I was saying (in regards to the social interactions between young men and women) that girls seem to usually like guys with a lot of self confidence. Not only is that something I don't possess and don't wish to possess, it's something that seems to be discouraged in the Talmud (it says that the capacity of being embarrassed is one of three defining characteristics of Jews (the other two are merciful and kind in deed- רחמנים וגומלי חסדים)).

I am saying the following from a girl's perspective. Obviously, every girl is different and has different preferences, but this is just something I think.

Guys who exude self-confidence do tend to make better first impressions because some girls assume that self-confidence is something they would like in a potential husband. However, those who are overly self-confident eventually become tiresome to those same girls who were initially charmed by that trait. Meaning, although it is something that is impressive at first, it is not always what a girl would want when she is seriously considering someone.

there is self confidence and then there is arrogance. if one is self confident it doesnt mean one is arrogant. do you mean that you think you think women only like arrogant men? ill have you know , most women do not. and if a woman is looking for someone arrogant you dont want her.

I am assuming that we are not talking about the quiet type of self-confidence, which is private and invisible to the outside eye. I'm guessing we are dealing with blatant self-confidence, which is something more obvious to girls, unlike the internal type.

And there is a very thin, fine line between palpable self-confidence and arrogance. You never know when that charming self-confident guy will turn into an arrogant man. If a girl sticks around long enough to find out though, chances are that she'll drop him.

What girls like when they first meet someone isn't necessarily what they would want for life.

Just as girls might have a fascination with certain fictional characters (in books or movies) but would NEVER want to put up with someone like that in reality.

Hey. I saw you guys mentioned arrogance. To me arrogance isn't really a problem I'm worried about when I think about self-confidence. It's confidence itself that's the problem.

To me the greatest manifestation of self-confidence (as I'm using it) is a false feeling of entitlement, coupled with a gross lack of self-criticism.

But what I wanted to say last night was that my conclusion about this was that there's a "Confidence Continuum" (just as there's a continuum for all personality traits). On the far left is Arrogance/Pride, and Geeky/Meekness on the right.

[To start off, let me list the different personalities that I'll be referring to. First of all are two characters from the "Scrubs" television show. One character who is sufficiently humble is Elliot; she harbors no pride and sees no harm in mentioning her shortcomings (though there is an episode where she reconsiders her meekness, and becomes a "new" Elliot). Dr. Cox on the other hand may not be overly confident per-se, but he would be the last one to admit a weakness.

Next is a scenario of two guys going out on a date, the first guy asks a girl out during a party in a weak, broken and hopeful voice, and when she agrees he responds "YES! Thank you SO much!". In the other scenario the guy would tell the girl confidently "wanna' have dinner sometime?", and when she agrees he says "Alright, I'll call you at seven".

Another example in my mind is a girl from a restaurant I once worked at in the Upper West Side; she wasn't very pretty..or smart, but she seemed to gain a lot of social acceptance just because of her assertiveness. ..yet she had nothing to be 'proud' about..and still, she was well liked..]

Dr. Cox is arrogant. A little right of him is someone who's confident to ask any girl out. Right of him is the "I'll see you at 7" guy, and right of him is the Gan Asia girl. On the right side is the guy from the "fisherman and His Wife" tale. A little lest of him is someone who can't stop thanking his date for going out with him, and who's a little too open about his personality problems. I would say that the "old" Elliot would be somewhere near the center on the left, and the "new" Elliot somewhere near the center on the left.

The thing is though that being in the center might not even be helpful because according to what you guys described most women as wanting, they're (against their better judgment) looking for guys at least somewhere on the left. So I guess that even if one has gained centralism in this area one should sometimes present himself as being in the left for parnasa or shiduchim purposes.

I mean, Judaism isn't supposed to be a "meek shall inherit the earth/turn the other cheek" type of religion, so...

(In reality though, the main reason why someone wouldn't want to be the assertive guy in the party scenario is because if the girl knows how desperate he is that'll give her an unfair advantage of power in their relationship (i.e. she could order the most expensive dishes and know he will pay..or whatever)..

But that's the only reason. Otherwise who says she even wants to go out with you?). Hm. That kind of goes against what I just said..

First off, I think that women are attracted to perceived confidence. I also think that most men have the need to show confidence, even if they don't feel it... thereby creating a basis for the initial attraction. Then, once a man is comfortable enough to open up to a woman A)She starts to love him because of the faith he demonstrates in her through exposing himself B) He love an acceptance help him build confidence.

But I get that it can be worrisome, but in the long run it all works out.

(This is totally not what I wanted to write earlier, but what came to me just now. I am way too exhausted to start thinking like I was before..)

Hm. Confidence followed by openness. I feel every marriage should conform to some form of that. I mean everybody has some aspects of their personalities that they don't want to publicize.. ..yet their partner shouldn't have to find outon their own. I personally feel that before marriage it would be better if engaged couples were open with each other about all the hidden negativity in their personalities..

I agree with you 100%. I personally find it hard to expose my weaknesses to someone I care about, fearing they will respect me less. However when I do, if that person still cares for me, I feel very secure, safe, and loved. It's tough to be so open, but it feels so good once done.

על המחבר

I'm a Talmudist who has emerged from the Beit Midrash into the world with a vision that filters my reality through a Theological prism, though on the other hand I feel our religion has been corrupted by adding too much to it. I therefore attempt to reevaluate life and Judaism using thinkers in the spirit of Rational Judaism as my guide, while sometimes digressing about my station in life.
...I also talk about shidduchim sometimes!