tomamundsen wrote:Does it make sense for one who is doing a ngondro with a face-to-face Nyingma lama to join the Dzogchen Community? My intuition tells me that much confusion might result, but I'd like to hear otherwise as I have felt a connection to ChNNR and his teachings.

Thank you.

Yes, it does make sense - if you feel drawn to it, and it wouldn't go against the wishes of your lama. I myself am practicing ngondro, and have a teacher who doesn't give Dzogchen pointing-out until after students have completed ngondro. And I also participate in ChNNR's webcasts, and am a DC member. I agree that ngondro, for many of us, is important - getting Dzogchen teachings in the meantime, from an amazing master such as ChNNR definitely can't hurt, IMO. As far as practice, I don't do regular practice from DC, but I try to integrate ChNNR's teachings on guru yoga, and apply it in my ngondro as much as I can.

tomamundsen wrote:Does it make sense for one who is doing a ngondro with a face-to-face Nyingma lama to join the Dzogchen Community? My intuition tells me that much confusion might result, but I'd like to hear otherwise as I have felt a connection to ChNNR and his teachings.

Thank you.

Yes, it does make sense - if you feel drawn to it, and it wouldn't go against the wishes of your lama.

tomamundsen wrote:Well, from my understanding, ChNNR doesn't have his students do ngondro and just directly starts teaching Dzogchen. However, the lama I'm practicing with teaches anyone who isn't going to die within a short period of time to do a ngondro and holds off on the Dzogchen teachings. He gave an analogy about how you need a special jewel container to hold a snow lion's milk and how the ngondro transforms us into this special jewel container so that we can receive Dzogchen teachings without them just immediately slipping through our grasp.

Ngondro and Dzogchen teachings are 100% compatible with each other. You can do Ngondro *as* your Dzogchen practice. Its not like just because you learn from ChNNR, you must do the practices he gives or else! Its all about the attitude with which you approach it. If you approach it without attachment, and just want to learn what its about, even if you don't understand what Dzogchen is teaching, you will have that information in your head. Then one day when you do understand, everything you've learned will make sense. There is also the possibility that you will understand it perfectly, and this will do nothing but enrich your Ngondro practice.

What you do not want to create is the following- attachment to understanding or learning Dzogchen, a feeling of guilt generated by "going against" what your teacher advises, hiding anything from your teacher, confusion regarding which one is "more true" than the other, confusion regarding what Dzogchen is or means, distraction from your daily Ngondro practice. If you can avoid these things which I see as being the biggest potential pitfalls based on what you are saying, then I see no harm in learning Dzogchen, and the potential of much benefit.

tomamundsen wrote:Does it make sense for one who is doing a ngondro with a face-to-face Nyingma lama to join the Dzogchen Community? My intuition tells me that much confusion might result, but I'd like to hear otherwise as I have felt a connection to ChNNR and his teachings.

Thank you.

ChNN emphasize Guru Yoga, Ngondro is mainly Guru Yoga if you take a close look. Also, many Gurus do direct introduction before Ngondro in the Nyingma. The question is not what you practice you are doing but if ChNN really push your buttons. If you already found a Guru that does push your buttons it might just be confusing.

/magnus

"To reject practice by saying, 'it is conceptual!' is the path of fools. A tendency of the inexperienced and something to be avoided."- Longchenpa

tomamundsen wrote:Does it make sense for one who is doing a ngondro with a face-to-face Nyingma lama to join the Dzogchen Community? My intuition tells me that much confusion might result, but I'd like to hear otherwise as I have felt a connection to ChNNR and his teachings.

Thank you.

Hi Tom,

I can understand how you feel about this. One of ChNN's books literally dropped into my hands 29 years ago, I read all I could about it--and had a tremendous desire to meet him and take teachings from him after that first moment. However, I was involved with another tradition, and delayed meeting ChNN for 20 years, more out of a sense of guilt and duty to my tradition than anything else. I eventually met others both in and out of my tradition who had gone to ChNN. I noted that they had not created any obvious obstacles, and they seemed to really have received great benefit. I eventually got over my inhibition, joined DC 9 years ago, and took introduction within the first year.

In brief, the experience has been all good. More than all good. And there has been no problems with reconciling any prior commitments, at least not so far.

tomamundsen wrote:Well, from my understanding, ChNNR doesn't have his students do ngondro and just directly starts teaching Dzogchen. However, the lama I'm practicing with teaches anyone who isn't going to die within a short period of time to do a ngondro and holds off on the Dzogchen teachings.

Being that one could die at any moment this idea of holding off on dzogchen unless someone is declared terminally ill is a strange idea in my opinion. Any of us could die within a short period of time... today... tomorrow... a month from now... not everyone has the luxury of knowing when death will come for them. If you have the interest in the dzogchen teachings then you're ready in my opinion, why delay the inevitable?

Also being that you have access to ChNN's teachings, again I'd say take advantage. Rinpoche's health has unfortunately been a bit of a rollercoaster the past couple years... all of our time is limited and the opportunity to receive his teachings is not guaranteed to last or endure through your ngondro. There's no harm in listening to him now, it can only be beneficial.

tomamundsen wrote:He gave an analogy about how you need a special jewel container to hold a snow lion's milk and how the ngondro transforms us into this special jewel container so that we can receive Dzogchen teachings without them just immediately slipping through our grasp.

Part of the ngondro is to show your dedication and genuine interest in the teachings. The ability to complete it shows maturity and readiness to understand Dzogchen. Otherwise an immature mind with no discipline may interpret dzogchen as a green light to throw caution to the wind and act however they'd like and/or fall into nihilism. One has to be ripe to properly receive these teachings, so look at ngondro as assured and expedited ripening. The special jewel container is discipline, maturity, dedication, compassion and an overall readiness to know Dzogchen for the benefit of oneself and all other beings. Again your interest shows readiness in my opinion, just listen with a humble mind and open heart and you cannot go wrong.

tomamundsen wrote:Does it make sense for one who is doing a ngondro with a face-to-face Nyingma lama to join the Dzogchen Community? My intuition tells me that much confusion might result, but I'd like to hear otherwise as I have felt a connection to ChNNR and his teachings.

Thank you.

I don't think you'll have any issues tom. All your teachers are unified in Guru Yoga.

How foolish you are, grasping the letter of the text and ignoring its intention! - Vasubandhu

By understanding everything you perceive from the perspective of the view, you are freed from the constraints of philosophical beliefs.By understanding that any and all mental activity is meditation, you are freed from arbitrary divisions between formal sessions and postmeditation activity.- Longchen Rabjam -

Did he do any sort of transmission today? As usual, I could not keep myself from falling asleep. Took the day off work just to do this and I find myself half asleep about 15 minutes in. Royal struggle to remain awake for the next 2 hours and I did not succeed no matter what position I was in.

Didn't really sound to me from what I heard that he had given a transmission, though.

"Use what seems like poison as medicine. We can use our personal suffering as the path to compassion for all beings." Pema Chodron