Should ya have to show ID when you vote?

Phatscotty wrote:Minnesota and 12 other states have made it crystal clear that it isn't, and that the Republicans of yesterday will go the way of the Dinosaurs, and the people have taken matters into their own hands to see that the new breed of Republicans are more Liberty oriented and more fiscally Conservative.

They laughed you out of the Convention.

Phatscotty wrote:BTW, are you seriously mouthpiecing for "The Republican Party"? Lmao!

How could you possibly get that idea from what I've said?

Phatscotty wrote:Like a guy who is trying to kick out the Bush Republicans and has done more than mostly anyone to actually change the party on a local level GIVES A FLYING f*ck what "The Republican Party" says...

They laughed you out of the Convention. And you run back to them like a whipped puppy.

...I prefer a man who will burn the flag and then wrap himself in the Constitution to a man who will burn the Constitution and then wrap himself in the flag.

Is an interesting read if you're interested in the other side of the debate.

Luckily, Symmetry does not have any skin in this game....IE no reason to have an opinion

I bet all the no votes are 90% foreign

You are incorrect, while this has become a US politics dominated thread, the issues involved have long been at play in the UK. British people rioted during the Thatcher years at such an imposition of an effective poll tax- paying for your right to vote.

On the conservative side, and why I find your faux-libertarianism so at odds with your position in this thread, many conservatives oppose the idea of the government collecting so much data on a free citizen for a national ID card needed to exercise the right to vote.

the world is in greater peril from those who tolerate or encourage evil than from those who actually commit it- Albert Einstein

Is an interesting read if you're interested in the other side of the debate.

Luckily, Symmetry does not have any skin in this game....IE no reason to have an opinion

I bet all the no votes are 90% foreign

You are incorrect, while this has become a US politics dominated thread, the issues involved have long been at play in the UK. British people rioted during the Thatcher years at such an imposition of an effective poll tax- paying for your right to vote.

On the conservative side, and why I find your faux-libertarianism so at odds with your position in this thread, many conservatives oppose the idea of the government collecting so much data on a free citizen for a national ID card needed to exercise the right to vote.

but how do people tell who is a citizen when rights reserved only for citizens, such as voting, are being exercized?

Last edited by Phatscotty on Tue Oct 30, 2012 7:59 pm, edited 3 times in total.

Is an interesting read if you're interested in the other side of the debate.

Luckily, Symmetry does not have any skin in this game....IE no reason to have an opinion

I bet all the no votes are 90% foreign

You are incorrect, while this has become a US politics dominated thread, the issues involved have long been at play in the UK. British people rioted during the Thatcher years at such an imposition of an effective poll tax- paying for your right to vote.

On the conservative side, and why I find your faux-libertarianism so at odds with your position in this thread, many conservatives oppose the idea of the government collecting so much data on a free citizen for a national ID card needed to exercise the right to vote.

but how do people tell who is a citizen when rights reserved only for citizens, such as voting, are being exercized?

I would ask a counter question- do you believe that bigger government oversight over citizens is the answer?

the world is in greater peril from those who tolerate or encourage evil than from those who actually commit it- Albert Einstein

let me ask you a counter counter question. Why do you forget this is about voter security and accuracy of a necessary and primary at it's core function of government? You think just because good and smart and common sense government cost any money whatsoever, you can attack it with the large government argument?

Voting is a legitimate function of government, and the people get to decide democratically on a local level how much they want to pay for Voter ID security and efficient election systems. Like I said, we balanced our budget. Which means the Democrat governor has already executive ordered 500 billion dollars for stadiums and parks and water fountains. We are also putting a couple million into protecting peoples right to vote and making it more secure. We are aware of the cost, and also of the projections of money saved....

Phatscotty wrote:let me ask you a counter counter question. Why do you forget this is about voter security and accuracy of a necessary and primary at it's core function of government? You think just because good and smart and common sense government cost any money whatsoever, you can attack it with the large government argument?

Voting is a legitimate function of government, and the people get to decide democratically on a local level how much they want to pay for Voter ID security and efficient election systems. Like I said, we balanced our budget. Which means the Democrat governor has already executive ordered 500 billion dollars for stadiums and parks and water fountains. We are also putting a couple million into protecting peoples right to vote.

You've founded this argument on a false principle- that voter fraud is a significant problem that needs to be dealt with, and that voter ID would help people vote. I posted above a fairly weighty article outlining the problems with that position.

Now, when you read it, if you want, perhaps you can answer my question:

Do you believe that bigger government oversight over citizens is the answer?

the world is in greater peril from those who tolerate or encourage evil than from those who actually commit it- Albert Einstein

Phatscotty wrote:let me ask you a counter counter question. Why do you forget this is about voter security and accuracy of a necessary and primary at it's core function of government? You think just because good and smart and common sense government cost any money whatsoever, you can attack it with the large government argument?

Voting is a legitimate function of government, and the people get to decide democratically on a local level how much they want to pay for Voter ID security and efficient election systems. Like I said, we balanced our budget. Which means the Democrat governor has already executive ordered 500 billion dollars for stadiums and parks and water fountains. We are also putting a couple million into protecting peoples right to vote.

You've founded this argument on a false principle- that voter fraud is a significant problem that needs to be dealt with, and that voter ID would help people vote. I posted above a fairly weighty article outlining the problems with that position.

Now, when you read it, if you want, perhaps you can answer my question:

Do you believe that bigger government oversight over citizens is the answer?

yet more and more instances, from both sides, keep popping up of voter fraud...... and it is a problem in my state. A big problem, and guess who decides how big or small a problem it is? People from my state decide, not some Brit from half way around the world who thinks he knows our issues better than we do.

COLUMBUS, Ohio – Three Ohio residents have come forward to confirm on the record their accounts of questionable practices by Democrats to influence voters in Ohio, a crucial swing state in the presidential contest, first reported by Human Events on Oct. 26.

Phatscotty wrote:let me ask you a counter counter question. Why do you forget this is about voter security and accuracy of a necessary and primary at it's core function of government? You think just because good and smart and common sense government cost any money whatsoever, you can attack it with the large government argument?

Voting is a legitimate function of government, and the people get to decide democratically on a local level how much they want to pay for Voter ID security and efficient election systems. Like I said, we balanced our budget. Which means the Democrat governor has already executive ordered 500 billion dollars for stadiums and parks and water fountains. We are also putting a couple million into protecting peoples right to vote.

You've founded this argument on a false principle- that voter fraud is a significant problem that needs to be dealt with, and that voter ID would help people vote. I posted above a fairly weighty article outlining the problems with that position.

Now, when you read it, if you want, perhaps you can answer my question:

Do you believe that bigger government oversight over citizens is the answer?

yet more and more instances, from both sides, keep popping up of voter fraud...... and it is a problem in my state. A big problem, and guess who decides how big or small a problem it is? People from my state decide, not some Brit from half way around the world who thinks he knows our issues better than we do.

COLUMBUS, Ohio – Three Ohio residents have come forward to confirm on the record their accounts of questionable practices by Democrats to influence voters in Ohio, a crucial swing state in the presidential contest, first reported by Human Events on Oct. 26.

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I answered you fairly, and you come back with this muck? Phatscotty is a troll.

the world is in greater peril from those who tolerate or encourage evil than from those who actually commit it- Albert Einstein

government size is not the issue. voting accuracy is. I reject flat out your attempts to try to make this an issue about the size of government. Gov't will do their primary functions, and yes that costs money. You can't paint me into an Anarchist who wants no gov't

If you really cared about government size, you would be harping about the programs that cost hundreds of billions, not millions, with projections for future savings.

You true motive is to keep alive the only way the Left can win, and that is by cheating at the polls. The Right does it too (EVERYONE DOES IT) but especially the Left, most especially in Minnesota. Only the most hardcore Liberals and Progressives oppose this common sense issue.

Phatscotty wrote:government size is not the issue. voting accuracy is. I reject flat out your attempts to try to make this an issue about the size of government. Gov't will do their primary functions, and yes that costs money. You can't paint me into an Anarchist who wants no gov't

If you really cared about government size, you would be harping about the programs that cost hundreds of billions, not millions, with projections for future savings.

I care about a program that involves the government registering every citizen with a government issue ID in order to vote. It's obviously the point where your libertarianism breaks down in favour of partisan politics, and where my liberalism merges into libertarianism when it's not corrupted by silly right wing political hackery.

Would you support government registration of your fingerprints and iris scans as part of the ID card you want?

the world is in greater peril from those who tolerate or encourage evil than from those who actually commit it- Albert Einstein

Phatscotty wrote:government size is not the issue. voting accuracy is. I reject flat out your attempts to try to make this an issue about the size of government. Gov't will do their primary functions, and yes that costs money. You can't paint me into an Anarchist who wants no gov't

If you really cared about government size, you would be harping about the programs that cost hundreds of billions, not millions, with projections for future savings.

I care about a program that involves the government registering every citizen with a government issue ID in order to vote. It's obviously the point where your libertarianism breaks down in favour of partisan politics, and where my liberalism merges into libertarianism when it's not corrupted by silly right wing political hackery.

Would you support government registration of your fingerprints and iris scans as part of the ID card you want?

then you have a problem with the concept of voter registration, not voter ID, and certainly not with me or the people of Minnesota

thegreekdog wrote:Just checking in. Appears there is still no evidence that a lack of voter identification laws leads to voter fraud. Talk to you guys in a couple of pages.

Aye, at least there's one libertarian still hanging on to to the idea that more government oversight on voting rights is a bad solution to a non-existent problem.

I think you should look at it a different way - Phatscotty isn't actually a libertarian. If he's how you would define a libertarian, you'd also be incorrect.

I can deal with that. I don't care what anybody tries to call me or what they think I am. Perhaps it is time to accept that I actually am an overall Independent, and you will always have a hard time trying to pin whichever label is convenient at the time to label me with and then use to bash me with.

thegreekdog wrote:Just checking in. Appears there is still no evidence that a lack of voter identification laws leads to voter fraud. Talk to you guys in a couple of pages.

Aye, at least there's one libertarian still hanging on to to the idea that more government oversight on voting rights is a bad solution to a non-existent problem.

I think you should look at it a different way - Phatscotty isn't actually a libertarian. If he's how you would define a libertarian, you'd also be incorrect.

While I'm fascinated by the internecine politics of the already vague libertarians, perhaps your criticisms should be directed more toward Scotty and his libertarian party stuff- Ron Paul and the Tea Party. You seem a little bit on the fringe of mainstream US libertarianism.

the world is in greater peril from those who tolerate or encourage evil than from those who actually commit it- Albert Einstein

thegreekdog wrote:Just checking in. Appears there is still no evidence that a lack of voter identification laws leads to voter fraud. Talk to you guys in a couple of pages.

Aye, at least there's one libertarian still hanging on to to the idea that more government oversight on voting rights is a bad solution to a non-existent problem.

I think you should look at it a different way - Phatscotty isn't actually a libertarian. If he's how you would define a libertarian, you'd also be incorrect.

I can deal with that. I don't care what anybody tries to call me or what they think I am. Perhaps it is time to accept that I actually am an overall Independent, and you will always have a hard time trying to pin whichever label is convenient at the time to label me with and then use to bash me with.

Symm, the results are in. The things you bring up now have already been brought up many times many different ways. The only thing left now is....

thegreekdog wrote:Just checking in. Appears there is still no evidence that a lack of voter identification laws leads to voter fraud. Talk to you guys in a couple of pages.

Aye, at least there's one libertarian still hanging on to to the idea that more government oversight on voting rights is a bad solution to a non-existent problem.

I think you should look at it a different way - Phatscotty isn't actually a libertarian. If he's how you would define a libertarian, you'd also be incorrect.

I can deal with that. I don't care what anybody tries to call me or what they think I am. Perhaps it is time to accept that I actually am an overall Independent, and you will always have a hard time trying to pin whichever label is convenient at the time to label me with and then use to bash me with.

Symm, the results are in. The things you bring up now have already been brought up many times many different ways. The only thing left now is....

SCOREBOARD!

Well, you certainly seem to agree with you.

the world is in greater peril from those who tolerate or encourage evil than from those who actually commit it- Albert Einstein

thegreekdog wrote:Just checking in. Appears there is still no evidence that a lack of voter identification laws leads to voter fraud. Talk to you guys in a couple of pages.

Aye, at least there's one libertarian still hanging on to to the idea that more government oversight on voting rights is a bad solution to a non-existent problem.

I think you should look at it a different way - Phatscotty isn't actually a libertarian. If he's how you would define a libertarian, you'd also be incorrect.

I can deal with that. I don't care what anybody tries to call me or what they think I am. Perhaps it is time to accept that I actually am an overall Independent, and you will always have a hard time trying to pin whichever label is convenient at the time to label me with and then use to bash me with.

Symm, the results are in. The things you bring up now have already been brought up many times many different ways. The only thing left now is....