And you base your argument on the biased opinions you have. Ask why people switch to GNU/Linux and the cost is almost never mentionned. Its the reason given by Windows zealot and apologist.

" don't you think the logical choice for the standard consumer is s Mac?"

No , because most people own X86 system. Its easier to switch to GNU/Linux then to go and buy a new Apple computer.

"I doubt Joe Shmoe is going to up and switch to Linux"

I dont know Joe Shmoe but there is nothing stopping him from switching to GNU/Linux if thats what he whants. With Live-CD and the Support group from corporation its easier then to try and install Windows.

"which he likely has no experience with"

Someone who as never used a computer as no experience in anything. When you try something new you dont have any experience. Switchin to Win 98 to win 2k to Win XP its always a new experience.

"He'll go to a store and likely find NO BOXES of Linux."

Thats a supply problem , if you whant a ferrari do you go to the next door wall-mart and look for one ? No you go to the Ferrari specialist.

"He'll have to figure out what to do with an ISO, or worse, how to use BiTorrent."

There are million of service specialist who offer GNU/Linux install and there is boced product and cheaptbytes like store who send you working CD.

The average people switch because GNU/Linux offer more.

- More security
- More software
- More liberty ( legal to install on 5 computer )
- More freedom ( you get to change it the way you like it )
- Etc ...

- Because they can and they whant to ...

BTW most people who use Windows do so illegally , because they cant legally afford it or they dont whant to pay for something tey already paid for. Making it Free whont change the real reason *why* people switch.

I'm sorry, but your responses are just as biased as mine, except you state your opinions as facts. All of my statements come from experience. I've been in this field, and I have seen many people attempt Linux and fail.

You make the mistake of assuming (ASSUMING!) that most people have the knowledge and experience that you do. But the truth is that my experience, as well as every article in all the trade magazines, disagree with you. Linux - of which I am a very big supporter - is certainly not an attractive option for a "normal" computer user in the US today. If it were, you'd see more vendors preinstalling it. But they aren't. Most of them are merely thinking about it or rolling it out onsie twosie. But you won't find large vendors pushing it hard to home consumers. You just won't. Just as its virtually impossible to find Linux boxed in a store. It's not supply, it's lack of demand. Those who want it that way aren't prevalent, those who don't know how to get it - and probably a more recent version - online.

BTW most people who use Windows do so illegally

Yeah, right. Care to back that up with some evidence? You're completely deluded. You're suggesting to me that the hundreds of thousands of computers sold each year are done so with illegal copies of Windows, right? That XP upgrades, sold online in droves via CDW, PC Mall, and Zones, as well as in stores like CompUSA and Best Buy -- they are all pirated, right?

No, sorry -- you're completely misinformed. Perhaps your friends pirate software like that, but most people wouldn't have the foggiest idea where to get a pirated version of Windows if it weren't for the tech savvy.

I work and live in Poland. People I know (geeks and non-geeks) who uses Windows.. well.. they all use pirate Windows. Except for my friend who got brand new laptop with OEM Windows. People consider Windows being free as in beer, really.

I'm using Linux not because of a price tag. I use it because of technological merits.

This Year GNU/Linux offer are better then last year but less then next year. Normal computer user in the US are finding out everyday that GNU/Linux is a really atractive option.

The number of OEM brand vendor installing GNU/Linux is increasing at a fast pace. There is more this year then there whas last year at this date and there are less then next year at this date.

The reality is that GNU/Linux distribution can now affor to make there own rolling out ;-) , you will see more often as time goes by ;-)

Wallmart , HP , Dell , Apple are big enough vendor for me.

The GNU/Linux box absence is due to shortage of stocks , most often then not there sold out. Just ask any computer store in your area if they can get GNU/Linux for you.

"Care to back that up with some evidence?"

Yes : Moulinneuf ( thats me ) said there are more Windows in use that are illegal then there are of legal copy.

- China
- Africa
- Middle east
- Europe

BSA Global reports. Microsoft Global reports.

There are more whitebox ( 80% of the market ) then there are of all OEM brand name put togheter.

" That XP upgrades, sold online in droves via CDW, PC Mall, and Zones, as well as in stores like CompUSA and Best Buy -- they are all pirated, right?"

You know that There is more computer OS license that where bought for 95 , 98 and 2000 then there whas for XP. If you dont , now you do. Also a couple of those where sold illegally as OEM license , OEM license are supposed to be sold with new complete assembled computer.

Dont be sorry for me , be sorry for yourself, you live in your own little rich area of teh United states and dont even see whats under your nose.

Most people dont even know they are using Illegal copies of windows , they got it from there local vendors.

Its not because your blind and assume that all your friends and familly are legal and can afford the same as you that they do. I am sure that you dont have to go far from yourself to find a pirated windows or someone with one pirated games or application.

BTW the day ATI , nvidia , Matrox and computer hardware maker started to make GNU/Linux drivers whas long past the point GNU/Linux whas Mainstream , if they keep adding staff and offer for it its because its a market that is growing. ;-)

I don't think so buddy. I work in IT and am often confronted by friends and family about windows, what to do to fix it and if there is something else they can use. I've mentioned linux and 95% of the time the people I'm talking to don't know what it is and they would never take the time to try and really learn how to use it. I can't say that I blame them either. The 'free' part always catches their attention, I've even set some folks up on it. In the end it's just as much trouble as windows because they still call you to fix this, install that or I need to to do this, what can I use?

We had a LUG at the university I attended and an install fest every semester. We tried handing out cd's with free software that existed on linux and windows, put up flyers with "FREE FREE FREE! STABLE! NO MORE VIRUSES" or whatever we thought would catch peoples attention. The crowds at every install fest were very sparse, I mean asside from the few members that would show up to do it, there would be maybe 2 or 3 folks turn up.

In the end most average people don't care about linux or any other free operating system, they care about what they bought and paid for and just want it to work. Most of them are not using windows illegaly because it came preinstalled on their laptop or desktop they purchased from whatever big name computer manufactuer that included a license with it.

Off course you where paid for the service of helping them like on windows right ? Or you made the mistake of saying Everything is free all the time ?

I know the LUG episode , you put it on a day or night everybody else is doing something else and nobody shows up ... There is more to LUG then just installing softwares too.

Not everyone buys there computer at the big name computer manufacturer. Even if I grant you that if they buy it from the store it come with a a legal OS , there is also the applications and games that get pirated too ...

Time is not a problem for GNU/Linux , its probably a good thing they dont try what you have to offer , because from the look of it your not offering the best or not even that much interested in supporting it.