Re: Do you ever wish bourbon did not contain ethanol?

Re: Do you ever wish bourbon did not contain ethanol?

Originally Posted by CoMobourbon

If, on the other hand, you mostly just wish that you didn't get drunk so fast, that makes sense. But again (refer back to several posts in this thread), that pleasure effect of intoxication is totally inseperable from the immediate taste of the whiskey - that's just how the brain / human psychology works (Chuck seems to know a more impressive term for what I am talking about).

What science backs that up.

To clarify: yes I often wish the intoxifing effects could be blunted after about the third pour so that one can experience the same level of intoxication no matter how much one drank.

Removing the alcohol all together would result in a beverage that doesn't taste like whiskey because the alcohol is essential to its flavor. you wouldn't taste the same cogeners in its absence nor would you have the effect of bringing those flavor compounds all the way through your sinuses. Also the level of alcohol slows down consumption, not just because you'll get instantly blotto but because drinking something that's 50 percent alcohol like it was water would hurt your throught the same way chugging hot coffee would.

But you can't to be saying the state of intoxification is necessary. The first sip of this BT didn't taste like someone boiled off the alcohol. Sure, the second and third pour will prob go down easier because of the effects of the alcohol (its been a while I've been fighting a head cold) but it seems we are conflating two different things, things that are closely related, to be sure, but I still think there's much conflation going on, and I think Chuck is fueling it.

Re: Do you ever wish bourbon did not contain ethanol?

Originally Posted by ILLfarmboy

What science backs that up.

Removing the alcohol all together would result in a beverage that doesn't taste like whiskey because the alcohol is essential to its flavor. you wouldn't taste the same cogeners in its absence nor would you have the effect of bringing those flavor compounds all the way through your sinuses.

But you can't to be saying the state of intoxification is necessary.

This is complicated, so lots of clarifications are appropriate.

What I am saying: Pretty much what you are saying. Alcohol is integral to the experience of a whiskey in at least three ways: alcohol amplifies existing flavors; alcohol itself contributes a taste to the overall taste experience; alcohol acts on pleasure centers of the brain in a way that supersedes taste altogether.

What I am not saying: You have to be drunk to enjoy whiskey.

Altogether, removing the alcohol from a whiskey would fundamentally change the whiskey. One cannot meaningfully discuss the taste experience of alcohol without at least accounting for the many fundamental ways in which alcohol shapes and even defines that taste experience. So, the 'taste vs alcohol' dichotomy is a false one; the two are inextricably inter-related.

As for science, I am referring to the much researched and discussed positive relationship between dopamine levels and alcohol consumption.* In short, alcohol consumption has been proven to increase levels of a pleasure-associated neurotransmitter called dopamine in the brain. Increased dopamine indicates increased activity of pleasure centers in the brain. Thus, alcohol acts directly on the pleasure centers of the brain in much the same way that food and sex do. Here are a few links, but really, you could find as many as you want by Googling "alcohol AND dopamine".

Now, Chuck may not be talking about dopamine when he talks about the "psychoactive" effects of alcohol, but I think that essentially comes to the same conclusion: alcohol is an integral part of the whiskey experience, including the taste experience. After all, "taste" is a construct; who's to say where "taste" ends and dopamine effects begin, really?

*There are, of course, lots of other scientific explanations needed to really account for the total effect of alcohol on the brain. I am just picking this one because I am lazy and because I am not smart enough to either know or know how to lucidly convey the other ones.

Re: Do you ever wish bourbon did not contain ethanol?

wow, I'll have to bookmark those and read them later.

Thanks for the clarification.

The dopamine effect can explain a lot, like why a good special effects movie is better when you have a good solid buzz or why a little alcohol can make sex better or for that matter tedious people, like one's in-laws, less tedious.

Re: Do you ever wish bourbon did not contain ethanol?

Re: Do you ever wish bourbon did not contain ethanol?

Originally Posted by Alphanumeric

That is a reasonable sentiment. However, I find that my biggest issue lies with side-by-sides. Learning is a large part of the enjoyment for me. With whiskey, other liquors, and most of all cocktails, I like to perform comparisons constantly. With cocktails, there is only so small you can make them before your ratios become endangered. So if I want to compare three cocktails but have no desire to become intoxicated, I'm generally forced to dump a lot of liquid or find a willing associate to relieve me of my excess.