An update on the Plugin Developer tag system

As previously announced, the Plugin Developer tag system had become difficult to maintain and was frozen as a result of this. Since then, we’ve been actively discussing the future of the Plugin Developer tag and, consequently, the Bukkit+ forum.

We do have a couple of possible systems in mind that will take the place of the Plugin Developer tag and will be making an announcement as soon as we decide on which we feel is best for the community.

Until that time, we have decided to remove the developer tag from all existing profiles, while still keeping Bukkit+ available and in use. Any developers who have access to the Bukkit+ forum will retain that access and for those of you who don't have access, we'll be providing a way to get access to Bukkit+ provided you are an upstanding member of the community.

Think about it. No matter how hard you try to push for true legitimacy of this tag, there will be wannabes who taint that image, leading to arguments like this. I won't bother going into details because the plugin submission section's proof enough.

It should have been an invitation system to begin with.

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Which is why the time limit to upgrade would exist. If you wanted to, you could even put a 1 month timer on the "Amatuer" rank. Most of the dreaded "TNT-Protect" plugin devs always disappeared in under a month.

As previously announced, the Plugin Developer tag system had become difficult to maintain and was frozen as a result of this. Since then, we’ve been actively discussing the future of the Plugin Developer tag and, consequently, the Bukkit+ forum.

We do have a couple of possible systems in mind that will take the place of the Plugin Developer tag and will be making an announcement as soon as we decide on which we feel is best for the community.

Until that time, we have decided to remove the developer tag from all existing profiles, while still keeping Bukkit+ available and in use. Any developers who have access to the Bukkit+ forum will retain that access and for those of you who don't have access, we'll be providing a way to get access to Bukkit+ provided you are an upstanding member of the community.

I don't see the whole point of bukkit+ besides just being a bureaucrat. Make it a joinable group and be done with it. What's the point of a tag or exclusive forum? Creating something, learning something, should encourage people to code. Not some false sense of importance or superiority. People who want to code should just be able to opt in and get their help. Without this exclusive nonsense wasting time of the staff and attracting the wrong people.

I don't see the whole point of bukkit+ besides just being a bureaucrat. Make it a joinable group and be done with it. What's the point of a tag or exclusive forum? Creating something, learning something, should encourage people to code. Not some false sense of importance or superiority. People who want to code should just be able to opt in and get their help. Without this exclusive nonsense wasting time of the staff and attracting the wrong people.

/rant

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If you make it an open group, everyone would join it. If you make it closed, return to previous argument about bureaucracy.

Everyone? Just the members interested In coding. I don't see the problem in that.

In fact, why does bukkit have a discussion forum to begin with? You'd expect it to be a bug tracker and some coding help forums...

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xF currently doesn't support custom groups that can be autonomously monitored. You're either in a user group, or you aren't, although v1.1 has a new ability where people's user group status can expire.

xF currently doesn't support custom groups that can be autonomously monitored. You're either in a user group, or you aren't, although v1.1 has a new ability where people's user group status can expire.

This is because bukkit is not high and mighty and only wants to hang out with coders...this is a community and as such we welcome any and everyone to come be apart of and contribute.

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Why is it a community for server owners? The top level staffs expertise obviously lies with coding. I am not saying the community isn't fun, I am saying that perhaps people should stick to their specialities...

Why is it a community for server owners? The top level staffs expertise obviously lies with coding. I am not saying the community isn't fun, I am saying that perhaps people should stick to their specialities...

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Which says nothing of the lower-level minions such as myself who run servers as well as program.

And we do welcome server owners to our community, because they are the users of our product. Why would we not want them? And even though we do want them, why do we not want a place for only programmers as well?

Honestly, I never had one so I can't weigh in on whether having the Plugin Dev tag versus not having it is better or worse.

Going by Afforess's ranking idea on page one, I'd peg myself in the amateur group, even though I've been around for a while. To me, time does play a part in it, but it's also about how much you're willing to learn and apply. The other thing that's key, I feel, is making something unique, or 'one of a couple'. I know I'm personally guilty of a 'god mode' plugin myself, but that came later, and had a specific purpose since it is slightly different than the rest.

As a plugin developer that has been here for over 7 months I would have to say that I am just going to sit and wait to see what Bukkit is going to do as far as distinguishing plugin devs. Although Afforess has some very good points and good ideas, the bukkit team also has a few points as well. I will sit patiently and wait for what pans out.

As a plugin developer that has been here for over 7 months I would have to say that I am just going to sit and wait to see what Bukkit is going to do as far as distinguishing plugin devs. Although Afforess has some very good points and good ideas, the bukkit team also has a few points as well. I will sit patiently and wait for what pans out.

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Agreed (I've seen the splitting of hmod and the growth of Bukkit as well). Developed my plugin for both platforms.
I've been wondering what direction the Bukkit team is taking lately with all these changes... Only time will tell.

And people wonder why I keep making alts? No, I did not upload anything malicious, I uploaded something that auto-downloaded the latest version of my plugin, something that a LOT OF PLUGINS DO (Whether it be the plugin itself, or the latest version of a library).
The lies the Bukkit members spread about me is really getting annoying. You want to see what I uploaded? Here you go:

Now then, if people would stop talking shit about me, that would be nice. You want to know what got me banned? Disagreeing with how things were run, in a very vocal manner. I was the loudest, so I was the first to go. I was a warning to everyone else who was unhappy, that if you keep it up you're gone. Careful @Afforess, you'll probably be next

Ranking systems are required for all types of organised and controlled groups.

Hierarchy is a necessity in any community. Although some people will disagree, just about every community benefits from some sort of hierarchical and meritocratic system. In the least it provides motivation through incentive and what community doesn't want to encourage people to develop things which make its own platform better?

If someone is about to say "but the plugin developer rank isn't even an achievement, anyone can get it now, there are lots of crappy developers" then stop, think, is that a problem with the rank, or is that a problem with the way people are admitted to the rank. It's the latter for those who can't be arsed to think....

I understand why you've removed the whole plugin developer system as user management is extremely time consuming, however I feel you should consider changing the management method rather than removing the rank itself. Perhaps putting together a team who specifically manage this issue would be far more beneficial. Xenforo 1.1 has some new tools which might also help this group manage things more efficiently too!

@Afforess 's suggestion is good and all about splitting the rank, however this wont change the fact that it's the method of admission to these ranks that is the problem. I don't think splitting the ranks will solve the problem, it will just postpone it and create more work for forum moderation.

A meritocratic ranking system is a must though!

Just my ten pence... It's not like its my job to study peoples behavior or anything. *Sarcasm*

Doctors have the private healthcare system, public healthcare system medical interns , doctors in residence e.t.c e.t.c too many to name. Ranks associated with qualifications and what they specialize in.

For example do you think lets say a brain surgeon should just be called a doctor? Or perhaps an endocrinologist should just be called a physician? Obviously not....

Architects have levels of seniority spread through just about every company they work for and even if they freelance they with use a hierarchical system, senior achitect, junior architect, project manager, senior contractor, junior contractor...

What do you think all the letters after their names? Its pretty much the same thing... for example I'm BSc PGDip CPSYCHOL which is actually pretty under-qualified compared to most psychiatrists.

How did it go from Ranks to Doctors?
I really don't see the connection.

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@ZachBora responded to my post about how hierarchy and named positions are required for efficient working companies, communities, forums, whatever by asking if Doctors or Architects have suck ranks, which of course they do.

@ZachBora responded to my post about how hierarchy and named positions are required for efficient working companies, communities, forums, whatever by asking if Doctors or Architects have suck ranks, which of course they do.

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I'm figuring, if they do it elsewhere in the professional realm (meaning I exclude military and company) we should do it too.

I've ignored this issue for a while, because I considered it too frivolous to even comment on. I assumed Bukkit would do the responsible thing. Sadly, this seems to not be the case.

It's not so much the removal that bothers me - rather, that everyone thinks removal is the right course of action.

Perhaps there are others, who like me, disagree with this course of events and will speak out after reading my dissent. I can always hope.

What I think a lot of members have forgotten is what the purpose of member tags is. They are a means of identification. "Plugin Developer" is an identifier, signaling that this particular member is likely to have some understanding of bukkit, Java, and can probably help solve basic problems. Basically, a cut above the riff-raff coming in from the Minecraft.net forums.

While this identification was imperfect (not all members with the badge were even remotely proficient) - was this a problem with the badge itself, or the lax standards at which it was given?The lax standards, clearly.

The obvious problem Bukkit faced is that they did/do not have the manpower to accurately review new plugins and decide if the developer was worthy of the badge. So they err'd in the side of leniency, and gave it away more freely than it should have been. Leniency can be forgiven - I too have a life and can not spend unlimited time on bukkit matters.

But we don't live in a world of black and white - there are more than 2 options available to Bukkit. They didn't have to remove the "Plugin Developer" tag. Instead, they should have done the opposite - expanded it.

Imagine a ranking system like this:

"Amateur Plugin Developer"

"Plugin Developer"

"Expert Plugin Developer"

Where the tags would be assigned based on the quality of plugins AND time registered on the forums. This system would need little oversight, and likely could have been mostly automated. There would be no way for Amatuer Plugin Developers to move up in rank unless they have been around for 3 months, so the number of cases to review would remain light.

Once you get above the 3 month registered time, the amount of users who have a badge fall quickly. It's rather easy to sort through the few developers who actually deserve the expert badge.

This could have been a win-win situation. Bukkit could continue their lenient plugin developer badge program, users could continue to identify members more likely to have a clue what they were talking about, and complaints about the badge would cease.

But on the other hand, you can still see that person is a developer by looking at signature or BukkitDev link.

Also there were plugin developers that made much worse bug report than normal people (in "i get an error plz fix it" style).

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You can't tell if a person is a plugin developer just by looking at their signature!
Like, someone could just post up a random link to some random plugin that isn't even theirs and you would believe it WAS their's.
The BukkitDev link is the only way to tell if someone is a plugin developer or not, with the exception of just going through the forums and finding out if the person did release a plugin.

Dons false moustache and sombrero, fires wildly into the air, and rides a liberated horse through the forum, screaming "They don't need no stinking badges!" at the top of her lungs...
Secret Java Decoder rings, maybe?

I just made my first plugin. It's a simple, tiny plugin, but of course I didn't make it to get a shiny badge; else I would have made something when I first joined. I made it to fill a niche I wanted filled; any recognition is an afterthought. However, it still is a little disappointing to learn that I won't get any sort of official recognition for it (at least for the immediate future); not to mention access to Bukkit+.

I understand the circumstance, but it just seems a little bit like those times when a kid in a class in school speaks out of turn and a particularly nasty teacher decides to make an example out of him and punish the entire class for his behavior. It sends a message, sure, but it creates a situation where the people doing something lame are not losing out on nearly as much as the people who were not responsible for said problems.

Does abuse of something by a few people justify it being taken away from everyone?