Agreed, Michele. I think people are too quick to make the leap from "I don't like this" to "Lindsey was intentionally kinda sucking" when it comes to Mirage. I think it absolutely was what he wanted to put out. The difference is that it just... wasn't very interesting.

I do have a soft spot for Book of Love though. That was the only not-Stevie Mirage song that I actually enjoyed for a good year into my Mac fandom.

For me, Stevie's songs are the only ones I don't like (Except "Gypsy"). I'm not too high on some of Christine's ("Love in Store" and "Hold Me" are great), but they're decent. Same with "Empire State" for Lindsey. But overall I like more Lindsey songs on the album than anyone else.

For me, Stevie's songs are the only ones I don't like (Except "Gypsy"). I'm not too high on some of Christine's ("Love in Store" and "Hold Me" are great), but they're decent. Same with "Empire State" for Lindsey. But overall I like more Lindsey songs on the album than anyone else.

I'm glad there's a difference of opinion, then. These songs were the product of hard work and it's reassuring that someone appreciates them. I don't think I'll ever be able to wrap my head around the idea of anyone finding Oh Diane musically compelling. But, you know, diverse tapestry of life and all that.

Though I know some of you may view it as the easy choice, I'm shocked more people haven't voted for Rumours. Has Lindsey ever really surpassed his work on that album?? Really??? Honestly, I don't think he's turned in three songs of as high caliber as Go Your Own Way, Never Going Back Again, and Second Hand News, three classics which have held up over time and feature stunning guitar work.

My view of Tango in the Night: fantastic instrumentation from Lindsey. The guitar work all-around is incredible, even on Seven Wonders and Isn't It Midnight. Big Love was his hit song. I love his musicianship on Tango and the Night and Family Man. But his lyrics on the other hand... BARF

I've written in the Say You Will thread about my thoughts on Lindsey's overproduction on a few songs, how he took the life out of Bleed To Love Her and Say Goodbye, how the band really should've learned from prior decisions (the reception of Tusk) and went for a more focused 10- or 11-track work.

Tusk is really Lindsey's baby. So I cannot not vote for that album, though I do think his experimentations are not always successful and I'm slightly bothered when he is labeled as the only true 'artist' of the band. I love what he did with the singular song Tusk (how great it worked in the TV series The Americans when stripped to its essence speaks to its tremendous groove and rhythmic power), The Ledge in capturing a different sound for the band, and What Makes You Think You're The One for his vocal ferocity. His production skills on Stevie's songs are probably at an all-time high as well: Sara is gorgeous and Beautiful Child one of the greatest (and most under-appreciated) Rock ballads.

So my vote actually matches how I feel about Stevie's best Fleetwood Mac work: Rumours and Tusk.

Though I know some of you may view it as the easy choice, I'm shocked more people haven't voted for Rumours. Has Lindsey ever really surpassed his work on that album?? Really???

Absolutely, yes.

Rumours has Lindsey offering absolutely perfect pop songs, but that isn't really what we're discussing here. And I'm thrilled more people than expected are recognizing the sheer creativity and passion he displays on Say You Will.

Although Tusk is a pop masterpiece in it's own right, I think I would do his work on '75 and Rumours a great disservice by not recognizing that his work is the dictionary definition of classic rock while Tusk is more of a "cult classic". When you put on the '75 album and are immediately treated to Lindsey's voice "Monday morning you sure look fine... it showcases a previously underappreciated talent in Mr Buckingham. Same with Blue Letter "when your day goes down, I won't be waitin' around for you". World Turning, although a partially "borrowed" song from Peter Green, the sounds he got out of his guitar are nothing short of brilliant. Ending with his show stopping masterpiece, which remains to this day in I'm so Afraid, heck he even recycled it a couple of times in Tango and This is the Time.

Rumours brought him into the stratosphere talent wise. Second Hand News like Monday Morning, is one of those songs you can listen to again and again and it never grows stale. His musicianship in Never Going Back Again in its various incarnations again showcase his unmatchable talent. Go Your Own Way is Lindsey's career defining song, he has never not played it live and the temptation to turn it up really loud will never fade. Lastly, what Lindsey did with the Chain, he has never quite captured since and probably could have out of the more brilliant pieces of Stevie Nicks demos that we know exist, and the musical pieces he's written, especially in the late career trilogy of brilliant solo albums.

Other albums, especially Tusk, have other examples of Lindsey's brilliance, but he changed the course of his career in 1979 and decided not to make the classic sound again. His work has been stellar, but none of it is as good as these two first Fleetwood Mac albums. Part of me wishes he had kept to that meticulous way of writing, arranging and recording music. I think I read recently where Ken Calliat wanted to take Tusk into more of a musically perfect album than Rumours and with the quality of songs on the album, I can't help but wonder how they would have sounded if that direction had been taken.

Although Tusk is a pop masterpiece in it's own right, I think I would do his work on '75 and Rumours a great disservice by not recognizing that his work is the dictionary definition of classic rock while Tusk is more of a "cult classic". When you put on the '75 album and are immediately treated to Lindsey's voice "Monday morning you sure look fine... it showcases a previously underappreciated talent in Mr Buckingham. Same with Blue Letter "when your day goes down, I won't be waitin' around for you". World Turning, although a partially "borrowed" song from Peter Green, the sounds he got out of his guitar are nothing short of brilliant. Ending with his show stopping masterpiece, which remains to this day in I'm so Afraid, heck he even recycled it a couple of times in Tango and This is the Time.

Rumours brought him into the stratosphere talent wise. Second Hand News like Monday Morning, is one of those songs you can listen to again and again and it never grows stale. His musicianship in Never Going Back Again in its various incarnations again showcase his unmatchable talent. Go Your Own Way is Lindsey's career defining song, he has never not played it live and the temptation to turn it up really loud will never fade. Lastly, what Lindsey did with the Chain, he has never quite captured since and probably could have out of the more brilliant pieces of Stevie Nicks demos that we know exist, and the musical pieces he's written, especially in the late career trilogy of brilliant solo albums.

Other albums, especially Tusk, have other examples of Lindsey's brilliance, but he changed the course of his career in 1979 and decided not to make the classic sound again. His work has been stellar, but none of it is as good as these two first Fleetwood Mac albums. Part of me wishes he had kept to that meticulous way of writing, arranging and recording music. I think I read recently where Ken Calliat wanted to take Tusk into more of a musically perfect album than Rumours and with the quality of songs on the album, I can't help but wonder how they would have sounded if that direction had been taken.

Brilliant defense of 75 and Rumours. Add Come to the list of ISA-redeux.

Rumours has Lindsey offering absolutely perfect pop songs, but that isn't really what we're discussing here. And I'm thrilled more people than expected are recognizing the sheer creativity and passion he displays on Say You Will.

You know, that is the same reason people have given to Dreams not being one of Stevie's best songs, saying it's a perfect pop song but not representative of Stevie's best work. I think that sentiment is rooted in the fact that it is played so often it now seems stale, not fresh or alive anymore. As I've argued that that studio recording perhaps captures the three voices of the lead singers together better than any other song while also giving a nod to the earlier blues roots of the band, I have to also disagree with regard to Lindsey's songs. I don't want to reduce them down to whether they're pop or rock and roll or artistically successful or whatever, they are great songs and there is a reason they continue to be played today. I'm glad OnIce mentioned The Chain, which I forgot. Lindsey's guitar work on that song is notable and is as important to the searing power of the record as Stevie's lyrics. I welcome that Go Your Own Way, The Chain, Never Going Back Again, and Second Hand News are considered rock classics and I see them as among his best work, even if it's not considered the cool choice. While Lindsey wanted to separate himself from that sound and not limit himself, he wasn't always successful in subsequent albums, including Tusk. And I think Say You Will, though it may have some of his best songs in years, also demonstrates some of the drawbacks of Lindsey's vision when not balanced by other members in the band.

Quote:

Originally Posted by On Ice

Although Tusk is a pop masterpiece in it's own right, I think I would do his work on '75 and Rumours a great disservice by not recognizing that his work is the dictionary definition of classic rock while Tusk is more of a "cult classic". When you put on the '75 album and are immediately treated to Lindsey's voice "Monday morning you sure look fine... it showcases a previously underappreciated talent in Mr Buckingham. Same with Blue Letter "when your day goes down, I won't be waitin' around for you". World Turning, although a partially "borrowed" song from Peter Green, the sounds he got out of his guitar are nothing short of brilliant. Ending with his show stopping masterpiece, which remains to this day in I'm so Afraid, heck he even recycled it a couple of times in Tango and This is the Time.

This is an excellent argument for the inclusion of Fleetwood Mac Fleetwood Mac. Lindsey vocals are also in top shape on Crystal, and despite it being a Stevie song, I think his voice brings something to the song that she never could. Hmmm...Monday Morning, World Turning, I'm So Afraid (though more famous as a live performance than its studio version), Crystal, Blue Letter cover. He certainly came onto the scene big on this album, offering a strong contribution.

Lindsey vocals are also in top shape on Crystal, and despite it being a Stevie song, I think his voice brings something to the song that she never could.

How could I forget Crystal, shoot....

Absolutely the right decision for him to sing lead on Crystal, the album would've been perfect with the inclusion of one more Stevie Lead, Crystal wasn't the song. Sorcerer coulda shouda woulda been a show stopping Fleetwood Mac classic as her white album voice would've nailed the song into orbit and a good complement to Rhiannon as she was way under utilized on the album and that first tour.

I agree re: Stevie and I think we mentioned this in her respective albums thread, that she was underutilized on Fleetwood Mac Fleetwood Mac. I was wondering if the band made her give Crystal to Lindsey or if they were just sharpening the original recording from Buckingham Nicks. That was my same reasoning why I couldn't put that album among her two best, even with Landslide and Rhiannon.

And I'm thrilled more people than expected are recognizing the sheer creativity and passion he displays on Say You Will.

Tusk is the no-brainer top choice for me. For second place, I spent a lot of time going back and forth between Rumours and Say You Will. I've loved Rumours for almost 30 years. I think it's one of the greatest albums ever recorded (and overall a much better album than Say You Will). But in the end, I decided that Rumours has three absolutely stellar songs by Lindsey (Second Hand News, Never Going Back Again and Go Your Own Way) and that's all. (I don't count The Chain as a Lindsey song.) Say You Will also has three stellar songs by Lindsey (Red Rover, Bleed to Love Her and Say Goodbye) plus some very good songs in What's The World Coming To, Peacekeeper and Steal Your Heart Away, as well as some work that took major risks (Come), which is something that Rumours, as amazing as it is, really didn't do. So I very narrowly voted for SYW over Rumours as my number two.

Tusk is the no-brainer top choice for me. For second place, I spent a lot of time going back and forth between Rumours and Say You Will. I've loved Rumours for almost 30 years. I think it's one of the greatest albums ever recorded (and overall a much better album than Say You Will). But in the end, I decided that Rumours has three absolutely stellar songs by Lindsey (Second Hand News, Never Going Back Again and Go Your Own Way) and that's all. (I don't count The Chain as a Lindsey song.) Say You Will also has three stellar songs by Lindsey (Red Rover, Bleed to Love Her and Say Goodbye) plus some very good songs in What's The World Coming To, Peacekeeper and Steal Your Heart Away, as well as some work that took major risks (Come), which is something that Rumours, as amazing as it is, really didn't do. So I very narrowly voted for SYW over Rumours as my number two.

Also, I forgot to mention another point in favor of SYW: Though it's not part of the "official" album sequence, there's the beautiful version of Dylan's "Love Minus Zero/No Limit" on the deluxe edition, which I adore.

Rumours has Lindsey offering absolutely perfect pop songs, but that isn't really what we're discussing here. And I'm thrilled more people than expected are recognizing the sheer creativity and passion he displays on Say You Will.

absolutely!

Quote:

Originally Posted by On Ice

Although Tusk is a pop masterpiece in it's own right, I think I would do his work on '75 and Rumours a great disservice by not recognizing that his work is the dictionary definition of classic rock while Tusk is more of a "cult classic". When you put on the '75 album and are immediately treated to Lindsey's voice "Monday morning you sure look fine... it showcases a previously underappreciated talent in Mr Buckingham. Same with Blue Letter "when your day goes down, I won't be waitin' around for you". World Turning, although a partially "borrowed" song from Peter Green, the sounds he got out of his guitar are nothing short of brilliant. Ending with his show stopping masterpiece, which remains to this day in I'm so Afraid, heck he even recycled it a couple of times in Tango and This is the Time.

Rumours brought him into the stratosphere talent wise. Second Hand News like Monday Morning, is one of those songs you can listen to again and again and it never grows stale. His musicianship in Never Going Back Again in its various incarnations again showcase his unmatchable talent. Go Your Own Way is Lindsey's career defining song, he has never not played it live and the temptation to turn it up really loud will never fade. Lastly, what Lindsey did with the Chain, he has never quite captured since and probably could have out of the more brilliant pieces of Stevie Nicks demos that we know exist, and the musical pieces he's written, especially in the late career trilogy of brilliant solo albums.

some great thoughts here, and i generally agree with most of them.

however, he was not nearly as prolific as a songwriter during that time, as he became later in his career. maybe he was still getting into the whole songwriting thing? (that apparently Stevie has dragged him into kicking and screaming during BN era), and he created these gems you mention, but there were only few of them. during Tusk era, he really blossomed as a songwriter. i wonder whether he considered himself mostly guitarist, singer, arranger, producer before Tusk time? and after putting together all these brilliant songs on FM and Rumours, finally figured out songwriting works well for him as an outlet, and he really is a brilliant songwriter too?

Quote:

Originally Posted by KenB

Tusk is the no-brainer top choice for me. For second place, I spent a lot of time going back and forth between Rumours and Say You Will. I've loved Rumours for almost 30 years. I think it's one of the greatest albums ever recorded (and overall a much better album than Say You Will). But in the end, I decided that Rumours has three absolutely stellar songs by Lindsey (Second Hand News, Never Going Back Again and Go Your Own Way) and that's all. (I don't count The Chain as a Lindsey song.) Say You Will also has three stellar songs by Lindsey (Red Rover, Bleed to Love Her and Say Goodbye) plus some very good songs in What's The World Coming To, Peacekeeper and Steal Your Heart Away, as well as some work that took major risks (Come), which is something that Rumours, as amazing as it is, really didn't do. So I very narrowly voted for SYW over Rumours as my number two.

i like your analysis. a lot. although i would maybe count some different SYW as stellar Lindsey songs (Murrow, Red Rover, BTLH, definitely Peacekeeper lyrics... and i would add the whole GOS1 because that was really the same hugely prolific, brilliant, and out-of-boundaries songwriting period for Lindsey).

Quote:

Originally Posted by KenB

Also, I forgot to mention another point in favor of SYW: Though it's not part of the "official" album sequence, there's the beautiful version of Dylan's "Love Minus Zero/No Limit" on the deluxe edition, which I adore.

i can't express how much i love his version, how beautifully he sings it, and how much he added with those so-lindsey guitar parts. <3

however, he was not nearly as prolific as a songwriter during that time, as he became later in his career. maybe he was still getting into the whole songwriting thing? (that apparently Stevie has dragged him into kicking and screaming during BN era), and he created these gems you mention, but there were only few of them. during Tusk era, he really blossomed as a songwriter. i wonder whether he considered himself mostly guitarist, singer, arranger, producer before Tusk time? and after putting together all these brilliant songs on FM and Rumours, finally figured out songwriting works well for him as an outlet, and he really is a brilliant songwriter too?

That's a really good point about Lindsey's songwriting, after Rumours he really seemed to go into high productivity with creating new music. When I think of the early 90's and how good Stevie sounded just around the time of the end of the Mask and Lindsey's stunning Out of The Cradle not to mention Christine being in a prolific period, we could have had another masterpiece of a Mac album, sadly it wasn't to be.

Fortunately for us, Lindsey found that second wind and has put together some of the best music of his career in the last 6 years. The most important factor I think is that he finally found that balance between experimentation and maintaining that appeal for the listener. I'm also a big Say You Will fan and think he did a fine job throughout. All that said, I'm still drawn back to '75 and Rumours, it can't be topped to these ears.