Safety & Compliance

Ford: Moisture in Cooler Causing Loss of Power in F-150 EcoBoost Engines

Customer complaints about loss of power with Ford’s EcoBoost V-6 engine in its F-150 pickups, reported by the general news media over the Memorial Day weekend, stem from moisture accumulation in the trucks’ charge-air cooler, Ford Motor Co. says. Dealers have been informed of a fix and will do the work under warranty.

The National Highway Transportation Safety Administration announced it is investigating loss-of-power incidents that are the subject of 95 complaints and two lawsuits. Stumbling under hard acceleration or heavy loads can be a safety concern, the agency said, but no injuries have been reported.

The F-150 is the most popular pickup in America. Most are sold for personal use, but many are also used as work trucks.

The EcoBoost V-6 is chosen by 40% or more of F-150 buyers, the company has said. Ford advertises it as having V-8 power with six-cylinder fuel economy. But complaints about the truck and the engine have been circulating on the internet.

Ford notified dealers of a fix in a technical service bulletin, said spokesperson Kelli Felker. However, new complaints are surfacing from owners who had work done under bulletin 12-10-19, and who say the performance problems persist.

“The most recent [technical service bulletin] addresses a condition related to moisture accumulation in the charge-air cooler (CAC) during extended highway driving in humid or damp conditions in 2011-2012 MY F-150s equipped with a 3.5L gasoline turbocharged direct injection engine,” she told TruckingInfo. “The TSB recommends repairing the condition by reprogramming the powertrain control module, installing a new CAC and an air deflector plate.”

The TSB also instructs mechanics to replace one of the engine’s catalytic converters. Running changes were made to F-150s being assembled, according to news reports.

Some say it's not working

On Wednesday, an owner wrote that work under the service bulletin did not solve problems on his F-150.

“My family and I were traveling in heavy rain on I-65 in Birmingham, Ala.,” said the owner from Evansville, Ind., on the website www.arfc.com. “I pulled into the far left lane to pass slower vehicles. When I accelerated the truck began to shake violently and rapidly lose speed and power. Several vehicles including a semi had to take evasive action to avoid a collision.”

It happened again on the family’s trip home. The owner said he took his truck to a dealer, which made repairs prescribed by the service bulletin. But the problem happened twice more on a highway near home.

“Ford has acknowledged the issue but has informed me that there is nothing they can do at this time,” the owner said. “They offered to send me a buy-back offer within 10 days, and after 20 days and several phone calls, today [May 28], they informed me that they are unable to buy back my truck.

“They also told me that I would have to live with the issue until (if) they come up with a fix. I am unwilling to put my family at risk.”

The organization running the website, Auto Recalls for Consumers, said that owner’s complaint is one of 124 it has received about the 2012 Ford F-150. Another website, www.F150Forum.com, has more.

“You go to pass a vehicle and the engine all but gives up the ghost,” wrote one forum member, who said his truck has about 27,000 miles. “It starts shaking violently and feels like every nut and bolt is coming loose. This has happened numerous times to me. Each time I’m told that nothing shows up on the computer. It happened again recently, and I have it on video this time.”

Another forum member said last year that at about 20,000 miles, his EcoBoost engine “started missing while sitting at idle,” and “sometimes while getting onto an onramp and gassing the truck hard it would fall on its face and return to idle (yes, while merging) and you would have to let off the gas and slowly reapply.”

The engine also lost power while he was pulling a trailer, the member said. His dealer was not able to fix the problem, even after having the truck for a week. At that time, service people told him that they were expecting a bulletin from Ford on it.

The two Ohio lawsuits against Ford include an F-150 owner who claims he had the same problems with his 3.5-liter EcoBoost V-6, the Associated Press reported last Friday. A married couple sued over alleged defects with the same EcoBoost engine in a Ford Taurus SHO sedan. Problems happen at highway speeds, which can put plaintiffs in danger, the F-150 suit says.

Ford says its policy is not to comment on pending litigation.

At this point there is no recall on the problem. Felker, the Ford spokesperson, did not comment on reports of post-repair recurrences.

As for repair costs, “The majority of these vehicles are expected to still be under warranty,” she said.

Comments

We have two F250's in our fleet with similiar problem. Engine is not Eco Boost .

2.Dan Milosevich[ May 30, 2013 @ 12:21PM ]

I had the same problem as the gentleman has written about on acceleration she just stops start shaking to let off of it that I go down and ease back and comes back on does not do it all the time

3.Mark[ June 02, 2013 @ 03:55PM ]

Going with the 5.0 over the 3.5 ecoboost should be a no brainer. The gas mileage difference is negligible on its face and over the life of the vehicle. The ecoboost's increase in HP/torque obtained by direct injection, twin turbos, variable timing, etc., comes at the risk of the unproven design rather than overall displacement. Also, an F150 is not a heavy duty truck designed for big towing, that is better suited to F250s and up with the 6.2 or diesel. Anyway, who wants a V6 in a full sized truck anyway?

4.Al [ June 03, 2013 @ 10:47AM ]

The story deoicted by the gentleman form Indiana in the initial article has happened to me three (3) times in my 2012 F150 crew cab with the 3.5L EcoBoost. All three times the truck shook violently, stuttered, and loss almost totally all power. After reading about the fixes, by Ford, not fixing the problem I do not know what to do. I have been a Ford man for, many, many years and now that I am retiring soon and want to travel I have doubts about my Ford F150 or and Ford product with the 3.5L EcoBoost engine. Other than this problem I like the 3.5L EcoBoost engine. Come on Ford engineers........get this problem solved before it is too late. Lives are at stake here needless to say anything about the potential of millions of dollars. Ford is wrong in this case and the THEY should setup and get this serious problem corrected before it IS too late.

5.mike Norris[ June 19, 2013 @ 05:11AM ]

Good luck had 6.0 that was never fixed correctly and now my 5.4 is in the shop for can phasers at60850 miles......bye bye ford after 15 years or fords

6.LARRY[ June 22, 2013 @ 06:53PM ]

DROVE FROM PA TO NC ON I95 NO PROBLEMS. ON WAY BACK WHILE IN NC I WENT TO PASS ON I95 AND TRUCK STARTED TO MISS AND LOSS ALL POWER. HAD TO QUICKLY LET OFF FUEL AND REPEATEDLY TRY TO REAPPLY FUEL SLOWLY. FINALLY GOT TRUCK TO START PICKING UP POWER BUT STILL HAD MISS. TOOK ABOUT 30 MILES TO CLEAR UP THE PROBLEM. SOUNDS LIKE THE HUMIDITY IN NC AFFECTED THE ENGINE.

7.steve[ July 09, 2013 @ 07:53PM ]

Just had the same issue on a long drive from TN to FL on vacation. Drove thru heavy rain off and on for 8 hours. Pulled into gas station for a stretch, then when pulling out and accelerating truck started shaking and missing badly. Check engine light flashed repeatedly indicating a missfire. Puled over immediately and shut off engine. Cranked back up and check engine light was on solid. Truck seemed to run ok, but was underpowered somewhat. Took it to dealer in Destin and they applied fixes due to moisture in CAC. We will see if the fixes work as I drive my truck on extended trips for work.

8.Julian[ July 17, 2013 @ 01:11PM ]

I have a 2011 f150 ecoboost at about 19, 800 miles and have not experienced the issue yet. But I did notice that my small hose on the turbo air intake pops off and then I lose power on acceleration I put a screw clamp on it and now it stays put. This could be how the moistuer is getting in. The hose is about 1/2 inch in diamater and runs off the large intake tube.

9.matt[ July 25, 2013 @ 06:41AM ]

I have had my f150 ecoboost for about 3 years now I got it in late 2011 but the truck year is a 2012 and so far we have 19000 very hard miles on the truck and not a single problem but now I'm scared of this happening, we have taken a few long road trips with it and no problem, I have pulled some car trailers with 8000 pound machines and pulls perfect, I will continue to buy fords in which I have a 99 f250 with 160xxx, a 2010 escape with 70xxx a 06 mustang with 15xxx and a 07 mustang with 80xxx and not a problem

10.Ken Smith[ August 13, 2013 @ 08:31AM ]

My 2011 ecoboost FX4 has the same problem, it shudders when i accelerate hard to pass and looses power. Mine truck is doing this on clear hot sunny days on the highway, No rain at all!!! There has also been some sort of weird sound also that appears to be coming form the turbo, on start ups and take offsé

11.Jeff[ August 15, 2013 @ 10:26PM ]

I have a 2012 ecoboost having the same problems, it shutters ,looses power almost stalling completely out. I have had it to the dealer 3 times and they still have not got it fixed. They put fords retro fixes on then send me on my way . The last one was a real joke , a thin piece of plastic stuck on the front of CAC (Just yesterday) . Ran fine yesterday but started again on my way to work today. I'm going to file with the NTSB and may join in the suits!

12.Rick[ August 19, 2013 @ 07:00PM ]

The exact same thing happened with me yesterday. I have a 2013 ecoboost f150 and was accelerating to get on expressway, check engine symbol flashed and it lost power. Power did return. Luckily me and my son were not put in danger. This is the first ford I have owned since my 1974 maverick hope I didn't make mistake.

13.Michael[ August 26, 2013 @ 07:46PM ]

My mother's F 150 2011 just started this problem two week's ago on her way from Florida to Michigan, she called me to talk to the dealers service tech. He knew of the problem. I have a 2011 F 150. Brother in-law has a 2011 F150 we both had the same problem.I can say this,I, my wife, Brother in-law, father in-law, and more family members. All totalling more than 200 years of service for Ford's.She is supporting all of us by buying a Ford. I just hope Ford supports her and repairs the problem. Sincerely a loyal Ford family

14.Hugh Houston[ August 28, 2013 @ 01:19PM ]

My 2013 F-150 ecoboost has lost power twice when accelerating. No rain, or contamination just ignition interruption and loss of power. Also the m.p.g. is not even close to what was advertised.

15.Hugh Houston[ August 28, 2013 @ 01:19PM ]

My 2013 F-150 ecoboost has lost power twice when accelerating. No rain, or contamination just ignition interruption and loss of power. Also the m.p.g. is not even close to what was advertised.

16.Gary[ August 28, 2013 @ 07:59PM ]

I have a 2012 f150 crew 4x4 it's been to two different dealerships and has had both tsb's the first a air deflector on top on the new cac and then a different plastic deflector that literally has double sides tape that sticks to the bottom if the cac. Still stumbles and feels like no power. Like the turbo don't even work at all. You can hear it but you can't feel it. After the very first power failure running 70 on the interstate the power loss dropped me to 40 mph and a 18 wheeler almost rearended me. Oh yeah and gas mileage pssst it started out at around 19 to 20 on the interstate at a steady 70 mph after the power failure. I'm lucky to get 14 and that at 50mpg and no a/c. There is more going in with these trucks than a cheap air deflector. My cousin has a friend that had the same problem and ford of Macon in Georgia replaced the computer and he said that fixed the problem. I'm not sure if that's true or not. But what ford is doing isn't working so why not give it a try. Although I haven't heard of ford stating this in any tsb's or recalls. I use to love this truck but honestly I'm starting to hate it. I filed with NHTSA and also a lemon law attorney. Go report your vehicle to the NHTSA. Lets get something done. These trucks cost way to much for us. Not to mention the safety of our family that rides with us in this truck.

17.James Lawton[ August 31, 2013 @ 05:55PM ]

I have a 2013 crew cab platinum ecoboost with 5,400 miles on it if this veery I would not even bother to take it back to be fixed and I would even tell them I would just take the hit and get a 5.0 Mortor because its the best looking truck on the road and I am sure you all agree with that

18.Jeff Rose[ September 09, 2013 @ 04:33AM ]

I just recently had the same issue with my 2011 F-150. I bought it used with 16,500 miles on it, I currently have 24,500 miles on it. Labor Day my wife and I were traveling home from a long weekend in Western PA. It had rained during the day and was raining pretty hard while driving through the Allegheny Forest. We had no problems to speak of. Once we got on Rte. 80 headed east things settled down rain wise it had stopped and the sun came out. I would say an hour later I pulled out to pass a tractor-trailer and when I accelerated the engine seemed to misfire, the engine light came on and began to flash and the truck started shuddering. I was able to back down and slowly take the upcoming exit and pull off the road. I did not shut the engine off I put it Park and got out to visually inspect. While I was doing a walk around my wife told me the engine light stopped flashing. We drove home with no further issues. I contacted my dealer and they are ordering a new inter cooler for it only time will tell if that was the cause. I will note it had not been raining for at least an hour when this took place.

19.gary[ September 10, 2013 @ 01:55PM ]

I have a 2011 with 23000 miles. Same problem as every one else. I would try trade it for a new chevy with a 5.3, but I'm sure chevy dealers are reading these complaints. Tuff situation.

20.Eric[ September 10, 2013 @ 07:35PM ]

I have a 2012 fx4 eco with 17k miles......no problems to speak of what so ever. I love this thing. I hope nothing happens to mine and hope they find a fix for all the others with problems

21.Anthony istre[ September 23, 2013 @ 09:54AM ]

My truck did really good until it reached 66,000 miles it started to do the same thing everyone is complaining about brought it to the dealer they said I needed to change the spark plugs I did that n now it is even worse. Don't know what I am gonna so to get it fixed. Might try a different dealership. To see if they can get it fixed. B

22.Adam[ October 01, 2013 @ 05:12PM ]

No way is lack of full acceleration a safety hazard! If the truck decelerated rapidly... Then yes but lack of acceleration is just like coasting, so if some guy rear ends you because of stuttering then he was too close to begin with.

23.Peter[ October 02, 2013 @ 01:46AM ]

I have a 2011 F150 ecoboost. I have experienced extreme loss of power, violent shaking and back firing and engine light blinking now at least 4 different times. All of these times has occurred in heavy rain when towing a trailer. I will press on the gas to pass or to go up a hill and the truck basically shuts down and goes into a limp mode. The engine light never stays on. Ive taken my truck in and my dealer pretended that they've never even heard of the problem. Am I the only one in Kingston Ontario to experience this? I doubt it very much. The most recent time I've brought the truck in was Sept 2013. I even had several articles printed off the web to show the dealer. The dealer said there's no fix as of yet and told me to keep checking the internet. Not good enough. I hear of people getting new re-designed inter-coolers, a deflector plate and a computer re-program. Step up to the plate Ford and fix my problem before I pull out to pass one day and get stranded in oncoming traffic with a truck in limp mode.

24.sparky[ October 05, 2013 @ 11:56AM ]

Well fellow Ford people, It just happen to me for the first time on 10/4/2013 on my way to the U.P. in Michigan. It was raining and the dew point was around 60. I was pulling out from a rest stop on I-75 and I will tell you this, my truck was a shaking,and sputtering and yes loss of power. I was terrified that the semi that I was pulling in front of was going to smash into me, but he pulled into the far lane and honk his air horn, and I am sure he was cussing me out.. FORD PLEASE FIX THIS PROBLEM ! I sure hope I can make it back hone... lol

25.David Russ[ October 06, 2013 @ 01:37PM ]

I have a 2012 F150. This same issue has happen to me 5 different times. The first time I had 1200 miles on the truck. The truck has 25000 miles on it now I have taken it to the dealer each and every time. I did not buy a $50,000.00 truck and not be able to depend on it to pass a car. I use premium gas the last time it lost power I mashed the accelerator to the floor for 2 miles and the speed was from 43 to 47 MPH. If ford cannot fix this issue I will replace it with a new Toyota and will never purchase another FORD

26.Cody[ October 15, 2013 @ 10:36AM ]

I aswell just experienced this issue coming home from an 8 hr. Drive from Vancouver. It wasn't raining but was about 0'C outside and as I went to pass a vehicle my truck started to jerk as if the tranny was slipping it felt like. I lost my acceleration and the engine light came on flashing and put the truck into limp mode for about 2 minutes. The truck was bought in March and only has 20,000 kms on it.

27.Terry Catterall[ October 17, 2013 @ 11:39AM ]

I have a 2011 F-150 Ecoboost and at 14,000 miles it lost power going across the country on a dry day, the dealer replaced a catalytic Converter at 60,000 it threw a misfire code on Cyl 3 and had the dealer replace the coil an wire for $300.00 now a month later the same thing on Cyl 6 Misfire Code I'm not happy to say the least. For $60.00 I'll buy the coil and change it myself, seriously think twice before spending $30,000 on an F-150 Ecoboost !!

28.John [ October 19, 2013 @ 08:45AM ]

I had my 2011 Ford F150 in to the dealer because I lost power back in Aug while driving in the rain. I was merging into traffic and almost had a accident. The Ford Dealer said they had a fix for the problem and put on a deflector. Well guess what, I was driving home from a trip yesterday 18 Oct 13 and it was raining hard. I went to pass someone and once again my truck lost power and shuttered very hard. My engine light did come on and the shuttering was so hard I had to pull over. I shut off the truck to see if this would make the engine light go off, it did not work. I continued on with my driving and then tried to accelerate when the same thing happened agin, loss of power and hard shaking. I had to drive very slow for 4 hours before I made it home. This is a very serious problem and Ford is going to pay for not fixing this problem. It will be to late when we loss a life. To the dealer on Monday to have them tell me a bunch of B.S. First and last Ford. Everyone should get together and put in a mass lawsuit against Ford. Some Lawyer out there maybe able to help out alot of people who got ripped off money for a vehicle. Thanks

29.Daniel Webster[ October 23, 2013 @ 06:00PM ]

I have a 2011 f150 ecoboost. I experienced the same thing twice the other day. Rainy, cruise on for 25-30 miles. Went to punch it to pass someone, nothing, loss of power. Happened twice in one trip. I have 23k miles on it. I nearly caused an accident both times. My check engine light has been on and off since then. I took it to Al Meyer Ford they said it would be 2-3 days before they could even look at it and that they hadn't heard of this ever happening before. Not true, I have a personal friend who brought his ford f150 ecoboost into this same dealer with the same issue not 3 months ago. He threatened a lawsuit and they traded his for a new one. Why won't Ford fix this problem?

30.Mike[ October 24, 2013 @ 12:18PM ]

I have a 2012 with the same issue,,, took it to the dealer and no code was present so he sent me on my way. I told him I will find the TSB that has the issue without a cel (Code) which is 13-8-1. This isn't the only problem Ford is having and not being able to fix. The other is with vibration, shudder when just pulling out.. same thing several TSB without a true fix. I own 3 vehicles and they are all Fords.. Couldn't be happier with the Mustang but the Ranger and the F150 haven't lived up to the Ford name. Yes I believe there will be a accident that may cause harm in this issue isn't fixed and for those that don't have it,,, well I suggest you don't find yourself between a F150 EcoBoost having the issue and a big rig behind you. Just so you know we aren't trying to kill you,, we are just trying to get the truck out of the way while it is in limp mode.. For us that do have the issue I strongly suggest you try to avoid the issue and don't pass unless there is nobody in the passing lane at all... I still like the truck and the performance when it is working but I must say many manufactures are having issues that need to be fixed, it isn't just ford but I can't believe how many are having problems that they can't seem to find a fix for the problem! I don't ever remember this as an issue but then again I am old school and we didn't have 2 or more computers running the car,,, we were mechanics and we could always fix the problem... Today,,, that is not the case and they mostly throw parts at it in a hope you don't come back!

31.Rick Hanson[ November 04, 2013 @ 04:00PM ]

I have a 2011 F 150 2wd with 190,000. miles and have been dealing with this same issue for the last 150,000 miles. First my dealer replaced

all the coils at my expense and then replaced the heat exchanger. This was done in the spring and was ok until Fall. I now am experiancing

severe excellaration issues and took it to 3 differant dealers in a 100 mile

radius. They all tell me that they can not fix it and to call Ford. Wow what

a let down !! Ford what is wrong with you, do people have to dye before

you admit your mistakes. Unhappy in Iowa

32.todd[ November 11, 2013 @ 05:08PM ]

i also have a 2013 f150 eco with the same problem. My truck has 16k miles in it. It has been in the shop several time for loss of power issues. I also have noticed milky oil in my oil cap. The dealer told me this is normal. I do believe you shouldnt have water in you crank case. This is the last ford i will ever buy.

33.Jim[ November 21, 2013 @ 06:40PM ]

My3.5ecoboost lost cyl3and5 at 65mph engine blown at 19500 miles,Lincoln was great about it,dropped a long block in about 10 days.cost 9350.00 MKS still under factory warranty .car runs good ,but it is having the shakes still.there is something wrong with this 3.5 .car runs super and strong as hell .power and gas mileage unreal .there is few cars that can keep up with it.it has been 75 days since new engine.still running good .we will see in the future how it holds up.

34.Robert Pickert[ November 27, 2013 @ 12:17PM ]

I just purchased a brand new F150 2013 and now with only 3,400 miles I have experienced this same Issue and it was raining. Is there anything I can do other than trying to see this piece of crap!!!!

35.Edwin Torres [ December 02, 2013 @ 11:12PM ]

I have a 2011 with 16000 miles on it and it has taken 22 trips to the dealer in Houma la with no luck loss of power rough idle and the transmission has been out of the truck twice don't waist you time complaining to ford they are no help either worst mistake ever.

36.Chris Walls[ December 10, 2013 @ 08:11AM ]

I have a 2012 FX4 with the ecoboost and had the same issue yesterday. I drove from Charleston, SC to Atlanta, GA in heavy fog and rain for 5 hours and was trying to pass someone in the fast lane when my truck starting shuttering hard and there was a complete loss of power. I went from 80mph to 40 something in no time flat. My check engine light is now on and I not sure if I should drive the truck back to Charleston to my local dealer or take it to one here in Atlanta.

37.Ryan [ December 11, 2013 @ 10:35AM ]

2011 f150 supercrew 3.5l ecoboost. Happened to be mast week and again today 12/11/13. I was on the tollway and I got video of this happening. I'm very nervous. This is my first ford truck.

38.Ryan [ December 11, 2013 @ 10:35AM ]

2011 f150 supercrew 3.5l ecoboost. Happened to be mast week and again today 12/11/13. I was on the tollway and I got video of this happening. I'm very nervous. This is my first ford truck.

39.Abe[ December 16, 2013 @ 07:32PM ]

2012 F150 as all the others on this site. Now has 18000 K and still doing about the same. Had TSB done which I had to tell the dealer about which I got from this site also .Love the dam thing ,sure wish we could find a proper fix, This is only the second PU i'e owned,the first being a 95 RAM/W diesel. Pull a RV with mine and sure don't want to have to get another at my age.{81}

40.Lorenzo[ December 20, 2013 @ 05:29PM ]

I have a 2013 F150 Ecoboost. My truck seems like it's struggling since it became cold out. Reducing gas mileage from 18-19 mpg to 15 mpg. I decided to pop out the air filter to see if it was clogged and I've notice road salt residue inside the air filter box. I'm thinking if there is road salt residue in there, then maybe water can be getting in there too. Maybe they can start with the air box design.

41.Rod[ December 22, 2013 @ 03:29PM ]

I have 2005 lariat with 5.4 V8 and I have had the same problem for years. Changed the stupid 2 part plugs at dealer for $700+ now I have collapsed catalitic converters Iam Thinking that it all stems from fuel injectors. What's the matter with Ford?

42.Randy[ December 28, 2013 @ 12:53AM ]

With a stack of engine repairs tickets two inches deep in the first year I sold it. The truck hydro locked with only 9,000 miles on it and Bent a Rod. It is the worst vehicle made since WWII; much worse than the 6.0 Ford Diesel. Just like the diesel Ford does not stand behind the EcoBoost.

43.Matt[ December 31, 2013 @ 09:22AM ]

Having same issue with 2013 F150 ecoboost. Ford has no clue why and keeps telling me "you should not have an issue with a 2013." Every time I take it to the dealership, they tell me there are no codes. At the dealership for the 3rd time. I have contacted FL Attorney General Office and started my lemon law claim. Do NOT buy an ecoboost.

44.Dick[ January 09, 2014 @ 10:54AM ]

Having the same issue with 2013 F150 ecoboost. Driving from Columbus OH to Miami for the Orange Bowl and drove through a day of rain. When I get to Florida... hot, humid, 86 degrees, I had to change lanes because of stoppage ahead. I kicked in the turbo and the engine started shaking and the check engine light came on and blinked. I had NO POWER and coasted back to the berm in traffic. Turned the truck off and started it back up... had no problems since. Took it into the dealer immediately when returning back to OHIO. Dealer could not find any problem. This has me concerned that others are having the same problem. (The truck does get great gas mileage... 22 - 23 mpg.)

45.Geno[ January 10, 2014 @ 10:35AM ]

My friend got the 3013 F150 FX4 w ecoboost. His issue is that on the highway, driving the peed limit of 65, he is seeing only 12-13mpg. He then tried a trip at 55mpg and got 18mpg. I think this a a fuel efficienct issue too. I'm keeping my '08F150XLT currently with 150,000miles until 350,000miles. Give me the Classic Coke. Any issues out there on mileafe?

46.James[ January 20, 2014 @ 09:22AM ]

I own a 2012 f-150 with the 3.5 ecoboost motor, and I have experienced the same problems. When accelerating on the highway to pass slower traffic my truck shook and lost power and at one point another time it shut off entirely. I thought my engine had blown completely, I smelt burnt oil. 45 seconds later the engine restarted. This was a dangerous situation on the highway with traffic with my truck shutting down... as you can imagine.I turn the anti-slip off and have not actually had it happen since then, this may have something to do with a fix if others try and confirm?

I contacted ford by phone today and was handed off to a representative who denied everything and seemed to know nothing. He claimed he had never heard of the problem before.Would love any info about this problem and peoples experience with ford.

47.John[ January 23, 2014 @ 11:45AM ]

2011 F-150 ecoboost. I have had it reprogrammed, plugs, coils, plugs again, all the coils, deflector shield, new charge air cooler, new catalytic converters and nothing has solved the problem. Mine worse when towing 4400lb trailer. Took trailer hooked to truck, got shop foreman to ride with me to experience what the truck was doing. Just picked it up again, made a pull with my trailer. Still doing the same thing. Now Ford Motor tells me that unless I bring my truck in again with the trailer hooked to it they will not work on my truck anymore. Truck is still under warranty. Only choice left is see a lawyer. Ford Motor Co is horrible. First Ford truck I have ever bought and also the last.

48.Peter[ January 23, 2014 @ 05:26PM ]

I own a 2012 f-150 ecoboost. So far haven't had the issue described but fuel economy isn't real good. A guess I would have is as some have suspected, it's moisture. When the air is boosted at the right temperature and humidity, air exchangers make a ton of water. This being an air cooler, boosted air makes water. How to solve? That the million dollar question.

49.Chris Garn[ January 30, 2014 @ 12:12PM ]

This is a serious problem that Ford better address quickly before someone is killed. I also own the F150 with the Ecoboost and experienced the same problems with sudden loss of power. It is unfortunate that with all of these complaints Ford can't find a solution. I have purchased many Ford and Lincoln products over the years all excellent products. I can say that this 2013 F150 scares me, I just pray nobody dies because of this very poor design.

50.Brett[ February 05, 2014 @ 11:08AM ]

I have a 2013 f150 with the ecoboost. well it used to be. now its breathing a lot better thanks to K&N and out runs almost every truck in its class. I'm @ 31,000 mi. and the majority of my parts besides the K&N were put on 5,000 mi ago. I HOWEVER HAVE NEVER HAD A PROBLEM WITH ANYTHING ON MY TRUCK. Call it luck? Maybe.. however unless you can't afford the ecoboost motor which, as we all know, puts out +/- 60 ft lbs of torque and +/- 65 hspwr MORE than the 5.0, i just don't know why you would get it. After reading some of you experiences I'm shocked.When i bought my 2013 FX4 Off-Road, I test drove a 5.0 first because I had the same though as above. "Who would get a v6 in a full size truck?" Well the 5.0 didn't blow the backend out of the gravel lot after taking off traction control.. I wouldn't trade my baby for any other model. its gun metal grey, FULLY loaded with the 4:10 gears, FX4 appearance package, tow package, black wheels, xenon headlights proj style, ext. cab... the works.. My good friend just bought a raptor svt, he beat me in the qtr mile, but by less than a trucks length. (thats the 4:10s, and mods.)One last thought.. it seems most of your problems are turbo related..? Make a friend at your dealer, the Ford Taurus u see your local state trooper driving has the same motor with different turbos, better ones.. Walsh which is what I had put on mine. The stock name isn't a good brand i forgot off the top of my head what it is.. Good luck guys. Sorry to be the spoiler, but you get what you pay for!

51.Brett[ February 05, 2014 @ 11:27AM ]

What really makes me laugh is #3... Mark, do u know how long the ecoboost has been out? when were the changes made to the motor? I've driven both. (To the ecboost owners having problems, Im sorry) but my truck even before my parts will pull a 5.0 backwards. So who wants a v-6 in a full size, at first not I, after driving them in the inventory lot. ill take my t.t. v-6 any day. Titans, no way.. Tundras, they come almost and i stress almost, as close as the hemi does.. chevy? please.. don't get me started. HA! I've taken my baby to test.. pulling 8,650 lbs was a joke. (air bag suspension helps), (put that on a chevy and it would do a wheelie poss flip over), 1/4 mi her against the raptor and my best friends hemi sport. beat the hemi by a nose, if it was a 1/8 mi race it would have been by 5 truck lengths +/-, the raptor was neck and neck but as rightfully so took me by a truck maybe?Bottom line if it isn't the stares I get as i drive by with the turbos' blow off valves releasing spinning heads, its the compliments i get from mostly chevy silverado/1500 owners. "Wow man, nice truck"

52.barry[ February 06, 2014 @ 08:13AM ]

I've had the same power loss problem on my way to Palm Beach after driving for three and a half hours the truck lost acceleration engine light came on and started to shake uncontrollably it was a dangerous situation

53.john[ February 08, 2014 @ 06:53PM ]

I have a 2012 f150 ecobost 2200 miles driving in rain it has lost power and staled had to pull over and restart 3 times. Last night it staled restarted after 10min.check eng lightis on now.

54.Ed[ February 14, 2014 @ 01:28PM ]

Brett: How much for all your upgrades? What were they? BOV and WG upgrade? Larger intercooler or do the eco boost not have one because of GDI?

55.Ed[ February 14, 2014 @ 01:30PM ]

Brett: Just read about intercooler as issue. So did you get a bigger intercooler too?

56.Craig[ February 27, 2014 @ 10:01AM ]

2011 f150 v-6 ecoboost owner here, same issues as all above. Doesn't matter what type of day it is, when on highway or any street and try to give it some gas, nothing and shakes badly.

57.steve washer[ February 27, 2014 @ 12:51PM ]

2013 f-150 crew 4x4 3.5 ecoboost owned three fords previos got good trucks , this new tech is a nightmare innercooler failed , now it is bucking on acceleration , tranny, engine ? salesman stated this will be the last truck you'll ever need will last and be dependable . bullshit

58.JIMMY[ February 27, 2014 @ 06:40PM ]

I have f 150 eco boost it shutters and shakes every time it is damp or raining out Ford has worked on it over and over and still hasn't fixed it its a ROAD HAZARD and they don't care they told me that they will just keep working on it. They advertise 22 MPG IT GETS 13 TO 14 MPG. This is by far the worst truck I have ever owned way to go FORD This will be my last one u will ever sell to me.

59.Rick[ March 01, 2014 @ 04:33PM ]

i have a 2011 f 150 eco boost it shutters and shakes everytime it takes off from a stop sign with a trailer behind. When i tried to pass on a two lane road it will not accelerate every time like it should. no rain cool out or hot out no differance. had it to dealer 3 times now no differance. Only 10,000 miles on it now. Dont know what to do with it. Love it but hate the shakes and shutters.

60.Brad[ March 04, 2014 @ 05:47AM ]

This same issue started for me around 50k km'.. Give it gas, loses power, the wrench appears on the display.. Odometer shows "--------", spedometer stops responding and won't downshift. I have a 2012 f-150 xlt with the small V6.. This keeps happening and i had attriibuted this initially to some extremely cold weather recently which coincided with the original incident. After reading about all of these issues I will be paying a visit to the dealer on this.

61.lonnie[ March 09, 2014 @ 08:48PM ]

Just bought a 2013 ecoboost has 400 miles on it just started shaking like crazy lost all power and almost died had to pull off to the side of the road tell the engine light stopped blinking

62.Bogie [ March 15, 2014 @ 05:05PM ]

Drove 8 hours to Santa Fe and 5 miles outside of town truck started shacking and hesitating and check engine light came on. Had to coast into town with hazards on shacking and stalling the rest of the way. This is ridiculous and dangerous with 3 children in the car. Not sure how we are going to get to mountain in morning for lessons and not happy. Ruining vacation

63.David[ March 17, 2014 @ 10:34AM ]

WE WERE DRIVING IN NORMAL CONDITIONS, GOING ABOUT 40 MPH, ALL OF A SUDDEN WE LOST POWER/ACCELERATION AND TRUCK JERKED, AND BRAKES SEEMED TO APPLIED BY THEIR SELVES VERY HARD. THIS SEEMED TO HAPPEN SPORADICALLY UNTIL ABOUT A WEEK AGO. ITS HAPPENING NOW AT LEAST 3 TIMES A WEEK. THE TRUCK IS DRIVEN EVERYDAY ON THE INTERSTATE AND MY HUSBAND IS VERY CONCERNED THAT HE IS GOING TO CAUSE AN ACCIDENT. IT HAPPENED YESTERDAY AND HE SAID IT WAS SO BAD, WHEN THE LOSS OF POWER HAPPENED, THE BRAKES LOCKED SO BAD THE TIRES JUST SCREECHED. HE TOOK TRUCK TO THE DEALERSHIP ON 3/4/14 AND THEY COULD NOT FIND ANYTHING WRONG WITH THE TRUCK. ON THE WAY HOME FROM THE DEALERSHIP (SAME DAY) IT HAPPENED AGAIN. AFTER THE DEALERSHIP TOLD HIM THAT, I BEGAN SEARCHING ON THE INTERNET AND FOUND THE LOSS OF POWER/BRAKE PROBLEM. (MOISTURE IN COOLER CAUSING LOSS OF POWER PROBLEM IN F-150 ECHBOOST ENGINES) HE CALLED THE DEALERSHIP BACK AND HE TOLD THEM ABOUT THE INFO ON THE INTERNET THAT WE HAD FOUND, AND THAT IF HAD HAPPENED AGAIN THAT SAME DAY, THEY TOLD HIM THEY WERE AWARE OF THE ECHBOOST PROBLEM, BUT CAN'T DO ANYTHING ABOUT IT UNTIL A RECALL HAPPENS, SO THEY DID NOTHING TO THE TRUCK .THIS IS DEFINALLY A PROBLEM AND IT IS GOING TO CAUSE A COLLISION AND POSSIBLE DEATH OR INJUIRY WHEN THIS HAPPENS. THERE DEFINALLY NEEDS TO BE A RECALL ON THE F-150 ECOBOOST TRUCKS. PLEASE HELP EVERYONE THAT OWNS THIS VEHICLE AND ISSUE A RECALL.

64.Jeff[ March 18, 2014 @ 05:36AM ]

I have a 2011 F-150 XLT with the EcoBoost engine. Bought for pulling a 8000 lb camper. Absolutely loved everything about it until recently. I drive a lot of miles (now at 88,000). About 3 weeks ago on a very cold (-20F) morning in western PA, I pulled out to pass a truck on a two land highway and experienced the dreaded shutter. Definitely had the gas smashed to the floor to get around this guy and it completely died. Flashing CEL, terrible shaking and loss of power. Luckily I had enough time to get pulled back in behind the truck. Turned off the engine, restarted and it seemed to run fine. I've tried to replicate the issue, but can't get it to totally go into shutter mode. It will miss and sputter, and the CEL will flash then come on solid. I agree that this issue is going to get someone killed. Going to the dealer tomorrow. Hope Ford covers it, or my extended warranty.

65.ted ferguson[ March 30, 2014 @ 09:52AM ]

Had the same thing happen to me. Read about the problems the eco was having. So when it happen to me I knew what it most be. What a feeling. It made me s--t being on the expressway and a hour away from home cold, snowing and windy out. I been putting a piece of cardbroad in front of my innercooler. I didn't have it in front at the time. The power loss lasted for about 2 miles. I pulled over and put the card broad in front of it. Don' know if it helps but it can't hurt. That scared me.

66.Ray[ April 06, 2014 @ 12:07PM ]

I have the 2013 F150 Ecoboost and pull a 9,700 lb trailer with it and have not had any trouble. Love the power it puts out and will out run and tow friends V8 trucks.

67.Walt[ April 08, 2014 @ 06:02AM ]

High humidity is when starts, dealer says they have never heard of the problem, filed complaint with NTSB.

68.dewey duncan[ April 11, 2014 @ 01:53PM ]

I have had problem with my 2013 f150 ecobost and when I carried it to Boyd ford dealer in oxford the service tech claim he had not heard of problem. I told him I had seem where there had been 95 incidentson ntsb with same problem ,he look up on computer and said oh we have a techinical bullention and we will monitor this. I continue to have problem and they hadn't done anything to fix or called me back to dealership. This is the last dam ford i will purchase if this is how they are going to fix problem. I guess they will wait untill people get killed before they will consider fix..

69.chris hudson[ April 15, 2014 @ 11:24AM ]

picked up a used 2012 f150 ecoboost 3 months ago, great truck...however would like to see Ford get all f150 owners on the same page. C'mon Ford, settle this problem once and for all ....

70.Dave[ April 21, 2014 @ 04:53PM ]

We also own a 2012 F-150 Twin turbo 3.5L. engine.TRUCK. We have 33,000 miles on it and it has had problems since it had 13,000 miles. We have had it at the dealer more than we have had it in our garage. We will be driving down the road and the wrench will come on. Then we start to loose power and have to limp home or pull off to the side of the road and shut it down and start it up again. We brought it to the dealer and they said unless the wrench is on they cannot get a code to fix it. We FINALLY lucked out and the wrench came on and we drove it right to the dealer.They have done so much to it that I cannot even tell it all. They have replaced the throttle body and also put in new spark plugs. We thought this would solve the problem but NO. We only drove it a short distance and once again the wrench came on and we lost power.l We took it straight to the shop(Ford Dealer) and they said the code once again said it was the throttle body. As I write it has been in the shop for 5 days waiting for another throttle body to come in so that they can "fix it". These trucks are way too expensive for this to be happening. We have never owned a Ford truck and if Ford does not get this figured out we will NEVER own one again. It is so disgusting I cannot even begin to explain. We have a trailer we want to pull with it and that does not even seem like it is an option at this point. What is a consumer supposed to do?????? FORD WE NEED YOU TO STEP UP AND HELP US OUT!!!!!!!

71.kevin[ April 26, 2014 @ 01:08PM ]

I own 2012 fx4 f-150 3.5 ecoboost 47000 km. had it a month, worked fine until 2 days ago ,driving on hyway in the rain, go to pass a car and nothing, but shaking and missing,let off gas punched it down and it picked up , but was bucking. Come on ford fix the problem!

72.David[ May 16, 2014 @ 01:44PM ]

I got this same thing just two days ago in the rain my 2012 F150 Eco Boost 3.5 shut down as I was passing on a major hwy in Ga. I thought we were about to het run over. I will file a complaint now.

73.Randy Johnson[ May 19, 2014 @ 11:57AM ]

Own a 2011 Ford F-150 Ecoboost and I put a lot of miles on this truck, 78,000 at this time, the acceleration problem and shaking is becoming more and more of a problem. It happens 2-3 times a week. They say that you should be able to get the problem fixed if they ever come up with a solution if you are still under warranty, how about not under warranty? Sounds like this should be a safety recall, and most recalls are paid for by the manufacturer, for us that are over the warranty, it will be very costly. They put a lot of hype into this vehicle and now we see all of the problems. This is my first ford and it will be the last, should have stuck with my GMC

74.chad stephen[ May 25, 2014 @ 01:31PM ]

i have 2011 f150 ecoboost engine like came on had friend plug into it said #6 cylider was missin so i changed all six plugs and truck runnin way worse so i took it to dealer come find out the computer was cousing it to miss fire so they replaced computer its been running fine

75.The JT[ June 02, 2014 @ 09:35AM ]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ppqms-k6h90

Video of my 2011 EcoBoost F150 as it misfires while driving down the highway on cruise control then stops only to reappear worse once I give it gas and turn off the cruise control then suddenly stop. Took to a dealer said Misfire Cylinder #1 replaced coil and spark plug only yo reappear 15 minutes after I left the dealership.

76.Kevin Dolan[ June 05, 2014 @ 09:31AM ]

Traveling 45 miles an hr, lost all power engine light came on tried to limp it to a dealer ended up having it towed. Dealer had to replace injector rail after work was done drove the 120 miles back home, next day engine light back on dealer say bad catalytic converter. I no longer have that nice fuzzy feeling with my first and possibly last FORD F150 ecoboost.

77.jennifer[ July 01, 2014 @ 03:33PM ]

Got my Eco boost in 2012Turbos burst first winter had to have the replacedDash light comes on after I turn it off and goes off on its ownPut gas in my truck will not posy proper miles till emptyGet 16 mpg tells me I have 235 mte get up to 25 mpg and the miles drop till empty down to 224Same tank of gasI get better miles per gallon it gives me less miles till emptyPassenger window won't always roll up from drivers side yet will from passenger side and if it won't roll up from passenger side chances of it rolling up from drivers side not all that greatLoud POP under hood now I hear a muffle noise like Exhaust Manifold is cracked. Dealer ship said they looked at it really I was standing right next to my truck, and you can not see a crack in the manifold all the time

I get good gas millage but this truck is under warranty I want it fixed I paid the extra now give me the respect and stop doubting what I say cause I am a 50 year old female with a Brain between my ears that just so happens to know something about the truck I drive ... No I am not upset ..just irritated I am second guessed because of my Sex and age

78.Toby[ July 21, 2014 @ 07:01PM ]

Just purchased a 2010 Taurus SHO that is powered with the 3.5 ecoboost. It has lost power twice in 2 days. Both times were accelerating from a stop. The first time was yesterday in the rain. My wife was driving and she was going straight through the intersection. When the light turned green she pushed the accelerator the car moved into the intersection and came to a stop even though her foot was still on the accelerator. She let off the gas and pressed it again and we moved forward. Today driving home from work, I was stopped on a hill waiting on traffic to turn left into my neighborhood. When I pressed the gas the car went forward enough to put me in front of the oncoming traffic and I lost power. I was panicked to say the least. Power returned and I narrowly avoided being hit. I didn't get a check engine light or anything. I took the car back to the Ford dealer and they are investigating the issue. I have found reference to Motorcraft TSB 12-2-10. Have any of you had these repairs made? If so, did they fix the issues?

79.steve p petcovic[ August 06, 2014 @ 06:38PM ]

I have 2011 f150 XL 5.0 check engine light on for the 5th time been in the shop 4 times got back today and light back on again started at 22,000 miles what is going on here. come on ford get it right.

80.Robert[ August 16, 2014 @ 07:12PM ]

The ecoboost appears to be nothing more than unproven marketing hype and bs. Why would anyone want this engine with all the problems it has and then have the gas mileage (especially when towing) be horrible anyway? With a 460 V8 you would get good torque and towing capability that few engines could match, but you knew straight ahead that gas mileage did not exist. At least there, proven reliability did occur. Perhaps attempting to get both acceptable gas mileage and towing capability is trying to have your cake and eat it too.

81.Nathan Summers[ September 30, 2014 @ 08:59PM ]

After reading so many post, I realize that I am not in this alone. The only difference is at I have a 2011 f-250 with a gas 6.2 engine. My engine has a little under 40,000 miles. Two weeks ago I started noticing a flutter in the engine when I would be just driving in the city. I filled up on fuel about a week and a half ago, drove less than 20 miles and suddenly started losing power, sputtering, and then the check engine light came on. I stopped at a chain auto parts store to have them read the code, and it said that the ignition coil A was failing. I took it to the dealer. They had it 2 days and the shop manager called and said he had good news. He stated that all it needed was a major tune-up. His list included plugs, wires, oil change, flush anti-freeze, fuel filter, and a fuel injector service including an injector cleaner and injector fog. They wanted $1500.00 for their "services". I told them I would do all of this. After being treated like an idiot. I paid them $120 for the diagnosis and left. After changing all of the parts they said, the truck ran better for a couple of days, but still had hiccups. Two days later, it all started again and now it has no power, the check engine light is on. After calling the dealership, they want to read it again, and do the same thing. I am very disappointed and aggrivated with this engine, truck, and Ford altogether. Tomorrow, I am taking it to a very comprehensive and rooted shop for hopefully a better diagnosis. Just as an ending, this is my work truck. I need it to make a living. I can't afford to go out and replace this truck. Again, I am both angered and disappointed.

82.Brian Willet[ October 07, 2014 @ 08:59AM ]

Have a 2011 F150 with EcoBoost that is suffering the same issues that everyone is having with engine sputtering under hard excelleration. Humidity and air temp don't seem to be a factor, it happens regardless of weather conditions. Took to my Ford dealership hoping to have the latest TSB applied to my vehicle but their remedy is $450.00 for new spark plugs and to clean the fuel system. This isn't going to fix the problem and is only going to cost me money. Frustrated!

83.Marty Bedsaul [ October 09, 2014 @ 08:35PM ]

Just bought my wife a 2013 f150 limited last week, it has 16k miles, this is supposed to be her dream truck!! It's very nice and was expensive!! Now I am scared it's going to be a nightmare!!!!!!!! She has driven a 2001 f150 for the last 12 years and 265k miles. I bought this very expensive fancy truck cause I know she will keep it another 12 years.I'm afraid I have made the biggest mistake ever and have put my wife and daughter in a death trap. I have already told her that it seems like it should have more power, which leads me to believe it's only a matter of a few miles before the nightmare begins, any advice would be appreciated.I WILL put up a FIGHT against Ford when it comes to my wife and daughters saftey!!!!!

84.Ruben Garcia[ October 11, 2014 @ 01:04PM ]

Just purchased a 2012 f150 fx2 sport 2 weeks ago biggest mistake of my life..... Certified pre - owned with 40000 miles on it still a very expensive truck used . my dream truck 😢It too is having this same stalling issue.. has shut down on me several times once on the freeway which was very scary in Houston traffic.... Took it back for service they told me nothing's wrong with my Truck and tried charging me a 75 dollar diagnostic fee f that I told them I have not even made my first payment very very frustrated at this point

85.Ryan Devlin[ November 11, 2014 @ 02:34PM ]

My 2012 F-150 ecoboost engine has the same issues of violently shaking and not accelerating when at highway speeds trying to pass another vehicle. I have brought this in twice and its not fixed. The first time they said they couldn't find anything wrong and sent be home. They did not mention the TSB. I continue to have engine failures and cut out at high speed when I hit the accelerator. I found the TSB and they installed a deflector but did not change the CCONV like they should have. This did not fix my issue. This time I video taped it happening 3 times in a row. Back to the dealer next Monday. I don't want this truck anymore. I don't want to die on the highway when I can't accelerate. so disappointed but if Ford admits they have a problem this severe, it will cost them millions. At this point I just want my money back.

86.J. Ortiz[ November 18, 2014 @ 01:40PM ]

Same thing happened to me. I have a 2011 Eco Boost with 66,700 miles. It will cost me close to $1000 to repair. Which includes Pcm update, replace deflector, tune up, clean fuel injectors and this is not including the catalytic converter . The lady at ford told me to call (1800 393 3673). So I called, and there's nothing they can do. I don't think everyone is calling to report this issue. Everyone needs to call and report this, so they can do a recall. I'm so disappointed with ford.

87.Bobby c[ November 19, 2014 @ 05:42AM ]

I have a 2012 F150 with eco boost v6. This has happened to me several times on my truck with 74000 miles on it. First time at about 20,000. I live in west Texas and do not have a rain issue, first few times we had not seen rain in near a year. Happened this week while on hiway in cold temp. If I let off and slow, it will go ahead and accelerate slowly to about 95 mph while passing. When new, it would just jump up to governed limit if gas pedal was mashed. Ford guys don't know if they do not see it happen, so they say. I know moisture is not the issue cause we do not have any.

88.joel c[ November 22, 2014 @ 04:47PM ]

Well I bragged up and down about this truckand today I got bit! Same shuttering everyone else is having. Dont get me wrong when this thing runs it runs awesome! Pretty bummed right now.

89.Jim C.[ April 01, 2015 @ 07:32AM ]

450 miles on my 2015 F 150 with the 3.5Ecoboost. The hose at the intake manifold blows off and I loose all turbo boost.Ford is going to replace the hose and clamps. Is anyone else experiencing this problem?

90.Robert Jessen [ May 07, 2015 @ 05:44PM ]

Just got my 2015 F-150! No problems so far. Let's hope I don't experience any of these horror stories 👆🏻👆🏻 🙏🏻 and I have 1600 miles on it.

91.Michael Conley[ May 13, 2015 @ 09:35PM ]

I have a 2012 F150 Ecoboost. Loved the truck or I did until about 8000 miles on odometer when it started the shudder problem and drop in average mileage from low 19 to high 12s. Ouch. Cant tell you the countless times it has either stalled or shaken violently to the point of nearly being in several accidents just trying to pass someone on a 2 lane road or trying to merge into traffic from the on ramp. I guess it will take a horrible accident before ford does anything about it. It just makes me sick that I spend a lot of extra money for an engine that will get good mileage and have plenty of towing power and end up with horrible mileage weak to limp mode power and I see all the New Ecoboost commercials showing how awesome they are. Towing a trailer whether its my little utility trailer or my 18 foot cargo trailer is 5 to 7 mpg and it was 14 before all the problems began.

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