Thursday, January 5, 2012

Racial Misunderstandings: A Black Woman and a White Woman Sit Down to Talk About "Gone With the Wind" and...

In recent months, we have talked a good amount about historical memory and how race is a variable in our shared--yet often different--understandings of American life. For some, these matters are intensely personal, for others they are asides, and for many more, a cultivated naivete about the centrality of race in this country's long struggle towards full democracy is a luxury afforded only by white privilege.

I have alluded to the book a Country of Strangers on a few occasions. It is a good text, not particularly rigorous, but very readable, "journalistic," and full of great stories about how real people negotiate (or not) the color line in America.

With all of the back and forth about the Republican Party regarding its embrace of the Confederacy and the Lost Cause as a way to mobilize conservative white voters against Barack Obama, we must also acknowledge how this literal whitewashing of history by the Right would not be so compelling this process was gross and obvious in its bigoted hostility towards black and brown people.

While the Tea Party GOP uses dog whistles, and at times naked appeals to white racism to motivate their voters, electoral calculus in the post Civil Rights era demands some feigned effort at color blindness and race neutrality. As I have pointed out previously, conservatives who are motivated by racism in their hostility towards Obama, specifically, and "liberals" (as "race traitors," the imagined advocates for the interests of people of color) more generally, need some chaff, a convenient out, so that they can continue to feel like good people.

Few people want to be labeled as active racists--even if their political worldview and decision-making are animated by white racism on a semi-deep, yet not quite subconscious, level. The following exchange detailed in A Country of Strangers between two friends--one white and one black--about the movie Gone with the Wind captures the willful ignorance of the Tea Party GOP faithful on these matters.

Just as I suggested about Santorum's and Gingrich's public(s), Right-wing white populists are not necessarily pernicious racists. Rather, they simply subscribe to a type of common sense that is based on excluding people of color, and on the assumed superiority of Whiteness, White values, White dreams, White hopes, and White politics as the very definition of what it means to be "American."

Is the white woman in the following situation a "racist?" Perhaps, but only a "passive" one such that her assumptions, lack of asking questions about her own universal "I," and lazy thinking about a shared life experience with others who happen to not be white, is her shortcoming. However, this type of ignorance is a short stones throw away from the type of prejudice and bigotry that is the foundation for Birtherism, and all of the American exceptionalism, nativist, "Real America" talk that is the Esperanto of the New Right.

Do tell me. Am I onto something here? Or am I being too hard on an otherwise well-intended woman, one who is simply blinded by the gaze of whiteness...so much so that she is unable to see how race is central to the full personhood and humanity of people, even her close friends, who may not be white?

98 comments:

am I being too hard on an otherwise well-intended woman, one who is simply blinded by the gaze of whiteness...so much so that she is unable to see how race is central to the full personhood and humanity of people, even her close friends, who may not be white?

Kimberly is a mature human being. Would that there were more such folk in positions to guide the collective consciousness of black folk, instead of the cohort of reactionary jiggaboos who've FUBAR'd the masses with their nonsense and jibberish, because when you get right down to it, beyond their imaginary racial grievances, they don't have any substantive value proposition to offer...,

I've found it really just depends on the person, my mood, and the setting. How many of us have to deal with clueless nonblacks on a daily basis? Conserve energy, choose your battles, I say.

I don't agree with the sentiment that "Whites often need to hear blacks' anger" and such, as it was written in the piece. Whatever for? I am at the point in my life where performance of all my legendary Black Anger, in the service of coaxing nonblacks into their little racial epiphanies, just isn't a priority.

In my mind, that is not what friends do for each other. A friend as clueless as Cindy? She may or may not get the courtesy of the explanation Kimberly gave her, again, depending on the situation, my mood, and my energy level. Maybe a shift to the topic of Raintree County (1957) or something. But labeling her "yur a racist", pfft, just not a badge of honor I'm inclined to bestow.

I share your views as well.. I hated this scene between Richard and Gene but that is another lament for another day..

In my activism I have always avoided the role of the noble understanding negro I don't perform anymore for whites..

With regard to CNu's continued theme of dismissing Black folks and his twisted view that many of us engage in imaginary grievances apparently he ignores the reality of DC's schools that suspend Black students at disportional rate he ignores the recent BOA settlement regarding discrimination etc..

I think CNu knows John Covington and how this yahoo contributed to the decay of the KC school districts.. I wonder if CNu was also a part of this decay and perhaps it is why he is fixated on the shortcomings of his mentors and peers??

At some point CNu's denial and apologist role will come to an end when his children become victims of real racial grievances until then of course we must confront his fiction with the reality of the present day..

I have no problem with educating colored guys like CNu I bet he loved Gene Wilder's protrayal..

@Cnu. Do you have a flowchart where all roads lead to "jiggaboos." We talk about the weather and jiggaboos are inserted. How was your dinner last night? Went to a French restaurant and a jiggaboo 2nd or 3rd line inheritor of the civil rights movement ruined my meal. Had a satisfying bowel movement and a damn jigaboo walked in. Got to mix it up, at this point you have jigaboo ocd or Tourettes.

Given there's no way I use it even a 1/10th as much as you and the moon crickets use "white racist" - or some variant thereof - in your endless reality evasions and futile efforts to dodge substantive discussion of the issues I raise in response to your posts - I find it infinitely amusing that you would even dare object.

Frankly CDV, I expected you to have so much more game than what you've mustered here-to-date. The fact of the matter is that you've held up your racism chasing oeuvre with much less vigor and aplomb than other folks hold up their black conservatism.

You have no answers whatsoever for my scathing indictment of preachers, politicians, lawyers, activists, afrodemics and others.

Since I don't now - nor have I ever - engaged in apologetics for racists, conservatives, etc. and simply accept that there's an intractable 20% that must be dealt with existentially - I have no rhetorical or political vulnerabilities for you and your'n to exploit.

Since I do more by 8:00am for folks than any dozen of you combined, my Black partisan bona fides are also beyond reproach.

That makes me about the stickiest wicket you jiggaboos have ever encountered - and I must say DA, DA, DA, DAH-DAH - I'M LOVIN IT!!!

@Cnu. You are so much fun. That is why I indulge you. Did it ever occur to you that I am just not interested in talking about those topics on your terms? Or that others are not either because your approach is not very conducive to collaboration and is a bit self-important and ego aggrandizing...even by internet standards?

The internet is a big place, you can write about that all day and all night long. I do my own thing, I don't live to perform for your agenda. Sorry. Frustrating. I know.

In my activism I have always avoided the role of the noble understanding negro I don't perform anymore for whites..

I call it a Mammy Complex.

Oh Mammy, sit us at your knee and teach us about what it's like to have to be poor-you all day! Look at ME I'm so willing to listen, validate ME, reassure ME what a good person I am, since everything you do is by nature geared to facilitate my own personal journey of self-discovery, anyway!

Then there is the counterpart, social S&M.

Oh, Furious Black Chick of the Ill Temper, train me with the leather bullwhip of your ceaseless wrath; don the fetish shoes of race-rage to remind ME of my own station in life! Make ME feel guilty for having been born looking like I do, oh poor me! Me, me, ME.

I know, let's play Progressive Stack and call ourselves reversing the power dynamic! I'll put on a maid's outfit and you can wear this leather teddy of acrimony, to facilitate my own personal journey of self-discovery! Sexy!!

[quote]this literal whitewashing of history by the Right would not be so compelling if it were gross and obvious in its bigoted hostility towards black and brown people.[quote]

Mr DeVega.How are you doing BROTHER?Happy New Year.

Oh - what is MY "New Years Wish"?

ANSWER: To see YOU invited on one of the "White Progressive Cheshire Fox Shows" that keep you as a featured guest from time to time and INCLUDE THEM - these White Male Progressives AS an immutable part of this WHITE SUPREMACY that you love to call out. I believe that they are merely the "Good Cop" as this effectively wins them the INVESTMENT of the "Black Community DEVELOPMENT CONSCIOUSNESS and HOPES" into their ideology and party.

Two Points:

1) Why is it that Chris Matthews and Prof Melissa Harris-Perry attributed the loss of White voter support for Obama to RACISM yet neither showed any "intellectual curiosity" as to why the BLACK VOTER SUPPORT remained high - not only for OBAMA as we suffer through crises in employment, academics and cultural-social realities that the ENTIRE ARCHITECTURE of forces that dominate our community have erected?

2) IF YOU WATCH "DEMOCRACY NOW" this week these "White Progressives" are ripping into Obama for:* Signing the "Indefinite Detention clause"* For Ratcheting Up the conflict with Iran by slapping more sanctions on them* For Hijacking the "Arab Spring" - in which the dictators that the US has long supported have been deposed by the people yet now the USA is attempting (per the words of the Progressive analysts) seeking to manipulate the process so that "US Friendly" governments are put into power.

Brother DeVega. (and you to Brother Thrasher) I love you like BROTHERS. This despite my growing resentment of what you stand for.

It is so clear that your favorite subject is REPUBLICANS as a proxy substitution for "White SUPREMACY" because you are not quite able to deal with the INNER SPACE inside of the Black Community which has had great VICTORIES in what you would have us to focus upon but MASSIVE LOSSES in what WE SHOULD BE FOCUSING ON.

@Cnu. boy you are hostile these last few weeks. eat more fiber or something. you can't win a fight i choose not to participate in. i am just not interested in your games, sorry. they are entertaining, and i encourage your self-congratulatory good works, and hope you change lives.

as i have said before, i own my expertise. i don't claim to know anything. i don't prognosticate on matters outside of my narrow training. so your point about not wanting to contribute to your post great decline mad max reboot is an admission that i don't have the skills you are looking for. on that you will have to look elsewhere. so be it. good luck.

but your fixation on remaking other's interests to suit your own just seem odd is all.

you also make an error in reasoning--you assume i have some connection to these 2nd and 3rd line CR types you keep talking about. I don't. You should step up and harangue them--maybe you can win their hearts and minds?

It is fitting that constructive followed your post, you two are becoming parrots of each other.

So please again, what do you want? why this upsetness, a real one-note broken record jigaboo meme as of late? Was there a project that fell through and you are upset? Did someone do you wrong?

This is rich observing an inflated ego like CNu unbale to come to grips with his shortcomings and ineptitude try to deflect and indict those of us who tire of his constant fiction about his worth, depth, intellect etc..

At some point CNu's tired rants will no longer bring reaction from people like me and others ..

I am prepared to dump his arse in the alley with the other trash but because I am an elder with a long and seasoned track record in interacting with Black males wounded by the pathologies of oppression and cultural underdevelopment willing to still keep hope alive for the brother..

Now my offer of good faith in CNu's psoturing is not an attempt to censor or in any fashion reject his independent thinking ocntributions I just want him to step up his game and give us more than his tired rants against our elders...

as i have said before, i own my expertise. i don't claim to know anything. i don't prognosticate on matters outside of my narrow training. so your point about not wanting to contribute to your post great decline mad max reboot is an admission that i don't have the skills you are looking for. on that you will have to look elsewhere. so be it. good luck.

you funny..,

I haven't asked you to contribute to a dayyum thing.

Notwithstanding my private request to you along with 2 dozen other afrodemic pretenders to engage in some pre-emptive rhetorical work against what's about to happen to the neediest children in the Michigan public school system.

predictably, moon-crickets....,

In public, right up on your own front porch, I have, however, asked you to back up the harsh, bitch-assed, psychological, cultural, and political critiques you daily level at others and which you can't tolerate for half a minute when they're redirected at you and your'n.

you also make an error in reasoning--you assume i have some connection to these 2nd and 3rd line CR types you keep talking about. I don't. You should step up and harangue them--maybe you can win their hearts and minds?

lol,

kneegrow...,

who on the radio pitching his shizznit?

all-a-y'all wannabe media go-to public intellectuals are connected to the "architecture of forces that dominate" black consensus reality.

So please again, what do you want? why this upsetness, a real one-note broken record jigaboo meme as of late? Was there a project that fell through and you are upset? Did someone do you wrong?

c'mon brah...,

really brah?!?!?!?!

do they put the rubber band on your sizzack, hit you up with a tetch of benzocaine, and twist them muhphuggahs off for you like adolescent Becky do a hog or a sheep in 4-H at the county fair, or, do they compel you to freely offer them muhphuggahs up in "collaborative", "consensus-building" service to the goddess of tenure?

Help me out here brah?

Cause there's collaboration and and the brothers will work that shit out and then there's this queasy, cheezy, don't make nobody mad shit - that you're on about.

OC, any suggestion that I've laid out a BBC meat trail big enough to choke three Missouri mules is purely coincidental. That's not for you, so don't fall for it and commence to robotically self-stimulating and responding - if your name Bennett, pause, breathe deeply, and don't get in it.

Now my offer of good faith in CNu's psoturing is not an attempt to censor or in any fashion reject his independent thinking ocntributions I just want him to step up his game and give us more than his tired rants against our elders...

have you ever heard the expression "lives devoid of value"?

Cobb blacklisted you.

I blacklisted you.

CDV permits you to function as a useful idiot without ever even considering bringing you into the game...,

Cnu. "do they put the rubber band on your sizzack, hit you up with a tetch of benzocaine, and twist them muhphuggahs off for you like adolescent Becky do a hog or a sheep in 4-H at the county fair, or, do they compel you to freely offer them muhphuggahs up in "collaborative", "consensus-building" service to the goddess of tenure?"

That is damn funny. I like that one! I would love to get a drink with you after you take me to the shooting range. Would be fun.

OC, any suggestion that I've laid out a BBC meat trail big enough to choke three Missouri mules is purely coincidental. That's not for you, so don't fall for it and commence to robotically self-stimulating and responding - if your name Bennett, pause, breathe deeply, and don't get in it.

Here is the deal you at best are an interesting daily amusement ..You like your boy Cobb resent me because my offspring have law and college degrees..I am a recognized and accomplished /activist in my home town and I don't hide behind an alias..

I probably look better than you in person, speak better than you in person and have more assets and credentials than you will ever have so I do understand your over the top viseral emotional fixation with me..

Observing you get unglued and emotional with me and then observing you back pedal and retreat and seek acceptance from CD and OC confirms a lot for me about your wounded and fragile ego..

Nevertheless you have value as does CF people like you exist and are examples of the depth of damage performed on our community by the ruling class at large observing you attack me instead of those who created the mess you are saddens me but I truly understand..I really do CNu at some level pity you..

CNu reminds me of many petty Black men I have met in my life never having the courage to look me in the eye always hiding behind another person to spit out envious vomit because I have presence and clout..

Tell us CNu who you really are we know you are a coward that hides behind an alias..We know your offspring are not college educated..We know you are a cheerleader for the John Covington's of the world and the Cobbs of the world..We know people like OC and CD humble you yet you still seek their validation and affirmation....tee hee

As a local White Liberal, I'll take up your point #2 -- not sure what side of the dispute you're on, but ...

2A. Shouldn't somebody be calling Obama on signing the NDAA?? It's a terrifying step. (And I have zero confidence in Thrasher's theory that handing more imprisonment-without-crime power to the government will be a non-issue for Black Americans. I don't know a superlative for "naive" but if I did I'd deploy it now.)

2B. Isn't Obama himself kind of a white liberal to some extent? I've been watching, and ... am I crazy here, or is there something to that?

Anybody is free as a french fry to call out a president on any issue. I'm glad they are re: NDAA, though I don't appreciate their fashionably-enraged, hair-on-fire manner of doing it.

But what you have is white progs INCENSED because Black President does not jump when they say jump. All their euphemistic "disappointments" in his policies stem from this -- they must, as he hasn't done much all that different from what was promised 3-4 years ago.

As for him being a kind of white liberal himself, oh that is quite doubtful. I'm guessing you say that because you have been made aware he's so-called "half white". If that's not why you say that, please do correct me.

If your intent was to call him some cliché like oreo, then why not just do that?

But if so, here's my thought: somebody like Obama has to tell you their mother was so-called "white" in the first place. I know this causes no end of identity confusion among those who think of themselves as "white", for if someone who looks like Obama is "white", what does that say for their own supposed "white"-ness.

This sort of thing is only new to nonblacks. We have been dealing with these ideas and contradictions for generations. A big part of me thinks the anxiety created by Obama's so-called "being white" is hilarious.

The NDDA is such a non issue in so many venues in our country it has zero interest in Black venues and other than the usual white lib chatter class of the Internet nobody is looking for the ACLU...

This is yet another cultural blind spot that often intersects with liberals and Black folks of course this happens often but the liberal media is fearful of reporting about the disconnect between liberals and Black folks unless a colored guy insults a white Jewish interest

Or continue his worldwide program of drone-mediated assassination beyond Libya, Somalia, Yemen, and push ever deeper into Nigeria and other African points as yet to be determined under Africom without fear of reproach as a "racist"..,

Because self-evaluative and self-critical behavior is inherently "racist" among the incompetents comprising that phalanx of lawyers, politicians, pundits, activists, and "scholars" who wield the bully pulpit of "blackness" in mainstream America.

You -as a person is a sentient being. You are a Black man who has the luxury of debating our community's future without wiring up a bomb against his enemies as is the case in Nigeria this week. I HAVE NO RESENTMENT of you - the person.

I said that I resented what YOU and my dear friend Mr DeVega are DOING.

Just as the Christian preacher says "hate the SIN and not the SINNER" this is this case as I observe your antics.

It seems that there is a bit of self-satisfaction that comes from "KEEPING YOUR ENEMY ON TRIAL" as you are certain that he is a BASTARD. All the while YOUR FRIENDS that you allow through your front door and then into your master bedroom where your wife & children and your jewels are kept - don't receive much scrutiny as they have given you the "secret password" at the guard gate that you man.

At what point, sir, as we observe the violations of all that matters to you are we forced to make note of YOUR complicit liability in what has transpired?

When it becomes blatantly obvious that the scheme that you are ensconced within becomes FOR THE PURPOSES OF retaining "Conscious Grouping" and not SOLVING PROBLEMS is it not incumbent upon all who care to mitigate the problems to CALL OUT THE SCHEME?

My dear friend Mr DeVega is a wise and articulate man. I have heard him. He merely suffers from ideological bigotry. This is proven NOT because all that he says about his enemy is a lie - IT IS NOT. It is proven because he can't bring himself to bring an indictment against ALL THIEVES AND MOLESTERS with those that he has entrusted into his home being MORE reprehensible than those who are of the character of a 'proven enemy' and thus kept on the outside.

The PROOF of Mr DeVega and Mr Thrasher's integrity and commitment to their cause IS NOT the POPULAR AGREEMENT that they can compel from other Blacks who's taste buds are attuned to the sweetness of "Progressivism". INSTEAD the evidence should be focused upon the ABATEMENT OF THE LOSSES SUFFERED BY BLACK PEOPLE. "Shrinkage" at the hands of the "Insider" who you gave the security code to is just as damning as theft by an outsider as he steals the merchandise off of the truck.

BTW what do you think I stand for???

My dear friend Mr Thrasher. It is not for me to judge "What you stand for". It is ultimately irrelevant.

In the videos that I have seen of you - you were SITTING DOWN. I do not have a mental image of your "standing".

I do recall the interview of the elderly White man from Demby High. He told of how the schools was a "struggle" even when White folks dominated the place. Now that the community has flipped and there is STILL a struggle - the only hint of a problem that I have with you is:

* YOU ALLOW those who look at the condition of the school today and allege that it is as such due to RACISM!!!! * YOU are not as aggressive in your will to "Pull Out The Video Tape" in which the present political administrators campaigned years ago that IF these resources are entrusted into their hands the INTERESTS OF THE COMMUNITY will be served - after taking power away from THE RACISTS.

Sir - if the same results are tendered - we need to look at what DEFENSES YOU have erected so that next time you are not caught up in the "Racism Confidence Game" that lead the present leadership into POWER and which keeps them in power despite the losses as they merely need to say "Dem White Folks on the OUTSIDE don't care NOTHING ABOUT US!!!!"

If only Mr DeVega showed a bit more of a propensity to defend the interests REGARDLESS of who the assailant is.

My dear friend Mr DeVega is a wise and articulate man. I have heard him. He merely suffers from ideological bigotry. This is proven NOT because all that he says about his enemy is a lie - IT IS NOT. It is proven because he can't bring himself to bring an indictment against ALL THIEVES AND MOLESTERS with those that he has entrusted into his home being MORE reprehensible than those who are of the character of a 'proven enemy' and thus kept on the outside.

Feed, I think you're being MUCH too kind here.

To wildly varying extents, these two belong to the polity of THIEVES AND MOLESTERS.

CDV is a modestly successful and compensated cog in that polity, while Thrasher is a hopeless and spent wannabe with his nose pressed up against the window.

INSTEAD the evidence should be focused upon the ABATEMENT OF THE LOSSES SUFFERED BY BLACK PEOPLE. "Shrinkage" at the hands of the "Insider" who you gave the security code to is just as damning as theft by an outsider as he steals the merchandise off of the truck.

That you're not simply dealing with "ideological" differences, but instead with tangible economic interests to which the loyalties of these folks are bound - is clearly evident from the extent to which they shun, redirect, evade, and otherwise look EVERYWHERE other than at the INSIDER 2nd and 3rd line inheritors of the civil rights movement.

Insiders who for the past 40 years, and as part of a funded counterinsurgency against Black Nationalism, have systematically undermined any efforts toward Black communitarian self-sufficiency, and in place of these aims institutionalized a feminized and consensus-seeking practice of racism chasing or broadly put, "ism" chasing.

You're a technology professional. As such, you understand the difficulties inherent to design, implementation, and maintenance of projects, systems, etc..., It takes knowledge, skill, ability, and work. What do professional "racism chasers" with no tangible and/or useful knowledge and skill know of building anything useful or usable by others?

When these Jack and Jill responsible kneegrows took the stage in the late 60's and early 70's, and have been promoted and elevated within the mainstream to center stage - the cognitive infiltration of Black nationalism became a fait accompli. These very same responsible kneegrows have clung to the cultural "microphone" with all the bitchy and ruthless jealousy you'd ever care to witness at a school board meeting - while simultaneously driving every.single.thing to which they've put their clawed mitts into the ground through sheer and unmitigated incompetence, corruption, and mismanagement.

Lol apparently CNu is trying hard to appease CD he did not insert his usual jiggabo term in his last post now he is posting nonsense about drones and Africa and the usual Black folks he resents,..WTF the man will post anything to be a contrarian

Typical responsible kneegrow shenanigans are confined to "contract steering", "nepotism", and systematic but deniable violation of competitive bidding requirements. It's why you find them infesting the ranks of 2nd and 3rd line inheritor "bidnis". Like clockwork, however, responsible kneegrows can be depended upon to go completely off the reservation and bring shame and opprobrium to their class and devastation and ruination to their constituents.

Harry Thomas Jr., a 51-year-old Democrat, was charged earlier in the day in a criminal information following plea discussions between his attorneys and federal prosecutors. That document typically indicates a defendant's intention to plead guilty, and a plea hearing was scheduled for Friday morning in federal court in Washington.

After facing calls for his resignation throughout the day from Mayor Vincent Gray and from several colleagues, Thomas issued a statement through his lawyer Thursday night saying he would step down, effectively immediately. He apologized for what he called "very serious mistakes" and "inadequate and flawed judgment."

"As a Councilmember and throughout my life, I have dedicated myself to serving the residents and the youth of Washington, D.C. In the pursuit of this work, I made some poor decisions and acted in ways I simply should not have," Thomas said in the statement. "I was wrong."

Within the past two weeks, Thomas has encouraged his remaining staff to search for new jobs, according to multiple council employees with knowledge of his actions who spoke on condition of anonymity because they were not authorized to disclose that information.

The money Thomas will admit to stealing had been earmarked for youth sports programs, according to a lawsuit filed last June by the district's attorney general. The criminal information does not detail what Thomas did with the alleged stolen funds.

You need to review my tapes again the white guy was a jewish activist like me who was talkig about when he went to school how it was tough but when Blacks started going to the school it was worse..BTW he is from NYC and is not a DENBY graduate which was a HS in Detroit I taught in..

BTW CD and I share some views but we are not the same fact is CD is similar to you and CNu he does not care for the underclass/jiggaboo's,he also writes under an alias like you CNu and OC etc

Many of my Black progressive peers have always challenged the Black elite but unlike you and CNu I don't demonize them..I think you and CNu have contempt for them because you both are like them Black elites who hide behind a pc and spit out venom..You both resent people like me who is not in the closet but has successful offspring, presence , clout and footprints in the community..

Truth is I think I have you and CNu figured out both of you are frauds and envious Black elites who live in self hate..

Was the past posts your attempt to validate and measure up in here to me..lol,lol,lo

Come On Man is that all you are a IT person who spends time fixated on living Black legends like me..WFT

Who knew...lol,lol,lol

BTW just produce successful offspring and tell your mentor John Covington that people in Detroit will reject him and his shallow educational platforms since he like you allowed for the decay of KC schools..

Let me break this down for you moonshine, so you don't ever get it twisted again.

I refer to the Jack and Jill responsible negro class which for the past 40 years has undermined Black nationalism and done so much harm to Black America as "jiggaboos". That apellation is about as grating to them as anything could be, in consequence of which I take great pleasure in its use.

I AM the product of an underclass and outsider upbringing. On pure merit, and without regard to relationship and with no debts or obligations whatsoever to the responsible negro class where I grew up, where I was educated, or where I currently reside - I have managed to do good work and make good from a rigorously Black partisan perspective.

You both resent people like me who is not in the closet but has successful offspring, presence , clout and footprints in the community.

rotflmbao...,

Thrasher, I have no use for you because you're an idiot who reflexively engages mouth before brain and has nothing of value to offer to the good work that I or anybody else does.

Truth is I think I have you and CNu figured out both of you are frauds and envious Black elites who live in self hate.

Feed is not a fraud and he is not an elite.

While it's taken me too long to come around to the truth of the matter, his analysis of 2nd and 3rd line inheritors is entirely correct and I co-sign pretty much all of what he says about this demographic.

Where we have sharply disagreed is on questions of ideology.

I do not now nor will I ever be seen to promote religiously tinged or socially conservative "values".

I do not believe it sufficient to engage on ideological terms and have assiduously pushed other Black partisan folk to get engaged in project work and institution building - including Bro. Feed.

At the end of the day, he is entirely capable and has demonstrated his merit to my satisfaction, our ideological differences of opinion nothwithstanding.

No, I'm not slinging "oreo." I hate that word. & I'm not saying Obama isn't Black. That would be foolish.

Of course I'm influenced by the press on Obama's mom. If you need to know how my feelings seem to feed into my need to call Obama a white liberal, I feel my tribe has f**ed up, we need to start accepting our own children.

Also, I hear Obama talk on the TV and he reminds me of other liberal leaders who have been white. I know intellectually that some people feel coming across as "white" is an insult, but it's hard for me to relate to that, for a reason that must be obvious.

I think you & I agree that we're all well along in a process of blending together. Fine. Of course I'm anxious and horrified and all that; my very specialness is under attack and so forth. Ok, I can feel that. On the other hand I have a "racial relationship" to GWB too, and while they both may be evil, Obama has in his favor that he's not a freaking embarrassing idiot.

Sounds the idea of Obama as (among other things) a white liberal doesn't resonate with you.

Can we not just ignore Cnu? Every dang post seems to revolve around him.

Anyways, the post was great. Just read your article on "Open Salon" about the Right's casual racism.

Keep telling the truth.

And my eyes popped out when I read that story about the friends and Cindy's ignorant comment to Kimberley. Kimberley handled the situation very well. I don't have any White friends who would make such a stupid comment, so I must be lucky.

And my husband had to force me to watch GWTW. Will never watch it again. Racist, pro-slavery propaganda.

Sounds the idea of Obama as (among other things) a white liberal doesn't resonate with you.

If it doesn't resonate with me, it's because it's just a ridiculous thing to say. What the bleep does a white liberal sound like?

It makes you sound like you don't know what you're talking about.

I know intellectually that some people feel coming across as "white" is an insult, but it's hard for me to relate to that, for a reason that must be obvious.

No, the reason is not obvious, at all. You're the one apparently branding him a "white liberal" as some kind of slur, since he doesn't measure up to your stereotypes of whatever a troo Black liberal leader is supposed to be.

Please tell me you're not one of those white progs who looked at a very obvious Mr. Tibbs on the campaign trail, yet somehow saw Cotton Comes to Harlem instead.

Finally, do consider we don't really need white acceptance of us as your children, or acceptance of us on any other level -- going by a loose one-drop rule, that would make just about all of us "white", so that's a lot of accepting to do! lol

We've done quite fine without white tolerance -- cripes, whites don't even half-tolerate each other -- for what, 500 years on this continent?

Obama resembles white liberal because he talks nice and then bombs people.

Ah, I see. You're a Disappointed. But this is what we voted for. He said he was going to escalate Afghanistan, and he did, so some of these others should never have come as some kind of shock or surprise - were the Disappointeds too blinded by their own proclivities of patting themselves on the back for Voting for The Black to be paying attention??

BTW, the alternative was a white con who talks mean and jokes about bombing Iran.

Those are the breaks - lesser of two evils; yes, you must "settle", or vote for a candidate you already know is never going to be in office, or just stay home.

And I really hope you do not stay home in 2012, that would be disastrous.

And my husband had to force me to watch GWTW. Will never watch it again. Racist, pro-slavery propaganda.

Yeah, it is. Personally, I find those kinds of movies very useful to understand just how the US is why it is, socially.

When I was more into film, I owned GWTW because of its propaganda power, that ropes in people like Cindy. But yeah, Birth of A Nation, The Jazz Singer, Song of the South, anti-Black musical shorts that have Ethel Waters and Louis Armstrong dressed like slaves and savages, H-wood liberal "passing" anxiety movies like Pinky and Imitation of Life...got 'em all.

I say Obama reminds me of one of my own people and you call that a "slur?"

Well that lets me know something about how you feel. Just don't project it onto me.

Oh, and you've twisted what I said into, what, now I said that all Black people are my "children" or something? What? You're off into the wild blue yonder there. Our children are our children. If I have a child, that child is my child. My child should inherit membership in my tribe. That's all.

Take your fantasies about what I'm saying and enjoy them thoroughly. I'm supposed to feel all guilty because you decide to talk crazy? Forget it.

I remember what the alternative was. I'm glad I voted for Obama over McCain. Obama is obviously better than McCain. I still think he was better than H. Clinton. I'll come out and vote for Obama again in 2012. So will everybody else.

Feel guilty or don't, who cares. Watching someone do the white guilt dance performance doesn't interest me in the least.

Oh, and you've twisted what I said into, what, now I said that all Black people are my "children" or something?

Nope, reread the post.

Put another way, do you think we want inheritance or acceptance into your tribe?

Or another - your acceptance project has nothing to do with us as people, it has to do with using us to (yet again) redefine white identity.

I say Obama reminds me of one of my own people and you call that a "slur?"

"Obama sounds like a white liberal" initially didn't make a lot of sense to me, no, but when it's followed up with self-loathing flaggelation like "Obama resembles white liberal because he talks nice and then bombs people", yes, it sounds like a slur to me.

I say, you need to think through the logic of what you're trying to say before saying it, because your sentiments are all over the map.

I remember what the alternative was. I'm glad I voted for Obama over McCain. Obama is obviously better than McCain. I still think he was better than H. Clinton. I'll come out and vote for Obama again in 2012. So will everybody else.

Well, I hope so. I just hope people vote, period, even if it's a throwaway vote to Nader or the Greens or whomever.

Personally, I would have had no problem voting for either him or Clinton (even with her stupid crap she pulled during the campaign, even with her gaggle of bigoted PUMA minions, who really showed the world the true colors they show us on a regular basis.)

So, I hope you're right about the D vote after the primary season. Even the most disaffected, alienated leftists can't afford a conservative administration. That will really give them something to gripe about.

Even the most disaffected, alienated leftists can't afford a conservative administration. That will really give them something to gripe about.

100% agree.

Not so. You may think your position is consistent, and it well may be internally, but you are not articulating it that way

You're imposing theoretical constructs on what I'm saying, then responding to what comes out of that process. In other words, you're attributing to me a lot of things that I haven't said and don't believe--and you have been insisting that you know better than I do what I mean to say.

I understand the imperative to support Obama in 2012. Afterall, we wouldn't want any of those rabid rightwing Republicans to become president. They'd do a lot worse in the proliferation of war and erosion of civil liberties. But, my question is; can Obama be criticized for anything? Any of his policies? Even though he is our only hope, some of his policies -extension of Bush tax cuts, attacks on the social safety net, NDAA- seem a bit, deleterious to the public good. If we, his staunch supporters, offer criticism -constructive criticism - can't we steer him towards more pro-people policies?

CNuIt is easy pushing your buttons you want so much to be affirmed and embraced which is why you hate the jack and Jill set but you want to be in the jack and Jill setYour legacy and roots are no different mine or most of the WARN posters yet your fragile ego requires you to demonize others to make yourself wholeBottom line is simple I am more accomplished than you are and that raw truths just fucks you up...Now I am moving on to deal with GOP types who are racist and school districts than engaged in the soft bigotry of low expectations and our president who now understands he needs black folks like me with my clout on his team for 2012

I have not observe any Obama robots on WARN just the opposite actually ...Activists like me and others are not cheerleaders nor parrots of the ruling class This is my problem with CF & CNu they view Black progressives as Black nationalists, jiggabo is etc because it fits their contrarian script plus they feel good being the trusted Black oracle type... Lol

But, my question is; can Obama be criticized for anything? Any of his policies? Even though he is our only hope, some of his policies -extension of Bush tax cuts, attacks on the social safety net, NDAA- seem a bit, deleterious to the public good. If we, his staunch supporters, offer criticism -constructive criticism - can't we steer him towards more pro-people policies?

lol,

The status quo ante has already been assured Nomad, through declaration that anyone other than Romney is "unelectable".

The problem is that the status quo is completely unsustainable and will begin collapsing catastrophically this year.

Obama can't do a dayyum thing to stave that off, and, he's been so dishonest here-to-date, exhibited so little people-centric leadership here-to-date, and been so in the pocket of the Wall St. and Brookings elites who auditioned, recruited, scripted, funded, and installed him - that it's almost preferable to have the collapse occur on somebody else's watch.

The CFR has even begun an end-run seeking to lock down any potential alternatives to the collapsing and unsustainable status quo governance hierarchy.

Given the abject failures of the 2nd and 3rd line wrt every.single.entity to which they've set their hand over the past 40 years - what kind of diabolical narrative does this Black face on collapsing/failing empire speak to down the road a piece?

Can a get some of that juice your boy John Covington is spreading to his crew(FYI) Covington is the new HNIC in state of Michigan for education he is from KC like CNu and this is why CNu was seeking assistance regarding poor black kids in Michigan

Oh and as for Tom, you better stop getting out of pocket with these sudden assertions of white privilege (oops, er, I mean opinion.)

You keep going down this path acting like you're free to say anything not in strict compliance with the hyper-vigilant side-eye of doom - next thing you know, they may just have to summon some paddy-roller reinforcements to put you in check (^;

@Cassie. Nice to hear a new voice. These folks have a long running love-hate relationship. I just watch, I do think that there could be a great sitcom here sort of like Perfect Strangers or the Odd Couple.

@Cn. "To wildly varying extents, these two belong to the polity of THIEVES AND MOLESTERS.

CDV is a modestly successful and compensated cog in that polity, while Thrasher is a hopeless and spent wannabe with his nose pressed up against the window."

Can I start a speed metal band called Thieves and Molesters? Please give the rights to that one. Moderately successful? perhaps one day.

Years ago Peter sellers had aMovie where started a war against America and then he got much love ...in America from native Americans to Germans and Mexicans to Japanese all have wage war except black Americans perhaps we should after all the love we gave white America

@ThrasherThat got me to thinking. There are more issues that I disagree with Obama on than there are that I agree. I'm beginning to have second thoughts here. Do I really want to be an Obama supporter? Oh! Damn! That's right. Them ravenous Republicans! Just waiting to get their hands on the newly strengthened powers of the presidency. Lesser of two evils (pardon the expression)strategy and all that.

@Cnu. I wish I made that sort of money. maybe the disconnect here is that you think people who work at universities are paid well. there are maybe 1 percent of folks after 20 years making that sort of money. it isn't very lucrative. you do much better than I do. Trust me.

@Thrasher. Circular? I don't see it. But we are entitled to our opinions. Travel well.

@Cnu. I can send you some reports and links on the subject if you like.

It is the same as elsewhere--destroy tenure, use adjuncts and visitors who will do the same work for 1/3 to 1/4 the cost, leverage a surplus labor force (too many grads in most disciplines) and send the money up to admin, sports coaches and facilities which are designed to "improve student happiness", i.e. that are wasteful.

There are full profs with 20 years who don't make 50 at many schools in this country. There are assistant tt people who only make 25k. This is no gravy train. And that doesn't account for the indebtedness, opportunity costs, and other expenses built into this life path. It ain't for the money.

the single worst offender I have witnessed in 28 years of professional engagement, and the root cause of my epiphany on the road to damascus. The road which has now led me to broadly indict and roundly condemn a system that produced such creature(s)!!!

You're imposing theoretical constructs on what I'm saying, then responding to what comes out of that process. In other words, you're attributing to me a lot of things that I haven't said and don't believe--and you have been insisting that you know better than I do what I mean to say.

Well no, I haven't been insisting on anything, I'm just going on what you've written. You haven't been very clear at all in what you've said. I cannot be blamed for that.

"Obama resembles white liberal because he talks nice and then bombs people" sounds like a self-hating slur - you said it, no one else. Own it, why don't ya.

I been eyebrow deep in Naviance for a few months now getting all my i's dotted and t's crossed so that the ritual of systematic begging for financial aid and scholarships can proceed in earnest.

There are full profs with 20 years who don't make 50 at many schools in this country. There are assistant tt people who only make 25k. This is no gravy train. And that doesn't account for the indebtedness, opportunity costs, and other expenses built into this life path. It ain't for the money.

Then why go along to get along? Break the mold, change the path, rebel against that of which you disapprove...,

5 years ago, when I realized that STEM education and vocational training at the K-12 levels were tore-up from the floor-up, I determined to make best efforts to change what I didn't like - and I'm not an educator - so that's an audacious f'ing agenda.

Now I wouldn't claim to be anywhere near to endgame, but, for an outsider working his way in, I've made stellar progress toward the goals I set for myself, in the process, learning that the whole and entire system is intensely resistant to change and will not permit the evolutionary adjustments required to better serve its constituents.

Bottomline, the K-12 system in America will have to destroyed competitively by a superior offering from the outside. The devastation promises to be legendary.

This is a zero-sum comment . . . I'm not touching that mess up above. Jesu Christus Corpus Dei, who could stand it?

But the original post, and you know it's true, nobody teaches or tells young White's anything about this stuff really, not most of them. What, school? Parents? Most of them are just ignorant, not evil. You expect them to go to the library and figure it out for themselves?

I taught my kids, and they've profited from the knowledge, but Cindy was obviously raised in a vacuum. So she said something that was exceptionally stupid and offensive. Does that make her a racist? Well, maybe we should ask Kimberley, who knows her better than we do.

Kimberley is the hero here, the real story. Her's is an attitude that I have noticed, and that I respect beyond measure. Let's keep the process going forward, I think that's Kimberley's idea. She can accept what really amounts to a rude slight, but she's thinking: let's not throw Cindy in the shitcan right away, she's been a friend, she just doesn't get it yet, maybe I can help her.

Cindy's faux pas was worse than anything that I've said over the years, but still I can say that I've been there, and I needed the help from the Kimberley's of the world, and I really, really appreciated it.

Well, it's the lack of criticism that makes Obamites Stepford Wifish. It's also complicity in his failure to address urgent issues and adopt sane fiscal policies and perhaps peaceful foreign policies. It's up to us, his liberal supporters, to "make him do it". Who else is gonna do it? The blue dogs. Maybe the Republics can guide him in a more humane direction. It's up to us. If we don't push him he'll just continue the same of conservative policies he's practiced this past 3 years. Can you imagine how quickly he would have changed his tune about cutting the soc. safety net if his supporters had erupted in outrage? How quickly he would have changed his mind about NDAA? If his staunchest supporters had cried "Hold on, Brother! You do know where this is leading don't you?" It's up to us to put pressure on Obama. I believe America's at stake.http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=U2Iu54disa0

nobody is sposed to pay attentionnobody is sposed to take measurementsnobody is sposed to make them accountnobody is sposed to wake up.

Stepford Wives is the perfect literary reference:As the story progresses, Joanna becomes convinced that the wives of Stepford are being poisoned or brainwashed into submission by the men's club. She visits the library and reads up on the pasts of Stepford's wives, finding out that some of the women were once feminist activists and very successful professionals, while the leader of the men's club is a former Disney engineer and others are artists and scientists, capable of creating life-like robots. Her friend Bobbie helps her investigate, going so far as to write to the EPA to inquire about possible environmental toxins in Stepford. However, eventually, Bobbie is also transformed into a docile housewife and has no interest in her previous activities.

precisely the results achieved by official and elite counter-insurgency against Black Nationalism...,

If I could pick a president in a vacuum, I'd go off the list, this cocktail could use a good shake. Might give CNu the nod! He's a smart guy, understands statistics, doesn't suffer fools or tolerate bullshit. He'd be his own man (and that's putting it mildly).

From the options though, I'm sticking with President Obama. He's a good man, and he's done a good job.

You know what? That's the kind of pretzel logic that would get a big roar from the crowd at Kos or Atrios. This is a slur.

You catch on quick. For next time, though, you should add "whiny" and self-flagellating to your laundry list.

You say,

I say Obama reminds me of one of my own people

Then you say,

Obama resembles white liberal because he talks nice and then bombs people

Yep, sounds like a classic self-loathing, pity-me complex, to me.

You're the one who belongs with those firebagger left-confederates at Kos; you slur yourself. Yes, I have been pointing it out for several days, now, and will continue to do so, as long as you continue to whine "poor me!!"

You can't trust Obama any more than you can trust the average liberal "leader."

Lol who here said you could?

We tried to tell you Disappointeds this back in 2007-2008, that we Black people have never depended on presidents or politics to forward progressive agendas. But like the 4-page solilquant in Invisible Man, you don't listen, 70 years later, because you're too busy lecturing, pontificating and speaking for us on matters you know ZERO about.

This is how whites ended up getting their asses kicked out of SNCC. 60 years later, white progs have learned nothing from their own history.

Black is no better than white

No one said it was, knock it off with the stupid white liberal navel gazing, self-loathing act. It's old, and worn out.

Tips and Support Are Always Welcome

Who is Chauncey DeVega?

I have been a guest on the BBC, National Public Radio, Ring of Fire Radio, Ed Schultz, Sirius XM's Make it Plain, Joshua Holland's Alternet Radio Hour, the Thom Hartmann radio show, the Burt Cohen show, and Our Common Ground.

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I am a contributing writer for Salon and Alternet.

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