Mixed doubles

Hi,
I'll be playing mixed doubles this winter, for the first time in my tennis experience. I've heard from others that mixed leagues NTRP levels are different than that of a men's NTRP level. Is this true?

Hi,
I'll be playing mixed doubles this winter, for the first time in my tennis experience. I've heard from others that mixed leagues NTRP levels are different than that of a men's NTRP level. Is this true?

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The NTRP levels are the same in adult and mixed. In that if you play 3.5 adult in the summer you are likely considered a 3.5 for mixed. *** Unless your rating has changed or unless your league uses early start ratings which should be the same but sometimes differ slightly.

What does happen however in mixed is that teams use a combine rating of the two players ... ie a 3.5 man and a 3.5 woman play together and are called a 7.0 team. OR you could see a 4.0 man with a 3.0 woman . Both combine to an average of 3.5 but this is called 7.0 mixed.

mixed dubs is a very challenging subset of regular dubs. this is because the USTA in its infinite wisdom does not have gender neutral rating system. so a male 3.0 player is not on par with a female 3.0 player. this creates all sorts of unique situations in actual play.

if you play video games a good analogy is that it's like playing super mario brothers and beating the level and then nintendo says, hey now try beating this game UPSIDE DOWN! same game - totally different gameplay.

i find that a cheaper alternative to playing mixed dubs but still getting all the benefits of mixed dubs is to run around your block as fast as you can and then when you get home - punch yourself in the face. i have just saved you a lot of money.

I think the 6.0 is very social (I've never done it tho). You could have a 3.5 man and a 2.5 woman on the same team... obviously this could be a HUGE skill difference.... if this is the case, try not to pound too much at the 2.5 player. You have every right to do so... it's just more of a social thing.

In 7.0, it would be not uncommon to have a 4.0 man and a 3.0 woman. Sure, this is also a large skill gap, but more common is two 3.5's or a 3.5 and a 3.0 together. Still a social thing, but not near as much as 6.0. You being a 3.0, I think (if you are not a jerk anyway) you can have a lot of fun being partnered with a good 3.5 or 4.0 woman. Lot of guys let their egos cloud their view of women players, but playing with some women with good skill is a lot of fun. If you aren't a couple, there is a different dynamic... and I don't mean anything to do with flirting... I've had a blast.

If you are a legitimate 3.0 guy, you have two choices: 6.0 mixed or 7.0 mixed.

I would suggest 7.0 mixed. You will get to face 3.5 and 4.0 guys, and that will be fun. You will have a 4.0 female partner. She will not knock the fuzz off the ball, but she will be much more consistent than you are. You might do very well.

One suggestion, though. Please don't assume you should serve first just because you are the dude. If your serve is wonky, you two might do better having her serve first, especially if you are good/imposing at net.

I have played with 3.5 guys, and they always assume they should serve first. They are correct in all situations so far except one. That guy couldn't get his serve in to save his life. We did much better holding when I served than when he did so I obviously should have served first.

If you are a legitimate 3.0 guy, you have two choices: 6.0 mixed or 7.0 mixed.

I would suggest 7.0 mixed. You will get to face 3.5 and 4.0 guys, and that will be fun. You will have a 4.0 female partner. She will not knock the fuzz off the ball, but she will be much more consistent than you are. You might do very well.

One suggestion, though. Please don't assume you should serve first just because you are the dude. If your serve is wonky, you two might do better having her serve first, especially if you are good/imposing at net.

I have played with 3.5 guys, and they always assume they should serve first. They are correct in all situations so far except one. That guy couldn't get his serve in to save his life. We did much better holding when I served than when he did so I obviously should have served first.

Needless to say, that didn't happen. Needless to say, we lost.

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Thank you Cindy. I'll ping my group for any 3.5 women who are OK "slumming it" with a 3.0 male partner. The winter mixed league is my only opportunity to train during the winter months, so I want to make sure that the people really want to play, not to be a purely "social" thing. In regards to serving, I actually don't like serving first, so that's not an issue.

Thank you Cindy. I'll ping my group for any 3.5 women who are OK "slumming it" with a 3.0 male partner. The winter mixed league is my only opportunity to train during the winter months, so I want to make sure that the people really want to play, not to be a purely "social" thing. In regards to serving, I actually don't like serving first, so that's not an issue.

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OK, but you might as well look for a solid 4.0 woman if it is 7.0 mixed and you're a 3.0.

And the NTRP difference cannot exceed 1.0 between players. You cant have a 4.5 and a 2.5 playing 7.0 for example.

What is your record at 3.0 mens like? If your record is bad, I wouldnt play 7.0 because your 4.0 girl partner is not going to enjoy playing with you lol. Remember, as a 3.0 man playing 7.0 mixed you're going to be expected to play "even" with a 4.0 woman and not be a "liability" against a 4.0 man on a competitive team.

If you're just playing for "fun" and your team is for "fun" then go ahead and test yourself in 7.0. If that team is a competitive, going-for-it, team, I wouldnt even think about it unless you're at least 80% wins in 3.0, preferably at doubles.

To put this into perspective, you will be up against two 3.5 players who are likely 4.0's in ability once you get to the playoff level. In order for a 3.0 man, 4.0 woman, combo to work, your girl is going to need to play "at level" (meaning 4.0) and you're going to have to play up, way up, to a strong 3.5 or better to stand a chance.

4.0 is when players start to become much more "competitive" and a lot less "social".

Here, mixed is one of the most competitive leagues there are. You have "3.0's for life" here who go to nationals on a regular basis who play mixed exclusively.

To be honest as a 3.0 man finding a good home in 7.0 mixed can be challenging unless you are an underrated 3.0. Many teams will take you because there is a shortage of 3.0 men for 7.0 mixed, but you wont play much unless the team is really poor or you are in reality a 3.5 in 3.0 clothing.

Mostly because 4.0 women will most likely have may other playing options and wont choose 7.0 unless they are happy with their partner. And good teams wont play folks that they expect to lose.

mixed dubs is a very challenging subset of regular dubs. this is because the USTA in its infinite wisdom does not have gender neutral rating system. so a male 3.0 player is not on par with a female 3.0 player. this creates all sorts of unique situations in actual play.

if you play video games a good analogy is that it's like playing super mario brothers and beating the level and then nintendo says, hey now try beating this game UPSIDE DOWN! same game - totally different gameplay.

i find that a cheaper alternative to playing mixed dubs but still getting all the benefits of mixed dubs is to run around your block as fast as you can and then when you get home - punch yourself in the face. i have just saved you a lot of money.

What is your record at 3.0 mens like? If your record is bad, I wouldnt play 7.0 because your 4.0 girl partner is not going to enjoy playing with you lol. Remember, as a 3.0 man playing 7.0 mixed you're going to be expected to play "even" with a 4.0 woman and not be a "liability" against a 4.0 man on a competitive team.

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Nah. A 3.0 guy playing mixed will be expected to play like a 3.0 guy playing mixed. He will not be expected to play "even" with a 4.0 woman. This is because she is essentially one USTA level stronger and will be way, way more consistent.

No matter what the 3.0 guy does, he will be a "liability" against the 4.0 guy. On account of how a 4.0 guy is two full USTA levels above him. The 3.0guy/4.0woman pair can still win by ruthlessly targeting the 3.0 female opponent.

The job of the 3.0 guy will be to get his serves in and keep the ball in play. He should know he will see most of the balls, and he shouldn't try to do more than he can comfortably do. The worst thing he can do is try to play even with the 4.0 gal or guy, because he will go down in a flaming blaze of UEs.

If you're just playing for "fun" and your team is for "fun" then go ahead and test yourself in 7.0. If that team is a competitive, going-for-it, team, I wouldnt even think about it unless you're at least 80% wins in 3.0, preferably at doubles.

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Mmmm, maybe.

A playoff-bound team will probably not want many 4.0woman/3.0guy pairs. If you get on such a team, it will be fine if your expectations are appropriate. Unless you and your partner are both at the top of your rating levels, you won't play much.

To put this into perspective, you will be up against two 3.5 players who are likely 4.0's in ability once you get to the playoff level. In order for a 3.0 man, 4.0 woman, combo to work, your girl is going to need to play "at level" (meaning 4.0) and you're going to have to play up, way up, to a strong 3.5 or better to stand a chance.

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The bold part is the problem: Who said anything about "playoff level"?

Most league tennis is played at the non-playoff level. If you view everything through the gauzy haze of what happens at districts/sectionals/nationals, you will give out a lot of questionable advice that only pertains to a small percentage of USTA league players.

Will the two 3.5 players OP will face be "likely 4.0 in ability?" Most of the time, no. There are plenty of 7.0 mixed players who are at the lower or middle range of 3.5. You will probably do fine against all but the strongest 7.0 pairs. Against those strong pairs, you will lose but the sun will still come up the next day, I promise.

4.0 is when players start to become much more "competitive" and a lot less "social".

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Pardon?

Whether matches or teams are social or competitive depends on the local environment and team culture. There are plenty of individuals and teams at 3.0 and 3.5 that are very serious and competitive about their tennis, and there are easy-going, social 4.0 teams.

OP, I guess it all depends on how you define "social," but my experience at 7.0 was that everyone on the court wanted to win. From reading here at TT, I understand there are certain conventions that apply in league mixed (e.g. the guy should not crush his biggest shots at the woman at net unless she can volley), but you are perfectly within your rights to play to win.

And if you don't play to win on a team at the top of the standings, expect to be benched.

FWIW, I was bumped to 4.0, and that put an end to my 7.0 mixed career. I (and most of the 4.0 women I know) did not wish to play 7.0 mixed with a 3.0 partner. The reason is that we knew all balls would go to our partners. Some of us did not feel athletic enough to scramble and poach and somehow get in the point.

I do know one 4.0 woman who signed up for 7.0 mixed. She had a sandbagging 3.0 male partner, so they crushed the competition. The team earned a trip to sectionals. At that exact moment, the 3.0 male partner declined to attend or play any more mixed because he didn't like it. This left my friend sitting at home for sectionals because this guy was the only 3.0 guy on the team.

Hi,
I'll be playing mixed doubles this winter, for the first time in my tennis experience. I've heard from others that mixed leagues NTRP levels are different than that of a men's NTRP level. Is this true?

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If you've never played mixed before, you'll find that it's a different kind of tennis to 'regular' tennis. Partly is because of the dynamic of having mixed genders, but mostly IMO it's that the skill levels of the players on court vary by way more than in other leagues.

For example, and as other have pointed out, in 7.0 mixed you can have 3.0 male + 4.0 woman, 3.5 + 3.5, or 4.0 + 3.0.

If you as a 3.0 play with a 4.0 woman, then you and your partner would be somewhat close to one another in skills. A 3.0 man on average is slightly stronger than a 3.5 woman, but weaker than a 4.0 woman.

However, more common parnerships from what I've seen are 3.5 + 3.5, and 3.0 woman + 4.0 man. In fact it seems the latter is the most successful. And in this case, there is a huge difference in skill between the 3.0 woman and the 4.0 male.

As a result, much of the tactics in mixed revolve around keeping the ball away from the stronger opponent, and making the weaker opponent hit as many balls as possible.

This is in contrast with 'regular' tennis, where much of your shot selection is based on percentages and what shots you can make, rather than based on the individual strength / weakness of each your opponents.

Some people like the added dimension of having to adjust for different skill levels on court at the same time. Some (like me) don't, because it requires what I view as artificial shot selection rather than solid percentage play, and in general results in not very good tennis (again IMO).

And the NTRP difference cannot exceed 1.0 between players. You cant have a 4.5 and a 2.5 playing 7.0 for example.

What is your record at 3.0 mens like? If your record is bad, I wouldnt play 7.0 because your 4.0 girl partner is not going to enjoy playing with you lol. Remember, as a 3.0 man playing 7.0 mixed you're going to be expected to play "even" with a 4.0 woman and not be a "liability" against a 4.0 man on a competitive team.

If you're just playing for "fun" and your team is for "fun" then go ahead and test yourself in 7.0. If that team is a competitive, going-for-it, team, I wouldnt even think about it unless you're at least 80% wins in 3.0, preferably at doubles.

To put this into perspective, you will be up against two 3.5 players who are likely 4.0's in ability once you get to the playoff level. In order for a 3.0 man, 4.0 woman, combo to work, your girl is going to need to play "at level" (meaning 4.0) and you're going to have to play up, way up, to a strong 3.5 or better to stand a chance.

4.0 is when players start to become much more "competitive" and a lot less "social".

Here, mixed is one of the most competitive leagues there are. You have "3.0's for life" here who go to nationals on a regular basis who play mixed exclusively.

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My record this year in rated NTRP matches is 11 wins 4 losses, but I didn't get bumped up. I consider myself to be a strong 3.0. I want the matches to be competitive, i want to be driven to play better by my teammates. I feel like I'll be more challenged in 7.0 than 6.0.

Nah. A 3.0 guy playing mixed will be expected to play like a 3.0 guy playing mixed. He will not be expected to play "even" with a 4.0 woman. This is because she is essentially one USTA level stronger and will be way, way more consistent.

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A 3.0 man and a 4.0 woman playing mixed doubles are going to be the closest in skill level than any other combination possible. A 4.0 guy is going to be far superior to a 3.0 girl and since we know NTRP's are not gender biased a 3.5 man is going to be stronger than a 3.5 woman on average.

Also, doubles (especially mixed) is not about "consistency". Doubles is about setting up points and successfully closing out points.

No matter what the 3.0 guy does, he will be a "liability" against the 4.0 guy. On account of how a 4.0 guy is two full USTA levels above him. The 3.0guy/4.0woman pair can still win by ruthlessly targeting the 3.0 female opponent.

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Not a good 3.0 who is sticking to their guns and working as a team.

Sure, in singles the 4.0 would bagel the 3.0 guy all day long. In doubles, the 3.0 just has to not "lose points" or be "useless" and has to defer to his partner so she can finish the points. In singles, he doesnt have such a luxury.

-If the 3.0 can return the serve of the 4.0 without making careless errors or floating balls at the net he would be holding his own. He doent need to be able to rip BHDTL winners, but he has to be able to return the ball in the court without feeding balls.

-If the 3.0 can serve a decent ball without double faulting so that his net player is not getting killed by the 4.0's return, he would be holding his own. He doesnt need to serve aces, but he cant let the 4.0 just drill his partner without risk of error or double fault twice in a game.

The job of the 3.0 guy will be to get his serves in and keep the ball in play. He should know he will see most of the balls, and he shouldn't try to do more than he can comfortably do. The worst thing he can do is try to play even with the 4.0 gal or guy, because he will go down in a flaming blaze of UEs.

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That's exactly what "not be a liability" means.

He would get crushed on the singles court, but he can do much more on the doubles court by trying to set up his partner especially in areas where hes weak.

A playoff-bound team will probably not want many 4.0woman/3.0guy pairs. If you get on such a team, it will be fine if your expectations are appropriate. Unless you and your partner are both at the top of your rating levels, you won't play much.

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I'm at the top of my rating level and my partner is an ok 4.0. Although she went to 3.5 nationals for womens, she's been having a hard time in 4.0 womens which means we had a hard time in mixed.

We had an impressive year together. And we were the most dependable line out of all of the other lines. We lost in both playoff's however.

It's very hard being the 4.0 girl in a 7.0 combo. She was under a lot of pressure at net. My volleys are still terrible so my game was pretty much pound from the baseline and serve hard. I would only close in on balls she could not get to. I also stayed back to cover the lob, but after they see my overheads they didnt lob very much, lol.

The problem is, this type of brute force strategy doesnt work at high levels. They will just keep hitting balls at her and she could not put them away "almost every time" for the win. Even with this primitive strategy we still were very competitive even at the playoff level and completely demolished people in regular season play.

The bold part is the problem: Who said anything about "playoff level"?

Most league tennis is played at the non-playoff level. If you view everything through the gauzy haze of what happens at districts/sectionals/nationals, you will give out a lot of questionable advice that only pertains to a small percentage of USTA league players.

Will the two 3.5 players OP will face be "likely 4.0 in ability?" Most of the time, no. There are plenty of 7.0 mixed players who are at the lower or middle range of 3.5. You will probably do fine against all but the strongest 7.0 pairs. Against those strong pairs, you will lose but the sun will still come up the next day, I promise.

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Playoff level and above are what I consider the "real" level. It's the "benchmark" level and its averaged across the section/nation and is the greatest indicator of where you're at.

If I self rated as a 2.5 (or 5.0) I would be top of the district. Once I to go the section ill know exactly where im at. The same thing essentially applies to all ratings, its just that participation is more active in the middle levels.

Whether matches or teams are social or competitive depends on the local environment and team culture. There are plenty of individuals and teams at 3.0 and 3.5 that are very serious and competitive about their tennis, and there are easy-going, social 4.0 teams.

OP, I guess it all depends on how you define "social," but my experience at 7.0 was that everyone on the court wanted to win. From reading here at TT, I understand there are certain conventions that apply in league mixed (e.g. the guy should not crush his biggest shots at the woman at net unless she can volley), but you are perfectly within your rights to play to win.

And if you don't play to win on a team at the top of the standings, expect to be benched.

FWIW, I was bumped to 4.0, and that put an end to my 7.0 mixed career. I (and most of the 4.0 women I know) did not wish to play 7.0 mixed with a 3.0 partner. The reason is that we knew all balls would go to our partners. Some of us did not feel athletic enough to scramble and poach and somehow get in the point.

I do know one 4.0 woman who signed up for 7.0 mixed. She had a sandbagging 3.0 male partner, so they crushed the competition. The team earned a trip to sectionals. At that exact moment, the 3.0 male partner declined to attend or play any more mixed because he didn't like it. This left my friend sitting at home for sectionals because this guy was the only 3.0 guy on the team.

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The serious 4.0 players I know will bean you in a heartbeat if they have to. They dont care. If you hit a sitter and you're standing net between them and a winner they are going to hit you. This doesnt really seem to be the same attitude at 3.5 and below even on serious teams.

There are players of all levels that are "social" and there are players at all levels that are "serious".

I just see more 4.0+ players who "play to win" because most people 3.0's to 3.5's just play to be social.

My record this year in rated NTRP matches is 11 wins 4 losses, but I didn't get bumped up. I consider myself to be a strong 3.0. I want the matches to be competitive, i want to be driven to play better by my teammates. I feel like I'll be more challenged in 7.0 than 6.0.

Thanks for the advice all

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With that kinda record I would try it out.

It's a whole different game, but you seem like a decent 3.0 so I dont see any problems with it.

Playoff level and above are what I consider the "real" level. It's the "benchmark" level and its averaged across the section/nation and is the greatest indicator of where you're at.

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This could explain why we often disagree about what players at a particular level can do.

Consider this. In 2011, I was a 3.5C. I went to districts, sectionals and nationals. For 2012, I was a 4.0B.

I think it would be a mistake to say that in 2012 that I was at the "real level" of 4.0 because I was a 4.0B.

More accurate would be to say that in 2011, I was at the top of 3.5 even though I was a 3.5C. In 2012, I was at the very bottom of 4.0, even though I was a 4.0B.

So why is it that you keep suggesting that the playoff level is the real level?

This idea of considering benchmark ratings as the "real level" seems to be causing a lot of confusion and misstatements around here. People with B ratings are scattered throughout a particular level. In other words, if you gathered all of the 3.5B men in a room, you would find a wide range of ability. Some would be recent move-ups from 3.0, and others would be almost 4.0.

I would suggest 7.0 mixed. You will get to face 3.5 and 4.0 guys, and that will be fun. You will have a 4.0 female partner.

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I couldn't disagree more with Cindy on this.

If you are a legitimate 3.0 guy, don't play 7.0 mixed.

If you played 7.0 in our area, you will face 4.0 guys who also play up on 4.5 Men's teams, 8.5 and 9.5 combo (4.0 men with 5.5 men). We have a bunch of 4.0 men going to southern sectionals at 8.5 and 9.5 Combo. These are the 4.0 men playing 7.0 Mixed in our league year in and year out.

If your league doesn't have a bunch of strong 4.0 men, playing 7.0 Mixed, Cindy's suggestion might work. You would be destroyed in league with these type 4.0 men. The 4.0 guy will isolate you and hit to you as much as possible. The weaker player will see more balls.

If you are face 4.0 guys with strong 3.0 women, it isn't going to be fun for you at all.

My mixed 7.0 team went to state the last two years. The guys at state all play upper 3.5 or solid 4.0. Never faced a 3.0 guy at state. There is a reason 3.0 men don't play at 7.0 Mixed State.

Furthermore, if your doubles partner is primarily a single's player, you are at a further disadvantage.

If you have never played mixed before, set up a social match with a 30 year old athletic strong 4.0 guy / 30 year old 3.0 lady then tell us how much fun you had.

Being beat down 0&1 ain't much fun on either end.

I lost in a 22 team 7.0 Mixed tournament final yesterday 7-6, 6-0 to my teammate and his wife. He is a strong 4.0 and he blasted 12 aces in five service games. It was a blowout in the second set and no fun at all. It was my first time playing with this 3.5 lady, and we got lucky to make the finals.

I lost in a 22 team 7.0 Mixed tournament final yesterday 7-6, 6-0 to my teammate and his wife. He is a strong 4.0 and he blasted 12 aces in five service games. It was a blowout in the second set and no fun at all. It was my first time playing with this 3.5 lady, and we got lucky to make the finals.

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I always loved 7.0 mixed as an upper level 4.0. It was like killing flees with a bazooka when you played a 3.0 man / 4.0 woman.

I had one match where not one of my serves was returned in play ... it was a definite ego boost.

g4 - that has been my experience as well. on the other end anyway. i am a new bump up to 4.5 but in 7.5 mixed as the 4.0 guy, i pick on the 3.5 lady all day and often the 4.0 guy too if he's low to middle of the pack 4.0.

i think dizzl hit on this earlier but the single biggest thing that the ladies from 3.0 - 4.0 have trouble with is spin. topspin and slice. i think in regular women's leagues they just don't see enough of it so in mixed it's like kryptonite.

at 7.5 i would still love for the usta to let ladies play .5 lower so a 4.0 guy/4.0 lady could play a 4.5 lady/3.5 guy. i've seen some 4.5 women ball and while they don't usually hit with crazy pace, the consistency is really amazing. and then 3.5 guy might lack consistency but they also won't be fazed too much by pace and more importantly by spin. so the dubs would look more like dubs and not a silly game of keep away.

IME, people who are at the top of their level tend to try to play up rather than down when they have the choice. For this reason, guys who are strong 4.0s (bordering on 4.5) don't like to play 7.0 mixed. To them, it is kinda lame. They prefer 8.0 mixed. 7.0 mixed tends to attract the lower half of 4.0 men (not that there's anything wrong with that!).

My experience at 8.0 mixed bears this out. When I played 7.0 mixed as a 3.5 woman, I could hang with the 4.0 man well enough. I could return their serves, more or less. They tended not to take the net, and their volleys could be a bit dodgy. They were not bad players, mind you. Not at all.

When I got to 8.0 mixed, however, I got to see the upper end of 4.0 mixed.

I grant that your league could be different. So I agree that OP should ask around a bit and see just how many upper end 4.0 guys are playing 7.0 mixed. I'm thinking it won't be that many.

There may be a reason why our experiences differ so much: There are a lot of better playing opportunities here for strong 4.0 guys.

In DC Metro, many people play in VA, MD and DC at the same time. If a high 4.0 guy wants to join a team, he can have three teams just by playing 8.0 mixed (in addition to his three play opportunities in men's combo 8.5). Who has the time or interest to take on a seventh team by playing Xtreme Keepaway in 7.0 mixed.

IME, people who are at the top of their level tend to try to play up rather than down when they have the choice. For this reason, guys who are strong 4.0s (bordering on 4.5) don't like to play 7.0 mixed. To them, it is kinda lame. They prefer 8.0 mixed. 7.0 mixed tends to attract the lower half of 4.0 men (not that there's anything wrong with that!).

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I think you are correct here Cindy .... When I was playing 4.0 I was clearly the best 4.0 in the league at 7.0. None of my upper 4.0 peers would be caught dead playing 7.0 and I only did it because my good friend was captain and my partner was hot... err I mean a fine player. I got lots of snarky comments last season about how I should not be playing 7.0.

I suspect the best teams out there do manage to get top level 4.0 men playing ... but for the most part you could not pay my 4.0 contemporaries to play at the 7.0 level.

This could explain why we often disagree about what players at a particular level can do.

Consider this. In 2011, I was a 3.5C. I went to districts, sectionals and nationals. For 2012, I was a 4.0B.

I think it would be a mistake to say that in 2012 that I was at the "real level" of 4.0 because I was a 4.0B.

More accurate would be to say that in 2011, I was at the top of 3.5 even though I was a 3.5C. In 2012, I was at the very bottom of 4.0, even though I was a 4.0B.

So why is it that you keep suggesting that the playoff level is the real level?

This idea of considering benchmark ratings as the "real level" seems to be causing a lot of confusion and misstatements around here. People with B ratings are scattered throughout a particular level. In other words, if you gathered all of the 3.5B men in a room, you would find a wide range of ability. Some would be recent move-ups from 3.0, and others would be almost 4.0.

So why does it make sense to consider 3.5B the "real level?"

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The thing about the "B" rating is that it just means you advanced to a playoff that year. The "B" rating has nothing to do with a bump or staying at a level. If you're due for a bump, you will be bumped. If you advanced to a playoff, you will have a "B" rating.

B ratings really just have to do with a YER and nothing else. It just signifies that you advanced to a playoff the same way a "C" rating means you've played enough matches to lock in your rating.

I'm going to say most people who play tennis want to win. I really do think that most of the players who play just for "fun" and for "social" reasons do want to win to some extent.

Getting to a district playoff is a good indicator of top level play.

I'm going to say you're a top level 3.5 player because that is the level you "earned" your "B" rating at. You will just keep your "B" rating as a 4.0 because you also earned enough points to be bumped up a level.

i love mixed doubles because my regular hitting partner is a shot maker but most doubles players make the mistake of assuming she's the weaker player so they would hit the ball to her and pay the price

Getting to a district playoff does not mean top level play. It means either top level play, mid level play, or low level play.

Players who are not at the top of their level frequently play in the post-season. Captains sometimes put people into line-ups for reasons other than strength. If some top players are injured or unavailable, the captain will use someone weaker. Another example is if the team is eliminated from contention, the captain will often put in weak players so they will share the experience of post-season play.

Look at it this way. Let's say I captain a team that made it to Districts. At Districts, I find myself short on singles players. Even though I am a poor singles player, I might have to get out there and play singles. I would likely get destroyed. It would be nuts to say that my post-season participation was a "good indicator of high-level play." I mean, wouldn't you have to know my scores?

I mean, if you were putting a new team together and the only thing you knew about that player was that they played a match at Districts, would you assume the player would be strong for her rating level? I wouldn't.