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Don't they only need five seasons? Seems like they'd get the last one to finish the story, even if they have to cut some corners...

They might, depending on how strong the critical praise is for the fourth season (and whether it shows some strong legs in on-demand and Netflix watches). Other shows have gotten at least four seasons because of critical praise despite mediocre ratings, such as Community and Crazy Ex-Girlfriend.

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I know this is super-nit picky but I have to say the thing that most bothered me throughout the season was Chidi’s American accent. Like it appears his nationality is so inconsequential that it should have never really been brought up in the first place.

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It was boring and repetitive and I really don’t feel the whole the earth is a terrible placeand people are terrible for buying that particular tomato.

Isn't that the whole point though? That the whole earth is not a terrible place and just buying a particular tomato shouldn't make someone bad; that the method of calculating the absolute moral value of an act is outdated and unfair due to how interconnected the world has become which means that simple everyday acts now have a whole host of far-reaching and unintended negative consequences (tomato grown in pesticide rich farmland, tomato farmed by underpaid labour force, tomato shipped using fuel inefficient vehicles) which end up outweighing any positives of that act.

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Isn't that the whole point though? That the whole earth is not a terrible place and just buying a particular tomato shouldn't make someone bad; that the method of calculating the absolute moral value of an act is outdated and unfair due to how interconnected the world has become which means that simple everyday acts now have a whole host of far-reaching and unintended negative consequences (tomato grown in pesticide rich farmland, tomato farmed by underpaid labour force, tomato shipped using fuel inefficient vehicles) which end up outweighing any positives of that act.

I thought it was, and I was expecting this episode to start showing that. But the judge returned saying the earth is a terrible messed up place with no understanding of its good parts. That was surprising and I’m still unsure where they are going with it. And I found it a little disappointing that their solution to examine how good people are is putting them in a simplified lab environment in a - who would have guessed- fake neighborhood, as if that would solve the complexity of the real world. I mean a huge part of science remains theoretical for that very reason, so many fields of social science (and philosophy too?) have all these models and semi-functional methods because they were created through taking away variables. Look at Chidi, sure if you take away half the variables, he will make good decisions easier, but in real life you can’t take away half the variables. Sure, you can exclude them from your evaluation, and more people will get into the good place, but it doesn’t ultimately make the earth as a whole a “better place”.

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Is the goal to make earth a better place though? It seems to me the focus has only ever been on the quality of an after life. So the goal is to make it possible to get into the good place but earth can keep on being shit. Maybe the final arc will be about making earth better?

Also, we need to see the last person who got into the good place at some point. They must be sort of a celebrity as the last good person

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I thought it was, and I was expecting this episode to start showing that. But the judge returned saying the earth is a terrible messed up place with no understanding of its good parts. That was surprising and I’m still unsure where they are going with it.

I didn't put any stock into what the judge had to say about earth. Afterall, the judge learns as little as possible about life on earth in order to remain impartial so when she goes to earth and encounters the complexities of life she ends up concluding that earth is a shithole due to her own ignorance.

1 hour ago, RhaenysBee said:

And I found it a little disappointing that their solution to examine how good people are is putting them in a simplified lab environment in a - who would have guessed- fake neighborhood, as if that would solve the complexity of the real world. I mean a huge part of science remains theoretical for that very reason, so many fields of social science (and philosophy too?) have all these models and semi-functional methods because they were created through taking away variables. Look at Chidi, sure if you take away half the variables, he will make good decisions easier, but in real life you can’t take away half the variables. Sure, you can exclude them from your evaluation, and more people will get into the good place, but it doesn’t ultimately make the earth as a whole a “better place”.

I'm with you on this. The entire point was that the method of calculating the moral value of an act is completely flawed due to life on earth becoming more complex and interconnected where even good acts with good intentions (or innocuous acts like buying a tomato) has so many unintended negative consequences that it becomes impossible for anyone to get into the good place. I don't see how these complexities can possibly be replicated in a totally controlled environment - going out for yoghurt in the 'neighbourhood' simply would not come with the host of unintended negative consequences that it would on earth.

We've just gone in a big circle here and I don't see how repeating the experiment with a different set of people in a controlled environment actually proves anything since the first couple of episodes of this season showed us that it is far easier to improve in the neighbourhood than it is on earth - in fact our four humans would not have improved at all if not for Michael and Janet's repeated interventions/cheating.

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I didn't put any stock into what the judge had to say about earth. Afterall, the judge learns as little as possible about life on earth in order to remain impartial so when she goes to earth and encounters the complexities of life she ends up concluding that earth is a shithole due to her own ignorance.

I'm with you on this. The entire point was that the method of calculating the moral value of an act is completely flawed due to life on earth becoming more complex and interconnected where even good acts with good intentions (or innocuous acts like buying a tomato) has so many unintended negative consequences that it becomes impossible for anyone to get into the good place. I don't see how these complexities can possibly be replicated in a totally controlled environment - going out for yoghurt in the 'neighbourhood' simply would not come with the host of unintended negative consequences that it would on earth.

We've just gone in a big circle here and I don't see how repeating the experiment with a different set of people in a controlled environment actually proves anything since the first couple of episodes of this season showed us that it is far easier to improve in the neighbourhood than it is on earth - in fact our four humans would not have improved at all if not for Michael and Janet's repeated interventions/cheating.

I understand that the judge is trying to stay away from the earth, I just think it’s really exaggerated to say that someone who has no knowledge of the world and suddenly drops in Italy will only see how crappy the world is. I mean did the judge not smell flowers and eat pasta and view ancient architecture and see old married couples smiling at each other and birds drinking from fountains and all?

Yeah, that’s my issue with repetitiveness. We are going full circles without resolving anything. And maybe we introduce a couple more moral dilemmas just to make things even more impossible to resolve. And I still don’t get why we went from comedy to a moral philosophy cobweb in two seasons. I mean I know it’s jsut me but the more they try to draw dramatic conclusions about modern society’s issues, the less entertained I am.

Edited January 21 by RhaenysBee

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I don't see how these complexities can possibly be replicated in a totally controlled environment - going out for yoghurt in the 'neighbourhood' simply would not come with the host of unintended negative consequences that it would on earth.

That's the point; they want to see how people score without the unintended consequences.

7 hours ago, Consigliere said:

We've just gone in a big circle here and I don't see how repeating the experiment with a different set of people in a controlled environment actually proves anything

It's the scientific method - do you get the same outcome if you repeat an experiment? Or was the first one just a fluke?

My guess is the new four are the most awful people the demons could come up with while staying within the letter of the Judge's requirements, but will end up getting redeemed anyway.

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That's the point; they want to see how people score without the unintended consequences.

It's the scientific method - do you get the same outcome if you repeat an experiment? Or was the first one just a fluke?

My guess is the new four are the most awful people the demons could come up with while staying within the letter of the Judge's requirements, but will end up getting redeemed anyway.

The whole thing just feels completely pointless to me (hopefully it doesn't go on longer than the season finale). The fact that people can get better should be obvious otherwise the good place wouldn't exist and the season has made it clear that the reason why no-one has gotten into the good place in over 500 years isn't because the entire human race is bad but rather the method of calculating points has become outdated.

I also feel the experiment itself is flawed. IIRC, the judge said that Michael won't get the files about the new people in advance but he can then change the neighbourhood as he sees fit + there's our four humans there who are going to help the new group (at least that's what Eleanor says to Chidi). They are obviously going to try and manipulate the situation to go in their favour and Shawn will try to do the same. Doesn't seem very scientific to me.

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I understand that the judge is trying to stay away from the earth, I just think it’s really exaggerated﻿ to say that someone who has no knowledge of the world and suddenly drops in Italy will only see how crappy the world is. I mean did the judge not smell flowers and eat pasta and view ancient architecture and see old married couples smiling at each other and birds drinking from fountains and all?

It’s really easier for one to over-focus on the negatives in society than see society getting better. Especially when up until now the Judge has probably lived most of her existence in utter contentment, so the small pleasures human life offers, aren’t going to be as noticeable as the many hurdles she isn’t used to.

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Outside of the whole plot twists and everything else, I have to say over the last 2 episodes, that has been the only interesting aspects of the show. I am intrigued by where it is going and the twists are keeping me watching.

What isn't keeping me watching however is the romance. That just is not working right now.

It's getting a little irritating. Mostly because I don't think any of the characters have a lot of chemistry together, and never really have. They are all fantastic individually, I love them all, but there is a real lack of connection I find. Maybe its all the resets. So each romantic diversion where they take 5 minutes out to go discuss their love for each other, just doesn't connect for me. Especially Jason and Janet, which is just repeating itself over and over and never made a ton of sense in the first place.

Plus there are so many instance of characters acting in certain ways just to push the plot ahead or make it interesting. I kind of just go along with it. Michael having a breakdown at the end of the ep just came out of nowhere really, I guess you could try and justify it with other episodes, but in general his character is so wildly fluctuating.

However, I did laugh out loud more often in the last couple of episodes than for a while, so it has improved a bit.

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Pretty quiet finale for this show. A little bit of a reboot, the episode name drop near the end, and . . . who knows? I was half expecting them to time-skip for the finale, but they didn't.

I'm not sure how I feel about that. The romance subplots weren't ever really that interesting, except as a kind of ironic twist - Eleanor and Chidi were paired to drive each other crazy, and they turned out to actually be soul-mates.