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Re: THEE NYG SWAG THREAD

The following concepts are key to understanding the Run &amp; Shoot:
</p>
<ul>[*]Throw to the open receiver. This is fairly obvious but if the receiver is open, the quarterback must recognize the coverage and find him in time to get him the ball. [*]If the QB reads 5 or less in the box, run the football. This means that traditional defensive formations using a 3-4 or 4-3 front will have moved 2 defenders outside of the "box" for coverage help. The "box" is the area about a yard outside of the tight end or offensive tackle on one side of the line to the other offensive tackle/tight end on the other side of the line and about 5 yards beyond the line of scrimmage. [*]Use motion and formations to spread the defense out and anticipate what the defense is going to do. If one uses motion and the defensive back follows the motioning receiver, they are probably playing man coverage or blitzing. If no defensive back follows the motion receiver, then they are probably playing zone defense.[/list]

</p>

---</p>

</p>

i'll own u on this all day ol man
</p>

[/quote]</p>

You just described every offense in the NFL.</p>

The Giants try to throw to the open receiver, they use motion to read zone or man to man and if the defense moves out of the box they will audible to a running play. This is offense 101.</p>

You are absolutely nuts. You have no idea what the Run and Shoot is!!!</p>

There are no TE's so as to flood the zone with WR's. I repeat, there are NO TE's. Lomas said when they got rid of the R &amp; S the first thing they had to do was draft or sign TE's because there were none on the roster.</p>[/quote]

exactly why i would call it a hybrid Run and shoot.

cuz we've incorporated the TE into the offense. Now back then, the TEs weren't ilke this. Today's "RECEIVING TIGHT ENDS" would of definitly been classified as UPBACKS that would of absolutely fit into the traditional run and shoot. I would be amazed if u'd disagree with that

And while everybody DOES run option routes, nobody bases their whole passing game on it like we do - which is basically the biggest part of the run and shoot that carried over. And don't worry i'm waiting for a response to completely end your argument

Re: THEE NYG SWAG THREAD

4 wide receivers is a misconception. Your forgetting that slotbacks were a big part of the offense... which Travin Beckum defines by the way<U> (and u guys know I hate him). </U>

If your suggesting that Mouse Davis AND Kevin Gilbride ran their run and shoot the same exact way.* Tim Hasselback has said on NFL Live before that he was with Gilbride and he helped create the philosophies of the offense and that their passing game is completely based out of the run and shoot
[/quote]a misguided hate.
[/quote]

a truthful hate...

thanks for the tix
[/quote]</P>

Did you tell Dezz what we were talking about at the GB game?!
"I wonder if Dezz actually bought these tickets after losing the bet....what section did he say he sat in again!? WHO GIVES UP GREEN BAY TICKETS?!?!?!" lol</P>[/quote]lol, ha. One day we will all go to a game together.

Is there really A JEDI religion? Is that the same as star wars? At church the woman dress like leah and the dudes like Luke?

Re: THEE NYG SWAG THREAD

The following concepts are key to understanding the Run &amp; Shoot:
</P>
<UL>
<LI>Throw to the open receiver. This is fairly obvious but if the receiver is open, the quarterback must recognize the coverage and find him in time to get him the ball.
<LI>If the QB reads 5 or less in the box, run the football. This means that traditional defensive formations using a 3-4 or 4-3 front will have moved 2 defenders outside of the "box" for coverage help. The "box" is the area about a yard outside of the tight end or offensive tackle on one side of the line to the other offensive tackle/tight end on the other side of the line and about 5 yards beyond the line of scrimmage.
<LI>Use motion and formations to spread the defense out and anticipate what the defense is going to do. If one uses motion and the defensive back follows the motioning receiver, they are probably playing man coverage or blitzing. If no defensive back follows the motion receiver, then they are probably playing zone defense.</LI>[/list]

</P>

---</P>

</P>

i'll own u on this all day ol man
</P>

[/quote]</P>

You just described every offense in the NFL.</P>

The Giants try to throw to the open receiver, they use motion to read zone or man to man and if the defense moves out of the box they will audible to a running play. This is offense 101.</P>

You are absolutely nuts. You have no idea what the Run and Shoot is!!!</P>

There are no TE's so as to flood the zone with WR's. I repeat, there are NO TE's. Lomas said when they got rid of the R &amp; S the first thing they had to do was draft or sign TE's because there were none on the roster.</P>

[/quote]So just because Gilbride/TC plugged in a tightend its not a run and shot anymore? Can you at least admit that certain aspects of the scheme have been incorporated into our current scheme?

[/quote]</P>

Huh?</P>

This little list above. (use motion, audible out of a play when after reading defenses and (this I love) Throw to open receivers) describes what every offense in football does.</P>

Are there aspects of every offense ever used in every current offense? Of course. But Matt's original point way back when was that Eli had a lot of picks because the Giants us a version of the Run and Shoot. This was the genesis of the argument. The Run and Shoot was a short lived, discredited offense that got QB's killed in the late 80's and especially the 90's. It doesn't work.</P>

So Matts argument is specious because for him to be right, only the Giants have to use principles that caused Eli to throw a lot of picks. So why did he throw only 10 in 2008? Why has he only thrown 1 in the past 5 games? Why did he throw only 1 in the 2007 playoffs?</P>

Because he's playing better. Because he's better in the pocket. because he's making better decisions. Its not hard. Its only complicated to Matt.</P>

So the point that 25 int's was due to the 'Run and Shoot" aspects of the offense is silly.</P>

</P>

</P>

The run and shoot has 11 players. Wow....so do the Giants. (and every other team)</P>

The run and shoot uses WR's. Another coincidence..so do the Giants. (and every other team)</P>

The run and shoot uses motion.....Holy cow another similarity to the Giants. (and other team)</P>

Re: THEE NYG SWAG THREAD

Well everybody, Morehead is leaving for St. Croix early tomorrow morning. I'll be back late Saturday night in time to mentally prepare for the game.</p>

Matt.....Keep thinking that since the Giants use motion in their offense, it makes them a run and shoot hybrid. Its a run and Shoot league Matt, and we're just living in it. Hahahahahahahaha!!!</p>

</p>

If you do want to make an actual case, please cite examples of what specifically the Giants do that other teams don't, that are characteristics of the Run and Shoot. I will be interested in reviewing those examples when I get back.</p>

(i suggest pappy reads it as well)
[/quote]
Eli is about to rewrite this one...

[/quote]</P>

lol.."click to look inside"....and when you do it's like page after page of Eli Manning photos. haha</P>[/quote]I watched the Nov 6 game again last night that we played Pat's. This is not going to be a cake walk at the SB. Both teams made mistakes in that game. If we continue like we have been,,,,,,I have to think we have the advantage.

(i suggest pappy reads it as well)
[/quote]
Eli is about to rewrite this one...

[/quote]</P>

lol.."click to look inside"....and when you do it's like page after page of Eli Manning photos. haha</P>

[/quote]I watched the Nov 6 game again last night that we played Pat's. This is not going to be a cake walk at the SB. Both teams made mistakes in that game. If we continue like we have been,,,,,,I have to think we have the advantage.[/quote]</P>

Re: THEE NYG SWAG THREAD

[quote user="byron"]

Today's football is the evolution of all that's come to pass...imho... there is no reason not to believe that the giants, play some sort ofhybrid run and shoot that involvesTE's....While I don't really care one way or the other I don't find it tofar fetched, given our OC's history with it.....there has to be some residue I would think...Dare I say onlyGilbride knows for sure butwhat a novel idea tothrow to the open wr.....</p>

how many more days!?!?</p>[/quote]

exactly

infact the biggest knock of why the typical run and shoot was considered dead was because there was no protection for the QB because they didn't use a TE/FB.

But they didnt' always run 4 wide with WRs, they soemtimes did it with 2 WRs and 2 UPBACKS. Upbacks are basically what the TE position has turned into today with all of these guys that aren't great blockers but too big to play WR and can catch.

We also don't fully committ to that offense, we can line up and play smashmouth

or at least we use to be able to. But you'll even notice we are throwing alot on 3rd and shorts instead of lining up and palying smash mouth

Re: THEE NYG SWAG THREAD

The following concepts are key to understanding the Run &amp; Shoot:
</P>
<UL>
<LI>Throw to the open receiver. This is fairly obvious but if the receiver is open, the quarterback must recognize the coverage and find him in time to get him the ball.
<LI>If the QB reads 5 or less in the box, run the football. This means that traditional defensive formations using a 3-4 or 4-3 front will have moved 2 defenders outside of the "box" for coverage help. The "box" is the area about a yard outside of the tight end or offensive tackle on one side of the line to the other offensive tackle/tight end on the other side of the line and about 5 yards beyond the line of scrimmage.
<LI>Use motion and formations to spread the defense out and anticipate what the defense is going to do. If one uses motion and the defensive back follows the motioning receiver, they are probably playing man coverage or blitzing. If no defensive back follows the motion receiver, then they are probably playing zone defense.</LI>[/list]

</P>

---</P>

</P>

i'll own u on this all day ol man
</P>

[/quote]</P>

You just described every offense in the NFL.</P>

The Giants try to throw to the open receiver, they use motion to read zone or man to man and if the defense moves out of the box they will audible to a running play. This is offense 101.</P>

You are absolutely nuts. You have no idea what the Run and Shoot is!!!</P>

There are no TE's so as to flood the zone with WR's. I repeat, there are NO TE's. Lomas said when they got rid of the R &amp; S the first thing they had to do was draft or sign TE's because there were none on the roster.</P>

[/quote]

exactly why i would call it a hybrid Run and shoot.

cuz we've incorporated the TE into the offense. Now back then, the TEs weren't ilke this. Today's "RECEIVING TIGHT ENDS" would of definitly been classified as UPBACKS that would of absolutely fit into the traditional run and shoot. I would be amazed if u'd disagree with that

And while everybody DOES run option routes, nobody bases their whole passing game on it like we do - which is basically the biggest part of the run and shoot that carried over. And don't worry i'm waiting for a response to completely end your argument
[/quote]</P>

Option routes came as an answer to the complexities of defenses in recent years. They are absolutely necessary for a passing game to work. </P>

You have no idea how wide open and fast paced the run and shoot was. Watch some of these college teams use it with their huge O line splits. Or watch film of Jeff George or warren Moon run it. This system does NOT translate well to the NFL anymore at all.</P>

It has no resemblance to what the Giants do. (Oh I forgot..they do use 11 players just like the R &amp; S, I forgot)</P>