Brady makes less risky decisions. It is a mistake to assume that this makes them better in every case. Sometimes I'm sure it does. In other cases it may cost the team opportunities that a better skilled QB would have taken advantage of.

Either way, it is what it is. Brady plays to his own strengths thanks to a system that supports them.

Sounds like Brady makes better decisions to help his team win more games.

Again, you're jumping to a conclusion that isn't necessarily true - this is yet another reason people over rate Brady.

Like I said, the quick easy decision isn't always the best one. It may work, but it doesn't mean a better alternative wasn't there.

To do a non-football example: Let's say you went on a game show and made decisions that won you $100K. Are those "good" decisions? Well, you won $100K, so on the surface you might think so. However, if you could have made better decisions and won $10M instead, clearly you could have done better. So while you may be thrilled with winning the 100K, you could have won 10M. If you ignore that and only care to be happy with your 100K, that's fine, but it doesn't mean you couldn't have done better.

In the same way, Brady's coaches and team are happy if he gets them down the field to score, but they could have done better if he was more skilled. Still, they take what they have and move on.

You have been given evidence that states he can do that. You are ignoring it, and just going with what your biased eyes tell you.

The evidence doesn't suggest what you seem to think it does. I already said that. There is no point in regurgitating it again.

He’s accurate, and makes good decisions. That’s why he doesn’t throw many interceptions.

He's conservative because the system allows him to be conservative. THAT is why he doesn't throw many interceptions.

I’ll say it, it sounds like you described a damn good quarterback.

What I've described is a damn good SYSTEM. Like I said, when Brady retires, the team will still do just as well without him provided they find someone else who is willing and able to fit within the system designed for him.

One last thing...i can't stop laughing at your argument now. Brady doesn't take chances....$100k to $1m. You can't make this stuff up.

Your whole argument now is that Brady doesn't make chances. He's won 3 Superbowls. Been to 5 of them. Has some of the greatest stats of all time.....yet he's average because he doesn't take chances.

We all know what the truth is. I mean, Brady will be a 1st ballot HoF'er. Proof is in the pudding.

Much like his winning the MVPs, all that will prove is that the voters are influenced by Brady's hype - essentially, they either create and/or drink the same kool-aid so many of you do.

If HOF voters weren't influenced by hype, he'd have ZERO chance of being in the HOF. Absolutely ZERO.

He's won 3 Superbowls. Been to 5 of them.

Let's translate this: He's been carried to three Super Bowl wins by talented teams that would have won with or without him. He has CHOKED massively in every post season since - including twice in the Super Bowl - with what most people agree is more talent than he had when the team won the Super Bowl.

It's funny how a guy wins 3 Super Bowls a decade ago and that somehow covers up the choking since.

The guy gets WAY too much credit for 3 wins in the Super Bowl and never gets criticized for losing as he has done ever since. Any QB who actually is great would have had 5-8 Super Bowl wins now with the teams Brady has had carrying him around.

I wonder if Peyton Manning would have more titles if he made less risky decisions.

As I just said, he'd have 5-8 Super Bowl titles if he and Brady had been switched for all those years.

Or if he didn't suck so much *** in cold weather games

Brady isn't great in cold weather games. In fact, he fumbled away the Patriots first Super Bowl to the Raiders until the referees bailed him out. Funny how no one remembers Brady's failings like that.

We all know what the truth is. I mean, Brady will be a 1st ballot HoF'er. Proof is in the pudding.

Much like his winning the MVPs, all that will prove is that the voters are influenced by Brady's hype - essentially, they either create and/or drink the same kool-aid so many of you do.

If HOF voters weren't influenced by hype, he'd have ZERO chance of being in the HOF. Absolutely ZERO.

He's won 3 Superbowls. Been to 5 of them.

Let's translate this: He's been carried to three Super Bowl wins by talented teams that would have won with or without him. He has CHOKED massively in every post season since - including twice in the Super Bowl - with what most people agree is more talent than he had when the team won the Super Bowl.

It's funny how a guy wins 3 Super Bowls a decade ago and that somehow covers up the choking since.

The guy gets WAY too much credit for 3 wins in the Super Bowl and never gets criticized for losing as he has done ever since. Any QB who actually is great would have had 5-8 Super Bowl wins now with the teams Brady has had carrying him around.

I wonder if Peyton Manning would have more titles if he made less risky decisions.

As I just said, he'd have 5-8 Super Bowl titles if he and Brady had been switched for all those years.

Or if he didn't suck so much *** in cold weather games

Brady isn't great in cold weather games. In fact, he fumbled away the Patriots first Super Bowl to the Raiders until the referees bailed him out. Funny how no one remembers Brady's failings like that.

Again....hahahaha!!!

Zero chance if there wasn't "kool-aid". Yeah, the stats prove he sucks. The MVPs....he's overrated. The wins....the team won in spite of Brady's terrible skills.

Yeah, he's a choker now...haaha!!

Manning would have 5 to 8 superbowls?!?!?! Where the hell do you get these numbers from??? It's insanely hard to repeat in the NFL (well in any sport), and you think Manning would have 5-8 titles in the past 10 years. That right there just proves how stupid you are.

Um...that call vs the Raiders was the correct call. I also find your grounds of Brady being a bad cold weather QB by one play....in a game they won.

The guy has an incredibly talented team every single year. There is no reason they should not have won multiple Super Bowls, including the two against the Giants.

Last year Brady unquestionably CHOKED in the clutch and cost his team the chance to seal up a win, and yet so many people overlook that.

They also overlook all the other times he's choked, which are major reasons his talented team hasn't won another Super Bowl.

I hope he continues to choke. Maybe someday you'll wake up and realize how he's costs his team more SBs than he's won with them.

Manning would have 5 to 8 superbowls?!?!?! Where the hell do you get these numbers from???

Manning would have easily won the same 3 Super Bowls Brady did win early in his career (and probably by bigger margins). He also probably would have beaten his own brother in both of those Super Bowls. That's the 5.

I also believe Manning would have lead the team to wins in an additional 1 to 3 seasons when the Brady-led Patriots didn't even make the Super Bowl, because he's that much better than Brady. That's up to 8.

There you go. With Manning, 5-8 Super Bowl wins. With Brady, 3, and they were lucky to get that.

05nomar05,

Yeah, and in how many of those games did Brady nearly blow it (as with the "tuck rule" game) and he got lucky and didn't screw over his team? At least that one, and I'm betting there are others.

Regardless of his record, my point is that it's just so easy for you kool-aid drinkers to forget his mistakes. That's part of why he's the most over rated player in NFL history. The gap between his actual value and his perceived value his astronomical.

Damn, I thought we were done. Well, I am. It's amazing you can continue a conversation for nearly a month while ignoring all the evidence refuting your claims. In the last 2 posts you made, you're essentially saying the exact same thing you said weeks ago, with no new evidence. Repeating something that's false over and over and over does not make it true. I hope your hatred makes you happy.

Peyton Manning has continually made big mistakes in big games. You can say probably this or maybe that, but that's just fantasy. How many titles would Manning have if he didn't make mistakes in the post season....how about the Saints/Colts Super Bowl...his chance to shine on a big stage again, only to throw a back breaking pick once again.....Manning is 9-11(6 of those in two different years) in the postseason, his passer rating is 95.5 in regular season and 88 in the post season....he's gone one and done eight times. I just don't get where you think Manning could have won more, when he's definitely not as good a QB in the playoffs as he is in the regular season.

Posted by burnsy483 on 1/16/2013 2:05:00 PM (view original):Dilfer won a SB because he played with arguably the best defense in the history of the game. He had 12 TDs and 11 picks in 8 games. He actually wasn't very good at "not screwing up." The fact that you compare Brady to Dilfer is nauseating.

You are overhyping the Pats o-line. They've always been very good, but I don't think I'd ever call them the best in the league in any particular year. Thank you for finding the 1 guy I didn't find in Dillon. He had 1 great RB once. And he doesn't make plays? I'm not sure you've seen him play. I don't know where to go with that.

I'm trying to look at the other points you made but it really appears that there's a lot of words and not much substance. Be more succinct, please.

LOL.

Seriously, block him now, or do it later and regret the time you lost in between.

There is no evidence that refutes my claims - only other claims made by those who drink Brady-worship kool-aid.

Of course I'm saying essentially the same things. The arguments I made then still hold up now. You think you've offered some great evidence and well-reasoned thoughts to dismiss what I'm saying, but you haven't except in your own mind (which I suggest is affected by the hype).

I do get happy when the Patriots lose, and especially happy when they lose for the final time each year and don't win the Super Bowl. I don't want anyone to have any more reason to over rate Brady than they already do.

The guy is the most over rated player in league history. That's why so many of you can't see his failures. You only see decade old TEAM success and skewed stats, not the choking and the lack of play making.

I'll say one thing in defense of Manning "choking" in big games - when you play the postseason, you play against the best teams. To it makes sense to be a little worse than you are in the regular season when you have the Jaguars to play twice a year. 95.5 to 88? OK...I can understand. For comparison's sake, Brady's falls from 96.6 to 87.4.

Posted by bistiza on 2/11/2013 11:43:00 AM (view original):There is no evidence that refutes my claims - only other claims made by those who drink Brady-worship kool-aid.

Of course I'm saying essentially the same things. The arguments I made then still hold up now. You think you've offered some great evidence and well-reasoned thoughts to dismiss what I'm saying, but you haven't except in your own mind (which I suggest is affected by the hype).

I do get happy when the Patriots lose, and especially happy when they lose for the final time each year and don't win the Super Bowl. I don't want anyone to have any more reason to over rate Brady than they already do.

The guy is the most over rated player in league history. That's why so many of you can't see his failures. You only see decade old TEAM success and skewed stats, not the choking and the lack of play making.

You've been given statistics and evidence to refute your claims, and your argument is to repeat yourself. So there's no use in arguing.

Posted by burnsy483 on 1/16/2013 2:05:00 PM (view original):Dilfer won a SB because he played with arguably the best defense in the history of the game. He had 12 TDs and 11 picks in 8 games. He actually wasn't very good at "not screwing up." The fact that you compare Brady to Dilfer is nauseating.

You are overhyping the Pats o-line. They've always been very good, but I don't think I'd ever call them the best in the league in any particular year. Thank you for finding the 1 guy I didn't find in Dillon. He had 1 great RB once. And he doesn't make plays? I'm not sure you've seen him play. I don't know where to go with that.

I'm trying to look at the other points you made but it really appears that there's a lot of words and not much substance. Be more succinct, please.

LOL.

Seriously, block him now, or do it later and regret the time you lost in between.

You've been given statistics and evidence to refute your claims, and your argument is to repeat yourself. So there's no use in arguing.

There was never any real use in arguing to begin with, because no one who is high on Brady's hype will ever change their minds.

His massive failings don't matter when you can point to a decade ago when he was carried Dilfer-style to three titles. His choke jobs mean nothing because Randy Moss and company dragged him to some records and an undefeated regular season.

As long as that is the mantra, no one will think Brady is over rated precisely because they've bought into the hype that makes him over rated to begin with.