This is a discussion on (Utah Valley University student newspaper) Concealed weapons pose a threat to campus within the The Second Amendment & Gun Legislation Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; How naive can they be? I'm a former student at UVU. I once wrote a letter to the editor complaining about negative imagery of a ...

The College Republicans are hosting fundraisers Oct. 7-8 in which club members and guests will pay to be guided through the process of gaining a concealed weapons permit. Trainers certified by the NRA will take those who sign up through the entire process, save only licking the stamp and mailing off the papers.

The UVU Review editorial board wishes to question this fundraiser and address what we consider to be some serious issues with its taking place on this campus.
First, any attempt to put more weapons into people’s hands can only make the risk of violent crime worse. Our school is no safer for having 30 more concealed weapons on it at any given time. Precisely the opposite is true.

The more guns, the more opportunity for accidents, for misuse, for intentional crime in our halls and for the unimaginable catastrophes which have unfortunately befallen too many schools in the recent past.

Further, the College Republicans are raising money by putting more guns into this school. Given the problems, are you comfortable with this? We certainly are not.
While we cannot deny the legal right to those who wish to get concealed carry permits, we can question using the resources of the university to do so. There is something perverse in using our own campus’ resources, for which all students pay, to put those same students at risk. Regardless of the legality of concealed carry permits, there is an ethical contradiction here and another venue should have been found.

We must acknowledge that those who will attend this fundraiser are likely to be those who are responsible in the use of firearms, as they are clearly seeking to obtain permits through the appropriate legal means and with the right training. However, we do not feel this diminishes the problems we point out.

Here are some Center for Disease Control statistics on gun deaths from the year 2001:

Guns, far more than making us safer, make it easier to kill either ourselves or kill others.

We also wish to ask this question: For what reason would someone wish to carry a firearm? Of course, it is only too obvious to respond, “Because it is my right.” That is entirely true, but it is at best a partial answer.

We feel that beyond the simple right to bear arms, there exists a tendency toward mistrust and fear in their use and ownership – the use of firearms to create a sense of safety based not on their capacity to protect, but rather the capacity to cause terror in others. If others are afraid, perhaps they will leave you alone.

This is simply too easy, and does nothing to engage other people in the real forum where safety is created – civil society and community. Provo and Orem are not safe because there are more guns, they are safe because by and large we understand, relate, and communicate with each other better than other places do. Getting to know your neighbors does more than any weapon will ever do to prevent the need for having to brandish a weapon.

Given all of the above, we can only condemn this fundraiser taking place on our campus.

classic b.s. argument i love the stats from the "Center for Disease Control statistics on gun deaths from the year 2001" how about we pull up the ones involving car accidents and then ban cars from campus?

When i was in college I didn't worry about a CHL holder accidentally shooting me... I worried about walking/riding my bike across campus and some idiot hitting me with his car. Some people just don't get it.

We feel that beyond the simple right to bear arms, there exists a tendency toward mistrust and fear in their use and ownership – the use of firearms to create a sense of safety based not on their capacity to protect, but rather the capacity to cause terror in others. If others are afraid, perhaps they will leave you alone.

Of all their arguments, this one is the most bizarre. They are seeking concealed permits. Those who carry concealed take great pains to, oh, I don't know, CONCEAL the fact that they have a gun. Causing terror in others doesn't enter the equation. Good lord, what a stupid argument.

Of all their arguments, this one is the most bizarre. They are seeking concealed permits. Those who carry concealed take great pains to, oh, I don't know, CONCEAL the fact that they have a gun. Causing terror in others doesn't enter the equation. Good lord, what a stupid argument.

Agreed. I was going to quote the exact paragraph.

I don't carry a firearm to cause terror in others so they will leave me alone, I carry to have a chance at surviving an armed attack.

Plus, like you said, torgo, it's usually concealed, so I can't "cause terror in others" unless that person is an active threat to me. In that case, it's reasonable for me to "cause terror" among other things.

And the quotes from 2001...
Suicides: so if no gun was available, those people couldn't have found another way??? Yeh, right.

Homicides: proves the point of concealed carry to me. If those 11,348 murder victims had been armed, there wouldn't have been 11,348 of them.

What a waste of time to try and reason with someone like the author of that piece.

10 to 1 this person is an Out of Stater and see what happends when you let Out of Staters go to your schools, they write BS. If you don't like how they do it in Utah, don't got there, keep your a$$ in California. JMHO

Posted below so we don't give this site a lot of unwarranted hits. No reason to make them think it is a popular opinion.

Excellent idea, thanks!

This is simply too easy, and does nothing to engage other people in the real forum where safety is created – civil society and community. Provo and Orem are not safe because there are more guns, they are safe because by and large we understand, relate, and communicate with each other better than other places do. Getting to know your neighbors does more than any weapon will ever do to prevent the need for having to brandish a weapon.

"The more guns, the more opportunity for accidents, for misuse, for intentional crime in our halls and for the unimaginable catastrophes which have unfortunately befallen too many schools in the recent past."

So someone with a legal CCW will all of a sudden decide, hey, I'm going to commit a crime today? They don't point out the "catastrophes" in schools were not comitted by CCW holders, and were able to kill at will until people with guns(police) showed up.

"The right of the whole people, old and young, men, women and boys, and not militia only, to keep and bear arms of every description, not such merely as are used by the militia, shall not be infringed, curtailed, or broken in upon, in the smallest degree..."
Nunn v. State GA 1848

Student papers are funny things. I wrote for a fraternity newsletter when I was a lower classman and for the school paper when I was a senior.

It will be interesting to see what kind of response the paper gets and prints.

Students are trying lots of new ideas. I wrote an anti-gun paper my freshman year. Held my own debating it too. Wrote a paper against animal testing too. Still on the fence on that one. Some of what they do is just cruel and unnecessary but that's a topic for another board.

My point is that there aren't a lot of people who take student papers seriously. It's a good opportunity to rebut his points with legitimate statistics and logic in a polite well argued letter to the editor. A good debate in the editorial section can change people's minds.

Although this article is genuine b.s., Utah has one of the best policies for carrying guns in schools. If a school or university in Utah receives public money, it is defined as 'public'. Therefore, state preemption laws take effect and guarantee the right of CCW permit holders to carry in said 'public' schools. An example of that is that many students at the University of Utah carry concealed, whether or not the student body likes it. On the other hand, Brigham Young University, a private university, bans concealed carry; it being a private entity, it can do so. I don't know if UVU is considered 'public' or not, by state definitions .

"A heavily armed citizenry is not about overthrowing the government; it is about preventing the government from overthrowing liberty. A people stripped of their right of self defense is defenseless against their own government." -source

I don't know if UVU is considered 'public' or not, by state definitions .

UVU is 'public'. It's plainly obvious whoever wrote the paper is a knee-jerk reactionary "coward" who focused on LAW-ABIDING CC licensees, ignoring the unpredictability of criminal element on campus that prefers unarmed victims. The "coward" is probably from a restricted "liberal" state like California or "politically liberal" areas Salt Lake City/Park City. Naivete equals stupidity and narrow-minded, as the laughable and infuriating editorial proves.

We feel that beyond the simple right to bear arms, there exists a tendency toward mistrust and fear in their use and ownership – the use of firearms to create a sense of safety based not on their capacity to protect, but rather the capacity to cause terror in others. If others are afraid, perhaps they will leave you alone.

Looks to me like he make the arument FOR us..... nipplehead.......
BG's WANT to brandish weapons because it does just what he says it does..... cause terror!! The BG sure as hell is not gonna go around threatning other persons WITH guns, they want to threaten persons WITHOUT guns........ what an a-clown!!

Sarcasm - Just one of the many services I provide! Ever wonder why massacres never happen at a gun range??You might find me dead in a ditch one day, but I'll be in a pile of brass. - Stolen from Zebra64