Day 1 – New York, Ground Zero Mosque (Pt. 2)

Bassam and I walked into Park 51, the site of the so called “Ground Zero Mosque,” expecting to feel transformed, knowing the fact that I was praying inside the place that’s practically been mentioned in the news every 20 minutes.

But all it felt like – was praying inside a mosque.

The imam takes a gander at some notes before getting ready for the next round of prayers

Bassam and I spent days debating whether or not we should visit Park 51, because we didn’t want to get sucked into the bickering over the building that’s dominated the news cycle for weeks.

But at about 8 p.m. tonight, we said to each other “Whatever, let’s go for it.” Since we broke our fast at the Mosque of Islamic Brotherhood in Harlem, we decided to pray Taraweeh, the Ramadan night prayer, at Park 51.

We hopped in our car and drove about 100 blocks to the place and found a security guard standing outside the building. In light of all the protests and animosity towards the mosque, I guess you can never be too careful.

Excuse me sir, can I see some ID?

I asked the guard if this was the right building for the prayer, and he asked me to wait by the steps while he went inside to check if I could come in.

I said to myself “Wow, security is this tight in here?”

Turns out I was a moron trying to go through the women’s entrance and he went inside to see if there was a path where I could walk around to not disturb any of the women.

I walk inside and see a group of about 30 men and women, mostly college students, already in prayer so I jump in and join the congregation. Most of them were familiar faces that I have seen at the Friday prayers on New York University’s campus.

An announcement is made that the toilets are broken and people should go across the street. You can't have a community prayer without the standard hilarious housekeeping announcements

I’m standing in prayer expecting to feel something considering I’m inside the Ground Zero mosque. I don’t know what I’m supposed to feel, but for some reason I’m confused why I’m not feeling some mythical sensation.

Then I realized, it’s just a mosque, just like any other place of worship in the country. So the only thing I was feeling was an earache from all the screeching on the microphone from the sound system — just like every mosque in America.

After the prayer, I walked outside and said goodbye to the security guard. His name was Rohan and he spends his days working security outside the building on a regular basis. I asked him if there’s been any kind of problems outside the building, considering all the protests. He said there hasn’t been any incidents at all, except for a random homeless guy that walks by asking people for marijuana. He joked “Yeah but it’s New York City, if I didn’t see a homeless guy walking by asking for weed, I’d be surprised.”

Rohan said the only thing he really sees outside the building are random people that walk by taking pictures. He said several people come by every day snapping photos. He said they have every right to, but he’s just got to take precuations and keep a careful eye on them.

After we finish chatting, I begin walking to the car. Then Bassam comes running out of the building snapping photos in a frenzy. I made eye contact with Rohan from across the street and laugh. I pretend like I don’t know Bassam and head inside the vehicle.

Aman Ali

Aman Ali is an award winning storyteller in New York City and one of the most popular social media personalities in the Muslim community today. His passionate and animated tales he regularly posts to Facebook continue to go viral by the thousands daily.

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I think that I was expecting that there’d be a lil drama because of the news. I was wondering if the climate had changed so much that NY’ers who generally act as individuals and respect diversity would have changed so much that people would have issues attending a mosque. Thank god for clearheaded and slightly aloof NY’ers who have better things to do than disturb others peace. I’m glad that people are being respectful. That’s what I love about Ny’ers the respect for diversity.

R.Y.D.

I’m an American-born Muslim and I wanted to give my two cents on your first sentence, “Dude. It’s just a mosque.” Actually, it’s not. A mosque should not have separate entrances for men and women. (Ever been to mosques in Egypt, Palestine or Lebanon? Men and women enter through the same door and pray in the same room.) Keeping men and women apart is a cultural imposition, and one that turned me away from mosques in NYC when I moved there in 2000. I’m originally from California, and I attended the Islamic Cultural Center there. It was, in the true spirit of Islam, all-encompassing. Men and women from all walks of life and different ethnic backgrounds entered the same door, prayed in the same room and sat together during the sermon. We were encouraged to speak and be heard. THAT is what a true mosque is. Not these patriarchal places that insist on imposing cultural traditions upon religion. I hope you find more mosques like the one in Southern California, but something tells me the norm, sadly, is becoming the one you visited in NYC.

Fazal

Salaam brothers, i have to say you guys came up with a great plan i love the concept its genius
i always wanted to do this but being married its kinda hard but inshallah one day i will convince my wife inshallah i used to be a truck driver so i have some road skills if you guys need any info or help let me know inshallah ok inshallah ALLAH keep you guys safe.

http://www.park51.org Park51

Salam,

Thank you for visiting our space!

We are still in the early phases of building this project, but wanted to speak to the concerns above. At Park51, men and women pray in the same room, without partition (some women have asked for partial partition, for their own privacy, and this is as of now under consideration).

The separate entrance was introduced because of the high numbers of attendees during Friday Prayers, the limited space, the restricted architecture we are working with and the needs of people to return to work as soon as possible.

Because the building is only partly open (most of it is closed due to damage), and the doorway is very small, a number of women specifically complained about the difficulty of entering and exiting in times of high traffic. Also, because the women’s area is at the farther side of the room from the doorway (and the quieter side, we might add, because it is farther away from the doorway), exiting women would have to walk past men in prayer. (Many more men attend than women.)

Our priority is to allow men and women who are working to complete their Jumu’ah and return to work as soon as possible, and a second exit simply made the process more comfortable and more efficient. We did so based on feedback and suggestions from those women who do regularly pray at Park51 and share in our growing community.

Our space, as the great pictures above explain, is limited by structural concerns that will be addressed in the next phases of the project. Thank you for your concern, and we invite you to visit our space in the near future! We want to build an open, welcoming Muslim community, and we need your feedback to help us move forward. It is deeply appreciated.

May you have a blessed Ramadan!

We will hold daily iftars at Park51 from Friday thru Sunday, free and open to the public, and will hold taraweeh prayers every night. We have ample space during taraweeh, so please bring your friends and families to attend as well.

http://worldlymuslimah.blogspot.com WorldyMuslimah

@R.Y.D.

I am a Muslim woman, and I would not like to pray side-by-side with Muslim men in a *mosque*. I like my privacy and do not wish to have my privacy invaded when I am performing the Muslim prayer, which entails bending amongst other things. This is not a cultural matter – it’s as simple as showing respect and privacy.

What you speak of where people talk, mingle, attend lectures and “be heard” etc, that’s a community center/room where people are not engaged in prayer. So the decorum is different because the activity is different.

Could we please not mix the two?

Thank you.

Khan

I guess there are partitions in Masjidi Nabawi and Haram Shareef.

Robert Link

Dear WorldlyMuslimah,

Religion and culture are inextricably entwined, and how one displays respect is very much culture bound, so the separation during prayer is a cultural matter, as well as a religious one.

That said, one certainly ought to be free to pray as one wishes. When one wishes to pray in a group there may be compromises required, which is why many seekers visit group after group before finally finding their spiritual home.

Peace.

not-religious-at-all

I enjoyed reading this post and comments. This type of discussion helps westerners like me understand what real American Muslims think about these things. The more I see of this type of discussion the less “scary” Islam is. However, I’d like to say that it is not necessarily bigotry for non-Muslim Americans to be suspicious. The great majority of terrorist attacks in the world seem to come from those who shout Allah Akbar as they do it.

So please don’t condemn us if we look for some reassurance that the Cordoba House will not become a center for the training or recruitment of terrorists, depots for weapons and bombs, etc. – as many other mosques throughout the world have.

I think the developers (actually anyone who thought about it for a few minutes) should have understood this and could have gone much further being open about their financing and goals. Instead they seem to have the attitude that they can use our laws to do it without any need for such voluntary sensitivity. While legally they are right that does create suspicion. I believe that suspicion is fully justified by facts and is not necessarily bigotry against Islam – although I’m also sure some of it is.

Abbas

Superb journey. All the best.
Waah kia baat hai

SeattleJoe

I expected to be reassured by these pictures but they have made me change my mind in precisely the other direction.

A room full of young muslim males listening raptly to an imam.

Give me a break.

Just show a little basic human understanding and cultural sensitivity and move it somewhere else.

tomdarch

“So please don’t condemn us if we look for some reassurance that the Cordoba House will not become a center for the training or recruitment of terrorists, depots for weapons and bombs, etc. – as many other mosques throughout the world have.”

It wasn’t that long ago that many Americans had these concerns about Catholic churches. It was a surprisingly widely held belief that Catholic churches had stockpiles of weapons, and that Catholics were awaiting orders from Rome to take over the US.

Of all the folks in the US who are publicly freaking out about the Cordoba House project, how many of them have set foot in a mosque? Heard the call to prayer from down the street?

I too, am “not religious at all”, but I am not concerned about Cordoba House. I’d be perfectly happy with such an institution being built in my neighborhood. I’d suggest to “not-religious-at-all” that if you really have these concerns, please find your local “moderate” mosque and ask for a tour! I’m sure someone would be glad to show you around. You’ll see that there is no chache of rocket launchers, no chants of “death to America!”

Of course, there are a few wacko, right-wing, conservative mosques/communities in the US. But, there are plenty more wacko, right-wing, conservative churches. I think we in the US should all be more nervous about near-future Timothy McVeighs and Eric Robert Rudolphs, in other words Christian terrorists, than worried about American Muslim extremists. Both exist, but there are a lot more of one than the other, and this Sunday, in churches across the country, there will be no shortage of “terrorist chatter.” Think about what “Tea Party types” say about our President in public. Just imagine what they say to each other in whispers in the corner of a church basement after a fiery sermon…

not-religious-at-all

tomdarch, Finally someone is using that “whataboutery” I’ve been hearing about so much on mer. I won’t try to address it because it misses my point.

Which is, when millions of humans are killed every year by people shouting Allah Akbar as they pull the detonator, when there are thousands of YouTube recordings of Muslim Imams exhorting their followers to step up and martyr themselves in order to kill infidels like me and my kids – it is not bigotry to ask, not demand but ask, for some assurance that this Islamic center two blocks from the most famous successful Islamic attack in history, is a peaceful project and not simply another territorial marker for dar al Islam.

Because, whether it actually is or not, we all know it will be triumphantly described that way by Imams in all those mosques throughout the world who require of all faithful Muslims to be at war with infidels like me.

And if my request for assurance is dismissed, as you have, it is not bigotry for me to wonder if that center being there is not going to increase the likelihood that the next attack will be more likely and more deadly than the last and if our western permissive attitudes toward religion are not largely creating that outcome.

not-religious-at-all

That first sentence should be: ” Finally someone is using that “whataboutery” I’ve been hearing about so much, on me.”

I don’t want to dismiss your “whataboutery” as a categorically foul tactic; it’s sometimes a valid criticism. In this case I assure you that if any other religious denomination (or any secular affiliation) had killed almost 3000 innocent Americans in the name of their beliefs – and then others who identify themselves as the same ideology by name, wanted to build anything, even a hot dog stand, a couple of blocks of the scene of the murder – I would be asking the same questions and expressing the same reservations.

And I would be suspicious of any American who wasn’t asking the same questions. Your calls for such religious tolerance in this case seem empty to me if not disingenuous. If you want to play “whataboutery” with me, come back when you have a permit to build a Christian church and religious educational center in Mecca.

veteran

No, you come back to me when the Pope permits pagan temples to be rebuilt in the Vatican, or when Falwell lets me roll out a prayer carpet in Leesburg, huh. And please, I’m a veteran of the resulting wars from 9/11 and I’ve *never* seen that kind of militancy in the US and we probably never will. There’s a good reason why Faisal Shahzad and the Underwear dude had to go overseas to get trained, ’cause they would get run out of our mosques with the quickness!

not-religious-at-all

I don’t have any pull with the pope but Leesburg, VA is an American city.

This link shows several Mulsim mosques, educational and community centers in the vicinity of Leesburg. If anyone prevented you from rolling out a prayer carpet in Leesburg itself – in accordance with constitutional local laws regarding such things – I’d be very surprised. If anyone attempted to prevent you from exercising your religious freedom in Leesburg or any other US city, the ACLU and SPLC would be all over it in a heartbeat, and I would applaud them.

Too bad there’s no ACLU or SPLC to stand up for the few Maronite Christians in Lebanon who haven’t been killed yet.

Facts Are Fun

“when millions of humans are killed every year by people shouting Allah Akbar as they pull the detonator”

Millions, huh? So “Muslim terrorists” kill around the same number of people annually as World War I did? Care to back that up with some kind of source or reference or would you prefer to continue talking out of your bigoted ass?

not-religious-at-all

Facts Are Fun, you are correct. I exaggerated. After I posted the comment I wished I could have corrected it. How many do you think? What if it’s only a couple hundred thousand? Is that OK? Is it not such a big deal if only a few dozen are killed by someone shouting Allah Akbar?

Is it OK for one person to be killed by another in the name of their religion? Is it OK for one person to be killed by another when there are peaceful alternatives to resolving disputes? Is it OK for any religion to say that all the world should be “submit to it” – either to become a believer, pay an infidel tax and live in submission to its rule, or be killed?

What I’m trying to say is that non-Muslims have valid reasons to think that many Muslims believe those things are all OK. We only have to go to YouTube or the nightly news and observe what some Muslims say and do. Especially when other Muslims living in out countries are silent or become defensive about it when asked to reassure us that they don’t go along with that stuff. It’s not a matter of bigotry – it’s common sense.

Adnan

ummm the same can be argued about why many Muslims feels so suspicious about Americans !!! So let me see how many innocent civilians have been killed around the world by the US in your so called fight against terror ? sorry I forget its collateral damage and a price worth paying.

not-religious-at-all, it is very easy to make sweeping generalizations about what Muslims think, believe and do.

First, regarding what Muslims do, it is an exaggeration of colossal proportions to say that “hundreds of thousands” of people are killed in the name of Islamic fundamentalism. If you are so sure of the high number, please do some research and calculate the number of people (“civilian” and “non-civilian”) killed by Islamic extremists in 2009. If possible, also calculation what percentage were Muslims, and what percentage were compatriots of the killers — which may give you some sense of the socio-political roots of this violence. Then, in order to contextualize these numbers, please calculate how many people (“civilian” and “non-civilian”) were killed by the U.S. military throughout the world in 2009.

Second, regarding what Muslims think and believe, lucky for you someone’s already poured millions of of dollars into figuring this out, so we don’t have throw around guesses and postulations. Gallup, the world-renowned pollsters, conducted a seven-year massive study covering more than 90% of the Muslim world (which means more than 90% of a quarter of the world’s population — Muslims are about 1 in 4 on the planet, which should be your first hint that generalizing or, worse, demonizing a quarter of the planet’s population is beyond absurd). The project continues to be updated with new studies. You can find detailed reports on the scientific methodology and the results of this study here:http://www.gallup.com/se/127907/gallup-center-muslim-studies.aspx
and here:http://www.muslimwestfacts.com/MWFHOMEPAGE/home.aspx

If that is too much reading for you, and you prefer anecdotage to statistics, I suggest you try befriending some local Muslims.

Fatima

not-religious-at-all, it is very easy to make sweeping generalizations about what Muslims think, believe and do. It’s a bit harder to actually back up those generalizations.

First, regarding what Muslims do, it is an exaggeration of colossal proportions to say that “hundreds of thousands” of people are killed in the name of Islamic fundamentalism. If you are so sure of the high number, please do some research and calculate the number of people (“civilian” and “non-civilian”) killed by Islamic extremists in 2009. If possible, also calculation what percentage were Muslims, and what percentage were compatriots of the killers — which may give you some sense of the socio-political roots of this violence. Then, in order to contextualize these numbers, please calculate how many people (“civilian” and “non-civilian”) were killed by the U.S. military throughout the world in 2009.

Second, regarding what Muslims think and believe, lucky for you someone’s already poured millions of of dollars into figuring this out, so we don’t have throw around guesses and postulations. Gallup, the world-renowned pollsters, conducted a seven-year massive study covering more than 90% of the Muslim world (which means more than 90% of a quarter of the world’s population — Muslims are about 1 in 4 on the planet, which should be your first hint that generalizing or, worse, demonizing a quarter of the planet’s population is beyond absurd). The project continues to be updated with new studies. You can find detailed reports on the scientific methodology and the results of this study here:http://www.gallup.com/se/127907/gallup-center-muslim-studies.aspx
and here:http://www.muslimwestfacts.com/MWFHOMEPAGE/home.aspx

If that is too much reading for you, and you prefer anecdotage to statistics, I suggest you try befriending some local Muslims.

Fatima

not-religious-at-all, it is very easy to make sweeping generalizations about what Muslims think, believe and do. It’s a bit harder to actually back up those generalizations.

First, regarding what Muslims do, it is an exaggeration of colossal proportions to say that “hundreds of thousands” of people are killed in the name of Islamic fundamentalism. If you are so sure of the high number, please do some research and calculate the number of people (“civilian” and “non-civilian”) killed by Islamic extremists in 2009. If possible, also calculate what percentage were Muslims, and what percentage were compatriots of the killers — which may give you some sense of the socio-political roots of this violence. Then, in order to contextualize these numbers, please calculate how many people (“civilian” and “non-civilian”) were killed by the U.S. military throughout the world in 2009.

Second, regarding what Muslims think and believe, lucky for you someone’s already poured millions of of dollars into figuring this out just so we don’t have to keep throwing around guesses and postulations. Gallup, the world-renowned pollsters, conducted a seven-year massive study covering more than 90% of the Muslim world (which means more than 90% of a quarter of the world’s population — Muslims are about 1 in 4 on the planet, which should be your first hint that generalizing about or, worse, demonizing a quarter of the planet’s population is beyond absurd). The project continues to be updated with new studies. You can find detailed reports on the scientific methodology and the results of this study here:http://www.gallup.com/se/127907/gallup-center-muslim-studies.aspx
and here:http://www.muslimwestfacts.com/MWFHOMEPAGE/home.aspx

If that is too much reading for you, and you prefer anecdotage to statistics, I suggest you try befriending some local Muslims.

Fatima

oops, i don’t know how it triple posted! please just leave the last comment. and delete this one too! thank you, moderator.

not-religious-at-all

I have expressed my concerns. Why has no Muslim here attempted to answer these them? Can no Muslim tell me that they reject these verses from the Quran and they should not be accepted by true Muslims:

Qur’an (9:29) – “Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued.” Suras 9 and 5 are the last “revelations” that Muhammad handed down.

Qur’an (9:5) “But when the forbidden months are past, then fight and slay the Pagans wherever ye find them, and seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (of war); but if they repent, and establish regular prayers and practice regular charity, then open the way for them…” Prayer and charity are among the Five Pillars of Islam, as salat and zakat. See below.

Qur’an (9:11) – (Continued from above) “But if they repent and establish worship and pay the poor-due, then are they your brethren in religion” This confirms that Muhammad is speaking of conversion to Islam.

Qur’an (2:193) – “And fight them until persecution is no more, and religion be only for Allah. But if they desist, then let there be no hostility except against wrong-doers.” The key phrase is to fight until “religion be only for Allah.”

http://30mosques.com Bassam Tariq

Hey not-religious-at-all

We’re not looking to engage in a theological debate on this blog. Your candor is appreciated, but I think there are better forums on the internet to inquire about Islamic scripture. I think the Why Islam forum does a good job in answering these questions.

Thanks for reading our site.

not-religious-at-all

OK – I’ll go away. But I wasn’t interested in theological debate. I was only interested in seeing if a Muslim could tell me if they reject or accept those parts of the Quran that call for holy war against infidels like me. I see no-one wants to take that on. And I guess there must be a reason for that.

Bill

Typical muslim remarks made so the question does not have to bee answered. Don’t ask me to defend my holy book asking for your death. Don’t ask me to speak out against the militants. Muslims are quick to bring up religious freedom in America to defend themselves. But a non- muslim never gets an answer to his or her questions. “There are other forums for that.” Typical evasive answer.

Muslims never speak out, they live in countries that deny religious freedom, and then bash us when we have concerns. If muslims truly felt that the militants were wrong they would stop them. But I don’ see any muslim states taking on the Taliban or Al-Queda, why, because they agree with them.

Yes there has been bigotry against other religions in the US and still is. But there is only one religion that is making war on the USA and has a holy book that calls for our death.

Yet I am suppose to assume that just becasue the mosque is in the US that everyone attending believes in the constitution, declaration of Independance and the bill of right.

Hard to do that when I am gazing up at the hole in the skyline caused by muslims on attacking my country.

yellow

for the guy who quoted verses from the book, i’m pretty impressed with your googling efforts but not so with you inability to join some islamic forums. maybe try reading the entire book, then you’ll probably understand what it truly meant. But if you refuse to read the book properly or go to these islamic forums to understand, then we can’t help you there. Knowledge after all, comes with a bit of effort. But of course, you can choose to think that it’s not necessary to learn that much about islam and continue spouting those verses on every islamic article written, then naturally you’ll get the same answers.:)

for my fellow brothers and sisters, it’s ok that people would say these things. For no matter how you defend yourself, there’ll be a thousand others who simply refuse to open their eyes even though the proof is right in front of them. They will refuse to step in a mosque and continue believing in their prejudices. What we can do is to send a prayer for them and smile and hope for the very best. May allah reward your efforts.

Corah

Bill, you neglect to remember that the Bible calls for death for those who don’t worship your god either.

For those of you making false equivalencies regarding other nations and the building of this mosque. Other nations do not have our religious freedoms, you cannot compare the two. You should, however, thank your lucky stars that the founders created the 1st Amendment.

Bill

Corah,

Nothing in my statement mentioned I am Christian so don’t presume. I agree that Bible has the same type of hateful teachings. Just read the psalm about killing babies!

My point is that we are at war with a religion and the adherents of that religion must at least recognize this. You don’t have to tell me to be thankful I am an American. I have fought for this country and my friends have died in wars for this country.

I am just tired of Muslims always wanting to be treated with respect but not once do they stand up against the militants. No muslim country or group of organzied muslims in this country have consistently spoken out. I have to assume this is because of fear or agreement. As you say the first amendment is there why do muslims not use it to defend this country?

While I do think that building a mosque near ground zero is in poor taste much like building a shinto shrine on the USS Arizona, I defend the right to do it becasue of the religiious freedom this country is founded on.

For the one who said the proof is right in front of our eyes. I agree. The only time you hear of a mosque in the news is when there is a problem. Why not try to become part of the community. Say that religious courts are wrong. That muslim countries that don’t have freedom of religion is wrong. That as Americans you support the war against the Taliban.

But muslims Americans are very quit on these points. Only when they don’t get to build a mosque do they bring up bigotry. Even in WW2 when JapaneseAmericans were interned, a horrible act far beyond anything Muslim Americans have endured, they still felt as Americans they had to speak against evil and fight. In fact the most decorated unit in the American Forces was the 34th a Japanese American unit.

Where is the American Musllim commitment other than to complain when someone questions what you are doing. It may seem unfair but we are at war worldwide with militant muslims who would destroy our country in a second if they could. A perfect example is the cold blooded killing of doctors trying to provide eye car. No religious tolrance there or 1st amendment rights.

You would find much more understanding and sympathy if you were not so silent is the face of evil.

JA_Vet

Bill,

I respect your views, but ask that you think a little deeper. One point I wish to make – The 442nd RCT (Regimental Combat Team) is the most decorated unit of it’s size in the history of the American military. Yes, it was a unit made up of Japanese-American volunteers, many of whom were like my father, who enlisted and was sworn in as a soldier INSIDE one of those WRA camps. I will also point out that my brother and I are both veterans of Desert Shield/Desert Storm and OIF/OEF.

My father, and those of his generation fought not only a war, but prejudice as well. In almost every respect, they won both. My father was absolutely horrified at the anti-Muslim backlash in the wake of the attacks in NYC and DC. He feared the same kind of blind mistrust and suspicion that forced him and his family into a “relocation camp”. To indicate that we should all be suspicious of any Muslim is, from my limited perspective, quite honestly the first step on that slippery slope my Dad so feared.

Seek first to understand – that is how we grow, as individuals, and as a nation.

not-religious-at-all

A comment was addressed to me by “yellow” so I will respond. Please stop and think for a minute about what I am saying – and Bill is saying pretty much the same thing. I don’t need a course in Islam. I believe in freedom of religion and you are free to interpret your religion any way you want.

What I do want to know is if your interpretation includes rejection of calls for violent jihad against non-believers. It seems like a simple request. If my religious theology called for attacking and killing you and your family and you asked me if I agreed with that – I would have no problem telling you that I rejected it completely – if that was the case.

Since you seem to have no desire to reassure me about your interpretation I must assume the worst – if I care for the life of my family or my nation.

I am a very open person. I always assume when I meet someone that they are a good person. I love visiting foreign places in the world and learning about their cultures and customs. Like most Americans I bet Bill does the same. As I have slowly been exposed to more and more information about Islam the less good I see. I want to believe that Islam is a peaceful and open religion but my experience here – like other times I have tried to be open and discuss my reservations with Muslims – has not reassured me.

Here’s the bottom line. If you have no evil intentions towards me or my country – if you do not look forward to Islam dominating my culture someday and placing me and my family under Sharia laws – you would have no problem saying so and explaining why I need not worry.

muslim_me

Do I agree with “attacking and killing you and your family” in the name of anything, no I don’t agree, I do not agree one bit. I reject their “honoring” of these words, and verses, to which the meaning is so elusive and fragile.

I am muslim, but I cannot fathom at all what these extremists (including those who uphold syariah law) are thinking, feeling and doing. I do not find myself connecting on any level with them- I am as similar to them in the same regard that I am bipedal, but it really stops there.

Many 20-something muslims feel that it’s incredibly difficult to take responsibility for their actions when we do not define ourselves the way they do. But as students and activists, we regularly participate in anti-war, anti-terrorism, anti-inhumane activities as much as school and work will allow us, just as much as our fight against poverty and aids.

What this is, is a specific war initiated by a very specific group of people. I am just as sad as anyone else that all these innocent people lost their lives and hope that this will end. If we could make this better, we would.

Should they build the “mosque” there? The fact that hurts so many- no.

muslim_me

Whoops. The fact that *it* hurts so many-no.

muslim_me

Mind you, I read that this centre has been there for a very long time, in which case, having the area be “rid” of it, is not very culturally sensitive either. The people of this centre are regular Americans, it is not their intent to put anyone in the fear that there is danger- they just need a place to pray, simple as that.

Your concern is human, as a American I completely understand where you are coming from. I would like to make a couple of points to think about.

1. US is not a war with Muslims,

While some of the people who have attacked America in recent years are muslims, if we use these people to define the faith that would be unfair.

this goes to a larger issue about portraying a minority group based off the loudest voices. A CNN report from a cave somewhere in the world, or a video on you tube cannot possible speak for a faith of over a billion.

It is wrong to allow that type of mis representation of any group.

2. For me to say “Muslims do not one take over the US” is ludicris because I cannot speak for a all muslims (there may be some muslim in Turkmenistan who has another idea). I will say this as a Muslim. I nor anyone I know wants to take over the US and submit your family to taxes, shari’ah, or the like.

3. On the verses, I condemn the right-wing understanding of those verses. The proper and accepted understanding of those verses are almost the opposite of the meaning that people often (even muslims) assign to them. For that misunderstanding (from Muslims and others) I am deeply sorry regretful because it has been the source for many misunderstanding.

4. Not all people who disagree with the Park51 projects are bigots, in many communities the objection to mosques are about routine things like traffic and property value. However I ask all people to look beyond their reasoning and make sure they are not using logic to justify unfounded fears.

On a personal note… I want to apologize for the wrong actions of Muslims across the globe. From Acts of violence, to angry rhetoric, and even our share of pollution. Additionally, as a American and a Muslim , who has grandfathers and uncles fight in wars, (WW1, Vietnam etc).. and friends muslim and other faiths fight and die in more recent wars. Try to remain open about muslims especially in the US. It is almost impossible to do that by watching the media, no one person alive speaks for all muslims. As someone who has been involved in mosque across the US all of them ( i literally mean everyone I have ever been to) condemns violence directed towards innocent people from anyone and especially from muslims.

I have to get back to potty training my son!

http://fibrowitch.blogspot.com/ fibrowitch

Could you please come to Boston and talk to my neighbors? I like to think I am an innocent person, and I feel there has been violence directed against me.

sam

glad to find this blog. ramadan mubarak, amigos. may your travels be safe and continue to be inspirational for yourselves and for those of us too anchored by life’s responsibilities to hit the road ourselves.

Logan

In case @not-religious-at-all @Bill needed some help locating answers, I’ve provided a couple links below. Recall that this site is blog about visiting mosques, there are plenty of sites where Muslims and theologians of all religious walks speak about their texts – the sincere might venture to try there. All the best to you:

Likely you can find many others on Google, or you can read the books of non-Muslim academics who address this issue, such as Karen Armstrong, and discover what non-Muslim academics say about this issue, having studied the religion and theology (more than browsing a few sites and some Google searches).

http://amanali.net Aman Ali

Cool, thanks for the links Logan, good resources for everyone to check out

Dear Mr. not-religious-at-all:
I am not a member of this mosque or any other. I’m a New Yorker who lives in the East Village and I was here when the towers fell and I remember how freaked out I was — and how furious when I found out that this event was being used to justify invading Iraq. But I digress.

I have an English translation of the Qur’an among my books, which I admit I’ve never read, and I noted that most of the sections you quoted were from section 9. So I looked at that section. 9.1 calls itself, “A declaration of immunity from God and his messenger to those of the Pagans with whom you have contracted mutual alliances,” and all of the sections you have cited were for Pagans who have broken their alliances. For example, after you get betrayed and attacked, you get 9.5 “fight and slay the Pagans.” Well, anyone can attack someone who attacks them. Even today you allowed to use lethal force against someone who was trying to kill you, but only under certain circumstances and only if you’re in danger, which seems to be what this section 9 is about. I can see you’re taking this out of context, and I don’t even know the context!

(obviously I defer in my interpretations to people who actually know about this sort of thing, but I just want to point out that even an ignorant fool can see this guy’s selections of the qur’an must be made in bad faith.)

As Salaamu Alaikum, I am so happy to see you brothers doing positive things with your time. May Allah reward you all for fellowshipping with other Muslims across the US in this blessed month of Ramadan. We need as much positive support as we can get. May we all be prosperous in our goals to Paradise and have peace on Earth. Ameen

Tony

It’s a matter of sensibilities and not legalities as far as this whole thing goes. It seems to me that if a Danish cartoonist…LEGALLY plying his art…depicted Mohammed all to the ire of Moslems…and, in the same manner with Salmon Rushdie LEGALLY writing his books…bringing a fatwah upon him for his efforts…then WHY can’t Moslems concede this very same point? Moslems are bigoted, too, it would seem! There is no way to equivocate this double standard. It is merely an issue of Good Manners and sensibilities. Nothing more or nothing less.

Anon

I don’t think that the plan should go forward at its current location. I don’t think it will be a victory for bigotry and offer a sense that fear of Muslims can be permitted. I really see the central controversial issue of this project to be sensitivity of location — nothing more. I agree that American Muslims should not have to be associated with the evil acts of AlQaeda. Honestly though, we haven’t done enough to educate the public about us, so the idea that this may make people who are even liberal minded feel uncomfortable and squeamish is something we ought to not discount.

I actually think that by agreeing to compromise and to relocate, the developers would show that Muslims want to partner with the community and not bow down and forsake their rights nor say to hell with everyone and continue forward. In the end, I absolutely disagree with you that “surely [it will bring] longer term pain.” If anything, I think it will be a good foundation for longer term understanding. This project is different from the anti-mosque uproars across the US. This one is specifically about the nostalgic painful memory of Ground Zero for Americans, including American Muslims. We are being unfair when we conflate the circumstances. And we ought not to be condescending and reactionary in our consideration.

But to get to the part about ridiculous PR: the stubbornness of the organizers is to me a terrible reflection on American Muslims. Sherif ElGamal and the gang at Twitter Park51 deserve criticism for their unwillingness to even think about compromise and their public missteps.

I can understand the reactions of Muslims, especially in New York. They see a lot of this from of the view point of people who have been wronged and harangued. American Muslims share the deep horror of 9/11. Our lives were impacted significantly as well — collective guilt was placed on our shoulders and a religion that teaches us compassion, which teaches us to be better human beings, was and continues to be hijacked. From that defensive position, it can be easy to feel reactionary.

The intent of the developers, however hapless and naive their strategy has been, was one of good will: to help in the rebuilding process, to serve the community of Lower Manhattan, to build bridges of understanding and tolerance between cultures and faiths.

So it is ironic, but not surprising, that a project whose end is to advocate understanding has set sail with stunning communication gaps.

Muslim leadership right now needs a LOT of work. Daisy Khan said at the community meeting in NY that the location was “no big deal.” Well, it is. Sherif ElGamal is flat out twisting reality with his claim that the center is no where near Ground Zero. Um, it is. His slightly arrogant assertion that this will be the most famous mosque/cultural center complex in the world makes his stubbornness and unwillingness to relocate less sympathetic. The twiter folk at first were like, we’re not going to be engaging during Ramadan. They have improved since their early snarkiness, but they still need work. Ibrahim Hooper of CAIR recently blamed the tea party for “releasing the inner bigot” and blamed it for much of the anti-Islamic response. With that statement, Mr. Hooper is guilty of the same broad-based strokes of intolerance that he condemns on his own community. More frequently, a lot of Muslims, including the interns at the twitter account and other spokesmen for CAIR, keep saying “When a non-Muslim commits an act of terror, no one refers to his religion.” Look, if we’re honest with ourselves (and by the way, I completely agree with your position that Faisal Shahzad and Nidal were isolated from the Muslim community; communities are helpful to moderate views), Islam is linked to these radical acts in a way that is greater than whatever analogies are set forth, because they seek Islamic justification and buy into twisted tafsir more perceptibly.

The sense of feeling victimized is what is leading the interns and organizers of Park51 to label everyone who doesn’t agree with them as bigots. They’re not. We can’t expect people to commiserate with us, and not commiserate with other people. I know it’s frustrating when people call this a monument to Muslim triumphalism, when if anything, Cordoba for Muslims holds connotations of cooperation, not conquest. And New York Muslims do face a discriminatory climate in their daily lives that leaves them feeling jaded more than those of us Muslims in suburban areas (I know because I’ve been there for a bit). But when we’re reacting from a reactionary posture instead of a compassionate posture, that reflects badly on all American Muslims.

I like what Rami Nashashibi said: “Whether it’s the Niqab in France, minarets in Switzerland or mosques across the US, the deeper pathologies underlying these obsessions in turn generate an unhealthy and disproportionate amount of reactive posturing on part of the Muslim community and those coming to its defense. The end result is a lot of public discourse about Muslim rituals and places of ritual as opposed to the general effort of Muslims in this country to be forces for good and transformation.”

The smarter course of action, the one that best serves all American Muslims, and our children above all who will face the ramifications of our actions, good or bad, is to urge the developers to compromise and to relocate. I believe it will make us look stronger, compassionate, and cooperative members of the American fabric — the exact goals that the center claims to want to promote.

It’s frustrating, because I don’t know how to reach them with this message, and like you said, there has been a paucity of American Muslim voices to add nuance to the discussion.

But I ask us to relay this message to the developers, and I urge them please, to relocate this center to a different part of Manhattan.

kidblast811@verizon.net

You people can build a mosque when a chruch or temple can be built in one of your sandlots over their!!!!!!!!!!!

Canadian

So, raised any controversy lately?
When commenters take the media out of the equation, they are left with faraway events, and their own lives. Much of this controversy is, despite the angry denials of the oh-so-informed, derived from republican instigators, working hand in hand with Christian extremists who support their political agendas. This issue has nothing to do with the debate over religious freedom, or even ‘sensitivity’ (when will American pundits recognize that Muslim American victims cannot be separated from America without an overdose of hypocrisy?)
I’ve been reading the Qur’an lately, and Allah speaks of those who do not harm Him, they only harm their own souls. Think about it. You’re ‘defending America’ by not only trampling the constitution and ignoring the global geopolitical reality, you’re darkening your own self with intolerance, ignorance and hatred.
I highly recommend you continue to ignore any and all Muslims, and read what an American has to say about life and dealing with Muslims – read Three Cups of Tea, and get back to us.
Later, haters!

I was just watching Larry King and the debate on the proposed Mosque at ground Zero…..when all the debate first started , I was all for the building of the Mosque, after all its not illegal and it is indeed a very ambitious project. Then I began paying more attention to what exactly those against the plan are saying. And I have now changed my mind. I think it is a far better idea to simply give up the plan of building the Mosque AT THIS PARTICULAR LOCATION.

All this debate has done has gotten people to focus on the fact that they do not want the Mosque built there because many loved ones were killed by those PURPORTING to follow ISLAM. It is raising the level of resentment and hatred towards muslims and instead of showing them how Islam is a religion of peace, it is just reminding everyone that it was people who called themselves muslims who perpetrated the biggest tragedy America has ever seen.
This is reverberating all over America. Whoever is behind the planning of the Mosque must have known that it would create a lot of problems for Muslims and have anticipated at least some of this backlash. But by not backing down they are pushing back into the dark ages any sort of understanding that non-muslims may have about the religion. All the efforts of Muslims to show tolerance, peace and participation in the society are being drowned out by the persistence of those wanting to build. People have objections and others see no problem. Unfortunately the number of people who are raising objections far outnumbers those who don’t.
This is the time, literally considering the month we are in, ie Ramadhan, to exemplify patience, tolerance and understanding. Why persist in this tussle?Whether one agrees or not, these people who have objections do so because they are genuine feelings of hurt and painful memories.

Also since this Mosque is being so vehemently opposed, what is going to happen once the Mosque has been built?Are we going to have any sort of success in showing the understanding, patience, peace that Islam teaches us? no because we did not show any of these values before the Mosque was built.

By pushing this idea of a Mosque at Ground Zero, Muslims are inadvertently associating themselves with those who caused the tragedy, because that is all people think of in their anger, that the disaster was done in the name of Islam. It doesn’t matter to them that Islam says nothing of the sort. It only matters that they have suffered because of people purporting to follow Islam but instead are sullying it.

Instead of moving forward to make people understand that Islam is peace, we are dredging up the past and pulling ourselves into it.

pf

@Anon
@Wayla

Thank you both for your calm, reasoned comments. A former NYer, i was ready to jump into this, waving the Constitution and my feelings that anti-Americans win when we ignore the Constitutional rights of anyone. Instead, no longer a NYer and not a Muslim, i’ll abstain. I wish the Sufis of Park51 and all NYers the peace they wish for others.

http://yahoo.com Sadik

@R.Y.D
As Salamu Alaikum… Ramadan Karim. I find your comment highly uninformed for a Muslim. Separation of the sexes is a strong custom in Islam. It is definitely NOT CULTURAL. This is very commonly practiced globally and was instituted by our beloved Prophet(SAWS). Fortunately, it is the Norm. I can only wonder where/who are you learning Islam from to hold such a contrary position? Islam’s beauty lies in its uniformity… regardless of culture, gender, socio-economic class, race, etc. All abide by the same principles and are held to the same. I suggest you find a competent teacher to help grow your understanding. The “norm” of masjids having separate entrances for men and women is a global practice. Any masjid you have been to that is otherwise would be an exception to the standard. I would like to give KUDOS to the hosts for bringing a positive light to muslims in America, JazakALLAH KHAIR!! Sadly, our religion of peace and righteousness has been hijacked by zealots and terrorists who in turn have become the face of Islam to misinformed Americans. It is high time for American muslims to unite to dispel the erroneous images of Islam… inform a neighbor, a coworker, a familiar face. May Allah guide ALL to his Light.

http://notesonreligion.blogspot.com Rashed

@Sadik:

Assalamu ‘alaykum. I respectfully disagree with several portions of your comment. At the time of the Prophet (saws), women prayed behind men at his mosque in the same room (for example, see: http://www.islamweb.net/emainpage/index.php?page=showfatwa&Option=FatwaId&Id=138354). Thus, the type of “separation of sexes” that you are thinking of was not the norm at the time of the Prophet. The same was the case at the time of the Caliph ‘Umar (raa) (according to a report by Ibn Jawzi, when ‘Umar made an incorrect statement about dowry while preaching at the mosque, he was corrected by a woman in the audience, which shows that men and women were in the
same room of the mosque and could hear and speak to each other if needed).

BTW, I was in Turkey last year and the all the mosques I went to there had a single entrance for both men and women. Men and women prayed in separate sections, but they entered and exited the mosque through the same door.

http://yahoo.com Sadik

It is historically correct that the message of Truth is soundly rejected in the time of its delivery. The One True Creator has time and time again sent his message to mankind to inform them of the duty to observe worship and obedience to Him. Though initially rejected, truth stands clear from falsehood. It is the custom of the Creator for His message to eventually win over the people; time and time again history proves this. We in America would be well-served to take heed to this message, as it is once again being broadcast. The attention Islam now holds in the world’s eye is undeniable.
Prophet Moses was firm in delivery of his message to the tyrant Pharaoh. Under duress and threat of death he held to his message and worked wonders to inform the people of the One True and Living Almighty Creator. Against the opposition of the then power structure, he was successful in leading his people from oppression (physical, religious, etc.) to freedom. Moses was made successful because his was the message of Truth, there is no might and no power save the Almighty Creator. To this day, millions of people swear by the message of Moses and remain faithful to his teachings.
Prophet Jesus son of Mary was firm in delivery of his message. Under duress, indignation, and threat of death he held to his message that there is only One worthy of worship. Jesus worked too many miracles to name in order to prove his veracity. He was at once loved by the lowly and rejected by those in power. His success in his time is debatable but it is overwhelmingly obvious that he has been made successful in time eternal. His name lives on and his message of peace, love, forgiveness, and dutiful worship of the One True and Living Almighty Creator endures. Millions of people swear by the message of Jesus and remain faithful to his teachings.
Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) is the last messenger of the Almighty Creator and was firm in delivery of his message. Under duress and numerous attempts on his life he remained vigilant with his message of peace, love, forgiveness, and dutiful worship of the One True and Living Almighty Creator. He performed too many miracles to name and his greatest miracle endures through this day. Delivered by a man who could neither read nor write, the HOLY QURAN remains, word for word, as he spoke it over 1430 years ago. In the Holy Quran are found historical accounts unknown before, laws of nature, facts of science, fortelling of future events, revelations of the unseen, legal rulings, commands of worship, and many other topics. This message endures and millions of people swear by it and remain faithful to its teachings.
The Park 51 mosque will shine in stark contrast to the hateful, evil, and horrible intent of the hijacking demons of 9/11. I soundly and wholly reject those hate-mongers and hope the Park 51 mosque will shine as a beacon of light to cast out the darkness of ignorance. In opposition to the worst example, the best example of Islam must be shown at this site so the people of future times can see the true face of Islam and understand the horrors of 9/11 were the lone acts of cowards, despised and dejected, and not a proper representation of Islam. It is my hope that history repeats itself in this issue and truth can be made to stand clear from falsehood. Though the people of present object to it, may the One Almighty Creator make his message resound to the masses and unite all in worship of Him.

Taalib Abdur Rahim Pugh

This is a reply for the sister who said that the new “Masjid” built near ground zero in NYC, was not a true “Mosque”. First of all ALLAAH never says in the Qur’an Mosque (is an european western why of saying the place of worship for muslims), He says “Masjid” which derives from the word sujood in arabic (which means prostration) so masjid fully means place of sujood, place of prostration.

So knowing that. The “Masjid” there in NYC or anywhere is is a true masjid for muslims to worship ALLAAH and ALLAAH alone there. You cannnot determine what’s a true masjid by weither both sex male and female enter them through the same door. Stop being emotional following the influences of sexist groups or non-muslims and so-called moderate muslims who are really liberalist muslims. Trying to create a sex war within the community of muslims. Just stick to ALLAAH’s word the Qur’an and the Authenticated Sunnah of the Messenger of ALLAAH (salalahu alaihi wa salaam). Follow what they say the rights of man and women are an their that they should play in muslim society. May ALLAAH guide us all ameen.

http://yahoo.com Sadik

Islamic contributions to humanity are too numerous to list. There are several worthy of noting. Muslims chemists invented dry distillation and steam distillation. Jabir ibn Hayyan was a Muslim master scientist. He is credited with inventing purification and oxidization, isolating acetic acid from vinegar, and the discovery and isolation of citric acid. He also was the first to isolate nitric acid, sulfuric acid, hydrochloric acid, arsenic, and antimony. Muslim chemists were the first to produce petrol from crude oil. Muslims were the first to use kerosene. Muslims were the first to use tar for roadwork.
Who can deny the beauty of arabesque architecture? Did you know muslims pioneered central heating through underfloor pipes? The earliest evidence of knowledge of coffee use is by muslims in southern Arabia. Muslim inventors contributed tooth bleaching, chemical depilatory for hair removal, modern soap (hard soap bar), and the chemistry of perfume to humankind.
The origins of college lie in the madrasah and the first university in the world was founded by muslims in Africa. The first pharmacies and drugstores were in Baghdad. Bimaristans are the first hospitals and medical schools. These Islamic contributions to medicine are well-recorded. There is also the magnifying glass, astrolabe, the first clock to measure time in seconds, and Algebra is a word coined by a muslim (Muhammad ibn Musa Al Khwarizmi with al-jabr). All these things listed are just a few of the numerous contributions made to make human life better. I dare not fail to mention the first and second largest oil reserves lie in muslim countries, Saudi Arabia and Iraq. The American economy is wholly oil dependent and we would be well-served to understand exactly what Islam is.
The struggle of right over wrong is age old and shall never cease. Slavery divided this country, women have not been allowed to vote, segregation based on skin color, and currently place of worship based on religious beliefs. It is hypocritical to uphold the stance that “you have the right to worship as you wish, just not here.” Where lies the justice in regulating where it is “right and proper” to establish a house of worship to the One True Almighty Creator? Where lies the limit? Popular public opinion has often been wrong and proven just so after struggle to establish unalienable rights. This is what is at issue regarding Park 51. The purported faith and belief of terroristic hate-mongers can not be made to be the determining factor in America’s recognition, understanding, and treatment of a class of people that number over ONE BILLION. The muslim contribution to the world’s village is vastly greater than the horrific tragedy perpetrated on 9/11. It only furthers the forces of hate to obstruct and restrict muslims.

http://fibrowitch.blogspot.com/ fibrowitch

I know I am late to the party, but I must join in. I live in a neighborhood with several Muslims. I live in an 11 story building, 3 apartments are lived in by Muslims.

I tried that befriend a Muslim, talk to a Muslim. Would you like to know what I got?

I got stones thrown at me and my SERVICE dog. If I walk down the street where their small prayer center is (with our without my dog) I get those small fire crackers/poppers thrown at me. I got hissed and spit at as I tried to walk my dog in a public park. I have been threatened just walking down the side walk.

Those of us in the building who own dogs have been asked if we would please not enter the elevator if one of our Islamic neighbors are in the elevator. If the elevator stops after we are on the elevator and they attempt to enter we are asked to EXIT the elevator.

I live by a beach, when it is hot out, people like to go to said beach and sun bath. The State Police now patrol our little beach, because of problems we had with our Islamic neighbors. They are nothing but bullies!

I have no idea if the Muslims I share my neighborhood with are moderate or not. I would try to ask yet again, but I get tired of being called a whore and getting screamed at!

Sherifah

hmmmmm, Their rude behavior has nothing to do with Islam. I have a feeling your neighbors would be jerks no matter what. :-/ FYI, some Muslims have issues with dogs because they are considered to be unclean. When a dog licks a Muslim they have to wash several times before they can pray. As a result many Muslims try to avoid them like the plague. This feeling about dogs was due to the high rate of infected dogs during the time of Muhammad (PBUH). They didn’t have high tech trash and water systems and trash was dumped on the outskirts of the cities. Lots of wild dogs roamed the trash and became rabid. The situation became unattainable and the dogs were ordered to be killed. Afterward, strict rules on dogs were applied to discourage such a thing from ever happening again.

Over time negative myths about dogs were attached to the ban to reinforce notions agaisnt dog ownership.

ThinkAboutIt

Think about it. Who really benefits from all this hoopla surrounding Park51? All that this issue has caused is a backlash and negative sentiment toward a very American and peaceful community. So again, ask yourself who benefits. When someone is yelling, does it make sense to yell back? MLK and Ghandi didn’t get the change they wanted in 1 day now did they? Sometimes, pausing is the best way to get started…

dear brothers and sisters,i was reading this blog and all the comments it has, one thing that bothered me and is stuck in my mind is , there were 2 people who opposed but we all gave them links and sites to go read and visit. why dint we ask an imam of the ground zero masjid to explain them right here on this blog.to me it seemed like they were still unsatisfied with all the answers.i wish in the near future if anyone comes across people like them we should be able to reassure them, that we are not here to harm or hurt them or their families. we are individuals just like them.

on second note you guys are doing a great job. may Allah reward you for all your efforts and bless all of us in this holy moth of ramazan.

sarwar

@Khan – there are no partitions for men / women in the Masjid al Haram in Makkah, nor in Masjid Nawabi, Madinah. The different sexes pray at separate areas. And of course, there are dozens of doors for either men or women to enter these Masjids.

http://hjbkl i just wanna make a point

ok i know that the mosque is a couple of blocks away from ground zero… but dont you see that extremist are doing this on purpose… the islamic religion is a very peaceful religion and i have great respect for it.. but extremists dont see it that way… this is where its time to prove whether were a FREE country or a STUPID country…

I wonder if god, yaweh, Allah, the lord? Whatever u want to call him or her or it – I wonder if he/she is religious? I doubt god would be stupid enough to believe in some man made crock like the Koran or the bible or any other mumbo jumbo ancient book of history, predominately written by a bunch of patriarchal inbred delusionists??? U can’t trust anyone who doesn’t like dogs!!
I live in Australia – a mosque at ground zero is wrong on so many levels,why Muslims would want it there is beyond reason.
When I awoke on sept 12 in australia on that fateful day (we are a day earlier) my life & opinion changed forever! I vomited, could not eat or sleep and to this day am scarred by the death & destruction I & the world witnessed!! Religion is the source of all evil, war, greed and misery! I believe in god wholeheartedly – my god is not religious. God is everything and eveywhere. How dare anyone profess to know the word of god? Words are a part of the human condition, man made words professing the word of god?that in itself is an insult – treat everyone and everything you meet with the same level of regard and love that you would want bestowed upon you.
May god lead you to the truth of universal love even if ur blind and have a guide dog!!!!!

http://tasawwuf.org sana

uff Allah itni complicated larayaan . Thanks be to Allah we dont live in America.
I was impressed to see your objectivity and patience in answering questions and hate-filled posts of the Kuffar. All the best- keep up the good work.

Bob

“We’re building a mosque.”

“Really? Where?”

“Near Ground Zero.”

“Wow. That’s … that’s not the most sensitive thing to do, is it? Won’t that really upset a lot of people.”

“We don’t care.”

“But … don’t you want to foster tolerance and understanding?”

“I guess so. But not if we have to compromise or give something up.”

“Isn’t that kind of one sided?”

“Sure, but again, we don’t care.”

“But you expect Americans to respect you and your religion.”

“Of course!”

“But you don’t have to respect them?”

“No.”

“And that’s fair?”

“Who said anything about being fair? Listen, if you keep asking me these stupid questions, I’m going to accuse you of being a racist. And we both know how damaging that is.”

“Islam isn’t a race, it’s a religion!”

“Racist.”

http://360xu.blogspot.com Timeshare

muslims Americans are very quit on these points. Only when they don’t get to build a mosque do they bring up bigotry. Even in WW2 when JapaneseAmericans were interned, a horrible act far beyond anything Muslim Americans have endured, they still felt as Americans they had to speak against evil and fight. In fact the most decorated unit in the American Forces was the 34th a Japanese American unit.

Anonymous

Well…it ain’t Al-Aqsa!

me

shut up u

me

i dont like verender

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Fact of the matter is most Americans are uneducated, ignorant, bigoted, stupid, semi-literate losers. They are here to vent and pick a fight, with their bogus rhetorical questions. You’re not ready for a political or theological debate, yanks. I’ve lost track of the number of these clowns who’ve I’ve made cry bu hitting them with the FACTS!
American terrorists have murdered millions across the globe, 1.4 million in Iraq alone with details of atrocities coming out daily, from the execution style murders of families to child sex trafficking of Iraqi orphans. Let’s not forget depleted uranium either. This is just one tiny drop in the bucket.
Americans are in position to complain about sensitivity to anyone.

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