Im still waiting for ONE, just ONE poster to make a serious post and point out the exact plays where Brady cost us the postseason in the Ravens game. Of Course, anybody can play better and the last few years Brady hasnt been perfect and there are lots of factors, mostly "coaching" that has hurt us, but this past game I kept hearing about Brady playing like sh*t, I keep watching the game over and I keep trying to ask, what else could he have done? and I cant find anything, other than some fans wanting him to hop up and down and show emotion in a game where nothing was going right. All his mistakes came WELL after the game was over in theory. Shows how ignorance some of the posters here are and how they will blindly follows someones agenda if they are too lazy to research. Please, someone point out ALL the Plays that were Bradys fault. I saw a bunch of accurate passes that were dropped, fumbles and a defense that couldnt get a redzone stop.

Im still waiting for ONE, just ONE poster to make a serious post and point out the exact plays where Brady cost us the postseason in the Ravens game. Of Course, anybody can play better and the last few years Brady hasnt been perfect and there are lots of factors, mostly "coaching" that has hurt us, but this past game I kept hearing about Brady playing like sh*t, I keep watching the game over and I keep trying to ask, what else could he have done? and I cant find anything, other than some fans wanting him to hop up and down and show emotion in a game where nothing was going right. All his mistakes came WELL after the game was over in theory. Shows how ignorance some of the posters here are and how they will blindly follows someones agenda if they are too lazy to research. Please, someone point out ALL the Plays that were Bradys fault. I saw a bunch of accurate passes that were dropped, fumbles and a defense that couldnt get a redzone stop.

The one 'play' if you will that sticks out for me was at the close of the 1st half when by any measure Brady's clock management was bad. I ask you to take that comment in the context of someone who is a huge Brady fan.

In general, I think the offense was, for some reason, not in sync. Can this be laid at the feet of Brady? Perhaps, perhaps not. I honestly don't know.

I offer the above not to take issue with your post but to respond to it.

Im still waiting for ONE, just ONE poster to make a serious post and point out the exact plays where Brady cost us the postseason in the Ravens game. Of Course, anybody can play better and the last few years Brady hasnt been perfect and there are lots of factors, mostly "coaching" that has hurt us, but this past game I kept hearing about Brady playing like sh*t, I keep watching the game over and I keep trying to ask, what else could he have done? and I cant find anything, other than some fans wanting him to hop up and down and show emotion in a game where nothing was going right. All his mistakes came WELL after the game was over in theory. Shows how ignorance some of the posters here are and how they will blindly follows someones agenda if they are too lazy to research. Please, someone point out ALL the Plays that were Bradys fault. I saw a bunch of accurate passes that were dropped, fumbles and a defense that couldnt get a redzone stop.

The one 'play' if you will that sticks out for me was at the close of the 1st half when by any measure Brady's clock management was bad. I ask you to take that comment in the context of someone who is a huge Brady fan.

In general, I think the offense was, for some reason, not in sync. Can this be laid at the feet of Brady? Perhaps, perhaps not. I honestly don't know.

I offer the above not to take issue with your post but to respond to it.

Great! Thanks for your input, but this one is too easy. BB confirmed after the game it was HIS fault because HE thought they had enough time to clock it and as time wore down, he realized it wouldnt work and he called the timeout. Brady was at the line, waiting but the offense did not get lined up in time. This is another one of those issues that gets put on Brady but if one payed attention to the press conference, BB took the blame. Now is he protecting Brady?? IDK, but those are the words from head coach that we have to go by. The fact that you wanted to respond and only came up with one sais enough for me. It wasnt even a football play, it was a coaching/clock management thing. Now you are just one responder but can you see why so many of us have to "stick up" for Brady when we shouldnt have to. Im tired of people pointing out desperate 4th quarter INT's when the game was out of reach. While the game was in quesiton, Brady did all he could with what he had , which was Zilch once Welker got his clock cleaned and proceeded to drop everything while hearing footsteps. He was the ONLY bright spot early until he TOO realized it wasnt gonna happen. Im not gonan berade him for not being more fiery in the 4th. Years of losing in the postseason due to inbalanced teams will do that to you. A whole season coming to an end in a bad way...He is human. IF BB ever gets the talent he need around him, we may just see the Brady of old again. Until then, this board will be divided by Concerned fans who know football and Trolls who Hate Brady.

Maybe his O-line needs to block better or his receivers need to be better.

Maybe he just needs to be better.

Not saying he's totally to blame.

It's just one element on the whole team's performance in these games. They need to improve all over. Special Teams has been a pet peeve of mine lately. And we've talked about the defensive backfield and lack of pass rush ad nauseum.

I will say this though, just to be fair. If Peyton Manning (also one of the great qb's of our time) throws an int. or gets a safety in one of these games he's immediately labled a "CHOKE ARTIST" by fans on this forum. Only because generally we as Pats fans don't like Manning/Mannings.

Maybe his O-line needs to block better or his receivers need to be better.

Maybe he just needs to be better.

Not saying he's totally to blame.

It's just one element on the whole team's performance in these games. They need to improve all over. Special Teams has been a pet peeve of mine lately. And we've talked about the defensive backfield and lack of pass rush ad nauseum.

I will say this though, just to be fair. If Peyton Manning (also one of the great qb's of our time) throws an int. or gets a safety in one of these games he's immediately labled a "CHOKE ARTIST" by fans on this forum. Only because generally we as Pats fans don't like Manning/Mannings.

You are only speaking for yourself. There are plenty of fans who ACT like they hate Brady and ONE who I know Does. If you can watch the latest playoff game with ALL that went wrong and come away saying Brady has to play better, I believe you dont know football or have an agenda. Not saying Brady cant play better because every player is capable of better play but an intelligent analysis will prove the whole team fell apart around him. Most of these bigs games since 07' the whole team has looked tight, flustered and out of sorts mainly in 10 vs the Jets with Chung calling a fake punt. My point is, I dont get why noone is blaming the Head Coach! I mean its one thing to come up short one year and you fix it, but we continously lose to the same type of teams the same way and Thats coaching, sorry,. Brady is a player who is coached too, No matter how smart he is. he cant make recievers taller, tougher or make their hands better. I also find it funny how people can make the statement "vs good to great defenses" and not realize the context. How can he play the same or WHY should he when the D gets better?? Is he Jesus in Uggs?? The better the D, the harder it will be and you leave him with his favorite weapon woozy, Gronk gone, Hernandez a shell of himself and LLoyd, a slow sideline guy, Ridley fumbling. The D giving up SEVEN on every redzone attempt....Where does Brady fit into this?? BB has been outcoached for a while now and is still getting a pass from 2004!!! Not me! Take away Brady now and lets see how BBs value picks will look. This team would be lucky to win 8 games.

BB, only drafting 10 starters 15% (some of who wouldn't start on a sucky team), out of the most picks over a 6 year period, is not good. Only the bottom feeder RAMs are worse.

FACT and TRUTH. See how that works?

Here is a case where statistics lie. It doesn't take into consideration the quality of the starters that are already on the team. The reason the Rams are considered a bottom feeder is because of their record. Because of that record, they should be looking to replace a large percentage of their starters. The Pats, on the other hand, have the best record in the NFL over that same time period and should not be trying to replace a large percentage of their starters. FACTand TRUTH

The real question about BB's drafting should of course be how many of the teams' actual starters they themselves drafted. If this has been covered on one of the previous pages, I'm sorry. I jumped to the last page to bypass the Brady debate.

But by my count, 14 of 22 projected starters on O and D were drafted by the team, one starter (Connolly) was undrafted, and one spot is uncertain (#2 WR), but could be filled by a draft choice.

By comparison the Ravens, widely regarded as good drafters, also drafted 14 of 22 projected starters. The 49'ers 15 of 22.

Considering that the Pats over the last decade must have had the worst draft position on average, or the least total "draft-value", I really don't see the problem. No, they haven't drafted a WR of note since Branch, and the pass rush from the edges continues to be a problem. Yes.

But they ARE drafting core guys, and doing so with less draft ammo than anybody.

And what they do better than most anybody else is walking away from players who don't work out. I don't think it is a criterium for success to have drafted many starters if those starters don't pan out. Consider the joke that is the starting QB for the Jets. I think a lot of coaches and GMs are afraid to admit to failure, and thus hang on to players too long. Not so with the Pats. If you don't produce you're out.

The real question about BB's drafting should of course be how many of the teams' actual starters they themselves drafted. If this has been covered on one of the previous pages, I'm sorry. I jumped to the last page to bypass the Brady debate.

But by my count, 14 of 22 projected starters on O and D were drafted by the team, one starter (Connolly) was undrafted, and one spot is uncertain (#2 WR), but could be filled by a draft choice.

By comparison the Ravens, widely regarded as good drafters, also drafted 14 of 22 projected starters. The 49'ers 15 of 22.

Considering that the Pats over the last decade must have had the worst draft position on average, or the least total "draft-value", I really don't see the problem. No, they haven't drafted a WR of note since Branch, and the pass rush from the edges continues to be a problem. Yes.

But they ARE drafting core guys, and doing so with less draft ammo than anybody.

And what they do better than most anybody else is walking away from players who don't work out. I don't think it is a criterium for success to have drafted many starters if those starters don't pan out. Consider the joke that is the starting QB for the Jets. I think a lot of coaches and GMs are afraid to admit to failure, and thus hang on to players too long. Not so with the Pats. If you don't produce you're out.

Well said. A point the BB bashers will never concede.

couldnt this also be looked at a as a negative because of the fact you have to cut bait?? IDk, I dont wanna be simple, but is it really a strength. I mean cant the average fan spot out a player who CANT play after watching them play a while?? Analysis is my thing so maybe I underestimate it. The hard part is figuring out who is GOOD BeFORE they play in the NFL. Ok, one year later from Drafting, Butler is getting beat up and down the field. Ok, he S*cks. Cut em! Expert analysis....Ummm, I dont think so. Genius Management?? No, its common sense. Cut someone if they cant play. My gripe would be WHY SO MANY are cut before they end their contracts?? Hmmmmmm

BB, only drafting 10 starters 15% (some of who wouldn't start on a sucky team), out of the most picks over a 6 year period, is not good. Only the bottom feeder RAMs are worse.

FACT and TRUTH. See how that works?

Here is a case where statistics lie. It doesn't take into consideration the quality of the starters that are already on the team. The reason the Rams are considered a bottom feeder is because of their record. Because of that record, they should be looking to replace a large percentage of their starters. The Pats, on the other hand, have the best record in the NFL over that same time period and should not be trying to replace a large percentage of their starters. FACTand TRUTH

I just showed where they had to replace about 30 starters in that period,

Only 10 in the draft? Not good and the 2nd worst record in the league in filling those needs. 06, 07, 08, 09, no viable starters except Mayo, Edelman??? Meriwhether???? Maroney????? Despite an abundance of starter positions open.

Which seems to correlate with the 2nd worst D in the league, in the following years, despite the number of defensive picks.

Also the reason, BB has wasted millions and (more wasted draft picks) on the Fat Alberts, Ocho's Eliss's and Deltha O'neals of the world.

Maybe his O-line needs to block better or his receivers need to be better.

Maybe he just needs to be better.

Not saying he's totally to blame.

It's just one element on the whole team's performance in these games. They need to improve all over. Special Teams has been a pet peeve of mine lately. And we've talked about the defensive backfield and lack of pass rush ad nauseum.

I will say this though, just to be fair. If Peyton Manning (also one of the great qb's of our time) throws an int. or gets a safety in one of these games he's immediately labled a "CHOKE ARTIST" by fans on this forum. Only because generally we as Pats fans don't like Manning/Mannings.

Exactly. I think Brady is better than Peyton with proof to support that opinion, but I am also not going to be a hypocrite with regards to my own QB when he channels bad Gomer in the postseason either.

It makes me a hypocrite, and I am not going to be one like Babe, Pezzy, TripleOG, Hurl, etc.

It's just not going to happen.

Gomer threw a pick 6 and two other INTs at home which is why Denver lost their postseason game last year. It's that simple. Your QB cannot be doing that against anyone in the postseason.

Even in games where Brady throws 1 INT or 2, there are a rash of other decisions he makes in the game that are bad as some of those postseason INTs or WORSE.

Shame on us for being honest, huh, Salcon?

Care to point out "the rash of other decision" that Brady made this past year vs the Ravens(not including the 2 INTs in garbage time) since they did happen right? You popped up right on que now can u answer and tell me how many direct plays Brady messed up by himself that cost us a loss. I bet you cant name 3 valid instances, however I can point out MANY mistakes within that game that werent related to Brady. Its a team game. Brady has never tossed a pick 6 to END a game like Gomer has done countless times. The only one who has made a rash of bad desicsons is B.B. - By contuining to do the same thing year after year and gets beat by inferior coaching due to a predictable, limited offense that masks itsself during the year against inferior opponents. ONce BB gets this D to be Formidable again, things will change. Noone is waiting on Brady as you say Buddy! 28 points(4-4 in the redzone) is NOT a Good defense, let alone Great like Brady has to contend with. Most teams in playoff got their by defense. We are in the postseason year after year due to Bradys brilliance in the reg. season and in the postseason when better D's hold our scoring down, we dont have a complimentary D to keep us in it. You Comprendey El Rusto!?

Maybe his O-line needs to block better or his receivers need to be better.

Maybe he just needs to be better.

Not saying he's totally to blame.

It's just one element on the whole team's performance in these games. They need to improve all over. Special Teams has been a pet peeve of mine lately. And we've talked about the defensive backfield and lack of pass rush ad nauseum.

I will say this though, just to be fair. If Peyton Manning (also one of the great qb's of our time) throws an int. or gets a safety in one of these games he's immediately labled a "CHOKE ARTIST" by fans on this forum. Only because generally we as Pats fans don't like Manning/Mannings.

Exactly. I think Brady is better than Peyton with proof to support that opinion, but I am also not going to be a hypocrite with regards to my own QB when he channels bad Gomer in the postseason either.

It makes me a hypocrite, and I am not going to be one like Babe, Pezzy, TripleOG, Hurl, etc.

It's just not going to happen.

Gomer threw a pick 6 and two other INTs at home which is why Denver lost their postseason game last year. It's that simple. Your QB cannot be doing that against anyone in the postseason.

Even in games where Brady throws 1 INT or 2, there are a rash of other decisions he makes in the game that are bad as some of those postseason INTs or WORSE.

Shame on us for being honest, huh, Salcon?

Actually you are the biggest hypocrite.

We have eyes. Every one could have played better. You sight t/o's but never acknowledge the lack of them on the other side. You dismiss dropped balls and injuries on O and, sympathize if they're on D, and actually BLAME him for those drops, but never sight fumble recoveries never won, You sight 3 & outs(all TB's fault) but the fact that the D produced NONE, is no biggie. You cry when they can't get in the EZ but make excuses for the D that can't make a single f'n stop there. You scream about the lack of scoring in the second half but the FACT that the D is allowing 75% scoring in the same half doesn't matter.

I could go and on and your hypocrisy is off-the charts. ALL THOSE THINGS ALL HAPPENED AND MORE!

You LIE to make his stats worse than they are!!!!!!!!! Why? HATER!

Hell you even mock his clothes, having fun, choice of wives, what he does on vacation, what he drives, who his friends are and the fact that he has a mote.

BB, only drafting 10 starters 15% (some of who wouldn't start on a sucky team), out of the most picks over a 6 year period, is not good. Only the bottom feeder RAMs are worse.

FACT and TRUTH. See how that works?

Here is a case where statistics lie. It doesn't take into consideration the quality of the starters that are already on the team. The reason the Rams are considered a bottom feeder is because of their record. Because of that record, they should be looking to replace a large percentage of their starters. The Pats, on the other hand, have the best record in the NFL over that same time period and should not be trying to replace a large percentage of their starters. FACTand TRUTH

I just showed where they had to replace about 30 starters in that period,

Only 10 in the draft? Not good and the 2nd worst record in the league in filling those needs. 06, 07, 08, 09, no viable starters except Mayo, Edelman??? Meriwhether???? Maroney????? Despite an abundance of starter positions open.

Which seems to correlate with the 2nd worst D in the league, in the following years, despite the number of defensive picks.

Also the reason, BB has wasted millions and (more wasted draft picks) on the Fat Alberts, Ocho's Eliss's and Deltha O'neals of the world.

Bingo!

Dear Dummy,

The Pats were LOADED in 2007. LOADED. Junior Seau joined the team. As did Adalius Thomas.

BB's 2007 draft had nothing to do with why Brady played in subpar fashion leading his preferred shotgun spread in the SB after responding to Burress's smack talk.

Get it?

2008, Brady went down in the shogtun spread rearing back to lob a ball to Moss into triple coverage after about 7 seconds of pass protection.

Even the crappy Chiefs knew how to defend his shotgun spread.

4th rd pick, Jonathan Wilhite in 2008 has nothing to do with anything. Anything. And, BB decided to go to a youth movement after dealing Vrabel and Seymour off.

We weren't winning a SB in 2009. You are a delusional pink helmet if you thought that we were.

In 2010, BB was COACH OF THE YEAR and should have been Executive of the Year with Reese and Caserio, with the team going 14-2. They were very young on D, probably wouldn't have beaten the Packers in the SB, but you're delusional if this isn't impressive.

Then the 2011 draft where he fleeced MIckey Loomis, the lockout, and we are IN the SB in 2011.

What did your QB do with Welkie in the 4th qtr of SB 46?

Case closed. Take your pink helment and go sit down.

PS You keep mocking him for looking under rocks for added players off a lockout where no other team could even dream of doing things like he does. Do you realize how stupid you sound? The guy is looking under eevry rock, scouts are all over the place, he's hitting on UDFAs in nice drafts, coaching up quality players, etc, and you're mocking it.

Lauara Maroney BAILED OUT BRADY's AWFUL 2007 AFC title game with 25 carries and 122 yards, yet you just mocked that draft pick because Maroney wasn't Walter Payton.

You're a joke. Wherever your pink helmet turns, I will counter with a superior premise that blasts your unhealthy Brady man lust into next week.

Yes, the 2007 team was loaded and all but three were replace and a number of those multiple times.. He is mocked because he has not yet replaced that team with actual starters achieved through the DRAFT or FA for that matter.

Replacing 25+ starters with garbage is not my idea of good. It was not until recently that they have replaced a handful. Four years of no starters in poor in anyone's eyes, except if you only have eyes for BeeBee.

BB, only drafting 10 starters 15% (some of who wouldn't start on a sucky team), out of the most picks over a 6 year period, is not good. Only the bottom feeder RAMs are worse.

FACT and TRUTH. See how that works?

Here is a case where statistics lie. It doesn't take into consideration the quality of the starters that are already on the team. The reason the Rams are considered a bottom feeder is because of their record. Because of that record, they should be looking to replace a large percentage of their starters. The Pats, on the other hand, have the best record in the NFL over that same time period and should not be trying to replace a large percentage of their starters. FACTand TRUTH

I just showed where they had to replace about 30 starters in that period,

Only 10 in the draft? Not good and the 2nd worst record in the league in filling those needs. 06, 07, 08, 09, no viable starters except Mayo, Edelman??? Meriwhether???? Maroney????? Despite an abundance of starter positions open.

Which seems to correlate with the 2nd worst D in the league, in the following years, despite the number of defensive picks.

Also the reason, BB has wasted millions and (more wasted draft picks) on the Fat Alberts, Ocho's Eliss's and Deltha O'neals of the world.

Bingo!

Dear Dummy,

The Pats were LOADED in 2007. LOADED. Junior Seau joined the team. As did Adalius Thomas.

BB's 2007 draft had nothing to do with why Brady played in subpar fashion leading his preferred shotgun spread in the SB after responding to Burress's smack talk.

Get it?

2008, Brady went down in the shogtun spread rearing back to lob a ball to Moss into triple coverage after about 7 seconds of pass protection.

Even the crappy Chiefs knew how to defend his shotgun spread.

4th rd pick, Jonathan Wilhite in 2008 has nothing to do with anything. Anything. And, BB decided to go to a youth movement after dealing Vrabel and Seymour off.

We weren't winning a SB in 2009. You are a delusional pink helmet if you thought that we were.

In 2010, BB was COACH OF THE YEAR and should have been Executive of the Year with Reese and Caserio, with the team going 14-2. They were very young on D, probably wouldn't have beaten the Packers in the SB, but you're delusional if this isn't impressive.

Then the 2011 draft where he fleeced MIckey Loomis, the lockout, and we are IN the SB in 2011.

What did your QB do with Welkie in the 4th qtr of SB 46?

Case closed. Take your pink helment and go sit down.

PS You keep mocking him for looking under rocks for added players off a lockout where no other team could even dream of doing things like he does. Do you realize how stupid you sound? The guy is looking under eevry rock, scouts are all over the place, he's hitting on UDFAs in nice drafts, coaching up quality players, etc, and you're mocking it.

Lauara Maroney BAILED OUT BRADY's AWFUL 2007 AFC title game with 25 carries and 122 yards, yet you just mocked that draft pick because Maroney wasn't Walter Payton.

You're a joke. Wherever your pink helmet turns, I will counter with a superior premise that blasts your unhealthy Brady man lust into next week.

Yes, the 2007 team was loaded and all but three were replace and a number of those multiple times.. He is mocked because he has not yet replaced that team with actual starters achieved through the DRAFT or FA for that matter.

Replacing 25+ starters with garbage is not my idea of good. It was not until recently that they have replaced a handful. Four years of no starters in poor in anyone's eyes, except if you only have eyes for BeeBee.

This is football, not musical chairs.

Umm, yes, he has. 2010-2012 drafts and any complementary FA move in 2010 or 2011 absolutely has been the base to rebuild.

You're an idiot. You can't go you and buy the best FA in 2009 and 2010 into an unknown CBA landscape!

Get it through your thick skull. The Jets did that and what did it do for them?! Nothing! They have a completely decimated roster, have an overrated pipleine that will be pimped as the next big thing, but they won't make the playoffs for the next 2-3 years!

BB loaded up into the 2010 and 2012 drafts because he liked the drafts and he hit! He hit! Big time! HE even hit in 2011!

2009s draft was actually pretty good, it's just that it seems like every player has had injury problems which affected their development. It's not like Pryor wasn't looking good or Chung's very good 2011 year or Vollmer. Edelman has also helped.

BB drafts and uses FA based on the quality or market of each. 2007, he didn't like the draft, 2008's was the weakest of the decade and he still got a nice 1st rd pick, MAtthew Slater has helped our team from Rd 5 and BJGE was an UDFA. You act like he got nothing in weaker drafts, which is false!

What does any of that have to do with Brady throwing INTs on 1st downs with leads??! Those are decisions that have nothing to do with any draft miss in the middle rounds! Nothing!

You can't rebuid a team overnight within one season. Or even two, for that matter.

Your childish views and analysis is an utter joke for an adult. A joke.

You call Merriwhether, chung, maroney, ect, ect, ect, part of a good core? LMAO@U

What does beebees bad drafting have to do with TB throwing a pick? Why are we mentioning TB when this is a post about drafting.

There is a correlation, but not what you think. Bad drafting, bad players, cause picks.

4 years of 4 bust starters, sucks. 10 starters in 6 years with the most amount of picks, sucks. The constant blowing up of the D, sucks. The mistakes made in not retaining talent sucks. FA busts have killed the team in draft picks and wasted $$$$$(cap) and that sux.

Drafting 20 starters( in the same time with less picks) like some of the other upper echelon teams, would eliminate the need for those FA busts and a lot of those picks, as there would be better players who would be CAPABLE of doing their jobs.

While other teams have improved with the draft, BB is STILL picking up 36 yr old receivers and DB's and injury prone players for cheap, hoping they can make it through a season to fill glaring HOLES that the 10 starters he drafted in 6 years with 66 picks, don't begin to fill!

And that isn't even counting ST aces like Slater or UDFAs like Arrington or Lovie or Wendell or anyone that BB drafted that started for a bit and are no longer with the team.

Seriously dude. Take a chill pill. No one outside of insane people on this board think that BB is the horrible GM you make him out to be. Do you think we've had the #1 offense in the NFL since 2007 because TB suddenly got 100x better or the personnel improved? Yeah we know the defense has been the worst in the NFL for 6 years (except it hasn't and you are just insane), but you need to pull your head out of your a ss and smell the coffee. Your BB bashing is just as bad as Rusty's Brady bashing.

Stop saying that, dude. I support my premise with facts and realities, with stats.

No. You support your "criticism" with conjecture based on some one-off quote from an article that I've never seen about Brady liking the shotgun. You then extrapolate it far beyond its original context to create a narrative where Brady puts his own preferences over the team's performance with no accountability to his coach. Sorry I just don't buy it.