Granted this series focuses on Texas, you need to keep in mind AZ is the kidnapping capital of our country. This is what is leaking into our country because the Fed Gov doesn't want to enforce border security

And the President of Mexico had the fucking nerve to slam our country and the law in AZ???

KC native

05-22-2010, 12:22 AM

JFC pete, the only reason the Zetas exist is because of the drug war. Legalize drugs and they disappear.

Also, the cartel wars are beginning to slow a little. The Sinaloa Cartel is winning the battle for Juarez. Once they seize it, IMO you will see violence drop dramatically. Sinaloa is the relatively smart cartel. Chapo has said that if the government leaves them alone then they won't fuck with the government. That's not the case with the other cartels. The other cartels (Zetas, La Familia, and Gulf) are the ones trying to fight each other and the government.

Also, the violence on the US side is dropping
http://www.cnn.com/2010/CRIME/04/29/arizona.immigration.crime/index.html

* FBI statistics: Violent crimes reported declined by nearly 1,500 over four years
* Reported property crimes also fell, by about 8,000, between 2005 and 2008
* CNN Fact Check: Kidnapping is up in Phoenix, but murderers' status can't be proven
* Arizona immigration trends murky, largely due to declining border apprehensions

(CNN) -- High levels of illegal immigration and crimes committed by unauthorized immigrants are among the key rationales cited by some supporters of a tough new immigration law in Arizona.

"Border violence and crime due to illegal immigration are critically important issues to the people of our state," Arizona Gov. Jan Brewer said at the signing of the controversial bill, SB 1070. "There is no higher priority than protecting the citizens of Arizona. We cannot sacrifice our safety to the murderous greed of the drug cartels. We cannot stand idly by as drop houses, kidnappings and violence compromise our quality of life."

Yet, a look at statistics from the U.S. Customs and Border Protection agency and the FBI indicate that both the number of illegal crossers and violent crime in general have actually decreased in the past several years.

According to FBI statistics, violent crimes reported in Arizona dropped by nearly 1,500 reported incidents between 2005 and 2008. Reported property crimes also fell, from about 287,000 reported incidents to 279,000 in the same period. These decreases are accentuated by the fact that Arizona's population grew by 600,000 between 2005 and 2008.

According to the nonpartisan Immigration Policy Institute, proponents of the bill "overlook two salient points: Crime rates have already been falling in Arizona for years despite the presence of unauthorized immigrants, and a century's worth of research has demonstrated that immigrants are less likely to commit crimes or be behind bars than the native-born."

Backers of the bill maintain that crime is a key reason for the necessity of the tough immigration law.

Arizona state Sen. Russell Pearce this week told CNN's Tony Harris that half the murders in Phoenix are committed by unauthorized immigrants and that the city is the second in the world in kidnappings.

A CNN Fact Check found that the senator's claim about the murders in Phoenix cannot be proven, but he did have police statistics to back up his claims of the city's high number of kidnappings, although its exact standing in the world is not clear.

In Maricopa County, which includes Phoenix, Sheriff Joe Arpaio has long been an advocate of tough measures against illegal immigration. His officers already check the immigration status of people they detain for other crimes, he said.

"We've been doing it for a long time, but this [law] gives us just a little more authority," Arpaio told CNN.

One way that Arpaio says he measures his success is that he hears that immigrants who entered the country illegally are leaving his county.

"It's a good indicator," he said.

Statewide illegal immigration trends are harder to gauge.

One aspect of it is the number of apprehensions of unauthorized immigrants made by the U.S. Customs and Border Protection agency. Since a peak in 2000 of more than 600,000 illegal crossers apprehended, the number fell to 241,000 in 2009, Tucson Sector Public Affairs Officer Mario Escalante told CNN.

"We've seen a steady decline," he said.

Intelligence-driven operations have increased the effectiveness of the Border Patrol's efforts, he added.

Meanwhile, the cartel violence that has gripped Mexico for the most part has remained there, he said.

Human and drug smugglers are being "more aggressive because we're being successful," Escalante said, "But we've been lucky not to see that type of [violence] spill over here."

petegz28

05-22-2010, 12:32 AM

Native you really crack me up. Legalizing marijuana is not something I am against. But that isn't the point. Mexico's problems are becoming our problems. Our lack of border security is allowing this crap to leak into the country. Personaly I don't give a flying fuck about Mexico. If their government wants to be controlled by drug dealers that is their problem. But when you make it our problem then something must be done. Innocent Americans pay the price for this shit. Not just gang members. And legalizing drugs is not going to happen anytime soon. And I am not sure that would fix it anyway.

Wednesday's White House dinner with Mexico's president Felipe Calderón may serve as the culmination of President Obama's failed strategy of appeasement. Obama has not demanded concrete results in the "drug war" or asked hard questions about human rights, corruption and judicial reform. The administration has been distracted by a sweet-talking Mexican foreign policy team. If Obama wants to help reduce violence south of the border, it is time for him to stop playing Calderón's game and to exercise real leadership in North America.

The Calderón administration has gained U.S acquiescence by periodically extraditing drug lords, responding to U.S. intelligence with round-ups, and welcoming American military and law enforcement into Mexican territory. On the surface, Calderón's right wing Party of National Action (PAN) appears to be more pro-American than its predecessor, the old guard Party of the Institutional Revolution (PRI). Fearing that the PRI may soon return to power, Washington has adopted Calderón as its favorite son.

But the truth is that Calderón is directly responsible for the violence which has taken 22,000 plus lives over the past three years in Mexico. This violence today threatens to spill over to the U.S. After three years of Calderón's administration, there is no sign of improvement.

The number of killings has increased and fear has taken hold of the Mexican population. Recently, a single gunshot fired into the air created a panic at a fairgrounds in Monterrey, crushing five people to death and injuring dozens more. In the popular vacation spot of Cuernavaca, a threatening email attributed to a notorious drug lord completely emptied the streets on a beautiful Friday evening.

In the state of Tamaulipas, which shares a border with Texas, respectable people are increasingly unwilling to run for public office out of fear of the drug cartels. This past Thursday, one of the mayoral candidates in an important town in the state was assassinated in broad daylight. This Saturday, a powerful politician from the ruling PAN party mysteriously disappeared from his ranch in the state of Querétaro. Blood stains were found in his abandoned vehicle.

The violence goes far beyond drug related crimes. Two weeks ago, an international humanitarian caravan was gunned down on its way to an indigenous village in Oaxaca. Both a Mexican and a Finnish human rights activist were killed, and two journalists were injured, by an armed group apparently linked to government authorities.

A recent independent study documented 244 assaults against journalists in 2009. This includes the assassination of a dozen reporters as well as the use of physical violence, death threats and court cases to intimidate independent media organizations. Contrary to popular belief, in the vast majority of these incidents, government officials -- not drug cartels -- are the principal suspects.

Calderón has done little or nothing to combat corruption in law enforcement. He has scaled down existing anti-corruption agencies, entrusted their work to political loyalists and insisted on superficial "confidence reviews". The periodic discovery of lists of public officials in the pocket of organized crime is therefore hardly surprising.

But the most worrisome concern is that Calderón and his public security chief Genaro García Luna, may in fact favor one of the most powerful drug cartels, the Sinaloa Cartel. The Associated Press and NPR have pointed out that recent arrests have hit top leaders in every Mexican drug cartel except this one. Joaquín Guzmán, the cartel´s leader, is on the Forbes list of the wealthiest people in the world. He is clearly the dominant figure in the Mexican drug business. His right hand man, "el Mayo" Zambada, recently even felt confident enough to give an exclusive interview to Mexico´s foremost news magazine, Proceso.

Nevertheless, Obama regularly celebrates Calderón's "bravery" and "unwavering commitment" in combating the drug cartels. In taking this approach, Obama is privileging short term political support over long term solutions.

This is unfortunately a long-standing feature of American policy. Richard Nixon supported Augusto Pinochet's coup d'etat in Chile in 1973. Ronald Reagan defended the dictators of El Salvador, Honduras and Nicaragua during the 1980s. And Obama today is supporting Calderon as supposedly the best of bad options: better an ineffective but pro-American Mexican president than the return of the PRI, or the rise of the "populist" left.

But the real American interest is peace and sustainable development south of the border, not the political success of Calderón. Obama and Congress should take advantage of Calderón´s visit to Washington this week to send a clear signal that the Mexican president needs to clean up his act at home if he wants to continue to receive U.S. support in the future.

John M. Ackerman is a professor at the Institute for Legal Research at the National Autonomous University of Mexico, Editor-in-chief of the Mexican Law Review and a columnist for La Jornada newspaper and Proceso magazine. Contact: www.johnackerman.blogspot.com

John M. Ackerman is a professor at the Institute for Legal Research at the National Autonomous University of Mexico, Editor-in-chief of the Mexican Law Review and a columnist for La Jornada newspaper and Proceso magazine. Contact: www.johnackerman.blogspot.com

If you were familiar with Mexico, you would realize this is business as usual. Corruption is endemic. This isn't exclusive to PAN nor PRI. In fact the only reason PAN came into any prominence is due to people finally having enough with PRI.

Calderon has gone about addressing the cartels in the wrong ways. He declared war on them without having the means to actually win the war. He has said in the past though that if Mexico is really going to have success against the cartels that the US would have to address their demand for drugs.

petegz28

05-22-2010, 01:23 AM

If you were familiar with Mexico, you would realize this is business as usual. Corruption is endemic. This isn't exclusive to PAN nor PRI. In fact the only reason PAN came into any prominence is due to people finally having enough with PRI.

Calderon has gone about addressing the cartels in the wrong ways. He declared war on them without having the means to actually win the war. He has said in the past though that if Mexico is really going to have success against the cartels that the US would have to address their demand for drugs.

You got illegals sneaking into the country to grow this shit. Even in northern CA where it is legal they sneak in and grow it, etc.

The point is, Native, regardless if the drug war, when the violence and kidnappings start crossing the border and the Feds do nothing about it you can't complain when the states do.

lostcause

05-22-2010, 07:16 AM

You got illegals sneaking into the country to grow this shit. Even in northern CA where it is legal they sneak in and grow it, etc.

The point is, Native, regardless if the drug war, when the violence and kidnappings start crossing the border and the Feds do nothing about it you can't complain when the states do.

Yes you can.

Bump

05-22-2010, 09:07 AM

Native you really crack me up. Legalizing marijuana is not something I am against. But that isn't the point. Mexico's problems are becoming our problems. Our lack of border security is allowing this crap to leak into the country. Personally I don't give a flying **** about Mexico. If their government wants to be controlled by drug dealers that is their problem. But when you make it our problem then something must be done. Innocent Americans pay the price for this shit. Not just gang members. And legalizing drugs is not going to happen anytime soon. And I am not sure that would fix it anyway.

FYP

petegz28

05-22-2010, 09:34 AM

FYP

Thank you very little.

talastan

05-22-2010, 09:38 AM

What I love is the head of ICE saying that they might not process illegals from AZ because their new law is "bad government". Okay so his job is to enforce the very laws he claims as "bad government" and he says that it isn't a good idea?!

Sounds like a notice of resignation to me. :D

stumppy

05-22-2010, 09:52 AM

Also, the violence on the US side is dropping

WOW, I hadn't heard about that. This changes everything. As long as they're not killing or kidnapping as many people as they used to then we should let them go about their business.

KC native

05-22-2010, 12:30 PM

WOW, I hadn't heard about that. This changes everything. As long as they're not killing or kidnapping as many people as they used to then we should let them go about their business.

Retarded post is retarded.

Legalize drugs and all that shit disappears.

The Mad Crapper

05-22-2010, 12:52 PM

Retarded post is retarded.

Legalize drugs and all that shit disappears.

Including Meth?

http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showpost.php?p=6774084&postcount=57

You are such an idiot.

KC native

05-22-2010, 01:02 PM

Including Meth?

http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showpost.php?p=6774084&postcount=57

You are such an idiot.

Thought I was on ignore? ROFL

Has meth eaten up so much of your brain that you can't see I was referring to the killing and kidnapping parts?

The Mad Crapper

05-22-2010, 01:06 PM

Thought I was on ignore? ROFL

Has meth eaten up so much of your brain that you can't see I was referring to the killing and kidnapping parts?

My God you are so f'n stupid:

http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showpost.php?p=6774157&postcount=59

Saul Good

05-22-2010, 06:15 PM

If you were familiar with Mexico, you would realize this is business as usual. Corruption is endemic. This isn't exclusive to PAN nor PRI. In fact the only reason PAN came into any prominence is due to people finally having enough with PRI.

Calderon has gone about addressing the cartels in the wrong ways. He declared war on them without having the means to actually win the war. He has said in the past though that if Mexico is really going to have success against the cartels that the US would have to address their demand for drugs.

Why are Mexicans so helpless that they need the US to change our laws in order to keep cartels from running their country? The last thing the US needs is to be lectured by the president of a completely inept country.

vailpass

05-22-2010, 06:42 PM

Why are Mexicans so helpless that they need the US to change our laws in order to keep cartels from running their country? The last thing the US needs is to be lectured by the president of a completely inept country.

Native is an unabashed illegal symapthizer. Blames the US government for the behavior of the savages in the mexican cartels. The day is coming when we start to shoot back.

KC native

05-22-2010, 06:46 PM

Native is an unabashed illegal symapthizer. Blames the US government for the behavior of the savages in the mexican cartels. The day is coming when we start to shoot back.

So what's stopping you pussy?

The Mad Crapper

05-22-2010, 06:57 PM

WOW, I hadn't heard about that. This changes everything. As long as they're not killing or kidnapping as many people as they used to then we should let them go about their business.

Next thing you know, they'll make freedom of speech and to bear arms state rights. Then what will we do?

LOCOChief

05-23-2010, 06:41 PM

JFC pete, the only reason the Zetas exist is because of the drug war. Legalize drugs and they disappear.

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Hey look everyone, what kind of person do you think KCnative is? The kind of person you'de want living nextdoor, around your children?

What a dirtbag POS.

Saul Good

05-23-2010, 06:43 PM

Retarded post is retarded.

Legalize drugs and all that shit disappears.

Let's legalize robbing liquor stores, too. Then, you won't have to worry about the safety of the clerks.

Rain Man

05-24-2010, 04:57 PM

A gang will capitalize on anything illegal , not just drugs.

Yeah, it's ludicrous to assume that criminal gangs will go away if street drugs are legalized. They'll just go into prostitution or extortion or identity theft or something. They're not going to shut down and get jobs at Costco.

Saul Good

05-24-2010, 06:51 PM

Yeah, it's ludicrous to assume that criminal gangs will go away if street drugs are legalized. They'll just go into prostitution or extortion or identity theft or something. They're not going to shut down and get jobs at Costco.

I'm actually an advocate of limited legalization, but it's a stupid argument. Of course decriminalizing it would remove much of the violence. The same thing could be said of anything, though. Maybe we should legalize rape while we're at it. If we tell the women they have to just lay back and take it, it will become a much less violent act. Problem solved, hooray!

BucEyedPea

05-24-2010, 07:08 PM

Yeah, it's ludicrous to assume that criminal gangs will go away if street drugs are legalized. They'll just go into prostitution or extortion or identity theft or something. They're not going to shut down and get jobs at Costco.

Plus the doctors will just be the drug pushers. Oh wait! Some of them already are.

BucEyedPea

05-24-2010, 07:08 PM

I'm actually an advocate of limited legalization, but it's a stupid argument. Of course decriminalizing it would remove much of the violence. The same thing could be said of anything, though. Maybe we should legalize rape while we're at it. If we tell the women they have to just lay back and take it, it will become a much less violent act. Problem solved, hooray!

Plus you can tax and regulate the rapes. :D

Saul Good

05-24-2010, 07:17 PM

Plus you can take and regulate the rapes. :D

More importantly, you can tax them.

BucEyedPea

05-24-2010, 08:28 PM

More importantly, you can tax them.

OMG that was a typo. The word "take" that is. I meant tax.

I went back and fixed it.

KC native

05-24-2010, 08:35 PM

I'm actually an advocate of limited legalization, but it's a stupid argument. Of course decriminalizing it would remove much of the violence. The same thing could be said of anything, though. Maybe we should legalize rape while we're at it. If we tell the women they have to just lay back and take it, it will become a much less violent act. Problem solved, hooray!

Useless poster is useless.

Drug use doesn't infringe upon others like rape does. Drug use is a personal choice. It is a medical problem. It isn't a criminal one.

The Mad Crapper

05-25-2010, 05:02 PM

May 25, 2010
Dem Pol Hit by Drunken Illegal Alien

Posted by Van Helsing at May 25, 2010 8:16 AM

As the tide of drunken Third World peasants inundates America, even our liberal rulers are feeling the effects — a Democrat State Rep. in Taxachusetts, for example:

State Rep. Mike Moran of Brighton was rear-ended by a suspected illegal immigrant this week. The suspect was wearing a Mexican costume at the time of the crash where he slammed into Moran at 60 mph.

The suspect, 27-year-old Isaias Naranjo, was charged with driving under the influence of alcohol, leaving the scene of an accident and driving without a valid license. According to the report, when told of the serious charges he would be facing, he just laughed.

But because of action taken by Gov. Deval Patrick, state police were unable to notify immigration authorities that Naranjo might be illegal.

Three years ago, Patrick revoked an order by former governor Mitt Romney which gave state police power to investigate immigration violations.

Dressed multiculturally in some kind of Mexican musician outfit, the undocumented Democrat boasted a blood alcohol level of .25. When the cops told him he was in trouble, according to the report,

he just laughed slurring that he was going to go back to "my country" Mexico. "Nothing is going to happen to me, man."

Sarah Palin was right: we are all Arizonans now.

http://www.moonbattery.com/archives/2010/05/dem-pol-hit-by.html

Saul Good

05-25-2010, 06:31 PM

Drug use doesn't infringe upon others like rape does. Drug use is a personal choice. It is a medical problem. It isn't a criminal one.

This is true. It's still a stupid argument.

You can argue that pot should be legal because Mexicans dance around sombreros, and it would be about as intelligent a point. Just because your conclusion is correct doesn't mean that it came from logic.

In your case, anything that apologizes for the criminal behavior of Mexicans is reason enough to craft legislation.

Otter

05-25-2010, 06:48 PM

This is true. It's still a stupid argument.

You can argue that pot should be legal because Mexicans dance around sombreros, and it would be about as intelligent a point. Just because your conclusion is correct doesn't mean that it came from logic.

In your case, anything that apologizes for the criminal behavior of Mexicans is reason enough to craft legislation.

I'd bet my left testicle that dude has some kind of neurological disorder or is on some meds that aren't agreeing with him very well.

Or just a junkie.

Stupid people who think they're smart are scary.

KC native

05-25-2010, 07:14 PM

This is true. It's still a stupid argument.

You can argue that pot should be legal because Mexicans dance around sombreros, and it would be about as intelligent a point. Just because your conclusion is correct doesn't mean that it came from logic.

In your case, anything that apologizes for the criminal behavior of Mexicans is reason enough to craft legislation.

wow, so much stupid it's making me dizzy.

The argument for legalization of drugs comes from the same argument that was used to repeal alcohol prohibition. When alcohol was criminalized people didn't stop drinking. Since people didn't stop drinking criminal organizations stepped in to supply the alcohol. Well, once they became involved you started to see violence simply due to the money involved and lack of government oversight. Locking people up didn't fix the situation. The only thing that fixed the situation was the repeal of prohibition. Once those laws were gone the criminal element's profit dried up they were no longer a factor in the situation.

The same thing would happen with drugs. Locking people up for using or selling drugs doesn't stop the drugs from getting here and people using them. Prohibition is a failure. All it has done is enrich drug trafficking organizations and given us the largest prison population of any country on this planet. Locking these people up is a waste of resources.

Finally, I'd like to know how advocating an end to the war on drugs is excusing the criminal behavior of Mexicans. I stand for removing their profit and getting rid of the drug trafficking organizations. You, OTOH, are for the status quo which has failed miserably.

KC native

05-25-2010, 07:17 PM

I'd bet my left testicle that dude has some kind of neurological disorder or is on some meds that aren't agreeing with him very well.

Or just a junkie.

Stupid people who think they're smart are scary.

:rolleyes: Because someone who has actually devoted time to understanding the intricacies of drug use and prohibition is stupid.

Just fucking die already. The world would be a better place without such a miserable hate filled prick such as yourself.

Saul Good

05-25-2010, 07:35 PM

Just ****ing die already. The world would be a better place without such a miserable hate filled prick such as yourself.

You tell 'im, native. You advocating fewer miserable, hate-filled pricks is like you advocating fewer Mexicans.

KC native

05-25-2010, 07:40 PM

You tell 'im, native. You advocating fewer miserable, hate-filled pricks is like you advocating fewer Mexicans.

useless poster is useless. I like how you ignored my post where I showed you that my argument is very logical.

Saul Good

05-25-2010, 08:06 PM

useless poster is useless. I like how you ignored my post where I showed you that my argument is very logical.

It's not logical. You can say the same thing about any crime. That doesn't mean that we should have anarchy. If you want to say that legalizing pot makes sense because it doesn't hurt anyone, that's a reasonable point. The benefits associated with legalizing it (fewer people in prison, less violence, tax revenue, etc.) are ancillary.

Otter

05-26-2010, 01:23 AM

:rolleyes: Because someone who has actually devoted time to understanding the intricacies of drug use and prohibition is stupid.

Just ****ing die already. The world would be a better place without such a miserable hate filled prick such as yourself.

Yeah, that's it KC Nitwit, it's because you're so more highly evolved than the rest of us and have this understanding of the drug problem we can't grasp yet. Where doctors will be regulating meth, heroin and ketamine intake under a government controlled program that will somehow not generate an underground market.

Where all the illegal immigrants dance to the sound of La Bamaba and take their sacred land back from the evil whites.

Dude, I'm gonna tell you something your old man should have told you long ago; you're a fucking idiot, learn to deal with it.

KC native

05-26-2010, 01:29 AM

Yeah, that's it KC Nitwit, it's because you're so more highly evolved than the rest of us and have this understanding of the drug problem we can't grasp yet. Where doctors will be regulating meth, heroin and ketamine intake under a government controlled program that will somehow not generate an underground market.

Where all the illegal immigrants dance to the sound of La Bamaba and take their sacred land back from the evil whites.

Dude, I'm gonna tell you something your old man should have told you long ago; you're a fucking idiot, learn to deal with it.

Sweet rebuttal! You are aware that I'm not the only one who advocates legalizing drugs? http://www.leap.cc/cms/index.php Check it out.

Founded on March 16, 2002, LEAP is made up of current and former members of the law enforcement and criminal justice communities who are speaking out about the failures of our existing drug policies. Those policies have failed, and continue to fail, to effectively address the problems of drug abuse, especially the problems of juvenile drug use, the problems of addiction, and the problems of crime caused by the existence of a criminal black market in drugs.

Although those who speak publicly for LEAP are people from the law enforcement and criminal justice communities, a large number of our supporting members do not have such experience. You don't have to have law enforcement experience to join us.

By continuing to fight the so-called "War on Drugs", the US government has worsened these problems of society instead of alleviating them. A system of regulation and control of these substances (by the government, replacing the current system of control by the black market) would be a less harmful, less costly, more ethical and more effective public policy.

Please consider joining us and helping us to achieve our goals: 1) to educate the public, the media and policy makers about the failure of current policies, and 2) to restore the public's respect for police, which respect has been greatly diminished by law enforcement's involvement in enforcing drug prohibition.