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@neorev
and
@eversonpoe
. you will both likely be pleased to know that I am about to finally begin watching this as one of my weekly evening shows this week. You've both set the bar pretty high expectancy-wise, so hopefully this will help tide me over until the Twin Peaks resurrection in May

I recently did a re-watch and forgot the disappointment I felt by the final season's pacing and how they did the last couple of episodes. It felt badly rushed toward the end as the well played out details they were able to expound upon in the early stages of the series just kind of took a back seat to getting the story wrapped up. But overall, superb series.

Watched the pilot episode of this last evening. It was compelling, but nothing great just yet. I've read many reviews stating how the pacing of this show is agonizingly slow and how you just have to hang with it and let it draw itself out over time, so I'm all in patience-wise. I don't know how I'll deal with this show just abruptly having its plug pulled when things begin to take off in the second season, as some of you have noted.

To be honest, Oz and The Wire have literally ruined most HBO series for me because almost nothing can compare to those two in my eyes. The Sopranos bored the shit out of me. Boardwalk Empire was amazing for its first three seasons and then slid into mediocrity for its final two. Even the mighty Deadwood, which I enjoyed, was often frustratingly blunted by its languid pace and propensity for being too complicated for its own good.

I'm looking forward to Westworld being released on blu ray and hopefully redeeming HBO's track record over the past ten years. I enjoyed what they were doing with Vinyl, and then they yanked that one too.

Has anyone here seen Six Feet Under? Is that series worth investing several years of my life into?

I recently did a re-watch and forgot the disappointment I felt by the final season's pacing and how they did the last couple of episodes. It felt badly rushed toward the end as the well played out details they were able to expound upon in the early stages of the series just kind of took a back seat to getting the story wrapped up. But overall, superb series.

To get the story wrapped up? HBO stopped the show after only 2 of 6 planned seasons. It was meant to be like a trilogy of books with 2 seasons making up a book. That's why the second season picks up speed like how a book starts moving along halfway through. The story wasn't wrapped up at all. Dan Knauf was at least nice enough to give us some info about the faiths of certain characters and what was to come. There was plenty of new characters to be introduced in the next four seasons. Plus he leaked the pitch document that explained a lot of the background.

But to say the second season was rushed to wrap up the story, I don't know about that because the story was not wrapped up at all. According to the creator, there was still 15 years to cover over the next 4 seasons. There are many questions left open, but perhaps that helps give the show everlasting greatness. You get some answers, but there's still enough to make you wonder and ask more questions.

Carnivale had one of HBO's largest audiences for its premiere that sadly dropped at the start of season 2, but actually grew again as the second season went on. I really do think a third season would have brought more people in. Hell, it still has a cult following after well over a decade and I'm constantly seeing new people discover and fall in love with the show only gutted to find it was axed early. One of HBO's biggest mistakes ever.

HBO can give me great shows like Game Of Thrones and Westworld, but Carnivale still hold that #1 spot in my book.

I don't want to spoil anything for new viewers, but the creator has posted some interesting things about the story that I got to copy and paste that will excite fans to learn from the man himself.

Is it like suspense-drama? Is the quality exceptional through all five seasons?

It's hard to put your finger on it, but the only real suspense you'll probably feel is when anything happens to one of the characters, since it's written so well that you really develop feelings for pretty much every character. You'll hate someone, then love them an episode later...

As for the quality, it never wanes, the writing was that solid. And as was mentioned, that ending. If anyone ever tells you it's not one of the top 3 last thirty minutes of a series, they're a fucking liar.

WARNING:
DO NOT READ THIS POST IF YOU HAVE NOT WATCHED AND/OR FINISHED THE SHOW!

Dan Knauf, the creator of Carnivale, recently took to Facebook to give fans a little more incite into what would have been in store for Season 3...

Somebody texted me and politely asked what I had in mind for S3 of Carnivāle. I decided to tell him. This is what I said:

"S3 would have started 4 years after the end of S2."

"Brother Justin's "Church of the Air" would be thriving, wielding vast political clout. Justin himself would be greatly diminished from his battle with Ben at the close of S2, suffering chronic physical and psychic pain."

"The real powers behind the throne would be his sister, Iris, and his wife, Sofie. Sofie has eclipsed Iris, however, and is the de facto queen of Justin's empire."

"But she harbors a dark secret: that her husband is, in fact, her father, having been the unholy product of his rape of Apollonia. The potential explosive effect of this truth is exacerbated by the fact that Justin and Sofie have a four year old son."

"Meanwhile Iris is sparing no expense, opportunity or effort to root out Sofie's secret in order to reassert control over her brother."

"We find Ben, also in a diminished state, living in the curtained alcove of Management's trailer. The Carnivāle troupe has been disbanded, the original cast scattered to the winds. Only Samson and Ben remain, working as itinerant performers for a 3rd rate carnival on the Southeast circuit."

"Ben is plagued by nightmares of the first atomic bomb test and premonitions of a Nazi-controlled America. calls Samson in and orders him to "find the others." They must resume the battle for the sake of mankind."

"And that's just the first ten minutes of the first episode. Is the child Justin's or Ben's? That remains to be revealed..."

Also, shortly after the cancellation annoucement, Mr. Knauff also let us know that Jonesy is not dead as well as the piece of the blade that broke off in Brother Justin would still be in him and leave him wounded in a diminished state while Ben would become more like Management trying to bring the pieces together. He also said he had 15 more years to cover with the 4 remaining seasons, hence why he turned down the idea of finishing the story in a movie in order to tie up loose ends. He didn't want to hurt the story trying to squeeze 15 years worth of story into a single movie. Marvel wanted to continue the story as a graphic novel series, but HBO blocked it. He also tried to get HBO to participate in Comic Cons back in the day before they were all the rage like they are today. He felt the show could grow an audience that way, but HBO was completely clueless about Comic Con and wouldn't go along.

Watched the second episode last evening. Much more going on than the premiere, which I suspected would be the case. I can see myself really enjoying this as it unfolds..

Trust me, the slowness is worth it. I never had an issue with the speed of the first season. It's one of the few shows where you just love all of the characters and care for them because they're given time to develop... the good and the bad guys.

This show had four big emotional moments for me over the two seasons where I wanted to almost cry. Whatever, I can admit it. I'm a man, shit made me well up. And that's because I had to time to care for these characters.

Trust me, the slowness is worth it. I never had an issue with the speed of the first season. It's one of the few shows where you just love all of the characters and care for them because they're given time to develop... the good and the bad guys.

This show had four big emotional moments for me over the two seasons where I wanted to almost cry. Whatever, I can admit it. I'm a man, shit made me well up. And that's because I had to time to care for these characters.

No shame in crying, bruh. I do it all the time myself. It's 2017, where hyper-sensitivity is the norm anyway..

I'm not attached to any of the characters yet (obviously), but none of them are anything less than interesting either. The only thing that annoys me about this show at the moment is the overtly-arcane dialogue and the stiffness in the way Clea Duvall delivers her lines whenever she's talking to her mother. I get that it's set in the 1930s and people talked with a different vernacular then, but any time they use a word or expression from the era, it comes across as forced and unnatural and it sticks out to me like a sore thumb.

Perhaps I was spoiled by the three seasons of Deadwood, where the dialogue and the vernacular of that era was executed flawlessly and was actually a driving factor of the storylines.

No shame in crying, bruh. I do it all the time myself. It's 2017, where hyper-sensitivity is the norm anyway..

I'm not attached to any of the characters yet (obviously), but none of them are anything less than interesting either. The only thing that annoys me about this show at the moment is the overtly-arcane dialogue and the stiffness in the way Clea Duvall delivers her lines whenever she's talking to her mother. I get that it's set in the 1930s and people talked with a different vernacular then, but any time they use a word or expression from the era, it comes across as forced and unnatural and it sticks out to me like a sore thumb.

Perhaps I was spoiled by the three seasons of Deadwood, where the dialogue and the vernacular of that era was executed flawlessly and was actually a driving factor of the storylines.

there's reasons that sofie talks to her mom that way that will become apparent as the show continues for you.

Carnivale has been on my watchlist for quite some time and I finally took the plunge. Loving it so far. I'm only 4 episodes in but I'm really into the story, the setting, the characters .. everything to be quite honest.
Guess you can't go wrong with any HBO programming.

Oz and The Wire have set some titanic standards for me, as far as how great a television series can be and what I expect others to rise to to the level of. I'm hoping other HBO shows I'm about to start in on, like Westworld and Six Feet Under, are able to live up to those standards.

Carnivale has been on my watchlist for quite some time and I finally took the plunge. Loving it so far. I'm only 4 episodes in but I'm really into the story, the setting, the characters .. everything to be quite honest.
Guess you can't go wrong with any HBO programming.

Yeah, it's a beautifully shot and very detailed show even though it's set in such a horrible and bleak period of time. I own both seasons on DVD and would rebuy them in a heartbeat if HBO decided to release them on Blu-ray. Shame HBO doesn't give this show the respect it deserves. The only way to watch it in HD is on HBOGo.

Originally Posted by NYRexall

Oz and The Wire have set some titanic standards for me, as far as how great a television series can be and what I expect others to rise to to the level of. I'm hoping other HBO shows I'm about to start in on, like Westworld and Six Feet Under, are able to live up to those standards.

I only made it to around the first quarter of Season 2 of Oz. I thought it was alright. I do want to finish it one day. I haven't seen The Wire, the premise just never interested me.

I only made it to around the first quarter of Season 2 of Oz. I thought it was alright. I do want to finish it one day. I haven't seen The Wire, the premise just never interested me.

P.S. I absolutely love The Sopranos.

I've seen everything up to the sixth season of the Sopranos. Too languorous and slow-paced for my liking. It wasn't a bad show by any means, but it wasn't worthy of the immense hype it recieved, imo

The Wire is similarly slower-paced, but is so well-written with how each season unfolds with each episode that it becomes compulsive by about the third season. I'm currently in the middle of the fourth season and it gets more gripping with each new episode. I can see Carnivale mining a similar vein..

Oz is just something else entirely for me. I never thought a show would grip me the way The Shield or Breaking Bad did, but this one is nothing short of amazing. I don't think I've ever been so fascinated by an ensemble cast on a show in my life; not even Twin Peaks. And the characters on this show -- the best ones -- are so bad, but so well-written and suitable for the plotlines unfolding. Like
@elevenism
touched in the official Oz thread I started, there's this palpable sense of doom to this show that nothing good is going to come out of this saga by series' end, and -- much like the Shield and Breaking Bad -- it only enthralls me more with each new episode.

The Part of Texas Where Motherfuckers Actually Wear Cowboy Hats and Whatnot

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Originally Posted by NYRexall

Oz and The Wire have set some titanic standards for me, as far as how great a television series can be and what I expect others to rise to to the level of. I'm hoping other HBO shows I'm about to start in on, like Westworld and Six Feet Under, are able to live up to those standards.

Westworld, imo, is utterly fucking breathtaking. It plays with your mind in a way I've never really seen done before and makes me feel like we're living in a golden age of television. I can't recommend it enough. Then again, our tastes aren't exactly the same so I can't GUARANTEE you'll like it, but I seriously believe it's something really special.

As for Carnivale, one of you guys told me to check it out a couple of years ago but I only watched one episode. Sounds like it's time to give it another shot.

Westworld, imo, is utterly fucking breathtaking. It plays with your mind in a way I've never really seen done before and makes me feel like we're living in a golden age of television. I can't recommend it enough. Then again, our tastes aren't exactly the same so I can't GUARANTEE you'll like it, but I seriously believe it's something really special.

I've heard nothing but overwhelming praise for Westworld from everyone I've talked to who's seen it. I'm pretty sure I will enjoy it because the premise already intrigues me and there are a ton of actors in it that I enjoy watching. Will wait for the first season to be released on Blu-ray and then let it unfold over a ten week period, syndication-style.

Carnivale already has my interest piqued after only two episodes, and the praise for it here from Everson and Neo has been high-end. Those dudes have never steered me wrong, so I'm just being patient and letting the saga unfold naturally. That seems to be the point of the show anyway..