AS I WAS READING A POST THIS THOUGHT CAME IN LOUD,AND VERY ASSERTIVELY>>>"HEY,THERE IS A DIFFERENCE BETWEEN SOBRIETY(NOT DRINKING) AND RECOVERY(RETURN TO SANITY)--IN THE ROOMS I HERE A LOT OF TALK AND THE USE OF THE WORD SOBRIETY,WHICH CAN BE FOR NEWCOMERS,CONFUSING-AS IT INFERS"NOT DRINKING" WHICH IS A START BUT A FAR CRY FROM RECOVERY--WHICH IS STATED IN HOW IT WORKS " STEPS WE TOOK WHICH ARE SUGGESTED AS A PROGRAM OF RECOVERY" NOT "SUGGESTED AS A PROGRAM OF SOBRIETY" SORTA LIKE " MEETING MAKERS MAKE IT" YEA, A LOT OF MEETINGS-OR READ THE BOOK, GET A SPONSER. I TAKE THIS RECOVERY- SERIOUS, AS MANY DO,SO I BRING THIS TO THE TABLES,AND SHARE WHAT WAS SHARED W/ME,ABOUT TRUE RECOVERY,THRU THE 12 STEPS-THE PROGRAM OF ACTION,AS SET FORTH BY OUR FOUNDERS-I BRING UP TOPICS ABOUT STEP WORK,EMOTIONAL SOBRIETY,WORKING W/OTHERS,MEDITATION...THE OTHER DAY I BROUGHT UP THE TOPIC "10 STEP AND OLD IDEAS" I WAS PUT BACK ON MY HEELS WHEN A BIG PERCENTAGE OF THE FOLKS WERE ASKING FOR THE 12 STEP FLYIER TO SEE THE 10TH STEP-AS IF THEY DID NOT KNOW WHAT IT WAS!!IT APPEARS QUALITY IS AMISS AND I FOR ONE FEEL COMPELLED TO PUMP UP THE VOLUME @ THE MEETINGS I ATTEND.....

I use both interchangeably. The message I hear is that I am sober/in recovery if what I am doing is living life and liking it and not using alcohol. I get to do that when I CARRY the AA message and live it in all my affairs.

I put CARRY in caps as I have to remember I am a custodian of the message only, if I adapt or change it it won't work any more as I'd have a chinese whispers situation going on. I take the sheet from those ahead, make my copy for reference and pass on the original to the next person...

I know those that tell me they are happy simply not drinking. For them, just being sober is a tremendous spiritual experience. Is that recovery? To them, it is. I can't judge them. I love them. God bless them.

But, for me -- I want more. That next horizon is always calling me.

It comes down to:

What do I want?

What am I willing to work for?

What am I willing to give away?

It's all in the book. I need to keep it simple & stay in the book or I'm all over the parking lot! I need to live it, or what I say in meetings is just a Hallmark card.

I understand what you're saying, Robert. Last week at a meeting, people were surprised when I said "let go & let God" is not in the book. But I said the idea is - self-sufficiency failed us. You can catch a lot more flies with honey!

You have a wonderful opportunity to be of service! How about a big book study?

Thanks for the topic, Robert...
and, thanks for your replies, GeoffS and Sunlight.

As I've read in the Big Book, there are different types of alcoholics. The types it referrs to are all alcoholics -- just different types.

When I was fresh into sobriety -- it puzzled me as to "why some alcoholics in AA can stay sober by simply going to meetings without doing Step work to recover."

Some of the answers that I discovered were:

1. Not everyone in AA that goes to meetings and identifies as alcoholic -- is alcoholic. Their problem is drinking -- but, they are non-alcoholic. And, for some of them -- just not drinking makes for a better life for them and they stay away from the problems that they everience when drinking.

2. Just because an alcoholic in AA is physically sober -- doesn't mean they have treated their alcoholism. They are basically the same as they were before AA, they're just not drinking. They often settle for less and compromise for less because:

a. They don't know any other way.
b. They are unwilling to "take and work at" the AA program of recovery. (12 Steps).

I'm one of those alcoholics of the "hopeless variety"... just not drinking makes me crazier than drinking. The type that "can't live with it or live without it." I believe that this is the type of alcoholics that our founders were -- and in essense, this is the type that the Fellowship of AA was originally intended to help.

Most of us AA's seem to be pretty good people at heart. We enjoy helping others regardless of their problems -- and we especially enjoy helping alcoholics and problem drinkers even if they are not alcoholic, or of the type that we are. We'd like to be of help to those who are only potential alcoholics, also. Hoping, that if they stop in time -- they might not end up in the "hopeless variety."

As Sunlight mentioned -- I also believe that it's best for me to make great efforts towards not judging anyone. That, for me, is a win-win approach. It helps me as much as it is helpful to them.

I was also told that after the BB was published and circulated, that many alcoholics were staying dry -- simply by attending meetings and trying to be helpful to other alcoholics. They were staying sober. And, they were getting better than they were... and for them, that progress was enough to satisfy their desires. I see no problem with that -- I would have done it that way, too, if I could have done it that way.

For me, semantically, I have to remember that my definitions of sobriety and someone elses definition -- may not match. And, that's okay with me. My definition of "coffee" refers to "good coffee"... and not junk coffee. Some coffee drinkers don't realize there is a difference in good coffee and junk coffee, some don't care, and some would spit out and choke on what another coffer drinker might consider "good coffee."

For me, life would be really grand if everyone thought and believed as I do. However, they don't. So, I've made it my business to live a life that is really grand -- regardless of the differences in thoughts and beliefs.

Like Dallas said, it don't matter what you call it, its a lifelong learning and changing process for me too.

I call it "sobriety" and it is a "spirit" that keeps me striving to seek God's will for me and the Power to carry that out. It helps me to be of maximum usefulness to God and my fellows. Sobriety is a realtionship that serves as a basis of every other relationship I have.

My relationship with sobriety gets better because I know if I look at sobriety as a relationship I give myself to, instead of a "thing" or "event" or "result", I will work to improve it, and I'll be able to "achieve" a lifelong committment to it, one day at a time. By improving my relationship with sobriety, I improve my relationships with my fellows (alcoholic), the God of my understanding, and the "creation" we know of as tthe "third rock" from the sun.

THANKS YA'LL I DO ENJOY PUTTING MY THOUGHTS OUT THERE,GETTING THE FEEDBACK,WHICH ALLOWS ME TO EXPLORE DIFFERENT IDEAS,LOOK @ MY PERSPECTIVE, AND RE-EVALUATE MY THOUGHTS ABOUT THE SUBJECT MATTER IF APPLICABLE------THIS SITE IS A GREAT TOOL.....I AM VERY GRATEFULL FOR MY SOBRIETY TOO!.........ROBERT