On 24/01/2014 phillipivan wrote:>I would suggest:>Day 1: Climb Ozimandias Direct.>Day 2: Eat, drink, sleep.>Day 3:Wander round some, drive home.>>Has the significant advantage of cutting out all of the hauling, and most>of the pack weight.>>There are NO POSSIBLE disadvantages to this strategy.

On 24/01/2014 dave h. wrote:>I second the importance of hauling systems. >>If I ever do Ozy again, I think I'd use a far-end hauling system. (Rope>is tied in to the anchor, you put the pulley w/ progress capture on the>haulbag itself, and jumar up the haul line with the bag). I found hauling>over Big Grassy's edge massively inefficient... I will admit that I've>only used the far-end hauling technique with a relatively light bag. Obviously>yours will be pretty heavy. So it may not work very well at all. Just something>you may want to consider.

you don't need or want to far end haul while you have a partner. Far end hauling is for when your soloing and your bag gets stuck, you then rap back down and release it, far end haul it up a few metres over whatever its catching on, then either jug back up and haul it or continue to haul it for the rest of the pitch. The last two times I hauled from BG I set the anchor then rapped down and hauled from the little ledge below. When i got the bags to that ledge I far-end hauled them upto BG, friction wasn't an issue if you haul from down there.

On 24/01/2014 One Day Hero wrote:>On 24/01/2014 dave h. wrote:>>If I ever do Ozy again, I think I'd use a far-end hauling system.>>I found hauling over Big Grassy's edge massively inefficient...>>What the....? So, instead you'd rap all the way back down and then jug>back up with 50% of a haul bag hanging off your harness? Jesus, that sounds>like a lot of work!>

Clarification: have done this when climbing in a group of three. A leads (with haul line or tag-line), finishes, fixes haul-line to anchor; B seconds and cleans, C jugs the haul line.

>>So it may not work very well at all.>>Depends what you're hoping to achieve........if you're attempting to harden>the fuch up for some epic overseas adventure, this might just do the trick>

All my aid-climbing experiences have consisted of a tall, cool glass of 'harden up.'

>Hang on! You'll jug all the way back up the pitch with half a haulbag>on you......and the bloody bag will still only be halfway up!! So you rap>down again to halfway, then again a quarter of the way, then an eighth?>This is the worst idea I've ever heard

I believe that you're describing what's colloquially known as Xeno's Method.

The weight of the haul bag is always on the haul line, it is never hanging from your harness. A MiniTrax (or similar) is attached to the haul bag and the haul line is threaded through it. So there's your progress capture. If you need mechanical advantage you can improvise a Z-rig by threading the haul line's tail through a pulley attached to the upper ascender. Resetting the Z-rig is achieved by pushing the ascender up the haul line while jugging.

Hopefully the paragraph above clarifies what I'm talking about. If not I'll dig up a link or something.

I don't really understand the method that you're describing in your last sentence. It definitely sounds stupid, inefficient and boring. In fact, I feel dumber for you having suggested it. :P

On 24/01/2014 Justcameron wrote:>The description on thecrag and in the guide recommends splitting the pitch>to big grassy at the ledge beforehand to avoid rope drag, that's what we'll>probs do. >>http://www.thecrag.com/climbing/australia/buffalo/the-gorge-north-side/route/13015939>>Have bought some ladder aiders from the states, just got to hope they>get here in time!>>Have been doing a little bit of practice aiding and jumaring around the>local Adelaide cliffs.>>Still to practice hauling.>>It sounds like a 2 day ascent could be difficult with both of us new to>aiding. Not sure of the best way for a 2.5-3 day ascent. We don't have>a portaledge.>>Considering the following:>>Day 1 afternoon: Walk down south side, climb first pitch or two, fix ropes>and sleep on the ground. (not sure if there is anywhere flat to sleep?>saw a post from a couple of fellas who struggled to find somewhere. We>would have 1x hammock so only need 1x flat spot, can use ropes/gear to>build a nest)>Day 2: jug fixed ropes, haul bag, get to big grassy, climb 2 pitches above>and fix ropes. (if we were going faster I'm not sure if we could fix to>the gledhill bivvy and rap back, or if it's too overhanging)>Day 3: jug fixed ropes, summit.>>There are a couple of unknowns with this plan, and also the unpleasantness>of repeatedly abseiling and jumaring up again

^^^This is what we did when we did ozzy for the first time. There are flat places to sleep closer to the river, if you try to sleep closer to the wall there is less options.

I kinda like phillipivan's strategy, especially since there are no possible disadvantages

However, the opportunity to sleep on a wall in Australia without going to werribee and seeming like a bit of a weirdo (I'm looking at you Miguel) is somewhat rare and is probably worth experiencing.

I feel that a good way to do the route is in two days + the previous arvo for a bit of carrying/scoping.

Day 1) Show up in the afternoon, check the status of the creek, then find the walk down track and drag all your climbing gear (and maybe the tinned food too) down as far as possible in the given time. Since it doesn't weigh too much, this should only take a couple of hrs and not leave you rooted. Walk back to the top, have a beer, and sleep comfortably.

Day 2) Get up super early and walk down again with sleeping stuff, haulbag, remaining food etc. Since you now know the way and aren't carrying crazy weight, you should be able to get to the base in about an hour. Climb to the ledge and hopefully fix a pitch.

Day 3) Wake up, climb to the top, drink beer, go home, easy peasy.

There's no conceivable way things could wrong if you use this strategy.

On 24/01/2014 dave h. wrote:>I don't really understand the method that you're describing in your last>sentence. It definitely sounds stupid, inefficient and boring. In fact,>I feel dumber for you having suggested it. :P

Well, I was imagining a team of 2, and full rope length pitches (seeing as you initially didn't qualify your odd technique). So I kinda saw the leader getting to the top, fixing both ropes, rapping the haul line while the second jugged and cleaned on the lead line, releasing the bag from the lower anchor onto the mini-trax sitting near the end of the haul line, then jugging back up with the bottom end of the haul line clipped to his harness..........obviously this is not what you meant. I still don't understand why you would want to do the thing which you did mean (which seems to require a 3rd person and probably double the pitch length in haul rope)

More efficient to link pitches and haul 50m etc. Use a pro traxion or pulley/jumar set up. Micro traxions suck for hauling. If you need you can put a z-drag on, use a tibloc and you can rattle it down the rope, saving time with resetting etc. counter weight hauling is also easy, one of you abseils back down the lead rope, the bag goes up easily then u just jug the pitch again.

Try not to overcomplicate the system you use! And the gledhill bivy is one of the better nights you can spend anywhere!!

On 28/01/2014 nmonteith wrote:>A haul bag for two days on Ozy should weigh very little. Cut out the stove,>pillow, pots and pans, wine - and the bag should be light enough just to>pull up hand over hand. :-)

There's a great flat/clear spot of ground five minutes down from the base of Ozy, right by the stream.

Even if there was a comfortable spot at the base, you wouldn't want to bivi there as that's where everyone empties their bladder before starting off. Judging by the aroma a few choose to empty their bowels too...

On 24/01/2014 One Day Hero wrote:>I kinda like phillipivan's strategy, especially since there are no possible>disadvantages>>However, the opportunity to sleep on a wall in Australia without going>to werribee and seeming like a bit of a weirdo (I'm looking at you Miguel)>is somewhat rare and is probably worth experiencing.

…SNIP…

I feel you're being unjust Damo, a ledge can make every single pitch climb into a few days worth of fun. Here are some pics from Mike and my 1 day assault of Golgotha. We were climbing in fine form until we ran into difficulties below the "roof" at the top of Golgotha so decided to bivi there and top out the next day when we were refreshed…

Pat, you must have been smoking something stronger than Macca if you thought I was intelligent; but, I did list a three day itinerary where days 2 & 3 invoke doing very little. The recovery time has been scheduled in.

Of course, any one else who does it will likely be fitter stronger and more efficient than huwj and I and be playing quoits by lunchtime on day 2.