Originally posted by Angle France and Britain declared war on Germany for the invasion of Poland, not the other way around. Chamberlain killed thousands of our ancestors, not Hitler. As for German nationalism, why were they so keen to have non-German SS Divisions? SS Charlemagne, SS Wiking, SS Walloons, SS Galacia, etc? Pan-Europeanism, that's why. The only narrow-minded nationalists were the ones who fought the Germans.
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No, Britain and Germany declared war on Germany after Germany refused to withdraw its troops that had invaded Poland after they carved Poland up with Russia that is.

Please Chamberlain did everything he could to avoid war.

Chamberlain also wished to help the Finns in their fight with Russia in 1940 this was the same time Hitler and Stalin had their pact.

Any of the SS divisions from those countries were dwarfed by those who fought against Germany in those countries.

Britain could took Poles, French, Belgians, Dutch back into Britain when we withdrew in Operation Dynamo all white countries.

This is Britain in 2003 and not Germany in 1939 we should leave the historical debates to Revisions on SF and the rest to history.

For the record I think the holocaust is one big myth started in part by the Soviets and then used by the Jews for their own ends.

Originally posted by Toxic Everyone, including you at least knows a few things about what the Nazi's did, that dont mean to say we sit there all night reading Anne Franks diary till we fall asleep.

Thanks for the input anyway

Even if it is all lies, denying it will get us nowhere.

I understand what you are saying, but is the 'holocaust' really at the forefront of British Nationalist thinking anyway?

The label 'nazi' is going to get thrown at us, regardless. I personally don't care much for the modern day National Socialists ('neo-nazis', as the media calls them) that post here. Luckily we don't have many (if any) of them on this Stormfront Britain board.
And even if I did like them, I still believe using NS symbology is a major PR gaff. (I know I'm stating the bloody obvious there )

You are right. We, as British Nationalists, should steer clear of anything 'holocaust' or 'nazi' related. We just don't need it.

Originally posted by Nechtansmere No, Britain and Germany declared war on Germany after Germany refused to withdraw its troops that had invaded Poland after they carved Poland up with Russia that is.

Interesting that we didnt declare war on the SovietUnion in 1939, dont you think.

The reality of the war is that it was a major mistake for british interests, not only was the original goal of protecting poland a failure because it became our soviet allies land but it also destoyed our empire as hitler foretold and made us a vassal state of the biggest mongrel promoter's on the planet, the U.S.

In my view i have no doubt if we stayed neutral and let germany have poland who were hardly important to british interests we would be a strong nationalistic people at this moment and not facing extiction.

He did everything he could to stall because the British army was weak, as the thrashing they received - along with the French army - in France bears witness to. Naturally, German power on the continent was a threat to the UK.

Originally posted by Angle He did everything he could to stall because the British army was weak, as the thrashing they received - along with the French army - in France bears witness to. Naturally, German power on the continent was a threat to the UK.

We were caught unprepared and should have been building our forces up as Germany did.

I understand your general points Toxic. I am a BNP activist and I accept that a holocaust against jews (and other groups) took place more or less totally.How can it be doubted when we've got footage of mechanical bulldozers having to clear through heaps of human cadavers at Aushwitz etc and Jewish bones are still being dug up in Poland today?

Meanwhile I accept the point that the number of Jewish victims can be disputed.But what's the point in doing so? The Nazis evidently intended to kill as many if not all the Jews they possibly could.

I know that the Nazi persecution of the Jews is being held against modern British nationalists as some sort of guilt by association and that Jews at the top in Britain and in Israel are involved in abuses of media and capitalist power in the former and imperialist power in the latter but I believe like Toxic that for all those in the business end of British Nationalism the people who question the holocaust and rage agaiinst Jews are rather at best a public relations liability and possibly even in some cases some sort of infiltrators trying to keep the BNP from gaining respectability and credibility.Personally I wish anyone in the party who still believes in some sort of revisionism would just drop the matter and concentrate on Britain today and with the work required to advance the party.

Originally posted by Byron Boy I understand your general points Toxic. I am a BNP activist and I accept that a holocaust against jews (and other groups) took place more or less totally.How can it be doubted when we've got footage of mechanical bulldozers having to clear through heaps of human cadavers at Aushwitz etc and Jewish bones are still being dug up in Poland today?

The footage of cadavers you've seen is from camps that were inside Germany and are not claimed to be "extermination camps". They are victims of starvation and disease, not deliberate genocide. Most of those victims were not, in fact, Jews.
As horrific as that footage is, it is not proof of a deliberate genocide (by gas chambers).

Jewish bones are not being dug up in Poland. A detailed, photographic record of the excavation at Belzec (for example) has never been forthcoming. I followed the whole story quite keenly about 3 years ago.

The reason why I don't bother with the 'holocaust' much anymore is partly because I'm bored with it and partly because it is damaging to us if we go on about it too much. It's just that when I see posts like yours I have a kind of knee-jerk reaction and feel like I have to correct you.

The events that took place 60 years ago in a foreign country are totally irrelevent to modern politics. Those who fought for Britain in that war fought for their country and nothing else, and should therefore be treated with respect by this country. If ever pressed on the matter, Nazi Germany and many of the acts that went with that government were fundamently evil and should never be allowed to happen in a western country again.

Regardless of your own beliefs, democratic success relies on views like that.

The jews and the 'diversity'-mongers use "The Holocaust" as an ideological battering-ram against any sort of White racial consciousness; meanwhile, they are the REAL deniers--they deny not only the much greater (by anybody's count) Bolshevik holocausts, they discount all the other holocausts, such as the Armenian, Cambodian, Chinese (take your pick of several) -- but most importantly, they DENY the current one being committed against White people, today, in virtually EVERY White homeland, by means of the massive, undeclared, and virtually unreported nonwhite immigration INVASION. They DENY it in part by calling YOU a "racist" and a "nazi" if you so much as notice what they have already declared inevitable-- the elimination of White majorities everywhere in the world. They deny it by pretending that "race doesn't exist" and that it therefore "won't matter."

So when someone whines "holocaust" and you think it's not practical or expedient to tell them they're full of it (and they most certainly are,) you might simply ask them, "WHICH holocaust do you mean?" The one that ultimately gave Jews their own exclusive country, or the one the Jews are now perpetrating upon the Palestinians, or, the one that is taking AWAY all the countries which were for centuries exclusive to Whites (and necessary for the survival of our genetic material,) or the one that killed 50 million Chinese, or the one that killed 30 million Europeans... which one?

To get us riled up enough to go kill "the hun" in WWI, they used to say they Germans were bayonneting babies in Belgium, cutting off their hands, and so on. It was later admitted to be a lie--just war propaganda. (There is an excellent book mentioning this, called "Falsehood in Wartime, by written by one of your compatriots, Arthur Ponsonby, M.P.) But, they are unwilling to let go of the lies if WWI part II-- too much is at stake. However, the fable continues to crumble, slowly, whether they like it or not.

Generations of horror fans have thrilled to tales about how the Germans, both during the reign of the evil Kaiser Bill and in their nastier Nazi incarnation, made soap from the corpses of POWs and overweight Jews. Reports about such “Cadaver Factories” were widely circulated-- and believed --during WWI.
Organized Jewry began to revive this charge as early as 1942. More than a few “Holocaust survivors” have testified that members of their family were reduced to the Teutonic version of Ivory Soap. Playing a version of “Show & Tell,” they have asserted that gray little lumps bearing the initials R.J.F., supposedly standing for Pure (Reines) Jewish (Jüdische) Fat (Fett), are all that remain of thousands of unfortunate Chosenites.
Alas, this staple of anti-German propaganda has been dealt a fatal blow by the head of the Hebrew University’s Holocaust History Department, Yehuda Bauer, who recently pointed out that the technical possibilities for making soap from human fat were not known during the first half of this century. (Propagandists would have been better advised to have accused the Germans with turning their prisoners into candles.) Said the learned professor, “We do not have to go on believing untrue stories.”
Bauer’s historical revisionism bodes ill for those who insist on including expanded Holocaust studies in U.S. schools. Suzy Lainpert, editor of The Jewish Outlook, revealed that after students at the University of Texas were exposed to the full menu of Nazi atrocities in the “Literature of the Holocaust” course, the typical student response was (to her great chagrin and consternation):

If the Pagans hated the Jews, the Muslims hated the Jews, and the Christians hated the Jews, the Greeks hated the Jews, the Romans hated the Jews, the English hated the Jews, the Spanish hated the Jews, the French hated the Jews, the Italians hated the Jews, the Russians hated the Jews, and the Nazis hated the Jews ... don’t you think maybe there's something wrong with the Jews?

http://ihr.org/jhr/v11/v11p217_Weber.html
Over the years, numerous supposedly reputable historians have promoted the durable soap story. Journalist-historian William L. Shirer, for example, repeated it in his best-selling work, The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich.
Leading Soviet war propagandist Ilya Ehrenburg wrote in his postwar memoir: "I have held in my hand a cake of soap stamped with the legend 'pure Jewish soap', prepared from the corpses of people who had been destroyed. But there is no need to speak of these things: thousands of books have been written about them."
A standard history studies textbook used in Canadian secondary schools, Canada: The Twentieth Century, told students that the Germans "boiled" the corpses of their Jewish victims "to make soap." The Anatomy of Nazism, a booklet published and distributed by the Zionist "Anti-Defamation League" of B'nai B'rith, stated: "The process of brutalization did not end with the mass murders themselves. Large quantities of soap were manufactured from the corpses of those murdered."
A detailed 1981 work, Hitler's Death Camps, repeated the soap story in lurid detail. While noting that "some historians claim that the Nazi manufacture of soap from human fat is just a grim rumor," author Konnilyn Feig nevertheless accepted the story because "most East European camp scholars ... validate the soap stories, and other kinds of bars made from humans are displayed in Eastern Europe -- I have seen many over the years."
New York Rabbi Arthur Schneier repeated the tale at the opening ceremony of the largest Holocaust meeting in history. In his invocation to the "American Gathering of Jewish Holocaust Survivors," held in Washington in April 1983, the Rabbi solemnly declared: "We remember the bars of soap with the initials RJF -- Rein jdisches Fett, Pure Jewish Fat -- made from the bodies of our loved ones."
In spite of all the apparently impressive evidence, the charge that the Germans manufactured soap from human beings is a falsehood, as Holocaust historians are now belatedly acknowledging. The "RIF" soap bar initials that supposedly stood for "Pure Jewish Fat" actually indicated nothing more sinister than "Reich Center for Industrial Fat Provisioning" ("Reichsstelle fr Industrielle Fettversorgung"), a German agency responsible for wartime production and distribution of soap and washing products. RIF soap was a poor quality substitute that contained no fat at all, human or otherwise.
Shortly after the war the public prosecutor's office of Flensburg, Germany, began legal proceedings against Dr. Rudolf Spanner for his alleged role in producing human soap at the Danzig Institute. But after an investigation the charge was quietly dropped. In a January 1968 letter, the office stated that its inquiry had determined that no soap from human corpses was made at the Danzig Institute during the war.
More recently, Jewish historian Walter Laqueur "denied established history" by acknowledging in his 1980 book, The Terrible Secret, that the human soap story has no basis in reality. Gitta Sereny, another Jewish historian, noted in her book Into That Darkness: "The universally accepted story that the corpses were used to make soap and fertilizer is finally refuted by the generally very reliable Ludwigsburg Central Authority for Investigation into Nazi Crimes."
Deborah Lipstadt, a professor of modern Jewish history, similarly "rewrote history" when she confirmed in 1981: "The fact is that the Nazis never used the bodies of Jews, or for that matter anyone else, for the production of soap."
In April 1990, professor Yehuda Bauer of Israel's Hebrew University, regarded as a leading Holocaust historian, as well as Shmuel Krakowski, archives director of Israel's Yad Vashem Holocaust center, confirmed that the human soap story is not true. Camp inmates "were prepared to believe any horror stories about their persecutors," Bauer said. At the same time, though, he had the chutzpah to blame the legend on "the Nazis."
In fact, blame for the soap story lies rather with individuals such as Simon Wiesenthal and Stephen Wise, organizations like the World Jewish Congress, and the victorious Allied powers, none of whom has ever apologized for promoting this vile falsehood.
Why did Bauer and Krakowski decide that this was the appropriate time to officially abandon the soap story? Krakowski himself hints that a large part of the motivation for this "tactical retreat" has been to save what's left of the sinking Holocaust ship by throwing overboard the most obvious falsehoods. In the face of the growing Revisionist challenge, easily demonstrable falsehoods like the soap story have become dangerous embarrassments because they raise doubts about the entire Holocaust legend. As Krakowski put it: "Historians have concluded that soap was not made from human fat. When so many people deny the Holocaust ever happened, why give them something to use against the truth?"
The bad faith of those making this calculated and belated concession to truth is shown by their failure to note that the soap myth was authoritatively "confirmed" at Nuremberg, and by their unwillingness to deal with the implications of that confirmation for the credibility of the Tribunal and other supposedly trustworthy authorities in establishing other, more fundamental aspects of the Holocaust story.
The striking contrast between the prompt postwar disavowal by the British government of the infamous "human soap" lie of the First World War, and the way in which a similarly baseless propaganda story from the Second World War was officially endorsed by the victorious Allied powers and then authoritatively maintained for so many years not only points up the dispiriting lack of integrity on the part of so many Western historians, but underscores the general decline in Western ethical standards during this century.
The "human soap" story demonstrates anew the tremendous impact that a wartime rumor, no matter how fantastic, can have once it has taken hold, particularly when it is disseminated as a propaganda lie by influential individuals and powerful organizations. That so many intelligent and otherwise thoughtful people could ever have seriously believed that the Germans distributed bars of soap brazenly labeled with letters indicating that they were manufactured from Jewish corpses shows how readily even the most absurd Holocaust fables can be -- and are -- accepted as fact.