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I don't know if I have posted this under the right category, but it seemed appropriate. Before everyone jumps all over my ass I'd just like to say I've never been much of a person to believe in most Holistic remedies and I don't believe I can cure myself with green tea or sleeping under a pyramid and I don't believe in the mystical healing powers of quartz crystals.

Now, I want to know what people's experiences have been with acupuncture, yoga and some of the other holistic treatments has been. I plan to take up acupuncture soon, mostly cause I think it'll be fun, and I've done it once years ago for something totally unrelated and as a skeptic was surprised it actually seemed to work. Eastern medicines have been around for over 5000 years so I don't discredit them. I certainly can't see any harm in trying many of them.

So, that said I am interested in hearing stories and opinions. I'm not interested hearing about a bunch of baseless claims of various snake oils peddled to desperate people for outrageous prices. Just the basics. Who's tried acupuncture, yoga, massage and what benefits do you find from your collective experiences?

Eastern medicines have been around for over 5000 years so I don't discredit them. I certainly can't see any harm in trying many of them.

Hmm, just a reminder: Always always discuss any and all holistic plans with your infectious disease doctor, *especially* if you are on antiretrovirals! This is especially crucial to remember if you ever consider Chinese herbs, Ayurveda herbs, etc. I can't stress this enough!!!! I know I'm running my mouth here but you need to know there's medical acupuncture and sham/scheister acupuncture. I don't mean to scare you, but read more here:

I did all the "alternative" therapies back when I was first diagnosed in the early 90's... I mean, what else was there to do back then? My HIV specialist at the time hooked me up with one of the top acupuncturists in Manhattan (I've even seen him give interviews on CNN) and my private insurance even paid his fees because he was also a licensed MD and he billed it under some other code so they'd pay... unethical I guess but whatever. He was gay and treated many HIV patients and seemed to focus his therapies on the digestive track. I actually enjoyed the experience at the time, though I only stuck with it about a year or 2. I also committed to a major therapy program that involved blue green algae, which was kind of in vogue at the time. It was rather expensive though, and REALLY caused you to have some nasty, smelly farts. Then years later I also was going some Chinese herb type stuff but I think it was actually derived from some type of shrubbery grown in France.

Anyway, once PI's came out I pretty much bailed on spending so much time and energy on all of this. I mean, I was spending massive amounts of money monthly at the nutritionist stores... easily exceeded $150 and that was over a decade ago at those prices. Now all I take is one multi-vitamin per day and some thing that gives the good type of natural oils that is in fish. Plus, like allopathicholisti just mentioned there are more interactions to consider these days once you're on HAART, and as I already throw back 20 pills/day and inject myself with fuzeon.

I've tried yoga too, though only briefly and it was just a class at my gym. I'm horribly inflexible and always have been, so I didn't enjoy it. I've had massages too, but during spa indulgences. I'd do them more often if I could afford it.

Actually, here in Austin the Wright House which focuses on Wellness provides all of these services free or at next to zero cost. I think I have to pay $3 a visit for the accupuncture and nothing for massage.

One friend says he's been doing the acupunture and he claims it has helped with all of his digestive problems.

I don't blame you for dropping all the holistic stuff once something tangible came along. For me, I just don't see any harm in giving this a try since it will cost me almost nothing.

LOL, yoga I'm not all that interested in. I can't sit still for two minutes or focus worth a damn. Plus, I'm totally uncordinated so I doubt I'll be trying that.

Actually, here in Austin the Wright House which focuses on Wellness provides all of these services

Good. You can ask them to numb the acupoints with thumb pressure before the needle goes in. If you're brand new to acupuncture this is my biggest suggestion because it really does help a lot. another option for acu-newbies is auricular (ears only) acupuncture, so if they offer that too, ask about it

Well, I'll put my 2 cents in here. You may have seen my various references to acupuncture in other threads. I will attest to the fact that it does something. I am not going to say that it "works". Its not like western medicine where you take a pill and expect a certain outcome. It's correct to say that acupuncture is an alternative therapy. It is not correct to view acupuncture as something that brings relief on the same level to everyone. My partner has arthritic knee joints and acupuncture is not going to cure that...but it does help with the pain. My acupuncturist is currently working with MD's to try to bring acupuncture to emergency room treatment. Thats how serious he is. He is really good. His treatments are way more severe...intense.... than other acupuncturists I have had treatment from. So, not all acupuncturists are cut from the same cloth.I will recount one treatment ( I have had dozens) It was fairly early on in my treatments. I initially was being treated for pain. At one session the acupunctureist asked me how my bowel movements were. I dont remember if I had trouble with that at the time....but I do remember that the next day....much to my surprise...that I had the most beautiful stool that I have ever seen. It was almost a revelation.Edited to add:If you are afraid of needles acupuncture may not be for you. I luckily have no problem with it...and do not have any pain during the treatment, but when the needles go in it can be really intense.

Holistic remedies don't cure, it helps the body to heal itself. Chinese medicine (CM) broke up the word disease, into dis - ease. The yin and yang is unbalanced, accupunture seeks to just balance that. CM interest itself in knowing the cause of the pain, while western medicine (WM) treat the pain. That is why the main words in CM are regulate and hormonize.

' I certainly can't see any harm in trying many of them 'Young man when you play with fire, there is a risk that you may burn your fingers. If you are taking meds please don't try taking chinese herbs !! There had been death caused by this 'harmless ' looking chinese tea to slim because there was a misinterpretation of certain herbs.

bear60 : when you refer to arthritic knee, one needs to know the physiology of the knee which consist of different parts. You add the word 'arthritic ' mainly caused by crystalization of amino acid which accupunture can't help at all ; other than to dampen the pains which is nerves.

I sincerely hope i could bring fore some understanding here of CM , and not felt like i am speaking some kind of foreign chinese language.

I have done yoga for years. I found it helps to calm me, provides a good work out if done using harder poses, and it does help to balance my body, especially digestive issues. I like the Total Yoga Series.

I also go to an acupuncturist who has a degree in TCM (traditional Chinese medicine). She was a RN for years then became interested in holistic meds, and went back to school.

She uses Guasha on me instead of using needles. Gausha follows the same meridian points as needling, only using pressure. Here is a link: http://www.guasha.com/

I have found it has helped with nausea/ belly issues, increased energy, and has helped my body to heal with respiratory problems.

I have never used herbs because I am fearful of an interaction with my hiv meds. My ID doctor knows all about the TCM treatments, and the TCM practitioner sends my ID doctor updates.

Chinese medicine also focuses greatly on diet. I really like this book: Healing with Whole Foods by Paul Pitchford.

My personal opinion is that integrative medicine is the best choice for dealing with chronic health problems. Make sure they complement each other, and both practitioners know about what each other is doing with the patient.Christine

i am newly diag. so am in that terrible denial bargining etc rollycoaster emotionally tough time grasping straws, afraid of meds, not on any yet, will go on at 350tcells anyway

i have heard so many things are helpful, but none replace haart, but here is what i have heard first hand helps different individuals, and i looked up every one on google scholar and there are peer reviewed science to suggest it may help a bit, but wouldnt stop sickness or death only haart can do that but here is what i have heard, i am not saying these will do great thing but they could do small bits of good

but only haart can save life, perhaps one of these can extend a bit...

holistic approcch [the science possibly behind it] --- in brackets

hot showers and jacuzzis [this activates, heat shock protein, not sure, look it up in google and wikipedia seems like heat shock protein has huge functions it is like inducing a artificial fever in a local tissue and that helps some way? or moving lymph fluid around] ,

selenium [various good reason] with or without aspirin [it is strong anti inflamitory, anti oxidant has many cytokine factors effects],

yoga [the immune sys doesnt have pump so moving fluids around helps, the virus is 20 times more likely to infect cd4 in node as opposed to while it is flowing in blood so if you sqeeze the nodes may have effect], massaging nodes [see above, one friend swears by this], massage [see above],

trampoline mini or running [anything that gets lymph fluid moving cant be bad can be good,i met a guy who swears by it, but he did it an hour a day, has anyone seen him in nyc, he was on the trapoline at a gay expo ten years ago] ,

green tea [i felt better and there are recently discovered anti hiv chemicals in it, but is it strong enough, they are studying it, does anyone know if it has caffine, maybe that was why i felt good drinking it],

inversions -- head stands, feet way above head, feet up wall head lower [this is just yoga and helps more lymph fluids around may help a bit]

tonic water [quinine look it up on google scholar peer reviewed science]

nicocinamide [also works for TB according to science papers]

please add your favorite balm or help

haart can save life, perhaps one of these can extend a bit... haart gives you 20 years or more maybe 10 or 15 years min maybe 25 or 30years, some of these may stretch that a bit

there is evidence that suppressing the immune system in hiv disease would delay progression to aids a bit, that can be done by alcohol, sun exposure, etc but dosing and tolerance etc are very difficult

I think there are a lot of steps one can take to try to improve how the body deals with HIV but my suggestions are run-of-the-mill ones: make sure to eat right and stay hydrated, exercise regularly, using both muscle-producing exercise (e.g., free weights, multi-function exercise stations, etc.) and aerobic (e.g., jogging, brisk walking, bicycling, etc.), curtail use of alcohol and other drugs (author's admission: I smoke pot...), and take a good multivitamin/mineral supplement, among other tactics.

I don't know anything about using olive oil as a topical application, or hot showers/baths, or other alternative/complementary treatments. I'm pretty skeptical so tend not to try other treatments but if you want to go ahead and do it (as long as it's not potentially harmful, of course!)!! The human mind can play a large role in how well we deal with HIV and other health issues. As long as you're not being ripped off by a con artist (or endangering yourself, like I said) try whatever seems reasonable to you. If it can't hurt then it might do you some good.

That said, if you are still dealing with raw emotions as a newly diagnosed poz person don't get carried away looking for a cure that's not there. Believe me, there are a lot of unscrupulous so and sos out there who claim to have cures for all sorts of diseases and make money from the fear and desperation of others. If there was a cure for HIV illness we would all know about it.

Good luck!

Boo

Logged

String up every aristocrat!Out with the priests and let them live on their fat!

trampoline mini or running [anything that gets lymph fluid moving cant be bad can be good,i met a guy who swears by it, but he did it an hour a day, has anyone seen him in nyc, he was on the trapoline at a gay expo ten years ago] ,

please add your favorite balm or help

hmm, i think his name is edward lieb - correct me if i'm wrong.... anyway mini trampoline can also be very helpful to constipation-like problems and yes running or skip rope are comparable. think of lightly shaking a carton of milk (your body is the milk carton)

and yeah to a lot of what boo said - the basic stuff mom told you when you were a kid basically! that's the other thing - holistic health is so broad, a lot of it falls under stuff your mama told you to do, serious therapies which only licensed folks can carry out (e.g. infusion therapy) and everything in between including the semi-esoteric stuff but hey some (but not all) of that stuff works for some people. I have hit & miss successs there. I'd say integrative health is superb in the areas of wellness/prevention and symptom treatment and as christine said it's good for chronic stuff too

i am newly diag. so am in that terrible denial bargining etc rollycoaster emotionally tough time grasping straws, afraid of meds, not on any yet, will go on at 350tcells anyway

i have heard so many things are helpful, but none replace haart, but here is what i have heard first hand helps different individuals, and i looked up every one on google scholar and there are peer reviewed science to suggest it may help a bit, but wouldnt stop sickness or death only haart can do that but here is what i have heard, i am not saying these will do great thing but they could do small bits of good

but only haart can save life, perhaps one of these can extend a bit...

holistic approcch [the science possibly behind it] --- in brackets

hot showers and jacuzzis [this activates, heat shock protein, not sure, look it up in google and wikipedia seems like heat shock protein has huge functions it is like inducing a artificial fever in a local tissue and that helps some way? or moving lymph fluid around] ,

selenium [various good reason] with or without aspirin [it is strong anti inflamitory, anti oxidant has many cytokine factors effects],

yoga [the immune sys doesnt have pump so moving fluids around helps, the virus is 20 times more likely to infect cd4 in node as opposed to while it is flowing in blood so if you sqeeze the nodes may have effect], massaging nodes [see above, one friend swears by this], massage [see above],

trampoline mini or running [anything that gets lymph fluid moving cant be bad can be good,i met a guy who swears by it, but he did it an hour a day, has anyone seen him in nyc, he was on the trapoline at a gay expo ten years ago] ,

green tea [i felt better and there are recently discovered anti hiv chemicals in it, but is it strong enough, they are studying it, does anyone know if it has caffine, maybe that was why i felt good drinking it],

inversions -- head stands, feet way above head, feet up wall head lower [this is just yoga and helps more lymph fluids around may help a bit]

tonic water [quinine look it up on google scholar peer reviewed science]

nicocinamide [also works for TB according to science papers]

please add your favorite balm or help

haart can save life, perhaps one of these can extend a bit... haart gives you 20 years or more maybe 10 or 15 years min maybe 25 or 30years, some of these may stretch that a bit

there is evidence that suppressing the immune system in hiv disease would delay progression to aids a bit, that can be done by alcohol, sun exposure, etc but dosing and tolerance etc are very difficult

please add your favorite balm or help

please add your favorite balm or help

please add your favorite balm or help

Hmm, These are interesting, some I've never heard of, but now I love my hot tub even more. Did that article mention it's even better with several good martinis? ; )

Olive oil seems to get good reviews all the way round and I try to incorporate that.

Green tea I love, but I'm not sure how great it is for me since I throw in one of those Equal packets everytime

Selenium is a recent one I started and I think from that recent study it sounds worthwhile. I've been taking it for a week and noticed I have more energy and feeling better. Not sure if that's a coincidence or what.

Anyways, thanks for these different ideas and stuff I'd never heard of. My t cells were at 354 and like you I'd said at 350 or below I'd start meds. My doctor advised against it so I am trying some of these other things until then to see if I have any benefit.

I used the services provided by the Wellness Center when I lived in Austin...massage, chiropractor, accupuncture and Reiki. For me, Reiki had the biggest impact on my health. I eventually took some classes on it and now do three to four sessions daily on myself. My suggestion is to try different services and different providers of each service until you find what works for you. Everyone is different, so what works for me may not work for you. I needed to take responsibilty of this disease, instead of wanting someone else to do it for me, and Reiki gives me this mental edge.

I also use hot/cold showers (hydrotherapy) on a daily basis. This supposedly helps with the lymph system and boosts the immune system.

I also use herbs and teas to help boost the immune system. I am very open with my doc about what I take. I only add to my regime every four month. This way I can find out, through blood-work, if anything I am doing is contraindicating my meds.

Thanks for your input. Yeah, I went down and signed up at the Wright House Wellness Center. It's a great group of people and I don't know why I haven't taken advantage of some of their great stuff yet. I guess I'm just lazy ; )

You can go to reiki.org and find more info. Sift through it; take out what works for you, throw the rest away. I was impressed that anyone and everyone can be attuned to use Reiki...and that although it is very spiritual, it is not religious.

been doing yoga since I hurt my back over 20 years ago. My back does not bother me anymore. Everyone should try yoga. just find a few stretches or poses you like . It only takes a few minutes everyday.i just started meditating again.

Thanks for your input. Yeah, I went down and signed up at the Wright House Wellness Center. It's a great group of people and I don't know why I haven't taken advantage of some of their great stuff yet. I guess I'm just lazy ; )

Well to help you, think about a few things.

HIV negative people have to pay a $pretty penny$ to get holistic health services!

With my ASO, they collect attendance reports and feedback reports. These reports help determine if xyz services are worthy of receiving continued funding. Low attendance = nobody cares = let's not fund xyz program anymore.

You can meet new friends. One guy gave me his number and we went to Starbucks (ughh) twice. (He likes Starbucks, I could live without it)

Part of me feels a little guilty taking advantage of those services because I know others less fortuante need them first. Another part of me doesn't want to deal with being around HIV+ people all the time.

I've no doubt it's a good place to make new friends as well. I may do some voluteer stuff there.

Don't know why I'm procrastinating on it. Another part, I think, is that none of the other improvements I've made in my life thus far have done anything for my numbers which continue to dwindle away ; (

Right now my focus on quitting smoking, but that may be another reason to schedule some accupuncture and massage for stress relief eh?

i mentioned before generally speaking the anti-addictions protocol is "auricular" acupuncture which means acu on the ears. if you have sensitive ears the specialists can help with that. you can google it or maybe wikipedia. being that wright house is a wellness center they might even have a quit-smoking support group of some kind, so ask when you're ready and good luck in quitting smoking.

I am quite susrprised that you Alex (allopath) after your sixth post; you yet to highlight the Yin and Yang Philosophy, the two most fundamental concepts in CM. 'The Yellow Emperor's Classics of Internal Medicine' says : " a good physician who has mastered the techniqe of diagnosis will examine the patient's colour and take his pulse and he will classify all symptoms into yin and yang as the first step in making a diagnosis ".

Yin and Yang give birth to the five elements : wood, fire, earth, metal and water. WOOD- liver, tendons, eyes FIRE- heart, blood vessels, tongue EARTH- spleen, flesh, mouth METAL- lungs, skin, hair, nose WATER- kidneys, bones, ears. This five elements theory consists of four laws governing them. 1st - law of production (one organ can produce another, eg. - wood produces fire, fire produces earth .............) 2nd- law of control (one organ can controls another ; eg. - wood controls earth, earth controls water............)3rd- law of attack (one organ may abuse its power of control and attack another organ ) 4th - law of resisting control /rebellion - like the employee resisting control of the boss -- thus bringing about deficiency and excess in the organs.

i mentioned before generally speaking the anti-addictions protocol is "auricular" acupuncture which means acu on the ears. if you have sensitive ears the specialists can help with that. you can google it or maybe wikipedia. being that wright house is a wellness center they might even have a quit-smoking support group of some kind, so ask when you're ready and good luck in quitting smoking.

Hey Alex,

The more I thought about it the more I thought well if I'm in accupuncture sessions or massage or yoga or whatever, that's time I can't be smoking. Although I hope they don't have incense burning to throw me off track ; )

Oh, if I had to go to a support group for anti smokers I'd probalby go berzerk. I'm not a fan of support groups. The ones I've been too have been a bunch of dysfunctional people I got nothing in common with. That would not work for me.

However, some of your thoughts have kind of got me to thinking I may give them a jingle and see about acu. for stress reduction as an overall life benefit, maybe help for smoking too.

Wesley...I had acupuncture when I quit smoking and I still needed to control my mind....which kept saying things like: "Oh you can have just ONE cigarette." "It wont hurt you to have just ONE cigarette." So even if the acupuncture helped, it sure didnt get rid of those thoughts. I have managed to control those thoughts by staying away from places that are full of temptation and by redirecting the thoughts when they do come up. Like: " Ok, this thought will go away now." "I'll think about how much I like sex instead".