> [{quoted}](name=Zanador,realm=EUNE,application-id=39gqIYVI,discussion-id=g7HJEyss,comment-id=0003000000000000,timestamp=2019-01-20T00:20:22.126+0000)
>
> Yeah, and Ezreal was an AP support, but both of them got changed hard. :)
the only change they made to TF in regards of AD, was that they change the mana gained from blue card to a higher base while taking away the AD scaling.
Other than that TF had the cdr removedf rom his e while increasing the attack speed gained, movementspeed buffs, some base damage adjustments (like 20 damage from his Q or soemthing), his e would stack on towers, his w would not get consume by wards, the ult ping, some changes regarding how long his w can be chosen and hold on to...
None of these reduced the strenght of TF as a botlane champ. What did happen was that new champions were added that outclassed him, making his early game a living hell to get through.
Speaking of Ezreal. This guy is also a botlaner as well as a midlaner.

> [{quoted}](name=Sefi,realm=EUNE,application-id=39gqIYVI,discussion-id=g7HJEyss,comment-id=00030000,timestamp=2019-01-19T23:13:10.979+0000)
>
> TF? Twisted fate is a marksman? Since when?
> {{sticker:zombie-brand-mindblown}}
He was in Season 2

Teemo and Quinn are toplane marksmen.
Kindred and Graves are junglers.
Corki and TF are commen in mid.
Mf has even managed to be a support at one time.
And that Lucian goes wherever he pleases is also nothing new.
So why should botlane be a class exclusive role?

Do not look for an adc mean down here.
These players tend to completly rely on their supp for vision, map awareness, engage and diseangage.
And this will lead to multiple instances of them giving up kills by ignoring pings.
I have had better experiences with taking a midlane player down to the buttom lane or just duo with the jungler.

I have the feeling no one really wants her to be more than nishe. because the moemnt she is more thant that, she outclasses everything. She is one of these straight forward champions that have a lot of stuff in their kid and have to sacrifice nothing in their build path.
Builds full AP and gets:
- More damage from save range
- More damage when jumping into you
- More healing
And because of how AP items are done she also gets:
- more cdr
- more mana
which gives her more mobility
She just has too much.

> [{quoted}](name=The7thSeal,realm=EUW,application-id=39gqIYVI,discussion-id=WpI1PJwf,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2019-01-19T09:56:44.073+0000)
>
> The difference there is that Nasus&#x27; stacks only benefit his Q, whereas Veigar&#x27;s stacks grant AP which benefits all of his abilities.
and veig also stacks by hitting an enemy with any ability

I have serious issues with reading this due to the terrible grammar, but I believe you want a system that gives out ranked restrictions for bad performances.
The main issue with that is that League has nothing that truely measures your performance. Going only by KDA would not work, since it is MOBA and not a fighting game as you can tell by how good the champions grades work, using the statistics is also flawed.
The other issue is, that it would defeat the point of LP, which sends you down in elo and mmr if you screw up too much.

:
He’s still an early game champion... he has to be he’s got nothing else going for him. He might be outclassed by other early game junglers but it doesn’t change the facts that if he’s not aggressive early he’s useless.
And he did take DH, until the rework and eventual killing of the summoner... now no one uses it.
Fleet footwork allows for easier and riskier clears, gives more early drake pressure, and lets him skirmish with the other strong early game junglers. It does make sense especially for match ups that require facing someone you can’t outright bully.

> [{quoted}](name=swampert919,realm=EUW,application-id=39gqIYVI,discussion-id=ZyAppZkc,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2019-01-17T16:50:51.743+0000)
>
> He’s still an early game champion... he has to be he’s got nothing else going for him. He might be outclassed by other early game junglers but it doesn’t change the facts that if he’s not aggressive early he’s useless.
>
> And he did take DH, until the rework and eventual killing of the summoner... now no one uses it.
>
> Fleet footwork allows for easier and riskier clears, gives more early drake pressure, and lets him skirmish with the other strong early game junglers. It does make sense especially for match ups that require facing someone you can’t outright bully.
The bonus movementspeed also helps him to stick to enemies and avoid their skillshots.
Or outrun them to place a box in their way.

> [{quoted}](name=Vegito101,realm=EUNE,application-id=NzaqEm3e,discussion-id=qmTkPXn8,comment-id=000300000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-01-17T04:01:22.402+0000)
>
> why so toxic towards others ,show some respect
I just listed possabilities which would make this kinda behavoir understandable. I did not claim that any of these are actually true for anyone. For all I know, all toxic people could be trained agents of the US-Goverment to ruin the online gaming experience, so people stop playing them and focus on other stuff.
But that as well is just a (very crazy) possability.

I think leaver buster is a completly legit thing. There just needs to be a punishment for those who just leave games.
But loosing LP even if you win the game is too much.
I can see, where it comes from. If you afk and recoonect when your team finishes the nexus, you should not be rewared 20LP for that win. Sure, I get it.
The system should be a little more complex than that.
Compare the afk time of a player with the game time and depending on that reduce the LP amount a player gains for a win by a amount.
That can go down to 0, if the player was afk for most of the game.
Should the team loose you can also increase the LP loss the same way.
Leaverbuster should still apply.

> [{quoted}](name=Vegito101,realm=EUNE,application-id=NzaqEm3e,discussion-id=qmTkPXn8,comment-id=0003000000000000,timestamp=2019-01-14T22:28:34.586+0000)
>
> well like i said Riot rules suck like everyone who support it
Your opinion.
These rules are so easy to follow that I sometimes wonder what must be wrong with people who actually manage to get banned.
I can imagein a certain amount of them being early teens who believe that insulting is cool, but but of course some are also just not that clever. Some might do suffer from mental health issues and other can just be from THAT kind of families.
Or maybe they are just very sad humans beings that overreact angrily over the tinies thing.

:
> 5. False bans can easily be revoked by contacting the support.
To show you how false is your statement i will focus only on this 5th point.My main account get banned for 14 days for this :
Game 1
In-Game
captaincomando1: 1 hit
captaincomando1: \dont say that you get ban
captaincomando1: poewer of kartus
captaincomando1: heh
Post-Game
captaincomando1: i will not report you
captaincomando1: coz i undestand you
captaincomando1: u are just tiklted
captaincomando1: all good my man
captaincomando1: but you could get ban
captaincomando1: specialy for saying %%%
captaincomando1: newer use that word in chat mate
captaincomando1: it trigger autoban siystem
captaincomando1: it was
captaincomando1: dont use %%% ever
captaincomando1: u did once
captaincomando1: truste me i have to muche xperience with it
captaincomando1: yeah... it hapens
see here I teach this dude not to use certain words on chat because he can get automatic ban.And me trying to help him get me ban(did not know bot monitors post game chat loby). ..Because system bot works like that... And when i send my ticket to riot support i get 0 answer from them,just blitz bot copying my text .They cant even answer to ticket ....And you tell me how false ban can easily be revoked... Please tell that fairy tail to someone who play game for the first time...

> [{quoted}](name=Vegito101,realm=EUNE,application-id=NzaqEm3e,discussion-id=qmTkPXn8,comment-id=00030000,timestamp=2019-01-14T19:22:09.768+0000)
>
> To show you how false is your statement i will focus only on this 5th point.My main account get banned for 14 days for this :
> Game 1
> In-Game
> captaincomando1: 1 hit
> captaincomando1: \dont say that you get ban
> captaincomando1: poewer of kartus
> captaincomando1: heh
> Post-Game
> captaincomando1: i will not report you
> captaincomando1: coz i undestand you
> captaincomando1: u are just tiklted
> captaincomando1: all good my man
> captaincomando1: but you could get ban
> captaincomando1: specialy for saying %%%
> captaincomando1: newer use that word in chat mate
> captaincomando1: it trigger autoban siystem
> captaincomando1: it was
> captaincomando1: dont use %%% ever
> captaincomando1: u did once
> captaincomando1: truste me i have to muche xperience with it
> captaincomando1: yeah... it hapens
>
> see here I teach this dude not to use certain words on chat because he can get automatic ban.And me trying to help him get me ban(did not know bot monitors post game chat loby). ..Because system bot works like that... And when i send my ticket to riot support i get 0 answer from them,just blitz bot copying my text .They cant even answer to ticket ....And you tell me how false ban can easily be revoked... Please tell that fairy tail to someone who play game for the first time...
A false ban can be revoked. But your ban isn't false.
Using a trigger word, no matter the reason, will result in a punishment. That is a well known fact, as well as that the post-game lobby is getting monitored as well (thanks to individuals who spammed hundreds of lines of insults there) for some time now.
Riot is very strict with it's rulings and they will always tell you that your actions alone will be used as evidence in your cases.

People who have not the slightest ability in using logic...
Here is some an easy to understand list of points, so maybe that will help you:
1. To reduce the amount and severity of negative experiences in their game, riot aims to punish and even rid the servers of accounts which users cause such.
2. Because of the sheer amount of players and accounts, it is impossible to handle punishments manually. Any company would go bankrupt trying to gather the amount of employes necessary.
3. To still somehow punish as much behavoir as possible, an automated system, with the players as its core has been created.
Players can sent out reports, which leads to the games being checked and if an account has build up an "reputation" for itning, these games are getting manually reviewed, while by using keywords, it is not necesarry to do the same for chat.
4. Player through around reports for anything without even knowing what they are reporting for, what forced riot to make the system wait up for a certain amount of reports in a certain time before taking action. Otherwise "stomps" would lead to 5 players getting banned each game.
4.1 That means that the behavoir of the players to notoriously report, claiming everything to be inting or trolling, is what makes the system work so slowly.
5. False bans can easily be revoked by contacting the support.

:
That is pretty much the core of the whole issue, summed up. The current punishment system is not perfect, there is no denying that, but quite simply nobody was able to come up with a better one in the past 10 years.
Banning someone from PVP would just dump them all down to the co-op matches where the new players would have to deal with them. And co-op is already full of trolls, afks and flamers, at least i've never seen a match without one.
Banning toxic people from ranked is also often suggested, but competitive players would just start a new account just the way they do now, since they are not interested in playing normals, or they would be just toxic in normals now, which is again not a solution, just a displacement of the problem.
Other suggestions usually can be broken down to people only wanting to get punishments they can ignore.

> [{quoted}](name=Zanador,realm=EUNE,application-id=NzaqEm3e,discussion-id=0mNHTft2,comment-id=00120000,timestamp=2019-01-13T19:08:58.021+0000)
>
> That is pretty much the core of the whole issue, summed up. The current punishment system is not perfect, there is no denying that, but quite simply nobody was able to come up with a better one in the past 10 years.
>
> Banning someone from PVP would just dump them all down to the co-op matches where the new players would have to deal with them. And co-op is already full of trolls, afks and flamers, at least i&#x27;ve never seen a match without one.
> Banning toxic people from ranked is also often suggested, but competitive players would just start a new account just the way they do now, since they are not interested in playing normals, or they would be just toxic in normals now, which is again not a solution, just a displacement of the problem.
> Other suggestions usually can be broken down to people only wanting to get punishments they can ignore.
Yeah, basicly.
Tough now that you want deeper into the matter, people at least had no reason to complain about investing money into the game with the "remove from ranked" thing. So it would at least have one thing over actual bans.

As if Riot could even enforce a META. Their game knowledge is just too low for that.
Everytime Riot does a change to push the game in a direction, the game ends up somewhere totally else.
Like when they wanted to open up bot for other champions (what kinda worked out in the end) and totally screwed over everything.
Also, if they would not care, they would have stopped changing the game all together.
It would be like CS:GO, where there is not actualy punishment for anything and no one does actually work on the game anymore.

:
I play since mid season 2 with no breaks, so yeah. And no, I'm not delusional, I just did the math, like mortdog here: https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/developer-corner/Jh3Mtzu6-blue-essence-earn-rates-learning-the-numbers-with-carl-and-henrietta
J4's age really has nothing to do with his price. Iirc he's still at the price he was when he came out, which is 1500 lower than any recent champion.
To grind a 6300 champion in the old days you would have had to play about 75 games on average if we assume a 50% WL ratio, including first win of the day bonuses. If we assume a game takes about 45 min you'd have been playing for 56+ hours straight. In 48 hours. Ok then.
Btw: Here's the leveling chart for 1-30 http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/Experience_(summoner) . Please tell me more about how we got champions faster in the old days...

> [{quoted}](name=Nightangael,realm=EUW,application-id=39gqIYVI,discussion-id=rAzJgoq3,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2019-01-13T11:56:06.002+0000)
>
> I play since mid season 2 with no breaks, so yeah. And no, I&#x27;m not delusional, I just did the math, like mortdog here: https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/developer-corner/Jh3Mtzu6-blue-essence-earn-rates-learning-the-numbers-with-carl-and-henrietta
>
> J4&#x27;s age really has nothing to do with his price. Iirc he&#x27;s still at the price he was when he came out, which is 1500 lower than any recent champion.
not to mention that you do not need rune-pages anymore, really.

:
10000% correct
keep fighting ritos stupid believes
said it a million times myself
this forced positivity, this no freedom of speech in league, this kindergarten policy
its vile and ridiculous
they cater to SJW's, casuals, and special snowflakes.

> [{quoted}](name=Thaakillah,realm=EUW,application-id=NzaqEm3e,discussion-id=0mNHTft2,comment-id=00040000,timestamp=2019-01-13T11:23:28.042+0000)
>
> 10000% correct
> keep fighting ritos stupid believes
> said it a million times myself
> this forced positivity, this no freedom of speech in league, this kindergarten policy
> its vile and ridiculous
> they cater to SJW&#x27;s, casuals, and special snowflakes.
forcing positivity would mean that you get banned if you do not write at least 5 praises every game, or do not honor a player after a game. This does not happen.
Riot is, at best, enforcing a minimum of neutrality, since they do not give a damn about your positive chat-behavoir, but punishing your for your very negative chat-behavoir.
Thoug negative her means: being annoying, making people beleive you are below 13-years old, making believe you are a psychopath, chatting so much that is a legit cause of a loss, messanges that if communicated over mobile devices, would lead to the police arriving at your place around 15 minutes later anf of course.
Some of these points can be boiled down to "being so toxic, that no one wants ot play with you".
And a tip: If you write something that can potentially lead to your nose getting broken, when said to people, they are not snowflakes, but you are being unbearable.

I have a problem with perma bans as well, but the only other punishment I came up with were:
- block them out from PVP for a certain amount of (won) games or time.
- just remove them from Ranked and force them into autofill with chat restriction.
- reduce their LP gain (not increase LP loss).
and I do not think these are that good... The strategy behind them is too annoy a player into thinking that their toxic behavoir is just not worth it.
Perma-Bans have more of the strategy to get rid of them or frustrate them out of their behavoir.
The issue is that a perma-ban also ereases the track record of that player, since they will play on a account with a white-west, then.
But as long as no-one comes up with a better punishment, they are necessary.
Chat-Restrictions are not punishments for toxic people, but rather a punishment for their entire team, since the lack of communication can set them at a disatvantage. Especially in higher elo, where pointing out summoner timers uptimes, can be crucial for roam and ganking behavoir of your team (instead of having to scroll through hundred lines of pings to find a ping about the enemy summoners that may or may not indicate them using up to a minute before the ping).
The lack of communication already turns Solo/Duo-Q into an entirely different game from 5-player-Flex.
Not to mention that people with chat-restriction can also be these people who spam-ping just to annoy you, once they have their pings up again. And a ping restriction would be really stupid.

Riot would start to nerf items.
Because after receiving nothing but nerfs for 3 years, he has such low scalings, that some champs have more on one ability than he has in his entire kit. Especially since his AP scaling is barely ever used.
And his base damage is also low.
If this champ does not manage to get his hands on a duskblade earlier than his opposing jungler, by farming of people who forget that junglers exist, then he does not even really exist in a game.

:
It’s really ironic you know... that you asked for a Warwick level rework to make him look like he does in the cinematic.
Do you wanna know why he looks different, cause garen already got a VGU... the cinematic is older and thus is based off his old model.
That’s why everything is off, it’s not the in game model that’s out it’s the cinematic, it’s extremly outdated (twist of fate came out in what 2012...).

> [{quoted}](name=swampert919,realm=EUW,application-id=39gqIYVI,discussion-id=zApYERo4,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2019-01-12T04:24:43.808+0000)
>
> It’s really ironic you know... that you asked for a Warwick level rework to make him look like he does in the cinematic.
>
> Do you wanna know why he looks different, cause garen already got a VGU... the cinematic is older and thus is based off his old model.
>
> That’s why everything is off, it’s not the in game model that’s out it’s the cinematic, it’s extremly outdated (twist of fate came out in what 2012...).
Here I want to mention that Braon Nashors was updated to look like in the cinematic around 2 and a half years later...
And people are suprised that Orianna's design contraditcs her law or that Annie still looks nothing like in her own cinematic...

:
its still better that EVERYONE oneshots than just having a few champs with oneshot potencial and the rest just sitting ducks... just look up a few champs a few seasons ago and youll know what im talking about (or check out FrostPrime on youtube: how op champs used to be, its fun)
you know, if everyone is op then noone is

> [{quoted}](name=FleaLess,realm=EUNE,application-id=39gqIYVI,discussion-id=pQHYbsVF,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-01-11T18:38:53.402+0000)
>
> its still better that EVERYONE oneshots than just having a few champs with oneshot potencial and the rest just sitting ducks... just look up a few champs a few seasons ago and youll know what im talking about (or check out FrostPrime on youtube: how op champs used to be, its fun)
>
>
> you know, if everyone is op then noone is
With that attitude we should remove all champions and make everyone Garen...
Assassins are currently in a bad spot, because bruisers deal more damage while being able to sustain against more damage.

:
The fun begins when you end up spending £1-2k then permanently banned because kids are reporting you cuz you ask for wards or to stop feeding.
In order of Riot to maintain the income for the investors they invented this Tribunal system where everyone can decide over the players accounts..in this way, you get banned after money are spent, you open new account and shortly start spending again.
Riot games has become something they weren't originally, until they got investors from China, then everything has changed.
The Chinese plague of investors are ruining every single game on the market at the moment, Blizzard is the latest victim.

> [{quoted}](name=Staticflow,realm=EUW,application-id=2BfrHbKG,discussion-id=ATLpOrbO,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2019-01-11T15:47:45.736+0000)
>
> The fun begins when you end up spending £1-2k then permanently banned because kids are reporting you cuz you ask for wards or to stop feeding.
> In order of Riot to maintain the income for the investors they invented this Tribunal system where everyone can decide over the players accounts..in this way, you get banned after money are spent, you open new account and shortly start spending again.
> Riot games has become something they weren&#x27;t originally, until they got investors from China, then everything has changed.
> The Chinese plague of investors are ruining every single game on the market at the moment, Blizzard is the latest victim.
No one will believe you, if you claim that you get banned for "Can you ward the tribush?" or "You are getting camped, so stop pushing out."
I can imagine what your chat looks like. And telling people to change how they play is not your main focus.

> [{quoted}](name=MirirPaladin,realm=EUW,application-id=2BfrHbKG,discussion-id=ATLpOrbO,comment-id=,timestamp=2019-01-11T14:56:38.104+0000)
>
> **You are making players aware of how much money they are actually paying for cosmetics.**
>
I do agree, that this should never happen.
Making your customer realize how much money they throw out is never good. They might get second thoughts and you do not want that.

I would also go for {{champion:163}} and also for {{champion:18}} (not tat the same time. Too much "YEAAAAAH", for one room) as the first and... {{champion:112}} , {{champion:51}} , {{champion:114}} or {{champion:75}} . Someone who knows what's going on and you can rely on if you have any questions (like: "How do I sign up for classes?" or "When was X again?").

:
> [{quoted}](name=Gabresol,realm=EUW,application-id=39gqIYVI,discussion-id=0tUbRNBn,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2019-01-11T12:04:45.132+0000)
>
> Morgana has a huge history of being a viable midlane pick.
You mean *support* pick. She was originally designed as a mid laner - and back in season 3-4 any Morgana support pick was deemed a troll, until it was used in the LCS.

> [{quoted}](name=Shiwah,realm=EUW,application-id=39gqIYVI,discussion-id=0tUbRNBn,comment-id=00040000,timestamp=2019-01-11T13:03:13.506+0000)
>
> You mean *support* pick. She was originally designed as a mid laner - and back in season 3-4 any Morgana support pick was deemed a troll, until it was used in the LCS.
Ah, yes. That way around. Though for last 2 season she was more of a support that went mid.

The brackets you see when selecting a champion are results of where they are played, not something riot made up.
Sion was not designed as a support, but guess where he is working the best...
Morgana has a huge history of being a viable midlane pick.
Do you believe Lux was designed for support?
Neither was Gragas for jungle.
Champions swith their most viable role a lot, alone during one season and riot is not finding that stuff out.

From what I see in videos. The current dominant high elo meta is sending a mage on the botlane and send either a marksman or a bruiser into the jungler with a support to funnel. The duo is also farming on toplane, what works due to how small the map is.
You can easily take jungle and gank bot without loosing even one minion on top.

There are tons of problems that not only keep female player away from competetive, but also make the organisation afraid of taking them in:
- Sexual tension between players (or worse, the players guardiance and superiors)
- discomfort that can come with being a 1 to 4+ minority
- the incredible stupid and toxic community this game has and that WILL harass that female player
- the fear of failing and therefore creating a bad example for the future
and I bet you could come up with even more.

Neeko is... a weird case of a champion.
She is like Karthus.
A champion that can very will one-shot you, but is not that diffecult to throw boulders in her way.
Her ults might deal tons of damage, but how excactly she gets that ult off, is what makes it... not that big of a deal.
She needs to run into the enemy team to do it... And if you you are not allerted by an enemy running towards you, it is entirely your fault.
Her skillshot is not diffecult to avoid and evne with it, she won't be hitting all of her Q explosions.

as menstioned. Most enchanters rely on having good carries since all they do is, well... enchant.
Sona is an exception, because she can easily go from enchanter to burst-mage and Nami is one as well, since the sheer amount of utiliy, cc + her healing make her some kind of superior enchanter that can turn games with just one spell-combo.
And because of this carry reliance, champs like Fiddlesticks or Brand, whose kits work on botlane and can also easily kill carries on their own, are currently reigning supreme as supports.
So it would be best to uses these kinda champions for climbing.

:
Seeing that all the popular AD assassins are in the 49-51% winrate window, they seem to be perfectly fine. If they were that failsafe easy, they would rek low elo(and have super inflated winrates) where games are mostly decided by who makes less mistakes (as everyone does a ton) and snowballs the hardest

> [{quoted}](name=Dividedby0error,realm=EUW,application-id=39gqIYVI,discussion-id=Gr0mttgq,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2019-01-06T11:31:00.811+0000)
>
> Seeing that all the popular AD assassins are in the 49-51% winrate window, they seem to be perfectly fine. If they were that failsafe easy, they would rek low elo(and have super inflated winrates) where games are mostly decided by who makes less mistakes (as everyone does a ton) and snowballs the hardest
their itemizations is easy.
But in a time where bruisers and supports deal the same damage, but ar eeither safer or need to take like 3 times the damage of an assassin to die, they are just not that good.
Everything bursts, so assassins, who can only do that, are not good.
Maybe if their itemization would not be 2 items, but there would be more situational, that would not be the case.

:
Dude... it's a TEAM game, emphasis on team.
Like football you can't have a team full of attackers.
You have to have a goalkeeper and defenders who main do that.
God forbid you have to also rely on your team in a team game

> [{quoted}](name=Ákali exe,realm=EUNE,application-id=39gqIYVI,discussion-id=ExdUYqfU,comment-id=000000010000,timestamp=2019-01-06T10:51:18.998+0000)
>
> Dude... it&#x27;s a TEAM game, emphasis on team.
>
> Like football you can&#x27;t have a team full of attackers.
>
> You have to have a goalkeeper and defenders who main do that.
>
> God forbid you have to also rely on your team in a team game
The popular ranked mode is anything but a team game...
You might be teamed up with 4 other people playing a against another group of 5 people, but calling that a 5v5 is like calling Town of Salem or soemthing similar a Team-Game.
The difference between playing as an actual Team vs how a random group plays is so different that you might call it a different game.

:
the funny thing i can say as an ex support main / now i am kinda getting back into it again :
many many supports actualy completely delet the concept of an ad assassine ..
zed is countered by janna lulu soraka tarik tahmkench thresh .. the list goes on
talon : same list to be honest
rengar .. he is always countered by everything that denys him to instantly oneshot or ccs him ..
kayne : depends ..
wukong : ok he is not realy affected if he plays it correctly
khazix depends on champions and playstyle .. but more often than not a non fed khazix will just bounce off of an adc who is suported by nami

> [{quoted}](name=paranormal0001,realm=EUW,application-id=39gqIYVI,discussion-id=Gr0mttgq,comment-id=0000000000010000000000000000,timestamp=2019-01-05T23:40:12.368+0000)
>
> the funny thing i can say as an ex support main / now i am kinda getting back into it again :
>
> many many supports actualy completely delet the concept of an ad assassine ..
> zed is countered by janna lulu soraka tarik tahmkench thresh .. the list goes on
> talon : same list to be honest
> rengar .. he is always countered by everything that denys him to instantly oneshot or ccs him ..
> kayne : depends ..
> wukong : ok he is not realy affected if he plays it correctly
> khazix depends on champions and playstyle .. but more often than not a non fed khazix will just bounce off of an adc who is suported by nami
That has nothing to do with the itemization issues of AD-Assassins, being that they have like 8 items they can decide between and two of them being fix, because riot thought about giving them damage and that's it.
Riot gave assassins (and MF + Jhin) and item ( {{item:3147}} ) that is basicly worth 2 and then stopped thinking about how they cannot itemize for certain situations.
It is like they made duskblade as strong as possible (cc, bonus damage, vision control, 21 lethality, AD, cdr) just to be able to ignore that they have just 3 items designed for them.
So there is not much thinking involved with getting your item as say Zed, because there is no choice to be done.

:
you do realize that having basicly only 3 items they can build while having close to only ad and lethality in their items for ad assassines
while having a lot of different items with :cdr, infinit-mana, burst, penetration, grevious wounds, and defensiv options as an ap assassine is not an argument that speaks for ad assassines being op, do you ?
ap itemization is kinda op to be honest ..
you fight an assassine ? {{item:3157}}
you fight an ad champion ? {{item:3157}}
you fight a mage ? {{item:3102}}
you fight a tank ?{{item:3135}}
you fight a realy persistant tank ? {{item:3151}} {{item:3116}}
you fight a squishy carry ? {{item:3285}} {{item:3089}}
you have mana issues ?{{item:3285}} or {{item:3040}}
you need sustain ?{{item:3027}}
you feel like you want a huuuge shield ?{{item:3040}}
you want to be extremely defensive lategame without anyone realizing it while still having great attackpower ?
{{item:3027}} {{item:3040}} {{item:3116}} {{item:3151}} | and {{item:3102}} {{item:3157}} {{item:3135}} {{item:3089}} 2 of those|
do you realize a mage has options for literaly every scenario he might have to fight against ?

> [{quoted}](name=paranormal0001,realm=EUW,application-id=39gqIYVI,discussion-id=Gr0mttgq,comment-id=000000000001000000000001,timestamp=2019-01-05T23:34:53.644+0000)
>
> you do realize that having basicly only 3 items they can build while having close to only ad and lethality in their items for ad assassines
> while having a lot of different items with :cdr, infinit-mana, burst, penetration, grevious wounds, and defensiv options as an ap assassine is not an argument that speaks for ad assassines being op, do you ?
>
> ap itemization is kinda op to be honest ..
>
> you fight an assassine ? {{item:3157}}
> you fight an ad champion ? {{item:3157}}
> you fight a mage ? {{item:3102}}
> you fight a tank ?{{item:3135}}
> you fight a realy persistant tank ? {{item:3151}} {{item:3116}}
> you fight a squishy carry ? {{item:3285}} {{item:3089}}
> you have mana issues ?{{item:3285}} or {{item:3040}}
> you need sustain ?{{item:3027}}
> you feel like you want a huuuge shield ?{{item:3040}}
> you want to be extremely defensive lategame without anyone realizing it while still having great attackpower ?
> {{item:3027}} {{item:3040}} {{item:3116}} {{item:3151}} | and {{item:3102}} {{item:3157}} {{item:3135}} {{item:3089}} 2 of those|
>
> do you realize a mage has options for literaly every scenario he might have to fight against ?
Who says they are OP?
Besides some exception, Assassins are currently in a bad spot overall, from what I have seen.
My complaint is not about assassins being strong or weak, but their itemization just being a straight line.
As you said, Mages have this variety of items they can build depending on their situation!
AD-Assassins have like 8 items overall they can chooses between and duskblade and youmous are build no matter what.
AD-Assassins have no real itemization. Riot could force certain items to be bought on them when being back in base and some people would not even realize it.
AD-Assassin itemization ist just boring and unflexible.
In that term, you could even call them underpowered in a way, but then they have {{item:3147}} what can be argued to be wort 2 items, so I guess it is debatable

:
That message is intentionally set to rarely pop up under certain conditions. Most reports you issue that ultimately aid in punishing a player will not trigger this message for you.
Your proof is honestly not proof. I can simply counter it by stating that I actually don't encounter toxic behavior in most of my games. Most players treat me the same way I treat them, and I treat them nice.

> [{quoted}](name=Hansiman,realm=EUW,application-id=NzaqEm3e,discussion-id=3HxxboaX,comment-id=00000000000000000000,timestamp=2018-12-31T12:04:42.543+0000)
>
> That message is intentionally set to rarely pop up under certain conditions. Most reports you issue that ultimately aid in punishing a player will not trigger this message for you.
>
> Your proof is honestly not proof. I can simply counter it by stating that I actually don&#x27;t encounter toxic behavior in most of my games. Most players treat me the same way I treat them, and I treat them nice.
I get it 3 times a day sometimes. WOuldn't call that "rarely"

> [{quoted}](name=kisaragi LaKill,realm=EUW,application-id=39gqIYVI,discussion-id=Gr0mttgq,comment-id=0000000000010000,timestamp=2019-01-05T15:13:29.734+0000)
>
> well yeah,every ad assassin builds lethality,maybe because its for oneshotting people and assassins are there to do that idk wtf u want assassins to build titanic hydra or attack speed wtf
Items Mages buy early in their match up:
Depending on champion in a equal match-up: {{item:3802}} -> {{item:3285}} or {{item:3010}} -> {{item:3027}} or {{item:3070}}
If match-up is an assassin -> instead: {{item:3191}} -> {{item:3157}}
If up against a bad mage match-up: {{item:3102}}
AD-Assassins:
Depending on champion in a equal match-up: {{item:3134}}
If match-up is an assassin -> instead: {{item:3134}}
If up against a bad mage match-up: {{item:3134}} or (if loosing) {{item:3155}} and then {{item:3134}}
Laning-phase as an Ad-Assassin is the most simple (not easiest but most simple) task in the entire game.
There is no "If X, then Y" scenario you have to think about when playing them.
The sheer lack of decision making in the item-paths is what makes them easier then other champions.

> [{quoted}](name=Crablobster10,realm=EUW,application-id=39gqIYVI,discussion-id=Gr0mttgq,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2019-01-05T09:11:12.391+0000)
>
> Damn I can tell you don’t play many assassins
Then tell me, master of the hidden knowledge of assassins, when and how do item-paths differ harshly depending on the assassin you picked, match up you are playing or state of the entire game.

:
" AP ASSASSINS ARE HARD "
Meanwhile:
{{champion:131}} press Q and R = oneshot no reaction time ggwp
{{champion:103}} hit charm gg wp
{{champion:105}} press R
{{champion:55}} in late game hit dagger + hextech gunblade proc gg
{{champion:7}} HAHA
{{champion:76}} smash keyboard oneshot
{{champion:142}} HAHA v2
Now,since Im mid main and I played {{champion:141}} {{champion:238}} [main] and {{champion:91}}
So now lets start one by one:
{{champion:141}} can definitely not miss his whole combo and oneshot if not extremely fed like full build or couple of levels above,in this meta definitely not.
{{champion:238}} Early game,if enemy is full HP,at level 6 if he goes all in with hitting all abilities he still has to attack them more + ignite in order to get a kill.If he gets really fed all he has to do is R and E,AA.I won't deny that,but there is so much counterplay to that like: {{item:3157}} or armour or supports with shields.
{{champion:91}} talon cant oneshot you at level 2 from full hp,first he has to poke u a bit and get u around 70-80% hp then you are dead because he has double ignite [ bleeding passive + ignite " .But late game he falls pretty off,if he goes all in on ADC and adc gets shielded by some support,he is doomed,can't escape if no walls nearby and will probably get cced meanwhile.
{{champion:62}} he was sooo broken before nerfs ,you literally died as soon as he pressed R no reaction time at all,Im pretty sure he does the same thing now but when fed.

> [{quoted}](name=kisaragi LaKill,realm=EUW,application-id=39gqIYVI,discussion-id=Gr0mttgq,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2019-01-04T23:33:27.828+0000)
>
> &quot; AP ASSASSINS ARE HARD &quot;
>
> Meanwhile:
> {{champion:131}} press Q and R = oneshot no reaction time ggwp
> {{champion:103}} hit charm gg wp
> {{champion:105}} press R
> {{champion:55}} in late game hit dagger + hextech gunblade proc gg
> {{champion:7}} HAHA
> {{champion:76}} smash keyboard oneshot
> {{champion:142}} HAHA v2
>
> Now,since Im mid main and I played {{champion:141}} {{champion:238}} [main] and {{champion:91}}
> So now lets start one by one:
>
> {{champion:141}} can definitely not miss his whole combo and oneshot if not extremely fed like full build or couple of levels above,in this meta definitely not.
> {{champion:238}} Early game,if enemy is full HP,at level 6 if he goes all in with hitting all abilities he still has to attack them more + ignite in order to get a kill.If he gets really fed all he has to do is R and E,AA.I won&#x27;t deny that,but there is so much counterplay to that like: {{item:3157}} or armour or supports with shields.
> {{champion:91}} talon cant oneshot you at level 2 from full hp,first he has to poke u a bit and get u around 70-80% hp then you are dead because he has double ignite [ bleeding passive + ignite &quot; .But late game he falls pretty off,if he goes all in on ADC and adc gets shielded by some support,he is doomed,can&#x27;t escape if no walls nearby and will probably get cced meanwhile.
> {{champion:62}} he was sooo broken before nerfs ,you literally died as soon as he pressed R no reaction time at all,Im pretty sure he does the same thing now but when fed.
Now... what does that have anything to do with the items?
Because, sure, you could make an entire server filled with threads on how stupid gunblade is, but that, like this whole thread, has nothing to do with mechanics of the champions.
I only ciritsize the itemization of AD assassins, which has close to no differences in it's path, no matter the champion, the match-up or the state of the game.

:
> [{quoted}](name=Gabresol,realm=EUW,application-id=39gqIYVI,discussion-id=U8EfqWHA,comment-id=00020000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2018-12-31T19:02:52.176+0000)
>
> 3 Pyke games this months, in that in the last 2 weeks. I am level 3 on him...
> Not to mention I that I barelay had impact compared to a fed Yasuo or Fizz.
> I play far more obnoxious champions like Nami, Tahm Kench, Fiddlesticks or Thresh when Season is on and my thinking about what champ to play does not stop at just seeing the champion first when picking.
> All of the above, hard-counter Pyke btw.
>
> But if your line of thoughts stops at &quot;No, I am right! And everyone who disagress with me if stupid!&quot;, then maybe you should not even bother opening a thread, since it is either going to get ignores or the amount of people disagreeing with you will force you to open up a dictionary to look up more insults.
I didn't say i am right, but atm no one shares me any sort of proper arguments why this cancer should stay in the game. U just cried about hecarim and the fact he can oneshot someone. Cool, he can 1shot 1 person, what pyke can do to whole team and easily escape tho.

> [{quoted}](name=ActuallyBanned,realm=EUNE,application-id=39gqIYVI,discussion-id=U8EfqWHA,comment-id=000200000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-01-02T20:52:11.604+0000)
>
> I didn&#x27;t say i am right, but atm no one shares me any sort of proper arguments why this cancer should stay in the game. U just cried about hecarim and the fact he can oneshot someone. Cool, he can 1shot 1 person, what pyke can do to whole team and easily escape tho.
I didn't cry about Hecarim. I was sarcastic.
The champ is aweful and can only win against the worst of the worst.