"It's Supernatural" Guest Appearances

Menu

Monthly Archives: March 2016

Sid: My guest by way of telephone if you haven’t gathered is red hot for the Messiah; his name is Robert Inguanzo. I’m speaking to him at his home in Lincoln Park, New Jersey. And Robert has reason to be a grateful man because he not only was healed of so many incurable diseases but unbeknownst to him he had HIV-AIDS and his wife did not have AIDS, his daughter did not have AIDS, and the little baby that his wife was pregnant of did not have AIDS but he sure did and God performed a mighty miracle. But you know something Robert that intrigues me is the gift of prophecy that operates within you. For instance you were one of a number of people that several months before 9/11 you were speaking in a church this was April of 2001 and you had a warning that you prophesied, what was that?

Robert: Well I was giving my testimony and half way during the testimony the Lord stops me and I start prophesying about the coming revival. And He shows me how there’s 4 angels at the 4 corners of the United States and see how those angels were being removed the protection of the United States was being removed and that how terrorism was going to come into the United States. Now He didn’t specifically tell me about 9/11 or the World Trade Center but He did show me that the protection was going to be removed. And I believe with all of my heart that that is only the beginning that there’s going to be much more attacks from different areas of the United States. And I do believe that the… He showed me how the economy of the United States was going to collapse and He showed me that all of this was going to come because the United States was going to stop supporting Israel. And when the United States stops doing that then that’s when all of these other attacks were going to take place. Ever since then the Lord has been using me in very peculiar ways of what I say. A lot of time I will be preaching and people will start getting oil all over them like an olive oil. A lot of times I will be preaching and all of a sudden there will be a scent of flowers in the church. A beautiful smell of flowers; other times there will be like a gold dust that starts falling and other times it falls on…

Sid: Now are you the only one that sees this or does other people?

Robert: Oh no everybody sees it sometimes it falls like rain, like a light mist. There was this one girl in this one church I was in that she was kind of sad because she didn’t get any dust on her any of the gold dust and when she went home she took her clothes off to take a shower and when she took her clothes off there was gold dust all over, gold dust all over her. Sometimes I’ll be driving and one time I’d be driving with my wife and we’re just listening to Christian music you know beautiful music and all of the sudden she starts getting gold dust all over her arm. One time I was in a restaurant and we were just eating talking about the Lord with some friends at church and my wife said “Robert you’re getting some dust gold dust on your face.” And I said “Oh wow praise God.” And then when I got home I was wearing a hat because it was a few months ago when it was really cold and when I took my hat off in my house all gold dust started fell out of my hat. (Chuckling) So God you know…

Sid: Now when these things happen in a congregation or when your speaking, these signs… are miracles released?

Robert: Very much miracles released but Sid something that really caught my attention at the beginning because you know it doesn’t happen when you want it to it happens, when God wants. But I noticed with the gold dust the oil and all of that it happens in my ministry at least when there’s not a lot of people that are not saved; I noticed that every time like when they’re all Christians we won’t see that many manifestations of miracles, but when there’s a lot of people that are unsaved that’s when we see them. And I’ve noticed that every time.

Sid: Well you know in my opinion the purpose of a miracle and the purpose of a sign is to demand people’s attention so that they can hear the gospel.

Robert: Well it does I’m telling you they run up to the front when I make the altar call I tell them I give 5 seconds for anybody unsaved that wants to get know Jesus and you have seen the reality of Jesus. All of these signs you are seeing is not for me it’s not to glorify me because I’m the first one Sid to admit that I am nothing; all I have is what God has given me and it’s all for His glory. And when I started explaining this Sid I’m telling you I give them 5 seconds and that’s all I need, they run they literally run to the front and accept Jesus as…

Sid: What is the Lord showing you about Israel being a time clock?

Robert: Okay the Lord was telling me about the coming revival. He was telling me about time was short how His coming was short and that Israel was like the clock of time. And He would say “Robert look, look what’s happening in Israel, look look what’s happening in Israel.” And He would show me how there was going to be a move of God in Israel and not only in Israel but that we were going to see that all around the world. He once showed me how this gigantic wave was going to cover the earth but he showed me something very interesting He showed me that the churches that were near to the water this is spiritually speaking not literally near the water. Meaning churches that were on fire for God this is very important for the pastors to hear churches that pray for Israel would be close to the water and those were the churches with the hunger of God that would be hit with the wave first. Then the other churches that were more in dry land he would show me the dry land you know farther away from the water they were going to catch the revival from those churches that first caught it. I thought that that was so interesting.

Sid: Well it sure fits spiritually based on the scriptures. What about the economy of the United States what is the Lord showing you?

Robert: The Lord showed me that the economy of the United States was going to collapse totally.

Sid: What would cause this?

Robert: The Lord showed me also the reason that this was going to happen was because the United States was going to be pressured to abandon Israel and when that happened then the economy of the United States would suffer greatly. And terrible things were going to come not only to the United States but to the world, but to the church the people in the churches and pastors that were on fire for God was going to be the best time in the history. The Lord showed me that it was going to be the last revival and that it was going to be the greatest revival that ever hit the church. That’s coming Sid that’s coming very soon. I couldn’t really honestly put a date on it but I know I feel in my spirit that it’s coming soon.

Sid: Let me ask you a question, if our whole economy is going to go tilt because we’re going to back off of Israel; by the way what will cause us to back off of Israel?”

Robert: He didn’t tell me exactly what it was but I believe in my spirit that it’s going to have to do with oil; the Arabs I believe this that it’s going to be the Arabs threatening the United States to pick either the petroleum or Israel. And the United States will be pressured by the people of the United States to abandon Israel.

Sid: Okay if the economy is going to go sour, go south so to speak, what should we be infesting out money in did God show you?

Robert: Yes definitely he showed me very specifically that we want to make smart investments, if we want to make wise investments we should invest into the kingdom of God where there will never be any collapse. When we invest into the kingdom of God with spreading the gospel so many people cannot travel like for example I travel to many different countries and a lot of time I depend on people’s offering and all of that. Sometimes they can’t do what I’m doing but you know because of their sowing in the gospel in me I’m spreading the gospel. That’s what we have to do to all of these ministries that are of God we have to very careful we have to sow in very good soil that the gospel is spread all around the world.

Sid: Are we going to see creative miracles?

Robert: Well Sid I believe in this coming revival that we’re going to see miracles like we have never even dreamed about. I believe that we’re going to see so many creative miracles; I believe that… the Lord also showed me about a generation that was going to be born in the fire. In other words that people that are going to be saved when the revival hits they’re going to think that all of the creative miracles and even raising dead they’re going to think that all of that was always in the church. It’s like if you tell…

Sid: My guest by way of telephone is Anna Rountree and her name had come up to me several times. I was up in Moravian Falls, North Carolina at a Leaders Idea Exchange with a friend of mine Rick Joyner. And sitting opposite me was a man by the name of Steven Strange and his wife Joy and they’re the Editors of Charisma Magazine. And Steven kept looking at me and he walked up and said “Sid I think you’re supposed to meet Anna and Albert Rountree.” And I said well their names come up before I’d like to meet them and so they arranged for me to meet Anna and her husband Albert. Of course there wasn’t an intriguing portion and that intriguing portion is that Anna has literally 100’s of visitations to heaven and has recorded it so accurately in fact let me read this from her book “The Heaven’s Opened” by Anna Rountree.

This is by Gwen Shaw the Head of End Time Hand Maidens:

“The Heaven’s Opened” is an amazing and beautiful revelation of the place that He has gone to prepare a place for us and where we will spend eternity. Of the many recent books written about our future home none reveals so clearly the glory of God that awaits us if we are faithful to Him during the days of testing that many have already begun to experience. You will read it more than once and you will want to share it with all of your friends you will not be able to put it down.

Sid: Now I found out things about Anna that I went there with Steven and Joy Strange and Joy was saying “Boy I didn’t know those things.” Anna you actually wrote the film script for Steven King’s first movie?

Anna: Well that’s exactly right I withdrew after writing it and took my name off of it because after I wrote it the Lord told me that I was going to be marrying a minister and I didn’t think that that sort of material would be right for a minister’s wife. (Laughing) to have written believe me I didn’t think it was right.

Sid: Now the circumstances of you marrying a minister were pretty interesting. You were being prayed for and being baptized in the Holy Spirit speaking in unknown tongues and what did God tell you?

Anna: Well, He told me I’d be marring the minister of that church.

Sid: Now how does someone walk up to the minister of the church and say God told me I’m going to marry you?

Anna: (Laughing) Well you don’t.

Sid: (Laughing)

Anna: Believe me you don’t do that. In fact the Lord said “Not to say anything to him that he was like a man asleep that He was going to say something to him.” And He did it took a couple of months but He did.

Sid: But then out of curiosity did he…Did God sovereignly tell him or was he attracted to you?

Anna: No, no, no, no he and I were not attracted to one another at all we just you know in the natural we weren’t each other’s type. Now you must realize that when I was working on the first draft of the screen play of “Carrie” I was not saved. I’m sure as a saved person I never would have done it, but I was not saved the Lord brought me into the…

Sid: That was a horrible movie.

Anna: Oh heavens my generation was traumatized by “Psycho” and this other generation of the time when “Carrie” came out in the 70’s was traumatized by “Carrie.” And I mean it’s a ghastly film. What I was trying to do in the film was make it so real that it would be possible, you see. The producers allowed me to they wanted it changed from the location of the book from Vermont to a small Texas town. And I had been from Texas and said “I haven’t lived in Texas in years if you’ll let me go to go to Texas and sit in Texas in a small Texas town then I’ll write this for you.” And therefore I did and that’s when I met my husband they were having these meetings on a Friday night…

Sid: Now your husband was involved he was a Pastor in a church was it Church of the Redeemer was that Houston?

Anna: Yes he was one of the two clergy of that…

Sid: Now that’s the place where within a church the Charismatic movement really got started.

Anna: Yes true it’s very well known of that. In fact like the Vineyard up in Toronto and like Brownsville the world came to Houston to take a coal from the altar you might say and take it back and it ignited fires many places.

Sid: What was the catalyst that started the move of God in that Church do you know?

Anna: Well I believe that it was actually God Himself that did this but it wasn’t known to anyone. What He did is that He gathered together 12 people, two of them were clergy who prayed every single day. One of them had to drive over from Galveston to pray every day early in the morning. It was a church that had what they call a crypt, or a small chapel under… in a basement you might say, in New York, it’s down in the basement. But they would come together in that that particular chapel and pray and they knew that the Lord was doing something because He had moved within them in such a way that compelled them to come together to pray. He had brought them together. And He ignited from those prayers this wonderful outbreak of the Spirit within that church and wonderful music came from it. And my husband he says “Our mouths were just filled with laughter.” (Laughing)

Sid: Sounds like a Psalm to me. (Laughing)

Anna: (Laughing) They were like children because the grace was so great and the outpouring so mighty. He said that we would just ask for anything group for anything and we knew that the Lord would do it.

Sid: Wait that went by to fast “Did you catch that Mishpochah they just…she just said “We would just ask for anything and the Lord would do it.”

Anna: Yes yes it was an extraordinary period of time in everyone’s life. Of course everyone thought that it would last you know that it would go on and on and of course it did spread everywhere. It was a mighty move of God but as with all of the moves of God that have happened in the past they get corrupted they just don’t last.

Sid: Now I’m going to jump a little you got obviously got married and a lot of interesting things happened with the ministry that you and your husband had. But then you met a man by the name of Bob Jones who is a friend of mine. I’ve got a funny Bob Jones story He’s a prophet Mishpochah. And I called him once on the telephone to interview him and at that time I was in the Washington, DC area, I was actually in Gaithersburg, Maryland. I said “Hi Bob my name is Sid Roth an I’m from Washington, DC because who’s heard of Gaithersburg, Maryland. And he said “I can’t talk to you.” And He said “I can’t talk to you.” And I said “Why can’t you?” He said “Because I’m waiting for a call from someone from Gaithersburg, Maryland.’ And I said “Well, that’s me!” And so any way this Bob Jones has had so many amazing visitations and trips to heaven. And I understand that you met him and you decided you wanted to write his life story but you had a problem, what was that?

Anna: (Laughing) Well it’s actually the Lord answered the prayer because of that. We had been in Kansas City and we were interviewing him we were putting it on tape his life story on tape. His life story is really very interesting and we were taping him and also going out to eat I’m not sure which we were enjoying the most. (Laughing) taping or going out to eat together but we were having a wonderful time together. But I would ask him because he would go to heaven and he said “Well I went to heaven and such and such.” And I’d say “Well Bob what does it look like that up there? And he’d say “Well you know.” And I said “Well I really don’t know believe me I don’t know are there colors up there, is everybody dressed in white, does anybody have something that is a different color or something like that?” And he said “Well you know.” And I thought “Oh my word.” (Laughing)

Sid: (Laughing)

Anna: Finally after we finished all of the taping I really told the Lord “If You want me to write the story of this man’s life and he’s going to heaven all of the time and I don’t know what heaven looks like.” And I said “You’re going to have to take me heaven and I need to see heaven myself if You want me to write this, but I just ask one thing I don’t want to have to be smashed up in a car or something you know.”

Sid: I understand.

Anna: Could You just do something a little different here (Laughing) you know? So…

Sid: Did you think He was going to take you to heaven when you prayed that?

Anna: No.

Sid: I didn’t think so.

Anna: No I did not but you know Sid almost from the beginning from the time that I was saved anyone with a prophetic ministry saw me they would say “Well you’ll be seeing into heaven.”

Sid: My guest is certainly red hot for the Messiah, I mean how would you like to pray out to God and say “Jesus if you’re the Messiah show me.” As she prayed this she literally… tell me again Elisabeth Syre, tell me what you saw.

Elisabeth: I was a student in London and studied languages, and I was in 2 minds about this so called Jesus, was He really the Messiah, or was it all like the kind of story that wasn’t true? I had never really experienced Him. The moment I asked “If You really are alive, if You really are the Son of God tell me and show me.” Then I just saw also this wonderful scripture in Zechariah 12:10 and that really convinced me to no end. It says, “They would look up Him whom they have pierced. They will mourn for Him as an only son.” The prophet Zechariah of our own Tenach, of our own kind of Old Testament or the only Testament as we say, it said… it talked about Yeshua, it talked about Jesus. Then after that as I walked into the door into my place in Baker Street in London on the door I saw like a fragmentation of a picture of Messiah. I saw Him with His hands stretched out and He had nail prints in His hands and He looked with such beautiful gentle eyes; He looked at me and I just knew that was Messiah that was Yeshua. I said “Forgive me for not believing in You. Thank you and from now on I will believe in you.” That faith became stronger and stronger. As I started to study out the old scriptures and the new ones and they were all one, and I could find Him everywhere. Then since that time I’ve been standing up for the country of Israel because I know my Yeshua was Jewish.

Sid: Now let me ask you a question.

Elisabeth: Yes?

Sid: For those that are tuning in for the first time, Elisabeth is from South Africa. I’m interviewing her now because she’s on a speaking tour of the United States. She was involved in the holocaust in Holland. Her father had a Jewish sounding name, but he wasn’t Jewish. As a result they put him on a train to go to Dachau, one of the worst Hitler’s concentration camps. It was called a death train because no one ever came back, but he escaped and he took his family, which Elisabeth was just an infant, into hiding. Marvelous story but many years later Elisabeth someone gave you a prophecy about your heritage tell me about that.

Elisabeth: That is right. We were already living in South Africa and in a little colonial town called King Williams Town. We had like a gathering of many many congregations, and a wonderful woman of God, a prophetess, came and shared her story and her message to us. I had brought a whole lot of people in with a big truck, and I was standing in the back and suddenly she pointed her finger at me and said “Will you come forward?” Very reluctantly I went forward and she cried over my feet and she cried and cried and she said “The Lord is just revealing to me that you’re a daughter of Abraham, but you are a true daughter of Abraham and you don’t even know it but you belong to the family of Israel.” Well I cried myself and I thought “Well let’s check it out.” When I went back to Holland my father was in the old age home already. I said “Dad are we Jewish?” He got such a fright he dropped his teacup, he closed the window, he closed the door, and he said “Did anybody hear that?” I said “No there’s no one around.” He said “Well I’ll tell you a secret, you are Jewish by bloodline. Don’t tell anyone because people will hate you. There’s too much going on against people that have Jewish bloodline at any age. So just believe and follow whatever you do, but you know don’t talk with anyone it could cost you your life.” That fear in his eyes was so strong, but also the tears in his eyes spoke to me in such a way that I thought “Wow! What a tremendous persecution he must have been through. What a fear to be found out.” Then I found out his surname was a Jewish name, my grandfather’s surname was a Jewish name, and from my mother’s side was also Jewish, but I only discovered it after a lot of research.

Sid: All these you didn’t even know that you were Jewish.

Elisabeth: All these years it was hidden from me, you are right.

Sid: And I think it’s kind of interesting on yesterday’s broadcast you talked about Corrie Ten Boom laying hands on you and praying for you to be filled with the Holy Spirit. Just… You know Corrie Ten Boom was a very special saint of God, however, what did you experience when she laid hands on you and prayed for you?

Elisabeth: She laid hands on me and prophesied over me. She gave me a scripture from the book of Isaiah I think it was 58. She said “I would build up the broken ruins,” or something like that, I can’t quite remember the whole scripture but it was very special. Then she said to me “That you would go to many nations and you will be a witness, and you will stand in the gap, and you will see it, not in my time.” So she said “You will actually heal the brokenhearted and you will build up the ruins again,” something like that. I said “Well that prophecy is too big for me to understand.” But I said “Well Lord I’m not worthy of this but if that is Your will I will be able to do it.” You know I really felt totally unworthy to go into all the world, but the Lord has done it for 33 years. I’ve been travelling right around the globe to over 40 – 50 nations, I can’t count them anymore. To share the good news of the Lord and I’ve given a tremendous input about Israel I’ve studied every scripture from the Tenach, which is the Old Testament, to the New Testament; I’ve studied out everything in detail and carefully and I just know in Whom I believe. I can share even with people who have never met Him and they are convinced when they read the scripture there is something about this Jewish Yeshua there must be something. It is amazing even pastors are turning towards in effect they don’t have to be Replacement Theology, they can now put their life in the place of Yeshua and see how He lived.

Sid: You know Elisabeth what occurs to me is there is coming a real strong, and you can see it in the newspapers, a division of nations. Most the nations are on one side of the fence, anti-Israel, but there are some that are still pro-Israel. So just as there’s a division in the nations there’s also a division in the churches and some are for Israel, and some are against Israel. According to my understanding of the word of God that is a life or death. A lot of people think “Well all you have to do is believe in Jesus.” But as I understand the scriptures, especially in the days we’re living in right now, it’s a life or death issue, it’s being a sheep or a goat as Jesus said. It’s being for God or against God and I believe the division is going to get ferocious in the world and the division unfortunately is going to get ferocious in the church.

Elisabeth: Very ferocious, I totally agree with you. The book of Isaiah 54 verse 15 says “Behold they shall surely gather together but not by Me. Whosoever shall gather together against thee shall fall for thy sake.” This talks about Israel and I think that many many people will gather against Jerusalem, against Israel, and say “Why don’t they give the land away?” Then again in Joel 3:1, 2 it says “Every nation that rises up against Israel shall surely be destroyed.” God shall deal with that nation. Again I see big divisions in the churches at the moment. Now Sid it’s not as bad as this year, but I see wonderful congregations that have an anointing that have the word of God actually suddenly turning against Israel not having a clue from the Bible what the Bible says about this wonderful land that God has chosen for Himself according to Psalms 105:11 where He says “It is a promise for Isaac and not for Ishmael.” It says clearly “The land of Canaan is for Isaac and Jacob” which means Israel, and they don’t see it. So we have to pray this is a time that the remnant of the nations will stand together. I believe for America right now that America is at the threshold as it were. I believe that many many believers in this land have to choose that either choose to love the Jewish Messiah, or they choose to love their own buildings, and their own situations, and their own kingdoms. I believe we are not building our own kingdom we are building the kingdom of the Lord. I also feel strongly in America that there is a wonderful core of people hallelujah! These people are strong I’ve seen people that really know their Lord and fight the fight of faith. I have real faith for America and I believe God can do mighty miracle through this land because if the people stand together who are believers, just like they stood with 9/11 there will be a mighty revival in this land in spite of the difficulties that are going to come.

Sid: But you know what I believe? I believe the difficulties are going to come, I believe there will be a revival, but I also believe that the churches that stand with the Jew in Israel are going to be blessed in the midst of turmoil beyond their wildest imagines and the others are just going to be flattened.

Elisabeth: Yeah exactly! This is the same vision that I have. Do you know when the Lord spoke to me about those goat nations and sheep nations He spoke about the book of Joel as well, that’s a synonym version that actually says “That everyone that rises up against you God shall judge.” But we as individuals as people that stand for the Lord will have the same challenges as in the last holocaust; either we stand for Israel or we preach from the pulpits like they did in the free churches in Germany “Heil Hitler” then preached the gospel. This is totally uncalled for the whole nation lost a war, right? I think that we now have to come to the point where we say “We either believe the whole Bible and we know what is written in it.” For that point we will be blessed because if we are standing with Israel and we are proclaiming that in every congregation even if they say “You can’t come back” we still will love of course any other nation…

Sid: Elisabeth I’m sorry we’re out of time we’ll pick up here on tomorrow’s broadcast.

Sid: My guest by way of telephone, I’m speaking to him from his home in Key Largo, Florida is RT Kendall. RT is former Senior Pastor of Westminster Chapel in London, England. He holds a PhD from Oxford University. And I’m interviewing him this week on a biggie one of the more important things that God wants you to conquer. And it’s called “Total Forgiveness.” Not forgiveness but “Total Forgiveness” subtitle “When Everything in You Wants to Hold a Grudge, Point a Finger and Remember the Pain God Wants You to Lay it all Aside.” Now on yesterdays broadcast I through a phrase for you to cogitate and meditate on and this phrase actually I was having breakfast with my wife Joy and she teaches women on subjects such as what we’re talking about this week and she said this statement to me which really got me thinking. She said “Unforgiveness keeps us from loving again.” We’re so interested in protecting ourselves that because we don’t want to be hurt you know we’re not stupid, we’re not masochists but we’re so interested in protecting ourselves that when we hold on to this unforgiveness and these grudges it keeps us from loving again. But then you know what it keeps us from receiving love because…you know RT there’s a sowing and reaping principal and we wonder why no one’s loving us well we’re so crippled that we can’t love others.

RT: Well I think in connection with what your wife said, and she’s right, the degree to which we don’t forgive is the degree we’re unable to love. And 1 John 4:18 says “Perfect love casts out fear.” Fear has to do with punishment and so we want to punish the people that’s just why we can’t forgive we want to see them punished and we want to take punishment upon our own hands and we want to do what God said He alone will do “Vengeance is mine sayeth the Lord.” But when we want to do it we’re taking over God’s job and that she’s right “Unforgiveness means that we cannot love.” But that we start forgiving then we start loving.

Sid: And you know in your book you say “Social scientists are discovering that forgiveness helps emotional and physical healings.” And I’m reminded when I read that I was recently at the Toronto Airport Church ministering and John Arnott told me a story I asked him “How come you’re having so many miracles here?” And he said “Sid the real secret is forgiveness.” I’ll tell you a story that there was a woman as child she fell off a horse the horse kicked her bucked her and she fell off the horse and she had back pains, excruciating pains her whole life and she would go to every healing line she could. She’d go to every top healing evangelist she could find – nothing. She’d to doctors, nothing doctors could do. So she was talking to John about this and John looked at her and said “Did you ever forgive the horse?” And she said “No.” And this is a true story and she forgave the horse, John prayed for her instantly healed.

RT: That’s amazing. I preached this sermon on “Total Forgiveness” in Melbourne, Florida about 2 months ago and the next day a lady came to me and said “I went forward last night when you preached your sermon in the middle of the night early this morning I was healed,” she said “Healed, the problems gone!” And it just shows what the Holy Spirit will do when He’s release to be Himself.

Sid: Let’s just review a little bit of what we’ve said today about “Total Forgiveness.”

RT: Well I’ve said mainly 2 things:

We know we’ve totally forgiven when we stop telling people what they did to us

We know we’ve totally forgiven when we will not let the people be afraid of us

You see God doesn’t want us to be afraid of Him He’s not given us a spirit of fear but His Spirit testifies when we cry “Abba Father.” He wants us to have intimacy with Him. And as long as we’re afraid of Him we cannot have that. And when people are afraid of us it’s because they think we want to hurt them. Joseph forgave his brothers and said “Come close to me.” And then then there’s the third thing Sid…

It’s when we don’t those people to feel guilty

Joseph said “Don’t be angry with yourselves for what you did.” Now that’s amazing normally we want people to be very very very upset with what they’ve done and they say “Well I’ll forgive you when I think you’re sufficiently sorry. And one thing that I have people put to me all the time is “Well, how can you forgive them if they’re not sorry, surely they must repent first.”

Sid: They must practice penance.

RT: Yeah I say to them well if you are going to live under the Old Covenant fine it’s tit for tat, but when you take Jesus as your model it’s a whole new world. How many people do you think were repenting at the cross when Jesus said “Father forgive them they don’t know what they’re doing?” And I choose to make Jesus my model by the way Sid when people are sorry it takes little grace to forgive them but when they’re not sorry it takes a lot of grace to forgive them, and nobody was sorry at the cross that Jesus said “Father forgive them.” And one of the things I’ve observed perhaps you have as well most people that I have had to forgive in fact the people that I had to forgive that I have talked to you about a couple days ago when Joseph Zung said “RT you must totally forgive them” those people never felt that they did anything wrong I’m sure of it you could put them under a lie detector and they would feel “Why is RT worried about this?” Most people I have had to forgive they don’t feel they’ve done anything wrong and that’s what kind of hurts you think “Well they ought to know.” And for this reason I caution people, if you have now forgiven them don’t run to them and say “Guess what I forgive you for what you’ve done” because they are going to look at you and say “You’ve forgiven me for what? “Well you know what you’ve done. ‘Well you surely do.’ Well I’m sorry I don’t.” Well now you have a real fight on your hands, don’t go to them and say “I forgive you.” It’s got to happen in your heart and don’t wait them…don’t wait for them to repent chances are you’ll never have to forgive them if you go by that it’s got to happen in your heart.

Sid: Let me ask you a question “Let’s suppose that someone has wounded you deeply and you’ve wounded them deeply and you understand about forgiveness so the first thing you do is you go to them and you repent for having wounded them and ask them to forgive you, which they do. But then they don’t repent for what they’ve done to you, what do you suggest?”

RT: It’s their problem don’t let it be your problem.

Sid: What if it becomes your problem?

RT: Well then get over it!

Sid: (Laughing)

RT: You are required to forgive them and required to get over the self-pity. The only time ever, ever that you go them and say “I forgive you” it’s when they’re begging for it they’re dying for you to forgive them and they’ll be thrilled to hear. But 9 times out of 10 and that’s conservative I’ll say 99 times out of 100 the people I have to forgive they honestly do not believe they’ve done anything wrong at all. Which goes to show I’ve probably hurt people and I don’t know it, have you ever thought about that. There are probably people that have to forgive me and if they came to me and say that I’ve hurt them I would be astounded, I’d be shocked but I have and to them it’s very very real. And so in my own case when I have felt the people hurt me I don’t wait to see that they’ve done the wrong thing and are sorry I just forgive them and never let them know that it was a problem. Which brings me to the 4th proof that we’ve totally forgiven:

That you don’t tell what they did

Won’t let them be afraid of us

Don’t let them feel guilty

Sid we let them save face

And you know what Joseph said to those brothers? He said “Don’t be angry with yourselves because it wasn’t you who sent me here it was God.” Amazing isn’t it.

Sid: You know what I found is is some of the worst situations that I have been in that the devil meant for evil God has actually used it for good.

RT: Exactly. Well if I’m allowed to say it I’ve written a book called “God Meant it For Good” and it is on the life of Joseph and I have dedicated that book to Joseph Zung that we’ve been talking about. The book “Total Forgiveness” is taking one chapter out of “God Meant it For Good” and making a whole book out of it because that was the part that most about in the book “God Meant it For Good.”

Sid: Now I’m reading quotes from “Who’s Who” of Christendom to people that are endorsing your book but I’m wondering if there’s one quick story that comes to mind about someone that’s either heard you speak or read this message and the effect it had on them.

RT: Well I’ve had more unsolicited letters than you can imagine of people saying “You’ve put my marriage back together.” I’ve had a pastor say that “My deacons now speak to each other.” I’ve had a situation where a pastor was reconciled to his congregation would never ever quote you know names or given give a hint but this book has been the nearest to performing the miraculous of any book than I have ever written. And that is simply because when we forgive the Holy Spirit is released to be Himself and this why people get healed, it affects your health, blood pressure will go down, in some cases arthritis if caused by holding a grudge. And you mentioned earlier that the non-Christian world has discovered the value of forgiveness and if non-Christians can see the value of forgiveness that leaves us without excuse doesn’t it.

Sid: How much more I mean “We’re supposed to be the light and the salt.”

Sid: Well I have a young man Larry Sparks on the telephone that he is just finishing up on his Masters Degree and the subject he’s getting it in anyone would like this. How in the world do you get a Masters in studying revival Larry? (Laughing)

Larry: Well I started my program and it was one of those things where I began with a Master of Divinity and Practical Theology. And over time it was one of those things where different concentrations came up. I had the opportunity to go with different things and one of the things that was available was church history particularly revival history. So it’s been really exciting to do that. And I’m just every time I go to class you know some people call seminary cemetery but the Lord’s really used it to ignite my faith exposing me to all of these stories of what’s God’s done.

Sid: Well Larry we’re talking today about your brand new book “Breakthrough Faith.” If there has ever been a time that people need a breakthrough that time is now! Before we even get into the keys for breakthrough I want to take you back right at you were saved at 16 and you started going to a church that was known for worship, but something happened to you that has literally changed the whole direction of your life. You had an experience; a man with an experience with God is dangerous to the devil. What happened to you?

Larry: Well it’s very interesting because and I want to encourage all of the listeners right now that for something to be supernatural it doesn’t need to be spectacular it can be very subtle and that’s what happened to me. I was on a quest to know God, I was looking at different churches it just came out of the blue it is the Lord just awakening this inside of me. I’d got a lot of information about God but information and revelation are two different things. You can have information about somebody but never be intimate with them. And so I got information I went to Christian school but at 16 years old I got my driver’s license, I heard about this local church that had something called Contemporary Praise and Worship which I had no idea I was just used to organs and maybe just kind of the old style of music in a church. I went and the message was good but the music was a little strange people were lifting their hands and clapping and it was bazaar to me but one night it was July of 1999 in that church I was standing there in the midst of worship very suddenly but very powerfully I felt like a heat in my chest and then kind of a electricity in my fingers. This was not stuff I was imagining it was a physical thing again I didn’t fall over I didn’t have anything like that happen but it was so deep and so profound I knew it was God, I knew He was real, and the amazing thing Sid is I’m still living out of that one encounter. Again it was so subtle I still live out of that because it was so wow this God who’s out there, this God who’s real more of Him to be experienced.

Sid: You know if you ever read the Wuest translation of the Bible?

Larry: No.

Sid: It’s a fabulous one and John 17:3 says “This is eternal life namely that they might be having experiential knowledge of You.” And to me that’s the missing ingredient of 21st century Christianity. And yes you need to word, yes you need to be born from above but a man with an experience is as I said is dangerous to the devil. So you found yourself going to a church that was in what is called Word of Faith teaching. Now as you and I have discussed before this broadcast I started under a man by the name of Kenneth Hagen I didn’t go to his school and I read all of his literature and I got to know him personally. I found that short of someone that operates in the glory realm or in miracles say a Bill Johnson.

Larry: Yes.

Sid: That if someone is struggling with healing that is the single best teaching that I know, and so this is how I grew up. But then the same thing that happened to you happened to me and that is people took the pure Word of Faith message in having to do with healing but then opened it up to other arenas like finances and then went overboard way beyond the people like Kenneth Hagen took it. What was your experience in this word of faith church?

Larry: Well first off it’s funny Sid because people will ask me you know reading my book or just knowing me in the past they’ll say “Are you one of the those faith people?” And I just find that such a funny thing it’s like what’s the opposite “Do you want me to be a doubt person?” You know it’s just like the reality is the word of faith movement from what I’ve studied and what I understand. It was actually been born out of a Biblical principal and that is just stand on the word of God, confess the word. In fact I was thinking about this Sid yesterday just as we’d been talking about it you know what Lord “The word of faith movement has actually made a huge contribution to the Body of Christ because in so many spheres and so much Bible knowledge, but Word of Faith particularly under the influence of Brother Hagen really encouraged us to put the word to work and actually speak it out and actually just sitting there and reading it which is good but he really invited us that movement really encourage us to put it into action. So I was at a Word of Faith church and so I got a lot of good principals was exposed the believers authority the power in the name of Jesus. Oh gosh another great one was “God’s Creative Power” by Charles Capps but what ended up happening is that we were there 7 years this was not the church I had the encounter with God at by the way this was a different church. And the church where I had the encounter really throughout the years to this very day places an emphasis on the presence. The word of faith church had a lot of principals but the presence of God was not their pursuit it was basically putting good principals into formulas to getting what you wanted from God. I remember there was a teaching series “How to get what you want and need and desire from God.” And the reality is God wants to meet your need I want to encourage the listeners God wants to meet your needs. He wants to actually fulfill the desires of your heart He wants to do those things the problem is God is not a formula; He’s not like Santa Claus, He is our best friend. The Holy Spirit is our best friend; we love Jesus because of who He is. And in the book I really place an emphasis on the knowledge God intimately knowing God because when we divorce intimacy with God, the presence of God from good Biblical principals again we turn God a person God the person into a formula and that’s what we found, that’s what we saw after 7 years of being in that movement. And you know that I would say is the imbalance of the Word of Faith.

Sid: I agree totally with that but you also found some sort of when they went way much further than people like Hagen in having to do with finances.

Larry: Yes, yes I mean the entire message it was funny the tithe messages asked the church, not just this particular church but these particular churches would be like an hour long sometimes, no exaggeration. It doesn’t mean that always bad but it’s just the emphasis when the bent of the emphasis is that church, when the culture of that church is all about using God just to get money and wealth and stuff and using those principals with plug in to the God formula and okay I’m going to plug in my confession because I just want to get what I need from God that just rubbed us the wrong way. What happened with me, and this is what sort of created tension with me and the church, I and some others in the church we looked outside of that particular teaching for people that were teaching about the presence of God, about intimacy with God. And people out there like John Bevier there were people that I knew at the time who were encouraging people to draw near to God.

Sid: Now just out of curiosity did you find yourself because of the legalistic approach coming under condemnation?

Larry: Yeah, yes I found myself in that position and other people did because it got so crazy and sometimes where as if you said something for example if you said “You know what I’m having a pretty bad day today or wow man my back hurts” if you say that people would actually say “Don’t say that you’re going to curse your life.” Now again there’s a balance again they’re saying “I’m having a bad day and they’re saying that my back hurts but then they’re saying you know what I’m going to die at age 50.” And actually believing that and confessing that and pronouncing that and confessing that over your life I believe you can I mean Biblically you can curse your life when you actually agree with the report of the devil.” But man that was the legalism…

Sid: But then because of where they were at and because of your hunger for intimacy with God you went from one extreme to another extreme.

Larry: (Laughing)

Sid: Tell me what happened.

Larry: Well when we left that particular church after being there 7 years, I was there about 7 years. I wanted to run away from all of that I wanted to throw the baby out with the bathwater. Which by the way you know one thing I believe the Lord wants to do Sid as we’re talking just as He is in me I believe that He wants to heal our sins in our hearts because it’s easy to get offended by that stuff it is. It’s easy to get offended in situation where maybe you or a loved one were praying for healing or praying for a breakthrough and somebody said something real bad to you like “Wow you didn’t get healed you didn’t have enough faith or you didn’t make the right confession.” I believe Sid even as we’re talking about this the Holy Spirit is touching people and just bringing restoration and healing to ascend. He’s actually causing them to remember these things just simply repent for them and I believe the Lord wants to bring a Biblical balance to this and help people to walk in breakthrough. Because Sid the opposite I think, it was even I don’t know if it was just as bad or might have been worst, is that I ran away from all of that stuff almost running away from the Charismatic movement entirely I couldn’t. I couldn’t run away from the presence because I had been so profoundly impacted. So I was running away from the word of faith stuff anytime I heard anybody talk about it use any of that language there was a great offense or anger in my heart. And then what happened is we found ourselves in churches that basically they had faith for when you got to heaven you know “Well if God sovereignty wants to heal you maybe or if He sovereignty wants to move now that’s great but we’re holding out for heaven one day we’ll believe that we’ll be healed and whole and everything and all of our problems will be solved when we get to heaven one day.” But there was not a lot of hope for right now for today. We were in that for a couple of years and it was the exact opposite and what we noticed is I believed that a lot of people in that culture end up needlessly dealing with the devil. I mean needlessly walking in sickness and defeat and just being condemned and overwhelmed. So yeah that was the other opposite it was great theological teaching that we go about the cross and I am grateful yeah forever grateful, but when it came to walking in faith for now for now to see victory now it was quite the opposite.

Sid: And today when you prayed out to God and you said “Okay I feel like a billiard ball I mean I’m going this direction and I’m going that direction. You prayed to God “What is the truth.”

Larry: Yeah.

Sid: What did God begin to reveal to you?

Larry: Well you know what happened He immediately brought me to the word, and I would encourage the listeners that’s the best place to go because I was just doing for…I was doing a study of healing throughout the New Testament throughout the gospels just different healing stories. And I got to one and I read it and heard it before and heard message about it but man it really ignited something inside of me tenacity. And it was Mark chapter 2 where you have these 4 men who carry their paralyzed friend I mean the guy is completely paralyzed paraplegic cannot move they’re carrying him on a stretcher they bring him to Jesus they want to bring him to Jesus. But what happened is they get to the house where Jesus is and they can’t get in they can’t get in because of the crowd there’s this obstacle there’s opposition and my fear is that today that would happen and what would happen as a result of that we have a need, we bring it to Jesus we experience opposition and because there is an obstacle and we don’t immediately see a breakthrough the sad thing is a lot of people actually change theology about God because of what they don’t see. They bring their need to God, they pray, they cry out and they don’t immediately see something happen so they conclude “Well I guess God doesn’t heal, I guess God doesn’t want to do this and well we’ll just let God’s sovereign will be the sovereign will whatever happens happens.” I’d be okay if these 4 guys ended up making a different decision turning around going home and concluding to themselves “You know what I guess it’s not God’s will to heal our friend today.”But they did not do that and that just got inside of me Sid I saw what they did they were tenacious they were relentless they actually carried the parallelized up to the roof broke the ceiling, lowered him down to Jesus. And Jesus was not upset about this I think about this “What if this happened in churches today?” And “We don’t even want to think about this oh the service is being interrupted all of this is being is going on.” But if anybody, if anybody should not have been interrupted it should have been Jesus but Jesus did not get upset, He did not get bothered. He said “He saw their faith” and He said “Son your sins are forgiven.” And then as a result he healed the man, but we know what happened to know the outcome but what got me was the audacious relentless attitude of these 4 friends they did not accept the obstacle instead the obstacle caused them to press into God a little further and as a result they got their breakthrough. I’m wondering today for those of you guys that are listening to us if maybe your breakthrough I’m believing that maybe your breakthrough might just be on the other side of perseverance. And I’m praying that the Spirit of God would just give you a supernatural fresh anointing of perseverance and strength to contend for your breakthrough.

Sid: I believe people and that is so key people quit just before the victory. But let’s face it we do have an adversary. For instance I…you know what gets me so upset Larry is when believers real believers say “Well everything that happens to me in my life is God’s will.” What would you say?

Larry: I would say “You know what look at Mark Chapter 2 that’s just one example, one example.” I would say “Look at the different gospel accounts.” We need to go back to the gospels we need to be challenged by how Jesus responded because so many times whether it’s this paralyzed may being lowered through the ceiling, whether it’s blind Bartimaeus crying out, whether it was the woman with the issue of blood. This woman was nonstop blood flow 12 years pressing through a crowd to get to Jesus. These people actually did not allow there circumstance to be final; they did not believe that their circumstance and situation was superior to the word of God. They didn’t do so many people today do and it’s kind of a lazy theology they just say “You know what it happening so I default that it must be God’s will.” These people had something happening to them but they did not conclude that it was God’s will they actually thought that God’s will was actually something very different and they pressed in to receive it. And that’s why we have these stories in the Bible in the gospel they pressed in and they got the miracle, it’s amazing.

Sid: Now your brand new book “Breakthrough Faith” you wrote it for 3 groups of people who are they?

Larry: Well I wrote it first of all for people who are hungry, for people who want more of God and who want to actually see a breakthrough lifestyle become normal for them. Because that’s what God wants to do He wants to release something that is sustainable. Sustain not just a touch, not just an encounter those things are great but He wants this lifestyle to be sustained. So I believe…

Sid: That really is your passion of your life.

Larry: Yeah.

Sid: To have greater and greater hunger and intimacy with the God, that should be everyone’s passion.

Larry: Yes absolutely because here’s the thing there’s no limit to how much of Him we can experience. In Isaiah 9:10 “And the increase of His government there will be no end.” There is so much that He wants to release into the earth and He releases it into the earth through His people His kingdom. Where’s His kingdom? The kingdom inside of us so my desire is first that yeah this book would stir up those that are already hungry for God.

Sid: Alright the 2nd people group.

Larry: (Laughing) And really the second group of people would be people who have been offended or people who have had false…exposure to the false faith to the incorrect faith. Whether it was extreme word of faith teaching or the cardinal gospel of their spirit, people who are just about ready to give up on the what they call “All that faith stuff.” My prayer and my earnest desire is that not only would this encourage faith people people that are already believing for this but people who have no exposure to this. Sid that’s why I went to seminary that’s why I went I don’t believe it’s necessary to teach the gospel, to teach the word, I don’t think it’s imperative but I went because I want to do my best to steward these things and equip people especially those who are maybe not walking in a supernatural lifestyle I want to do what I can to bring a legitimacy to that. Sid that’s my desire through this book, through my own personal experiences with both sides and my best theological understanding of the Bible to help people who have just misconceptions and confusion about faith to actually start walking in it and get into and actually get hungry for it.

Sid: And of course the biggest need are those that feel that they’ve done everything they’ve been taught to do and they were supposed to be healed and they weren’t and they’re in a hopeless state you need breakthrough faith. This is what I can promise you you’re going to have a breakthrough of epic proportions this is what I’m going to promise you you will have a breakthrough of epic proportions. I believe that we had 2 of our staff senior producer types that read this book and they understood all about Word of Faith and healing and they said “What a breath of fresh air I feel like I’m now encouraged, I now have this breakthrough faith….When we come back I’ve got to hear the vision you had of the ancient rusty gates that are part of the entire breakthrough.

Sid: It’s not an accident that right after we finished our Days of Elijah Celebration in St. Simons Island, Georgia, and for those that did not know about it we had an intercessors conference. We had close to 200 intercessors that came in and prayed 2 days on the same grounds where the conference was going to be. And literally we had heaven on earth.

But almost simultaneous to the conference I want to read you an account from the Boston Globe:

The rocks have been lifted all over Europe and the snakes of Jew hatred are slithering free.

In Belgium thugs beat up the Chief Rabbi kicking him in the face and calling him a dirty Jew. Two synagogues in Brussels were firebombed, a third was sprayed with automatic weapons fire.

In Britain, the cover of the New Statesman, a left wing magazine depicted a large star of David stabbing the Union Jack. Oxford Professor Tom Paulin, a noted poet, told an Egyptian interviewer that “American Jews who move to the West Bank in Gaza should be shot dead.” A Jewish Yeshiva student reading the Psalms was stabbed 27 times on a London bus. Anti-Semitism wrote a columnist in The Spectator “has become respectable at London dinner tables.” She quoted one member of the House of Lords quote “The Jews have been asking for it and now thank God we can say what we think at last.”

In Italy, the daily paper published a Page 1 cartoon: A tank emblazoned with a Jewish Star points it’s gun at the baby Jesus who pleads “Surely they don’t want to kill me again.”

In Germany, a rabbinical student was beaten up in downtown Berlin and a grenade was thrown into a Jewish cemetery. Thousands of neo-Nazis held a rally marching near a synagogue on a Jewish Sabbath. Graffiti appeared on a synagogue in a western town of Herford “Six million were not enough.”

In Ukraine skinheads attack Jewish worshippers and smashed the windows of Kiev synagogue. Ukrainian police denied the attack was anti-Jewish.

In Greece, Jewish graves were desecrated in Ioannina andvandals hurled paint in the Holocaust memorial in Salonica.

In Holland, an anti-Israel demonstration featured swastikas, photos of Hitler and chants of “Sieg Heil” and “Jews into the sea.”

But nowhere has the flames of anti-Semitism burn more ferociously than in France. In Lyon, a car was rammed into a synagogue and set on fire.In Montpellier, the Jewish center was firebombed; so were synagogues in Strasbourg and Marseille. So was a Jewish School in Creteil. A Jewish sports club in Toulouse was attacked with Molotov cocktails.

In Bondy 15 men beat-up members of a Jewish football team with sticks and metal bars. The bus that takes Jewish children to school had been attacked 3 times in the last 14 months. According to the police metropolitan Paris has seen 10 to 12 anti-Jewish incidents per day since Easter. Walls in Jewish neighborhoods have been defaced with slogans proclaiming “Jews to the gas chambers” and “Death to the Jews.”

I mean it goes on and on. It seems to me that a lot of people think the holocaust was ancient history, but you can go back all through history and see this Jew hatred. Even today I’m reading to you these are current events going on worldwide. Why is the Jew so hated? It’s because the church has yet to understand what the devil understands. That when the Jewish people are grafted back into the Body the full Body of Messiah Jew and Gentile become that One New Man and new life.

Let me put it this way, in Amos the 9th chapter it talks about restoring or raising up the tabernacle of David. But the word tabernacle in the Hebrew could also be translated family of David. And so what Amos is saying in the ninth chapter the 11th verse is “When the Tabernacle, or the family of David, or the Jewish people, is restored it says the rest of the Gentiles who are called by my name will come in.” It goes on to say that “When the family of David is restored a great revival will occur among the Gentiles,” and it says according to what I read here in the 13th verse the greatest revival in history. It says “Behold the days are coming says the Lord when the plowman shall overtake the reaper and the treader of grapes and him who sows seeds.” In other words the fruit will grow so fast it can’t even be harvested and that’s what we’re about ready to have.

But let me explain the principal on how this works, why Amos says “When the family of David is restored to the Body of Messiah it’s sort of like Genesis 12:3 God says “I’ll bless those who bless the Jewish people and I’ll curse those who curse them.” Well this principal is true throughout all of scripture and it’s found with the Ark of the Covenant. Wherever the Ark of the Covenant went, which represents the Jewish people, based on our attitude towards of the Ark of the Covenant was tremendous blessings or tremendous coursings. For instance in 1st Samuel the 5th verse it says that the Philistines captured the Ark of the Covenant. What happened? For 7 months they had the worst tumors and sores until they got rid of it.

Then in 2nd Samuel the 6th chapter the 11th verse we find out that the Ark of the Covenant rested at the home of Obed Edom. And what happened? His entire house was blessed, so based on your attitude to the Jewish people, and this was what Paul was talking about in the 11th chapter of Romans he said “If it was a blessing the Jewish people rejected their Messiah how much greater blessing when they receive their Messiah it will literally cause life from the dead.”

So this is why we had our Days of Elijah Conference which comes from Malachi the 3rd chapter. And Malachi says…well let us pick up in the 4th chapter the 5th verse, “Behold I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and the dreadful day of the Lord.” Now what is Elijah going to do? Well we know Elijah was a man who took on the prophets of Baal, took on the false gods and we know that John the Baptist had the Spirit of Elijah on him and what did he do? Nothing more than call Israel to repent so that there could be a great revival with the coming of the Lord.

So what is the spirit of Elijah that will come on the church in the last days going to do? The 6th verse tells us “He will turn the hearts of the Fathers to the children and the hearts of the children to their fathers.” Interesting doesn’t say mothers it says fathers.

According to the 9th chapter the 1st verse of the book of Romans Paul says “The Fathers are Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.” So what is Malachi saying? Of course he’s talking about a restoration of fathers and children in the literal, but he’s also talking about that great same spiritual principal that Paul talks about when the hearts of the fathers, the Jewish people are knit and returned to hearts of the children if the fathers are the Jewish people the children then are the Christians. So the hearts of the Christians it says if this doesn’t happen they’ll be a great curse. But guess what, if it does happen they’ll be a great blessing.

I wish you had been there at that conference The Days of Elijah because there was the most magnificent dancing and processional and we had literally a replica of the Western Wall and the Holy of Holies.

One 17 year old girl wrote in that attended the conference and she said “I saw 2 rows of angels; one was sitting on the edges of the tent meeting, the other row was behind them and they were dancing and singing while we were praising. Then she goes on to say “I saw an angels in the congregation one very large angel standing behind the worship leader the angel was large enough to have his hands over the worship leaders head; when we started singing the song it was like heaven paused to listen as all of the angels in the room stopped in the middle of what they were doing and stood awestruck as they listened.”

Now I could go…she just saw so many things going on in the angelic in the invisible realm. I wish I had seen this all; I’ll tell you what I sat under such an outpouring of God’s Spirit. Those that were there had reports of “I had no great heart for the Jewish people and Israel but after seeing this I understand why it’s so important to God for Jews and Gentiles to become One New Man in Jesus. It’s so important for Christians to stand up for the Jew in Israel.”