..... When my 12 y.o. niece shot an older and larger deer at the same spot at about the same range with her 7-08 A-bolt II (140gr @ 2800) this fall, "poop" sprayed out his behind, he mule kicked, hunched up and ran 10 yards to the creek and piled up..... shot through the heart, bullet went in through the the nearside "elbow" and out the far side a couple inches forward....

When I hollered, "Hit him?" from the other side of the creek, my brother answered, "Dunno! He ran into the creek......"

"And he pooped!" My niece (P) added......

I'm thinking, Great! Gut shot deer...... "See any blood?"

..... (pause while I ran to get further down the creek, to get between the creek and an unpicked cornfield, and brother and niece walk to where the deer was at the shot) ....

Me-"Do you see any blood!?!?!"

P-"No, but there's a lot of poop!"

Me- "Deer poop all the time .... and everywhere .... that could be days old."

P- "UncleJim, it's still steaming- I saw him poop when I shot him!"

Me-??????

BrotherJohn- "Here's some blood .... and hair!"

P- "More blood.... here he is!"

The deer had made it out of sight, and fallen down into the creek...... and kicked a little..... including the slide into the creek, he had not gone 20 yards.

I've shot deer through the chest in one side and out the other and had them go 100 yards .... or drop to the shot. I've even lost a couple .....

I wouldn't do it but I have a neighbor that has never lost a deer shooting them with his .204 Ruger and he's up to about 25 with it now. Most are DRT head or neck shots. He's shot the gun, is confident in it, never uses it in windy conditions and limits his range to 100yards and under, though he did bust a sookie with a neck shot at 120 this year that was DRT.

Conversely I've lost one deer in my life with a 30'06 165grn Nosler Ballistic Tip at 130 yards. I didn't make the best shot but the bullet failed to expand passing between two ribs on one side and out between two on the other. Bullets do weird things when they leave the barrel sometimes, animals are resilient and tough and shot placement is everything when hunting.

I have as much or more confidence in my .243 than in my mags or .30 caliber rifles. Every shot I have made with it this season has been a one shot smoker that resulted in corn pile dead or 20 yards of tracking.

It's done, and I have seen it done, w/ bamaboy and a Mini-Mauser and a 6x Leupold. Federal Tactical (read bonded) 62 gr slug the first time and a Fed bonded 55 the second.

Both deer went no further than deer have gone shot w/ heavier calibers and were every bit as dead. Both were hit properly (lungs) under very controlled settings, me coaching, rifle on a support, ideal angles, much practice prior.

First deer got a pass through and easy trail, about 75 yds.

Second deer we got absolutley no blood trail, (no exit either) though the deer went only 50 yds or so, it got into some VERY thick cover and the followup was interesting.

Proper bullets, proper placement, and ideal conditions, and the .223 can take deer. We moved to a bigger caliber the third year and the .223 is for practice and varmints now.

As others have said it is certainty doable if you do your part. I shot a 120lb doe this season using a MFS 62gr, granted I was only at 35yds but I was impressed with the damage that it did. The round broke right shoulder bone, broke a right side rib, turned the top of the heart and the tips of both lungs into jello, broke a left side rib and kept on going. The only trace of the bullet I found was small 1/4" piece of the jacket. I have photos of the carnage if anyone to see them.

The doe fell backwards and made it about 4' from where I shot her, blood all over the place.

Anything other 100yds I feel would be pushing it but if you hunt in an area like mine anything over 75yds is a long shot.

And yes I know that is a 30rd mag and yes it was blocked to 5 rounds. I didn't get a 5rd mag ordered before deer season.

I'm sure that the .223 will kill a deer out to 200 yards with a well placed bullet. The same goes for most center fire rifles. The key here is well placed bullet. Most deer hunters are not going to get the picture book shot of a deer standing stationary broad side. With a larger caliber rifle you have a larger kill area because the larger bullet tears up more vitals, and with a marginal shot you are more likely to down the animal.

They sight the gun in once a year, maybe. Cause when you try to help them, they dont want any help and they know that a few clicks will lower the group 6" at 50 yards-or they move the windage and then the elevation rather than both at once.

If they hit the paper 'that is good enough'.

The same hunters want to move the opening of deer season from a long time Nov 15th to the second Saturday of NOV so they can hunt more.

They need more shooting. Go out and shoot 2 or 3 boxes of ammo/year and after a couple years you will find out how to load the magazine.

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