14. Stop killing the Cowboys. Just stop. Dallas got the No. 1 center on many boards at 31 (Travis Frederick), filling a gaping hole; an offensive tight end to someday replace Jason Witten (Gavin Escobar) at 47; and a 51-game starter at wideout from Baylor, Terrance Williams (who averaged 19 yards a catch last year) at 74. As one GM told me Sunday: "Frederick might be a reach, but if you get a starter for your team for six or eight years -- at any position -- isn't that worth the 31st pick overall in a lousy draft?"

__________________
When you reach the upper level, your mind body and soul must be one.

I kind of like the Cowboys draft. I don't think you can go wrong with a Badgers offensive lineman, and Frederick may be a reach but at the back end of round 1 if you can come up with a starter to shore up that line it's a good pick. Terrence Williams and Joseph Randle will be steals. Love their games. Wilcox and Escobar are intriguing, maybe a bit early for Escobar but their is no telling when he would have gone.

Where did I argue he would be there at 47? I believe he would have been but thats irrevelent. My arguement is that we passed on better prospects IMO (if Im allowed to have one) and could have gotten a similar player to Fredrick at 47 if not him.

Never said that there weren't "better prospects" available. I greatly disagree with your justification that "similar" players would be available at 47 if not him though. Consensus #1 Center with the next one being taken much later in the draft. If that gap means "similar" than you shouldn't be mad as we got a similar safety in Wilcox compared to Cyprien or Elam. *shrugs*

I 100% agree with you if you are arguing that from a PURELY BPA standpoint we shouldn't of selected Frederick at 31. Problem is Dallas was in absolutely no position to draft purely based on BPA thanks to mis-management on the offensive line. If Dallas didn't select a Day 1 starter on the interior of the line our offense had a significant risk of being worse than last year.

By selecting somewhat of a project in JJ Wilcox is speaks volumes on how Kiffin feels about our safety situation. He felt safe taking a safety later in the draft that he would need to mold as opposed to feeling the need to draft someone who needed to start immediately.

The entire hindsight deal about the draft is terrible though. We know nothing about any of these prospects for about three years. Until then the gnashing of teeth is simply using the opinions of those NOT PAID by NFL teams for their services. No one gets it 100% right but to trust in the talking heads in absolutes is a bad idea. Frederick was a mid-1st round pick based on tape who dropped due to having a bad 40 time. Silliness.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SugarSean

From Peter King MMQB:

14. Stop killing the Cowboys. Just stop. Dallas got the No. 1 center on many boards at 31 (Travis Frederick), filling a gaping hole; an offensive tight end to someday replace Jason Witten (Gavin Escobar) at 47; and a 51-game starter at wideout from Baylor, Terrance Williams (who averaged 19 yards a catch last year) at 74. As one GM told me Sunday: "Frederick might be a reach, but if you get a starter for your team for six or eight years -- at any position -- isn't that worth the 31st pick overall in a lousy draft?"

Ding. Ding. Ding. Winner, winner, chicken dinner. The most impossible fan-base in the league is Dallas fans. Even harder still that most teams hate the 'Boys so Jerry will be getting kicked for this draft for a while. If it pans out you can bet your ass the accolades will not follow.

It seems like there is mixed emotions on this from the talking heads, which leads me to believe that we didn't reach as bad as we thought. For instance, Scott felt we got exactly what we should have in the move down per the chart and the only team who got shafted in any move downs was Oakland in the 1st round. He also said Frederick was projected to go in the 1st for awhile now, as that blog posted a few pages ago mentioned the same thing.

There really isn't anyway to tell where he would have gone, and I fully admit that I am no draft guru but I've read from a few guys who are deep into the draft that it wasn't a reach at all so I find it hard to believe with certainty that it was a big of a reach as it seemed initially.

I've seen a ton of places label him as a 2nd round prospect and a guy to not be surprised to see him go in the 1st, and the last 3-4 picks of the 1st round traditionally end up taking 2nd round value players every year. I would much rather have Frederick at 31 + that 3rd then Eifert at 18, or a flashy WR at 18 that wouldn't help much. The pick is growing on me, I didn't think Jerry would ever take a boring pick like a Center but it's a huge need for us and so is protecting our QB. I'm willing to give him a chance and see if he can earn his 1st round grade before trasing him too hard, but I'll still always compare him to the 2 other Safeties, Floyd, and the mid round Centers.

__________________

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scott Wright

I guarantee that if someone picks Cam Newton in the Top 5 they will regret it.

14. Stop killing the Cowboys. Just stop. Dallas got the No. 1 center on many boards at 31 (Travis Frederick), filling a gaping hole; an offensive tight end to someday replace Jason Witten (Gavin Escobar) at 47; and a 51-game starter at wideout from Baylor, Terrance Williams (who averaged 19 yards a catch last year) at 74. As one GM told me Sunday: "Frederick might be a reach, but if you get a starter for your team for six or eight years -- at any position -- isn't that worth the 31st pick overall in a lousy draft?"

Okay so I've had a few days to digest our draft and ready to comment on it.

My initial reaction to the Frederick pick was pretty much HUH! First off I felt that JJ didn't get good value for trading back 13 picks. To only get a 3rd rounder, I was disappointed. I do feel Frederick was a reach @ 31 in the 1st and that we could've picked him up in the 2nd round or maybe in the 3rd with our 1st pick. However, after watching the tape on him I have grown to really like the pick. We've all been very down on our Center play and we finally did something about it. So I won't be down on that pick. He's a very smart and fundamentally sound player. He should step in day 1 and be the starter. Can also play guard as well.

Day 2 picks. When Escobar's name was called I gave myself a self high five. Ever since the combine I had my eye on him. We caught a lot of grief over this pick, with many saying Witten is still in his prime, yadda yadda. A lot of teams are moving towards more 2 TE sets and one of those TE's being a very athletic player that can get down the field. We may indeed have this now with Escobar. While I was curious to see how Hannah would play this year, he just didn't give us enough last year that made you feel 100% confident he'd make huge strides. I liked this pick a lot.

I was VERY surprised to hear Terrance Williams name called in the 3rd. Again not a huge need, but a very talented player that early on was predicted to go in the 1st in some mocks. Highly productive in college and has great size and good speed. I like the pick a lot. We feel Harris might be that guy, but you never know.

JJ Wilcox- very solid pick. He'll come in and from day 1 will compete for a starting job. You always have to worry about small school guys, but he sure looks the part though.

Round 4- BW Webb, I had been very concerned about our depth at CB and was hoping we wouldn't wait until the end of the draft to address CB. I feel we got great value in this pick. BW could've gone in the 2nd round.

Round 5- Joseph Randle- outside of Escobar, I have to say this was my favorite pick of our draft. I honestly jumped up in the air in excitement over this pick. I saw someone mocking him to us a week agao and started watching some Youtube video's and I got excited. There's a play against Texas where he broke a 60+yd TD and in the process juked the hell out of Kenny Vaccaro. Since then I was hoping we'd get him. I believe he's going to be a very capable back up and can help spell Murray.

Round 6- Holloman- I know absolutely nothing about this guy, but apparently Kiffin likes him and feels he'll be able to play SLB.

I haven't looked much at our UDFA's yes. Overall, I'm very pleased with our draft. I don't believe in grading drafts this early so I won't grade it.

I'd say I wish we would've drafted a DT and a Guard. But with Frederick having the ability to play G, I'm okay with not getting one.

People are going to think w/e they want to think. At the end of the day we drafted a 2nd round graded player with our late 1st round pick. Reach...maybe...but reaching for a day 1 starter with position flexibility and smarts seems passable by me. Everyone of us in this room hated Costa...we all were on Cook once he started thinking he might be the future...we are talking about a guy who couldn't make it in MN or MIA as a ol....and he is the guy we were getting excited about last year. Needless to say reach or not I can't be upset about the pick at all. People slam Jerry for taking the skill positions earlier...but he moved down and picked up an interior starter. Hell I'd been asking for this for months. Our biggest need was our top pick...and people are still upset?

Say what you want about the value..but there is no way of knowing that he'd have been there at 47. After the fact we can all bicker....but if he goes and the Cowboys really see that much of a difference between him and the other C's....I'd read multiple reports that we weren't high on Barrett Jones. I know alot of people in here liked him..but if reports are accurate it really boiled down to Fredrick vs. schwenke ....and Fredrick is a much better player in my eyes. Some teams probably had schwenke higher if they value'd mobility for their center...but clearly dallas was looking for someone to control the front of the pocket. I have to agree with Romo...thanks for the extra half second. Heaven forbid Free gets beat around the edge and Romo can actually step up this year. This pick isn't a A+ by any means but it is a solid B.

Every pick after the 1st imo held good value. Escobar was a bit of a surprise...but for all the people bitching about value at 31....look at the rest of the draft...you see the value.

Read today that 7 of the first 17 picks were OL. That is absolutely ludicrous to think that many OL went top 10. Sure dallas got scared...did you guys really want a repeat of 2009...where we wait till the 2nd to get our guy and then have a team like Seattle move up and steal Unger...then the draft class went to **** for OL. We had a big need and addressed it.

BTW I'd have to say good job on the removal of Drew...because coming into this thread over the draft actually pushed me away from posting. It's ok to get your thoughts and feelings out...but after soo long it becomes beating a dead horse.

I know I have already committed on the Draft, but wanted to make one more point.

In every business people in charge tend to pick people who they feel they can work with. It is not always the most talented or the most qualified, but the person who u believe we have the best impact on ur organization. While some people will complain about our picks....lets give them time to be part of the team before we put them down.

Every player drafted had to produce and like other players they will be judged on how they play.

It's fun to play the what if game and that player is better than that player.....but in reality we don't know how players will react to the NFL.

Yes we have a old DL, but when u look at it who would u cut....at the most u can only draft 1 or 2 but who would u cut or release. The game is not just about cuting and putting who u draft...their are other implications that have to be considered also.

Am I happy with the draft..........yes. Could we have done better? Who knows.

Did the y draft who I wanted? NO.........but they never do and I am still a fan.

Magee is essentially our 7th rounder. We have him more guaranteed money as a UDFA than every 7th rounder. We went after him hard. Sounds a lot like what we did with Leary last year.

If you run through all of our UDFA's they are all EXCELLENT athletes especially those on the defensive side of the ball. If the reports of Kiffin are true, in that his system is simple and reliant on speed and maintaining responsibilities, we could have some very high upside players both from the draft and post-draft UDFAs.

It was a good read, really long edition. I've also seen other people not tied to the organization say the same thing in regards to Frederick. It's a mixed bag, but it seems to me that he was going in the 2nd round regardless, taking him at the very end of the 1st isn't a big deal to me seeing as how we have needed this area to get fixed for years now.

__________________

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scott Wright

I guarantee that if someone picks Cam Newton in the Top 5 they will regret it.

Never said that there weren't "better prospects" available. I greatly disagree with your justification that "similar" players would be available at 47 if not him though. Consensus #1 Center with the next one being taken much later in the draft. If that gap means "similar" than you shouldn't be mad as we got a similar safety in Wilcox compared to Cyprien or Elam. *shrugs*

I 100% agree with you if you are arguing that from a PURELY BPA standpoint we shouldn't of selected Frederick at 31. Problem is Dallas was in absolutely no position to draft purely based on BPA thanks to mis-management on the offensive line. If Dallas didn't select a Day 1 starter on the interior of the line our offense had a significant risk of being worse than last year.

By selecting somewhat of a project in JJ Wilcox is speaks volumes on how Kiffin feels about our safety situation. He felt safe taking a safety later in the draft that he would need to mold as opposed to feeling the need to draft someone who needed to start immediately.

The entire hindsight deal about the draft is terrible though. We know nothing about any of these prospects for about three years. Until then the gnashing of teeth is simply using the opinions of those NOT PAID by NFL teams for their services. No one gets it 100% right but to trust in the talking heads in absolutes is a bad idea. Frederick was a mid-1st round pick based on tape who dropped due to having a bad 40 time. Silliness.

Ding. Ding. Ding. Winner, winner, chicken dinner. The most impossible fan-base in the league is Dallas fans. Even harder still that most teams hate the 'Boys so Jerry will be getting kicked for this draft for a while. If it pans out you can bet your ass the accolades will not follow.

Ok so we both agree that we got shafted in the trade. We both agree there were better prospects on the board. We both agree we drafted for need over value. The question I guess is what we could have gotten at 47. To say that the #2 Center was taken much later than Federick proves that Fredrick is the superior prospect is a joke IMO. It just proves what a reach it really was. Let me just ask EVERYBODY on this board, play along with me. Jerry Jones comes to this board and says Im going to let you guys pick our first 2 draft picks but you have to pick it from this grouping, the most votes wins.

Group (A) Eifert and Warford. (B) Floyd and Warford (C) With a trade down Cyprien and Warford and Williams (D) Elam and Warford and Williams or (E) Fredrick and Escobar and Williams

Now if you guys are honest, there is NOT ONE person on this board that would have taken group (E). Not only that but even if we didnt trade down we still probably would have gotten Williams in the 3rd if we wanted him over Wilcox. Anybody going to argue against that?

It seems like there is mixed emotions on this from the talking heads, which leads me to believe that we didn't reach as bad as we thought. For instance, Scott felt we got exactly what we should have in the move down per the chart and the only team who got shafted in any move downs was Oakland in the 1st round. He also said Frederick was projected to go in the 1st for awhile now, as that blog posted a few pages ago mentioned the same thing.

There really isn't anyway to tell where he would have gone, and I fully admit that I am no draft guru but I've read from a few guys who are deep into the draft that it wasn't a reach at all so I find it hard to believe with certainty that it was a big of a reach as it seemed initially.

I've seen a ton of places label him as a 2nd round prospect and a guy to not be surprised to see him go in the 1st, and the last 3-4 picks of the 1st round traditionally end up taking 2nd round value players every year. I would much rather have Frederick at 31 + that 3rd then Eifert at 18, or a flashy WR at 18 that wouldn't help much. The pick is growing on me, I didn't think Jerry would ever take a boring pick like a Center but it's a huge need for us and so is protecting our QB. I'm willing to give him a chance and see if he can earn his 1st round grade before trasing him too hard, but I'll still always compare him to the 2 other Safeties, Floyd, and the mid round Centers.

Scott had him ranked 55 which would mean he should/would be there at our 47 pick right? Also we were screwed according to the chart value. 18th pick = 900 31st = 600 we got back 220. An even trade would have been the 60th pick(2nd round) and we got back the 74th pick. iDK how that is exactly what we should have gotten back.

Scott had him ranked 55 which would mean he should/would be there at our 47 pick right? Also we were screwed according to the chart value. 18th pick = 900 31st = 600 we got back 220. An even trade would have been the 60th pick(2nd round) and we got back the 74th pick. iDK how that is exactly what we should have gotten back.

Actually, that's not how it works for Scott. His ranking on players doesn't equate to where they will be drafted. That's more about how good he thinks they are. Doesn't mean Frederick ranked 55 would have been available at 47. That's a misinterpretation.

If you want to know what Scott thought about what the Cowboys should do, BTB had an interview with him and Tony Pauline. This is what Scott said himself.

BTB: I'd like to begin by talking about prospects at each of the Cowboys offensive "need" positions. Lets start with the spot of greatest need: the "big uglies" on the O-line. Lets start at Center. The team has a backlog of guys at center, but the players they have are all journeymen. So, they don't need another one of those; if they choose to address this position via the draft, Dallas will need him to provide an upgrade. Can you give us a list of names of guys who, in your estimation, are plug-and-play types who are ready to start as rookies?

Scott Wright:The cream of the crop is Travis Frederick of Wisconsin, who could also project to guard at the next level. Frederick just happens to be a great fit for Dallas too, although it's probably 50/50 as to whether he makes it to their pick in round two. The other early to mid round talents in the pivot (Barrett Jones of Alabama, Brian Schwenke of Cal and Khaled Holmes of USC) wouldn't be as good of fits for Dallas

So how can you really harp on the idea that we reached so badly? We already traded down rather than take him at 18. Scott admits that Frederick would've been doubtful to reach Dallas in Round 2. It was reported that Frederick's agent said he had a promise in Round 2. Many think that was Detroit. When you factor in the the information that is out there, you should recognize that it wasn't a big reach. You don't think he could've still been there in the 3rd anymore... right?

It seems like there is mixed emotions on this from the talking heads, which leads me to believe that we didn't reach as bad as we thought. For instance, Scott felt we got exactly what we should have in the move down per the chart and the only team who got shafted in any move downs was Oakland in the 1st round. He also said Frederick was projected to go in the 1st for awhile now, as that blog posted a few pages ago mentioned the same thing.

Yeah, the Kipers and Mayocks might think one thing, but I actually like what the talking heads have said...

Former Wisconsin head coach Bret Bielema

Quote:

"Travis Frederick is "pound for pound one of the strongest I have ever coached."

Tony Pauline (DraftInsider)

Quote:

"One general manager has referred to Frederick as the best interior run blocking line(man) the draft has witnessed in more than a half-decade"

Russ Lande (NFP)

Quote:

"Clearly, the Cowboys wanted to add a physically dominant interior lineman as that describes Frederick to a tee. He is not a top athlete, but he is a functional player who uses his ability to physically dominate his man at the point of attack to make up for it. Frederick makes it look easy stopping power rushers in their tracks and getting movement on in-line run blocks with surprising ease. He started at guard and center during his career at Wisconsin, so he could start at either spot for Cowboys."

Charles Davis (NFL Network)

Quote:

"One of the bigger centers, in the mold of a Pouncey, but a better technician. Very smart, cerebral kid, playing center at over 300lbs."

Dan Graziano (ESPN)

Quote:

"They needed interior offensive line help more than any team in the NFL needed anything in this entire draft, and this guy is an interior offensive lineman. He can challenge Phil Costa for the center's job or either starting guard for his.

He's a giant -- 6-foot-3⅝, 312 pounds -- and known as a physical presence in the run game. Run blocking might be a higher priority for the Cowboys in their ongoing hunt for line help than pass protection is, since left tackle is the one spot at which they're set and Tony Romo is pretty good at protecting himself and making plays on the run.

Just because Scouts Inc. ranked Warford 53rd and this guy 70th doesn't make the pick ridiculous. You pay your scouts to find guys who fit what you want to do, and then you trust them. All week, everybody told me the Cowboys needed to trust their board, and it appears what happened here was that they didn't have anyone they liked at 18 so they snagged an extra pick and moved down to take a guy they did like. If you think all that's left to you is second-rounders, then why not just start the second round two picks early and add a third-rounder that might help you maneuver into that second round Friday night?"

Louis Bien (SBNation)

Quote:

The Cowboys needed interior offensive linemen, so this was a good fit. While Frederick started as a center last season, he has the versatility to move to guard. With Cowboys center Phil Costa an injury concern, Frederick can step in at center and also provide depth at guard."

Dan Hanzus (NFLcom.)

Quote:

"It's not a flashy move, but Frederick gives Dallas' line much-needed stability. Phil Costa was signed to a two-year extension last month, and he could kick over to right guard, fortifying a trouble spot for the team. Frederick is in line to be a starter, whether that's at center or guard. Remember, the Cowboys just paid massive dollars to keep Tony Romo in Arlington until the end of days. Keeping Romo upright is tantamount. Frederick helps toward that goal."

Jesus Flores (RantSports)

Quote:

"Here’s a kid who holds several Wisconsin weight room records and shows exceptional power when engaged against defensive linemen. At 6-4 340 lbs. Frederick will provide a huge upgrade over incumbent starter Phil Costa and could be used at guard thanks to his versatility.

What I like the most about Frederick is that he’s mean; he’ll knock defensive tackles on their rear end in the run game. He’s not the most fluid offensive lineman, but he will fit head coach Jason Garrett’s power running scheme. I also like that he’s an immovable force in the passing game. His strength and technique will help alleviate the pressure up the gut that quarterback Tony Romo has faced the last few seasons.

Without a doubt the Cowboys needed to upgrade the center position so in my opinion, this is a solid pick. I had Frederick going early in the second round so; this isn’t a reach by any means."

Nick Kroger (The Badger Herald)

Quote:

"The Cowboys used several centers last season but failed to find a consistent rock to anchor the position, giving Frederick a strong chance to start Week 1 over Cowboys’ center Phil Costa. Frederick also started at guard for the majority of his 2011 season at Wisconsin, making him a flexible option for Dallas offensive line coach Bill Callahan. Callahan was the offensive line coach at Wisconsin from 1990-94.

One thing that most scouts agreed on that made Frederick such an appealing pick is his well-documented football IQ. Frederick, who graduated this past fall with a degree in computer engineering, rarely committed mental mistakes in his collegiate career. Scouts also used the term "nasty" to describe Frederick’s tenacity in the trenches."