Originally posted by dannyfal
oh come on slayer you can't honestly say that Iraq hating on gays and dropping TWO atomic bombs on a country aren't in the same ball park. my
personal opinion is that the A bomb was a worst move, but then again its only personal opinion

Who keeps dragging gays into this????

I'm against the PURPOSEFUL and DELIBERATE targeting of civilians. The US has killed Civies I'll admit that, but we don't deliberately target them
in Iraq or Afghanistan or use them as weapons just to get a point across.

I brought up gays in Iraq originally, seems like Danny can't let it go lol. But yeah...

(to danny)Slaughtering someone because of their sexual orientation is the same as dropping bombs to end a war aren't in the same ball park, not sure
if it's even the same sport..on the same planet.

Although I don't agree with the atomic massacres of the Japanese, the concept was quite different than that's going on in the gay community in
Iraq....

Well if you want to pray for a bunch of guys that fill their rearends full of explosives just to kill some innocent people than go ahead. As far as
America goes, at least we are efficient about killing the enemy and dont blow ourselves up in the process.

Ahhh you don't suppose it is because America is an advantageous position? Better technology, better guns, better armor, better intelligence, better
economy. The enemy is in a desperate position.

To make a comparison, let's look at the WWI and WWII. The fight was fare between the sides, and there was many sides. Anyways check this out:

Remember the ships in WWII when it entered German territory? Well the individuals in front were sacrificed. It was basically execution, a machine gun
in front and a massive field of nothing (open target). Some are sacrificed, get it? That is the same for the Jihadists. You think suicide bombing is
bad, when giving up your life to protect is good. You are being unfare between the two forces in battle, in every way.

I'm going to try to keep my thoughts within the bounds of decorum, even though I find the idea of being kind and respectful to people when they
don't deserve it absurd.

First of all Oozyism, it's hard to have a decent debate with someone who is grammatically inept. Heck, the ATS forum system has a built-in spell
checker. Use it.

Now on to the meat of it: I'm going to offend you, and I'm going to do it on purpose, because you deserve it.

Anybody who kills himself at the request or order of another human being is an idiot. Someone who does it for that reason in the name of their
religion is an even bigger idiot. There is no exaltation in suicide, and anybody who believes in a religion where that behavior is rewarded is better
off dead, but should go die in private, and not at the expense of others.

Don't even try to call a Jihadist courageous, either. Courage's reward is the direct protection and preservation of life, not some warped-logic
ideal that you're somehow courageously protecting your people or ideals by blowing up a school bus, coffee shop, or some other non-military target.
Oh, and I especially love it when ignorant religious zealots claim that such locations ARE military targets because it's a war against "western
ideals." HA! That's about as vapid a justification for murder as you'll ever hear or read.

Just so you can be better informed, the guys who stood at the front of those boats didn't stand there hoping to die, like your brainless Jihadists
do.

Here's a question for you: Bin Laden and his ilk always bleat on and on like the goats they are about sacrifice and martyrdom. SO WHY DON'T THEY
LEAD THE CHARGE? Oh, that's right, I forgot, they sleep in caves like cowards while the young boys and girls they brainwashed blow themselves up
instead. Nice people, your heroes.

Ahh, but though I seem angry, I'm actually smiling inside, because these dummies aren't going to get that divine reward they were promised. When
that button gets pressed and their flesh gets ripped and vaporized, it's lights out, my friend. No paradise, no heaven, no virgins and no wings. Dead
is dead, and Jihad, in the name of Jesus/Jehovah or Muhammad/Allah, is a fool's errand.

Exactly! Slayer is completely right, and hundreds of thousands more people(mostly Japanese) would've died if the A-bombs weren't dropped.
Like I said earlier, i'm not sure that there was a better choice we could've made in the situation that we were in, and the A-bombs got the job
done. It ended Japan's involvement in WWII in only minutes.

You're simplifying a situation that has a LOT of different factors involved.
And there are plenty of soldiers who have said "NO MORE" to the war machine, and many of them are basically living on the run. Or worse yet, imagine
saying "NO" and going AWOL in the middle of a desert with minimal supplies. Good luck with that one.

If you really want to know why soldiers follow orders, even when they might not agree with those orders....perhaps you should join the military and
give it a shot!

there was no draft... they chose to go. they're brave and heros and all that but they knew what they were signing up for. "protect your country"
aka "go kill people who we have no right to kill"

"he told me to do it" or the "constitution told me to do it" is just dumb

It was the action that the jihadists took upon 9/11 that led us to the path of war. Not because Obama, Bush, or the Constitution told us to. The
jihadists attacked us. Now there are many who have questions if this is really the case. Hell, even I have questions about what really happened that
day.

But up to now, our government has implicated Al-qeadea(?) and such. If one day proof is provided that this is not the case, then I would expect our
leaders to be punished for their mistake.

As far as the money issue, I will agree with you that many corporations are hitting gold. And there is no doubt IMO that this is part of the reason
for the longevity of this war.

The Nazi's followed Hitler's order, a dictator, who basically did away with the German Constitution.

Our troops follow Obama's order, an elected official, who is obligated to abide by the Constitution. A Constitution that means a lot to its
citizens.

Wrong War was led by Bush not Obama. If Obama was in White House then such stupidity would'nt have taken place. Obama is just trying to clear up the
mess Bush created by slowly withdrawing from Iraq for which I commend him.

Wrong War was led by Bush not Obama. If Obama was in White House then such stupidity would'nt have taken place. Obama is just trying to clear
up the mess Bush created by slowly withdrawing from Iraq for which I commend him.

It's Obama's war now. I don't see what Obama has to clear up since the US and Iraqi's had already agreed to a withdrawal time frame. All Obama has
to decide is to how quickly he will withdraw them.

I agree with most of what you have said about suicide bombers. It seems to me to be one of the ultimate acts of ignorance and pure selfishness.
However, I did make the point earlier that quite a few suicide bombers have blown themselves up because their loved ones' were taken from them as a
direct result of the American occupation.
Please note that I am not saying that it is right, I am only pointing out that there are multiple sides to this story and we are dealing not in black
and white, but multitudes of grays here.

I respect all of your opinions, as you should respect each others'. If there's something we can all agree on here, let it be that those behind the
corporate-sponsored war machine are REALLY the ones' with all of this blood on their hands.

The Nazi's followed Hitler's
order, a dictator, who basically did away with the German Constitution.
Our troops follow Obama's order, an elected official, who is obligated to abide by the Constitution. A Constitution that means a lot to its
citizens.

For the sake of the T&Cs, I cant just say

The Constitution of the USA has been continuously abrogated & eroded since the US Civil War. Most recently, the Patriot Act etc. has brought the USA
frighteningly close to the conditions in which dictatorship can succeed. What Bush Jnr started, Obama has continued. So its not called a dictatorship?
So what? Its still an oligarchy with a figurehead out front. An oligarchy that continues to concentrate power in itself & uses all means available to
maintain & expand its overseas hegemony. Seems like a little more lebensraum is on the horizon too... NAU anyone?

As I have clearly stated earlier, many of these soldiers were already a part of the military PRE-9/11. Many others bought into the lies that we were
all fed via the MSM post-9/11. Alot of these kids thought that they were doing the right thing by signing up, and had no idea what they were getting
into or what was/is really going on behind the scenes.
If it's not willful ignorance, it is just dead WRONG to pass judgement as you are doing.

It's quite clear that nobody is buying what you're selling, but if it makes you feel better to repeat yourself over and over, than by all means have
at it!

EDITED to add that we didn't go over there to "flex our muscles", we are there for oil, strategic positions, oil, and defense contracts....probably
in that order.

The Constitution of the USA has been continuously abrogated & eroded since the US Civil War. Most recently, the Patriot Act etc. has brought
the USA frighteningly close to the conditions in which dictatorship can succeed.

Imposing a 24 hour "moment of silence" on this thread to allow people to cool down.

There's a lot of anger and name-calling right now. I think you are entitled to post whether or not you support the idea or some of the idea (a
moment of silence for civilian victims) or whatever. There's some interesting points that might be discussed.

Weyhey! We're allowed back in the sandpit! Thanks Byrd!
So, upon reflection, I'd like to propose that, rather than minutes of silence for combatants on any side, what we need is a memorial to the stupidity
of war. Not the folly; the utter stupidity.
I'm thinking of an enormous iron brazier set up in wherever is the most fought over patch of land. It should have an eternal flame, to symbolise the
continuous waste of resources that preparing for, fighting & rebuilding after, conflict involves. Worldwide, all arms manufacturers should be taxed 1%
to pay for its upkeep.
Obviously, there'd be a lot left over. So each year, on a given day, a young child from every country on earth should be brought to the monument,
where the remainder of the cash, in paper bills, would be piled up waiting for them to grab handfulls to throw into the flames. Not just to symbolise
the money being wasted on this pointless exercise, but to fully underline what else it could be spent on instead.
The children who will be the soldiers & the civilian casualties, all of them the potential victims, of tomorrow's greed.

Originally posted by dannyfal
two wrongs don't make a right...as lame as it sounds

isn't going to the middle east and trying to run s*** just gonna piss more people off?

we got attacked, we don't know by who exactly, and we should've taken it like a man

but we had to go flex our muscles. even though we're all just fat and lazy

No retaliation would have meant more attack in quicker succession as any terrorist org. any where would have seen the weakness. I am sure if I walked
up to you in the street and punched you in the nose you probably hit me back?

This content community relies on user-generated content from our member contributors. The opinions of our members are not those of site ownership who maintains strict editorial agnosticism and simply provides a collaborative venue for free expression.