Cherry-Picking: The Foundation of Christian Faith

Most people, Christians, I should say, reading this will argue with me that this is just not true. They take the bible as a whole and interpret it accordingly. Right. According to your own personal desires. That's called cherry-picking.

And yet some, many actually, will still argue that there's nothing wrong with finding more meaning in certain parts of the bible. Okay. Sure. I agree. If you have read the whole bible and found that certain parts of it "speak" to you personally--I have no problem with that. What I have a problem with is using the bible to justify your personal views when you only agree with certain parts of it, and when you clearly ignore or are ignorant of the rest of it. This, too, is called cherry-picking.

If you want to read the bible because for what ever reason it gives you something, okay, but, Christians, come on--why must you quote lines from Leviticus to support your stance on gay marriage, for instance, when there are lines in Deuteronomy that call for wives that aren't virgins upon marriage to be stoned to death.

Deuteronomy 22:13-21

13 If any man take a wife, and go in unto her, and hate her,14 And give occasions of speech against her, and bring up an evil name upon her, and say, I took this woman, and when I came to her, I found her not a maid:15 Then shall the father of the damsel, and her mother, take and bring forth the tokens of the damsel's virginity unto the elders of the city in the gate:16 And the damsel's father shall say unto the elders, I gave my daughter unto this man to wife, and he hateth her;17 And, lo, he hath given occasions of speech against her, saying, I found not thy daughter a maid; and yet these are the tokens of my daughter's virginity. And they shall spread the cloth before the elders of the city.18 And the elders of that city shall take that man and chastise him;19 And they shall amerce him in a hundred shekels of silver, and give them unto the father of the damsel, because he hath brought up an evil name upon a virgin of Israel: and she shall be his wife; he may not put her away all his days.20 But if this thing be true, and the tokens of virginity be not found for the damsel:21 Then they shall bring out the damsel to the door of her father's house, and the men of her city shall stone her with stones that she die: because she hath wrought folly in Israel, to play the whore in her father's house: so shalt thou put evil away from among you.

Not All Christians Feel This Way

No, they don't, and that is why cherry-picking is the foundation of their faith. Look, I applaud those of you that despite being Christian have stood up for same sex marriage. Good for you! But, unfortunately, this, too, makes you a cherry-picker. I have to ask, then, what exactly is the basis of your faith? It's obviously not the bible.

Many a Christian has answered that it is Jesus and his teachings. Okay, cherry-picking, again. Christianity springs form Judaism which comes from--that's right--the Old Testament of the bible. And even Jesus states plain as day that the Old Testament is to be followed to the letter.

Matthew 5:18

18 For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished.

John 10:35

5 If he called them ‘gods,’ to whom the word of God came—and Scripture cannot be set aside

2 Peter 20-21

"Know this first of all, that there is no prophecy of scripture that is a matter of personal interpretation, for no prophecy ever came through human will; but rather human beings moved by the holy Spirit spoke under the influence of God."

Well, if this is the case and there is a god then yes, being homosexual is an abomination--but then so is not being a virgin upon marriage, and a number of other things that Christians seem to ignore.

Really, Rush?

Blatant Cherry-pickers

I love how the GOP claims that same sex marriage is a threat to traditional marriage. This is the GOP which is 99% Christian, by the way. So, you have people like Rush Limbaugh, who has been married how many times?--calling President Obama's recent shift on gay marriage a "war against marriage." Hmmm... I guess he never read these verses:

Matthew 19:6 and Mark 10:9

“So they are no longer two but one flesh. What therefore God has joined together, let no man put asunder”

Yep, cherry-picking. You can't have it both ways, Rush. And Christians, come on! I'm only talking about marriage here, but if you have read the bible, you would know that there are a multitude of things in it that are just blatantly ignored by Christians, yet, you claim this as your faith. Things like not eating pork, not shaving your hair, not getting tattooed, not wearing poly-cotton blends...all of this is stated clearly in the bible. And I have already quoted the bible where Jesus himself says that no part of it shall be "interpreted," so you can't use that as your excuse. You can't use the excuse that the bible was written during a different time for a different people, either. Then why do you read it at all? And Jesus himself said that it is eternal. These are your rules, Christians. Why don't you follow them?

So, You See the Point

Christians, you can argue with me, or you can analyze this critically and come up with your own answer. You have to admit that it makes no sense to claim that you follow a faith based on a book that most of you have not read in its entirety, and even if you have, you ignore about 95% of it. It makes no sense. I have my own suspicions of why this is, but I will refrain form voicing them here now.

As for President Obama's shift on same sex marriage--bravo! It's about time. Civil rights should be for everyone, not just who the powers that be choose based on an ancient text that no one adheres to. Let's move forward, people.

Questions & Answers

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Andrew

8 months ago

Youre awesome, christianity has caused me extreme depression and anxiety from a young age, thank you for speaking out, anyone who hasnt felt extrene terror from the bible is in fact a cherry picker.

Matthew

17 months ago

Interesting how you cherry pick the bible Emma, and dont even understand that its entirety needs to be taken into context. Jesus came along for example and abolished teachings in the old testament and gave us new ways, including from your beloved deuteronomy. Your comments lack knowledge and understanding of the bible my dear.

Chisomo

3 years ago

I want to respond to the original article, not the comments. When it comes to cherry-picking the Bible, yes it does happen on both sides. Christians and non Christians both love to do this to try and prove there points. However, there has to be a line drawn. When a Christian seems to be cherry-picking the Bible, it may just be that they have actually read the scripture, know what it is trying to say, and have chosen a specific verse or set of verses that sums it up. However a non Christian, in most cases, has not read the scripture and is just jumping to a conclusion before understanding the full meaning. It would be like having some people in a conversation that is almost over, and you walk up having no idea what has been said. One of the original people summarize in a sentence what has been said, and you just assume you know what the whole conversation is about. All that being said, does actual cherry picking by Christians actually happen, yes.

To shed some light on the cherry picking of the OT, it should be noted that once again, some laws were to specific people groups, whereas other laws were to believers as a whole. Before someone claims a person is cherry picking from the law, they need to figure out which of these laws was people-group based and which were for all believers. The Law that Jesus is talking about in the NT that must be kept forever is not referring to people-group laws, but is referring to the commandments that were given to Moses in the desert (Exodus 20). It clearly states in the Bible that theses commandments (commonly referred to as the 10 Commandments) are written on our hearts and on our minds (Hebrews 10:16, Jeremiah 31:33).

I am not trying to argue that Christians don't cherry pick... they do. Is it right? No. Is it a sin? I think so. The Bible also clearly says we should not add to or take away from it. If you are a Christian and you cherry pick your way through the Bible, you are adding to it by bending it to your desired meaning, plus you are taking away from it by removing its actual meaning. At the same time, I don't think it is fair to make the blanket statement that Christians base their faith on cherry-picked statements. Sometimes we base our arguments on them, which is flawed, but our faith is not based on them.

I would love to have a friendly "debate" about it.

Cherry pickers

4 years ago

Agreed. Many of us Christians are cherry pickers and I don’t see anything wrong with that in fact it's human nature to seek out that which makes the most sense to us on a personal level. Instead of buying into something I don't believe, I personally see no problem in taking the best parts of it (that parts that actually do make sense) and moving on. People who expect others to believe every single facet of their religion scare me. Nothing in life is ever that dualistic or concrete. We glean what is good and move on to the next thing. And yes, considering how many books didn't make it into the Bible, someone else was doing a bit of cherry-picking, as well.

Snowy

5 years ago

TYVM you've solved all my prmlbeos

Michael

5 years ago

Hi Yenifer,Thank you so much for your interest. You can very esliay be involved in any of our activities just come. You can come to our church services on Sunday. We now have two services or meetings one at 9:30am and the other at 11:30am. You can attend Our Wednesday night service at 7pm. We simply teach through the Bible in our church services and Worship God in song. Of course it is all in English. You can also attend our English conversation clubs that meet on Wednesday mornings at 10:30 till noon and on Friday 2:30 till 4:30. You also might be interested in out Coffee Shop Nights. They are a time to come hang out, meet new people, and practice your English. We have music in English, table games, and conversation questions. We have these events on the last Friday night of each month. All of this is free and there is no need to sign up just come.I look forward to meeting you soon.

Tammys world 3

7 years ago

Emma, you know your old testament scripture. Jesus came to fulfill the law so that we wouldn't be under it's burden. The "church" hasn't stoned a woman for not being a virgin on her wedding day for quite some time! We are forgiven of our sins through the death and resurrection of Jesus. During his ministry, Jesus told people to love their neighbor as themselves. He didn't say, love people who are like you; or choose who you love. He means we are to love Everyone, no exceptions. 1Corinthians 13:13 states: 'and now these three remain: faith, hope and love. But the greatest of these is love.' Verse 12 indicates that as a human I only see the world and spirituality in part but when I join God in heaven, I will understand everything.

I choose to believe in God and other people are free to believe what they want. My life is filled with the peace and joy of God. That is priceless and can't be provided by anything in this world! I can assure you that I have not been brainwashed. I can accept you and your beliefs without thinking that you are brainwashed and stupid. Can you?

AUTHOR

emmaspeaks

7 years agofrom Kansas City

celafoe, you have been brainwashed and your assurances are about as certain as anyone's assurance can be without proof. "What can be asserted without proof, can be dismissed without proof." Hitchens.

charlie

7 years agofrom From Kingdom of God living on Planet earth in between the oceans

Then you have written not one but many false hubs.

Sorry but that stab at me is incorrect.

I wont waste any more time here with you as you do not understand the scriptures and have all the answers. wrong but answers

But will again assure you that there are NO CONTRADICTIONS in scripture. there are only people that think there are because they do not understand either the scriptures or the character and nature of God. Those led by the Holy Spirit of God rather than their own spirit know this is true as scripture proves

AUTHOR

emmaspeaks

7 years agofrom Kansas City

celafoe, I seriously doubt you have ever read the bible. You are just regurgitating what you heard in church, or from your parents. The bible does contradict itself in too many ways to excuse. There are literally thousands of examples. I've written hubs on them.

charlie

7 years agofrom From Kingdom of God living on Planet earth in between the oceans

any one that understands the bible knows that the laws of the old testament are no longer in effect. They were fulfilled by Jesus and thus were completed and done away with. Yes there is much to be learned from the old testament but we live in the new testament, esp of the character and nature of God. but We follow Jesus not the law of Moses.

and by the way the bible does not EVER contradict itself, only those that do not understand it think it does because they do not allow God to show them the truth.

AUTHOR

emmaspeaks

7 years agofrom Kansas City

Virgina, what you just said in your first paragraph is cherry-picking. You have chosen your own spiritual path, which begs the question, why refer to the bible at all? As for every established religion having great principles...I don't think so. You choose your own great principles and if they don't fit in to the religion you ascribe to, you do exactly what you just said, which is to make your own path, which is different from anyone else's. That, too, is cherry-picking. Moral values like love, honesty, sympathy for fellow humans, ect. are not found in books or religions, they are already within us. It is within our human nature to be good to our neighbor because it ensures that they will be good to us. This is an observable fact in nature. No religion required. If you want to attribute your values to a book, a god, or a religion, you are doing yourself a disservice, and you are exactly the kind of person this article is directed to.

Virginia

7 years ago

What do you feel is right? I could tell you what I understand to be true in my spiritual path, but my path is not your path, is not his path, is not her path.

I know my path is right for me because there is love in it. It doesn't matter to me what people believe and know in their hearts because love is the overriding principle in my path. Love for all things and all beings.

That sounds hokey, but every established religion has it as a great principle. And if a person is an atheist, one still can't deny that love is a moving force even in his or her own life.

In whatever holy book I look at, I look for things that resonate with me and look like good ways to live. Not to quote to others (unless they ask me my favorites) but to live a good life for myself.

I would actually be interested in learning more about the hermeneutic which the "Christians are cherry-pickers" crowd are applying to their interpretation of the Bible to determine if Christians are indeed ignoring parts of the Bible. That is, to be sure that the crowd is not cherry-picking the Bible themselves. I have never seen such a hermeneutic outline in a systematic manner. I have only seen the crowd appeal to some vague notion of "plain" or "literal" reading, but none of them could or would explain what principles, concepts, or guidelines provided the foundation for their interpretations.

AUTHOR

emmaspeaks

8 years agofrom Kansas City

Yep, he made the point that the bible contradicts itself. Thanks for playing.

MilesArmbruster

8 years agofrom Somewhere on the journey

This is the most terrifying hub I have ever read. The only comfort is that you pick and choose your assumptions and the data you use to support your argument. And since your argument is that people pick and choose their assumptions and data to support the conclusion they want going in, you have only proven that your argument is the ultimate example of cherry-picking, and therefore, to the relief of all, untrue. If you are going to say that people start with a method for determining the truth before they look at the data, it would make sense to not do the same thing in making your assertions. Oh, josell already made this point.

Sooner28

8 years ago

So you've proven the Bible contradicts itself. Great point! I agree Josell.

josell

8 years ago

Let me quote Jiveturkeey:

I find it odd that somebody calling out cherry-picking made her case by quoting Biblical passages that she felt supported her specific point, and no others. That's so hypocritical it almost rises to the level of performance art.

Sooner28

8 years ago

Don't you wish people would actually defend their assertions Emma? Some people on here are just ridiculous and like to spout opinions without offering any evidence for them at all.

Glad we have people like you here who are willing to shed light on issues in our society! If more people engaged in critical inquiry, they would be less likely to take indefensible conclusions.

AUTHOR

emmaspeaks

8 years agofrom Kansas City

What ever happened to facts, logic, evidence and scientific method, Gusser? Aren't those better ways of coming to a conclusion about something instead of seeing which side is more popular?? Global warming is a scientific fact, buddy. Gay rights are civil rights, get over it. Liberalism, socialism, and communism are ideologies, they can't be proven or unproven. Man, you are one confused dude.

No prob. Bad grammar irritates the crap out of me, too. And I agree about the ignorant of history part, too. I love how so many claim that the bible is a historical document. It isn't. I even wrote a hub about it. It's a hagiography because anything that has talking serpents in it, can't be too historical.

Sean Bradbury

8 years agofrom Tempe, A.Z.

I have come to realize two things in my little over two months on hubpages..

The first, is that people are completely ignorant of history. If this is a failing of the school system, or an unwillingness to learn I have no clue.

The second, is that there are a lot of people who seem to want to write, but can't spell a lick.

Personally, if you don't know your history and are guessing at it, you shouldn't be wasting time trying to tell it to other people. Gather your facts first. And if you can't spell, or your just unsure of how something is spelled, get a spell checker or look it up before you post it!

Sorry Emma, had to let that out...

AUTHOR

emmaspeaks

8 years agofrom Kansas City

Yeah, I know. I tried reasoning with him...

Sooner28

8 years ago

Wow Gusser seems to not understand elementary logic. Not surprising. The fallacy "ad populum," or more commonly known as appeal to the people, is an attempt to bolster a claim by pointing out the numbers in favor of a belief without actually doing any intellectual work to defend it.

I'm sure Gusser would not agree if 90% of people were liberal that liberalism was all of the sudden correct! Clearly not. It would be nice if you actually provided an argument for your claim, rather than trying to use the old kid line "but he is doing it too!"

AUTHOR

emmaspeaks

8 years agofrom Kansas City

It's actually about five billion in all, if you want to get technical, and yeah, they are morons. Anyone who believes in imaginary deities needs to have their head examined. Look at you, Gusser, defending the lunatics that believe in god. I bet you wouldn't be defending them if they all believed in Zeus. What's the difference? Or, do you mean to tell me that people that believe in Zeus aren't morons? Or, is it that because so many of them believe in god, it's okay--strength in numbers--that kind of thing? Look, I really don't care what anyone believes as long as you keep it to yourself. Once you enter the domain of the public, be ready for ridicule. So, before you go all getting civil rights in my face, let me set the record straight. Yes, if you believe in imaginary deities I think you are an idiot, but I value your right to believe in them and it is MY right to think you are an idiot. Is that clear enough for you?

Gusser

8 years ago

I'm sure glad you're here to tell over 500 million people that believe in God that they're morons and you aren't.

AUTHOR

emmaspeaks

8 years agofrom Kansas City

Only if they cling to it and base their entire existence on it.

Gusser

8 years ago

And don't forget the Jews. They use that bible too. More misguided morons, right?

AUTHOR

emmaspeaks

8 years agofrom Kansas City

Yep. Hagiographies carry about as much weight as a weekly tabloid. After you get done with all the cross referencing, you may as well have just skipped them all together and stuck with real historical documents.

Gusser

8 years ago

Now emma, you know better than this. The Curan mentions God, even the same God the Bible does. It also mentions Jesus, just not as the son of God. Are Muslims just a bunch of misguided morons in your book too?

AUTHOR

emmaspeaks

8 years agofrom Kansas City

No, my issue is quite clear. I'm not looking for theological debate. I simply wonder how a christian can pick a verse from the bible to support his personal opinion, while ignoring the rest of it. I use the gay marriage issue as an example but there are others. It's clear that the bible IS the basis of your faith. If it's not, why read it? Why bother with it at all. All you know about god and or jesus is in the bible because there is nothing written about either of them anywhere else.

lstCitizen

8 years agofrom California

Oh. Well if your issue is Jesus, then write your hub about that.

AUTHOR

emmaspeaks

8 years agofrom Kansas City

1st citizen, I'm gonna stop you right there. What is your belief based on then? Any way you paint it, it IS based on the bible. You can spin it any way you want to but that is the reality. There is absolutely nothing outside of the bible to corroborate the existence of Jesus, so if jesus is the basis of your faith, then that, too equals the bible.

lstCitizen

8 years agofrom California

Emma, I understand why you would think Christians are cherry-picking from the Bible. I'm a Christian and in some ways, I agree with you.

Here are some facts that might shed some light on your analysis. Mainly, it’s incorrect to think that the Christian Church is based on the Bible. In fact the Church was around for nearly 400 years before the Bible was even established. Now it is true that much of it (the Old Testament) was written before Christianity, but the Gospels and letters etc of the NT were written while the Christian Church was first getting started. Then of course the printing press didn’t even come along until the 1500’s, and most Christians were illiterate during that time anyway. So you see the idea that Christianity is based on the Bible is totally false.

You are correct to point to those who preach that the “bible alone” and everything in it taken literally, is the complete guide book for Christianity. This is known as the doctrine of “sola scriptura”, and it is a heresy that began in the 1500’s by Martin Luther. Today there are thousands of denominations known as “Fundamentalists” all claiming to have the correct interpretation of everything in the Bible (but all disagreeing with each other). Their intentions might be good, but they’ve been misguided and don’t have a reasonable answer for you.

Someone pointed out that the Bible is not a book, but a collection of books. This is correct. We can think of the Bible as a little “library” of books. As such, the books shouldn’t be categorized all in the same “genre”. Some are books of history, but some books are more like poetry. Many of the NT books are actually letters. Obviously we don’t take a historical account the same way we would a poem or a letter. By the way, none are science books and so the whole argument between Darwin evolution and Genesis creation is silly really.

I am a Roman Catholic. If you hate me for this then I consider that a blessing and that you prove at least one Bible verse to be correct (in Lk 21:17). Then again, maybe you don’t hate me because everyone knows that Catholics don’t read the Bible. Actually this is another false idea and your hub on cherry-picking illustrates this. In fact if a devout Catholic attends Daily and Sunday Mass, they will hear the main points of the entire Old Testament and every word of the New Testament every three years. Most Protestant Christians will only hear their pastor’s favorite Bible passages. And so contrary to popular opinion, it is only in the Catholic Church that you will get the Bible in its totality.

As for cherry-picking, there are many examples of “Proof texts” that Fundamentalists use to argue with Catholics and each other. For example I’m always amused when I hear the reference to “Call no man your father…” in Mt 23:9. And so why do we evil Catholics call our priests “Father”? This is one of the sweetest cherries to pick! Like all the others, there is a biblically sound and perfectly reasonable explanation. Sadly, many Christians fall for this and Emma, you are correct to point this out.

And so the Christian Church, properly understood as the church started by Jesus Christ, is the one to which Jesus delegated the authority to teach what He taught. And so it is only the Catholic Church that has that authority. The Catholic Church did use that authority to establish the Bible. All other Christian churches were started by men in some kind of revolt. We Catholics believe that the Word of God comes to us in both word and text. By the way, even the Bible states that (see 2 Thes 2:15). And so Emma, to avoid the cherry-picking mistake that you call out, we have to understand how to interpret everything in the Bible. On our own, of course we can interpret the Bible to mean anything, and in that case, it would mean nothing.

Dale Hyde

8 years agofrom Tropical Paradise on Planet X

Gusser, I have viewed the site and clicked on several "Obama" stories, but fail to find anything to support your stance on his 1996 opinion. Time is not allowing me to delve into the site deeper and deeper. I had supposed you had the page and link readily accessible and would be able to share it here.

Heading out for the night. Hope all rest well and I shall check back in tomorrow. :)

Gusser

8 years ago

Dale--Try politico. You will no longer be MIA. Good Night all

AUTHOR

emmaspeaks

8 years agofrom Kansas City

Well, I must retire for the night. I hate to leave this heated discussion but I will pop in tomorrow bright and early. Gusser, I have no idea how you are correlating this to "bible picking" but whatever. The man has now taken a public stance so whatever his opinion was before, who cares. Whether he "evolved" or not, who cares. What's important is now and moving forward. Night all.

AUTHOR

emmaspeaks

8 years agofrom Kansas City

SO WHAT! Are you kidding me!!! SO freaking what!!! Are you going to be stuck on this trivial little thing? Seriously?? There are so many more important issues to focus on. MOVE ON!

Dale Hyde

8 years agofrom Tropical Paradise on Planet X

*pops back in to pick up that elusive link from Gusser for this 1996 opinon* Oh, I see it is MIA!

Gusser

8 years ago

Einder--LISTEN to his statement. He claims to have evolved into this opinion. THAT is the LIE. The point is his followers will believe anything their "savior" tells them. Just like the Bible pickers. Pot meet kettle.

AUTHOR

emmaspeaks

8 years agofrom Kansas City

I think you hit the nail on the head, Einder. Like I said, haters gonna hate.

Sean Bradbury

8 years agofrom Tempe, A.Z.

Gusser, I have honestly have no clue what your on about, just that your on about something. If Obama's opinion was the same in 1996 as it is today, then he didn't lie, he just stated it over again. I never heard of him saying that his opinion "evolved." I don't see what point your trying to make, unless your just trying to find a reason to hate him.

AUTHOR

emmaspeaks

8 years agofrom Kansas City

Whatever Gusser. He came out of the closet, so what. Are you saying that every person who keeps something a secret about themselves for obvious reasons is a liar. Then I guess I'm a liar, because it took me a long time before I could come out in support of gays, too. I kept it a secret because of repercussions that I was afraid of. Instead of criticizing him for this, you should support him. If he let it slip once, and then recanted, and now has come out with it again, SO WHAT!!!!

Gusser

8 years ago

emma--the problem is that most of your respondents actually believe he "evolved" on this issue. He didn't. It's the same thing he believed in 1996. I'm not saying he should not have admitted this, Just that he has fooled many supporters into believing his "evolution". He is a proven liar by this fact.

AUTHOR

emmaspeaks

8 years agofrom Kansas City

Gusser, he shifted positions slightly to get elected. SO what! Because of the way things are you have to. It's no different than nodding and agreeing with your friends to avoid a dispute. You are really turning this into a bigger deal than it is and in not the right way. As Daughter of Maat has stated, the point is, he is the president now and his public support of same sex marriage is huge in a good way. Get over the past and move forward. I'm not going to waste time speculating whether he's lying now or not. I'll see what happens with my own two eyes.

Charles Hilton

8 years ago

@Guesser...

So, every person who changes their mind is a liar?

Changing your mind because of new information or mitigating factors isn't lying, it's evolving. It's altering one's course in favor of a better alternative. And I'm glad Obama has the courage to change his opinion in favor of doing the right thing. Which is more than can be said of the punitive-minded posturing hypocrites who oppose him.

I doubt that even a paragon of virtue such as yourself lives-up to the rock-ribbed moral exactitude that you demand of your opponents.

Dale Hyde

8 years agofrom Tropical Paradise on Planet X

Okay, Gusser, I work elsewhere and such and have only a limited amount of time, so instead of me having to spend time Googling this "opinion" you mention, could you provide a link? Not that it matters to the overall scope of what is being discussed in this hub and the majority of the comments, but I would like to see the 1996 opinion you reference.

Gusser

8 years ago

He didn't change his mind. HE LIED His opinion was this in 1996. He just finally grew a set to stop lying about it. And because "politicians all lie"--maybe he's lying this time.

Melissa Flagg COA OSC

8 years agofrom Rural Central Florida

I agree, unfortunately at the heart of this issue is the belief that marriage can only be between a man and a woman, which is based on the bible making it a religious belief. Now, the majority of states have made constitutional ammendments stating marriage can only be between a man and a woman. There's no separation of church and state there and human rights are being trampled because of it.

Sooner28

8 years ago

I hope equality occurs soon DaugherofMaat. I'm not sure with bigots running entire states it will happen anytime soon.

Melissa Flagg COA OSC

8 years agofrom Rural Central Florida

@gusser Name one politician who doesn't lie. Again, you're missing the big picture. The issue is what matters and the fact that it has been brought to the forefront. By stating his opinion, the president has ignited discussion and, hopefully, a change in public opinion toward equality for everyone.

AUTHOR

emmaspeaks

8 years agofrom Kansas City

@Gusser, WHO CARES??? Can't a person change their mind?? Why cling to the past? His stance now is clear, let's move forward.

AUTHOR

emmaspeaks

8 years agofrom Kansas City

Good point, Dayle. Yes, unfortunately, despite whatever it's "intention" might have been, it is clearly only use to dominate the weak and ignorant.

Gusser

8 years ago

It matters because you stated he changed his own opinion. HE LIED.

Dale Hyde

8 years agofrom Tropical Paradise on Planet X

I did forget to add one thought and belief I have. The Bible is probably the most widely used manipulative tool and published works in the history of mankind to control the masses. It is a work of convenience to those who chose to abuse it at any level whether it be cherry-picking or for manipulation and control, as well as creating fear and trauma.

Melissa Flagg COA OSC

8 years agofrom Rural Central Florida

@gusser, what does it matter? However, he, himself, said his opinion changed based on what his daughter said at the dinner table. Did you not see the interview? The fact that the issue has been brought to light and he has made his opinion clearly known is what is really important. You're missing the big picture by analyzing the details, which is a classic red herring.

AUTHOR

emmaspeaks

8 years agofrom Kansas City

Thanks Charles! I look forward to reading yours as well.

Charles Hilton

8 years ago

emmaspeaks, you are a breath of fresh air! Thank you so much for writing this and we desperately need more courageous hubbers like you.

And josell, Emma wasn't addressing theology, per se, but, the Bible in particular. As for the Bible being a collection of books---so what?! Christians still treat it as one holy book containing the very word of God, so your points are moot.

I'm glad I found you, Emma. You're an excellent writer and your choice of topics(from viewing your profile page) are intriguing and I will be checking them out.

Gusser

8 years ago

His stated opinion in 1996 was the same one he just opinined on. No Change. Look it up.

AUTHOR

emmaspeaks

8 years agofrom Kansas City

Yes, definitely! And I agree with you, Daughter of Maat, about marriage. I'm no fan of it personally, but it's a right everyone should have. I've been with my man for 10 years and we have no intention of ever getting married, but that's our choice. Everyone should have the option, though.

Dale Hyde

8 years agofrom Tropical Paradise on Planet X

I do "smell" a hub in the works, Daughter of Maat! You go! I look forward to it. :)

Melissa Flagg COA OSC

8 years agofrom Rural Central Florida

Exactly! The opinion of the President is supposed to reflect that of the american people. So, not only is his shift in opinion vital as a catalyst like you said, it also shows that the public may be headed in the right direction or at least open to discuss the issue further, which in and of itself is a massive step forward. This issue is really important to me. While I, personally, think marriage belittles the emotion of love itself, I believe everyone has the right to make that choice for themselves and if they chose to do so they should be able to make that commitment just like the rest of us.

:D I think I see a hub in there somewhere huh?

AUTHOR

emmaspeaks

8 years agofrom Kansas City

Yeah, this is still a huge step. Sorry, Gusser, but people that keep trying to downplay this by saying things like what you just said kind of make me think that no matter what he does, haters gonna hate.

Dale Hyde

8 years agofrom Tropical Paradise on Planet X

Well stated Daughter of Maat! Obama's actions also is a catalyst to bring and keep the issue in the forefront of the media and create much needed focus to the topic and area of need.

Melissa Flagg COA OSC

8 years agofrom Rural Central Florida

@gusser Yes, I know. However, the fact that the President of the United States changed his own opinion in and of itself is a MASSIVE step toward equal rights for these people. That's the point I was trying to make. He is the leader of the "free-world" and as such his opinion matters greatly, whether or not you a want to admit it.

Gusser

8 years ago

Obama changed nothing. He backed States Rights to decide this issue.

AUTHOR

emmaspeaks

8 years agofrom Kansas City

Very true, Daughter of Maat. I'm so glad Obama took this step. This is HUGE in terms of civil rights and stepping into the 21st. century.

Melissa Flagg COA OSC

8 years agofrom Rural Central Florida

You're quite welcome Civil War Bob!! I much prefer rationale to the emotional and illogical rhetoric the christians use to force their followers to conform. What I think scares me more than anything, is the possibility of Mitt Romney taking office. Obama changing his mind on gay marriage is a MASSIVE step toward equality for these people who only want the right to legalize their commitment to one another. Like Dale said, I think it's phenomenal that Obama saw the truth in his daughters' opinions. When an innocent child says "what's wrong with gay marriage?" we should realize that it doesn't matter who you fall in love with. All that matters is that you have the right in this so-called free country to legally acknowledge that love if you so choose.

AUTHOR

emmaspeaks

8 years agofrom Kansas City

Thanks for the comments guys. Civil War Bob, civil rights are for everyone. And I don't think that will ever happen, but if it does, you bet I'll speak out against it. I'm anti-irrationality, not anti-any-particlar-group-of-people-that-don't-agree-with-me. That was hard to type.

Civil War Bob

8 years agofrom Glenside, Pennsylvania

Good hub, Emma...voted up, useful, interesting. Question: will you advocate "Civil rights should be for everyone, not just who the powers that be" when the tables turn, the Bible is declared a hate speech document, and Christians who proclaim whatever they've cherry-picked get chucked into the concentration camps George Bush had built for foreign terrorists, given that we're now considered domestic terrorists by many? Will you be my pen pal? Just wonderin'...

Daughter of Maat...thanks for sharing this!

PS, Emma: cherry picking seems the natural follow up to apple biting back in Eden, I think! ;)

Sean Bradbury

8 years agofrom Tempe, A.Z.

Very well spoken Emma. There are many that continue to cherry-pick want they want to be true and relevant and ignore everything else. This is why I find fault with the religion itself. Will definitely socially share and vote up.

AUTHOR

emmaspeaks

8 years agofrom Kansas City

Thanks guys!! Josell, about your comment, what can I say. You are proving my point. Instead of christian you should call yourselves cherry-pickers. Collection of books or not, Jesus clearly states that they are the eternal law, and you just admitted that some are more "useful" than others. I think that pretty much defines cherry-picker.

Sooner28

8 years ago

Great hub Emma. I've written about this myself.

Conservative Christians claim on the one hand that the Bible is divinely inspired, then on the other, they engage in theological gymnastics to try to preserve the worldview when troublesome verses are pointed out. They mock Muslims and Mormons who do the same thing, but apparently cannot see the plank in their own eyes!

What kind of God would ever sanction many of the Old Testament verses? Furthermore, why does the Bible never condemn slavery? It's truly ludicrous to suggest the Bible is a moral guide to anything. People have a conscience, and they then use that to pick and choose what is acceptable by today's standards.

They just like to use the Bible to feebly attempt to justify their own bigotry. Voted up.

josell

8 years ago

Sorry, but your article lacks basic theology.

First, not all laws in the Bible are from God. Some of them are civil laws (both kinds are separated in different books and chapters). In fact, punishments are civil issues, while religion used to teach what is good or bad.

However, there is a Divine Law in the Old Testament, and this verse is a reference to it:

"Matthew 5:18; 18 For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. "

So, sorry, but the Bible is not a book... it's a collection of books, and some of them are more useful and relevant for Christians than others.

However, is easier to criticize things without knowing basic skills about them.

Dale Hyde

8 years agofrom Tropical Paradise on Planet X

What an outstanding, useful, interesting and amazing hub well written! I fully support your stance and views contained within this hub 100 percent. As a "former Christian", and even a "former" Jehovah's Witness, turned Wiccan High Priest, I point out that these are some of the main reasons I left the Christian path.

Our Mayor is openly gay, Annise Parker, was thrilled by this change of stance by President Obama, by the way. I love the way that President Obama changed his stance on gay marriage to a positive one mainly based on discussions with his own daughters.

Voted up as well as clicked on all in the first sentence there. :) Next step share on Facebook, Pinerest, Twitter and Google+!

Melissa Flagg COA OSC

8 years agofrom Rural Central Florida

Another fantastic hub Emma! Human rights are just that HUMAN rights. Whether your gay, straight, black, white, pagan, christian, muslim etc. it just doesn't matter. We are all members of the human race and we need to treat each other as such. I'm so glad Obama finally stood up for gay marriage. In our current society, two people who may not love each other and merely tolerate each other, have more of a right to get married than to gay people who are madly in love and that's just not right.

Voted up, interesting, awesome... oh forget it, I clicked all of them and shared it. :D

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