I know for a fact that some BTAC has been delivered in and around the city but I doubt you'll see much, if any, on the shelves this year. Allocations are lower than in the past and most stores that get it will probably hold it for their better customers without it ever hitting the shelves. I also know some pretty serious bars that received none this year. They're hoping that means they'll get more Pappy than they typically get.

=R=

I am not interested in how I would evaluate the Springbank in a blind tasting. Every spirit has its story, and I include it in my evaluation, just as I do with human beings. --Thad Vogler

I've given up on the hunt, because finding it is less of a hassle than securing and buying it. Was down in Louisville this past weekend, and it's nuts how much even relatively easy to get stuff like Stagg Jr. often disappears quickly. In the meantime, I'm allocated my time and resources toward anything with a clear age statement and sourcing, which basically means ... Elijah Craig 12? Is that the last easy to find older bourbon standing? The fact that they moved the number to the back indicates to me that Elijah Craig 12 as we know it will not be around for long. Either that or they will pump up the price to premium.

But yeah, Pappy: PIA a few years ago, can only imagine what it's like now. But not going to miss the forest for the trees, especially as the forest gets decimated.

FWIW, the last couple of years the Old Rip 10 has been great. Lot B is typically the most underwhelming of the bunch, along with the 23, which is more a trophy than anything else at this point, in my opinion, especially now that the liquid inside is all BT. A friend of mine considers the rye the best of the whole bunch. Another data point: while I could have sworn the MSRP price has remained the same, I know Binny's jacked up the prices a bit; a manager told me the 23 at least got bumped from $250 to $300. But at or close to MSRP most of them are actually pretty fairly priced, all things considered. As the other distillers devise new ways to shake down drinkers and collectors - such as Elijah Craig 18 being reintroduced at almost three times the price - finding a 15-year old bourbon for less than $100 is not bad, relatively speaking.

The 2015 release is definitely in town and unlikely to even hit the shelves at most retail locations. I'm hearing from pretty reliable sources that a lot of places are again simply contacting their most loyal customers and giving them the right of first refusal. I'm guessing that'll pretty much deplete the extremely limited supply before it ever becomes available for walk-in customers.

IMO the 10, 12 and 15 are the best of them, with the 12 being the most consistent from year to year. The 20 has never wowed me (especially for the price) and I find the current incarnation of the 23 not nearly as nuanced or complex as what it used to be when it was produced at Stitzel Weller -- an entirely different juice, really. The rye seems to vary the most from year to year.

=R=

I am not interested in how I would evaluate the Springbank in a blind tasting. Every spirit has its story, and I include it in my evaluation, just as I do with human beings. --Thad Vogler

Found a bottle of the 10 at the Famous, err Cardinal on Roosevelt near Des Plaines in RF and that was the last that I had. It was sitting on the display shelf for anyone to purchase when I walked in, though I had been told to expect its arrival on Wednesday of last week.

I was told that the "flagship" store on Madison on RF was expecting their shipment last Friday - but only 10 and 12. I didn't make it over. I snagged a bottle of 10 from the same store last year and enjoyed it immensely - though there is still about 3 oz left. And didn't feel like trying to get myself there just on a chance at the 12. I'd rather keep my 10.

FWIW, the proprietors of these stores have always been pretty honest about the disbursement of these rarities. I think if you really want to get one these bottles you have to make nice with your local, non-Binny's shops who will be good for a couple of bottles.

bobbywal wrote:FWIW, the proprietors of these stores have always been pretty honest about the disbursement of these rarities. I think if you really want to get one these bottles you have to make nice with your local, non-Binny's shops who will be good for a couple of bottles.

When I was recently in Flushing, NY a local shop there had a bottle of 15-year VW on the shelf (behind the counter) for a mere $799.

I'm sure it'll sell at some point but that was not exactly a friendly price.

=R=

I am not interested in how I would evaluate the Springbank in a blind tasting. Every spirit has its story, and I include it in my evaluation, just as I do with human beings. --Thad Vogler

bobbywal wrote:FWIW, the proprietors of these stores have always been pretty honest about the disbursement of these rarities. I think if you really want to get one these bottles you have to make nice with your local, non-Binny's shops who will be good for a couple of bottles.

When I was recently in Flushing, NY a local shop there had a bottle of 15-year VW on the shelf (behind the counter) for a mere $799.

I'm sure it'll sell at some point but that was not exactly a friendly price.

=R=

I should have clarified, the bottle of the 10-yr was $100. Which was the same as what I paid last year. More than MSRP... but I'll take it at that price.

I often look for hard to find bourbons in small town liquor stores when I travel so when I was in Cambria CA last week I stopped into a local store. They had 15 year Pappy Van Winkle for $899 a bottle and the 12 year old for $499, that's either insanity, good marketing or both.

For what we choose is what we are. He should not miss this second opportunity to re-create himself with food. Jim Crace "The Devil's Larder"

mbh wrote:I often look for hard to find bourbons in small town liquor stores when I travel so when I was in Cambria CA last week I stopped into a local store. They had 15 year Pappy Van Winkle for $899 a bottle and the 12 year old for $499, that's either insanity, good marketing or both.

Normally I'd just ask if the person labeling the stock had the decimal misplaced. If they actually get buyers at those prices the mailing list of those people is pure gold.

mbh wrote:I often look for hard to find bourbons in small town liquor stores when I travel so when I was in Cambria CA last week I stopped into a local store. They had 15 year Pappy Van Winkle for $899 a bottle and the 12 year old for $499, that's either insanity, good marketing or both.

Normally I'd just ask if the person labeling the stock had the decimal misplaced. If they actually get buyers at those prices the mailing list of those people is pure gold.

I saw something similar to this when I was browsing in Queens a few years ago - a few bottles from the BTAC for $500+ each. Some places just go for the jugular, figuring that someone will want it bad enough. I think, though, that retailers who do this with official allotments end up getting cut off completely if they get caught. There are some pretty strict pricing guidelines to which they must adhere, iirc.

=R=

I am not interested in how I would evaluate the Springbank in a blind tasting. Every spirit has its story, and I include it in my evaluation, just as I do with human beings. --Thad Vogler

mbh wrote:I often look for hard to find bourbons in small town liquor stores when I travel so when I was in Cambria CA last week I stopped into a local store. They had 15 year Pappy Van Winkle for $899 a bottle and the 12 year old for $499, that's either insanity, good marketing or both.

Good marketing along with making it rare. They take the bourbon from the barrels that didn't make the cut for Pappy and sell it under the "Weller" brand, you can get that for a reasonable price and it's almost as good.

mbh wrote:I often look for hard to find bourbons in small town liquor stores when I travel so when I was in Cambria CA last week I stopped into a local store. They had 15 year Pappy Van Winkle for $899 a bottle and the 12 year old for $499, that's either insanity, good marketing or both.

Good marketing along with making it rare. They take the bourbon from the barrels that didn't make the cut for Pappy and sell it under the "Weller" brand, you can get that for a reasonable price and it's almost as good.

This is (now) Buffalo Trace juice from which Van Winkle chooses select barrels for their labels. The process is continuous and quite involved from the 10-year all the way up through the 23. I've heard Julian describe the process and have also read some interviews in which he describes it. Some of the unchosen stock ends up being bottled as Weller. Some of it makes it into other BT products.

I remember hearing Julian (at some event) lament the fact that they cannot put out any more than they do. He said he wished they could and that they were increasing output slightly. From what I remember him saying, I don't think they do any marketing at all. It's reached legendary status in a very organic way but there is also some marketplace hype that drives demand. It's a very recognizable name so some brand-focused fanatics (some, who don't do their homework) go after it in a way that doesn't always line up with reality. But hey, if the money's flying around out there, someone will find a way to capture it. The prices mbh describes above are not indicative of anything other than this. It's opportunism, pure and simple. Standard retail pricing for the VW products is nowhere near those levels, though availability at that level is extremely limited.

In any case, it's certainly fine whiskey but there are some other very fine ones out there to be had. You just have to be open to tasting a lot of things, understand your own palate (because in the end, no one else's matters) and be ready to buy when you find something you know you like. The nice thing about bourbon is that so many decent ones are affordable and unlike other potables, they are not perishable and tend to store very well.

=R=

I am not interested in how I would evaluate the Springbank in a blind tasting. Every spirit has its story, and I include it in my evaluation, just as I do with human beings. --Thad Vogler

I often look for hard to find bourbons in small town liquor stores when I travel so when I was in Cambria CA last week I stopped into a local store. They had 15 year Pappy Van Winkle for $899 a bottle and the 12 year old for $499, that's either insanity, good marketing or both.

There's a small liquor store in south-west Naperville, may or may not be near the Sec. of State/DMV place that I wandered into around the holidays looking for some specialty beers - BCBS, Dino S'mores. I couldn't help but notice a full complement of PVW products high above the checkout counter. Having gotten none this year, I inquired about the price. He said he was selling them to the highest bidder. I asked what the current bid was for the 15-year. His reply? "No, no, no. It doesn't work like that. Why don't you tell me what you would pay for it and I tell you if that is high enough." He just chuckled at my $69 reply - which I offered with a knowing smile. He then attempted to justify this approach, more power to him, I guess...

champs2005 wrote:That has to be illegal. Its not an auction or craigslist sale. Hes running a retail store.

Also if his distributor found out about that he would probably be dropped from getting it ever again.

I was thinking the same thing, it's one thing to mark it up, but can he actually auction it off? I would think his business license would preclude it.

ronnie_suburban wrote:This is (now) Buffalo Trace juice from which Van Winkle chooses select barrels for their labels. The process is continuous and quite involved from the 10-year all the way up through the 23. I've heard Julian describe the process and have also read some interviews in which he describes it. Some of the unchosen stock ends up being bottled as Weller. Some of it makes it into other BT products.

I remember hearing Julian (at some event) lament the fact that they cannot put out any more than they do. He said he wished they could and that they were increasing output slightly. From what I remember him saying, I don't think they do any marketing at all. It's reached legendary status in a very organic way but there is also some marketplace hype that drives demand. It's a very recognizable name so some brand-focused fanatics (some, who don't do their homework) go after it in a way that doesn't always line up with reality. But hey, if the money's flying around out there, someone will find a way to capture it. The prices mbh describes above are not indicative of anything other than this. It's opportunism, pure and simple. Standard retail pricing for the VW products is nowhere near those levels, though availability at that level is extremely limited.

Thanks for the background, I really like Weller and Buffalo Trace. I'll enjoy my current Pappy (15 year and 12 year bought at normal price) I think I won't be purchasing more any time soon.

For what we choose is what we are. He should not miss this second opportunity to re-create himself with food. Jim Crace "The Devil's Larder"

Weller 12 sneaks into stores (here) once in a while, but I can't think of the last time I saw it anywhere. Same for lots of bourbons lately, especially as age statements drop like flies. But I do know that, ironically, some relatively easy to find bourbons (here) are often really hard to find in Kentucky. Apparently people go down there in search of the stuff everyone writes about, can't find it, then settles for the next best thing.

Trying to think what affordable age statement bourbons still line the shelves. McKenna 10?