Uxie has lost a lot of its fervor now that Cresselia is around, as the "bulky Psychic-type". Its niche of having Stealth Rock and Momento isn't enough to secure it in S. Additionally, it might have great bulk, but lack of recovery really hurts, as then it can't take as many poundings.

I agree with Primeape going down to C. Although, it does still have Vital Spirit to avoid Sleep, with Cresselia in the tier is simply isn't good anymore. Also, a Choiced Fighting-type isn't good anyway with Ghost, and Psychics around.

both his rapid spin and Life Orb attacker sets were quite underwhelming.

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Just want to mention that the EV spread suggested on Smogon sucks if you were using that for the rapid spin set.
The best spread imo is 252 HP/172 Def/82+ Sp.Def (enough bulk to always avoid the 2HKO from LO cryogonal's ice beam after rocks, rest goes into Def to take various resisted moves better, as well as EQ/gyro balls).
Running speed is dumb because then steelix has a powered up gyro ball, and running attack doesn't really make sense when you're just trying to spin and beat many hazard setters (who either have resisted STABs or a fighting weakness)
But eh if the decision has been made there's not much I can do about it.

I agree with Yonko that Cress pushes Uxie down to A, as it is a better bulky Psychic-Type, and the wide movepool of Uxie does not save it.

However, I disagree with Rotom-C in A. This thing is such a threat that it deserves S, even if S tier is getting cluttered, it should NOT leave the tier. For "Low Risk" and "Very Few Flaws" not many RU pokes show this like Rotom-C. Rotom-C stays in S.

Aerodactyl UP from B rank to A rank
Ferroseed UP from C rank to B rank
Ludicolo UP from Untested rank to B rank
Charizard UP from Untested rank to C rank
Primeape DOWN from B rank to C rank
Rotom-C DOWN from S rank to A rank
Uxie DOWN from S rank to A rank

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Most of the changes seem good, but I agree with Phazon00, Rotom-C is still S-Rank material. Nothing has really changed for it : Things that are immune to Volt Switch, risk a OHKO or 2HKO by STAB Leaf Storm and stuff that resist Volt Switch tend to be slow and easy to force out. It's also quite bulky and versatile with access to Will'O'Wisp, Pain Split or Trick. Rotom-C is the best scarfer in the tier imo, and his other sets are also pretty good.

Proposed change : Seismitoad DOWN from B to C.

I always found Support Seismitoad to be quite mediocre, his bulk is clearly unimpressive, he lacks recovery and Water Absorb sounds cool until you realize that Seismitoad, having no way to hurt or pHaze Water types, actualy loses to Fera or Samurott. Competition with Poliwrath is really cruel for Seismitoad as he only has 2 things over his Fighting type brethen :

Seismitoad walls Lanturn. But Lanturn is no powerhouse, it's a defensive threat and walling it doesn't prevent it from switching into your Manectric again, again and again. So the real question is, what are you doing with the free turns Lanturn gives you ? And with his uninvested base 85 offenses Seismitoad isn't doing much.

Seismitoad learns Stealth Rock. But we clearly don't lack SR users in RU, so it might be wise to use something that is either more threatening or checks more stuff, both in most cases.

Rain Dance Seismitoad is good, but he needs a dedicated (Rain) team around him, and that should keep him out of B Rank. Outside of Rain teams, Seismitoad suffers from the comparison with Ludicolo, which has far less checks and counters. Amounguss and Slowking hardcounter Rain Dance Seismitoad and are not exactly easy to kill due to Regenerator, lack of Ice Beam means pretty much any Dragon checks Seismitoad.

However, I disagree with Rotom-C in A. This thing is such a threat that it deserves S, even if S tier is getting cluttered, it should NOT leave the tier. For "Low Risk" and "Very Few Flaws" not many RU pokes show this like Rotom-C. Rotom-C stays in S.

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Considering the list of Pokemon that are S-Ranked in RU (aside from Uxie)...

Cresselia - So bulky that it singlehandedly caused a fall in Fighting-type Pokemon usage. Thi,s along with its instant recovery, make Cresselia extremely difficult to take down if you lack a boosted STAB Supereffective move. Entei - A Flare Blitz coming from this thing 2HKOs every Pokemon in the metagame that doesn't resist it other than Cresselia, which is scary. Its Extreemespeed is among the strongest priority moves in the tier, and along with that it is somewhat fast and has a good amount of bulk. Escavalier - Extremely powerful with its Megahorn and 135 base Attack, which makes it nigh impossible to switch into. Almost a risk-free STAB too, unlike Pokemon with Leaf Storm that have to switch out due to stat drop. Its Steel-typing = lots of chances to switch in. Kabutops - Hands down the best spinner in the metagame. It is a very dangerous offensive threat as well, thanks to a potent STAB combo, priority, and Swords Dance, so it can deal a massive amount of damage while keeping entry hazards away at the same time. Moltres - Arguably the most powerful Special Attacker in the entire metagame. Although it needs Stealth Rock support, the ability to 2HKO everything other than sucklax is very potent, and even if it uses its bulk, 125 Base Special Attack with two 120 Base Power moves hurts a lot without investment. Nidoqueen - Fairly self explanitory. Immune to Paralysis, Life Orb recoil, AND toxic damage, so it is impossible to stall out (Burn won't do anything). It also has incredible coverage and a lot of power. Its bulk is decent enough to take a hit and occasionally OHKO the said attacker back. Sceptile - #1 in the usage stats should say enough, but it is one of the most dangerous Special Attackers due to its stupidly high speed and a very powerful Leaf Storm. Focus Blast also means that Steel-types can't wall it. It can even attack on the physical side or attempt to SubSeed.

When I think of these Pokemon, I think "these Pokemon MUST be considered on a team - if you don't prepare for them you will struggle greatly.

However, Rotom-C is different. While it is very versatile and can disrupt you a lot while still hitting pretty hard with Volt Switch and such, Rotom-C lacks in coverage. Considering that all the above Pokemon Pokemon can get perfect coverage in their STABs (other than Sceptile and Escavalier, but Escavalier 2HKOs resistors often and Sceptile has a lot of coverage options), Rotom-C is exposed to more things. All Grass-types resist Rotom-C's STABs, and Rotom-C doesn't run that many coverage moves due to 4MSS. Its still a very good Pokemon, but it isn't quite as powerful and it doesn't have as many moves, making it more comparable to and A-Rank Pokemon.

I still think Ferroseed should be C-Ranked (explained it in my last post), and all the other proposed changes I agree with.

Like I said before I feel like Ferroseed is fine in C Rank. I give another argument: Ferroseed agrees with the description of C Rank:

C Rank:Reserved for Pokemon that have notable niches in the RU metagame, but have just as notable flaws that prevent them from being effective. Pokemon in the C tier often require significant support to be effective in RU. C rank Pokemon tend to face a lot of competition with the more commonly used Pokemon.

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Ferroseed has important flaws like the aforementioned no offensive presence, that prevent Ferroseed from being B matieral imo

I also support Ludicolo to B Rank. Ludicolo is one of the most threatenig Pokemon under rain; with fantastic type in Grass / Water, and his amazing coverage, Ludicolo is too difficult to counter. Also, Ludicolo is quite bulky even without EVs investment and can switch on a lot of things like Lanturn, Steelix or Tangrowth, and even can take some priorities like Sucker Punch or Aqua Jet, resisting it x4, the most common priority.

I always found Support Seismitoad to be quite mediocre, his bulk is clearly unimpressive, he lacks recovery and Water Absorb sounds cool until you realize that Seismitoad, having no way to hurt or pHaze Water types, actualy loses to Fera or Samurott. Competition with Poliwrath is really cruel for Seismitoad as he only has 2 things over his Fighting type brethen

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Okay, taking 2 hits from Nidoqueen and living to tell it is unimpressive.

No way to hurt other water-types, are you serious? Earth Power still does a 30% at worst the bulkiest offensive ones(Gatr and Samurott) and while it can't do much to Slowking, poisoning is a victory against it when defensive Slowking can barely hurt Seismitoad . And competition with Poliwrath? This is wrong for one particular reason: defensive Seismitoad is mostly ev'd to take on special attacks while still being bulky enough to take some physical ones, not to mention that if Seismitoad wants to go the physically defensive route, it takes almost the same damage than Poliwrath from most attacks and still wall most of the same things not called Durant that beats both anyway.

Feraligatr is not as good as it was before and can only use Return that is not even a 2hko if silly DD, Seismitoad can also take a +2 Return and go for the Burn. Offensive Seismitoad can still take a +2 return and do about 70% back with earth power, or if you really want to OHKO, grass knot does that. Oh yeah, Seismitoad is faster. No need to worry about losing here if Gatr took something down before Seismitoad came in.

Oh shit a water type not called Lanturn losing to Samurott, SURPRISING. Seriously, unless it is Lanturn or champion Frillish, Mixed Samurott will beat all water-types in the tier without really trying.

Seismitoad walls Lanturn. But Lanturn is no powerhouse, it's a defensive threat and walling it doesn't prevent it from switching into your Manectric again, again and again. So the real question is, what are you doing with the free turns Lanturn gives you ? And with his uninvested base 85 offenses Seismitoad isn't doing much.

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Emergency checking Manectric, taking nothing from defensive rotom except a burn and dealing plenty of damage to subsplit with scald, walling most swift swimmers, and surviving against queen is not good enough over its fellow water-types is not good enough. I got it

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And are you really expecting a mostly defensive mon to do plenty of damage? Unless it is something like motherfucking Groudon, that is not happening anytime soon. Also, Seismitoad has better offenses than most defensive mons in the tier. His moves also have decent bp and backed up by STAB.

Seismitoad learns Stealth Rock. But we clearly don't lack SR users in RU, so it might be wise to use something that is either more threatening or checks more stuff, both in most cases.

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Point of using SR seismitoad is fitting it on a rain team without needing Uxie.It also checks plenty of Dangerous threats all at once such as Entei, kabutops, NIDOQUEEN, and most electric-types, allowing it to possibly free multiple teamslots on your team if you don't want to run it on a rain team.

Rain Dance Seismitoad is good, but he needs a dedicated (Rain) team around him, and that should keep him out of B Rank. Outside of Rain teams, Seismitoad suffers from the comparison with Ludicolo, which has far less checks and counters. Amounguss and Slowking hardcounter Rain Dance Seismitoad and are not exactly easy to kill due to Regenerator, lack of Ice Beam means pretty much any Dragon checks Seismitoad.

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It doesn't need a team around him for the rain set to be effective at all. It can easily use a Rain Dance+LO ala Ludicolo to do plenty of damage for 5 turns while taking minor damage from priority not named Sucker Punch. And surprise, a lot of pokemon beat a single swift swimmer, that is why a rain team should have ways around those, in the case of those two you mentioned , mighty Specs Swanna(molk, add this to D please) that has pretty good synergy with Seismitoad, at worst 2hkoes those with her Hurricane. In case of using Seismitoad without a dedicated rain dance team, then something like sub rotom will help seismitoad with those two without really trying.

If by any dragon you mean Druddigon, then you re correct. Others Dragons don't stand a chance against rain Seismitoad and fear a burn from the bulky version. Dragonair and Altaria can be added to the list , but they are not very good in RU. Forgot something, RU only has two viable Dragon-Types: Druddigon and Fraxure.

The only thing stopping Seismitoad from being at least A rank is lack of reliable recovery.

I would like to suggest adding Cacturne and Swanna to untested at least. They were both featured in recent Research Weeks, so it seems fair that they should at least get some kind of tier. Gabite and Basculin, two Pokemon I would not have considered as high priority for this list, were introduced in a serious RU sense from a Research Week thread and now have a tier (Gabite is still untested I think), so it only makes sense that Cacturne and Swanna would be added as well.

Also, I thought Musharna was B tier before the suspects were reintroduced. Now it's just... not there. Although its viability may have decreased, I think it should still have a tier (even if it is D or E), since we do have tiers for pokemon who are mostly outclassed.

I'd like to offer some feedback here as something of an outsider but one who still more or less understands the metagame. I'm an LU leader on PO (not that that makes my post any more worth listening to per se!) and have experience in the RU metagame. I feel like there's really quite a lot of things wrong with a lot of this list.

Kabutops in S: While being a solid and useful pokemon in the meta Kabutops is in no way definitive to the meta nor worthy of a position like an S-ranking. Its less than amazing bulk, mildly low speed and slight lack of power means while being a great spinner and good SD mon it's in no way an "amazing" pokemon. A ranking imo.
Rotom-C in S: It's a great pokemon and a versatile one too. It's just not "amazing" enough at anything to be any higher than A.
Escavalier in S: It feels almost too obvious to say here, but its speed cripples it so insanely that while being an absolute top threat it's not worth an S. Go for A, imo.
Fraxure in A: Feel surprised I'm debating this point, but Fraxure is a low-level threat in RU. I'd call it a B cos you guys seem to like it a lot but personally I'd put it as low as C.
Spiritomb in A: Spiritomb honestly does not function well in the RU meta and is barely beneficial for any team to run. I'd honestly put it in C.
Slowking in A: The fact Slowking isn't immediately in S makes this whole thing feel really questionable. Slowking is an absolutely definitive pokemon in RU and a major glue for any team.
Tauros in A: This thing is like, a D at best, lol, it's horribly outclassed
Swellow in B: Swellow is simply not the powerhouse in RU that it is on paper. It doesn't fit well into the RU meta. A C, imo.
Hitmonlee in C: Hitmonlee loses a lot in a meta with Cresselia, no doubt, but it's still one of the #1 threats for any offensive teams to face and belongs in a solid B at least.
Liepard in C: Gimmick pokemon don't belong in C. D at best.
Medicham in C: Again loses out in a Cresselia meta but wrecks shit way too hard to be in a damn section that contains Linoone. It's a B, imo, but whatever.
Typhlosion in C: When you have Magmortar in A I'm not sure exactly why this thing is in C? This is a solid B.
Hitmonchan in D: Hitmonchan is a solid reliable pokemon, it's no Kabutops or Cryogonal when it comes to spinning but it has its place. It's a C.
Pineco in D: It's nigh-unusable. Even Munchlax is more useful than it. It shouldn't even be on the list, but if it is, then E.

Sorry to come on here and be all "you're wrong" but I felt there was enough questionable stuff in the list to make this post.

Im not going to make any more changes at the moment, but i would like to let you all know that i moved Ludicolo up to B rank for the time being. Ludicolo has always been really good and quite underrated imo, i agree with all the points made about ludicolo on the forums and on irc, its a really good rain sweeper, and its typing is pretty nice both offensively and defensively. I tested Ludicolo out on a full rain team recently and was very impressed! Ludicolo performed exceptionally well both against the mighty ladder and against decent players, its rain boosted hydro pump is a force to be reckoned with, 2hkoing threats such as cresselia and doing upwards of 40% to an amoonguss i faced (dunno what spread it had, though). Its excellent coverage between its water/grass/ice moves makes it pretty challenging to actually counter, and to make things worse for the opponent, it can set up its own rain as a standalone sweeper! Ludicolo has enough power under rain to run a timid nature so it can outrun adamant kabutops outside of rain, imo, it gives ludicolo a chance to set up rain dance vs an offensive team, and gives your team a solid kabutops check. From what ive seen so far i think i could get away with ranking ludicolo higher, but ill keep it B for now...

@aurist

I agree with some of your points, and i disagree with others, ill list what i agree/disagree with and what im neutral on, and then highlight some that i think are worth discussing more

Typhlosion: One of the main reasons typhlosion was C rank when i posted this was because i wasnt the only one working on the ranks, and quite a few people, including myself were judging typhlosion off of its shitty as fuck scarf set (seriously, why do people use this, i dont get it). There are two other typhlosion sets that may be cool, though. Ive heard good things about Choice Specs and sunny day, and i think it might be worth moving typhlosion up tbh. Nobody wants to deal with a specs full power eruption, or a blaze specs fire blast :s. I would like to hear some other thoughts on this.

Slowking: Im honestly surprised that moving slowking up to S wasnt brought up before, its always been a big threat in the RU tier, quite a few people felt it wasnt as metagame defining as before in BW2, though. I didnt exactly agree or disagree, so i just stuck slowking in A to prevent myself from being flamed. I havent used the defensive set in a while, but it has a lot of competition with cresselia atm, so ill ignore that. I REALLY like Choice Specs and OTR, though. Thanks to great coverage, good bulk and decent defensive typing for RU, and most importantly regenerator, both of these sets are excellent offensive pivots for HO and balanced teams alike. I havent used specs in a while, but i really like the combination of OTR slowking+band escavalier to just destroy everything with their good synergy, shitty speed, and excellent power/coverage. I think this might be an interesting debate, and will add this to proposed changes for sure!

Also, just going to point out that a few of the things you mentioned were the result of a certain user (not mentioning names) fucking with the ranks before i posted them, i didnt notice like 3 of them (spiritomb is an example) until just now, haha. Im going to move it down to where it was supposed to be without any problems (B rank).

I'd like to offer some feedback here as something of an outsider but one who still more or less understands the metagame. I'm an LU leader on PO (not that that makes my post any more worth listening to per se!) and have experience in the RU metagame. I feel like there's really quite a lot of things wrong with a lot of this list.

Kabutops in S: While being a solid and useful pokemon in the meta Kabutops is in no way definitive to the meta nor worthy of a position like an S-ranking. Its less than amazing bulk, mildly low speed and slight lack of power means while being a great spinner and good SD mon it's in no way an "amazing" pokemon. A ranking imo.Heh. Kabutops is actually without a doubt the top spinner in the RU meta, and SD and two decent STABs are really good. Also, it wrecks on rain teams.
Rotom-C in S: It's a great pokemon and a versatile one too. It's just not "amazing" enough at anything to be any higher than A.I dunno really. Rotom-C is really good in RU. Its STABs and HP Fire are great. Also, like the other Rotoms, he's a great candidate of Volt Switch
Escavalier in S: It feels almost too obvious to say here, but its speed cripples it so insanely that while being an absolute top threat it's not worth an S. Go for A, imo.I disagree with dropping Escavalier. I've used it before, and I must admit, Escavalier is awesome. Who needs speed? When you've got great bulk and fantastic defensive typing. Also, that CB Megahorn and Iron Head. And Pursuit to check Cryo and Sceptile. That's something. Esca is a force to reckon with, and S-Tier is where it fits in.
Fraxure in A: Feel surprised I'm debating this point, but Fraxure is a low-level threat in RU. I'd call it a B cos you guys seem to like it a lot but personally I'd put it as low as C.No. Fraxure is amazing provided the right conditions. Evio allows enough bulk to get at least one DD in. Low Kick and Superpower deal with things like Steelix and Ferroseed. DD boosted Outrages from 117 Attack. Deadly as hell. It's like a mini Haxorus.
Spiritomb in A: Spiritomb honestly does not function well in the RU meta and is barely beneficial for any team to run. I'd honestly put it in C.Sadly, Spiritomb is our best bet for a bulky Ghost-type now that Cofa has permanently departed from RU never to return. His lack of weaknesses and good bulk are great assets for a Spinblocker. Also, priority helps. But it's not really A-Rank. It's a weakling and his bulk is not that good. But hey, better than Dusknoir at least. But honestly, I'd say it's not the Top Dark-type. That title goes to Absol.
Slowking in A: The fact Slowking isn't immediately in S makes this whole thing feel really questionable. Slowking is an absolutely definitive pokemon in RU and a major glue for any team.Well, Slowking is good, but it faces competition from the likes of Cress and Uxie for the role of a bulky Psychic. It also gets beaten by Crawdaunt and Absol, two of the best Pokemon in RU (but hey, you could run Tangrowth for that, aka TanKing)
Tauros in A: This thing is like, a D at best, lol, it's horribly outclassedWhile Cinccino, Zangoose, and Swellow are bigger powerhouses than Tauros, he is in himself very powerful. Sheer Force LO Rock Climb is very powerful and can OHKO or 2HKO numerous things. It can stay A-Rank.
Swellow in B: Swellow is simply not the powerhouse in RU that it is on paper. It doesn't fit well into the RU meta. A C, imo.Lol. Swellow is powerful after getting that burn. Just use a slow U-Turn/Volt Switch user
Hitmonlee in C: Hitmonlee loses a lot in a meta with Cresselia, no doubt, but it's still one of the #1 threats for any offensive teams to face and belongs in a solid B at least.
Liepard in C: Gimmick pokemon don't belong in C. D at best.It's not that gimmicky. Prankster T-Wave and such and Liepard can troll. It's support moves can really help for the team.
Medicham in C: Again loses out in a Cresselia meta but wrecks shit way too hard to be in a damn section that contains Linoone. It's a B, imo, but whatever.Disappointing Speed, I believe. I dunno about this being in B though.
Typhlosion in C: When you have Magmortar in A I'm not sure exactly why this thing is in C? This is a solid B.Um, maybe its lack of reliable STAB? (Eruption)
Hitmonchan in D: Hitmonchan is a solid reliable pokemon, it's no Kabutops or Cryogonal when it comes to spinning but it has its place. It's a C.I find Hitmonchan to be VERY underwhelming. It's outclassed by Kabutops and Cryogonal in spinning and Medicham and Hitmonlee are better Fighting-types. Let's face it, Hitmonchan sucks.
Pineco in D: It's nigh-unusable. Even Munchlax is more useful than it. It shouldn't even be on the list, but if it is, then E.Pineco is shit, and it's bad as hell. It's better than shitty Metang at least.

Sorry to come on here and be all "you're wrong" but I felt there was enough questionable stuff in the list to make this post.

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commentary in bold

EDIT:

Also, why is Scyther in C-Rank? I've used it and it's quite a good Pokemon. Although Scyther has an awful defensive typing and such, after an SD boost he can be hard to stop. Aerial Ace and Bug Bite both boosted by Techician. He can OHKO most of the tier. Quick Attack is also nice. Brick Break is a decent coverage move to handle Ferroseed and the likes. While Scyther does have issues in shit typing defensively, and such, he has no trouble slicing and dicing his way through teams. I honestly believe Scyther is B-Rank material.

Also, Drifblim has a place in C-Rank. He's a decent Acro sweeper but just outclassed by Sceptile. Also, he's a good weather support mon. SubCM was a fantastic set for Blim, and with a Sitrus Berry he could easily attain Unburden. Salac could work too. Drifblim is good, but I think C-Rank is good for it.

Tauros: I cannot disagree with you more on this one, Tauros is one of the premier wall breakers in the RU tier, being able to destroy 2 of the most common Physical walls Steelix and Tangrowth with a well timed Sheer Force boosted Fire Blast coupled with QuakeEdge coverage and a super powerful Sheer Force boosted Rock Climb (seriously someone needs to test Tauros for performance enhancing drugs) Tauros is a solid A imo and wouldn't look out of place in the S tier.

Kabutops: Easily the best spinner in the tier currently, A simple set of SD/Aqua Jet/Stone Edge/Rapid Spin allows Kabutops to beat every single Ghost type in the tier, Kabutops has defined the metagame over the last few rounds.

I think the S-rank is a little overcrowded to be honest. When I think of S-rank Pokemon I think of things that define the metagame--think Cresselia, Moltres, Nidoqueen. I honestly don't see Rotom-C, Entei, or Uxie being at that level. Sure they're great Pokemon, but they're not what I'd call metagame-defining. Not with shit like Cress around. I would like to see those three moved down to A.

In the same vein, I don't think Drapion, Absol, Cryogonal, Lanturn, Poliwrath, or Magmortar are quite good enough to be A-ranked. I know people have this weird fetish for Poliwrath in this tier, but its lack of reliable recovery and vulnerability to really dangerous shit like Sceptile makes it hard for me to see it as an A-ranked mon. The others are just not really that good to be honest. Lanturn being the only good Moltres counter doesn't necessarily make it A, imo. Fraxure is another one that I don't think is A-rank material, but its a baller so I don't mind it being there.

Galvantula and Aggron is stupidly good, even with Nidoqueen around, I honestly don't think they should be any lower than A. Same goes for Aerodactyl and Braviary. Cinccino too, if Cress fucks off.

Okay i made a few changes because of some irc discussion, heres a brief summary of the changes that were made

I moved Uxie and Rotom-C down from S rank to A rank

I moved Magmortar down from A rank to B rank

I moved Misdreavus, Regirock, Crustle, Primeape and Archeops down from B rank to C rank

There were also some new proposed changes talked about on irc, im going to list them here.

Slowking UP from A rank to S Rank

Typhlosion UP from C rank to B rank

Cinccino UP from B rank to A rank

Aggron UP from B rank to A rank

Scolipede UP from C rank to B rank

Hitmonlee UP from C rank to B rank

Medicham UP from C rank to B rank

Samurott DOWN from B rank to C rank

Emboar DOWN from B rank to C rank

Exeggutor UP from C rank to B rank

as you can see, there is a lot going on in irc! haha, ill just say right now that i agree with/am indifferent to the majority of these with the exception of maybe emboar, all uninplemented proposed changes are still up for discussion, so you can talk about those too!

Also, as we are trying to clean up S rank, we are also trying to clean up B rank a little bit, of course its going to be the biggest rank no matter what, but it seems to be getting just a little overcrowded lately, maybe thats just me though....

Remove Metang, Pineco, and Liepard from the list. This list should be representative of relevant pokemon one can expect to see in high end battles, not stuff you can use to troll the latter.

Emboar stays B. I swear we only made this change like a weak ago but its friggin strong with terrific coverage, both in and out of Sun. Band is brutally powerful and Scarf is a terrrific mon to break through offensive teams.

Medicham should stay C. As much as I love it, the prevalence of Cresselia, Spiritomb, Uxie, and fast attackers on teams without those three makes it difficult to be particularly effective.

SLowking stays in A. I know Aurist thinks its amazing and its still a great Pokemon but not S tier in this meta. Its been dropping in relevance as the tier shifted towards offense when both Nidoqueen and Moltres were to 2HKO it and in a mroe hard hitting metagame its lost some of its niche, especially with Uxie and Cress as the go to bulky psychic types. Still a great mon, but not S tier.

I wouldn't even consider Aggron to move up until someone posts arguments for it, I can't see what's made it so much better of late between the surge of Cress and Poliqrath, and it was underwhelming when I used it.

Remove Metang, Pineco, and Liepard from the list. This list should be representative of relevant pokemon one can expect to see in high end battles, not stuff you can use to troll the latter.

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I would be fine with removing pineco and metang, but i personally think liepard deserves the rank that it has atm. Its really not a joke mon tbh, Liepard can set weather with prankster for an offensive rain or sun team, especially because it gets u-turn now, nasty plot+encore is also pretty nice when you use it correctly, liepard is frail but it can encore support moves/resisted attacks to get up a nasty plot, from there liepard has enough speed and power to sweep an offensive team. Liepard also has an annoying as fuck, yet slightly luck based Swagger/twave/foul play/sub set. This set is based on forcing switches and inflicting parafusion, you only really need swagger, but twave is cool for non sweeping stuff too. Once the opponent is at +2 you can use the opponents boosts to boost the power of your own foul play and do major damage to them.

TL;DR, ill remove metang and pineco, but i feel liepard has enough of a relevant niche to have a rank.

I'll retract my words about Tauros, I was rash saying it is horrible/outclassed.

I remain firm that Kabutops isn't an S-class pokemon, and that Slowking despite becoming less effective with each new change is still an S-class pokemon, it's still a meta-defining glue pokemon imo.

I also agree with a lot that Koko said, "Drapion, Absol, Cryogonal, Lanturn, Poliwrath, or Magmortar" i honestly think that Drapion and Lanturn are A-class for the strong roles they have in the tier, the rest have a number of flaws that imo make them B-class.

I don't agree with Cinccino going to A. It's an annoyance when it flinches your shit to death but that's not reliable nor usually that effective.

Crustle deserves a B rank imo, it and Smeargle are the best things that can dual hazard in the tier and Crustle has other uses too.

Emboar down. Like I argued in irc there's no real reason to use it over Entei unless your team is cripplingly weak to stealth rock already.

Medicham and Hitmonlee up. Especially Hitmonlee, who is a great ace in the hole against offensive teams.

Just posting to say that i have decided to move cryogonal to B rank for the time being, its a decent pokemon and one of the two good spinners in RU, but it does have some very crippling flaws that are keeping it from A rank imo. For one thing, Cryogonal is an ice-type, which speaks for itself. Ice is easily the worst single defensive type in the game, and because most people use cryogonal as a defensive spinner, this is a big problem. Cryogonal lacks any resistances other than ice and ground, and has a shitload of weaknesses. To make matters worse, cryogonal's physical bulk is severely lacking, and cryogonal often finds itself pursuit trapped or in a bad situation where if it spins, it basically sacrifices itself. Cryogonal is also often limited to one coverage move, its own STAB ice beam, multiple top Ru threats such as kabutops, entei, slowking, and escavalier resist ice, and can all find ways to seriously hurt the snowflake, with escavalier even pursuit trapping it! Obviously cryogonal is still a really good spinner, but its these key flaws that made me move it down, thoughts?

Just posting to say that i have decided to move cryogonal to B rank for the time being, its a decent pokemon and one of the two good spinners in RU, but it does have some very crippling flaws that are keeping it from A rank imo. For one thing, Cryogonal is an ice-type, which speaks for itself. Ice is easily the worst single defensive type in the game, and because most people use cryogonal as a defensive spinner, this is a big problem. Cryogonal lacks any resistances other than ice and ground, and has a shitload of weaknesses. To make matters worse, cryogonal's physical bulk is severely lacking, and cryogonal often finds itself pursuit trapped or in a bad situation where if it spins, it basically sacrifices itself. Cryogonal is also often limited to one coverage move, its own STAB ice beam, multiple top Ru threats such as kabutops, entei, slowking, and escavalier resist ice, and can all find ways to seriously hurt the snowflake, with escavalier even pursuit trapping it! Obviously cryogonal is still a really good spinner, but its these key flaws that made me move it down, thoughts?

Okay i made a few changes because of some irc discussion, heres a brief summary of the changes that were made

I moved Uxie and Rotom-C down from S rank to A rank

I moved Magmortar down from A rank to B rank

I moved Misdreavus, Regirock, Crustle, Primeape and Archeops down from B rank to C rank

There were also some new proposed changes talked about on irc, im going to list them here.

Slowking UP from A rank to S Rank

Typhlosion UP from C rank to B rank

Cinccino UP from B rank to A rank

Aggron UP from B rank to A rank

Scolipede UP from C rank to B rank

Hitmonlee UP from C rank to B rank

Medicham UP from C rank to B rank

Samurott DOWN from B rank to C rank

Emboar DOWN from B rank to C rank

Exeggutor UP from C rank to B rank

as you can see, there is a lot going on in irc! haha, ill just say right now that i agree with/am indifferent to the majority of these with the exception of maybe emboar, all uninplemented proposed changes are still up for discussion, so you can talk about those too!

Also, as we are trying to clean up S rank, we are also trying to clean up B rank a little bit, of course its going to be the biggest rank no matter what, but it seems to be getting just a little overcrowded lately, maybe thats just me though....

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Lol, why move down Archeops? It's quite the offensive powerhouse tbh. And Crustle is, alongside Smeargle, one of the best users of Spikes+Stealth Rocks.

As for Primeape, yeah, it should be C-Rank. It's not all that good anymore. Really, it's almost NU material.

Slowking has to stay in A-Rank. I've used this at least 100 times in my past as an RU player, and Slowking is great, but it is not great enough to be S. The July dropdowns of Esca and Nidoqueen as well as Moltres getting Hurricane hurt Slowking's viability. Slowking is still a viable TR candidiate, and as well as a special wall (I love using TanKing) and such, but still A-Rank.

Yes, move up Typhlosion. Specs set Eruption is awesome. It can bring the pain to the majority of the tier. I agree with it in B.

Aggron and Cinccino are good in A. Aggron's Head Smashes hurt like hell. And decent defensive typing. Cinccino is really good, and it smashes Subs and packs a lot of firepower.

Scolipede definitely deserves B. It's a really good Spikes/T-Spikes user, and the SD set wrecks shit like no tomorrow. Megahorn, EQ, and Rock Slide and easily clean teams with ease. Definitely a B-Rank Pokemon (Why must it be so lowly used?)

I'm iffy on Medicham and Hitmonlee. Also, for Emboar, that's debatable. I still think it's amazing for its ability to OHKO almost the entire tier.

Not sure about Exeggutor...

Also, for Cryo....I really like it as a spinner, but yeah, Ice typing and Base 30 Defense are a real letdown defensively. Nonetheless, fantastic special wall and spinner, even Offensive Cryo is good.

Slowking has to stay in A-Rank. I've used this at least 100 times in my past as an RU player, and Slowking is great, but it is not great enough to be S. The July dropdowns of Esca and Nidoqueen as well as Moltres getting Hurricane hurt Slowking's viability. Slowking is still a viable TR candidiate, and as well as a special wall (I love using TanKing) and such, but still A-Rank.

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Just saying that Slowking can easily take advantage of Esca and Nidoqueen. Fire Blast has easily one-shotted a bunch of Escavalier, which are even slower than Slowking for some reason, and this is coming off of a Slowking that had absolutely no investment in its Special Attack. Its hardly gimmicky either, being able to catch a bunch of Grass-types on the switch, like Tangrowth and Sceptile, and really hurt them. Nidoqueen has a hard time against Slowking thanks to recovery and regenerator allowing to switch in, and then Slowking can beat it up pretty bad with Scald or the occasional Specs.

Slowking is one of the easiest to use yet versatile Pokemon in RU, and I've probably used this guy more than any other RU Pokemon due to how reliable it is. It should definetly be an S-Ranked Pokemon.

I don't see why Slowking should be S honestly. ATM, cress outclasses Slowking in terms of a pivot for offensive teams and definitely outclasses Slowking when it comes to beating special attackers. Slowking is still very good yes, it is very versatile and is really quite powerful, but it has much more difficulty switching in on the special attackers that it should be walling-sceptile, nidoqueen, moltres etc.

Poliwrath should definitely stay A rank. Poliwrath is one of the best, if not the best physical walls in the tier right now. It beats all of the standard Cresselia counters, such as escavalier and drapion with ease, as well as Entei, Kabutops, feraligatr etc. Although it does not have reliable recovery, RestTalk is still pretty good, as you recover all of your health when you use Rest, and Sleep Talk means that you won't ever be complete set-up fodder-especially when you have Circle Throw to phaze out stat boosts.

I completely agree with Cryogonal in B. Cryo really is not what it used to be, since all the new cresselia counter, like CB Drapion, CB Escavalier etc easily deal with Cryogonal as well. The fact that it can only spin on rotom 100% of the time is also a bit of a let-down. That typing means it can't come in on all that much, and with that hideous defence stat Cryo will often have to sack itself to pull of a spin, which other spinners such as Kabutops don't have to do.

I'd also like to propose Moltres to A rank. I know that it is one of the most dangerous mons in the tier, but it just got a new hard-counter in Cresselia-which means that Moltres won't be smashing through teams left and right. Moltres is also incredibly unreliable. Hurricane has a very good chance of missing, and two hits in a row has only a 50% chance of happening. Moltres also needs quite a lot of support, mainly RS support. If Moltres doesn't have spin support then it will be losing a huge chunk of it's health every switch in. It's this huge level of support that makes me think Moltres should be A.

I'd also like to see Ferroseed moved up to B. The amount of support that Ferroseed provides surely cements it as a B rank poke. Thunder Wave, Spikes, Stealth Rock, Leech Seed-these are just a few things that Ferroseed can do to support its team. Thanks to its typing, it can set-up spikes / sr on a lot of different pokes, like Lanturn and Rotom-C, and also use Thunder Wave to cripple things that think they can come in on Ferroseed for free(high Moltres). Ferroseed is also not nearly as weak as some of you guys think. It 1HKO's things like Aerodactyl with Gyro Ball, and 2HKO's Sceptile. Thanks to Iron Barbs and Leech Seed, ferroseed is often able to just drain your health away through residual damage, like against LO Kabutops or Cincinno and Zangoose, who is taking Iron Barbs damage and either LO recoil or Toxic Orb recoil. Unless the opponent enjoys being paralyzed, i.e. Trick Room teams, then Ferroseed is quite hard to switch into, and with the residual damage even harder to set-up on, and even if they do they will only be left with a little bit of health. Thanks to its typing it is also an excellent counter to rain teams, and can easily start firing off TWave's left and right.

As part of our IRC discussion last night, there are a couple of things that I think should happen. I think that Slowking should move up to S-rank, and that Omastar should move down to C-rank.

Slowking is still an amazing pivot in this metagame, and while it does face some competition from Cresselia, it has a far better offensive movepool and is much more versatile. It's still the ultimate glue Pokemon, and can still fit on literally any team. It also boasts the ability to counter Entei, which Cresselia lacks (even if you run max Defense Cresselia, you get Pressure-stalled out of Moonlight PP really easily). It still has awesome resistances to check some of the tier's top threats, and the only thing that can safely switch into all of its sets is Munchlax, which sucks. I support Slowking for S-rank.

Omastar just really isn't that good in the metagame anymore. It finds it extremely difficult to set up, and even if it does set up, it can easily be stopped by both offensive and defensive teams by Choice Scarf users and walls, respectively. Who would've thought that Omastar would've fallen this far, but it's just really not that good anymore. I'd like to nominate Omastar for C-rank, and I already have support from users Double01 and Swamp-Rocket.