Tim W.: I can understand where you're coming from with wanting to see the Raptors rebuild, but I dont think it's ever going to happen -- or, at least, the roster you see right now is the closest we're going to get. I dont think BC is ever going to make a move that he thinks will make the team do badly in the regular season. That isn't what MLSE hired him for. MLSE wants us making the playoffs every year, because that makes most fans happy and sells merchandise. Of course they want a championship, but they don't want to endure 5 years of losing to get a shot.

On the upside, 'rebuilding' is not at all the only way to win a championship. The Lakers did not get where they are by rebuilding. Neither did Boston. Fans like the concept because they can understand the logic of it, but in the real world, it's not even all that common as the road to the championship. The main way is just good trades. No special reason the Raptors can't do that, although of course it's unlikely (since winnign a championship is always unlikely).

totally agree man the clips have been rebuilding for years and they suck lol

The Lakers had one of the top three offensive threats in the game and were gifted a phenomenal big man, while having probably the best coach possible for their team and an owner who had no qualms with spending money. Boston had assets and turned them into three Hall-of-Famers who fit together well, just a little past their prime at the time. They also literally bought Rondo from the cost-cutting Suns.

I'm sure teams rebuilding the way OKC and Portland did happens more often than that, at least.

Tim W.: I can understand where you're coming from with wanting to see the Raptors rebuild, but I dont think it's ever going to happen -- or, at least, the roster you see right now is the closest we're going to get. I dont think BC is ever going to make a move that he thinks will make the team do badly in the regular season. That isn't what MLSE hired him for. MLSE wants us making the playoffs every year, because that makes most fans happy and sells merchandise. Of course they want a championship, but they don't want to endure 5 years of losing to get a shot.

On the upside, 'rebuilding' is not at all the only way to win a championship. The Lakers did not get where they are by rebuilding. Neither did Boston. Fans like the concept because they can understand the logic of it, but in the real world, it's not even all that common as the road to the championship. The main way is just good trades. No special reason the Raptors can't do that, although of course it's unlikely (since winnign a championship is always unlikely).

I have no idea whether it's going to happen, but it's certainly the right thing to do, in my opinion. When a team makes the playoffs twice in eight years, maybe it's time to do something different.

The Lakers got where they are by dumping their roster, opening up cap room and signing Shaq and drafting Kobe in one summer. Once you have your superstar, then the rest is a lot easier.

Boston got to where they are because Kevin McHale completely f**ked up in Minnesota and did Ainge a favour.

Of all the superstars, the clear majority were drafted by their team. Most NBA FInals MVPs and MVPs were drafted by their team (or traded for before they played). It's incredibly difficult to get a franchise player except through the draft, and it's incredibly difficult to do it if you're not one of the few desirable locations in the NBA.

Most fans actually don't want their team to rebuild. It's usually only the educated fans that do. Regular fans simply want to be able to go to a game and watch a competitive team. That's exactly why most teams don't like to rebuild. GMs don't like using the word because it scares fans. Fans pay lots of money to go watch games, and if they know a team is rebuilding, they won't spend the money. That's why Colangelo backtracked during the press conference when he mentioned rebuilding.

saints91 wrote:

hmmmmm maybe I mean loosing. Before Vince there was a lot of rebuilding going on.

The thing with rebuilding is that you have to be able to keep those stud players that you draft. We can't do that! We are not a team that builds through free agency because most American players don't want to come here. So our option is have a predominately European team or trade for good players with long term contracts. Drafts are important and we have three young players that can be good for this team. To keep these guys we have to have to start winning and make this a franchise players want to come to.

Losing sucks. But the Raptors have been able to keep their two best players they drafted for a good long while. Both Vince and Bosh both left because the team was not built the right way around them. Vince was surrounded by veterans who helped him win immediately, but hurt the team long term. Bosh was never surrounded by a consistent core of players that would grow with him.

This was exactly the problem Cleveland had with LeBron and why he probably left. They surrounded him with veterans because they wanted him to win immediately, but they kept having to reload, and he never had consistency and few developed players.

Oklahoma City is such a great example of what to do because Durant is surrounded by players who will get better with him, not decline as he gets better and have to be replaced.

As for keeping the young players, you don't have to start winning immediately. That's a VERY short sighted solution. That's what Colangelo tried to do with Bosh. It doesn't work. The team has a few years before the young players have to be re-signed, and they don't necessarily have to be winning, but be in a good position to win in the future. If DeRozan sees the framework of a successful team, there will be no reason for him to go elsewhere.

The idea of developing young gunz sounds promising, however you guys forget to remember that all young players developed by Raptors deserted before they reach their potential (Damon, Vince, Tracy, Chris). The most important thing for Raptors is to get players that are committed to play in Toronto, not attention whores that are ready any time to bolt just to get a ring by pairing with others.

Can somebody tell me what "retooling" is? Does that mean since our biggest tool (Bosh) has just left, we're going to go out and recruit a new tool? I hear AI is looking to play again. He's a pretty big tool.

As far as I'm concerned, the Raps might as well start vacuuming up draft picks for the next couple of years and start building around the kids they've got. I'm tired of cheering for tools.

If that wasn't sarcasm, retooling is a compromise between rebuilding and contending. Constantly looking for bandaid solutions for the short term instead of trying to make solid moves with a long term view.

Can somebody tell me what "retooling" is? Does that mean since our biggest tool (Bosh) has just left, we're going to go out and recruit a new tool? I hear AI is looking to play again. He's a pretty big tool.

As far as I'm concerned, the Raps might as well start vacuuming up draft picks for the next couple of years and start building around the kids they've got. I'm tired of cheering for tools.

retooling is over paying fan favorite players by 30-40% to keep them happy while they are really a glorified garbage man.
retooling means signing some meaningless FAs to give the illusion to some fans that we can compete.
retooling is taking a future of the team hostage and having no real plan to fix things.

Looks Like S&T With Heat Is Going To Happen

HT: Liston Tweet

Heat tying up loose ends with Chris Bosh, Mike Miller

The Heat also is finishing off a sign-and-trade agreement with the Toronto Raptors that will allow recently acquired power forward Chris Bosh to receive a six-year free-agent contract instead of the maximum five-year contract an outside free agent can receive. The Raptors, in turn, will receive a package of draft picks from the Heat and a trade exception of roughly $15 million.

The idea of developing young gunz sounds promising, however you guys forget to remember that all young players developed by Raptors deserted before they reach their potential (Damon, Vince, Tracy, Chris). The most important thing for Raptors is to get players that are committed to play in Toronto, not attention whores that are ready any time to bolt just to get a ring by pairing with others.

Actually, Vince left AFTER he had peaked, and Bosh certainly reached his potential in Toronto. In fact, I don't think he's ever going to achieve the individual success he had in Toronto again. So your statement isn't true.

The ESPN report said that they also agreed to swap future first round picks, though it doesn't say for what year. Regardless I can't see Minnesota being good any time soon, so it could turn out to be a nice addition down the line.

if the s&t does go through, i think it will be good because at least we got something for Bosh. But, really, who can we really get for $16 mil without overpaying? i mean there are probably a lot of players in the league who are worth $16 mil but realistically, who will want to join the Raptors who is now officially halfway through a rebuilding process? plus our massive tax and crazy weather? plus the notion that franchise players no matter how good they are cant win here?

i love this team and city, but its a fact that the Raptors cannot acquire but rather can only create their own superstars. Can somebody tell me who the Raps have acquired, throughout the years, who was a superstar or even borderline superstar while they were still in their prime or at least approaching it through a signing or even a trade?