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Re: The Official What Are You Reading In 2012?

I've tried The Hobbit and the first Lord of the Rings book about 50 times, but I just can't get into them at all. I agree.

That's cuz the books aren't that good. If they came out today, they'd be blasted by critics and slashed by any editor.

The only thing that really kept the series alive (globally) before the movies, was their unfortunate popularity among European fascist groups, particularly the Italian fascists:

There is s sizable section of this interview which backs up my earlier evidence about how Tolkien is used by the far right. For example, the Heathen Front (some kind of long-since collapsed British organisation of right wing “volkists”) admired him as “racialist”, and he was also extremely popular on the far right in Italy. One far right movement even ran paramilitary youth groups called “camp Hobbits”, and infiltrated the Italian Tolkien Society in the 80s. The modern Italian far right developed from a rump movement that survived Mussolini, but it developed along very different lines – it eschewed the modernist futurism of pre-war fascism and instead developed a philosophy based on sacred fascism, in which a traditional and a modern world view are in constant conflict, with the traditional worldview slowly decaying but then reasserting itself. This decay is associated with a decline due to racial mixing and loss of religious strength. This ideology of the “sacred Right” is consistent with the themes in Tolkien’s work, and is a very common view across much modern extreme right thought – David Duke espouses it, it’s crawled all across the pages of Stormfront and the other far right websites[4], and the people who are closest associated with it also seem very likely to be Tolkien admirers. The links between the spiritual fathers of modern Italian fascism and Tolkien are well described in this essay

The books are well written, and imagined. None of them are well EDITED, which is the primary problem. What kept them alive is that, in the modern world, they basically gave birth to an entire genre of fiction.

"If your hand touches metal, I swear by my pretty floral bonnet, I will end you."

Re: The Official What Are You Reading In 2012?

Originally Posted by Bozidar

what a huge flaming paper bag full of nonsense.

The books are well written, and imagined. None of them are well EDITED, which is the primary problem. What kept them alive is that, in the modern world, they basically gave birth to an entire genre of fiction.

I kinda agree with you. They came out at the right time (pre-genre), so that people had less equivalent material to compare it to. That helps people overlook the major flaws somewhat- at the time.

It did help create "high-fantasy", but that has to come with some qualifiers. The books weren't entirely original. He fused Beowulf, The Republic, and The Bible. Besides borrowing the ring from Plato, a lot of the really ugly racialist thought derives from there as well.

As for the writing, here's what a highly regarded fantasy author has to say about the books:

Originally Posted by China Mieville

He deliberately tried to sound antique and 'epic'. Cliches constantly snuffle up to us like moronic dogs. Laughter comes in 'torrents', brooks 'babble', and swords never fail to 'flash'. The dialogue sounds faintly ridiculous, like opera without the music. Even 50 years ago this cod Wagnerian pomposity was stilted and clumsy. 'Fey he seemed,' says JRR - in Middle Earth, rare the clause is that reversed isn't.

The linguistic cliches are matched by thematic ones. The stories are structured by moralist, abstract logic, rather than being grounded and organic. Tolkien wrote the seminal text for fantasy where morality is absolute, and political complexities conveniently evaporate. Battles are glorious and death is noble. The good look the part, and the evil are ugly. Elves are natural aristos, hobbits are the salt of the earth, and - in a fairyland version of genetic determinism - orcs are sh*ts by birth. This is a conservative hymn to order and reason - to the status quo.

A lot of the stuff that makes these books less good, are what made them beneficial to very powerful forces that can often bury books, or in this case elevate them to legend status. Do you think guys like him and C.S. Lewis would've survived if instead of the overt Christianity, they had chosen to be hostile towards a major faith?:

Along with CS Lewis, author of the Narnia books, Tolkien was one of the 'Inklings', a group of Christian writers who met to discuss religion, history and fantasy.

At the end of the day though, some of the success is explained in simpler ways. A lot of people read High-Fantasy for escapism. They're willing to overlook A LOT if they react positively to the fantasy themes and worlds. Bad fantasy books can still have cult followings. The most recent example are the Eragon books.

Re: The Official What Are You Reading In 2012?

Originally Posted by Tupac

It did help create "high-fantasy", but that has to come with some qualifiers. The books weren't entirely original. He fused Beowulf, The Republic, and The Bible. Besides borrowing the ring from Plato, a lot of the really ugly racialist thought derives from there as well.

Not to mention borrowing the ring, the ending, the ugly racialist thought and a whole lot else from Richard Wagner. He left out the incest, though.

A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds, adored by little statesmen and philosophers and divines.

Re: The Official What Are You Reading In 2012?

Who knew! The woman who plays Elliot Stabler's wife on "L&O:SVU" is an author...my sister gave this to me to read over the weekend. All about the ending of her marriage after her husband leaves her for another woman...it was hard to read yet hard to put down as well. Very mixed feelings about it... I should've just stuck with my Elvis book which I am *STILL* reading.

Re: The Official What Are You Reading In 2012?

The Power of Double-Goal Coaching: Developing Winners in Sports and Life - Jim Thompson

Jim is the founder of the Positive Coaching Alliance. I got this at a clinic earlier this month. It is a great read for anyone who is coaching youth sports. Only about 70 pages and was a quick easy read.

Re: The Official What Are You Reading In 2012?

Last night I started and finished "Throw Them All Out" by Peter Schweizer. Talk about an eye opening book. Members of Congress trade stocks based on privileged information. they insert earmarks into bills to improve their own real estate holdings. Campaign contributors receive billions in federal grants and NOBODY GOES TO JAIL.

My entire life can be described in one sentence: It didn't go as planned and that's okay.

Re: The Official What Are You Reading In 2012?

Originally Posted by GiambiRocks

Last night I started and finished "Throw Them All Out" by Peter Schweizer. Talk about an eye opening book. Members of Congress trade stocks based on privileged information. they insert earmarks into bills to improve their own real estate holdings. Campaign contributors receive billions in federal grants and NOBODY GOES TO JAIL.

I would get too angry reading that book, but I agree with the title.

After the Hobbit (which is endless!) I'm gonna try The Greater Journey by David McCollough.

Re: The Official What Are You Reading In 2012?

There's something about Tolkien's writing that puts me to sleep. I should be able to fly through the 300 page Hobbit, but I find I can only read 9-10 pages before falling asleep.

He did write those books with the intention of putting his kids to sleep! Never read the Silmarilion(spelling) its like a copy of the old testament but for Middle Earth, it nearly drove me insane.

Currently I'm reading a book on Lord Horatio Nelson (good for weight lifting), I knew Emma Hammilton had a dodgy reputation but I never knew she was this much of a slapper!

Also reading Ken Dryden's 'The Game' which is one of the best sports biographies I've ever read. Although a Rangers fan I would urge anyone remotely interested in hockey to give it a go, it's like reading that HBO winter classic series.

Re: The Official What Are You Reading In 2012?

I want to read some Elmore Leonard. I've never read anything by him but I really like all the productions of his books in film/tv (Out of Sight/Justified/etc). Any suggestions where I should start with his books?

Re: The Official What Are You Reading In 2012?

Originally Posted by RhodyYanksFan

I want to read some Elmore Leonard. I've never read anything by him but I really like all the productions of his books in film/tv (Out of Sight/Justified/etc). Any suggestions where I should start with his books?

I read The Switch, which is the prequel to Rum Punch (Jackie Brown movie). A few of the same characters (Louis, Ordell, Melanie). Really enjoyed it.

Also read Cuba Libre and thought it would translate well to the movies.

Conservatives want live babies so they can raise them to be dead soldiers- George Carlin

Re: The Official What Are You Reading In 2012?

Originally Posted by RhodyYanksFan

I want to read some Elmore Leonard. I've never read anything by him but I really like all the productions of his books in film/tv (Out of Sight/Justified/etc). Any suggestions where I should start with his books?

I freakin' love Elmore Leonard. There have actually been a ton of movies made from his books over more than 50 years - he wrote the story "3:10 to Yuma," back when he used to write Westerns.

Almost everything he's written is worth reading, and starting off with Get Shorty or Out of Sight is just fine. Personally, though, I'd recommend starting with a couple of his 1980s novels - Stick and LaBrava are personal favorites, but also Freaky Deaky, Killshot, Split Images, Gold Coast, and whatever else. ( Except Touch, which is awful.) They're more than a little formulaic - usually involving someone who moved from Detroit to Miami or from Miami to Detroit - but all satisfying, fun, quick, reads. And I'm always in awe of his writing ability, where he strips everything down to bare essentials. Here are his ten rules for writers:

1. Never open a book with weather.2. Avoid prologues.3. Never use a verb other than “said” to carry dialogue.4. Never use an adverb to modify the verb “said” … he admonished gravely.5. Keep your exclamation points under control.6. Never use the words “suddenly” or “all hell broke loose.”7. Use regional dialect, patois, sparingly.8. Avoid detailed descriptions of characters.9. Don’t go into great detail describing places and things.10. Try to leave out the part that readers tend to skip.

Take Leonard’s conclusion seriously too: “My most important rule is one that sums up the 10: if it sounds like writing, I rewrite it.”

A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds, adored by little statesmen and philosophers and divines.