In all fairness to the Iranian pilots, Iran only has a handful of that kind of plane, and they're probably falling apart with age-so the pilots don't get much in the way of training time, actually flying them.

Chances are, the 'dogfight' was less Highway to the Danger Zone and more along the lines of 'Hey, Achmed, which button fires the guns again? I thought it was the blue one'

So, yeah, still not really compelling evidence that they're a military threat.

Yet Iran managed to intercept and land unscathed a top-secret stealth RQ-170 drone which really pissed off the US. They must have fixed the vulnerability.The question is, was this a stealth drone or not, and did their assumed reverse-engineering of the stealth technology on the RQ-170 lead to them detecting it? The US must have balls of steel to do this and risk exposure. Not sure what right a foreign nation has flying a drone in another country. We certainly wouldn't stand for it...

detritus:Yet Iran managed to intercept and land unscathed a top-secret stealth RQ-170 drone which really pissed off the US. They must have fixed the vulnerability.The question is, was this a stealth drone or not, and did their assumed reverse-engineering of the stealth technology on the RQ-170 lead to them detecting it? The US must have balls of steel to do this and risk exposure. Not sure what right a foreign nation has flying a drone in another country. We certainly wouldn't stand for it...

Allen262:Iran used Su-25s. You know GROUND ATTACK aircraft? This would be like the U.S. sending up A-10s to shoot down a aircraft.

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DOesnt matter what they sent. If they cant hit a simple target like that with guns, then there isnt much hope for them. The fact that it was ground attack aircraft is even worse, they could have gotten much closer to that drone than they could any ground target.

Also, A-10 have been shown effective against slow moving air to air targets like helicopters...which are as fast and more maneuverable than that drone.

Bottom line is there is really no excuse for them not hitting the drone, even with the aircraft in question. Id venture a bet a properly experienced Russian or Chinese SU-25 pilot would have dropped that drone with ease. Id say the problem here is likely a combination of poor maintenance (lack of sight calibration) and poor pilot training and/or experience.

But really, go ahead and tell us how Iran would destroy the US or NATO in a war...go on...

I flew Preds from 2005-2012, they certainly aren't 9G fighters, but they can turn in a tight radius. The Pred's slow speed, the SU-25's design, the Iranians' training and some possible maneuvers probably combined to keep the Predator from getting shot down. Against a trained pilot in an air-air fighter (F-15/16/Mig-29...etc.), we're toast.

toraque:In all fairness to the Iranian pilots, Iran only has a handful of that kind of plane, and they're probably falling apart with age-so the pilots don't get much in the way of training time, actually flying them.

Chances are, the 'dogfight' was less Highway to the Danger Zone and more along the lines of 'Hey, Achmed, which button fires the guns again? I thought it was the blue one'

So, yeah, still not really compelling evidence that they're a military threat.

I lol'd.

"What about this handle with the red button?"*Pilot ejects co-pilots seat*

detritus:Yet Iran managed to intercept and land unscathed a top-secret stealth RQ-170 drone which really pissed off the US. They must have fixed the vulnerability.The question is, was this a stealth drone or not, and did their assumed reverse-engineering of the stealth technology on the RQ-170 lead to them detecting it? The US must have balls of steel to do this and risk exposure. Not sure what right a foreign nation has flying a drone in another country. We certainly wouldn't stand for it...

This doesn't really surprise me. Slow, small things are hard to hit with large, fast jets.

The complaint of Me 262 pilots attacking bomber streams in 1945 was that they had so little time to aim and fire given the speed disparity. The reaction of the bomber crews was "what the fark was that?"

I believe the point is that a nuclear weapon is a bit more complicated than a missile but Iran can't seem to get even their missiles to work. Yet we've been bombarded for nearly a decade with propaganda about how Iran is always "a few months away" from building a nuke and how we simply MUST go in there right now and bomb something "before it's too late."

I imagine if they really wanted to shoot it down, they would have. It was over international waters; this looks like the kind of crap the Soviets used to do with our ships in the Black Sea. Playing chicken, bumping, etc.

I believe the point is that a nuclear weapon is a bit more complicated than a missile but Iran can't seem to get even their missiles to work. Yet we've been bombarded for nearly a decade with propaganda about how Iran is always "a few months away" from building a nuke and how we simply MUST go in there right now and bomb something "before it's too late."

Well, we've got at least 4 more years until some yahoo is elected that wants a general mobilization.

knbber2:I flew Preds from 2005-2012, they certainly aren't 9G fighters, but they can turn in a tight radius. The Pred's slow speed, the SU-25's design, the Iranians' training and some possible maneuvers probably combined to keep the Predator from getting shot down. Against a trained pilot in an air-air fighter (F-15/16/Mig-29...etc.), we're toast.

Is 2-3 hours seat time /month "trained"?I for one, am surprised they can get those planes in the air.

All2morrowsparTs:detritus: Yet Iran managed to intercept and land unscathed a top-secret stealth RQ-170 drone which really pissed off the US. They must have fixed the vulnerability.The question is, was this a stealth drone or not, and did their assumed reverse-engineering of the stealth technology on the RQ-170 lead to them detecting it? The US must have balls of steel to do this and risk exposure. Not sure what right a foreign nation has flying a drone in another country. We certainly wouldn't stand for it...

This was over international airspace.

says the US military. The Iranians claim they were over Iranian air space. I highly doubt that Iran is going to send air to ground fighters in to International airspace looking for drones to shoot down.

If the Iranians were flying drones near or over our airspace I think the response would be a lot worse than firing on the drone.

Classic case of dissimilar aircraft with radically different energy profiles: the drone flies slow and thus can turn around in a very short space, just a few lengths of its own body. The fast-mover jet takes 2 to 6 miles to make a 180 turn in the horizontal plane; he'd have to pull up into a yo-yo, to turn around without creating vast separation from the drone. When the jet goes too slowly, its control is sloppy and thus guns are less accurate. It's too asymmetrical a fight, one of those situations like when a tiny fast boat can get up close to a large battleship, so close that it's beneath the depression angle of those massive guns. Th naval gun may have a 25 mile range, but it can't hit shiat that's 50 yards away.

Allen262:Iran used Su-25s. You know GROUND ATTACK aircraft? This would be like the U.S. sending up A-10s to shoot down a aircraft.

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Came here to say this, but I see several beat me to it. The A-10 at least has a high rate of fire cannon with a decent amount of ammo. The autocannon on the SU-25 doesn't come close and I doubt they'd want to waste their expensive AA missiles on a drone.