DOT/BQE Meeting: New Location

According to the BHA, Thursday’s meeting has been moved to the Ingersoll Houses Community Center at 177 Myrtle Avenue at the corner of Prince Street. The meeting will begin at 6:30 and doors open at 5:30 PM.

Agree with Greg. I recall only a single comment at the meeting complaining about (temporary) loss of the Promenade and its views (There were certainly plenty of people who seem to think the city will renege or otherwise fail to restore it later, but that’s a different issue.) The majority of commenters were concerned about the location of the temporary roadway and how that affects noise/pollution in the Heights, loss of Chapin playground, etc.

Cranberry Beret

Can we get a single topic for the BQE? A post-meeting update? Too many threads to keep track of…

There should be TWO THREADS. One for people who want to debate the merits of the meeting. A separate one for people who want info on activism. We are coordinating efforts into savethepromenade.org so we don’t have friendly fire and compete against ourselves. We are also getting behind this petition to avoid duplication: https://www.change.org/p/save-the-brooklyn-heights-promenade

No 6-lane highway

The earth-splitting noise of the piles to be driven into the earth for the temporary 6-lane highway will keep everyone to Cadman Plaza — not just those on columbia heights — awake every night for 2 years. Consider that.

COULD IT BE … that for all that Mayor Bill would have you believe that he prizes open-ness, this is still the same old NYC bureaucracy that liked (and still LIKES) operating with as little scrutiny or input from the “public”/community?!

Yeah, they could’ve scheduled the meeting on Staten Island, but isn’t this … along those lines?

SURELY, this is one agency that knows that 11201 takes in a pretty big area – and 100K people, as a guess. THEY SHOULD know (and probably do) that for all that it’s ONE zip-code, the people MOST DIRECTLY affected are NOT on Myrtle Avenue … and given how driving there is still not gonna happen to much of an extent, … they won’t need “extra space” – the room must have been mostly empty.

The BHA REALLY needs to up its game! If all they care about is keeping their membership up, issuing the occasional statement may be enough. If they want to make/keep Brooklyn Heights a good place to live, we’re getting close to the time that civil disobedience becomes the only viable tactic.

Eddyde

The room was filled to capacity and then some, people were turned away.

It would only take 3-6 months to drive the piles necessary for the elevated roadway.

gc

Great news! Not able to read the entire article (not a subscriber) but … Look at what happened in DC at the Kavanaugh hearings. Loud protests and, more importantly, the two women who confronted Jeff Flake in the elevator have lead to a further FBI investigation. In my opinion their aggressive approach was crucial. Dig in, if you want to win this battle it will take all that and more. Paving over the Promenade is not going to happen!

gc

In spite of the impact (intended or otherwise) that the location implied.

Banet

Also, I expect the pile drivers would work at day, not night.

gc

My recollection from the meeting was that the construction would go on 24 hours a day, day and night.

gc

Sounds like fun … 6 months of piles being driven 24 hours a day 7 days a week. Where do we sign up? Do you even live anywhere nearby?

TeddyNYC

Pier House would be in the way of that alternative BBP alignment so I guess part of the Promenade would still have to be torn up to make way for it at that location.

Greg

I walked the length of the promenade going home tonight and really recommend everyone do the same.

Short summary: I’m now triply committed to evaluating a proposal through Brooklyn Bridge Park. I’m way more optimistic this could be a best case scenario for everyone – Brooklyn Heights, park users, and highway users.

Core observation (I never type in all caps but I’m going to now): FOR THE VAST MAJORITY OF THE PROMENADE THERE IS AMPLE UNUSED LAND ON THE PARK SIDE OF THE BQE. THIS IS ALMOST ENTIRELY A NOW-CLOSED PARKING AREA COMPLETELY HIDDEN FROM ALL USABLE PARK AREAS.

Honestly, this looks way more feasible than I initially imagined.

My sketch proposal:

From Montague St to the the Pierhouse, create a double-decker highway: three lanes on the ground and three lanes on a second level. There’s adequate space for this and no structures blocking it. This would be *lower* than the current BQE and completely hidden behind the park’s berms – more so than even today. It doesn’t even have to be temporary: this could be the BQE’s new permanent route. This alone resolves practically all promenade concerns.

The Pierhouse get close to the BQE. But it does not adjoin it. There’s still 50ish feet of clearance, and the highway is already bearing away from Furman Street here. The bigger challenge is the ventilation shaft for the A/C line. There may be no choice but to elevate over the shaft and pass through the dog run. But at least this avoids residences.

South of Montague is also more complicated. There’s the Montague St ventilation shaft but this has plenty of clearance from the highway. We might need to demolish the two low-rise warehouse structures north of 360 Furman. We may also need the highway to take the BQE-side of the park berm. But there should be enough space to keep the waterfront side so it looks exactly the same as today: a nice rolling grass hill where with no sign of a highway being on the other side.

360 Furman is the most complicated. This is the only spot where the highway really is squeezed on both sides. I don’t think routing around the waterfront would work. One option is to do a really short elevation past Atlantic before bringing back down to ground level around Remsen. This would harm Willowtown and that needs acknowledgment. If we’re lucky enough not to have tunnels between Remsen and Atlantic, maybe a trench or tunnel could work here.

I’d love feedback on these ideas or second pairs of eyes on the layouts and clearances I was seeing.

Look at the width of one BQE lane (marked by the white dividers). Compare that to the width of the edge of the greenery to the asphalt edge of Furman St.

MaryT

In August I took a cab home from JFK at around 1am. We made good time until Williamsburg. Slowed to a crawl. The very bright lights and heavy mechanical noise were puzzling, until realizing that it was BQE roadwork. And I think that work was just on the surface.

It will be hellish.

Cranberry Beret

Makes a lot of sense. Don’t think a tunnel works. The Joralemon tube for the 4/5 line is there. One potential issue with the narrow constraint between 360 Furman (1 BBP) & Willowtown is that it makes it more difficult for any solution to deviate from continuing northerly in the straight line of the existing roadway. North of Joralemon, curving out west over Furman or parkland implies a lot of columns in places where they need to be doing the rebuild. And also leads to the cattle chute DOT mentioned in the meeting. This isn’t fatal to the proposal but definitely a big negative (and possibly no better than just doing lane-by-lane replacement).

Cranberry Beret

Is this article new info from today or just a rehash of the meeting? (Can’t read, not a subscriber)

Jorale-man

The article plays up the idea expressed by some of building a highway over BBP, which seems like a non-starter. Best to stick with the idea of diverting traffic through area streets and/or Furman, and focusing on that.

Also, the piece seems to subtly paint Heights residents as privileged, white, entitled, etc. It’s best to emphasize that the promenade is a destination not only for all New Yorkers, but for visitors from around the globe. Don’t make it about us here in the Heights. And when attention does shift on the Heights, focus on the history and storied architecture (600+ pre-civil war buildings, cobblestone streets, etc.) and not about the people living here.

My 2 cents…

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x7nPOzGeyaw Arch Stanton

You smoke a joint on that walk?

Greg

Good points. Another challenge is there are federal requirements for how tightly a horizontal curve can turn.

So if between Atlantic and Joralemon the roadway run north, then between Montague and Pierhouse it’s parallel but shifted west, a left, then right curve is necessary to connect them. That’s going to take up space.

If you look at the map below (zoom out) you can see today’s curve length between Congress and Joralemon. That’s a pretty long swath of territory.

gatornyc

What are you talking about? Pile driving can only be conducted from 8 a.m. to 3:30 p.m. on weekdays. And not only do I live nearby, I live right along the BQE.

gatornyc

Your recollection is incorrect. Substantial night work will be necessary and FAR more with the “traditional” approach than with the “innovative” approach.

gatornyc

The Promenade is integrated into the current triple-cantilever. It HAS to be replaced. No one is trying to take it away. There is no option but to close it and replace it.