Remains to be seen; however, if I were a betting man I'd say it's 50/50 right now or maybe even slightly in McNabb's favor if we're simply talking about Mike and Kyle's inclination/ability to effectively tailor their esoteric, almost mystical, scheme for the QB first and other players on the roster.

I think the thing that probably hurts McNabb's position the most is that Kyle can be as egotistical and unwilling to adjust as McNabb thinks he is, and yet, his scheme would still create enough splash plays for a guy like RG3 to have more success than a player like McNabb. Just because Griffin is a better fit.

I'm very skeptical that the Redskins finally have it right all of a sudden, or that they have even found the problem, but I'm a lot more sure that Griffin isn't going to have five seasons with a completion percentage below 60% to start his career like McNabb did. Mike and Kyle aren't going to need to re-create the Andy Reid Eagles to make this work. Their current pass-first, play-action based offense should give ample opportunity for RG3 to succeed.

And if it doesn't, I think the Shanahans are going to take the fall before Griffin. At least, I hope to a higher power that the Shanahan's don't get to pick ANOTHER quarterback if this one doesn't take us where we need to go.

__________________ according to a source with knowledge of the situation.

I think fans' petty grudge toward DM is far more pathetic than his grudge about the Shanahans. It was handled poorly on both ends but ultimately the HEAD COACH is given the title of HEAD COACH for a reason.

The best way to move past Mike's mistakes, which are mostly a product of his ego, is to start winning. That said if the offensive scheme doesn't "click" with RGIII at the helm and we continue to see, say, McNabb type of results there will be, and deservedly so, signficant criticism of this little family adventure the Skins are on.

I don't have any grudge against him but if he's gonna talk smack, that opens him up to get blasted as well. If he was lighting it up in Philly, then stunk here and then lit it up in Minnesota, he'd be FULLY justified to say whatever he wanted. But he didn't. He stunk in Minny, got benched and then cut. He's got no credibility to criticize from my viewpoint.

I was really disappointed that he busted out in DC. I thought he would come in, be a winner, be a leader, be a force in our offense. I had high hopes that were quickly dashed when he became exactly what his Philly detractors said he was. An inaccurate QB with declining mobility and playmaking ability that made him one of the better QB of the late 90's-early 00's.

There's no reasonable analysis that would indicate that RGIII won't be a fit with Shanny and vice versa. I'll take the word of Mayock, Jaws, Cosell, Lombardi, Kiper and McShay over an embittered former one and done bust.

__________________ Paintrain's Redskins Fandom
1981-2014

I'm not dead but this team is dead to me...but now that McCloughan is here they may have new life!

I think the thing that probably hurts McNabb's position the most is that Kyle can be as egotistical and unwilling to adjust as McNabb thinks he is, and yet, his scheme would still create enough splash plays for a guy like RG3 to have more success than a player like McNabb. Just because Griffin is a better fit.

I'm very skeptical that the Redskins finally have it right all of a sudden, or that they have even found the problem, but I'm a lot more sure that Griffin isn't going to have five seasons with a completion percentage below 60% to start his career like McNabb did. Mike and Kyle aren't going to need to re-create the Andy Reid Eagles to make this work. Their current pass-first, play-action based offense should give ample opportunity for RG3 to succeed.

And if it doesn't, I think the Shanahans are going to take the fall before Griffin. At least, I hope to a higher power that the Shanahan's don't get to pick ANOTHER quarterback if this one doesn't take us where we need to go.

So maybe this is the wrong thread for this but how will you quantify success or that the Shanahans have 'finally gotten it right'? What are your benchmarks or milestones you are looking for to determine success or failure?

__________________ Paintrain's Redskins Fandom
1981-2014

I'm not dead but this team is dead to me...but now that McCloughan is here they may have new life!

Remains to be seen; however, if I were a betting man I'd say it's 50/50 right now or maybe even slightly in McNabb's favor if we're simply talking about Mike and Kyle's inclination/ability to effectively tailor their esoteric, almost mystical, scheme for the QB first and other players on the roster.

Right, because we don't have Mike's proven decades of history of running plays suited for his qb's style to use as evidence. Haven't we been over this?

Right, because we don't have Mike's proven decades of history of running plays suited for his qb's style to use as evidence. Haven't we been over this?

Nope. Never. Not at all. By the way, I also heard that RGIII declined a private workout with the Colts!!

__________________ "So let me get this straight. We have the event of the year on TV with millions watching around the world... and people want a punt, pass, and kick competition to be the halftime entertainment?? Folks, don't quit your day jobs."- Matty

If RGIII does not fit in Shannahan's syst3m then we get a coach that can fit RGIII in their system. We invested too much in RGII he is the franchise. No more excuses Shannahan either wins or he is toast.

If RGIII does not fit in Shannahan's syst3m then we get a coach that can fit RGIII in their system. We invested too much in RGII he is the franchise. No more excuses Shannahan either wins or he is toast.

Agreed. We've waited two decades or more for a legitimate QB and we can't screw this up.

__________________ Not sent from a Droid, iPhone, Blackberry or toaster

I don't have any grudge against him but if he's gonna talk smack, that opens him up to get blasted as well. If he was lighting it up in Philly, then stunk here and then lit it up in Minnesota, he'd be FULLY justified to say whatever he wanted. But he didn't. He stunk in Minny, got benched and then cut. He's got no credibility to criticize from my viewpoint.

I was really disappointed that he busted out in DC. I thought he would come in, be a winner, be a leader, be a force in our offense. I had high hopes that were quickly dashed when he became exactly what his Philly detractors said he was. An inaccurate QB with declining mobility and playmaking ability that made him one of the better QB of the late 90's-early 00's.

There's no reasonable analysis that would indicate that RGIII won't be a fit with Shanny and vice versa. I'll take the word of Mayock, Jaws, Cosell, Lombardi, Kiper and McShay over an embittered former one and done bust.

Did not mean to single you out and sincere apologies if it seemed as such. I guess my point is: isn't ultimate responsibility on Mike (and Bruce probably to a lesser extent) that we traded for a washed up QB? As in we can all agree McNabb wasn't the answer, but how did a SB winning legacy coach goof the evaluation so badly?! Savvy?

Right, because we don't have Mike's proven decades of history of running plays suited for his qb's style to use as evidence. Haven't we been over this?

No, just no. I have no idea whether you watched Denver while Mike was HC but that offense, even post Elway, doesn't resemble what we've seen thus far by any stretch of the imagination. Namely, Mike's was a run-first offense, even when he had slingers at QB (Elway, Plummer, Cutler). In Washington he's had average at best QB performance yet passed more than ever before, so personnel isn't the difference maker. Kyle is the difference, and (so far) it's his pass first offense we're seeing, which changes the nature of what Mike did for decades, as you say lol, and what he would likely do if this were still his offense.

So it's a bit tricky...hanging our hopes on a legacy coach for what he accomplished but recognizing it's not really his offense we're running. Would I feel more confident w/ Mike's offense? Indeed.

No, just no. I have no idea whether you watched Denver while Mike was HC but that offense, even post Elway, doesn't resemble what we've seen thus far by any stretch of the imagination. Namely, Mike's was a run-first offense, even when he had slingers at QB (Elway, Plummer, Cutler). In Washington he's had average at best QB performance yet passed more than ever before, so personnel isn't the difference maker. Kyle is the difference, and (so far) it's his pass first offense we're seeing, which changes the nature of what Mike did for decades, as you say lol, and what he would likely do if this were still his offense.

So it's a bit tricky...hanging our hopes on a legacy coach for what he accomplished but recognizing it's not really his offense we're running. Would I feel more confident w/ Mike's offense? Indeed.

Your whole argument is that Mike doesn't use his qb's to their strengths. I'm simply saying that past history indicates he does. If your problem lies with Kyle and his control of the offense, than you need to say so.

Personally, I believe Griffin, and even Luck, show the qualities that both Mike and Kyle look for in a quarterback, and they'd be hard pressed to come up with ways that would make Griffin fail. From what I can gather you seem to think that because we've failed with three has-beens at qb that means there's a 50/50 chance we're going to fail with a prospect who does everything we look for in a quarterback, and is also supremely gifted and to top it off, young, malleable, and willing to learn. Aka the perfect combination.

In the end, if Mike and Kyle fail to make this kid into the greatest quarterback DC has seen since Sonny J, by all means you can pull a CultBrennan and gloat about being right until we all tune you out. But I have more faith that the opposite will happen, and so do a lot of people that know a hell of a lot more about the subject than I do.

[QUOTE=mooby;906523]Your whole argument is that Mike doesn't use his qb's to their strengths. I'm simply saying that past history indicates he does. If your problem lies with Kyle and his control of the offense, than you need to say so.QUOTE]

See my original post bud I say Mike and Kyle, and that's not my argument anyway.