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Monday, 15 June 2015

NEW PLAN FOR CROSSRAIL BRINGS BACK THE DAME'S WARTIME MEMORIES

Following on from last week's rather interesting meeting of the "No Crossrail in Chelsea" campaign at Chelsea Old Town Hall the Dame's spies tell her that nefarious activity is once again afoot.

Word has reached the Dame that some of those opposing the station are no longer suggesting that Chelsea doesn't need a station, merely that it should go elsewhere. Not in their back yard, someone else's. We have been here before.

They are telling anyone who'll listen that the station should be relocated to the site of the old Chelsea and Fulham railway station, between the Kings Road and Fulham Road, just south of Stamford Bridge.

Being a bit of an old wartime bird the Dame does recall the old Chelsea and Fulham railway station. Nice as it was it was closed after being bombed in the war and never reopened.

Now the Dame doesn't know much about trains but those who do don't seem to think that this a particularly good idea.

The site is apparently too far to the west. TfL has previously rejected suggestions to locate the Crossrail 2 station near Imperial Wharf, claiming the route from Clapham to Victoria would then be too long and the curve of the line too great. A proposal where the line would end up even longer and the curve even greater would appear to have no legs.

And the old Chelsea and Fulham station was built upon long ago.

There is Council housing to the west of the railway line, the Wandon Estate in Wandon Road, and a private development to the east, the Kings development at 552 Kings Road. Given last summer's events any proposal that results in the loss of homes is risky at best, foolish at worst. It is only a matter of time before accusations of social cleansing and shipping people to Dagenham start to fly.

The Dame's spies are baffled as to why those who oppose the station don't stick to opposing the station, exactly as they had proposed at their meeting. That, at least, is a plan that all of Chelsea's residents might be convinced to support. Sneakily trying to stick it in someone else's back yard (again) isn't.

No surprises here. Three years ago the whole of the Lots Road area was leafleted by persons unknown. The leaflet told residents that they should really, really demand that the Crossrail 2 station be be built near the Lots Road power station rather than on the Kings Road. Many residents were less than impressed. A bit of sleuthing revealed who was behind the leaflet - much the same crowd who are behind the new "No Crossrail in Chelsea" campaign. Basically "anywhere but my back yard" would appear to apply.

Yes. They had been busy making pacts with Nick Pagett-Brown at a Chelsea Society a meeting in 2013 (Crossrail2debatechelseasociety) to place the station on The Cremorne estate and The Cremorne Gardens. No one was supposed to find out. Now they are asking for the Wandon Estate to be demolished. They should all hang their heads in shame.

I'm a campaigner, I didn't /don't want a station at Cremorne or the Fire Station, Could you confirm you agree? In fact confirm you agree you don't want Crossrail in Chelsea. You seem to be advocating divide and rule.

From the discussion at the meeting at Chelsea Old Town Hall it's pretty clear that it's not just the station they object to, it's also the tunnels under their homes.

Well to state the obvious - a station in Wandon Road, or even Lots Road, will still require the tunnels from there way to Victoria. And that means tunnels down/under much of the Kings Road, and under their homes.

A station at The Fire Station will mean that the tunnel will run under many of the homes that they planned to demolish in West Chelsea but that, would not concern those who do not consider the residents of SW10 to be part of Chelsea. They forget that we were here first. That most of us were born in Chelsea.That we are intrinsic to the fabric of this borough. That our families fought in the war, work locally and our children attend local schools.

The man holding the microphone at the meeting organised by the campaigners against a Crossrail 2 station at the Fire Station at Chelsea Old Town Hall spent the whole of the TFL consultations offensively telling frightened residents how their homes should be demolished because they were unworthy of living in Chelsea. This was preferable to the railway tunnel going under his home.

Nick Paget- Brown has publicly stated "Life long tenants and right to buy leaseholders are the biggest obstacles to middle bracket earners coming to live in Chelsea" It is common knowledge that middle bracket earners are inhibited from buying homes in Chelsea by the prices of property. Could it be that the council are looking for a way of removing social housing from Chelsea?

Absolutely nothing. It is for local residents to say what they want from the West London line. The No Crossrail in Chelsea campaign is about Crossrail. The people have spoken. The website has been changed accordingly.

SW10 wants a station but not in SW10 thank you very much. SW3 does not want a station at all (unless you are a property developer or on the committee of the Chelsea Society). So let's put the thing in Battersea where everyone does seem to want it.

22.08 SW3 are not proposing to build a station in SW10. The last thing real people living in SW3 want (ie people other than property developers or the Chelsea Society) is to see homes demolished and the borough being further depopulated. People in SW3 don't want a station at all. Not in SW3 or in SW10.

Dr Taylor stated at The Chelsea Old Town Hall meeting that Nick Paget-Brown had confirmed at a Chelsea Society meeting in September 2014 that he would look into the station being built in Chelsea West as an alternative to the Fire Station site. www.crossrail2debatechelseasociety. There was no outcry from SW3. No one told the residents whose homes were to be demolished. Everyone trusted that this would happen and Chelsea West would not find out. Now we learn that The Wandon Estate is being proposed. It will be demolished and it's residents displaced.

There was never a proposal for a Crossrail station at Chelsea fc by anyone. Greg Hands has written to the mayor proposing a Crossrail station at Imperial Wharf. We should be opposing any Crossrail station in Chelsea full stop and the diversion of the route here at a cost of £1.2bn.

Chelsea Fire Station has been the safeguarded for over 25 years and a station in SW10 was never on the cards until it was suggested to the Council at a meeting of the Chelsea Society in 2013 if nowhere else. Councillor Coleridge then wrote to Boris and set in motion the events of last summer.

I can't help but feel that had the consultation turned out differently, and TfL opted for a station on the site of the Cremorne Estate rather than the Fire station, that those on stage at Chelsea Old Town Hall two weeks ago couldn't have cared less, whether or not the result was the destruction of hundreds of homes and businesses and the displacement of thousands of the borough's poorer residents. The only "problem" is that it didn't.

Now if those who originally proposed a station in SW10 now want to propose no station at all, or perhaps even a station on a brown-field development in Battersea, then I will happily support them. But let us not pretend that was always the case. Someone proposed a station "further west" and it most certainly wasn't anyone living on the Cremorne Estate, World's End, Lots Road or, if this story is to be believed, on the site of the old Chelsea and Fulham railway station.

I suspect you're right. Fear of what the station would bring led to some very poor decisions. But let us move on and do what should have been done all along and campaign for no Crossrail station in any part of in Chelsea. We don't need it in either SW3 or SW10.

The Wandon Estate site is a non-starter. The length of the trains would not be able to take the steep curve to swing from a north-east direction from Wimbledon to Clapham Junction then turn north west to the Wandon estate, then swing due east to Victoria.

It's pretty clear from this article and thread that the "no" campaign really need to sort out their communications. They need to put out a consistent, simple and easy to understand message that everyone can support. At the moment they appear to be putting out a very mixed message that many residents, and particularly those living in SW10, clearly won't support.

A case in point: if the premise of this article is incorrect, and they haven't in fact been pushing the idea of moving the Crossrail station to the site of the old Chelsea and Fulham railway station, or anywhere else in SW10 for that matter, why has no-one been on here to point that out?

The campaign doesn't support that position. I have never proposed the demolition of homes nor would I.The campaign does not support the demolition of homes The campaign is about opposition to Crossrail in Chelsea.

This is misinformation. The route and the surface areas have been legally safeguarded don't try and mislead people. Its not vague, it was passed by Parliament in March 2015. We all need to oppose Crossrail anywhere in Chelsea - do you?

I live in SW3. The route doesn't go under my home. I oppose Crossrail in Chelsea because it will destroy the character of Chelsea. It will also make the lives of the people along the route in over 700 homes a misery. If you believe in Chelsea you would oppose a Crossrail route in Chelsea. we don't need it and none of us in either SW3 or SW10 deserve the disruption and blight. If you are interested in the well being of Chelsea and its residents you would oppose Crossrail in Chelsea - Do you?

Read the No Crossrail in Chelsea website. No Crossrail in Chelsea means No Crossrail in Chelsea - no route or station. No support for the loss of social housing from Crossrail either. Hopefully that is clear.

The website needs a serious clean up. It refers to both what happened before - the alleged promise by the Council to move the station to somewhere in West Chelsea - and what I assume is the latest campaign to have no station at all. This is confusing. If the aim of the current campaign is to have no station at all then push that line and ditch the rest.

Do you support Crossrail in Chelsea or oppose it? What have you got to hide? Nothing or something? That would be telling. Why don't you tell us ?There are multiple posts on the site asking people not to trust No Crossrail in Chelsea, but none of these posters say what they want. Is this a diversionary tactic or are they Crossrail supporters? None of them respond to the question so we must assume they support Crossrail. Genuine Chelsea residents would respond.

Personally I'm principally concerned about any potential scheming that aims to "kick the can" into SW10 again, whether that be on to the Cremorne Estate and Cremorne Gardens, the Wandon Estate or elsewhere.

The comment on the No Crossrail in Chelsea website is about the West London line not Crossrail. Chelsea fc are about to consult on the ground redevelopment. If a site for a station could be found in their land it would be a potential positive if it could be achieved without any loss of social housing. We don't need a Crossrail line or station in Chelsea.

17:49 Decent residents are against the demolition of all homes and business' for redevelopment purposes. Not just what you class as "social housing" . A great portion of this housing is privately owned.

If that excerpt on the website is indeed about the West London Line then it is in dire need of clarification because it doesn't actually say that at the moment. Unfortunately I believe TfL have already said "niet" to that particular suggestion - they don't want another station between Imperial Wharf and West Brompton as it would mess up with their timetable - so it's not particularly relevant either.

Why don't you go to the Chelsea fc consultation at the end of the month and see how they propose to deal with the extra 20,000 spectators?Nobody is hiding. Again do you support or oppose Crossrail in Chelsea?Don't be shy.

I will most certainly go along to see what is planned. However I would note that recent coverage of Chelsea's plans on both Sky News and the Telegraph don't mention a station at all, which would suggest that the previous claim that TfL had already discounted it has some merit.

You are pressurising politicians to construct a station elsewhere other than at The Fire Station because you are worried that it will diminish the value of your homes. You did not discuss this at the Chelsea Old Town Hall public meeting. You have not consulted or informed any residents in the vicinity or otherwise.

Does this sound familiar?

Oh yes, I forgot. You did the same thing in 2013.

As a result, hundreds of homes and dozens of business' were very nearly demolished.

You have to wonder if there is some misinformation going on here? Are the people criticising the campaign against Crossrail in favour of Crossrail? If so why don't they say? Or are they hiding something else?

Some residents are concerned that the campaign is not about not having a Crossrail station at all, but rather about simply not having it at the Fire Station and trying to convince the powers that be to move it somewhere else - SW10.

The campaigners proposed to the council for the station to be built on The Cremorne Estate in September 2013 at a Chelsea Society Meeting. This was then proposed to Boris in a letter by Councillor Tim Coleridge.

Dr. Taylor was most upset at The Old Town Hall meeting that it had not happened - "Nick Paget-Brown has gone back on his promise"

Hundreds of homes and business' were due to be demolished. Residents were not informed but found out due to a leaked letter from the TMO,

Now they are proposing a station on the Wandon Estate.

They can delete it from their website. We all saw it.

"A new station near the football ground will address West Chelsea"

If this is a reference to building a station in the Chelsea FC land as they are claiming on this blog why has this not been explained on the website instead of deleting it altogether?

Why was this proposal not discussed at their meeting at Chelsea Old Town Hall?

There is a full record of the meeting at the town hall. A "possible station near Chelsea fc" on the west London line was included in one of the speechs. No one raised this issue at the meeting. As the campaign is about Crossrail , the piece has been removed as it was confusing the issue. The campaign does not support a station in West Chelsea, it was reporting that this may be part of the Chelsea fc redevelopment plans.

Is there a full record of Dr.Taylor making an opening speech at the Chelsea Old Town Hall meeting in which he accused Nick paget-Paget Brown going back on his promise to these organisers to build a station on The Cremorne Estate at their request?

If you look at the report of the July 2014 consultation, most of the votes in favour of the Fire Station site were from in and around the Cremorne - its in the report in the geographical analysis. Dr Taylor was factually correct. Check the report for yourself. Its online.Dr Taylor said NPB had promised not to build on the Fire Station site and then changed his mind.We should all vote against a Crossrail station anywhere in Chelsea, wherever we live in Chelsea. Don't fall for divide and rule.

I have a copy of the report in front of me. The vast majority of responses in favour of no station at all were also from within Cremorne Ward. In fact the vast majority of responses were from Cremorne Ward full stop.

That was the result of the resident-led campaign to raise awareness of what was being proposed. It clearly succeeded in motivating those living near the proposed site of the "Chelsea West" station to respond, both those living in Cremorne Ward and those living in adjacent areas of Stanley Ward.

Dr. Taylor may not like the result, but there was no "tactical voting", merely lots of residents voting against a proposal they simply did not like.

As has been said elsewhere: a campaign against the station anywhere in Chelsea has a chance to convince and mobilise all residents. A campaign which focuses on the past and tries to apportion blame does not. Dr. Taylor would be wise to drop the arguments about "tactical voting" and concentrate on convincing all residents to support a campaign for no station in Chelsea.

Do we trust you? Are you against Crossrail in Chelsea or in favour? We'd all like to know. Maybe then we could trust. Come out in the open on Crossrail , or are you RBKC in disguise? RBKC were the ones to propose a SW10 station in 2013 in the letter from Coleridge to the Mayor which is on the Cremorne website.

15.37 if you read Gordon Taylor's comment posted at 12.06 today (3 hours before your post) you will know that the "No Crossrail in Chelsea" campaign is very much against having any Crossrail at all in Chelsea. If you read reports for example in K&C News 18th June edition just out today, or if you were at the Chelsea Town Hall meeting yourself, you will know that there is no way that this campaign group could ever in a month of Sundays be described as RBKC in disguise!

The comments made by the original contributor to this discussion are based on a misunderstanding. Let me set the record straight our group is absolutely and unequivocally AGAINST A CROSSRAIL2 STATION ANYWHERE IN CHELSEA.Any suggestion that any of us want to see houses anywhere in Chelsea demolished, let alone social or affordable housing, whether on the Cremorne Estateor elsewhere, is completely without foundation. On the contrary, the fundamental core of our protest is against any further destruction of Chelsea as we have known it, as place with a mixed community where ordinary people can afford to live and where the character of Chelsea is defended against intrusive and insensitive developmentGordon Taylor Co-Chair NO CROSSRAIL IN CHELSEA Campaign

I'm happy to come out in the open too, and to support totally what Gordon Taylor has written . Supporters of No Crossrail2 in Chelsea been supportive of e.g. the campaign to save the social housing units and fine old homes for working people in Sutton Dwellings; have been objectors to closure of theTrafalgar pub; have made it clear in discussions on Royal Brompton Hospital matters that we highly value all the people who work there, especially those in lower paid jobs, and would like to see them housed in Chelsea; and generally been thoughtful of the needs and interests of ALL Chelsea residents. I have personally welcomed all of our recent new residents at the foot of Dovehouse Street and next to the Fire Station, who can by no stretch of the imagination be described as selfish or wealthy Nimbys, and some of whom have already joined our petition; and last but not least I have explained politely to the author of the CRIST hand-out outside the June 2nd meeting that the thrust of its contents is massively and offensively wrong.

Not sure what you are asking : but for the avoidance of doubt I draw your attention what Gordon Taylor already posted today at 12:06. We do not want the destruction of any estate or anybody's home and we do not want a Crossrail2 station anywhere in Chelsea. All of Chelsea should stand together on this and not be fooled or distracted by efforts to divide us.

The message at the meeting was to oppose the route through Chelsea and a station anywhere in Chelsea (which does include SW10). I'm not sure which press coverage you refer to?No Crossrail in Chelsea means no crossrail anywhere in Chelsea and no Crossrail station anywhere in Chelsea. This should be a common cause for all the residents of Chelsea.

Cllr Paget-Brown, the Leader of K&C, has written in his blog on the Council website that he fully supports Cross Rail 2 and the terminal at the Fire Station. He says that the objectors are massively exaggerating the disruption that will be caused.

I sat through the whole of the meeting two weeks ago, right until the very end.

Those on stage, not all but some, spent an inordinate amount of time bemoaning the fact that the Council did not relocate the station to West Chelsea/SW10 as they were told to do. They also spent an inordinate amount of time suggesting that TfL's consultation was flawed when it was not. All households in the area were written to and asked to participate. That some residents completely ignored the letter and threw it in the bin is not TfL's fault, it's their own.

The press coverage in the local paper has been predominantly along those lines - the Council went back on their word by not relocating the station in West Chelsea as they promised, the TfL consultation was flawed (because, one assumes, it didn't produce the "right" result). I assume the reason all these things are appearing in the press is because those organising the campaign are actually saying them, or is someone about to claim that the press are just making stuff up?

Of course then we have then have the statements on Facebook, Streetlife and the like. All of these contain numerous comments from people who would clearly be more than happy for the station to be moved to SW10 irrespective of the consequences. They clearly do not care if hundreds of homes and businesses are demolished, they do not care if one of the free remaining green spaces in Chelsea is desecrated, they do not care if hundreds of Chelsea's poorer residents are forced to move. All of that is fine because it would save them from the Crossrail 2 station on "their bit" of the Kings Road.

Now, as a resident of SW10 I am happy to support your campaign against a station in Chelsea. However, whilst those running the campaign continue to send out "mixed messages" about precisely what they intend forgive me for being more than a little suspicious of the motives of some and questioning whether what you say is actually what you mean, and whether you might be saying something completely different when you believe no-one is looking.

Many residents could be convinced to support a campaign against a station in Chelsea.

However the majority of these campaigners have expressed in public as recently as two weeks ago that they are angry that the building of a station further west did not take place thereby the demolition of homes. That it was promised to them at a Chelsea Society meeting in 2013.

They cannot be trusted. Their objective is to relocate the station further west and have gone to our MP with this proposal.

Offering alternative sites to politicians is a way to ensure that it is not built on their doorstep.

I don't think any mixed messages are coming out of the No Crossrail in Chelsea campaign. That campaign wants no Crossrail in Chelsea.

If anyone is still suggesting a station in SW10 or at the fire station site they are not from the No Crossrail in Chelsea campaign.

Perhaps they are from the Chelsea Society who, as we all know, are not interested in preserving homes or buildings or the fabric of Chelsea as a place where real people live. The Chelsea Society have gone on record supporting Crossrail. But please don't confuse the No Crossrail in Chelsea campaign with the Chelsea Society.

I am one of the 4 Anti- Crossrail in Chelsea campaigners in Chelsea who was on the stage and spoke at the meeting on 2 June. Let there be no misunderstanding - our message is simple. WE DO NOT WANT A CROSSRAIL STATION IN CHELSEA AT ALL, WHETHER IN SW3 OR IN SW10. The area is already well served by 2 Tube stations within a few hundred yards of the proposed site and King's Road already has excellent bus services. The construction of a mass transit style station and line is not necessary or appropriate to the area and it would be a scandalous waste of public money. It was the Council who proposed that the station might be located in the Cremorne area and they rightly received massive opposition to that proposal. The Council's hastily revised position that there should be a station in place of the fire station has no justification either. Our campaign is No Crossrail in Chelsea. Please support our campaign.John Hicks

This is the second time in as many days that I have heard that "someone" is contacting people asking them to suggest alternative locations for the Crossrail 2 station. Now this could quite simply be incorrect, or it could be the Council at work, or those running the no Crossrail in Chelsea campaign, or perhaps even someone else. We will no doubt find out soon enough.

None of the campaigners have proposed a site for a Crossrail station in Chelsea during this campaign, nor are they going to. The only proposals for Crossrail stations are by TFL/RBKC and by Greg Hands at Lots Road / Imperial Wharf.

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