How can a 7-footer go through an entire game (let alone a double overtime game) without a single postup? How is that possible?

Only a retard like bargnani could accomplish something like that

Mon Nov 26th, 2012, 09:42 PM

Miekenstien

Quote:

NoPropsneeded wrote:

Only a retard like bargnani could accomplish something like that

Can't believe as a 4 he didn't call his own play with himself on the block when he was dribbling up the ball. He should have called an iso play for himself posted up and passed himself the ball made a hard move to the basket and got his own rebound for the putback and one. One thing about bargnani is the horrible plays he calls for himself to run. What a dick

Tue Nov 27th, 2012, 12:00 AM

NoPropsneeded

Quote:

Miekenstien wrote:

Can't believe as a 4 he didn't call his own play with himself on the block when he was dribbling up the ball. He should have called an iso play for himself posted up and passed himself the ball made a hard move to the basket and got his own rebound for the putback and one. One thing about bargnani is the horrible plays he calls for himself to run. What a dick

Are you saying that a 7 footer who is supposed to be the focal point of your offense. Can't figure out how to get position down low and ask for the ball? thats just pathetic

Tue Nov 27th, 2012, 12:55 AM

Miekenstien

Quote:

NoPropsneeded wrote:

Are you saying that a 7 footer who is supposed to be the focal point of your offense. Can't figure out how to get position down low and ask for the ball? thats just pathetic

not saying it at all. i am saying he isn't the one calling plays. he didn't have a post up isn't the same as he didn't go down to the low block. he isn't the decision maker and to blame him for it is needless nitpicking

Tue Nov 27th, 2012, 08:42 AM

ebrian

Are you saying that after 7 years in the league Bargnani is still following strict orders from the coach? Come on.

Tue Nov 27th, 2012, 08:48 AM

Miekenstien

Quote:

ebrian wrote:

Are you saying that after 7 years in the league Bargnani is still following strict orders from the coach? Come on.

Casey said the offense will be a "motion" offense that doesn't require him to be calling a designed play each trip up the floor. That appears to mean that there's flexibility among the players to read the defense, and react accordingly. I'm pretty sure there's enough freedom in this strategy for Bargnani to setup down low, and call for the ball without being persecuted by the coaching staff.

Tue Nov 27th, 2012, 04:06 PM

akashsingh

Quote:

Nilanka wrote:

Casey said the offense will be a "motion" offense that doesn't require him to be calling a designed play each trip up the floor. That appears to mean that there's flexibility among the players to read the defense, and react accordingly. I'm pretty sure there's enough freedom in this strategy for Bargnani to setup down low, and call for the ball without being persecuted by the coaching staff.

damn you just jizzed all over miekensteins argument, nice one!

Tue Nov 27th, 2012, 04:11 PM

CalgaryRapsFan

Quote:

Nilanka wrote:

Casey said the offense will be a "motion" offense that doesn't require him to be calling a designed play each trip up the floor. That appears to mean that there's flexibility among the players to read the defense, and react accordingly. I'm pretty sure there's enough freedom in this strategy for Bargnani to setup down low, and call for the ball without being persecuted by the coaching staff.

While I do agree with your logic, I also get the feeling that DC is using Bargnani to spread the floor, since he's about the only player on the starting unit capable of consistently making a 3pt shot (especially while Lowry's been hurt). With Valanciunas, DeRozan, McGuire and a pass-first Calderon on the floor, if Bargnani was always operating in the post, the opposition would have absolutely no reason to play any of their defenders any further out than the key!

I don't mean this as a defense of Bargnani, but rather as an indictment of the severely below-average talent level of this team, especially the starting unit.

Tue Nov 27th, 2012, 04:55 PM

jimmie

Quote:

Nilanka wrote:

Casey said the offense will be a "motion" offense that doesn't require him to be calling a designed play each trip up the floor. That appears to mean that there's flexibility among the players to read the defense, and react accordingly. I'm pretty sure there's enough freedom in this strategy for Bargnani to setup down low, and call for the ball without being persecuted by the coaching staff.

This isn't pickup basketball. They do have plays or offensive sets that they run each and every time they have the ball in the half-court, and those plays do require specific positioning by each of the five players. Most of the Raptors plays have Bargnani on the perimeter. While I'm sure that's where he wants to be, moreso than in the post, it's not his 'choice', it's what the playbook dictates.

As CalgaryRapsFan says, this isn't to back Bargs, but let's try to keep the hate to a reasonable level here. Suggesting Bargnani chooses what he wants to do on offense is just as irrational as saying he's got no passion and his teammates must hate him for all the undeserved treatment he gets from the coaching staff, because 'just look at his face'.

I think they should trade him, too. Not because I think he can't be a useful piece for a playoff team, but because I don't think he can do it here any longer. But I guess I don't invest myself enough in basketball to get so vitriolic about the team.

Tue Nov 27th, 2012, 06:33 PM

NoPropsneeded

Quote:

Nilanka wrote:

Casey said the offense will be a "motion" offense that doesn't require him to be calling a designed play each trip up the floor. That appears to mean that there's flexibility among the players to read the defense, and react accordingly. I'm pretty sure there's enough freedom in this strategy for Bargnani to setup down low, and call for the ball without being persecuted by the coaching staff.

Exactly what i was pointing to. Thanks for clearing things up

Wed Nov 28th, 2012, 09:43 AM

Nilanka

Quote:

jimmie wrote:

This isn't pickup basketball. They do have plays or offensive sets that they run each and every time they have the ball in the half-court, and those plays do require specific positioning by each of the five players. Most of the Raptors plays have Bargnani on the perimeter. While I'm sure that's where he wants to be, moreso than in the post, it's not his 'choice', it's what the playbook dictates.

As CalgaryRapsFan says, this isn't to back Bargs, but let's try to keep the hate to a reasonable level here. Suggesting Bargnani chooses what he wants to do on offense is just as irrational as saying he's got no passion and his teammates must hate him for all the undeserved treatment he gets from the coaching staff, because 'just look at his face'.

I think they should trade him, too. Not because I think he can't be a useful piece for a playoff team, but because I don't think he can do it here any longer. But I guess I don't invest myself enough in basketball to get so vitriolic about the team.

I don't believe for a second that the offense is designed to have Bargnani on the perimeter 100% of the time. There is most definitely flexibility to have him operate down low once in a while. The first half of last night is a clear example.

Implying that Bargnani is lazy isn't me "hating" him. It's the truth.

Wed Nov 28th, 2012, 11:17 AM

akashsingh

Quote:

Nilanka wrote:

I don't believe for a second that the offense is designed to have Bargnani on the perimeter 100% of the time. There is most definitely flexibility to have him operate down low once in a while. The first half of last night is a clear example.

Implying that Bargnani is lazy isn't me "hating" him. It's the truth.

maybe if he took the time to wipe away the tears, he would've been able to read your initial post and you wouldn't have to explain a second time. :o

Wed Nov 28th, 2012, 11:43 AM

jimmie

Quote:

Nilanka wrote:

I don't believe for a second that the offense is designed to have Bargnani on the perimeter 100% of the time. There is most definitely flexibility to have him operate down low once in a while. The first half of last night is a clear example.

Implying that Bargnani is lazy isn't me "hating" him. It's the truth.

No, not 100% on the outside, but that's not what I said. I said that the offense, any offense, is actually 'a design' that requires specific positioning by each player. This was in response to your suggestion that Bargnani simply chooses not to play in the post and/or there's no reason he can't just go there whenever he wants. But to play devil's advocate, I would guess, based on watching about 7 of this year's games, maybe 75% of the Raptors plays require Bargnani to either set up or end up on the perimeter.

And I'm still not sure how anyone on a fansite can say with any certainty that any player is "lazy" based pretty much solely on body language. I'm not saying he is or he isn't, but you don't know any more than I do. To say "it's the truth" is pretty definitive, and is what I meant when I was talking about keeping the hate (call it "criticism" if it feels better) to a reasonable level. There's plenty of concrete things to say about Bargnani's game without the hyperbole.

Finally, akash or whatever your name is -- I really hope you're 12 years old, based on how I see you 'conversing' with people on a discussion board. Otherwise, you're just a dick.

Wed Nov 28th, 2012, 12:33 PM

Nilanka

Quote:

jimmie wrote:

No, not 100% on the outside, but that's not what I said. I said that the offense, any offense, is actually 'a design' that requires specific positioning by each player. This was in response to your suggestion that Bargnani simply chooses not to play in the post and/or there's no reason he can't just go there whenever he wants. But to play devil's advocate, I would guess, based on watching about 7 of this year's games, maybe 75% of the Raptors plays require Bargnani to either set up or end up on the perimeter.

And I'm still not sure how anyone on a fansite can say with any certainty that any player is "lazy" based pretty much solely on body language. I'm not saying he is or he isn't, but you don't know any more than I do. To say "it's the truth" is pretty definitive, and is what I meant when I was talking about keeping the hate (call it "criticism" if it feels better) to a reasonable level. There's plenty of concrete things to say about Bargnani's game without the hyperbole.

Finally, akash or whatever your name is -- I really hope you're 12 years old, based on how I see you 'conversing' with people on a discussion board. Otherwise, you're just a dick.

My original comment was regarding the idea that Bargnani can play 36 minutes, and take 19 shots without a single post-up attempt (vs. San Antonio). There's no way this was by design. Not a chance.

As for the laziness "hyperbole", it's either that or a lack of intelligence. There's no other way to explain why someone in the middle of one of the worst shooting displays in franchise history, decided not to make life easier on himself and play a few possessions with his back to the basket. And that's just discussing Bargnani offense for this one game. Once you factor in his anemic rebounding numbers (over his career), I fail to see how it's not an issue of effort/laziness.

Wed Nov 28th, 2012, 01:32 PM

ebrian

If your explanation of Bargnani not getting to the line on a 2 of 19 shooting night is because he's following the plays drawn out for him, then maybe Bargnani is a great defender and good rebounder too. It's simply a matter of Casey's orders for him not to grab rebounds! Hell, that means Calderon isn't slow on his feet, he's letting guys blow by him by design!

Wed Nov 28th, 2012, 01:38 PM

Joey

Quote:

jimmie wrote:

No, not 100% on the outside, but that's not what I said. I said that the offense, any offense, is actually 'a design' that requires specific positioning by each player. This was in response to your suggestion that Bargnani simply chooses not to play in the post and/or there's no reason he can't just go there whenever he wants. But to play devil's advocate, I would guess, based on watching about 7 of this year's games, maybe 75% of the Raptors plays require Bargnani to either set up or end up on the perimeter.

And I'm still not sure how anyone on a fansite can say with any certainty that any player is "lazy" based pretty much solely on body language. I'm not saying he is or he isn't, but you don't know any more than I do. To say "it's the truth" is pretty definitive, and is what I meant when I was talking about keeping the hate (call it "criticism" if it feels better) to a reasonable level. There's plenty of concrete things to say about Bargnani's game without the hyperbole.

Finally, akash or whatever your name is -- I really hope you're 12 years old, based on how I see you 'conversing' with people on a discussion board. Otherwise, you're just a dick.

Nice post Jimmie. And welcome back to the board! If I'm not mistaken, you took a little 'leave of absense'? Haha

Wed Nov 28th, 2012, 01:43 PM

Fuchan

I finally figured out while watching the game last night why we can't win. We don't have any good players. Derozan is improving, JV and Ross WILL be good eventually Lowry has shown signs of brilliance, but also signs that he knows this team sucks, so he fires up threes thinking he's the only way they are going to win.. Bargs gets all the blame, but without him, we'd still have shitty players.

Wed Nov 28th, 2012, 04:14 PM

jimmie

Quote:

ebrian wrote:

If your explanation of Bargnani not getting to the line on a 2 of 19 shooting night is because he's following the plays drawn out for him, then maybe Bargnani is a great defender and good rebounder too. It's simply a matter of Casey's orders for him not to grab rebounds! Hell, that means Calderon isn't slow on his feet, he's letting guys blow by him by design!

Now you're being a dick, too. What part of "this isn't to back Bargnani" didn't you understand? I'm not defending his poor play, I'm simply saying that HE DOESN'T CHOOSE WHERE HE PLAYS IN A HALFCOURT SET. That's it. Trying to bring a level of basketball intelligence to the equation. The playbook, and the plays that Casey/Lowry/Calderon choose to call, determine when Bargnani is posting up or picking and rolling or picking and popping, or whatever. Not Bargnani. I don't think basketball is the free-flowing creative dance you seem to think it is.

Oh, and I guess I'm also saying people are generally trending to the panace stage right now, and it's affecting how they are discussing what's happening on the court. This place used to have a very good 'rational discussion' vs. 'rant-and-response' ratio, and now, not so much.

Wed Nov 28th, 2012, 04:21 PM

jimmie

Quote:

joey_hesketh wrote:

Nice post Jimmie. And welcome back to the board! If I'm not mistaken, you took a little 'leave of absense'? Haha

Thanks, but I'm not sure how long I'll be around. The tenor here has changed. I stopped reading RealGM for a reason. I get the anger, but I don't share it. Frustration is a better word, and even then, if they're sucking to the point where it's hard to watch, I just stop watching. I guess I'm just not that big a fan... ;-)