Let's look at this a different way. Pretend Jon was writing in with the following story:

Sara and I met through a dating website. She seemed pretty cool so I suggested we meet up and hang out. Sara invited me for drinks and video games (score!) at her house. Once I got there, plans changed. She asked if I was hungry. I wasn't, because I'd made sure to eat before. She said she was really hungry and asking what I'd planned for dinner. ()

I really thought we were just going to knock back a couple of beers and play Call of Duty, but she was pretty vocal about wanting dinner, so when she insisted, we ended up going to this expensive place she kept raving about. I ordered a water and tried to make polite conversation while she ate her dinner and had a glass of wine. So, at this point, the evening is on a different track than I had hoped, but things are okay, I guess. Then, the check arrived, the waiter placed it in the middle of the table and we just kept chatting. Finally, Sara says she's ready to go. I said "Okay." and smiled at her. Then, she asks me if I'm going to pay. I stammered that I was short on funds and she grudgingly picked up her tab.

Apparently, she thinks all dates automatically include dinner (paid for by the man) regardless of who did the asking and what the date was supposed to be. What?

I hadn't planned to splurge on dinner, so I didn't have enough cash on me. It was really awkward and she looked at me like I'd run over her dog. I don't know what I did wrong. I didn't ask her out for dinner. Was I wrong in expecting that "drinks and video games" meant "drinks and video games"?

I think eHell would tell him that he did just fine and that his date was way out of line.

Personally, my grandmother always told me that it was wrong for either man or woman to think they'd "earned" something just by showing up for a date.

Sara thinks that the reason that it's never happened before is because she has never dated someone as young as Jon. Jon is early 20's and Sara is early 30's.

Sara makes no sense, who did she date when she was as young as Jon?

His age has nothing to do with it, he simply refused to be guilted into paying for her meal, I think that shows quite a bit of maturity. I wouldn't be surprised if he laughed all the way home at her old fashioned and sexist views.

If I were Jon I'd use this as an excellent reason to run away screaming. He doesn't get any choice in going to dinner, tags along because they're on a "date," orders what's within his means and then his date demands he pay for her expensive meal. No way is that OK. Was he supposed to tell her up front that he couldn't afford to pay for her meal or refuse to let her eat? That would make him an utter cad assuming she would be so crass as to expect him to pay for an unplanned activity in which only she participates.

It kind of reminds me of a conversation I had with my ex-BF when we first started dating (in our mid-20's). I was just talking out loud to myself and said I needed to remember to pay my rent. BF gets really funny and quiet and finally says, "I'm not paying your rent." I was embarrassed that he thought I was some kind of gold digger!

Sara thinks that the reason that it's never happened before is because she has never dated someone as young as Jon. Jon is early 20's and Sara is early 30's.

Sara makes no sense, who did she date when she was as young as Jon?

His age has nothing to do with it, he simply refused to be guilted into paying for her meal, I think that shows quite a bit of maturity. I wouldn't be surprised if he laughed all the way home at her old fashioned and sexist views.

I'm going to take umbrage at the bolded. I am old fashioned, if a man asked me out on a date I expected him to pay for what he had proposed for the date activity. If I invited a man on a date, I paid for what I proposed as the date activity. That is the "old fashioned" way of d@ting, Sara was doing the "Gold Digging" way of d@ting. Furthermore, I as a single old fashioned woman living alone would never invite a man to my home on the first date!

Jon never offered to take Sara to dinner. Sara is completely in the wrong and outright rude for expecting Jon to pay for her meal because he never offered to take her out as part of the date. Sara's rudeness compounds itself by not having a few snacks or munchies out to go with the drinks and video games, as she was the host for the date.

There is nothing wrong with wanting dates to incude dinner, or even with wanting the date to pay for it. Lots of women have that expectation/standard/whatever you want to call it. Heck *I* do. But what I and the rest of the people like me do is - engage in communication and date appropriately. I only accepted dinner dates (well for years I did accept lesser dates, but I got to a point...) That was my expectation and that's what I went on. I didn't accept the drinks date and try to change it into dinner. I owned my expectations and yes, limited myself with them.

Wanting a dinner date isn't wrong. Trying to srong arm one when its not offered is so beyond wrong I struggle to find the word.

Let's try another scenario- Sara goes out on a first date with a guy. They talk beforehand and decide to have dinner out and then drinks back at her place. He takes her to a restaurant and buys her a nice dinner. He then takes her home, and goes up to her apartment for drinks. They have a nightcap and chat for a bit before he finally says "Okay, I'm ready now." Sara says "Ready for what?" to which her date replies "Well, the sex of course! Aren't you going to sleep with me?" He and Sara had never discussed having sex with each other, but he believes that sex on a date (especially after he has paid for dinner) is an "unspoken given," and thinks that it's very rude of Sara to have gone on a date knowing that she wasn't going to sleep with him afterwards.

Obviously, this would totally and completely not fly. So why is it okay for Sara to do the exact same thing only with a meal instead of sex?

Logged

"Follies and nonsense, whims and inconsistencies DO divert me, I own- and I laugh at them whenever I can." -Jane Austen

But those other situations may have been different. If the other guys were the ones to actually suggest dinner (even if she hinted first) and then paid the whole tab, that is more in line with "whoever invites, hosts." And if she was the one to suggest dinner, they may have waited fruitlessly for her to offer to pay for at least her half and then just paid the whole tab when she didn't. Because that would be less awkward than pointing out to her that as the inviter, she should be the one hosting.

In this particular situation, Sara invited herself to a nice meal and I think Jon showed courage in not giving in and paying her bill.

There is nothing wrong with wanting dates to incude dinner, or even with wanting the date to pay for it. Lots of women have that expectation/standard/whatever you want to call it. Heck *I* do. But what I and the rest of the people like me do is - engage in communication and date appropriately. I only accepted dinner dates (well for years I did accept lesser dates, but I got to a point...) That was my expectation and that's what I went on. I didn't accept the drinks date and try to change it into dinner. I owned my expectations and yes, limited myself with them.

Wanting a dinner date isn't wrong. Trying to srong arm one when its not offered is so beyond wrong I struggle to find the word.

I agree I'll go father ....it's not rude or wrong to only accept dinner dates to only 5 stars restaurants or to only accept dates to art galleries or rockclimbing dates. IT is rude to force a conversion. Sara did the equivalent of being invited for dinner and showing up with her bags planning to stay the week , she tried to take more then the hospitality offered. Actually she did worse she was hosting I'm not sure I can even think of an analogy. She didn;t just try to convert from her hosting to his hosting , she converted the basic date as well (I think even if she planned to pay for dinner springing"hey , watch me eat for 60-90ish minutes" was rude)...it's like she invited him for ice cream and before he got there ordered a lobester dinner , stuck him with the bill and didn't even let him get an icecream. BTW did they still go back to her place for games and a drink?