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Author
Topic: An Open Letter to Poz Magazine and the Members of thinkpoz.com (Read 60911 times)

I created the website thinkpoz.com because I felt something was missing. I felt there needed to be a website for us to come together and socialize, not necessarily to just seek medical information and treatment options. I wanted us to have a true social networking community. I wanted us to meet others, make friends, fall in love, whatever... I guess there are some who are threatened by the fact that we may have created something special. I just don't understand why others would seek to stop what we are doing. However, I must report that today I received word that Poz Magazine believes they own the word poz, in any and all forms. I thought poz was what we were, a state of being. I see other companies and websites utilizing the word poz, however, it's us that have drawn the attention of Poz Magazine. I am almost certain that they trademarked AIDSMEDS too, I guess they own the word AIDS now! As an attorney, I have fought Trademark cases, and I am sad to tell you its not always about who is right, most often it's about who has the most attorneys and the most money to kill the other with litigation. I am not a rich man and to be honest they could probably bankrupt me with litigation costs. I am however a man of principle. A person who believes in right and wrong. Tonite I feel ashamed. I am ashamed that a company built supposedly to help benefit people living with HIV and AIDS is attempting to stop what I am trying to build, and I believe the only reason is that they wish to keep the monopoly they have on making money off people living with HIV and AIDS. They want to keep all the advertisers and they fear we could somehow succeed here. I truly began this website to benefit others. Yes, I would love to have sponsers to help with the costs and make the website better, but this was never about money for me. After reading many of the emails you have sent me and remembering that there is more to life than money, I have decided I will not change the name. If Poz Magazine and Poz.com wish to pick a fight with us, well I guess I will have to fight back. I know most of you understand the importance of what we are building here and I know you will stand behind me and fight with me. So, I ask you please to let Poz.com, Poz Magazine and AIDSMEDS know just what you think about their efforts to shut us down. You let them know we are fighters, and that they have lost the focus of what they came into business for, for us. I will not change the name of this website. I hope you respect that.

I created the website thinkpoz.com because I felt something was missing. I felt there needed to be a website for us to come together and socialize, not necessarily to just seek medical information and treatment options. I wanted us to have a true social networking community. I wanted us to meet others, make friends, fall in love, whatever... I guess there are some who are threatened by the fact that we may have created something special. I just don't understand why others would seek to stop what we are doing. However, I must report that today I received word that Poz Magazine believes they own the word poz, in any and all forms. I thought poz was what we were, a state of being. I see other companies and websites utilizing the word poz, however, it's us that have drawn the attention of Poz Magazine. I am almost certain that they trademarked AIDSMEDS too, I guess they own the word AIDS now! As an attorney, I have fought Trademark cases, and I am sad to tell you its not always about who is right, most often it's about who has the most attorneys and the most money to kill the other with litigation. I am not a rich man and to be honest they could probably bankrupt me with litigation costs. I am however a man of principle. A person who believes in right and wrong. Tonite I feel ashamed. I am ashamed that a company built supposedly to help benefit people living with HIV and AIDS is attempting to stop what I am trying to build, and I believe the only reason is that they wish to keep the monopoly they have on making money off people living with HIV and AIDS. They want to keep all the advertisers and they fear we could somehow succeed here. I truly began this website to benefit others. Yes, I would love to have sponsers to help with the costs and make the website better, but this was never about money for me. After reading many of the emails you have sent me and remembering that there is more to life than money, I have decided I will not change the name. If Poz Magazine and Poz.com wish to pick a fight with us, well I guess I will have to fight back. I know most of you understand the importance of what we are building here and I know you will stand behind me and fight with me. So, I ask you please to let Poz.com, Poz Magazine and AIDSMEDS know just what you think about their efforts to shut us down. You let them know we are fighters, and that they have lost the focus of what they came into business for, for us. I will not change the name of this website. I hope you respect that.

Um, whilst I have no reason to doubt you (nor any reason to take up the cudgels on your behalf) how do you think posting this here will be constructive?

Having read through your last postings through November, I have fairly strong opinions. Good luck on your journey. But the real fight is that virus, not anyone or anything else. As one year post diagnosis, I respectfully submit you have other fish to fry.

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"Many people, especially in the gay community, turn to oral sex as a safer alternative in the age of AIDS. And with HIV rates rising, people need to remember that oral sex is safer sex. It's a reasonable alternative."

As a matter of disclosure, I have joined thinkpoz.com as a member. I do not know Ray, the creator of thinkpoz.com, and have no vested interest. All I can say that his website was welcoming to me and seems no more or less legitimate than this one.

But in light of the recent CSI debacle, I am worried. Ray has nothing to be worried about legal action regarding "poz" (that's ridiculous), but I am concerned about the source of the email. I hope Ray will elaborate to the best of his ability. When you have legal action in your face and limited resources....well I think we all know what "chillling effect" means.

I hope that AIDSmeds/POZ is not a part of this, and it is a misunderstanding.

As a matter of disclosure, I have joined thinkpoz.com as a member. I do not know Ray, the creator of thinkpoz.com, and have no vested interest. All I can say that his website was welcoming to me and seems no more or less legitimate than this one.

I hope that AIDSmeds/POZ is not a part of this, and it is a misunderstanding.

I agree... I also have recently joined thinkpoz and it has been a positive experience.I don't know anything about Trademark/Copyrite law, and I don't care about it. What concerns me is that an entity which I THOUGHT existed for the betterment of HIV+ (is the + sign Trademarked yet?) people, would go after a little guy because he wants to give us a place to go.

If Smart + Strong means to squash other web sites that utilize the common term POZ or POS or AIDS, then I submit that they have seriously too much time on their hands.

I chose to cast my lot with AIDSMEDS because of the careful research that goes into the LESSONS, and the hard work I personally did to bring first tiered peer-reviewed scientific credibility to the transmissions and testing part of the forum.

I am not blowing my own horn here. I am very proud of that stuff.

As for the support sections, honestly? I am glad I am a guy and able to pee long distances, as that seems to be a defining feature.

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"Many people, especially in the gay community, turn to oral sex as a safer alternative in the age of AIDS. And with HIV rates rising, people need to remember that oral sex is safer sex. It's a reasonable alternative."

Ray, as an attorney I assume that you know what your major misstep has been: you have 'used' aidsmeds.com to launch two internet ventures of your own, through posts, through your profile and perhaps other ways. You may have also contacted members of the forums about your sites, members with whom contact was possible because of aidsmeds.com From what I understand, both ventures of yours are currently free, are not money making ventures for you, but since the potential for them to make money is always there....

When I realised that, as a bodyworker, the main massage/bodywork website for male practitioners seeking male clients was inactive, non-working masseurs being retained, working masseurs unable to add themselves to it, I created one and then two websites targeting the exact same markets. I 'used' the existing website as the basis to design mine. But I never 'used' the existing site to build membership on mine: I simply contacted masseurs and bodyworkers from every resource I could find. Apparently the model I created worked, because not many years afterwards, two new websites were launched as 'for fee' ventures, where mine and the original website were and are free to use and link from. Not that different from HP moving from copiers to notebooks and now software. Since 'bodywork' and 'massage' are general words, none of us could claim to own the terms/words.

In your case, having used poz.com and aidsmeds.com to launch your websites, since the term 'poz' is not as general as hiv positive and since your first website would seem to have lifted the actual name of a forum here, I Just Tested Poz, I would encourage you to not waste your funds fighting things and perhaps take what you are doing and simply change the names to create a clear distance between yourself and poz.com. Best, Win

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Winthrop Smith has published three collections of poetry: Ghetto: From The First Five; The Weigh-In: Collected Poems; Skin Check: New York Poems. The last was published in December 2006. He has a work-in-progress underway titled Starting Positions.

I am also a member of Thinkpoz.com I dont understand why Ray should change the name. I was diagnosed a little over a year ago and this website it truly unique. It is a Great bunch of people that could chat instead of posting a question and waiting for a responce. I made some great friends that i enjoy talking with everyday. It's not like I still dont go on Poz Mag site I enjoy reading the forums there too. Ray keep up the fight to keep us together!!!! Marlene

I have found the responses to this thread really incredible!! Obnoxious! Callous! Thoughtless!! How dare Poz magazine try to "own" the word poz? And since there is no other way to publicize places like thinkpoz - but what makes me angry is the weird humor post after post - not funny, and actually offensive! I've started to dislike this site alot. I need to vent about this, because it is all making me very sad today. I have disagreed with all of the attacks on the original poster, and I think people should be ashamed of themselves!!

I don't give a rat's butt if somebody uses the word 'poz' in the address of their website. I would hope that others wouldn't, either. Maybe Ray should change the name to something "thinkaids.com". No, that's got part of the aidsmeds.com name in it. Maybe a name like 'livingwithadeadlyvirus.com' would be good. I wonder about aidsmeds.com, in its infant startup days. I'm curious if the founders ever posted the words aidsmeds.com on any other website?

I'm not knocking aidsmeds.com or what it's meant to me. I think that since being 'purchased' by poz.com, the BIG picture (focus) may have changed some ($$$). JK, the lessons are invaluable to many, but the other site, supposedly, is a social site. I don't see how one more social outlet can be so bad. On the other hand, what if Ray eventually did make some money from his website about HIV / AIDS. That would be another story. We all know NO website would do that, right? Surely there's something more to this story than what we've been told, at least I hope so.

I think the only ethically questionable tactic was contacting members here to build another, potentially lucrative website. In a sense, it is like stealing the rolodex of your employer. Though the founders of this website have sold it to a bigger entity, a lot of work went in creating this website from the ground up. The trademark law states that if a product could reasonably be mistaken for another similar product then there is cause for concern. In other words the POZ name for an airport is of no concern, because the products are in no way similar. What Ray did (and I don't know what his intentions were or are, seem to be ethically questionable). Saying he is not in it for the money is really innacurate at best. Think if you started a successful business and someone decided to do this to you. How would you feel?

As far as the the term poz is concerned, it started before the magazine, however if they trademarked it (which I am sure they have) there could be other issues. Names belong to whoever trademarked it, thinkpoz some would argue is much too similar to not cause confusion. It could come up when doing a search engine with "poz".

The argument that this website has lost something and another one needs to emerge, is just an excuse to start another money making venture. Ain't no shame in making money, but call it what it is and don't proposition members here, as you did with me when I first joined this website.

There are lots of fantastic people here. I have had my differences with others, but I got the support especially at the beginning, and it has made an impact on my life in dealing with this disease.

I joined thinkpoz.com. It is a very nice site something like myspace but much better it is for people like me and you living with hiv, where we can go and have fun and chat and talk about our problems and there is always someone to listen to you. This site is not a forum or lessons site its more of a friendship site where we can chat and have fun. POZ is what we are we can not change that we are what we are POZ.

Who said Ray was stealing clients from poz or aidsmeds? This is America land of the free. It is your right too choose which site you want to join. No one is putting a gun to your head or twisting your arm to join. As far as memberships and subscribitons goes for people living with HIV well that is a shame. Most of us out there barely can afford to go out and eat or have a nice place to live.

I will always look askance at those who use this forum to advertise another forum.

Is it illegal? I don't know. But it rubs me the wrong way.

When I decided to come back here, it was for the occasional educational experience and discussion of issues relevant to me and HIV. Any socializing is purely incidental.

PS: Thanks Newt. I was collecting a list of web sites and social online forums with the words "POZ" or "AIDS" in them. I am glad you posted yours.

Now that the dirty laundry is out, I would be interested to know what's really going on.

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"Many people, especially in the gay community, turn to oral sex as a safer alternative in the age of AIDS. And with HIV rates rising, people need to remember that oral sex is safer sex. It's a reasonable alternative."

I agree with Jonathan. There's got to be more to this story than what we have so far, and I would like to know what it's really all about. As Newt pointed out, there are already tons of sites that use Poz and Positive in their titles. There has to be more to this than that.

As a sidenote: I'm curious to learn more about the "weird humor" bit that bravebuddahrich was referencing in this thread that was so offensive. I didn't see it. What am I missing?

There is probably more to the story, especially considering that the original posting is a bit vague. This is an interesting topic though.

I believe S+S could have a trademark for Poz, since it is a distinct reference to their magazine (Poz). Bu I can't imagine it would be good business practice to sue people living with HIV simply because they used the word Poz for (insignificant) commercial reasons, especially considering how many folks have websites/blogs/email addys, etc.. with that word. Is it possible that it may be too commonly used (commercial use that is) for a trademark to be enforceable?

I don't understand the animosity towards ray held by some posters in this thread. Thinkpoz.com was set up with excellent intentions and Ray did not hawk it innumerable times or claim it was an alternative to AM. Thinkpoz is not competing with AM or poz.com in any way. Ray would be a fool if he set up the site thinking he'd profit from it in the future and I seriously doubt he has any such thoughts. He spent his own money to create a new space for poz people to interact with each other and I commend him for his efforts.

I may be mistaken but I didn't receive an email message about thinkpoz even though my email address displays in my profile. I joined thinkpoz.com based on Ray's mention of it in a post. A few months ago another new poz site retrieved my address from AM and solicited my participation. I put my email address in my profile knowing such events might happen.

Ray has not done anything wrong and it's absurd if S+S is claiming ownership of "poz" and demanding he rename his site. Besides being unfair such a request would require Ray to incur more expense than he already has and changing a web address is a pain in the buttocks. He is an individual with limited resources and is a veritable David challenging the Goliath of S+S., or, rather Goliath is challenging David in this case.

Boo

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String up every aristocrat!Out with the priests and let them live on their fat!

1) What we know at the moment is hearsay: 'However, I must report that today I received word that Poz Magazine believes they own the word poz, in any and all forms.' What exactly S & S believes, is doing, is not doing, is an unknown and until we get some direct clarification or actual documents to look at, as we would a med. study, we can only reply to what one side seems to be telling us.

2) I mentioned my own websites to show that I do understand how one website or business and its perceived gaps does lead to new websites and businesses. That's great, should be encouraged, supported and I sent a p.m. to Ray to make clear that I could see a logical legal argument as must he, so he certainly could try other options if need be, such as not using poz.com as a stepping point for his ventures or using a url which embraces what he is doing without clipping things over here. Again, his first site almost quotes a forum name and was promoted from here. Best, Win

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Winthrop Smith has published three collections of poetry: Ghetto: From The First Five; The Weigh-In: Collected Poems; Skin Check: New York Poems. The last was published in December 2006. He has a work-in-progress underway titled Starting Positions.

I agree with Win. We only have one side of the story. Im not saying its incorrect but I usually prefer to have BOTH sides before I get too worked up about it.

It may be a standard letter the attorneys send out to anyone they find with the word poz in the webaddress. I know as an employer we have standard non compete letters we send out to former employees. They generally dont mean much. I dont think this is the DAVID vs. GOLIATH story some are making it out to be.

I would caution everyone to remember there are always two sides to a story. I don't have feelings one way or the other for ray but even if it is all true, as someone poignantly pointed out in an earlier thread "this is America" is it really such a shock that attorneys are involved? It IS America.......

Edited to add.... he says he received "word" about this situation. So we don't even know if it was a letter or an email or a phone conversation. nor do we know the authenticity of this "word". Again, nothing one way or the other for ray just want the whole story.

« Last Edit: February 28, 2007, 11:49:00 AM by ACinKC »

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LIFE is not a race to the grave with the intention of arriving safelyin a pretty and well-preserved body, but, rather to skid in broadside,thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming--WOW! WHAT ARIDE!!!

FWIW, this is the first I've heard of this new website, so Ray sure hasn't reached all of us. I'm online often and read most posts, but I don't recall ever reading about his site. I do lose track of what's going on when I'm out of town (no internet), so I might have missed something.

If he's violated a TOS or something by 'soliciting' his site, surely he'd been warned or given a time out, right? Lawyers wouldn't be involved if that's all there is to it. So ethical or not, soliciting his site here probably isn't the issue for legal involvement.

Surely we'll here something from the folks at POZ... or maybe they've been advised no to publically comment.

Like AC says, it could be one of those standard letters that are sent out to scare folks, but who knows.

Just for reference, this is a link to an early thread where the ''this site vs that site'' thing came into play. For the record, I have joined up at the other site. I have not spent very much time on it yet.

When I was diagnosed and searching for a support group on the net, I searched "HIV/AIDS support" and thinkpoz was one of the first sites that came up. I joined and while chatting with Ray that first day, I asked if there were any other sites and he informed me of this one. I don't know if anyone can trademark the word "Poz" or not, but as long as he is not asking members for money to be a part of his site, what is the harm, it might just help the next poor soul who has just been diagnosed and looking for support. In my experience when I was looking, I thought it was pretty sad that there were so few results when searching "HIV/AIDS support" on the net. It made me feel even more isolated than I did after hearing my diagnosis. I can come here for medical advice and support, and go to his site if I want to chat instantly with someone. Being newly diagnosed, I think its rather disturbing that anyone would want to shut down a site that allows us to get together to help each other whether it be for medical advice or just chatting. Yes, you can private message here, but you cannot instantly chat with someone, so his site does offer something that you can not do here and sometimes I would like to chat with someone and not have to wait for hours for a reply. His site is also designed to be like "Myspace", but for us, should Myspace sue him also?

One thing I think we all can agree on is that we all are in the same boat here and we should be supporting each other. Whether he tried to "solicit" members from this site, I don't know. I do know how ever that when I asked him for info on any other sites, he did tell me about this one, not that he had to. Being a member of the "Gay community" and the fight for acceptance we face in this world, I would thing that the "Poz community" would be more understanding that we all need as many places as possible to find support and love. My whole world was turned upside down in Dec. 06, and finding others that could relate with what I was going thru and feeling was very important and helped me realize that I was not as isolated as I originally thought. If Ray does happen to make money from "Advertisers" on his site in the future, whats the harm to this site? ABC advertises on CBS, CBS advertises on NBC, NBC advertises on FOX, etc., and how many different channels does Trojan advertise on? Whats the big f**king deal? His site was formed to give us, "the Poz community", a place to find others going thru the same things we are and help and support each other. God Bless him for that.

Well guys, this is really something that has always been a part and parcel of Capitalism. I can remember when Mc Donalds was making an attempt to sue everyone in Scotland whose name was Mc Donald.

When I was working for Xerox many years ago, we were admonished to make sure our customers were not using Xerox as a noun, pronoun, verb, adverb, adjective or any other use than to state the name of the company. Now, over 30 years later, xerox is accepted all over the globe as a synonym of "Copy" and if you are in India and ask for a xerox of any given piece of paper, they understand that you are requesting a copy of said piece of paper.

Kleenex likewise has been one that fought tooth and nail to keep their name from becoming a word that meant "tissue", but to no avail.

Capitalism is by nature a system that encourages name usage and adaptation, but corporations fighting this natural progression is also part of the nature of the beast.

As far as what Ray has done, I say good for him and I support not only his site, but also this one, and The Body, and just about all the other ones that bring attention to this pandemic. What really disturbs me is that S&S is so interested in profits and protection of an obviously global three letter word, that they have been instrumental in integrating into the grammer of the globe; that they would risk being responsible for raising the stress levels of an HIV+ person (Ray) to possibly dangerous levels. I wonder if anyone over there at S&S would visit him in the hospital due to the possible damage to his health resulting from this really stupid and nasty fight? I don't know, but I bet I know the answer.

Win brought up some important issues around the legality of all this, but still, Newt has offered nutralizing points in his world wide list of the use of said three letter word. I hope to find out if S&S is going to take legal action beyond the shores of Manhattan Island for all those off shore also.

This whole thing is an exercise in Mental Masturbation.

Just my view.

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The Bible contains 6 admonishments to homosexuals,and 362 to heterosexuals.This doesn't mean that God doesn't love heterosexuals, It's just that they need more supervision.Lynn Lavne

I created the website thinkpoz.com because I felt something was missing. I felt there needed to be a website for us to come together and socialize, not necessarily to just seek medical information and treatment options. I wanted us to have a true social networking community. I wanted us to meet others, make friends, fall in love, whatever

I think the original post and this first few sentences CLEARLY state that thinkpoz's mission is in any way infringing on what this site provides.

Like I said above, if it is strictly a "name" thing then S & S are just a few years late and a lot of dollars short of a full account.

Love.

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The Bible contains 6 admonishments to homosexuals,and 362 to heterosexuals.This doesn't mean that God doesn't love heterosexuals, It's just that they need more supervision.Lynn Lavne

P.S. I agree we have only one side of the story so hope ray can share more with us but my views were qualified by "if," meaning if Ray's story is accurate I feel S+S is over-reacting.

Boo, come and join me on the Daark Siide and feel the true power of the force!

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LIFE is not a race to the grave with the intention of arriving safelyin a pretty and well-preserved body, but, rather to skid in broadside,thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming--WOW! WHAT ARIDE!!!

Ray it looks like you changed the name once already. from www.justtestedpositive.com to thinkpoz.com. Why the change in the first place and Why not change again?

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LIFE is not a race to the grave with the intention of arriving safelyin a pretty and well-preserved body, but, rather to skid in broadside,thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming--WOW! WHAT ARIDE!!!

I don't have nearly the information I'd like to see about this. I'm not sure that evenhalf the story is given here. In his initial post Ray says that "I must report that today I received word that Poz Magazine believes they own the word poz, in any and all forms."What type of communication did you receive, Ray? Can you provide some of the details?And there's been no information offered up by Smart and Strong on this matter. So untilI see many more details, my opinion would only be speculation. But it hard to imagine thatanyone (person or business) owns the word "poz". Given the intricacies of intellectualproperty law, however, I just don't know.

I will say that I am always skeptical about what attorneys say in public. In my experiencethe primary purpose of such communications are usually to sway public opinion, with thedissemination of facts being only secondary. My point? Both sides need to offer up a lotmore information about what is going on here, before I can make up my own mind about this.

Regards,

Henry

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"Life in Lubbock, Texas, taught me two things: One is that God loves you and you're going to burn in hell. The other is that sex is the most awful, filthy thing on earth and you should save it for someone you love." - Butch Hancock, Musician, The Flatlanders

Ray it looks like you changed the name once already. from www.justtestedpositive.com to thinkpoz.com. Why the change in the first place and Why not change again?

Ray has said sometime back that he changed the name because he felt the old moniker came across as too narrow- as a social site only for those fresh on the High Five scene. He wanted to make sure that those who had been poz (am I making a copyright infringment here?) for a long time were aware that the site was for them also.

I'm sure after making such a change already, he is far from eager to start that process anew.

Ray has said sometime back that he changed the name because he felt the old moniker came across as too narrow- as a social site only for those fresh on the High Five scene. He wanted to make sure that those who had been poz (am I making a copyright infringment here?) for a long time were aware that the site was for them also.

I'm sure after making such a change already, he is far from eager to start that process anew.

Gotcha.

And for what its worth I think this will all be much ado about nothing. Mark my words. Nothing will come of any of it. But the debate is fun I guess.

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LIFE is not a race to the grave with the intention of arriving safelyin a pretty and well-preserved body, but, rather to skid in broadside,thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming--WOW! WHAT ARIDE!!!

when I first joined Aidsmeds we had a chat room. This was with the old software. No one used it. Actually I used it quite a few times when I first joined. I met James (Opalcat) there and we would talk and talk and talk. We had both joined around the same time and had similar experiences and the "chat" function was very, very vital in answering our questions, allaying our fears and bringing us together. James isn't on here much anymore but we still chat at least once a week by phone.

Chat rooms and HIV/AIDS go hand in hands. For whatever reason Aidsmeds couldn't make it work. When they got their new software they left it out completely. Didn't even offer it, much less ask us if we wanted it. Now Ray is providing that opportunity. Good for him.

I use the PM function like chat on here all the time...almost as quickly as that on occasion. My PM box is hovering somewhere around around 1,500 or so right now. It's caught me a time or two! I learned the hard way that more than 20 PM's an hour is verboten.