DIESEL ROTARY PISTON ENGINE

In late 2009 we will begin production of three different size, High Torque Multi-fuel Radial Piston engines which will be Air-cooled and Fuel Injected.

There are very few engine choices in the 65HP to 120HP range at the moment and Diesel engines in particular, are virtually non existent for Recreational Aviation use.

We have Patents for the engines already in place for some countries with more to be submitted in early 2009 to give us full world wide protection.

Below are the specifications for the three engine designs (all Diesel, but can be configured to run on UL petrol at slightly less HP). They will have inbuilt gear ratios and drive configurations. All engines have a maximum 3000rpm and are designed to have the following drive options;

(1) Direct drive (for fixed wing and Gyro's) for all three capacity engines(2) Direct drive with counter rotating shafts (for helicopters, fixed wing and Gyro's) for all three capacity engines.(3) Direct drive with 500rpm on front output of engine and 3000rpm on the rear (for Helicopters only) for the 1600cc and 2000cc engines.

Production cost estimates put these engines at around 15 to 20&#37; less than currently available petrol engines (Rotax in particular) of similar horsepower and considering a diesel has 26% more power than a petrol engine of the same displacement, this makes our Radial Piston Diesel a very viable alternative.

We are looking for 'serious' comments from members regarding these engines. We will be relying on your feedback so that we can determine the viability for us to proceed with the production and general consensus that they will be readily accepted throughout the aviation community.

I have attached a photo of the Petrol version proof of concept prototype engine.

Re: DIESEL ROTARY PISTON ENGINE

I assume that is "radial" ? Or really a rotary? Looking at all the sparkplugs, I think you mean radial, or...? Do you have some more drawings photos photos you can share? What kind of injection system is used for the Diesel? Unit pumps, distributor pumps, common rail? How do you deal with switching to different fuels?
I assume these are two-stroke, judging by the eight cylinders?

"Aeronautical engineering is highly educated guessing, worked out to five decimal places. Fred Lindsley, Airspeed."

Re: DIESEL ROTARY PISTON ENGINE

What do you mean by this?
"a diesel has the same power as a petrol engine approximately 26% more in horsepower"

It means he's either ignorant of basic physics, or trying to mislead customers, or (let's give him the benefit of the doubt) just a typo.

Originally Posted by Blackhawk

In the intro I said ;
"Rotary", this term was used so as not to confuse people, as the engine doesn't have a crank shaft, the pistons are cam driven

That's even more confusing: "Rotary" means either rotary piston, as in the Wankel engine, or "rotary" as in early aircraft engines, where the pistons and crankcase rotated around a fixed crankshaft. This sounds more like the Rad-Cam engine, which also promised great things but seems to have had no progress in the last five years.

-Dana

The missionaries go forth to Christianize the savages-- as if the savages weren't dangerous enough already.

Re: DIESEL ROTARY PISTON ENGINE

Originally Posted by Dana

It means he's either ignorant of basic physics, or trying to mislead customers, or (let's give him the benefit of the doubt) just a typo.

That's even more confusing: "Rotary" means either rotary piston, as in the Wankel engine, or "rotary" as in early aircraft engines, where the pistons and crankcase rotated around a fixed crankshaft. This sounds more like the Rad-Cam engine, which also promised great things but seems to have had no progress in the last five years.

Cam driven engines seem to make an appearance every once in a while. If there is a way to make them deal with the enormous loads on the cam surface they would offer a far superior solution to the crank engine. Trouble is usually they use some form of roller moving over the cam and this produces nothing but a thin line of contact. In theory infinitely thin and thus producing an infinite load on the cam surface; in practice of course, the cam surface deforms under the roller until it can support the load. Eventually the surface can't take this treatment any more and breaks down. If they figured out a way to make it last, I'd love to see it one.
The two stroke has a big advantage here, since it doesn't see the constant load reversals.
Here are couple of earlier examples and the current Revtec engine: (click on the third picture to see an animation.)

Attached Thumbnails

"Aeronautical engineering is highly educated guessing, worked out to five decimal places. Fred Lindsley, Airspeed."

Re: DIESEL ROTARY PISTON ENGINE

Originally Posted by Blackhawk

...We are looking for 'serious' comments from members regarding these engines. We will be relying on your feedback so that we can determine the viability for us to proceed with the production and general consensus that they will be readily accepted throughout the aviation community....

I think a more detailed technical description would be in order before any of us could provide you with the type of feedback you'd like. As it stands, the details of this engine are rather confusing, as is some of the non-standard terminology you've been using.

It sounds like you're trying to do a market survey here, but you've left it so open-ended that you're not going to get any useful information out of the exercise. Perhaps narrowing your questions down to a more specific focus would give you a better understanding of your opportunities, and your potential investors more comfort in backing your company.

"If you have built castles in the air, your work need not be lost; that is where they should be. Now put the foundations under them." - Henry David Thoreau

Re: DIESEL ROTARY PISTON ENGINE

Originally Posted by Blackhawk

Topaz,

You are correct in assuming we are doing a market research for the proposed production of these engines.... There won't be any detailed information for a couple of months until the patents are in place world wide.

Ah yes. A tough place to be. You can't disclose detailed information until you've got your intellectual property protections in-place, but you need to disclose detailed information in order to get valid feedback. If it's any comfort, you're in a pretty common scenario for development companies.

If you're going to get any kind of valuable information out of a marketing survey, you should consider framing it more narrowly than "Hey guys, what do you think?" You'll find that the information you get from that kind of question won't be very useful - it doesn't quantify the response in any way that allows you to derive constructive data from the returns. Essentially you'll be getting random uninformed opinions, and that won't sway investors when it comes time to go for funding.

FWIW, you should consider hiring on a market-research firm to handle this kind of work for you, or at least someone familiar with the design of effective research tools. It's cash out the door, but in the end it can help you bring a lot more cash in the door.

"If you have built castles in the air, your work need not be lost; that is where they should be. Now put the foundations under them." - Henry David Thoreau