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T O P I C R E V I E W

ilbasso

I have two items for support teams that were labeled STS-14 and STS-17.

I have read that even though NASA changed the public numbering system from STS-11 through the Challenger disaster, they still kept an internal numbering system that was in numerical order, although I have never seen that listing of missions.

Does anyone know to what flights/missions STS-14 and STS-17 corresponded? I doubt that my items were associated with the missions that were canceled due to the late start of the Shuttle program. My items were for the support teams that I suppose would not have been assigned until the mission planning was well underway.

heng44

In my files I have several mission-photos for STS-41D that have an S14-xxx ID-number. And the same goes for STS-41G (S17-xxx).

Hart Sastrowardoyo

I have a shuttle orbit map labeled STS-16(41-F).

So, STS-14 would correspond to 41D, even though the patch has only 12 stars from when it was STS-12. Similarly, STS-17, with its 17 stars became Mission 41G.

I have seen a bunch of STS overviews with the following numbers and Mission equivalents:

51L was STS-33, so there were eight missions canceled or postponed. My best guess is that these included:

STS-10STS-12STS-15 (41E)STS-16 (41F)STS-18 (41H)STS-29? (51K)

Unsure how/where STS-21, 22 and 23 fits in, although one of those numbers was probably given to Mission 51E. Also of note is under this system, Mission 61D/Spacelab 4 was apparently never given an STS number.

Now if we can only figure out why the patch for 51I has 19 stars when it was the 20th flight of a shuttle. Either it was intended to be the 19th flight, or the crew was to flown STS-19....

ilbasso

Thanks - very helpful!

It's interesting that one of the explicit reasons for the change in numbering is that management did not want to have another "13" flight, so the new numbering system went into place before STS-13 would have come up. And yet, there never was an STS-13 even with the internal numbering system.

hoorenz

41C was STS-13. As a joke, even in all communications with mission control, the number 13 was replaced by "41C".

When Solar Max had been captured, this message was relayed to the ground: ,,Forward RCS propellant remaining is 41 Charlie." (13 percent).

And: ,,Welcome back on Friday the 41 Charlie", capcom Guy Gardner radioed to the crew following landing on Friday April 13, 1984.

I never believed the numbering system had anything to do with avoiding STS-13, but reading a couple of the JSC oral history accounts, I can only conclude it is really true.

Hart Sastrowardoyo

And if you look at the Rockwell press kits from the early flights, while I don't remember an STS-13, I do remember seeing in the future flights section crewmembers announced for STS-18 and -24, which were planned as Spacelab flights. So at some point they would have had to use an STS-13.

(They also listed an STS-10 sans PS, although I don't recall whether the same thing happened with STS-12.)

Anybody know how the "backronym" 41A came to represent STS-9?

manilajim

Why did they make it so confusing with the numbering system? It would make so much more sense (or so it would seem to me) to start with 1 and go in sequential order. Even if they have to shuffle flights around a little it is still more sensible than mixing numbers and letters in such a mishmash that there is nothing that even chronologically resembles an order that a reasonable minded person could follow.

Hart Sastrowardoyo

My understanding is that the switch was to avoid confusion, only to cause more of it. NASA was looking at a flight schedule of STS-11, -13, -14... and changed it to 41-B, 41-C, 41-D, which at least (initially) the letters in alphabetical order.

What's even more confusing is that the alphanumeric code designated (for the most part), the payload and not the flight. One example is that the original 51D (Brandenstein) was to be an LDEF retrieval; when Shaw was named as 51D commander, and the crew changed to what flew as 61B, their task was still the LDEF retrieval.

Had Vandenberg been used as a launch site, Crippen would have flown two STS-1s: STS-1 and STS-1V. Thank goodness it was forecast to have flown only 20 missions a year from KSC and four from VAFB, because an STS-91V and an STS-16V the same year would have just added to the confusion...

KSCartist

The way I understand it, the switch was made in part because they were planning to launch from multiple sites. KSC was launch site 1 and Vandenburg was launch site 2.

Hart when Crippen invited me to submit art for the first Vandenburg mission it's official designation was STS-62A (6 the fiscal year of manifest, 2 the launch site, A the (first) payload manifested. But he did say they often referred to the flight as "V-1".

The letter A, B, C, etc. was the payloads manifested in order. So while 51D flew before 51B, 51B was manifested first.

It was a noble attempt to provide clarity but it failed.

Hart Sastrowardoyo

quote:Originally posted by KSCartist:Hart when Crippen invited me to submit art for the first Vandenburg mission it's official designation was STS-62A (6 the fiscal year of manifest, 2 the launch site, A the (first) payload manifested. But he did say they often referred to the flight as "V-1".

I wish I still had my Rockwell 1984 manifest which is where I got the STS-1V notation....

But I still have my Lockheed Martin Space Shuttle Flight Info, and just for laughs, looked up ET-13. That tank was used for the first flight of Discovery, which had a pad abort.

As well, ET-13 was delivered to KSC on - Sept. 13, 1983. Maybe there is something to the number 13 after all.

dogcrew5369

I'm just thankful there wasn't a confusing system put into place before the Expedition 13 crew flew. Whew! Lesson learned I suppose.

sfurtaw

Something I've wondered for some time.... With the first digit representing the last digit in the fiscal year, had any thought been given to flights flown in fiscal year 1994 (and beyond)?

Hart Sastrowardoyo

The 1984 Rockwell listing I used to have projected flights to 1989, and 91-T. Presumably, a 1990 flight would have been 101-A (taking a cue from Star Trek The Next Generation's stardates, my interpretation for that would be the 10th year of shuttle operations, first flight of the fiscal year from KSC....)

413 is in

I was curious so went through my collection and pulled out these two mission 41C items that are also labeled STS-13. What is that they say about curiosity?

Hart Sastrowardoyo

My STS-16(41F) chart is signed by Rhea Seddon. She must not have looked at it too closely, because she inscribed it, "Space was fun!", rather ironic because that flight was postponed.

Hart Sastrowardoyo

I found a photo I had of a launch of Mission 51A was labeled S19-xxxxx. So STS-19 was 51A, which would lead to the canceled STS-18 being 41H.

Was at the Astronaut Hall of Fame and saw a FDF for 41-G, only the '41-G' part was on a sticker. Presumably, underneath was '17'; but when did FDFs, if any, stop using the number and start being printed with the alphanumberic mission numbering?