Diablo 3 - How the DRM Will Affect You

Originally Posted by DArtagnan
This isn't a singleplayer game where savegames matter. It's about the character progress, which gets saved with every single change you make.

This is exactly how it worked in Diablo 2 Battle.net as well - and it should have been obvious that it'd work like this.

Some people want to play this as a 20 hours singleplayer game by themselves and then stop playing. I know this blows your mind, but it's the truth. I would actually estimate most people will do this, based on numbers I have read about similar "multiplayer focused" games.

Originally Posted by skavenhorde
I really do want to hate this game too. I don't want this trend of keeping some of the game on a server to continue, but if the game is good then dang it I'll have to get it too.

Bad news, this sort of design is going to become more popular and much more common.

This feature really doesn't bother me, maybe because I remember how badly the cheaters and dupers ruined my D1 experiences. Maybe because I pretty much only play MMOs and connectivity is something I very, very rarely have issues with (thanks, Bright House!). Admittedly I would sing a different tune if I had an unreliable connection.

I find it sad & tiresome the article degenerated to yet another rant about no SP. Wah. On the other hand, perhaps it's food for thought Blizzard should have considered more given the current outcry. Oh well.

Let's complain to Blizzard instead about the absence of a plate wearing melee class

Originally Posted by EvilManagedCare
I find it sad & tiresome the article degenerated to yet another rant about no SP.

The article is imho rather an testament of how much the MP-players have won over the single-players.

SP is going to die out, I fear, and it will be to a huge part because MP-folks had demanded it to be so since ten years ago now.

It says a lot about power of one group of gamers over another one, cynically put.
Becaue Blizzard follows the one group - and not both at the same time.

--  Any intelligent fool can make things bigger, more complex, and more violent. It takes a touch of genius  and a lot of courage  to move in the opposite direction. (E.F.Schumacher, Economist, Source)

I don't think SP will die, but I do think we will continue to see more and more games that are "online" and you then can choose to create your own private game or if you choose open it up and co-op or pvp or whatever.

In my opinion (and it's a guess) the percent of those that will actually be effected; those with no or very limited net access…is quite small in today's world.

Now if you have a game that is designed in a way and is a true SP RPG then no problem, but if there is a multiplayer aspect to the game and a worry about security (hacks/dupes and such) then I think more and more will require an online connection for verification and game creation and security.

Especially a game with a item/loot economy. It makes sense…I guess we'll see how well it actually works and if Blizzard will be able to keep their servers up and secure.

But really, if one is a gamer…this is just another hoop that's becoming needed to jump through, just like keeping your system up to date and at a lvl where you can play the games you what to play. It's the same thing. Some games will and logically so based on their design and features, require an online connection.

Originally Posted by DoctorNarrative
Some people want to play this as a 20 hours singleplayer game by themselves and then stop playing. I know this blows your mind, but it's the truth. I would actually estimate most people will do this, based on numbers I have read about similar "multiplayer focused" games.

I'll certainly play it primarily as a single player game, but I think it's fine for that. D2 was just as multiplayer focused and it didn't stop me from having a ton of fun playing it on my own. D3 even has at least one major feature that is only available in single player, so it will arguably support single play even more then D2 did.

I absolutely hated the save system in D2, so this isn't any surprise, but it ruined it for me. That's cool, because they're pitching at that dedicated online grinder, anyway, so I think I'll pass and look towards Grim Dawn.

Originally Posted by EvilManagedCare
Bad news, this sort of design is going to become more popular and much more common.

With what single-player games has this been done in? (MMOs don't count because they are entirely based for online gaming) This is a first as far as I know. Even games made with Steam in mind let me play offline with no problems what-so-ever. The only exception recently has been Dead Island, but that is a problem they are fixing with the next patch hopefully.

Originally Posted by Alrik Fassbauer
The article is imho rather an testament of how much the MP-players have won over the single-players.

SP is going to die out, I fear, and it will be to a huge part because MP-folks had demanded it to be so since ten years ago now.

It says a lot about power of one group of gamers over another one, cynically put.
Becaue Blizzard follows the one group - and not both at the same time.

Never I will go down fighting while cursing people who just rolled over and accepted the change.

It must be hard for people to accept others Dont like MP or MMO's. It has nothing to do with having a internet connection.

I own a 360 and ps3 and there not connected to the internet.

See Its all about having full control of there property. Read there lovely user agreement next time you install starcraft 2. You basically give them full control and let them gripe you by your balls just to play.

Originally Posted by Moriendor
Uuh yes. Diablo 2 actually had checkpoints so where is the (feigned) surprise coming from?

Check point saves and game pads, things that were a part of PC gaming long long before PC Gaming and Console gaming started to mix, yet many PC gamers forgot this and blame the consoles for having it today -.-

I understand people who don't like the online aspect, but I'm having difficulty understanding how this no-pause information can be a surprise.

It's as if you've never played a Diablo game online before.

The article is bullshit in terms of "progress lost". The entire beta is very short and it has plenty of checkpoints. The amount of progress lost is trivial - especially if you consider what the game is about. The design is about killing stuff and your character is your savegame. If you have to kill monsters in the same area (though new in terms of how it's generated) for 5-10 minutes again - then you're progressing from EXACTLY the same point as when you were logged out.

Your character is saved constantly, and you will never lose progress with that character. To complete the content is just the first stepping stone. Eventually, you'll have access to all checkpoint in all maps, and you'll be travelling back and forth as if the linear path had never been there. Like all Diablo games, it was never about completing the game once and then you're done.

Sure, you could make it be about that - and you could play the game counter to the intention of the design - but it wasn't the concept.

The game works with RANDOMLY generated content, including maps. The world map isn't "saved" as part of your game.

They didn't do this to annoy people, but because it's the only feasible way to store data on the servers.

DArtagnan

Well, that's kind of the point, isn't it? Most of us who play SP will feel force-fed the "online experience", so the lack of a pause was never something we got used to or liked. I know that I will be playing from a home office, between business calls. WTH am I suppose to do every time the phone rings, log out and lose progress? Not ideal.

Originally Posted by Santos
"No Diablo game ever had a pause function during online play."

Well, that's kind of the point, isn't it? Most of us who play SP will feel force-fed the "online experience", so the lack of a pause was never something we got used to or liked. I know that I will be playing from a home office, between business calls. WTH am I suppose to do every time the phone rings, log out and lose progress? Not ideal.

Yeah, I know that's the point. I know that people think they're being "force-fed" when Blizzard offer to sell them their new game that works only when being online.

But we've been through this a million times before this news piece.

If people are going to react every time this kind of thing is brought up, they'll be exhausted by the time the game comes out.

The point is:

Yes, it's going to be an online game - and it's going to work exactly like an online game.

DArtagnan

Originally Posted by DArtagnan
The article is bullshit in terms of "progress lost". The entire beta is very short and it has plenty of checkpoints. The amount of progress lost is trivial - especially if you consider what the game is about. The design is about killing stuff and your character is your savegame. If you have to kill monsters in the same area (though new in terms of how it's generated) for 5-10 minutes again - then you're progressing from EXACTLY the same point as when you were logged out.

Your character is saved constantly, and you will never lose progress with that character. To complete the content is just the first stepping stone. Eventually, you'll have access to all checkpoint in all maps, and you'll be travelling back and forth as if the linear path had never been there. Like all Diablo games, it was never about completing the game once and then you're done.

I don't think like that at all when playing Diablo or Diablo 2. I like making actual progress - new areas, new monsters, new bosses. I hate re-clearing old stuff, and I hardly ever play Nightmare or Hell because it feels like I'm simply repeating something I just did.

I do the same thing in Titan's Quest, Sacred and so on. I like the first playthrough, and building my character up to a certain point, but I never do any of the actual grinding.

Originally Posted by Maylander
I don't think like that at all when playing Diablo or Diablo 2. I like making actual progress - new areas, new monsters, new bosses. I hate re-clearing old stuff, and I hardly ever play Nightmare or Hell because it feels like I'm simply repeating something I just did.

I do the same thing in Titan's Quest, Sacred and so on. I like the first playthrough, and building my character up to a certain point, but I never do any of the actual grinding.

If you don't like "grinding" to build up your character, then I have to say you're playing the wrong game. Normal difficulty is the tutorial. Nightmare, Hell, and Inferno is where your character is tested - and where the real meat and challenge of the design lies.

Naturally, I'd never tell you to play the game according to the design - but I'm surprised that anyone with Diablo experience - would expect an online-only version to save each player's individual map layout and position on the map for all their characters. Especially considering that it's all randomly generated. Any iteration of the map layout is almost incidental - and is just meant as an excuse to have a place to slaugther things with your character.

The story can be fun and I'm sure it's going to be. But like any game rooted firmly in the rogue-like genre, it's not about the story. That's more like a bonus.

D and D2 didn't save map layouts or positions on Battle.net. True, they had offline versions as well - but D2 didn't save your position either.

If you don't like the online implications, then I understand that and I can respect that.

DArtagnan

Originally Posted by DArtagnan
If you don't like "grinding" to build up your character, then I have to say you're playing the wrong game. Normal difficulty is the tutorial. Nightmare, Hell, and Inferno is where your character is tested - and where the real meat and challenge of the design lies.

Naturally, I'd never tell you to play the game according to the design - but I'm surprised that anyone with Diablo experience - would expect an online-only version to save each player's individual map layout and position on the map. Especially considering that it's all randomly generated.

D and D2 didn't do that on Battle.net.

If you don't like the online implications, then I understand that and I can respect that.

In that case, I certainly wouldn't buy this game.

What I failed to realize until I read this article is that online mode means multiplayer mode, even for the single player campaign.

There's a vast difference between that and merely being connected at all times - Assassin's Creed 2 also had a redicilous stay-online-at-all-times system, but it didn't have any crazy restrictions in addition to having to stay online.

Originally Posted by DArtagnan
D and D2 didn't save map layouts or positions on Battle.net. True, they had offline versions as well - but D2 didn't save your position either.

True, but they didn't log you out because you had to take a phonecall or answer the door.

Originally Posted by Maylander
What I failed to realize until I read this article is that online mode means multiplayer mode, even for the single player campaign.

There's a vast difference between that and merely being connected at all times - Assassin's Creed 2 also had a redicilous stay-online-at-all-times system, but it didn't have any crazy restrictions in addition to having to stay online.

Online mode in Diablo 3 works exactly like online mode in Diablo and Diablo 2.

*EDIT* Ok, the game WILL eventually log you out if you're idle for too long.

Well, except that Diablo didn't have checkpoints - and you had to do a lot more backtracking to get to your last position if you logged out.

A LOT of people played Diablo and Diablo 2 alone on Battle.net - just to be part of the potential trading community and to have access to the gear exclusive to that mode. I, personally, played a lot of characters online without ever joining up with anyone.

The only change is that you have to be online with Diablo 3 - and that you can't play offline.

That's what I'm saying is old news, and don't understand the "new" reaction.

It's as if people just don't remember how Diablo and Diablo 2 worked.

True, but they didn't log you out because you had to take a phonecall or answer the door.

Well, I honestly don't remember if you could be logged in indefinitely.

But, I generally don't take long to answer a phonecall or the door.

I haven't played the beta personally, but I'm pretty sure Blizzard will not want people to be punished for doing such things.

I'd be surprised if you didn't get, at least, 15 minutes before a log-out happens.

If that's REALLY such a realistic concern, then I guess I'm just surprised.

DArtagnan

Originally Posted by DArtagnan
The only change is that you have to be online with Diablo 3 - and that you can't play offline.

I think a lot of people, me included, expected single player mode to differ from D2 multiplayer mode, despite being online. Simply playing solo in a multiplayer game doesn't make it single player.

Saying that the game only has online mode is not the same as saying it doesn't have single player, which is actually the case. It has multiplayer mode that you can play solo if you want, but doing so will not make it a single player game anymore than playing on an empty WoW server makes it a single player game.

Originally Posted by Maylander
I think a lot of people, me included, expected single player mode to differ from D2 multiplayer mode, despite being online. Simply playing solo in a multiplayer game doesn't make it single player.

Saying that the game only has online mode is not the same as saying it doesn't have single player, which is actually the case. It has multiplayer mode that you can play solo if you want, but doing so will not make it a single player game anymore than playing on an empty WoW server makes it a single player game.

I don't really care about all these distinctions.

The fact is that if I want to play the game alone, I can. I can get all the content in the exact same way I could in Diablo 2. If you take an extended break from the game, it logs you out - true. Is that a big issue? Maybe to you. Personally, I'd have to call complete bullshit on that - but there's no way to logically argue against it.

I can't claim that people are overreacting without knowing how long they tend to leave their games alone when taking a break.

Personally, I'd just spend a few minutes getting to a checkpoint and then quit - if I had to leave the game alone. Just like I'd have done in any check-point based singleplayer game in existence - because I don't want to risk a crash or something when I have to take a long break. An annoyance in a "story-oriented" experience driven game. In a game like Diablo 3, where your character is your progress, it's an absolutely miniscule concern at worst. But that's me.

There are more multiplayer facilities and opportunities, and the environment is likely to be a lot more secure and stable.

If YOU don't think that makes the singleplayer aspect worthwhile - then that's your business.

I just don't understand how this online-only server structure can come as a surprise to anyone. It works EXACTLY like I would expect it to work.