I haven't been home very much - yet. But that will change now that we're getting into the heart of summertime. I've been getting quite a few responses to the posts here at arlo.net concerning various subjects. I've been thinking it would be a good idea to further the conversation. There's controversy surrounding just about everything going on these days. And although I think discussing difficult subjects is good for the soul, I constantly have to remind myself that it ain't all there is.

For example, about 5 or 6 years ago I left the Democratic Party and joined the Republican Party. I did so because I believed that my voice (and others like mine) needed to be heard where it would be most useful. Frankly, I still don't believe there's a whole lot of difference between the two. But, a healthy democracy needs a loyal and healthy opposition. Without it we run the risk of a march toward totalitarianism that would be difficult to halt.

At the time the Republicans were in power everywhere and they were seemingly taken over by ideas that ran counter to traditional Republican positions. They used to be for less big government intrusion into our lives. To me that's usually always a good idea.

So what was up with interfering in matters of who can marry who? That's a big invasion into personal freedoms and liberties. Those who try to control our personal lives are not only not for traditional Republican values, they're not even really for American values. The way I view it, the state has no business in the house let alone the bedroom. The way I would resolve the current controversy would be to insure that secular marriage be open to anyone. And that religious marriage not be infringed upon by the state - to marry or not as their traditions permit. Both religious and secular marriages would be acknowledged as it is now. That, to me, should be the Republican position.

What's up with the bail outs etc? I hate to say it but the arguments in Congress and on TV miss the more important points. Talking heads and political animals arguing about how much to spend and where are not talking about the basic truth - that when more dollars get printed, the less each dollar is worth. With trillions of dollars being manufactured to pay for bail outs and other tasks, each dollar buys less stuff. Not only have we given gazillionaires our tax dollars, we've made each dollar we still posses just about worthless. Saving and creating jobs may be an appropriate government intrusion in extraordinary times, but to do so in a way that makes our money worthless benefits no one in the long and endangers the nation. A return to real money - where the value is not up for discussion is the only protection a wage earner really has. That, to me, should be the Republican position.

What's up with rebuilding infrastructure? The best way to insure we'll have a 20th century transportation system in the 21st century is to rebuild the existing infrastructure. I thought by now we'd be flying around in personal (automobile-size) vehicles. There's no reason we can't be building vehicles that use magnetic fields for flight and navigation... okay maybe I'm getting ahead of things. The point is that it seems easier to get to the freaking moon than it does to get from coast to coast. Who's thinking about that stuff? Constantly widening roads and bridges that devour the land with all the intersecting attributes of the same chains of crappola shops and fast (nutritionally worthless genetically modified and just plain bad) food restaurants can't be the next best hope for our nation's infrastructure. That, to me, should be a Republican concern.

What's up with health care? In a world where even the good guys (National Public Radio, Farm Aid etc.) are sponsored and funded by organizations more powerful than any nation, it's hard to imagine that the bottom line will not be what's profitable, instead of what is beneficial. Can the two co-exist? Sure. Do they? No. The sad truth looks to be that it's more profitable to have a nation filled with people who are in bad health, than a nation of healthy people. The current administration and the Congress has been talking about how to make health care accessible to everyone, because they all know that these multinational organizations will be more than happy to provide long term drugs and services to a nation that permits and even encourages bad health whether or not a new health care plan comes into being. It's a win - win for government, insurance companies, pharmaceutical companies, hospitals, doctors, lawyers and agriculture. Only you lose.

The march has already begun around the world to outlaw the use of natural medicines - vitamins, minerals, herbs, and other plants so that you will become a criminal and a law breaker when you try to care for your own family in your own way. You are no longer responsible for yourself or your family, as the state has in no uncertain terms made it clear that you belong to the nation, and the nation has every right to protect you and your family from yourselves. The child in the midwest with cancer forced to undergo chemo and radiation being only the latest example. Is this not a cause for some loyal opposition? Where the hell are these guys when you need them? It's not a matter of being right or wrong. I've been both many times. It's a matter of having a real contest of ideas between different opinions. Sadly the Republican voice has drifted off to Neverland while the larger issues of what health care actually is gets run over by arguments of how and who will pay for it.

I want government and big business out of my garden. I want insurance companies out of my way when I go visit my doc. I want to pilot my cool 21st century flying electro-magnetic car. I want real money. And I want to get out of the business of being in politics in either party. But, someone has to say something. And these are just a few of the things I think need to be said. There's more... Wars, interventions, useless government agencies, education policies, privacy issues, an end to criminalization of personal choice things... all kinds of stuff.

Granted I've had two cups of coffee this morning, so I've gone on longer than I should have. And like i noted above, I don't expect to be right on anything. I'm perfectly capable of listening to a good argument and changing my mind. I'm not a piece of stone. Please feel free to take issue with me on anything - I enjoy changing my mind. I just wouldn't expect anything beyond a good friendly listen. There's more to this world than getting involved but there's times you just feel like you have to do something, say something or be somebody - however uncalled for. There is, in my view a larger bigger picture where we are all stuck on some little tiny world in a very big universe of unimaginable largeness. Like ants figuring out which way back to the ant hill, our journeys however big they may seem to us, are small in the big picture of things.

That's no excuse not to get back to the hill... An ant's gotta do what an ant's gotta do. Keeping the big picture in mind, knowing there's more to life than arguing about everything, but maintaining the basic nature of a free and democratic nation, taking care of each other in ways that encourage security, prosperity and tranquility - Freedom, Liberty, Justice - You know, all the good stuff, these are worth talking about. I'll go on talking and thinking about these things wherever I think they need to be heard, even though I know full well, they won't be inviting me to any clambakes or anything. Good thing I got my own clams... adg

I know I'm supposed to be working but what the heck. Arlo well said and couldn't agree with you more about most of what you have said. Interesting though, I jumped ship from the Republican party a few years ago when an 80 year old lady in my town was told that she couldn't stand on the curb protesting the Iraq war as the presidents motorcade came through my town. I thought that this was totally unamerican and an infringment on freedom of speech. Of course there were other issues that influenced my decision to change parties but that was the final straw for me. But, either way both parties are pretty much the same. I think i'll register as an Independent and vote for the person, man or woman, instead of for the party.

Wow, ADG a card-carrying Republican! It's the world turned upside-down, and your Dad is doing cartwheels in his grave.

Seriously, all of your points are valid. I agree that there isn't a whole lot of difference between the two parties in this country, but there IS some difference. The Republican party's last great impact on social change was nearly 150 years ago with the abolition of slavery, and even that came about more to preserve the union than anything.

Advances in civil rights, voting rights, environmental protection laws, occupational safety laws, anti-trust laws, and laws to provide an economic "safety-net" for the poor are all agendas that would never have seen the light of day if we had to wait for Republicans to advance them. Just my opinion.

I should be surprised but I'm not. Perhaps it's because I live where the people who are Democrats would be Republicans anywhere else. The Republicans would be... meaner Republicans. So if Arlo is a card carrying Republican, he fits right into the local environment. Hell, with a balding pate and a Ford Taurus, I'm left of Arlo. Whoda thunk it.

Again, I'm for tactics that evolve us. So I can't see trouncing Palin's private life even where I disagree with her. It doesn't seem to me we improve anything by slapping them around for their lifestyle choices anymore than they improved our lives. How do we contest the issues with ogres without becoming trolls?

I'm minimally a Democrat and I'm upset with their rants too. It's too bad the game in DC is 'if I'm up, you're down; and don't dispute anyone who is up'. Our parties claim moral high ground, but in my experience, we are as moral as we are willing to give up something we ain't wanting to give up to get something for someone else. Then T-Bone Burnett says, "I understand it when Len goes all hippie on me..." but if others do "I'm losing all hope."

I hadn't realized just how anachronistic I've become. This isn't a topic about that, but just saying.

I guess, Arlo, one reason I came here is because I trust your judgement on life things. You've hoed the center row to the end since the beginning, so I'm a little surprised you went Republican in the middle of the Bush years. Yet what you say makes sense. I read where you told a reporter that today is not the 60s coming back; it is the same human reaction to the same kinds of things. Do the values of forty years ago make sense today, or are we realizing those values aren't of a time or space but something more, something that reawakens anytime it's needed like some mythical hero? Do we rebuild the Patriot's Dream by fusing what we've learned since then into a philosophy or vision that includes our pride in our heritage with our understanding that diversity in culture is like marrying across the aisle with the certainty once outside the chapel fights will break out and that's ok as long as the cops don't come?

I'm remembering your testimony at the Chicago 7 trial. You said you would not go because you couldn't be assured people wouldn't be hurt (paraphrasing). That impressed me. So I gotta ask, is that still where you come down on things?

Wow. Musta been 2 Large Esspressos!I've also been saying for some time that the republican party has changed and been taken over by social conservatives as opposed to fiscal conservatives.As much as I would not identify with the current republican party, I do share some of their historical fiscal conservative and smaller government views. However, too much or too little of many things can be equally bad.I, much like you adg, run a small family business and enjoy the free enterprise system(not so much these days......business sucks).Free enterprise needs certain controls that were lacking with the BIG money changers, who in large measure led us into the financial mess we are in right now. There can be reasonable controls without unreasonable intrusion. The trick I suppose is deciding where the lines are drawn.If the "deciders" like our old buddy "dubya" rely simply on some form of ideaolgy, without seasoning it with intellect, fairness and pragmatism, they will most often make the wrong decisions. It's clear to me that dubya was the poster child for that type of thinking. I tend to agree with you regarding there not being a GREAT deal of difference between the two major parties. And joining one to help change it from within may be noble, however futile it may turn out to be.However, I can't see myself joining them any time soon, so you must have a bit more nobility or a bigger set of balls than I do......or both! Having said that, I don't wish to see the Dems go to the extreme left either!(regarding monetary stuff). Everyone who has ever lived could say "In Time Like These", and then articulate a list of problems to face and be solved. Those of us here now are no different. Tough medicine and decisions can get us through this, but on the other side some things need to change to avoid it again. That's the road I see us on now, it ain't perfect, there is no GPS system that will get us there without making a wrong turn, but I need to put my faith in the guy I help vote into the Whitehouse, becaue he is both younger and smarter than me, and I could say neither about the last guy! Oh well......back to work.....like I said...business sucks!

Adg sez: “less big government intrusion into our lives. To me that's usually always a good idea. “

It is. The problem is a consensus on what is intrusion and what is necessary services.

Quote:

Adg sez: “So what was up with interfering in matters of who can marry who?”

It’s a fear thing in my opinion. It is also natural. There is a long long history of liberalizing sexual-based behaviors only to deliberalize a generation later. It may not be right but it’s awfully human.

Quote:

Adg sez: “The way I would resolve the current controversy would be to insure that secular marriage be open to anyone. And that religious marriage not be infringed upon by the state - to marry or not as their traditions permit. Both religious and secular marriages would be acknowledged as it is now.”

Right. The problem is only the State can actually marry. “By the power vested in me by the State of Moi”. There is no way out of changing the Federal laws to ensure they don’t infringe on the State laws, and then campaign in each state. I’m afraid this is like pot laws in that regard. But yes, secular marriage should be available without regard to sexual preference; otherwise, keep church and state separate. Eroding that separation is another sure trip to devolution hell.

Quote:

Adg sez: “What's up with the bail outs etc?”

People who went to the same schools tend to take care of each other is one point of view. The other is the alternative was to let the system come off the rails and sort it out afterwards. My problem with this is that the door cracked open for a second and we got a glimpse of just how bad things are with the Pharoahs of Wall Street. “It’s bad.” And then we moved onto Michael Jackson’s funeral without skipping a beat.

IOW, there are no consequences for crimes that big and if there are no consequences, we can’t stay focused on it. We need financial reforms because we can't get the money back. We need policy reforms. We’d rather eviscerate Palin than face up to the fact that there are international groups who control our money and our lives, that they operate beyond the law, and that we appear to be powerless to stop it. I’ll leave that there, but yes, devaluing money to keep them in their lifestyles is precisely what put the Weimar Republic into the hands of the Brownshirts. Caveat emptor.

Quote:

Adg sez: “What's up with rebuilding infrastructure?”

Good question. The stimulus money sure is having a hard time getting turned into pavement.

Quote:

Adg sez: “The point is that it seems easier to get to the freaking moon than it does to get from coast to coast.”

It’s a highway with no off ramps but one and so far, only one car at a time. Despite what the car cost, its a subcompact with a 440 under the hood, but the highway system was built and maintained by God. God does cheap work.

Quote:

Adg sez: “What's up with health care?”

Our concern for personal choices, for one. We want a reformed health system at the same time we want the same health care for anyone who visits a doctor. Would you be happier if the national health care system were analogous to the VA?

Quote:

Adg sez: “The march has already begun around the world to outlaw the use of natural medicines - vitamins, minerals, herbs, and other plants so that you will become a criminal and a law breaker when you try to care for your own family in your own way.”

I want medical marijuana because I know it works. In 13 states, I can get it. Mine isn’t one. My options? A plastic jesus or a bottle of expensive steroid derivatives that don’t work as well. I’d love to see Republicans rolling joints for cancer patients.

Quote:

Adg sez: “I want government and big business out of my garden.”

Do you want national health care? Do you want improved infrastructure? Do you want improvements in civil rights for personal choices? We have to be careful to delineate what we think the government should be doing and not doing.

Quote:

Adg sez: “I want insurance companies out of my way when I go visit my doc.”

I want them to pay up and not screw up the records so I pay the same co-pay twice only to be reimbursed in the next cycle. I want secure portable medical records so I don’t have to take the same tests twice and any test I take can instantly be seen by the next doctor in the co-pay food chain. I want Mexico to buy CDC-standard health alert networks so the next time there is a flu outbreak, we react according to the instance instead of having to rely on protocols designed for bio-chemical terrorism scenarios. I want them to be Johnny on the spot on the coast when a hurricane roars in instead of having to rely on Wal-Mart and the US Navy.

That’s more than some get from some folks. On the other hand, you gotta be Arlo Guthrie and I don’t. Wear it well.

Quote:

Adg sez: “There's more to this world than getting involved …”

I’m not sure there is. Everything good in my life came of saying “Yes” out loud to something my heart said yes to first, but then, I’m a short haired hippie poet. We’re weird people out here. What’s so good about that peace and love stuff?

Everything.

Quote:

Adg sez: “… taking care of each other”

The good fight. Instead, we are always sucking up to power and money. T-Bone Burnett commenting on the way the web has affected music sales said the one thing the labels can do that artists seldom can do on their own is access capital. I use you as the example of the artist who figured the web out early and worked it, but then, you also tour more the French cyclists. The oxygen masks have to go on the adults first and they have to be trained to fight their instincts and do that.

Quote:

Adg sez “Good thing I got my own clams...”

Good thing you’re taking them to Erie PA, Kid.

You can carry that card, but everything you do tells me you don’t know how to quit giving a damm.

i try to be moderate as far as politics.i lean left on some things,right on the others.my main objective is to try and get along with everyone, respect their opinions,and be open minded, even tho it dont work out that way all the time.

my concern is what was mentioned about holistic meds!i had a friend tell me this a while back i was like"p'shaw" -but she was right!last year i did some research on that issue and i was totally shocked.i mean i go to the doc and all,but i also use alot of vitimans and herbs as well to tend to non emergency situations at home.(i.e.CATS CLAW,is supposed to slow the aging process,and GARLIC is supposed to naturally lower yout bad chloestrol,etc i use many)if they can tell us what NATURAL medications we can/cant use(they already do with the grass)whats next? im afraid of the answer.i look at my 3 mo.old granddaughter and kinda tremble inside for her future!

I never could get real into politics because I just don't feel like I fit in anywhere. I had to sign up to be republican last year so to vote for Ron Paul. I suppose I'll switch out again at some point. I don't give them any money so it doesn't matter too much to me what word is on the paper.It does bother me, and both parties are at fault at the government getting bigger and bigger into everything. And how it just doesn't seem to bother most people. I have two teenage sons who are both on a 6 o'clock curfew right now for coming home drunk and I sit up worrying when I can't find them late at night but I still don't think it's a good idea for the state to put black boxes in cars and why doesn't it even phase most people? They really don't mind the big brother thing coming home?

Did they name it the Patriot Act on purpose so that if you disagree with handing over all your personal rights you're Un-Patriotic?

A few random thoughts from one who isn't a coffee drinker (but respects everyone's right to choose their own beverage)...

I also left the Democratic Party a few years back (2001 or 2002, I think), but it was for "no party" and the catalyst was the grandstanding over the pledge of allegiance "under god" case that had come down in California. Reasonable people can disagree about the legal issues involved; it was the cheap political theater -- at a time when the man who brought the case and the judges who decided it were being threatened with physical harm -- which pushed me over the edge.

I went back to the Dems last year, just to vote in the primary, but it was more of a symbolic gesture than anything and one of these days I will find the time to fill out the change of registration again. Don't think I'll go over to Republicans, though...although Washington (DC) is a good place to be the good kind of Republican; we generally don't have the nutjobs other places have, at least not in power. I've voted Democrat, Republican, libertarian (mostly gave up on them, though, when the DC libertarian party proposed using my tax dollars to build parking garages, the bastards), green, socialist, Statehood, no party; voting is an existential experience here because the only person my vote can possibly matter to is me (Dems always win nationally here by at least 80-20 (Obama with 92.5%), and mostly win local elections 60-40, except that 1-2 seats on the City Council are reserved for non-Democrats. Actually, one of the problems the Republicans have is that occasionally one does get elected here and then s/he gets so annoyed at the national Republicans that s/he leaves the party. On their local website page, "Why be a Republican?" they end the discussion in 1917 with Jeannette Rankin.

I'm not sure if I agree on the marriage issue -- that is to say, I agree that anyone should be able to get married; I'm just not sure the government should be involved at all in marriage. If people want to say they're married and have weddings and stuff, that's fine, but maybe the government should just get out of the whole business and treat everyone alike, whether married or not, whether gay or straight. Adults, that is.

I find this idea of flying personal vehicles intriguing. Clearly, it would have the advantage of getting the ugly metal things which ruin our landscape out of my sight as I go walking (maybe even walking that ribbon of highway, as Granny D did), but I don't want to pay taxes to support it and it could make for a really ugly skyscape, so I don't know. Beam me to California, Scotty, is more appealing.

I have mixed feelings about government "intrusion," too. People say that, but what they're really talking about is usually the executive and legislative sides of government -- everybody always still wants to be able to go to court if they're harmed, and the philosophical question to me is do you regulate before the harm, or after? Do you assemble all the law into a "code" which the average person at least has a chance of finding, or leave it in court decisions ("common law") where people have to search volumes (and volumes) and corporations make big $$ off "helping" people find the nuggets of "law" amidst what can be endless discussions. I also think that government intrusion is warranted when the government has already intruded...for example, corporations are created by the government and the law provides certain protections (limitations on liability) for the human beings behind the corporation. Well, I think if the government does that, it then has some duty to right the balance by regulating the corporation. Or get out of the business of chartering corporations entirely...

But back to the political parties. I think there are good people in both, but they all too easily get caught up in the political theater. It's not just them, it's us; we reward this crap, at least some of us do. I ran across a quote tonight from one of my (other) favorite authors, Terry Pratcett, which captures this nicely:

"And so the rule of kings gave way to the rule of Patricians. In a kind of mirror image of democracy, they have tended to get into power by lies, trickery and deceit, but remain in power only by a very crude democratic process; if they make too many enemies, they'll be out of office, power, and probably their corporeal form. It seems to have worked, possibly for the reason advanced by the current Patrician in his treatise on the art of government, The Servant: 'If it continues for long enough, even a reign of terror may become a fondly remembered period. People believe they want justice and wise government but, in fact, what they really want is an assurance that tomorrow will be very much like today.' " (The Discworld Companion)

So...no gay marriage because that would be different, it's OK if the infrastructure falls apart because it'll happen slowly (till it doesn't)...it's as if the entire country were possessed by its id.

"The end"; except -- environmental protection, occupational safety...much as it pains me to say...1970, Nixon was the one. Even the darkest darkness has some light.

You're a Republican. Cool! You get my vote next election if you run! With you running, the Dems wouldn't have a chance. It's interesting reading your take on things. Keep on drinking that coffee. In the am I am usually beyond coffee lol even when I drink it lol...

i try to be moderate as far as politics.i lean left on some things,right on the others.my main objective is to try and get along with everyone, respect their opinions,and be open minded, even tho it dont work out that way all the time.

my concern is what was mentioned about holistic meds!i had a friend tell me this a while back i was like"p'shaw" -but she was right!last year i did some research on that issue and i was totally shocked.i mean i go to the doc and all,but i also use alot of vitimans and herbs as well to tend to non emergency situations at home.(i.e.CATS CLAW,is supposed to slow the aging process,and GARLIC is supposed to naturally lower yout bad chloestrol,etc i use many)if they can tell us what NATURAL medications we can/cant use(they already do with the grass)whats next? im afraid of the answer.i look at my 3 mo.old granddaughter and kinda tremble inside for her future!

That's my bone of contention is as well.

I just know someone out there has killed the thing that is killing us all...the big C....naturally. The moment this person decided to tell us all, Big Pharma said "Oh NO you don't!! If you do that, no one will buy our million dollar meds and I won't be able to buy my kid the G.I. Joe with the kung fu grip for Christmas." So a million more of us are going to die or die trying to get better, but hey...as long as THEIR kids are cared for....no biggie.

Me? I can't afford health insurance and no I'm not on medicade and yes..I might be pregnant and yes I could have to put my house on the market to afford prenatal care. Nice!

I have always felt that we were given everything we needed to survive here. Now that there is only a quarter of it left...people have been forced to try to "recreate" it all in a petri dish out of who knows what...something someone else created in a petri dish.

Okay...the blunderthoughts are taking over here......So Scientist Johnny Fever discovered the seed of an extinct plant in some perfectly preserved remains and shouts "We don't have to use that "recreated" stuff anymore...we have the real thing now! Sure it will take some time to repopulate it, but there will be enough for all of us."

How do we keep that out of Monsanto's hands?

I admit to not being the sharpest tool in the shed and that I don't really understand politics very well, but some things do stick. I want to be allowed to do things as naturally as I like. Natural would cost the .gov less, but yet when they take the corn syrup out and put sugar in, they charge you more to do that. Want it totally sugar-free? Sure but we have to charge you TWICE as much to not put it in in the first place? What the heck??

Why is the amount of ill people quadrupling ?? Will my child have autism or ADD or ADHD because I ate twinkies growing up instead of apples? Is anyone looking?

Alright...I'm sorry... all this has nothing to do with the price of tea in china or what you all are discussing, but the mention of Holistics really sent me into a coffee induced blathering blunderite babble.

Thank you for allowing me the place to say it. Wishing everyone a peacful sunrise this morning.

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