GregInIndy:thehobbes: Also, stop doing secondaries in whiskey barrels. If I wanted whiskey I'd order it. Rye on rye is just masking the flavor of your poor grain mix

Oh go straight to hell, troll boy. A bourbon barrel aging on the right beer can be completely incredible.

Cerebral Knievel:Its too expensive to try to use a whiskey barrel to "fix" a bad beer. What usually happens is you have some one who has no idea what they are doing poorly matching the style they wish to age, with the type of barrel they have.Also, don't let anyone tell you that aging on wood is a long held tradition of the brewmasters art and such claptrap.

beer was stored and shipped in wooden barrels because thats what you had back before the invention of kegs. they were not left overs from the distilling industry, they were purpose made and lined with pitch to keep them from leaking and the wood from contaminating the product inside.

CK- you I like. Some local hipsters are selling their swill at $6 a 12 oz bottle for craft beer aged in multiple liquor barrels. They've done gin, whiskey, and spiced rum barrels. All you can taste is the liquor. Other rye on rye combinations tend to fail at the blending of flavors and assume any ale will suffice.

I haven't found a bourbon aged beer I have liked yet. The industry tends to be making a whiskey-flavored high alcohol content beer just for the sake of doing it.

Came to realization the other day, had a flight sampler of IPAs, including ones I would purchase regularly. Couldn't tell which was which anymore. Flavors so simple, so overly hopped. It was depressing.

I imagine the next fad will be overly complex additive flavors. Already see it appearing at craft beer events. Vanilla/Cherry/Orange/Coconut Oak aged ales. That or a good sour like Great Divide's Sour Puss.

cr7pilot:CheekyMonkey: FunkyBlue: WTF Indeed: That's a lot of concern trolling over beer. However the real problem with American CRAFT beer is that everyone wants to make an IPA.

Becuase the American beer palette was basically trained for bitter, hoppy beers. We've been trained for years through commericals that Budweiser is real beer and how it's supposed to taste. So, we drink enough of it and it's what we've become accustomed to. it's also easier and cheaper to make a hop-filled lager than a decent beer, so that's what a lot of craft brewers seem to make for this market. Even their stouts are hoppy, bitter messes. All I know is that I'm sick of walking into a bar that advertises craft beers on tap and all they have are beers called "HopBomb", "HopSlam", or "HopPocalypse".

Wat? The American beer palette is trained for almost-hop-free corn-and-rice-filled light lagers. No one is making "hop-filled lagers". Unless you are so confused that you think that IPAs are lagers...

\India Pale Ale

Actually, India Pale Lagers are a thing and people are making them, especially homebrewers.

CheekyMonkey:cr7pilot: CheekyMonkey: FunkyBlue: WTF Indeed: That's a lot of concern trolling over beer. However the real problem with American CRAFT beer is that everyone wants to make an IPA.

Becuase the American beer palette was basically trained for bitter, hoppy beers. We've been trained for years through commericals that Budweiser is real beer and how it's supposed to taste. So, we drink enough of it and it's what we've become accustomed to. it's also easier and cheaper to make a hop-filled lager than a decent beer, so that's what a lot of craft brewers seem to make for this market. Even their stouts are hoppy, bitter messes. All I know is that I'm sick of walking into a bar that advertises craft beers on tap and all they have are beers called "HopBomb", "HopSlam", or "HopPocalypse".

Wat? The American beer palette is trained for almost-hop-free corn-and-rice-filled light lagers. No one is making "hop-filled lagers". Unless you are so confused that you think that IPAs are lagers...

\India Pale Ale

Actually, India Pale Lagers are a thing and people are making them, especially homebrewers.

[beerpulse.com image 575x402]

WHY?

CheekyMonkey:cr7pilot: CheekyMonkey: FunkyBlue: WTF Indeed: That's a lot of concern trolling over beer. However the real problem with American CRAFT beer is that everyone wants to make an IPA.

Becuase the American beer palette was basically trained for bitter, hoppy beers. We've been trained for years through commericals that Budweiser is real beer and how it's supposed to taste. So, we drink enough of it and it's what we've become accustomed to. it's also easier and cheaper to make a hop-filled lager than a decent beer, so that's what a lot of craft brewers seem to make for this market. Even their stouts are hoppy, bitter messes. All I know is that I'm sick of walking into a bar that advertises craft beers on tap and all they have are beers called "HopBomb", "HopSlam", or "HopPocalypse".

Wat? The American beer palette is trained for almost-hop-free corn-and-rice-filled light lagers. No one is making "hop-filled lagers". Unless you are so confused that you think that IPAs are lagers...

\India Pale Ale

Actually, India Pale Lagers are a thing and people are making them, especially homebrewers.

[beerpulse.com image 575x402]

WHY?

I didn't say I condone it, I'm just saying it's happening. If I had to guess, I'd say $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.

Just think, a whole new market of hops hipsters who don't really like ales, but want that "smooth" lager experience...with 65 IBUS.

Sadly, if someone doesn't know what they're doing with the hops, the harshness takes away a lot of that "smoothness" one would expect from a lager beer.

There are a lot of crappy over-hopped beers out there that are a complete waste of money because they are truly badly brewed beers. There are a lot of terrific IPAs out there that are really excellent beers with terrific structure and great flavor.

To me, the difference is brewers who understand that having a solid malt backbone is essential, and that hops can be added for flavor as well as aroma and bitterness. A 120 IBU beer that is thin with no malt character is going to taste like crap. Maybe some people like hop soup, who knows? But there are rules of thumb about how many IBU you should have in a beer based on the original gravity of your brew. Pay attention to that ratio and the beer will probably turn out pretty good.

I just made an IPA that was 8.3% ABV and 100 IBU. I have never brewed anything with that much bitterness before because I'm generally not a fan of it, but I wanted to show some people how it could be done properly. The majority of my hop additions came with 20 or less minutes left in the boil. Yes it was bitter, but it was teeming with flavors like grapefruit, orange, mango and amazing floral notes. I used a half pound of honey malt and a little bit of munich malt to sweeten it up a bit and give it good malt character. A friend who rants against IPAs loved it.

If you don't like bitter beers, great, everyone gets that. Don't buy them. But you are also correct to say a lot of them are horrible. If you like a little hop flavor but don't want to get overwhelmed, buy IPAs based on their IBU and keep it on the lower side of things. Maybe target beers with specific hops that have flavors you like (Citra, Centenial, Amarillo, and Cascade all being fruity instead of piney, for example).

Well said. I agree, I enjoy an IPA with some attempt at Balance. about my limit is 60-70 IBU, beyond that I might as well just drink Hop Tea

fireclown:Piss on that nonsense. The state of american beer has probably never been better. It's about choice. You want a Bud, you can always get a bud. But on the other hand, I live in the stix, and I can get various Hefes on tap, Locally brewed IPAs by the growler, and Red Flemish Beers at my liquor store. And what I can't find, I can brew.

It's a great time to be an american beer drinker.

Agreed.

I live in St. Louis. When I started drinking the only options were Anheuser-Busch beers. There was like one microbrewery in town that had just opened. I'd say 95% of what was available in bars and grocery stores were A-B product with a slight sliver for Miller Lite and Coors. Now 20 years later there are a myriad of options available everywhere and it seems like a new microbrewery opens every few months.

It's not even shocking to walk into a bar and see every tap be local/regional microbrews or other craft beers.

Just when I think I've had every Shiner out there... I haven't tried or even seen that one before.

It's only out in spring and summer I believe, just came out last week for this season. Shiner makes some darn good beers, with the exception of that bbq flavored one and I'm not a huge fan of their hefe.

WTF Indeed:That's a lot of concern trolling over beer. However the real problem with American CRAFT beer is that everyone wants to make an IPA.

Much like CAPS LOCK IS CRUISE CONTROL FOR COOL for people who don't really know how to internet, IPA's are pretty much the entire playbook for people that can't really make beer. There's a place in the market for them, but it's real easy to burn out when 3 out of every 4 craft beers out there tastes like a liquified pine tree.

HaywoodJablonski:Without looking, I'd guess the sorry state of American beer is Mississippi. Or maybe Connecticut with its blue laws. Utah and its members only bars?

You'll be shocked to learn that Utah did away with membership in 2009. You can just walk in now. Sadly, that law changing hasn't led to a bunch of new bars opening. We do have two great beer bars in SLC, but that's about it. Otherwise, it's very hit and miss.

JackieRabbit:Don't know what article you are referring to. A beer can be mass-produced and still be quite good, as the Mexicans, Asians, and Europeans prove. Even some American beers are quite good. But the most popular ones scarcely qualify as beer. They are just malted beverages. Sorry, but if you are adding sugar to your beer after it has been brewed and before bottling, you aren't selling a real beer. There is never any good excuse to use artificial ingredients in beer, wine or spirits. A good brewer or distiller doesn't need them.

cr7pilot:HaywoodJablonski: Without looking, I'd guess the sorry state of American beer is Mississippi. Or maybe Connecticut with its blue laws. Utah and its members only bars?

You'll be shocked to learn that Utah did away with membership in 2009. You can just walk in now. Sadly, that law changing hasn't led to a bunch of new bars opening. We do have two great beer bars in SLC, but that's about it. Otherwise, it's very hit and miss.

That's good news! I still have no reason to visit your state, but good news nonetheless.

Remember a while back the fad was to create beers that were 10%+ alcohol with no regards to flavor or balance? Eventually the fad diminished and the bad ones were mostly weeded out and we were left with the handful that weren't so putrid.

I am seeing more and more craft breweries putting put Belgian styles and imperials. I just grabbed a American made sour last night even.

I'm hoping that sour beers start making inroads against the IPA shiatbombs. Even a single shiatty sour on tap means one less shiatty IPA polluting the beer world.

FunkyBlue:WTF Indeed: That's a lot of concern trolling over beer. However the real problem with American CRAFT beer is that everyone wants to make an IPA.

Becuase the American beer palette was basically trained for bitter, hoppy beers. We've been trained for years through commericals that Budweiser is real beer and how it's supposed to taste. So, we drink enough of it and it's what we've become accustomed to. it's also easier and cheaper to make a hop-filled lager than a decent beer, so that's what a lot of craft brewers seem to make for this market. Even their stouts are hoppy, bitter messes. All I know is that I'm sick of walking into a bar that advertises craft beers on tap and all they have are beers called "HopBomb", "HopSlam", or "HopPocalypse".

This...or..no, how about exactly the opposite.

The American beer palette was trained for light and non-hoppy beers. Bud/Miller/Coors are not hoppy nor bitter. They are brewed to appeal to people who don't really like beer at all.

The rise of the macro beer was in lock step with the rise of Velveeta cheese and Wonder Bread.

voodoohotdog:CruJones: I have no trouble finding a good beer, ever. Just keep your mountain of hops out, thanks.

I couldn't agree more. 65% of my sales (in a very small venue) are craft beers. I've asked my reps, why this (the over hopping) is going on. First you get the official answer; "It makes a distinctive product that discerning drinkers can easily differentiate from the others."

But for them what i think it's about is the fact that IPA's ship and store better. Something about the hops. On the consumer side it's like the hot sauce crowd. "Look what I can tolerate!" It becomes a status symbol to be able to drink an ale that literally tastes like a grapefruit it is so hoppy.

Well, it makes sense. IPA stands for India Pale Ale, it was developed as a beer that could be shipped from England to India on sailing ships, and survive the months of transit without being spoiled.

HaywoodJablonski:cr7pilot: HaywoodJablonski: Without looking, I'd guess the sorry state of American beer is Mississippi. Or maybe Connecticut with its blue laws. Utah and its members only bars?

You'll be shocked to learn that Utah did away with membership in 2009. You can just walk in now. Sadly, that law changing hasn't led to a bunch of new bars opening. We do have two great beer bars in SLC, but that's about it. Otherwise, it's very hit and miss.

That's good news! I still have no reason to visit your state, but good news nonetheless.

True, there aren't many good reasons to visit Utah. Great skiing and hot Mormon girls are about it. Beer, not so much. Actually, we have a couple of awesome breweries here, but you can get most of their stuff out of state, so no reason to come to Utah for it.

NakedDrummer:JackieRabbit: Don't know what article you are referring to. A beer can be mass-produced and still be quite good, as the Mexicans, Asians, and Europeans prove. Even some American beers are quite good. But the most popular ones scarcely qualify as beer. They are just malted beverages. Sorry, but if you are adding sugar to your beer after it has been brewed and before bottling, you aren't selling a real beer. There is never any good excuse to use artificial ingredients in beer, wine or spirits. A good brewer or distiller doesn't need them.

Is it true that Stella Artois, which is marketed as an upscale beer in America, is actually a crappy cheap beer in the rest of the world? Like it's the European version of Milwaukee's Best and Natty Light?

DrunkWithImpotence:Well, it makes sense. IPA stands for India Pale Ale, it was developed as a beer that could be shipped from England to India on sailing ships, and survive the months of transit without being spoiled.

Now it just stands for "how much hops can fit in this vat?"

This myth needs to be stomped out.DrunkWithImpotence:voodoohotdog: CruJones: I have no trouble finding a good beer, ever. Just keep your mountain of hops out, thanks.

I couldn't agree more. 65% of my sales (in a very small venue) are craft beers. I've asked my reps, why this (the over hopping) is going on. First you get the official answer; "It makes a distinctive product that discerning drinkers can easily differentiate from the others."

But for them what i think it's about is the fact that IPA's ship and store better. Something about the hops. On the consumer side it's like the hot sauce crowd. "Look what I can tolerate!" It becomes a status symbol to be able to drink an ale that literally tastes like a grapefruit it is so hoppy.

Well, it makes sense. IPA stands for India Pale Ale, it was developed as a beer that could be shipped from England to India on sailing ships, and survive the months of transit without being spoiled.

Now it just stands for "how much hops can fit in this vat?"

This myth needs to stop. Most of the beers originally shipped to India were porters, and they had no problems surviving the trip. IPA ended up being popular in India because pale beers tend to do well in hot climates, and a multitude of other reasons.

mjohnson71:NakedDrummer: JackieRabbit: Don't know what article you are referring to. A beer can be mass-produced and still be quite good, as the Mexicans, Asians, and Europeans prove. Even some American beers are quite good. But the most popular ones scarcely qualify as beer. They are just malted beverages. Sorry, but if you are adding sugar to your beer after it has been brewed and before bottling, you aren't selling a real beer. There is never any good excuse to use artificial ingredients in beer, wine or spirits. A good brewer or distiller doesn't need them.

Is it true that Stella Artois, which is marketed as an upscale beer in America, is actually a crappy cheap beer in the rest of the world? Like it's the European version of Milwaukee's Best and Natty Light?

It's just another typical lager like Budweiser or Heineken, which ironically is brewed by InBev, the same Belgian company that owns Budweiser. Like Heineken, they slap the "Import" label on it cause it's from elsewhere and charge a little premium on it. But the same goes for Budweiser when it's sold overseas.

So the problem seems to be distribution since small stores are smaller than large stores which are larger, but that could be all fixed is if the small stores didn't carry so much of the beer people actually like to drink. O.K.

I can deal with beer snobs. Hey some of those beers actually do taste much better, but if people drank alcohol for the taste, then explain the popularity of Vodka, which is celebrated for having as little taste as possible. I've known idjits to run it through a Brita filter thinking that will make it better. Hence the fondness for less flavorful beers with "drinkability", which is a concept beginning in the 19th century. Strong flavors slow the rate of consumption and produce satisfaction sooner. Now when I lose my patience is when I hear people go from praising the virtues of the microbrewery to tossing up quotes like "private property is theft". The microbrewery is an example of a product being produced in one of the best possible ways. Sure, It costs more to make, but most drinkers overindulge anyway with the cheap brews

There is one and only one true problem with the beer industry. This artificial distribution system put in place as a compromise to end prohibition enables the mega brewers to build oligarchies. Modern environmental manipulation has affected people's taste as well. How many beer snobs will ramble on about strong dark beers in summer time while they live in air conditioning? Most places with strong brewing traditions brewed beers to season. Now, our lives are lived at constant temperatures and we drink beers with constant tones. (O.K. some of you drink beers constantly as well)

I_Lurk_At_Work:This myth needs to stop. Most of the beers originally shipped to India were porters, and they had no problems surviving the trip. IPA ended up being popular in India because pale beers tend to do well in hot climates, and a multitude of other reasons.

I also recall reading that there was a brewer in England who came up with the concept of using more hops depending upon the season; the warmer the weather was, the more hops they'd use. The rule of thumb was something like 1 pound of hops per barrel for winter beers, 1.5 for Spring, 2 for Summer, 2.5 for late summer, etc. I think India beers had 3 or 4 pounds per barrel simply because their climate was warmer year round. I can't find the reference right now, though, and I am not sure if it's accurate. But in any case, you're right-- it had nothing to do with the hops' qualities of preserving beer.

CheekyMonkey:'India Pale Lager' sounds like something dreamed up by a marketing team, likely the same one who came up with "ice", "dry" and "lite". Brand extension BS.

It's an interesting idea, and I have had a couple that were good beers, but not quite my style. Lagers to me are good because they have a crisp. clean, drinkability. Pilsners especially because they are so hard to get exactly right. You can't hide much in a pilsner. So adding an overly hopped flavor doesn't seem to work well with it, especially since (in my opinion) a sweet malt backbone is essential to having a good IPA.