mattarl wrote: Mr. Dolan getting questioned about the motive of his song? I don't get it.

Because HercORama is still salty about the title that Dolan gave him a few years ago.

Wed Jul 08, 2009 4:11 pm

Confidential

Joined: 23 Jan 2004
Posts: 2040

I will forward this to some friends who are likely to act, or will be interested and who would know about Bhopal but not SFR. Given the political climate surrounding "ecoterror" legislation, publishing these addresses is actually a risky move. Probably a good idea to keep the murder speak here to a minimum.

Wed Jul 08, 2009 4:42 pm

marshall84

Joined: 15 Jul 2002
Posts: 2154
Location: KS

b. dolan wrote:

marshall84 wrote: Now, if Dolan wants to prevent further events like the Bhopal disaster, he should probably stick to writing Knowmore articles. If an individual wants to advance a political agenda, they would almost surely have more success by running for office, becoming a community organizer, becoming a journalist, joining a union, starting a business, etc. than by writing songs.

I agree with the spirit of what you're saying. But jesus does it aggravate me when people tell me what i should stick to and how I should spend my time.

Knowmore will have covered the Global fortune 500 by January. Are you helping with that? If so, thanks. If not, it's still going to get done. And this song was done too. My nuts are in many baskets.

Yeah, my injunction to "stick to Knowmore articles" was rhetorical. It's obvious that you have aesthetic considerations outside of a political project. I'm not really talking about you, just the Artist in general. It was just convenient to use you as an example. You do your thing, man. No one could ask you to do more than you do. I'm not critiquing your life.

Wed Jul 08, 2009 5:07 pm

marshall84

Joined: 15 Jul 2002
Posts: 2154
Location: KS

futuristxen wrote:

marshall84 wrote:

Tupac and Biggie weren't kill by rap songs; they were victims of gang violence.

They were the victim of a climate they made through their art. So real and vivid were their words, that people believed the legitimacy of them. By all indications Biggie and Tupac were actually a lot more friendly than their disses might indicate. But they hit a nerve in the East Coast-West Coast thing, which was exacerbated by a combination of the powerfulness of what they were saying and the pre-existing condition they manipulated through their art.

I'm very suprised how naive you're being toward the role words can have.

We're a country built upon rhetoric and the power of a good speech.

Did you see the Wire? Sheeeiiiiiiiit.

How many things do you own that you don't need, but you were made to think you needed because of someone's art mindfuck?

Richard Nixon wasn't deposed by a hail of gunfire. It was words shifted around some truths and maybe even half truths.

Some writer shifted the entire Orlando Magic fanbase against Shaq when he was a free agent, so he ended up with the Lakers winning championships.

How many players are "soft"?

Words create perceptions.

And the perception one gets from this song is a very strong one, I highly doubt that anyone who listens to it is going to forget who Warren Anderson is. He's not going to be hidden anymore, at least from the people who read this song.

And you mentioned knowmore articles, this was like a knowmore entry in rap form. This is kind of what knowmore is about. And that's another side to this song you might be missing, because the people who this song pulls in, are 1) going to want to find out more about B. and 2) knowmore is a really good outlet for when you feel rather helpless against this kind of thing.

Oh and also, it's just a dope song. The aggression and menace of it is in the spirit of the best of hiphop.

Nature of the Threat is a decent comparison to this type of song, in that no matter what you believe or don't believe, the song is powerful enough that you want to believe what it says. Like how could you listen to something like this, and have your first thought be "I want to oppose this energy?" I mean I know we've got like two people in this entire message board, and one of them at least has a pre-existing condition against B. (probably based around something B. wrote or said even).

In regard to Tupac and Biggie, I think the fact that they were writers/speakers is not an essential factor in their deaths. The essential reasons were their proximity to gang violence/activity and their high profile. If they were famous athletes, they would have similarly likely to have been shot.

If I may quote myself: "My argument is not that words do not have power, but that some words are much more powerful than others. And some actions are more powerful still." I agree that words have power. Words can do great things, more than actions can in certain situations. My point is that that a journalistic report may be more effective at achieving a specific goal (e.g. informing the public of the details of a government policy) than a song. In other cases (maybe inspiring a sense of outrage?), a song would probably be more effective than a report. The question I raised is one of efficacy: is a song a good way of preventing industrial disasters? My answer is 'no.' I suppose that is a stupid question, though. I don't think Dolan's (or anyone's) reasons for writing songs are as one-dimensional as that.

Wed Jul 08, 2009 5:39 pm

Charlie Foxtrot

Joined: 23 Jan 2008
Posts: 1379
Location: Rochester, NY

Is there a big market for Bhopal Chemical disaster stories? I mean, no magazine that reaches an audience that doesn't already know about it (in other words, writing about it in Adbusters really won't do shit) is really going to be interested in writing about the killing of some brown people thousands of miles away 20 years ago. That shit doesn't sell magazines.

Wed Jul 08, 2009 5:49 pm

Confidential

Joined: 23 Jan 2004
Posts: 2040

Not sure about magazine sales but in the academic feilds of environmental politics and environmental ethics there is great concern for Bhopal. The feild of postcolonialism is concerned with why still no one gives a shit about brown people thousands of miles away.