Tiers for non-fighting games?

I thought this would be something interesting to talk about. What are some of the tier lists for non-fighting games such as beat em ups, shmups, rpgs, etc? Not only fighting games have tiers ":^)"

Anyways, I think I'll get the ball rolling with my opinions of the tiers for Final Fight.

I would rank it in the order of:

Haggar
Cody
Guy

I place Haggar first because he's probably the best big man of ANY beat em up ever. His power is CRUSHING in this game. That pile driver of his takes half health each time! His defense is also the highest. His slow speed and large size are problems, but his pros far outweigh his cons.

Cody is very all around in every area. However, as a normal fighter, I would actually have to give the edge to Guy because of Guy's superior mobility. However, Cody's ability to fight with knives really puts him above Guy because weapons are always good, and knives are just so fucking plentiful all throughout the game.

Guy isn't bad at all actually, imo. He just isn't as good. First of all, he is very weak strength and defense wise. Next, his special ability, unlike Haggar's and Cody's, is absolutely useless. I NEVER use the wall jump. Now, I may be wrong, but it seems pointless to me. However, his mobility is a REAL big plus in this game because of the lack of a dash. And just in case anyone wonders, I play Guy myself.

The farthest I've been able to go on one credit is the fifth stage, but that place always wrecks me.

I've probably spent more time playing Virtua Tennis 2 than any other 'competitive' game outside of beat-'em-ups, mainly because of the combination of lots of days off at uni/shit local arcade not having anything else decent. I've had a lot of exposure to 2-player Virtua Tennis 2 (at least a few hours several times a week for three years), so these are the arcade tiers. I'm not tiering the women because I never played as them, ever and these tiers seem pretty consistent whatever court you play on:

Top Tier
Rafter
Henman

High-Mid Tier
Pioline
Kafelnikov

Mid Tier
Moya

Bottom Tier
Norman

Net play dominates Virtua Tennis 2 so once you get consistent MAX serves going, Rafter and Henman become damn near unbeatable. Pioline and Kafelnikov are decent at the net, which is why they're high-mid. Norman is bottom because although he's quick, it's really hard to put any sort of pressure on the other player (same with Moya, who can break serve easily but needs an errant shot from the other player before he can start using his power).

So there you go. I'd love for someone to comment but I'm sure interest in Virtua Tennis 2 here is pretty much nil...

For Super Puzzle Fighter 2 Turbo, I think you're right for the most part, but Ryu should be the worst character, don't you think? His horizontal columns are stupidly easy to counter, especiallly when playing as Ken ":^)" Also, where would you place the secret characters?

Nevermind, I figured it out ":^)" Well, I didn't know about these infiinite combos, obviously. Are they really effective enough to boost Guy and Cody past Haggar? I'm assuming yes, but I would still like to know your opinion.

Doom has a reputation of having pretty damn balanced deathmatch. In a way it's true, as there's a weapon for almost every combat situation you can think of. I wouldn't say the weapons themselves are equal, though.

Top Tier:

Sawed-off Shotgun -- The mainstay of many a Doomer's arsenal, and for good reason. One double dose of scattershot will kill or maim anyone at close to medium range, while its extra-wide spread ensures it will nail a group of guys without needing pixel-perfect precision. In addition it is a hitscan weapon, meaning the pellets travel so fast that whoever's in your crosshair cannot dodge them. Finally, Doom's lightning-fast running speed, combined with adequate cover, makes the prolonged reload time a non-issue.

Middle Tier:

Plasma Rifle -- Another hard-hitting crowd control weapon, this one with fully automatic fire and projectiles which double as a smoke screen, blocking your target's vision. Alas, being projectiles, they cannot beat bullets or pellets for speed, so dodging or running away is not difficult at long range.
RPG -- Again, lots of damage to a group of guys, but the projectile thing means you need to aim more carefully, especially in tight spaces.
BFG9000 -- Like the RPG, does massive damage over a large area but requires some skill to take full advantage of. Its slow startup and unmistakable startup sound gives enemies time and warning to either run and hide, or shoot you dead first. Therefore, a BFG fighter must anticipate when to pull the trigger and also when to turn the corner or step out from cover, so its snot-colored payload is delivered to the right place at the right time.
Chaingun and Pump Shotgun -- At long range, nothing kills better than either of these. Both deliver vast quantities of lead in tight groups at warp speed, dealing more damage to a faraway enemy than a Sawed-off will. But CQB being the norm in this game means the Sawed-off gets used more often.

Bottom Tier:

Fist and Chainsaw -- Even with a Berserk Pack, your enemies run so fast it takes mad skills to land a hit with either. Save for AFKs and other idlers unless you're just that damn good.
Pistol -- Too weak to even bother with. Fists at least have dismemberment and upgrade potential. This pea-shooter has neither.

Dynasty Warriors 3-5:
Top Tier:
Wu Dynasty- It seems people down out Wu for specific reasons but it has one positive: strength in numbers. In every battle I've played with or against the Wu, they always outnumber me. This is good for longevity battles. We're talkin bout fuckin 50 MINUTE FIGHTS!!! If you go ahead and kill the commander, it's still 20 minutes but if u like having the odds against you and enjoy 1000 K.O. fights, this is the Dynasty to roll with.
Best Officers:
Zhou Yu
Sun Ce
Zhou Tai
Ling Tong(5)
Gan Ning(if you cocky)

Mid Tier(tie):
Wei Dynasty- This is the mid level dynasty that has fewer officers but strength is upon them. The Wei could be known as the "powerhouse" dynasty due to strength outlook at the beginning of Musou Mode. Slow yet powerful, going against this dynasty could produce more challenge than Wu could dream of. If you like to go for a swift kill to the commander but don't like killing sprees, go against this dynasty. If you want power, USE this dynasty.
Best Officers:
Xaihou Dun
Xaihou Yuan
Cao Pi(5)
Xu Huang
Cao Ren

Shu Dynasty- The underdogs. Much smaller than Wei or Wu with fewer officers, why should you use this dynasty? Musou Gauge. These officers pack MAJOR musou which means longer devestation to the battlefield. Going against this dynasty isnt much challenge and very few officers for any killing sprees that go past 600 K.O. Although thought to be weak, this dynasty can keep in the battle longer due to another commander in the mist.
Best Officers:
Ma Chao
Pang Tong(for good musou)
Jiang Wei
Guan Ping(5)

Low Tier:
Other Kingdoms- The only thing that keeps this dynasty from sucking is Lu Bu. The others aren't worth your time.
Best OFFICER:
Lu Bu....nuff said....

Man...I had a pretty huge post last night, but it got deleted ...shoot, I guess I'll do it again.

Rpg Tiers, I'm considering the fact you would've maxed them out to their limits Legally.

Chrono Trigger

Top Tier
Chrono - Rainbow Sword with 70% Critical's ='s Ownage, add the fact that he's one of the fastest characters within the game, Plus extremely useful skills, pratically all the triple attacks combine with him, and Luminaire which is a Top Tier Magic Attack and he's the best, plain and simple.

Ayla - She's not so hot at the beginning, however later on, she begins to shine, especially when she goes from Fist, to Bronze Fist, to Iron Fist. That is where she's at her best, doing 1.8k on a non-critical hit, and 9999 on a critical hit, plus she's got the highest critical hit rate(excluding Chrono with Rainbow) there is no need to use her skills, she's also one of the fastest, makes her well worth it.

Robo - He can be strong, but he lacks the criticals, however, his balance of powerful magic attacks/combined with his ability to heal everyone, sets him up here, but under Chrono and Marle.

Lucca - She can do over 2k+ with Wondershot, but her Fire Attacks are too good to pass up, especially Flare, one of the best magic attacks in the game as well.

Middle Tier
Magus/Frog - Magus would be better if he did more criticals, but his offensive magic puts him here definetly, Dark Matter is his saving grace, other than that, he's okay. Frog is actually really good offensively, paired with Hero Medal, criticals happen as much as Chrono with Rainbow. However he lacks useful magical skills which limit him, yes, he can do alot of criticals, but when you have Ayla who can pull off 4k-9999 it's not as great.

Lower Tier
Marle - Let's face it man, her damage potential sucks. Her most powerful offensive magic attack is Ice Fucken 2?! If she had the potential to heal everyone she would be far better, but only being able to heal one person at a time...your better off with Frog or Robo.

I remember Sophia being broken (or close to it) because if you were to max out INT and use lighting strike (i think that was the move) you can do easy inf stun combos. You can kill Freya in less than 20 mins using Sophia in 4D, it's insane.

Regarding Puzzle Fighter, Ryu is better than Felicia/Chun because Ryu doesn't give you instant power blocks as his attack gems. Yes, you know where his gems come and can plan, but you don't have to plan against felicia/chun, they attack you once, and it's like Dan from there.

But Krauser Never runs out of ammo, and has the instant kill arm move. So any of the boss baddies (Big Chainsaw, Wolverine, etc) are instantly dead. His melee attack can also hurt multiple People like Weskers. He also doesn't run out of ammo, really.

I would put hunk slightly above Leon because Hunk has the TMP, which is good for streaks, and gets more grenades. Hunk also can neck break the chainsaw sisters.

ACK!! NO WAY!!! Cool to see a Metal Warriors fan, but you're soooo mistaken bro. Spider and Ballistic are the BEST, not worst =P.

Top: Spider and Ballistic. Spider's infinite rocks. Ballistic totally shuts down Havoc, Drache, and Nitro. That's half the cast right there. I mean it. You have .000001% chance of beating my Ballistic with Havoc or Drache, no matter WHO you are! Ballistic can have some SERIOUS problems with Prometheus tho on some levels, but since Prometheus gets slaughtered by most its not really a big deal... as an added bonus, these guys are the hardest to finish off when theyre in "critical" mode. This is what really pushes them over the edge.

then Drache, he's failry good against most but USELESS against Ballistic. Most of his stock comes from the fact that he's pretty good against Spider.

Havoc, Nitro. These guys lack the "one mistake and yuore dead" factor that Spider, Drache, and Prometheus have. And dont have the sheer power of Ballistic. So they clearly have to work harder

Prometheus. He just gets abused by everyone. He basically NEEDS a anti gravity or speed burst to have any chance of winning, cause hes got NO MOBILITY!!! There are some levels where he can be extremely deadly though. On those levels it's justifid to bump him up with Havoc, Nitro, but no higher!

The only matches that are really grossly imbalanced are Ballistic's (in his favor), the rest are very winnable but it takes a lot of work and careful play.

Just friendly discussion. If you disagree feel free to retort, and I can go into better detail

Also, for the person that put Dynasty Warriors, your tiers are TOTALLY off man. I know that game pretty well, and you're pretty damn off. No offense, just pointing it out. The most obvious example is not including Zuo Ci in the others list. Also, characters improved and got worse from game to game, so it's important to list that.

For me, Chrono Trigger, at double Stars and with everyone maxed to where they can be, this is from my views of it.

Top Tier
Chrono/Ayla - With Rainbow Sword Chrono is basically the most powerful pyhsical character within the game for a long period of time until later into the game however 70% critical owns period and he's basically one of the fastest characters period, add Luminaire which is a Top Tier Offensive Magic skill and he owns. I put Ayla up here because although she's not too great at the beginning, in the end, she's the best at pyshical damage, because of one thing, Iron Fist, non-critical hit it's like 4k, and at critical hit its 9999 that's too good to say that No.

Mid Tier
Robo/Lucca/Magus/Frog - Robo is good because he's strong and although he doesn't do alot of criticals but the biggest reason is the great balance between offensive magic/Healing everyone. Lucca is with Robo because lets face it she's strong if she criticals with her attack, over 2k, and her Flare Attack is great. Magus would be far better if he did more criticals more frequently, his pyshical attacks aren't good enough put him up there, however Dark Matter makes up for it. Frog is great if paired with Hero Medal, allowing criticals, but he falls short on his usefulness with magic, great healing, but not enough offense.

Bottom Tier
Marle - Yes, she can heal and all, however she sucks at pyshical damage, her offensive magic is only at Ice Fucken 2?! She's the worse of the bunch.

I'd have to disagree with some of your placements here, primarily with Robo's position. Now, in my mind, he is clearly the best character because he is close to being the best in nearly every important regard.

All of the following is taken from everyone with maxed stats and using Prism Specs.

In terms of normal attack, he has the most powerful non-critical damage at ~1800 with Crisis Arm and xx9 hp.

In magic attacks, he has the third most powerful attack, Shock, which does ~4800. This is behind only Luminaire (~6100) and Flare (~5100).

For pure damage, the tech of choice is Uzzi Punch, which does ~5700 with Crisis Arm and xx9 hp.

Beyond attacking, Robo also has the only full party healing single tech that completely refills hp. He also has some other good techs thrown in the mix, such as Area Bomb (~3600) and Robo Tackle (~2800, or the same as Crono's Confuse).
Robo's attributes alone are good enough to put him as the best character, but he also has good dual techs, one which always does 9999 (DoublevBomb - though it is only around Robo) and one (Beast Toss) which does 9999 given lower defense enemies (shocked Nizbel and Nizbel II for examples). Plus, Ice and Fire Tackle are the two most damaging attacks against Red Nu Spekkio.

Just behind Robo is Crono, because of the things you mentioned: Luminaire (strongest single tech), good normal attack (~1600 at 70% of the time), decent physical tech (the aforementioned Confuse), and the widest range of good dual techs. He pretty much does what Robo does, either slightly better or worse (with the exception of healing and 9999 attacks, which he does not have)

Ayla comes third, though sometimes I feel that she might be second. You already mentioned the 9999 critical hit of her Bronze Fist (her third fist), though it only does ~800 on non critical hits rather than ~4000. Before then, she still has a very good normal attack (with Iron Fist randomly causing Chaos). She only has one magic tech, Tail Spin, but it does pretty decent damage (~4800). Her physical techs are numerous and all very good: Triple Kick (~4800), Dino Tail at 1 hp (~4600), Rock Throw (~4000) and Cat Attack (~2700). She also has Charm, which is invaluable the first time through the game. Still, her lack of an all enemy magic tech puts her third.

I generally agree with the rest of your list, though my tier separation would be more like this:

Also, for the person that put Dynasty Warriors, your tiers are TOTALLY off man. I know that game pretty well, and you're pretty damn off. No offense, just pointing it out. The most obvious example is not including Zuo Ci in the others list. Also, characters improved and got worse from game to game, so it's important to list that.

None taken.
I haven't had a chance to fight with him. I had to clear Musou with everybody. I just couldn't take it. Also I was doing tiers of overall dynasty not specific characters. The best officers listed were the best to me to use for the Dynasty. I try my best but hey....even I get shit wrong. This was the first time I did non-fighting tier and it challenged me. Thanks for putting up the thread. I need the research.

'Preciate it. Props on Samurai Warriors.
Hanzo Hattori and Hideyoshi Hashiba are top tier to me cause I play with them TOO damn much!! And dude if u played Xtreme Legends, Put Tadakatsu on there. On game he's supposedly equal to Keiji.

I thought this would be something interesting to talk about. What are some of the tier lists for non-fighting games such as beat em ups, shmups, rpgs, etc? Not only fighting games have tiers ":^)"

Anyways, I think I'll get the ball rolling with my opinions of the tiers for Final Fight.

I would rank it in the order of:

Haggar
Cody
Guy

I place Haggar first because he's probably the best big man of ANY beat em up ever. His power is CRUSHING in this game. That pile driver of his takes half health each time! His defense is also the highest. His slow speed and large size are problems, but his pros far outweigh his cons.

Cody is very all around in every area. However, as a normal fighter, I would actually have to give the edge to Guy because of Guy's superior mobility. However, Cody's ability to fight with knives really puts him above Guy because weapons are always good, and knives are just so fucking plentiful all throughout the game.

Guy isn't bad at all actually, imo. He just isn't as good. First of all, he is very weak strength and defense wise. Next, his special ability, unlike Haggar's and Cody's, is absolutely useless. I NEVER use the wall jump. Now, I may be wrong, but it seems pointless to me. However, his mobility is a REAL big plus in this game because of the lack of a dash. And just in case anyone wonders, I play Guy myself.

The farthest I've been able to go on one credit is the fifth stage, but that place always wrecks me.

i gotta disagree here. you probably dont know this, seeing as you didnt mention it but cody has an INFINITE COMBO. this just really rapes all the bosses in the game as long as you have a friend to beat off the smaller enemies from ruining your infinite.

I'm not sure if you are talking about the N64 Goldeneye but if you are then you are missing the Proximity Mine, Moonraker and [obviously] the Gold PP7.

EDIT: NM. 64 Goldeneye don't have Tazer.

He is talking about N64 Goldeneye. Tazer Boy was only available through the All Guns cheat and it was very shitty. I agree with the weapons you mentioned being top tier, especially the Gold PP7. That thing was silly good.

Not only did you get these right, you got them right for all the right reasons.

It's nice to find someone who agrees with my tiering of the characters. Normally, people completely overrate Magus and much more often, they fail to recognize the greatness of Robo. I recently played a New Game of Chrono Trigger and found that Robo pretty much lacks nothing for the entire game (with the exception of speed before getting the chance to acquire many speed tabs). He has damage that is always on par with Crono's regular attack damage (only falling behind if you get the Swallow as soon as the pendant is powered), has a pretty decent magic level considering his physical attack power, strong heal spells throughout, the first multi target magic tech, the highest defense and power, etc. Robo is so woderfully beastly, plus he has a kick ass theme. Too good. Too fucking good.

Village:
Top-tier- Leon (yes, Leon. His shotgun and funneling tactics in this level as AMAZING.)High-tier- Ada(for some odd reason she gets the job done way better then the others.) Wesker (He does seem to be low on ammo more often because of his limited capacity and such.), Krauser (he does seem to have problems with his bow in areas for some odd reason.Mid-tierHunk (Ridiculous combos in this level, he's not that much worse in this level than the others, just couldn't keep him in the same tier.)

Castle:
Top-tier-Krauser (this level just works well for him in the way they line up for him compared to other characters... his flash grenades are extra useful, and the Garradors are no problem, which is a big deal.)high-tier- Wesker(Wesker has problems in this level, he's still great and better than Ada.)mid-tierHunk, Ada.bottom-tierLeon (He REALLY struggles on this level. The basic reason for him being any good-the shotgun, stinks... Garradors and plagas and arrows aren't your reload time's friends... so much for bonuses.)

I suppose I'll contribute another set of RPG tiers. These are not as solid as my Chrono Trigger tiers because I am not as intimately familiar with the game. Still, I think they are fairly accurate.

Final Fantasy 6 Natural Magic Game* Tiers

*Characters cannot equip anything that teaches a spell unless that character already knows that spell.

Top Tier:
Terra - She still has magic, which simply wins in FF6. In addition, she really good equipment and Morph, which is just absurd.

Gau - Gau is the versatility machine.Rages give him a variety of riduclous stuff, including attacks which act as the equivalent to level 3 magic almost immediately after he joins the party. He also has the Stray Cat rage, which does 4x attack 25% of the time. Also, he can equip the Snow Muffler, which is an insanely high defense armor.

Celes - She also has magic, though not as strong as Terra. She is pretty similar to Terra in nearly every regard, though she has the added option of imping herself and being set up as an imp fighter or dragoon (with the imp equipment all being very good).

Gogo - Has access to magic through mimic. Only person who can equip things that normally teach magic (since it cannot learn spells). This is of primary importance because of the Paladin Shield. Beats Gau in versatility, but because of stats, does not do everything quite as well.

Mid Tier:
Mog - Dances do really well in the World of Balance (with incredible levels of ownage on the Floating Continent), but fall off in World of Ruin. Fortunately, he can immediately switch to a dragoon setup. This works really well because he can equip the Pearl/Aura Lance and is very quick, allowing for many attacks at once through Dragon Horn. He too can equip the Snow Muffler, so he can absorb damage if not acting as a dragoon.

Edgar - Could conceivably be higher than Mog because the difference between their abilities is slight. Instead of dances , Edgar has tools, which also do well in World of Balance before falling off in World of Ruin. He has very good equipment, but most of it does not work with his dragoon setup, which is his best option in World of Ruin.

Setzer - Slots are very good throughout the game if the player has taken the time to learn how to use them effectively. Regardless, they still do decent damage with easy to achieve 7-Flush. Becomes really effective with Fixed Dice and Offering, which can be obtained very easily as soon as Mog is acquired. Fixed Dice do not suffer from Offering's usual 50% damage reduction, so Setzer becomes a very effective source of damage.

Shadow - Begins the game with very good stats, which become more important without the stat boosting Espers. Throw is a very good skill, even using cheap and easy to acquire Shurikens. Throw also allows for a variety of elemental attacks, which are hard to find without magic. Also, Throw allows Shadow to make the entire party immune to physical attakcs and to heal party members (throw Earth Rods at Gaia Gear wearers). Plus, he has Interceptor, who is simply awesome.

Low Tier:
Strago - Lores allow for magic equivalent attacks, even though they are difficult to find (much harder than Gau's good rages, which are mostly found immediately). Beyond that, Strago has pretty good M. Block and can use Healing Rods on members of the party.

Sabin - Everybody loves to put Sabin really high normally, but NMG reveals that he starts out as an average character and then becomes overshadowed quickly. Blitzes are pretty good for damage early in World of Balance, but lose effectiveness later because of his low magic power. In this regard, he is completely useless when Gogo enters the party (Gogo can use Blitzes and does more damage because of higher magic power).

Locke - Locke is normally very good, but cannot compete in a NMG. His best option for damage late in the game is Genji Glove and Offering. The problem is this setup requires very high vigor, which cannot be increased in NMG with the lack of Espers. Thus, Locke is left behind in damage pretty quickly by many characters. Still, he has good equipment, good speed and a decent skill early on with Steal/Mug. These keep him out of Bottom Tier.

Bottom Tier:
Cyan - Cyan is good when he first enters the party and then never again. Dispatch is better than his normal attack, but it still is not very good. His other STechs are slow and thus ineffective.

Umaro - Completely random and not very good (though above Relm).

Relm - Has very high magic power which completly goes to waste. Beyond that, she has nothing except a potentially game breaking glitch (not ST Akuma game breaking - fuck up your save files game breaking). She is quick though, so you can be reminded of her uselessness often within any battle. I guess that accounts for something.

theres an ooold as thread where we tier everything from bushido blade to all the ff games i suggest u people find it very good resource
off the top of my head
no fuckin way cid is that low in ff7 chars with one hit limits? are u kidding me?
no way cyan wherehe is cyan is the most god like char in the game ff6

someone explain how xp professional is lower then xp home...

bust my gun at the sun just to sit in the shade~
ἐξίσταται γὰρ πάντ' ἀπ' ἀλλήλων δίχα

Hanzo Hattori and Hideyoshi Hashiba are top tier to me cause I play with them TOO damn much!! And dude if u played Xtreme Legends, Put Tadakatsu on there. On game he's supposedly equal to Keiji.

I gotta pick up XL at some point, I love me some Koei games, so it's inevitable, probably before I pick up DW5. Hanzo is the effin' man, yeah, I kinda left him out....him, Mitsuhide and Yukimura were the first peeps I finished it with....

I must admit that I am not a fan of Cyan in general, so in not using him, I may have missed something. The only really strong point about him I have seen is the Psycho Cyan glitch. While that is really overpowered, it takes quite a few turns to set up properly with many conditions having to be met. In that time, most enemies can be damaged quite a bit with a party of four good characters, so I don't see how that might suddenly turn him into a god like character. Plus, he is completely dependant on two other characters in order to carry out the glitch, so it cannot really be attributed to him being a good character. Rather, it is possible to consider a party like that as top tier on a list of parties.

I suppose I'll contribute another set of RPG tiers. These are not as solid as my Chrono Trigger tiers because I am not as intimately familiar with the game. Still, I think they are fairly accurate.

Final Fantasy 6 Natural Magic Game* Tiers

*Characters cannot equip anything that teaches a spell unless that character already knows that spell.

Top Tier:
Terra - She still has magic, which simply wins in FF6. In addition, she really good equipment and Morph, which is just absurd.

Gau - Gau is the versatility machine.Rages give him a variety of riduclous stuff, including attacks which act as the equivalent to level 3 magic almost immediately after he joins the party. He also has the Stray Cat rage, which does 4x attack 25% of the time. Also, he can equip the Snow Muffler, which is an insanely high defense armor.

Celes - She also has magic, though not as strong as Terra. She is pretty similar to Terra in nearly every regard, though she has the added option of imping herself and being set up as an imp fighter or dragoon (with the imp equipment all being very good).

Gogo - Has access to magic through mimic. Only person who can equip things that normally teach magic (since it cannot learn spells). This is of primary importance because of the Paladin Shield. Beats Gau in versatility, but because of stats, does not do everything quite as well.

Mid Tier:
Mog - Dances do really well in the World of Balance (with incredible levels of ownage on the Floating Continent), but fall off in World of Ruin. Fortunately, he can immediately switch to a dragoon setup. This works really well because he can equip the Pearl/Aura Lance and is very quick, allowing for many attacks at once through Dragon Horn. He too can equip the Snow Muffler, so he can absorb damage if not acting as a dragoon.

Edgar - Could conceivably be higher than Mog because the difference between their abilities is slight. Instead of dances , Edgar has tools, which also do well in World of Balance before falling off in World of Ruin. He has very good equipment, but most of it does not work with his dragoon setup, which is his best option in World of Ruin.

Setzer - Slots are very good throughout the game if the player has taken the time to learn how to use them effectively. Regardless, they still do decent damage with easy to achieve 7-Flush. Becomes really effective with Fixed Dice and Offering, which can be obtained very easily as soon as Mog is acquired. Fixed Dice do not suffer from Offering's usual 50% damage reduction, so Setzer becomes a very effective source of damage.

Shadow - Begins the game with very good stats, which become more important without the stat boosting Espers. Throw is a very good skill, even using cheap and easy to acquire Shurikens. Throw also allows for a variety of elemental attacks, which are hard to find without magic. Also, Throw allows Shadow to make the entire party immune to physical attakcs and to heal party members (throw Earth Rods at Gaia Gear wearers). Plus, he has Interceptor, who is simply awesome.

Low Tier:
Strago - Lores allow for magic equivalent attacks, even though they are difficult to find (much harder than Gau's good rages, which are mostly found immediately). Beyond that, Strago has pretty good M. Block and can use Healing Rods on members of the party.

Sabin - Everybody loves to put Sabin really high normally, but NMG reveals that he starts out as an average character and then becomes overshadowed quickly. Blitzes are pretty good for damage early in World of Balance, but lose effectiveness later because of his low magic power. In this regard, he is completely useless when Gogo enters the party (Gogo can use Blitzes and does more damage because of higher magic power).

Locke - Locke is normally very good, but cannot compete in a NMG. His best option for damage late in the game is Genji Glove and Offering. The problem is this setup requires very high vigor, which cannot be increased in NMG with the lack of Espers. Thus, Locke is left behind in damage pretty quickly by many characters. Still, he has good equipment, good speed and a decent skill early on with Steal/Mug. These keep him out of Bottom Tier.

Bottom Tier:
Cyan - Cyan is good when he first enters the party and then never again. Dispatch is better than his normal attack, but it still is not very good. His other STechs are slow and thus ineffective.

Umaro - Completely random and not very good (though above Relm).

Relm - Has very high magic power which completly goes to waste. Beyond that, she has nothing except a potentially game breaking glitch (not ST Akuma game breaking - fuck up your save files game breaking). She is quick though, so you can be reminded of her uselessness often within any battle. I guess that accounts for something.

No way is Relm below Umaro. No way should anyone be below Umaro. This should be obvious because everyone else is controllable (with the exception of Gau's Rages, but you get to choose the Rage). I mean, Relm can still double Ultima for one MP, which is much better than anything Umaro has.

Other than that, I can't really comment too much because I'm not too familiar with the game, but Umaro not being dead last is a glaring error.

Also, good job with the Chrono Trigger tiers. They're just about perfect.

No way is Relm below Umaro. No way should anyone be below Umaro. This should be obvious because everyone else is controllable (with the exception of Gau's Rages, but you get to choose the Rage). I mean, Relm can still double Ultima for one MP, which is much better than anything Umaro has.

Other than that, I can't really comment too much because I'm not too familiar with the game, but Umaro not being dead last is a glaring error.

Also, good job with the Chrono Trigger tiers. They're just about perfect.

The tiers I posted were for a Natural Magic Game. That means, nobody can use magic (except for Terra, Celes and Gogo) because they do not learn magic naturally. Thus, Relm is pure shit. Her only good quality normally is having the highest magic power. This does not benefit her without any magic to use. I believe I mentioned all this in the original post.