Do you have a power measuring device? I'm curious what electricity the Mini consumes on standby and during active use. If it is less than a Premiere or HD then adopters can see additional savings on the electric bill.

I measured my Premier 4 with a Kill-A-Watt meter at about ~18 watts with the TV off and ~22 with the TV on (it bounced around a bit those were the averages).

I would image the mini would use less then that, but I was surprised to see the PS3 pulling ~10 watts when in standby too so...

Do you have a power measuring device? I'm curious what electricity the Mini consumes on standby and during active use. If it is less than a Premiere or HD then adopters can see additional savings on the electric bill.

Quote:

Originally Posted by davezatz

I may have a Kill-A-Watt somewhere if spotterman wants to try. Can't recall if I already gave it away though. Will check tonight if need be.

No, I don't have one. I'd be glad to check it out of somebody can get one to me.

So now we just have to wait for this to come to retail. Seems like late March or early April (hopefully).

Now the question is the pricing model.

Tivo Mini cost - ??

Will there be an additional service charge or will it be baked into the Tivo Mini? If not:

Monthly Service - ??
Lifetime Service - ??

Tivo can really screw this one up if they price it incorrectly. I personally would rather pay $199 for the mini including lifetime service. This is a fair price IMO.

Plus it would allow them to capture the greatest revenue. If they price it higher, their volume would be significantly lower and not lock in current Tivo owners. They would also see a nice bump in sales from those with previous gen models that have been on the fence. This could be a game changer for them...Especially if they make this compelling enough to keep others from going with Dish or At&t which already offer whole house DVR services.

We don't yet know the exact prices but we do know that there will be a service charge. We assume they will offer both a monthly and lifetime option.

Based current pricing schemes I'm betting the Mini will be more like $250-$300 with lifetime service. Or $100-$150 + $6/mo for monthly. But that's just a wild guess. We wont know for sure until they say something, or someone leaks the info.

Based current pricing schemes I'm betting the Mini will be more like $250-$300 with lifetime service. Or $100-$150 + $6/mo for monthly. But that's just a wild guess. We wont know for sure until they say something, or someone leaks the info.

If you guess is right I think it may be a tough sell, why?

Right now its going to require a 4 tuner unit which costs more than the 2 tuner unit, plus its used availability is limited so you're at full cost of $200 to $250 (or more for the XL) based on promotions. Which is $100 more than the 2 tuner unit.

Next I can purchase a second unit (Premiere) which gives me all the capabilities of the mini WITHOUT giving up a tuner for $150, or $100 for a factory refurbished one. Next I need service on the second unit (first is a given so I'm not including its price) a second unit costs $400 for lifetime so total cost is between $500 and $550 if its refurbished or new.

Further used units with lifetime service are selling at roughly $450.

So if I went for 2 Premieres (not 4 tuner units) my cost would be (excluding lifetime service on the first unit which service is required regardless)

$300 - 2 new units
$400 - lifetime on the second unit
$700 - total (knock $100 off the total for 2 factory referbished units)

Mini -
$250 - Premiere 4
$250 - $300 Mini (est)
$500 - $550 total

so the savings at worst is $200 and at best $100 plus the loss of a tuner. Ok yes you save 1 cablecard rental, for me that's $4 per month ($48 per year)

So for the $100 I'd buy a second unit.

Then again we can all hope the FCC gets everybody motivated for steaming compatibility between different vendors and I'll just keep VZ's STB for $6 per month

which have the display attached to a several foot long cord. So it's not as much of a pain to read the display to see how much power is being used. It's amazing how much power some devices use while in standby.

which have the display attached to a several foot long cord. So it's not as much of a pain to read the display to see how much power is being used. It's amazing how much power some devices use while in standby.

They can't price it too low without alienating their cable company customers. Since the cable comapnies will probably be charging a hefty monthly rental fee for it.

Suddenlink is charging $6 or $7 per month with zero up-front cost. I think TiVo could price this very low and not risk alienating their cable operators. I hope TiVo decides to be very aggressive on retail pricing since this could significantly boost retail subscriber numbers.

Suddenlink is charging $6 or $7 per month with zero up-front cost. I think TiVo could price this very low and not risk alienating their cable operators. I hope TiVo decides to be very aggressive on retail pricing since this could significantly boost retail subscriber numbers.

According to the article the TiVo Stream is available for a comparatively ripoff rental price of $10/month yet Stream can be bought retail for ~ $129. So trying to predict up front cost with lifetime based on extrapolation from a monthly rental price wouldn't work in this case since it would put Mini at under $100 which isn't at all realistic.

Under $100 for the box plus a service fee is conceivable. They sell refurbished 2 tuner TiVos for $60. They're willing to subsidize hardware as long as they make it up in service fees. Plus this could also boost sales of 4 tuner units. I'm betting the box will be relatively cheap. However I expect the service to be $6/mo or $150-200 for lifetime.

So now we just have to wait for this to come to retail. Seems like late March or early April (hopefully).

Now the question is the pricing model.

Tivo Mini cost - ??

Will there be an additional service charge or will it be baked into the Tivo Mini? If not:

Monthly Service - ??
Lifetime Service - ??

Tivo can really screw this one up if they price it incorrectly. I personally would rather pay $199 for the mini including lifetime service. This is a fair price IMO.

Plus it would allow them to capture the greatest revenue. If they price it higher, their volume would be significantly lower and not lock in current Tivo owners. They would also see a nice bump in sales from those with previous gen models that have been on the fence. This could be a game changer for them...Especially if they make this compelling enough to keep others from going with Dish or At&t which already offer whole house DVR services.

I find it hard to justify a service fee for the Tivo Mini if it doesn't have a true dynamic tuner capability. I'm already paying for the tuner and guide service for the tuner the Mini uses. Why charge me again?

In reality, TiVo could easily sell the Mini at retail without a subscription fee. The problem with that model is the way TiVo is forced to account for Mini's from a Financial Accounting Standards Board (FASB) perspective. If TiVo sells the TiVo Mini without a subscription, they would only be able to count a Mini box as hardware revenue. On the other hand, if the Mini provides recurring monthly revenue or lifetime revenue amortized over 66 months, then TiVo can count each Mini box as a retail TiVo subscriber. In other words, TiVo maximizes the value of the company by charging some sort of nominal recurring fee for the TiVo Mini. IMHO, this is the primary reason TiVo is charging a recurring subscription fee for the Mini.

Because TiVo has to pay Tribune Media Services (TMS) for access to the guide data on another device?

How is that working from the iPhone and iPad that I have that is getting access to guide data for the my Premiere? I don't pay a monthly fee or service for each of them. If that is the argument then it just doesn't hold water.

But the question then is, will the retail stream pair with an MSO-provided Premiere? If it doesn't, then they are two separate universes. They can still allow Premiere-to-Premiere transfers.

The Stream should be about $200. That's where the MCE extenders have been, and it's a premium over things like Roku because of the integration with a local DVR.

The concept of service with the Mini is nuts. Even with the Premieres, it's stupid, as they are just hiding $500 of the cost of a new Premiere on another web page. It's sort of bait-and-switchy.

You appear to have been around a long time - so you should be very familiar with how TiVo charges for their DVRs it has been the same since the beginning (having separate hardware and service charges). Having TiVo do the same thing with the Mini shouldn't really be all that surprising. Pay TV providers and cell phone companies do the same thing - move some or all of the hardware costs to on going monthly fees, at least with TiVo you can pay everything upfront and be done with it.

Because TiVo has to pay Tribune Media Services (TMS) for access to the guide data on another device?

If that's true, it would indicate that the Tribune Media Services lawyers have made fools of the TiVo lawyers. There shouldn't be a fee just for remote viewing. As others have mentioned, the iPhone, iPad, etc, require no fees. I don't pay a fee when I use Zap2it.

Do we know whether the mini (at this point) draws its guide data remotely from the host premiere, or whether it autonomously downloads its own guide data from tivo?

If it's the latter, then paying Tribune makes sense.

Spotterman26, when you went through the guided setup for your minis, did you see the "downloading guide data for 24 hours), or any messages like that?

I believe the Mini draws guide data from its host Premiere box. I don't think it stores any guide data locally. I understand why you'll think TiVo has crappy lawyers because they've signed a poor contract with TMS, etc. The fact of the matter remains that TiVo does have to pay some recurring monthly costs associated with supporting a Mini. Could they amortize those costs across the lifetime of the Mini - absolutely. From a business perspective, it makes sense for them to charge a nominal fee so they can recognize Mini revenue over the course of a Mini's lifetime.

Do we know whether the mini (at this point) draws its guide data remotely from the host premiere, or whether it autonomously downloads its own guide data from tivo?

If it's the latter, then paying Tribune makes sense.

Spotterman26, when you went through the guided setup for your minis, did you see the "downloading guide data for 24 hours), or any messages like that?

Highly unlikely the Mini downloads guide data and stores it locally since there is very little storage on the Mini for that kind of thing (remember no hard drive). Since Mini appears to be using same HDUI software as series 4 units it does communicate with tivo.com servers for some guide information. But the iOS and Android apps do as well.
I suppose a quick test for this is to take the "Q" host TiVo off the network and see if the Mini is at all functional as far as doing searches and bringing up the guide, etc. If it has local guide information or is using tivo.com to get the information the Mini should still work independent of the host. My guess is Mini won't have access to any guide information without the host which would indicate it's totally dependent on the host for that info.

Far more likely, as has been stated, TiVo chooses to charge a subscription "because they can" and they think it will help their business model. Time will tell if that is a wise decision. At the end of the day it's the final cost that matters - they can try to justify the cost any way they want but I don't buy the pay for listings argument.

If that's true, it would indicate that the Tribune Media Services lawyers have made fools of the TiVo lawyers. There shouldn't be a fee just for remote viewing. As others have mentioned, the iPhone, iPad, etc, require no fees. I don't pay a fee when I use Zap2it.

I thought the difference was that those devices aren't connected directly to the Tv to use? The Mini is designed to be directly connected to a TV. And that could be the difference and why they would be charged a fee.