I have this particular reaction to many duals (ESI) and to some conflictors (SEI), because duals and conflictors can look alike from a distance, since they have the same function dimensionality.

Usually, though, my conflictors have a (begin straight brain download: ) sharper, more youthful look, while my duals have a softer, more florid look. You are close to looking like both, but I think I see Ti in there. And even though you are very attractive, somewhere in the back of my mind, warning alarm bells are going off. (end direct brain download).

If I were to guess your type from the picture alone, I'd say you were an introverted feeler from either the Alpha or Beta quadra and would wait for more information before making a more specific guess.

I have this particular reaction to many duals (ESI) and to some conflictors (SEI), because duals and conflictors can look alike from a distance, since they have the same function dimensionality.

Usually, though, my conflictors have a (begin straight brain download: ) sharper, more youthful look, while my duals have a softer, more florid look. You are close to looking like both, but I think I see Ti in there. And even though you are very attractive, somewhere in the back of my mind, warning alarm bells are going off. (end direct brain download).

If I were to guess your type from the picture alone, I'd say you were an introverted feeler from either the Alpha or Beta quadra and would wait for more information before making a more specific guess.

But why warning bells? What if we really are duals but your reaction is typical of my dual all along? I'm 44 now - engaged but it isn't coming together. I have spent most my best years very lonely hardly dating at all in my adult life. I wish NTs were more forward about asking women they might like out, because if they don't show interest my tendency is to not want to impose ...

What did you mean about seeing Ti? I used to ace logic tests and was at the top of my logic class. And Diff Eq. For a long time I figured I was an NT. Only recently did I see how I could make sense of intertype relations with many people I have known if only I considered SEI.

But why warning bells? What if we really are duals but your reaction is typical of my dual all along?

I’m 99% certain that I’m LIE, so the only way we could be duals is if you are ESI. And my reaction to ESI’s is either to see them and take a neutral stance toward them because of some "closer relationship is impossible" factor that I see there, or to wonder how I can insert myself into their lives in some way that seems fairly natural. In other words, I either ignore them or approach them with some degree of awkwardness. I never see them, think they are attractive, and immediately have warning bells go off in my head.
The warning bells are some signal from the gestalt in my head that says I’m very likely seeing an SEI. I can’t really point out what it is about SEI’s that I use to identify them, other than what I’ve said earlier, but I never get that reaction with ESI’s. I’ve had some bad experiences with SEI’s IRL that have really put me off, and I think my subconscious is very sensitive to them now. Hence the warning bells.
(I should add that I work with an absolutely terrific SEI, so not all my experiences have been bad.)

Originally Posted by vesstheastralsilky

I'm 44 now - engaged but it isn't coming together. I have spent most my best years very lonely hardly dating at all in my adult life. I wish NTs were more forward about asking women they might like out, because if they don't show interest my tendency is to not want to impose ...

I’m sorry to hear that. I know what it’s like to feel that you’ve wasted years of your life on the wrong (or no) person. This feeling, incidentally, has been described by Stratiyevskaya as the way ESI’s can react when their SO isn’t the person they think he should be, so you might have that in common with ESI’s.
For what it’s worth, the ILE’s whom I know are not in any hurry to get married. I told one ILE, “You’re about 38, when are you going to get serious about your life?”
He said, “Maybe when I’m fifty.” But I suspect when he’s fifty, he’ll feel exactly the same as he does now, only he’ll be less marketable.
This characteristic of some ILE’s strikes me as a tragedy for SEI’s, but I also assume that if they know that ILE’s are like this (eternally kids who refuse to be responsible for someone else), then they can take appropriate action (cut them off, find a new guy who will commit, take a strong stand for themselves and make a “willingness to commit” the primary requirement for a second date).

Originally Posted by vesstheastralsilky

What did you mean about seeing Ti? I used to ace logic tests and was at the top of my logic class. And Diff Eq. For a long time I figured I was an NT. Only recently did I see how I could make sense of intertype relations with many people I have known if only I considered SEI.

Thank you for your typing assertion.

Your math skills might just mean you are smart. When I said I saw Ti, what I meant was that there is a sharpness to your features and your eyes that I associate with Ti. I can’t really explain what, exactly, I’m seeing, though.
I think it’s very possible that you are SEI. As I said, my pattern recognition function instantly found you attractive, like a dual or a conflictor. And if you have discovered that your ITR’s indicate you are SEI, then I believe you.
However, VI doesn’t always work as a typing method, and I'm far from being a good typer. If you are still doubtful about your type, I recommend that you interact with the people on the forum and ask a few good typers here what they think. The best typers, IMO, use Ti logic and analysis to type. You may get several answers, but I think that method will get you closer to an accurate conclusion and might even reinforce your present beliefs.

In other words, I either ignore them or approach them with some degree of awkwardness.

Oh wow, this is a perfect description of a missed opportunity I had years ago with someone I have typed as being my dual, among others. He was only in my life a short time but is still in my heart. My attempts at re-establishing contact over the years have been sadly fruitless.

Just reading that sentence, the memory came back and my heart stirred and grew hot with warmth. I haven't seen him now in almost 12 years and am not likely to again. Life goes too fast but impressions are long-lasting. We never even went on a date.

Originally Posted by Adam Strange

I’m sorry to hear that. I know what it’s like to feel that you’ve wasted years of your life on the wrong (or no) person. This feeling, incidentally, has been described by Stratiyevskaya as the way ESI’s can react when their SO isn’t the person they think he should be, so you might have that in common with ESI’s.
For what it’s worth, the ILE’s whom I know are not in any hurry to get married. I told one ILE, “You’re about 38, when are you going to get serious about your life?”
He said, “Maybe when I’m fifty.” But I suspect when he’s fifty, he’ll feel exactly the same as he does now, only he’ll be less marketable.
This characteristic of some ILE’s strikes me as a tragedy for SEI’s, but I also assume that if they know that ILE’s are like this (eternally kids who refuse to be responsible for someone else), then they can take appropriate action (cut them off, find a new guy who will commit, take a strong stand for themselves and make a “willingness to commit” the primary requirement for a second date).

You are right about some people being this way. It is sad because I really wanted a home and family but most of all a reliable true and committed lover. Past long-term relations usually only came together for practical convenience especially for him, or a more idyllic platonic friendship from his end which I would get bored and frustrated with for dramatic lack of Si sensuality needs being met. I am referring to past partners when I say him.

Thank you so much for your replies. It helps me try to make sense of things.

I am in a long distance engagement now for two years. He lives in another country and we haven't met in person yet. I have been sad again lately, even crying at inopportune times, because he is making it too impossible for things to work out between us. It is like he will not contribute any responsibilities for himself or the relationship and is expecting more from me than I can do give or be. I am trying to guard against time being wasted and my efforts taken for granted because it happens too often.

I will post more old pix as VI references for the sake of helping others here.

Here is a pic at age 12 in a Halloween costume (I blocked out the top of it in the pic). I think I was more true to myself here than in many other photos which followed years later when life just got increasingly harder and me less able to just try and make myself happy anyway. When I see this pic I think of my strong tidal waves of emotional energy (mirrored by someone like Michael Palin) being introverted and sublimated sensually back into my body as Si while feeling externally enthused by some wild concept or idea ...

& here is one from mid-30s., a more typical but perhaps boring pose because I have been most emotionally dissatisfied with what life keeps throwing at me for many years now. So I tend to look calm cold or sad in most pics.

I think it is #4 that looks like one pic among SEI photos from a Russian site - the wide smile.

Yet now that site has been updated and shows Natalie Portman under INTPs along with Enya. Hmmm Idk about the accuracy of any of that. For many years there in my 30s I was often told by acquaintances and strangers that they thought I resembled Natalie a lot. Ahhh, will typing incongruencies ever cease ...

Remember too that it used to be reported for years on the internet that more people score INFP on type tests than any other yet INFP was allegedly among the most rare per MBTI folks who hadn't caught up with the progress of Socionics yet.

@vesstheastralsilky, your pictures show the dangers of using VI exclusively to type someone, particularly if the typer uses association to sort people, as I do.

For example, in my opinion, picture #1 could be SEI or ESI, but tends towards SEI because Fe > Fi.

Pictures #2 and 3 look A LOT like my SLI ex-wife, mainly because I'm seeing lots of Si there. (And here is the bad part. I married my ex in large part because of her Si. I hadn't encountered Socionics yet and therefore didn't realize that my subconscious orientation towards ESI's unvalued 4D Si could lead me to a person with valued 4D Si.)

Picture #4 really does look a lot like Natalie Portman. IDK her type, but I'm not attracted to it.

Picture #5 is an introvert with lots of Fe. I happen to associate that with IEI-Fe's, but that's just because I know several women like that and I only know one SEI-Fe and I minimize my contact with her to preserve good relations. This illustrates the dangers of going by association alone.

Picture #6 looks like a very unhappy IEI. Again, I'm probably seeing Fe, along with the fact that I sometimes see this expression on the face of an IEI whom I've dated and who is divorced from an ILE.

Picture #7 looks like a smart, attractive female. I don't know what type she is, but I like it. (probably because the picture resembles my ex.)

So you can see from this that VI is fraught with potential errors because the traits which are being identified by visual association are shared with certain other types. The only saving grace of VI is that it is quick and if you have enough information, you can often quickly triangulate a single type from seeing many individual traits.
Therefore, after viewing these pictures, I would ask myself, which type has lots of accomplished Si, has good Fe, and is introverted? And even then, I'd want to talk with the person at length, because that can make a huge difference. I'm a terrible typer because I tend to quickly grab some information and make a snap decision to be modified later, whereas my duals would gather lots more info before offering a much better opinion.

For example, when I first saw some pictures of @hag, I thought Delta Delta Delta, but her writing style and sense of humor are consistently ESI.

On another note, if you've known your present BF for two years and you haven't met him IRL and that's making you unhappy, you should take some active steps to resolve that, one way or another. Life is too short to wait for someone else to take action.
This "sticking around for a guy who is never there, just because he hasn't actively offended you" was described by Stratiyevskaya in her ESI-LIE duality article. I don't know how many characteristics are shared between ESI's and SEI's, but it is worth reading.

@vesstheastralsilky, your pictures show the dangers of using VI exclusively to type someone, particularly if the typer uses association to sort people, as I do.

...

So you can see from this that VI is fraught with potential errors because the traits which are being identified by visual association are shared with certain other types.

Adam Strange, regardless of intertype relational assumptions, just by reading your posts you are an awesome person. I'm a bit tired (Activity?) after so much positively helpful information directly relevant to my concerns whether spoken or unspoken. It is great how you pointed out the truth of the trickiness of VI even though with practice it can be so very useful. As for your relationship advice and links, I haven't been able to check it all out yet but some was right on showing my fiance has been acting like an ILE in ways I have grown concerned about. I didn't think it could've just been natural for his type. I don't want to be too critical of his goals but everyday he has been changing his dreams. I had simply attributed it to his being a young Pisces.

Is there a thread you can point me to about more of your interests? Or perhaps answer my childhood interest thread in the general section I ought to review again to see if you responded.

Adam Strange, regardless of intertype relational assumptions, just by reading your posts you are an awesome person. I'm a bit tired (Activity?) after so much positively helpful information directly relevant to my concerns whether spoken or unspoken. It is great how you pointed out the truth of the trickiness of VI even though with practice it can be so very useful. As for your relationship advice and links, I haven't been able to check it all out yet but some was right on showing my fiance has been acting like an ILE in ways I have grown concerned about. I didn't think it could've just been natural for his type. I don't want to be too critical of his goals but everyday he has been changing his dreams. I had simply attributed it to his being a young Pisces.

Is there a thread you can point me to about more of your interests? Or perhaps answer my childhood interest thread in the general section I ought to review again to see if you responded.

Thanks, @vesstheastralsilky. You are too kind. I'm merely doing the LIE thing of trying to optimize everything around me for efficiency, and that includes a person's happiness.

I've never really talked much about my interests here. I'm interested in fundamental Physics, in practical optics, in machine tool mechanics, and in economics (what works and how) and politics (how we can all thrive without killing each other). I also don't like to have controlling bosses (my mother thoroughly cured me of that) and I've managed to mostly avoid them since I was 28 or so.

As for my childhood interests, I basically focused on pleasing my violent, narcissist mother in order to stay alive. When I wasn't doing that, I was playing games with the other kids on the street and tried to stay out of the house as much as possible. I got good grades in school because my mother required that.

When I hit 11 yo, I got interested in Astronomy because I realized I wasn't going to have to live at home forever and I wanted to learn about the rest of the world. Especially the parts as far away from my mother as possible. Lol. This interest led me to learn about Physics and Chemistry and Math and optics (telescopes) and I made a telescope when I was 14, including grinding and polishing the mirror. The math for that helped with learning calculus in HS. The two topics kind of played off each other. Theory informed actions, and vice versa.
I made an aluminum furnace at age 16 from an oil drum, some firebrick, the gas line disconnected from the clothes dryer and forced air from my mother's vacuum cleaner, rigged to run backwards. I melted a bunch of aluminum in it and poured some castings for the telescope mount in the driveway before my parents came home from work. Making telescopes was my own life, not my mother's idea of my life. She wanted me to be a professor.
I read a lot of science fiction as a teen, since the worlds in the books were a lot better than the world I was living in.

I had two great friends in HS; an ESI and an IEI. The IEI married my sister, the ESI is now an Astrophysicist at UA in Tucson.

Thanks, @vesstheastralsilky. You are too kind. I'm merely doing the LIE thing of trying to optimize everything around me for efficiency, and that includes a person's happiness.

I've never really talked much about my interests here. I'm interested in fundamental Physics, in practical optics, in machine tool mechanics, and in economics (what works and how) and politics (how we can all thrive without killing each other). I also don't like to have controlling bosses (my mother thoroughly cured me of that) and I've managed to mostly avoid them since I was 28 or so.

As for my childhood interests, I basically focused on pleasing my violent, narcissist mother in order to stay alive. When I wasn't doing that, I was playing games with the other kids on the street and tried to stay out of the house as much as possible. I got good grades in school because my mother required that.

When I hit 11 yo, I got interested in Astronomy because I realized I wasn't going to have to live at home forever and I wanted to learn about the rest of the world. Especially the parts as far away from my mother as possible. Lol. This interest led me to learn about Physics and Chemistry and Math and optics (telescopes) and I made a telescope when I was 14, including grinding and polishing the mirror. The math for that helped with learning calculus in HS. The two topics kind of played off each other. Theory informed actions, and vice versa.
I made an aluminum furnace at age 16 from an oil drum, some firebrick, the gas line disconnected from the clothes dryer and forced air from my mother's vacuum cleaner, rigged to run backwards. I melted a bunch of aluminum in it and poured some castings for the telescope mount in the driveway before my parents came home from work. Making telescopes was my own life, not my mother's idea of my life. She wanted me to be a professor.
I read a lot of science fiction as a teen, since the worlds in the books were a lot better than the world I was living in.

I had two great friends in HS; an ESI and an IEI. The IEI married my sister, the ESI is now an Astrophysicist at UA in Tucson.

Fascinating.

I was a math/physics major in college but could only afford to pay my way for 3 years, the last being at U of MI D.

My 1st telescope was a tiny one I bought from Toys R Us for $16 with allowance savings at age 10. At age 14 I got an f/15 refractor for Christmas that was too dim for planetary viewing. At higher magnification the sight e.g. made Jupiter look more shaped like a football. I bought a Celestron f/8 reflector at age 22. I have never done anything so impressive as making one such as you described.

I was a math/physics major in college but could only afford to pay my way for 3 years, the last being at U of MI D.

My 1st telescope was a tiny one I bought from Toys R Us for $16 with allowance savings at age 10. At age 14 I got an f/15 refractor for Christmas that was too dim for planetary viewing. At higher magnification the sight e.g. made Jupiter look more shaped like a football. I bought a Celestron f/8 reflector at age 22. I have never done anything so impressive as making one such as you described.

You have telescopes? OMG, my one weakness. OK, that puts you on the side of the angels forever. Lol.

I, too, have an f/15 refractor and a Celestron C8. I don't observe with them, but I have them. Just to own, at this point. (I bought the C8 for LIDAR experiments.) I have access to larger scopes if I need them. I've toyed with the idea of buying a nice astrograph, but I don't have the time to use it. I'd want it to be my own optical design, anyway.

One of the great disservices that cheap telescopes do to people just entering the field is to give them a bunch of crappy images, due to bad construction. This has always upset me, and I always urge people to buy the best optics they can afford, or to join a club and see what the other people are using. That way, you can avoid buying junk.

FWIW your response was momentarily very Ni & Te, in my book. You rationally identified a different 'how' conceptually (Ni inner map) and presented another system (extroverted Te data object). See my definitions thread in the General page (that is, for those interested in more information)...

compare first picture on the left from your post with first picture in second row of:

Is there a specific reason why you don't type as SLI? Because Your first picture is the kind of smile every female SLI does. You look like a childhood friend and like one of my current friends (PM). Both are SLIs imo. Btw. I don't see Gamma for you in the slightest.

edit: there is thread somewhere that discusses how it's possible that Delta STs identify as Beta NFs - if you're interested - but I can't find it atm.
SLI > SEI >> IEI

I could type myself many ways depending on what set of info I put emphasis on. But it wasn't until I experienced duality with a thinker that I had to seriously reconsider intertype relations over images, profiles and model A on its own. I came up with a more enhanced model plus some definition refinements and augmentation (see other posts). If I'm going to call myself a type per Socionics, then intertype relations is essential. I found a way to make them work as SEI more than being any other type. I will post my archetypes I came up with years ago in the General Socionics section next.

I've developed Te but I don't think it's at my core natural self. I now think it is more learned behavior - and I'm terrible at Jeopardy. The right words don't come fast enough even if I know the answer because other cognitive processes take precedent.

Well, though I in particular jumped on several of your posts and was not very nice, I want to point out that you keep talking about your intellect, your mental pursuits, your logical reasoning for why you are or aren’t a type, and meanwhile your interpersonal abilities don’t seem strong. (Two years engaged to someone online, bragging, rude statements to others, more or less spamming the famous people section, etc.) It seems more like unawareness than being interpersonally bold and knowing what the effects will be and doing those things anyway.

And that’s okay, btw, I don’t necessarily care if someone isn’t great at gauging interpersonal reactions or managing self-presentation.

Well, though I in particular jumped on several of your posts and was not very nice, I want to point out that you keep talking about your intellect, your mental pursuits, your logical reasoning for why you are or aren’t a type, and meanwhile your interpersonal abilities don’t seem strong. (Two years engaged to someone online, bragging, rude statements to others, more or less spamming the famous people section, etc.) It seems more like unawareness than being interpersonally bold and knowing what the effects will be and doing those things anyway.

And that’s okay, btw, I don’t necessarily care if someone isn’t great at gauging interpersonal reactions or managing self-presentation.

But either this stuff is NTR, or you are not an ethical type.

I disagree, I think her interaction style just seems so over the top SEI. I don't have any doubt in my mind. SEIs can be incredibly pigheaded and confrontational. Lol I'm no exception. I think, if the OP is really SEI, then the impersonal typing style is kinda learned. Plus I can talk like that too, if I wanted to, but I don't. While she does use logic, I don't think she's very strong logical person. I don't mean in the sense that she's stupid, but like... SEI are not logical people, so that seems to fit. Like, have you ever debated a strong Ti type vs an SEI? The difference is kinda obvious.

As for being engaged two years or whatever, I don't really know if that's type related lol. But yeah, the online part is weird, especially if OP is engaged to an ILE (is she? I wouldn't know). I personally would not get engaged to a person if I haven't met them in person, but TBH I don't know the situation so I'm not judging. As for her behavior on here, IDK how much of it shes just trolling, and she seems to legit believe she's better than everyone else lol. Again, these are things I have seen from SEI before as well. Like, there's a total dark side to the sweet, unassuming, Japanese school girl archetype, SEI but instead of being badass, it's just lame and annoying. SEI totally lack self awareness, like totally.

The 150 IQ is like... IDK I don't really know much about the science behind that, so I don't have much to say. Except from my observation, high IQ people have a hard time interacting with society or something. I do have a high EQ, like the performed a test for it. I'm good at recognizing facial expressions and stuff like that. I guess you can't see that from posting on a forum.

As I mentioned elsewhere, there have been times in my life when I thought I was INTP because of profiles and test results, and also INFJ. Type tests are challenging for me because it is easy to see through to the answers and spin the results however one wants.

I encountered a meme tonight that said, "what if there really was no MBTI and we can act however we want." Interesting.