My thanks to those great Bodhistava's Bradley Manning, Julian Assange, and all those on the board and membership of the Wikileaks team.

For those uninformed by the national media in the US..... Bradley Manning was a private who had access to a large trove of informations on the Afgan war from the US militaries side of things.IN other words....the truth of things.He through various means such as taking in Lady Gaga CD's, pretended he was listening to them at work, but rather downloaded files to them in blank form.He was subsequently arrested and is now imprisioned. As national media in the US rarely mentions him, other than just by name as source, this absence of note, leads me to believe (combined with the present climate in the US), he is most probably being tortured by various nonphysical means. If attention was brought to him such would not be allowed to occur. So I assume it is occuring as has occured to many many in Guantanamo's secret secret(not the main) prision, includeing to one who was a juvenial and is now standing trial.

The national media in the US's first response to this is to state very loudly and forcefully the concern this is jeopardizing the troops....even though very careful means of dessimation have been utilized to prevent specific names and individuals from being compromised by the leak.

Their secondary response is to state very forcefully....this is old news.

But this has impact from a political view as the American public ignorant and media controlled as they are, are not the target to stop this thing called the Afghan war.Wikileaks had also published prior a document from other sources referencing that the CIA of the US had found the European pubic/political opinion to be erodeing and every means must be employeed to bolster that and prevent the European coutries from pulling out support for this war. As this was critical for the wars continuance this being performed under the auspices of a NATO action.

Europe is the target for the release of this news and in Europe to a degree the censorship is not as blatent as in the US. So effect on public opinion can be made. IN the US as in most things like the false notions propogated by the propogandists/ national US media that Saddam Hussein was responsible for the attack on the world trade center and harbored Weapons of Mass destruction.....the truth for most will very gradually and eventually sink in. If Daniel Ellsberg released the pentagon papers in todays climate(a equilivent document this is) the very same response in the US by the US media would ensue with the two defenses mention above. But the facts cannot be denied and the US public eventually will get it...just not right now.

The papers themselves speak to very many human rights issues and probable war crimes. Most heinous perhaps is the inferal that a Polish contingent did in fact inspire and conduct a retribution attack of sorts for a prior attack upon them by killing what probably was 181 or so civilians. A incident very similiar by surface to what occured in a village in South Vietnam years ago...MiLai.

But there are many many more accounts of heinous deeds done in the interest of spreading democracy and freedom and destroying supposedly al quaeda, though perhaps in Afghanistan their numbers may only approximate the few hundreds.The drones, airattacks and on and on....civilians deaths, it appears are the result. ONe story is told of a Afghan official who the US helps support,(which is why it is in the documents) who rapes some civilians daughter. The father shows up demanding retribution. The official tells his bodyguard to kill the civilian. The bodyguard refused, the official shoots and kills the bodyguard and the father.

So with the enormous size and scope of the documents(and just several of these accounts of heinous deeds are mentioned here)....it becomes quite clear the US is supporting and aiding the wrong side in this thing, the side of the most evil doers. As they did in Chili El Salvador and many many other nations in a historical context in the past. This President Obama.....it appears same old same old. The US progressive community for those that may still have held a shred of hope...this about dashes it.The US adminstration is apparently pursueing and has pursued the same tact as did all other adminstrations in the past, to such information being spread. Assange has been requested to be detained by the US through Australia and their government(which they refused much to their credit) and any whistle blowers such as two journalist who spoke badly about Guantanamo....are refused entry to Guantanamo as result.

So thanks to all those that had a hand in it.May the American people be awoken to the fact...it is their govenment wearing the black hats generally around the world. It is them that seek dictators to advance their personal interests as opposed to democratic or self inspired nationalistic governmental rule.

I do not blame the US for everything, as I find claims for Hitsu Titsu genocide as result of the US actions mistakeingly being laid upon their door, the Sudan Somalia and others. But such actions do indeed create the climate where all may be blamed on the US and a audience for any claim thusly be found, as result.

Internationally they are becoming more and more perceived the evil. This cannot have good result.

To provide wells and water throughout the world if the US had wanted to approximate such a thing would have cost by most estimates 30-40 Billion dollars. To absolutely erradicate starvation and ultimate poverty would probably cost about 60 Billion. And the consequence of those things if they did or had done them.....the enemies of the US would have melted like cold ice cream on a sidewalk in summer...they would have no global support.

So for such a small amount they could have entirely eradicated the cause for US terrorism and at a very very small price comparitely. The war in Iraq and Afghanistan have exceeded in direct costs 1000 Billion at present is is stated. And they could have done great good.

That is the greatest tragedy of this thing.The gross stupidy of the peoples that run these things(and those that ignorantly buy into their story), have costs thousands upon thousands of total innocents lives. And for a small small comparitive amount, resulting in a great good(water for all and no starvation) their problem would totally have ceased to exist. The terrorists would have no support and thusly become seen for what they truly are....disillusioned ignorant people.

Thanks to those Bodhistavas Manning and Assange who help us see.

I am not a pacifist, hold not even one Bodhistava vow...but the ignorance in this thing is really truly incredible, beyond fathoming.

REad it and weep my dear friends read it and weep.

To add...and this may be construed as a attack of sorts and I being not necessarily a Buddhist may add to that perception....

Bodhisttava....if one is claiming such by training or inspiration, this to my opinion is not smiling to another at a check out stand or adding to a internet staqement or on facebook..."in the dharma" or some such. This is not about self indulgence meditating alone and wishing all others truly "got it".This has to be about if your government is really truly propogating evil deeds upon innocents...to really actually do something. We may be quite small as I am and do something in a very small ineffectual way. And we may say it is totally hopeless so big is this thing. So small are our lives and really we need to do other things of necessity so badly.

But my dear friends there is a misconception going around.It is that if we do not willfully intend a thing we do not suffer karmic effect. Certainly if we willfully intend and do participate in such things our karmic fault is much much deeper. But indeed my dear friends if the evil deed is so so great and we do absolutley nothing to work against, even though it is not intended by us or with our participation, we since this deed is so bad and large, even though our karmic fault be considered slight by means....the effect upon us will be great.

So weep and fear my friends in the US if you speak not out against this thing in some form, even very small form, as you will suffer. Those is Europe Australia and other places...it has become totally obvious this thing is totally corrupted you must tell your government to withdraw.

"This order considers that progress can be achieved more rapidly during a single month of self-transformation through terrifying conditions in rough terrain and in "the abode of harmful forces" than through meditating for a period of three years in towns and monasteries"....Takpo Tashi Namgyal.

An open mind is required with wikileaks, motivation and intent is key in looking at their material, particularly digital generational copies of scanned material. Internet full of fake stuff. The leaks in themselves are not that controversial, since war powers acts always take material that in peace time would have very low security designations and hype them to higher security levels. The information within is mostly reported in media anyway, nothing shocking contained inside, most people know wars are going not to well, and that civillian deaths have occured. Also another red flag would be wikileaks track record on protecting their whistle blowers and insiders sources, most investigative journalisim is done in ways as to protect sources, we have not seen this so far. Another red flag is that wikileaks probably is intelligence false leaks anyway, since cyber security and lockdown of web and government control and censorship is on the way, governments always need some example to point too for such acts. Wikileak will indeed fuel the need for tight control of free internet. Which makes me all the more curious about wikileaks ties to intelligence agencies. After all, a lot of hackers do government work also.

There are no links between wikileaks and governmental intelligence services other than the information used by whistleblowers within those organizations for purposes of tranparancy.

No less figures than Sy Hersh and Daniel Ellsberg have helped and completely supported Wikileaks. NO greater supporter in this field can there be Was Ellsberg then working for the government as well?

NO sorry that is total nonsense. The truth is not a negotiable item. Those are falsehoods spoke right here and now about wikileaks. Bradley Manning's way of getting caught involved a internet site and the hacking community. it in fact does not surprise me that the whole affair my be called into question, right here and now in this fashion, as the individual associated with the capture of Manning is well known in the internet community.So internet supporters of the government side of things may be found. Does their argument hold a bit of water....no it is quite a leaky bucket.

Donations to Bradley Mannings legal defense, (for "some" reason he is being kept in the kuwait not the US), subsequent to trial, can be found at Bradley Manning dot org.. That "some" reason for some reason spike the concern of torture for me....but that is just me.

Assange did indeed cancel a forum he was to attend in the US on the part basis of information of a confidential source Sy Hersh had received....he told Assange he must..."watch his back".Yes my dear friends Daniel Ellsberg was way way back the subject of attempts to terminate him by aspects of the US government it seems(Ellsberg is quite aware of this and speaks of it) and Assange prior to becomeing this famous was subject to arrest and perhaps worse.... at the inspiration of the US government(which Australia thankfully refused to perform) as well. Assange will not at present visit the US.

Keep in mind my US brethern this is a government that under the present adminstration is sanctioning the termination of US citizens without trial in the interest of their war on terrror...

We my friends are the enemy we have been taught and spoken about.

That my friends is quite sadly...fact. The other nonsense...is nonsense flat plain and simple.

"This order considers that progress can be achieved more rapidly during a single month of self-transformation through terrifying conditions in rough terrain and in "the abode of harmful forces" than through meditating for a period of three years in towns and monasteries"....Takpo Tashi Namgyal.

There are no links between wikileaks and governmental intelligence services other than the information used by whistleblowers within those organizations for purposes of tranparancy.

Wikileaks has gone out of its way to "cover" its claims of transparency, again which should make one cautious. Also why leak to know pro intelligence outlet newspapers, such as NY times, London Guardian and German newspaper, and not straight to internet or independent alternate media? NY times worked in conjunction with neocon intelligence disinformation about WMD's, uranium tubes, and yellow cake before Iraq invasion. Also the chaos hacker group of the 80's from Germany and US and wikileaks share common ground no?

I remain cautious and neutral about this.

Last edited by Heruka on Wed Jul 28, 2010 6:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Assange did indeed cancel a forum he was to attend in the US on the part basis of information of a confidential source Sy Hersh had received....he told Assange he must..."watch his back".Yes my dear friends Daniel Ellsberg was way way back the subject of attempts to terminate him by aspects of the US government it seems(Ellsberg is quite aware of this and speaks of it) and Assange prior to becomeing this famous was subject to arrest and perhaps worse.... at the inspiration of the US government(which Australia thankfully refused to perform) as well. Assange will not at present visit the US.

Again media savy cover of "authentic", quite the spook story. It really is more interesting than the leaks itself. Going underground and staying in media whilst on publicity drive to hype the document downloads.

The intellligence service of the US as has been revealed by other leaks have a program to terminate wikileaks as as viable alternative news service. Basically the modus operandi is to firstly state that wikileaks informants are compromised by wikileaks(their safety security and anonomity, and secondarily to state wikileaks is basically being used by other with agenda, thus compromising the revealed information itself.

The choosing of the news outlets was in regard to the specific gravity of the situation, the enormity of the documentation and perhaps (this is a bit of conjecture) the relative vulnerabiltiy of wikileaks as a small internet organization to attack from governments which it has been shown are killing its own peoples without trial nor hearing.

Why did Daniel Ellsberg choose the NYT as a outlet for his release at the time. They though publically were probably quite supportative of status quo at the time, were large and powerful enough that any attack or direct termination was not possible. There were many many alternative newsoutlets available at that time for similiar dessimation. Daniel E was not in cahoots with the govenment because he revealed the information in that fashion. It was for real viable reason to allow for propogation of the information.

This is a real world with real real consequence. They did actually want to terminate Ellseberg way back when and failed. They really and truly will terminate anyone and anything that stands in their way.

REally assumeing this is a viable interest and not propogandist in intent..

Think about it why are Sy Hersh and Ellsberg both 100% behing wikileaks and this story????

If you think they are compromised then basically you may as well crawl into a hole and grab the dirt to fill it in over you.....there is then absolutely noone to trust in anything. Anyone that has contact in any fashion with the government may be accused of conspiring with that government and thusly suspect. There then will never be any leaking of any sort...all is considered with agenda. That is basically a Orwellian argument of theory applying the unreal situation to the real.

So what you are saying if it is studied makes no sense. Ellsberg, Hersch, Assange they are not agents of the government. Those that state such things are working at agenda. The same agenda but of differing means that states publically...this is old news and it hurts the troops.

NOnsene total nonsense

Think about this for a minute....these are not a genius of sorts, those doing these things a Geoge Orwell or some such. These are people that see not the wisdom of totally eradicating terrorism by donating 100 Billion dollars to eradicate starvation and provide water to all of the worlds inhabitants in need of these things but instead will spend ten times that amount and at least a million lives to fight this thing in a proven unwinable fashion.

They are stupid thugs generally , not a shred of insight amongst them. This fighting terrorism thing is so simple. YOu uproot the cause of terrorism you do not much at all to the terrorists but protect yourself as you may.

YOu are greatly overestimating these peoples. Religious fundamentalists like the terrorists are....they are as stupid as who they fight. AS the US established camps for Japanese American citizens in ww2 and thusly replicated to a degree the camps for the jews in Germany so the stupidy of the religious fundamentalist is mirrored by those in opposition.

It is simply beyond their capacity to do things as Orwell displays. They are Obama and all...quite stupid. We confuse rhetoric with understanding.

"This order considers that progress can be achieved more rapidly during a single month of self-transformation through terrifying conditions in rough terrain and in "the abode of harmful forces" than through meditating for a period of three years in towns and monasteries"....Takpo Tashi Namgyal.

ronnewmexico wrote:It is simply beyond their capacity to do things as Orwell displays. They are Obama and all...quite stupid. We confuse rhetoric with understanding.

Not really, george orwell (Eric Arthur Blair) was his writing pseudonym, as an actual intelligence agent, he would say that government has two states, the welfare state and the warfare state. He would say that the war on terror is not ment to be won, but to be continuous. In typical Lucius Cassius quote, cui bono (who benefits?) we should see the wikileaks documents on Afghanistan as a affirmation that ISI and CIA set up and radicalized local Islamic tribes, to destabilize regimes and push US backed Trotsky inspired neocon agenda within governments. War is indeed peace, ignorance is strength, and freedom is slavery.

The NYT may have leaked the information and obtained permissions it is how they do business apparently. Which violates the basis of freedom of the press and the necessity of having a independent media. But the target again was not the US press that is assumed to be censored, but the european media. Wikileaks shared the information with other news outlets prior to publication.To absolutely guarantee one did not share the information with the US government would be beyond expectations.

Without europe and thusly nato, this thing like the Iraq war will end. There will be nothing the US can do about it.They simply cannot stand against the world great though militarily they are.

Congress in the US hastily passed a Afghan war appropriation bill yesterday. Why so sudden....as the materials leak out the home support for the war begins to loose steam and erode.The congress anticipating such a thing bullied through the appropriation bill. Says on whose side congress is on Dem and Rep both. If this was grand design no such rush would have occured....check it...this did occur.

Its over..they don't know it yet, and it certainly will take years but this thing and the US grand plan to instill a dictatorship to their likeing.....it ended on this date. As the pentagon papers ended Vietnam...though it took years to effect. The death knell occured when they were published.

So great Bodhistavas are these. I bow to them in greatest humbleness. May I be a flea on their shoe.

A great great thing has occured and all because of a lowly soldier in the army. May he be protected from the torture they undoubtably subjecting him to.

You simply are greatly overrating these stupid stupid peoples. When Sri Lanka ended terrorism in the form of the Tamil Tigers their stock market and most probably their GDP sored by 100 percent. The actual elimination of terrorism would include increased profitiability for virtually every sector of the US and global economy sans the defense industry. They are so stupid they came within a hairsbreath of stopping all international trade due to their instituion of what amounted to a ponzi scheem of grand scale, which folded in Sept of 08. And they take no action to prevent reoccurance. To infer all this is a grand grand plan of the superintelligent basically beyond normal humans comprehension....flies in the face of all the facts we know.

They are by far and large....idiots. Americans tend always to think riches come to the rich because they are simply much more intelligent, and would do anything in the main to be them or like them. The truth is richness is more than anything a karmic product and cause originated. Intelligence and planning not usually a very big part of that cause.

"This order considers that progress can be achieved more rapidly during a single month of self-transformation through terrifying conditions in rough terrain and in "the abode of harmful forces" than through meditating for a period of three years in towns and monasteries"....Takpo Tashi Namgyal.

ronnewmexico wrote:Congress in the US hastily passed a Afghan war appropriation bill yesterday. Why so sudden....as the materials leak out the home support for the war begins to loose steam and erode.The congress anticipating such a thing bullied through the appropriation bill. Says on whose side congress is on Dem and Rep both. If this was grand design no such rush would have occured....check it...this did occur.

The point being there is a struggle between the traditional military that is under civilian command (president) and the neocon (contractor) CIA control, with their drones and black op secret rendition bases, and black op private mercenaries. The trillions of US dollars in contracts that cannot be accounted for that leak out of the pentagon, the patriot act and so forth (all designed and in place before 9/11) is the point. Even the fired US general and so on is all state craft, state theater for yours and mine consumption. Wikileaks is no exception, as Aldous Huxley would say "bread and circus".

The whole of the progressive media and progressive side of things to include Sy Hersch, Ellsberg, Amy Goodman Glen Greenwald (and I could add about a thousand more though those are the most noteable)...do not agree with your personal assesment of Wikileaks. They would either all be dupes or in on the fix which in both cases they plainly are not.

Yes, we will see. We will see that this spells the end to the Afghan war and the US govenments ability to influence to the futhurest degree the outcome. It is now due to Europe quite far gone....they loose, once again, for shame. It will take several years but the master plan is finished.

Blackwater et all....icing on the cake for the majority impetus which is to direct resources, pipelines, energy and establish power bases within this part of the world. But that corruption is not main mover in this thing, just a addon or added profit motive in this thing. The scale is grander than that. Even grander than the defense industry in isolation. It is called continuance of empire.

Unfortunately they do not hazard the greatest threat to empire is not such things but stupid action by stupid peoples which produce unintended consequence. So they suffer...the empire is finished. Its death knell is not the same as this thing but it has rung. This but contributes.

"This order considers that progress can be achieved more rapidly during a single month of self-transformation through terrifying conditions in rough terrain and in "the abode of harmful forces" than through meditating for a period of three years in towns and monasteries"....Takpo Tashi Namgyal.

The whole of the progressive media and progressive side of things to include Sy Hersch, Ellsberg, Amy Goodman Glen Greenwald (and I could add about a thousand more though those are the most noteable)...do not agree with your personal assesment of Wikileaks. They would either all be dupes or in on the fix which in both cases they plainly are not.

Yes, but Amy Goodman (democracy now) and so on are invested in their side of the picture, only have their side of the picture and are not in the business of understanding authentic ways of analyzing intelligence. They report what they are given and spin it their way. Operation mockingbird through media is more savvy then the "stupid" people you so cheaply write off. Interesting side note, forgive i cannot remember the lady from Iceland MP's name, but was quite invested in placing wikileak hype, months before the leaks, on media outlets that the material would "blow the world apart" in their revelations.

I like wikileak, but remain careful of the material provided. Lets say, as in the case of the GW Bush leaked documents to mass US media of his military service records. Maybe if it were 100% true. If along side 30% was placed deliberate misinformation inside the documents, that taints all the information as un trust worthy. Such stunts do occur for sure. Now 100% fact becomes a half truth.

We again disagree....good reporting not this slop that you see on national media in fact does involve analyzing intelligence data and information as thoroughly and completely as any intelligence professional.If fact I'd suppose many intelligence operatives in the good old days were not inexpert in the field. At least one name obviously comes to mind. Many intelligence activities are directly media connected and that is not because intelligence planners are diverse from the field of reporting.

I'm sorry..... I hear what you are saying. The contention that the entire activist media and progressive community are being bamboozoled by a incredibly intelligent group of operatives does not pass the giggle test. The facts proported that wikileaks did in fact clear their information by the US government when their spokesperson cannot even enter the US due to fear of injust imprisonment....is no fact at all.

You should consider this.....what you your community are being sold it pushback. If you know intelligence you will know tha any real story that impact negatively will be countered by multiple variants of the story to lessen or mediate the impact of the real story.

This notion wikileaks is in conspiricy with the US government....undoubtably one of those push backs. Like the planting of a story questioning the trial of a innocent US girl in Italy at the same moment the judiciary of Italy is considering trying in absentisia CIA agents who abscounded with a Italian citizen.....it is simple pushback.

YOu want to believe it go ahead. YOU must then first explain to yourself why Daniel Ellsberg and Sy Hersch do not.

The explaination...push back. As I have explained. Sorry push back or not....

It's game over

"This order considers that progress can be achieved more rapidly during a single month of self-transformation through terrifying conditions in rough terrain and in "the abode of harmful forces" than through meditating for a period of three years in towns and monasteries"....Takpo Tashi Namgyal.

ronnewmexico wrote: The facts proported that wikileaks did in fact clear their information by the US government when their spokesperson cannot even enter the US due to fear of injust imprisonment....is no fact at all.

Mr Assange in interview that will be released probably this week Saturday said so, not my invention.

You should consider this.....what you your community are being sold it pushback. If you know intelligence you will know tha any real story that impact negatively will be countered by multiple variants of the story to lessen or mediate the impact of the real story.

true, if one is not aware of the game at hand.

This notion wikileaks is in conspiricy with the US government....undoubtably one of those push backs. Like the planting of a story questioning the trial of a innocent US girl in Italy at the same moment the judiciary of Italy is considering trying in absentisia CIA agents who abscounded with a Italian citizen.....it is simple pushback.

if one maintains neutrality as i have mentioned time and again, away from left/right paradigm, one can use subjective intelligent overall outlook on material. if like a fish one is captivated by the bait and bites, one is led by the hook in mouth.

YOu want to believe it go ahead. YOU must then first explain to yourself why Daniel Ellsberg and Sy Hersch do not.

Ive seen all day suckers in all walks of life. The lady and gentleman you mention are credible, and have my respect, this does not detract from the documents provided though. again you have not defended the digital multi generational scanned media, which is hard to defend against original hard copy.

Well Sy Hersch and Daniel Ellsberg are being taken for a ride and being bamboozled by these incredibly intelligent operatives of the US government.

That would be a ...oxymoron I think they call it.... the incredibly intelligent operatives of the US government.

Do you know any operatives, people who became operatives.....a single one perhaps?I do. Incredibly intelligent are not the words that come to mind....midlevel bureaucrat is..

I'm sorry you have to at some time get real. I listened to many many hours of Assange and his comments and have researched him.....nothing of the sort you purport occured. He is in fact hunted and was asdvised by Sy Heach to watch his back as I have mentioned.

Do you think Sy Herch is lying or making that up? If you can't trust Ellsberg and Hersch who can you trust, some made up internet authority who wouldn't know a operative from a ham sandwich except in his imagination perhaps.

Well OK then....believe

"This order considers that progress can be achieved more rapidly during a single month of self-transformation through terrifying conditions in rough terrain and in "the abode of harmful forces" than through meditating for a period of three years in towns and monasteries"....Takpo Tashi Namgyal.

no doubt counter-intel at work for sure, whether its from military industrial complex or agent provocateur is a side note. please if you could place credibility on the patch work of multi generational digital downloaded separate packets of information, as untempered would be prudent to topic.

How many US intelligence operatives does it take to screw in a lightbulb...Four....one to hold the bulb and three to turn the ladder.

That's about the best I can do...milld derision.Missed the World Trade center, missed the collapse of the soviet union, managed to remove piles upon piles of elected popular national leaders starting in Iran years ago replaceing them with invariably heinous dictators who had a purchance for torture and self agrendizement, to produce populations of people... billions who know one thing and one the only....the enemy is...the good old USA.

And it continues to this day....Colombia a manufactured war against Venezuela, Colombia our Israel of south america.....geeze louise...Have these guys ever gotten it right just once.

Inept idiots.... Many empires have sustained for many many years, the Ottomans...1000 or so.Holy Roman 600 or so, British....400 or so, and on and on.Due to the incompetance and blatent stupidy by the political/corporate leaders of the US and the "intelligent services" which aid them(and I use the term intelligence very very loosely) the US will be the shortest duration empire to ever have existed in human history. The Fall of soviet union, what 20 or so years if that marks the begining, and it is already in significant decine. NO money, a currency backed by nothing, a empire a debtor nation, armies that require supplementation by paid brigades, blatent unregulated greed and financial weapons of mass destruction.... a sure sign of a empire in decline and on and on. I could go on and on.

Yes it has just begun...the decline here on out will be quite percipitous. Beware in what direction it will fall. Fall, the fall has already begun. Watch the direction it falls, many could be crushed under its useless weight.

The shortest duration empire in the history of the world...hello China...goodby USA.Aided and abetted by a useless unthinking intelligence service. Why did the US intelligence operative cross the road...

To find out which side he was on...

And on and on,this could get ugly.Bamboozleing.... Sy Hersch and Daniel Ellsberg.....not in this life, not those guys, by these guys....not going to happen.....when pigs fly. NO iron birds around here. These guys are the gang that couldn't shoot straight, F troop, incompetance incorporated. Those guys are pretty bright fellows each.

So nice talking to you....hope that wikileaks being on the side of those in the know works out for you.Pigs are not flying here it appears, perhaps tomorrow.

"This order considers that progress can be achieved more rapidly during a single month of self-transformation through terrifying conditions in rough terrain and in "the abode of harmful forces" than through meditating for a period of three years in towns and monasteries"....Takpo Tashi Namgyal.

thank you ron also for the education. i hope you check back from time to time, so we can evolve discussion. i think at this date in time, deduce some simple facts. first that i think after several looks agree that the documents are real. although my gut says some of it may be battlefield hyperbole by junior Intel officer reports to seniors about the situation on battlefield. im talking elevated body counts etc. what is not really that big a deal in revelation, is the implied use of NATO reparations money to Pakistan, being used by Pakistan ISI to fund taliban (student of Islam) into war funding for insurgents against NATO allied occupying forces. also increase in opiate exports, whilst under allied control on the ground, of the opium heroin, cash crop in Afghanistan. this has been know for long time, no October surprise there.

we know and understand the next push and drive, will be to destabalize pakistan.