I just caught wind of this over in the sherdog forums...pretty interesting if its true...puts the winner in a great position...Junior beating a legend or cro cop taking out an up and comer that ko'd werdum....I hope dos Dantos comes out on top of this one.

Twenty20Dollars

7/8/09 10:50:54PM

Do we know if cro cop took that offer he couldnt refuse?

Decent main event for 103.

DevonFoxy

7/8/09 11:07:04PM

Great fight if it happens. One I def. want to see! I'm really interested in Santos's ground game to be honest. I really want to see how much t has progressed since his fight with Ferreira so this is an exciting fight to me. See his striking against Cro Cop and hopefully his ground game would be very nice win or loose I think his future is really looking good.

breakdown5

7/9/09 12:01:07AM

Should be a damn good fight, still tough to say whether Cro Cop will be able to hang with a young up and comer like Dos Santos.

Mayhem13

7/9/09 12:05:44AM

This fight could definitely go either way, as I dont really know what to expect from Mirko at this point....

but I think with Juniors youth and power, along with his good ground game...he hasnt had to use, he will get the win.

Cigano rnd 2 KO

Jackelope

7/9/09 12:06:15AM

Man, if you would have told me that I'd be nervous about Crocop fighting a guy who is 8-1 3 years ago I would have laughed at you.

chickmagnet

7/9/09 12:58:08AM

bad fight for cc

Jesse_Canadian_MMA

7/9/09 1:06:27AM

going for dos santos

cmill21

7/9/09 1:18:18AM

Avy bet?

Pookie

7/9/09 2:42:54AM

Posted by cmill21

Avy bet?

It would be an honor

RearNakedJoke

7/9/09 3:50:24AM

as long as mirko wears his cup and dos santos wears his goggles should be a great fight.

hope this happens!

Kpro

7/9/09 4:37:02AM

I wonder if this has anything to do with Mayweather/Marquez going head to head with 103. They may try to stack the card.

Brain_Smasher

7/9/09 8:47:34AM

Cro Cops going to get owned. Again. Dos is to fast for him and to well rounded for Cop to try and defend one aspect. Dos will out work Cop and eventually get the KO/TKO.

Mirko has always had trouble with lighter fighters who move well on the feet. Even in his Pride days the 205 fighters give him his hardest fights because they moved to fast for him to plant his feet and let his high kick go. (Saku, Silva, Randleman, and even Fedor who could be 205 lbs).

Mirko is best verses big 250 lb guys who cant move and stand in front of him. Then Mirko's combo of speed and power is to much.

cmill21

7/9/09 8:51:03AM

Posted by Pookie

Posted by cmill21

Avy bet?

It would be an honor

Done.

whardin19

7/9/09 9:24:08AM

I'd have to give the edge to Junior. Cro Cop hasn't impressed me for a long time. Junior takes this one. Unless of course Cro Cop gets away with poking him in the eye.

sparky

7/9/09 9:46:32AM

POOR CroCop!!!!

Rush

7/9/09 10:42:19AM

Posted by Jackelope

Man, if you would have told me that I'd be nervous about Crocop fighting a guy who is 8-1 3 years ago I would have laughed at you.

As with any fighter that I like fighting, I get nervous regardless of the opponent.

However,

IMO, Dos Santos' only win that carries much is the Werdum one. If you look at his past opponents, about half of them have losing records and the other half only have 60% ish win records and these are guys fighting in the lower orgs. We all know (or should know) better than to put too much into a fighter based on one win.

I understand that CroCop hasn't looked great lately, but you have to hand it to him that most of his losses were against tought guys and that he has the ability to finish any fighter at any time. That is something that cannot be said for too many fighters... including Dos Santos right now.

Brain_Smasher

7/9/09 11:33:39AM

There are more ways to judge a fighter than by their fight finder stats. Dos has shown very good skills. This is something you see reguardless of who he is fighting. Your techniques are the same wether you are fighting a bum or fighting a stud.

Rush

7/9/09 2:10:31PM

Posted by Brain_Smasher

There are more ways to judge a fighter than by their fight finder stats. Dos has shown very good skills. This is something you see reguardless of who he is fighting. Your techniques are the same wether you are fighting a bum or fighting a stud.

The techniques are the same, but their effectiveness is directly related to the abilities of the opponent. Just ask Jason Reinhardt.

Brain_Smasher

7/10/09 9:49:32AM

What does Jason have to do with anything. He is someone who pads his record over poor talent because he hasnt got a very high skill level.

If you think Jason has skill, technique, and ability but just a coincidence he cant beat good people. Then you are kidding yourself.

Jason is a very poor fighter in every aspect compared to top guys. You can see that in his fights even verses the bums he faces.

There is a right way and a wrong way to do everything in MMA.

By the logic you seem to be using. I should assume Jason Reinhardt is a STUD until i actually see him lose. I knew he wasnt any good long before he fought Louzon. Thats why noone picked him to beat Joe and why he was such a huge underdog. Yet at the same time. Bobby Lashley can come in with few fights and not beat anyone good. Yet still be a 6-1 favorite over the very experienced Bob Sapp. The reason is Lashley showed a curtain set of skills verses the bums he fought that everyone knew would make Sapp a long shot. noone had to actually see him take down Brock Lesnar before they knew it.

Rush

7/10/09 10:38:05AM

Posted by Brain_Smasher

What does Jason have to do with anything. He is someone who pads his record over poor talent because he hasnt got a very high skill level.

If you think Jason has skill, technique, and ability but just a coincidence he cant beat good people. Then you are kidding yourself.

Jason is a very poor fighter in every aspect compared to top guys. You can see that in his fights even verses the bums he faces.

There is a right way and a wrong way to do everything in MMA.

By the logic you seem to be using. I should assume Jason Reinhardt is a STUD until i actually see him lose. I knew he wasnt any good long before he fought Louzon. Thats why noone picked him to beat Joe and why he was such a huge underdog. Yet at the same time. Bobby Lashley can come in with few fights and not beat anyone good. Yet still be a 6-1 favorite over the very experienced Bob Sapp. The reason is Lashley showed a curtain set of skills verses the bums he fought that everyone knew would make Sapp a long shot. noone had to actually see him take down Brock Lesnar before they knew it.

Actually it is the complete opposite to what you are thinking. The fact that you have no clue what I've been talking about just goes to show you that you have no clue in general because you essentially contradicted (and thus proved my point) what you are trying to convince every one. i.e. Looking at how Dos Santos performs in his previous fights (mediocre level fighters or worse) cannot be a testament to his skill against a veteran (or any A level fighter). Anyone can look good hitting a punching bag, but whether they can hit another fighter is another thing. I don't see why it's such a hard concept for you to grasp.

Brain_Smasher

7/10/09 11:38:02AM

I agree with that. But you cant count a person out because of it. Am i supposed to BLINDLY pick Mir because Brock is unproven. Disregard all his flaws. And pretend its not a close fight at all?

Like i said before Jason Reinhardt is a poor example. You keep saying he looks good beating cans. But there is a big difference between winning and looking good. Jason can win all the fights he wants. But he looks like crap doing it. You are not going to look like a pro boxer just because you fight a can. You either look impressive or you dont. The UFC used him to feed to their TUF boy because they knew he wasnt any good. As soon as they fed him to Joe to get someone with a record on his resume. They tossed him out. They knew he wasnt any good by wastch his wins. Because he didnt look impressive.

Back to the other thread. Yes Mirko has a weak chin. But he is very good at protecting it. With the distance he keeps with kicks and being smaller and faster than most HWs. Its hard to get to his chin. But he has been KOed a half dozen times and he is seldom even hit. I wouldnt say its horrible but it isnt good.

This fight is kinda like the Mir vs Brock fight. One guy has looked real good and shown skill in some areas with other areas unknown vs a guy who has lots of problems lately.

Rush

7/10/09 12:11:27PM

Posted by Brain_Smasher

Am i supposed to BLINDLY pick Mir because Brock is unproven. Disregard all his flaws. And pretend its not a close fight at all?

Please find comments made by me that suggests whom you should pick? Speaking of pretending this is not a close fight, please review the first thing you said in this thread.

You tried to turn around the argument to make it look like I am saying Dos Santos is a bum, but really that is not the case. In fact it is the opposite.

Don't get me wrong, I have my doubts about CroCop (as with any fighter), but I wouldn't be saying anything about this fight if I thought it was at all one sided. I was trying to counter your and Scobacs arguments to provide some balance.

Brain_Smasher

7/10/09 12:28:09PM

Posted by Rush

Posted by Brain_Smasher

Am i supposed to BLINDLY pick Mir because Brock is unproven. Disregard all his flaws. And pretend its not a close fight at all?

Please find comments made by me that suggests whom you should pick? Speaking of pretending this is not a close fight, please review the first thing you said in this thread.

You tried to turn around the argument to make it look like I am saying Dos Santos is a bum, but really that is not the case. In fact it is the opposite.

Don't get me wrong, I have my doubts about CroCop (as with any fighter), but I wouldn't be saying anything about this fight if I thought it was at all one sided. I was trying to counter your and Scobacs arguments to provide some balance.

Im my first post i said you can see skill in any fight. Not just vs top guys. How is that picking one side or another? There is nothing in that post where i claim it isnt a close fight. Even said it was close in other posts. My first post was soley to counter people who were counting out Dos just because they knew little of him. Not knowing is a good reason to not pick someone. But its a poor reason to outright act like someone has no chance. That was my only point. When someone says so and so hasnt fought noone and uses it to suggest they wont win. Thats flawed logic. I wouldnt be so sure when i knew little about the subject.

The exact part i was refering to was you saying people were putting to much into his Werdum win. But you went as far as suggesting it was lucky then go on to say he hasnt fought noone so people shouldnt expect him to win. I responded by saying some of us have seen more than 1 fight and dont base his ability off of one fight.

Rush

7/10/09 12:37:09PM

Posted by Brain_Smasher

Cro Cops going to get owned.

Rush

7/10/09 12:44:46PM

Posted by Brain_Smasher

How is that picking one side or another? There is nothing in that post where i claim it isnt a close fight.

see quote above

Posted by Brain_Smasher

When someone says so and so hasnt fought noone and uses it to suggest they wont win. Thats flawed logic. I wouldnt be so sure when i knew little about the subject.

Since when is it false logic to normalize a person's achievements based on the the level of challenges required to attain those achievments?

Posted by Brain_Smasher

The exact part i was refering to was you saying people were putting to much into his Werdum win. But you went as far as suggesting it was lucky then go on to say he hasnt fought noone so people shouldnt expect him to win. I responded by saying some of us have seen more than 1 fight and dont base his ability off of one fight.

Of couse I suggested the Werdum win could have been lucky and I provided a number of examples of fighters (in another thread) where their own versions of similar performances have appeared to be just that, after reviewing further fights in the UFC. I also provided a number of examples where fighters have been able to follow up on their initial performance indicating that they do deserve continued credit for their performance.

As for putting too much into the Werdum win, I still stand by that statement. If Dos Santos does well against CroCop and follows that up with one or two more convincing performances against A level fighters, then I will surely come in and say he is a great fighter. However, at this point I am still sticking with my assessment of "not being convinced yet"

Brain_Smasher

7/10/09 12:56:59PM

I thought you were talking about this thread. But on that thread. Yes i picked Dos. That was what the topic was for.

Yes it is fine to base achievement on the level of competition. But if you think you can know for sure who is going to win by counting out the guy you know least about. Then you will have a career picking percentage of 57%.

We know least about Brock Lesnar and Mir is more proven. Yet Brock is the big favorite in the fight (-250). But since his only win was a fluke punch vs Randy and then a bunch of nobodies. I guess we can just count him out and pick Mir.

I guess we will have to disagree on this. But i feel its better to judge a fight on skills i have seen rather than just assume everything i have seen is overrated and everything i havent seen is bad.

Rush

7/10/09 1:03:22PM

Posted by Brain_Smasher

I thought you were talking about this thread. But on that thread. Yes i picked Dos. That was what the topic was for.

That quote was from this thread.

Brain_Smasher

7/10/09 1:10:28PM

My bad i didnt see that post.

Point still stands. In that post i was giving my breakdown on who i am picking and why. What was wrong with that?

Then you come on and claimed everyone is basing on one fight (which i am not) and all Dos other fights are meaningless (which they arent).