Govbarney wrote:Is the ACC really better then the B1G....? Is that the world I am living in now....? Serious props to what FSU is doing this year, but the media would have you believe that they are playing in the little SEC, and I just don't buy it. FSUs best wins are against Clemson , and Miami. Clemson was considered a impressive win because they beat Georgia a team that in retrospect is not nearly as good as everyone thought they would be, and Miami beat no one of note except for a overrated deeply flawed Florida team. The B1G has got some serious flaws, but is there that much of a gap between say Clemson, Miami, VT, N. Carolina and Maryland as there is between MSU, Wisconsin, Nebraska, MU and Minnesota??

Yes. There is.

I don't like it any more than you do, but you're sticking your head in the sand on this one. There are at least 3 ACC teams this year that would win the Big 10 easily if they switched places with Ohio State. MSU might be solid, Wisconsin is ah-ight, but the rest is crap.

Govbarney wrote:Is the ACC really better then the B1G....? Is that the world I am living in now....? Serious props to what FSU is doing this year, but the media would have you believe that they are playing in the little SEC, and I just don't buy it. FSUs best wins are against Clemson , and Miami. Clemson was considered a impressive win because they beat Georgia a team that in retrospect is not nearly as good as everyone thought they would be, and Miami beat no one of note except for a overrated deeply flawed Florida team. The B1G has got some serious flaws, but is there that much of a gap between say Clemson, Miami, VT, N. Carolina and Maryland as there is between MSU, Wisconsin, Nebraska, MU and Minnesota??

Yes. There is.

I don't like it any more than you do, but you're sticking your head in the sand on this one. There are at least 3 ACC teams this year that would win the Big 10 easily if they switched places with Ohio State. MSU might be solid, Wisconsin is ah-ight, but the rest is crap.

I don't think it's at all clear that any ACC team other than FSU would win the B1G minus OSU. Assume you mean FSU and Clemson as two of your "at least three". Who else, pray tell, would "easily" win the Big Ten if OSU wasn't around? Miami? VT? NC? No way even Clemson would win it, IMO. And yes, the Big Ten blows. No argument on that point.

"I believe it is the nature of the human species to reject what is true but unpleasant and to embrace what is obviously false but comforting." H.L. Mencken

Govbarney wrote:Is the ACC really better then the B1G....? Is that the world I am living in now....? Serious props to what FSU is doing this year, but the media would have you believe that they are playing in the little SEC, and I just don't buy it. FSUs best wins are against Clemson , and Miami. Clemson was considered a impressive win because they beat Georgia a team that in retrospect is not nearly as good as everyone thought they would be, and Miami beat no one of note except for a overrated deeply flawed Florida team. The B1G has got some serious flaws, but is there that much of a gap between say Clemson, Miami, VT, N. Carolina and Maryland as there is between MSU, Wisconsin, Nebraska, MU and Minnesota??

Yes. There is.

I don't like it any more than you do, but you're sticking your head in the sand on this one. There are at least 3 ACC teams this year that would win the Big 10 easily if they switched places with Ohio State. MSU might be solid, Wisconsin is ah-ight, but the rest is crap.

I don't think it's at all clear that any ACC team other than FSU would win the B1G minus OSU. Assume you mean FSU and Clemson as two of your "at least three". Who else, pray tell, would "easily" win the Big Ten if OSU wasn't around? Miami? VT? NC? No way even Clemson would win it, IMO. And yes, the Big Ten blows. No argument on that point.

Miami is the third. I think they're overrated, but I also think they're a lot more talented than either of the Big 10 potentials MSU or Wisc (if OSU were gone). After Miami, it's just a bunch of Big 10-ish swill.

Basically, if we argue that OSU = FSU (which is probably a pipe dream, FSU is probably much better, but it's at least arguable) than we also have to argue that MSU = Clemson and Wisconsin = Miami for the "Big 10 is as good as the ACC" argument to work. And IMHO, the ACC has an advantage in all 3 of those comparisons.

I think Wisconsin is the second best team in the B1G, and I would like their chances against Clemson on a neutral field. Michigan State-Miami would be a good game...not sure either team has a decided edge. Clearly the MSU defense is better, and Miami's offense is severely weakened without Duke Johnson. Morris has not looked good at all lately. Meanwhile the MSU offense is coming around from horrible to decent.

"I believe it is the nature of the human species to reject what is true but unpleasant and to embrace what is obviously false but comforting." H.L. Mencken

Govbarney wrote:Is the ACC really better then the B1G....? Is that the world I am living in now....? Serious props to what FSU is doing this year, but the media would have you believe that they are playing in the little SEC, and I just don't buy it. FSUs best wins are against Clemson , and Miami. Clemson was considered a impressive win because they beat Georgia a team that in retrospect is not nearly as good as everyone thought they would be, and Miami beat no one of note except for a overrated deeply flawed Florida team. The B1G has got some serious flaws, but is there that much of a gap between say Clemson, Miami, VT, N. Carolina and Maryland as there is between MSU, Wisconsin, Nebraska, MU and Minnesota??

Yes. There is.

I don't like it any more than you do, but you're sticking your head in the sand on this one. There are at least 3 ACC teams this year that would win the Big 10 easily if they switched places with Ohio State. MSU might be solid, Wisconsin is ah-ight, but the rest is crap.

I don't think it's at all clear that any ACC team other than FSU would win the B1G minus OSU. Assume you mean FSU and Clemson as two of your "at least three". Who else, pray tell, would "easily" win the Big Ten if OSU wasn't around? Miami? VT? NC? No way even Clemson would win it, IMO. And yes, the Big Ten blows. No argument on that point.

Miami is the third. I think they're overrated, but I also think they're a lot more talented than either of the Big 10 potentials MSU or Wisc (if OSU were gone). After Miami, it's just a bunch of Big 10-ish swill.

Basically, if we argue that OSU = FSU (which is probably a pipe dream, FSU is probably much better, but it's at least arguable) than we also have to argue that MSU = Clemson and Wisconsin = Miami for the "Big 10 is as good as the ACC" argument to work. And IMHO, the ACC has an advantage in all 3 of those comparisons.

MSU v Clemson and OSU v. FSU are toss ups for me. BUT I believe OSU > CLEM, MIA.Miami has struggled against some of those so called ACC "Swill" teams (Wake, and NC), where as Wisconson has dominated its "Swill" opponents. Granted Wisconson did have that close loss to ASU, that they really should have pulled out, but ASU has proven to be a decent team this year.

As far as comparing the "Swill" goes, which I think you have to do to get an idea of the competitive environments I go (NEB, MIN > GT, Duke), (MU < VT), (PSU > CUSE, BC), and IND, ILL, NW, IOWA, PUR = PITT, MAR, WAK, NCS, NC, VA

Anyway my point is that FSU does not deserve any consideration over OSU based simply on perceived strengths and weaknesses of their conferences because the ACC and the B1G are essentially a Wash.

"I don't think they're building chemical weapons in Berea. But they might be. I can't say for sure."Chuck Klosterman

danwismar wrote:I think Wisconsin is the second best team in the B1G, and I would like their chances against Clemson on a neutral field. Michigan State-Miami would be a good game...not sure either team has a decided edge. Clearly the MSU defense is better, and Miami's offense is severely weakened without Duke Johnson. Morris has not looked good at all lately. Meanwhile the MSU offense is coming around from horrible to decent.

I would like MSU's chances against Miami, but I think Wiscy gets buttfucked by Clemson, and probably FSU does the same to OSU. Thus my perception that the ACC is better this year.

This would be a national perception as well, rankings on the top 3 ACC teams are 2, 7, 11 versus 4, 17, 24. Which I know mean nothing, I just happen to agree with them.

Points well taken, Hiko. I would just add that Wisky has two losses...both on the road...one by a TD to the No. 4 team in the nation, and the other a complete screw job by PAC-12 officials. They should be ranked way higher. I also think 8-1 MSU should be ranked higher. How they lost to ND is baffling, however.

"I believe it is the nature of the human species to reject what is true but unpleasant and to embrace what is obviously false but comforting." H.L. Mencken

danwismar wrote:Points well taken, Hiko. I would just add that Wisky has two losses...both on the road...one by a TD to the No. 4 team in the nation, and the other a complete screw job by PAC-12 officials. They should be ranked way higher. I also think 8-1 MSU should be ranked higher. How they lost to ND is baffling, however.

And I think that loss to ND is a HUGE blow to the national perception of the Big 10. Here is their 2nd/3rd best team (depending on who you talk to), and they lost to a team that is much worse than the team that got ass raped last year by Alabama. So they use the transitive property to say that Alabama would DESTROY MSU, as would any other team that is good enough to even hang with Bama.

Thus the assumption the only reason they have the record they have is because they play in an obviously inferior conference. Which Wisky clearly suffers from as well, since their 2 losses are "quality" losses.

danwismar wrote:Points well taken, Hiko. I would just add that Wisky has two losses...both on the road...one by a TD to the No. 4 team in the nation, and the other a complete screw job by PAC-12 officials. They should be ranked way higher. I also think 8-1 MSU should be ranked higher. How they lost to ND is baffling, however.

And I think that loss to ND is a HUGE blow to the national perception of the Big 10. Here is their 2nd/3rd best team (depending on who you talk to), and they lost to a team that is much worse than the team that got ass raped last year by Alabama. So they use the transitive property to say that Alabama would DESTROY MSU, as would any other team that is good enough to even hang with Bama.

Thus the assumption the only reason they have the record they have is because they play in an obviously inferior conference. Which Wisky clearly suffers from as well, since their 2 losses are "quality" losses.

I love the transitive property of college football, so does the media.

Coming from a Wolverine, we're the football equivalent of a formerly abused wife of a meth addict who just remarried the safe nice guy. We're just glad we have someone who's aware that it's a rivalry and that tackling on defense is integral. Baby steps.

They desperately need an Oregon loss and this is their best chance at it. FSU does not have much left on its schedule. I think they are very much like Ohio State right now, mostly in the clubhouse waiting to see what happens around them.

My latest projections say that OSU is 52.5% likely to NOT control its own destiny. Basically there is a better than 50:50 chance that even if OSU wins out that they get left behind. My model also says there is about a 10% chance that all 4 teams win out.

If Bama and Oregon both survive this weekend Ohio State's odds of controlling its own destiny plummet to about 31%, and at that point we are hoping that a team in the clubhouse spits the bit against a far inferior team. That does happen, but I wouldn't bet on it. This year's teams feel different.

Coming from a Wolverine, we're the football equivalent of a formerly abused wife of a meth addict who just remarried the safe nice guy. We're just glad we have someone who's aware that it's a rivalry and that tackling on defense is integral. Baby steps.

Cerebral_DownTime wrote:HOLY JEBUS, you have any calculations to predict the weather or the lottery numbers, Furls?

I just picture you looming over an adding machine from about 1982, ashtray overflowing with cigarette butts and a half empty bottle of Jim Beam on a table cluttered with discarded adding tape.

I did my undergrad in Actuarial Mathematics (probability theory, statistical analysis, etc.) and I am a DoE certified Nuclear Engineer right? Creating my little model was actually the easiest math problem I have done in about a decade. I don't count business school because arithmetic is not mathematics.

No, i don't have models for the weather.... as my weather man in CT proves everyday, predicting the weather just makes you look DUMB.

Coming from a Wolverine, we're the football equivalent of a formerly abused wife of a meth addict who just remarried the safe nice guy. We're just glad we have someone who's aware that it's a rivalry and that tackling on defense is integral. Baby steps.

furls wrote:No, i don't have models for the weather.... as my weather man in CT proves everyday, predicting the weather just makes you look DUMB.

Weather models are just exceptionally complicated and need to be taken with (several) grains of salt. Provided with the proper interpretation, there is a potential that a specific one is useful.

Oh, and don't get me started on TV meteorologists. Then again, they don't have the years of training that an Air Force meteorologist would have (or the 10+ years that I've studied meteorology through my PhD). My weather predictions seem to come true a lot more often then TV...

Stanford is currently taking it to Oregon. Just seem to be out-beefing them and forcing them to make mistakes. Twin tight-end sets, power-I's, and they're just moving the ball down the field early. Oregon's not helping at themselves out, either.

They desperately need an Oregon loss and this is their best chance at it. FSU does not have much left on its schedule. I think they are very much like Ohio State right now, mostly in the clubhouse waiting to see what happens around them.

My latest projections say that OSU is 52.5% likely to NOT control its own destiny. Basically there is a better than 50:50 chance that even if OSU wins out that they get left behind. My model also says there is about a 10% chance that all 4 teams win out.

If Bama and Oregon both survive this weekend Ohio State's odds of controlling its own destiny plummet to about 31%, and at that point we are hoping that a team in the clubhouse spits the bit against a far inferior team. That does happen, but I wouldn't bet on it. This year's teams feel different.

What's your model say on Baylor hopping OSU in the next BCS standings? Seems like there might be a solid chance of that happening based on the quality/margin of the Baylor win (assuming it continues) and OSU being on a bye week. Does it all depend on what the pollsters say?

PS - I think we all know the transitive property is crap, but it's "easy" and "groupthink approved". And without any evidence to the contrary, about as close to reality as sheer speculation can get.

They desperately need an Oregon loss and this is their best chance at it. FSU does not have much left on its schedule. I think they are very much like Ohio State right now, mostly in the clubhouse waiting to see what happens around them.

My latest projections say that OSU is 52.5% likely to NOT control its own destiny. Basically there is a better than 50:50 chance that even if OSU wins out that they get left behind. My model also says there is about a 10% chance that all 4 teams win out.

If Bama and Oregon both survive this weekend Ohio State's odds of controlling its own destiny plummet to about 31%, and at that point we are hoping that a team in the clubhouse spits the bit against a far inferior team. That does happen, but I wouldn't bet on it. This year's teams feel different.

What's your model say on Baylor hopping OSU in the next BCS standings? Seems like there might be a solid chance of that happening based on the quality/margin of the Baylor win (assuming it continues) and OSU being on a bye week. Does it all depend on what the pollsters say?

PS - I think we all know the transitive property is crap, but it's "easy" and "groupthink approved". And without any evidence to the contrary, about as close to reality as sheer speculation can get.

If love to see Furls "model" on this as well. I feel It could happen temporally , but all things being equal (OSU goes undefeated, and so does Baylor) it hurts Baylor that they won't play in a conference championship game

Last edited by Govbarney on Fri Nov 08, 2013 12:00 am, edited 1 time in total.

"I don't think they're building chemical weapons in Berea. But they might be. I can't say for sure."Chuck Klosterman

My new policy on Oregon is that I will not forecast them to be dominant (no matter how badly they destroy finesse teams) until they beat a team that is physical on the lines. That was a thorough beat down, and I now believe OSU would've beaten Oregon handily.

Lots of points to make here:

1. I don't want to say there is no way that Baylor jumps the Bucks because frankly, OSU's bye this week hurts a little. I tend to doubt it because Baylor's schedule is actually worse than OSU's and that Oklahoma team is TERRIBLE. They are just as overrated as the U was last week. I didn't include them in my model because when I made it they were ranked in the teens, and frankly, I thought the probability of them finishing undefeated was very remote. I still think it is pretty low. Another interesting thing is occurring right now that will help the Bucks too... the narrative on the B1G is changing. Wisconsin and MSU are starting to get some respect, let's hope they keep winning.

2. Bob Stoopes is a bad coach. OU was in that game, but their gameplan was terrible.

3. Oregon's late rally is very good for OSU. It makes Stanford's win look less impressive, reducing the odds of a Stanford jumping over OSU scenario. Pollsters are lazy and often just look at box scores. I feel a lot better about Stanford winning 26-20 than I do about them winning 33-0.

4. I think we really need a 'Bama loss this week. Right now my model says OSU is back to 68% in control of its own destiny, but a 'Bama win drops that to 58% because these teams are running out of major hurdles.

Coming from a Wolverine, we're the football equivalent of a formerly abused wife of a meth addict who just remarried the safe nice guy. We're just glad we have someone who's aware that it's a rivalry and that tackling on defense is integral. Baby steps.

It's gonna be OSU and FSU in the NCG... 'bama will lose one before this is over.

The thought of playing that FSU team isn't great given our D. That said, I don't think they can stop our offense either and I would never bet against Urban when he has a month to prepare for someone. I can't imagine what the over is going to be if that game happens.

OSU's D is one of the more improved units in the country this year. They went from laughing stock to serviceable to pretty decent. If they keep this trajectory, would have a decent shot at beating anyone.

I know Purdue is not good and PSU is "meh" (despite the "big" win over scUM), but the D is playing better and the scheme is a better match for the personnel. They are letting the DL get after the QB aggressively and they are bringing more pressure with the LBs (they can't cover anyways). Roby is playing within in himself.

Coming from a Wolverine, we're the football equivalent of a formerly abused wife of a meth addict who just remarried the safe nice guy. We're just glad we have someone who's aware that it's a rivalry and that tackling on defense is integral. Baby steps.

furls wrote:2. Bob Stoopes is a bad coach. OU was in that game, but their gameplan was terrible.

Not necessarily defending Stoops, but Holy Crap is OU's QB bad. Dude makes Bauserman look serviceable. Haven't seen OU play at all this year. That kid always that bad, or he just have a bad game?

furls wrote:3. Oregon's late rally is very good for OSU. It makes Stanford's win look less impressive, reducing the odds of a Stanford jumping over OSU scenario. Pollsters are lazy and often just look at box scores. I feel a lot better about Stanford winning 26-20 than I do about them winning 33-0.

You think the same holds for a Thursday night game with no other competing games? I actually think as well as Stanford played, and with everybody watching it, they'd start to get a lot more respect. Luckily that loss to Utah is inexcusable, and should keep them out of the NCG conversation.

furls wrote:2. Bob Stoopes is a bad coach. OU was in that game, but their gameplan was terrible.

Not necessarily defending Stoops, but Holy Crap is OU's QB bad. Dude makes Bauserman look serviceable. Haven't seen OU play at all this year. That kid always that bad, or he just have a bad game?

furls wrote:3. Oregon's late rally is very good for OSU. It makes Stanford's win look less impressive, reducing the odds of a Stanford jumping over OSU scenario. Pollsters are lazy and often just look at box scores. I feel a lot better about Stanford winning 26-20 than I do about them winning 33-0.

You think the same holds for a Thursday night game with no other competing games? I actually think as well as Stanford played, and with everybody watching it, they'd start to get a lot more respect. Luckily that loss to Utah is inexcusable, and should keep them out of the NCG conversation.

OU's QB play was terrible against Texas and just "ok" against ND (the other times I've seen them play this year).

Stanford's loss to Utah is a huge help for OSU, and if the voters have any consistency (yeah right), Stanford's non conference schedule should be benefitial to OSU too. Stanford had those "non impressive-looking" wins that docked OSU (against San Jose St. and Army). Baylor has looked impressive but against Wofford, Buffalo and Louisianna-Monroe and a bunch of sub-.500 Big 12 teams.

OU's just not a good team. Their most impressive win so far is over ND, who's probably around as good as Wisconsin. They got housed by Texas, and now a poor showing against Baylor. OU beat West Virginia 16-7. Baylor beat West Virginia 73-42.

So, Baylor passes its first test, but has to now run through the state of Texas (TTU, TCU, Texas) and Oklahoma State. I'd think they'll drop one of those, but still win the Big XII.

By the way, if things stay as they are now, it's not the worst thing in the world. Check out this bowl slate:

Rose: Stanford vs. OSUFiesta: Baylor vs. OregonNC: Alabama vs. FSU

The Bucks only need one more chip to fall their way. FSU could really help us out this week and screw up against Wake Forest. Weirder things have happened...

The thing that hurts us vs Baylor, is that we have that shared common opponent in Buffalo , that frankly Baylor looked leaps and bounds better then us in (70-13, as opposed to our 40-20). Now I take that with a grain of salt , because Miller only played one Quarter, Hyde and Roby where both suspended, and Buffalo played well against us in very uncomfortable 95+ degree weather (I know I was there), then immediately traveled to play Baylor in 100+ degree weather... that's allot to as a MAC team from Buffalo. (Sidenote: Buffalo has not lost a game since getting thrashed by OSU and Baylor in back to back weeks).

In the end though I think the lack of Conference Championship game dooms Baylor.

"I don't think they're building chemical weapons in Berea. But they might be. I can't say for sure."Chuck Klosterman

OSU's D is one of the more improved units in the country this year. They went from laughing stock to serviceable to pretty decent. If they keep this trajectory, would have a decent shot at beating anyone.

I know Purdue is not good and PSU is "meh" (despite the "big" win over scUM), but the D is playing better and the scheme is a better match for the personnel. They are letting the DL get after the QB aggressively and they are bringing more pressure with the LBs (they can't cover anyways). Roby is playing within in himself.

It's like I've been saying all season.

tOSU will improve and by the end of the year be able to play with anyone.

I think LSU has a decent shot. They have the right players to make a run and this is a vulnerable 'Bama team that has not played elite defenses yet. I think I saw that the best D they faced was ranked in the 90s? Not sure on that. LSU has a shot, probably the best shot.

Coming from a Wolverine, we're the football equivalent of a formerly abused wife of a meth addict who just remarried the safe nice guy. We're just glad we have someone who's aware that it's a rivalry and that tackling on defense is integral. Baby steps.

fairvis wrote:OU's just not a good team. Their most impressive win so far is over ND, who's probably around as good as Wisconsin. They got housed by Texas, and now a poor showing against Baylor. OU beat West Virginia 16-7. Baylor beat West Virginia 73-42.

So, Baylor passes its first test, but has to now run through the state of Texas (TTU, TCU, Texas) and Oklahoma State. I'd think they'll drop one of those, but still win the Big XII.

By the way, if things stay as they are now, it's not the worst thing in the world. Check out this bowl slate:

Rose: Stanford vs. OSUFiesta: Baylor vs. OregonNC: Alabama vs. FSU

The Bucks only need one more chip to fall their way. FSU could really help us out this week and screw up against Wake Forest. Weirder things have happened...

No way you see Oregon fall to the Fiesta. I think I wrote this somewhere else, but the bowl selection order this year for at larges is Orange, Sugar, Fiesta. No way the Orange lets Oregon get past them to take either the AAC champ (UCF?) or Fresno State. The Orange would have the second overall pick of at larges to fill the spot vacated by FSU and they would probably take Clemson (assuming they don't lose anymore). Then the Orange would pick 3rd to fill its at large slot, and would certainly take Oregon over UCF or Fresno State.

Coming from a Wolverine, we're the football equivalent of a formerly abused wife of a meth addict who just remarried the safe nice guy. We're just glad we have someone who's aware that it's a rivalry and that tackling on defense is integral. Baby steps.

fairvis wrote:OU's just not a good team. Their most impressive win so far is over ND, who's probably around as good as Wisconsin.

Wow, what an insult to Wisconsin.

No shit. That ND team awful. They lost to scUM! and that terrible Oklahoma team we saw last night (the same one that was destroyed by a really bad Texas team).

Honestly, Oklahoma is about as bad as Michigan (not joking). Both have mediocre defenses are bad offenses highlighted by terrible offensive playcalling.

Coming from a Wolverine, we're the football equivalent of a formerly abused wife of a meth addict who just remarried the safe nice guy. We're just glad we have someone who's aware that it's a rivalry and that tackling on defense is integral. Baby steps.

The ACC if far better than the Bog 10. Clemson bets Wisky by. 21. The Big 10 is like the 40 year old former jock at the bar that is fat bloated and out of shape talking about over how he won state in wrestling over two dozen wings on his 5th beer.

IDK what that has to do with tOSU not being the 3rd best team right now.

jb wrote:The ACC if far better than the Bog 10. Clemson bets Wisky by. 21. The Big 10 is like the 40 year old former jock at the bar that is fat bloated and out of shape talking about over how he won state in wrestling over two dozen wings on his 5th beer.

Wings are good. Beer is good. And if you ever won state in wresting, that's pretty fucking impressive. Especially in ohio.

jb wrote:The ACC if far better than the Bog 10. Clemson bets Wisky by. 21. The Big 10 is like the 40 year old former jock at the bar that is fat bloated and out of shape talking about over how he won state in wrestling over two dozen wings on his 5th beer.

Wings are good. Beer is good. And if you ever won state in wresting, that's pretty fucking impressive. Especially in ohio.

True statement.

As for JB's point: I will not concede the ACC is better than the B1G.

I think OSU can play with FSU. I think Wisco can play Clemson, no way do I think that is a 21 point Clemson win.

After those two teams the ACC is GARBAGE. Who is #3? Miami, GaTech, VaTech? None of them are good.

Sparty is a pretty good team. After Sparty the B1G takes a nose dive too, but not to the extent that I think Iowa or Nebraska is a shoe in to lose to GaTech or VaTech.

The B1G is down, for sure.... but not to the point where I will concede anything to a VaTech team that just lost to Duke.

Coming from a Wolverine, we're the football equivalent of a formerly abused wife of a meth addict who just remarried the safe nice guy. We're just glad we have someone who's aware that it's a rivalry and that tackling on defense is integral. Baby steps.

jb wrote:The ACC if far better than the Bog 10. Clemson bets Wisky by. 21. The Big 10 is like the 40 year old former jock at the bar that is fat bloated and out of shape talking about over how he won state in wrestling over two dozen wings on his 5th beer.

Wings are good. Beer is good. And if you ever won state in wresting, that's pretty fucking impressive. Especially in ohio.

Well that's the point genius. In the 80s & 90s & Otts the an big 10 was in a renaissance after being down in the 70s with the annual PAC 10 beat down. It was the state rasslin champ. Now it's Purdue getting beat up by the MAC.

The ACC is The Conference of Tomorrow on the side of demographics.

Last edited by jb on Sat Nov 09, 2013 12:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.