Germany where JB qualified ahead by virtue of the team calling him in for fresh wets? I think not.

Spa where Hamilton's engineers told him there was only a slight difference between the wings and the old was was the safer option? Risky, I'd say. Not that JB wasn't great that weekend.

Oz is more like, as Robfc says. China a draw, agree.

Just on germany the lap jenson came in for fresh wets he was on a flying lap so was lewis and on that lap he was a tenth quicker than lewis.The only reason lewis was ahead before jenson got his fresh wets and done his final lap was because jb didnt finish his early lap but went into the pits.Just to clear that up.

I agree Lewis has had a pretty unfortunate season, but bloody hell was that Singapore DNF costly. Had he not retired, he'd be on 177, Vettel 183, Alonso 191. I think Singapore was the straw that broke the camels back as it were. He didn't deserve it. Would have been great to see those 3 going ding-dong over the final 5 races.

That said, Lewis seems to have given up a bit, which is a bit premature because all it would take is Vettel and Alonso to take each other off in Korea and Lewis could be right back in it.

Whereas Jenson is really on form for the last number of races - he's out of the title for sure due to his set-up holiday earlier this season. But yet again JB could well end up the world champion of the 2nd half of the season (I think he achieved that last year as well). I can see JB beating Lewis again this season now on current form. For sure the excuses and conspiracies from pit stops to moving teams will be pumped out, but at the end of the day, JB is remembered for beating Lewis last year, you'll only find reminding of the reasons on here. So I think Lewis should focus on that now. He wants to join Mercedes to build a legacy as a great driver, so I think first he needs to concentrate on going their with a legacy intact.

Perhaps this pressure caused his twitter outburst. The reason I say this is that it came out last year that a big part of Lewis form was down to him suffering at the hands of being beaten by his teammate - Whitmarsh basically admitted the pressure got to him. So lets see if Hamilton is tougher this time around...

Yay, stick to quoting the qualy score, the bit no points are handed out for!Its also 10-0 to Lewis in terms of train wreck tweets isn't it?

the context of the conversation was about qualy so thats why we were talking about qualy you genius!lol and someone corrected me on the score...apparently its 12-3 to Lewis which is still a royal ass whooping regardless.And you don't need to convince me of Lewis's recent stupidity, I'm right there with you and I think he has behaved like a prize prat with his twitter comments.

Just on germany the lap jenson came in for fresh wets he was on a flying lap so was lewis and on that lap he was a tenth quicker than lewis.The only reason lewis was ahead before jenson got his fresh wets and done his final lap was because jb didnt finish his early lap but went into the pits.Just to clear that up.

Hmm, how about the lap before? Anyway IMO we can't really give it to JB is my point, a no-score weekend surely.

You miss the point. Hamilton had a shit race, but it doesn't excuse Button.He was beat by Massa and Kobayashi. How often have both of them been genuinely faster than a McLaren through the race this year?

If it were a football match, Button would have beat Hamilton by an offsided own goal committed with foul, or something as clumsy as that.

You miss the point. Hamilton had a shit race, but it doesn't excuse Button.He was beat by Massa and Kobayashi. How often have both of them been genuinely faster than a McLaren through the race this year?

If it were a football match, Button would have beat Hamilton by an offsided own goal committed with foul, or something as clumsy as that.

im not back peddling at all. for starters i have already answered that last question you posted when i said that in my opinion mclaren would prefer to have the current world champion driving for them next year and if Jenson could have got a good result today with Lewis further down the field then the points gap bewteen them would not seem so big at all. as it turns out from today Lewis has actually came out with a great result by cutting the championship lead by 10 points and who'd have thought that was possible after failing to dial the car in after 3 dry practice sessions? i guess there are many factors that would make me think a team like mclaren would want JB to win instead of Lewis including f1 politics beind the scenes( tho i have to admit Lewis and Whitmarsh have been great at complementing each other recently but before the signing to mercedes it was clear to see that Lewis has not been happy at mclaren for some time and many of the employers there dont seem to be too comfortable around him either...why that is? who knows) and sour grapes perhaps from mclarens part? why did whitmarsh come out and steal Lewis's thunder by anouncing Perez before Leiws anounced his move to mercedes.....it was kinda like a jilted lover that had to prove they had found someone else after just getting dumped and Lewis even said that he has not spoken to Ron Dennis yet....does that sound like a relationship where emotions are not running deep to you? I think Ron most probably feels betrayed by Lewis otherwise they would have been able to talk this out by now......who knows whats really going on behind the scenes but a perfect picture of happiness it certainly is not and thats why he is leaving a championship contending drive for a different challenge at this stage in his life.

If chanigng your position from 'McLaren will slow Lewis to get Jenson ahead in the WDC' to 'McLaren will give prefferential treatment to Jenson' is not back peddaling, then I really dont know what is.

Of course McLaren would like to have the current WDC driving for them next season. They are clever enough to know thats not going to happen though. JB's been out of it for months. This is where you entire theory falls apart, right at the start.

Furthermore, you are again showing utter naievity by thinking that Lewis comes out of this weekend with a 'great' result because he cut the gap to Alonso. Thats irrelevant - its the gap to SV he needs to watch as SV has the momentum and that gap is significantly wider after this race. I am actually amazed anyone could think it was a great result for Hamilton this weekend.

As for the rest, its nonsense. Its a long hypotesis of things you have guessed, and its only designed to give some credance to your theory which myself and others have told you is completely and utterly out of touch with reality. You talk about sour grapes, stealing peoples thunder and jilting people. Its like you think F1 works like a school playground environment and is led by emotion, instead of the highly professional multi-million pound environment it actually is!

I agree Lewis has had a pretty unfortunate season, but bloody hell was that Singapore DNF costly. Had he not retired, he'd be on 177, Vettel 183, Alonso 191. I think Singapore was the straw that broke the camels back as it were. He didn't deserve it. Would have been great to see those 3 going ding-dong over the final 5 races.

That said, Lewis seems to have given up a bit, which is a bit premature because all it would take is Vettel and Alonso to take each other off in Korea and Lewis could be right back in it.

Whereas Jenson is really on form for the last number of races - he's out of the title for sure due to his set-up holiday earlier this season. But yet again JB could well end up the world champion of the 2nd half of the season (I think he achieved that last year as well). I can see JB beating Lewis again this season now on current form. For sure the excuses and conspiracies from pit stops to moving teams will be pumped out, but at the end of the day, JB is remembered for beating Lewis last year, you'll only find reminding of the reasons on here. So I think Lewis should focus on that now. He wants to join Mercedes to build a legacy as a great driver, so I think first he needs to concentrate on going their with a legacy intact.

Perhaps this pressure caused his twitter outburst. The reason I say this is that it came out last year that a big part of Lewis form was down to him suffering at the hands of being beaten by his teammate - Whitmarsh basically admitted the pressure got to him. So lets see if Hamilton is tougher this time around...

Not sure why you think on current form JB is going to beat Lewis unless 'current' means last race?

Before that I think lewis has 2 wins and 2 no fault DNFs, one of which he was leading.

I also wouldn't pay too much attention to Lewis's attitude post race, as we all know his emoptions change with the wind and he conceals nothing, I expect he was a bit down at the time but I don't think it will stop him going for it in the remaining races.

I agree Lewis has had a pretty unfortunate season, but bloody hell was that Singapore DNF costly. Had he not retired, he'd be on 177, Vettel 183, Alonso 191. I think Singapore was the straw that broke the camels back as it were. He didn't deserve it. Would have been great to see those 3 going ding-dong over the final 5 races.

That said, Lewis seems to have given up a bit, which is a bit premature because all it would take is Vettel and Alonso to take each other off in Korea and Lewis could be right back in it.

Whereas Jenson is really on form for the last number of races - he's out of the title for sure due to his set-up holiday earlier this season. But yet again JB could well end up the world champion of the 2nd half of the season (I think he achieved that last year as well). I can see JB beating Lewis again this season now on current form. For sure the excuses and conspiracies from pit stops to moving teams will be pumped out, but at the end of the day, JB is remembered for beating Lewis last year, you'll only find reminding of the reasons on here. So I think Lewis should focus on that now. He wants to join Mercedes to build a legacy as a great driver, so I think first he needs to concentrate on going their with a legacy intact.

Perhaps this pressure caused his twitter outburst. The reason I say this is that it came out last year that a big part of Lewis form was down to him suffering at the hands of being beaten by his teammate - Whitmarsh basically admitted the pressure got to him. So lets see if Hamilton is tougher this time around...

But he won't beat him because he is better but he will beat him beacause the team made to many mistakes with Hamilton. Just like last year.

You miss the point. Hamilton had a shit race, but it doesn't excuse Button.He was beat by Massa and Kobayashi. How often have both of them been genuinely faster than a McLaren through the race this year?

You miss the point. He was in the same car with Hamilton. He wasn't with Massa and Kobayashi. There's a first time for everything.

I agree, if McLaren had got the strategy right, Jenson could have had 2nd place. But they didn't get it right.

They've sorted out the pitstops (pretty much). Now they need to take a long hard look at how they do strategy during the races.

This is the 2nd time within a few races that they've pitted Jenson into traffic for no good reason, and each time on a track where overtaking is very difficult (Hungary, Japan).

Who controls the race strategy and when to pit?

Incidentally did I hear a radio prompt to JB suggesting that now was a good time to pit that inferred he might undercut or gain on Kobayashi when in fact he had only 15 seconds in hand and even with a very quick turnround the total time lost in stopping was 20/21 seconds.

Incidentally did I hear a radio prompt to JB suggesting that now was a good time to pit that inferred he might undercut or gain on Kobayashi when in fact he had only 15 seconds in hand and even with a very quick turnround the total time lost in stopping was 20/21 seconds.

I don't know who makes the actual decision at McLaren. It NEEDS to be someone who is not involved in formulating the plan, because it's usually much easier to see the flaws in someone else's thinking, than it is to see when you yourself are getting it wrong!!

There was clearly no chance of overtaking KK by undercutting, Sauber pitted him into clean air (2nd stop) as soon as Jenson got close enough to be a threat. Jenson had to overtake him on the track. For that they needed to maximise the length of Jenson's stints to give him a good tyre advantage at the end.

I agree Lewis has had a pretty unfortunate season, but bloody hell was that Singapore DNF costly. Had he not retired, he'd be on 177, Vettel 183, Alonso 191. I think Singapore was the straw that broke the camels back as it were. He didn't deserve it. Would have been great to see those 3 going ding-dong over the final 5 races.

That said, Lewis seems to have given up a bit, which is a bit premature because all it would take is Vettel and Alonso to take each other off in Korea and Lewis could be right back in it.

Whereas Jenson is really on form for the last number of races - he's out of the title for sure due to his set-up holiday earlier this season. But yet again JB could well end up the world champion of the 2nd half of the season (I think he achieved that last year as well). I can see JB beating Lewis again this season now on current form. For sure the excuses and conspiracies from pit stops to moving teams will be pumped out, but at the end of the day, JB is remembered for beating Lewis last year, you'll only find reminding of the reasons on here. So I think Lewis should focus on that now. He wants to join Mercedes to build a legacy as a great driver, so I think first he needs to concentrate on going their with a legacy intact.

Perhaps this pressure caused his twitter outburst. The reason I say this is that it came out last year that a big part of Lewis form was down to him suffering at the hands of being beaten by his teammate - Whitmarsh basically admitted the pressure got to him. So lets see if Hamilton is tougher this time around...

Nah I dont buy it. Hamilton has had the measure of Button all season. This race and Australia are the only ones all year that Button has beaten Lewis on pace alone. We all know JB couldnt string a sentence together in Korea let alone a couple of decent laps so Hamilton ought to have the measure of him there. Dont forget Hamilton qualified 2nd last year in India and it was a penalty that dropped him in the pack. The US is anyone's guess but Hamilton is sure to qualify in front. Abu Dhabi Lewis won last year and has never qualified of the front row. The only race I see JB having a shot at is Brazil.

short of Jenson winning the last 5 races I cant see anyway that you can say JB has had a better season. He has had one retirement all year. Hamilton had what 4 at least none really of his doing and he is still ahead by almost a race win.

JB is lucky in some ways that Hamilton always draws all the press coz otherwise surely this has been a disappointing season for him. After all he is driving the best car in the field. Why aren't the knives out for him. He has had not the best season at all.

Nah I dont buy it. Hamilton has had the measure of Button all season. This race and Australia are the only ones all year that Button has beaten Lewis on pace alone. We all know JB couldnt string a sentence together in Korea let alone a couple of decent laps so Hamilton ought to have the measure of him there. Dont forget Hamilton qualified 2nd last year in India and it was a penalty that dropped him in the pack. The US is anyone's guess but Hamilton is sure to qualify in front. Abu Dhabi Lewis won last year and has never qualified of the front row. The only race I see JB having a shot at is Brazil.

short of Jenson winning the last 5 races I cant see anyway that you can say JB has had a better season. He has had one retirement all year. Hamilton had what 4 at least none really of his doing and he is still ahead by almost a race win.

JB is lucky in some ways that Hamilton always draws all the press coz otherwise surely this has been a disappointing season for him. After all he is driving the best car in the field. Why aren't the knives out for him. He has had not the best season at all.

I agree. Hamilton doesn't help himself with tweets like we have seen, but Button does help himself by being charming and willing to chat to press over the race weekend. At the end of the day, you don't want to destroy someone with prose if you count them as a friend.

I think its biased and unfair journalism, but then again I would. I'm sure there are plenty that will disagree with me.

Either way, he'll escape next year as well; if his performances are the same as this, the car will be blamed, as Perez surely won't be as fast as Hamilton so won't show him up.

His gearbox kept tripping into neutral when he was downshifting, after his pitstop.

To apply the Lazy principle, basically that was the fault of the driver, 2 races, 2 gearbox issues That aside, Button set the fastest lap of the race after reporting the gearbox issue on lap 18 (1:38.953) so I see that as an excuse.

JB is lucky in some ways that Hamilton always draws all the press coz otherwise surely this has been a disappointing season for him. After all he is driving the best car in the field. Why aren't the knives out for him.

You miss the point. Hamilton had a shit race, but it doesn't excuse Button.He was beat by Massa and Kobayashi. How often have both of them been genuinely faster than a McLaren through the race this year?

If it were a football match, Button would have beat Hamilton by an offsided own goal committed with foul, or something as clumsy as that.

Easy to see if you watch the race with live timing on. JB was pitted 2 laps too soon at the first round of stops, putting him right behind Riccardo who at that time was lapping 0.6-0.8sec/lap slower. They should have kept JB out until Kobi had cleared Riccardo, or has it happened Riccardo pitted, releasing Kobi. Up until then JB was gaining on Kobi and was going to clear Riccardo.

Up until this point JB was holding Massa up a little, but when released Massa didn't seem to lap any quicker than he was behind JB.

The early pitstop was probably a reaction to Kobi without any thought to Massa.

Cone the second round of stops JB was left out too long allowing Kobi to get away on fresh tyres leaving JB too much to do. JB went from being 1.9sec behind Kobi before Kobi pitted to being 4.5sec behind after JB pitted.

I definitely don't think that 4th behind Massa and Kobayashi was all the car had in it, but then I'll agree to disagree because there's no point going back and forth indefinitely.

It wasn't, but again the Team weren't on the ball.

If this had have happened to Hamilton, there would have been a forum explosion.

To apply the Lazy principle, basically that was the fault of the driver, 2 races, 2 gearbox issues That aside, Button set the fastest lap of the race after reporting the gearbox issue on lap 18 (1:38.953) so I see that as an excuse.

See it how you like, I was just reporting what happened. You obviously know more about the exact nature of the problem than me.

Don't try and say that Racism doesn't exist he is a high profile black man in a white dominated sport , Eyes are always on him just like the two sports stars i mention, if u can't accept that then you come across as ignorant.

Don't try and say that Racism doesn't exist he is a high profile black man in a white dominated sport , Eyes are always on him just like the two sports stars i mention, if u can't accept that then you come across as ignorant.

racism in f1 at the highest level? Nah i don't buy it and i remember the spanish and italian fans being scorned by the paddock regarding their attitude towards Lewis in the past....i guess you can never discount a few racist people being in the paddock but you could say that about anywhere.....i have no reason to believe Lewis is facing racial hatred in the workplace at this point in his career.

No burtros Im not saying the BBC are racist im talking about some people in general , Some don't like lewis because he is black guy doing well in a white dominated sport if he was at the back of the grid people wouldn't give a damn, when he failed like last year there was alot of Hatred from the general public(more so british) , racist comments people saying he wouldn't be in F1 if it weren't for his race blah blah people loved seing him at his lowest , Racism is everywhere and always will be .

No burtros Im not saying the BBC are racist im talking about some people in general , Some don't like lewis because he is black guy doing well in a white dominated sport if he was at the back of the grid people wouldn't give a damn, when he failed like last year there was alot of Hatred from the general public(more so british) , racist comments people saying he wouldn't be in F1 if it weren't for his race blah blah people loved seing him at his lowest , Racism is everywhere and always will be .

there is certainly racism from a certain type of f1 fan in this country....i remember being in the pub after he won the title and i got talking to some guy who flat out called Lewis a Black ****. As for inside the paddock i dont think there is, i think Most of them saw a black mans success in the sport as a very positive thing.