2014 Genesis Sedan: Spied in Korea

Acura4ever:full RWD/AWD lineup or not, they still suck. Acuras RLX is still compared to the midsize Germans. and bplease, the equus failed in the segment they claim it competes in, an s class buyer just can't even pronounce the name hunday, that is if they even know it exists.

Acura and Infiniti still have their flagships to compete against the 5-series, so no matter how you put it, your arguement is irrelevant and just down right stupid.

even the FWD TL handle better than a RWD equus/genesis. you can base the car on a RWD platform, but doesn't make it a successful premium car, just a nice try and a baby step on the dream track.

How about we realize that the CURRENT Genesis and Equus are much larger traditional luxury sedans as opposed to the TLs mid sized mainstream FWD origins. The TL is most certainly not as plush as either nor does it have as much space so fail. The TL is Sportier than the E-Class(at least in non AMG trims) so that means nothing. The TL was designed as a Sport Luxury sedan...the Equus and Genesis were not. The NEW Genesis however was designed from the get go as a Sport Luxury sedan so we will have to wait on that.

But why compare the much smaller TL to these when it is the RL that is a more closer competitor. I guess you already realized the RL was beyond irreverent for comparison purposes. Hell the TL can out handle the standard LS, 7-Series and S-Class...

The RL and M are worthless in the mid size field and lose terribly to everything in the class.

The sad thing is people are more comfortable with the idea of a $65k HYUNDAY than a $55k ACKRA...
_______________Your choices are white and of course black___________________

Acura4ever:full RWD/AWD lineup or not, they still suck. Acuras RLX is still compared to the midsize Germans. and bplease, the equus failed in the segment they claim it competes in, an s class buyer just can't even pronounce the name hunday, that is if they even know it exists.

Acura and Infiniti still have their flagships to compete against the 5-series, so no matter how you put it, your arguement is irrelevant and just down right stupid.

even the FWD TL handle better than a RWD equus/genesis. you can base the car on a RWD platform, but doesn't make it a successful premium car, just a nice try and a baby step on the dream track.

GemLeKiH:How about we realize that the CURRENT Genesis and Equus are much larger traditional luxury sedans as opposed to the TLs mid sized mainstream FWD origins. The TL is most certainly not as plush as either nor does it have as much space so fail. The TL is Sportier than the E-Class(at least in non AMG trims) so that means nothing. The TL was designed as a Sport Luxury sedan...the Equus and Genesis were not. The NEW Genesis however was designed from the get go as a Sport Luxury sedan so we will have to wait on that.

But why compare the much smaller TL to these when it is the RL that is a more closer competitor. I guess you already realized the RL was beyond irreverent for comparison purposes. Hell the TL can out handle the standard LS, 7-Series and S-Class...

The RL and M are worthless in the mid size field and lose terribly to everything in the class.

The sad thing is people are more comfortable with the idea of a $65k HYUNDAY than a $55k ACKRA...

the mentioning of TL was to point out that if you engineer a FWD car right you don't have to go RWD for the sake of some people on the internet who most probably can't afford the wheels of a luxury compact, not to whine about it not being RWD.

and Bplease, according to your posts alone the new genesis is designed to compete with the 5-series, Chrysler 300, S-class, Bentley mulsanne, RR phantom, lambo's upcoming sedan and AM rapide. and you know that the new genesis, the 2020 genesis, the 2027 genesis and 20zillion genesis will only compete with one of the vehicles mentioned above, which is the 300. and it will always lose to the 300C.

the M is a BMW with infiniti badges and now it may actually b more fun-to-drive than the 5-series.and the RLX will offer a hybrid version which will produce 370+ HP. and a base RLX will still offer more HP and torque than a base Audi A6 FWD/AWD and the same horsepower of that of the A6 with the upgraded 3.0T engine.

only you are comfortable to the idea of a 65K hunday, and the only ones buying equus' are casinos, and they probably buy it with huge discounts.

------------------------Me Biased?? Absolutely!!! The day I cheer an Effin Foreign company over a Domestic one is the day I need Obama himself to show up at my house and kick my sell-out ass outta this country, once and for all. -Camicasa ------------------------Honda's JM: "We love being the comeback kid, over and over and over again. It keeps us young."------------------------I'm a self absorbed consumer with no intention to buy a new car. I can expect any ridiculous thing I want -SuperDuper

FordExcursion:The Acura RLX seems confused as to where it will stand in the market. And 310 horsepower is weak for a so called "flagship" luxury sedan. Ford and Chevrolet's flagship sedans offer basically the same amounts of power.

i repeat:and the RLX will offer a hybrid version which will produce 370+ HP with the SH-AWD system. and a base RLX will still offer more HP and torque than a base Audi A6 FWD/AWD and the same horsepower of that of the A6 with the upgraded 3.0T engine.

and you would still get the the RLX with much more standard features, ( an A6 standard comes with no projectors.)

i know it is OK for the Germans to do such things and people would still buy them over their cheaper/and sometimes better J3 competitors just for the name, cause a lot of luxury buyers are after the brand and not the specs. that is why IMO hyundai has no chance in the luxury market what so ever, cause the only non-german brand that can handle the brand-prestige problem is Lexus.

------------------------Me Biased?? Absolutely!!! The day I cheer an Effin Foreign company over a Domestic one is the day I need Obama himself to show up at my house and kick my sell-out ass outta this country, once and for all. -Camicasa ------------------------Honda's JM: "We love being the comeback kid, over and over and over again. It keeps us young."------------------------I'm a self absorbed consumer with no intention to buy a new car. I can expect any ridiculous thing I want -SuperDuper

You might wanna stick to whatever day job you have (assuming you have one) and not try your hand in mathematical statistics. Lexus isn't doing so great in the mid/full-size RWD luxury sedan segments???

Well, let's see... the LS is a moot point because it's and old model and the new (refreshed) LS is just fresh on the market, so there's no statistical data on sales. So you can't really use that in any sort of argument. FYI, sales of the LS are up 37.2% for November.

As far as how Lexus is doing in the mid-sized RWD department... Lexus only has one car in this segment, and that's the 2013 GS. Lexus managed to sell 1,826 of the new GS in the month of November, which is up by a whopping 786.4% over this time last year with the old GS. Year-to-Date, Lexus has sold 19,364 of the 2013 GS compared to 3,552 in YTD sales in November of last year, which is up a whopping 443.2%. Now, I'll admit I'm no mathematics major with a degree from NYC or UCLA, but if those number indicate "not so great," then the automotive world is in real trouble. - Speedbird

You shouldn't talk about things in which you clearly have no clue about.

Lexus used to sell 50-60k units of the GS and LS models (combined)a year ;

And don't give us the whole "the models are old" excuse.

When the previous gen GS was only in its 4th year of production, sales had already fallen to 15.7k from 35.5k - and then the next few years, sales were so anemic that that they were in Infiniti M and then Acura RL category (selling around 7k and then hitting 3.7k last year).

Toyoda wanted to CANCEL the GS, but got talked out of it, but Toyota still canceled the V8 GS b/c sales were so low (in contrast the Genesis has by far the highest V8 take rate).

An even with the new GS, sales have already dropped from its high of 2.5k/month to well below the 2k mark and the new and much more heralded GS (by the automotive press) is on track to sell a good bit below what its less heralded predecessor did in its 1st year of sale, on track to sell a little over 20k (the 3rd gen GS sold nearly 33.5k in its 1st year).

So yeah, a 400+% sales increase may seem impressive if you only do a superficial analysis, but when the GS was selling 200-300/month (Acura RL-type sales) in the previous year, such gains mean little.

And since the new GS is already well behind the sales pace of its predecessor, don't be surprised if the current GS sees the same decline in sales that the previous GS experienced after its 1st year of sale.

Meanwhile the Genesis is its last model year and yet despite that and not having available AWD, sales of the Genesis sedan is around that of the GS in the US and vastly outsells the GS in Canada.

As for the LS460, the "old" excuse also doesn't work.

The MB S Class is older than the LS and sales have held up better.

And no, you don't need a fancy degree to or anything like that, just some plain common sense to have figured this out (next time, maybe you should use a bit of that, if you have any, before you post and then laughably/ironically make condescending remarks).

Michael:I love how Hyundai shills insist design cues that are used by other automakers somehow actually came from Hyundai, and that every design cue Hyundai blatantly copies from other automakers actually came from Hyundai on some previous car or concept. I guess Hyundai wrote the book on automotive design.Next the Mustang and Corvette will be Hyundai-derived.

I don't see anyone here claiming that.

Otoh, Lexus is the only brand to have been called out by Mercedes.

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Now, even after 10 years, Lexus still hasn't broken its clone-like mould. The latest Lexus LS430 has the sillouette of the superseded Mercedes S Class and a headlight theme borrowed from the new S Class.

When the covers came off the fourth generation Lexus at the Detroit Motor Show two years ago, Mercedes-Benz broke its corporate silence over what it called "Japanese copycat cars" but stopped short of calling it plagiarism.

"People explain to us it is really an honour to have someone copy our cars, but I don't think we see it that way any more," said Harald Leschke, the head of design at Mercedes-Benz. "I think it is quite obvious that they admire the design, then try to do it their way. I'm sure in some industries this sort of thing is not legal.

"What surprises us most is that [Lexus] are prepared to do it, in public, and that customers are prepared to buy their copycat cars."

Leschke said the LS430 was Lexus's opportunity to do its own design and head in a different direction "but instead they copy other designs".

"I think it's fair to say all their cars have been influenced by someone else's models," he said. "They don't have a history so they have to copy someone else's."

http://www.drive.com.au/Editorial/ArticleDetail.aspx?articleID=58

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And with the LS, Lexus abandoned aping Mercedes after the LS430 and went for more of a BMW-look with the LS460 (Hofmeister-kinked greenhouse and "Bangle-bump") with the revised LS460 also getting BMW's wedge-shaped dash and LED treatment on the taillights to boot.

Acura4ever:full RWD/AWD lineup or not, they still suck. Acuras RLX is still compared to the midsize Germans. and bplease, the equus failed in the segment they claim it competes in, an s class buyer just can't even pronounce the name hunday, that is if they even know it exists.

Acura and Infiniti still have their flagships to compete against the 5-series, so no matter how you put it, your arguement is irrelevant and just down right stupid.

even the FWD TL handle better than a RWD equus/genesis. you can base the car on a RWD platform, but doesn't make it a successful premium car, just a nice try and a baby step on the dream track.

Yeah, I'm sure people here will take the vitriol that you pontificate over those of actual auto publications.

The RLX has already gotten panned for its boring (not to mention BMW-influenced design) and while doing better than its predecessor, won't exactly set the sales chart on fire.

And it competes against the likes of the XTS and MKS (and maybe the A6) and not against the MB and BMW mid-sizers, much less flagships.

The gen TL will go cheaper while the next gen Genesis will go upmarket (probably start around $38-39k), so at the end, the lineup of the 2 brands will look like this.

ILX, TLX, RLX

RK (compact RWD sedan), Genesis, Equus

Each of the Hyundai offerings will not only be more expensive than the offerings from Acura, but will be seen as being in a different/higher segment as well.

Heck, even Kia will eventually have a more compelling luxury sedan lineup with the GT and Quoris.

huh! yet both Acuras and Lincolns are cross shopped with BMW and mercs and other luxury marques and Hyundais trio will not be cross shopped with anything higher than Chrysler.

plus what is the benefit of a RWD platform when they still handle like 15k FWD accent?

kid, I know this is like breaking the news of "Santa is not real" to you. but Hyundai and Kia will never touch any luxury automaker without a separate luxury marque. nor they can touch a premium one. cause they are simply called hunday and keeaa. k?

------------------------Me Biased?? Absolutely!!! The day I cheer an Effin Foreign company over a Domestic one is the day I need Obama himself to show up at my house and kick my sell-out ass outta this country, once and for all. -Camicasa ------------------------Honda's JM: "We love being the comeback kid, over and over and over again. It keeps us young."------------------------I'm a self absorbed consumer with no intention to buy a new car. I can expect any ridiculous thing I want -SuperDuper

t plus the TLX will not be cheaper than the TL. I don't know in what south Korean dream you are living in!

------------------------Me Biased?? Absolutely!!! The day I cheer an Effin Foreign company over a Domestic one is the day I need Obama himself to show up at my house and kick my sell-out ass outta this country, once and for all. -Camicasa ------------------------Honda's JM: "We love being the comeback kid, over and over and over again. It keeps us young."------------------------I'm a self absorbed consumer with no intention to buy a new car. I can expect any ridiculous thing I want -SuperDuper

Acura4ever:huh! yet both Acuras and Lincolns are cross shopped with BMW and mercs and other luxury marques and Hyundais trio will not be cross shopped with anything higher than Chrysler.

plus what is the benefit of a RWD platform when they still handle like 15k FWD accent?

kid, I know this is like breaking the news of "Santa is not real" to you. but Hyundai and Kia will never touch any luxury automaker without a separate luxury marque. nor they can touch a premium one. cause they are simply called hunday and keeaa. k?

I cross shopped the Genesis with everything you just mentioned and decided on purchasing an R-Spec. And I am a member of a forum full of people that did the same. Before you open your mouth and spout *** from it, be sure you have the facts in full.

Acura4ever:huh! yet both Acuras and Lincolns are cross shopped with BMW and mercs and other luxury marques and Hyundais trio will not be cross shopped with anything higher than Chrysler.

plus what is the benefit of a RWD platform when they still handle like 15k FWD accent?

kid, I know this is like breaking the news of "Santa is not real" to you. but Hyundai and Kia will never touch any luxury automaker without a separate luxury marque. nor they can touch a premium one. cause they are simply called hunday and keeaa. k?

I cross shopped the Genesis with everything you just mentioned and decided on purchasing an R-Spec. And I am a member of a forum full of people that did the same. Before you open your mouth and spout *** from it, be sure you have the facts in full.

FordExcursion:The Acura RLX seems confused as to where it will stand in the market. And 310 horsepower is weak for a so called "flagship" luxury sedan. Ford and Chevrolet's flagship sedans offer basically the same amounts of power.

Acura4ever:i repeat:and the RLX will offer a hybrid version which will produce 370+ HP with the SH-AWD system. and a base RLX will still offer more HP and torque than a base Audi A6 FWD/AWD and the same horsepower of that of the A6 with the upgraded 3.0T engine.

and you would still get the the RLX with much more standard features, ( an A6 standard comes with no projectors.)

i know it is OK for the Germans to do such things and people would still buy them over their cheaper/and sometimes better J3 competitors just for the name, cause a lot of luxury buyers are after the brand and not the specs. that is why IMO hyundai has no chance in the luxury market what so ever, cause the only non-german brand that can handle the brand-prestige problem is Lexus.

It should be abundantly obvious by now that not offering a V8 in there so called "flagship" isn't going to work because it hasn't been working.

Like I said, it is sad that Ford, Chevy and likely Toyota's flagship sedans all offer the same amount of horsepower as this thing. In Ford's case, their flagship sedan offers 365HP. This RLX, like the XTS and MKS, suffer from power ratings that are matched by full-size sedans from non-luxury brands.

the RLX will offer V8-like power with the SH-AWD system, and that is 370+ HP, so you fail once.

the Genesis is not cross-shopped with anything other than chrysler and you know you did not cross shop it with the germans, yet you and a bunch of genesis owners live in denial that you did. so you fail twice.

a ford, chevy and toyota's flagships offer same if not more amount of power than the base RLX and RLXs competitors with base trim competitors, like the 5-series and audi A6 and E-class... so you fail three times.

three times in two replies, you fail in a post more that taylor swifts fails in her relationships. so it is safe to claim you are a fail in general.

------------------------Me Biased?? Absolutely!!! The day I cheer an Effin Foreign company over a Domestic one is the day I need Obama himself to show up at my house and kick my sell-out ass outta this country, once and for all. -Camicasa ------------------------Honda's JM: "We love being the comeback kid, over and over and over again. It keeps us young."------------------------I'm a self absorbed consumer with no intention to buy a new car. I can expect any ridiculous thing I want -SuperDuper

the base S-class bluetech with a 3.0l engine offers 240HP and it is mercs flagship. (it is a diesel though so it is irrelevant IMO.)

they all offer V8 engines granted, but the RLX competes with the likes of the 5-series and A6, and it is on par with all of them with features, and power.

------------------------Me Biased?? Absolutely!!! The day I cheer an Effin Foreign company over a Domestic one is the day I need Obama himself to show up at my house and kick my sell-out ass outta this country, once and for all. -Camicasa ------------------------Honda's JM: "We love being the comeback kid, over and over and over again. It keeps us young."------------------------I'm a self absorbed consumer with no intention to buy a new car. I can expect any ridiculous thing I want -SuperDuper

someone's self confidence does not pass a 5 mm stick, their penis in other words.

------------------------Me Biased?? Absolutely!!! The day I cheer an Effin Foreign company over a Domestic one is the day I need Obama himself to show up at my house and kick my sell-out ass outta this country, once and for all. -Camicasa ------------------------Honda's JM: "We love being the comeback kid, over and over and over again. It keeps us young."------------------------I'm a self absorbed consumer with no intention to buy a new car. I can expect any ridiculous thing I want -SuperDuper