1998 - - Right to Possess and Carry Firearms. Penalties for Criminal Use (CA) - - failed to qualify

2000 - - Right to Keep and Bear Arms (CA) - - failed to qualify

2001 - - Right to Keep and Bear Arms (CA) - - failed to qualify

2004 - - Right to Keep and Bear Arms. (CA) - - failed to qualify

2011 - - Concealed Firearms (S) - - failed to qualify

2013 - - Firearms Regulation. (CA) - - failed to qualify

Out of 20 items submitted, somehow related to guns, just 1 actually qualified for the ballot – that is, just 1 collected sufficient valid signatures.(updated 2015)

Historically, since 1912, 3 of 4 proposed measures failed to qualify, and of the qualified, 2 of 3 were rejected. From 1976 through 2010, just 14.5% of submitted measures qualified, and for the first 10 years of the 21st century, it has been just 11.1% successful.

Try to look dispassionately at the current public climate in California: most people do not care about guns.

Guns are not a 'pocket book' issue.

Guns have a negative image in our media. That provides free anti-gun advertising.

A good portion of California gun owners - present Calguns company excepted! - just want to be left alone*. There's a strong aversion to 'getting on lists' and 'attracting attention'. Signing up to support a ballot measure, even registering to vote, is often rejected. So, whatever the real numbers of gun owners in California, their interests are diverse; 'gun owners' are not a political force - gun ownership does not unite us.

Barring our own unpredictable pro-gun event on the scale of Patrick Purdy or Virginia Tech, some huge emotion-changing, if-only-they'd-had-guns-they'd-have-been-OK thing, public support for the kinds of changes in gun laws most Calgunners would like to see just is not there.

California's century-old ballot initiative process was created to counter the powerful interest groups thought to be controlling the state government, said John Matsusaka, president of the University of Southern California's Initiative and Referendum Institute. In practice, he said, the great number of signatures required and the short time frame in which to gather them -- about five months -- make it nearly impossible for even the most well-organized of citizen groups to succeed without a trove of cash and an army of paid signature gatherers.

So, because

the public is not on our side

the media is against us

gun owners are not a powerful bloc

ballot measures are extremely expensive

the initiative process really doesn't work for 'the people' any more

- that is, because the current conditions are just wrong, trying to get some pro-gun measure on a ballot isn't helpful.

That sucks, but that's real.

It might be possible to change 3. It's possible, I think, to reduce the impact of 2 and move to change 1. But until we change 1 and 3, no ballot measure we would like has a chance to pass.

(* I'm sure quite a number of Calgunners would also like to be 'left alone', but being here shows at least some realization that gub'mint isn't going along with that.)

I actually wish the mods here would ban these "why don't we put ____ on the ballot" threads. Or just put up a standard notice of why it's such a mistake and then lock the thread.

They are coming up more and more frequently and the idea is just as bad as it ever was.

__________________
I will spit whenever I hear the word Libertarian from now on.

In the 2016 election, Libertarian voters threw the swing states of Nevada, Colorado, New Mexico, Minnesota, New Hampshire, and Maine to Hillary, for a total of 38 electoral college votes. Hillary would have created a permanent a permanent entitlement class and permanent Democratic control over the US.

'Cuz we'd get our butts kick REALLY BAD and that would kill forever the chance of getting "shall issue" CCW in the state. I'm not convinced its ever going to happen anyway but putting a measure on the ballot would be a grave mistake. If we ever get it done here it'll be thru the courts. Don't hold your breath.

__________________
Things usually turn out best for those who make the best of how things turn out.

Because if someone here started some effort to do a ballot initiative, what would happen is a lot of well-meaning people would spend a lot of their time collecting signatures and would still end up with about 5% of what they need to get it on that ballot. That means that 100% of the time they put into it would be wasted. There are so few of us (RKBA activists) in this state that we must be efficient with our time and resources. Investing time and resources into something which can't even possibly make it onto the ballot is something we absolutely cannot afford to do.

Quote:

Originally Posted by timmyb21

This makes you sound like you're saying we should give up or leave it for someone else to deal with.

No, we just shouldn't do it. Do you have $3mil to hire enough paid signature gatherers to get something onto a ballot? Didn't think so, and I don't either. And that's how much it costs to do it. And the NRA doesn't have a spare $3mil sitting around either, to blow on an initiative which will not win.

Quote:

Originally Posted by timmyb21

What should we be doing?

GOOD QUESTION! I can make a long list of things that are not a waste of time:

Take a non-shooting friend out to shoot for the first time

Join the NRA, and get your friends and family to do the same

Get a non-res CCW from UT or FL, and get your friends or family to do the same

Talk to a city council candidate in your city about CCW. I have, in one of the most ultra-liberal cities on this planet, and have gotten positive responses.

If you're in a position to, run for city council

Attend an NRA members' council meeting

Send a letter to your assembly or state senate reps

Meet in person with city council members and ask about CCW, or meet with your assembly rep and ask about gun issues

Take a non-shooting friend out to shoot for the first time. Oh did I mention that before?

ALL of these things are productive and will get us somewhere.

Remember, with a ballot initiative, if it's one single signature short of the required amount, it doesn't get on the ballot and all the effort that went into it is completely wasted. And none of ours would get even close to enough signatures; they will get to about 5% probably, if it's an all volunteer effort.

Our volunteer time is limited so spend it wisely, not foolishly.

__________________
I will spit whenever I hear the word Libertarian from now on.

In the 2016 election, Libertarian voters threw the swing states of Nevada, Colorado, New Mexico, Minnesota, New Hampshire, and Maine to Hillary, for a total of 38 electoral college votes. Hillary would have created a permanent a permanent entitlement class and permanent Democratic control over the US.

Why is it a bad idea? This makes you sound like you're saying we should give up or leave it for someone else to deal with. What should we be doing?

1. You have a spare mil or two for paid professional signature gatherers?

2. You got $70mil - $100 Million to have a chance at running an initiative?

If you don't have #1, you can't even get to #2.

If you have #1 and can't run a statewide campaign, you lose. That's a disaster.

This money is far better spent on court fights, which we are winning/can win/will win.

__________________

Bill Wiese
San Jose, CA

CGF Board Member / NRA Benefactor Life Member / CRPA life memberNo postings of mine here, unless otherwise specifically noted, areto be construed as formal or informal positions of the Calguns.Netownership, The Calguns Foundation, Inc. ("CGF"), the NRA, or my employer. No posts of mine on Calguns are to be construed as legal advice, which can only be given by a lawyer.

We tried to get enough signatures 2 years ago to get a "2nd amendment" added to our state constitution, we failed by a LOT of signatures. Unless you have paid signature gatherers, you don't have a snowballs chance of even getting on the ballot, let alone getting the exposure to get people to vote in favor.

Now that we live in a post-McDonald world, the "2nd Amendment" is de facto part of our state constitution.

__________________
Achievement of your happiness is the only moral purpose of your life, and that happiness, not pain or mindless self-indulgence, is the proof of your moral integrity, since it is the proof and the result of your loyalty to the achievement of your values. -Ayn Rand

Overall the whole initiative process and directly democratic elements of our form of government do far more harm than good and California has suffered for it and as others have mentioned, even if you could get something on the ballot your plan would certainly backfire.

Now that we live in a post-McDonald world, the "2nd Amendment" is de facto part of our state constitution.

And it got there through courts. Which is one of the points of this thread.

__________________
"I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson
"Thou shalt not interfere with the Second Amendment rights of "law-abiding" citizens who want AK-47s only to protect hearth and home." - Paul Helmke finally gets it :)

Because if someone here started some effort to do a ballot initiative, what would happen is a lot of well-meaning people would spend a lot of their time collecting signatures and would still end up with about 5% of what they need to get it on that ballot. That means that 100% of the time they put into it would be wasted. There are so few of us (RKBA activists) in this state that we must be efficient with our time and resources. Investing time and resources into something which can't even possibly make it onto the ballot is something we absolutely cannot afford to do.

No, we just shouldn't do it. Do you have $3mil to hire enough paid signature gatherers to get something onto a ballot? Didn't think so, and I don't either. And that's how much it costs to do it. And the NRA doesn't have a spare $3mil sitting around either, to blow on an initiative which will not win.

GOOD QUESTION! I can make a long list of things that are not a waste of time:

Take a non-shooting friend out to shoot for the first time

Join the NRA, and get your friends and family to do the same

Get a non-res CCW from UT or FL, and get your friends or family to do the same

Talk to a city council candidate in your city about CCW. I have, in one of the most ultra-liberal cities on this planet, and have gotten positive responses.

If you're in a position to, run for city council

Attend an NRA members' council meeting

Send a letter to your assembly or state senate reps

Meet in person with city council members and ask about CCW, or meet with your assembly rep and ask about gun issues

Take a non-shooting friend out to shoot for the first time. Oh did I mention that before?

ALL of these things are productive and will get us somewhere.

Remember, with a ballot initiative, if it's one single signature short of the required amount, it doesn't get on the ballot and all the effort that went into it is completely wasted. And none of ours would get even close to enough signatures; they will get to about 5% probably, if it's an all volunteer effort.

Our volunteer time is limited so spend it wisely, not foolishly.

A few more:

1. Donate money to the people who actually bring about the court cases beneficial to 2nd Amendment rights: CGF, SAF, NRA, and now CRPA. On SAF, NRA and CRPA, becoming a member isn't necessarily enough, as the legal action committees/foundations run off a different fund from the membership one.

2. Help support those cases by providing your time when needed.

3. Help defeating proposed bad laws by providing your time when needed.

4. Figure out some legal ways to destroy the antis. See, there's the fun part, too

Speaking of #4, I'm being derelict in my duties. I better get on it

__________________
"I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson
"Thou shalt not interfere with the Second Amendment rights of "law-abiding" citizens who want AK-47s only to protect hearth and home." - Paul Helmke finally gets it :)

Driving to my house at the end of a cul de sac and seeing the neighbors (who all pretty much keep to themselves) there are not any firearm owners in the entire block and would oppose easing of restrictions on RKBA.

.

__________________

The deterioration of every government begins with the decay of the principles on which it was founded. Charles-Louis de Secondat (1689-1755) Baron de Montesquieu

In America, freedom and justice have always come from the ballot box, the jury box, and when that fails, the cartridge box.

Another thing you can do: If you live in an district represented by an anti-gun democrat, write your reps and tell them that *as a democrat* and *one of their strongest supporters* and a *civil rights supporting liberal* that you support the RKBA as a civil right... and that you find their antigun sentiment both racist, and against your liberal ideals.

If you write in as a pro-gun conservative, your letter goes straight into the shredder.

AND failed initiatives do more harm than good. it gives our opponents quasi statistics that we are a minority/fringe. esapecially if they actually make the ballot and are defeated. those results can be forever drug out to say the majority opposed. bad juju!