Comments on: http://blog.timesunion.com/derosier/1216/1216/
Cartoon commentary on local, state, national and world issues.Sun, 04 Nov 2012 12:42:06 +0000hourly1http://wordpress.org/?v=4.2.2By: iknowtruthisminehttp://blog.timesunion.com/derosier/1216/1216/comment-page-4/#comment-1748
Tue, 20 Jan 2009 14:26:53 +0000http://blogs.timesunion.com/derosier/?p=1216#comment-1748A crutch is a crutch, and the religion crutch is being used to lead Humanity toward extinction, all in their self propelled frenzy to achieve the expected, and in many cases, gleefully anticipated end of the world. Forgive us if we resist such foolishness, and give us credit for correctly labeling those who participate in such foolishness, as themselves being fools.
]]>By: What the heckhttp://blog.timesunion.com/derosier/1216/1216/comment-page-4/#comment-1747
Tue, 20 Jan 2009 13:14:05 +0000http://blogs.timesunion.com/derosier/?p=1216#comment-1747Aaron:

You talk about people ridiculing IKTTIM’s aggressive atheism, but it’s okay for him to call people morons and similar phrases for having a belief system?

IKTTIM:

Sometimes it’s not just about faith, sometimes it’s about hope.

And while horrible things are often done in the name of religion, horrible things are more often done in the name of Greed, Money, and Power, and passed off as “religion”. Kind of like in the Middle eastern nations, where the regular people are poor and are used as sacrifices to commit terrorist acts, by providing them three meals a day and brainwashing them, while the upper echelons of those countries, live well, in luxury, enjoying the fruits. Do you really believe that it is about religion? or is it about the ones in power, keeping the power and the money? That’s not religion, that’s greed…no religious belief necessary.

]]>By: johnhttp://blog.timesunion.com/derosier/1216/1216/comment-page-4/#comment-1746
Mon, 19 Jan 2009 23:57:29 +0000http://blogs.timesunion.com/derosier/?p=1216#comment-1746#93 As I said in my original post, the issue is not whether one can prove God exists or not. For me that is a closed issue: you cannot. That means the important issue is whether or not faith is compatible with reason: Is it irrational to believe in God? You’ll note I did not attempt to defend an answer to this question as much as I merely pointed out that it is a question that I think has priority over the question of whether or not God’s existence can be proven. For what it is worth, I will add that this is also a question that is very much alive and well in theology and the philosophy of religion (See for example Alvin Plantinga’s development of “reformed epistemology”). You very clearly and unabashedly answer the question in the affirmative. Many people would agree with you completely and often just as forcefully. At best, I think your characterization of faith (provided in the penultimate sentence of that part of your comment that is addressed to me) is uncharitable. At worst it is simply ignorant.
-js
]]>By: iknowtruthisminehttp://blog.timesunion.com/derosier/1216/1216/comment-page-4/#comment-1745
Mon, 19 Jan 2009 23:44:54 +0000http://blogs.timesunion.com/derosier/?p=1216#comment-1745jerry – It seems that because there are people out here who are not intimidated by delusional superstitions, it really gets your goat. Atheists have the right to express what they believe and as long as those who believe in ghosts, goblins, witches and gods, persist in prothelitizing and in some cases try to use the coercive power of the state to shove those beliefs (unconstitutionally) down every one’s throat, you will have to put up with us. I feel, that it is more of a personal thing with you, that has more to do with my being an effective representative of politics that stands in opposition to your decidedly ultra-right-wing bent, in which case you are just dishonestly trying to use the emotional, supposedly sacred, nature of the silliness of religion to do what you are incapable of doing from a political perspective.
]]>By: jerryhttp://blog.timesunion.com/derosier/1216/1216/comment-page-4/#comment-1744
Mon, 19 Jan 2009 22:06:30 +0000http://blogs.timesunion.com/derosier/?p=1216#comment-1744Aaron Burr

Please read the latest post from iktim.

“Faith is what it is, the excuse to believe that which you know can’t possibly be true, because it is ridiculous. It is the excuse for ignorance, plain and simple.”

“Religion is a rotting albatross hanging around our necks as a punishment for abrogating our responsibility to use our highly evolved brains for more than a storage bin for what has become rubbish.”

Intolerance Mr. Burr ??? Ridicule ???? His writings personify the very things you accuse others of directing at him.

I can understand why and how this comes from iktim. I strongly suspect that all of his puppies are not barking (there’s a couple of stillborns in that litter … NO DOUBT ABOUT IT).

Your defense of his paranoia is what I can’t understand. You might want to choose your alliances more carefully or you too may find yourself thought of in a similar manner. I am not alone in my opinion of this man and even a casual reading of his numerous posts would cause any reasonable person to at least wonder what horrible things must have happened to this guy to make him so warped and sick.

]]>By: iknowtruthisminehttp://blog.timesunion.com/derosier/1216/1216/comment-page-4/#comment-1743
Wed, 14 Jan 2009 20:19:22 +0000http://blogs.timesunion.com/derosier/?p=1216#comment-1743john – The concept of “faith” was the focal point in my search for truth when I began to think outside the religion box. Whenever the search for god hit the stone wall of no proof, those whom I conversed with always ended throwing up with the word “faith”, as they sat back pleased with themselves for such a clever answer. So dependant were they on this word, that it became the end all of all effort to actually find truth. Faith is what it is, the excuse to believe that which you know can’t possibly be true, because it is ridiculous. It is the excuse for ignorance, plain and simple.

Jerry – Perhaps, as a professed non-believer, you can be content with being silent about what religion is doing to the world, but that is exactly what religion requires of you. They are, in most of the world, no longer able to kill you anymore for the crime of not believing what they believe, so instead, they require that you just keep your mouth shut and let them get on with the business of screwing up the world. It wouldn’t be so bad if it weren’t for the fact that religions are having a contest to out-breed each other (obvious overpopulation problem), but now religions are attempting to establish their own states, either with, or about to obtain nuclear weapons. I for one do not trust any organization that has “chosen people” delusions, possession of “absolute truth” delusions, or manifest destiny delusions when in the end, they will undoubtedly fall back on their “holy” book outlined end time delusions, to finish off Humanity, fulfilling an orgy of orgasmic prophesy, utilizing the more horrible aspects of a technology that should never fall into delusional hands. Perhaps you wish to leave your fate in such unstable hands, but I do not. The only way to mute the negative affect that religion is exerting is to diminish the strength of the institution, and because of the strong dependence of the individual on this delusional and very comfortable crutch, it is necessary to make them think. Unfortunately, religion is about NOT thinking, but accepting the dogma as laid out for them. I may infuriate the believer, I may inspire hatred toward me by the believer, I may inspire organized attack from the believer, but I am saying things that have to be said and even if they are not overtly receptive, they are at least hearing the message. When I first saw Madylin Murray O’Hair on the very first “Donahue Show”, I seethed with hatred at what she was saying, but I never forgot what she said. Her words, at first denied, rolled around in my head until I had no choice but to examine them in a rational way. If there is one thing this sorry world needs, is to think in a rational way. Religion is a rotting albatross hanging around our necks as a punishment for abrogating our responsibility to use our highly evolved brains for more than a storage bin for what has become rubbish. You may not like the messenger, but the message is valid.

I am also a non believer. My thoughts about God are best summed up by a George Carlin routine called “The Great Ghost in the Sky”.

That said, I ask that you do not assume the reaction to the comments made by iktim about God and people of faith is based on hostility or even the result of their insecurity.

In post # 83, Mark talks about the things he sees in the world that cause him to believe in God. He offers us the love, sacrifice and selflessness of Mother Theresa as his proof. I do not share his faith but I’ll bet you a shiny new dime that Marks’ beliefs make him a better person. If belief in a higher power and faith in God help Mark (and billions of others) to live their lives, who am I to tell them different.

And yet Mark’s thoughtful post is met with a response from iktim that includes descriptive terms like “sickening”, “theo-babble” “fairy-tales” and “God is the end result of a failed search for truth by a very shallow mind”. The post just before Mark’s contains a reference
where belief in God is compared to a “colossal pile of crap”.

These are just a few examples and are taken only from this thread. There are literally hundreds of other examples here on the TU site where iktim has used similar and even more derogatory and disparaging terms to refer to people of faith and their beliefs.

While I can understand your call to have respect for contrary opinions, the intolerance and ridicule you mention originates with iktim.

Perhaps you might consider that before you assume that the replies to his posts are inspired by hostility or insecurity.

1)The problem of evil, the puzzle of how an omnipotent, omniscient, omnibenvolent god can allow the existence of evil is something theologians and philosophers have discussed for millenia. Indeed, one of the first attmepts to address this problem can be found in the Book of Job. Early church Father’s such as Augustine and Irenaeus have worked out elaborate responses to the problem of evil. The former has been very influential in Western Christianity, the latter within Orthodox Christianity. Boethius addresses a version of it in the “Consolation of Philosophy”, Rabbi David Wolpe takes it up in some of his writings and has debated Chistopher Hitchens on this topic (and others), and John Hick, a modern day philosopher of religion, develops a response in his book “Evil and the God of Love”.

Why mention all of this? Because it ought to be pointed out that religious traditions generally, and the Christian tradition specifically, are well aware of the problem of evil and they possess strong intellectual traditions that have produced wonderful theodicies to explain the problem. I do not mention this because I think these theodicies satisfactorily solve the problem of evil (there is a reason, afterall, that the problem is some 2000 plus years old). Rather, I mention it because if you take the time to read these theologians/philosophers you will find their arguments are cogent; this is not to say they are beyond reproach, but I do mean to say that (as with any good argument) they ought to be responded to rather than dismissed out of hand as part of a larger system of myth and superstition.

2) No matter how many good acts Mother Teresea may have done (or anyone else for that matter) it does not prove God exists, it does not even imply that God exists.

3) The fact that Mother Teresa had moments of doubt about her faith means absolutely nothing and proves absolutely nothing. Jesus told Peter his faith would be shaken. I think if you asked any person who claims to have faith they can share with you a similar story of conflict. What this proves of course pace atheists, is that most believers are not mere drones who listen to what they are told and respond as they are told. Rather, most people ask questions, struggle with answers, have disagreements with their religion, moments of doubt, sometimes enough doubt to make them nonbelievers, other times their faith is reinforced because of the struggle. Did you know the word “Israel” means “to struggle with God.” But again, none of this means anything in terms of the existence or nonexistence of God.

4) There is no logical argument that can prove the existence of God, that is just the way it is. There have been some excellent attempts to do so, such as Anselm’s ontological argument (which for a time convinced Bertrand Russell, one of the 20th centuries greatest mathematicians/logicians -but only for a time). This should not be too upsetting or surprising to believers. Afterall it is why faith is so important to religion, precisely because God’s existence remains beyond our logical argumentation. The real issue, as far as I am concerned, is not whether we can prove the existence of God, but whether it is rational or not to have faith.

5) The problem of evil does not, as a matter of logic, prove the nonexistence of God. This does not mean the problem of evil is not a serious challenge to the claims of classical christianity, it is, but that just brings us back to point one above.
-js

]]>By: iknowtruthisminehttp://blog.timesunion.com/derosier/1216/1216/comment-page-3/#comment-1740
Sun, 11 Jan 2009 03:14:42 +0000http://blogs.timesunion.com/derosier/?p=1216#comment-1740Aaron Burr – Indeed, I am familiar with those works as well as many others of like nature. The “believers” are just frustrated because they are unable to offer any credible proof to back up their beliefs and they are also frustrated by the fact that since the secularization of the government, they are no longer able to silence people who point out the fundamental flaws in their beliefs by the tried and proven way they did in the past, by killing us.

Thanks for the leg up, its nice to know the world has more than just their ilk to deal with.

“If you can hold up Mother Teresa as your proof for the existence of a loving god, I can hold Hitler up to prove that it doesn’t exist. Would a loving god ignore the hundreds of millions of prayers for it to stop Hitler before he killed upwards of 50 million people during WWII, or is his intercession only counted when he is called on to make a foul shot during basketball games? You would think that if a god existed, and if it loved us so much, that it could have taken the tiny effort it would have taken to put one lousy little blood clot into one tiny vital spot in Hitler’s body to end, or prevent the abject suffering of so many of his children.”

I think that is the conundrum that even believers experience angst and discomfort over. Aside from homilies like “God is testing us” or “the evil comes from man, not God”, I have never heard any member of the clergy give a satisfactory explanation for why an omniscient, omnipotent supreme being who allegedly controls the minutiae of our lives down to who we sleep with, where, when and how, refuses to intervene in the most monstrous crimes against humanity to stop them. Sure, there are countless anecdotes of “miracles”, remissions from fatal diseases, good fortune, etc., that are ascribed to the power of faith and prayer, and it is possible that not all these outcomes can be explained by conventional scientific means. I can even accept a psychological component that, because believers truly think that good things will happen if they pray hard enough, it gives the person a mindset and a confidence to accomplish something by dint of sheer willpower, similar to the “self-fulfilling prophecy”.

What disturbs me is (with the exception of Mark';s tolerant approach)the intolerance and ridicule that greets IKTTIM’s aggressive atheism. It is an opinion, and as such, it deserves equal respect with contrary opinions. Unfortunately, those who disagree seem so insecure about their firmly held beliefs that they must react with hostility to whomever questions them. The human condition requires questioning everything about existence. It has allowed us to adapt, change, and expand our collective knowledge base. In fact, IKTTIM’s opinions were echoed almost identically by Mark Twain in his essays “Letters From The Earth” and Christopher Hitchens’ recent bestseller “God is Not Great”. I’m sure IKTTIM is familiar with both of these works.