Atheism can also be the absence of religion. An atheist could be a person who just doesn't speak or use the word "God". The absence of religion is
not a religion. The absence of belief is not a belief.

What I don't understand is why theists lack the necessary faith to love atheists as if they were theists. I think the way theists treat atheists
shows a particular lack of reverence for God.

It's weird how the theists just can't accept the atheist position. I think the atheists need to understand the theist position on the existence of
the divine. The purpose of religion is to provide definitive answers to the four great existential questions:

1. Who am I?
2. Why am I here?
3. What does it all mean?
4. What is going to happen to me when I die?

Some atheists may not get how difficult it is for some theists not have definitive answers to these questions. Religion provides a context in which
these questions are answered. But not only are they answered, but there is an additional bit of delusion that a theists' life has divine purpose in
the Universe. It may be just pretend to think that one's life has divine purpose. But that is how theists think. And for some theists, the idea of
atheism is like death itself.

Most atheists I've known, they generally do not believe anything is divine. Most atheists believe the Universe is mundane. Everything in the
Universe is just patterns of energy and mass mindlessly performing the laws of physics. Where no one pattern has any more meaning than any other
pattern. This idea that there is no meaning to any pattern or experience in the Universe is an interpretation. So based on this idea, here is a good
argument for the theist way of thinking. If it's all meaningless, then it's also meaningless that it is meaningless. So you can choose one way or
the other. People who are theists choose an interpretation, which may be pure delusion, that the patterns in the Universe have divine meaning. What
difference does it make if it is all meaningless anyway. At least with the divine delusion, we have a meaningful life. That is the way many theists
think even though they are not so introspective.

What bother's me about theists is that they spend any mental energy at all with atheism. Why should a theist care if someone lacks a belief in God?
What difference does it make to the faithful? A person's faith should be stronger than anything. I think any theists who speaks out against atheism
is admission of weakness in their beliefs. The value of religion is not diminished by atheism or atheists. And the fear that it does is a sign of
weakness.

Years ago in my twenties I was an atheist. I used to argue on USENET the atheist position. It's a very easy position to argue. So just for fun I
tried to argue for the theist position. It's way more challenging! After about 10 years I started to believe my own arguments! If you are atheist,
you should try it sometime! It's like the most extreme Sudoku to solve.

You could go back to the start read the threads, and then use your brain for something besides its natural instincts

The video was great. It's very interesting how people just can't accept that absence-of-belief is not a-belief. It's like they are desperate to
frame the conversation so the existence of God is an absolute premise in the language.

If there is no reasonably acceptable evidence for God's existence then there isn't any. Many if not most theists claim some sequence of their life
experiences is evidence for the existence of God. Some theists claim ALL of existence is absolute evidence for the existence of God. This is the
root of the problem. Nobody can agree on which subjective judgment qualifies as objective evidence for the existence of God. When you hold an apple
in your hand, nobody denies the existence of apples. But with God, all evidence presented by the theists is considered not to be valid evidence by
the atheists.

I think this is an important part of the conversation. Many theists complain that atheist have a strong prejudice against accepting any evidence as
evidence for the existence of God. And if God did show up with bellowing voice from the sky I imagine most atheists would think it was some kind of
extraterrestrial being pretending to be God like some Star Trek episode.

But that's okay. As I've posted previously, I think any theist who feels threaten or speaks out against atheism is just showing or exhibiting a lack
of faith in their own beliefs. Faith in God is not premised by experience. People who have strong faith do so precisely because there is no
evidence.

The idea of faith and religion is very interesting from the theist point of view. To the atheist, the acceptance of the existence of God is a
rational "decision" based on evidence. A atheist would argue are there any other kinds of decisions other than rational ones. But a theist is not
making a "decision". A theist is making a "choice". The choice to have faith in God is not a "decision" precisely because there is no evidence or
rational chain of reasoning. Having faith in God is a leap in consciousness where the idea of the existence of God is more like a premise to an
entire system of thought or way of thinking.

Inventing a premise, and living life according to that premise, may seem imaginary and delusional, but to someone of faith, the subjective judgment is
that the premise has intrinsic value.

originally posted by: tikbalang
You could go back to the start read the threads, and then use your brain for something besides its natural instincts

I read it smart guy. So now what else have you got???

It's not a "belief system". Even if you want to change language so that a "Non-Belief" is a "Belief" it's still not a system of any kind. No
component parts of any kind which by definition a system must have to be called a system.

There is one component to someone being an Atheist and that's it. That's not a system.

It's not a "belief system". Even if you want to change language so that a "Non-Belief" is a "Belief" it's still not a system of any kind. No
component parts of any kind which by definition a system must have to be called a system.

There is one component to someone being an Atheist and that's it. That's not a system.

Yes.....

Atheism is not a belief system it is a cog in a belief system.All engines do not use pistons some use rotors.They are only part of how the system
functions.A Belief System is how a person perceives their world.Everything is in essence belief because all of the facts cannot be known.Physicist
know much more about the quantum world but the majority is a mystery and completely contradicts(quantum entanglement) what is perceived as
"reality".

The fact is humans can only perceive through a distorted lens of space time continuum.Physicist are attempting to crack the code but they are a long
long way off but the advancements are monumental so far for where it was even a hundred years ago.
However the core of the human existence is based on perception(belief through faith) no matter how much we think we know and can manipulate
matter.Physics taken at face value it makes very little sense there is so little known about how it truly works.The bottom line is the existence of
ALL mankind on earth in relationship to the universe is a puff of smoke.This reality rings of futility and tha’ts not to be a pessimist but a true
realist.

That is the core reason many people believe in their “God”.It is the hope against the futility of life that has no light of true hope in it’s
existence because it will all end in death.A Belief System with God as the main gear is built on hope not belief through faith that is
natural.Everyone has faith in their Belief System because that it is the machines system function it is the mechanism of perception that are different
.Unfortunatly most times life is much like a demolition derby with everyone driving nilly willy crashing into each other and not caring just wanting
to be the last standing.Now THAT is futility.

There are not two camps of people, some theist and some atheist, there is one camp …ALL religious.Everyone with their own unique Belief System that
is totally out of wack to true reality.Anyone that “knew” what was really going on would exist this reality.It would be a thin puff of smoke at
best.They would never believe the insanity humans do because it is all death!
and it should be very obvious there is none that are doing that.There are a multitude that believe they are in one form or another.

In a sense The Matrix is real.Humans cannot perceive their true condition or they wouldn’t be in it!!This wouldn’t be a world of belief but of
knowing.The perverse perception is there is a way to transcend the human condition by action when that is the very cause of all human belief and why
it is infinitely significant.In effect this life is like a human conception with a lower form of awareness.When a human is being formed in the womb
its cell mitosis and many other processes “grow” the body without a form of consciousness .

This conception of this life is conscious with our experiences forming our Belief System so it can grow to a KNOW system.The fact is you have to
believe before you can know, except human know is still a form of belief.In a effect it is like doing a mundane task over and over until it is reflex
and the conscious belief is suspended and then replaced with what humans perceive as facts and the glaring fact right now is ALL human perception is
in a Belief System.

originally posted by: Rex282
Atheism is not a belief system it is a cog in a belief system.

Now that I can agree with. Atheism is just a tiny aspect of someone's overall "Belief System". It is certainly not THE "Belief System" in and of
itself.

Atheists are not all the same. They simply have ONE thing in common which is they don't believe in a God/Gods/Goddesses of a personal nature. That's
it. They might believe in ghosts or unicorns or dragons or who knows what else. They just don't believe there is a God Being that is said to exist
by some main stream religions. Most aren't opposed to the idea even. They just don't think he/she is there based upon what others claim.

It's not that difficult really. Buddhists are considered Atheist as well. Because Buddhism doesn't teach that there is a God being. Hinduism
teaches of multiple God beings although they are spoken of in a more metaphorical way rather than actually being an entity. In Greek myth you had
many Gods as well. If you actually believe that they existed in a real way like in the stories then you'd be a theist. If you don't then you'd be an
Atheist.

Atheism isn't complicated. There are no rules or anything you need to do or know or learn. You can either be labeled as an Atheist or not based on
one simple belief and whether you have it or not.

Its no more a belief that i dont 'believe' that vampires or pixies exist.

Like the box example in the video.

It is my 'belief' that there is no apple or cat in the box due to a lack of evidence.

It is my 'belief' that i dont know whats in the box.

Coomba98

The word "God" is different than vampires or pixies. God is the only word that represents not only God in the Bible, but all of existence known and
unknown in terms of everything that is possible. The word God represents something bigger than just the masculine God described in the Bible. So as
a word, just the way it is used in language, is different than the word "vampire" or "pixies".

That said, aside from how the word God is used in language, not believing in God as described in the Bible because there is no evidence is a fine
position. There really is no evidence for the existence of God which is why people choose to have faith in God existence and His divine nature as
opposed to making a decision that he exists based on evidence. A decision is based on reasons. A choice is based on no reasons.

originally posted by: Rex282
Atheism is not a belief system it is a cog in a belief system.

Atheism is word. It means not having a belief in God. Many people have this lack of belief in God because God seems to only exist in our words,
language, and imagination. Children have imaginary friends. Adults take care of themselves and others.

originally posted by: Rex282
A Belief System is how a person perceives their world.Everything is in essence belief because all of the facts cannot be known.Physicist know much
more about the quantum world but the majority is a mystery and completely contradicts(quantum entanglement) what is perceived as "reality".

Although there are cracks in the standard model at the smallest scale of measurement, the standard model is amazingly predictive, accurate, and
complete with our size objects.

I get your idea that everyone has their own interpretation of everything based on their own personal dogma which is unique to each person. However,
the amazing thing about the standard model is so many people share it equally. It doesn't require a lot energy to defend it because everyone
experiences it same. Unlike God, which requires huge amounts of mental energy to defend because everyone's idea on God is so different.

originally posted by: Rex282
The fact is humans can only perceive through a distorted lens of space time continuum.

This is not quite true. In reality, everyday, we all share very similar experiences all the time. We may experience different emotions or reactions
to our experiences based on our life history. But everyone experiences rain as wet and very much in a similar way.

originally posted by: Rex282
That is the core reason many people believe in their “God”. It is the hope against the futility of life that has no light of true hope in it’s
existence because it will all end in death.

It is also meaningless that is it is meaningless. So you might as well "choose" meaningful over the "futility" interpretation of life. This is why
people have faith in the divine meaning of their lives. Yes it is pure delusion but who cares if it doesn't hurt anyone and it works.

Many Eastern religions believe all usage of words and language are a form of delusion including math and science. To a mystic, zero equals infinity
and the idea of duality doesn't exist. This is because in the single moment of existence one is experiencing no words, no boundaries, no time, and no
limitations. To the mystic, time doesn't exist and everything is connected to everything else in a single experience of "moment" with no divisions
of self with reality.

originally posted by: Rex282
Everyone with their own unique Belief System that is totally out of wack to true reality. Anyone that “knew” what was really going on would exist
this reality.It would be a thin puff of smoke at best.They would never believe the insanity humans do because it is all death!

When I first read this I was thinking this guy thinks he "knows" and is therefore implying he is insane based on what he wrote. The very funny
Eastern religious quote: Someone who thinks he knows doesn't know. Someone who thinks he doesn't know does know.

I disagree with your idea that we do not know what is going on in reality. We know enough to the level where when you finally get to the stuff we do
not know the remaining stuff is pretty much irrelevant.

originally posted by: Rex282
In a effect it is like doing a mundane task over and over until it is reflex and the conscious belief is suspended and then replaced with what humans
perceive as facts and the glaring fact right now is ALL human perception is in a Belief System.

It is true that our brains will fill in experiences to present a more complete reality to our mind. But our brain also presents most of reality to
our minds as it really exists. Most people who think about the nature of language and meaning know words are a representation of reality. Word are
NOT the reality they represent. I don't think there's anything magical or mystical about the way our brain fills in the blanks with our experience
of reality. I don't think it means anything as significant as you are making it out to be.

You have to be careful with the word "fact". Many people do not have any distinction between "facts" and "opinions". There is very clear distinction
worth studying between subjective experience and what is objective experience. Subjectivity versus objectivity is a very old distinction of
philosophy worth studying.

However, the OP was making a very fine point about the word atheism. I think it is important not to lose the sight of the thread. Atheism doesn't
mean denying the existence of God. It just means "not having a belief in God". The absence of religion is NOT a religion. The absence of belief is
NOT a belief. You seem to think the absence of belief is a belief which it is not because it doesn't exist.

Of course, some people use the word "God" to be a container for all that is known and all that is not known. So in a very strange semantic way
atheism is an expression of one side of God's existence but just using a different word for God. Atheism is the God of that which is not known.
That idea is not going to go over well with the atheists!

Many people believe in a pantheistic type God which not only includes reality but everyone's thoughts about reality. We are the Universes way of
experiencing itself. And what we experience is the very stuff we are made of which is a strange feedback loop of experience.

pan·the·ism - a doctrine that identifies God with the universe, or regards the universe as a manifestation of God.

It's not a "belief system". Even if you want to change language so that a "Non-Belief" is a "Belief" it's still not a system of any kind. No
component parts of any kind which by definition a system must have to be called a system.

There is one component to someone being an Atheist and that's it. That's not a system.

Yes.....

Atheism is not a belief system it is a cog in a belief system.All engines do not use pistons some use rotors.They are only part of how the system
functions.A Belief System is how a person perceives their world.Everything is in essence belief because all of the facts cannot be known.Physicist
know much more about the quantum world but the majority is a mystery and completely contradicts(quantum entanglement) what is perceived as
"reality".

The fact is humans can only perceive through a distorted lens of space time continuum.Physicist are attempting to crack the code but they are a long
long way off but the advancements are monumental so far for where it was even a hundred years ago.
However the core of the human existence is based on perception(belief through faith) no matter how much we think we know and can manipulate
matter.Physics taken at face value it makes very little sense there is so little known about how it truly works.The bottom line is the existence of
ALL mankind on earth in relationship to the universe is a puff of smoke.This reality rings of futility and tha’ts not to be a pessimist but a true
realist.

That is the core reason many people believe in their “God”.It is the hope against the futility of life that has no light of true hope in it’s
existence because it will all end in death.A Belief System with God as the main gear is built on hope not belief through faith that is
natural.Everyone has faith in their Belief System because that it is the machines system function it is the mechanism of perception that are different
.Unfortunatly most times life is much like a demolition derby with everyone driving nilly willy crashing into each other and not caring just wanting
to be the last standing.Now THAT is futility.

There are not two camps of people, some theist and some atheist, there is one camp …ALL religious.Everyone with their own unique Belief System that
is totally out of wack to true reality.Anyone that “knew” what was really going on would exist this reality.It would be a thin puff of smoke at
best.They would never believe the insanity humans do because it is all death!
and it should be very obvious there is none that are doing that.There are a multitude that believe they are in one form or another.

In a sense The Matrix is real.Humans cannot perceive their true condition or they wouldn’t be in it!!This wouldn’t be a world of belief but of
knowing.The perverse perception is there is a way to transcend the human condition by action when that is the very cause of all human belief and why
it is infinitely significant.In effect this life is like a human conception with a lower form of awareness.When a human is being formed in the womb
its cell mitosis and many other processes “grow” the body without a form of consciousness .

This conception of this life is conscious with our experiences forming our Belief System so it can grow to a KNOW system.The fact is you have to
believe before you can know, except human know is still a form of belief.In a effect it is like doing a mundane task over and over until it is reflex
and the conscious belief is suspended and then replaced with what humans perceive as facts and the glaring fact right now is ALL human perception is
in a Belief System.

"The fact is you have to believe before you can know".....that belief is a system because of context...it involves sets of principles..

I think your making a belief or disbelief in god bigger than what it is.

I see the god premise no bigger than the vampire or pixe premise.

For instance, is it your belief that god does not exist... key word is belief.

Coomba98

Many people who have a belief in God are not doing it based on reason. They are making a choice to believe in God based on "no reason". People have
faith in God precisely because there is no evidence for the existence of God. But for some strange reason people insist with regards to God there
must be evidence and reasons to accept the existence of God as being valid. There is a big distinction between making a choice and making a
decision. Most people of faith just accept the lack of evidence of God's existence as not meaning anything that would reduce or eliminate their faith
in God.

God is a much different word than vampire or pixie premise. God is a word that represents everything known and not known. God is often used in
sentence to represent everything that exists and everything that can possibly exist. The word God, at least the way I see people use it in sentences,
is a whole lot more than just how God is described in the Bible. In a pantheistic way of thinking of God, God is all of existence.

I have no problem with you choice of making God smaller than what the word means. There's nothing you are going to say that will change my faith in
meaning of the word God. Faith is different than belief in my mind. There's a bit of choice in assuming a premise is true. And based on that
assumption, then a whole set of meaningful assertions will follow. Is it right, is it wrong, who knows. Everyone is entitled to their own opinions
on what is meaningful and what is not. One person's junk science is another person's published paper. It's all subjective judgment.

Not really. The way it was explained to me by a professor of philosophy is this:

1. Atheism: The BELIEF that God does not exist.
2. Theism: The BELIEF that God exists.
3. Agnosticism: Refusing to take a stance of BELIEF for either.

It is clear from these definitions that Atheism is a belief system. It's not just a rejection; it's a replacement of one system with another. If you
continue to insist this is not how it works, from a technically logical position, you're doing it wrong.

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