At 02:23 PM 10/5/2005, Pim van Meurs wrote:
>janice matchett wrote:
>
>>At 01:45 PM 10/5/2005, Pim van Meurs wrote:
>>
>>>janice matchett wrote:
>>>
>>>> At 02:45 AM 10/5/2005, Pim van Meurs wrote:
>>>>
>>>>Tim Sandefur has written about the recent Amicus brief filed by 85
>>>>scientists in the Kitzmiller case. The brief can be read here
>>>>http://scit.us/kitz/kitz-dibrief.pdf>>>><http://scit.us/kitz/kitz-dibrief.pdf%A0%A0%A0> I have read the brief
>>>>and am appalled by the many errors in the brief. ..." [snip]
>>>>
>>>>~ Pim
>>>>
>>>>### If serious scientists hope to regain credibility it would be in
>>>>their best interest to distance themselves from people who are promoted
>>>>by *infidels.org* and other web sites promoting atheistic religious
>>>>philosophies.
>>>>http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/1496881/posts?page=96#96>>>
>>>
>>>I assume you similarly consider promoting religious philosophies of any
>>>kind to be a reason to distantiate oneself from the arguments
>>>presented? Janice, your 'arguments' are self defeating and miss the point.
>>>In Christ
>>>Pim
>>
>>
>>#2#2# The complaint of serious scientists is that most people perceive
>>them to be promoting atheism. That perception is reinforced when people
>>notice who they are using as spokespeople in their defense. That's just
>>the way it is. Sorry.
>In other words, a strawman based on 'perception'. So serious scientists
>can still rely on people who are promoted by infidels.org as long as they
>make it clear that the argument is not based on a premise of atheism
>which, as most people know, is a conclusion which cannot be reached based
>on science.
>Serious scientists understand this. But I see you are unwilling to take
>your "logic" to its fullest extent.
>Too bad.

#3#3# You stubbornly resist reality and at the same time accuse me of not
being "logical".

Here's the reality you must face:

Madison Avenue (handling advertising & public relations ) is smart enough
to know that it is impossible to straight-forwardly sell any "product" to
anyone other than emotionally mature engineer types/logical thinkers -
"reality is reality" - (a SMALL minority).

The "majority" are emotion-driven (perception is reality) and are only
interested in "the benefits" they will enjoy if they buy "the product."

The "perception is reality" crowd are easy to sell to if you hire one of
their most-admired pop-culture figures to pitch "the benefits".

That crowd will not buy your product because the people who are trying to
sell it to them are not people they admire or trust. The most vocal,
outspoken sellers of your "product" are atheists.

Here is one of your most outspoken salesmen in action:

"We take the side of science in spite of the patent absurdity of some of
its constructs, in spite of its failure to fulfill many of its extravagant
promises of health and life, in spite of the tolerance of the scientific
community for unsubstantiated just-so stories, because we have a prior
commitment, a commitment to materialism. It is not that the methods and
institutions of science somehow compel us to accept a material explanation
of the phenomenal world, but, on the contrary, that we are forced by our a
priori adherence to material causes to create an apparatus of investigation
and a set of concepts that produce material explanations, no matter how
counter-intuitive, no matter how mystifying to the uninitiated. Moreover,
that materialism is an absolute, for we cannot allow a Divine Foot in the
door. ~ <http://bevets.com/equotesl.htm#rlewontin>Richard Lewontin