Taken together, two seemingly unrelated news stories from Norway paint a grim picture of that city’s future.

First, you need to know that Oslo is a sprawling, low-lying city, more of a small-scale Los Angeles than a small-scale New York. Out on its eastern flank is a large valley called Groruddalen which, a few years ago, was a sleepy mishmash of industry and suburban apartment blocks. It is now quickly becoming an urban center all its own. It is said that if current trends continue, Groruddalen will, within a couple of decades, dwarf downtown Oslo itself as a population center.

One not-so-little detail: the reason for Groruddalen’s rapid growth is that it is a destination for new Muslim immigrants. Groruddalen is, in short, a Muslim enclave in the making.

This is a first for Oslo. Other cities in Europe already have Muslim enclaves — neighborhoods that are “no-go” areas for non-Muslims and that Muslim leaders consider autonomous or semi-autonomous territories, subject to sharia law and to the dictates of local imams. In these areas, young men terrorize police officers or firefighters or ambulance workers who dare to cross into their territory. Sharia dress codes are strictly enforced. And cars are set on fire.

Until recently, by the strictest definition, Oslo hasn’t really had a Muslim enclave. Yes, it has neighborhoods — Grønland, Tøyen — that are heavily Muslim. There are parts of these neighborhoods where you wouldn’t want to venture at night, or perhaps even in the day. And even in broad daylight, on a crowded major artery, a gay couple, say, would be well advised not to walk hand-in-hand. But until recently, as I say, Oslo hasn’t had anything you could unequivocally call a “no-go” area.

In the last couple of years, however, it’s been clear that Groruddalen is fast approaching that status. The rise in Muslim population in the valley has been accompanied by a variety of challenging developments, including gang wars and a rise in rapes and other violent crimes. The newspapers increasingly report on donnybrooks involving dozens of Muslim gang members; these often take place at or near the subway station in Ellingsrudåsen, a neighborhood in Groruddalen.

Yet another grim indication that the day of reckoning is near appeared in the July 11 issue of VG. The night before, it was reported, something had happened that is unprecedented in Oslo: eleven cars had been set on fire in Ellingsrudåsen. All of them had been destroyed, and three others had sustained fire damage. The same night, another fire in the same area destroyed a car and Moped.

You’ve read about the large-scale torching of cars in the suburbs of Paris — crimes that the authorities seem powerless to stop, crimes that are the very symbol of the chaos into which the City of Light, among many other civilized metropolises, is sinking? Well, this is how it starts.

This brings us to the other news story I mentioned at the top. Before I get around to it, let me point out that only a few days ago it was reported that police departments in cities across Norway are being strained to the breaking point by the need to deal with people who go out on the town and get bombed on Friday and Saturday nights. “Weekend drunks require all police,” read the headline in Aftenposten. Part of the reason for this is Norwegian drinking habits. Norwegians are a highly disciplined people, but on the weekend, as if to let out all the suppressed emotion, many of them imbibe too much and get extremely rowdy.

But the larger part of the reason for this helplessness on the part of the police is that Norway, although a rich nation, has chosen not to spend much of its wealth on law and order. Talk to Norwegian politicians, professors, and journalists and you’ll soon discover that there’s a lingering sixties-ish view of the police as fascist pigs. Norway wastes millions of kroner ever year on “development aid” that ends up largely in the pockets of corrupt African dictators; it pours millions more into the pockets of non-Western immigrants who have become masters at exploiting the welfare system; for heaven’s sake, the Norwegian government even funds anarchists. It’s not entirely misguided for a Norwegian citizen to feel that his tax money is going less to fight the crime that threatens his home, his self, and his business than to support criminals

Even so, it was a surprise to read on July 11 — the same day that the newspapers reported the car fires — that out of 430 new graduates of the Norwegian Police University College, only fourteen have been offered jobs on a police force anywhere in the country. Fourteen!

Now, you can’t blame this on the economy. Norway is a rich country (which is to say that the government is rich, not the people), and it’s almost the only place in the Western world whose job market hasn’t been decimated by the economic slump of the last few years. No, this situation is the product of state budgetary priorities that are sheer lunacy. A police union spokesman complained that this shamefully low hiring figure represents a total betrayal of promises made by Minister of Justice Knut Storberget. And Roy Vega of document.no notes that Norwegian police strength has declined steadily in recent years to the point where there are now barely over 1.5 officers per 1000 inhabitants. Next door in Sweden, 3500 new positions in the police force have been added in the last five years, bringing the number up to 2.2 (which is approximately the minimum number recommended by the UN).

A few months ago, when I called the Oslo police and asked them to send over a couple of cops for what I considered an important matter, I was told that they wouldn’t be able to dispatch anybody for several days; when I attempted to explain the urgency of the situation, the policewoman on the phone was apologetic but explained that their resources were paper-thin: at the moment, in the whole of Oslo, she volunteered, there was only a single patrol car cruising the streets.

So here’s what we’ve got: a huge part of the national capital that is actively severing itself from the larger community and social order — and a national government that, instead of responding to this aggression with assertive policing, has chosen to steadily cut down on the strength of its police. All I can say is that if you were a government official and you wanted the Islamists to take control of large swaths of the country, this is exactly how you’d go about letting it happen.

Not that I consider Norwegian leaders to be guilty of treason, of consciously aiding and abetting the forces of sharia. No, they’re just unwitting allies — useful idiots. They’re socialist fools who believe that a low-level police presence is the sign of an advanced, peaceful society — and all of whom, not coincidentally, live in parts of Oslo that are a long way from Groruddalen.

139 Comments, 61 Threads

1.
Drbaconboy

This is is ridiculous. Stop muslim immigration now. They don’t care about the host countries beliefs or culture. Westerners bend over backwards trying to be pc about this nonsense. If i’m an ‘islamaphobe’ for thinking or saying this good. At least I recognize it for the cancer it is.

I wish that I’d posted exactly the same thoughts…..you beat me to it, but I don’t care….This needs to be shouted from the rooftops….our Western-world Muslim/Islamist problem needs to be sensibly addressed, not tolerated by any perceived ecumenical do-goodism or “outreach” towards this poisonous, hydra-headed viper.

Our current politically correct approaches are disasterously incorrect, short run and long term, and each attempt at “understanding” is another plank nailed onto our collective cultural scaffold.

At first, for me there used to be hate towards Muslims, as well misunderstandings. After awhile, they appeared intelligent, communal, and polite: Their culture was intriguing. Then they start acting like they own the country and can now use their freedom of speech, provided in the USA, to trash the USA. Side note – they will wash their butt in bathroom sinks after pooping so please: BEWARE!

Here in D.C., there are Indians, Muslims, Somalians, Afghans, et cetera. The preceding ethno types don’t care about America: They’ll say America chooses the countries it helps indicating we’re a-holes, their littering habits are horrible, and most of all: A mosque at Ground Zero: What the f@#?

I’m an American and I love this country. I don’t agree with everything America does, but this is my home.

Interesting. Haven’t been to Norway in ten years; my cousin was Kriminalsjef in Stavanger in the ’90s. When I asked his father, who passed for a conservative there, about any AlQaeda sympathy among Norway’s by then large and growing Pakistani immigrant population shortly after 9/11, he became very defensive and acted offended. When I lived in his house in 1969-70 he was very keen to see what he thought was the miraculous rise of the downtrodden Jew in Israel, to the point that it was the country he most wanted to visit. A productive and successful man, he admired their industry. Moreover, I had never heard of a Pakistani immigrant when I returned to the U.S. in 1970. By the time of my uncle’s death in 2010 he was enamored of Obama, considered the U.S. the greatest threat to world peace, and supported the Palestinians. Beats me what happened over those 40 years, but where the country has gone saddens me deeply. Hope they wake up before it’s too late.

Oh gods and little fishes. As a norwegian citizen living in Oslo, Im continually amazed that mr. Bawer keeps on lying and lying about my city. Groruddalen a no-go zone? Grønland a ghetto where you dare not walk at night, or even by day? Gays fearing living in the same areas as muslims? This is just utter rubbish, made from the stuff of nightmares. I live in one of the immigrant heavy areas myself, and have in the 10 years I have done so been in trouble 3 times: Two times with norwegian aryan drunks and once with a somali teenager high on rohypnol. The odds of getting into trouble are so small as to be nonexistent unless you feel the need to insult people.

This doesnt mean that everything is 100% unproblematic. Far from it, and the dialogue between different groups in our society is ongoing. But Bawers reality vision has nothing to do with reality. The cars torched recently has so far not been connected to any perp at all. Groruddalen is a very diversified area, with no no-go areas at all. While there have been some youthgang fights up there, nobody usually gets seriously hurt, and there is no element of hostility to outsiders. Groups like Hells Angels and the russian Mafya are way more criminal than the pakistani gangstas. But, I guess reality doesnt really matter to mr. Bawer…?

Thanks for the different perspective. Things often look different to an individual on the ground than they do in the media. For example, the US is in the midst of a horrible economic crisis with the media predicting end-of-the-country scenarios, but my personal situation hasn’t changed a bit. I pay a little more for food and a lot more for gas – that’s about it.

The pundits also warn us about homegrown Muslim terrorists and stealthy attempts to implement sharia in the US. In my world, Muslims are just other people who mostly behave normally and mind their own business. The only people rioting are basketball, football, or hockey fans after their team loses (or wins) a game. There is a “problem” with homegrown Muslim terrorists, in that the cops and the FBI catch one now and then. Recently, one was arrested a couple of miles from my home. But he, like most of the would-be jihadis they’ve nabbed, was young and stupid and probably couldn’t launch a real terrorist attack if he possessed written instructions from Osama himself.

So are the problems reported in the media real or not? I guess they are – they just don’t affect everyone the way the pundits assume they do. Does Norway have a problem with Muslims? Is the American economy collapsing? Not so’s you and I would notice…

“….my personal situation hasn’t changed a bit. I pay a little more for food and a lot more for gas – that’s about it.”

I guess you haven’t been out of a job and good for you. But millions of individuals have been out of work, exhausted their benefits, have had to cash in retirement accounts (swallowing a big penalty payment to the government)and don’t see the economy improving anytime soon. In fact, our tax cheating Treasury Secretary recently opined that the current situation could last another five years and the former OMB Director, Orzag, stated the economy is worse that it appears. Just because you are secure in you situation NOW, doesn’t mean it is not occurring and that you will have total immunity from this economic disaster if the economy doesn’t improve. Good luck on your continued “unaffected lifestyle.”

Bugs, by the time you notice it will be too late. Socialists and Islamists work in much the same manner. They are patient and more than willing to lie about their intentions and to use people who are too busy to notice or read or get educated.

Norwegian, I have to point out that there is a logical connection between
“the cars torched recently has so far not been connected to any perp at all”
and the fact that your local law enforcement is stretched paper thin.
Connect the dots….Think, I know it’s hard…

I guess you’re fine, unless you happen to need the police to respond to any emergency you might ever have, if you don’t have a week or a month for them to get back to you….

This is a he-said, he-said situation. Mr. Bawer also lives in Oslo. One of you is not telling the truth–or one of you does not know the truth or is in denial of the truth. I might point out that Mr. Bawer’s entire writing career has been dedicated to the issue of Islamism and its effects, mostly on Europe. Since he is an expert in the field of Islam and its issues, I would be inclined to believe him over someone who goes blithely along with his life in Oslo paying no attention to the negative effects Islam has had on Norway and other European countries.

Well, all I can say is that I invite anyone here to come to Oslo and see for yourselves. Seems to me a lot of the time you folks want the world to fit into your stereotype, and people like Mr. Bawer makes money out of feeding your want. I wonder what you all would think if a Norwegian started sending stories back home about how the republicans are really nazis, and start inventing broad generalizations about republicans based on one or two real loonies in your midst.

Does Mr. Bawer ever mention that he works for a organization funded by the socialist government he hates so much?

Bawer expressed the same concerns in his book While Europe Slept. He is gay and discussed the dangers he encountered in European streets. This book was written in 2006 and was quite detailed. I find him hard to dismiss.

Norwegian, you say, “I wonder what you all would think if a Norwegian started sending stories back home about how the republicans are really nazis, and start inventing broad generalizations about republicans based on one or two real loonies in your midst.”

We have people in DC who already do that almost daily, so no thank you.

Ah, Norwegian, so you have your Arriana Huffington, too? She’s the US’s version of Norway’s Bruce Bauer, apparently. Ms. Huffington immigrated to the US from Greece in search of greener pastures. She worked her way up the republicans ranks, became a national spokeswoman for conservatives causes. Then one day, she walked into a homeless shelter for battered women. She claimed it was a life changing experience. She declared the US morally bankrupt, violent, and she switched over to the far left so fast she had her own left wing media magnet before she tore up her GOP membership card. (Ironically, Ms. Huffington failed to comprehend the nuances of American life—you see, that homeless shelter for battered women was a testament to American generosity, not an indication of it’s violence. Oh, if only Europe cared as much.)
But I’m sure, Mr. Norwegian, that you are quick to believe the host of anti-Americanism that dribble from your daily media all day long….
Cling to it for your life!

Right on! We also have a huge policing problem in Canada: Caledonia’s one, where aboriginals have been allowed to behave like rampaging Muslims—for YEARS. And in Toronto, during the G20 Summit last year, and in Vancouver’s recent riot after the Stanley Cup playoffs, hooligans smashed businesses, looted, and torched police cars—with the police standing down! In Toronto, Tamil protestors were allowed to clog up major, downtown streets for days and, one day, even a major highway.

Our lily livered politicians are the culprits. What PC jack asses they are!

I’d also like to point out that, although Christianity is demonized and allowed to be insulted and marginalized, it is both the foundation of the majority of goods in the West and, these days, still provides all kinds of service to the community at large—unlike virtually all the other religions, which usually just help their own.

So, though Christianity isn’t violent and actually helps a lot of people, it gets kicked around, while the other religions, which, outside of Judaism, the foundation of Christianity, did not contribute to the building of a free West, constantly get a pass, no matter how barbaric the behaviour of their adherents is. (It’s the same with law abiding versus criminal citizens: the criminals have more rights than the rest of us. Our judicial systems are broken too.)

This is lunacy—and the point of no return’s getting closer. If our politicians and judges don’t grow a pair soon, as a student of mine likes to say, “We’re doomed.”

While Canada may some day have a major problem with its Muslim population and admittedly not long ago we experienced the situation of the Toronto 18, but our considerably diverse ethnic population means that, unlike Norway or other European nations, the Muslim Mideast and Asian ethnic groups do not predominate, not by any means. While the poster is correct about Caledonia and the former takeover by the Mohawk people (shameful) and the G8 riot in Toronto and the hockey riot in Vancouver (also shameful), these situations cannot be compared to Muslim terrorist attacks. But the poster is right insofar as there are major incidents and events which highlight a certain ineptness about our ability to police. As to politicians, I don’t think anybody could rightly say that Stephen Harper, our esteemed prime minister, lacks the courage to contain and change such reckless behaviour. I think one can expect tougher policing in the future as a result. Even now, Caledonia (the takeover of an adjacent area of their own “nation’s” land in southern Ontario by Mohawk separatists (to put it kindly), has been checked. It is embarrassing, to say the least, that these Canadians have been allowed to act as though they were a law unto themselves but I disagree with the poster with respect to lack of resolve on the part of our current government.

“Other cities in Europe already have Muslim enclaves — neighborhoods that are “no-go” areas for non-Muslims and that Muslim leaders consider autonomous or semi-autonomous territories, subject to sharia law and to the dictates of local imams. In these areas, young men terrorize police officers or firefighters or ambulance workers who dare to cross into their territory. Sharia dress codes are strictly enforced. And cars are set on fire.”

And the Europeans, especially the French and Germans, don’t seem to understand why they have a problem with the Muslims living in their country. And what’s even worse, all of the European Union countries actually subsidize this sort of behavior. They make no attempt to force these people to assimilate into the nation they are living in and are heading for a major confrontation that could have been avoided.

In short, these countries are headed for a major pogrom or maybe even a civil war. The Europeans have to come to grips with the fact that their colonies no longer exist. Those were the old “safety-valves” years ago where people could run to if they were disinchanted with life in the “mother country.” But those colonies don’t exist anymore and the Europeans have to deal with what they have now and there’s no place to run. So in some countries, especially France, I doubt they will go quietly.

If I were a Muslim living in these countries I really, really, wouldn’t be pushing my luck. This is how pogroms start and if you don’t believe me, just take a look at what happened to the Muslims in Bosnia and Kosovo. It CAN happen in Western Europe. And in the case of Norway, a small police force works both ways. If there are no police to control the Muslims, there are no police to stop the people who could ATTACK Muslims as well. The original term for police officers was “peace officers,” because they were supposed to maintain the peace in a town or a city. If there is nobody around to maintain the peace, then you really could have a major riot breaking out between Muslim and non-Muslim groups. Like I said, the Muslims are really pushing their luck on this.

A “pogrom” historically involves a dominant, supremacist majority with a monopoly on the instruments of violence targeting a minority unable to fight back. The Gentile mobs of Europe or the Arab mobs of the Middle East could target the Jews because the latter were relatively smaller in number and lacked the means to defend themselves, much less fight back.

But that’s not what one encounters at the “bloody borders” between the native populations and the Islamic no-go zones. It is the Muslims who, though still a minority, feel themselves the dominant culture, and they have no qualms about attacking police and fire personnel. The native majority has been unarmed, pacified and basically emasculated. When the authorities sanction any criticism of Muslims or Islam, the majority learns to appease, if not “submit”. They’ve forgotten how to defend that which is theirs. If a pogrom takes place, it is the majority who will be targeted, and they’ve been rendered too confused to properly respond.

Interestingly, Israel also has its “no-go” zones where fire and medical (ambulance) personnel are put at risk, specifically in the considerable Arab enclaves of eastern and northern areas of Jerusalem. Without police accompanying them, these people and the transportation units used are considerably threatened. On occasion, people (non-Muslims) who have made the “wrong turn” have been ambushed, mutilated and horribly lynched when caught in one of these Muslim areas. I suppose it’s to be expected in Israel but to think it occurs in western European nations as well is incredible.

as I said re: London, if they make it a no-go town, cut them off, delete them from the system, and cancel their nationality. Make it illegal to be a citizen of Europe and a citizen of the umma.

If they are receiving welfare, that must stop, they are no longer Europeans and are no longer living in Europe. Anyone not paying their utility bills, they get cut off too.

However, there must be a possibility for immigration from those areas back into the Europe for those who do not wish to live under shariah. Young girls, escaping, must be aided as long as they agree to conform.

Ach was! Make islam equivalent to treason and let’s stop all this rubbish.

Although I would weep for an Islamic Europe because it has given so much to the world and is rich in history I have no sympathy for a socialist, politically correct bunch of wimps who refuse to protect themselves and their culture. Within Europe cultural relativism is the dominant way of thinking about clearly inferior Islamic culture. Speaking out against Muslims can get you fined or even jailed.

It’s hard to believe this is the region of Europe that produced the Vikings. They would be ashamed and disgusted at their cowardly descendants.

Eric wrote, “It’s hard to believe this is the region of Europe that produced the Vikings. They would be ashamed and disgusted at their cowardly descendants.”

I make no excuses for the Europeans, but they experienced World War II first hand, while the Muslims did not. I wish no one’s death or suffering, but should such destruction be visited upon the Muslims in such a deep and pervasive fashion, I think their behavior would be considerably modified, along with some of the beliefs that propagated that suffering. Little skirmishes or small defeats may strengthen their resolve. A debacle would have the opposite effect. Probably they will bring it upon themselves with their constant irritating triumphalsm.

This is what happened when you have stupid liberal progressives and socialists who assume all Muslims are civilized and friendly, and let them live in cities or the suburbs, and look the other way when the same “civilized” and “friendly” Muslims are turning the cities and suburbs into enclave hellholes and shariah havens. These European cities have gone to the dogs thanks to stupid liberal progressives and socialists running the countries.

It has to be remembered that in 1940, Norway fell to the Nazis not because its army was defeated, but because its government was taken down by a coup led by the country’s Finance Minister, Vidkun Quisling, whose last name is still in some dictionaries as a synonym for “traitor” and “backstabber”.

Quisling went on to head a pro-Nazi, extremely brutal Fascist puppet government until Germany collapsed in 1945, after which he and his cohorts were promptly rounded up. A year later, after a scrupulously fair trial (including a reading of the atrocities he and his committed on Norwegians in Hitler’s name), they stood him up against a wall and shot him.

The reason I mention this is to make two points;

1. Norway’s cultural aversion to anything resembling authoritarian government or law enforcement has its roots not just in the Sixties counterculture nonsense, but also in a very real appreciation of what it’s like to live under a tyrannical regime’ installed by deception and kept in power by force. It happened recently enough in Norway’s history that there are still people living who remember it all too clearly, and who also remember that the tyranny was imposed by some of their own leaders.

2. It also shows that as happens all too frequently in advanced cultures, the best interest of the people were then betrayed by the power lust and delusional thinking of their own “intellectual elite”‘. I don’t think there’s much power lust in Norway’s intellectuals today, but they seem no more immune to delusional thinking where Islamism is concerned that our own President is.

Either sort of thinking, when applied to the real world, tends to end in disaster.

Interesting points. The impression I have is that Scandinavia on the whole is very laid back, and having too many cops running around would make people feel threatened, or draw attention to the fact that crime occurs. Or maybe, in the past, they really didn’t need as many police as some other countries do. As I remarked elsewhere, I imagine things are relatively peaceful in a country where everyone’s the same color, practices the same religion (or lack of religion) and shares very similar cultural and social values, if not the same politics. Unlike the US, Norway, as far as I know, never had any sort of long-suffering ethnic underclass that felt the need to air its grievances through mass demonstrations or violence. Now it does, and it’ll be interesting to see how it deals with the situation.

Norway was defeated because it was taken completely by surprise and was unprepared. Norway had not been involved in any war since the end of the Napoleonic wars in 1815. The old-fashioned and complacent Defense Ministry failed to alert more than a handful of Norwegian forces. Those elements of the armed forces which did mobilize fought as long as they could (e.g. the Oskarborg Fortress, whose guns sank the German cruiser BLUCHER).

Quisling had no effect on the 1940 invasion. At the time he was not in the government, and had only a handful of followers. When the Germans occupied Oslo, Quisling (at German direction) announced the formation of a new government – but no one paid any attention whatever to his orders.

A cowboy, a Muslim and a Native American were sitting on a train. “Once we were many, now we are few” said the NA. The muslim laughed and said “once we were few, now we are many, you are in trouble.” The cowboy tipped his hat back, spat between his teeth and said “We just haven’t started playing Cowboys and Muslims yet.”

We ARE already seeing it in North America. Dearborn, Michigan, has a rapidly growing Muslim enclave, and Minneapolis, Minnesota, has its own Somali enclave developing. Chicago, Illinois, also has a developing enclave.

Please note that the creation of these enclaves is intentional. In the early 90s, the Muslim Brotherhood wrote a plan for stealth jihad in America. One of the goals is the development of parallel Muslim societies within the larger society. The end goal is that at some point, the parallel Muslim societies will become so large and so pervasive that they will swallow up the the former larger society.

We need to wake up. If things are allowed to move along the track they’re on now, we are doomed.

This is just another form or jihad – the population bombs. If they can’t defeat a country by force they stealth invade it and then outbreed it.

BTW – Dearborn is gone. All non muzz have been driven out and the law enforcement and city council is now all muzz. Christians are NOT welcome they and get arrested. Only place in America that I’d either carpet bomb or nuke.

Exactly. Why has it taken our government (local, national) so long to recognize this problem (not counting our current potus and all his appeasement crap)? We have no plan. We , the people, need to start demanding our congressmen to deal with this issue (a la Peter King) and cut immigration from these regions now.

Reading all of these agreeing-posts here and in several other sites on the World Wide Web makes me wonder why more pro-active efforts aren’t highly visible and projected against this apparently widely recognized threat of Muslim/Islamist subterfuge/infiltration/indoctrination of our individual countries’ cities and neighborhoods.

Is it a generalized fear of offending and the resultant rejection of a political party at the voting booth or in newspaper “opinion” polls?

What is the difference between a radical Muslim and a moderate Muslim? The radicals are easy to identify. They are the ones who are screaming, “Death to ___ !” And, then proceeding to accomplish that end! The moderates we hear from after the radicals accomplish one of their ends. Then the, “Moderates,” are saying that is not us! From a practical stand point, what is the difference?

I don’t think American Muslims are experiencing the kinds of chronic unemployment and inability to assimilate that European Muslims are. Our Muslims may not be especially visible, culturally or politically, but they’re also not a powerless underclass. They don’t take to the streets (at least in noticeable numbers) over things that cause Muslims in other countries to foam at the mouth and set fire to police cars. They don’t riot about Muhammed cartoons, they don’t riot about the Palestinians, they don’t riot about the US military killing Muslims or occupying Muslim lands. I don’t know what it would take to make them riot. Perhaps years of chronic poverty and discrimination, with a Rodney King type incident to set them off. Haven’t seen any of that so far. Are we just lucky, or are things really different here for Muslims?

I have to disagree somewhat here. Muslims are becomming much more vocal in America. As a life-long Angeleno, I’ve seen the changes here. This was a staunchly pro-Israel city, for the most part, and you never used to hear about very vocal, militant pro-Palestinian protesters. Now, they’re everywhere. At “protests” on the Westside, disrupting our college campuses, in retail stores wearing their scarves and even burkas. Either we’ve had an astronomical rise in Muslim immigration or America’s muslims are becomming more militant in the post 9/11 world.

Muslims don’t have to be an underclass anywhere. It’s their decision not to integrate and it’s their religion and the culture that goes with it that keep them down. I’ve seen numbers from the UK. On average Hindus and Sikhs earn as much as Christians (the Hindus slightly less, the Sikhs slightly more). Only the Muslims are at the bottom. Hindus and Sikhs from India and Pakistan are the same ethnicity as Pakistany and Bangladeshi Mulsims, and their religion and culture is also foreign (non-Christian) in the British context, so the relative failure of the Muslims can’t be explained as a result of British racism, xenophobia or hostility to non-Christian religions. About half the Jews in France immigrated there from North Africa. How come they don’t have high unemployment, don’t live in the slums of the banlieues, don’t torch cars, riot or have a high crime rates? Racism is a human phenomenon that exists everywhere, but to say that today’s Europeans are particularly racist is, I think, a mistake, and it can’t serve as an explnantion for Muslim behavior since there are other ethnic and religious minorities in Europe, none of them behave like the Muslims.

Re the difference from the US there are several factors that should be taken into account:

- The size of the Muslim minority – not in numbers, but as percentage of the population. Nobody knows exactly how many Muslims are in the US – Muslim organziations like to boast with very large numbers, such as 5, 6 or 8 million. More realistic estimates talk about much lower figures that’ll make Muslims 1-2% of the population. In most (though not all) cases the larger their percentage the more vocal and aggressive the Muslim minority becomes. At 1% of the population the Muslims in European countries were also quiet. Wait till you have 4, 5, 8 and 10% to make that comparison.

- The welfare state in Western Europe allows in many cases for Muslims to maintain large families without working too much, so there’s less pressure to assimilate and mingle.

- Western Europe is more liberal than the US, more tolerant of the Muslims’ more aggressive behaviors, and more sympathetic to their various global grievances. Supposedly that’ll make them friendlier to their European conutries and their original populations, but in reality not everything should be tolerated, and when things that shouldn’t be tolerated are it just signals weakness and emboldens them.

I’m just up the road from you, in the nicer half of the metroplex. DFW is an anomaly in both Texas and the US. Like most other immigrants, first and second generation Muslims cluster. We can’t extrapolate from DFW concentrations (among the highest in the country) to the rest of the state, or to the country as a whole. And at present, American Muslims are largely urban and live in about a dozen metropolitan areas.

In terms of numbers, American Muslims amount to just 0.6% of the total population. Those are Pew CF’s numbers, and methodologically they’re certain to be on the _high side_. The real number may be close to 0.4%. Even so, the number is based on the largest and longest-lasting survey of religion in the US. Other numbers are just made up — lies or ignorance. CAIR’s statement that Muslims are 5% of the US populations is off by a factor of 10.

Of the total, 0.3% are Sunni, of various sorts. The other half are mostly Shiite, but very diversely so and with a high proportion of Iranians who really, really dislike mullacracy, more even than rational Americans. Our Sunnis are not all imported, either. A fair number are NOI converts. Not a guarantee of sanity, but the odds are heaps better.

American Muslims are unlike European Muslims in a whole lot of ways. Most importantly: they need to work if they don’t want to starve. And they do, and their kids get educated: so much so that American Muslims are actually better educated and economically more prosperous than the average American. In short, the Sunni 0.3% is not going to grow. In fact, it’s likely to shrink, as largely Catholic and Pentecostal Hispanics make up a larger share of the population.

All this leaves American Muslims with far less time than European Muslims for having babies, or blowing things up.

Judaism remains and will remain the 2nd largest religion in the US. Islam doesn’t even rank 3rd. There are more Buddhists than Muslims. There are also more Hindus than Sunni Muslims. There are currently two Muslims in Congress, and that’s _exactly_ proportional representation. So, if one were really tempted to talk PC, one would have to say: The US is a Judeo-Christian-Buddhist nation. Most Americans will never actually meet a Muslim in their lives, and most states have just a handful of smallish mosques.

This is not to say that American Sunni Muslims don’t have a whole lot of snakes under their hats — but I’d attribute that more to the pernicious influence of the Gulf buyout of the 1970-90s and the malefactors who’ve proclaimed themselves leaders of American Islam — which they’re not, just the loudest and the most obnoxious.

Egyptian brains and Saudi dollars have done some damage. No question. The pathologies of the Arab world are present in Sunni Islam here in the US. Once it sinks in that there is a real problem, my guess is that the immune system is going to start killing bugs. I’m not an optimist about much when it comes to militant Islam — certainly not the Arab world and certainly not European Islam. I am an optimist about American Islam.

I have lots of contact with kids coming out of the Brotherhood environment here in Dallas. While they’re 50% insane and 85% anti-American, and only 1% would ever think about serving in the military, I only rarely meet anyone who resembles the Islamist nasties taking over London, or Nice. The anti-Americanism is rancid, but it’s run of the mill: plain-old leftist International with a touch of Hamas/Hezb Jew-Hatred (similar to the suburbanite death-metal fetish).

Anecdotes mean nothing, but they’re all we got when it comes to this questions, so I offer one:

Last semester, I had this hijabi girl in class. She grew up in stone-cold Brotherhood family, and even has an uncle working high up at ISNA. She went to Muslim schools her whole life, including a secondary school whose Islam instructor just fled the country for funding terror.

I gave the class some selections from the standard, classical biography of Muhammad — on killing Jews. Nothing odd, just your typical, classical anti-semitism. Not realizing what she’d just read, my pious hijabi got all red about the face (what I could see of it) and loudly denounced her venerable professor for assigning anti-Islamic propaganda….

That’s like a member of the Assemblies of God calling down curses on a prof who assigns the Gospel of Mark.

I suppose the irony is that her agitprop elders keep telling the infidels that ‘Islam is peace’ and ‘Muhammad was a pacifist,’ but never stopped to think that their kids might be listening.

In the end, American culture, our vibrant and brash, but brilliant mixture of old-world traditions win. We got Madonna, Willie Nelson, cowboys and Indians, the Cowboys, MIT, Ford Trucks, the NBA, and rap music. They got the wart-faced old hag Qaradawi and the creepy Zawahiri, and the laughably pathetical Sayyid Qutb and Mawdudi are their greatest intellects.

Resistance is futile. Our Muslims will be assimilated.

American culture is just too dynamic and too much fun. It’s also too much work. If you want to be an engineer or a linebacker, or even just one of the cool kids, you’ll not have time to plot the demise of the US.

We’ve already won on the clothing and music front. And the kicking of the behind was worse than what Saddam got. It’s only a matter of time before their minds and hearts are ours as well. And like I said, unlike Europe, in the US you gotta work to eat. And if you want to work at something other than flipping falafel, you gotta learn to play well with others.

Indeed. That is the biggest difference between being Muslim in America and being Muslim in Old Europe. Welfare reform. Here, you gotta work for a living. It’s not nearly so easy to get on the public teat. If you’re manning the 7-11 counter or driving a taxi you just don’t have the time to hang around the mosque studying jihad or tinkering with bombs. Like the 9/11 crew, you have to have a Saudi sugar daddy in order to be a jihadi on the make. And most people in menial jobs would like to aspire to something better.

Although I wonder if the denizens of Hamtranckistan, The Emirate of Dearborn and the Islamic Courts Union Of Minneapolis have found some way to game the system. I do know that Obama is supposed to have quietly gutted welfare reform as we know it. I’d at least call it a good sign that the Somali muzzies (so far) find it necessary to travel to Somalia to wage jihad rather than wage jihad here.

I did read a good article in the WSJ that pithily explains why the Paki immigrants in the UK do so badly compared to the Sikhs and Hindus. Basically, they refuse to associate with infidels. They refuse to go to school with infidels. They refuse to work side-by-side with infidels. Therefore in India, at least, they condemn themselves to lives of righteous poverty as peasant farmers and small shopkeepers. Thereby shutting themselves off from India’s economic progress.

I have been reading of how petro-dollar funded Wahabism International has taken over American mosques. I only wish for a new President to work out some way of cutting the Islamist tentacles and driving out the foreign hate preachers and Islamist “charities” and “leagues” and “associations” and etc.

“Norway’s cultural aversion to anything resembling authoritarian government or law enforcement has its roots not just in the Sixties counterculture nonsense, but also in a very real appreciation of what it’s like to live under a tyrannical regime’ ”

And yet Norway also has Europe’s largest and most openly active SS veterans’ association. Let’s not forget how many supporters Quisling had, nor how many Norwegians volunteered for Hitler’s legions.

One thing I’ve wondered about countries like Norway and Sweden – which American liberals constantly point to as examples of the “success” of social-democratic government. How much of that success has been due to the relative homogeneity of those countries’ populations? Not that they don’t have political conflicts – every country does. But how easy it must be to maintain political harmony in a country in which the majority of people in a country are of the same race, have the same culture, speak the same language, share the same history, practice the same religion (or lack thereof), and share most of the same assumptions about human rights. What happens to a country like that when it’s suddenly invaded by people who share few or even none of these characteristics with the native population? Countries with a liberal tradition have a hard time rejecting other cultures. On the other hand, accommodating those cultures can lead to unacceptable political and social changes.

America and a few other countries around the world have been dealing with this problem and surviving for centuries. It’ll be interesting to see how Northern Europe handles it.

Here’s an interesting story: I was talking to a group of white American girls on a college campus in Illinois. They were all saying how badly they would love to move to Sweden, where the people were tolerant and liberated and free. One of the girls mentioned specifically that it was Sweden’s “liberal marijuana laws” that made her want to move there. I told her and her friends that Sweden has one of the most staunch anti-drug laws in the western world, in addition to some very strict anti-porn laws (Iceland, another Scandinavian nation, as porn laws more restrictive than even some Middle Eastern nations). I was able to show them my proof instantaneously via that American innovation called the smartphone. Now here’s the remarkable part: Suddenly, my pot loving liberal friends became devout defenders of strict drug policies. It was one of those profound moments when you realize the left wing is comprised in large pat of nothing but dingbats who will follow any ideology, so long as it’s perceived as “cool.”

There is a rattlesnake coiled at my feet, but not to worry; if I can imagine it’s not there, I can imagine in won’t strike.

Recently I read that one hundred per cent of rapes (solved cases) in Norway were committed by persons who were non-ethnic Norwegians (read Muslim immigrants).
Sweden, similarly beset and similarly in denial, is now the rape capitol of Europe. Overwhelmingly the same lot, as in Norway, mostly responsible.

In the case of rape in Norway, it comes down to more than the Muslim influx. Traditionally, northern cold weather climes have always had a higher than average rape rate than most other parts of the world. In the United States, Alaska has by far the highest rape rate in the nation, and always has. (Minneapolis, another cold weather city, has the highest rape rate of all US cities, followed by Anchorage.) Canada, stereotyped as a peaceful, crime-free nation, has a rape rate that is more than 2x higher than the entire US average. Iceland has one of the highest rape rates in all of Europe. There’s no secret that all these places also have more than their fare share of heavy drinkers. Cold weather seems to breed heavy drinking, and heavy drinking seems to breed rapists.

It’s not an issue of powerlessness, it’s an issue of will. Norwegians don’t have the will to deal effectively with their problem. Maybe the population doesn’t remember how to project force but their invaders sure do.

Excellent News!Another PC Euro state brain- dead from drugging itself with diversity and welfare state socialism, is menaced by imported Islamic barbarians. No doubt, the bien-pensants of the ruling socialist elite, will welcome the car burnings as a vigorous protest against global warming,while refusing to hire more police;Good:Let them die for their pc delusions.In history,(the written record of evolutionary psychology) the self destructive idiocy of nations is usually fatal.Darwin is watching ;a feckless contemptible Norway (and Europe)are headed for extinction at the hands of homicidal predators who rightly despise their cowardice,and all is right with the world.Get out of Norway Mr.Bawer.

Yes. And you as an American can get a character reference from the highest law enforcement officer in the land. Especially if you are distinquished enough to avoid the, what is it?, 1/16 drop of blood of a “disadvantaged” race. I’m sure he and his boss have a few choice words that you can reflect on while polishing your medals.

The beautiful city of Lyon France, more than half of the city is a “no-go” zone. Safety instructions that a French friend of mine, that lives in Chamonix, gave me was, “… at the train stations, if you see Arabic writing, do not get off.”

All the good sized cities in Europe have surrounding enclaves of Muslims, in Germany, where I lived for 8 years (think-you Uncle Sam) the locals referred to ALL Muslims as “Turks” and no one in my village wanted anything to do with “the Turks.”

Of course, most “said” they were Turkish (EU, open borders, working permits, residency) but they were not Turks, but “other” middle eastern nationalities and ethnic groups. For example, Mohammed Atta, was a resident of Germany when I was stationed over there.

The “regular folks” in countries like France, Germany, Belgium, and the Netherlands ALL had personal tales about “encounters” with adherents of the “religion” of peace (pieces?) a decade before their media was finally covering the stories. They were afraid because their governments “quaked” in front of Islam.

There are areas with few Muslims, where the local populations, and the local governments were not caving in, but those areas are few and separated.
G-d bless the Swiss Confederation!

The local police station in the Norwegian town my Dad lives in closes at noon on Saturday and is closed all day on Sunday. If you need a cop, the nearest one is 1 hour away. There’s also no hospital in the town of over 10,000 persons. The nearest one is 1 hour away. When the town was half the size it is now there was a hospital, full time police force and the train went everywhere. Now, although gazillions in oil money is coming into the coffers, health care is difficult to get (but it is free!), there’s no public safety, and many of the train routes have been cancelled because of budget cuts. The growing problem with the muslims is just another example of the much larger problem of out of control leftism and multiculturalism infecting most of western Europe. Luckily, you can still own guns, but you’ll be in big trouble if you actually use it or even threaten anyone with it.

The problem in Europe is the welfare state: give immigrants welfare and they will come, sit on their asses, feel sorry for themselves, and commit antisocial actions. In the US, since the Welfare Reform Act in the 1990′s, immigrants have a much harder time qualifying for welfare. In NYC, under mayors Giuliani and now Bloomberg, immigrants can’t get welfare, and as a result are incredibly hard working, devoting themselves to getting the best education for their children, building up their businesses, and sending money back to their impoverished relatives. In LA and in CA generally, liberals have bent the law to give immigrants welfare, and they reap the result in gangs and crime. If immigrants want to come to a country, they should have to work, learn the language, obey the laws, and not plan on getting any welfare.

It is perhaps a bit much to state that Norway’s future will be jeopardized by these arsonist acts,but Bruce deserves acclaim for focussing on these ‘incidents’.. Since Norwegians – and Greeks! – are infamous for their lack of social ‘discipline’ there will probably be sufficient ‘spark’ and Hunger for Liberty in the nation yet to resist being cowed by islamists – or trouble makers passing as such.. Norway has a very short history as an independent nation – dating back only to 1905 – and one century will not be enough for ‘Islam’ to suppress us! Moreover, many thousand ‘immigrants’ – some without apostrophes – will eventually join forces with native Norwegians to safeguard this welfare state without which many would perish!!

I am convinced that the Progressive movement in the western countries has only one main agenda and that is the destruction of western culture and standards. They are aiming for One World Government and will wind up with One World Anarchy unless the indoctrinated masses grasp Conservative values by some sort of miracle.

Here in the US the liberal media would have us believe that Conservative Christians are the biggest threat to stability. They are presented as anarchists while the Muslims are presented as victims of prejudice.

Conservative Christians are easy targets. The media can attack them with impunity, then celebrate their own courage. The Mohammed cartoon caper showed how easily the media are cowed when faced with a real threat.

The lessons are clear to any who pay attention. If the game is “submit or die,” I’m not playing.

This article pretty much paints a picture of what is going on just about every where in the world. Political correctness & complacency by the powers that be backed up by an ignorant multitude of the citizens. Personally speaking, I can see no solution to the pollution of Shariah & the Islamization of the west short of vigilantism in order to protect & preserve each sovereign nation’s identity & culture from the clear & present danger that fanatic moslems are threatening us with. There are indisputable warnings coming from such basic institutions as kindergartens & most other public agencies of education that adults will soon be at odds & having to argue with their own children about such fundamental subjects as what’s right & what’s wrong or what’s socially acceptable & what isn’t. I’m certain that anyone who happens to be reading my comments most likely will understand what point I’m trying to make & will either 100% be with me or 100% rather see me dead, there can’t be any middle ground on this issue, it is truly a matter of a consequence of life or death based on what the current generation chooses to do.

You will find, in Israel today, the considerable weakening of the left in terms of political correctness, appeasement and unregulated democracy. The conservative right, both secular and religious Zionists (of which I am one), are increasing in power. Because the consequences of Muslim incursion and Muslim threats are always first experienced in Israel (outside the Muslim countries themselves), reaction to it can also first be seen in Israel. Western European and North American nations will, perforce, be required to shift conservative and right, like Israel, in order to survive.

Funny you should say that. The Jews are at the forefront of the Progressive movement in the US. Why would a culture or religion support and enable it’s enemies? Destroying individual rights for the good of the group works right until you are no longer part of the protected group.

Dumb, cheap shot comment. If Norway were libertarian and not socialist (which it is), there would not be so many Muslims because there would not be any welfare or moral/cultural relativism and there would not be any rapes and other violent crimes being committed by Muslim males because the natives would be armed and well-educated through private schooling or homeschooling. Libertarian does NOT mean anarchy.

Brings to mind a scene in Bunuel’s movie The Phantom of Liberty: a sniper randomly shoots people, is apprehended, tried, convicted and sentenced; then blithely released and treated like a celebrity. Progressive bourgeoisie society is unable to defend itself, or even admit threats exist.

Interestingly, however, is the clash of homosexual and Muslim “rights”: both have superceded the “rights” of the Christian—now post-Christian—West. “Beware of what one wishes for”.

In Canada, like the rest of the West, Christianity has been marginalized and demonized in order to make way for the “new order”, where the autonomous individual—Super(wo)man—has free rein/reign. When it was simply a matter of overthrowing a benign Christianity—already mined for all the riches it had to bequeath—in exchange for “do my own thing”, the scenario for the “new (wo)man” seemed a pleasant pushover.

I respect Bruce Bawer and the alarming narrative he’s sharing. However, we’ve seen this before—in microcosm: homosexual activists used bully tactics to gain the freedoms they’ve gained—at the expense of traditionalists, who are now firmly in the closet.

Irony of ironies and bit by bit, the same bully tactics, that gained homosexuals supremacy over the relatively complacent, Judeo-Christian societies, whose mores homosexual activists and their “progressive” allies repudiated, are being used by much more militant and brutal activists to achieve their ends—which are at complete odds with the homosexual agenda. Re homosexuality, compared to Islam, Christianity looks like a disapproving, but loving, mother. (Are homosexual activists maybe reconsidering their alignments?)

Up here in Canada, we have a utopian, La-La Land Charter of Rights and Freedoms, the magnum opus of our very own Obama, Pierre Elliot Trudeau. Just kidding: “Rights and freedoms”? We’ve found out, in fact, that there’s a hierarchy—THAT BAD WORD, unless one’s in charge!— of rights: in court case after court case, homosexual rights have always trumped Christian religious “freedom”. Now—any surprise?—we find that Muslim religious freedom appears to trump newly gained homosexual “freedom”. Despite strict “anti-bullying” codes everywhere, including in all our public schools, it seems that the bureaucrats will always cave to the group most willing to bully. (In complete contravention of its own codes, there’s a Toronto public school that turns its cafeteria into a “Mosque”, with imam, on Friday afternoons: girls are separated—and twice so if they’re menstruating. Reality seems like a Monty Python skit.) Hmmm . . .

Except for the group most willing to brutally bully the rest of us, this caving by our craven and hypocritical overlords is not going to turn out at all well for most of us.

Beleaguered, observant Christians are well aware of this and have tried to raise the alarm, to quite universal derision by the elites. With such people, Bruce Bawer seems to have more credibility—for now. (Unfortunately, it seems that too many Jews are oblivious to the dangers of the “progressive” agenda, via which, as usual, they’re altogether vulnerable. Wake up!)

If the so far, pretty comfortable West doesn’t get over its altogether ludicrous, juvenile “I’m OK, You’re OK.” fantasy, it’s going to be “I’m Not OK, You’re Killing Me.”—and it’ll be way too late.

Oslo already has a crime rate that is 4x higher than New York City’s. http://www.aftenposten.no/english/local/article2299327.ece Although it seems rather stereotypical to use New York as a measuring point for high crime these days–It has one of the lowest crime rates, per capita, than most North American cities, and several european cities. I’ve been to Oslo. When I wasn’t stepping over the drug addicts and derelicts in the streets, I was running from the police raids that seemed to mushroom for no other reason than someone dared to light a joint in a nightclub. Almost all of that came at the helm of whites, in particular expats from Britain and Canada. I don’t really quite understand what the fuss is over Muslim immigration in europe. From my experience, they seem to be the most approachable people in Europe today. As an American, I can identify with them being immigrants, and in some ways, pioneers. The white people of europe gave up on their culture and society many years before the Muslims began immigrating en mass into their cities. If the Muslim community is a mess, it’s largely because of the same policies that made europe a mess generations ago. Muslims suffer in Europe for the same reason why the white middle class does: left wing nihilism ushered in by white aristocrats.

“If the Muslim community is a mess, it’s largely because of the same policies that made europe a mess generations ago. ”
===

you don’t understand, it seems..
muslim enclaves suck welfare and live by shariah.. they care not for the left wing nihilism.. that just makes the kuffar easier prey..

Where in Europe do muslims suffer? Especially as compared to the 100% muslim craphole countries these ‘pioneers’ are arriving from..

“The white people of europe gave up on their culture and society many years before the Muslims began immigrating en mass into their cities.”

No, that’s a lie.. the truth is closer to “left wing nihilism ushered in by white aristocrats.”.. The People are not at fault for the choices made by the back room bum chums of the EUSSR.. Most Euros have been programed from birth to accept the decrees of the ruling classes..

America is being indoctrinated from the kids up to conform to the same suicidal socialistic tendencies of outright nihilism as we type..

“muslim enclaves suck welfare and live by shariah”
If it weren’t for the socialist state ushered in by the aristocratic whites, then this could not happen.

“Where in Europe do muslims suffer?”
Muslims live in the worst conditions throughout europe (although even the Muslims will admit, far better than where they came)

“the People are not at fault for the choices made by the back room bum chums of the EUSSR.. Most Euros have been programed from birth to accept the decrees of the ruling classes..”

you’ve contradicted yourself. If the people of Europe have no free will, then they are to blame. It really doesn’t take much effort to question simple orthodoxy. I’ve done it my entire life, first with the Catholic church and then with the socialist indoctrination in my college.

In the United States, the wealthiest demographically are middle eastern/muslim immigrants. They consistently rate at the highest income brackets. This is partly to explain why there is so little Islamic radicalism inside the US compared with even canada.

Poverty and separate but equal “Jim Crow” laws in Europe spur the unrest one finds there. Again, Islam is the weapon the disenfranchised use to wield their discontent–their discontent rises out of the white left wing aristocratic welfare state. Muslims in Europe are of the poorest groups. Belgian, one of the wealthiest countries on earth, has a sizable Muslim immigrant population—more than half live in poverty, a statistic that if it was found in the US the entire world would be rising up to protest.

” I don’t really quite understand what the fuss is over Muslim immigration in europe.”

You’re joking right? Tell you what Mark. Why not visit a Muslim country, say enlightened Turkey, and light up a joint somewhere. No big deal, Mark. You’re a tough and worldly chap. Go ahead, pal. Airfares are cheap now aren’t they? And while there bandy it about that Alllah is for suckers. No big deal. Really.

This is meant as a reply to Mark. Your analysis of Muslim communities and Muslim unreast in the West is just plain wrong. It is not a matter of poverty and social exclusion. Muslims exclude themselves. Furthermore, if it were a matter of poverty, why do most terrorists in the West come from the upper (often professional) and middle classes? The question here is one of ideology. Salafism and other fundamentalist currents teach Muslim takeover and Muslim supremacy.

@ Mark
Mark, I think your analyses are wrong. In Brussels Muslims are excluding themselves from the rest of society. There are a few books about the Muslim community in Belgium but they are written in Dutch or French. A Belgium Muslim women went undercover to write a book about it. The situation over there is very serious and something to worry about.

In Belgium, by the way, about 15% of the population lives in poverty. People don’t become radical because they are poor, otherwise Belgium would have a big problem with so many people living in poverty. People become radical because they believe in a certain ideology.

“Not that I consider Norwegian leaders to be guilty of treason, of consciously aiding and abetting the forces of sharia. No, they’re just unwitting allies — useful idiots.”
Actually they are useful idiots who are also guilty of treason and consciously aiding and abettinng the forces of Sharia.

It is important to remember that during the second world war when Nazi Germany was busy exterminating millions of people in Europe that both Norway and Sweden were instrumental in this horrible holocaust. Norway allied itself with Nazi Germany under the leadership of the pro Nazi Quisling government; Sweden declared neutrality but actively supported the Nazi war machine by conducting business with the Wehrmacht. There should be no tears for these Scandanavian countries should they suffer a similar fate under the hands of their dear and good friends, the Moslems.

Sweden was the first nation to recognize Hitler as the official leader of Germany. Sweden also allowed Nazis unhindered access through their nation so that they could march into Finland and northern Russia and commit some of the war’s most brutal atrocities. But this is often forgotten in the post-modern world where disparaging the United States (and even laying blame on it for the Holocaust) is by far more fashionable. After all, Sweden has free healthcare and lots of cafes. :o)

Johann, are you a socialist quango? Your argument is precisely why they were able to intimidate enough people to allow the importation of Muslims in the first place: “If you stand up for Scandanavians you are racist and a Nazi.” They then pass laws to punish “intolerance”. Bingo.

Muslims may be the Good Friends of my quasi-Socialist government, but I can assure you that a majority of the natives here are watching with trepidation the growing influx of ‘immigrants’ – a costly undertaking on community coffers that amounts to three billion US dollars per year covering some 440 counties!
Momentarily immigration numbers have dwindled because the Socialist government is about to lose September’s election and its course on ‘immigration’ must be steered toward the Progress party=a variant of left-wing Republicanism..
Whether better language skills – soon mandatory for all who come here – will cement integration remains to be seen.. Thus far Norway has avoided serious acts of terror, but sources who know where to look for madmen in Islam may not be revealed since it takes time to establish new ‘spies’…

The situation seems to be out of control. I read that in the Netherlands and Denmark as well, they are changing their policies regarding their “tolerances”. For instance, the Dutch are requiring the immigrants(mostly Indonesian Muslims) to adapt, learn language and customs, such as dress. They are having border inspections for visas, in other words, doing the same controls before the European Union.
Hope that we in the USA watch and learn.

It’s true that the Dutch are changing their policies. The Indonesians came a long time ago, but adjusted very well. They intermarried with the natives within one or two generations and are often middle class. Most immigrants these days are from Morocco and Turkey. Many immigrants come in under the so called family reunification law.

Some have already mentioned the violent demonstrations during G20 summits, and the recent Vancouver riots that resulted after a hockey tournament. Almost all participants can be described in one broad brush stroke: white, middle class to rich, college “educated,” and under 30. They are mostly products of lazy parents who have sat by and allowed TV to raise their children. The result is we have an angry mob on our hands. In the aftermath of the Vancouver riots, a sociologist from the University of Southern California described a new era: “The age of the mob.” I live in California. If you sit and watch the local news, any rational person would think they have entered The Twilight Zone. It’s story after story of radicalized (not just subtle) PC Marxist indoctrination, which utilizes the most elementary of “noble savage” ideology, which, ironically, is itself racist. The media and most the politicians will openly side (and sometimes even march alongside with) drug dealers, pimps, rapists, anyone so long as they have dark skin with a criminal record. They almost fight over the chance. The police have been so vilified in California, I’m stunned there are any left–I suppose they are clamoring for their pensions, if any money is left. I’m not sure even any European nations have sunk as low as California has.
One of the interesting things I’ve noticed watching the horrific spectacle of San Francisco news is, when they show the riots that ignite after a police office uses the most minimal force against a black person, those rioting in the streets are most often white students from Berkeley. The latest Oakland riot occurred after a black police officer manhandled a black hip hop drug pusher (the race of the police no longer effect media coverage of the blatant “racism. Oakland’s black shop owners prepared in advance–they boarded up their windows. Those tossing bricks and burning cars and shouting “Death to the Pigs!” were white kids, all under 25, bused in directly from Berkeley. You have to see it to believe it.

Muslims and “black crime” may be a problem statistically worldwide. But the real serious threat to our lives is the white aristocrats on the left, most of whom are being churned out on university assembly lines with college degrees in majors such as “Racism and Labor Unrest.”

Before I was nine I had learned the basic canon of Arab life. It was
me against my brother; me and my brother against our father; my family
against my cousins and the clan; the clan against the tribe; the tribe
against the world, and all of us against the infidel. — Leon Uris

Here are some points that I think only add interest to this wonderful piece by Bruce Bawer.
The following is a perspective by Dr. Peter Hammond.
Dr. Hammonds doctorate is in Theology. He was born in Capetown in 1960, grew up in Rhodesia and converted to Christianity in 1977
These bits have been pulled from Dr. Peter Hammond’s book: Slavery, Terrorism and Islam: The Historical Roots and Contemporary Threat

Islamization begins when there are sufficient Muslims in a country to
agitate for their religious privileges.

Here’s how it works:
As long as the Muslim population remains around or under 2% in any given
country, they will be for the most part be regarded as a peace-loving
minority, and not as a threat to other citizens. This is
the case in:
United States — Muslim 0..6%
Australia — Muslim 1.5%
Canada — Muslim 1.9%
China — Muslim 1.8%
Italy — Muslim 1.5%

At 2% to 5%, they begin to proselytize from other ethnic minorities and
disaffected groups, often with major recruiting from the jails and among
street gangs.

From 5% on, they exercise an inordinate influence in proportion to
their percentage of the population. For example, they will push for the
introduction of halal (clean by Islamic standards) food, thereby securing
food preparation jobs for Muslims. They will increase pressure on
supermarket chains to feature halal on their shelves — along with
threats for failure to comply.

When Muslims approach 10% of the population, they tend to increase
lawlessness as a means of complaint about their conditions. In Paris , we
are already seeing car-burnings. Any non-Muslim action offends Islam, and
results in uprisings and threats, such as in Amsterdam , with opposition to Mohammed cartoons and films about Islam. Such tensions are seen daily,
particularly in Muslim sections,
At this point, they will work to get the ruling government to allow
them to rule themselves (within their ghettos) under Sharia, the Islamic
Law. The ultimate goal of Islamists is to establish Sharia law over the
entire world.

100% will usher in the peace of ‘Dar-es-Salaam’ — the Islamic House of
Peace.. Here there’s supposed to be peace, because everybody is a Muslim,
the Madrasses are the only schools, and the Koran is the only word .
Unfortunately, peace is never achieved, as in these 100% states the
most radical Muslims intimidate and spew hatred, and satisfy their blood
lust by killing less radical Muslims, for a variety of reasons.

It is important to understand that in some countries, with well under
100% Muslim populations, such as France, the minority Muslim populations
live in ghettos, within which they are 100% Muslim, and within which they
live by Sharia Law. The national police do not even enter these ghettos.
There are no national courts, nor schools, nor non-Muslim religious
facilities. In such situations, Muslims do not integrate into the
community at large. The children attend madrasses. They learn only the
Koran. To even associate with an infidel is a crime punishable with
death. Therefore, in some areas of certain nations, Muslim Imams and
extremists exercise more power than the national average would indicate.

Today’s 1.5 billion Muslims make up 22% of the world’s population. But
their birth rates dwarf the birth rates of Christians, Hindus, Buddhists,
Jews, and all other believers. Muslims will exceed 50% of the world’s
population by the end of this century.
Please read Dr. Peter Hammond’s book: Slavery, Terrorism and Islam: The Historical Roots and Contemporary Threat

The anecdotal stories always facinate me. Almost as much as some people’s willingness to ignore what they see with their own eyes. But the statistics truly scare me. Thanks for the book recommendation – we ignore the statistical truth at our own risk.

There is a religious sect in the United States that lives similar to what you describe in the european muslim ghettos, minus the violence. They are called Amish. They live a lifestyle that is so drastically apart from the mainstream American–eschewing electricity, automobiles (they drive horse drawn buggies), cell phones, any modern conveniences. You’d think there is no way they could have survived. Yet they not only survive, they flourish. They have been in the US since before the formation of the Republic. They still retain their Swiss/French/German heritage and German is still widely spoken. They are growing at a rapid pace as you would expect form a people who most likely are not practicing birth control or seeking abortions. They consider themselves to be “stateless,” although behind closed doors you will find a sizable amount of patriotism and “GOP” sympathizers—how can they not be? They have no interest in forcing their ways on the general population. Their beliefs are regularly upheld by that amazing tenant that rises above all faiths, yet protects them, called the US Constitution–particularly the First Amendment. Apart from a few cases of state intervention, they are left to their own world, and the average American is unaffected by it, and a tourist industry has even risen around most larger Amish communities throughout the United States. They read the New Testament–in High German–which often instructs as much violence toward their fellow man (Do not think that I have come to bring peace to the earth; I have not come to bring peace, but a sword.–Matthew 10:34) as does the Koran; yet the Amish are pacifists. They were exempt from military service during the conscription days.
There are many other sub-cultures within the United States besides the Amish who have maintained their cultures and identities (there are many farming communities in the midwestern US where they still speak Swedish or Finnish), but they are still American and they embrace the Constitution which protects their rights.
Muslim inside the US also have a profound understanding of the First Amendment. They use it not as a sword to attack the US, but they appreciate it so much it has actually spurred patriotism in Muslim communities where it could never be found in Europe.
Here is a documentary from al-jazeera, which unflinchingly showed the Arab/Muslim world that Muslims are more free in the US than even in predominantly Muslim nations. The host is a Somali man born and raised in Britain. He expresses amazement at how the Somali community in the US retains its identity, yet expresses an almost passionate patriotism for the United States. He admits he could never feel that toward Britain.

You seem to blatantly dismiss Muslim terrorism within the USA beginning with 9/11. It’s been frightening. Moreover, your analysis simply ignores these facts and events. You cannot compare the Amish in any way with Muslim fundamentalism. We also have a number of colonies of Hutterites (somewhat comparable to the Amish) in western Canada. They take care of themselves, no social welfare. They interact (commercially) with their neighbours. They cause no fuss. They remain and intermarry amongst themselves. Their ideology is radically different than the fundamentalist adherents of Islam, however.

9/11 can be traced back mostly to western europe. The ones inside the United States came out of Europe, despite which nation they held passports. They certainly were not US residents or citizens. Hopefully, most people have heard of the Hamburg Cell by now. I realize the left wing MSM do not like to emphasize it or prefers to downplay Germany’s role (Wiki refers to the Hamburg Cell as “alleged” by the CIA, Germany and the US), but even the german chancellor at the time, Gerhard Schroder, expressed embarrassment and regret for his country’s role when he flew over the Manhattan devastation 10 years ago.
Again, most terrorism seems to derive from the ghettos that ring european cities more than it does the Middle East itself.
The shoe bomber–british subject, the reason why we have to take off our shoes before going through security. The reason why we can’t carry more the 3 oz. of liquids that can fit into a sandwich bag–again, british subjects. The terrorists consistently fit a common pattern—they are europeans: French, British, German, Belgian, Norwegian born and raised.
You know what we in the United States call people Indonesian, Yemeni, or Afghani descent? We call them Americans. If Europeans want to live in a twisted image of the American melting pot, then they have to start taking responsibility for what their people do of ALL heritages, not just the white ones. (BTW, there is an increasing threat against Americans from white europeans:

There is something rotten in western Europe, and, as the CIA told Obama two years ago, it poses the most serious threat to the United States. Europe’s rabid anti-Americanism combined with the oppressive conditions of its Muslim population creates a combustible mix.

I addition to its own obscene oil-fattened fascissocialist system, whose problems are very much its own, Norway’s supercilious sanctimonious simpering socialist savants saw fit to slap our beloved fraternal republic’s face by way of the “award” of herr Nobel’s peace prize to America’s two worst-ever pretenders to what each of them passed of as his “presidency.”

So Eff’em.

But on an only very slightly more serious note, the Absolutely-inassimilable, colonizing, enslaving, raping, sexual-mutilating, mass-murdering islamanazi ideology and its barbaric seventh-century votaries have no place within even the Euro-Peon’s assailed and assaulted decadent and degenerate and near-dead remnants of the Judeo-Christian/Western/Human-Civilized World to which the ancestors of the authors of the Europeon Neo-Soviet once proudly held Full Membership.

And if the Norwegians and the on-and-offshore satellites of the whole Neo-Soviet do not either rid themselves or force the conversion and assimilation of their seventh-century savages?

Their squalidly fasciSSocialistic continent and its offshore islands are shortly for a new dark ages. From which it is highly unlikely they will ever again emerge!

I always tell europeans who often believe the stereotype that US devours cultures–by the mid 21st century, if you want to see what europe used to be like, you’ll have to travel to the small American towns and ethnic inner city neighborhoods cities where their descendants’ culture is still preserved.

And speaking of the devel -
(CNSNews.com) – A British Islamic group known for its provocative publicity stunts says a borough in northeast London will be the first target of a campaign to establish “emirates” in the country – Muslim enclaves where shari’a law is enforced.

Waltham Forest, an area identified in the most recent census figures available as having the fifth-biggest proportion of Muslims – 15 percent – of any local authority in England or Wales, has been singled out by radicals behind the group calling itself Muslims Against Crusades (MAC).

“As part of our Islamic Emirate Project, Waltham Forest is to be the first borough to be targeted for an intense shari’a led campaign, introducing the prospect of Islamic law for the Muslim community to abide by,” MAC said in a statement this week.

The statement that “scaremongering should not be tolerated” is problematic. You have not defined scaremongering nor the limits of toleration. You have not made the case for anything yet your next statement is much worse.

You blame it on the French. The rest of us are supposed to accept that scaremongering is ok so long as the targets are french. They are bad Muslims as opposed to good peace loving Muslims.

I blame it on the zionists and chimney sweeps.
Why the zionists?
Why the chimney sweeps?

Well, if mr. Bawer is so unhappy with his stay in my country, he can always go home. Or at least stop getting his checks from the Norwegian socialist government. But I guess that would affect his income, eh?

This is ridiculous. If non-muslims can’t enter their little Islamic enclaves because of their behavior, it’s time to forcefully crack down on their behavior. Undercover video stings and surveillance. It’s time to roll out the unwelcome mat and start throwing them out. Tax the crap out of them and be creative and have annual pork festivals and gay pride parades — right down their main street.

With the still-developing news of a horrific car bombing in Oslo and the mindless slaughter of teenagers at Utoya, Jeremiah Wright might say that Norwegian chickens have come home to roost, except that the Norwegian chickens haven’t launched what Wright would call unprovoked wars and the Norden nations have been damned generous beyond comprehension with their influx of Islamic immigrants.

Preliminary reports indicate at least 9-10 people were killed, 15 injured in the explosion at the Norwegian prime minister’s Oslo office but many victims are still trapped in the rubble. An additional eighty, some trying to swim away for their lives, were murdered by a gunman masquerading as a police officer at the Labor Party youth camp in apparently coordinated attacks.

The coordinators seem to have been Islamic jihadists: “A terror group, Ansar al-Jihad al-Alami, or the Helpers of the Global Jihad, issued a statement claiming responsibility for the attack, . . . The message said the attack was a response to Norwegian forces’ presence in Afghanistan and to unspecified insults to the Prophet Muhammad.” (http://nyti.ms/o6sfMI)

Peace-loving Norway maintains a very minimal presence in the War on Terror and in the Afghanistan war so the chief causes of the attacks must are clearly those “unspecified insults to the Prophet,” or a reflection of the insanity of Islamic militants. They did it because they could and they needed no further excuse than their jihad. . .
(Read more at http://www.genelalor.com/blog1/?p=5064)

Mark: “Poverty and separate but equal ‘Jim Crow’ laws in Europe spur the unrest one finds there. Again, Islam is the weapon the disenfranchised use to wield their discontent–their discontent rises out of the white left wing aristocratic welfare state. Muslims in Europe are of the poorest groups. Belgian, one of the wealthiest countries on earth, has a sizable Muslim immigrant population—more than half live in poverty, a statistic that if it was found in the US the entire world would be rising up to protest.”

A bit of definition of terminology is called for here.

“Disenfranchised” means having no political power or rights; i.e. unable to vote. Any adult who is a citizen of any European country, whether native-born or immigrant, is entitled to vote. As in any democratic country. They can also run for political office. There are many foreign-born members of many European parliaments now.

As for poverty, modern western Europe is the best place in the world to be poor. No-one goes hungry, no-one is homeless, no-one goes without quality healthcare. Education is free. Immigrants and/or refugees who have contributed absolutely zero to the welfare state can still count on its largesse. No, they don’t exactly live in luxury and can’t afford nice cars or tropical vacations. I guess that’s poverty to Europeans.

Hard as it is for persons of left-wing persuasion to accept, the state is not responsible for making people happy. Like it or not, even in Belgium there is no way you can get around not working and “living in poverty.” The go together. Unemployment, the refusal and/or inability to work, to invest, to save money, to start businesses, coupled with a high birthrate directly proportional to the lowest levels of education, is what causes poverty. Not racism. Those living in poverty in Europe may not like their lives, but they wouldn’t go back to their countries of origin, either. They know they would be just as miserable there and also a great deal poorer.

I was an immigrant myself, so I feel somewhat more entitled to my admittedly harsh and unsympathetic view of “struggling” immigrants than the native-born. We go to other countries to make a better life, not to be given an easier one. That’s what immigration is all about, at least it used to be, and still should be. But it seems in Europe it has become something else entirely.

Attractive element of content. I simply stumbled upon your web site and in accession capital to claim that I get actually enjoyed account your weblog posts. Any way I will be subscribing on your augment or even I fulfillment you get admission to consistently quickly.

Good day very nice site!! Man .. Beautiful .. Superb .. I’ll bookmark your blog and take the feeds additionally?I’m happy to search out numerous helpful info here within the submit, we need develop more techniques on this regard, thank you for sharing. . . . . .

I liked as much as you’ll obtain carried out proper here. The cartoon is attractive, your authored subject matter stylish. nevertheless, you command get bought an shakiness over that you wish be turning in the following. sick surely come further previously once more as precisely the same just about a lot frequently inside case you defend this increase.