A buddy of mine told me today that he went to both Wal-Mart AND Target and asked if there were figures in stock. BOTH places told him yes and they were not putting them out for sale until a soon-to-be-realized price hike is instituted. BOTH stores told him this. Then I saw a supporting article claiming that Target is upping the price to 7.64 for a basic figure. In fact (according to this article) some newly-opened Targets have already begun and there were photos of the shelf tags to go with it.

Kinda reminds me of the gasoline prices lately.

Snowtrooper

10-12-2006, 08:36 PM

$6.99 for a basic figure is the limit for me. If they up it to over $7.00, then I will be cutting back my SW purchases significantly.

DarkArtist

10-12-2006, 08:44 PM

well it's a wait and see. perhaps the price will be for an all new line of deluxe figures. here's hoping.

Darth Cruel

10-12-2006, 10:06 PM

well it's a wait and see. perhaps the price will be for an all new line of deluxe figures. here's hoping.

I am hoping the photograph was a fake...but it clearly showed the price to be for basic figures.

Kidhuman

10-12-2006, 10:07 PM

If you saw an article, get it posted please or link to it. Thank you.

plasticfetish

10-12-2006, 10:44 PM

The article is over at GH (http://www.galactichunter.com/absolutenm/templates/full_article_template_1.asp?articleid=5892&zoneid=2).

If the price goes over $7 I will be even more selective than before. Probably just clones and Imperial troopers.

El Chuxter

10-13-2006, 12:00 AM

Wow. $8 is too much for a SW figure, when I can get a Marvel Legend, Transformer Classic, DC "S3" Superhero, or some GIJoe Sigma Six figures for $1-2 more.

So wait until interest starts to wane to jack the prices up like that? Not a good idea. Why not keep the price the same and, oh, I don't know, TAKE OUT THE STUPID "FREEBIES" THAT NO ONE ****ING WANTS!!!

JetsAndHeels

10-13-2006, 12:14 AM

Total bs. I haven't bought a SW fig in a pretty good while, and if this price increase proves to be true it will be a long time before I buy another one.
Not good news at all.

sith_killer_99

10-13-2006, 12:30 AM

Well this sucks...big time!

I am begining to wonder if I want to keep collecting. I was upset the last time they jacked up the price and have pretty much stopped army building because of the cost. On top of that I have seen several army builders warming pegs over the last year, AT-AT Drivers, Snowtroopers, Death Star Gunners...none of these would have warmed pegs five years ago.

I can't really justify paying $8.00 a figure, not for the stuff Hasbro has been cranking out lately. But then IMO POTJ was the height of the Star Wars lines, since then it has been slowly declining especially in quality while increasing in price. This may end up forcing me out of collecting.

On a side note, the Wal-Mart out here is clearancing the VOTC figures for $4.00 each.:rolleyes:

decadentdave

10-13-2006, 01:45 AM

Well I ran into the regional Hasbro rep at Walmart today. He saw me checking out the end cap full of Saga figures and asked which ones I was looking for. I told him the Naboo wave and he said they are in the back along with the 30th Anniversary Tins but they couldn't put them out until the 15th because of the MOD date (Merchandise On Display) and that all of the Targets have the Snowspeeders and Kit Fisto fighters in stock now and should be putting them out by this weekend. He said he could pull some Tins if I wanted but I passed, not interested in those. But judging from the incredible overstock of Greatest Hits and Saga that are glutting the aisles at Walmart and Target, they are gonna have to clearance them out. I just picked up the Titanium IG-88 and Clone Trooper at Target for $7 and the Unleashed Grievous and Fett for $9.98. The price hike will only cause them to reduce prices even faster.

Kidhuman

10-13-2006, 07:09 AM

Time to be more selective in choosing figs if this increase goes through at all stores. I cant believe Target is more than Kmart.

Slicker

10-13-2006, 07:47 AM

Eh, I'm pathetically hooked so I'll take in it in the arse. It is only a $.50 increase. It's not like I'm gonna die. If I can't afford a fifty cent increase then maybe I should not be collecting...

jedi master sal

10-13-2006, 08:58 AM

...On top of that I have seen several army builders warming pegs over the last year, AT-AT Drivers, Snowtroopers, Death Star Gunners...none of these would have warmed pegs five years ago.

I agree completely. A good many of you here know how I army build, and I've been passing up clones left and right. At $7 a pop it is just getting to be too much. This price hike by Target will be the end point for me. I'll definitely shop elsewheres for my action figures. This really sucks too, because I'd like to build up more clones and practically trip all over myself looking at all of the AT-TE gunners, Shocktroopers, Death Star Gunners and the like. If these figs would drop back down to the respectable $5 pricepoint we all know they should be, figures would start flying off the shelves again. If not fly, certainly they'd sell through much faster than the glut we are seeing now.

Eh, I'm pathetically hooked so I'll take in it in the arse.

And you'll like it!...

Seriously, I'm getting tired of spending all this money. I want the figuers I want and I want them now. That's no different than a great many of us.

Enough with this crap from Hasbro of "You'll be rewarded in the long run."

HEY HASBRO! I'VE BEEN AROUND FOR THE LONG RUN!!! 30 frickin' years of collecting here!!! Give me what I want now and be done with it. There's NO way this line is going to remain viable until the end of your contract with LFL in 2018. You've got 3-4 years tops and SW will greatly decline in sales. In fact I'm prediting even less if the TV shows don't do well.

Give us the AT-TE, no BS please. Give us a decently scaled Infiltrator! We'll pay more for a better size ship.

Give us the figures we've been clamoring for, regardless of you're preconcieved notions towards the figure...YARNA and hell even ICMG. (And OH so many more).

Do it NOW, because this price increase is only going to keep going up and up and that's drawing more people AWAY from collecting SW Hasbro stuff than it is bringing them to it.

If I knew ABSOLUTELy in the next two years, you'd give me the great majority of what I and most of teh rest of the collecitng community wants as a whole, I'd pay the higher prices and be done with it.

I don't like being strung along only to see ridiculous sales and marketing schemes like tin multi-packs.

Should I be venting this towards Target, yes, BUT we as consumers have other alternatives. Not just brick and mortar, but e-tailors. And you can bet we'll be flocking to those instead. While you Hasbro dont' set the price persay, if you don't play a little hardball with Target, you're going to allow yourselves to be taken out of the equation. Once Target see their sales slipping significantly due to this price hike, they are either going to pull back on orders or drop prices to clearance level and take a loss (which again could mean less orders in the future).
Dont allow Target to prematurely kill this line, because they are getting greedy.

This is one time I hope TRU sticks to their guns and KEEPS figure prices where they are. You know Wal*Mart is going to low-ball everyone, so be it. A neccessary evil.

All I'm trying to say is, this greed for my dollars without giving me what I really want from this line is GREATLY and VASTLY making me decide even sooner to stop collecting SW. Less that be considered soething trivial, I again state that I buy approx $6K on average in SW stuff per yer and have been for the past 10 years. Yes, I'm just one person, but I clearly account for many a kid when compare to in $$'s. I KNOW I'm not the only one here who feels like they are getting the shaft. Imagine the bottom dropping out Hasbro. Keep allowing the retailors to dictate YOUR product and the prices and YOU are going to pay for it. We consumers won't have product to buy anymore, and while that's a sad prospect it WILL put money back in our pockets. Money that will most likely go to OTHER SW manufacturers.

Enough is ENOUGH!!!

(Sorry to my fellow forumites for such the long rant, I just really needed to get that off my chest.)

Phantom-like Menace

10-13-2006, 09:01 AM

Eh, I'm pathetically hooked so I'll take in it in the arse. It is only a $.50 increase. It's not like I'm gonna die. If I can't afford a fifty cent increase then maybe I should not be collecting...

Good call. Honest and accurate. I haven't been completist in years, but that says more about my financial situation than anything about Hasbro or their product.

abell748

10-13-2006, 09:19 AM

I used to be a completist at the $5 price point (variants and all). Later I started to get one of each figure (no variants until ROTS). Even though the price point was more for ROTS, I completed a set. As the price stayed up for TSC, I was was only getting new figures, sculpts, or figures never single carded before. If this price increase sticks then I will cut out all but new figures or some few-and-far-between-super-awesome-resculpt. But hey, if they want to drive everyone out of the figure collecting market so be it. I want to see how the ebay scalpers survive without SW figures.

El Chuxter

10-13-2006, 09:33 AM

You guys are acting like it's just Target. Previous price hikes have been across the board. And DC mentioned hearing this news about a Wally World, too.

Not good news.

Oh, and I have to slightly alter what I said above. After the price hike, I can get a Marvel Legend for less than a Star Wars figure. :dead:

Old Fossil

10-13-2006, 09:39 AM

Like a couple others here, a price increase like this won't affect me much. My SW collecting has and will decrease mainly because of lack of interesting product, not a measely .50 price hike. (That still beats most e-tailers' prices.) Since I don't collect "high-end" merchandise (MR, Sideshow, etc.) I am better able to absorb a basic figure price increase than some; SW basic figure collecting has always been my primary focus, so if it will cost me $8 to get Biggs in his academy outfit, so be it.

IMO much of this past year's Saga offerings were well worth what I paid, and I would have probably paid even $7.50 apiece for the AT-AT Driver, Veers, Death Star Gunner, R5-D4, Hem Dazon, Hammerhead, and the Sandtrooper, as I see them as superior sculpts of great OTC characters and army builders.

This ain't 2001. The prices of the POTJ days, well, we won't see them again, probably. Gas, milk, and so much else is more expensive nowadays. Too bad wages haven't quite kept up with inflation.

shammykenobi

10-13-2006, 11:32 AM

Alot of you guys are saying that it's only a 50 cent price hike. I was at wal-mart this morning and the price for basic figures was 6.64. After the price hike and taxes it will be more like a dollar or more price increase.

Anyway, I was thinking that if the price does increase, that you could by a gentle giant mini-bust or a sideshow twelve-inch figure for the price that you would pay for any 8 figures. That's just ridiculous. And another point: how come a little over a year ago, when the ROTS was released it retailed for $5.00? How can they justify a three dollar per figure price increase in a little over a year? Anyway, I've really cut back on what i buy when the price went up over $5.00. If it does indeed go up to around $8.00 then I will probably seriously be out of the game. That's just way too much money for a figure. And I don't care what hasbro says about not being able to control prices at retail, they could do something about it if they wanted to.

El Chuxter

10-13-2006, 11:46 AM

$0.50 - $1.00 per figure may not be much if you're buying only one. But buy the entire line, or even just the new figures, and it adds up.

jedi master sal

10-13-2006, 11:54 AM

Like a couple others here, a price increase like this won't affect me much. My SW collecting has and will decrease mainly because of lack of interesting product, not a measely .50 price hike. (That still beats most e-tailers' prices.) Since I don't collect "high-end" merchandise (MR, Sideshow, etc.) I am better able to absorb a basic figure price increase than some; SW basic figure collecting has always been my primary focus, so if it will cost me $8 to get Biggs in his academy outfit, so be it.

IMO much of this past year's Saga offerings were well worth what I paid, and I would have probably paid even $7.50 apiece for the AT-AT Driver, Veers, Death Star Gunner, R5-D4, Hem Dazon, Hammerhead, and the Sandtrooper, as I see them as superior sculpts of great OTC characters and army builders.

This ain't 2001. The prices of the POTJ days, well, we won't see them again, probably. Gas, milk, and so much else is more expensive nowadays. Too bad wages haven't quite kept up with inflation.

See that's just it, while I do get some of the higher end stuff, it's really the Hasbro stuff that I want the most.

For someone like me who is not just an army builder, but an extreme one at that, an extra 50 cents can make quite a dent.

Just as an example, take into the account that I now have just over 100 Utapau troopers. I paid $6.50 to $7. Paying an additional 50 cetns per would have cost me another $50 + $3.50 tax.

There are three more army biulder coming single carded and I'd like to get 20-40 or each. The price hike is going to make the difference on how many of each I'll get. Just a lousy 50 cents will mean the difference from 60 figs to 120. I think Hasbro would rather have the 120 figs sell... I mean dang, that's ten whole cases from just me alone and that's on only 3 figures.

So okay, not everyone is a nut like me and buys like this, but those who army build will give it a second thought. And I'd suspect others will seriously consider if they are going to collect the 30th Anni line complete because of this.

I've just been into SW collecting for too long I guess. I'm just getting really tired of the bs and excuses. Hasbro is in the business to sell toys. Retailers are in teh business to sell them too. But it's WE the consumers (not just collectors but kids too, and their parents) who actually hold the dollars. It just so happens that we collectors have the more vocal group to say what we want. I don't like that Hasbro will pay us lip service from time to time. Okay so we've had a few scant figures that were specifically released due to our begging, but there are still many more we want and Hasbro has given no indication that they will do them. (Or very little indication that they'd consider them at least.)

Pricepoint jumping ever higher means not just parents are going to try and convince their kids to get something cheaper which in all likelyhood won't be a SW toys, but it also means even us die-hard collectors are going to reconsider our purchases and if we REALLY WANT the toy or not.

Collecting is just becoming that much more of a chore as every day passes...

I'm actually glad that my thoughts on collecting are winding down. (It's got me to start playing Bass, which I've wanted to do for 2 years. I've bought a Bass, Amp, 2 guitar straps, a metronome, electronic tuner, and a guitar stand all in the past two weeks.) Now see, that money could have gone to SW stuff and made Hasbro more money. I'd have had more stuff to put into storage and that would have been that. Instead, I've been getting a kick out of playing bass. Even attempting to strum out some notes when I hear music on tv, or trying to replicate the bass riff's I hear in the cds I play.

Hmm, maybe I should THANK Hasbro instead huh? heh.

Thanks for coming out with product that I don't want or need. Thanks for making it so hard to find some of the more desireable toys to own. Thanks for making some many toys exclusives that I would spend way to much money on gas to go get them. Thanks for making some of those exclusives web only, so I have to pay more for shipping. Really Hasbro thanks for making my decision to quit collecting that much easier. Yep 2007 is definitely my last year "in the game."

THANKS HASBRO!

JON9000

10-13-2006, 12:16 PM

This ain't 2001. The prices of the POTJ days, well, we won't see them again, probably. Gas, milk, and so much else is more expensive nowadays. Too bad wages haven't quite kept up with inflation.

1999 was the year of the price hike that ended my "collect them all" mindset. POTJ went to $6.99 at TRU late that year. The good news is that figure prices dropped to $4.99 with the SAGA line. Of course, my will to collect them all was by that point broken, due to POTJ prices and the proliferation of exclusives.

I'll continue to collect, but in an even more directed manner. Tatooine figures are pretty much what I'll be limiting myself to until the prices come down or I can find sales. And of course, there is good old Ebay. Since I am an opener now, I can get already opened figs on the cheap.

Who knows, prices may descend again. They seem to climb when there is no media support, hopefully they'll drop with the TV show.

Old Fossil

10-13-2006, 01:05 PM

And another point: how come a little over a year ago, when the ROTS was released it retailed for $5.00? How can they justify a three dollar per figure price increase in a little over a year? Anyway, I've really cut back on what i buy when the price went up over $5.00. If it does indeed go up to around $8.00 then I will probably seriously be out of the game. That's just way too much money for a figure. And I don't care what hasbro says about not being able to control prices at retail, they could do something about it if they wanted to.

The ROTS line was a movie-year line. Hasbro could have done what they did with Ep.I, which was to release a flood of new figures AND increase the price on them. That didn't work; retailers ended up sitting of cases of earlier waves, so they didn't order later waves, which meant they had to be clearanced out somewhere later, which meant Hasbro and the retailers either taking a loss, or just breaking even. They learned their lesson; so that with ROTS in 2005, you had a flood of new figures, yes, BUT a price drop. It worked, and few figures ended up being clearanced out, to be found still hanging on the pegs at smaller retailers years later (Ric Olie, etc.).

Now the Star Wars line must survive on a fraction of the shelf space it had a year ago. No movies and no TV shows in the immediate future mean that retailers are probably shy of even carrying SW toys at all! So the line must keep retailer and fan interest; but with less media exposure, SW is not on every kids' (and their parents') mind these days. Dollars are drying up from that sector. It is on those kids who are hooked, and collectors, that the line depends now, and that is a significantly smaller money pool. But it must still be a money maker, in addition to paying for itself, so a price increase is inevitable.

decadentdave

10-13-2006, 01:46 PM

I'm going to be perfectly honest, after making the rounds this week one thing is perfectly and brutally clear: we are seeing the death of Star Wars collecting. All Targets and Walmarts are overstocked with Star Wars product on the pegs and they ARE NOT selling. Target has already clearanced out Unleashed after only 1 month and NEW Titanium figures (I picked up IG-88 and 501st Clonetroopper for $7). Even TRU is glutting with Saga and Greatest Battles figs. This, more than anything, says something about the sad state of the hobby. Retailers are definitely going to lose interest and scale back on orders because they perceive that the Star Wars brand is no longer in demand and now they have to dump their overstock. I'm telling you, a price increase will only expedite this. Eventually, entire waves will be cut because Walmarts won't order them, and I've seen this happen before. Hasbro had better get their crap together or the line won't last another 3 years.

Old Fossil

10-13-2006, 02:24 PM

I'm going to be perfectly honest, after making the rounds this week one thing is perfectly and brutally clear: we are seeing the death of Star Wars collecting. All Targets and Walmarts are overstocked with Star Wars product on the pegs and they ARE NOT selling. Target has already clearanced out Unleashed after only 1 month and NEW Titanium figures (I picked up IG-88 and 501st Clonetroopper for $7). Even TRU is glutting with Saga and Greatest Battles figs. This, more than anything, says something about the sad state of the hobby. Retailers are definitely going to lose interest and scale back on orders because they perceive that the Star Wars brand is no longer in demand and now they have to dump their overstock. I'm telling you, a price increase will only expedite this. Eventually, entire waves will be cut because Walmarts won't order them, and I've seen this happen before. Hasbro had better get their crap together or the line won't last another 3 years.

3 years? That may be too optimistic!lol

Ha, not really. Likely the only 'death' we'll see are of 'fringe' sidelines like Titanium figures and vehicles, Unleashed (both scales), and larger ships like the Gunship and the Falcon. (I will personally not be too sad to see those lines disappear.) It will probably come back down to a basic figure line, and lightsabers, like we had a couple of years ago before OTC, with exclusives offered during the holiday seasons. Basic figures and role-play sabers are the bread and butter of the SW toy industry (even Hasbro has acknowledged this in the past), and are enough to the maintain kid/collector interest in non-movie years that the hobby needs to remain economically viable.

decadentdave

10-13-2006, 02:40 PM

I personally like the Titanium figures. I also like large scale ships. As for lightsabers and role-play toys, every store I've been to is overflowing with them. Even this close to Halloween, kids don't seem to want them. It's so bad that Walmart clearanced them out last week at $6 each and Target has the Build-Your-Own lightsaber on clearance for $20. When entire waves of figures are not even ordered (Sio Bibble wave anyone?) then that should tell you something.

DarthBrandon

10-13-2006, 04:11 PM

I agree completely. A good many of you here know how I army build, and I've been passing up clones left and right. At $7 a pop it is just getting to be too much. This price hike by Target will be the end point for me. I'll definitely shop elsewheres for my action figures. This really sucks too, because I'd like to build up more clones and practically trip all over myself looking at all of the AT-TE gunners, Shocktroopers, Death Star Gunners and the like. If these figs would drop back down to the respectable $5 pricepoint we all know they should be, figures would start flying off the shelves again. If not fly, certainly they'd sell through much faster than the glut we are seeing now.

And you'll like it!...

Seriously, I'm getting tired of spending all this money. I want the figuers I want and I want them now. That's no different than a great many of us.

Enough with this crap from Hasbro of "You'll be rewarded in the long run."

HEY HASBRO! I'VE BEEN AROUND FOR THE LONG RUN!!! 30 frickin' years of collecting here!!! Give me what I want now and be done with it. There's NO way this line is going to remain viable until the end of your contract with LFL in 2018. You've got 3-4 years tops and SW will greatly decline in sales. In fact I'm prediting even less if the TV shows don't do well.

Give us the AT-TE, no BS please. Give us a decently scaled Infiltrator! We'll pay more for a better size ship.

Give us the figures we've been clamoring for, regardless of you're preconcieved notions towards the figure...YARNA and hell even ICMG. (And OH so many more).

Do it NOW, because this price increase is only going to keep going up and up and that's drawing more people AWAY from collecting SW Hasbro stuff than it is bringing them to it.

If I knew ABSOLUTELy in the next two years, you'd give me the great majority of what I and most of teh rest of the collecitng community wants as a whole, I'd pay the higher prices and be done with it.

I don't like being strung along only to see ridiculous sales and marketing schemes like tin multi-packs.

Should I be venting this towards Target, yes, BUT we as consumers have other alternatives. Not just brick and mortar, but e-tailors. And you can bet we'll be flocking to those instead. While you Hasbro dont' set the price persay, if you don't play a little hardball with Target, you're going to allow yourselves to be taken out of the equation. Once Target see their sales slipping significantly due to this price hike, they are either going to pull back on orders or drop prices to clearance level and take a loss (which again could mean less orders in the future).
Dont allow Target to prematurely kill this line, because they are getting greedy.

This is one time I hope TRU sticks to their guns and KEEPS figure prices where they are. You know Wal*Mart is going to low-ball everyone, so be it. A neccessary evil.

All I'm trying to say is, this greed for my dollars without giving me what I really want from this line is GREATLY and VASTLY making me decide even sooner to stop collecting SW. Less that be considered soething trivial, I again state that I buy approx $6K on average in SW stuff per yer and have been for the past 10 years. Yes, I'm just one person, but I clearly account for many a kid when compare to in $$'s. I KNOW I'm not the only one here who feels like they are getting the shaft. Imagine the bottom dropping out Hasbro. Keep allowing the retailors to dictate YOUR product and the prices and YOU are going to pay for it. We consumers won't have product to buy anymore, and while that's a sad prospect it WILL put money back in our pockets. Money that will most likely go to OTHER SW manufacturers.

Enough is ENOUGH!!!

(Sorry to my fellow forumites for such the long rant, I just really needed to get that off my chest.)

Very nicely said,

I've been contemplating curbing or quitting my S.W. spending habits over the last year. The lack of new figures aside from the improved versions have made up my mind to seriously think about what I buy now a days, especially with the price hikes as of late. I have spent way too much money on things I already have two or three times over, & to waste more money at a higher price in order to get a better version is just not cutting it for me. I buy Marvel Legends at a lower cost than S.W. right now (will have to see how much they go up under Hasbro's direction) & they are a lot more buy for your buck IMHO. I haven't even picked up the Endor wave right now as I'm trying to decide if I really want these or not. (most likely I will but it never takes me this long to decide on figures) Next year is going to be even more extreme for me, I can see at least six or seven figures from the rumour list & possibly two ships if done right (AT-TE/Infiltrator) & somehow I think I may pass on the Infiltrator unless it totally rocks for twenty bucks. (that's less than two hundred Hasbro, I used to spend 3 to 4 grand in a year, this should tell you something:alien:) If I'm going to shell out hard earned money it will be only for good quality never before done sculpts, no more buying two sets (one carded & one opened) & no more buying just for the sake of saying I have it. Screw that, if you want my money now at all, you'll have to really impress me Hasbro (I TRULY MEAN IT).

dindae

10-13-2006, 04:21 PM

If there is an increase it won't effect my buying any. I figure even if I by enough army builders to double the number of figures next year its still only $60. I definately don't see it as a smart move since the hobby is going to be on a downward slope without media support but with material costs increasing and the continued increase in articulation I don't see it as totally unjustified either.

El Chuxter

10-13-2006, 05:05 PM

A thought occurs to me:

The price is going up to about $7.50 - $8.00.

Hasbro said more Ewoks next year.

Hasbro said they'd be in proper scale.

Does this mean there will be figures the size of Chirpa who cost eight bucks? :eek:

JediTricks

10-13-2006, 05:20 PM

A little price increase here or there is no big thing until we're at $7 for a friggin' tiny figure that isn't even "really awesome" most of the time, it's not the 50 cents that'll break me, it's the fact that they're already $2 overpriced now, 50 more cents means they'll be 50% overpriced from where they were recently and where they deserve to be. Hasbro keeps saying they want the kid market, but they keep raising prices to levels that kids and parents simply don't see any value in, and that is always going to be the bottom line in something like this.
- The figures are not good enough to warrant the price hike. Between that and a non-movie year, casual collectors are abandoning the line.

- Hasbro foresees casual collectors abandoning the line and want to continue to make X amount of money, so they make the remaining loyal collectors pay even more for the figures.

- The price goes up again, and even more customers abandon the line. Cycle repeats until interest is so low retailers won't want to carry it or Hasbro won't want to continue making it.
That is a bad situation, it's what we appear to be trapped in right now, and frankly I'm sick of paying so much for figures that aren't all they can be and are impossible to find because Hasbro floods the market with pegwarmers like Lushros Dofine and Greatest Hits.

I've been considering dropping my Hasbro collecting down to just Titanium Series 3" vehicles, that line is a good price, isn't a miserable chore to find, and is fun and satisfying and delivers a lot of what collectors want. Why the 3.75" figure line cannot be the same, I don't know, but if they raise prices again it's going to really suck since the product cannot live up to that price.

TheCivilCollector

10-13-2006, 05:21 PM

Hasbro said more Ewoks next year.

Hasbro said they'd be in proper scale.

Does this mean there will be figures the size of Chirpa who cost eight bucks? :eek:

I hope not. I kind of liked the trend Hasbro had started awhile ago when they'd put multiples in a pack if they were small (Ugnauts, Jawas, Podracers, Pit droids, Ewoks, etc...).

I ordered Chirpa online from TRU for $8.99 and almost did a spit-take when I saw his size.

I can't even keep up with what's exclusive anymore, so I just listed where I found 'em.

As for price increases, well 50 cents now 50 cents more in a year...who knows how much we could end up paying $8.00 each $9.00 each sorry but I have my limits once I feel like I am being abused I take a step back. If Hasbro keeps it up I will turn to Hot Wheels!

Luuuuuuke

10-13-2006, 11:24 PM

Stuff is kind of expensive as it is. I'm not going to buy the Tins. WM has them for $26, but most only have one figure I really want. That's too steep. I guess I picked a good time to start collecting less, purely by coincidence.

Snowtrooper

10-14-2006, 12:52 AM

As of right now, I have been buying one figure to keep carded and one to open, with multiples of army builders. I was already planning on cutting back when TAV comes out to just one of each for opening and multiple army builders, since I don't care much for the new cards. What I'll probably end up doing is buy the army builders and then wait for the rest to go on clearance either at the store, or online. If I end up missing a few, so be it.

Blackthorpe

10-14-2006, 01:38 PM

Heck, Star Wars figures are already $9.99 at Rite Aid here, so $7.50-$8 still looks ok to me. I've been scaled way back lately anyway, mostly due to limited funds, but I've gotten used to only buying the ones I really want and leaving others on the pegs. I'm not a completist, or an army builder, so this doesn't worry me too much. I'm sure it will go down again. After all, gas prices have dropped considerably recently...

Blue2th

10-14-2006, 02:45 PM

All I know is the retailers better do a massive clearance of the basic line as decadentdave alluded to. Not just a dollar off, but a 50% cut to clear out all these Greatest Battles and Heroes and Villians clogging the pegs everywhere. A price hike now would be a serious miscalculation till these are gone or thinned out considerably.

sith_killer_99

10-14-2006, 11:03 PM

Well, I have already altered my collecting style. I used to get two of each, one carded, one loose and of course multiples for Army Building. Plus all the exclusives and ships to open.

With the increasing prices I have cut back to only collecting one of each carded, plus one to open from the OT and OT Army Building, more recently I have been passing on Army Building figures in general. I also dropped collecting any of the PT ships.

Now I find myself passing up the OT ships as well!

If this keeps up Hasbro will be lucky to get me to buy one of each for my carded collection. As it is I may end up trading/selling many of my loose figures to suppliment the cost of new figures.

I am coming dangerously close to giving up collecting.

If worse comes to worse I can always weed out my collection by getting rid of the garbage figures I never really liked....starting with many of the blue carded SAGA figures!:twisted:

Luuuuuuke

10-15-2006, 12:29 AM

I decided today to no longer buy anything except for ROTS clones and OT stormtroopers. In fact, I was already pretty focused on ROTS as it was. But I'm not getting a Snowspeeder, any of the TRU vehicles or the AT-AT or EndorII/Naboo figures.

The rumor of price hikes will just make it easier.

figrin bran

10-15-2006, 03:13 AM

the worst part about this price hike is that it doesn't necessarily guarantee that each and every figure will be of the best quality that hasbro is capable of. we've seen with many Saga 2 figures that they'll skimp out on articulation (cody anyone?) just to cut costs. with the added money from us, will hasbro change their ways? probably not.

i didn't even mention repacks either. how many of us would be willing to pay upwards of $7 for POTF2 repacks? that's what i thought ;)

jonthejedi

10-15-2006, 05:56 AM

Yeah, I'm personally done with the repaints & redos. I see Targets & Wallys drowning in tubed Unleashed(already on clearance at Target). H&V & GB are so thick at my local WalMart...they had to put them on endcaps. After 1 week, they tell me their Unleashed Vader & Luke are just not selling. I'm not buying the AOTC Obi starfighter in 5 different color schemes, or the ROTS version in purple, green, orange...just because they belonged to cool Jedi characters. I passed on the TRU X-wing because they'll be on clearance before Xmas...there was literally a pallet by the front entrance. $90 is too much for the Endor AT-AT, when I paid $50 for the Hoth version. I may shell out $60 for the Imp. shuttle. I AM looking forward(as many of you) to Galactic Marine & Airborne Trooper...because they are new sculpts, but I won't be buying multiples of the others just to fill a coin album. I didn't do it with the slides, I won't do it with the coins. I say to collectors & kids alike...just buy what you like...we don't have to fill a barn like Steve Sansweet to prove our love of SW. Don't pay $26 for the tins just to get 1 fig. Eventually, Hasbro will start listening to us when the mass merchants choke them with returns.

Blue2th

10-15-2006, 09:04 AM

I'm going to be perfectly honest, after making the rounds this week one thing is perfectly and brutally clear: we are seeing the death of Star Wars collecting. All Targets and Walmarts are overstocked with Star Wars product on the pegs and they ARE NOT selling. Target has already clearanced out Unleashed after only 1 month and NEW Titanium figures (I picked up IG-88 and 501st Clonetroopper for $7). Even TRU is glutting with Saga and Greatest Battles figs. This, more than anything, says something about the sad state of the hobby. Retailers are definitely going to lose interest and scale back on orders because they perceive that the Star Wars brand is no longer in demand and now they have to dump their overstock. I'm telling you, a price increase will only expedite this. Eventually, entire waves will be cut because Walmarts won't order them, and I've seen this happen before. Hasbro had better get their crap together or the line won't last another 3 years.
I'm a little worried about the next 3 months. As you say, and we have seen, Hasbro has cancelled production on entire waves. Usually the last ones. This time, It'll be wave 8. If they are going to produce a "Greatist Hits" or "Heroes and Villians" don't keep making them beyond their popularity. How long have we seen these figures? Since May or June? There's a such thing as overkill. And now a price hike? That's just stupid. This could kill sales at least in the near future. I for one am glad we are asking Hasbro question #35 in round 13, which asks how they will address the GH, HV problem.

shammykenobi

10-15-2006, 10:30 AM

Don't pay $26 for the tins just to get 1 fig. Eventually, Hasbro will start listening to us when the mass merchants choke them with returns.[/QUOTE]

I saw the new tins yesterday at toys-r-us and I really wanted the white at-rt driver, but I didn't need any of the other figs. The price was 29.99 which puts the figs at about 7.00 a piece. Yeah, I know there is the price of the tin included in that too, but it's not that much. Anyway, a multi-pack of four figures that costs the same as if you bought the four figures separately isn't good. And the last thing I need is another Anakin, Mace and yoda, so I passed. These sets shoult be about $15.00-$20.00. Then I would buy them.

Jayspawn

10-15-2006, 11:15 AM

I think Jedi Master Sal said it best in his post.

As most people know I was a devoute figure collector until a few years ago when I bought my last Han Solo for the hundredth time and I realized I'm just a sucker. Hasbro must think i'm an idiot because I keep buying the same damn thing over and over again.

And I was right. I'm through buying Vaders and Anakins and Ob-Wans. I'm glad I'm not one of Hasbro's suckers anymore.

The price increase (should it happen) is Hasbro's way of sucking more blood and $ out of hard working people. My money is better than that.

Dont be a fool! Stop buying!

mtriv73

10-15-2006, 11:17 AM

So has anyone actually seen the price hike yet?

The WM nearest me has all figures for $5.70 each right now. They dropped the price about 2-3 weeks ago just in time for me to pick up the Naboo wave. There aren't any clearance tags, that's just the price on the pegs. Maybe the prices at those Targets were a fluke and they're actually going to lower prices for the holiday season. I hope that's the case at any rate.

sith_killer_99

10-15-2006, 12:10 PM

My local WM still charged $6.67 each!:mad:

shammykenobi

10-15-2006, 12:56 PM

They're $6.63 at my wal-mart too. I hate it when stores like wal-mart and target don't have the same retail or sales prices from store to store.

Blackthorpe

10-15-2006, 02:49 PM

Wal-Mart only has to price-match other stores in a particular town. I learned that the hard way. :mad: It's just one more problem with those big stores.

Still, this price hike, if it happens, won't make me stop collecting. This is my hobby, and I enjoy it quite a bit. I don't need to buy every figure (I never did buy repacks to begin with, and they are often the ones that sell best because they are what the kids want, like heroes). Even if the price goes up, I don't think it will stay that high. This is, once again, all because of the hike in oil prices. It will pass, if it happens.

Besides, what happened to the excitement we all had when we saw the first wave for next year? They still look pretty good, with minimal repacks. I'm still really excited about them (at least the ones I was excited about to begin with, and even some that have grown on me).

shammykenobi

10-16-2006, 11:23 AM

The price is going up because of the cost of oil? I guess that means that they're charging more because the oil they have to buy to make the figures with costs more? I don't necessarily know if i buy that or not. Gas prices have been falling for the past month, so if oil was going up so would the gas prices. If anything, the price increases should reflect the cost of gas not oil. It would cost more in gas to ship them to the stores if gas went up.

I know alot of people are saying that Hasbro is just trying to eek more money out of us, but when we buy the figure from wal-mart or target or toys-r-us they're the ones that gets all of our money. Hasbro has already made their money way before that, when they sold the figures to the store in the first place. So if hasbro increased their wholesale prices, then wal-mart and target and everyone else might increase their prices to recover their cost, but i'm not sure this is what is happening. Wal-mart and the other chains can be very persuasive when determining the wholesale price that they will pay for an item. In most cases they tell the manufacturer how much they are going to pay and if the manufacturer can not provide merchandise at that price, then wal-mart will move on to someone else.

For instance there used to be a furniture factory near where I lived that made particle board computer desks for wal-mart. It was a fairly good sized factory and employed about 200 people which is pretty good for a small rural town in an economically depressed part of the south. Anyway, in the contract between wal-mart and the factory there was a clause stating that if wal-mart could find a manufacturer that could make desks for 5% cheaper and the factory couldn't match that, then they no longer had to honor the contract. Wal-mart found another manufacturer, pulled the contract and the factory went ****-up and 200 people lost their jobs. If you can find there's a special on wal-mart that aired on one of the learning channels about wal-mart and their practices and policies. They pretty much make the rules of the game and everyone has to play by their rules.

Anyhow, if anyone has anything to add, or more insight, or can point out where i'm wrong about anything please feel free to do so.

pbarnard

10-16-2006, 01:16 PM

The price is going up because of the cost of oil? I guess that means that they're charging more because the oil they have to buy to make the figures with costs more? I don't necessarily know if i buy that or not. Gas prices have been falling for the past month, so if oil was going up so would the gas prices. If anything, the price increases should reflect the cost of gas not oil. It would cost more in gas to ship them to the stores if gas went up.

I asked this in a submitted question to Hasbro's Q&A. They said no, crude oil prices won't affect their costs for now. However this doesn't mean the stores transports, which use diesel which hasn't flattened, isn't going down. My guess is that it is not Hasbro hiking their suggested price but the retailers who do the actual transporting trying to offset the higher and increasing costs of diesel which transport everything to and fro.

shammykenobi

10-16-2006, 01:54 PM

My guess is that it is not Hasbro hiking their suggested price but the retailers who do the actual transporting trying to offset the higher and increasing costs of diesel which transport everything to and fro.[/QUOTE]

I forgot that the big trucks use diesel. This actually does make sense. I used to own/operate one of those Everything 99 cents stores. My wholesale cost per item was around 55 cents. After adding shipping to that and averaging it over the # of items that I received the cost would end up being around 58-60 cents which is acceptable. When gas prices started going up the shipping companies would charge more to ship the same items. My cost per item, at one point, got up to around 65-70 cents per item which isn't acceptable. So i had to start charging more to recover my loss. Unfortunately I also had to change the name of my store. Anyway, I do understand it from a retailer point of view, but that doesn't mean i'm willing to pay $8.00 for an action figure.

TheCivilCollector

10-16-2006, 02:28 PM

As most people know I was a devoute figure collector until a few years ago when I bought my last Han Solo for the hundredth time and I realized I'm just a sucker. Hasbro must think i'm an idiot because I keep buying the same damn thing over and over again.

And I was right. I'm through buying Vaders and Anakins and Ob-Wans. I'm glad I'm not one of Hasbro's suckers anymore.

I really don't agree with you there, Jayspawn. The reason is, in any toy line you have to have a suffucient amount of "hero" and "villian" characters available. Hasbro isn't trying to sucker the collectors, they're trying to make a Han Solo or Luke Skywalker available for kids that are buying them. How fun would it be for a kid to only be able to find wave after wave of obscure characters like "Hem Dazon" or "Mustafar Lava Miner". As JT accurately said once, the fun for kids in these toys is in re-enacting the movie.

I think Army-building and the secondary market is far more dangerous to our hobby. Unless I'm VERY lucky, and am there when a case is just opened, I never see ANY clones on the shelf. And the secondary market resellers snap up any other short-packs, leaving pegwarmers like "Lushros Dofine" and "Poggle the Lesser" to glut shelfspace, thereby preventing restocking. After us collectors get the new obscures that we clamor for, the rest sit on the shelf until clearance time. I'm reminded of the amount of vintage Greedos, Tusken Raiders, and Hans sat around until Hasbro announced they would honor any five stickers for the mail-in.

Just look at Hasbro's next few assortments: A couple obscures, Half clones or army-builders, half Heros/Villians. They know how we buy.

I really like JT's idea of packs he started this thread with, I wish Hasbro would make sdomething like this available online. The last time seemed like a bad experiment that was mishandled. I hate having to fight with army-builders that have more time on thier hands than I do in order to get ONE 501st legion Clonetrooper.

Anyway, [/rant] :thumbsup:

plasticfetish

10-16-2006, 02:46 PM

Not to rip on our good friends over at GH... but I have yet to hear about this from anyone else, and until I see some price changes at my local stores, I'm calling this one a big rumor. (I wouldn't be surprised if what this person saw was a mistake.)

If/when the price does go up for basic figures, then I'm not going to be too terribly hurt. I'm pretty picky about what I buy, and this'll just make me all the more less likely to impulse buy for something that I have doubts about. It'll also mean that I'll be all the more critical of their product if the stores end up charging more.

It's our own fault though... happily paying $10 for those VOTC figures when they weren't worth more than the basics. :ermm:

JON9000

10-16-2006, 02:57 PM

It's our own fault though... happily paying $10 for those VOTC figures when they weren't worth more than the basics. :ermm:

That is very true. I have bought 11 premium figures:

VOTC Vader
VOTC Stormie x3
VOTC Lando

VTSC Luke X-wing
VTSC Tusken
VTSC Biker Scout x3

Lots of people bought every figure released. This sent a message to Hasbro that people are willing to pay more, so I guess I have only myslef to blame.

I do worry about companies getting too greedy and destroying th egolden goose... that's what destroyed the comic book and sports card industry in the mid-nineties. They priced themselves out of the youth market and became an adult hobby. I can draw parallels... chase variants, slabbing, clamshelling...

I think we'll survive, but I believe $5-$6 is the proper range for these things, about the price of a Mcvalue meal.

shammykenobi

10-16-2006, 04:41 PM

I agree that these figures shouldn't cost more than a Mcvalue meal. The figures we buy are the same size as the vintage figures that sold for around $3.00 back in the late 70's through mid 80's and that there hasn't really been much change in the past 20 years (other than articulation and paint apps and detail-but it's the same dang plastic and it's injection molded the same way). Figuring in inflation and all that other economic mumbo-jumbo, then $5.00-$6.00 seems pretty reasonable. Except when you consider that LOTR figures that were twice the size were selling for that amount a year or two ago.

sith_killer_99

10-16-2006, 04:47 PM

They're $6.63 at my wal-mart too. I hate it when stores like wal-mart and target don't have the same retail or sales prices from store to store.

Yeah, back in Kentucky I would go out on Tuesdays (DVD day) and I found that 2 stores had sale prices for new DVD's at $16.97 while another store...RIGHT IN BETWEEN THE OTHER 2...had the same DVD for $14.97.

Needless to say, cheap SOB that I am I always went for the $14.97 store, they were also the first store to sell out of new releases.:sur:

I guess I have only myslef to blame.

WHAT?:eek: That's like Coca-Cola saying, "Hey millions of people buy our product everyday, we can triple our profit if we raise the price of Coke nationwide."

Then Coke drinks say "I guess it's our fault for buying Coke." when the price of a bottle goes up to $3.00!

Hasbro kicking out a limited line with vintage reproduction cards inside custom protective clam shells and charging $9.99 each is a far cry from saying, "Hey we can get away with re-packing the old CommTech Han that TRU couldn't clearance for $1.99 six years ago and sell 'em for $7.50."

If Hasbro thinks I'm buying this they are insane and any parent who buys it for their kid should lose their kids to Social Services because they are obviously unstable...ok maybe not, but you get the idea.:crazed:

It's bad enough the price of their ships has skyrocket so bad I won't even give 'em a second thought. Those things are gonna collect dust for months, then store will clearance them. The down side is this kills future chances at getting something new and original.

I blame Hasbro for trying to squeeze every last drop of blood from collectors, we can only buy soo many Red 5 X-Wings, soo many snowspeeders, etc. I remember POTF2 A-Wings and Darth Vader TIE Fighters sitting on the shelves of TRU for $4.99 each just six or seven years ago. Now Hasbro wants $30-$45 for these same size ships! Price jumps like this are why I droped the ships from my collecting.

Let's face it, these figures are only worth $3.99 TOPS but we are willing to pay $4.99-$5.99 because they mean something to US. If Hasbro continues to raise prices many collectors will drop the line all together. Most SW collectors are into other lines anyway, Marvel, McFarlane, DC Direct, heck Hot Wheels are still just .99 cents and my daughter loves them every bit as much as Star Wars!

JON9000

10-16-2006, 06:17 PM

and you know, it could just be the retailer deciding it wants to squeeze more money out of the line.

There was also some talk about the Sith Infiltrator, and it seems retailers are in love with the $20 price point, so perhaps blaming Hasbro is out of line.

JediTricks

10-16-2006, 07:15 PM

I agree that these figures shouldn't cost more than a Mcvalue meal. The figures we buy are the same size as the vintage figures that sold for around $3.00 back in the late 70's through mid 80's and that there hasn't really been much change in the past 20 years (other than articulation and paint apps and detail-but it's the same dang plastic and it's injection molded the same way). Figuring in inflation and all that other economic mumbo-jumbo, then $5.00-$6.00 seems pretty reasonable. Except when you consider that LOTR figures that were twice the size were selling for that amount a year or two ago.Actually, the cost of manufacturing has gone DOWN since then as technology has gotten more advanced. Materials are easier to work with, molds are easier to tool up with tighter tolerances for better detail, paint systems have become more detailed.

shammykenobi

10-16-2006, 09:43 PM

Actually, the cost of manufacturing has gone DOWN since then as technology has gotten more advanced. Materials are easier to work with, molds are easier to tool up with tighter tolerances for better detail, paint systems have become more detailed.

Wow...I didn't realize that...i figured that had gone up a bit, but not by very much...anyway, I remember reading somewhere that the action-figure market isn't the same as it was in the vintage star wars days. Apparently a big part of family income that is spent on toys/children's entertainment goes to video games now...so I guess maybe since action figures aren't representing a huge market share, that the manufacturers have to make up for it by increasing the price of action figures...and also added to that is the fact that, as bad as i hate to admit it, the prequels weren't nearly as popular with kids as the originals were with all of us when we were kids...most of us probably remember life before video games, when there was nothing to do but play with toys, which lead to playsets and bigger ships (i.e. AT-AT, imperial shuttle, etc)...So now kids would rather have a video game than a ship or playset and parents would probably rather spend money on a video game than a toy...I'd bet if we didn't have video games, that there would be a bigger market for ships and playsets.

jedi master sal

10-17-2006, 08:25 AM

I'd bet if we didn't have video games, that there would be a bigger market for ships and playsets.

And therein lies the problem. Technology has made so many advances that it takes away much of one's imagination. Heck, I didnt get a video game system until way late in my teens. That was in about 1986-87. I was 16 at the time. So all before that I had my SW, LEGOs, and G.I. Joes to keep me busy and occupied. I could sit and play for hours with my toys and not just for one day and then out them aside, but for days upon end. I'm certain there were times when I'd play with my toys everyday for weeks.

Now with Video games and even more-so the internet and other things like cell phones, and blackberrys, the days of physical toys are dwindling at an ever increasing rate.

Okay, so I say fine, Hasbro either you want to raise prices OR you retailor clients want to raise prices, fine. Then make ALL of the figures and ships WE want and be done with it. Don't waste our time by stringing us along for years for the few figures we want. Make the stuff weve been asking, nay begging, nay clamoring for, for years. No excuses.

You want to raise prices, we want certain figures/ships. MAKE IT HAPPEN!

Kids are moving on to "bigger and better" things. Which means digital/virtual, etc. NOT little plastic men. WE the collecting community are your true market. serve us well by giving us what we continue to ask for and we will do well by you, by buying your products.

JON9000

10-17-2006, 10:59 AM

And therein lies the problem. Technology has made so many advances that it takes away much of one's imagination. Heck, I didnt get a video game system until way late in my teens. That was in about 1986-87.

I got my first game system in 82. I was 7. I still played with my figures.

Kids still play with figures today. They are the market, and they dictate what gets made and how. I would rather have an infiltrator that a kid can afford to have and play with than some ridiculously large infiltrator that sits on an adult's shelf.

When a formerly kiddie hobby surrenders to the "adult" market, the hobby ends up sucking like comics.

While I share your frustration, my surrender to economic reality has made it relatively easy to deal with. If we want wonderfully scaled replicas, MR is the company we should be petitioning, not Hasbro.

shammykenobi

10-17-2006, 12:18 PM

While I share your frustration, my surrender to economic reality has made it relatively easy to deal with. If we want wonderfully scaled replicas, MR is the company we should be petitioning, not Hasbro.[/QUOTE]

AMEN!!!!! I agree one-hundred percent!!!! I mean look at what sideshow is doing with the twelve-inch line. Hasbro couldn't make a decent twelve-inch at the $20-$30 price point, so they hand it off to sideshow and now we have great looking 12-inch figures that only collectors buy at twice the former retail price. And sideshow isn't having any problem with sell-through on these, they all usually sell-out in a few hours when they go on the website for pre-sell. Hasbro could hand-off the playset and vehicle line to someone else if they wanted to and it would sell.

I don't agree with the idea that collectors represent the star wars buying community at large. It's still kid-based. I have two friends that both have sons that are 3-4 yrs old. They're just old enough to start getting into superheroes and the like. I was with one friend last year when he bought his son the batmobile and two or three batman figures. Another friend called to tell me that his son loves spiderman and they just took him to the store to buy him spiderman stuff. It hasn't happened with star wars yet, but I hope that it will. And when they head to the store, they will by han and luke and leia and vader and c-3po and stromtroopers and obi wan etc...they won't buy momaw nadon or hem dazon or any of those, because they're just not important to most 4 yr. old kids. And my two friends are representative of people our age (30 soemthings) that were casual star wars fans as kids. If I asked either one of them who greedo is, they would probably stare at me blankly. My point is that there are ALOT of casual fans our age that have fond memories of star wars and would happily by their kids star wars action figures, but not the obscure collectors figures, because they're just not that important to them. And just about everyone who is old enough to have kids right now, are old enough to have grown up with star wars or at least have been aware of it enough that when they go to the store with their kids and see the action figures they know who the main characters are.

jedi master sal

10-17-2006, 01:25 PM

AMEN!!!!! I agree one-hundred percent!!!! I mean look at what sideshow is doing with the twelve-inch line. Hasbro couldn't make a decent twelve-inch at the $20-$30 price point, so they hand it off to sideshow and now we have great looking 12-inch figures that only collectors buy at twice the former retail price. And sideshow isn't having any problem with sell-through on these, they all usually sell-out in a few hours when they go on the website for pre-sell. Hasbro could hand-off the playset and vehicle line to someone else if they wanted to and it would sell.

I have to disagree here. True the SSC figures sol through, but now look at how many complaints they are getting. I'd bet it's at least as much as Hasbro got when they were making the 12inch figures. What's worse is that SSC figs are nearly site unseen. Okay so you get pics from the net, but many MANY people have been disappointed when they got the actual product. There's not physical store to take them back to, so they are either stuck with it or have to try and sell it off (something that shouldn't be neccessary).

Personally I never looked at Hasbro 12inch for spot on accuracy. I think they did a pretty good job at the pricepoint they set.

SSC stuff only sells out so quickly because of the limited nature of them. If they were to have an open ended number of figures, I firmly believe they wouldn't sell well at all. Some people would immediately jump on the new figures. Some of them would give their reviews on any number of SW collecting sites and many people based on those reviews would decide to buy or not. The way it is now, you buy it regardless, then deal with it once you get it. I'll be honest I'm just a bit hesitant on the Jabba sets I purchased, but since that WAS seen live by fellow long time SSGers, who gave their positive accoutn of it, I bought it. At least with the Hasbro stuff, if you didn't like the scultp of a face, you just wouldn't buy the figure. You didn't have to invest into it before hand and you didn't have to go through selling it if you didn't like it.

I don't agree with the idea that collectors represent the star wars buying community at large. It's still kid-based...
And when they head to the store, they will by han and luke and leia and vader and c-3po and stromtroopers and obi wan etc...they won't buy momaw nadon or hem dazon or any of those, because they're just not important to most 4 yr. old kids...
My point is that there are ALOT of casual fans our age that have fond memories of star wars and would happily by their kids star wars action figures, but not the obscure collectors figures, because they're just not that important to them.

The sheer fact that we are getting "collectible" tins, they've had a fan choice poll (several times, but I'm specifically talking about the latest one), etc, tells us they KNOW collectors are a huge part of this market. They've split the line into two collections in the past to deliniate kid figures from more collector driven characters. It's really only been since after ROTS that I've seen more kids into SW. TPM was abyssmal for the kid market in my area. AOTC didn't fair much better. So in all of that time, at least in my area it's was quite recognizable that it was we collectors who bought the lion's share of this stuff.
I still say it is. Again speaking for myself, I KNOW I represent the equivalent of many kids purchases for SW. At $6K a year, that's a good many kids purchases for SW it would take to get there. (And that's not all I collect either, I do collect other toy lines.)

About casual fans, that's just it, they are casual. They DON'T drive the market. Tha's in part why we still see the Luke's and Han's and Vader's yes, but just why do you think that now after so long, Hasbro is cranking out MORE minor and EU charactes than ever before? They know where their bread is buttered. They know they can't keep cranking out waves of nothing but the main characters.

Why? easy enough to answer. Collectors already have all of the main characters. Heck even the kids do for the most part. Casual fans, might buy the main characters, but since they do it "casually" their collective purchasing power is negligible to say the least.

For as long as SW toys last we all know we're going to see main characters. We just don't think it's too much to ask for the definative versions of each one and be done with them. We're much more apt to buying a new character than the 11th issue of cantina Han for instance. Even kids are getting savvy to that too. Again, casual fans, meh...

Whether it's retailors to blame for the price increase or Hasbro themselves, it doesn't matter. I think many of us are saying that if they are going to raise prices, yet again, then just give us what we've been asking for. What good is it for the store to stock unwanted product? If it just sits because either the price is too high, or it's the umpteenth reissue of a figure, well something has got to give.

I think we can all agree that it's NOT the line we want to see give. For retailors it's probably that they want us collectors to go away. For us it's that we want certain characters. Were Hasbro to manufacture those figures, we'd buy them, THEN we WOULD go away... (much to the chagrin of WalMart, Target, etc. They're just to stupid to realize it. Then they will liquidate their SW toys and the line will truly die.)

shammykenobi

10-17-2006, 01:52 PM

I still think that even with the problems that sideshow is having, that their figures are better than hasbro's. And the problem so far has been, that certain figures didn't match up to the prototype photos. And I agree that it sucks, to have to buy them site unseen. I have 3 now and 2 on the way and so far i've not been disappointed. And I do realize that these figures sell out because of their limited run and production size, but it still doesn't change the fact that sideshow is making quality 12 inch figures that collectors have been wanting for years.

You make some really good points sal, and I agree with you that hasbro should make a definitive version of every character with all needed accdesories and be done with it. Like the figures that came with the evolutions sets last year. Those were the best versions of those characters and they came with plenty of accessories. I wouldn't have any problem paying more for those figures.

As for casual fans and casual collectors, I think they would have to account for a pretty big part of the buying community I don't think their contribution is negligible. I agree with you that they don't drive the market, but neither do the collectors. How many years now have we been asking for a sith infiltrator and they finally get to it. Or what about Yarna or The ice cream maker guy? If collectors "drove" the market they would have given us what we wanted a long time ago. Until hasbro finally decides to release some numbers or do POP surveys, we won't know for sure how the market is split up. And they've been really tight lipped about this in the past. But judging from the current product that is out, and given hasbro's attitude and responses to questions, it seems that the 3 3/4 market is kid driven. The opposite of that is the twelve-inch market, which is a collector driven market, thus they handed the line of to sideshow. If that had been a kid driven market we would have seen alot more of it in stores at the $20 pricepoint, but those never sold because the figures were bad and collectors wouldn't lay out the cash for crappy product. If those had sold well at retail and kids were buying them, then we would still be seeing them in the stores.

shammykenobi

10-17-2006, 02:21 PM

We're much more apt to buying a new character than the 11th issue of cantina Han for instance. Even kids are getting savvy to that too. Again, casual fans, meh.../QUOTE]

So you really think that most collectors buy every version of the basic figures that comes out? It seems that from the amount of money you spend and a few other things that you've said that you're a completist? or carded collector?

I only buy figures that I like and that I want to open. I never buy a figure out of obligation or to keep carded. Which brings me to a question that I've been wondering about for awhile: Why the heck does everyone keep figures carded? Do you think it looks better that way? If so then fine, but I think that the real reason most people are carded collectors is because they think that 10 to 20 years down the road they're going to be sitting on a fortune, just like someone would be now, if they had a complete vintage carded collection. The problem is, with everyone doing it, there's an over abundance of it and the price doesn't go up. The reason that the vintage stuff is so expensive carded is because it's scarce. I'm probably not saying anything that everyone doesn't already know, but after 11 years of new star wars toys if the price was going to go up on this stuff, then it already would have.

JediTricks

10-17-2006, 04:12 PM

anyway, I remember reading somewhere that the action-figure market isn't the same as it was in the vintage star wars days. Apparently a big part of family income that is spent on toys/children's entertainment goes to video games now...so I guess maybe since action figures aren't representing a huge market share, that the manufacturers have to make up for it by increasing the price of action figures...That's not exactly how it was, in 1978 the amount of money spent on toys in the average American household was extremely low, the toy buying trends we now know didn't really kick in till about 1984 when Star Wars stopped being the only big seller on the block as GI Joe: RAH started hitting its stride and Transformers & Go-Bots were released (yes, Go-Bots were a hot seller at first, they helped retrend the toy market to what it is today).

By the way you old farts, Atari was a huge seller in the early '80s and the Nintendo's NES sold huge from '86 on ('85 was not a great year for it), so stop saying "boo hoo, kids today are getting distracted by video games, not like when I was a kid", that's a load. :p

Kids are the minority in Star Wars buying right now I believe, but they are the power base, casual collectors in general are the market to strive for because they are the market that grows while hardcore collectors are the market that shrinks. My guess is the market is currently 70/30 collectors to kids, it used to be the other way around until a huge price increase from $5 to $7 occurred... oh, and "The Phantom Menace" came out. 1998 was the year the numbers flip-flopped, kids abandoned Star Wars collecting superfast when Ep 1 came out and prices went up - hmm, maybe that's not so coincidental.

decadentdave

10-17-2006, 04:23 PM

I will never forget Christmas 1982. I was stranded at a truck stop for 3 days with my grandparents on my way home and we were caught in a blizzard. I was so excited to get home because I knew that a new Colecovision would be waiting for me and I wanted to play Donkey Kong and Zaxxon. Christmas came 2 days late that year but when I got home I ripped open that Colecovision and played it non-stop for the rest of my Christmas break. I graduated to NES around 1986 but to this day Colecovision was the most fun video game system I've had until I got the first Sony Playstation somewhere around '95.

JON9000

10-17-2006, 04:24 PM

By the way you old farts, Atari was a huge seller in the early '80s and the Nintendo's NES sold huge from '86 on ('85 was not a great year for it), so stop saying "boo hoo, kids today are getting distracted by video games, not like when I was a kid", that's a load. :p.

COLECOVISION!!!!!

Kids are the minority in Star Wars buying right now I believe, but they are the power base, casual collectors in general are the market to strive for because they are the market that grows while hardcore collectors are the market that shrinks. My guess is the market is currently 70/30 collectors to kids, it used to be the other way around until a huge price increase from $5 to $7 occurred... oh, and "The Phantom Menace" came out. 1998 was the year the numbers flip-flopped, kids abandoned Star Wars collecting superfast when Ep 1 came out and prices went up - hmm, maybe that's not so coincidental.

Years without media support have tended toward higher prices and more collector oriented items. We'll be getting TV support soon, so maybe that will drive up kid interest and lower prices again!

shammykenobi

10-17-2006, 04:24 PM

Go-Bots were released (yes, Go-Bots were a hot seller at first, they helped retrend the toy market to what it is today).

I remember go-bots. I had a bunch of them.

By the way you old farts, Atari was a huge seller in the early '80s and the Nintendo's NES sold huge from '86 on ('85 was not a great year for it), so stop saying "boo hoo, kids today are getting distracted by video games, not like when I was a kid", that's a load. :p

The atari 2600 was released in 82 and was immediately popular with those that could afford it. ROTJ came out the year after that and by 84 the star wars line as we knew it then was done. For the entirety of the lines based on Star Wars and The empire strikes back there wasn't any video game competition. And the video games back then weren't great. I had a 2600 and thought it was fun and that the games were o.k. If there had been video games back then like there are now, I'm not too sure how interested in action figures I would have been. Video games have changed ALOT more than action figures have in the past twenty years.

But to my credit and other kids like me, video games didn't really "take" with me. I liked them and had fun from about 8-11 yrs old, but I didn't get a nintendo when those came out. I would have much rather had action figures.

TheCivilCollector

10-17-2006, 05:05 PM

By the way you old farts, Atari was a huge seller in the early '80s and the Nintendo's NES sold huge from '86 on ('85 was not a great year for it), so stop saying "boo hoo, kids today are getting distracted by video games, not like when I was a kid", that's a load. :p

NEVER A TRUER WORD HATH BEEN SPOKEN!!!:thumbsup:

Applause for that one, JT. All my friends' kids play with toys all the time, even though they play videogames, too. They don't stop talking about Avatar and Ben 10- I guess they're the big ones right now.

El Chuxter

10-17-2006, 05:11 PM

Not saying that it's universal, but parents were a little more willing to b-slap the kids and say, "Get off that damned Atari!"

And the TV shows may have been 30-minute ads for toys, but they seemed to try to come up with stories. Ever try to watch Pokemon or Yugi-Oh? A bunch of morons running around playing the stupid card game and talking about how you have to have the chase cards. C'mon, Hollywood, put a little effort into it.

TheCivilCollector

10-17-2006, 05:22 PM

Not saying that it's universal, but parents were a little more willing to b-slap the kids and say, "Get off that damned Atari!"

And the TV shows may have been 30-minute ads for toys, but they seemed to try to come up with stories. Ever try to watch Pokemon or Yugi-Oh? A bunch of morons running around playing the stupid card game and talking about how you have to have the chase cards. C'mon, Hollywood, put a little effort into it.

Gonna have to disagree with that, Chux. I had friends that used to sit around guiding a red square around a maze for hours. Myself, I didn't have a videogame until the NES came out, but I remeber marathon sessions of Mario and Zelda, too.

Regarding shows, have you seen Avatar or any of the stuff coming out of Nick Studios? DEFINITELY a step above the stuff we had when we were kids, story-wise, quality-wise, etc.

dindae

10-17-2006, 05:29 PM

I think the main issue is segmentation. There are so many cartoons and movies out there for kids its hard for on to stay at the top for long. Growing up in the 80's there were cartoons on the one UHF station for 3 hours or so after school and Saturday morning and that was it. So probably 30 shows and maybe 15 had toy lines. Now we have Nickelodeon, Cartoon Network, Toon Disney, WB, Fox, etc. Every year there are multiple new toy lines and muliple toy lines they fail. This constant churn means that toy company have to be the "hot item" that year or they are in danger of losing shelf space. Then you have to make sure your figures are top notch with every point of articulation possible and still keep it at a price parents will still give into when being pestered. I know when GI Joe came out with 11 points of articulation and interchangable backpacks I held out for about a month with my lame 5 points of articulation SW figs. So I guess the market has created it's own cannibalistic world and forced toys to be the it thing or gone tomorrow.

I don't know how much video games are a factor. I know the ones that I played growing up were only so interesting. You either could beat them in 30 minutes or they were imposible to beat. Now they are quite a bit more invovled and interactive.

jedi master sal

10-17-2006, 05:37 PM

So you really think that most collectors buy every version of the basic figures that comes out? It seems that from the amount of money you spend and a few other things that you've said that you're a completist? or carded collector?

From my experiences here and on other message boards, there is a large number of folk who do buy one or every or almost every figure that comes out. Some do to be completist, some like the new card designs, etc.

But it's obvious you DON'T know me. Ask any of the old-timers here on the site, they can tell you what kind of a collector I am. But I'll save you the hassle, Im an open/extreme army builder. (Here's a few pics to whet your appetite):
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y160/jedi_master_sal/Front_JTA_SM-wm_1321.jpg
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y160/jedi_master_sal/3_3-4_JTA_SM-wm_1327.jpg
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y160/jedi_master_sal/Front_view_Utapau_clones_SM-wm_1272.jpg
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y160/jedi_master_sal/Partial_BE_view_SM-wm_1248.jpg

I mention the Han because I'm just plain TIRED of seeing it again on shelves. It's an inferior sculpt. Compared to what you say, well the VOTC one was good. But even if we didn't have that one to comare it to, it's obvious the Han I'm talking about is just plain overdone. Articulation is the key here. They (Hasbro and/or retailors) are goign to expect us to pay more, well we expect them to make and sell better prodcuts then. Plain and simple. If I'm to be convinced to buy yet another Han, Luke, Leia, they better not just be upgrades, but the BEST possible figure made. Not "to date", but forever.

Kids ARE getting tired of seeing the same characters as well. Just this past Sunday I was out on a LARGE toy run (over 200 miles travelled by car) and at one Wal*Mart, I heard a kid say to whom I presume to be his mom, "Why do they always have the same old crappy figures. There's TOO many Vaders!" I had to chuckle at that and mentioned that there would be some new ones along in a couople of weeks. He got mad because he wanted them NOW...

Now I see the parallel between collectors and kids (and yes, even when others call US kids). But the point is, if it's these little bundles of JOY exclaiming they want new stuff now, and they are supposed to be the driving force in the market, then where's the new stuff??

Collectors and kids alike want new products.

Let's face reality here, today's kids are tomorrow collectors. The kids who started buying the toys from TPM are 7 years older now. At what age are kids considered to still be kids buying SW toys to when they become kids "collecting" SW toys?

Hard to say, but I have a distinct feeling we are seeing more kids "collect" SW than buying them to strictly play with them. Oh, they may play with them more than we, but I can bet there are some who are setting them up in scenes on shelves and leaving them be. That's collecting.

So okay, let's look at the kids who just started buying when ROTS came out. The reasonable demographic age for that bunch would be 7-11 year olds. How much longer are they going to keep buying now that there are no other movies?
I know, I know, people are going to say, well there's the 2 TV shows. How many kids really know about those? REALLY? And even if tehy do, knowing kids tendency to drift to the next big thing, it's doubtful, nay very unlikely that they will stick around for 2 more years before a new Star Wars productions comes to light. So who's driving the market during those times???

You got it, the collectors are. So WHY shouldn't Hasbro be listening to us now then??

Okay, so some of those kids who dropped SW MAY come back, but those TV shows BETTER be damn good or they'll lose interest quick. Besides, once they've een that they've missed out on several years of toys, some will become discouraged and drop SW altogether. It's going to be we collectors who stick it out through it all that will keep the line going.

I have to admit, as I've done in the last couple of weeks, that I just don't think I have it in me anymore to collect alot and over the long haul. I'll buy new figures/army builders, but even that is getting tiresome and expensive. The shows may renew interest, but unless Hasbro capitalizes on the popularity immediately, and doesn't take 3-4 years to put out popular characters from those shows, then interest will wane quickly and the SW toy market will die out.

Wow, I've just put way too many words to screen here. I've gotta say that I'm really tired of all the extra work it seems to take into collecting. I never imagined this for myself and I bet many of you didn't either. Okay, so we got hooked early, then came back to it. But did you all think you'd spend alot of time online, talking about SW, planning on what or where to buy SW, cataloging your collection, boxing up and sotring your collection?

It's just too much. I'd like Hasbro to come come out with figures we've wanted for years, so that I can just happily quit and never look back. But I know they won't do that. They will string us along for as long as possible, give us that one or two heavily desired fig per year to keep some interest going, meanwhile jacking up the price. Hmm, I think I'll have to go cold turkey or not at all. It's just when to do that? I've said 2007 will be my last big year for collecting, maybe, or maybe after the TV shows tank. Personally I'd rather it be sooner than later. But, (and I'm sure I'm not the only one who feels this way), I've got so much time (and money) invested into this, that it's hard to just "walk away." No I'm not in this for any monetary investment, I think most people will catch the drift though. And it's this vey thing that Hasbro knows, that they feel they can just keep putting out whatever, despite our pleas NOT too. (Force Battlers anyone? SW cycles? Now the tins to a hefty degree.)

Well, it's quittin' time here at work....out.

shammykenobi

10-17-2006, 06:04 PM

Wow master sal...you wrote a novel !!! I'm with you on collecting becoming too much work. I live less than a half-mile from a wal-mart and sometimes it's more hassle than it's worth going down there. Haven't seen any of the endor wave, but i'll be danged if they ain't re-stocked with HV GB and vader and c-3po's. Forutnately I'm an opener and a small army-builder. I have 4 each of the different versions of clones...I don't have the space, time or money to set up bigger dioramas, so I do dioramas with 3 or 4 figures in it...it's easier and looks better. Less is more for me. Anyhow, I think I may agree that collectors drive the market during non-movie years or non-movie lines...as far as re-packs wahat do you think that hasbro should do? I know that it's aggrevating for us, but I can't help but think about the kid that walks into the store with his mom or dad and walks out w/o anything because they didn't have han or luke or vader.

plasticfetish

10-17-2006, 07:03 PM

By the way you old farts, Atari was a huge seller in the early '80s and the Nintendo's NES sold huge from '86 on ('85 was not a great year for it), so stop saying "boo hoo, kids today are getting distracted by video games, not like when I was a kid", that's a load. :pHear, hear!!!

The atari 2600 was released in 82 and was immediately popular with those that could afford it.The 2600 was released in October of 1977. The Atari 5200 came out in 1982. It was designed to compete with the Intellivision, and then also a bit later the Colecovision.

I got an Atari 800 computer in '81, so I had no need for any of them. :p

Blue2th

10-17-2006, 07:14 PM

"When I was a kid, we didn't HAVE no fancy-shmancy vidieo games"

shammykenobi

10-17-2006, 07:32 PM

Hear, hear!!!

The 2600 was released in October of 1977. The Atari 5200 came out in 1982. It was designed to compete with the Intellivision, and then also a bit later the Colecovision.

I got an Atari 800 computer in '81, so I had no need for any of them. :p

I stand corrected. Maybe it was the 5200 I had...did it take awhile for the 2600 to catch on?

decadentdave

10-17-2006, 07:37 PM

I had the 5200 (that console ruled, btw) and I had a 2600 and Intellivision. Shoot, I even had PONG!

shammykenobi

10-17-2006, 07:40 PM

here's a link about the history of the 2600. Before '82 it was called the VCS and wasn't terribly popular...I could go on but i'll just let you guys read the article.

http://www.classicgaming.com/museum/2600/

TheCivilCollector

10-18-2006, 01:50 AM

"When I was a kid, we didn't HAVE no fancy-shmancy vidieo games"

"We used to play 'Stare at the Sun' and we LIKED IT!!"

I recall the 2600 (or VCS) being pretty popular until about when "Pac-Man" and "ET" came out (81-ish?). I knew nobody with either a 5200 or 7800, but I knew a few people with a Colecovision. Now that thing rocked- Donkey Kong JUST LIKE THE ARCADE!!! Well, almost.

Atari (aka: the Tramiels) BLEW it with the 7800. Nintendo originally wanted to license all thier games to play on it, and the Tramiels were trying to get Atari out of the console business into the personal computer market. If you've ever read an interview with Sam Tramiel, he whines like a little girl about how much he got screwed.

decadentdave

10-18-2006, 02:07 AM

And it must be a painful reminder when he sees that neon Atari sign prominently displayed in Blade Runner, the film's glaring failed prediction along with flying cars (unless Atari has an unexpected miraculous comeback in the next 10 years anyway).

shammykenobi

10-18-2006, 11:00 AM

I recall the 2600 (or VCS) being pretty popular until about when "Pac-Man" and "ET" came out (81-ish?). I knew nobody with either a 5200 or 7800, but I knew a few people with a Colecovision. Now that thing rocked- Donkey Kong JUST LIKE THE ARCADE!!! Well, almost.

The funny thing is, I remember the 2600 being hugely popular from 82 until 84 or so. But that's just based on my memories from when I was a kid. I remember begging my mom for one and I think I finally got one for christmas or my birthday.

Ya know I just realized that this thread started off talking about the price hikes and now we're talking about atari's and video games. But back to the price hikes. I paid $28 for the ROTS collector tin last night, just to get the white at-rt driver. The cool thing is the anakin that's came with it is the evolutions version with ball-jointed head. You can take the head that came with the ROTS crispy anakin (the regular one, not the charred one) and swap them out and you have mean anakin or regular anakin. But it did kinda suck to get the crappy ROTS mace again. Anyhow, at $28 the price per figure still works out to be almost retail on individual figures. I mean how much do you figure the collector tin would cost if they were selling it separate? $5-$10? Anyway, the best figure value for the money is the battlepacks. At $20-$25 for 5 figures, we're coming in way under retail per figure. I'm beginning to think that the future of star wars collecting may be in these.

JON9000

10-18-2006, 11:07 AM

there is a large number of folk who do buy one or every or almost every figure that comes out. Some do to be completist, some like the new card designs, etc.

If kids aren't to blame for repacks, then it is exactly these types of folks who are behind the tendency for Hasbro to churn out repacks. This entire line of logic makes zero sense to me:

"I want to buy every variation of every carded figure."

"I do not want to buy repacks of figures I already have."

Therefore,

"IN ORDER TO COMPLETE MY DESIRE TO HAVE EVERY CARD VARIATION, I AM FORCED TO BUY ITEMS I DO NOT WANT OTHERWISE."

Boo-frickety-hoo. If the people who buy every single variation on the planet would only buy NEW figures (surprise, like I do), Hasbro would cease repacking so many old ones, and make more new ones. If somebody is crazy enough to spend $7.00 because they want a flipping piece of cardboard, they deserve to get robbed.

I say if this thing is upsetting, quit buying, and everyone will truly be better off.

I haven't bought a Commtech Han since COMMTECH HAN was originally on the shelf in the 90s!

JediTricks

10-18-2006, 03:06 PM

Years without media support have tended toward higher prices and more collector oriented items. We'll be getting TV support soon, so maybe that will drive up kid interest and lower prices again!I don't buy that excuse, look at POTF2, it ran high before the Special Editions were even announced, '96 was a strong year. I know Hasbro is so devoid of advertising ideas that they can only hang their proverbial hat on whatever movies or TV Lucas vomits out, but there is life to Star Wars collecting beyond just "there's a new movie/show this year", and it wouldn't hurt if Hasbro actually did some quality advertising aiming the line at kids - what little ads they do have are either not for the figures or don't display the figures in cool play themes.

I remember go-bots. I had a bunch of them. Yeah, me too. I lost them all over time, bought a couple of my favorites off ebay a few years back.

The atari 2600 was released in 82 and was immediately popular with those that could afford it. ROTJ came out the year after that and by 84 the star wars line as we knew it then was done. For the entirety of the lines based on Star Wars and The empire strikes back there wasn't any video game competition. There's only 1 flaw with what you said... Atari 2600 was released in October 1977, only 5 months after Star Wars. '82 is simply when the name was changed to "2600".

And the video games back then weren't great. I had a 2600 and thought it was fun and that the games were o.k. If there had been video games back then like there are now, I'm not too sure how interested in action figures I would have been. Video games have changed ALOT more than action figures have in the past twenty years.I knew a lot of folks who would spend several days at a time playing games, marathon sessions of games that didn't even have endings. People were drooling for video games back then.

NEVER A TRUER WORD HATH BEEN SPOKEN!!!:thumbsup:

Applause for that one, JT. All my friends' kids play with toys all the time, even though they play videogames, too. They don't stop talking about Avatar and Ben 10- I guess they're the big ones right now.Yeah, I was at Target last week and kids were going through the toy section with their parents talking about which Ben 10 figures they liked and why this one was cool and the big boxed guy was the one they wanted to get, I wasn't even there but for maybe 5-10 minutes yet that line had a bunch of different kids excited.

I think what we're seeing now is that toys are an overdiversified market with tons of options while video games are pretty much a 1-at-a-time thing, so it looks like kids are more into video games because they dedicate interest on only a small number of interests there while the high number of choices on the toy aisle dillute the interest factor - so it takes a breakout toy hit to really develop a strong showing.

Not saying that it's universal, but parents were a little more willing to b-slap the kids and say, "Get off that damned Atari!"But there was no save feature. :sad:

And the TV shows may have been 30-minute ads for toys, but they seemed to try to come up with stories. Ever try to watch Pokemon or Yugi-Oh? A bunch of morons running around playing the stupid card game and talking about how you have to have the chase cards. C'mon, Hollywood, put a little effort into it.Crap, I forgot to mention the 1982 change in the FCC law allowing cartoons to be essentially adverts for toys. I actually did watch Pokemon more than a few times back in the day, it wasn't as bad as you think, it conveyed a moving storyline and taught life lessons about friendship and depending on others and loyalty without being preachy - just because the goals were foreign to us adults doesn't mean they didn't have value. I couldn't spend 10 minutes with Yu-Gi-Oh though.

Then you have to make sure your figures are top notch with every point of articulation possible and still keep it at a price parents will still give into when being pestered. I know when GI Joe came out with 11 points of articulation and interchangable backpacks I held out for about a month with my lame 5 points of articulation SW figs. That was me as well, though part of it was that in '84 when GI Joe:RAH got really interesting, Star Wars got really lame - I couldn't find main characters I wanted and there was a ton of "who the hell is that?" guys. GI Joe also catered to my love of cool vehicles and tons of accessories, with Star Wars it'd be 1 accessory and a handful of vehicles. And GI Joe guys could actually bend at the waist, do side-kicks, nod their heads, all sorts of stuff that made them more expressive and fun, and their sculpting was better.

From my experiences here and on other message boards, there is a large number of folk who do buy one or every or almost every figure that comes out. Some do to be completist, some like the new card designs, etc.Yeah, but that's a limited worldview, you're seeing only people who are devoted enough AND interested in talking to others about it, not every hardcore collector is on the internet or someone you've seen.

I mention the Han because I'm just plain TIRED of seeing it again on shelves. It's an inferior sculpt. Compared to what you say, well the VOTC one was good.VOTC was good, not quite great, the likeness isn't spot-on, the forearm pose is awkward, the legs are close together, and the vest is sculpted on. I am sick of seeing Han figures over and over, either the body isn't good enough or the likeness isn't good enough, the last Han figure I thought measured up was Han Bespin from the POTJ line - that thing is 5 years old!

Kids ARE getting tired of seeing the same characters as well. Just this past Sunday I was out on a LARGE toy run (over 200 miles travelled by car) and at one Wal*Mart, I heard a kid say to whom I presume to be his mom, "Why do they always have the same old crappy figures. There's TOO many Vaders!" I had to chuckle at that and mentioned that there would be some new ones along in a couople of weeks. He got mad because he wanted them NOW...There's a danger in that though, while you can have too many of a main character on shelves, too few means kids will have less reason to get into the line, they connect with the main guys and those main guys are what leads them into supplimentary characters - without Luke Jedi, there's less chance the kid is going to buy a Gamorrean. And it can't just be on Hasbro's stupid-*** schedule neither, kids get into this stuff at different times, and they end up breaking or losing pieces all the time and needing to buy replacements (that is a built-in aspect of the business model).

JON9000

10-23-2006, 03:42 PM

http://www.sirstevesguide.com/index.php?categoryid=13&p2_articleid=76

Well, I think this week's Q & A really took where this thread has gone and provided some insights folks needed to hear. Kids rule, collectors drool, as it stands now. Apparently the greatest hits line does well, and next year GH figs will be planogrammed separately from the regular line.

this last bit I have to wonder about... Do you think the average stock clerk is going to notice the difference?

JediTricks

10-23-2006, 04:59 PM

I think Hasbro is completely wrong about their major statements in this week's Q&A, I don't believe kids outnumber collectors, I don't believe stores are stocking Greatest Hits lines based on a planogram that separates them from new TSC figures, and all anecodtal evidence tells us that the Greatest Hits lines are not selling fabulously (I cannot speak for retailer orders, only what we're seeing on shelves).

plasticfetish

10-23-2006, 08:03 PM

Well, I think this week's Q & A really took where this thread has gone and provided some insights folks needed to hear. Kids rule, collectors drool, as it stands now. Apparently the greatest hits line does well, and next year GH figs will be planogrammed separately from the regular line.No new news there. It's the same thing we've heard from Hasbro all along, and shouldn't be a big shocker considering the fact that this has always been a kid's toy line. (It's starting to get a little old really, reading about collectors complaining that Hasbro isn't catering to them enough.) The fact is, we're collectors that collect kid's toys, and why/how we can still be demanding that this line shouldn't be geared toward that audience is beyond me. It creeps me out just a little that some people seem to want a kid's toy line that has nothing to do with kids.

this last bit I have to wonder about... Do you think the average stock clerk is going to notice the difference?No. Often times it's the Hasbro merchandisers that come in and organize their section and sort things though. After that... well, it'll just be the usual mess.

pbarnard

10-23-2006, 08:17 PM

I think Hasbro is completely wrong about their major statements in this week's Q&A, I don't believe kids outnumber collectors, I don't believe stores are stocking Greatest Hits lines based on a planogram that separates them from new TSC figures, and all anecodtal evidence tells us that the Greatest Hits lines are not selling fabulously (I cannot speak for retailer orders, only what we're seeing on shelves).

First statement, if they are, than there is a problem. People could invest in Hasbro based on that statement of kids out number collectors. That should be reported than to SEC if you can prove otherwise.

2nd, as stated elsewhere, just because Hasbro has said "do it like this" doesn't mean the minimum wage wonder who stocks it puts it out there like that. I, like many others, have seen the Greatest hit lines mixed with the early Endor Wave (Death Star Gunners, Throne Threepios, Jerjerrods).

timmae

10-23-2006, 11:06 PM

they have been 7.68 at the new supertarget in kannapolis, nc since oct 4th!

Kidhuman

10-24-2006, 12:18 AM

The whole thing of them being seperate lines gets shot down when they ship displays of the two lines mixed together. Kind of stupid if you want them seperate.

dindae

10-24-2006, 09:02 AM

I think Hasbro is completely wrong about their major statements in this week's Q&A, I don't believe kids outnumber collectors,

While I can't speak for your area I know that kids have definately taken over around here. I rarely see adults in the toy ailses, but I do see kids quite frequently. Plus if you look at the boards here there are a great number of collectors that have hung it up or downshifted to a very limited buyer. And apparently since this thread has started even more have gone over to that category.

I don't believe stores are stocking Greatest Hits lines based on a planogram that separates them from new TSC figures, and all anecodtal evidence tells us that the Greatest Hits lines are not selling fabulously (I cannot speak for retailer orders, only what we're seeing on shelves).

The Greatest hits have been out for a few months. I didn't really see them start to gum up the works until this month so maybe they don't have that data yet. I don't believe that the planogram is keeping them seperate but I do believe that the different SKUs will be able to track how the line is doing, but as I said before it is likely that the recent clog will show yet.

JediTricks

10-24-2006, 03:17 PM

While I can't speak for your area I know that kids have definately taken over around here. I rarely see adults in the toy ailses, but I do see kids quite frequently. Plus if you look at the boards here there are a great number of collectors that have hung it up or downshifted to a very limited buyer. And apparently since this thread has started even more have gone over to that category.Kids in the toy aisle, yes; kids buying SW, I have not seen that in months. Yours is the first suggestion to the contrary I've heard around here.

Luuuuuuke

10-24-2006, 11:39 PM

I very seriously doubt kids make a larger share of Star Wars purchases. No way, no how (although that doesn't mean I think Hasbro should not cater to kids first). Kids don't have the income and even if they wanted every single item(as many adults do), most kids do not have parents who will indulge their every buying impulse.

Kids also do not have this whole keep one carded, keep one loose thing; they don't army build like adults do; and they are less likely to dabble in every single SW lines like many adults.

Nor do (most) kids dabble in the fine art of scalping. That is by and large an adult venture.

Kids (who usually must be at school by 8 a.m.) also can't go to toy stores early in the morning; they also can't go to toy stores every day. Kids are unlikely to buy 6 sets of "commemorative tins" for close to $200. In fact, they are less likely to even want tins than adults.

There is no way in hell that kids purchase more Star Wars merchandise than adults do. I can't even fathom how that is possible.

Art Asylum will really have to delve into Deep Space Nine to capture me with any Star Trek.

That's basically it - my toy purchases are way down as compared with 1997 or any of the prequel movie years - or even years like 1998 or 2003 when there was still a lot I wanted being offered.

jedi master sal

10-25-2006, 01:54 PM

I very seriously doubt kids make a larger share of Star Wars purchases. No way, no how (although that doesn't mean I think Hasbro should not cater to kids first). Kids don't have the income and even if they wanted every single item(as many adults do), most kids do not have parents who will indulge their every buying impulse.

Kids also do not have this whole keep one carded, keep one loose thing; they don't army build like adults do; and they are less likely to dabble in every single SW lines like many adults.

Nor do (most) kids dabble in the fine art of scalping. That is by and large an adult venture.

Kids (who usually must be at school by 8 a.m.) also can't go to toy stores early in the morning; they also can't go to toy stores every day. Kids are unlikely to buy 6 sets of "commemorative tins" for close to $200. In fact, they are less likely to even want tins than adults.

There is no way in hell that kids purchase more Star Wars merchandise than adults do. I can't even fathom how that is possible.

This was very well said. I have to agree.
No way kids buy like collectors do. Hasbro will say, "but there's a more kid and parent to collector ratio buying." I say "bunk" to that. I almost never see kids buying or even parents for that matter. When I do, it's usually the case of teh kid BEGGING the parent for just ONE figure, let alone a ship, or tin set, etc. Conversely it's nothing for me to drop $200 in any given week on SW stuff. And knowing that there are collectors out there like me, heck even account for those that buy $100 or even $50 a week worth of stuff, how many kids does that compare to? I'd have to save an overwhelming majority.
I'd say the average kid is lucky if they get $500 worth of SW a year. Sure they're parents may drop a couple of c-notes during the holidays or a birthday, but that's a drop in the bucket compared to what we buy on an ONGOING basis.

TheCivilCollector

10-25-2006, 02:08 PM

Either way, it's going to be interesting seeing how toys fare this Holiday Season. Kids will be clamoring for the Wii or PS3, and stores are already showing record profits, even before the systems are released. Most of the stores in my area are discounting Star Wars and Transformers to make space for more product.

It makes me wonder how much it will hurt sales if the new figures come in priced at $7-8. I'm goping to go out on a limb and say that around the Holidays when collectors have less disposable income, we buy LESS. I know I do. Hell, I pretty much quit going to toy stores around mid-november until January.

Tycho

10-25-2006, 02:09 PM

This is off-topic, but real quickly, why are "Benjamins" or "Ben Franklins" referred to as C-notes? I've heard that before and think I know what it refers to, but....(thanks for the help).

TheCivilCollector

10-25-2006, 02:14 PM

I always thought it was because c = cen = hundred. Am I mistaken about this?

decadentdave

10-25-2006, 02:37 PM

Hasbro says the GB are a hit... who are they kidding?!?!? Every Walmart, Target, and TRU in my city is OVERFLOWING with them on the pegs. I haven't seen such a glut of Star Wars figures since Lionel Playworld use to have an entire aisle devoted to Kenner Star Wars figures back in the early 80's. And more are coming next year, oh goodie. Just what we need, more ROTS figures everyone already has and nobody wants to clutter up the pegs at our local retailers to give them the impression Star Wars has lost its appeal to collectors so they won't stock up on any orders for new products. And after the failure of the Unleashed exclusives and soon-to-be-clearanced Kit Fisto and Snowspeeder exclusives of which there are endcaps full of at every Target in my city, do you really think Target is going to keep selling exclusive items that they will be taking large losses on when they are forced to clearance their overstocked inventories only weeks after putting them on the sales floor? I don't know who is a bigger fool, Hasbro or Target.

plasticfetish

10-25-2006, 03:48 PM

Kids in the toy aisle, yes; kids buying SW, I have not seen that in months. Yours is the first suggestion to the contrary I've heard around here.Huh? I dunno... I've been saying that pretty much since the day I started posting here.

Kids don't have the income and even if they wanted every single item(as many adults do), most kids do not have parents who will indulge their every buying impulse.Very, true (in most cases) but for every one collector going in and buying a handful of figures, there can be 10-20 kids wandering through the toy section, who convince their parents to buy them one thing.

Kids also do not have this whole keep one carded, keep one loose thing; they don't army build like adults do; and they are less likely to dabble in every single SW lines like many adults. As I've read around here a lot recently, there aren't nearly as many collectors doing this right now either.

Nor do (most) kids dabble in the fine art of scalping. That is by and large an adult venture. On the whole, looking at the national toy market, I don't think scalpers are as big of a problem as we make them out to be. They also don't buy everything, as they tend to stick to whatever the "hot" new figure is.

Kids (who usually must be at school by 8 a.m.) also can't go to toy stores early in the morning; they also can't go to toy stores every day. Kids are unlikely to buy 6 sets of "commemorative tins" for close to $200. In fact, they are less likely to even want tins than adults. I'm gonna bet that the number of adult collectors that manage to be at those stores at opening, and can afford to shop those toy isles every single day is really very small. There's no way that they out number the quantity of children that pass through a toy section from a Sunday to Monday (opening to closing) period, to look at toys.

There is no way in hell that kids purchase more Star Wars merchandise than adults do. I can't even fathom how that is possible.Try sitting in a toy section for a month, monitoring who really buys what, and perhaps you'll be surprised. I think you'll also need to look at it on a far grander scale than just one or two stores. You need to consider everything within a region... or heck, the country.

I'd say the average kid is lucky if they get $500 worth of SW a year. Sure they're parents may drop a couple of c-notes during the holidays or a birthday, but that's a drop in the bucket compared to what we buy on an ONGOING basis.Given the volume of figure that you buy for yourself, which is extraordinary even buy most collectors standards, it doesn't seem fair to compare your buying habits to the average kid out there. I mean... no offence, but I’d be surprised if the kids in your area have ever even seen a Clone or Stormtrooper. ;)

TheCivilCollector

10-25-2006, 04:11 PM

...I’d be surprised if the kids in your area have ever even seen a Clone or Stormtrooper. ;)

Hell, PF- I'VE hardly even seen a clone or stormie in my area. Army building- gotta love it!:sad:

I really don't mind the GB collection- It gives me a chance to get some figures nabbed up by other collectors earlier. Now that they've gotten thier fill, I have a chance. And I've always been glad to get better sculpts of the older POTF2 figs.

Just yesterday I FINALLY got the ROTS Blue Coruscant Guard thanks to the GB collection.

El Chuxter

10-25-2006, 04:16 PM

Next time I see a kid in the SW aisle, I'm going to roundhouse kick him in the jaw and yell, "Yeah, m***********r!! It's your fault I'm seeing all these g*****n Wookiee Warriors! Eat s*** and die!!"

JediTricks

10-25-2006, 04:29 PM

I always thought it was because c = cen = hundred. Am I mistaken about this?
Yes, "C" is the roman numeral for 100.

Darth Cruel

10-25-2006, 04:50 PM

Lets apply some common sense to the off-topic subject. Of course there are not a bunch of 8 or 9 year-old kids spending a bunch of money on Star Wars figures as I am. They are too young to have THAT much money. I don't flinch at spending 1,000 dollars a month on 3 3/4" Hasbro, 12" Sideshow both Star Wars and LOTR, and Marvel Legends and LOTR form Toybiz and Alien and Predator, and my 12" S.W.A.T. figures. On the other hand...I do see 75 kids getting Star Wars figures bought for them by there parents (whether the kid is or is not present at the time) for every collector I see unless I go to F-n-S. I am CONSTANTLY standing next to kids looking through the figures, or dragging their parents to them and yes...very frequently, I have to sit and wait while the kid decides what figure(s) he wants and watch as he and his parents walk away occasionally with a troop-builder that I want but more often with a peg-warmer that I am glad they are buying. In fact...I actually had to make room for two moms buying the collector's tins for their 10-year-old boys two or three days ago. I avoid this by doing my hunting early (when I can...I have been too busy for the last 3 months to do any hunting). But even though I don't like it...I can't say I disbelieve Hasbro's claims.

TheCivilCollector

10-25-2006, 05:01 PM

I don't flinch at spending 1,000 dollars a month...

Damn....:eek:

I'd flinch at that. No wonder I can never find anything. (j/k)

Darth Cruel

10-25-2006, 05:05 PM

My wife flinches enough for both of us. Hell...she flinches enough for 20 or 30 people.

JON9000

10-25-2006, 05:59 PM

I very seriously doubt kids make a larger share of Star Wars purchases. No way, no how (although that doesn't mean I think Hasbro should not cater to kids first). Kids don't have the income and even if they wanted every single item(as many adults do), most kids do not have parents who will indulge their every buying impulse.

I think you are sorta right, but you underestimate the kid market. I was a kid once, and I didn't have the wallet and I didn't have overindulgent parents, but I managed to accumulate A LOT of Star Wars stuff as a kid, about half the figures and about 6-8 ships.

I didn't want every single item, either. I really wanted the main characters, which I got all of, as well as some secondaries. Which is why it is important HASBRO keep the biggies on the shelf. Kids don't want wave after wave of troop and obscure droid. Kids want R2 and Anakin.

Kids also do not have this whole keep one carded, keep one loose thing; they don't army build like adults do; and they are less likely to dabble in every single SW lines like many adults.

At this point I have to ask how many adult collectors do this anymore. I haven't kept a figure on card since 2004. I'd be willing to bet that half the people on here are "openers". I don't even get every figure, because I feel the new Garindan isn't $7 better than the old one!

Kids are unlikely to buy 6 sets of "commemorative tins" for close to $200. In fact, they are less likely to even want tins than adults.

The tins are adult collector focused items. Nobody is saying that HASBRO doesn't throw a bone to collectors, but when they do, you can't say, "look- there's a collector focused item, Hasbro must care not care about kids meaning collectors must be the priority!" That being said, the Cantina Band tin is going to move.

There is no way in hell that kids purchase more Star Wars merchandise than adults do. I can't even fathom how that is possible.

It's simple. Say there are 1,000 Jedi Master Sals out there who can afford and spend above $10,000 per year on new HASBRO SW products. That's $10 million in "hardcore" collector money. Then say there are 100,000 JON9000's out there, adults who spend $500 annually. That's $50 million in casual collector money.

Now, lets say there are 20 million kids who like Star Wars, whose parents buy them 3 figures throughout the year, and spend 40 bucks more at X-mas for vehicles. Or say instead 10 million kids whose parents buy 6 figures through out the year and spend $80 at Christmas. That's half a billion bucks.

Cut the number of kids in half to 5 million- they still dwarf collectors.

If collectors are so great, why are there a bazillion Lushros Dofines still around? No kid wants Lushros Dofine.

This was very well said. I have to agree.
No way kids buy like collectors do. Hasbro will say, "but there's a more kid and parent to collector ratio buying." I say "bunk" to that. I almost never see kids buying or even parents for that matter. When I do, it's usually the case of teh kid BEGGING the parent for just ONE figure, let alone a ship, or tin set, etc. Conversely it's nothing for me to drop $200 in any given week on SW stuff. And knowing that there are collectors out there like me, heck even account for those that buy $100 or even $50 a week worth of stuff, how many kids does that compare to? I'd have to save an overwhelming majority.
I'd say the average kid is lucky if they get $500 worth of SW a year. Sure they're parents may drop a couple of c-notes during the holidays or a birthday, but that's a drop in the bucket compared to what we buy on an ONGOING basis.

I think the internet and message boards give the illusion that the adult collector market is larger than it is. Likewise, you have to realize that next to NOBODY can spend $10,000 per year on little pieces of plastic or anything else 100% discretionary for that matter. On the level you are talking, that's enough money to create a cushy retirement were it invested instead. I am happy you make more money than Ringo Starr, but most people are not in your enviable position.

And..... I can't cry you a river when prices rise if you have that much to spend.

My wife flinches enough for both of us. Hell...she flinches enough for 20 or 30 people.

I am obviously in the wrong line of work! All these guys with the real loot!

Jayspawn

10-25-2006, 06:11 PM

Well the price hike started in my state. I visited a new Target accross town today and basic figures were $7.64. What a ripoff!

I vistited a Collector store today as well and kind of got into it with the guy who works there. He was telling me that more expensive oil is to blame for the price hikes and that the price on figures has to go up to survive anyways and that I was supposed to buy the same lame Vader figure that Hasbro has repackaged 3/4 times. What a load of crap! Not playing that game.

Tycho

10-25-2006, 11:12 PM

I saw 2 kids getting Star Wars figures today at Toys R Us:

both were with their moms, both probably 10 years old or younger.

One wanted all Wookiee figures and combed the racks to get the GB and H&V Wookiees (whichever they make - don't look for them, so I don't know)

The other wanted Clones and got Cody and a Utopau Clone and a regular white one I think (GB or H&V - not sure again - I have those so I tend to overlook them).

There was a large amount of every recent wave there: Tatooine, Endor, Naboo, plus older ones including Hoth and the Snowtroopers. The kids went for the prequel stuff, and the figures I indicated (Wookiees and Clones).

A Luke Endor that I saw at the entrance did sell sometime while I was back with the regular section and the Transformers.

jedi master sal

10-26-2006, 09:19 AM

Given the volume of figure that you buy for yourself, which is extraordinary even buy most collectors standards, it doesn't seem fair to compare your buying habits to the average kid out there. I mean... no offence, but I’d be surprised if the kids in your area have ever even seen a Clone or Stormtrooper. ;)

Thanks, I've never been called extraordinary before! ;)

Trust me, there are still clones around for kids to buy. Especially with the H&V/GB waves around.

I am happy you make more money than Ringo Starr, but most people are not in your enviable position.

Heh, if ONLY that were true. No, I just don't have a life, much outside of collecting...though that's been steadily changing in the past 2 months, in part to Hasbro not manufacturing the specific characters/ships I want to buy, that and I'm just getting to be too damn old to buy toys...heh.

Tycho

10-26-2006, 11:13 AM

Ditto what JediMasterSal said.

In fact, I look forward to more figures that I DO NOT want to buy, than visa versa, as I'm cutting down my toy purchasing.

It's great if new kids become old enough to enter the hobby and want a new Luke Tatooine on the pegs at Wal-Mart for their impulse buy - as long as it moves the cases and the unexpected Biggs Darklighter in Academy Uniform shows up for my personal interest.

JediTricks

10-26-2006, 03:22 PM

If kids are buying this line, they'd have to outnumber collectors a hundred to one just to keep pace with our buying habits, probably 300 to 1 to be "significantly" larger market than us, and it'd have to be consistant. I don't believe it, I have not seen that level of interest at the stores, not even remotely.

In any regard, raising the price when you think kids are still hanging in there is a suicide move.

plasticfetish

10-26-2006, 03:47 PM

In any regard, raising the price when you think kids are still hanging in there is a suicide move.That's something we all probably agree on.

I haven't heard much else about this price increase though. I'm not convinced that it's not just a localized thing. Maybe just the new stores are jacking their prices because they can... because there's that new store "buzz" to bring people in.

I dunno...?

Thanks, I've never been called extraordinary before!Of course you are. Aren't all SSG mods? ;)

dindae

10-26-2006, 03:56 PM

If kids are buying this line, they'd have to outnumber collectors a hundred to one just to keep pace with our buying habits, probably 300 to 1 to be "significantly" larger market than us, and it'd have to be consistant. I don't believe it, I have not seen that level of interest at the stores, not even remotely.

I'm not sure I agree with that. While there are still completist out there they are a dying breed. I don't think that you or Tycho bought an unmatchable amount of figures last year. Now Sal is another matter but he is the extreme. Even if the average collector bought 1 of every figure this year in the basic line that would be 74 figures. I would say that a kid could easily pick up 24 a year on average. That would be just 2 a month not including any extra for birthdays and Xmas. Sure there are kids that only get one or two figures and kids that are spoiled and get everything. So I would say may be 3-5 kids per collector to keep pace and 10 to 1 would be significantly large.

JON9000

10-26-2006, 04:08 PM

Of course, The pric on the Imperial Shuttle represents one of the best values I've seen and a 50% price decrease.

Think that was a bone thrown to collectors, or a shot at getting parents around X-mas time to buy a bigger ticket item?

[/INDENT]That's 50 figures and I'm not even a completist, do you really think kids are keeping pace with that, getting 50 SW figures in 10 months? I doubt they're getting half that, I doubt they'd even want to get half that, my guess is the average is more like 7 figures in that timeframe.
Ok maybe my estimation of the number of figures you picked up this year is a little low but I would say that 2 kids could easily match your 50 figures or one really lucky kid. Even at the 7 figures you suggest (less than a figure a month) that's still only 7 kids. Not quite the 100 to 1 ratio you stated. I just think collectors tend to feel they are the only ones buying and yet lately I see less and less people posting here and when they do I hear more and more people say they are cutting back or quitting.

JediTricks

10-26-2006, 04:55 PM

7 kids to match 1 non-completist opener collector, there are tons of collectors who buy more than I do of this stuff, probably half the folks who post regularly on these forums alone buy more than I do. And that's just to keep pace with collectors, Hasbro is saying kid sales greatly outnumber collector sales, maybe my 100-to-1 number was overestimating but based on what Hasbro said I think we're talking at least 30-to-1.

Tycho

10-26-2006, 05:14 PM

Wow. I think it was Slicker who pointed out how I love LISTS, so I'm going to indulge myself like this is some sort of graffiti art competition and use JT's list to formulate mine.

So they offered 76+ figures and I bought about 69 figures - though not one of everything offered, but rather multiples of some others. A so-so year, but not too shabby as far as in getting me to participate.

El Chuxter

10-26-2006, 05:37 PM

Of course you are. Aren't all SSG mods? ;)

I'm not. :cry:

Slicker

10-26-2006, 05:51 PM

Wow. I think it was Slicker who pointed out how I love LISTS
I think we should make a list of the people that have pointed out your lists. Here they are and the number of times they've pointed it out:

Not even $200 on Hasbro products in '06. If the figures were $4.99, I might have sprung for more, but $7 is enough that I really have to think about it. Of course, I opened up a crapload of figs this year, so that might have staunched the desire to buy.

Not like these?
Feel like you're done with figure purchasing?
Buy only for specific scenes (like Utopau would be obvious from your tastes)?
Think the older figures you opened disappointed so much, it wasn't worth it?
Have trouble finding anything else?
Something other?

El Chuxter

10-26-2006, 07:01 PM

I started to post a list about how many forumites have gone to the drive-in with Slicker's Mom, but I got an error message that stated the post was too large for the server's hard drives.

JON9000

10-26-2006, 07:27 PM

Feel like you're done with figure purchasing?
Buy only for specific scenes (like Utopau would be obvious from your tastes)?
Think the older figures you opened disappointed so much, it wasn't worth it?
Have trouble finding anything else?
Something other?

I still feel like buying and I concentrate on certain areas, but I'm not stuck on them. I actually love the older figures I've opened, which you can read about in the discontinued lines section!

Gen Veers- I never saw Veers at retail, I woulda gotten him, he's awesome :love:
Maj Derlin- Not a $7 figure
Gonk- I already have a GONK and a Treadwell droid
Sora Bulq- didn't like
Sun Fac- On the fence on this guy
Scorch- Never saw him at retail
Holographic Ki-Adi Mundi- I hate holographic figures- not worth $7
Firespeeder Pilot- Needs a firespeeder!
Lushros Dofine- I was on the fence and decided no
Momaw Nadon- SAGA version works for me!
Chief Chirpa- not a $7 figure
Moff Jerjerrod- very disappointed in this figure- likeness and stance suck.
Endor Luke- waiting for VOTC
Gragra- pass
Dud Bolt / Mars Guo 2-pack- need pods!
Gungan Rep Teers- pass
Naboo Flight Tech- pass
Greatest Battles 501st Clone- I have three 501st in the Battlepack, and they have clean feet! there was no mud in the Jedi Temple.

Essentially, since so many figures are remakes of figures I already have, they need to be a serious improvement for me to drop the cash. If you look at my buy list, these were figures I did not have from ROTS that I liked (I never bought anything from the ROTS line), marked improvements (articulation trumps!) on figures I already had, like the Sandtrooper, R5, and the VTSCs, and new character figs like Hem.

Notice, however, that a number of figures I simply didn't feel like dropping $7 on.

My mindset at the current prices is: New Cantina characters, New Jabba's Palace characters, and articulated OT troops and core characters are where it is at for me. Plus the occasional supercool fig that I cannot resist.

dindae

10-26-2006, 07:40 PM

7 kids to match 1 non-completist opener collector, there are tons of collectors who buy more than I do of this stuff, probably half the folks who post regularly on these forums alone buy more than I do. And that's just to keep pace with collectors, Hasbro is saying kid sales greatly outnumber collector sales, maybe my 100-to-1 number was overestimating but based on what Hasbro said I think we're talking at least 30-to-1.

I still think that's a little high but without real numbers on either side I can't really see either of us making headway. I must say when I was a kid I had all the basic figures especially when I started getting an allowance. So 7 figures a year would have been pretty slim. I still remember my birthday in 81 getting several figures and even duplicates for 2 of them.

Wow. I think it was Slicker who pointed out how I love LISTS, so I'm going to indulge myself like this is some sort of graffiti art competition and use JT's list to formulate mine.

Glad I could give you an excuse for another list.:pleased:

Slicker

10-26-2006, 07:47 PM

Very funny Slicker (no seriously)!

I had to do it. Some things are just to easy to not pass up (insert Slicker's mom joke here).

Just glad you have a sense of humor.

Here's a list of people that have a sense of humor...;)

JediTricks

10-26-2006, 09:41 PM

I still think that's a little high but without real numbers on either side I can't really see either of us making headway. I must say when I was a kid I had all the basic figures especially when I started getting an allowance. So 7 figures a year would have been pretty slim. I still remember my birthday in 81 getting several figures and even duplicates for 2 of them.When you were a completist kid in '81, what were your alternative toy lines to gear up on? There wasn't much. Today there are tons of toy lines vying for attention that kids are way more into than Star Wars, plus they're cheaper - a TMNT figure has more accessories and is twice the size for a buck less, and they're not even a heavy-hitter right now. Most of the kids I see at the story are looking for that 1 guy they want, often a Vader, nearly always a main character... 1 figure. They seem to want "a few" figures.

BTW, I misspoke, I actually have 2x Sandtroopers. :p

dindae

10-27-2006, 09:12 AM

When you were a completist kid in '81, what were your alternative toy lines to gear up on? There wasn't much. Today there are tons of toy lines vying for attention that kids are way more into than Star Wars, plus they're cheaper - a TMNT figure has more accessories and is twice the size for a buck less, and they're not even a heavy-hitter right now. Most of the kids I see at the story are looking for that 1 guy they want, often a Vader, nearly always a main character... 1 figure. They seem to want "a few" figures.

But even later when I had switched to GI Joe I still got more figures than 7 and that was with Go-Bots, Transformer, TMNT, He-Man, MASK, Thundercats, etc. I just think that for kids that have made Star Wars their toy of choice surpassing 7 figures would not be difficult. I didn't care if one toy was cheaper because it wasn't as cool as the toy I wanted.

As far as wanting 1 figure I don't know how many times I drug my mom to a toy store so I could look for Storm Shadow before I got him. Sometimes that is what you want and nothing else will do. But if my mom gave me the go ahead to pick one toy as I see so often in the aisle then you bet I was going to pick up a figure I didn't have unless I could squeeze a vehicle out of it.

JediTricks

10-27-2006, 05:06 PM

But even later when I had switched to GI Joe I still got more figures than 7 and that was with Go-Bots, Transformer, TMNT, He-Man, MASK, Thundercats, etc. I just think that for kids that have made Star Wars their toy of choice surpassing 7 figures would not be difficult. I didn't care if one toy was cheaper because it wasn't as cool as the toy I wanted. And you really think a significant percentage of kids buying this line are making SW their #1 choice? I don't.

Luuuuuuke

10-27-2006, 07:54 PM

How would Hasbro even know how much kids are buying? I don't remember the last time I saw a kid walk into a toy store, pull out their wallet or a money clip with a wad of cash and said, "I want to buy this Commemorative Tin."

Let's say the ratio of kids collecting Star Wars to adults was 4 to 1. Does anyone honestly think the average Star Wars collector who is an adult would be incapable if not likely to collect 4 times as many Star Wars products as a kid?

Even if a kid wanted to get his hands on a commemorative tin, fat chance. It's not going to happen, at least soon. Same with battlepacks. Plus, they're cost prohibitive for many of them. Children don't buy repacks just because the card is different. In some ways, kids are pickier than adults. Adults get fooled by SW gimmicks easier than kids do. They just want the damned toys.

Hasbro needs to do some better market research.

Kidhuman

10-27-2006, 09:24 PM

Hasbro was smart to put the tins and most of the "kid friendly" battlepacks out now for Christmas. They are banking on parents buying them for thier kids as well as collectors rounding them up.

JON9000

10-27-2006, 09:35 PM

Let's say the ratio of kids collecting Star Wars to adults was 4 to 1. Does anyone honestly think the average Star Wars collector who is an adult would be incapable if not likely to collect 4 times as many Star Wars products as a kid?

Even if a kid wanted to get his hands on a commemorative tin, fat chance. It's not going to happen, at least soon. Same with battlepacks. Plus, they're cost prohibitive for many of them. Children don't buy repacks just because the card is different. In some ways, kids are pickier than adults. Adults get fooled by SW gimmicks easier than kids do. They just want the damned toys.

Hasbro needs to do some better market research.

Hear you nothing that I say?

Say there are 1,000 Jedi Master Sals out there who can afford and spend above $10,000 per year on new HASBRO SW products. That's $10 million in "hardcore" collector money. Then say there are 100,000 JON9000's out there, adults who spend $500 annually. That's $50 million in casual collector money.

Now, lets say there are 20 million kids who like Star Wars, whose parents buy them 3 figures throughout the year, and spend 40 bucks more at X-mas for vehicles. Or say instead 10 million kids whose parents buy 6 figures through out the year and spend $80 at Christmas. That's half a billion bucks.

Cut the number of kids in half to 5 million- they still dwarf collectors.

About repacks- yes, kids want them. Why? Because a new wave of kids started getting figures with TPM, another wave with AOTC, and yet another with ROTS. That's a freaking 6 year timespan! It's been 11 years since the modern line started. Imagine for a moment what things would be for the kids like had there been no repacks.

Finally, and this is for everybody, do you really think Hasbro and every single Retailer is dumb enough to not have a very good idea how many kids versus adults are buying their toys?

Next time you pay $7.50 for an action figure, ask yourself how dumb Hasbro is.

jedi master sal

10-27-2006, 10:30 PM

Originally Posted by JON9000
Say there are 1,000 Jedi Master Sals out there...

Thank the maker, there is only ONE of me....

I don't even want a clone of myself...heh.

Luuuuuuke

10-27-2006, 11:00 PM

Hear you nothing that I say?

... saith Moses. :D

But all the numbers you toss out are guesses. I doubt there is a ratio of 20 million kids collecting Star Wars to 110,000 adult collectors.

And I don't think Hasbro is "dumb" for a second, but come to think of it, millions of orphan Niemodian soldiers don't lie either. And there's Dagobah X-wings and new Tie Fighters and Endor AT-ATs piling up, and who knows what the hell happened to all those Millenium Falcons.So Hasbro isn't infallible because clearly they could be making even more money off of all of us.

Ultimately, it's probably hard to tell either way.

Tycho

10-28-2006, 12:59 AM

Originally Posted by JON9000
Say there are 1,000 Jedi Master Sals out there...

Thank the maker, there is only ONE of me....

I don't even want a clone of myself...heh.

Yeah, you beat the hell out of me for army building. So if that makes you a General or something, can I still be a Republic Clone Commander? I'll keep the rest of these grunts in line. ;)

Luuuuuuke

10-28-2006, 01:49 AM

Funny thing about collecting Star Wars as opposed to collecting Lord of the Rings(Toybiz) is that it's so much easier to lose perspective of how much you're spending on Star Wars than LOTR. For instance, I would never in 100 years dream of truly army building any of the LOTR figures.

Maybe it's because LOTR figures are larger and take up more space, but I always was hyper conscious of how much I was spending with LOTR, especially if I bought multiples. But because SW figures are so small, and they take less space, it seems like you're not spending as much. The truth is, they always costed about the same.

When I look at my army of clones, which is about 120, I just can't imagine doing that with even the best LOTR army building figures. No way.

So as the price of SW figures goes up, I'm going to have to really think long and hard about my spending habits.

dindae

10-28-2006, 12:59 PM

And you really think a significant percentage of kids buying this line are making SW their #1 choice? I don't.

Of the very small sample of boys that age that I know yes. I just find it funny that even though the only group that has done any real research on the fact is Hasbro and everyone seems to think it is unfathomable.

Luuuuuuke

10-28-2006, 02:14 PM

Of the very small sample of boys that age that I know yes. I just find it funny that even though the only group that has done any real research on the fact is Hasbro and everyone seems to think it is unfathomable.

I go to TRU and other places that sell SW with some regularity, and to be honest, I don't often see children with their parents buying SW. I'm sure they do, but what I see is young adults and adults. Almost always.

But maybe you're right. I'm just not putting too much faith on Hasbro's research, given how much stuff they put out that just sits on the pegs.

JediTricks

10-28-2006, 11:35 PM

Of the very small sample of boys that age that I know yes. I just find it funny that even though the only group that has done any real research on the fact is Hasbro and everyone seems to think it is unfathomable.It flies directly in the face of nearly all anecdotal evidence we've seen.

Darth Cruel

10-29-2006, 01:36 AM

I have no problem believing that the number of figures bought for children could outnumber the number of figures bought for collectors 100 to 1. In fact...I would not suffer any surprise to learn that it was 1,000 to 1 (but no, I don't think it truly is that high). I think there are some people allowing for a lot more collectors than there actually are. I used to do that. I used to assume millions of collectors. But now I look on ebay and find lots of figures that supposedly had a 50,000 unit run (if you believe the packaging) being sold. If there were that many collectors...I would assume a figure like the Utapau shadow trooper to be a lot more difficult to find with only 50,000 made. That one was a short run AND a troop-builder and you can still readily find them on eBay. And thinking of the ratio of people that I see post on numerous sights about how many don't want it, how many do and how many of them the ones who do want it want...My estimate right now is at about 100,000 collectors worldwide...give or take. And I have no problem imagining that the number of children who get these because they like them, because their parent may be trying to shove the interest on them, because they get replacements for lost or broken figures, or other reasons I am not including, are huge by comparison. Hell, half of the collectors on these collecting websites are talking about only buying one or two figures from a 7 figure wave because they do not want to buy re-packs. It is easy for me to imaging that the re-packs of figures we bought 4 years ago are still selling because they are going to children that are just becoming old enough to develope an interest. I think common sense can step in and dictate that if collectors really were carying the line...hasbro would respond to them instead of the children who seem to be the ones actually doing the carrying right now.

And I don't know about other areas...but the figure are moving where I am.

Luuuuuuke

10-29-2006, 03:12 AM

Man, I better get my eyes checked then, because there's a lot of invisible children and parents buying Star Wars here in L.A.

I just do not think children collecting accounts for the majority of Star Wars sales. Yeah, Hasbro can say what they want--but I think they're just pulling words out of their arse to keep demanding adult collectors off their back.

If they say "Children account for far more of the sales than adults do," it's easier to tell adults to just shut the #%@ up with their whining. Anything to keep adult "collectors" from feeling self-important and like they can give Hasbro orders.

Which would be an understandable instinct on their part, to be honest; I mean, wouldn't you get sick and tired of hearing "Sorry, Hasbroke, you're losing me as a customer" for the millionth time?

I don't even buy that Hasbro does intensive market research on this. Come on, it's Star Wars. You just put it out and listen for the zombie like moan as collectors line up to gobble the product up.

Adults can go to stores just about any time; kids can't. They have to pick their spots, usually on the weekend. When's the last time you saw a kid and his parents walk out with a stack of Star Wars as tall as Shaquille O'Neal? Well, given the restrictions of when they can shop for SW, that's about what it would take for kids to do to catch to what adults buy.

I like Hasbro and have no complaints with the way they run the line for the most part, but in this case, I really do think they'll say anything to get us to just shut the hell up.

Darth Cruel

10-29-2006, 10:58 AM

Man, I better get my eyes checked then, because there's a lot of invisible children and parents buying Star Wars here in L.A.

I just do not think children collecting accounts for the majority of Star Wars sales. Yeah, Hasbro can say what they want--but I think they're just pulling words out of their arse to keep demanding adult collectors off their back.

If they say "Children account for far more of the sales than adults do," it's easier to tell adults to just shut the #%@ up with their whining. Anything to keep adult "collectors" from feeling self-important and like they can give Hasbro orders.

Which would be an understandable instinct on their part, to be honest; I mean, wouldn't you get sick and tired of hearing "Sorry, Hasbroke, you're losing me as a customer" for the millionth time?

I don't even buy that Hasbro does intensive market research on this. Come on, it's Star Wars. You just put it out and listen for the zombie like moan as collectors line up to gobble the product up.

Adults can go to stores just about any time; kids can't. They have to pick their spots, usually on the weekend. When's the last time you saw a kid and his parents walk out with a stack of Star Wars as tall as Shaquille O'Neal? Well, given the restrictions of when they can shop for SW, that's about what it would take for kids to do to catch to what adults buy.

I like Hasbro and have no complaints with the way they run the line for the most part, but in this case, I really do think they'll say anything to get us to just shut the hell up.

Actually...simple common business sense would dictate that Hasbro cater to the bigger money base. If collectors were the primary source of money...it would be stupid for Hasbro to cater to the kids then. And I am sure that the people working at Hasbro did not get themselves and Hasbro as far as they have by making stupid financial decisions.

The bottom line is they will go where the money is. So, from another point of view...the collectors who are not buying the re-packs are also hurting the line (LOL...I probably should not have added that comment as I am not one to stir trouble or anger other forumites, but it IS a valid POV).

pbarnard

10-29-2006, 11:27 AM

And I've said this twice now in this post. Hasbro is a publicly traded company making statements that Kids are the primary base driving their profits. If you have evidence, and think this is contrary, than Hasbro is misleading it's investors which is against the law. Complain with your evidence to the Security and Exchange Commission.

Since you lack the evidence, there is enough reason/doubt for Hasbro to be sincere since the cost or even allegation of an investigation could hurt their bottom line.

Anecdotal evidence is insufficient. You have to produce documents or independent market research that proves contrary. Until you can meet that burden of proof your words are just rants.

Another way to get some access is to become a shareholder yourself (NYSE: HAS). While not a great performing company, Hasbro's stock is relatively affordable (~25 bucks and is paying about 50 cent dividend).

Tycho

10-29-2006, 11:36 AM

Yes, actually Hasbro is behaving quite well in the market and is a recommendable income stock. Spider-Man and Transformers licenses, coupled with the new Monopoly and the staple Star Wars should keep it strong perhaps until nearly the 4th Quarter 2007 or 1st Quarter 2008 - at which point Transformers will probably still be a strong rolling property, and Star Wars will have one TV show on the air (CGI Clone Wars) and another up-and-coming (live action Imperial era).

dindae

10-29-2006, 12:14 PM

Adults can go to stores just about any time; kids can't. They have to pick their spots, usually on the weekend. When's the last time you saw a kid and his parents walk out with a stack of Star Wars as tall as Shaquille O'Neal? Well, given the restrictions of when they can shop for SW, that's about what it would take for kids to do to catch to what adults buy.

Collectors and kids definately shop at different times. Moms are not going to take there kids to store at 8am when the doors open or midnight or during lunch breaks. They do it on the way home from school or on the weekends after soccer practice. I don't know if that is lending to the fact that you never see children I tend to shop later in the evening so maybe that is why I see more kids. I will definately give you that LA has a higher percentage of collectors. It has always been the strongest just found thread on the forums. I think the only forumite that is active that passes through my area is stad. While I have never seen kids walk out with arms full of figures, I would say that kids find something that they want almost everytime they go unlike collectors who may hit store 20-30 times before finding the elusive wave/figure. I don't believe that kids buy as much as adults on a 1 to 1 basis but 5 average kids to 1 average collector is easy for me to see.

Luuuuuuke

10-30-2006, 01:57 AM

If you have evidence, and think this is contrary, than Hasbro is misleading it's investors which is against the law. Complain with your evidence to the Security and Exchange Commission.

Since you lack the evidence, there is enough reason/doubt for Hasbro to be sincere since the cost or even allegation of an investigation could hurt their bottom line.

Yeah, I'm sure the feds don't have better things to do. :D

I don't think Hasbro is misleading people. I just don't think when it comes to Star Wars there's much of an incentive for them to really know whose buying what. It's Star Wars. It'll sell more than well enough.

One thing's for sure, if the prices keep going up, it'll definitely become more of an adult collector line.

jedi master sal

10-30-2006, 08:16 AM

One thing's for sure, if the prices keep going up, it'll definitely become more of an adult collector line.

But even then, there's only so much cost we are willing to bare the brunt of. Many of us are becoming disgusted with the aparrent greed of the corporate alliance (Wal*Mart, Target and yes Hasbro).

Raising prices is only going to helo their profits in the short term. Keep making kids and colletors alike paying through the nose and soon they'll find we are choosing someone else's "Kleenex," if you take my meaning.