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This subforum is both a place to find & discuss independent cryptostorm token resellers, as well as to discuss cryptocoin related topics such as buying bitcoins, altcoins such as darkcoins and dogecoins, "tumbling" coins, theoretical/mathematical topics, etc.

hello crypto-people! i have 3 aleph tokens for sale at 0.666 BTC each. each aleph token gives lifetime access to cryptostorm, and will come with a cryptostorm.is email account. i have not used any of the email accounts and will destroy my copies of the tokens and email account info once sold, but i recommend that if you purchase a token you change the password on the email account immediately for your own peace of mind.
i had intended to use these tokens in dedicated secure gateway devices, but due to "real life" concerns i never got very far with that idea.
if you're interested in purchasing any of the tokens, i can be contacted either here on the forum or on BitMessage at BM-2cWTrBEGjejFfAJn5jB5tcukUYJC1GVmrh
non-BTC payment methods will be considered too.

Cryptostorm supports fully resales of tokens - and aleph tokens, given their lifetime credentials - are particularly a focus of our work to ensure token transactions are smooth, low-friction, and drama-free.

We had to think out the mechanics of this, because previously the assumption was that token resales would be mostly self-managed by market feedback: basically, someone selling "fake" our double-spent tokens would find themselves ostracised when word got out. That's sort of a starting point, but most aleph sales are likely single-point transactions. No feedback there.

Down the road, it'd be quite easy to embed transforms of alephs in a blockchain and use that to validate transfers of the underlying asset. This is a bread-and-butter use of blockchain tech, and if there's enough volume to justify it, we're happy to support it with a bit of 'chain integration (folks could do it themselves, of course, with their own commit procedures in place).

For now, here's what we think makes most sense: when a transaction is agreed to, we're happy to act as escrow agent. Both for transfer of funds - be they coins or other instruments - and for the tokens themselves. But, of course, escrowing tokens doesn't prevent double-spend. And in order to do that, we'll have the original aleph returned to us, and we'll issue a new aleph to the new buyer. That way, the buyer knows she isn't getting an aleph that's been copied out to multiple other people.

The risk of this, of course, is that the seller keeps using her aleph even after "returning" it to us. We discussed this and... we have faith on our community - and in aleph owners in particular - that this won't be an issue for now. If it ever is, we'll shift over to blockchain transfers.

In the meantime, if anyone wants to use our blockchain-embed use-case as a project for collaborative development, we're game for that. It'll be a good extension of our core decentralised model - and we'll surely be using 'chains for other such procedures in the future.

cryptostorm_team wrote:For now, here's what we think makes most sense: when a transaction is agreed to, we're happy to act as escrow agent. Both for transfer of funds - be they coins or other instruments - and for the tokens themselves. But, of course, escrowing tokens doesn't prevent double-spend. And in order to do that, we'll have the original aleph returned to us, and we'll issue a new aleph to the new buyer. That way, the buyer knows she isn't getting an aleph that's been copied out to multiple other people.

that sounds great, i'll gladly have payments and tokens put into escrow for any interested buyers!

cryptostorm_team wrote:The risk of this, of course, is that the seller keeps using her aleph even after "returning" it to us. We discussed this and... we have faith on our community - and in aleph owners in particular - that this won't be an issue for now. If it ever is, we'll shift over to blockchain transfers.

is it not possible to "revoke" the originally issued token if another one is generated to replace it?

This transaction brought up a number of interesting questions, and rather than hitting them in bits and pieces here, we've provided a more substantive reply in a formal policy thread recently posted. We can't "revoke" tokens as we don't have tokens once distributed... but we can excise hashed token values from the Mongo authentication engine, node-by-node. It's not a one-step process, but we've confirmed with our token admin that it's both possible and also doesn't introduce security or operational stability concerns.

is it not possible to "revoke" the originally issued token if another one is generated to replace it?

Revoking a token (or more properly its hash) is entirely possible - it's just a database update. However, the issue is that for a token to be verified *before* payment, the prospective buyer would need either the token or its hash in order to independently verify its authenticity, and of course once they have that they can go ahead and use it without paying for it.

Conversely, once the token is paid for and delivered, the seller still has a copy. Regardless of whether the token has been revoked or not, a prospective (and perhaps unlucky) buyer has no way of knowing if a token has already been sold 47 times.

Basically it's about good faith, but this cannot be helped in systems which work to preserve anonymity. Using a blockchain to support a robust resale process for this virtual merchandise is a good idea and provides a degree of comfort for the buyer.

Operandi wrote:Let's say that I'm interested. But, unfortunately, I don't have any cryptocoins at the moment (as odd as it may sound).

Do you accept payments via PayPal?

It wouldn't be any trouble for cstorm to accept a payment via paypal from you, use that to acquire btc (usually a couple days' turnaround - sometimes quicker if'we've got coins on-hand that haven't been converted back to other currencies), and send the BTC to the seller at that point. (so what's happening is we're buying an aleph out of public circulation to be retired, and concurrently issuing a new aleph to a new holder... and it just happens to be that the sale, and the purchase, are of an exactly equal amount; interesting!)

Indeed, since we'd be the facilitator, we could issue your newly-minted aleph (per policy paper linked to, above) even before we've paid out the seller... and once the seller is paid out, excise the old aleph hashes from mongo in due course.

This takes all the risk out of all the steps, for all the parties. In such cases, we're happy to help since everyone is better off as a result.

There is a few percent transaction fees coming through PayPal and into BTC, in such a situation - not alot, but not zero. And we'd not want to be out-of-pocket on that at the project level, since that impacts the membership at large. So perhaps if the buyer and seller agreed to how to split, say, a 4% fee load on the transaction, then we'd just adjust the numbers to reflect that accordingly. The fee might be lower than that, but it'd be alot more efficient to simply do the transaction and see the fees, than try to figure it out in advance. Seems silly, I know... unless one has worked extensively with PayPal firsthand.

If this is of interest and agreement has been reached between buyer and seller, let us know & we'll set up the payment mechanisms at that point.

Pattern_Juggled wrote:It wouldn't be any trouble for cstorm to accept a payment via paypal from you, use that to acquire btc (usually a couple days' turnaround - sometimes quicker if'we've got coins on-hand that haven't been converted back to other currencies), and send the BTC to the seller at that point. [...]

i have PMed the cryptostorm_admin account with the token information. i'm fine with the "retail" USD price to Operandi being the amount given in the PM, and am happy to have the 100% of the fees from PayPal and BTC conversion taken out of whatever amount i get.

Hi, i am new here. I purchased a one month token few days ago and read almost all the forum, i can say that i love this project and the purpose that it has.
I am a student, and i am a bit paranoid about privacy and so on.. I would like to buy an aleph token for peaceful of mind, at a good price if possible.

@Tealc You have still your token to sell? If yes, can the Cryptostorm staff to be like a middleman/escrow?
I will receive a new token from Cryptostorm to be sure to not use a token that could to be still used in future?