Pros/cons of individual Lessons

I sent out a query two weeks ago about high school choir and band lessons.My compilation is a bit late, and for that I apologize. (However, we DIDhave two days off last week due to icy roads. Is that an excuse or anexplanation? You make the call!)

Here is my original posting and a follow-up I made a couple of days later.The compilation of responses (I received about 30!) follows my"clarification." Thanks to all who replied. Please note that your responsesmay have been trimmed in my attempt to make this compilation somewhat brief(although I'm afraid I failed miserably at that task!). I hope I conveyedyour original intent. The basic message I got was that if you're in an areathat does have lessons (or "guided practices," as I called them), you can'timagine a music program without them. If you're in an area that doesn'thave them, you see them as a luxury and can't believe anyone else getsthem. Quite interesting.

-------------------------------ORIGINAL POSTING-------------------------------I have a small problem with which I'd appreciate some help. Our schoolsuperintendent is suggesting our high school of 250 students NOT providelessons for kids in band and choir, thereby saving time (and, I assume,allowing him to cut a teacher.)

Currently, our choir students each have a 20 minute lesson and the bandstudents each have a 15 minute lesson. Some of these are in groups of up tofour students, sometimes they are individual, depending on studentschedules (we try to do them during study halls).

I told the superintendent that the music program would suffer if weeliminated lessons, but he replied, "I come from Colorado, and I neverheard of giving kids choir or band lessons in school until I moved here. Iknow of five Western states that don't offer lessons in ANY schools." Hestarted to name Arizona and New Mexico before I stopped him. Is he right?

In my high school days (Minnesota) and during my teaching years(Wisconsin), lessons were understood to be part of the program. I know insome bigger schools, students take lessons outside of school from privateteachers, but that is not an option here. What's it like at your highschool? I'd like to get as many responses as possible before I tell my bossthat I'm right and he's wrong. ;-)

-----------------------If you have time, I'd appreciate the following info (I'd especially like tohear from directors at high schools around 250 kids 9-12 and from directorsin the Western US states):

Size of your school:

Number of choir students:

Number of band students:

The state you teach in:

Your lesson situation: (how many per week, how long each lesson is, groupsor individual, etc.)

How your choir lesson schedule compares with The band lesson schedule:(ours is pretty much the same. Kids have one band and one choir lesson perweek)

Any other information you deem pertinent would also be appreciated.

Please send any replies directly to me at nason(a)rrsd.k12.wi.us and I willmake a compilation of replies to post to the list next week. Thanks foryour time!

-----------------------------------------------FOLLOW-UP (a couple of days later)-----------------------------------------------Thanks to everyone who already responded to my original posting.

I feel I may have been a bit vague. When I talked about lessons, I didn'tmean voice lessons like we got when I was in college. What we have isone-on-one time (or one-on-four) to teach notes and rhythms and to work onthe large group songs. Believe it or not, some smaller schools like ourshave kids in choir who wouldn't make it through the auditions at some ofyour bigger schools. They just enjoy singing, but they need help. So theycome in once a week for 20 minutes and we go over their music. The moreadvanced kids get more advanced work, but still not at the level ofexpertise they would get by going to a university voice teacher.

I wish ALL our kids could learn all their parts just by coming to rehearsaltwo or three days a week. (We have choir on Tuesdays and Thursdays, theband rehearses Mondays and Wednesdays, and we alternate Fridays.) However,that just isn't the case. While walking around the choir during rehearsals,I can pick out the kids who are singing the wrong notes. But I have nodesire to pick them out in the large group rehearsal and correct them infront of all their peers. So we make corrections during their lesson times.

I apologize if I gave the wrong impression the first time. Again, our"lessons" are more like "guided practice on the music."

I do appreciate the responses I've already gotten, and my compilation willbe sent out sometime next week. I'd like to get more responses, even ifyou've already replied.

---------------------------------------------COMPILATION OF RESPONSES---------------------------------------------

I firmly believe that the best thing I do for my program is to give privateor small group lessons. These lessons give a chance for one on one, whichis so difficult with a large choir. It enhances individual vocaltechniques. I have imbedded the grad standard (performance) package in twoof the quarters. I require all students to learn a solo that fits theirskill level to perform for others one quarter and the other quartereveryone is required to be part of a small group for contests. We do havelessons all year. Band also gives a 15-20 min. lesson per week. Kids arenot to come out of the same class two times.

---------------------------------------------Size: 1500Choir Students: ~180Band Students: ~180String Students: ~125Wisconsin1 'sectional' per week - 15-30 minutes; they consist of small groups --usually similar instruments/voice. Though not a 'lesson' per se, technic isemphasized in a smaller setting using repertoire of theband/choir/orchestra.

---------------------------------------------I'm afraid I can't add to your statistical sample, but remind yoursuperintendent that those Western states aren't particularly well-known formusical excellence in the small schools, while the Upper Midwest has a longtradition of musical excellence in rural communities. You aren't inColorado, thankfully enough. I came form a rural community in Oregon wherelessons weren't available. If I had them then, I would be twice themusician I am now.

---------------------------------------------Size of your school: 500

Number of choir students: 180

Number of band students: 140

The state you teach in: Minnesota

Your lesson situation: vocal: one ten-minute lesson every six days ingroups of one or twoinstrumental: one fifteen-minute lesson every six days in groups of one to four

Lessons come out of: 1. another music class, 2. a study hall, 3. a class ofthe student's choosing (in that order) and students stay in class forspeakers, tests, etc. and lessons are made up another time.---------------------------------------------I teach in Missouri. There are not any schools that I know of that giveprivate lessons during the school day. What a marvelous notion, however! Icome before and stay after school to give lessons and to work with smallensembles. My wife is the middle school choral director and it is the samestory with her. Perhaps the burn-out rate for music teachers would not beso high if we had a program such as yours?

Size of your school: 500 in HS

Number of choir students: 90

Number of band students: 30

The state you teach in: MO

---------------------------------------------I am not teaching at the HS level, but have a daughter there. (I am in St.Louis.) We are in one of the top school districts in the area/state, andthere are no private lessons during choir. But I know that many of thestudents take privately. (But as a collegiate voice teacher with no realextra time and a NATS member, I will tell you good private teachers arehard to find even here.) Having heard choirs from the greater Dallas/Ft.Worth area at conventions & seen their programs, many of the HSs there havea faculty of voice teachers! But I don't think they are the rule.

I teach music methods in our college and work with the curriculum design.After much working, I got foreign language diction added to the Music Ed.degree. After all, you folks do a lot of language pieces, right? But whatwe have not yet fit into the overloaded, 5-yr. program is a vocal pedagogyrequirement. Yet how many high school directors are teaching, or at leastcoaching, voice? Even with all my time teaching, I am constantly learning.How can someone who does it "on the side" (NOT a criticism) have time tobecome adept if they have no training? In truth, I have seen several HS agegirls with vocal problems that cannot be addressed in a choral rehearsal. Ihave also done some choral conducting and there is not time for one-on-onevocal help and choir rehearsal too! I guess what I'm asking is, who wouldbe teaching your lessons and what are their qualifications? Having a vocalperformance degree as well as vocal certification, I know I personallywould not feel qualified if I had not done undergraduate and graduatework...and twenty-five years experience---in vocal pedagogy/teaching.

---------------------------------------------Here at Santa Monica High School, we don't offer lessons to the students.BUT we have a solo competition that involves my coaching vocal studentsthat make the finals. Just because we don't offer them, doesn't mean weshouldn't.

Can you use the socioeconomic argument that removing private instructionwill lead to only those who could afford the lessons getting them?

It seems to me that the problem isn't really whether or not other peopleare doing it, it's a philosophical issue. The principal doesn't believeit's important enough. Get your parents organized and fight. You havesomething many schools don't have and you shouldn't lose.

---------------------------------------------I have taught in Nebraska, Florida and now Texas, and hate to inform youthat none of my districts had a teacher designated to teach lessons. Theonly difference is here in Texas, where pretty much everyone brings inprivate teachers at a rate of $22 an hour that the kids "pledge" money for.

Your lesson situation: We hire private voice teachers to come on campus 5days a week. I would say that we have about 50 students taking voice at thepresent time. I do not know about band or orchestra, but I know they alsohire outside instructors with the exception of percussion who is part-time.

The private lesson program is vital to our success! Every high school inthis area offers a similar program.

Your lesson situation: Absolutely none! Never has been, never will be. Thisis a university town, and a higher percentage than average do studyprivately outside school. But you can start beginning band or choir in 6thgrade and graduate from 12th grade without ever having had privateinstruction.

---------------------------------------------I teach in a performing arts magnet high school, and lessons are not taughtto students as part of the regular school day. The majority of our studentsdo study voice at our school, but it is with private teachers who come into work with the students after the regular school day at the students'expense.

How your choir lesson schedule compares with the band lesson schedule: Allacademic groups are on an A/B rotation block schedule

---------------------------------------------He's correct about the Western states. HOWEVER, the quality of publicschool music here (in Colorado) is very sad! The students cannot compete ifthey choose to go on in music UNLESS their parents pay for private lessons.Those students who do study privately cannot stand to be in the musicprograms!

Music in the Colorado schools ranks as the poorest I've seen in thecontinental United States.

---------------------------------------------When I was teaching in Oregon, the band students had lessons, but not thechoral. The band director had come from California and fought hard forthem. I believe they did away with them, or at least curtailed themseverely, when budgets didn't pass. Those lessons were taught largelyduring band period by other band teachers from within the district. Ineffect, they were team-teaching the band between the four of them.

When I was there, there were about 750-100 kids in the high school, fed bytwo Jr. Highs. The marching band was about 180, which was made up of twohigh school bands and supplemented by players from one JH Concert Choir was108, and Vocal Jazz group was 16-20.

---------------------------------------------I choose to reply to just part of your email, as a former choral teacher inMinnesota, and for one year in Arizona.

First, in Minnesota, private coaching/teaching was and IS STILL done allover. I would seek feedback from teachers in the Minneapolis/ St. Paul area.

Second, I taught one year in Arizona. Your superintendant is in error aboutthere being no private lessons in this state; the city of Mesa (suburb ofPhoenix) has a great music program, and they DO give individual lessons inthat district. As for most of the rest of the state, the music in thisstate IS horse pucky; principally because of no funding, overworked musicteachers with little extra time, and poor pay, which equals many poor tomediocre teachers. You might ask your superintendant if that is the kind ofprogram he wants.

CONTINUED IN PART 2 OF 2

Bret Nasonnason(a)rrsd.k12.wi.us

(PART 2 of 2)

---------------------------------------------I am a Southern Californian transplanted to the state of Vermont, where Ihave been for 2+ years. I never heard of lessons offered to music studentsin school, free, given by the music teacher on staff until I moved here. Of course, our Los Angeles county schools are all very large, regardlessof the school district. Here in Vermont, high schools are generally nolarger than 500 students. In most of the instrumental programs in thestate, students have lessons as you describe, at least from the verybeginning through grade 8 or 9. There is little or nothing done in thatrespect for vocal students. However, in many high schools the choralteacher does pull kids out of study halls individually or in small groupsto prepare them for All-state auditions or other similar things. It iscertainly the best way to train your kids. You might also want to find outwhere your superintendent came from in Colorado. Denver? Big city, bigschools. It is clear that in a small community, there would be littleaccess for students to have private instruction outside of school. Thereis also little opportunity for low income students in large urban schools,but too many students to create the kind of program you describe.

---------------------------------------------I've lived in California most of my life as a student and as a teacher inseveral school districts. Generally, elementary kids receive one 20-minutelesson per week in groups of 2-12 on either violin, clarinet, or trumpet,unless a kid owns another instrument. Other than that, we're just luckythat we have bands, some orchestras and a few choirs.

---------------------------------------------I have taught in Connecticut and now in New York and both schools workedband and chorus lessons into their schedules. Both schools are larger thanyours (650 and 850, 9-12). Currently I rotate pull-out lessons through fiveperiods. My lesson groups are considerably larger than yours. Band andorchestra lessons are run the same way and attendance is part of gradingcriterion, although allowances are made for days when there are tests etc.In addition to being invaluable to the success of the program, the relativeinformality of the lessons provides one of the few opportunities for manystudents to spend 'quality' time with an adult, although I wouldn't usethat as an argument. It just happens to be true and important.

---------------------------------------------I grew up going to a public high school in suburban New York which offeredgroup instrumental lessons as well as band. We had a terrific program andfantastic concerts.

My sons went through a system in rural Vermont which could not afford thegroup lessons component after the 8th grade. The band's quality is waybelow the quality of the band I used to play in. Most students don't evenbother taking their instruments home from day to day. The band music iseasy enough to learn at rehearsals and nothing else is asked of them.

There is a school about 50 miles away that solves the problem by welcomingarea professional instrumentalists to teach at the school. The instrumentalteachers charge a private lesson fee, and are allowed to use the school asa free studio space. Some scholarship money is available for those whocan't afford to pay. That school has the best band program in the state.

---------------------------------------------We had lessons of sorts when I went to JH but not HS. I went to Long BeachHS in NY (Long Island). In JH, in addition to band every day, we came tothe band room as a section once a week, and the period rotated each week,so one week we came first period, the next week we came second period, etc.That way we were only pulled out from a class once every month or so. As Isaid, they were sectional lessons.

---------------------------------------------I am in Virginia. We DO NOT get lessons for our kids at any level. Somebooster organizations provide scholarships for kids to take them. THEYWOULD BE SO VALUABLE but our system will not even think of funding it.

---------------------------------------------We just had this discussion in our vocal pedagogy class this morning, whenI told our students that Wisconsin teachers had the luxury of privatelesson teaching built into the schedule. I have taught in Ohio, Texas,Colorado, and Virginia before coming to Wisconsin. My high school programof 150 choir students (2200 in the school) in Texas did not have lessonsbuilt into the teaching load. Those that could afford to study privately (afew) did so with a local voice teacher. I spent a considerable amount oftime teaching vocal technique in the rehearsal. Most of us in smaller,rural districts lamented the fact that the larger, suburban schools DIDoffer private lessons, giving them a definite advantage in state-widecompetition. My experiences in VA, CO, and OH were that no schools offeredprivate lessons.

---------------------------------------------Size of your school: about 1400

Number of choir students: 125

Number of band students: about 120

The state you teach in: New York

Your lesson situation: group lessons, one every 7 school days, one periodlong (43 minutes)

How your choir lesson schedule compares with the band lesson schedule: alsomuch the same, but he has two period to rotate through; I have only one

It's too bad that your superintendent has such a parochial view of theright thing to do - why does he have to compare you to other states andwhat they do or don't do? Here in NY, we have Regents exams - does thatmake us better than you? Anyway, I have had choral lessons here since about5 or 6 years ago, and they are great! We have a piano lab (16 YamahaClavinovas) and I teach basic piano skills (enough to "plunk out yourpart") and we work on solfege/sight-reading skills, I have barbershopgroups and women's choirs... we are having a great time! I rotate lessonsthrough three different periods of the day (I use my lunch and prep periods- so do band and orchestra) and each lesson group meets every 7 days (Ihave them named by the solfege syllables, do, re...) and the "Ti" lesson ina make-up lessons, in case you've missed your regular one.

---------------------------------------------Although we're a much bigger school (1850 students), lessons have been anissue bounced around here a number of times.

130 choir students80 band/60 orchestraWisconsin

We are on a 4 block schedule, and that makes lessons almost impossible, asmost kids do not have study hall. We finally got three 30-minute lessonsper 9 week term on a rotating pull-out basis. Obviously we have tocooperate with tests, labs, and some classes that kids simply do not wantto be taken from. It varies as to whether it's individual or group -sometimes it's even a sectional lesson.

Theoretically, instrumental and vocal lesson times are the same. However,when you consider that I (vocal) meet 2 or 3 ninety minute classes a day,while the instrumental people meet one, it's obvious I can't give lessonsas they do. I am proposing high school credit for private lessons (with anapproved instructor) to encourage more kids to study privately.

---------------------------------------------I taught in Iowa for seven years before moving to California in 1976, whereI've taught at Irvine High School ever since. We are a large school by yourstandards--2800 two years ago, now 2000 since our district has opened a newhigh school.

I was dismayed when I moved here that I was expected to teach five classesa day (in a six-period day). The idea of teaching lessons to individualsand small groups (as I had done in Iowa) was--and still is--unheard of inCalifornia. Many of my students study privately and I arrange for one ormore private teachers to use our practice facilities each semester to teachprivate lessons for the benefit of kids who do not drive. We are now on ablock schedule (four 90-minute periods each day, alternating A/B days), andI teach three blocks each day: Two women's choirs, a men's choir, a largemixed choir, a chamber choir, and AP Music Theory. No time for lessons.

---------------------------------------------I teach in California, in a very large district in which the music programsare not well-supported by the school board or administration. Most of our30+ middle schools have no choral or general music programs, for example,and many have no instrumental programs. This is very different from where Iwas raised, which, as in your case, was the Midwest (Iowa, to be specific).

Neither I nor the band director at our HS of approx. 2500 students teachlessons to our kids. I teach five 52-minute classes a day, and simplyhaven't found the time to work in regular lessons with groups of kids, letalone individuals. I don't know whether any of my predecessors taughtlessons, but I do know that ever since our school was built in the late50's, the choir director typically had a full load of 4-6 choirs. So timefor lessons was probably squeezed in when- and wherever possible, but Isuspect it was never built into the job description. I sure wish it were,especially since my singers are true beginners (having had no MS training),and because in our particular school none of them really have the financialmeans to pursue private training.

For what it's worth, by the way, here's my snapshot impression of thegeneral state of music education in California compared to that of theMidwest: POOR. I also recently lived in Arizona, and I would say the samefor that state. Of course there are many fine programs in both Arizona andCalifornia, but in general I've found that kids in the Midwest are much,much farther ahead of their counterparts from these two Western states. Asrecently as three years ago I taught at a summer music camp in the Midwestbetween my first and second years of grad school in Arizona. It struck meduring the first day of camp auditions that the Jr. high campers were MUCHmore competent readers and singers than most of the college kids who camein to audition for the campus-wide mixed choir I conducted during the year.So if your administrators would like to make poorly-prepared music studentstheir goal, then by all means I recommend that they make California andArizona schools their models.

---------------------------------------------Size of your school: Westridge School

Number of choir students: 250

Number of band students: Orchestra, not band: 140

The state you teach in: CA

Your lesson situation: Sectionals as needed, small groups or one-one,depending on the student: each of the three faculty typically spend 45-90minutes each week in these small sessions.

Any other information you deem pertinent would also be appreciated: We area private school, grades 4 - 12, girls only; music is required in grades 4- 7, and for one year in high school. About 40% of our high school areenrolled as a continuing students (having already satisfied therequirement).

Your lesson situation: Each choir member receives one 15 minute lesson perweek, because of numbers, there are some that are in groups of two - mostare individual. We are on 12 week trimester grading periods - the choirmembers must be at 10 of the 12 lessons. Their lessons are part of theiractual choir grade. (Lessons = 1/3 of their grade and choir rehearsal is2/3 of their grade.

How your choir lesson schedule compares with the band lesson schedule: Theband and choir alike - all students receive a lesson per week.

Because of teaching in Minnesota and the States Grad Standards, many of mystudents complete the standard with their lessons as well as in choir.

---------------------------------------------Size of your school: 890 students

Number of choir students: 150

Number of band students: 80

The state you teach in: Michigan

We are on what is called "Modified Eight Block." Students meet classesfor 85 minutes on M/W and T/Th., then they meet all eight classes on Fridayfor 40 minutes each class. On T/Th we have what is referred to asSeminar. We have sectionals during this time. Teachers must releasestudents to us during this time. At present, we have three choirs, oneband, and one orchestra. We also offer AP Music Theory. All performinggroups meet sectionals. This is 9:30 to 10:55 on T/Th. We divide the timein half and thus we have four different sectional times per week. Friday'sseminar is closed, which means they stay in homeroom to work on schoolimprovement. In the rest of the school, students are allowed to go toother teachers to get extra help or to make up tests.

---------------------------------------------NOTE: THE FOLLOWING RESPONSE MOST CLOSELY REFLECTS MY OWN SITUATION ANDREASONING.

We also have these "guided practices" in our small high school (Iowa). Thestudents must come to a weekly lesson as a requirement for the course.Since I was not allowed enough time to do this in my previous two teachingpositions, I feel extremely fortunate. I know there are many who regardthis as a luxury. Having experienced directing choirs where the studentsare not receiving regular guided practice, I can say that the opportunityfor weekly lessons is extremely high on my priority list of things I wantin a music education position. I don't know exactly what your situation is,but we are in a small rural community where there are not enough piano andvoice teachers to go around, so most of my students do not have theopportunity to take private music lessons outside of school, even if theywanted to and could afford them. We also do not currently have a schedulethat allows for general music or music appreciation classes for thosestudents who want to participate but do not have any musical background.The music education they are getting has to come from their performanceensembles.

I treat these lessons as a type of "homework." Ideally all of my studentswould be taking their choir folders home each night to practice on theirown, but the reality is most of them lack the music and/or piano skills torehearse on their own. I have students who can barely match pitch, muchless read music well enough to sing a song a cappella, or accompanythemselves. I have told them that in other classes they have writtenhomework; in mine it is aural. They are given a grade for each lesson andat the end of each semester their progress is assessed by means of an auralexam. Our program has been fairly successful, and I attribute a largepercentage of that success to the fact that I can meet with each of mystudents outside of the larger ensemble. This probably isn't much help, butI just wanted you to know that I understand your situation, and applaud youin your desire to continue this practice.

---------------------------------------------Here is a thought or two:

Select section leaders that would be able to lead the mini-lessons instead.

-or-

Instead of having mini-lessons, make tapes with the students individualvoice parts on them. This way they can get individual practice on their owntime, it also makes them more accountable - it's almost likehomework.(imagine that - kids getting homework in school) The improvementswill be dramatic. There is a machine by Telex that will record 4 tapes atonce at blinding speed. It costs a bit but it is very helpful.

Sounds like your super has got some reality issues. I'd sure like to speakwith him one on one, (he's never heard of kids getting lessons - I can'tbelieve the intelligence level)

---------------------------------------------Size of your school: 300

Number of choir students: 25-30

Number of band students: 60-90

The state you teach in: Iowa

Your lesson situation: 1 or 2 per week, studying ensemble material

How your choir lesson schedule compares with the band lesson schedule: Same

I do not teach at the high school I described (I teach at a college), butmy son went through the music program there. I, too, came from a statewhere lessons were NOT part of the school offering and was very surprisedto see them in our Iowa school systems. However, I have learned that,especially in the smaller school systems, the ensembles would never makemuch progress if there wasn't an opportunity for lessons.

---------------------------------------------We offer the kind of lessons you describe at Bridgewater-Raritan HighSchool in New Jersey, and that is a common phenomenon in the state. Thereare four of us in the department, one choral (myself), two band, oneorchestra director. We require all of our ensemble students to take thesegroup lessons (they cannot, at least, earn an A without periodic attendance-- they are pulled from other classes.) I cannot envisage running asuccessful high school ensemble without the lessons. They are a means ofgetting to the shy students who are afraid to try things in full rehearsaluntil they have some individual reassurance; they are a means of rehearsingdifficult passages one voice section at a time; they are a means of givingindividual attention to sight reading, rhythm reading, voice production,etc., none of which can be effectively taught to all students in a largeensemble rehearsal.

---------------------------------------------

Bret Nasonnason(a)rrsd.k12.wi.us

D.Buchman on May 23, 2004 10:00pm

In New York State we are accountable for mastery of skills and
objective criteria to determine a numerical grade for HS chorus. In the past, attendance, participation and
attending performances were used to determine a grade calculated in a students GPA.
How are other schools held accountable for a numerical grade in HS Chorus?
Reflection in written form is required to measure learning in lessons.
Are we returning to pass/fail criteria?

Applauded by an audience of 0

jcar@yahoo.com on July 29, 2005 10:00pm

A numerical grade for chorus has to be supported by some objective criteria, I agree. Otherwise, we are returning to Pass/Fail as many other states have now.