'For it may be asked, if God , as it appears, has chosen to employ inferior organisms as a generative medium for the production of higher ones, even including ourselves, what right have we his humble creatures to find fault?'So wrote Robert Chambers in 1844 in his speculative book vestiges.He knew the consequences of putting his name to the book and was not known to be the author until years later.It was hugely popular even queen Victoria had Albert read it to her and the magnets of the age Gladstone and Disralli were silenced among its pages.Sadly the forces of authodoxy were strong to silence free speach as they are today.

magnocrat wrote:'For it may be asked, if God , as it appears, has chosen to employ inferior organisms as a generative medium for the production of higher ones, even including ourselves, what right have we his humble creatures to find fault?'

You are right in the strictest terms but I'm taking the term creationist to mean anybody who does not believe in natural creation. So a big-bang Christian like the Pope is a creationist.However the interesting point is how this shows there is always an unwilling resistant force to new ways of looking at the world. Some may call it conservatism. It will always be with us for it is in line with the phrase ' the good old days' , to which I reply the better new days.

magnocrat wrote:You are right in the strictest terms but I'm taking the term creationist to mean anybody who does not believe in natural creation. So a big-bang Christian like the Pope is a creationist.However the interesting point is how this shows there is always an unwilling resistant force to new ways of looking at the world. Some may call it conservatism. It will always be with us for it is in line with the phrase ' the good old days' , to which I reply the better new days.

Are you momunemtally stupid or something? A creationist is someone you rejects evolutionary biology in favour of a literal interpretation of the Bible, the Torah or the Koran. It has nothing whatsoever to do with relativity theory. There are Christians in this group who accept evolutionary biology but believe that the universe was created by God. They are staunchly anti-creationist.

magnocrat wrote:'For it may be asked, if God , as it appears, has chosen to employ inferior organisms as a generative medium for the production of higher ones, even including ourselves, what right have we his humble creatures to find fault?'So wrote Robert Chambers in 1844 in his speculative book vestiges.He knew the consequences of putting his name to the book and was not known to be the author until years later.It was hugely popular even queen Victoria had Albert read it to her and the magnets of the age Gladstone and Disralli were silenced among its pages.Sadly the forces of authodoxy were strong to silence free speach as they are today.

There is very little in the Western world that "silences free speach". In some countries there are hate speech laws and pretty well everywhere libel and slander laws, but that is about it. Everyone is basically free to hold and talk about whatever they believe in or feel comfortable with or disagree with.

I agree but the western world is only part of the world and there are forces at work that would willingly destroy the western way of life. One such force nearly suceeded in the last great war and it arose to power in the western world. Some claim we can fight by tolerance I fear we will need troops on the ground. Others suggest we can reason with our opponents and show them a superior way, after all are not all humans reasonable beings? Robert Hare worked for years with criminals and he believes 1% of the American population are psycopaths!