Today I went to McDonalds with my genderqueer non-binary friend. I had a Big Mac, strawberry milkshake and fries and xi had a salad and a water because xi is watching xir weight. We were sitting eating and shooting the shiat and we overheard a little kid talking to his/her brother/sister (sorry I don't know these kids' gender identities - their mom called them boys but you can never be too sure, and considering the cissexist bullshiat that was about to come out of this woman's mouth, i wouldn't be surprised if they were girls)Kid B (the younger one) says to Kid A, "you're a lesbian!" and quick as a flash, their mother says, "Boys can't be lesbians, eat your hamburger."I MEAN WHAT THE fark?! This is so problematic! I almost jumped over the table and punched that biatch in the ear. I mean SO MANY THINGS WRONG with what she said to the poor kid. Boys CAN be lesbians if they identify as lesbians. I have a number of cis male lesbian friends. She was erasing their entire lived experiences with such a small statement. I couldn't believe what I was hearing. The kid was like five years old. How does she know that the kid wouldn't grow up to identify as a lesbian! Scumbags like this are why I firmly believe cis scum biatches should keep their legs closed and quit breeding. fark the cis hetero patriarchy!

Depending on your birthday it could be normal. All so there is a school of thought that boys shouldn't start school until they are six for maturity reasons.

Some (and this is really messed up) admit their boys later so they will be older and bigger than their classmates. This is so they will have an advantage in sports.

I have a late birthday and I was always in a weird place in terms of age in high school, but I can see that. And starting boys later just so they're bigger? Really?! That sounds like a terrible idea...I get it, but yikes...

Capo Del Bandito:Maybe, but only taken with a grain of salt. I doubt the person to put it in to proper wording, or with any proper assessment.

Anecdotal bullshiat is hardly the way to go.

Except for the fact that if they are going through a transition and living as the gender they seek to become, it's not a "self assessment", but rather an assessment made after seeing numerous physicians and experts in the fields of psychiatric, endocrine, and developmental medicine.

Being a transgendered individual is not something someone can suddenly up and decide to do in a day's time. It's not crossdressing, and it's not a sexual fetish.

hardinparamedic:Capo Del Bandito: Maybe, but only taken with a grain of salt. I doubt the person to put it in to proper wording, or with any proper assessment.

Anecdotal bullshiat is hardly the way to go.

Except for the fact that if they are going through a transition and living as the gender they seek to become, it's not a "self assessment", but rather an assessment made after seeing numerous physicians and experts in the fields of psychiatric, endocrine, and developmental medicine.

Being a transgendered individual is not something someone can suddenly up and decide to do in a day's time. It's not crossdressing, and it's not a sexual fetish.

Good god how do you remember that?! And in the correct order? When talking is there a way to pronounce that or do you have to rattle the letters everytime? And do subgroups get pissy if you just list off LGBT at the support group meeting? Or do you have to say the whole thing every time?

I've had a few people ask me if I prefer gender-neutral pronouns. They're awkward, so I don't really care. I dig the fark out of it when someone calls me a guy though (for example when I was younger and had a not-so-prominent chest, I'd often get called sir or boy--made me feel all kinds of warm and fuzzy inside). I also am one of the few alternately gendered who have an issue with a male calling himself a lesbian; that label is usually reserved for female bodies who are happy with their female bodies who like to bork other female bodies, who are generally, but not always, happy with their female bodies as well. If the male is trans and calling herself a lezzie? No problem, I can wrap my brain around that one easy.

/yes, blowing the definition of words is fun, but we still need to have at least a few we agree on, or communication is impossible

Good god how do you remember that?! And in the correct order? When talking is there a way to pronounce that or do you have to rattle the letters everytime? And do subgroups get pissy if you just list off LGBT at the support group meeting? Or do you have to say the whole thing every time?

"RSTUV" get it? had me fooled too. i was thinking they must just be farking with us now.

Good god how do you remember that?! And in the correct order? When talking is there a way to pronounce that or do you have to rattle the letters everytime? And do subgroups get pissy if you just list off LGBT at the support group meeting? Or do you have to say the whole thing every time?

LOL. It's an inside joke. The letters are usually pronounced individually, and yes, usually all of it, every time. The G and the L get switched, but last I remember, it went something like: LGBTQP (Les, Gay, Bi, Trans(both gender and sexual), Queer, Pansexual). Therefore: Most people in the community will just call it "alphabet soup." As in, "So I went to a meeting with the alphabet soup relations committee."

Good god how do you remember that?! And in the correct order? When talking is there a way to pronounce that or do you have to rattle the letters everytime? And do subgroups get pissy if you just list off LGBT at the support group meeting? Or do you have to say the whole thing every time?

LOL. It's an inside joke. The letters are usually pronounced individually, and yes, usually all of it, every time. The G and the L get switched, but last I remember, it went something like: LGBTQP (Les, Gay, Bi, Trans(both gender and sexual), Queer, Pansexual). Therefore: Most people in the community will just call it "alphabet soup." As in, "So I went to a meeting with the alphabet soup relations committee."

megarian:The Stealth Hippopotamus: megarian: 19? High school? Did Tony do high school wrong? Is that normal?

Depending on your birthday it could be normal. All so there is a school of thought that boys shouldn't start school until they are six for maturity reasons.

Some (and this is really messed up) admit their boys later so they will be older and bigger than their classmates. This is so they will have an advantage in sports.

I have a late birthday and I was always in a weird place in terms of age in high school, but I can see that. And starting boys later just so they're bigger? Really?! That sounds like a terrible idea...I get it, but yikes...

The worse part is that you know that the kid is going to be forced into sports, odds are the dad is living though the kid, and academics will take a backseat.

Capo Del Bandito:I'd say that a professional would be better at making that statement than a person.

Probably, as there are many psychologists out there who specialize in helping transpeople figure themselves out. But you don't just walk into their office and sit down and they look you over and say, "Nope, faking it." or "Probably just a paraphilia because of your shiatty wig." No, they talk with you. They ask you questions. And the answer that is most influential to the headshrinker is the one that comes after the question, "Who are you?"

You mean do I go around asking people to violate HIPAA and fork over their medical paperwork to prove any condition they claim to me? Not really. If a coughing fella comes up to me and says he's got Tuberculosis, I'm backing the hell away. You tell me you've got PTSD because a mentally handicapped Iraqi girl blew herself up and her face landed in your lap? Sit with me and smoke this J, friend. Walk up to me in a half-assed dime-store wig and swear to me that there's a pretty lady living deep inside of you? Well darlin', that's just fine. Now let me give you the number of some girls who can really help with your look.

For the purposes of this exercise, they don't need to know who they are better than a trained professional who has been dealing with them for years does, they simply have to know who they are better than i do. Or better than you do. Or better than an internet message board does. And that's a really, REALLY easy threshold to cross, so the point goes to them.

Capo Del Bandito:Most people are grossly uneducated and prefer to use 'feelings' instead of analytical thinking.

Feelings still require analysis. Nobody ever doesn't engage in analytical thinking. It's just how thinking happens. You may disagree with the result or find it illogical but it doesn't mean they didn't use analytical thinking to arrive at that point.

You make a lot of assumptions about people based on what you perceive to be a position of higher standing that you hold. You should be a lot more careful about that. Pride cometh before a fall.

FirstNationalBastard:radarlove: Because People in power are Stupid: How does he know that he's transgendered?

Easy- so easy, in fact, anyone sitting at their computer can do it RIGHT NOW!

Now here is where it gets tricky- open your pants or lift your dress, and check your genitalia. Do you have (a) a penis or (b) a vagina? Look closely and make sure you're right. Hold that answer in your head.

...can I do a hands-on check of my genitalia instead of just a visual check?

As to being 19 in high school- it's not always the kids fault. Our daughter will be 19 in high school because her idiot alcoholic biological mother told my husband that she was going to "homeschool" the kids, when in reality, all she did was drink all day. So, our daughter lost a whole year of school.

I feel so bad for her that she has to explain why she's older than the rest of her class, but we've got her on the right track right now and in a magnet school

Read the other bits in the thread: It takes assessment from professionals before you declare yourself "I BE IN DAH WRONG BODY".

I really *really* have a hatred for self diagnosis of mental/emotional/biological things in nature.

It would appear this kid is doing it for attention.

And you also have to remember this is the Daily Fail presenting the story. They put in just enough detail to make the average low class British white trash snob that frequents it's pages feel righteous outrage and fury that X is happening, and those dirty (Lizard People/Immigrants at the BBC/Nig Nogs/'Muricans - insert group here) are responsible for it.

A good rule of thumb is never to believe anything that the Daily Mail presents on anything involving GLBTQ, Human Rights, Medicine, or Science. They're just barely a step above the National Enquirier. And at least they're entertaining with Bat Boy.

Hey Capo Del Bandito, you DO know there is a difference between Transgender and Transsexual, right?

And you DO know that there is NO such thing as a timeline for figuring out if you feel you are the wrong gender and want to come out. Same thing if you figure out if you are the wrong sex and want to permn change that.

So, no, the kid is NOT doing it for attention. I am so sick to death of people labeling anyone that is Transgender or Transsexual and DARES to come out as an "attention whore". fark all of you!

Good god how do you remember that?! And in the correct order? When talking is there a way to pronounce that or do you have to rattle the letters everytime? And do subgroups get pissy if you just list off LGBT at the support group meeting? Or do you have to say the whole thing every time?

LOL. It's an inside joke. The letters are usually pronounced individually, and yes, usually all of it, every time. The G and the L get switched, but last I remember, it went something like: LGBTQP (Les, Gay, Bi, Trans(both gender and sexual), Queer, Pansexual). Therefore: Most people in the community will just call it "alphabet soup." As in, "So I went to a meeting with the alphabet soup relations committee."

The first line of my post was "what the hell is that alphabet soup?!"

For people who are offended on a daily basis I would think that be offensive would be the ultimate no-no. But I have to admit it made me laugh thinking about a bunch of people standing around spending hours of their life spelling this out ever. single. time.

Capo Del Bandito:sudo give me more cowbell: Capo Del Bandito: Would you trust a person's self diagnosis of an ailment?

Would you trust someone's self-diagnosis of their sexual orientation?

Maybe, but only taken with a grain of salt. I doubt the person to put it in to proper wording, or with any proper assessment.

Anecdotal bullshiat is hardly the way to go.

Maybe ?!So you might think that you're into chicks, but you know what, I think you'd better get a doctor to decide whether you really like to suck dick...

gimme a farking break, dude. If you're gay or straight, you know it. If you're trans or not, you know it. In both cases, sometimes it takes a long time to admit it, and be willing to stand up to the ubiquitous social bigotry directed towards such people, but you still know it.

a decade or two ago, you'd be the one saying that gay people need electroshock therapy to cure their "illness" -unfortunately some people never learn their lessons from history.

hardinparamedic:Gender has nothing to do with biological sex. You can be a biological male, and develop the brain chemistry and physiology of female.

There's a higher category for things like brain chemistry and physiology. They both fall under biology.

And hence, are not psychological.

Gender and sex are much the same thing to science. A gender role, not so much, that's more of a social thing, and as such it is a psychological issue.

I say fark it all. Describing your psychological state with masculine/feminine is no better than what most are trying to replace. "Dress like a man" or "That is women's work", or worse yet, "Think like a woman." Perpetuates the exact same prejudice sentiments.

So you're a guy who likes to wear dresses and wants to be a nurse. big farking deal. Be prepared to face some odd looks, no different than any emo/goth kid who wants to express with wild hair and eyeshadow, no different than a juggalo who wants to wear ICP gear and make-up to a job interview, or the people who wear bizarre clothes to walmart.(ie people of walmart dot com).

That kind of personal taste cannot be eradicated. As long as we find some things pleasing we'll also find some things repellant. That's normal human psychology.(doesn't mean we have to act on that, mind you, but controlling some things like a twitch or a first reaction is near impossible).

The only thing that "gender" can describe is body type(physiology, IE a muscular female is atypical of a person of those genes but is common among males, ergo masculine).... Anything else feeds that binary structure you all claim to be fighting against.

We are who we are. Some of us are this way and are fine with it, some of us have biological causes to our situation, some of us may not want to be this way(heresy to the movement, I know), and some of us have some purely psychological motivators.

As you yourself stated, we're all different. So you both claim to be OppositeGender X, but what's accurate for one may be a severe psychological disorder in another.

If we doubt this kid who just recently "discovered" it, that does not express what we think about you. Remember, it takes all types, the same absolutes do not apply to everyone, you said so yourself.

Waking up one day and being different(ie a discovery) can be a symptom of a mental break. Could have psychological causes or biological causes, and if those things are recent they may be treated. Maybe his parents or someone he grew up with were sexually abusive, maybe something in his diet has caused a severe hormone flux(or did in the past while he was developing).

The more we can study and observe and puzzle out, the better we'll all be. Wouldn't it be great if you could take a pill and have your physical sex naturally change and rearrange itself? Or if we actually isolated a cause for the developmental differences. No, I'm not suggesting you need "fixed" but if say, we learned the exact thing that caused the mismatched body image and could take early steps at treatment. Please attempt to refrain from reactionary knee-jerking and read the whole thing in an example form:

How it is now:A "boy" who grew up thinking he was a girl, had an abstract depression over his body not having the right parts, not even mentioning the social interactions that exacerbate the problem..

The Stealth Hippopotamus:megarian: The Stealth Hippopotamus: megarian: 19? High school? Did Tony do high school wrong? Is that normal?

Depending on your birthday it could be normal. All so there is a school of thought that boys shouldn't start school until they are six for maturity reasons.

Some (and this is really messed up) admit their boys later so they will be older and bigger than their classmates. This is so they will have an advantage in sports.

I have a late birthday and I was always in a weird place in terms of age in high school, but I can see that. And starting boys later just so they're bigger? Really?! That sounds like a terrible idea...I get it, but yikes...

The worse part is that you know that the kid is going to be forced into sports, odds are the dad is living though the kid, and academics will take a backseat.

Today I went to McDonalds with my genderqueer non-binary friend. I had a Big Mac, strawberry milkshake and fries and xi had a salad and a water because xi is watching xir weight. We were sitting eating and shooting the shiat and we overheard a little kid talking to his/her brother/sister (sorry I don't know these kids' gender identities - their mom called them boys but you can never be too sure, and considering the cissexist bullshiat that was about to come out of this woman's mouth, i wouldn't be surprised if they were girls)Kid B (the younger one) says to Kid A, "you're a lesbian!" and quick as a flash, their mother says, "Boys can't be lesbians, eat your hamburger."I MEAN WHAT THE fark?! This is so problematic! I almost jumped over the table and punched that biatch in the ear. I mean SO MANY THINGS WRONG with what she said to the poor kid. Boys CAN be lesbians if they identify as lesbians. I have a number of cis male lesbian friends. She was erasing their entire lived experiences with such a small statement. I couldn't believe what I was hearing. The kid was like five years old. How does she know that the kid wouldn't grow up to identify as a lesbian! Scumbags like this are why I firmly believe cis scum biatches should keep their legs closed and quit breeding. fark the cis hetero patriarchy!

I hope you are trolling. Men have penises. Women have vaginas. You can play house and make up funny new words to make your friends feel all grown up and accepted if you want.. but it's weird. It's not genetically sound, and its an abomination.

If we start accepting applications to change reality from what it has been, where do we stop? Is pedophilia just a way of life that isn't accepted yet? Is farking animals okay, and we are just behind the curve on that? What about trees? They have some very attractive knots in them.. I bet my junk would fit.

Man + Woman = baby. All the other shiat is just us genetically, historically normal folk feeling guilty and letting you weirdos play along. If you don't know what gender you are, and aren't interested in SACRIFICING to create a family, like the 50 generations before you, than you don't belong on this planet. Lucky for you, your 50+ grandfathers, gay or not, knew they had to penetrate some vagina so you could have the privilege of opting out of life. grow up. man up.

omeganuepsilon:Gender and sex are much the same thing to science. A gender role, not so much, that's more of a social thing, and as such it is a psychological issue.

Actually it's not... and there's actually three different levels of sex in and of itself (genetic, gonadal, phenotypic), and there are biochemical and genetic diseases that illustrate when congruency of those three breaks down. Gender is more mental than structural, but even mental disorders have been shown to show structural changes from "normal" brains.

Mr Rogers is aroused:Man + Woman = baby. All the other shiat is just us genetically, historically normal folk feeling guilty and letting you weirdos play along. If you don't know what gender you are, and aren't interested in SACRIFICING to create a family, like the 50 generations before you, than you don't belong on this planet. Lucky for you, your 50+ grandfathers, gay or not, knew they had to penetrate some vagina so you could have the privilege of opting out of life. grow up. man up.

Oh, look, the sad, pathetic, people who think children are the only reason for living have shown up!

Let's all laugh at them, and maybe try to explain that the "miracle" of life has spread to the point that it threatens to destroy the planet.

omeganuepsilon:How it is now:A "boy" who grew up thinking he was a girl, had an abstract depression over his body not having the right parts, not even mentioning the social interactions that exacerbate the problem..What it could be:A girl is born and grows up normally.Is that so bad?If it is, I move that you're a bit mentally flawed.

Eh. Yes, it would be great if people didn't have to experience that, but people do, so can we deal with what is? I'm also not a person who is big on eugenics; the nature/nurture argument and the treatment of being alternately gendered in similar terms as a disease makes me uncomfortable. For example, yes, I feel I have the wrong body, but no, it's not wrong enough to make me want to do something about it. If I had been born a hermaphrodite, I wouldn't have the life and the relationship I have. I wouldn't have the knowledge and experience and compassion towards the LGBTQ community that I do. I might have better, but there are things I don't want to lose. I'm okay with that.

Would I want it for my daughter/son? I think most of the issues with being different right now are social. Being different, i would like to think I'll have an easier time than my parents did helping my child negotiate any gender questions--it's hard to confront a parent with "I'm bi" when that parent has stated that bi people are cowards. I've also found a community that is much more educated and informed than the average joe; this is a group of people that starts talking about trans feelings to kindergartners, so that any child with such feelings can be identified early and given any additional support they may need. I never stop questioning my own sexual identity, but with my own kid, I would like to think the questioning would be a source of curiosity and enjoyment and excitement, instead of anxiety and depression and self-loathing.

During a test for gender (that was actually pretty helpful), one of the questions was: "How would you feel if you suddenly woke up in a world where, due to uniforms, you could not tell the gender/sex of the person you are talking to?" This describes my ideal world, where I don't have to worry about people judging me because my actions don't match my body, or judging my morality because my dress doesn't match what they think my gender should wear. An example here: If you're female, go and sit in a bus and spread your legs, sit like a guy. You'll get glares. Same, if you're a guy, and you hold a purse on your lap with your legs crosses. There are SO many things that are gendered that we don't even realize. Can I just be me, and not have to worry about whether or not you think I'm an inappropriate role model for your kids just because my knees hurt and I don't want to cross my legs?

Mr Rogers is aroused:It's not genetically sound, and its an abomination.

The My Little Pony Killer:Citation.

Homosexuality is a Learned Behaviour. The instinct for sex involves thrusting and groping and kissing and so forth. If you get horny at the sight of a naked man, or if you get horny at the sight of a naked woman, it is only because you have been taught to make that association.