Urbn:So, no property tax, no interest on the loan/lease, no recycling police (is that really an issue anywhere?), no farmland, a demand that everyone stores at least a year's worth of a food/supplies (but many of the housing sizes would never be able to accommodate that), and they will be off the grid (does that include trash, too?)...

This place is going to look like the slums of Brazil or India within 5 months at full occupancy...

And that's assuming they last that long before getting harsh lesson in the importance of sanitation systems when a lot of people live in close proximity.

If this all comes to fruition, it will prove to be an interesting Animal Farm-like experiment. They think they're forming a Patriot Utopia, but human nature always wins. Their society will begin to tear at the seams and they won't have the leadership or infrastructure in place to repair it.

I look forward to seeing it, although as always in these situations, I feel sorry for the children involved.

I've said it before... the Republican idea of utopia is standing atop the rampart of your mansion-fortress, gun in one hand and dick in the other, jerking off as you watch the rest of society starve to death outside.

I love how the word "Patriot" now means "someone who hates the government."

As far as the worship of guns that appears there (a museum of firearms? really? how about a temple of firearms?) I think it may have something to do with the preppers who relish pointing out that in the apocalypse, you don't need to know anything about engineering, farming, medicine, or any kind of technology when you can simply take what you want from unarmed people.

Great_Milenko:I pity any children who are dragged there to live by their insane prepper parents. Of course, this thing is still in the "planning" stages, so it's probably nothing more than a scheme to separate scared lunatics from their $33 thanks to the "application fee". Either that, or it's viral marketing for a reality show. The Patriot Agreement is comedy gold. I will be shocked if they actually build this monument to bed wetting.

And from Wikipedia:

The racial makeup of the county was 88.66% White, 0.12% Black or African American, 8.94% Native American, 0.15% Asian, 0.05% Pacific Islander, 0.25% from other races, and 1.82% from two or more races. 1.55% of the population were Hispanic or Latino of any race. 26.6% were of German, 11.7% English, 9.5% American and 8.6% Irish ancestry according to Census 2000.

I'm sure that had nothing whatsover with the selection of Benewah (balls) County as the location of Berghof II.

Northern Idaho and Eastern Washington have had, shall we say, "weapons-grade derp" for decades. Google Ruby Ridge, I'm sure you have, neo-nazi HQ up there by Hayden Lake too, and then there was the guy a few weeks ago who took his Constitutionalist views to court over a bicycle traffic citation and ended up on youtube getting tazed. "I will not form joinder with you! I am a not a Man, I am a Person!" -- using some half baked naval law interpretation that 1) since captains are legal authority aboard a ship at sea, you 2) therefore can claim you are the captain of your own "ship" (your Person) and 3) therefore not be subject to any federal laws.

Weapons grade derp is a growth industry in northern idaho and eastern washington.

You know what's hilarious? I have a gun-nut cousin who has been extremely vocal on Facebook the past couple years about gun rights. Re-posting all the usual, terrible infographics and "fact pictures", linking to every story of local violence he can find and pointing out how it could have been avoided (spoiler alert: guns)...I think there may have even been a few WND links sprinkled here and there.

The other day I suddenly realized I hadn't seen much from him lately, and wondered if I had hidden one too many of his links and Facebook was just black-holing his stuff to me. I get to looking and notice that his profile has been scrubbed of nearly everything, his name has changed slightly, and I'm no longer his friend. Clearly he's deleted his Facebook account and created another one.

Turns out his job at a public university ran out of grant funding for his position and he's looking for a job.

whidbey:What is the Citadel?The Citadel is a developing community of Patriots in the mountains of Idaho who believe in Jefferson's Rightful Liberty and have chosen to live amongst one another, who have sworn their Lives, their Fortunes and their Sacred Honor to defend one another and Liberty.

OHHHHHH shiat.

Nah. It's just an old-school company town, repackaged as a Freedom Center.

What is the Citadel?The Citadel is a developing community of Patriots in the mountains of Idaho who believe in Jefferson's Rightful Liberty and have chosen to live amongst one another, who have sworn their Lives, their Fortunes and their Sacred Honor to defend one another and Liberty.

randomjsa:Except for that whole "likes America" thing, I don't see why liberals would not be in full support of this. It sounds pretty much like something they would come up with except for, as I say "likes America" thing.

Don't Troll Me Bro!:So:1) a bunch of these nutters voluntarily remove themselves from the rest of society2) they serve as an example to some people that are considering this sort of idea, changing some minds in the process3) delicious irony shall be feasted upon by the rest of us... and we'll share with each other... cuz we's teh soshulizts....

I'm okay with this

I just feel sorry for the collateral damage they'd do; family members, children they'd take out with them, delivery men or police they'd kill for daring show up at their fortress of derpitude, etc.

NeverDrunk23:They will turn it into the exact oppressive society that they constantly claim to protest and fear the government will turn into.

So:1) a bunch of these nutters voluntarily remove themselves from the rest of society2) they serve as an example to some people that are considering this sort of idea, changing some minds in the process3) delicious irony shall be feasted upon by the rest of us... and we'll share with each other... cuz we's teh soshulizts....

Mrbogey:El Dudereno: Lost Thought 00: More than likely they will forget how to feed themselves, and then throw a hissy fit when the nearest megamart does accept barter

Nah. They'll have their emergency seed kits to last until they forget to rotate crops for a few years. And enough wild game to last one season until they over-harvest because they just like shooting stuff.

The comment about the recycling police made me wonder what their plan is for garbage removal. Burn it or bury it I guess.The thing about modern cities is that we take for granted garbage service, sewers, and water treatment. These people will likely suffer from every disease you could die from in Oregon Trail.

While this bills itself as a walled off city, it will most certainly be more akin to a neighborhood/town. I imagine waste disposal and sewage will be treated like in any suburban development.

Here's the nifty things from a utility perspective. Since it's a planned community, they can set sewage, water, and telecom lines in a planned matter so it'll be cheaper to maintain and provide better service. With the right telecom planning they could all end up with faster internet than 90% of America.

They can do a lot of things--smart things, thoughtful things, forward-thinking things. You know who usually avoids smart, thoughtful, forward-thinking approaches to modern life? The target audience for places like III Citadel. Do you really think they'd BRAG about "no recycling police," phrasing it in exactly that stupid way, but have a modern, efficient, well-planned and comprehensive waste management system in place? The answer...is no.

My 8th grade social studies class did a project on creating a planned community once. That thing had more thought and expertise put into it than III Citadel appears to.

Mrbogey:Here's the nifty things from a utility perspective. Since it's a planned community, they can set sewage, water, and telecom lines in a planned matter so it'll be cheaper to maintain and provide better service. With the right telecom planning they could all end up with faster internet than 90% of America.

Yes I'm sure companies will be lining up to do business with some nutjobs in a walled compound.

So, no property tax, no interest on the loan/lease, no recycling police (is that really an issue anywhere?), no farmland, a demand that everyone stores at least a year's worth of a food/supplies (but many of the housing sizes would never be able to accommodate that), and they will be off the grid (does that include trash, too?)...

This place is going to look like the slums of Brazil or India within 5 years at full occupancy...

Well. This looks entirely safe and not at all like it's going to seriously warp the children.

/I'd be fine with them doing whatever the hell they want, but they spend a lot of that 'Patriot's Pledge' focused on teaching kids to shoot. Which would be fine if they weren't doing it because they REALLY REALLY FEEL THE NEED to let the kids know SOMEONE WILL TRY TO KILL THEM, AND PROBABLY THE GUBMINT. That is not healthy.//Seriously, can the FBI just work out a 'you guys calm down the crazy with the kids and we won't come after your asses'-type deal with them? Sounds like the best solution for everyone. Let them get bored and walk away on their own.

Raharu:qorkfiend: Target Builder: So looking into this it seems the III Arms Company successfully files it's articles of incorporation (or whatever it's called) back in August 2012.

Link

I'm trying to work out if this is:

A: A rather elaborate marketing plan for a startup gun manufacturerB: A ScamC: The actual plans of a highly delusional personD: Some combination of A, B and C

Assuming it's "C", this is their vision of what their community will look like (see link above):

[2.bp.blogspot.com image 800x537]

derpy: I like that it's a lifetime lease for your house (no individual ownership), but YOU have to finish your house yourself.

No.

Note - they can also kick you out of the ommunity after you've paid for construction and interior completion.

I agree with the guy up thread who speculated it was an attempt to create a company town. They're set up to produce firearms; they're self-selecting a labor pool that favors firearms; the only place with any room to expand in the town is the factory. They've even got company scrip.

Wait they do? Company scrip? Really?!

There's something in there about minting gold and silver "Citadel Coins".

Target Builder:So looking into this it seems the III Arms Company successfully files it's articles of incorporation (or whatever it's called) back in August 2012.

Link

I'm trying to work out if this is:

A: A rather elaborate marketing plan for a startup gun manufacturerB: A ScamC: The actual plans of a highly delusional personD: Some combination of A, B and C

Assuming it's "C", this is their vision of what their community will look like (see link above):

[2.bp.blogspot.com image 800x537]

derpy: I like that it's a lifetime lease for your house (no individual ownership), but YOU have to finish your house yourself.

No.

Note - they can also kick you out of the ommunity after you've paid for construction and interior completion.

I agree with the guy up thread who speculated it was an attempt to create a company town. They're set up to produce firearms; they're self-selecting a labor pool that favors firearms; the only place with any room to expand in the town is the factory. They've even got company scrip.

Sock Ruh Tease:They even plan their primary source of revenue to be arms manufacturing.

Yeah, they've got a whole new idea for a firearm that they're banking on.

Flaming Yawn:I love how the word "Patriot" now means "someone who hates the government."As far as the worship of guns that appears there (a museum of firearms? really? how about a temple of firearms?) I think it may have something to do with the preppers who relish pointing out that in the apocalypse, you don't need to know anything about engineering, farming, medicine, or any kind of technology when you can simply take what you want from unarmed people.

Kind of weird how the same idea keeps coming out of people like this--how they're entitled to live outside the laws of society, and take what they "need." Pretty boring life philosophy, when you think about it. Selfish dicks and criminals have had that idea since the beginning of time.

I enjoy shooting (both recreationally and competitively) as much as the next guy and I'm concerned about government overreach (e.g. PATRIOT ACT, warrantless wiretapping, indefinite detention, and TSA body scanners to name but a few) but this is absurd and really makes me wonder about the sanity of some people.

I don't care what they build, they could build Cinderella's Castle for all I care, I just don't understand the usefulness in practical terms. If they really wanted to do this, why not build a low profile community and a series of safe/store houses and bunkers scattered throughout the area to run to if the SHTF?

And actually, this IS what "normal" survivalists and most LDS church members already have up in rural idaho/utah. Every LDS is expected to save up for the coming apocalypse, and many do. Which means if STHF ever really, just head for the nearest mormons house.

Farmer's market but no farms, firearms museum but no shooting range or hunting ground, and they seem to be preparing for an invasion by Vikings rather than building any sort of actually useful defensive structures...

So much THIS. Looking at that "citadel" I see a fairy-tale castle that couldn't hold off a determined band of cub scouts. So, no actual experience with defensive structures, just "put up walls and towers". Sheesh. lots of chance of undermining, nevermind what artillery would do. Heck, an RPG would do.

Just a few points. Since when was socialism a lifestyle? If you are free, why are there towers inside the compound? finally, "they talk of using a panel to resove disputes: Isn't that, by definition, comunism?

The Citadel was on Fark before, but back then, they only had a WordPress blog. Now they've grown into a full website. It brings a tear to my eye to see that. Derp grows up so fast. *sniffle*

But seriously, the entire "Patriot Agreement" (which you have to agree to to apply to live in their castle) is focused on defense, particularly militia training and marksmanship. There's absolutely no information on how people will live with each other. They even plan their primary source of revenue to be arms manufacturing.

It leads me to believe they're giving themselves one option to solve disagreements within their community.

Farmer's market but no farms, firearms museum but no shooting range or hunting ground, and they seem to be preparing for an invasion by Vikings rather than building any sort of actually useful defensive structures... This seems ill-conceived.

Also, when did the rifle become the icon of American liberty? Surely the flag, or the bald eagle, or SOMETHING ranks higher than the rifle in terms of national symbolism. If not, we're really farked.

Patriots: The following represents a voluntary set of conditions to which every single Patriot who accepts a residence in the Citadel must agree, in writing. This is a voluntary Agreement. The Citadel is a martial endeavor designed to protect Residents in times of peril (natural or man-made). The Citadel will be built as a fortified bastion of Liberty. The Citadel is not the best housing solution for everyone. Read carefully.

The purpose of this agreement is two-fold. Firstly, it informs all Residents of their obligations to their fellow Patriots. Secondly, this Agreement will assist individuals/families in making an informed decision to opt-out of residency in the Citadel Community in the event our lifestyle is incompatible with you and/or your family.

Preamble: We the People come together in this covenant of our free will and do pledge our Lives, our Fortunes and our Sacred Honor to defend one another and Jefferson's Rightful Liberty, defined as unobstructed action according to our will within limits drawn around us by the equal rights of others. We further affirm our intent to abide all Constitutional laws of the United States of America and our State of residence.

One: Once ratified, this list of conditions may only be altered by unanimous consent of all parties governed by this Agreement, i.e. full-time Residents. Full-time residency will be defined by a select panel of full-time Residents who will also establish guidelines for acceptable exceptions for absences.

Two: Every able-bodied Patriot aged 13 and older governed by this Agreement shall annually demonstrate proficiency with the rifle of his/her choice by hitting a man-sized steel target at 100 yards with open sights at the Citadel range. Each Resident shall have 10 shots and must hit the target at least 7 times.

Three: Every able-bodied Patriot aged 13 and older governed by this Agreement shall annually demonstrate proficiency with a handgun of choice by hitting a man-sized steel target at 25 yards with open sights at the Citadel range. Each Resident shall have 10 shots and must hit the target at least 7 times.

Four: Every able-bodied Patriot of age within the Citadel will maintain one AR15 variant in 5.56mm NATO, at least 5 magazines and 1,000 rounds of ammunition. The responsibility for maintaining functional arms and ammunition levels for every member of the household shall fall to the head of household. Every able-bodied Patriot will be responsible for maintaining a Tactical Go Bag or Muster Kit to satisfy the Minuteman concept. Details TBD and posted elsewhere.

Five: Every household within the Citadel will remain stocked with sufficient food, water, and other preparedness essentials (to be detailed elsewhere) to sustain the needs for every member of the household for a duration of one year.

Six: Every able-bodied Patriot aged 13 and older shall pass a class every three years sponsored by the Citadel on basic emergency medical care; the courses shall focus on battlefield and wilderness environments.

Seven: Every child attending Citadel schools - with parental discretion for maturity - shall have as part of every semester's class curriculum basic marksmanship and firearms safety training leading to the proficiency test on the child's 13th birthday as a "Coming of Age" rite of passage (a parent may attend the classes or personally train the child if so desired). Children attending schools beyond the Citadel, or home-schooled, are required to meet the same proficiency standards at age 13.

Eight: All Patriots, who are of age and are not legally restricted from bearing firearms, shall agree to remain armed with a loaded sidearm whenever visiting the Citadel Town Center. Firearm shall be on-the-person and under the control of the Resident, not merely stored in a vehicle.

Nine: Each household will provide ONE able-bodied Patriot (aged 13 or older) who shall muster one Saturday per month for Martial/Support Training for neighborhood-level training & musters, as set forth by the Militia Commanders of the Community. No single Patriot shall be required to muster more than once per quarter. In the course of every calendar year every able-bodied Patriot and every full-time resident in each household must participate in at least three musters (one neighborhood-level and two full-scale). Part-time residents must participate, in good faith, to the best of their ability.

Ten: Twice annually a full-scale Town Defense Drill will be held for all households and all residents (once in winter weather & once in summer weather).

Eleven: The Town Militia will hold an award/recognition ceremony on April 19th each year to celebrate Patriot's Day.

Twelve: Violations of this Agreement will result in review by an arbitration panel consisting of Citadel Residents with appropriate and proportional disciplinary action taken. The most severe disciplinary action may include the loss of Lease and expulsion from the community.

Thirteen: All Citadel Citizens agree to accept dispute resolution by an arbitration panel in the event a problem that cannot be resolved between residents.

Live ink signatures from all adult applicants (age 18 and above) is required prior to final approval for residency in the Citadel Community.

You are the Chosen Ones. You have been raised up from Brutality to kill the Brutals that multiply and are legion.To this end, Zardoz, your God, gave you the gift of the gun.

Whats so awesome is all they've done so far is buy some land on a Native American reservation and put up a web site, yet they're already getting pushback and hostility from the already-living-there-not-quite-as-crazy natives of Northern Idaho.

Derpy isolationist nut is kind of a cottage industry up there.

// I have to be in CDA in a few weeks, can't wait to hear all about it.

I pity any children who are dragged there to live by their insane prepper parents. Of course, this thing is still in the "planning" stages, so it's probably nothing more than a scheme to separate scared lunatics from their $33 thanks to the "application fee". Either that, or it's viral marketing for a reality show. The Patriot Agreement is comedy gold. I will be shocked if they actually build this monument to bed wetting.

And from Wikipedia:

The racial makeup of the county was 88.66% White, 0.12% Black or African American, 8.94% Native American, 0.15% Asian, 0.05% Pacific Islander, 0.25% from other races, and 1.82% from two or more races. 1.55% of the population were Hispanic or Latino of any race. 26.6% were of German, 11.7% English, 9.5% American and 8.6% Irish ancestry according to Census 2000.

I'm sure that had nothing whatsover with the selection of Benewah (balls) County as the location of Berghof II.

James F. Campbell:FormlessOne: As an aside, this kind of thing always reminds of "The Survivors."

/Giving cigarettes to trees?! Sick!

That movie was not nearly as funny as I was expecting it to be, considering it had two comedy greats in it.

Honestly, it really depended on when you saw it - when it came out in the early 80's, the whole "survivalist" bit was a relatively new cultural phenomenon. The real downer was that Matthau & Williams really didn't work well together - you could take either of them, but not both of them together. They just didn't jive. It had some memorable parts ("... now his tongue is in my HAND...", "...Hi, Jack! Want some pancakes?"), but I do agree that it could've been a lot funnier if they had kept either Matthau or Williams, and then brought in a second, different comedian to play the complementary role.

whidbey:qorkfiend: whidbey: What is the Citadel?The Citadel is a developing community of Patriots in the mountains of Idaho who believe in Jefferson's Rightful Liberty and have chosen to live amongst one another, who have sworn their Lives, their Fortunes and their Sacred Honor to defend one another and Liberty.

OHHHHHH shiat.

Nah. It's just an old-school company town, repackaged as a Freedom Center.

Now look, we don't need your New York Union Man rhetoric raining on this wonderful opportunity.

qorkfiend:whidbey: What is the Citadel?The Citadel is a developing community of Patriots in the mountains of Idaho who believe in Jefferson's Rightful Liberty and have chosen to live amongst one another, who have sworn their Lives, their Fortunes and their Sacred Honor to defend one another and Liberty.

OHHHHHH shiat.

Nah. It's just an old-school company town, repackaged as a Freedom Center.

Now look, we don't need your New York Union Man rhetoric raining on this wonderful opportunity.

I remember the Fark article about this place a few weeks ago. It's good to see they're not giving up yet, it promises to be entertaining.

From the FAQ:----------------What Threats Do You Expect to Defend Against?

The Citadel is primarily designed to defend against a grid-down, economic collapse scenario. When most people ask this question they are thinking in terms of defending against violent action but there are other aspects to defending ourselves. Self-sufficiency in terms of food, water and energy are also a form of defense against a collapse scenario, so these are a major part of our plan.

The Citadel is not designed to withstand any direct .Mil or .Gov attack. Nor is the Citadel, in any manner, attempting to provoke any government entity.-----------

This is pretty funny when you consider they have blog posts for stuff like this:their blog

Part of their planning is finding a location for services and goods that they can't and won't be providing themselves. Naturally, this specific search is for a nursing home.Also, apparently URLs might want to attack them.

LoneWolf343:Lochsteppe: LoneWolf343: Wait, so they have a huge space for a gun factory to produce weapons they expect to become illegal...who will they be selling the guns to? Themselves?

This is just one of a planned trade network* of walled nutbowls. Each will specialize in producing one needed good: guns, ammo, flags, patriotic hats, inchoate rage, and so forth. When America That Was descends into fiery chaos due to slightly better-regulated healthcare, these bright stars will form the new American constellation.

FormlessOne:NewportBarGuy: Oh Jesus. Now that I actually read that... Wow. Yes, keep them all in one place, please. Proceed.

This is the new exploitable opportunity. This isn't the only "planned community" gearing up to become a bizarre little entrenched settlement, and the asking price to get in something like this is very steep.

Just follow the money, and see where it goes.

Easy; the firearm manufacturer who came up with this whole idea, who coincidentally has a firearms factory in a town where the residents are required to own firearms. I'm sure they'll get a sizable amount from selling their concrete corporate houses that the residents get to pay to finish, as well. Oh, and the money laundering with those fancy "Citadel Coins".

NewportBarGuy:Oh Jesus. Now that I actually read that... Wow. Yes, keep them all in one place, please. Proceed.

This is the new exploitable opportunity. This isn't the only "planned community" gearing up to become a bizarre little entrenched settlement, and the asking price to get in something like this is very steep.

Mrbogey:El Dudereno: Lost Thought 00: More than likely they will forget how to feed themselves, and then throw a hissy fit when the nearest megamart does accept barter

Nah. They'll have their emergency seed kits to last until they forget to rotate crops for a few years. And enough wild game to last one season until they over-harvest because they just like shooting stuff.

The comment about the recycling police made me wonder what their plan is for garbage removal. Burn it or bury it I guess.The thing about modern cities is that we take for granted garbage service, sewers, and water treatment. These people will likely suffer from every disease you could die from in Oregon Trail.

While this bills itself as a walled off city, it will most certainly be more akin to a neighborhood/town. I imagine waste disposal and sewage will be treated like in any suburban development.

Here's the nifty things from a utility perspective. Since it's a planned community, they can set sewage, water, and telecom lines in a planned matter so it'll be cheaper to maintain and provide better service. With the right telecom planning they could all end up with faster internet than 90% of America.

They didn't even plan for enough farmland to feed even a small fraction of these families; I sincerely doubt they've planned anything nifty for any other practicality. They put more thought into what age someone should be able to shoot headshots at 70% than they did anything around the day to day logistics of this community.

Raharu:Twelve: Violations of this Agreement will result in review by an arbitration panel consisting of Citadel Residents with appropriate and proportional disciplinary action taken. The most severe disciplinary action may include the loss of Lease and expulsion from the community.

Thirteen: All Citadel Citizens agree to accept dispute resolution by an arbitration panel in the event a problem that cannot be resolved between residents.

Those will be the sort of people who are fundamentally incapable of cooperation in any way. I foresee much violence in the community.

It has a post office. I thought they hated the government? Why would they avail themselves of government services? If they're so bootstrappy, why not start their own Pony Express or something? No mooching off my tax dollars! *harumph*

El Dudereno:Lost Thought 00: More than likely they will forget how to feed themselves, and then throw a hissy fit when the nearest megamart does accept barter

Nah. They'll have their emergency seed kits to last until they forget to rotate crops for a few years. And enough wild game to last one season until they over-harvest because they just like shooting stuff.

The comment about the recycling police made me wonder what their plan is for garbage removal. Burn it or bury it I guess.The thing about modern cities is that we take for granted garbage service, sewers, and water treatment. These people will likely suffer from every disease you could die from in Oregon Trail.

Diptheria was my favorite!

/Also, those seed kits are pretty useless without farmland to plant them in.

El Dudereno:Lost Thought 00: More than likely they will forget how to feed themselves, and then throw a hissy fit when the nearest megamart does accept barter

Nah. They'll have their emergency seed kits to last until they forget to rotate crops for a few years. And enough wild game to last one season until they over-harvest because they just like shooting stuff.

The comment about the recycling police made me wonder what their plan is for garbage removal. Burn it or bury it I guess.The thing about modern cities is that we take for granted garbage service, sewers, and water treatment. These people will likely suffer from every disease you could die from in Oregon Trail.

Euell Gibbons:Way too many people here care way too much about how others decide to live their lives.

If consenting adults want to check themselves into a company town/slave labor camp/indentured servitude, let them...but there's a lot of talk about children on that site and that's where it turns decidedly uncool. How's that for 'liberty' being forced to shoot at human shaped things all through your childhood before you're an adult and can choose this for yourself? Or being 'educated' by barely functioning paranoids?

Three: Every able-bodied Patriot aged 13 and older governed by this Agreement shall annually demonstrate proficiency with a handgun of choice by hitting a man-sized steel target at 25 yards with open sights at the Citadel range. Each Resident shall have 10 shots and must hit the target at least 7 times.

So, this is what they consider "proficient" with a handgun. A stationary target, from 25 yds, the size of a human, and you need to hit it 70% of the time. Heh.

Three: Every able-bodied Patriot aged 13 and older governed by this Agreement shall annually demonstrate proficiency with a handgun of choice by hitting a man-sized steel target at 25 yards with open sights at the Citadel range. Each Resident shall have 10 shots and must hit the target at least 7 times.

So, this is what they consider "proficient" with a handgun. A stationary target, from 25 yds, the size of a human, and you need to hit it 70% of the time. Heh.

Target Builder:Urbn: So, no property tax, no interest on the loan/lease, no recycling police (is that really an issue anywhere?), no farmland, a demand that everyone stores at least a year's worth of a food/supplies (but many of the housing sizes would never be able to accommodate that), and they will be off the grid (does that include trash, too?)...

This place is going to look like the slums of Brazil or India within 5 months at full occupancy...

And that's assuming they last that long before getting harsh lesson in the importance of sanitation systems when a lot of people live in close proximity.

Yeah, regular cholera and typhoid outbreaks will keep opening up housing for new, company town "tenants"

One of the primary reasons for a lease paradigm versus private property inside the walls is our desire to make the community for Patriots only.

The model will be similar in many ways to that of Disneyland. It is walled, gated, private property with controlled access. People pay to enter and agree to the rules because they see value in doing so. It is all based on a voluntary agreement between the owners of the property and those who want to come inside. Millions of people visit Disneyland and interact peacefully. It's exceptionally rare to hear of any serious problems. The key is that those people want to be there and understand what is expected of them. Surprisingly similar to what we are doing.

You guys are nuts. It's going to be just like Disneyland! We just need to go to Derpcott Center to sign our Patriot Agreements!

qorkfiend:Raharu: qorkfiend: Target Builder: So looking into this it seems the III Arms Company successfully files it's articles of incorporation (or whatever it's called) back in August 2012.

Link

I'm trying to work out if this is:

A: A rather elaborate marketing plan for a startup gun manufacturerB: A ScamC: The actual plans of a highly delusional personD: Some combination of A, B and C

Assuming it's "C", this is their vision of what their community will look like (see link above):

[2.bp.blogspot.com image 800x537]

derpy: I like that it's a lifetime lease for your house (no individual ownership), but YOU have to finish your house yourself.

No.

Note - they can also kick you out of the ommunity after you've paid for construction and interior completion.

I agree with the guy up thread who speculated it was an attempt to create a company town. They're set up to produce firearms; they're self-selecting a labor pool that favors firearms; the only place with any room to expand in the town is the factory. They've even got company scrip.

Wait they do? Company scrip? Really?!

There's something in there about minting gold and silver "Citadel Coins".

If the world ends and humanity is reduced to roaming bands of nomadic wastelanders eking out a pathetic existence from the rubble of what was once civilization, what is the use of money? Even if it is in gold and silver coins? I mean without some sort of functional production based economy money is pretty much useless and barter is far more useful for people even in the confines of a 'prepper' apocalypse bunker equivalent. I mean I assume they would pretty much close down the compound to the outside world in the event of a catastrophe so who the hell is gonna need any gold?

"Oh hey thanks for that .12mm caliber ammo you made in the factory here's a gold coin""But I can't eat gold and the grocery store has been closed due to supermutant infestation since the end of the world""OK here's a $20 bill""That's a useless waste of space since the world has ended. What about some food or medical supplies or something useful instead?""Uh... here's a silver coin with a picture of Thomas Jefferson."

qorkfiend:Target Builder: So looking into this it seems the III Arms Company successfully files it's articles of incorporation (or whatever it's called) back in August 2012.

Link

I'm trying to work out if this is:

A: A rather elaborate marketing plan for a startup gun manufacturerB: A ScamC: The actual plans of a highly delusional personD: Some combination of A, B and C

Assuming it's "C", this is their vision of what their community will look like (see link above):

[2.bp.blogspot.com image 800x537]

derpy: I like that it's a lifetime lease for your house (no individual ownership), but YOU have to finish your house yourself.

No.

Note - they can also kick you out of the ommunity after you've paid for construction and interior completion.

I agree with the guy up thread who speculated it was an attempt to create a company town. They're set up to produce firearms; they're self-selecting a labor pool that favors firearms; the only place with any room to expand in the town is the factory. They've even got company scrip.

cbuhler:TopNotched: Then Obama can troll them with hourly surveillance drones, every so many passes drop an M-80 or two into the compound for shiats and giggles.........Where the fark are these people gonna work?

One of the funniest things I've read on here in quite some time. I love the M80 idea..

Extra bonus points: On one or two trips, swap out the M-80 for a vial of suspicious white powder. Because I don't see much of a hospital on that proposed map.

This operation seems as legit as a windowless van hawking free candy. Assuming it's not yet another cheap scam perpetrated on highly irrational, xenophobic war fetishists, this place will implode in six months to a year over an arbitration matter, probably related to trash disposal and extramarital relations. Funny thing about being unable to trust people - makes it damned hard to organize an operating society.

trotsky:Bennie Crabtree: HAHAHA the walls on their fort design are out of date for repelling even an 1812 artillery attack. This is why history degrees are important, people.

Yeah, a M1 could easily just ram through their walls. There's a reason why the Maginot line was outdated before it was even built.

They really have a hard on for their guns, jeez. I bet they want the "patriots" to buy their AR style weapon from the "ARMS Factory".

Talk about fleecing the rubes. Damn, wish I would have thought of this.

Except the Maginot Line wasnt outdated. Its exact purpose was to make the entire Franco-German border so dangerous and costly to cross that any potential invasion would HAVE to go through Belgium. Which is exactly what happened. That the French and BEF failed spectacularly to stop the ONE avenue of invasion that they themselves forced into existence is not the ML's fault.

If you surround every window and door of your house with pitbulls and barbwire except for one, and you STILL get robbed from that one opening, its not the pitbulls fault.

Fail in Human Form:"Fixed fortifications are a monument to the stupidity of man." - Gen. George S. Patton

Kind of are. Though Hezbollah did a pretty good job with them a few years back. Made some that could withstand anything the Israelis threw at them, even had air conditioning. Something tells me these Derpatriots aren't nearly as resourceful or dedicated as Hezbollah though.

TopNotched:Then Obama can troll them with hourly surveillance drones, every so many passes drop an M-80 or two into the compound for shiats and giggles.........Where the fark are these people gonna work?

One of the funniest things I've read on here in quite some time. I love the M80 idea..

CADMonkey79:So where are the anti-aircraft batteries? Guess it doesn't matter a single tank division and a couple of drones and they would be wiped out in a couple of days. It would work fairly well for zombies though.

Sock Ruh Tease:The Citadel was on Fark before, but back then, they only had a WordPress blog. Now they've grown into a full website. It brings a tear to my eye to see that. Derp grows up so fast. *sniffle*

But seriously, the entire "Patriot Agreement" (which you have to agree to to apply to live in their castle) is focused on defense, particularly militia training and marksmanship. There's absolutely no information on how people will live with each other. They even plan their primary source of revenue to be arms manufacturing.

It leads me to believe they're giving themselves one option to solve disagreements within their community.[images2.wikia.nocookie.net image 100x100]

I enjoy shooting (both recreationally and competitively) as much as the next guy and I'm concerned about government overreach (e.g. PATRIOT ACT, warrantless wiretapping, indefinite detention, and TSA body scanners to name but a few) but this is absurd and really makes me wonder about the sanity of some people.

I mean, couldn't they save a bit of money and resources by simply living where they currently are and writing a letter to their Congressman to express their displeasure with how certain things are going and to propose suggestions as to how they think things might be improved? That's what normal people do.

Doc Lee:Tempting. Would be a big money maker with all of the inbreeding.

HOUSING DETAILS: All homes will be built of poured concrete for exceptional strength and durability. Your home will be built to your specs (details available at this website) with utilities stubbed to the interior. You select the facade for the exterior of your home. You are responsible for completing the interior of your home as you wish. You may choose to do the work yourself, or hire contractors. But every single detail, from paint to tiles to counters, is your choice.

MusicMakeMyHeadPound:lj1330: Just a few points. Since when was socialism a lifestyle? If you are free, why are there towers inside the compound? finally, "they talk of using a panel to resove disputes: Isn't that, by definition, comunism?

Close. Communism is a stateless, classless society in which resources are pooled to the people in greatest need.

Using a panel to resolve disputes is just that: using a panel to resolve disputes.

See also: Directory, French Revolution."Directory, group of five men who held the executive power in France according to the constitution of the year III (1795) of the French Revolution."

Subtle_Canary:The defenses seem based around keeping out roaming bands of neer-do-wells after the 'inevitable' collapse of civilization. Has nothing to do with stopping a full military assault.

These guys watch doomsday preppers WAY too much

That seems a little foolish since, if there were a collapse, the government would probably crack down like you wouldn't imagine when they declare martial law. If THAT'S their goal they'd be much better served by flying "under the radar" instead of building a cartoon castle.

Farmer's market but no farms, firearms museum but no shooting range or hunting ground, and they seem to be preparing for an invasion by Vikings rather than building any sort of actually useful defensive structures... This seems ill-conceived.

Also, when did the rifle become the icon of American liberty? Surely the flag, or the bald eagle, or SOMETHING ranks higher than the rifle in terms of national symbolism. If not, we're really farked.

That community's defense are practically impenetrable. Provided airplanes no longer exist and people forget about mortars, this is the modern equivalent of Helm's Deep.

born_yesterday:CADMonkey79: So where are the anti-aircraft batteries? Guess it doesn't matter a single tank division and a couple of drones and they would be wiped out in a couple of days. It would work fairly well for zombies though.

Until the market ran out of food. Seriously, this has to be a joke. No one is stupid enough to give these people money, are they?

I though it was fake at first but apparently not. Yes, there are people that stupid/crazy, swing by free republic.

lj1330:Just a few points. Since when was socialism a lifestyle? If you are free, why are there towers inside the compound? finally, "they talk of using a panel to resove disputes: Isn't that, by definition, comunism?

Communism works well for small groups. Families and church congregations are basically communist. The problems arise when the bolsheviks or nutty dictators show up and don't let you leave.

So where are the anti-aircraft batteries? Guess it doesn't matter a single tank division and a couple of drones and they would be wiped out in a couple of days. It would work fairly well for zombies though.

Farmer's market but no farms, firearms museum but no shooting range or hunting ground, and they seem to be preparing for an invasion by Vikings rather than building any sort of actually useful defensive structures... This seems ill-conceived.

Also, when did the rifle become the icon of American liberty? Surely the flag, or the bald eagle, or SOMETHING ranks higher than the rifle in terms of national symbolism. If not, we're really farked.

It's not being built for real defense. It's for hardcore LARPing. This is the real life equivalent of moving your character to a PVP server.

FTFA: Physical preparedness to survive and prevail in the face of natural catastrophes - such as Hurricanes Sandy or Katrina - or man-made catastrophes such as a power grid failure or economic collapse.