Celtic Diary Wednesday June 6: Playing The Man and Not The Ball

There’s trouble at t’mill, as one of the previous shysters at Ibrox would have termed it, as he scooped his takings into his big hands before engineering his exit with a few well chosen words.

Gary Hughes, who twelve years ago , referred to Rangers fans as “the great unwashed “, has decided he can’t be arsed with the SFA any more, and won’t stand for re-election.

We believe his letter stating this was along the lines of “fuck this, its dying anyway “.

It’s all very surprising that somehow a throwaway remark has come back to haunt him in this way, and for those of us who have dreamt of a job in the SFA corridors of power who have also made throwaway remarks about a cheating club who stiffed their knuckle dragging bigoted and gullible support perhaps seek employment elsewhere.

Dave King couldn’t believe his luck.

As any fool involved in politics will tell you, if you can’t fault someones performance then you go for his personality, known as playing the man and not the ball.

And if it also happens to fit your own agenda, then thats a bonus.

King delightedly went after Hughes, accusing him of all sorts of impropriety, giving him a welcome distraction for all of his own failings-there’s still no share issue, no offer in accordance to the takeover panel, and the manager he’s hired for his revolution isn’t qualified for the job- and Hughes, as we have seen, can’t be arsed with it any more.

However, king has seen Hughes’s decision as a sign of weakness, and perhaps even guilt, and now wants to know if the recent decision to charge his club with naughty business was anything to do with Hughes.

In fact, its more to do with the evidence available pointing to the Ibrox club being a little less than honest in their dealings, which is usually enough to bring a case against anyone.

The solution, of course, as pointed out by Auldheid on the Scottish Football monitor, is quite simple..

Given DKs concerns that the JPD process might have been “got at” by Hughes surely the best way to assure everyone it will play with a straight bat is to have a representative from UEFA who knows both the rules and their purpose involved?Who better to judge if charges are groundless or ridiculous?Res12 accused no one of anything, it just asked for a fair investigation by UEFA and if the answer is licence granted in line with UEFA rules and intent then that is the end of the matter?

Wits the problem?

Given the mess the SFA are in right now, it must only be a matter of time before they ask for independent adjudication.

Except, of course, they know that UEFA will decide they aren’t fit for purpose either, and no one at the SFA is prepared to kick away the ladder they just climbed to get to where they are.

Which brings me to an interesting piece of tittle tattle we heard the other day.

We’ve been unable to verify it, but there is a case for questions to be asked. although, of course , we know no one will answer them.

You be the judge… its only fair you should get the chance to make your own minds up, as we respect the opinions of our readers equally.

The article that surfaced containing the comments made by Hughes was in a trade magazine-the brewery trade-and even people in the trade would rarely take any notice of the publication, unless they were in it.

How did King come across this information ?

Stewart Regan allegedly sent him the article in a letter, and if thats true one has to ask why, and why now ?

Back around the beginning of May last year, King met Regan in Glasgow to discuss “general topics “, and one now wonders if we are becoming aware of what they were.

Regans days by then would have been numbered, and King needs support at the SFA, which the new chiefs are not guaranteed to give him.

Were they laying the groundwork for this assault ? Or merely pooling resources for when they might be useful ?

Or, of course, there is the possibility they didn’t talk about this at all.

There is some kind of power battle going on behind closed doors at Hampden. The only real shame is that we can’t put a lock on those doors and leave them all in there.

Hibernian man Rod Petrie, himself unpopular with his own supporters, is after the top job, which he believes he will inherit after MacRae steps down, and he might. The times they are a changing, and whilst supporters may demand quicker and perhaps more sweeping changes, thats not going to happen.

Not yet, anyway.

There are cries for Celtic to speak out, but sometimes saying something for the sake of saying something is the incorrect approach, and Lawwell will be aware of that.

It will have to happen, but they will be considering whether to play the man or the ball themselves.

But only when the time is right, and they must garner support from other clubs in the meantime to avoid turning this into another Celtic Rangers issue, which it is not, and never has been, but suits the agenda of those who don’t want change.

Lawwell has done sterling work for Celtic, and he won’t want that to be tarnished by the actions of a dodgy few at Hampden.

Yet if nothing is done, he will be remembered as the man who did nothing about the ongoing shenanigans in the corridors of power. That would be unfair, but thats how it will turn out.

Like the club at Ibrox, the SFA is doing its best to keep things as they are, and as events conspire against them, due largely to their own interpretations of the rules, and their own sense of self preservation, they , too, are flailing like a fish on a boat about to be hit with a lead pipe.

The issue here isn’t who said what about who, its about how this information is being used to discredit someone for someone elses selfish motives, and how a fairly innocent throwaway remark twelve years ago is being lauded as up there with certain ” Rangers ” men manipulating the rules to allow their club to receive a licence that they should not have been given.

I’m quite sure that our media are aware of this, but when one leading journalist from a notable newspaper claims that one of those who originally bent the rules back in 2011 is a “nice guy “, then there have to be doubts about how far they will go to unearth the truth.

Actually, there aren’t any doubts at all. The phrase “the square root of fuck all “ springs to mind.

Speaking of European licences, Barcabhoy on twitter has argued rather eloquently that there are grounds to question any issue of a licence for next season..

This is superb stuff, and deserves enormous praise..

A thread on the new Uefa FFP guidelines , valid from 1 June 2018, and how they present multiple problems for Rangers 1 The FFP rules state that group structure applies to FFP. This matters because it means that both The Rangers Football Club Ltd & RIFC need to comply

2 It’s clear therefore that the @ScottishFA needs to look at RIFC’s finances as well as TRFC Uefa have many rules regarding compliance, but it’s only the FFP aspect i’m writing about here The first red flag is the losses in excess of € 5 Million over a 3 year period

Losses over €5 Million up to €30 Million are allowed if covered in full by new Equity or Capital Contributions (CC) However what is not allowed is running up debt to pay for losses TRFC has CC from RIFC, however RIFC has repayable loans not allowed to reduce losses to €5 M

As stated Uefa do not allow Capital Contributions which are classified as a liability

As shown the loans to RIFC are repayable and are in the liabilities section of the RIFC balance sheet . Capital Contributions classified as liabilities are specifically excluded by Uefa

Another Red Flag

RIFC therefore fails with regards to the allowable losses rule set by Uefa. Rangers losses in the last 3 years have been

2017£6,338 M

2016£2,540 M

2015 £7,657 M

Total £16,535 which at todays exchange rate = €18,823 Even with Youth Football & Stadium deductions = fail

The 2nd Red Flag relates to going concern warnings Uefa are explicit. You are in breach if you have a going concern warning .

Both RIFC and TRFC have going concern warnings . They have had these warnings in previous years yet, were still awarded a Uefa licence by the SFA , despite being in breach of both the allowable losses rule and the going concern rule

Summary

On the face of it Rangers fail to qualify for a Uefa Licence as they :

1 ) exceed the allowable losses

2) Their contributions are liabilities and as such are not allowed to reduce losses

3) They have a going concern warning on both RIFC and TRFC

Over to Ian Maxwell

First and foremost, that is fantastic work from Barcabhoy, and I’m quite sure the mainstream media will pick up on it and ask questions about it.

Well, maybe one of them will..

Ian Maxwell, however, has a chance to pick the ball up and run with it.

We are at a crossroads, and the new man at the SFA can choose an entirely different route from his predecessors if he wants to…

All he has to do is pick up the phone and get someone from UEFA to assess the application.

Perhaps now we see why King is adopting his scattergun approach to the SFA, deflecting from the bombshell that could be dropped.

Is he applying pressure so that they will ignore the fact that his club is ineleigible for Europe ?

No European football means his financial forecast is a bit off.

He’s already knee deep in the doo doo, which is not what that lot like to be knee deep in. ( there goes my SFA job )

Before our game is completely fucked, can someone put their foot on his head ?

The “again” refers to what you hear on the video. Listening to that fella shouting ” again” was the best bit for me

BrenceltJune 6, 2018 at 11:54 pm ·

The “again” refers to what you hear on the video. Listening to that fella shouting ” again” was the best bit for me

UraliusJune 6, 2018 at 4:22 pm ·

Brencelt thanks so much for posting this video. I’ve watched so many times, I’ve listened to it in the car. It makes me so happy.

BrenceltJune 6, 2018 at 11:56 pm ·

You’re welcome Uralius. It’s pure joy.

Cartvale88June 6, 2018 at 9:45 am ·

Everyone is feart of this mob, bullets in the post, death threats. The establishment and the police ignore their bile and violence which creates this climate of compliance.
They stand for everything that is wrong in Scotland, hounding people for comments they made years ago, claiming that DD is pulling the strings, when in truth they have for years. Their demise cannot come quickly enough

AweNawNoAnnoniOanAnawNooJune 6, 2018 at 9:45 am ·

If it wasn’t for the Resolution 12 Bhoys. This wouldn´t be happening. To give Celtic PLC any credit for this is just self motivated arse licking. I wonder why etims along with Paul, Phil and James are doing this. I mean it’s not as if this is up for debate.

Well done to Barcabhoy, Auldhead and everyone fighting for an honest game in Scotland. You are correct Ralphy Scottish football is in the last chance saloon. Every day now I hear good long term supporters saying… “if the game isn’t fixed, i’m off, never to return” but why should they go, we are not asking for anything more than just an honest game and it ain’t cheap to watch your team play. Is it too much to want, to go and watch your team, knowing that the rules of the game are being bent in favour of one club? McRae is nearly finished his term as President, Maxwell is just in the door, but he will know whats going on. That leaves the putrid Petrie, Brogan, Rogan Trevino and auld Tam Morris described him as “a runny egg of a man, the unacceptable face of the SFA mentality” David Low described him even better “slithering around “Rangers” to restore his ain wee power base” that say’s it all.
Can we not circumvent the SFA and send directly to UEFA the details of the breaching of the rules and see what happens.
Ian Maxwell, your time has come, make the correct decisions.

Level 5 plantJune 6, 2018 at 9:57 am ·

Nothing will ever be done, cheats allowed to prosper in Scotland. Hopefully they will go the same way as their deceased relative.

jinkyJune 6, 2018 at 12:49 pm ·

you said good long term supporters are saying if the game isn’t fixed i’m off, well they can rest assured the games been fixed for years lol

Have to say really admire the evidence based approach of Barcabhoy, he really has done a number( or lots of numbers) on them. Gary Hughes is paying for an unguarded comment and lots of people who use social media when they are young, will find things come back to haunt them later in their careers. If it was someone from the other side talking about Celtic we would react the same but we wouldn’t send someone, described in court, “ as a glib and shameless liar” to carry the ball, that is bizarre. So is the SFA’s track record, I wonder if Hughes on the outside will be an enemy they wish they hadn’t made, both the SFA and Sevco. Remember “ Nay you live in interesting times” is not an old Chinese proverb, it’s an old Chinese curse.

portpowerJune 6, 2018 at 10:03 am ·

I see the SFA have hired pest controller,Billy the Exterminator to relocate captured animals at their up and coming AGM.

Beware bugs & squirrels.

sevco feral non-native FC.

CarlJungleBhoyJune 6, 2018 at 10:07 am ·

Phew! … and breathe ..

We’ve always thought that the SFA was not fit for purpose. Just one long conga line of clowns & charlatans .. Ogilvie, Regan, Dickson, Petrie, McRae – after another….. (fill in the blanks going back decades). However, its bizarre that we’ve been moaning & complaining about them for donkey’s years and SFA get’s done, then along comes Simba controlling the narrative for his own skinty eyed sly sly purposes – with admirable help from the media and suddenly we get resignations & calls for an inquiry. WTF!

I’m starting to think it’s time for the fans to call their bluff – this time with the huns on board (in the delusion – fed by King & the press that there’s bias against them) – and demand a fully independent inquiry – just as Lawell called for – but into everything that’s gone in the last 12 years at least (thanks Dave!) to get all that dirty linnen out in public and clean out the entire footballing governing establishment from top to bottom.

This time – with widespread support of all fans – including the huns – that’s a petition that might just get enough support to force Edinburgh to act.

Charlie SaizJune 6, 2018 at 10:10 am ·

As Monikers go that’s right up there with Lewinski.

I see nothing wrong with Forums/Blogs highlighting this so long as it is kept out there and kept up to date?

I do agree however that there seems to be a little bit of “Shhh bhoys Lawwells got this covered” about it some of those mentioned.

I’d hate to think Lawwell has been using these guys in order to keep any presssure off the Club whilst the SFA throw together yet another joke of a solution to the issues within our game?

I mean NOT ONE FUCKIN CLUB has yet to take the 5 Way Hoodwink to task and we are now 6 years down the shite pipe in this regard?

Are the Clubs INCLUDING CELTIC guilty of backing that Laws of Physics (Laws of the Land too)bending piece of fantasy from the SFA and SPFL?

I hope to fuck Lawwell/Celtic knows what he/It is doing.

MontiJune 6, 2018 at 10:36 am ·

As Monikers go, your one is up there with Baldrick!

WeeredJune 6, 2018 at 11:03 am ·

MONTI…SO WHAT’S YER CUNNING PLAN TODAY SIR?

Charlie SaizJune 6, 2018 at 11:17 am ·

So when did you drop the g?

AuldheidJune 6, 2018 at 4:08 pm ·

Charlie

A long time ago in 2010 one lesson to emerge from a resolution coming from an Open Meetings at St Mary’s is that supporters/shareholders gave Celtic leverage by putting their concerns to Celtic that justified them taking them to the SFA.

The fact of the matter is Celtic are bound in a way that supporters and shareholders are not. There are things the club cannot say or do because of SFA/SPFL constraints that supporters/shareholders can.

So Celtic are not using supporters/shareholders and bloggers.
It is more a case of going about business in their separate ways, but with same objective.

broxburnbhoyJune 6, 2018 at 4:57 pm ·

exactly so and well said

Charlie SaizJune 6, 2018 at 10:51 pm ·

The proof in the pudding is in the eating.
Our Club along with every other sat back and allowed the 5 Way Agreement to not only take place but go unchallenged.
(you have to wonder why that is because legally it i may as well be written in Vulcan and signed by baboons.
How this piece of sophistry has gone unchallenged is beyond me?
As a result the Tribute Act has been given the green light by the SFA and SPFL to not only hoodwink 50,000 gullible Rangers Fans but also stick one big middle finger up to any chance of integrity and transparency ever happening again in our game in Scotland.
If indeed there ever was such a thing?
Not one representative of any of those involved in our Game has challenged this document.
If they don’t resolve this matter then you really can’t expect things to change that much can you?
I know I don’t because 6 year down the shit pipe since the usual suspects signed it absolutely hee haw has changed.
Except that is for the numpties at Ibrox getting bolder by the statement and it would appear carrying on in the same manner not giving one single fuck for the consequence?

Which leads me to believe they obviously have something up their sleeve?

Could it be the very same thing no one bothered chasing up?

Time will tell bud.

Mike AnnisJune 6, 2018 at 10:11 am ·

Well done the ordinary heroes. It must be galling ploughing lonely furrows knowing you’ll get no support from the Charimen, clubs, SFA, media etc. I still feel nothing will happen. The corrupt game will stay exactly that. It has not changed in over a hundred years. It won’t chamge now.

WeeredJune 6, 2018 at 10:22 am ·

Mike Annis…exactly…ordinary heroes with a bit of knowledge and know what they are talking about and put it down for the other ordinary folk to understand it…

There aren’t enough medals to go around the number of ordinary heroes involved…HAIL HAIL TO THEM ALL

Caption
“Here’s how we do it David…
You call for the CVA to be rejected the Club dies then you step in and get the Assets for next to fuck all..
Then we quickly hash an Agreement between the 5 of us in Secret that brings the Assets back to life as Rangers ,sell it to these numpties as the Same Club or some other shite then we carry on normal jogging”
-Aye but what do I do meanwhile?
You Jet in to Ibrox once a month with some of that Afrikaans bush meat and punt it to the MSM as Succulent Lamb..mibees marinade it in bullshit for a week or two before you land?
Brilliant Master Regan a 360 degree full proof plan.”

WeeredJune 6, 2018 at 10:23 am ·

CHARLIE…in sporting terms it’s a no contest 🙂

charlieJune 6, 2018 at 10:37 am ·

he he

charlieJune 6, 2018 at 10:25 am ·

am using the picture at the tap as a caption on accounty ralph fuckin forgetin tae put wan up so caption regan sais timmy knows aboot the letter dave

MontiJune 6, 2018 at 10:35 am ·

Gary Hughes should have fought this all the way, there is overwhelming evidence that huns do not wash, use deoderant & have the the most obese, hunhygienic, inbred & socially challenged support in world football.
Well said Gary Hughes!

GIRFUYYDOB

charlieJune 6, 2018 at 10:39 am ·

am away tae the dentist for a spot a root canal treatment aint some days no as grand as others he he

MontiJune 6, 2018 at 10:57 am ·

Zzzzzzz hammer twist zzzzz wwwhhhhrrrr zzzzeeeeee
🙂

Rob O'KeeffeJune 6, 2018 at 11:21 am ·

Breaking news: DaveCo will “participate ” in Euro qualifier just like last season! FFP? Move along….Cold Shoulder for GASL? Take your time….Takeover Panel? You’ve been ridden like a Blackpool donkey by a prick of a criminal.The real gangsters must be pissing themselves,laughing.Forced share offer? Silence…Trainee manager on £2m a year,allegedly paid by a crooked businessman…News on Title Stripping? Silence…SFA? Appointed a “manager” using fans’ money to pay back EBT monies to HMRC.Rest of Scottish football? Look at our lights,look at our shiny new stand,look at our proposed new multi million pound stadium and training facilities etc etc.Never mind,roll up,roll up and have your pockets picked,left,right and centre…..Be Careful what You Buy Into…..

WeeredJune 6, 2018 at 1:26 pm ·

Rob…you at the fake news again?

Rob O'KeeffeJune 6, 2018 at 3:00 pm ·

Weered? Which part is fake? I’ll explain anything you’re not aware of….

The reason I have no faith in Ian Maxwell is the fact that he was chosen and hired by the very guys we expect him to call bang to rights…cant see it happening.

Nice pointing out how King trying to level the “Look folks..everyones a villain eh!” pitch so his clubs criminals can duly be admonished with a “Hey lets all just move on” small fine removed from future tournament monies.

It will be that or for Hughes, Rangers will offer another Patsy..problem is Dickson knows ALL the secrets and Johnston is owed at least 1 million back from Rangers at present..who will it be Dave?…Campbell Ogilvie?

The ChaJune 6, 2018 at 12:28 pm ·

Booyakasha!

I suppose there’s a slim chance he’ll be the worm that turned and grow a pair but that’s more likely to be your aunty.

UEFA supports fair play both on and off the pitch. Financial fair play means that clubs operate transparently and resposibly to protect both sporting competitions and the clubs themselves.
FINANCIAL FAIR PLAY MEANS CLUBS NOT GETTING INTO A SPIROL OF DEBT TO COMPETE WITH THERE RIVALS BUT RATHER COMPETING WITH THERE OWN MEANS.
I.E. THE RESOURCES THEY GENERATE.

WeeredJune 6, 2018 at 12:58 pm ·

Looks as if another northern Irish man will be managing in SPL this season….Oran Kearney (Coleraine) tipped for St Mirren.
How many will that be 4 or 5?

Barcabhoy’s work is indeed impressive and not for the first time.
Unfortunately, we live in an age where logic and truth have lost much of their value. Denying the obvious and the valid, is an acceptable progression strategy…just look at Trump and the States. Look at the track history of the ruling bodies of Scottish football. Look at Sevco and DK.

Truth does not always prevail, sadly.

Eventually, when it is too late, truth can be vindicated….see the ebt scandal.

I am not hopeful that Sevco will be denied a licence, but I suspect that they will not be able to progress very far in the Europa. The SFA, and UEFA may be relying on the law of competition to sort this out.

Rebus

jazzerbhoyJune 6, 2018 at 3:51 pm ·

Rebus totally agree m8 and was going to say much along the same lines. Sadly Barcabhoys sterling work will go the same way as the rest. Why because no one outside of Celtic is interested. If Barcabhoy changes his name to another without a Celtic reference then maybe some would take interest.
You see Barcabhoy has just used all the information available to everyone,it’s out there,yet not one Scottish or British journalist cares, not one chairman/woman cares,no other supporters care.
Stop this nonsense that Celtic don’t want to get involved so it becomes a Celtic/Rangers thing,if no one else gives a flying fuck then so shall it be. You see I’m sick to death of reading everyone on why sevco shouldn’t be granted a licence,why Gerrard shouldn’t be in charge at a European game,why why why. It’s time to put them out their misery once and for all.
Peter Fire the fuckin bullet.

Rob O'KeeffeJune 6, 2018 at 5:37 pm ·

Hear hear Jazzer…..all the Kleenex crew moaning about licences etc.Well,step up Celtic.You’ve been defrauded of millions of pounds and you still want to do business with the same crooks that bumped you? Feckin contact UEFA,state the facts about Sevco/DaveCo,the 5 Way Agreement and the SFAs collusion and tell everyone that you are trying to clean up Our Game or you could tell us that you’re carrying out repairs to the stadium? Jeez oh….

Charlie SaizJune 6, 2018 at 11:04 pm ·

Celtic must carry on as normal I don’t have issue with hat.
After all we have done everything by the book.
However if all this shit goes the way it’s looking like going then Celtic better get the fuckin gloves off and start Legal proceedings for potential lost income and apparent Clandestine Agreements being made in secret.

Doing nothing is not an option Peter.

So let the chip fall where they may and let us see how our supposed overseers at Hampden deal with this shower once and for all.

Powder dry,guns primed full volley if they don’t come through this time.

MontiJune 7, 2018 at 7:01 am ·

Rob,
Agreed!

broxburnbhoyJune 6, 2018 at 5:01 pm ·

If “rangers” get to play in Europe, the other team are bound to bring this up especially if they get beat!

Rob O'KeeffeJune 6, 2018 at 5:40 pm ·

What do you mean IF? No other Scottish club has complained.Why don’t you e-mail UEFA? Celtic Plc haven’t…..

jimmybeeJune 6, 2018 at 5:00 pm ·

What a wasted oppertunity that their seems to be no appetite for summer football in Scotland

Celtic and our other european representitives could be upto match speed ready to play the qualifiers. A bigger tv revenue would surely be on the table and fans and players would benefit as would our next generation.
No need for plastic pitches,and im sure a much more enjoyable experiance than a dark cold fixture in December when fans have little money as it is. An increase in the premiership to play equal home and away matches and an end to the ludicrous situation we have post match split fixtures.
If only

Rob O'KeeffeJune 6, 2018 at 5:44 pm ·

What about the golf?…….Football is still in the dark ages,reeking of corruption….Why ruin the “summer” with sectarian scum travelling about amongst families trying to enjoy a nice day trip?

charlieJune 7, 2018 at 8:21 am ·

and thats jeest the golfers

Rob O'KeeffeJune 7, 2018 at 10:08 am ·

Ah concur,most probably the ones from darkest Ayrshire….They don’t shout Fore,they shout Going for 55…..thankfully they have their own exclusive clubs which are gradually dying out…..

jimmybeeJune 6, 2018 at 5:40 pm ·

On this day in 1798 the bold Henry Joy McCracken
Issues proclamation calling on United Irishmen in Ulster to arms.
Army of Ulster,Tomorrow we march on antrim, drive the garrison of Randlastown before you and haste to form a junction with your commander -in -chief
Ist year of Liberty 6th day of June 1798.https://youtu.be/IHPH-5zMjNo

Rob O'KeeffeJune 6, 2018 at 5:51 pm ·

A guy walked into the Brazen Head today with a crocodile on a lead and said ‘Do you serve Orangemen?’ Stony silence.The barman,Patrick,says ‘Why do you ask?’ The guy says ‘If you do,a Guinness for me and 2 Orangemen for my croc’……

jimmybeeJune 6, 2018 at 5:46 pm ·

Heres to those brave protestant men who have given their all for Ireland and Celtic.

jimmybeeJune 6, 2018 at 5:48 pm ·

Rob O'KeeffeJune 6, 2018 at 5:57 pm ·

Jimmybee,we are an all encompassing club,we’ll sign any old crap.I give you Compper,Hayes,De Vries etc etc…..right,time for some golf practice,it’s another lovely evening in Green and Whyte Glasgow…..GF8,holes…..

Noel SkytrotJune 6, 2018 at 7:16 pm ·

JBee, Brave Protestant Men is my favourite track by the ‘Tones. I would love to hear that sung out at CP like Grace does. Imagine Billy Albertz hearing that being sung by us during a game against them? they would implode. Fantastic track

jimmybeeJune 6, 2018 at 11:15 pm ·

Noel ive said before on here my dads best pal was a church of scotland ministers boy. He was a Motherwell fan. Anyway one midweek as Celtic were about to take on europe my da said to him fancy coming to the game big man. Sure he said will i be ok on the supporters bus of course my da said we are Celtic supporters not huns.Anyway with a wee cargo of a half bottle and some McEwans pale ale and screw taps they watchec the hoops run out. Big John was hooked from the first minute and it never left him. Heres to you big brave protestant john with you we are a club like no tjer.

WeeredJune 6, 2018 at 5:55 pm ·

REMEMBER ORR

I am no traitor!
I die a persecuted man, for a persecuted country.”

Last words of William Orr

On the morning of 18 September 12 male jurours were sworn in. Two witnesses were announced to appear against the 31-year-old defendant; they were John Lindsay and Hugh Wheatley.

Crowds of supporters, well-wishers, crown conspirators and military packed the Carrickfergus Courthouse that morning. They heard Wheatley swear on oath that while in fear of his life and under threat Orr administered on him an oath:

“In the awful presence of God, I ………………., do voluntarily declare that I will persevere in endeavouring to form a brotherhood of affection among Irishmen of every religious persuasion, and that I will also persevere in my endeavoures to obtain an equal, full, and adequate representation of all the people of Ireland.

“I do declare that neither hopes, fears, rewards, or punishments shall ever induce me directly, or indirectly, to inform, or give evidence against any member, or members, of this or similar societies, for any act or expression of theirs done or made individually or collectively, in or out of this society, in persuance of the spirit of this obligation.”

John Philpot Curran cross-examined him on his character before John Lindsay was called. He only went as far as staing that he was in the room while the oath was administered.

Despite the Crown knowing the names of all those who were in attendance on the night in question none had been `persuaded’ to turn King’s evidence. Regretfully they couldn’t appear for the Defence, for to do so would implicate them and leave them open to capital conviction.

When time came for the Defence case they began by saying that Orr was wrongly charged under the Insurrection Act and not with High Treason. This was done in order to afford him less opportunity to defend himself than if the more serious charge had been put, which was warranted if the Crown evidence were accepted.

Both judges understood this manouvre and thus over-ruled it, thus preventing Orr from being called to the witness box to give an account of himself. The Defence was left with one witness to contradict Whealtey – Charles MacLaverty – only to be contradicted in turn by a Sergeant Millar and Reverend Foot Marshell.

The jury retired for the night. At six in the morning after badgering from the judge and retiring twice more to a guilty or not guilty verdict, Orr was pronounced guilty; but with a recommendation of mercy.

The next day, before sentence was passed on Orr, his Defence team made the startling announcement that two jurors had sworn affidavits stating that on the night they retired to consider the veredict “a considerable quantity of spirituous liquour was conveyed into the jury-room and drunk by the jury, many of whom were greatly intoxicated, and threatened the two jurors who made the affidvait, and who admitted themselves also to have been in a state of intoxication, to prosecute them as United Irishmen if they did not concur in a verdict of guilty; and that at length, worn by fatigue and drink, and subdued by menaces, they did, contrary to their judgement, concur in that verdict.”

Another juror swore he was misled regarding the outcome in the event of a guilty verdict. Curran called for a mistrial, saying that a verdict so obtained might disgrace the administration of the law. The court refused the application and subsequent moves by many to quash the sentence came to nought and Lord Yelverton made his pronouncement with crocodile tears flowing:

“You are to be taken to the place from when you came, from there to the common place of execution, the gallows, there to be hung by the neck until you are dead.”

Orr’s speech from the dock was short and to the point, stating the conviction was “a falsehood” and “that the evidence against me was grossly and wickedly perjured”.

While Orr awaited his execution, many made representations to the authorities seeking a reprieve. While this was being done others sought to blacken Orr’s name by publishing `confessions’ purportedly made by him, while others again sought from him a confession in return for clemency.

On the morning of 14 October William Orr was taken from his cell in Carrickfergus Jail and placed in a carriage to be brought to the Gallows Green under strong military guard. A letter from Carrickfergus that day describes the scene:

“The inhabitants of this town, man, woman, and child, quit the place this day, rather than be present at the execution of their hapless countryman, William Orr… The military who attended the execution consisted of several thousand men, horse and foot, with cannon, and a company of artillery – the whole forming a hollow square.

“To these William Orr read his dying declaration, with a clear, strong, manly tone of voice – and his deportment was firm, unshaken and impressive, to the last instant of his existence.”

In his declaration, copies of which were distributed nationwide despite the threat of death for possession of them, Orr stated:

“If to have loved my country, to have known its wrongs, to have felt the injuries of the persecuted Catholics, and to have united with them and all other religious persuasions in the most orderly and least sanquinary means of procuring redress; – if these be felonies, then I am a felon, but not otherwise.”

As he stepped to the scaffold he uttered his final defiant words at his executioners.

“I am no traitor. I die a persecuted man, for a persecuted country.”

His body was cut down from the gallows, and despite attempts by his friends to revive him the hangman had done his work completely and as his masters desired. His body was then placed on a cart bedded with straw and a start made for its long trip home. It first went to Ballynure where Orr was waked overnight before heading to Templepatrick. So great were the crowds paying respects that several attempts by the military to disperse the funeral procession failed.

William Orr’s trial and execution became a public symbol of repression and “Remember Orr” became the battlecry of United Irishmen everywhere.

United Irish leader, farmer and family man William Orr was judicially murdered 200 years ago, on 14 October 1797.

Rob O'KeeffeJune 6, 2018 at 5:58 pm ·

Could you please repeat that?……

jimmybeeJune 6, 2018 at 10:35 pm ·

Can you no read dafty

Rob O'KeeffeJune 7, 2018 at 10:11 am ·

??? Punctuation,who’s the daftie????

Noel SkytrotJune 6, 2018 at 7:32 pm ·

Excellent wee read, Red. One of the best quotes I’ve heard that’s so simplistic in terms is Henry Joy McCracken’s that I’ve yet too hear anyone disprove this

“the rich always betray the poor”

What’s remarkable about the men of 98 is that they showed genuine unity could be forged in revolutionary conditions. That brought together the most democratic elements of Presbyterian Belfast with the peasantry of Wexford because they dared to challenge a world where prince and aristocrats had a right to rule. Their revolutionary spirit stands out, and anyone who studies revolutions can be without doubt that the UI pass the test regardless of it’s failure. Salut

Noel SkytrotJune 6, 2018 at 7:39 pm ·

One of the UI catechisms is brilliant, it goes,

“What have you got in your hand?
A green bough
Where did if first grow?
In America
Where did it bud?
In France
Where are you going to plant it?
In the crown of Great Britain.”

WeeredJune 6, 2018 at 7:53 pm ·

Noelskytrot… William Orr of Farranshane died 1897…sadly he he never got the chance to become involved in the insurrection. I first read about him in late 1980s. A former boss of mine, who is Protestant, had so much stuff about the United Irishmen, I believe his ancestors were involved somehow.

ShenksJune 6, 2018 at 6:55 pm ·

End of the fans need to stop king and sevco. It’s so obvious and a disgrace that a criminal and even worse a criminal that’s allowed to dictate to the idiotic and obviously staunch press. U want honest football in Scotland stop the bile and stupidity coming out of that place. It’s embarrassing

WeeredJune 6, 2018 at 7:57 pm ·

Noelskytrot… THERE IS A CSC NAMED AFTER HIM

WeeredJune 6, 2018 at 8:38 pm ·

Noelskytrot… Orr came from the shaded area on this map. The battle of Antrim pretty much concluded not far from this site at Donegore Hill

I used to go to parties up the Steeple Estate Red 😉
Helluva place for kneecapping so it was we used to here shots fairly regularly in the wee hours and no some idiot was getting some rough justice for thieving etc.

Just watched the highlights of the England vs Scotland U21 game and one think struck me. England played as a team with a couple of outstanding individuals swinging the game. Scotland had outstanding individuals but did not play as a team. Understanding amongst the defence was particularly poor.

Johnson’s goal was the best of the four.

Why can the Scottish coaches not get the players to play as a team….it is as if we have learned nothing in the last 30 years.

When Scotland produced world class players, such as Law, Dalgleish, McNeil and Baxter, the knock against us was that we could not gell as a team. Now we do not produce many if any world class players and still cannot play as a team.

This says a lot about where the problem lies….quality of coaching…nay, lack of it.

Rebus

MontiJune 6, 2018 at 9:48 pm ·

Rebus,
Scottish coaches are all about power, fitness & Physicality, it’s always been the Scottish way, strength & Power & motivation….all admirable attributes but it only takes you so far.
I remember Billy McNeill saying that before big Jock came to Celtic, training mainly consisted of running round the track at the side of the pitch lol.
Big Jock introduced the ball to training & hey presto……Jock was obviously Scottish i know but i mean the Largs lot.

When you look at some of the great players from the past & recent past, Platini, Zidane, Del Piero, Pirlo, Xavi & iniesta…..you get the feeling their coaches weren’t driving it into them to be ‘ harder, faster & stronger ‘.

Technique, touch, vision and being aware of your positioning & movement is what should be drummed into young players.

I remember watching an under 16 game a while back, central defender receives the ball under no pressure and smashes it downfield, his ‘ coach ‘ cough, shouted well done…
How was it ‘ well done ‘? Take the fucking ball down, sort your breathing out, calm down and find your own man.

Stevie DJune 6, 2018 at 10:49 pm ·

Agreed Monti. Worse than that; a macho shite philosophy of near thuggery is impressed on boys as early as primary school or under-13 level in this country. It was always my experience there was always some maniac da on the sidelines offering instruction like the euphemism ‘Let him know you’re there!’ or even ‘Break that wee Donegal bastard’s legs!’ I had to ask my Da what that meant.

MontiJune 6, 2018 at 9:52 pm ·

Jimmybee,
Some great stuff today m8, much appreciated.

WeeredJune 6, 2018 at 10:17 pm ·

Monti… Evening sir… All quiet with ya

jimmybeeJune 6, 2018 at 10:28 pm ·

Weered thank you for your post a bit of history i didnt know about. Much appreciated.

WeeredJune 6, 2018 at 10:41 pm ·

Jimmybee… I saw your piece on Henry Joy and thought I’d just add my wee bit of knowledge about an equally important United Irishman.

The story of the Battle of Antrim is full of Murphys Law… What could go wrong did go wrong.
Henry joys batman died during the battle and is buried in a small church cemetery in Antrim Town. William Orr is buried in a Templepatrick church cemetery

Charlie SaizJune 6, 2018 at 11:17 pm ·

That battlefield isn’t that far from Mazerene Bks

Read that in a Commando Comic I have in my loft 😉

MontiJune 6, 2018 at 11:21 pm ·

🙂

WeeredJune 6, 2018 at 11:41 pm ·

C S ONE OF THE BATTLE ATTACK START POSITIONS WAS CLOSE TO MASSEREENE. THE SMALL GARRISON WAS AT MASSEREENE STREET…

every hun a know wants tae turn thur cheating intae a celtic v sevco thing fuckem weel wait tae see wit the compliance guy sais after that celtic will act ps a dont understand why other teams in the league are not callin oot the hun cheatin …………..or naw a dae like ma auld da said in scotland they are awe huns at heart

charlieJune 6, 2018 at 11:40 pm ·

monti a think wee should have a competition aboot who had the beautifullest teacher at school

MontiJune 7, 2018 at 7:05 am ·

Charlie,
My English teacher had the biggest nipples in Scotland, or was it History…they may even have been the biggest in history….
Anyway, there was no problem getting me to pay attention 🙂

WeeredJune 6, 2018 at 11:48 pm ·

Charlie… Nice to see you are not down in the mouth…

charlieJune 6, 2018 at 11:53 pm ·

weered the day am doon ile be deid ….

charlieJune 6, 2018 at 11:49 pm ·

always remember this is oor time and dont let hun cheatin steal it aff yees we are blessed to be alive at this time COYBIG

charlieJune 7, 2018 at 12:03 am ·

MontiJune 7, 2018 at 7:10 am ·

Charlie,
That get’s the juices flowing…..

charlieJune 7, 2018 at 12:15 am ·

heers wan about the gemmest of the gemme

charlieJune 7, 2018 at 12:16 am ·

charlieJune 7, 2018 at 12:29 am ·

this will be oor favorite tune next year sum people say a say that every year ……..but fuck the naysayers

charlieJune 7, 2018 at 12:30 am ·

charlieJune 7, 2018 at 12:43 am ·

heers wan for mi ke the fermer ide tellum aboot the celebrations that night but he was robably in traynors watchin it

Watched the “LOVE” story on the BBC last night, what a fucking shambles (as per) in Argentina, braw country the Scots have always been well thought of over there. It was good to see Macari’s pass again to Martin Buchan who crossed for Dalgleish to head in and beat Wales to qualify. We had some wonderful players but the organisation was.. shite. IMO Scotland will never progress in football terms until full trust is restored in the governing bodies, the 5 way agreement needs to come out of the closet and be.. torn up. If you don’t trust the governing bodies, how can you unite the support for the national team, you cannot. So if you want to progress with the National team AND Scottish football get it fixed.

Fruedian slip again there Jinky, Me massell I want to see another quality right back and centre-back and good yins, nain of this bargain basement shite. If Brendan sends Morgan out on loan, we will need another left-side winger.. McMcMclean.. oh yeh, but most of all even if Dembelle is staying (for the moment) I want to see French Eddy back where he belongs, if not… Heeds will roll. So thats the incomers sorted, then get rid of the donkey’s and that’s the squad fixed.
(Hee Haw) gies a carrot as he gallops towards Blackpool beach, free rides and a stick of Blackpool rock.. lovely jubberly.