The pros have an obligation to their clients to get the dogs qualified for the master national. All the pros I talk to around here hate the limited entries because like all of us they have to tie up money months in advance to get entered in events. Then if they get lucky and qualify the dog earlier then its a scratch. I don't know what the complaint is really its fair for everyone, get entered early and plan in advance. I managed to get my one dog entered in enough events to finish his title and get him qualified and I am an amateur.

Russell

Why do they have to scratch the dog because is it has "it's ticket punched"?

Face it folks, the the Master test has become a pro show. As individuals, you can decide whether that's a good or bad thing, but it's here to stay. It doesn't matter to me. If my dog has been fully trained and performs as it should, we'll pass the test. The other participants have nothing to do with that.

I have never felt I was competing against anyone, pro or amateur, at a hunt test. I might have been competing against the Judges a time of 2, though-LOL!!!!-Paul

07-12-2013, 11:15 AM

fishduck

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brad B

Care to explain how they are competitive?

I don't necessarily agree with the thought process but here it is. Certain judges tend to pass the same percentage of dogs. This happens regardless of the area, percentage of pros in the flight, or proximity of the Master National. Certain areas/tests have stronger fields of dogs. Pros in a flight are normally better prepared. Finally, a local Master National certainly means more MH dogs in the field that have already proven their ability to meet the standard. If the pass percentages remain consistent, the perception is that you are in competition. If your dog isn't within the top % then you fail.

I personally have not seen this. I do know people who keep up with the %'s and do their best to run under the "easier" judges. My preference is a hard but fair judge. It is nice to go to the 3rd with the A list amateurs & pros.

07-12-2013, 11:24 AM

Vicky Trainor

Seems to be quite a bit of discontent since the ability for clubs to limit their numbers. I wonder if some clubs are doing this (electing to limit numbers) even though they have grounds available to split if needed. I know I was surprised to see a couple of clubs that, in the past, have run multiple flights successfully, but have elected this year to limit the entry.

07-12-2013, 11:29 AM

Brad B

Quote:

Originally Posted by fishduck

I don't necessarily agree with the thought process but here it is. Certain judges tend to pass the same percentage of dogs. This happens regardless of the area, percentage of pros in the flight, or proximity of the Master National. Certain areas/tests have stronger fields of dogs. Pros in a flight are normally better prepared. Finally, a local Master National certainly means more MH dogs in the field that have already proven their ability to meet the standard. If the pass percentages remain consistent, the perception is that you are in competition. If your dog isn't within the top % then you fail.

I personally have not seen this. I do know people who keep up with the %'s and do their best to run under the "easier" judges. My preference is a hard but fair judge. It is nice to go to the 3rd with the A list amateurs & pros.

I know a number of judges in my region and none of them judge to pass a set percentage of dogs. That's stupid and those judges should go find something else to do. Sure everyone would like to get a certain set of judges at a test then some may just run and don't care whose judging, I've done both myself. But luck of the draw doesn't always give you the judges you want so you go forth and do your best. In my opinion, if someone is having to always shop for trying to get easy judges, then they are probably not doing all they can to train sufficiently or it could be the dog. I agree it's nice to go to the 3rd but I could care less who is in it with me. Perceived competition among HT participants is something that's generated within that person it has nothing to do with judges or pass percentages. If you're that worried about who you're doing better than then you should be running FT's.

07-12-2013, 11:34 AM

championretrievers

I know of a pro that also missed out because that test filled up so quick, so amateurs aren't the only ones. You have to stay on top of it for these tests near the end of the calendar year for AKC.

07-12-2013, 11:39 AM

Brad B

Quote:

Originally Posted by championretrievers

I know of a pro that also missed out because that test filled up so quick, so amateurs aren't the only ones. You have to stay on top of it for these tests near the end of the calendar year for AKC.

Seems to be quite a bit of discontent since the ability for clubs to limit their numbers. I wonder if some clubs are doing this (electing to limit numbers) even though they have grounds available to split if needed. I know I was surprised to see a couple of clubs that, in the past, have run multiple flights successfully, but have elected this year to limit the entry.

Just because they were successful and have the grounds available does not mean they really want to handle multiple flights...then add on top of the pile, finding judges in the HT world is getting harder due to the requirements...

07-12-2013, 12:38 PM

Handler in Training

This is my first post because I am just learning this game and need to take everything in before I start giving out advice.

Let me clarify what the OP is saying (since I have had a conversation with him about it.) Neither him or I waited to get signed up till the last minute. I was actually checking twice a day (minimum) to make sure I could get entered. The test filled up in under an hour. Mine and the OP's assumption is that these guys had to have been tipped off somehow to just so happen to be located at their computer the moment the test was finalized.

I understand why clubs limit entries and I also understand that the pros are making a living at this and rely on the ability to get entered in tests. My problem is that little old me, with just one dog, not knowing a lot of people in the game, doesn't stand a chance at titling my dog when I can't even get entered in the tests. (Not because I wait but because the big names in the game are tipped off to when the test will get finalized). I have a young family and rely on tests within a 4-5 hour drive for affordability and to limit time away from my family. If I can't even get entered in a test (while checking twice a day for it to go final, it is going to take an awful long time for me to get my dog titled if I can only enter one or two tests per year. I now have to make the decision on whether I expand my area that I am willing to travel to a test or just give up on the game altogether.

I have run 4 master hunt tests in my short time in this game and have pitched in to provide some sort of help at every one of them. Whether I threw birds, set up, tore down or helped re-bird. I can't say the same for the big time pros that were at these tests. What happens when guys like me, that can't get our dogs entered, quit volunteering our weekends????? I'm guessing we wll find out soon enough....

07-12-2013, 12:49 PM

Mary Lynn Metras

Quote:

Originally Posted by Handler in Training

This is my first post because I am just learning this game and need to take everything in before I start giving out advice.

Let me clarify what the OP is saying (since I have had a conversation with him about it.) Neither him or I waited to get signed up till the last minute. I was actually checking twice a day (minimum) to make sure I could get entered. The test filled up in under an hour. Mine and the OP's assumption is that these guys had to have been tipped off somehow to just so happen to be located at their computer the moment the test was finalized.

I understand why clubs limit entries and I also understand that the pros are making a living at this and rely on the ability to get entered in tests. My problem is that little old me, with just one dog, not knowing a lot of people in the game, doesn't stand a chance at titling my dog when I can't even get entered in the tests. (Not because I wait but because the big names in the game are tipped off to when the test will get finalized). I have a young family and rely on tests within a 4-5 hour drive for affordability and to limit time away from my family. If I can't even get entered in a test (while checking twice a day for it to go final, it is going to take an awful long time for me to get my dog titled if I can only enter one or two tests per year. I now have to make the decision on whether I expand my area that I am willing to travel to a test or just give up on the game altogether.

I have run 4 master hunt tests in my short time in this game and have pitched in to provide some sort of help at every one of them. Whether I threw birds, set up, tore down or helped re-bird. I can't say the same for the big time pros that were at these tests. What happens when guys like me, that can't get our dogs entered, quit volunteering our weekends????? I'm guessing we wll find out soon enough....

I am missing the point here. Why not just enter earlier???

07-12-2013, 12:51 PM

Handler in Training

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mary Lynn Metras

I am missing the point here. Why not just enter earlier???

Because it was not open for entries. It opened, 50 minutes later it was full.