If God created the number "1" then there must have been a time when "1" didn't exist. If "1" didn't exist then there could be no "One" True God. So clearly God did not create everything and is subordinate to mathematics and logic.

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Flesh and blood of a dead star, slain in the apocalypse of supernova, resurrected by four billion years of continuous autocatalytic reaction and crowned with the emergent property of sentience in the dream that the universe might one day understand itself.

(06-01-2018 11:22 PM)jageh Wrote: Hi my name is Jegeh and i am new here....

I want your help about a question which puzzled me yesterday.. One of one religious minded friends asked got me in trouble yesterday while asking the question - can you prove me where did numerical 1 came from? I said it always existed then he said similarly god existed always... I got debunked. Need suggestions of atheists here...

He cannot ask that question without breaking his own logic. Replace 1 with God and God with 1. "I say Iglubobblu is eternal! You cannot prove he isn't! What's my proof? This icecream I ate 4 mins ago had his face on it! Proof!" Is there any difference? Your friend effectively debunked himself. His only claim to God being eternal is a book of fairlytales written by generations of liars. Same with any other gibberish texts. The concept of infinity is one humans cannot comprehend scientifically at this point, and it is to this concept all religions will retreat to untill mankind is no more.

Let me give you a word of advice, if he ever asks such a question again, tell him to stop. Your friendship would corrode quickly if you asked him the Abraham question in return: "Would you kill me if God told you to?".

The best way to keep a friendship with a religious person is to not talk about religion.

If you want to learn how to counter every religious bullshit argument (they're all the same, only differently phrased in an attempt to pretend it's different), watch The Atheist Experience on Youtube. Matt Dillahunty has figuratively tackled every possible argument for God and beaten it to the ground, thousands of times, for almost 20 years. It's worth a watch.

Like most religious "questions" that are put to atheists, it's a trick. It is conflating the physically real with the abstract. It may be that the person asking the question is unaware of this, and so thinks it is a valid question. If so, you would hope that they would understand why it's a malformed question after having this explained. In my experience, they generally don't, and pile more and more absurdity on top rather than analyzing their own question properly.

If they are actually aware it's a trick, then they're no different to a con man. I fully believe many of the people who make a living writing apologetics are exactly this. They may hold genuine religious beliefs, but they know full well when they're writing flawed ideas. Or just maybe, the logical part of their brain gets completely bypassed on certain subjects. I find it hard to imagine having to juggle such absurdities and to believe they make sense somehow.

I have a website here which discusses the issues and terminology surrounding religion and atheism. It's hopefully user friendly to all.

This is a common one, and it's exactly the same question your friend asked, only phrased differently:

Caller says Big Bang didn't happen because nobody was there to see it. He refuses to apply the same logic to the question of did he witness God creating the heavens and the earth. Why? Because he's been programmed since birth to believe that a silly book is infallible, and possibly that if he doesn't accept such a claim, it's burnin' time in hell when he dies.

The end result is always the same. When their nonsense argument is deflated, they retreat to the concept of infinity, close their ears and scream "NANANANANANANANA CAN'T HEAR YOU"

I generally respond to this sort of cute, straight off the web bullshit, with a rejoinder such as "Fuck off! Go sit somewhere else you fucking douche bag! I have better things to do than play your little bullshit word games."
I really think the best progress lies in making being religious more closely related to being a fucking nut.
You don't debate your way to that. You just refuse to accept any substitute.
People are free to believe whatever they want. And others are free to think they are fucking nuts.

(06-01-2018 11:22 PM)jageh Wrote: ...One of one religious minded friends asked got me in trouble yesterday while asking the question - can you prove me where did numerical 1 came from? I said it always existed then he said similarly god existed always... I got debunked. Need suggestions of atheists here...

Nope; the numerical '1' didn't "always" exist. In its current form it was first seen ca. 825CE as recorded by Persian mathematician Muhammad ibn Musa al-Khwarizmi. What's always existed is the "singular".

Your friend didn't score a win either, as his was just a typical Christian-type question framed specifically to muddy the waters.
You can safely ignore it.