Wait...George R.R. Martin stands for "Ricky Martin"? _________________
"I believe toys resonate with us as humans, we can hold them them, it's tactile, real! They are totems for our extended beliefs and imaginations. A fetish for ideas that hold as much interest and passion as old religious relics for some. We display them in our homes. They show who we are. They are signals for similar thinking people. A way we connect with each other...and I guess thats why I do toys. That connection." -Ashley Wood

It's an interesting read. It shows when some of the characters mentioned in passing lived (e.g. Moonwood the Hare, Queen Swanwhite) and gives some background into the origin of the non-Narnian countries. It's nowhere near as complex as Tolkien's timelines though.

Life Is The Path wrote:

Finished The Last Battle. I kinda figured out what was going to happen so it wasn't a shock, and it wasn't as painful as it could have been going in blind, but still. Damn. That was really quite sad. I've nothing to add on that point except a low, incoherent wail/sob, so I'll move on.

The first half of LB is really rough.

Click here to see the hidden message (It might contain spoilers)

Dryads being murdered, Dwarfs being sold into slavery, Shifts speech about turning Narnia into a "country worth living in"... Ouch.

It broke my heart the first time I read it.

Life Is The Path wrote:

I really, really liked the bad Narnians. As far as I gathered, up 'til that point Narnians had been a sort of uniform niceness (aside from the Witch's minions), which jarred me a little, so it was nice to see division in that aspect, and the ape* was quite an interesting character. But what I found to be very interesting was the dwarfs who wanted essentially emancipation from rule from the others. That was a nice little touch, and felt quite in character.

Yeah, the Dwarfs have been the grey area for the whole series and I thought that was a fitting end for them (and hooray for Poggin!). I liked the black and white characters (relatively speaking) up to this point, but I also loved how things became more muddled in the last book. The thing that has always been fundamentally right about Narnia has been broken.

Life Is The Path wrote:

Though one thing that I didn't understand: when Narnia (the country) was conquered, why did the rest of the world come to an end? Even Archenland, Calormen and the lands to the north were destroyed. Unless I missed it, that wasn't explained in the book.

My take on that is that Narnia's demise is pretty much a strike to the heart of that world. Narnia was the firstborn and the beacon of nobility and light. I'm having a little trouble remembering because of all the books it's been the longest since I read LB, but I don't think it ever mentions whether Archenland was taken over by the Calormenes before they took Narnia, but if they hadn't it's inevitable. The desert has always prevented the Calormenes from conquering the free northern countries, but once they have a foothold in the north, I don't see anything stopping them from conquering the rest of the world (at least the world depicted on the maps - I've always wondered if there are lands beyond that are never seen or mentioned in the books). Because of the hopelessness of the situation, Aslan drew the world to a close.

Life Is The Path wrote:

But the main thing I quite liked was the end. I mean, not a particular part of it, but I liked the world within world part of it, and Lewis excelled in the writing of that part.

"It's all in Plato, all in Plato: Bless me, what do they teach them at these schools?"

LB is an emotional roller coaster for me. It takes me from the depths of despair to the heights of euphoria. I'm glad that Lewis was able to give our heroes a hopeless last stand, but still end it all with a happy ending. It's hard to explain how some endings like this work in an emotionally satisfying way, like in LB, while others feel cheap. It's the difference between deus ex machina and what Tolkien called "eucatastrophe". What makes the difference, I really don't know, but it's a huge one._________________
Where sky and water meet,
Where the waves grow sweet,
Doubt not, Reepicheep,
To find all you seek,
There is the utter east.

Thanks. And I liked the information on the origin of the non-Narnian countries - that was of specific interest to me, during my read through, and especially after MN.

Quote:

The first half of LB is really rough.

Click here to see the hidden message (It might contain spoilers)

Dryads being murdered, Dwarfs being sold into slavery, Shifts speech about turning Narnia into a "country worth living in"... Ouch.

It broke my heart the first time I read it.

Indeed. My eyes welled up when the dryad thing happened.

Quote:

Yeah, the Dwarfs have been the grey area for the whole series and I thought that was a fitting end for them (and hooray for Poggin!). I liked the black and white characters (relatively speaking) up to this point, but I also loved how things became more muddled in the last book. The thing that has always been fundamentally right about Narnia has been broken.

That does make sense, thematically. Though I do still wish that it wasn't so black and white in the past books, I do think Lewis did a good job of breaking that fundamental right.

Quote:

My take on that is that Narnia's demise is pretty much a strike to the heart of that world. Narnia was the firstborn and the beacon of nobility and light. I'm having a little trouble remembering because of all the books it's been the longest since I read LB, but I don't think it ever mentions whether Archenland was taken over by the Calormenes before they took Narnia, but if they hadn't it's inevitable. The desert has always prevented the Calormenes from conquering the free northern countries, but once they have a foothold in the north, I don't see anything stopping them from conquering the rest of the world (at least the world depicted on the maps - I've always wondered if there are lands beyond that are never seen or mentioned in the books). Because of the hopelessness of the situation, Aslan drew the world to a close.

Click here to see the hidden message (It might contain spoilers)

Archenland hadn't been taken over before Tirian went through the door, I think that was explicitly stated. But afterwards? That's never said. But I do have a theory:

It essentially boils down to the fact that our perception of time is relative.

When Aslan starts the end of the world, to Tirian, and those in the shack, and around the doorway, it looks like it's all happening essentially 'now' (though over an indeterminate amount of time). However, it's possible, and I think likely, that to the rest of the world, things continued as normal for a long while, perhaps a few hundred years. Calormen did go on to conquer Archenland, Narnia continued being a province, but that took time, and those people who arrived are the countless people who died over the centuries, but from Tirian's perspective, it looked like it was happening all at once. And the demise of the world, the waters rising, actually happened at a normal, sedentary pace, but to Tirian it happened very quickly.

So essentially: while it seemed that the conquest of Narnia caused the end of the world, but that was merely how it was perceived by Tirian. In reality they weren't causally related. Think of it like Einstein's train thought experiment.

Granted, the timeline you posted doesn't support this, but I do think it makes a reasonable amount of sense.

Quote:

"It's all in Plato, all in Plato: Bless me, what do they teach them at these schools?"

I loved that bit.

Quote:

LB is an emotional roller coaster for me. It takes me from the depths of despair to the heights of euphoria. I'm glad that Lewis was able to give our heroes a hopeless last stand, but still end it all with a happy ending. It's hard to explain how some endings like this work in an emotionally satisfying way, like in LB, while others feel cheap. It's the difference between deus ex machina and what Tolkien called "eucatastrophe". What makes the difference, I really don't know, but it's a huge one.

I think I understand what you mean._________________I am a Star Wars fan. That doesn't mean that I hate or love Jar Jar. That doesn't mean I hate or love Lucas, or agree or disagree 100% with him. That doesn't mean I prefer the PT over the OT, or vice versa. That doesn't mean I hate the EU, or even love all of it (or even read all of it). These are not prerequisites. Being a man is not a prerequisite. Being a geek is not a prerequisite. The only prerequisite is that I love something about Star Wars. I am a Star Wars fan.

Posted: Tue Jun 03, 2014 8:55 am

Message

ReepicheepMaster

Joined: 05 Feb 2008Posts: 6956Location: Sailing into the unknown

Life Is The Path wrote:

Click here to see the hidden message (It might contain spoilers)

Archenland hadn't been taken over before Tirian went through the door, I think that was explicitly stated. But afterwards? That's never said. But I do have a theory:

It essentially boils down to the fact that our perception of time is relative.

When Aslan starts the end of the world, to Tirian, and those in the shack, and around the doorway, it looks like it's all happening essentially 'now' (though over an indeterminate amount of time). However, it's possible, and I think likely, that to the rest of the world, things continued as normal for a long while, perhaps a few hundred years. Calormen did go on to conquer Archenland, Narnia continued being a province, but that took time, and those people who arrived are the countless people who died over the centuries, but from Tirian's perspective, it looked like it was happening all at once. And the demise of the world, the waters rising, actually happened at a normal, sedentary pace, but to Tirian it happened very quickly.

So essentially: while it seemed that the conquest of Narnia caused the end of the world, but that was merely how it was perceived by Tirian. In reality they weren't causally related. Think of it like Einstein's train thought experiment.

Granted, the timeline you posted doesn't support this, but I do think it makes a reasonable amount of sense.

That's an interesting theory. Time would work differently in Aslan's Country, as it does in the other worlds, so things might look different if you're standing in the doorway to Aslan's Country. I've never thought of that before._________________
Where sky and water meet,
Where the waves grow sweet,
Doubt not, Reepicheep,
To find all you seek,
There is the utter east.

Posted: Wed Jun 04, 2014 2:52 pm

Message

ReepicheepMaster

Joined: 05 Feb 2008Posts: 6956Location: Sailing into the unknown

As per Life's recommendation, I'm reading The Winter King by Bernard Cornwell._________________
Where sky and water meet,
Where the waves grow sweet,
Doubt not, Reepicheep,
To find all you seek,
There is the utter east.

^ If any of you were woken up by a high pitched squeal just now, I do apologise._________________I am a Star Wars fan. That doesn't mean that I hate or love Jar Jar. That doesn't mean I hate or love Lucas, or agree or disagree 100% with him. That doesn't mean I prefer the PT over the OT, or vice versa. That doesn't mean I hate the EU, or even love all of it (or even read all of it). These are not prerequisites. Being a man is not a prerequisite. Being a geek is not a prerequisite. The only prerequisite is that I love something about Star Wars. I am a Star Wars fan.

Posted: Thu Jun 05, 2014 9:35 am

Message

ReepicheepMaster

Joined: 05 Feb 2008Posts: 6956Location: Sailing into the unknown

_________________
Where sky and water meet,
Where the waves grow sweet,
Doubt not, Reepicheep,
To find all you seek,
There is the utter east.

Finished book one of ASOIAF, now on to book two. This is going to be a long, long trek._________________I am a Star Wars fan. That doesn't mean that I hate or love Jar Jar. That doesn't mean I hate or love Lucas, or agree or disagree 100% with him. That doesn't mean I prefer the PT over the OT, or vice versa. That doesn't mean I hate the EU, or even love all of it (or even read all of it). These are not prerequisites. Being a man is not a prerequisite. Being a geek is not a prerequisite. The only prerequisite is that I love something about Star Wars. I am a Star Wars fan.

Posted: Sat Jun 14, 2014 8:49 pm

Message

GrandMasterMaster

Joined: 26 Aug 2011Posts: 576Location: Earth Jedi Temple

^I started re-reading the series a few weeks ago, and now I'm on Book 4._________________"But it was so artistically done."

“No. I am Ganner. This threshold is mine. I claim it for my own. Bring on your thousands, one at a time or all in a rush. I don’t give a damn. None shall pass.”

"Shaken, not stirred, will get you cold water with a dash of gin and dry vermouth. The reason you stir it with a special spoon is so not to chip the ice. James is ordering a weak martini and being snooty about it."

Posted: Mon Jun 16, 2014 8:01 am

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Taral-DLOSMaster

Joined: 23 Nov 2010Posts: 1727Location: Ontario, Canada

I finally finished Dune: House Corrino. The prequel trilogy was a lot of fun (essentially where the various characters of Dune were, from 35 years before Dune to 15 years before Dune, ending with Paul's birth).

I'm currently reading Children of Dune. I want to finish the original saga (up to Chapterhouse Dune) before I read more post-Frank Herbert books._________________"I'm...from Earth."

Last edited by Taral-DLOS on Mon Jun 16, 2014 12:33 pm; edited 1 time in total

Posted: Mon Jun 16, 2014 12:17 pm

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Caedus_16Master

Joined: 15 Apr 2008Posts: 4770Location: Korriban

Taral-DLOS wrote:

I finally finished Dune: House Corrino. The prequel trilogy was a lot of fun (essentially where the various characters of Dune were, from 35 years before Dune to 15 years before Dune, ending with Paul's birth).

I'm not reading Children of Dune. I want to finish the original saga (up to Chapterhouse Dune) before I read more post-Frank Herbert books.

Children of Dune is a Herbert novel, are you thinking of something else?_________________Perfection is a lifelong pursuit requiring sacrifice. The only way to get it quicker is to sacrifice the most.

Posted: Mon Jun 16, 2014 12:34 pm

Message

Taral-DLOSMaster

Joined: 23 Nov 2010Posts: 1727Location: Ontario, Canada

Caedus_16 wrote:

Taral-DLOS wrote:

I finally finished Dune: House Corrino. The prequel trilogy was a lot of fun (essentially where the various characters of Dune were, from 35 years before Dune to 15 years before Dune, ending with Paul's birth).

I'm not reading Children of Dune. I want to finish the original saga (up to Chapterhouse Dune) before I read more post-Frank Herbert books.

Children of Dune is a Herbert novel, are you thinking of something else?

Fixed it. I meant "now," not "not."

Yes, I am reading Children of Dune, as the next step to reading all of the original Dune saga._________________"I'm...from Earth."

I finally finished reading the last book in The Sundering series (Forgotten Realms). Sadly, I didn't like Ed Greenwood's book that much. The Herald had a lot of repetition in it and shallow characters.

I'm sort of in limbo now as I decide what book I'll dive into next. I tentatively stepped into A Study In Silks but I'm not sure I'm going to keep with it because I just got Cibola Burn in the mail yesterday._________________
"I believe toys resonate with us as humans, we can hold them them, it's tactile, real! They are totems for our extended beliefs and imaginations. A fetish for ideas that hold as much interest and passion as old religious relics for some. We display them in our homes. They show who we are. They are signals for similar thinking people. A way we connect with each other...and I guess thats why I do toys. That connection." -Ashley Wood

As per Life's recommendation, I'm reading The Winter King by Bernard Cornwell.

I'm really sorry for the lateness, as I entirely forgot about this: but the names can be a bit ... difficult sometimes, so Cornwell made a name pronunciation list to make things easier: http://www.bernardcornwell.net/the-arthur-books-information/_________________I am a Star Wars fan. That doesn't mean that I hate or love Jar Jar. That doesn't mean I hate or love Lucas, or agree or disagree 100% with him. That doesn't mean I prefer the PT over the OT, or vice versa. That doesn't mean I hate the EU, or even love all of it (or even read all of it). These are not prerequisites. Being a man is not a prerequisite. Being a geek is not a prerequisite. The only prerequisite is that I love something about Star Wars. I am a Star Wars fan.

Posted: Tue Jun 24, 2014 8:38 am

Message

ReepicheepMaster

Joined: 05 Feb 2008Posts: 6956Location: Sailing into the unknown

^ Wow. I was way off on a lot of them haha. I figured that Cei was pronounced "Kay" because I recognized the character, but wow, I would have never guessed some of those.

And I'm done. I really enjoyed The Winter King. It stood on its own feet as a good Dark Ages epic without even considering the fact that its based on Arthurian legend. It was really clever how you can see how this story could have spawned the legends after many corruptions and embellishments, but I don't think it would be necessary to know anything about the legend to enjoy the story. Even though the High Middle Ages is my favourite part of the Middle Ages and the idealized retellings of Arthur will always be closest to my heart, I liked how Cornwell kept the setting authentic to the Dark Ages e.g. motte and bailey castles, mail and leather armour rather than plate, rough warrior mentality with Arthur being the only really chivalrous character, the mixing of Christian and pagan cultures etc. I connected with Derfel and thought that Nimue and Cornwell's interpretations of Arthur and Guinevere were compelling characters. I second-guessed Arthur for the first 2/3rds of the book, thinking he had ulterior motives, but by the end I realized that while he is very human, he also has good intentions. Guinevere was basically a megalomaniac, but I have a soft spot for those kind of characters. I also liked Cornwell's descriptions and overall writing style. He kept me interested the entire time.

Now for my gripe. I recognize that this is completely subjective, but I really didn't care for Lancelot's portrayal. While I do recognize the cleverness of the portrayal (can't you just see how the Lancelot of legend would have been created?), it pained me to see my hero basically slandered. Lies, all lies!

I was also less enthused with Merlin, simply because he felt a little too... magical? He didn't seem to fit as well into the world as the other characters.

As a standalone, I actually think it would have served the story better for the characters to have their last stand and go down fighting rather than having Merlin save the day, but I recognize that there are two more stories to tell. Having all your character getting slaughtered in the first book would be inconvenient.

Overall, really good book and I look forward to starting the next one. I'll probably pick up Enemy of God today or tomorrow._________________
Where sky and water meet,
Where the waves grow sweet,
Doubt not, Reepicheep,
To find all you seek,
There is the utter east.