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Pokabu,Mamepato, and Mijumaru as he said, "nothing to write home about."

They need some experience under their belts, to learn some moves, and hopefully evolve.

Thank you.

Originally Posted by Elekible-Kid

I agree that at least to me, Iris and Dento are extremely enjoyable and the best travel companions, they have great tv-chemistry and really add to the entertainment factor.

Their chemistry rocks. It's possible that I could see them have an episode that didn't have Satoshi in it (well, that's not going to happen, but I think it would be possible)

Originally Posted by Platinum fan.

See Ash grow? This is his 5th region! If he hasn't grown enough....let me stop that. Shooti has two badges that's fine, it's good even. Yet Ash can't move as fast as Shooti? I'm not trying to hate on Ash (Because I don't hate him) but I really can't take him seriously. If this is going to be like Paul, where Shooti is ahead of him and beats him every time before the league then that's just sad. Even if there new Pokemon, Ash should be teaching his Pokemon some of the tricks he's picked up from his old Pokemon. Like I said he's had these element types before but you wouldn't know it. No comment on Pikachu, even with the downgrade it should be better then that. They should have made this rivalry different. Trying making it even for once. Shooti beat Ash when they first met, then Ash beat Shooti in there next, just to keep it fresh and new. This feels like a poor attempt of last region's rivalry. That's all I'm saying. Ash should train his Pokemon more before getting into battle, especially against kids who just get there Pokemon but are better at being trainer's then him. Your right, Iris and Dento have good chemistry. I want to see more of them and less of Ash and Shooti to be honest.

Look, it's not like I wanted him to lose or anything, but it's just not enough at this point. Now, I do think that Satoshi losing every battle until the League is more than well played out, but I think we need to give the rivalry more time before declaring it worse than the last guy's. I am mainly chalking this up to my belief that the writers may or may not be actually trying to switch things up this time.

It only makes sense that Mijumaru and Pokabu, as beginners, would fall to Super Luck boosted attacks. Actually, if I'm Ash, I'm going for the burn with Ember to make Hatoboo's attacks weaker. Granted, critical hits negate stat drops, but again, I'm Ash and I don't necessarily know that.

It still boggles my mind that the same Pikachu that defeated a legendary Pokemon and a Pokemon with an immunity to its type lost to something that only resisted it, but thanks to Zekrom, I can put my mind at ease by saying it basically reset Pikachu to zero. Actually, that's why I don't really like the New Vestroia or Gundalian Invaders series of Bakugan. Everyone was reset to zero with new Bakugan except Dan, who keeps his EVOLVED DRAGO! I mean, why not set him back to his basic form?! God, they make him out to be some sort of Bakugan god!

Remember what I said about Mijumaru and Pokabu being lower-leveled? Same applies to Mamepato.

I hear Tsutaja beat Janovy, which is nice. Who says Ash doesn't use tactics anymore?

According to some of you, Dent made a remark about Pururiru's level, which could explain why it OHKO'd Mamepato. As for Cursed Body, kind of cheap, but Shooti doesn't seem like the type to go for Water Absorb, so it all evens out.

Overall, this rivalry seems rather fair, though we have yet to learn whether or not Shooti was just using those three Pokemon so far, which would probably explain their strength compared to Ash's Pokemon.

EDIT: According to Bulbapedia, Shooti has three more Pokemon. Still, it's possible that they were recently caught and therefore, not yet battle ready compared to, say, Pururiru.

Last edited by Nightlingbolt; 18th November 2010 at 8:15 PM.

Pokemon Y Friend Code: 3282-3535-2249

Friend Safari: Pansage, Petilil, Gogoat

As of now, my focus is on Safaris with starters (barring Wartortle and Quilladin), but give me your Safari anyway. Chances are I'll find something interesting.

Ok everyone needs to get off Ash's case. He did good it's just that most of his Pokemon were just weak. I mean what about Shooti? I mean I started thinking this after BW 001 and this has come back to thought. Shooti to me seems a little too good at battling for a rookie. I'm not saying he isn't a new trainer but throughout the whole series whenever we've seen a new trainer they were never this good. I mean if I didn't know better I would say that Shooti was an experienced trainer based on this battle. Seriously he had Janobii by the Sanyo gym battle and also a Hatopoo and Puruiuu? They way he executed his attacks and the power of those attacks like Grass Mixer. Seriously something is off with Shooti just saying.

The other three didn't even have a prayer in this fight but at least it didn't seem as bad as people made it out to be, at least compared to the paul match at lake acuity.

I don't know if I necessarily agree with that. Lets compare the rosters and their contributions a bit.

Isshu:

Mijumaru: Missed a single Water Gun and died.
Pokabu: Missed half a dozen of Embers.
Pikachu: Did well enough for the first time in Isshu, against a Flying type..
Tsutaja: Without a doubt the best in this battle.
Mamepato: Blocked by Protect and nothing else.

Sinnoh:

Buizel: Hit a pokemon
Staraptor: Took out a pokemon it had a disadvantage against.
Gliscor: Made Torterra pant.
Grotle: Did nothing really.. I'm a fan, but I think it got knocked out and its Energy Ball got nullified by Light Screen.
Pikachu: Hit a pokemon.
Monferno: Took out a pokemon.

So at the lake Acuity battle, although there may have been as many pokemon taken out on the opponents side as in this battle, most pokemon got a move or two in and generally performed better to my knowledge, Staraptor kept going even after getting hit by Torterra's Stone Edge for example. At least that's tons better then what Mijumaru, Pokabu and Mamepato did.

I don't know what's worse. In Sinnoh Ash had decent Pokemon, and Paul's were just up one or two notches, but in Isshu Ash seems to have two decent pokemon and the others can't do a darn thing. Thank god Mijumaru and Pokabu both had a win in the gym battle, but after seeing this trashing, I'm doubting the legitimacy of that. Mčh, Hatooboo owned..

Originally Posted by TicoPokemonMaster

What other grass attack would you suggest then. Cuz it has vine whip, give it razor leaf and you'd call it a bulbasaur and Bayleef clone. Give it grass mixer and you say it copied Janovy.

What saved the episode for me was pikachu taking down Hatooboo and Tsutarja's use of attract on Janovy.

Glad to hear that Shooti compliments Ash on the two pokemon that defeated his two pokemon. That's something we would never hear from Paul.

I agree with you here. Those were the most memorable moments indeed. I really loved the animation they used when Pikachu grabbed Hatooboo by the leg, and Attract was a awkward, but nice, thing to see Ash use.

Sorry to say though, I'm basically seeing Tsutaja as the complete mesh of all of Ash's previous Grass starters:

Seriously, they had to give Leaf Storm a new animation??? Sceptile just got his, it didn't even hit.. Why did they bother with that??

Ow, and the most peculiar thing: They gave Leaf Storm the exact colour that Razor Leaf had! If you would've told me that the animation for Razor Leaf was changed to a digital style, much in the vein of Water Gun, and that this was it, I would've surely believed anybody because it looks THAT similair. When Tsutaja's Leaf Storm hit Pururiru I found it hard to believe that that was a 140 base power move.. At least Torterra's looked like it would mess you up good.

Ow and I noted that both Tsutaja and Bayleef are females, not just because, but because this is very important for their characters and moves. It's not something irrelevant as well.. Does Ash have any other females besides Mamepato? Well, lets just say as irrelevant as Aipom's gender was. Bayleef's passion for Ash is what made her win, and Tsutaja's gender made it win against Janobii.

Originally Posted by Krizor

But the difference is, when we discovered that Paul was an experienced trainer, all the speculation of him being a rookie became null and void, that isn't going to happen with Shooti because we witnessed him receiving his first starter and know for a fact that he's a beginner. Which is what makes this rivalry completely unbelievable to me.

Pokabu has Ember and Tackle, yup, Ash is obviously a master trainer... Ash has won one badge with this batch of pokemon, and Shooti has his second badge.. Doesn't that say enough? I still don't get why you can't accept that Shooti just captured the better pokemon. Tsutaja is good, and Pikachu has been good all along and showed it mostly here, but Pokabu was left because it couldn't defeat a Shikijika of all things..

What I liked about this battle is that it was totally believable:

Pikachu beat a bird that beat two starter pokemon.
Tsutaja beat a pokemon that Pikachu couldn't beat, just as Pikachu couldn't beat Tsutaja.
Mamepato and Tsutaja lose to the same pokemon, keeping their status relativily unchanged to eachother.

Oh, and of Ash's Isshu pokemon, all but Mamepato now have a decent win. An evolution can make up for that if you know what I mean. Ow, and that's why I hope to see Pokabu and Mamepato in the Shippou gym battle. Along with Tsutaja if its a three on three.

Originally Posted by garfield15

-Shooti did say it out loud. Pikachu and Tsutarja are good but the rest of his Pokemon need more training. And to be honest I kinda agree with him. Yes, Shooti is a new trainer, however, he already has 5 Pokemon, 2 Badges and evolved one of his Pokemon (maybe two if he caught a Mamepato). Clearly he's further than Satoshi in every way. Now, I'm no expert, but come on people. Yes, the writers do write these things for longevity purposes but let's be honest here. Satoshi is going into battle with a Pokemon that only knows two moves. I mean, that was a recipe for failure right there. He wasn't going to win this one and logic dictates that as such. Tsutarja was pre-trained and Pikachu is Pikachu. Satoshi just hasn't done enough to beat Shooti right now.

-Stupid Protect.

-Oh and Team Rocket was pretty epic this episode. When was the last time we had a car chase in Pokemon? Matter of fact, when was the last time an actual police force went after them and actively tried to stop them?

Doesn't Shooti have his sixth pokemon already? I thought that I heard him mention a full battle when he entered the Battle Club, and then when he heard Ash say that he only had five pokemon Shooti waved him off, but he got coursed back to battle him by Iris and agreed to a five on five.

That said, I completely agree with you. Shooti's got talent, and that's something that Ash lacked when he started.

Originally Posted by garfield15

The only thing I thought was cheap about that battle was the dodging of Attract and Protect. All the other stuff is just logical battle-wise.

That being said, I wonder if this foreshadows any of Satoshi's Pokemon evolving before Shippou City.

Oh and Janovy was using Cut. Not Leaf Blade. Leaf Blade is green.

CUT!?!?! WHAT!?!?!

Seriously, since when did they think of starting to use that move.. Ow wait, the writers still feel smart when they ditch Protect on a pokemon, dumb me...

I wonder as well. Pokabu looked really sad when it lost. That could indicate that it is going to train harder when Chaobuu eventually shows up. Mamepato still hasn't won a battle, so it might be up as well. Maybe Tsutaja's good performance here means it can sit one out, or maybe it indicates that Ash will need her once again.

I mean if we go by who needs a win, I'd say Pokabu and Mamepato, but if we go by who'd be best to pick, I'd say Tsutaja and Pikachu obviously. I don't see Mijumaru in the Shippou gym battle, and I would be surprised if it is chosen... If it is a three on three, then I'd go with Pokabu, Mamepato (Please a Hatooboo by this time), and Tsutaja, for the sake of redemption, and hopefully the battle showcase of a new move (Pokabu Nitro Charge or Heat Stamp please), Evolution (Hatooboo please) or/and pokemon (Tsutaja).

Originally Posted by gliscor&yanmega

The move Pururiru used was Evil Eye. It also used Protect, Water Pulse, and Night Shade.

Which is pretty darn good if you ask me. Krizor might say that Shooti is a noob, but he at least makes sure that his pokemon have decent movesets.

Protect: Probably the most used defensive attack in the animé, close up there with Harden...
Water Pulse: Decent Water type STAB attack that works of its better attack stat and has a chance of inflicting a status affliction.
Evil Eye: New Ghost type STAB attack that works of its better attack stat and raises in power whenever the opponent has a status affliction, which it can induce on it on its own through the use of Water Pulse.
Night Shade: Always does the same amount of damage regardless of stat drops.

That and just Pururiru overall.. It can float, so no Ground type effectiviness and uses that extra dimension to evade and it has a killer ability for any physical attack user...

Originally Posted by Nacreous

I like Aerial Ace's new animation...they finally made it resemble the game animation with the two hits...

Hatooboo reminded me of Ash's Swellow

It does a little bit. This bird is speedy and hits hard. There's just one big difference though: it has a better move pool. Now if Swellow had Cheer Up or anything better then a move with 60 base power, then I'd consider it equal to Staraptor and Noctowl, but now it just doesn't cut it, yet. It's strong, but it isn't as versitile. You could see it in this battle. The animators didn't even bother to change the animation of Hatooboo dodging Water Gun and Ember... It used the same strategy twice and attempted to do so thrice. That's the issue I had with Swellow, and that's why I like Noctowl and Staraptor:

Noctowl:
- Attacks either physically: Sky Attack
- And with special moves: Extrasensory and Air Slash.
Staraptor:
- Doesn't always go in with his head to strike because of Close Combat.

Answer to all the bad things in the world: Give up on trying to make everything better. Hence, accepting it for what it is. YOLO! <- Click the link and daw.. -.-

I don't think that's the case, Attract is pretty crippling when used in the anime, at least Ash remembered it.

Not to pleased to hear about Tsutarja's other moves though, Leaf Blade and Storm? Geez talk about cloning his previous grass types to the max (because only Attract makes it stand out attack wise.) and judging by the way Shooti's Janovy was enjoying it's thrashing, i'm not liking what could happen down the road.

Of course the fact Tsutarja was able to beat it's evolved form likely means it won't evolve now but this isn't the best place to discuss that.

Pikachu lost because of Volt Tackle yet again and people still believe it should keep that move? Come on writers, it's time to let it go with AG, I know it might be a finishing type attack but at the same time if it's gonna constantly cause Pikachu to lose then it needs to be ditched.

The other three didn't even have a prayer in this fight but at least it didn't seem as bad as people made it out to be, at least compared to the paul match at lake acuity.

Actually that was a move ordered by Shooti. At first I thought it was focus energy because of its ability but it can't learn it. Bulbapedia mentions it was cheer up, a move that raises both attack stats.

Ah, that would definitely explain things.

@Locormus, excellent explanation on things. I guess part of the problem is being unable to understand Japanese, and going purely by interpretation. But otherwise, I wholeheartedly agree with what you're getting at.

Also, this is just something personal, but I want Aloe to flat out sweep Ash with that... Mirohoggu, is that it's name? The evolved form of Minezumi. Why? Because if Ash loses to her, he'll be forced to actually train some of his pokes for round 2. I really want that to happen.

C_L

"I'm not really here that much, if at all. I've moved on, to a different site."

"But, it's been fun. I'll come back every so often, but for the most part, I won't post much."

Did you even know the movesets from Ash's current team? all of his pokemon are ROOKIES, are BEGINNERS, have no EXPERIENCE -_- sure levels don't exists in the anime but come on! Ash is not perfect, and his lost was justified because it looks Shooti is training harder than him. This **** would be boring if Ash won all the freakin' time.

You have to work harder in order to get your goals. Thank God the writers keep it real, that's why I love this show.

How was my post dumb? I was just giving my honest opinion on the match, insulting someone just because you don't like their opinion is pretty dumb to me.

And I'm not saying Ash needs to win every battle, but since Shooti is a new trainer, the playing field needs to be leveled. He shouldn't be having landslide victories against a seasoned trainer and Ash should be able to beat him a few times before the League. I can't buy this rivalry if Ash is going to continuously get his ass handed to him by a rookie trainer all the way until they have a huge match at the League, that's just bad writing and not believable at all.

Also, this is just something personal, but I want Aloe to flat out sweep Ash with that... Mirohoggu, is that it's name? The evolved form of Minezumi. Why? Because if Ash loses to her, he'll be forced to actually train some of his pokes for round 2. I really want that to happen.

C_L

That would be totally awesome. It'd be some good writing too.

Originally Posted by hol123

Tsutarja > Pikachu > Mijumaru > Pokabu > Mamepato

I think Pikach is still a bit over Tsutarja even though they know the same moves.

Mamepato is way over Pokabu. Mijumaru, yeah he can hang in the middle.

Originally Posted by Locormus

Mijumaru: Missed a single Water Gun and died.
Pokabu: Missed half a dozen of Embers.
Pikachu: Did well enough for the first time in Isshu, against a Flying type..
Tsutaja: Without a doubt the best in this battle.
Mamepato: Blocked by Protect and nothing else.

Sinnoh:

Buizel: Hit a pokemon
Staraptor: Took out a pokemon it had a disadvantage against.
Gliscor: Made Torterra pant.
Grotle: Did nothing really.. I'm a fan, but I think it got knocked out and its Energy Ball got nullified by Light Screen.
Pikachu: Hit a pokemon.
Monferno: Took out a pokemon.

So at the lake Acuity battle, although there may have been as many pokemon taken out on the opponents side as in this battle, most pokemon got a move or two in and generally performed better to my knowledge, Staraptor kept going even after getting hit by Torterra's Stone Edge for example. At least that's tons better then what Mijumaru, Pokabu and Mamepato did.

That's really not a fair comparison. You're comparing the second rival battle (technically first at full power) in BW to a later one in DP.

Originally Posted by Locormus

all but Mamepato now have a decent win.

What about Pokabu beating Baoppu or Mijumaru beating Yanappu or Mijumaru knocking out the two Darumakka (well, they were unconsious. That counts)

Originally Posted by Locormus

Doesn't Shooti have his sixth pokemon already? I thought that I heard him mention a full battle when he entered the Battle Club, and then when he heard Ash say that he only had five pokemon Shooti waved him off, but he got coursed back to battle him by Iris and agreed to a five on five.

Oh right. I missed that. Okay see that? Shooti's got a full team. Satoshi does not.

Also, why was everybody getting annoyed at Water Pulse causing Confusion on Tsutarja? Doesn't Water Pulse have a chance of Confusion?

well its certain to me now that tsutarja will be the infernape of this series. what i mean by this is it will slightly overshadow the other starter pokemon which really excites me as i simple love it. the personality the design and the smug look are just fantastic. i think it will only slightly overshadow pokabu and mijumaru because they also have decent plot lines.. mijumaru loving ash... and the usual fire type abused crap thing for pokabu ISSHU REGION ROCKS!!!

And I'm not saying Ash needs to win every battle, but since Shooti is a new trainer, the playing field needs to be leveled. He shouldn't be having landslide victories against a seasoned trainer and Ash should be able to beat him a few times before the League. I can't buy this rivalry if Ash is going to continuously get his ass handed to him by a rookie trainer all the way until they have a huge match at the League, that's just bad writing and not believable at all.

This is Pokemon dude. The writers are lazy as hell, and this show never had great writing anyway. I don't expect the writers ever to step out of their comfort zone, and make Ash superior to his primary rival. The underdog story is so easy to write, and that's what they use for Ash in terms of his main rival. Next season is probably going to be the exact same thing, with the rival, and the same with the one after that. Rinse, and repeat. It's sad, but you al should be used to this by now.

Though really I just want to see Ash use Infernape, Sceptile, Snorlax, Heracross, Gligar, etc. just to see Shooti's reaction. But of course the writers won't do that because that at this point because that woud make Ash>>>Shooti, and we can't have that when we have the same old, same old formulaic way main rivals are handled now can we?

To be honest, I think Shooti has been done pretty well for a rival. Unless it's later shown that he catches and releases weak pokemon, It seems that his training method is similar to Ash's and I think that could have a big impact later on.

A soul that cannot be saved drifts and disappears,
In the instant it vanishes, it shines faintly,
Now, it creates a night with a full moon.

Though really I just want to see Ash use Infernape, Sceptile, Snorlax, Heracross, Gligar, etc. just to see Shooti's reaction. But of course the writers won't do that because that at this point because that woud make Ash>>>Shooti, and we can't have that when we have the same old, same old formulaic way main rivals are handled now can we?

Or, another option, if they did that, we would know Satoshi would win no sweat. And that's really boring.

Pathetic, honestly I wouldn't have minded Ash's loss but it was a LANDSLIDE!!! >:/

Shooti only revealed 3 pokemon, 2 technically because we know he had a Tsutarja.

It was a 2 over 5 victory for Shooti and the guy just started on his journey. I really did not see the point of this episode. Just plain horrible IMO and a huge blow to all the training Ash ever did in his trainer career.

For all those saying that Ash has rookies for pokemon, spare me. Shooti has 5 new pokemon and has them all at a high level. If Ash didn't train his pokemon thats his fault.

I lost a lot of respect for the writers and Ash because of this episode. I would be sorely disappointed if Ash ends up battling Shooti at the League and wins.

Now please excuse me while I release some of the steam I built up due to this atrocious episode.

Ok everyone needs to get off Ash's case. He did good it's just that most of his Pokemon were just weak. I mean what about Shooti? I mean I started thinking this after BW 001 and this has come back to thought. Shooti to me seems a little too good at battling for a rookie. I'm not saying he isn't a new trainer but throughout the whole series whenever we've seen a new trainer they were never this good. I mean if I didn't know better I would say that Shooti was an experienced trainer based on this battle. Seriously he had Janobii by the Sanyo gym battle and also a Hatopoo and Puruiuu? They way he executed his attacks and the power of those attacks like Grass Mixer. Seriously something is off with Shooti just saying.

Shooti isn't a beginner, he went to a pokemon learning school so he has experience, this is his first pokemon journey though, ash had all new pokemon and they aren't trained and shooti has 2 badges and some great pokemon so I would call hax if shooti did not win.