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Re: Can someone please explain the Foundationless hype to me?

Has anyone seen any studies regarding transfer coefficients of these chemicals from wax into honey? That would be interesting!

My conclusion, as usual, is that we don't know as much as we assume that we do.

Such studies have been done. Dr. Maryanne Frazier of Penn State is probably a good person to search for such studies. What I recall from talks at Bee Meetings is that the Pesticides are found in higher concentrations in beeswax than they are in honey, since most pesticides are oil based. Which doesn't mean they don't show up in Honey, just in lower trace amounts.

I don't know as much as I think I do and no where near as much as I wish I did. Not that I am going to work very hard to remedy the deficite.

Re: Can someone please explain the Foundationless hype to me?

Re: Can someone please explain the Foundationless hype to me?

Originally Posted by WLC

So, let's say 5 to 10 ug mixed pesticide per sheet of waxed plastic foundation. We can always estimate how many bees live on a frame, right?

Well, no, I don't think we can estimate how many bees live on a frame. What would be the point. It's the larvae and pupae which are effected by the chemical residue found nin the comb. These chemicals are numerous, not simply one on it's own, but a mixture. That mixture is what Maryanne Frazier feels is most detrimental to the bee's development, because of the unknown interaction of the different chemicals.

Re: Can someone please explain the Foundationless hype to me?

Originally Posted by WLC

Bees bring contaminants into the hive all the time.

It could easily go from nectar or pollen into the wax, etc. .

Fellas, it's not a one way street.

More like a tree or a web I would say. By what means are bees bringing in the chemical residues which come from pesticides not put in beehives by beekeepers? Is it in the nectyar? Is it in the pollen? Does it get on the bees body while foraging and gets transfered to the wax? Does contaminated nectar get made into wax, which is made into comb? All of the above?

Re: Can someone please explain the Foundationless hype to me?

I agree that metirc is best for doing the math (especially the way I do math). But 0.1mm is about 0.004" (which is a number I understand)...quite thick.

This is a bit OT, but....It has been suggested to me (and based on my experience in manufacturing I tend to believe it) that there is one area in which metric falls short of the english system...and that is in machining/manufacturing. Because of the physical properties and the processes of manufacture (turning, milling), it turns out that 0.001" is a very useful increment. With decently made machine tools, 0.001" tolerance is easily achievable...with excellent tools, 0.0005" is not a problem. Most machined fittings work happily with 0.001" tolerance (some applications require honing or grinding which are capable of tighter tolerances).

Not so much with metric. 0.1mm is about .004" (when I used to make handmade piccolos for a living, we used #71 and #73 drills for different operations...these are 0.026" and 0.23" in diameter...with some experience I could tell just by looking which one it was). ...but 0.01mm is 0.0004" ...a hard increment to machine accurately without the best of tooling. .1mm is too big to be a useful base measurement, and .01mm is too small. Yes, this is OT, but I can't let an opportunity go by without sticking it to the metric system

Re: Can someone please explain the Foundationless hype to me?

Originally Posted by cerezha

exactly this is what says in link you provided:
Environmental impact
Main article: Imidacloprid effects on bees ...
...Neonicotinoid use has been strictly limited in France since the 1990s...
In 2008 Germany revoked the registration of clothianidin for use on seed corn after an incident that resulted in the death of hundreds of nearby honey bees....

The German incident was well documented to be caused by improper application / handling of the pesticide causing it to go airborne as dust and it was literally blown into the hives.

That said that incident was an anomolly and much different than the standard contact bees will have with the chemical and how it accumulates in the comb (which is the topic of this thread).