vpb:You mean cutting your income doesn't help you pay bills? Sounds like socialisms!

Well, to be fair there is a case to be made for a counter-intuitive "lowering taxes increases revenue" argument. At least, to some degree. After all, with a 100% or 0% tax rate, your revenues would be quite low. I would think that finding that "sweet spot" for the highest revenue ought to be the goal, though finding that is probably near impossible.

Hey, I'm not stupid. I voted for people who didn't support his ridiculous tax cut plan. I talked up how idiotic it was to my friends and asked them to share the message. Hell, a not insignificant number of Republicans I talk to actually agree that it's ridiculous. Unfortunately, there are a bunch of farking lunatics out on the west end of the state who want the state to look like a Christian version of Pakistan.

nekom:vpb: You mean cutting your income doesn't help you pay bills? Sounds like socialisms!

Well, to be fair there is a case to be made for a counter-intuitive "lowering taxes increases revenue" argument. At least, to some degree. After all, with a 100% or 0% tax rate, your revenues would be quite low. I would think that finding that "sweet spot" for the highest revenue ought to be the goal, though finding that is probably near impossible.

Well done. Now, if you can make that insight quantitative you will have rediscovered the Laffer curve.

By the way, perfectly optimizing for revenue probably is impossible because the tax rates themselves feed forward into the system causing behavior to change, so the system is non-linear and quite possibly has no stable points.

The good news is, we don't need to achieve the highest revenue, or anything remotely close to it, in order to fund everything that government actually needs to do. The bad news is, if we only need to raise (say) 50% of the available revenue, determining which 50% to raise is a huge political problem, which is even harder to solve than the mathematical problem.

Vodka Zombie:So, what you're saying is that the Teabaggers have no idea what they're doing?

Quelle surprise!

Maybe you should vote with your own damn brains instead of what some gibbering moron on TV or AM radio tells you, eh?

There's always a few "color-me-shocked!" posts in every one of these threads. These conclusions may be obvious to you and me but clearly they are anything but to more salt-of-the-earth (morons) folk. It just sucks because these policies ruin real people's lives but most of them are either too stupid or too outnumbered to do anything about it. That makes me a sad panda.

nekom:vpb: You mean cutting your income doesn't help you pay bills? Sounds like socialisms!

Well, to be fair there is a case to be made for a counter-intuitive "lowering taxes increases revenue" argument. At least, to some degree. After all, with a 100% or 0% tax rate, your revenues would be quite low. I would think that finding that "sweet spot" for the highest revenue ought to be the goal, though finding that is probably near impossible.

There is a counter argument, that a state needs to have good roads, good schools and other services to attract tax paying population. Business that requires educated workforce will slowly move away thus reducing tax revenue further. Nobody has ever suggested 100%. Sweet spot is not at the point where you get most revenue to the states it's where the population feels it get most for the taxes paid.

vegasj:Kittypie070: Let them suffer the consequences of their own stupidity.

and this has been what I've been saying about Obama supporters.

raise the debt, tell people taxes will not be raised.

I don't see how both can be done yet.

At least for the time being, this is how it can be done. We can borrow money for twenty years and pay back less than we borrowed today. That means that if we were to cut spending or raise taxes to close the deficit, it would actually cost us MORE than it would to just plain borrow the money. Not doing it when the market is practically begging us to do it is insane. Why would you pay ten bucks for a product when you can pay nine bucks for the exact same product just a block down the road?

Well, it is. "Obama" is not a person."Obama" is a symbolic repository for all things evil."Obama" is that which causes the cow to sicken, and the milk to sour."Obama" is a dark cloud of homosexuality, socialism, atheism, Islam, and Communism that is overrunning the country."Obama" is the Devil.

nekom:vpb: You mean cutting your income doesn't help you pay bills? Sounds like socialisms!

Well, to be fair there is a case to be made for a counter-intuitive "lowering taxes increases revenue" argument. At least, to some degree. After all, with a 100% or 0% tax rate, your revenues would be quite low. I would think that finding that "sweet spot" for the highest revenue ought to be the goal, though finding that is probably near impossible.

The problem is that these people don't try to find that spot with any system that would make even the slightest amount of sense (like empiricisms, reading tea leaves or rolling dice), there only ever is one direction to look for that spot for them and it is down. They can fathom of any circumstance when lowering taxes would not be the right thing to do including when the tax rate is actually zero.

Under some circumstance jumping from a tall building makes sense (like the building being on fire and a group of fire-fighters holding a jump net down below or perhaps when you are wearing a parachute and know what you are doing) but that doesn't mean that jumping of buildings is always the right thing to do regardless of circumstances..

We have to suffer through major embarrassments like our Board of Education and Brownback...I have to sit helplessly as the Koch bros. primary the hell out of any moderate republican candidate...Then watch them roll to victory based on the (R) next to their name...

My beloved state is becoming the Tea Party dream - a place where a lack of basic services, government-licensed privatization of public property and regressive social polices make for a "job creator" paradise of low taxes and regulations...

You know what's funny - conservatives like to blame liberalism (or more generally a secular society) for a decline in "traditional values" but their policies hurt small cities and towns (bastions of more conservative ideas) by cutting public education and blocking access to quality healthcare.

The result is a under-educated, under-employable population that will, in my opinion, be much more likely to experience high-divorce rates, teen pregnancy and drug use.

We have to suffer through major embarrassments like our Board of Education and Brownback...I have to sit helplessly as the Koch bros. primary the hell out of any moderate republican candidate...Then watch them roll to victory based on the (R) next to their name...

My beloved state is becoming the Tea Party dream - a place where a lack of basic services, government-licensed privatization of public property and regressive social polices make for a "job creator" paradise of low taxes and regulations...

You know what's funny - conservatives like to blame liberalism (or more generally a secular society) for a decline in "traditional values" but their policies hurt small cities and towns (bastions of more conservative ideas) by cutting public education and blocking access to quality healthcare.

The result is a under-educated, under-employable population that will, in my opinion, be much more likely to experience high-divorce rates, teen pregnancy and drug use.

/I know, I talked about it anyway...

Move to Lawrence. We're trying to fight against the state becoming Brownbackistan.

FlameDuck:There is a counter argument, that a state needs to have good roads, good schools and other services to attract tax paying population. Business that requires educated workforce will slowly move away thus reducing tax revenue further. Nobody has ever suggested 100%. Sweet spot is not at the point where you get most revenue to the states it's where the population feels it get most for the taxes paid.

That's certainly true as well. "You didn't build that" could more accurately be put as "You didn't build that in a vacuum." Any business in America relies HEAVILY on infrastructure, no question about that. And yes, of course 100% would never be suggested as the "sweet spot", for the same reason that 0% wouldn't either. But I would think that you would want to try to approach higher revenue. And of course who pays more or less is subject to whether you are liberal or conservative on that.

You really didn't buy the whole "fiscal conservatism" thing from fiscal conservatives did you? Every Republican "conservative" administration in the last 2 plus decades has raised both the deficit and the debt.

But idiot voters keep buying into it. Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups.

The fallacy is the assertion by the commie editorialist that the state of Kansas has a responsibility to pay for all these commie dreams of his. Kansas needs to purge it's remaining liberals and it will be a utopia.

nekom:FlameDuck: There is a counter argument, that a state needs to have good roads, good schools and other services to attract tax paying population. Business that requires educated workforce will slowly move away thus reducing tax revenue further. Nobody has ever suggested 100%. Sweet spot is not at the point where you get most revenue to the states it's where the population feels it get most for the taxes paid.

That's certainly true as well. "You didn't build that" could more accurately be put as "You didn't build that in a vacuum." Any business in America relies HEAVILY on infrastructure, no question about that. And yes, of course 100% would never be suggested as the "sweet spot", for the same reason that 0% wouldn't either. But I would think that you would want to try to approach higher revenue. And of course who pays more or less is subject to whether you are liberal or conservative on that.

More importantly - they depend upon the existence of an organized, lawful, civilized society. One in which property may be legally owned and protected, in which contracts can be made and enforced, and in which some basic human needs are met. And this requires government.And if you are going to have a really big civilization, like ours, it's going to take a fairly big government to run it.So one good step to adulthood for Americans would be to cross the phrase "big government" off the official list of dirty words.

This like the House Republicans holding the country hostage is in a lot of ways the fault of the "reality based media" and their failure to call out the wreckless fiscal policy of deregulation, tax cuts, tax cuts, tax cuts, and more tax cuts out of fears of accusations of being biased.

Spending the reserve fund down to zero. Unlike many states, Kansas has no constitutional requirement to maintain a "rainy day" fund. Using the $470 million currently in the bank would provide a temporary partial fix, but for one year only. Kansas' structural budget imbalance won't go away unless the state finds more permanent sources of revenue. Eventually the imbalance and absence of a reserve fund could affect the state's bond rating.

Call me a conspiracy theorist, but like with Medicare and Social Security it seems to me that the "job creator" class sees this hunk of cash and it makes their mouths water. How do they get it? Well if you can't just take it, buy politicians who indirectly funnel it to you with disproportionate tax cuts in your favor while starving the government until they have to spend it. Of course you slowly break down the fabric of American society into some bastardized corproate caste system, but that is the point also.

We have to suffer through major embarrassments like our Board of Education and Brownback...I have to sit helplessly as the Koch bros. primary the hell out of any moderate republican candidate...Then watch them roll to victory based on the (R) next to their name...

My beloved state is becoming the Tea Party dream - a place where a lack of basic services, government-licensed privatization of public property and regressive social polices make for a "job creator" paradise of low taxes and regulations...

You know what's funny - conservatives like to blame liberalism (or more generally a secular society) for a decline in "traditional values" but their policies hurt small cities and towns (bastions of more conservative ideas) by cutting public education and blocking access to quality healthcare.

The result is a under-educated, under-employable population that will, in my opinion, be much more likely to experience high-divorce rates, teen pregnancy and drug use.

/I know, I talked about it anyway...

It needs to be repeated. At least the hyper-rich will be fine in their gated communities.

Noam Chimpsky:The fallacy is the assertion by the commie editorialist that the state of Kansas has a responsibility to pay for all these commie dreams of his. Kansas needs to purge it's remaining liberals and it will be a utopia.

jso2897:So one good step to adulthood for Americans would be to cross the phrase "big government" off the official list of dirty words.

Depends on the context. Where government is wasteful, it should be fixed. As a lefty, I believe that taxes should be as low as possible while still taking care of our citizens, and I do believe that the wealthy should pay more. But even I will admit that there are some government programs in bad need of reform, or outright cancellation.

But you're absolutely right, without the rule of law and the structure of private property, any form of capitalism would be unworkable.

nekom:Well, to be fair there is a case to be made for a counter-intuitive "lowering taxes increases revenue" argument. At least, to some degree. After all, with a 100% or 0% tax rate, your revenues would be quite low. I would think that finding that "sweet spot" for the highest revenue ought to be the goal, though finding that is probably near impossible.

The problem is that most Americans struggle with grade school arithmetic while modeling something as complex as our economy can only reasonably be approximated by a set of differential equations. Laffer may have been an accomplished economist but his "law" is something that every Calculus 101 student has learned since there was Calculus 101; it's a property of just about any real continuous function, and the response to it should have been "well farkin duh, maybe you should slow down on the beers, lightweight".

Noam Chimpsky:The fallacy is the assertion by the commie editorialist that the state of Kansas has a responsibility to pay for all these commie dreams of his. Kansas needs to purge it's remaining liberals and it will be a utopia.

Duke Phillips' Singing Bears:Noam Chimpsky: The fallacy is the assertion by the commie editorialist that the state of Kansas has a responsibility to pay for all these commie dreams of his. Kansas needs to purge it's remaining liberals and it will be a utopia.

Is this a Mike Lowell thing? It's a Mike Lowell thing.

Perhaps that's something like Mars being a perfectly fine world without any life on it..

We have to suffer through major embarrassments like our Board of Education and Brownback...I have to sit helplessly as the Koch bros. primary the hell out of any moderate republican candidate...Then watch them roll to victory based on the (R) next to their name...

My beloved state is becoming the Tea Party dream - a place where a lack of basic services, government-licensed privatization of public property and regressive social polices make for a "job creator" paradise of low taxes and regulations...

You know what's funny - conservatives like to blame liberalism (or more generally a secular society) for a decline in "traditional values" but their policies hurt small cities and towns (bastions of more conservative ideas) by cutting public education and blocking access to quality healthcare.

The result is a under-educated, under-employable population that will, in my opinion, be much more likely to experience high-divorce rates, teen pregnancy and drug use.

/I know, I talked about it anyway...

It needs to be repeated. At least the hyper-rich will be fine in their gated communities.

It's funny - there's an article whining about the "budget shortfall." There's a bunch of you Farkers whining about those awful Tea Party people who messed with the inviolable Kansas tax scheme.

Oddly, there's not much mention of the $13.4 billion dollar budget. Which could be cut by a mere five percent to save that $707 million. It's a shame the Kansas state budget is so well-designed that they can't manage to cut five percent off of it within a year or so.

cirby:Oddly, there's not much mention of the $13.4 billion dollar budget. Which could be cut by a mere five percent to save that $707 million. It's a shame the Kansas state budget is so well-designed that they can't manage to cut five percent off of it within a year or so

Oh they'll find someplace to cut that $707M. They'll find it in places like medicaid, education, child protective services, welfare, and university funding. Next year they'll be faced with a similar situation and so will go on another round of cuts and repeat this annually until the state is an ignorant, impoverished backwater that subsists on federal farm subsidies.

jso2897:Noam Chimpsky: The fallacy is the assertion by the commie editorialist that the state of Kansas has a responsibility to pay for all these commie dreams of his. Kansas needs to purge it's remaining liberals and it will be a utopia.

Yeah. That's probably not how this is going to shake out.

You want Kansans to be taxed to finance the parasitic existence of those who can't or won't finance their own existence. Cutting taxes effectively chokes off and purges these parasites and improves the quality of the state. Obama gets revenge against conservatives at the federal level and conservatives need to get revenge against the parasite left where they can, and that is at the state level in these liberal states.

Monkeyhouse Zendo:cirby: Oddly, there's not much mention of the $13.4 billion dollar budget. Which could be cut by a mere five percent to save that $707 million. It's a shame the Kansas state budget is so well-designed that they can't manage to cut five percent off of it within a year or so

Oh they'll find someplace to cut that $707M. They'll find it in places like medicaid, education, child protective services, welfare, and university funding. Next year they'll be faced with a similar situation and so will go on another round of cuts and repeat this annually until the state is an ignorant, impoverished backwater that subsists on federal farm subsidies.

Monkeyhouse Zendo.

So, you're saying things will be pretty much status quo in Kansas for the near future?

Monkeyhouse Zendo:nekom: Well, to be fair there is a case to be made for a counter-intuitive "lowering taxes increases revenue" argument. At least, to some degree. After all, with a 100% or 0% tax rate, your revenues would be quite low. I would think that finding that "sweet spot" for the highest revenue ought to be the goal, though finding that is probably near impossible.

The problem is that most Americans struggle with grade school arithmetic while modeling something as complex as our economy can only reasonably be approximated by a set of differential equations. Laffer may have been an accomplished economist but his "law" is something that every Calculus 101 student has learned since there was Calculus 101; it's a property of just about any real continuous function, and the response to it should have been "well farkin duh, maybe you should slow down on the beers, lightweight".

This. Also, Republicans initially used the Laffer curve to justify cutting taxes in moderation to get to that "sweet spot." Fair enough. Nowadays, though, they're just throwing that out of the window and assuming that taxes ALWAYS need to be lower. They have no concept of the possibility that we might already be to the left of ideal on the Laffer curve, and they just assume that the peak of the Laffer curve is at zero, as though the Laffer curve were described by the upper right quadrant of y=(1/x).

spongeboob:Milo Minderbinder: wildcatben: I don't even want to talk about this...

We have to suffer through major embarrassments like our Board of Education and Brownback...I have to sit helplessly as the Koch bros. primary the hell out of any moderate republican candidate...Then watch them roll to victory based on the (R) next to their name...

My beloved state is becoming the Tea Party dream - a place where a lack of basic services, government-licensed privatization of public property and regressive social polices make for a "job creator" paradise of low taxes and regulations...

You know what's funny - conservatives like to blame liberalism (or more generally a secular society) for a decline in "traditional values" but their policies hurt small cities and towns (bastions of more conservative ideas) by cutting public education and blocking access to quality healthcare.

The result is a under-educated, under-employable population that will, in my opinion, be much more likely to experience high-divorce rates, teen pregnancy and drug use.

/I know, I talked about it anyway...

It needs to be repeated. At least the hyper-rich will be fine in their gated communities.

For awhile anyways

Yeah, that is what really scares me. I really don't feel like ighting in the Second American Civil War.

Monkeyhouse Zendo:cirby: Oddly, there's not much mention of the $13.4 billion dollar budget. Which could be cut by a mere five percent to save that $707 million. It's a shame the Kansas state budget is so well-designed that they can't manage to cut five percent off of it within a year or so

Oh they'll find someplace to cut that $707M. They'll find it in places like medicaid, education, child protective services, welfare, and university funding. Next year they'll be faced with a similar situation and so will go on another round of cuts and repeat this annually until the state is an ignorant, impoverished backwater that subsists on federal farm subsidies.

How does chasing the impoverished out of your state make your state more impoverished? It seems to me it would make the state they move to more impoverished and lower the poverty in your state.

spongeboob:Milo Minderbinder: wildcatben: I don't even want to talk about this...

We have to suffer through major embarrassments like our Board of Education and Brownback...I have to sit helplessly as the Koch bros. primary the hell out of any moderate republican candidate...Then watch them roll to victory based on the (R) next to their name...

My beloved state is becoming the Tea Party dream - a place where a lack of basic services, government-licensed privatization of public property and regressive social polices make for a "job creator" paradise of low taxes and regulations...

You know what's funny - conservatives like to blame liberalism (or more generally a secular society) for a decline in "traditional values" but their policies hurt small cities and towns (bastions of more conservative ideas) by cutting public education and blocking access to quality healthcare.

The result is a under-educated, under-employable population that will, in my opinion, be much more likely to experience high-divorce rates, teen pregnancy and drug use.

/I know, I talked about it anyway...

It needs to be repeated. At least the hyper-rich will be fine in their gated communities.

For awhile anyways

Yep. Eventually the decay of American society they have created will breach their gated communities and they will be forced to face the consequences of their actions. The bad/scary part is how much of Rome will have to burn down before this happens? Will the middle class be totally decimated by then?

nekom:I would think that finding that "sweet spot" for the highest revenue ought to be the goal, though finding that is probably near impossible.

I think its probably a moving target which means you need legislators who are willing and able to collect and evaluate evidence and raise or lower taxes as needed.

In other words, it's hopeless as long as the Teavangelicals are in charge of one of the two major parties. The solution seems obvious: either the party needs to toss the baggers, or it needs to become a minor party like the Greens and Libertarians and be replaced by something sane.

nekom:vpb: You mean cutting your income doesn't help you pay bills? Sounds like socialisms!

Well, to be fair there is a case to be made for a counter-intuitive "lowering taxes increases revenue" argument. At least, to some degree. After all, with a 100% or 0% tax rate, your revenues would be quite low. I would think that finding that "sweet spot" for the highest revenue ought to be the goal, though finding that is probably near impossible.

To the Tea Party, the Laffer curve has no left half. Then again, they don't care... they don't believe the government should be providing free education or roads... that's a problem for the free market to fix.

Barbaro's Broken Ankle:Everybody laughs at Kansas, but be aware that Brownback is just building up his conservative credentials in preparation for a run at President in 2016.

You're right, and Brownback is pretty adept as far as Teabaggers go, But 2016 is not a good year for a Teabagger to run on the Republican ticket. Like Obama said in yesterday's announcement at the White House, the public voted for the Obama budget and against the Ryan budget. In 2016 Obama will have 12 million new jobs and a shrinking debt and deficit to point to, he'll be able to credit his budget as the reason, and he'll be the Democratic nominee's Cheerleader In Chirf. A Teabagger candidate promising a return to Bush-era trickle-down economics isn't going to have much success. Perhaps, though, 2020 may be the time for the Tea Party to become and actual party (as opposed to a movement within the Republican party) and run its own candidate.

Noam Chimpsky:How does chasing the impoverished out of your state make your state more impoverished? It seems to me it would make the state they move to more impoverished and lower the poverty in your state.

Notabunny:Barbaro's Broken Ankle: Everybody laughs at Kansas, but be aware that Brownback is just building up his conservative credentials in preparation for a run at President in 2016.

You're right, and Brownback is pretty adept as far as Teabaggers go, But 2016 is not a good year for a Teabagger to run on the Republican ticket. Like Obama said in yesterday's announcement at the White House, the public voted for the Obama budget and against the Ryan budget. In 2016 Obama will have 12 million new jobs and a shrinking debt and deficit to point to, he'll be able to credit his budget as the reason, and he'll be the Democratic nominee's Cheerleader In Chirf. A Teabagger candidate promising a return to Bush-era trickle-down economics isn't going to have much success. Perhaps, though, 2020 may be the time for the Tea Party to become and actual party (as opposed to a movement within the Republican party) and run its own candidate.

Gonna have to disagree with Obama there. Because while I voted for him, I guarantee that, like me, no one else has a flying farking clue what the Ryan budget was because IT WAS A farkING CAMPAIGN SECRET.

In any case, let these people vote themselves into farking oblivion; ignorant, shiat-eating morans.

Notabunny:Barbaro's Broken Ankle: Everybody laughs at Kansas, but be aware that Brownback is just building up his conservative credentials in preparation for a run at President in 2016.

You're right, and Brownback is pretty adept as far as Teabaggers go, But 2016 is not a good year for a Teabagger to run on the Republican ticket. Like Obama said in yesterday's announcement at the White House, the public voted for the Obama budget and against the Ryan budget. In 2016 Obama will have 12 million new jobs and a shrinking debt and deficit to point to, he'll be able to credit his budget as the reason, and he'll be the Democratic nominee's Cheerleader In Chirf. A Teabagger candidate promising a return to Bush-era trickle-down economics isn't going to have much success. Perhaps, though, 2020 may be the time for the Tea Party to become and actual party (as opposed to a movement within the Republican party) and run its own candidate.

Your analysis is cogent and rational, it however depends on the majority of Americans 1) Also being cogent and rational 2) Not deciding to listen to the voices in their heads telling them to kill and maim 3) House Republicans can't figure out some way to crash the economy beforehand and blaming the Democrats.

I'm not saying your scenario is impossible, but it will require more maturity than the average voter has shown thus far.

Noam Chimpsky:jso2897: Noam Chimpsky: The fallacy is the assertion by the commie editorialist that the state of Kansas has a responsibility to pay for all these commie dreams of his. Kansas needs to purge it's remaining liberals and it will be a utopia.

Yeah. That's probably not how this is going to shake out.

You want Kansans to be taxed to finance the parasitic existence of those who can't or won't finance their own existence. Cutting taxes effectively chokes off and purges these parasites and improves the quality of the state. Obama gets revenge against conservatives at the federal level and conservatives need to get revenge against the parasite left where they can, and that is at the state level in these liberal states.

I'm not talking about what I want. I'm talking about what is going to happen. The boomers are dying and the immigrants are coming. The Reagan years are over. The country is going to move in a new direction now - as it always does every generation or so. It ain't the end of the world.Love it or hate it - you'd better prepare yourself to deal with it.As far as what I want - it's not important, and anyway, I try to keep my desires reality-based, and view them in the context of the world I actually live in.

I guess Kansas is in a race to beat West Virginia to be the poster child for the American state most affected by the Resource Curse. West Virgina has an edge because energy resources are usually the ones driving the curse, but Kansas is making a bold play to have cereal grains be considered the New Coal.

The inevitable consequence of electing a group of people who love a fictional version of your country, but outwardly despise the reality of it. Their true faith in bagger-economics will drag you to oblivion, and they'll just screech the national anthem louder and louder to drown out your protest.

Vertdang:Don't forget. These are people who will reject empirical evidence because "it feels right in my gut". Facts and logic do not apply here.

It's Faith Based Economics. The last 30 years the country spent on deregulation and the Laffer Curve speak for themselves: a series of boom-bust cycles, a gutting of the middle class, chronic loss of industry, a dangerous reliance of the GDP on the financial sector, and a historically unprecedented disparity in wealth. None of this penetrates the message Teahadists hear from the moral authorities in the top 0.1%, their living 'proof' the policies work. By flooding whole-owned media outlets with messages concocted of base self-interest, religion, patriotism and strength, the tiny sliver owning most of the country profit from manipulating the middle class to defend to the point of revolt policies grievously harmful to their self-interest. Obvious failures, and the counter-arguments based on them, are accused of being the institutional bias responsible for failure and attacked with transparent lies like labor participation rate, unemployment numbers and gas prices.

By any reasonable reading of Merriam-Webster the manipulators behind this are traitors. That Teadhadists are only useful tools doesn't make finding common ground with their fantasy the correct solution.

Giltric:Notabunny: In 2016 Obama will have 12 million new jobs and a shrinking debt and deficit to point to

Gross or net?

/he was counting gross during the campaign.

I don't imagine that most voters will know or care. When Obama is campaigning for the Democratic nominee in 2016, he's going to repeat 2 numbers; "We were losing 800,000 jobs per month when I took office," and "My budget created 12,000,000 new jobs in the last four years alone," A Republican or Tea Party candidate isn't likely to win many votes by arguing "Yes, but those are gross not net jobs,"

As a Kansan, I can say without question that these tax cuts benefit me personally. It's like they looked at my situation (multiple corps, partnership, and rental-property income) and devised a plan that ensured I will pay absolutely no state income tax. None. Zip. Nada.

W-2 wage earners? They continue to pay. And now, thanks to our brilliant governor, they will pay a much higher percentage of the state's revenue than before. This, my friends, is a perfect example of a regressive tax. Hurting the little people is OK as long as the rich benefit. Let them eat cake!

At first, I thought this plan was just an example of how stupid these small men are. I thought that they were living in a fantasy world thinking that this plan will attract new businesses into the state. Obviously, no business owner is going to relocate to Kansas simply because the owner will pay no state income tax. Anyone who believes this myth exposes just how little they understand about the dynamics of owning a business.

Upon reflection, I realized they can't possibly be this stupid. They don't suffer from ignorance; instead, they are simply bad people. Let's face it: W-2 wage earners don't donate to Republican campaigns. High earners do. Screw the W-2 earners!

From their point of view, ruining a once great place to live is simply a cost of ensuring reelection. It's nothing more, nothing less. Thus, this is not a "tax plan" or "business development program". It's just a cynical plan to ensure reelection.

sprawl15:born_yesterday: Because while I voted for him, I guarantee that, like me, no one else has a flying farking clue what the Ryan budget was because IT WAS A farkING CAMPAIGN SECRET.

Bullshiat. The Ryan budget is actually a series of budgets Ryan released and can be found in about 10 seconds on Google. It's pretty much all he did in Congress.

You are aware that Ryan was not built in Romney's lab specifically for the campaign, right?

I didn't believe you, so I looked it up. Jesus, a child could be raised on lead paint and come up with a better plan than that. I guess the good part is that you could write the plan on your hand so you didn't forget it.

I will not concede that his conception was not in vitro., nor that he is not a meat popsicle .

We have to suffer through major embarrassments like our Board of Education and Brownback...I have to sit helplessly as the Koch bros. primary the hell out of any moderate republican candidate...Then watch them roll to victory based on the (R) next to their name...

My beloved state is becoming the Tea Party dream - a place where a lack of basic services, government-licensed privatization of public property and regressive social polices make for a "job creator" paradise of low taxes and regulations...

You know what's funny - conservatives like to blame liberalism (or more generally a secular society) for a decline in "traditional values" but their policies hurt small cities and towns (bastions of more conservative ideas) by cutting public education and blocking access to quality healthcare.

The result is a under-educated, under-employable population that will, in my opinion, be much more likely to experience high-divorce rates, teen pregnancy and drug use.

They get no sympathy from me. Anyone who suppports Tea Party candidates for any office deserves what they get, good and hard. And those who oppose the Tea Party had better get busy if they want to survive.

born_yesterday:Jesus, a child could be raised on lead paint and come up with a better plan than that.

Yup. Now go back and think about this - the Ryan budget is the ONLY reason to bring Ryan into the campaign. His entire role in Congress was to be That One Guy who does nothing but shiat out nearly insane budgets to help push the point of compromise to the right (kinda like the guy at a bazaar who marks everything up $100 solely to move the haggle point up $20). Then, promptly after picking him up, the campaign disavowed any approval of the Ryan budget. THEN they refused to offer an alternative, or even mention material differences between the theoretical plan and the Ryan budget other than "Well, it's better."

ebamit:As a Kansan, I can say without question that these tax cuts benefit me personally. It's like they looked at my situation (multiple corps, partnership, and rental-property income) and devised a plan that ensured I will pay absolutely no state income tax. None. Zip. Nada.

W-2 wage earners? They continue to pay. And now, thanks to our brilliant governor, they will pay a much higher percentage of the state's revenue than before. This, my friends, is a perfect example of a regressive tax. Hurting the little people is OK as long as the rich benefit. Let them eat cake!

At first, I thought this plan was just an example of how stupid these small men are. I thought that they were living in a fantasy world thinking that this plan will attract new businesses into the state. Obviously, no business owner is going to relocate to Kansas simply because the owner will pay no state income tax. Anyone who believes this myth exposes just how little they understand about the dynamics of owning a business.

Upon reflection, I realized they can't possibly be this stupid. They don't suffer from ignorance; instead, they are simply bad people. Let's face it: W-2 wage earners don't donate to Republican campaigns. High earners do. Screw the W-2 earners!

From their point of view, ruining a once great place to live is simply a cost of ensuring reelection. It's nothing more, nothing less. Thus, this is not a "tax plan" or "business development program". It's just a cynical plan to ensure reelection.

I may be a W-2 earner, but these tax cuts will also benefit me since the top bracket was reduced by, what, 1.5%? That's about an extra grand in my pocket. And I would still rather have them repeal these cuts so that we can keep the state from becoming a rat-infested shiathole.

sprawl15:born_yesterday: Jesus, a child could be raised on lead paint and come up with a better plan than that.

Yup. Now go back and think about this - the Ryan budget is the ONLY reason to bring Ryan into the campaign. His entire role in Congress was to be That One Guy who does nothing but shiat out nearly insane budgets to help push the point of compromise to the right (kinda like the guy at a bazaar who marks everything up $100 solely to move the haggle point up $20). Then, promptly after picking him up, the campaign disavowed any approval of the Ryan budget. THEN they refused to offer an alternative, or even mention material differences between the theoretical plan and the Ryan budget other than "Well, it's better."

We have to suffer through major embarrassments like our Board of Education and Brownback...I have to sit helplessly as the Koch bros. primary the hell out of any moderate republican candidate...Then watch them roll to victory based on the (R) next to their name...

My beloved state is becoming the Tea Party dream - a place where a lack of basic services, government-licensed privatization of public property and regressive social polices make for a "job creator" paradise of low taxes and regulations...

You know what's funny - conservatives like to blame liberalism (or more generally a secular society) for a decline in "traditional values" but their policies hurt small cities and towns (bastions of more conservative ideas) by cutting public education and blocking access to quality healthcare.

The result is a under-educated, under-employable population that will, in my opinion, be much more likely to experience high-divorce rates, teen pregnancy and drug use.

/I know, I talked about it anyway...

Scott Walker is proudly following the Kansas model for Wisconsin.

Yeah Wisconsin would be so much better with Doyle's left over billion dollar holes! Because that way we would have freedom!

They left off one thing that Kansas can still do to close the budget gap. Sell off State owned assets. There is quite a bit they can do:

1. Sell the prisons to for profit companies. The inmates can pay for the operation of the prison by working at whatever jobs their corporate owners can make money with them doing. This strikes me as a way to also solve the migrant labor problem as low risk prisoners can be used to pick crops at harvest. I would imagine that arrests for short time offenses would go up right before harvest time.

2. Sell the roads and bridges, tolls everywhere. You can drive like 90MPH in Texas now on that freedom loving toll road.

3. Sell the State offices and buildings. Right now there are too many State employees as it is. There is no need to all that office space. Sell it off, especially after you fire most of the State workers, and lease back smaller offices from the corporations that now own the property.

4. Sell of the State parks and recreation areas to private recreation and resort companies. People that can't afford to pay an entrance fee to a nice lake or park should be working more anyway.

5. Sell off the schools, use whatever Federal dollars come in for education to pay for a voucher. The free market and churches will provide stuff like classroom VCRs for learnin' your young ones.

I'm surprised I could think of many ways to solve the Kansas budget crisis and this article only thinks that a useless rainy day fund is the only way they are going to do it.

spelletrader:The cuts in education ensure that the people remain uneducated enough to vote for the teabagging idiots.

Looks like Kansas is the next Mississippi.

I used to be stationed at Fort Riley, Kansas with the 1st Infantry Division. The shiathole town next door would have dried up and died without the money coming in from the base, but every local had a chip on their shoulder about how they all pulled themselves up without any government help.

I work for one of the universities here in-state. It's going to be hilarious to hear my co-workers biatch about Obama when they start announcing the massive funding cuts. And believe me, they absolutely will.

wingnut396:They left off one thing that Kansas can still do to close the budget gap. Sell off State owned assets. There is quite a bit they can do:

1. Sell the prisons to for profit companies. The inmates can pay for the operation of the prison by working at whatever jobs their corporate owners can make money with them doing. This strikes me as a way to also solve the migrant labor problem as low risk prisoners can be used to pick crops at harvest. I would imagine that arrests for short time offenses would go up right before harvest time.

2. Sell the roads and bridges, tolls everywhere. You can drive like 90MPH in Texas now on that freedom loving toll road.

3. Sell the State offices and buildings. Right now there are too many State employees as it is. There is no need to all that office space. Sell it off, especially after you fire most of the State workers, and lease back smaller offices from the corporations that now own the property.

4. Sell of the State parks and recreation areas to private recreation and resort companies. People that can't afford to pay an entrance fee to a nice lake or park should be working more anyway.

5. Sell off the schools, use whatever Federal dollars come in for education to pay for a voucher. The free market and churches will provide stuff like classroom VCRs for learnin' your young ones.

I'm surprised I could think of many ways to solve the Kansas budget crisis and this article only thinks that a useless rainy day fund is the only way they are going to do it.

They can also cut back on fire services and police and go the Colorado Springs route.Link

This is the new faith based budgeting system. (We have faith that them damn socalizt will bail us out)

wingnut396:They left off one thing that Kansas can still do to close the budget gap. Sell off State owned assets. There is quite a bit they can do:

1. Sell the prisons to for profit companies. The inmates can pay for the operation of the prison by working at whatever jobs their corporate owners can make money with them doing. This strikes me as a way to also solve the migrant labor problem as low risk prisoners can be used to pick crops at harvest. I would imagine that arrests for short time offenses would go up right before harvest time.

2. Sell the roads and bridges, tolls everywhere. You can drive like 90MPH in Texas now on that freedom loving toll road.

3. Sell the State offices and buildings. Right now there are too many State employees as it is. There is no need to all that office space. Sell it off, especially after you fire most of the State workers, and lease back smaller offices from the corporations that now own the property.

4. Sell of the State parks and recreation areas to private recreation and resort companies. People that can't afford to pay an entrance fee to a nice lake or park should be working more anyway.

5. Sell off the schools, use whatever Federal dollars come in for education to pay for a voucher. The free market and churches will provide stuff like classroom VCRs for learnin' your young ones.

I'm surprised I could think of many ways to solve the Kansas budget crisis and this article only thinks that a useless rainy day fund is the only way they are going to do it.

The speed limit on the Kansas Turnpike is 75. Even private roads can't go up to 90.

Now that NC has veto proof majorities of Republicans in both houses, and a Republican Governor as well, I expect that same kind of nonsense coming out of our legislature starting next year. McCrory is talking about how the government is "broken" and he's bringing a businessman's viewpoint to the state, but so far he's not provided any particulars on what he will do.

Nothing on that list from Kansas though would surprise me if they came up with it. Our Republicans aren't any smarter than theirs, unfortunately.

wasn't there some talk about cutting state taxes on all incomes above $200,000 to zero? or did i dream it? in any case - i can't tell anymore between satire and reality. the right wing is just that farking crazy.

Sgt Otter:spelletrader: The cuts in education ensure that the people remain uneducated enough to vote for the teabagging idiots.

Looks like Kansas is the next Mississippi.

I used to be stationed at Fort Riley, Kansas with the 1st Infantry Division. The shiathole town next door would have dried up and died without the money coming in from the base, but every local had a chip on their shoulder about how they all pulled themselves up without any government help.

First - Happy Veteran's Day, thank you for your service.

I was at McConnell twice TDY and once to stay at the BEQ while passing through on a cross country road trip. Not nearly as much time as being stationed there, yet I saw this same attitude - even by some of the contractors whose entire livelihood came from Uncle Sam's tit.

Noam Chimpsky:jso2897: Noam Chimpsky: The fallacy is the assertion by the commie editorialist that the state of Kansas has a responsibility to pay for all these commie dreams of his. Kansas needs to purge it's remaining liberals and it will be a utopia.

Yeah. That's probably not how this is going to shake out.

You want Kansans to be taxed to finance the parasitic existence of those who can't or won't finance their own existence. Cutting taxes effectively chokes off and purges these parasites and improves the quality of the state. Obama gets revenge against conservatives at the federal level and conservatives need to get revenge against the parasite left where they can, and that is at the state level in these liberal states.

Bendal:Now that NC has veto proof majorities of Republicans in both houses, and a Republican Governor as well, I expect that same kind of nonsense coming out of our legislature starting next year. McCrory is talking about how the government is "broken" and he's bringing a businessman's viewpoint to the state, but so far he's not provided any particulars on what he will do.

Nothing on that list from Kansas though would surprise me if they came up with it. Our Republicans aren't any smarter than theirs, unfortunately.

Bendal:McCrory is talking about how the government is "broken" and he's bringing a businessman's viewpoint to the state

MO dodged that bullet this election.

Luckily he was very incompetent in running a campaign as well as the fact that the incumbent is well like here due to his moderate views.

What I would like to know is when in the history of politics has business success = success in politics? The only businessman I can think of is Berlesconi, and we all know what kind of job he did with Italy.

Red state Kansas receives $1.12 cents in Federal spending for every dollar it pays in Federal taxes. New Jersey, a solid blue state, comes in dead last, receiving only 61 cents in Federal spending for every dollar paid in.

cirby:It's funny - there's an article whining about the "budget shortfall." There's a bunch of you Farkers whining about those awful Tea Party people who messed with the inviolable Kansas tax scheme.

Oddly, there's not much mention of the $13.4 billion dollar budget. Which could be cut by a mere five percent to save that $707 million. It's a shame the Kansas state budget is so well-designed that they can't manage to cut five percent off of it within a year or so.

Oh, wait...

What a farking moron might look like. Seriously, idiots like this are why Kansas is in the mess it's in to begin with.

We have to suffer through major embarrassments like our Board of Education and Brownback...I have to sit helplessly as the Koch bros. primary the hell out of any moderate republican candidate...Then watch them roll to victory based on the (R) next to their name...

My beloved state is becoming the Tea Party dream - a place where a lack of basic services, government-licensed privatization of public property and regressive social polices make for a "job creator" paradise of low taxes and regulations...

You know what's funny - conservatives like to blame liberalism (or more generally a secular society) for a decline in "traditional values" but their policies hurt small cities and towns (bastions of more conservative ideas) by cutting public education and blocking access to quality healthcare.

The result is a under-educated, under-employable population that will, in my opinion, be much more likely to experience high-divorce rates, teen pregnancy and drug use.

/I know, I talked about it anyway...

What is like to ask these guys is this: what does a conservative utopia *look* like? Draw me a picture.

It has to be a concrete thing. It can't be an abstract ideal. What does Main Street look like? Then I would start to ask "How did that road get built?" And want another concrete answer.

We have to suffer through major embarrassments like our Board of Education and Brownback...I have to sit helplessly as the Koch bros. primary the hell out of any moderate republican candidate...Then watch them roll to victory based on the (R) next to their name...

My beloved state is becoming the Tea Party dream - a place where a lack of basic services, government-licensed privatization of public property and regressive social polices make for a "job creator" paradise of low taxes and regulations...

You know what's funny - conservatives like to blame liberalism (or more generally a secular society) for a decline in "traditional values" but their policies hurt small cities and towns (bastions of more conservative ideas) by cutting public education and blocking access to quality healthcare.

The result is a under-educated, under-employable population that will, in my opinion, be much more likely to experience high-divorce rates, teen pregnancy and drug use.

/I know, I talked about it anyway...

What is like to ask these guys is this: what does a conservative utopia *look* like? Draw me a picture.

It has to be a concrete thing. It can't be an abstract ideal. What does Main Street look like? Then I would start to ask "How did that road get built?" And want another concrete answer.

cirby:It's funny - there's an article whining about the "budget shortfall." There's a bunch of you Farkers whining about those awful Tea Party people who messed with the inviolable Kansas tax scheme.

Oddly, there's not much mention of the $13.4 billion dollar budget. Which could be cut by a mere five percent to save that $707 million. It's a shame the Kansas state budget is so well-designed that they can't manage to cut five percent off of it within a year or so.

Lawnchair:swahnhennessy: Serious Black: Move to Lawrence. We're trying to fight against the state becoming Brownbackistan.

Not doing so hot of a job at it. Couldn't even keep the 3rd District Democrat.

Since all of Lawrence is in the 2nd now, with Emporia and Coffeyville (and over half of Lawrence has been for a decade), it would be pretty amazing if it could keep the 3rd Democratic.

We were almost split into the 1st, the 2nd, and the 3rd in redistricting. Luckily, the legislature couldn't figure out a plan that would pass both houses and get the governor's signature, so the court stepped in and did a pretty good job of maintaining communities of interest.

We have to suffer through major embarrassments like our Board of Education and Brownback...I have to sit helplessly as the Koch bros. primary the hell out of any moderate republican candidate...Then watch them roll to victory based on the (R) next to their name...

My beloved state is becoming the Tea Party dream - a place where a lack of basic services, government-licensed privatization of public property and regressive social polices make for a "job creator" paradise of low taxes and regulations...

You know what's funny - conservatives like to blame liberalism (or more generally a secular society) for a decline in "traditional values" but their policies hurt small cities and towns (bastions of more conservative ideas) by cutting public education and blocking access to quality healthcare.

The result is a under-educated, under-employable population that will, in my opinion, be much more likely to experience high-divorce rates, teen pregnancy and drug use.

/I know, I talked about it anyway...

And they can blame this decay squarely on those evil liberal values corrupting their paradise, which in reality is a neo-slave state. Sounds like the Koch brothers get exactly what they want here.

cabbyman:LarryDan43: wildcatben: I don't even want to talk about this...

We have to suffer through major embarrassments like our Board of Education and Brownback...I have to sit helplessly as the Koch bros. primary the hell out of any moderate republican candidate...Then watch them roll to victory based on the (R) next to their name...

My beloved state is becoming the Tea Party dream - a place where a lack of basic services, government-licensed privatization of public property and regressive social polices make for a "job creator" paradise of low taxes and regulations...

You know what's funny - conservatives like to blame liberalism (or more generally a secular society) for a decline in "traditional values" but their policies hurt small cities and towns (bastions of more conservative ideas) by cutting public education and blocking access to quality healthcare.

The result is a under-educated, under-employable population that will, in my opinion, be much more likely to experience high-divorce rates, teen pregnancy and drug use.

/I know, I talked about it anyway...

Scott Walker is proudly following the Kansas model for Wisconsin.

Yeah Wisconsin would be so much better with Doyle's left over billion dollar holes! Because that way we would have freedom!

Oddly enough, it's always the Democrats who start screaming about cutting those things, instead of cutting, oh, "arts programs" (which somehow always seem to give money to fifth-rate failed artists who are friends with one or another local politician, to teach poor kids how to do really bad art) or "beautification projects" (which, by random chance, always seem to happen right in front of the homes of local or state politicians, and are awarded to relatives of same).

That happened in my own home town this year. Budget cuts? The Democrat politicians started right in with "we have to cut POLICE AND FIRE budgets," when most folks were saying "why not cut the $200 million plus you want to spend on the performing arts center that nobody really asked for?"

That said, you can cut huge amounts of waste out of pretty much any local or state budget without touching the meat of the things you list - yes, even Medicare and Medicaid. There is, basically, no real fraud investigation going on in Medicare - criminals have to pretty much jump up and down holding a sign that says "CROOK" just to get someone's attention.

Mrtraveler01:cirby: It's funny - there's an article whining about the "budget shortfall." There's a bunch of you Farkers whining about those awful Tea Party people who messed with the inviolable Kansas tax scheme.

Oddly, there's not much mention of the $13.4 billion dollar budget. Which could be cut by a mere five percent to save that $707 million. It's a shame the Kansas state budget is so well-designed that they can't manage to cut five percent off of it within a year or so.

cirby:Oddly enough, it's always the Democrats who start screaming about cutting those things, instead of cutting, oh, "arts programs" (which somehow always seem to give money to fifth-rate failed artists who are friends with one or another local politician, to teach poor kids how to do really bad art) or "beautification projects" (which, by random chance, always seem to happen right in front of the homes of local or state politicians, and are awarded to relatives of same).

It's not our fault you live in a shiatty state with no controls on how public funds are spent to keep the most egregious examples of public graft to a minimum.

We have to suffer through major embarrassments like our Board of Education and Brownback...I have to sit helplessly as the Koch bros. primary the hell out of any moderate republican candidate...Then watch them roll to victory based on the (R) next to their name...

My beloved state is becoming the Tea Party dream - a place where a lack of basic services, government-licensed privatization of public property and regressive social polices make for a "job creator" paradise of low taxes and regulations...

You know what's funny - conservatives like to blame liberalism (or more generally a secular society) for a decline in "traditional values" but their policies hurt small cities and towns (bastions of more conservative ideas) by cutting public education and blocking access to quality healthcare.

The result is a under-educated, under-employable population that will, in my opinion, be much more likely to experience high-divorce rates, teen pregnancy and drug use.

/I know, I talked about it anyway...

What is like to ask these guys is this: what does a conservative utopia *look* like? Draw me a picture.

It has to be a concrete thing. It can't be an abstract ideal. What does Main Street look like? Then I would start to ask "How did that road get built?" And want another concrete answer.

The wealthy can drive on the paved roads because they earned the right to, it can be maintained by a small fee. IF you cannot pay that, it is your own fault for not loving Jesus enough that he'll bless you with money.

Noam Chimpsky:Mrtraveler01: cirby: It's funny - there's an article whining about the "budget shortfall." There's a bunch of you Farkers whining about those awful Tea Party people who messed with the inviolable Kansas tax scheme.

Oddly, there's not much mention of the $13.4 billion dollar budget. Which could be cut by a mere five percent to save that $707 million. It's a shame the Kansas state budget is so well-designed that they can't manage to cut five percent off of it within a year or so.

Oh, wait...

Yes, cutting taxes when you're in the red makes perfect sense.

If you flunked Math in grade school.

Not cutting expenses when you're in the red makes perfect sense.

If you flunked math in grade school.

I didn't say that they shouldn't cut expenses. It's just that when you're in the red, the last thing you want to do is cut your revenues.

But of course I shouldn't be surprised that folks like you can't do basic math.

Notabunny:born_yesterday: In any case, let these people vote themselves into farking oblivion; ignorant, shiat-eating morans.

Hoarseman: I'm not saying your scenario is impossible, but it will require more maturity than the average voter has shown thus far.

Unfortunately, there's a reason the book is entitled What's The Matter With Kansas

It's been a while since I've read it, but does that book end with the result that eventually we swing too far to the right and the moderates vote dem? See, Sebilius, and the state board of education the election after the evolution debacle. And Phill (two L) Kline going too far and Morrison being elected. I am naively hopeful that soon they'll go too far and the wealthy Johnson county moderates and the east side of Wichita will say enough and align with the democrats.

jayhawk88:I work for one of the universities here in-state. It's going to be hilarious to hear my co-workers biatch about Obama when they start announcing the massive funding cuts. And believe me, they absolutely will.

Be nice when they do; my dad means well.

/assuming you work at the big one there.//how someone who has a pHd in mathematics can buy trickle down is beyond me.///and don't get me started on his admiration for Palin

theorellior:cirby: Oddly enough, it's always the Democrats who start screaming about cutting those things, instead of cutting, oh, "arts programs" (which somehow always seem to give money to fifth-rate failed artists who are friends with one or another local politician, to teach poor kids how to do really bad art) or "beautification projects" (which, by random chance, always seem to happen right in front of the homes of local or state politicians, and are awarded to relatives of same).

It's not our fault you live in a shiatty state with no controls on how public funds are spent to keep the most egregious examples of public graft to a minimum.

I just saw that he lives in Orlando.

The governor of that state was accused (and maybe indicted) of Medicare fraud.

Mrtraveler01:cirby: It's funny - there's an article whining about the "budget shortfall." There's a bunch of you Farkers whining about those awful Tea Party people who messed with the inviolable Kansas tax scheme.

Oddly, there's not much mention of the $13.4 billion dollar budget. Which could be cut by a mere five percent to save that $707 million. It's a shame the Kansas state budget is so well-designed that they can't manage to cut five percent off of it within a year or so.

Oh, wait...

Yes, cutting taxes when you're in the red makes perfect sense.

If you flunked Math in grade school.

He got an A+ in Conservative Math, but inexplicably his GPA went down. You can't explain that!

Pretty terrible, and set to get worse now that the GOP took back the state senate in the election. The recalls bought us a summer of much-needed peace, neutering the GOP's plan to extend an extraordinary session and continue their rampage, but Walker will be back looking for blood now. We can fully expect to drop back to 49th-50th place in job creation under their guidance.

/thankfully I'm getting out//WI can burn for all I care, at this point

nekom:vpb: You mean cutting your income doesn't help you pay bills? Sounds like socialisms!

Well, to be fair there is a case to be made for a counter-intuitive "lowering taxes increases revenue" argument. At least, to some degree. After all, with a 100% or 0% tax rate, your revenues would be quite low. I would think that finding that "sweet spot" for the highest revenue ought to be the goal, though finding that is probably near impossible.

Sounds like the Tea Party needs to play some Sim City and get back to us.

Mrtraveler01:Noam Chimpsky: Mrtraveler01: cirby: It's funny - there's an article whining about the "budget shortfall." There's a bunch of you Farkers whining about those awful Tea Party people who messed with the inviolable Kansas tax scheme.

Oddly, there's not much mention of the $13.4 billion dollar budget. Which could be cut by a mere five percent to save that $707 million. It's a shame the Kansas state budget is so well-designed that they can't manage to cut five percent off of it within a year or so.

Oh, wait...

Yes, cutting taxes when you're in the red makes perfect sense.

If you flunked Math in grade school.

Not cutting expenses when you're in the red makes perfect sense.

If you flunked math in grade school.

I didn't say that they shouldn't cut expenses. It's just that when you're in the red, the last thing you want to do is cut your revenues.

But of course I shouldn't be surprised that folks like you can't do basic math.

I know that when I'm having trouble paying all my bills, the first thing I do is quit my job or, at the very least, offer to take fewer hours or a lesser hourly wage.

nekom:vpb: You mean cutting your income doesn't help you pay bills? Sounds like socialisms!

Well, to be fair there is a case to be made for a counter-intuitive "lowering taxes increases revenue" argument. At least, to some degree. After all, with a 100% or 0% tax rate, your revenues would be quite low. I would think that finding that "sweet spot" for the highest revenue ought to be the goal, though finding that is probably near impossible.

Noam Chimpsky:jso2897: Noam Chimpsky: The fallacy is the assertion by the commie editorialist that the state of Kansas has a responsibility to pay for all these commie dreams of his. Kansas needs to purge it's remaining liberals and it will be a utopia.

Yeah. That's probably not how this is going to shake out.

You want Kansans to be taxed to finance the parasitic existence of those who can't or won't finance their own existence. Cutting taxes effectively chokes off and purges these parasites and improves the quality of the state. Obama gets revenge against conservatives at the federal level and conservatives need to get revenge against the parasite left where they can, and that is at the state level in these liberal states.

A simple "I was wrong about everything and the american public left my failed ideology behind this election, I am sorry" is all you really needed to say.

Noam Chimpsky:You want Kansans to be taxed to finance the parasitic existence of those who can't or won't finance their own existence. Cutting taxes effectively chokes off and purges these parasites and improves the quality of the state. Obama gets revenge against conservatives at the federal level and conservatives need to get revenge against the parasite left where they can, and that is at the state level in these liberal states.

It does when you're trying to get people to start doing business in your state, and you cut the budget accordingly. As I noted above, they only need a five percent cut in spending to balance the budget. If you're too dumb to find five percent of a state budget to cut, you need to stay out of politics entirely.

Note, for a counterexample, California. They're in a deep fiscal (read: spending) hole, they just voted (again) to raise the hell out of taxes, and a lot of businesses just decided to either bail out of California entirely or cut back on any expansion plans.

theorellior:It's not our fault you live in a shiatty state with no controls on how public funds are spent to keep the most egregious examples of public graft to a minimum.

You live in MASSACHUSETTS. Are you insane? They had a "rainy day fund" they were supposed to pay $100 million into this year - but instead took out $400 million, and still fell way short of balancing the budget - which increased by 3% this year.

kth://how someone who has a pHd in mathematics can buy trickle down is beyond me.///and don't get me started on his admiration for Palin

Nearly two decades in advanced tech forums heavily frequented by well educated and accomplished contributors taught me authority and credentials usually trump reasoning in the short run, and if reasoning wins in the long run it was their idea all along. Education doesn't change human nature and a lifetime in rigid academia appears to reinforce certain negative aspects.

cirby:It does when you're trying to get people to start doing business in your state, and you cut the budget accordingly. As I noted above, they only need a five percent cut in spending to balance the budget. If you're too dumb to find five percent of a state budget to cut, you need to stay out of politics entirely.

It might bring more business to the state, but it won't be enough to make up for the shortfall as a result of the tax cut.

At best, you'll end up where you started and at worst, you'll be deeper in the red and have to cut spending even more than you probably needed to (which is the real intent of conservatives)/

People throw around tax cuts like it's a panacea to everything.

I've got to say this once and for all Tax cuts WILL NOT GET YOU OUT OF A DEFICIT!!!

cirby:You live in MASSACHUSETTS. Are you insane? They had a "rainy day fund" they were supposed to pay $100 million into this year - but instead took out $400 million, and still fell way short of balancing the budget - which increased by 3% this year.

There are many problems with Massachusetts, but public art funds misallocation isn't one of them. Please try to stay on topic. Besides, the reason the budget here is farked is directly related to the policies of Governor Romney, who "lowered" taxes while kicking the budgeting can down the road to a time when he wouldn't be in office. This is the exact reason why I take anything right-wing supply-side dumbfarks say about government financing with a good-size boulder of salt.

Mrtraveler01:Noam Chimpsky: You want Kansans to be taxed to finance the parasitic existence of those who can't or won't finance their own existence. Cutting taxes effectively chokes off and purges these parasites and improves the quality of the state. Obama gets revenge against conservatives at the federal level and conservatives need to get revenge against the parasite left where they can, and that is at the state level in these liberal states.

This reminds me too much of Hotel Rwanda.

Yep.In Rwanda, the Tutsis were stereotyped as inherent liars, thieves, and killers. Kangura also depicted the Tutsis as biologically distinct from the Hutus and as being consumed by malice and wickedness. Radio Télévision Libra Mille-Collines (RTLMC), the local media outlet, joined in the propaganda effort, accusing the Tutsis of being plotters and parasites, and using the Tutsis'

Oddly enough, it's always the Democrats who start screaming about cutting those things, instead of cutting, oh, "arts programs" (which somehow always seem to give money to fifth-rate failed artists who are friends with one or another local politician, to teach poor kids how to do really bad art) or "beautification projects" (which, by random chance, always seem to happen right in front of the homes of local or state politicians, and are awarded to relatives of same).

That happened in my own home town this year. Budget cuts? The Democrat politicians started right in with "we have to cut POLICE AND FIRE budgets," when most folks were saying "why not cut the $200 million plus you want to spend on the performing arts center that nobody really asked for?"

That said, you can cut huge amounts of waste out of pretty much any local or state budget without touching the meat of the things you list - yes, even Medicare and Medicaid. There is, basically, no real fraud investigation going on in Medicare - criminals have to pretty much jump up and down holding a sign that says "CROOK" just to get someone's attention.

Were you raped by a fact and now just can't stand to be around them any more?

How bad is it in say, Manhattan? I just interviewed for grad school there. It's a great program, and the professor is amazing, but if it's really that bad....that might be a point in deciding whether or not to go. I can go back in the closet for a few years, and I can stay on my parents' insurance if the KSU one doesn't cover birth control, but if it's that bad in terms of politics/people....

\Honest opinions, please?\\Going without birth control isn't an option - my endocrine system doesn't churn out enough progesterone, so I need it in pill form every day or I could wind up in the ER (if I was lucky).\\\ Great program, nice people in the department, but if everyone else is crazy...idk

PanicMan:The laffer curve is a stupid meaningless concept that should never be used in any real world situation. There's just too many other factors you need to take into account.

Art Laffer is still pushing his curve. One of the people in my carpool attended speaking event of his last week. She said most were sent by their employers, and most spent their coffee breaks rolling their eyes and sighing.

nekom:vpb: You mean cutting your income doesn't help you pay bills? Sounds like socialisms!

Well, to be fair there is a case to be made for a counter-intuitive "lowering taxes increases revenue" argument. At least, to some degree. After all, with a 100% or 0% tax rate, your revenues would be quite low. I would think that finding that "sweet spot" for the highest revenue ought to be the goal, though finding that is probably near impossible.

In theory a 100% tax rate could generate revenue. If the government provides everything you need to live and people choose to work then it gets revenue. Of course, communism is a huge failure.

jayhawk88:Oh no it's worse than that, I'm in Wichita not Lawrence. Sarah Palin shows up at a Dillon's here in Andover on a Tuesday morning and 5,000 people are camping out overnight for it

Oddly enough, somewhere in the back of my brain must have remembered that from basketball threads, so I was thinking Wichita.

madanimalscientist: How bad is it in say, Manhattan? I just interviewed for grad school there. It's a great program, and the professor is amazing, but if it's really that bad....that might be a point in deciding whether or not to go. I can go back in the closet for a few years, and I can stay on my parents' insurance if the KSU one doesn't cover birth control, but if it's that bad in terms of politics/people....

\Honest opinions, please?\\Going without birth control isn't an option - my endocrine system doesn't churn out enough progesterone, so I need it in pill form every day or I could wind up in the ER (if I was lucky).\\\ Great program, nice people in the department, but if everyone else is crazy...idk

I went to KU, but I have a lot of friends who went to K-State. It's not a bad place, it isn't a liberal as Lawrence, but it's still a college town. My friends call it "Manhappiness." There are some lovely areas in north central Kansas and you're only an hour and a half from KC. I don't see a huge risk of the regents curtailing access to birth control.

kth:jayhawk88:Oh no it's worse than that, I'm in Wichita not Lawrence. Sarah Palin shows up at a Dillon's here in Andover on a Tuesday morning and 5,000 people are camping out overnight for it

Oddly enough, somewhere in the back of my brain must have remembered that from basketball threads, so I was thinking Wichita.

madanimalscientist: How bad is it in say, Manhattan? I just interviewed for grad school there. It's a great program, and the professor is amazing, but if it's really that bad....that might be a point in deciding whether or not to go. I can go back in the closet for a few years, and I can stay on my parents' insurance if the KSU one doesn't cover birth control, but if it's that bad in terms of politics/people....

\Honest opinions, please?\\Going without birth control isn't an option - my endocrine system doesn't churn out enough progesterone, so I need it in pill form every day or I could wind up in the ER (if I was lucky).\\\ Great program, nice people in the department, but if everyone else is crazy...idk

I went to KU, but I have a lot of friends who went to K-State. It's not a bad place, it isn't a liberal as Lawrence, but it's still a college town. My friends call it "Manhappiness." There are some lovely areas in north central Kansas and you're only an hour and a half from KC. I don't see a huge risk of the regents curtailing access to birth control.

The only concern I have is that when this fiscal plan blows up in Kansas's face, education will be one of the first things targeted as the KS GOP tries to cover their ass from failure.

It does when you're trying to get people to start doing business in your state, and you cut the budget accordingly. As I noted above, they only need a five percent cut in spending to balance the budget. If you're too dumb to find five percent of a state budget to cut, you need to stay out of politics entirely.

Note, for a counterexample, California. They're in a deep fiscal (read: spending) hole, they just voted (again) to raise the hell out of taxes, and a lot of businesses just decided to either bail out of California entirely or cut back on any expansion plans.

Except there is zero evidence that decreasing taxes will increase revenue. And every remotely independent group has came to the same conclusion. Trickle down and supply side economics are jokes.

FlashHarry:wasn't there some talk about cutting state taxes on all incomes above $200,000 to zero? or did i dream it? in any case - i can't tell anymore between satire and reality. the right wing is just that farking crazy.

I know they wanted to remove income taxes for professional positions, but of course not the people that support those positions. Cuz those jerb creaturs need money to create jerbs. For example, they wanted to remove income tax from lawyers, but not paralegals, doctors, but not nurses or CNAs, engineers, but not technicians or technical writers.

madanimalscientist:How bad is it in say, Manhattan? I just interviewed for grad school there. It's a great program, and the professor is amazing, but if it's really that bad....that might be a point in deciding whether or not to go. I can go back in the closet for a few years, and I can stay on my parents' insurance if the KSU one doesn't cover birth control, but if it's that bad in terms of politics/people....

\Honest opinions, please?\\Going without birth control isn't an option - my endocrine system doesn't churn out enough progesterone, so I need it in pill form every day or I could wind up in the ER (if I was lucky).\\\ Great program, nice people in the department, but if everyone else is crazy...idk

It seems like it takes a lot of effort to deny reality, much as it takes a lot of energy to hold a system out of equilibrium.

I expect that states acting rationally will prosper, while states governed using backwater strategies like Tea Party conservatism will continue to decline, until it gets bad enough that the electorate votes them out. I'm suppose that could takes years, however, and by that time the damage inflicted would be severe.

madanimalscientist:How bad is it in say, Manhattan? I just interviewed for grad school there. It's a great program, and the professor is amazing, but if it's really that bad....that might be a point in deciding whether or not to go. I can go back in the closet for a few years, and I can stay on my parents' insurance if the KSU one doesn't cover birth control, but if it's that bad in terms of politics/people....

\Honest opinions, please?\\Going without birth control isn't an option - my endocrine system doesn't churn out enough progesterone, so I need it in pill form every day or I could wind up in the ER (if I was lucky).\\\ Great program, nice people in the department, but if everyone else is crazy...idk

I got my MFA in Wichita a few years ago. I finished up right before Brownback was elected gov. For the most part I was able to get/do everything I needed and didn't run into much trouble with the locals, but I'm a guy.

The biggest thing I'd worry about if I were starting grad school there now would be whether my assistantship (if you're getting one) would stay funded all the way to the end. My department was already struggling when I got there. If you're going into the sciences you might be better off, since most schools tend to prioritize the sciences and de-prioritize the humanities when there are budget problems. By all accounts, it sounds like Kansas is doing its very damnedest to find out the exact location of rock bottom, so things will probably keep getting worse for a while.

Funding aside, the university usually generates a bubble of less-conservativism in which you can be comfortable, make like-minded friends, and so on.

Noam Chimpsky:The fallacy is the assertion by the commie editorialist that the state of Kansas has a responsibility to pay for all these commie dreams of his. Kansas needs to purge it's remaining liberals and it will be a utopia.

Vodka Zombie:So, what you're saying is that the Teabaggers have no idea what they're doing?

Quelle surprise!

Maybe you should vote with your own damn brains instead of what some gibbering moron on TV or AM radio tells you, eh?

They know exactly what they are doing. They are attempting to force a reduction in the government (social programs only). Make it inefficient, underfund it, force deficit by tax cuts, convince people that tax cuts will fix it, tada!

Don't Troll Me Bro!:I know they wanted to remove income taxes for professional positions, but of course not the people that support those positions. Cuz those jerb creaturs need money to create jerbs. For example, they wanted to remove income tax from lawyers, but not paralegals, doctors, but not nurses or CNAs, engineers, but not technicians or technical writers.

nekom:vpb: You mean cutting your income doesn't help you pay bills? Sounds like socialisms!

Well, to be fair there is a case to be made for a counter-intuitive "lowering taxes increases revenue" argument. At least, to some degree. After all, with a 100% or 0% tax rate, your revenues would be quite low. I would think that finding that "sweet spot" for the highest revenue ought to be the goal, though finding that is probably near impossible.

sdd2000:wingnut396: They left off one thing that Kansas can still do to close the budget gap. Sell off State owned assets. There is quite a bit they can do:

1. Sell the prisons to for profit companies. The inmates can pay for the operation of the prison by working at whatever jobs their corporate owners can make money with them doing. This strikes me as a way to also solve the migrant labor problem as low risk prisoners can be used to pick crops at harvest. I would imagine that arrests for short time offenses would go up right before harvest time.

2. Sell the roads and bridges, tolls everywhere. You can drive like 90MPH in Texas now on that freedom loving toll road.

3. Sell the State offices and buildings. Right now there are too many State employees as it is. There is no need to all that office space. Sell it off, especially after you fire most of the State workers, and lease back smaller offices from the corporations that now own the property.

4. Sell of the State parks and recreation areas to private recreation and resort companies. People that can't afford to pay an entrance fee to a nice lake or park should be working more anyway.

5. Sell off the schools, use whatever Federal dollars come in for education to pay for a voucher. The free market and churches will provide stuff like classroom VCRs for learnin' your young ones.

I'm surprised I could think of many ways to solve the Kansas budget crisis and this article only thinks that a useless rainy day fund is the only way they are going to do it.

They can also cut back on fire services and police and go the Colorado Springs route.Link

This is the new faith based budgeting system. (We have faith that them damn socalizt will bail us out)

Sending firemen to die to protect houses is stupid.

If people don't want their house to burn down, chop down the freaking trees and cut the grass.

Mrtraveler01:People throw around tax cuts like it's a panacea to everything.

I've got to say this once and for all Tax cuts WILL NOT GET YOU OUT OF A DEFICIT!!!

I am afraid that you will need to repeat that ad naseum to be heard above the DERP. We need to keep making that point until even FOX news recognizes that tax cuts only spur economic growth in very limited circumstances. (Megan Kelly's question to Karl Rove about his republican math makes me believe that it is possible to reach part of the FOX crowd.)

cirby:Note, for a counterexample, California. They're in a deep fiscal (read: spending) hole, they just voted (again) to raise the hell out of taxes, and a lot of businesses just decided to either bail out of California entirely or cut back on any expansion plans.

Evidence that businesses are leaving? All I can find is people claiming that businesses are leaving, but I can't find evidence of any businesses that have actually left. I certainly don't see it around town.

Mrtraveler01:The only concern I have is that when this fiscal plan blows up in Kansas's face, education will be one of the first things targeted as the KS GOP tries to cover their ass from failure.

Well, here's the thing. Kansas was already in the caboose as far as K-12 education. These reforms should place them dead last. So no kids going to Kansas public schools (or, obviously, most parochial schools) will have test scores remotely high enough to get into KU or KSU.

The universities are perfectly fine - they'll continue to be funded by their athletic department revenue. But they'll become nothing more than a temporary destination. Out-of-state students will attend school, and then leave Kansas before the ink on their sheepskins has dried. There will be no industries in Kansas that will require a college education - faith healers and clergy will replace doctors and teachers. Kansas-born youth, meanwhile, will continue to flock to trailer parks with five children each before they turn 21.

That's what pisses me off the most. It's not the kids' fault, but they'll suffer the most. Libertarianism should never trump humanitarianism, no matter what your economic beliefs tell you. If anyone has the ability to leave Kansas now for saner pastures, I'd suggest doing it as soon as you can.

Mrtraveler01:Bendal: McCrory is talking about how the government is "broken" and he's bringing a businessman's viewpoint to the state

MO dodged that bullet this election.

Luckily he was very incompetent in running a campaign as well as the fact that the incumbent is well like here due to his moderate views.

What I would like to know is when in the history of politics has business success = success in politics? The only businessman I can think of is Berlesconi, and we all know what kind of job he did with Italy.

I was amazed that, despite the Lt. Gov, MO is pretty much run by solid blue folk. Yet we go Red in federal. Seriously -- WTF?

Although, living in KCMO, I do often hit the stateline and just point and laugh...because it's warrented.

mgshamster:cirby: Note, for a counterexample, California. They're in a deep fiscal (read: spending) hole, they just voted (again) to raise the hell out of taxes, and a lot of businesses just decided to either bail out of California entirely or cut back on any expansion plans.

Evidence that businesses are leaving? All I can find is people claiming that businesses are leaving, but I can't find evidence of any businesses that have actually left. I certainly don't see it around town.

And here's counter-evidence that millionaires are not leaving: Link

The whole imminent collapse of California is RW folklore. I don't dispute it though - I would rather the sort of people who buy into it avoid California like the plague.

Lochsteppe:madanimalscientist: How bad is it in say, Manhattan? I just interviewed for grad school there. It's a great program, and the professor is amazing, but if it's really that bad....that might be a point in deciding whether or not to go. I can go back in the closet for a few years, and I can stay on my parents' insurance if the KSU one doesn't cover birth control, but if it's that bad in terms of politics/people....

\Honest opinions, please?\\Going without birth control isn't an option - my endocrine system doesn't churn out enough progesterone, so I need it in pill form every day or I could wind up in the ER (if I was lucky).\\\ Great program, nice people in the department, but if everyone else is crazy...idk

I got my MFA in Wichita a few years ago. I finished up right before Brownback was elected gov. For the most part I was able to get/do everything I needed and didn't run into much trouble with the locals, but I'm a guy.

The biggest thing I'd worry about if I were starting grad school there now would be whether my assistantship (if you're getting one) would stay funded all the way to the end. My department was already struggling when I got there. If you're going into the sciences you might be better off, since most schools tend to prioritize the sciences and de-prioritize the humanities when there are budget problems. By all accounts, it sounds like Kansas is doing its very damnedest to find out the exact location of rock bottom, so things will probably keep getting worse for a while.

Funding aside, the university usually generates a bubble of less-conservativism in which you can be comfortable, make like-minded friends, and so on.

I'm in animal science, specifically feedlot cattle research, so I think my assistantship (they don't let you in without one) is fairly safe, if I get in. I look relatively white, can keep religion/politics to myself, and can pass for straight, and I've got a good friend in KC, so I hopefully should be okay (and the animal science department is getting more and more women in it, so maybe less sexism, farmers notwithstanding).

It's a good program, the tuition is cheaper than other schools I've looked at, and I'd get the chance to travel a lot. If Manhattan is okay, as people have said, that reassures me somewhat. Besides, not like I plan on living in Kansas long-term. I'm a city kid at heart.

jso2897:mgshamster: cirby: Note, for a counterexample, California. They're in a deep fiscal (read: spending) hole, they just voted (again) to raise the hell out of taxes, and a lot of businesses just decided to either bail out of California entirely or cut back on any expansion plans.

Evidence that businesses are leaving? All I can find is people claiming that businesses are leaving, but I can't find evidence of any businesses that have actually left. I certainly don't see it around town.

And here's counter-evidence that millionaires are not leaving: Link

The whole imminent collapse of California is RW folklore. I don't dispute it though - I would rather the sort of people who buy into it avoid California like the plague.

Places like LA and San Francisco are doing fine.

Ironically, the places in California that are worst off happen to be areas that tend to vote Republican (ie: Central Valley).

Monkeyhouse Zendo:cirby: Oddly, there's not much mention of the $13.4 billion dollar budget. Which could be cut by a mere five percent to save that $707 million. It's a shame the Kansas state budget is so well-designed that they can't manage to cut five percent off of it within a year or so

Oh they'll find someplace to cut that $707M. They'll find it in places like medicaid, education, child protective services, welfare, and university funding. Next year they'll be faced with a similar situation and so will go on another round of cuts and repeat this annually until the state is an ignorant, impoverished backwater that subsists on federal farm subsidies.

ebamit:As a Kansan, I can say without question that these tax cuts benefit me personally. It's like they looked at my situation (multiple corps, partnership, and rental-property income) and devised a plan that ensured I will pay absolutely no state income tax. None. Zip. Nada.

W-2 wage earners? They continue to pay. And now, thanks to our brilliant governor, they will pay a much higher percentage of the state's revenue than before. This, my friends, is a perfect example of a regressive tax. Hurting the little people is OK as long as the rich benefit. Let them eat cake!

At first, I thought this plan was just an example of how stupid these small men are. I thought that they were living in a fantasy world thinking that this plan will attract new businesses into the state. Obviously, no business owner is going to relocate to Kansas simply because the owner will pay no state income tax. Anyone who believes this myth exposes just how little they understand about the dynamics of owning a business.

Upon reflection, I realized they can't possibly be this stupid. They don't suffer from ignorance; instead, they are simply bad people. Let's face it: W-2 wage earners don't donate to Republican campaigns. High earners do. Screw the W-2 earners!

From their point of view, ruining a once great place to live is simply a cost of ensuring reelection. It's nothing more, nothing less. Thus, this is not a "tax plan" or "business development program". It's just a cynical plan to ensure reelection.

that sounds familiar.. so your the one who came into the comments section on that article and started talking all this rational reasonableness. Shame on you. your supposed to help make the rubes spit and froth. but seriously, your spot on. ive been refreshing those comments all morning.. i think its turned into a half way interesting reasonable discussion.

Dansker:Noam Chimpsky: The fallacy is the assertion by the commie editorialist that the state of Kansas has a responsibility to pay for all these commie dreams of his. Kansas needs to purge it's remaining liberals and it will be a utopia.

Mrtraveler01:jso2897: mgshamster: cirby: Note, for a counterexample, California. They're in a deep fiscal (read: spending) hole, they just voted (again) to raise the hell out of taxes, and a lot of businesses just decided to either bail out of California entirely or cut back on any expansion plans.

Evidence that businesses are leaving? All I can find is people claiming that businesses are leaving, but I can't find evidence of any businesses that have actually left. I certainly don't see it around town.

And here's counter-evidence that millionaires are not leaving: Link

The whole imminent collapse of California is RW folklore. I don't dispute it though - I would rather the sort of people who buy into it avoid California like the plague.

Places like LA and San Francisco are doing fine.

Ironically, the places in California that are worst off happen to be areas that tend to vote Republican (ie: Central Valley).

BeatrixK:I was amazed that, despite the Lt. Gov, MO is pretty much run by solid blue folk. Yet we go Red in federal. Seriously -- WTF?

Missouri Democrats have a lot more Missouruh in them than Missouri. When compared to the national party they're basically very moderate Republicans (when there was such a thing). Think Northeast or West Coast Republicans. They were also helped by being opposed by a bunch of raving dipshiat tea baggers. Missouri is still purple enough that that message doesn't really get a lot of momentum on a state-wide level.

Purely anecdotal as well, but Obama's race doesn't do him any favors here either from what I've seen and heard.

nekom:vpb: You mean cutting your income doesn't help you pay bills? Sounds like socialisms!

Well, to be fair there is a case to be made for a counter-intuitive "lowering taxes increases revenue" argument. At least, to some degree. After all, with a 100% or 0% tax rate, your revenues would be quite low. I would think that finding that "sweet spot" for the highest revenue ought to be the goal, though finding that is probably near impossible.

There's a case to be made in that it is a line of logic you can follow which leads from evidence to conclusion, however, it is a demonstrably wrong conclusion to make that cutting taxes across the board is a good idea in this sort of economic landscape.

Shrugging Atlas:They were also helped by being opposed by a bunch of raving dipshiat tea baggers.

You mean like Ed Martin for Attorney General? The one who seemed to have no farking clue what he was going to do once he repealed Obamacare? Because that's the only thing his damn ads kept talking about.

CynicalLA:Mrtraveler01: Noam Chimpsky: You want Kansans to be taxed to finance the parasitic existence of those who can't or won't finance their own existence. Cutting taxes effectively chokes off and purges these parasites and improves the quality of the state. Obama gets revenge against conservatives at the federal level and conservatives need to get revenge against the parasite left where they can, and that is at the state level in these liberal states.

This reminds me too much of Hotel Rwanda.

Yep.In Rwanda, the Tutsis were stereotyped as inherent liars, thieves, and killers. Kangura also depicted the Tutsis as biologically distinct from the Hutus and as being consumed by malice and wickedness. Radio Télévision Libra Mille-Collines (RTLMC), the local media outlet, joined in the propaganda effort, accusing the Tutsis of being plotters and parasites, and using the Tutsis'

If the Tusis were living off the Hutus the way liberals are living off our tax dollars, then they were parasites. I doubt that's the case so your analogy doesn't hold, but I'd be all for the Hutus cutting taxes for the purpose of making the Tutsis leave their nation, if it was the case.

And just because liberals are inherent liars, thieves, parasites and perverts doesn't mean the next assertion of a group being these things is a true assertion.

Noam Chimpsky:CynicalLA: Mrtraveler01: Noam Chimpsky: You want Kansans to be taxed to finance the parasitic existence of those who can't or won't finance their own existence. Cutting taxes effectively chokes off and purges these parasites and improves the quality of the state. Obama gets revenge against conservatives at the federal level and conservatives need to get revenge against the parasite left where they can, and that is at the state level in these liberal states.

This reminds me too much of Hotel Rwanda.

Yep.In Rwanda, the Tutsis were stereotyped as inherent liars, thieves, and killers. Kangura also depicted the Tutsis as biologically distinct from the Hutus and as being consumed by malice and wickedness. Radio Télévision Libra Mille-Collines (RTLMC), the local media outlet, joined in the propaganda effort, accusing the Tutsis of being plotters and parasites, and using the Tutsis'

If the Tusis were living off the Hutus the way liberals are living off our tax dollars, then they were parasites. I doubt that's the case so your analogy doesn't hold, but I'd be all for the Hutus cutting taxes for the purpose of making the Tutsis leave their nation, if it was the case.

And just because liberals are inherent liars, thieves, parasites and perverts doesn't mean the next assertion of a group being these things is a true assertion.

jso2897:Noam Chimpsky: CynicalLA: Mrtraveler01: Noam Chimpsky: You want Kansans to be taxed to finance the parasitic existence of those who can't or won't finance their own existence. Cutting taxes effectively chokes off and purges these parasites and improves the quality of the state. Obama gets revenge against conservatives at the federal level and conservatives need to get revenge against the parasite left where they can, and that is at the state level in these liberal states.

This reminds me too much of Hotel Rwanda.

Yep.In Rwanda, the Tutsis were stereotyped as inherent liars, thieves, and killers. Kangura also depicted the Tutsis as biologically distinct from the Hutus and as being consumed by malice and wickedness. Radio Télévision Libra Mille-Collines (RTLMC), the local media outlet, joined in the propaganda effort, accusing the Tutsis of being plotters and parasites, and using the Tutsis'

If the Tusis were living off the Hutus the way liberals are living off our tax dollars, then they were parasites. I doubt that's the case so your analogy doesn't hold, but I'd be all for the Hutus cutting taxes for the purpose of making the Tutsis leave their nation, if it was the case.

And just because liberals are inherent liars, thieves, parasites and perverts doesn't mean the next assertion of a group being these things is a true assertion.

Monkeyhouse Zendo:cirby: Oddly, there's not much mention of the $13.4 billion dollar budget. Which could be cut by a mere five percent to save that $707 million. It's a shame the Kansas state budget is so well-designed that they can't manage to cut five percent off of it within a year or so

Oh they'll find someplace to cut that $707M. They'll find it in places like medicaid, education, child protective services, welfare, and university funding. Next year they'll be faced with a similar situation and so will go on another round of cuts and repeat this annually until the state is an ignorant, impoverished backwater that subsists on federal farm subsidies.

As a Kansas resident I can say the budget has already been slashed and slashed again. It has been bad and is just going to get worse. The wait at the DMV can EASILY be over 6 hours. I have a friend (quadriplegic) who can find caregivers any longer because the state wont pay a living wage. I love my little Johnson County suburb, but we might have to move.

Noam Chimpsky:jso2897: Noam Chimpsky: CynicalLA: Mrtraveler01: Noam Chimpsky: You want Kansans to be taxed to finance the parasitic existence of those who can't or won't finance their own existence. Cutting taxes effectively chokes off and purges these parasites and improves the quality of the state. Obama gets revenge against conservatives at the federal level and conservatives need to get revenge against the parasite left where they can, and that is at the state level in these liberal states.

This reminds me too much of Hotel Rwanda.

Yep.In Rwanda, the Tutsis were stereotyped as inherent liars, thieves, and killers. Kangura also depicted the Tutsis as biologically distinct from the Hutus and as being consumed by malice and wickedness. Radio Télévision Libra Mille-Collines (RTLMC), the local media outlet, joined in the propaganda effort, accusing the Tutsis of being plotters and parasites, and using the Tutsis'

If the Tusis were living off the Hutus the way liberals are living off our tax dollars, then they were parasites. I doubt that's the case so your analogy doesn't hold, but I'd be all for the Hutus cutting taxes for the purpose of making the Tutsis leave their nation, if it was the case.

And just because liberals are inherent liars, thieves, parasites and perverts doesn't mean the next assertion of a group being these things is a true assertion.

Somebody needs a hug.

Here, let me move my wallet to my front pocket.

The Moon Cannot Be Stolen

Ryokan, a Zen master, lived the simplest kind of life in a little hut at the foot of a mountain. One evening a thief visited the hut only to discover there was nothing to steal.

Ryokan returned and caught him. "You have come a long way to visit me," he told the prowler, "and you should not return empty-handed. Please take my clothes as a gift."

The thief was bewildered. He took the clothes and slunk away.

Ryoken sat naked, watching the moon. "Poor fellow," he mused, "I wish I could have given him this beautiful moon."

You think Kansas is bad? Try the Liberal Party run state of New South Wales in Australia.

Down here Liberals are right wing (go figure). Right now we are in the middle of savage job and spending cuts. Our Premier (like your state Governors) has vowed that the cuts will continue, even though an independent accounting body has found a BILLION extra dollars that the state government didn't know it had.

///And STILL they are pushing ahead in a no-tender process to build a second casino in Sydney that nobody wants.

LikeALeafOnTheWind:ebamit: As a Kansan, I can say without question that these tax cuts benefit me personally. It's like they looked at my situation (multiple corps, partnership, and rental-property income) and devised a plan that ensured I will pay absolutely no state income tax. None. Zip. Nada.

W-2 wage earners? They continue to pay. And now, thanks to our brilliant governor, they will pay a much higher percentage of the state's revenue than before. This, my friends, is a perfect example of a regressive tax. Hurting the little people is OK as long as the rich benefit. Let them eat cake!

At first, I thought this plan was just an example of how stupid these small men are. I thought that they were living in a fantasy world thinking that this plan will attract new businesses into the state. Obviously, no business owner is going to relocate to Kansas simply because the owner will pay no state income tax. Anyone who believes this myth exposes just how little they understand about the dynamics of owning a business.

Upon reflection, I realized they can't possibly be this stupid. They don't suffer from ignorance; instead, they are simply bad people. Let's face it: W-2 wage earners don't donate to Republican campaigns. High earners do. Screw the W-2 earners!

From their point of view, ruining a once great place to live is simply a cost of ensuring reelection. It's nothing more, nothing less. Thus, this is not a "tax plan" or "business development program". It's just a cynical plan to ensure reelection.

that sounds familiar.. so your the one who came into the comments section on that article and started talking all this rational reasonableness. Shame on you. your supposed to help make the rubes spit and froth. but seriously, your spot on. ive been refreshing those comments all morning.. i think its turned into a half way interesting reasonable discussion.

Guilty as charged. Rational and reasonable are rarely seen on the KC Star boards, so I'll take that as a compliment!

We have to suffer through major embarrassments like our Board of Education and Brownback...I have to sit helplessly as the Koch bros. primary the hell out of any moderate republican candidate...Then watch them roll to victory based on the (R) next to their name...

My beloved state is becoming the Tea Party dream - a place where a lack of basic services, government-licensed privatization of public property and regressive social polices make for a "job creator" paradise of low taxes and regulations...

You know what's funny - conservatives like to blame liberalism (or more generally a secular society) for a decline in "traditional values" but their policies hurt small cities and towns (bastions of more conservative ideas) by cutting public education and blocking access to quality healthcare.

The result is a under-educated, under-employable population that will, in my opinion, be much more likely to experience high-divorce rates, teen pregnancy and drug use.

/I know, I talked about it anyway...

Pfft at least you still have your far right religious doctrine as a guiding light

Vodka Zombie:So, what you're saying is that the Teabaggers have no idea what they're doing?

I'd say that a small minority of them understand exactly what they're doing.

They're trying to destroy American's faith in the liberal government implemented by the founding fathers and replace it with a reactionary, authoritarian, dominionist form of government that they want to have instead.

The best way that the Tea Party has to destroy the American Constitution and destroy the current government is from within. By making the government broke, incompetent, and unresponsive to the needs of the wider population, eventually citizens will get fed up and throw the government out. When that happens, they'll implement the dream of the American Taliban.

Down here Liberals are right wing (go figure). Right now we are in the middle of savage job and spending cuts. Our Premier (like your state Governors) has vowed that the cuts will continue, even though an independent accounting body has found a BILLION extra dollars that the state government didn't know it had.

///And STILL they are pushing ahead in a no-tender process to build a second casino in Sydney that nobody wants.

///Crazy!!!

I spent a great deal of time in Britain (Stevenage for the Championship) and when people would say complete shiat about what they were told about the terrible socialist Europe, I would have dozens of examples of why they were talking out of their arses.

Most Fox News viewers over here have no idea how much The Dirty Digger used his Aussie experiences to shape American right-wing press. Australian Liberal, British Conservative, US Republican ...they are the same right-wing message on three land masses. They even swap analysts and media personnel. Hell: how long was Maggie Thatcher's son working for the GOP in Texas and taking part in shenanigans in Equitorial Guinea?

The "Miracle" where the right-wing authoritarian government of Chile controlled a larger percentage of the economy than the socialist government that preceded it?

Is Chile under Pinochet the dream of the Tea Party for America? Do you dream of the right-wing authoritarian secret police throwing bound political dissenters out of helicopter doors far out over the ocean, while the politically connected elite grab as much of the economic power of the country as possible through regulation and law?

If you guys love that so much, why don't you just move to your right-wing authoritarian paradise now? Perhaps Iran or Saudi Arabia will welcome you with open arms.

Noam Chimpsky:jso2897: Noam Chimpsky: CynicalLA: Mrtraveler01: Noam Chimpsky: You want Kansans to be taxed to finance the parasitic existence of those who can't or won't finance their own existence. Cutting taxes effectively chokes off and purges these parasites and improves the quality of the state. Obama gets revenge against conservatives at the federal level and conservatives need to get revenge against the parasite left where they can, and that is at the state level in these liberal states.

This reminds me too much of Hotel Rwanda.

Yep.In Rwanda, the Tutsis were stereotyped as inherent liars, thieves, and killers. Kangura also depicted the Tutsis as biologically distinct from the Hutus and as being consumed by malice and wickedness. Radio Télévision Libra Mille-Collines (RTLMC), the local media outlet, joined in the propaganda effort, accusing the Tutsis of being plotters and parasites, and using the Tutsis'

If the Tusis were living off the Hutus the way liberals are living off our tax dollars, then they were parasites. I doubt that's the case so your analogy doesn't hold, but I'd be all for the Hutus cutting taxes for the purpose of making the Tutsis leave their nation, if it was the case.

And just because liberals are inherent liars, thieves, parasites and perverts doesn't mean the next assertion of a group being these things is a true assertion.

For years we heard a group of people claiming that the problem with America was the Tax and Spend Democrats. This group of people had their own cunning plan: spend and destroy America. Yes, they spent and kept the expenses off books, they spent and borrowed from foreign powers, they spent and went broke.

Noam Chimpsky:Dansker: Noam Chimpsky: The fallacy is the assertion by the commie editorialist that the state of Kansas has a responsibility to pay for all these commie dreams of his. Kansas needs to purge it's remaining liberals and it will be a utopia.

You know who else purged liberals to create a Utopia?

Yeah, Pinochet. It created the Chilean Miracle.

You mean the Military dictator indicted for human rights violations? The guy who had to be cremated to keep Chileans from vandalizing his tomb? That guy? Now I know you are a troll.

The Larch:Noam Chimpsky: Yeah, Pinochet. It created the Chilean Miracle.

The "Miracle" where the right-wing authoritarian government of Chile controlled a larger percentage of the economy than the socialist government that preceded it?

Is Chile under Pinochet the dream of the Tea Party for America? Do you dream of the right-wing authoritarian secret police throwing bound political dissenters out of helicopter doors far out over the ocean, while the politically connected elite grab as much of the economic power of the country as possible through regulation and law?

If you guys love that so much, why don't you just move to your right-wing authoritarian paradise now? Perhaps Iran or Saudi Arabia will welcome you with open arms.

It does when you're trying to get people to start doing business in your state, and you cut the budget accordingly. As I noted above, they only need a five percent cut in spending to balance the budget. If you're too dumb to find five percent of a state budget to cut, you need to stay out of politics entirely.

Note, for a counterexample, California. They're in a deep fiscal (read: spending) hole, they just voted (again) to raise the hell out of taxes, and a lot of businesses just decided to either bail out of California entirely or cut back on any expansion plans.

Except there is zero evidence that decreasing taxes will increase revenue. And every remotely independent group has came to the same conclusion. Trickle down and supply side economics are jokes.

NC is about to find out. One of the ideas McCrory has mentioned during his governor's campaign was that he intended to lower business taxes to encourage industry to locate here. He pointed out that the state has the highest gas taxes in the southeast as proof of the need to lower them, forgetting of course that NC also has the 2nd most miles of state-maintained roads in the country (behind Texas), and those roads don't pave themselves. His campaign sounded like Romney-light; get rid of "job killing regulations", lower corporate taxes, and reduce the size and scope of government.

Mrtraveler01:Shrugging Atlas: They were also helped by being opposed by a bunch of raving dipshiat tea baggers.

You mean like Ed Martin for Attorney General? The one who seemed to have no farking clue what he was going to do once he repealed Obamacare? Because that's the only thing his damn ads kept talking about.

God that guy was the worst. His radio ads sounded like they were put together by a freshman advertising class as well.

He has an ad up on an electronic billboard I pass on the way home about repealing Obamacare and I still can't stop my eyes from rolling every time I see it. I mean even setting aside the fact he can do basically nothing against Obamacare...THAT'S what you choose to run on?

nekom:Well, to be fair there is a case to be made for a counter-intuitive "lowering taxes increases revenue" argument. At least, to some degree. After all, with a 100% or 0% tax rate, your revenues would be quite low. I would think that finding that "sweet spot" for the highest revenue ought to be the goal, though finding that is probably near impossible.

Why would anyone want the point of highest revenue? That means you are getting an ROI approaching zero on your marginal taxes paid. You want to have the lowest rate with the highest derivative value that can satisfy your spending requirements. If those requirements exceed the inflection point, you need to rethink your governing philosophy.

Bendal:One of the ideas McCrory has mentioned during his governor's campaign was that he intended to lower business taxes to encourage industry to locate here

One of the crazier thoughts that goes through my heads sometimes is this:

What would happen if we set all taxes on business profits to zero, but taxed all short term and long capital gain disbursements to anyone in the world at the same rate as the American personal income tax rate? In other words, encourage all businesses to declare all profits in the United States. GE and Exxon and Apple can make all the money they want here, and they pay no taxes on it as long as it stays with them. But as soon as they money flows to shareholders anywhere in the world, it gets taxed as personal income.

Would that help business growth? Hurt business growth? Is it the type of thing that would cause strange rent seeking? I am not an economist, and I really don't know what would happen.

Also keep in mind that this is exactly the opposite of what Mitt Romney and Paul Ryan wanted to do... so I suspect you'd get no support from the vulture capitalists on this...

The Larch:Noam Chimpsky: If the Tusis were living off the Hutus the way liberals are living off our tax dollars, then they were parasites.

And if blue were yellow in the same way that stripes are polka dots, then I'd say that bumblebees eat potato.

Thank gawd.I read his post and thought I might be having a stroke.

Then I read yours.I feel better now, thank you.

/your username is a household staple. 15&11 yr. olds, so I think I'm doing it sorta right, this raising of the new crop of nerds//they're younger than the hipster thing, and they think it's silly. But you can't argue with cool mustaches. That's the part they said can stay.///potato sounds like the voice of glaDos (or however you farking spell it )in my head//therefore I must read the rest of the thread in Morgan Freeman's voice./back down ladder of slashies

TheMysticS:The Larch: Noam Chimpsky: If the Tusis were living off the Hutus the way liberals are living off our tax dollars, then they were parasites.

And if blue were yellow in the same way that stripes are polka dots, then I'd say that bumblebees eat potato.

Thank gawd.I read his post and thought I might be having a stroke.

Then I read yours.I feel better now, thank you.

/your username is a household staple. 15&11 yr. olds, so I think I'm doing it sorta right, this raising of the new crop of nerds//they're younger than the hipster thing, and they think it's silly. But you can't argue with cool mustaches. That's the part they said can stay.///potato sounds like the voice of glaDos (or however you farking spell it )in my head//therefore I must read the rest of the thread in Morgan Freeman's voice./back down ladder of slashies

Serious Black:Kittypie070: Let them suffer the consequences of their own stupidity.

Hey, I'm not stupid. I voted for people who didn't support his ridiculous tax cut plan. I talked up how idiotic it was to my friends and asked them to share the message. Hell, a not insignificant number of Republicans I talk to actually agree that it's ridiculous. Unfortunately, there are a bunch of farking lunatics out on the west end of the state who want the state to look like a Christian version of Pakistan.

The good news is that those idiots are on the verge of running out of water, so you can just wait them out and then move the Capitol to Lawrence.

Noam Chimpsky:Dansker: Noam Chimpsky: The fallacy is the assertion by the commie editorialist that the state of Kansas has a responsibility to pay for all these commie dreams of his. Kansas needs to purge it's remaining liberals and it will be a utopia.

We have to suffer through major embarrassments like our Board of Education and Brownback...I have to sit helplessly as the Koch bros. primary the hell out of any moderate republican candidate...Then watch them roll to victory based on the (R) next to their name...

My beloved state is becoming the Tea Party dream - a place where a lack of basic services, government-licensed privatization of public property and regressive social polices make for a "job creator" paradise of low taxes and regulations...

You know what's funny - conservatives like to blame liberalism (or more generally a secular society) for a decline in "traditional values" but their policies hurt small cities and towns (bastions of more conservative ideas) by cutting public education and blocking access to quality healthcare.

The result is a under-educated, under-employable population that will, in my opinion, be much more likely to experience high-divorce rates, teen pregnancy and drug use.

/I know, I talked about it anyway...

It needs to be repeated. At least the hyper-rich will be fine in their gated communities.

I will be the first in line to take out the guards at the gate. They will suffer too, even if I have to kill them all in the process.

If I were to interview someone for a job opening, and that person's cover letter said "This position is useless and stupid and all of the people who use our products are worthless parasites", would I be surprised if I chose to hire that person and he/she did an awful job?

balloot:If I were to interview someone for a job opening, and that person's cover letter said "This position is useless and stupid and all of the people who use our products are worthless parasites", would I be surprised if I chose to hire that person and he/she did an awful job?

If you're dumb enough to hire that person anyways, I wouldn't put being surprised at the failure past you.

Noam Chimpsky:jso2897: Noam Chimpsky: CynicalLA: Mrtraveler01: Noam Chimpsky: You want Kansans to be taxed to finance the parasitic existence of those who can't or won't finance their own existence. Cutting taxes effectively chokes off and purges these parasites and improves the quality of the state. Obama gets revenge against conservatives at the federal level and conservatives need to get revenge against the parasite left where they can, and that is at the state level in these liberal states.

This reminds me too much of Hotel Rwanda.

Yep.In Rwanda, the Tutsis were stereotyped as inherent liars, thieves, and killers. Kangura also depicted the Tutsis as biologically distinct from the Hutus and as being consumed by malice and wickedness. Radio Télévision Libra Mille-Collines (RTLMC), the local media outlet, joined in the propaganda effort, accusing the Tutsis of being plotters and parasites, and using the Tutsis'

If the Tusis were living off the Hutus the way liberals are living off our tax dollars, then they were parasites. I doubt that's the case so your analogy doesn't hold, but I'd be all for the Hutus cutting taxes for the purpose of making the Tutsis leave their nation, if it was the case.

And just because liberals are inherent liars, thieves, parasites and perverts doesn't mean the next assertion of a group being these things is a true assertion.

I know it sounds crazy to a liberal, but the "smaller government" crowd actually wants LESS government. LESS. That's right, not more, not the same amount, but LESS. OK?

You liberals have a different opinion and that's fine. You are wrong, but in this country you have the right to hold an incorrect opinion and then vote your convictions. (not convicts, although we know you love padding the polls)

Less government by way of cutting off the resources that fund government, forcing the hard choices. That's what the fiscal cliff could do for us at the federal level.

thrgd456:I know it sounds crazy to a liberal, but the "smaller government" crowd actually wants LESS government. LESS. That's right, not more, not the same amount, but LESS. OK?

You liberals have a different opinion and that's fine. You are wrong, but in this country you have the right to hold an incorrect opinion and then vote your convictions. (not convicts, although we know you love padding the polls)

Less government by way of cutting off the resources that fund government, forcing the hard choices. That's what the fiscal cliff could do for us at the federal level.

Yeah but that isn't reality. This is:Ohio really did go to President Obama last night, and he really did win. And he really was born in Hawaii. And he really is legitimately president of the United States -- again. And the Bureau of Labor Statistics did not make up a fake unemployment rate last month. And the Congressional Research Service really can find no evidence that cutting taxes on rich people grows the economy. And the polls were not skewed to oversample Democrats. And Nate Silver was not making up fake projections about the election to make conservatives feel bad. Nate Silver was doing math. And climate change is real. And rape really does cause pregnancy sometimes. And evolution is a thing. And Benghazi was an attack on us; it was not a scandal by us. And nobody is taking away anyone's guns. And taxes have not gone up. And the deficit is dropping, actually. And Saddam Hussein did not have weapons of mass destruction. And the moon landing was real. And FEMA is not building concentration camps. And U.N. election observers are not taking over Texas. And moderate reforms of the regulations on the insurance industry and the financial-services industry in this country are not the same thing as Communism.Most of your fellow Americans know these things and in addition, they know that the GOP is NOT a party of small government.The snake oil pitch about small government has been seen through, and rejected.Reality.

thrgd456:I know it sounds crazy to a liberal, but the "smaller government" crowd actually wants LESS government. LESS. That's right, not more, not the same amount, but LESS. OK?

You liberals have a different opinion and that's fine. You are wrong, but in this country you have the right to hold an incorrect opinion and then vote your convictions. (not convicts, although we know you love padding the polls)

Less government by way of cutting off the resources that fund government, forcing the hard choices. That's what the fiscal cliff could do for us at the federal level.

Dimensio:thrgd456: I know it sounds crazy to a liberal, but the "smaller government" crowd actually wants LESS government. LESS. That's right, not more, not the same amount, but LESS. OK?

You liberals have a different opinion and that's fine. You are wrong, but in this country you have the right to hold an incorrect opinion and then vote your convictions. (not convicts, although we know you love padding the polls)

Less government by way of cutting off the resources that fund government, forcing the hard choices. That's what the fiscal cliff could do for us at the federal level.

As you are an established liar, your claims lack credibility.

Well, whether he is intentionally lying or not, he is stating an untruth - the "small government" hoax.The "smaller government" crowd is fake - they DO NOT believe in less government. They just want government that serves their needs, and theirs alone, and ignores those of others. Try to talk to a "small government conservative" about cutting defense, or firing some cops, or tearing down a few jails - you'll find out how much they believe in "small government". Talk to them about not having government snooping into women's ladyparts, or stopping gays from marrying and you'll find out how much they believe in "small governemnt".Anyway, even if the believe were sincere, it would be childish. Who really believes that the biggest, richest, most powerful society that has ever existed (and this applies whether I am speaking of America or the modern West as a whole)can be ruled by a "small government"?It's chuckleheaded idiocy at best, and sly, cynical hypocrisy most of the time.

Sadly, I live in Kansas. It's gotten to the point where the moment I see my state's name in any article headline I immediately groan and ask, "NOW what?" Kansas is the poster child for right-wing thinking, and the state government is a perfect reflection of that. Hell, even the Kochs are here in Wichita. I enjoy discussing politics, even with people who are ideologically different, but there are very few people I can do so with here without having an aneurysm. The vast majority of the population here are ultra-conservative, and the tea party has a strong base. They've also immunized themselves to rational arguments and facts, immediately dismissing anything they disagree with as "liberal spin" (even if it's from a bi-partisan source) and happily citing back conservative blogs as though they were reputable academic studies. At work, total strangers might walk up to you and make an Obama joke or complain about liberals, simply assuming you're one of them. And why not? I'm a left-of-center independent, but I can tell you that there's very few left-of-anything in Kansas; except, perhaps, in Lawrence.

On election day at the polling location, there was a staffer who demanded to know whose car was illegally parked and loudly declared it was about to be towed. One of the women in line in front of me made a disgusted look and told her friend, "She must be a democrat." True story.

/Sorry for the rant.//Is suffocating here.///Thinking about getting out.

The Larch:Vodka Zombie: So, what you're saying is that the Teabaggers have no idea what they're doing?

I'd say that a small minority of them understand exactly what they're doing.

They're trying to destroy American's faith in the liberal government implemented by the founding fathers and replace it with a reactionary, authoritarian, dominionist form of government that they want to have instead.

The best way that the Tea Party has to destroy the American Constitution and destroy the current government is from within. By making the government broke, incompetent, and unresponsive to the needs of the wider population, eventually citizens will get fed up and throw the government out. When that happens, they'll implement the dream of the American Taliban.

What in the world makes them think they will be on top after they topple the house of cards?

I've no sympathy whatsoever. Heck, I hope the teabaggers completely destroy Kansas economy through their not just failed, but suicidal, policies.

Perhaps, when others watch Kansas drown in debt, unable to maintain its infrastructure or help those in need even as these asshats continue to scream "fark you all, 'cuz I got mine", Kansas can serve as a grim warning to the other states dealing with a teabagger infestation.

Now we get a chance to compare apples to teabags. We've seen whatthe radical right wing tea baggers have done to that state, now let's see what happensto California since the electorate took action and addressed the revenue issues. More sowith a super majority which is looming.

Serious Black:ebamit: As a Kansan, I can say without question that these tax cuts benefit me personally. It's like they looked at my situation (multiple corps, partnership, and rental-property income) and devised a plan that ensured I will pay absolutely no state income tax. None. Zip. Nada.

W-2 wage earners? They continue to pay. And now, thanks to our brilliant governor, they will pay a much higher percentage of the state's revenue than before. This, my friends, is a perfect example of a regressive tax. Hurting the little people is OK as long as the rich benefit. Let them eat cake!

At first, I thought this plan was just an example of how stupid these small men are. I thought that they were living in a fantasy world thinking that this plan will attract new businesses into the state. Obviously, no business owner is going to relocate to Kansas simply because the owner will pay no state income tax. Anyone who believes this myth exposes just how little they understand about the dynamics of owning a business.

Upon reflection, I realized they can't possibly be this stupid. They don't suffer from ignorance; instead, they are simply bad people. Let's face it: W-2 wage earners don't donate to Republican campaigns. High earners do. Screw the W-2 earners!

From their point of view, ruining a once great place to live is simply a cost of ensuring reelection. It's nothing more, nothing less. Thus, this is not a "tax plan" or "business development program". It's just a cynical plan to ensure reelection.

I may be a W-2 earner, but these tax cuts will also benefit me since the top bracket was reduced by, what, 1.5%? That's about an extra grand in my pocket. And I would still rather have them repeal these cuts so that we can keep the state from becoming a rat-infested shiathole.

It will only help you as a w-2 wage earner if you don't own a home, have children, are attending an institution of higher learning or any other activity that you were able to get a deduction on your taxes previously.

My state income taxes will increase even though Brownback lowered the percentage because I will lose the mortgage interest deduction and the child care tax credit. I will also be sending a child to college (KU - her choice) so any deductions that I would get for sending my child to an in-state college are also gone as well. Add in the inevitable tuition increases due to budget cuts on higher eduction.

I don't qualify got the EITC as I earn too much but know folks who will be hurt by these along with the elimination of the food sales tax refund.

Mrtraveler01:cirby: It does when you're trying to get people to start doing business in your state, and you cut the budget accordingly. As I noted above, they only need a five percent cut in spending to balance the budget. If you're too dumb to find five percent of a state budget to cut, you need to stay out of politics entirely.

It might bring more business to the state, but it won't be enough to make up for the shortfall as a result of the tax cut.

At best, you'll end up where you started and at worst, you'll be deeper in the red and have to cut spending even more than you probably needed to (which is the real intent of conservatives)/

People throw around tax cuts like it's a panacea to everything.

I've got to say this once and for all Tax cuts WILL NOT GET YOU OUT OF A DEFICIT!!!

Yup.

We have businesses leaving Kansas now. This tells you that taxation is not what brings or keeps businesses in a state.

Freightquote is moving from Lenexa, KS to KCMO.Jostens is going from Topeka, KS to Clarksville, TN.Boeing is leaving KS in 2013 and splitting off various sections to different states.

As far as I know, the only business relocating to KS is AMC and we spent millions of dollars to get them to do so.

Jackpot777:Do you know the way to Mordor: You think Kansas is bad? Try the Liberal Party run state of New South Wales in Australia.

Down here Liberals are right wing (go figure). Right now we are in the middle of savage job and spending cuts. Our Premier (like your state Governors) has vowed that the cuts will continue, even though an independent accounting body has found a BILLION extra dollars that the state government didn't know it had.

///And STILL they are pushing ahead in a no-tender process to build a second casino in Sydney that nobody wants.

///Crazy!!!

I spent a great deal of time in Britain (Stevenage for the Championship) and when people would say complete shiat about what they were told about the terrible socialist Europe, I would have dozens of examples of why they were talking out of their arses.

Most Fox News viewers over here have no idea how much The Dirty Digger used his Aussie experiences to shape American right-wing press. Australian Liberal, British Conservative, US Republican ...they are the same right-wing message on three land masses. They even swap analysts and media personnel. Hell: how long was Maggie Thatcher's son working for the GOP in Texas and taking part in shenanigans in Equitorial Guinea?

ghare:Bendal: Now that NC has veto proof majorities of Republicans in both houses, and a Republican Governor as well, I expect that same kind of nonsense coming out of our legislature starting next year. McCrory is talking about how the government is "broken" and he's bringing a businessman's viewpoint to the state, but so far he's not provided any particulars on what he will do.

Nothing on that list from Kansas though would surprise me if they came up with it. Our Republicans aren't any smarter than theirs, unfortunately.

WraithSama:Sadly, I live in Kansas. It's gotten to the point where the moment I see my state's name in any article headline I immediately groan and ask, "NOW what?" Kansas is the poster child for right-wing thinking, and the state government is a perfect reflection of that. Hell, even the Kochs are here in Wichita. I enjoy discussing politics, even with people who are ideologically different, but there are very few people I can do so with here without having an aneurysm. The vast majority of the population here are ultra-conservative, and the tea party has a strong base. They've also immunized themselves to rational arguments and facts, immediately dismissing anything they disagree with as "liberal spin" (even if it's from a bi-partisan source) and happily citing back conservative blogs as though they were reputable academic studies. At work, total strangers might walk up to you and make an Obama joke or complain about liberals, simply assuming you're one of them. And why not? I'm a left-of-center independent, but I can tell you that there's very few left-of-anything in Kansas; except, perhaps, in Lawrence.

On election day at the polling location, there was a staffer who demanded to know whose car was illegally parked and loudly declared it was about to be towed. One of the women in line in front of me made a disgusted look and told her friend, "She must be a democrat." True story.

/Sorry for the rant.//Is suffocating here.///Thinking about getting out.

We must have lived in different Wichitas.

Growing up in Riverside I never heard anything ultra-conservative. Even at church those who were republicans were fiscal conservatives only. I'm not saying you are totally wrong, but I wouldn't classify the vast majority of the town as ultra-conservative.

/remember to breath and you won't suffocate//go volunteer for the local dems and get connected in with the resistance!