One of the moments that led to the decline of the WWF is close to its second anniversary: Vince going out to the ring on RAW and babbling for the first 15 minutes that people should vote on the night before the US election. Now, we are two weeks away from this scenario repeating itself at the RAW in Boston, and the big question has to be: Does Vince push the Get out and Vote WWE Good Public Relations BS on us yet again, further alienating the fan base. And remember, Vince was not involved in any storyline at the time, except perhaps the genetic jackhammer at home, so his not being around recently would not be a detriment to him doing this again.

1- How does making what is basically a public service announcement alienate the fan base? Would you rather be served up some more necrophilia storylines? Or maybe Tommy Dreamer should eat strange things again? Or, I know, two Samoans can stiff people and put them in the hospital legit some more. Maybe have some not-ready Tough Enough students in the ring?

2- ... you know, the margin of victory was so slight last time in Florida, and that decided the overall election... you never know if the WWE actually DID sway the results... so they'd be fools not to do it again.

Well, let's see. In that vote campaign, they managed to get several HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS of people to sign up. But to make your argument sound a little better, we'll underestimate how many signed. We'll say 100,000 -- instead of the hundreds that were verified by the US Gov't in their follow-up confirmation.

If it was only 100,000... that's still a lot of people who are going out of their way to sign the damn thing. I don't see what you're complaining about. Switch the channel if you don't like Vince talking. Hell, that's what I do. I don't come here and complain about it. Your point about it alienating viewers is factless. What makes you think the drop in viewership is derived solely from THIS?

If anything, the HUNDREDS of *THOUSANDS* of signatures means that people are going out of their way to show their support. That right there is proof against your point. What exactly is your point other than to try (unsuccessfully) to slam Vince?

I don't like him either, but who gives a rat's ass if you feel like he's "alienating" you by showing his support for voter turn-out? You're one person. Obviously, the WWE is gathering a lot of support.

I have to agree with Chill there.... A segment about Vince pimping the right to VOTE won't turn off viewers. People won't sit back a year from now thinking "what a stupid segment... that WWE is garbage..." It's harmless, and encourages voting.

Originally posted by redsoxnationOne of the moments that led to the decline of the WWF is close to its second anniversary: Vince going out to the ring on RAW and babbling for the first 15 minutes that people should vote on the night before the US election.

WTF kind of logic is this. This, led to the DECLINE of the WWF? Are you truely stupid, or just stoned or something? Reall, I dont get it. They had a few MONTHS of pimping the Smackdown your Vote campaign. Not TWO WEEKS as we have now. Get a clue please.

I'm used to muting most non-Kurt Angle 15 minute promo segments anyway, so I'd just go grab a bite to eat like I always do, and keep watching upon the successful scrounging of cooked bird meat and ale.

I'd have to disagree with this logic. While it may seem like a good source for debate, I think the publicity stunt to gain legitimacy, respect, and accolaides from politicians is not directly the reason for the WWE's downfall. There are several better factors that would better explain the gaffe that led to the WWE's decline.

The factor I believe that was the direct catalyst was that moment when Vince walked off tv to let Stephanie run the show. This occurred after Vince's match with Triple H at Armegeddon 1999 and Stephanie turned on dear ol' daddy. Stephanie wasn't ready and people began to watch the shows less because she and Triple H took over every episode. It got boring and tiresome. People began to turn away.

Throw in WCW's and ECW's failures with Vince in a hurry to overstock his roster, forcing a roster split... The failure of the XFL... The lawsuits, particularly the one that caused him to lose his company name... and the exodus of Steve Austin and Mick Foley who are fan favorites... Rock's interest outside the ring... Poor writing..

So many things that you can't focus on one. Whatever the case, I think they all began shortly after Armegeddon 1999.

Let him pimp a 'Get out the Vote' campaign on Raw. It might be the most entertaining segment of the night.

These commercials are superfine because they pay for the production costs of putting CHRIS MOTHERFUCKING BENOIT on my GODDAMN TV SCREEN! I will GO GREYHOUND! I am thinking OUTSIDE THE BUN! – Dean Rasmussen 8/1/2002 Smackdown Workrate Report

I'd have to disagree with this logic. While it may seem like a good source for debate, I think the publicity stunt to gain legitimacy, respect, and accolaides from politicians is not directly the reason for the WWE's downfall. There are several better factors that would better explain the gaffe that led to the WWE's decline.

The factor I believe that was the direct catalyst was that moment when Vince walked off tv to let Stephanie run the show. This occurred after Vince's match with Triple H at Armegeddon 1999 and Stephanie turned on dear ol' daddy. Stephanie wasn't ready and people began to watch the shows less because she and Triple H took over every episode. It got boring and tiresome. People began to turn away.

Throw in WCW's and ECW's failures with Vince in a hurry to overstock his roster, forcing a roster split... The failure of the XFL... The lawsuits, particularly the one that caused him to lose his company name... and the exodus of Steve Austin and Mick Foley who are fan favorites... Rock's interest outside the ring... Poor writing..

So many things that you can't focus on one. Whatever the case, I think they all began shortly after Armegeddon 1999.

No way. The first six months of 2000 was one of the best stretches in WWF/E history. I'd say the real shark-jumping moment was when Triple H failed to turn face after the Kurt Angle storyline.

Originally posted by JaguarI'm sorry, I enjoyed the year 2000 in WWF wrestling tremendously.

-Jag

Personally, I did enjoy parts of 2000's wrestling, but I was talking about how things were dwindling in that year, leading up to now, where things are a little stagnant. I didn't say that 2000 was bad, as implied or misunderstood. I completely enjoyed the WWE during 2000, but the company began to fall into 'trouble' when Vince left to focus on other things.

Then I threw out things that happened SINCE 2000 to show how the ball rolled. Oh well...

Originally posted by TicamoThe factor I believe that was the direct catalyst was that moment when Vince walked off tv to let Stephanie run the show. This occurred after Vince's match with Triple H at Armegeddon 1999 and Stephanie turned on dear ol' daddy. Stephanie wasn't ready and people began to watch the shows less because she and Triple H took over every episode. It got boring and tiresome. People began to turn away.

Throw in WCW's and ECW's failures with Vince in a hurry to overstock his roster, forcing a roster split... The failure of the XFL... The lawsuits, particularly the one that caused him to lose his company name... and the exodus of Steve Austin and Mick Foley who are fan favorites... Rock's interest outside the ring... Poor writing..

So many things that you can't focus on one. Whatever the case, I think they all began shortly after Armegeddon 1999.

Absolutely not. Stephanie turning on Vince and joining HHH gave him enough heat that he could be turned into the main event heel for the WWF and be a legitimate World Champion and top star. Watching HHH and Stephanie didn't become boring and tiresome, because there was always the right balance and the writers knew how to keep them in check (a few weeks after they took over, the wrestlers went "on strike" to get Mick Foley back, and it was only a few months before Shane and Vince came back to balance the power).

All of the other stuff you list happened well after Armageddon '99. Rock's interest outside the ring, XFL, WCW and ECW failures, and Foley leaving all happened in 2001, and Austin leaving just happened a few months ago. So did the name change. None of that had to do with Vince going off TV for a relatively short time.

In fact, Armageddon '99 launched the company's hot run that finally ended at WMX-7... nothing since has been as good as the WWF's run between 12/99 and 4/01.

Personally, I think the downfall of WWE was put into motion when Stephanie was given the book circa SurSer 2000. I agree, though that, for whatever reason, things didn't start going downhill until after WM XVII. My own personal jump-the-shark moment for WWE was the night after. Austin had Rock down in the ring and HHH came down and confronted Austin, then they both jumped Rock. Surely, it would have made more sense for HHH to turn face then and start whaling away on Austin? Rock was leaving anyway so it's not like HHH would have had to share the spotlight of facehood with him for a few months.

Ok, I will take the minority opinion on tihs, HHH/Steph made the McMahon Helmsley era tough to watch, because they both suck the air out of anything the show tries to do. I mean 20 minute interviews before the show or even at the top of the hour or even during commerical breaks? I mean come on, it got tedious quick. And this stretch started from Armaggedon '99 to KOR 2000 when Foley came out as commissioner which was a great stroke of genius.

I can see why fans started to flip the channel during this time, but to counter what was on WWE was the worst Nitro ever, MNF was gone by this time. Of course, they had solid ratings they were only things to watch minus CBS, but they don't program for the demographic Raw has. I can understand why the people say from Armaggedon 99 to Wrestlemania XVII was the company's best stretch, because even though there was some competition, no one was tunning it out.

I would say Wrestlemania 2000 was part of the decline for the WWE, I know too many casual fans that were just pissed off over the ending and stopped caring after that. I do think Backlash: The Apology was a great step taken by the WWE to get Austin back for one night and have Rock finally winning the belt only to lose it a month later in the iron man match which saw the return of Taker and HBK. I do think this is one of the times the WWE listen to the fans and realized that if wanted to keep the fans happy, they had better end the McMahon/Helmsley era quick or at least give the fans some surprise is Austin, Taker and HBK. However, the angle itself was great, but I think HHH/Steph along with Vince, Shane and DX mugging for the cameras every five minutes was too much for people to take after awhile. As my friend pointed out this era had the best wrestling, but had the worst endings to all these sure-fire angles.

A Fan- Waiting for a DVD version of the McMahon/Helmsley era that doesn't center around HHH.