If you wait before investing in ADSB-out equipment (or some other form of EC) then you are really part of the problem you're complaining about.

It is not that easy. There is a reason why the US decided to go on a second frequency for UAT and the UK launched the test bed. My bet, if we all go ADS-B-Out on 1090 and that is the only viable option for flying across Europe now, we see exactly the congestion the US feared.

By Bealeyman - 2/13/2019 8:19:39 PM

Tim, thanks for your response.

I have been using a Zaon MRX PCAS for six years in a PA28 averaging 100hr per year mostly VFR but with some IMC. This device gives nearest transponder mode C/S within 5nm and +/- 1000 ft but no Azimuth. However one can keep an eye on range/ALT changing and figure out the threat. Radar or TCAS has to be interrogating, so the transponders reply and the Zaon device picks this up.

I have found it very useful. I read all the Airprox reports and time after time they say both aircraft equipped with mode c/s but

nobody was carrying a detector.

Sadly my detector has just gone u/s.

There are a lot of transponder equipped GA aircraft out there and it immediately feels uncomfortable not to have the device.

SE2+SD with this basic feature would be a very good idea and of course there would be the other traffic warnings from

ADSB and Flarm.

Some might think not having Azimuth is a serious drawback but I bet they have never used a range/ALT device over a

long time as I have.

I trust you are right about the long term but a SE2 would be ordered tomorrow if you said you would fix my problem and I

would not worry if you were going to collect an extra £ 30 per year from me just for the mode c/s traffic info!

I have been using a Zaon MRX PCAS for six years in a PA28 averaging 100hr per year mostly VFR but with some IMC. This device gives nearest transponder mode C/S within 5nm and +/- 1000 ft but no Azimuth. However one can keep an eye on range/ALT changing and figure out the threat. Radar or TCAS has to be interrogating, so the transponders reply and the Zaon device picks this up.

I have found it very useful. I read all the Airprox reports and time after time they say both aircraft equipped with mode c/s but

nobody was carrying a detector.

Sadly my detector has just gone u/s.

There are a lot of transponder equipped GA aircraft out there and it immediately feels uncomfortable not to have the device.

SE2+SD with this basic feature would be a very good idea and of course there would be the other traffic warnings from

ADSB and Flarm.

Some might think not having Azimuth is a serious drawback but I bet they have never used a range/ALT device over a

long time as I have.

I trust you are right about the long term but a SE2 would be ordered tomorrow if you said you would fix my problem and I

would not worry if you were going to collect an extra £ 30 per year from me just for the mode c/s traffic info!

Keep up the good work

You could simply replace the Zaon by a Monroy with directional antenna and even ARINC429 if wished, would give the same, but with the same increased uncertainty on distance.

By frederic - 3/20/2019 10:25:06 AM

Thank you to all of you.

I am not transponding A-DSB. The famous 2 wires are not connected. We will do that at the next time the airplane will go to the worshop.

I think I will buy a PilotAware. For the costs, I find it interesting. So I will no more be part of the problem.

By Tim Dawson - 4/1/2019 12:08:54 PM

I can think of no faster way of ruining our verbal traffic information feature than making it read out all the bearingless targets in the area.

It is a well-accepted tenet of human interface guidelines that when you start telling users too much information, many will find it annoying and mentally tune it out, or worse, disable the feature altogether as being something that just gives useless information.

By Bealeyman - 4/1/2019 2:46:00 PM

fredericSee my posts above. Decided about a month ago to purchase PilotAware ‘Rosetta’ as this device can see more aircraft than any other piece of kit. There are already a surprising number of aircraft with a GPS position indicated and of course this will inevitably increase.So why not get yourself PW and see what is out there, I am upgrading my transponder to ‘ADS-B’ out so then you will see me if we cross tracks. REMEMBER always for VFR flying the mark 1 eyeball system is the premier look out device.Phil

By cibble10 - 5/26/2019 5:05:39 PM

I would suggest that less than a 1/5th of aviation traffic has ADS-B out here in the UK (see the FlightRadar24 stats). I have two traffic systems in my 1979 C182. A TRX-1500 which provides for FLARM and ADS-B detection and presentation, and also Mode C/S proximity warning, but all on the tiny Garmin 650 display. I have an I-pad mini running SD fed by the Sky Echo 2 which provides for a much better presentation of ADS-B traffic on (the larger) screen but no FLARM (separate fee which I don't seem to need on my TRX-1500) and no Mode C/S warning. As a result I would not recommend purchasing the Sky Echo 2 unless the connected software is capable of making use of Mode C/S information and providing some sort of warning.

Personally I wish ADS-B was made compulsory in the UK as cockpit solutions for traffic detection would only cost a few hundred pounds. That same solution can provide for transmission too. My major concern when flying is not seeing traffic on a collision course. Mark 1 eye ball cannot see in all directions/heights at all times. How often do you look for an aircraft when told where to look and still struggle to pick it out? What about IMC?

Currently my TRIG-21 transmits Mode S/ADS-B out and the TRX-1500 FLARM. I hope I can be seen by everyone but would like to see everyone too...

By frederic - 6/27/2019 8:18:26 AM

More than 80% or 90´% of visible traffic, is it utopian?

Today about 10% to 20% of traffic is visible via ADS-B. However, I am convinced that this score could very easily be increased.Indeed, I chatted with 5 owners of Microlight and all 5 have an ADS-B compatible mode S transponder. Unfortunately, they do not have a GPS connected to the transponder, so it does not transmit this information. The reason, the ignorance of what this does and can help us.

I am convinced, at least for Western Europe, that for a cost of less than 300 €, we could see more than 80% of the traffic. Indeed, all aircraft in Europe must be equipped with a Mode S transponder and the majority of them are ADS-B compatible. But the pilots do not know it

It would be enough to connect a compatible GPS to the transponder. And there too, many aircraft are already equipped with such a GPS. A visit to the workshop to make this connection should not be expensive, usually less than an hour of work.

I think we need to advertise ADS-B to make it known.

By tnowak - 6/28/2019 6:41:43 AM

Frederic,

I agree. I have a non-certified GPS connected to my Trig TT21 transponder. I did the wiring myself and the GPS mouse cost around EUR 60. However my vintage aircraft is on a UK Permit to Fly and our aviation regulator, the CAA, has promoted and supports this technology.

Unfortunately, for certified aircraft in EASA land, it may not be so easy/cheap to implement.

Maybe the National aviation regulators in other European countries need to ease the regulations and promote the technology a bit better?

Tony

By frederic - 4/5/2019 5:14:54 AM

High Bealeyman

I already asked the workshop to connect my GPS to the Transponder TRIG TT21. Normally, it will be done during next week. So I'll broadcast ADS-B.

I'm also trying to convince my co-owners to buy a Rosetta PilotAware and your mail will certainly help. For less than 300€, I'm sure it will be done quickly.

By frederic - 2/9/2019 6:10:51 AM

Hi evrybody,

I tried to find the answer in the forum, but I have not foud.

Question to those who are equipped with a "traffic and collision avoidance" item, what is the percentage of General Aviation aircrafts in Europe that emit in ADS-B out... and so that we could see with SkyDemon (with Pilotaware for ex.)?

If the percentage is big, then I'll buy a Pilotaware quickly, otherwise it's probably not worth it.

I am not sure that the workshop has connected my Garmin GPS to the Trig TT21 transponder. I suppose yes.

I will fly tomorrow and will take the opportunity to try to configure the transponder (GPS type, speed transfer..). I will be able to check it by displaying the ADS-B Monitor (see Tony's message).

About FR24, I understood that the signals were intercepted on the ground by a network of "private volunteers" with as main material the reading of ADS-B signals. Some of then are also equipped to receive the C / S transponder but are less numerous.

I thought it was because of this reason that I do not always see my aircraft in FR24 but sometimes only short portions of my flights ... and always at the same places. But I am not an expert on FR24 and I can, of course, be wrong

Many thanks for your help.

You can easily check whether FR24 receives your position by ADS-B or has calculated it by multilateration.

Click on an aircraft symbol and the aircraft details will be displayed, at the bottom of this stack you will find:

where the position is received from the transponder itself, or:

where the position is not retrieved from the transponder, but by multilateration (MLAT) calculation.

The first ADS-B transponders were not able to transmit the position by 'extended squitter' (ES), many aircraft owners has changed their old transponder by a Garmin transponder without ES. In the same period, newcomers like TRIG, Garrecht or FUNKE where putting the first ADS-B wit ES on the European GA market. But almost no aircraft owner realizes the purpose of ES and neglected to connect the ES capable transponder to their (approved) GPS. Since years you can upgrade your 'old' Garmin transponder into a ES capable transponder. Many aircraft are ready to transmit their position, but it takes 2 wires between the GPS and ES capable transponder (and a sign...)

I remember when I switched XPDR, these two wires were 10 cents in parts, 5,000 Euro to upgrade to WAAS GPS and 2,000 Euro for sole paperworks, so I stayed unconnected and non-WAAS. Btw, what happened to the initiative allowing certified non-WAAS GPS sources, silent death?

Attaching a non-certified position source to an ES transponder has been permitted for some time in the UK for non-EASA aircraft.

IN my (EASA) AA5 I've just had my GNS430W (legally ) attached to my Trig TT31 for ADSB-out via the no-cost Trig STC and signed off under CS-STAN. The whole cost was peanuts (given I already had a GNS430W).

Upgrading to WAAS for the sole reason of ADS-B out just seemed over the top to me. I know of the UK special way of uncertified sources, but also know of the several complaints of airliner pilots, disabling the annunciation of these targets = no real use for that. I wonder what will happen to this UK speciality after Brexit.

I am not sure that the workshop has connected my Garmin GPS to the Trig TT21 transponder. I suppose yes.

I will fly tomorrow and will take the opportunity to try to configure the transponder (GPS type, speed transfer..). I will be able to check it by displaying the ADS-B Monitor (see Tony's message).

About FR24, I understood that the signals were intercepted on the ground by a network of "private volunteers" with as main material the reading of ADS-B signals. Some of then are also equipped to receive the C / S transponder but are less numerous.

I thought it was because of this reason that I do not always see my aircraft in FR24 but sometimes only short portions of my flights ... and always at the same places. But I am not an expert on FR24 and I can, of course, be wrong

Many thanks for your help.

You can easily check whether FR24 receives your position by ADS-B or has calculated it by multilateration.

Click on an aircraft symbol and the aircraft details will be displayed, at the bottom of this stack you will find:

where the position is received from the transponder itself, or:

where the position is not retrieved from the transponder, but by multilateration (MLAT) calculation.

The first ADS-B transponders were not able to transmit the position by 'extended squitter' (ES), many aircraft owners has changed their old transponder by a Garmin transponder without ES. In the same period, newcomers like TRIG, Garrecht or FUNKE where putting the first ADS-B wit ES on the European GA market. But almost no aircraft owner realizes the purpose of ES and neglected to connect the ES capable transponder to their (approved) GPS. Since years you can upgrade your 'old' Garmin transponder into a ES capable transponder. Many aircraft are ready to transmit their position, but it takes 2 wires between the GPS and ES capable transponder (and a sign...)

I remember when I switched XPDR, these two wires were 10 cents in parts, 5,000 Euro to upgrade to WAAS GPS and 2,000 Euro for sole paperworks, so I stayed unconnected and non-WAAS. Btw, what happened to the initiative allowing certified non-WAAS GPS sources, silent death?

Attaching a non-certified position source to an ES transponder has been permitted for some time in the UK for non-EASA aircraft.

IN my (EASA) AA5 I've just had my GNS430W (legally ) attached to my Trig TT31 for ADSB-out via the no-cost Trig STC and signed off under CS-STAN. The whole cost was peanuts (given I already had a GNS430W).

Upgrading to WAAS for the sole reason of ADS-B out just seemed over the top to me. I know of the UK special way of uncertified sources, but also know of the several complaints of airliner pilots, disabling the annunciation of these targets = no real use for that. I wonder what will happen to this UK speciality after Brexit.

It won't just be a 'UK special' way after a month or so, as EASA have just announced that the revised CS-STAN for ADS-B via a Mode S will be issued imminently. It allows three flavours - with certified position source, with a TABS device, and with a non-certified source. It defines the SIL and SDA values to be used in each case. That's also the your answer to your final question, whatever happens as a consequence of Brexit, as far as EASA types are concerned. For UK regulated non-EASA types, I assume the status quo will continue.

I am not sure that the workshop has connected my Garmin GPS to the Trig TT21 transponder. I suppose yes.

I will fly tomorrow and will take the opportunity to try to configure the transponder (GPS type, speed transfer..). I will be able to check it by displaying the ADS-B Monitor (see Tony's message).

About FR24, I understood that the signals were intercepted on the ground by a network of "private volunteers" with as main material the reading of ADS-B signals. Some of then are also equipped to receive the C / S transponder but are less numerous.

I thought it was because of this reason that I do not always see my aircraft in FR24 but sometimes only short portions of my flights ... and always at the same places. But I am not an expert on FR24 and I can, of course, be wrong

Many thanks for your help.

You can easily check whether FR24 receives your position by ADS-B or has calculated it by multilateration.

Click on an aircraft symbol and the aircraft details will be displayed, at the bottom of this stack you will find:

where the position is received from the transponder itself, or:

where the position is not retrieved from the transponder, but by multilateration (MLAT) calculation.

The first ADS-B transponders were not able to transmit the position by 'extended squitter' (ES), many aircraft owners has changed their old transponder by a Garmin transponder without ES. In the same period, newcomers like TRIG, Garrecht or FUNKE where putting the first ADS-B wit ES on the European GA market. But almost no aircraft owner realizes the purpose of ES and neglected to connect the ES capable transponder to their (approved) GPS. Since years you can upgrade your 'old' Garmin transponder into a ES capable transponder. Many aircraft are ready to transmit their position, but it takes 2 wires between the GPS and ES capable transponder (and a sign...)

I remember when I switched XPDR, these two wires were 10 cents in parts, 5,000 Euro to upgrade to WAAS GPS and 2,000 Euro for sole paperworks, so I stayed unconnected and non-WAAS. Btw, what happened to the initiative allowing certified non-WAAS GPS sources, silent death?

Attaching a non-certified position source to an ES transponder has been permitted for some time in the UK for non-EASA aircraft.

IN my (EASA) AA5 I've just had my GNS430W (legally ) attached to my Trig TT31 for ADSB-out via the no-cost Trig STC and signed off under CS-STAN. The whole cost was peanuts (given I already had a GNS430W).

Upgrading to WAAS for the sole reason of ADS-B out just seemed over the top to me. I know of the UK special way of uncertified sources, but also know of the several complaints of airliner pilots, disabling the annunciation of these targets = no real use for that. I wonder what will happen to this UK speciality after Brexit.

It won't just be a 'UK special' way after a month or so, as EASA have just announced that the revised CS-STAN for ADS-B via a Mode S will be issued imminently. It allows three flavours - with certified position source, with a TABS device, and with a non-certified source. It defines the SIL and SDA values to be used in each case. That's also the your answer to your final question, whatever happens as a consequence of Brexit, as far as EASA types are concerned. For UK regulated non-EASA types, I assume the status quo will continue.

Thanks for pointing to the upcoming Amendment 3 to CS-STAN, I did miss that one. Looks like they are finally going to legalize the non-certified GNSS source, which is fine. So I may plan to do the wire soon.

I have been using a Zaon MRX PCAS for six years in a PA28 averaging 100hr per year mostly VFR but with some IMC. This device gives nearest transponder mode C/S within 5nm and +/- 1000 ft but no Azimuth. However one can keep an eye on range/ALT changing and figure out the threat. Radar or TCAS has to be interrogating, so the transponders reply and the Zaon device picks this up.

I have found it very useful. I read all the Airprox reports and time after time they say both aircraft equipped with mode c/s but

nobody was carrying a detector.

Sadly my detector has just gone u/s.

There are a lot of transponder equipped GA aircraft out there and it immediately feels uncomfortable not to have the device.

SE2+SD with this basic feature would be a very good idea and of course there would be the other traffic warnings from

ADSB and Flarm.

Some might think not having Azimuth is a serious drawback but I bet they have never used a range/ALT device over a

long time as I have.

I trust you are right about the long term but a SE2 would be ordered tomorrow if you said you would fix my problem and I

would not worry if you were going to collect an extra £ 30 per year from me just for the mode c/s traffic info!

Keep up the good work

You could simply replace the Zaon by a Monroy with directional antenna and even ARINC429 if wished, would give the same, but with the same increased uncertainty on distance.

Thanks for the suggestion Markus, but still hoping TD will help out.

By Tim Dawson - 2/15/2019 12:01:20 PM

Me? What are you after?

By Bealeyman - 2/16/2019 7:56:20 PM

Bearingless Targets is an option in SD (see Nav options) - what are these and why is there an objection to showing

SE2 Bearingless Mode c/s Targets?

By GEAR - 2/16/2019 9:13:23 PM

Bearing less targets are contacts from mode C/S transponders. Their altitude is known but their position (ie direction and range) is unknown since mode C/S does not provide position information.

Many thanks everybody for your messages. I think this subject is verry interesting even it wil never replace the eyes. But every help is welkom.

I'm currently trying to configue my Trig TT21 to broadcast ADS-B out. Then I will probably investigate to buy the most appropriate ADS-B in compatible with SkyDemon.

If I understood correctly, one tips to verify that my transponder broadcasts ADS-B out is to go on flightradar24. If I see my plane, it's because it's broadcasting in ADS-B out.

Frederic,

I have a TT21 and have connected an uncertified GPS mouse to it to produce the ADS-B out capability. Yes, FR 24 is good for checking as is Planefinder. Your Trig TT21 also has a feature where it displays your current Lat, Lon and Ht on the display so you can verify your interface is working okay.

Many thanks everybody for your messages. I think this subject is verry interesting even it wil never replace the eyes. But every help is welkom.

I'm currently trying to configue my Trig TT21 to broadcast ADS-B out. Then I will probably investigate to buy the most appropriate ADS-B in compatible with SkyDemon.

If I understood correctly, one tips to verify that my transponder broadcasts ADS-B out is to go on flightradar24. If I see my plane, it's because it's broadcasting in ADS-B out.

Frederic,

I have a TT21 and have connected an uncertified GPS mouse to it to produce the ADS-B out capability. Yes, FR 24 is good for checking as is Planefinder. Your Trig TT21 also has a feature where it displays your current Lat, Lon and Ht on the display so you can verify your interface is working okay.

Tony

Is enabling ADS-B out with an uncertified GPS legal? Even if, you are contributing to 1090 congestion without being visible to the airliners. Just a short comment.

By Sky Painter - 2/19/2019 2:32:06 PM

Just because an aircraft shows up on FR24 does not necessarily mean that it is equipped with ADS-B Out. FR24 can display aircraft with Mode S and no ADS-B Out, and aircraft with Mode A/C only, using a technology known as multilateration (MLAT) and ground based receivers.

By frederic - 2/19/2019 8:21:33 PM

Tony, Markus, Mike,

Many thanks to all of you.

I am not sure that the workshop has connected my Garmin GPS to the Trig TT21 transponder. I suppose yes.

I will fly tomorrow and will take the opportunity to try to configure the transponder (GPS type, speed transfer..). I will be able to check it by displaying the ADS-B Monitor (see Tony's message).

About FR24, I understood that the signals were intercepted on the ground by a network of "private volunteers" with as main material the reading of ADS-B signals. Some of then are also equipped to receive the C / S transponder but are less numerous.

I thought it was because of this reason that I do not always see my aircraft in FR24 but sometimes only short portions of my flights ... and always at the same places. But I am not an expert on FR24 and I can, of course, be wrong

I am not sure that the workshop has connected my Garmin GPS to the Trig TT21 transponder. I suppose yes.

I will fly tomorrow and will take the opportunity to try to configure the transponder (GPS type, speed transfer..). I will be able to check it by displaying the ADS-B Monitor (see Tony's message).

About FR24, I understood that the signals were intercepted on the ground by a network of "private volunteers" with as main material the reading of ADS-B signals. Some of then are also equipped to receive the C / S transponder but are less numerous.

I thought it was because of this reason that I do not always see my aircraft in FR24 but sometimes only short portions of my flights ... and always at the same places. But I am not an expert on FR24 and I can, of course, be wrong

Many thanks for your help.

You can easily check whether FR24 receives your position by ADS-B or has calculated it by multilateration.

Click on an aircraft symbol and the aircraft details will be displayed, at the bottom of this stack you will find:

where the position is received from the transponder itself, or:

where the position is not retrieved from the transponder, but by multilateration (MLAT) calculation.

The first ADS-B transponders were not able to transmit the position by 'extended squitter' (ES), many aircraft owners has changed their old transponder by a Garmin transponder without ES. In the same period, newcomers like TRIG, Garrecht or FUNKE where putting the first ADS-B wit ES on the European GA market. But almost no aircraft owner realizes the purpose of ES and neglected to connect the ES capable transponder to their (approved) GPS. Since years you can upgrade your 'old' Garmin transponder into a ES capable transponder. Many aircraft are ready to transmit their position, but it takes 2 wires between the GPS and ES capable transponder (and a sign...)

I am not sure that the workshop has connected my Garmin GPS to the Trig TT21 transponder. I suppose yes.

I will fly tomorrow and will take the opportunity to try to configure the transponder (GPS type, speed transfer..). I will be able to check it by displaying the ADS-B Monitor (see Tony's message).

About FR24, I understood that the signals were intercepted on the ground by a network of "private volunteers" with as main material the reading of ADS-B signals. Some of then are also equipped to receive the C / S transponder but are less numerous.

I thought it was because of this reason that I do not always see my aircraft in FR24 but sometimes only short portions of my flights ... and always at the same places. But I am not an expert on FR24 and I can, of course, be wrong

Many thanks for your help.

You can easily check whether FR24 receives your position by ADS-B or has calculated it by multilateration.

Click on an aircraft symbol and the aircraft details will be displayed, at the bottom of this stack you will find:

where the position is received from the transponder itself, or:

where the position is not retrieved from the transponder, but by multilateration (MLAT) calculation.

The first ADS-B transponders were not able to transmit the position by 'extended squitter' (ES), many aircraft owners has changed their old transponder by a Garmin transponder without ES. In the same period, newcomers like TRIG, Garrecht or FUNKE where putting the first ADS-B wit ES on the European GA market. But almost no aircraft owner realizes the purpose of ES and neglected to connect the ES capable transponder to their (approved) GPS. Since years you can upgrade your 'old' Garmin transponder into a ES capable transponder. Many aircraft are ready to transmit their position, but it takes 2 wires between the GPS and ES capable transponder (and a sign...)

I remember when I switched XPDR, these two wires were 10 cents in parts, 5,000 Euro to upgrade to WAAS GPS and 2,000 Euro for sole paperworks, so I stayed unconnected and non-WAAS. Btw, what happened to the initiative allowing certified non-WAAS GPS sources, silent death?

I am not sure that the workshop has connected my Garmin GPS to the Trig TT21 transponder. I suppose yes.

I will fly tomorrow and will take the opportunity to try to configure the transponder (GPS type, speed transfer..). I will be able to check it by displaying the ADS-B Monitor (see Tony's message).

About FR24, I understood that the signals were intercepted on the ground by a network of "private volunteers" with as main material the reading of ADS-B signals. Some of then are also equipped to receive the C / S transponder but are less numerous.

I thought it was because of this reason that I do not always see my aircraft in FR24 but sometimes only short portions of my flights ... and always at the same places. But I am not an expert on FR24 and I can, of course, be wrong

Many thanks for your help.

You can easily check whether FR24 receives your position by ADS-B or has calculated it by multilateration.

Click on an aircraft symbol and the aircraft details will be displayed, at the bottom of this stack you will find:

where the position is received from the transponder itself, or:

where the position is not retrieved from the transponder, but by multilateration (MLAT) calculation.

The first ADS-B transponders were not able to transmit the position by 'extended squitter' (ES), many aircraft owners has changed their old transponder by a Garmin transponder without ES. In the same period, newcomers like TRIG, Garrecht or FUNKE where putting the first ADS-B wit ES on the European GA market. But almost no aircraft owner realizes the purpose of ES and neglected to connect the ES capable transponder to their (approved) GPS. Since years you can upgrade your 'old' Garmin transponder into a ES capable transponder. Many aircraft are ready to transmit their position, but it takes 2 wires between the GPS and ES capable transponder (and a sign...)

I remember when I switched XPDR, these two wires were 10 cents in parts, 5,000 Euro to upgrade to WAAS GPS and 2,000 Euro for sole paperworks, so I stayed unconnected and non-WAAS. Btw, what happened to the initiative allowing certified non-WAAS GPS sources, silent death?

Attaching a non-certified position source to an ES transponder has been permitted for some time in the UK for non-EASA aircraft.

IN my (EASA) AA5 I've just had my GNS430W (legally ) attached to my Trig TT31 for ADSB-out via the no-cost Trig STC and signed off under CS-STAN. The whole cost was peanuts (given I already had a GNS430W).

The SkyEcho 2 doesn't currently implement bearingless targets as we all know them from FLARM and PilotAware.

I understood the challenge of representing bearingless targets on a map screen. However, as many users have pointed out (on your FB page) at this stage the thread is equally from bearingless targets as it may be from proper ADS-B equipped targets.

I think your latest wonderful feature of spoken near-by traffic alerts could allow you to re-consider your position. It is easy to imagine how to include bearingless targets in a meaningful way in the spoken output, even if not displayed on the map.

(Users may opt to display bearingless targets on the screen only as "warning banners", while proper targets are depicted a aircraft symbols on the map...)

I can think of no faster way of ruining our verbal traffic information feature than making it read out all the bearingless targets in the area.

It is a well-accepted tenet of human interface guidelines that when you start telling users too much information, many will find it annoying and mentally tune it out, or worse, disable the feature altogether as being something that just gives useless information.

I have since set-up the PaW Rosetta with SD. Traffic Radar, voice traffic alert and the display of bearingless targets (on the map only) work very well. The filter settings do exactly as advertised, and only relevant traffic is shown/announced.

I agree that announcing all bearingless targets would be too much. As it stands, the odd traffic warning already competes in the audio channel with

- airspace and obstacle warning

- and radio traffic from one or two monitored frequencies

Suggestion: Can you pan the stereo image of the verbal alerts? Typically, the radios come in mono, i.e., dead centre. Readability could bee much improved if airspace warnings came slightly, say, from the left, and traffic warning slightly form the right. I'd venture that this would make a big difference.