Hi Oktane wrote:Teams wouldn't have the cap room to clear if they hadn't made poor investments to begin with.

Agree to a point, in a general "sleep in the bed you made" sense. But it's not good for the game to have, say, Washington in the tank for six years because they stupidly (which was true in real time, and has become only more so as time has progressed) gave Arenas $102 kabillion. The punishment really doesn't fit the crime. I'm not sure the pendulum needs to (or will) swing all the way to NFL-style year-to-year contracts, but there has to be a way for teams to recover when circumstances make a seemingly good deal turn terrible. (And there's some incentive for the players to get on board with that approach, as the money Agent Zero steals from the Wiz is money that can't be paid to other, more deserving players -- particularly true if the league moves towards a hard cap.)

The NBA did institute the Allan Houston amnesty rule a while back, where I believe a team could void a large contract on a one-time basis. You don't hear anything about that rule anymore.

DiminishingSkills wrote:I truly hope that the next CBA gets us closer to having trades that are done purely for basketball reasons, rather than clearing cap room or getting under whatever financial ceiling. As a Cavs fan, I love that they have an owner who is willing to spend, and who is willing to bend teams over backwards to get Mo/Shaq/possibly Amare or Antawn. As a basketball fan, those deals kind of suck. Making trades for financial reasons is not a new phenomenon in sports -- if it were, then Babe Ruth would have played his career in Boston -- but it seems more overt now than ever.

Teams wouldn't have the cap room to clear if they hadn't made poor investments to begin with.

Hi Oktane wrote:Teams wouldn't have the cap room to clear if they hadn't made poor investments to begin with.

Agree to a point, in a general "sleep in the bed you made" sense. But it's not good for the game to have, say, Washington in the tank for six years because they stupidly (which was true in real time, and has become only more so as time has progressed) gave Arenas $102 kabillion. The punishment really doesn't fit the crime. I'm not sure the pendulum needs to (or will) swing all the way to NFL-style year-to-year contracts, but there has to be a way for teams to recover when circumstances make a seemingly good deal turn terrible. (And there's some incentive for the players to get on board with that approach, as the money Agent Zero steals from the Wiz is money that can't be paid to other, more deserving players -- particularly true if the league moves towards a hard cap.)

The NBA did institute the Allan Houston amnesty rule a while back, where I believe a team could void a large contract on a one-time basis. You don't hear anything about that rule anymore.

The team still has to pay the entirety of the contract, even if the player signs with another team (so the player gets paid the entirety of two contracts), and the contract still counts for purposes of determining cap standing (so you can't get under the cap by using this one time exemption). They just don't have to pay the luxury tax on that player's contract. So it doesn't free up any cap money, and they only save the money they are paying in tax on the contract.

I know more about pizza than you. Much more in fact. - Cerebral_DownTime

Papa Cass wrote:The NBA did institute the Allan Houston amnesty rule a while back, where I believe a team could void a large contract on a one-time basis. You don't hear anything about that rule anymore.

That's because the amnesty had to be exercised that season, IIRC. Either you had a contract you wanted to get rid of or you didn't. It wasn't something that a team could pocket and then use a year or two down the line.

ETA: What aoxo said too.

BTW, a piece of trivia I've always liked: the Knicks did not use the Allan Houston rule on Allan Houston.

If it flies, floats, or fornicates, always rent it -- it's cheaper in the long run.

Hi Oktane wrote:Teams wouldn't have the cap room to clear if they hadn't made poor investments to begin with.

Agree to a point, in a general "sleep in the bed you made" sense. But it's not good for the game to have, say, Washington in the tank for six years because they stupidly (which was true in real time, and has become only more so as time has progressed) gave Arenas $102 kabillion. The punishment really doesn't fit the crime. I'm not sure the pendulum needs to (or will) swing all the way to NFL-style year-to-year contracts, but there has to be a way for teams to recover when circumstances make a seemingly good deal turn terrible. (And there's some incentive for the players to get on board with that approach, as the money Agent Zero steals from the Wiz is money that can't be paid to other, more deserving players -- particularly true if the league moves towards a hard cap.)

I tend to agree wth any post that can pply the word "kabillion" to logic.

The cap has many exceptions, perhaps it ought to be more forgiving of injuries for a designated player. Would have helped us when America's favorite NASCAR announcer was snake bit.

Papa Cass wrote:The NBA did institute the Allan Houston amnesty rule a while back, where I believe a team could void a large contract on a one-time basis. You don't hear anything about that rule anymore.

That's because the amnesty had to be exercised that season, IIRC. Either you had a contract you wanted to get rid of or you didn't. It wasn't something that a team could pocket and then use a year or two down the line.

ETA: What aoxo said too.

BTW, a piece of trivia I've always liked: the Knicks did not use the Allan Houston rule on Allan Houston.

I actually thought that too, but from what I saw in my quick search there was nothing about it. The closest was something that said "by October 1" but didn't have a year.

I know more about pizza than you. Much more in fact. - Cerebral_DownTime

Well he is not necessarily wrong but it is just that we are reaping the benefits.

This is what would have happened with the Gasol situation had it played out, only there would have been better offers publicly. Funny how this is playing out yet basically there are no viable alternatives out there. That Miami deal is a pile of crap and they are using 4 guys to try and make it work.

I'm not sure what to make of this or who we end up with. I was leaning toward Jamo as of yesterday but after last night and the Amare comments and word out there now, I am inclined to think it is Amare.

Playing here is the closest thing to heaven. Really, I mean it's amazing to be in a place where the fans truly cherish their football team and stick behind them win or lose. We players love them, too. I feel a sense of accomplishment playing here, we are a special breed of football players with a great opportunity." ~ tOSU LB Brian Rolle

Latest rumor has PHX sending Amare to the Cavs for Anderson Varejao. And then the Cavs will turn around and trade for Antawn Jamison, also for Anderson Varejao, just to make sure he gets the hell out of town.

Now if we saw THAT rumor, we'd know the source for sure.

If it flies, floats, or fornicates, always rent it -- it's cheaper in the long run.

Latest rumor has PHX sending Amare to the Cavs for Anderson Varejao. And then the Cavs will turn around and trade for Antawn Jamison, also for Anderson Varejao, just to make sure he gets the hell out of town.

Media types are sniffing around both sides, and Woj apparently has some in-the-know sources with the league office, but given that there is a ton of information swirling about both the Cavs and the Heat chasing Amare, you'd have to think that most of the scuttlebutt is coming from the hierarchy of the Suns.

Yup, that's a personal foul today. Remind me at the next draft party/ballgame/whateva, and I'll get you the first round of adult beverages. (As long as it's cheap domestic swill, as I have a Dolanesque tolerance for spending. )

If it flies, floats, or fornicates, always rent it -- it's cheaper in the long run.

This is such an insane week to be a Cavs fan, I can't help but be antsy. I'm just hoping Danny makes the right move and has an incredibly keen sense for total player value. Each scenario is a big house of cards, negotiated at length, with a huge MAYBE attached. Would love to be a fly on the wall at the Cavs offices on days like this. What a beautiful buzz.

The State of the TCF is strong. Great thread (& along with the other trade thread). This is the only spot on the web I even care to check for updates. The good turns in the road end up here anyway, usually within 10 minutes.

FTR, I prefer Amare to Jamo, but feel that Kerr is helping Danny lay bait to bring down the price for Jamo. If the Wiz call our bluff, Kerr might jump in and deal anyway- depending on what else he sees but is likely to stand pat if we get Jamo.

So many ways this could go, might be getting to be time to sit stop guessing, just to sit back and watch.

I may be through w/ you for good Hnat. Your buying JB a beer for that? After you tried to bait me into the full out LBJ debate earlier and only offered me more insults for declining hijacking the Amare trade thread?

I'm very close to filing for divorce.

Geezes, did someone steal your favorite rocker or something? Old man bitter, that's what I think.

This is such an insane week to be a Cavs fan, I can't help but be antsy. I'm just hoping Danny makes the right move and has an incredibly keen sense for total player value. Each scenario is a big house of cards, negotiated at length, with a huge MAYBE attached. Would love to be a fly on the wall at the Cavs offices on days like this. What a beautiful buzz.

The State of the TCF is strong. Great thread (& along with the other trade thread). This is the only spot on the web I even care to check for updates. The good turns in the road end up here anyway, usually within 10 minutes.

FTR, I prefer Amare to Jamo, but feel that Kerr is helping Danny lay bait to bring down the price for Jamo. If the Wiz call our bluff, Kerr might jump in and deal anyway- depending on what else he sees but is likely to stand pat if we get Jamo.

So many ways this could go, might be getting to be time to sit stop guessing, just to sit back and watch.

Insane is right. JB spelled "antsy" correctly! Must be the stress.

"At least the Scots didn't have to tune in with the rest of the country and watch their women get plowed by Longshanks and his men."~Commodore Perry on the difference between baseball's flawed economics : Indians :: prima nocta : Scots

I take either with no complaints. A 20 PPG scorer is a pretty nice consolation prize.

Do you realize how freaking awesome this is just on principle? EITHER Antawn or Amare? But it looks like about a 90 percent chance that we're going to get one or the other? The gift horse can have wooden dentures for all I care. I ain't looking.

And whoever gets added will be coming to an already-stacked team. This is the kind of high living that is usually reserved for Yankees and Red Sox fans. Thank you, Dan Gilbert, for being willing to spend, and thank you LBJ for generating the revenue that allows him to spend ... and making sure he and TBO use it to better the team.

(Yeah, I'm being a total homer. Sorry. I'm going to live in the moment because these opportunities are rare.)

I have failed in my attempt to get off of Monster/Rock-Star and failed in my attempt to avoid RCF. I held out until the last 10 minutes.

W&G is teasing again with "Gilbert personally involved", "Phoenix deal looking like it will get done" type stuff. Still nothing new to see. Here was the 1:33 PST, post (about 7 min. ago)

I have to preface this with a strong statement that nothing is official yet ...BUT, just got another call in and it seems that with Dan Gilbert's late input in talks with Phoenix ..we may very well have a commitment coming from Phoenix on an agreement in principle on a deal.

Something positive may be happening in regards to the Amare trade and him coming to Cleveland.. We're getting some very positive indications is what I was just told ... so hold tight.

Don't have a timeline or what the specifics might be at all. Just a phone call from the same guy I talked to about ten minutes ago and he said that we got some very strong indications that Phoenix is leaning with us.

I take either with no complaints. A 20 PPG scorer is a pretty nice consolation prize.

Do you realize how freaking awesome this is just on principle? EITHER Antawn or Amare? But it looks like about a 90 percent chance that we're going to get one or the other? The gift horse can have wooden dentures for all I care. I ain't looking.

And whoever gets added will be coming to an already-stacked team. This is the kind of high living that is usually reserved for Yankees and Red Sox fans. Thank you, Dan Gilbert, for being willing to spend, and thank you LBJ for generating the revenue that allows him to spend ... and making sure he and TBO use it to better the team.

(Yeah, I'm being a total homer. Sorry. I'm going to live in the moment because these opportunities are rare.)

[quote="dmiles"]I have to preface this with a strong statement that nothing is official yet ...BUT, just got another call in and it seems that with Dan Gilbert's late input in talks with Phoenix ..we may very well have a commitment coming from Phoenix on an agreement in principle on a deal.

dmiles wrote:I have failed in my attempt to get off of Monster/Rock-Star and failed in my attempt to avoid RCF. I held out until the last 10 minutes.

W&G is teasing again with "Gilbert personally involved", "Phoenix deal looking like it will get done" type stuff. Still nothing new to see. Here was the 1:33 PST, post (about 7 min. ago)

I have to preface this with a strong statement that nothing is official yet ...BUT, just got another call in and it seems that with Dan Gilbert's late input in talks with Phoenix ..we may very well have a commitment coming from Phoenix on an agreement in principle on a deal.

Something positive may be happening in regards to the Amare trade and him coming to Cleveland.. We're getting some very positive indications is what I was just told ... so hold tight.

Don't have a timeline or what the specifics might be at all. Just a phone call from the same guy I talked to about ten minutes ago and he said that we got some very strong indications that Phoenix is leaning with us.

That Meddling Little Prick! Who does he think he is, getting personally involved. :-)

e0y2e3 wrote:I may be through w/ you for good Hnat. Your buying JB a beer for that? After you tried to bait me into the full out LBJ debate earlier and only offered me more insults for declining hijacking the Amare trade thread? I'm very close to filing for divorce.

Geezes, did someone steal your favorite rocker or something? Old man bitter, that's what I think.

FFS, did your Playstation freeze just as your Bron/Wade/Sasha Vujacic/Chris Quinn/Adonal Foyle team was about to hoist the trophy? You're even more pissed off than usual today, and you usually wake up more pissed off than Simon Cowell in a room full of old dudes singing "pants on the ground".

But we can't get divorced, because we're obviously not married. If we were, we'd be fighting much more often.

If it flies, floats, or fornicates, always rent it -- it's cheaper in the long run.

"There goes Happy heading for the cash machine, gonna buy himself a Middle-Linebacker, that guy got the best player money can buy!"

Swerb wrote:Go start a blog if you want to tell the world your incomprehendible ramblings.

Cerebral_DownTime wrote:I have a big arm and can throw the ball pretty damn far...... maybe even over those moutains. The Browns should sign me, i'll let you all in locker room to drink beer. Then we can all go out the parking lot to watch me do motorcycle stunts.

I take either with no complaints. A 20 PPG scorer is a pretty nice consolation prize.

Do you realize how freaking awesome this is just on principle? EITHER Antawn or Amare? But it looks like about a 90 percent chance that we're going to get one or the other? The gift horse can have wooden dentures for all I care. I ain't looking.

And whoever gets added will be coming to an already-stacked team. This is the kind of high living that is usually reserved for Yankees and Red Sox fans. Thank you, Dan Gilbert, for being willing to spend, and thank you LBJ for generating the revenue that allows him to spend ... and making sure he and TBO use it to better the team.

(Yeah, I'm being a total homer. Sorry. I'm going to live in the moment because these opportunities are rare.)

The more I thought about it today, the more JJ to PHX made sense. If you bring in Jamo and relegate JJ to the bench, I think that's the worst case scenario. I don't think JJ develops as well not being on the first team with LeBron, and I think that ruins his trade value as well.

I like JJ, but I don't see him getting better on the 2nd team. The reason he's starting is to be out there with the guys who take all the pressure off of him. He's a guy I think they almost need to move now. I think I prefer Jamo's "fit" here better than Amar'e, but I think you have to make Kerr make that deal. STAT is the best use of our resources.

Playing here is the closest thing to heaven. Really, I mean it's amazing to be in a place where the fans truly cherish their football team and stick behind them win or lose. We players love them, too. I feel a sense of accomplishment playing here, we are a special breed of football players with a great opportunity." ~ tOSU LB Brian Rolle