tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7684843.post4763644924679418467..comments2018-05-24T12:38:04.494-04:00Comments on Terrierman's Daily Dose: A Dog is Neither Shovel Nor ChildPBurnshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05781540805883519064noreply@blogger.comBlogger3125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7684843.post-38457281619917311122010-12-17T12:09:00.303-05:002010-12-17T12:09:00.303-05:00Thank you for this editorial. Your comments on 24/...Thank you for this editorial. Your comments on 24/7 kenneling resonate very strongly with me. It feels good to have some verbal affirmation (yikes, what a horrible noun) of a position I had to take a couple of months ago. Thanks.Russell Rescue OWIhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17340052927882782666noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7684843.post-19303026749024455412010-12-17T08:42:43.961-05:002010-12-17T08:42:43.961-05:00The Devil is in the details.... and so is salvatio...The Devil is in the details.... and so is salvation through the truth.<br /><br />If you go back and really read dog trainers from the 1700s, 1800s, 1900s, and up until now, you will not find much abuse. In fact you find dog training pretty much as we do it now, albeit without a lot of overlay to teach tricks and fancy talk about markers etc. Cesar Millan lifts about 6 pages from me (with permission and credit let me hasten to add) about the history of dog training, which is one more (small) reason to buy the book. Suffice it to say that the Greeks were giving dogs treats!<br /><br />All work places, of course, are a bit coercive in the sense that if you do not work, they do not pay you or feed you. Along the same lines, people who work their dogs are pretty famous for saying &quot;if he doesn&#39;t work he doesn&#39;t get fed,&quot; which of course, does NOT mean that they starve their dogs in practice, but that they do not keep and kennel dogs that are useless. They are moved to pet homes, given to someone else who thinks they can make something of them (many a dog has been turned around), or are put down in rare cases. <br /><br />Of course, businesses have been using the excuse &quot;we cannot afford&quot; to for centuries. Without slavery business would collapse, and then without child labor, if we have wage and hour laws, if we have vacations, if we have Social Security, if we have retirement packages, if we have health care, if we have OSHA, etc. In fact, businesses toddle forward and seem to turn a profit.<br /><br />But, to put a point on it, we need to look at how we actually act in the real world before we get too expansive about being nice and saying it is cost-free. Most people love to buy stuff made in China and sold at WalMart (and every other store in America) where the workers are paid a bowl of rice with a fish head on top. That $10 shirt was made by a worker paid 75 cents an hour who had no health care and no retirement. The sad truth is that in America today we import good made in 19th Century conditions and sell them in 21st Century stores and we pat ourselves on the back for doing it. <br /><br />And do we do the same thing with dogs? Well yes. Ever been to a commercial Kennel. Very much the same idea.<br /><br />And, to bring it back to dog training, if &quot;click and treat&quot; is all you have up your sleeve, you cannot really train a dog because you only have one of the three tools of operant conditioning. Yes, it is the tool used the most, but it is not the only tool because it cannot get all of the job done. We still teach guns dogs with check cords (though more on that later, as there may be a better new-generation tool).<br /><br />PPBurnshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05781540805883519064noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7684843.post-68263848114208377122010-12-16T19:36:47.545-05:002010-12-16T19:36:47.545-05:00Your note on &quot;Abuse? But that&#39;s the way i...Your note on &quot;Abuse? But that&#39;s the way it&#39;s always been done!&quot; reminded me of something.<br /><br />I think the conversation was on the topic of training techniques, and someone brought up how &quot;old-school methods&quot; work in the same line of logic that forcing women or people in Third World Countries to work in factories did, or some similar argument. The people are paid little, work in crap conditions, get sick from horrid diseases resulting from unclean environments, etc...but they still produced clothes and other goods! Similar to how the fallacy of how the yank-n-crank crowd basically hung dogs until they came on command (or so &quot;they&quot; want you to believe).<br /><br />I wanted to mention to these people, but never got around to it, how it was interesting when you make the conditions better, pay the workers a bit more, provide a cleaner environment and boost morale with some extra incentives, they can still produce some great items...but they&#39;re still working and haven&#39;t been let go as an act of mercy. In a similar manner, one can still corrections in dog training, but not to the degree or application that a &quot;trainer&quot; in 1903 might have used them.<br /><br />So basically, it&#39;s just a fancy way of saying to not throw the baby out with the bathwater.<br /><br />/got nuthing, you just reminded me of thatViateciohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08523551407472141202noreply@blogger.com