Don't you think if Apple had recently fired some Antenna Engineers. we'd have heard about it-- especially with all the purported antenna problems? Apple couldn't even keep the iPhone secret-- I suspect all the anti-Apple trolls would jump on any evidence of a firing. We even have some here suggesting that new job openings imply firings...

Let's see some evidence of firings-- linkedin, anyone?

.

Evidence of firings ? What evidence are you looking for ? The job openings for antenna designers seems pretty obvious to me. Sorry you can't put two and two together. Yes, this could all be a coincidence. Kinda like the coincidence Apple finally starts making iPhone cases, and this case only covers the antenna. Nobody is saying these are facts. But they are highly possible.

I guess, you missed the part where I intentionally dead short it with a metal coin and still don't have a substantial drop in the connectivity. So, all the theories of 'shorting' the gap with skin don't hold water.

There are a lot of variables here. For instance is WiFi and Blutooth turned on. Plus the fact that even after these technical reports people still don't uderstamd that the bar system for reporting signal strength means nothing. People make mountains out of this bars issue when the only thing that matters is making calls or not.

In any event I'm still using my 3G and I gave to say it looks like iOS 4 has introduced a lot of bugs. Some of those apppear to be related to the behaviours of RF networking. So there is a possibility of some problems being fixed with a software update. Things related to attenuation of the signal won't be helped by software though.

What is funny here is that from all reports I've seen people could have the best phone reception going if they add a case or in some way insulate the antennas. So people are really complaining about the best device on the market in many ways.

I don't want to dismiss people that are having problems or think they are. Rather the suggestion is that many are engaged in mass hysteria. When it comes right down to it a cell phone is nothing more than a two way radio, like all two way radios it requires a little intelligence upon the part of the operator. Intelligence is something lacking in a good portion of Apples customer base.

Evidence of firings ? What evidence are you looking for ? The job openings for antenna designers seems pretty obvious to me. Sorry you can't put two and two together. Yes, this could all be a coincidence.

So your argument is that they need to have first fire someone before they hire someone else? ¿Que? How does any company ever grow at that rate? How about, they are hiring people because they need more people.

Quote:

Kinda like the coincidence Apple finally starts making iPhone cases, and this case only covers the antenna. Nobody is saying these are facts. But they are highly possible.

OK, so you think Apple knew they had a devastating "design flaw" on their hands, but instead of hiring people months ago to deal with it they waited until a week AFTER it shipped before trying figure it out; but wait, there's more, you also think Apple's great idea to fix this "design flaw" was to not actually fix the problem, but to hope no one notices (because no one ever scrutinizes Apple¡) and to make a case to sell for $29 that will pull a fast one over each and every customer. That is absurd!

Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"

So your argument is that they need to have first fired someone before they hire someone? How does any company ever grow at that rate? How about, they are growing faster than the industry and are hiring people because they need more people.

Maybe because Steve Jobs was pissed, and rightfully so, and fired them on the spot, before they hired replacements. Or even using your logic, maybe they are still working for the company. But only until they get their replacements up to speed.

Maybe because Steve Jobs was pissed, and rightfully so, and fired them on the spot, before they hired replacements.

Pissed at what? That sounds a lot like you are saying the iPhone 4 is flawed by design (despite not affecting all users) and that it was the antenna designers that forced Apple to make the antenna external. Does any of that really seem likely to you?

Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"

Pissed at what? That sounds a lot like you are saying the iPhone 4 is flawed by design (despite not affecting all users) and that it was the antenna designers that forced Apple to make the antenna external. Does any of that really seem likely to you?

Uhh, it could have been the idea of these people to design this external antenna. And their responsibility to weigh all the pros/cons of their design and the testing of it. Very likely.

I wouldn't think your phone was built last week and I have a friend with 86026 so digits 4 and 5 can't represent the week, at least not starting with the Gregorian calendar.

Yeah I was surprised when I saw the last two digits.

The odd thing I have noticed is that the number of bars seem to fluctuate a lot more than previous versions but call quality and download speed hasn't been affected for me. I've only really seen the fluctuation in my office (well cube) where with my previous iphones I would hangout with one bar throughout the day. With the 4 I can see it go from 5 to 3 to 4 to 1 in a matter of a few moments without being touched

I wonder if this whole thing would go away if the bumpers didn't seem to be so overpriced. I can imagine it's annoying if the phone drops calls because you are holding it in a way you naturally hold any other phone, and it's probably doubly annoying if the solution to that is to pay what feels like way over the odds for the bumper.

For the record, I don't own an iPhone 4, so I can't comment on how severe this problem is. I have a Blackberry that my company gives me, and that's shit for reasons a cover won't fix.

The issue is that in order to get this phenomenon while making the call, you have to hold it in a very awkward way. The way most people would hold the phone would not cause a problem - which is why most people (even those who can duplicate the problem) say that the use as a phone is excellent.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ski1

I find it amusing how Apple proudly promoted there is no right or wrong way to hold the iPad. Great design !! Designing a product that fits the user. Apple took a compete 180 on the iPhone 4. There is suddenly a right and wrong way to hold their newest product. And the way many people normally hold a cell phone is now the wrong way. The user now has to adapt to the product.

How many people hold the cell phone in a way that causes a problem?

We have a lot of people who can manage to duplicate the problem if they go out of their way to do something, but how many of them would see a problem in normal usage?

"I'm way over my head when it comes to technical issues like this"Gatorguy 5/31/13

Return your freaking phone and buy something else! With your opinion of Jobs and Apple I have to wonder why you and your comrades are still lurking and screaming. Why in the hell are you still an Apple customer? Do you actually like dealing with what you consider to be an evil corporation with no feelings or concerns for its customers? Aren't you and others displaying classic symptoms of battered spouse syndrome and Stockholm syndrome. It sure does look that way to me. How utterly sick. Do business with a company you respect instead of sticking with one you consider the personification of evil. God there are physiologically sick people in this forum.

When get you are old enough to think rationally and analyze data for yourself, instead of blindly accepting everything Jobz says and sells without scrutiny, you will understand how those of us feel. Apparently you and the other lemmings don't mind being lied to and insulted by a guy that wants your money and considers you a dope.

Evidence of firings ? What evidence are you looking for ? The job openings for antenna designers seems pretty obvious to me. Sorry you can't put two and two together. Yes, this could all be a coincidence. Kinda like the coincidence Apple finally starts making iPhone cases, and this case only covers the antenna. Nobody is saying these are facts. But they are highly possible.

Do you believe that Apple has no new wireless products under development? Again, go to the site below and search the archives for recent patent activity-- it involves a lot of non-phone-call wireless activity:

Apple is always balancing their work force to address the current needs and those anticipated for near-term new products

If apple is savvy they:

1) would have fired the non-performing engineers months ago when they first detected the problem (when they decided to sell a bumper case)

or, more realistically:

2) Would be using the Engineers who are most familiar with the iPhone 4 antenna (the Engineers that created the purported problem) to solve the problem-- thus they would have to hire additional Engineers to work on antennas for devices in the pipeline: iPod Touch; Universal Remote?; enhanced AppleTV;

It is pretty obvious to me that you have no business experience, personnel skills, and never had an employee-- other than an occasional baby-sitter or gardener (boy to mow the lawn).

.

"Swift generally gets you to the right way much quicker." - auxio -

"The perfect [birth]day -- A little playtime, a good poop, and a long nap." - Tomato Greeting Cards -

]Don't you think if Apple had recently fired some Antenna Engineers.[/B] we'd have heard about it-- especially with all the purported antenna problems? Apple couldn't even keep the iPhone secret-- I suspect all the anti-Apple trolls would jump on any evidence of a firing. We even have some here suggesting that new job openings imply firings...

Let's see some evidence of firings-- linkedin, anyone?

.

I think you have the wrong person. I never implied anything like that. But I do agree with your comments about the trolls.

I might suggest though that this may even be a new position, dedicated specifically to help resolve the purported issue at hand.

When get you are old enough to think rationally and analyze data for yourself, instead of blindly accepting everything Jobz says and sells without scrutiny, you will understand how those of us feel. Apparently you and the other lemmings don't mind being lied to and insulted by a guy that wants your money and considers you a dope.

Don't you think it is rather childish to deliberately misspell "Jobs" name?

Why are you here?

Maybe your stats will enlighten us:

Glockman:

Join Date
06-30-2010
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"Swift generally gets you to the right way much quicker." - auxio -

"The perfect [birth]day -- A little playtime, a good poop, and a long nap." - Tomato Greeting Cards -

Maybe because Steve Jobs was pissed, and rightfully so, and fired them on the spot, before they hired replacements. Or even using your logic, maybe they are still working for the company. But only until they get their replacements up to speed.

Apple has tons of jobs posted in all R&D areas pretty much all of the time. This really doesn't mean much at all. At the worst, one might read into it that they are continuing to advance their products and so need additional staff to work in those areas.

I suppose it might be titillating to imagine Jobs busting down the door, foaming at the mouth and firing every rf engineer in the building. Titillating but not really supported (for now).

"My 8th grade math teacher once said: "You can't help it if you're dumb, you are born that way. But stupid is self inflicted."" -Hiro.

OK, so you think Apple knew they had a devastating "design flaw" on their hands, but instead of hiring people months ago to deal with it they waited until a week AFTER it shipped before trying figure it out; but wait, there's more, you also think Apple's great idea to fix this "design flaw" was to not actually fix the problem, but to hope no one notices (because no one ever scrutinizes Apple¡) and to make a case to sell for $29 that will pull a fast one over each and every customer. That is absurd!

What are you talking about ? I never claimed they are hiring these people to fix the iPhone 4 issue. And I never said Apple is trying to profit off their flaw ? LOL. Geez !!! Why are you making all this stuff up ? My personal opinion is that this antenna issue wasn't noticed into far too late in the designing/production process. Thus they came up with this faster, cheaper solution of covers to fix the issue, instead of redesigning and delaying the iPhone 4. They took a chance this issue would not get the attention it is now receiving. Very likely to me.

My personal opinion is that this antenna issue wasn't noticed into far too late in the designing/production process. Thus they came up with this cheaper solution of covers to fix the issue, instead of redesigning and delaying the iPhone 4. They took a chance this issue would not get the attention it is now receiving.

Doubt it. Jobs would never have made such a big deal about the antenna in the keynote. If he was worried about the scrutiny, he would not have brought it up at all. Even at a late stage of the production ramp up they could have applied a coating very easily.

What are you talking about ? I never claimed they are hiring these people to fix the iPhone 4 issue. And I never said Apple is trying to profit off their flaw ? LOL. Geez !!! Why are you making all this stuff up ? My personal opinion is that this antenna issue wasn't noticed into far too late in the designing/production process. Thus they came up with this cheaper solution of covers to fix the issue, instead of redesigning and delaying the iPhone 4. They took a chance this issue would not get the attention it is now receiving. Very likely to me.

You wrote "Maybe because Steve Jobs was pissed, and rightfully so, and fired them on the spot, before they hired replacements." and "The job openings for antenna designers seems pretty obvious to me. Sorry you can't put two and two together." and "Kinda like the coincidence Apple finally starts making iPhone cases, and this case only covers the antenna." You are implying that the hirings are done because of the iPhone 4 reception issue and that the Bumpers were created to mask the issue whilst making a profit from it.

Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"

Apple has tons of jobs posted in all R&D areas pretty much all of the time. This really doesn't mean much at all. At the worst, one might read into it that they are continuing to advance their products and so need additional staff to work in those areas.

I suppose it might be titillating to imagine Jobs busting down the door, foaming at the mouth and firing every rf engineer in the building. Titillating but not really supported (for now).

Correct, looking at just the job postings does not mean much. But taken in the context of everything else, it is a very possible scenario. I'm not saying it's the only possibility. Just a likely possibility taken in the context of everything.

The issue is that in order to get this phenomenon while making the call, you have to hold it in a very awkward way. The way most people would hold the phone would not cause a problem - which is why most people (even those who can duplicate the problem) say that the use as a phone is excellent.

How many people hold the cell phone in a way that causes a problem?

We have a lot of people who can manage to duplicate the problem if they go out of their way to do something, but how many of them would see a problem in normal usage?

That's not true at all. When I make calls as I have always done since the launch of the 3G I naturally hold the phone in a way that that causes this issue. a) Because your hands up to your ear and therefore you can't see where your hand is, b) because I'm only ever using one hand as opposed to two I have less leeway how I hold it and c) because it's less parrallel to the ground I have more chance of the phone slipping out of my hand because it's not wresting on my thumb muscle and palm. Therefore making calls is the least comfortable and most tedious part of this issue, and it's often more important not to lose a call than it is to briefly have a web page not load.

Maybe what your saying has some truth for some people but I would be happy to bet it's a very small percentage.

"Islam is as dangerous in a man as rabies in a dog"~ Sir Winston Churchill. We are nurturing a nightmare that will haunt our children, and kill theirs.

Quote:
Originally posted by maciekskontakt
3dB is half of power. It is not small. That's why we, engineers, have logarithmic expression of power just to compress large drop/increase.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Robin Huber
I am sure Mr. Gaywood stands humbly in the shadow of your erudition.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hodar

If you can't debate the FACT, then insult the messenger .... nice work!

I agree with you that one shouldn't do that. But I wasn't. I think you missed my point, a point that in my effort to be wry might have gotten lost.

I didn't debate the fact because it is true. My point was that he was pointing out something clearly self-evident to a guy who clearly has the credentials to know it. At the risk of an overblown metaphor, it struck me as though I were telling Einstein, that "we mathematicians have a thing called fractions." It just seemed silly and a little insulting to make such a comment to Mr. Gaywood in that manner.

I think you have the wrong person. I never implied anything like that. But I do agree with your comments about the trolls.

I might suggest though that this may even be a new position, dedicated specifically to help resolve the purported issue at hand.

Sorry! But, I quoted your post for a reason-- not that you suggested firings, but you suggested that "fired" employees wouldn't sue or blog!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Onhka

Can't say I have ever witnessed such activity. Not the right thing to do especially today if you want to get back in the corporate world.

And if you were to sue for 'wrongful termination' broadcasting by blogging your mouth off is something your lawyer would not advice.

You are, likely, correct that fired employees wouldn't sue or blog in a very competitive job market!

However, these are relatively specialized "expert" jobs in a small tightly-knit, networked, technical community with several back-channels! Any former Apple Engineers coming available would surely be noticed... Like the Palm employees leaving HP.

.

"Swift generally gets you to the right way much quicker." - auxio -

"The perfect [birth]day -- A little playtime, a good poop, and a long nap." - Tomato Greeting Cards -

Even at a late stage of the production ramp up they could have applied a coating very easily.

We don't know if a coating will solve the issue. Nor do we know about the durability of a coating. If a coating will truly solve the issue, and be durable, Apple should be doing this right now !!! Why aren't they doing it now then ?

Do you believe that Apple has no new wireless products under development? Again, go to the site below and search the archives for recent patent activity-- it involves a lot of non-phone-call wireless activity:

Apple is always balancing their work force to address the current needs and those anticipated for near-term new products

If apple is savvy they:

1) would have fired the non-performing engineers months ago when they first detected the problem (when they decided to sell a bumper case)

or, more realistically:

2) Would be using the Engineers who are most familiar with the iPhone 4 antenna (the Engineers that created the purported problem) to solve the problem-- thus they would have to hire additional Engineers to work on antennas for devices in the pipeline: iPod Touch; Universal Remote?; enhanced AppleTV;

It is pretty obvious to me that you have no business experience, personnel skills, and never had an employee-- other than an occasional baby-sitter or gardener (boy to mow the lawn).

.

Wow. I am not sure what side you are on. But the way you sound,

I would argue with you vehemently that no one at Apple was aware of any antenna issues other than what was known about the state of the art at that time. Or that the bumpers were designed to address that issue.

Perhaps one should become a little more familiar with the FCC filing regulations. Such knowledge at the time of submission would require that Apple falsify the findings submitted by Federal Government approved laboratories; which would be a criminal offense.

It is unbelievable some of the comments inferring that Apple knew about the issue before they were brought to market, are purposely attempting to hide to problem or placing the blame on the consumer. There are laws against that to, especially as governed by a Federal agency.

If Apple can't resolve the problem by a software fix, mechanically modifying or replacing the antenna, they will recall and replace the product, or refund it accordingly.

Thank heavens that has been their policy for years, and one that has relegated Apple to such high levels of consumer confidence for their products, as well as their service and support.

Correct. And it's a possibility. Not a fact, but a very real possibility.

Since you don't have any actual, you know, evidence to support it, calling it a, "very real possibility," is pretty much the same as me claiming that the iPad release caused the Gulf oil spill. After all, they happened about the same time and there were job postings for Apple engineers and oil workers seen, too much of a coincidence to ignore!

Sorry, but for it to be considered a, "very real possibility," you need to have more supporting evidence than what feeds conspiracy theorists. As for it being a possibility, well, yeah, pretty much anything is a possibility.

I've just put myself on Tesco's waiting list for the iPhone 4. (...in partnership with 02.)

£20 a month.

1 year contract. (My first, currently a PAYGO...)

Unlimited texts.

Plenty of call time.

Unlimited wireless.

That will do me.

Random thought: I'll be getting a copy of 'Crazy Birds.'

I guess I'd want a 'protective' case for a £500 investment that can easily get scratched in a pocket. A work colleague has hers in a leather pouch. (She has a 3GS...) Though whether I'll pay Apple's 'deluded' price for a 'bumper' depends on whether I get hit by red kryptonite or not. (Greedy Apple again. See the UK rip off price of the entry Mini Mac for details...yeesh. *Smells greed again...)

I'm excited. My first new phone in 5 years. I've been waiting for 'this' iPhone since 2007.

This.

Is.

The.

One.

Lemon Bon Bon.

You know, for a company that specializes in the video-graphics market, you'd think that they would offer top-of-the-line GPUs...

Finally, something approaching scientific testing is bringing some light to this issue, and not just smoke.

Yes but the test pretty much prove Apples point, all cell phones are impacted by being held in the hand. I will go even further and say how that hand is positioned relative to the actual antenna will impact results on all cell phones. There is nothing out of the ordinary here.

Quote:

I always hate it when people who are wrong fail to admit it. Let me be the first to say that any posts I have made on the several threads devoted to this subject in which I have characterized dissenting posts as "hysteria" I repudiate.

Hysteria is the right word here The problem is we have masses of people concerned that they should return their iPhones when they have no problems whatsoever to report. If that isn't part of the definition of Hysteria it ought to be.

It is one thing to express a problem or concern you are actually experiencing. It is another thing to jump on the raft to hysteriaville when you aren't subject to the problems discussed. Frankly I see a bunch of idiots getting worked up over nothing in this thread. If the iPhone works for you get off the raft, the cold water might help you see with a little more clarity as you swim ashore.

Quote:

This does not mean that I accept these two tests as definitive. But it does mean that they have cast real doubt on my position, to the point where I cannot continue to assert it.

That is for you to decide. On the otherhand it should be pretty clear by now that iPhone 4 has one of the best antennas going right now on a cell phone. With the adoption of some sort of insulator it looks like this device would be ideal for people in fringe areas.

Quote:

The next step is to see that these tests are reproducible. Further, I still don't know what the motivations of the testers are, whether they are affiliated with or fans of competing products. Whether others were involved in checking their work or if they worked alone. And I am troubled by the fact that Mr. Gaywood made a post here, the tone of which was something other than what I would expect of a serious researcher--a little starstruck and defensive it seemed to me.

So, until further studies confirm these preliminary ones, count me as neutral on the subject.

Neutral is not really possible for me. This mainly due to the amount of ignorance seen in these threads. The only thing that really counts is making calls. All the reports indicate that iPhone can do this from place few other phones can.

Don't take this as dismissing the issue of antenuation of the signal. It is a real problem on all handheld RF devices. The problem is all the people looking at the bars displayed with different grips on the phone and declaring the problem as uniquely iPhone 4s.

Further what people may be seeing here is possibly new behaviour with respect to software. Frankly iOS 4 has issues on my 3G with respect to cell data. So yeah it is possible there are glitches to fix (there always will be) but they can't address hardware issues. In the end it is really just an educational tasks that affected users need to engage in.

I'd suggest that Apple start "appeasing" those that complain with free bumpers now and foregoing the revenue before that lawsuit takes off and they are forced to give up free bumpers and compensate those that had to pay contract termination fees and now want out of their current AT&T/iPhone contract.

That's not true at all. When I make calls as I have always done since the launch of the 3G I naturally hold the phone in a way that that causes this issue. a) Because your hands up to your ear and therefore you can't see where your hand is, b) because I'm only ever using one hand as opposed to two I have less leeway how I hold it and c) because it's less parrallel to the ground I have more chance of the phone slipping out of my hand because it's not wresting on my thumb muscle and palm. Therefore making calls is the least comfortable and most tedious part of this issue, and it's often more important not to lose a call than it is to briefly have a web page not load.

Maybe what your saying has some truth for some people but I would be happy to bet it's a very small percentage.