What a truly stupid thread, Not the OP's original question but all of the juvenile bickering over nothing. And praise for a man who is a so called "expert" but does nothing but push what is already known and yet folks just worship this guy. A 300gr XTP is the ultimate 44 mag SD load you know, yeah right. My wang is bigger than yours, really? Carry what you want, i happen to like the 357 SIG, is it better than rd X? Depends, all that really matters is that you can shoot it accurately under stress. Be it a 9 or 357 or 40/45, they all work, if you do your part.

I have a friend on the Tx DPS and he likes the .357SIG, but, he'd rather the 9mm or .40 strictly for the fact that 357SIG costs so much to practice with, whereas 9mm/40 is more affordable. As far as terminal performance, they're all happy with it.

I seriously doubt a hot 125gr 357 sig @1400fps is going to make any difference over a 155gr 40S&W @1300fps. I'll take a larger, heavier bullet going fast over a smaller/lighter bullet going a little faster. Really if anything its a wash, but the 40 is more versatile in loads and bullet weights. What evidence do you have showing the 357 sig as being any better?

Outdoor Hub mobile, the outdoor information engine

Been reading here for some time and thought Id post.
I used to carry a 45 acp and 44 mag back in the 80's
I never could understand why the one shot stats of the 357 was the best
The 9, 40, 45 and 357 sig are all lethal, would not feel under-gunned with either of them. and would not want to be shot by none of them or anything

If you look at paper ballistics or gel tests, there is not much difference.
But if you look at REAL WORLD results, or ask police who have used them, then there may be some difference.

The King of Kings the 357 magnum 4 inch revolver with either 125 Federal or Remington JHP? at 1450 fps

what did it having going for it?
.
and what makes the "lightning bolt effect"?

Good bullet expansion
Good penetration
and super sonic speeds

Bullet speed while going out of the end of a barrel it totally different that the speed of it going through a human body.

I think the "lightning bolt effect" is a combination of a bullet that has expanded and is still moving OVER the speed of sound while traveling through a attackers body.

a bullet that is still breaking the sound barrier while it is going through vital organs of the body. and the speed of sound is around 1100 fps

the combination of a good expanding bullet with at least a .140 sectional density and moving around 1400 fps from the muzzle seems to be the ticket.

This has PROVEN to work in REAL LIFE.

We know bullets start slowing down dramatically when they hit clothing and flesh.
a bullet has clothing, layers of fat and muscle to go through before reaching vital organs.
it would seem a good expanding bullet at 1350-1450 fps and enough sectional density will still have the sonic crack inside the vital organs.

Too little bullet sectional density and the bullet slows down to under the speed of sound before it hits vital organs, too little velocity and not enough momentum to have bullet keep hyper velocity into vital organs.

the 155 grain 40 caliber bullet has a sectional density around .140.
but the best 40 S&W can launch a 155 is at 1300 fps

Same for 9mm +p+ 124 at 1300 fps.

the bullet may stay hyper into the inch of so of fat and inch of muscle but not into the vital organs.
This all of course can change depending on the size of the person.

the 9mm +p+ 115 at 1400 fps. it has the velocity but the shorter bullet loses too much velocity too quick
Long bullet lose less velocity and penetrate deeper.

the 9mm +p+, 40 S&W and .45 acp can not get 1400 fps with a good expanding bullet that has a Sd of at least .140.
(not out of barrels of 4 to 4.5 inches)

the 357 sig can launch a 125 JHP at 1500 fps from a 4 inch barrel.

the 10mm can launch 155;s at 1500 fps.

44 magnum can get 180's to 1600 fps from a 6 inch bbl. but those bullets are mainly for large game hunting and will do little expansion of human attackers.

Also in defense of the 40 and 9mm I would say a 5 1/2 or 6 inch barrel 9mm firing Underwood 124 +p+ would reach close to 1400 fps or 40 SW 155 would also be around 1400 fps and would be better. (more rounds for the 9 and more caliber for the 40)

the 357 sig with a 5.5 or 6 inch would probably get 1650 fps, but too much velocity can down grade performance on soft bullets. a 9x25 may launch at 125 at 1700 fps from a 6 inch bbl but bullet may frag at impact.

the Legendary 357 mag with 125 jhp for 96% one shot stops may never be beaten, the Texas State police have a 100% success rate with the 357 sig, Virgina has like 99%
but of those, what are one shot stops?
the 125 gold dot by underwood at 1450-1500 fps
would surly be better than the Speer gold dot loads of 1350-1400 fps from 4 and 4.5 inch bbls

Today people are much bigger than 35-25 years ago
better stronger drugs (meth etc) also, it is safe to say the old 357 in today's world would never get 96% one shot stops on drugged out felons attackers. but who knows.

Like I said above the proof is there. not sure how many are one shot stops/ but if Texas has 100% success and another state 99% isn't that 99.5% avg?

many police agencies have records of shooting a attacker with 45 40 and 9mm unloading a whole magazine into them and they don't stop.

I'm sure as data is collected there will be some 357 fails.

As it stands now the success rate of the 357 sig is pretty high, and been around for many years in those agencies too. the real world proof is there if you look for it.

Bullet speed while going out of the end of a barrel it totally different that the speed of it going through a human body.

I think the "lightning bolt effect" is a combination of a bullet that has expanded and is still moving OVER the speed of sound while traveling through a attackers body.

a bullet that is still breaking the sound barrier while it is going through vital organs of the body. and the speed of sound is around 1100 fps

the combination of a good expanding bullet with at least a .140 sectional density and moving around 1400 fps from the muzzle seems to be the ticket.

This has PROVEN to work in REAL LIFE.

I tend to agree with you, scotty. There's a convergence of bullet design/velocity in handguns that create an ever-evolving window of effectiveness.

In the early 1900s the .38 Special didn't get the job done for the military so the .45ACP was developed, which still works to this day.

In the 1920s the .38 Super was created and from what I can tell it's still a credible (if expensive) self-defense caliber available in the 1911 platform. It seems to me that the .357sig is a bit more formidable with twice the ammo capacity, with the .38 Super having more bullet weight options available for those who reload.

In the 1930s the .38 Special had issues for LEO so the .357 Magnum was created and to this day is the standard by which all other handgun effectiveness is measured.

I'm no ballistics expert my any measurement but from what I can tell the .357 Magnum is the best single all-round handgun caliber for personal self-defense purposes if one doesn't consider magazine/gun capacity.

...In the early 1900s the .38 Special didn't get the job done for the military so the .45ACP was developed, which still works to this day...

Actually, primary historical sources show that the .45 Colt SAA's, that were hastily "un-mothballed" during the Philipine Insurrection, did no better against the Moros due to the pointy lead bullet used that usually zipped right through an adversary. Elmer Keith wrote of this.

Quote:

In the 1920s the .38 Super was created and from what I can tell it's still a
credible (if expensive) self-defense caliber available in the 1911 platform...

The .38 Super was designed as a better way to penetrate auto bodies as well as primitive 1st Gen body armour during the Gangster Era.

Quote:

In the 1930s the .38 Special had issues for LEO so the .357 Magnum was created
and to this day is the standard by which all other handgun effectiveness is measured.

The .38super is based off the .38acp.(same case dimensions) The .38acp predates the era of the notorious gangsters of the prohibition era by decades. The Colt 1900 could not handle the .38acp in original form (which was close to .38super) so they scaled it back. When the more robust 1911 came about they could go to the more powerful .38super.