No they can't file taxes. It's being deducted from their paychecks by their employer. Are you done yet?

o5iiawah:Yes Air and water. And police, fire, medical, roads, the military and the courts. All of that stuff costs money does it not?

Something something payroll, sales taxes, and a variety of usage fees that can't be opted out. Not everything comes from the Fed. But I guess we can try to charge Mexico and Canada for the right to breathe our excess air. At least what the illegals don't steal by respiration.

No they can't file taxes. It's being deducted from their paychecks by their employer. Are you done yet?

o5iiawah: Yes Air and water. And police, fire, medical, roads, the military and the courts. All of that stuff costs money does it not?

Something something payroll, sales taxes, and a variety of usage fees that can't be opted out. Not everything comes from the Fed. But I guess we can try to charge Mexico and Canada for the right to breathe our excess air. At least what the illegals don't steal by respiration.

o5iiawah:I made it along with several other points that Fart_machine chooses to ignore. When he cant answer me, he just plays the strawman card even though I am pretty convinced he isn't actually sure what that means in the first place.

o5iiawah:Fart_Machine will go 100 rounds saying that by simply existing and breathing in this country, you owe a pound of flesh to fund clean air, clean water, schools, police, fire, military, courts and a basic way of life and if you dont like it, move to Somalia.

As a green card holder, i'd just like to point out that the difference between a green card and citizenship is fairly minimal, particularly when you compare it to the difference between undocumented status and a green card.

If this is the compromise they want, I'm sure most would be fine with it.

I'm an American living in Switzerland, a country with one of the highest wages in the world. For example, minimum wage is roughly $25/hour. Much of the produce is grown locally (the Swiss are remarkably protective of their farms and farmers) and costs, while somewhat higher than the US, are not unreasonable.

Costs for fresh, Swiss-grown fruits and vegetables are maybe 20-30% higher than in the US. US agriculture has enormous economies of scale: many farms in the US are large-scale, factory farms while farms in Switzerland tend to be smaller, family-run farms. It seems quite likely that even if wages for farm works in the US increased significantly, there'd be only a small change in prices to buyers of fruits and vegetables.

If having to pay a few extra cents for fruits and vegetables, which are already incredibly inexpensive, means that farm workers can earn a decent living I for one have no problem with that.

Little known fact: between the hours of 6pm and 6am the House doubles as an (invitation only of course) high stakes casino. The seating can be easily converted to blackjack and craps tables and the podiums become million dollar jackpot slot machines. Some people have a problem with this, but that's only because they do not get to take part and are just jealous.

Little known fact: between the hours of 6pm and 6am the House doubles as an (invitation only of course) high stakes casino. The seating can be easily converted to blackjack and craps tables and the podiums become million dollar jackpot slot machines. Some people have a problem with this, but that's only because they do not get to take part and are just jealous.

It is amazing to me to see the argument about undocumented immigrants not paying their fair share in taxes in this thread. Where is the outrage about companies that pay either no or essentially no taxes? The outrage at hedge fund managers who pay substantially less as a percentage of their income than wage slaves in America, through the carried interest loophole?

sdd2000:It is amazing to me to see the argument about undocumented immigrants not paying their fair share in taxes in this thread. Where is the outrage about companies that pay either no or essentially no taxes? The outrage at hedge fund managers who pay substantially less as a percentage of their income than wage slaves in America, through the carried interest loophole?

Because those rich people* who aren't paying their fair share of taxes are rich and white, while those other people who aren't paying their fair share of taxes are dirty brown people. I hope this now makes sense to you.

Weaver95:And if/when someone complains or fights against such heavy handed authoritarian thinking, the GOP screams bloody murder, claims that 'libruls don't fight fair' and then cheats like a bunch of mofos to get their way. any protest - ANY objection, no matter how reasonable or well considered, is considered a direct personal attack by each and every republican in the hierarchy. at the same time, protesters are also considered laughable, weak and dismissed as having bought their ipads from mommy and daddy and are to be given a cookie and sent home with a firm push on the shoulder.

hubiestubert:And it's not like states ever use sales taxes. I mean, they just collect it, and it goes into the ether. It just disappears. It's not like illegals ever buy anything, after all...

Local sales taxes have nothing to do with the funding of certain federal programs which provide services that all citizens enjoy. The military doesn't get its paychecks from Bed Bath and beyond charging you 7% tax on a comforter. That goes to your state or town which has nothing to do with the argument at hand. So there's that.

Fart_Machine:Something something payroll, sales taxes, and a variety of usage fees that can't be opted out. Not everything comes from the Fed. But I guess we can try to charge Mexico and Canada for the right to breathe our excess air. At least what the illegals don't steal by respiration.

Yes, but we dont export our system of legal protections, patent laws, military, education and homeland security apparatus to Canada.You still wont answer me on who pays for everything else.

You see, not everything comes from the fed. That is why I differentiated every tax statement with things provided by the federal government and prefaced every tax argument with federal income tax. You also asked about the payroll tax (Which funds social security) so please explain how this is paid by someone without a social security number who gets cash under the table from their boss who reports false names, SS numbers, hours and wages.

Im aware that there are local sales taxes. Good thing I never once argued that illegal immigrants dont pay local sales taxes.Or do you not know the difference between local sales taxes, the payroll tax or the federal income tax? I'm beginning to think no.

Calling it 'Trolling' is code for "I'm being a petulant prick and cant answer so even though he asked about how the military gets paid, blah blah blah Canada steals air"

And you (much like myself) already realize that is why the Republicans won't allow immigration reform to pass. They like it just the way it is, where a company can hire on illegal aliens for pennies on the dollar (which also helps to drive down wages for American workers), then either have INS come in and ship them home should they try to argue for rights, or just keep them in what is nothing more than modern day slavery.

Businesses like it just the way it is. They get a cheap source of labor, and one that they truly hold every bit of power over and can do with as they please.

o5iiawah:Local sales taxes have nothing to do with the funding of certain federal programs which provide services that all citizens enjoy. The military doesn't get its paychecks from Bed Bath and beyond charging you 7% tax on a comforter. That goes to your state or town which has nothing to do with the argument at hand. So there's that.

Because the military is preventing that inevitable invasion by Russia North Korea you saw in Red Dawn. Virtually all of our military engagements are overseas and have nothing to do with protecting the US. Try again.

o5iiawah:You also asked about the payroll tax (Which funds social security) so please explain how this is paid by someone without a social security number who gets cash under the table from their boss who reports false names, SS numbers, hours and wages.

Do you believe that the boss who reports those false names, SS numbers, hours and wages pays the taxes on that from the goodness of their own heart or do they still extract it from the wages of the illegals.

o5iiawah:Calling it 'Trolling' is code for "I'm being a petulant prick and cant answer so even though he asked about how the military gets paid, blah blah blah Canada steals air"

No calling it trolling is when you make an obvious strawman argument "blah, blah, pound of flesh, move to Somalia" only to knock it down and then claim you don't understand what a strawman is. The other alternative is that you're an idiot. So far the jury is out.

o5iiawah:Yes, but we dont export our system of legal protections, patent laws, military, education and homeland security apparatus to Canada.You still wont answer me on who pays for everything else.

Um yes we do. As an ally we export all of those things either directly (if someone from Canada violates the law on US soil or US workers who work in Canada) or indirectly (by sharing our intelligence and we certainly would defend Canada with our military should the need arise). Any other stupid comments you'd like to make?

Buy yes, I did answer you and several others have answered as well. Just because it doesn't fit what you'd like to hear in that echo chamber you live in doesn't make it not answer.

skilbride:Infernalist: Just curious, are you against citizens sending money to family overseas, or are you just against illegal immigrants doing it?

I'm against citizens doing it as well, but citizens tend to do it at a much lower rate for two reasons:

1. The majority of citizens have their family here.2. The majority of citizens who come here legally tend to do it with entire families. (They bring their grandmothers and grandfathers with them.)

The problem with one guy jumping a fence, hopping on a boat, or sneaking on a plane is that often he's not bringing his children, his wife, his mother here with him. He's making money in this country not to save to bring them over (because he doesn't have a legal means to do so) but to make enough to set them up with a better situation in their home country.

I mean, DC has a large problem with this. (Really any area that has a lot of construction or overly wealthy people does.) In the course of my studies I spend a significant amount of time talking to people at the day labor center and most of them were looking at this as a stop gap to going back home. They only wanted to raise enough money to get them in a better position in their country.

You clearly have never talked to immigrants from the first half of the 20th century. The general behavior was someone comes over, finds work, finds they can make it here, and they'd send for their family. We've created a set of stupid rules that prevents that.

Here's the rules as it should be:

Show up, sign up, start working.

Yup, get your SS#, declare yourself a US citizen and get to work.

Anything else is stupid. The only time there should be limits is if you want to show up and not be a US citizen. Then you have to get a work visa. Otherwise come on in, bring the family too when you can.

clambam:"The House answer would not be 'a special pathway to citizenship where people who are here unlawfully get something that people who have worked for decades to immigrate lawfully do not have,' he said."

You know, they always bring this up and, given that for the repubs the plural of anecdote is data, I would like to hear of an example, one single farking example, of someone who patiently waited for decades to immigrate lawfully into the United States. That person does not exist and never has. Legal immigrants are either wealthy white Europeans or people with special skills and talents who can get a green card. The poor huddled masses yearning to be free are shiat out of luck unless they climb a fence or skip out on a student or tourist visa.

I was born in PI and my family moved to the states when i was 3. we came here legally, my aunt on my mom's side was citizen and sponsored our family. we finally got our green cards when i was 13 and had to wait another 5 years before we could apply for citizenship. since i was 18 i had to apply for citizenship on my own. after a bunch of paperwork, interviews, tests and years and years and years and years of just simply waiting, i was finally sworn in as a citizen 09/24/2009, i was 27. so it took me over 20 years to become a citizen.

I was born in PI and my family moved to the states when i was 3. we came here legally, my aunt on my mom's side was citizen and sponsored our family. we finally got our green cards when i was 13 and had to wait another 5 years before we could apply for citizenship. since i was 18 i had to apply for citizenship on my own. after a bunch of paperwork, interviews, tests and years and years and years and years of just simply waiting, i was finally sworn in as a citizen 09/24/2009, i was 27. so it took me over 20 years to become a citfamilies route to immigration have been?

Without the sponsoring aunt, what would your families path to immigration have looked like?

DeusFlac:clambam: "The House answer would not be 'a special pathway to citizenship where people who are here unlawfully get something that people who have worked for decades to immigrate lawfully do not have,' he said."

You know, they always bring this up and, given that for the repubs the plural of anecdote is data, I would like to hear of an example, one single farking example, of someone who patiently waited for decades to immigrate lawfully into the United States. That person does not exist and never has. Legal immigrants are either wealthy white Europeans or people with special skills and talents who can get a green card. The poor huddled masses yearning to be free are shiat out of luck unless they climb a fence or skip out on a student or tourist visa.

I was born in PI and my family moved to the states when i was 3. we came here legally, my aunt on my mom's side was citizen and sponsored our family. we finally got our green cards when i was 13 and had to wait another 5 years before we could apply for citizenship. since i was 18 i had to apply for citizenship on my own. after a bunch of paperwork, interviews, tests and years and years and years and years of just simply waiting, i was finally sworn in as a citizen 09/24/2009, i was 27. so it took me over 20 years to become a citizen.

No, it took you nine years to become a citizen because from the age of 3 to 18 you could not become a citizen in any case. It took you less than ten years, certainly not "decades," How long did your parents wait? I presume they became citizens before you did. Nobody's suggesting illegal aliens show up at the local courthouse and get sworn in as citizens. My guess is that their wait will be about as long as yours was.