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So, lets put a more reasonable situation here, If you asked the Arcane for haste, Rage, FF, Blur, G Hero, or pretty much any buff, and they just scoffed at you and ran off and started to do the dungeon saying "I'm not a buff bot, noob! learn to play!" would you be all like "Oh yah, you are so right, I am so wrong to expect you to give me anything, I should totally provide all my own stuff" or would you think the person was being a jerk?

GH comes on planar girds / scrolls, which my melee caries.
Blur comes on gear, which my melee has.
Haste comes in pots and clickies, even wind stand if you have it like my monk splashed melee.
Rage is meh, and it gets over ridden by my melees defensive fighting and bulwark of defense.

You don't need any of those buffs from an arcane, they aren't mandatory for anything and you can get them yourself.

Isn't he/she obligated to heal, even a little? Didn't they take an oath or something? Suppose a fighter joined and didn't fight?

If you don't want to heal, don't be a cleric.

That right there is pure gaming gold!

It was a BYOH group, if you get incapped it's likely your BYOH isn't quite up to scratch, it's also a possibility that healing type classes may not heal you in a pinch.
One of the great things about these groups though is occasionally you can be surprised by the versatility and resourcefulness of players and can be pleasantly surprised by what some toons not of a healing class are capable of.

It might be more fun for YOU. Now I'm not actually antisocial I just get where other people are coming from. Just like some people in this type of thread talk about how fun it is to only Heal and do that "job" really well, there are some people who will Heal but want to also melee or cast DPS.

Everyone has a different POV, don't imply that if its not fun for someone else to play as a team they're doing it "wrong" - there is no "wrong".

Huh? I never said they were 'wrong'. I just said they didn't get it. The same way though I don't 'get' that rogues are meant to be fun even though I know many people who I respect and admire who love them. And anything I say is of course only my POV. That's the point of a forum. Unless I say "<bleh> has said they think <blah>" then anything I type is obviously my POV. It seems to be my day for being misunderstood.

Originally Posted by Karavek

I wee tale to help set the record straight about how I play.

One day I was running Tempest Spine

<snip>

Its these kind of events I have had to witness first hand that tells me its far more then simply an issue with diverging play styles, its a matter of apathy. We have no sense of community and no heart and soul left for anyone outside of our circles. Turbine is the one who brought us down this path, and is the only one who can really change the way the game works to remove this kind of poor behavior by removing any aspect of the game that creates the expectation of another player doing for yours.

<snip>

Its this kind of thing I feel strongly over and feel the need to see stopped from our game at all costs. Id sooner see DDO end then have one more kid be told to kill himself by same d bag who thinks a game is that important.

Good on you Karavek - and I love your writing style You do meet people though who go out of their way to help (like you did here) and that's pretty cool and makes the game something you want to continue cheering for. I wonder if DDO in part is just reflecting general society sometimes when it uses people like this? I don't know how you would stop it. Just doing your part and setting an example is good though.

Its these kind of events I have had to witness first hand that tells me its far more then simply an issue with diverging play styles, its a matter of apathy. We have no sense of community and no heart and soul left for anyone outside of our circles. Turbine is the one who brought us down this path, and is the only one who can really change the way the game works to remove this kind of poor behavior by removing any aspect of the game that creates the expectation of another player doing for yours.

I know I kind of shouldn't comment on anything else than the attitude ... which I have no english word strong enought to describe... Verbaly abusing someone (especially a young fella) in a game doesn't really need to be commented anyway, it should be auto-ban from the whole internet.

I often write/speak as someone who neglect reality to get to my point because it's the only way I found to stand apart being superficial and not honest. Now when it comes to DDO's playerbase, I just wanna get straight to the point. I don't know what happened in the lifespan of the game or at which moment things went so wrong within the community. Maybe is it the difficulty (which is kind of easy compared to other games) has been taken for granted by too many people or the voice chat allows big mouths to look tougher and that permits them in a way to do just what you showed with your exemple. It's not just DDO, but i've seen awful exemples like this one playing this game. Like people who can't wait 5 secs for someone to recall before starting to yell bs... really?

In my dream world filled with pretty unicorns, those kinds of players wouldn't get mixed together. Because, how people treat each other (worse over the internet), you just can't fix that, it's already too late in the era. But trying to bring people like-minded together is still possible. May it would be a carebear (chose your word) private channel, a section on the forum for laid-back people that they would use for real... anything so this kind of situation just doesn't happen (they will anyway from time to time, I know). It starts with the respect of each other and Turbine can't fix that so players have to find a work around themselves even if it sucks. And i'm sure it's possible. Here it's not just skill level i'm talking about but mostly attitude. Though, in your exemple, if everyone would have been pros that can't die, I think it might not have happened like that.

Anyways, internet people will never stop to surprise me. I mean ***... the least you can do after verbaly abusing or just seeing it happened before your eyes to a kid who seems harmless for +/- 30mins is have the conscience to, I don't know, be sorry? help him out? tell him how ****** your day was and that it was not him? Just lie if you need to but man... how can people find satisfaction in beating on helpless people. I've seen it before and if can sense that the guy doing the harm is just not like that everyday in RL, I would try to argue with him. By no mean I think it would have a life changing impact, but some people needs to realize what they're doing when it's so wrong. And they don't always do realize it because they're occupied fullfilling their own needs and just can't move away from that road. At least it could have a positive impact on the one that's taking the beatdown. Feeling alone somewhat sucks for many people and it might even haunt their life (semi-exaggerating but I think it's true).

Have to add though that I have also seen some of the most pleasant people to hang with during an e-playing session in DDO. I would think the game being easier would actually attract more of that kind honestly.

Hard to believe you're the only one who sticked with him or tried to do something the whole time. That's 10 people that doesn't understand what life is all about. Too bad for them... and to many people that will encounter them, unfortunately. Oh well, just another day in the online world. Classic. But to you, well done.

Have a good day.

Edit: I found this more important then the actual thread. Now BYOH's time.

Abiding by lfm conditions and goals is still looking out for team. Your attempt to disagree failed.

I'm not trying to disagree with you. I was bringing another perspective from the self centered one "the cleric is here for me and should always keep me alive". But congratulations for completely ignoring my point

Isn't he/she obligated to heal, even a little? Didn't they take an oath or something? Suppose a fighter joined and didn't fight?

If you don't want to heal, don't be a cleric.

Nice fail post.

If it's a BYOH group then its a BYOH group. The cleric is obliged to heal...him/herself. Anything else she/he does is them being nice, it isn't even close to required.

And no, in D&D a cleric does not take an oath to heal because they are not meant to be just healbots. Or are you suggesting all Bards, Druids, Rangers, and Palidins have to heal as well since they have healing spells too?

Originally Posted by Veet

You seriously came here to complain? You are a ranger, I made sure you didn't die, then moved on. If you would've died I would've rezzed you.

Divine classes want everyone to step aside so they can hop around like epileptic crack-heads kiting the dungeon trough their blade barriers in hopes that everyone will fall to their knees and worship their awesomeness.

Lol this post totally made my day.

Seriously... f** heals. All i rly want from a divine is NOT to do that.

While i agree there are situations when that is a good tactics, I have seen too much divines kiting 3-4 barbarians along with the trash.

I disagree. When you join a group you agree to the conditions set by the party leader. If you join a favor run do you expect xp? I don't think so and even if you start complaining that you don't get xp it's only your fault. You could have set your -insert quest name- lfm, to run it for xp, but you decided to join the favor one, so you can't demand xp.
Same goes for BYOH, zerg or flowersniffing lfms. I usually like to zerg in heroic, so I don't join the "everybody's welcome" lfms, cause usually they tend to go to a slower pace and they require for you to adapt to their style. As much as I expect people to keep up with heals and speed if I post BYOH zerg.
Plus the teamwork argument is usually misunderstood by some players. Zerging and BYOH doesn't mean every man for himself, but every man does a percentage of a quest for example. So if in delera 4 1 person, let's say the cleric goes right by himself, leaving the left wing to the fighter, he's not leaving him to die there. They're simply maxing the xp/min ratio by doing each one a part of the quest at the same time. And that's why you need to be prepared to join some kind of lfms

Originally Posted by Zibowskij

I'm not trying to disagree with you. I was bringing another perspective from the self centered one "the cleric is here for me and should always keep me alive". But congratulations for completely ignoring my point

Seriously... f** heals. All i rly want from a divine is NOT to do that.

While i agree there are situations when that is a good tactics, I have seen too much divines kiting 3-4 barbarians along with the trash.

My approach to the bb cleric is to just leave them behind. Dropping any aoe that requires kiting, being an archer that's kiting, basically anything that makes me chase the mob chasing you is a sign that says, "I got this!". If you've got it you don't need my help...time for me to move on to the next quest objective.

As for complaining about clerics that don't heal, either you had a bad cleric in your group, were below level 6, or you weren't standing close enough to them. The good ones heal all the time...stand closer and you'll get in on the love.

My approach to the bb cleric is to just leave them behind. Dropping any aoe that requires kiting, being an archer that's kiting, basically anything that makes me chase the mob chasing you is a sign that says, "I got this!". If you've got it you don't need my help...time for me to move on to the next quest objective.

As for complaining about clerics that don't heal, either you had a bad cleric in your group, were below level 6, or you weren't standing close enough to them. The good ones heal all the time...stand closer and you'll get in on the love.

GH comes on planar girds / scrolls, which my melee caries.
Blur comes on gear, which my melee has.
Haste comes in pots and clickies, even wind stand if you have it like my monk splashed melee.
Rage is meh, and it gets over ridden by my melees defensive fighting and bulwark of defense.

You don't need any of those buffs from an arcane, they aren't mandatory for anything and you can get them yourself.

You are correct, We as players can provide all those buffs ourselves via Coin/Gear Grind/UMD Investment/Etc, just like self healing, which is why I used it as an example.

The question is not can you provide it yourself, The question is: If you asked an Arcane for a buff, would you think it was good social grace for the Arcane to make a fuss they are not a buff bot?

Edit Added:My Answer would be:Depends on how the person asked for the buff. If the person asked politely for a buff, I would be a bit taken aback by the arcane getting snarky about it, if the person asking for the buff was a jerk and demanding that the arcane buff them, I would expect the Arcane to tell them in to die in a fire.

I play to have some fun, and waiting is not fun for me, needing others to take care me, is not fun, begging and pleading for heals and buffs,is not fun. So, I build to cover my own and in some cases (Depends on the build) I can even cover others a bit, because that increases my fun in this game.

Game on and lets have some fun.

Last edited by Ungood; 07-26-2013 at 09:45 AM.
Reason: Put in my own answer

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