I was struck by the response, "pretty enough" from a few people on the post about if you would think you were pretty if you saw yourself on the street...What does pretty enough mean to you? When I look in the mirror I wonder if I am pretty enough...if I am not, what does that mean for me in my life? Why must I even ask that question? What does "pretty enough" mean to you in your life? Is it important in the grand scheme of things to you? If yes, why? If no, why?

I think everyone is pretty in their own way. Everyone looks different so there's no way to say who's pretty. It's someone's opinion and my opinion, is that I've never seen an ugly woman. I honestly have not seen a woman who I would be like "she's ugly" or she's not pretty, because who says. I don't judge...but when I do judge, they're males.

I meant pretty enough as in I'm pretty enough to be called pretty. Not a supermodel.

It's not important in the grand scheme of things and even with the men I date. Being attractive only has a small part to do with one's face. I've dated guys who were not all that good-looking, but were well-groomed, funny, outgoing, generous, friendly, well-mannered, etc. which made them very attractive. And not just attractive to me, but to others.

I find it frustrating when women are so concerned with whether we, or other women, are "pretty enough."

Why not ask if you are smart enough, or capable enough, or strong enough, or kind enough, or loved enough, or content enough, or fulfilled enough, or talented enough, or happy enough, or challenged enough, or educated enough, or protected enough, or giving enough.... anything but the constant obsession with whether we are pretty enough?

It is frustrating, but I think we have to acknowledge that women still seem to garner the majority of their "power" and influence through their looks. I see it in my daughter. She's 15 and just starting to feel the power of her young beauty over men. It is POWERFUL stuff. And it can go to one's head. I think we're all guilty of using (and sometimes abusing) that power as women. I don't know the answer or cure for this problem.

I find it frustrating when women are so concerned with whether we, or other women, are "pretty enough."

Why not ask if you are smart enough, or capable enough, or strong enough, or kind enough, or loved enough, or content enough, or fulfilled enough, or talented enough, or happy enough, or challenged enough, or educated enough, or protected enough, or giving enough.... anything but the constant obsession with whether we are pretty enough?

It is frustrating, but I think we have to acknowledge that women still seem to garner the majority of their "power" and influence through their looks. I see it in my daughter. She's 15 and just starting to feel the power of her young beauty over men. It is POWERFUL stuff. And it can go to one's head. I think we're all guilty of using (and sometimes abusing) that power as women. I don't know the answer or cure for this problem.

Originally Posted by RedCatWaves

I beg to differ. I have never used looks to get anything accomplished or to get my way. If anything, I always dress down and try to draw attention away from my looks

It matters and it shouldn't. My weight has been all over the place and my value/intelligence/worth (men AND women) has always depended on my beauty. What could you get from me. When I weighed more I wasn't treated great. When I look like I do know, I could say anything and stupid people think I matter more. It's sick. It hurts me that grown women in relationships still care. It hurts me that I feel worthless if I'm within a certain weight. It hurts me when I work with young women who only want to be friends with women they think are attractive and who starve themselves. It's all sick. And I won't participate. My body is not up for public discussion.

One of my best friends is beautiful according to western ethnocentric standards. And I love her. I see what she gets away with, and I see how people use her. Without her looks ... I love her but so many of her friends would dissapear

It is frustrating, but I think we have to acknowledge that women still seem to garner the majority of their "power" and influence through their looks. I see it in my daughter. She's 15 and just starting to feel the power of her young beauty over men. It is POWERFUL stuff. And it can go to one's head. I think we're all guilty of using (and sometimes abusing) that power as women. I don't know the answer or cure for this problem.

Originally Posted by RedCatWaves

This is so true , n to add up abusing the beauty to get what u want will leave u feeling empty most of the time even when u get everything !

It is frustrating, but I think we have to acknowledge that women still seem to garner the majority of their "power" and influence through their looks. I see it in my daughter. She's 15 and just starting to feel the power of her young beauty over men. It is POWERFUL stuff. And it can go to one's head. I think we're all guilty of using (and sometimes abusing) that power as women. I don't know the answer or cure for this problem.

Originally Posted by RedCatWaves

I beg to differ. I have never used looks to get anything accomplished or to get my way. If anything, I always dress down and try to draw attention away from my looks

Originally Posted by sKorpio1190

Even if you didn't use it intentionally, you probably have benefitted from gender beauty privilege. It's like white privilege...It's always there.

It is frustrating, but I think we have to acknowledge that women still seem to garner the majority of their "power" and influence through their looks. I see it in my daughter. She's 15 and just starting to feel the power of her young beauty over men. It is POWERFUL stuff. And it can go to one's head. I think we're all guilty of using (and sometimes abusing) that power as women. I don't know the answer or cure for this problem.

Originally Posted by RedCatWaves

I beg to differ. I have never used looks to get anything accomplished or to get my way. If anything, I always dress down and try to draw attention away from my looks

Originally Posted by sKorpio1190

Even if you didn't use it intentionally, you probably have benefitted from gender beauty privilege. It's like white privilege...It's always there.

riiight... sKorpio: for a job interview: weren't you in front of your clothes wondering what you were going to wear for the interview, making sure you hair was "ok"?

Even that is using your beauty... if you go for a job interview you always put a little effort in it...

You probably just don't admit to yourself that you have used your beauty before, even though not intentionally as RCW says

Everybody uses their beauty, there's only the difference in people who do it on purpose and who exaggerate, and people who don't do it intentionally but just want to look "decent" for the job interview/hot date/presentation/family reunion/...

I don't see why a woman born with beauty shouldnt use it. If someone is born with intelligence, charm, strength or athletic ability they use it, so why not beauty.

If a woman has beauty as her only asset, and someone is willing to reward her for that, is that reward really less deserved than the man who is rewarded for being able to throw a ball far. They both have to work at making the most of the attribute they were born with.

riiight... sKorpio: for a job interview: weren't you in front of your clothes wondering what you were going to wear for the interview, making sure you hair was "ok"?

Even that is using your beauty... if you go for a job interview you always put a little effort in it...

You probably just don't admit to yourself that you have used your beauty before, even though not intentionally as RCW says

Everybody uses their beauty, there's only the difference in people who do it on purpose and who exaggerate, and people who don't do it intentionally but just want to look "decent" for the job interview/hot date/presentation/family reunion/...

Originally Posted by Neleke

Actually, I looked for clothes considered appropriate for an interview, and something that fit. No, I didn't stand there saying "hmmmm what makes me look good? What looks flattering on me? What makes me look pretty?" And I just wash my hair and go out, for any occasion. So Neleke, don't presume to know what I do or have done when you've never even met me ok? Thanks.

From what I've learned in life so far is that everyone is judgmental to some degree. Just be who you are and try to not care so much about what people think. I have pimples and freckles and wrinkles, (oh my). Should I be miserable because of that?

The more critical you are of everyone else, the more critical you are of yourself.

Yes, I'm tired of all of the advertising telling me how I should look. I can't even go on pinterest to look at spring and summer 2013 outfits without seeing these really cute outfits, but it looks like women who wear them might weigh 100 pounds. In the back of my mind, I hear myself saying, "Oh, if I only lost 10-20 pounds, I could look as good as her in that outfit." It's not realistic!

From what I've learned in life so far is that everyone is judgmental to some degree. Just be who you are and try to not care so much about what people think. I have pimples and freckles and wrinkles, (oh my). Should I be miserable because of that?

The more critical you are of everyone else, the more critical you are of yourself.

Yes, I'm tired of all of the advertising telling me how I should look. I can't even go on pinterest to look at spring and summer 2013 outfits without seeing these really cute outfits, but it looks like women who wear them might weigh 100 pounds. In the back of my mind, I hear myself saying, "Oh, if I only lost 10-20 pounds, I could look as good as her in that outfit." It's not realistic!

It is frustrating, but I think we have to acknowledge that women still seem to garner the majority of their "power" and influence through their looks. I see it in my daughter. She's 15 and just starting to feel the power of her young beauty over men. It is POWERFUL stuff. And it can go to one's head. I think we're all guilty of using (and sometimes abusing) that power as women. I don't know the answer or cure for this problem.

Originally Posted by RedCatWaves

I beg to differ. I have never used looks to get anything accomplished or to get my way. If anything, I always dress down and try to draw attention away from my looks

Originally Posted by sKorpio1190

Even if you didn't use it intentionally, you probably have benefitted from gender beauty privilege. It's like white privilege...It's always there.

Originally Posted by RedCatWaves

I don't think it's a privilege in the same way white privilege is, though. For one thing, it attaches to the inferior gender, and is generally used in a way that actually devalues the person even though in the short-term it may seem like getting superficial male attention is a "privilege." Yes, certain types of looks can be more successful in gaining romantic relationships and the perks that come with them, and they may even draw enough attention to get someone through the door to a job interview or offer, but not all women will get this privilege all the time and those of certain races, or ages, or weights, or body types, will not get it to the same extent as others, and even the ones who get it will eventually age or get pregnant or gain weight or whatever so that they lose the privilege.

Also, looks alone are unlikely to keep or advance you in a significant job - they enhance other skills and qualifications, or are of use only in jobs that don't really need qualifications. And women who take advantage of their looks, or are perceived to be doing so, are subject to negative treatment. And the constant competition about looks is really divisive amongst women and creates a lot of insecurity since women are never sure if they are "pretty enough", even if others think so. So I don't think we can call it a privilege. It's more like the perception some have that people of colour have an advantage in hiring because of affirmative action - any tiny, temporary advantage there may be is more than set off by all the negatives and the remaining discrimination. And of course, a woman of colour who may be perceived as pretty still has to deal with all the racial BS.

Get used to me. Black, confident, cocky; my name, not yours; my religion, not yours; my goals, my own; get used to me. -Muhammad Ali

I don't see why a woman born with beauty shouldnt use it. If someone is born with intelligence, charm, strength or athletic ability they use it, so why not beauty.

If a woman has beauty as her only asset, and someone is willing to reward her for that, is that reward really less deserved than the man who is rewarded for being able to throw a ball far. They both have to work at making the most of the attribute they were born with.

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Originally Posted by Yoshimi

Along with others, you make some interesting points. All things can have a catch 22. If you asked women if the were smart enough, you would many middle of the road answers. Some may say no thanks to learning disabilities. Educated enough? Not everyone can afford that, or has had the opportunity. Education can be used to put or hold others down just as much (if not more) as physical appearance. It's simply more acceptable to talk about. Are you loved enough? Content enough? Giving enough? If so, things of this nature will shine through and add to ones physical appearance.

I have known women who used and abused their physical beauty/power. Never worked, lived alone in high dollar apartments while several different men paid the bills, bought their food, bought their clothes, etc. This type of using behavior will eventually catch up to the person. It really has more to do with lacking decency toward others, and that had everything to do with how they were raised (and in several cases of ppl I know- not raised at all/left to fend for themselves at an early age). I have known many more who are knock outs, and have personalities/life skills to match, who could not even begin to do that. Others might do it on a much smaller scale.

When I hear terms like "hipster" I think, who told cliques they could leave high school??