first to storm .... you wrote "want to know a true blooded indian, look into his eyes" .... well this statement alone says you have never been around indians as we find it rude to look directly into someones eyes ... that is a european thing.

bearpaw ... to answer your question .... DNA makes a indian .... if you do not carry the DNA of any indian nation, you are not indian, plain and simple. you may follow a particular indian nations ways .... you may be adopted into a american indian family, but that again does not make you indian. As for pointing fingers ... what i do is write facts that piss people off .... I was BORN Lakota .... I carry the DNA that makes me indian .... I am not 5 different nations trapped in one body as I have seen many claim. We are independant nations with independant cultures, languages and traditions .... again, if you are not indian and follow the ways, then you only practice a nations ways....you can not be indian just because you feel indian. This is a fact. many people scream that it is not fair, but it is a fact. I do not carry irish blood....so i can not be irish .... as the new age saying goes....a eagle can not be a bear....why would he want to?

if you yourself carry indian blood, then i suggest you learn your language, culture, and traditions.... as a grandmother, it will be important to pass those things onto your grandchildren. if you are not indian, then admit you are only a follower and allow your grandchildren to pick thier path in life wisely . toksa ake

Dear ndn horseman...DNA?..all peoples have DNA..You were born Lakotah..Names are but words..Labels given, descriptive of the culture you are born..to be born into another culture does not make one, less Indian..I see many that call themselves Indian..born and raised with their culture and are not Indians..Apples are Apples aren't they?..I see young in all cultures, drunk,raping and killing their women..are they Indian?,Just because of their bloodline? We here were born into another culture..However we are registered with two tribes with but a trace of what you call white blood....We are for preserving All tongues and cultures..we are against those who are destructive to other living beings..There are Indians and there are white eyes.

first to storm .... you wrote "want to know a true blooded indian, look into his eyes" .... well this statement alone says you have never been around indians as we find it rude to look directly into someones eyes ... that is a european thing.

.... DNA makes a indian .... ...

NDN, I in no way meant to advise direct, prolonged eye contact !

Crikey !

Even , here, in the U.K, particularly the area I hail from, looking someone squarely in the eye could get your blooming throat cut !

I am fully aware of the threat, or feeling of slight, that many perceive, whites and natives, alike, from having someone peer into the depths of their being. Even the most obtuse of individuals will reel back askance at the unwanted intrusion of another's gaze. However, if we wish to gauge the essence of another, it is prudent to regard the eyes, ~ discreetly, no matter what the circumstance, nor who the individual. I hope this clarifys the issue for you ?

Sperm and ovum determine the DNA, this, in turn, creates a sentient being, a conscious entity, that is all. The child is " labeled " ~ indian, but the heart, within, is the only yardstick, by which the mettle of an individual may be, truly, measured.

In the words of Shakesphere ~ A rose, by any other name, would smell as sweet.

NDN, were we, merely, physical beings in a material universe, then your assertion would be correct. However, we are, infinitely, more than this, we are ~ Spirit, beings, inhabiting, a physical shell which, one day, we will simply discard. It is for each one of us, to discover our own ~ Inner truth, through the challenges that we face, it is, indeed, what we are here, on this Earth, to do. To ~ Know Thyself.

The Native American Culture, is one of the most ~ Advanced, to have ever touched this plane of existance. Is it really so difficult, therefore, for you to comprehend,, that ~ Spirit, would confine itself to mere geographical location ? or allow itself to be snuffed out, altogether, within a weak , dying and corrupted infrastructure ? For I tell you, this is ~ Not, the case, nor ever will be.

Nature abounds with anomaly, for it is one of its ~ surest ways, of Survival. Is it too much a stretch of the imagination to consider, that ~ SPIRIT, proceeds likewise ?

bearpaw ... to answer your question .... DNA makes a indian .... if you do not carry the DNA of any indian nation, you are not indian, plain and simple. you may follow a particular indian nations ways .... you may be adopted into a american indian family, but that again does not make you indian. As for pointing fingers ... what i do is write facts that piss people off .... I was BORN Lakota .... I carry the DNA that makes me indian .... I am not 5 different nations trapped in one body

if you yourself carry indian blood, then i suggest you learn your language, culture, and traditions.... as a grandmother, it will be important to pass those things onto your grandchildren. if you are not indian, then admit you are only a follower and allow your grandchildren to pick thier path in life wisely . toksa ake

NDN, you dont piss me off. Sometimes your facts do strike a blow to my heart. This is not because i dispute your facts, it is because your statements are factual and they remind me of what I have missed out on my whole life. When the day comes that I know what nation I can call my own, I will strive to speak the language as fluently as you speak your Lakotah, if the language still exists.

NDN, the DNA testing would confirm what my grandmother and 2 great aunts had told me. I dont know if it would be able to tell me the nation, would it? When I have an extra $200 I will have it done, but right now I dont eat every day. Life is an adventure

ndn horseman...It is apparent, we differ on what defines an Indian,.What it is to "be an Indian"..DNA All humans can be traced back to the same first two..and DNA does not make the spirit of a man..

I dont think so, its really more about what is a nation; and how does one relate to/within said nation.

Scientific, wasicu-centric and other forms of measurement are simply not The way. The ones who have the issues and continue debating how someone can be"indian" without being of the people, is Usually, Not of the people.

Dakota wicohan tewahida

my assumption is that you dont believe in a universal genetic commonality,, ..curious,, regarding your people's genesis,, do you believe in the said "migration theory's : bering strait, south american movement,, or do you believe in the creation stories,, .. this makes a difference inherently..

do you believe in the said "migration theory's : bering strait, south american movement,

By this statement I have to understand that you believe the dribble they teach in school about people being in the amerikas for 12,000-15,000 years. And this is based on the finding of the Clovis type points.

There are so many sites that date much, much further back in time than 15,000 years ago. Tupper Creek, SC dates back to 32,000 years ago. Ponte Verde in south amerika 45,000 years ago. Dig sites in Brazil 50,000 years ago. Sites in the Andes Mtns are so old they can not be dated, because they are above the tree line and only structures are found, no artifacts. Crow Creek in Alaska/ Yukon territory, artifacts found can be dated to around 40,000-45,000 years. A site in Michigan that dates to 35,000-40,000 years. Dr Leaky, famous for finding "Lucy" in the Rift Valley in Africa, worked at a dig site in southern California before his death that he dated to around 250,000 years ago. There are many more I can cite, but you get the point.

I have researched this subject. When they did their gentetic studies, about man coming from 2 people, they only samples a very, very, very small number of people. Hundreds of thousands of bloodlines, or more, were wiped from the earth with the white invasion and diseases they brought. It is nothing more than propaganda.

If you believe in the migration from asia dribble explain the Zuni language. If we have only been here for 15,000 years, why cant linguist find a related language any where in the world? Nowhere in the world is a language related to the Zuni. There is not even a language that remotely resembles the Zuni.

If all of mankind came from 2 people, why is the world not full of inbred rednecks. We all know what happens when any 2 closely related beings breed.

So,, flip,, as you quote various Anthro and arche theories,, you prove my point!,,, you still have not answered the basic question!,, how did these people arrive here I ask?.. are , you, saying, you believe the creation stories as absolute truth?.. because if NOT, you are only proving my point that Natives arrived here through "other",, scientific means,, and did not come here emerging from the dirt,, or drop from the sky,, or come from space,, are they aliens?, please answer this ,, what is your ultimate theory of native origin.. ?

Hmmmmmm, "these people", hmmmmmm, this little phrase kind of inferes that "these people" myself included, are of a lower class than yourself. Kind of reminds me of when I was a very small child visiting family in the deep south. My older brother, who is 10 years older than me, and I were at a playground. I saw some black children and I wanted to go play with them. My brother said, "We dont play with those kind of people." Are we that kind of people to you?

Lets see, one science says where there was nothing, a massive explosion occured and instantly the infinate universe was created. Many billions of years later the Earth was born. A few billion years later a slime changed into a living cell. A few billion years later that one living cell gave rise to the dinosaurs. and Several hundred million years later apes came from those dinosaurs, who all came from that one, origional single cell. then millions of years later, man came from those apes, who came from the dinasaurs, who ultimately came from a single living cell.

Another science says all of mankind came from one man and one woman, kinda sounds like the Judo-Christian story of Adam and Eve, ooops wait... Adams first wife was named Lilith who the Creator turned into a demon because she liked to be the aggressor in bed. A little further along in the story, adam and eve's 2 sons were fighting over who was going to marry their sister, one get murdered. The killer is banished to the wilderness, but before he is banished, the Creator put a mark on him so no other person would kill him. Was it not ony adam and eves family that was living at that time? Who was going to kill him? Oh, this gets even better. The story of the flood, after the ark came to rest in the mtns of arat, Noah's only unmarried son went to another land to get a wife. Gee, didnt all other living creatures on Earth die in the flood, except the 2 of everything, or was it 7 of everything? The same theory quotes both numbers of creatures saved, just in different chapters.? Where did this son get his wife, Mars? This is the science that says mankind came from one man and one woman. This is the theory/science that says our spirits we pray to do not exist, yet, believes in demons and angels.

So you believe in both sciences, which contradict each other, yet you can not believe the Creator put the red man in the Amerikas, white man in Europe, the black man in Africa, and the yellow man in Asia. Why is that? Why should our Creation stories have less credibility than your two contradicting theories you believe in? Why are our Creation Stories more far-fetched than this dribble you speak of?

"Everything has its place and every place has its thing" The Creator gave each of the four races of man their own place to call home, and a way of life to live by. This is the land we were put on, each nation with their own way. This is the land meant for us, the red man, all other races are not in the place given to them by the Creator, in the beginning. They dont belong here. Eons ago they forgot the sacred way given to them by the Creator. They turned evil and brought their poison here to this land.

Hmmmmmm, "these people", hmmmmmm, this little phrase kind of inferes that "these people" myself included, are of a lower class than yourself. Kind of reminds me of when I was a very small child visiting family in the deep south. My older brother, who is 10 years older than me, and I were at a playground. I saw some black children and I wanted to go play with them. My brother said, "We dont play with those kind of people." Are we that kind of people to you?

Lets see, one science says where there was nothing, a massive explosion occured and instantly the infinate universe was created. Many billions of years later the Earth was born. A few billion years later a slime changed into a living cell. A few billion years later that one living cell gave rise to the dinosaurs. and Several hundred million years later apes came from those dinosaurs, who all came from that one, origional single cell. then millions of years later, man came from those apes, who came from the dinasaurs, who ultimately came from a single living cell.

Another science says all of mankind came from one man and one woman, kinda sounds like the Judo-Christian story of Adam and Eve, ooops wait... Adams first wife was named Lilith who the Creator turned into a demon because she liked to be the aggressor in bed. A little further along in the story, adam and eve's 2 sons were fighting over who was going to marry their sister, one get murdered. The killer is banished to the wilderness, but before he is banished, the Creator put a mark on him so no other person would kill him. Was it not ony adam and eves family that was living at that time? Who was going to kill him? Oh, this gets even better. The story of the flood, after the ark came to rest in the mtns of arat, Noah's only unmarried son went to another land to get a wife. Gee, didnt all other living creatures on Earth die in the flood, except the 2 of everything, or was it 7 of everything? The same theory quotes both numbers of creatures saved, just in different chapters.? Where did this son get his wife, Mars? This is the science that says mankind came from one man and one woman. This is the theory/science that says our spirits we pray to do not exist, yet, believes in demons and angels.

So you believe in both sciences, which contradict each other, yet you can not believe the Creator put the red man in the Amerikas, white man in Europe, the black man in Africa, and the yellow man in Asia. Why is that? Why should our Creation stories have less credibility than your two contradicting theories you believe in? Why are our Creation Stories more far-fetched than this dribble you speak of?

"Everything has its place and every place has its thing" The Creator gave each of the four races of man their own place to call home, and a way of life to live by. This is the land we were put on, each nation with their own way. This is the land meant for us, the red man, all other races are not in the place given to them by the Creator, in the beginning. They dont belong here. Eons ago they forgot the sacred way given to them by the Creator. They turned evil and brought their poison here to this land.

Dear Flip...First..there are two here a male and a female.. second..You assume too much..No one here has stated in any belief , of any kind..We only asked what you believed..You also are quick to point your own anger out, as you specifically referred to a remark made"these people" as if it were bigotry..When it was only referring to ancient ones..

RE:You say..They dont belong here. Eons ago they forgot the sacred way given to them by the Creator. They turned evil and brought their poison here to this land...

Again assuming.. and pointing fingers at a lot of innocents...Man only knows what he has seen. No Death,only an exchange of worlds~Chief Seattle.

12,000 years before their Christ..A great Mother Spirit..warned the people..Man can destroy himself,by his own thoughts...

A Bear.. stands and warns.."The Night Mare has been recognized"... Do not create a white wave..begat..begat..begat..begat..A Claim of being chosen,as they did..You are standing at the beginning of a new world,as a heart..do not make the same mistake. .Who you are today, is not who you were yesterday and who you are today will not be, who you are tomorrow..

I write the following, because it ~ Needs, to be said. What you think of me after the reading of it, is your own business and responsibility. Shoot the messenger as you may. There are more important things in life than "running with the herd ".

If we consider our discussion on these boards, from a broader perspective. The cloaked hostility between folks, resultant of differing perspectives due, in large, to upbringing, conditioning factors, personal preference, schooling and experience. Surely, such should be considered of secondary importancebesides what we stand to gain, once these obstacles are no longer allowedto obstruct the higher destiny of that which awaits us ? Whatever the golden nugget of our bloodline or learned brows, it is little more than ~ DROSS !, if it stands in the way of our spiritual progress, our freedom and dignity.

Does it really matter ~ How we pray, or what books we have read, indeed, if we can read at all ? Must we ever regard eachother, through eyes, askance with calumny and derision ? Wether we consider our origins, 50. 000 years or but a mere century, can prove this heritage or that, uphold one school of thought or another. What does it matter, so long as we can extend the hand of friendship and brotherhood toward one another at the end of each and every day ?

Why can you not be as the children,who run out to play amongst themselves,so long as the sun shines brightly, who cares about background or status ? when ALL that truly matters is the pure joy of existance !

The microcosom, of our lives upon the shores of our Great Mother, reflects the entire universal spectrum which surrounds us. For, as the various divisions, which keep conflict alive and our energies base within this present environment, so to ~ in the worlds beyond.. Thus, as we lift our eyes from the Earth to the stars, again we are met with DNA haughtiness, and the resultant hierachical divisions, affiliations, belief systems, and social structures, this time of extraterrestrial origin, Some good, others not so good.

Yet ~ ALL, we connect with by way of our ~ Vibration, here, and elsewhere, have direct bearing upon our day to day experience and quality of living, upon these earthly shores..

Let all our petty differences to date make way for a grander ~ Vision, one of Love and Respect, between ALL races. No matter the different perspectives held within the human family, and further afield between the various groups of star people. So long as we are kind to eachother .....

We live in times where the past, present and future has become malleable, for we have come full circle, hopefully, returning to the old ways, and a bright and promising future.

However, as upon these boards, so too with our reality, All is dependant upon what is within the hearts and minds of those participating. Which way, ultimately, are we going with our discussion ? toward friendship and understanding, or bad feeling and disunity ?

The deciding factor which seals our fate, toward, either, the unconcionable horrors being planned by the dark forces at large, or the superlative vistas of a destiny which rivals the scope of our deepest yearning, will ~ Not, as many assume, derive of the world of politics, nor by way of creed or doctrine, demonstration or endless debate. The very ~ Key, to unlock us from the grip of tyranny, is our ~ Vibratory Field, for that which issues forth of our ~ HEARTS, alone, is what constitutes our tommorrow.

The higher your note, so the more ~Valuable, is your essence to the healing of our planet and our peoples. Quiet and earnest ~ Inner, participation, toward this objective is the most ~ Vital. element that any can contribute at this time.

Just as a stone thrown into a pool of water creates ever widening circles toward its perimeter. So the quality of our own thoughts, that which we offer up to the atmosphere, will spread further and further into realms, far beyond our immediate shores, to effect that which will determine our ultimate destiny. not just for a mere handful of decades, but for millenia.

There are but two simple options to choose between, Love or Hatred.

We as a native peoples, of various tribes, once walked, with highly advanced beings from other worlds, as brothers. For such ~ we were, at the profoundest level of our being. Like attracts like, this is Unversal principle, and ~ Universally, met. Nothing, can stand in the way of truly loving hearts.

We were not confined in consciousness then, as the majority of us, have become today. We had not lost our way in those distant days, Yet due to the deliberate machinations of the white hearted and the adverse alien forces with which he liaised to tear away our spiritual calibre and identity, our awareness, as a people, was lost. They achieved their objective to despoil the ~ Frequency of our Spirits ~ through the deliberate, tactical manouvre of the barbaric injustices and genocide meted out upon our ancestors. And so, along with each subsequent generation, we have continued to decline, drifting further and further away from the Truth of our, once, noble origins. We lost contact, not only with our ~ Native Essence, ( the core of that which makes us Indian ) but, also with our spiritual brothers from the skies.

I write this as a call ~ From our star brothers, to please ~ Return, your hearts, as ~ Quickly, as possible, to a state whereby they are ~ Enabled, to intersede on our behalf, and right the terrible wrongs inflicted upon our peoples and our planet. Before it is too late .....

~~~~~~~~~

Additional note :

Immediately, I had written the above, ( but minutes ago ) I went to check out my email and found news of the article ~ Below.

I am posting this, along with the above essay, for not only has it arrived at a most opportune time, but I consider it important to be aware of the strategies being deployed by the various governments who wish to maintain control over our minds, and thus our destiny. Indeed, it is difficult for any of us to know quite who can be trusted. In the present climate I would advise trust no-one, not me, nor, indeed, your own neighbour. Practice discernment, follow none other than your own Inner guidance. Above all have ~ No fear, Walk Tall, and, ensure, please, that your heart and feelings remain calm, and your hoop, robust.

Bearpaw, from my study and interaction with native people on this continent, the Creek came up here from the Aztec culture, the Hopi and like in that area have a Mayan connection and maybe Chinese from way back, the Cherokee has a strong Hebrew commonality of similar words, and the so called Siouxian language base have similar Hebrew words but not similar with Cherokee in that the Cherokee word for bear is yonah and the Siouxion word for bear is mato which is spoken through the throat as ma-toe as taught to me by a Rosbud man several years ago, like my full blood eastern Cherokee brother says" what is the srongest part of a man/woman? their mind, i am a Earth person looking for a Holy Government, Flip, get real

Dear Storm...Truth is.. worship what you wish children..But without life..there will be nothing... We here though, do not worship..we dance and celebrate the gifts that we are that we are...We believe religion has no place in politics,in the creation of laws of the lands, as our ancestors did ..No one should bother another as to what his beliefs of great spirit are,It is each to choose what makes them happy..for there is no right or wrong path only a clear path of heart..no black or white as spirit is clear.. A bridge(rainbow) is in acceptance of all there is,without judgment.. There is no hatred nor love that exist ..but what each creates in his own world.. There is common sense..You can take 13 men and put them in a circle..You throw in the middle of that circle..a simple rock..and ask each man what he sees..due to the light and the angle from where each one stands around the circle..each man will give you a different view..but all will agree that it is ,but a simple rock..you can throw any thing in that circle..the out come will be the same..

Bearpaw, from my study and interaction with native people on this continent, the Creek came up here from the Aztec culture, the Hopi and like in that area have a Mayan connection and maybe Chinese from way back, the Cherokee has a strong Hebrew commonality of similar words, and the so called Siouxian language base have similar Hebrew words but not similar with Cherokee in that the Cherokee word for bear is yonah and the Siouxion word for bear is mato which is spoken through the throat as ma-toe as taught to me by a Rosbud man several years ago, like my full blood eastern Cherokee brother says" what is the srongest part of a man/woman? their mind, i am a Earth person looking for a Holy Government, Flip, get real

Dear Pahanna...People forget "how"to recognize "symbols"..which are more important than the written or spoken word of any language...The Bear symbol as an example..A mother bear will smack you, if you get off your path near her cubs..and if her cubs get out of line..she smacks them too..Believe this dear one..There are no questions..that can not be answered..If we but give ourselves"Time"..Humans have changed their languages for billions of years..Look at the Blackfeet..they now have two dialects..The Germanic peoples have 8 dialects etc..People have come to a point where they are under a spell of sound ,forgetting their eyes and the truth is under their nose.. And your Cherokee brother has told you the truth..However..a mind of power ,without love in the heart brings disaster..and we thank you for sharing what you have learned..we humble our hearts to you..

Dear Storm...Truth is.. worship what you wish children..But without life..there will be nothing...

A bridge(rainbow) is in acceptance of all there is,..You throw in the middle of that circle..a simple rock.. ,but a simple rock..

Grandmother, ( might I call you such ? ) I am in accord with you. What a tremendous treasure is a simple rock, we can cast them into water and consider the ripples, or hold them and receive their subtle energies, they can even heal us and impart their wisdom and strength. Stones have so very much to teach us, indeed we , all of us, subsist upon one gigantic spinning ~ Rock ~ She, who spins slowly upon her axis, gazing out into the cosmos which gave her form and essence.......... contributing her note to the grand symphony of her brothers and sisters .....

If I may only humbly interject. I see a lot of blood quantum arguments here. I can not deny that blood quantums are a source of tension for all natives these days. I my self am a fourth Nigerian. My great grandfather was fresh off the boat, came here and married a Yoruba woman. Their son my grandfather married an average black woman. She was a mixed woman, her mother born during the 1850s. Her origins are unknown from her mother's side. Her father was half Czech and Creek. My father was born to these two individuals and it has been living hell since. Our family out in Nigerian treats us like a pile of shit and distances themselves from us. But overtime I came to understand why they treated me in this matter, we did not speak the same language as my grandfather had, my grandfather was from southeast Nigerian and was an Igbo-Bini man. From popular myth in the family my great grandfather was said to have been a local chief who was evading the British during their invasion of Nigeria in the late 1890s. He killed a white man and fled to America...

Overtime my family melted in with the Brown-Blacks, or the mixed blacks of the Americas. One thing all blacks of the Americas have in common for the most part is that we don't speak the languages of our ancestors, and we are so confused and misguided that we often fight amongst our selves.

I can not say what the situation is on the reservation, for I have not been there yet. But I am sensing that "pure bloods" and those closest to them wish to return to the languages of old and the cultures of old. They see "mixed" persons as tainted by the outside world. Now of course I don't know if this is the true perception, but at least this is a similar perception to what I receive being only 1/4 Nigerian.

actually Wal .... it is not about blood quantum ... bear turned it into "who is indian" .... and using scientific methods .... DNA makes you an american indian .... but bear thinks its in your heart. As I satated earlier, I do not care if non indians follow Lakota ways .... or any other indian nations ways for that matter.... but that does not make them indian.... simple but true. i assume bearpaw has no recordable indian ancestory .... notice that word "assume" .... because it is a new age practice to say they are indian because thier heart is more full blooded then a full blood. That statement alone makes them sound silly. Isn't it funny how these people never say that they are "black", :hispanic" or "jewish" at heart.

NDN wrote: I do not care if non indians follow Lakota ways .... or any other indian nations ways for that matter.... but that does not make them indian.... simple but true. .... because it is a new age practice to say they are indian because thier heart is more full blooded then a full blood.

You are right NDN. I know that, dispite I try to follow Lakota ways, I won't never be an Indian...and I have too much RESPECT for this People to say I'm Lakota in my heart.

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