The more I see her, the less I like her. The fact that people were defending her still sickens me a bit, especially after this strip. It’d take a LOT to redeem her for me; I’m not even 100% on the Andi welcome wagon yet but it seems to be leading there

I will give Andi this credit: she’s telling her mom off for being a psycho crapmonster BRIEFLY and putting her focus on comforting her child, who is hurting. That is exactly what I would hope she would do.

Yes, yes, yes. Anyone who still defends Pat and hates Andi still has a serious fucking issue. Patrica is an evil selfish monster, I’d peg her as either a narcissist or has Borderline Personality Disorder. She is convinced that everyone else is as conniving and self-centered as she is. Her first thought when Andi called was “you brought That child over to MY House?” and then later when Andi says “oh crap she can hear you” Pat immediately thought “you are trying to trap me”.
I feel utterly safe now in my previous assesment that Patricia guilted and terrified Andi into giving up Amanada and that the whole urn business was Pat’s idea. The fact that she tries to pin it all on Andi “I bought that urn for You” is nothing but classic gas-lighting. It is exactly the same as an abusive spouse who says “I wouldn’t have hit you if you hadn’t made me so mad, so it is your fault!”

I disagree. We have seen Andi use underhanded and manipulative tactics to try to get her way before. Considering Pat has known Andi for her hole life, she would have seen Andi using this against people before. Against HER before. Now, I am not saying she is right here, not at all. I am just saying when you have seen an animal behaving poorly all it’s life, it is not usually hard to see what it is going to do next. Pat has not seen Andi since the kitchen talk. She hasn’t had the chance to see Andi going through the effort to change for the sake of her child.
She was the one there when Andi was giving birth and scared, and not sure she was ready for a family. But you have to remember that SHE went through the same thing, and while she loved her child, it made her life so much harder than it could have been. In her eyes, she was trying to do the right thing for both her daughter, and for the baby (she doesn’t have the gift of Sight, so she would never have known how she suffered) by pushing for the adoption. However, I don’t feel like she would have told Andi to tell Todd the baby died. I think that was her own guilt, and her mother helping cover for her. Andi was, at the time, still a child.

*snerk* Sorry, but I must point out that Patricia was the adult and most assuredly taught her daughter the heinous “survival skills” you mention. I use quotes not because you call them that but because I’m being patronizing and see these as very manipulative and anti-social skills. I doubt Andi could ever use such tricks on her mom. Patricia’s the pro here. Look at how she is around her mom here. Not even really telling her off, not trying to wheedle her way. Just trying to explain stuff. Gods, now I’m defending Andi… *sigh*

All characters have flaws if they are good characters and the best bad buys have the most interesting flaws 😉

Oh I am not saying that Patricia didn’t teach Andi that skill set. And I can see the patronizing, thanks. 😉 Thank you for pointing out that I never called them survival skills too.
We have never seen Andi using these tactics against her mother, but that does not mean that it didn’t happen, and when one grows up in a home where that is how things are done, you are more likely to do it.

You’re also a relatively normal person I’m assuming. She’s a child with extensive trauma she’s trying to heal from, and at one point she did ask about her other grandmother I think (someone source me please?). To a child who just wants family that will never ever leave her, knowing her grandmother doesn’t want to see her could be a devastating blow. I should know, I’ve felt similar emotions as a teen and adult, wanting my father, mother, grandmother, uncle to love and support me. It’s hard to get over even as an adult

It depends entirely on the narrative you spin for yourself to cope with the hand life’s dealt you. With Amanda, she’s not only dealt with being put in an orphanage once; she was then later RETURNED to said orphanage, after dealing with physical and emotional abuse at the hands of the biological children of her adoptive parents (and, frankly, emotional abuse at LEAST from said adoptive parents, who treated her like a defective television to be brought back to the store).

We’ve seen that she’s coped, albeit poorly, by constructing a narrative in which she is a princess and very much wanted by her ‘real’ family. This fantasy is probably what’s kept her from having even worse issues than she’s already had.

Now she’s got a family that loves and wants her, and she is starting, emphasis on that word, to heal. But she is still scared of being left – as witness her following Andi out in the first place, pursuant to her discussion with Selkie. She is scared of not being wanted, and it’s a recurring theme and part of her anger issues and bravado stem from a preparedness to reject others at the first hint that they might reject her. This underscores, too, her issues with other friends – such as with Heather, who ‘broke the promise/was disloyal’ by being adopted and not taking the other two with her.

It’s not always logical, but it’s internally consistent. And now she’s had that fear, which has been rearing its ugly head and causing her to follow mom outside in the first place, confirmed. Grandma doesn’t love her. Grandma wants nothing to do with her.

She’s crushed. And Andi at least has her priorities straight and is trying to comfort her child. She didn’t know Patricia existed, but the idea of a loving grandma fits into that internal defense mechanism she’s been using to hold the worst hurts and damage at bay thus far. Now that mechanism’s had a huge sledgehammer thrown at it by Patricia.

Thankfully there’s still Andi and all the Smiths. Amanda doesn’t have to, and hopefully won’t, immediately dive back into rage and preemptive rejection.

“Well, you see kid, it’s not so much that your grandmother doesn’t love you, I mean, she doesn’t even know you so yeah, but it’s more that she’s terrified of trying to because she’s kind of a burned out emotional coward who would rather isolate herself from anything that might hurt her than risk experiencing the perceived loss of joy or freedom ever again. It’s complicated, but I think you’re pretty used to the idea that people don’t stop fucking up just because they grow up.”

Forgive me, this is just a strangely familiar dance, especially with Grandma’s accusation about the window. Reminds me of some relatives and in-laws of mine.

I have a Sonim XP Core 1301.
The thing can basically stop bullets, and can be safely slammed down.
It is not, however, “smart”, which is okay because I need a durable phone with excellent signal strength and long lasting battery MUCH more than I need any of the features a “smart” phone has to offer me.

This is a hard story… Andi would have had to tell Amanda soon. Kids that age are very inquisitive and bright. It is better for Amanda to know the truth. Otherwise, there’d be a danger she’d be coming to her own conclusions and they could do more damage than the truth—especially given how she was raised.

This hits me hard. I’ve made this kind of choice…different situation of course…but I chose my kid over my parents. It is not an easy thing to do and many people don’t choose right, but it rewarding watching a child grow up strong, confident and happy. Being away from it, you grow, too.

Really, Patricia, really? Are you really that stupid? I don’t even understand why Andi hasn’t bothered cutting you out of her life already; you clearly seem to be under the impression that the world revolves around you!

its not stupidy per say, more like incredible self-centeredness….combined with a hefty helping of guilt-tripping. translated it means:
‘honestly andi, how dare you NOT making sure that my shortcommings as mother+grandmother don´t get overheard. shame on you….and don´t distract from YOUR deeds by talking about mine. they´re not important and totally negligible anyway. cause i´m flawless+perfect and you´re still a silly little girl that´ll never amount to nothing’

Andi, needs to just say it to Amanda. Amanda,… my mom (your grandmother) is a bit of a bitch, okay a colossal bitch. Do not repeat that to anyone here tonight do not repeat that to anyone preferably, this is one of those things you can think inside your head as much as you like. but really shouldn’t say out loud.

I think Andi should wait until Amanda’s older to say that. Saying any word you don’t want a child to repeat, especially a willful one like Amanda, guarantees it will be repeated. And I think Marie will be much less happy with Andi then.

The sad thing is this is a situation that’s all too possible, and even common.
My sister had a 6 year traumatic legal battle with her ex-in-laws parents (and her children’s grand parents) mainly because they were vindictive and believed in appearances over everything else. They were perfectly happy to neglect their grandkids well being and allow them to be abused just as long as everyone could still see that they were theirs.
I always used to joke that I would end up going to jail before I let them ever have access to my nephew and nieces… and the scary thing was, I wasn’t joking.
I know its not the same, but all I am saying is there are a lot of horrible selfish people out there.

Oh cheese and crackers. Amanda honey, it’s not that Grandma doesn’t love you. It’s just that Grandma is a selfish evil old queen who is nothing more than a stupid villain in the ongoing story that is your life.

It doesn’t matter that the old witch is too ignorant and crazy to see the beautiful young lady you are. You have another set of grandparents, you have an aunt and uncle, you have a mother and father. Grandma has nothing.

Well, I guess we see where Andi’s extreme avoidance behavior got its start.

The first time Andi and Patricia discussed Andi reclaiming Amanda, Patricia was kind of calm and cold and placed all the blame on Andi. We now know that Patricia was far more involved in the whole process than she made it appear, at very least, only with the deception. But I have a feeling Patricia pushed really hard on the decision to give Amanda up for adoption. Then she left Andi to deal with the fallout. After all, Andi’s relationship to Todd and the Smiths has nothing to do with her, right?

Here the reaction is all outrage and paranoia, “You TRICKED me! YOU’RE making ME look BAD! After EVERYTHING I’ve DONE for YOU!”

That wouldn’t exactly make for an environment where an open discussion of feelings and mistakes is encouraged. The lesson that’s learned is “If you upset someone, they might stop loving and caring about you. Walk on eggshells around everyone else’s emotions, or you might end up alone.”

Not only that but she won’t even call Todd by name, as witness in the other strip. ‘You can leave her with her father.’ Kind of speaks volumes as to her feelings about him and likely about him with Andi.

i had one similar to that as a work supplied phone about 10 years ago, curious about the specs so i looked them up, i found out that it had a MIL-Spec rating for a whole bunch of things, like battery life and signal strenght, durability to shock (dropping it), etc… one of them i thought was kinda strange… the unit (with battery installed) had a MINIMUM Weight value, in that it had to weigh MORE than that to get approved… i never could figure that one out.

Yeah, it’s a heavy phone. I have much greater need for a durable phone with the line of work I do than apps.
The 3 weeks between charge times, the extra loud volume, the ability to receive and make calls when other people have no service whatsoever, those are all bonuses.

when I was a kid, stories about how uncaring my parents’ parents were made me feel closer to my parents.. like.. i’m lucky compared to them, they love me more than their parents, y’know.. we come first in their lives.. it’s nice. and i feel like that works for spouses too.

This is a Perfect opportunity for her to learn that it is alright that someone doesn’t like let alone love her. Especially when talking about people you don’t know. The lesson should be, someone doesn’t love me and I’m alright with that. Amanda will have to learn to deal with her insecurities at some point, may as well start now.

The difference is being thankful for what you have vs greeding after what you don’t

You ever watch Disney’s Recess? There’s an episode devoted to the fact that one kid in school doesn’t like T.J. T.J., the kid everybody likes. The kid even the principal likes. The kid even Miss Finster, the authoritarian who’s always cutting in on their fun, likes.

But one kid doesn’t like him, and he’s going to go out of his way to correct this imbalance in the universe.

It was an interested episode. With the general message that you can’t expect everyone to like you, and it’s better to just make peace with that.

Yeah, I liked that cartoon. I know a certain someone related to another certain someone I know who CANNOT cope with someone not liking him. TO the point he gets trashed and talks loudly, like that will help, and when it doesn’t he either balls up and cries or does something stupid like pick a fight …or drive…

Worked as a vet tech and part of my job was calling out people for being stupid or outright taking animals from abusive owners. That didn’t win me friends. My mother hated me, My father hated me…..and….I’m alright with that. I could likely fill a phone book with the names of people that wish me dead…and I mean that literally. My current job involves pissing off criminals.

I can’t help thinking about what Andi should say next. (Not what she *will* say. Something that could be said, and might be good to get said,since it will have to come up eventually.) I think I might say something like “Well, she doesn’t even know you….” or maybe not. But then: “She was the one, back when you were born, who talked me into letting you be adopted. She told me you’d go to a good family, and have a good life. She told me I wasn’t ready to raise a child, to be a parent, and I was sure she was right. So… I did what she said… which turned out really bad…. But I’ve got you back now and I will never, NEVER let go of you again!”

I’m imagining lots of other stuff that could go in there, but that’s the core message. The information that Amanda will find out sooner or later, regardless. (I feel like saying “What do the rest of you think?” but… really! 😉

1) Be honest with Amanda. Get on Amanda’s level and explain what happened that lead to Amanda being put up for adoption, taking appropriate amounts of responsibility. If any of this is going to make sense to Amanda, she has to know the full version of the story, including why Patricia thinks the way she does to the best of Andi’s knowledge.

2) Reaffirm that no matter what happens with Patricia, Amanda has a home *forever* with Andi and the Smiths. Nothing Patricia says or does will cause Andi to abandon Amanda.

3) Make sure Amanda knows it has absolutely nothing to do with her worth as a person. This is Patricia’s problem, and possibly Andi’s, but it is absolutely not Amanda’s. She needs to know that it’s not her fault.

4) Offer Amanda some time to ask questions, all of which should be answered honestly, openly, and without large amounts of emotions. “I don’t know” is perfectly fine.

5) Give Amanda some space to cope, but try to ensure she re-integrates with the Christmas party so she can have tangible evidence that she belongs in her new family.

At least, thats what I feel the *best* solution to this is. I hope Andi will do at least a few of these. I have faith that she will do her best to ensure Amanda’s wellbeing.

All good things to say. Although with point 1, the explanation, I think it’s important not to make excuses for Patricia. Not even a little bit. Not even if Andi really wants to make those excuses in her own mind. Amanda will interpret any excuses as undermining point 3.

And don’t say, “She really does love you, she’s just behaving badly, give her time, she’ll come around.” First, judging from this, it’s not going to happen. Second, even if it were true (which it isn’t) Amanda wouldn’t believe a word of it, and it would make her stop trusting Andi.

Level with her. Tell her, “Your grandma is being a jerk. I don’t think she loves anyone. That’s her loss. Some people are just like that. But, other people are like your Dad’s family, they love everyone. Who do you think has a happier life?”

This hurts. My own mother could be unbelievably hurtful and insensitive. I never knew her parents: her father died when she was five and she was the last of nine children, born when her ma was 39. I expect that’s what she was trying to compensate for when she adopted me. Patricia is basically Amanda forty years on, but Amanda is getting help. Patricia (and my mom) never did. Patricia’s not evil or mean, she’s just incredibly broken.

I’ve always hated that argument of ‘They went through blah blah, therefor there not evil or mean or whatever. No, what they went through gives context to ‘WHY’ they are evil, mean, a coward or whatever behaviour the past incident led them too. It doesn’t however absolve them of the actions they have taken. Patricia is cruel, controlling and has a serious victim mentality to boot. The reasons why she is those things doesn’t change the fact that she ‘IS’ those things. An explanation as to why they are something can be a guild on helping them change, but it never should be a reason to ignore the victim of ‘THERE’ actions or to not make it very clear why they are doing regardless of why is very very wrong.

OK, if you’re going to split hairs, try this: THEY are not mean or evil, but their actions ARE. Amanda, had she not been “rescued”, would have grown up to be Patricia. At what age would you expect her to overcome her horrendous childhood by her own efforts? I’ve seen too much mis-nurture triumphing over nature to call anyone evil. And no, that’s not the same as absolution. Absolution can only come (if at all) after genuine contrition. People like Patricia will die old and alone if they don’t get help. And that’s a tragedy.

Actions define character. If someone can still claim to be a good person while committing horrible acts then it brings to question what being a good person really means. If you have done something cruel you were being cruel and were a cruel person at that time. The question is if you feel remorse and wish to chance. And the situation leading up canake people more sympathetic and make you worthy of aided redemption but not getting treated poorly in the past never justifies treating others badly and you have to take responsibility for your actions that’s part of becoming a better person.

Just ignore the guy. Anyone who quotes the bible in this sort of situation cannot be reasoned with. I should know, as MY grandmother used religion to justify some of the emotional abuse she directed at me.

Eating the feels away…but what if we’re working on thanksgiving, and won’t be doing the standard holiday meal with family? Dave, are you authorizing me to grab an excessive amount of candy & pig-out while I’m at work? That’s what it sounds like to me.

I don’t think Dave would be so irresponsible as to authorize eating excessively. Note, however, that the word is undergoing an annual review today, and should properly be considered undefined at the current time.

Therefor it is not currently [b]possible[/b] to eat excessively.

If you decide to make an imitation turkey out of candy corn, and get your green vegetables by eating an 8 oz jar of jalapenos, I will decline responsibility for the consequences.

It’s not that unbelievable that a window would be open. House full of people moving and running around with the kids, the oven is on, everybody wearing sweaters… It’s why *my* family always winds up with a window or a door open somewhere in the house during the winter holidays.

I suppose it’d be hard to think of that on the phone while you’re already feeling defensive, but the knee-jerk assumption of malicious intent? That’s just completely out of bounds. W o w.