I was just wondering what kind of setups you guys have or what would best like coiolovesr all around if so which ones or coilovers in the front trd lowering springs in the back. Asking what would be good for daily and drift

Take a look at the Fortune Auto Coilovers Battle Garage offers. We spent a good amount of time testing and revising the Battle Garage x Swift rear springs (Full spring and coilover spring) which offer a built in progressive spring rate: daily driving comfort with no sacrifice in performance.

If you're looking for a "store-bought" option, Fortune Auto is the way to go. I have these on mine and I couldn't be happier. The digressive dampening does wonders for daily driving. Just be sure to get the radial bearing mount upgrade if you go this route. I didn't at first, but got them later. I wrote a lengthy review of them here: viewtopic.php?f=9&t=21044

Then there's the DIY route, which can get you the same, if not better results, for potentially cheaper. TRD, Koni, Bilstein shocks and Swift springs seem to be pretty common and proven to perform. T3 offers a good budget package thats pretty popular as well, and they'll let you pick your own shocks.

I'd just like to say not everyone is happy with progressive spring rates. I know competent people, and good track drivers which steer clear of them. I won't write a dissertation here, but do some google research on progressive vs linear springs and rates.

FA coilovers are pretty much tier 1 though, especially the setup that BG sells. BC is a good tie for 1st place on the 86. Otherwise I would go custom (tons of information), or not bother buying anything else/sticking with stock. Remember that old springs sag a bit, and you will actually sit a bit "lower", even though your shocks are probably trash at this point.

The two criteria you have stated you want to use the car for are entirely different so you will end up being more compromised than is ideal for both disciplines. Best you can do is use soft springs for daily driving and then use your adjustable dampers to stiffen up the suspension when drifting. An adjustable anti-roll bar on the rear would be a benefit too.Height adjustment on the coilover body would also help. If you decide against coilovers on the rear, T3 sell a nice spacer that sits on top of the spring to add a little extra height for daily use.

totta crolla wrote:The two criteria you have stated you want to use the car for are entirely different so you will end up being more compromised than is ideal for both disciplines. Best you can do is use soft springs for daily driving and then use your adjustable dampers to stiffen up the suspension when drifting. An adjustable anti-roll bar on the rear would be a benefit too.Height adjustment on the coilover body would also help. If you decide against coilovers on the rear, T3 sell a nice spacer that sits on top of the spring to add a little extra height for daily use.

Imo, custom is always best. Its because the setup can be tailored for the car's intended use.

As far as off the shelf coilovers go... on paper it sounds like fortune auto and shockworks are the best rounded. Both claim ae86 specific tuning. Shockworks even claims model specific road tuning, and has default 6/4k spring rates, which is a sign they actually may have done model specific tuning (all other off the shelf kits use cookie cutter 8/6k rates...) BGRS, claims road tuning as well for their FA kit, but only in the form of optional rear springs (please correct me if im wrong). Also, FA dampers are digressive!

There are more obscure options that Im less familiar with. Toda has a kit, GAZ has a kit; also, iirc, ennepetal japan has an expensive kit that some of the current 'n2 tsukuba' cars use. Companies like kw, etc. have made custom kits for ae86 race cars and could make one for you, but at a cost of at least $3k+++++.

T3 is decent too. They fall somewhere in between custom and off the shelf in my mind. Its because they use off the shelf shocks, usually from other makes/models; although, theyre known to work on an ae86. If t3 could do their own bespoke ae86 model specific damping somehow it would be a huge plus.

Group 4 has a similar approach as t3 with their ae86 suspension. The main difference is they tune more for rally, whereas t3 is meant for drift/track use.

Deuce Cam wrote:IT3 is decent too. They fall somewhere in between custom and off the shelf in my mind. Its because they use off the shelf shocks, usually from other makes/models; although, theyre known to work on an ae86. If t3 could do their own bespoke ae86 model specific damping somehow it would be a huge plus.

Just to bounce off what was said here, for their coilover conversion kits you're able to swap whatever shocks you want in them with an added expense. Well, the ones they offer. Pretty sure right now its KYB AGX, Bilstein, TRD Blue, and Tokico HTS. I almost bought the T3 stuff with TRD Blue shocks.

Exactly. Their original front 'coilovers' are oem ae86 strut casings that are shortened 40 mm and converted to accept coilover springs. (After a while they started adding a welded on spindle brace too.)

Their new advanced front coilovers mirror all the dimensions as the original, but with ALL NEW PARTS (rather than reusing old stuff). I asked about the gland nut thread size some time ago and he told me they use the coarser thread from later models, rather than the fine thread oem ae86 uses.

As mentioned any of the popular 'short stroke' shocks will fit, and many others.

I tried the adjustable trd race blue shocks previously with their og 'coilovers.' Tried 6.5, 7, and 8k springs. (Little-to-no preload.) They're good: high performance, plenty of rebound, but a bit harsh on the street, even on decent roads...

Just refreshed my setup with some changes. Converted to coilover up front with swift 3.5k main springs and 6k tenders. Custom 2.8k rear springs from ajps. Also added 10 mm spring spacer on LR only to help get rid the infamous 'lean'. (Ghetto corner balance haha.) Using standard long bilstein shocks for ae86 still. Overall its a tad lower than stock but not much.

So far my impression of performance is . Front end grip is very good now. Balanced overall, good feel/feedback, and car just wants to turn in. Easy to consistantly hit precise apex points.

I wish it was a tad lower though... have a little room up front with the coilovers, beforeni run out of usable travel. Might get new custom rear springs in future based off what i learned from first set...

Deuce Cam wrote:Just refreshed my setup with some changes. Converted to coilover up front with swift 3.5k main springs and 6k tenders. Custom 2.8k rear springs from ajps. Also added 10 mm spring spacer on LR only to help get rid the infamous 'lean'. (Ghetto corner balance haha.) Using standard long bilstein shocks for ae86 still.

So far my impression of performance is . Front end grip is very good now. Balanced overall, good feel/feedback, and car just wants to turn in. Easy to consistantly hit precise apex points.

Some time on this setup now and have put it through its paces on real mountain roads.

The ride is ok, not comfortable, but firm. Ever so slight weirdness over bumps at times which i attribute partially to the dual spring rate up front (tenders arent compressed 100% at static ride height, close, but not quite).

When pushing the car hard the front feels very good when turning, noticeably better than all other setups ive had. Turn-in is easy and it GRIPS - very confidence inspiring. Seems to handle everything so far. Surprising especially since ive only aligned it myself...

Unfortunately the rear needs work still. Has that pogo'ey bouncy feeling at times which i hate... driving down rd and at limit in a turn. Have some ideas... starting with what i already have opposed to buying new stuff...

...Pretty sure some of the poor rear feel is due to the factory default setting on my cusco rs 1.5 lsd. Need to try dialing the lockup rate back to 60% (from default 100%), and maybe try removing some of the springs to soften the engagement/ramp rate.

Deuce Cam wrote:coilover up front with swift 3.5k main springs and 6k tenders.

How does that work ? I interpret that as a long 3.5kg spring with a short 6kg spring on top. And that is going to work as a dual rate setup. Whereas I thought tenders are usually skinny low rate springs that are just in there to keep the spring captive under droop. Or is the 6kg a typo ?

Cheers... jondee86

Give a person a fish, they eat for a day. Suggest they search before posting, and they learn a skill for a lifetime.

Good question. As i understand it, generally speaking, 'helper' springs are there to hold main springs in place at, or near full droop (if needed). Thats their only purpose really since they have virtually no spring rate. Otoh, 'tender' springs look similar, but they are available in different spring rates which allows one to tune their setup with a progressive aka dual spring rate if desired; but, if the main spring is really strong tenders may be used just to hold it in place also.

Usually when tenders are used on a performance car its setup so the tenders are fully compressed, aka blocked, at static ride height. The secondary, aka main spring rate, is used only on compression, while the lower dual spring rate will come in to play at some point on droop/extension. As I understand it this is done to soften the rebound force of the spring(s).

Fwiw, the primary/dual spring rate is always lower than the secondary/main spring rate, as far as i know.

Dual spring rates are often tuned to operate on compression woth high performance offroad vehicles. The idea is that the lower primary spring rate is there to really soak up bumps on compression.

My setup was a bit of an experiment with a lot of guess work... especially pertaining to my corner weights, which i dont know... I wanted to see what a dual spring rate would be like on compression. My aim was to have 1" or less of travel on the 6k tender spring at static ride height. I wanted to see if i could get the tender to act as mini shock absorber, per se.

I ended up with 10 mm of travel on it at best, perhaps its closer to 5 mm -hard to say fo sure since its not easy to measure. Iirc, i calculated the primary/dual spring rate to be roughly 1.7kg/mm using the 3.5k main spring and 6k tender spring. The difference in primary/secondary spring rate isnt that large, which i hoped would minimize any 'progressive' spring rate weirdness.

To clarify this further for everyone... if the 6k tender spring isnt fully compressed im on the primary 1.7k spring rate. When the 6k tender fully compresses im on the secondary main spring rate of 3.5k.

Ahhhh.... interesting I looked into dual rate setups a few years back but as I wasn't going to coilovers, I never studied it in depth. There would be a lot of juggling of spring lengths to get the effect that you wanted. You would need the 6kg spring to coilbind when you still had travel left in the 3.5kg spring.

Standard AE86 runs about 1000kg, so approx 250kg per corner in front. A 3.5 + 6.0kg combo gives a rate of 2.21kg so about 113mm drop without preload. Thats 71mm for the 3.5 kg spring and 42mm for the 6kg spring. Add another 25mm travel to the 6kg spring before binding, and you need a spring with 67mm of travel before binding. By then the spring load is 400kg on both springs.

So the 3.5kg spring has compressed by 114mm and if we allow for a 1G bump load, then it will compress a further 29mm for a total of 143mm. Total compression for the combo would be 143 + 67 = 210mm. That would be more travel than you could get with a typical coilover setup, so more calculations required

I can see this kind of setup being great for Baja trucks, but I found the 3kg Espelir fronts a bit soft when hitting bumps at speed and braking into corners. Hence my move to stiffer springs. They give away a bit of comfort and grip for a gain in high speed handling and stability. At least that is my take on my setup so far.

Cheers... jondee86

Give a person a fish, they eat for a day. Suggest they search before posting, and they learn a skill for a lifetime.

Its been around a year since did the calcs and bought the parts. Just peaked at a dual spring rate chart again and your right about the 2.2k'ish rate. I used an 11" main spring with 7" of travel. Its a tall stack height altogether... Fwiw I use 14x6 +13 wheels w/ 195/60 tires, and i had to throw on my 10 mm wheel spacers to get the tire to clear the spring perch.

The 6k tender spring blocks far before the 3.5k main fwiw. At static height the 6ks are practically blocked, and the 3.5k main still has plenty of travel. Id hit the bump stops far before the main springs would block.

Also worth noting: at first i tried installing with the spring stack just held captive at full extension. At static height i probaly had around 3/4" of travel left on the tenders. However, my ride was way raked and my rear springs are fixed; therefore, i wound up my front spring perches a ton, effectively preloading the springs a bunch, to a point where the ride heigjt in the front was raised about 5/8". Now i have somewhere between 0-10 mm of travel on the tenders at static.

I admit its not the most consistent feeling setup, and definitely not ideal on race track or moderate to high speed sweepers. However it really shines at lower speeds, tight turns, and uneven surfaces. It could very well be a setup that feels fast, bit actually isnt

Edit: For me it doesnt feel too soft over bumps or umeven surfaces, but it does still dive a lot under heavy braking.

These guys (and I'm sure that there are others) https://www.hypercoils.com/dual-rate-springs/are offering a range of one-piece dual rate springs. I was trying to imagine what they would be like to drive on ? Kind of like having a big soft bumpstop I guess

And yeah... a lot of variables to be juggling when trying to find a dual rate setup that will work considering the spring rates and lengths available. Having fancy coilovers with height adjustment independent of preload might help, but that type of coilover usually has very short shock travel. So no easy answers.

Soft springs are great for around town and cruising. The Espelirs were ideal for 98% of my driving. The only time they felt wanting was hard braking into downhill corners and hitting big dips (whoops) at speed. Under those circumstances a bit more spring rate was needed to prevent bottoming or excessive body roll. And as I intend to enter a few street sprints and hillclimbs next year, I decided to go with the R*SR's. Plus it was time for a change

Cheers... jondee86

Give a person a fish, they eat for a day. Suggest they search before posting, and they learn a skill for a lifetime.

Those are very interesting indeed. Good to know since they are a direct swap for my setup - damn near perfect dimensions. Its too bad they dont offer any lower spring rates. Lowest main/secondary rate is 6.2k.

I agree about the flexibilty of added shock height adjustment with off the shelf coilovers. Side note: emailed fortune auto and they told me their front shock travel is 4.6 in front, and 4.3 in rear. Oem ae86 replacement stuff list upwards of 8" travel, but that doesnt factor the bump stop, which is 2" tall. So only 6" really. Cant remember on the rear but its slighty less, iirc.

I dpnt mind body roll so much, can = grip. (I dont like brake dive though.) So far i have no indications of bump stop contact. I know Im not far off in the front though. I put a zip tie around the cartridge (inverted bisteins) to have a visual reference of max compression while driving after the install. In hindsight, before assembly/install, I wish i would have thought to fully compress each shock with a separate zip tie to cleary mark the point of zip tie contact. D'oh!