Mike Florio at PFT is doing a great job at commenting and reporting on the Miami Dolphins mess. Speaking as an attorney, I can't imagine how the Dolphins could have managed this worse other than have coach Philbin call Martin a "pussy." The are multiplying the civil damages with every idiotic step.

I am sure some of this goes on (the meals, rookie stuff) to some degree, but it is BS. I am also sure that people will bemoan how "soft" the NFL has become (it is always those that couldn't take 5 minutes of the physical wear and tear players take in a practice, let alone a game), but take a listen to Rich Gannon on why this is so damn stupid:

My prediction, the "Hand of GOoDell" will bring much much more pain on the 'Phins than he brought down on New Orleans for the bounty scandal. Martin will become a very rich man in a settlement with the Dolphins (they do not want this to go to discovery, let alone trial) . I doubt he will remain with the Dolphins, but will earn a nice paycheck with another team with the Dolphins getting nothing in the form of compensation.

W

_________________Fantasy League Champion 2010Pick Em Co-Champion 2011

We are building a fighting force of extraordinary magnitude. We forge our tradition in the spirit of our ancestors. You have our gratitude.

I am sure some of this goes on (the meals, rookie stuff) to some degree, but it is BS.

Why is it BS? Rookie hazing has gone on since the beginning of time. Rookies pay their dues and as long as it doesn't cross the line, what's the big deal?

Oh, I don't know, and maybe it is just me, but I think extortion (in forcing these guys to pay TENS of thousands of dollars for meals) and assault is waay over the line. This isn't carrying pads and water and camaraderie building. It is abuse and counterproductive abuse at that. We have had salve since the beginning of time, does that make it right? Your argument is fatally logically flawed.

I think Jim Schwartz said it the best. "This is a multimillion dollar business, not a fraternity house. "

Having been in the business that relies on TRUE teamwork and where you real life depends on your buddies, this is simply abhorrent and counterproductive. This stuff does happen in the Army and when it is discovered the hammer comes down hard. How do I know. I was the one swinging Maxwell's Silver Hammer and sending people to jail.

Yep, read that and I can't imagine how that helps. Sure Incognito called him a "nigger" (I don't use asterisks of dashes or any other tricks to cover a word, because, frankly, that is stupid because everyone knows what the word is) to his face in the locker room, that make it all right? The defense is "he laughed?" Oh. My. God. that will be about as an effective of a defense as "I didn't mean it." What was he supposed to do? Assault him? He clearly could not go to anyone on the team.

The author has his own issues and this is why I think the "Hand of GOoDell(tm)" will come down hard. They are really putting the "fun" in dysfunctional.

By the way "Richie Incognito" = "dick in disguise"

W

_________________Fantasy League Champion 2010Pick Em Co-Champion 2011

We are building a fighting force of extraordinary magnitude. We forge our tradition in the spirit of our ancestors. You have our gratitude.

Last edited by Wease on Thu Nov 07, 2013 3:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.

I am sure some of this goes on (the meals, rookie stuff) to some degree, but it is BS.

Why is it BS? Rookie hazing has gone on since the beginning of time. Rookies pay their dues and as long as it doesn't cross the line, what's the big deal?

Oh, I don't know, and maybe it is just me, but I think extortion (in forcing these guys to pay TENS of thousands of dollars for meals) and assault is waay over the line. This isn't carrying pads and water and camaraderie building. It is abuse and counterproductive abuse at that. We have had salve since the beginning of time, does that make it right? Your argument is fatally logically flawed.

I think Jim Schwartz said it the best. "This is a multimillion dollar business, not a fraternity house. "

Having been in the business that relies on TRUE teamwork and where you real life depends on your buddies, this is simply abhorrent and counterproductive. This stuff does happen in the Army and when it is discovered the hammer comes down hard. How do I know. I was the one swinging Maxwell's Silver Hammer and sending people to jail.

Yep, read that and I can't imagine how that helps. Sure Incognito called him a "nigger" (I don't use asterisks of dashes or any other tricks to cover a word, because, frankly, that is stupid because everyone knows what the word is) to his face in the locker room, that make it all right? The defense is "he laughed?" Oh. My. God. that will be about as an effective of a defense as "I didn't mean it." What was he supposed to do? Assault him? He clearly could not go to anyone on the team.

The author has his own issues and this is why I think the "Hand of GOoDell(tm)" will come down hard. They are really putting the "fun" in dysfunctional.

By the way "Richie Incognito" = "dick in disguise"

W

zing!

I'm pretty ambivalent about it, frankly. Although I love watching sports, jock culture has always been kind of unappealing to me individually. Not too different than military, construction sites, etc. As to assault, uh, that's pretty much what these guys do on Sunday for a living. Nobody likes a bully. Nobody likes a snitch. Hate to say it, Wease, but not many people like lawyers. I've always heard when they get locked up they tell the other inmates they are child molesters.

Just fodder for the news cycle. I thought it was interesting that Incognito used the term "weathering the storm" regarding this because that is how it seems to work. Snyder/Redskins was last week's cycle storm. If M. Vick can come back in the league and play then RC can too...perhaps Martin too but maybe he'll get a big check and won't have/want to. As to the "N-word", I agree fully with your stance. That euphemism is like the Monty Python Knights Who Say Nyet. But that's the "world" we live in....all of this is. Ironic that Schwartz of all coaches would weigh in on this.

I am sure some of this goes on (the meals, rookie stuff) to some degree, but it is BS.

Why is it BS? Rookie hazing has gone on since the beginning of time. Rookies pay their dues and as long as it doesn't cross the line, what's the big deal?

You're right hazing has gone on forever, and to a certain extent always will. Some of the stuff, as Gannon said, is harmless. Carrying pads and haircuts are pretty harmless too. I don't know how "demoralizing" a stupid haircut is for a grown man.

But the ATM/dinner stuff I think is where you sort of have to draw the line. We're talking thousands of $$, not just a few hundred here or there. I mean they were gonna whack a guy for that type of stuff in The Sopranos.

The big question is where the NFL comes down in this. Goodell has been known to be very heavy-handed when it comes to bad publicity and making examples out of teams. Thankfully Tags slapped him down on the Bounty thing, but it'll be interesting to see if Goodell over reaches this time to "protect the shield".

I am also sure that people will bemoan how "soft" the NFL has become (it is always those that couldn't take 5 minutes of the physical wear and tear players take in a practice, let alone a game), but take a listen to Lydon Murtha on why this is so damn stupid:

I don’t have a dog in this fight.

I want that to be very clear. I played offensive tackle for the Miami Dolphins from 2009 until the 2012 preseason, when I was released after tearing ligaments in my foot and injuring my back, both requiring surgery. I have since retired, and I’m happily working in the auto industry and living outside of Miami. I went to college at Nebraska with Richie Incognito, and I consider myself friends with him and Jonathan Martin, but I don’t speak with them regularly and I’m not taking sides. I’m only interested in the truth, which is what I’m going to share, from my own experiences and from conversations with friends still on the team.

Before I correct some of the misconceptions and outright lies being reported in the course of this story, let’s first establish who Martin and Incognito are as human beings and their relationship with one another.

From the beginning, when he was drafted in April 2012, Martin did not seem to want to be one of the group. He came off as standoffish and shy to the rest of the offensive linemen. He couldn’t look anyone in the eye, which was puzzling for a football player at this level on a team full of grown-ass men. We all asked the same question: Why won’t he be open with us? What’s with the wall being put up? I never really figured it out. He did something I’d never seen before by balking at the idea of paying for a rookie dinner, which is a meal for a position group paid for by rookies. (For example, I paid $9,600 for one my rookie year.) I don’t know if Martin ever ended up paying for one, as I was cut before seeing the outcome. Incognito and Martin (Lynne Sladky/AP) Martin was expected to play left tackle beside Incognito at guard from the start, so Incognito took him under his wing. They were close friends by all apperances. Martin had a tendency to tank when things would get difficult in practice, and Incognito would lift him up. He’d say, there’s always tomorrow. Richie has been more kind to Martin than any other player.

In other situations, when Martin wasn’t showing effort, Richie would give him a lot of crap. He was a leader on the team, and he would get in your face if you were unprepared or playing poorly. The crap he would give Martin was no more than he gave anyone else, including me. Other players said the same things Incognito said to Martin, so you’d need to suspend the whole team if you suspend Incognito.

Which brings me to my first point: I don’t believe Richie Incognito bullied Jonathan Martin. I never saw Martin singled out, excluded from anything, or treated any differently than the rest of us. We’d have dinners and the occasional night out, and everyone was invited. He was never told he can’t be a part of this. It was the exact opposite. But when he came out, he was very standoffish. That’s why the coaches told the leaders, bring him out of his shell. Figure him out a little bit.

That’s where Incognito ran into a problem. Personally, I know when a guy can’t handle razzing. You can tell that some guys just aren’t built for it. Incognito doesn’t have that filter. He was the jokester on the team, and he joked with everybody from players to coaches. That voicemail he sent came from a place of humor, but where he really screwed up was using the N-word. That, I cannot condone, and it’s probably the biggest reason he’s not with the team right now. Odd thing is, I’ve heard Incognito call Martin the same thing to his face in meetings and all Martin did was laugh. Many more worse things were said about others in the room from all different parties. It’s an Animal House. Now Incognito’s being slandered as a racist and a bigot, and unfortunately that’s never going to be wiped clean because of all the wrong he’s done people in his past. But if you really know who Richie is, he’s a really good, kind man and far from a racist.

In my experience, he’s not the kind of person who would extort someone for $15,000. The notion that Martin was forced to pay for a trip he didn’t attend has been misrepresented.

Playing football is a man’s job, and if there’s any weak link, it gets weeded out. It’s the leaders’ job on the team to take care of it.

Every year, as tradition, the offensive line goes on a big Vegas trip. Everything is paid for in advance, from hotels to a private jet to show tickets. Martin originally verbally committed to the trip, then later backed out after everything was booked. Now, if you can’t go because of an emergency then it’s okay, but to say you’re going and then decide you don’t want to spend the money later? Everything was paid for, and then when it was time to pay up he didn’t want to go anymore. You don’t do that to your brothers. The veterans who paid for it, including Incognito and others, asked for Martin’s share, and he gave it to them. End of story.

The silliest part of this story, to me, is the incident at the cafeteria, in which Martin was supposed to have been hazed when everyone got up from their seats as he sat down. Whoever leaked that story failed to share that getting up from a packed lunch table when one lineman sits down is a running gag that has been around for years. It happened to me more than once, and it happened to Martin because guys on the team say he was overcoming an illness. Just like when a guy is hurt, the joke is, I don’t want to sit with you, you’ve got the bug. Perhaps for Martin it was the straw that broke the camel’s back, but when Incognito reached him after he stormed out, Martin told him the departure had nothing to do with Incognito. Martin said it was something else. Then the media onslaught began.

Incognito was made a scapegoat for the hell coming down on the Dolphins organization, which in turn said it knew nothing about any so-called hazing. That’s the most outlandish lie of this whole thing. The coaches know everything. The coaches know who’s getting picked on and in many cases call for that player to be singled out. Any type of denial on that side is ridiculous. I have friends on more than a dozen teams, and it’s the same everywhere. What people want to call bullying is something that is never going away from football. This is a game of high testosterone, with men hammering their bodies on a daily basis. You are taught to be an aggressive person, and you typically do not make it to the NFL if you are a passive person. There are a few, but it’s very hard. Playing football is a man’s job, and if there’s any weak link, it gets weeded out. It’s the leaders’ job on the team to take care of it. Quarterback Ryan Tannehill (17) said Wednesday that he was surprised by the bullying allegations, a sentiment shared by ex-Dolphin Lydon Murtha, seen here in a 2012 preseason game. (Charles Trainor Jr./Getty Images) The most unfortunate thing about this situation is the consequence it will have on the careers of both men. Richie’s marked himself now as a racist and a bigot, and unfortunately that could be the end of it. Martin is on the opposite end of the spectrum, but no more likely than Incognito to return to the NFL if he wants. In going to the media with his problem, Martin broke the code, and it shows that he’s not there for his teammates and he’s not standing up for himself. There might be a team that gives him a chance because he’s a good person, but the players will reject him. They’ll think, If I say one thing he’s going to the press. He’ll never earn the respect of teammates and personnel in the NFL because he didn’t take care of business the right way.

What fans should understand is that every day in the NFL there are battles between players worse than what’s being portrayed. This racial slur would be a blip on the radar if everything that happens in the locker room went public. But all over the league, problems are hashed out in house. Either you talk about it or you get physical. But at the end of the day, you handle it indoors.

If you ever need to see a more clear demonstration on 'Political Correctness' and it's unintended consequences, you cannot get it any plainer then this!

I am sure some of this goes on (the meals, rookie stuff) to some degree, but it is BS.

Why is it BS? Rookie hazing has gone on since the beginning of time. Rookies pay their dues and as long as it doesn't cross the line, what's the big deal?

You're right hazing has gone on forever, and to a certain extent always will. Some of the stuff, as Gannon said, is harmless. Carrying pads and haircuts are pretty harmless too. I don't know how "demoralizing" a stupid haircut is for a grown man.

But the ATM/dinner stuff I think is where you sort of have to draw the line. We're talking thousands of $$, not just a few hundred here or there. I mean they were gonna whack a guy for that type of stuff in The Sopranos.

The big question is where the NFL comes down in this. Goodell has been known to be very heavy-handed when it comes to bad publicity and making examples out of teams. Thankfully Tags slapped him down on the Bounty thing, but it'll be interesting to see if Goodell over reaches this time to "protect the shield".

But the ATM/dinner stuff I think is where you sort of have to draw the line. We're talking thousands of $$, not just a few hundred here or there. I mean they were gonna whack a guy for that type of stuff in The Sopranos..

someone needs to catch up on thier Soprano's

The code of Omerta has been shown time and time again: the young guys hoping to get 'made' absolutely are expected to pay for the Don and his upper henchman's dinner...It was in at least two episodes, if I recall, and Tony basically was like 'do it, or GTFO'. ..

I wonder what our dear departed friend from the Fatherland would have comented on this? Once, I commented on some Eastern Philosophy, and was told ' there is no place for that in this sport'.

It was 'man stuff'!

And while Jon Stewart is sooo talented and funny, it's stuff like this ( I believe ) that turns off grown men.. At least those are sports fans..Really? BULLYING?The guy is a grown ass man! All the guys are saying ( and everyone else, including Alge and guys who have actually strapped on the pads ) that if someone crosses 'the line' your expected to end it. Fact is we have now got a point where it is 'better' to go and cry to somebody, instead of nutting up. Because somone else can make $$ on it.

Look, anytime you get 53 men together, without a female, whether they are 3 years old or 43, they are naturally going to be dicks. Subsequently, get 20 women together and tell them to accomplish a very difficult task...Okay? My old lady runs a successfull corporation with 13 chicks, but until they got that ONE guy in there ( who I suspect is really gay, he is very effeminate, and is a born again-type ) it was chaos. CHAOS!!! These are things only being around 47 years and rubber meets road can 'teach' you. Hoss 'sense.

Now, even if you question the 'manhood' of Jonathan Martin, be it player or fan....you immediately have become a 'hater', or worse yet, 'an enabler of bullies'. The wrongest yard...

For F*cks Sake!

15k is alot of $$. But, for someone who wants to make 3 million, not so much. I htink this guy got league minimum? From what I've gleaned, everyone signed off, payed and this guy balked at the last minute. 15k for a young guy making 400k plus, is what we call 'an investment'. Obviously, Mr Martin though it not worth his time..

And I will touch the 'third rail'. The aggressor was a douchebag white guy, and the 'victim' was another black guy named 'Martin'.....in good ole' Florida.

WTF, Fla?

Honestly, answer me this. What if was not 'Dicky Disguise' but some other African-American doing the 'hazing'? Think that changes things? Maaaybe the media doesn't jump all over it? Or , it does not 'lead' sportstalk right now? I dont know, but I am not too afraid to ask...

If most the guys in the league AND his own locker room are pretty much calling him out...Does tha not tell you something?

This is where we have 'progressed' to. We are feeling sorry for a huge man who was too much of a pu$$y to stand up for himself. Hurts. My. Heart.

jeebus.

Maybe if this guy played in the SEC instead of 'out there', he would have learned to :

I believe that everybody should have the right to go to work in a non-hostile environment. And clearly for Martin, he believes that his work environment in Miami was hostile. How hostile? That remains to be seen. Perhaps we'll discover what he has been revealed so far is just the tip of the iceberg, so I'll reserve judgment. At least from my perspective, the slurs, threats of violence, sexual overtures to family members is stuff that can roll of your back.

The money thing I think is a much bigger issue. From the lowliest practice squad player to the highest reaches of NFL salaries, every NFL player is rich enough that he's in the top 1-2% of all American citizens in terms of earning power. So the idea that those guys at the bottom of the structure/pay scale have to pay for the older veterans IMO is probably the most pointless and unnecessary aspect of the "culture." Being called names or slurs really only affects yourself. Having to drop a few thousand on dinners or vacations potentially affects your family.

It seems that Martin wants to be an "agent of change" to make the Dolphins, and potentially the rest of the NFL's locker room a less hostile environment. Whether doing what he's doing (walking away from the team and launching an NFL investigation) or simply "knuckling up" is the best method to accomplish that goal, I'll leave for others to judge.

But I think this is a miscalculation on his part in whether or not he's going to actually benefit from that change. He's going to be branded and blacklisted from the NFL over this as one of those "locker room lawyers" that teams tend to avoid (see Lloyd, Brandon), and unlike other players, he's simply not a very good football player.

Obviously we'll see how this plays out but as it stands right now, I would predict that Richie Incognito plays in more NFL games moving forward than Martin does.

These, "jock games," happen through college and high school... How in the world did Martin not expect this?

I certainly understand Martin not liking it. But again, he had to expect it at some level. Perhaps it's a bit worse than he expected, but it doesn't appear to be anything more than what I've heard about in the past.

Cornerback Brent Grimes said merely that he hopes the situation ends soon. “I can’t escape this,” Grimes said. “I was trying to watch Comedy Central last night and they had something on this sh-t.”from PFT

Cornerback Brent Grimes said merely that he hopes the situation ends soon. “I can’t escape this,” Grimes said. “I was trying to watch Comedy Central last night and they had something on this sh-t.”from PFT

Cornerback Brent Grimes said merely that he hopes the situation ends soon. “I can’t escape this,” Grimes said. “I was trying to watch Comedy Central last night and they had something on this sh-t.”from PFT

These, "jock games," happen through college and high school... How in the world did Martin not expect this?

I certainly understand Martin not liking it. But again, he had to expect it at some level. Perhaps it's a bit worse than he expected, but it doesn't appear to be anything more than what I've heard about in the past.

okay, what makes more sense here...

here is a guy who has played football at the college level, and was drafted by a pro team. The douchebag in question who is now considered to be a 'bully', according to most everyone on the team, was one of the *cough cough* victims best friends. Hell, maybe his only friend? The 'victim' walked out of the teams facilities after a lunchroom prank. The guy saved ALL the incriminated emails, voicemails and probably a light blue dress with presidential goo on it. But, he wants to be an 'agent of change', so rather then address ths situation directly, he waits until he cannot take it 'anymore' and storms out.

or....

the guy already comes from a mindset of 'victimhood'. when he realizes HE is the only one on the team that refused to pay his share of the traditional Vegas Trip, which has been going on for years, and which NO OTHER PLAYER has EVER had a problem paying for, and is beginning to be ostracized..he starts to sulk. He begins to struggle, appear soft, so the coach goes to the 'taskmaster' on the OL and says 'lean on this guy, toughen him up a bit..'. But the guy he chose for the job is a nutjob, and generally a mean m'fer (you know, the kind we used to have ), and he takes it 'too far'.

At this point, Janey Martin has a couple options.

A: directly tell everyone who is 'bullying him' ( ) to knock it off, or he will give them the 'Hebert/Jeff George' solution ( lets go outside and work this out)

B: go whine to the coaches about it, which from what I can tell, he did in April, and was too stupid to realize the dictate was actually coming from them....or figured it out too late...

or..

C: he knows he is too cowardly to go with option A, option B didn't pan out, so he asks for advice from his parents. You know the two people who went to...wait for it....

Harvard Law.

And what do you think thier advice would be? " Save every incriminating thing you have, like Monica Lewinsky..After you storm out, you will be blackballed, but at that point, we can hire a well known attorney (http://www.gordonrees.com/lawyers/lawye ... =dcornwell) and sue thier pants off, you precious snowflake, you.."

I think you hit the nail on the head fun gus. The fact that his parents are reportedly big-time lawyers out in their neck of the woods in Cali is probably the biggest single factor in this.

The "avenue for change" that Martin seemingly has chosen is exactly what you would expect from someone who was raised by lawyers.

Ultimately, I think there's going to be a lawsuit, because I think Martin will get blackballed from the league. There's $1.8 million left to be paid on the last 2 years of his contract. So a cool $5 or $10 million oughta do it.

I think you hit the nail on the head fun gus. The fact that his parents are reportedly big-time lawyers out in their neck of the woods in Cali is probably the biggest single factor in this.

The "avenue for change" that Martin seemingly has chosen is exactly what you would expect from someone who was raised by lawyers.

Ultimately, I think there's going to be a lawsuit, because I think Martin will get blackballed from the league. There's $1.8 million left to be paid on the last 2 years of his contract. So a cool $5 or $10 million oughta do it.

Doubtful. If that was his plan, he would have pulled the plug long ago. It really isn't what a lawyer would counsel. He seems to have some talent. The real money is made on the second contract, not the first. To try and use this to get leverage for a payout would severely limit the damages. Not knowing the specifics of Florida law, but it is incredibly doubtful that he could seek damages based upon lost opportunity for the second contract as that is too speculative.

To base a potential action on retaliation not knowing what would happen is something that even a 1L would not counsel, let alone 2 Harvard Law Grads and a Stanford grad player.

So. bottom line, it is incredibly doubtful that this was the purpose.

A less fanciful motive would be seeking a release/early free agency without having to payback the signing bonus.

The most probable motive is that he has some pre-existing behavioral health issues that were preyed upon by a unstable asshole.

W

_________________Fantasy League Champion 2010Pick Em Co-Champion 2011

We are building a fighting force of extraordinary magnitude. We forge our tradition in the spirit of our ancestors. You have our gratitude.

Doubtful. If that was his plan, he would have pulled the plug long ago. It really isn't what a lawyer would counsel. He seems to have some talent. The real money is made on the second contract, not the first. To try and use this to get leverage for a payout would severely limit the damages. Not knowing the specifics of Florida law, but it is incredibly doubtful that he could seek damages based upon lost opportunity for the second contract as that is too speculative.

To base a potential action on retaliation not knowing what would happen is something that even a 1L would not counsel, let alone 2 Harvard Law Grads and a Stanford grad player.

So. bottom line, it is incredibly doubtful that this was the purpose.

A less fanciful motive would be seeking a release/early free agency without having to payback the signing bonus.

The most probable motive is that he has some pre-existing behavioral health issues that were preyed upon by a unstable asshole.

W

I cannot wait to see this go down as another 'Octomom will be out of the news in a week' prediction from the forums favorite lawyer.

First, the guy didn't have 'some talent', he sucked...He may never have gotten a 'second contract', and I suspect he knows it.

Second, why if he this was just some pre-existing health issue, why did he Lewinsky all this evidence? To get out of paying back his signing bonus? Maybe, but doubtful at best.

And third, look at who the parents were, and who they chose for counsel....

I guess we will see, but there is common law and common sense. I'm thinking my scenario is more likely.

The next step in the pussyfication of the NFL. Can't pick on rookies, it might hurt their feelings.

Yeah, because extortion and assault is so cool in a multimillion dollar organization.

The old good "enough for me, good enough for them" was the excuse I heard from child and spouse abusers in my court. That did not go over well.

The "pussification" as you call it is trying to make the players not into brain damaged suicidal 50 year olds who can't remember why they are in the room they just walked into. But since as long as you get your jollies, let them make each out into semi functional vegetables with traumatic brain damage, is that it?

Bread and circuses.

_________________Fantasy League Champion 2010Pick Em Co-Champion 2011

We are building a fighting force of extraordinary magnitude. We forge our tradition in the spirit of our ancestors. You have our gratitude.

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