corggirl, seems like we just have substantially different views on certain things. i most definitely did not think that MIB's village was wiped out by other people on the island. While we haven't seen Jacob actually killing any of the others or castaways, we have seen plenty instances where it was referred to as the island being done (or not done) with somebody, and the inevitability of that (charlie). maybe that's jacob's way... maybe that's smokey masquerading as "the island," (certainly it would seem so in michael's case, when christian appears and says, "you can go now" or whatever)... i don't know. Aside from MIB's village (which i view as evidence and you do not), there isn't much evidence of the island's "protector" being capable of doing much of anything but working a loom and baptizing a famished, escaped slave. Apparently this is where I am willing to assume certain things, because while there are certainly ways of protecting something without resorting to violence, a "Protector" without the ability to at least do so in last resort seems mildly useless.

in regards to BSuperstar's comments... again, just fundamentally does not make sense to me. Ben has shown at times a certain weaselly perseverance, but it just seems like a stretch for him to agree to kill the people that gave him a second chance in what was one of his darkest moments. Ben has no family, no friends (if he kills those still alive) no power without the island... and he just killed widmore... possibly the only other thing keeping him motivated. For smokey to believe that Ben would lick his bootheels out of fear of death alone doesn't make sense. We're talking about a guy that just pulled of a hundred-plus-year plan to kill one person. I'm thinking he learned looooooong ago that fear can only do so much to motivate a man, especially one so similar to himself in ben.

i'm kinda surprised that i'm the only one that has a problem with any of this shit.

I never said that MIB's village got wiped out by other people, just that I thought there were probably more people in addition to his village hiding somewhere on the island (I brought that up only to insinuate that Jacob doesn't 'bring' everyone who ever comes to the island).

And I'm not saying that fate doesn't play a big role in this. Sometimes I do think the Losties lives are already scripted, and certain things are going to happen. Ya know, whatever happened, happened and to a larger extent, whatever's gonna happen, will. I'm just saying that I don't think Jacob = fate. And I definitely think MIB/Smokey is the one who decides when the island is 'done' with someone.

I do think Mother was responsible for destroying MIB's village and people, but I do not think that Jacob is the same as Mother. I think MIB was the rightful heir, but he didn't want the job. And I'm more prone to believe that Mother possesed the qualities that Jacob and MIB now split. Jacob got the golden touch, can influence people's lives, can lead people to certain directions, while MIB got the destructive, protective qualities. It's just that MIB has been so hell-bent in getting off the island and full of rage and revenge that he's become much more dangerous.

Which is also why I believe that Aaron is the real protector of the light. I think he's going to be born in that sideways world and the two worlds are going to merge and he's going to get those qualities that should be in one person, one protector, instead of split between twins.

i'm kinda surprised that i'm the only one that has a problem with any of this shit.

I'm just waiting until after the finale lets me down to get all worked up about it.

+1In nearly all cases with the show, I've found that if something genuinely confuses/bothers me, it will eventually be resolved if I let them finish telling the story. If everything were spelled out to the point where every single detail made perfect sense before the last episode ever, what would be the point of airing it? There are bound to be a couple of details that fall through the cracks, but after a certain point, either you want to enjoy the show or you don't. I'm waiting to see the rest of the tapestry before I start tugging at threads with the Gotcha counter.

i'm kinda surprised that i'm the only one that has a problem with any of this shit.

I'm just waiting until after the finale lets me down to get all worked up about it.

+1In nearly all cases with the show, I've found that if something genuinely confuses/bothers me, it will eventually be resolved if I let them finish telling the story. If everything were spelled out to the point where every single detail made perfect sense before the last episode ever, what would be the point of airing it? There are bound to be a couple of details that fall through the cracks, but after a certain point, either you want to enjoy the show or you don't. I'm waiting to see the rest of the tapestry before I start tugging at threads with the Gotcha counter.

+2Just try to enjoy it gang. This show requires a little suspension of disbelief.

there are plenty of things that i enjoy and continue to enjoy despite the way they turn out (twin peaks, star wars prequels to name two). this week's episode was just really where it jumped the shark, so to speak, for me big time. maybe sunday i'll be pleasantly surprised. the discussion here has always been interesting, still is, just thought someone else might be sharing my frustrations. i shall take my ball and turn the frozen donkey wheel.

so, saying that jacob needs to bring somebody to the island is, like abstraction said, assuming that people can't get to the island without jacob's help. which i realize isn't necessarily true, but is part of a larger question of why he let people survive on the island at all.

These kinds of questions (whether through negligence or by design) are open for interpretation. I could draw up a character study with fabricated events that would demonstrate a one-to-one relationship between a significant incident and why a person chooses to do something in a similar situation. But really, why don't most people do things that they "should" do? Even if the existence of Smokey weren't enough to remind Jacob of the consequences of trying to kill to solve his problems, there surely could've been other incidents to dissuade him. The end of the Richard episode was largely devoted to hinting at mystically- and/or philosophically-imposed limitations.

i think most of my frustrations come from knowing too much. i almost wish that they wouldn't have pulled back the curtain so far, i guess. so i've got all this information now, and there's nothing i can do but draw conclusions, make assumptions, posit theories, etc. etc. towards the many unanswered (and there are lots) questions that we will probably never have answers for. i mean, with the webisodes, podcasts, alternate reality web games, videogames not to metion countless blogs, i would venture to say that this has been the most interactive tv drama ever... and i think that was partly by design.

well, i'm rambling now. i guess yeah, i just feel like they pulled back a little too far, and for me knowing too much of certain things can be (ironically) unsatisfying. that's why the candidates thing bugs me too... i think...

honestly, i just hope it ends with desmond and penny walking away from the camera. then desmond turns back to look at the camera and takes his sunglasses off revealing yellow and black cat's eye contacts.

honestly, i just hope it ends with desmond and penny walking away from the camera. then desmond turns back to look at the camera and takes his sunglasses off revealing yellow and black cat's eye contacts.

honestly, i just hope it ends with desmond and penny walking away from the camera. then desmond turns back to look at the camera and takes his sunglasses off revealing yellow and black cat's eye contacts.

freeze frame

vincent price laughing in the background.

See? You should totally write for TV. Can we work the DharmasharksmokeyflockeMIB in there somehow? Maybe right after the Vincent Price laughter, a scene where the shark picks up Ming The Merciless' ring from the rubble of the island?

_________________"The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other... involves orcs." - Kung Fu Monkey

there's nothing i can do but draw conclusions, make assumptions, posit theories, etc. etc. towards the many unanswered (and there are lots) questions that we will probably never have answers for. i mean, with the webisodes, podcasts, alternate reality web games, videogames not to metion countless blogs, i would venture to say that this has been the most interactive tv drama ever... and i think that was partly by design.

i figured out what i was trying to get at here, that just because there are only a couple of hours left in the show, i'm not resigning myself to just sitting back and letting it play out. since i started watching, there have been countless wtf moments, and whereas in the past many of them dealt with sci-fi or mythology or strange locations, just as many have been about characters and motivations. it just so happens that this last episode brought out some wtf moments in regards to why EVERYTHING in the show has happened, so it's a little harder to swallow, and it's a big deal to me... hence my surprise that nobody else shared the feelings.

it just so happens that this last episode brought out some wtf moments in regards to why EVERYTHING in the show has happened, so it's a little harder to swallow, and it's a big deal to me... hence my surprise that nobody else shared the feelings.

I don't quite feel it because of something I said a few pages back. I attribute a lot of the appeal of Lost to the non-sequential storytelling. While it's contrived, it's an effective way to put the audience into the mindset of characters who don't know wtf is happening, and to add mystery to what would otherwise be a relatively straightforward chain of events. They can't just refuse to give any explanation, and there is no explanation they could give that wouldn't seem anticlimactic.

speaking of the hipinion lost threads, they've posted some links to multiple interviews where creators and cast keep sating they've known the final image of the finale for years now, just didn't know how they were gonna get there.

this leads me to one BIG conclusion. the only thing that i honestly believe they could have had as a final image/final episode for years now and have it still make sense is what was supposed to be the final image of the first episode: jack's death. if he was supposed to die at the end of the first episode, to show that ANYBODY could be killed off, but abc wouldn't let them, then i'm betting they've been saving that card for the finale all these years. and it would still fit in with all the shit from this season pretty well, too . . .

and trust me kids, i've spent a LOT longer wishing for jack's death than ANY of you have spent hoping for kate's!

_________________"The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other... involves orcs." - Kung Fu Monkey