They did another of those ‘all-time top 10’ teams this month and the 1985 Edmonton Oilers came in at No. 1. It was a pleasing choice for me, because the 1985 club featured all of the elements we’d come to love and the entire Boys on the Bus remained intact. It also contained the heart and soul of those Oilers.

“One night last season, he awoke in Hartford, Connecticutt with a screaming toothache. He called long distance to his sister-in-law, a dental hygienist. “Wait til morning,” she said. “I can’t,” said Fogolin. “I have to play tomorrow.” Then he went to his hotel room closet, dismantled a coat-hanger, made a small hook and ripped the cap off his offending molar. In the game the next night, he beat up Hartford’s Warren Miller, whose errant stick had cut him for six stitches–outside the mouth.” (Peter Gzowski, The Game of our Lives)

Why the Buffalo Sabres ever let him loose remains a mystery, but Lee Fogolin’s time as an Oiler is a key story in the team’s history. Ask Kevin Lowe about Fogey and you’ll receive chapter and verse on just how important a player he was to a large group of enormously talented youngsters. Today I celebrate the 1985 Edmonton Oilers, and the ferocious lion who showed them the way through the power of his presence and the evidence of his game.

MODERN FOGOLIN

I had John Short on the Lowdown a little while ago, and he identified Adam Larsson as the modern Lee Fogolin. John told me McDavid (99) and Draisaitl (Messier) were still building and Larsson’s heart and soul effort was a nice comp for Fogolin. I expect we’ve all made our minds up about Larsson but John’s comments were poignant and yesterday’s announcement about that 1985 had me thinking about the current team and the various roles.

SPENCER FOO

In early May, Darren Dreger sent out an update, saying the plan was to narrow down the list of possible teams to three and then make a decision after the expansion draft. Gerry Johansson’s agency is representing Foo and he made it clear (on Bob’s show) Edmonton is one of the teams that remains in the running. Now Foo awaits activity leading up to the expansion draft and (this is me reading the tea leaves) deciding on the most attractive option. I think Foo and his representation are handling this well, using every advantage to make an informed decision. Once you commit, the relationship changes, just like buying a house. Be sure, make the most informed decision possible. A lot of good advice around this young man.

This comes down to “do you believe Dreger has solid information?” and I do believe it to be the case. I’m still not sure this deal happens, Snow will want the Oilers to retain (is my guess) and Chiarelli has to be mindful of the cap. Still, that’s a very good trade for Edmonton in my opinion.

Hamonic played an enormous amount of his season against elites, and the numbers show he struggled. Injury also impacted him (49 games), lots of people saying he struggled with Nick Leddy but he also had a time with Calvin DeHaan. He was hurt, that’s a fact (knee and thumb injuries) but I think he’d be a nice addition to the Oilers defense. Trading Eberle has its own problems though, and my bet is that Snow either wants to make the trade before the expansion draft, or Edmonton to retain, or both. This deal could happen sooner than later, but I don’t believe PC will have an appetite to go 4-4-1. Suspect it could happen in the hours after the expansion draft and Hamonic is a player I would value as an Oiler, but much of the value for New York in making this deal comes in doing it before expansion. Sticky wicket.

EBERLE-FOO CONNECTION?

I wonder if the Foo camp are waiting for a shoe to drop? Dealing Jordan Eberle to the Islanders would make Edmonton’s RW depth chart far more attractive to a college graduate with goal-scoring acumen. The Oilers would still be protected (Leon Draisaitl) and Foo would have an open chance against younger players like Anton Slepyshev and Jesse Puljujarvi (although Foo and Slepyshev are the same age). Makes some sense.

Eberle for Hamonic is a definite yes for me. You look at how much NSH has been able to accomplish this year with very little offensive power houses in their group of forwards and you can quickly see how valuable a great blue line can be. Hamonic is coming off a poor season mostly due to injury and I think he would be a very welcome addition to the Oilers defensive core.

I met Warren Miller earlier this year in Columbus, Ohio. Very nice gentleman. Played in Edmonton for a short while and only remembered the cold. LOL. He played with some legends. Unfortunately for him the salaries were not comparable to now.

LT based on nothing other than a vague sense of how things might work with Expansion, here’s a thought experiment.

On June 17th, the window for Vegas to negotiate with UFAs and RFAs opens up.

Let’s, for the sake of argument, say that Vegas likes the cut of Kris Russell’s jib. Solid NHLer with a reputation for playing coach-appreciated, shot-blocking hockey. Should Vegas tab him, Edmonton is now in the clear to make a deal with the Islanders and don’t have to worry about 7-3-1 or 8-1 calculations. They will have already paid their expansion tab and the timing of the Eberle/Hamonic trade can be made without any worries from an Oilers perspective – yes?

“VOR: And what do we know about some teams that keep showing up in the top four and keep winning cups for that matter?”

This is just one opinion and one formula:

I think it is critical to have Superstars that are chosen towards the end of the draft cycle / rebuild. Crosby was taken with or after Letang, Fleury & Malkin. Kane was taken after Seabrook, Keith, Crawford & Toews. Doughty on the backend of the Kings quality picks. When the superstar is taken on the back end of the rebuild, results can happen quicker, as there is more support and depth for them to work with. And there are more assets to grow with them or be traded out for important pieces (Schenn, Simmonds in L.A.; Hall in Edm). McDavid is drafted AFTER RNH, Drai, Nurse, Klefbom and Hall (swapped for Larsson). This does not gurantee success, but based on history, it does provide the BEST formula for success

Take a look at 4 Good teams that finish high in the standings and have won 7 of the last 8 Cups. Washington, Pitt, Chi & L.A.

Through all of these teams rebuilds, they have drafted Hall of Fame Caliber players, both by obviously having a good scouting staff BUT also by the luck of the draft year …. If you want 1 reason why the Oilers rebuild 1.0 and 2.0 were stalled you can look at the quality of players they drafted. The quality of the draft and the luck of drafting the right players, has a huge impact on future success.

Random draft and how each year can mean totally different things to an organization:

Oilers get 3 #1 picks in a row 2010, 2011, 2012: Hall, RNH & Yak
If they get the 3 previous #1’s (2007, 2008, 2009) they get Kane, Stamkos & Tavares
If they get the last 3 years they get Matthews, McDavid & Ekblad

Once a team has obtained a Superstar(s) through the draft, they need at least 2 all world forwards, 1 dman and a Top 10 Goalie … I think Edmonton currently has this except for the D man .. (maybe Oscar .. but not sure) …

There are layers upon layers of important factors that contribute to winning: Mgmt, Scouting, Systems, Coaching, Stability, Development, Luck, etc .. But nothing can fix a team for a decade or more, like drafting a superstar(s) and then building around them … I also know there are examples of teams like the Islanders and CBJ who have had lots of high picks and never won …. That is the thing .. The Islanders got Bailey, Okposo, O marra, Nokelainen & Nilsson prior to Johnny T … NOT even close to good enough. And since getting JT, they have drafted Niederrietter, Strome, Reinhart, Pulock and Dal Colle. You can quickly see why they have NOT been able to stay at the top or compete for a Cup.

It might have taken the decade of darkness, but I believe the Oilers now have the correct recipe for long term success. Assuming 8 year contracts from Drai and McD, the Oilers have at least an 8 year window. Now it is time for them to Deliver.

Doug McLachlan:
LT based on nothing other than a vague sense of how things might work with Expansion, here’s a thought experiment.

On June 17th, the window for Vegas to negotiate with UFAs and RFAs opens up.

Let’s, for the sake of argument, say that Vegas likes the cut of Kris Russell’s jib.Solid NHLer with a reputation for playing coach-appreciated, shot-blocking hockey.Should Vegas tab him, Edmonton is now in the clear to make a deal with the Islanders and don’t have to worry about 7-3-1 or 8-1 calculations.They will have already paid their expansion tab and the timing of the Eberle/Hamonic trade can be made without any worries from an Oilers perspective – yes?

This is true to an extent insofar as the Oil wouldn’t have to worry about another player being chosen, however, there is an NHL mandated trade freeze that happens then so the Islanders would still be hooped unless there was an already drawn up trade for him with Vegas.

Oh god poor drafting has really screwed this team hasn’t it? No team that has been bad for 10 years should have its cupboards so embarrassingly empty. And I know most of our 1st round picks have played immediately but the Oilers haven’t hit on a 2nd round pick since Petry. That’s unacceptable smh.

Going through the last decade of drafts for the Oilers requires some heavy gin and tonic.

Something else needs to move for NYI to do this deal, no? According to capfriendly NYI has approximately 2 mil of cap space. The difference in cap hit for the two is more than 2. I get the appeal of Ebs for NYI though. On a down year for him, he would have basically been tied for 2nd in scoring for them. He’d be their best offensive RW option by a wide margin.

He is RH and his contract is ok, but those WOWY’s are brutal. Just about everyone is better away from him that with him.

The worst CF% on the team. Sure he was playing elites, but he was doing it about the same level as Eric Gryba would. -21 in 49 games is tough to do.

Doesn’t help on the PP either.

I guess the saving grace is that it was just last year. The year before he was much better.

We can attribute the downturn to injury, but that is a dangerous game. We don’t know. He has some other stuff going on with family that caused him to demand a trade.

If I am Chia, I drive a real hard bargain. Trading Eberle leaves a massive hole on the right side. Having a Kassian (a plugger), Slepy (who is still in the valley of doubt), JP (who maybe has to spend the year in the AHL), and Foo (who isn’t even on the team) as the replacements is frightening. None of those guys is a first line player. Getting one won’t be easy.

Why would Snow want to trade Hamonic anyway? Their defense is paper thin as it is. Adding Eberle puts them pretty close to $73 million if Grabovski is healthy.

I would like Ryan Pulock and Casey Cizikas for Eberle + $1 M. The Oilers get a RH offensive D with good size that looks ready to step in. Cizikas gives them more C depth and evens out the money a little (he makes $3.35 M x 4).

Dino:
Oh god poor drafting has really screwed this team hasn’t it? No team that has been bad for 10 years should have its cupboards so embarrassingly empty. And I know most of our 1st round picks have played immediately but the Oilers haven’t hit on a 2nd round pick since Petry. That’s unacceptable smh.

Going through the last decade of drafts for the Oilers requires some heavy gin and tonic.

Yes, but it is that ineptitude that brought us 97. So the best way to keep your sanity and sobriety is to only look at 2015 forward.

IF, and that is a big IF, the Islanders are willing to trade Hamonic for Eberle straight up before the expansion draft you make that trade all day long.
The oilers would then have to choose between Maroon and Kassian on their protected list.They can afford to lose one of these guys. The oilers are one of the few teams that are not hurt by going 4 4 1.
If the target is Hamonic a pre expansion deal makes the most sense.

I have been thinking for a while that the Vegas list of available players from each team is going to be longer than just the exposed signed guys. I don’t know why they would sign any RFAs if they have to give back compensation when there are so many free options all around the place. But how many teams’ best available players will be an unsigned UFA?

It’s absolutely the case for Edmonton that the best player available to VGK is Russel by a wide, wide margin. And if McPhee goes the route of gobbling up all the defencemen, then snagging Russel up before he can hit the open market makes a ton of sense to me. If the idea of grabbing all the best available defencemen was to corner the market on a necessary commodity, then signing as many of the veteran UFA D-men available before everyone else just increases the power of his position. Everyone will come knocking if there are no decent options left on July 1.

I haven’t chimed in in a while, but I have to say NO TO HAMONIC! For Eberle????? Are you kidding? NYI would be absolutely stealing from us in that trade. Better to hang on to Ebs this year rather that trade him for a Hamonic. I don’t understand the love for Hamonic. Sure, he’s a great guy with a great story but he will not make this hockey club better and trading a 20 goal guy for him would be an absolute MISTAKE! Please PC don’t do that.

– I agree that by far Russel is the best player available.I’ve advocated it since the start

– Vegas though has to get the FA’s to sign a contract.Why agree to sign, when possibly getting shipped out? Location and flexibility are the few things that FA’s control to some degree.

The other thing is, even if they convince Russell to sign, why use that as their expansion pick from Edmonton. If the Oilers aren’t going to re sign him then Vegas could probably get them to trade his rights away for a mid round pick.

Why would Snow want to trade Hamonic anyway?– Isles can only protect 3 D men.Leddy, Boychuk and DeHaan or Hamonic … They are going to lose 1 decent D man if they don’t trade before the expansion draft …

Ah yes. Didn’t look at their list.

But if you have Snow over a barrel, surely you can do better than a Dman coming off a brutal year for your #1 RW. When you add in that the Oilers lose Kassian/ Maroon/ Letestu instead of Reinhart/ Kharia, that’s a big hit.

I think it would make more sense to trade Nuge for Faulk (as a base for a trade) and keep Eberle. Based on the free agent market, the depth chart and I think Faulk is a more complete defenceman compared to Harmonic.

You could sign someone like Derek Ryan which would be a good fit on the 3rd line, he’s cheaper and a right shot center giving the team more balance. Eberle is a constant point producer and could very well bounce back next year. Plus his deal is 2 years shorter than Nuge’s deal and paying a center you are playing on the 3rd line 6m is steep in the current NHL.

GriffCity:
I haven’t chimed in in a while, but I have to say NO TO HAMONIC! For Eberle????? Are you kidding? NYI would be absolutely stealing from us in that trade. Better to hang on to Ebs this yearrather that trade him for a Hamonic. I don’t understand the love for Hamonic. Sure, he’s a great guy with a great story but he will not make this hockey club better and trading a 20 goal guy for him would be an absolute MISTAKE! Please PC don’t do that.

A year ago, I think most people on this blog were more than willing to trade Eberle for Hamonic. Both players are coming off poorer seasons this year so what has changed? Unless you think Eberle is going to rebound and Hamonic isn’t. I don’t know why you would think that.These players are the same age.
Three years of Hamonic would be perfect shelter for Benning, Bear, Mantha, etc. I just have trouble seeing the Islanders making this trade but maybe they are that desperate for scoring. I dunno.

Yah, if we can get Faulk and Ryan out of Carolina, I think it would complement this team well going forward. Faulk has way more Offense than a guy like Hamonic. Some ppl have mentioned Faulk is not available, so might just be dreaming …

Based on what I have read on various sites, the NYI are approaching the time when they will have to re-sign John Tavares. If they want to keep him, they have to demonstrate a commitment to building a competitive hockey club. I think that means that they need to sign productive offensive forwards. Despite his down year, Eberle is definitely productive.

I believe this is a major factor affecting Snow and his approach to off season trades.

A second point of interest is that Larsson played most of the playoffs with a separated shoulder. This reaffirms his grit and toughness. It also creates parallels with Lee Fogolin, Jason Smith, Kevin Lowe and other gritty D men the Oilers have had over the years.

Snow has mismanaged the Isles roster bigtime .. Like Oilers 1.0 Rebuild. They got Tavares but other than that, it’s been misstep after misstep … Draft record is terrible …

Don’t sign Okposo, but then sign Ladd. For those Oiler fans who thought the Lucic signing was risky (which it was), Lucic was 28, Ladd was 31. Those years are gold when looking at a power forward. The cliff will come, and every year over 30 is super risky. Terrible signing by Snow.

Nashville is absolutely hamstrung in expansion, trading an exempt player like Slepyshev+3rd+whatever would give them a 3rd/4th liner that they don’t have to worry about.
Of course Nashville would rather trade Craig Smith but will they find a spot for him? Chiarelli might be interested in him.

You guys have learned nothing from the Chiarelli experience. Whatever Eberle gets in return, it will be less than what we expect. Then we will rationalize it by saying the trade was necessary and it was what the market was. Some will complain, while others will immediately deride them and say it is time to move on. The trade HAD to happen, they will say.

Cassandra:
You guys have learned nothing from the Chiarelli experience.Whatever Eberle gets in return, it will be less than what we expect.Then we will rationalize it by saying the trade was necessary and it was what the market was.Some will complain, while others will immediately deride them and say it is time to move on.The trade HAD to happen, they will say.

Have no idea what they will get for Eberle but I’ve already rationalized that they have to do it. One team can only have so many 6 million dollar forwards. They can’t trade Lucic and TMac loves his centers (and I agree), so Eberle is the one that has to go. Maybe not this summer, but sometime during the next year.

Cassandra:
You guys have learned nothing from the Chiarelli experience.Whatever Eberle gets in return, it will be less than what we expect.Then we will rationalize it by saying the trade was necessary and it was what the market was.Some will complain, while others will immediately deride them and say it is time to move on.The trade HAD to happen, they will say.

– And IF Ebs gets traded, and the team scores more goals, lets in less: Cassie, you be like: “But Ebs was so good, it’s not because of this bad trade that the team got better, Chia is a bad GM”…

– Cassandra, IF Ebs gets traded, your predictions of doom will fall on deaf ears. Cursed with “Oh how I miss Hall and Ebs: the dream is dead”, while the team marches towards its 10 years of hockey that matters to its fans. You will lurk, smug with the knowledge of how right you are

– Appollo, God of Light, our leader of music and poetry, in McD the peasants will trust.

Does trading Eberle for Hamonic get you closer to balance (and the Holy Grail balance photo)? I’m guessing so, as wingers are more easily replaceable, but in a down year on PP2, Eberle still scored 20 goals (and hit a gajillion posts).

Kinger_Oil.redux: – And IF Ebs gets traded, and the team scores more goals, lets in less: Cassie, you be like: “But Ebs was so good, it’s not because of this bad trade that the team got better, Chia is a bad GM”…

– Cassandra, IF Ebs gets traded, your predictions of doom will fall on deaf ears. Cursed with “Oh how I miss Hall and Ebs: the dream is dead”, while the team marches towards its 10 years of hockey that matters to its fans. You will lurk, smug with the knowledge of how right you are

– Appollo, God of Light, our leader of music and poetry, in McD the peasants will trust.

Ha ha ha was sure I was going to be the first to comment on the name “Cassandra “, but no.

1) Which Oil player will Vegas select?:
2) Who is our first pick in the Entry Draft?
3) Does Ebs get moved? (bonus if you pick for who)
4) Does RNH get moved (bonus if you pick for who)
5) Who is our back-up G on game 1?
6) Total $ amount/years for Russell (0 is an answer)
7) Total $ amount/years of McDavid’s contract?
8) Total $ amount/years of Drai’s contract?
9) Which 2 D dress with Larsson/Klef/Nurse/Benning on game 1?
10) Biggest off-season F acquired in terms of salary?:
11) Is Jessie playing in NHL game 1?
12) How many roster trades does Chia make?
Please send in the following format. Entries eligible untill the first transaction and/or Vegas draft:
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12

It’s absolutely the case for Edmonton that the best player available to VGK is Russel by a wide, wide margin. And if McPhee goes the route of gobbling up all the defencemen, then snagging Russel up before he can hit the open market makes a ton of sense to me. If the idea of grabbing all the best available defencemen was to corner the market on a necessary commodity, then signing as many of the veteran UFA D-men available before everyone else just increases the power of his position. Everyone will come knocking if there are no decent options left on July 1.

Vegas is required to select 9 defenseman, so they cannot “gobble up” any more than that. And I ‘think’ their window is not infinite…I assume they can’t sign Russell, and then go ahead and sign Eric Gryba….?

one year ago, I was very happy with the Russell signing as he represented an NHL calibre Defenseman. How good or bad is up for debate, but he was NHL quality. Where as the year before the Oilers started Nurse (super inexperienced), Reinhart and Fayne .. BRUTAL …

But we have graduated past AHL level defense core … we now have some quality pieces and all of our young guys have more experience ..

I think they need 1 or 2 pieces like Russell and Hamonic at a minimum BUT my preference is that PC aims higher (tyson Barrie, Justin Faulk, etc – A dman with offensive upside). And yes, I understand these players might not be available or the cost may be prohibitive …

But if the goal is to win the Cup next year, I don’t know if Hamonic in offsets, Eberle out … ???

one year ago, I was very happy with the Russell signing as he represented an NHL calibre Defenseman.How good or bad is up for debate, but he was NHL quality. Where as the year before the Oilers started Nurse (super inexperienced), Reinhart and Fayne .. BRUTAL …

But we have graduated past AHL level defense core … we now have some quality pieces and all of our young guys have more experience ..

I think they need 1 or 2 pieces like Russell and Hamonic at a minimum BUT my preference is that PC aims higher (tyson Barrie, Justin Faulk, etc – A dman with offensive upside). And yes, I understand these players might not be available or the cost may be prohibitive …

But if the goal is to win the Cup next year, I don’t know if Hamonic in offsets, Eberle out … ???

That is exactly what I prefer. Someone with a little more offense. But if we need to settle I’m ok with Russell but no more than 1 year.

I’m surprised how many people are down on the Hamonic idea. Trading Eberle for a guy who is a top 4 RHD is a no brainer to me. Hamonic would play less against elites since he could share the load with Larsson, so his underlying stats would likely improve. I guess I’ll frame the question this way: If you won’t do Eberle for Hamonic straight up, what do you think is a better return for Eberle? PC wanted Hamonic all last year and undoubtedly if Eberle straight up had gotten Hamonic last year Hall would probably still be here, but the Isles need to shed a dman and now is a golden opportunity to get a top 4D for less than market value.

My preference is that PC aims for more of an offensive D man, whether Eberle is involved or not …Hamonic is OK for sure, but is he really going to push this team over the top? He is solid. He has average 5 goals per season, so he bring next to NO offense .. With Sekera hurt, I guess Klefbom will provide all the O?

Yeah I get your point and I would love and offensive Dman, but they are often very expensive. Hamonic is a strong puck mover, and as long as he can get the puck to our forwards we should be okay. I don’t have an answer to this question, but would you rather start the season with:

77-6
25-Hamonic
Stop Gap- Benning
Gryba

OR

77-6
25-Barrie
Stop Gap- Benning

IF you can fit Barrie and Russell under the cap maybe it works because Russell is good enough defensively to cover for Barrie. But if Nurse is filling in on 2nd pair I think you need a more defensive type.

I agree with the set up you have … I actually think they should give Darnell #2LD minutes to start the year …They have to figure out if he can play Top 4 or not … and if he settles in the Top 4 it’s a huge boost to an already solid blueline .. To be clear, I don’t think we should rush him or feed him to the wolves, but I think he’ s played enough and showed in the playoffs he can be a #2LD.

His game just needs slight refinement … quicker passes, less carrying the puck into trouble. Simplify Simplify ..

They can fill the Stop Gap person rather easily and for cheap. Where as Russell is pricey and will come with term …..

Yeah I agree. But, I think you need to give Darnell defensive cover rather than an offensive specialist in these scenarios. I think the cap space and current situation on the blue line tip the scales in favour of a Hamonic type, but Barrie would add a completely different look to the blue line as well. Glad I’m not the one making these decisions!

geowal: Vegas is required to select 9 defenseman, so they cannot “gobble up” any more than that. And I ‘think’ their window is not infinite…I assume they can’t sign Russell, and then go ahead and sign Eric Gryba….?

geowal: Vegas is required to select 9 defenseman, so they cannot “gobble up” any more than that. And I ‘think’ their window is not infinite…I assume they can’t sign Russell, and then go ahead and sign Eric Gryba….?

They have to grab 9 but word around here has been that they can grab up to 14 D. If they take the max amount of defencemen then they deplete the pool available to everyone else and McPhee can try and start a bidding war over them.

Yeah I get your point and I would love and offensive Dman, but they are often very expensive. Hamonic is a strong puck mover, and as long as he can get the puck to our forwards we should be okay. I don’t have an answer to this question, but would you rather start the season with:

77-6
25-Hamonic
Stop Gap- Benning
Gryba

OR

77-6
25-Barrie
Stop Gap- Benning

IF you can fit Barrie and Russell under the cap maybe it works because Russell is good enough defensively to cover for Barrie. But if Nurse is filling in on 2nd pair I think you need a more defensive type.

I agree with this statement and I’d add that Hamonic, to me, seems like the perfect compliment to Nurse and would allow 25 to grow his offensive game but not be overexposed. I think in this situation it would be ideal to get Russell or a comparable on another 1 year deal to provide a reasonable plan B to Nurse in the top 4 until Sekera is back and/or provide cover in case of a Benning sophomore slump.

What’s the word on Alzner these days? This time two years ago he was the cornerstone of the Capitals D, now he’s not even being re-signed. Could he be a 1 year Russell replacement?

I think Alzner will get $$ and term from a team like Calgary. I don’t think you need to even aim that high on a one-year stop gap anyways. What about a guy like Hainsey? probably suited for 3rd pair but could slide up in a pinch and shouldn’t be commanding high term or money.

He is RH and his contract is ok, but those WOWY’s are brutal. Just about everyone is better away from him that with him.

The worst CF% on the team. Sure he was playing elites, but he was doing it about the same level as Eric Gryba would. -21 in 49 games is tough to do.

Doesn’t help on the PP either.

I guess the saving grace is that it was just last year. The year before he was much better.

We can attribute the downturn to injury, but that is a dangerous game. We don’t know. He has some other stuff going on with family that caused him to demand a trade.

If I am Chia, I drive a real hard bargain. Trading Eberle leaves a massive hole on the right side. Having a Kassian (a plugger), Slepy (who is still in the valley of doubt), JP (who maybe has to spend the year in the AHL), and Foo (who isn’t even on the team) as the replacements is frightening. None of those guys is a first line player. Getting one won’t be easy.

Why would Snow want to trade Hamonic anyway? Their defense is paper thin as it is. Adding Eberle puts them pretty close to $73 million if Grabovski is healthy.

I would like Ryan Pulock and Casey Cizikas for Eberle + $1 M. The Oilers get a RH offensive D with good size that looks ready to step in. Cizikas gives them more C depth and evens out the money a little (he makes $3.35 M x 4).

I’m no fan of trading Eberle, but I think I would do it if it brought Hamonic in return. Contracts and positional need play a big part in that though.

I do have a question about the WOWY. Would this not almost always come out poorly for anyone who is the de-facto tough minutes guy? I mean, if the coaching staff decides it’s going to be Hamonic plus whoever against the other team’s top players and for the lions share of the DZ faceoffs, then wouldn’t it stand to reason that any time his partner plays on another pairing, he’ll be doing so in a much more favourable role? Especially if he doesn’t have a regular partner and the other “same side” defenseman on the team (the one he wouldn’t be paired with but every one of his partners would be) is also pretty good?

Like how RNH would get hurt in WOWY because he’s the only guy in the top 9 who never plays with McDavid, and a lot of the guys who’s “without” minutes are with 97? Nuge would come off looking poor because McDavid is a killer.

Snow has mismanaged the Isles roster bigtime .. Like Oilers 1.0 Rebuild. They got Tavares but other than that, it’s been misstep after misstep … Draft record is terrible …

Don’t sign Okposo, but then sign Ladd.For those Oiler fans who thought the Lucic signing was risky (which it was), Lucic was 28, Ladd was 31. Those years are gold when looking at a power forward.The cliff will come, and every year over 30 is super risky. Terrible signing by Snow.

Snow trades young skilled forward, Nino Neidereitter for Cal Clutterbuck. Most recent season Nino had 25 G & 57 Pts.Cal had 5 G and 20 Pt.Nino is 25, Cal 30.Trades like that hurt. Nice work Garth.

So yes, he’s desperate and part of it is his own fault.

Ya I don’t understand the love for him. He’s made some very poor moves, and he’s continually fucked around their prospects. Part of the niño trade is he felt he was getting enough of an opportunity to prove himself. And he wasn’t. Played mostly fourth line with very little minutes.

It will be interesting to see if either Florida or NYI decide to protect 5 defensemen. They could both go 3F-5D-1G and make up for their lost wingers in free agency. That would quash any lowball trade offers.

You would guess the first domino to fall will be Anaheim trading one of their d-men. Can’t wait to see this play out.

3C: Jarnkrok or Derek Ryan preferred (Ryan is a free agent, and I’d like a 2 year signing).

2RD: Would be pleased with Hamonic or Demers. We would get outbid going for Faulk or Tanev. The only offensive D that interests me is Dumba, who is still developing and fits into our young core. Barrie is high risk, Vatanen would be interesting if chosen by Vegas, but I think he’s injured.

Foo is a nice prospect, but can we stop pushing him into a key role next year? Last year was the exception, usually you don’t have 1 player stepping from college to steady NHL minutes, much lesss two. If he signs here, has a good camp, he could start with the big club. That’s all we should expect.

Harmonic does a lot of good things that doesn’t show up on CF%. He’s physical, has a good HDSC number and has a good shot from the right side. It’s not all about CF%

GCW_69: Exactly!The cost of the right hand defender week shoot up after the expansion draft. The oilers need to seize the moment.

They also need to avoid faking in love with their depth players like Letestu and Kassian. They are replaceable and at a lower cost than a top four defender.

100% agreed. If the team cannot stand to lose their 4C or 4RW then that says the organization is not nearly deep enough. LV isn’t going to take Kassian and Letestu should be replaceable on the PP and his 5×5 is not great. Not to mention you could make an agreement with LV to take Reinhart if you give them a pick.

Cassandra:
You guys have learned nothing from the Chiarelli experience.Whatever Eberle gets in return, it will be less than what we expect.Then we will rationalize it by saying the trade was necessary and it was what the market was.Some will complain, while others will immediately deride them and say it is time to move on.The trade HAD to happen, they will say.

I agree. Ever since Chiarelli traded Hall away the team’s gone from 29th to within a hair of making the final four in the playoffs. This is an unacceptable result for an NHL team, and Chiarelli wears the goat horns for it. Then there’s Patrick Maroon. Just another bum. Cam Talbot? Makes you wish Conkinnen was back manning the nets.

Hopefully once Chiarelli REALLY screws up, the attendant Stanley Cups he probably wins won’t even get counted with the “Boys on the Bus” era of excellence; who, have now been officially hailed by HF Boards as having the greatest hockey team ever. And since HF Boards is the largest NHL site, it’s got to be true.

Cassandra – MacT’s young relation – the one who knows how to turn a computer on.

–hudson–:
It will be interesting to see if either Florida or NYI decide to protect 5 defensemen.They could both go 3F-5D-1G and make up for their lost wingers in free agency.That would quash any lowball trade offers.

You would guess the first domino to fall will be Anaheim trading one of their d-men. Can’t wait to see this play out.

It doesn’t work like that 4 4 1 or 7 3 1. Those are the two options for protection lists.

There are rules about leaving signed players exposed and players with no trades must be protected.

Visit cap friendly. They have a wonderful expansion tool.

Edit: Apparently it’s 7 3 1 or 8 1 with the 8 being any mix of FD. So teams could protect 5D if they had a sixth D that meets the exposure requirements.

Since Chiarelli’s a Bruin at heart, he’s got to be massively influenced by the biggest trade in NHL history – the one that sent Stanfield and Esposito to Boston; alternatively providing Orr with the perfect player to score goals with, and relegating the Blackhawks from potential 2-3 cup winners to also ran status.

So…

Chiarelli’s going to do two things:

1 – Bring Chara to the Oilers

2 – Astonish everyone with a trade that’s going to propel the team instantly into contender status.

Chiarelli’s assembled the toughest team in the NHL. A team that had better be tough to whip the Ducks next season. Kassian is not only an important reclamation project for the team, that will probably sign outstanding deals which favor the team but the NHL’s current psycho champion.

Cassandra:
You guys have learned nothing from the Chiarelli experience.Whatever Eberle gets in return, it will be less than what we expect.Then we will rationalize it by saying the trade was necessary and it was what the market was.Some will complain, while others will immediately deride them and say it is time to move on.The trade HAD to happen, they will say.

Chia could trade Eberle for Erik Karlsson and some fans would respond by bitching about the Hall trade. I will only complain if they don’t replace Eberle with a veteran winger.

hunter1909: Chiarelli’s assembled the toughest team in the NHL. A team that had better be tough to whip the Ducks next season. Kassian is not only an important reclamation project for the team, that will probably sign outstanding deals which favor the team but the NHL’s current psycho champion.

Kassian’s going nowhere.

Agree he’s going nowhere. The point I was making is that you could add a top 4 D before expansion and not be hurt too badly. If they already have a contract with Kassian they could simply no qualify him so that Vegas can’t select him. Either way Kassian will be safe.

hunter1909: Chiarelli’s assembled the toughest team in the NHL. A team that had better be tough to whip the Ducks next season. Kassian is not only an important reclamation project for the team, that will probably sign outstanding deals which favor the team but the NHL’s current psycho champion.

Kassian’s going nowhere.

TO1325453245324 is correct. If they have to protect four defense men, then the four protected forwards are RNH, Drai, Maroon, and Lucic. Kass won’t be protected in this scenario and VGK could take him and flip him to another team.

pocession charge: TO1325453245324 is correct.If they have to protect four defense men, then the four protected forwards are RNH, Drai, Maroon, and Lucic.Kass won’t be protected in this scenario and VGK could take him and flip him to another team.

Anyone who think Kassian isn’t still a massive risk to go off the rails, has never known any alcoholics. Edmonton’s like a safe haven for Kassian right now. So long as he remains here, he’s going to be fine. Once he goes to a team like Vegas(imagine that for anyone with substance/gambling issues) all bets are off.

hunter1909: Anyone who think Kassian isn’t still a massive risk to go off the rails, has never known any alcoholics. Edmonton’s like a safe haven for Kassian right now. So long as he remains here, he’s going to be fine. Once he goes to a team like Vegas(imagine that for anyone with substance/gambling issues) all bets are off.

PS: Isn’t Draisaitl exempt?

Drai is not exempt because he played 37 games in his rookie year. Vegas could potentially pick and flip Kassian, but I would think Chia could find a way around that.

TO10801: Agree he’s going nowhere. The point I was making is that you could add a top 4 D before expansion and not be hurt too badly. If they already have a contract with Kassian they could simply no qualify him so that Vegas can’t select him. Either way Kassian will be safe.

Thank you for letting everyone know this. I hate reading about players like Kassian being left open for scummy expansion teams to steal.

hunter1909: Anyone who think Kassian isn’t still a massive risk to go off the rails, has never known any alcoholics. Edmonton’s like a safe haven for Kassian right now. So long as he remains here, he’s going to be fine. Once he goes to a team like Vegas(imagine that for anyone with substance/gambling issues) all bets are off.

PS: Isn’t Draisaitl exempt?

As an addict in recovery (a few months short of 5 years), you are absolutely right, relapse will be a risk every day of his life.

With that said, I can’t agree with the reference to being just fine if he stays in Edmonton – sure, there are more “triggers” in Vegas than Edmonton but, if his disease gets a hold of him and he’s going to relapse, he’ll do it whether he’s in Vegas, Edmonton, Thailand or the Yukon.

On the other hand, I’m sure his current support group established in Edmonton is a great contributor to his current recovery and it would not be great to lose that.

I’m very proud of Zack – he’s is doing an amazing job – I’m sure he’s taking it one day at a time – the only way.

stush18:
I think it’s gotta be something like eberle for hamonic + cizakis.

The money out ($6 mill) equals the money in roughly (3.3 + 3.8)

It’s probably a bit of an overpayment by NYI, but we carry the risk of losing cisikas

I agree with your concept. While I don’t think this exact trade would go down, if it did, I think the Oil would protect Cizikas (along with RNH, Drai, Lucic) and the 4 D.

NYI still then has the risk of losing 2 RHD from their depth chart (Harmonic and Pullock if Vegas takes him). That’s why I previously mentioned the possibility of a draft ineligible player going both ways to keep the loss of depth tolerable for both teams (Bear to NYI as Pullock insurance/ Dal Colle to EDM as Maroon/Kassian/Khaira insurance).

OriginalPouzar: As an addict in recovery (a few months short of 5 years), you are absolutely right, relapse will be a risk every day of his life.

With that said, I can’t agree with the reference to being just fine if he stays in Edmonton – sure, there are more “triggers” in Vegas than Edmonton but, if his disease gets a hold of him and he’s going to relapse, he’ll do it whether he’s in Vegas, Edmonton, Thailand or the Yukon.

On the other hand, I’m sure his current support group established in Edmonton is a great contributor to his current recovery and it would not be great to lose that.

I’m very proud of Zack – he’s is doing an amazing job – I’m sure he’s taking it one day at a time – the only way.

Congrats on your ability to turn things around.

I get your point re Kassian + Vegas/temptation, which in my clumsy way I 100% agree with.

Right now Zack’s got the support necessary to pursue his incredible hockey ability. May he continue to receive this support from the Oilers; which can always be compared to the ridiculous Lowe+MacT era – itself which arguably was worse than the infamous California Golden Seals for player development.

FUN NOTE: The Seals still have a hard core following who now attend Sharks games.

I’m not convinced Hamonic is better than keeping Ebs n signing Russell.. really depends on who they would bring in to replace Ebs.. a RHC and Foo, well then, now we’re a position to actual do something with that cap space.. as it is, this doesn’t make sense to me from an asset perspective.. I’m a bigger fan of a lower level deal for pysyk or equivalent..

If i’m Snow the offer is Hamonic for Eberle straight up prior to the expansion draft. After the expansion draft its Eberle with $2milliion retained for Hamonic.

I doubt Chia wants to give up Ebbs and Kassian(to Vegas 4-4-1) for Hamonic+$2million cap space but maybe…..its also possible he could always work some other deal with Vegas to keep Kassian.

Stauffer is HINTING HARD today about a deal with Eberle for Strome…or something similar……he mentioned young, underperforming winger and used Strome’s name…..but then if I heard it correctly he also added “that does not need to be exp draft protected”…..and Strome would need to be protected…..SO who is out there that fits the description young, underperforming and exapansion draft protected?

EDIT: I dont think so but…maybe I heard it wrong and its the Oilers sending an asset that is exp draft protected

Stauffer is HINTING HARD today about a deal with Eberle for Strome…or something similar……he mentioned young, underperforming winger and used Strome’s name…..but then if I heard it correctly he also added “that does not need to be exp draft protected”…..and Strome would need to be protected…..SO who is out there that fits the description young, underperforming and exapansion draft protected?

When Stauffer starts talking, people should listen – he seems to be the one true connected MSM person in Edmonton.

Eberle at 6M x 2 or Gagner at 4-5M at 3-5 M or whatever he’ll get? I’d stick with Eberle. Gagner would be a good get for Vegas, I bet he stays put at a reasonable cost or goes there. He’s already pretty well off.

pocession charge: TO1325453245324 is correct.If they have to protect four defense men, then the four protected forwards are RNH, Drai, Maroon, and Lucic.Kass won’t be protected in this scenario and VGK could take him and flip him to another team.

Everyone seems to think that Maroon is a lock to be protected in a 4 4 1 scenario but I am not so sure. If the Oilers can get Kassian signed to a 3 year deal ( 2.2 mil per year is the number LT keeps mentioning) I would look pretty hard at protecting him.
Maroon is signed to a great contract, but for only 1 more year. I see two scenarios for him next year.
Scenario A. Maroon gets significant time with Macdavid again and has another strong year scoring 25 to 30 goals. I think this is most likely.
Scenario B. Maroon reverts to career norms and scores between 10 and 15 goals.
In Scenario A Maroon would probably command a contract minimum of 5×5. No way that Edmonton can match that so he would be gone after next season.
In Scenario B the oilers wouldn’t miss that production if he did get picked in expansion.
The only reason to protect Maroon is if the team feels no one else can replace those goals on Macdavids wing next year. I think they have other options.

Primetime: I agree with your concept.While I don’t think this exact trade would go down, if it did, I think the Oil would protect Cizikas (along with RNH, Drai, Lucic) and the 4 D.

NYI still then has the risk of losing 2 RHD from their depth chart (Harmonic and Pullock if Vegas takes him).That’s why I previously mentioned the possibility of a draft ineligible player going both ways to keep the loss of depth tolerable for both teams (Bear to NYI as Pullock insurance/ Dal Colle to EDM as Maroon/Kassian/Khaira insurance).

If we get hamonic and a forward, who do you protect out of

Nuge, lucic, drai, maroon, cizikas (or strome for example), kass

Assuming the four d (hamonic, larsson, klefbom and sekera) are protected?

If i’m Snow the offer is Hamonic for Eberle straight up prior to the expansion draft. After the expansion draft its Eberle with $2milliion retained for Hamonic.

I doubt Chia wants to give up Ebbs and Kassian(to Vegas 4-4-1)for Hamonic+$2million cap space but maybe…..its also possible he could always work some other deal with Vegas to keep Kassian.

Stauffer is HINTING HARD today about a deal with Eberle for Strome…or something similar……he mentioned young, underperforming winger and used Strome’s name…..but then if I heard it correctly he also added “that does not need to be exp draft protected”…..and Strome would need to be protected…..SO who is out there that fits the description young, underperforming and exapansion draft protected?

Agree with your first paragraph and if I am Chia I save the 2 mil and make the deal now. See my post above on expansion protection.
Don’t know about the underperformer at wing for the Islanders. Maybe Ho Sang, I dunno.

who: Everyone seems to think that Maroon is a lock to be protected in a 4 4 1 scenario but I am not so sure. If the Oilers can get Kassian signed to a 3 year deal ( 2.2 mil per year is the number LT keeps mentioning) I would look pretty hard at protecting him.
Maroon is signed to a great contract, but for only 1 more year. I see two scenarios for him next year.Scenario A. Maroon gets significant time with Macdavid again and has another strong year scoring 25 to 30 goals. I think this is most likely.Scenario B. Maroon reverts to career norms and scores between 10 and 15 goals.
In Scenario A Maroon would probably command a contract minimum of 5×5. No way that Edmonton can match that so he would be gone after next season.
In Scenario B the oilers wouldn’t miss that production if he did get picked in expansion.
The only reason to protect Maroon is if the team feels no one else can replace those goals on Macdavids wing next year. I think they have other options.

I don’t think their is anyway reasonable maroon signs for more than 4.5 at his next contract, even if he scores 35 next year.

stush18: I don’t think their is anyway reasonable maroon signs for more than 4.5 at his next contract, even if he scores 35 next year.

Maybe you are right.
I guess my point is, after Drai and Nuge, the rest of the forwards we would have to protect are pretty interchangeable. And we have a bunch of options on the wing. The oilers are in a unique position in that regard.

Pre expansion draft…….Eberle and Bear for Hamonic and Ho Sang. (With $1.5 mil Eberle salary retained?) Edmonton 4-4-1 is Nuge, Lucic, Drai, Maroon………Sign a free agent like Justin Williams as a one or two year stop gap until one of Jessie, Slepy, Ho Sang, or Foo are ready for 2RW.

i guess it depends on what you or I or others view as the window for Stanley. If youre thinking the next 3 to 4 years you might include an asset like Bear/Jones for proven RHD veteran in his prime on a good contract……..But Yes….Topsy Turvy Lowetide Day is correct.

Stauffer is HINTING HARD today about a deal with Eberle for Strome…or something similar……he mentioned young, underperforming winger and used Strome’s name…..but then if I heard it correctly he also added “that does not need to be exp draft protected”…..and Strome would need to be protected…..SO who is out there that fits the description young, underperforming and exapansion draft protected?

Andy Dufresne: How sure are you….because I feel pretty confident I heard the words, “does not need to be expansion protected” just not clear which directionthe asset would be moving. But I could be mistaken.

Andy Dufresne: i guess it depends on what you or I or others view as the window for Stanley. If youre thinking the next 3 to 4 years you might include an asset like Bear/Jones for proven RHD veteran in his prime on a good contract……..But Yes….Topsy Turvy Lowetide Day is correct.

I get that, even if I disagree (I feel we should load up on D prospects and keep Jones and Bear to marinate – emulate Cup contenders).

But I was referring to the many proposals to tradr Bear and/or Benning for forwards.

We JUST got those two, people! And we STILL need to fortify the RHD roster spots.

Andy Dufresne: Seems to me the only way any of this makes sense is if its Eberle for Hamonic pre-exp-draft and the Oilers (because its pre draft) need a protected forward asset back so they can go 4-4-1.

And then it would follow that the Islanders would want a protected D asset that allows them to go 7-3-1….If Im Snow that asset is Bear.

If you have a deal in your back pocket to pay a pick for Vegas to select Pouliot, that could work out well but so much is up in the air right now.

The Islanders have both cap crunch and cash crunch issues. They have a little over $2M in cap space with two players yet to sign. (Grabovski’s was on LTIR to end the season but not sure Snow knows the directions to Robidas Island so things are potentially tight.)

While the cap difference between Eberle and Hamonic is significant ($6M to $3.857+) the cash difference is not as great ($6M to $4.875M). Either way, though, Eberle eats up almost all of the Islanders cap room if the NHLPA does NOT hit the 5% escalator.

If it is Dal Colle coming back, remember that he has upwards of $2.2M in bonus money attached to his ELC which may be a concern. By contrast, Ho Sang’s bonus package tops out at $212K.

Still miss General Fanager but I am warming to CapFriendly and the time hole it creates in my work life.

Is it realistic to think Foo can contribute right away at the NHL level, after watching college Star Drake Cagguila score 7 goals.Is he faster, better scorer?I don’t know and am asking …

I don’t think so. It’s one thing when the player is like Kreider , huge aggressive and fast, but Foo is smaller,skilled for sure, but I would think he’ll need some time to adapt to the speed and strength of NHL players. If they sign him I imagine he gets guaranteed something like Cagguila seems to have been.

I think JP has a better chance of being a top 6 contributor next season.

I just listened to it. This is basically a direct quote, and to be honest, it’s not clear what he means.

Stauffer:

:”a forward like him [Eberle] that’s protected through the expansion draft. That’s maybe had some challenging years or two. And that might be a lower price point. From a team that needs more offensively.

– likely a guy that gets protected himself, at a lower price point, and less of a proven scorer.”

So does he mean the player is already protected, or needs to be protected?

dustrock: I just listened to it.This is basically a direct quote, and to be honest, it’s not clear what he means.

Stauffer:

:”a forward like him [Eberle] that’s protected through the expansion draft. That’s maybe had some challenging years or two. And that might be a lower price point. From a team that needs more offensively.

– likely a guy that gets protected himself, at a lower price point, and less of a proven scorer.”

So does he mean the player is already protected, or needs to be protected?

Sounds like Strome – that’s would be gross if its Ebs for Strome straight up.

Doug McLachlan: If you have a deal in your back pocket to pay a pick for Vegas to select Pouliot, that could work out well but so much is up in the air right now.

The Islanders have both cap crunch and cash crunch issues.They have a little over $2M in cap space with two players yet to sign.(Grabovski’s was on LTIR to end the season but not sure Snow knows the directions to Robidas Island so things are potentially tight.)

While the cap difference between Eberle and Hamonic is significant ($6M to $3.857+) the cash difference is not as great ($6M to $4.875M).Either way, though, Eberle eats up almost all of the Islanders cap room if the NHLPA does NOT hit the 5% escalator.

If it is Dal Colle coming back, remember that he has upwards of $2.2M in bonus money attached to his ELC which may be a concern.By contrast, Ho Sang’s bonus package tops out at $212K.

Still miss General Fanager but I am warming to CapFriendly and the time hole it creates in my work life.

ALL roads lead back to Eberle with salary retained. So maybe Snow makes the proposition A) Dal Colle with no Eberle salary retained or B) Ho Sang WITH Eberle salary retained.

I just hope they find a RD that can suppress some entries, break up cycles and move the puck up by passing and skating in a helpful way, and play the offensive blue line well by keeping the puck alive shooting or dumping back deep to a good place.

The Oilers still have issues with this at 2 RD. Nurse might be ok at 2 LD if given enough time with a capable partner until Sekera is up and skating. I don’t think Nurse Russell will be good there, passable maybe. I don’t mind Russell but for me he’s not a great right side, but then I don’t think many lefties are good there, and the best D corps don’t have guys off hand if they don’t have to.

Looking at the current series the Pens are having a lot of trouble because their depleted D corp is getting exposed and the Preds well balanced D corp is really limiting shots against and grade A chances. Of course their are other things going on, but if Rinne hadn’t had a rough 2 games it might be over already.

The Oilers would benefit more from extra stability on D than an offensive type D given their forwards. Faulk might be better than I think he would be, it some rookies have taken his job as it stands. I’d rather have Pesce, but if Faulk is available that’s why, and that they have extra righties to cover if he goes.

who: A year ago, I think most people on this blog were more than willing to trade Eberle for Hamonic. Both players are coming off poorer seasons this year so what has changed? Unless you think Eberle is going to rebound and Hamonic isn’t. I don’t know why you would think that.These players are the same age.
Three years of Hamonic would be perfect shelter for Benning, Bear, Mantha, etc. I just have trouble seeing the Islanders making this trade but maybe they are that desperate for scoring. I dunno.

The reason that deal looked better a year ago was the OIlers D was weaker then and we had more of a need. With Kelfbom healthy and Larson in the fold, and with the emergence of Nurse and Benning we are no longer in the same position. Hamonic had an off year, ok, but he still doesn’t fetch a 20-25 goal scorer in a good year unless you enjoy getting hosed on trades. I’d rather have Pullock from NYI over Hamonic. This is a bad deal and if it were it happen would bite Edmonton in the rear in short order.