49 comments:

Both Scotland and England (plus Wales) were subsumed tris, into the United Kingdom. Then Ireland, (now Northern Ireland). But, with 'ever closer union' just around the corner, none of the old Home Countries will ever be truly independent again.

I hope Scotland once gain feels the freedom that being independent brings, however short.

According to something that was said yesterday, Steve, Scotland ceased to exist and became a part of greater England, which is why England is the successor state to the UK... unless I have misunderstood. But that is what Muddlehead was being asked... was he happy enough to accept that Scotland had ceased to exist as an entity, when we had been told that Scotland and England were equal partners in the UK. He said yes and them waffled about the Czech Republic...

It looks as though our Scottish cousins are now experiencing the English imperialism that we Cornish have been suffering for centuries. Let's hope you give Camoron and crew a bloody nose next year, like you did in 1314. At least you have your own parliament. All we have is a crappy unitary authority, bowing down to Westminster, when 10% of the population petitioned for a Cornish Assembly, along the lines of the Welsh model. The English government don't even acknowledge that the Cornish exist. We come under the heading of 'others' in the census, and even Cornwall Council recently issued a form on which the Cornish were included in the same tick box as gypsies and travellers. What hope is there for us?

Jeez, Anon, you guys in Kernow have got it a lot worse that we have, and you've got that idiot Charlie as your duke sucking the lifeblood out of the country so that he can keep Mrs Parker Bowls in the standard she thinks she should be kept.

I certainly feel strongly that Kernow, with its own culture, own language, own national flag, and own history should not have been "incorporated" quietly into England.

At least because of incompetence on the part of the coalition you won't have to suffer the indignity of Devonwall, because they aren't going to get their reorganisation. For that I'm grateful.

I'd love to give Cameron and his odious Toffs' party a bloody nose. I sincerely hope that we do, because if we don't it's goodbye to everything, because the smug little git will have won and that will put any hope of betterment right out of the plan for the future no matter who gets in to teh English government.

Others... well, I guess at least you aren't "English", but I'm absolutely gobsmacked that YOUR COUNCIL could possibly not have a special box for "Cornish". One day, Anon, they will pay for these injustices.

It was their way of ensuring that England was the re4al UK, and therefore the successor state to the UN Security Council permanent membership which, over the years has probably cost us trillions of pounds to maintain...and all so we can agree with evcerything America says.

Nothing seems to matter more than that (for the good of the world of course) England should be allowed to say at the top table, bringing all the wisdom and intellectual superiority of Bamergoon, Clegg the Fleg, and Wee Wullie Hague not to mention his chauffeur, to bear on the world's problems.

Glad to support you, Tris. I hope you'll do the same for us one day. The only downside I can see to Scottish independence is that we'll almost certainly get your Trident submarines. They're already planning to dredge Falmouth harbour 'to allow large passenger liners to visit', if you believe the blurb.Perhaps Wingnut Windsor can be prevailed upon to veto such a plan, although, if there's money in it for him, who knows?

Most of these countries aren't 'independent' in the true meaning of the word. Most are subservient to the unelected commission in Brussels. All their laws and regulations are subservient to a foreign power. Hopefully Scotland can be independent in the true sense of the word. Setting our own laws and agenda and maintaining control of our oil/ fishing/ energy/ food policy etc...

I see niko's bar is 'blog of the week' over at the Rev's place . Well done niko !

Scotland is hardly been subject to any concerted English normative agenda since 1707.

Last I checked Scotland has secured her particular cultural and legal uniqueness. Do we not have an independent 'Scots' legal system? Do we not have security from a Stuartite 'Anglisation' of confessional worship? Do we not have our own parliament with full control over Scots education, healthcare and much more?

Maybe I've just dreamed up the fact that Scotland historically has dominated one of the great parties of state over the 20th Century (Labour)... or that the monarchy has as much Scottish as German blood in it (note the precious little 'English' blood left in their veins)

How can it possibly be stated that Scotland has been almost colonialised by an aggressive English nationalism when the said states of affairs are the case?

Nationalism is redundant, Scots don't need the 'us and them' politics of division to promote our own cultural and civic norms within this union of equals.The SNP and nationalism is the politics of gripe and grievance. Mine is the multicultural tolerance of the union.

Unfortunately, that is what the report said. They used it to ensure their hegemony as the state of inheritance. Wales genuinely was subsumed, and Northern Ireland is a province, not a country.

One of the two has to inherit... they chose England. To do that they had to highlight the fact the Scotland became part of greater England. As Panda paws pointed out Fluffy, the under secretary of state for Scotland (actually, the very fact that we have one of those, suggests colonial status, at least, for Scotland) agreed and had no problem with that. big mistake. Many people who are indifferent to the political struggle for one reason or another don't like being told they are English.

Exactly Tris. I don't believe for a minute that Scotland was annexed and became a part of England. I've not read the Treaty or the Acts of Union but those who have said it explicitly ruled it out. But if they want to publish rulings that suggest it is, then "publish and be damned" it is!

What a load of cobblers Dean. Multicultural tolerance of the Union? The audacity of that statement appalls me. What Arrogance, What ignorance! Have you read a paper lately? Strivers vs Skivers, council tenants to be evicted, old people being abused while in care. People being reduced to living using food centres. the disabled being harvested for profit. Public sector workers being treated as scum. Out childrens futures put at jeopardy. Useless foreign wars.The tories are wrecking this island and turning into a toilet. I didn't vote for these arseholes and I am pretty certain the majority of us didn't. Imagine my horror then when the party I did vote for, decided it wanted to be tory too. I am at the mercy of parties who are determined to take your precious union and burn it into the ground. Whats left will be a cruel, selfish nasty little shithole. I want nothing to do with it. And hopefully Scotland can get out of this wretched union and save itself from the insanity you think is entirely acceptable.

Were is the love dean? I defy you to show me one instance of this multicultural tolerance.

You deny my nationality, you demand I accept the majority vote of the English. You're swivel eyed when it comes to nationality - there isn't a British Nationality, but there shouldn't be a scots, welsh or Irish nationality, because it is sooo parochial. Its difficult to know were you stand on anyting as you evade and obfuscate with every turn.

There aren't the words to express the contempt I feel for this Union. The more you defend it, the more I come to hate it. I don't recognise your loathsome and drab views of my nation and its people. You have been asked to give one positive vision of this precious non-national union...you have not provided one. So before you leave for another country which is not your own, and has some very fixed ideas about its nationality I am sure...give us all here one single reason to vote for the Union.

Powerful stuff James. You're right. They are turning the country into something unutterably ghastly. They first create a country through their own stupidity (mainly Mrs Thatcher's) where are there no jobs for the people whose families have worked on the land and in hard physical labour for generations, most recently in factories, mills, foundries and shipyards; they scorn that work for service industries, for banking, insurance. Then when the ex workers won't, or more properly, can't find work that they can really do, they insist that they be treated as invalids, in order to keep the unemployment figures from looking too appalling.

In the meantime they run the financial services and banking industries into the ground because greed is good when it is the greed of the rich, and god knows they are greedy beyond belief. Then they demand that the ordinary people bail out the bankers and the insurers.

Then when people start to question the fact that so many people are sick or disabled, they remember that they can pay out less in simple unemployment benefits and at the same time use the ill as slave labour for their friends in the likes of Tesco and Poundshop (ensuring directorships in a later life).

They cut and pare the health service for the poor, safe in the knowledge that when they need it there is a private consultation; then the open these services up to the private sector creating chaos (and more directorships for their futures) [eh Patricia?] then they do the same with the schools and soon the police and fire services. Goodness, soon there will be enough directorships for them all to have 5 or 6 to subsidise the £300 a day for doing nothing that they will receive with their peerages, titles and privileges, red robes, ermine collars and mediaeval ceremonies... all going on while old people die of the cold.

And when the people protest, they interfere with the law to insist that they be punished with incredible severity:-

Pinch a bottle of water during the riots = 6 months in prison and life ruined;

Run a massive bank into the ground costing the taxpayer hundreds of billions and bringing the country to its knees = removal of stupid title, compensated by pension pot bigger than most people cold earn in their lifetime, plus a new job within a few weeks.

That's the kind of Britain/England that they want; they like.

It is the kind of Britain that their great great grandfathers looked down upon from the top floor windows at Eton and later from the dreaming spires. It's the kind of Britain some people gave their lives to change... and they are bringing it back.

Well Anon, it is the kind of thing that he would perhaps be inclined to object to. Not of course for you, but for him and his personal duchy. There is also talk of Wales getting them, and their First Minister has actually volunteered. This on the basis that it brings jobs. Of course I can think of cheaper ways, and safer ways of bringing a few hundred jobs to the area!

Keep in touch... I watch the Cornish situation with interest, as you can see from my blog list.

Well Monty, without getting drawn in to what we now agree is a pointless argument on the merits and demerits of the EU, no country is completely independent. Almost all are in the UN and subject to its dictates, on pain of America and its poodle deciding to take action if it strays (if it's Muslim and has oil) or not (if it's Israel or in China's sphere).

Most countries are also in a variety of different trade and security alliances. England (for we should learn to call ourselves that) has tended to be at the top for quite a while, but no longer. We English are now in the middle ranks and falling.

Aye tris but the EU dictates are binding with fines for failing to fly the EU flag etc. You can pick and choose what UN treaties you agree with and what free trade agreements you support etc.Norway has decided to opt out of the new health and safety laws about to be introduced into the north sea oil sector as it's not in their interests as they have evolved safe working laws over many years. It's not in ours either but we have to take them on anyway. Decades of lessons learnt will be thrown away due to EU Law.

There are, none the less advantages. It actually costs Norway MORE to be a party to the advantages of the EU, with no veto, than it does a similarly sized country inside the union. To avail itself of the benefits it has huge obligations.

Britain, or England as we should now call it, could always veto (and frequently does). Norway cannot.

BTW: Don't make too much of Niko's claim to fame. He's a tad embarrassed about it. What, he wonders, will his friends say?

The Act of Union joined both the Kingdom of Scotl;and and the Kingdom of England to form a single United Kingdom of Great Britain. Mundell basically doesn't know his history and in fact both countries ceased to exsist, just nobody told the English and Scottish traitors.

I'm a simple West Country lad with a high regard for the Scottish people. Please don't confuse the common folk of England with that lot in London SW1. I'm English, my ancestors were agricultural labourers, not toffs or Fabians. England is undergoing Balkanization - ethnically we'll be a minority inside 50 years. For God's sake save yourself Scotland, and get out of the Union.

"When I use a word," Humpty Dumpty said, in a rather scornful tone, "it means just what I choose it to mean - neither more nor less.""The question is," said Alice, "whether you can make words mean so many different things.""The question is," said Humpty Dumpty, "which is to be master - that's all."Through the Looking Glass.

I am being general, what I mean is that English people and ourselves have allowed our culture to be consumed by the more larger culture, that being England. I certainly mean no offence, a lot of my friends are English. Certain Scottish Politicians have put their personal ambition against the interest of their country, likewise in England, that is just wrong.

Don't be fooled by the throwing around of the word 'veto'. Dave has regularly claimed to have used it but didn't.

We've paid £228Bn into the EU since 1979 and received back £148Bn. Imagine what we could have done with that £80Bn ( £8Bn paid for by Scots).Oh and we've lost thousands of jobs as our fishing fleets are decimated, steelworks off shored to the far east as they're not 'carbon friendly'. Our hills covered in useless windmills to meet green targets. I could go on about loss of sovereignty etc but notice you're nodding off ;)

Bruce: I haven't read the report but the London government is trying to spin it that England is the country which will inherit the UK position in the world. It will not have to renegotiate any treaties... the EU for example, and it will not have to share any of the things belonging to the UK but in their country, eg Windsor Castle, the British Museum, the houses of parliament. Most importantly for them, they will retain their seat on the security council, which for some bizarre reason seems to mean everything to Cameroon.

It seemed logical that if that were the case, the debt would also be theirs... but our man in the Cabinet seemed to say it was not the case. We get the debt too. I suspect that the international lawyers might thing that was unreasonable.

I imagine in the end it will be something like the Irish situation where, if I'm not mistaken, the debt was not transferred to the Republic, but neither were British assets.

They may well be correct if they can convinve the world that they retain UK status. I would think that countries like India, China, Pakistan etc will have something to say about that. I think it may be seen by some the chance to question the whole concept of membership of things like the security council.

I think what we will find is that there will have to be a negotiation of assets and liabilities and that discussion will also include Wales and Northern Ireland as Westminster is again making the assumption that they will represent the 3 nations in any negotiation. That may well not be how the devolved assemblies see it.

I think the Better Together mob think they will win with their campaign, and if the vote was tomorrow they would. But I also suspect they know that the next 16 months are going to bring a lot of social changes across all the 4 nations that in the main will be negative for working people, those receiving social security, cities north of London etc. We are seeing changes in opinion polls now but I also suspect that the Tories are not really that bothered either way given that Scotland is fiscally breaking even now as far as they are concerned and they really believe they will retain their status. With USA backing maybe they will pull it off. We will continue to see nagative campaigning but if it is confirmed that nothing really changes for England then we might just see the tone change.

Steve: I don't think that the bulk of the Scottish people, and certainly not the government have any hatred of the English.

Now I know there are exceptions to this, The Last of the Few who is a commentator here sometimes has told me of troubles his English wife has had.

As a person who went to school in England, I know that I too had problems with some English people. "You jocks coming down here stealing our jobs, and going to our schools because you don't have any"... but that doesn't mean that all English people are like that.

Some people hate the French, some the Pakistanis, some people still hold the war against the Germans, or the Japanese, some don't like black people because...erm no idea.

But on this blog we don't hate people because of their race, or their religion, their disability or otherwise, their gender or sexuality, or their politics.

It is at some odds with a piece I read, I think in the Indy... which I will look for and post if I can.

I've always said that I would be happy to be in the position that Iceland, Lichtenstein and Norway are. They are all immensely rich countries, and although Iceland had that little blip over its stupid banking policies, copied directly, it seems, from the UK systems, it is back on its feet again.

Switzerland has its own arrangements, but then Switzerland always does. It can do this because it is economically sound and pretty self sufficient in the events of people falling out with it.

I'll look for that article from which I took my arguments... on the basis that it was fairly balanced, pointing out the advantages and disadvantages.

Sorry Tris, can't agree with you about adopting the 'england' thing simply because a think tank with a very limited remit ie tell the scots why they get nothing) produce a screed of not very soft toilet tissue.

I was born a Scot, raised a Scot and will die a happily independent. scot. Nothing particular against the English but I will not be described as English, german and most definitely not american or any other nationality but Scots.

No doubt we'll make mistakes and not every thing will be milk and honey but they will be Scots mistakes and crowdie is just fine thanks

The BBC say: "...we are not in an official referendum campaign and therefore do not have to balance it out between yes and no."Autumn 2014 marks the most important date in Scotland's historyHelp us to gain the Balanced and Inclusive debate we all deserve

Boorach...I'm not proposing it. I say that it is an interpretation that the London government has put on it, and that, when asked that balloon Muddle the Under Secretary of State for Scotland, agreed with, and had no problem with.

Personally I think it is a load of junk, but it wont do the yes campaign any harm that idiots like this lot are spouting garbage like that.

Dean says "Do we not have an independent 'Scots' legal system? Do we not have security from a Stuartite 'Anglisation' of confessional worship? Do we not have our own parliament with full control over Scots education, healthcare and much more?"

And having apparently concluded that these are good things to have control of, why should Scotland not control all the other issues as well?

When you had a Tory supporting website, Dean, you seemed to be more open to logical discussion. Now that you have become a Labour Unionist, you seem to have adopted the unthinking apparatchik approech that so epitomises the "Scottish" Labour mindset.

It's one of the mysteries of our times that we revel in teh things that our government controls, as opposed to the one elected by the English, but we don't want them to control all the things the London one makes a mess of.