Saturday, July 10, 2010

I know, it's shocking. YouTube apologists lie. A lot. The one calling himself Shockofgod has been getting a lot of attention lately, because he claims that he called The Atheist Experience and that his question "terrified" the hosts. Here, take a look:

What's immediately obvious to anyone who's ever watched or listened to an episode of The Atheist Experience is that this isn't us. Of course, that doesn't stop Shockofgod, whose real name is Rich Allen, by the way. Rich, who is known for his YouTube videos in which he mounts a camera to his helmet and rides his motorcycle in traffic while spouting bad apologetics, truly knows no shame. He not only posted the clip above, he posted the following on Yahoo! Answers:

Note the answer he chose as the best answer, and the fact that he totally misrepresented what Michael was saying to him. He dismisses all the other gods, because no one has presented sufficient evidence to support their existence. Likewise, we dismiss his god for the same reason.

Now, you could argue that maybe Rich is just so dumb that he didn't realize what Michael was saying. I'd think that too if he hadn't chosen this answer after I posted the following response to him:

So now that Rich has so thoughtfully provided written evidence of his dishonesty, feel free to call him on it whenever you can. Of course, you can't do that on the video above. He's disabled comments. So now which one of us is terrified again?

I guess we could all hope that he really does call the show tomorrow, but I won't be holding my breath.

I'm very skeptical of theists who claim they used to be atheists. Obviously when they say something completely stupid like a "humanist religion of atheism." I think that implies apathy/ignorance before they were "saved" Shock recently said, upon hearing of Hitch having cancer "I hope he starts to consider his afterlife" - what an asshat!

That...was so hard to listen to. Argh. Kudos to the folks he actually called, but that guy's skull has got to be bulletproof it's so damn thick. He needs to call the real Atheist Experience, and muted after he asks his question to save our sanity. Hopefully it can reach a cell or two of his pea brain that he's got the burden of proof, not us. SHEESH.

That was hilarious, but I can't stand the guy. He's condescending and he knows it. He's lying and he knows it. He's annoying and he knows it. I think he just wanted to make atheists angry to use it as proof that atheists are angry at god (which is not the case, but theists seem to have a hard time understanding reality, emotions and the subtleties in a conversation). Of course, believers are used to claiming non-proven things as true, such as atheists are angry, and using these as proof for their god. That's all they can do, it's not like they can actually prove that a flood occurred or that a guy named Jesus walked on water for example.

You guys should mention this on the show on Sunday. Then Ffreethinker, or whoever else, can post the video clip as a response to the liar's clip. It would be good for YouTube viewers to be able to compare the 2 shows, see that they are not the same, and realise that somebody is clearly lying.

That moron subscribed to me (I only had 1 video until now, but I took that down looong ago) and added me as a friend... I have no idea why he did it, but I told him I'm an atheist. His reply was just a lame video. Now I wrote him a message to encourage him to call you guys. But I'm absolutely sure he won't (don't worry dugSciof :)I've got another stupid story, luckily it doesn't have to do with Mr. "Shock". I was at a baptist sermon today (yeah... :), and the guy was talking about how food has become an idol that is "endangering our spiritual lives". We like good tastes, foods, and we derive from them - PLEASURE! Horrible, horrible world... (I had enough self-control not to laugh or anything...)And one more: do you know http://philosophersnet.com/ ? I usually enjoy their posts, but the last two were strange... One is entitled "Surprise, surprise, New Atheists go all medieval" and commenting is disabled... Quite disappointing, reminded me of "Shock" and his friends. To the last one, "Meditation 101 Religious and Scientific Faith" I tried to write a comment, but could someone write a much better reply to them (I'm pointing towards the AE team :)? They compared religious faith, and something what we could call scientific faith... I know that there are things that have to accepted in science etc., but I still think that the post was unfair. Science and religion can't even be mentioned in the same zip code...

Yes, heard the audio at happy hour. Kept saying "these guys need a hold button." We have one, and I'd be unapologetic using it on this idiot. He kept asking nonsensical questions, and wouldn't stop for a second to hear what the hosts were explaining. Does anyone know which atheist radio program this was by the way? I couldn't place it.

So the question was provide proof and evidence of atheism, without defining atheism, without explaining the concept of proven claims vs belief, without asking a rhetorical question, without challenging the premise of the question and without being able to finish a sentence. The option then is to relinquish atheism and start worshipping the flying vegan spaghetti and tofu balls misunderstood creature. The theists have won!

I liked how the hosts actually did prove atheism:Atheism is lack of belief in a god or gods.I lack belief in a god or gods.Therefore atheism exists.Q.E.D.

Having said that, they were unreasonably tolerant of this nitwit's bullshit. The guy doesn't get to make up the rules; he has the burden of proof, period. That he doesn't know (or pretends not to know) what atheism is merits an explanation (with him on hold, preferably), but willful ignorance after that point is inexcusable.

Shock's culpability is obvious - allowing only one sentence before declaring victory, insulting the people he was talking to, lying ("use any definition you want" turns into "I never asked you to define it"), repeating himself incessantly, etc.

Where the hosts went wrong, IMO, is that they started by interpreting his question as "what is the proof that you are an atheist?", and that obviously wasn't what he was asking for.

Unfortunately, he was such a pompous prick that he declared victory instead of attempting to clarify.

Once upon a time there was a boy named Richie. Richie believed in Santa.

Richie talked to other boys and girls about Santa. Other kids (the ones who didn't laugh) wrinkled their foreheads, turned down the corners of their mouths, and said, "Oh Richie, you probably still believe in the Tooth Fairy."

How strange! Again and again, when Richie talked about Santa, he heard the reply, "Oh Richie, you probably still believe in the Tooth Fairy."

Richie didn't understand. Why'd they keep changing the subject to something that had nothing to do with Santa? Why were they so fixated on the Tooth Fairy?

As he thought hard about their wrinkled, frowny looks, Richie had an idea: The other kids were sad the Tooth Fairy wasn't real! It was like a mental disease. Richie decided to call it "Tooth Fairy Syndrome".

The next day, Richie talked to a girl about Santa, and like many other kids before, she wrinkled her forehead, turned down the corners of her mouth, and said "Oh Richie, you probably still believe in the Tooth Fairy."

This guy reminds me Steve Sanchez, the crazy stonethepreacher guy. They aren't the least bit interested in other points of view, they just ask ridiculous questions and interrupt you when you answer so you seem flustered and confused when you are really just trying to find restraint to keep you from looking him up, going to his house and doing a good ol' fashioned "Life of Brian" stoning because he said "God".

Good call on whether this prat was ever an atheist. How could he have been, when his stated reason for leaving atheism requires the belief that theism is the default position?

A lesson to learn here: whenever a theist wants to propose a question but starts making requirements as to how you'll answer his question before he even states it, you're probably dealing with someone who's deeply dishonest.

Shocky clearly will never call TAE. You guys can actually shut him up against his will - something he cannot tolerate. He has no interest in debating atheists, merely speaking over them and mocking them when they can't reply.

It is worth pointing out to people that don't know of Shockofgod that he has been told on numerous occasions what the definition of atheism is. This is speaking as someone who hardly uses youtube, and even I can say that with certainty!

I would have thought that any atheist confronted by his claims would need just ten seconds of hearing what he has to say to know that he's an ignoramus, so he's just playing for the theistic market that wouldn't bother checking as to whether he actually did the things he claimed.

(Of course, ironically, that clip just shows off his lack of knowledge and debating skills even though it is nothing to do with TAE. He's claiming he won an argument with one group of people, and as evidence a clip showing he failed miserably with another group of people.)

Little would be achieved by him calling in to TAE imo - other than allowing clips on youtube that show him to be a liar - you won't get anywhere with him, and his claims are so facile as to be rather boring for a general audience.

@Robin LionheartThat was a REAL atheist show? I thought this was some parody of what fundies perceive as postmodernism in the atheist movement. He asks "prove atheism is true", and they respond by saying "I don't believe in a God".

I don't want to be cruel to fellow atheists, but this sounded as if a group of apologists listened to the atheist experience, and then performed a distorted reenactment, based on how they remembered the episode.

Granted, if it had actually been faked, it would have ended with skullcrusher, (or whatever cheesy D&D nickname this jag-off chose), reading a Bible verse while the atheists listen in awe, but the atheist position was not done justice in that clip.

Some people don't like the fact that Matt is so quick to put someone on hold when they start blabbering, but I kept waiting for the hosts of this show to do that with shlockofgod (as Jen so aptly put it). It definitely pays to have that hold or mute button handy, so some asinine theist doesn't attempt to take over the show with broken record nonsense about "proof" of atheism.

This guy is a nimrod, I've watched a few of his Santa Syndrome videos where he calls out The Atheist Experience and I've heard some clips of people calling into his show and him calling into other shows. I do have to point out though that I am about 99% sure he actually did call the Atheist Experience, just not in the clip that Jen provided. If you watch the Google video of episode #579 of TAE which was broadcast on Nov. 16, 2008 and go to the 28:00 mark the caller that Matt and Tracie talk to is "Alan", which I think is Shock, but I'll let anyone who wants to check it out decide for themselves. If Shock denies he is the caller Alan I would say it is because he is thoroughly flustered and gets owned, then hangs up while Matt is finishing his explanation why Lee Strobel's arguments don't hold up. Please feel free to make fun of my geeked-out fanboy ability to know exacty where to find this info after first reading the post, I can take it. Just an FYI from a fan.

This reminds me of that clip of Richard Dawkins sitting around on the set of one of his documentaries looking around and thinking before he starts talking. Someone (there are a few versions of this now) edited in a voice asking some stupid question challenging evolution at the beginning, so it looks like he's totally silent and unable to answer it for several minutes and then starts talking about something totally different. "Hah, even Richard Dawkins doesn't have a reply for this one!"

Any video that doesn't actually show all the important speakers? Take it with a grain of salt kiddos!

quite clearly an unjust question to even ask, as an atheist is simply an ajective reflecting our beliefs as such as saying to him that religious describes him, and also many other religion following person!

Thomas:That was a REAL atheist show? I thought this was some parody of what fundies perceive as postmodernism in the atheist movement. He asks "prove atheism is true", and they respond by saying "I don't believe in a God".

Thus, proving atheism. I don't see the problem. Atheism = Lack of belief in gods -> He said he doesn't believe in gods -> Therefore, Atheism exists. :P

Strictly speaking, that's all "proving atheism" would be in my opinion. It certainly wouldn't be "proving there are no gods." As Mr. Dillahunty has said several times, atheism isn't an -"ism." It makes no claims of its own but rather, doesn't accept theistic ones.

As for whether it was a real atheist show or a straw-man re-enactment, I can't say. I'm not about to let my brain rot listening to some pathetic, a-hole apologist.

I hope the hosts of the Atheists of Florida show have learned to use the hold or mute buttons. This must have been the first time they dealt with such an obnoxious jerk since it took several minutes for them to consider muting his audio. The worst thing was that they never had a chance to double back and clarify the distinction between atheism and humanism. Rich was obviously looking to score cheap points with bully tactics, so I'm sure he would have looked like an idiot if he had actually allowed an actual conversation to take place.

I would like to say that I am shocked by this, but of course I'm not. These wingnuts are all so intellectually crippled that this seemed like a good idea. You would think it would occur to him that posting it on YouTube was basically guaranteeing he would be caught in his lie.

I just watched on his videos of him on his lovable, cuddly bike on the interstate (I10) and I recognized all of it! I can't believe this douche lives so close to me, i feel like going to churches in his neighborhood and finding him and humiliating him in front of his friends.

Yeah shock is an idiot, i've tried to post on his videos, giving counter arguments to whatever BS he happens to be talking about, but so far he has not approved any of them. the world needs morons like him, i mean who else are we going to laugh at when its a slow week for comedy on tv or at the local club:p

Have you seen that there is a channel called Shockofshite, where Shocky's videos can be rated and commented? Even if Shocky himself will remain a moron, maybe it'll make him understand that he's not that right and supported...

I think Shockofgod has edited the video - adding a text box that, if clicked, takes you to a different video. Perhaps he hopes that when we see a different video than the one that is discussed on the blog, we will be confused???

I got a YouTube friend request from SoG. I guessed it was because I subscribe to a lot of skeptic/atheist channels (Thunderfoot, AronRa, etc). But it was shortly after that, that he sent me a video about some weird view of atheism. It included how the Atheist Experience TV show won't have him on, because their afraid of him. When I tried to engage him in a discussion, he kept replying back with the same video link. He eventually stopped.

I'd like to see him on the show. But I'm sure he won't call in. I think he knows he would get abused.

I was watching a video about him and decided to click on a related video that I thought looked stupid. In the description box it said, "Feel free to leave any comments as I respect the freedom of speech."

Seeing that it was the case, I corrected his/her accusation that all atheists deny all gods' existences and that the burden of proof lies on them because of their claims. This person replied to my comments giving the same spiel as before without even addressing what I said. I then noticed that my comment was deleted and only showed this person's "rebuttal." I responded again only to find out I was blocked by the user.

What I wonder is how all of these creationist/Christians can be so disingenuous and not think that something may wrong about what they believe if they are so scared about what the opposition has to say. I try to give even fundies respect, but it gets harder every day.

I don't think the hosts were in on it. The fact is, notwithstanding Rich very childishly and annoyingly shouting them down, they actually handed him his ass, on what was a very unfairly posited question in the first place!This gutless, dishonest little creep, is actually a subscriber of mine on YouTube...I can't begin to guess what his motives are - He hasn't even tried to engage me in any dialogue, and blocks any attempt to engage him!He's a strange little guy.

Incidently,I believe he was a suggested venue and arbitrator for a planned but aborted debate on creationism, between two other YouTubers : - NephilimFree and DonExodus.I can guess how that would have turned out!!

Wow...just wow. If that really WERE Matt, he would have DESTROYED this dude. He would have been muted after about a minute while it was explained to him in detail why his question is silly (like it has been time and time again).

Seriously, this is the kinda stuff that -I- can pile-drive people on, and I'm not that great at arguing with people.

I have just posted on said video from Shockofgod, and it is currently "Pending Approval", which will most likely mean that it shall be deleted to make all his comments come only from the perspective of Christians, making it a bias forum, and no place for discussion. This shows his cowardice that he needs to hide behind and moderate comments that do not meet his "standards". I have also just realised that he has disabled ratings...

actually, i believe his full name is richard allen garcia. i know this because he posted a video on youtube a while back of some news story he was interviewed in, and they mentioned his name. aside from his rich allen account on yahoo answers, garcia has also registered a number of other aliases where he claims to be an atheist, only promote his lame blogtalk radio show. so far, i've found three other accounts that he's using - antitheist, atheist3455, and atheist s12. you really have to wonder about the intelligence level of someone who would actually think these accounts would fool anyone into believing they are not registered to garcia, when he all he does is talk about himself in every question and answer he posts.

I just found this message. from "shockofgod" on my home YT profile comment thread. I pretty much posted what's below on HIS channel, but met with "comment approval"

"The fact that the﻿ atheist experience show wont provide proof and evidence that atheism is accurate and correct goes to show that Matt is a coward and that atheism if full of crap. Why won't they provide proof and evidence that atheism is accurate and correct? What's that say about the humanist religion of atheism? It shows its pathetic."

"My response is simple ;-

Why don't you actually contact the REAL "Atheist Experience Show" and pose the question in a lucid form so that it can be answered .

You contacted the WRONG show and claimed it to be the "Atheist Experience".Unless you're a total moron,that's telling lies - Isn't there some commandment in your book about that??"

"My answer to your original question is simpler :-

Atheists can only answer for the accuracy of their own atheism - since it is a disbelief of somebody else's unsupported claim. Mine is definitely accurate and correct - I don't believe in anybody's god - That's a fact!"

When are you guys going to hand this didingenuous turd his neatly folded ass?!!

The above response, which I also left on "shockofgod"'s channel page , as well as my own, met with "approval pending" on his.Needless to say, it didn't make it onto his!

Has it ever occurred to anyone to find a way to point out this dishonesty to sincere Christians, and then ask them why so many Christians find it necessary to validate or defend their beliefs this way?Surely it's a shouted declaration, at the top of their voice, of a flawed and unjustifiable philosophy?

"I'd like some proof and evidence that asking for proof and evidence with regards to the most reasonable position to hold in the absence of proof and evidence isn't a completely nonsensical question."

To which He replied: "agreed, atheism is crapola" before promptly blocking me and enabling comment approval. (Mine was one of the few out of hundreds he even bothered to respond to). Of course this prevented my response to clarify whether He really missed the satire or was just being completely dishonest. Now Hes deleted all existing comments and disallowed further discussion.

Thanks to this post it's now obvious that misrepresenting the position of others is Shock's usual tactic.

I'm pretty sure his last name is actually Garcia. I once searched his website URL and came up with a post/review that he did on Amazon where he promotes his website and it had the "real name" verification under it. The last name was Garcia. But I can't find the post anymore.

I think we do need to be honest with regards to this non-question and say that "No, we CAN'T provide proof and evidence that atheism etc....", cos that would mean we have to disprove god, BUT we must demonstrate why it can't be answered and it must be made clear that before we say we can't provide P&E, he would then have to answer one of 2 questions in return before he can claim any victory:

1. Can he provide proof and evidence that Theism is accurate and correct (which would mean he would have to prove a god exists, after all he is making the positive claim)

or

2. Can he provide proof and evidence that lack of belief in pink flying unicorns, fairies etc is accurate and correct.

If he can't answer these counter-questions then the Theists vs Non-theists score is 0-0 in this daft battle. No-one wins, and no-one loses. He cannot claim victory by default.

Also I am not really sure what he would class as evidence, this would have to be proof there is no god. So this is a jumped-up disprove god question.

I think that it's ridiculous that this issue has boiled down to these pseudo-philosophical gymnastics and it has come down to a point-scoring excercise over who can come up with the best non-refutable one-liner (well the theists use this tactic anyway).

But at least if we are honest and say we can't answer it in the way that he knows we can't, that is a noble admission. He will no-doubt claim victory anyway, stand on a little podium and award himself a medal, while all his fellow apologists pat him on the back. FINE let him do that, at least he will go away and leave us in peace to address the REAL important issues to promote a separation of church and state, promote REAL science in schools, critical thinking with regards to religious claims and practices and help those atheists who are caught up in religions they don't believe in.

All this is just a waste of valuable time when more pressing matters are at hand.

I had to take SoG to task on the road safety issue. Ironically I posted it on his "Motorcycle rider dies on mean unforgiving freeways of California" video on his YT channel. Here is the comment verbatim:

"Dear SoG, I'm not sure if you add the commentary later but if you ARE commentating whilst riding, DON'T!!! You are not paying 'Due Care & Attention' on the road!!! Studies have shown that talking on cell-phones reduces concentration dramatically!! If you want to risk your life, fine, but DON'T risk others lives too. What if you killed someone on the road while making a video? What does your god say about causing death by dangerous driving and how would he judge you?? THINK ABOUT IT, Common sense"

The comment is still pending approval but whether or not he posts it doesn't matter, as long as he stops talking while riding (he must be going over 80mph). Maybe he adds the commentary later, but I am not so sure. As much as I think he is an annoying idiot, I would HATE to see him or other road-users hurt, injured or worse. BTW his comment on his vid regarding his hopes that the dead rider is christian (he thinks that at least he goes to heaven) is obnoxious, but that was not the point of my comment. Perhaps you can mention this public safety issue at the top of the next show. It is important to everyone.

I just had to take SoG to task with regards to his Road safety. He seems to make commentary on his vids, while driving at speed on his motorcycle, which is very dangerous. I posted the following comment on his YT channel ironically on his "Motorcycle rider dies on mean unforgiving freeways of California" vid. The comment is pending approval but I don't care if he approves it or not, AS LONG as he stops riding AND commentating at the same time. Here is my comment verbatim:

"Dear SoG, I'm not sure if you add the commentary later but if you ARE commentating whilst riding, DON'T!!! You are not paying 'Due Care & Attention' on the road!!! Studies have shown that talking on cell-phones reduces concentration dramatically!! If you want to risk your life, fine, but DON'T risk others lives too. What if you killed someone on the road while making a video? What does your god say about causing death by dangerous driving and how would he judge you?? THINK ABOUT IT, Common sense"

I will ignore his obnoxious reference to the dead rider being a Christian or not, but as much as I think he is an annoying idiot, I would HATE him (or others) to be hurt, injured or worse.

Perhaps you could give a short Public Safety announcement with regards to this at the top of the next AE show 'cos it is important.

A concerned pedestrian.

PS we may get a vid by SoG entitled "Please provide proof and evidence that not paying attention while driving is dangerous, is accurate and correct"!! Haha!!

PLEASE NOTE: The Atheist Experience has moved to a new location, and this blog is now closed to comments. To participate in future discussions, please visit http://www.freethoughtblogs.com/axp.

This blog encourages believers who disagree with us to comment. However, anonymous comments are disallowed to weed out cowardly flamers who hide behind anonymity. Commenters will only be banned when they've demonstrated they're nothing more than trolls whose behavior is intentionally offensive to the blog's readership.

Email policy

All emails sent to the program at the tv[at]atheist-community[dot]org address become the property of the ACA, and the desire for a reply is assumed. Note that this reply could take the form of a public response on the show or here on the blog. In those cases, we will never include the correspondent's address, but will include names unless we deem it inappropriate. If you absolutely do not wish for us to address your email publicly, please include a note to that effect (like "private response only" or "not for publication" or "if you post this on the blog please don't use my name") somewhere in the letter.

Google Analytics script

Subscribe To

AE and Related Sites

PLEASE NOTE: The Atheist Experience has moved to a new location, and this blog is now closed to comments. To participate in future discussions, please visit http://www.freethoughtblogs.com/axp.The Atheist Experience is a weekly live call-in television show sponsored by the Atheist Community of Austin. This independently-run blog (not sponsored by the ACA) features contributions from current and former hosts and co-hosts of the show.