LIVERPOOL, England — Jeremy Corbyn is desperate to stop banging on about Europe.

To the Labour leader and his closest advisers, Brexit is a bore — a subject of marginal importance compared to the potentially transformative effect they predict a Corbyn government would have on British society.

It is also the one issue that they feel has the potential to blow up their electoral strategy if it is not properly contained, according to Corbyn’s closest aides and allies.

The Labour leader’s inner circle, led by Director of Strategy Seumas Milne, has concluded that all-out opposition to Brexit is the surest way to a damaging British culture war, which would only serve to undermine the party’s electoral chances. The fear is that supplanting straightforward economic interest among voters with new political dividing lines forged around identity risks splitting the Labour leadership from a large minority of its working-class base that backed leaving the EU in the 2016 referendum.

At the party’s annual gathering in Liverpool this week, this electoral calculation is on full display, with the leadership rigidly sticking to its carefully calibrated line that a second in-out referendum is not — yet — Labour’s policy, despite growing demand from paid-up members.

“In the referendum, I wanted to remain and reform the EU [but] 40 percent of Labour voters voted to leave" — Jeremy Corbyn

In an interview with POLITICO, Unite General Secretary Len McCluskey, the most powerful union leader in the U.K., said Sunday that all-out opposition to Brexit risks alienating the voters Corbyn needs if he is to stand any chance of making it into No. 10 Downing Street, potentially allowing the Tories to make large inroads into Leave-supporting northern England.

McCluskey said if Labour turns against Brexit completely, the Tories could make significant gains at Labour’s expense. “I think there is every chance that that would be the case,” he said.

Corbyn himself hinted at this very problem in an interview with the BBC earlier Sunday. “In the referendum, I wanted to remain and reform the EU [but] 40 percent of Labour voters voted to leave,” he said.

Inside Corbyn’s inner circle there is wry amusement at the political turnaround, which puts them in the position of trying to formulate a policy to appeal to the country at large, while pro-European “Blairites” — Corbyn's fiercest critics and traditionally more centrist than the Labour leader — push for a policy that appeals more to Labour’s “base.”

Len McCluskey, power player on the British left wing | Carl Court/Getty Images

“The Blairites who told us the party needed to be more reactionary are now furious that the party is appealing to those they believe are reactionary,” one senior Labour official said. “They are ridiculous.”

Corbyn and his team are pursuing a strategy they believe is necessary to win power — exactly the ruthless pragmatism they have long been accused of lacking.

'Not risk-free'

Such a strategy isn't so new.

“What’s determined here [at the Labour conference] has to work in parliament and in the country,” said a second party official.

The official added that the internal party debate on Brexit is reminiscent of a similar debate in May about whether to back remaining within the European Economic Area. The leadership’s view at that time was that, had the party adopted a full EEA position, there would have been about 20 to 40 Labour MPs in Leave-backing constituencies who couldn’t have supported it. There is concern now that a dramatic shift toward a second in-out referendum would prompt a similar backlash.

Leading pollster professor John Curtice said Corbyn’s strategy is understandable but carries significant risks.

“It’s a sensible strategy so long as you think the Remain voters don’t have anywhere else to go,” he said. Curtice said the Liberal Democrats should not be ignored. “They are starting to show signs of life.

“There are two risks. The Lib Dems won’t have any trouble saying what type of referendum they want. The second thing is trying to keep the parliamentary party onside. It’s not a risk-free situation.”

Ultimately, Curtice said, Labour cannot ignore the overwhelming majority of its members who were ardent Remainers.

A recent YouGov poll of more than 1,000 Labour members, commissioned by the pro-Remain People’s Vote campaign, found that 90 percent said they would vote to stay in the EU if there were a referendum now, with 86 percent backing a public vote on the outcome of negotiations.

Classic fudge

A compromise motion that will go before Labour members for a vote on Tuesday opens the door to a future referendum, but gives no detail on what the question might be.

“If we cannot get a general election,” the motion states, “Labour must support all options remaining on the table, including campaigning for a public vote.”

Shadow Brexit Secretary Keir Starmer said this motion keeps open the possibility of scrapping Brexit altogether being an option on the ballot. “Nobody was ruling out remain,” he said.

Shadow Chancellor John McDonnell added: “No options are ruled out. It's a hypothetical discussion ... but there will be a further discussion on what can be agreed within parliament on that ballot paper.”

John McDonnell, the U.K.'s shadow chancellor | Leon Neal/Getty Images

Any sign Labour is backtracking on the referendum is immediately jumped on by the Conservative Party.

Before the Labour conference, the prime minister warned that "many in Labour, the Liberal Democrats and the SNP are trying to thwart Brexit at every step and [are] seeking to exploit this moment for political gain.”

On the BBC’s Andrew Marr show Sunday, Brexit Secretary Dominic Raab painted the push to overturn the referendum result as part of wider European elitism. “The EU has a habit of spurning democratic votes,” he said. “And one of the things that really does give rise to extremism and fringe politics and the anti-elitism which we’re seeing fueling populist movements across continental Europe, is this idea that when the people have their say, they’re sent back to the drawing board because the elite in Europe don’t like the answer.”

It is precisely this calculation that provokes Corbyn's reluctance to oppose Brexit more clearly.

Arturo A Costantino

Hrvoje Horvat

So Labour party do not care of EU but cares for its chairs of power. Typical politicans.

Posted on 9/25/18 | 6:31 AM CET

Jacques Boote

Theresa May to hold trade talks with Trump on Wednesday as splits appear in the EU.
Hungary joins the voices wanting free and fair deal and proposess unrestricted access to galileo etc.

Posted on 9/25/18 | 6:40 AM CET

edel .

Moments like these is where one see leadership at action.

However, Britain shows lack of such this time around:

1) The most prominent Brexitteers all had steeped way back and no one wants the steering wheel.

2) Mrs. May tries to please everyone but no one is satisfied (she keeps in power because, again, read above).

3) Corbin also lacks the courage to be clear with a road ahead (either way) with the aim of not polarizing his constituency but what he would get is lack on enthusiasm (therefore much needed votes) at the polling station.

4) LibDems… oh well,… they are no unconvincing once you go in depth with any conversation. They need far more human capital.

Independently of positions on Brexit, they all are either unrealistic, unconvincing or with the lack of courage to take a clear position, any position really. The EU simply cannot do much in that situation (membership (in 2019), Norway (in 2019), Canada or Turkey (years ahead and same status till then) or out and star negotiations from scratch once out.

At the end, whatever government is in power on the years (if not decades) ahead I can already see the excuses; Labour: May got us a bad deal on Brexit”, Tories: “the EU decided to punish us”, Hard Brexiteers “UK is bad because of soft-Brexit forced by the EU”, soft Brexiteers “UK is bad because of Brexit “. And all that blame around and terribly opportunity cost for the entire Europe because a 1% UK GDP fee and a claim of sovereignty lost when no one has tell me yet a EU law is so bad for the UK… one! Well, for sure, Washington DC, Moscow and Beijing will be very grateful to UK for years to come (that does not mean they will be easy on the negotiations though, not a bit, their hand has gotten much stronger in front of a desperate Britain now)

Posted on 9/25/18 | 7:05 AM CET

Jacques Boote

Confirmed:
EU citizens arriving in UK after Brexit day WILL be considered as third country citizens.
Of course, it is after all, the only sensible option.

Posted on 9/25/18 | 7:06 AM CET

Jacques Boote

@edel

“How to make friends and influence people.” Knob off, your words are wasted, go tell it to your xenophobia and racíst neighbours in Chemnitz who might listen to you and where you facísm will be appreciated..

Posted on 9/25/18 | 7:10 AM CET

Jacques Boote

@edel

Du Mutti needs your help ! 🙂

Posted on 9/25/18 | 7:18 AM CET

James Yah

@Arturo A Costantino
“Another is that the LibDems couldn’t get elected as dog catcher.”
Not really … Lib Dem people still crossed with the Lib Dems regarding the tuition fees.

Posted on 9/25/18 | 7:24 AM CET

edel .

@Jacques Boote, dissidents in the EU does not mean UK will get a better deal, it means it is less likely it will get any deal period. Remember all members have to approve with whatever is agreed. Having dissonant voices in the other side of the negotiation table may sound rewarding but it is the worse scenario for the UK to move along at the negotiation with this setup of all needed to agree.

—
Those dreaming in a trade deal with the US little account for five main factors:

1) US is far, yes distance is a huge factor. Australia has a free trade deal with the US but the US has less relevance for them than tiny South Korea and… even the EU!

2) The US will demand concessions that will be hard to swallow for Britain, very hard. Barriers for business and protections etc will have to be lifted. Sectors will change very rapidly there and the UK will be even more unequal.

3) The US will have a strong hand in the negotiations. UK will avoid mayor trade deals with China to protect the industry and it will find that India asking for free visas too much to bear for a market that is too distant. The US knows all that, so it knows it can ask the UK anything for a deal. The UK will be desperate while for the US the UK is just one more market out of several far more important ones.

4) The US is not in a hurry. It is not just Trump, even Democrats are not much into mayor trade deals (remember that Hillary said a rotund no to the Trans-Pacific Partnership). If they sign anything with the UK will be on a few key items or it was calculated the impact will be minimum).

5) This American administration will hold many talks with the UK (as it is doing with Poland) in order for the UK keep its hopes up so it proceeds as planned. The main aim of the Trump’s administration here, is not a trade deal (read above), but to weaken any potential European cohesiveness.

Posted on 9/25/18 | 7:34 AM CET

Jacques Boote

@edel Tick Tock Tusk…

The closer Brexit becomes the more obvious, desperate and extreme the rants from you and your fellow EUroTrolls become. Accept it, get used to it.
De-dramatise Brexit and dial down the rhetoric.. 🙂

Posted on 9/25/18 | 7:54 AM CET

Jacques Boote

@edel

What planet do you live on?
The EU isn’t offering the UK a deal, they don’t want priveledged access to the UK market, that won’t affect the living standards or bother (in any way) the likes of Tusk, Jucker, Barnier, Merkel, Macron and all those… Just you I’m afraid.

Posted on 9/25/18 | 7:58 AM CET

edel .

@Jacques Boote, what do you mean “desperation”. For more than a year I been saying the EU should just leave the negotiation table until the UK comes with a decision (membership (the UK population would had to overwhelmingly want it), Norway or out); (besides a handful of crucial aspects for both like air rights and security cooperation, there is nothing else to negotiate at this point).

Likewise, I don’t aspire much for a soft-Brexit either, the last thing I want to hear from hard-brexiteers that UK’s economy is suffering because the “soft” part. As things are, Hard Brexit is, unfortunately, the best long term outcome for the EU. 5 years down the road, we can talk again but the choices will be pretty much the same. By then, maybe the UK will know what choice it wants, and the EU will also know better what it wants to become.

Posted on 9/25/18 | 8:07 AM CET

Jacques Boote

Trump hasn’t (puposefuly) done anything to damage the interests of the UK, but the EU has, and it continues to do so. In the real World, idíots like you have few friends..
The UK is lucky, after Brexit, the UK will be free to choose its own friends.

Posted on 9/25/18 | 8:07 AM CET

Jacques Boote

@edel

I am a moderate.

Posted on 9/25/18 | 8:08 AM CET

Jacques Boote

@edel

I think you will find that 10 years down the line, the US, the UK, China, India and everyone else will refuse to negotiate good deals with the EU and only negotiate preferential deals directly with individual member states.

Posted on 9/25/18 | 8:13 AM CET

Jacques Boote

@edel

There will be no deal unless you first hand over Bavaria to the Turks.

Posted on 9/25/18 | 8:17 AM CET

edel .

@Jacques Boote, you said one true assumption, “the US, the UK, China, India and everyone else will refuse to negotiate good deals with the EU and only negotiate preferential deals directly with individual member states”. That is for sure their goal and they are doing everything behind the lines for it to happen that way.

The EU will have to remodel before that happen, it will go through struggles but a few core members will realize soon enough that sacrifices need to be made (I am not afraid of bringing up Polexit at all, au contraire, bring it on!) and for the new EU become a stronger and far more stronger institution. But this need to remodel does not mean the entire idea of the EU is unfeasible, what is bad is to think that for Europe going back politically a century is the way forward to thrive or even survive in the 21st one.

Posted on 9/25/18 | 8:51 AM CET

Alana Johnson

The reason Corbyn and McDonnell support Brexit even more than May is because to remain tied to the EU would interfere with their dream to turn the UK into a socialist paradise – like Venezuela, who they were praising as their model not long ago.

They are a far bigger economic and social threat to the UK than any no deal scenario.

“Socialism is the Big Lie of the twentieth and now twenty first century. While it promised prosperity, equality, and security, it delivered poverty, misery, and tyranny. Equality was achieved only in the sense that everyone was equal in his or her misery.

In the same way that a Ponzi scheme or chain letter initially succeeds but eventually collapses, socialism may show early signs of success. But any accomplishments quickly fade as the fundamental deficiencies of central planning emerge. It is the initial illusion of success that gives government intervention its pernicious, seductive appeal. In the long run, socialism has always proven to be a formula for tyranny and misery.

A pyramid scheme is ultimately unsustainable because it is based on faulty principles. Likewise, collectivism is unsustainable in the long run because it is a flawed theory. Socialism does not work because it is not consistent with fundamental principles of human behavior. The failure of socialism in countries around the world can be traced to one critical defect: it is a system that ignores incentives.

In a capitalist economy, incentives are of the utmost importance. Market prices, the profit-and-loss system of accounting, and private property rights provide an efficient, interrelated system of incentives to guide and direct economic behavior. Capitalism is based on the theory that incentives matter!

Under socialism, incentives either play a minimal role or are ignored totally. A centrally planned economy without market prices or profits, where property is owned by the state, is a system without an effective incentive mechanism to direct economic activity. By failing to emphasize incentives, socialism is a theory inconsistent with human nature and is therefore doomed to fail. Socialism is based on the theory that incentives don’t matter.” Fee.org

Posted on 9/25/18 | 8:51 AM CET

Uwe Kuntz

Hey Corbin:
Quandry… You won’t be able to take your dog to the EU if you follow the will of the people.Respect FoM of your pets: Avoid Brexit.

Posted on 9/25/18 | 8:53 AM CET

Uwe Kuntz

@edel

We once swung around in trees. We once wore animal skins on our feet.
Thankfully things tend to get better over time. We even developed a word for it so as to be able to convey our thoughts… It’s called “progress”

Posted on 9/25/18 | 8:57 AM CET

Jacques Boote

@edel

As far as trade goes, there is no point in certain members hiding in a group in order to saty out of the limelight. And while in that group they mainatin there advantage (and take advantage) by forcing the other members to reduce their competitiveness to the level of theirs rather than compete fairly while the World is passing EU by.

Posted on 9/25/18 | 9:03 AM CET

James Yah

@edel

“I think you will find that 10 years down the line, the US, the UK, China, India and everyone else will refuse to negotiate good deals with the EU and only negotiate preferential deals directly with individual member states.”
You comment cleary shows you lack of knowledge how trade and business work. The reason countries WANT to negotiate with the EU is that they just need to respect ONE set of standards and they can access half a billion consumers. IF it was legal to negotiate with each individual EU member state (that is illegal and would require EU severael treaty changes) an Indian company could potentially need to obbey to 27 different set of standards. Deal with disputes on different 27 national courts without a common legal frameworks. Making it impossible to build a very cost effecty supply chain. What i’ve just described is EU’s more basic concept.

Posted on 9/25/18 | 9:07 AM CET

Jacques Boote

Jucker is Presidents of ‘The EU’.
Len McClskey is President of ‘Unite’.

Posted on 9/25/18 | 9:07 AM CET

Jacques Boote

Both are ‘trade unions’.

Posted on 9/25/18 | 9:08 AM CET

EUropea Anne

My fellow EUropeans: It is time to tell then once again;-
ALL UK flights will grounded you will only be able to travel via the tunnel which will be closed and full of XKM’s (bullshít) cement. ALL British lights will be switched off to save electricity and their car batteries won’t charge. LEDs will fail and selotape will loose its sticky.
ALL across the EU plans are in action. My fellow Europeans, Synchronise watch’s!

Posted on 9/25/18 | 9:26 AM CET

Dixie Normous

@James Yah
“1…The reason countries WANT to negotiate with the EU is that they just need to respect ONE set of standards and they can access half a billion consumers.
2… An Indian company could potentially need to obey to 27 different set of standards.

No one is saying that EU member states need to seperate and have seperate standards.
If India is willing to trade with Spain because Spain will allow FoM and other members won’t then Spain and India should trade. That does no prevent Spain from being in the EU and Spain can still have the same standards as France and still be INside of the EU, it simply means that Spain would have a better trade standing in the World….Being a member of the EU should not be a disadvantage and hold member states back.

Posted on 9/25/18 | 9:35 AM CET

Henry Jones

Hard Brexit is coming. I cannot wait. Great Britain will finally get what it deserves. Destiny has come.

Posted on 9/25/18 | 9:44 AM CET

Gupta 

Brexit LIVE: Merkel PANICS as Brexit and Trump sees German growth forecasts PLUMMET
GERMANY’S growth forecast for this year has been slashed over uncertainty surrounding Brexit negotiations and Donald Trump’s trade policy.

Oh,err !

Posted on 9/25/18 | 10:19 AM CET

Pragmatic Sceptic

Gupta 

After Brexit, Germany knows geopolitical power will shift southerly towards mediteranean. France will become the dominant political voice of the EU. Manu Macron who is on better terms with the US than Merkel, will become the new leader of europe and the EU.

Posted on 9/25/18 | 10:25 AM CET

Paul N

Mr Corbyn is not half-hearted about Brexit. Far from it. He realizes very well the negative effects of a hard Brexit, let alone a no deal Brexit. But he also knows taking a very clear position now is like going to sit on a wasps nest. Labour will get stung from every side, from the media, from other political parties and from its own members who do not agree with his position.

For those who dig a little bit deeper, it is very clear what Labour wants. It does not want to remain, as long as there has not been another referendum that overturns the outcome of the Leave vote. It does not want another referendum either and sees it as an emergency measure to prevent a no deal. It wants a Norway+CU deal, but with a further restriction on FoM and more say in EU policy than Norway presently has.

To me this is a very sound strategy for their party.

Posted on 9/25/18 | 11:34 AM CET

Paul N

@ edel

The biggest mistake mrs May has made is that after the Brexit vote and she became PM, she did not go to the EU and say: “I have a problem. I do not want us to leave, but our electorate has decided otherwise. How can we shape Brexit, so that we honor the decision of the UK electorate, but at the same time keep most of our political and economical relationship intact?” That would have resulted in a constructive and confidence inspiring approach. Instead she choose, just like Trump, a confrontational approach. This has resulted in the EU preparing for a no deal and making sure that the consequences of a no deal would loom large over the negotiations as a stick behind the door.

What bothers me is that the UK can probably recall their invocation of art 50 until Brexit date and remain as if nothing happened. This would in my view be bad for both sides.

Posted on 9/25/18 | 11:55 AM CET

Jacques Boote

@Paul N
“The biggest mistake mrs May has made is that after the Brexit vote and she became PM, she did not go to the EU and say: “I have a problem. I do not want us to leave, but our electorate has decided otherwise. How can we shape Brexit, so that we honor the decision of the UK electorate, but at the same time keep most of our political and economical relationship intact?” That would have resulted in a constructive and confidence inspiring approach. Instead she choose, just like Trump, a confrontational approach.”

You do spin a good yarn and you never let the truth get in the way of reality…
And what was the reality?

Mr Juncker, immediately on hearing the referendum result; –
“Britain MUST NOT BENEFIT from Brexit.
The confrontation started in Junckers mouth !

Posted on 9/25/18 | 12:04 PM CET

James Yah

@Dixie Normous
“No one is saying that EU member states need to seperate and have seperate standards.”
So EU member states should have diferent custom policies while having the same standards? I’m confused … how would you control what enter from country A into country B? Erect a border?
And what you seem to understand is FoM is a benefit for countries to open up their internal markets. I cannot see any point for Poland governament to allow Tesco, Alior Bank to open branches at their turft while their citizens aren’t welcome in the UK. So what will find with Brexit is that UK interest will be bared from operating under EU turf no matter how many FTA people can dream of.

Posted on 9/25/18 | 12:10 PM CET

James Yah

@Jacques Boote
“Britain MUST NOT BENEFIT from Brexit.” .. But what’s wrong with that comment?
So do you think you should have the benefits without the obligations? Because this is (i’m assuming) what Brexiteers want .. to benefit from Brexit (at others expense).
Being bound by only “certain” EU rules will give British interest and unfair advantage.

Posted on 9/25/18 | 12:58 PM CET

James Yah

@Pragmatic…
“I can’t imagine why we chose to leave…./S”
I do … by letter on the side of the bus, the easiest trade in history, we hold all the cards, they needs us more than we do need them …. but now hospitals are being told to stockpile on medicines and food. I rest my case.

Posted on 9/25/18 | 2:04 PM CET

Jacques Boote

@James Yah
“Britain MUST NOT BENEFIT from Brexit.” .. But what’s wrong with that comment?”

Someone said that the UK started the antagonism. When in fact it was Jucker that started the antagonism. Or shall we agree thats its doesnt matter who started or how it goes so long as no one can blame the Eu for any wrong?
Yera rite Daft Lard !

Posted on 9/25/18 | 2:49 PM CET

Dixie Normous

@James Yah
“I’m confused … how would you control what enter from country A into country B? Erect a border?”

You are confusing movement with the right to work and reside in a different country.
You see, there is nothing wrong with a Canadian visting Paris is there? According to you this should be impossible becasue he might detour into Italy and buy a house and start working there…. Nope, I suggest if he has FoM with Spain then he has the right to work and live in Spain, but not in Italy.. Just because he can travel there means nothing.

As for shops, well, (irelevant to what I was suggesting, but) business’s were free to invest and set up ‘shop’ in different countries long before the Eu. Your point has absoluetly nothing to do with the Eu or with Brexit.
Have you any idea how many Polish shops there are in the UK?

Posted on 9/25/18 | 3:00 PM CET

Paul N

@Jacques B

You never had a quarrel with a family member, partner or friend? You never said something prompted by emotion?

I am honestly very surprised how kind the EU leaders still are to mrs May and to the UK, with their willingness to accept the revocation of art 50.

Posted on 9/25/18 | 3:47 PM CET

Stefan Szelle

@Paul N

I am surprised (with the number of people you claim to have met) that you have never met anyone who has been estranged from his wife / family / friend after making unthoughtful remarks. But worse than that, after 2 years he is still doing it !

Posted on 9/25/18 | 4:15 PM CET

Irene Duym

I really can’t understand why a party would elect such a deplorable figure and give him the lead.

Posted on 9/25/18 | 4:32 PM CET

Ian Beaumont

Fairs Fair Irene, France did it

Posted on 9/25/18 | 4:59 PM CET

Paul N

@Stefan

I have never said anything on the quantity of people I have met. Somebody also mentioned that I has referred to a US couple, whereas I referred to a EU couple.

Yes, I met people that became estranged from their family, but not because of just making unthoughtfull remarks. Who were you referring to?

Posted on 9/25/18 | 5:19 PM CET

Ian Beaumont

Paul N,

Posted on 9/25/18 | 5:38 PM CET

James Yah

@Dixie Normous
EU four freedoms come on a 4pack. That’s was for what i’ve voted for and that was what the EU traties clearly state. My democracy cannot be worth less than yours otherwise it isn’t democracy.
Also, the big difference between myself and you is that you see the EU a pure mercantil entity while vast majority of EU27 people don’t.
To put it in context …. if you take out FoM from the EU the EU has absolutely no value for myself and for millions just like me who clearly have a vote and can decide elections.
Regarding “setting up shops” what you fail to understand is “the Polish shops in the UK are UK business that are called Polish shops” … HOWEVER Tesco and Alion ARE British interests operating on foreign turf. BIG DIFFERENCE.
FoM is a way so sweeten the population and balance trade imbalances so people keep supporting the “open market” that you seem to be so keep on but less keep to keep a balance between a big and a small economy.

Posted on 9/26/18 | 8:06 AM CET

Ian Beaumont

James Yah,
” I cannot see any point for Poland governament to allow Tesco, Alior Bank to open branches at their turft while their citizens aren’t welcome in the UK”

You are obviously not thinking hard enough then .

Those businesses will create jobs for your citizens

EU four freedoms come on a 4pack. That’s was for what i’ve voted for and that was what the EU traties clearly state.

Are you saying that you voted for the treaties, just for the four freedoms, so you could leave your home country, and come to the UK ?

“My democracy cannot be worth less than yours otherwise it isn’t democracy.”
It isn’t , who said it was ?
You seem to confuse your democratic rights with thinking that you do not have to abide by national laws and rights.
Your thinking is that The EU is one country , it is not .

“Also, the big difference between myself and you is that you see the EU a pure mercantil entity while vast majority of EU27 people don’t.
To put it in context …. if you take out FoM from the EU the EU has absolutely no value for myself and for millions just like me who clearly have a vote and can decide elections.”

Again you confuse EU and national elections.
I live in Britain and do not get to vote in Polands elections, Germany’s elections, or any other countries elections
If I could, I would vote out political parties that keep 1/5th of the total EU population in poverty
You need to start thinking

You may not see a value in EU membership without FOM, but your countries trade(businesses) with EU member countries do .

You are also wrong about Polish shops
These were set up by Polish companies to meet the demands of Polish citizens living in the UK , and import Polish goods to sell in them ,thus creating jobs in those Polish companies that supply the Polish shops.

FoM is a way so sweeten the population and balance trade imbalances so people keep supporting the “open market” that you seem to be so keep on but less keep to keep a balance between a big and a small economy.

Rubbish, FOM has nothing to do with it . The opening of markets , is all about raising citizens purchasing power, so that European goods will be bought by them (Business)

Posted on 9/26/18 | 10:36 AM CET

James Yah

@Ian Beaumont
1) “Those businesses will create jobs for your citizens” – the way I see it they are competition for local businesses. taxes aren’t paid locally anymore but paid instead at foreign HQ’s on a different countries that now mine

2) There was a referendum regarding constitutional changes (triggered by EU traties ratification). I’ve voted to support it but also voted on a pro-eu government who endorsed it (you cannot get more democracy than that)

3) “Your thinking is that The EU is one country , it is not .” Now it’s you who’s not thinking hard enough … and not reading carefully enough.

4) “Again you confuse EU and national elections.” – confused? Not really … i’ve vote for Pro-EU parties whith a clear PRO-EU agenda. No mistake there (could vote different way if i so wished) but nevertheless the MEP currently sitting at the EU Parliament had my vote. (once again .. couldn’t be more democratic than that)

5) “If I could, I would vote out political parties that keep 1/5th of the total EU population in poverty” your opinion alone. coming from a very humble background myself, I am now very well off thank you and I credit the EU for that (surely I have my reasons)

6) “You may not see a value in EU membership without FOM, but your countries trade(businesses) with EU member countries do .” Once again your opinion … quite a few hundreds of millions of people disagree with you.
I suppose it you who isn’t thinking hard enough because most EU27 citizens see the EU as a political project and NOT a mercantile only project like most faction of Brits who voted to leave.

7) “You are also wrong about Polish shops” – we’ll need to agree to disagree. while you may be guessing I’m not.

8) “Rubbish, FOM has nothing to do with it ” – your opinion once again and that is why the UK is leaving the EU (apparently a with a very bad deal with more bad news to follow).
From where I stand myself according to the election results I can around here everyone seems rather OK with the EU and can’t hear anyone speaking about leaving

Posted on 9/26/18 | 11:02 AM CET

Ian Beaumont

James Yah,
There is no point further discussing anything with you

Your posts and responses are not intelligent , just pathetic ramblings

Posted on 9/26/18 | 12:23 PM CET

James Yah

@Ian Beaumont
“James Yah,
There is no point further discussing anything with you

Your posts and responses are not intelligent , just pathetic ramblings”

By your last comment it looks like you couldn’t keep up. Maybe that is why you hate foreigners soo much .. do “they” make you look small?