Hi Daniel and Tim,
I agree with Tim that hadQuoteFrom changes the meaning.
Luc
On 19/04/12 21:13, Timothy Lebo wrote:
>
> On Apr 19, 2012, at 3:31 PM, Daniel Garijo wrote:
>
>> Hi Luc,
>> hmmm and what about my other suggestion, "hadQuoteFrom" ?
>>
>
> Daniel,
>
> I'm not in favor of changing it.
>
> I think your suggestion of hadQuoteFrom changes the meaning of the
> definition, where the quote is not THE thing taken from the original
> source, but CONTAINS something taken from the original source (and
> thus a subsequent derivation).
>
> e.g.
>
> :composite_tweet
> a :Tweet;
> prov:value "I have always loved the #blah. Like @Abe said, "Four
> score and seven years ago";
> daniel:hadQuoteFrom
> <http://dbpedia.org/resource/Gettysburg_Address>; # This is not the
> meaning of the current definition "the repeat of (some or all of) an
> entity.."
> prov:wasAttributedTo twitter:timrdf,
> <http://dbpedia.org/resource/Abraham_Lincoln>;
> prov:qualifiedAttribution [
> a prov:Attribution;
> prov:agent <http://dbpedia.org/resource/Abraham_Lincoln>;
> prov:hadRole "contributor", "quoted";
> ]
> prov:qualifiedAttribution [
> a prov:Attribution;
> prov:agent twitter:timrdf;
> prov:hadRole "composer", "quoter";
> ]
> prov:wasDerivedFrom :actual_phrase; ## This derivation shows the
> distinction between the meaning of what you propose and how it is
> currently defined.
> ]
>
> is NOT the same as
>
> :actual_phrase
> a :Phrase;
> prov:value "Four score and seven years ago";
> prov:wasQuotedFrom <http://dbpedia.org/resource/Gettysburg_Address>;
> prov:wasAttributedTo twitter:timrdf;
> .
>
> <http://dbpedia.org/resource/Gettysburg_Address>
> a frbr:Work;
> prov:wasAttributedTo <http://dbpedia.org/resource/Abraham_Lincoln>;
> .
>
> <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gettysburg_Address>
> a foaf:Document;
> prov:specializationOf <http://dbpedia.org/resource/Gettysburg_Address>;
> .
>
>
> -Tim
>
>
>
>
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Daniel
>>
>> 2012/4/19 Luc Moreau <L.Moreau@ecs.soton.ac.uk
>> <mailto:L.Moreau@ecs.soton.ac.uk>>
>>
>> Daniel,
>> We started with wasQuoteOf
>> http://www.w3.org/TR/2011/WD-prov-dm-20111018/#quotation
>> But moved away because not clear.
>>
>> Luc
>>
>>
>> Professor Luc Moreau
>> Electronics and Computer Science
>> University of Southampton
>> Southampton SO17 1BJ
>> United Kingdom
>>
>> On 19 Apr 2012, at 17:39, "Daniel Garijo"
>> <dgarijo@delicias.dia.fi.upm.es
>> <mailto:dgarijo@delicias.dia.fi.upm.es>> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi Luc,
>>> the definition on DM is very clear to me.
>>>
>>> What makes me feel a bit unconfortable is that while I can
>>> understand what is on the domain
>>> and what is on the range on each of the other properties, for
>>> this one I think it is a bit confusing.
>>> (When I say domain and range, I refer to what is being quoted
>>> (original) and what is the quote).
>>>
>>> I have asked 3 colleagues in my lab to tell me what did they
>>> think they were the range and the domain
>>> of the property with an example, (without looking at the
>>> definition of the DM). One of them agreed with the DM,
>>> another one guessed wrong and the last one encouraged me to
>>> change the naming because "it made
>>> no much sense" to him.
>>>
>>> I'm not sure if users that assert scruffy provenance will come
>>> to the DM to read all the definitions,
>>> and that is why to make sure this kind of things are very clear
>>> for everyone. Thus, I don't propose
>>> to change the definitions, I just suggest to rename
>>> "wasQuotedFrom" to either:
>>> "wasQuoteOf" or "hadQuoteFrom".
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>> Daniel
>>>
>>> 2012/4/19 Luc Moreau <L.Moreau@ecs.soton.ac.uk
>>> <mailto:L.Moreau@ecs.soton.ac.uk>>
>>>
>>> Hi Daniel,
>>>
>>> This is the current definition of quotation. Is there still
>>> a concern with it?
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>> Luc
>>>
>>> 4.3.3 Quotation
>>>
>>> A quotation is the repeat of (some or all of) an entity,
>>> such as text or image, by someone other than its original
>>> author.
>>>
>>> Quotation is a particular case of derivation in which entity
>>> e2 is derived from an original entity e1 by copying, or
>>> "quoting", some or all of it. A quotation relation, written
>>> wasQuotedFrom(id,e2,e1,ag2,ag1,attrs) in PROV-N, has:
>>>
>>> id: an optional identifier for the relation;
>>> quote: an identifier (e2) for the entity that represents the
>>> quote (the partial copy);
>>> original: an identifier (e1) for the original entity being
>>> quoted;
>>> quoterAgent: an optional identifier (ag2) for the agent who
>>> performs the quote;
>>> originalAgent: an optional identifier (ag1) for the agent to
>>> whom the original entity is attributed;
>>> attributes: an optional set (attrs) of attribute-value pairs
>>> representing additional information about this relation.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 04/19/2012 11:28 AM, Provenance Working Group Issue
>>> Tracker wrote:
>>>
>>> PROV-ISSUE-352 (rename-WasQuotedFrom): A better name for
>>> wasQuotedFrom [prov-dm]
>>>
>>> http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/track/issues/352
>>>
>>> Raised by: Daniel Garijo
>>> On product: prov-dm
>>>
>>> Currently, the DM says:
>>> A quotation record, written
>>> wasQuotedFrom(e2,e1,ag2,ag1,attrs) in PROV-ASN, contains:
>>> quote: an identifier e2, identifying an entity
>>> record that represents the quote;
>>> quoted: an identifier e1, identifying an entity
>>> record representing what is being quoted;
>>> ...
>>>
>>> However, if we say that e2 wasQuotedFrom e1 it may look
>>> like entity e1 is the one quoting e2 (since we are
>>> saying that e2 was quoted).
>>>
>>> I think it would be more clear if we rename the property
>>> with e2 wasQuoteOf e1, or e2 hadQuoteFrom e1.
>>>
>>> Thoughts?
>>> Thanks,
>>> Daniel
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Professor Luc Moreau
>>> Electronics and Computer Science tel: +44 23 8059 4487
>>> <tel:%2B44%2023%208059%204487>
>>> University of Southampton fax: +44 23 8059 2865
>>> <tel:%2B44%2023%208059%202865>
>>> Southampton SO17 1BJ email:
>>> l.moreau@ecs.soton.ac.uk <mailto:l.moreau@ecs.soton.ac.uk>
>>> United Kingdom http://www.ecs.soton.ac.uk/~lavm
>>> <http://www.ecs.soton.ac.uk/%7Elavm>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>