P.S.: But I never play computer games, so I don't really have anything to contribute to this thread. Honestly.

Me either. This has all been an elaborate hoax to draw out the gamers so they can be eliminated.

Louis

P.S. Honest. No. Really. I can't even spell World of Warcraft let alone converse on the haste breakpoints for balance druids and the trade offs with mastery after a 13th tick of our DoTs......erm..that would be an example of something I can't do. Obviously.

†I'll have to be VERY brief since I really need to haul my ass to the gym (so much for the stereotypical female online gamer as I am far from being a fat, ugly loser with a terrible complexion (although I do partake in the ocassional Hot Pocket and have pasty white skin))

No no no no no! You have it all wrong. Online male gamers are chunky, pale, eat paste, don't shower, and wear glasses with tape on them. Online female gamers all look like elven supermodels.

At least, that's the rumor...

Pfffff. There are no women on the internet (as ani fuul nos). Women are pretty and fragrant and don't like technical things like computers. I know because this Handbook for a 1950s wife I found told me so.

Anyway, everyone on the web is a 400lb trucker from Arkansas called Bubba. I read it in the Daily Mail. Must be true.

I tried Warhammer Online, and was a bit disatisfied. I am a longtime player of WH 40K and WH Epic on tabletop. Also Manowar <3

I've taken a good look at Robin's LOTRO, and I'm less than impressed with the engine and graphics. I won't spend anytime on that.

I guess it's back to Plants Vs Zombies for me...

I played tabletop Warhammer 40k in the mid-90's. †Tyranids. †Hive Fleet Ooga-Booga. †Painted all my bug my ownself. †My fiance at the time played Eldar. †Looked like Wraithlord, too, go figure.

I bought a Tao set, got them about halfway painted and then there was this baby thing running (crawling around). †Weird, but I devoted my life to it rather than gaming.

I guess that means you're in the casual gamer category.

--------------"Random mutations, if they are truly random, will affect, and potentially damage, any aspect of the organism, [...]Thus, a realistic [computer] simulation [of evolution] would allow the program, OS, and hardware to be affected in a random fashion." GilDodgen, Frilly shirt owner

I've been gaming since high school, D&D initially and then got my hands on an Apple II with a copy of Wizardry and the rest is history.

Now the whole family plays WoW and quest together. We've met some great people and have met several IRL.

The Fallout series is great, and my kids and I love the Dragon Age, Elder Scrolls and Mass Effect series. All of those have superb storylines. Mass Effect in particular has a vividly rendered universe.

Back to Louis' initial post, there is a pejorative stereotype of gamers spanning the basement dwelling couch potato to the sociopathic criminal. One of my favorite websites is www.penny-arcade.com (great webcomic, and the creators have an abiding love for dick jokes, something the AtBC crowd will appreciate).

Back when anti-game crusader Jack Thompson was in the headlines, the Penny Arcade crew set up the Child's Play charity to show that gamers can do good things. That charity last year pulled in $2.2 million for children's hospitals worldwide.

They also created the annual Penny Arcade Expo (PAX) in Seattle and its sister convention PAX East in Boston. I went to PAX this year with my oldest kids and had a blast. Game displays/demos, tabletop gaming, cosplay and 70,000 people all with a love of gaming. They also had numerous talks covering every aspect of games and gaming culture, including sexism in online gaming and psychology of gaming. Wil Wheaton is a fixture at PAX and he gave a stellar keynote in 2007 which is worth a look.

†I'll have to be VERY brief since I really need to haul my ass to the gym (so much for the stereotypical female online gamer as I am far from being a fat, ugly loser with a terrible complexion (although I do partake in the ocassional Hot Pocket and have pasty white skin))

No no no no no! You have it all wrong. Online male gamers are chunky, pale, eat paste, don't shower, and wear glasses with tape on them. Online female gamers all look like elven supermodels.

At least, that's the rumor...

Pfffff. There are no women on the internet (as ani fuul nos). Women are pretty and fragrant and don't like technical things like computers. I know because this Handbook for a 1950s wife I found told me so.

Anyway, everyone on the web is a 400lb trucker from Arkansas called Bubba. I read it in the Daily Mail. Must be true.

Louis

Hey, now - I've dropped down to 360 lbs!

--------------"Following what I just wrote about fitness, youíre taking refuge in what we see in the world." †PaV

Dr Dr: I had a +5 sweater!GUM of TALKY: Paladin with an intelligence of 3.DeNews: Charisma and wisdom 3Gil: Thought you could not play on the computer unless you whacked it with the mace, wonders why computer stops working.Behe: I never could get out of my irreducibly complex armor.

--------------"Following what I just wrote about fitness, youíre taking refuge in what we see in the world." †PaV

Bear in mind that successful games are very Skinnerian in nature, presenting reinforcing discoveries, novelties, vistas, spectacles and events on an intermittent schedule that keeps us coming back time and again and ultimately sells the game. This is no accident, and the behavior required for most isn't far from pressing a bar.

--------------Myth: Something that never was true, and always will be.

"The truth will set you free. But not until it is finished with you."- David Foster Wallace

"Here‚Äôs a clue. Snarky banalities are not a substitute for saying something intelligent. Write that down."- Barry Arrington

Try the fallout series - same engine but set in a post apocalyptic world. Very immersive.

Hear hear! Good recommendation, Richard! Love them all, but 3 is just outstanding!

3 was good; in the middle of New Vegas and not enjoying it as much. But like 3, just when you think you're done, a new avenue opens up, as it were.

--------------"But it's disturbing to think someone actually thinks creationism -- having put it's hand on the hot stove every day for the last 400 years -- will get a different result tomorrow." -- midwifetoad

I think that Minecraft's 8-bit blocky lego dynamic is intensely beautiful and creative, and I haven't tired of it yet after playing for 3 months*. It's like Sim City, but with zombies. Don't check it out if you're at all at risk for obsessive behavior.

Portal and Portal II are really fun, and the cooperative problem-solving element of the latter makes it a real kick to play with my 11 year-old daughter.

Dwarf Fortress was fun to read about, but the game-play is so tedious that I seriously wonder if it's not an elaborate hoax.

But I'm really a SERIOUS PERSON who never wastes time on such non-productive silliness.

Dwarf Fortress was fun to read about, but the game-play is so tedious that I seriously wonder if it's not an elaborate hoax.

LOL, true. It is in early alpha, though, there's still hope that at some point Tarn Adams will make the gameplay a little less unyielding. OTOH, a lot of the fun of this game comes from the multiple ways in which you can horribly fail, which is mostly due to its elaborate (euphemism FTW) gameplay. There're even mods out there (e.g. Genesis mod) which make it even more complicated, believe it or not.I mostly mentioned it in this thread because Tarn Adams definitely hasn't read any articles about gameplay design.

I thought about the gamer stereotype that Louis mentioned in his OP, and I think we can all agree that in most cases it doesn't fit, but maybe that is the reason that it comes up so often.It makes it so much easier to say that You Are Not Like That. The stereotype is perpetuated by all the gamers who distance themselves from it. E.g. "I play only one game," "MY social life isn't affected by my casual gaming," "I don't spend much money on games/gaming", "I go to the gym", all with the unsaid "In contrast to REAL gamers" in front of it.

The more interesting question is, why we feel the need to do that.

My theory is there's this idea still floating around that only things that serve a purpose are worth doing and that doing something just because it's entertaining is a waste of time. So, you "don't watch that much television, mostly news and documentaries, really," you put non-fiction books and "literature" in the front row of your book case, and if all else fails, you say that you play DF, which has accurate water physics and a very steep learning curve, or Minecraft, which is very creative, or WoW, which is actually a very positive social experience and helps you improve your real life managment. All of that might be true, but the main reason you play it is that it is entertaining, and, hey, what's wrong with that? At least we aren't overweight or live in the basement.;)

--------------"Random mutations, if they are truly random, will affect, and potentially damage, any aspect of the organism, [...]Thus, a realistic [computer] simulation [of evolution] would allow the program, OS, and hardware to be affected in a random fashion." GilDodgen, Frilly shirt owner

Dwarf Fortress was fun to read about, but the game-play is so tedious that I seriously wonder if it's not an elaborate hoax.

LOL, true. It is in early alpha, though, there's still hope that at some point Tarn Adams will make the gameplay a little less unyielding. OTOH, a lot of the fun of this game comes from the multiple ways in which you can horribly fail, which is mostly due to its elaborate (euphemism FTW) gameplay. There're even mods out there (e.g. Genesis mod) which make it even more complicated, believe it or not.I mostly mentioned it in this thread because Tarn Adams definitely hasn't read any articles about gameplay design.

I thought about the gamer stereotype that Louis mentioned in his OP, and I think we can all agree that in most cases it doesn't fit, but maybe that is the reason that it comes up so often.It makes it so much easier to say that You Are Not Like That. The stereotype is perpetuated by all the gamers who distance themselves from it. E.g. "I play only one game," "MY social life isn't affected by my casual gaming," "I don't spend much money on games/gaming", "I go to the gym", all with the unsaid "In contrast to REAL gamers" in front of it.

The more interesting question is, why we feel the need to do that.

Guilty as charged! And interesting question. I suppose it's as you say, that we're so keen to distance ourselves from a received stereotype, one that has clearly been internalised to some degree, that we apologise before we even act!

Quote

My theory is there's this idea still floating around that only things that serve a purpose are worth doing and that doing something just because it's entertaining is a waste of time. So, you "don't watch that much television, mostly news and documentaries, really," you put non-fiction books and "literature" in the front row of your book case, and if all else fails, you say that you play DF, which has accurate water physics and a very steep learning curve, or Minecraft, which is very creative, or WoW, which is actually a very positive social experience and helps you improve your real life managment. All of that might be true, but the main reason you play it is that it is entertaining, and, hey, what's wrong with that? At least we aren't overweight or live in the basement.;)

Dr Dr: †I had a +5 sweater!GUM of TALKY: †Paladin with an intelligence of 3.DeNews: Charisma †and wisdom 3Gil: †Thought you could not play on the computer unless you whacked it with the mace, wonders why computer stops working.Behe: I never could get out of my irreducibly complex armor.

Germ of Troll: You should not deal in such devil-arts as sorcery. I should know - my former character was corrupted by such arts, but he was saved by the great Divine Blessing of Many Great Words and is now a great human Bard who sings many songs against corruption and the exploitation of all such small lands and...and...and.........and...(add 3426 words of your choice here - he as a great Song of Boring spell that can make all creatures ignore him)

DeNews: Hear ye hear ye! Get thee thy Coffee!

* Joe, being a Behe fanboi, would, of course, boast a mage of a prime number level doncha know...

--------------we IDists rule in design for the flagellum and cilium largely because they do look designed. †Bilbo

The only reason you reject Thor is because, like a cushion, you bear the imprint of the biggest arse that sat on you. Louis

Here's a couple of pics of the computer I was building last weekend. That silver tower on the right is a 6 inch cooling blade tower heatsink.The fan sitting on the DVD bays hooks onto that blade tower to cool it. Not messing with heat no more!

--------------we IDists rule in design for the flagellum and cilium largely because they do look designed. †Bilbo

The only reason you reject Thor is because, like a cushion, you bear the imprint of the biggest arse that sat on you. Louis

First time I played Larry Laffer was on a brand new portable Compac (somewhere around 1988) with orange plasma screen, the next morning my entire back and the back of my arms were red, but I felt no discomfort. I've never experienced anything like that before or after that incident. Strange.

First time I played Larry Laffer was on a brand new portable Compac (somewhere around 1988) with orange plasma screen, the next morning my entire back and the back of my arms were red, but I felt no discomfort. I've never experienced anything like that before or after that incident. Strange.

(Edit typo)

Aaaahhh, Leisure Suit Larry. Many a juvenile erection have I had with those ones...

--------------"Hail is made out of water? Are you really that stupid?" Joe G

"I have a better suggestion, Kris. How about a game of hide and go fuck yourself instead." Louis

"The reason people use a crucifix against vampires is that vampires are allergic to bullshit" Richard Pryor

First time I played Larry Laffer was on a brand new portable Compac (somewhere around 1988) with orange plasma screen, the next morning my entire back and the back of my arms were red, but I felt no discomfort. I've never experienced anything like that before or after that incident. Strange.

(Edit typo)

Aaaahhh, Leisure Suit Larry. Many a juvenile erection have I had with those ones...

Germ of Troll: You should not deal in such devil-arts as sorcery. I should know - my former character was corrupted by such arts, but he was saved by the great Divine Blessing of Many Great Words and is now a great human Bard who sings many songs against corruption and the exploitation of all such small lands and...and...and.........and...(add 3426 words of your choice here - he as a great Song of Boring spell that can make all creatures ignore him)

Gordon throws a flask of Oil of Ad Hominem on the floor in front of the Balrog. †He casts a Spell of Summon Monster and a Straw Man appears nearby. †He waves his Wand of Fireball at the oil, causing the Strawman to ignite and give off a Cloud of Obfuscation. †The Balrog disappears inside his own Prayer of Self-Refuting Materialism.

--------------It's natural to be curious about our world, but the scientific method is just one theory about how to best understand it. †We live in a democracy, which means we should treat every theory equally. - Steven Colbert, I Am America (and So Can You!)

Germ of Troll: You should not deal in such devil-arts as sorcery. I should know - my former character was corrupted by such arts, but he was saved by the great Divine Blessing of Many Great Words and is now a great human Bard who sings many songs against corruption and the exploitation of all such small lands and...and...and.........and...(add 3426 words of your choice here - he as a great Song of Boring spell that can make all creatures ignore him)

Gordon throws a flask of Oil of Ad Hominem on the floor in front of the Balrog. †He casts a Spell of Summon Monster and a Straw Man appears nearby. †He waves his Wand of Fireball at the oil, causing the Strawman to ignite and give off a Cloud of Obfuscation. †The Balrog disappears inside his own Prayer of Self-Refuting Materialism.

THEN THE DIVINE FOOT DESCENDS INTO THE CLOUD OF OILY AD HOMOS

--------------You're obviously illiterate as hell.†Peach, bro.-FtK

Finding something hard to believe based on the evidence, is science.-JoeG

Basically you have a large group of notional 'good guys', but they don't know who anyone else is. You have a small group of notional 'bad guys' and they know the other bad guys.

Each turn goes like this:1) Everyone (bad guys and good guys) discuss and eventually vote on someone to eliminate from the game (lynching).2) Status of the eliminated player is revealed (good guy or bad guy).3) Good guys 'go to sleep' (i.e. are not involved for a little bit)4) Bad guys discuss (usually via PM) and target a good guy to be killed (mob hit)5) Good guys wake and everyone discusses the lynch and mob hit.

The goal of the bad guys is to eliminate good guys until they are the majority of the entire group.

The goal of the good guys is to eliminate the bad guys before the bad guys win.

The referee handles the game: announcing when night occurs, sending out PMs with roles, receiving PMs from players (if needed) and mob boss, announcing the results of lynchings and mob hits and announcing the winning group at the end.

The fun is in the discussion. Each player tries to figure out who the bad guys are and convince everyone else, while the bad guys try to steer conversation away from their mob members and try to keep the good guys paranoid and not thinking straight.

Advanced games can include special roles. If the good guys always lose, then they might have a 'detective' who can investigate a player and learn his role each night or maybe a doctor who can protect one player and that player is immune to a mob hit for that night (if the mob 'hits' that person, then the hit will fail).

Players in the game can ONLY communicate within the game thread except for the bad guys who can communicate about the game somewhere else.

--------------Ignored by those who can't provide evidence for their claims.