Hugh Fitzgerald: Francis, Far From Infallible

At the beginning of every year, the Pope delivers an address in Rome to welcome the foreign diplomatic corps accredited to the Vatican. Pope Francis, a nice guy, has just delivered such a speech. It deserves attention.

The main theme of Francis’s speech is immigration, the mass movement of peoples, now this way and now that, for “mobility is part of our human nature” and “human history is made up of countless migrations.” True enough. But Pope Francis neglects to discuss what is for some of us so disturbing about the current migration into Europe: the numbers and nature of these migrants, coming from exactly where, trying to get exactly where, and carrying exactly what in their mental baggage.

The Pope does allude vaguely to “the grave crisis of migration” — but he is sure that those migrants who are true to their faith, whatever that faith may be (the word “Islam” does not occur anywhere in his long speech; the word “Muslim” occurs exactly once), are not the problem. For “every authentic practice of religion cannot fail to promote peace.”

This is an assertion for which no evidence is adduced, and no one, not even a Pope, is exempt from the need to offer such evidence. After all, a large part of European history has involved wars of religion. I suppose that weasel word “authentic” provides an out for the Pope: simply label as “inauthentic” any “practice of religion” that fails to “promote peace.”

Does that ipse dixit satisfy you? Would you not find more to your liking a pope who, before making such a remark, would have read, studied, and thoroughly assimilated the texts of Islam — Qur’an, Hadith, and Sira — which guide the “practice of Islam”? And if Pope Francis had done that, of course, he could not possibly have made such a preposterous remark in the first place.

Pope Francis continues in this dismal vein: “Only a distorted ideological form of religion [?] can think that justice is done in the name of the Almighty by deliberately slaughtering defenceless persons, as in the brutal terrorist attacks which occurred in recent months in Africa, Europe, and the Middle East.” All of those attacks, of course, were carried out by Muslims, in the name of Islam, relying on and often citing supporting passages in the Qur’an, against non-Muslims. All followed the example of Muhammad, that Perfect Man whose words and deeds are set out in the Hadith and Sira. There is nothing “distorted” about this form of Islam, even if it is not to our liking. It might have helped clear up confusion had he dared to mention, suggest, hint, that what we call the “deliberate slaughter of defenceless [non-Muslim] persons” is something quite different to the Muslims who murdered, or who approved of the murder, of those Infidels.

For the Pope, the current mass migrations into Europe evoke other migrations or movements, all the way back to Adam and Eve — “From the banishment from Eden to Abraham’s journey….” And those past migrations were characterized by the same “struggles and sufferings, the desires and hopes, which are shared by the hundreds of thousands of persons on the move today, possessed of the same determination which Moses had to reach a land flowing with ‘milk and honey’ (cf. Ex. 3:17), a land of freedom and peace.” For “milk and honey,” read “free or subsidized housing, and medical care, and education, and other generous welfare benefits” offered these migrants, especially in northern Europe, which is why Muslims by the hundreds of thousands try to end up there, ideally in Germany or Scandinavia. For “freedom and peace,” read Sharia and Jihad.

According to the Pope, “many migrants from Asia and Africa see in Europe a beacon for principles such as equality before the law and for values inherent in human nature, including the inviolable dignity and equality of every person, love of neighbor regardless of origin or affiliation, freedom of conscience and solidarity towards our fellow men and women.” Yes, how true. Those are exactly the principles — equality before the law and the “values, including the inviolable dignity and equality of every person” — that have made Europe a beacon for Muslims. And by now we are all deeply familiar, too, with the Muslim migrants’ deep “love of neighbor regardless of origin or affiliation” and desire for “freedom of conscience, and solidarity” in Paris and Madrid, in Amsterdam and London, in Cologne and Toulouse, indeed all over Europe.

But if the Muslim migrants to Europe want nothing, according to the Pope, save to come and practice “love thy neighbor,” he cannot be as sanguine about Europeans themselves. The Pope is worried — worried about the attitudes and behavior of these same Europeans: “There should be no loss of the values and principles of humanity, respect for the dignity of every person, mutual subsidiarity and solidarity, however much they may prove a burden difficult to bear.” For the Europeans bear “a moral responsibility to…ensure assistance and acceptance” of migrants.

No. There is no responsibility either to “ensure assistance to” or to accept migrants, from anywhere, in any number. And it is grotesque to demand of Europeans that they accept migrants who are opposed to everything Western civilization favors, including freedom of thought and conscience, equality of the sexes, especially none when the migrants in question are raised up in the firm, even fanatical faith, that those principles are the enemy.

Pope Francis laments the “vacuum of ideals and the loss of identity” which he says “dramatically marks the so-called West.” And in that “so-called West,” that “vacuum gives rise to the fear which leads to seeing the other as a threat and an enemy, to closed-mindedness and intransigence in defending preconceived notions.” It’s the Europeans who are needlessly fearful, a fear that is bred of their own failings, because there really is no enemy, no “other” of which to be fearful.

It bears repeating: Pope Francis is a very nice guy. But he’s also a sentimentalist, appallingly soft-headed. He offers comforting pieties, pie-in-the-sky hopefulness, mush, when what is needed at this time is something adamantine or, more exactly, benedictine. The imperilment of Europe — that “so-called West” — alas, requires more than this nice guy can possibly deliver.

The wrong pope at any time I would say . His denial of Christ and his giving credibility to islam is disgusting . The man is an intellectual , and I’m sure he knows what islam is about , and what Christianity is about . The man isn’t a Christian at all ; he is a smart ( debatable) politician following an unholy , un-Christian agenda . He is a pretender , a liar . And this is the Vicar of Christ ?

Denial of Christ, Ernie? Please, do yourself a favor and cease embarrassing yourself.

Look, I am an agnostic, but enough already with the Pope as some kind of anti-Christ. You contribute not at all to any intelligent and informed discussion respecting the erroneous thinking the present Pope has engaged in.

Et tu Brute. Jorge Bergoglio is not a “Pope” Garner more information concerning Catholic Doctrine and the Catholic Faith and Christianity before you spout your un-informed rhetoric. Despite being an educated person with a particular grasp of grammar and and construction you are severely lacking in humility and despite your claim to be here solely to fight Jihad and that others should stick to the agenda you also revel in disparaging other’s innocent comments, comments that they are not expecting you to “believe”, but which others on this site may appreciate and agree with. If you are here to fight Jihad then stick to that and don’t pick fights with others her just to prove your “superior intellect or knowledge” Infighting destroys and gains advantage for the enemy. FYI the enemy is Islam. Remember?

Above post in response to Wellington’s absurd presumption that Jorge Bergoglio is in some way thinking “erroneously”. No Wellington, he is not thinking erroneously as his agenda was set from his very early days as a seminarian and under the guidance of the former “pope” Ratzinger who’s agenda from his early days was the decimation of the Catholic Church alongside his Communist and Masonic brethren. Yes… inspired by Satan whether you like it or not.
But this is not the object of this site.. we are here to fight Jihad not to take cheap shots at others on this site so stick to what you know and not what you think you know.

Correction to the above. Bergoglio was not a seminarian under the guidance of Ratzinger. In my haste to post I confess! Ratzinger was a seminarian under the influence of Montini and both were noted by Pius X11 as dangerous modernists. Roncalli the so called pope john XX111 was a Mason and friend of the Communists and his influence shines through in Montini, Razinger and now Bergoglio.

Wellington, I certainly cannot speak for Ernie, but in my opinion, if there actually were an anti-Christ, it is the Pope of Rome.

I would respect him a bit if he sold all of those treasures in the Vatican to help resettle “Refugees,” rather than instructing others to help them. (And yes I have seen some of them.) Outrageous twit.

Agreed. I am catholic and will be catholic forever. But now I question myself of why I always pray for this pope in any mass I attended. I cannot call this pope as holy father again. He intentionallymisleads his flock. He lied when he said islam is peaceful in nature. He doesn’t uphold the true teaching of Jesus of not be afraid and tell the truth. This pope leads the West into its demise. I can only say that he is following satan to deceive people. I am really sad that very few church leaders speak the truth.

Did the present Pope lie, Tonny, or is he just “merely” ignorant, as so many in the West still are about Islam? Last night I heard an ordinarily very smart young woman, Joanne Nosuuchinsky, say on Fox that “Islam is inherently good…….’ Of course, she couldn’t be more wrong but I don’t see any kind of evil operating here, “merely” massive ignorance.

I think what is going on, with the present Pope, with Noscuchinsky, with every candidate for President of the United States (including Trump who only stumbled into the truth when he said that Muslim immigration to America should be temporarily halted, still not grasping what the overall picture of Islam really is), with so many people, is that folks simply can’t wrap their heads around the concept that mankind could actually get a major religion which is horrible, freedom-crushing and, in general, truly sucks.

Of course, mankind did. It got Islam. And so those who continue to ignorantly defend it, just about the latest example being the woefully clueless mayor of Philadelphia, are not evil, are not inspired by Satan, blah, blah, blah. They’re “just” ignorant. Massively so. And massive ignorance ordinarily is not wicked. “Only” stupid. Time we correct stupid. Very much overdue in fact.

Dear Tonny , as a Christian I ‘m with you , and I feel your pain . Christ will not forsake his flock , as he promised . I’m happy to hear you’ll always stay catholic . People fall , Christ doesn’t . Thank you for your sincere comment , I appreciate it very much Tonny .

The more you realize what his defects are, the more you should pray for him. Unfortunately he seems to be living in fantasyland. You might also pray that the Cardinals elect a different type of pope the next time round,which in my opinion is very likely.

Yes Tonny this “pope” and all since Pius X11 have lead the Catholic Church away from it’s Doctrinal Foundations and Apostolic Teachings to the point of Heresy and Apostasy on their part thus invalidating their claim to the Chair of Peter. Satan certainly is guiding the Vatican into serious error despite what some self appointed “specialists” like to spout on this site. If they think that Satan has no power in this world then they are sadly and dangerously ill-informed. Better they stick to the agenda of this site and continue the fight against Islam and Jihad and leave Christianity to the better informed.
Just hope my spelling and grammar are okay!

I agree with you, Tony. This Pope is too much of a communist for my taste, and he’s deceiving his flock by saying that islam is a religion of peace and washed the feet of muslim who certainly were mocking him in disgust. Couldn’t he have chosen a more deserving person in the society? There was another Pope, I think it was Ratzinger, who said the truth about Islam, that it was spread by the sword, which was very true. The muslimes, as usual , took offense and the Pope apologized, which I wish he wouldn’t have done.

Pursuant to Catholic doctrine, the Pope is only infallible when he speaks ex cathedra, that is to say from the throne of Saint Peter, which is to say when he pronounces upon pure Catholic dogma. The last instance of this, I believe, was in 1950 when Pius XII put forward the doctrine of the Assumption of Mary.

When the Pope speaks otherwise he is not infallible, for instance what his prediction might be on the next World Cup or whether it will rain on Thursday. But, and I think this is an important “but,” when a pope pronounces erroneously about another religion, and in particular calling such religion good when it is bad or bad when it is good, I would argue that a pope enters into a spiritual shade of gray area where the matter of infallibility is concerned. John Paul II erred occasionally about Islam and the present Pope a great deal. To the enormous credit of the previous Pope, Benedict XVI, he pushed the envelope on Islam about as accurately and about as much as he could. I for one miss him.

Thanks Wellington – don’t expect most people understand the nuances of Catholic thought.
Makes me think of Bishop John Fisher, the only guy not to follow Henry VIII, whilt all the other bishops caved, as did most Catholics – losing England from the faith. Now that historical fact is a lesson :the fact that bishops are supposed successors to Apostles doesn’t prevent them from teaching error. That means sometimes a lay Catholic has to decide if his bishop actually is worthy of trust and obedience. As for Francis – the evidence is pretty clear he is a modernist heretic and not worthy of trust so I ignore him

Please don’t forget Sir Thomas More. Like Bishop Fisher, he too was against Henry VIII declaring himself the head of the Church in England. He was also against “putting away” Queen Catherine in favor of Anne Boleyn.

To the enormous credit of the previous Pope, Benedict XVI, he pushed the envelope on Islam about as accurately and about as much as he could. I for one miss him.

Yeah he pushed the envelope, and then apologised! He went nowhere near far enough and it is laughable to consider he did. To go far enough he should have rubbished JP!!’s declaration concerning Muslims and God’s plan of salvation and then should have issued a Papal Bull thoroughly condemning Islam. No better than Mr. Jorge Bergoglio. “No Space Between Ratzinger and Bergoglio” by Dr. Thomas A Drolesky Ph.D.an excellent and extremely well informed and resourced book. For further info visit christorchaos.com

IMHO there is nothing Islams fears more than Christians, specifically conversion from Islam to Christianity. That is the reason why Islam religious leaders don’t like when Muslims and Christians get together, that is the reason why they demolish christian churches and forbid Christmas in Islamic countries. Isis wants the west to hate Muslims and reject Muslims immigrants. Hate and violence plays in favor of Islam, love and peace plays in favor of Christianity.

I think the Pope end game is converting Muslims to Christianity by way of christian example and charity. It is not an easy way but it has worked in the past.

No, you are not optimistic, you are delusional. One of those catholics who understand that this shameless man, they called pope is leading his flock to destruction. You are one of those, who trying to separate the church from it,s leader, who close their eyes on the fact, that this pope has blood on his hands together with the church and its members he represent. You are not even ashamed to belong to the group, whos leader is committed to destruction of western history, culture and lives of innocent people. It isn’t ignorance or stupidity. It is the policy of catholic chuch. By staying catholic, you support that policy, regardless if you aggree with it or not.

The only thing he does, is for mozlims to feel superior.
There has never been such a violent extermination of Christians thanks to the likes of the pope, or anglican ‘leaders’ or other Christian denominations.

And allowing islam ‘prayers’ in the vatican?
Who needs satan, with a pope like this one!

It started with Mohammed, no other religion should be allowed but Islam. Then he decided do charge jazia (sp?) only to the people of the book (Christians and Jews) . The pagans were offered conversion or death.Today Saudi Arabia follows in the footstep of their exemplary prophet.Islam is the only religion allowed in the country, conversion from Islam is death, but SA is best friends with western nations and is allowed to built mosques and make demands…and our liberal laws protect islam and muslims. In Europe Sharia is allowed and is parallel with the country’s law. One example is..hate speech, you can’t criticize islam or you can go to jail, and if it’s a foreigner who does it he/ she is not allowed into the country, while muslims can say and do anything…they are a protected class by the dhimmi politicians and the media… the consequences is what we see now..the cancer of violence spread by Islam and a certain war in 2016… Isn’t the west stupid?

Well it’s easy for the pope of talk, as instruct all the people of Europe that they show welcome Muslim immigrates For the Pope was not on the reviving end of those brutal sexual assaults as the poor girls and women in the city of Cologne as well as other cities of Germany .Such malicious sexual attacks by gangs of Muslim thugs against girls and women also occurred in cities of other countries such a Austria and Finland. How about the pope having compassion those crime victims in of those cities. What’s more how about his putting sympathy into action by having him have having the Vatican pay some of the hospital cost for the crime victims from the extreme damage done by those malice-filled Muslim savages. On a side note ,when the pope come out such such outlandish idea’s,as seen shown in the above article, he makes me glad that I’m a Protestant .

Dear Walter,
I think I can appreciate the anger that sparked Martin Luther now. Abuses in the Church are sinful and make us angry. You may be interested to know that many traditional Catholics reject the innovations of the Vatican II council held in the 1960’s which formalized this crap (we call it the Modernist heresy) and believe that this pope is a modernist heretic and as such he would automatically lose his office and the grace of God. So, even though I myself cannot officially declare him a heretic, anyone who knows the Catholic faith realizes this guy doesn’t have it, and ignores him. Sadly, many people who call themselves Catholic don’t know much about their faith and will follow any looney tune coming down the pike.

“Alas, many Protestants sound just like the Pope here–as do many Jews”

Well that may just be due to the fact that since Paul V1 instituted the Novus Ordo to replace the Tridentine Mass and altered the liturgy, the so called mass is now no more than an empty protestant service with no sacrificial element, and resembling a masonic lodge with it’s placement of the “altar” (table) and the “priest” facing the congregation. It resembles a memorial meal. And as to willfull denial and “political correctness” being hardly just a problem with Catholics I suggest that true Catholics do not engage with the Novus Ordo church and are anything but guilty of willfull denial and political correctness but rather condemn injustice, heresy, apostasy, liberalism, modernism, and quite openly state what they believe to be Truth.

I do not even think he is a nice guy. I think he is a dangerous man. The most favorable verdict of history will show him to be the useful idiot that empowered murderous governments across the globe. He believes in the primacy of governments over individual rights and freedom. He is now willfully blind to the physical slaughter and political marginalization of Catholics and Christians throughout the world. Instead of rallying a defense of his oppressed flock, he abets the slaughter by focusing the Vatican’s attention on world government for climate change and the destruction of individual property rights, which rights are the practical foundation of individual political rights. This Pope does not represent me but I must endure him.

Imagine for a moment what would happen if the Pope, or any other Christian leader, publicly criticizes Islam or Mohamed. It will be a gift for fanatical Islamist all over the world. It will justify the myth that there is a new “crusade” against Islam. It will justify an intensification of Islamic proselytism and christian prosecution in Islamic countries.

Ciudadano, your comment promotes the ridiculous notion that we, the infidels, have some control over the behavior of the jihadists. Everyone knows that these pigs are hell bent on killing or conquering every last one of us and they plan to enjoy themselves while doing it. What we say or do is completely irrelevant to them. Your assumption is asinine, and ignorant of the true nature of Islam. Get your head out of the sand.

I think the Pope is trying to be diplomatic, but Ciudadano reads a traditional Christian mindset into this Pope when he expresses the belief that the Pope is merely showing charity with the conversion of Muslims as his “end game”. I tend to agree more with Bill that the Pope is a “useful idiot”, and nod to Walter that this Pope also makes me glad to be Protestant.

Whence the “useful idiocy”, which, I suspect, a lot of us see in the Pope’s pronouncements? It’s the liberal theological mindset. It’s the determination to live down the accusations of “intolerance”, “bigotry”, “cultural arrogance”, and “cultural imperialism” that have been thrown at traditional Christians of all stripes for the past couple centuries. It’s a determination to tell the Cultured Despisers that we Christians are “with it”, too. It is a case of gaining the approval of the all those scornful and mocking people in media, academia, and “the arts” while losing Christianity’s prophetic and evangelistic edge (losing Christ himself, perhaps).

The Pope, like so many other people who call themselves Christians, worships and serves strange gods and idols fabricated in the imaginations of modern and post-modern sophomores (learned fools). Maybe, what Christians really need to do, is to expose and deny the modern idols that have left us at the mercy of an arrogant, criminally-minded Islam.

Look, any decent person, given the opportunity and necessary information, will choose always Jesus over Mohamed and Christianity over Islam. Often people feel attracted to Jesus and Christianity but are turn away when they witness hateful and evil behavior from so called Christians. In the other hand it does make a difference when people witnesses actual christian love in action (http://tinyurl.com/gngbhe4).

I don’t think this Pope is renouncing to traditional Catholic dogma, the gospel or Jesus. This Pope is trying make Christianity more accessible and friendly to secular people and Muslims. He is also sending a message to Christians in general to be humble towards non believers. Some Christians behave like modern Pharisee condemning and prejudging the other.

Ciudando, you are right about the impact that it will have on Islamania and the Liberal MSM. Perhaps, the Pope is just responding to what his handlers expect from him to say or revealing his erroneous lack of Christian virtue.. “Courage”..that motivates him to say out what he says at times.

“ Pope Francis wrote Laudato Si’ was because he is a big fraidy cat weenie who wants to be popular with his liberal friends (because if there’s one thing we know about Jorge Bergoglio, it’s that he’s a cowardly man who, above all, fears rocking the boat).”

Imagine for a moment what would happen if the Pope, or any other Christian leader, publicly criticizes Islam or Mohamed. It will be a gift for fanatical Islamist all over the world. It will justify the myth that there is a new “crusade” against Islam.
…………………………

Ciudadano, Popes and other Christian leaders honestly and openly criticized Islam and the “Prophet” for hundreds of years. It is only in the “politically correct” modern age that Christian and other leaders feel that they cannot speak openly about the violence of Islam.

Further, the idea that *any* of us should be prevented from speaking out about the threat of Islam is quite misguided. One of our biggest problems is that so many believe that we must whitewash Islam and pretend that it is a benignant creed.

”I know there are Christians who use love and some tough truth-telling about Islam to convert Muslims”

Exactly, Eduardo.

As far as I know, there is nothing in Christian tenets or doctrines which enjoins Christians to whitewash evil, or accept it. And aren’t Christians pretty strongly exhorted to **tell the truth** at all times ?

Graven, that’s precisely it–it’s only in this PeeCee age that people fear speaking honestly about what their eyes see, ears hear, and about what the Scriptures warned them would be.

Eduardo and Mirren: About telling truth–yes, in most of our dealings. However, we also have the examples of the Hebrew midwives in Exodus who deceived Pharaoh in order to save innocent lives (and were given families as a result) and Rahab the harlot of Jericho who protected the israelite spies. Misleading evil persons in order to protect the innocent is justified.

But, as for telling the truth about what we think of an evil religion–well, it’s a reason why I thank God for this site!

The Pope doesn’t have to lie that islam is a religion of peace and by doing so he legitmizes the cult and the attocities done to Christians, Jews and other faiths by the mohammedans.I am sure he knows better..but he says he doesn’t watch tv or read the paper. Certainly he doesn’t read Jihad Watch. He lives in La La Land.He is a limousine communist to me. You give away all you have while I keep mine.

Maybe the Pope should read what the Catholic Encyclopedia has to say about the ethics of Islam:

“(2) Morals

It is hardly necessary here to emphasize the fact that the ethics of Islam are far inferior to those of Judaism and even more inferior to those of the New Testament.

Furthermore, we cannot agree with Noldeke when he maintains that, although in many respects the ethics of Islam are not to be compared even with such Christianity as prevailed, and still prevails, in the East, nevertheless, in other points, the new faith — simple, robust, in the vigour of its youth — far surpassed the religion of the Syrian and Egyptian Christians, which was in a stagnating condition, and steadily sinking lower and lower into the depths of barbarism (op. cit., Wollaston, 71, 72).

The history and the development, as well as the past and present religious, social, and ethical condition of all the Christian nations and countries, no matter of what sect or school they may be, as compared with these of the various Mohammedan countries, in all ages, is a sufficient refutation of Noldeke’s assertion.

That in the ethics of Islam there is a great deal to admire and to approve, is beyond dispute; but of originality or superiority, there is none. What is really good in Mohammedan ethics is either commonplace or borrowed from some other religions, whereas what is characteristic is nearly always imperfect or wicked.”

If Islam have changed morally since 1914, when the quote was written, it is undoubtedly to the worse.

Agreed. As a lifelong Catholic, we were never taught that the Moslems worshipped the true God. Pope Francis believes this and other things contrary to the Faith and logic in general.

Christians don’t believe that heaven is a place of sexual gratification, the killing of non-believers, or that Mohamed was an authentic prophet. The Crusades were in response to Mohamed’s heretical attacks.
Those here defending Dope Francis are the same, like Wellington, who described Obama as misguided. Both leaders are fraudulent, intentionally foisting evil on us in the name of good works.

Well, Francis’s beliefs about Islam are enshrined in Vatican II and the Catechism, the bit about Muslims adoring along with Christians and Jews the one true God. Some apologists have tried to re-interpret those words to mean something other than their explicit force, but the great majority of Catholics are committed to this idea.

For my money, the Catholic Church has far less to lose if they would merely emend such language — because it’s patently untrue by any sober analysis. Keeping up such delusional opinions does a great disservice to those within and without Islam.

I think you’ll find that Nostra Aetate includes a bit about Muslims worshipping ‘the God of Abraham’. Fine. But which Abraham? The one who was stopped at the last minute from sacrificing Isaac, or the one who was stopped at the last minute from sacrificing Ishmael?

Hope, drop all fear of being labeled a “fundamentalist” and go find some more biblically-oriented church.

Where I worship, I hear people with a lot of compassion and sympathy for Muslims, but little use for Islam. We believe that any “Reformation” worth the while in Islam is for Muslims to turn to Jesus Christ as he is presented in the Old and New Testaments and away from the Qur’an and Hadith.

MTMLA: I’m not going to quibble over whether the name Allah can be used for the Christian God. Our English “God” originally referred to a bunch of wooden idols which heathen Ingevonians and other Germanic peoples worshipped. The Chinese term 上帝 (shangdi) which I used in prayer when living in Taiwan and Mainland China, or discussing sacred things with people from the Chinese diaspora originally meant some vague entity which only the emperor might approach. As for 神, (shen), which some Chinese-speaking Christians use, this originally meant one of those little gaudily painted wooden things you can buy for a NT$however much in the corner store; indeed, in colloquial Minnan, “shin” (as they pronounce it) normally means an idol. The Greek _Theos_ originally meant idols, too. We’re allowed to take things from that wonderful gift of speech (a gift from God our Creator, Sustainer, and Redeemer, that is) and put holy meanings into them.

@Wellington (Jan. 11)–What I wrote earlier is an encomium to faithful Christian teachers of many denominations throughout all ages who saw Islam for what it is.

“Pope Francis is a very nice guy. But he’s also a sentimentalist, appallingly soft-headed. He offers comforting pieties, pie-in-the-sky hopefulness, mush, when what is needed at this time is something adamantine or, more exactly, benedictine.”

What does “benedictine” means? Resort to a dictionary says that “benedictine” is “a liqueur, containing aromatic herbs and spices [like KFC!], orig. made by Benedictine monks in France”. As an adjective, “benedictine” means “of the monastic order based on the teachings of Saint Benedict, circa A.D. 529” but does not explain what these teachings are. What kind of fatwas did Saint Benedict issue?

You’re too kind, Raymond. Where I come from we would simply call this pope a compete idiot. Which he is. Another speech full of half-truths by this bizarre pope.

Pope Francis on Islam (make sure you’re seated):

1. “Authentic Islam and the proper reading of the Koran are opposed to every form of violence” [Evangelii Gaudium #253][November, 2013].

2. “Islam is a religion of peace, one which is compatible with respect for human rights and peaceful coexistence” [Religion News Service, December 23, 2014].

Read those two statements again slowly and then ask yourself how ignorant of the theology and history of Islam a person would have to be to make them. This pope is an abject embarrassment, as are the vast majority of his priests and bishops, when it comes to the question of Islam. Period.

I doubt that this is evidence of ignorance of Islam. Given other Marxist statements from this pope, I suspect that the statements you quote are more likely to be examples of the Marxist belief “tell lies to get what you want”. So I believe they are more likely to be deliberate lies.

I personally think we need to stop giving people the benefit of the doubt when they have an important job that requires a realistic understanding of Islam and they make false statements about Islam. In these cases the falsehood should not be assumed to be an accident based on ignorance, it should be assumed to be a deliberate lie intended to achieve some desired result.

So, if a random person on the street makes a false statement about Islam, probably an honest mistake. If someone like the pope or an imam makes a false statement about Islam, then it is a deliberate lie.

I like the way you think, Nimrod. I feel the same way, but so often, at least in Catholic circles, everyone ‘brow beats’ us into giving the pope the benefit of the doubt. But you are probably right: this son of a bitch knows EXACTLY what he’s doing and he is lying intentionally. One I thing I do know: what he says is FALSE. That much is verifiable. Thanks for the reply.

The united states and the catholic church has systematically been weakened over my lifetime. Coincidence; folly?!! Christian values have suffered a catastrophic erosion in mainstream society. Out with the old, in with the new… the progressives say.

“The history of all hitherto existing society is the history of class struggles.” -Communist Manifesto

The pope is expousing Liberation Theology which is essentially Marxism expressed in Christian theological terms. (At some point, Marxists decided that rather than try to destroy Christianity they would just try to have it “reinterpreted” in a manner consistent with Marxism.)

What he is actually trying to say is that this migration is just another of these historical Marxist class struggles, and in the usual Marxist manner he tries to redefine language (“authentic religion” now means “peaceful religion”).

Funny thing is that based on his definition, mainstream Islam is neither authentic nor a religion.

You can add Rabbi Lord Sacks and Anglican Bishop Webly to your list of nice guys. They are all welcoming the stranger, for weren’t we all strangers in Egypt, metaphorically speaking? They are merely doing their jobs upholding Judeo-Christian morality. Meanwhile, the Muslims are doing their job upholding taqiyya, hijra and jihad. To get an idea of who will win, just look at Turkey. It was all Christian in 1300 AD, and now is virtually all Muslim. Maybe it’s time to do a Judeo-Christian rethink.

Jesus told His Apostles to go and teach all nations, and Baptize them. “All nations” includes Jews, Muslims and all peoples of the Earth. All of the Apostles, the first disciples and the first major batch of converts came from the Jews. Pope Francis and Vatican II have said effectively “don’t evangelize the Jews.” So Pope Francis has effectively told Jesus to “f__k off.” If that’s not a definition of anti-Christ, what is? So why would I, as a Catholic who believes the Bible is the Word of God, and Jesus is the Word of God made flesh, listen to Francis at all?

Both espouse a system of ‘good works’ for salvation. They also operate through an infallible intermediary: the Pope and Mohamed. Both ideologies believe in a slavish adherence to their doctrines.

For centuries, the RC hierarchy insisted that the Bible should be preached in Latin, thereby controlling their devotees. Islam also dictates that the Koran is only genuine in Arabic.

They have both waged Holy wars for millennia against people they perceived as infidels, murdering untold numbers in the process.

Both ideologies claim to speak for God. Islam is often erroneously called the religion of peace, and the Pope also seems to assume peace is attainable despite any political situation.

However, from a theological viewpoint, both of these systems fly in the face of the New Testament. Jesus said that the only person who could intercede on your behalf was him alone. Good works are irrelevant for salvation. No human is infallible. He also said that many would speak of peace but there would be none.

Ever hear the Christmas carol-
Gloria in excelsis Deo
It means Glory to God in the Highest. See, it’s not too hard to understand.

It may interest you to know all educated people in Europe learned to write and speak in Latin, it was only until about 100 years ago colleges stopped teaching it. There was no attempt to “hide the Bible ” from the people to control them, that is simply Protestant propaganda.

Here are some Bibles written in Germanic languages before Martin Luther came along:

Gothic translation of Wulfila ~350
Charlemagne Frankish biblical translations – 9th century.
New Testament Augsburger Bible 1350
Johannes Mentelin printed the Mentel Bible in High German vernacular 1466
A Low German Rhenish dialect Bible, and one in Low Saxon dialect, published in Cologne ~1478–79
Low Saxon Halberstadt Bible 1522 (the year Luther began his translations)

Gloria – In Excellsis Deo

The Catholic Church does not teach that good works can save you, A mountain of good works will not save you, you can receive all the Catholic sacraments, it doesn’t mean you will be saved. The Christian will do good works because he desires to please God and walk in the ways of Jesus Christ. You might try scripturecatholic.com to brush up.

Holy wars against infidels like the Moslems – go for it baby! No shame there – If it weren’t for Catholic Crusaders, you would be a Moslem too. Finally, the religious wars in Europe were started by the princes of Europe, not the Catholic Church, over the same things as always: greed, lust for wealth and power etc.

I forgot, Islam teaches Mohammed was the perfect man. The Catholic faith does not teach the Pope is the perfect man, he is not impeccable as they say, but a sinner in need of redemption too. The meaning of “infallible” in the Catholic sense applies in a very narrow range of circumstance, it does not mean the Pope is perfect. If no man is infallible though, why do you believe Martin Luther was correct in throwing several books out of the (Old testament) Bible? The fact is, you accept his “infallible” decision without question.

As far as intercession, whenever you ask someone to pray for you, you are in fact asking that person to act as an intercessor for you before God, that person is doing the work of Christ, acting as a co-redeemer with Him in His work of redemption.

Michael, your statement concerning intercession is rather vague. Whenever we ask someone to pray for us, the person in question, 1. Is a living person. 2. That person, in this world, intercedes for us “in the name of Jesus.” 3. That person does not intercede for us with any pretension of supererogation on his part, that is, no intention that “his merits” whatever these may be, if there are any, are presented before God on our behalf; 4. That person must intercede according to the directive of Scripture, not fanciful notions, with a heart guided by benevolence. 5. That person co-labors with the Lord as a servant, not as a co-redeemer; characterizing that person as a co-redeemer is not the language of Scripture, and not a notion sanctioned by Scripture; maybe by some RCC theologians, but not Scripture; we are not co-redeemers; Christ dwells in the true Christian, by His Spirit, and we must learn to pray for others in the Spirit, and agreement with the Scripture. You need to do a more thorough study of the subject of intercession in the Holy Bible, using your own mind, and not simply parrot what the RCC tells you to believe.

Michael F. Poulin, from your remarks, regarding Protestant propaganda, it is obvious to me you have not done your homework. You need to familiarize yourself with the dastardly teachings of Rome over the centuries, all the way from prior to Augustin to Vatican I, 1850. The Roman Church has not repealed any of its rubbish from Trent, regardless of the “cosmetic changes” it has introduced since Vatican II. I left the RCC in 1972,– having been closely associated with Franciscans in Spain, and been a part of their inner circle for many years,– because I realized it was robbing me of my God given right to interpret the Scriptures using my own private judgment and the help of the Holy Spirit, — this notion is sanctioned explicitly in Scripture. Instead I was taught by RCC to depend totally in its “dogma” to even aspire to some resemblance of truth, or hope of salvation. It robbed my and swindled me, until I was 20. But, enough, I said, and I turned to Christ Himself and responded to His legitimate claims over my life, by faith and true repentance, which I was never taught in the RCC. I realized, among other things, the RCC was violating the Decalogue in many points by claiming to be what it’s not, and teaching what is not sanctioned by the Word of God, but, instead opinions of men and forbidding personal judgment, in other words, a monumental imposture in history, the Pope being the head imposter. No wonder he speaks like a modern politician; that’s exactly what he is, and nothing else. The Moslems do not need any extra provocation from Christians, the existence of Christians is provocative enough; their belief system mandates that they hate us and try to subjugate us for their false god.

” because I realized it was robbing me of my God given right to interpret the Scriptures using my own private judgment and the help of the Holy Spirit, — this notion is sanctioned explicitly in Scripture.”
I think you will find the exact opposite is true..scripture actually forbids personal interpretation, and that applies not only to you but Martin Luther too.
Try 2Peter 1:20

I mis-spoke. Latin was once the universal academic language in Europe, academics no longer use it for writing papers or daily discourse is what I meant, implying all educated people in Europe studied, wrote and spoke in Latin to each other. The response was meant as an answer to the accusation that by using Latin, the Church was somehow hiding something from the people. By the way, Martin Luther’s 95 theses were written in… get this…Latin! ta da

Your name is made a lie by your failed attempt at moral equivalency. There are numerous legitimate points to criticize the RC church on, try to stick to them, and not display your ignorance on both belief systems.

The article quotes the man in the Vatican:
“According to the Pope, “many migrants from Asia and Africa see in Europe a beacon for principles such as equality before the law and for values inherent in human nature, including the inviolable dignity and equality of every person, love of neighbor regardless of origin or affiliation, freedom of conscience and solidarity towards our fellow men and women.” Yes, how true. Those are exactly the principles — equality before the law and the “values, including the inviolable dignity and equality of every person” — that have made Europe a beacon for Muslims.”

The very idea that all people carry ” dignity and equality” before the law is a Christian idea. Nobody in the pagan Roman Empire saw people having any kind of inherent dignity. Many had no standing before the law at all; they were faceless before it. Love of neighbor is a Christian idea. These were values brought to pagan Europe by Christians, who believed every person was made in the image and likeness of God, and that alone is what gave a face to the faceless. It is sad that a man claiming to be a successor to the Apostle Peter would fail to acknowledge the source of that beacon of hope, the light of the world – Jesus Christ.

The main theme of Francis’s speech is immigration, the mass movement of peoples, now this way and now that, for “mobility is part of our human nature” and “human history is made up of countless migrations.” True enough…
……………………………………….

Unfortunately, some of those human migrations include invasions and Hijiras–where one group of humans migrates in order to conquer another people. The Huns and Genghis Khan come to mind.

So, unfortunately, do the Muslim hordes.

They have invaded and conquered, oppressed, and brutalized Infidels before, ever since the days of the sanguinary “Prophet”.

Francis is just catering to the mainstream opinion. As a public figure he has huge conflict of interest. You can’t preach the truth and not be offensive to false religions. If he actually stuck to his creed, he would be the Donald Trump of the media world.
Even Muslim leaders are total wimps to their beliefs. They think that Christians “take partners with God” (which is the ultimate sin) and yet they publicly play nice.

” … intransigence in defending preconceived notions.” — Hmmm, isn’t this the guy who recently said he would feel like punching someone who insulted his faith? That sounds pretty intransigent. The pope is undoubtedly intransigent when it comes to certain preconceived notions that he considers to be unquestionable tenets of religious truth.
‘

Talking of the Pope-
Also A la Alexander Pope-
“A little learning’s a dang’rous thing.
Drink deep or taste not the Pierian spring”
yeah, there’s a lotta stuff involved with sussing the shenanigans of Islam.
Even some Muslims don’t understand the real cause of their predicament, especially since birth, they take it as Bible truth, not as peer fear pressure.
The Pope has that expression that some Muslims have, like some drug that makes them hard ego’d.

Define religion. Once that’s done, Frank, then define Islam. Here’s a hint: Kill them wherever you find them. Or another hint: Fight until there is no God but Allah. There are many more hints, but all go not only unheeded but unrecognized. They’re left out. Popes are supposed to be learned, indeed every man in the Holy See is supposed to be. But we got nobody, nada, zilch. We’ve moved from mass denial to mass hallucination, which brings up the image of lemmings racing to the cliff.

There is something very disturbing about a pope who seems to have accepted a panoply of ‘true religions’.

If I were a Catholic, I would feel betrayed, or at least very confused.

It would seem that this pope is not even familiar with the ten commandments. Not even the first.

Thou shalt have no other gods before me.

(Full disclosure for readers – as a Lutheran, I am not expecting infallibility in the pope. However, I am saddened to see a major voice for Christianity appear to capitulate to a new age spiritualism.)

Will the Vatican put a COEXIST bumper sticker on the pope’s limousine next?

Scripture disproves the statement “every authentic practice of religion cannot fail to promote peace.” The Canaanite worship of Baal was a religion. Due to the sheer evil of Baal worship’s authentic practice of religion in real life, such as sacrifice to Baal of the firstborn, the Lord ordered the Israelites under Joshua to exterminate ALL the Canaanites, which they failed to do. Later many of the Israelites became Baal worshipers with severe judgments from the Lord. Other authentic religions include the Aztec worship of their sun-god, with countless human sacrifices. The Catholic church of Spain took out this Aztec religion, and the apparition and miracle of Mary of Guadalupe convinced the natives of Mexico to cease this practice become worshipers of the one true God.

Here the test of 1 John 1-3 applies: “Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world. Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God: And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist…”

Kinley, Hugh Fitzgerald–though a staunch Atheist–is *not* saying that religions are all the same–just the opposite. The quotes you cited are from Pope Francis, *not* something the perceptive Mr. Fitzgerald agrees with.

The not very smart Pope Francis believes he is the embodiment of the Catholic faith, rather than its trustee, which is why he is trying to tear up tradition and doctrine, the very things which motivated the successful fight against Islam in past history. He’s little more than a Humpty Dumpty Pope:
“When I use a word,’ Humpty Dumpty said in rather a scornful tone, ‘it means just what I choose it to mean — neither more nor less.’
’The question is,’ said Alice, ‘whether you can make words mean so many different things.’
’The question is,’ said Humpty Dumpty, ‘which is to be master — that’s all.”

Now you’re chipping me off. The poops new book titled “The name of god is mercy” just goes to show he makes things up as it suits him. The Name of God is “I Am”
As for the the rest of catholicism, praying to saints, Mary got anything to do with salvation, forgivness of sins by prists, transubstantiation etc is ALL contrary to the actual gospel. But … what the hell. The poop may not be satan but he sure is working for him.

“As for the the rest of catholicism, praying to saints, Mary got anything to do with salvation,”
YEP!
forgivness of sins by prists, transubstantiation etc is ALL contrary to the actual gospel.
NOPE!

Could you please prove your point concerning “forgivness of sins by prists”(sic) and “transubstantiation etc” (sic) being “ALL contrary to the actual gospel” or at least tell me what “gospel” you are reading?

Maybe the Holy Spirit is working on this Pope in a way totally alien to me, because I really don’t understand his positions towards Islam. Not that I think it’s possible to declare a new crusade or holy war. Those days, for the west, are gone. But to defend the path of our annihilation… no, I can´t understand him.

Sorry if I offended anyone…sometines I get angry at the stupidity I see all around us.

For those interested in Bible history subject try: Why Catholic Bibles are Bigger by Gary G. Michuta
It is quite well researched.

Any Friend of God is a Friend of Mine by Patrick Madrid explains in a clear way why we Catholics can pray for the intercession of Saints.

Lastly, When Jesus first came to the Apostles after the resurrection He said to them (after breathing on them) : (John 20:23) Whose sins you shall forgive, they are forgiven them; and whose sins you shall retain, they are retained.
The presumption seems to me that He invested the Apostles with his own authority to forgive sins. Just like a cop who gives you a ticket ultimately does so not on his own authority, but on that that has been delegated to him. So if I use my “god given right to interpret the Bible” as someone has said here, then my interpretation that a priest can forgive sins through the authority delegated to him by a bishop who has succeed the Apostles is within my “right” and cannot be criticized as not being “scriptural”
Vivo Christo Rey

What the Pope fails to recognize is that his idea of inclusion and his idea of what Westerners “must do” to accommodate those who want us dead will hasten the end of the Church, Christianity, Judaism, and all other non-Muslim beliefs and believers. So the Pope, in effect, is hastening the end of the world through his love-thy-Islam entreaties.

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