How do we move from being an irrelevance to a major political force?

I did not join UKIP because someone put a leaflet through my door. Indeed, no party of any colour has ever pushed a leaflet through my door.

I joined because people on a financial markets blog based in the USA, started telling me about an extraordinary man speaking in Strasbourg. Around 2010, they started to send me video links. That man was, of course, Nigel.

So I joined UKIP sometime in 2014 having never voted in my entire life. I was a member for a year but no one from the local branch ever contacted me, even though the chair lived just three miles away. I went to the polling station to vote for the very first time in my life in 2015 and early that morning, proudly ticked UKIP in the boxes, before jumping on a plane to organise earthquake relief in Nepal.

Still no one contacted me and I had no idea that local branches even existed. I forgot about UKIP but carried on watching Nigel and rushed down to vote ‘out’ in the referendum. Voting out was so important to me, that I remember it like a photograph; that ballot paper, the light, the place, the time of day.

I stayed up all that night and watched with amazement and great joy as those first results came in from Sunderland and Newcastle and I knew we had won.

The day after Brexit, the dreadful, spoilt whining of the remainers, made me decide that I could no longer sit around, while my country disintegrated. I contacted Stuart Agnew by email, and he personally came to my house to persuade me to rejoin UKIP, rather than join the Conservative party. I owe Stuart a lot and Stuart is one of the truly great people in the party. He has worked tirelessly on the ground in Norfolk and the East of England, giving money and time and doing such extraordinary things as spotting people with money or talent, who can help the party.

Russell Hicks, who wrote a much needed UKIP weekly newsletter last week, said, ‘Elections are won years in advance.’ and he is right. I voted UKIP in 2015 from seeing Nigel on a film in 2010, sent to me by somebody in America.

We did not close down, despite dreadful advice given over the Jane Collins affair, nor the precarious financial position that some senior officials put us in, nor the appalling tenure of Henry Bolton. Gerard came along and saved the party. I, and many others are eternally grateful to him, for stepping up and doing this.

That is just the beginning. We are now just above rock bottom. The rock bottom was when we were beaten by the women’s equality party in the Lewisham East By Election, despite having had a large social media campaign that I organised and funded and which reached 56,000 people and had 96,000 views.

That rock bottom was just before the joining of all the internet guys two weeks ago. You can read about them here.

Within a week, 1000 new members had joined, with an entirely new demographic from the existing membership. Instead of pushing on seventy, the new members are, on average, an entire generation younger.

Now although we got almost no votes in Lewisham East, we did get something out of all that social media expense and internet activity. A chair from West London spent all night editing a video about the appalling intimidation at the Lewisham East Hustings and produced a brilliant 6 minute film. Paid social media then pushed out this video with paid advertising reached over 15,000 people who viewed that video. We know the exact numbers as they had to click to view.

You can see an article that I wrote about these awful events here. (The video is embedded in the article and is worth a watch if you have not already seen it. Rebel media has a following of over 150,000 people in the UK and a number of million worldwide. It is based in Canada.

Paul Joseph Watson with 1.2m followers on facebook, was one of the people who saw that video and he and a few others, also recognised the faces of some of the people, swearing and obstructing that hustings. That same group of people had just shut down an event they were attending, the exact same people in a completely different location.

I am told that they said, ‘What would really upset these so called ‘social justice warriors’?’ Let’s join UKIP!

Gerard has to be strong and decisive. He must capitalise on this chance. There is everything to play for and nothing to lose.

Einstein said, paraphrased, doing the same old thing and expecting a different result is madness.

We are still doing the same old thing. We are not appointing people who are 35 like Salvini but people who are 70. We still think having little speeches to 50 people in village halls, is going to change the world. It will not. We also think that paying someone will solve the problem. It will not. There are already able people in the party who could be transformational, if used properly.

Just a couple of examples of our failings:

In the last 2 weeks , we have had the major events taking place but as of yesterday, our national website is not even updated. Nothing about the march, nothing about the anniversary, nothing about Paul Joseph Watson and Milo joining.

As a political party , we only sell one product, communications. The pitiful state of the website and the links below, really say it all:

We need a fully coordinated policy, led, not by a paid, outside hand, but by some who understand campaigning, newspapers, articles, leaflets and leaflet design, social media and videos. That person must use both old and new media and must tap all that expertise that exists already within UKIP. That person needs to be able to work full time for no money. That person needs to be dynamic and a successful entrepreneur. That person exists within UKIP and is Russell Hicks.

I agree that UKIP needs to find a way forward. The main problem was once the referendum was won, many Ukippers thought the job was done. This idea was pushed by the BBC who could see it could finish the party. Most of us know the rest. So here we are more needed than ever but unable to get our point across. Certainly the BBC would not want to see a phoenix rising from the ashes.
When I first joined Ukip I could not find out where my local branch was. But if you look at, say, the Tories they have a strong branch system.
You will always get help during an election campaign, but regular helpers are harder to find. However, building the branches will help find the people who are willing to give free time to what they believe in. Russell Hicks did wonders but he cannot do it all.

UKIP is awash with really keen, committed people who have a phenomenal sense of loyalty to Britain. UKIP people are desperate to help, ready to do whatever is needed. They will also make sacrifices; look at the response to the AGM to kick out horrendous Henry – thousands of people travelled from all over Britain to make their voices heard…and they got the right result. What’s missing in UKIP is a leadership group with the ability to harness the potential right under our noses.

UKIP might be in a mess, but what came of the parties that were set up as a result of the Henry Bolton debacle. How many members for instance does For Britain have. I have seen their website and seems pretty good for the time they have been going. With great difficulty I found the website for OneNation, the party set up by Bolton himself, and to be honest that was pretty awful with only very basic information Then there is the offshoot from Bolton’s party which called itself The Foundation Party apparently set up and led by some ex Kent UKIP members. Their website doesn’t seem to exist at all and seems to have died a death before they got started. Don’t any of these people know that it takes years of hard graft to establish a political party from nothing. All of these parties seem to believe in the same things as UKIP does, and want out of the European Union. However, by the time they get off the ground, assuming they ever do, the Brexit issue will have been already decided upon one way or the other. Time for those people to see sense and return to the UKIP fold once again, and pool our resources to fight Theresa May and the other ‘Remainers’ in her clan.

Great piece Catherine and thank you for the big-up at the end! This toe curling AMATEURISHNESS in UKIP really has to stop. The utter UTTER incompetence of whoever is ruining/running the website is ridiculous. I do believe this will lead directly to the people trying to wreck UKIP…that’s the only explanation, no one can be so THICK as to leave the website untouched for 12 days and ‘accidentally’ forget to mention the 2 year anniversary of the referendum and the HUGE rally in London on 23rd June. UKIP people are a lovely bunch but a bit gullible and too nice sometimes. Folks, wake up, you are being SHAFTED by whoever is in charge of the website…it’s staggering incompetence or sabotage, either way they should be kicked out or handed back to the Tory party/EU/LibDems or wherever they came from. How all those people on the NEC can’t see what’s going on, nor be bothered to find out is shocking.

A few years ago I programmed my first (of two) websites http://www.trooncruisingclub.org as an ordinary member. I knew absolutely nothing about the subject, but myself and another member, a graphic designer, produced from scratch a reasonable site within a couple of months. It was hard work starting from the likes of WordPress for Dummies etc. but with enthusiasm perfectly feasible to do. There is no excuse at all for not having a decent and updated website.

Quite agree Jim. I, too, have devised a couple of websites, including debbielemay.co.uk. Yes, it takes a bit of common sense but any reasonably intelligent person could make a fairly good job of it and there is invariably someone on the other end of an e-mail to turn to for help if necessary.

I certainly learned a thing or two Chris, but the main thing I learned was that nothing was happening very fast…!

Russell Hicks
on July 7, 2018 at 7:26 am

A number of us have been trying to get UKIP to radically improve the website for years and I designed a pilot site years ago, pinching the idea from the BBC. Of course UKIP’s numpties and saboteurs screwed any hope of a new site and made sure what we had was ugly, mostly turgid text and accordingly, visits dropped and dropped. Now, I wouldn’t do it like this today and this was just a pilot, Rob McWhirter keeps trying to pick holes in it for microscopic irrelevancies but misses the point as always, look at this from a first time visitors point of view, INSTANT eye catching photos, colour, humour, serious bits, all on the front page, in the first 10, 20, 30 seconds the visitor gets a MUCH better idea of what UKIP are about: ukipsurrey.co.uk

It is instantly improved Russell – the T Blair bit got my attention first + I like the green aspects of UKIP being spelt out. You should name, shame and campaign against the obstructionists. They are dangerous. thanks

I am absolutely convinced that the atrocious UKIP website is due to sabotage. Someone on this website got quite shirty with me a few months back when I suggested this, but frankly it’s as plain as the nose on your face. I don’t move in the higher echelons of UKIP so I don’t know who. But I think another commenter, Freddy Vachta, indicated that there was a saboteur so it’s not just me saying it. I got very frustrated when I first joined ukip a decade- plus ago, and was trying to publicise the Lisbon Treaty: I had to get all my leaflets from Campaign for Independent Britain, and very good they were too. But the Ukip website hardly anything and no leaflets. So I think this goes a long way back in time.
More lately, I had not heard of the Barcelona Declaration until I saw it on your poster.

PS Shortly after I had these problems over Lisbon Treaty, the excellent UKIP newspaper was born. and I must give credit for this: but the work and the impetus came from local kippers not head office as far as I know

Down the years I have seen sabotage right under my nose and the saboteurs, if they’re reading this, know exactly what I am referring to. But NOTHING has been more cunningly sabotaged than the UKIP National Website and for obvious reasons; ‘wreck UKIP’s online efforts and they’ll never get too far’. The same thing is going on right now and the ‘new’ website will mysteriously be afflicted by the same ‘accidents’. A second form of sabotage is the placement of incompetents in key positions, what Freddy rightly calls ‘designed to fail’. Nigel Farage was taken in by it – it remains to be seen if Gerard is smarter.

I noticed in Independence that Gerard refers to a new website due to go live in June (it is July whilst I type this). More sabotage? Gerard himself has not ruled out sabotage, simply says that he can’t prove it.

“Nothing about the march, nothing about the anniversary, nothing about Paul Joseph Watson and Milo joining. As a political party , we only sell one product, communications. The pitiful state of the website and the links below, really say it all”.

UKIP was in 2014-15 Britain’s third largest party, it still has many thousands of members, and half the regional web sites either aren’t linked to at all or need updating.

Fair disclosure: I left UKIP for For Britain and we don’t even have regions yet. But if those Internet personalities joined us you can bet your bottom dollar we’d make a big deal about it on our web site. The internet personalities and the 1,000 people who came with them may not renew their membership once they find that UKIP can’t even get itself into gear to put an article about them on its own web site.

If anyone wants to know who really run UKIP then I suggest you study the website of The Freedom Association, who Mick McGough (NEC) is the treasurer, and founded by the McWhirters amongst others. Its a libertarian pressure group, that came out of the tory right wing. I think that’s all well and good, no problems with their ideology, but they should not be treating UKIP as their political wing, a kind of IRA – Sinn Fein arrangement. There is a group of these people who think this party belongs to them, hold back all reform, and are happy to keep things that way as long as they remain in actual charge, whoever the leader happens to be. Hence the NEC elections are kept easy to manipulate so that these guys can stay influential, all they have to do is have a couple of hundred of their members vote in blocks and they can keep their people on in power, plus make some donations, get special access, etc etc. It’s a great arrangement for them but not necessarily the rest of us. The chairman of the freedom association is simon richards, if you follow his twitter feed and watch who and what he retweets you can see who the gang are, people like Alan Sked, John Redwood, Douglas Carswell, Daniel Hannan (head of YBF – Young Britons Foundation), Suzanne Evans, Roger Helmer, Rees-Mogg. What he doesn’t tweet anything about it populism – no mention of islam, tommy robinson, Trump, etc. Basically this group of people are tories who want UKIP to help them get influence over the Tory party (and in this they were probably proved right) but they don’t support populism. And here is the problem for UKIP. So the members need to make a choice, whether they want a more populist direction as Gerard is mapping out and as Nuttall may have followed, or they want to remain as an essentially tory pressure group. At least the party should be honest about this and get it all out into the open. Being overtly libertarian (which means anti-NHS by the way) would at least be better than the current confusion and then all the populists could move on.

As to the FA’s influence in the Tory party I am sceptical. The party is in the grip of May and Hammond. As to the FA’s influence in UKIP you may be right. We outside the tent wouldn’t know.

If it’s a choice between being the provisional wing of the Tory party and populism I go with populism. Tories are now a tax and spend centre ground liberal social justice numpties. If FA members are truly libertarian they should leave and join UKIP.

“Designed to fail” has been in operation for many years within UKIP; we are permitted to succeed only within tight limits. Nothing is permitted which could really hurt the Tories.

And the expensive freemasons have left lower-grade spoilers in place, including at least two prominent ones at national level and at least three at regional, to prepare for the Second Coming to complete the job.

You know who they are, some of us suspect who they are and others do not know. When it comes to voting for NEC members, say, many will cast their eyes down the ballot paper and vote for the names that they recognise. What can we do to ensure those UKIP wreckers do not get the opportunity to ‘complete the job’?

As a new member I don’t know, except for those suggested by Tomaz Slivnik a long time ago. Hopefully I will be able to attend conference and be enlightened by you.

Tacitus
on July 8, 2018 at 4:18 pm

Oh dear Jack. You still don’t understand, your are a kind of simple guy, a typical UKIP member, who reads articles but cannot see what is written between the lines. Tomas is from the Libertarian wing of the party (they wouldn’t call it a wing, they would say they are the core, because the word ‘libertarian’ is in the constitution), the same people as the Freedom Association (e.g. Mick McGough who is on the NEC). The people Tomas named and shamed are what he’d call the socialists who had infiltrated UKIP, namely Patrick O’Flynn and taken UKIP in a populist direction that Nuttall latched on to (but was found wanting as his new socialist positions on e.g. the NHS were easily found to be in conflict with his original more libertarian positions). Nuttall also did the integration agenda under the guidance of Peter Whittle which is again anathema to libertarians, who are not particularly hung up about religion (hence people like Jonathan Arnott resigned). Gerard himself referred to UKIP as a ‘patriotic, populist party’ recently, not a ‘patriotic, libertarian party’. But Gerard also freely admits that his time here will be short. In Independence, he says that during his time his focus will be on pointing UKIP in the ‘right direction politically’ but (a) he doesn’t define it, although what he does say smells like populism not libertarianism, and (b) he’s wrong because he only has another 7 months and whoever takes over can simply drop everything he says and does. The fight is between the libertarians, who believe this is their party and they use it to influence Tory party policy, and the populists, who want UKIP to be a standalone political party that doesn’t exist for the purpose of influencing Tory party policy and is a broadly patriotic movement appealing to people from all parties with policies that could be any -ism as long as they are popular. However, this fight is rarely held in the open and so most simple members simply wonder at why nothing ever happens.

mary
on July 10, 2018 at 8:33 am

I dont want to help or influence the Tory Party, I want to see the end of it. Look where its got us. For decades it has obstructed the attempt to put Britain straight, while all along deceiving people into thinking otherwise. Total con artists. According to your edifying comment (which I believe), the Tories have also nearly destroyed the UKIP lifeboat which might have saved us. Total poison. I hope people dont get duped into putting their trust in Mogg either. And no I don’t want to see Labour in government either, but to my mind the Tories are taking us to the same destination.

Tacitus
on July 10, 2018 at 12:47 pm

I predict a life of frustration for you in UKIP. It is not intended to destroy the tory party. Just point it in the right direction.

mary
on July 10, 2018 at 2:29 pm

Not possible. so what now?

mary
on July 11, 2018 at 6:26 pm

PPS “Not possible. so what now?” I do know the answer to that really : yesterday when I wrote that, I was in despair like everyone else over ever making a dent in our enemies!

Tacitus, you have not named the spider at the centre of the web, who has never been UKIP Leader, and whose motivation is to deliver us to the Tories in a pine box so he can collect his knighthood and arrange for a peerage for another. His intermediary and well-paid bag boy will actually do all the work, affording the main player plausible deniability.

Hint: The appalling misplaying of the Jane Collins libel suit, the gross misrepresentation and understatement of the resulting liability (how lucky we were it was not twice as high again – we merely ended up with 10 times what “they” guaranteed us was the maximum amount, before swiftly deserting the ship they were sure was sinking).

Is your skirting round the edges but omitting the main players or game:
(a) because you didn’t know
(b) because you knew but were afraid to say
(c) because you’re in on it but are part of it, hence blowing smoke to divert people.

I am very concerned about the saboteurs left behind, some in high positions.

Tacitus
on July 13, 2018 at 9:12 am

(a) I don’t know. I don’t have any inside information, but I just watch what is going on, listen to what people say and draw my own conclusions about the general state, but specifically who does what I don’t know.

mary
on July 11, 2018 at 6:19 pm

I was looking at Kipper Central articles round about Oct 2017 just after Bolton was elected leader. There was one article re “Henry Bolton’s newly formed team”: but all there was, was the heading and a few comments. The text of the article had been taken out, so that we can no longer see who his team were.. Deliberate skulduggery I suppose?

The Freedom Association have launched an appeal for funding for street stalls – ‘Once again The Freedom Association is taking the lead…www.tfa.net/will_you_sponsor_a_better_off_out_street_stall

and from this week onwards wants stalls to be held in every constituency in which the MP is not upholding the Referendum result. Isn’t it galling that it thinks it is ‘taking the lead’ in any constituency where UKIP has been holding regular action mornings and campaigns since June 2016. That said a TFA member asked me if I would be interested in a joint debut stall this morning handing out their leaflets and UKIP leaflets. Every help in bringing attention to our Brexit wrecking Totnes MP, Sarah Wollaston, is welcome. Our stall coincided with Sarah’s appearance on BBC Daily Politics in which she called for Theresa May to sack all hardline Brexiteers in the cabinet who have gone against the government line and pushed for a hard Brexit. It beggars belief doesn’t it.

Who else is in the gang? Paul O, our former chairman, was employed by Roger Helmer. So can one assume that he is in the gang? Suzanne Evans, was a researcher for Douglas Carswell I believe, so no surprise there.

Thanks Taciturn-Ceri Jayes. The picture is becoming clearer. There is definitely a deliberate blockage within UKIP. One which is beyond dyno-rod. It is good that people are beginning to name names, The NEC vote arrived today, haven’t the foggiest who most of them are aside from Debbie LE MAY. I have heard of, Donald Mackay, Andrew Moncreiff and Paul Oakley who I confuse with Paul Oakden; Nathan Ryding and Ben Walker. Looking at the bios Richard Ford seems impressive. So I have one vote sorted with Debbie, but know little about the rest. How do I know who the wreckers are ?

I personally avoided anyone proposed or seconded by PO who apparently claimed to be a airline pilot? Hints were dropped at some stage by Freddy Vaccha some time back (I hope he doesn’t mind me quoting him here?) re an airline pilot and colonel sanders (someone looking like the Kentucky Fried Chicken logo but who isn’t rearing his head at present). Then I chose some younger faces plus Debbie of course. Still pencilled in and keeping my nose to the ground for a bit longer.
Your expression re Dyno Rod brilliant!

Mary thanks for the comment which is helpful in my selection, I was looking at Nathan as being a good choice (after Debbie of course).

Sadly there is still sabotage within UKIP, which is, in a way, a great compliment for the UKIP membership. I believe the conservatives are behind the sabotage.

UKIP is fortunate to have Gerard Batten as temporary leader.
Hopefully he will circumscribe the saboteurs.

Tacitus
on July 9, 2018 at 5:28 pm

As usual, the bios are an utter joke. There is no independent review of them. This is how we ended up with Henry Bolton as leader, have we learned nothing, or is UKIP being ‘designed to fail’ as someone else said? For example, Paula Walters (apologies for picking on her, purely for illustration, I don’t think she is part of any faction except animal rights). Nice lady, but her branch is a disaster. In the last local elections where they could have put up over 30 candidates she managed to put up only one, herself. She got 107 votes out of the 30,000 cast in the borough. Piers Wauchope (a barrister of course, who was on the NEC during the whole Jane Collins damages fiasco and yet somehow did not prevent UKIP as a party being attached to the proceedings despite it being an obvious risk) is the returning officer presiding over this farce.

the NEC election process is the key “design to fail” process. How can anyone vote on a few paragraphs ? This is how Henry Bolton was elected, too. Not all ex-Tories are part of this cabal, but this cabal are all ex-tories. The whole point was for them to mobilise the right wing of the Tory party by giving them another party they could vote for, and thereby control direction of Tory party as a whole.

Thanks Tacitus for both of these comments on this NEC election affair.

mary
on July 10, 2018 at 8:16 am

Re NEC candidate voting:t If like myself you think GB is taking us in the right direction, I take it then we need to be cautious about candidates describing themselves as libertarian? They may not be deliberate mischief makers but they are not what we want?

I am not opposed to libertarians at all. In fact as I think about the choices I make in my life they tend to be libertarian. I believe in small government, low tax and taking personal responsibility. That’s not my beef, I just want all this to be out in the open, so that members understand what is going on, and then have a choice over what they want the party to be.

“I am told that they said, ‘What would really upset these so called ‘social justice warriors’?’ Let’s join UKIP!”

Whimsically in may be followed by whimsically out – at the first period of boredom or not getting your own way etc.

Several of us (UKIP Daily types) have written about the lamentable state of the party’s website at various times over the past two years. To no avail whatsoever.

We have a new leader, new chairman, and new treasurer. All very busy – they tell us so. Indeed, it is probably true but without their telling us we would not know for sure.

A new website would be a visible manifestation of the party’s revival, a signal that there is a real change, Instead we are having to implore the new management just as we told the old management – prioritise the website. Turn into a channel bypassing the MSM.

I believe I read in a comment on this site a few months OK that there was a committee working on speccing out a new website with mention of following PRINCE methodology (the very one behind all the government’s IT failures). I knew then ….

Catherine…well said,I have been joining discussions for weeks saying that to start a rebirth of UKIP needs a coordinated membership recruitment drive . You have stated the number of views etc to see various sites,so why not at the end of any of them is just a little advert to join UKIP.
Look at the Facebook pages of UKIP,over 500,000 followers but nothing to recruit members,and if you look at all the various affiliated sites there literally 100,000 of potential members….and once you have got them to pay a fee they are more likely to vote UKIP…plus those fees could be used to start a billboard campaign…etc,better website,a proper media team( full time) and would gain traction as more leave voters feel betrayed by May

Russell sent out a newsletter? I didn’t get one despite being a member for over 5 years. Seems they can never sort out the email issues. How hard can it be to reconcile the membership database to the email database?

Catherine, here’s the thing. I have come to the conclusion that the people who really run UKIP, the donors, the Mick McGoughs, these people don’t want UKIP to be successful. It was their plaything, their ball. They have taken their ball and gone home. Nobody else has the right to play with it as they didn’t pay for it! Members were just there to be used when needed.

You are one of the senior people now, at least on paper. But in fact, not. You will not be one of the special people, the friends of friends, who get invited to do the ‘important’ jobs. I spoke to Crowther once about a role, and to my amazement he pointed me in the direction of someone he obviously trusted as a next step. This person had no official role in UKIP, had never been selected by members, had no profile, but he was one of the men in their 60s who do the actual work. He then tried impressing me by boasting about all the things he was doing for Oakden. Again, this guy was simply appointed as being a friend of a friend.

Until this culture is broken (and I was horrified to see Pat Bryant is repeating it by simply reaching out to people she knows) then UKIP can never be successful, as anyone with talent is repulsed, and only the cronies survive.

At last Tacitus you have put the finger on the problem.
I have been asking for years “who are the men in Grey Suits within UKIP who operate as a “clique” behind the scenes and really stultify the beating heart of UKIP destroy ambition enterprise and initiative. I call Remoaners by their rightful name WRECKERS I class our “enemy within” in with that mob.
They must be outed and UKIP liberated from their dead hand.
Incidentally I have never had an answer about the presence of YBF members at the top end of UKIP which I believe in essence is a Conservative think tank.
Can you or anybody else give me an answer now..

“How hard can it be to reconcile the membership database to the email database? ”

Why on earth are they separate? It is simply not necessary ; perhaps the idea was to deal with emails being sent out to non-members and even that could be accommodated. As for reconciling the present situation it should not be that difficult as a temporary fix.

I only seem get the odd email so I guess that I am one of those missing some.

I was amazed at the speed which Russell was able to fundraise, organise, and produce the artwork for the poster van. It had a great impact, and was worth every penny.

I am in regular email contact with him, often humourous, but always with a sense of purpose. I cannot understand why he has not been appointed to a more senior position within UKIP. Communications is absolutely vital.

By the time that the third video linked to had reached the number of viewings of the first, thousands of years would have passed. Entire new species may have evolved. The distant descendants of Freddy’s Koi carp may have evolved the ability to express a political opinion, and the Koi suffragists movement would be clamouring for the right to vote. The voting age for humans could have been reduced to eight years, or to the age where nappies are no longer required, whichever came first.