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Re: [Deck] Zombardment

Against all the matchups you've mentionned you can slam Gurmag instead of Dino post discard too. You also don't need Ritual to power him out early because Supplier is already a Ritual for Gurmag. Gurmag is also much more flexible in it's cost and will hit play through Daze and Wastelands so much more consistently.

In a deck that wants to abuse GY synergy based on various cards in your GY, Entomb is a CMC1 tutor. This deck wouldn't be viable if I couldn't grab Ghast, Crawler, Therapy, Souls, and mt finishers for 1 mana. Shenanigans also made it so you will mever care about any Artifact ever again if you can just see it once.

I played my latest list at a Legacy 3 round FNM (low turnout) and went 3-0. The only change I made was to swap out the 2 Celestial Purges for 2 Path to Exile.

2-1 Golgari Depths
Entomb for Souls is the only reason this matchup is favorable. White removal shines here too.
2-1 UR Delver
Very hard matchup overall but it is to be expected from the best deck in the format. My boarding plan against this deck is very strong. Bridge is a nice addition here.
2-1 Mono U Delver
Just a watered down version of UR. Scourge won it all.

Do you know what assuming does? It makes an ass out of you and me.
Get it...? Ass, u, me?

Re: [Deck] Zombardment

Originally Posted by Qweerios

Against all the matchups you've mentionned you can slam Gurmag instead of Dino post discard too. You also don't need Ritual to power him out early because Supplier is already a Ritual for Gurmag. Gurmag is also much more flexible in it's cost and will hit play through Daze and Wastelands so much more consistently.

In a deck that wants to abuse GY synergy based on various cards in your GY, Entomb is a CMC1 tutor. This deck wouldn't be viable if I couldn't grab Ghast, Crawler, Therapy, Souls, and mt finishers for 1 mana. Shenanigans also made it so you will mever care about any Artifact ever again if you can just see it once.

I played my latest list at a Legacy 3 round FNM (low turnout) and went 3-0. The only change I made was to swap out the 2 Celestial Purges for 2 Path to Exile.

2-1 Golgari Depths
Entomb for Souls is the only reason this matchup is favorable. White removal shines here too.
2-1 UR Delver
Very hard matchup overall but it is to be expected from the best deck in the format. My boarding plan against this deck is very strong. Bridge is a nice addition here.
2-1 Mono U Delver
Just a watered down version of UR. Scourge won it all.

I see, good points. I think I will try your deck today!
This is with feeders and no gurmags, right? 1 scourge/1 hogaak?

Matches:
sneak n show 2-1 (was supposed to be 2-0, blood moon got him the g2... g3 I won through 2 grafdigger cages on the table)
4c control 2-0 (good matchup)
sneak n show 0-2 (pharaoh killed emrakul, close games... sns is still a bad matchup, so its ok...)
humans 1-2 (never saw 3rd land on g3, hand stuck full of answers, opp played 2 auriok champions)
eldrazi post 2-1 (I came back from karn/lattice and 3 leylines, crazy stuff)
uw humans 2-0 (g1 bobardment took the game, g2 a pharaoh killed his thalia and i was able to cast my stuff, feels like a good matchup also)

Deck felt amazing, I will replace the 2 plague engineers on the sb for EEs, it can deal with more stuff... for small creatures we have bombardment anyways, EEs seems more versatile, in that slot.

Matches:
sneak n show 2-1 (was supposed to be 2-0, blood moon got him the g2... g3 I won through 2 grafdigger cages on the table)
4c control 2-0 (good matchup)
sneak n show 0-2 (pharaoh killed emrakul, close games... sns is still a bad matchup, so its ok...)
humans 1-2 (never saw 3rd land on g3, hand stuck full of answers, opp played 2 auriok champions)
eldrazi post 2-1 (I came back from karn/lattice and 3 leylines, crazy stuff)
uw humans 2-0 (g1 bobardment took the game, g2 a pharaoh killed his thalia and i was able to cast my stuff, feels like a good matchup also)

Deck felt amazing, I will replace the 2 plague engineers on the sb for EEs, it can deal with more stuff... for small creatures we have bombardment anyways, EEs seems more versatile, in that slot.

Not bad. It's nice to see someone playing around with a green splash. I'll get on it sooner or later. I've got questions and feedback for you though.

Why Hymn and no Thoughtseize? In all the years I've played this deck TS on T1 has been the single best T1 play the deck has ever seen. It breaks open Therapy (which acts as Hymn most of the time if you TS T1) and is our best piece of interraction with combo decks. I would play 3 copies at the very minimum, and would play more than 4 if I was not on Entomb and my meta had multiple Sneak n Show players. This matchup is already difficult for me with 4 TS 4 Therapy 4 Entomb 2 Wear so I can imagine it would be ever worst for you. I'd switch out Pharaoh and 2 Hymn for a solid 3 TS for starters, it can only improve your synergy.

Have you tried switching Trophy and Decay from your main/side? Removal pre-board is mostly for fast threats and Trophy gives up precious tempo. Decay handles 95% of what Trophy deals with G1 and the uncounterable clause is very relevant when sinking 2 mana in removing a Delver/Pyro/Arcanist/Goyf or most things control decks throw at you for that matter. 3 Decay main and 2 Trophy side sounds more much better.

Plague Engineer is you're best friend... you're meta has many Humans players and Eldraz!. After that run I wouldn't be tempted to change them up for explosives, I'd trim the fat in your SB elsewhere first (5 GY hate!?).

You're in green? You want Karakas? You're GY hate package is clunky? Grab a pair of Crop Rotations and all your troubles will go away! Trim a Karakas, 3 Leylines and throw in 2 Crops and a Bog and you will find space for that EE you've been dreaming about.

I have to go for now but there's more where that came from. Good luck!

Do you know what assuming does? It makes an ass out of you and me.
Get it...? Ass, u, me?

Re: [Deck] Zombardment

I will definitely try 2 crop+karakas+bojuka on the side.

On hymn vs seize I don't really have a clear answer for that, I was playing the version with dinos/dark rituals so Hymn was great there, I might just had forgotten about it and left it on the deck on big tournaments we usually have more burn players, so thats slight better too.

Engineer is amazing I agree, but EEs can also answer chalice/vial/cage and some annoying stuff that plague cant, so I think its worth the shot. maybe a 1/2 split.

Trophy maindeck can answer everything, thats the reason for it to be MD. It can take out an Eye of Ugin (im reaaaaallly afraid of that tbh, traumatized), Jace, Karn, Sneak Attack, big creatures, Karakas, Depths... Against delver decks I usually try to get a dragon/hogaak out and race trough them. Im still on the fence about switching them to decays.

Re: [Deck] Zombardment

Originally Posted by johncarvalho

I will definitely try 2 crop+karakas+bojuka on the side.

On hymn vs seize I don't really have a clear answer for that, I was playing the version with dinos/dark rituals so Hymn was great there, I might just had forgotten about it and left it on the deck on big tournaments we usually have more burn players, so thats slight better too.

Engineer is amazing I agree, but EEs can also answer chalice/vial/cage and some annoying stuff that plague cant, so I think its worth the shot. maybe a 1/2 split.

Trophy maindeck can answer everything, thats the reason for it to be MD. It can take out an Eye of Ugin (im reaaaaallly afraid of that tbh, traumatized), Jace, Karn, Sneak Attack, big creatures, Karakas, Depths... Against delver decks I usually try to get a dragon/hogaak out and race trough them. Im still on the fence about switching them to decays.

Thanks for the feedback man, looking forward for more!

If you are edging against Burn I suggest replacing some number of TS for IoK. Hand information in a Therapy deck is extremely valuable. Discard is an inherently tempo-negative card as you are paying mana to remove cards that have not yet been paid for. Hymn costs 2 mana and removes 2 random cards. TS/IoK cost 1 mana and remove their most important card AND it gives you complete hand information. Any Therapy following a TS/IoK will discard AT LEAST 2 of their BEST non-land cards. As an engine deck, targeted discard is exponentially better than random discard. Unlike Team America, we don't care about hitting Lands to follow up with Wastelands, or removal spells and slam Delvers and Goyfs. The few cards we care to discard are the ones that prevent us from deploying our engine or ignore it altogether. It doesn't matter if we hit a Bolt and a FoW if our opponent slams an Arcanist. Better just hit the Arcanist every time if you can.

No doubt that EE is a great card. It is very solid against most of the field right now. Engineer is a hoser for so many matchups that can rain on our parade on top of being a generally good card too. I would supplement Engineer with EE and not the other way around.

Perhaps you are overreacting to some cards with Trophy, or maybe you're meta is very different from mine. The cards you mention are not the main reason I would pack removal spells, and quite frankly, Trophy is a poor way to deal with them altogether. Eye of Ugin is a 2 mana land that needs at least 3 more land drops (earliest is a T4 activation unless Candelabra shenanigans) to yield a T5 threat IF they spend their entire T4 on it. Giving Jace decks a shuffle and a basic after they Brainstorm is a losing proposition. Karn isn't the most common but trophy does interact with him... Trophy on Sneak Attack is too little too late. If you get a chance to do that and it gives you the win, you're getting lucky to begin with. Karakas only affects Hogaak. Trophy has an extremely narrow window to deal with Depths and they usually pack 6-7 discard spells to begin with. Of all the cards you've named, Wasteland has a greater impact on those cards or the decks they are being played in while also having a much wider application. Let's look at the most common archetypes you would want removal for:

UR Delver: The best Delver deck at the moment. An unanswered Arcanist will bury you. Decay is uncounterable and they play basic lands. Clear Decay favorite.

RUG and 4c Delver: 2nd most common Delver variant. No basic lands but the full mana denial + counters suite. Trophy can hit Gurmag from 4c but getting rid of any of their threats unconditionally is invaluable here. Decay is a clear favorite here too.

DnT/Maverick: Basic lands and equipments. Both Decay and Trophy hit everything in these MU except Batterskull. Thalia, Equipments, Ooze, and KotR are the main targets. Giving them a basic land is the deal breaker here. Decay is better.

Burn: Decay hits everything and gives no lands so a clear winner here.

Miracles: The most important targets for removal in this matchup are Counterbalance and Mentor. Decay hits both while uncounterable. Trophy can kill Jace in a pinch but Jace is not a priority as he doesn't prevent us from playing our engine. Having your Decay countered on CB or Mentor loses games. Decay is better here despite not hitting Jace.

Grixis/Snow Control: Removal isn't great here but Trophy can hit all the major players in exchange for a land. Grixis plays Gurmag, Jace, Plague, LtLH. 4c plays W6, Jace, Leo, and Plague. Decay hits everything except Jace and Gurmag. I'd say both cards are about even, and both mediocre (AKA: SB out).

Stoneblade: Both removal spells kinda suck here but at least Trophy can hit BSK and Jace. Trophy is better for this MU.

Lands: Trophy is better here because it hits Lands... Decay isn't great here because it has few targets (couple W6, sometimes a Tracker, Explore). Trophy is a clear favorite here

Depths: Trophy can kill lands while Decay is mostly dead. Trophy is a clear favorite.

Reanimator: Non-exile removal kinds blows in this MU. Trophy can deal with a non-griselbrand threat quite decently while Decay is completely dead. Advantage to Trophy.

Sneak n Show: Removal spells suck in this matchup. At least Trophy isn't completely dead G1 but I would side them out G2-3. Slight advantage to Trophy

The other combo decks don't really care for removal.

Against all the matchups where removal is important, Decay is generally better when Trophy is generally OK or straight up atrocious. Of all the matchups where removal is generally subpar, Trophy is better because it can interact where Decay cannot. Unless your meta is full of Chalice Stompy decks and Dark Depths, Decay is better than Trophy. And if your meta is indeed filled with Depths and Stompy decks, I suggest Wastelands (maybe with a Loam to Entomb?) or a white splash (Souls and Rampage main + Exile removal SB) before Trophy.

Golgari Charm mostly got replaced by Plague Engineer, EE, and Trophy. Those 3 cards offer more coverage for more matchups than Charm and Decay out of the board. Crop Rotation and Grudge are very good reasons to be splashing green. Crop is inherently good with Ghasts and can grab Tower/Paradise when trying to enable an engine. It's also a great answer to our worst matchups. The Crop package is well worth the SB space IMHO, especially when you consider how Bog and Karakas are extremely difficult to deal with for our worst matchups. Trophy is an upgrade to Wear // Tear as it can come in in almost any matchup to supplement the Decay package or when dealing with strong nonbasic lands.

I think your main list with 4 Entomb is pretty good. I would definitely cut the 2 Hymns and Pharaoh for 3 Thoughtseizes, swap 3 Trophy for 3 Decay (better side than main IMO), and try to squeeze a 3rd Bayou over the 3rd Swamp or Phyrexian Tower in order to have better access to green when you bring in your green cards against Wasteland decks. I would also play a 4th TS over Anger but you seem to really enjoy it and I have no actual experience with the card.

Do you know what assuming does? It makes an ass out of you and me.
Get it...? Ass, u, me?

Re: [Deck] Zombardment

Leyline is pretty scarce and usually comes out of deck that can't play Surgical Extraction like Eldrazi. I don't really have a problem playing without a GY if it means my opponent diluted his game plan. Eldrazi and decks like 4c Loam are the worst because they pack Chalice + Leyline + large creatures. There was a time I packed 4 Wear // Tear for Chalice + Leyline decks and I would still lose to those openers. I accept those losses now because even with the proper answers, Leyline + Chalice openers are generally too good and requires our opponent to brick on everything else (it happens sometimes). When combo decks bring in Leylines (some Depths and Dredge decks) I am really glad they spent a card to get rid of my GY.

Do you know what assuming does? It makes an ass out of you and me.
Get it...? Ass, u, me?

Re: [Deck] Zombardment

Originally Posted by Qweerios

Leyline is pretty scarce and usually comes out of deck that can't play Surgical Extraction like Eldrazi. I don't really have a problem playing without a GY if it means my opponent diluted his game plan. Eldrazi and decks like 4c Loam are the worst because they pack Chalice + Leyline + large creatures. There was a time I packed 4 Wear // Tear for Chalice + Leyline decks and I would still lose to those openers. I accept those losses now because even with the proper answers, Leyline + Chalice openers are generally too good and requires our opponent to brick on everything else (it happens sometimes). When combo decks bring in Leylines (some Depths and Dredge decks) I am really glad they spent a card to get rid of my GY.

I won vs eldrazi post with karn+lattice and 1 leyline turn 0 and 2 more leylines cast with urborg, but there were a lot missplays but his part... he attacked me with the lattice into my pharaoh

Eldrazi (both versions) are some of the worst (if not the worst) matchups for us, chalice is a hoser, ballista takes out bridges, we cant block smasher and tks, its just plain bad... i wanna try Hull Breach, any thoughts about that card? I saw some recent zombardment lists with it, its like the gr wear/tear.

Re: [Deck] Zombardment

I think that if you want a better Eldrazi matchup you need fatties. Gurmag Angler on T2 via Supplier is a great way to play this matchup. Hull Breach is a remedy to Chalice + Leyline but that's about all it excels at. Angrath's Rampage is pretty solid here too. Feeder and Bridge tricks go unchecked because of their lack of interaction. G1 will always be bad because our deck is inherently bad against theirs. The best we can do is be prepared for G2 and accept that some matchups will never be favorable. It's like a Burn deck vs. a life gain deck at this point... Yes the burn player can play cards that burn and prevent life gain but the life deck is inherently better positioned to win no matter the SB plans. My boarding plan against Eldrazi usually involves taking out my 8 discard spells and 3 bombardments. Discard + Bombardment is kinda the premise of our deck, it just doesn't work well here so that leaves us with up to 11 SB slots to come in.

Re: [Deck] Zombardment

Originally Posted by johncarvalho

Might be a good addition, maybe replacing feeders and bridges? playing something like loam, 2 crops, wasteland, karakas and bog maindeck?

Yeah replacing Feeder and Bridges is probably the first thing on the chopping block. Loam and Wastes would definitely make it in the main along with Decays but I would likely keep Crop Rotations, Bog and Karakas in the SB. The cool thing about Loam in this deck is that it doesn't rely on Wasteland to be a good card, it can simply Dredge a few goodies, trigger some Ghasts, or generate great card advantage with Looting. Starting to Waste-Loam is but the cherry on top. Another perk about Loam is that you don't have to be worried about milling important lands either. This makes it quite easy to play something like 1 Scrubland for 1-2 Souls main even though the deck is now in Jund colors.

You can even drop the Scrubland and Souls if you prefer other cards. I just think having Souls as a bullet goes a long way enabling Scourge and by stalling Depths and various aggressive boards.

A big loss with this setup is not being able to play Silent Gravestone or Ground Seal in the SB because we rely on Loam now. However this brings back Surgical which definitely has its perks coupled with discard effects.

A major reason for this configuration IMO is having 4 Decays main. With UR Delver and W6 Delver decks representing 20% of the online meta. Having uncounterable removal for Delver, Arcanist, Goyf, and W6 is crucial. Removing hosers like Jitte from DnT, Chalice from Stompy, Counterbalance from Miracles and even Plague Engineer from Grixis/Snow Control for instance is invaluable and skyrockets our win percentage against those decks.

Do you know what assuming does? It makes an ass out of you and me.
Get it...? Ass, u, me?

Re: [Deck] Zombardment

I was checking this new Sevinne's Reclamation card mfrom commander and it might fit nicely on our deck! Getting back milled bombardments or Liliana (among other stuff) looks really nice! With the flashback you get 2 cards, so it can even be a bombardment+phyrexian altar combo. It just needs to be a mill-heavier build, with some ashiok and stuff like that.
Just spitting out some ideas

Loam is cool, I'm gonna get one to try it! Not sure about the white splash just for souls.