Interesting reply obviously as I stated the reason for the repost was the google alert and the wiki page I just found recently. I thought the wiki article (I have checked most of the article references and they are reliable) maybe of interest to those that had shown an interest or made comments about Rhee TKD Australia on this thread, positive or negative (as in your case Mr VDJ).

Skimming back on your posts “Tiger Killer” you seem to always have an underlying condescending tone, which if that mindset works for you, you are a successful and your life is moving forward then fine. However if you can indulge me by please advising your rank, school and Master to help me try to understand where you are coming from my friend. I am not taking the p-ss (as we say in OZ) or want a flame off, I would genuinely like to try to comprehend the angle of your martial arts beliefs, misguided or not in regards to your posted comments/views on RHEE TKD & Master Rhee Chong Chul.

To be fair, I advise - I am a member of the Rhee Taekwondo (Australia), my Master Instructor is Master Rhee Chong Chul and my rank is Sabum (Black belt teacher). Robb is my real name, this year is my 19th year of continuos training as a Rhee Taekwondo student. I studied a few different martial arts, striking and throwing styles (Japanese, Korean & Western) before making an informed choice to join RHEE TKD many years ago and have never been happier.

“A wise man can learn more from a foolish question than a fool can learn from a wise answer.” Bruce Lee

Quote: Interesting reply obviously as I stated the reason for the repost was the google alert and the wiki page I just found recently. I thought the wiki article (I have checked most of the article references and they are reliable) maybe of interest to those that had shown an interest or made comments about Rhee TKD Australia on this thread,.......Cheers.

Sir I found the link very informative. Thanks again for posting it. If you are able to answer these questions, please do. You can also feel free to PM me if you prefer.

When did Master Rhee leave the ITF/Gen Choi? Do you know why? What ITF rank certificates does he have? When did he get 8th degree? Why has he stayed an 8th, as obviously he would be a very deserving 9th degree, given his extensive experience & history as a true pioneer?Does he keep in contact with GM Young Ku Yun? When & why did he leave the ITF/General Choi & what was his ITF ranks? Who is considered senior of the 2?

G’Day ITFunity , no problems as you have always seemed genuine I will share and try to best answer your queries from my knowledge and research of my fellow RTKD senior members via PM. I won’t post due nature of nature of subject as do not want to be disrespectful to any Masters. Cheers

Master Rhee, Chong Chul was a member of the ITF up until the late 70's. He certainly wasn't a member in 1980. His rank with the ITF was 6th Dan. He was apparently dismissed from the ITF as he was not willing to pay his dues. Basically he was accused of keeping all the money for himself and did not send any memberships fees or Dan certificate fees to the ITF. He was of lower rank than his brother Rhee, Chong Hyup who actually appears on the ITF plaque (bottom left hand figure). He received his 8th dan in about 1984 and has a WTF or Kukiwon 8th Dan Certificate.

GM Yun and Rhee, Chong Chul do not keep in contact as far as I am aware as they were never very friendly toward each other. Yun was one of the other ITF pioneers in Australia and was the one who Gen Choi supported as Rhee did not pay his dues to the ITF.

I know both gentlemen and I can tell you that they were not members of each other's fan clubs.

GM Yun left the ITF in about 1989 to form Yun Jung Do. He was ITF 8th Dan at the time.

Seniority is as follows:Rhee was senior to Yun in the ITF when they were both members. However, Yun actually received his 8th Dan ITF, while Rhee Chong chul was only officially 6th Dan. Rhee, Chong Hyup is actually much senior to both of these men in time involved in TKD.

G’Day Sabum Steve, it’s been a long time, remember me Robb from Rhee we have spoken face to face on the Goldie a while ago. You are close enough on some of those details, but glaring issue is your view on Master Rhee leaving the ITF, the slanderous claims of with holding fees aimed at character assassination are feeble, you know the state of flux the ITF as an organization was in - in the late 70’s most original Masters were estranged for many years before it was official they had to cut ties.

Master Rhee and most of the original Masters were forced to leave the ITF due to the severe pressure put on them by the ROK to disassociate himself from General Choi due to General Choi’s actions regarding the North Korea issue. Much politics make for great story telling but allows for those that are standing at the end rewrite from their point of view (those still in ITF), more so than the ones that had to walk away (as Master Rhee did).

My understanding is the fracturing of the Original Masters has now been retold different ways by all 3 of the ITF’s, Vienna, North Korea & Canada.

Excerpt from web page http://www.taekwondopioneers.com/grand_master.html referred to by ITFunity (in previous posts on this thread) written by Grand Master Choi CK________________________________________________________1981Promoted to 8th Degree Black Belt by Gen. Choi. Was a member of two I.T.F. Representatives in an attempt to merge with World Tae Kwon Do Federation [W.T.F.]. With deep regret, Master Choi dropped support for Gen. Choi because of his ties with North Korea. At this junction, South Korea was technically at war and had no diplomatic relations with North Korea._______________________________________________________

As such Master Rhee was first and foremost a South Korean Marine and had pledged his life long loyalty to the ROK before General Choi as a ROK representative hand picked him for the development of TKD.

You will never hear Master Rhee speak poorly of General Choi “The Father of Tae Kwon Do” as I am sure he and most of the original Masters understand the issue is more than just black and white. Master Rhee has never tried to rewrite what happened when he was forced to leave General Choi’s ITF, not because he is at blame but because it was a dirty political affair between GM Choi & the ROK. Whether you Sabum Steve look upon your own promotion to 1st Dan by Master Rhee Chong Chul as a great honor or not you must morally remember were you came from. The new school you now preside over as ITF examiner is a break away of a break away of RHEE TKD as yourself are the product of a break away of a break away of RHEE TKD. Sabum Shane of Yin Yang TKD was a 1st Dan Sabum with RHEE TKD just 2 years ago and you promoted him to ITF 3rd Dan at the start of this year – that’s interesting.

It has been distasteful for me to note all above but was forced to as you made the silly call on Master Rhee’s honesty. Cheers my friend, step on a cane toad for me and enjoy a 4X, let the history be, it is not the domain of us juniors to try and rewrite it.

Your response clearly demonstrates that you have no idea of what I wrote. Go back and read it again and tell me if I was assassinating Mr Rhee's character. Whether true or not, whether you want to believe it or not, I have seen the letter suspending Mr Rhee. Now, whether I believe it or not is another story in itself.

Also, if you are going to espouse that you know something about me, where I come from, those associated with me, how they got there or where they come from, then please, please, please Robb get it right, as it just makes you look foolish and extremely ignorant otherwise.

Regards

Steven Luxmoore21 Years TKD16 Years in the ITF.Not the product of a break away of a break away.Not the Examiner of Shane Astwood (that prize goes to Mr Michael Muleta), who was not a 1st Dan 2 years ago (5 maybe)

And Mr. Luxmoore and my self are to very different people, he being obviously an Australian citizen and I am an American citizen. Robb, it seems that you are going to an extreme to legitimize your instructor, and I can really appreciate that. You think that I was personally attacking him as it was not the case. The site that I posted in my original post on this topic made NO MENTION of his connection to the ITF or Gen.Choi and it was not made clear until the thread had been brought back up to the forefront. The things that bothered me on the site were there was only a portion of the patterns being taught & the rapid advancement of students and the projection of what looked like he was the creator of a "New" type of TKD as it was obvious that it had Chang Hon roots.

Now to the meat and potataoes of what I was getting at waaaaaaaaaay back when this was a fresh thread. Rhee Chong Chul maybe a very gifted martial artists (I mentioned in my original post that he seemed to be very physically gifted), he maybe the ambassador of TKD sent to Austrailia by the General, all of that does not mean that I was wrong in viewing my opinion that it had all of the warning signs of McDoJang to me. All one has to do is look at the ATA to see that truth lies in what I am saying. Haeng Ung Lee was also an ITF member under the General, leaving the ITF for what I will assume are many of the same reasons that alot of the pioneers left for, he started ATA, with all good intentions I'm sure, but what the ATA has become is, IMO, a big national daycare center with very poor training practices. Again my opinion and experiences of what I have seen in the ATA. We all know that there are many instructors and dojangs from all kinds of orgs thru out the world that can fall into this category, do I know for certain that is the case of Rhee TKD in Austrailia, No ! I can only go by what information I come across on the net and people who train within it, or until (if ever) I make my way down under. I don't know why you are taking this so personally (as it seems to be to me that you are), if you are comfortable in your training and confident in what you have learned within your dojang will work in the street,then why do you care what I think ?

Gentlemen, To Robb and Chosun. You are the new guys on the block as far as forum participation. On occasion things flare up in the TKD threads. Thing get said. I would encourage you to be both cautious and gracious. You are guests here.