Monday, March 2, 2009

From its inception, Islam has been committed to what it calls jihad — a word meaning holy war. The duty of Muslims is to subjugate or destroy "infidels" — the term the Koran uses for all non-believers.

In the Muslim viewpoint, the world is divided into two regions — those areas controlled by Islam, called Dar al-Islam (meaning the House of Islam) and those called Dar al-Harb (the House of War). The Koran commands Muslims to fight non-Muslims until they exterminate all other religions, leaving Islam as the one and only religion in the world (Suras 2:193 and 8:39). Muhammad is quoted in the Hadith as saying, "I have been ordered to fight with the people until they say, none has the right to be worshiped but Allah" (Hadith 4:196).

Regarding terror, Allah orders Muslims to terrorize non-Muslims on his behalf: "Strike terror (into the hearts of ) the enemies of Allah and your enemies" (Sura 8:60). Allah then assures his followers that he will assist them: "I will instill terror into the hearts of unbelievers. Smite them above their necks and smite all their finger-tips off them. It is not you who slay them, it is Allah" (Sura 8:12, 17).

Concerning jihad, the Koran guarantees Paradise to those who fight for Allah (Sura 4:74).1 It promises instant Paradise for those who die in battle (Suras 9:111 and 47:5-6). Dying for Allah is presented as better than living: "And if you are killed or die in the Way of Allah, forgiveness and mercy from Allah are far better than all that others may amass [of worldly wealth]" (Sura 3:157).

Martyrs are promised a sensual and luxurious life in Paradise (Sura 52:17-22). According to Al-Ghazzali, one of Islam's greatest teachers, when a martyr reaches Paradise, he "will marry 500 companions, 4,000 virgins, and 8,000 divorced women."2 Commenting on this statement, Randall Price, biblical teacher and Middle East expert, observed that the Islamic Paradise is "just the kind of place that adolescent, unmarried men, isolated through their lives from the opposite sex by rigid cultural standards, would die for.3

Islamic Sermons

The murderous imperialistic nature of Islam is clearly revealed in the sermons delivered weekly throughout the Muslim world. Consider the following excerpt from a sermon by Sheikh Ibrahim Madhi that was broadcast live over Palestinian television on June 8, 2001. Referring to a suicide bombing in Tel Aviv that had killed 21 Israeli teenagers the week before, he praised the terrorists:4 "Blessings to whoever waged jihad for the sake of Allah. Blessings to whoever raided for the sake of Allah. Blessings to whoever put a belt of explosives on his body, or on his son's body, and plunged into the midst of the Jews, crying, 'Allahu Akbar!' Praise to Allah!"

Then he expressed the imperialistic aims of Islam by issuing warnings to nations that would be "erased:" "Allah is almighty... We must prepare the ground for the army of Allah that is coming according to [divine] predestination. We must prepare a foothold for them. Allah is willing for this unjust state of Israel to be erased. The unjust state, the United States, will be erased. The unjust state, Britain, will be erased."

A similar sermon was delivered the previous year on October 13, 2000, by Dr. Ahmad Abu Halabiya.5 It too was carried live on Palestinian television. He proclaimed that the true terrorists are the Jews "who must be butchered and killed, as Allah the Almighty has said." He called for Muslims to have no mercy on the Jews: "Fight them wherever you are. Wherever you meet them, kill them,... and kill those Americans who are like them — who stand by them." As an incentive to carry out these murderous exhortations, the cleric added: "O brothers in belief, the beautiful bride has a costly price and dowry... Our bride is Paradise. O brothers in belief... the cost of the dowry of this bride... is that we fight in the path of Allah, and kill and be killed."

Keep in mind that these are quotes from sermons! Can you imagine a Jewish rabbi or a Christian minister urging their congregations to go out and kill a Muslim for God?

Fundamentalist Goals

The Ayatollah Khomeini of Iran was the modern day Islamic spokesman who revived Muhammad's vision of world conquest. He taught that the re-establishment of Israel was a Satanic miracle allowed by Allah because of the lukewarmness of the Muslim masses. He called for a renewal of true Islam to accomplish three purposes:6

To overthrow the "secular" rulers of Islamic countries (like Algeria, Morocco, Tunisia, and Egypt), just as he had done in Iran.

To take back the land of Palestine for Allah, exterminating Israel in the process.

To conquer the rest of the world for Allah.

Notice the first priority was the transformation of secular Islamic countries into religious states ruled by the Koran. Then would come Israel and the world.

In a proclamation made by Osama bin Laden in 1998, he listed the same goals and prioritized them in the same order.7 He then identified the United States as the prime obstacle to the achievement of these goals. Accordingly, he called on Muslims everywhere "to comply with Allah's order to kill the Americans and plunder their money wherever and whenever they find it."

It is important to note that the eradication of Israel is not the top priority. Nor is Israel viewed as the major obstacle to world conquest. I emphasize this because many Americans are saying that the key to winning the war against terrorism is to dump Israel. More and more, on radio talk shows, I hear people saying, "Let's cut Israel loose. Let the Arabs have it. Then they will leave us alone."

That is utter nonsense. Israel is not the cause of Islamic terrorism toward the West. If Israel were to disappear tomorrow, Fundamentalist Islam would still be determined to destroy America as part of its plan to take the world for Allah. And if we were to abandon Israel, the Muslim world would interpret it as an act of cowardice, proving our word is meaningless and that we truly are, as they say, "a depraved society devoid of values." Our abandonment of Israel would only whet their appetite. Islamic Fundamentalism cannot be appeased. It must be defeated.

Mitchell said... "According to the Bible, the nations that are destroyed at Armageddon are today Islamic."

No, not exactly. The nations that are destroyed during the Armageddon war are the nations of the whole world.

Some may be islamic today, but they will not be islamic by that time. Syria will be gone in Isaiah 17. The muslim nations which come against Israel in Psalm 83 have their turbans and shemaghs handed to them as well. Iran, Libya, Turkey, Sudan and or Somalia as well as the horde with Gog/Magog from currently muslim central asia and the caucasus will not exist as we know them today. They will be destroyed by God Himself during the war of Ezekiel 38/39. All of these things occur prior to the beginning of Daniel's 70th Week (Tribulation).

SeanOsborne writes, "Some may be islamic today, but they will not be islamic by that time. Syria will be gone in Isaiah 17. The muslim nations which come against Israel in Psalm 83 have their turbans and shemaghs handed to them as well."I'm seeing some presumptions here - you are assuming that this happens prior to the 70th week of Daniel, and that Islam will therefore be all but destroyed. That is not what the Bible actually says on the subject. When we examine the texts closely Ezekiel 38 & 39 is another description of Armageddon. Keep in mind that Gog is the ruler who is called the "chief prince" and Magog is simply the people of Gog who are with him. Ezekiel names additional conspirators.

Armageddon is not a one day war that only happens at the end of the tribulation -- from Scripture there are clues that this is a prolonged battle, perhaps starting at the mid point of the 70th week after Antichrist reveals his true colors, and according to Scripture there is no reason to believe that Isaiah 17, Psalm 83 and Ezekiel 38 & 39 happen before the start of the battle we call Armageddon. But there is reason to believe that this all happens some time during Armageddon, including the destruction of Damascus.

Prophets often described the same events with different details added or omitted, depending on the prophet. We see the same thing in the Gospels. Additional details are found in Ezekiel or Zechariah, for example, and different details of the same event are in Joel and Daniel or Isaiah, for instance. Same event, different description - all pieces to the exact same puzzle. When the whole puzzle is put together we see Christ destroying the Islamic nations that surround Israel at His Coming.

Mitchell said:"That is not what the Bible actually says on the subject."

Incorrect. Your timescales are totally off kilter.

Is there any reference to the Temple in Jerusalem within Ezekiel 38/39?

No there is not.

A very strong exegetical indicator that the war of Gog/Magog in Ezekiel chapters 38 & 39 -- which sequentially and prophetically follow the events described in both Isaiah 17 and Psalm 83 -- occurs prior to the Tribulation, and prior to the "covenant among many" associated with the revealing of the antichrist.

Ezekiel does not mention the rebuilding of the Temple until the chapter following the war of chapters 38/39.

How much of a exegetical hint is it that Ezekiel does not mention the Temple until IMMEDIATELY after that war in Chapter 40?

There is no question, no doubt about it, that the Temple is built and in worship service operation no later than the mid-point during the first 42 weeks (3.5 years) of Daniels 70th week of years.

The initiation of the rebuilding of the Temple must be occurring simultaneously with 7 months of burials and thereafter with the continued employment of men to mark the bones of the dead for subsequent burial in the Valley of Hammon-Gog (near a new twon to be called Hamonah) and the buring of this hordes weapons of war for 7 years.

As Daniel describes this time there will be a 3rd Temple with ongoing Jewish ritual of the daily Sacrifice.

SeanOsborne says, "Is there any reference to the Temple in Jerusalem within Ezekiel 38/39?"

Come on Sean, you should know better than that. Claiming that no mention of a temple therefore precludes this from being Armageddon is like saying that no mention of the Empire State Building on Saturday Night Live means that it must be a rerun.

Consider the following statement concerning Israel's restoration, found only two verses after Ezekiel's invitation to the birds:

Ezekiel 39:22, "So shall the house of Israel know that I am the LORD their God, from that day and onward". It is clear that the period written as, "that day and onward," is referring to an endless period that begins at the day of Gog's destruction. But if we place that day of destruction prior to the tribulation, then we must view Israel as knowing the LORD their God forever beginning before the tribulation begins! This is so unscriptural that it stretches credulity to the point of absurdity. To the contrary, prophecy tells us that God will hide Himself from Israel in the second half of the week so that "that day and onward" cannot begin prior to the tribulation or even in the first half of Daniel's 70th week, but is much better viewed as spoken after the week, as a result of Armageddon.

All of prophecy relating to Israel's endless blessings, which includes the opening of the eyes of the Jews when Jesus appears visibly before every eye in Israel, commences at the end of Armageddon. And what do we notice about the Gog/Magog battle? Christ is physically present!

Ezekiel 38:20, "So that the fishes of the sea, and the fowls of the heaven, and the beasts of the field, and all creeping things that creep upon the earth, and all the men that [are] upon the face of the earth, shall shake at my presence...".

Any other clues that Christ is physically present?

Ezekiel 38:18, "And it shall come to pass at the same time when Gog shall come against the land of Israel, saith the Lord GOD, [that] my fury shall come up in my face."

Any other clues that tell us He is physically in Israel?

Ezekiel 39:7, "So will I make my holy name known in the midst of my people Israel; and I will not [let them] pollute my holy name any more: and the heathen shall know that I [am] the LORD, the Holy One IN Israel."

In Ezekiel 38:16 we read that, as a result of Gog's destruction, the nations will know God also. In 38:23, the LORD repeats this claim: "I will be known in the eyes of many nations." Apparently, you must be strangely convinced that the nations will know the LORD before the tribulation. But how can this be when Revelation makes it plain that the nations will reject Him plague-after-plague until the very last one: Armageddon? How can the nations know God when so many are receiving the "mark of the beast"?

But 39:21 conflicts with your assertion all the more by saying that as a result of Gog's destruction, "I will put my glory among the nations," an event that cannot happen prior to the tribulation, early in the week, or even during Armageddon, but only after Armageddon when Christ has punished the nations.

Through this same Ezekiel prophecy, the LORD becomes much more persuasive along these lines:

Ezekiel 39:25, 29, "Now [as a result of Gog's destruction] I will remove the captivity of Jacob, and will have mercy on all the house of Israel...I will not any more hide My face from them...".

Do you see that this is post-trib talk? Indeed, it is post-Armageddon talk. How could God have placed Gog's defeat at Armageddon more convincingly? It is made plain that, via Gog's attack on Israel, the LORD was hiding his face from Israel, but via Gog's destruction, God would never again hide His face from Israel, wherefore Gog's destruction cannot be prior to the 70th week of Daniel. Is it not clear, therefore, that the period of hiding His face will be during those 42 months???

To quote Governor Palin, "You betcha!" Your post is a blatant example of eisegetical hermeneutics based on presuppositions and is an example of how those presuppostion inhibit a proper reading and understanding of the Biblical text. This is a common mistake, and I don't blame it on you per se, but perhaps on the errant "prophecy books" and articles you've been reading.

Here is a radio interview with Dave Hunt discussing Ezekiel 38 & 39 that you might find interesting:

In case you still have doubt brother Sean, here is a more concise list why Gog/Magog is the same battle as Armageddon.

Fourteen Reasons Why Ezekiel 38 & 39 Is Armageddon

(1) Not one statement in these two chapters (38-39) mention a war in Israel before Armageddon [or after].

(2) The battle of Armageddon is the only war predicted by the prophets that could possibly be referred to in these chapters (Ezek. 38:17). Armageddon is mentioned many times by Isaiah, Jeremiah, Micah, and other prophets before the days of Ezekiel (Isa. 1:25-31; 3:25-26; 13:1-16; 24:21; 63:1-6; Jer. 25:30-33; 30:11,20-24; Joel 2-3; Oba. 1:15-21; Mic. 1:3-4; 2:12-13; 5:5-15; etc.).

(3) The destruction of Gog and his armies (Ezek. 38:18-23; 39:1-6,17-20) compares with similar statements about Armageddon in Joel 3; Zech. 14; Rev. 19:11-21.

(4) Gog will not fall upon the open field until Armageddon (Ezek. 39:3-5; Rev. 19:11-21).

(5) The great supper for the fowls and beasts will only be at Armageddon (Ezek. 39:4,17-20 with Mt. 24:27-28; Rev. 19:17-21).

(6) The presence of God (as pictured in Ezek. 38:18-21; 39:1-6,17-24) will not be until Armageddon (Isa. 63:1-6; Zech. 14:1-5; Rev. 19:11-21).

(7) The supernatural destruction of Gog and his armies (as described in Ezek. 38:21-23) will not be until Armageddon (Isa. 63:1-6; Joel 2-3; Zech. 14; Rev. 19:11-21).

(8) God will not magnify and sanctify Himself and set His glory among the heathen (as stated in Ezek. 38:23; 39:21-24) until He comes at the second coming of Christ -- at Armageddon (Zech. 14:1-21; Mt. 24:29-31; Rev. 19:11-21).

(9) Gog will not bring the many armies of the nations into Israel to be destroyed until the time of the second coming of Christ, at Armageddon, as referred to in Ezek. 38:18-23; 39:1-7 and proved in Zech. 14:1-5; Rev. 16:13-16; 19:11-21.

(10) The great earthquake of Ezek. 38:20 will not take place until the seventh vial and the second coming (Zech. 14:1-5; Rev. 16:17-21; 19:11-21).

(11) God's presence will not destroy Gog and his army until the second coming, at Armageddon (Ezek. 38:20; 39:2-7 with Zech. 14:1-5; Rev. 19:11-21).

(12) Gog and his army cannot be destroyed in a war in Israel before the second coming, at Armageddon, to fulfill Ezek. 38:18-23; 39:1-7,17-20, and then be destroyed again at Armageddon to fulfill Isa. 63; Joel 2-3; Zech. 14. We must therefore recognize all these passages as referring to the same destruction -- at Armageddon (Rev. 19:11-21).

(13) The burial of Gog and all his armies destroyed in the fulfillment of Ezek. 38-39 will be at the second coming of Christ (Ezek. 39:11-16 with Dan. 7:11; 2Th. 2:8-12; Rev. 19:11-21).

(14) It is at the second coming of Christ that God's glory will be set among the heathen and Israel will be completely gathered and blessed (Ezek. 39:21-29; Zech. 14; Mt. 24:29-31; Rom. 11:24-29; Rev. 19:11-21).

There is not one single scripture in the Bible that describes any war in Israel after the Gog-Magog war -- because there isn't one. If we accept the Battle of Armageddon as coming after Gog-Magog, then, we must accept two supernatural destructions of two gathered armies by the Lord of Hosts each led by a different Assyrian Prince, two great suppers for the fowls, two great earthquakes that shake the whole world, two mass burials of armies in a valley called Hamongog, two 7-year periods of burning weapons, and two different days about which God proclaims, "Behold, it is come, and it is done, saith the Lord GOD; this is the day whereof I have spoken."

Ezekiel says they will be seven months burying the dead and seven years burning the weapons. This obviously can't happen during the Tribulation Week with everything else that will be going on. Weapons of war will only be burned after Christ returns and Israel is living in perfect peace under the Prince of Peace, no Antichrist in sight and weapons of war are no longer necessary. And, it won't just be Israel that burns weapons of war. In the beginning of the Lord's Millennial Reign we will see the fulfillment of Micah 4:3.

"And he shall judge among many people, and rebuke strong nations afar off; and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruninghooks: nation shall not lift up a sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more."

In other words, all the nations of the world including Israel will be implementing the most massive and permanent disarmament program in history.

Further, the Gog-Magog war cannot take place before the Rapture when the "Restrainer of Lawlessness" is removed for obvious reasons as proved in the many Scripture references above. It cannot take place in the first half of the Tribulation Week for such an significant event would certainly have been mentioned by John separately from Armageddon if they were two separate events conducted by two separate invading "Princes". Furthermore, it is beyond credibility to think that Ezekiel would describe the invasion of Israel in the latter days by an Assyrian Prince named Gog and never once mention a war as significant as Armageddon led by another Assyrian Prince if they are two different "Princes" and two separate conflicts. Remember, Ezekiel's war and Armageddon are both described as being destroyed in a single day, the same day, the Day of the Lord.

Finally, it is only at the Second Coming and after the Battle of Armageddon that Ezekiel 39:7-8 can possibly be fulfilled: Ezekiel 39:7 "So will I make my holy name known in the midst of my people Israel; and I will not let them pollute my holy name any more: and the heathen shall know that I am the LORD, THE HOLY ONE IN ISRAEL. Behold, it is come, and it is done, saith the Lord GOD; this is the day whereof I have spoken."

Thank you for your arguments in support of the Gog-Magog Battle being Armageddon, Mitchell! I am working on that series that you requested, based on our last poll.

I think you're confusing Israel's turning to God as Israel accepting Yeshua as their Messiah. Due to the Gog-Magog invasion, God will definitely become real to Israel. They build the Temple again with no constraints after all. But, to accept Jesus is a different acceptance, one the remaining Jews won't make until Jesus' return to this earth during Armageddon at the end of the Tribulation (Matt. 23:39).

I should add as a reminder that Christ the Lord is PRESENT at Gog/Magog when the whole earth shakes at His presence. He is the Holy One IN Israel.

And notice the following verse:

Eze 39:8, "Behold, it is come, and it is done, saith the Lord GOD; this [is] the day whereof I have spoken."

Prophets often have separate descriptions of the same event -- all pieces to the same "puzzle". Gog/Magog is definitely Armageddon, according to Scripture. We must not let presuppositions cloud our judgment.

Nathan Jones says, "Not to the Jews, not yet. That's the point. Jews can accept God, but very few accept His Son Yeshua."

Brother Nathan, that is the whole point of Ezekiel 38 & 39.

"Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Now will I bring again the captivity of Jacob, and have mercy upon the whole house of Israel, and will be jealous for my holy name;... Neither will I hide my face any more from them: for I have poured out my spirit upon the house of Israel, saith the Lord GOD."

This only happens when Christ physically returns at the end of Armageddon and sets his feet on the Mount of Olives, and as we can see He is present in Israel in Ezekiel 38 & 39, the Holy one IN Israel. This is Armageddon.

Uh, no it is not. As pointed out above there is no 3rd Temple in Ezek/38-39 for the antichrist and false prophet to cause the 'abomination of desolation' at the 3.5 year mark of the 7 year tribulation.

No, proper Biblical exegesis places Gog/Magog prior to the Tribulation, at the climax of which is the physical return of Jesus Christ.

Re-read Ezekiel 38-39 closely. There is no doubt that this is definitely Armageddon. To say that Gog/Magog is not Armageddon is to say that Christ physically comes down in wrath, shakes the planet, crumbles mountains, sinks islands, sends hail, fire & brimstone and destroys the invading armies, feeds their bodies to ravenous birds, gives them a burial place in the valley and, restores Israel and proves to the world that He is God, then goes back up to Heaven and comes back down and does the exact same thing all over again a few years later because everybody had amnesia. That contention is illogical and is based on warped hermeneutics. These are not two different wars. They are separate descriptions of the same event.

Eze 39:8, "Behold, it is come, and it is done , saith the Lord GOD; this [is] the day whereof I have spoken."

Sorry, but Ezekiel 39 describes the reason the Jews return to YHWH worship and rebuild the Temple (if it were Messiah worship, there would be no Temple). For the same reason they worshiped YHWH in the desert: He proved His power to the Hebrews by destroying Pharoah's army in the Red Sea.

Another reason that the Gog/Magog invasion cannot be Har'maggedon is the fact that the "Kings of the East" are not present for judgment; only the Islamic nations and Mother Russia are mentioned.

Sid Roth says rightly that the Jews need a sign to believe, and what better re-introduction than destroying another Satanic army bent on Isra'el's destruction?

Anyone who believes that Gog/Magog is not Armageddon has serious theological and textual hurdles to jump. When Gog is destroyed God says that Israel is restored, that "it is done". Christ is physically present at the end of the Gog / Magog battle and the earth shakes at His presence. He is the Holy One IN Israel. It is textually nonsensical to suggest this is a separate war before the tribulation or before Armageddon. I think what we have here is an example of how presuppositions inhibit a proper reading of the text. It is very common, and it gets repeated by people/teachers who hear it from other people/teachers, but we need to get back to the Word and find out what the Word says, not other people.

son of thunder, I would recommend a listen to Dave Hunt's radio interview. He makes some good points.

Mitchell said... "Anyone who believes that Gog/Magog is not Armageddon has serious theological and textual hurdles to jump."

No, actually the opposite is the truth of the matter.

Son of Thunder just gave you the specific reason why this is so, wherein he stated: "Ezekiel 39 describes the reason the Jews return to YHWH worship and rebuild the Temple (if it were Messiah worship, there would be no Temple)."

This is exactly and specifically correct. This is directly the point I was making with respect to Ezekiel 38/39 and 40. There is a specific sequence to the described events.

I would say that anyone who rejects this prophetic sequence is rejecting the prophetic Word of God.

SeanOsborne writes, "Son of Thunder just gave you the specific reason why this is so, wherein he stated: 'Ezekiel 39 describes the reason the Jews return to YHWH worship and rebuild the Temple (if it were Messiah worship, there would be no Temple).'"

Where does Ezekiel 39 mention a temple? It doesn't at all. Again, you have a serious theological problem on your hands with such a contention. Ezekiel 39 describes the restoration of Israel in no uncertain terms. Two points need to be made here.

First, building a temple and conforming to the old Law and reinstating sacrificial offerings does not bring Israel into any spiritual reconciliation with God whatsoever. Paul makes this explicitly clear in Galatians 5:1,4, calling the old Law the "yolk of bondage" and that anyone who attempts to be justified by the old Law is estranged from Christ and falls from grace! Therefore, in order for Israel to know the Holy One IN Israel per Ezekiel 39:7, they must know Christ. Notice Ezekiel 39:29 --

Eze 39:29, "Neither will I hide my face any more from them: for I have poured out my spirit upon the house of Israel, saith the Lord GOD."

When does this happen? According to Zechariah the Lord does this when Christ returns after the tribulation and destroys the invading armies at Armageddon:

Zechariah 12:9-10, "And it shall come to pass in that day, [that] I will seek to destroy all the nations that come against Jerusalem. And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for [his] only [son], and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for [his] firstborn."

Yes, Gog/Magog is indeed the Battle of Armageddon. When one approaches Scripture they should shed themselves of preconceived theories and bias (or at least be open to other possibilities), for this can often only serve to inhibit a proper understanding of the text. To say that Gog/Magog is not Armageddon one must ignore numerous verses which in turn creates serious theological and textual problems.

Second, Ezekiel 40 is in a completely different context and focus from Ezekiel 38 & 39. Just look at the first verse, "In the five and twentieth year of our captivity, in the beginning of the year, in the tenth [day] of the month, in the fourteenth year after that the city was smitten, in the selfsame day the hand of the LORD was upon me, and brought me thither."

Ezekiel was not seeing some rebuilt tribulation temple to be constructed on the Temple Mount. In fact, Ezekiel "describes in great detail a temple in Israel that is much too large to fit on the present Temple Mount site. The Temple of Ezekiel proper measures about 875 feet square, and it sits in the middle of a large consecrated area. Ezekiel's temple is also very different in many details from any previous temples that have existed in Israel (or elsewhere). Therefore most Bible scholars believe there will one day exist in the Holy Land a Fourth or 'Millennial' Temple... According to many Christian Bible scholars, the Fourth Temple (Ezekiel 40-45) will be 'memorial' - a teaching center apparently to instruct men about the holiness of God and proper worship during the coming kingdom of Jesus on the earth. As sinful men and women continue to be born into the world in the millennium, the temple is supposed to remind everyone of the substitutionary death of Jesus on the cross, as the 'Lamb of God,' some two thousand years earlier."

Mitchell said... "Where does Ezekiel 39 mention a temple? It doesn't at all.

Mitchell,That's excatly the point No mention of a Temple in Ezekiel 38 or Ezeliel 39 indicates this war occurs prior to the constructions of the Temple which most certainly does exist by the middle of Daniel's 70th Week, it's first mention is at mid-week.

Sean, in Zechariah's context of Armageddon there is no description of a temple either. Using the same logic you would have to conclude that the war that Zechariah describes is not Armageddon.

If you want to insist that Ezekiel's temple is sequential to the Gog-Magog war, then you should therefore acknowledge that the Gog-Magog war in Ezekiel is in fact Armageddon at the end of the Tribulation since Ezekiel's temple is indicative of some type of "Millennium Temple" to many scholars and is unlike any other temple before it. Per above, Ezekiel "describes in great detail a temple in Israel that is much too large to fit on the present Temple Mount site. The Temple of Ezekiel proper measures about 875 feet square, and it sits in the middle of a large consecrated area. Ezekiel's temple is also very different in many details from any previous temples that have existed in Israel (or elsewhere). Therefore most Bible scholars believe there will one day exist in the Holy Land a Fourth or 'Millennial' Temple... According to many Christian Bible scholars, the Fourth Temple (Ezekiel 40-45) will be 'memorial' - a teaching center apparently to instruct men about the holiness of God and proper worship during the coming kingdom of Jesus on the earth. As sinful men and women continue to be born into the world in the millennium, the temple is supposed to remind everyone of the substitutionary death of Jesus on the cross, as the 'Lamb of God,' some two thousand years earlier."

I understand the resistance to change your view regarding the Gog-Magog battle, but we need to allow Scripture to interpret Scripture, even if it conflicts with a view we've held previously.

For example:

Gog-Magog: Ezekiel 39:29, "Neither will I hide my face any more from them: for I have poured out my spirit upon the house of Israel, saith the Lord GOD."

Armageddon: Zechariah 12:9-10, "And it shall come to pass in that day, [that] I will seek to destroy all the nations that come against Jerusalem. And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for [his] only [son], and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for [his] firstborn."

Zechariah focused more on Messiah at Armageddon, Ezekiel focused more on the attacking nations at Armageddon. Both Zechariah and Ezekiel, however, note that the Lord is physically present at the end of the battle. Both Zechariah and Ezekiel note the restoration of Israel to Messiah is at the end of the battle. Both Zechariah and Ezekiel note the supernatural destruction of the armies at the end of the battle. Both Zechariah and Ezekiel note that God will not magnify and sanctify Himself and set His glory among the heathen until Christ comes at the end of the battle. Both Zechariah and Ezekiel describe the great earthquake, which will not take place until the seventh vial and the second coming of Christ, at the end of the battle. Both Zechariah and Ezekiel note that it is at the second coming of Christ that God's glory will be set among the heathen and Israel will be completely gathered and blessed. Both Zechariah and Ezekiel note that it is only at the end of the battle that the Spirit of the Lord is poured out upon Israel.

Ezekiel 38:12 mentions the motive as "for a spoil". Daniel 11:36 mentions that Antichrist wants to divide the land for gain at Armageddon. The reason for Gog-Magog / Armageddon is for Antichrist and those with him to plunder and take over the land of Israel for themselves.

SeanOsborne writes, "Zechariah 12 prophecy does not mention Gog/Magog, nor any of theother nations, nor the specific motives of the invasion as does Ezekiel."

Zechariah makes it clear that the nations are the surrounding nations that take part in Armageddon. Zech 12:2 says "Behold, I will make Jerusalem a cup of trembling unto all the people round about, when they shall be in the siege both against Judah [and] against Jerusalem." (KJV). The "people round about" is "am cabiyb" (H5971 & H5493) and it means "people, nation, from every side". The NLT reads "to all the nearby nations that send their armies to besiege Jerusalem." Zechariah calls them the surrounding nations, Ezekiel adds more details and names them. They are both separate descriptions of the same battle.

SeanOsborne writes, "Moreover Ez. 38 & 39 does not make any mention of the Antichrist. Therefore Ez. 38 & 39 IS NOT Armageddon."

Zechariah 12 & 14 doesn't mention Antichrist either, so you're point is invalid. In fact, the Lord calls Gog the "chief prince" in Ezekiel 38:2 and tells Ezekiel to prophecy against him. Gog is the leader, Magog are the people/nations that are with him.

These are indeed the same battles.

I have shown you numerous proofs why Gog-Magog is Armageddon. If you're keen on applying "correct exegetical application of Scripture" and applying sound hermeneutics, there is only one conclusion. They are indeed one and the same.