I am somewhat irked... somewhat curious... somewhat baffled when I ask this question from you, dear reader. Especially if you are a man, then you are my target today! I want to ask the men readers and co-bloggers around that what is their definition of a "good girl"? And you know what I mean when I say this!

This term suddenly was hurled upon me, as a question, by a friend of mine while we were watching the move "No one Killed Jessica". First about the lady (I prefer, girl!), she is my age and a mother and belongs to a small town of Northern India, but settled in Delhi for quite a few years now. No, the aim of telling you about her background is not that I want to typecast people from different cities with different labels, but this was important for me to tell, so that you understand why she asked, what she asked me during the course of the movie.

If you have seen the movie, you know the character of Rani Mukherjee, who plays a fiery journalist - practical, career oriented but has a heart to help out the Sabrina Lal (played by Vidya Balan). She plays the "now" girl - lives a fast paced life with no time for a boy friend or love, so to specific. She uses cuss words at the drop of a hat, or even without it... she makes you sit up and think... and soon you feel.. yes... girls are becoming like this now.

Now, during the movie, there is a scene where she is close and intimate with a guy, of course she is not in a relationship, it seems to be a casual fling. And during the act, she gets a call from her office and, yes the girl knows her priorities, and she drops the guy like hot potato (well literally!) and zips out of the room. The poor guy asks "so what am I supposed to do?" and pat comes the reply "fly solo"!!!! The cinema hall echoed with a laughter listening to this! Not that everyone understood it so quickly, but the context was clear.

Now, at this point, this friend of mine asks me "what is 'fly solo'?" (!!!) and I was like.....!!!! well leave that!!

As the movie progressed, my friend asks me one question - "Oh, ok, that means Rani in this movie is not a good girl?" (What would you have said, dear reader?!) Well, I said, "well, yes, she is not a good girl traditionally speaking, but she is ( I wanted to say today's girl, but I said)... not a.. well good girl". (I knew I was not wanting to say what she is not prepared to hear, and I am in no mood to explain or argue anything with her at that time, so I just shut up).

The movie ended, but her question kept ringing a bell in my head... was she really not a good girl? How was she a bad girl - yes, she smokes, she must a social drinker, has casual sex and has no qualms about it, but works hard for her career, as a journalist, up to the level of being a social icon, reporting from Kargil (OK that was her profession) but then taking up a case for a bigger good of the society, ie Jessica Lal murder case. I could really not say she was bad.

I am actually very very intrigued thinking about what makes a girl good in our Indian society? I was a bit irritated earlier, but now as I'm thinking about it, I'm intrigued.

I remember my mother used to say good girls don't reply back, they are sobre and simple, they make oily plaits (!) with no trace of make up at all, before marriage that is, no kajal, don't even think of a lipstick., forget about any kind of western wear when you go to college. Girls don't laugh out loud, they keep their volume low while talking, they know how to cook and stitch (phew!!!) and above all they know how to talk respectfully with elders. Was I good as per her criteria, I tried hard but I think I didn't fit her bill !

I also remember, how guys used to say those days, you can have a girl friend who wears short clothes and is fun loving and sexy and hot, but when it comes to marriage, choose a girl, or else let your parents choose a girl who is simple(read wear suits) and homely (read cooks and stitches etc) and is not really career oriented. So the rules of a desirable girl were different for a girl friend and a wife.

It was all so clear cut that time, well defined. But today, I see things changing, even the definition of a good girl changing... don't you think so?

I want to shut up now! I want to hear from you dear reader, what is your definition of a good girl? What qualities you would like to see in a girl whom you think would be desirable for you? How do you see abusive language used by women today ( I'm talking about words like f**k etc which I guess is quite ingrained in this generation's lingo). How do you see your woman if she chooses to drink liquor along with you, just for example? How do you see things in these changed perspectives of society?

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comments:

I didnt saw the movie . Anyway cigar smoking and drinking is not good for the ladies and also for the boys. You also mention abt the dress. Can u see any boys wearing sexy dress ?Anyway, men and women should be wear neat dress in public.

hi restless, I have read your post. I am intrigued to find out what your male readers will have to say about this?

My view of a good girl is one who is genuine and has a clear heart. I dont mind what she wears, how she talks, whether she is single or married. but when she is in a relationship, I would expect her to be true to her partner too.

same things extend for my definition of a good boy. One who possesses a clear heart and one who is genuine.

Hmm , here you have asked one question to get answer of two questions i.e on personal as well professional front.There may be lots of interpretations and you may get N nos of answers , but the bottom line is there are only 2 universal thing good and bad or yes or no ,0 and 1. right or wrong.For me a good girl is someone who lives her life the way she wants ..both professionally and personally provided she doesn't hurt other by her actions.Drinking vodka , wine or smoking cigarette tells us ones addiction..looking on a scale of good or bad its does come as bad.But its ones personal choice so it doesn't mean one is bad..it can be situation driven.Today I had a conversation with one my Australian friend, we were discussing about cricket match , so she said I don't go to cricket stadium to watch matches as I hate Australian men they are big beer drinker and later give a mouth full.so by saying this I want to say that we make assumption that if one does this he/she is bad or good ,I would say it in cricketing terms ..that A good girl is someone who consistently keeps her good form ( definitely not in drinking or smoking pitch )going through all the situation and not get swayed by them ,instead face them to solve it.But its hard to be Good all times , so being bad some-time is good :)

Hi, I am an Indian and I am currently stuyding in France, and I do not agree with your point.I think every person should always be well mannered and well behaved, and if they dont, it just means he/she has lack of education..i dont understand why these days we try to give credit to girls for smoking,partyinh,having casual sex when these are the stupid things which anybody can do at anytime..why we dont consider a girl is good who has enough knowledge about culture,langaue,novels,films,and manners??

Every person is good unless proved otherwise. Now what is OTHERWISE? A person who fails in shouldering responsibilities or fails in being discreet or keeping within set limits or is disrespectful when it is not desired or does not treat others as fellow human beings may be labled as NOT GOOD. The 2nd and 3rd will differ from society to society as well as person to person. There is no differentiation between girls or boys. A girl has same rights as the boys to live the way she wants to. She has same feelings, urges and curiosities. But unfortunately God has made girls in a way that they are on the receiving end always. A girl is the one who is left holding the baby. So she needs to be extra cautious. Smoking is bad be it by a boy or girl. As long as you enjoy your drink and do not let the drink enjoy you, it is fine. Using f words in appropriate company is what one needs to be careful about. One needs to be discreet in relationship. A girl needs to apply mind fully before going in for such relationships. After marriage one, boy or girl, needs to be faithful to spouse. I think these are basic factors.

anyways, i may sound cliched and stereotyped when i say this.. but that is a fact.. for me, personally, a good girl is someone who is true to herself, which means, she as a corollory, remains true to her circle as well.. a good girl needs and will understand the others' and act accordingly.. she is also someone who stands by her guy...not leaving him in the lurch... (I dont intend to relate this with the episode of the movie)...

but at the same time, i am tempted to ask...? what is the definition of the bad girl? one who smokes ? or does an occassional drink make her bad? or are we re-defining the word good and bad with the times that we live in? so does a girl necessarily have to follow traditions and culture to make herself good? well, if otherwise, in the modern times, does followign these customs and tradition the only thing that can make her a good girl?

for me, traditions and customs are things to be followed and it can be done while at the same time being modern and having a drink or a smoke in teh evening? in the times when women re-define their space... manage corporations, having a business dinner and having a drink should not make her a bad girl.. but, back home, i think even that woman should be eager to cook and follow traditions and make herself the good girl in front of her family.. because ultimately, that will be the one thing that may bring her happines..

I would conclude that women or for that matter girls need to live in teh times they are in.. and that doesnt exactly mean they should forget the traditions.

Vivek - so you feel, personally smoking and drinking makes a girl bad? correct me if i'm wrong. You said addiction.... it is different from just enjoying a drink or a light. Although smoking is injurious to health but light drinking has proven good effect on our body, provided it is not in excess. what say?!

Prashant - Glad to read ur reply! You asked some very valid questions! rather turned the table! The crux is, yes, to be with the times is important, but forgetting from where u started or where u belong to is also not so right. Esp with family. An occasional drink doesnot make a girl bad, nor does an occasional sudden outburst of anger does.

Yes, we are reviewing the definition of good and bad now, we are forced to. When it's cool to be bad and sins are to be enjoyed, then we must draw out a picture for ourselves. We must keep all those frivolous things out of our character which are basically being followed 1. to look traditional or religious or homely 2. to look cool and with the times.

If we begin to question our choices, we will be able to churn out the best of both the worlds and a balance between traditional and fun can be maintained.

Yes the perception differs that's why i wanted individual definitions and thoughts about it, no generalizations.

Ah, I wish, women didn't have to try to prove that dear! rules are really different for the males and females in countries like ours. So, if women want to have fun (whatever it means to them) they have to tell what , why and how much is the limit to that.

You started very well. This is so true! Anyone is good till proven guilty and being guilty may be the result of not being really discreet!! At times this is true!!

Yes, both the genders have equal rights, but does that really happen on ground? I fear not.

Yes, biologically girls have more reasons to be cautious, taken.

But, here I wanted to know your definition of a good girl! How you see a girl and say yeah, she is good and no, oh this girl is not good and will bring bad name to the family. So, how do YOU see it was what I was curious about :)

I agree that equality is only in spoken words and not actual practice in most of the societies. Even in progressive nations there still is discrimination, may be just a little but it is still there.

Now coming to defination of GOOD girl, let me just put it that same criteria as I had listed in my comment applies to both - Girls or Boys. One who falls short in any of those may be listed as NOT GOOD. I will reword those here :

Deliberately failing to shoulder responsibilities.

Failing to be discreet knowing that it may harm someone or ownself.

Not keeping within limits. This includes all criminal activities including repeated traffic violation too.

1. Drinking, smoking, casual sex... nothing is bad as long as you don't indulge in excess of anything and as long as you don't hurt/cheat anyone.

2. All talk of "traditional girls" who can cook etc is bullshit in today's times. Guys are over ambitious today. They work for insane hours, and stay in nuclear families. What are their wives supposed to do... watch "Kyunki Saas bhi kabhi" all day long? And that's when they want educated girls as their brides! Get real fellas... girls today need to have their own life too, especially educated ones! And that's where the whole "traditional" system goes for a toss. Guys have got to learn how to cook and stuff in today's times.

3. Majority of Indian males today think it's okay for them to be involved in casual sex before marriage, but they still want a virgin bride. That's hypocrisy of the extreme level.

4. Swearing isn't cool at all... for both guys and girls. Very LS.

5. Mothers' definitions of "good girls" don't hold valid anymore. Times have changed a lot. Now females are required to go pay the electricity bills, book railway tickets, do the grocery shopping etc on their own. In our mothers' times, these jobs were taken care of by the men of the house.

Is this what our 'good' society has come to? Where girls fight for the rights to be able to drink and smoke and have casual sex?!Sure, there's nothing wrong with it, if the girl wants to do it. But then on the other hand, is it really so necessary!? If it was just a "casual thing" for the girls who did it, they wouldn't have turned it into a matter of right and wrong, justice and injustice. If it's so important that you need to debate over it, it's not casual. And if the habit of smoking and drinking and having 'casual sex' is not, in face, casual; then it's also not good!!Also, smoking is definitely bad for health, so is drinking! And is having sex worth the risk of getting pregnant when we know our society is not in the stage to accept that!? If today's girl really is all that, I'm surprised what people can do to be called 'modern'!!

Simple answer to this is someone who is able to carry what she is. Smoking, drinking or one night stands or casual flings etc. are all personal choices and no person can be labelled based on these. They are totally personal choices irrespective of gender; else what would you call those girls who don't drink, don't smoke, remain devoted to their husbands but cause a lot of troubles to their in-laws after marriage? Tell me who is good or bad here? To be good what all matters is good heart. But, at the same time honesty is equally important. If one is honest to his/her partner (if he/she has one!), no matter whatever he/she does. And we also need to understand the respect to our elders is also equally important. While all these have nothing to do with someone's character (it is entirely my opinion), postponing such thing for a while when our elders are around caused no harm. One aspect of it is the dual-facedness. I've seen girls who want all liberty for themselves, but also want to take that extra advantage of being a girl which our society happily offers them. Let's accept it; either genders are equal or they are not... but it can't be both. I also know girls who don't like to be instructed themselves but keep on targeting their guys at every step...My last sentence is for guys for whom there is difference between GF material and wife material. Friends, lets accept it. Today's GFs are tomorrow wives and this kind of double-facedness will take you nowhere. If you like your GF to go to the pub with you, accept the same if your wife does it.Just like that...

I love the topic.. and getting different views is awesome. But I agree taht smoking, drinking, gambling.. or any such thung is a matter of personal choice (I agree with u Just Like That) Infact even if she wanna have aids.. its should not be any one's business. The rule applies to both gender. We are no one to judge any one. Its total typecasting. Why dont we hate Sharukh for being a chain smoker?We love him not because he is true to his wife and kids. But for his work Thats how we are associated to him and thats where the boundary lies. An actor, teacher, friend, or any body for taht matter should not be judged by their personal choices but by the relation/ association we have with them.

Priya - thanks for ur views dear.. but i think u stretched it a bit far. I don't think women in generaly would like to fight for the things u said, as a matter of right.

But being judged just on the basis of something of these done for fun, and not addiction, should not be the criteria to decided how one is really. It can be a part of the person, but that's not it. She is more than that.

Thanks Restless...."I have to say, this happens when the tables get turned, but this is a phase before the two genders learn to co-exist on an equal footing"Let me tell you there would never be a time when these two genders would co-exist. Man (meant for both genders :p) by nature carries egos and always loves to rule. See it in the history... tell me one culture where men and women have ever co-existed. One has always ruled the other. We either have male dominated societies or female dominated societies; never have I heard of non-dominated societies.But yes, we have to understand that standards that we fix for ourselves are true for others also. If I booze, I've no right to stop others. If I had sex before marriage, I can't expect a virgin wife. Unfortunately I've seen my friends expecting that. But, girls also need to understand the reality. If you expect something from boys, we also expect something in return. If you want to lead an independent life, so do we:). Let us all who are talking of equality and independence answer a simple question....What if you son wanted to marry a boy?

How could I miss this post? Relevant question...Personally I do not approve of using bad words..It shows lack of culture.As adults we all know that excessive smoking and drinking are not good for health.Having said that smoking drinking and sexual preferences are personal. Suppose there is an injured person lying unattended on the road. A girl who swears, drinks and has multiple partners comes out to help the guy is a good girl. Whats the point of being good if you cant feel for others?An immoral person can be good and vice verse.

this link does not have relevance to the actual question, but it is relevant with the point raised by me, i.e. equality. Equality is important in all relations, be it gender or otherwise. I just wanted to put a point across that we all live in dual-mode. Something which is correct for us becomes wrong for others and this is true with genders also:)

For me the rules of conduct, character and behavior are the same for both the boys as well as the girls. I mean how can you expect your partner to be sober if you yourself are a heavy drinker, a nymphomaniac or a womanizer.My definition of a good girl or rather a good person is a one who is what he/she actually is...I detest when a person tries to be one who he is actually not, as simple as that!

Based on the answers by people to this post, I reckon I'm a "bad girl" :P I'm not traditional, I do swear when I am angry or experiencing road rage (not at people), I do enjoy drinking, I wear what I want...

I think in general though, a good person (girl or boy) is someone who lives their life with honesty and genuineness and kindness without intentionally harming others. Who cares about swearing or drinking or smoking or casual sex as long as no one else is being harmed???

Yes, the definition is very very subjective, therefore, I didn't even expect a generalization of this. So, I asked for individual opinion of each blogger pal on the issue - What is YOUR definition of a good girl?

This was just a way to initiate a discussion, On the changing morality scenario of our society.

Yeah true, in reality the rules for both are not the same, but for me they are...individual perspective! But for me a person whether a boy or a girl should not only be true to others but to oneself too!

Yeah true, in reality the rules for both are not the same, but for me they are...individual perspective! But for me a person whether a boy or a girl should not only be true to others but to oneself too!

Very intriguing. Never thought about this before, until I read PB's post and thereby hopped over here to read yours.Like I mentioned there, each person has a different definition of good. What is good to one may be bad to someone else. What is immaterial to me may probably be very material to someone from an older generation.IMHO, if a person can just manage to 'not wish ill' for someone else, I think that is good enough for me.

Its a nice post.... Ah! I really wanted to write something of this sort.... Nyways.... For me 'Good' and 'Bad' is always a perception... Like the character of Rani is good for "Jessica" and for her viewers who have seen her as a brave journalist. But when it comes to that Boy whom she left... or her traditional aunt (not present in movie though) she is a 'bad' girl....

Sometimes I get perplexed with this thought that if everything is perception, how can one decide, what is good and what is bad???? Then, I get the answer that perception again has the foundation from the society we live in.... But as we grow, as we educate ourselves, we should broaden our view to see from more angles, rather than a narrow line...

as many has perceived good or bad is defined according to individuals.

these are qualities that are good and these are that bad - we can never say that.drinking, smoking, and ya casual sex is bad, and this is not good for individuals mental and physical well being too.

but this does not hold line for women alone. If it is bad for woman it is bad for men too.commitment in relationship is also needed from both ends.

so a good or bad girl can never be defined.but being in addiction over the same, roaming with skimpy skinny skirts and pubbing, partying all time is definitely my definition of bad.

OK on how would i want my girl to be, " she is to be bold, clever, one concerned with society, knowledgeable, the one who is committed to me and the one that i can trust on forever. she should be a woman who understands me and whom i can understand. i will have no problem with her sitting down on a occasional drink alongside with me,, in fact i will love it. she should be independent and who can take bold decisions and who wishes to to go on and achieve something.

and i believe when a woman is like this concerned and bold she will know what she is doing, she will never harm the society nor the culture and that's how i define a good girl.

I couldn't help but comment on this one.A lot of men would let their parents choose.Women aren't Miss Goody Two Shoes any more.Hell,I wouldn't judge anyone because she can enjoy casual sex or drink or smoke (as long as she has a job and is not a minor).Loved your take.

I did'nt see this movie yet to best of my knowledge a Good girl is always obey her parents either in personal or profession life and to drink smoke is not good for girl and boy as well. A good girl should take steps prudently and to be in limit and do not down her respect in any cost.

I did not see this movie yet, but to the best of my knowledge, a Good Girl should obey her parents either in personal or professional life, should know her limits take steps prudently never down her respect at any cost. And to drink to smoke or to have any sexual relation is not good for boy and girl at all.

A good person (girl or boy) is someone who's aware of the flaws in her personality, to begin with; who doesn't succumb to peer/societal pressure; who's well-read and analytical (point/counterpoint); who meditates on and does things that matter; whose life isn't skin-deep...

Presence of this goodness, we know, however, cannot BE in the absence of its own grayness.

Things like smoking/drinking/casual sex, boys do it so why not girls. Here's an undercurrent, especially involving the latter, again meaning it for both sexes. But, boys, don't tell girls they can't do it if you think your kind can and, girls, likewise..

the thing which your mother told is completely gender discrimination. why can only men is allowed to do all the things? who told that men should only work and girls should stay in the house cooking? this gender discrimination was followed before 100 of years ago because stupid old men with an IQ of 2 told that women are weak. why should only girls should be good? why do society always blames the girl? i hate gender discrimination and iam very nonconventional. people should like for who YOU are not because the society says so. that is why i love america and its culture. they dont show gender discrimination as much as india. in kerela girls should not go out at night or wear bad clothes or shout and play. they should be quiet, shy and should not speak anything unless they are spoken to. are girls slaves? and they should do all they cooking and the cleaning. typically a slave. hate indian culture.

Just want to clarify where I come from before answering my perception of "what is a good girl?"

I am a Christian male from Canada, who has just come across this blog 2 and a half years after it was posted.I, absolutely, do not like or respect religion: be it Christian, Catholic, Islam, Buddhist, Hindi, or whatever.I do, however, respect faith and people thereof.Religious people are close-minded and damage other people, whereas people of faith are welcoming and hospitable to anyone no matter their background, faith, or religion.Now with that clarified, I can answer, however, my answer doesn't just apply to girls, it applies to anyone, child, teen, adult, either male or female.

1. You/we have high standards, high values, and high morals.2. We re always respectful of others; even if we disagree. Also, expect respect in return.3. We are not naive, nor do we allow people walk all over us. We stand-up for our standards, values, and morals. We believe in ourselves but not more than our belief and honour to our God;4. We are faithful in all respect, including telling the truth in all situations (even if it hurts), keeping our word and vows when we give them(be loyal); and living a life of love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, and definitely, with self-control; do everything with purpose. (I believe these are the basic 9 in all faiths).5. Be courageous. Deal with problems, do not run/hide/avoid from them (high standards and values);6. Have faith in God (or Allah; or whatever name you give Him/It); be true to your faith and not religion, for religion can be manipulated and destroyed. Be righteous in all your words and actions. Desire a greater, more substantial faith, and a truer relationship with God.7. When seeking a relationship with another person; find someone who is here with you, ideally of the same faith, however, since respect is a big thing here, make certain that they can respect your faith while maintaining their own. Good people, deserve good people. Anything else leads to complications.

I have only met 5 other people who fall in these qualities. I call them good friends. People I meet who come close, I call friend. Everyone else is acquaintance. I have no enemies, nor am I anyone's.

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