Has anyone ever fired an incumbent Manager of the Year in the offseason?

Girardi might have a good-sized ego, but Loria takes the cake. Yeah, the White Sox development and talent acquisition SHOULD have led to division championships in 2002 and 2003, but it didn't. Had a little something to do with the manager.

http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/sports/baseball/15371796.htm

At any rate, looks like either Girardi or Piniella are on their way to Wrigley.

Flight #24

08-28-2006, 05:25 PM

2 points:

1) If he does fire Girardi, that would be a pretty dumb, ego-driven move.

2) You have to credit Loria for hiring some solid FO talent, who appear to have fairly successfully and rapidly rebuilt this team to where they're a fringe WC contender now and look like a potential title contender in the next few years. That speaks to his ability to identify the right guys, so if he doesn't like Girardi, :dunno: maybe he's right?

Baby Fisk

08-28-2006, 05:26 PM

What an *******. He wants this team to fail at all costs. Miserable swine.

soxinem1

08-28-2006, 05:32 PM

While I think Girardi should have been a little more tactful, owners do not need to sit and heckle umpires, that's what they hire managers for.

For a team many expected to lose 100 games, he should be tickled tjat his team is even listed with the WC contenders.

Either way, he won't be unemployed long if he does fire him.

But the cubs won't hire him.

They'll hire Keith Moreland instead.

Tekijawa

08-28-2006, 05:34 PM

http://www.fmstar.com/graphic/j/j0171.jpg

"Welcome to the first day of Spring Training"

caulfield12

08-28-2006, 05:36 PM

2 points:

1) If he does fire Girardi, that would be a pretty dumb, ego-driven move.

2) You have to credit Loria for hiring some solid FO talent, who appear to have fairly successfully and rapidly rebuilt this team to where they're a fringe WC contender now and look like a potential title contender in the next few years. That speaks to his ability to identify the right guys, so if he doesn't like Girardi, :dunno: maybe he's right?

I just think they're doing their franchise a huge disservice (by the way, Dombrowski deserves credit too, to an extent).

You don't have random front office execs as "random sources" badmouthing Girardi in the local press about his "micromanaging," temper, control issues (he's being portrayed as worse than Showalter), personnel decisions (rumors about players that Girardi wanted to keep that would have turned out disastrously, and pitchers he wanted to leave in the minors)...

He's taken a team with 16 players born in the 80's, the youngest team with the lowest payroll and he's within a week's worth of fine play of taking the WC lead at this point in the season.

Obviously, something he's doing is working well...no matter what you think about Manuel, he was right for the 2000 White Sox team, at that point in its development.

But to say it's all about the talent on the field and has nothing to do with the manager, well, we all know that's not true.

If Buddy Bell or Pujols were managing the Tigers this year, would they have the same record? Or if Jerry Manuel/Bevington/LaMont was managing the Twins, would they be leading the WC?

buehrle4cy05

08-28-2006, 05:36 PM

Loria's really just mad because the Marlins are winning too much.:rolleyes:

samram

08-28-2006, 05:37 PM

What an *******. He wants this team to fail at all costs. Miserable swine.

That's the correct analysis. This team's ability to be very good every 3-4 seasons could endanger his plans to get the franchise out of South Florida, as seen here (http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/15329122.htm).

caulfield12

08-28-2006, 05:37 PM

While I think Girardi should have been a little more tactful, owners do not need to sit and heckle umpires, that's what they hire managers for.

For a team many expected to lose 100 games, he should be tickled tjat his team is even listed with the WC contenders.

Either way, he won't be unemployed long if he does fire him.

But the cubs won't hire him.

They'll hire Keith Moreland instead.

Why would they hire Keith Moreland?

Baby Fisk

08-28-2006, 05:42 PM

That's the correct analysis. This team's ability to be very good every 3-4 seasons could endanger his plans to get the franchise out of South Florida, as seen here (http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/15329122.htm).
That's my point. If he drives the Marlins into the ground, to the point where they are playing in front of 900 people a night, MLB will have no recourse but to move the team, which is his real agenda.

soxinem1

08-28-2006, 05:47 PM

Why would they hire Keith Moreland?

I was being truthfully sarcastic.

Because they have swung and missed at their picks for MGR the last, oh, 20 years. Might as well keep up the mediocrity.

I thought of putting it in teal, but they may just very well hire some dead ***.

If his story ever goes Hollywood, then:

http://www.cantstopthebleeding.com/img/loria0412.jpg

can be played by:

http://www.movieprop.com/tvandmovie/reviews/secretofmysuccessvira.jpg

gobears1987

08-28-2006, 07:48 PM

Loria = Rachel Phelps

What a ****ing douchebag.

gobears1987

08-28-2006, 07:50 PM

That's my point. If he drives the Marlins into the ground, to the point where they are playing in front of 900 people a night, MLB will have no recourse but to move the team, which is his real agenda.Totally opposite the move Phelps tried in Major League. This time the owner wants out of Florida.

What will it take for Bud the tool Selig to force Loria to sell?

caulfield12

08-28-2006, 08:44 PM

Owners (and Selig has always acted more like one than a commish) always protect each other's financial self-interests....they're not going to do anything that costs him money, any more than they are going to force David Glass to spend his revenue sharing money, although all signs in KC are now much more positive. They've hired four new front office/scouting/development people, which will definitely pay off 3-5 years down the line.

Same thing with the Pirates, except they almost always spend money badly on FA's.

buehrle4cy05

08-28-2006, 08:47 PM

Man, if I was a prospective owner, I'd jump all over the Marlins. I'd do everything in my power to build a new stadium just in time for the Marlins to become a really good team a few years down the road.

HotelWhiteSox

08-28-2006, 08:55 PM

http://www.progressiveboink.com/dugout/archive/jon69.html

http://img172.imageshack.us/img172/7268/flamx8.jpg

:rolling:

caulfield12

08-28-2006, 09:08 PM

Marlins are on their way to another win against the Brew Crew.

Up 3-2 and batting in the bottom of the 8th.

"His name is Dan Uggla..." 4-2 smash into upper deck in LF.

Wow, they could be down only 2 games to Cincy if they lose tonight on the Left Coast.

They could be first team in 20 plus years to have three rookies with over 20 homers...Uggla, Jacobs and Willingham. Not to mention young Hanley Ramirez, perhaps the best of the group. And don't look now, but M. Olivo at .284, 14, 47. Very similar to AJ's numbers, although I would still rather have AJ, obviously.

gobears1987

08-28-2006, 10:50 PM

http://www.progressiveboink.com/dugout/archive/jon69.html

http://img172.imageshack.us/img172/7268/flamx8.jpg

:rolling:
Wow he does look like Newman in that picture.

gbergman

08-29-2006, 12:28 AM

Loria just looks like a scumbag if i've ever seen one

voodoochile

08-29-2006, 12:40 AM

What an *******. He wants this team to fail at all costs. Miserable swine.

Based on what evidence other than this debacle?

He's won two WS titles in a decade or whatever. Seems to me he likes to win. I'm not defending this particular incident, but saying he not only doesn't care about winning but actually is trying to lose seems way out of touch with his history to date.

TheOldRoman

08-29-2006, 12:51 AM

Based on what evidence other than this debacle?

He's won two WS titles in a decade or whatever. Seems to me he likes to win. I'm not defending this particular incident, but saying he not only doesn't care about winning but actually is trying to lose seems way out of touch with his history to date. Wayne Huizinga owned the Marlins in 97 when they won the title. In 98 or 99 he sold them to John Henry. Loria still owned the Expos.
Loria drove them into the ground, and then sold them back to MLB at a profit (some believe that Selig sent Loria to Montreal to kill of baseball there). He then wanted to buy another team. Loria threatened MLB that he would go to congress with "classified" info, so the owners gave in to shut him up. MLB orchestrated a deal in which he bought the Marlins from Henry and Henry bought the Red Sox before the 03 season, and MLB even loaned him the money to buy the Marlins.

Loria won a world series title in his first year in Florida. He was in the right place at the right time, and did nothing to win the title (other than fire Torborg and hire McKeon). About the only good thing you can say about him is that he apparently hired good baseball people.

I also believe that he wants to "kill off" the Marlins and move them elsewhere in the next few years. Even if he does get a stadium deal in Florida, he is positioning himself to be cheap. He threatened that "the more money WE have to chip in for the park, the less money we can spend on payroll". That means that after crying broke while collecting $25mil in payments, with a $15mil payroll, and saying "we can't spend money because of the stadium", he is ready to throw another team with a $40mil payroll out there a year or two after he gets the taxpayers to build him his palace. As it is now, things aren't even close to getting done in Florida. I would say without a doubt that they will be moved, but there aren't really any other halfway decent markets.

voodoochile

08-29-2006, 12:58 AM

Wayne Huizinga owned the Marlins in 97 when they won the title. In 98 or 99 he sold them to John Henry. Loria still owned the Expos.
Loria drove them into the ground, and then sold them back to MLB at a profit (some believe that Selig sent Loria to Montreal to kill of baseball there). He then wanted to buy another team. Loria threatened MLB that he would go to congress with "classified" info, so the owners gave in to shut him up. MLB orchestrated a deal in which he bought the Marlins from Henry and Henry bought the Red Sox before the 03 season, and MLB even loaned him the money to buy the Marlins.

Loria won a world series title in his first year in Florida. He was in the right place at the right time, and did nothing to win the title (other than fire Torborg and hire McKeon). About the only good thing you can say about him is that he apparently hired good baseball people.
I stand corrected...

All of those facts sound right in my current state of inebriation... I got nothing...