Okay, I know they don't support menus or TCP/IP, but obviously menus will be added some day (it's too important), and TCP/IP support is to be added. TCP/IP support for PocketC would cost me around 4,500 dollars (I asked around for people, found one, he said he's charge that much). Now that tehre are stand alone PRCs in PocketC I"ll be making some mroe programs in it, but I'm still going to be using AppForge because it's very easy and quick to make the forms and lay them out and make changes, and there's TEXT EDITING CAPABILITY. And it's faster than PocketC. But not as good for games, sadly (although my MMORPG will be made in AppForge, it's not intensive on graphics). I have an HTML editor I'm making with AppForge. Also, although it requires a 330k runtime file, and it's still a virtual machine, this runtime file is being included all ALL future Palms. That's good. So, business apps: AppForge, games: PocketC. And I might be getting a review copy of AppForge so it's all good

Eventually I will probably be forced to have the runtime. That may be true. However look at all of the features that AppForge is missing. True they will probably add more functionality. To me, this means that the runtime library is very likely to grow. It is possible that their planning process has taken all Palm features into account, but more likely is the possiblity that the runtime will gain substantial weight.

What I protest is the unnecessary wasted space. I think AppForge just goes against my coding philosophy. I'd much prefer small neat code, but as soon as Microsoft (in this case Visual Basic) the code bloats.

I wasn't thrilled with PocketC's runtime file of ~54K, but I find that it is a resonable price to pay in size with the payback of onboard development.

For the price I'd rather just buy CodeWarrior and get the official coding platform. When it comes to finished apps, choosing between a CodeWarrior app or an app with a runtime of any sort, the choice goes with CodeWarrior, all else being equal. GCC being equal to CodeWarrior in all respects except the initial learning curve.

I'm not telling you to drop AppForge, but on the other hand, when you add 330K to the size of your apps, there are a lot of people who will balk. It better be a REALLY good program or I for one will pass on it.

According to the AppForge press releases Palm has obtained rights to distribute the runtime. Booster (The runtime library) doesn't look like it will be part of the OS, just included on that CD you get along with lots of other programs that I didn't bother to install.

Not to plug the competition, but why don't you try Hotpaw Basic. It has TCP/IP and is similiar in capability to pocketC. It also has some text field support. Unfortunately, it doesn't have a desktop compiler.

I've decided NOT to use AppForge.
Oh, and I already have Hotpaw Basic, but you can't make standalone apps etc.
it has TCP/IP support? hmm I'll have to look into that but I've taken up using CASL (caslsoft.com)
I know it has a runtime, but the Pro edition can generate C code from your application!!! That means stand-alone apps, fast apps, tiny apps, etc.!
And you can chagne the C code for more customized applications
and learn C more easily by looking at the code it generates
and, the standard edition is only 60 dollars, and the pro upgrade is an additional 40 dollars! only 100 dollars compared to AppForg'es 700 dollars.
Oh, and I attended a PDA developer's meeting, and asked Palm. They said it won't be included on the new m500/m505's, but they may include it in later palms (possibly on the flash rom? there's 4 megs flash rom on the new palms). They own the rights to the runtime (booster.)
but the apps are slow, limited, and HUGE
casl is better it has TCP/IP support, UDP support, Telnet support, HTTP support, and lots more.... it's great

Oh no, I'm not stopping with PocketC It's still one of my favorite Palm languages. I use CASL when PocketC would be too slow or too limited. Like my new HTML editor, PHTML. THat couldn't be made in PocketC. But for when I'm coding on the road, I'll use PocketC actually, with CASLPro you can generate C code, and there's a program for the Palm called OnBoardC, and I COULD work on my CASL programs on my Palm