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It always comes down to mental illness

Dylan Quick, the 20-year-old accused of going on a stabbing rampage yesterday-injuring 14 people at Lone Star Community College in Texas-should settle the gun control/violence debate, once and for all.

That won't happen, of course, because people who want to restrict personal freedoms will still turn a blind eye to the obvious: After years of America destroying its mental health care system, leaving it in ruins, as a national disgrace, cases of undiagnosed and untreated mental illness are to blame for the horrific episodes of violence that have made headlines and wrongly fueled gun control legislation.

This is true for Jared Lee Loughner, who shot Congressman Gabrielle Giffords in Tucson, Arizona. It is true for James Holmes, the man accused of murdering 12 people in a Colorado movie theatre. It is true for Adam Lanza, the man who murdered 20 children and 6 adults at the Sandy Hook Elementary School in Connecticut.

When legislators dally with measures targeted at guns or knives, instead of the very ill folks who sometimes use them to hurt others, they sow the seeds of tomorrow's tragedies.

Dylan Quick reportedly fantasized about killing people by stabbing them since he was a child. He reportedly walked around wearing gloves, even in warm weather, clutching stuffed animals.

I believe it will turn out that Mr. Quick, like the rest of the recent perpetrators of mass violence, fell through the colossal cracks in our decrepit system. A system of antiquated psychiatric facilities, understaffed community mental health centers and insurance companies hell-bent on restricting mental health care resources in a disproportionate fashion, compared to those targeted at other illnesses, and one which is a shameful show of prejudice towards the afflicted.

Anyone who now advocates limiting public access to knives of one kind or another, including the kind allegedly used by Mr. Quick, is either hopelessly misguided or a charlatan looking to make political points from this latest tragedy.

When America allowed third-party insurers to decide how to appropriate mental health care resources, like wolves at chicken coops, the seeds of the tragedies in Arizona and Colorado and Connecticut and, now, Texas were being sown.

When American psychiatrists decided to allow the American Psychiatric Association to coax so many in my profession out of their role as expert therapists who also prescribe medicines and into the role of "medication" doctors seeing patients for ten minutes, the seeds of these tragedies were being sown.

When state legislators and public health officials decided that shutting down state hospitals and financially choking community mental health centers nearly to death was okay, the seeds of these tragedies were being sown.

And when state and federal legislators dally with meaningless measures targeted at guns or knives, instead of the very ill folks who sometimes use them to hurt others, they sow the seeds of tomorrow's tragedies.

There's a reason why investigators and prosecutors and reporters and the public have such a hard time understanding the motives of men like Loughner, Holmes, Lanza and, if reports are true, Quick. It's because their motives are shrouded in the irrational thoughts born of mental illness, often in its most aggressive incarnation-psychosis.

Take all the guns away.

Take all the knives away.

The number of victims of murders with no apparent motive-born of under-treated, poorly treated or untreated mental illness-will be reduced not one bit.

Because there will still be cars, and poisons, and hammers, and axes that can be used to inflict horrible injuries. The worst episode of school violence, back in 1927, claimed the lives of 38 children, and it involved explosives, not guns or knives.

Leaders either fix things, do nothing or harm needed efforts. Those who would control weapons, instead of mental illness, are in the third category.

Dr. Keith Ablow is a psychiatrist and member of the Fox News Medical A-Team. Dr. Ablow can be reached at info@keithablow.com.

I didn't quote you? I don't think you and I missed each others points at all. I quoted lancet98. Or I thought I did...?

Quoting Carpy:

You appaerntly missed my point as well. I am the one saying that we can not just lock them up, as some seem to want.

Quoting DestinyHLewis:

You missed my point entirely. I am well versed in how this works. Thanks.

Quoting lancet98:

THe answer is that you don't 'lock someone up' - you require outpatient or inpatient treatment, and you discharge them from a hospital with a mandatory medication plan that they are required to follow, or they get rehospitalized.

Let's face something realistic for just one second here. Some people are too irrational and sick to realize how irrational and sick they are. They will NEVER accept treatment willingly, BECAUSE they are irrational.

But they don't need to be locked up any more than you or me, IF they are diagnosed early and kept on medication. They can be treated in the community the majority of the time.

James Holmes and Mr Quick aren't REALLY occupying some grey area here between 'psychological difficulties' and 'problems of daily living'. They were obviously and clearly mentally ill for YEARS. They were threatening violence and had delusional thoughts for a long time.

These aren't little subtle "indications", people, this is like OBVIOUS.

Further, there is an AVERAGE of ten years from onset of symptoms to diagnosis, with schizophrenia. If you don't diagnose or treat 80 or 90% of people with schz for that long, you're going to have a handful of people become violent as they deteriorate.

The REAL answer is that if someone is diagnosed with a psychotic disorder - require treatment.

Stop discharging them from hospitals if they refuse medication- we have laws on the books that allows a judge to order medication - we just don't follow our own laws.

Working on a Monster java. I hate coffee but for some reason love them.

Quoting DestinyHLewis:

Lol. Starbucks baby!

Quoting Carpy:

Sorry, not awake yet

Quoting DestinyHLewis:

I didn't quote you? I don't think you and I missed each others points at all. I quoted lancet98. Or I thought I did...?

Quoting Carpy:

You appaerntly missed my point as well. I am the one saying that we can not just lock them up, as some seem to want.

Quoting DestinyHLewis:

You missed my point entirely. I am well versed in how this works. Thanks.

Quoting lancet98:

THe answer is that you don't 'lock someone up' - you require outpatient or inpatient treatment, and you discharge them from a hospital with a mandatory medication plan that they are required to follow, or they get rehospitalized.

Let's face something realistic for just one second here. Some people are too irrational and sick to realize how irrational and sick they are. They will NEVER accept treatment willingly, BECAUSE they are irrational.

But they don't need to be locked up any more than you or me, IF they are diagnosed early and kept on medication. They can be treated in the community the majority of the time.

James Holmes and Mr Quick aren't REALLY occupying some grey area here between 'psychological difficulties' and 'problems of daily living'. They were obviously and clearly mentally ill for YEARS. They were threatening violence and had delusional thoughts for a long time.

These aren't little subtle "indications", people, this is like OBVIOUS.

Further, there is an AVERAGE of ten years from onset of symptoms to diagnosis, with schizophrenia. If you don't diagnose or treat 80 or 90% of people with schz for that long, you're going to have a handful of people become violent as they deteriorate.

The REAL answer is that if someone is diagnosed with a psychotic disorder - require treatment.

Stop discharging them from hospitals if they refuse medication- we have laws on the books that allows a judge to order medication - we just don't follow our own laws.

You can't, and herein lies the problem. They need to do something, and then often wind up in prison instead of receiving treatment. Not everyone needs to be locked up either, but many need treatment. Often the mentally ill are not goid judges of their own well-being, so someone else needs to see it. But if they are adults, they need to commit themselves. It's a confusing situation.

I for one have the idea that he was incorrectly diagnosed, if he was diagnosed as only having Aspergers, at the time of the tragedy.

We don't really know what diagnoses he had or when those diagnoses were given. At some point fairly soon after the shooting, one relative, perhaps his brother, is supposed to have said Adam Lanza had 'autism or aspergers or a personality disorder'.

Most of the media translated that at first to 'autism' and then very quickly, the media shifted to saying that for definite sure, Adam Lanza had aspergers.

Adam Lanza's behavior on the day of the tragedy suggests very very strongly that the relative either didn't tell the whole story or didn't know the whole story.

But keep in mind what the relative DID SAY - 'aspergers or autism or a personality disorder' - to me it sounds like the relative had zero knowledge of his brother's medical history or of such diagnoses in general. Either that or he was avoiding saying what he actually really knew.

Mrs. Lanza's comments a week before the tragedy, that she felt she was 'losing' Adam, the lack of contact her son had with his father and brother, as well as Adam's extensive notebooks and spreadsheets on mass shootings(suggests delusional irrational thinking), and his increasing extreme isolation(which also suggests his mother was losing control of him), plus her divorce, and her rejection of the school's recommendations for Adam(given the description of Mrs Lanza I'd expect her to be in a severe state of denial), and more than anything, Adam's shooting up the school, even the pictures of him, all point toward Adam having something other than Aspergers.

Further, it is not rare for an individual to be diagnosed with aspergers and later be diagnosed with a psychotic disorder - it is common enough that it is built into the diagnostic procedure for schizophrenia in fact.

It is common enough that I've run into a lot of this happening, without actually making an effort to do seek out such case. And it often happens at about Adam Lanza's age.

A fair number of those people diagnosed with aspergers and later diagnosed with a psychotic disorder, probably never had aspergers and were misdiagnosed in the first place.

It's easy for me to picture a prodrome (early stages) of a psychotic disorder being misdiagnosed as aspergers...there would in fact be a built-in bias towards doing so and this sure wouldn't be the first time.

Quoting futureshock:

Where did anyone get the idea that Adam Lanza was undiagnosed?

It is true for Adam Lanza, the man who murdered 20 children and 6 adults at the Sandy Hook Elementary School in Connecticut.

Unfortunately, you cannot force people to get treatment for their mental illness. Yes, you can try to have them committed, but it is only for about 72 hours, then a judge will either lengthen the stay or let them go home. Even IN the hospital, you cant force them to take their medications.

Unless you want to round up everyone with a mental illness and lock them away somewhere, there is no way to treat everyone.

Due to the cuts from the govt, even state hospitals no longer keep people long term. More and more state hospitals are shutting down, putting more and more ill people on the streets, who then end up in jail and then back on the street. It's a never ending cycle for these folks.

Even with the ones who take their meds, they start getting better and decide their meds arent needed any more. Guess what happens then? They decomp, get sicker than before, go to a hospital, go to a facility to get them stabilized back on their meds. They may do well for a while, but, they will repeat the behaviours.

People need to realize that it is not as easy as they think to have someone committed.

Quoting rfurlongg:

Well said muslimahpj.

Quoting muslimahpj:

Unfortunately, you cannot force people to get treatment for their mental illness. Yes, you can try to have them committed, but it is only for about 72 hours, then a judge will either lengthen the stay or let them go home. Even IN the hospital, you cant force them to take their medications.

Unless you want to round up everyone with a mental illness and lock them away somewhere, there is no way to treat everyone.

Due to the cuts from the govt, even state hospitals no longer keep people long term. More and more state hospitals are shutting down, putting more and more ill people on the streets, who then end up in jail and then back on the street. It's a never ending cycle for these folks.

Even with the ones who take their meds, they start getting better and decide their meds arent needed any more. Guess what happens then? They decomp, get sicker than before, go to a hospital, go to a facility to get them stabilized back on their meds. They may do well for a while, but, they will repeat the behaviours.

I for one have the idea that he was incorrectly diagnosed, if he was diagnosed as only having Aspergers, at the time of the tragedy.

We don't really know what diagnoses he had or when those diagnoses were given. At some point fairly soon after the shooting, one relative, perhaps his brother, is supposed to have said Adam Lanza had 'autism or aspergers or a personality disorder'.

Most of the media translated that at first to 'autism' and then very quickly, the media shifted to saying that for definite sure, Adam Lanza had aspergers.

Adam Lanza's behavior on the day of the tragedy suggests very very strongly that the relative either didn't tell the whole story or didn't know the whole story.

But keep in mind what the relative DID SAY - 'aspergers or autism or a personality disorder' - to me it sounds like the relative had zero knowledge of his brother's medical history or of such diagnoses in general. Either that or he was avoiding saying what he actually really knew.

Mrs. Lanza's comments a week before the tragedy, that she felt she was 'losing' Adam, the lack of contact her son had with his father and brother, as well as Adam's extensive notebooks and spreadsheets on mass shootings(suggests delusional irrational thinking), and his increasing extreme isolation(which also suggests his mother was losing control of him), plus her divorce, and her rejection of the school's recommendations for Adam(given the description of Mrs Lanza I'd expect her to be in a severe state of denial), and more than anything, Adam's shooting up the school, even the pictures of him, all point toward Adam having something other than Aspergers.

Further, it is not rare for an individual to be diagnosed with aspergers and later be diagnosed with a psychotic disorder - it is common enough that it is built into the diagnostic procedure for schizophrenia in fact.

It is common enough that I've run into a lot of this happening, without actually making an effort to do seek out such case. And it often happens at about Adam Lanza's age.

A fair number of those people diagnosed with aspergers and later diagnosed with a psychotic disorder, probably never had aspergers and were misdiagnosed in the first place.

It's easy for me to picture a prodrome (early stages) of a psychotic disorder being misdiagnosed as aspergers...there would in fact be a built-in bias towards doing so and this sure wouldn't be the first time.

Quoting futureshock:

Where did anyone get the idea that Adam Lanza was undiagnosed?

It is true for Adam Lanza, the man who murdered 20 children and 6 adults at the Sandy Hook Elementary School in Connecticut.

Send me email updates about messages I've received on the site and the latest news from The CafeMom Team.
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