Most of my friends are parents. I am not, so this is just an outsider's perspective. It seems like going out anywhere with small children is a lose-lose situation. If you discipline them, you get busy-bodies criticizing you for being a bad parent. If you don't discipline them, you get busy-bodies criticizing you for being a bad parent.

Yep...I've gotten so many dirty stares because I generally take no BS from my kids in certain surroundings. I don't hit them but I will take them by an arm and discipline them in front of anyone. You know, like a parent is supposed to.

Do it now while you can, before some other radical left-wing nutjob group tries to make it a felony for you to discipline your kids as they introduce new plans for the government to be the parents....

Anyhow, I once was in Perkins and saw the funniest case of just deserves against a disruptive kid, ever. This 3-year old (give or take a year) was jumping up and down on the tables. He was also throwing food and yelling, and all that stuff.

So, after his mom told him several times to stop (to which all she got was laughing and more jumping) the kid's foot went into a plate, and he slipped off the table face down and met the floor, HARD.

Then came the screaming and crying...which was met by cheers of approval by almost everyone in the place, at which time the woman grappbed he child and told everyone to f**k off and that a lawsuit would be had if her little terror was injured in any way.

My girlfriend at the time was yelling at me all the way home as I laughed my ass off repeating the scene in my head. It's not he wasn't told to stop....

Most of my friends are parents. I am not, so this is just an outsider's perspective. It seems like going out anywhere with small children is a lose-lose situation. If you discipline them, you get busy-bodies criticizing you for being a bad parent. If you don't discipline them, you get busy-bodies criticizing you for being a bad parent.

Yep...I've gotten so many dirty stares because I generally take no BS from my kids in certain surroundings. I don't hit them but I will take them by an arm and discipline them in front of anyone. You know, like a parent is supposed to.

Do it now while you can, before some other radical left-wing nutjob group tries to make it a felony for you to discipline your kids as they introduce new plans for the government to be the parents....

Anyhow, I once was in Perkins and saw the funniest case of just deserves against a disruptive kid, ever. This 3-year old (give or take a year) was jumping up and down on the tables. He was also throwing food and yelling, and all that stuff.

So, after his mom told him several times to stop (to which all she got was laughing and more jumping) the kid's foot went into a plate, and he slipped off the table face down and met the floor, HARD.

Then came the screaming and crying...which was met by cheers of approval by almost everyone in the place, at which time the woman grappbed he child and told everyone to f**k off and that a lawsuit would be had if her little terror was injured in any way.

My girlfriend at the time was yelling at me all the way home as I laughed my ass off repeating the scene in my head. It's not he wasn't told to stop....

Natural consequences are the best kind of discipline, and that's about as perfect a lesson as you can get - jumping around on the tables is dangerous and it bothers other people. Here's the painful, embarrassing proof. But sure enough, when the kid pays a reasonable price for his actions, Mom messes up the whole learning opportunity by making the little bugger a victim. And she sets a fine example by screaming profanities at people in front of him.

Behind nearly every unruly, obnoxious child is a parent just like that.

Had I been in the same situation as that mother, I'd have comforted the kid, made sure he wasn't seriously hurt, and made damn sure he understood that he brought it all on himself by his actions, from falling off the table to being laughed at by the other diners. Depending on their reaction, and how much delight they were taking, I might have asked the others to show him a little pity. Laughing at someone else's misfortune is not the best example for a kid either.

I always make it clear to my daughter that when I tell her not to do something, I have a reason, whether it be protecting her safety, respecting others or whatever. And when she disobeys and something happens, I make it clear that I love her, I care about her, but I also told her not to do that and this is why. Whenever possible, Ro lives with the consequences of her actions, and she makes better choices as a result.

Shielding kids from natural consequences just breeds a***oles. Of course, that's a natural consequence of the parents' bad choices, so we can see they don't have too good a grasp on the idea either, so it follows that they aren't going to pass it on.

Most of my friends are parents. I am not, so this is just an outsider's perspective. It seems like going out anywhere with small children is a lose-lose situation. If you discipline them, you get busy-bodies criticizing you for being a bad parent. If you don't discipline them, you get busy-bodies criticizing you for being a bad parent.

Yep...I've gotten so many dirty stares because I generally take no BS from my kids in certain surroundings. I don't hit them but I will take them by an arm and discipline them in front of anyone. You know, like a parent is supposed to.

Do it now while you can, before some other radical left-wing nutjob group tries to make it a felony for you to discipline your kids as they introduce new plans for the government to be the parents....

Anyhow, I once was in Perkins and saw the funniest case of just deserves against a disruptive kid, ever. This 3-year old (give or take a year) was jumping up and down on the tables. He was also throwing food and yelling, and all that stuff.

So, after his mom told him several times to stop (to which all she got was laughing and more jumping) the kid's foot went into a plate, and he slipped off the table face down and met the floor, HARD.

Then came the screaming and crying...which was met by cheers of approval by almost everyone in the place, at which time the woman grappbed he child and told everyone to f**k off and that a lawsuit would be had if her little terror was injured in any way.

My girlfriend at the time was yelling at me all the way home as I laughed my ass off repeating the scene in my head. It's not he wasn't told to stop....

Natural consequences are the best kind of discipline, and that's about as perfect a lesson as you can get - jumping around on the tables is dangerous and it bothers other people. Here's the painful, embarrassing proof. But sure enough, when the kid pays a reasonable price for his actions, Mom messes up the whole learning opportunity by making the little bugger a victim. And she sets a fine example by screaming profanities at people in front of him.

I read the rest of your post, but highlighted this part of it because it's about as true as it gets, natural consequences are often more powerful than any residual consequences.

What's the old saying about "getting the test first and the lesson afterwards?"

Amen to the screaming mom thing too...seen enough of that too. Some parents act like their kids never did a thing, or say their kids were just "being kids" at the time their little Eggberts wind up getting what they asked for. Ya' just gotta' love it...

A little while back me and my girlfriend ate at a local family restaurant. Sadly the whole experience was somewhat ruined by a toddler running around all over the place seemingly unsupervised. This toddler was running about and squealing while her lazy grandparents watched on and did nothing unless she got out of their sight...nevermind the child being in the way of waitresses carrying hot food and hot beverages, nevermind the kid wandering into an area where she could have easily overturned cutlery unto herself, nevermind the kid wandering off where some stranger might have nabbed her, she nearly even wandered into the kitchen area?! ....Yeesh!

We were in a Japanese restaurant one time, and saw the funniest thing:

This woman was gabbing away on her cellphone, totally unaware of her 1-year old (estimated) who was picking up things and puttig them in his mouth.

And SO...he picked up a botlle of soy sauce and took a drink of it...the look on his face was priceless as he kicked back and went prostrate in his little chair. He started yelling "oooo-wooo-oooo!!!" and began crying.

My buddy and I laughed our asses off as she got the situation under control, and some of the waiters and chefs of to one side were mimicking the event and making the face the baby made.

And the mother saw it...

She was so embarrassed she left the restaurant after paying her bill, and when she left, both us and the waiters and the staff had a great laugh. Thankfully, the baby wasn't hurt, save for his pride.