give me all the ponyta and elekid credit. been using them all day everyday lol.

anyway murkrow needs more love. i dont care if its harder to stick on a team than gligar and missy, its just flat out too good to not be used more. 18 attack and 19 speed are just monstorus, and when backed by a life orb nothing is honestly switching in. sure it dies quickly but mixkrow should be running drill peck anyway so thats less of an issue.

im also pretty amazed at the staryu usage. sure it ahs 19 speed, but its either not strong enough or bulky enough. the eviolite set doesnt hit hard and at all to the point where common pokemon like scraggy and misdreavus can set up on it and kill it back, while the lo set, thats probably better, just cant take enough hits to beat shellder

No surprise with Gligar; it dominates every match due to its insane offensive presence, or, more recently, it's jaw dropping defenses. Seriously, this thing takes hits all day and has access to Toxic. This is important in comparison to a Pokemon such as Bronzor, who cannot act as a reliable check to Fighting-types since it lacks that reliable recovery. As the metagame begins to balance itself out (think more defensive Pokemon, less OMG AcroBat kills every Pokemon!!1), we see an unsurprising shift to balance. This explains Staryu's incredibly high usage; this metagame's version of balance is destroyed by entry hazards. For example, Snover needs its help but has good defensive synergy with it as well, Murkrow needs spin support but also a partner to deal with defensive Gligar and Bronzor along with a status absorber, and of course Mienfoo hates having Regenerator hindered by hazards.

Other notables in the top 10 include Bronzor, who still stands as a hard counter to all variants of Gligar and many variants of Murkrow, and Scraggy, who is checked by two threats in the top five. Both of these dropped in rank (but not in % usage) from last month, which seems significant, as the former used to be a crutch for nigh every team against Gligar (despite its lower usage, don't forget the last month's stats basically encompassed two metagames) while the latter was hailed as unstoppable in tandem with Gligar earlier this metagame. Porygon's also on the rise, and for good reason: loling at Murkrow.

The final thing I'd like to note is the huge discrepancy, not between the order of Pokemon themselves, but of percentages between regular and 1200 stats. Look at Gligar; 82% in the 1200 stats but only 42% in the other stats. Misdreavus: 51% in the 1200 stats, but only 39% in the other stats. Croagunk: 48% in the 1200 stats, 27% in the other stats. These differences are real, folks. Do they mean the metagame (or at least, the metagame that everyone with a brain and above 1200 is playing) is centerred on few Pokemon? Actually, I don't believe so; especially in the latter portions of this month, we saw more ingenuity in teambuilding, proven by things like Elekid at 17 in the 1200 stats.

Of course, with so few battles to extrapolate data from, any real analysis is rather difficult.

Moderator

Of course, with so few battles to extrapolate data from, any real analysis is rather difficult.

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Realistically, this. Sorry, but with this little battles you can't say anything definitive about the metagame. All the stats can tell you is the playstyles and teambuilding skills(/lack thereof) of the 4 people that decided to ladder this month....

I originally had a great post written up but then Ray Jay stole the words from my mouth. I agree with pretty much everything he said, but I'd like to focus on one thing that we've discussed recently in the main Little Cup thread: centralization.

It definitely exists. I mean, just look at the top 12 of the 1200 stats!

That is a ridiculous amount of usage for just 12 Pokemon. Gligar was used on 279 out of 339 teams, an 82% usage rate. That means that in over half of all 1200 battles, Gligar was on BOTH teams! And that's not even starting to mention Misdreavus, Staryu, or Croagunk. If Mienfoo was an easy target for the centralization argument, Gligar would be a gigantic bullseye big enough that Staryu could land a Hydro Pump on it.

But Gligar is not broken. Why? Several factors.

When running an offensive set, Gligar absolutely needs to set up in order to do damage. A +0 Gligar sweeps very rarely, or in extreme lategame (where any sweeper would work). While a +2 Flying Gem Acrobatics is incredibly strong, even OHKOing Eviolite Porygon (who can eat practically anything), Gligar needs the +2 and the Gem in order to grab OHKOs on many bulkier Pokemon (such as defensive Gligar, the aforementioned Porygon, and quite a few others. In addition, Gligar has no way of simultaneously boosting its Speed and Attack. Therefore, it often will be forced out by a Choice Scarfer, such as Choice Scarf Snover. Often, prior to this, Gligar will have set up, taken some damage, and used its Gem to KO a Pokemon. The next time Gligar comes in, the opponent will have three important pieces of knowledge: that the Gligar is an offensive variant, that it is weakened, and that it no longer carries a Flying Gem. Not only will the opponent play better with the knowledge of the set, it is also much easier to deal with a Gligar that does not have its Gem. So while AcroGar may have one easy KO most of the time, it really struggles once it is forced out.

When running a defensive set, Gligar really excels. It is, as Ray Jay said, the best defensive Pokemon in the metagame. I personally use defensive Gligar (Stealth Rock/Aerial Ace/Roost/Toxic). It certainly forms a solid defensive core with a conservatively played Staryu, as Staryu forces out Bronzor while Gligar can force out the likes of Croagunk. Against players such as blarajan, the first 10-20 turns are usually constant switching between Gligar and Staryu for me and Bronzor and Croagunk for him. I usually get the better of this exchange, as I have recovery in Roost and Recover while he does not. Being able to Roost off any damage incurred is simply a godsend for Gligar. However, defensive Gligar is not broken either, although much closer to the line than offensive Gligar. Firstly, it has nearly no offensive presence. While it is difficult to OHKO, there are many things that can force it out. Ice- or Water-type attacks from the likes of Snover and Staryu will threaten it enough to switch out, and landing free hits in this metagame is crucial for victory. Even Scraggy can set up, being able to eat an Aerial Ace and get up that ever-so-dangerous Dragon Dance. Secondly, Bronzor still walls it. However, this shouldn't be too much of a problem, as every team should have a good Bronzor switch (such as Staryu).

The main problem I see with Gligar is that the defensive and offensive sets require completely different counters. The offensive sets are covered by 19 and 20 Speeders as well as Choice Scarfers. The defensive sets are covered by Pokemon that can hit it with a STAB super effective attack. Yes, there is some overlap here, but many people misplay and switch, say, Slowpoke, into defensive Gligar, only to be hit with a Toxic (which practically nullifies Slowpoke). Scouting must be done. What do I mean when I say scouting? I mean excellent metagame knowledge. Knowing that when a Croagunk Fake Out hits defensive Gligar it does 7% and when it hits offensive Gligar it does 13% can mean the difference between a clear win and a devastating loss. I like that Little Cup is becoming very skillbased, especially at high levels, and new Little Cup players take note: you have to learn every small detail to be the next Elevator Music. The metagame has progressed to the point where every turn matters. That's what makes a solid metagame.

I haven't covered Baton Pass Gligar. From my experience, as long as you don't let BP Gligar get a Substitute, you should be fine. If it does though, you really need to break that Substitute while Gligar uses Baton Pass. Just play a little more careful, and things should turn out fine. Choice Scarfers that beat offensive Gligar will beat most Pokemon Gligar will Baton Pass too anyways. BP Gligar is completely a legitimate threat though, and players such as prem and Charmander have been very successful with it.

E: Oh right I was supposed to talk about centralization. Oops.

One part of countering popular Pokemon is that you have to prevent them from doing what they want to do. I know that sounds like a really general statement, but it's true. That's why you see people running Shadow Ball and Icy Wind Croagunk--Croagunk is setup bait for Gligar and Misdreavus. That's not saying that Croagunk beats Gligar and Misdreavus; instead, it's that instead of Gligar getting a Swords Dance and sweeping your team, it's Gligar being forced to use Earthquake instead or get killed by Icy Wind. When a few Pokemon are extremely popular, it is perfectly fine to run a ridiculous amount of moves and Pokemon to fully counter them. If you can absolutely hard counter one of your opponent's Pokemon, it's like playing a match that starts 6-5. It gives you such a great advantage. Offensive Gligar struggles to set up due to this reason: so many Pokemon are running seemingly random moves just to beat it. Not only does it make you feel fantastic, it works. That's what anti-metagaming is.

tl;dr: Gligar is not broken, just because you need to run moves and Pokemon to beat the most common Pokemon doesn't mean it's broken, it's anti-metagaming.

So few battles this month ;_;
Even if it is the shortest month in the year it's still kind of sad.
Still hate missy for killing my gastly
I dont really give anything about gligar and his placement.
but murkrow has really grown on me. I really hope murkrow is here to stay

I think Iss' point of over-centralization in the hello goodbye thread is begining to show, especially in the 1200 stats. You either use 6 of the 20 best in the tier or you lose pretty much, it drops almost instantly from 10% usage to 3. 82% usage is actually ridiculous for anything. Pretty much the only reason why the other 7 (not including murkrow) have so high usage is because they check the three/shellsmashers/scraggy well or are one of them themselves.

Not liking the way the metagame is going atm.

@Prem, I've been giving elekid a spin this round too when I could snatch a game and having 20 speed and a legendary movepool makes him actually one of the best (if not the) late game cleaners around so long as their scarfer is down or he's a ridiculously fast revenge killer (but must watch out for priority moves on shellsmashers, read aqua jet on tirtouga). Great mon.

I think Iss' point of over-centralization in the hello goodbye thread is begining to show, especially in the 1200 stats. You either use 6 of the 20 best in the tier or you lose pretty much, it drops almost instantly from 10% usage to 3. 82% usage is actually ridiculous for anything. Pretty much the only reason why the other 7 (not including murkrow) have so high usage is because they check the three/shellsmashers/scraggy well or are one of them themselves.

Not liking the way the metagame is going atm.

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The whole overcentralizing argument doesn't hold water. Sure, Gligar's at 82% usage; this is because it is arguably the best Fighting-type check around and helps fulfill other roles, be it Baton Passer, late game sweeper, scouter, defender, or Stealth Rocker. We should expect that people use good Pokemon because they want to win. Gligar does not overcentralize; look at the stats. If Gligar is overcentralizing, why are their only two counters (Bronzor and the more risky Staryu) and two checks (Misdreavus and Snover) for Gligar in the top 10? If Gligar is overcentralizing, how do Mienfoo AND Croagunk both make it into the top 5?

The whole overcentralizing argument doesn't hold water. Sure, Gligar's at 82% usage; this is because it is arguably the best Fighting-type check around and helps fulfill other roles, be it Baton Passer, late game sweeper, scouter, defender, or Stealth Rocker. We should expect that people use good Pokemon because they want to win. Gligar does not overcentralize; look at the stats. If Gligar is overcentralizing, why are there their only two counters (Bronzor and the more risky Staryu) and two checks (Misdreavus and Snover) for Gligar in the top 10? If Gligar is overcentralizing, how do Mienfoo AND Croagunk both make it into the top 5?

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GP Approved 1/2

I agree with this statement. If people want to win, they should use the best options available to them. If they want to lose, then they can use shittier versions of Gligar. Gligar is quite potentially the most versatile Pokemon in the metagame and thus should have high usage. "Overcentralizing" means that a Pokemon has like a shitload of counters from 2-10 and there are only 4 (not even half) though the reason that Mienfoo and Croagunk are top 5 is because of Scraggy....

The whole overcentralizing argument doesn't hold water. Sure, Gligar's at 82% usage; this is because it is arguably the best Fighting-type check around and helps fulfill other roles, be it Baton Passer, late game sweeper, scouter, defender, or Stealth Rocker. We should expect that people use good Pokemon because they want to win. Gligar does not overcentralize; look at the stats. If Gligar is overcentralizing, why are their only two counters (Bronzor and the more risky Staryu) and two checks (Misdreavus and Snover) for Gligar in the top 10? If Gligar is overcentralizing, how do Mienfoo AND Croagunk both make it into the top 5?

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To clear up what I said in an earlier post, I believe that centralization is occurring, but not overcentralization for the same reasons that Ray Jay stated. Centralization is natural and not necessarily bad; after all, you're going to use the best Pokemon to try and win your matches. Is Gligar usage a little bit too high? Sure. Is that bad for the metagame? No. I'm trying to avoid using the DPP Scizor example here, but it works perfectly fine. People used Scizor (and are using Gligar) because it was/is extremely versatile, strong, and bulky. However, few considered it broken. When something is used that much, you just have to run counters to it, and that's anti-metagaming.

I expect Gligar usage to fall as people realize smart ways to beat it. For example, try out Low Sweep + Hidden Power Ice Mienfoo. It prevents Gligar from switching in, and can even take out offensive versions with Hidden Power Ice. There are many other good Gligar lures and counters out there. Go out and find them! If you can surprise people into losing their Gligar to a seemingly innocuous Pokemon, you'll have a great advantage in each match. Focus Sash Hidden Power Ice Abra? Substitute + Hidden Power Ice on a variety of things? The possibilities are endless. To get better at a metagame, you have to learn how to beat common Pokemon. Little Cup becomes a lot more fun once you learn how to stop those +2 Gligar or +2 Misdreavus sweeps. I'll leave a message here: stop relying on speed ties.

Speed ties are a pretty common occurrence in Little Cup nowadays, with four common 19 Speeders (Gligar, Misdreavus, Murkrow, and Staryu). I've seen a lot of newer players complain that they get swept by +2 Misdreavus every game because "it just always wins those speed ties". This isn't DPP LC anymore. Pokemon actually exist that can take hits, retaliate back, and heal off the damage afterwards. In this metagame, sometimes you just have to let an opposing Pokemon set up and KO a Pokemon of yours just to weaken it. Then you can force it out, and all of a sudden a major threat to your team is nullified. A 100% Scraggy has 6-0ed many a team, a 30% Scraggy has not. Losing a Pokemon is not the end of the game. Remember that even if you're losing Pokemon to your opponent's most threatening Pokemon, whether it be Gligar, Scraggy, or Misdreavus, as long as you do not lose the game to one sweeper, you'll have a chance to do the same back to your opponent.

Teambuilding is more crucial than ever. Playing a match against a competent opponent with just one or two deadweight Pokemon can be a disaster. This is partially why centralization occurs; you need good Pokemon to beat other good Pokemon. That doesn't mean innovation is discouraged, you just have the find the best of the best instead of some average Pokemon who might nab a quick sweep in one out of ten games. I highly suggest that newer players use blarajan's RMT, as it is currently the only good modern team that has been RMTed. As time passes, more good teams will be RMTed, and there will be better and newer options. Just play matches, get a feel for the metagame, make changes as necessary, and one day you will be able to make a solid team on your own.

I think I must be looking at LC the wrong way, or it just changed so suddenly that I'm trying to hold on to the old LC, which I very much enjoyed.

I see now that gligar/misdreavus/murkrow aren't over-centralizing or over-powered (well, maybe a little bit :P ). My favourite aspect of LC before was just imagination and that you were able to use different and unusual pokemon effectively if you learnt how to play them. I just feel that the three severly hamper that. Anyway, as it seems there aren't going to be any rebans any time soon, I should probably just shut up and learn to play a different metagame :P

Sentimentality aside though, I think my main complaint is the importance of speed ties in a very offensively built meta-game. Usually at least 1/3 of a standard offensive team will hit the 19 speed mark meaning that luck has a larger say than usual in games. I appreciate Iss' point that eviolite creates pokemon capable of taking hits, but it just can really ruin offense's day. Just my 2 cents though.