Thanks Dorian Black. It sounds simple, but that doesn't mean it easy How can somebody do what you wrote? With doing Tai Chi regularly? Do you recommend some books? Teacher?

Yeah, I recommend the Old-School/Martial-Arts way of Temple Style Taichi as taught in the 70's by Grandmaster Waysun Liao in Chicago! Waysun Liao wrote a great book about it's theory in the 70's, the "Taichi Classics". It's the most-sold book about Taichi in the world btw. The second book I would recommend to you is "Tao - The way of God", also written by Waysun Liao.These books will explain to you the theory behind true internal alchemy.But Waysun Liao doesn't teach this Nei Kung exercises anymore...at least not openly and not with his DVD's.The only remaining source for sale is Gary J. Clyman's "Mind Light Nei Kung" Set, his own "streamlined" and into workouts organized version of the Temple Style Taichi Nei Kung system that he learned. You can buy it on his website Chikung.com for $3.450. It contains the following items:-Tidal Wave Chi Kung DVD set (2 DVD's, around 3 hours. Here you learn essential Nei Kung exercises from the temple style taichi system and then you get the "Daily practice routine" where you can do this exercises, condensed in 28 minutes. Every Chi Kung system is always a small piece of a bigger Nei Kung system...at least it's the case with temple style. They are true Nei Kung exercises but not the whole system.)-Gold Sash DVD (1 DVD with a Tai Chi workout)-Green Sash DVD (1 DVD, around 1hour, with the exercises you will use to project jing, once you have it...Liao talks shortly about these in the taichi classics book in the chapter "How to transfer (project) internal power")-Blue Sash DVD (1 DVD, around 1,5 hours, where you learn the rest of the internal Nei Kung exercises)- and finally: 2 DVD's with the 4 one hour Nei Kung routines A,B,C,D. You then rotate these routines and they will lead you to Jing and beyond...they include all the internal Nei Kung exercises of the temple style taichi system.-The Nei Kung Bible: All the internal exercises explained in form of photoshopped photos with Gary. It helps very much in understanding what he does on his Nei Kung DVD'S but I would clearly NOT suggest you to buy the Nei Kung Bible ONLY! I couldn't understand what and how to do the stuff by reading the bible. It's also much better to have Gary standing right in front of you on the screen, going with you through the exercises and motivating you to give your best, believe me that! -the Chi Kung Bible: an older book of Gary about the PPT / Chi Kung training.Also, back in the 70's under Liao, you first had to go through the entire Taichi moving meditation system and be perfect in it, then you had the chance to learn the precious Nei Kung stuff! Only Gary and a few other people made it this far. As far as I know, Gary fell from grace with Liao because he taught the precious Nei Kung stuff to people FIRST without grinding them through the Taichi stuff before!

All right, now some quotes of interest about Gary Clyman I gathered so far:

Testimonials for Gary J. Clyman's Internal Power & for the efficiency of his Mind Light Nei Kung system:

There seems to be some confusion over Gary's statement and that's understandable. Gary isnt saying that the Chinese character for "chi" is what's in the characters of tai chi. He's saying that the actual manifestation of chi, the way he describes it, is what is involved in tai chi, or supposed to be anyway.

Gary will happily demonstrate on anyone who wants to doubt his training. His training isnt something to be overlooked or mocked. Hands down his system is the best system I've ever seen or trained in. Keep in mind that his teacher is Waysun Liao who is top notch. I cant really speak for him. I have an opinion though, if it matters lol.

It's my understanding that when people actually project what they call "chi" that it's a more refined chi substance, jing. You can feel your own chi flow as I can feel my own chi flow but the vibration of my/your chi is on too high a level for me/you to project to me/you, unless it's been condensed through some sort of qigong, meditation, etc. That's Gary's say on it, I may have misquoted him or just completely fabricated that from poor memory but if I recall correctly that's how he sees it.

Personally I agree completely with Clyman. I also think that most qigong masters say what he says but maybe in a different way. Another way to view it (poor example warning) is like a big river or lake or whatever. The water source is great and all but if you build a dam then you can really use the source. Very poor example choice.

I guess when I see statements like that, it makes me question whether individuals like this truly know what they are talking about. These types of people then go on writing books on subjects as fascinating as Qigong and really don't understand what it is, teaching nonsense to students to make a quick buck.

I was able to get through about a third of the article as I do find it interesting reading. On a similar note, there was also a thread on this forum with Sifu Doucherty talking about Qi as if it was irrelevant.

Just makes me a bit sad to see people make comments of this sort as it truly discredits their expertise.Of course he knows what hes talking about.His master was waysun liao, you can go and see him, punch him and kick him in the torso to test his iron shirt and ask him to discharge his jing into you.Have fun with your insides bouncing around and collapsing to the floor once he does it.He also has an interesting story to tell you about sifu wong kiew kit if you ask him.Im not going to say anything or go into details, but lets just say Mr clyman is not impressed with his level of expertise.

Ok let me clear some things up , ive read all of wong kiew kits books and i got bad deviations from his practices back in 2002. They lasted for years but i kept on practicing and practicing because i thought that the bad feelings were the chi clearing things out, not only that but i am aware that there are many others suffering deviations also. I did not insult him i stated that clyman did , but in reality he deserves my insults. He doesnt explain things clearly enough in his books and people have suffered.On to Gary now .I went to see Gary Clyman in person, he is everything he says he is and much more.I weigh 84 kilos(not fat) and punched him and his other top guys as hard as i could, ive trained with pro boxers and i can deliver a punch that will knock any man down.I delivered powerfull(liver and spleen) shots and they didnt tense up.When i punched Gary it felt like my wrist bent and could have snapped(he told me he could have snapped it if he wanted to) Not only that but his fa jing demonstrations were very impressive as was his emotional liposuction, he sent me flying with a light slap and i felt my insides bouncing around.Not only that but he said that he hadnt really hit me yet, I refused to test the next level off power.I have his entire system and he is superior to wong kiew kit by a 1000 lifetimes.That is my opinion and if it gets me kicked off then boo hoo hoo.I dont really care! Gary Clyman knows exactly what he is talking about and his stuff works way better than wongs.There are no insults just facts.GET OVER IT

Yeah, I know Gary. He is a very good martial tai chi guy in Chicago. I've played with him a few times and he always wins very easily. He is big on meditation, but he also has the goods. He was orginally trained in martial tai chi, Temple Style I believe, and also knows shia chiao (I know I can't spell).

He is also one of the few practitioners I know who will demonstrate to anyone. He will gladly take anyone's punch to demonstrate the Golden Bell/Iron Shirt stuff. He also has very strong fa jing. Particularly for the non-believers out there if you want proof that this stuff work go to Chicago and ask him to discharge on you. I've never known any non-believer to ask twice.

Equally impressive his students can all also do the Golden Bell stuff. His good students can also discharge.

Hell, he sent me flying into a brick wall with only four fingers and I weighted almost 100kg at the time.

Yes I've seen Gary do this to a variety of people all of whom had fighting experience. He has done it to me (judo, budotaijitsu, shotokan, boxing and alot of military unarmed combat stuff). I watched him do it to a 5th dan Jeet Kun Do guy who was about 215 lbs and a tad over six feet tall, and an experience boxer in the middle of a match, as well as a few other guys.

To answer the other person, jing is a chinese medical and meditative term that means something like cultivated essense. In fa jing this cultivated essense, which takes years to get apparently, is disharged out of the fighter into the target. It feels like you are getting hit with a brick.

Gary has his opinions on the meditative side of the art, but he can back it up on the street. One ofthe nice things is that he is willing to demonstrate this on anyone who shows up.

I would suggest you call or go visit him in Chicago if you want to see a tai chi guy who has it. He is outspoken, but very friendly. And not in the weird ass cult/I am the master of the universe way that many of the frauds in this form present themselves.

Sam,Thanks for the reply. I appreciate the sincerity. Gary is also a very skilled meditator and accupuncturist with about 30 years of experience. I've spent a few days, on a couple of different occaisions, following him around his accupuncture practice and he is very impressive in his treatment of patients. I can't speak to AIDS patients, but based off of his record in treating other people I don't think it is unreasonable that he can help with an immune system dysfunction or health in general.

I got interested in the healing modalities after breaking my back in a skydiving accident about 2 1/2 years ago. After one treatment Gary took me from 50% to about 80 to 85% despite having done all the other rehabilitative/drug thearapies offered by conventional medicine. I have also seen him help people with circulatory and respiratory problems dramatically. As well as treating people who were suffering from mental and psychological problems as well with good results using the emotional liposuction techniqes.

In a world of frauds in the meditative/martial arts communities he is one of the few I have seen who had credibility in person. He is very honest about his abilities and will be the first to tell you if he cannot do something. Addtionally all of his stuff is solidly built off of technique and practice. No mythical nonsense. Everything is you do A and you get B. He is also open about the fact that his ability to do any of this is based off of lots of experimentation, good teachers, and years of spending several hours a day working on all of this. People out there can do some of this stuff, but the amount of effort required to do so is extreme and built over time. His techniques and training timelines closely mirror what I have seen among the few other credible practitioners I have met over the years and correspond to my own experiences which came from outside their systems.

I know Gary Clyman quite well. While his personality sets alot of people off he has some of the best martial tai chi I've ever seen. If you are in Chicago and want to see what real tai chi looks like go see Clyman. I never met anyone half as good while in living in Beijing.

BTW, Waysun Liao is no longer teaching the material he taught to Gary. As often happens as teachers age they find a new focus for their efforts. If you want to get the martial side of tai chi from Waysun's lineage you'll need to see Gary. Gary is very honest about what he is and is not capable of doing and I've never met anyone who doubted his skills who actually met him. Many people do not like Gary because of his personality. Too bad for them. I've often seen Gary repair the damage caused by other less concerned teachers and I've never seen him permanently hurt anyone either.

Out of a handful of teachers I've met who "had the goods" he is one of the most giving and certainly more concerned with his students' well being than most. He is quite intense. That is the reason why he is good at what he does. That said he is neither crazy or dangerous to the people around him. He just despises time wasters and chases them off. That cannot be said of all of the people I have studied with.

We all like to think that our teachers should be paradigms of virtue, have the wisdom of warrior sages and an angelic outward appearance. Reality rarely comes across that way. Several of my teachers completely terrified me and I often wondered if I would survive their training. Gary for example has never beaten me unconscious. The same cannot be said of a female teacher of mine who sits just over five feet tall and weights in at under 100 pounds. Likewise, the closest I ever came to death during training happened while going through a particularly intense series of trials at the hands of an angelic senior citizen that primarily practiced a school whose focus is out of body projection. It always surprises me when others meet these folks and are completely freaked out.

I have met at least a dozen or more of Liaos's students including those who have been practicing for over 30 years. It looks like this to me:

20 years ago or more he was teaching good stuff. I haven't seen any students who have been with him for less than 10-15 years who have in significant skill. Some of the older guys are really good and really nice. I know the training is very different than it used to be, because the older guys told me so.

The newer students seem to be way way off in some fantasy land. The older ones seem to have some base in reality. I don't think Liao actually teaches any Taichi anymore. If he does, just barely. It's all student teaching.

I think anyone with a solid six months of Jiujitsu could take out virtually any of the students who have less than ten years of taichi practice under there belts.

Even the guys who have been with him for over 20 years still say he hasn't given them everything which is very interesting since Liao himself was in training for less than 10.

I have touched hands in a teaching environment with Liao about half a dozen times. He is really really good! And, yes soft like a willow. Truely amazing. Very powerful.

To Liao, from his mouth, as I understood him say it, the purpose of taichi is to purify and return to the Mother, the Dao itself. I believe that is true.

It is also a nice excuse for students who don't want to face reality. They can just pretend that their taichi is good because they are "returning to the Dao." When someone puts them on the ground or into the wall they can respond with "That was really physical," or "Taichi is not a martial art," or any other nonsense that will help them justify the fact that they don't have anything to show for their training. I feel really sad for them. Especially because Liao is so good.

My friend and Thetaobums-member LittlePie took part in Gary Clyman's „Personal Power Training“ and tested Gary's Jing: Gary touched him slightly on the shoulder and LittlePie went down like "hit by a sledge-hammer". Gary told him that he only used ONE vibration...he could have used HUNDREDS if he wanted to.

A: I have seen lots of people diss him and it's understandable. When I first spoke with him I nearly flew out to Chicago to fight him as he called me a looser. But he is actually a nice guy. Everyone has a personality and some are more eccentric then others. If we let our own pride and arrogance get in the way we could miss something valuable.

His training works. When I say it works I am talking about lightning in your arms. You want Jing or power for Martial Arts this will deliver. It seems to be mechanical in that you get just what you put in. I have met him and tested his Fa Jing and he has it for sure. At the time I was 240+ pounds and he made me leave the ground and hit a wall.

One thing to remember is that when he is presenting is Waysun Liao's entire system. This alone for me was a reason to train. I thought.... 'I can spend the next 20 years of my life to get some of this info from Master liao or I can get it all now' This is a wrong attitude but It was a long while ago and I was a bit younger.

To put in short.... you fill the dantien, burn some pathways, open up your channels, vibrate the energy and more. I remember when I first got some effects.... I had been feeling 'heat' and tingling' for ages. Threshold stuff. Then one day while training suddenly my arms felt like I was literally holding power lines. This grew to be everywhere. After, I noticed that when not training if I got emotional it would start im my arms on it's own. If I hit something a freakin lightning bolt would fly down my arm and out of my hand.

The focus in on the dantien. As well as the Chi Kung and Nei Kung there are other meditations like uprooting and sinking jing or Tai Chi connective meditations. It is powerful stuff. I do not do it anymore though because it does not mix with what I do. It is great for Martial arts as it covers Golden Bell etc.... In fact Grandmaster Gene Chicoine and a student of his met him. The student tried his Iron Palm on Master Clyman and just hurt is hand. Grandmaster Ch'ang Tung Sheng punched him in the face while he just laughed (to test his gold bell)

I could go on for ages but I can't really right now. I will answer any questions from PM's. Lastly though I will say that for those that think him charging $3000 for his Nei Kung is outrageous.... think about it.... this is 20 years or knowledge that you can get only two ways. Train 20 years or pay up. I will warn that there is a reason that this knowledge is given over time and not to jump into advanced stuff without a foundation! take time with it.

Before anyone criticizes I would say have the balls to do it to his face. Then come here you will have the right to comment. It's like a crazy man holding a bag of gold coins. You may think he is crazy and be put off by his madness but he still has the bag of gold coins. (I am not saying Gary is crazy BTW! he is a nice guy).

Q: Does anyone know if you can practice the Clyman dvd's and still practice Kunlun? Not back to back of course.

A: Errr that depends but the short answer is no. The reason for this is mostly because you cannot do MCO and Kunlun. At least, in the beginning you can't. Gary's system is huge, there is a lot in there. There are elements that you can put with Kunlun but it depends how long you have been doing Kunlun. In both of these methods there is an internal alchemy that is taking place. A very different one!

In the Chi Kung of Gary's system you collect and condense energy to create the alchemical agent that is then circulated via the micro and macro orbits. When you get to the Nei Kung then that shit is a whole other level! Certain vibratory meditations are used to accelerate the vibration of the Jing you have created. This kind of stuff would not mix with Kunlun and I would not put them together.

This does not mean you cold not do them both though. You have to wait for one alchemy to finish before you attempt another, and your goal is the deciding factor in what type of method you choose. You find this even within certain schools such as Grand Master Doo Wai's. You cannot train for healing and ging and the same time as your cultivating different energy. Opposites almost....

I was perusing the John Chang thread recently, and it made me wonder: how many people out there have actually met some one who could provide a real, demonstrable manifestation of chi or chi-like phenomenon? I think that Mr. Denty is right: once you taste the real thing, there's no doubt whatsoever. Personally, I've met two. The most powerful was Master Waysun Liao.

When I met Master Liao, I wanted to "test" him. We've all seen those martial arts demonstrations where the so-called master demonstartes mystical techniques on people of their own choosing. I had this in mind and wanted to test ML. Much to my surprise, he ASKED me to test him. At one point, I had my body wedged between the floor and his arm trying to keep him from lowering it, all to no avail. But the real kicker is when he was demonstrating how chi should feel when one is practicing correctly. Make no mistake, this stuff is as far from imagination as the law of gravity.

What we did was we all gathered in a circle. Master Liao had us put our hands out in the tai chi ball stance, which is standing shoulder width apart, with our palms facing one another, perpendicular to the floor. Sort of like holding a beach ball in front of you. He placed his hands around my hands, without touching. Then he said, let me know when you feel something.

Mind you, I was a chi skeptic at this time. I could feel vague light buzzings, but nothing substantial.

What I did was try to keep an open, empty mind and a relaxed body. I was curious, but quite sceptical. What happened was it felt like suddenly I was hooked up to a power generator. When I was younger, I once grabbed a refrigerator that wasn't fully grounded, and was mildly electocuted. It was similar, but it felt good. It started out vague, then I felt a lot of pressure as though I was submerged under water. I said nothing, and the feelings got very strong. Then the pressure gave way and it felt like liquid electicity was flowing throughout my body, and it felt as real and vivid as an oak table. I also felt my lower dan tien and upper dan tien swelling and opening, and it was ecstatic. It also felt like there was a fine electrical wire connecting the two dan tiens. I felt giddy and high, and couldn't stop smiling. It also felt there was an actual ball between my hands.

The main thought I had was "Oh my God I can't beleive this is real!"

Master Liao said that the object was to cultivate oneself so that one could feel that way without a master "charging you up".

To some extent, we all feel chi: when we are well rested and feel alive. But this was magnified many times over. I would say chi is energy, much like electrical energy. I've been told that some people can hear it, some people can see it, but most feel it. When talking about chi, I mean feeling electrical energy with no technological source that feels as vivid as physical objects.

I agree with what you say, T. I firmly believe that most of the stuff on chi out there is imagined, wrong, or mistaken. Which is why I wanted to start a thread, to try to separate out the phonies. Now I'm not saying that Master Liao is the ONLY possible source of authentic chi exercises, just one. I think Wong Kiew Kit may be another, but I don't have direct experience and so I can't say. I hear Yan Xin does some amazing things, but once again, I don't have direct experience of it.

Gary Clymans stuff is the real deal. I am qualified to make that statement because I purchased his Tidal Wave chi Kung and Mind Light Nei Kung.

It changed my life for the better. I do it everyday. It made me more graceful, think faster, I feel less tired, I feel more effective at work and at home. I feel more powerful. It really helped me to gather chi at Tan Tien and circulate it.

I am a young taoist pursuing the way. I have decided to join this forum because of a promise I made to Gary Clyman in exchange for showing me his techniques. He said that if his stuff was for real, then I should post on the Tao bums to tell all those "assholes" it was for real.

Now, I am not Clyman. I was not hypnotized by Clyman. I do not care if anyone takes classes or receives information from Clyman. I am not one of Clyman's students. All that said, the guy is legitimate. You may call him an asshole. I probably would. But, he has powerful internal power. He threw me against a wall with one wave of long power, on the floor, and gave me several punches each with a different feeling in the chest/stomach. These 5 strikes corresponded with the five elements (wood, Earth, water, fire, and metal). He named them before he hit me. I know that what he showed me was real because I had experienced other Tai Chi artists do similar demonstrations of power to me. Clyman's was just more of the internal power.

Regardless of what you think about the man, please remember that the Tao gives rise to both pleasant and unpleasant personalities. I believe Gary Clyman is a good person. His approach and way of speaking may offend some sensibilities, but the guy knows what he is talking about. He is open to demonstrations, he has nothing to lose.

That is my peace. I am happy to be apart of the Tao Bum community.

Peace,

Shawn

Testimonials for Gary Clyman's amazing healing abilities, which he developed with his Mind Light Nei Kung training:

Some of the many impressive testimonials for Gary Clyman on youtube ( for Emotional Liposuction, Chiropractic treatment, Nei Kung, Chi Kung), which clearly prove his awesome healing powers in many areas (spiritual, emotional & physical):

Edited by Dorian Black, 12 June 2013 - 02:59 AM.

"The people who are obsessed with ego, powers and darkness can be easily spotted:

Because they talk of those in every second post and project their obsessions,

Some videos of Taichi Masters demonstrating Fa-Jing (or Fajin, transfer of power with physical contact to the opponent) AND Fa-Shen or "distance power", transfer of power through space without touching the opponent!!! According to Mo Pai theory, this should only be able after doing seated meditation to gather Yin/Earth-Chi AND achieving "Yin-Yang-Gong"! Well, think again:

"The people who are obsessed with ego, powers and darkness can be easily spotted:

Because they talk of those in every second post and project their obsessions,

Step 1 in Temple Style Nei Kung: "Condensing Breathing"!
What does this exercise actually do? I'll tell you...
You suck with your Mind the Chi, that already flows through your 12 ordinary Meridians into "the five bows of Taichi". What are the 5 bows?
They are thought center lines:
1) in your torso (from your crown point of the head through the head through your spine through your pelvis to your perineum)
2 + 3) the center lines in your arms through the bones
4 + 5) the center lines in your legs through your bones
What does happen then?
Well, you have Yang-Meridians on the back of your head and torso, Yang-Chi flows in them from your perineum up to the crown point of your head. You have Yin-Meridians on the front of your head and torso and Yin-Chi flows in them down from the top of your head to your perineum. You have Yin-Meridians on the inside (the soft side!) of your arm, Yin-Chi flows in them from your finger tips to your torso. You have Yang-Meridians on the outer (the harder side!) of your arm, Yang-Chi flows in them from your your torso to your finger tips. You have Yang-Meridians on the outer side of your legs, Yang-Chi flows in them from your torso to your feet. You have Yin-Meridians on the inner sides of your legs, Yin-Chi flows from your feet to your torso. (Is it all one big closed inner circuit and does Yin-Chi change to Yang-Chi and back because of the flow direction and because of the meridians the Chi flows in? YES!!)
You may notice that every one of the five bows has one flow of Yang-Chi in one direction (AWAY FROM your center/tantien) and one flow of Yin-Chi in the OPPOSITE direction (BACK TO your center/tantien) on two opposing outsides.
Big question, what happens if you suck the flows of Yang-Chi and Yin-Chi at the same time from the surfaces deep INTO the five bows (into the bones)? Well, they will COLLIDE/FUSE of course! Fusion of flows of Yin- and Yang Chi, (true) Yin-Yang-Gong, powered, infused and controlled by Mind-Energy (Yi)! Yuan-Chi.
From my own experience, I can tell you that it feels like a Standing Wave!

mind energy

+yin chi (blue wave)

+yang chi (red wave)

=yuan chi / jing (black wave)

Then, you do "Basic Path Training" and "Left-Right-Vibration"-exercises to further increase the Amplitude (=Mass/Strength) and the Frequenzy (=Density/Pureness) of this Standing Wave by infusing more and more Mind-Energy.
Then, you store the produced Yuan-Chi in your Tantien.
That's what's really going on, folks!
So, the "heat" you use to "cook" your "water" (your own Yin- and Yang-Chi) into "steam" (your Jing or Yuan Chi) is your Mind-Energy ("Yi")! It's no wonder that Jing is considered to be in the bones and the Tantien. By further infusing Mind-Energy, your Jing becomes Shen and after that TE (an individual field of actual TAO-Level-Energy). All these are states of Yuan-Chi, according to it's Frequenzy and Amplitude. With reaching the TE-level, you achieve full enlightenment, the highest spiritual level possible, and become one with TAO!

Edited by Dorian Black, 12 June 2013 - 02:31 AM.

"The people who are obsessed with ego, powers and darkness can be easily spotted:

Because they talk of those in every second post and project their obsessions,

Some videos of Taichi Masters demonstrating Fa-Jing (or Fajin, transfer of power with physical contact to the opponent) AND Fa-Shen or "distance power", transfer of power through space without touching the opponent!!! According to Mo Pai theory, this should only be able after doing seated meditation to gather Yin/Earth-Chi AND achieving "Yin-Yang-Gong"! Well, think again:

it is true that fa-jing and fa-shen can only be reached by yin yang gong! i see your familiar with gary clyman, i am as well. he does higher lvl chi kung, one particular training being microcosmic orbit training . in the micro cosmic orbit training you send the chi from the dantien to the tip of th tail bone and back to the dantien. this mxes yin and yang. thats why you will get the tingling sensation in your groin. your mixing yin and yang. so inadvertantly you have developed yin yang kung. just on a really low level. i think this was develooped as a fail safe to practices like mo pai. thats why gary has the power he has, hes been mixing yin and yang for along time and didnt even know it.

"I DO NOT KNEEL BEFORE MAN NOR GOD, BUT STAND AS AN IMMORTAL TITAN AMONGST THE COSMOS"

...btw, another point of view would be that your Yang-Chi is the fire and that your Yin-Chi is the water and that the Mind only controlls that process.On the other hand, Waysun Liao states CLEARLY in his book "Tao-The Way of God" that the high-frequenzy energy of your Mind is the "Heat" to "cook" and to raise your energy until it can "connect to God"!The old classic texts of Taoist Alchemy state that Yuan Chi (or "taichi") is the fusion of Spirit and Vitality, Jing-Shen.The meditation on your Tantien doesn't pull chi from heaven into your Tantien (what a ridicolous thought!), no, you actually "plunge" spirit (=awareness=mind) into your Tantien until it gets enveloped by and fused with vitality to Yuan Chi. The vibration that can be felt is an indicator for that.Again, how can someone actually believe that concentrating deep into your body will somehow pull energy from heaven and earth into your body??? B.S.!!!

Yeah, I recommend the Old-School/Martial-Arts way of Temple Style Taichi as taught in the 70's by Grandmaster Waysun Liao in Chicago! Waysun Liao wrote a great book about it's theory in the 70's, the "Taichi Classics". It's the most-sold book about Taichi in the world btw. The second book I would recommend to you is "Tao - The way of God", also written by Waysun Liao.These books will explain to you the theory behind true internal alchemy.But Waysun Liao doesn't teach this Nei Kung exercises anymore...at least not openly and not with his DVD's.The only remaining source for sale of the Nei Kung system in Temple Style Taichi is Gary J. Clyman's Mind Light Nei Kung Set. You can buy it on his website Chikung.com for $3.450. It contains the following items:-Tidal Wave Chi Kung DVD set (2 DVD's, around 3 hours. Here you learn essential Nei Kung exercises from the temple style taichi system and then you get the "Daily practice routine" where you can do this exercises, condensed in 28 minutes. Every Chi Kung system is always a small piece of a bigger Nei Kung system...at least it's the case with temple style. They are true Nei Kung exercises but not the whole system.)-Gold Sash DVD (1 DVD with a Tai Chi workout)-Green Sash DVD (1 DVD, around 1hour, with the exercises you will use to project jing, once you have it...Liao talks shortly about these in the taichi classics book in the chapter "How to transfer (project) internal power")-Blue Sash DVD (1 DVD, around 1,5 hours, where you learn the rest of the internal Nei Kung exercises)- and finally: 2 DVD's with the 4 one hour Nei Kung routines A,B,C,D. You then rotate these routines and they will lead you to Jing and beyond...they include all the internal Nei Kung exercises of the temple style taichi system.-The Nei Kung Bible: All the internal exercises explained in form of photoshopped photos with Gary. It helps very much in understanding what he does on his Nei Kung DVD'S but I would clearly NOT suggest you to buy the Nei Kung Bible ONLY! I couldn't understand what and how to do the stuff by reading the bible. It's also much better to have Gary standing right in front of you on the screen, going with you through the exercises and motivating you to give your best, believe me that! -the Chi Kung Bible: an older book of Gary about the PPT / Chi Kung training.Also, back in the 70's under Liao, you first had to go through the entire Taichi moving meditation system and be perfect in it, then you had the chance to learn the precious Nei Kung stuff! Only Gary and a few other people made it this far. Gary fell from grace with Liao because he taught the precious Nei Kung stuff to people FIRST without grinding them through the Taichi stuff before!

All right, now some quotes of interest I gathered so far:

WOW! Thank you immensely for explaining the whole process. I got my hands on Tai Chi Classic from Master Liao. Really great material. Everything is much more clearer now.

Now I should start saving and in 10 years buy Clymans DVDs :|

Edited by Shagrath, 09 November 2012 - 05:06 AM.

"There is no emotion, there is peace.
There is no ignorance, there is knowledge.
There is no passion, there is serenity.
There is no chaos, there is harmony.
There is no death, there is the Force."

Well he should from our perspective but from his I'm sure he doesn't care. If you want that knowledge you will pay 3.500 dollars and he'll have a thicker wallet. If you are not ready to pay that amount F**K OFF.

It's cruel but that's life.

PS: in 10-15 years when I gather the money I will tell you are the dvd-s worth the price

"There is no emotion, there is peace.
There is no ignorance, there is knowledge.
There is no passion, there is serenity.
There is no chaos, there is harmony.
There is no death, there is the Force."

WOW! Thank you immensely for explaining the whole process. I got my hands on Tai Chi Classic from Master Liao. Really great material. Everything is much more clearer now.

Now I should start saving and in 10 years buy Clymans DVDs :|

My pleasure! ...and good choice! I had to save money for 1,5 or 2 years to buy his stuff, but I did strongly restrict my expenses. Lol, I even made a partial payment (around 400 or 450 Euros) first out of fear that his price would go up and so he did ensure the price it had back then for me. His price didn't go up btw. I had no securities whatsoever for the payment, but he kept to his word and didn't "forget" the money he already had from me! I must say it was a conscious test of character from me for him and I was very happy with his attitude. You can clearly trust Gary with financiel issues, he's a honest guy.

Thousands of dollars for 2c DVD's, that is a bargain! He is really showing his compassion for the suffering of mankind by making his material so easily available.

Dude, are you kidding??? Other people on thetaobums like rodgerj agree with me that Gary's prices are DAMN LOW-PRICED for the immense worth of the material! rodgerj once wrote me that Gary's system is worth more than ANY money and he's right imo! I even suggested to Gary to FURTHER raise his prices (after completing my purchase, haha!)! I mean: What do you pay for a new car? A house? If you are really serious with taoist alchemic training, getting the right training advice should be MUCH more worth to you than a damn house! With Gary's Nei Kung course, you ONCE pay several thousand dollars and have everything you'll ever need at once...and you are independant from any master.But when you go the "traditional" way, you are absolutely dependant to a master who just gives you one tiny peace after the other, maybe one exercise per year, or he even stops teaching you for whatever reason, if he thinks that you aren't training hard enough in his opinion or if you disagree with him in some things! I wouldn't want to take that risk!Also, Gary's routines are just keeping you up, they are incredibly motivational, you just have to follow his directions. For me, that's much better than training with books and I can train with my master at any day or night time I want to!

Edited by Dorian Black, 09 November 2012 - 07:23 AM.

"The people who are obsessed with ego, powers and darkness can be easily spotted:

Because they talk of those in every second post and project their obsessions,

BTW, there is ONE BIG ISSUE with Gary's Nei Kung system but I am sure that this issue exists in EVERY other Taoist Alchemic system: From my own experience, I can tell you that the REGROW of sperm cells (AFTER ejaculation) VERY STRONGLY feeds from the surplus of inner power (jing) that you cultivate with Nei Kung / Taoist Alchemy!
Your vibration will strongly be diminished (at least at my low power level of development) one day after an ejaculation. And I mean with this that you will feel this clearly and without any doubt. It can take weeks to recultivate what you lost. Also, your sex drive actually INCREASES with the increase of your Jing and that can make you CRAVE for sex! So make sure you are GREATLY motivated to progress far, or you will end up in a sad up-and-down/one-step-forward-one-step-backward-game! You should clearly know what you want before you invest the money to buy Clyman's system.
There are around 100 people on earth who bought it (Clyman said that in an interview I heard), but how many actually achieved the Jing (or further), I can't say! And the main reason for that is imo that most people "throw out" in one moment of weakness what they had build up before in long hard work!

Clyman states clearly in several articles: "If you keep jerking off, you'll NEVER get the Jing!"

Edited by Dorian Black, 09 November 2012 - 08:08 AM.

"The people who are obsessed with ego, powers and darkness can be easily spotted:

Because they talk of those in every second post and project their obsessions,

Does somebody know what made master Wang Xiangzhai, Robert Peng, newly famous John Chang, etc that strong in manifesting and controlling energy and energetic processes, zapping touch, etc? Is it just strong dan tiens or they have activated some parts of mind that other practitioners didn't or couldn't? I know a lot of people that are training some forms of qigong every day for 1-3h for 30 years and nothing, and Master Wang just did Zhan Zhuang and he went really in depth of controlling energy. Every individual with those kind of supreme energy control did different style/approach to training and because of that I cannot see any overlap in what they did except meditation and devotion to energy arts

Is there something special that person has to develop as ability or make strong some energy structure to start developing those kind of abilities or you just practice daily energy work and meditation and it will come if you have those kind of potentials inside you?

Thanks

The amplitude of power generated is partially a function of the level of stillness you can attain. Awareness fixed, just like in dorian's av.

From my experience, the "trick" here is to learn Zen Mind.If you do Zhang Zhuang with a Zen Mind, it works deep.

Otherwise, you will reach a "limit level" of standing (maybe more than 2 hours), but nothing more.

*nods*

Yes. Though I'm being slightly presumptuous. I don't know Robert Peng, and I know enough about Sifu Chang to know I don't know what he does so this is not about him.

However in the lines of Xing-yi (and some bagua) there are accounts of this kind of ability, and I am aware of aspects of that.

First let me say, 'qi' can be felt either via nerves or from fluids, this I have been taught from several sources and so it seems beyond simply 'one style's' way of thinking. When felt through nerves it tends to be electric, zappy, tingly, or like lightning. Fluids is different. From this it is often clear which systems appear to advocate training that has an emphasis for one or the other or a balanced approach. It is NOT that you have 'electric' qi or whatever, the sensations are just that, and are a feedback for how you feel the qi. With practice you can learn to use qi in ways that produce those sensations more than others. Make sense?

You want to balance and practice xiantian (pre-heaven) and houtian (postheaven) methods. The xiantian gong tends to be the deeper more internal stillness practices that take you into yourself and back towards emptiness. The houtian gong tends to be about balancing and developing what and who you are here and now, physically, energetically etc. They are intimately related. Like the phrase 'to go out, go in, to go in, go out'. You can only go so far one way, without a balanced opposite. Xiantian gong tends to emphasise building and developing dantian and zhongmai.

Martial artists tend to emphasise houtian, because they need to fight. But the development of intent that aids the xiantian gong is defintely improved through the practice of martial arts.

Yi Quan if taught well is great houtian, however it is extremely rare for anyone to be doing xiantian within it.

The equation for a "strong energy cultivation" is IN EVERY SYSTEM the same:

Mind + Life = Power

Yi + Chi = Jing (= Yuan Chi btw.!)

What does that mean? Well, Waysun Liao says that you taichi exercise is like an oven.Your chi is what you want to cook in your oven, "the high-frequenzy energy of your Mind is the Heat" (QUOTE!).YOU INCREASE THE AMPLITUDE (="MASS") AND THE FREQUENZY (="DENSITY") OF YOUR CHI BY INFUSING YOUR MIND ENERGY IN IT! This "JING" = "Internal POWER" is a fusion of your Mind-Energy and your Life-Energy and therefore controllable by your mind! This JING is also YUAN-CHI, PRE-BIRTH CHI or PRIMAL/PRIMORDIAL CHI! So it's in fact not a fusion but a RE-fusion! Big surprise, the fusion of "water" and "fire" into "steam", the big goal of Taoist Alchemy, that's it!!

...and, to all Mo-Pai Lovers: you REALLY think that by concentrating deep into your body into your dantian (and doing reverse-breathing) you will somehow (by the grace of god maybe?) pull heaven-chi (& earth-chi) into your body??? Re-read what I have written above and think sharply about that....!Maybe you should read some Taoist alchemy Classics translated by Eva Wong, eh!ALSO: WHY CAN TAICHI MASTERS DO FA-SHEN (transferring power through space without touching you) WITHOUT EVER HAVING MEDITATED WITH THEIR ASSES ON THE EARTH??? Because it's simply a question of FREQUENZY and AMPLITUDE to transfer power through space! No "Yin"-Chi needed, guys! When you came beyond Jing to Shen, then you can do it!

Let's quote Temple Style Taichi Master Gregory James:

Jing, Shen, TE are just "reference points", in fact you just increase more and more the amplitude and frequenzy of your Mind+Chi-Mix!

The SECOND big issue with Gary's system (and any other Taoist Alchemic System IMO) is that it's (as Liao and Gary state) like boiling water: It needs CONSTANT UNINTERRUPTED HEAT OVER A LONG PERIOD OF TIME until the water suddenly boils when reaching the boiling point! Or, as Gary said: "If you again and again take the water from the stove, IT WILL NEVER BOIL!"So, longer interruptions in the training (over weeks or maybe even days), and "the water" might lose all it's "heat" (or at least great amounts of it) again!Haha, brutal, isn't it? Well, this is the case UNTIL you actually reached the Jing (or the next levels Shen and finally TE), as confirmed by Gary! So these levels seem to be clear steps of profound change in your energy structure that will not reverse in case you have reached them once! Like levels of "awakening" or so.

Also: As like water unremarkably and quietly absorbs more and more heat over a long period of time and then SUDDENLY boils when reaching the boiling point, Gary confirmed to me that when he got his Jing, it was a sudden event and he "no more was the same as before", whatever that means. As with the process of boiling water, there are again and again "bubbles" before actually reaching the boiling point, strange experiences like hearing loud humming, feeling strong vibrations flowing around and then vanishing again.

Edited by Dorian Black, 09 November 2012 - 09:10 AM.

"The people who are obsessed with ego, powers and darkness can be easily spotted:

Because they talk of those in every second post and project their obsessions,