Only four of Watford’s 36 borough councillors have opted to take a voluntary pay cut as recommended by an independent panel.

Last week, the councillors voted to freeze their allowances for the next financial year with the option of individuals taking a 5 per cent cut if they wanted.

This week it emerged that the vast majority, including the opposition Labour group, which voted for higher cuts in allowances, are declining the measure.

Meanwhile, three Green and a Conservative councillor have publicly said they intend to take the cut and have attacked the Labour and Liberal Democrat groups for refusing.

The row comes after the independent remuneration panel, which looks at councillors’ pay, recommended councillors take the voluntary 5 per cent cut to reflect the shrinking nature of the council due to privatisation and cuts. The panel also recommended elected mayor Dorothy Thornhill’s £65,000 a year salary be frozen for the year.

At a full meeting on January 30, the Labour opposition group proposed deeper cuts on councillor allowances and the mayor’s salary, but were voted down by the Liberal Democrat majority.

The Lib Dems argued that the allowances had been frozen for the last 11 years and were needed to help people of all incomes become councillors.

In the run-up to last week’s meeting, Labour leader Nigel Bell argued that the mayor, cabinet members and councillors receiving a special responsibility allowance – including himself – should “lead by example” and take a 20 per cent cut in their remuneration.

He also argued that backbench councillors should take a 10 per cent cut as Watford’s allowances were higher than at other councils.

This week Councillor Bell said: “The Labour group’s view was that we put down an amendment for various levels of cuts in remuneration and we specifically wanted this to be mandatory with the whole council voting for the cut.

“We were not arguing for a voluntary cut and were urging the majority Liberal Democrat group to vote for a mandatory cut, which they decided against.”

Councillors earn a basic allowance of £7,209, meaning a 5 per cent cut would leave them £360 worse off a year.

Cabinet members and councillors with responsibilities such as committee chairmen get special responsibility allowances that bring their pay up to between £18,024 and £10,093. Party leaders get an extra £100 per councillor in their group up to £2,000.

At last week’s meeting, the Green group and Conservative councillor Steve Johnson argued they thought councillors were worth the level of remuneration they currently receive. However, they both said they would take a cut if the Labour group did first.

This week both the Greens and Councillor Johnson said they would be taking the 5 per cent cut. In a statement released yesterday (Thursday) the Green group said: “The independent panel on councillors’ pay in Watford recommended that councillors take a 5 per cent cut. “We think it would be wrong to ignore their conclusions, and the Green group therefore voted for a cut in councillors’ pay. In the current economic climate we should all be tightening our belts.

“Conservative, Labour and Green councillors all voted for a pay cut, and this is a great opportunity for all opposition councillors to unite to put pressure on the ruling Lib Dem group through action – not just words. “We should not be letting the Lib Dems off the hook with this and we call on others to join us in taking a cut.”

Councillor Johnson said: “I am very disappointed that the Labour group have been exposed for such blatant hypocrisy. All the other parties were very clear that the current allowances are set at the correct level. Only Labour argued for a reduction of up to 20 per cent.

“Now, Labour seems to be running away from a commitment to cut councillors’ allowances that they gave years ago.

“I don’t understand their argument now that they will only accept a mandatory cut. If they feel the allowance is too high they should take the cut. Labour have had their bluff called and have been found wanting.”

This week, the Watford Observer contacted all borough councillors to ask if they were taking the voluntary cut.

Independent councillor Malcolm Meerabux said he was planning to give 5 per cent of his allowance to the Peace Hospice.

The majority of the Liberal Democrat councillors said they were sticking with their position that it should be frozen.

Councillor Derek Scudder, who represents Stanborough, said: “This is grandstanding by Labour. Nobody has to take the full allowance. If they want to set an example, then let them set the example. Because the allowance hasn’t increased in 11 years we’ve already taken a 30 per cent pay cut in inflation.”

Some Liberal Democrat councillors, including Jan and Ian Brown and Alan Burtenshaw, said they were yet to make up their mind about the cut.

“I don’t think it’s fair for other councillors to feel guilty into giving up part of their allowance. “I think if you cut allowances it’ll put people off. Being a councillor is quite burdensome in terms of time and money.”

Matt Turmaine, Labour, Holywell ward, said: “As a group, we proposed a mandatory cut to avoid the vagaries of voluntary.

“This was then put to council to vote on. As you’re aware, council chose to vote down that proposal.”

Tim Williams, Lib Dem, Stanborough ward, said: “It’s a great shame this is an annual debate that is completely overshadowed by political hypocrisy and I firmly believe an independent panel of Watford residents should look at this matter again and then set the allowances for, say, four years.”

Jeanette Aron, Lib Dem, Nascot, said: “Councillors have always been allowed to make a voluntary reduction with their councillor allowance if they want to.

“I have already taken a cut in my allowance – this happened in early 2012 soon after I became a councillor following the Nascot ward by-election in September 2011. “That was my choice and I don’t feel others should be obliged to do so.

“The borough councillors all work extremely hard for the allowance they are given and make financial and other sacrifices in their working and family lives in order to carry out their responsibilities.”

Keith Crout, Lib Dem, Stanborough, said: “In my ten years as a councillor, allowances have never been raised on the doorstep.

“So I see no reason to take the advice of a group of unelected people who haven’t done the job.”

Kareen Hastrick, Lib Dem, Meriden, said: “The allowance is in place to cover our costs in acting for our residents and undertaking duties as elected councillors, the commitment we give in terms of time is in fact worth a great deal more.”

Shirena Counter, Lib Dem, Oxhey, said: “Although I get an allowance, I spend far more on petrol coming to the town hall on a regular basis than I would if I wasn’t one and I also used to pay for babysitting when my boys were smaller.

“I regularly get told by people that I must be mad in terms of how much of a time commitment being a councillor is and I think that by taking a cut in my allowance, the message that sends out is that I don’t think what I have done for my ward and also for Watford, is worth it.

“I find it rather ironic that the panel suggested we should reduce our allowances, but double the amount we paid them.

Comments

Why don't you ask the people of Watford if they think you are worth the money - I think it would be a resounding NO.

Why don't you ask the people of Watford if they think you are worth the money - I think it would be a resounding NO.Rollnbutta

Why don't you ask the people of Watford if they think you are worth the money - I think it would be a resounding NO.

Score: 0

MarsLander
8:04pm Fri 8 Feb 13

I think the Lib Dems and Labour should get the whole £7,209 allowance....

...split between the whole useless lot of them!

Labour have shown themselves up as extremely shallow in this fiasco, the LibDems are greedy as usual.

“I have already taken a cut in my allowance – this happened in early 2012 soon after I became a councillor following the Nascot ward by-election in September 2011. That was my choice and I don’t feel others should be obliged to do so." - Jeanette Aron - How much of a cut? Good that she did so before this even cropped up, but was it at least a 5% cut?

You can't trust much a councillor says nowadays.

Respect to the greens and the solo tory for taking the cut. It's probably just political posturing but at least they did it and put the rest to shame.

I think the Lib Dems and Labour should get the whole £7,209 allowance....
...split between the whole useless lot of them!
Labour have shown themselves up as extremely shallow in this fiasco, the LibDems are greedy as usual.
“I have already taken a cut in my allowance – this happened in early 2012 soon after I became a councillor following the Nascot ward by-election in September 2011. That was my choice and I don’t feel others should be obliged to do so." - Jeanette Aron - How much of a cut? Good that she did so before this even cropped up, but was it at least a 5% cut?
You can't trust much a councillor says nowadays.
Respect to the greens and the solo tory for taking the cut. It's probably just political posturing but at least they did it and put the rest to shame.MarsLander

I think the Lib Dems and Labour should get the whole £7,209 allowance....

...split between the whole useless lot of them!

Labour have shown themselves up as extremely shallow in this fiasco, the LibDems are greedy as usual.

“I have already taken a cut in my allowance – this happened in early 2012 soon after I became a councillor following the Nascot ward by-election in September 2011. That was my choice and I don’t feel others should be obliged to do so." - Jeanette Aron - How much of a cut? Good that she did so before this even cropped up, but was it at least a 5% cut?

You can't trust much a councillor says nowadays.

Respect to the greens and the solo tory for taking the cut. It's probably just political posturing but at least they did it and put the rest to shame.

Score: 0

drunkenduck
9:24pm Fri 8 Feb 13

I don't think they should have any money, allowance esp the mayor full stop. Most work, live local so why do they need an allowance. Or is it basically just "greed".

We all found out what MP's were doing with their allowances. Hope it's not happening within this council. But can't be sure it isn't can we.

I don't think they should have any money, allowance esp the mayor full stop. Most work, live local so why do they need an allowance. Or is it basically just "greed".
We all found out what MP's were doing with their allowances. Hope it's not happening within this council. But can't be sure it isn't can we.drunkenduck

I don't think they should have any money, allowance esp the mayor full stop. Most work, live local so why do they need an allowance. Or is it basically just "greed".

We all found out what MP's were doing with their allowances. Hope it's not happening within this council. But can't be sure it isn't can we.

Score: 0

Mohandas
9:28pm Fri 8 Feb 13

What an utterly truly magnificent gesture worthy of selling to our MP who can promote this novel idea to our multi millionaires in Parliament. Why don’t we just return to the jolly good old days where mainly the well heeled – the great and the good - so called do-gooders became councillors? OMG, they were so representative of local people and understood what ordinary people were experiencing.
I’m surprised those supposedly now going for the cut didn’t go all the way. Having followed a lost leader / Labour, they have got a free hand to make history without looking over their shoulder. Perhaps they will go on even if their life is filled with confusion and happiness is just an illusion and the world around is crumbling down when they reached out for shelter from Labour.
I say be brave, be bold and turn back the hands of time. Return to the good old days where experienced ordinary folk couldn’t afford to be a councillor or even dare aspire to be an MP which can cost over £100,000. With this new breed of elder statesmen, they will put the wow factor back into councils by high attendance at meetings with concerned groups.

What an utterly truly magnificent gesture worthy of selling to our MP who can promote this novel idea to our multi millionaires in Parliament. Why don’t we just return to the jolly good old days where mainly the well heeled – the great and the good - so called do-gooders became councillors? OMG, they were so representative of local people and understood what ordinary people were experiencing.
I’m surprised those supposedly now going for the cut didn’t go all the way. Having followed a lost leader / Labour, they have got a free hand to make history without looking over their shoulder. Perhaps they will go on even if their life is filled with confusion and happiness is just an illusion and the world around is crumbling down when they reached out for shelter from Labour.
I say be brave, be bold and turn back the hands of time. Return to the good old days where experienced ordinary folk couldn’t afford to be a councillor or even dare aspire to be an MP which can cost over £100,000. With this new breed of elder statesmen, they will put the wow factor back into councils by high attendance at meetings with concerned groups.Mohandas

What an utterly truly magnificent gesture worthy of selling to our MP who can promote this novel idea to our multi millionaires in Parliament. Why don’t we just return to the jolly good old days where mainly the well heeled – the great and the good - so called do-gooders became councillors? OMG, they were so representative of local people and understood what ordinary people were experiencing.
I’m surprised those supposedly now going for the cut didn’t go all the way. Having followed a lost leader / Labour, they have got a free hand to make history without looking over their shoulder. Perhaps they will go on even if their life is filled with confusion and happiness is just an illusion and the world around is crumbling down when they reached out for shelter from Labour.
I say be brave, be bold and turn back the hands of time. Return to the good old days where experienced ordinary folk couldn’t afford to be a councillor or even dare aspire to be an MP which can cost over £100,000. With this new breed of elder statesmen, they will put the wow factor back into councils by high attendance at meetings with concerned groups.

Score: 0

Sanity 750
11:37pm Fri 8 Feb 13

As usual I have no idea what you are trying to say Councillor Meerabux (Mohandas).

As usual I have no idea what you are trying to say Councillor Meerabux (Mohandas).Sanity 750

As usual I have no idea what you are trying to say Councillor Meerabux (Mohandas).

Score: 0

MarsLander
8:22am Sat 9 Feb 13

Mohandas wrote…

What an utterly truly magnificent gesture worthy of selling to our MP who can promote this novel idea to our multi millionaires in Parliament. Why don’t we just return to the jolly good old days where mainly the well heeled – the great and the good - so called do-gooders became councillors? OMG, they were so representative of local people and understood what ordinary people were experiencing.
I’m surprised those supposedly now going for the cut didn’t go all the way. Having followed a lost leader / Labour, they have got a free hand to make history without looking over their shoulder. Perhaps they will go on even if their life is filled with confusion and happiness is just an illusion and the world around is crumbling down when they reached out for shelter from Labour.
I say be brave, be bold and turn back the hands of time. Return to the good old days where experienced ordinary folk couldn’t afford to be a councillor or even dare aspire to be an MP which can cost over £100,000. With this new breed of elder statesmen, they will put the wow factor back into councils by high attendance at meetings with concerned groups.

What a prize idiot!

I am now starting to believe that Sanity may be at least partially right and you are a councillor, so strong is your defence of the "trough".

We are talking about a reduction of allowance by 5%, not all of it, and by all accounts councillors elsewhere work for that amount or even less and there is no record of them just being "the local gentry".

If you believe a councillor in Watford needs more than other councillors elsewhere then justify it but know the public will not believe a word of it.

Your argument holds no water, it is a stupid pathetic argument and you and the other councillors are being greedy with our money.

Why not resign councillor and see if it is gentry or pauper who takes your place? Whichever one it is, we will be better off as your thought process, on a personal level is fatally flawed and corrupted by greed.

[quote][p][bold]Mohandas[/bold] wrote:
What an utterly truly magnificent gesture worthy of selling to our MP who can promote this novel idea to our multi millionaires in Parliament. Why don’t we just return to the jolly good old days where mainly the well heeled – the great and the good - so called do-gooders became councillors? OMG, they were so representative of local people and understood what ordinary people were experiencing.
I’m surprised those supposedly now going for the cut didn’t go all the way. Having followed a lost leader / Labour, they have got a free hand to make history without looking over their shoulder. Perhaps they will go on even if their life is filled with confusion and happiness is just an illusion and the world around is crumbling down when they reached out for shelter from Labour.
I say be brave, be bold and turn back the hands of time. Return to the good old days where experienced ordinary folk couldn’t afford to be a councillor or even dare aspire to be an MP which can cost over £100,000. With this new breed of elder statesmen, they will put the wow factor back into councils by high attendance at meetings with concerned groups.[/p][/quote]What a prize idiot!
I am now starting to believe that Sanity may be at least partially right and you are a councillor, so strong is your defence of the "trough".
We are talking about a reduction of allowance by 5%, not all of it, and by all accounts councillors elsewhere work for that amount or even less and there is no record of them just being "the local gentry".
If you believe a councillor in Watford needs more than other councillors elsewhere then justify it but know the public will not believe a word of it.
Your argument holds no water, it is a stupid pathetic argument and you and the other councillors are being greedy with our money.
Why not resign councillor and see if it is gentry or pauper who takes your place? Whichever one it is, we will be better off as your thought process, on a personal level is fatally flawed and corrupted by greed.MarsLander

Mohandas wrote…

What an utterly truly magnificent gesture worthy of selling to our MP who can promote this novel idea to our multi millionaires in Parliament. Why don’t we just return to the jolly good old days where mainly the well heeled – the great and the good - so called do-gooders became councillors? OMG, they were so representative of local people and understood what ordinary people were experiencing.
I’m surprised those supposedly now going for the cut didn’t go all the way. Having followed a lost leader / Labour, they have got a free hand to make history without looking over their shoulder. Perhaps they will go on even if their life is filled with confusion and happiness is just an illusion and the world around is crumbling down when they reached out for shelter from Labour.
I say be brave, be bold and turn back the hands of time. Return to the good old days where experienced ordinary folk couldn’t afford to be a councillor or even dare aspire to be an MP which can cost over £100,000. With this new breed of elder statesmen, they will put the wow factor back into councils by high attendance at meetings with concerned groups.

What a prize idiot!

I am now starting to believe that Sanity may be at least partially right and you are a councillor, so strong is your defence of the "trough".

We are talking about a reduction of allowance by 5%, not all of it, and by all accounts councillors elsewhere work for that amount or even less and there is no record of them just being "the local gentry".

If you believe a councillor in Watford needs more than other councillors elsewhere then justify it but know the public will not believe a word of it.

Your argument holds no water, it is a stupid pathetic argument and you and the other councillors are being greedy with our money.

Why not resign councillor and see if it is gentry or pauper who takes your place? Whichever one it is, we will be better off as your thought process, on a personal level is fatally flawed and corrupted by greed.

Score: 0

[deleted]
8:49am Sat 9 Feb 13

[deleted]

The current allowances are not incentivised for residents. The Government should look at a basic allowance figure and further increments based on volume of work processed (i.e. resident queries received, raised and resolved, attendance levels at meetings, etc.)
The current allowances mean that the likes of Cllr Johnson do virtually nothing and receive payment for the privilege.
If pay cuts are voluntary, then why wait for Labour to go first? It's just political posturing over a few pounds a year. It won't win votes, since residents are more savvy and expect Councillors to make a difference.
Higher, incentivised allowances, might attract a younger, energised breed of councillor rather than most of the stayed individuals in post. When I say younger, I don't mean those fresh out of university, but those in their mid-twenties / early thirties.
Forget the 'great and the good' analogy, residents need intellectual, articulate and passionate Councillors, not 'have beens' or 'never have beens'.
Talk to ordinary working people in the high street, especially those that are in their teens and twenties and how many of them even know what a councillor is or what they do?
Here we are talking about 5% voluntary cuts in basic allowances. Get real, there are bigger issues like engaging residents of all ages in being more constructively critical about their local area, how it's run, accountability, transparency, fairness and doing the right thing, not just appearing to do so.
The debate here appears to fall in the latter of these categories.Razor Sharp

The current allowances are not incentivised for residents. The Government should look at a basic allowance figure and further increments based on volume of work processed (i.e. resident queries received, raised and resolved, attendance levels at meetings, etc.)

The current allowances mean that the likes of Cllr Johnson do virtually nothing and receive payment for the privilege.

If pay cuts are voluntary, then why wait for Labour to go first? It's just political posturing over a few pounds a year. It won't win votes, since residents are more savvy and expect Councillors to make a difference.

Higher, incentivised allowances, might attract a younger, energised breed of councillor rather than most of the stayed individuals in post. When I say younger, I don't mean those fresh out of university, but those in their mid-twenties / early thirties.

Forget the 'great and the good' analogy, residents need intellectual, articulate and passionate Councillors, not 'have beens' or 'never have beens'.

Talk to ordinary working people in the high street, especially those that are in their teens and twenties and how many of them even know what a councillor is or what they do?

Here we are talking about 5% voluntary cuts in basic allowances. Get real, there are bigger issues like engaging residents of all ages in being more constructively critical about their local area, how it's run, accountability, transparency, fairness and doing the right thing, not just appearing to do so.

The debate here appears to fall in the latter of these categories.

Score: 0

Sanity 750
9:14am Sat 9 Feb 13

If you read Councillor Merrabux`s (Mohandas) comments on previous stories you will be seriously worried exactly who has been elected to speak on behalf of our town. Especially his comments on his expulsion from the Tory party.

“Having followed a lost leader / Labour, they have got a free hand to make history without looking over their shoulder. Perhaps they will go on even if their life is filled with confusion and happiness is just an illusion and the world around is crumbling down when they reached out for shelter from Labour.”

If you read Councillor Merrabux`s (Mohandas) comments on previous stories you will be seriously worried exactly who has been elected to speak on behalf of our town. Especially his comments on his expulsion from the Tory party.
Please could someone translate the passage below from Mohandas (Councillor Meerabux) previous Comment?
“Having followed a lost leader / Labour, they have got a free hand to make history without looking over their shoulder. Perhaps they will go on even if their life is filled with confusion and happiness is just an illusion and the world around is crumbling down when they reached out for shelter from Labour.”Sanity 750

If you read Councillor Merrabux`s (Mohandas) comments on previous stories you will be seriously worried exactly who has been elected to speak on behalf of our town. Especially his comments on his expulsion from the Tory party.

“Having followed a lost leader / Labour, they have got a free hand to make history without looking over their shoulder. Perhaps they will go on even if their life is filled with confusion and happiness is just an illusion and the world around is crumbling down when they reached out for shelter from Labour.”

Score: 0

MaryShabti1
10:09am Sat 9 Feb 13

Sack useless Dotty and save £100k!!!!

Sack useless Dotty and save £100k!!!!MaryShabti1

Sack useless Dotty and save £100k!!!!

Score: 0

MarsLander
10:15am Sat 9 Feb 13

Sanity 750 wrote…

If you read Councillor Merrabux`s (Mohandas) comments on previous stories you will be seriously worried exactly who has been elected to speak on behalf of our town. Especially his comments on his expulsion from the Tory party.

“Having followed a lost leader / Labour, they have got a free hand to make history without looking over their shoulder. Perhaps they will go on even if their life is filled with confusion and happiness is just an illusion and the world around is crumbling down when they reached out for shelter from Labour.”

Sorry, you've got me there.

What about those people who deciphered the pigeon code that had been stuck up a chimney since the war? They might be able to help.

[quote][p][bold]Sanity 750[/bold] wrote:
If you read Councillor Merrabux`s (Mohandas) comments on previous stories you will be seriously worried exactly who has been elected to speak on behalf of our town. Especially his comments on his expulsion from the Tory party.
Please could someone translate the passage below from Mohandas (Councillor Meerabux) previous Comment?
“Having followed a lost leader / Labour, they have got a free hand to make history without looking over their shoulder. Perhaps they will go on even if their life is filled with confusion and happiness is just an illusion and the world around is crumbling down when they reached out for shelter from Labour.”[/p][/quote]Sorry, you've got me there.
What about those people who deciphered the pigeon code that had been stuck up a chimney since the war? They might be able to help.MarsLander

Sanity 750 wrote…

If you read Councillor Merrabux`s (Mohandas) comments on previous stories you will be seriously worried exactly who has been elected to speak on behalf of our town. Especially his comments on his expulsion from the Tory party.

“Having followed a lost leader / Labour, they have got a free hand to make history without looking over their shoulder. Perhaps they will go on even if their life is filled with confusion and happiness is just an illusion and the world around is crumbling down when they reached out for shelter from Labour.”

Sorry, you've got me there.

What about those people who deciphered the pigeon code that had been stuck up a chimney since the war? They might be able to help.

Score: 0

[deleted]
10:43am Sat 9 Feb 13

[deleted]

Ethnic MKHAN INsanity razorsharpe Mirror Mirror SAY this everyday Smeagol it will help with UR anger management ‘Sad miserable dejected lonely Andrew Mortimer sat in the corner calling himself M khan to look ethnic and lost over 700 votes because he & Wat Con Assoc are so representative of the people’ But U were not just a shrivelled buffoon then but U somehow contrived to make URself into a better idiot.Mohandas

Ethnic MKHAN INsanity razorsharpe Mirror Mirror SAY this everyday Smeagol it will help with UR anger management ‘Sad miserable dejected lonely Andrew Mortimer sat in the corner calling himself M khan to look ethnic and lost over 700 votes because he & Wat Con Assoc are so representative of the people’ But U were not just a shrivelled buffoon then but U somehow contrived to make URself into a better idiot.

Score: 0

Sara
11:12am Sat 9 Feb 13

Whatever method is used to decide Councillors' allowances, please don't suggest a return to payment by attendance at meetings. This just encourages some people to sign up for every meeting going, just for the cash, whilst those who are working hard with residents outside the Town Hall are less well remunerated.

Whatever method is used to decide Councillors' allowances, please don't suggest a return to payment by attendance at meetings. This just encourages some people to sign up for every meeting going, just for the cash, whilst those who are working hard with residents outside the Town Hall are less well remunerated.Sara

Whatever method is used to decide Councillors' allowances, please don't suggest a return to payment by attendance at meetings. This just encourages some people to sign up for every meeting going, just for the cash, whilst those who are working hard with residents outside the Town Hall are less well remunerated.

Score: 0

Harry Caine
12:17pm Sat 9 Feb 13

There was a WO poll on Cllrs allowances a short while ago.

I seem to recall that readers overwhelmingly voted for a reduction. Half of that majority advocated a cut of more than 20%

So much for democracy

There was a WO poll on Cllrs allowances a short while ago.
I seem to recall that readers overwhelmingly voted for a reduction. Half of that majority advocated a cut of more than 20%
So much for democracyHarry Caine

There was a WO poll on Cllrs allowances a short while ago.

I seem to recall that readers overwhelmingly voted for a reduction. Half of that majority advocated a cut of more than 20%

So much for democracy

Score: 0

MarsLander
2:34pm Sat 9 Feb 13

Since when did democracy get in the way of running a council?

Since when did democracy get in the way of running a council?MarsLander

Since when did democracy get in the way of running a council?

Score: 0

Razor Sharp
2:40pm Sat 9 Feb 13

Sanity 750 / Smeagol (ex-Cllr Andrew Mortimer) appears to be looking for Malcolm yet again. I doubt Mohandas is Malcolm. He is more likely to be a Labour councillor or Labour sympathiser.

The point he seems to be making, albeit somewhat over cooked in translation, is that most of the existing councillors are past their sell-by date, not just in terms of age, but also engagement and empathy with the local residents.

In that respect, there is some truth. In the big scheme of things, with ditched initiatives and failed policies, Dotty and her administration have burnt through a lot of tax payers' money and usurped democracy. In comparison, councillors' expenses are a drop in the ocean.

What about Dotty's £65k+ Is she equal to nearly 10 councillors? Why doesn't she take a large cut in her allowance?

Sanity 750 / Smeagol (ex-Cllr Andrew Mortimer) appears to be looking for Malcolm yet again. I doubt Mohandas is Malcolm. He is more likely to be a Labour councillor or Labour sympathiser.
The point he seems to be making, albeit somewhat over cooked in translation, is that most of the existing councillors are past their sell-by date, not just in terms of age, but also engagement and empathy with the local residents.
In that respect, there is some truth. In the big scheme of things, with ditched initiatives and failed policies, Dotty and her administration have burnt through a lot of tax payers' money and usurped democracy. In comparison, councillors' expenses are a drop in the ocean.
What about Dotty's £65k+ Is she equal to nearly 10 councillors? Why doesn't she take a large cut in her allowance?Razor Sharp

Sanity 750 / Smeagol (ex-Cllr Andrew Mortimer) appears to be looking for Malcolm yet again. I doubt Mohandas is Malcolm. He is more likely to be a Labour councillor or Labour sympathiser.

The point he seems to be making, albeit somewhat over cooked in translation, is that most of the existing councillors are past their sell-by date, not just in terms of age, but also engagement and empathy with the local residents.

In that respect, there is some truth. In the big scheme of things, with ditched initiatives and failed policies, Dotty and her administration have burnt through a lot of tax payers' money and usurped democracy. In comparison, councillors' expenses are a drop in the ocean.

What about Dotty's £65k+ Is she equal to nearly 10 councillors? Why doesn't she take a large cut in her allowance?

Score: 0

Wacko Jacko
3:15pm Sat 9 Feb 13

Labour comes out of this exposed as a bunch of hypocrites, they propose a 20% cut but then none of them put their money where their mouth is and take the voluntary 5% cut, I hear one of their number said he would do the job for free, strange then that he hasn't. Credit to the Greens and the solo Tory for having the courage of their convictions and taking the 5% reduction and also to those LibDems who have done the same. Can't imagine there are lots of folk rushing to do a job for £7k a year where you're on call 24/7 and out most evenings at council meetings, never mind the paperwork, and the regular gratuitous abuse, good luck to them I say.

Labour comes out of this exposed as a bunch of hypocrites, they propose a 20% cut but then none of them put their money where their mouth is and take the voluntary 5% cut, I hear one of their number said he would do the job for free, strange then that he hasn't. Credit to the Greens and the solo Tory for having the courage of their convictions and taking the 5% reduction and also to those LibDems who have done the same. Can't imagine there are lots of folk rushing to do a job for £7k a year where you're on call 24/7 and out most evenings at council meetings, never mind the paperwork, and the regular gratuitous abuse, good luck to them I say.Wacko Jacko

Labour comes out of this exposed as a bunch of hypocrites, they propose a 20% cut but then none of them put their money where their mouth is and take the voluntary 5% cut, I hear one of their number said he would do the job for free, strange then that he hasn't. Credit to the Greens and the solo Tory for having the courage of their convictions and taking the 5% reduction and also to those LibDems who have done the same. Can't imagine there are lots of folk rushing to do a job for £7k a year where you're on call 24/7 and out most evenings at council meetings, never mind the paperwork, and the regular gratuitous abuse, good luck to them I say.

Score: 0

MarsLander
4:35pm Sat 9 Feb 13

Councillors allowances are a drop in the ocean and of no great overall importance. They are only useful for showing up the greed of the councillors who have been assessed as overpaid and yet refuse to take their snouts from the trough.

More worrying is the money Dotty and the County waste. Between them it is many millions each year.

Councillors allowances are a drop in the ocean and of no great overall importance. They are only useful for showing up the greed of the councillors who have been assessed as overpaid and yet refuse to take their snouts from the trough.
More worrying is the money Dotty and the County waste. Between them it is many millions each year.MarsLander

Councillors allowances are a drop in the ocean and of no great overall importance. They are only useful for showing up the greed of the councillors who have been assessed as overpaid and yet refuse to take their snouts from the trough.

More worrying is the money Dotty and the County waste. Between them it is many millions each year.

Score: 0

Razor Sharp
5:52pm Sat 9 Feb 13

I must have touched a raw nerve somewhere here, since I received a pop-up stating my postings were upsetting some people.

Apologies if the truth hurts.

I must have touched a raw nerve somewhere here, since I received a pop-up stating my postings were upsetting some people.
Apologies if the truth hurts.Razor Sharp

I must have touched a raw nerve somewhere here, since I received a pop-up stating my postings were upsetting some people.

Apologies if the truth hurts.

Score: 0

Mohandas
6:04pm Sat 9 Feb 13

Harry Caine wrote…

There was a WO poll on Cllrs allowances a short while ago.

I seem to recall that readers overwhelmingly voted for a reduction. Half of that majority advocated a cut of more than 20%

What U R Ethnic MKHAN Yea Blad INsanity razorsharpe Mirror Mirror SAY this everyday Smeagol it will help with UR anger management ‘Sad miserable dejected lonely Andrew Mortimer sat in the corner calling himself M khan to look ethnic and lost over 700 votes because he & Wat Con Assoc are so representative of the people’ But U were not just a shrivelled buffoon then but U somehow contrived to make URself into a better idiot. Check the Labour site for a lead on more policies as u have none & U want to be so diverse Mkhan. On Friday The Red lion was shut we could have met in town and met some people. Signed Sparatcus.

[quote][p][bold]Harry Caine[/bold] wrote:
There was a WO poll on Cllrs allowances a short while ago.
I seem to recall that readers overwhelmingly voted for a reduction. Half of that majority advocated a cut of more than 20%
So much for democracy[/p][/quote]U have got my vote. and don't forget the 20mph rejection.Pity about Smeagol's very trying disappointing limited inputs.
What U R Ethnic MKHAN Yea Blad INsanity razorsharpe Mirror Mirror SAY this everyday Smeagol it will help with UR anger management ‘Sad miserable dejected lonely Andrew Mortimer sat in the corner calling himself M khan to look ethnic and lost over 700 votes because he & Wat Con Assoc are so representative of the people’ But U were not just a shrivelled buffoon then but U somehow contrived to make URself into a better idiot. Check the Labour site for a lead on more policies as u have none & U want to be so diverse Mkhan. On Friday The Red lion was shut we could have met in town and met some people. Signed Sparatcus.Mohandas

Harry Caine wrote…

There was a WO poll on Cllrs allowances a short while ago.

I seem to recall that readers overwhelmingly voted for a reduction. Half of that majority advocated a cut of more than 20%

What U R Ethnic MKHAN Yea Blad INsanity razorsharpe Mirror Mirror SAY this everyday Smeagol it will help with UR anger management ‘Sad miserable dejected lonely Andrew Mortimer sat in the corner calling himself M khan to look ethnic and lost over 700 votes because he & Wat Con Assoc are so representative of the people’ But U were not just a shrivelled buffoon then but U somehow contrived to make URself into a better idiot. Check the Labour site for a lead on more policies as u have none & U want to be so diverse Mkhan. On Friday The Red lion was shut we could have met in town and met some people. Signed Sparatcus.

Score: 0

Engineer1
9:12pm Sat 9 Feb 13

Mohandas wrote…

Harry Caine wrote…

There was a WO poll on Cllrs allowances a short while ago.

I seem to recall that readers overwhelmingly voted for a reduction. Half of that majority advocated a cut of more than 20%

What U R Ethnic MKHAN Yea Blad INsanity razorsharpe Mirror Mirror SAY this everyday Smeagol it will help with UR anger management ‘Sad miserable dejected lonely Andrew Mortimer sat in the corner calling himself M khan to look ethnic and lost over 700 votes because he & Wat Con Assoc are so representative of the people’ But U were not just a shrivelled buffoon then but U somehow contrived to make URself into a better idiot. Check the Labour site for a lead on more policies as u have none & U want to be so diverse Mkhan. On Friday The Red lion was shut we could have met in town and met some people. Signed Sparatcus.

Hmmm, who has such an issue with the Watford Conservative Association? Perhaps the councillor that recently got booted out for his personal behaviour? Yes, he has just outed himself properly. Meerabux, you are not very bright are you? Oh and this childish attempt to pretend you are in the Labour Party... they won't have you will they? Oh and signing in as Razor Sharp too. Do you not realise what a laughing stock you are?

[quote][p][bold]Mohandas[/bold] wrote:
[quote][p][bold]Harry Caine[/bold] wrote:
There was a WO poll on Cllrs allowances a short while ago.
I seem to recall that readers overwhelmingly voted for a reduction. Half of that majority advocated a cut of more than 20%
So much for democracy[/p][/quote]U have got my vote. and don't forget the 20mph rejection.Pity about Smeagol's very trying disappointing limited inputs.
What U R Ethnic MKHAN Yea Blad INsanity razorsharpe Mirror Mirror SAY this everyday Smeagol it will help with UR anger management ‘Sad miserable dejected lonely Andrew Mortimer sat in the corner calling himself M khan to look ethnic and lost over 700 votes because he & Wat Con Assoc are so representative of the people’ But U were not just a shrivelled buffoon then but U somehow contrived to make URself into a better idiot. Check the Labour site for a lead on more policies as u have none & U want to be so diverse Mkhan. On Friday The Red lion was shut we could have met in town and met some people. Signed Sparatcus.[/p][/quote]Hmmm, who has such an issue with the Watford Conservative Association? Perhaps the councillor that recently got booted out for his personal behaviour? Yes, he has just outed himself properly. Meerabux, you are not very bright are you? Oh and this childish attempt to pretend you are in the Labour Party... they won't have you will they? Oh and signing in as Razor Sharp too. Do you not realise what a laughing stock you are?Engineer1

Mohandas wrote…

Harry Caine wrote…

There was a WO poll on Cllrs allowances a short while ago.

I seem to recall that readers overwhelmingly voted for a reduction. Half of that majority advocated a cut of more than 20%

What U R Ethnic MKHAN Yea Blad INsanity razorsharpe Mirror Mirror SAY this everyday Smeagol it will help with UR anger management ‘Sad miserable dejected lonely Andrew Mortimer sat in the corner calling himself M khan to look ethnic and lost over 700 votes because he & Wat Con Assoc are so representative of the people’ But U were not just a shrivelled buffoon then but U somehow contrived to make URself into a better idiot. Check the Labour site for a lead on more policies as u have none & U want to be so diverse Mkhan. On Friday The Red lion was shut we could have met in town and met some people. Signed Sparatcus.

Hmmm, who has such an issue with the Watford Conservative Association? Perhaps the councillor that recently got booted out for his personal behaviour? Yes, he has just outed himself properly. Meerabux, you are not very bright are you? Oh and this childish attempt to pretend you are in the Labour Party... they won't have you will they? Oh and signing in as Razor Sharp too. Do you not realise what a laughing stock you are?

Score: 0

Razor Sharp
10:25pm Sat 9 Feb 13

Engineer1 wrote…

Mohandas wrote…

Harry Caine wrote…

There was a WO poll on Cllrs allowances a short while ago.

I seem to recall that readers overwhelmingly voted for a reduction. Half of that majority advocated a cut of more than 20%

What U R Ethnic MKHAN Yea Blad INsanity razorsharpe Mirror Mirror SAY this everyday Smeagol it will help with UR anger management ‘Sad miserable dejected lonely Andrew Mortimer sat in the corner calling himself M khan to look ethnic and lost over 700 votes because he & Wat Con Assoc are so representative of the people’ But U were not just a shrivelled buffoon then but U somehow contrived to make URself into a better idiot. Check the Labour site for a lead on more policies as u have none & U want to be so diverse Mkhan. On Friday The Red lion was shut we could have met in town and met some people. Signed Sparatcus.

Hmmm, who has such an issue with the Watford Conservative Association? Perhaps the councillor that recently got booted out for his personal behaviour? Yes, he has just outed himself properly. Meerabux, you are not very bright are you? Oh and this childish attempt to pretend you are in the Labour Party... they won't have you will they? Oh and signing in as Razor Sharp too. Do you not realise what a laughing stock you are?

I'll take that as a compliment.

What's with the pseudo-authoritative tone ... "Meerabux"?

You can say what you like about Malcolm, it has nothing to do with me and became boring weeks ago.

As for WCA, most of my recent postings can't be bothered dealing with a redundant organisation like that ..... I have lost the will to discuss them ..... too much publicity for an organisation that neither warrants it or deserves it to a small selection of posters here. Yaawwwn!

Change the record / CD/ MP3 Engineer 1.

[quote][p][bold]Engineer1[/bold] wrote:
[quote][p][bold]Mohandas[/bold] wrote:
[quote][p][bold]Harry Caine[/bold] wrote:
There was a WO poll on Cllrs allowances a short while ago.
I seem to recall that readers overwhelmingly voted for a reduction. Half of that majority advocated a cut of more than 20%
So much for democracy[/p][/quote]U have got my vote. and don't forget the 20mph rejection.Pity about Smeagol's very trying disappointing limited inputs.
What U R Ethnic MKHAN Yea Blad INsanity razorsharpe Mirror Mirror SAY this everyday Smeagol it will help with UR anger management ‘Sad miserable dejected lonely Andrew Mortimer sat in the corner calling himself M khan to look ethnic and lost over 700 votes because he & Wat Con Assoc are so representative of the people’ But U were not just a shrivelled buffoon then but U somehow contrived to make URself into a better idiot. Check the Labour site for a lead on more policies as u have none & U want to be so diverse Mkhan. On Friday The Red lion was shut we could have met in town and met some people. Signed Sparatcus.[/p][/quote]Hmmm, who has such an issue with the Watford Conservative Association? Perhaps the councillor that recently got booted out for his personal behaviour? Yes, he has just outed himself properly. Meerabux, you are not very bright are you? Oh and this childish attempt to pretend you are in the Labour Party... they won't have you will they? Oh and signing in as Razor Sharp too. Do you not realise what a laughing stock you are?[/p][/quote]I'll take that as a compliment.
What's with the pseudo-authoritative tone ... "Meerabux"?
You can say what you like about Malcolm, it has nothing to do with me and became boring weeks ago.
As for WCA, most of my recent postings can't be bothered dealing with a redundant organisation like that ..... I have lost the will to discuss them ..... too much publicity for an organisation that neither warrants it or deserves it to a small selection of posters here. Yaawwwn!
Change the record / CD/ MP3 Engineer 1.Razor Sharp

Engineer1 wrote…

Mohandas wrote…

Harry Caine wrote…

There was a WO poll on Cllrs allowances a short while ago.

I seem to recall that readers overwhelmingly voted for a reduction. Half of that majority advocated a cut of more than 20%

What U R Ethnic MKHAN Yea Blad INsanity razorsharpe Mirror Mirror SAY this everyday Smeagol it will help with UR anger management ‘Sad miserable dejected lonely Andrew Mortimer sat in the corner calling himself M khan to look ethnic and lost over 700 votes because he & Wat Con Assoc are so representative of the people’ But U were not just a shrivelled buffoon then but U somehow contrived to make URself into a better idiot. Check the Labour site for a lead on more policies as u have none & U want to be so diverse Mkhan. On Friday The Red lion was shut we could have met in town and met some people. Signed Sparatcus.

Hmmm, who has such an issue with the Watford Conservative Association? Perhaps the councillor that recently got booted out for his personal behaviour? Yes, he has just outed himself properly. Meerabux, you are not very bright are you? Oh and this childish attempt to pretend you are in the Labour Party... they won't have you will they? Oh and signing in as Razor Sharp too. Do you not realise what a laughing stock you are?

I'll take that as a compliment.

What's with the pseudo-authoritative tone ... "Meerabux"?

You can say what you like about Malcolm, it has nothing to do with me and became boring weeks ago.

As for WCA, most of my recent postings can't be bothered dealing with a redundant organisation like that ..... I have lost the will to discuss them ..... too much publicity for an organisation that neither warrants it or deserves it to a small selection of posters here. Yaawwwn!

Change the record / CD/ MP3 Engineer 1.

Score: 0

Sanity 750
10:33pm Sat 9 Feb 13

Razor Sharp (Nabeel Zaidi) is Councillor Meerabux`s acquaintance who has represented him in disciplinary hearings.

Razor Sharp (Nabeel Zaidi) is Councillor Meerabux`s acquaintance who has represented him in disciplinary hearings.Sanity 750

Razor Sharp (Nabeel Zaidi) is Councillor Meerabux`s acquaintance who has represented him in disciplinary hearings.

Score: 0

Razor Sharp
10:45pm Sat 9 Feb 13

LOL!

Still trying to guess who I am. Good try, but no goal Andrew.

LOL!
Still trying to guess who I am. Good try, but no goal Andrew.Razor Sharp

Good to know that you credit me with a bit of colour in my cheeks. It'll save me tanning-up in the summer or browning-up by logging in, as you do, under the alias of mkhan1.

Still, I prefer that name to Malcolm. At least it becomes less confusing when you refer to so many people as Malcolm.

Short of hacking into WO, then hacking into the e-mail address and tracing it back via the I.P. address (which is not a static IP) to the ISP and then hacking into their database, you are going to be hard pushed to find out my real identity.

Your little brain must be doing overtime Ex-Cllr Mortimer / Smeagol / sanity 750.
Good to know that you credit me with a bit of colour in my cheeks. It'll save me tanning-up in the summer or browning-up by logging in, as you do, under the alias of mkhan1.
Still, I prefer that name to Malcolm. At least it becomes less confusing when you refer to so many people as Malcolm.
Short of hacking into WO, then hacking into the e-mail address and tracing it back via the I.P. address (which is not a static IP) to the ISP and then hacking into their database, you are going to be hard pushed to find out my real identity.Razor Sharp

Good to know that you credit me with a bit of colour in my cheeks. It'll save me tanning-up in the summer or browning-up by logging in, as you do, under the alias of mkhan1.

Still, I prefer that name to Malcolm. At least it becomes less confusing when you refer to so many people as Malcolm.

Short of hacking into WO, then hacking into the e-mail address and tracing it back via the I.P. address (which is not a static IP) to the ISP and then hacking into their database, you are going to be hard pushed to find out my real identity.

Score: 0

Razor Sharp
8:10am Sun 10 Feb 13

So sanity 750, to business, where do you stand on the voluntary pay cut and your mate's (bluesky1's / Cllr Johnson's) decision to take a cut?

Will you stand as a candidate and will you take one for the Party?

Or will you just pop in and out of postings in search of Malcolm or his "acquaintance", assuming that one or both are posting?

So sanity 750, to business, where do you stand on the voluntary pay cut and your mate's (bluesky1's / Cllr Johnson's) decision to take a cut?
Will you stand as a candidate and will you take one for the Party?
Or will you just pop in and out of postings in search of Malcolm or his "acquaintance", assuming that one or both are posting?Razor Sharp

So sanity 750, to business, where do you stand on the voluntary pay cut and your mate's (bluesky1's / Cllr Johnson's) decision to take a cut?

Will you stand as a candidate and will you take one for the Party?

Or will you just pop in and out of postings in search of Malcolm or his "acquaintance", assuming that one or both are posting?

Score: 0

pc49plod
10:20am Sun 10 Feb 13

Mornin' all.
What a lot of huff and puff going on. All the boys at the station say if none of you have the cojones to say who you actually are (you know, your real name)then all your 'comments' are worthless. Put up or shut up. I'm off out on patrol, you never know I'm might bump into some of you but I'll never know.

Mornin' all.
What a lot of huff and puff going on. All the boys at the station say if none of you have the cojones to say who you actually are (you know, your real name)then all your 'comments' are worthless. Put up or shut up. I'm off out on patrol, you never know I'm might bump into some of you but I'll never know.pc49plod

Mornin' all.
What a lot of huff and puff going on. All the boys at the station say if none of you have the cojones to say who you actually are (you know, your real name)then all your 'comments' are worthless. Put up or shut up. I'm off out on patrol, you never know I'm might bump into some of you but I'll never know.

Score: 0

Razor Sharp
11:43am Sun 10 Feb 13

pc49plod wrote…

Mornin' all.
What a lot of huff and puff going on. All the boys at the station say if none of you have the cojones to say who you actually are (you know, your real name)then all your 'comments' are worthless. Put up or shut up. I'm off out on patrol, you never know I'm might bump into some of you but I'll never know.

I see that you're leading by example.

[quote][p][bold]pc49plod[/bold] wrote:
Mornin' all.
What a lot of huff and puff going on. All the boys at the station say if none of you have the cojones to say who you actually are (you know, your real name)then all your 'comments' are worthless. Put up or shut up. I'm off out on patrol, you never know I'm might bump into some of you but I'll never know.[/p][/quote]I see that you're leading by example.Razor Sharp

pc49plod wrote…

Mornin' all.
What a lot of huff and puff going on. All the boys at the station say if none of you have the cojones to say who you actually are (you know, your real name)then all your 'comments' are worthless. Put up or shut up. I'm off out on patrol, you never know I'm might bump into some of you but I'll never know.

I see that you're leading by example.

Score: 0

pc49plod
3:26pm Sun 10 Feb 13

Razor,
Are you familiar with the word 'irony'? Anyway as a member of the force I am sworn to secrecy!!

Razor,
Are you familiar with the word 'irony'? Anyway as a member of the force I am sworn to secrecy!!pc49plod

Razor,
Are you familiar with the word 'irony'? Anyway as a member of the force I am sworn to secrecy!!

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