Tesco warehouse operations that they run themselves are very regulated. No skipping outside for a quick fag or disappearing when your line manager is somewhere else like in the supermarket. Any task you do in the warehouse is monitored by scanning your barcode for that specific task so the line managers have a record of your work load and task. Anyone that falls below targets gets a little chat with one of the lucky line managers who gets that job that day.

So your argument is that women working in the supermarket skive more than men skive in the warehouse. And Tesco allows these women to get away with this extra skiving because Tesco thinks - as a business we'll accept a higher level of skiving in the supermarket, it's only fair as we pay them less anyway.

You seem to assume I was talking about one sex when I was describing the staff time management in warehouses compared to store operations. I was just explaining that the warehouse staff(both male/female/gender fluid) are monitored more rigidly when it comes to productivity in warehouses over store staff(both male and female). They frequently have to work in at least 2 temperature chambers if they work in the fresh operation.

Do you think a female in a warehouse who loads 40ft trailers, unloads, scans and picks stock should get the same rate as someone who does stock counts or packs a couple of cages of stock on the shelf in store then jumps on a checkout when required?

You value physical work above technical ability?

Mon Feb 12, 2018 10:22 pm

Fingal

International Player

Joined: Thu Dec 19, 2013 2:57 amPosts: 802Location: Leinster

Re: Im beginning to dislike Women ?

Bouch wrote:

Fingal wrote:

eog wrote:

Fingal wrote:

Tesco warehouse operations that they run themselves are very regulated. No skipping outside for a quick fag or disappearing when your line manager is somewhere else like in the supermarket. Any task you do in the warehouse is monitored by scanning your barcode for that specific task so the line managers have a record of your work load and task. Anyone that falls below targets gets a little chat with one of the lucky line managers who gets that job that day.

So your argument is that women working in the supermarket skive more than men skive in the warehouse. And Tesco allows these women to get away with this extra skiving because Tesco thinks - as a business we'll accept a higher level of skiving in the supermarket, it's only fair as we pay them less anyway.

You seem to assume I was talking about one sex when I was describing the staff time management in warehouses compared to store operations. I was just explaining that the warehouse staff(both male/female/gender fluid) are monitored more rigidly when it comes to productivity in warehouses over store staff(both male and female). They frequently have to work in at least 2 temperature chambers if they work in the fresh operation.

Do you think a female in a warehouse who loads 40ft trailers, unloads, scans and picks stock should get the same rate as someone who does stock counts or packs a couple of cages of stock on the shelf in store then jumps on a checkout when required?

I'm getting pissed off listening to "well-off" women talking about discrimination and talking about sexualized inappropriate behaviour. Yes something needs to be done and yes its wrong, but even the grey areas have become black, people are talking about signing a contract before having sex! Would suggesting the need for a contract itself be inappropriate as it would make a woman uncomfortable. It appears that the main women complaining about their lot are doing rather well......very highly paid capitalist women are not as highly paid as very highly paid men, well tough shit there's poverty all around us, old people in agony waiting for knees and hips they want "the market" to decide everything except women's wages. Its just that there is some much injustice and corruption in this country the bad beat that women occasionally get is low on my list of priorities. We sell arms to the Saudis who use them to bomb civilians in Yemen into mass starvation and cholera, hardly makes the news, however, a hand placed on a knee in parliament is headline news.

I don't think a man is better than a woman, indeed i spend half my life ingratiating myself to me wife merely for her to talk to me in a civil manner. I enjoy women's sport, i have worked with women and they are just as likely to be fantastic at their jobs as men. I respect women and have no issue in working under a woman (in any sense).

You never see an attractive young man married to a rich unattractive older woman

The way to shut them up is to remind them that the life chances of a young man growing up in poverty are far, far worse than a young girl growing up in a middle class family. That hits all the buttons

Something which folks dont want accept, and I dont like raising it because it makes me sound national front UKIP, but the lowest attainers at 16 are young white men from poor urban backgrounds

I'm getting pissed off listening to "well-off" women talking about discrimination and talking about sexualized inappropriate behaviour. Yes something needs to be done and yes its wrong, but even the grey areas have become black, people are talking about signing a contract before having sex! Would suggesting the need for a contract itself be inappropriate as it would make a woman uncomfortable. It appears that the main women complaining about their lot are doing rather well......very highly paid capitalist women are not as highly paid as very highly paid men, well tough shit there's poverty all around us, old people in agony waiting for knees and hips they want "the market" to decide everything except women's wages. Its just that there is some much injustice and corruption in this country the bad beat that women occasionally get is low on my list of priorities. We sell arms to the Saudis who use them to bomb civilians in Yemen into mass starvation and cholera, hardly makes the news, however, a hand placed on a knee in parliament is headline news.

I don't think a man is better than a woman, indeed i spend half my life ingratiating myself to me wife merely for her to talk to me in a civil manner. I enjoy women's sport, i have worked with women and they are just as likely to be fantastic at their jobs as men. I respect women and have no issue in working under a woman (in any sense).

You never see an attractive young man married to a rich unattractive older woman

The way to shut them up is to remind them that the life chances of a young man growing up in poverty are far, far worse than a young girl growing up in a middle class family. That hits all the buttons

Something which folks dont want accept, and I dont like raising it because it makes me sound national front UKIP, but the lowest attainers at 16 are young white men from poor urban backgrounds

Tue Feb 13, 2018 12:47 am

Bouch

World XV Player

Joined: Fri Jul 22, 2011 6:24 pmPosts: 44920Location: Llanharan

Re: Im beginning to dislike Women ?

Fingal wrote:

Bouch wrote:

You value physical work above technical ability?

Warehouse work requires greater technical ability.

Interesting thought that.

Who told you?

Tue Feb 13, 2018 5:51 am

Fingal

International Player

Joined: Thu Dec 19, 2013 2:57 amPosts: 802Location: Leinster

Re: Im beginning to dislike Women ?

Bouch wrote:

Fingal wrote:

Bouch wrote:

You value physical work above technical ability?

Warehouse work requires greater technical ability.

Interesting thought that.

Who told you?

Well Bouch, how about you tell us first why you think a Tesco Supermarket worker is a more technical job than a Tesco warehouse worker? Now no cutting and pasting, all your own thinking.

Tue Feb 13, 2018 1:00 pm

eog

International Player

Joined: Wed Dec 11, 2013 4:24 pmPosts: 1143

Re: Im beginning to dislike Women ?

Blindside wrote:

eog wrote:

eborr wrote:

The way to shut them up is to remind them that the life chances of a young man growing up in poverty are far, far worse than a young girl growing up in a middle class family. That hits all the buttons

Not really a button hitter.To understand the issue you need to think about the life chances afforded young women growing up in poverty; working class families; middle class families compared to young men growing up in similar circumstances. Generally for each group the young women will have less life chances than the young men.

For example working class men who get p!ssed off that middle class women are doing better than them are missing the bigger issue. Those working class men should be getting p!ssed off that working class women are doing less well than working class men are.

We are kind of getting closer to the point here! Why is it a bigger issue? Yes its an issue, but if working-class men and women have far fewer opportunities in life because of the class system and unfairness with the way society treats its citizens that is the main issue. There is legislation in place to address discrimination between the sexes, but it is a political philosophy to except or not except equality of opportunity. It is made a bigger issue because it masks the total inequality of opportunity within our society. Those who dictate the rules for health and education need not even use the state system.

Why is it a bigger issue?This discussion has criticsed middle class women for demanding equivalent pay as middle class men. To me this seems to have come at least in part from a working class male perspective. I think that this criticism is misplaced. Of course there are other wider issues but it's pay rates that the discussion has focused on. Based on that.

An attitude that argues that we should accept and even make excuses for women getting paid less than men is most disadvantageous not to the middle class but to those families whose incomes are at the lower end of the pay scale. That is most likely working class families.

Make society as a whole fairer, definately and the sooner the better but there's no reason to dismiss equality of pay because it's just a part of that whole. An obvious benefit to the whole is that equalising pay can happen very quickly and so immediately benefit currently disadvantaged individuals and families.

Tue Feb 13, 2018 2:12 pm

eog

International Player

Joined: Wed Dec 11, 2013 4:24 pmPosts: 1143

Re: Im beginning to dislike Women ?

[quote="FingalYou seem to assume I was talking about one sex this whole discussion is based on the fact that warehouse staff are mostly men and store staff are mostly women when I was describing the staff time management in warehouses compared to store operations. I was just explaining that the warehouse staff(both male/female/gender fluid) are monitored more rigidly when it comes to productivity in warehouses over store staff(both male and female). In store staff are highly monitored but in different ways. All work at the checkout tills is rigidly monitored with every transaction attributed to an individual and productivity/correct proceedure recorded. They frequently have to work in at least 2 temperature chambers if they work in the fresh operation.

Do you think a female in a warehouse who loads 40ft trailers, unloads, scans and picks stock should get the same rate as someone who does stock counts or packs a couple of cages of stock on the shelf in store then jumps on a checkout when required?[/quote]

If the jobs are equivalent yes. You think scanning stock in a warehouse should be more highly paid that scanning stock in the store. Loading stock into a lorry should be more highly paid than loading stock onto shelves. Picking stock should be more highly paid than dealing with customers or using a checkout till. Based on what? That the jobs are different or just a bit different is logic that can be used for store staff to be paid more than warehouse staff

Tue Feb 13, 2018 2:34 pm

Blindside

World XV Player

Joined: Fri Dec 05, 2008 12:39 amPosts: 11747Location: Neath Valley

Re: Im beginning to dislike Women ?

eog wrote:

Blindside wrote:

eog wrote:

eborr wrote:

The way to shut them up is to remind them that the life chances of a young man growing up in poverty are far, far worse than a young girl growing up in a middle class family. That hits all the buttons

Not really a button hitter.To understand the issue you need to think about the life chances afforded young women growing up in poverty; working class families; middle class families compared to young men growing up in similar circumstances. Generally for each group the young women will have less life chances than the young men.

For example working class men who get p!ssed off that middle class women are doing better than them are missing the bigger issue. Those working class men should be getting p!ssed off that working class women are doing less well than working class men are.

We are kind of getting closer to the point here! Why is it a bigger issue? Yes its an issue, but if working-class men and women have far fewer opportunities in life because of the class system and unfairness with the way society treats its citizens that is the main issue. There is legislation in place to address discrimination between the sexes, but it is a political philosophy to except or not except equality of opportunity. It is made a bigger issue because it masks the total inequality of opportunity within our society. Those who dictate the rules for health and education need not even use the state system.

Why is it a bigger issue?This discussion has criticsed middle class women for demanding equivalent pay as middle class men. To me this seems to have come at least in part from a working class male perspective. I think that this criticism is misplaced. Of course there are other wider issues but it's pay rates that the discussion has focused on. Based on that.

An attitude that argues that we should accept and even make excuses for women getting paid less than men is most disadvantageous not to the middle class but to those families whose incomes are at the lower end of the pay scale. That is most likely working class families.

Make society as a whole fairer, definately and the sooner the better but there's no reason to dismiss equality of pay because it's just a part of that whole. An obvious benefit to the whole is that equalising pay can happen very quickly and so immediately benefit currently disadvantaged individuals and families.

My point is just that articulate middle-class women champion the rights of women, who already have a right to equality, its virtually a done deal the legislation exists. Yet these women and indeed everyone else who is jumping on the self-righteous bandwagon with regards the interaction between men and women. The exposure it is given is out of sink with the size of the problem, particularly regards the deep-seated issues that divide this country and the opportunities, or indeed lack opportunities that many sections of society face. Homeownership, decent rental housing, healthcare, meaningful employment, all dwarf the problem, indeed they are problems that affect women.

To dislike it because it is seen as a means of exposure that offends very few people. Its a safe subject in that the vast majority except that women are equal to men, people are surfing the wave of sexual inequality for their own ends. Its a serious issue that as the effect of being used as a distraction to real issues that affect both men and women.

_________________"Business!' cried the Ghost, wringing its hands again. "Mankind was my business; charity, mercy, forbearance, and benevolence, were, all, my business. The deals of my trade were but a drop of water in the comprehensive ocean of my business!”“None are so hopelessly enslaved as those who falsely believe they are free.”"The price of anything is the amount of life you exchange for

Tue Feb 13, 2018 2:56 pm

eog

International Player

Joined: Wed Dec 11, 2013 4:24 pmPosts: 1143

Re: Im beginning to dislike Women ?

eborr wrote:

eborr wrote:

The way to shut them up is to remind them that the life chances of a young man growing up in poverty are far, far worse than a young girl growing up in a middle class family. That hits all the buttons

Something which folks dont want accept, and I dont like raising it because it makes me sound national front UKIP, but the lowest attainers at 16 are young white men from poor urban backgrounds

But that's only relevant to the idea that women who grow up in middle class families are better off than men who grow up in poverty stricken families. Everyone agrees that that's the case.

As you say young white men from poor urban backgrounds are likely to be even lower attainers than young white women from poor urban backgrounds. However if they gain employment they're likely to get higher pay than those women receive for doing equivalent jobs.

Tue Feb 13, 2018 2:56 pm

eog

International Player

Joined: Wed Dec 11, 2013 4:24 pmPosts: 1143

Re: Im beginning to dislike Women ?

Blindside wrote:

My point is just that articulate middle-class women champion the rights of women, That's just the way it is. Not to pick on articulate middle-class women who champion the rights of women but originally the Suffragettes weren't aiming for votes for all women. These women may p1ss you off but history shows that depending on articulate middle (or working class) men to champion the rights of women isn't very fruitful. who already have a right to equality, But in a lot of cases not the reality its virtually a done deal the legislation exists. Yet these women and indeed everyone else who is jumping on the self-righteous bandwagon with regards the interaction between men and women. The exposure it is given is out of sink with the size of the problem, the public relish conflict and controversy and the TV and Media oblige whatever the issueparticularly regards the deep-seated issues that divide this country and the opportunities, or indeed lack opportunities that many sections of society face. Homeownership, decent rental housing, healthcare, meaningful employment, all dwarf the problem, indeed they are problems that affect women. Well I'm concentrating here on the issue of pay rates. I think they are part of the overall problem/solution and are worth addressing. That pay rates aren't a panacea or that there is other stuff about men and women in society going on or that there are issue surfers doesn't detract from that.

To dislike it because it is seen as a means of exposure that offends very few people. Its a safe subject in that the vast majority except that women are equal to men, people are surfing the wave of sexual inequality for their own ends. Its a serious issue that as the effect of being used as a distraction to real issues that affect both men and women.

Are you sure it's not because you think that you, your views or your place in society is threatened by change. I'm not being deliberately provocative here but change is continually happening and sometimes it presses our buttons.

Tue Feb 13, 2018 3:27 pm

trampie

World XV Player

Joined: Sun Aug 12, 2007 11:09 amPosts: 13630

Re: Im beginning to dislike Women ?

Blindside wrote:

eog wrote:

Blindside wrote:

eog wrote:

eborr wrote:

The way to shut them up is to remind them that the life chances of a young man growing up in poverty are far, far worse than a young girl growing up in a middle class family. That hits all the buttons

Not really a button hitter.To understand the issue you need to think about the life chances afforded young women growing up in poverty; working class families; middle class families compared to young men growing up in similar circumstances. Generally for each group the young women will have less life chances than the young men.

For example working class men who get p!ssed off that middle class women are doing better than them are missing the bigger issue. Those working class men should be getting p!ssed off that working class women are doing less well than working class men are.

We are kind of getting closer to the point here! Why is it a bigger issue? Yes its an issue, but if working-class men and women have far fewer opportunities in life because of the class system and unfairness with the way society treats its citizens that is the main issue. There is legislation in place to address discrimination between the sexes, but it is a political philosophy to except or not except equality of opportunity. It is made a bigger issue because it masks the total inequality of opportunity within our society. Those who dictate the rules for health and education need not even use the state system.

Why is it a bigger issue?This discussion has criticsed middle class women for demanding equivalent pay as middle class men. To me this seems to have come at least in part from a working class male perspective. I think that this criticism is misplaced. Of course there are other wider issues but it's pay rates that the discussion has focused on. Based on that.

An attitude that argues that we should accept and even make excuses for women getting paid less than men is most disadvantageous not to the middle class but to those families whose incomes are at the lower end of the pay scale. That is most likely working class families.

Make society as a whole fairer, definately and the sooner the better but there's no reason to dismiss equality of pay because it's just a part of that whole. An obvious benefit to the whole is that equalising pay can happen very quickly and so immediately benefit currently disadvantaged individuals and families.

My point is just that articulate middle-class women champion the rights of women, who already have a right to equality, its virtually a done deal the legislation exists. Yet these women and indeed everyone else who is jumping on the self-righteous bandwagon with regards the interaction between men and women. The exposure it is given is out of sink with the size of the problem, particularly regards the deep-seated issues that divide this country and the opportunities, or indeed lack opportunities that many sections of society face. Homeownership, decent rental housing, healthcare, meaningful employment, all dwarf the problem, indeed they are problems that affect women.

To dislike it because it is seen as a means of exposure that offends very few people. Its a safe subject in that the vast majority except that women are equal to men, people are surfing the wave of sexual inequality for their own ends. Its a serious issue that as the effect of being used as a distraction to real issues that affect both men and women.

I hear you Blindside, there is a lot of talk in bar rooms across the land about these women they are referred to as 'wimmin' by the way, it's a description of upwardly mobile, middle to upper class, well paid females that use their gender and sight descrimination to get on, they are to be feared, they are a sisterhood just like the masons used to be, they look out for and promote each other and some say they hate men .

Remember the term 'wimmin' Blindside, beware the wimmin in powerful positions in Plaid and Labour, in that consultancy firm that advises politicians, have you heard of McEvoy and Sargeant ? they are in the establishment like the Beeb, they are so powerful and have so many connections that if you cross them you are done for.

It's nothing to do with equality at that high level of society it's to do with self interest, ego, promotion, power.

I've always championed women's rights and equality but beware of the group who have been christened as the ,'wimmin' they ain't fighting for women's rights in general they are fighting for themselves.

_________________As a scummer once said 'we dont produce anything and live meaningless lives doing meaningless jobs just to payback money that never really existed in the first place'.

Tue Feb 13, 2018 3:43 pm

Blindside

World XV Player

Joined: Fri Dec 05, 2008 12:39 amPosts: 11747Location: Neath Valley

Re: Im beginning to dislike Women ?

eog wrote:

Blindside wrote:

My point is just that articulate middle-class women champion the rights of women, That's just the way it is. Not to pick on articulate middle-class women who champion the rights of women but originally the Suffragettes weren't aiming for votes for all women. These women may p1ss you off but history shows that depending on articulate middle (or working class) men to champion the rights of women isn't very fruitful. who already have a right to equality, But in a lot of cases not the reality its virtually a done deal the legislation exists. Yet these women and indeed everyone else who is jumping on the self-righteous bandwagon with regards the interaction between men and women. The exposure it is given is out of sink with the size of the problem, the public relish conflict and controversy and the TV and Media oblige whatever the issueparticularly regards the deep-seated issues that divide this country and the opportunities, or indeed lack opportunities that many sections of society face. Homeownership, decent rental housing, healthcare, meaningful employment, all dwarf the problem, indeed they are problems that affect women. Well I'm concentrating here on the issue of pay rates. I think they are part of the overall problem/solution and are worth addressing. That pay rates aren't a panacea or that there is other stuff about men and women in society going on or that there are issue surfers doesn't detract from that.

To dislike it because it is seen as a means of exposure that offends very few people. Its a safe subject in that the vast majority except that women are equal to men, people are surfing the wave of sexual inequality for their own ends. Its a serious issue that as the effect of being used as a distraction to real issues that affect both men and women.

Are you sure it's not because you think that you, your views or your place in society is threatened by change. I'm not being deliberately provocative here but change is continually happening and sometimes it presses our buttons.

I dont really have a place in society, im retired, fairly fit (54) not looking for a job and not on any form of benefit. I'm not sure i even show up as a statistic I have a place in my community, but not really my society. I've worked in coal mining and with women and under women in secure accommodation. I have no issue with women, it is not something a think about, I accept the equality as natural.

I disagree totally with your premise that "change" is continually happening, well progressive change anyway. There is far to little change far too little evolution of universal rights and opportunities. As inequality grows we discuss one form of inequality to mask the real issues that divide and threaten us (women and men). Children are going to school hungry and a relatively rich middle-class woman on a couple of hundred thousand pounds a year is crying because a man earns more than her. Excuse me if i dont pace around the house in indignation.It may be wrong, but its like pulling the dog into the boat and leaving the child to drown.

_________________"Business!' cried the Ghost, wringing its hands again. "Mankind was my business; charity, mercy, forbearance, and benevolence, were, all, my business. The deals of my trade were but a drop of water in the comprehensive ocean of my business!”“None are so hopelessly enslaved as those who falsely believe they are free.”"The price of anything is the amount of life you exchange for

Tue Feb 13, 2018 4:24 pm

Fingal

International Player

Joined: Thu Dec 19, 2013 2:57 amPosts: 802Location: Leinster

Re: Im beginning to dislike Women ?

eog wrote:

[quote="FingalYou seem to assume I was talking about one sex this whole discussion is based on the fact that warehouse staff are mostly men and store staff are mostly women when I was describing the staff time management in warehouses compared to store operations. I was just explaining that the warehouse staff(both male/female/gender fluid) are monitored more rigidly when it comes to productivity in warehouses over store staff(both male and female). In store staff are highly monitored but in different ways. All work at the checkout tills is rigidly monitored with every transaction attributed to an individual and productivity/correct proceedure recorded. They frequently have to work in at least 2 temperature chambers if they work in the fresh operation.

Do you think a female in a warehouse who loads 40ft trailers, unloads, scans and picks stock should get the same rate as someone who does stock counts or packs a couple of cages of stock on the shelf in store then jumps on a checkout when required?

If the jobs are equivalent yes. You think scanning stock in a warehouse should be more highly paid that scanning stock in the store. Loading stock into a lorry should be more highly paid than loading stock onto shelves. Picking stock should be more highly paid than dealing with customers or using a checkout till. Based on what? That the jobs are different or just a bit different is logic that can be used for store staff to be paid more than warehouse staff[/quote]

They aren't. Take scanning, In the supermarket, stock is scanned at the checkout or by stock control who scan system generated stock counts and waste which is scanned out of stock. Probably the hardest part is the stock count because a diligent stock checker will have to check the store room which can be a mess, then the section in store and any areas that the product may be on promo on the store floor. Specialist sections like Produce will do their own stock counts and waste. With JIT deliveries on the fresh side stock control should really only have to count stock in the chill cabinets and maybe a cage of the best sellers in the fridge out back. Sure its cold but at least you have a warm aisle. By the way its the hard pressed checkout supervisor and customer services desk that have to deal with the worst of customers and I agree that they should be paid more.

In the warehouse you have goods in scanning. Its blind scanning, the warehouse operative is given a load to scan, all they have to work with is the total number of units. Now those units could be anything from 10kg bags of spuds to crates of salad packs. With mixed pallets they have to breakdown the load first which involves lugging empty pallets about and re-stacking the delivery on the pallets. When the scanner finishes the breaking down they have to count the stock and assign a grid location. Then they have to get any code date issues signed off by QA and any shorts and overs are signed off by the goods in line manager. All of this is done under pressure to get the load scanned into stock as quick as possible so pickers can be assigned to start picking the load. The goods in scanner is a trained MHE driver too as with some loads they have to do the unloading themselves. In fresh distribution centres your working in a 5oC chamber and an ambient chamber with a rotating shifts between earlies, lates and a couple of weeks of nights in that rotation cycle.

That's only one warehouse scanning role, you have picking and loading tasks were scanning is involved and both those tasks are more physical and technical than the majority of shop side roles.

Tue Feb 13, 2018 4:52 pm

Bouch

World XV Player

Joined: Fri Jul 22, 2011 6:24 pmPosts: 44920Location: Llanharan

Re: Im beginning to dislike Women ?

Fingal wrote:

Bouch wrote:

Fingal wrote:

Bouch wrote:

You value physical work above technical ability?

Warehouse work requires greater technical ability.

Interesting thought that.

Who told you?

Well Bouch, how about you tell us first why you think a Tesco Supermarket worker is a more technical job than a Tesco warehouse worker? Now no cutting and pasting, all your own thinking.

Tell you what, I was involved in all sorts of negotiations and appraisals, Fingal.

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