PREGAME NOTES: A lineup with Belt in left and Posey at third? Bochy sees that as an option

Near the end of his pre-game media session, Bruce Bochy smiled and looked up. “How many rumors are we starting here?”

Well, think of them as hypotheticals instead. Brett Pill has been taking grounders at third base to give the Giants a little coverage with Pablo Sandoval sidelined by a sore back. But Bochy said Pill may see more time there in the future, and he will continue to take fly balls in left field.

“I think it’s obvious it’s going to help his value,” Bochy said. “It just gives you more flexibility to make double-switches and things like that. With his bat and his ability to (move around if needed), it makes him a valuable player. I like to do that with players that are more ‘role’ type of players. It maybe gives you the ability to carry one less position player at times.”

Pill is out of options after the season, so the Giants can’t put him back on the Fresno-SF shuttle next year. Brandon Belt has long been done with that shuttle and now is the first baseman of the present and the future. But let’s say, hypothetically, that the best way to add a much needed bat this offseason is to acquire another first baseman …

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“As we go into the winter, we’ll see where we’re at with this club,” Bochy said. “I will say with Brandon Belt, that’s always an option (to play left field). That’s the versatility he does have for you. He has a good arm and he’s a pretty good athlete. I don’t know what we’ll end up doing this winter. That’s (Brian Sabean’s) decision. We’ll talk about it. When you have a guy like Brandon it does give you an opportunity in case that scenario comes up. There’s nothing on the horizon right now worth talking about. That doesn’t mean it couldn’t happen.”

To be clear, moving Belt is not a move the Giants want to make. Belt is one of the best defensive first baseman in baseball, but you never know what’s going to happen during the offseason. The Giants need another top-notch bat, and maybe that player can’t be found in left field. Belt’s ability to play the outfield gives them another option.

Now, one you’ve heard before …

“(Buster Posey) is a guy, now there’s no thought about this, but I think he would be a really good third baseman,” Bochy said.

(So do I)

“We like him where he’s at right now,” Bochy continued, “This would be something that if we took the time, he’s athletic enough to do it.”

Bochy has brought this up several times in the last couple of seasons and you know it just kills him to be without his best hitter 30-40 times a year. Plus, Posey might be wearing down by spending so much time behind the plate. He doesn’t have an extra-base hit in his last 43 at-bats and has driven in just three runs in his last 26 games. That’s not the Posey the Giants have come to know.

“We’ve had a tough schedule and he has,” Bochy said. “Going to the All-Star game, all that, I’m sure it takes a toll.”

Posey wants to catch and he’s more valuable than any catcher in baseball. But personally, I do think he ends up at third base in the next few years. He’s too good a hitter to be out of the lineup so often.

So there you have it, a bunch of hypotheticals. Some interesting stuff to talk about on a Wednesday afternoon. Have at it.

— Here’s a non-hypothetical. Angel Pagan had a triple and a single last night and went from first to third on the latter. He also had a busy night in the outfield while playing six innings. He remains on track to join Triple-A Fresno on Friday and return to the big leagues around September 1.

— Sandoval had an MRI on his back and it came back clean. He may be back in the starting lineup tomorrow and is available as a pinch-hitter today.

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— Hector Sanchez doesn’t even really have a bruise where he was hit by a 95 mph fastball. He said he felt lucky that the pitch hit a meaty part of his arm, not the small bones that are in the wrist. It was pointed out that Sanchez has taken a beating over the past week. “No, over my whole career!” he said.

— Tony Abreu is here because he tweaked his groin during a rehab assignment. He will run the curve tomorrow to see if he’s ready to return to Fresno.

Not scoring on a leadoff double?? Boston may be suffering from an infection previously localized on the inner part of San Francisco Bay.

Polioptila Achtundzwanzig

Yungo strikes again!

Lou Brock

Torres pickoff – 2013 Giants baseball personified!

ClutchUp

Stealing on a LHP’s first motion will produce:
-Stolen base
or
- Just what happened

That’s not on Torres, that happens 50/50 in baseball vs. LHP pick move
No analysis needed…

channelclemente

I’m at a loss, how is it with all that speed Torres can’t steal a base. He didn’t fall off the turnip truck yesterday.

Polioptila Achtundzwanzig

Brandi B restarts his regression!

Mavo

Thanks for the nice comments after my rant about people criticizing Bochy last night! You’ve restored my faith in 99% of you on here!

Now if this is Zito’s last start in Orange and Black … let’s hope he DEALS!! I love this guy … he NEVER quit … even with all that $$$ in the bank. Got to admire the man for that … if not his pitching most times.

Go Zeets!! Go Giants!!!

Polioptila Achtundzwanzig

The Busted Poseur follows suit!

Mavo

CC – I thought the Giants should have moved Buster to 3B when they signed him! It would solve a lot of problems and keep his HOF bat fresh for all season … not to mention a LONG career!

channelclemente

The book says, for base stealing to be effective, you have to be 80+% successful. For his career, Torres is 77%. Maybe, it’s just not in his repertoire.

channelclemente

Mavo,

I can’t argue with you. He keeps taking shots to the head, he repeat Matheny’s tragedy.

Polioptila Achtundzwanzig

Mavo says:
August 21st, 2013 at 1:08 pm

“CC – I thought the Giants should have moved the Busted Poseur to 3B when they signed him! It would solve a lot of problems and keep his HOF bat (?????) fresh for all season … not to mention a LONG career!”

Aside from sub-standard offense, the problem is that the Poseur has already shown himself incapable of playing first base, the easiest infield position.

And … the requisite HR to the No. 8-hitting stiff. Surprised the pitchers haven’t yet lit up the Giants this series.

Polioptila Achtundzwanzig

Zito is a role model for the rotation!

South City Jim

Why isn’t Buster having Zito pitch around that guy with the pitcher on deck. That’s on Posey as much as Zito. Dumb!

channelclemente

KIR,

it’s mostly gone unmentioned how very good Belt’s arm is. Now he just needs to figure out routes and defensive outfield positioning. Also, Abreu has played a little OF, if I recall. Great flexibility.

http://nada paul in p.v.

Last night VGF said that Susac has not played a game in August – concussion?

carmot

I say Will Middlebrooks should keep hitting bombs… Him being in a platoon with Nava at 1B will take *one* bidder out of the “José Dariel Abreu Bidding Sweepstakes.”

And that’s good for us!

Polioptila Achtundzwanzig

Punter delivers!

Just wondering

Channel … seems to me the Giants can’t teach or develop base-stealing skills. Some of these players should be working on almost nothing else all spring, since that should be a big part of their powerless game. But it just doesn’t happen, and the Giants haven’t had a real serious base-stealing threat even with a long line of very fast players in recent years.

jd

After that ab, convince me why Pence should be getting $15 million+ a year.

Polioptila Achtundzwanzig

South City Jim says:
August 21st, 2013 at 1:19 pm

“Why isn’t the Busted Poseur having Zito pitch around that guy with the pitcher on deck? That’s on the Poseur as much as Zito. Dumb!”

Nobody has accused the Poseur of possessing smarts.

Quotation edited for spelling and punctuation.

http://nada paul in p.v.

Snorks still has his jones for Joaquin. )

Polioptila Achtundzwanzig

And Arias can actually field his position…sorta.

Jim Ray Hart

I’m glad Sandoval is sitting because Arias can hit the big fly!

Polioptila Achtundzwanzig

Quiche-nik makes contact! Baby steps…

Lefty

Susac has a “shoulder impingement.” He also had a hand injury in July. No concussions this year, but I maybe remember him having one in San Jose.

Domino effect this next year–how Susac and Hector come along, how Pablo does. They could let Pablo walk and move Posey to third for 2015 if Susac and Hector seem ready to take over.

channelclemente

Just,

I agree. That is definitely something, IMO, that is critically coaching dependent too. Lopes sure improved the Dodgers in that regard.

channelclemente

Sandoval is getting a reputation that he is injury prone. He could find himself a DH somewhere sooner than he expects if he doesn’t prove folks wrong.

http://nada paul in p.v.

That’s what I wuz thinkin’ Lefty. gilligan

carmot

Susac has been sidelined by a shoulder impingement. Usually this means an impinged nerve. Or “pinched” for those less medically inclined. He was dealing with a hand injury just prior to that. I don’t know if he’ll get a shot at being the #2 catcher in 2014, but I think it mostly depends on whether Hector can solidify his defensive abilities during this winter/off-season.

“Flablo is getting a reputation that he is injury-prone. He could find himself a DH somewhere sooner than he expects if he doesn’t prove folks wrong.”

He is also getting a reputation for obesity and, when his elbows bump into his belly, his bona fides as a hitter are open to question.

Quotation edited for spelling and punctuation.

The Oracle

I like that Ellsbury tried to let that pitch hit him, which is something the Giants’ lead off hitters never do.

Joe Rudi

Zito playing to his WHIP now.

Mavo

Darn it … looks like Zito is not going to have a good send off as a Giant! Still … I admire the man … if not the pitching! Most athletes would have QUIT when he was left off the postseason roster in 2010 .. especially with all that $$$ in the bank. There is more to a man than W-L records and ERA .. not that some on here would recognize that!!!

ClutchUp

Ellsbury = strike three

Play at first base = replay please, oh no wait!

Jamie Moyer

For crying out loud! Get #59 in there now!

http://nada paul in p.v.

“Zito tried to elevate that fastball – that’s something he’s worked on since Spring Training.”

Uh, Kruk, it was 82 mph…

Lefty

Replay was clear that Victorino was out–barely, but definitely.

http://nada paul in p.v.

These guys gotta be thinking, today my BA goes up!

Polioptila Achtundzwanzig

Brandi B, apparently, is not the smartest of first baseman either.

carmot

Oh thanks, Lefty. Beat me to it.
Sorry for the redundancy of my repeating what she said.

I certainly don’t know this, but *IF* Brett Pill could net us a nice high prospect from a team that needs either a 1B or DH on the cheap, with good upside, and a serviceable floor…

Maybe a prospect like MIN Eddie Rosario, CHW Marcus Semien, or BOS Bryce Brentz. His chances of latching on as a rostered Giant for 2014 seem slim. And without options remaining, it just might be prudent to get what we can instead of losing him for nothing. Shame though, I think he’d be a good bench bat for us as an NL team… At the very least.

Polioptila Achtundzwanzig

Zito is a great example for young Gnathurlers.

carmot

Scott Boras is not happy.

Woj

Zito?? LOL.
He has stunk, stinks now and fortunately, wil lstink for some other team next year. $127M for 2 playoffs games in 2012. That’s what Zito delivered. I’d say he was drastically overpaid.

* Stealing second off of a LHP is not a skill, it’s about luck and guessing correctly off of that lefty pitchers first move of his left shoe…

* Also working on “the skill” during down time or spring training has little value as the “working on part” is being done against your own people, pitchers and coaches.

* You either have the skill in its raw fashion or you don’t. LHP’s are deceptive but stealing third base while standing on second is EASY off of a LHP. Stealing second off of a righty is not simple as they have various ways they can neutralize a runner’s god given speed.

* I believe you steal off of knowing tendencies of said pitcher and guessing/stealing catchers off speed sign.

Snorkel/Gilligan

Mavo

Zito finally gets a guy to lunge off balance and the lucky SOB bloops one in anyway! Then the ump blows a call at 1st. Buzzard’s luck for our Giants all season!

Jamie Moyer

C’mon, Chad Gaudin with tunnel carpal could have done better!

Polioptila Achtundzwanzig

Don’t stop now, Zito!

ClutchUp

paul in p.v. says: August 21st, 2013 at 1:40 pm
“Zito tried to elevate that fastball – that’s something he’s worked on since Spring Training.” Uh, Kruk, it was 82 mph…

To elevate means to change the eye level not velocity.

Silly Snorkel…

Stan

I admire that Zito. He holds his head high,never complains about being paid 126 million dollars,and he shows up for every start. All man.

Mavo

Why do the trolls like to hang out here? It is pathetic that they think their stupid comments are funny or get a rise out of most of us. What sort of loser sits around getting his kicks like that?? I guess I don’t really want to know that!!

hitman

Don’t you just love inter league play? What’s up with Zito today? Heh,heh,heh!!

channelclemente

CU,

and yet some guys, on other teams, are just ‘luckier’ than your typical Giants base stealer.

GSDubs

Looks like Pablo is telegraphing his offseason and 2014 season up to the trade deadline thusly:

1. Already starting his walk year weight loss regimen
2. Giants want to keep their “eye” on him this offseason to make sure he loses another 20 lbs to bring him under 300.
3. Pablo sightings become the rage during winter. Conflicting reports that Pablo has/has not lost weight.
4. Although not to the naked eye, Bochy has declared Pablo has lost weight – “maybe not as much as we had hoped” but he has all of spring training to lose the requisite amount we expected of him. Of course, he doesnt lose any more.
5. Regular season starts and Pablo gets off to torrid hot April and May. Is it the weight? Is it the looming contract? Who knows but we like what we see. 6. Pablo goes on obligatory DL stint with a foot hamate injury. He has surgery and spends 3 weeks in Santa Cruz. Does he gain weight? Does he keep it off? Does he go to jail?
7. In the meantime, Pablo has crossed the line from Pablo to Panda again. Panda hats flying off the shelves. Panda is back!

8. Pablo comes off DL and goes hot again right up to the trade deadline.

So now the Giants have the predictable dilemma: do they trade him with market value sky high (no way, he’s Panda again. What a PR nightmare. Fans wouldn’t take to it very well)? Or do they re sign him (no way, he’s playing for his contract and as soon as he signs, he goes on a weight gaining binge again – worse than ever this time. The Pablo of 2013 re emerges)?

Good luck trying to figure this one out, Sabes.

Stan

Zito is superman. No amount of humiliation or losing gets to him. Teach your children well is oh so true.

Miss Cleo

Barry Zito’s regular season Giants record will fall to 62-78 on August 21, 2013.

Zito is Just Fine

My baby’s doing okay, strike three to Ells, out at first ruled safe, big swing flair single from the lummox Gomes.

-amber

Mavo

I’m out of here ..can’t waste my time skipping through all the idiotic trolls with their stupid digs at my Giants!!

Go Giants … FOREVER!!!

Stan

Zito won the 2012 World Series. He’s won the Cy Young,his legacy is cemented.

Polioptila Achtundzwanzig

It’s reassuring that Bochy decides to leave his ace in the game!

Stan

And Zito has said often he worked hard to get where he is. The American Dream.

Stan

He has money,good looks, a beauty queen wife. Your all just jealous.

Polioptila Achtundzwanzig

Mavo says:
August 21st, 2013 at 1:53 pm

“I’m out of here ..can’t waste my time skipping through all the idiotic trolls with their stupid digs at my Giants!!

Go Gnats … FOREVER!!!”

We may have differences of opinion, but we are all Gnatfans here!

Quotation edited for spelling.

carmot

For goodness sake. If we are truly in ‘evaluation mode for 2014′ give Scoots a rest. He bobbled a ball yesterday (I’m convinced it was in part to lack of lower back mobility to bend over), slid head first into 1B, and gets landed on at 2B.

Maybe we need to see if any of our farm guys can stick around for at least the 2014 bench spot. If we’re willing to give up up-the-middle-defense (Hector Sanchez at C and DFA’ed Francoeur in CF), why not watch/evaluate Perez, Tanaka, Minicozzi, or Adrianza at 2B for a spell?

I am happy we’re getting a long look at Kieschnick in LF. We already know what Blanco brings and he can be a very good 4th or exceptional 5th outfielder. So, we’re starting to see the gears turning. Slowly. But I hope we’ll get a chance to rest Sandoval a bit, see Chris Dominguez at 3B, and a prospect evaluated at 2B. September… September…

Dalton

I like how through all these hypatheticals the one guy they left out was Sandoval……it was Pill at 3rd, Buster at 3rd etc……does this hidden meaning mean this season could be it for the portly 3B ??

ClutchUp

channelclemente says: August 21st, 2013 at 1:51 pm CU,
and yet some guys, on other teams, are just ‘luckier’ than your typical Giants base stealer.

CC: Making ones own luck is a mental skill. The Giants athletic base stealing threats don’t study the ptichers tendencies enough imo. Luck stealing off of a LHP is defined as “going as soon” as the LHP’s front shoe moves enough to slip a piece of paper undernearth. Hard to wait to read a Lefty’s move, that’s what happens on a hit and run.

RHP’s move to first has more variables. They’ll “break” their front knee and either get away with it or balk. Righty pitchers dont have to “come set” to throw to first and that one seemingly bothers the few Giants base stealing threats.

* I think Roberto Kelly is as good as gone
* Bam Bam = not so much, although I can dream

Jamie Moyer

Miss Cleo says:
August 21st, 2013 at 1:53 pm..

Barry Zito’s regular season Giants record will fall to 62-78 on August 21, 2013.

**********
Didn’t Zito have 15 regular season wins last year? If so, that’s 47 regular season wins in the other 6 years. Huh?

Stan

Zito can cook and write songs. A Renaissance man.

Stan

He’s played with the Beach Boys. His teammates admire him.

hitman

Good golly miss molly. Zito sure does not look good today. Heh,heh,heh!

Mavo

One last comment .. answer to trivia …

Orlando! The Baby Bull! Cha Cha!!!

Stan

Zito gets nothing but praise from his Organization.

Silvio

Carmot:

Can’t sit Scutaro YET. Sandoval is hurt. They weren’t gonna slide Pill to third base today vs. the #1 AL team in the east…. where they?

hitman

Hey Mavo. Have a good one! Heh,heh,heh!!

Stan

Zito,if he met you ? Would treat you with dignity and respect.

Lefty

Carmot:

I think your posts are mostly fun and harmless, but two things I’m not going to tolerate:

(1) Any mention of Steve Edlefsen anywhere near AT & T Park, ever, in any role
(2) Any mention of Kensuke Tanaka playing 2B for the Giants.

This is a friendly warning. See my smile?

Idontgetit

anthillunda2nd, If Susac is “still learning” then Sanchez should at least start the process. Susac is a much better catcher than Sanchez, I’ve seen plenty of both of them. On another topic…Botchey says Zito deserves this start…why? And what do the 40,000 people at the park deserve? A guy sitting 82-83 mph with a spinner? A 10-1 loss? Zito has been well compensated for his contributions and doesn’t deserve anymore, especially when we could look at some young arms. Belt n Pence butchered that. They kind of look like “Bookends Gone Wild”.

Polioptila Achtundzwanzig is the name of a Giants Extra blog spammer who fails to see the irony in the fact that he watches every Giants game pitch by pitch. If he had paid this much attention to his schoolwork or his fast food internship, he would have found a way to finally leave his mother’s basement.

Dwreck

Clutch,
I disagree when you say that base stealing is not a skill and that its luck. You can work on the skills to be better and actually become better at it. It does have to do with luck and knowing a guys move sometimes or just that a pitcher is slow out of stretch, but that’s not always the case. As a base stealer, some guys are given the raw talent and others work on it and become good at it.

Stan

Barry Zito ponders his place in the Universe. And concludes that yes,it is of a higher level. But he thinks it in a modest way.

Polioptila Achtundzwanzig

It’s distressing to see Bochy pull his ace in the fourth.

channelclemente

CU,

I understand, but somehow, a good thief learns to read those LHP. As a matter of fact, I seem to recall a master like Morgan preferring LHP. They can’t hide anything. IMO, like Lopes did for the Dodgers, you have to develop a thief to read the cues, they are there.

Slayer Fan

Stan says:
August 21st, 2013 at 2:03 pm..

Zito,if he met you ? Would treat you with dignity and respect.

+++++++

Zito’s a tool!

Lefty

I’m just saying. I’ve DFA’d several guys this year and sent others to Fresno. I have Sam the bus driver on speed dial. I don’t like threats, but I’ll start in on blog commenters if I have to.

Stan

Barry Zito will accept the buy out next season. And thank the Giants with class. No hard feelings at all.

Polioptila Achtundzwanzig

Having experienced regression, Brandi B wants more!

midasmicah

I’m a die hard Giants fan from way back. Could someone please tell me why Jean Munchi continues to be brought up from AAA. To put it mildly, he’s shit personified. Jake Dunning had a 2.84 era and was great, but got sent down. Munchi has been brought up 2 times, DFI’d, reclaimed, and brought up again. I love what Bochy has done with this team, but there comes a time when change is needed.

40-Man Roster

Barry Zito must go now! NO MAS!

Stan

And Barry Zito never promised in writing he would win 20 games for the Giants. He said he would do his best. And he has.

TheNoseKnows

Munchi?

Stan

Barry Zito is not to blame here.

Dwreck

I believe most of this team has packed it in and are just going through the motions…oh wait that’s how botchy manages every game!

Dwreck says:
August 21st, 2013 at 2:14 pm
I believe most of this team has packed it in and are just going through the motions…oh wait that’s how botchy manages every game!

Whattttttt? Thats you being stooopid.

Stan

Finally, Barry Zito will live another 70 years in wealth and happiness. How about you?

carmot

Lefty,

It might be hard to imagine that I agree with you, but I do. I’m not sold on Edlefsen or Surkamp. I’m not understanding why we even signed Tanaka… His defense in the NPB was exactly the same as he has shown us. My point was more that Scutaro is not some Corvette we trash and turn back in to the rental agency next month. We got two more years of payments left on him…

I guess I worded that poorly, listing “all available” options. The point is, I think getting a longer evaluative look at a couple more prospects is the right thing to do at this point. Personally, I strongly disagree with those that want to see Peguero more than Perez. Or Brown more than any other CF prospect. It isn’t even close IMO. Not hardly. But I would simply welcome the change in mindset from the Train Bust- to put one of these guys in CF for crying out loud.

Cheers. YMMV.

channelclemente

I’m looking forward to Pequero passing through again.

hitman

Hey. Who thinks guitar man Zito will be in orange and black next year? Anybody can respond! Heh,heh,heh!!

Mr. Samsonite

Barry Zito can’t start on the road.

Barry Zito can’t start at home.

Barry Zito can start packing his bags.

ClutchUp

Dwreck says: August 21st, 2013 at 2:06 pm Clutch,
I disagree when you say that base stealing is not a skill and that its luck. You can work on the skills to be better and actually become better at it. It does have to do with luck and knowing a guys move sometimes or just that a pitcher is slow out of stretch, but that’s not always the case. As a base stealer, some guys are given the raw talent and others work on it and become good at it.

*** Wait…Dwreck did you read my 1:59, you’re correct it IS a skill, I was saying on a Lefty pitcher – most MLB/College and HS’s now teach to break immediately on LHP first move, thus there is some luck involved in picking the right moment to go. But your right – It IS a skill.
Tim Raines
Lou Brock
Maury Wills
Dave Roberts
Ishiro
Ellsbury etc – All work on their craft.

Silvio,
That’s not me being stupid…that is my opinion on how Botchy manages this team, especially this season! I would give Botchy a pass on how he’s managing today or recently, but he was managing the same way even when we were hanging in the race. In my opinion, Botchy is terrible has not earned his pay this year…along with some players!

The Giants will win their remaining 37 games, and finish the year at 93-69!

Dwreck

Ok, I misread your post Clutch…I apologize and am in agreement with you there! If the redsox want Machi like krukow claims many do, including Botchy, then I say farewell!

Polioptila Achtundzwanzig

Nice AB, by Pillow standards.

Reaper

Time to release Zito. He brings NOTHING, not even as an innings eater. Better to start the dreaded Kickham or good knows who AAA pitcher than see BZ one more time.

Jimmy Piersall

BoSox 6-1! Are the Giants laying down? On their stomachs?

MLBSF

smh – Lefty, thank you for mentioning that to Carmot. Tanaka and Edlefson have already solidified their respective niches as AAAA guys.

I awoke from a sound sleep out here on the yacht to see that Carmot’s meds are still all out of wack.

I see Mr. Zito is gone. Too bad his 2013 year has mirrored the teams pitiful play.

Has TF62 dropped by yet or is he watching catching DVD’s of Yadier Molina – smh

Taking a nap now with Brenda after a late lunch (yes another one I did say I surely did)

Maybe you and Mr. Lefty will consider coming out with us on the yacht?

Jamie Moyer

Oh that’s just great! Now Bochy brings in #59!

Matthew

Mr. Mavo – good to see your posts here. I wanted to respond to your earlier comments regarding Bruce Bochy.

Where I agree with you: he has proven to be the most successful manager in SF Giants history, as the team won those 2 World Series. That cannot be taken away, nor should it be discounted or ignored when discussing his tenure. He has worked extremely well with Sabean, and that relationship seems to be smooth and steady.

I am one that is not happy with the job he has done this season in so e instances. Examples include his predaliction in games to try to force chances to get starters a win opportunity when they appear to be toast. It has backfired. He has gone kitten soft on Pablo through some very hard times, and his leash was , in my view, way too long for a grossly underperforming player. His predisposition to be stuck with Lefty/lefty, righty/righty moves, even when stats, logic and hsitory say otherwise. His handling and absurdly short leash on certain younger players works when strong veteran performances justify that style, and he hasn’t had that backing this season … Now, this is clearly also ( and mostly) on Sabean, but Bochy’s continued predictable approach with this has led to predictable results. I still also believe he sets inconsistent rules for young players…Hector Sanchez may well turn into a fine catcher, but he is nowhere near MLB level defensively, and gets a much different treatment than Belt has gotten, as an example.

This doesn’t mean I don’t think he is capable of great things. It means I am unhappy often with lineup choices, in game moves ( and non-moves) and his part in roster decisions. I have and will continue to be a huge Giants fan forever. No question. I am loyal. I am watching this season knowing that there are no pennant aspirations, but there is still joy in watching the Giants. I grasp at the nuggets (Crawford and Belt’s development, Bumgarners emergence as staff ace, the ongoing ball field poetry of Buster Posey, and so on) . I honestly feel that Bochy has not had a good year.

Have you lost faith in me as a Giant fan because of this opinion?

Lefty

Carmot: I’m just giving you a hard time, but I agree with your point about overworking Scutaro. Like you said, we have two more years of payments on him, and he’ll be 38 in October. I’m guessing Noonan will be back on Sept. 1, and then he and Arias can let Scutaro rest his back and mallet finger and neck… (You may not be over 35, but I am, and everyone I know over that age has a neck thing or a shoulder thing or a back thing.)

MidasMicah has a good point about Dunning, and I know I keep hammering about Hembree, but the beat writer who used to occupy this space before Alex wrote this today:

“Hembree has dazzled over the past two months as the closer for Triple-A Fresno. Although he struggled for a 7.84 ERA in June, he rebounded for a 1.50 ERA in 19 appearances since July 1. His scoreless streak was at nine games entering Thursday, and his 30 saves are a Grizzlies franchise record.

Left-hander Mike Kickham, who recently rejoined the Giants from Fresno, said Hembree’s fastball is crackling and his slider has been a wipeout pitch.

Overall, Hembree has 60 strikeouts and 15 walks in 51 2/3 innings.”

channelclemente

Hembree and company will be here for September roster expansion, I suspect.

Silvio

Reaper says:
August 21st, 2013 at 2:30 pm
Time to release Zito. He brings NOTHING, not even as an innings eater. Better to start the dreaded Kickham or good knows who AAA pitcher than see BZ one more time.

Can you read? The Giants are not going to DFA a guy who helped them win the 2010 Pennant or the 2012 WS.

Zito is NOT Tejada, Rowand or Francoeur (Hey Eleuthero did I spell it right)

Idontgetit

The pop up boys of summer.

Billy Bandwagon

Giants blow! 70 losses!

Polioptila Achtundzwanzig

Brandi B enjoying his regression!

Matthew

I am DIGGIN’ the wit and targeted comments of Silvio’s posts….

channelclemente

Kickham looks like he’s raised his game. Wasn’t he more over the top, high 3/4 earlier.

Slayer Fan

hitman says:
August 21st, 2013 at 2:20 pm..

Hey. Who thinks guitar man Zito will be in orange and black next year? Anybody can respond! Heh,heh,heh!!

============
I think Zito would be a fine door greeter at Walmart.

Cazajejenes

Kickhim when he’s down!

carmot

Lefty:

Thanks for that. Yeah, I was/am a big proponent for bring Cody Hall up. But situations can and should be “fluid.” With Hembree pitching so well, as you represent… Bringing up a hot arm would give him the greatest opportunity to succeed IMO. It makes sense, I agree completely.

For a long while, Hembree had been dealing with control issues. Maybe he recently found some things to help his control. Or maybe it was just more repetition that allowed him to settle into better throwing mechanics and performance-based results. Whatever the case, we all recognize he has STUFF. Well, so does Hall. But I’m all for Hembree getting a good look while he has been performing so well. Especially since Hall hasn’t pitched in AAA yet.

C’mon Kick… C’mon man…

Cheers. Dream big. Dream GIANT.

Magic Johnson

I’ll say it here and now: THE DODGERS WILL 3-PEAT !!!

Rennie Stennett

Marco Scutaro has no range!

Silvio

Matthew says:
August 21st, 2013 at 2:35 pm

Thats a pretty great summation but some day in and day out lineup choices come from a pool of 13 position players of which Bochy has to choose eight to play the 8 defensive positions surrounding the mound. That said, its not nor ever has been a huge divide among choices. Sure he could have benched Sandoval or sat Scutaro but those are also the same guys who will play for him in 2014.

Thats a pretty great summation but some day in and day out lineup choices come from a pool of 13 position players of which Bochy has to choose eight to play the 8 defensive positions surrounding the mound. That said, its not nor ever has been a huge divide among choices. Sure he could have benched Sandoval or sat Scutaro but those are also the same guys who will play for him in 2014.

–Gaudin is on the DL. (Just checking: is “carpal tunnel” a French euphemism for “court date”?)
–Zito: Stick a fork in him.
–Kickham: Rumors of his recent progress appear to be overstated.

So…hole in the rotation. Does Surkamp get a start? He pitched last night for Fresno, so the timing would be right the next time the Gaudin/Zito slot comes up. But is he ready? Still barely a year since his Tommy John surgery?

Any chance Escobar gets a promotion from AA, now or next month, for a start or two? He’s on the 40-man already.

Matthew

Lefty: Edlefsen….

Couldn’t resist. sorry….

Jamie Moyer

I respectfully request removal of any reference to Giants #59 that I have made in this blog posting. I’ve made a mistake and I’m sorry.

Nice to see Jimmy Piersall in the house. The real Jimmy was a loon or is it lune ? who had some medical problems noted in *Fear Strikes Out* starring Anthony Perkins. Haha Jimmy ran the bases while facing backwards after he once hit a HR….

Does anybody else get the feeling that Boston’s position player bench is about ten players deep?

Pepe Le Pew

This Giants offense just stinks!

4 runs in 3 home games (and one of those was walked in)!

Dwreck

Some things Bochy must think about in the offseason to become a better manager going forward:

1. Better awareness when a pitcher is on the mound and has lost his stuff. (Too many times this season have we lost games because Bochy left a pitcher in too long or didn’t have another guy ready in the bullpen!)

2. Don’t always give veterans a free pass! If Hunter Pence or anybody on the team is 2-45 or whatever, you sit him down a day or two. Make the players more accountable, not just because they are in a funk, but because too many guys get in a funk on our team and continue to not change approach at the plate. It’s called adjustments guys!

3.Go with the hot hand and shuffle lineup more when things aren’t going well. I hate when someone on our team goes 3-4 and then sits the next day or longer. Change the lineup, let young guys play, drop guys in order if they aren’t hitting! These are the things a manager must manage Bochy!

4. Manufacture more runs! This one really kills me! We are not a power-hitting club, which everyone here knows, so why do we play like we are? Bunt guys over, throw in a squeeze every now and then, hit and run, do something different to create runs and maybe the offense will wake up. We lose too many games by a couple of runs, because we don’t manufacture runs very often. When a guy on the team continually can’t get a sacrifice down or hit a sac fly, then they need to sit the bench! Accountability!!! I understand you don’t do this all the time, but guys at the top of the lineup are supposed to be able to get these things done sometimes!!!

If anyone wants to add to this list feel free to do so! If bochy improves upon these things for next season, then I believe we will be back to our winning ways! Its easy to manage when everything is going well and we are winning, but bochy needs to improve when the team is in a funk, like they are this year!

Lefty

CC: You have a point. Drew’s 3-run HR into the RF stands was definitely out of Scutaro’s range. Maybe five years ago, but not now.

Lefty

Sorry for the snark, CC, but you did just tee that one right up for me…kind of like Kickham’s pitch to Drew–BA DA BOOM!

ClutchUp

hitman says:
August 21st, 2013 at 2:54 pm
Hey. Is there a final from the stick yet?

Yo Hitman … it think its a newer park now for @ 13 years.
Peace, out how’s Chavez Latrine these days?

By the way, at least your a REAL (Dodger) troll. The PA bore can’t touch you.

Let’s talk about something happier–young pitchers in the low minors. Specifically, Kendry Flores of the Augusta Green Jackets, who had fifteen (15!!!!) strikeouts in eight innings today and NO walks (6 hits, one run, no decision).

Flores is a 21-year-old RHP from the Dominican Republic. These are his stats for Augusta this year:

135 IP
9-6, 2.65 ERA
109 H, 17 BB, 134 K (WHIP below 1.00)

This is his first full pro season after several rookie/short season leagues. The Giants signed him 2009 when he was 16. 2012 first- and second-rounders Stratton and Agosta get all the attention, but Flores is arguably the best starter on the Green Jackets this year.

Monterey Bay Giants

It would be interesting to see if Kickham could put up a scoreless outing in the Little League World Series…I’m certainly not convinced.

Foothills Ryan

Silvio can’t be new. Too comfy. What’s the retired handle?

Dario Argento?? I dunno.

===

Feeling bearish on the Giants. Even the 2014 Giants. Anybody catch The Globe’s Schaughnessy’s comments about the Giants. Sort of encapsulates the pundits “flukey” claims. Basically says enjoy what you had because it’s time to get bearish on the Giants.

Need a magical winter. And a good September will go a long ways towards getting to .500 next year.

Something told me this game was over in the first inning when Torres got himself picked off with no one out and a 2-0 count on Scutaro. Then I knew it was over when Zito gave up the 2-run bomb with two outs and a pitcher that hasn’t batted all year on deck. This team is brutal. Please, we don’t need a ceremonial start from Zito. This was it. Thanks for the 2012 memories.

Polio, you win. Ever since you showed up with this new naming convention the entire season when to hell in a hand basket. Only problem is you were too efficient because now, with 36 games left, you’ll pretty much be conversing with yourself, which I think you probably do anyway.

Lefty

Kendry Flores is not even in the top-20 prospects of the Giants on MLB.com. Three other Augusta starters–Stratton, Agosta, and Gregorio–are on that list, but not Flores. It’s not surprising; his years at Salem-Keizer were “meh.”

Steve Kline is still the pitching coach in Augusta, isn’t he? Something good seems to happen to young pitchers when they pass through there. Look at Clayton Blackburn last year. He was a 16th round draft pick in 2011 and on no one’s radar, had a stellar season at age 19 in Augusta, and now he’s the Giants’ #2 prospect after Kyle Crick. I bet Flores is on that top prospects list next year, though.

channelclemente

Let’s challenge the SJMN IT police by making this a music blog.

kyle Perizi

Hey Gs :

Don’t let them take your shoes ( cleats ) !

Silvio

Mike Souza versus Just Wondering

Lefty

OK, Foothills. I call dibs on Blackburn. I’ve been taken with him since he was pitching in Augusta.

Can we share Escobar, or is he yours, too? I should modestly point out that a couple weeks ago, when Escobar won Eastern League Pitcher of the Week, I tweeted about it to the Flying Squirrels (the fun fact that he’s now won that honor in four different leagues). Escobar saw my tweet and retweeted it! So I think he likes me best.

channelclemente

It’s always a challenge to know if you should move a talented pitching coach who gets results closer to AAA, or leave him the hell alone.

Monterey Bay Giants

#167, Foothills, I will bet crotchety Boston writers who could break mirrors with their looks like Shaughnessy said the same thing about the 2010 Giants.

Sure this team has holes to fill, quite a few of them, but the core of Posey, Belt, Crawford, Bumgarner and Cain with the Kung Fu Manitee (to steal a phrase from Matthew) playing for a contract is as good as Boston’s core. Red Sox went through a horrible year last year as well then added depth for this year, it’s not just rained but poured this year and with a competent LF and a decent SP addition (and Pagan back) I think the Giant can contend next year.

Boston writers are just bitter all the time and everything they write needs to be taken with a grain of salt.

Matthew

Martha Davis. … By a mile.

Meow.

Lefty

Oh, and speaking of Escobar, he starts tonight for Richmond. Perfect timing for the next Gaudin/Zito/Kickham/Surkamp rotation slot. Just saying.

Ron Flores

I think the Giants should scour the U.S. penal system for homegrown major league caliber talent vs. the added costs of obtaining offshore talent!

Cazajejenes

Regression is Brandi B’s middle name!

Zito is Fine

Mike Souza says:
August 21st, 2013 at 3:21 pm
Zito sucks!

My only comment is that’s not HIS job …

Mister Cleo

The Giants will win their remaining 36 games, and finish the year at 92-70!

CC: I looked up Kline. He was the Augusta pitching coach in 2010-11 (so he had Zack Wheeler) but then moved to San Jose for 2012 and then returned to Augusta for 2013. So I guess he doesn’t get credit for Blackburn last year.

They’re doing something right in Augusta and San Jose, though–both of those pitching staffs are loaded, and not just in the starting rotation.

Dwreck

Well I am glad I wasted a few hours today watching that garbage! Oh well, see you all here again tomorrow for some more! Wait, isn’t that the definition of insanity? hahahahaha

Orange Giants Jersey

so much for Bochy giving Zito another chance. Thanks a lot for the embarassment.

channelclemente

Dwreck,

such is your lot, you appear to be a Giants fan in 2013. Me, I take it inning by inning, with no thought to a win or lose, just good or bad baseball, that is to say, scout’em. I’m also consuming more alcoholic spirits, hmm.

jd

Downgraded comcast. I was paying quite a bit more just to get CSN – no thanks, I’ll listen on the radio if I’m feeling particularly masochistic.

channelclemente

I know what you mean about performance at A and AA, but in the end, they have to overcome the PCL.

GSDubs

CC… way to completely misconstrue my post about Belt hitting in September- as trolling no less.

Dwreck

Channelclemente,

Hahahahaha! Thank you for that! You made me laugh and I really needed it after another terrible performance by our beloved Giants. I will consider your post before I start watching us get a beat down by the Pirates starting tomorrow!

channelclemente

Gsubs,

if I’ve misunderstood your Belt opinion, well I guess I’m sorry. In any case, the trolling comment might have been directed at the echo around your Belt post. My lad, it actually not all about you.

channelclemente

Dwreck,

I usually start early. BTW, did anyone expected a win today. Paying a debt is a matter of honor not income. I don’t particularly care if then win, just that they play better baseball, and quit disrespecting the game at every opportunity with the way they play.

Hey, what’s with all the criticism of Zito? Gosh, he only gave up ONE touchdown!? Oh … er … um … my bad.

Polioptila Achtundzwanzig

Wasn’t last night’s stirring come-from-behind victory supposed to mark a turning point in the season?

Anti-Lasorda

Kickham still has the sign taped to his back. Doesn’t look anywhere near MLB ready.

Foothills Ryan

Lefty,

Vegas Giants Fan called Escobar. I thought I did, but I was mistaken. In truth though, some Texas Rangers scout called dibs on him long ago in Venezuela.

ShuckS!

========

Let’s talk A’s baseball.

I think they will come up short. Tejas will take the West behind Yu, Garza, Beltre and Alex Rios !

stickman

Pathetic offense vs a so-so young lefthander. Really mailed it in today.

Thanx for the memories, Zito, but as of today you are sooo toast. Time for the gold watch ceremony. So Zits loses it and then its a matter of Kickham when he’s down. No hope for him anytime soon. He has got to learn something about trapping gophers. ML hitters are there because they can murder mistakes.

Maybe Surkamp will be the better bet in the more immediate future. Learning curve ahead for Kickham. Maybe a steep one. Mike does have a good BB-K ratio, but obviously he does throw some fat ones.

carmot

I’ll call dibs on Cody Hall.

Definitely got my attention in his first pro year, has continued to impress, and he has power closer potential… Maybe even rotation material if he continues to progress.

Have to agree, no Barry, no mas. To what end? Thanks for the memories.

Time to give the kids a shot. BTW, Kickham had better get his stuff together right now – he’s up here and Surkamp ain’t, but that’s just serendipity this season. From all the G/E updates, there’s a LOT of guys waiting in the wings.

I thought the Bosox lefty was junk today – couldn’t find the plate in the first 3 innings – and we did nada. Fairly disgusting… gilligan

Sal Bando

Foothills Ryan says:
August 21st, 2013 at 4:03 pm..

Let’s talk A’s baseball.
**********

A’s 12-3 vs. Houston Astros, 59-52 vs. the other 28 teams! Not Good!

Eleuthero

I’ve been critical of the owners of the Giants but I just don’t think it’s fair to lay this season on Bochy. The guy pushed all the right buttons in 2012. He was especially masterful at yanking pitchers at just the right time instead of being like Charlie Manual who always waited two batters too long.

Bochy should, however, get a little sterner about the mental mistakes the Giants are making in the last month. These guys make too much money to show the lack of pride and focus they’ve been displaying.

Eleuthero

Anti-Lasorda said:
Kickham still has the sign taped to his back. Doesn’t look anywhere near MLB ready.
*************************************************************

Kickham is proof that pitching, like real estate, is all about location, location, and location. Having good stuff is less important than where it’s located unless you have 95+ fastball speed.

Foothills Ryan

It’s the A’s rotation that concerns me.

Depending on big innings from Gray and Griffin. Colon wearing down without his stuff. Parker been good. How’s Straily of late? Bullpen blew a game last night.

Hey it’s a battle for the division and the A’s are in it at least.

NL a snooze fest save for the race to stay out of Wild Card play-in.

Jesse

The day the Giants lost their pitching, dark days were ahead. Exactly what happened this year

Polioptila Achtundzwanzig

On the bright side, my fellow Gnatfans, the Sawx only outscore our Halloween Heroes by 21-4 in the series, and it gets us closer to drafting the next Christina Arroyo!

Sam

Over 200 comments. I can’t believe anyone would tune in to a miday Wednesday Zito start with a team 15 games out.

Eleuthero

Jesse said:
The day the Giants lost their pitching, dark days were ahead. Exactly what happened this year
**********************************************************

Well, for several years the Giants have been living on pitching with Punch ‘n Judy lineups. That’s why I think we’re facing many years of mediocre to poor Giants teams ahead because, on paper, we’re probably about 11th out of 15 in the NL talent list. They have VERY little trade bait, most likely some of their bullpen guys like Casilla or Romo.

When you’ve got a 28th or 29th rated farm system out of 30 teams, a weak bench, a low-power line-up, and then add crapped-out pitching on top of all that, you’re not going to bounce back like a superball in one or two years. It’ll be obvious next season that this is going to be a VERY long term project to build this team back into a contender.

choyboy0724

Eleuthero…. I always thought you knew nothing and after post #218 its officially been confirmed.

fergie348

I just took a peek at the box score – Kickham really is Zito 2.0..

Lefty

Sam, we come here for the great community and support we all get from each other, of course. And where have YOU been, young man? I have some driving jobs for you to do.

Lefty

Here’s a stat I heard on KNBR after the game: Kickham has given up a home run in EVERY major league outing he’s had so far.

NOT. READY.

I think they should pretend he’s a CD or a target retirement fund or a nice bottle of wine and just park him in AAA for at least a full year. No call-ups. No peeking. Just forget about him until 2015. He probably needs a year not only to sort out his pitching problems but to undo the mental damage of this season.

ClutchUp

Machi to the RedSox?

Who’s gonna block?

Eleuthero

Choyboy said:
Eleuthero…. I always thought you knew nothing and after post #218 its officially been confirmed.
***********************************************************

Blogs are full of detestable people like you who simply insult people and don’t even say WHY they are insulting the person. However, I accept the “trashization” of people as part of New Millenium America so why should this blog be different? If you don’t make a POINT then you’re just a trolling a-hole. So, at least I told you WHY you’re an a-hole.

What happened to my beloved comments section on this great blog? There are more trolls, douche$ with 20 screen names and people who come only to insult, instigate and stir up $hit than there is fans and regular commenters. What a shame!

Foothills Ryan

Quite an epic battle, Kyle. So many fronts.

Any Eminence Fronts? Do you put The Who in the Final Four over Pink Floyd? That’s the final play-in.

The Who vs. Pink Floyd

to join The Beatles, Led Zeppelin, & The Rolling Stones.

…

CCR over Doobies

I’ll take the MLB field over the 2014 Giants. Sorry.

And Jeff Beck is top 5 all time. Like #5. Or maybe between 5-10. But plenty ahead of JM.

Polioptila Achtundzwanzig

On the bright side, my fellow Gnatfans, our Halloween Heroes only lost one game in the standings to the Puiggers tonight.

Please said:
Do not speak ill of Eleuthero for he is the Great St. Peter…
******************************************************

Yeah, I know about you blog MAFIA who think they’re the ne plus ultra of baseball knowledge just because you’re obsessed with it and spend half your sorry lives watching grown men throw, hit, and shoot balls.

You’re like a circle jerk of mutually reinforcing douches who stroke each other and pile on when anybody dares to contend with you “insiders”. God forbid that I actually quote a lot of stats because I AM A STATISTICIAN. Moreover, I’m a statistician who actually has a vocabulary. I know that chaps the hides of you “he-men”, you strong silent types who write one sentence denunciations of people because you’re the alpha and omega of baseball knowledge … which is a joke.

TheParadox

I’m glad that management is trying to think outside the box. Move Buster to third get a left fielder or first baseman and move Belt to left if necessary. Trade Panda.