Why? We're fans. I hate losing but we're not coaches or players. They shouldn't be laying down and giving up. I've always disagreed with Scott when he said players and coaches should try to lose. You can't do that on the team.

However, as a fan, if we're not going to win anything I'd much rather get a higher draft pick to improve the team. I would never "root" for my team to lose. Ever. But if they kept losing and we got a stud player that would lessen the impact a bit.

I suppose I kind of understand that position, but at the same time nothing in the NFL is ever certain. You see a lot of teams for years like the Browns, Bengals, Raiders, Rams, or Jaguars that stay in the dungeon season after season. I think I'd rather go 7-9 or 8-8 personally just because I feel that for the future, next season, you'd have a better chance of accomplishing something instead of going 4-12, where you might be seeing those kinds of records for years. Every team, organization, and situation is different but that's just my opinion on the matter.

Okay and we have more Super Bowl trophies. Irrelevant nonsense FTW. LOL u mad. Take what somewhere else? I wasn't even gloating in this thread. Just having a regular conversation and you're already butthurt.

You've never come in this thread and just talked football with us. I'm very far from butthurt. You want to act like a normal and talk then that's fine but come in and ask real questions.

I thought that never should have got called back. He had him inside and didn't stretch his arms.

The OL wasn't that good first game but again not why we lost. I know it sounds crazy and LT was mad but I agree with CGF that we make a run somehow.

We've been bad, but with the defense being surprisingly decent at everything except rushing the passer we can absolutely get into this race right quick if the offense can start executing like they should. Dallas are our only threat for the division and you can never count them out of screwing it up. We may not be good but 9-7 to 7-9 could win this division, as pathetic as that is. And despite this hole our team is totally capable of getting to 7-9 wins still.

If it's gunna happen it needs to start in KC, but Alex smith sucks and the chiefs aren't as good as their record, so it's not exactly a stretch.

You've never come in this thread and just talked football with us. I'm very far from butthurt. You want to act like a normal and talk then that's fine but come in and ask real questions.

Okay. Well I'm doing that now. First time for everything. And "real questions"? You'll have to forgive me if I don't recognize your authority on what a "real question" constitutes as. No one forced you to even respond. If you don't like the conversation I was having with Forenci (which was simply asking his opinion on his personal perceptions as a football fan in a specific scenario so I don't see what's wrong with that) then, well, you know what you can do. You can always leave.

I suppose I kind of understand that position, but at the same time nothing in the NFL is ever certain. You see a lot of teams for years like the Browns, Bengals, Raiders, Rams, or Jaguars that stay in the dungeon season after season. I think I'd rather go 7-9 or 8-8 personally just because I feel that for the future, next season, you'd have a better chance of accomplishing something instead of going 4-12, where you might be seeing those kinds of records for years. Every team, organization, and situation is different but that's just my opinion on the matter.

Yeah but those are terrible teams. They are terribly run. I mean, if the 49ers ended up having a terrible season and picking high wouldn't you expect them to make some great picks and really take advantage of their draft position?

I would expect the Giants to as well. If we're gonna suck, we minds well let our team get some high picks to maximize what they can get.

Okay. Well I'm doing that now. First time for everything. And "real questions"? You'll have to forgive me if I don't recognize your authority on what a "real question" constitutes as. No one forced you to even respond. If you don't like the conversation I was having with Forenci (which was simply asking his opinion on his personal perceptions as a football fan in a specific scenario so I don't see what's wrong with that) then, well, you know what you can do. You can always leave.

Yeah but those are terrible teams. They are terribly run. I mean, if the 49ers ended up having a terrible season and picking high wouldn't you expect them to make some great picks and really take advantage of their draft position?

I would expect the Giants to as well. If we're gonna suck, we minds well let our team get some high picks to maximize what they can get.

Ehhhh, I think perception is subjective depending on the circumstances. A good quarterback for instance can make an organization seem really competent. Take that quarterback away, and when the losses start piling up, questions about organizations can easily be conceived in terms of if they're terribly run or not. This was the case for years in New Orleans until Brees was signed. Folks wanted Tom Benson to sell the team.

To answer your question regarding the 49ers, now...maybe. I mean we were also winning games under Terry Donahue when he was in charge for a few years. In the 1990's folks thought we had a pretty well run organization, but we really weren't working the salary cap well from the middle of that decade and onward despite having several successful seasons. But no one really talked about that because we were winning. When Steve Young left it all went to hell for the most part. That and we found ourselves in salary cap hell for a few years.

It really depends. Just for me as a fan I'd always want my team to do as well as they could. Maybe if it's a 2-14 and another team you're competing with might get the right to draft a once in a generation player, maybe. But if you have a chance to get to .500 and not be a laughing stock, I'd rather go that route.

LOL I'm just trying to help you. Again, no one is forcing you to respond to my posts. You started talking to me first. Stay, do whatever you want. I was having a civilized discussion with another post and you starting crying about irrelevant nonsense for no apparent reason other than me having the said civilized discussion. And you can't get banned for posting in another team's forum LMFAO.

God what I wouldn't give for us to get Mack and Byrd after cutting Baas, Rolle and Tuck.

Beatty got beat hard today, but he's earned some leeway with how well he played last year and so far this year before this game. Pugh's been a very pleasant surprise and Booty's aight, so if we could replace Baas with a stud like Mack the whole thing would come together. That would fix our running game and let Eli go more than 3 plays without getting crushed.

God what I wouldn't give for us to get Mack and Byrd after cutting Baas, Rolle and Tuck.

Beatty got beat hard today, but he's earned some leeway with how well he played last year and so far this year before this game. Pugh's been a very pleasant surprise and Booty's aight, so if we could replace Baas with a stud like Mack the whole thing would come together. That would fix our running game and let Eli go more than 3 plays without getting crushed.

Add a OG, LB, DB and DE in the draft and our team would be fixed.

I don't want us to cut Rolle. Restructure, yes, but he is one of the precious few actual leaders on our team. He speaks his mind and actually tries to give our team a kick in their sorry asses. That's not something we can just get rid of now.

Guys. Be real. We look absolutely awful through 3 weeks. We can talk about why for days.

It's a combination of everything. Bad schemes (we didn't run a single slant or WR screen and ran vertical routes all game even when it was obvious our OL couldn't block a 4 man rush for more than 2 seconds), bad players (OL sucks), and just bad leadership (gutless 2nd half).

We look terrible. We're not a good team right now. Can it get turned around? Sure. But now you have to go 10-3 for the rest of the season just to make the playoffs.

There's a reason why only 3 teams in NFL history have pulled it off. It's not easy.

We just look bad. And I'm tired of our schemes. We just seem so dated and stale. Why do we insist on running so much i-form and 2 TE when it's obvious to everyone that our best is a spread 3 WR set?

Why put 2 TEs on the field when we don't even have ONE good one let alone 2?

Why are we so predictable with our I-form? What makes Gilbride think that PA pass with 2 vertical routes on Iform is gonna work when teams have so little respect for our run game, they don't even put 8 in the box and stay in a 2 deep set?

As much as I LOVE Coughlin and have always defending him when most Giants fans wanted him gone before the Super Bowls. If this season ends up being a disaster it would time to part ways. Sometimes players just need to hear a new message, they get too comfortable. I think Coughlin has actually become too soft.

I think that's happening. It's just time for something new. Our schemes are so stale and dated. Especially on offense. Our offense is somewhat archaic. The players got complacent. It's just time to blow things up and start fresh.

Nick Saban. There are a lot of rumors he wants to get back into the NFL and he'd be very selective over what team to take over. I think we would obviously be a team he'd be interested in. My second choice would be Shaw at Stanford.