[12/20/2015 4:34:49 PM] Seraph Basarab: [3:22:58 PM] Moxich: they are a lot more capable than fcon and rzr

[3:23:03 PM] Seraph Basarab: This is true

[3:23:42 PM] Seraph Basarab: Ok so agreement as it stands. Co2 and OOS don't hit each others towers. Co2 does not show up to defend towers belonging to other cfc members. i'm talking with l0ser and nync

[3:28:52 PM] Moxich: We're okay with that

[3:28:54 PM] Moxich: generally

[3:29:09 PM] Moxich: but we want several days to check which poses are where

[3:29:22 PM] Moxich: so that they can have ones they got easy to defend

[12/20/2015 5:48:39 PM] Seraph Basarab: Ive spoken with him before, not specifically on this subject. However I have assets in place within Init that have felt around regarding their sentiments about the CFC. Their opinion is the same one you expressed.

[12/20/2015 5:57:03 PM] Da_Winci: pls keep me posted on how they would actually react when what we discussed becomes a reality

[12/20/2015 5:57:50 PM] Seraph Basarab: I can be a middle person between you two as well. Ill find out and then let him know that "someone else" in the same position as him feels like him

[12/20/2015 5:58:49 PM] Da_Winci: i'm quite sure he already knows

[12/21/2015 4:58:33 AM] Seraph Basarab: Here's another idea. Im thinking of having project mayhem focus on bastion in order to leave you guys alone but also make bastion more dependent on you rather than goons

[12/22/2015 4:46:18 PM] Seraph Basarab: So OOS is on board with the NAP regarding towers.

[12/23/2015 4:28:19 PM] Seraph Basarab: OOS leadership would like to hear your analysis of how you think such an agreement would benefit them.

[12/24/2015 7:50:34 AM] Da_Winci: short term no benefits I think. I'm sure the status quo provides them and us enough opportunities to hold moons and get content. Any agreement would not benefit us in the short term. Moons in Venal are mostly earmarked meaning that we won't ever hold excessive amounts of them.

[12/24/2015 7:52:56 AM] Da_Winci: Longer term the trend of less cohesion in the coalition will ultimately lead to alliances holding what they can hold/defend themselves. Again, that's not even a secret analysis... there is broad consensus on this.

[12/24/2015 7:55:44 AM] Da_Winci: OOS is quite capable of holding a large portion of valuable moons. With our without an agreement. And letting evolution take its course will lead to that situation. With or without an agreement.

[12/24/2015 7:57:08 AM] Da_Winci: So both them and us shouldnt be in any hurry - just not acting stupid and let nature take its course.

[12/24/2015 8:01:22 AM] Da_Winci: If we would go all out on OOS we could hurt them way more than they could ever hurt us. That is in no way a threat, it's a mere objective opinion. We have no intention of doing so, the situation as it is suits us fine. Mutual understanding that when shit hits the fan we could discuss "things" is enough for me right now

[12/24/2015 8:04:03 AM] Da_Winci: that said - time for Christmas festivities - talk later

[1/4/2016 12:26:41 AM] Seraph Basarab: Well PL's been active around you guys for sure....

[1/5/2016 3:07:36 PM] Seraph Basarab: What are your thoughts on the situation

[1/5/2016 3:37:06 PM] Seraph Basarab: Well that is what I would do anyway. Rather than just kill the alliance you want to absorb the members, like they did with bat country and anyone who distances themselves

[1/5/2016 3:37:45 PM] Da_Winci: that is underestimating our abiltiy to walk that fine line

[1/5/2016 3:38:43 PM] Da_Winci: getting them to join docile alliances is totally different

[1/5/2016 3:39:31 PM] Da_Winci: everyone is craving for some content - narrative and what not, we kinda provide just that

[1/5/2016 3:40:12 PM] Da_Winci: so losing those caps to PL didnt change that a single bit

[1/5/2016 3:41:48 PM] Seraph Basarab: It's funny I have maybe half a dozen directors/leaders in the cfc that dont like being under goons and everyone's kind of waiting for "the other guy" to start the revolution.

[1/5/2016 3:50:14 PM] Seraph Basarab: We are blazing SMA hard. Last night we bumped out 3 orcas 1 rorq and 1 charon with an SMA alt

[1/5/2016 3:50:18 PM] Seraph Basarab: got the whole corp kicked

[1/5/2016 3:51:14 PM] Da_Winci: SMA - I read the blogpost of those guys that left... spot on analysis

[1/5/2016 3:51:53 PM] Da_Winci: but they can afford to shed the low hanging fruit - they still have insane numbers

[1/5/2016 3:52:07 PM] Da_Winci: (tho shit doctrines to put them in)

[1/18/2016 11:29:20 AM] Da_Winci: Your article was good, but you are picking on the wrong alliance.

[1/18/2016 11:31:25 AM] Da_Winci: If anything, this will strengthen them in the belief that the cfc is their only (and last) resort. And seen their geographical position they have no alternative.

[1/18/2016 11:32:03 AM] Da_Winci: I think it's time for another conversation.

[1/18/2016 11:33:37 AM] Da_Winci: Why you think goons put them there? And how does having that enclave affect their thinking? Rhetorical questions ofc

[1/18/2016 1:42:16 PM] Seraph Basarab: Yeah i'm smacking them with one hand and then going to caress their face with the other.

[1/22/2016 4:21:56 PM] Seraph Basarab: What's new in your area

[1/22/2016 4:28:11 PM] Da_Winci: The usual shit. We trying to do our own thing, CD trying to get us on a leash :)

[1/22/2016 4:28:21 PM] Da_Winci: Same story different day

[1/22/2016 4:29:02 PM] Da_Winci: And like I said, more alliances realizing what we knew 2 years ago

[1/22/2016 4:30:10 PM] Da_Winci: Oh and trying to get our own guy in csm

[1/22/2016 4:30:41 PM] Da_Winci: Wassup on your side. I see you stepped up the coordinated attacks.

[1/22/2016 4:32:36 PM] Seraph Basarab: Not even sure if the csm thing is serious. On our side we're wrecking SMA and internally they are freaking out. They deployed capswarm to fade to rat up indexes and set up bait while SMA evaced one of their constellations we were hitting hardest.

[1/22/2016 4:33:53 PM] Da_Winci: Like I said, wrong target. Seen their position they're not the weakest link.

[1/22/2016 4:34:38 PM] Da_Winci: But hey, who am I ? :)

[1/22/2016 4:36:14 PM] Seraph Basarab: They're not the weakest but who are we to argue with 1 trillion isk

[1/22/2016 4:49:09 PM] Da_Winci: If you can't put 1 trillion to good use even 5 trillion won't keep you alive :)

[1/27/2016 8:05:06 AM] Da_Winci: Specially cause it was our second FC, not gigX. Happy to have 2 FCs capable of pulling that off

[1/29/2016 8:44:08 AM] Da_Winci: What is the diversion for what? CR for Venal or the other way around?

[2/11/2016 4:30:11 AM] Seraph Basarab: I heard gigx and OOS had a chat. That was good to see.

[2/11/2016 4:57:28 AM] Da_Winci: GigX spends some time in venal and they happen to run into each other. Talking never hurt anyone.

[2/11/2016 5:01:46 AM] Da_Winci: On that subject, the dreads suggestion was, and within the current situation remain, ridiculous

[2/11/2016 5:02:06 AM] Seraph Basarab: Why do you think so?

[2/11/2016 5:23:38 AM] Da_Winci: Explain me how you hide those? And in general, I'm not inclined to give anyone a stick to beat us with.

[2/11/2016 5:25:08 AM] Seraph Basarab: Well first off OSS and OOS would be working together. The assumption is that Gigx's agreement with OOS could extend to OSS as well. In short, no one is going to beat you with that stick. As for hiding them, I assume you're free to build dreads. How hard can it be to trickle them into Venal? If we need an alt middleman to transfer them SAUS is prepared to do that as well.

[2/11/2016 5:29:34 AM] Da_Winci: I'm not in the least worried about anyone of you hitting us with that.

[2/11/2016 5:30:14 AM] Seraph Basarab: What's your concern then?

[2/11/2016 5:31:16 AM] Da_Winci: But it doesn't appeal to me to have up to 300 dreads in venal to threaten our interest there. And most importantly, it would be the fast lane out of the coalition

[2/11/2016 5:32:57 AM] Da_Winci: And as I keep saying, I'm not in a hurry. Not at all. So that is the stick that might be used. Talking to all of you is meh, whatever, we all talk all the time. 100 dreads is a big stick.

[2/11/2016 5:34:04 AM] Seraph Basarab: I'm not sure I follow. You said you weren't worried about "anyone of you" using the dreads. but then you state that having dreads in venal is a threat. Then are you worried SUAS would pass those dreads onto someone else?

[2/11/2016 5:34:21 AM] Seraph Basarab: (btw its 100 dreads. 300 is what he wants to pay)

[2/11/2016 5:36:07 AM] Da_Winci: 300 is what you, oos and pl would have there. And the payment is peanuts compared to what we'd lose if evicted at this point.

[2/11/2016 5:37:10 AM] Da_Winci: Look, goons are trying very hard to find anything that would hurt our prestige atm. Anything would do to build a narrative and hit in co2

[2/11/2016 5:37:50 AM] Da_Winci: I'm not going to give them the pleasure of finding anything.

[2/11/2016 5:39:48 AM] Da_Winci: I worked for 2,5 years to get us into this position (being able to do what we want, grow steadily and become influential). Obviously CD doesn't like that. But I can just ignore their bitching and them being 'overlords'.

[2/11/2016 5:41:05 AM] Da_Winci: Eventually they will kill themselves. In my opinion rather sooner than later. And we will be in a position to stand alone (unlike most others).

[2/11/2016 5:41:37 AM] Da_Winci: So in that context I'm not going to upset the subtle balance (in any direction)

[2/11/2016 5:41:57 AM] Da_Winci: Makes sense?

[2/11/2016 5:48:34 AM] Seraph Basarab: Just to be clear, no one on our side wants to evict co2. People that are in the know, the very few and quiet people I can trust, are very willing to work with you. If you are concerned about Goons evicting you, I have to wonder if something has changed recently because in the past when we have spoken you seemed very confident in being able to stand up to them and hold your territory. In any case this scenario where Co2 waits around for the CFC to just kill itself and be a strong independent alliance is not feasible. You cannot wait idle and then reap the benefits of a fallen CFC. You'll need to participate and take initiative. I'm not commanding you to do this I'm simply saying that I'm not going to be able to stand up and say "wait guys leave Co2 be they're really cool guys" if you'll just be idle and show up after GSF is ruined. A storm is coming to smash everything in its path. If the sails on your ship are not pointing in the right direction, there is nothing I can do to help. If you think the CFC can withstand it this time, by all means do what is right for your alliance...but since you believe they are on the brink of falling apart "sooner rather than later" I would advise that you set those sails in a direction that would bring you the most benefit.

This dread oppertunity can easily be done in a smart way. It would also mean a lot to me who has been advocating on your behalf because I do view Co2 as a valuable alliance. You have to give me something here.

[2/11/2016 5:52:53 AM] Seraph Basarab: And you know just as well as I do that the GSF is not interested in having a coalition of equals. Sooner or later you'll get in their crosshairs. Co2 will not be able to grow into what you want it to with the GSF always looming over head. Their modus operandi is always to absorb the talent from their allies with their mass resources and seats of position.

[2/11/2016 8:57:11 AM] Da_Winci: You told me, claimed even, that goons were getting ready to 'invade' us. None of the signs I can see point(ed) in that direction. They would be retarted to slaughter their most capable pvp alliance.

[2/11/2016 8:57:29 AM] Da_Winci: Still possible, but highly unlikely still

[2/11/2016 8:57:59 AM] Seraph Basarab: I said that I had heard some sources within Goons say they had less then friendly designs for Co2. I never claimed "Goons were getting ready to invade you."

[2/11/2016 8:58:52 AM] Da_Winci: There have always been those sentiments within goons. And always will be. That is something we've been dealing with for years.

[2/11/2016 9:00:32 AM] Seraph Basarab: In any case my previous point stands. Should I inform OSS they'll be able to purchase the dreads from you or not?

[2/11/2016 12:23:50 PM] Da_Winci: See, TNT is about to lose their biggest Corp (northstar cabal) even without outside pressure. Now tell me where the urgency is for us.

[2/11/2016 12:27:17 PM] Seraph Basarab: I think the urgency lies in showing the other groups fighting the CFC that you'd actually fight as well. Let's say CFC starts dying as their enemies push on them. Why would Co2 be spared?

[2/11/2016 12:28:17 PM] Da_Winci: Because we are in a position now that even goons realize that if we fail the cfc is dead in the water.

[2/11/2016 12:29:00 PM] Da_Winci: Gives us the luxury of doing things when we want to

[2/11/2016 12:29:50 PM] Da_Winci: We are in agreement of the base line here. But in no way will I be pushed to overplay my hand

[2/11/2016 12:30:01 PM] Da_Winci: *on

[2/11/2016 12:31:52 PM] Da_Winci: And I see your reasoning. I even agree. But trust me that my view on things is, seen my position, broader. No offense meant, I play my cards in a different context.

[2/11/2016 12:34:00 PM] Seraph Basarab: This isn't me making this call so I hope you don't misunderstand me. But to state it very simply, if the CFC falls and Co2 does not contribute to that eventuality, those that fight the CFC won't have any reason to distinguish between co2 and gsf.

[2/11/2016 12:34:57 PM] Seraph Basarab: I guess I'm just not sure why you think Tribute's just going to be left alone and passed over by the opposition force fighting the cfc.

[2/11/2016 12:36:12 PM] Da_Winci: Then so be it. Those that should know (inside and outside the cfc) already know the difference. The average line member in the cfc even knows. PL knows, you know, NC knows, Reddit knows...

[2/11/2016 12:37:14 PM] Seraph Basarab: It's not about identity here. Basically if Co2 doesn't put the work in to drop the CFC, it's not going to have any share in the spoils.

[2/11/2016 12:38:08 PM] Da_Winci: We have no wish for spoils. Being in the cfc learned me that if you want something you're on your own anyway

[2/11/2016 12:39:07 PM] Seraph Basarab: Co2 is one of the first alliances on the chopping block for the invasion. It's literally me saying "hey wait up guys we might have an understanding going on here." They're telling me you're just basically stringing me along to fish for intel which would be fine it doesn't matter to me. But I'm trying to prove that you guys are serious here. I think the dread sale is a very fair deal, shows you're committed and is not only safe but profitable for you as well.

[2/11/2016 12:39:55 PM] Seraph Basarab: So I'm not saying reset goons tonight. But I need to know if we at least have an agreement regarding the dreads.

[2/11/2016 12:42:25 PM] Da_Winci: See, exactly my point. That is so typically the goon way of dealing with things. "We highly suggest you do this or...". Six months ago Sion hauled that same chopping block... "You choose now if you do what I say or be evicted". We as co2 told him that eviction was fine if he wanted to do so.

[2/11/2016 12:43:47 PM] Seraph Basarab: I'm not sion. I'm not commanding you to do anything. I don't even have director roles in my own corp. I have zero hard power to push any buttons. Im just letting you know that unless Co2 actually helps out with this whole thing, Im not going to be able to convince manny and others not to burn down tribute. That's not my call, I'm not doing some god father threat here. That's just the reality of it.

[2/11/2016 12:45:36 PM] Da_Winci: If that that actually turns out to happen guess what... the coalition will see their only powerhouse in flames... 3 guesses what their reaction will be

[2/11/2016 12:46:30 PM] Seraph Basarab: Im not sure which coalition you mean or what you're referring to

[2/11/2016 12:48:05 PM] Da_Winci: You're a goon. Or any alliance leader near Trib. You know that in terms of capability you only have co2 to count on. Co2 comes under heavy attack. Guess how the coalition will react

[2/11/2016 12:49:16 PM] Da_Winci: Now you're co2. You turn coat and help cfc biggest enemies. Guess how the coalition will react

[2/11/2016 12:49:58 PM] Seraph Basarab: Well you're not the only alliance coming along.

[2/11/2016 12:50:14 PM] Da_Winci: They will cry "content! Narrative!" And no amount of dreads will stop them.

[2/11/2016 12:50:38 PM] Da_Winci: And give me bastion and lawn and we have a different context.

[2/11/2016 12:50:55 PM] Seraph Basarab: You yourself stated that the CFC could not evict Co2 out of Tribute. You say their coalition is going to die on its own sooner rather than later. Now they're strong, next their weak. Which is it.

[2/11/2016 12:51:12 PM] Seraph Basarab: Well if you want bastion and lawn, that's on you to handle not me.

[2/11/2016 12:51:53 PM] Seraph Basarab: CFC would be stupid to invade Tribute. PL, NCdot, OSS, OOS, TISHU, hell probably even TEST would come up just to shit on CFC and help you to spite them.

[2/11/2016 12:52:57 PM] Da_Winci: They are weak because they mishandle their allies. They are weak because they ran out of reasons to log. No real enemy left. Give them an enemy in nullsec, next door even... even a weakened cfc will eat you for breakfast.

[2/11/2016 12:53:47 PM] Da_Winci: And I know all would come to help. But hey, you just stated they also want to kill us right now.

[2/11/2016 12:53:59 PM] Da_Winci: Same inconsistency

[2/11/2016 12:54:23 PM] Seraph Basarab: They want to kill you now because you're in the CFC. Drop out and you'd be respected for it.

[2/11/2016 12:54:31 PM] Seraph Basarab: Not the same inconsistency.

[2/11/2016 12:54:59 PM] Seraph Basarab: But again even all this is down the road a bit. For now all I want to know is if SUAS will get his dreads or not.

[2/21/2016 9:20:19 AM] Da_Winci: i'm not his strategist - have my hands full with keeping our own alliance on track

[2/21/2016 9:34:59 AM] Seraph Basarab: right

[2/21/2016 9:51:37 AM] Da_Winci: Look if you want to have those details go talk to him. I kinda respect the no leaking policy for that kind of conversations. He's bored cause the fights are predictable... obviously.

[2/25/2016 8:55:39 AM] Seraph Basarab: I never believed in the concept of poaching. If people have better options elsewhere, nothing wrong with stating the obvious

[2/25/2016 8:56:54 AM] Da_Winci: You asked how SMA would react if I offered. That requires me to do something I won't

[2/25/2016 8:58:35 AM] Seraph Basarab: So i'm wondering what sort of things need to happen before you press the button. I'm just curious so I can perhaps help ensure those things happen and you are comfortable enough to do that.

[2/25/2016 8:59:32 AM] Seraph Basarab: In short, what can I do for you

[2/25/2016 9:03:41 AM] Da_Winci: Please do stop referring to a magic button. A process doesn't have a button.

[2/25/2016 9:04:34 AM] Seraph Basarab: It's a figure of speech. What sort of things would help the 'process' along then?

[3/1/2016 12:54:35 PM] Da_Winci: You keep forgetting that we would help bastion and lawn. I told you that on several occasions. I consider them friends of co2

[3/1/2016 12:55:35 PM] Seraph Basarab: No I'm not forgetting that at all. However we did state that anything that shows Bastion and Lawn that you are their protector rather than GSF is a step forward.

[3/1/2016 12:55:45 PM] Seraph Basarab: But that's fine, just asking.

[3/1/2016 2:26:17 PM] Da_Winci: exactly - CO2 will not work against BASTION or LAWN in any way. Nobody gains anything with attacking them - or us for that matter. That should be clear to all involved by now. I've been saying that for over a year

[3/1/2016 2:27:58 PM] Seraph Basarab: I think Bastion and LAWN is going to get really hard soon. No one's presented any reason not to for the entities involved.

[3/1/2016 2:30:09 PM] Da_Winci: the entities involved have their own agenda - which doesnt always correspond with any broader perspective. And I don't have any direct lines of communications with PL and/or NC. .. well NC. yes, I could poke Travis, but he's not the one calling the shots

[3/1/2016 2:31:16 PM] Seraph Basarab: It's kind of a catch 22 and I sympathize with you. You can't pull the trigger until certain things happen and the other parties won't take you into consideration as a friendly entity until you pull the trigger.

[3/1/2016 2:31:36 PM] Seraph Basarab: It would help of course if I knew what sort of things need to play out first for you guys to feel comfortable enough to make your move.

[3/1/2016 2:37:37 PM] Da_Winci: it is a catch 22 but a comfortable one for us - Alliance vs alliance there aren't many entities that could take on CO2. It's not my problem that said alliances think they could gain anything by hitting LAWN and BASTION. For us it's more or less meh - we can defend ourselves, most others cant

[3/1/2016 2:39:09 PM] Da_Winci: and if 'you guys' don't see that/realize that hitting the wrong targets will have an adverse effect - again meh, we will still be standing in Tribute. And Tribute is - for all concerned - a key region

[3/1/2016 2:40:32 PM] Seraph Basarab: Well you won't help, but you think you and your close friends should not be attacked. And those entities still make up large parts of coalition fleets. What can I do with that?

[3/1/2016 2:42:24 PM] Da_Winci: there simply is no reason to 'help' - just keep talking to the right people (not SMA like you're doing) and things will move along nicely. I'm just pointing out that hitting the wrong targets won't get 'you' anywhere.

[3/1/2016 2:42:45 PM] Seraph Basarab: Well the only entity you'd like us to hit is TNT.

[3/1/2016 2:46:52 PM] Seraph Basarab: I think you're much more capable than me at that

[3/1/2016 2:47:15 PM] Da_Winci: i've been working on that for the better part of 2 years - there, my contribution

[3/1/2016 2:47:33 PM] Seraph Basarab: And what do you want me to do in order to make sure your allies stay with you?

[3/1/2016 2:48:52 PM] Da_Winci: goons moving to UMI means they wont

[3/1/2016 2:49:01 PM] Da_Winci: because they're scared shitless

[3/1/2016 2:49:40 PM] Da_Winci: one day Goons will make a final (diplomatic prolly) mistake and things will fall into place

[3/1/2016 2:49:52 PM] Da_Winci: brb - rl for a few

[3/1/2016 2:50:05 PM] Seraph Basarab: Ok well what part of that can I help with

[3/3/2016 2:24:19 PM] Da_Winci: You organized the upvoting of the co2 thread on Reddit?

[3/4/2016 5:06:57 AM] Seraph Basarab: No?

[3/4/2016 5:07:00 AM] Seraph Basarab: Who said that

[3/4/2016 5:29:13 AM] Da_Winci: Just a thought. Because stuff like that annoyed the shit out of goons, shows other alliances there is an alternative and generally helps your plans more than reffing towers and camping

[3/4/2016 5:21:56 PM] Seraph Basarab: Nah I don't bother with that. Goons are just legitimately unpopular on reddit for being shitlers.

[3/4/2016 5:23:34 PM] Da_Winci: Well, I've been called a shitler several times on Reddit already... So yeah, not that hard to get that title

[3/5/2016 5:43:42 AM] Seraph Basarab: Have you heard the rumor that Init is looking to leave the CFC?

[3/5/2016 6:13:30 AM] Da_Winci: rumors galore - that one included. But have no confirmation or credible indications that is true

[3/5/2016 10:05:26 AM] Seraph Basarab: Well if it were true a double defection would be extremely problematic for the goons.

[3/5/2016 10:11:43 AM] Da_Winci: I object to the if and defection words there

[3/5/2016 10:12:51 AM] Seraph Basarab: Then we could say "when there WILL be a RESHUFFLING of the north it will be problematic for the goons"

[3/5/2016 10:13:15 AM] Da_Winci: that would sound way better and closer to the truth

[3/5/2016 10:13:46 AM] Da_Winci: because leaving the CFC is one thing - joining 'the other side' is acompletely different story

[3/5/2016 10:14:31 AM] Seraph Basarab: Well there is no "other side" in terms of a coalition. It's just Hun tribes banding together to take down the big empire. Afterward (as far as TISHU anyway) we'd just go back to fighting each other.

[3/5/2016 10:15:57 AM] Da_Winci: I doubt that will be the case - banding together is a natural thing to happen

[3/5/2016 10:17:56 AM] Seraph Basarab: I think there is a distinction in culture that must be made. Most of the cfc is made up of people who have no capability to survive in 0.0 or lowsec by themselves. They're highseccers and the cfc provides a platform for them to rat because there is security in numbers.

It's a bit like comparing the sedentary civilizations of China with the warlike nomadic barbarians.

[3/5/2016 10:18:50 AM] Seraph Basarab: Aside from co2 and Init none of the non-goon alliances would stand a chance.

[3/5/2016 10:19:08 AM] Da_Winci: the combo LAWN/Bastion would

[3/5/2016 10:19:19 AM] Da_Winci: barely, but they would

[3/5/2016 10:19:33 AM] Seraph Basarab: It's possible

[3/6/2016 9:06:05 AM] Seraph Basarab: 3 guesses on where test will land

[3/6/2016 9:06:43 AM] Da_Winci: seen the activity around us - Lonetrek or Venal

[3/6/2016 9:30:00 AM] Seraph Basarab: Any idea what high command in the cfc's reaction is?

[3/6/2016 9:39:42 AM] Da_Winci: like I said already several times - I don't know what high command in Goons think - we have a seperate command structure for CO2 and for Trib-Vale coop

[3/6/2016 9:41:44 AM] Da_Winci: I neither care or am really aware of their opinion - not completely true ofc, but I dont care at all, like totally no connection between what CO2 does and CFC wants

[3/6/2016 10:09:27 AM] Seraph Basarab: Would you be able to find out if you were so inclined?

[3/6/2016 10:10:01 AM] Da_Winci: sure, share it? no

[3/6/2016 10:13:16 AM] Da_Winci: of course I know what 'high command' thinks. Like I know who is not happy with what and why. That's my job in CO2, knowing things. But I dont feel it to be to my benefit to share such information. Specially not in writing

[3/6/2016 10:16:00 AM] Seraph Basarab: We can talk on comms if you prefer in a bit. But just to be clear I always seek to be an honest broker with people and keep their secrets. I would be at a net loss to sell you out. And quite frankly anything I could show in text could easily be denied as fake anyway. But I respect your wishes.

[3/6/2016 1:41:29 PM] Seraph Basarab: My concern right now is that if TEST or someone else makes a distinct push on Tribute you will not be able to shift away from the CFC at all. You'd lose your alliance or sustain a mass departure.

[3/6/2016 2:21:38 PM] Da_Winci: So you're saying that if test (or even a combo of alliances) would push on trib we'd lose our alliance?

[3/6/2016 2:22:40 PM] Seraph Basarab: I said you wouldn't be able to depart from the CFC.

[3/6/2016 2:23:18 PM] Da_Winci: The second part of your statement..

[3/6/2016 2:25:33 PM] Seraph Basarab: Yes. If you were to be in direct conflict you wouldn't be able to tell your guys "ok we're leaving the CFC guys."

[3/6/2016 2:29:04 PM] Da_Winci: Welcome to the Beauty of our position. At the same time politically, geographically and militarily. Just take the current situation and tell me what would happen if co2 came under existential threat...

[3/6/2016 2:29:28 PM] Da_Winci: From any side...

[3/6/2016 2:30:01 PM] Seraph Basarab: Well whatever side they are on will prop them up

[3/6/2016 2:30:59 PM] Da_Winci: Fountain and FA well yeah, throw them under the bus.

[3/6/2016 2:31:16 PM] Da_Winci: Tenal and rzr, same

[3/6/2016 2:32:00 PM] Da_Winci: But trib? The only real powerhouse left (bar goons by numbers)...

[3/6/2016 2:36:04 PM] Da_Winci: I agree that this scenario is coming to some kind of conclusion soonish. But you'll have to agree also that I don't need to do much here.

[3/6/2016 2:36:31 PM] Seraph Basarab: If TEST and PL focus on you, and the CFC starts losing what do you do?

[3/6/2016 2:37:50 PM] Da_Winci: Because this fighting in lowsec has no strategic value whatsoever.

[3/6/2016 2:38:11 PM] Da_Winci: Let's see them bring that into nullsec first.

[3/6/2016 2:38:58 PM] Da_Winci: Until then I've yet to see any real focus

[3/6/2016 2:39:32 PM] Seraph Basarab: That's the point. A focus would give the CFC the kind of fight it wins at...where they can just drop blobs of numbers. But the CFC, save for 1 or 2 alliances, is incapable at smaller scale fighting.

[3/6/2016 2:39:54 PM] Seraph Basarab: 80 percent of the north (being generous here) are glorified ratters that can fill fleets up and press F1

[3/6/2016 2:40:10 PM] Da_Winci: We are so meh.

[3/6/2016 2:40:46 PM] Da_Winci: We aren't so meh (on the second)

[3/6/2016 2:41:11 PM] Seraph Basarab: co2's like the only good alliance

[3/6/2016 2:41:27 PM] Da_Winci: Thanks for noticing :)

[3/6/2016 2:42:09 PM] Da_Winci: And it would be stupid to push there right? Military adagio has it you focus on the weakest link.

[3/6/2016 2:46:19 PM] Seraph Basarab: Or it could be smart. If Co2 crumbled, who would stand up?

[3/6/2016 2:48:16 PM] Da_Winci: Well I'm willing to take my chances on that. It's in cfc interest to keep us alive.

[3/6/2016 2:49:27 PM] Da_Winci: And maybe goons would be willing (and some are) to throw us under the bus. But both bastion and lawn wouldn't stand for a month if we falter.

[3/6/2016 2:49:59 PM] Da_Winci: So it's in their own interest we hold trib

[3/6/2016 2:50:30 PM] Da_Winci: How you want to look at it... same conclusion.

[3/6/2016 2:51:55 PM] Seraph Basarab: Maybe they realize they wont be able to hold much beyond Dek and fade. COuld do them well to absorb the other corps into GSF proper and ensure their region is safe too.

[3/8/2016 4:24:51 PM] Seraph Basarab: I mentioned to him "someone" in the cfc high up might be interested in changing alignments.

[3/8/2016 4:25:05 PM] Seraph Basarab: And he said that if they wanted to talk to him perhaps he could help out

[3/8/2016 4:26:34 PM] Da_Winci: ingame name?

[3/8/2016 4:47:16 PM] Seraph Basarab: No I didn't use any in game names.

[3/8/2016 6:10:01 PM] Seraph Basarab: So here's an idea. We'll have people focus on TNT if you keep Co2 out of coalition/goon fleets.

[3/9/2016 10:03:10 AM] Seraph Basarab: Fair deal?

[3/9/2016 10:06:42 AM] Da_Winci: it just keeps amazing me how wrong your assumptions are - take some time to study the BR's for at least the past year. CO2 has since always had the culture of not being in Goon fleets. Bar the lonely guy that ends up in a fleet ... we have always pushed our people to be in our fleets. So what you offer is something we already been doing for like forever

[3/9/2016 10:07:26 AM] Seraph Basarab: In Hakoken how many Co2 were in fleet?

[3/9/2016 10:08:57 AM] Da_Winci: what hakonen fleet?

we never have had 1 single guy in a goon fleet in hakonen

but why do I even have to explain myself there? We fly our fleets. Period

[3/9/2016 10:12:14 AM] Da_Winci: ow wait... you mean fight the same people... so what you propose is an effective withdrawal from the CFC in return for you doing what you would/should/could do anyway

[3/9/2016 10:12:22 AM] Da_Winci: that is just lolz

[3/9/2016 10:13:37 AM] Seraph Basarab: I'm simply saying don't join up with any fleets unless Tribute sov/towers are being hit. Go have a JC deployment in Curse or Catch or Wildlands for all I care. You don't "withdraw from the cfc" you just do your own alliance things. On my end I'll make sure the people fighting in tribute focus on tnt and leave your stuff alone.

[3/9/2016 10:15:34 AM] Da_Winci: this is getting ridiculous.. we have been doing exactly that for ages and you cannot deliver on your end what I cannot negotiate myself (or we could handle if you dish it out)

[3/9/2016 10:18:39 AM] Da_Winci: Might I remind you that every scenario you pictured since we started talking (CO2 being smashed somehow) has not become reality. Why? Because either you cannot pull enough strings or the scenario's you present are too far fetched.

I am in no hurry whatsoever. This will go as it goes. Slowly but surely. And I am perfectly okay with that

[3/9/2016 10:19:03 AM] Seraph Basarab: What scenarios did I picture of Co2 being smashed? What are you talking about?

[3/9/2016 10:19:19 AM] Da_Winci: goons will invade/kick us

[3/9/2016 10:19:34 AM] Da_Winci: NC will use Vale as base to invade Trib

[3/9/2016 10:19:51 AM] Da_Winci: PL is deploying and will focus on Trib

[3/9/2016 10:20:09 AM] Da_Winci: OSS and OOS will focus on our sov

[3/9/2016 10:22:10 AM] Seraph Basarab: I explained this to you once before. I said that I had heard some people within GSF say that they would like to do harm to you. You even agreed to it. And that was that.

I stated that PL/NC would focus on Vale...which so far they have. The ultimate goal isn't necessarily to "invade Tribute." But of course that's on the way when marching west. PL just got to Vale so things are developing obviously.

OSS/OOS isn't focusing on your sov because as you may have known at one point, I spoke with both SUAS and Moxich and brought them the idea of having a NAP with you so they can focus on the far north.

[3/9/2016 10:24:02 AM] Seraph Basarab: Listen please I'm not mittens here. I don't make little pissy threats with hidden meanings. If I want to do you harm I wouldn't even tell you. I'd just do it.

[3/9/2016 10:25:02 AM] Seraph Basarab: So whatever paranoia infused context you are used to when speaking with goons needs to stop right here for us to have a meaningful discussion. I'm not twisting arms here. I'm offering opportunities. Not every suggestion that you keep into mind certain possibilities is some scheming threat.

[3/9/2016 10:27:13 AM] Seraph Basarab: If you don't think I have common interests in mind I can't help you.

[3/9/2016 10:30:41 AM] Da_Winci: I wasnt even on the threat-train .. just stating again and again that I do not need to be in a hurry. I do not need to make deals at this point in time.

Goons overall don't like us. I'm fine with that

Goons overall need us. I'm ofc fine with that also

Your side overall doesnt like us. I'm fine with that

Your side overall needs us. I'm fine with that also ofc

Seen this situation I'm 'confronted' with the luxury of not having to do anything. And that suits me fine.

In that respect you actually did make a subtle threat along the lines of 'if you don't give me anything I cannot protect you'. Not that it matters, but there actually is that subtext in much of what you say.

[3/9/2016 10:31:14 AM] Da_Winci: that said, i'm always open for suggestions and conversation. Just keep in mind I don't need to do anything at all

[3/9/2016 10:36:13 AM] Seraph Basarab: But that's not a threat. That's simply stating that if nothing at all is done I have no reason to even assume you aren't just stringing me along for intel. I don't control everything. I have my hand more firmly on some things and on other things I only have glimpses, if that. So if say TEST deployed to Taisy and set their mind on making Tribute their new home, would I be able to say "hold on guys, these guys are really with us." No. I'd get laughed at. Likewise if there is a harsh war in Tribute and eventually you decide that the Goons aren't helpful to your interests, what are you going to be able to do? Tell your guys that you'll bend the knee to TEST? That's what a flip will look like mid war no matter what you say.

[3/9/2016 10:43:32 AM] Da_Winci: I see what you mean. We already told goons (Sion) that we would choose to be kicked rather than sucking his dick. I from my side - our side - know where we stand. And if TEST has plans to invade us, meh, bring it on I'd say. You don't need to tell them anything then. Nor do I drag you along for intel - best case what I get from you is to confirm or deny intel that I get elsewhere. Not a source as such

[3/9/2016 10:46:13 AM] Seraph Basarab: I was just looking a Tribute by the way. TNT has more systems than even you in Tribute. They have the safe "ratting bottleneck clusters." They bring 50 in fleet at most while you guys do around 200 if not more.

[3/9/2016 10:46:32 AM] Seraph Basarab: I mean you know these things.

[3/9/2016 10:46:38 AM] Da_Winci: we feel played there yes

[3/9/2016 10:47:31 AM] Da_Winci: as we feel cheated on tons of issues

[3/9/2016 10:49:27 AM] Seraph Basarab: I would feel such a satisfaction for you to watch CO2 just take the rest of tribute

[3/9/2016 10:49:55 AM] Da_Winci: so would we. We dont even make a big secret out of it

[3/9/2016 10:50:36 AM] Da_Winci: it's a common topic in alliance

[3/9/2016 10:51:18 AM] Seraph Basarab: Here's my worry with waiting too long however. If there isn't some defining spark of some sort to really turn people on, I worry PL will be fickle and just piss off to Amamake in a few weeks. I don't talk directly with PL and the ISK Barons funding this assure me that PL is all the way in, but I'm skeptical.

[3/9/2016 10:51:44 AM] Seraph Basarab: So i'm trying to figure out some sort of action that can be taken to make you guys feel safe enough to kill TNT.

[3/9/2016 10:52:27 AM] Da_Winci: TNT are killing themselves - even without you or me putting pressure

[3/9/2016 10:52:35 AM] Da_Winci: Wibla is burnt out

[3/9/2016 10:54:06 AM] Da_Winci: I just recruited a corp that was kicked by TNT because they pissed of Wibla. My 2 cents

[3/9/2016 10:54:29 AM] Seraph Basarab: Can CFC alliances have their own blues outside of the coalition?

[3/9/2016 10:57:07 AM] Da_Winci: we have a group keeping up our indexes in a constellation. Much against what Goons want. So we have our own blue list ofc

[3/9/2016 10:57:26 AM] Da_Winci: I don't care about what goons want us to do

[3/9/2016 10:57:57 AM] Seraph Basarab: So what if you blued up an entity that will be hostile with TNT and they used your space to stage out of?

[3/9/2016 10:58:21 AM] Seraph Basarab: Not super heavy. Just a smaller group, enough to drive wibla mad and over react

[3/9/2016 10:58:24 AM] Da_Winci: could do that, but would not do that

[3/9/2016 10:58:57 AM] Da_Winci: that is harboring the enemy - not going there

[3/10/2016 4:04:39 PM] Da_Winci: As would I. Be it that I have ample reason to be smug. They have none.

[3/10/2016 4:06:18 PM] Seraph Basarab: I was surprised that the lowsec group was able to pull it off. I would have thought GSF would have dropped their supers big time.

[3/10/2016 4:06:50 PM] Seraph Basarab: Did they just poorly plan by placing their supers too far away or they didn't consider protecting your titans a priority?

[3/10/2016 4:20:21 PM] Da_Winci: I wasn't awake when it happened. I didn't even bother to check. I woke up to those dead Titans... nuff said

[3/10/2016 4:27:19 PM] Seraph Basarab: I remember when Razor had a similar mishap and they were ridiculed for it on TMC. I can't imagine a much more independent alliance's line members stand for that sort of unclassyness.

[3/10/2016 5:45:09 PM] Seraph Basarab: I think the events of last night have really accelerated the pace at which some other things will happen.

[3/10/2016 6:36:57 PM] Seraph Basarab: Do you know what system TEST is moving to?

[3/18/2016 4:34:16 PM] Seraph Basarab: I was thinking about TEST and GSF's campaign to take Delve, Querious and Period Basis. Are you familiar with that campaign?

[3/18/2016 4:34:42 PM] Da_Winci: more or less yeah

[3/18/2016 4:35:11 PM] Seraph Basarab: They had a fairly similar culture and they didn't hate each other. Yet fighting alongside in a prolonged conflict caused issues. Familiarity breeds contempt, if you know the saying.

[3/18/2016 4:35:41 PM] Seraph Basarab: I think that issue was caused because despite liking or not liking each other when one power rivals the other, there will always be tensions.

[3/18/2016 4:37:23 PM] Da_Winci: i'm familiar with that concept. That's why we keep more or less to ourselves. But I see that's difficult to 'feel' from the outside

[3/18/2016 4:38:44 PM] Seraph Basarab: Certainly only you can feel your own skin but I do believe you when you say that. However I was thinking of the pressure was focused almost solely on Co2, that would force GSF to be around you more and more and those tensions would arise I feel.

[3/18/2016 5:09:14 PM] Da_Winci: exactly. And I'm fine with that. Like I said from the very beginning - they will come to our aid. Not out of love, but because it's in their own interest. Tribute has historically been the battleground of many pivotal conflicts. This time will be no different.

And kinda ironic that seen the amount of alliances coming up North.. you're creating another monster coalition

[3/18/2016 5:22:49 PM] Seraph Basarab: Why is it ironic?

[3/18/2016 5:26:57 PM] Da_Winci: because you cry havoc every time someone mentions the CFc

[3/18/2016 5:27:28 PM] Seraph Basarab: I do?

[3/18/2016 5:27:41 PM] Da_Winci: speaking in general

[3/18/2016 5:27:49 PM] Da_Winci: as in 'the other side'

[3/18/2016 5:28:01 PM] Seraph Basarab: Well of course they'd need to form a coalition to match the cfc.

[3/18/2016 5:28:19 PM] Seraph Basarab: When the cfc can put 800-1000 guys in fleet with some of their pings what other option is there

[3/18/2016 5:29:21 PM] Da_Winci: so I feel it's correct to call that ironic. needing a coalition with alliances that basically hate each other to kill another similar coalition

[3/18/2016 5:29:33 PM] Da_Winci: I indeed find that rather ironic

[3/18/2016 5:30:34 PM] Da_Winci: I'm sure at the end of this (regardless of the outcome) a lot of people will realize they totally misjudged several alliance in the CFC

[3/18/2016 5:32:30 PM] Seraph Basarab: Key difference I think is that the opposition will not remain as a coalition after the war ends, regardless of the outcome

[3/18/2016 5:34:14 PM] Da_Winci: very true

[3/18/2016 5:35:20 PM] Da_Winci: 1 small thing there - what will consist a positive outcome? Up till now it looks like getting the people together in itself is the goal

[3/18/2016 5:36:21 PM] Seraph Basarab: Victory terms depends on who you ask. For me it would be a break up of the CFC. If goons perished as a result great. If not, that's fine too.

[3/18/2016 5:36:27 PM] Da_Winci: because short of killing goons themselves - the CFC will just keep running

[3/18/2016 5:38:26 PM] Da_Winci: said the Germanic commander of the Guards just before he killed the last Roman emperor

[3/18/2016 5:42:44 PM] Seraph Basarab: For a time when we killed mad emperors

[3/20/2016 5:11:52 PM] Seraph Basarab: So TEST is in Obe....TISHU just moved to Akora

[3/20/2016 5:12:11 PM] Seraph Basarab: Did you hear about Bovril?

[3/20/2016 8:13:05 PM] Seraph Basarab: joining bastion by the looks of it

[3/20/2016 8:21:24 PM] Da_Winci: Was made aware of that last night yes

[3/20/2016 8:31:50 PM] Seraph Basarab: I saw the NAP with OSS/OOS hasn't held up too

[3/21/2016 2:47:04 AM] Da_Winci: That wasnt a NAP. And that happens when people take their wishes for reality.

[3/21/2016 5:13:40 AM] Seraph Basarab: I don't think they had a problem with it not holding up whatever the name was.

[3/21/2016 5:21:26 AM] Da_Winci: Suas assumed other things. Or Lenny had other plans. I didn't make any drama. It's cool for them to get on our Titans but boohoo for a handful of dreads. Right...

[3/21/2016 5:23:04 AM] Seraph Basarab: Nobody had any issues with the dreads.

[3/21/2016 5:23:53 AM] Seraph Basarab: I have to say that I feel like our window of opportunity is closing very quickly.

[3/21/2016 5:35:15 AM] Da_Winci: According to who's timeline? And even if, so be it.

[3/21/2016 5:35:52 AM] Da_Winci: And suas actually had issues with the dreads. Tower died

[3/21/2016 5:36:09 AM] Seraph Basarab: If he said something to you I don't know anything about it.

[3/21/2016 5:36:52 AM] Seraph Basarab: Just making an educated estimation regarding the timeline. Everything's coming along very tightly around the area.

[3/21/2016 5:37:47 AM] Seraph Basarab: You know what Lex told me 5 months ago about all this? He didn't believe me. "None of the people you name would ever commit or move to the north to do any of this."

[3/21/2016 5:45:21 AM] Seraph Basarab: My point is I'm have a pretty good eye for estimating how things develop, even when people on my own side disagree.

[3/21/2016 5:49:33 AM] Seraph Basarab: Even you doubted me in things such as PL getting involved. You have OSS/OOS to your north...TEST, Snuff, MerCo and Mayhem to your south, TISHU, PL, NCdot and shadow cartel to your east....and TNT to your west. Once the conflict really escalates it'll be extremely difficult for you to switch sides. Now while you have something to negotiate you'll have much more leverage.

[3/21/2016 5:51:07 AM] Seraph Basarab: At the absolute most by the end of April many fewer people involved will be interested in talking.

[3/21/2016 6:01:19 AM] Da_Winci: On suas, we talked briefly after the incident.

[3/21/2016 6:03:14 AM] Da_Winci: Whatever Lex told you, expecting that anyone would just turn around and open their arms for their socalled liberators, is just naive.

[3/21/2016 6:04:01 AM] Seraph Basarab: Oh he completely thinks this is unlikely. He's always doubted me. But so far I'm enjoying proving him wrong. Maybe this time I won't. Up to you.

[3/21/2016 6:05:16 AM] Seraph Basarab: But I mean what choice do you have really? Your coalition leader is an idiot. Your allies are trash tier. The CFC has turned almost every semi competent alliance into mushy meatshields.

[3/21/2016 6:06:04 AM] Seraph Basarab: You flip, you blue with TEST/OSS/OOS/Triumvriate...you already match the remnant of CFC fleet numbers. Bastion and LAWN either fold into you or die as PL/TISHU/NCdot completely burn all their shit down.

[3/21/2016 6:06:50 AM] Seraph Basarab: You take the rest of Tribute from TNT, maybe even more, and you're the alliance that helped topple goons.

[3/21/2016 6:13:37 AM] Da_Winci: You can rehash that scenario endlessly for me. I know, I agree, I see, I understand... and you know my answer by now... I'm not in a hurry. At all

[3/21/2016 6:14:19 AM] Da_Winci: So you can throw the rest of Eve against tribute it will not make me hurry more.

[3/21/2016 6:15:08 AM] Seraph Basarab: I just think by the time you think you are ready, it'll be too late and people involved will rather watch co2 burn then negotiate with it.

[3/21/2016 6:16:02 AM] Da_Winci: I don't have to do jack shit. Because the way your people approach co2 is very very similar. Instrumental respect... let's see how nc. would react when presented with the opportunity to take back tribute.

[3/21/2016 6:16:22 AM] Da_Winci: Then so be it.

[3/21/2016 6:16:50 AM] Seraph Basarab: How is Co2 being approached?

[3/21/2016 6:17:11 AM] Da_Winci: Switch or else...

[3/21/2016 6:17:20 AM] Seraph Basarab: How would you like to be approached?

[3/21/2016 6:17:24 AM] Seraph Basarab: When that's the reality of it?

[3/21/2016 6:17:36 AM] Da_Winci: That shows you people differ in nothing from goons.

[3/21/2016 6:18:02 AM] Da_Winci: That quote could have come from Sion.

[3/21/2016 6:23:18 AM] Da_Winci: Really? It will be, as always, some compromise between all of the above. Pushing for clear cut answers is useless, trust me

[3/21/2016 6:23:44 AM] Seraph Basarab: Then lay it out for me so I can understand.

[3/21/2016 6:28:30 AM] Seraph Basarab: Is there a 3rd option?

[3/21/2016 6:40:27 AM] Da_Winci: You all understand that hitting the strong parts will trigger the wrong result. Both for you and for us. You will not break goons by breaking their strongest alliances. But clearly you're not up to attacking the root itself.

Also, you've all been approaching several cfc alliances all with the same tune.. "Switch, switch now or..." Exactly the way goons approach them. Now what would you do in that case? Trust the people threatening you? No. Same approach, same lack of respect. We will only deal with people that also our timeline. Not just use our strength and position to benefit them.

[3/21/2016 6:42:51 AM] Seraph Basarab: And no one's approached any other alliance in the CFC because the rest are trash quite frankly. At least nobody I know.

[3/21/2016 6:47:04 AM] Seraph Basarab: I'm not making any threats. I don't make threats nor do I have a position to do so because I'm not in command of PL or whoever else. I'm simply letting you know what the likely outcome will be of your inaction.

[3/22/2016 11:03:09 AM] Da_Winci: Got out safely. Trying to get home safely from Brussels now.

[3/23/2016 5:56:49 PM] Seraph Basarab: How many cfc members do you think still feel that siding with goons is in their best interest?

[3/23/2016 6:15:15 PM] Da_Winci: If I had the headspace to bother I'd tell you. RL doesn't give me any room to bother atm

[3/23/2016 6:15:58 PM] Seraph Basarab: I understand. Some things are more important than this game. Most things are.

[3/23/2016 7:24:40 PM] Da_Winci: Make me an offer concerning co2 - bastion and lawn. In the next 24hrs if possible.

[3/23/2016 7:50:07 PM] Seraph Basarab: So this deal would be for all three? Are the other two parties in the know regarding our talks or do you plan on bringing them aboard once an offer is made?

[3/24/2016 2:10:57 AM] Da_Winci: I talk for co2 ofc and co2 alone. I talk continuously with them and the time has come. For this to work we need more than co2 alone. I have a meeting with them in 12hours on this subject.

[3/24/2016 2:27:34 AM] Seraph Basarab: As far as Co2 goes you'd keep Tribute and get standings and you would help us fight the CFC (TNT sov to start with.) If Bastion and LAWN can agree to those same terms they'll have the same deal.

[3/24/2016 2:29:18 AM] Seraph Basarab: So you could essentially build your mini-coalition with Bastion and lawn and dunk on TNT.

[3/24/2016 6:14:52 AM] Da_Winci: Standings with?

[3/24/2016 10:28:27 AM] Seraph Basarab: PL, NCdot, TISHU, etc

[3/24/2016 2:40:32 PM] Seraph Basarab: I

[3/24/2016 2:40:41 PM] Seraph Basarab: I'll be back around midnight your time if you have any questions.

[3/24/2016 8:12:11 PM] Seraph Basarab: I'm around if you need to talk

[3/25/2016 6:38:21 PM] Seraph Basarab: What's Lawn and Bastion's take on this? I assume you spoke with Carneros and Thoric?

[3/28/2016 12:03:24 PM] Da_Winci: Killah Bee was present also but not from the very beginning

[3/28/2016 12:03:40 PM] Da_Winci: so is that the same page for you?

[3/28/2016 12:04:29 PM] Seraph Basarab: Yeah. Personally I wouldn't make It a requirement that you "denounce the cfc" I mean your actions speak for that. It sounds kind of weird in my point of view but that's fine. If you'd like we can do an interview with you for EN24 and let you get your statement out.

[3/28/2016 12:06:25 PM] Da_Winci: statement is already prepped. When the trigger is pulled anyone can publish it. Interview is cool also tho I (and we as CO2) are not out to be pixel famous. We just do our thing as always

[3/28/2016 12:07:10 PM] Seraph Basarab: Of course. Just for practical purposes. Always helpful to get your view across. I can't wait to see Mitten's spin this for his fireside.

[3/28/2016 12:08:22 PM] Da_Winci: true, but we don't feel the need to 'convince' people of what we do or why we do it. You know this would happen eventually and we'll just let our actions speak :)

[3/28/2016 12:08:50 PM] Da_Winci: I leave the comment sections to the forum jockeys - me not being one of them

[3/28/2016 12:09:16 PM] Seraph Basarab: your call, more for us jockeys to enjoy then ;)

[3/28/2016 5:56:58 PM] Seraph Basarab: Do you want to e-mail me your statement so I can prep it for release?

[3/28/2016 6:01:53 PM] Da_Winci: i will go over it with Suas if I can get a hold of him

[3/28/2016 6:02:02 PM] Da_Winci: fucking Tidi

[3/28/2016 6:02:09 PM] Seraph Basarab: yeah I saw it's disgusting

[3/28/2016 7:47:27 PM] Seraph Basarab: Do you mind if in my article I discuss some of our exchanges? Nothing too specific just kind of when we started talking, what were some common points of concern etc

[3/28/2016 7:53:52 PM] Da_Winci: sure

[3/28/2016 8:09:33 PM] Seraph Basarab: Look at them

[3/28/2016 8:09:35 PM] Seraph Basarab: they're in total shock

[3/28/2016 8:09:38 PM] Seraph Basarab: They don't even know what to do

[3/28/2016 8:10:02 PM] Da_Winci: just went to the standings list - fingers hurting

[3/29/2016 1:59:40 AM] Seraph Basarab: Yeah just that we were talking.

[3/29/2016 1:59:42 AM] Seraph Basarab: [3/28/2016 7:47:27 PM] Seraph Basarab: Do you mind if in my article I discuss some of our exchanges? Nothing too specific just kind of when we started talking, what were some common points of concern etc

[3/28/2016 7:53:52 PM] Da_Winci: sure

[3/29/2016 2:01:22 AM] Da_Winci: Nothing specific means you don't release screenshots of the actual talk. Nor do you suggest this was planned back then.

[3/29/2016 2:01:37 AM] Seraph Basarab: I didn't say it was planned back then. I stated we were talking.

[3/29/2016 2:01:58 AM] Seraph Basarab: People can talk about their feelings regarding a game. Don't freak out listen to the stream. I gave you guys huge props.

[3/29/2016 2:04:08 AM] Seraph Basarab: [12/20/2015 5:57:03 PM] Da_Winci: pls keep me posted on how they would actually react when what we discussed becomes a reality

[3/29/2016 2:04:11 AM] Seraph Basarab: that was your line

[3/29/2016 2:04:14 AM] Seraph Basarab: Is it too much you think?

[3/29/2016 2:09:02 AM] Da_Winci: I just woke up after a looong night and almost no sleep. I don't need to wake up to screenshots with my name on it splattered across eve sites

[3/29/2016 2:09:24 AM] Seraph Basarab: It was a 10 minute stream interview man relax. Who is freaking you out about this?

[3/29/2016 2:09:54 AM] Seraph Basarab: I said you guys weren't looking to betray CFC but you were considering your options. You felt mistreated. You were loyal members. You brought most of the fleets. Said some stuff about geography and that was kind of it.

[3/29/2016 2:14:46 AM] Da_Winci: Analyze all you want. Don't link screens with convos with my name in it okay

[3/29/2016 2:15:23 AM] Seraph Basarab: Alright

[3/29/2016 7:32:44 AM] Seraph Basarab: "Despite these numerous insults, Co2 was committed to wanting to work out their situation within the coalition as best they could. They were interested not only in the well being of their own alliance, but would often discuss the well being of Bastion and LAWN. Hardly the "back stabbing traitors" Mittens would want to spin Co2 as."

Excerpt from the article I'm writing up.

[3/29/2016 8:57:24 AM] Seraph Basarab: Alright almost wrapped up. I have not used any of the CO2 names of individuals and posted no private logs. I used quotes from the public statement made on reddit, expressed my personal experience and stated personal opinions regarding what I thought motivations were.

[3/29/2016 9:06:17 AM] Da_Winci: sounds good to me :)

[3/29/2016 9:07:36 AM] Seraph Basarab: How are the line members taking all of this?

[3/29/2016 9:08:06 AM] Da_Winci: i've held open office on TS all morning and most are happy and excited

[3/29/2016 9:08:28 AM] Da_Winci: some valid concerns and issues raised, but overall the mood is positive

[3/29/2016 9:09:45 AM] Seraph Basarab: If you ever need my help with anything I'm happy to do what I can. I know SUAS is also pulling for you guys. Co2's the type of alliance that deserves to be out in 0.0...not these servile pets that cling to the goon's skirt.

[3/29/2016 9:10:57 AM] Da_Winci: most are baffled - means that they didnt see it coming - which means that the people I work with can be trusted

[3/29/2016 9:11:03 AM] Da_Winci: and thats important

[3/29/2016 9:11:37 AM] Seraph Basarab: I couldn't help but smile when Mittens remarked how "We were caught completely flat footed."

[3/29/2016 9:12:05 AM] Seraph Basarab: I spoke with lex about our talks early on even back in December and he just kind of waved me off. "yeah yeah i'll believe it when I see it seraph"

[3/29/2016 9:12:54 AM] Da_Winci: I dont think he was. Or should've been. If you would know what I told him in our last convo... I was pretty blunt, a good listener would have understood then

[3/29/2016 9:14:42 AM] Seraph Basarab: Laz flat out said he doesn't think the cfc can win and he sounded so down

[3/29/2016 9:19:03 AM] Seraph Basarab: I have to be honest for a long time I thought you were just stringing me along for intel perhaps. Like by some crazy conspiracy you were talking with mittens the whole time.

[3/29/2016 9:55:03 AM] Da_Winci: I see your point and was aware ... but seen the situation that was neccesary :) but I was being honest all the time

[3/29/2016 9:55:55 AM] Seraph Basarab: I think that you did everything as you should have or as close as possible to it.

[3/29/2016 1:58:59 PM] Da_Winci: One small remark on the article on eve24. Judge is not the head diplo. I am. Please correct. He loves the spotlight more than I do, but he's a senior diplo (we have 2). I'm the head diplo around here.

[4/1/2016 4:46:39 AM] Da_Winci: as said, we will go after TNT immediately ...

[4/1/2016 4:47:18 AM] Seraph Basarab: Any "tears" from wibla and his friends

[4/1/2016 4:48:02 AM] Da_Winci: nope, he was afk most of the time anyway - we'll not hear from him cause he couldnt be arsed to care in the first place

[4/1/2016 3:51:52 PM] Seraph Basarab: Hey this won't go in any article but I was curious who else came to negotiate with you about leaving the cfc

[4/1/2016 3:55:23 PM] Da_Winci: what organisation or person?

[4/1/2016 3:55:52 PM] Seraph Basarab: person

[4/1/2016 3:58:33 PM] Da_Winci: none - it was mentioned in several chats with people, but never actually the main subject

[4/1/2016 4:01:58 PM] Seraph Basarab: I thought so. It's funny that people who weren't involved or were even against the idea are coming out of the woodwork to scream from the top of the tree that they "made co2 flip." People are...people.

[4/8/2016 2:39:08 PM] Seraph Basarab: Okay wonderful. I didn't want there to be any issue so that's great.

[4/8/2016 3:00:20 PM] Seraph Basarab: Mitten's hasn't been public in almost 4 or 5 days now...

[4/8/2016 3:08:10 PM] Da_Winci: his income is under threat... no wonder

[4/8/2016 3:09:55 PM] Seraph Basarab: How awesome do you guys feel being in basically the eye of the storm of all of this happening. Every time he's talked since you guys left the cfc has made mention of "the back stabbers"

[4/8/2016 3:11:58 PM] Da_Winci: meh.. we don't have the culture or urge to be in the spotlight. We do what we think is best. If he wants to put us in the spotlight so be it. I have an alliance to run... he should have run the coalition (properly). He didnt, we try to :)