I took a long time thinking of ways to fix LFR, and I came up with the best idea ever (I'll be tl;dr about this):

Fix the RNG loot system in LFR.

No, I can perfect LFR according to your train of thought.... ready?

Mail LFR loot to all players when they hit 90.

It's genius, it's what everyone ultimately wants apparently. BUT even better, what if we added CHOICES! Right because choices are always good? So you can choose NOT to have gear mailed to you and so you can still seek challenges in LFR and Normal right?

Yeah give ONE person the righnt to give the loot to whom we wants - lets try that for one year and watch how you come crawling back crying like a toddler for not getting loot EVER in your life again....

LFR is also only "failed" from your POV. Blizzard seems to be quite happy with it. (In before subscription loss count without proving what actually caused it)

Actually, if you read some of Ghostcrawler's more recent posts on Twitter, you could infer that LFR didn't turn out how Blizzard had planned and that they're adding Flex (and also F/N/H exclusive rewards) to combat this. Not that LFR is useless or should be removed, but I definitely don't think Blizzard likes where LFR ended up from a design standpoint.

Originally Posted by DrSteveBrule

TL;DR apparently you have to be a world top guild for LFR to affect you because fuck logic.

I love your name! But also, the quote you linked to is extra ironic because hardcores are the least likely to be affected, and therefore non-hardcores should have more reason to speak out against it, not less.

Last edited by Frogged; 2013-06-16 at 01:23 AM.

"I realized it is the struggle itself that is the most important. We must strive to be more than we are. It does not matter that we will never reach our ultimate goal. The effort yields its own rewards." -Data

Actually, if you read some of Ghostcrawler's more recent posts on Twitter, you could infer that LFR didn't turn out how Blizzard had planned and that they're adding Flex (and also F/N/H exclusive rewards) to combat this. Not that LFR is useless or should be removed, but I definitely don't think Blizzard likes where LFR ended up from a design standpoint.

The ONLY problem that LFR has is the community. It's the same problem that WoW has.

People are just assholes when they play WoW.

I have no doubt that Blizzard sees "people being assholes" as the real threat to WoW's longevity, and I bet that by the start of the next expansion, some things will have changed, FINALLY, in Blizzard's laissez-faire approach to assholes, and it will be harder to play WoW and be an asshole at the same time.

Giving all of that power to 1 person, in a random group is just asking for trouble. They would abuse it to no end.

Basically this.

Discipline priests are already being kicked for attonement healing. That's numerous people passing a vote kicking somebody who is ultimately doing his job to perfection.
Random people get blamed for mistakes made by others. Like tanks not knowing what to do and then blaming healers or dpsers when the raid wipes on Lei Shen, due to him being tanked wrong. I've seen it on several occasions that this has then caused random dpsers and/or healers to be kicked, because of a tank mistake.

Imagine the chaos that random 1 person would cause. I would not like to sit in a 60 min Q just to find myself with an incompetent raid leader who then kicks me when I tell him where to stuff his bullshit, when he starts kicking discpriests for dpsing or dpsers for tankwipes.

---------- Post added 2013-06-16 at 03:20 PM ----------

Originally Posted by rederoin

If they start making more 5-mans, and give us the ability to gear up trough justice points.

Otherwise it won't fix anything(although LFR does not need to be 'fixed').

I do understand what you mean...
But that would defeat the purpose of the game. You're supposed to progress through the game and get rewarded more handsomely as you approach the end. You should not be able to collect top itemlevel gear just through farming heroic dungeons.

I do understand that you want all of your 29 alts geared to 550 itemlevel... but that's just a never-ending spiral of rewarding everything to everybody without anybody doing anything.
If you want a game that actively progresses you to the end without you putting any effort into the game, then WoW is most certainly the game for you. As it already is. Nothing needs to be changed to achieve that.

Raid finder was added so that people who didn't feel they had the time to commit to real raiding could still see the content. Heroic dungeons therefore have lost their place as "lol I cba to play but still want top gear"

I do understand what you mean...
But that would defeat the purpose of the game. You're supposed to progress through the game and get rewarded more handsomely as you approach the end. You should not be able to collect top itemlevel gear just through farming heroic dungeons.

If blizzard wants to please most of its playerbase, then why would they focus the end-game on something only 10% of the playerbase?
WoW is not only about raiding.
End-game is not only about raiding.
PvE is not only about raiding.

I do understand that you want all of your 29 alts geared to 550 itemlevel... but that's just a never-ending spiral of rewarding everything to everybody without anybody doing anything.
If you want a game that actively progresses you to the end without you putting any effort into the game, then WoW is most certainly the game for you. As it already is. Nothing needs to be changed to achieve that.

No I don't want to gear them up that high.
I just want to have fun in WoW without having to do something I dislike, which are normal/hc raids(a.k.a sheduled raiding).

Raid finder was added so that people who didn't feel they had the time to commit to real raiding could still see the content. Heroic dungeons therefore have lost their place as "lol I cba to play but still want top gear"

Once again, 39 Ilvl's is a huge difference.

Only 10% of the playerbase raids normal or hc, who should they be the only ones who get end-game PvE content? or any kind of progress for that matter?

I just want to have fun in WoW without having to do something I dislike, which are normal/hc raids(a.k.a sheduled raiding).

That's my point. You don't have to do scheduled raiding. The game will progress to the point you want to be at without you playing it. WoW is argueably the only game that does that.

In 5.4 you can get all the 5.2 gear you want, without having to do scheduled raiding. You can do them all through open-raid or pugs.
The longer you wait, the more accessible it gets.

39 ilvls is a huge difference, but since you don't want to do raiding those 39 don't matter. Killing the mob in 2 shots or 1.1 shots is the same in the end.
Naturally doing quests and dungeons is easier the more gear you have, but once you're above 490 nothing outside of heroic raiding will challenge you remotely, and that is accessible by daily quests.

The more blizzard does to make the casual gamer happy, the more the alienate the hardcore gamers. So they need to keep a balance between the two. If my reward for playing 5 nights a week for 4 hours straight without fail is the same as yours for playing an hour or two whenever you feel like it, then what's the point?
If the reward is given without having fought for it, the reward ultimately loses its purpose. I.e the game loses its purpose if everybody gets everything by doing whatever they want.

What I'm trying to say is that you wouldn't want the 535 items if they were accessible through heroic dungeons. Then you'd want the next step on the ladder and so on. You're insatiable and so am I, the only difference is that I do whatever it takes to get what I want, while you don't.

That's my point. You don't have to do scheduled raiding. The game will progress to the point you want to be at without you playing it. WoW is argueably the only game that does that.

If they removed LFR without adding the justice point system back in, we would be stuck in 563 gear, which would be around 120~ ilvl's below hc raiders in 5.4

In 5.4 you can get all the 5.2 gear you want, without having to do scheduled raiding. You can do them all through open-raid or pugs.
The longer you wait, the more accessible it gets.

But we don't have that justice point system at the moment, thats my point.

39 ilvls is a huge difference, but since you don't want to do raiding those 39 don't matter. Killing the mob in 2 shots or 1.1 shots is the same in the end.
Naturally doing quests and dungeons is easier the more gear you have, but once you're above 490 nothing outside of heroic raiding will challenge you remotely, and that is accessible by daily quests.

Brawler's guild, grinding mobs(speed is also important) and solo'ing old raids are still heavily affected by gear.

The more blizzard does to make the casual gamer happy, the more the alienate the hardcore gamers. So they need to keep a balance between the two. If my reward for playing 5 nights a week for 4 hours straight without fail is the same as yours for playing an hour or two whenever you feel like it, then what's the point?
If the reward is given without having fought for it, the reward ultimately loses its purpose. I.e the game loses its purpose if everybody gets everything by doing whatever they want.

The reward is a increase of 39 Ilvl's, thats huge. Ontop of titles and mounts.

And you seem be mistaken that I'm a casual, I'm not.
I have no problem with time, I have a problem with the content, which is pug/normal/hc raiding.

LFR does also in way affect what hardcore raiders do. No, others getting shinies that are far worse than what they get is not a legitimate complaint. It does in no way make the game worse for them. Its pure elitism, and nothing more. You're not 'special snowflakes' just because you cleared a raid.

In my opinion the game should be progressive. As in; you'd farm normal dungeons in order to access heroic dungeons. You farm heroic dungeons to access a raid. You farm the raid to access the heroic raid.

All this you farm heroic dungeons and expect to be rewarded everything the game has to offer, doesn't make sense to me. And no matter how you wrap it, it still comes out sounding like the worst game ever, to me.

It boils down to, if you don't like raiding or what this consists of (scheduled playing), then you are not going to get the rewards that you would if you did. How does that not make perfect sense? If you don't go to the store, you're not going to get your groceries. You cannot pick your nails for long enough and then have your groceries conjured for you. What you can do, however, is to eat whatever you found under your nails after hours of digging.

When brawling, gear certainly matters. And that is a mistake imo. Gear should be normalized while brawling, just like in challenge modes and pvp. But a key aspect to raiding is the way gear works with progression. The best guilds will be able to go through the raid with less gear than the rest of the guilds. In the same way the casual players will be able to go through the hard content, through eventually outgearing it (or outleveling it).

If you want some easy help with brawling, you could always gem and enchant your gear, just a tip. Additionally you could get more helpful professions than Herbalism and Mining. That's casual in my book... But the term has a very fluid definition.

In my opinion the game should be progressive. As in; you'd farm normal dungeons in order to access heroic dungeons. You farm heroic dungeons to access a raid. You farm the raid to access the heroic raid.

Yet less than 10% of the player base raids, many don't enjoy it or don't have the time.

Catering to 10% of your playerbase is a bad idea.

All this you farm heroic dungeons and expect to be rewarded everything the game has to offer, doesn't make sense to me. And no matter how you wrap it, it still comes out sounding like the worst game ever, to me.

What part about '39 Ilvl difference' don't you get?
'We' also don't get the titles or the mounts.

How is that 'everything'?

It boils down to, if you don't like raiding or what this consists of (scheduled playing), then you are not going to get the rewards that you would if you did. How does that not make perfect sense? If you don't go to the store, you're not going to get your groceries. You cannot pick your nails for long enough and then have your groceries conjured for you. What you can do, however, is to eat whatever you found under your nails after hours of digging.

Becease WoW shoulden't be only about raiding normal or hc.

Give me 1 valid reason why I should be stuck in 463 gear for 2 years just becease I hate normal/hc raiding.
Me getting gear that is 40~ ilvl's below hc raiders does not affect the hc raiders.

When brawling, gear certainly matters. And that is a mistake imo. Gear should be normalized while brawling, just like in challenge modes and pvp. But a key aspect to raiding is the way gear works with progression. The best guilds will be able to go through the raid with less gear than the rest of the guilds. In the same way the casual players will be able to go through the hard content, through eventually outgearing it (or outleveling it).

If you want some easy help with brawling, you could always gem and enchant your gear, just a tip. Additionally you could get more helpful professions than Herbalism and Mining. That's casual in my book... But the term has a very fluid definition.

And then I would still need gear for solo'ing raids, and blizz sure as hell is not going to nerf raids just for that reason.

Just give me 1 reason, no more, why us non-raiders should be stuck in 463 gear(that is 120~ ilvl's below SoO hc gear) because we do not enjoy raiding.
Why can't be have something time consuming that awards us gear? whats wrong with that?
Why aim the game at only at the 10% that does raid? How could a game work like that? Why should you and your raiding friends be the only ones to enjoy end-game?

The reward is a increase of 39 Ilvl's, thats huge. Ontop of titles and mounts.

LFR does also in way affect what hardcore raiders do. No, others getting shinies that are far worse than what they get is not a legitimate complaint. It does in no way make the game worse for them. Its pure elitism, and nothing more. You're not 'special snowflakes' just because you cleared a raid.

So far I've yet to see one LFR hugger agree that the rewards for Heroic/Normal are just not attractive enough for their effort.

Too much emphasis is being put on Ilvl, a title and a mount.
Ilvl is the worst because not only does it have little use outside of Raiding or Brawler's guild but of the three "rewards" it has the shortest life span. Until the next tier where Normals are only a handful of Ilvls off.

Titles are titles, who gets excited for them, really?

Mounts are great but half the time they're just recolors and let's be frank, recolors aren't one of those "I need it now!" kind of rewards.
I don't mind waiting a tier to start facerolling the achievement mounts.
Normal mode mount drops are RNG for Normal so I hardly count those as worthy of a reward for regular raiders either.