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I was just thinking about this, and please just ignore me if that doesn't make sense or you have thought about this already (my students usually ignore me, so why shouldn't you...):

Isn't there a way in such a case to give people some kind of grace period, at least if the dialogue is not initiated by the respective person? ? Something like 'I see you are a knifemaker and you entered here in a discussion about your knives. We welcome your input, but please be aware that we only allow a 2-week grace period after which you are required to decide if you want to become a paying member or stop contributing anything that falls under the vendor privilege.' I have a feeling that many of us would welcome input from other knifemakers and appreciate a dialogue, and I found the - what appears to be - immediate ban in this case a bit harsh. Just contemplating how we could invite them rather than brushing them off. Of course, anybody who actively comes in with 'Here are my products, go buy them!' would still be SPAM.

For what it's worth, I didn't read through this entire thread but I have used one of the original Onion Shun chef's knife and did not find it was particularly nice. It was serviceable in terms of cutting ability but heavy and awkward depending on the technique. As for how this all unfolded, it seems like the lesson is if you are a vendor, make sure people can't tell that's what you are unless you're paying. Seems fair to me although I've seen a few posts from former vendors but those are few and far between. Regardless, I don't think it's a big deal. As several folks mentioned, he doesn't need this forum, he clearly didn't benefit from any of the discussion that happened over the years on this and the previous forum and he certainly contributed nothing to this one. I'm pretty confident there is nothing earth shattering in the design of the knives. It looks different, kinda like a knuckle-sandwich looks different. I'm sure there are plenty of folks that are happy with either.

Bram, you are correct. His responses are in thread. I just read up to my last post but didn't realize I had missed his response even earlier. So with my ignorance exposed, I do think a solution like Sefan's would be cool -- and would be a bich to be administered by the mods. But aren't we all a bit bitchy about knives? And that is sort of cool.

So I write this as I am watching on YouTube an old episode of "It's Your Move" with Jason Bateman. What an awesome smartass.

k.

There is a cult of ignorance in the United States...nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that “my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.” -- Isaac Asimov

Bram, you are correct. His responses are in thread. I just read up to my last post but didn't realize I had missed his response even earlier. So with my ignorance exposed, I do think a solution like Sefan's would be cool -- and would be a bich to be administered by the mods. But aren't we all a bit bitchy about knives? And that is sort of cool.

So I write this as I am watching on YouTube an old episode of "It's Your Move" with Jason Bateman. What an awesome smartass.

k.

Loved that show. He really made his mark with that. Didn't help that his sister was doing better than him at the time. I thought the show had a lot more legs, but the people liked Dynasty (die nastly) better.

It seems the rules are what they are, but he should at least have been allowed to respond to a personal attack as he did. And I wouldn't say it was necessarily 'ungentlemanly' either.

Edipis is the KKF's Internet Tough Guy. Quick to dish it out from behind his keyboard that's missing the caps/shift button function, but runs and hides when he's confronted (or just puts you on ignore when he's mentally overmatched, which is most likely 98.7% of the time).

Telling Ken to "man up," but most likely knowing that he's going to get the ban hammer by simply posting here is complete chicken ****. However, I, like Ken, have continued to check back in this thread to see if he'll actually produce some insight into designing, manufacturing, marketing and distributing a decent kitchen knife.

However, on to the knife, which, interestingly enough, I was looking at the KO/Chef Works Rain last night after having finished massaging my pinky finger on my cutting hand for several hours in an effort to regain feeling in said digit due to using a straight ass octagonal handled knife to chop through four cases of squash and zucchini which left my finger numb. My original intent was looking at possible new jackets as I like their fit through the shoulders and the chest when I noticed that they had the new knifes up to view. I became intrigued due to the use of the Carpenter steel (Harner is using the XHP more and more and cutting performance and the ability to hold an edge seems to be a theme with a lot of the Carpenter steels, though I'm not aware of anyone currently using the BZD1 other than this series) and the no-nonsense handle material. I haven't used a KO knife before, but I'm willing to try anything in an effort to help alleviate the fatigue I often experience at work due to the sheer volume of mats I process on a daily basis. D and Octagonal handles just don't translate well in this regard regardless of how freaking sharp my knives are.

The steel potential, the no-nonsense, high durability handle material, the slightly smaller belly on the CW/KO Rain versus the KO Shun's and the purported ergonomics seems very encouraging - at least to my specific needs. I plan on picking up the KO/CW Rain 10" Chef's when available and giving it a hard core test drive right out of the gate.

Wow. On one hand (am about to have many many hands) I feel defensive about characterizing Edipis that way. I don't agree with that and attacking established members is not a great way to build cred. On the other hand (this is the second hand) I kind of would love to see some interaction with Ken Onion if he were open to it on a regular basis and not just defending a product. And then on the other hand (3rd one), Dave is correct in that he hasn't participated in the forum. But there is that one hand (4th hand), where saccogoo chimes in and he only has posted in response to Shun and Onion knives only. Seems suspicious and makes me think the policy of the forum makes sense.

I think I am just going to drink more alcohol.

And btw, here are my 2 cents. I used to hate wa handles and now I love them. Even if Ken Onion had rave reviews of his steel, geometry, profile etc. I would shy away from his knives because of the handles alone. Ken Onion handles are the exact opposite of wa handles IMO. I've only handled a couple Onion knives, but wa handles give maxium flexibility while sacrificing contours and the other (Onions) channels the hand and fixes it in place. That is not to my liking.

But what do I know.

k.

There is a cult of ignorance in the United States...nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that “my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.” -- Isaac Asimov