Joined: October 20th, 2004, 4:16 pmPosts: 10136Location: Where ever I'm at now

Re: Lions Team Needs

Pablo, I agree about Spievey, but he isn't the only one taking bad angles. Delmas isn't very good at the angle of attack, and neither is Levy. And in truth, between our two safeties, I think Spievey is the better tackler, though that isn't saying much. It seems the only time Delmas uses his arms to try and tackle is when the player is moving beyond him and he has to reach out to grab the guy. Otherwise he simply tries to lower his shoulder and knock the guy down with a big hit rather than just wrap the guy and bring him down the right way. Spievey tries to do the big hit thing to, but not as often as Delmas.

Delmas has better instincts, by far. I think Delmas has the edge in coverage ability, but not by a large margin. Both players need to improve their games dramatically, or need to be replaced. Safety play killed this defense down the stretch, not defensive line play or cornerback play. I guarantee you if the Lions maintain Spievey and Delmas as their starters, teams will run their receivers right down the middle to attack the safeties in a one on one coverage situation, and the Lions will be giving up big plays all over again.

_________________I will not put on blinders when it comes to our QBs performances.

January 17th, 2012, 2:28 pm

The Legend

Off. Coordinator – Joe Lombardi

Joined: February 11th, 2005, 3:01 pmPosts: 4080Location: WSU

Re: Lions Team Needs

Spievey uses better form to tackle but Delmas is still a far more efficient tackler and misses less tackles than Spievey does especially if you consider the times that Spievey gets whiffed, juked or just doesnt make it to the play. Even if you throw those out RBs more easily break Spievey's tackle than Delmas, despite Delmas rarely wrapping up.

January 17th, 2012, 7:13 pm

The Legend

Off. Coordinator – Joe Lombardi

Joined: February 11th, 2005, 3:01 pmPosts: 4080Location: WSU

Re: Lions Team Needs

Quote:

Besides statistics, Suh didn't have the same year that he did his rookie year. I think part of it is what you said, but there was also the fact that teams knew how to best neutralize him. They ran directly at him a lot more this year, and had good success at it. They used his upfield aggressiveness against him to gash the Lions D. He didn't get the push up the middle this year like he did last year. Part of the reason he had 10 sacks last year is because the DE's were able to force the QB to have to step up in the pocket, and he got good pressure up the middle that garnered a lot of sacks. That changed this year. There were a lot of times where QB's could step up into the pocket and get the pass away before Suh or the other DT's were able to get to him.

It seems to me that the defensive line alignment this year was a little different then last year. I'm not trying to have the whole "wide 9" conversation, but I think that this affected the statistical output of our DT's negatively, and helped that of the DE's. I think the ideal wide 9 DT is a less aggressive upfield rusher and more of a run stuffer. Corey Williams and SLH are more ideally suited then Suh and Fairley.

Suh wasnt really that different. Quite a few of his sacks as a rookie were late ie > 3 seconds of time to pass and he got to clean up on sacks that were either coverage sacks or produced by another DL. This year a big difference in blocking schemes was that the double teams went at Suh whereas last year they were more directed at Corey Williams. Williams is better at busting through double teams than Suh, probably bc Suh has never really had to use good technique relying on superior athleticism and strength but to win a double team in the NFL also requires better technique. On the other hand, Suh is better at beating people one on one than Williams is bc of better quickness. Suh still did a good job vs double teams but Williams and the other DTs werent as good beating the one on one s as Suh - this allowed more of the sacks to be cleaned up by Avril, KVB, LoJack. Finally the tackle numbers, nothing is more irrelevant than total tackles especially for a defensive lineman. One reason the tackle numbers may be different is that the Lions rotated more on the line esp w Suh than they did last year - also you have to consider that we were behind in more games last season so more teams would run on us late in games trying to kill clock while this year we had a few more teams passing trying to catch up from behind. You are also right with the wide 9 comments, I think the Lions D at times had the philosophy at least with the DL to go after the QB against all costs not realizing how bad they would get gashed by run games bc of overaggressiveness. It might not be the wide 9 but there was something about the way the Lions were running it that they never really adjusted or wanted to adjust to stopping the run except in short yardage.

January 17th, 2012, 7:28 pm

Wayne Fontes

Color Commentator - John Madden

Joined: January 19th, 2007, 3:21 amPosts: 1919Location: A2

Re: Lions Team Needs

That's a good point about the lack of adjustment of the defensive alignment philosophy. In games where they were getting gashed between the tackles, they rarely made any adjustments to stop the run.

You said Suh was double teamed more often this year and wasn't able to defeat them as well as Corey did last year. Good DT's are able to get stalemates against the double, which Suh did a good job at doing this year. Pro Bowl DT's are able to split/defeat double teams on a more regular basis then just good to average DT's. That is something I didn't see Suh doing very much this year. You posited it may be a technique issue. If so, he's got a lot to work on this offseason so he can improve. I'm in no way saying he's going to be a bust or should be shipped out of town, I'm just saying he needs to be able to get better from year to year.

_________________Forward down the field!

January 18th, 2012, 11:26 am

The Legend

Off. Coordinator – Joe Lombardi

Joined: February 11th, 2005, 3:01 pmPosts: 4080Location: WSU

Re: Lions Team Needs

yeah i agree, I think he can get stalemates but has a hard time busting the double teams. Really Corey Williams besides the false starts was exceptional in 2010 and probably a little better than Suh overall. Suh didnt improve as much as maybe we thought or expected but I really dont think Suh regressed.

rd3: Bobbie Massie, OT, Mississippi - might be a tackle eventually but could play inside right away

rd4: Robert Turbin, RB, Utah State - tough runner who is durable and carried his team

rd5: Joe Adams, KR/PR, Arkansas - great returner, marginal WR

rd7: Drew Butler P, Georgia - might not be there end of rd 7

Lions would do well to trade for extra picks in this draft - especially in rds 3-4 where they could build the interior of the o line, there seem to be a lot of starter type players. Trade up, trade down, trade players with contracts, trade future picks - whatever it takes, this is a good draft to have picks in. A lot of salary cap issues could be helped out by landing starters in the draft.

room for 3 more maybe Ekiejiuba, Silva, and a real FB if he can play some ST or Fluellen on the DL; or any UDFA or extra picks we may end up with.

January 18th, 2012, 11:35 pm

liontrax

1st Round Pick

Joined: March 21st, 2005, 2:11 pmPosts: 1201Location: Wolverine, Mi.

Re: Lions Team Needs

I don't see anyone the Lions take at 23 (assuming they don't trade back) as being an "immediate starter". Unless it's a safety. Even if a higher ranked player falls to us again like last year, unless there is an injury, I would be surprised if he starts. That's not to say I believe our current starters can't be replaced or improved upon, quite the opposite.

January 19th, 2012, 7:33 pm

wjb21ndtown

Re: Lions Team Needs

liontrax wrote:

I don't see anyone the Lions take at 23 (assuming they don't trade back) as being an "immediate starter". Unless it's a safety. Even if a higher ranked player falls to us again like last year, unless there is an injury, I would be surprised if he starts. That's not to say I believe our current starters can't be replaced or improved upon, quite the opposite.

At 23 we should be able to get a LB, safety, OG, or C that can start over their counterpart.

January 19th, 2012, 8:07 pm

kdsberman

Team MVP

Joined: February 20th, 2007, 10:51 pmPosts: 3426Location: Saginaw, MI

Re: Lions Team Needs

wjb21ndtown wrote:

liontrax wrote:

I don't see anyone the Lions take at 23 (assuming they don't trade back) as being an "immediate starter". Unless it's a safety. Even if a higher ranked player falls to us again like last year, unless there is an injury, I would be surprised if he starts. That's not to say I believe our current starters can't be replaced or improved upon, quite the opposite.

At 23 we should be able to get a LB, safety, OG, or C that can start over their counterpart.

This would be a good year for a Patriots style trade. We get somebody's 2nd rounder this year and their first next year for #23.

January 19th, 2012, 10:39 pm

m2karateman

RIP Killer

Joined: October 20th, 2004, 4:16 pmPosts: 10136Location: Where ever I'm at now

Re: Lions Team Needs

inheritedlionsfan wrote:

This would be a good year for a Patriots style trade. We get somebody's 2nd rounder this year and their first next year for #23.

Problem with that is that the Lions wouldn't have a pick in the top 50. New England did that trade last year because they had a high second round pick in their pocket, so getting a first this year and the Saints late second rounder last year was no big deal.

The one team I see that might do the trade up, and has the ammunition to do it, is Cleveland. And they already have two first round picks, with one being the pick just before us. Indy doesn't do many trades on draft day, and I don't see Tampa Bay wanting to move up and give up picks, since they have numerous needs. Jacksonville is a possibility, but they traded up last year and is yet another team that needs all the picks they can muster. These are teams that would have to give up their first and second rounders. Don't see it happening.....at least not this early. After free agency, it could be an entirely different story. We'd also have to see what happens with the comp picks. Teams that get third or fourth round comp picks may be more inclined to trade their regular picks in those rounds.

_________________I will not put on blinders when it comes to our QBs performances.

January 20th, 2012, 10:42 am

Wayne Fontes

Color Commentator - John Madden

Joined: January 19th, 2007, 3:21 amPosts: 1919Location: A2

Re: Lions Team Needs

Cincy has two picks as well. They might try to make a move up to grab Richardson.

_________________Forward down the field!

January 20th, 2012, 12:40 pm

m2karateman

RIP Killer

Joined: October 20th, 2004, 4:16 pmPosts: 10136Location: Where ever I'm at now

Re: Lions Team Needs

Wayne Fontes wrote:

Cincy has two picks as well. They might try to make a move up to grab Richardson.

I don't see Cinci moving up for Richardson, unless he falls beyond the number 12 pick. The need at RB for them is not that desperate.

The issue with Detroit picking at 23 is that the most plentiful position of value at that spot is.....DT. Michael Brockers, Fletcher Cox, Dontari Poe, Jerel Worthy, Brandon Thompson.....all players who may be available who have value somewhere around that selection. Another position like that is WR. Alshon Jeffery, Kendall Wright, Mohamed Sanu.....all have value pegged to be somewhere near that 23 spot.

I suspect that the top linebackers that would fit the 43 scheme, Luke Kuechly and Zach Brown, will be gone by then. It's also a strong possibility that Alfonzo Dennard will be gone, even Janoris Jenkins. So forget about a CB in round one if the Lions stand pat.

The Lions may have a shot at a DE, like Whitney Mercilus or even Nick Reed. Or they could take an interior offensive lineman like Cordy Glenn or Peter Konz. But the positions with the most plentiful number of players who have value at the Lions pick is DT and WR, which the Lions don't need.

_________________I will not put on blinders when it comes to our QBs performances.

January 20th, 2012, 3:10 pm

Wayne Fontes

Color Commentator - John Madden

Joined: January 19th, 2007, 3:21 amPosts: 1919Location: A2

Re: Lions Team Needs

I think Cincy could really benefit from a stud like Richardson. Benson is a pedestrian at best RB who will be 29 by next season. There are very few RB's who play well past 30, so he's at the tail end of his productivity. They've got the young QB and WR who look promising for the future, and you add a RB to a solid OL and solid D they could make some noise.

_________________Forward down the field!

January 20th, 2012, 4:12 pm

liontrax

1st Round Pick

Joined: March 21st, 2005, 2:11 pmPosts: 1201Location: Wolverine, Mi.

Re: Lions Team Needs

inheritedlionsfan wrote:

This would be a good year for a Patriots style trade. We get somebody's 2nd rounder this year and their first next year for #23.

Or a late 1st and an additional 2nd, or two 2nd's plus a 3rd or 4th rounder. Philly and NE have additional 2nd's.