Don't see a reason he can't get 200 k with a 3.8 era 1.25 whip. Wins will be low so that holds him back a little bit but I see him ending up a top 20 sp for the year.

And I think him being shut down was because they already made up their minds earlier on. Not that he was tired. He had an xFip under 3 in eight August and September starts. The only thing that may indicate he got tired was the increased FB% but even than, his LD% was on par with the rest of the season.

Also, pointing out LOB% last year doesn't mean much. His 90.6 LOB % in July boosted the numbers for the second half. His 73 LOB% last season can be improved if anything.

Funny, he had an awful June last season then dominated the rest of the way. 2.58 ERA post-ASB, 4.71 pre-ASB. There is not a track record of him falling apart as the season wears on.

There is not a track record on him period, he has under a full season of data to go on as a starter. His great 2nd half was built around LOB% more than anything and they shut him down in September when he was tired.

So he falls under the category of "Ender doesn't like him, so lets make up up some reasons why he's not that good".

By the way, he was shut down because he doubled the amount of innings he threw as a reliever in 2011. Not because he was tired. His final 5 starts of the season: 50 Ks and 7 BBs in 42 IP. Average fastball of 95+ MPH. Not bad for a guy that was tired and had mechanics that were falling apart.

Well he could still fall apart as there isn't that much data to go on...but for $6-$12 Auction dollars or a mid-late draft pick, you get a starting pitcher that may emerge as a $30+ value pitcher. And that's a gamble I like to take.

Last year I was down on Gio, this year my mistake might be not grabbing this guy on any teams. Could be a total stud if his walk rate improves from last season. I expected it to get worse but he's trending fast the right way.

200 K, 40 BB, ERA under 3.00 potential here. Not saying that's what he will get but he could. The sooner Marmol is traded the more wins I'll expect from him.

So he falls under the category of "Ender doesn't like him, so lets make up up some reasons why he's not that good".

No, he falls into the category of having less than a full year of data as a starter so it is hard to judge him by his stats. You can take my advice or ignore it, the advice is free. I have been posting here for 9 years now and I've been right way more than I'm wrong but yeah I'm wrong sometimes. I've never 'made up' reasons to dislike anyone though. His mechanics fall apart when he is tired and the split finger is a pitch that comes and goes. You are probably going to see something similar to last year where he is just all over the place with results.

I'm used to people jumping all over me for not loving their players so it isn't going to hurt my feelings if you disagree. I took so much flak when I said Willis wasn't any good or I said Marmol would collapse or that Strasburg was a TJ waiting to happen, or that Lawrie and Hosmer were going way too early or I wouldn't touch Youkilis or Panda last year etc.

.but for $6-$12 Auction dollars or a mid-late draft pick

Well sure for the right price anyone is valuable. If you spent under $10 on him you did great.

Don't see a reason he can't get 200 k with a 3.8 era 1.25 whip.

That seems pretty reasonable though he might struggle to get enough innings to get to 200 K if he can't consistently go deeper into games.

Last edited by Ender on Tue Apr 02, 2013 10:01 am, edited 1 time in total.

Ender wrote:I'm used to people jumping all over me for not loving their players so it isn't going to hurt my feelings if you disagree.

I think what people are getting tired of is how arrogantly assy, I think I just made up a new description there, you've been this year. Players are either a suckers buy, or your an idiot if you like this guy or your a fantasy baseball moron if you don't like that guy or if you like "that" stat then you're a fool you should really like "this" stat if you are any good at fantasy, etc.

You don't seem to just have opinions on things this year, your opinions seem to accompany insults or jabs as well. At least that's my vibe from you this year.

I looked back at my last 2 weeks of posts just to see if you are right but I'm not seeing it.

A suckers bet is a term of speech, it isn't an insult.

I made one joke about picking Dunn making you a moron and picking Morneau making you a hero, I figured people would realize it was a joke given the tone.

Other than that I disparaged drafting for positional scarcity in the 1st round of a draft in a pretty snarky way. I called adding Holds to be a worthless 6th stat. The other 129 posts I made had nothing remotely insulting in them.

I think Skin Blues is just pissy at me because I defended Braun since that seems to be the one post he kind of attacked me in before.

I think what we need to keep in mind in general here is the idea and spirit behind our posts -- it's to help the community. That's why we're here. To help and be helped. To share ideas and insight, and see the comparisons and contrast between our own and others'. Sometimes members lose sight of that and the tone of their posts leans (falls on? eradicates?) on "this is my opinion so that's what will be and I'm smarter than you and that's it" -- the spirit of making the post to help the community becomes entirely lost. The message isn't to deliver useful knowledge to the community, but to pound one's chest and turn up one's nose, and there's really just no room for it if we want this community to be as successful as it's capable of being. Not saying that is the instance here, or it applies to anybody in this thread, but it's a problem when it occurs (and it does occur, more than anyone would like to admit), and we should all take it upon ourselves to ensure that we are being a supportive community and keeping its purpose in mind. It's simple enough. Let's move forward.