Other than that, I like it for your power. I used to throw this bag, it is very good. The Orc/Starfire is a great combo. A heavy Star Orc should be very reliable for you in the "main" slot (try a red or blue one). You might test it against the Eagle for distance.

I crush the Eagle (love the Eagle for lines), but I can throw an Orc farther.

"The reasonable man adapts himself to his environment. The unreasonable man adapts his environment to himself, therefore all progress is made by unreasonable men."-George Bernard Shaw

CE stands for champion edition in my mind, i'm probably wrong though. And as far as a real beefy mid I still don't have much use for it. I had a roc for a while that I could dial in to do almost anything, then for another month it was a wasp and they weren't helping my game at all. I found I could make other discs work for those exact shots, thats why I took them out of the bag. Even though it seems like convention on this forum to have one.

we all know it as Champion plastic, but those are the abbreviations that Innova uses to differentiate types of Champ. if they used "CE Eagle" on a current order form, there would be riots in the street

So I don't really understand that, could you explain? Is a CL Orc just a standard champ plastic orc then a CE Orc is a special release? Is that right?

Oh, btw.... Elite Z breeze is a really nice one disc round toy, or also a smooth long straight put disc. My new avenger is behaving an awful lot like my 175g eagle, so I'm not super excited about it.

CE is the old champion plastic that ranged from completely opaque to not so opaque and was discontinued by innova. Just about everyone agrees it was the best plastic ever offered by innova (arguably by any company). Most CE discs are now collectors items. Some first runs going for ridiculous amounts of money.

I'll second this. The Champ Shark is alright, but you said you're getting rid of it.

Is the Orc really your understalbe driver, or just one you use for S shots and distance? Ideally, your understable driver will flip from a hyzer to a controlable turn or hold an anhzyer the whole way without fighting back to flat or fading hard at the end.