The calendar keeps ignoring my requests to stop, and so it turns out today is
another birthday for me. Celebrations are pretty subdued here, however, as we
spent the day in the hospital yesterday saying goodbye to my step-grandma, as
she requested to be taken off all of her life-support after her kidneys finally
gave out. If she hasn't passed yet, she'll go soon, and we are heartbroken. She
was a remarkable woman who lead a magnificent life for 93 years, and she will be
missed... one of the next couple of days I'll write up a bit to justify that
hype. On the brighter side, I'm considering my present this year to be Hudson
the wonder dog, and the way she is hanging in there pretty well for the time
being. There had been indications her kidneys were likewise failing due to her
medications, but they have rebounded and she's doing better at the moment.
Hudson and Grandma Belle are the same age (if you do that dog years math), and
in an odd coincidence, each suffered a bout of congestive heart failure at the
same time, and have spent the past several weeks sharing symptoms and prognoses
in an eerie way, and only just in the past week did their seemingly intertwined
outlooks diverge. Hats off to Belle, Hudson, and all their fellow elders who
have to have the final frontier so bravely, and who have less need to live for
themselves than for the rest of us who struggle so hard to let them go when they
are ready.

xXBatmanXx wrote on Nov 21, 2013, 17:25:Once again (native american) your rage is centered on the officer and not the real problem. Now we dig into it and things make more sense, but yet you were basing everything on the officer.

Alright, I'll do it in bullet points.

1) Oklahoma police like to pretend they care about people driving without insurance.2) I get hit by a guy who pretends to have insurance, it passes by the cop at the time.3) It turns out the insurance has expired, ergo, Latin, the guy is driving without insurance.4) I call the same cop who was at the scene of the accident (and who wrote the guy a ticket for making an illegal turn) and got told "Yeah, that happens," and he doesn't do shit about it. So either he's a lazy cop, possible, or the state of Oklahoma really doesn't give a shit about people driving without insurance, and the traffic stops to check for that are plain utter horseshit.

I never said everything was on him, that's you trying to turn it into that. Everything else I've said is in response to things you recommended or asked for. Where do I say that it's the cop's fault that I have no legal recourse to get the money back? You're literally making shit up right now.

It's not about taking it to a trial. How ruined is your day now that you had to spend the night in a holding cell or had a pile of tickets dropped in your lap that you now have to take the time to fight or pay for?

Where is this pile of tickets coming from? Again, if you inform a cop of your rights, what exactly is he going to write you up for? Him getting pissed off is not a valid reason for writing me a ticket. If I'm abusing him, threatening him or things like that, sure. If you politely hand him something like the aforementioned card along with your driver's license, what exactly are you doing that you think is against the law?

Cops don't have the authority to just randomly fucking write tickets and detain people.

No, they don't. But since when has that ever stopped anyone?

All the time every time. I and other officers I train and work with, NEVER stop someone "just because". Again, can't speak for other people, but not all cops are bad cops. Yea, there are bad ones, and I hope they are dealt with, lose their jobs, and a criminally charged - I sure as hell won't work with them and don't want anything to do with them.

It is so easy to have a reason to stop a car, I never understood why "bad cops" would have to make up a reason. I see thousands of cars a shift, it wouldn't even cross my mind to stop one for no reason. Which is probably why I have never lost a case.

If they can see something in plain view that is suspicious, that gives them probable cause to search your vehicle without your permission. It's how they pop people for drugs, guns, and other illegal stuff all the time. Some idiot will have a baggie on the back seat or a bong sticking out from under a seat. You probably wavered a bit and they bit, hoping to score an arrest.

And this is why people love dogs. If a K9 unit hits positive on your car, it's getting searched, and it's completely legal. Officers can't detain you for an unreasonable length of time while waiting for a dog, though. What constitutes "unreasonable length" is up to the judge/jury.

xXBatmanXx wrote on Nov 21, 2013, 17:11:Creston, I would have retained a civil attorney in that situation (depending how bad the wreck was).

I did. Never came to nothing because the guy was native american, and apparently the only place you can sue a native american is in an indian court, and the odds of winning there are basically exactly zero.

/edit: ugh, we get it Creston, you never do anything wrong and you hate cops and you have been wronged by them. Geez.

Stop building straw men, bats. I've never said that. The entire argument started with me asking what exactly a cop is going to give you a ticket for/arrest you for if you hand him the aforementioned card. The only reason the accident came up is because they're holding "insurance" checks here while at the same time they obviously don't give a flying fuck about whether people drive with or without insurance. (And it's rampant in OK. they estimate 20-25% have no insurance.)

Once again (native american) your rage is centered on the officer and not the real problem. Now we dig into it and things make more sense, but yet you were basing everything on the officer.

It's not about taking it to a trial. How ruined is your day now that you had to spend the night in a holding cell or had a pile of tickets dropped in your lap that you now have to take the time to fight or pay for?

Where is this pile of tickets coming from? Again, if you inform a cop of your rights, what exactly is he going to write you up for? Him getting pissed off is not a valid reason for writing me a ticket. If I'm abusing him, threatening him or things like that, sure. If you politely hand him something like the aforementioned card along with your driver's license, what exactly are you doing that you think is against the law?

Cops don't have the authority to just randomly fucking write tickets and detain people.

PHJF wrote on Nov 21, 2013, 17:04:Ohio used DUI before switching a number of years ago to OVI: Operating a Vehicle while Impaired. OVI is all-inclusive. You can be arrested for OVI'ing on a bicycle. It is also illegal to be in possession of keys to and intoxicated in a parked car while in the driver's seat.

Ah, okay. To be honest, I have no problem with DUI/OVI or whatever stops. Those genuinely have to do with safety, mine included.

It's the other stops that are horseshit. And in the 10 years that I've lived here, I've twice gotten stopped for insurance-checks, once for god knows what reason as they just stopped me, took a look inside, and moved me on (I guess they were hunting someone), and never for a DUI check.

They most likely weren't looking for anybody. If they can see something in plain view that is suspicious, that gives them probable cause to search your vehicle without your permission. It's how they pop people for drugs, guns, and other illegal stuff all the time. Some idiot will have a baggie on the back seat or a bong sticking out from under a seat. You probably wavered a bit and they bit, hoping to score an arrest.

PHJF wrote on Nov 21, 2013, 17:17:If an officer in Ohio stopped you to "check if you had insurance", you'd destroy him in court. If you weren't breaking any traffic/motor vehicle equipment laws there was no basis for a stop and any subsequent findings would be inadmissible as fruits of the poisonous tree.

Yep, apparently not here in Oklahoma. I need to figure out how legal that actually is.

If an officer in Ohio stopped you to "check if you had insurance", you'd destroy him in court. If you weren't breaking any traffic/motor vehicle equipment laws there was no basis for a stop and any subsequent findings would be inadmissible as fruits of the poisonous tree.

*UPDATE TO THE VIDEO ABOVE** Fort Worth police initially said they could not immediately find any record of their officers being involved in the roadblock, but on Tuesday police spokesman Sgt. Kelly Peel said that the department's Traffic Division coordinated with the NHTSA on the use of off-duty officers after the agency asked for help with the survey.

"We are reviewing the actions of all police personnel involved to ensure that FWPD policies and procedures were followed," he said. "We apologize if any of our drivers and citizens were offended or inconvenienced by the NHTSA National Roadside Survey."

Don't be mad at cops, be mad at the NHTSA.

There were off-duty police officers forcing people to go into the parking lot where they were doing their survey. The lady motioned to drive through, and the cop shook her off and directed her into the parking lot. That's what I initially had the issue with, especially since they were off-duty and wearing their uniform and acting as if they were on duty. (though I have no idea what the legality of that is.)

xXBatmanXx wrote on Nov 21, 2013, 17:11:Creston, I would have retained a civil attorney in that situation (depending how bad the wreck was).

I did. Never came to nothing because the guy was native american, and apparently the only place you can sue a native american is in an indian court, and the odds of winning there are basically exactly zero.

/edit: ugh, we get it Creston, you never do anything wrong and you hate cops and you have been wronged by them. Geez.

Stop building straw men, bats. I've never said that. The entire argument started with me asking what exactly a cop is going to give you a ticket for/arrest you for if you hand him the aforementioned card. The only reason the accident came up is because they're holding "insurance" checks here while at the same time they obviously don't give a flying fuck about whether people drive with or without insurance. (And it's rampant in OK. they estimate 20-25% have no insurance.)

*UPDATE TO THE VIDEO ABOVE** Fort Worth police initially said they could not immediately find any record of their officers being involved in the roadblock, but on Tuesday police spokesman Sgt. Kelly Peel said that the department's Traffic Division coordinated with the NHTSA on the use of off-duty officers after the agency asked for help with the survey.

"We are reviewing the actions of all police personnel involved to ensure that FWPD policies and procedures were followed," he said. "We apologize if any of our drivers and citizens were offended or inconvenienced by the NHTSA National Roadside Survey."

xXBatmanXx wrote on Nov 21, 2013, 17:06:Isn't the Sheriff a position that is an election where you are? Didn't your populace choose him?

If I'm not mistaken, he was the only guy that was running, or he ran as a deputy against some joe schmoe from the neighborhood who thought it'd be fun to be a cop. But I can't quite remember the details, it's not as if I really gave it much thought at the time, until I had to deal with the new guy. What a fucking cunt. Yeah, yeah, you wear a badge. Good on you, kid.

PHJF wrote on Nov 21, 2013, 17:04:Ohio used DUI before switching a number of years ago to OVI: Operating a Vehicle while Impaired. OVI is all-inclusive. You can be arrested for OVI'ing on a bicycle. It is also illegal to be in possession of keys to and intoxicated in a parked car while in the driver's seat.

Ah, okay. To be honest, I have no problem with DUI/OVI or whatever stops. Those genuinely have to do with safety, mine included.

It's the other stops that are horseshit. And in the 10 years that I've lived here, I've twice gotten stopped for insurance-checks, once for god knows what reason as they just stopped me, took a look inside, and moved me on (I guess they were hunting someone), and never for a DUI check.

Wow. Checkpoints are illegal in all forms here, unless there is a manhunt. No insurance is actually pretty rampant. It especially sucks in a state like Minnesota which is a "no fault" state. Everyone is required to have insurance. South Dakota doesn't REQUIRE insurance, but if you get in an accident, and it is your fault, you could lose everything you own. But, if you are a turd and don't have a penny to your name, then who cares right!? Other person gets screwed.

Creston, I would have retained a civil attorney in that situation (depending how bad the wreck was).

/edit: ugh, we get it Creston, you never do anything wrong and you hate cops and you have been wronged by them. Geez.

It's not about taking it to a trial. How ruined is your day now that you had to spend the night in a holding cell or had a pile of tickets dropped in your lap that you now have to take the time to fight or pay for?

Where is this pile of tickets coming from? Again, if you inform a cop of your rights, what exactly is he going to write you up for? Him getting pissed off is not a valid reason for writing me a ticket. If I'm abusing him, threatening him or things like that, sure. If you politely hand him something like the aforementioned card along with your driver's license, what exactly are you doing that you think is against the law?

Cops don't have the authority to just randomly fucking write tickets and detain people.

PHJF wrote on Nov 21, 2013, 17:04:Ohio used DUI before switching a number of years ago to OVI: Operating a Vehicle while Impaired. OVI is all-inclusive. You can be arrested for OVI'ing on a bicycle. It is also illegal to be in possession of keys to and intoxicated in a parked car while in the driver's seat.

Ah, okay. To be honest, I have no problem with DUI/OVI or whatever stops. Those genuinely have to do with safety, mine included.

It's the other stops that are horseshit. And in the 10 years that I've lived here, I've twice gotten stopped for insurance-checks, once for god knows what reason as they just stopped me, took a look inside, and moved me on (I guess they were hunting someone), and never for a DUI check.

It's not about taking it to a trial. How ruined is your day now that you had to spend the night in a holding cell or had a pile of tickets dropped in your lap that you now have to take the time to fight or pay for?

Verno wrote on Nov 21, 2013, 15:57:Know your rights and exercise them but also understand that cops are human beings too. Most interactions I've had with police have been friendly because that's how I act, like they're another person just doing a job instead of some authoritarian figure out to get me.

The sad thing is that more and more they're turning into the latter, rather than the former.

eh, I wholeheartedly disagree. Cops are nicer, more professional, less likely to kick your ass, etc etc etc than ever before. Go talk to an old time copper....

It's not the old-timers that I see on the road here anymore. It's the guys in their 20s who apparently get a hard-on for being a cop. The Sheriff in my county retired last year, and got replaced by one of his newest deputies, and the guy is a total fucking asshole.

Well, if it is like 99% of the departments I am familiar with, the old timers are on break for 8-12 hours a day, will MAYBE take their calls, and are most likely to be found in a parking lot reading a paper or at the office doing nothing.

Out of sight out of mind is probably why you don't see them....

Isn't the Sheriff a position that is an election where you are? Didn't your populace choose him?

xXBatmanXx wrote on Nov 21, 2013, 17:01:Can't speak for other states, but in Minnesota driving without insurance is pretty much the same as a DWI. When people call and tell me that they later found out the other driver doesn't have insurance, I update my report and make sure a copy goes to the city/county attorney for charging.

Yep. And here they didn't give a shit. So why have these dumb-ass "let's check and see if people are driving without insurance" checkpoints at 11pm?

Sorry you had that interaction, but once the incident is over, a cop rarely has anything to do with it.

Is driving without insurance against the law? If so, why does the cop ignore my attempts to inform him that someone broke the law, and I have actual, physical proof of it?

I would notify MY insurance company of the situation, then either retain a civil attorney to go after them, or work with city/county attorney for restitution.

I did both. Zero result.

Just throwing your hands up in the air in frustation is no one's fault but your own. Crashes are civil issues, usually not criminal issues.

Except the guy broke the law. (twice, actually, because he made an illegal turn, but that's not here or there.)

Ohio used DUI before switching a number of years ago to OVI: Operating a Vehicle while Impaired. OVI is all-inclusive. You can be arrested for OVI'ing on a bicycle. It is also illegal to be in possession of keys to and intoxicated in a parked car while in the driver's seat.