General Dulwich Hamlet chat

I fucking hate the idea of anyone coming to Hamlet and suffering any kind of harassment/discrimination, and I'd like to think if I was in earshot of any such incident, I'd step right in (although that can be a tougher call when we're away at busier grounds with a large amount of twats standing next to me).

But what pro-active steps do you think we could do to improve things?

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I've asked before for statements to be made that sexist behaviour and sexual harassment aren't acceptable at Hamlet, just as a reminder, in the same way we say racism and homophobia aren't acceptable. What else could we do? Well, Southwark Council has a women's safety charter, and while DHFC isn't a night out, a lot of the same principles apply: Let's talk about...women's safety | Southwark Council and as DHFC has licensed premises maybe it could sign up?
There's also a voluntary scheme which I've seen in bars where women can let staff know if there is a problem in a subtle way - I can't remember the exact name of that scheme and can't find it online at the moment.

I've asked before for statements to be made that sexist behaviour and sexual harassment aren't acceptable at Hamlet, just as a reminder, in the same way we say racism and homophobia aren't acceptable. What else could we do? Well, Southwark Council has a women's safety charter, and while DHFC isn't a night out, a lot of the same principles apply: Let's talk about...women's safety | Southwark Council and as DHFC has licensed premises maybe it could sign up?
There's also a voluntary scheme which I've seen in bars where women can let staff know if there is a problem in a subtle way - I can't remember the exact name of that scheme and can't find it online at the moment.

I'm sure it will be conveniently forgotten in time. Football remains a boys club and I must admit I agree with her that DHFC's stance on sexism/sexual harassment doesn't go any further than a fancy kit for IWD. In that sense, apart from not singing the tits and fanny song, it's no better than any other club.

I'll recommend the Supporters' Trust look into pressing for initiatives like the Southwark Safety Charter to be incorporated into the culture of DHFC.
It is also my understanding that the incident above is a police matter and so would urge that people are prudent about discussing it.
This does not however mean that we cannot/should not be absolutely pro-active in pursuing a better culture, right now.

For starters i'd suggest that we drop the sort of sentiment that motivated that ridiculously simplistic 'what if a bloke said that..' rhetoric. It bears no comparison that's the point.

For starters i'd suggest that we drop the sort of sentiment that motivated that ridiculously simplistic 'what if a bloke said that..' rhetoric. It bears no comparison that's the point.

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The sort of sentiment that motivated the 'ridiculously simplistic' comment was that statements like 'have that you c' shouldn't be used, no matter by who, & hopefully if someone was using it at Champion Hill they would be called out for it.

The sort of sentiment that motivated the 'ridiculously simplistic' comment was that statements like 'have that you c' shouldn't be used, no matter by who, & hopefully if someone was using it at Champion Hill they would be called out for it.

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It was at the Earlsmead I believe and was the basis of forward the Hamlets brand for like a year...

The sort of sentiment that motivated the 'ridiculously simplistic' comment was that statements like 'have that you c' shouldn't be used, no matter by who, & hopefully if someone was using it at Champion Hill they would be called out for it.

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...and has precisely fuck all to do with the topic at hand, which is the harassment of women at football.

I'd like to state that we do take these things incredibly seriously, please see the statement below on the twitter accusations. We've tried our best to get to the bottom of this, but currently the stadium ban for the twitter user seems most appropriate.

I'd like to state that we do take these things incredibly seriously, please see the statement below on the twitter accusations. We've tried our best to get to the bottom of this, but currently the stadium ban for the twitter user seems most appropriate.

When good people make a mistake, it's better to speak up than stay silent. So...

I find that statement really troubling. Whatever has happened, I don't think referring to the individual concerned as "the twitter user/account owner" throughout really demonstrates that "these things" are being taken "incredibly seriously".

Personally, I think it better not to name the accuser, or accused, as both have accepted cautions from that, & therefore it is quite minor for it be dealt with by cautions, under the eyes of the law, from both parties.darryl So what do you think the Club should have done, if you were dealing with things, if the Club has done wrong in this?

Personally, I think it better not to name the accuser, or accused, as both have accepted cautions from that, & therefore it is quite minor for it be dealt with by cautions, under the eyes of the law, from both parties.darryl So what do you think the Club should have done, if you were dealing with things, if the Club has done wrong in this?

That's because there are currently no women on the Football Committee. Every year the Football Committee put out an appeal for new members. No women have come forward. It's a bit harsh to blame the Committee for that, from where I'm sitting?

Sorry, I genuinely don't understand... You're criticising something, and I'm genuinely asking what you would have done, and you give that response. It seems, if I can paraphrase slightly, 'you never change either'.

The original comment wasn't meant as a pop at you, but a genuine question...

Sorry, I genuinely don't understand... You're criticising something, and I'm genuinely asking what you have done, and you give that response. It seems, if I can paraphrase slightly, 'you never change either'.

The original comment wasn't meant as a pop at you, but a genuine question...

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You should be having a pop at them. He is suggesting we should have publicised someone's name, which is mad.

That's because there are currently no women on the Football Committee. Every year the Football Committee put out an appeal for new members. No women have come forward. It's a bit harsh to blame the Committee for that, from where I'm sitting?

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Bloody women, eh?

Tell you what, how about the next time there's an appeal for new members, say there will be two places on the committee reserved for women, and say you actively want to change things. Be the change you want to see.

darryl - totally taken on board, we're not exactly trained in this. The thinking behind it was to keep her id private. Rightly or wrongly. Felt that was the best thing to do.

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I get it, and it's not the kind of thing that anyone wants to have to write, and it's a legal minefield too. But just saying "the complainant" or "the individual" would have been better, as it looks as if the club's attitude is "bloody Twitter, if that had never existed, we'd never had this allegation and it would all be alright". Which I know isn't your intention, but it's possible to read that into it.

Tell you what, how about the next time there's an appeal for new members, say there will be two places on the committee reserved for women, and say you actively want to change things. Be the change you want to see.

I didn't, actually, as anyone with a working grasp of English will note. But hey, someone else to deflect the issue!

I get it, and it's not the kind of thing that anyone wants to have to write, and it's a legal minefield too. But just saying "the complainant" or "the individual" would have been better, as it looks as if the club's attitude is "bloody Twitter, if that had never existed, we'd never had this allegation and it would all be alright". Which I know isn't your intention, but it's possible to read that into it.

darryl - taken on board. Certainly wasn’t the intention when drafted but can’t change now. Hopefully we’ll never have to draft anything like this ever again, but we should put some structures into place incase it ever does.

Tell you what, how about the next time there's an appeal for new members, say there will be two places on the committee reserved for women, and say you actively want to change things. Be the change you want to see."

No, NOT 'bloody women eh'...I was merely stating why the statement was written by men...BECAUSE there are no women on the Football Committee...it would have been impossible for one to do so!

Thank you for your suggestion, it is a good one, apologies for not considering this before, I'll take responsibility for that as a man.

But, to treat your comment less flippantly, otherwise I'll be acting just like you, I am certain we will take this on board when the annual appeal for volunteers goes out in the close-season.

But, I would also suggest, my personal interpretation, NOT any current Club policy, is that is someone comes forward and they not deemed a suitable candidate they would not be invited to fulfil a Committee role. If they do then, if there is one vacancy and both a man and a woman candidate, if that's the right way to phrase it, I'm sure you can put me right on how to be more gender specific, then the woman would get the position. And likewise if there was more than one gap around the Boardroom table.

I am sure there will be a vacancy or two, over the next summer, so hopefully people will come forward, including female applicants.

That's me finished on this subject, I hope you accept my responses in the way they're mean, which in the main I think, regardless of some of the stuff I post when a combination of being busy/ angry/ wound up/other things on my mind, most of my replies on Urban are as 'rational' as anyone else.

I am certain we will take this on board when the annual appeal for volunteers goes out in the close-season.

But, I would also suggest, my personal interpretation, NOT any current Club policy, is that is someone comes forward and they not deemed a suitable candidate they would not be invited to fulfil a Committee role. If they do then, if there is one vacancy and both a man and a woman candidate, if that's the right way to phrase it, I'm sure you can put me right on how to be more gender specific, then the woman would get the position. And likewise if there was more than one gap around the Boardroom table.

I am sure there will be a vacancy or two, over the next summer, so hopefully people will come forward,

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Does the committee have a fixed number of members? I always assumed it was looking for more people with a broader range of ideas and initiatives and was struggling to keep the numbers up.

To be honest I'm not entirely sure if there's a set higher limit. But if it's too many it could become a bit too unwieldy to get things done, I suppose. But, as I understand it, anyone is welcome, as long as they have something positive to offer.

If you like, and if it's deemed appropriate/useful/timely, I'd be happy to run something on Buzz that says we're looking for committee members and, given the traditional male-heavy nature of football committees, perhaps it could be strongly emphasised that the role is open to anyone?

The Committee always look for new blood in the close-season, when they do it will be mentioned as always, on the Club website. Perhaps, when we do the piece, we might post it on here first, provisionally, so the wording will be suitable to all.