The “I Can Leave If You Want” Shit Test

Some shit tests are encountered so often and from so many different women that they deserve their own category. The shit test in the subject heading of this post is one of them.

Imagine you are at a social venue. It is nighttime. You open two girls mingling next to you, making a funny comment about an accessory one of the girls is wearing. She sidles up closer to you and the game is on.

Five minutes into your conversation, after you have delivered a subtle neg about the hokey accent she is trying to conceal, she assumes a feigned look of indignation and huffily says “I can leave if you want”.

You are a pro at this, so you know it is a shit test. No beta you, obsequiously backpedaling is therefore not an option. What do you say?

***

The above is a real life example of a pickup in action. The “I can leave if you want” shit test has a few permutations. You will likely hear it said the following ways:

“I can go back to my friends if you want.”

“I can leave if that’s what you want.”

“Do you want me to return to my friends?”

“Do you want me to leave?”

“I can see I’m not wanted here.”

You get the picture. What’s amazing about this shit test is its omnipresence. It’s almost as if girls are genetically encoded to spit out lines worded exactly like those above when they want to know whether the man who is speaking with them is an alpha male. Act contrite for pushing her to say that, and you will fail, branded a bleating betaboy by her hindbrain. But act like she’s full of shit, or adorably bratty, and she will swoon with rising desire.

Note: You will rarely hear this line spoken by any girl less than a 7 in looks. This is strictly a hot girl phenomenon. Ugly girls have gotten too little positive feedback from men to successfully indulge their universal female need for shit testing. They have learned through the harsh instantaneous feedback of the sexual market to suppress their worst instincts, in other words.

Good answers to the above scenario would be:

– Nothing. Ignore and plow. This is my go-to reaction for any over-the-top shit test from a woman. The trick to ignoring shit tests is practicing your poker face. You absolutely cannot allow a hint of a weak, ingratiating smile to slip through your stone cold face. Your smile after she unloads a brazen shit test will be interpreted as guilt. You may smirk, but do so with dark clouds in your eyes.

– “You seem to think you know what I want. Are you a mindreader?”

– “Yeah, your friends are probably waiting for you.” This is a massive takeaway/disqualification. If she is interested in you, she will sulk off, only to return five minutes later. Do NOT follow her, or re-approach her. If you drop this DQ, you have to be prepared to call her bluff. If she is VERY interested in you, she won’t go anywhere. She’ll just give you that open-mouthed wide-eyed stare that cats sometimes get when they catch a whiff of catnip. Only use this line if her friends are nearby and you can motion to them.

– “Are you always this dramatic?” I like this one because it is a powerful reframe. Most girls will bite on this, and you can relax as she insists she is not a drama queen.

– “Oh, so that’s how it’s going to be.” Ambiguity is just another tool in the alpha male’s arsenal of seduction. Again, this is the kind of cheeky conversational red meat that girls can’t resist probing for elucidation. And once a girl is probing, she begins to see you as a mate prospect.

– “We’ll see.” Girls love a challenge, especially one that challenges them to impress men.

Any of the above shit test busting replies should be preceded with a borderline uncomfortable moment of silence, so that she has a few seconds to spin up her hamster while she’s figuring out how you’re going to respond.

Maxim #105: Pregnant pauses are the player’s best friend.

What you shouldn’t say in reply:

“Do whatever you want. I don’t care.”

A lot of guys think this pose of indifference sounds alpha, but it sounds like what it is: a pose. You really want to avoid anything that she could interpret as spitefulness or hurt feelings. If you have excellent body language, you can pull this off, but most guys I have seen attempt the forced pose of indifference come off poorly.

“I don’t believe you. You don’t want to leave.”

Any kind of reply that insinuates she is attracted to you will activate her anti-slut defense mechanism. Once a girl has turtled into her reputation-preserving shell, the pickup is nigh over. Plus, this sort of reply sounds kind of cheesy. Sexually-tinted replies are as liable to backfire as they are to work if used during the first few minutes of a pickup.

***

Know that when a girl says “I can leave if you want” what she’s really saying is “I’m intrigued by you and it’s making me horny, so I need to tell myself that I can walk off without regret, even if it’s not true. I mean, it’s not like I’m a SLUT or anything!”

So much of how women perceive the world and how they interact with men revolves around negotiating with the specter of sluttiness that looms like a double-edged sword over the core of their feminine natures.

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I’ve done this before. Only once. It wasn’t a shit test. The guy really was being a douche. He gave the “do whatever you want …” line, with poor delivery like you said. It was lame and I left. Avoided his calls after that.

Now most 7+ will not come back with that drink if they come back. But when they have come back, they get reminded to get that drink. 9 out of 10 returnees comply, after been told just once. (6 of 10 have been returnees) (Results much higher with eastern Euros.)

A good reply would be indifference,
if i would say, i can leave if you want, a good reply from him would be. -im sorry i don’t know what you talk about, please explain, in the most calm or even teasing voice, it would be bad if the guy would be reassuring or neglecting or hurt.
ah well, Roissy said it better.

How about just using cave man game as a response. Just smack her ass, throw you arm around her shoulder, say “yup we are leaving”, and drag her out. I think this would only work on big, Alpha guys though, not those of us of normal height.

This is one that never ends. I’ve had girls in my bed, half-naked talking that “I can leave if you want me to” nonsense.

It should be noted that the faster you go from first meet to in bed, the more of these tests you’re going to get. It’s kind of like the “OK, I’ll come back for a drink, but don’t expect anything to happen.” If a girl wants to leave, she’ll just leave. Statements like that are just her fishing for the beta in you.

It’s classic ASD, the more a girl is about to do something “out of character” for her, the more she turns into Donkey Kong reigning barrels down on top of you.

Any time Kupcake wants to talk about the “RELATIONSHIP,” the hamster has entered the cow pasture and wants to throw some serious manure. No doubt.

Kupcake: Are you happy with our relayyyytionship???

1- AAA: (scratching ‘nads) Honey, did you buy that motor oil for me today? I’ll tune up your car in no time….

2 – AAA: Damn! I promised Nails I’d be there for poker tonight! Honey, pick up a six-pack for when I get back, will ya? Gotta go!

3 – AAA: Do I look like a soap opera star? Do I? What are you, practicing your lines on me or something? Puh-leez…

The idea is to get her lovingly frustrated at your manliness (gee, he won’t talk about this stuff…I wonder if any cute girls will be at that poker game? Gee, am I good enough for him? I’d better pick up Chinese AND a six-pack for when he gets back…)

He proposed a “We’ll see” as a response, because women love a challenge. But isn’t there a sexual undercurrent in that response, because wouldn’t the guy be somewhat implying that there is a gravitational field of attraction present that she really doesn’t want to break away from.

But then later in the post he says that “any kind of reply that insinuates that she is attracted to you will activate” her shielding mechanisms.

So isn’t the “We’ll see” response running the risk of activating her shields?

What I immediately thought when reading this, before reading your offered sample good and bad responses, is that I’d say:

“Yes you can. If that’s what you really want.”

The offered responses include variations on this. But I also like “Are you always such a drama queen?” Especially in response to her follow up response to the above, such as “Well you’re being kinda mean/rude to me” or “well I just want to know what you want, since you’re acting indifferent towards me.”

The bottom line is that this shite test is subconsciously seeing if you’ll back down and qualify your neg or aloofness and to try to get you to chase and give her higher value.

Your not directly expressed back story is that no you aren’t trying to shoo her away but you’re also not going to go into chase mode. You’re from abundance and have options.

Is this right, indignant and huffy from a joke? yeah, the beta side of my brain would reel from the thought of insulting a princess (if she was hot) and my alpha-ish side would make me jackassishly challenge her. So, good gouge.
I imagine if you get this shittest instead of the kiss of death “I’ll be right back,” your game is tight enough to proceed and give the fish some slack on the line.

Well that’s two #105 Maxims. As they exist now they are all over the place with numerous same number listings. I have collected them and re-numbered them for immediate usage by Renegade/Roissy readers. To wit:

Renegade’s/Roissy’s Maxims

Maxim #1a: Women desire men of better quality than themselves.

Maxim #2: Women are turned on by displays of male power.

Maxim #3: Whenever an attractive girl tells you she hates assholes, or describes her experience in the past dating assholes and claims to avoid them now, or recites a laundry list of asshole-y things guys do that she disapproves of, you can bet your weight in gold bricks that she wants you to be an asshole to her.

Maxim #4: Never trust a woman who is missing a sense of humor.

Maxim #6: Never. Make. It. Easy. For. A. Woman.

Maxim #7: Your girl will thank you for your steadfast devotion to your belief in yourself.

Maxim #8: Always assume she is a slut. It helps kick the legs out from under the pedestal you will be tempted to put her on, and it is more often than not true.

Maxim #9: The greater the age difference between the older man and the younger woman, the tighter his game will need to be, barring compensatory attributes (money).

Maxim #10: Marriage is a social mechanism designed to exchange sex for indentured servitude.

Maxim #11: Calling a girl out on her lie accomplishes nothing.

Maxim #12: When the love is gone, women can be as cold as if they had never known you.

Maxim #15: Be narcissistic. There is no greater divergence than that between a woman’s stated disapproval of male narcissism and the rapidity with which she jumps into bed with a male narcissist.

Maxim #16: The two fundamental propositions are male choosiness and female abundance. All alpha males have these two mindsets in common. Corollary: Male choosiness and female abundance do not necessarily have to be true for the strategy of behaving as if they are true to be effective at seduction.

Maxim #17: The alpha male thinks and acts more like a woman than a man in matters of seduction. He understands his adversary’s psychology, and uses it to allay her defenses.

Maxim #18: Never talk about getting into a relationship even if she says that’s what she’s looking for.

Maxim #19: Withholding sex is the tactic of a woman who has already lost. It is mutually assured destruction.

Maxim #20: If a woman says the word “sex” in conversation with you or about you, no matter the context, it means she’s thinking about having sex with you.

Maxim #21: Women are more pliable in the company of competing women.

Maxim #22: You have to make marriage an attractive alternative for MEN — not women — if you want the institution to thrive.

Maxim #23: The vagina tingle is the principal moral code to which women subscribe. All other moral considerations are secondary.

Maxim #24: When in doubt, ask yourself “WWJD?” What Would a Jerk Do? Then do that.

Maxim #25: NO girl wants to be thought she isn’t a special little snowflake.

Maxim #26: Never tell a girl how much you make, even if you’re loaded. In case of marriage, keep separate accounts.

Maxim #27: If you want a wife, stay clear of investing much in girls who constantly remind you they like to have “fun, fun, fun” and “get bored easily”.

Maxim #28: The more experience you have with women, the more you’ll know which women have experience with men: It is the inexperienced beta male who is most often in the dark about a woman’s sexual history and liable to be victimized by it.

Maxim #29: Xenophobia is good for diversity.

Maxim #30: Women will not hold it against you for trying to get into their panties on the first night. In fact, they will respect you more for your boldness and willingness to follow your manly desires.

Maxim #31: If you plan on cheating and subsequently get caught, act like a total dick who did nothing wrong. Your girlfriend will then wonder if it’s something she did.

Maxim #32: Commanding women to do your bidding will give you a bigger beta margin of error when needed.

Maxim #33: Women need to test men for their grace under pressure.

Maxim #34: If she’s hot, why would she bother with online dating?

Maxim #35: Never trust a woman’s advice on how to please women. Her advice is designed for alpha men she already finds attractive and from whom she seeks signals of attainability and commitment.

Maxim #36: A woman’s sex and relationship advice isn’t meant to help men; it’s meant to distract men from what really works to attract women.

Maxim #37: High IQ is no inoculation against beta delusion. If anything, high IQ obstructs clear thinking about women’s nature.

Maxim #38: The longer you are away from seducing new women, the harder it will be to seduce one when you want.

Maxim #39: The worst thing to happen to women in America was women’s suffrage.

Maxim #40: Men are becoming ever bigger betas in their dealings with women. Men are losing the leverage to shape and push women’s child-like and selfishly amoral political opinions in logical, just and long-term oriented directions.

Maxim #41: The definition of Inner Game: Hit on every woman who excites you. Make life uncomfortable for them, not yourself.

Maxim # 42: When a girl signals that she doesn’t enjoy blowjobs or sex, do not spend one second more with her. Your libido is too important to gamble on such a girl.

Maxim #43: In their sexual primes women’s attraction for assholes is at its strongest. You can catch a lot of hungry flies with honey, but shit attracts the most well-fed flies.

Maxim #44: If you get sexually rejected, don’t admit it to yourself, and especially don’t admit it to the girl.

Maxim #45: Women will screech louder the closer your words get to damaging or exposing vulnerabilities in their sexual market value.

Maxim #46: Whenever you hear or read the words “gender”, “gendered”, “gendered norm”, “subtle gender bias”, or “increasingly egalitarian, yet there remains…” know that you are dealing with a leftwing moonbat, blank-slate believing fruitcake who cannot deal with the fact that men and women are biologically different from birth.

Maxim #47: Awareness of a woman’s games is a precision-guided weapon in a man’s arsenal of seduction.

Maxim #48: Respect the momentum.

Maxim #49: The rare older woman-younger man pairing is like a lab experiment gone wrong. It violates the natural order of things, and leaves its practitioners emotionally twisted and in a constant mental race to hyper-rationalize their sub-par mate choice.

Maxim #50: Marriage is no escape from the sexual market and the possibility that you may be outbid by a competitor with higher value.

Maxim #51: For most women, five minutes of alpha is worth five years of beta.

Maxim #52: Underneath the veneer of civilized discourse we act in ways that are brazenly self-interested in the short term.

Maxim #53: All kneel before the god of biomechanics, by sword or by surrender.

Maxim #54: When a woman has incentive to lie, she will choose lying over honesty EVERY SINGLE TIME.

Maxim #55: The prime directive of the alpha male is fornication. Anything which hinders the fulfillment of the prime directive is to be vanquished as a foe or excised from the mind as a cancer.

Maxim #55: Run for your Life Shit Tests:
BEWARE the classic gun-to-the-head marriage pressure administered by your typical non-descript, rudderless late 20’s/early 30’s woman.
When a woman pressures you mercilessly to marry her, bullying to the point of threatening a break up – this is the shit test of ALL shit tests. Treat it as such – If you fail this shit test, you are RUINED. FOR. LIFE.

Maxim #56: Waving a roll of benjamins at a woman will not give her tingles. In fact, it will often do the opposite.

Maxim #57: When a girl emphatically insists she is so over you, she’s never been more into you.

Maxim #58: Betas pay, alphas split, super alphas profit.

Maxim #59: A woman’s standards are like a house of cards: kick out one from the bottom and the whole edifice crashes down.

Maxim #60: As women’s bodies age and weaken, their rationalization hamsters grow bigger and stronger. Eventually, the hamster is powerful enough to take control of all higher order consciousness.

Maxim #61: The more expensive or thoughtful the gift you give a girl, the greater the risk that she will subconsciously begin to think she is too good for you.

Corollary to Maxim #61: If you are dating out of your league, or you are dating a young hot babe in her prime, you should do the exact opposite of what everyone will tell you to do — *don’t* buy her expensive gifts. Be particularly wary of advice from women. No woman in the world is capable of thinking clearly or impartially on the matter of “acceptable” levels of male provisioning. Even old, fat hausfrau hogs will expect mountains of jewels in offerings from men.

have very very similar story form this past weekend displaying ASD to the ^10. very fast meet to fast in bed.

fully naked

on morning after 1st date:
kupcake: “um i can’t believe i had sex with you on the first date, I have never done that before!”
me: [umm.. just looked at her oddly]

i knew this was a shit test but couldnt think of the right reply, semi-ignore without a plow through, bad idea. showed indifference without the Stone Cold glare = fail.

night 2:
managed to get 1/2 as much sex as first night.

night 3/4: NADA.
kupcake: “no, im not having sex with you. Yet. I mean right now. later we will.”
me: wtf, wtf, wtf …. “your lucky youve got a guy like me, who wants sex all the time”… her rationalization distracted me, yet again
kupcake: “yeah i guess that is better than the alternative”

fail. Anti-Slut-Defense mechanism shown in full force. im going with “dramatic” next time, with a full entree of stone cold indifference.

i have been closely studying all of the couples i see in and around school, work, on the street and in transit. i live in an urban metropolis on the west coast.

from what i can see when it comes to pure objective looks most couples match up. i rarely see couples that are wildly divergent when it comes to pure aesthetics. at times i will see a man who is better looking than the female and also the reverse but i would say it’s less than 5%. hence, my question is how does this fit into the idea that women are always trading up ?

perhaps women only trade up when it comes to looks in a casual sex setting. obviously there is no way to test this. i guess one could troll night clubs and observe the dynamics of a one night stand to see if the men women are choosing to sleep with are 1 point higher than them in looks and or have serious game.

but when it comes to ltr’s my anthropological observations see that couples match up pretty evenly.

These feelings faded away to uselessness once I realized that I have no obligation to ensure the peace of mind or social ease of any woman I have gamed or am considering gaming. What’s more, with experience came the understanding that “awkward” situations which would make betas cringe and search for the nearest exit are in fact opportunities to increase the attraction voltage, and that they work on almost any woman.

Just came across that passage, so I guess a “go ahead leave” would beat what turns out to be a beat-ish “don’t leave yet, you still amuse me.”

What do you answer to these two shit-tests, said at the same time, by a 6-7:

“Are you happy with me?”

“Are you happy with our relationship?”

Two background things:

1) the real issue isn’t what her SMV is in absolute terms, but rather what she things the relative SMV differences are between you. She’s most likely gonna think about what are your options to get what you want from other hot or hotter girls, compared to her ability to get a relationship with an as hot or hotter guy. So in other words if you’re an alpha 9 or a lesser alpha 8, the answer is gonna be different that if she thinks you’re a 6-7 yourself. The larger the gap in SMV favoring you in her eyes, the more reassurance as opposed to aloof teasing is likely to be called for.

2) This is likely to be something she’ll say a good ways at least into a relationship rather than early on. So this is going to be highly context dependent. You haven’t given us enough to go on. Is she genuinely hurt by something? Is she using this gambit as a way to try to lure you into a sexually exclusive commitment you’re not ready to give, but you otherwise are happy about your relationship with her.

Without more to go on, I’d say if you’ve got a SMV advantage of a point or two over her, I’d say something like:

“Poor baby, are you feeling insecure? But sure, you’re mostly a pretty fun and sexy girl. [Insert light relationship history appropriate neg here.]” Then open up your arms and say “My baby needs a hug.”

I think when it is mentioned that women trade up the notion is not exclusive to looks but more so in terms of finances and status. The guy may be equally attractive or less, but he may be more financially secure or hold higher social title, status or education than the woman and perhaps other men in that gen. pop.

But yeah I too have noticed that most couples are equally yoked in looks if all things are even. They even kind of tend to look like one another. I’ve noticed this especially in married couples.

” ohhhh reeeally?” say it slowly, with a smirk and the eye contact needs to be seductive and filled with doubt..that she REALLY wants to leave.

I do this alllllll the time with my guy! hahhaha!! ….when I am pretending to be mad! lol!! hehehhe!! Is not so much what I say, but my body language. ……. the use of the eyes to the side, head to the side and downwards, maybe add a little hair/bangs tossing ( that’s the advantage of having long hair or bangs hehe!!!);and the ultimate are the lips..pouty with slight undertone of disapproving!!! lol!!hahhaa!! He can never resists that!!!!hee! hee! Here, I’ll try it tonight!! hahha!!

They key to passing a shit test is to eliminate any room for a smartarse, face saving reply.
“Friends are probably waiting for you” can be countered with “Yeah and they’re not too cheap to buy me a drink” or something similar.
“Are you a mindreader ?” invites her to insult your intelligence, you get the picture. My choice would be to call out her pouting and shut her down.

Why don’t we just pretend you already left, thought better of it and came back. Let’s move on.

No you better stay. I’ve already broken too many hearts and don’t want you crying and messing your makeup.

Shit tests are like boxing a spar. Shut down every job and never leave yourself open.

If she asks you something along the lines of “really WHY are you attracted to me?”, then she does need more reassurance with that gap, and start telling her about her strong points. Put weight on the non beauty ones, though do say she’s hot. Things like she’s smart, she’s curious, fun, we mesh well together, etc. But plausible stuff at least, and true stuff better.

Just don’t tell her about her strong points *in general*. From you that should be ultra high level reward material and only rarely doled out, such as when she’s so miserably down on herself that it’s getting in the way of your enjoyment of life.

Instead, tell her about her ‘strong points’ within the context of the things she does and characteristics that she has which you like and/or want to encourage.

“Remember when you got me those new headbands? Not only did you notice I needed them on your own, but I’m a free man, so nobody ever does anything for me. That was special.”

“Yes, when you’re young, curfew is a bitch.”
“Roommates are more trouble than they’re worth, aren’t they?”
“If you stay, someone will have to carry you home.”
“I will never recover. How can you be so cold?”

In Ireland and Britain, you’ll see 3s, 4s and 5s act like this: Probably the most entitled women on earth: 5s think they’re 10s. You need to neg the living daylights out of all women here, even the Rosanne clones (and they are many).

Do you really think that a bone deep beta, fronting a hottie for the first time in a highly stimulating environment is going to have the spare brain capacity to remember any of this shit; or to craft the appopriate, nuanced variant?

Game is a coping mechanism for men without balls. Another “work around” for actually becoming a psychologically dominant male.

The only response to any shit test is a poker faced no response. There, nothing to remember. Whenever I watch you PUAs in the field you look like dancing monkeys with your “witty” comebacks that you quickly spit out with such glee.

Don’t some of you ever get tired of beating off to this crap and actually want to have sex, with a woman, that is?

Calling the bluff is a favorite of mine. They never expect it. Gotta have a good poker face to not burst out laughing when you see their reactions, though.

In a similar vein, I had a weird experience a few months back that doesn’t quite make sense to me.

I was on a business trip and stopped off at a bar my last night out to catch up with the bartender (an old buddy from college) before catching the red-eye home. There’s an early-twenties brunette there who is easily an 8.5. She was a regular and the bartender knew her MO very well (she would scam at least half a dozen drinks for her and her friends from clueless betas on a decent night). Thanks to a warning from him, I was loaded for bear when she sidled up next to me at the bar. I had to be on a plane in 2 hours, so I had nothing to lose (I never mentioned any of this to her, of course).

I strung her along for a little bit, not biting on anything. After 10-15 minutes, she made a comment about how I was, in her words, “dressed so presentably” (I was still wearing a dress shirt and nice jeans from my meeting that afternoon and was definitely overdressed for that bar). In response, I thought I’d try something a bit unexpected, and cocked my head in the direction of her friends saying “I think your friends are waiting for you” (they weren’t, they were busy chatting up a group of guys). Cue the pregnant pause as she stands there, trying to figure out how to respond. Eventually she sorta mumbles something like “I…um…ok” and wanders off. I figured that was the last I’d see of her.

15 minutes later I’m leaving, and she follows me outside. A minute of two of making out later, I pull away and flag down a taxi to take me to the airport. Not a single word was said outside.

I understand the bluff calling and the alpha vibe it gives off, but I can’t figure out why dismissing her pre-emptively would have that result. When I said it, I really didn’t think I’d hear anything more from her that night.

Thanks! I have a question though: wouldn’t that make me seem like a drooling beta or at least plant a seed in her brains that I *can* be a beta and only encourage further shit-testing?

So far she didn’t shit-test me much, and has been quite compliant, everything on my own terms, never flaked once. The reason why I am asking this is that I want to understand why she is in need of such reassurances.

Thanks! I have a question though: wouldn’t that make me seem like a drooling beta or at least plant a seed in her brains that I *can* be a beta and only encourage further shit-testing?

So far she didn’t shit-test me much, and has been quite compliant, everything on my own terms, never flaked once. The reason why I am asking this is that I want to understand why she is in need of such reassurances.

Well dude,this stuff at any decent level isn’t formulaic. It’s about game principles and calibration to her.

You added a lot more information this time. So with this I’d say give a teasing, alpha negging response, designed to favor attraction (hard to get and dominant) over comfort.

This is a good post because it’s a bit more real, and half the dudes in the comments probably need it, because they seem like they’re in a fantasy land where they live vicariously through real alphas.

I mean gosh, unless the lot of you guys are youngish, 6 foot +, chisel jawed, ripped and on $100k+ . . . real life hotties are just gonna walk away and not look back.

I have no doubt we have some true alphas here. Not that many guys have the tact to pull off the sarcastic reply, I wouldn’t chance it. It’s as the host says, you must hold down that beta impulse to spit bitter beta venom. I assume most of the commentors here would have great difficulty.

Sometimes it’s useful to give her a little tease of potential betaness on your part. People can get accustomed to almost anything, and if you’re all alpha all the time, 24/7/365.25, they can end up with incredibly high default standards for you. So don’t fear acting beta; use it to your advantage, by *choice*. You should want to be able to adjust her assessment of you up and down at your will. It helps keep the relationship from getting stale and boring.

Also, making other people happy is one of the purest and best joys we can experience in this life, and you shouldn’t categorically deny yourself that.

The seed is in her brain regardless. It’s almost impossible to root it out. And it’s not just a female thing; human beings test each other all the time, both across and within gender, race, age, and all the other categories.

My advice is to chunk up from this little stuff. Focus on the bigger picture of defining your goals as exactly as you can. And not just in terms of the relationship; define your desired accomplishments, possessions, skills, etc. A good trick for practicing the alpha mindset, BTW, is to not limit yourself to the ‘possible’ in these lists. Forex, I WANT a flying castle with all the fantastic amenities and able to travel FTL, through time, and into alternate dimensions; but for right now, in next life change, I’ll be SETTLING for a used bluewater catamaran. And in the long run, well, we’ll see what the singularity gets me for Xmas.

Once you have that process of defining your goals underway — and it should become a core life habit; take them out and reevaluate them regularly — it’s much easier to examine your behavior for congruency with those goals. And the better you define them and your means of achieving them, the more naturally and automatically your non-conscious mind will present better suggestions and behaviors to achieve them, and the less time and energy you’ll have to expend on conscious direction.

>The reason why I am asking this is that I want to understand why she is in need of such reassurances.

That’s why you should not just define your goals, but keep trying to define them more and more explicitly. Ask yourself *why* you want to understand why she is in need of such reassurances. If the answer to that doesn’t suggest what you should do, keep tracking it back. Keep asking, ‘Well, why do I want that, then?’ Eventually you should get an answer that quickly and easily indicates one or more courses of action.

While we’re talking about shit tests, what do you do if she says “no” to something you ask her to do? Buy you a drink, make you dinner, do your laundry, whatever. There’s a “no way in hell you loser” no, and a defiant, “prove to me you’re worth it” no.

she: Do you want me to go?
he: Oh NO!! I couldn’t bare to be without you! What will I do!

Then bring out your best asshole-grin and go back to your drink…

The key would be to be over-the-top with the feigned neediness.

Then again, that sounds like a lot of work. How about just a nice sigh and walk away…

That’s actually “Agree & Amplify” (to absurdity) which is one of the better methods for dealing with shit tests.

As for Roissy’s comments, when sparring with shit tests I’d replace his attempts at being witty with “one word game” or as brief a reply as possible. His “we’ll see” is a good example of this style of response. The more concise you are the less likely you’ll be to fuck it up.

Snappy comebacks are fine if one comes up and it amuses you, but there is no need to reach for one. The author explains the go to mood for most all shit tests – silence and poker face. You can mix that up with frivolous incongruous replies if you like. It’s not like you feel pressured to reply to stuff she says. A lot of what a girls says you expect to be meaningless buzz – you are not compelled to deal with it.

When a girl repeats and repeats meaningless buzz I don’t want to deal with, sometimes I deal with it, other times I STILL ignore it, and just change the subject.

@D
“I’ll be right back” means you failed.
Maybe the hosts have a snappy little retort but chances are you’ve come across as a spastic boner sporting, beta puppy and she wants to save you feelings while she runs for cover.

There is a concept in NLP about using the word don’t, or not, or any other negating word.

When you use such a word, the human brain first has to process the affirmative action before it processes to not do that action.

For instance, if you tell a child “Don’t touch the cookie jar,” the child will first think about touching the cookie jar, before the brain takes the next step of not touching the cookie jar.

In the same vein, when you tell a girl, “I don’t care,” her brain will first think up what it means for you to care. Then she will process yours words as saying that you don’t care. But at that point, it’s too late. Her subconscious thinks you care.

If you say “The sun does not exist,” everyone will immediately think of the sun. Then they will think of a world without the sun. The human brain cannot make that logical jump directly to a world without the sun.

It is the same with “I don’t care.” Speak in positive terms in the direction that you want to take the conversation.

“I mean gosh, unless the lot of you guys are youngish, 6 foot +, chisel jawed, ripped and on $100k+ . . . real life hotties are just gonna walk away and not look back.”

^^^^^ This pretty much sums it up. I get a lot of attention because I’m over 6 foot, chisel jawed, alas I only make 75K. Here in Toronto, the fembots are all about money unfortunately, I know, I’ve dated 50+ women probably over the years, and been in several long term relationships. That’s just the way it is with entitled fembots these days.

you rang?
All those things only go so far because that’s really a list of gay male desires, women seek preselection. Oh, actually, being really, really good looking does help but I found that looks alone will limit you in the sense that things being easy make you lazy.
D, you are at square one, click through the “game” categories. There was one post where he observed two guys fail by using chit chat game, I am too lazy to find it but a quick google leads to G-man’s take on it:http://www.thegmanifesto.com/2009/03/roissy-on-how-not-to-pick-up-on-girls.html

I love this shit test, because it’s so paper thin and easliy recognizable, just like an ultimatum. I usually deliver my replies in such a way that it’s extremely apparent that I’m joking so that she doesn’t walk off thinking that I’m a prick.

Some of my favorites:

“You COULD… but I don’t think you will” her: “why not?” Me either: “it’s just a feeling I have” or “eh, because I’m the most interesting guy here” followed by a takeaway.

This one’s gold:
“Good, you’re messing up my game with my future ex-wife over there, haha” I then point out the biggest, most undesirable girl in the place and turn back to the girl I’m gaming with a wink and say “she’s Sexy”

There is a concept in NLP about using the word don’t, or not, or any other negating word.

I first learned of this concept at age 12. I was interested in hypnosis, and so studies up from library books and questioned my Dad, who knew a thing or two.

To this day I’m cautious with which words I choose. To manipulate a mind, you first convey an image. Negations don’t negate the image. You must drive around the mind through careful choices of images – leading it. It’s not like programming a computer where if and or statements work.

Instead of addressing her as ‘chic noir’, she would prefer it if you address her by her full, proper title : Chic Noirbuttox.

The ‘buttox’ suffix is important, and she has worked hard and paid thousands of dollars in royalties for the privilege of the ‘buttox’ suffix after her name. She chirps with erotic glee when she hears it. Try it, and see the fun :).

She is too modest to demand this herself, so I am informing you of this preference of hers to be addressed by her full name, Chic Noirbuttox.

The “alpha” information on this website is so brilliant yet so simple that I found myself wondering why such an obvious strategy eluded the ancient philosophers and everyone smart enough to write since then. I can only surmise that the reason a “homeboy” with his boxers showing above his pants is more sexually seductive than an a hapless “beta” with a job and the offer of a meal must have something to do with revolution of the “post-modern” society. The next generation of males will have this knowledge, and who can imagine the results? What will the dating scene look like when all males can mimic the attitude of the “alpha-male”?

“What will the dating scene look like when all males can mimic the attitude of the “alpha-male”?”

Actually, I think it would swing back to favoring the women again. If all betas “act” alpha or at least think they’re alpha and since there’s only so many “hot” women available — the women will still be choosing who they want or the “real” alphas will have an advantage and the betas trying to “act” alpha will still have to settle since there are way more average betas than there are hot women.

I think some of the aspects of the game were indeed recognized and writen by some philosophers and writers, maybe not so explicitely. Certain passages of Nietzsche’s writing come to my mind and also Otto Weininger wrote a book about dynamics of sexual relationships.

I am pretty sure there are more examples of game in literature, also keep in mind that we now have evolutionary psychology, which lay the foundation for many of these ideas.

“I found myself wondering why such an obvious strategy eluded the ancient philosophers and everyone smart enough to write since then.”

Read Eugene Onegin, the most famous work by Russia’s most beloved poet. It’s about nothing but game.

Vronsky, Petruchio, Greek mythology…

The feminists who have educated (sic) you and your cohort have made sure to leave it out or to misteach it, but it’s all over the place in broad daylight if one knows what to look for and takes the time to do so.

This is hilarious. Really is good advice if you’re looking for insecure women, immature women, very young women. most women over 25 and none over 30 respond to this in *any* of the ways presented. I know, I’ve been treated this way about a thousand times and I’ve never once done anything but been nasty to the man, or ignored him in shock and hurt. Never once. I’m a 34yo ex model. I only date normal men not the ones you describe here. Now, I see the *real* reason for your glowing hatred of older women. A bit too convenient, isn’t it?

[Editor: So in other words, what you’re saying is, if men want to pick up haggard cougars who long ago left their best years behind, they shouldn’t run game. Got it.]

This was the response I got after recommending this site to a ‘pro-feminist’ “MAN” whose pathetic and nausea inducing comments on a site we hang out on forced me make you and your posters known to him:

I glanced, nearly threw up, and closed the page. Why on earth would I want to read such tripe? I guess it’s what kneejerks do to get bonus dough-head points. Sorry, nothing there says enlightened person. So, I’m not surprised you find it enthralling.

I just had to share 😉

I am betting that what he is doing is playing the ‘feminist hero’ to his band of merry eunuchs that follow his lame ass around……but the truth is that now having found you, he will turn into mega-alpha and secretly thank me forever, haha.

“But if you leave, how’m I gonna slip you roofies and take advantage of you?”

Said deadpan, pregnant pause, then half-grin.

Why:
– sets a sexual frame
– future projection implying we’ll have sex
– diffuses ASD because I’m pre-emptively taking the blame for us having sex by announcing I’ll be the one taking advantage of her so she doesn’t have to admit she wants sex
– provides call-back diffuser for when she gets LMR in the bedroom later “I can’t believe we’re doing this…” “I know hey, those roofies work wonders ;)”
– slight push-pull because I’m “threatening” her so technically I’m daring her to walk away
– creates social contract in the form of “if you stay you are agreeing to the possibility that we’ll have sex later”
– I don’t care if I offend her/society, I say whatever amuses me
– no way will she have a witty response prepared for this one, no one has said anything like this to her before so her hamster will poop itself
– shows immunity to social pressure because it’s an assholish thing to say but as long as you don’t cave to the social pressure and follow it up with a weak “just kidding”, it will spike her buying temperature

@Wouldn’t You Like to Know
“I’ve done this before. Only once. It wasn’t a shit test.”

Yes it was, and I can prove it. It was a shit test and you were attracted to the guy.

Here’s what you say: “The guy really was being a douche. He gave the “do whatever you want …” line, with poor delivery like you said. It was lame and I left. Avoided his calls after that.”

There’s my proof. See, it’s women like you that lead men to have to manipulate women with game. If the guy was really a douche, then the rational thing for you to do would be to leave without comment (or if you like, say “you’re a douche and I don’t date douchebags”) but instead of leaving, you said “I can leave if I want.” You give him that shit test and then you rate his response. His response was lame (your word) and given with poor delivery (also your word) and THAT’s why you left.

You didn’t leave because he was a douche. You left because he didn’t pass your shit test. If he was a douche who passed the shit test, you would have gone home with him.

I wish I could live in a world were women were honest and rational and conscious of what kind of men they can have happy relationships with. I wish I lived in a world were women eschewed douchebags.

But instead, I live in a world with women like you, who will sit there and talk to a douchebag, and only leave if he doesn’t pass your shit test. So that means that my only choices are to be alone or to be a douchebag with game.

this could be stand-up gold, if delivered á la denis leary or some other such wild-eyed comic genius.

on the other hand, given that this rant is probably dead serious…
…what are you gonna rant against next?
fuck you delicious foods, for containing so many high-GI carb calories?
fuck you northern hemisphere, for having your holiday season when it’s snowy cold shit outside? waaaahhh, i wish it were like uruguay, where hot bitches are %95 naked on the beach for new year’s.

you see where i’m going with this — things are what they are. you can learn to handle them, or you could bitch about them; would you rather be the handler, or the bitch?

Actually, I got a sort of similar shit-test from a bartender (who naturally has betas flinging themselves on her all day, usually much older betas in their 50s and 60s) I was busting on last night – at first I was playfully railing on her lack of professionalism, which got a smile or two out of her.

A little later I went up to her and commented on her ‘ripped’ shirt (shoulder hanging down by her elbow) and asked if she had just watched flashdance on cable the night before or something….

Her response was, “You’re batting a zero here, DJ”.

I simply didn’t respond and went back to my pint. She left at that moment as it was the end of her shift. Obviously not an earth shattering response from me as I gave her no response, merely continued on unfazed. I suppose the meat of it will be the next time I encounter her.

No response actually feels somewhat like a failure in this instance, as there was no opportunity to continue the interaction, but I suppose it highlights the importance of this post and how easy it is to fail the simplest of shit-tests – they really do catch you off guard if you aren’t prepared for them, but every situation is different.

What do you lot think, is no response the best response when caught flat footed? Also, what other response would you use in this situation: I.e. “You’re batting zero”. I have some on the tip of my tongue that I cannot properly formulate…..”I didn’t realise I was at the plate” may have been one….trouble for me is baseball metaphors are almost lost on me as I know so little about the sport….

eric: “But instead, I live in a world with women like you, who will sit there and talk to a douchebag, and only leave if he doesn’t pass your shit test.”

I don’t really see the difference between a woman who is using some metric to choose a mate (lover, one night stand) and a guy who is looking for a mate, lover, one night stand. Both are measuring candidates by their own metric. Would a man consider a female dumptruck as mating material just because she was willing? Unlikely for all but males with the lowest self esteem.

Clearly, if it were impossible to mate a female the species would become extinct, not many of us want that.

Criticizing women because of their evoloutionary mating strategies, which we can see are largely unconscious is a bit like complaining because the sun sets at night. It’s just the way it is.

When you become friends with women (I am in a relationship with 10) so i do become just friends with no ulteriors… you get astonished by how single hot women admit that they are “batshit insane”

“Are you always this dramatic”

is the killer response.. because yes, she’s a total drama queen and she damn well knows it. Her prior relationships ended with stalking, threats, things breaking, calls to the police, screwing two guys concurrently… etc…. her life is DRAMA. Men don’t get dumped by 9’s without drama. Calling her on her flaw nails the achilles heel. WOMEN LOVE MEN who can manage their psychosis, call it, not be scared off by it, control it.

@APL: “I don’t really see the difference between a woman who is using some metric to choose a mate (lover, one night stand) and a guy who is looking for a mate”

My comment was about honesty and false consciousness (Marx. Look it up). The difference between the average male and the female poster I responded to is that a man makes rational choices, and is open and honest about them. A man will say, “I don’t like fat chicks” and that statement is both honest and rational (rational, in this case, means it will lead to his happiness).

The woman I responded to claimed she wasn’t issuing a shit test. She wasn’t even lying. She simply wasn’t conscious of her true motivations. Women say, “I like ____ in a guy” but that isn’t true. They actually like completely different things. Furthermore, those are things that do not make them happy – thus, they aren’t rational. It’d be like if I went around saying that I like fat chicks, but in reality not only to I not like them, what I actually like is women who kick me in the balls and cheat on me.

So that’s the difference. Being conscious of your true motivations, and being motivated by things that will actually lead to your happiness. It’s a pretty big difference.

And the reason for my “fuck you” statement is that now I have to play this stupid game. I don’t want to, but I have to. If women had to kick us in the balls daily in order to date us, then they’d become frustrated and make a post just like mine.

Morpheus: The Matrix is a system, Neo. That system is our enemy. But when you’re inside, you look around, what do you see? Businessmen, teachers, lawyers, carpenters. The very minds of the people we are trying to save. But until we do, these people are still a part of that system and that makes them our enemy. You have to understand, most of these people are not ready to be unplugged. And many of them are so inured, so hopelessly dependent on the system, that they will fight to protect it.

“And the reason for my “fuck you” statement is that now I have to play this stupid game. I don’t want to, but I have to. If women had to kick us in the balls daily in order to date us, then they’d become frustrated and make a post just like mine.”

To be successful with women, you must understand them.
To understand women is to become contemptuous of them.

The good news is that you will really learn to appreciate the (rare) good ones – ideally, not just in hindsight.

The problem with the matrix references is that feminist ego will interpret the system to mean “patriarchy”. I prefer Orwell because it smacks crusading feminists up side the head that THEY are the problem.

And GRUNT, she actually had a blond friend with a huge rack, who was easily the standout chick that entire weekend.

SEAN,

you’ve mistaken the intentions of the homeboy in the hood sporting his boxers. He’s sending out a coded message to the players on the down low that’s he’s available. It started in the prisons and of course made its way into urban America. But it’s all pathology, rampant pathology.

Thanks a million for the replies guys. One thing I can say, this occurred at a pub owned by a good friend of mine. The really, really big problem at this place are the betas who prop up the bar. They throw themselves at the staff and shower them with compliments, it actually makes my skin crawl. ALL of the female staff of course, have massively swelled heads because of it.

The worst is, some of the betas I am friendly with immediately jump down my throat and commence with the massive shaming language, even at the slightest of negs that I deliver.

Many of them do not like me and endlessly bad mouth me for not falling into line with their mangina behaviour.

The female staff also give me alot of attitude but nevertheless seem to like me, as they still talk to me. I think they appreciate in some respects that I do not boy down and kiss their arse.

(I’m Canadian, FYI, so I don’t understand baseball very well.)

Again, thanks guys.

What really derails and messes up my game here the most are the white-knight manginas that are all around me, ready to rush to a fair maiden’s rescue upon witnessing my attitude. The shaming language is far WORSE than anything that I encounter from females. Some of these betas jaws literally drop when they hear some of the things I say, which aren’t really that bad, just your standard negs really.

the West is experiencing rapid demographic decline. Entire societies such as Italy have fallen below replacement levels, and that’s including the numbers of muslims who are replicating like {you can fill in the blank there}.

So clearly something is going on with women in the West, and this entire sporting an attitude even when they’re chubby is getting out of hand, which is reflected in depressed birth rates.

ERIC,

concur, I tried the whole nice guy thing through my 20s, and through a good chunk of my 30s, and where am I?

Still a bachelor, without kids.

I’m like DJ, “batting zero” unless I damn well start pursuing other tactics.

@ Julian “eric is still in the first emotional phase after taking the red pill. it’s cool, its a necessary phase for most and if you have any modicum of inner strength he will grow out of it.”

This is very true, in many ways I am still working my own way out of it. Swallowing the red pill will affect so many aspects of a man’s life. You are forced to re-evaluate everything, including past relationships with women. I often find myself both re-evaluating my own relationships, as well as re-evaluating the my buddies behaviour as well. Some of them I see in a new, positive light……others now sicken me because of their betatude behaviour, and I really do not want to hang with them because their chump AFCness can rub off on you.

It’s no way to live, like a sniveling beta. I think of one friend in particular and, whom I always thought as mega desperate who never, ever followed my advice, and never, ever gets the woman.

The most important adjustment I ever made, and somehow I learned on my own over a decade ago, was to stop chasing low interest women. Once you focus on and recognise the interested ones, and do not lower yourself to waste your time on the chump’s catch, you are ahead of the game.

However, once you catch the interested ones, that too is wrought with pratfalls, isn’t it?

I know how you feel lately D, I found myself in crisis mode after a bad relationship that produced a child out of wedlock, and the ensuing legal bullshyt and treatment from the mother who was a real piece of work…….you can lose your game so very, very easily with the wrong situation/woman.

You know, I’ll never forget that relationship, around 1995…..I was chasing a very good looking but weird vegan type chick, who kicked me to the curb. She told a mutual friend that she liked ‘confident’ guys. Back then, I was confident, but not outwardly so, I was a quiet guy by definition.

Fast forward a year and a half, she and I started crossing paths again…..and I was then in a longterm relationship, and she had just been kicked to the curb by a bad boy. Trampled on.

My attitude towards her was much different then……what did I care? I was in a great relationship with a 21 year old with a great body, getting great sex etc.

I barely acknowledged the vegan who kicked me to the curb almost 2 years prior…..but guess what? Bitch couldn’t stop coming at me, even in front of my woman, who got pretty pissed off at the time I recall. There was definitely a ‘get the f*ck away from my man moment’ if I recall correctly.

And therein was the evidence I needed to change my ways. That was the last time a woman ever dumped me. Since then I have dumped every female that caused me problems, albeit, not necessarily fast enough, but at least the dumpings were all on my terms.

It plays her off against a friend, without needing to specify just why you find the other girl cute. There’s no reason to pre-announce what you find attractive in other women, and keeping your criteria secret is just another thing that’ll keep her guessing.

She’s now wondering why you clearly ‘prefer’ the other one to her, and if they’re friends, you set up a frisson of jealousy and competion. Also, you’re giving her a task to do, and if she actually sends the friend over, you’ve made her comply with your will.

Personally, I’m not a fan of negging, even though I concede that it probably works.

eric: “My comment was about honesty and false consciousness (Marx. Look it up).”

I am not about to wade through Marx’s turgid prose again.

To you point about honesty. There is a case to be made first that honesty is a societal construct, second that it is beta behavior.

The Alpha lion does not expect honesty from its subordinates, in fact he expels them from the pride as soon as they approach adulthood.

Honesty is beta, it is a mechanism to avoid unnecessary conflict among lower order males. No disrespect to anyone who prizes honesty, by the way, it is a societal imprint.

Women don’t exhibit honesty in their mating behavior, Human Alpha males don’t either, there is a higher probability that Alpha males will conduct affairs or in the PUA jargon maintain a harem. Throughout history wealthy alphas have kept one or more mistresses. It is practically de rigueur in for example, France to do so if you can afford to.

High quality females are in demand, factor in that Males encourage female dishonesty about their mating behavior. Can you imagine a woman who says what she really intends, how many milliseconds would it take for her to be branded, a slapper, strumpet or whore? Each depending on her rating 1- 10 of course and the relative success or otherwise of her suitors. A man only wants female honesty when if favors him.

Your appraisal of the true motives of ‘Wouldn’t you like to know’ may be accurate, but it doesn’t matter. Essentially we are animals with society imprinted on top. Take away the imprint and it’s survival of the fittest all over again.

eric: “I have to play this stupid game. I don’t want to, but I have to.”

There is no nirvana, there are no 80 virgins to amuse yourself for eternity. This ‘stupid game’ is not the game women invented, evolution thrust it on us all. Don’t sound bitter, just have fun.

In the UK alone since abortion was legalized in ’67, five million unborn children have been [trying to be non controversial] terminated. God knows what the figures are for the rest of Europe or the USA.

So in the UK that is 2.5 million couples that didn’t have children, and since the first cohort was forty years ago, there is a third generation that doesn’t exist today too.

Having said that, it is not necessary to maintain the population at its current peak, some decline is not that bad a thing.

Without getting into the details of the situation. The guy, in my opinion, was acting like he wanted me to leave A.K.A being a douche. So I came straight out and asked him if he wanted me to take off (I was fine with it either way because he was getting on my nerves). It wasn’t a shit test. I wasn’t rating a response. I just wanted to know his true intentions because he seemed passive aggressive. I wasn’t sure if he throwing hints for me to gtfo or trying to be “cute” or whatever. Some men are beyond jaded. He did need to beg me to stay, but the “do whatever …” was just as good as saying “kick rocks” to me.

This was the response I got after recommending this site to a ‘pro-feminist’ “MAN” whose pathetic and nausea inducing comments on a site we hang out on forced me make you and your posters known to him:

I glanced, nearly threw up, and closed the page. Why on earth would I want to read such tripe? I guess it’s what kneejerks do to get bonus dough-head points. Sorry, nothing there says enlightened person. So, I’m not surprised you find it enthralling.

I just had to share 😉

I am betting that what he is doing is playing the ‘feminist hero’ to his band of merry eunuchs that follow his lame ass around……but the truth is that now having found you, he will turn into mega-alpha and secretly thank me forever, haha.

“There is no nirvana, there are no 80 virgins to amuse yourself for eternity. This ‘stupid game’ is not the game women invented, evolution thrust it on us all. Don’t sound bitter, just have fun.”

Nonsense. Nature and evolution made the woman physically weaker for a reason–because they made her sexually stronger.

Imagine if nature had created women both physically and sexually stronger. How much progress do you think mankind would have made then?

Oh, wait–you don’t have to imagine anything; we live in a world where physical strength matters fuck-all and women can prance around town half-naked terrorizing men with their sex, knowing full-well that even the slightest “transgression” on the man’s part will lose him his job, savings, children, freedom.

“Game” is a result of egalitarianism, idleness, technology, prosperity and the consequent shifting sexual dynamic.

Game has nothing to do with evolution. It is, in fact, queefing in the face of evolution.

Rosenburg: “Nonsense. Nature and evolution made the woman physically weaker for a reason–because they made her sexually stronger. ”

You probably misread my post.

If you mean by ‘sexually stronger’ having higher evolutionary value, then yes. In every species females have higher value than males.

Rosenburg: “we live in a world where physical strength matters fuck-all and women can prance around town half-naked terrorizing men with their sex ”

Physical strength does matter fuck all, men have been inventing machines that do more work than he could by himself since they started building civilization. But it probably doesn’t stop a guy spending time in the gym, nor women appreciating a ‘ripped’ body.

Oddly enough I don’t feel terrorized by women.

I may be wrong but I think eric used the term ‘game’ as in machinations he needs to perform on order to get sex. Agreed there is a difference between jumping through hoops (or game) to obtain female sexual preference and ‘Game’, using techniques to tilt the sexual market in a mans favor.

If a girl gives me this shit test (Depending on whether or not I’m in a good mood) I might playfully feign disappointment when I say “yeah, your friends are probably waiting,” and tell her it was nice meeting her and to take care of herself before I find a party girl to make out with in front of her or point and wave as we walked by. If I’m not in the mood, she gets a long pause and the shoulder turn. Either way I’m picking up my marbles and playing someplace else.

I’m no alpha but you don’t need to be to internalize the ‘Attitude of Abundance’.

Just to clarify my position WYLTK, I do not think you’re lying about women’s motives and reactions. I think you simply aren’t conscious of the truth. Have you ever seen a split brain experiment? The subjects in those experiments are not conscious of having seen an image, yet they can draw it.

They are *not* lying when they say they haven’t seen the image.

The conscious and rational part of our brains is centered in the left frontal lobe. If I ask you what you’re looking for in a guy, it is this part of your brain that will form an english language response – probably something like, “he needs to have a good sense of humor.” That’s true for that part of your brain, but unfortunately, it’s not the part of your brain that actually makes decisions with regard to attraction.

So you’re not lying. You’re just not telling the truth.

The same processes are at work in men’s brains of course. The difference is that we have accepted this dual nature and raised our consciousness of it. Women in general are offended at the suggestion that they harbor instinctive drives; women deny reality. Marx called this false consciousness.

If a girl gives me this shit test (Depending on whether or not I’m in a good mood) I might playfully feign disappointment when I say “yeah, your friends are probably waiting,” and tell her it was nice meeting her and to take care of herself before I find a party girl to make out with in front of her or point and wave as we walked by. If I’m not in the mood, she gets a long pause and the shoulder turn. Either way I’m picking up my marbles and playing someplace else.

This is just stupid. As if there are “party girls” floating around in any social venue you can just up and make out with immediately.

Had this girl living with me for a while (the rent was cheaper divided by two), and one night in the pub she said to me, ‘Do you love me?’ I said, ‘No.’ She started crying and ran off to bitch with her girl friends about what a bastard I was. She came back later that night a changed woman. She became a sex slave who would try any perverted shit I could think up to try and win me. (I got rid of her after a couple of months).

[…] my face flushing while I read as I recognize things about myself that make me feel bad. Like the shit test thing, among many others. I went over to the dating market value test for women page out of vain […]