Sun Fin wrote:Rafe appears to place him higher than both Sun Ce and Jian as a commander, whilst I think this is going to far I would agree that he is one of the greatest commanders of the era.

Someone sounds like they has taken offense because Gongjin > Bofu & Wentai. You know it's true.

Dong Zhou wrote:I'm not sure his abilities as a commander are diminished, he just becomes a lot smarter with a jealousy issue. Why do you consider his command abilities diminished?

I concur. Just look at how they portrayed him in Three Kingdoms 2010 for starters, where they try to blend SGYY with aspects of SGZ and the 'gray area'. ZGL more or less says, 'Hey, Gongjin is as good as me (even though I am now a deity), he just has jealousy issues and doesn't know how to be humble.'

Funny thing is, that is completely the opposite of his recorded historical character.

Striga wrote: Then that means if Zhou Yu lived, Wu may have stood a chance in defeating Wei in one of their offensives.

Strangely, despite his acknowledged skill I think the biggest plus to his survival would be Wu not lending Liu Bei any parts of Jing. It was losing the roads to Yi and northern Jing that I think really delt a crippling blow to their chances. Zhou Yu was a fine general, but Sun Quan still had plenty of others.

Zhuanyong wrote:Funny thing is, that is completely the opposite of his recorded historical character.

Considering what happened to Han Xuan (had a good reputation in history), Lu Bu (didn't beat his men, beat Cao Cao several times on his own skill), Yuan Shao (said to be generous and was able to remain calm during a crisis) and so many others, that's pretty standard for the popular image of three kingdoms figures. Zhou Yu got off better than all the above in that he was still portrayed as a genius, while Han Xuan was turned into a cartoon supervillain, Lu Bu into a bullying moron, and Yuan Shao turns into an evil Bertie Wooster.

Sun Fin wrote:Chi Bi is his first independant command in the novel as he was always kept by Ce's side in the novel (as his main strategist to be sure but diminishes from his skill as a commander). Also ChiBi is seen purely as a strategist's victory, the fire attack etc and the fact that there was a battle after the fire attack is over looked constantly. Pretty much all the credit for the battle goes to Huang Gai and ZGL. /Rant over

In fairness, I think the novel gives him more of a role in the conquest then he gets in the SGZ. I would agree that he loses a bit of credit in the novel and that it becomes less about his naval command abilities but more about a uber strategist 3way that ends with ZGL's victory. Yet Zhou Yu in the novel battle I would argue gets more credit then Huang Gai and comes up with lots of schemes, taking out Cai Mao and co or the Huang Gai beating idea.

“You, are a rebellious son who abandoned his father. You are a cruel brigand who murdered his lord. How can Heaven and Earth put up with you for long? And unless you die soon, how can you face the sight of men?”

Zhuge Liang did very little at Chi Bi. He predicted the weather. Zhou Yu led his troops to victory and Huang Gai gave him some pretty damn good ideas. In the Novel both Chi Bi and after are Zhuge Liang's victory in a way. Zhou Yu did capture Nanjun, whereas the novel has him win, but lose it Zhuge Liang.

I've a brave warrior in my army. Shen Ai is his name, and he can slay this Hua Xiong.

Wei has no more famous commanders, Shen Ai takes lead of the vanguard!