Obviously, but several of us are curious about your specific mindset. We are just incredulous that anyone who has any modicum of intelligence could be taken in by Nancy's story.

Quoting: Menow 20098721

Um okay.. this gonna be a long reply..

Im basically a regular intelligent, curious human. Specifically I initially was interested in anti-gravity tech. or the free-energy stuff... Invariably came across the alien-presence, UFOs, CCs, prophets, conspiracies and finally the 2012 Hype. Curious as we are, I went into the jungle to search for the truth, if any. What is left, is what most of these alternative-news contain: bits of truth in a jungle of BS (HS).

Then some day I came across ZT (Dont remember how exactly). A rubbish html website with some crazy stuff written in it.An old woman claims to be in contact with some aliens and they seem to be giving her a lot of information, several thousand sites in fact. Whats written in it? Seemingly unrelated and disorganized at first a structure became obvious over time and claims began to support each other, seemingly explaining a lot of questions:

What are the aliens doing here?Why do the UFOs appear as they do, and why is the government having a certain stance to it?Why are aliens portrayed in the media in a certain way, and what is the general mindest about extra-terrestrial life?

Then these more "spiritual" questions:

Is there something as an "awakening" going on, as seemingly hinted by many individual sources? What could our spiritual-situation may be? And is there a something as a soul?

Finally,

Are there earth-changes going on? The weather seems getting unpredictable?Are earthquakes on the increase or volcanoes waking up? Could this be related?

And Nancy of course provided answers to all these questions that many of us asked themselves when they came across the conspiracy theories.

Facts are constantly bended to dramatisize the situation to keep the believers in the constant belief that they are expecting what is to be expected. The USGS was claimed to be wildy downgrading, NASA claimed to be doctoring, all to have nothing but PX on the stage.

Yes it seems like a obvious-horseshit from this perspective, however this goes deeper. People ignore these matters if they percept enough correlation elsewhere (her alleged ZT accuracy which is no accuracy at all) and feel enough comfortable with the overall theories.)

(BTW: did you read the "when prophecy fails" entry on wikipedia? Thats basically what is occuring with her believers. )

What is left now?

Some concepts still relate to reality with me or are considered likely possible, such as "telepathy", that souls exist, the alien-presence, which in my opinion is undeniable nowadays with regular sightings around the world (Yes I think there are genuine sightings with some advanced technology, beside myself having an obvious sighting at local place with a couple of friends which was a personal confirmation for us,that some awakening process seems going on globally, which seems to be related to people getting increasingly aware, intelligent, and striving for a better future,

that cropcircles are an interesting phenomena with seemingly unexplained effects. (Like bent grain, or magnetic particles found in the soil, "apical-node-elongation", although these claims would need to be analysed more closely, [link to www.bltresearch.com] , at best from more sources, anyone?).

that humans could have had contact with extra-terrestrials in the past,

that "earth changes" are seemingly on the increase and common scientific theories seem to falter. (Or does anyone found a explain-it-all as yet? "Global Warming"?

that a lot of charlatans are out there who noticed the potiential of placing baits into these areas to prey on new victims, and its easy to fall for it even if you are an overall intelligent person.

No, they didn't. They required that you steadfastly ignore all rational input from other sources and listen ONLY to Nancy. It's cult-stuff, for sure.

Quoting: Menow 20098721

Rational thinking is just a way of coming to our conclusions and I never really lost it. (Even though it was not "critical enough" for sure.)However Nancy made her "construct" in a way that seems to support rational thinking. Cause and effect. "The totally dramatizised earth changes are due to PX slowing the earths core, causing friction, heating the plates from below, heating the ocean, heating the air, blah blah..."

"The UFO's appear in a certain way to not interfere with the free-will and some other rules, and they are related to an awakening process, gradually increasing to prevent too much influence to the inhabitants of the planets."

For every question there is an answer, so Nancy presents seemingly rational explanations because she knows it is that what the human mind is asking for.

Some big quake over Plate A? Nancy: Plate B crumbles into Plate A, because PX pushes the earths northpole, causing the famous "earth wobble" smashing the plates against each other.

A cropcircle showing a swirl?Nancy: Depicting PX clockwise rotation in relation to Earths rotation as she stated before..

And so on...and so on..

A pile of lies, supporting one another. (Though not truely)

Nancy seemed to be familar with local plate-tectonics, astronomic questions, psychological questions, sociological questions. Could an old woman answer so many questions? For such a long while?

The perfect wolf in sheep's clothing.

So you ignored all of the factual info offered and focused on the moments when people got frustrated and got a bit reactionary? Didn't you see where Nancy repeatedly got nasty herself?

Quoting: Menow 20098721

Not really.. at least I dont have anything directly popping up into my mind regarding factual info that I was aware at that time.

Can you name some highlights? Im sure they'll be worthy to bring up again.

I was aware of Zetasquawk at that time, though they were often defamatory (like many others who ride on the puppy-thing) which Nancy uses to claim they're pushing a bad image of herself..

Quoting: More about Tunnel-Vision 20081569

The "puppy thing" was an unfortunate issue for people to focus on. Yes, she DID suggest that people should kill their pets, but it was just unneeded inflamatory rhetoric from people who were too shallow to see through her story on the technical issues basis.

All that is vague stuff. I'm talking about concrete factual date. Nancy's story is completely devoid of hard facts. It's just outright lies, one after the other...

Quoting: Menow 20098721

Um. Thats a little too simplistic in my mind. Afterall Nancy's BS comes from her own.. and she needs think about the questions presented to her. There are thoughts of herself that are even going into the right direction, since she needs to do her best because she has to avoid too many lies.

Some of the thoughts about an apocalyptic scenario are quite useful. (Although I guess it was more of an achievment from the TT guys and overall people.)

However saying "one lie after another" is a little unrealistic, its more a set of lies based on bits of truth.

Quoting: More about Tunnel-Vision 20081569

No. All of her astronomical claims were outright fabrications. OBVIOUS ones! NO "bits of truth" there at all. Only those who knew absolutely NOTHING about astronomy and steadfastly refuses to consult a real astronomer (because they are all in on the coverup) would believe them.

The bits of truth form the bait.Lies are applied over the bait, expanding the (w)hole while supporting each other.

Keep piling and you have your "horseshit"

Quoting: More about Tunnel-Vision 20081569

Yes, but each original bit was pure horseshit. It was just that each time Nancy would make a claim, it would be disproven by "debunkers", but all Nancy's believers were brainwashed in to discounting anything which ran counter to what Nancy said. Then, Nancy would declare each subsequent tidbit of hers to have been "proven" and built on that. It was actually quite ingenious, IMO.

You lost me, except where there is clearly an emotional aspect of how people got sucked into Nancy's story. That is certainly true.

Quoting: Menow 20098721

;)

Quoting: More about Tunnel-Vision 20081569

"A pile of lies, supporting one another..." Absolutely agreed. Thanks for taking time to respond. I guess it's clear that you, too, just didn't read the countering information which constantly proved Nancy wrong. In the end, I think it was the belief in a grand conspiracy which was the prime factor in keeping people sucked in to Nancy's story. Agreed?

Quoting: Menow 18943200

Um. Im amazed at the conclusions being drawn here....(and the Kindergarten that lately seems to be taking over again in my mind.)

You like matters simple, don't you? (Im drawing this conclusion because you seem to be demanding absolute answeres, i.e. you want me to agree to YOUR spin on things.)

As I said before, I did read "countering information", however it was full of ego and badmouthing which overall killed the credibility for myself, also partly because I felt more comfortable with the "grand conspiracy" as you prefer to call it which actually is a general trend/hype that we're experiencing atm.

And I still say that there is a basis in Nancy's claims that correlate with reality: I.E:The alien presence is real,the "STO/undecided/STS" concepts apply more or less,there are a lot of hints about "global catastrophes" from a lot of sources (which doesn't mean that they needs to be right or have any solid basis),such as stuff is happening that seem to be lacking answers like the rapidly changing weather or melting ice caps (or do you/or anyone have an explanation for it since Global Warming seems to fail with its predictions?).

Don't expect me to agree about,

"It was just that each time Nancy would make a claim, it would be disproven by "debunkers", but all Nancy's believers were brainwashed in to discounting anything which ran counter to what Nancy said. "

because from my experience this is simply not true.

I'd still like to actually see some "constant countering information" BEING POINTED OUT other than rough approximations (like pointing to this thread) or ZetaSquawk which were mentioned already, because I still think this can be useful as a lot of other people are reading these threads.

BTW: I didn't wrote "my story" exclusively for you, but I adressed it because an occasion was presented, just as a sidenote in case this wasn't clear from the start.

BTW #2: The way that "Billy Madison" is treated is the same way that Nancy or the "believers" are being treated over here (or am I wrong?).

You don't seem to be "debunking" him to actually help him, instead it seems you guys just want to be the "right ones"...(if this is the case, you are the actual losers in my mind... just as another sidenote).

If you're wondering if I ate a beehive per breakfast or you're pissed of why Im telling my opinion, don't mind as I dont care about that since Im only interested that everyone of us prospers. Debunkers and Believers.

I dont see any reason (in matters of productivity) to throw insults or other nonsense other than embracing your own ego's which you're doing again in my mind.

Do we really need stereotype-thinking? I doubt.

Im not expecting perfection or any change at all, however I think its honorable to reconsider ourselves sometimes...

This latest gaffe is right up there with her rather embarrassing claims that a photo of a flying kite was, in actuality, "Planet X" and its associated "moon swirls." The "Zetas" told her that's what it was and she ran with it. How humiliating it must have been for her to concede that it was, indeed, nothing more than a kite and tail.

\Um. Im amazed at the conclusions being drawn here....(and the Kindergarten that lately seems to be taking over again in my mind.)

You like matters simple, don't you? (Im drawing this conclusion because you seem to be demanding absolute answeres, i.e. you want me to agree to YOUR spin on things.)

As I said before, I did read "countering information", however it was full of ego and badmouthing which overall killed the credibility for myself, also partly because I felt more comfortable with the "grand conspiracy" as you prefer to call it which actually is a general trend/hype that we're experiencing atm.

Quoting: More about Tunnel-vision 20777958

Nancy got you to accept things on HER terms- ie: "Does NASA lie?"- that sort of thing. The "badmouthing" was because what Nancy was saying was so absurd- so easily disproven- so ridiculously wrong... You and Nancy's other followers, on the other hand, had allowed Nancy to drag you "off-center" to where you imagined there was an actual debate going on- as if there was some actual doubt as to whether what Nancy was saying was true. There wasn't- not to anyone who knew the first thing about astronomy.

And I still say that there is a basis in Nancy's claims that correlate with reality: I.E:The alien presence is real,the "STO/undecided/STS" concepts apply more or less,

Quoting: More about Tunnel-vision 20777958

"Apply"? How I see them having been "applied" was in sucking in those who would actually see themselves as "better than others". Think about it. "STO" is actually a spiritual trap, IMO.

there are a lot of hints about "global catastrophes" from a lot of sources (which doesn't mean that they needs to be right or have any solid basis),such as stuff is happening that seem to be lacking answers like the rapidly changing weather or melting ice caps (or do you/or anyone have an explanation for it since Global Warming seems to fail with its predictions?).

Quoting: More about Tunnel-vision 20777958

You seem to fail to understand that Nancy DRASTICALLY spun stories about that sort of thing. She actually LED the internet trend about much of this. There are MANY, MANY ideas about PX and related things which absolutely originated with Nancy Lieder, or whatever "Zetas" is. MUCH of what you think were "other sources" of such things were actually echoes of what Nancy had put out. Don't underestimate the 'conspiracy' involved in what Nancy has done.

Don't expect me to agree about,

"It was just that each time Nancy would make a claim, it would be disproven by "debunkers", but all Nancy's believers were brainwashed in to discounting anything which ran counter to what Nancy said. "

because from my experience this is simply not true.

Quoting: More about Tunnel-vision 20777958

Heh. I watched it happen for 15 years- over and over and over again. It's absolutely true. If not- why did you believe that PX had been imaged at Nancy's coordinates, entering the Solar system in 2001-2002?

I'd still like to actually see some "constant countering information" BEING POINTED OUT other than rough approximations (like pointing to this thread) or ZetaSquawk which were mentioned already, because I still think this can be useful as a lot of other people are reading these threads.

Quoting: More about Tunnel-vision 20777958

A lot of it doesn't even exist any more. The work of "IMOpenminded" and Sarah Macintyre, for example. The Wayback has archives of some of it. This is OOOLLD news!

BTW: I didn't wrote "my story" exclusively for you, but I adressed it because an occasion was presented, just as a sidenote in case this wasn't clear from the start.

BTW #2: The way that "Billy Madison" is treated is the same way that Nancy or the "believers" are being treated over here (or am I wrong?).

Quoting: More about Tunnel-vision 20777958

"Treated"? He is repeating inane crapola from Nancy and Zetatalk. It's so wrong it's stupid. The fact that you think it is reasonable and should not be ridiculed speaks volumes. That's exactly what it deserves. It's pure RUBBISH!

You don't seem to be "debunking" him to actually help him, instead it seems you guys just want to be the "right ones"...(if this is the case, you are the actual losers in my mind... just as another sidenote).

Quoting: More about Tunnel-vision 20777958

He is repeating OBVIOUS craplola as if it has merit. It's ridiculous nonsense. There is no other way to put it. He believes what NANCY HAS TOLD HIM- nothing more.

If you're wondering if I ate a beehive per breakfast or you're pissed of why Im telling my opinion, don't mind as I dont care about that since Im only interested that everyone of us prospers. Debunkers and Believers.

Quoting: More about Tunnel-vision 20777958

That's so "STO" of you. Heh...

I dont see any reason (in matters of productivity) to throw insults or other nonsense other than embracing your own ego's which you're doing again in my mind.

Quoting: More about Tunnel-vision 20777958

I think you mistake harsh truth as "insults".

Do we really need stereotype-thinking? I doubt.

Quoting: More about Tunnel-vision 20777958

Just because certain things are obviously true, that doesn't make them "stereotypes".

Im not expecting perfection or any change at all, however I think its honorable to reconsider ourselves sometimes...

Just some thought. Cya on occasion..

Quoting: More about Tunnel-vision 20777958

I think you are still unaware of just how far Nancy had dragged you over to "her" way of thinking. Yet, you seem to understand just how false what she said was. It was a streaming pile of lies and not much more.

I should mention that many other 'channelled' sources have spoken about the same type of thing over the last 20 years. (By the way... I don't care about Nancy's denial of this- she is "CHANNELLING",IMO. the reason for all these various sources saying similar things is not understood by me, but there has clearly been an intentional "push" on some of these ideas.

I'd still like to actually see some "constant countering information" BEING POINTED OUT other than rough approximations (like pointing to this thread)

Quoting: More about Tunnel-vision 20777958

The earth's not stopped in orbit--proven and pointed out again and again and again here.

The earth's axis is not wobbling--proven and pointed out again and again and again.

Indonesia: not underwater.

Pole shift 2003--didn't happen.

2012 too far in the future for the pole shift---wrong again.

And that's just the tip of the iceberg.

Quoting: Anonymous Coward 13806508

Um.. I know.. actually I wanted to see some links (analysis) etc. for those who still have doubts in case this wasn't obvious.

The tip of the ZT-iceberg is being debunked. Nothing more, nothing less. Its not though that each claim (all 40.000 sites of useless chatter) were debunked. Not true, but hey you didn't claimed this, did you? :)

Nancy mistakes the Goodyear Blimp for a UFO over the 2012 Summer Olympics

Cool.. I'll include that into the doc on occasion if you guys don't mind.

Nancy got you to accept things on HER terms- ie: "Does NASA lie?"- that sort of thing. The "badmouthing" was because what Nancy was saying was so absurd- so easily disproven- so ridiculously wrong... You and Nancy's other followers, on the other hand, had allowed Nancy to drag you "off-center" to where you imagined there was an actual debate going on- as if there was some actual doubt as to whether what Nancy was saying was true. There wasn't- not to anyone who knew the first thing about astronomy.

Quoting: Menow 18943200

Um. Question: Do you believe that NASA, or the governments are 100% honest to their citizens?Do you really believe they'd care about us in a case of a pending disaster that would wipe out their status?

If your answer is yes, than you're way too naive in my mind, but I guess you're answer isn't that.

From this perspective of view, "Does NASA lie" or "Do the governments lie" my answer on both would YES, most likely, though surely not in the dimensions that Nancy wants us to believe because stuff like a "rouge planet in the solar sytem" couldn't be hidden like that, I guess we agree about that now.

"Apply"? How I see them having been "applied" was in sucking in those who would actually see themselves as "better than others". Think about it. "STO" is actually a spiritual trap, IMO.

Quoting: Menow 18943200

I guess you're mixing naive people with sophisticated people here. I'd however like to hear your opinion why you think "STO is actually a spiritual trap" and why you percieve that they think they're better than others?

there are a lot of hints about "global catastrophes" from a lot of sources (which doesn't mean that they needs to be right or have any solid basis),such as stuff is happening that seem to be lacking answers like the rapidly changing weather or melting ice caps (or do you/or anyone have an explanation for it since Global Warming seems to fail with its predictions?).

Quoting: More about Tunnel-vision 20777958

You seem to fail to understand that Nancy DRASTICALLY spun stories about that sort of thing. She actually LED the internet trend about much of this. There are MANY, MANY ideas about PX and related things which absolutely originated with Nancy Lieder, or whatever "Zetas" is. MUCH of what you think were "other sources" of such things were actually echoes of what Nancy had put out. Don't underestimate the 'conspiracy' involved in what Nancy has done.

Quoting: Menow 18943200

To quote myself what I wrote before:Facts are constantly bended to dramatisize the situation to keep the believers in the constant belief that they are expecting what is to be expected. The USGS was claimed to be wildy downgrading, NASA claimed to be doctoring, all to have nothing but PX on the stage.

As to wether she led the trend I have a different opinion.ZT is not that popular that "all echoes" can be traced back to Nancy...It seems even you agree about this since you later stated:

I should mention that many other 'channelled' sources have spoken about the same type of thing over the last 20 years. (By the way... I don't care about Nancy's denial of this- she is "CHANNELLING",IMO. the reason for all these various sources saying similar things is not understood by me, but there has clearly been an intentional "push" on some of these ideas.

Quoting: Menow 18943200

Heh. I watched it happen for 15 years- over and over and over again. It's absolutely true. If not- why did you believe that PX had been imaged at Nancy's coordinates, entering the Solar system in 2001-2002?

Quoting: Menow 18943200

I can understand your frustration going on for 15 years, however what is beind debunked is the top of the pile. (A few examples were named as yet.)As to wether PX had been imaged at Nancy's coordinates I need to attest that I really didn't care much about these when I was a believer.Im not familiar with astronomy and found "correlation" elsewhere. (Which certainly was naive from myself)

When inuit-people say that the Sun is rising differently than it did for decades, there's a reason for me to believe that they might be onto something.. to name one.

A lot of it doesn't even exist any more. The work of "IMOpenminded" and Sarah Macintyre, for example. The Wayback has archives of some of it. This is OOOLLD news!

Quoting: Menow 18943200

Never heared of these... (I came across ZT roughly two n a half years ago), however I thank you for pointing these out as I will check them on occasion.

"Treated"? He is repeating inane crapola from Nancy and Zetatalk. It's so wrong it's stupid. The fact that you think it is reasonable and should not be ridiculed speaks volumes. That's exactly what it deserves. It's pure RUBBISH!

He is repeating OBVIOUS craplola as if it has merit. It's ridiculous nonsense. There is no other way to put it. He believes what NANCY HAS TOLD HIM- nothing more.

Quoting: Menow 18943200

Its one thing to ridicule what someone claims, but another to insult someone personally.Billy might just has not been there where you or others have been in certain matters, so in my mind its counter-productive to attack someone personally for something that is related to content.

Two pairs of shoes in my opinion. Substance and state.

I dont see any reason (in matters of productivity) to throw insults or other nonsense other than embracing your own ego's which you're doing again in my mind.

Quoting: More about Tunnel-vision 20777958

I think you mistake harsh truth as "insults".

Quoting: Menow 18943200

See above.

Just because certain things are obviously true, that doesn't make them "stereotypes".

Quoting: Menow 18943200

I was on the verge of being called a "its all-good guy" by yourself... so much about stereotypes.

I think you are still unaware of just how far Nancy had dragged you over to "her" way of thinking. Yet, you seem to understand just how false what she said was. It was a streaming pile of lies and not much more.

I should mention that many other 'channelled' sources have spoken about the same type of thing over the last 20 years. (By the way... I don't care about Nancy's denial of this- she is "CHANNELLING",IMO. the reason for all these various sources saying similar things is not understood by me, but there has clearly been an intentional "push" on some of these ideas.

Quoting: Menow 18943200

As to how aware or unaware I am of certain matters I don't need to detail, however I'd like to hear why you think im "still unaware of just how far Nancy had dragged me over to "her" way of thinking"... - can you precise, can you argue with some examples?

Yes it is a streaming (steaming) pile of lies (shit), based on bits of truth in my opinion.

Regarding "Channeling", I have a different opinion:In my mind Nancy is not a channeler but merely a manipulator. At least I don't understand why simple manipulation should be called "Channeling"... And why there is a "push" in that direction, I don't know either, but I suspect that there is some truth at base, somewhere.

Um.. I know.. actually I wanted to see some links (analysis) etc. for those who still have doubts in case this wasn't obvious.

The tip of the ZT-iceberg is being debunked. Nothing more, nothing less.

Quoting: More about Tunnel-vision 20809671

You want debunkers to start all over again and debunk each of Nancy's claims AGAIN. Sorry- not gonna happen. It's already been done. Nancy has "dragged you" and others to her side of the argument by pounding on bits like "sun/moon out of place". It's actually a totally absurd claim, but she has a bunch of people thinking it might be true and that there is an actual debate about it. There isn't. If Earth was actually "wobbling" to the extent Nancy claims, there would be few Human survivors remaining on Earth RIGHT NOW. Sheesh!

This latest gaffe is right up there with her rather embarrassing claims that a photo of a flying kite was, in actuality, "Planet X" and its associated "moon swirls." The "Zetas" told her that's what it was and she ran with it. How humiliating it must have been for her to concede that it was, indeed, nothing more than a kite and tail.

Quoting: Circuit Breaker

So I've been listening to this series: here is the message in a nutshell:

1. Global Cataclysms begin September 22.

2. There will be THREE precursor cataclysms before the BIG one.

3. No one will survive - either in underground bunkers, or submarines, or ANYWHERE.

4. The only hope we have is to unite as a civilization in consciousness.

5. We must enter the "laser of transition" where our individuality and present crystaline body structures will be destroyed - but our consciousness will be "transitioned" to the highest level of the material world. They then show (in another video) where this is symbolized by the reclining man in Mayan culture holding a plate over his chest.

Funny, a show I watched last night said that they used to place the beating heart of freshly killed sacrificial victims on that "plate".

Nancy got you to accept things on HER terms- ie: "Does NASA lie?"- that sort of thing. The "badmouthing" was because what Nancy was saying was so absurd- so easily disproven- so ridiculously wrong... You and Nancy's other followers, on the other hand, had allowed Nancy to drag you "off-center" to where you imagined there was an actual debate going on- as if there was some actual doubt as to whether what Nancy was saying was true. There wasn't- not to anyone who knew the first thing about astronomy.

Quoting: Menow 18943200

Um. Question: Do you believe that NASA, or the governments are 100% honest to their citizens?Do you really believe they'd care about us in a case of a pending disaster that would wipe out their status?

Quoting: More about Tunnel-vision 20809671

Thin end of the wedge argument. Nothing is 100% in the political realm. You have bought into a science-fiction story. It's beside the point. The \items Nancy has used to "prove" a coverup have been absurdly spun and misrepresented. NANCY is the waaaayyyy more obvious, blatant and shameless liar in this scenario. What don't you GET about that?

If your answer is yes, than you're way too naive in my mind, but I guess you're answer isn't that.

From this perspective of view, "Does NASA lie" or "Do the governments lie" my answer on both would YES, most likely, though surely not in the dimensions that Nancy wants us to believe because stuff like a "rouge planet in the solar sytem" couldn't be hidden like that, I guess we agree about that now.

"Apply"? How I see them having been "applied" was in sucking in those who would actually see themselves as "better than others". Think about it. "STO" is actually a spiritual trap, IMO.

Quoting: Menow 18943200

I guess you're mixing naive people with sophisticated people here. I'd however like to hear your opinion why you think "STO is actually a spiritual trap" and why you percieve that they think they're better than others?

Quoting: More about Tunnel-vision 20809671

You haven't read all the "attacks" launched by Nancy and her minions at debunkers for simply being allegedly "STS"? The judgement and indictment of others originated from NANCY'S camp!

there are a lot of hints about "global catastrophes" from a lot of sources (which doesn't mean that they needs to be right or have any solid basis),such as stuff is happening that seem to be lacking answers like the rapidly changing weather or melting ice caps (or do you/or anyone have an explanation for it since Global Warming seems to fail with its predictions?).

Quoting: More about Tunnel-vision 20777958

You seem to fail to understand that Nancy DRASTICALLY spun stories about that sort of thing. She actually LED the internet trend about much of this. There are MANY, MANY ideas about PX and related things which absolutely originated with Nancy Lieder, or whatever "Zetas" is. MUCH of what you think were "other sources" of such things were actually echoes of what Nancy had put out. Don't underestimate the 'conspiracy' involved in what Nancy has done.

Quoting: Menow 18943200

To quote myself what I wrote before:Facts are constantly bended to dramatisize the situation to keep the believers in the constant belief that they are expecting what is to be expected. The USGS was claimed to be wildy downgrading, NASA claimed to be doctoring, all to have nothing but PX on the stage.

As to wether she led the trend I have a different opinion.ZT is not that popular that "all echoes" can be traced back to Nancy...It seems even you agree about this since you later stated:

I should mention that many other 'channelled' sources have spoken about the same type of thing over the last 20 years. (By the way... I don't care about Nancy's denial of this- she is "CHANNELLING",IMO. the reason for all these various sources saying similar things is not understood by me, but there has clearly been an intentional "push" on some of these ideas.

Quoting: Menow 18943200

Heh. I watched it happen for 15 years- over and over and over again. It's absolutely true. If not- why did you believe that PX had been imaged at Nancy's coordinates, entering the Solar system in 2001-2002?

Quoting: Menow 18943200

I can understand your frustration going on for 15 years, however what is beind debunked is the top of the pile. (A few examples were named as yet.)As to wether PX had been imaged at Nancy's coordinates I need to attest that I really didn't care much about these when I was a believer.Im not familiar with astronomy and found "correlation" elsewhere. (Which certainly was naive from myself)

Quoting: More about Tunnel-vision 20809671

Yes, you found what you though of as "correlation". This means you saw Nancy's pile of false claims as supported. In fact, Nancy's claims about her object being imaged, incoming, were total fabrications. Period.

When inuit-people say that the Sun is rising differently than it did for decades, there's a reason for me to believe that they might be onto something.. to name one.

Quoting: More about Tunnel-vision 20809671

Except that those people were just stupidly wrong. You came to imagine that such things were reasonable to believe were true. They are NOT reasonable. It's utter nonsense.

A lot of it doesn't even exist any more. The work of "IMOpenminded" and Sarah Macintyre, for example. The Wayback has archives of some of it. This is OOOLLD news!

Quoting: Menow 18943200

Never heared of these... (I came across ZT roughly two n a half years ago), however I thank you for pointing these out as I will check them on occasion.

Quoting: More about Tunnel-vision 20809671

You are way to new at all this to understand the big picture of Nancy's hoax.

"Treated"? He is repeating inane crapola from Nancy and Zetatalk. It's so wrong it's stupid. The fact that you think it is reasonable and should not be ridiculed speaks volumes. That's exactly what it deserves. It's pure RUBBISH!

He is repeating OBVIOUS craplola as if it has merit. It's ridiculous nonsense. There is no other way to put it. He believes what NANCY HAS TOLD HIM- nothing more.

Quoting: Menow 18943200

Its one thing to ridicule what someone claims, but another to insult someone personally.Billy might just has not been there where you or others have been in certain matters, so in my mind its counter-productive to attack someone personally for something that is related to content.

Two pairs of shoes in my opinion. Substance and state.

Quoting: More about Tunnel-vision 20809671

It comes to a point where a person is being obviously WILLFULLY ignorant. Either they are terminally stupid or are trolling. We see it over and over and over again in this whole "Nibiru" area. That's just the way it is.

I dont see any reason (in matters of productivity) to throw insults or other nonsense other than embracing your own ego's which you're doing again in my mind.

Quoting: More about Tunnel-vision 20777958

I think you mistake harsh truth as "insults".

Quoting: Menow 18943200

See above.

Just because certain things are obviously true, that doesn't make them "stereotypes".

Quoting: Menow 18943200

I was on the verge of being called a "its all-good guy" by yourself... so much about stereotypes.

Quoting: More about Tunnel-vision 20809671

You are being really tedious. Nancy Lieder has spun a tall tale. Some gullible people have bought into it regardless of LOTS of proof to the contrary. That's the bottom line.

I think you are still unaware of just how far Nancy had dragged you over to "her" way of thinking. Yet, you seem to understand just how false what she said was. It was a streaming pile of lies and not much more.

I should mention that many other 'channelled' sources have spoken about the same type of thing over the last 20 years. (By the way... I don't care about Nancy's denial of this- she is "CHANNELLING",IMO. the reason for all these various sources saying similar things is not understood by me, but there has clearly been an intentional "push" on some of these ideas.

Quoting: Menow 18943200

As to how aware or unaware I am of certain matters I don't need to detail, however I'd like to hear why you think im "still unaware of just how far Nancy had dragged me over to "her" way of thinking"... - can you precise, can you argue with some examples?

Yes it is a streaming (steaming) pile of lies (shit), based on bits of truth in my opinion.

Regarding "Channeling", I have a different opinion:In my mind Nancy is not a channeler but merely a manipulator. At least I don't understand why simple manipulation should be called "Channeling"... And why there is a "push" in that direction, I don't know either, but I suspect that there is some truth at base, somewhere.

Btw, I was close to the stadium and there only was a blimp in the air. There were so many people in that stadium, they for sure wouldn`t have missed an UFO.

It looks like a blimp, behaves like a blimp: it is a blimp.

It`s funny how much ridiculous claims you can read on strange pages. It was the goodyear blimp.

Quoting: John 12664809

Right, but there will be a group of people who will think you are just part of the coverup. It has been exactly like that from the beginning of this, which was when Nancy Lieder invaded sci.astro and started pushing her claims there. As soon as astronomers there started saying she was wrong, she began spinning that into a "coverup" of her information. That is the core of how Nancy's hoax gained power and momentum, IMO.

Regarding "Channeling", I have a different opinion:In my mind Nancy is not a channeler but merely a manipulator. At least I don't understand why simple manipulation should be called "Channeling"... And why there is a "push" in that direction, I don't know either, but I suspect that there is some truth at base, somewhere.

Quoting: More about Tunnel-vision 20809671

The fact that there ismanipulation taking place is beside the point. I think that what Nancy is doing is "channelling" because I am familiar with the phenomenon and I know what it looks like. What Nancy is doing is what it looks like.

Regarding "Channeling", I have a different opinion:In my mind Nancy is not a channeler but merely a manipulator. At least I don't understand why simple manipulation should be called "Channeling"... And why there is a "push" in that direction, I don't know either, but I suspect that there is some truth at base, somewhere.

Quoting: More about Tunnel-vision 20809671

The fact that there ismanipulation taking place is beside the point. I think that what Nancy is doing is "channelling" because I am familiar with the phenomenon and I know what it looks like. What Nancy is doing is what it looks like.

Quoting: Menow 18943200

>> What Nancy is doing is what it looks like.

I've actually seen her doing it in PERSON, and yes, it has all the earmarks of "channeling".

What remains to be asked, is "where" are those voices originating? Malevolent (or at the very least "mischevous") spirits? Aliens? (Maybe the Zetas are real, and maybe they really ARE the "voices in her head") or Black Ops doing it through an implant and advanced technology?

Clearly the message is distorted in order to confuse and take our "sniffing dogs" off the scent.

The important question is less about whether or not it's "true" - as a WHOLE, the ZetaTalk saga clearly is not, but that does NOT mean that it is devoid of a DEADLY SERIOUS AGENDA.

And that is where I and the "debunkers" clearly part company.

If ZetaTalk itself is a half-baked, almost "tongue-in-cheek" contrived "project" undertaken as part of a much larger collection of dis-information efforts on the part of TPTB, the question is WHAT are they trying to COVER UP???

That's the question - but clearly TPTB don't aschew indulging in a little "fun" along the way - at "our" expense of course ...

Regarding "Channeling", I have a different opinion:In my mind Nancy is not a channeler but merely a manipulator. At least I don't understand why simple manipulation should be called "Channeling"... And why there is a "push" in that direction, I don't know either, but I suspect that there is some truth at base, somewhere.

Quoting: More about Tunnel-vision 20809671

The fact that there ismanipulation taking place is beside the point. I think that what Nancy is doing is "channelling" because I am familiar with the phenomenon and I know what it looks like. What Nancy is doing is what it looks like.

Quoting: Menow 18943200

>> What Nancy is doing is what it looks like.

I've actually seen her doing it in PERSON, and yes, it has all the earmarks of "channeling".

What remains to be asked, is "where" are those voices originating? Malevolent (or at the very least "mischevous") spirits? Aliens? (Maybe the Zetas are real, and maybe they really ARE the "voices in her head") or Black Ops doing it through an implant and advanced technology?

Quoting: **ZetaMax**

I can't answer that.

Clearly the message is distorted in order to confuse and take our "sniffing dogs" off the scent.

Quoting: **ZetaMax**

No, that is not "clearly" factual.

The important question is less about whether or not it's "true" - as a WHOLE, the ZetaTalk saga clearly is not, but that does NOT mean that it is devoid of a DEADLY SERIOUS AGENDA.

Quoting: **ZetaMax**

Huh? Of course it doesn't mean that. You aren't making a lot of sense.

And that is where I and the "debunkers" clearly part company.

Quoting: **ZetaMax**

We parted company, years ago, in terms of honesty and forthrightness.

If ZetaTalk itself is a half-baked, almost "tongue-in-cheek" contrived "project" undertaken as part of a much larger collection of dis-information efforts on the part of TPTB, the question is WHAT are they trying to COVER UP???

Quoting: **ZetaMax**

Why must it be to "cover up" anything?

That's the question - but clearly TPTB don't aschew indulging in a little "fun" along the way - at "our" expense of course ...

They clearly find our gropings in the dark, to be quite "humorous".

My message to them => "What goes around - comes around."

Quoting: **ZetaMax**

I think you ascribe too much ultimate power to what YOU see as the "TPTB". For someone who claims to have studied in the spiritual realms, you seem to be lacking much in the way of deeper insights.

Comment by Fra. Iens 6 hours agoHello all!I don't want to be a debunker in your eyes. I respect Nancy and Zetas.But if this a UFO then where is GoodYear blimp?And why there are panoramic videos from the angle of this UFO?Regards,Steve.

He was duly chastised for being "mindless":

Comment by Nancy Lieder 6 hours ago@FraWhat! Have you even LOOKED at that blimp video? Panoramic views? SkyNews takes vids from their chopper! Heavens, people you have to start thinking! Kick start that brain of yours and stop posting mindless stuff like this, really!Blimp

Of course, she didn't answer his pertinent question of "But if this a UFO then where is GoodYear blimp?"

Funny how thousands of people were in attendance, not to mention the media, and not ONE report by ANYONE of a UFO being seen ANYWHERE around the Olympics. It's amazing that out of all the video shot there, Nancy and her merry band of retards are the ONLY ones to have seen a UFO.

Comment by Fra. Iens 6 hours agoHello all!I don't want to be a debunker in your eyes. I respect Nancy and Zetas.But if this a UFO then where is GoodYear blimp?And why there are panoramic videos from the angle of this UFO?Regards,Steve.

He was duly chastised for being "mindless":

Comment by Nancy Lieder 6 hours ago@FraWhat! Have you even LOOKED at that blimp video? Panoramic views? SkyNews takes vids from their chopper! Heavens, people you have to start thinking! Kick start that brain of yours and stop posting mindless stuff like this, really!Blimp

Of course, she didn't answer his pertinent question of "But if this a UFO then where is GoodYear blimp?"

Comment by Fra. Iens 6 hours agoHello all!I don't want to be a debunker in your eyes. I respect Nancy and Zetas.But if this a UFO then where is GoodYear blimp?And why there are panoramic videos from the angle of this UFO?Regards,Steve.

He was duly chastised for being "mindless":

Comment by Nancy Lieder 6 hours ago@FraWhat! Have you even LOOKED at that blimp video? Panoramic views? SkyNews takes vids from their chopper! Heavens, people you have to start thinking! Kick start that brain of yours and stop posting mindless stuff like this, really!Blimp

Of course, she didn't answer his pertinent question of "But if this a UFO then where is GoodYear blimp?"

Regarding "Channeling", I have a different opinion:In my mind Nancy is not a channeler but merely a manipulator. At least I don't understand why simple manipulation should be called "Channeling"... And why there is a "push" in that direction, I don't know either, but I suspect that there is some truth at base, somewhere.

Quoting: More about Tunnel-vision 20809671

The fact that there ismanipulation taking place is beside the point. I think that what Nancy is doing is "channelling" because I am familiar with the phenomenon and I know what it looks like. What Nancy is doing is what it looks like.

Quoting: Menow 18943200

>> What Nancy is doing is what it looks like.

I've actually seen her doing it in PERSON, and yes, it has all the earmarks of "channeling".

What remains to be asked, is "where" are those voices originating? Malevolent (or at the very least "mischevous") spirits? Aliens? (Maybe the Zetas are real, and maybe they really ARE the "voices in her head") or Black Ops doing it through an implant and advanced technology?

Quoting: **ZetaMax**

I can't answer that.

Clearly the message is distorted in order to confuse and take our "sniffing dogs" off the scent.

Quoting: **ZetaMax**

No, that is not "clearly" factual.

The important question is less about whether or not it's "true" - as a WHOLE, the ZetaTalk saga clearly is not, but that does NOT mean that it is devoid of a DEADLY SERIOUS AGENDA.

Quoting: **ZetaMax**

Huh? Of course it doesn't mean that. You aren't making a lot of sense.

And that is where I and the "debunkers" clearly part company.

Quoting: **ZetaMax**

We parted company, years ago, in terms of honesty and forthrightness.

If ZetaTalk itself is a half-baked, almost "tongue-in-cheek" contrived "project" undertaken as part of a much larger collection of dis-information efforts on the part of TPTB, the question is WHAT are they trying to COVER UP???

Quoting: **ZetaMax**

Why must it be to "cover up" anything?

That's the question - but clearly TPTB don't aschew indulging in a little "fun" along the way - at "our" expense of course ...

They clearly find our gropings in the dark, to be quite "humorous".

My message to them => "What goes around - comes around."

Quoting: **ZetaMax**

I think you ascribe too much ultimate power to what YOU see as the "TPTB". For someone who claims to have studied in the spiritual realms, you seem to be lacking much in the way of deeper insights.

Comment by Fra. Iens 6 hours agoHello all!I don't want to be a debunker in your eyes. I respect Nancy and Zetas.But if this a UFO then where is GoodYear blimp?And why there are panoramic videos from the angle of this UFO?Regards,Steve.

He was duly chastised for being "mindless":

Comment by Nancy Lieder 6 hours ago@FraWhat! Have you even LOOKED at that blimp video? Panoramic views? SkyNews takes vids from their chopper! Heavens, people you have to start thinking! Kick start that brain of yours and stop posting mindless stuff like this, really!Blimp

Of course, she didn't answer his pertinent question of "But if this a UFO then where is GoodYear blimp?"