground zero, rather than taking the time to open the cache, remove the log, and sticker/stamp the log.

Similar to the run in which the outside of the cache containers were sharpied instead of the logs signed, these record runs should not be accepted by the community.

The ET Trail may be "boring" "throw down" caches "focused towards raising your numbers" as described by some cachers, but I've found when group caching it is all about who you are with that makes the day fun, even on the LPCs, GRCs, and RPCs.
Glad to see you guys had a fun day of caching.