That was my problem with dbz, but it makes perfect sense in naruto. I'll discuss it once the anime gets there. Kishi is a great writer when it comes to handling "power creep"

I look forward to hearing it.

I thought dbz was able to get away with it because they really gave the audience such a strong feeling of internally escalating power that it didnt seem that forced. That might be all due to the screaming, but when you think Goku has nothing left and the situation is so emotionally charged that he just erupts into a whole new level of power, all boys secretly wish to have that moment and it just connects well. It's annoying for me in naturo when they go up like 2 or 3 levels in one fight. there's no build up or sublty. It just cuts through any dramatic build up and you can't enjoy it as much. When Rock Lee opened his first gate, it was incredible, then when he went 2 gates I was about to die. Then all of a sudden he more than doubles, goes to 5, and still loses. what the $#@!. it's just the lamest $#@! in the world.

and you mention Lee as an example. Well the moment the anime/manga introduced the Inner Gates, in the same episode we knew the upper ceiling as well (that there were 8 of them and they COULD be opened) Gai said that lee could open 3 (or 4) and after the 3 years of timeskip training he could open 5. Make perfect sense and which fight are you referring to when he goes 5 gates and loses? Because Gai has defeated anyone he has faced using the gates and I don't remember Lee losing to someone other than gaara

Simirarily during Naruto and Pain's fight, according to Nagato, it is said that the Sage of Six Paths created the moon using planetary devastation. That remains the ceiling of power, the utmost highest legend. We have now witnessed one of the greatest Shinobi to ever live; Madara Uchiha and you will continue to see his power when he takes on the 5 kage. Did you think they made The Final Valley for some chumps? Imagine how strong the First hokage would have been to defeat Madara multiple times.

This is why Naruto is so much superior to dbz, because Naruto doesn't forget its own folklore and consistent back story. Madara was feared and respected ages ago and now we know why.

Last edited by Itachi; 08-05-2013 at 02:00.

I wonder when a nuclear warhead goes off, does the frame rate of real life drop?

Hey Itachi, i (finally) read your essay on DBZ. I agree with your basic points. but I feel that power creep is actually worse in Naruto. Maybe not in an analytic sense if you actually take into account power levels, but in the way it feels. DBZ wasn't as bad for me, partly because I was young and it was awesome but also partly because the explosion of power corresponded well with the gravity of the situation and the intensity of the moment/feelings. When Krillin died, I dont care what they could have said about maximums, you could feel Goku's hurt and anger. It felt strong enough to surpass even the impossible and I was right there with him.

This final war in Naruto just amps it up like i've never seen before. At least with DBZ there were whole saga inbetween increases in power. But this final war just shoots everything up. Especially right now with Marada (I haven't seen the last 2 episodes yet). I mean, planetary devistation is like one of the $#@!ing strongest things we've ever seen. Now Madara comes in talking all cool and casual about trying out some new jutsus. He drops a meteor like its nothing. They did a good job showing how powerful with move was by showing how hard it was for 2 kage combining efforts to efforts. Then he pulls out a second one without breaking a sweat...
That not enough, ok here's another ultimate jutsu (crazy forest thing) coming at you without any intensity in the character or situation. It makes it a lot lamer than it should.

So now when my favorite character Lee (also applies to Gai) goes 8 gates, its not going to do $#@!. Do you remember how intense it was when he just opened the Gate of healing? Thats what I expected with every new gate. No, instead we get super impressive gate one, then stronger gate two, then quick jump to 5 like it's nothing. How am I supposed to feel the intensity if they just ramp these things up so unceremoniously.

Hey Itachi, i (finally) read your essay on DBZ. I agree with your basic points. but I feel that power creep is actually worse in Naruto. Maybe not in an analytic sense if you actually take into account power levels, but in the way it feels. DBZ wasn't as bad for me, partly because I was young and it was awesome but also partly because the explosion of power corresponded well with the gravity of the situation and the intensity of the moment/feelings. When Krillin died, I dont care what they could have said about maximums, you could feel Goku's hurt and anger. It felt strong enough to surpass even the impossible and I was right there with him.

This final war in Naruto just amps it up like i've never seen before. At least with DBZ there were whole saga inbetween increases in power. But this final war just shoots everything up. Especially right now with Marada (I haven't seen the last 2 episodes yet). I mean, planetary devistation is like one of the $#@!ing strongest things we've ever seen. Now Madara comes in talking all cool and casual about trying out some new jutsus. He drops a meteor like its nothing. They did a good job showing how powerful with move was by showing how hard it was for 2 kage combining efforts to efforts. Then he pulls out a second one without breaking a sweat...
That not enough, ok here's another ultimate jutsu (crazy forest thing) coming at you without any intensity in the character or situation. It makes it a lot lamer than it should.

So now when my favorite character Lee (also applies to Gai) goes 8 gates, its not going to do $#@!. Do you remember how intense it was when he just opened the Gate of healing? Thats what I expected with every new gate. No, instead we get super impressive gate one, then stronger gate two, then quick jump to 5 like it's nothing. How am I supposed to feel the intensity if they just ramp these things up so unceremoniously.

All I will say is that in the next episode or two [redacted] mostly because the situation has come to that high of a level. I will still hold some of the discussion back due to the spoilery nature of it but I think Madara's attack was still no where near as overpowered considering a single tailed beast bomb can level mountains. Madara is also the second of the two greatest ninja to have EVER lived in the naruto world (other being the one who defeated him; Hashirama) and its impossible it is for anyone else to perform the meteor attack because it requires 3 sets of hands, so unless you have a rinnegan and susanoo, you can't. And there is only one rinnegan in the world as of yet so I say its not that cheap of a move

Last edited by Itachi; 08-30-2013 at 05:24.
Reason: minor spoiler

I wonder when a nuclear warhead goes off, does the frame rate of real life drop?

All I will say is that in the next episode or two [redacted] mostly because the situation has come to that high of a level. I will still hold some of the discussion back due to the spoilery nature of it but I think Madara's attack was still no where near as overpowered considering a single tailed beast bomb can level mountains. Madara is also the second of the two greatest ninja to have EVER lived in the naruto world (other being the one who defeated him; Hashirama) and its impossible it is for anyone else to perform the meteor attack because it requires 3 sets of hands, so unless you have a rinnegan and susanoo, you can't. And there is only one rinnegan in the world as of yet so I say its not that cheap of a move

hey whoa whoa whoa. im a psycho when it comes to spoilers man. and i love Gai. please no more. or edit this post so i know it's completely spoiler free. and by spoiler free, I dont even want to know that the 5 kage are going to be seen fighting madara still.

hey whoa whoa whoa. im a psycho when it comes to spoilers man. and i love Gai. please no more. or edit this post so i know it's completely spoiler free. and by spoiler free, I dont even want to know that the 5 kage are going to be seen fighting madara still.

thanks.

Other than the gai thing in the first line (now removed), there is/were no spoilers in that post

Last edited by Itachi; 08-30-2013 at 05:25.

I wonder when a nuclear warhead goes off, does the frame rate of real life drop?

Other than the gai thing in the first line (now removed), there is/were no spoilers in that post

I feel like a tailed beast bomb from a one tail would be a lot easier to stop for the combined efforts of onoki and gaara the toll that meteor took on them. I think it's just kind of lame because there is no build up to these S-level jutsu. Madara isn't busting them out all "cool" like Itachi can, he's just throwing them out as if for $#@!s and giggles. I want more drama when the power is amped up that high.

Other than the gai thing in the first line (now removed), there is/were no spoilers in that post

I feel like a tailed beast bomb from a one tail would be a lot easier to stop for the combined efforts of onoki and gaara the toll that meteor took on them. I think it's just kind of lame because there is no build up to these S-level jutsu. Madara isn't busting them out all "cool" like Itachi can, he's just throwing them out as if for $#@!s and giggles. I want more drama when the power is amped up that high.

Hey Itachi, i (finally) read your essay on DBZ. I agree with your basic points. but I feel that power creep is actually worse in Naruto. Maybe not in an analytic sense if you actually take into account power levels, but in the way it feels. DBZ wasn't as bad for me, partly because I was young and it was awesome but also partly because the explosion of power corresponded well with the gravity of the situation and the intensity of the moment/feelings. When Krillin died, I dont care what they could have said about maximums, you could feel Goku's hurt and anger. It felt strong enough to surpass even the impossible and I was right there with him.

This final war in Naruto just amps it up like i've never seen before. At least with DBZ there were whole saga inbetween increases in power. But this final war just shoots everything up. Especially right now with Marada (I haven't seen the last 2 episodes yet). I mean, planetary devistation is like one of the $#@!ing strongest things we've ever seen. Now Madara comes in talking all cool and casual about trying out some new jutsus. He drops a meteor like its nothing. They did a good job showing how powerful with move was by showing how hard it was for 2 kage combining efforts to efforts. Then he pulls out a second one without breaking a sweat...
That not enough, ok here's another ultimate jutsu (crazy forest thing) coming at you without any intensity in the character or situation. It makes it a lot lamer than it should.

So now when my favorite character Lee (also applies to Gai) goes 8 gates, its not going to do $#@!. Do you remember how intense it was when he just opened the Gate of healing? Thats what I expected with every new gate. No, instead we get super impressive gate one, then stronger gate two, then quick jump to 5 like it's nothing. How am I supposed to feel the intensity if they just ramp these things up so unceremoniously.

Your point is important, as the episode and theme that got me started with DBZ in the first place was actually Goku going into SS3 with fat Buu. I didn't care much for the show and even thought it was kinda dumb until that episode which I watched to see what would occur and right then after that I was hooked line and sinker. I actually got into my main 3 animes by random watching and not seeking out.

Final Fantasy IX is without question not only the best video game ever made, but the best entertainment created by mankind.

Is it me or the entire War arc seems horribly animated?
I'm watching these Naruto AMVs (this for example) on youtube and these clips of the Pre time skip series and shippuden fights from previous arcs seem so much better.

The only episode that was well done was madara's reveal

I wonder when a nuclear warhead goes off, does the frame rate of real life drop?