Djokovic's mental strength is actually a WEAPON for him, he not only doesn't choke on important points but players much better during them. Nadal on the other hand is strong in the way that he never gives less than 100%. He tends not to get the lapses in concentration that the other 3 get sometimes. Fed and Murray are less commendable, they can hold it together but there is nothing special about their mental strength.

Rafael Nadal. The Rome finals of 2005 and 2006 are the best example. In the 2005 Rome final, Nadal trailed 0-3 (2 breaks) in the fifth set against Coria, and Coria had a game point on his serve for a 4-0 lead. Nadal came back to win in the fifth set tiebreak, although it took 4 championship points for Nadal before it ended. In the 2006 Rome final, Nadal trailed 1-4 (1 break) in the fifth set against Federer, saved 2 championship points when serving at 5-6 in the fifth set, and came back from 3-5 down in the fifth set tiebreak to win 4 points in a row and take the title.

Rafael Nadal. The Rome finals of 2005 and 2006 are the best example. In the 2005 Rome final, Nadal trailed 0-3 (2 breaks) in the fifth set against Coria, and Coria had a game point on his serve for a 4-0 lead. Nadal came back to win in the fifth set tiebreak, although it took 4 championship points for Nadal before it ended. In the 2006 Rome final, Nadal trailed 1-4 (1 break) in the fifth set against Federer, saved 2 championship points when serving at 5-6 in the fifth set, and came back from 3-5 down in the fifth set tiebreak to win 4 points in a row and take the title.

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How is this a better example than all of Djokers match points down coming back to win? I'm not saying one guy is tougher than the other, but I fail to see how your example proves your arguement.

has to be either Federer or Nadal... The former brings it on key points nearly every time, the latter doesn't give up ever and fights until the end.

Novak has improved a lot, but has had a history of mental weakness with his retirements and other antics.

Murray still has a long way to go in this capacity and shouldn't even be in this discussion regardless of how highly he is ranked at the moment. There are many many players who are stronger than he is mentally, Ferrer, DelPotro, etc...

If we include past players Sampras would rank very highly. The guy was cool. Tres cool.

Rafael Nadal. The Rome finals of 2005 and 2006 are the best example. In the 2005 Rome final, Nadal trailed 0-3 (2 breaks) in the fifth set against Coria, and Coria had a game point on his serve for a 4-0 lead. Nadal came back to win in the fifth set tiebreak, although it took 4 championship points for Nadal before it ended. In the 2006 Rome final, Nadal trailed 1-4 (1 break) in the fifth set against Federer, saved 2 championship points when serving at 5-6 in the fifth set, and came back from 3-5 down in the fifth set tiebreak to win 4 points in a row and take the title.

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Yeah.

Because turning the match on the surface, that suits your game the most, and, in the case against Federer, having a favourable match-up against your opponent, shows exactly that.

has to be either Federer or Nadal... The former brings it on key points nearly every time, the latter doesn't give up ever and fights until the end.

Novak has improved a lot, but has had a history of mental weakness with his retirements and other antics.

Murray still has a long way to go in this capacity and shouldn't even be in this discussion regardless of how highly he is ranked at the moment. There are many many players who are stronger than he is mentally, Ferrer, DelPotro, etc...

If we include past players Sampras would rank very highly. The guy was cool. Tres cool.

in some ways he can afford to be as he can (usually) lean on his serve and big ground strokes to bail him out on key points: he has a simpler game.

has Delpo ever had something approximating Murray's 'feather' incident at the Australian Open? Also, i think Delpo's calm nonchalant demeanor help him stay focused. He is rarely flustered unless he makes a very silly mistake, then he moves on quickly. Murray seems to have more of a negative internal (often external) dialogue with himself. He has improved a lot and he is young enough to change. I just don't think he's at the level of some of the other players on tour.

Perhaps Delpo wasn't the best example, but i still think he is a level of toughness above Murray at the moment, though still short of others like Ferrer, etc...

Also, i think Delpo's calm nonchalant demeanor help him stay focused. He is rarely flustered unless he makes a very silly mistake, then he moves on quickly. Murray seems to have more of a negative internal (often external) dialogue with himself. He has improved a lot and he is young enough to change. I just don't think he's at the level of some of the other players on tour.

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The only players he's really not quite at the same mental level as are Djokovic, Federer and Nadal. Results speak for themselves. Murray has many more bigger titles than Delpo or any other player ranked below him (Nadal excepted of course). So if he IS mentally weaker than them in any way, it has certainly not held him back in achieving far more superior results!

Fed seems the toughest by a good margin.
I used slams and not failing to get far in them as one criteria.

Fed made 18/19 finals in slams and didn't let down mentally to make them for so long.

Nadal would not keep his intensity, in the later parts of the year he would not stay tough.
Djokovic is about the same as Nadal, has trouble keeping himself at top level through the whole year, even in 2011.

I used to think Nadal topped the charts on metal toughness, but the tactical stuff (nice way of saying BS gamesmanship) he's been pulling over the last couple of years tells me that he's lost that mental edge.

How is this a better example than all of Djokers match points down coming back to win? I'm not saying one guy is tougher than the other, but I fail to see how your example proves your arguement.

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Because 2011-2013 Djokovic is a lot more experienced than 2005-2006 Nadal. Before 2011, Djokovic was considered to be very suspect in the mental toughness stakes, very inconsistent due to physical ailments.

Because turning the match on the surface, that suits your game the most, and, in the case against Federer, having a favourable match-up against your opponent, shows exactly that.

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Do you know how boring your snide comments have gotten? :roll:

Have you heard of hindsight? You're using it. Don't do it. Nadal was an 18 year old who had never won a major when he beat Coria in the 2005 Rome final. At the time of the 2006 Rome final, Federer had 7 majors to Nadal's 1, and it was only their third match on a clay-court.

I think people underestimate federer's mental toughness because he does not show as much emotion on court as the other players. Certainly his consistency in the majors is reflective of his consistent attitude and mental toughness. The guy does not get as discouraged after his losses. He is the best front runner of the top 4, while Nadal is certainly the best at coming from behind in a match. Nadal is very tenacious and never gives up, however he struggles with nerves more than federer and djokovic and does not start as well in matches. Federer is probably the best at maintaining a lead and closing out matches so in my mind he is the most mental tough, which is reflected by his results. my order is
1. Federer
2. Nadal
3. Djokovic
4. Murray

Have you heard of hindsight? You're using it. Don't do it. Nadal was an 18 year old who had never won a major when he beat Coria in the 2005 Rome final. At the time of the 2006 Rome final, Federer had 7 majors to Nadal's 1, and it was only their third match on a clay-court.

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In 2003 Nadal beat the reigning champion of RG Alert Costa at the tournament in Monte Carlo and 1998 RG champion Carlos Moya in Hamburg. By the matches you mention, he was an established claycourt player (reflected by his claycourt record, ranking and place in the Spanish Davis Cup team).

So, I am not using a hindsight, and you, trying to show how much of a non-factor Nadal was on clay, just to boost his image as a mental giant in those particular instances, is laughable.

I particularly enjoyed your "At the time of the 2006 Rome final, Federer had 7 majors to Nadal's 1" and " it was only their third match on a clay-court", having in mind, that none of those 7 Majors was on clay, Federer had won none of their matches on clay and Nadal was firmly established clay-court force by then. Forget the fact, that the unfavourable match-up was already evident (leading the H2H) .

All in all, the way you use your "knowledge", to support your bias, is comical.

I am sure, that they seem boring/snide to you, because you are one unbiased and fair poster.

:roll:

In 2003 Nadal beat the reigning champion of RG Alert Costa at the tournament in Monte Carlo and 1998 RG champion Carlos Moya in Hamburg. By the matches you mention, he was an established claycourt player (reflected by his claycourt record, ranking and place in the Spanish Davis Cup team).

So, I am not using a hindsight, and you, trying to show how much of a non-factor Nadal was on clay, just to boost his image as a mental giant in those particular instances, is laughable.

I particularly enjoyed your "At the time of the 2006 Rome final, Federer had 7 majors to Nadal's 1" and " it was only their third match on a clay-court", having in mind, that none of those 7 Majors was on clay, Federer had won none of their matches on clay and Nadal was firmly established clay-court force by then. Forget the fact, that the unfavourable match-up was already evident (leading the H2H) .

All in all, the way you use your "knowledge", to support your bias, is comical.

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And you're not biased? You're one of the most biased, Nadal hating posters on this forum. Self-awareness is certainly not one of your attributes.

As much as i hate to admit it, Djokovic is by and far the clutch player by miles as he has shown since USO 2010. The number of matches he has won after being match point down or within a point or two of losing are too many to count.

Nadal has not gotten himself into such situations often.

Federer has some 9 losses including 4 at majors losing matches after holding match points.

Unfortunately, (probably for his extreme fans) he will always be a subject of criticism and comments, because he is a top player, and, as such, I get to see him and his impact on the sport a lot. I choose the form, but it is by no means "hating". Mostly it is a reflection of the things, that he or his extreme fanbase does.

I will be the first to praise him, if he changes his ways.

Maybe I am vocal, because I see, that he has the potential to change. Come to think of it, I hope, that he will, which shows that I believe in him (once he gets rid of Tio and his evil influence).

:razz:

Feel free to not respond to this, as I cannot see your poasts and have no intention to involve myself in long and tedious exchanges of words with you.

EDIT:The next two posters (as well as Crisstti and the majority of the Vamos Brigade) are a fine company for Clarky21 there, so .......