If this is your first visit, be sure to
check out the FAQ by clicking the
link above. You will have to register
before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages,
select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.

White Mages (and other FF types) in D&D

I have a friend online who has specifically requested that I run a campaign for her where she plays a white mage like out of Final Fantasy (she didn't specify which version).

On the crunch side, I was wondering if anyone had any suggestions for classes.
"Healer" is an obvious possibility due to the low combat high healing abilities, but other than that, anything else?

On the flavor side, I'm debating between using a D&D world (Dragonlance, Ferun, Eberron, Greyhawk, or even one I know called Arcanis), stealing one from one of the Final Fantasy games, or making one up, inspired by the theme (Thus, there would have to be air ships, moogles, and a prominent guy named Cid).

If other people in the group want to continue the theme, any class suggestions for Black Mages, and the like?

She's played Faerun before. If I know her, she'll likely want the game to get... mature... in nature. And she has... exotic... tastes.

Re: White Mages (and other FF types) in D&D

White Mage - Healer's probably your best bet. Cloistered Cleric could work in a pinch.

Black Mage - Warmage's probably your best bet. Sorceror could work in a pinch.

Fighter - Fighter's actually a good enough fit. Possibly Knight.

Thief - This one's actually kind of tricky; thieves in the original final fantasy were basically agility-focused fighters over sneak attackers. Still, the rogue class is probably your best bet to grab the flavor and the skills thieves had in other games. Perhaps clap on the elven 'detect secret doors' for a nod to FFV.

Black Belt - This is another tricky one - FF1 Black Belts were glass cannons, not much like the monk class. Picking the D&D monk means you don't have to homebrew, but I really don't think it fits as well... perhaps something to give them added damage at the expense of their AC? (Rage?)

Red Mage - A red mage pretty much is a bard.

Beginnings usually happen over trifles... even if it's a coincidence...

Re: White Mages (and other FF types) in D&D

There's about a billion final fantasy rule sets people have come up with. But that being said
The Cloistered Cleric from Arcana Unearthered (and also here) covers white mages rather nicely.
Wizard covers Black Mage.

Since Final Fantasy itself has it's origins in dungeons and dragons, the classes really shouldn't be that distant.

I don't think you get it.

Spoiler

Show

Rizban: You could be all, "Today's Destruction is brought to you by the color green.... I HATE GREEN!" then fly off mumbling to yourself "Seven... seven bats... mwa ha ha ha..."

sleeping beauty
ate the apple
pumped full of image
sweet as saccharine

Re: White Mages (and other FF types) in D&D

Really, for the wizard types, you'd be better off designing a default "caster" class, and then building a custom spell list for each of them. Run it with a spell-point system (it's just like MP!) and you'll be most of the way there.

Re: White Mages (and other FF types) in D&D

I'd actually worry more about the problem of playing a mature game than the spellcasting system now that you have good examples from which to build up. A mature game requires very mature players, and games of seduction and treason, pacts and loyalty are not for everyone. As Paranoia would say: "Be Alert! Trust No One! Keep Your Laser Handy!"

Re: White Mages (and other FF types) in D&D

I actually just slapped a modified cleric spell list to the Healer (and if they don't already have 1/2 BAB I slapped that on there; I can't exactly remember at this moment). Healers seemed really underpowered to me, so this works out better to me.

The Spellist I'm using:

Spoiler

Show

Overall changes: Few direct damage spells, no Inflicts, basically no Evil spells; pick one of Lawful or Chaotic. Debuffs like Bane are a-ok. No summoning spells.

Warmage with the Eclectic Learning variant's a good idea for the black mage, I'm using the Duskblade as a Red Mage, Bards are the same (with Dancers just being the Harbringer Bard variant), Knights work for, well, the Knights. I actually made a Dragoon class! , and I'm slowly working on making a FF10 setting. I've got a Blitzballer class in the wings (I'm stalled out on the last ability and some scaling of other abilities), and a FF-style monk is also vaguely being worked on. I might scrap it and go more FFT/FF6 style one, but whatever.

For the 'Mature' ideas, there's always the Book of Erotic Fantasy >:V. I actually have it, and where it's not being very silly and somewhat dumb about the, er, the more exotic things and the racial ideals on sex (especially the orcs and stuff) it's not a terrible book. You're not really going to get any better than it, anyway. I hope that's what you meant by Mature. I really hope that's what you meant.

Re: White Mages (and other FF types) in D&D

I've determined that I'll go with healer, or a variation there of to represent an order of "White Mages".

Cloistered Cleric strikes me as a bit to focused on knowledge, and not quite enough on healing / positive energy for an order of white mages.

If I was trying to be reminiscent specifically of a game like FFX, where casters eventually learned both types of casting, and could access everything, I might use the generic spell casting class, but the flexibility to pick any spell doesn't lend it to white, black, red, or blue magic very well.

Oh. That reminds me. The spell theif class probably winds up being a good 'blue mage' class, especially if there is a feat, or variant out there that lets you steal supernatural abilities. Any ideas from the crowd?

As for Dragoons, something from the book of 9 swords, with all the jumping and weird maneuvers should fit just fine.

For red mage I'd probably point one of my players at Bard, or maybe at Mystic Theurge if they want to play up the two sides of magic angle. I'm not familiar with Dungeon Scape.

If I manage to gather any players, I won't force them into any of the FF roles. At this point I think I'd wind up making my own campaign world. None of the existing campaign worlds except Eberron fit the feel of Magi-Punk quite right, and that one's more Magical Pulp than Magi-punk, not epic enough, far to bleak.

As for the mature game angle... paraphrased quotes from her already include "Wiggles the white mage ass" and "I want to adventure into a village where healers are rare. Maybe because the orc hord carries them all off."

For her getting carried off by the orc hord would not necessarily be a bad thing, as long as she remained among the living, but 'useful' captives. *sigh*

I have other players who would definitely fit into a game where we actually give serious treatment to villain motivation and they aren't assured of winning, and betrayal is an option that I could count on or convince to join.

I'm still not sure just what she wants to get out of the campaign, but I am not going to run a D&D campaign where someone plays "to loose", or invite other players to it... and there's no way a white mage could really make it on their own.

Re: White Mages (and other FF types) in D&D

The spell theif class probably winds up being a good 'blue mage' class, especially if there is a feat, or variant out there that lets you steal supernatural abilities. Any ideas from the crowd?

Something like the "Steal Spell Like Ability" class feature they get at level 5? :P

Anyway, I think that Final Fantasy magic works most like Domains or Mantles: either from the domain wizard variant, or obscure splatbook gods, or etc. White Mages get something like Healing and Protection; Black Mages get Fire, Thunder and Ice, Time Mages get Celerity and Trickery, etc, etc.

EDIT: For style points, name each domain after an Esper, and make once per day domain abilities accordingly. Old-School Magicite, yo.

However, it sounds like your friend isn't overly concerned about the mechanics of this game. Maybe you two should just do something freeform- or you could just turn her down if you're not comfortable with that kind of game.

Re: White Mages (and other FF types) in D&D

Yes Fishy.

:P I'm not exactly familiar with Spell Theives okay? I know they exist, they steal magic, and work kind of sort of like rogues in other areas... and that a guy I know has wanted to play one for a while.

Re: White Mages (and other FF types) in D&D

Okay, it looks like I've got my second player, who is playing a spell theif, but I'm looking at the possibility of giving him skirmish instead of sneak attack, since he likes skirmish a lot better. We're dropping the AC bonus, and using the skirmish damage from Scout, at the same rate he would have gained sneak attack.

Any implications of this people can think of?

Also, I just read the class and there is no ability to steal supernatural abilities (rather than spell like abilities). Are there any feats out there that would let one do this?

Re: White Mages (and other FF types) in D&D

Skirmish instead of sneak shouldn't unbalance anything. As for the feat, just make one up. Spellthief level 6 should make a decent prerequisite for the feat. Here's an example of the wording:

A spellthief with this feat can use her steal spell ability to steal supernatural or spell-like abilities. The target of this feat must have hit dice equal to or less than the spellthief's character level.

You might want to drop that last, but I think it helps to prevent cheese (like stealing a great wyrm's breath weapon, for instance).

Re: White Mages (and other FF types) in D&D

k i just have to say BARD IS NOT RED MAGE red mage was a rapier wielder with light armor and a slowly advanced version of both blasting and healing and don't say sublime chord, also in comparison to black mage / white mage they got the 2 biggest things of there spell lists fire,bliz,lightning and cure / double cast but none of the bigger things like flare,holy,life and such so yeah BARD doesn't = redmage nor does duskblade for that matter.... yeah!!!!!

Re: White Mages (and other FF types) in D&D

Originally Posted by raichi

k i just have to say BARD IS NOT RED MAGE red mage was a rapier wielder with light armor and a slowly advanced version of both blasting and healing and don't say sublime chord, also in comparison to black mage / white mage they got the 2 biggest things of there spell lists fire,bliz,lightning and cure / double cast but none of the bigger things like flare,holy,life and such so yeah BARD doesn't = redmage nor does duskblade for that matter.... yeah!!!!!

How about chameleon or even Jaerom Darkwind's red mage prestige class? Would that work?

On the issue of killer or sadistic DMs.

Spoiler

Show

Originally Posted by Col_Pladoh

That sort of person is not worthy of being a Game Master of any sort. The GM is there to entertain and bring enjoyment to the player group, thus being entertained and enjoying himself likewise. Soneone that finds pleasure in making others unhappy is a sad case indeed. That kind of GM should be left alone to lurk in online MMP games to ambush newbies' characters as they enter the setting :]

Re: White Mages (and other FF types) in D&D

Thanks for all the input guys.

We've currently got a Healer (white mage), a spell theif (blue mage), a bard (red mage), a barbarian, and a psion.

The Psion is an Elan (I know, I know) and the bard is based on the anthropomorphic species from the Monster manual. He's somewhere between the cat and the weasel. I basically used the weasel stats, but evened out the mental stats (all +0), took away the weasel's ability to hold on with a bite, and in it's place gave him a +4 racial bonus to hide, which matches the +4 racial bonus to move silently.

I'm using a variation on the training rules from the DMG. People can start training ahead, and you don't necessarily need a trainer... but working without a trainer doubles the training time (but it does save you some money at least). To "train" a skill you either need to use it extensively (like if you were going to add points to search, disable device, and open lock after going through a kobold warren), or specifically spend time training it.

Further, certain feats are "Regional" in that you need to travel to that region to reliably find a trainer. This will lead to sort of a circuit of the campaign world for the healer to find various temples, the barbarian to find training if he wants exotic techniques, and for the psion to find and study new powers and supernatural abilities. The spell theif will probably need to go someplace in particular to find someone to train them in how to steal supernatural abilities (once I finish fleshing out that feat).

We're starting in a city by the sea, and I've determined that it will be hobgoblins that capture the white mage. They're better at strategy, but have less raw physical power. This will let me play smart and still play them at APL without necessarily killing the party off.

There's going to be 4-5 of them at a time facing the challenge of the hobgoblins.

And I've let them either roll for gold (the local currency is the Gilder), or take a default package.

Re: White Mages (and other FF types) in D&D

5 months. Really now. 5 months! Does noone read the rules anymore? Does noone care? Why? Why is our world like this? What is happening to us all?
*curls up into a huddled ball*

[/sarcasm]

FAQ is not RAW!

Avatar by the incredible CrimsonAngel.
Saph:It's surprising how many problems can be solved by one druid spell combined with enough aggression.
I play primarily 3.5 D&D. Most of my advice will be based off of this. If my advice doesn't apply, specify a version in your post.

Re: White Mages (and other FF types) in D&D

Originally Posted by Haborimasu

For Time Mage, what about Chronomancy? Is a chronomancer even available for PCs?

Check out the time domain for clerics in regards to appropriate spells, alternately look at things like haste and time stop. Given the dramatic effect any manipulation of time and thus the combat system has, these spells are already viewed as extremely powerful.

Also, make a new thread. It's not that much to ask.

"It does me no injury for my neighbor to say there are twenty gods or no god. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg."
- Thomas Jefferson

Re: White Mages (and other FF types) in D&D

hang on, does this meas theres no final fantsy d20?, huh, it seems like sutch a natural fit too, they're super popular and have one medium, we have a whole new medium and a bunch of guys who'd homebrew any faults witch can be adapted into "1.5".