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Re: House Passes 2009 SCHIP Bill

I also believe that which is another reason I'm for SCHIP. I think it will help guide us to that next step.

Why is Nationalized Health Care a great thing to have?

I have no choice. I don't want it nor do I want to pay for it.
Why do individuals like yourself have to force people to participate when they don't want to?

I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
—Adam Shepard

Re: House Passes 2009 SCHIP Bill

Like fruits and vegetables? I can see a tax on things like transgendered fats.

a fat tax is already on the table in some countries, though I don't believe anyone's had the nerve to establish one yet.

In December 2003, The World Health Organization proposed that nations consider taxing junk foods to encourage people to make healthier food choices. According to the WHO report, "Several countries use fiscal measures to promote availability of and access to certain foods; others use taxes to increase or decrease consumption of food; and some use public funds and subsidies to promote access among poor communities to recreational and sporting facilities."

Bruce Silverglade, director of legal affairs for the Center for Science in the Public Interest, said his nonprofit nutrition advocacy organization welcomed the recommendations and has spent years fighting for measures like a Junk Food Tax. The proposal got even more traction when New York Assemblyman Felix Ortiz proposed taxes on junk food and entertainment contributing to sedentary lifestyles to fund nutrition and exercise programs.

Other advocates of the tax point to the effect taxes have had on alcohol and tobacco use. Five studies published between 1981 and 1998 found that drinking declined as the price of alcohol increased. The same holds for tobacco. In California in 1988, Proposition 99 increased the state tax by 25 cents per cigarette pack and allocated a minimum of 20% of revenue to fund anti-tobacco education. From 1988 to 1993, the state saw tobacco use decline by 27%, three times better than the U.S. average.

sometimes I feel like this world is getting stupid to live in and I wish we had others to choose from.

I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
—Adam Shepard

I have no choice. I don't want it nor do I want to pay for it.
Why do individuals like yourself have to force people to participate when they don't want to?

I don't think I, personally, am forcing anything on anyone. NHC seems to me to be the next step.

In the 80's many of our mental health institutions were shut down. We, nationally, closed the door on some of our most needy citizens and literally put them in the streets.

Insurance companies switched their role from administrator of claims to dictators of eligibility.

Insurance premiums have risen in leaps and bounds. Employers don't offer health care plans or offer plans that leave individuals and families in the poor house. We've been walking down a path where health care is becoming a luxury of the rich.

Our society has let down the most fragile in our nation; the children, the elderly and the mentally ill. As more and more people get caught in the squeeze, voices get louder.

It just seems to me that it's the natural progression of things. The pendulum can only swing one way for so long before gravity takes over.

I would chat with her when I'm feeling particularly snarky, but I wouldn't ever call her on the phone.

None of these things are guaranteed under a government sponsored medical system. Except for bankruptcy.
Then you have the problem with the government run system becoming nearly bankrupt.
They will eventually cut services and access because it is impossible to provide full medical services to everyone without humongous tax increases.

Then because doctors, hospitals, and medical clinics will become overwhelmed with patients and you will have to wait. Waiting will cause deaths all by itself because they couldn't get the treatment they need.

At the moment the market is rationing services more effectively.

Originally Posted by missypea

I don't think I, personally, am forcing anything on anyone. NHC seems to me to be the next step.

Well whatever you want to call it, you are asking the government to force people who do not want their service to participate. You are also asking them to force the rest of us to pay for it.

Originally Posted by missypea

In the 80's many of our mental health institutions were shut down. We, nationally, closed the door on some of our most needy citizens and literally put them in the streets.

I haven't heard much else about it. Although I never researched it, you would think they would be many problems because of it. Maybe they adapted to a normal life in stead of being stuck in an institution forever.

Originally Posted by missypea

Insurance companies switched their role from administrator of claims to dictators of eligibility.

Insurance premiums have risen in leaps and bounds. Employers don't offer health care plans or offer plans that leave individuals and families in the poor house. We've been walking down a path where health care is becoming a luxury of the rich.

People should pay for doctors visits out of pocket much like car repairs. In our current system people are removed from the true price of services. Insurance should only cover expensive surgical services like car insurance.
. A lot of state governments set the floor on prices and people go to the hospital for the dumbest reasons.

Premiums are rising but they are affordable. If people are buying it then it is affordable.

Originally Posted by missypea

Our society has let down the most fragile in our nation; the children, the elderly and the mentally ill. As more and more people get caught in the squeeze, voices get louder.

It just seems to me that it's the natural progression of things. The pendulum can only swing one way for so long before gravity takes over.

Our society has no responsibility for other peoples children. These kids parents let them down not anyone else is responsible for providing these kids with anything. How about we not pay for pregnancy for people who can't afford it. That may solve the problem.

The natural progression is to examine the problem rationally not jump to conclusions. Deregulation and not requiring the insurance companies to pay for pregnancy might be a good start.

I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
—Adam Shepard

Re: House Passes 2009 SCHIP Bill

I think we should tax the air we breath seeings how we all need it,that way we all get taxed.Oh Boy! more taxes.
And as for nationalized health care pleeeeeease!
The federal government can't run itself, much less another dept.
Do you think that our politicians will use the same health care system???
What are you going to say, when they tell all females able to have kids,that are unmarried,they must take mandatory birth control ,because they are bankrupting the system.
The more you give up now.The more they will take from you later.

Re: House Passes 2009 SCHIP Bill

Originally Posted by rudedog

I think we should tax the air we breath seeings how we all need it,that way we all get taxed.Oh Boy! more taxes.
And as for nationalized health care pleeeeeease!
The federal government can't run itself, much less another dept.
Do you think that our politicians will use the same health care system???
What are you going to say, when they tell all females able to have kids,that are unmarried,they must take mandatory birth control ,because they are bankrupting the system.
The more you give up now.The more they will take from you later.

No matter how many times you point this out to people they still fly on by it thinking that for some reason we will do it right.

As if the United States government has some magical powers to make it work.
Later when services are cut back and the wait to have life saving surgery is many weeks instead of immediately people will say "I never saw that coming."

Its very frustrating trying to convince people that their utopia's are unattainable.

I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
—Adam Shepard

Re: House Passes 2009 SCHIP Bill

Go back through this topic and see the detrimental properties of driving vs smoking.

IF you REALLY want to get into it I'm sure we could accomodate you

Point being, you can drive, I can smoke. We both make those choices, you seem to think that your choice is more important.

My choice is more important. I don't endanger other people's lives to feel good. If my actions endanger other people's lives like second hand smoke does, I do it because it is necessary to properly function in society. That being said, I'm a liberal so I'll compromise with you. I'll only drive a hybrid or electric vehicle if you only smoke something that doesn't pollute the atmosphere or endanger people nearby. What say you?

Re: House Passes 2009 SCHIP Bill

Trying to engage emotional babies in a logical context is an act of circular futility. They do not like something, therefore it is alright to demonize and attack the object of their infantile scorn. Like babies, they are incapable of dealing with their problems without the assistance of some third party; mature conflict resolution is out of the question and any attempts to bring about a sensible and logical dialogue will merely confuse and bewilder them, resulting in yet more emotional outbursts and soiled diapers.

Being upset is enough in and of itself to justify their infringement upon other individual's rights. In an attempt to delude themselves into believing they are right they will proffer a panoply of logical fallacies, red herrings, and appeals to emotion, but this type of behavior is to be expected from infants. However, when something they like is demonized and targeted by other equally stupid and emotional babies they will immediately resent this egregious violation of their individual sovereignty and demand justice be done with alacrity and expediency.

This is the modus operandi of babies. Learn and learn it well...our country is full of them.

Re: House Passes 2009 SCHIP Bill

Originally Posted by danarhea

That's right. You heard it correctly. The Federal government is about to put a 61 cent tax on each pack of cigarettes in order to pay for the SCHIP program. Taxes will also be levied on cigars, smokeless tobacco, and all other tobacco products. This means that, if you are a smoker, or if you chew, the government is going to take more money out of your pocket and give it to someone else.

Now Bush had his problems (a whole crapload of them), but at least he vetoed this theft of money from taxpayers last year after Congress passed it. But there is a new moneygrubber in town, and his name is Obama.

The Senate is taking up the bill right now, and if you are against the Federal government redistributing YOUR money to others, now is the time to let your Senator know that a vote for this bill means one less vote for him when he comes up for reelection.

Dano , moneygrubber doesn`t get it done anymore. We are so F**ked by those who love the stuff more than anything,...people who would sell their children for a small bag of the stuff,...people without souls,...people who would enslave entire continents for profit, that they must be called MONEY WHORES is apparent. Next...,"The Fat Tax", and then, If you try to sit they will tax your seat, if you try to walk they will tax your feet, if you try to drive they will tax the street...(oops thats alraedy been done). Yes taxation will get way the f**k out of control again. These are real democratic "tax and spend politicians" / senate, congress, and POTUS. Thanks for the post Dano.