Hi, I love listening to trance, electronica, and new age music, and I decided that I want to try out producing it myself because often when I listen to tracks, I like some aspects but feel like I could do it even better. Unfortunately I really have just about zero experience in the field of electronic music, except I have some experience with playing piano and I have basic note-reading skills. I asked a couple of friends who play guitar and they said all I need is a keyboard and music software which acts like a mixer.

I looked on Amazon but there are several different types of instruments, and I have no idea which one to get. Fortunately they are all under $5,000 and so is the software, so it looks to be comfortably within my budget. However I could use some advice as to which instrument is highest quality and best for my purposes. I also looked on Guitar Center's website and they also have several keyboards and softwares to choose from, so I could use some help in narrowing my choices down. I am unfamiliar with a lot of the terminology used in the product descriptions as well. Any help or advice would be appreciated.

I would recommend a Korg MicroKorg keyboard as a place for you to start. It has numerous presets which would fit the styles you mentioned, is inexpensive (comparitively), and has knobs to tweak and play with in order to come up with your own sounds.

You might find a visit to a local music store valuable. Also, if you narrow down you search to some particular models, people here can give you feedback. You can get quite a lot of capability using free software too. Check out our OSX and Windows forums under instruments and equipment.

It's a whole big, wide, world of electronic music out there....but my advice to you is start with the basics. I read a book called "Desktop Musician" back in '96, back before softsynths existed and it opened my eyes about how all this stuff works. Before you even get a DAW and a softsynth buy yourself a good synthesizer and learn how it works and makes sound inside and out as I believe it's essential to use a hardware synth first. Check out this site:
http://www.vintagesynth.com/_________________Apple Mac Pro 2.66 GHz. Intel Xeon Quad core
13 GB
10.7.5 Digi 002R
Novation SL49/Remote Zero
Automap 4
Mopho Desktop, Nord Lead 2, Roland System 1, Novation Nova, Nord Micromoular, Korg Radias, Roland D-50, M-audio Venom, Alesis QS6, Yamaha A3000 sampler, Novation SL MK2 and Remote Zero controllers, Roland D2, Emu Proteus 1, Arturia Beatstep and SparkLE

"We are the music makers and we are the dreamers of dreams"

Dymaxion Vehicle Music at www.dymaxionvehicle.com/Last edited by Gothboy on Mon Jul 16, 2007 8:16 am; edited 1 time in total

Could start with audacity (sound recording / simple manipulations), it's free, and using it some of the concepts and possible additional needs will become clearer. For me books don't work too well, I always need something for my hands to do. I like touching paintings as well, for "seeing" how it was done _________________Jan

Okay, I found some specific keyboards that look interesting. I basically just looked for the most expensive ones, which, in the absence of other knowledge, is usually a good indicator of quality. I don't want to waste time with an inferior model if I can avoid it.

Also there are several on this page and two more on this page that look interesting. I noticed that there were a few keyboards called "stage" keyboards so I avoided those, as I'm primrily interested with producing and not performing (yet). Any advice on these models would be very much appreciated, thanks again.

All are great synths in their own right....most of what you've got there in the list are romplers or sample based synthesizers. If you want sounds that are good to go right off the bat these might suit.....but if you're interested in tweaking knobs and making your own sounds you might want to consider a virtual analog....like a Nord Lead 2 by clavia, which is one that I have, though my first synth was an Alesis QS6 which is a rompler....still have it and use it. Mosc would probably recommend a Nord G2 modular.....but those are a little involved. It all depends on the sounds you're looking for._________________Apple Mac Pro 2.66 GHz. Intel Xeon Quad core
13 GB
10.7.5 Digi 002R
Novation SL49/Remote Zero
Automap 4
Mopho Desktop, Nord Lead 2, Roland System 1, Novation Nova, Nord Micromoular, Korg Radias, Roland D-50, M-audio Venom, Alesis QS6, Yamaha A3000 sampler, Novation SL MK2 and Remote Zero controllers, Roland D2, Emu Proteus 1, Arturia Beatstep and SparkLE

If you want a 'do it all' machine check KORG OASYS or M3 (basically you can create entire arrangements using just one synthesizer. They are called workstations).

But if you want something that will 'let you fly' then I would surely look into VA synths + external sequencer (Cubase Studio 4). (VA - Virtual Analog synthesizers in most cases come without a sequencer (some do have them but they are rather primitive anyway) so you need a external sequencing software. You might also consider either hard or soft sampler as VA's usually can play around 4 sounds at the same time so it's pretty hard to make any complex tune that way.

Nord Lead 2X has a very good value now and it's a real joy to play with.
Access Virus... Once you get your hands on this one you're infected... usually for life. Simply Superb.

Good entry VA Synth with a real nice features is the KORG RADIAS. It's very easy to program and that's important when you are learning the world of VA's

the G2 is also very good.

Best thing to do is read as much as you can and try those synths by yourself in some store.

And trust me don't jump on the first synth you listen to.
Play with it, go home, com back next day, play with it and go home. Come back after few days and you will easily see which one you want the most the moment you start playing with it._________________My Music Page

Is there some place on the internet with a good glossary of these terms, or an explanation, for stuff like sequencer, virtual analog, sampler. etc? A steep-by-step or how-to guide? Maybe this would help my decisionmaking process.

Also I'm not sure how the software and the synthesizer work together. Do I physically play something on the keyboard, and turn knobs with the software to modify the sound? Or what does the synthesizer do that the software doesn't?

Is there some place on the internet with a good glossary of these terms, or an explanation, for stuff like sequencer, virtual analog, sampler. etc? A steep-by-step or how-to guide? Maybe this would help my decisionmaking process.

Also I'm not sure how the software and the synthesizer work together. Do I physically play something on the keyboard, and turn knobs with the software to modify the sound? Or what does the synthesizer do that the software doesn't?

Sequencer
In the field of electronic music, a sequencer was traditionally a device or piece of software that allows the user to record, play back and edit musical patterns. This usually did not include the ability to record audio, only the control information for synthesizers to recreate the composition. As most sequencers now feature audio editing and processing capabilities, the line has been blurred with digital audio workstations such that the terms are often used interchangeably. Though the term 'sequencer' is today used primarily for software, some hardware synthesizers and almost all music workstations include a built-in MIDI sequencer, while drum machines generally have a step sequencer built in. There are still also standalone hardware MIDI sequencers, though the market demand for those has diminished greatly in the last ten years.

Many sequencers have features for limited music notation, and most are able to show music in a piano roll notation. (For software designed specifically for music notation, see scorewriter.)[/b]

Sampler
A sampler is an electronic music instrument closely related to a synthesizer. Instead of generating sounds from scratch, however, a sampler starts with multiple recordings (or “samples”) of different sounds, and then plays each back based on how the instrument is configured. Because these samples are usually stored in RAM, the information can be quickly accessed.

Unlike traditional digital audio playback, each sample is associated with a set of synthesis parameters, and can thus be modified in many different ways.

Most samplers have polyphonic capabilities: they are able to play more than one note at the same time. Many are also multitimbral: they can play back different sounds at the same time.

Virtual Analog
Analog Modeling Synthesizer, also referred to as Virtual Analog or VA is a synthesizer that emulates the sounds of traditional analog synthesizers using digital signal processing components. There is a vague consensus that while VAs can be useful and expressive instruments in their own right, they seldom achieve the vibrant sound of true modular analog synthesizers. On the other hand, they exceed many analog instruments in reliability and polyphony, and offer patch storage capabilities not found on all analog instruments, including MIDI support.

Polyphony
In music, polyphony is a texture consisting of two or more independent melodic voices, as opposed to music with just one voice (monophony)

Midi
MIDI (Musical Instrument Digital Interface) is an industry-standard electronic communications protocol that enables electronic musical instruments, computers and other equipment to communicate, control and synchronize with each other in real time.

Note names and MIDI note numbers.MIDI does not transmit an audio signal or media — it simply transmits digital data "event messages" such as the pitch and intensity of musical notes to play, control signals for parameters such as volume, vibrato and panning, cues and clock signals to set the tempo. As an electronic protocol, it is notable for its success, both in its widespread adoption throughout the industry, and in remaining essentially unchanged in the face of technological developments since its introduction in 1983.

Music Workstation
A music workstation is piece of electronic musical equipment providing the facilities of:

a sound module,
a music sequencer and
(usually) a musical keyboard.
It enables a musician to compose electronic music using just one piece of equipment.

The sound module is generally a sample-playback synthesizer. The concept of a sequencer combined with a synthesizer is not entirely new - the Sequential Circuits Six-Trak provided this already in a crude form. All parts of it were purely based on subtractive synthesis; so no preset drum kits, a thing every sample-playback synthesizer since the Roland D-50 featured.

However, the incarnation of the idea reached its maturity, and a boom in sales (250,000 sold), with the Korg M1. Besides just a sequencer, it also provided a large enough display, a vast array of sounds (with the woody Piano sound and the "Universe" patch being the most famous), and built-in effects. Floppy disk drives were included on later machines, making it easy to store the sequencing data (either as proprietary or Standard MIDI File format).

Nowadays, workstations have evolved to the point that they can either include a DSP-based synthesizer upgrade (Korg MOSS board for Trinity and Triton workstations, Yamaha AN-PLG and DX-PLG plugin boards), more multisamples and preset-memory locations (Roland JV/XP and SRV/XV series expansion boards, Korg EXB-PCM expansion boards, various Yamaha PLG-boards) and even a complete sampler (Korg sampling expansion for the Trinity) or a possibility for treating audio via the external inputs (Yamaha VH-PLG plugin board).

The Big Three (Yamaha, Roland and Korg) now have sampling as a default option with the Yamaha Motif line, the Roland Fantom series and the Korg Triton family. Workstations have a relatively big screen to give a comprehensive overview of the sound, sequencer and sampling options. Since the display is one of the most expensive components of these workstations, Roland and Yamaha chose to keep costs down by not using a touch screen display, and in the case of the Yamaha Motif, not even a high-resolution display. The screen replaces what would otherwise be a lot of extra rotary knobs, sliders, and buttons, which add a lot to the cost of the machine, make the operation look unnecessarily complex, and generally aren't used in the first place.

The sequencer stores events like notes and controllers (like pitch bend), and then replays them into the sound generator, which then makes the music.

Although many music workstations have a keyboard, this is not always the case. In the 1990s, Yamaha, and then Roland, released a series of portable music workstations (starting with the Yamaha QY10). These are sometimes called walkstations.

The concept of the workstation mutated around 1996 and gave birth to the groovebox - a keyless version of a workstation, still with a self-contained sound source and sequencer, mostly aimed at dance. Again, nowadays they also feature a sampler. Roland more or less started the hype, Korg, and Yamaha followed suit. Korg created the much-used Electribe series.

Sound Module
A Sound module (sometimes referred to as tone generator) is an electronic musical instrument without a human-playable interface such as a keyboard, for example. Sound modules have to be "played" using an externally connected device. The external device may be a controller, which is a device that provides the human-playable interface and may or may not produce sounds of its own, or a sequencer, which is computer hardware or software designed to play electronic musical instruments. Connections between sound modules, controllers, and sequencers are generally made with MIDI, which is a standardized protocol designed for this purpose.

Sound modules may use any number of technologies to produce their sounds. A sound module may be a synthesizer, a sampler, a digital piano, or a rompler.

Drum modules are sound modules which specialize in percussion sounds. Drum modules may be triggered by external trigger pads or pickups as well as through MIDI. Drum modules are distinguished from drum machines through their lack of dedicated on-board triggers and lack of an integrated sequencer.

Sound modules are often rack-mountable, but might also have a table-top form factor.

A sound module has the same advantages over a fully-integrated instrument as does any system with a modularized design:

Cost — a sound module is cheaper than a comparable instrument equipped with a controller
Space — a sound module takes up less room than an instrument equipped with a controller
Obsolescence cycles — when it becomes obsolete, a sound module can be replaced without changing a favorite controller, or vice versa.
Because most electronic instruments are designed in a modularized way, manufacturers often release a sound module version of their fully-integrated instruments. A sound module may have all the other features of the controller-equipped version, but it often has a smaller display or limited programming controls. In this case, sounds can be loaded through MIDI or external media. In some cases, sound modules have expanded capacity for sounds in comparison to the controller-equipped version.

Hardware sound modules have in recent years been replaced to a large extent with software equivalents.

On the above picture you see a pretty good midi setup that will let you create pretty much anything you like.

All you need is 1 keyboard version synth with MIDI IN/OUT/THRU.
All other sound modules (rack/desktop synths) doesn't need to have keys which makes them great if you have storage space issues (like me )
This is the 'Master Keyboard' and will let you operate all other synths/soundmodules.

The sequencer (usually on a computer unless u use stuff like workstations or AKAI MPC systems) will record every 'move' you make with that keyboard. The sound source it's still on the sound module/synth.

With sequencers like Cubase you can ever sample the incoming sounds and play them back in a audio file format so they are pretty good stuff to use. One thing is you really need a powerfull PC if you want to go wild.

Also you might want to check Virtual Instruments (software synthesizers) as lately the quality of sounds improved nicely. Personally I prefer hardware than software but it's a presonal choice.

Pretty much all the basic info.

**I forgot to say that you will also need a mixer to combine all the incoming audio. Check BEHRINGER XENYX series.
People say they are noisy and etc but for that price there is nothing that even comes close. And as for the noise... You won't notice it unless you really, really get into music production and that will take some time.

Keep in mind that you will alos need a good sound card to support your software. MOTU seems like a good choice but check ECHO AUDIO. They are often 1/2 the price of MOTU systems and honestly I find it hard to figure out why as their performance is amazing.

For a suggestion out of left field ... possibly controversially so ... have you considered using software?

I use a Roland MC-909 Groovebox which is good (but not great) but am a huge fan of the software program Reason.

I like Reason as it is a great place to learn about producing electronic music - everything from the difference between a synth and sampler to LFOs, modulation, filters, sequencers and so forth.

It comes with a fantastic library of sampled orchestral instruments and some reasonably groovy drum loops. However the onboard sounds can be a little dull in places, but once you learn how oscillators work you'll be able to tweak the inbuilt waveforms (think of them as like raw sounds) to better effect.

I think that's a great suggestion. Reason is a good model in software of a studio. Reason modules even look like hardware devices and in many cases you connect things with virtual patch cords.

I mean, if one wants to learn about a lot of different pieces of studio gear and how they can be interconnected, then Reason is a good tool. That's not to take anything away from Reason as a real production environment._________________--Howard
my music and other stuff

I've seen a couple of novice producer with a big budget posts like this before, and I would like to throw a little caution to the wind ... beware the pitfall of thinking you'll top the charts overnight with spades of mouthwatering toys. Cash can buy you great gear, not creativity, and spending big won't supplement hard work

I like to keep fit, and regularly run and lift weights. Every few weeks someone bails me up talking about getting a gym membership and starting an exercise regime. Often the idea never gets off the ground. Sometimes the person hits the weights for a month then burns out or gets frustrated because they don't see a naked Spartan staring back from the bathroom mirror.

I guess what I'm trying to say is ... don't be impulsive And don't be fooled into thinking spending big bucks is a sure ticket to making great music. The last thing you want is to shell out thousands on a Korg M3 and become disillusioned because your investment isn't paying quick dividends (or the damn thing is way too technical). Get something practical for your situation. Don't be like a weed, sprouting overnight and wilting just as quickly. Be like a tree; plant your roots and be patient Enjoy where you're at, keep striving for another level, never stop learning and have faith in your ability and potential.

And most importantly ... ENJOY IT!

CHRIS
PS- Let us know when you get set up and start making a few tunes, I'd love to have a listen n offer some encouragement
PPS- Apologies if I sound like an egotistical wannabe sage I'm not. I'm just a random guy who likes writing tracks for which he will probably never make any money

I think the Reason idea is a good one. It is a great tool to learn on and many professional, published artists use it too. Plus it allows you to avoid many of the interfacing problems that can occur from useing real gear._________________iP (Ross)
- http://ipassenger.bandcamp.com
- http://soundcloud.com/ipassenger

1. the brain is the most powerful production tool you have and can turn mundane pieces of equipment into beautiful musical instruments.

2. it is going to take you years and years to even approach the level of production values you are used to hearing, let alone make the improvements you are wanting to make. i hope you are patient!

3. asking this forum what equipment to buy is a bit like asking Leonardo Da Vinci, Henry Moore and Damien Hirst what materials you need to buy in order to become an artist.

if you're interested in writing trance, i'd recommend fruityloops or reason as all in one pieces of software that are quick and easy to learn how to use. it's a good way to become familiar with all the terminology. that and a subscription to sound on sound magazine and access to this forum.

get yourself some good studio monitors and start hanging out with other producers._________________there's no I in TEAM, so let's all act as individuals instead

Cash can buy you great gear, not creativity, and spending big won't supplement hard work

I guess what I'm trying to say is ... don't be impulsive And don't be fooled into thinking spending big bucks is a sure ticket to making great music.

Thanks for a SO-TRUE post! I'm another Newby. I took the opposite approach. People were telling me to buy this or that Pricey model when I'm such a newby I don't even play piano or keys (yet).

So I decided to buy the Yamaha MM6 "bread & butter" keyboard/synth for beginners. As synths go, it's Budget. Not a million effect. Just lots of beautiful sounds and the basic tweaky knobs like 'cutoff' and resonance'. (And these are pretty awesome!!) My next job is to learn basic chords & riffs, learn how to use the functions, and how to record decent tracks in Cubase. All this should take about a year.

After that, I'll think about writing "GREAT" music and if I am GREAT enough to deserve a GREAT studio of equipment, I'll buy it.

It also seems pointless to shop for pricey gadgets before you even know what they do. (I still don't understand half of what people tell me about gear.) Start with basics.

I'll stand by my quote about 'the most important music equipment'._________________The most important music equipment is what's in front of the instrument.

I bought a microkorg, and I didn't really know what to do with it. But i went to the library and got The Complete Guide To Synthesizer by Devarahi.

It's an old book, and it is based completely on modular analog synths, and I had a hard time finding one of those.

But. As far as i can tell, a MicroKorg comes pretty close to the actual thing, so all the stuff devarahi tells you to do is pretty easily done on it. the hard part was understanding what he was talking about in the first place, because he gives a pretty bad definition of oscillators and amplifiers etc. So i also picked up sort of an electronic music encyclopedia called soemthing like... The beginner's guide to electroni music or something. it was a thick book, full of math and technical things. but i got through it.

basically. if you want a good understanding of how your synth works, start by learning a little bit of acoustics, some basic electrical knowledge, and an easily controllable synthesizer. it's going to take a lot of work to be able to make sounds that aren't completely boring to listen to. But with a microkorg you have presets on your side.

the one thing i completely hate about my microkorg is that everything is hardwired, like most synths. there are only four available patches, and you can only patch what the synth will let you. they expect they are the most common patches, but you can't for instance make an af oscillator control another af oscillator.

So to do some of the crazy things that i want to dofor my composition, i need a modular synth. and ihave no idea where i can get one, or where i can get the money for one.

As long as you stay withing the confines of cliche electronic music, you'll be fine with a microkorg. but get some books.

I referred back to this great diagram of the synth, computer & sound modules. I'm trying to find out how to make music without the computer. Like if you're going to a jam or something.

I have been asking about various pieces of equipment such as the Nord Micro and the Novation XioSynth. Suppose you have just a basic keyboard with a MIDI connection and 61 keys. Now suppose you want to play it through something that will model your sound, in the way that guitar pedals model the guitar sound. Frinstance just tonite I was jamming with a friend & he asked me if i could make the organ sound more "thick & dirty". I think he ended up using a knob on his PA mixing board.

But could you use one of these small mini-synths? Do these things process audio or just MIDI? Are they used to tweak the sound from something else, or only their own sound?_________________The most important music equipment is what's in front of the instrument.

Many synths today have audio inputs that let you patch in sound and process it using the filters and stuff in the synth. I do it all the time with my Nord Modular and DSI Evolver. There is nothing stopping you from hooking up guitar pedals to the synth output either, you can even run it through a miked guitar amp if you like that sound.

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