Sorry to swing this discussion from the colour of buses and what not, but does anybody else think that the Rapid Transit Task Force used nearly no imagination at all? From what I looked at, they only looked at LRT and BRT as realistic options with the occassional mention of the Yonge Street Subway or the Vancouver SkyTrain. I think we can all be realistic with our city government and assume that they didn't for one second consider either a SkyTrain or Subway for Winnipeg because of costs.

To search for myself, a mere citizen of Winnipeg mind you, I decided to take it to the web. I discovered, much as I figured would, that LRT and BRT are not the only realistic options for a city where project budgets are very critical to any new development. There are many options that the city could have investigated.

Although I admit that monorails are extremely expensive and probably out of Winnipeg's price range, there are still models that are perfectly affordable and effective. Side straddle monorails in particular.

Sorry to swing this discussion from the colour of buses and what not, but does anybody else think that the Rapid Transit Task Force used nearly no imagination at all? From what I looked at, they only looked at LRT and BRT as realistic options with the occassional mention of the Yonge Street Subway or the Vancouver SkyTrain. I think we can all be realistic with our city government and assume that they didn't for one second consider either a SkyTrain or Subway for Winnipeg because of costs.

To search for myself, a mere citizen of Winnipeg mind you, I decided to take it to the web. I discovered, much as I figured would, that LRT and BRT are not the only realistic options for a city where project budgets are very critical to any new development. There are many options that the city could have investigated.

Although I admit that monorails are extremely expensive and probably out of Winnipeg's price range, there are still models that are perfectly affordable and effective. Side straddle monorails in particular.

I think the one thing that benefits us regardless is that our city is a lot smaller then say T.O, Vancouver, Montreal, Calgary etc. So our costs to implenment what maybe (subway, LRT, skytrain, BRT etc.) wouldn't nearly be as much as what it costed the other cities. Now because our city is smaller compared too....... people may then say "why do we need RT here?" Fact is, we do need it here and the reasons are endless. If anything, all cities should be encouraged to implenment some form of RT especially if everyone is concerned about Global Warming, Gas Emissions and the enviornment........... it should become a standard in today's living. .

Fact is, we do need it here and the reasons are endless. If anything, all cities should be encouraged to implenment some form of RT especially if everyone is concerned about Global Warming, Gas Emissions and the enviornment........... it should become a standard in today's living.

In true Winnipeg fashion, I have to complain about the sorry state of our city's poor transit system. And adding more diamond lanes or specially "branded" buses with "intelligent" bus stops won't attract new riders. The intent is to increase ridership and attract new users (switch from using car to using transit, etc).

As furiousmcd said, there are lots of options out there. Cost is a factor to be sure, but it can't be the only thing a government should base its final decision on. Sometimes you have to spend more to get more, you know? Build an elevated RT line along Portage Ave to Polo Park. Make Polo Park a transit node with RT transfers to the Airport, Red River College, etc. Heck build it out to Unicity too. Do the same along all our major arteries leaving DT, NIMBYs be damned. But just Do It! It's all been said before, but the longer our Gov't waits and "studies" this ad nauseum, the more expensive and inconvenient it will be to build it.

In true Winnipeg fashion, I have to complain about the sorry state of our city's poor transit system. And adding more diamond lanes or specially "branded" buses with "intelligent" bus stops won't attract new riders. The intent is to increase ridership and attract new users (switch from using car to using transit, etc).

As furiousmcd said, there are lots of options out there. Cost is a factor to be sure, but it can't be the only thing a government should base its final decision on. Sometimes you have to spend more to get more, you know? Build an elevated RT line along Portage Ave to Polo Park. Make Polo Park a transit node with RT transfers to the Airport, Red River College, etc. Heck build it out to Unicity too. Do the same along all our major arteries leaving DT, NIMBYs be damned. But just Do It! It's all been said before, but the longer our Gov't waits and "studies" this ad nauseum, the more expensive and inconvenient it will be to build it.

In true Winnipeg fashion, I have to complain about the sorry state of our city's poor transit system. And adding more diamond lanes or specially "branded" buses with "intelligent" bus stops won't attract new riders. The intent is to increase ridership and attract new users (switch from using car to using transit, etc).

As furiousmcd said, there are lots of options out there. Cost is a factor to be sure, but it can't be the only thing a government should base its final decision on. Sometimes you have to spend more to get more, you know? Build an elevated RT line along Portage Ave to Polo Park. Make Polo Park a transit node with RT transfers to the Airport, Red River College, etc. Heck build it out to Unicity too. Do the same along all our major arteries leaving DT, NIMBYs be damned. But just Do It! It's all been said before, but the longer our Gov't waits and "studies" this ad nauseum, the more expensive and inconvenient it will be to build it.

I too 100% concur

But we all know the famous saying that brands this city like flies on shit and drags this city further and further back in time.
Everyone together now...............one....................two.....................three:

And where would you put the stations? Winnipeg is one of the coldest cities on the planet. When you're standing in -35 C February weather you don't wanna wait outside, even if it's just for 5 to 10 minutes... underground along Portage Avenue and Main St. and through Osborne Village is the best method of keeping people warm while they wait for the train.

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Make Polo Park a transit node with RT transfers to the Airport, Red River College, etc. Heck build it out to Unicity too.

The area is not really called "Unicity" it's called Assiniboia, which includes the Crestview, Westwood, and St. Charles subdivisions. Assiniboia used to be a separate entity called the Rural Municipality of Assiniboia.

However, if it were to secede from Winnipeg it would be considered more urban, so... The City of Assiniboia.

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Do the same along all our major arteries leaving DT, NIMBYs be damned. But just Do It! It's all been said before, but the longer our Gov't waits and "studies" this ad nauseum, the more expensive and inconvenient it will be to build it.

And where would you put the stations? Winnipeg is one of the coldest cities on the planet. When you're standing in -35 C February weather you don't wanna wait outside, even if it's just for 5 to 10 minutes... underground along Portage Avenue and Main St. and through Osborne Village is the best method of keeping people warm while they wait for the train.

While I agree with your reasoning, an underground Subway (for some, ladies?) gives the perception of being a dirty, dangerous place - as if our downtown needed any help in that department! Can you imagine how many undesirables would hang out there?

I say, out of sight (subway) is out of mind. Instead, Winnipeg would be better to build a classy and modern system - at or above grade, advertising (visually) every day to residents and non-residents alike that we are a progressive city that is not ashamed to show off what it's got to offer. It will also add much needed visual density.

And yes on -40 days can you imagine how wonderful it would be to zoom above all those drivers on the crappy roads on a sunny Winnipeg winter day? Why be in a tunnel?

While I agree with your reasoning, an underground Subway (for some, ladies?) gives the perception of being a dirty, dangerous place - as if our downtown needed any help in that department! Can you imagine how many undesirables would hang out there?

Toronto's subway and Vancouver's SkyTrain and Montreal's Metro stations are all quite spiffy clean. I've been in all three since 2000.

As for the undesirables, you need to have good people security (ie Transit police), either riding along on the trains and/or walking the stations and platforms. Vancouver had some major problems with gangs hanging around the platforms and were intimidating the riders. In Toronto you have newsstands that help keep and eye on things. Vancouver is adding that element to the underground SkyTrain stations and it should help improve the safety issue quite considerably.

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I say, out of sight (subway) is out of mind. Instead, Winnipeg would be better to build a classy and modern system - at or above grade, advertising (visually) every day to residents and non-residents alike that we are a progressive city that is not ashamed to show off what it's got to offer. It will also add much needed visual density.

That's what an at-grade streetcar network would do, besides being functional way to move people around the central city.

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And yes on -40 days can you imagine how wonderful it would be to zoom above all those drivers on the crappy roads on a sunny Winnipeg winter day? Why be in a tunnel?

Why be in a tunnel? Because there is more loading capacity on a subway platform than there is above ground. Yes, there are exceptions to this rule... (ie. Chicago El, NY El.), but generally this is true.

Me too. Never met a street car I didn't like (enjoyed Portland and Stuttgart in particular) but I find subways more difficult to navigate. Why be below ground if you don't need to be? We don't really need the huge capacity a subway is built for.

At grade along the previous streetcar lines that existed throughout the city (and around which the city grew) would be my choice for the first and most important leg of a "rail"based transit system.
This would be by far the most bang for the buck in terms of visible impact and public perception of transit.

Have all the bus feeder lines stop around the downtown boundaries (Polo park, Osborne Village, etc.) such that during off peak times the only transit running through the core would be the streetcars. During peak times, it may be neccesary to run a couple of additional express buses, but even those could be done away with, with proper scheduling.

This would get rid of the ugly, noisy, smelly buses clogging the downtown. It would put a modern "in-your-face" transit system in the downtown, and start to build the transit ridership numbers required to start building true "rapid" feeders to the various outer suburbs of the city.