I get it, Venom Snake is the "Big Boss" that we remember from the original Metal Gear. But when I said he isn't "Big Boss" what I meant was that he isn't the Big Boss from the games that this game follows series timeline wise (Snake Eater, Peace Walker, etc).

Falco wrote:MGSV continues to really impress me. I had about an hour of fluid gameplay where missions and storyline events just blended together, without the need for menus or other segmenting to take you out of the moment.

As I was already out on a side quest, the game noticed I was passing through the area where I could completely different side quest, and started that too. I wouldn't have been penalized for skipping the new side quest, but I appreciate the game gave me the opportunity.

After I finished up the new side quest and got back on my way, I got dropped into a boss fight. This could have been annoying, but it made me feel more like anything could happen at any moment while out in the field. I then had the ultimate "There's no way this will work / I can't believe that worked" moment: I had no way to beat Quiet with only a tranq pistol and assault rifle. I wondered if I could supply drop in a sniper rifle... instead, I ordered a supply drop directly on Quiet's head. The first one knocked off half her health, the second ended the mission (s rank)

And now I'm like... wow I wish more games allowed that sort of lateral thinking. Goddamn, that's amazing.

Yeah, reading through this thread, I'm just gonna go with "don't pay that much attention to MGS5's story". Or maybe just "don't pay much attention to MGS5's story after the first ending", but it's all kind of a shaggy dog tale before that.

And much more of one afterwards.

Might as well try to untangle this mess though.

The player character was made to look like Big Boss before he ever "wakes up". The whole thing with them talking about how they are going to change your face is an other level of trickery. Big Boss wants everyone to think you are him. This way the lie that you are him and changed your face to look different, if they ever figure out that happened, they'll assume that's where the rabbit hole ends. It's convoluted, but thats Metal Gear for you.

The "Truth" mission makes this a little clearer... maybe. In the prologue proper you're shown the player-generated face at first, with the doctor stating that it's the face he gave you, and then you see the Big Boss face and he calls it a "phantom". What you're meant to believe is that the Big Boss face you see throughout the game is only Venom's self-image; to everyone else, you look like the "altered" player character.

In Truth, though, these faces are switched, revealing things for what they really are: The player face is Venom's original face, and the Big Boss face is what he was altered to resemble. That's what Miller and Ocelot and everyone else sees and recognizes. Venom remembers and sees his old face (rather than Big Boss's) in reflections, but he writes that off as normal, because he was told that that's just what he looks like now. The mission ends with him looking in the mirror and realizing for the first time that Big Boss's face really is his current, altered face.

Everything in the wiki is still making assumptions, because you do get the tape for operation intrude N313, which heavily hints at you becoming Big Boss for MG1, but in MG2 Big Boss has cybernetic parts, which could easily make you Big Boss for MG2 in zanzibarland.

Interestingly enough, the conversations that follow suggest that Naked Snake is off quietly building the true Outer Heaven (somewhere in or close to South Africa, remember) while Venom's building Diamond Dogs in the Seychelles. So even though Venom shows up in Outer Heaven to get missiled in the face by Solid, it's not his country. The question of which one of them is acting as Solid Snake's CO is kind of left hanging, and that bugs me a lot because it's the single biggest question I wanted MGS5 to address: how does a known nuclear terrorist manage manage to go back to heading an elite paramilitary unit for the CIA???

My best guess is that it's Naked doing that too, because he's got a neat cover: since he is the genetically provable Big Boss and now there's some other asshole out there using his likeness and his name and doing all of the exact same shit he did in the Caribbean - building a private army on a converted oil rig, hoarding nukes, sending a god damned Metal Gear out on petty dispatch missions - he can be like nah man that wasn't me in 1974 it was this Venom asshole, gimme some sneakmans and I'll stop him. So that's how Big Boss can be on the radio at FOXHOUND HQ and also be holed in in a little room 200 miles north of Galzburg - he just phoned up Venom Snake and was like YEAH HEY SO I'M GONNA BE FUCKING AROUND WITH THIS CLONE OF MINE FROM HERE SO I NEED YOU TO GO POSE AS ME IN OUTER HEAVEN I PROMISE YOU WON'T GET MISSILED IN THE FACE TO DEATH OR ANYTHING and Venom Snake is just like YEAH SURE THAT SOUNDS COOL because Venom Snake is a god damned tool.

Also, I feel like Kojima is laboring under the M. Night problem: his games have always had big twists so now he feels compelled to add them. Even if they're pointless or stupid or both. Though I guess if 5 was just "everything is at face value" that would have been a twist in itself.

zaratustra wrote:This is the most bizarrely pointless twist ever. OH YOU'RE NOT BIG BOSS AND WHILE YOU WERE BUSY BIG BOSS WAS DOING EXACTLY ALL THE SAME santorum YOU WERE DOING -- BUT IN SECRET

Meh, I like it for the same reason I like pretty much any of Kojima's bullshit, it makes for a clever analogy. Get it, you are playing the part of Big Boss in this game even though you aren't really him, JUST LIKE VENOM SNAKE.

Yes, it's not that eloquent narratively, but I've never cared about the integrity of non-player created narratives in video games anyway. It just fits so well; it explains away any time any player performs any action in the game that doesn't make Big Boss look like the perfect soldier he supposedly is. I'm not saying it's genius, but it's cute. Don't hate.

honestly I thought it was a really cute way for Kojima to say "hey Big Boss was you all along, thanks for sticking with me through all these silly-ass games, happy trails old friend" and I cracked a big grin when I saw the cassette tape labeled OPERATION INTRUDE N313 because I am a total mark

It occurred to me today (mission 46 spoilers) Venom Snake smokes Phantom Cigars. That is, cigars for the phantom. And they're vapes, not actual cigars, because he isn't a smoker and the reaction of smoking a real cigar would damage the illusion.

のほも is such a good word?? the concept is kind of hard to fully get across in translation, but basically it means a feeling of pure, deep, platonic affection, and i think thats beautiful