So in the spirit of fighting fair, I thought I’d check up on the actual playing squads of the teams each of the top 4 had sent out on Tuesday and Wednesday. Let’s compare notes, shall we, and then you can all tell me how crap Manchester United are in the comments.

Comparison #1

Arsenal: Apart from Fabianski, Traore and Bendtner, all players starting for Arsenal are players who’ve had playing time in the senior team last season and / or this season. Song had a ‘goodish’ loan spell at Charlton, Bendtner did well in the Championship.

Chelsea: Apart from Sinclair, every other player has decent first-team experience, either at Chelsea or elsewhere (Sidwell).

Liverpool: Itandje, Lucas and Leto don’t usually feature even in rotation but all other players on the pitch have, once again, had decent first-team experience, either at Liverpool or elsewhere (Benayoun).

Manchester United: Evans and Simpson have Championship experience, Pique has La Liga experience, Anderson has his time at Porto, Bardsley has his Aston Villa time, Nani has featured regularly, Kuszczak is relatively experienced and O’Shea of course has been around for a while.

Comparison #2

Now I want you to look at all four squads and point out ‘regular starters’ – or, if you wish, members of the senior squad – for each club. Go ahead.

Chelsea, apart from Scott Sinclair and Steve Sidwell, are filled with regular starters (and Sidwell was a regular at Reading before he moved to Chelsea.

Arsenal have players who are usually rotated – I wouldn’t call anyone except Eboue a regular, although him along with Senderos have played relatively less this season.

Liverpool also have regular starters all over apart from Itandje, Lucas and Leto.

Manchester United‘s regular starters? O’Shea is experienced so we’ll add him here, Nani has played regularly this season so he comes in (although as a new signing he’s still being eased in and would be equal to, or perhaps slightly ahead of, Eduardo in acclimatisation) and if you want to stretch it, you can include Kuszczak and the subs (Brown and Carrick).

Comparison #3

Now you should go back again, and see which teams fielded squads who’ve played games together.

Arsenal‘s squad, once again, has it’s share of ‘fresh’ kids but they’ve all had time on the pitch and more importantly, time playing together.

Chelsea and Liverpool – both squads have been playing regularly and as teams.

Manchester United – well, considering that we had a new back four (all other teams had at least 2 relatively ‘experienced’ defenders, even Arsenal with Eboue and Senderos), only O’Shea in midfield (Arsenal’s midfield was weak too but I’d rate Denilson over O’Shea and possibly Diarra at a par or at least with a lot more potential than O’Shea) and Anderson and Dong up front (Arsenal, as they’re the only team with a comparably weak squad, had Bendtner and Eduardo up front, both of whom are better than Dong and more experienced in English conditions than Anderson).

Conclusions

Compare the squads above and draw your own conclusions (and share in the comments) – for me, the following points are worth noting:

Chelsea and Liverpool fielded relatively senior teams, but since they were playing away, I won’t hold that against them. To have it claimed that those two teams have ‘squad depth’ is a bit of a joke, since we didn’t get to see that squad depth.

Arsenal fielded their second string, and I have to admit here that those kids showed good composure to beat a nearly full-strength Newcastle United. One thing working in Arsenal’s favor is that they had relatively experienced players on the pitch, but you could never in a million years take away anything from that performance, it would great. Newcastle didn’t find the target, but that’s the rub, I guess, and you can’t hold that against Arsenal.

Senderos, Eboue, Denilson, Walcott, Eduardo – all 5 can be classified as second-string – still, a very young squad.

Manchester United fielded an XI with a majority of the players either not used to playing with each other or not even classified as ‘second string’. Bardsley is not the second-choice right-back, Wes Brown is. Evans and Pique are not second-choice defenders – Brown, O’Shea (and when fit, Silvestre) are. Simpson is not second-choice left-back, Silvestre or O’Shea is. Lee Martin and Chris Eagles are not second-choice wingers – Nani, Park and Fletcher are (assuming that Giggs and Ronny are first choice). O’Shea qualifies as a second-choice midfielder but he’s 5th in the pecking order (6th if you count Giggsy being picked ahead of him). Dong and Anderson are not second-choice strikers – Fergie rotates the top 3 and uses Giggs or Ronaldo as support strikers when necessary.

In terms of playing in position, the only three players I’d call as ‘second-string’ are Nani, Kuzczak and O’Shea.

The question here is not of quality, but experience playing together and actually playing a real second-string side instead of pretending that you’re doing so. Manchester United’s second string is mostly injured (Silvestre, Fletcher, Park) and with several first team players injured (Hargreaves, Neville, Rooney till recently, Saha with his ‘issues’), United have had their squad stretched a bit and as a result players who might have started this game (Brown, Saha, Carrick) sat on the bench or in the stands preparing for next week’s game against Roma.

I know I’m inviting a lot of criticism here, but go ahead and tell me where I’m wrong in this analysis. I welcome your comments, as long as you comment about something I’ve written here and do so after reading everything. Calling me an ass help no one (you can go here and call Daniel Taylor an ass if you want to).

tbh, none of the top 4 are producing young talent as such – wenger is buying young foreign players so its no real credit to their academy but to their scouting network. the one thing wenger is best at though is picking up great talent at next to nothing – look at fabregas and denilson for example

i’m a liverpool fan and i think you might have badly missed the point. as far as i know everyone originally accepted that you had put a weakened team out. i don’t think anyone looked at the united team and thought ‘yeah they’ll deffo go through’. as you say it wasn’t even your second string you had out. there’s no need for any analysis it was already blatantly obvious to everyone.

as i see it the ‘criticism’ that followed is people falling in line with old whiskey-nose who was apparently flabbergasted that you didn’t win. am i just being naive in thinking those were the words of someone trying to say “i’m sorry to the 70,000+ fans who’ve just wasted ‘x’ amount of money but those lads out there have let you down badly, nothing to do with the fact that i’ve picked the weakest 11 players i could have possibly found, it’s them not me.”

when rafa did the same in carling and fa cups in recent years it was he who took the blame from all quarters when they lost, not the pile of shite he’d put out on the pitch. “these johnny foreigner managers have no respect or understanding of the english game” they said.

anyone would think the media are scared to give out in a certain manager’s direction and after this amount in the job maybe some fans are blind to it as well?

did i ever mention, even once, in my post that utd are producing good youngsters from our academy. If i did, you can crticise me but for now I suggest you buy some reading glasses or ask someone to interpret what Ive written – if you feel it is beyond the scope of your understanding

all i said is arsenal dont produce their own talent which is entirely correct – i never said Utd do

sorry but your comparison does not justify the result. If Man United does not have a second team that is able to beat coventry home ( that lost to les) than i am afraid you have only a temp team.Also i would like to applaud Micheal Mifsud for the good game (he is Maltese Like Me and played some time together)But honestly that is what rafa is doing good that is were rotation comes in so everyone has a game or two under his belt.

the part of my post referring to our young talent is aimed at those that believe Utd do not have young talent. Ill be the first to acknowledge that our acadermy has produced shyte for a long time now. But people make it sound (not anyone on here in particular) that arsenal have a super academy (which is not really true judgig by the young talent they produce) – and that was what I meant by the first half of that post

the part of my post referring to our young talent (ronaldo, nani, anderson, rooney etc) is aimed at those that believe Utd do not have young talent at the club.

Ill be the first to acknowledge that our acadermy has produced shyte (in terms of LOCAL talent) for a long time now. But people make it sound (not anyone on here in particular) that arsenal have a super academy (which is not really true judgig by the young talent they produce) – and that was what I meant

Are you f**kin kidding m8 .. how about taking the opposition into consideration .. Newcastle fielded all starters or 2 deep .. By far they were the toughest opponents from all the 4 opponents .. Coventry City ? Hull ? You’ve gotta be kidding me .. Talk about Liverpool facing Reading .. Half the Reading squad was out and replaced by non-starters …

And Shaheen m8 .. r u high on Pepsi ? Because if you think you have by far the better young players .. you’re way out of touch with reality .. Agreed on Rooney and Ronaldo .. But the rest are as unproven as Avram Grant … The amount of money you pay for a player doesn’t make him better .. I think thats the logic you’re seem to be following ..

Awful analysis. Senderos in the pecking order is 3rd behind Djourou, and Gilberto. Hoyte is 4th or even 5th behind Sagna, Eboue, Flamini, and maybe even Diarra, Alex Song is 4th in the pecking order behind all the players mentioned above.

Denilson has had a run in the team due to our injury crisis last week but he’s certainly not second string. Neither is Diarra who is third behind Gilberto and Flamini. Walcott playing on the left in midfield would queue behind Rosicky and Diaby, or Eboue and Hleb on the right.

It was by any means not Arsenal’s second string by your own measure. The difference is that Arsene has given chances to great young players who have taken their chances.

Your chanting conventional wisdom saying Arsenal has a thin squad is blind. Can you imagine Gilberto, World Cup winner and Captain of Brazil on the bench?

Shaheen,
Does academy have to produce their own babies in order to qualify as academies? The academy in Arsenal is producing goods irregardless of passport or nationalities. All youngsters that came in are relatively unknown & it’s the function of the academy is to turn these raw diamonds into gems. So you were saying Arsenal’s academy deserves no credit…..
to be continue…

The Carling Cup is a testament to that. How much does your entire 2nd string cost? Since the days of Scholes, Beckham & Neville brothers…..what have MU academy turn out so far? Chris Eagles? Kieran Richardson? Because MU academy is churning out nobodies, they bought Nani & Anderson for 30m+ quids? Honestly, so far among the premier clubs, how many have churned out above average youngsters? Please tell me.

Ah arsenal fans full of fear of united.anderson will do it as soon as he gets to grips with the premiership.he has that brazilian class that only brazilians have.special players like kaka,ronaldo(brazil)have “the spark” and this boy anderson has it.and we dont really care bout how many youngsters arsenal or liverpool or chelsea have.arsenal havent played any strong team this year give them bolton or something.liverpool will be inconsistent like always.chelsea?

Lets take couple of points:
Comparison 4: Opponents faced (Chelsea hull) They played near full strength squad as Avram grant had to have this win and learning his squad so to say.
Liverpool faced Reading who inspite of their position in table is not an opposition to take lightly. In fact it took all of Torres’ brilliance in the second half to get them over.
Arsenal played a near full strength NCU who fielded the strongest team they could as fat Sam wanted atleast one trophy to show for in the first year. And hence the stronger squad selection. Even Arsene has said he is dictated by the opponents strength to progress and he will find the team to beat the opposition while trying to give oppurtunity for the younger generation, case in point. Gavin Hoyte, Fran Merida, Lanisbury(17yrs), Vito Mannone made the bench. So if we had faced Coventry city most likely some of them would have seen more action.
So if the team selection is bad then blame the manager not the team. but if the manager thinks they are good enough to beat the opposition dont come crying that they are not experienced enough. Also for the experience of the so called first team regulars we paid for in points in the last couple of years Fabregas, Diaby, clichy, Eboue, Sanderos, Djourou, Song, Denilson Adebayor etc. tell me how many had first team appearences in the last year’s CC squad when they beat Everton, Tottenham and Liverpool?

and Arsene do not rotate much. His philosophy is that if u are performing good then u keep the place(watch Jens, Eboue, gilberto struggling to get into the squad) one exception is Walcott who is given more and more chances since he is English and gaffer things he is going to be good.

‘………..My main point is that United’s squad as a whole was unfairly criticised when the players on the pitch have little Premier League experience and little experience playing together in competitive games………”

Taehr, arsenal havent played a strong team yet??? give them bolton???? HAHA are u fucking kidding me??? please give your mouth a rest its making you look like a idiot. i dont think thats hard tho to be honest. Bolton??? hahahahahahahha! man city dwarf bolton by far, tottenham are shit but still are stronger than bolton, shit id even go as far as saying derby are stronger!! and portsmouth aswell fuckin kick the motherfuckin shit out of bolton! and in the champs leage we beat sevilla 3-0. please know atleast a bit about football before ur mouth spills shit.

“Chelsea and Liverpool fielded relatively senior teams, but since they were playing away, I won’t hold that against them. To have it claimed that those two teams have ‘squad depth’ is a bit of a joke”????

Are you kidding me chelsea’s team probably cost more than the entire championship teams put together they have atleast too good players for eac position.

Have arsenal played any top 4 team?uh dont fink so dude.yah bolton.judging by your childish reactions.fear of bolton is still there.we know how arsenal play against these rough teams(sheffield united??)bolton and that blackburn.arsenal havent yet played a team that rough up.give no space to play.tackle on sight. Ill judge the youngsters when arsenal beat these rough teams.gilberto,denilson and eduardo???come on.eduardo player for croatia.dont give a fuck where he was born.

comparing how much the players cost has nothing to do with their talent or ability, all it proves is that United played two of their latest recruits, both of whom have the potential to be world class players. Oh, and it probably makes Arsenal fans happier to see that they don’t spend money to win. More power to you.

Do you see me shoving the 10 Premier League titles in anyone’s face? No. Try focusing on the discussion as opposed to introducing tangents which serve to prove points we’ve already agreed on (that Arsenal spend less and still have a great pool of talent) and which have no relevance on the current question.

Wenger pays through the nose for his youngsters Denilson, Eduardo et al. I am not criticising that in itself, but the blind eulogies of “look at all the young talent Arsenal have produced…” need qualifying.

The real point is that Alex Ferguson got it badly wrong on the night. He played too inexperienced a team against Coventry. Another experienced defender was needed and at least one good striker. To start a home cup tie against a Championship team with one striker up front, and an inexperienced one at that (Dong!) showed an excess of confidence on SAF’s part that the team and formation that he put out could do the job. My only surprise is that SAF was “surprised” by the poor performance of the youngsters as a team. His scathing criticism of the team afterwards sounded a lot like a bad workman (on this occasion) blaming his tools.

It was unfair on the youngsters to chuck them together and just hope it would work on the night. Even in pre-season friendlies SAF took pains to make sure that his sides were balanced between youth and experience (e.g. remember the night United played two teams: one in Ireland and the other in Scotland). Why not do something similar for the Coca Cola cup? These boys simply did not have the physical presence or desire to stand up to the strapping hardened professionals of the lower league side.

The real problem for United underlying all of this is that the club are desparately short of experienced match-fit strikers. SAF probably felt that he couldn’t take a chance on playing the likes of Rooney, Tevez or Saha in the Coventry game with important premiership and Champions League games coming up. The gulf in class between that group and the likes of Dong and Campbell is just too great. What really stood out on the night against Coventry, was United’s complete lack of fire-power. Struggling to score goals has been the one of the stories of their season so far.

I was so busy staring at the pic up top that I…oh, never mind, you know how us United fans are, we think we deserve to win the title. No wait, that’s Arsenal. We just think it’s our year…no, wait, that’s Liverpool. We actually think we’re special, no, wait, they’re not special anymore, are they?

Well Obviously we do not have the ‘most skilled’ or ‘star-filled’ Carling Cup sides but hey e showed what we could do ast season beating a full-stregnth Spur side (See, They are totally shit puds cannot even bat a buunch of 19 year-old kids!, Maybe the Under 11′s Girls Side might just loseto Spuds.. if the girls had no keepr and 3 players!) But we only ust lost to a Chelsea side with the likes of Lampard, Cech, Drogba etc. 2-1..

What a ****ed up article. Once again it is ‘why man u lost’ or ‘we lost but it would have been the same if chelsea,liverpool or arsenal had played in our spot’. Honestly Ahmed, your loyalty is so warped………….

Your article is not indepth analysis, you must start watching matches, preferrably live on the ground, rather than watch some clips and comment on the quality of game play.

I find it hard to understand why do you not give Liverpool and Arsenal the credit they deserve?

Honestly as much good as a team Man U are, they are playing rubbish football at the moment. And why not say Coventry outplayed Man U? Thats the reality. Also why not just accept the future for Man U is not rosy, either on the field and off it as well.

iqnadirshah – i hope that’s sarcasm otherwise you need to put down the pipe and start READING

PM – i’ll promise to come over and watch a game live with you if you can manage to read this article again and tell me what I’m saying. I’ve given Arsenal due credit (a lot, actually), have said that Coventry outplayed United, and as far as the rest of it goes, I’d disagree but then it’s a matter of opinion, not based on facts

Seriously guys, I appreciate the feedback, but if you’re not going to read AT ALL and comment on your hallucinations, then…there’s not much point in you talking, eh?