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Create an ignore list. I know it may seem unneighborly. But you're here to talk about the Pacers, not argue with someone who's just looking for an argument. Most of the regular users on here make use (at least occasionally) of the "Ignore" feature. Just go to "Settings" -> "Edit Ignore List" and add the names.

Re: Without merely citing statistics...

I cannot believe you guys are actually biting on this troll bait. Let the thread die, friends.

Just because I think Granger is misused/misunderstood/overrated, I'm automatically a troll.

I feel the same way about plenty of other players. I could make the same exact claim about Amar'e Stoudamire, would that make me a troll? I don't think Danilo Gallinari is even remotely as good as most people claim. Am I entitled to that opinion?

Re: Without merely citing statistics...

Just because I think Granger is misused/misunderstood/overrated, I'm automatically a troll.

I feel the same way about plenty of other players. I could make the same exact claim about Amar'e Stoudamire, would that make me a troll? I don't think Danilo Gallinari is even remotely as good as most people claim. Am I entitled to that opinion?

If you can't see the flaw in your argument then i'm sorry you are either very bad at evaluating talent, or trolling. Don't mistake the oddness of having to qualify something so self evident, as a lack of evidence that spits in the face of your post. Simply put, if you can't see, even based on observation, why Granger is better than the players that you listed then you simply know nothing about basketball. Since I assume that everyone here knows something about basketball, hence posting on a basketball forum, the more parsimonious explanation is that you're a troll.

If you are simply ignorant, then I apologize, but for now i'll stick with the troll explanation.

But Anthem is right, I shouldn't have even replied, don't feed the troll any longer.

Re: Without merely citing statistics...

If you can't see the flaw in your argument then i'm sorry you are either very bad at evaluating talent, or trolling. Don't mistake the oddness of having to qualify something so self evident, as a lack of evidence that spits in the face of your post. Simply put, if you can't see, even based on observation, why Granger is better than the players that you listed then you simply know nothing about basketball. Since I assume that everyone here knows something about basketball, hence posting on a basketball forum, the more parsimonious explanation is that you're a troll.

If you are simply ignorant, then I apologize, but for now i'll stick with the troll explanation.

But Anthem is right, I shouldn't have even replied, don't feed the troll any longer.

Christ! You guys act like it's literally incomprehensible for a player's stats to be inflated, and for him to be misused by his team. For the 100th time, I didn't make this thread to bash Danny. For that matter, I don't think Anthony Morrow or James Jones are horrible basketball players.

Anthony Morrow has logged over 40 minutes 30 times in his NBA career. How many points do you think he's averaging in those games?..... 20.8!

If you put him on the Bobcats, give them an up tempo coach, give him 35-40 minutes per game, and make him the focal point of the offense, he averages close to 25 a game, no question! Does that mean that would be the right move for the Bobcats franchise, hell no!

Re: Without merely citing statistics...

You're entitled to whatever opinion you want. I don't want the admins to close the thread. But it's clear that you're trying to push buttons more than have a discussion, so why should people come read the thread just to get their buttons pushed?

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Create an ignore list. I know it may seem unneighborly. But you're here to talk about the Pacers, not argue with someone who's just looking for an argument. Most of the regular users on here make use (at least occasionally) of the "Ignore" feature. Just go to "Settings" -> "Edit Ignore List" and add the names.

Re: Without merely citing statistics...

I figured it out! He's not a troll, and he doesn't think poorly of Granger. He simply grossly and negligently overvalues James Jones, Anthony Morrow, and Reggie Williams. That's the only reasoning left that doesn't involve him being blind or a troll. Case closed!

Re: Without merely citing statistics...

Christ! You guys act like it's literally incomprehensible for a player's stats to be inflated, and for him to be misused by his team. For the 100th time, I didn't make this thread to bash Danny. For that matter, I don't think Anthony Morrow or James Jones are horrible basketball players.

Anthony Morrow has logged over 40 minutes 30 times in his NBA career. How many points do you think he's averaging in those games?..... 20.8!

If you put him on the Bobcats, give them an up tempo coach, give him 35-40 minutes per game, and make him the focal point of the offense, he averages close to 25 a game, no question! Does that mean that would be the right move for the Bobcats franchise, hell no!

I just don't understand what you can't see. You think the game is all about a ppg statistic. It isn't. There has been countless guys that put up 20 points a game that were on dead end teams that never even sniffed the playoffs. Danny does things that these guys don't do. Some things aren't always as cut and dry with the labels people put on players.

Danny is a top 20 player. Is he a top 5 player? No. He brings more to the game than scoring. You also don't consider that these players taking Danny's role on the 2008 team would have teams scouting for them to specifically stop them. If you stopped Danny in 2008, you won. I don't think any of the players you named have ever been the center of attention for the defensive game plan of the opposing team.

But not all top 20 players are capable of competing for a championship. They just don't fit right. The NBA is like a puzzle, it's more about bringing the right pieces together. Sure a legit top 5 talent seems like a sure championship in the NBA of old, but I can only hope the future will be different. That team basketball will have a resurgence and teams will win like the Pistons team did, and like we came oh so close to doing a couple of times in the Reggie years. Winning with a balanced team that has no stars, but stars aren't needed because the overall team is that good hypothetically.

I think Danny just fits here. If he is off offensively, he seems to be on defensively. But Danny is also much more consistent than these players. You point to a hypothetical that this guy hit 13 points on 10 shots, but maybe someone else was creating for him. Maybe if he took 20 shots and scored 25 a night, then the opposing team would game plan to stop him and he can't do that consistently. Or maybe their team is that bad that the other team will just let the guy get his and destroy them at the rest of the positions. I see it all the time.

I seriously doubt any of the players you mentioned will ever match Danny's best ppg year. But that's proof a guy getting 25 a night doesn't guarantee winning. We sucked in 2008. It was hard to watch at times. I told myself I was going to give up on the Pacers if the didn't fire O'Brien a million times.

Danny is having his worst year offensively, and we are winning. The team comes first before individual success. Danny will still average at least 18 for many years to come I believe, but all that means is we have a better team around him and the true results will be in the win/loss record. If you substitute Danny for the guys you named, we would lose probably 10 more games then we would with him this year. That is the difference between being a top 5 team, and missing the playoffs. Maybe we could win without Danny because we are looking really deep, but it is a lot easier with him.