wayneal wrote:I was informed that The Burning Man Foundation has acquired private land in Austin Texas. So, my question to you fellow-Burners is, "Are we ready to evolve to another location?" It is clear to me that Nevada does not welcome the Burning Man event, despite the long running negotiations and permits.

Any comments or thoughts are welcome.

Does anyone know if this bit about land in Austin, TX is true? I'd love to see some back up information or have a reference... I might just piss my pants if this is true. Though, I would miss the playa dust... but my lungs might not... hmmm. hahaha

wayneal wrote:I was informed that The Burning Man Foundation has acquired private land in Austin Texas. So, my question to you fellow-Burners is, "Are we ready to evolve to another location?" It is clear to me that Nevada does not welcome the Burning Man event, despite the long running negotiations and permits.

Any comments or thoughts are welcome.

Does anyone know if this bit about land in Austin, TX is true? I'd love to see some back up information or have a reference... I might just piss my pants if this is true. Though, I would miss the playa dust... but my lungs might not... hmmm. hahaha

I'd think not. I don't thing the LLC has enough cash to be getting into land deals.

Of course, there are those who add up the reciepts without looking at the expences, and conclude that the LLC is rolling in it, but they've never convinced me.

The Lady with a Lamprey

"The powerful are exploiting people, art and ideas, and this leads to us plebes debating how to best ration ice.Man, no wonder they always win....." Lonesomebri

wayneal wrote:I was informed that The Burning Man Foundation has acquired private land in Austin Texas. So, my question to you fellow-Burners is, "Are we ready to evolve to another location?" It is clear to me that Nevada does not welcome the Burning Man event, despite the long running negotiations and permits.

Any comments or thoughts are welcome.

Does anyone know if this bit about land in Austin, TX is true? I'd love to see some back up information or have a reference... I might just piss my pants if this is true. Though, I would miss the playa dust... but my lungs might not... hmmm. hahaha

it's all true.. every one go'en TX

go'na give up the SF home base and hand over the Gerlach ranch to the locals..

wayneal wrote:I was informed that The Burning Man Foundation has acquired private land in Austin Texas. So, my question to you fellow-Burners is, "Are we ready to evolve to another location?" It is clear to me that Nevada does not welcome the Burning Man event, despite the long running negotiations and permits.

Any comments or thoughts are welcome.

Does anyone know if this bit about land in Austin, TX is true? I'd love to see some back up information or have a reference... I might just piss my pants if this is true. Though, I would miss the playa dust... but my lungs might not... hmmm. hahaha

it's all true.. every one go'en TX

go'na give up the SF home base and hand over the Gerlach ranch to the locals..

Captain Goddammit wrote:Way too many people think that somehow the normal laws about drugs don't apply at Burning Man. But then, the people that think stupid shit like that ARE on drugs...

stupid?

most of the people you are referring to realize that various laws and legal proceedures apply universally throughout the united states. but people often loose sight of this in the immediate context of burningman due to the nature of the event. its a natural human tendency to adapt to an environment, especially within a confined one with an exciting culture that is very different, while simultaneously under constant reinforcement to new social rules and rituals.

its where those two environments come into contact that causes the problems. law enforcement lives in one, most others are adapting to another. but unfortunately law enforcement's role is to superimpose itself on the other through an intimidating presence or action - and unfortunately that includes doing so within the confines of the event, directly conflicting with bmans beliefs and principals. people are in the opposite mindset, and thats intentional to help create an incredibly open environment and enabled sense of freedom. when two such polarized forces come into contact, there will always be strong reactions that neither completely understands the other.

i realize this clearly but most dont see things on those terms - does that make me more intelligent, and people like you stupid?

That's an interesting way of putting it, spect. I think I"ve thought parallel to that a time or two, but never quite that way. I sometimes feel very impatient with counter-cultures, because their rebellions can include the pettiest, stupidest, "I'm a real man, not my mommy's son" bullshit that just doesn't seem worth the bother. I have days when I think B.E.D. is more radical than 90% of the stuff on playa.

Oay, I'm thread drifting.

And for what it's worth, I think that as our brains all work differently that "stupidity" is hard to measure.

The Lady with a Lamprey

"The powerful are exploiting people, art and ideas, and this leads to us plebes debating how to best ration ice.Man, no wonder they always win....." Lonesomebri

Captain Goddammit wrote:Way too many people think that somehow the normal laws about drugs don't apply at Burning Man. But then, the people that think stupid shit like that ARE on drugs...

stupid?

most of the people you are referring to realize that various laws and legal proceedures apply universally throughout the united states. but people often loose sight of this in the immediate context of burningman due to the nature of the event. its a natural human tendency to adapt to an environment, especially within a confined one with an exciting culture that is very different, while simultaneously under constant reinforcement to new social rules and rituals.

you missed that one by a mile..

the stupid brought the drugs.. intending to break the law..

or were messed up before leaving home..

some how people can't get the woodstock model out of there head.. Burning Man is not you grannys Woodstock..Get over it..

most counter-cultures are in a primal state of formation. which means in absence of having a solid and identifying set of rules and rituals, extra emphasis on creating separations serves to help the identity - relating to how different they are by contrasting it with what they hope to break from. unfortunately that gives a negative attitude because its mostly negative based separations, because we usually dont separate from something positive.

and exactly on the stupid thing, which was my point in an indirect way. when we dont understand where people are comming from... thats when its a shortcut or lazy way to resolve that internal conflict, by simply giving them a label that downplays thier significance while elevating ours.

Y'know, everytime law enforcement comes up, I see these conversations go to the polar opposites, it's always:

"It's a police state" vs. "Only guilty people get busted."

The truth has always been somewhere in the middle. If you do the crime, you can expect to pay the price just like in the default world. That doesn't justify a free-for-all on our civil rights though. The overt presence has a chilling effect on both free speech and right of assembly. It's time for it to stop.

tapeta wrote:Here's the thing about drugs at BM: drugs are ordinary. Drugs are what we do anyway, when we're at home. Don't make a big deal out of your drug use, especially to yourself. BM is mind-bending in so many ways that have nothing to do with taking drugs. Thinks of drugs as a substrate to the experience of Burning Man. A background to the experience, if you will. Take what you brought, share with friends, then head out into BRC for some real mindfuckery.

Drugs I recommend: LSD (for the energy)cannabis (only the edible type for me, thanks)alcohol (loosens you up, but drink lots of water too.)Benzos or trazadone: for sleeping.

Drugs I don't recommend:Ecstacy: somehow, just seems to get in the way for me. YMMV.GHB: you get overheated and keep having to take naps.Mushrooms: Sensory overload is just too much on shrooms.

The list could go on, but those are the highlights for me. Highlights, geddit?

never liked sharing.. friends some time get so twisted they screw the ride for the rest.. alcohol is a real downer.. friends get depressed, sick and puke.. and the hangovers are waste of time.. shroons take you away from the party.. best left to Sat. cartoons with the sound off..

Gotta find me first. Here's the problem though: I look like a cop. So you can tell your cop buddies or your cop relatives or maybe you're a cop, just look for the guy who looks like a cop (big, pretty well built, short hair, no tattoos) who's laughing and having a good time. If you look exactly during the right few seconds you might see me passing some drugs to someone. Maybe that naked chick with the rabbit ears and the cottontail costume just got a hit of righteous LSD from me and is now going to have a wonderful time on the playa. What are you gonna do? Call in an air strike? Get a buncha cops on their "harleys" to throw us all in jail? But then we'll get out and go back to BM and take drugs again.

What would cops at Burning Man do without a barrel to shoot fish in? BM cops are barely literate, and have no skills to speak of. Here's what they'd do: they'd be down at the freeway onramp with a sign saying "WIL WERK 4 FUD". Cops at BM are to be pitied, not feared..

Gotta find me first. Here's the problem though: I look like a cop. So you can tell your cop buddies or your cop relatives or maybe you're a cop, just look for the guy who looks like a cop (big, pretty well built, short hair, no tattoos) who's laughing and having a good time. If you look exactly during the right few seconds you might see me passing some drugs to someone. Maybe that naked chick with the rabbit ears and the cottontail costume just got a hit of righteous LSD from me and is now going to have a wonderful time on the playa. What are you gonna do? Call in an air strike? Get a buncha cops on their "harleys" to throw us all in jail? But then we'll get out and go back to BM and take drugs again.

What would cops at Burning Man do without a barrel to shoot fish in? BM cops are barely literate, and have no skills to speak of. Here's what they'd do: they'd be down at the freeway onramp with a sign saying "WIL WERK 4 FUD". Cops at BM are to be pitied, not feared..

I really really really need to get in touch with someone who might be able to point me in the right direction. I want to report my incident and connect with someone who might know of a good attorney who's helped other burners.

If anyone can help me connect with the right people... I would be extremely grateful.

I really really really need to get in touch with someone who might be able to point me in the right direction. I want to report my incident and connect with someone who might know of a good attorney who's helped other burners.

If anyone can help me connect with the right people... I would be extremely grateful.

Artemis wrote:Not sure if you read something other than I did, but what JRS printed was the website alone. When you go the website, there's not any contact information unless you want to donate money or volunteer.

crap,, i could not get on the site. where the hell is the information.. or can you get there by filling out the police contact form??

swampdog wrote:Age bias? OP says he's a thirty-something professor. I know many of the posters on the thread are old bastards like me. Maybe they just don't pay that much attention to folks over 50.

Swamp Dog, I didn't realize you were such an old bastard, though, you were looking rather blue around the gills if I recall. Of course, it could just be the LSD/MJ/E that the BLM/LEO who repelled down from his black helicopter resplendent in his tin foil coveralls gifted me.

So, theres plenty of law around. Whatever. Keep your stash at your camp then. If your legal, you got nothing to worry about. They're just out there doing their jobs (no there was harmed in the typing of the previous sentence)

There are yahoo's in every job. Well, except for EMS, here we have Paragods. And yes, they are very annoying as well

I appreciate the job they do, I was one in the USAF (a LEO, not a yahoo)(really!) I thanked them, gave them thumbs up. Even though they didn't give my son any schwag this year. The bastards.

Excuse me Ma'am, your going to feel a small prick._______________________________________

Artemis wrote:Not sure if you read something other than I did, but what JRS printed was the website alone. When you go the website, there's not any contact information unless you want to donate money or volunteer.

crap,, i could not get on the site. where the hell is the information.. or can you get there by filling out the police contact form??

In another thread where she posted the same thing, I pointed her to yet another thread where someone gave an actual lawyer's contact info.

I check thed lawyers for burners site very carefully, went through the whole site map etc., and could only find the feedback form, volunteer and donation info. in terms of reaching someone. It's not entirely clear to me that completing the feedback form will result in any prompt assistance. Someone else who was asking for contact info had already completed the form and was just trying to track down a contact.

Pinemom wrote:This THREAD is just silly!

Yes, I think it is a bit. I myself had very little encounter with LEO. I waved hello to them whenever they passed, stopped and had basic chichat with a couple, but nothing more. They are professionals, just out doing their job and from what I've observed to date, deserve my respect and appreciation. While I don't like their presence making me feel as if I'm being watched and judged, I recognize that if I were in a crisis, I would turn to them. This is no different than in my hometown/city.

As Crypto suggests some folks will have encounters, some won't. Only those who do and have bad encounters are likely to post, and thus it seems like there is a greater presence.

I would disagree a bit with what PM says though if it were established that (1) the police presence and rate of arrests is greater than in a typical city and (2) the quality of interaction was out of proportion with a typical city, e.g. a naked lady with her child surrounded by >5 officers being harassed. But to date neither of these have been established. In fact, if I remember correctly I think that the rate of arrests and incidence of crime in general is lower than a typical city.

By the way, if I understood Spectabilis correctly, I think that he was pointing out that people get confused when everything is thrown on their head.

For example, it's illegal in my city to walk around naked (or even show the bottom of your boob!). Suddenly you see lots of people running around naked. This could make one think that other laws are relaxed as well. Yes, there are plenty of things in JRS, survival guide and at gate warning people that drugs laws are applicable in BRC. But I think it's understandable that people may get confused.

Having an expectation that this is a playground where no laws apply is silly though. Confusion is one thing - indignation has no place.

Pinemom wrote:
"Would you do it walking down your neighborhood? no you wouldnt. Why the f' do you think you can get away with it @ BM? Still in the good old U.S. of A."

We don't see our neighbors walking around with their boobs showing or dicks hanging either - they would be arrested and charged as sex offenders. But I'll be willing to bet Pinemom enjoys sitting in camp watching the festivities and making that bike ride... It is not unreasonable to believe that we are (or SHOULD BE) more FREE to do these things that harm no others at Burning Man. Just because some may not choose to use drugs (anyone bring any Advil or allergy meds for the dust???) doesn't mean that those who do are any less worthy of being treated fairly on the playa by fellow burners and LEOs alike.

LEO interaction seems to be widely varied according to the posts here. We didn't see anything worse than speeding and overly aggressiveness. My biggest complaint is the size of the force. I don't know about y'all, but more than one police cruiser in my neighborhood brings everyone out of their houses to see 'what's up'. Even without direct interaction with the LEOs, the sheer numbers of them all around was ridiculous (and there were many more that went un-marked). It all starts at the gate now - what used to be a friendly check of our vehicles (looking for stowaways) has turned into a full-on border search. The gal we encountered had a major power trip going on - opened all the cupboards and even the fridge in the trailer and didn't latch them properly, by the time we got to camp, we ended up with broken items and lost food from the fridge. Welcome HOME!

We are only seeing in BRC what is occurring in the rest of the country - a much greater and well-armed police state. We went from having officers sworn to Keep the Peace to having officers sworn to Enforce the Laws. They train to be adversarial and always assume that you are the enemy. I have no problem interacting with PEACE Officers, but to have LEOs who operate outside the BRC "laws" set for the rest of us (vehicle use, speed limits, drug/alcohol use - and they do) and treat us like we are all assumed criminals is a major deterrent. They are a growing force because we have become a timid nation and say stupid shit like "well, if you break the law, you deserve to get punished". We pay legislators to sit around all day thinking of stupid new laws for us to break so they can make more money - it's a lose-lose situation for us. Isn't this why Burning Man started? Who the hell is The Man anyway??? HAVE WE FORGOTTEN ALREADY????

I'll go to Texas if it means a Burning Man that doesn't feel like a detention camp for circus entertainers. Knowing that a good portion of our ticket price goes to support this massive show of force is a real downer. How much would they miss us if we left for Texas? They should be as friendly and welcoming as the small local businesses that benefit from our desire to leave 'real-life' behind lest we take our festivities elsewhere! While Burning Man may be a practice in anti-capitalism, its 'real life' effect on the financial health of surrounding communities is enormous.

For those who would blindly support this continued show of force so that they can feel safe or just feel like good little citizens, I recommend staying home - it's much cleaner. The rest of us should be supporting the legal team to help those that had excessive or unnecessary force used against them fight back.