It's kind of irrelevant whether you do damage or not. With the way CnD is right now (and including the 5.3 nerfs) and in RBGs, you can stun 3 healers for 4 seconds each, then silence them all for another 4 seconds each before your dance runs out. That's plenty of time for however many DPS you have to kill the FC. This change doesn't actually stop that from potentially happening, but it makes that situation impossible for you if the other team spreads out far enough. Which should really be the goal: allowing the other team to counter your abilities.

Just no... There is not enough energy in given amount of time to do that. Also with GCD, the first stun would break as u stun the last, you would also have to say if u target all these targets in a 20 yd range successfully in given amount of time, also to say u r not rooted,cc ed, or stunned during switching targets. ALSO it would be more effective to maybe CC the closest healer, redirect combo pts to FC, CC FC, smoke and use rest of your shadowdance to burst.
In conclusion, your dreamed situation is impossible and impracticable. That is also a lot of work to do an aoe CC effect while other classes could fear bomb or so?
Personally I like the talent for its flavor, it adds a good sense of playstyle, gives you options and fun ways of using it. There is a balance of CC and dps here, You can't max both, you either use it for a dps push or trade off some dps for each extra cc u do.
I hope more flavorful talents are added to other tiers because I actually find my self changing talents a lot now in situations to my liking.

He could just CoS while Shadow Dancing, and the aoegrip to vortex does atleast somewhat coordination between the two of them, not just being a rogue spamming his stuns all over the place.

Rogues needed a nerf, and this is a decent one. You wont become shit again, your burst is still as good. You just lose some of your ranged control, and guess what - you rolled a melee class, not a ranged one.
My guess is that the only ones who will cry about this nerf, is the FotM rollers. Now go on monk or something like that, heard they will be strong next patch.

He could just CoS while Shadow Dancing, and the aoegrip to vortex does atleast somewhat coordination between the two of them, not just being a rogue spamming his stuns all over the place.

Rogues needed a nerf, and this is a decent one. You wont become shit again, your burst is still as good. You just lose some of your ranged control, and guess what - you rolled a melee class, not a ranged one.
My guess is that the only ones who will cry about this nerf, is the FotM rollers. Now go on monk or something like that, heard they will be strong next patch.

It is really fucking stupid to CoS with every dance.. you will just make yourself a killtarget. And you will die because this class is the absolute weakest when under control.

He could just CoS while Shadow Dancing, and the aoegrip to vortex does atleast somewhat coordination between the two of them, not just being a rogue spamming his stuns all over the place.

Rogues needed a nerf, and this is a decent one. You wont become shit again, your burst is still as good. You just lose some of your ranged control, and guess what - you rolled a melee class, not a ranged one.
My guess is that the only ones who will cry about this nerf, is the FotM rollers. Now go on monk or something like that, heard they will be strong next patch.

aoe grip+vrotex is about as much coordination as me calling smoke before team dps down the target =almost nothing.
CoS doesnt do anything to meele classes. Warr, rogue, hunter,monk can counter through CoS, after CoS a druid setting feary fire is a death sentence as you cant run

That aside i'd rather give up dps than mobility. Waddling arround getting kited is just not fun. Already waddled in bc enough for a lifetime.

aoe grip+vrotex is about as much coordination as me calling smoke before team dps down the target =almost nothing.
CoS doesnt do anything to meele classes. Warr, rogue, hunter,monk can counter through CoS, after CoS a druid setting feary fire is a death sentence as you cant run

That aside i'd rather give up dps than mobility. Waddling arround getting kited is just not fun. Already waddled in bc enough for a lifetime.

1. My name is spelt "God" not "Loucious-sama".
2. I'm not a man, because man is inherently flawed. I am in fact a being so far beyond your comprehension that archaic constraints like flesh, blood, time and consequently, gender, have no meaning to me.

I can't figure out why they don't just do what they did with Sap and other abilities , the duration is longer vs mobs and is shorter vs players, why can't they do this with damaging abilities? as someone who doesn't PVP I don't see 10 yards as being a big deal with C&D, maybe it is, when I'm not doing dungeons or any type of raids I actually use Shuriken Toss for dailies and such and think its great how it is currently, I don't see very many people saying "this rogue is 100-0'ing mobs with just Shuriken Toss" its always "rogues spamming ST 100-0 me in 4 seconds, 70% resil, np" and the unrelated "rogues kill me in a subterfuge"

I saw someone mention this in some thread on the WoW forums, why not have Shuriken Toss do the same damage and cost the same amount of energy as it does now when used against NPC's but when used against players it does the new damage and cost 40 energy

Holinka tweeted they are talking about nerfing c&d even more sounds like it just needs full redesign because they will likely put a icd on it and that will be the death of the talent.

Seriously an ICD on it now? It's just ludicrous what they're doing to the rogue talent tree since the release of MoP.

Their argument that the new talent tree would give more viable choices is BS. If they add and ICD to the range nerf everyone will go back to ShS which is apparently what they want and the 2 new talents introduced in MoP will go back to be useless or at best situational.

Last edited by Gnu; 2013-04-26 at 07:35 AM.

"I win because I'm a ninja. I kill everybody else because they suck ass. To even play a rogue takes an enormous amount of skill beyond what noobs like you could even imagine." Kishkumen, World of Roguecraft 2.

what's that, a melee class has to be closer to the target to actually hit with their abilities? madness... if I was GC i'd make everything melee range... hitting from the back of the yard when you are supposed to be melee shouldn't happen...

Casters should have to CAST their spells. Not spam them instantly like they do know. When did casters become ranged melee with 100% armor penetration?
They need to remove ALL instant casts.

See what i did there?

---------- Post added 2013-04-26 at 08:26 AM ----------

Wow! If they mess with this anymore such as adding an ICD or what not they will really mess up subtlety rogues. Shadow dance and cloak and dagger are practically made for each other.

While the potential exists to discuss whether or not the talent C&D holds up after the nerf, or if the nerf is large enough (or unwarranted) exists, this thread has become, by it's nature, filled with borderline-spam comments, and finding interesting posts takes a lot of work. If you'd like to discuss the ramifications of this change, I'd suggest doing it in a new thread with a specific tonality that indicates serious discussion; the exact ramifications, with situations included, rather than poster after poster adding sweeping generalizations based on their opinions.