Laura,
Thanks for jumping in. Yes, I agree that San D and I (and others here) are
working toward the same goal, and I'm really enjoying the discussion about
how to reach that goal.

I'm glad you'd like more info on the lesson I referred to and I'll send it
to you off the list (unless others are interested too?) when I get a chance
to dig it out.

As it happens, I will soon try that lesson again, a little refined, because
as I jump into student-teaching with social studies next month, the 4th
grade class will be in the midst of California history -- the missions,
which started the whole generalist/art specialist discussions. And I
noticed that as the Ca. history moves on, there is reference to, guess what,
vaqueros. So after we learn a bit about vaqueros in the context of state
history and the west, I am thinking of bringing in the Jimenez' piece (well,
via posters, anyway -- and I do talk about reproductions versus the real
thing with art) to get the kids exploring why they think he named it that
and what that might mean, given what they know of vaqueros and also what
they know of historical and contemporary Mexican-American issues. Ninety
percent of the class is Latino, mostly Mexican-American, and I think some
will find personal connects to the piece and to the artist to make it even
more meaningful for them.

Lots of great info including aesthetics issues are on the back of the
posters; and I found some other examples of the artist's work last time I
taught it to supplement the lesson and make connections to the issues the
artist explores in a number of his pieces. For those unfamiliar with the
piece, it is an obviously contemporary work -- a fantastic fiberglass
statue. The other works of which I had examples by this artist are in
fiberglass as well and equally dramatic, as I recall.

And, Laura, I think I did engage the kids in some aesthetics issues and
discussions, but I want to pull out the lesson and refresh my memory before
I get into too many details. Thanks for inquiring, and I'll zip it along to
you as soon as I can.

--Elizabeth Paul

At 09:57 PM 1/20/97 -0800, you wrote:> I'm really enjoying this discussion. It seems that you and San D are both >working toward the same goal. I think that we are so concerned that our
efforts >might be interpreted the wrong way, we become hesitant. I can see just from >this list different educators promoting the same cause. You are a student >teacher going into elementary ed., I am a Philosopher with a humanities >background, one is an art teacher and many times in my own university where
I'm >a student, our own Art College and the Education School do not really >communicate at the level they should. That is frustrating but I see that
things >could be radically different for the 21st century. Technology has made >communication and the sharing of ideas soooo much easier. Elizabeth, I would >like very much if you could give me more details on the lesson you
describe. It >sounds like you had a great discussion that might have involved questions of >aesthetics which I am interested. You can just send it to me personally
rather >than the whole list if you prefer and/or have the time.>>Thanks,>Laura