June 15, 2016

"But on Monday, Mr. Trump’s television interviews and speeches made clear that such a pivot would never come," writes Maggie Haberman in The NYT, and I am trying to remember exactly how and what Trump promised. I have closely followed every single day of his campaign, and I don't have the sense of a promise.

I've heard a lot of people talk about the conventional notion of The Pivot to and around this most unconventional candidate, but if you want to pin him down as having promised to pivot — and promised to be softer, gentler, more refined — you need to lay out specific text.

Haberman does not do that. She merely presents the purported promise as a frame for her story about Trump's very strong rhetoric this week.

“Tonight we close one chapter in history and begin another,” the presumptive GOP nominee said.... “I understand the responsibility of carrying the mantle, and I will never ever let you down... I will make you proud of our party and our movement.”

I understand characterizing that as a promise, but there's wiggle room in "make you proud." One can arrive at feelings of pride many ways, and he may think that his whole campaign — with its central promise to Make America Great Again — is a march toward pride. His words accept the interpretation that he's going to keep going in a strong, tough manner and he expects the GOP will grow to like it. Someone who wants a softer, gentler candidate might hope that's his plan to "make you proud," but it's not a good bet and there's no basis to say that he's promised to go that route.

I'm adding tags to this post and see that I have one for "nice Trump." I'll have to publish this post so I can click on it and see if perhaps it turns up the elusive promise to pivot into something like soft gentleness.

ADDED: The "nice Trump" tag appears on 2 earlier posts. The first was on May 11th, when Trump said his call for a ban on Muslims coming into the country was "just a suggestion." I said,

I suspect all of his policy notions are subject to softening like that. If softening is called for. Hardening... he can do that too. As circumstances call for it.

That was no promise from him to be softer and nicer, just an observation from me that he's showing he's left room to become softer and gentler and he's not too locked into his toughness to do it if he chooses.

The other one came the next day, "When Trump met Ryan." The 2 men met and issued a joint statement, which you can read at the link. It doesn't contain any promises by Trump to pivot or become softer and gentler. The closest it comes is in saying "we are totally committed to working together" to unify the GOP and win the election. Maybe GOP insiders felt that he'd have to do it their way and their way is softer and gentler, but he's the one who's been winning and he's done it not only without their help, but in the face of their ungentle, unsoft, unrefined attacks.

IN THE COMMENTS: John Tuffnell said:

The photo they use is interesting. Trump is in the distance but unidentifiable because the focus is on another video feed that makes Trump appear as a blue ghost.

Blue Orbs
Blue is spiritually associated with psychic energy and truth. It is a very calming color, and many people associate it with spiritual guidance. Some people feel blue orbs are are sign of a calming presence or energy, while others feel they indicate the presence of a spirit guide in that location.

99 comments:

"if you want to pin him down as having promised to pivot . . . you need to lay out specific text" What do you mean, need to? And if they don't, the sanction is -- an I'm-shocked post on Althouse? NYT doesn't play nice. Law prof rules don't apply (of course, they don't apply even among law profs). Progs need no proof. Anything goes, as long as it serves the cause.

WALLACE: ...you did poorly among voters who decided in the last week. And I wonder if you think those flaps hurt you. Do you need to tone it down, you think, as you become the frontrunner for the nomination? To act more presidential?

The photo they use is interesting. Trump is in the distance but unidentifiable because the focus is on another video feed that makes Trump appear as a blue ghost.

So the internets tell me that colors mean things in the paranormal world. Here's what blue ghosts are supposed to mean:

Blue OrbsBlue is spiritually associated with psychic energy and truth. It is a very calming color, and many people associate it with spiritual guidance. Some people feel blue orbs are are sign of a calming presence or energy, while others feel they indicate the presence of a spirit guide in that location.

The problem this week is not the dead people in Orlando, the FBI's bunging of the investigation - twice - of the gunman before the attacks, or the president's mealy-mouthed response which caused him to have to respond again to his mealy-mouthedness.

Poor Paul Ryan. He must be so embarrassed by not stopping a Pro-American fighter when for the last 20 years he has carefully constructed a Globalist Borderless wholley owned subsidiary of The Koch Brothers.

Pivot or die, Trump! This is your last warning, unlike the first 25 warnings that we did not really mean. The Washington Post is now the point of the spear. And we will kill you.

You substituted the word "presidential," but that's changing the idea a bit. It's subject to interpretation, what's "presidential." He may think the kind of toughness he's displaying this week is what's presidential.

And it's not a promise. He's talking about what he "thinks" he'll be and what he "probably" "needs" to do.

He's used to negotiation, remember. Anyone in a negotiation hearing words like that would be a fool to think he's got a promise. He's cagey. His words seem blunt, but I think he knows the finesse he's using and people who come away thinking they've got a contract are mistaken.

That was found in less than 15 secs by searching for "donald trump more presidential".

6/15/16, 8:53 AM

I've just got so say, the Orlando attack has set off shear panic.

It's amazing how the deadliest shooting in US history committed by a Muslim Gay Registered Democrat who had pledged allegiance to ISIS can finally focus Obama, Democrats, and the Press on the real enemy: Donald Trump.

Trump's still being attacked from ninety seven angles so now is not the appropriate time to lay down and lose with respect like the rest of the Republicans usually do.

Yes, they want Trump to Pivot, but have you noticed that now Hillary has Pivoted herself. Her rhetoric toward Trump is getting angrier and more outlandish. What Trump is doing/saying is what his supporters want, not the "Elites" and "talkingheads". As the commercial use to say, he is doing it his way.

"According to a series of interviews Trump has given in recent days, the speech was part of a broader pivot to a more, well, traditional presidential campaign. "The campaign is evolving and transitioning, and so am I," he told the Wall Street Journal. "I'll be more effective and more disciplined."

Trump put it another way during a Thursday morning appearance on NBC's Today Show. "I will be so presidential," he said, "you will be so bored. You'll say, 'Can't he have a little more energy?'"

This is from an NPR story in late April (http://www.npr.org/2016/04/21/475126907/shows-over-trump-pledges-to-be-so-presidential-you-will-be-so-bored)

He specifically identifies being presidential with being displined and having less energy.

The Episcopal church in Scotland was considered by itself to be "softer, gentler, more refined" than the Presbyterian Church and with a mission to civilize it, according to a history written in 1879. That is the only time the complete phrase was used till the NYT attempted to put the words in Donald Trump's mouth. I suppose in New York he is now viewed as some sort of barbarian, hammering energetically at the gates while the epicene court sits around wondering whether they can "civilize" him. Perhaps they secretly see him as some kind of solution to the problems they have made and cannot solve without changing, and changing is something they cannot imagine. As Cavafy, the poet, put it during a previous crisis:

Why have our two consuls and praetors come out todaywearing their embroidered, their scarlet togas?Why have they put on bracelets with so many amethysts,and rings sparkling with magnificent emeralds?Why are they carrying elegant canesbeautifully worked in silver and gold?

Because the barbarians are coming today and things like that dazzle the barbarians.

Why don’t our distinguished orators come forward as usualto make their speeches, say what they have to say?

Because the barbarians are coming today and they’re bored by rhetoric and public speaking.

Why this sudden restlessness, this confusion?(How serious people’s faces have become.)Why are the streets and squares emptying so rapidly,everyone going home so lost in thought?

Because night has fallen and the barbarians have not come. And some who have just returned from the border say there are no barbarians any longer.

And now, what’s going to happen to us without barbarians?They were, those people, a kind of solution.

Miriam said...Trump promised to pivot into something that resembles Presidential. It wasn't about being kinder and gentler. He hasn't pivoted to anything nearly resembling Presidential.

6/15/16, 9:23 AM"

Maryam after seven and half years Obama still hasn't pivoted into anything resembling an American never mind an American president. In the meantime is Mr. Bow and Scrape meeting with his Saudi handler? Is his presumptive replacement agent still receiving campaign funding from her Saudi masters? Real Americans want to know.

You're being Clintonian. Look at the way Wallace asked the question. "Tone it down" is parallel to "presidential". And "tone it down" and "presidential" both sound like "softer, gentler, more refined".

It was Habermann that used the word "promise". Perhaps she misunderstood Trump's intentions, but I think there's a pretty decent sized group of moderate Republicans who heard what she heard, that Trump was planning to act more dignified after the primaries were over. That's what he told Wallace in the interview above and he made similar statements elsewhere.

Watching Obama's flashing eyes and hearing his bitter tone yesterday made me crawl back on the Trump train. I had slithered off when he called again for a Muslim ban (modified) and other mis-steps. Life off the train is far easier: you don't have to defend the guy's every move, you don't have to pretend he's playing 3D chess when it's more likely 1D farting.

But then comes our president with a sinister, angry, partisan -- unbelievably partisan for a president -- rant, and Trump suddenly seems reassuring and leaderly, if not "presidential" in the classic sense.

It’s not going to matter whether or not the party “leadership” endorses Trump. There’s quite a few of us who are sick and tired of the party “leadership.”

I’ll admit that the GOP “leadership” is in somewhat of a quandary. They’ve already tried to sabotage his campaign and to assist the MSM/Democrats in their effort to brand Trump a racist. But that did not work too well. I would not be surprised if they were surprised at the anger among their GOP constituents in their home districts after their initial railing against their party’s nominee. You know, the nominee who has set records in voter participation, getting more primary votes than any GOP nominee in history?

On the one hand, as always they are eager to please their MSM allies. But on the other hand if they continue to oppose Trump they are going to piss off a bunch of folks who voted for Trump. I’m writing this with the assumption that they want to win the election – which is NOT a safe assumption considering their behavior past and present.

Look, we should not pay much attention to claims about Trump that come from the MSM. To paraphrase Mary McCarthy, “Every word they write is a lie, including ‘and’ and ‘the.’ ”

"Donald J. Trump has repeatedly promised a 'pivot' toward a softer, gentler, more refined version of his candidacy since he emerged as the presumptive Republican nominee

This looks to be totally untrue. I don't think Trump has REPEATEDLY PROMISED to pivot to being softer, gentler or more refined. Is there a quote of him saying he would act or be softer? Gentler? Start off with BS, proceed with more BS.

I thought that people loved Trump because he told it like it was without playing BS political word games.

It would appear people are now applauding his negotiation abilities, primarily his ability to use weasel words to imply what he doesn't mean. That doesn't seem to jive with his 'tells it like it is without pulling punches' image.

You can't have it both ways. Either he uses language to trick people or he is a truth teller.

Trumps gonna Trump whether we like it or not. He's gonna say lots of loud, outragous things. He's gonna say one thing one day and a different thing the next. I'm not going to even attempt to try to defend him on all these statements.

So he said he'd become more "presidential" at some unspecified point, defining "presidential" as being boring and low energy. And he hasn't yet? Is anyone surprised by that?

At any rate, if certain polls are to be believed there's no way he can win, right?

In Hillary we have a shady plutocrat with a highly questionable history, a highly questionable term as Secretary of State, who runs a highly questionable ostensibly charitable organization that's raised vast sums of money from highly questionable sources. And on top of all that it seems highly likely that she's an essentially unconvicted criminal who put her own convenience ahead of National Security for years and years.

So there you go. Your choice is between a loud braggart and a dangerous criminal. Personally I'll go with the loud braggart.

Ah Maggie; Trump made you a "promise". I don't want to go all Laslo Spatula here, but you sound like the 16 year old girl who lets the high school bad boy have his wicked way with her, because she thought he made a "promise" that he would love her forever. Get over your own self. Promises of that sort made are rarely kept; and it was an imaginary promise, a figment of your wishes and hopes anyway. I thought that the New York Times had an emotional minimum age requirement for folks they hired.

Cynic that I am, Maggie is probably a little older than that; she's just posturing here because it helps her spin the correct narrative. Trump makes promise to Maggie; Trump breaks promise to Maggie. We get it--and besides we know that Trump is the high school bad boy anyway. Maggie is just playing the role of one more discarded and disappointed girl.

"I've heard a lot of people talk about the conventional notion of The Pivot to and around this most unconventional candidate, but if you want to pin him down as having promised to pivot — and promised to be softer, gentler, more refined — you need to lay out specific text.

Haberman does not do that. She merely presents the purported promise as a frame for her story about Trump's very strong rhetoric this week. "

Exactly. She's not trying to pin him down on a promise.

She's trying to have a long conversation about how hard-line, extreme, and boorish Donald Trump is. And she's succeeding.

It's very much the Trump tactic turned back around on him -- saying outrageous things to drive the conversation.

A promise? In politics? What good is that, anyway? Nobody broke more promises than the current two time winner.

Trump needs to pivot, or he will lose. If he does it right, he could win big, but time is running out. The needed pivot has nothing to do with apologizing, or getting soft, or feminizing. He just needs to convince people on the fence that he's not dangerous and stupid. People will even vote for openly corrupt over dangerous and stupid. That's gonna be the defining battle lines for the undecided voters.

Seems like the real question is not whether he is going to pivot into something more presidential or if. I see two other questions:

1) When is he going to pivot? As someone quoted him saying above "Yea, I think I'll be very presidential at the appropriate time." So perhaps the appropriate time has not yet come? Some may think the "appropriate time" is sometime in the past. Others may think it is sometime in the future. Perhaps Trump feels that it is after he is elected?

2) What is appropriate presidential behavior? Different people, including Trump, may have different opinions about this. Perhaps Trump has already pivoted and we just disagree about what appropriate behavior is.

I think we left the gravitational field of truth in journalism some time ago. Instead of having any controlling interest in facts, journalism, which includes opinion journalism, has become instead nothing more than traffic in voyeurism, eyeballs on the hot patch of the moment, pornography for those at the time uninterested in sex. The media are still reporting the Orlando shooter used an AR, which they believe stands for "Assault Rifle". He didn't, and it doesn't even if he had, but what difference, at this point, does it make?

Unknown claims that "no other President" has had a higher approval rating at this stage of his term as President Four Putt with is 55 percent approval. Well unknown also apparently doesn't know how to use Google.

Reagan had a 63% approval rating in June, 88, and a 68% approval rating in November 88. [This from a quick look at Gallup Poll numbers.} Somehow I don't think Obama will reach those numbers. But Unknown--keep on truckin' on the Obama Train.

I think the "promise" is what he - or rather actually people associated with his campaign - told people at the Republican National Commmittee, or high ranking Republican in Congress, in private meetings discussed with reporters, and in once at least, heard on a recording given to a reporter;.

HOLLYWOOD, Fla. (AP) — His general-election appeal in question, Donald Trump's senior team is promising anxious Republicans that voters will see "a real different way" soon after the GOP front-runner claims his party's presidential nomination.

"When he's out on the stage, when he's talking about the kinds of things he's talking about on the stump, he's projecting an image that's for that purpose," Paul Manafort, who is leading Trump's primary election strategy, told Republican National Committee members in a private briefing late Thursday. The Associated Press obtained a recording of the discussion.

"You'll start to see more depth of the person, the real person. You'll see a real different way," Manafort said.

"He gets it," Manafort said of Trump's need to moderate his brash personality. "The part that he's been playing is evolving into the part that now you've been expecting, but he wasn't ready for, because he had first to complete the first phase. The negatives will come down. The image is going to change."

16:16:47 TRUMP: People say, why are you doing this? That's sort of maybe the reason we're doing it. It's make America great again. But Ivanka said, dad, on the final debate, be very presidential. I've done great in the debates. I've won, according to "Drudge" and everybody else, I've won all of the debates, every single one of them -- be presidential. I said, look, if somebody hits me, I have to hit them back. I have to. I'm not going to stand there and be like, oh, I'm wonderful, I'm a president. I want to win. And I'll be so presidential you won't believe it. I will be the most boring...

VAN SUSTEREN: What does that mean to be presidential to you?

TRUMP: Well, it means maybe not be so aggressive, maybe not get so personal. But when people get personal with me, I mean they say, oh, they don't like my hair, OK.

(LAUGHTER)

16:17:25 TRUMP: Now, if I ever said I didn't like their hair, it would be a hardline -- he's so bad. But they're allowed to say whatever they want about me. Look, we started out with people hitting -- and my hair is not that bad, is it? There's no way -- it's not that bad. I mean -- and it is my hair. But -- but you know what happens? What happens is they hit me and I hit them back harder. And usually, I mean almost in all cases, they do it first. But they hit me and I hit them back harder and they disappear. And that's what we want to lead the country. But I promise you, let me finish it off. I will be so presidential. Greta, you will be so proud of me. You know, I'm a smart guy. Being presidential is easy. But you may get very bored.

VAN SUSTEREN: All right...

TRUMP: You won't want to interview me anymore.

(LAUGHTER)

VAN SUSTEREN: All right, what does that mean, uh, you're going to stop Tweeting?

16:18:10 TRUMP: Well, I don't think so. No, I'll -- I'll tell you what. Look, this is a modern form. It's like owning my own newspaper. You know, I have now Twitter, seven and a half million people picking up hundreds of thousands of people in a short period of time, seven and a half. With Facebook, I have like close to seven million or more than seven million people. With Instagram, we have like two million. So I have like 16, 17 million people. That's my -- that's like owning "The New York Times" without the losses. Why should I give it up?

(LAUGHTER)

TRUMP: Why should I give it up, right?

VAN SUSTEREN: Even as president, as president?

TRUMP: As president, I would take it differently. Yes, I would agree with that. No, as president, I think I'd be very much different on that. I wouldn't be doing it much. Now, Obama does it a little bit, but -- and not that I want to use him as an example. That's some example.

(LAUGHTER)

TRUMP: But -- but as president, I would probably not be doing it, maybe not be doing it at all. But I have -- I have millions and millions of people and they rely on it. They love it. And I think it's one of the reasons, frankly, I'm doing so well. You know, as you understand, when you introduced me, you said candidate, but I'm really by far the frontrunner, OK? By far.

Donald Trump's senior team is promising anxious Republicans that voters will see "a real different way" soon after the GOP front-runner claims his party's presidential nomination.

Thanks for the link. I think Trump & perhaps Manafort could argue in all honesty that Trump doesn't claim his party's presidential nomination until after he is nominated at the Republican convention. And, for whatever it's worth, non committed (& noncommittal) voters don't start to pay attention until then, anyway.

Trump has tapped into a pool of raw anger, and that anger will probably take him into the Oval Office and behind the Resolute Desk. Why would he change?

You want to see angry? Go into Appalachia and ask a coal miner what he thinks of the Democrats.

How about gays who realize that when it comes to appeasing Muslims they and their friends are "acceptable collateral damage" as far as Democrats are concerned?

Find someone whose teenager can't get a summer job mowing lawns or flipping burgers because illegal (oops! make that "undocumented") immigrants have taken all those jobs and you might find some anger there. Note that Paul Ryan doesn't much get it -- his you can bet that Liza, Charlie, and Sam Ryan won't be hurting for summer jobs when they're old enough!

I'm not happy about Donald Trump, but I do get where he draws his strength.

WALLACE: ...you did poorly among voters who decided in the last week. And I wonder if you think those flaps hurt you. Do you need to tone it down, you think, as you become the frontrunner for the nomination? To act more presidential?

I wonder if or when Twitter, having simply suspended the accounts of Milo Yiannopoulos and others who say things they don't like will finally say, fuck it, and suspend Trump's as well, betting that they might score more new business from deliriously happy liberals than they might lose from conservatives.

And, to get the Trumpsters blood raging, Obama's approval rating is at an all time high of 55%.

Ah, yes, the polls. I have to admit that the Gallup polls have me scratching my head. On the one hand, Gallup says that Obama's job approval is 53%, but on the other hand the same Gallup polls show only 29% of American adults say are satisfied with "the way things are going in the United States at this time." Even Democrats have fewer than half (45%) satisfied with "the way things are going in the United States at this time." Do people think that "the way things are going in the United States at this time" is disconnected from Barack Obama? Or does Gallup phrase its question on the order of "do you approve of the job Barack Obama is doing in the White House or are you a racist." Not many other ways to explain these polls.

The blame seems to lay squarely on Congress as to dissatisfaction in the way the country is going. Obama can only do what he is legally able to do as Executive. He's already overstepped his authority in some people's eyes.

The leftist media focusing on Trump rather than focusing on what is being done to address the growing danger of ISIS inspired terrorism on American soil, is an indication of how screwed up their priorities are. They make it clear to all listening, that to them the enemy is Trump and the Americans he represents, not the Islamic terrorists who issue threats to Americans.

The media did the same thing to Romney after Benghazi, link ; they attacked him for "politicizing" the event, which lead the focus away from assigning responsibility or blame to Obama or Clinton, and it helped get Obama reelected. They are probably expecting that tactic will work again. However Trump isn't Romney; he's not afraid to punch back.

"@Lance Exactly. A few seconds on Google will find a ton of stuff to support "pivot" but it will not be enough evidence for this Trumpfest forum."

As I said, people talk about pivoting in relation to Trump. But where did he promise to pivot to softness, gentleness, and refinement. I don't care about "tons." I care about a specific quote that came from Trump. Has anyone coughed it up yet?

Mark said...Cubanbob seems to have forgotten the 'unskewed' polls of 4 years ago, lol

6/15/16, 10:36 AM"

Mark has forgotten the 'unskewed polls' of 2000. The Republicans to be sure don't have the best of all possible candidates but then again their's isn't a criminal and a traitor. Do tell us why you think supporting a criminal and traitor trumps Trumps.

"You're being Clintonian. Look at the way Wallace asked the question. "Tone it down" is parallel to "presidential". And "tone it down" and "presidential" both sound like "softer, gentler, more refined"."

1. I don't care what Wallace said. I care what Trump said.

2. There is no promise.

3. Trump reserves control over the meaning of "presidential."

4. It's not Clintonian, which I take to be a reference to "it depends on what the meaning of is is." Clinton was talking about something that happened in the past, under oath and required to tell the truth about what happened, and reflecting on his own prior statement, looking for an out. Trump was talking about what he thought he might/should do in the future. He was vague and kept his options open. He's good at talking about things in the future, because that is like negotiation.

5. You can tone something down without becoming "soft."

6. Even if you do generally want to tone things down, when something terrible and outrageous happens, you need speech that goes with that context. Otherwise you come off like Nurse Ratched.

Re: tons of google search results. To paraphrase Einstein--if he said it, you wouldn't need "tons." One would be enough.

The particular Wallace excerpt has Trump suggesting he will make some undefined change at some unspecified point in the future. That is very far from a promise to pivot to softer, gentler, and more refined.

So what happened while I was outside painting. Oh! PB&J writes that math is hard. For him certainly, and also comprehension of reality. My bachelor's degree in mathematics (my postgraduate degrees are in a different field) says that some of us deal with it very well.

Barack Obama has issued regulations that contravene legislation passed by Congress, and has fundamentally emasculated the institution. But PB&J wants to blame Congress anyway. Note to Paul Ryan -- Lefties are going to blame you whether you resist Obama and square around rogue agencies run amok, or whether you continue to roll over the way you have been. So stop rolling already.

Unknown said...@Lance Exactly. A few seconds on Google will find a ton of stuff to support "pivot" but it will not be enough evidence for this Trumpfest forum.

That kind of steel trap logic and avalanche of evidence would certainly have convinced any and all of her liberal friends! A single one of those links would suffice, but, and here's the rub, it will probably return a bunch of opinion pieces that agree with Unknown, but not one of which, it would seem, has any actual evidence to support it.