Originally Posted by Cromfel:Well, that was the whole point of bi-directional communication. Let the community rank the artists and the critics. Just as the artist is stepping up publicly the people who critic must be put on the equal grounds. Let the peer review work on both ways so people can understand who actually provides valuable feedback. Close the loop and let the system work itself to a equilibrium.

Trolls and elitists will be filtering over time just naturally. "Star systems" and such without understanding who voted is irrelevant for the artist if its about actually getting feedback. Popularity contests are of completely different scope with thumbs and stars.

The thing is though, that the Showcase gallery was never about feedback, it was about, well showcasing. If people want critique, then the WIP forum has always been the place to post.

Personally I think we do need to bring back a star rating system. But I don't necessarily think that it should be accompanied automatically by a reply, but rather make the votes public, so if you click on a thread's star rating, you can see the list of who voted what. That'd cut down, hopefully, on people trolling and voting down threads out of spite.

Originally Posted by LuckyBug:Well good, so that's the only three deciding who will enter gallery or we have more ?

There have been different people on that panel at different times, depending on who was busy and who wasn't some have been there for most of its life, some swung in and out.
Personally I've never been on it because what time I can devote to the site I decided to employ otherwise.

I also agree, and have said so before repeatedly, that people having a go at Leigh are usually resentful and mis-informed in doing so, as she has put, and still puts, a ridiculous amount of hours into running this place without ever mentioning it. I think the effort she puts in easily amounts, in hours terms, to what the rest of the mods put in all together, or must be pretty damn near that if it's not.
That people are unaware only speaks for her modesty. That people don't appreciate it, well, we can change the website and how we present content and to who, not the mind of the people punching in the address in the browser

That said, sorry, but what's the point of having the names of who's been or hasn't been on the panel? It's a system that worked well, despite what people say, for quite a while, but has started declining in results, and has therefore been put on the side and is seeing the people who put the hours in on that putting the same hours elsewhere. Critiquing in WIP to make it a more alluring place, taking better care of the gallery, keeping the top row fresher and rotating faster and so on.

If you state that Leigh taking the blame is unjustified, what's the point, again, of putting more names in front of a mob that, if we're talking of the people that would happily lynch the panel, should, frankly speaking, go F*** themselves? The blame was unjustified to begin with, no matter who takes it.
The focus should be to keep moving on with times and trying to do constantly better, being willing to change, not on judging things in the past (which btw, again, did exactly what they were supposed to do and did so well for as long as that model held).

Drop the witch hunt and enjoy the artwork, or contribute to making the site better by visiting threads and commenting on the art you like, and ignoring those you don't, so that sorting threads by discussion/views and filtering by date already gives you a quality content snapshot instead of looking for someone to have a go at. The tools are all there already and have been there forever, bottom of the page
You can also hop your way around by thumbnails looking at the top of the gallery page if ordering threads is too much effort.

Originally Posted by ThE_JacO:...enjoy the artwork, or contribute to making the site better by visiting threads and commenting on the art you like, and ignoring those you don't, so that sorting threads by discussion/views and filtering by date already gives you a quality content snapshot .....

On a related note:
It's somewhat ironical, but likely to be something we take for granted in the backstage while the user base is not as acutely aware of it, that people are asking for more tools to affect judgement and to take responsibility.

The single most influential tool to steer content in a forum isn't a popularity vote, a moderator vote, some fancy wheight coming from an algorithm, or anything else similar to those.

The most overwhelming force you can apply to content is views and comments. You have had all along, and still have, the ability to greatly affect things as a user, and that's not by verbally assaulting the poor D-K sods posting a bryce landscape hoping to turn them away (lack of interest in their work will get rid of them at their second post more efficiently than engaging in a trolling session), it's by using the gallery which the silent majority of people (tens and hundreds of thousands) sort by bumps (replied to threads get bumped), views and replies.

As a user take a pro-active attitude to making the place better and it will become one. Start posting venom in some noobs' threads, and even with the best intentions, it will go to shit no matter what we do.

Food for thought while things get tweaked, you do have an impactful vote at hand if you really are a user willing to put your money where your mouth is and with an interest in the well being of this website.

Originally Posted by Hooch:Maybe bringing back the old star rating system(or something similar).
And in order to avoid thousands of fake users trying to cast a vote,
Only members with more than a year and with more than "x" number of post can have the privilege to vote.

Just an idea.

I agree with this from the point that, say, a poser rendering "could" bring in a wave of Renderosity.com poser fanboys to this site just to vote for the poser work while down voting quality works in order for the poser work to get top rating.

the time on site and/or number of post could help eliminate or at least reduce the fanboy voting
block. No one solution will win everyone over, maybe go with the star system as a test and see how it works out.

I do think it would be nice to at least filter out the poser images. I know art is art and some people really like those kinds of things, but what concerns me is the pure volume of those things out there.

I've already seen a few in the gallery from the past few days, and I think it could get a little out of control. Those things only take a few hours to make, and I'm worried about it really dragging down the quality of the gallery.

I've looked through the "shitty" renders and seen work that doesn't really belong, but the worst part in those threads are not the renders but your comments.

Please, keep it clean. Don let beef extend across forums, and if you find someone posting offensive comments report their posts so they are qued up for our attentions instead of having a go at them elsewhere.

it's been a while since i have really posted here though i do keep this page as mainly a book mark or my home page.

when i first started using this site it was during my days at school and it was pretty much the premier site to go to, but there was a big dropping off of a large amount of the posters.

there used to be tons and tons of people viewing the threads and now they have left and gone to places where they will get the attention or recognition.

yes there was alot of bad ones that left, but there was alot of good ones and they got ingored.

the reason is that when you did see people get praised it was the same people over and over there was no room for others. it is almosst like they jsut wanted to showcase nothing but the top, but people forget something.

each person here was jsut starting and doing the best they can, or you were in it just for certain reasons. no one started as a pro you had to learn and develope.

this was one of the major places to go for answers and for help, especially they saw who came here and who actually was on the site that brought it it's name.

so now this place is all about what? the best?

when i look at most of the galleries especially at the showcase galleries of th best art i see mainly art that was from years back, and most of the time from people that have left and do not really post anymore.

i am not saying to drop what yall have been doing and yes you need a gallery for the best of what art can be.

but what about the people who are not as good as the others but still do good work. you still have to filter through it and through out the usual poser and other static type, but one to show that even though you have some of the best you have some of the upcoming.

if yal want to keep just showing off the best then do so, it is your site. i am not singling out any one person but there has to be a point when people come off their high horse and realize.

if you start trying to have the forum people rate certain art then you will get the favorites or just certain art there. this is a hard task to deal with b/c it can either go good or take a plummit.

i love art from the bad to the good and when i see threads like this, it makes me sad.

people in this thread forgot alot of what it is to be an artist and the attitudes of some show it.

good doesn't mean you have to be cocky, i read some of the feedback of late and holy hell.

you can take what i say with a grain of salt i know some will, but thanks to the person that actually listens and thinks about what is said.

__________________
voices tellin me to get some sleep, but my imaginary friends want me to play.

Originally Posted by secretasianman:
the reason is that when you did see people get praised it was the same people over and over there was no room for others. it is almosst like they jsut wanted to showcase nothing but the top, but people forget something.

That is also true, hell even on the featured portfolio we can see same portfolios featured over and over again.
I also mentioned that last week one of the artworks wasn't even considered for the gallery this week he received award, so what I see is just a pure gamble here.

And why not, with star value Mods, is a good way to sift the good from the bad jobs, if someone does not agree with the grade you type your comments.
I think it's better than the previous system and of course this, where anything goes
is necessary to filter the bad jobs as did years ago, which says Leight of a classification system is not anonymous may be another great idea

You can order by rating, but eventually you'll get always the same images at the top.
It doesnt help on other sites, so why would it help here?

Looking at how much the overall quality of the gallery has declined in a few days time i fear indeed that the 'more experienced' artists will eventually decide to move on and go elsewhere.

Sure you'll get more clicks on the site by loosening the requirements like that but i hope for your sake you guys have thought this out carefully and found some new system so its not going to bite you in the end.

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