LasersHurt:Waxing_Chewbacca: kukukupo: D_Evans45: kukukupo: As it stands at this minute; I'm a possible Obama voter (I don't see much difference between Obama/Romney) but if he comes out pro-federal-gay, I would probably vote for Romney to keep the status quo.

You're voting over someone who is taking over our future for the next 4-8 years. How could something as trivial as gayness possibly affect your thinking so much? Just what is it about accepting gays that upsets you so much?

It has more to do with the idea of individual state's rights in my personal opinion. If a populous doesn't want to recognize a gay marriage - they should be allowed to govern these social issues by themselves. If you want gay marriage - great! Vote for it and allow it in your state (or move somewhere that allows it).

I believe the states should be able to regulate it much in the same way they can determine legal age of consent, blood test requirements, Residency requirements, etc for marriage licenses.

I hate this argument. How about we say "blacks" and "voting" instead of "gay" and "marriage". Should the states still get to decide?

tgregory:Ricardo Klement: tgregory: Welcome to the bandwagon, Obama supporters. Ron Paul has been supporting this for decades. He's not a trendy cool black guy, though, so I understand.

Actually, he also supports a state's right to ban it, like in North Carolina's case. Ron's only absolute on the rights the FEDS can't do anything about. At the state level, he has said a state can ban sodomy. He says it's stupid, but that they have that right.

qorkfiend: NateGrey: tgregory: Welcome to the bandwagon, Obama supporters. Ron Paul has been supporting this for decades. He's not a trendy cool black guy, though, so I understand.

Wait weren't you a Bush supporter?

No, this is the part of the thread where the Republicans pretend that they were actually gay marriage supporters all along.

Ricardo Klement:tgregory: Theaetetus: Ricardo Klement: tgregory: Welcome to the bandwagon, Obama supporters. Ron Paul has been supporting this for decades. He's not a trendy cool black guy, though, so I understand.

Actually, he also supports a state's right to ban it, like in North Carolina's case. Ron's only absolute on the rights the FEDS can't do anything about. At the state level, he has said a state can ban sodomy. He says it's stupid, but that they have that right.

... except that he's also in favor of a constitutional amendment abolishing womens' rights to bodily autonomy and medical privacy.

Would love to see an article about this seeing how Ron Paul has introduced patient privacy acts multiple times. I think you've been listening to the wrong people instead of searching for yourself.

Link

I think Theaetetus is referring to abortion. Besides, he points out there's no right to privacy in the Constitution.

I would love to discuss the right to privacy with someone who believed it didn't exist. Most people I've talked with eventually back away from it or obfuscate, saying that the right to privacy is implied with things they like, but for things they don't like it doesn't exist.

Dusk-You-n-Me:what_now: Well...no. The loans aren't increasing. The loan FORGIVENESS program has increased, and the interest rates are decreasing, but technically, the same amount of loans are available.

Ah thank you. More money in pockets of students is happening, but I was wrong in my interpretation.

Are we sure this is a good thing? That money isn't supposed to be in the students' pockets; they seem to be prone to spending it on non-educational things.

mrshowrules:Anyone think the Biden "gaffe" was really planned to test the waters and set the stage first?

As soon as it happened, political commentators were pointing out that Biden's statement was so strong and so unequivocal that it probably was a trial balloon, not a gaffe. When I saw Biden's interview, it never even occurred to me that his statement was a gaffe.

Cup_O_Jo:So basically the string pullers put Biden in front of a camera trying to save Obama's career. Biden says he endorses gay marriage. Obamas true colors show through as he says nothing. The string pullers get really pissed because they know that "the war on women" angle is failing and that "health care for all" is failing--and their recent "BIN LADEN" blah blah is not working,the Trayvon Martin thing completely failed---so one last pony--Gay Marriage. He must endorse it. So he does. Endorsing it means jack shiat. Marriage is still state by state. It's not a federal law. It does not mean he is making it legal in every state to have gay marriage. It's just talk. It's a weak last defense of a horrible President who is trying to get a second term. I dislike Romeny--but the guy is also Gay Marriage. And honestly his state did it. So ya know. When Romeny is looking more liberal that the President. Just sayin.

Corvus: Ok for everyone saying "This is a great move" in this thread how many of were not going to vote for him and now you are? Or even give to his campaign?

I'm a bit skeptical about all the conclusions people are jumping to, but, if Obama actually endorses gay marriage tonight, I will donate $100 to his campaign. It will be the first political donation I have ever made, and will likely be the last.

So, was that enough?

Yup, despite Corvus's assholery following that post, Obama will get my $100. He's gonna need it to fight the tidal wave of fundie/Mormon money.

I voted against McCain/Palin in 2008. In 2012, I'm voting for Obama/Biden.

So me giving you the information that you asked about and asking if you did what you say is being an "asshole"?

How exactly? And can you please not go to insults? I am not insulting you. You are the one doing the name calling.

I don't get how giving you the information you wanted and asking you if are going to do what yo promised is being an "asshole".

BojanglesPaladin:Now it appears that the timing of the president's announcement may have been decided by forces beyond Oval Office control...

The hell it does.

They used Bidden as a Polish Mine Detector. If it had blown up more than they expected, they could just fall back on "That wacky Bidden - he sure says some nutty things."

There is not a single part of this that is not a political calculation. The only 'evolution' of Obama's views on gay marriage is an evolving strategic assesment of the political strategy of its usefulness as a wedge issue in the re-election.

One hundred percent right there. no way Biden is waging the dog on this.

themeaningoflifeisnot:mrshowrules: Anyone think the Biden "gaffe" was really planned to test the waters and set the stage first?

As soon as it happened, political commentators were pointing out that Biden's statement was so strong and so unequivocal that it probably was a trial balloon, not a gaffe. When I saw Biden's interview, it never even occurred to me that his statement was a gaffe.

I never thought it was a gaffe either. I guess my real question was if it was party of an overall campaign strategy?

qorkfiend:Are we sure this is a good thing? That money isn't supposed to be in the students' pockets; they seem to be prone to spending it on non-educational things.

Look, this stuff is VERY well regulated. A student has a budget- it includes tuition, fees, books, food, rent, personal expenses and transportation. It is determined by the cost of living increases in the area the school is in, and it takes a team of people at each school to set these budgets.

A student needs to provide a tremendous amount of documentation to increase the budget.

Now, lets say a student has someone else paying his rent, but takes the loan out anyway and spends it on shoes and candy. What's your solution? The university pays the landlord or we just don't let students borrow money to live on because someone of them will spend it in a manner in which you do not approve?

Why Would I Read the Article:Wow, he's finally decided to embrace equality for everyone, four years after he shied away from saying anything about Prop 8 during the 2008 election because it wasn't politically opportunistic. He's also finally making the rounds on colleges to get the young vote after he spent 4 years doing absolutely nothing to either help kids get to college, or afford it.

This is all just grandstanding for the upcoming election. Forgive me for not being impressed.

Dusk-You-n-Me:what_now: Well...no. The loans aren't increasing. The loan FORGIVENESS program has increased, and the interest rates are decreasing, but technically, the same amount of loans are available.

Ah thank you. More money in pockets of students is happening, but I was wrong in my interpretation.

NP.

you know I'm going to stick my nose in this discussion, whenever it happens.

Love and justice will overcome hate and discrimination. Always. Whatever his motivations, I'm proud of my President today, and NOTHING any cynic or troll can conjure up will sway that. God bless America.

mrshowrules:themeaningoflifeisnot: mrshowrules: Anyone think the Biden "gaffe" was really planned to test the waters and set the stage first?

As soon as it happened, political commentators were pointing out that Biden's statement was so strong and so unequivocal that it probably was a trial balloon, not a gaffe. When I saw Biden's interview, it never even occurred to me that his statement was a gaffe.

I never thought it was a gaffe either. I guess my real question was if it was party of an overall campaign strategy?

Firmly believe it was a test balloon. VP Biden is a smart guy who is fully cognizant of the fact that he sometimes says what he means, as opposed to what the script was supposed to be. The politically aware public is also aware of this tendency.

Is there any better person in the Obama Administration to float a test balloon on a controversial issue?

If anyone still doesn't think Obama is engaging in some excellent trolling here (even though I think he really does believe what he's saying), check out some of the reactions coming from the right that make them sound like total assholes.

Barack Obama just announced he supports same-sex marriage. Nancy Pelosi immediately jumped on the announcement and emailed Democrat activists nationwide promising to continue their fight. This is going to be a defining issue this election. Obama, Pelosi and the Democrats have been a complete failure on economic issues so now they are going to focus on issues that will rile up their base. Well, Mr. President it's going to rile up our folks also. Men and women who support traditional marriage. - Mike Huckabee

While President Obama has played politics on this issue, the Republican Party and our presumptive nominee Mitt Romney have been clear. We support maintaining marriage between one man and one woman and would oppose any attempts to change that - RNC Chairman Reince Priebus.

What @barackobama did today regarding same-sex marriage is something I will never do. I'm a consistent conservative. - John Brunner

I believe marriage is a relationship between a man and a woman - Mitt Romney

mrshowrules:Dr Dreidel: The only thing Obama needs to say is: "My views on the topic of gay marriage are unimportant. The fact is that a government which would deny citizens their right to live and love as they choose - free from the pressures and prejudices of others - is not a freedom-loving government."

I'd like for him to add: "If you do not like gay marriage, don't attend, host or have one. If you believe that religion cannot abode gay marriage, do not attend services at such a house of worship. If you cannot abide a gay couple living on your street, it is YOU who must search for a home more welcoming to your prejudices. America is a freedom-loving nation - we are free to love whom we choose."

FTW. Very well said.

For the record, I'm for gay marriage, but that second to last sentence is bullshiat. "You're free not to like it, and you're free to move somewhere where people don't like it either, but we're not going to allow a like minded group of people to actually impose a law of any sort on what can or cannot go on in their group."

Glad we're concentrating on an issue that hits 5% (or less, depending on the study) of the US population, and not why it costs 60 dollars to fill my two door Honda. Hint : Closing off access to oil and shutting down pipeline construction doesn't help.

mrshowrules:themeaningoflifeisnot: mrshowrules: Anyone think the Biden "gaffe" was really planned to test the waters and set the stage first?

As soon as it happened, political commentators were pointing out that Biden's statement was so strong and so unequivocal that it probably was a trial balloon, not a gaffe. When I saw Biden's interview, it never even occurred to me that his statement was a gaffe.

I never thought it was a gaffe either. I guess my real question was if it was party of an overall campaign strategy?

I think it is highly likely. Biden didn't just bunt on that one, he swung for the fences. That's not accidental.

Pixiest:He's just firing up the base. He's not going to repeal the DOMA. Remember, he's for Gay VOTES and not Gay Rights.

Yeah it's not like he repealed DADT or anything. They should totally just vote for the Republican Mormon instead. He'll DEFINITELY fight to protect the rights of gays. Just look at how he treats his own staffers who are gay...

WalkingCarpet:If anyone still doesn't think Obama is engaging in some excellent trolling here (even though I think he really does believe what he's saying), check out some of the reactions coming from the right that make them sound like total assholes.

Barack Obama just announced he supports same-sex marriage. Nancy Pelosi immediately jumped on the announcement and emailed Democrat activists nationwide promising to continue their fight. This is going to be a defining issue this election. Obama, Pelosi and the Democrats have been a complete failure on economic issues so now they are going to focus on issues that will rile up their base. Well, Mr. President it's going to rile up our folks also. Men and women who support traditional marriage. - Mike Huckabee

While President Obama has played politics on this issue, the Republican Party and our presumptive nominee Mitt Romney have been clear. We support maintaining marriage between one man and one woman and would oppose any attempts to change that - RNC Chairman Reince Priebus.

What @barackobama did today regarding same-sex marriage is something I will never do. I'm a consistent conservative. - John Brunner

I believe marriage is a relationship between a man and a woman - Mitt Romney

And they're just getting started.

They're phrasing this as if the Democrats were the ones that picked this fight.

mrshowrules:themeaningoflifeisnot: mrshowrules: Anyone think the Biden "gaffe" was really planned to test the waters and set the stage first?

As soon as it happened, political commentators were pointing out that Biden's statement was so strong and so unequivocal that it probably was a trial balloon, not a gaffe. When I saw Biden's interview, it never even occurred to me that his statement was a gaffe.

I never thought it was a gaffe either. I guess my real question was if it was party of an overall campaign strategy?

The media is so predictably lazy when it comes to Biden.

They're so used to writing their cliched "another Biden gaffe lol" stories, it's all they know how to write about him.

Nowadays, whenever Biden speaks frankly about a topic or gives his honest, considered opinion in response to a question, the media jumps all over the "gaffe," even when it's nothing of the sort.