The gun situation in America - the best solution?

Hi all, Oztard here with some thoughts on the gun situation in America. I'll do my best to give my opinions on what I feel is the best solution to prevent or reduce the impact/severity of future mass killings by nut jobs with guns or other weapons, as well as my reasoning behind my opinions...

Firstly, it seems that most people respond from an emotional standpoint regarding gun ownership in the U.S.A., especially after such tragedies as the recent shooting of young children at a primary school in CT. I don't think that this is a good point to start from in any debate, regardless of the circumstances. I think most rational people would agree.

In a nutshell, although it seems counter intuitive, I think MORE guns are the answer, at least in the rather special case of the U.S.A. My reasoning behind this statement is below, and applicable especially to the U.S.A., but some points may also apply to other nations, but perhaps not.

1) There are more guns in the U.S.A. than people. Any type of gun control law, especially that requiring the disarming of people (either via forced confiscation, or some kind of benign 'amnesty'/hand-in) will fail in a spectacular way. Only the law abiding citizens would comply, leaving tens of millions (if not more) of guns on the black market/underground and in the hands of people that should NEVER own a gun. It's obvious that this situation would lead to a massive spike in crime, of all types, for obvious reasons.

2) Certain people should be required by law to own a firearm and be trained in its safe and proper use. Such people would include; teachers, professors (ALL staff at educational institutions would be best), public servants, all staff of any premises where a lot of people gather (such as shopping malls, sports stadiums, libraries, cinemas, etc). These people should have a concealed firearm on their person at all times whilst performing their duties.

3) As per point two (2), ALL citizens of the U.S.A. without a criminal history or known psychiatric problem(s), should be permitted to carry a concealed firearm just like the individuals mentioned in point two. This would also require proper training etc of course. Children should be taught about firearm safety to avoid accidents as much as possible. It would be hoped that children would never be able to even touch a gun in their home, let alone get a chance to shoot themselves or someone else accidentally. Of course, once children reach a certain age, they should be trained in the safe use and handling of a firearm too, in the event that the child needs to use it to defend his/her family and property from an intruder.

4) Guns and related industries in the U.S.A. provide a LOT of jobs, profit and tax revenue. Not only manufacturers of firearms make money, but gun sellers (gun shops, stalls at fairs etc) gunsmiths and ammunition manufacturers. Include in that those whom transport all these things (truck drivers, couriers) as well as those that that provide security for said items (security guards and police). Not to mention companies that manufacture safes, trigger locks, gun racks, storage cabinets and all manner of gun accessories.

5) Lastly, if people were permitted to carry a concealed firearm as per points one (1) and (2) two, there are so many tragedies that could have been outright prevented, or the death toll would have been dramatically reduced. Think of any mass murder of people by shooting or other means in just recent American history (e.g., crashing a fully loaded passenger jet into a building) and you can see the logic here. In the very recent case of the school in CT, the killer probably wouldn't have made it past the office/front entrance. The so-called 9/11 incidents would not have happened as they did if passengers and crew were carrying. The terrorists would have been shot dead before even making it to the cockpit. Hell, they may not have even tried to do what they did in the first place.

Anyone that comes from a country where there are few guns floating around to begin with, even before any bans or heavy restrictions, cannot apply their situation to the U.S.A. It is foolish to think so - there are more guns than people over there!

I think he is a rural fire fighter cause he uses their strategy ie fight fire with fire. I like it It makes sence. I think they should issue guns to kids to at the start of school. Just a little 6 shooter.

Too rational and thus boring for GLP? Maybe the thread title is not provocative enough?

I've seen tons of ridiculous threads get thousands of views, lots of stars and pins. I make a thread with at least a little bit of substance and no one's interested? Not even a bite from anti-gun types?

I admit I enjoy the craziness on GLP - this is the main reason I visit the site - for entertainment :-D The majority of threads on here are pretty far from reality. I could probably count on one hand the threads which are both accurate and as close to the truth as we are likely to get...

While I agree with much of what was said in this post I must say on point 2 that I think Requiring a person to be armed is just as wrong as saying that they can not be armed.

For a person to Carry a gun a few simple rules.1) The person must want to carry the Gun, and be willing to use it, in their defense or the defense of others.

2) The person must be of sound mind and physically able to safely protect their gun and use it without unnecessary risk to others if they must fire it.

3) a few classes and much practice in tactics and knowing when not to pull a gun, and when to use a gun and how to use movement and concealment. The Police and others will likely see anyone with a gun at a shooting as a target. and being able to hit a hostile shooter is essential if you want to stop them. if you want to just pin them down till help arrives keep in mind help may not come fast, or know that you are on their side.

Actually, I do like Americans :-) All the ones I have met either here in Australia or on my travels were very decent people.

I wish I had some guns of my own to play with :-P I was considering getting a gun for target shooting, but there is a LOT of BS involved :-( I might look into it again in the future.

Australia has become a 'nanny' COUNTRY :-( Fireworks are illegal, it's tough to obtain weapons of just about any kind that are of any significant defensive value, plain packaging on cigarettes - the list goes on and on. It seems sensible adults are no longer trusted to make decisions for ourselves over here. I fucking hate it :'(

While I agree with much of what was said in this post I must say on point 2 that I think Requiring a person to be armed is just as wrong as saying that they can not be armed.

For a person to Carry a gun a few simple rules.1) The person must want to carry the Gun, and be willing to use it, in their defense or the defense of others.

2) The person must be of sound mind and physically able to safely protect their gun and use it without unnecessary risk to others if they must fire it.

3) a few classes and much practice in tactics and knowing when not to pull a gun, and when to use a gun and how to use movement and concealment. The Police and others will likely see anyone with a gun at a shooting as a target. and being able to hit a hostile shooter is essential if you want to stop them. if you want to just pin them down till help arrives keep in mind help may not come fast, or know that you are on their side.

Quoting: fight for truth 6302433

Very true, I can think of a lot of problems with what I have outlined, some of which you pointed out :-) They are all issues that could be worked out though.

Actually, I do like Americans :-) All the ones I have met either here in Australia or on my travels were very decent people.

I wish I had some guns of my own to play with :-P I was considering getting a gun for target shooting, but there is a LOT of BS involved :-( I might look into it again in the future.

Australia has become a 'nanny' COUNTRY :-( Fireworks are illegal, it's tough to obtain weapons of just about any kind that are of any significant defensive value, plain packaging on cigarettes - the list goes on and on. It seems sensible adults are no longer trusted to make decisions for ourselves over here. I fucking hate it :'(

Quoting: Anonymous Coward 2219053

interesting, every australian i have ever had contact with on here claim australians hate americans, but then i guess there is always an odd one.

A Jewish mother dreams that her son will grow up to be a doctor or, if retarded, a lawyer." --Jackie Mason

" I'm Jewish. I don't work out. If God had wanted us to bend over, He would have put diamonds on the floor." -- Joan Rivers

So basically everyone (adult) needs a gun in America to protect against the sheer number of nutters/psychopaths with access to guns?

What a lovely country...

Quoting: Anonymous Coward 25007705

Not necessarily. Nutters and criminals without guns are very dangerous too. I can think of so many home invasions here that could have been stopped before the poor old bugger got bashed, if the home owner had a gun and knew how to use it. Port Arthur - if only a couple of people were packing, Mr. Bryant would no doubt have been blown away pretty quickly.

I know it seems crazy, but guns in the hands of the right people makes for a safer society - at least for the law abiding.

It's easy for people that have never been touched by serious crime to say no one should have a gun. I am one of these lucky people, but I can still see the value in owning a gun. Someone made an excellent comment in another thread along the lines of "It's better to have a gun and never need to use it, than not to have a gun when you really need it".

Having never visited the U.S.A., I'm not qualified to make a judgement on the whole country and every person living there. I do know enough about it to know that there are PLENTY of towns & cities etc there, that have very low crime rates and are good places to live. I'm pretty sure that the vast majority of Americans are good people too, just like most countries.

Actually, I do like Americans :-) All the ones I have met either here in Australia or on my travels were very decent people.

I wish I had some guns of my own to play with :-P I was considering getting a gun for target shooting, but there is a LOT of BS involved :-( I might look into it again in the future.

Australia has become a 'nanny' COUNTRY :-( Fireworks are illegal, it's tough to obtain weapons of just about any kind that are of any significant defensive value, plain packaging on cigarettes - the list goes on and on. It seems sensible adults are no longer trusted to make decisions for ourselves over here. I fucking hate it :'(

Quoting: Anonymous Coward 2219053

interesting, every australian i have ever had contact with on here claim australians hate americans, but then i guess there is always an odd one.

Quoting: davvi

From what I have seen, most Aussies on here seem to only be here to wind people up - i.e., trolls. I doubt a few trolls know how tens of millions of Australians feel about Americans. I would also like to know if they have ever even met any Americans. A bad experience with one or two doesn't count. Same goes for us :-)

There is an abundance of decent people over here, as there would be over there. Unfortunately, as with both our countries, the idiots make the most noise - these people should not be seen as ambassadors :-S

It's a shame that many don't behave on the net as they wouldin person (with some people, I would hope that this is the case!). I tend to be the same online as off, including the odd comment for lulz :-D

You have made cogent points, but the omitted one that needs comprehension is these things and events are not accidental nor incidental to guns, they are about getting people persuaded to give up their guns. The disarming of America is an absolute target end game to effect and this is the primary method being implemented to do just that.

An excellent example of responsible gun ownership - Switzerland! The Swiss are very conservative sensible people. You could hardly accuse the Swiss of being 'gun happy' or idiots. Look at the crime stats too, especially that for home invasions. From memory, they have a gun in every home by law? Someone correct me on this if I'm wrong :-)

You are absolutely right OP. People who are not prepared to defend themselves are sitting ducks. Governments that purposefully disarm even those who are willing to defend themselves and others make everyone more vulnerable and less safe.

Just one person could have stopped that whole situation from happening and saved all those little kids lives if only someone at the entrance to the school had been armed.

"God forbid we should ever be 20 years without such a rebellion. The people cannot be all, & always, well informed... If they remain quiet under such misconceptions it is a lethargy, the forerunner of death to the public liberty... Let them take arms... What signify a few lives lost in a century or two? The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots & tyrants. " - Thomas Jefferson in 1787

You have made cogent points, but the omitted one that needs comprehension is these things and events are not accidental nor incidental to guns, they are about getting people persuaded to give up their guns. The disarming of America is an absolute target end game to effect and this is the primary method being implemented to do just that.

This is a tool.

Quoting: Mickeyblue 9806228

I'm aware of all kinds of alternative explanations/theories regarding many incidents, historical and current. I like to read/view/listen to as many sources as possible, rather than just the MSM, or just 'alternative' sources of information. I would hope that certain elements wouldn't resort to killing kids to push an agenda, but with the kinds of people we have in society and in positions of power ANYTHING is possible :-(

You are absolutely right OP. People who are not prepared to defend themselves are sitting ducks. Governments that purposefully disarm even those who are willing to defend themselves and others make everyone more vulnerable and less safe.

Just one person could have stopped that whole situation from happening and saved all those little kids lives if only someone at the entrance to the school had been armed.

Quoting: Resister

Exactly! The principal of the school sounded like a lioness of a woman in terms of bravery and action. If she wasn't against CCW and was armed, I bet she would have been skilled enough (from diligent training) to put one right between the eyes of that murdering SOB. All the poor woman could do was throw herself at the killer and try to disarm him - incredibly brave and heroic, but sad that she died too :-( You never know, she may have saved a couple of lives if she wrestled with him for a few seconds, enabling people to hide, get away etc.

Actually, I do like Americans :-) All the ones I have met either here in Australia or on my travels were very decent people.

I wish I had some guns of my own to play with :-P I was considering getting a gun for target shooting, but there is a LOT of BS involved :-( I might look into it again in the future.

Australia has become a 'nanny' COUNTRY :-( Fireworks are illegal, it's tough to obtain weapons of just about any kind that are of any significant defensive value, plain packaging on cigarettes - the list goes on and on. It seems sensible adults are no longer trusted to make decisions for ourselves over here. I fucking hate it :'(

Quoting: Anonymous Coward 2219053

interesting, every australian i have ever had contact with on here claim australians hate americans, but then i guess there is always an odd one.

Quoting: davvi

From what I have seen, most Aussies on here seem to only be here to wind people up - i.e., trolls. I doubt a few trolls know how tens of millions of Australians feel about Americans. I would also like to know if they have ever even met any Americans. A bad experience with one or two doesn't count. Same goes for us :-)

There is an abundance of decent people over here, as there would be over there. Unfortunately, as with both our countries, the idiots make the most noise - these people should not be seen as ambassadors :-S

It's a shame that many don't behave on the net as they wouldin person (with some people, I would hope that this is the case!). I tend to be the same online as off, including the odd comment for lulz :-D

Quoting: Anonymous Coward 2219053

meh, you are too close to the british, europeans and canadians with their whining and lecturing americans about everything we do for me to ever like you.

A Jewish mother dreams that her son will grow up to be a doctor or, if retarded, a lawyer." --Jackie Mason

" I'm Jewish. I don't work out. If God had wanted us to bend over, He would have put diamonds on the floor." -- Joan Rivers

Actually, I do like Americans :-) All the ones I have met either here in Australia or on my travels were very decent people.

I wish I had some guns of my own to play with :-P I was considering getting a gun for target shooting, but there is a LOT of BS involved :-( I might look into it again in the future.

Australia has become a 'nanny' COUNTRY :-( Fireworks are illegal, it's tough to obtain weapons of just about any kind that are of any significant defensive value, plain packaging on cigarettes - the list goes on and on. It seems sensible adults are no longer trusted to make decisions for ourselves over here. I fucking hate it :'(

Quoting: Anonymous Coward 2219053

interesting, every australian i have ever had contact with on here claim australians hate americans, but then i guess there is always an odd one.

Quoting: davvi

From what I have seen, most Aussies on here seem to only be here to wind people up - i.e., trolls. I doubt a few trolls know how tens of millions of Australians feel about Americans. I would also like to know if they have ever even met any Americans. A bad experience with one or two doesn't count. Same goes for us :-)

There is an abundance of decent people over here, as there would be over there. Unfortunately, as with both our countries, the idiots make the most noise - these people should not be seen as ambassadors :-S

It's a shame that many don't behave on the net as they wouldin person (with some people, I would hope that this is the case!). I tend to be the same online as off, including the odd comment for lulz :-D

Quoting: Anonymous Coward 2219053

meh, you are too close to the british, europeans and canadians with their whining and lecturing americans about everything we do for me to ever like you.

Quoting: davvi

What an odd response. That's some ego you have there. What makes you think I give a damn about what YOU or anyone on here thinks about me? I'm not here to make friends or ingratiate myself with certain segments on GLP - God help me if I was! Judging by many posts here, GLP is only marginally better than Stormfront or 4Chan.

Your ability to write off hundreds of millions of complete strangers shows how staggeringly ignorant you are. Perhaps you should go and play with your toys and leave the grown-ups to talk ;-) You are the type of person that gives Republicans a bad name and causes people to come up with hilarious zingers such as "Amerilard". Unlike you, I'm intelligent enough to realise that there are good Republicans and bad Republicans, good Democrats and bad Democrats and everything in between. Are you are robot, only able to think in binary?

Besides, judging from the graphic in your sig, you could be one of those hook-nosed, deceitful, shifty, money-grubbing, spawn-of-Satan people. Or at least a lover of them. In which case I wouldn't want you to like me or be a 'friend' of mine.