August Gallery // Bugs

Post by Steinie // Sep 11, 2008, 3:54pm

Wizard's (Stephen May) Dragon entry is empty in the Gallery for August.

Post by Changa // Sep 12, 2008, 6:06am

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Where is August gallery? I can see June/July only.

Post by Nez // Sep 12, 2008, 6:08am

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Me too - sometimes it seems that we don't get to see updates to the Caligari site in Europe as quickly as they do in the states - something to do with when European servers update or something, a similar problem arose when 7.6 was announced, it was a couple of days before we saw the new pages in the UK...

Anyonne from the US like to share a few screenshots of the Gallery page so we can see the outcome? :D

Post by Steinie // Sep 12, 2008, 6:44am

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Here are the August stills...no winners...

There is nothing about VE at all.

No winners in Animation too.

I just joined John Nagy art classes...:rolleyes:

http://hubpages.com/hub/anyone_can_draw

Post by TomG // Sep 12, 2008, 6:56am

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VE is there, our nav bar didn't get updated by mistake. You can see them at:

Not sure about those in Europe not seeing the updates, getting that investigated now!

Thanks!

Tom

Post by splinters // Sep 12, 2008, 7:03am

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Neither link works for me Tom...:o

Thanks for the images Steinie...:D

Post by TomG // Sep 12, 2008, 7:18am

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Yes, that will be the European issue - apparently the servers over there do not have the latest updates, so those links won't work :(

That's the one that is under investigation just now, more news as soon as I have it, and our apologies in the meantime.

Thanks,

Tom

Post by theuns // Sep 12, 2008, 7:27am

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i can't see the august gallery either :(

remind me again why there are no winners? this is happening a frequintly it seems that no winner is choosen...

Post by TomG // Sep 12, 2008, 7:52am

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It's the judges' decision based on number of entries and quality of entries (the latter being in the judges' opinion of course so that is subjective, like any art contest).

HTH!

Tom

Post by theuns // Sep 12, 2008, 8:14am

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I understand that but it just seemed that there were quite a few good entries there so its a bit hard to believe that the best one could not be chosen [and I'm not talking about my own entries, previous instances included]...

anyway, i get the idea this is an old issue so no use going through it all again... great work for all those who entered, keep up the good work and remember to have fun, I sure did with the August challenges we had ;)

Post by Steinie // Sep 12, 2008, 8:37am

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March 20th 2004 A Forum user talking about John Logan's work.

" If you don't win this month's still image contest, then I will say Caligari does not know the meaning of real talent. "

Reponse by another Forum user:

"The winners of the monthly contest has nothing to do with modeling.

it's not who can model the best contest.

what looks real wins.so a real looking sphere will win instead of a toon looken plane.no matter how great it's modeled if it's textured and lighting looks toonish not a chance to win.

John Logan's Response:

"ROFL,

you guys are to kind!

I don't plan on putting this into Caligari's contest. in almost 10 years I've never enter one don't have plans to start.

Raveen,

I officially now feel the same way after getting in the Gallery 18 times with no wins. History repeats itself.

Post by Weevil // Sep 12, 2008, 8:52am

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So there aren't any winners...But..YAY...I'm in there...I'm happy...minus the lack of plunder

Post by TomG // Sep 12, 2008, 9:02am

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Hi all,

The fixes are in place for the page problems, which should include the pages being visible outside of the US. If anyone in Europe or other non-US locations still see the old gallery, please email me and let me know.

Thanks!

Tom

Post by theuns // Sep 12, 2008, 9:24am

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Total Posts: 519

I see what you mean Steinie...

As stated on the 'About the image contest" page :

"... In the event that there are not enough quality submissions to each month's Contest, Caligari reserves the right to not choose a winner..."

If it is all about realism, why doesn't it say "Realism competition" on the entry screen? And I refuse to belief that none of the 9 honorables [and who knows how many others that was entered] are not "quality submissions" or that 9 is not enough... this does somewhat reduce my motivation for even trying to submit again because, why bother?

March 20th 2004 A Forum user talking about John Logan's work.

" If you don't win this month's still image contest, then I will say Caligari does not know the meaning of real talent. "

Reponse by another Forum user:

"The winners of the monthly contest has nothing to do with modeling.

it's not who can model the best contest.

what looks real wins.so a real looking sphere will win instead of a toon looken plane.no matter how great it's modeled if it's textured and lighting looks toonish not a chance to win.

John Logan's Response:

"ROFL,

you guys are to kind!

I don't plan on putting this into Caligari's contest. in almost 10 years I've never enter one don't have plans to start.

Raveen,

I officially now feel the same way after getting in the Gallery 18 times with no wins. History repeats itself.

Post by splinters // Sep 12, 2008, 9:27am

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Total Posts: 4148

Pages are showing in the UK now Tom. Regarding prizes, I would think that picking the best of the bunch as a winner would encourage more entries. This seems to put the message out that you need to produce top notch stuff to win anything, while you ask for entries of any quality.

Just my perception but I would think having a winner would be encouragement for future competitions.

Surely it is not like Microsoft cannot afford a prize...;)

Post by Weevil // Sep 12, 2008, 9:29am

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Which one was yours Thenus? Wait, never mind...

Yeah, if it's all about realism then it sort of dumbs down the competition. A lot of entries I see are very creative but don't get the credit they deserve by them being not quite so well rendered...

I'll admit that I went fot he realistic approach in mine and it paid off but then, the more creative ones are sitting right next to it...

If your chances of winning are even slimmer if there's tough competition then...eh...

EDIT: Damn, you got in there before me Splinters and one that note, agree 100% Microsoft could have brought out autodesk if they wanted to...

Post by theuns // Sep 12, 2008, 9:46am

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Exactly... my feeling would be that there should ALWAYS be a winner of those entries submitted... and if they want realism or fiction seperate, make categories fir 'fiction' and 'realism' ...

I wonder how many "master pieces" has never been entered because of the peculiar judging methods for the competition?

Post by splinters // Sep 12, 2008, 9:48am

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Total Posts: 4148

As I see it: to a new visitor, no prize effectively means no image was good enough to win...and these are the images picked to represent your flagship software. If I did not know the program , I might just leave at that point...dismayed at the quality especially if I just came from CGI society or another 'high quality image' site

Why?, well perhaps that is the best quality possible with the program, perhaps users are not enthusiastic enough to produce 'prize-winning' images, the judges pretty much say so in those results. I leave, perhaps without even trying the free software....a shame.

Of course that is just hypothetical but who knows.

I would also have a promotional gallery on the site where you show the best of your tS images, as I think the monthly gallery has a negative vibe about it and the reponses here so far seem to echo that. I know you archive but I mean a single product gallery to show off the best of tS now...not from 3 or 4 years ago.

Or do it like lightworks where you have the best images in categories: automotive, industrial, product, illustration, VE etc. Especially as you are no longer selling ipaks, depaks etc.

Again, just my opinion; you know your business best but I don't feel this monthly gallery is having the positive effect you might want...:o

Post by Weevil // Sep 12, 2008, 9:52am

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Which makes me miss 'the best of the forums'. Bring it back Caligari!

Post by theuns // Sep 12, 2008, 9:54am

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Fair enough splinters, but if you look at the 9 honorable mentions in the August competition, do you want to tell me that none of them are good enough to represent the Caligari flagship???

On the other side, if the best entry is not that good, don't you think that will let people pause and think "Hmmm, I can do better than that, let me make and image and enter the next competition, I'll be sure to win."

How about that for a motivator?

As I see it: to a new visitor, no prize effectively means no image was good ennough to win. Ergo, these are the images picked to represent your flagship software and if I did not know the program , I might just leave at that point.

Why?, well perhaps that is the best quality possible with the program, perhaps users are not enthusiastic enough to produce 'prize-winning' images, the judges pretty much say so in those results. I leave, perhaps without even trying the free software....a shame.

Of course that is just hypothetical but who knows.

I would also have a promotional gallery on the site where you show the best of your tS images, as I think the monthly gallery has a negative vibe about it and the reponses here so far seem to echo that. I know you archive but I mean a single product gallery to show off the best of tS now...not from 3 or 4 years ago.

Or do it like lightworks where you have the best images in categories: automotive, industrial, product, illustration, VE etc. Especially as you are no longer selling ipaks, depaks etc.

Again, just my opinion; you know your business best but I don't feel this monthly gallery is having the positive effect you might want...:o

Post by Weevil // Sep 12, 2008, 10:00am

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That is true, maybe you could call for a re-judge, at least if I/you/anyone miffed by it who would like the re-judge doesn't win, at least it would let us know exactly where we stack...to me it just looks everybody look mediocore

Post by splinters // Sep 12, 2008, 10:02am

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Depends on how you look at it. And for the record, I am not saying these are not good enough to win; the judges are..:rolleyes:

But if I am being honest, No, I don't think they are good enough to 'represent' the product.

By represent I mean an image that would be chosen over others in the galleries to go on a poster, leaflet or box art to promote the program if it were still a commercial product. Perhaps in a box-out or insert but a main image??

Everyone is entitled to an opinion, I just looked over the images again and I would stand by that statement. I am not saying I could do better, but I know what catches my eye on box art and gets my hand in my pocket. I don't see why that mentality should change just because you don't have to pay for it. Wizard's dragon comes close but the composition is such that it would take up a lot of space on a poster etc. unless you cropped it in which case it would lose it's integrity.

There are (were) images in the promo material for tS5 and tS6 which still make my jaw drop and make me want to improve my 3D skills.

Flame away by all means but (after noting the errors on the page) this topic was then about the contest and the awarding of a prize, I don't want to say anything more about the quality of the images or my opinion of them.

Post by theuns // Sep 12, 2008, 10:12am

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Alright, fair enough, if you think none was good enough thats fine... but where in the competition does it say that the images should be good enough to be used as promotional material for the product?

As far as I can see, it is a user competitions to see who makes the best image, not to make a mater piece that caligari can put on the box of their next release...

And again, if that is the aim of the competition, then let it say so on the entry screen adn don't let user waste their time or get their hopes dashed time and time again for not winning...

Look, I know there has been a lot of winners, which is great, even though I would not have agreed with some of them as being "the best image", but I really think that the method of judging or requirements should be relooked at to make it more transperant and logical so that participants can understand what is required and produce images that actually stand a chance of winning...

Doesn't that make sense?

Ps. I've always wondered about this but never really said anything about until I got more envolved in the forums and challenges this year and more recently last month. But it seems like this is something that is bothering a few other users as well...

And especially now with the influx of new users with the free 7.6... should this not enjoy a little more attension and clarification?

my 2 c...

Post by Weevil // Sep 12, 2008, 10:12am

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Aren't we havnig a lovely conversation here

Of course none of them are good enough to represent the product, Caligari have got heir own in-team for that anyway, all sorts of things get complicated if things like that started happening.

@Thenus, if the winner's entry wasn't that good then I suspect the visitor would go 'the program's rubbish isn't it'. One of Caligari's main selling points now is that it's free, it isn't trying to get in the same league as Maya or 3DS (and if they ARE then they're deluded imo) and are by no means the best but they can produce good stuff...and if the visitor see's ok stuff for 'free' that's the selling point and that's what our images are used for, really it's up to us to use our images to promote Truespace how we see the program...

I'm not saying by any stretch that given the chance we SHOULDN'T try to strive for something that can bludgeon Maya or 3DS to the ground or not try and produce something that could go on the box...

I can see that some people are slightly more than a litte miffed that everyone's put together and that the 'prize' doesn't exist, to be honest I think it's because the judjes were spending more time with the google earth and htat hey panned over the image contest quickly.

Were there prizes given in the other categories?

EDIT: I think Thenus also means the images that go places like here...
http://www.caligari.com/products/trueSpace/ts75/Brochure/solutions_illustration.asp
I've seen madmouse's and Splinter's work running around in places...I think that's what he means

EDIT 2: Damn! You got in before me AGAIN! i should really type faster

Post by splinters // Sep 12, 2008, 10:18am

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Alright, fair enough, if you think none was good enough thats fine... but where in the competition does it say that the images should be good enough to be used as promotional material for the product?

It doesn't Theuns; you asked if I felt they were good enough to represent Caligari. I answered and explained my perception of 'represent'. That is all.

I really don't want to get into the quality issue but you asked and I politely answered...honestly. Would you rather I lied?

Back to the issue of prizes. I have won a few times and technically, they were not as good as some of this month's images. Perhaps it was the lighting or composition...who knows? I certainly don't.

The problem is exasperated by the wait for this month's gallery which means that, for those who entered, the wait was a bit of an anti-climax without a prize.

I really don't want to change the topic of this thread beyond the question of prizes so I will say no more about the images themselves.

Post by theuns // Sep 12, 2008, 10:24am

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Very lovely indeed ;)

I agree, and I'm sure everybody else that enters does too, that the entrants try to make the best image they can with the time they have... just trying to show other perspectives and agles :)

I also think that there are some great artists here that can produce great stuff comparable to the top products out there and not every month has good entries, granted.

Unlike splinters though [no offence, just a difference in opinion], I do think there were some great entries, like steven d, tim and roberts entries...

I'm also starting to lean towards that theory Weevil, that perhaps the judges didn't have or spend serious time on the judging for whatever reason and just pulled the easy 'honorables' option... just conjecture and opinion but there it is ;)

And even if there wasn't any prizes, there should be winners

Post by theuns // Sep 12, 2008, 10:28am

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No problem splinters, I understand and I appreciate your honesty, we just don't agree on that point, which is fine, we don't have to agree on everything do we :)

It doesn't Theuns; you asked if I felt they were good enough to represent Caligari. I answered and explained my perception of 'represent'. That is all.

I really don't want to get into the quality issue but you asked and I politely answered...honestly. Would you rather I lied?

Back to the issue of prizes. I have won a few times and technically, they were not as good as some of this month's images. Perhaps it was the lighting or composition...who knows? I certainly don't.

The problem is exasperated by the wait for this month's gallery which means that, for those who entered, the wait was a bit of an anti-climax without a prize.

I really don't want to change the topic of this thread beyond the question of prizes so I will say no more about the images themselves.

Post by Weevil // Sep 12, 2008, 10:28am

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Total Posts: 534

Especially ME! I'm in the UK! It's my first entry! And the wait was KILLER!

Didn't we have an update problem like this last month, or was that a major crash?

Now...Really...As much as I would like to see a clear winner, I think we may just have to wait until next month...and if it happens again...then I suggest a formal complaint, maybe ask Tom to carry it or something...But as it stands, I don't think there's anything we could do...

I'm taking a more relaxed approach simply because I didn't enter to win the prizes simply because I'd have no use for them...I don't use 7.6 so V-ray's out, I'm not interested in XNA and to me...Streets and trips is just a load of crap.

I would SERIOUSLY enter if they bring back the old prizes (one free product and runner up gets discount wasn't it?)

But, if your entries are constantly being shown then THAT'S your selling point should you include it in your CV, portfolio or whatever (I know I will, got in first time) and if you're truly not happy and the problem such as this persists then you may be better off finding a different competition 'off board' to enter...

Edit, and thanks for the compliment about my entry btw Thenus!

Post by splinters // Sep 12, 2008, 10:32am

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Very lovely indeed ;)

Unlike splinters though [no offence, just a difference in opinion], I do think there were some great entries, like steven d, tim and roberts entries...

None taken Theuns. This is, as it should be, a healthy and honest discussion. I already said I like Wizard's entry but I discussed it in the context of a 'product advert' or similar. As a stand alone image it is one of my favourite this month...:D

Post by theuns // Sep 12, 2008, 10:33am

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No problem splinters, I understand and I appreciate your honesty, we just don't agree on that point, which is fine, we don't have to agree on everything do we :)

It doesn't Theuns; you asked if I felt they were good enough to represent Caligari. I answered and explained my perception of 'represent'. That is all.

I really don't want to get into the quality issue but you asked and I politely answered...honestly. Would you rather I lied?

Back to the issue of prizes. I have won a few times and technically, they were not as good as some of this month's images. Perhaps it was the lighting or composition...who knows? I certainly don't.

The problem is exasperated by the wait for this month's gallery which means that, for those who entered, the wait was a bit of an anti-climax without a prize.

I really don't want to change the topic of this thread beyond the question of prizes so I will say no more about the images themselves.