You want to play rough and send barbs my way for "my behavior" (whatever the hell that means on an open Internet forum)...then you want to be treated like a lady?

Old, tired, double standard hogwash. It has no place here. If you or any other "delicate flower" wants to mix it up and get into pissing contests with the men here, you can't act all offended when you get some on you.

And as far as "Louis the Gentlemen" goes, get a clue, Pammy: he's complained in the past about me and my posts, so all he is doing now is using you and fuzzy to try and irritate me. A REAL gentlemen would never use a lady like that, and you know it.

I don't know anything of the sort. I have never been called anything but a lady except here on this forum.

I agree Dan. But sometimes, I wonder, by the way they draw you in and then turn, if its substance or psychology. I decided to refuse to be drawn in any longer. When I hear something that the horsemen should know, after it is confirmed, I'll sing...but otherwise, I've decided that I have enough on my plate but to be attacked by these two.

One thing is for sure...I have met some very good, honest, caring horsemen on here. Not just from Chicago, but from KY and FP as well, and am grateful that I have.

Pammy he's drunk and wants to argue and fight he is upset he can't bully you and because you have made your point with your class and style in that drunks words" Thanks for playing"He is quite amusing ,and pathetic who brings nothing but sarcastic cutting belittling of posters luvs to be a pompasisazzs .I m sure he squats to pee .

Where do you get all this drinking stuff from? Did you just assume that because he is challenging what you say, that he is a drunk! Explain to the forum how you know HV is a drunk when posting on forums. It is these kinds of claims that kill anything that you want to say. Keep to the idea that you like horses and feel sorry for people having troubles with their horses. That is your contribution to this thread which you have posted many times.

Dan I have been called acused many times of being slushed and drunk by both theses posters Hv and HBT and to be fair you never had a problem with them acusing me of that now did you and never once made noted that anything in their post was lost.

The reason my opinion is that Hv drinks he has made post of it in the past.He also comes out guns blazing in the evening to be sour caustic and down right rude to posters out of the blue telling them what idiots they are and trying to goad them into an altercation. He has many post trying to cut Pam and many other posters then thinks he's real cute for it.As I've told you I be been around alot of drinkers and this guys posting is the exact attitude I've witness first hand . Now those are my opinions but he has some sort of serious problem which in my opinion is alcohol induced!

So if you think it's normal for a guy in the evening always wanting to goad people as a normal behavior that's up to you. I just don't share that opinion.But why is it when any one disagrees with him or something he perceives as a weakness he post negativity about them like flies on chit?

Because that is what you are all Class and a real and True Lady!Pammy he's drunk and wants to argue and fight he is upset he can't bully you and because you have made your point with your class and style in that drunks words" Thanks for playing"He is quite amusing ,and pathetic who brings nothing but sarcastic cutting belittling of posters luvs to be a pompasisazzs .I m sure he squats to pee .

What is boldfaced is all you have to say in this post. The rest is made up and spiteful.

I have not met HV, although I think I know his real name. What I do know is he is a south-sider of Chicago which means if you say something strange, you had better be ready to back it up or take it back. This is sort of the opposite of laid-back California or California cool. That is part of this communication problem.

I have met Terry. He is an intellectual with deep passions and feelings about horse racing that he will defend infinitely. That is all I better say about him as he does not care for people to speak for him.

They are both good people and know way more about the industry and horses than you believe they know. I hope this explains things and stops the verbal mud-slinging. If you want to make a contribution, then think about it and compose it carefully. That gains you respect. Believe me, I have learned this lesson the hard way.

I agree Dan. But sometimes, I wonder, by the way they draw you in and then turn, if its substance or psychology. I decided to refuse to be drawn in any longer. When I hear something that the horsemen should know, after it is confirmed, I'll sing...but otherwise, I've decided that I have enough on my plate but to be attacked by these two.

You personally aren't being "attacked". The claims you make on the forum are being questioned. It has nothing to do with you personally. I'm sure you're a very nice person.

You personally aren't being "attacked". The claims you make on the forum are being questioned. It has nothing to do with you personally. I'm sure you're a very nice person.

Oh really that's why you called her a liar and bull shit?You are the attacker! Oh and let's not forget the excoriating of the dichotomy line ?You might have as well called her Sybal but that's okay cause it's Your opinion!And oh it's not an attack?It's your way of creating balance terry how's that work?

Oh and the name calling Internet goof real nice touch for some one being sensitive too a horrendous situation ! Pretty dang mean and hurtfull and a bully!

It's not widly believed its a viscous slander you started over being called out over the word ***$you were calling posters you alpha mare! It's was your little circle!Bullying had nothing to do with it, as then and now you call some one a bully when they disagree with your post or a drunk you started this with me during Rachel Alexander and You were being the bully over a dis agreement about Zenyatta !

I don't know anything of the sort. I have never been called anything but a lady except here on this forum.

Perhaps you always act like a lady everywhere else.

I can only speak to your behavior here...and it's not always "ladylike", which is fine. It's not required. Seriously. Want to be one of the boys, go ahead. Drink, smoke, swear, call names, hurl insults, spit on the floor if you want. Doesn't bother me, or most men I know.

Once you make the decision to engage in mud-slinging, though -- as you have -- the "lady" designation is pretty much out the window. Can't have it both ways...and you can't get it back.

Not sure if you read my multiple exhausting posts on how it must be difficult to be THE Voice of reason day in and day out. I can only surmise the difficulty it requires each and every day to assume this task. One can be thankful, as in your case, for the advancement of psychopharmacological agents for daily use. Keep up the ENDLESS good work!

Same thing you have written before, plus a new "big word" (ouch, that had to hurt!) from you.

2 - It's clear to me they love the sport in general. I believe both own horses and that in of itself helps the game because without owners we have no sport. Owning horses is a meaningful action, much more so than being an internet wise ass.

Neither actually owns horses now, to my knowledge...but even if they did, so what? LOTS of people own horses, and yet the sport is in severe decline.

I fail to see any huge benefit to the sport from any one person owning a horse or two; I contribute far more to the game as a mid-level bettor than anyone with a couple of modest platers.

3 - They seem to roll with the punches and those that can't....and I've trained for some owners who can't....don't last long or become very bitter people.

So...all we have to do to save horse racing is find more owners who can "roll with the punches"? Are you f*cking serious?

(I'm sure you are, for, in trainer-speak, an owner who can "roll with the punches" is someone who can listen to yet another reason why they didn't win today, write another check to you with a dumb smile on their mug, and listen to "we'll get 'em next time" from you (again). Face it, those days are LOOOONG gone!)

I think you should work for the NTRA, pal. I have to give you credit: your suggestions are at least as effective as anything they have ever come up with...which is the ultimate indication of just how screwed this sport really is.

I told you he was using you to try to frost my ass. Don't listen to me, what do I know?

"Louie the Gentleman"...priceless!

You need to get a life. I've never seen someone so upset that another person doesn't bow down to them on an internet forum. My original post complimented two fans and made no mention of you. But of course being the child you are you cried to mommy about it because I didn't compliment you as well.

In a way I feel sorry for you that you need to be complimented by strangers on the internet but in another way I laugh at you because an internet forum HAS to be your domain.

You need to get a life. I've never seen someone so upset that another person doesn't bow down to them on an internet forum. My original post complimented two fans and made no mention of you. But of course being the child you are you cried to mommy about it because I didn't compliment you as well.

In a way I feel sorry for you that you need to be complimented by strangers on the internet but in another way I laugh at you because an internet forum HAS to be your domain.

Very nicely done LW .He doesn't know who or what you are but accuses you of being unethical and basically Pammy and I for being owners right out the gate!You can really see the Midwest male attitude showing threw towards women.You know the one I'm talking about?Women belong in the kitchen barefooted and pregnant and have no sense of buisness ,and deserve to be abused in a mans world or office as they perceive it!God the poor dear to be married to him.

You need to get a life. I've never seen someone so upset that another person doesn't bow down to them on an internet forum. My original post complimented two fans and made no mention of you. But of course being the child you are you cried to mommy about it because I didn't compliment you as well.

False, on many counts.

You said Pammy and fuzzy are good for the game.

I simply asked why...and you couldn't come up with a meaningful answer.

Everything else is your wild imagination and bullshit. Stick to what is actually written.

Very nicely done LW .He doesn't know who or what you are but accuses you of being unethical and basically Pammy and I for being owners right out the gate!You can really see the Midwest male attitude showing threw towards women.You know the one I'm talking about?Women belong in the kitchen barefooted and pregnant and have no sense of buisness ,and deserve to be abused in a mans world or office as they perceive it!God the poor dear to be married to him.

I'm originally from Boston and wound up in Manitoba for a while and now I'm back on the east coast. US east coasters are known for 'tude but I can tell you that Manitoba is about 5 miles per hour compared to the 65 mph the east coast is. Some of the nicest people I've ever met though in Manitoba, I even married one!! The east coast in Canada is a culture shock to her so the US east coast is double that.

I don't think that is what she meant. Her point was if you poke the hornet's nest, you will get stung. If you don't like what they post you have 2 choices; let it go or contest their view. I think anyone who has been on this board more than 15 minutes realize that if contested, HV and Terry will defend their thought process. They seldom get personal unless provoked personally, but will defend their point as long as you contest it.

My advice - don't get personal, say your piece, and move on. Chances are you are not going to change their mind.

It's not widly believed its a viscous slander you started over being called out over the word ***$you were calling posters you alpha mare! It's was your little circle!Bullying had nothing to do with it, as then and now you call some one a bully when they disagree with your post or a drunk you started this with me during Rachel Alexander and You were being the bully over a dis agreement about Zenyatta !

WHOA FUZZY!!! SLOW DOWN GIRL! what are you talking about? 'it was me' and 'my little circle'? wtf?? who's doing the drinking?

I gave you an answer. It's not my fault it's not the exact answer you want. It's unreal how people on here get under your skin. Quite funny.

Wha? Who got under my skin?

Why do you feel compelled to make up stuff about what effect anyone else's posts are or are not having on me? Stick to what is written, please. (2nd request.)

Yeah, you gave me an answer, but it wasn't meaningful in any way; it was light & fluff, just like your original statement that somehow enthusiasm for horse racing, like that of Pammy and fuzzy, can save the game. It's a Pollyanna-ish view, at best.

Why do you feel compelled to make up stuff about what effect anyone else's posts are or are not having on me? Stick to what is written, please. (2nd request.)

Yeah, you gave me an answer, but it wasn't meaningful in any way; it was light & fluff, just like your original statement that somehow enthusiasm for horse racing, like that of Pammy and fuzzy, can save the game. It's a Pollyanna-ish view, at best.

I made up nothing. My original post was about the people named fuzzy and pammy. You got offended that you weren't mentioned. You started your negativity and crying as usual and I for one will not pander to you.

You need to get a life. I've never seen someone so upset that another person doesn't bow down to them on an internet forum. My original post complimented two fans and made no mention of you. But of course being the child you are you cried to mommy about it because I didn't compliment you as well.

In a way I feel sorry for you that you need to be complimented by strangers on the internet but in another way I laugh at you because an internet forum HAS to be your domain.

This is hilarious. Look at the posts and who is being "emotional" (after all, being upset is an emotion) and you'll realize it isn't HorseVoice.

I'm personally surprised this thread has stayed up as long as it has. Worthless off topic garbage that's nothing but blasting other posters gets zapped off the harness side on a regular basis.

Oh well, as long as they spell your name right, and all of that ...

I have to agree with you Terry- and altho i did for a few seconds, think of taking it down... i asked myself - why? it's fun....it's fun to see how riled up and bent out of shape people get when Hv posts back to them with logic....simple logic.....i know hv personally and he is a very intelligent person and a very nice man...things/people are not always as they seem on an internet forum folks......then again i'm the queen of facetious sarcasm so the barbs do not bother me, just make me use my brain to think of a better comeback .....it's almost dec, what else is there to do?

I have to agree with you Terry- and altho i did for a few seconds, think of taking it down... i asked myself - why? it's fun....it's fun to see how riled up and bent out of shape people get when Hv posts back to them with logic....simple logic.....i know hv personally and he is a very intelligent person and a very nice man...things/people are not always as they seem on an internet forum folks......then again i'm the queen of facetious sarcasm so the barbs do not bother me, just make me use my brain to think of a better comeback .....it's almost dec, what else is there to do?