Whom do you suggest be the first 1100 people to commit suicide? or, if
you aren't that extreme, who are the first 1100 people you suggest be
sterilized after having their first child? It may be a bandaid and you
may very well be right, but how do we enforce a reduction of the world's
population? I suspect that the only way this will happen is via natural
consequences. When the food trucks quit bringing food to the cities,
they will be very dangerous places.. I fear we are on a train ride from
which we can't escape easily.

I would like to take the position (for a 4th or 5th time) that we cannot
solve the long term problem with energy type solutions. Our basic
problem is that there too many people for the earth's resources to
accommodate. If not energy, then water, food, pollution or some other
factor will harm us in the near future.. Energy may or may not be the
most imminent problem but we must address the real problem of
overpopulation.

Everything else is just a Band-Aid solution IMO. It will work for a
while but two decades will tell a different story. Nature (human or
other) will provide solutions in terms of massive deaths by starvation,
disease, war or other forms of extermination.

IMHO

How is that for out-glooming Glenn Morton?

Walt

Innovatia wrote:

From: "Glenn Morton" <glennmorton@entouch.net>

Glenn drew the conclusion:

> Just another couple of years and demand will far outstrip supply. God
help
our
> children and grandchildren.

Some of us on this list concur with Glenn's viewpoint. As Christians and

ASAers, the question then arises as to what we should do in response.
Some
possibilities are:

1. Wring our hands and discuss the situation.
2. Start doing something about it, aided by the associations we have
through ASA and this listserver.

The first category is not useless, for through it, others become aware
that
there is a problem, and that might contribute to # 2. This list-server
discussion might contribute toward that end while informing us of the
situation.

2. Encourage the ASA Global Resources & Environment Commission and CEST
(Christian Engineers & Scientists in Technology) to sound out their
memberships for interest in prototype development of a viable
alternative
energy system. Incidentally, ASA Council member Ken Touryan manages govt

alternative energy research.

3. Write a piece for the ASA journal on the subject. (Glenn has
described
the situation there before.)

4. For those with skills in alternative energy systems development, work
on
such a project commercially and/or on a hobby basis with a small group
of
doers.

I am doing # 4, contemplating # 3, might do # 2 (though ASA Commissions
to
date appear to be more organization than action), and will combine # 1
into
# 4. I am interested in off-list collaboration with anyone (students,
academicians, industry/govt/NPO engineers or scientists, retirees)
interested in providing technical/scientific contributions to a project
I
have started, the development of a solar thermal electric system (STES)
- in
particular, anyone who has some knoweldge of thermodynamic working
fluids in
the 100 to 300 deg C range.

As the oil situation worsens, there is new hope for thermal-to-electric
conversion devices. At present, advances have been made in increasing
efficiency (to over 4 %) of thermocouples (thermoelectric modules, or
TEMs)
(www.hi-z.com), such as those found in car coolers, to where it is
feasible
to use them to produce electricity from heat, which (unlike electric
charge)
is cheap to store at high density. Also under development are thermionic
and
electron quantum-tunneling devices, the latter being funded by Rolls
Royce
(www.powerchips.gi), with prototype devices showing 15 % efficiency.
That is
sufficient to replace automobile engines. A STES designed using TEMs can
be
retrofitted in the future with the higher-efficiency devices.

Are any of you involved in alternative energy development at present? If
so,
I at least would be interested to hear what you are doing.

Dennis Feucht
dennis@innovatia.com

--
===================================
Walt Hicks <wallyshoes@mindspring.com>
In any consistent theory, there must
exist true but not provable statements.
(Godel's Theorem)
You can only find the truth with logic
If you have already found the truth
without it. (G.K. Chesterton)
===================================