March 27, 2010

I think a lot of people are assuming they will get subsidized, but do they really know where the line will be drawn and the extent of the subsidy?

The cutoff level would be an income of four times the federal poverty level. For one person, that’s about $44,000 a year. For a family of four, the comparable figure is about $88,000.

Subsidies would be figured on a sliding scale, with those who make less getting a bigger boost and those nearer the top getting a smaller one.

The formula is pretty complicated. Basically, though, people who make three or four times the poverty level would get enough federal money so that they would not have to pay more than about 10 percent of their income for a decent health insurance package.

So, if you make $88,000 and have a family of 4, you may have to fork out $8,800 a year ($733 a month).

People who make less would have to pay a smaller slice of their income for coverage. For instance, individuals who make about $14,000, and four-person families with incomes of about $29,000, would not have to pay more than 3 to 4 percent of their incomes for insurance.

If you make only $29,000 and have a family of 4, you are already on a terribly tight budget, and yet you will be required, perhaps, to spend $1,160 a year. I'd really like to see a chart that shows how much people are going to need to pay.

The federal subsidy would go straight to the insurer. It would look like a discount on the policy to the customer.

I think there's going to be a sliding scale of freaking out over the new requirements. Just understanding them and absorbing what is required will be stressful. And then you have to come up with the money, or face the penalty:

If you ignore this mandate and don’t get health insurance, you’ll have to pay a tax penalty to the federal government, beginning in 2014. This fine starts fairly small, but by the time it is fully phased in, in 2016, it is substantial.

An insurance-less person would have to pony up whichever is greater: $695 for each uninsured family member, up to a maximum of $2,085; or 2.5 percent of household income.

There are exceptions. Certain people with religious objections would not have to get health insurance. Nor would American Indians, illegal immigrants, or people in prison.

Well, you could always join the right religion.

Sorry, but I can't help thinking that millions of people are going to freak out.

Smart people know that the Senate included language in the bill preventing the IRS from being able to collect penalties from people who refuse to participate in the shell game.

The IRS can levy a fine on you if you are a Jew (but not if you are a Muslim) but the fine will not grow with interest (like all other non-paid IRS obligations are) and the IRS cannot use its lien powers to collect the "fine."

So, smart people just won't buy insurance at all until they need it.

The small fine for not playing along with the charade isn't meaningful, can't be collected, and represents an interest-free loan from the government. Why wouldn't smart people take this loan? Tomorrow's dollars will be inflated and worth less to pay the fine with later if that ever becomes necessary.

If you ever get sick, the law now says that you can purchase insurance from any company and they have to take you even with your pre-existing condition and they cannot charge you extra because you are already sick.

So, smart people will do exactly that.

Lots of dumbass people in some communities will wait in line at government offices to receive their "subsidy."

"Certain people with religious objections would not have to get health insurance."

That's quite disingenuous phrasing, isn't it? Which "certain people" are not to be taxed?

The correct answer is: Muslims.

Muslims are not required to purchase any form of insurance because it is against their faith. (There are other faiths such as Amish who also won't be required to pay, but these are very small in number).

So, only Jews (and Christians) will be forced to pay "The Jew Tax" known as "Health Care Reform."

Barack Hussein Obama hates the Jews and now he has found a way to tax them just because they are Jews. That Christians are collateral damage is unfortunate, but make no mistake about it, Barack Obama hates the Jews.

As with anything Democrat Party-related you have to pay careful attention to what they do and ignore what they say. They act like they hate Israel and the Jews. And health care reform is just part of the proof.

They tried to get around the constitutional problem by pretending this is a tax function with the IRS as the enforcer; but no one is exempted from taxes due to religion or Native American status or incarceration.

The "subsidies" are a complete scam, and will not come close to making up the difference between our existing catastrophic coverage and what's required under this particular scheme.

As it is, our premium jumped 28% this year as the direct result of a new federal mandate that medical insurance cover both in-patient and out-patient "mental health services," along with addiction spas and the like.

With the latest government intervention requiring guaranteed issue (ignore pre-existing conditions) our premium will soon vault to the level prevailing for the same policy in an adjacent state which already has a guaranteed issue mandate. Oops, another 50% on top of what is now 128%.

Then they remove insurance companies' ability to formulate a premium based on lifestyle -- smoking, blood pressure, height-appropriate weight, and so on. The non-smoker policy alone is 40% cheaper than for smokers, so on the basis of 25% smoking population, there's another 8% on top of 128+64=192%-->207% of last year's premium.

The primary purpose of this legislation is to make private insurance premiums completely untenable.

I know, right? If the Social Security lockbox is full of IOU's from all the raiding of those collected monies, what is stopping that from happening with the dhimmi tax?

People think they have an individual account with a balance, like a bank account, with their Social Security contributions--and they don't.

What if we let the feds collect the dhimmi tax for four years, and when the programs roll out, four years hence, there's no money accumulated? It's all been spent elsewhere on Dhimmicrat vote buying stimulus crap?

These non-profits are set up for the primary purpose of receiving government grants, and they kick back a portion to Democrat Party political candidates by making campaign contributions. This is the method by which the Democrat Party receives the majority of its funding

Republicans don't have anywhere near this sort of a money laundering operation. It's sad, really, that Republicans can't figure out how Democrats are using the government to fund their political operation.

They're unable to put the pieces together to realize this is all just a huge corrupt RICO organized crime syndicate.

This has always been a lot of smoke and mirrors. As I say, the people who think they'll be sitting on the couch the rest of their lives stuffing HoHos in their mouths and get cared for for free will be in for a rude awakening when they see how FICA goes up, even for them; not to mention when the death panels (Einsatzgruppen?) swing into action.

kentuckyhusseinliz said...

I love it! Don't forget to visit the grave of Issa bin Maryam when you hit Mecca (bring your copy of Sir Richard with you. They'll just love it).

Ann, I am not sure where the CSM found the figures they are using, according to this letter to Evan Bayh from the CBOhttp://www.cbo.gov/ftpdocs/107xx/doc10781/11-30-Premiums.pdf (see page 29) premiums will be much higher.

I am not sure what this will do to us financially or why the Democrats think we can suddenly pay 19% of our income on health insurance. While we make about 95K, and that may seem like a lot to some people, it doesn't go far with three kids in our area.

Here’s a quick guesstimate breakdown of monthly expenses:

29% federal, state local taxes and SS payments ($2300/mo this is probably too low, and will certainly increase)

25% mortgage, insurance and property taxes ($1950/mo, lower than most people at our income level)

This adds up to 111%, and wipes out the ability for us to save or send our kids to college. We don't have government or union jobs so we don't have retirement plans. Because my husband is self-employed our income has decreased due to the economy and we spent our nest egg starting the business, which has taken longer to get going due to economic factors. I always thought we’d get through this with hard work and determination, but this health bill has pulled the rug out from us. I really don't know what we are supposed to do.

I'd sell the house but everyone knows what the housing market looks like. We had always planned to send the kids to college, but now they will take big government loans so the government will get a piece of that too.

This is depressing, many people like us will be very upset when they find out healthcare isn't "free".

The Joint Committee on Taxation says that the mandate is basically unenforceable:

The penalty applies to any period the individual does not maintain minimum essential coverage and is determined monthly. The penalty is assessed through the Code and accounted for as an additional amount of Federal tax owed. However, it is not subject to the enforcement provisions of subtitle F of the Code. The use of liens and seizures otherwise authorized for collection of taxes does not apply to the collection of this penalty. Non-compliance with the personal responsibility requirement to have health coverage is not subject to criminal or civil penalties under the Code and interest does not accrue for failure to pay such assessments in a timely manner.

From page 33 of http://www.jct.gov/publications.html?func=startdown&id=3673

The subsidy really only applies if you aren't offered insurance from your employer. The differences are so large that under this plan, you DO NOT want your employer to offer you health insurance. It's cheaper for your boss to pay the government the $2000 fine and let you buy insurance on your own. Employees would save lots of money doing this also. And, as many people have said, you don't even want to have health insurance unless you are sick.

In four years time people will be leaving jobs because they offer health insurance.

The assumption in Islam is that everyone is born a Moslem; those who don't practice have strayed outside the faith, hence the term, infidel. So, no, like those old age insurance policies on some cable channels, you can't be turned down.

When I graduated from college and got my first job in the mid-90s, I started at $24,000 a year. I didn't have health insurance because I couldn't afford it. It looks like this plan would have required me to pay around $100/month. I didn't HAVE $100/month back then. I'd have had to pay the $750 yearly fine instead. Probably by putting it on a credit card.

Like Social Security and Medicare, this plan taxes the less fortunate to pay for the benefits of the better-off.

Ok - let's get some documentation on this so we're not running around like a bunch of WorldNetDaily readers.

What is the exact language in the bill about religious exclusions from the mandate? Does it specifically say Amish and Christian Scientists? Does anyone know? If it in fact does include Muslims as well that is a HUGE story. Let's make sure we have it right before we go freeper.

Nobody has a clue how this is all going to work. Including the morons who wrote the trainwreck legislation. So is my 22 year old daughter back on my health insurance? How about my vision and dental? I guess I should call the WH and see if anyone knows.

A friend told me today that his daughter, a general practice doctor in downtown Denver, had 20+ plus people show up at her office day before yesterday. No appointments, and more than half had never been patients of hers before. Somehow the word had gotten out that free health care was already in effect, and this was the place to go. They had a lot of trouble persuading the people that nothing had changed.

Speaking of subsidies, surely I can't be the only one pissed that people who ran out and got in over their heads on loans AND FUCKING KNEW IT (and bragged about it) are now getting even more bailouts from the government.

No, you are not the only one. My partner and I are financially frugal types which is the only reason why, despite both of us being unemployed, we are not freaking out over money - yet.

We don't have kids and don't plan to - thus no heirs/dependents. Our plan is to rack up the debt as we get older and die with a shitload of unpaid debt. Timing will be crucial, but it will be one big "fuck you" from beyond the grave if carried out wisely.

The bill will impoverish the middle-class. Whatever they had left after the crash in 2008, or managed to build up again since then, will be taken through taxes, fees, premiums or fines. It is a blatant redistribution of wealth.

The wealthy will be able to swallow the new fees and taxes. The middle-classses (lower & upper) will be hit the worst.

Yeah, I think some people are going to be upset. But they are also going to be made more dependent on the the govt.

Obama promised the moon with this bill. When people realize it is not full of free cheese, O and the Dems will have some 'splaining to do.

(5) EXEMPTIONS FROM INDIVIDUAL RESPONSIBILITY REQUIREMENTS- In the case of an individual who is seeking an exemption certificate under section 1311(d)(4)(H) from any requirement or penalty imposed by section 5000A, the following information:

(A) In the case of an individual seeking exemption based on the individual’s status as a member of an exempt religious sect or division, as a member of a health care sharing ministry, as an Indian, or as an individual eligible for a hardship exemption, such information as the Secretary shall prescribe.

Section 5000a is the section that lays out the mandate.

Some more language directly from that section on religion:

‘(2) RELIGIOUS EXEMPTIONS-

‘(A) RELIGIOUS CONSCIENCE EXEMPTION- Such term shall not include any individual for any month if such individual has in effect an exemption under section 1311(d)(4)(H) of the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act which certifies that such individual is a member of a recognized religious sect or division thereof described in section 1402(g)(1) and an adherent of established tenets or teachings of such sect or division as described in such section.

So - here's one shocking thing - there isn't a Sec. 1402 G. It's not in the bill.

(H) subject to section 1411, grant a certification attesting that, for purposes of the individual responsibility penalty under section 5000A of the Internal Revenue Code of 1986, an individual is exempt from the individual requirement or from the penalty imposed by such section because--

(i) there is no affordable qualified health plan available through the Exchange, or the individual’s employer, covering the individual; or

(ii) the individual meets the requirements for any other such exemption from the individual responsibility requirement or penalty;

In response to who will get subsidized under the new health care reform Althouse wrote - "Sorry, but I can't help thinking that millions of people are going to freak out."

In an earlier post she referred to the following:

"In Switzerland, where they spend only 11% of GDP on health care, their out-of-pocket expenses equal about 31% of total spending. The difference between 12% and 31% is huge. Once people begin spending substantial sums from their own pockets, they become willing to shop around. Ordinary market incentives begin to operate. A good bill would have encouraged that."

If given the choice, would more people freak out under the Dems plan or under under Economics Nobelist Gary Becker's plan?

It's sad that the young innocents who put Obama in power will be those penalized. Yes, starting out $100 is a lot of money!

Oh, I don't care if people dumb enough to have voted for Obama get bankrupted. I feel sorry for the young folks who are like I was -- i.e., not looking for a handout from the government, just trying to survive on their own.

Knowing how federal law like this gets more and more labyrinthine (in honor of Ann and Meads crossing the Mississippi) as time goes on, how messy do you think a 3000 page law will be in 10 years. Like the tax code, it will be entirely unknowable, if it isn't already. I mean, I know Joe Biden understands it, but us lesser minds are shit out of luck.

Basically, though, people who make three or four times the poverty level would get enough federal money so that they would not have to pay more than about 10 percent of their income for a decent health insurance package.

So if I'm doing the math right, my medical insurance premium is about to double. (The cost to me will double, that is. Plus cost of an additional "subsidy", indirectly paid via taxes.) Joy.