Comments for The Manna and the Stonehttp://themannaandthestone.org
A Theological and Practical Journal of Bible PresbyteriansMon, 03 Apr 2017 19:53:41 +0000hourly1https://wordpress.org/?v=4.9.4Comment on Pence and a Raging Hypocrite by The Bible Presbyterian Blog | Providencehttp://themannaandthestone.org/2017/04/03/pence-and-a-raging-hypocrite/#comment-12
Mon, 03 Apr 2017 19:53:41 +0000http://themannaandthestone.org/?p=517#comment-12[…] I just wanted to link this site to a new site, where I’ve picked up blogging with some Bible Presbyterian brethren. Here’s the newest piece on Vice President Pence. […]
]]>Comment on A Tale of Two Prophets by The Flowering of the Faiths – The Manna and the Stonehttp://themannaandthestone.org/2017/03/13/a-tale-of-two-prophets/#comment-11
Tue, 28 Mar 2017 14:09:04 +0000http://themannaandthestone.org/?p=496#comment-11[…] across Mesopotamia and into India. Christianity and Islam developed quite differently, even as they began quite differently. This article offers a bird’s-eye view of the growing dominion of these two […]
]]>Comment on Conversations – 11/4/16 by Conversations – 12/16/2016 – The Manna and the Stonehttp://themannaandthestone.org/2016/11/04/conversations-11416/#comment-10
Fri, 16 Dec 2016 16:23:31 +0000http://themannaandthestone.org/?p=318#comment-10[…] is another Mortification of Spin podcast which follows up on a situation we mentioned in a previous Conversations concerning Anthony Esolen, a Catholic professor at a Catholic university. I mention this podcast […]
]]>Comment on Conversations – 11/18/16 by Tim Prussichttp://themannaandthestone.org/2016/11/18/conversations-111816/#comment-9
Fri, 18 Nov 2016 22:26:41 +0000http://themannaandthestone.org/?p=346#comment-9Good pickings. I loved the “You know who you are” line to the Libertarians!
]]>Comment on The Days Ahead by Christian Mastilakhttp://themannaandthestone.org/2016/11/09/the-days-ahead/#comment-8
Sat, 12 Nov 2016 00:37:57 +0000http://themannaandthestone.org/?p=327#comment-8A clarification and apology:

I DO NOT believe that every third party vote is narcissistic. For me, given my purpose for voting, it would be a pointless vote just to make me feel good about myself. I consistently used the first person in my post, but I wasn’t explicit about the limits of my claim.

If you have a different purpose for voting — for example, if you believe voting is an expression of political sentiment, or moral approval of a candidate or party — then you surely ought to vote your conscience. And I would not consider such a vote narcissistic but rather entirely appropriate.

I fully accept that people have different purposes for voting. Reasonable people will disagree.

My last post was not very clear about that. I’m sorry for writing in such as way as to sound like I’m accusing every third-party voter of narcissism. That’s not my belief nor my intention, and I ask your forgiveness.

Christian

]]>Comment on The Days Ahead by Christian Mastilakhttp://themannaandthestone.org/2016/11/09/the-days-ahead/#comment-7
Fri, 11 Nov 2016 01:51:22 +0000http://themannaandthestone.org/?p=327#comment-7I don’t vote to make a political statement, for the same reason a tree falling in a deserted forest doesn’t make a sound. I vote to affect probabilities among feasible outcomes. If I’d voted for, say, the Constitution Party candidate, then he’d have gotten 7 votes instead of 6 at my polling place. (Or some similarly low number of no consequence.) Who would’ve heard my statement, so self-righteously made? Me, and only me. That’s narcissistic self-expression, which I usually reserve for my blog comments, not my voting.

I’m not actually defending Trump so much as I’m disclaiming responsibility for the lack of attractive political choices handed to me by the GOP and DNC. You put that responsibility on me; but I won’t wear it, and I explained why.

That said, I don’t agree in the slightest that Trump’s boorish (but probably empty – let’s face it, I’m not giving him all that much credit) boasting is anywhere near as bad as actually committing physical violence against someone, or defending someone who has. Unlike the snowflake generation, I can tell the difference between (1) unwholesome words that ought to be dismissed as inconsequential bloviating and (2) actual bad acts. So I voted for the boor to try to keep the despicable criminal out of office. Not that hard a decision at the end of the day, and I sleep on it like it’s memory foam.

As for corporate guilt, go ahead and assign it where you will. It won’t make me no nevermind. (You won’t be surprised.) I have enough of my own actual failings. I’m not going around collecting others’ unhappy providences to mingle with my real sins to carry to the cross.

]]>Comment on The Days Ahead by Jason Waeberhttp://themannaandthestone.org/2016/11/09/the-days-ahead/#comment-6
Thu, 10 Nov 2016 13:38:25 +0000http://themannaandthestone.org/?p=327#comment-6I’ll keep my response minimal here, partially because I’m actually working on a longer article about morality and voting, so hopefully that will be useful when it comes out. Just a few things.

First, I actually laughed when I read that you’re going after Hillary for being a “protector of a sexual predator husband.” Do you realize who the man you’re defending is? He can barely get on stage without bragging about his sequal conquests, infidelities, and exploitation of women.

Your entire post assumes that the only acceptible vote is a vote for one of the major party candidates – that’s just simply untrue. Not voting is a political statement. Voting third party is a political statement. All of these say “the major party candidates are completely unacceptable,” which is precisely what must be said in this situation.

“Though they know God’s righteous decree that those who practice such things deserve to die, they not only do them but give approval to those who practice them.” -Rom 1:32

This does not mean that we can only vote for perfect people, but when one looks at a man like Donald Trump, whose entire brand is built upon evil, arrogance, greed, sex, who stands up in front of us saying he has nothing of which to repent – he is a moral poison which should have absolutely made Christians recoil in revulsion. When we give merely a backhanded dismissal of his “faults” before proceeding to justify him on a thousand points of “political pragmatism,” we are guilty of giving our approval to evil.

I’m not willing to say that voting for Donald Trump is sinful. I know it would have been for me, as my conscience would condemn me. I am willing to say that much of the embrace of Donald Trump by the evangelical community in dismissing his toxicity as mere “character flaws” and pretending that vices are virtues is sinful. We should be crystal that we are not approvers of evil. We have not been.

Also, if you don’t believe that there’s such a thing as corporate guilt, I’ll just mention that the passage below was directed to NT Jews:

“Therefore I send you prophets and wise men and scribes, some of whom you will kill and crucify, and some you will flog in your synagogues and persecute from town to town, so that on you may come all the righteous blood shed on earth, from the blood of righteous Abel to the blood of Zechariah the son of Barachiah, whom you murdered between the sanctuary and the altar. Truly, I say to you, all these things will come upon this generation.” -Matt 23:34-36

If we consider the voices coming from the evangelical community approving of this evil man as coming from our brothers in Christ, there is a sense in which we all bear the guilt. May God be merciful to us.

]]>Comment on The Days Ahead by Christian Mastilakhttp://themannaandthestone.org/2016/11/09/the-days-ahead/#comment-5
Thu, 10 Nov 2016 04:39:17 +0000http://themannaandthestone.org/?p=327#comment-5I don’t have time to learn how to make a post, find a picture, etc. So I’ll leave this as a comment.

I fully agree that we must face the future honestly. That would be true no matter who was elected. And one of the many practical blessings of the One True Faith is its help for adherents in facing unhappy truths openly. We can face the death of unsaved loved ones and still worship our omnipotent God; we can face a disappointing slate of candidates.

As for the idea that the church somehow owns Trump because believers voted for him, the kindest way I can put it is: “Come off it; that’s [hogwash].” I don’t need to repent in sackcloth and ashes for the choice I faced any more than Rahab had to own the fact that spies showed up at her door.

The fact that no better man than Donald Trump arose to champion our cause *in the political arena* is a result of the political processes of the two feasible political parties, not a result of the church. I suppose, generally, the nation’s lack of godliness is partly due to the church’s lack of evangelism. But the GOP & Dem machines are never ever going to be oriented toward promoting anything other than GOP & Dem electoral success. Those parties seek their own self-interest. Christians ought not be confused about that reality or expect those parties to represent us.

There are better men than Trump all throughout the church in the US. Were that not the case, then we ought to repent in sackcloth and ashes. But the fact that we can’t influence the political machines more to our liking isn’t something I need to own. Psalm 2 makes it clear that kings and rulers set themselves against the Lord and His Anointed. I can’t make that not happen.

So what are we to do? Passages like Deuteronomy 22:8 and Exodus 21:29 tell me that we’re responsible for foreseeable outcomes of even those events that aren’t our fault. When I made voting decisions in the general election, there were two foreseeable outcomes. Either Hillary Clinton or Donald Trump would be elected president. Because I live in Ohio (and not, say, Kentucky, whose outcome was certain), my vote has some impact on the probability of those outcomes.

Hillary Clinton is a known liar, bribe-taker, criminal, protector of a sexual predator husband, attacker of victims of abuse, incompetent office-holder, power-hungry, narcissistic leech, who has overseen a corruption empire spanning government, the media, international donors, a phony charitable foundation and an entire political party, but who tries to put on a reputable, reasonable public face. (“I go, sir,” but he did not go.)

Donald Trump is a sexually immoral narcissist who publicly plays the uncouth buffoon. But for all his coarse jesting and idle talk, not one credible shred of evidence about corruption or criminality came from all the opposition research done by the Dem-Media-GOP elite-Kristol-DOJ complex. Yes, he’s personally a moral failure. So is the other candidate with a chance of being elected. Trump has yet to demonstrate corruption in public office. Clearly, he’s the less-bad choice for a public political office.

So, the foreseeable outcomes *given to me by political parties* are to increase the likelihood of either Hillary Clinton or Donald Trump getting elected. I don’t own that, and I won’t own that. The parties own that.

I could’ve voted for a different candidate – someone who is a credibly professing Christian and a decent person. But the foreseeable outcome would be to increase the likelihood of Hillary Clinton being elected. I don’t have to own the fact that a vote for someone else would’ve done that, and I won’t own it. The parties own that.

I can face the reality, and I can choose to act in the only way that might contain the ox that is accustomed to goring people in the past. I can face, with the full force of Christian faith, the sad reality that President Trump will likely be dissatisfying. But I don’t have to own it like I’ve done something wrong. The people running the political system and defining the choices they give the nation, including Christians, will face God’s judgment for their own use of their time and talents.

You may call this “political pragmatism.” Maybe it is. But I strongly disagree that I bear any moral responsibility for what was on the ballot. The parties own that.

As for Mr. Trump and Mrs. Clinton, Huma Abedin, Anthony Weiner, Barack Obama, and anyone else who needs it, I pray the Lord converts the lot of them.

]]>Comment on The Days Ahead by Tim Prussichttp://themannaandthestone.org/2016/11/09/the-days-ahead/#comment-4
Thu, 10 Nov 2016 00:18:16 +0000http://themannaandthestone.org/?p=327#comment-4Good thoughts. We must orient ourselves to the coming storm. Thank you.
]]>Comment on Who is the Church Service for? by Jason Waeberhttp://themannaandthestone.org/2016/10/26/who-is-the-church-service-for/#comment-3
Wed, 26 Oct 2016 20:33:01 +0000http://themannaandthestone.org/?p=285#comment-3I absolutely agree – I actually think that’s very much in line with the image Paul gives of unbelievers coming in to see believers exhorting each other. We should be a community defined by joy, and that joy should be shown to our brothers and sisters, as well as the outsiders who see us. I do believe that this attractional ministry needs to be balanced by a fairly strident declaration of sin and judgment. Unfortunately, we tend to collapse the way we do ministry into only one of those attitudes, instead of keeping them in tension.
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