Splinter Cell Blacklist, on every platform but Wii U, has install options either mandatory or optional. According to analysis from Digital Foundry there are possible trade-offs on Nintendo's system as a result, with longer loading times and some weaker textures that are improved with an optional install on the Xbox 360. Although that's just one example, the ambitious and processor-straining Grand Theft Auto V is a more important landmark, and one that poses questions for whether the current Wii U SKUs' on-board memory could be problematic in the future.

To start with a brief and by no means comprehensive history of installs on the Xbox 360 and PS3, in the early years — and even today — installing elements of a game from the disc is very much optional on Microsoft's system, perhaps reflected in the modest space afforded throughout its lifespan by all but the most expensive models. For PS3 owners, however, mandatory installs have been a common part of everyday life, as the 2x read speed of the PS3's blu-ray drive simply isn't fast enough for some games and developers; adding an install to the process seems to be the easier option. The situation in recent times continues to evolve, though often the 360's drive keeps installs optional, while Sony's system typically requires some installation with triple-A blockbusters, particularly.

To come to the Wii U, to date no games have had mandatory or optional installs ahead of playing the game; you simply pop the disc in and — updates allowing — get on with it.

To be clear, the topic of interest for this article isn't related to someone going on the eShop and downloading a retail game out of choice, but on physical retail copies having downloads that are optional and mandatory; we don't mean game updates and patches, either. If looking at the relevance and potential issues with major games in the context of the PS3 and Xbox 360, it's minimal enough that we could simply put on our coats and stop this article here. There is a greater context, however, as we're looking at a system that Nintendo will surely wish to be active on the market for at least five years, so looking at recent trends and examples points us towards potential pitfalls in the future.

In current terms, the potential benefits of installs are seen off — to an extent — by the Wii U courtesy of its thoroughly decent disc drive. Utilising a proprietary Blu-Ray-esque format, the Wii U teardown by anandtech.com suggested that the drive goes along at a fair lick (22MB/s), comfortably quicker than the 360 and a good deal faster than the PS3. That's a win for the Nintendo engineers, meaning that — aside from assets utilising temporary memory and the system's architecture — games have a good shot of processing and bringing flashy effects to the screen with disc reading alone.

As highlighted in the Splinter Cell Blacklist Digital Foundry Face-Off, however, the Wii U version has some pop-in and lower texture quality due to the absence of the optional texture pack that can be installed on the Xbox 360. Fairly superficial, perhaps, but the Wii U version reportedly struggles a little in the framerate department, while load times with installs on other systems are noticeably faster, with timings up to four times longer on the Nintendo system. With little on the system's hard disk, all the more assets are being taken directly from the disc and putting the drive through its paces.

It's a noticeable feature with processor-hungry third-party games; when playing titles such as Assassin's Creed III it's tempting to worry for the disc drive's state of repair, as it incessantly whirls away to generate the dense forests and action scenes on screen. Again, similar fates befall the 360 and PS3, to an extent, and let's not forget the consistent clicking and whirring of the Wii disc drive over the years.

Yet looking forward, Grand Theft Auto has thrown up a conundrum. It's not coming to the Wii U, at the time of writing, yet this summer it was confirmed that both the 360 and PS3 versions will have a mandatory installation of 8GB. Is it for slicker graphics and a smoother experience? To an extent it is, but only because it's a title pushing the systems to their limits. Here's what Rockstar Games said on its website:

Grand Theft Auto V is the largest and most ambitious game we have yet created, and takes full advantage of every ounce of processing power available in the current generation of consoles. In order to provide the best possible experience for such a massive and detailed world, the game will have installation requirements on both Xbox 360 and PlayStation 3 systems. For Xbox 360, Grand Theft Auto V will ship on two discs; Disc 1 will be used for a one-time mandatory install and Disc 2 will be used to play the game. After the install, players will be able to enjoy both Grand Theft Auto V and Grand Theft Auto Online without any need to switch discs.

For system owners with cheaper 360 models it could be a surprise headache, while Sony gamers are likely to have expected a large install anyway. What GTA V does do, however, is fire an early warning that as game engines become more complex — in polygon counts and the AI behaviour being processed — the days of popping in a disc and playing with that alone may become more of a rarity. It's here that the Wii U SKUs, in their current state, may face an additional hurdle or two in not only attracting big third-party games, but actually providing the infrastructure to support them.

The point is that Nintendo's games don't, by their nature, typically employ the visual style and CPU-straining effects of many multi-platform blockbusters. The stylistic choices of Nintendo are often all for the better, in that respect, and we've seen gorgeous blends of realism and fantasy in the likes of Pikmin 3, though with tricks employed that kept the file size, for one thing, modest. Large publishers such as Activision and Ubisoft, in action games particularly, very often aim for photo-realism as far as possible, eschewing the fantastical bright style that typifies much of Nintendo's own upcoming lineup. With large, connected open world environments also being a prominent feature in so many high-profile games, there's a lot of work for consoles to do beyond raw visuals, too.

The PS4 and Xbox One will have 500GB hard drives as standard, and installs will be a part of life for gamers on those systems — in both cases there'll apparently be the ability to play as content installs, taking away excessive waiting to play. The Wii U's infrastructure makes equivalent "install as you play" features tough — maybe impossible — to replicate, and third-parties will surely dodge almost all mandatory installs when the Wii U systems only have 8GB or 32GB of memory to offer. Anyone can point and say "that didn't hurt the 360 too much", but that's almost the past now, we're talking about the next five years. Developers can perhaps play around with the resources available to load more onto temporary memory while playing, while continuing to ask a lot of the disc drive, but that's then putting the spotlight on developers to spend money and time on compromises that may not have enough of a financial return. Graphics engines are likely to remain pleasingly scalable and capable for the Wii U hardware, but limits will still be pushed.

So what can Nintendo do about this? Like the HD systems that have come before, new iterations can be released that have a lot more on-board storage; if millions of Wii U systems in the wild have this extra memory built in, devs may be tempted to start following the Rockstar example and insist on mandatory installations, telling those with less memory to pick up external hard drives. That's the message Nintendo gave when the current models were revealed, too, that we should be pleased to save the money on the unit and get external hard drives when ready. That's absolutely fair and valid right now but, again, we're thinking further ahead.

Nintendo has other priorities right now, clearly, than concerning itself with producing new Wii U models with more storage; it has to improve sales and secure the platform's medium term viability before all else. As time goes on and developers shift work solely to the One and PS4, keeping the Wii U's place at that table isn't just dependent on showing these developers that it's worth scaling and adapting for Wii U, but also showing infrastructure support. Running everything off a disc is becoming increasingly rare and challenging, with GTA V perhaps being a reminder, so Nintendo may need to adapt to that reality.

Welsh ex-pat Tom is responsible for the day-to-day running of the site. He's the guy to thank for the generally brilliant nature of the content which massages your eyeballs on a daily basis. Also has an unhealthy obsession with all things Bowser.

More Stories

User Comments (205)

I would rather have the faster load times of SSD and long term reliability that SSD provides. Hard drives fail way too often to be the internal storage device for a console that will last me a decade or so ...

Wii U is mainly for Nintendo games and other stylized games.Both set in a fantasy world like Sonic and in a realistic one like ZombiU.If people want the best graphics without issues they should get a good computer.

IMO, low storage capacity home consoles like the 4GB 360 don't belong in 2013. Downloads are just to big now. I really don't see why Nintendo couldn't get even a 160GB Hard drives. I like Nintendo consoles, but there's always at least one aspect each time where Nintendo penny-pinches and cuts corners.(But their systems are pretty durable.)

There's definitely I think a riff widening in the game world. On one side there are those salivating at the mouth for the latest and greatest in HD graphic architecture and on the other, (perhaps to a smaller extent) those who could care less. There's no question that Microsoft and Sony have consoles better prepared to handle these scenarios in the future. Nintendo has a bad habit of looking behind the curve on evolving trends and technologies, both in hardware and online gaming. Consumers are one extra hard drive away from expanding the capacity of a Wii U and, if the game library is hot and exclusive, there's no reason to believe they won't pick one up if more 3rd party developers jump on board. It's cheaper than buying a second console this generation.

@Hylian_Scholar How many Wii U owners actually have an external hardrive?If there are few people who have a hardrive to do installs on, it doesn't make sense for a publisher to mandate it when the install space required would be larger then the maximum amount of space on the basic Wii U model. It's too risky.

This will be a major problem when it comes to 3rd party stuff in the future. It's looking ever likelier that the Wii U will pretty much only play Nintendo games.

I personally don't have an external hard drive yet because I've been buying all my games on disc instead of downloading them. That said, I'm at nearly half the 32GB capacity now from all the download-exclusive titles in the eshop.I'm sure I'll be investing in a hard drive at some point, but it's really a non-issue for me at this juncture.

Since Nintendo allows us to plug in any HDD with USB, this sounds like a "non problem" to me. They just need to offer us the choice to install to HDD all the games we buy on disc because let's face it: If I go on vacation no way I can carry all my Wii U games as is already, imagine in 5 years time...

I like my physical copies, I am buying everything on disc, so no space issues here.

i have a 2 tb of memory for the wii u and have no problems i do not see why people are having problems with this its not that hardi have more memory then ps4 and xbox one has so what is their problem wii u is better then all of them

@moomooJust about anywhere that sells games, sells external hard drives. It's not like they are hard to come by. Like I said cheap and easy. The fact is there are many owners that will never need more than the included hard drive. For those that want to get into games that require massive downloads, the option is there. Why should the cost be passed on to everyone, even those that won't ever fill the drive.I think that many "power gamers" often get an over inflated sense of their market share.

@moomoo Make the installs optional like they did on the 360 version of Splinter Cell. That way, people with an external drive could improve their game's performance and those without wouldn't be forced to buy a drive. Problem solved.

Seriously, as was stated earlier: Buy a 1TB external hard drive and the problem is solved. They cost anywhere from $50 - $100. If you can afford to buy $50 games and accessories this shouldn't be a problem.

The point I'm trying to make is that the option of adding a hard drive is fine, but it puts pressure on developers as game engines become more taxing and demanding, like GTA V but worse. If the majority of Wii U models have such limited space it places an emphasis on doing more with the disc and other resources, or alienating a bunch of Wii U owners by saying "sorry, 8GB install is mandatory".

As I said, right now it's not a huge deal, but 2-3 years from now it may well be if most games have some form of install. Matching mandatory installs with optional extra hard drives, with the Wii U, could be a PR nightmare and something to scare away some publishers. Sony and Microsoft are countering that with plenty of space on their new systems, so handling that from Nintendo's perspective is a bit of a challenge in the medium term. Evolving the hardware with a new model depends on the system's success, Nintendo making the manufacturing profitable etc.

I hate the idea of having to do an install before playing a game. I think I'd rather just deal with longer loading times, as long as they aren't TOO overly horrendous. And if they are that horrendous, the developers should be held accountable for designing the game that way.

The reason I like playing on consoles as opposed to a PC is because I can just insert a game and begin playing. There aren't any hoops to jump through. Things like data installs become to erode away at that simplicity.

I kind of wish we could all just go back to cartridges. That'd DEFINITELY fix loading times, but I know full that it's never happening. Sigh...

Nintendo could be left out because of this as thay know each Wii U has a maximum 32MB guarantee, also in a way the Wii U is not future proof like other consoles which also could cause a problem later in its life cycle, but the Wii U will probably have 5-6year life cycle anyway. Also you will not notice an install on the next consoles, because it'll be doing it as you play the game aka stealth installs, the PS3 has them also, but on the other consoles that will be the way it installs, also like playing a game as you download it cutting down on the time it takes to play these games, it's mad how Nintendo did not account for this.

@ThomasBW84 I think your point is valid but perhaps a little trite. No one has a magical ball with this issue and I think there are a variety of ways to counter the problem. As many have already pointed out, an external drive is a rather small investment these days. It's hard to imagine it translates to a PR nightmare when there are so many bandages at Nintendo's (and the consumer's) fingertips. I think it presents an obstacle if you're a developer with an enormous game like GTA5 and are trying to consider a Wii U version. Certainly, publishers don't want to roll a game out for the console with an external drive requirement. I think that plays well to the competition because they aren't requiring hard drive accessories with their offerings. Nintendo can start planning now (and may have already) about how to handle such issues when they become industry staples. One could assert they've already done a terrible job at that with their 8gb and 32gb versions. But we know Nintendo isn't in this business or making their consoles to support those games anyway. It seems clearer to me every day Nintendo is going their own way and if 3rd party publishers want to come along for the ride, they're going to have to make a game work on the console by whatever means possible.

I've been saying for a while I think disc drives are going to be the biggest bottle-neck that the new consoles have to deal with. In an age where less and less computers are being shipped with a disc drive, consoles are being left behind.

@ThomasBW84You mention that there haven't been any installs required by games on the Wii U, but I was sure that I had some games require it. Perhaps it was just an update install, but I thought I remember that the first time I've booted up several of my games that it automatically started installing something much like the way my PS3 does.

On a related matter, the constant wear and tear on the Wii U optical drives is worsened by the fact that it always runs when the system is on. Has anybody else notice that? No matter what you're doing--wandering around Wara Wara Plaza, browsing the Internet, or playing a downloaded game--the drive runs if there is a disc in it. It's absurd and completely pointless.

I don't think consoles are being left behind otherwise Sony & Microsoft would be where Nintendo is now, Nintendo is only just catching up with HD, 5 year time it'll be this problem, like when people saying Nintendo are a gen behind.

Is there any way we can all stop saying "hard drive", like the title does? There is no hard drive of any size in the Wii U, or Wii for that matter. Cant we just call it what it is, storage?

Sony just released its 12GB PS3 in the US, anybody know if this has enough space for the 8GB install after OS and formatting?

If Nintendo wanted us to use external USB drives they should have added 3.0 USB. Just bought a new PC and USB is seriously fast. How long has USB 3.0 been out now? Theres no optical port in favor of HDMI, why not drop 2.0 for 3.0?

32GB of storage is more than enough for any game installs - MLB The Show 12 is my largest at 10GB - so shouldnt we be talking about why Splinter Cell doesnt offer it more than the 32GB? (I'm disavowing the 8GB, it doesnt exist, 32GB is big enough for installs.)

GTAV I think has a lot more issues than an 8GB install. Has anybody at RS ever blamed that?

There will be many reasons why the Wii U doesnt get all PS4 and X1 games - graphical power, processing power, relationships - but I think internal storage is a minor issue in that regard.

The fact that PS3 and Xbox360 have GTAV and Madden 25 but Wii U doesnt says a lot more about 3rd party game sales than it does about hardware capabilities.

All that said, 8GB was stupid, 32GB should have been the Basic, 64GB Deluxe and we wouldnt even be having this talk.

@Kirk The 32GB is not a hard drive it is solid state storage and I'm glad they went with the storage medium they did - I don't want to buy a hard drive based system that is on a ticking time bomb for its hard drive crash

Pikmin 3 looks much better then any game out there on store shelves today. Perhaps the devs for blacklist aren't as talented as they claim? The realism in Pikmin 3 completely destroys every screenshot I saw of Blacklist.

I think we will continue to see this throughout this consoles life the Nintendo will offer us an experience almost load time free, yet the visuals will be stunning.... Seems Nintendo is far more talented at this game making business than the standard AAA garbage thrown out there.

Well I don't really care about it being solid state or whatever, and I can't see any benefit it's making on Wii U by being solid state, but the Wii U really should have had far more storage built in by default.

SSD is what is used on iPads, MacBook Airs and other products designed not to have quick failures like hard drive based iPods or laptops.

SSD has much faster read time, much better reliability, is quieter and for now much more expensive than hard drives.

I understand you want more internal storage, but I'd rather have my Wii U last longer and be more durable than have the convenience of a ticking time bomb medium of storage known as hard drives. I'll get an external if I want lots of storage. Hard drives never last very long.

It's not an issue with HDD space, as Wii U can have an ext HDD connected to solve that problem.

It's an issue with retrieving data fast enough. The Wii U disc drive operates at about 22.5MB/s. The USB ports are 2.0, which average at 25MB/s. The main reason why the PS3/360 has internal drives and PS4/XB1 have USB 3.0 isn't just about space, but speed. Internal drives (and USB 3.0) have a much higher transfer rate by comparison to external USB 2.0 drives. Someone in 2009 did a test with a 1TB SATA 7200RPM drive that has 32MB of cache, and they averaged at 87MB/s. That's over triple what USB 2.0 can do, and almost quadruple what the Wii U disc drive could do (by comparison that's almost 10x the PS3's disc drive speed).

The Wii U's flash storage isn't necessarily an SSD, but more of NAND like the Wii has. It doesn't have the kind of benefits that a usual SSD would have, like speed. Even if it was SSD, those are expensive, so they couldn't plop one in even if they wanted to. Had they gone with USB 3.0 instead of 2.0, you could bet your bottom dollar that it would certainly create havoc. Developers would be forced to develop games to use it for installation, and everyone that thought that having an ext HDD was optional will be forced to purchase one as it would become mandatory.

This is all just a question of selling a finished product. If the wii u is finished with a 32 gb built in storage unit, than that sets the precedent for future experiences. Don't get me wrong, I installed a 2tb hard drive for my wii u just to make sure I can download whichever game I want. However, it is an optional upgrade, which means the product that is wii u doesn't mandate anything.

Barebones, this means any wii u the upcoming 5 years will be able to play any game, or no publishing for you. This is the technology, find a way or make one.

Remember that te average gta game is a horrible, non-optimized mess full of sandbox bugs. You want that? I buy a nintendo console because, in part, it delivers a streamlined experience, without the need to upgrade issues and install headaches and file management and process management and whatever that is not gaming.

Once everything goes digital only, mandatory purchase-to-download-conversion setups, we are talking about a different technical setup. For now, the wii u is what it is and frankly, I've already played some of the best games this generation with a kickstart on the ecellent multiplayer nintendoland. What's the fuss with all the technicalities? I just want to e joy great games. Popping a game in and having to fill out instruction forms is not going to help that experience...

I don't see what's the big deal. I've been playing my 40go ps3 for the last 5 years and there's always been mandatory installs. Yes, it's been kind of a pain in the donkey, having to uninstall things to install new ones all the time, but it never stopped them making that mandatory.
So the problem is the 8go basic model? I taught no one buys this model and nintendo only kept it so they can say "WiiU, starting at 299". I remember reading a report saying that the ration was like 90% premium pack/ 10% basic model.
So really, it don't see where's the problem.

(And quite frankly, if you really care about super hd textures and the likes, maybe a nintendo console is not for you.)

I think the WIi U was built with External HDD in the primary mind, I got my 1Tb for 50 dollars and whenever there is an install since I buy mostly off the eshop it goes straight to the external no question asked.

This is just a thing to diss the Wii U I believe. Because on my side I think it was a pretty good move from nintendo.

Think about it, I can have as many DLCs as I want without having to delete some games 850GB more to go.

I'd be happy to see 32gb of games that I like on Wii U jkthe only disc title I've downloaded so far has been the NSMBU. My DL/disc decision is largely based on if the game is the sort I'd play every day and know I won't sell forward I consider downloading.Like the AC3... it was pretty much like a movie in the sense that once I ploughed it through (sorry for the term, it wasn't my favorite :9) I didn't feel like playing it again, and I traded it off for a new game!If let's say a Zelda title came, I might download it because I'd be quite sure I wouldn't want to part with it.

Im confused if i download a digital copy of splinter cell black list etc... then surely it should load quicker than the disc based version whats the difference between installing a disc copy to the hard drive and downloading a digital copy to the hard drive??Hey Nintendo Life maybe you could do a comparison video one day of the same game digital vs disc as I'm not rich enough to own two Wii U's lolMake it happen guys as I (and im sure others) are incredibly curious

Wii U isn't going to appeal to the "hardcore" gamer type who mostly cares about graphical performance. Yes, Wii U will probably lose out on a fair amount of 3rd party titles due to the performance gap (just like they did with the Wii) but in the end, people buy Nintendo consoles to play Nintendo games. Simple as that. I don't think it will really matter all that much.

@Turbo857 OR Nintendo could release a Wii U with a reasonable amount of storage space. Na your right I'll just buy an external hard drive. I mean it'd be nice to spend that money on a game or two. I'm such a selfish person, wanting a $300 plus gaming console to have more then 32gb hard drive.

@yenly : Thats true. I've had the issue with the PS3, where I had to delete games to download other games. Nintendo made the smart decision to allow the owner to upgrade up to 2TB if needed. If the hard drive is such an issue, package a 500GB drive with a game in the future. But its just not necessary. The majority of consumers have a sense of their electronics and will be able to purchase more space.

@SkywardCrowbar The "harcore" base is really the minority that are the most vocal, which skews the numbers of what is the majority and what is the minority, because those that simply enjoy the games are not making their voices heard, nor should they.

Whats ironic is that with compulsary installs, patches, dlc etc, etc the ps4/xb1's 500gb internal storage is nothing. My Ps3 320gb was filled in less than a year. Also as these are all internal drives if you want to upgrade its a lot more of a chore than simply plugging in a usb HDD (or a second hdd) and copying content across 'like you can with the WiiU. Yes its a shame WiiU doesn't have Usb3.0 ports but overall giving the general 32gb as standard but making it easy to upgrade storage is the best option.Tbh there's no reason via firmware update that an option to install from disc can't appear on WiiU, and even without a firmware update optional install packages could be included in games if the developers wanted to go that route on WiiU.

I feel there's a lot of misunderstanding of what a hard drive install actually is and how a program works on hardware.

Things like an AI don't take up hard drive space and having more doesn't make an AI any better. AI is actually a subject I have very strong interests in and do research in AI as a hobby. AI's in video games have hardly advanced at all since the late '80's and early '90's. There are essentially no advanced AI techniques employed in 99.9% of all games released, it's just just as simplistic as it was in the '80's. The algorithms have only gotten slightly more complex because 3d math and pathing in 3d is more complicated than 2d.

All that said again an AI doesn't really use hard drive space at all, it's all processing power. No npc really has any sort of a long term memory which is what would use hard drive space.

As I said in another topic the stock hard drive read speed of a ps3 is actually quite close to the read speed of USB2.0 and that is not much faster than the wiiU's disc read speed. No program actually runs from a hard drive at all, the hard drive is just used for virtual memory. Virtual memory is swapped into RAM on an as needed basis. This is why discs whirl/hard drives spin, they're being read and swapping things in and out of virtual memory. A hard drive is WAY too slow for a program, in fact in a lot of cases even RAM is too slow, that's why processors have multi-level caches. To a processor running multiple instructions even nanosecond waiting for the micro second access time or RAM or the eternal millisecond access time of a hard drive will quickly bring a program to it's knees.

The point is a hard drive is not the issue here. A hard drive will not make the program run faster or perform better on the wiiU. The problem is the different architectures. The ps3 and 360 need cpu optimizations, and are using their cpu to brute force a lot of things. The wiiU is more like a pc, it's needs gpu optimizations, and everything that can possibly be taken off the cpu to be done so and offloaded to the gpu. Games that are running off the external HD in a wiiU do not perform any better and so the bottleneck is not the hard drive or the disc. The problem is the lack of proper optimization. Nintendo is not using "tricks" per se as much as actual optimizations that are correct for the wiiU.

Man the Wii U is screwed. I have had freezing issues with every non-Nintendo published game that I have played on the system. There is next to zero third party support now, and what does come doesn't work half the time when compared to the PS3 and 360 versions. If third party support is this pathetic now, where will Nintendo be in a year when every developer is completely focused on the PS4 and Xbox One. Games with the words "Mario," "Zelda", and "Smash" in the title are not enough to keep the system afloat and make it a success. That's not an opinion, that's a fact. Anybody with a basic understand of economics would agree.

@FiveDigitLP Yeah, I'm distinguishing between day one updates that are automatically prompted for download, and mandatory / optional installs that relate to the core game, regardless of updates. Day one updates are a reality we all face now, as apparently a game is rarely ready when shipped

@Kirk 250MB is a pretty small amount. Thank goodness they decided to go with 8GB and 32GB models instead of the 250MB internals of the original 360 arcade version. I agree with you if you were trying to say that they should have had at least a 250GB internal drive, but we need to understand that they are using SSD type of internal memory and SSDs with 250GB are at cheapest right now, $175US. This would have made the console much more expensive and I can't see them putting in a Standard type of HDD that "spins". There would be copious amounts of problems with those drives right out of the box and the potential for further damage due to moving the console from place to place would be compounded by the fact that the drive could become faulty due to a "hard bump". It would be nice for them to have more internal storage, but right now you can get a 500GB external HDD for around $50US. So, for $400US you can have a Wii U deluxe with two games(two games limited to certain bundles) for the same price as the base model of the PS4. Nintendo seems to be behind the curve on the storage front, but being able to use any external HDD with the console kinda negates the problem.

It's not selfish to expect more storage from a $300+ console but when the company that makes it includes an expensive innovative gamepad offering a second screen (w/all of its features), somethings need to be omitted in order to make it affordable. And if it's extra storage that gets chopped, so be it.

Besides the Wii U has enough built in storage to accommodate a mandatory install, provided players didn't already use the space. But regardless, that shouldn't stop publishers from using a mandatory install as an option if they feel their game will run better because of it. Worst case scenario, a gamer buys an external hard drive.

Xbox 360 has an option because not everyone has a harddrive. It's pretty simple to add a harddrive. The Nintendo site gives recommendations and links. Definitely need to include one in a future release, though.

Speaking of facts, we need to see how well the PS4 and Xbox One sell after launch first in order to determine how badly of a position the Wii U will ultimately be with third parties. I think it would be foolish to assume that third parties will focus all of their efforts on those systems if they're in the same boat as the Wii U as far as sales are concerned.

If that turns out to be the case it'll be cheaper to develop for the Wii U than newer hardware and that alone could improve third party support for the Wii U. Even still, the Wii U will get better quality ports as long as it finds a larger install base.

Nice. Long story short: yet again Nintendo failed to plan ahead. IMO they ought to be designing TODAY the next blockbuster console to be released at Christmas 2015. A 3 year life cycle on this U is enough, now think ahead and get moving. And don't name it a "Wii anything".

@ThomasBW84No, I realize that you're distinguishing between the two...I just thought I remember seeing a portion of the game being installed, but in hindsight was thinking it may have been an update.

Personally, what I'd really like to see is a triple-A game that is download-only and see how it performs on the Wii U. I've heard the download version of Splinter Cell still has issues, so maybe it's because it's still running off the same code that is limited to the speeds of the optical drive...? Or, as some have suggested, maybe there's still a bottleneck on the read rate with the Wii U's hard drive? It's hard to say...

@Yorumi The Wii U's cpu is the same or better than the 360's when it is actually used properly (i.e 3 cores at 1.6ghz). The problem is what dev's do is ignore the optimal way of using the 360 so they can do a straight port to the PS3 (On one core at 3.2ghz - they ignore the spu's on the PS3 as well).

PS3 with the SPU's used properly is probably better but I cannot see it suddenly being used properly after all this time.

Only problem is people don't optimize for the system properly. (Only reason to use a console is because they are all identical if you are just going to use it like a low end pc there is no point).

They should've given the premium pack at least 64GB and the normal SKU 32. That way both would've been able to support installs without the need of an extra disc. Yeah its still not much but people can move games they aren't playing anymore (or less often) to an external HDD anyway. And those are cheap.Yes I wouldn't have minded to not get Nintendo Land for free or maybe a slightly higher price. But I am glad they went with SDD.

I am not into violence or GTA4...But I kinda want to dust of my 360 for GTA5. Just to roam around and dive! I am hoping with EVERY cell of my body they'll announce a Wii U (and PC) version.

From what I've heard from developers the Wii U should be capable of running GTA5. And if it still needs a mandatory install: people who would buy that game on Wii U surely are gamers who know how to buy a cheap HDD or have a premium pack.

Mark my words, when/if the Wii U sells like hotcakes they will want to bring it to that platform. It might even be less work than creating it for PS4 and X1. The GamePad is perfect for GTA.

@unrandomsam well yeah that's pretty much it. In a lot of ways I wish games wern't multiplatform so that they could be optimized for their specific hardware.

Unfortunately I don't think most people in this discussion understand at all that a program isn't running off your hard drive, or understand what optimizations really are and why that's the problem and not the hardware. Really from what I'm reading I'd say even the article writer doesn't really understand what's going on here.

I like that Nintendo doesn't force you to buy a hard drive. However, they should have done more to have that bundled with a partnership of some sort. However, I think all the next generation systems are still going to do it this way. Sony has shown with the Vita and Microsoft with the 360 that they still like selling overpriced memory to subsidize their losses on hardware.

On a quick note. Splinter Cell on WiiU had Vsync running, which drastically hampers any extra frames. The 360/PS3 had tearing. And also WiiU version did have equivalent average frames to the alternate systems. Not to mention the WiiU is also running footage on the Gamepad, ppl seem to just miss that point that WiiU is actually pulling off much higher resolution (accomodating for that 2nd screen)
I don't see Nintendo releasing a SKU with an HDD, only because they're much bulkier than equivalent SSD memory, and would probably mean a complete overhaul of the entire WiiU chassis and shell design.
I almost can't see why installs can't be made optional on WiiU. I have a 2 Terabytes externally and the USB 2.0 connection should be fast enough to stream that data. Or better than the disc drive anyways.
A lot of these 3rd party games are still being developed with PS3/360 in mind as the common denominator. So WiiU's hardware still isn't being taken proper advantage of, like the extra 512 MB's of RAM the WiiU has onboard available for gaming (and extra 1.5 GBs if you include the OS memory).
WiiU isn't deficiant, it's only a matter of devs programming correctly for the system. More likely all the Indie devs will do good on that front.
And this article still also ignores the fact that game quality isn't defined by it's graphics, it's defined by game design and art direction. WiiU is more than capable of making titles that will rival XB1 and PS4 in terms of the fun-factor

BTW, battlefield is said to run better on ps3 over ps4. I think the issue is developers are learning new hardware. I think ubi did well with the new splinter cell given the work that was required to get it on wii u. I've never been a fan of forced download installs; developers should release a quality product the first time. It's understandable that an update may come, but it should be relatively small.

Doesn't games with long loading times, like Lego City Undercover, still suffer from the same problem even if bought from the eShop and played directly from the on-board memory?Would installing solve anything in Wii U's case?

The reality is that the Wii U will not be able to play games developed for the next generation consoles. You talk about graphics over and again, but graphics are only one part of the equation. The things that will be implemented into the next generation video games (advanced AI, physics, etc.) will require significantly more processing power than the current generation games. When you add the graphics upgrade, especially when you factor in that the PS4 is launching a title with Ray Tracing in it, the Wii U simply will not be capable of playing these games, regardless of scaling.

@Slapshot you arn't going to be seeing much in the way of advanced AI. AI just isn't advancing in games because people don't care for it. Physics maybe but a lot of those advances are in faster algorithms rather than more processing(see the hair/cloth simulator).

@Moshugan yeah loading times on lego city are just as bad on the hard drive. Installs won't change anything because as I pointed out that's not the problem and people who think it is don't understand what is actually happening when a program runs.

The article recognizes that it isn't an issue now and users can get a hardrive if it becomes an issue in the future. Not mentioned in the article is that cost of storage and tech like ssd are reduced and become even more reliable over time. My synthesis would be that increasing storage at a later date and when needed is the best and most cost effective strategy.

@WebHead The Nintendo Wii U has either an 8 or 32 GB memory module similar to an SSD. I am sure Nintendo did this for speed and reliability. For the cost they could have easily chosen to include an 80 or 160 GB HDD if they wanted. I like the option of having an external drive though USB 3.0 would have been techy and fast, 2.0 is still sufficient. I feel that if a game merits disk memory it should force the install. If you don't have the memory it should ask you to remove things or connect an external drive. A second option is have a limited texture map gameplay option that runs from disc alone, and an improved HDD option. The Wii U shouldn't hold back gaming performance for those who bought the Basic version.

Can you play on Wii U from a USB thumb drive?If you can do that and you need a mandatory install, include a small USB stick pre-loaded with the install; plug it in when you play the game (easy to do, front load slots )

@Pachterkid I'm sorry. I believe the word you're looking for is "prediction", not "fact". Predictions are in fact opinions based on data and are not facts until they actually happen, if they happen.

@Slapshot: With such advancements and bloated budgets, is it really advantageous for the industry to take games this far? With game prices remaining the same (~$60), publishers are going to see less return on ridiculous investments...and some of them even call millions of sales "failures".

If the time comes when a Wii U game needs a mandatory install, why not make a bundle including, say, a > 50 GB hard drive? Shouldn't be too expensive, people that have a hard drive can buy the game alone, and those that need more memory later can upgrade when they need it.

That said, why didn't Wii U get an optional game install for Ghost Recon? It's not like that measly 8 GB in the Basic model can't be expanded (like that model sold very well....), and I'm sure those with hard drives that picked up the game would have appreciated it.

With all due respect this column sounds like someone making excuses for Ubisoft's refusal to spend any resources optimising games on Wii U. It sends its Wii U games off to get made in places like Shanghai and Budapest. I'm sure those are Ubisoft's top teams...

@ScroogeMcLz Yes, they have to. We've already seen the middle tier (low to middle budget titles from small and major publishers) of of the industry subside drastically and the publishers that are left are the ones that have a large amount of capital to bank upon. Either these publishers push their top tier games ahead as far as they can to attract as many consumers possible, or they risk the continued stagnation that we're seeing in the industry right now.

You have to realize that these top budget titles sell extremely well. Assassins Creed III has sold over 12 million units worldwide. Based on the $20 profit to third party publishers rule on new retail titles, that's $240 million in revenue on that one game alone. The more these developers continue to bring the "wow" factor, the more people will spend to get these games.

Nintendo is struggling to sell its games at the $60 price point for a different reason - it is the platform holder. It's Wii U isn't selling, which is money that's being lost and it isn't attracting third party games, which is lost licensing and royalty revenue streams. It's then spending the high cost of AAA HD development to support its struggling console, which is more money that's being output. When you're continually spending money on a console and not recovering it in console/game sells, it makes things very difficult, especially in the eyes of investors.

People seem to of forget the reasons why the 360 was enabled via firmware to install from disc... to reduce risk of RROD.People Also forget Why Ps3 has so many forced installs or optional Texture installs... Because the data transfer rate from Bluray is extremely slow (6mbps I believe) and is to help with game load speeds, late texture loading common in a lot of early Ps3 games.

Yer not an issue, bought a 2Tb Hdd, an I have monster hunter, pikimin 3, 101, and my indies and virtual console. I leave the Wii U Hdd free so not to slow it down. With the refund I get from being a premium owner I cant see why I wouldn't download games. Oh and I am not a fan of owning a bunch of physical copies.

Hmm a non-issue for me. I am one of those people who usually buy retail only for new games and am glad that the Wii U is priced cheaply for us.

That said I would be fine with buying an external hard drive if I actually needed it. I don't need one currently, games don't need install times so there is that. Plus I stuck an 8GB SD card in there cause I had it lying around so I still have somewhat decent space for things. (no install is good because I don't like installs in general regardless of if they waste time since they waste a lot of disk space.)

The Wii U handles memory completely different anyway. The worst I see happening is including a 8/16GB USB2.0 stick with the install already on there with the game, and that's if they go to 50GB on the discs.

@Realgamer4life If you're a parent who isn't familiar with the video game industry and don't follow Nintendo online, then you're not going to know. Let's say that your child wants a Wii U for his birthday, along with a game. You give that Wii U to your precious child along with that game, only to discover that that game needs to be installed, and the space on your system isn't enough.

Wouldn't that suck?

There's lots of people who don't follow Nintendo a lot that may want to buy their system. Regardless of whether Nintendo recommends an external Hardrive, many people aren't going to hear, because they just want to buy the system and some games.

What I don't get is this article only looks at the negative. of the space. If I buy anything I read the directions so lets say people read theirs. There is a part in the manual that if I'm not mistaken recommends a external self powered HDD.If I am not mistaken you get the option of where to instal stuff. If this is a problem for developers they can always reach out to Nintendo to add an update so that they can have the updates go to the External HDD and if you don't have one connected a warning message prompts you to add one. So the uestion of why this article is written this way is weird why not write a article on purchasing an external HDD so that people don't miss out on updates? Guess that's to easy.

Good thing I bought that 1TB drive at launch. It's better than any drive Nintendo would have included, anyway.

I already went through Microsoft's storage mess on the 360 and PS3's no option whatsoever, so I'm not seeing what Nintendo is doing worse than either here. Neither one of them lets me use a 1TB drive to render all space complaints moot.

@Peek-a-boo but you don't have to pay extra money for nintendo online services, so you will be paying for the ps4 almost twice over in just six years. storage isn't a problem when sony/microsoft are bleeding people dry for online and still expect them to buy games, accessories, etc.

@Realgamer4life People can indeed read directions. I don't know how many people that do read directions, though. I know I don't, but I do my research. Most consumers, however, probably want things to be as simple as be.

Since the hardrive isn't mandatory, many people won't go for it, as they won't see the point in taking advantage of the great things a hardrive would offer. If it was so integral, why not just include it? They just want to play some games off of the discs they buy.

How many people who bought a Wii U actually use an external HDD for their system? Even if it's a high percentage of the userbase, you won't want to take chances and mandate it on your game. It's too risky.

Is it not possible for Nintendo to make you have to install some of the game to the system? Could they release it in an update, and of course the system memory isn't the lowest on the market like the Xbox 360's so Nintendo could release Higher memory Wii U's or you could buy a flash drive or external hard drive if you got the lower models

@SCAR392 You can only play from 1 hdd at anytime upto 2tb. However you can connect 2 hdd's each upto 2tb to copy/move data either as backup or when expanding your storage. i.e 1tb upgrade to 2tb. Thats how I understood it from the firmware notes anyway.

@GiftedGimpI understand that you can only use one at a time, but that would just mean it would access whichever one has the data you're trying to run. I could be wrong, but the only way to find out is if you have a 2TB hooked up, then plug in a USB(at the very least) to confirm whether it can handle more memory separately.

Also, perhaps they expect the use of 2 HDDs to allow users to store games they plan on briging somewhere.I can technically leave my ext. HDD hooked up at all times, then use a 32GB USB flash drive to bring some games I plan on playing on another Wii U console without transferring everything.

@SCAR392 Just tested- You can run games/apps from both 1 hdd and the internal memory simultaneously. However when you have two usb storage devices a message tells you that you can manage data between devices. You get 2 options one being cancel the other to take you to data managment. By canceling you then get a message telling you only one usb storage can be in use at a time. then the system reboots the main menu, presumably to give you time to disconnect one of the devices.
So no unfortunatley no dual HDD use, at the moment at least, even just for memory data due to the way the OS detects usb storage.
I used my 2tb HDD and a 2gb Flash Stick for the test
Btw.. might see if thats possible, I can copy a VC title to my flash stick and take to my cousins see if the game loads up on his WiiU.. but depends on drm and how its handled, be good to know if although purchases are linked to hardware wether the actual hdd is what the drm is linked to rather than the WiiU, I very much doubt it,as it seems very open to game sharing if thats the case.

@GiftedGimpYou would still have to sign into your NNID on your cousin's Wii U to allow use of the software on your data device. I don't think that's an option as of yet, but it doesn't hurt to try, and I expect some sort of option like I described will be available eventually.

@Yorumi please post more. I hate being surrounded by the majority of people that think they know when they dont. Its so much better to just be quiet when you dont know stuff. When these debates happen it has to drive you nuts. I know it would me if I knew what you knew. I miss the more simplistic days of gaming when these topics get too far out of hand.

@Yorumi Man I read your long post and I have to say that out of all the comments here that I normally see (won't get into specifics), your comment seemed the most logical and sensible. Someone who is a Nintendo fan and is not afraid to call them out if something isn't right. I don't know much about computers, but now I will get myself acquainted with the lingo. Good stuff man!

Never mind memory, i want Nintendo to release a Wiimote 2.0 with an analogue stick. Camera control in pikmin 3 using the wiimote was just terrible. During the final boss battle i battled the camera morethan the boss itself! Killed what was up until that point a very fun game.

@Subie98 LOL Right! I had my fair share of arguments on this site. Anyone can tell ya, but I stayed away from this because I wanted to know more. I don't argue anything I don't know about. Yorumi seemed to have it down pat. Normally Peach64 does have great posts as well, but he's been getting scrutinized lately for them. It's all good.

@BATRA you are so mistaken, developers wont take the wii U seriusly if all the models come with so small amount of space on each console simply because you cant force people to buy an extra hdd just to play a new game.

since the wii Nintendo dont care too much about technological stuff, they are focus on their own way to make consoles but now I am sure nowdays its pretty obsolete, no massive storage, no bluray, I do like Nintendo but their poor decissions lately with their console forced me to get a second console, in this case Im pretty sure I will more happy having my ps4 with my wii U

@MadAussieBloke many people still dont understand yet, this is not about buy an extra hdd and be done, if Nintendo dont make a model with more storage by default developers cannot force people to install games since is not included by nintendo, no company can force you to buy an extra hdd in order to play a game and thats the big difference between ps4, and wii U

@jayclayxBy the time the Wii U needs more default storage, 9th gen will be in the air. The 8/32GB worth of storage is more integrated into the system than people seem to think. Since it's SSD memory, the system can access system data faster as whole if disc games actually do need a faster route to draw data from.You could technically put in a high processor demanding disc, and assign (I.E.)4GB to work as more cache buffer.

The 20GB Xbox 360 ends up only being 13GB after system requirments, and it isn't mandatory which leads me to believe that that is integrated to take full advantage of te HDD in the first place.

This is kind of off topic, but does anyone know if I can delete a downloaded game on my Wii U and keep the save files. I want to download Splinter Cell, and I'm waiting on an external storage drive, but I want to play it sooner so I'm going to delete one of my other games to make space but I want to keep my save files. Can I?

@jayclayx read my long post above, the storage space isn't the issue at all. Games arn't installed to a hard drive to help with storage space it's because of the extremely slow read speeds of the other two console's discs. A USB 2.0 port reads at 30MB/s, the wiiU's disc reads at 22MB/s. A ps3's stock hard drive reads at 35MB/s, compare this to it's disc which reads at 9MB/s. That's why it needs installs, you get nearly 4 times the read speed. This is then compounded by the lower RAM meaning you're going to many more page faults in virtual memory and need to access the drive much more often than the wiiU will because it can load more into real memory.

As I pointed out programs don't actually run from a hard drive they run from RAM. A hard drive install is not the issue here, it's poor or non-existent optimization. A game optimized for a ps3 or 360 is not going to run well on a wiiU because a wiiU needs a different set of optimizations. If a game is properly optimized for a wiiU it will beat a ps3 or 360 any day.

It seems like there is a problem deciphering fact from opinions and predictions. Maybe I'm just a patient person, but I haven't minded the slow loading time. Having more internal storage would have been appealing, at least to the general public...
How many people will get buy an external HD for their Xbone or PS4, anyway?
To be honest, I think this article belongs almost a year ago...
Also, thank you Yorumi for clearing up a lot of these comments, and making this topic more sensible.

@Yorumi kind of agree with you, specially with the reading rate, sadly it seems like developers are to familiar with the old generation and too lazy to optimize a game in an almost one year old console.

@rjejrI was just going to mention that I got that email from Sony. Seems kinda odd as GTA V will need 8gb of installed data. The price is pretty terrible as well, $199. I got my PS3 with 150GB for that price on sale. I think the OS takes up 3gb as my remaining space is out of 147gb.

@WebHead I agree... its always something isn't it?... They are very durable though, i really like that when i buy a Nintendo product i know im getting quality... its just that sometimes like you said, the penny pinch and end up holding themselves back by being so different. Theres pros and cons i guess

The Wii U doesn't need to install texture pack or anything on hard drive, the Wii U possesses S3TC compression capabilities that compresses textures up to six times and saves memory bandwidth by half withouth sacrificing visual quality, that being said, devs should strive to be smarten up a little and take advantage of S3TC which is not available in any other home console, that will help them achieve what Pikmin 3 did.

Now, as for game downloads goes, the Wii U uses flash memory which is a lot faster than HDD if Nintendo would have given us say 500 GB of flash memory, the console would have costed around 800 American dollars, however if Nintendo had given us HDD instead of flash the OS would need to be very simplistic, like those of current gen consoles otherwise it would run slower, same as with game patches. The reason Nintendo went for flash was to avoid all that hassle to the consumers and to the developers.

@Peek-a-booI don't think so. The PS4 isn't THAT much better. Sure it's better, with more RAM and bigger HDD, but the difference between Wii U and PS4 is actually less than Wii and PS3 was. Also take into account the extremely cutting edge piece of kit known as the gamepad, which costs Nintendo themselves between $125-150 to manufacture, and the Wii U is actually up to scratch when you think about it.

Wii U has 2gb RAM instead of 8 and less hard drive space, but it also has a touch-enabled 6.2 in. second screen controller with near-zero latency via bluetooth, NFC capability, infrared sensors, acceleration and 9-axis gyroscope, built in mic, full surround-capable headphone jack and 1.3mp camera. The value of Wii U is evident in different areas, but that doesn't mean it's "less value" as if the PS4 is some almighty console that dwarfs everything else ever conceived.

@ZupI THINK you can. I know you can on the 3DS. Actually I'm almost positive you can. Yes. You can lol. Go into system settings and check it out. The save file should be underneath the actual game or app.

@Wowfunhappy are you insane? you would prefer longer load times than an install?? To me installing is good and I don't mind waiting that long time to install because at the end of the say it is just ONE install. Playing the Last of Us or Uncharted 3 on my PS3, the install took forever, roughly about 20-40 minutes (can't really remember) but after that the load times are essentially non-existent. Aside from the initial start up load which takes around 5 minutes or so, there are basically no other load times once you start playing. So in conclusion, I think if you experienced the difference, you wouldn't make such a comment.

@JaxonH Are you crazy!? I love Nintendo but you cant deny that the Wii U is lacking when it comes to their hardware choices. PS4 is definitely going to be way more powerful than Wii U. The Wii U in my opinion is slightly better than the PS3 no more no less (hardware wise). The PS4 uses hardware that really good gaming pcs have.(something that wii u and current consoles just cant compare with)

Thats not to say that the Wii U is bad, it just focuses more on innovative gameplay ideas over powerful hardware. I personally like both but when it comes to hardware PS4 definitely has the crown.

@Play-Doh_25
The Wii U is pretty powerful. There's no doubt at all that it's more powerful than PS3.
We really haven't seen real world performance of any of the 8th gen consoles, so I don't see how you're drawing the conclusion that it's the best machine, especially with Xbox One still in the mix.

I'd rather own an Xbox One and a Wii U than a PS4 by itself, or another machine besides that. If I liked PS4 games in the slightest, I would just stick with that, seeing as it has the PS Eye, Move, and Vita there which is essentially what the other 2 consoles are doing, combined.

Most people that like PS4 like to say that they think Kinect, Wii remotes, and the GamePad are gimmicks, yet Sony has those sort of options that aren't really supported by the fanbase much at all.

@SCAR392 PS4 and XBone are practically the same hardware wise. I just prefer ps because of their exclusives. I plan to buy a wii u and a ps4. Microsoft is a great company that makes great interfaces but when it comes down to the exclusives PS to me is better. (Most of XBone exclusives arent really exclusives since theyre coming to pc too and I would rather play on my pc over ps or xb)

I dnt think the gamepad or motion control are gimicks. Theyre innovative additions to gameplay. Thats why I love nintendo. However I hate how the other companies copy nintendo's idea. Im not a big fan of Kinect because XB hasnt given me a reason to like it. They barel promote it with their games. I dnt like Move but thats not why Im getting a PS4. Im getting it for the games it offers.

@SkywardCrowbar right you are. Bundle an external with the next deployment of Wii Us. Like a 250GB or something. Strike a deal with Western Digital or Seagate to get an awesome deal for it. Add $25 to the price if you have to, or if Nintendo feel like being champs, include it at the same price. Launch it this Christmas. Be awesome.

@Play-Doh_25 the fact Wii U is selling at a loss proves my point that the value is in the hardware it's just not all tied up into RAM and proc. I don't know where you're getting your info but the PS4 is not Alienware. Idk who told you that but it's not true.

@jcags the os uses that amount of ram to practically eliminate load times. By the way PS4 offers 8 gb of ram which is in line with a gaming computer with really good performance. For the price (399$) thats extremely good.

@Play-Doh_25 it only improves the speed of the OS itself, games will have 2 or 3 GB of RAM at most, on PC the Windows takes aprox 1 GB + anything else in the background, that's at the very least 5 GB of ram for games, granted that the ps4's GDDR5 handles textures better but all in all it's not that powerful, specially compared to Wii U, of course I'm not saying Wii U is more powerful, just powerful enough.

You arn't going to be seeing much in the way of advanced AI. AI just isn't advancing in games because people don't care for it. Physics maybe but a lot of those advances are in faster algorithms rather than more processing(see the hair/cloth simulator).

I actually disagree with that Watch Dogs developers has already go in depth about the advanced AI in the next gen versions of Watch Dogs. Also Thief developers have talked about there advanced AI, everything getting upped this gen otherwise there would be not point in next gen hardware, it would be totally pointless.

@jcags
How does anyone apart from Sony know how much dedicated RAM is for games & OS as Sony not said anything yet. So i wouldn't say there is 5GB for games because no one knows yet, unless you believe rumours which say there is 6GB for games. Also the PS4 has been modified to use GDDR5 for system as well, because GDDR5 & DDR3 are two totally different types of RAM, hence the "G".

The 8Gb model is a joke to be honest and just another example of Nintendo's crazy business decisions. They develop some of the best games in the business but let themselves down with things like this imo...

OK.. TBH, when I heard the 8gb and 32gb storage, I was disappointed, but I'm not even using it anyway. I don't know a dent much about SSDs or whatever, but my opinion is as follows;1) The Wii U may be more expensive.2) Console design may even change.3) Judging from what some people say, it has fast speed, right?4) Hard Drives in my country are very expensive. But all in all, I'd love a bigger memory that's efficient.

That Digital Foundry article smells of BS. For one the other versions look almost unplayable due to the ridiculous amount of screen tearing. For two the Wiiu version looks BETTER than the other versions when you look at the screens. For three most of the frame rate dips seem like they're in cutscenes. For four, this game shouldn't need a install to work, period!

For those of those in the US looking for a good deal on External Hard drives keep an eye on Newegg.com. They sell computer parts and sometimes video games for cheap (especially if you sign up for their newsletters).

Got my ZombiU bundle for $351 back in March because of one of their sweet deals, and I've seen 1TB hard drives going for $50-$60 sometimes. Missed my chance to save $10 on Rayman Legends last week though T_T.

And I am again gonna say what I've said multiple times already - installing a game on Wii U will not improve loading times unless the game could read from both the optical drive and hard drive/flash at the same time. Nintendo mounted a horribly slow flash inside both Wii U versions (real world reads are equal to external USB 2.0 hard drive, and write is about five times slower from my measuerements).

Besides - the transfers Wii U optical drive achieves are roughly equal to what anything plugged into Wii U's USB 2.0 ports will have. We can't get faster loading times by installing games on Wii U. Full stop. It would only work if the console could utilise both data storage devices at the same time, and that would make spacing the data on the optical disc properly.

Besides - eShop releases have exactly the same loading times as optical versions. That should be a clue enough to tell you that this discussion is a moot point because of, sadly, a bit broken Wii U architecture.

I think this could also be part of the reason why we never saw Battlefield 3 on the system. The texture packs, patches and map packs all add up, so an external drive would have undoubtedly been necessary.

@originaljohn - Maybe for £350 people expect a bit more than 32Gb considering how cheap it is these days.

I know the Gamepad costs Nintendo and they had to cut costs somewhere but the rest of the hardware is 8 years old! I don't want ugly external HDD's cluttering up my entertainment area and would prefer the storage to be internal rather than external.

@Zup Yes youcan go i to data managment and go into the game files for the game you want to delete. You'll see The game, And save files seperatly and maybe a file for patches and dlc. Just delete the files you want to. If you wanted you can even plug in a WiiU format a flash stick and copy you save/s to that for back-up.

@datamonkeyIt's flash not HD so that internal 32GB costs is a bit more. I go myself a 64GB flash usb-stick for about 35$ (5 months ago, original SanDisk product, might be even cheaper now). U can plug it in the front of your Wii U or even better in the back where you won't hear, see or notice that it's there.

@datamonkey maybe Nintendo wanted to build a games console and explore different game play mechanics. Putting an age on hardware that hasn't had time to prove itself is quite foolish in the games industry. Cutting edge hardware doesn't guarantee your buying the best games console.

when playing my wii i played all my games from off an external harddrive. the loading times weren't bad at all and all i access to all my games. im sure a lot of people today own external harddrives and to me it would easier to load games from there. but the wii u has a small hard drive which is not good if you want to install games. but to me this isn't ninty's biggest issue. and for the noob who said that the wii u is meant for nintendo games you must not really be a gamer..

Sure, I guess the option makes sense, but they should never be mandatory. And if load times get too long, well then someone isn't doing their job right, or is utilising hardware in a way technology hasn't prepared it for as of yet.

Make future installs optional. That way, the people without external HDDs may have to sit through longer loading times but they won't be left unable to play the game. Those with external HDDs will be able to play the game as intended.

Nintendo just flopped this year, the ps4 is going to leave it in the dust. As far as im concerned im enjoying the wii u until November. i don't even care about the space issues, this system has had nothing but problems since the day it released. Even if the system makes a turn around its going against current generation stuff, remember the word "current", Nintendo released this system way to late with way to many shortcomings, i hate it but i just have to except it

if they wanted to truly leave us with a system they would have released it with enough space, and enough decent content, with the knowledge of what its competitors are doing and what the people want in general

space should never be an issue we shouldnt have to install anything , all the consoles suffer from this. its a big headache and not enough asprin in the world to make it go away

I would rather have the external HDD so when it dies I can easily throw it away and buy a new one and just redownload my games... Internal would mean I'd have to send it back to Ninty for repair after a (insert something of death) happens

I already had my fair share of problems with 2 HDDs. 1 wouldnt run at all (2TB), it gets recognized but as soon as the icon for a connected HDD appears, the connection is permanently lost for that session, and my second one (1TB) had some connection errors too, but they mave have been caused by a faulty usb cable.Nintendo should seriously consider its own brand of HDDs and a peripheral to attach it to the console itself, maybe a sleek stand or some kind of claw, clinging into the side of the system. And since the WiiU formats HDDs into its own file system, these Nintendo made HDD could be catered exactly to these specific needs in terms of access speed and whatnot.That way, nintendo would make additional profits while keeping the console price lower for a more casual market, and it would be a much more elegant solution than just having a HDD lie next to the system.

@odd69 "what its competitors are doing and what the people want in general" is definitly NOT what i want to see on a Nintendo system to be honest. Look at the launch lineup of the two upcomming consoles. Its the same stuff we got over and over this generation. There is literally nothing new on the table. These games simply look better...at least a couple of them...if youre not a PC gamer.The Wii had the same space problem, that got solved after the SD update. And i have never heard of anyone complaining about that ever again.Space on the WiiU isnt that convenient, but it is no problem. HDDs are getting cheaper by the minute, so everyone should be able to afford at least a 500GB HDD. That is more than enough to stole some games on it if you dont go crazy and download anything from the eShop. In my opinion, the unconventional way nintendo is going is definitly the right one. The Xbox360 and PS3 were indistinguishable from one another. Except for a couple of exclusives that werent all that special and unique, both system offered the same content, although differ quite heavily in technical specs.People picked on the 360 for not using BluRay, and what happened at the end of the day ? The PS3 didnt use it either in terms of games. The games that dependet on the larger storage capacity of a BluRay can be counted with one hand,People now are picking on the WIiU for not beeing a high tech super computer, but i yet have to see a game on the two new consoles that looks as great as X is looking in an early development stage.Another aspect why "just HD tech" can be beneficial and the right way ? You can make games for it without going completely bankrupt. Ubisoft stated, that they wont be able to make one shot games anymore because of how expansive it is to make next gen games. They focs on games that can be made into franchises, i guess so they can use already made assets over and over to save money. Is that what you want to see ? I dont, im sick of this generation producing the same games over and over, beeing praised like they reinvented the wheel with the next call of something, just because "it looked pretty".

"So what can Nintendo do about this? Like the HD systems that have come before, new iterations can be released that have a lot more on-board storage; if millions of Wii U systems in the wild have this extra memory built in, devs may be tempted to start following the Rockstar example and insist on mandatory installations, telling those with less memory to pick up external hard drives. That's the message Nintendo gave when the current models were revealed, too, that we should be pleased to save the money on the unit and get external hard drives when ready. That's absolutely fair and valid right now but, again, we're thinking further ahead."

Sorry for the big quote but you're telling me to buy another Wii U or an HDD and i don't like that idea.

The problem is space, there is no HDD in the wii u as it is. In order to fit everything into the small beautiful case the storage is soldered directly to the motherboard. If not then the case would be much bigger. Good design by Nintendo. The external storage solution was the best choice.

Games designed on one system and shoehorned onto another are always going to be inferior regardless of excuses like the storage size. I know not everyone can afford more than one system, but if you have a Wii U now, work on your backlog while saving towards getting a decent PC in the next year, then maybe a PS4 by the 2nd or 3rd revision (in 2-3 years) to pick up the handful of exclusive games there. By this time, the superior versions of games coming out over the next year or two will be DIRT cheap via Steam and "Greatest Hits" and you'll be all set. If you want the best versions of the best non-exclusive 3rd party games, the Wii U will never keep you satisfied.

@TruenoGT I don't have the time or money to invest in more than one home console - I'm quite happy with the supply of games coming out to Wii U and 3DS. I wouldn't have any extra money to buy twice as many games getting another system.

@tchaten While I occasionally game on the PC, I'm also more than happy with the selection of Wii/WiiU and DS/3DS software available. I meant this more for players for whom this may not be enough and would be disappointed by inferior versions of 3rd party games. Personally, I don't know how gamers have the time for playing all the great games on more than 1-2 systems!

Fot those of you saying oh "buy an extra hard drive its like $50-100" why would any smart consumer do that when that extra $50-100 can go towards a ps4 which is a much better deal then the Wii u. 500gbs and a much stronger system that can do way more. The reason I have yet to buy a Wii u is because of its baby 32gb and lack of any games even the ones coming out this end of the year just arent appealing. All games that we've seen before and I mean in game style.(3d world-3d land etc except Sonic lost world. Its sad where the Wii u is headed too. Nintendo better think of something big if they hope to combat ps4 and X1 this coming holiday

Did anyone ever think that maybe they're wrong, and the Wii U doesn't have the problems they think it does?
First of all, it's powerful enough. Second, memory isn't an issue unless you want to download stuff, and you'll know whether you want an ext. HDD or not. If some people don't know what an HDD is by now, they've been under a rock for longer than anyone can remember. Third, the optical disc drive is just as fast as blu-ray, so if the Wii U is gonna have problems, then so will the Xbox One and PS4.
The Xbox One and PS4 are going to handle things the EXACT same way Wii U will, besides the 500GB HDD that is included. Last time I checked, HDD space isn't really built for a disc to take shortcuts from, because that just means there are problems somewhere else. The only reason why you should ever want to install something is for possible faster load times, and reduced disc drive wear and tear(which shouldn't be a problem in the first place, and only applies to full digital files on the HDD in comparison to the disc).
This is 8th gen, guys. Not every concept or limitation from last generation is still relevant, otherwise it wouldn't be considered next gen, and that includes the Xbox One and the PS4.

The fact that people brought up the blu-ray drive vs. optical disc drive proves no one has any real idea what they're talking about, because that spec is same across the board.

Since the ps4 was brought up another misconception appeared. RAM really doesn't equal power at all. The RAM in the ps4 is mostly for background processes, game do not need that much RAM. More RAM can reduce load times and sometimes frame stuttering if it's just abhorrently low. More RAM just reduces page faults with virtual memory.

The ps4 is doing a lot of background work like streaming and that's what it needs the RAM for. To give you an idea my gaming PC, which is far superior to a ps4 is only running 4GB of RAM, even if you want to combine my video card in there it's only 7GB total. RAM quantities similar, but not exactly like, the mhz myth with cpus/gpus. Sony is hoping you look at it and say "duh look how big the number is," even though it's sort of a meaningless number.

When you compare the ps4 and wiiU gpu's, which is what really matters, you find they're pretty similar. Yes the ps4 is more powerful than a wiiU that's not in doubt. However, people are severely underestimating the power of the wiiU, it's gpu is capable of some very advanced graphics and physics effects. I'm pretty sure one was seen in pikmin 3, I havn't 100% confirmed this but when the juice pours into the jars I believe it's running and actual fluid dynamics simulation.

If devs work with the wiiU and actually properly optimize the game and take advantage of the hardware you see amazing things. There is not nearly as large a gap between the wiiU and ps4 as people think.

I don't see a problem with the memory. I don't download retail games to it, and I have the 32GB black model and as well as a 32GB flash drive in it as well as my 8GB SD card for my Wii VC and WiiWare games.

That's quite an interesting point here. Personally i prefer being able to just plug in an external HDD instead of having to constantly uninstall games to free up space or having to switch internal components.Does that mean "U, Wii have a problem"? Atm it seems the Wii U will once again go down in history as a console that does things differently so you'll probably have to buy a Onestation 4 to get these typical 3rd party titles once more.

Went ahead and bought a 2 tb hardrive which works ok. However, the intial deluxe model should have been 500gb, especially at the entry price back then. Also, especially since Ninty seemed to bang on about big plans for the DL scence, including retail downloads. Still, Wii U is aces.

As per usual people over blow minor issues when it comes to the WiiU. The lack of storage space is very minor when you think about it. As people have stated if you want more, it takes nothing to connect an external drive. I for one preferred that Nintendo released the system with the small flash memory. It kept the prices down making it cheaper to buy. I already have multiple external drives for various reasons for the PC, it took nothing to just move one to the WiiU.

As an example (yet not limited to) why I prefer it this way, take a look at the PS3. If you only had a 250 gb drive, and later want to upgrade to a larger drive, you will lose everything you have on that drive unless you have access to a second PS3 (with an empty drive) you can use to transfer everything off of that system, then back on to the new drive. With the WiiU setup, this will never be an issue.

I say let the developers offer either mandatory or optional installs. Just as long as they make sure if it is mandatory, they state it flat out so that if somebody buys those games, they know full well it will be needed. If it is optional, then let the user decide on what they want to do. I call laziness in the end if the devs use this as an excuse.

I call shenanigans on this articles concern about longer loading times due to Wii U's memory amount. The example game given was Blacklist, however my argument is that it was simply a shoddy port, and this is backed up by proof from Most Wanted U.

And I quote: "Touching on loading times, the Wii U delivers a solid turnaround which holds up to the 360 version when installed to HDD. Put to a practical test, the Emerson Beltway stage takes the 360 and Wii U releases 15 seconds to load for the first time, while the PS3 trails the pack at 22 seconds. Fortunately, once a level is cached to each respective console's memory, the time for retries is reduced significantly to just eight seconds apiece - an ideal situation for Autolog users striving to beat a friend's record time."