Wow. You're incredibly disgusting. You marginalize blue-collar workers because they chose a certain profession? Yeah, you have no class. $30/hour to bend, twist, lift and stand on your feet t for a number of hours while you help earn CEO millions a year??? . I'd say that's a fair wage.
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Wow... you are definitely the master of outrageous, irrational hyperbole.

First you concluded that if someone doesn't like handouts, that must mean they want the children of killed soldiers to suffer, and now you are stating that I am marginalizing all blue collar workers? I cannot imagine what you will come up with next.

First of all, you are really stretching with the use of the term "profession" to describe what they do: From wikipedia : "A profession is a vocation founded upon specialized high educational training, the purpose of which is to supply objective counsel and service to others, for a direct and definite compensation, wholly apart from expectation of other business gain" Use any other source if you like, the result will be the same. They have a job, but it is not a profession, unless you also think that someone who digs a ditch with a shovel to be a professional too.

I know firsthand, people who end up dropping a bolt in a hole on an assembly line did not CHOOSE that after careful consideration, and then dedicate years of their life for prepatory training to get there. They usually fall into it because the union assures it pays well, and the only real barrier to entry is that one possesses opposable thumbs, and the ability to repeat a very rudimentary set of instructions over and over again. Any simple, repetitive task that you could literally train a bonobo monkey to perform in NOT a profession.

Obviously you must not know many blue collar workers, or you would realize that is not always the case. My neighbor is a ticketed Machinist. Not only does that involve a lot of formalized training before one could even begin to be useful, but also he did an apprenticeship that lasted over 3 years if I recall, before he was fully accredited. I have no problem with blue collar workers like that making good money. That is a profession.

You want to talk disgusting? How about the fact the median wage for Nurses is approx 64K a year. Yes, that means that a assembly line worker with lots of seniority who gets enough overtime could make MORE than a nurse. This is also a job that is physically demanding, requires standing on your feet all day, bending, twisting, lifting. Only it required MUCH more training, and the results of a mistake can literally kill people. If Dick Dropout fails to bolt a wheel on properly, it will be caught by QA before it hits the showroom. If Nancy nurse makes a slight miscalculation on some IV drip, that could end up being fatal. The fact that their compensation is even remotely similar is beyond disgusting to me. But, I suppose a left-wing view is that it's good that everyone is paid the same, as utopia is achieved when the outcomes of peoples personal decisions are equalized.

Let's try to stay on task kids. I don't want you to start steering the debate into the social/moral/conservative nanny realm. I want you to stay with the focus of limited government, rational taxes and the economy. I don't want you to divert the conversation into marriage, gays, abortion, religious freedom, contraception, god's place in your life or anything else. It's a loser and there is no persuading anyone. The republican party will lose the independents--they will walk away or stay home in droves come November. And we will lose the presidential election BY A LANDSLIDE. You've got to focus--making Obama a one-term president. Just for the next few months quick dicking around with the private choices of the people and get back on message and address the big picture, the main event. And if you can't get the radical right to cooperate at least have the balls to kick them to the curb and deal with the consequences. Nobody wants you in their personal lives--you aren't qualified for that duty.

Damn!

(OK, back to our regularly scheduled political programming....)

Well I must say I agree. Oh and by the way... If you're trying to be president it's probably not a good idea to scapegoat and completely write off half of the electorate as lazy moochers. Especially don't do it while pandering to super rich out of touch doners. It just looks bad. And even though you have utter contempt for them, you never know, you just might need those lazy moocher's votes in a pinch.

Wow... you are definitely the master of outrageous, irrational hyperbole.

How am I the outrageous one when you just marginalized hard-working Americans? Is that acceptable? I know...I know...I put words into your mouth, right? You stated..."those who dont pay dropouts $30 an hour to drop a bolt in a hole.". Is that a Rmoney-like slip-up that wasn't as elegant as it could've been? Are you an elitist? Tell us how you really feel about these folks.

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First you concluded that if someone doesn't like handouts, that must mean they want the children of killed soldiers to suffer, and now you are stating that I am marginalizing all blue collar workers? I cannot imagine what you will come up with next.

Actually, you generalized college grants as being handouts because you have absolutely no clue as to why these funds are accessible to certain students. My quip was to inform you, grants are far more dignified than just free money and handouts, buddy.

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First of all, you are really stretching with the use of the term "profession" to describe what they do: From wikipedia : "A profession is a vocation founded upon specialized high educational training, the purpose of which is to supply objective counsel and service to others, for a direct and definite compensation, wholly apart from expectation of other business gain" Use any other source if you like, the result will be the same. They have a job, but it is not a profession, unless you also think that someone who digs a ditch with a shovel to be a professional too.

You can split hairs until you're blue in the face.

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I know firsthand, people who end up dropping a bolt in a hole on an assembly line did not CHOOSE that after careful consideration, and then dedicate years of their life for prepatory training to get there. They usually fall into it because the union assures it pays well, and the only real barrier to entry is that one possesses opposable thumbs, and the ability to repeat a very rudimentary set of instructions over and over again. Any simple, repetitive task that you could literally train a bonobo monkey to perform in NOT a profession.

You are extremely condescending. The same can be said about the military or pretty much any civil servant career. The point is, we need people who are willing to do these jobs. Why or how they got there is irrelevant and you seem to be stuck on the irrelevant to prove some obscure elitist point without just stating your clear contempt. It's a dignified job hardworking, tax-paying Americans do. There is a plethora of highly-educated, highly-trained, incompetent,lazy, greedy attorneys out there, too, for example. How do you rank them on worthiness?

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Obviously you must not know many blue collar workers, or you would realize that is not always the case. My neighbor is a ticketed Machinist. Not only does that involve a lot of formalized training before one could even begin to be useful, but also he did an apprenticeship that lasted over 3 years if I recall, before he was fully accredited. I have no problem with blue collar workers like that making good money. That is a profession.

"Blue collar workers like that..." What does that even mean? The nature of the job dictates the intensity of the training. And with the advancement of technology in this industry,I'm certain less involvement is necessary to build a car. Certain concessions were made due to the lost of jobs and perhaps the current wage is a reflection of that. That's standard and fair. You can't fault individuals for not being an Astrophysicist. It is what it is. A living wage is necessary. Having the opportunity to make something of one's life is necessary. Ironically, These $30/hour folks who you chide are tax payers.. Are home owners... Are shareholders.

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You want to talk disgusting? How about the fact the median wage for Nurses is approx 64K a year. Yes, that means that a assembly line worker with lots of seniority who gets enough overtime could make MORE than a nurse. This is also a job that is physically demanding, requires standing on your feet all day, bending, twisting, lifting. Only it required MUCH more training, and the results of a mistake can literally kill people. If Dick Dropout fails to bolt a wheel on properly, it will be caught by QA before it hits the showroom. If Nancy nurse makes a slight miscalculation on some IV drip, that could end up being fatal. The fact that their compensation is even remotely similar is beyond disgusting to me. But, I suppose a left-wing view is that it's good that everyone is paid the same, as utopia is achieved when the outcomes of peoples personal decisions are equalized.

Sure, lets talk disgusting using your logic...But clearly you have no problem with a nurse doing the job of a highly-trained, board-certified doctor who earns 3 maybe 4 times more than them sitting idle signing off on prescriptions while his/her nurse is actually there with the patient day-in and day-out. Meanwhile the nurse is topped-out salary-wise yet is doing the duty of an actual doctor in most cases. Your argument is so retarded it leaps out of one industry and overlooks the obvious to scold another industry. How laughable is this?

BTW, a bartender in Miami, for example, can earn more than a nurse. Go cry in the mirror.

BTW, a bartender in Miami, for example, can earn more than a nurse. Go cry in the mirror.

Bottom line: is that a GOOD thing, in your mind ? Do you think society will benefit when kids compare the lifestyle, and decide, "gee, why would I want to study hard, and then end up dealing with shit (literally) once I do find a job, when I can just become a bartender and make more money for less effort".

Is that really an incentive we want to create for the youth ? There's already a shortage of health care workers, and as the population ages, that demand will just increase.

No different than those who just fall into some menial job whose compensation is disproportionate to it's difficulty because of some union. Once again that creates an incentive. Kids start just phoning it in during high school, why pay attention at all when they can end up with a lifestyle just as good as someone who busted their ass. Is that really what we want the kids to be aiming at ?

Maybe that's exactly what the kids in Asia today with a real understanding of what a "work ethic" is are counting on. It will make the final stages of the eventual financial takeover that much easier.

Maybe that's exactly what the kids in Asia today with a real understanding of what a "work ethic" is are counting on. It will make the final stages of the eventual financial takeover that much easier.

You mean like our parents and grandparents? As much as my parents and their friends like to look at my generation and chastise us, they need to understand it is them who made us this way. They created the monster that is Generation Me.

My friends parents are pushing him into a government job. Because he will get paid more than his counterparts in the private sector. He will be impossible to fire and get paid the rest of his life. Ahhhhh the union life style... isn't it grand?

While those who live that life style scoff at those who choose to take the risk in opening their own business or working hard without the guarantee that the gov't is going to be there to back them up. When the risk takers end up making more money and spending more money.. They are the pigs.. the greedy elitists.. the 1%..

Wonderful country we live in.. Those who CHOOSE to be drones can openly berate those who want more. Why shouldn't they? Our own president has no respect for business owners... why should the people of the USA.

__________________

"It is better to be hated for what you are than loved for what you are not."
-André Gide

Bottom line: is that a GOOD thing, in your mind ? Do you think society will benefit when kids compare the lifestyle, and decide, "gee, why would I want to study hard, and then end up dealing with shit (literally) once I do find a job, when I can just become a bartender and make more money for less effort".

Is that really an incentive we want to create for the youth ? There's already a shortage of health care workers, and as the population ages, that demand will just increase.

No different than those who just fall into some menial job whose compensation is disproportionate to it's difficulty because of some union. Once again that creates an incentive. Kids start just phoning it in during high school, why pay attention at all when they can end up with a lifestyle just as good as someone who busted their ass. Is that really what we want the kids to be aiming at ?

Maybe that's exactly what the kids in Asia today with a real understanding of what a "work ethic" is are counting on. It will make the final stages of the eventual financial takeover that much easier.

Oh, please. Spare me. IT IS a good thing when an enterprising individual has options to earn a decent living. Everyone isn't cut out to be a scholar, engineer or pilot. That's a romantic view. Yes, in America, one can achieve their goal, no matter what those goals are, by simply perfecting their craft or if they choose to, by simply going to work. As long as it's an honest living, I have no issue with it. You must really be tormenting yourself by knowing the salaries of bad actors, untalented athletes and reality stars.

My friends parents are pushing him into a government job. Because he will get paid more than his counterparts in the private sector. He will be impossible to fire and get paid the rest of his life. Ahhhhh the union life style... isn't it grand?

Yes, I've heard that before too. The funny thing is, people who think that way dont understand basic economics. They dont understand that it's the non-union people who make the union lifestyle even possible.

They think EVERYONE should go join union, and get paid a lot for doing little. The thing is, the only reason system is (barely) sustainable at all as it is because of the fact that not everyone is in a union.

If you push a broom in a Sony TV factory, it takes you X hours of work to buy one of the new Sony TVs.
If everyone, including that broom pusher, now got union wages of $30/hour, that would great right? Wrong.

What happens then is that the cost to operate the factory is now so much higher, that Sony can no longer even break even selling TV's at the old price. So now they either stop production, or crank up the price.

So now the broom pusher still has to work the same X hours he worked before to buy the same TV. Sure, all the numbers are higher, but the end result is the same, his lifestyle has not improved. Same thing applies to groceries, clothes, etc.