Into the Gray

Neuroscience Explanations For ‘Spiritual’ Experiences – Part 2

Something Else To Think About

“A man in his late 20s with paranoid schizophrenia explained during a neurological evaluation that he could read minds and that for years he had heard voices revealing things about friends and strangers alike. He believed he was selected by God to provide guidance for mankind. Antipsychotic medications prescribed by his psychiatrists diminished these abilities and reduced the voices, and therefore he would not take them.

He asked, “How do you know the voices aren’t real?” “How do you know I am not The Messiah?” He affirmed, “God and angels talked to people in the Bible.

“The religiosity of the epileptic has been recognized since the time of Esquirol and Morel. These, later French workers, have sought to explain the epileptics religiosity as being the result of his disability, social isolation and his enhanced need for the consolation of religion. A specific conversion experience after a fit was reported by Howden. The patient believed that he was in Heaven. He would appear to have been depersonalized, as it took three days for his body to be reunited with his soul. He maintained that God had sent it to him as a means of conversion, that he was now a new man, and had never before known what true peace was.

“If an epileptic seizure is focused in a particular sweet spot in the temporal lobe, a person won´t have motor seizures, but instead something more subtle. The effect is something like a cognitive seizure, marked by changes of personality, hyperreligiosity (an obsession with religion and feelings of religious certainity), hypergraphia (extensive writing on a subject, usually about religion), the false sense of an external presence, and, often, the hearing voices that are attributed to a god. Some fraction of history´s prophets, martyrs, and leaders appear to have had temporal lobe epilepsy.

Hi Victoria,
Always great to see your research and learn more. Crazy stuff I know nothing about…your brain must be spinning! I know that mine is!
I hope you are doing well, moving toward your dream and reaching who you want (and need) to reach. As for me, I’m sitting here in the corner quietly sending you good vibes and happy thoughts. xo sister

Hey Michelle, thank you for your thoughtful comment. I love good vibes and happy thoughts. Yes, my brain is always spinning, lol. It’s not easy sharing this research, and sometimes I get hate mail, but this information has saved lives and can help to prevent further brain damage for those who have been misdiagnosed or not diagnosed. As the research shows, some neurological disorders may have no other symptoms except those of a religious nature.

Good grief! I’ve been thinking about how religious belief, particularly very intense religious belief, was a form of mental illness. Basically that you’d have to really be crazy to believe most of the stuff these religions take straightfaced and seriously. But this makes so much more sense!

“Few people (including neurologists) understand that seizures are hugely diverse in their causes and treatment. If improperly diagnosed, patients may fail to get effective new treatments based on brain research.

Early and effective treatment is essential, as are efforts to avoid situations that can produce the brain damage that causes seizures in the ﬁrst place.”

“The statistics are stark and sobering— and for the uninitiated (which is to say most of us), startling. Epilepsy in America is as common as breast cancer, and takes as many lives. One in 10 people will suffer a seizure in their lifetime. There are 200,000 new cases each year (in America).

There is also a rise expected in the incidence of epilepsy among the veterans of the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq who have sustained traumatic head injuries. Yet public and private funding for research lag far behind other neurological afflictions, at $35 a patient (compared, for instance, with $129 for Alzheimer’s and $280 for multiple sclerosis). It is time to remedy that gap, and to raise epilepsy to the front ranks of public and medical concern.”

Victoria – This is really awesome and fascinating stuff. Exactly the kind of things I was hoping to find out more about when I started blogging. And I’m glad you posted the videos because I tend to learn more from interactive media.

I’ve always been interested with trying to understand these “mystical” experiences that people have told me about. Richard Carrier (vocal atheist who I’m sure you have heard of) wrote in one of his books of an experience he had while he was a Taoist in his younger years. And it was exactly like what Ramachandran said in the first video: “a feeling of oneness and connectedness with the entire cosmos”. Like I wrote on one of your other posts, I’ve never had anything at all like a mystical experience but I’ve always been very curious about them. There also seems to be some connection between these experiences and morality, but sometimes it seems to be a bit of a distorted sense of reality – the part in the second video where the patient described seeing ethnic cleansing as somehow good for humanity was a bit disturbing.

Actually, I have a question to ask you – while some of these experiences do seem quite unhealthy, do you think any of these kinds of experiences could possibly be healthy? For example that experience you had that you expressed as “complete silence in your mind” – I could see some benefits to something like that. What are your thoughts?

“Actually, I have a question to ask you – while some of these experiences do seem quite unhealthy, do you think any of these kinds of experiences could possibly be healthy? For example that experience you had that you expressed as “complete silence in your mind” – I could see some benefits to something like that. What are your thoughts?”

Howie, great question. Yes, I do think these kinds of experiences can be healthy. But not so much in a traditional religious climate. Research shows that meditation can be quite beneficial as it rewires the brain. We live in a fear-oriented culture which can cause increased gray matter volume in the right amygdala (negative emotions, fear, anxiety, aggression) and also lead to depression. When I speak of meditation, I am not so much referring to traditional methods as much as I am speaking of becoming aware of our thoughts. Our thoughts wire our brain. Research shows that the average person speaks to themselves at the rate of 300 to 1000 words per minute. Let that sink in. Now — if those thoughts are negative, imagine what that’s doing to our perception of reality?

On the other hand — when I experienced an interhemispheric intrustion, my right amydala pretty much shut down, and I had no fear. That is not advantageous. To live in total bliss could get you killed. 😉

But people who’ve had this experience (if they were/are religious) will nearly always associate it with a god experience. So in answering your question about my experience, I don’t think interhemispheric intrustion is advantageous given the tribal religious climate we live in. I feel fortunate that I had come out from the religious umbrella at the time it happened.

But what I experienced and what my late husband experienced were unrelated. He had seizures caused by a brain injury he sustained, and had a sudden religious conversion as noted in the post. Because he was not properly diagnosed in time, the seizures caused kindling, just like it was described in the video. This led to further brain damage and a reinforcing of his religious experiences. Had he been properly diagnosed, he’d be alive today. This is why I post this research — because people automatically assume that if they have a religious experience that it must be from god, and they will most likely never see a medical professional.

“Our thoughts wire our brain. Research shows that the average person speaks to themselves at the rate of 300 to 1000 words per minute. Let that sink in. Now — if those thoughts are negative, imagine what that’s doing to our perception of reality?”

Victoria – I wanted to thank you for answering my question. I’ve been thinking some about your comment during the day before replying – yes, thinking about it – which is kind of why I asked the question actually. Turning off (or “rewiring”) the thoughts in my brain has been a huge chore for me for many years so I can totally relate to what you’ve written here. I won’t say much more on that except thank you for the reminder – I needed it.

Yeah, that’s too bad that total bliss isn’t the practical way to go. Perhaps that’s why so many have dreamed up an afterlife where that bliss can be experienced. Of course then they won’t have freewill which also seems to be so important to them. Oh well. 🙂

You’ve got a lot of really good information that totally relates to my interests in trying to make sense of “religious experience” and you’ve provided ample links for further study. Thanks for taking the time to write this all out.

“There also seems to be some connection between these experiences and morality, but sometimes it seems to be a bit of a distorted sense of reality – the part in the second video where the patient described seeing ethnic cleansing as somehow good for humanity was a bit disturbing.”

Howie, I’m so glad you pointed that out, because you see this very behavior in the bible. A justification of ethnic cleansing or genocide. You can clearly see that he was distraught that he felt that way. An yet on the other side of the coin, he was quite compassionate and caring, as his father noted. After each seizure all he wanted to do was talk philosophy.

His seizures were induced by consuming too much alcohol. This appears to be what happened to GW Bush. He went on a drunken binge on his 40th birthday and then had a ‘spiritual awakening’ and started attending bible study with Billy Graham, who’s a fundamentalist. I remember reading about Billy Graham at the time he had a sudden religious conversion, which most likely followed a seizure. After that, he became very religious and was on a mission for god. Same thing happened to my husband. He had a seizure, followed by a sudden religious conversion, and believed god had called him. He had been agnostic before that. I remember so clearly the day he had that sudden religious conversion. After that, he was never the same. His personality changed dramatically and he became obsessed with reading the bible.

“you see this very behavior in the bible. A justification of ethnic cleansing or genocide.”

I was thinking the same exact thing when I wrote my comment above. One of the biggest problems I have with the bible. And it’s not just one verse – it’s splattered all over the bible. Complete annihilation of all that breathes – and in I Samuel 15:3 children and infants are even specifically mentioned. Some atrocious stuff.

What happened to your husband is very sad, and I’m speechless. What you are doing here will help others Victoria, and it’s very important.

” One of the biggest problems I have with the bible. And it’s not just one verse – it’s splattered all over the bible.”

Exactly, Howie, and as you know, it’s written in Revelation that Jesus is coming back and there will be a blood bath against unbelievers or those that believed in the wrong god(s). So much so that it states in Rev. 19 that the birds will gorged on the flesh. Having come to understand how the brain can go haywire has helped to make sense of the immoral/antisocial behaviors of many humans and religions. Sometimes I have been raked over the coals by believers who thought I was trying to destroy their faith — but that wasn’t my intention. If people justify such atrocities in the name of their god, then they need to do some serious self-reflection or get a thorough neurological evaluation. It goes against are intrinsic (empathic) nature to justify such atrocities.

I’ve also received very encouraging emails over the last several years where people have written me and told me they finally found what was wrong with them after misdiagnosis after misdiagnosis. They were having non-convulsive seizures, such as what Dr. Eagleman mentioned in my post. Some had had mini-strokes that affected their perception of reality to the point that they tried to kill their own family members and themselves. They first thought they had been called by god and became hyperreligious. So, no, I don’t share because I want to destroy someones faith. I share because I care and hope to spread awareness, especially because the research is seriously underfunded and talking about this is taboo.

Howie, thank you so much for your uplifting comments and feedback. 🙂 It encourages me and others to keep spreading awareness and sharing information that is generally not in the mainstream, and for obvious reasons.

Assuming the Paul story to be true, I can see something like that as having happened to him. But assuming at least part of the Jesus story to be true, I don’t see that so much in him, as I do the pressure of growing up in a culture that values sexual “purity,” and in a community in which it may have been common knowledge that his mother’s husband was not his father, possibly even having been frequently and accusingly reminded of that, it would be easy to see how a young boy might delude himself into believing that his tribe’s god was his father, to do otherwise, would be to believe ill of his mother. Even the residents of his home town of Nazareth said he was insane, prompting the whole, “A prophet is not without honor, save in his own land” speech.

Arch, that’s a fascinating assessment and certainly plausible. I was also thinking about the messiah complex disorder which is a state of mind in which an individual holds a belief that they are, or are destined to become, a savior. Symptoms of the disorder closely resemble those found in individuals suffering from grandiose delusions or delusions of grandeur. The studies show that this form of delusional belief is most often reported in patients suffering from bipolar disorder and schizophrenia. I’m inclined to believe that if his behavior wasn’t embellished, like so much of the gospels were, it is quite possible that his fasting 40 days (starvation) exacerbated any possible neurological disorder he may have had. Here’s what’s noted in the Journal of Neuropsychiatry and Clinical Neurosciences — The Role of Psychiatric Disorders in Religious History Considered linked in the post:

“Jesus is the foundation figure of Christianity, who is thought to have lived between 7–2 BCE and 26–36 CE. The New Testament recalls Jesus as having experienced and shown behavior closely resembling delusions, referential thinking (see Figure 3), paranoid-type thought content, and hyperreligiosity (see Table 1). He also did not appear to have signs or symptoms of disorganization, negative psychiatric symptoms, cognitive impairment, or debilitating mood disorder symptoms. NT accounts about Jesus mention no infirmity. In terms of potential causes of perceptual and behavioral changes, it might be asked whether starvation and metabolic derangements were present. The hallucinatory-like experiences that Jesus had in the desert while he fasted for 40 days (Luke 4:1–13) may have been induced by starvation and metabolic derangements.

Arguing against these as explanations for all of his experiences would be that he had mystical or revelation experiences preceding his fasting in the desert and then during the period afterward. During these periods, there is no suggestion of starvation or metabolic derangement. If anything, the stories about Jesus and his followers suggest that they ate relatively well, as compared with the followers of his contemporary, John the Baptist (Luke 7:33–34). Epilepsy-associated psychotic symptoms are possible, but Jesus is not recounted as having any of the previously-mentioned common hallmarks of epilepsy. A decline in his occupational and social functioning cannot be established because of a lack of sufficient information. His experiences appear to have occurred over the course of at least the year before his death. The absence of physical maladies or apparent epilepsy leaves primary psychiatric etiologies as more plausible. As seen with the previous cases, Jesus’ experiences can be potentially conceptualized within the framework of PS or psychosis NOS. Other reasonable possibilities might include bipolar and schizoaffective disorders.”

“the stories about Jesus and his followers suggest that they ate relatively well”
Not always, if we can believe the passage where he and his followers were rebuked by the Pharisees, for going through a wheatfield and eating wheat grains on the Sabbath – did you ever eat wheat? Not all it’s cracked up to be.

Which makes me wonder why they had to eat wheat grains, when JC was able to feed five thousand with just a couple of fish and a loaf or so of bread. How hard could it be to ding up a Big Mac or two, maybe a Happy Meal with a toy inside?

Thank you thank you over the years bits of very important info has crossed my path what you have presented here is a personal lifelong struggle to understand myself where my neurological imbalances and my religious beliefs coincided its been a long journey the end results are…Iam not religious and I have a diagnosed manic depression which I take a anti seizure medicine for,depokote, it works ,which leads me to believe I did and do have seizures though that’s not my diagnoses. Iam unable financially to be diagnosed otherwise

Natalie, it’s great to see you again. Thank you so much for sharing about your own circumstances. I am happy to read that you were able to get a diagnoses that afforded you medicine to help with your seizures, but disappointed to read that you are not financially able to get a comprehensive neurological evaluation. Welcome to America, right? I wasn’t quite sure from your comment if you had religious experiences before you started taking Depakote? I’m incline to believe you’re right about having a seizure disorder. They misdiagnosed my husband because his TLE symptoms were of a religious nature. That was over two decades ago when they hardly knew anything about TLE, and still today, neurologists are not well educated because there is little funding for research, unfortunately. Just get on the epilepsy forums and this is a common theme you read among those who have seizures. If the doctors can’t catch it on an EEG when you visit, then they tend to misdiagnose or give you no diagnosis. It’s the most common neurological disorder, and the least funded. Sadly, a big part of that has been due to the stigma associated with seizures, much of it being propagated by religion.

Also, if and when you get in a position to get an evaluation, I highly recommend going to an epilepsy clinic. You will need a referral from your doctor, but take hold of the reigns and insist on the referral. You have a far greater chance of getting a proper diagnosis. The Dana Foundation has a comprehensive list of doctors throughout the U.S. who specialize in this. They are a private philanthropic organization committed to advancing brain research and to educating the public in a responsible manner about research’s potential to develop a better understanding of the brain and its functions; to speed the discovery of treatments for brain disorders; and to combat the stigma of brain disorders through education. If you contact them, they might be able to find a specialist in your area who is a member of the Dana Foundation and possibly help you get the proper diagnosis. You also might qualify as a research patient and get the evaluation you need without charge. I recommended a gentleman who had been misdiagnosed 5 times. He and his wife were at wits end when they contacted me. He was from Texas and he got in contact with a doctor from the Dana Foundation list of doctors and was finally properly diagnosed. They did a 72 hour ambulatory EEG on him. He was prone to having seizures when he was stressed and/or around a lot of noise or bright lights, i.e., places like Wal-Mart. So they wired him up and sent him home. Here’s the contact information. http://www.dana.org/

What a great collection and distillation of information.
I wonder if you have come across anything about autistic individuals. If my understanding is correct, autistic individuals are much less like to be religious than their neurotypical peers. Given that the thinking is that autism is simply a different brain setup, could autism be the other side of the neurological coin when it comes to belief?

Madalyn, that’s my understanding, too. I will look for a fascinating and very encouraging documentary about autism and how beneficial neurofeedback has been. It helps to normalize brainwaves, and chemical synapses. I was amazed when I watched this. I hope I can find it. It’s been a couple of years since I watched it. Great to see you. ❤

Excellent post as usual Victoria and so fascinating! I find it strange that I never had this ‘God’ speaking to me when I was religious. I believed in Angels and everything else and had lots of faith. It just shows me I was never that ‘special’ then. Seems this ‘God’ has his favourites then. 😆 Good thing I stopped believing. I don’t think I would enjoy hearing voices. I do talk to myself though. Some say it’s when you start answering yourself that you have to start worrying. Luckily I forget what I said to myself so quick, I don’t have time to answer myself. hahahaha

I love reading your posts and reading more about how the brain works and what makes it work. Sometimes I wish I could take mine out and ask it a few questions as well – just so I can understand myself more. 😛

Me neither, Sonel. Goodness know I spent 40+ years hoping to be ‘special’. All that time I thought something was wrong with me. If neurological studies show that we speak 300 to 1000 words to ourselves every minute (in our head), I’m pretty sure I know where those voices are coming from.

*Big hug back* and thank you for your thoughtful words. I was nervous doing this post as I didn’t want to stigmatize those who sincerely believe they are ‘special’, hear the voices, and believe they are on a mission from their god of choice.

This reminds me of an anecdote of actual events in the museum I work in. A man came in all dressed up for work in overalls. He had a toolbox with him and as there was a repair going on in the old building nobody might have even noticed anything “special” exept that he bought a ticket. When asked what was he going to do with the tools, he replied that a god had told him to come and fix the electricity of the museum. He was then apprehended and sent to recieve some treatment in the hospital, but how do we know if he actually commanded by a god to do his bidding, or not? I honestly do not see how the epiphany and revelation given to this man was in any way different from the ancient ones human cultures traditionally revere as truths.

C. S. Lewis said that Jesus was not a great moral teacher, rather that he was either the son of a god as he claimed to be, or on the level of a man who claims to be a “poached egg”. But I think that is a false dichtomy. There is the third option, that Jesus was just a charismatic mediocre moral teacher and that he was wrong. The reasons for his conclusions of him being an actual flesh and blood son of a god are his own. We have no method to track back on them, but it could have been that he had a psychological crisis, with his identity, or that his words have been “remembered” a bit wrong in order to embellish them. Those are both much more natural and therefore more likelier explanations, if we even assume such a man can be traced in history from behind the myth.

Then there is the problem of the term son O’god. What does it mean to modern day Christians may be completely different of how Jesus or Yeshua, if you will, himself understood it as in Jewish tradition there were many sons of their god. Some were mighty entities like the devil and angels, but sometimes it only meant a man who obidiently followed the commandments in the Mosaic law. It seems the modern (as well as medieval) understanding of this concept are closer to ancient Egyptian, Hellenistic and Roman ideas about a flesh and blood son, like Osiris, Heracles/Hercules, or even Alexander the Great. These were not unknown to the population of Iudea and some may have been more familiar to even some of the Jews in the area, than the Jewish tradition. The pharisees might have understood Yeshua in a completely different meaning from that of the poor uneducated fishermen and goatherders.

“I honestly do not see how the epiphany and revelation given to this man was in any way different from the ancient ones human cultures traditionally revere as truths.”

My thoughts exactly. Given what we know now about sudden religious experiences, the fact that neurological disorders involving religious hallucinations are quite common today, I would wager due to the barbaric conditions during the Bronze and Iron ages, that brain injuries and mental disorders were much more common then. So how do religious folks today discern? IMO, they are very trusting.

“C. S. Lewis said that Jesus was not a great moral teacher, rather that he was either the son of a god as he claimed to be, or on the level of a man who claims to be a “poached egg”. But I think that is a false dichtomy. There is the third option, that Jesus was just a charismatic mediocre moral teacher and that he was wrong. The reasons for his conclusions of him being an actual flesh and blood son of a god are his own. We have no method to track back on them, but it could have been that he had a psychological crisis, with his identity, or that his words have been “remembered” a bit wrong in order to embellish them. Those are both much more natural and therefore more likelier explanations, if we even assume such a man can be traced in history from behind the myth.”

I concur on all points.

“Then there is the problem of the term son O’god. What does it mean to modern day Christians may be completely different of how Jesus or Yeshua, if you will, himself understood it as in Jewish tradition there were many sons of their god. Some were mighty entities like the devil and angels, but sometimes it only meant a man who obidiently followed the commandments in the Mosaic law. It seems the modern (as well as medieval) understanding of this concept are closer to ancient Egyptian, Hellenistic and Roman ideas about a flesh and blood son, like Osiris, Heracles/Hercules, or even Alexander the Great.”

Well said. Rautakyy, thanks for dropping by and sharing your thoughts. I always enjoy reading your in-depth comments. You are one of the wisest and well spoken people I’ve met on WP.

But I urge you to start by looking at Victoria’s videos in her brilliant blog post above.

BTW, don’t miss this wonderful video by world famous neuroscientist Vilayanur Ramachandran: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PFJPtVRlI64 . In this video Professor Ramachandran tells his audience about one of his patients, a man who after split-brain surgery ended up with one brain hemisphere being atheistic and the other one theistic. Professor Ramachandran wonders, and speculates: Where will that man end up? In Heaven or Hell? Maybe his soul will have to be one week in Heaven and then move to Hell to stay there for one week? A switch repeated over and over again. In eternity. What do you think thereof? I’m curious to know.