What I find most interesting is that BLM is able to take such an accurate count. It makes me wonder about all the tales I've heard about how BMORG has been lying about the population count for years. I guess they couldn't have under padded the numbers if BLM can take such an accurate count as to be able to put them on probation.

JKhttp://www.mudskippercafe.comWhen I was a kid I used to pray every night for a new bicycle.Then I realized that the Lord doesn't work that way so I stole one and asked Him to forgive me

For the BLM to be taking action against us, they must have their own bean counting system. If so, are they counting the folks leaving the event and then returning? Are they accurately distinguishing regular burners from vendors, LEOs, public officials, etc...? Or, did they pull this out of their ass, as an excuse to jack up our permit fees? As far as the impact on the environment...How quickly we forget what the playa looked like BEFORE Burning Man! It was essentially Empire/Gerlach's dumping ground. How, in recent years..the clean up efforts by Burning Man volunteers, have inspired the BLM to place "OUR" standards on all other groups that use the playa.

jkisha wrote:What I find most interesting is that BLM is able to take such an accurate count. It makes me wonder about all the tales I've heard about how BMORG has been lying about the population count for years. I guess they couldn't have under padded the numbers if BLM can take such an accurate count as to be able to put them on probation.

Yeah, the two different counts that the llc supposedly do (one for BLM, one for...Santa Claus?) was one of the things I wasn't saying. And then the BLM does its own count. Does anyone else remember the arguments about the NPS counts of demonstrators on the Mall in Washington D.C.? I don't even know if they are two counts. Or if it's an on-going procedure. I wonder about those sorts of rumors that spread through the burn. I pretty much don't repeat them, because I have no idea if they are true, or if they are a way for some burners to reclaim some sort of mental space around the idea of the gov'ment's being involved in any way with the burn, or if my repeating it, especially in a space like eplaya where it's there forever, or at least until the llc decides to, or is forced to pull the plug... I just don't want to be involved in that.

I would say that if the BLM is saying that there were too many people, then they should have a counting method that they are solidly behind. Of course, they could be fools.

The Lady with a Lamprey

"The powerful are exploiting people, art and ideas, and this leads to us plebes debating how to best ration ice.Man, no wonder they always win....." Lonesomebri

The 2011 permit was a special 1-year permit with terms stating that the population was not to exceed 50,000--not the 6% growth allowance of the previous 5-year permit. However, from the population growth graph, it looks like 2011's population had grown as if the 6% growth allowance were extended to 2011. BMOrg may have been treating the permit as "business as usual"--not something based on the actual wording of the 1-year permit that stated that the population has a maximum of 50,000. The 50,000 cap on 2011 should have resulted in a recorded population that looked much like the resulting population of 2010, not 2,500 more people.

"The essence of tyranny is not iron law. It is capricious law." -- Christopher Hitchens

Black Rock City, LLC (BRC) is required to manage its advance ticket sales and on-site ticket sales in such a manner that the safety infrastructural resources of the event, which are designed to handle an average of 50,000 participants per day for the eight-day event, are not overtaxed, and that NEPA concerns from the 2006 Environmental Assessment are not compromised. If during the event it appears that the peak population is likely to exceed BRC’s ability to provide adequate infrastructural resources, then BRC will promptly notify BLM of the projected event population and provide detailed contingency plans for how to handle the additional participants. BRC shall provide the Bureau of Land Management (BLM) with the number of participants within the event site at noon each day according to an agreed upon reporting standard with BLM during the period of site occupancy (August 8th through September 19th). For historical purposes and press inquiries, BRC shall also provide BLM with the recorded peak population for the entire event. BLM can request population data any time during the event. BRC shall also provide BLM with detailed information of the number of staff and participants on the event site for the August 8th through September 19th period within 60 days after the event. This information shall include daily counts for the non-event period.

No monitors, just Perimeter getting tall guard towers at every angle of BRC, everyone has to wear something with stripes & to enter BRC we all pass through Gate under a sign that says "Feuer macht frei".

It's a camping trip in the desert, not the redemption of the fallen world - Cryptofishist

No monitors, just Perimeter getting tall guard towers at every angle of BRC, everyone has to wear something with stripes & to enter BRC we all pass through Gate under a sign that says "Feuer macht frei".

Please leave your shoes outside the BDC shower.

"Burning Man ruined my life as I knew it, and I have never been happier." -mgb327

I had an encounter with the "counters" last year - they were literally walking around the city and counting the people/camps, road by road. I remember laughing that there is no way for such a counting method to be anywhere near accurate. I asked them what they were doing and was told they were counting the population. These people were hot and tired and not interesting enough to have been anything but what they said they were, so no - it wasn't performance art.

Mojojita wrote:I had an encounter with the "counters" last year - they were literally walking around the city and counting the people/camps, road by road. I remember laughing that there is no way for such a counting method to be anywhere near accurate. I asked them what they were doing and was told they were counting the population. These people were hot and tired and not interesting enough to have been anything but what they said they were, so no - it wasn't performance art.

Whaaaaaaat? You're right, that's hilarious. A small camp--if they're home, & there's a good chance they won't be--might be accurate, unless they're . . . annoyed, suspicious, anti-authority, or high. A larger camp, accustomed to a little bureaucracy, might try and fail, even if cooperative--having lost a dozen folks from final roster to opening day, or absorbing a few strangers. And only a few people in camp actually know close to the real answer, and when asked nosy questions, may give a horrified look & holler "Are you from Placement?!" and refuse to come down from their scaffolding . . . There aren't even always obvious visual physical boundaries where one camp ends and another begins. Surely a few camps were counted twice when two people from the same meandering village were asked.

. . . Now I'm thinking of this scene between Tim Meadows (the census taker) and Christopher Walken.

"Hi.""Mr. Leonard, I'm with the US Census bureau. We sent you a census form, but you failed to return it.""My mail has piled up like crazy.""Yeah, well . . . I just need to fill out this census form with you.""Great.""Okay, um . . . how many people live in this residence?""Oh boy . . . that's a good question. I'm bad with numbers. Maybe . . . eighty.""Eighty people live in this apartment?""Seems high . . . doesn't it. Not eighty. How bout four? I don't know. I'm so bad at guesstimating.""Well, just take your time and count.""Okay. There's me, my wife, our plants . . . we have some candy bars.""Well, you know . . . we don't count candy bars or plants.""Yeah? Then there's just the two of us. Boy . . . I really overshot it with the eighty."

I did not read the entire thread but I think what might have helped jack up the numbers last year, from what I have heard on the back side, is all the vendors needed to have a ticket. The guy who delivers shit to a bunch of camps, such as gas, propane etc needed to have a ticket last year. Prior years, at the very worst it was an escort in and out. Personally if this is correct and vendors were counted as particpants that is wrong and should be fixed.

No monitors, just Perimeter getting tall guard towers at every angle of BRC, everyone has to wear something with stripes & to enter BRC we all pass through Gate under a sign that says "Feuer macht frei".

Please leave your shoes outside the BDC shower.

Art project: a box of shoes outside the BDC shower. Add more pairs to it each day.

Eric wrote: No monitors, just Perimeter getting tall guard towers at every angle of BRC, everyone has to wear something with stripes & to enter BRC we all pass through Gate under a sign that says "Feuer macht frei".

MyDearFriend wrote:Please leave your shoes outside the BDC shower.

AntiM wrote:Art project: a box of shoes outside the BDC shower. Add more pairs to it each day.

evil, evil woman...

The Lady with a Lamprey

"The powerful are exploiting people, art and ideas, and this leads to us plebes debating how to best ration ice.Man, no wonder they always win....." Lonesomebri