Dimdows OEM Licence Piracy

Note that you CANNOT buy an OEM copy of Windows for installation on a PC
yourself <http://blogs.zdnet.com/Bott/?p=1514&page=2&tag=col1;post-1514>.
Such a copy MUST be preinstalled for the customer by a â€œSystem Builderâ€
using the OEM Preinstallation Kit â€œand then resold to a non-related third
partyâ€.

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Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
> Note that you CANNOT buy an OEM copy of Windows for installation on a PC
> yourself <http://blogs.zdnet.com/Bott/?p=1514&page=2&tag=col1;post-1514>.
> Such a copy MUST be preinstalled for the customer by a â€œSystem Builderâ€
> using the OEM Preinstallation Kit â€œand then resold to a non-related third
> partyâ€.

That's strange, because despite your insistence that "you CANNOT", I've
done it several times, and despite that being previous versions to W7, I
see pricespy listing dozens of companies happily offering various
versions of W7 for sale with OEM license.
IIRC such claims - though usually stating that you MAY not - have been
made many times in the past in this forum.

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On Nov 6, 9:20 am, Me <> wrote:
> Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
> > Note that you CANNOT buy an OEM copy of Windows for installation on a PC
> > yourself <http://blogs.zdnet.com/Bott/?p=1514&page=2&tag=col1;post-1514>.
> > Such a copy MUST be preinstalled for the customer by a “System Builder”
> > using the OEM Preinstallation Kit “and then resold to a non-related third
> > party”.
>
> That's strange, because despite your insistence that "you CANNOT", I've
> done it several times, and despite that being previous versions to W7, I
> see pricespy listing dozens of companies happily offering various
> versions of W7 for sale with OEM license.
> IIRC such claims - though usually stating that you MAY not - have been
> made many times in the past in this forum.

There are two types of OEM as far as I can see. There is the one for
'small time' assemblers which you can buy with a hardware purchase
(seems to be interpreted very liberally) which requires product key
and activation.

The other type is for big time assemblers like HP and Dell. they seem
to exist of a kit consisting of a master copy and a heap of licence
stickers. There is some interaction with the BIOS which avoids the
need to authenticate. Presumably Windows is imaged on to the HD then
customised by scanning the licence sticker attached to the computer
via a USB scanner. This would seem to 'lock in' the OS to that
machine. A rescue CD (or partition on HD) enables the OS to be
restored as original.

These OEM copies would be cheaper than 'small time' OEM's and the OEM
then gets a substantial 'kick back' pretty well at Microsoft's sole
discretion making the effective price quite low (perhaps a few tens of
dollars). These ransactions are channeled through the likes of Ireland
so the likes of IRD, ATO, IRS, HMRC etc are bilked. These 'kick backs'
is how Microsoft maintain an iron grip over OEM's since the OEM has no
legal comeback if Microsoft with holds payment. An OEM must AFAIK
agree to buy a Windows licence for every computer it ships including
those loaded with Linux etc, and it seems to pay OEM's to over-buy
licences or buy them well in advance of need. Hence there were
apparently far more Vista licences sold initially than computers
actually shipped with Vista, which Microsoft gloatingly used to show
the success of Vista uptake.

On Fri, 06 Nov 2009 09:20:09 +1300, Me wrote:
> Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
>> Note that you CANNOT buy an OEM copy of Windows for installation on a
>> PC yourself
>> <http://blogs.zdnet.com/Bott/?p=1514&page=2&tag=col1;post-1514>. Such a
>> copy MUST be preinstalled for the customer by a â€œSystem Builderâ€ using
>> the OEM Preinstallation Kit â€œand then resold to a non-related third
>> partyâ€.
>
> That's strange, because despite your insistence that "you CANNOT", I've
> done it several times, and despite that being previous versions to W7, I
> see pricespy listing dozens of companies happily offering various
> versions of W7 for sale with OEM license. IIRC such claims - though
> usually stating that you MAY not - have been made many times in the past
> in this forum.

Ascent used to offer OEM Windows as part of a hardware purchase. The
license for the version that came with my computer states that it must be
used with the machine with which it is purchased. It doesn't say anything
about the machine already being assembled. From the XP OEM EULA.

In message <hcvc43$4m4$>, Me wrote:
> Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
>
>> Note that you CANNOT buy an OEM copy of Windows for installation on a PC
>> yourself <http://blogs.zdnet.com/Bott/?p=1514&page=2&tag=col1;post-1514>.
>> Such a copy MUST be preinstalled for the customer by a â€œSystem Builderâ€
>> using the OEM Preinstallation Kit â€œand then resold to a non-related third
>> partyâ€.
>
> That's strange, because despite your insistence that "you CANNOT", I've
> done it several times ...

You donâ€™t feel nervous about admitting to rampant copyright infringement in
a public forum?
> ... I see pricespy listing dozens of companies happily offering various
> versions of W7 for sale with OEM license.

Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
> In message <hcvc43$4m4$>, Me wrote:
>
>> Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
>>
>>> Note that you CANNOT buy an OEM copy of Windows for installation on a PC
>>> yourself <http://blogs.zdnet.com/Bott/?p=1514&page=2&tag=col1;post-1514>.
>>> Such a copy MUST be preinstalled for the customer by a â€œSystem Builderâ€
>>> using the OEM Preinstallation Kit â€œand then resold to a non-related third
>>> partyâ€.
>> That's strange, because despite your insistence that "you CANNOT", I've
>> done it several times ...
>
> You donâ€™t feel nervous about admitting to rampant copyright infringement in
> a public forum?
>
>> ... I see pricespy listing dozens of companies happily offering various
>> versions of W7 for sale with OEM license.
>
> I didnâ€™t say they were the ones violating the EULA.

In message <hd0g9q$81v$-september.org>, victor wrote:
> Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
>
>> In message <hcvc43$4m4$>, Me wrote:
>>
>>> Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
>>>
>>>> Note that you CANNOT buy an OEM copy of Windows for installation on a
>>>> PC yourself
>>>> <http://blogs.zdnet.com/Bott/?p=1514&page=2&tag=col1;post-1514>. Such a
>>>> copy MUST be preinstalled for the customer by a â€œSystem Builderâ€ using
>>>> the OEM Preinstallation Kit â€œand then resold to a non-related third
>>>> partyâ€.
>>> That's strange, because despite your insistence that "you CANNOT", I've
>>> done it several times ...
>>
>> You donâ€™t feel nervous about admitting to rampant copyright infringement
>> in a public forum?
>>
>>> ... I see pricespy listing dozens of companies happily offering various
>>> versions of W7 for sale with OEM license.
>>
>> I didnâ€™t say they were the ones violating the EULA.
>
> So who is ?

Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
> In message <hd0g9q$81v$-september.org>, victor wrote:
>
>> Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
>>
>>> In message <hcvc43$4m4$>, Me wrote:
>>>
>>>> Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Note that you CANNOT buy an OEM copy of Windows for installation on a
>>>>> PC yourself
>>>>> <http://blogs.zdnet.com/Bott/?p=1514&page=2&tag=col1;post-1514>. Such a
>>>>> copy MUST be preinstalled for the customer by a â€œSystem Builderâ€ using
>>>>> the OEM Preinstallation Kit â€œand then resold to a non-related third
>>>>> partyâ€.
>>>> That's strange, because despite your insistence that "you CANNOT", I've
>>>> done it several times ...
>>> You donâ€™t feel nervous about admitting to rampant copyright infringement
>>> in a public forum?
>>>
>>>> ... I see pricespy listing dozens of companies happily offering various
>>>> versions of W7 for sale with OEM license.
>>> I didnâ€™t say they were the ones violating the EULA.
>> So who is ?
>
> Hint: what does the "EU" part stand for?

victor wrote:
> Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
>> In message <hd0g9q$81v$-september.org>, victor wrote:
>>
>>> Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
>>>
>>>> In message <hcvc43$4m4$>, Me wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Note that you CANNOT buy an OEM copy of Windows for installation on a
>>>>>> PC yourself
>>>>>> <http://blogs.zdnet.com/Bott/?p=1514&page=2&tag=col1;post-1514>.
>>>>>> Such a
>>>>>> copy MUST be preinstalled for the customer by a â€œSystem Builderâ€
>>>>>> using
>>>>>> the OEM Preinstallation Kit â€œand then resold to a non-related third
>>>>>> partyâ€.
>>>>> That's strange, because despite your insistence that "you CANNOT",
>>>>> I've
>>>>> done it several times ...
>>>> You donâ€™t feel nervous about admitting to rampant copyright
>>>> infringement
>>>> in a public forum?
>>>>
>>>>> ... I see pricespy listing dozens of companies happily offering
>>>>> various
>>>>> versions of W7 for sale with OEM license.
>>>> I didnâ€™t say they were the ones violating the EULA.
>>> So who is ?
>>
>> Hint: what does the "EU" part stand for?
>
> It doesn't have anything about the OPK in the EULA
>
Don't worry. Larry is obsessing about people not being able to meet
EULA terms on something that they can't easily buy anyway.

In message <hd0knp$13e$-september.org>, victor wrote:
> Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
>
>> Note that you CANNOT buy an OEM copy of Windows for installation on a
>> PC yourself
>> <http://blogs.zdnet.com/Bott/?p=1514&page=2&tag=col1;post-1514>. Such
>> a copy MUST be preinstalled for the customer by a â€œSystem Builderâ€
>> using the OEM Preinstallation Kit â€œand then resold to a non-related
>> third partyâ€.
>
> It doesn't have anything about the OPK in the EULA

Donâ€™t believe me? Read what Microsoft has to say about it
<http://oem.microsoft.com/script/contentPage.aspx?pageid=558124>.

Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
> In message <hd0knp$13e$-september.org>, victor wrote:
>
>> Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
>>
>>> Note that you CANNOT buy an OEM copy of Windows for installation on a
>>> PC yourself
>>> <http://blogs.zdnet.com/Bott/?p=1514&page=2&tag=col1;post-1514>. Such
>>> a copy MUST be preinstalled for the customer by a â€œSystem Builderâ€
>>> using the OEM Preinstallation Kit â€œand then resold to a non-related
>>> third partyâ€.
>> It doesn't have anything about the OPK in the EULA
>
> Donâ€™t believe me? Read what Microsoft has to say about it
> <http://oem.microsoft.com/script/contentPage.aspx?pageid=558124>.

peterwn wrote:
>
> The other type is for big time assemblers like HP and Dell. they seem
> to exist of a kit consisting of a master copy and a heap of licence
> stickers. There is some interaction with the BIOS which avoids the
> need to authenticate. Presumably Windows is imaged on to the HD then
> customised by scanning the licence sticker attached to the computer
> via a USB scanner. This would seem to 'lock in' the OS to that
> machine. A rescue CD (or partition on HD) enables the OS to be
> restored as original.

For the large manufacturers Windows is installed with a generic licence
key that is used on all the PCs with that OS sold by that
manufacturer[1]. These generic keys do not need activation and are in
no way tied to the BIOS [2], although the OS image on the recovery media
may well have a BIOS check built in to it. Sysprep is then run to allow
the user's name, location and so on to be entered and GUIDs to be
regenerated upon the next startup. At no stage is the licence key
attached to the machine actually entered into the OS.

[1] Try checking the licence number against the sticker on a factory
preinstalled machine from on of the large vendors - they will not match.

[2] I have always built standard client images off a generic (ie small
assembler) OEM copy of Windows XP using the generic manufacturer key
from the original (HP, IBM or Dell) install to avoid activation.

Me wrote:
> victor wrote:
>> Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
>>> In message <hd0g9q$81v$-september.org>, victor wrote:
>>>
>>>> Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> In message <hcvc43$4m4$>, Me wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Note that you CANNOT buy an OEM copy of Windows for installation
>>>>>>> on a
>>>>>>> PC yourself
>>>>>>> <http://blogs.zdnet.com/Bott/?p=1514&page=2&tag=col1;post-1514>.
>>>>>>> Such a
>>>>>>> copy MUST be preinstalled for the customer by a â€œSystem Builderâ€
>>>>>>> using
>>>>>>> the OEM Preinstallation Kit â€œand then resold to a non-related third
>>>>>>> partyâ€.
>>>>>> That's strange, because despite your insistence that "you CANNOT",
>>>>>> I've
>>>>>> done it several times ...
>>>>> You donâ€™t feel nervous about admitting to rampant copyright
>>>>> infringement
>>>>> in a public forum?
>>>>>
>>>>>> ... I see pricespy listing dozens of companies happily offering
>>>>>> various
>>>>>> versions of W7 for sale with OEM license.
>>>>> I didnâ€™t say they were the ones violating the EULA.
>>>> So who is ?
>>>
>>> Hint: what does the "EU" part stand for?
>>
>> It doesn't have anything about the OPK in the EULA
> >
> Don't worry. Larry is obsessing about people not being able to meet
> EULA terms on something that they can't easily buy anyway.

Why ?
A system builder can also be an end user.
Building a system can be as simple as adding the software to the
hardware, and that makes you a system builder.
Building a PC from scratch is mobo, ram, processor, disk, psu, case, OS,
and there is no requirement which excludes any level of pre-assembly and
or pre-use of the hardware.

To be ignorant is one thing, but to wilfully remain so when your ignorance
is pointed out to you, well ...

Anyway, the full OEM licence agreement is available here
<http://oem.microsoft.com/script/contentPage.aspx?pageid=552857>. Some
choice bits:

2. Authorized Distribution and Acceptance. To distribute the Software or
Hardware in this Pack, you must be a System Builder and accept this
license. â€œSystem Builderâ€ means an original equipment manufacturer, an
assembler, a refurbisher, or a software pre-installer that sells the
Computer System(s) to a third party. You accept this license when you
open this Pack. If you choose not to accept this license, promptly return
the unopened Pack to your distributor. You may only distribute unopened
Packs within your territory. ... Individual Hardware or Software units
may not be returned after the Pack is opened.
....
5. Distribution.
a. Software Preinstallation.
i. For each unit of Software in the Pack, you must pre-install one copy
of the Software on a Customer System prior to distribution. If the
Software includes more than one language version, you must install
only one language version.
ii. For such pre-installation, you must use the OPK provided in the pack
or otherwise made available by us. You may use the information,
tools and materials contained in the OPK solely to preinstall the
Software in accordance with the OPK. ... You may not distribute the
OPK to the end user.
...
b. End User License Terms. You must distribute the Software pursuant to
the end user license terms (â€œLicense Termsâ€) that accompany it. Under
the License Terms, you are the licensor.

In message <hcu2he$guj$>, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
> Note that you CANNOT buy an OEM copy of Windows for installation on a PC
> yourself <http://blogs.zdnet.com/Bott/?p=1514&page=2&tag=col1;post-1514>.
> Such a copy MUST be preinstalled for the customer by a â€œSystem Builderâ€
> using the OEM Preinstallation Kit â€œand then resold to a non-related third
> partyâ€.

And hereâ€™s another thing: if you buy an upgrade, you CANNOT dual-boot it
with the previous version
<http://blogs.zdnet.com/Bott/?p=1514&page=3&tag=col1;post-1514>. It MUST
REPLACE the previous installation.

Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
> In message <hd2608$gl3$-september.org>, victor wrote:
>
>> Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
>>
>>> In message <hd0knp$13e$-september.org>, victor wrote:
>>>
>>>> Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
>>>>
>>> Donâ€™t believe me? Read what Microsoft has to say about it
>>> <http://oem.microsoft.com/script/contentPage.aspx?pageid=558124>.
>> Read it yourself.
>
> To be ignorant is one thing, but to wilfully remain so when your ignorance
> is pointed out to you, well ...
>
> Anyway, the full OEM licence agreement is available here
> <http://oem.microsoft.com/script/contentPage.aspx?pageid=552857>. Some
> choice bits:
>
> 2. Authorized Distribution and Acceptance. To distribute the Software or
> Hardware in this Pack, you must be a System Builder and accept this
> license. â€œSystem Builderâ€ means an original equipment manufacturer, an
> assembler, a refurbisher, or a software pre-installer that sells the
> Computer System(s) to a third party. You accept this license when you
> open this Pack. If you choose not to accept this license, promptly return
> the unopened Pack to your distributor. You may only distribute unopened
> Packs within your territory. ... Individual Hardware or Software units
> may not be returned after the Pack is opened.
> ...
> 5. Distribution.
> a. Software Preinstallation.
> i. For each unit of Software in the Pack, you must pre-install one copy
> of the Software on a Customer System prior to distribution. If the
> Software includes more than one language version, you must install
> only one language version.
> ii. For such pre-installation, you must use the OPK provided in the pack
> or otherwise made available by us. You may use the information,
> tools and materials contained in the OPK solely to preinstall the
> Software in accordance with the OPK. ... You may not distribute the
> OPK to the end user.
> ...
> b. End User License Terms. You must distribute the Software pursuant to
> the end user license terms (â€œLicense Termsâ€) that accompany it. Under
> the License Terms, you are the licensor.
>

This license lays out the conditions of distribution only.
You don't have to sell the computer to a third party. I often do, but
there is nothing in this to stop me activating and using on OPK
pre-installation for myself.
There is no qualifying criteria that defines a system builder, the OS is
a system component that any self described system builder can buy from
component wholesalers.

On 2009-11-07, Lawrence D'Oliveiro <_zealand> wrote:
> In message <hcu2he$guj$>, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
>
>> Note that you CANNOT buy an OEM copy of Windows for installation on a PC
>> yourself <http://blogs.zdnet.com/Bott/?p=1514&page=2&tag=col1;post-1514>.
>> Such a copy MUST be preinstalled for the customer by a ?System Builder?
>> using the OEM Preinstallation Kit ?and then resold to a non-related third
>> party?.
>
> And here?s another thing: if you buy an upgrade, you CANNOT dual-boot it
> with the previous version
><http://blogs.zdnet.com/Bott/?p=1514&page=3&tag=col1;post-1514>. It MUST
> REPLACE the previous installation.

Yes, Yes, this has been the case since MS has had upgrades. It is an
upgrade, not a split. After all that is why upgrades cost less than the full
edition

On 2009-11-06, Lawrence D'Oliveiro <_zealand> wrote:
> In message <hcvc43$4m4$>, Me wrote:
>
>> Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
>>
>>> Note that you CANNOT buy an OEM copy of Windows for installation on a PC
>>> yourself <http://blogs.zdnet.com/Bott/?p=1514&page=2&tag=col1;post-1514>.
>>> Such a copy MUST be preinstalled for the customer by a ?System Builder?
>>> using the OEM Preinstallation Kit ?and then resold to a non-related third
>>> party?.
>>
>> That's strange, because despite your insistence that "you CANNOT", I've
>> done it several times ...
>
> You don?t feel nervous about admitting to rampant copyright infringement in
> a public forum?

In message <hd2het$i30$-september.org>, victor wrote:
> Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
>>
>> 2. Authorized Distribution and Acceptance. To distribute the Software or
>> Hardware in this Pack, you must be a System Builder and accept this
>> license. â€œSystem Builderâ€ means an original equipment manufacturer, an
>> assembler, a refurbisher, or a software pre-installer that sells the
>> Computer System(s) to a third party. You accept this license when you
>> open this Pack. If you choose not to accept this license, promptly
>> return the unopened Pack to your distributor. You may only distribute
>> unopened Packs within your territory. ... Individual Hardware or
>> Software units may not be returned after the Pack is opened.
>> ...
>> 5. Distribution.
>> a. Software Preinstallation.
>> i. For each unit of Software in the Pack, you must pre-install one
>> copy
>> of the Software on a Customer System prior to distribution. If
>> the Software includes more than one language version, you must
>> install only one language version.
>> ii. For such pre-installation, you must use the OPK provided in the
>> pack or otherwise made available by us. You may use the
>> information, tools and materials contained in the OPK solely to
>> preinstall the Software in accordance with the OPK. ... You may
>> not distribute the OPK to the end user.
>> ...
>> b. End User License Terms. You must distribute the Software pursuant to
>> the end user license terms (â€œLicense Termsâ€) that accompany it.
>> Under the License Terms, you are the licensor.
>
> This license lays out the conditions of distribution only.
> You don't have to sell the computer to a third party.

Yes you do--read the above. A â€œSystem Builderâ€ is NOT allowed to use the
installation themselves. Just to make it even clearer:

4. Limited License. If you comply with the terms of this license, Microsoft
grants you a limited license to distribute the Software or Hardware.
Except as granted in this license, you may not use, run, copy, modify,
display, distribute, repackage or reassemble the Software, Hardware, OPK
or any part of them.

Has that sunk in yet?
> There is no qualifying criteria that defines a system builder ...

Yes there are, itâ€™s all spelled out in section 2 that I quoted above.
> And go shove all that ad hom bullshit up your sanctimonious arse.

Getting a bit tetchy about being a software pirate, perhaps?

Like I said, to be ignorant is one thing, but to wilfully remain so when
your ignorance is pointed out to you ...

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