John Smit has hailed Shane Williams as a "freak" of World Rugby. This term was last given to Jonah Lomu, by Will Carling, after the 1995 World Cup Semi-Final.

Does anyone agree that Shane deserves to be called a "freak" of World Rugby? In my opinion he is the best winger in the world at the moment but he is not a "freak" of World Rugby.

DC

16-06-08, 03:01 PM

I think he is a "freak" of rugby, how many other 5 foot 7 inch 170 pound wingers do we see running around making larger and faster guys look like fools?

It&#39;s not always about being a huge-hulking-physical-monster-athlete to be a freak but rather what you can do given what youve got.

As soon as the guy gets the ball you cant take your eyes off him as he dodges tackles, anytime he gets that ball he can make something happen its just incredible to watch.

Thingimubob

16-06-08, 03:19 PM

yeah, he&#39;s a lot stronger than he looks, and is incredably strong for his size. A few times in both tests, as well as a lot of his games recently, whenever someone does catch him, he has a habit of getting straight back up and wriggling forward another few meteres. Great player, really nice bloke too. Hope he doesn&#39;t get injured before the Lions Tour, he&#39;ll be a superb asset in SA next year!

yeah if you don&#39;t like Shane, then what&#39;s the point of you even reading it, let alone posting random pics? what&#39;s the harp got to do with anything?

Sir Speedy

16-06-08, 03:34 PM

I see it hurts you, Darkmanx, to see a NH player run rings around a whole SH team?

Dmx#1

16-06-08, 03:44 PM

I like Shane Williams I really do he&#39;s my favorite player ever since Jerry Collins retired.

Steve-o

16-06-08, 04:24 PM

Hmm, scraping the barrel again, the journalist is twisting Smit&#39;s words a bit there. He&#39;s not saying Williams is THE freak of world rugby, he said he&#39;s a freak. He&#39;s called Spies a freak before too.

Jean De Villiers, best player in the world on CURRENT FORM!!!1!1!

Dmx#1

16-06-08, 04:27 PM

Get real
Conrad Smith>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Jean De Villiers

Incredible Schalk

16-06-08, 04:45 PM

Jean De Villiers, best player in the world on CURRENT FORM!!!1!1!
[/b]

Never have truer words been spoken. B)

Dmx#1

16-06-08, 04:53 PM

Saying De Villiers is the best rugby player is like saying Shane Williams is the best rugby player.

gingergenius

16-06-08, 04:57 PM

<div class='quotemain'>
Jean De Villiers, best player in the world on CURRENT FORM!!!1!1!
[/b]

Never have truer words been spoken. B)
[/b][/quote]

How about we put Williams, de Villiers and Smith in our world backline and nip this in the bud..

Sir Speedy

16-06-08, 05:32 PM

Saying De Villiers is the best rugby player is like saying Shane Williams is the best rugby player.
[/b]
They&#39;re both the best though. :lol2tn: :lol2tn: :lol2tn: :lol2tn:

:lol:

badger60

16-06-08, 06:44 PM

Freak is a bit harsh, unqiue definately. When defences rule its nice to see someone with imagination and flair to do the unexpected. Imagine Shane on 1 wing and Jason Robinson at his peak on the other what a Lions attacking force that would be. :bana:

InsaneAsylum

16-06-08, 10:57 PM

lol this thread has turned to ****...

it doesn&#39;t surprise me that a wellingtonian claims that conrad smith is the best player, and 2 south africans say that jean devilliers is the best player

i could fuel the fire and say matt giteau is the best player in the world EVAR!!!!!111

but i wont, they are all pretty good, including shane williams

who the best is, will always be debatable

Sir Speedy

16-06-08, 11:02 PM

who the best is, will always be debatable
[/b]
Not in this case. Shane > them all. :P

nam97

17-06-08, 02:00 AM

Shane isn&#39;t even a blip on Jonah&#39;s talent radar screen. If the term freak has only been given out to Lomu, then no way does a player like Williams deserve it too.

We have two wingers in NZ that have 100% try scoring ratios and you Welsh rave on about his what... 35 from 60? Come on now, he&#39;s quick and scores some great tries but every decent winger does that.

I do rate him in the top 10 wingers in the world though, if that&#39;s any consolation to you.

Ripper

17-06-08, 05:53 AM

I can&#39;t wait till our 3rd string winger rips him apart again.

Gay-Guy

17-06-08, 06:37 AM

Lomu did things that no other player before him or since has ever done which makes him freakish.

Shane Williams...well Jason Robinson was there before him doing his stuff and more. There was also Brendon Paulse before him, Tony Underwood, etc etc. Robinson wins the battle of the small wingers quite easily. When you put these small wingers up against big wingers like Lomu, Vidiri, Sivivatu, Rokocoko, Tuqiri etc.....the winner is the big wingers all the time.

Lomu pushes Underwood around like a little kid 1995.

Cullen gases Paulse 1998

Howlett burns Robinson 2002

Tuqiri jumps all over Robinson 2003

Sivivatu is too fast and too agile for Williams 2005

Therefore Williams is a fantastic winger but he is one of many small wingers and Robinson is the winner of his class which struggles against the bigger wingers. The wingers that dominate are big wingers and the greatest of them all was Lomu who was faster than the fastest small winger, had a bigger sidestep, better fend, stronger barge, etc. Lomu is the only one who could be called a freak as he was more powerful than the top forwards, faster than the top wingers, better stepping than the best centres.

Therefore let this matter rest...Shane Williams is only a Rugby Freak on EA Rugby 2006!

candybum

17-06-08, 08:56 AM

Cullen gases Paulse 1998
[/b]

Paulse kicks on a loose ball after an AB fumble, toes ahead again! certain try, Wait Cullen from the OTher side of the field mows him down and beats him to the ball... 2000

Anyways

Williams has been in pretty good form lately, especially when you look at the wingers he was against the past two weeks. Hes so nippy and agile!

peppers07

17-06-08, 02:09 PM

We have two wingers in NZ that have 100% try scoring ratios and you Welsh rave on about his what... 35 from 60? Come on now, he&#39;s quick and scores some great tries but every decent winger does that.

I do rate him in the top 10 wingers in the world though, if that&#39;s any consolation to you.
[/quote]

To be fair you cant hold that against him if he played for New Zealand Australia or South Africa hed have the same ratio.

I think in terms of runing and try scoring ability hes as good the likes of Rokococo but on defensively he seems only average from what ive seen so not the best in the world but up there.

Ho3n3r

17-06-08, 02:46 PM

I believe if Wales gave the Boks the same amount of space out wide as we gave them, then Chavanga & Habana would both have scored 3 per game. On defence, Williams is way ahaed of Chavanga though. Same for hands. Habana though -- in a class of his own.

cyRil

23-06-08, 12:03 PM

Shane isn&#39;t even a blip on Jonah&#39;s talent radar screen. If the term freak has only been given out to Lomu, then no way does a player like Williams deserve it too.

We have two wingers in NZ that have 100% try scoring ratios and you Welsh rave on about his what... 35 from 60? Come on now, he&#39;s quick and scores some great tries but every decent winger does that.

I do rate him in the top 10 wingers in the world though, if that&#39;s any consolation to you.
[/b]
It&#39;s 43 from 58 actually, not a bad scoring record, and has scored against every major rugbying nation!
In the recent series he showed his quality and I would say (expecting abuse here) that he was superior to Habana. I&#39;m not saying he is overall, but in this test series he was the better of the two - leaving Habana on his backside in the first test and in the second where Habana was pretty anonymous Shane was magical. Every time he got the ball he beat at least two men and was always making yards.... Oh yeah and he scored a wonder try leaving 1/3 of the SA team bamboozled, tripping over each other and falling on their faces.
He isn&#39;t the best player in the world, you can never say that as there are so many specialist positions, but you could say he is for where he plays... Dan Carter is the best fly-half in the world, Richie McCaw is the best openside in the world, Shane Williams is the best winger in the world.
Cue Cat-calls and jeering, predominantly from SH-based fans, methinks. :cheers:

shazbooger

23-06-08, 03:22 PM

In the recent series he showed his quality and I would say (expecting abuse here) that he was superior to Habana. I&#39;m not saying he is overall, but in this test series he was the better of the two.
He isn&#39;t the best player in the world, you can never say that as there are so many specialist positions, but you could say he is for where he plays... Dan Carter is the best fly-half in the world, Richie McCaw is the best openside in the world, Shane Williams is the best winger in the world.[/b] Ahhh I dont think any SH fan could argue with what you&#39;ve said. Makes sense to me. He outshone Habana so the only real competitor would be Sivivatu but you cant deny Williams has had a greater impact on the summer tests.

In the same way I dont think any NH fan could dismiss how the AB&#39;s took SW to the cleaners on the last Lions tour. He may have beaten a player or two, but he got isolated and turned over more often then not. However, Williams today is a totally different player to what he was four years ago.

As for Lomu, there can be no comparison. SW has had a good year, Lomu changed the game of rugby and ruined a few careers along the way.

nam97

23-06-08, 03:30 PM

<div class='quotemain'>In the recent series he showed his quality and I would say (expecting abuse here) that he was superior to Habana. I&#39;m not saying he is overall, but in this test series he was the better of the two.
He isn&#39;t the best player in the world, you can never say that as there are so many specialist positions, but you could say he is for where he plays... Dan Carter is the best fly-half in the world, Richie McCaw is the best openside in the world, Shane Williams is the best winger in the world.[/b] Ahhh I dont think any SH fan could argue with what you&#39;ve said. Makes sense to me. He outshone Habana so the only real competitor would be Sivivatu but you cant deny Williams has had a greater impact on the summer tests.

In the same way I dont think any NH fan could dismiss how the AB&#39;s took SW to the cleaners on the last Lions tour. He may have beaten a player or two, but he got isolated and turned over more often then not. However, Williams today is a totally different player to what he was four years ago.

As for Lomu, there can be no comparison. SW has had a good year, Lomu changed the game of rugby and ruined a few careers along the way.
[/b][/quote]

Well if Sivivatu is his only competition, Sivivatu has won on every occasion they have met. Recall the 2005 Lions tour and most of the times the AB&#39;s play in Cardiff... same old story where Shane consistently gets shown up.

cyRil

23-06-08, 03:31 PM

<div class='quotemain'>In the recent series he showed his quality and I would say (expecting abuse here) that he was superior to Habana. I&#39;m not saying he is overall, but in this test series he was the better of the two.
He isn&#39;t the best player in the world, you can never say that as there are so many specialist positions, but you could say he is for where he plays... Dan Carter is the best fly-half in the world, Richie McCaw is the best openside in the world, Shane Williams is the best winger in the world.[/b] Ahhh I dont think any SH fan could argue with what you&#39;ve said. Makes sense to me. He outshone Habana so the only real competitor would be Sivivatu but you cant deny Williams has had a greater impact on the summer tests.

In the same way I dont think any NH fan could dismiss how the AB&#39;s took SW to the cleaners on the last Lions tour. He may have beaten a player or two, but he got isolated and turned over more often then not. However, Williams today is a totally different player to what he was four years ago.

As for Lomu, there can be no comparison. SW has had a good year, Lomu changed the game of rugby and ruined a few careers along the way.
[/b][/quote]
Completely agree. Williams got demolished on the Lions tour, but who didn&#39;t? Perhaps that was the impetus he needed to push on and he found out what he needed to do to step up to the next level.
You can&#39;t compare him with Lomu though...

Cymro

23-06-08, 08:30 PM

<div class='quotemain'>
<div class='quotemain'>In the recent series he showed his quality and I would say (expecting abuse here) that he was superior to Habana. I&#39;m not saying he is overall, but in this test series he was the better of the two.
He isn&#39;t the best player in the world, you can never say that as there are so many specialist positions, but you could say he is for where he plays... Dan Carter is the best fly-half in the world, Richie McCaw is the best openside in the world, Shane Williams is the best winger in the world.[/b] Ahhh I dont think any SH fan could argue with what you&#39;ve said. Makes sense to me. He outshone Habana so the only real competitor would be Sivivatu but you cant deny Williams has had a greater impact on the summer tests.

In the same way I dont think any NH fan could dismiss how the AB&#39;s took SW to the cleaners on the last Lions tour. He may have beaten a player or two, but he got isolated and turned over more often then not. However, Williams today is a totally different player to what he was four years ago.

As for Lomu, there can be no comparison. SW has had a good year, Lomu changed the game of rugby and ruined a few careers along the way.
[/b][/quote]

Well if Sivivatu is his only competition, Sivivatu has won on every occasion they have met. Recall the 2005 Lions tour and most of the times the AB&#39;s play in Cardiff... same old story where Shane consistently gets shown up. [/b][/quote]

Lions Tour is three years ago and the All Blacks played Wales last in 2006! C&#39;mon a bit poor of a comparison, where the Lions were poor all tour and in 2006 Wales were gash!

darwin_23

23-06-08, 10:37 PM

The reason he is not rated by many in New Zealand is that he has not performed well against New Zealand - New Zealand&#39;s midfield defense has ment that he has not been given space to operate, and hence he has been dominated by New Zealand&#39;s bigger wingers (I remember in particular Rico Gear causing him a lot of trouble in one game). Given space there is no player more dangerous, but if he hasn&#39;t got any room to operate he can, like most wingers, be shut down and in such cases his lack of size is a distinct disadvantage to him.

Some people here need to realise just because he doesn&#39;t play well against New Zealand (not necessarily through any fault of his own) doesn&#39;t mean he is not an exceptionally good winger who is if not the best certainly in the top 2-3 wingers in the world...

cyRil

23-06-08, 10:46 PM

The reason he is not rated by many in New Zealand is that he has not performed well against New Zealand - New Zealand&#39;s midfield defense has ment that he has not been given space to operate, and hence he has been dominated by New Zealand&#39;s bigger wingers (I remember in particular Rico Gear causing him a lot of trouble in one game). Given space there is no player more dangerous, but if he hasn&#39;t got any room to operate he can, like most wingers, be shut down and in such cases his lack of size is a distinct disadvantage to him.

Some people here need to realise just because he doesn&#39;t play well against New Zealand (not necessarily through any fault of his own) doesn&#39;t mean he is not an exceptionally good winger who is if not the best certainly in the top 2-3 wingers in the world...
[/b]
The voice of rationality. Well said.

nam97

24-06-08, 04:40 AM

<div class='quotemain'> <div class='quotemain'>
<div class='quotemain'>In the recent series he showed his quality and I would say (expecting abuse here) that he was superior to Habana. I&#39;m not saying he is overall, but in this test series he was the better of the two.
He isn&#39;t the best player in the world, you can never say that as there are so many specialist positions, but you could say he is for where he plays... Dan Carter is the best fly-half in the world, Richie McCaw is the best openside in the world, Shane Williams is the best winger in the world.[/b] Ahhh I dont think any SH fan could argue with what you&#39;ve said. Makes sense to me. He outshone Habana so the only real competitor would be Sivivatu but you cant deny Williams has had a greater impact on the summer tests.

In the same way I dont think any NH fan could dismiss how the AB&#39;s took SW to the cleaners on the last Lions tour. He may have beaten a player or two, but he got isolated and turned over more often then not. However, Williams today is a totally different player to what he was four years ago.

As for Lomu, there can be no comparison. SW has had a good year, Lomu changed the game of rugby and ruined a few careers along the way.
[/b][/quote]

Well if Sivivatu is his only competition, Sivivatu has won on every occasion they have met. Recall the 2005 Lions tour and most of the times the AB&#39;s play in Cardiff... same old story where Shane consistently gets shown up. [/b][/quote]

Lions Tour is three years ago and the All Blacks played Wales last in 2006! C&#39;mon a bit poor of a comparison, where the Lions were poor all tour and in 2006 Wales were gash!
[/b][/quote]

Hey, the guy said the only winger left to compare him to was Sivivatu, I was just fleshing out the history of when the two have met (obviously quite a while back).

Darwin23 is bang on though. I do rate Williams highly but it makes it hard when the only real times I see him closely is against us where he seldom gets to show his class, for the very reasons Darwin explained.

Gay-Guy

24-06-08, 05:55 AM

What happened to Williams also happened to Drew Mitchell. Williams first game against the AB&#39;s in 2003 in the quater final he was on fire and everyone was raving on about his amazing runs bamboozling the AB defenders. This is what Mitchell did the first time he played the AB&#39;s when he too bamboozled the AB defenders and everyone was going on about how he was the next boy wonder.

From that moment on the AB&#39;s never gave Williams or Mitchell an inch.

He is a fantastic winger but there are a few around just like him...we have a guy here named Masaga who has also run around Habana and stepped quite a few people in many of his electrifying runs...however like other small wingers in NZ he is nothing compared to the big Rokocoko, Gear, Howlett and Sivivatu wingers and so has not made it as an AB because when it comes to wingers in NZ size does matter.

jayice2005

24-06-08, 03:17 PM

Williams is an extremely good winger. He has vision, speed, quickness and agility.

He is just behind Habana/Sivivatu in the world rankings.

gjohn85

24-06-08, 09:46 PM

I can&#39;t wait till our 3rd string winger rips him apart again.
[/b]
Well considering how many NZ are heading to Europe, I wouldn&#39;t be surprised to see your 3rd choice winger is actually your 1st choice winger.
----------------------------------------
Shane Williams is a freak with his feet. When he not scoring tries, he making breaks & setting up tries. I lost count of how many times Wales or the Ospreys are struggling getting through when they attack & up pops Shane&#39;s & create holes in defences.

HarryPeters

25-06-08, 02:50 AM

Why not call Masaga a freak?

He plays exactly the same as Williams.

BLR

25-06-08, 03:38 AM

Why not call Masaga a freak?

He plays exactly the same as Williams.[/b]
Yeah, but Williams is Welsh.

Sir Speedy

25-06-08, 12:27 PM

:lol:

cyRil

25-06-08, 01:06 PM

Masaga looks an awesome player, but what has he done on the international stage?

Gavin

25-06-08, 01:27 PM

Masaga looks an awesome player, but what has he done on the international stage? [/b]

That is like saying what has Shane Williams done on the international stage before he got his first cap. Masaga has yet to win his first cap for an international team, though he did play in the 2006 Under 21 Rugby World Cup and was the tournaments top try scorer with 7.

cyRil

25-06-08, 01:52 PM

<div class='quotemain'> Masaga looks an awesome player, but what has he done on the international stage? [/b]

That is like saying what has Shane Williams done on the international stage before he got his first cap. Masaga has yet to win his first cap for an international team, though he did play in the 2006 Under 21 Rugby World Cup and was the tournaments top try scorer with 7.
[/b][/quote]
Well yes I know, I&#39;m trying to say you can&#39;t say how good a player he is yet on a wider stage because he hasn&#39;t been tested there.

BLR

25-06-08, 02:04 PM

Well yes I know, I&#39;m trying to say you can&#39;t say how good a player he is yet on a wider stage because he hasn&#39;t been tested there.[/b]
Look at the quality in front of him however....

cyRil

25-06-08, 02:23 PM

<div class='quotemain'>
Well yes I know, I&#39;m trying to say you can&#39;t say how good a player he is yet on a wider stage because he hasn&#39;t been tested there.[/b]
Look at the quality in front of him however....
[/b][/quote]
Cipriani had a damn good season in the Premiership last year, which isn&#39;t bad quality-wise. But he has one good international game in a dead-rubber game against Ireland and people are calling him the best fly-half in the NH. I think that&#39;s pretty ridiculous. Let&#39;s see where he is after this very unfortunate injury and how he does in the 6N and on the Lions tour, if he goes. Then you can judge how good he really is.
I didn&#39;t mean to deviate this to a discussion on Cipriani I was just using him as another example to explain my point. Sowwy. :mellow:
I&#39;m sure Masaga will become an All Black before very long, I think it should have been this season myself; but until he gets that opportunity against greater opposition - SA, Oz, France, Wales :bleh!: we cannot see just how good a player he is.
I&#39;m trying to get my point across as well as I can, I hope you understand what I&#39;m trying to say.

You&#39;re an idiot.
How about this: if you&#39;ve got something structured to add to the topic feel free put in your remarks, but when King Shane is one of the forerunners for IRB Player of the Year i expect you to keep your silly remarks to yourself, ok little buddy?

You&#39;re an idiot.
How about this: if you&#39;ve got something structured to add to the topic feel free put in your remarks, but when King Shane is one of the forerunners for IRB Player of the Year i expect you to keep your silly remarks to yourself, ok little buddy?
[/b][/quote]
Don&#39;t worry, by this time next year there wont be enough wingers in the country to fill their 22...