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LOL! I'm pretty sure we're not disagreeing on most points. If you read the first and last paragraphs of my post, our posts sound almost identical.

My point, among others, was that not everybody is you and me. Most people could easily become like you and me, and I agree that many horse sellers underestimate how close they are to being able to make a decent video. But that sense of resourcefulness, that spirit of "I can do this if I just Google a few clarifying points," is not something that's automatically built into everyone's ontology. I used to think it was. Then I started teaching digital composition. I have many students who are resourceful in other areas of their lives, but it hasn't occurred to them to have that attitude toward digital composition. I'd say the same is true for many horse sellers.

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ha! I am SO GLAD my horse didn't have a video of himself online. Because I don't think I would have been able to get him fast enough! I bought mine from a Craigs List ad "TB Eventer - $3500" with a photo of the horse going nicely over a BN jump. No mention of size, age, sex, training level (I guess I could see the jump) or much of anything. So I called and asked for a video and they sent me his professionally produced dvd from AECs, complete with him getting a ribbon, so we jumped in the car and RAN up to see him and bought him on the spot. HAHAHA Greatest horse ever, too.

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An Amish friend once asked me to advertise a riding/driving pony on the internet. Several people loved his pictures and asked for a video. So I had to go back to my friend, tell him he had some interest, but we needed a video- of course the Amish kids were not permitted to be filmed- so I had to put my own (non-riding) son on the pony and try to do the best we could. The pony was such an angel- as I was filming my son on him I whispered to my husband, "Are you seeing what I am seeing?" My husband said, "Yes, I know. I know." So then I had to go back to my friend with my hat (and video camera in my hand) and tell him that even though I had already told him there were several potential buyers... I wanted the pony and I wanted him to come down on the price a little. How humiliating. Horsetrader fail.

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An Amish friend once asked me to advertise a riding/driving pony on the internet. Several people loved his pictures and asked for a video. So I had to go back to my friend, tell him he had some interest, but we needed a video- of course the Amish kids were not permitted to be filmed- so I had to put my own (non-riding) son on the pony and try to do the best we could. The pony was such an angel- as I was filming my son on him I whispered to my husband, "Are you seeing what I am seeing?" My husband said, "Yes, I know. I know." So then I had to go back to my friend with my hat (and video camera in my hand) and tell him that even though I had already told him there were several potential buyers... I wanted the pony and I wanted him to come down on the price a little. How humiliating. Horsetrader fail.

Did you get the pony???

** Tact is the ability to tell someone to go to hell in such a way that they look forward to the trip. ~Winston Churchill? **

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If a seller doesn't want to provide a video, move on to another horse. Not everybody thinks the world should go around they way you do. You, with wad of cash, cannot control some anonymous person who lists a horse for sale. You can call them lazy, stupid, or whatever amuses you. But I am not sure what that accomplishes.

If they don't provide a product you want, I am sure you can find another. You say it is so easy to make videos, so I am sure there are 1000 other horses for sale with nice videos to make you happy. Why abuse anonymous sellers? What does it get you?

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Retread, I'd say half of the most interesting horses I've sat on (including a few I really wanted but who then flunked the vet) are not to be seen in any competition. They are...3...or just got restarted after a family crisis left them standing in a field...or in a different discipline entirely (so really, not practical to spend your life wandering around to all different types of competitions)....
When I have had the chance to see a horse competing I have done whatever I needed to do to be there -- totally agree it is a thousand times better than video...
but it leaves out an AWFUL lot of interesting possibilities.

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Isabeau, why does this upset you so much? I'm not "abusing" anyone. It's just that having sold a horse recently, I know how much buyers appreciated the video (whether to rule my horse out, or to decide to come see him). Now that I am spending ALL my free time going to see horses, I very much appreciate the ability to do some pre-qualifying by video.

My initial rant, which I honestly posted just out of exasperation, was actually more pointed towards BAD video than NO video. When someone says they don't HAVE video, mostly I just move on politely unless the horse is quite close, has a show record, is from a known source, etc. I simply don't have the time to wander the Eastern Seaboard on the off chance that a horse someone I don't know says is "X" is, in fact, "X."

What I truly don't understand is why people send out these videos that are old, 7 seconds long, impossible to tell what horse is doing, etc. That was really what I was complaining about. I am not trying to "get" anything. I just found it frustrating. Sorry it bothers you so much.

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Isabeau, why does this upset you so much? I'm not "abusing" anyone. It's just that having sold a horse recently, I know how much buyers appreciated the video (whether to rule my horse out, or to decide to come see him). Now that I am spending ALL my free time going to see horses, I very much appreciate the ability to do some pre-qualifying by video.

My initial rant, which I honestly posted just out of exasperation, was actually more pointed towards BAD video than NO video. When someone says they don't HAVE video, mostly I just move on politely unless the horse is quite close, has a show record, is from a known source, etc. I simply don't have the time to wander the Eastern Seaboard on the off chance that a horse someone I don't know says is "X" is, in fact, "X."

What I truly don't understand is why people send out these videos that are old, 7 seconds long, impossible to tell what horse is doing, etc. That was really what I was complaining about. I am not trying to "get" anything. I just found it frustrating. Sorry it bothers you so much.

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Now that I am spending ALL my free time going to see horses, I very much appreciate the ability to do some pre-qualifying by video.

My initial rant, which I honestly posted just out of exasperation, was actually more pointed towards BAD video than NO video. When someone says they don't HAVE video, mostly I just move on politely unless the horse is quite close, has a show record, is from a known source, etc. I simply don't have the time to wander the Eastern Seaboard on the off chance that a horse someone I don't know says is "X" is, in fact, "X."

What I truly don't understand is why people send out these videos that are old, 7 seconds long, impossible to tell what horse is doing, etc. That was really what I was complaining about. I am not trying to "get" anything. I just found it frustrating. Sorry it bothers you so much.

Just because you are spending all this time, does not mean the person on the other end is doing the same. I have responded to plenty of ads and not heard back from the person for weeks.

One one occasion I was told "well.... I placed the ad just before I went on vacation. I figured I'd wait for a bunch of replies to pile up before responding."

Not everyone out there is going to be in line with your personal agenda. And if they send old video, well that is what they have, and/or what they are willing to offer. So they are not as earnest as your are. That's all.

They are not evil, or stupid, or lazy, or dumb (as other posters have suggested.) They are just not on the same wavelength as you are.

I know plenty of sellers with horses available that can't find buyers with the money to spend. Go to any sales website, there are lots, and lots, and lots, and lots of horses for sale. Lots and lots of horses with video, who can't find buyers.

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I was just thinking of this very point (raised by asterix) about the fact that not all horses will have competition videos--for the reasons mentioned.

A good friend was looking at WB (and some TB) eventing prospects last year (all up and down the Eastern Seaboard), and her budget was five figures. She was looking at high quality youngsters (many who were being marketed at high-end breeding farms), and some of them had little or no video (which was a deal killer), or had U/S video, but only jumping video through the jumping chute--which was perfectly fine with her and much better than nothing, you can tell a lot from that (usually ;-))

She had to settle for evaluating them based on what she was able to see (and she ran them all by me to get my $0.2--fun for me, who got to live vicariously , as well as her trainer, when she was able to get him to spare a few moments to watch), but she definitely got a lot of information from the little bit of video that was provided--and was glad just to have it in the first place!

I think a decent video--especially in this day and age--should be pretty much a no-brainer when you are selling a high quality young prospect. It doesn't have to be directed by Steven Speilberg, but some ZOOMED IN (Huge pet peeve of mine, GRR!) and representative w/t/c footage of the horse--with a little bit of jumping if the horse jumps, is the least a buyer should expect of a seller. Not an unreasonable request, not an enormous chore, just "what the market expects"!

Unless they are just "not THAT interested in selling" (which my friend found out was sometimes the case; they wanted to advertise the horse to "get it out there" for people to see, but were in NO hurry to actually court buyers. :-/)

(Ironically, she wound up buying a young horse whose history and breeding is not officially known, who had some eventing experience--but who was kind of a "mystery" otherwise--and who she wound up seeing initially only because he was being kept at her trainer's barn for awhile while he was marketed, she tried him there! Sometimes when you go looking for your heart's desire, it's best to look in your own backyard first, to paraphrase Dorothy from The Wizard of Oz...)

I agree with TheJenners, here. My 18 year old daughter can do this type of thing in her sleep, with lightning speed; it seems to be a natural skill for young people who grew up with technology. SURELY a motivated seller can find some friend or tech-savvy and motivated kid (offer them a few bucks)?, it is simply *not* rocket science these days.

asterix, IOW, I completely agree. I know how frustrating this is (from first AND second hand experiences), keep the faith, and rant on! Maybe a seller will see this and think "oh, maybe I *should* spend the time and effort to present and market my horse in a way that will attract more buyers!"

Isabeau, I am perplexed by your level of animosity

"Hope is a good thing, maybe the best of things, and no good thing ever dies."

"It's supposed to be hard...the hard is what makes it great!" (Jimmy Dugan, "A League of Their Own")

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Just because you are spending all this time, does not mean the person on the other end is doing the same. I have responded to plenty of ads and not heard back from the person for weeks.

One one occasion I was told "well.... I placed the ad just before I went on vacation. I figured I'd wait for a bunch of replies to pile up before responding."

Not everyone out there is going to be in line with your personal agenda. And if they send old video, well that is what they have, and/or what they are willing to offer. So they are not as earnest as your are. That's all.

They are not evil, or stupid, or lazy, or dumb (as other posters have suggested.) They are just not on the same wavelength as you are.

I know plenty of sellers with horses available that can't find buyers with the money to spend. Go to any sales website, there are lots, and lots, and lots, and lots of horses for sale. Lots and lots of horses with video, who can't find buyers.

It all depends on just how much the seller is willing to invest in the process of ceasing to feed said unwanted horse.

You don't really want to sell, Ok? Then send me 7 year old video of the horse napping, and I'm sure you'll be treated to another winter of feeding him.

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A couple of years ago, I bought a horse after seeing a video of him standing in a muddy paddock, banging his head against a milk jug hung from the roof of his shelter.

So yes, I agree that video can be very important.

LMAO.
A few weeks ago I bought a horse off of a video taken from so close that you almost couldn't see all of the horse. He trotted 1/2 circle and then lumbered over an X. He looked evenly lame on both fronts making him look sound.
I then drove directly out to try the horse. He was still in his racing plates and his feet were so terribly under-slung and long that I bet he hurt from his head to his toes.
He kinda ran off with me when I asked for the right lead. And I pummeled a standard when I cantered to the left.
I bought him on the spot.

: )

On the flip side, I put my broodmare up for sale after her baby was born. Add specified that I had no idea if she was broke.
People asked for a video of her gaits.
Am I going to run her around with a small kid? probably not.
But we did one quick blip of her running from one end of the area to the other and then she showed off her lovely trot.
The inquirers were nice enough to NEVER get back to me after I sent them video.

Also, I do not have an iphone or android and my computer takes 3 hours to upload 30 seconds of footage onto youtube.
So for all of those out there who think technology is sophisticated EVERYWHERE--guess what, some farming communities are still primitive.

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Fifteen or 20 years ago sellers were ranting about people who wanted them to email digital photos!

As for video being "perfect" consider this; most of the buyers are ammys who don't mind seeing how the horse takes a "joke" of a ride. Years back a barnmate was horse shopping and was sent a link to a video of a horse on course at home. Second line, the rider peers straight down into the "in" of an in and out. Horse canters through unruffled. Later the rider gets far too handy coming to a single oxer on a long approach. Horse pats the ground and sails over. No recriminations on the other side... Client says "Why would they send THIS?" Trainer replies "I'm calling on this one NOW!" Client bought him and when he stepped down from the 3' the trainer got him as a schoolmaster/ 2'6 packer to start kids at shows.
It's fine to put a BNT on for the video but when Annie Ammie shows up to try him "results may vary."

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In regards to the truck just to pull vs. daily driver, the math I did based on how much I drive and tow.... I had that question several years back. I have a 2000 Dodge Ram 2500 diesel to tow my rig, and it was also my daily driver. I crunched the numbers and it was actually cheaper for me to buy a little car (I LOVE my Toyota Yaris!!) as a daily driver and "retire" my truck to hauling only. But I also drive a lot, and my Yaris gets 40mpg average. Just something to think about, since you brought it up. It may be worth it to do the math. Plus now I can actually go through drive-throughs and be heard.

This is extremely good advice.

The "yellow pad" is one of the best friends a body can have when it comes to make a complex decision. It requires the person to focus their attention and look at the number (and that, in and of itself, can be quite scary! ).

Some areas of savings that folks forget to take into account begins with insurance. If you reduce the miles driven on a vehicle you reduce the premium. If you reduce the miles driven you reduce the risk of damage and you might want to increase your deductible. This can be a significant savings. Fewer miles means longer lasting tires. If you're running dually that is also some big bucks. In addition to reduced fuel costs you have reduced maintenance. Be careful with oil changes, however. They have a miles and months component. And an oil change is cheap insurance against engine damage. I'm sure others can come up with additional savings.

As you select a horse for a task so should you select a vehicle for a task. There will be compromises (based mostly on economics for most folks) but some "think time" can make those compromises more effective.

G.

Mangalarga Marchador: Uma Raça, Uma Paixão

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Thank you!!!!!!!!!!!!!! and it takes a while to edit cut patch load etc...and you know what I hate edited films..hate fade in-out hate music...I have 1-1 edited video and it took forever to do and then upload...we all don't have speed of light systems out here in bumm "F" no-where low tech farm land.........

Also, I do not have an iphone or android and my computer takes 3 hours to upload 30 seconds of footage onto youtube.
So for all of those out there who think technology is sophisticated EVERYWHERE--guess what, some farming communities are still primitive.

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I have to say I mostly agree. I appreciate seeing a minute or two of video showing quality of gaits.

But most/much sale video is not worth much. How the horse goes for the rider in the video may not have anything to do with how it is going to go when you sit on it. I think there are too many videos out there because buyers want them, but a lot of them make the horse's look terrible.

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Well, I am of the challenged persuasion. All I have in the video department for my eventing prospect is her first ever XC school.https://www.facebook.com/#!/photo.php?v=4297975101943
What else would you want to see of her?
If I do put this out there I know I should delete the sound.
I have a few stills from her jumping as well. Conformation shot? what else?