Your welcome to your differing opinion, no need to apologize. I'm just convinced that many of you have an opinion that revolves around whatever Blizzard deems is correct. If that's not you I apologize and it was misdirected.

---------- Post added 2012-10-06 at 09:12 PM ----------

Originally Posted by crejack

it hasn't even been a full 2 weeks, and you've already rage quit because you couldn't get the best gear available despite ONLY running a dungeon a grand total of 2x per day(for just that 1 boss). that's just sad.

I'm not raging, I'm trying to make a point about how unrewarding dungeons will be now and in the long run if something isn't done. I still have yet to hear anyone tell me I"m wrong they are just as rewarding. The simple fact is by any comparative measure they aren't. As far as I can tell for no good reason... You may like that they suck and that's fine.

The hammer comes down:

Originally Posted by Osmeric

Normal should be reduced in difficulty. Heroic should be reduced in difficulty.
And the tiny fraction for whom heroic raids are currently well tuned? Too bad,so sad! With the arterial bleed of subs the fastest it's ever been, the vanity development that gives you guys your own content is no longer supportable.

At the moment you are only able to get x amount of rep a day with a faction from dailies (excluding ones that allow rep outside of dailies, Cloud serpents etc). So what if they allowed tabards to let you get the same x amount of rep per day in dungeons but no more. It would just be an alternate way to dailies i cant really see any downside. And for elder charms etc maybe you get x amount of those at the end of the dungeon, valor rewards are already there.

You've got to be kidding me. This has been the least rewarding dungeon experience I've ever had in this game and I"ve been grinding my face off in dungeons for at least 6 years now. It's piss easy so theirs no sense of personal reward from it. The rate that you acquire jp and vp at is slow as hell so it doesn't feel rewarding from a gear perspective. The JP is also worthless because the gear is just so bad. The drops you need are subject to such huge amounts of rng I end up leaving dungeons before they finish anyway because the boss I need doesn't drop the loot I need. I don't get rep and it doesn't look like their going to make that happen any time soon. WHAT THE FUCK IS REWARDING ABOUT DUNGEONS? Look I swore I would never start a thread in this general forum because it will just get shouted down but I can't fucking help it. Please don't shout this down with bullshit, I'm just so stunned they feel this way.

So because you're too lazy to finish a dungeon or just hate helping anyone else get the gear they need doesn't mean they are not rewarding. It just means you want gear mailed to you or need to start playing a single player game.

At the moment you are only able to get x amount of rep a day with a faction from dailies (excluding ones that allow rep outside of dailies, Cloud serpents etc). So what if they allowed tabards to let you get the same x amount of rep per day in dungeons but no more. It would just be an alternate way to dailies i cant really see any downside. And for elder charms etc maybe you get x amount of those at the end of the dungeon, valor rewards are already there.

That would be awesome. It is a change that has been proposed by very many. However if you read the original post I quoted they basically said no not gonna happen. Ghostcrawler has also let several tweets go that this isn't going to happen. It is rather stunning given their design goal or one of them at any rate was choice in how people play this expansion.

The hammer comes down:

Originally Posted by Osmeric

Normal should be reduced in difficulty. Heroic should be reduced in difficulty.
And the tiny fraction for whom heroic raids are currently well tuned? Too bad,so sad! With the arterial bleed of subs the fastest it's ever been, the vanity development that gives you guys your own content is no longer supportable.

Your welcome to your differing opinion, no need to apologize. I'm just convinced that many of you have an opinion that revolves around whatever Blizzard deems is correct. If that's not you I apologize and it was misdirected.

---------- Post added 2012-10-06 at 09:12 PM ----------

I'm not raging, I'm trying to make a point about how unrewarding dungeons will be now and in the long run if something isn't done. I still have yet to hear anyone tell me I"m wrong they are just as rewarding. The simple fact is by any comparative measure they aren't. As far as I can tell for no good reason... You may like that they suck and that's fine.

Dude you quit in less then 2 weeks. you can lie all you want about how your not mad but this whole thread has been WAHHHHHH I WANT MY GEAR NOW!!!!!!!!!! yeah, you are most definately raging. Chill dude. it's a game.

So because you're too lazy to finish a dungeon or just hate helping anyone else get the gear they need doesn't mean they are not rewarding. It just means you want gear mailed to you or need to start playing a single player game.

Why would I finish something that has next to no reward from me in it? Charity for the other players in my group? I don't hate helping people I help my friends and guildies all the time. Why I would want to help random dudes on another server is another matter entirely though.. The dungeons are simply not rewarding by any comparative measure.

---------- Post added 2012-10-06 at 09:18 PM ----------

Originally Posted by crejack

Dude you quit in less then 2 weeks. you can lie all you want about how your not mad but this whole thread has been WAHHHHHH I WANT MY GEAR NOW!!!!!!!!!! yeah, you are most definately raging. Chill dude. it's a game.

Yea I quit in less than two weeks because I can tell currently the game is not for me. Theirs simply to much reliance on daily quests and not enough in the instancing. Why is that so strange? and why does that mean I have to be mad? I recognize what they were after and why they did it this way I simply disagree with them.

The hammer comes down:

Originally Posted by Osmeric

Normal should be reduced in difficulty. Heroic should be reduced in difficulty.
And the tiny fraction for whom heroic raids are currently well tuned? Too bad,so sad! With the arterial bleed of subs the fastest it's ever been, the vanity development that gives you guys your own content is no longer supportable.

Seems there are a lot of people in this thread that think you are being forced to do dailies.
...
The problem is the "I need it now" mentality that people have in Warcraft.

It's about "best possible raidperformance" - even if i never was in a top100-guild, i want to be prepared for my raid as good as possible. If i want that - i HAVE to do the dailys so i can get AND spend the vp. I'm aware that this attitude is my personal "problem" - but i just can't stand the feeling, that i could have prevented a 1%-wipe if i "just did my homework".

I could counter that the "you don't have to do them" is the mentality of slackers that come to raid unenchanted, without flasks and/or buff-food or have to take a break after 2 wipes for repairing but I don't want to measure everyone with the same yardstick.

Why would I finish something that has next to no reward from me in it? Charity for the other players in my group? I don't hate helping people I help my friends and guildies all the time. Why I would want to help random dudes on another server is another matter entirely though.. The dungeons are simply not rewarding by any comparative measure.

Why does it need to be comparative? If you want to compare the dungeons to previous ones then they are much better as the loot that drops from them has a much higher ilevel. Now if that gear doesn't drop for you then it's just as rewarding as previous dungeons since that gear was not guaranteed to drop either.

They should implement another 'charm of good fortune' like stuff that you can buy with justice, to relieve some of the 'pain' with the endless grind. It would work the same way as the current ones, but only work in dungeons.

At least that increases the chance of someone getting the gear they want.
Not a guaranteed thing like getting gear straight away through justice, but it seems they're(blizzard) 'against' that at the moment, judging from their reluctance to make justice gear 463 level (even after the buff).

On that note, I wish lesser charm of good fortunes are just currencies.... Even after they changed it to stack to 180 I still have 3 slots of my bag occupied by them >.<

EDIT: I don't have a problem with the current system, and do think dungeons are rewarding 'enough' (which is subjective).
I just think that a 'charm' system may give more use to justice points.

It's about "best possible raidperformance" - even if i never was in a top100-guild, i want to be prepared for my raid as good as possible. If i want that - i HAVE to do the dailys so i can get AND spend the vp. I'm aware that this attitude is my personal "problem" - but i just can't stand the feeling, that i could have prevented a 1%-wipe if i "just did my homework".

I could counter that the "you don't have to do them" is the mentality of slackers that come to raid unenchanted, without flasks and/or buff-food or have to take a break after 2 wipes for repairing but I don't want to measure everyone with the same yardstick.

In this case, it's understandable. But in OP's case, it's just whining.

I have to agree with BLizzard on this one. The dungeon system of rewards, and the Rep Grinds are exactly what was/is needed. It is easy as effort to have been Raid Ready when the 1st tier of the expansion was released. I'm a scrub and I was ready. If you aren't getting enough loot, I seriously suspect you will never be satisfied.

Anyone who would start a LFR group and drop just after the Boss fight that has their desired item isn't worth listening to. I mean, these dungeons are just a stepping stone, but the OP wants them to be the proverbial "Loot Pinata".

Not rewarding enough..... that is a laugh. To increase the rate of rewards would be to set us right back to where we were at the end of Cata. And no one was happy then. I don;t get like this often but, I think this Thread deserves the "L2P or GT*O" cliche. Simple as that.

In this case, it's understandable. But in OP's case, it's just whining.

Not really. My case is very similar. Even though I don't raid regularly I still want to be able to progress and grow my character and do the best job that I can.

The hammer comes down:

Originally Posted by Osmeric

Normal should be reduced in difficulty. Heroic should be reduced in difficulty.
And the tiny fraction for whom heroic raids are currently well tuned? Too bad,so sad! With the arterial bleed of subs the fastest it's ever been, the vanity development that gives you guys your own content is no longer supportable.

Why does it need to be comparative? If you want to compare the dungeons to previous ones then they are much better as the loot that drops from them has a much higher ilevel. Now if that gear doesn't drop for you then it's just as rewarding as previous dungeons since that gear was not guaranteed to drop either.

Because if you liked how it work the last couple of expansions then you'll be severely disappointed in this one and it wouldn't feel as rewarding. I mean how else can you say it's rewarding or it's not except for by some comparative or relative standard? It's not the ilvl of course that always changes it's the relative amount of reward you get compared to the relative amount of reward you got from the previous dungeons. Obviously the gear is high item level but we have to compare apples to apples.

The hammer comes down:

Originally Posted by Osmeric

Normal should be reduced in difficulty. Heroic should be reduced in difficulty.
And the tiny fraction for whom heroic raids are currently well tuned? Too bad,so sad! With the arterial bleed of subs the fastest it's ever been, the vanity development that gives you guys your own content is no longer supportable.

Likewise, the gear from dungeons is a *HUGE* reward, without allowing dungeons to also serve as the key to unlocking epics. I loathe questing, but I don't mind the daily grind so much knowing that its actually getting me something.

My only caveat would be that the valor points feel a little low and justice points feel a little useless. (especially in scenarios)

it's not the same at all. he's complaining cause he doesn't want his friends to wipe and to cause them to succeed. Your just bitching because RNG hates you. nothing more.

No I'm complaining that dungeons simply aren't as rewarding as they were before. Please try and keep up.

---------- Post added 2012-10-06 at 09:28 PM ----------

Originally Posted by Uricidea

I have to agree with BLizzard on this one. The dungeon system of rewards, and the Rep Grinds are exactly what was/is needed. It is easy as effort to have been Raid Ready when the 1st tier of the expansion was released. I'm a scrub and I was ready. If you aren't getting enough loot, I seriously suspect you will never be satisfied.

Anyone who would start a LFR group and drop just after the Boss fight that has their desired item isn't worth listening to. I mean, these dungeons are just a stepping stone, but the OP wants them to be the proverbial "Loot Pinata".

Not rewarding enough..... that is a laugh. To increase the rate of rewards would be to set us right back to where we were at the end of Cata. And no one was happy then. I don;t get like this often but, I think this Thread deserves the "L2P or GT*O" cliche. Simple as that.

*sigh* It's sad when the official forums have better discussion than these. I'm done feel free to troll the fuck out of this thread, hell I might do it. I've been straw manned to death it seems. How utterly sad and disappointing.

The hammer comes down:

Originally Posted by Osmeric

Normal should be reduced in difficulty. Heroic should be reduced in difficulty.
And the tiny fraction for whom heroic raids are currently well tuned? Too bad,so sad! With the arterial bleed of subs the fastest it's ever been, the vanity development that gives you guys your own content is no longer supportable.

The only problem I currently have with the Dungeons/raids is the RNG dropping items that no one in the group can use. For example, a 5 man with no mail wearers and all the bosses dropping mail. Pointless.

Actually it hasn't turned out that way for the most part. I've had rather good conversations with people.

I'm glad for you that your conversations have turned out fruitful, but the negative under tones to your original post with your statement of "but I can't fucking help it" not only discredits your intelligence, with the unnecessary use of profanity, but also your future credibility should you post more (at least by me) by claiming that you couldn't help but spread discontent. That you were simply incapable and/or didn't have the willpower to not push the button to start a thread that ultimately consisted of your personal complaints towards the direction the game is taking at the moment. That is, unless you want to post a picture of yourself at gunpoint being forced to have this conversation in which case I'd advise contacting your local law enforcement as opposed to continuing the conversation here.

Also, in terms of "keeping up" you complain that you are being straw maned, or misrepresented, when in fact you started the thread and have been consistently quoted within within what appeared to be a troll posting to begin with.

All I'm saying is, perhaps you should take a moment and re-read over the threads you start, specifically when angry, to determine if the tone and wording are really what you are attempting to express because you may end up coming off quite differently than expected. Either that or screw civility and bang your head on the keyboard a few times at random, it's the Internets and I have Francis and porn to watch; just hope I do it in the right order...