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This was discussed a bit back before Syria was a thing in the news, but after Russia gets to be a the hero in this crisis I wonder if it'll have changed at all. Putin is a disgusting human being, but there could be some political obligation towards them for the resolution of Syria that would really urge the U.S. to participate. Before, I wasn't so sure that we would participate in this year's Olympics because of the disdain the leaders had for one another. Now, I really don't know.

This was discussed a bit back before Syria was a thing in the news, but after Russia gets to be a the hero in this crisis I wonder if it'll have changed at all. Putin is a disgusting human being, but there could be some political obligation towards them for the resolution of Syria that would really urge the U.S. to participate. Before, I wasn't so sure that we would participate in this year's Olympics because of the disdain the leaders had for one another. Now, I really don't know.

On the other hand, Roger Ailes, the Chief of Fox News, liked the idea of discussing with Putin on Syria something which conservative media were blasting Obama on.

Well here is Putin's Op-Ed on the New York Times and this quote is eyebrow-raising.

My working and personal relationship with President Obama is marked by growing trust. I appreciate this. I carefully studied his address to the nation on Tuesday. And I would rather disagree with a case he made on American exceptionalism, stating that the United States’ policy is “what makes America different. It’s what makes us exceptional.” It is extremely dangerous to encourage people to see themselves as exceptional, whatever the motivation. There are big countries and small countries, rich and poor, those with long democratic traditions and those still finding their way to democracy. Their policies differ, too. We are all different, but when we ask for the Lord’s blessings, we must not forget that God created us equal.

Ever hear of Diogenes, Wiz? He was a philosopher around the time of Socrates.

He was a disgusting person too. Stories about him say that in order to make his views known to people (stoicism and cynicism mostly) he urinated on people who offended him, defecated and masturbated in public areas, and made obscene gestures at people. (Plato once described him as "a Socrates gone mad.")

Long story short, he was the kind of guy who wasn't pleasant to be around.

And yet, he's often regarded as a great thinker and an intellectual. One of the tamer myths about him is one you might recognize, the one about him wandering the world with a lantern searching for an honest man. (The reason he was said to have done that was because, as a cynic, he honestly thought such a man did not exist.)

But anyway, that just proves that some utterly revolting people somehow gain followers and respect for God knows what reason.

Uh, I was making a comparison. He mentioned how Putin was "a disgusting human being", and I pointed out how that is not always a liability when you are trying to influence people and get them to listen to you. Diogenes was also a disgusting human being (and a pervert), but some people actually respected - and even embraced - his ideas.

On topic, yes, but not entirely correct. Saying someone is a good person because they did one good thing or had a single positive revelation is wrong. The analogy you made was an intelligent person who acted immature and in some cases immorally, where Putin is in many cases immoral and isn't intelligent enough to justify it. A good example is his treatment of gays, which is unjustified.

The only thing I wonder is if the good he has done in recent times, like helping to resolve the issue in Syria, would overcome the bad he has done all his life, like blatant corporate takeover at a large scale and hatred of different denominations of people for no justifiable reason. He's even hated by his people, who campaigned a few years back under the battle cry of "Putin must go". He started out all right, but he's a monster.

@Ninfia-fan, responding to a comment you believe to be off-topic or spam is also spam. In fact, you are the only one who didn't contribute anything here, because Maedar was making a point about Putin's stance on many things which I linked to his character and thus the likelihood of the U.S. participating in the Olympics. Not trying to be a jerk, I just wanted to point that out so you don't get in trouble.

Uhm, well, Wiz, in Putin's defense, he's certainly qualified, more so than many modern world leaders known for actual atrocities. I mean, he graduated from the International Law branch of the Law Department of the Leningrad State University, and was then a Lieutenant Colonel in the KGB before going on to have a political career that has spanned from 1990 to the present, and his approval rating in Russia was at one point 81%, better than any other world leader at the time. (Seriously, guys like Saddam Hussein can't claim a record like that.)

I'm not saying I think Putin is competent and the best they've ever had (because I don't) but my comparison is still somewhat accurate. They've had FAR worse.

Tell me about it! He's the best pope that has ever existed, even if he quits tomorrow. He preaches crazy things like mercy, forgiveness, and love. He hasn't publicly condemned anything to my knowledge. What a guy.

Yep! Unfortunately, same cannot be said for the Republican Lt. Gov candidate of Virginia who is part of the Virginia GOP gubernatorial anti-gay trifecta . Can we remind this guy that according to the Bible, slavery is natural?

Looks like there's more hate from Alan Keyes, who ran against Obama for a senate seat in 2004. I can see why he lost, what with his despicable views on homosexuality and the chance that some of that crazy might rub off onto his other policies.

Comparing gay marriage to bestiality, incest, and pedophilia, and calling it the "archetype of all crimes against humanity" is more than disgusting. How people like this can show their faced in public after statements like that is beyond me.

Looks like there's more hate from Alan Keyes, who ran against Obama for a senate seat in 2004. I can see why he lost, what with his despicable views on homosexuality and the chance that some of that crazy might rub off onto his other policies.

Comparing gay marriage to bestiality, incest, and pedophilia, and calling it the "archetype of all crimes against humanity" is more than disgusting. How people like this can show their faced in public after statements like that is beyond me.

Same with E.W Jackson calling gays "sick" and "perverted". I swear, these so-called "Christians" are the worst kind and I'm Catholic by the way.

EDIT: And that's not even the worst part about Keyes. He called Dick Cheney's lesbian daughter Mary Cheney a sinner and his own daughter happens to be lesbian!

Same with E.W Jackson calling gays "sick" and "perverted". I swear, these so-called "Christians" are the worst kind and I'm Catholic by the way.

I wish there were more Xtians like you. Not too many people look to the Bible and see love, peace, and forgiveness as the primary tenets of the religion, and for good reason.

If the majority of people who followed a faith were level-headed, honest, kind people, I wouldn't have a problem with them or religion as a whole, but as it stands the people who still stand for the traditional values are a tiny minority.

I wish there were more Xtians like you. Not too many people look to the Bible and see love, peace, and forgiveness as the primary tenets of the religion, and for good reason.

If the majority of people who followed a faith were level-headed, honest, kind people, I wouldn't have a problem with them or religion as a whole, but as it stands the people who still stand for the traditional values are a tiny minority.

That is right. In reality, most Catholics support same-sex marriage which contradicts the negative stereotype. I have problems with those who use the religion to justify their hatred, narcissism, egotism, and even use it to not help those in need.

And this guy is one of them. Scott Lively, the anti-gay pastor who called Russia's anti-gay law one of his proudest achievements and also took credit for Uganda's law.

Most of the people against teh gays don't even know why they're against them. Logically, there is no sound reason to not fight for their rights and vilify them so. They hate because it is the only coping mechanism they know to deal with concepts they are ignorant about.

I feel nothing but contempt for them, mostly because if they would take half an hour out of their day to critically think about the issue and acknowledge all the evidence laid before them they'd realize how foolish they are being.

Most of the people against teh gays don't even know why they're against them. Logically, there is no sound reason to not fight for their rights and vilify them so. They hate because it is the only coping mechanism they know to deal with concepts they are ignorant about.

I feel nothing but contempt for them, mostly because if they would take half an hour out of their day to critically think about the issue and acknowledge all the evidence laid before them they'd realize how foolish they are being.

1. Are you talking about the pro or anti gay marriage lobby?

2. See, this is a major reason so many people are against or apathetic (most people falling into the latter) with regards to homosexuality and its issues. The arrogance and extent of viciousness makes you just as bad and intolerant as those you consider yourself better than.

There are perfectly logical reasons for people to oppose gay marriage. I don't agree with them, but I have enough of an open mind to understand that not all those who oppose certain homosexual issues are rabid gay bashers.

Last edited by Snorunt conservationist; 27th September 2013 at 6:06 PM.

2. See, this is a major reason so many people are against or apathetic (most people falling into the latter) with regards to homosexuality and its issues. The arrogance and extent of viciousness makes you just as bad and intolerant as those you consider yourself better than.

There are perfectly logical reasons for people to oppose gay marriage. I don't agree with them, but I have enough of an open mind to understand that not all those who oppose certain homosexual issues are rabid gay bashers.

Not really if you are being a Christian and using your religion to hide your hatred when you are demonizing them. Besides, those are actually coming from the loudest voices. It contradicts Jesus and that we are an evolving nation which is why slavery is abolished, the Civil Rights movement, and now with the movement of gay rights.

Not really if you are being a Christian and using your religion to hide your hatred when you are demonizing them. Besides, those are actually coming from the loudest voices. It contradicts Jesus and that we are an evolving nation which is why slavery is abolished, the Civil Rights movement, and now with the movement of gay rights.

1. Not wanting gay marriage is not equivalent to hating gay people.

2. Which loudest voices in what context?

3. Oh please. Gay marriage is not comparable to the civil rights movement or the abolition of slavery. How on earth can anyone make that comparison sincerely?

Not really if you are being a Christian and using your religion to hide your hatred when you are demonizing them. Besides, those are actually coming from the loudest voices. It contradicts Jesus and that we are an evolving nation which is why slavery is abolished, the Civil Rights movement, and now with the movement of gay rights.

You're generalizing the situation.
Granted, yes I am a Christian, and yes I am against gay marriage, I do not hate gays in any way.

Jesus also taught to love people....Loving people and agreeing with what they do are two totally different things.

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Maybe not exactly equivalent, but certainly comparable. Since there is not a reasonable explanation for keeping homosexuals from marrying one another, the only explanations are contempt, severe logical failure, or some combination of the two.

2. Which loudest voices in what context?

I can't speak for Silver, but I think he means the most prominent social opinion as well as the majority opinion in certain political rings .

3. Oh please. Gay marriage is not comparable to the civil rights movement or the abolition of slavery. How on earth can anyone make that comparison sincerely?

They are exactly equivalent! The arguments against gay marriage today are almost identical to the arguments against same-sex marriage were in the past. This is a civil rights issue, allowing people the same rights and abilities as their peers, so how isn't it equivalent to freeing black people or allowing them to vote?

It's the same issue with a different group of people, and the same Bible that wants to keep them from equality.

Originally Posted by anselm the wise

You're generalizing the situation.
Granted, yes I am a Christian, and yes I am against gay marriage, I do not hate gays in any way.
Jesus also taught to love people....Loving people and agreeing with what they do are two totally different things.

If my doctrine was to love everyone, but I believed that same-sex marriage was wrong and shouldn't be allowed, would you agree that I followed through with loving my neighbors? Maybe that's too close to home or could actually be true... so how about a different scenario? What if I "loved" everyone, but wanted to reestablish slavery as a national institution? Would I love my peers who disagreed?

Simple rights, human rights, are essential to treating your peers equally, and doubly as important is you profess a love for your fellow man. You can't love your fellow man if you don't want to give him equivalent rights.

Neither of you have been able to provide a reason you're against gay marriage, yet you are against it. This proves Eterna's original statement that sitting and thinking about why you're against the proposition has proven too much of a challenge, and I have to say I agree with his conclusion.

Yet, House Republicans and in other states try to pass anti-LGBT discrimination at working environments in certain states. It's not just same-sex marriage, but also other gay rights in general.

2. Which loudest voices in what context?

I'm talking about so-called Christian movements, organizations like the Catholic League, and the GOP Representatives like Gohmert, Bachmann, and Steve King. Heck, why not bring in Bryan Fischer and Rush Limbaugh? I can go on.

3. Oh please. Gay marriage is not comparable to the civil rights movement or the abolition of slavery. How on earth can anyone make that comparison sincerely?

It's not just gay marriage like I said, it's LGBT rights that is being threatened. I may be Catholic but even I can admit that the church can be wrong on many things. They were wrong on slavery and segregation before you know.

EDIT: Also news in my home state, NJ Judge rules that same-sex couples can marry in New Jersey.

This post is not targeting any specific person. I'm just talking generally.

Saying that you don't hate gay people but you're still against gay marriage is equivalent to saying that you don't have a problem with interracial couples but you just don't want them to be allowed to get married.

I have a theory that the Pokémon world and the Mother world are one in the same. I won't go into spoilers for Mother 3, but think of Black and White's story of the dragon and the twins. Also, chimeras are kind of like Pokémon.