The Linux Community is Killing Linux.

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"Linux Snobs: Real Barriers to Entry
by Walter V. Koenning for the OPINION/EDITORIAL section on
reallylinux.com.

One particularly distraught new Linux user came to me and shared how
his meeting with a number of Linux "pros" turned to a bash Windows,
bash him and bash everything he said gathering. Instead of answering
his question regarding which GUI they prefer to use on their systems,
the response was a clear: "you ignoramous! Go back to your Windows." ""

Hey that sounds just like comp.os.linux.advocacy and just about every
other Linux group I have read.
It's no wonder Linux is going down the drain faster than yesterday's
sushi.
The group comp.os.linux.advocacy should be renamed to
"Microsoft.bashing"

At some point the Linux high and mighty will figure out that they need
to come down from the mountain to meet the masses, but at that point
there won't be any masses left.

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On 19 Apr 2006 10:49:53 -0700, wrote:
>http://www.reallylinux.com/docs/snobsoped.shtml
>
>"Linux Snobs: Real Barriers to Entry
>by Walter V. Koenning for the OPINION/EDITORIAL section on
>reallylinux.com.
>
>One particularly distraught new Linux user came to me and shared how
>his meeting with a number of Linux "pros" turned to a bash Windows,
>bash him and bash everything he said gathering. Instead of answering
>his question regarding which GUI they prefer to use on their systems,
>the response was a clear: "you ignoramous! Go back to your Windows." ""

Thank you for the informative link. It has valuable advice for all of
us.
>Hey that sounds just like comp.os.linux.advocacy and just about every
>other Linux group I have read.
>It's no wonder Linux is going down the drain faster than yesterday's
>sushi.
>The group comp.os.linux.advocacy should be renamed to
>"Microsoft.bashing"
>
>At some point the Linux high and mighty will figure out that they need
>to come down from the mountain to meet the masses, but at that point
>there won't be any masses left.

On 19 Apr 2006 10:49:53 -0700, wrote:
>http://www.reallylinux.com/docs/snobsoped.shtml
>
>"Linux Snobs: Real Barriers to Entry
>by Walter V. Koenning for the OPINION/EDITORIAL section on
>reallylinux.com.
>
>One particularly distraught new Linux user came to me and shared how
>his meeting with a number of Linux "pros" turned to a bash Windows,
>bash him and bash everything he said gathering. Instead of answering
>his question regarding which GUI they prefer to use on their systems,
>the response was a clear: "you ignoramous! Go back to your Windows." ""
>
>
>Hey that sounds just like comp.os.linux.advocacy and just about every
>other Linux group I have read.

Sadly true
>It's no wonder Linux is going down the drain faster than yesterday's
>sushi.

Fortunately not true
>The group comp.os.linux.advocacy should be renamed to
>"Microsoft.bashing"

Indeed.
Although Microsft often needs a good bashing. Just not every day.
>
>At some point the Linux high and mighty will figure out that they need
>to come down from the mountain to meet the masses, but at that point
>there won't be any masses left.

Linux is spreading well. A basic system for Email web browsing and
basic office work is easier to set up than Widows XP. I know because
I do both on a regular basis. The problem with Linux is when one wants
a bit more than the basics. Hopefully as people become more aware of
just what a computer can do they will select the system that is most
useful to them.

<> wrote in message
news:...
> http://www.reallylinux.com/docs/snobsoped.shtml
>
> "Linux Snobs: Real Barriers to Entry
> by Walter V. Koenning for the OPINION/EDITORIAL section on
> reallylinux.com.
>
> One particularly distraught new Linux user came to me and shared how
> his meeting with a number of Linux "pros" turned to a bash Windows,
> bash him and bash everything he said gathering. Instead of answering
> his question regarding which GUI they prefer to use on their systems,
> the response was a clear: "you ignoramous! Go back to your Windows." ""
>
>
> Hey that sounds just like comp.os.linux.advocacy and just about every
> other Linux group I have read.
> It's no wonder Linux is going down the drain faster than yesterday's
> sushi.
> The group comp.os.linux.advocacy should be renamed to
> "Microsoft.bashing"
>
> At some point the Linux high and mighty will figure out that they need
> to come down from the mountain to meet the masses, but at that point
> there won't be any masses left.
>

Let me stand in the middle here and say that you're emotionally charged and
"in your face, you big meanie" attitude make you into the very type of
person (linux guru or not) that you claim to be against. Often people in
these groups accuse others of trolling where according to wikipedia's
definition of a troll, they were not actually intending to annoy or
irritate. It is obvious that a troll is someone 'with an attitude' if you
go by wiki's definition. In this case, they are right in calling you a
troll. You took a balanced and well-minded article and added a rude
commentary to it. Shame on you.

On 2006-04-19, <> wrote:
> http://www.reallylinux.com/docs/snobsoped.shtml
>
> "Linux Snobs: Real Barriers to Entry
> by Walter V. Koenning for the OPINION/EDITORIAL section on
> reallylinux.com.
>
> One particularly distraught new Linux user came to me and shared how
> his meeting with a number of Linux "pros" turned to a bash Windows,
> bash him and bash everything he said gathering. Instead of answering
> his question regarding which GUI they prefer to use on their systems,
> the response was a clear: "you ignoramous! Go back to your Windows." ""
>
>
> Hey that sounds just like comp.os.linux.advocacy and just about every
> other Linux group I have read.

LIAR.

This group spefically exists to keep *.advocacy noise out of
the other groups. The fact that this *.advocacy group is a bit off a
cesspool has nothing to do with Linux. All *.advocacy groups attract
trolls and flamers.

Like I said, that's what they're for... a honeypot of sorts.

[deletia]

Now, the so-called IT professional mentioned in that article
deserved every bit of abuse he got for acting like a helpless ninny.

--
....as if the ability to run Cubase ever made or broke a platform.
|||
/ | \

On Wed, 19 Apr 2006 10:49:53 +0000, susan.fahgin wrote:
> http://www.reallylinux.com/docs/snobsoped.shtml
>
> "Linux Snobs: Real Barriers to Entry
> by Walter V. Koenning for the OPINION/EDITORIAL section on
> reallylinux.com.
>
> One particularly distraught new Linux user came to me and shared how his
> meeting with a number of Linux "pros" turned to a bash Windows, bash him
> and bash everything he said gathering. Instead of answering his question
> regarding which GUI they prefer to use on their systems, the response was
> a clear: "you ignoramous! Go back to your Windows." ""
>
>
> Hey that sounds just like comp.os.linux.advocacy and just about every
> other Linux group I have read.
> It's no wonder Linux is going down the drain faster than yesterday's
> sushi.
> The group comp.os.linux.advocacy should be renamed to "Microsoft.bashing"
>
> At some point the Linux high and mighty will figure out that they need to
> come down from the mountain to meet the masses, but at that point there
> won't be any masses left.

"Windope Snobs: Real Barriers to Entry
by Waiter V. Klingon for the OPINION/EDITORIAL section on
reallyclippy.com.

One particularly distraught new Windoze eXpee Homo edition
user came to me and shared how
his meeting with a number of Windope "pros" turned to a bash Windows,
bash him and bash everything he said gathering. Instead of answering
his question regarding which Clippy they prefer to use on their systems,
the response was a clear: "you ignoramous! Go back to your DoS." ""

Hey that sounds just like comp.os.linux.advocacy! and just about every
other Linux group I have read.
It's no wonder Linux is beating up windopes faster than yesterday's
sushi.
The group comp.os.linux.advocacy should be renamed to
"Micoshaft.bashing" because they really are bashing windopes
without even trying!!
Hundreds of free livecd distros out there bashing windopes by the dozenhttp://www.livecdlist.com
and we have is $399 copy of windope eXpee homo edition to show
for it. In straight productivity tests, windopes is no good.

At some point the Linux high and mighty will figure out
how to crush windopes accidentally and that they needn't
to come down from the mountain to meet the masses, but at that point
there won't be any masses left, they will have switched to
GNU/Linux.

JEDIDIAH <> writes:
>On 2006-04-19, <> wrote:
>> http://www.reallylinux.com/docs/snobsoped.shtml
>>
>> "Linux Snobs: Real Barriers to Entry
>> by Walter V. Koenning for the OPINION/EDITORIAL section on
>> reallylinux.com.
>>
>> One particularly distraught new Linux user came to me and shared how
>> his meeting with a number of Linux "pros" turned to a bash Windows,
>> bash him and bash everything he said gathering. Instead of answering
>> his question regarding which GUI they prefer to use on their systems,
>> the response was a clear: "you ignoramous! Go back to your Windows." ""
>>
>>
>> Hey that sounds just like comp.os.linux.advocacy and just about every
>> other Linux group I have read.
> LIAR.
....
> Now, the so-called IT professional mentioned in that article
>deserved every bit of abuse he got for acting like a helpless ninny.

Of course we have absolutely no idea who that responder was and if he was
an "IT professional" or even a "Linux pro". All we know is that the new
Linux user thought he was one. It could even have been someone who sees it
as his purpose to insult newbies in the name of Linux to discourage them
from taking up Linux.

We also have no idea what and how he asked the question. Eg." Linux is a
complete disaster. I have been trying Linux for the last hour and it is
clear that Linux will never be able to compete with Windows. How in the
world can i do anything when all I get in front of me is a blank black
screen with a white login: in the top left corner?"
If that was how he asked his question he deserved everything he got, and I
have seen people, Linux newbies, ask questions like that.

On the other hand I have also seen people who really can help with Linux
snap at some newbie for asking a perfectly reasonable question. ( And I
have seen far more people actually try to help them).

Ie, this article contains too little information to come to any conclusion.

Yes, some people are assholes, ( and even more are assholes some of the
time), but that is true in all aspects of life, including driving cars.
(The number of people who honk at cars with huge L plates on the back of
the car, or cut them off is also rediculous)

"lesbian Hitler" <> writes:
>On Wed, 19 Apr 2006 10:49:53 +0000, susan.fahgin wrote:
>> http://www.reallylinux.com/docs/snobsoped.shtml
>>
>> "Linux Snobs: Real Barriers to Entry
>> by Walter V. Koenning for the OPINION/EDITORIAL section on
>> reallylinux.com.
>>
>> One particularly distraught new Linux user came to me and shared how his
>> meeting with a number of Linux "pros" turned to a bash Windows, bash him
>> and bash everything he said gathering. Instead of answering his question
>> regarding which GUI they prefer to use on their systems, the response was
>> a clear: "you ignoramous! Go back to your Windows." ""
>>
>>
>> Hey that sounds just like comp.os.linux.advocacy and just about every
>> other Linux group I have read.
>> It's no wonder Linux is going down the drain faster than yesterday's
>> sushi.
>> The group comp.os.linux.advocacy should be renamed to "Microsoft.bashing"
>>
>> At some point the Linux high and mighty will figure out that they need to
>> come down from the mountain to meet the masses, but at that point there
>> won't be any masses left.
>The official linux FAQ:
>Q: How do I install Linux?
>A: RTFM dumbass
>Q: What programs can I run on Linux?
>A: RTFM dumbass
>Q: Is Linux suitable for desktop use in my office?
>A: RTFM dumbass
>Q: Can I run games on Linux?
>A: RTFM dumbass
>Q: Is Linux secure?
>A: RTFM dumbass
>Q: Is Linux user friendly?
>A: RTFM dumbass
>Q: So what do I get for the money?
>A: What you pay for, ultimately.

Yes, perfect example of the attitude. (Probably not the way it was intended
however).
>

On Wed, 19 Apr 2006 13:41:25 -0500, JEDIDIAH <> wrote:
>On 2006-04-19, <> wrote:
>> http://www.reallylinux.com/docs/snobsoped.shtml
>>
>> "Linux Snobs: Real Barriers to Entry
>> by Walter V. Koenning for the OPINION/EDITORIAL section on
>> reallylinux.com.
>>
>> One particularly distraught new Linux user came to me and shared how
>> his meeting with a number of Linux "pros" turned to a bash Windows,
>> bash him and bash everything he said gathering. Instead of answering
>> his question regarding which GUI they prefer to use on their systems,
>> the response was a clear: "you ignoramous! Go back to your Windows." ""
>>
>>
>> Hey that sounds just like comp.os.linux.advocacy and just about every
>> other Linux group I have read.
>
> LIAR.
>
> This group spefically exists to keep *.advocacy noise out of
>the other groups.

The why the HELL do you posters keep crossposting this all over usenet? Do you
ever pay the slightest bit of attention to what you're doing? Or is it that
you're just too stupid to keep the topic where it started, or maybe that you're
*SO* easily trolled that you just can't resist?

"You just made a liar out of yourself with the above statement. I hope you
realise that."

--
<Prowler> AB, do you know how to speak to the dead yet?
<AB> ...
<AB> Prowler: Yes. It's part of RCN Abuse training.

Welcome to comp.os.linux.advocacy, otherwise known as cola. This
FAQ will try to address most of the issues regarding Linux and
this group. Unlike the other FAQs, this one will try to be as
realistic as possible. If you want the straight information from
real people, continue reading. If you would like to be told what
you want to hear, or read a bunch of misinformation that you will
regret later as you find things don't work as they should, feel free
to read one of the other "FAQS" in here.

OK, on to the info! ADDED NEW SECTION BELOW!

Here's a list of some frequently asked and answered question here
and elsewhere that you may find useful in your quest to try linux.
Read these carefully before you decide to invest time in Linux, you
may find that you have better things you can do instead.

SECTION ONE - INSTALLATION
--------------------------

1.1 Q: I heard linux was easy to install, is it?
A: That depends on what distro you try. Most of them will have
trouble detecting all your hardware. Most new hardware devices
are not supported. If your lucky you might be able to find
something that someone threw together on the net. But that's
after spending a couple hours searching and probably won't take
advantage of your hardware to it's fullest capability.

1.2 Q: Once I get it installed, then what?
A: Then you get the joy of making sure everything is configured
right. Plan on a minimum of two hours per device to get it to
work. That's if the device is even supported.

1.3 Q: What happens if I'm in the middle of an install and the
installation freezes or just stops?
A: You get to reboot and start all over again. This happens
every so often with Linux. It seems like it's buggy install
routines or something. Ain't Linux grand?

1.4 Q: What's the deal?! I installed Linux and it took up almost 2GB
hard drive space!
A: The Linux distros usually install a LOT of never-used programs
on the default install. You can pick and choose what you want,
but good luck figuring out what programs are needed and what is
useless, obscure tools. Linux usually installs stuff like 10
different editors, 12 different mail clients, and so on.

(more to come...)

SECTION TWO - CONFIGURATION
---------------------------

2.1 Q: What's with all these cryptic files?
A: All of Linux is configured with cryptic text files. Some of
the more user-friendly distros have configuration utilities
that claim to do it for you, but success with these works
sometimes and other times don't, so sometimes you have to
edit them by hand. With Linux's spotty reliability in UI
programming, you might as well get used to it.

2.2 Q: What is killall, HUP, ls, cat, rm, which, etc and why are
these programs telling me to do them? Arggg!!
A: These are command line programs that do things within the
system. It's what makes Linux a powerful OS for those that
are experienced with it. But it's also what makes it a pain
in the arse to use and inefficient as a desktop system. Who
wants to type all the time when they can just click?!

(more to come...)

SECTION THREE - APPLICATIONS
----------------------------

3.1 Q: Where can I get some programs to run on linux?
A: Good question. Because Linux doesn't have a large user base
on the desktop,(I think it's about 0.24%, less than 1%)
companies that make software won't write their programs for
Linux. There's a lot of community created programs out there,
and some are fairly good, but those are few and far between.
Most of the Linux software that tries to mimic it's windows
counterpart is substandard. It's usually slow and buggy and
early in development.

3.2 Q: I tried to install an RPM but I got 'failed dependencies', what
is that?
A: That's Linux's version of DLL hell. Different versions and
distros use different libraries. So unlike windows where
programs will run on many different versions, Linux programs
will fail if they're not made for your specific version.

3.3 Q: What is compiling and configure, make and make install? And
what is a makefile?
A: This is a way to build the programs from the source code
under Linux. When the question above fails, you can always
build it yourself. The advantage is that it works most of
the time. The disadvantage is that it takes forever to build
large programs, you need to know some cryptic commands and
you have to do all this on a command line. Unlike Windows
where you just double click and you are done.

3.4 Q: Can I go to my local store to buy any Linux applications?
A: Not really. You can buy Linux itself at various stores. But
not too many commercial companies make applications for Linux,
there's no profit in it with 0.24% of the desktop market.

(more to come...)

SECTION FOUR - SPEED ISSUES
---------------------------

4.1 Q: Why is Linux so slow?
A: Linux is built on the technology of the old UNIX OS's. Even
the graphical user interface of Linux is a separate program that
is the same type they used back in the older UNIX days. So
working with old technology will give you the old technology
responsiveness. Also, a lot of the GUI's, although nice to look
at, are still not mature. Using them is slow and sluggish
compared to, say, Windows.

(more to come...)

SECTION FIVE - CONSISTENCY
--------------------------

5.1 Q: Why are the windows different looking?
A: Since Linux isn't built by one company, group or have any
governing body, programs and interfaces can vary dramatically.
You can have everything from the nice look of KDE, to something
as ugly as TK and everything in between. You'll usually see some
varying UI stile in Linux.

5.2 Q: Should I buy Suse Linux?
A: No. They make it difficult to get it for free. All the other
distros provide free ISO's to download. Suse is the only one
that doesn't provide them but instead has a FTP install that's
hard to get to work. Why should they make it easy? The more
people that can't get the download to work have to spend $80
or more for the boxed set. And on top of all that although
it might have a few more user friendly tools, it's still the
same base Linux system that's in development and that all the
other distros are using. In other words, they're all on about
the same level of struggling to catch up to Windows, so you're
not going to find any earth-shattering features in one compared
to another.

(more to come...)

SECTION SIX - LINUX COMMUNITY
-----------------------------

6.1 Q: What is RTFM?!
A: This is an acronym for Read The Fuc*ing Manual. This is a
common
answer you'll get when asking for help in the Linux community.
It's meant to make you feel inadequate while boating the Linux
persons ego at the same time. See, Linux enthusiasts consider
themselves to be guru like and above helping out the simple
newbie. You have to earn your respect by spending countless
hours becoming a kernel hacker before you're worthy of getting
any help.

6.2 Q: Why does everyone think they are better than you when using
Linux?
A: Same as above. When people use Linux they believe since it
takes
a little more knowledge to use Linux, they are technically
superior,
and see themselves as an elite group that doesn't have time for
the
pathetic little Windows people.

7.1 Q: Everyone in here says linux is perfect, why would they say that
if it isn't?
A: We really don't know. Maybe they've used Linux so long that
they've gotten used to it. Some of these people haven't used
Windows in years so they are comparing Linux to the last windows
they used, maybe Windows 3.1 or 95.

7.2 Q: Why does everyone call you a troll when you ask something that
questions linux?
A: Most of the people here in C.O.L.A. think of Linux more like a
religion than an OS. They mostly are MS haters and feel that
Linux is the greatest thing to ever hit computing. So when
someone questions Linux it's like questioning their belief
system. Instead of looking at it with some logic and reasonable
judgment, they will lash out at you can't claim your are a troll
or a paid MS supporter.

7.3 Q: Why does everyone <PLONK> you if you question Linux?
A: Fairly similar to above, Linux advocates can not argue their
point rationally. So to make it look like you are under them or
you are not worth it, and at the same time find an easy way out
of having to prove themselves, they will <PLONK> you.

8.1 Q: There are some people that call this FAQ lies and seem to treat
it like it's a conspiracy against them, and post all sorts of
links
to
anti-microsoft articles. Why are they reacting so strongly?
A: The people that are reacting so strongly are most likely the
Linux
extremists that believe everything negitive that is said about
Linux
comes from Microsoft. Like many cult-like groups, the people
that
belong to them don't have the ability to see things rationally
or
outside of their view. If someone replies to the FAQ, or
anything
questioning a non-favorable view on Linux, that seems a little
"over the edge", do a google search on the person
(http://groups.google.com/) and look at his/her posting history
then
decide for yourself if the person is credible or not.

(more to come...)

lesbian Hitler wrote:
> On Wed, 19 Apr 2006 10:49:53 +0000, susan.fahgin wrote:
>
> > http://www.reallylinux.com/docs/snobsoped.shtml
> >
> > "Linux Snobs: Real Barriers to Entry
> > by Walter V. Koenning for the OPINION/EDITORIAL section on
> > reallylinux.com.
> >
> > One particularly distraught new Linux user came to me and shared how his
> > meeting with a number of Linux "pros" turned to a bash Windows, bash him
> > and bash everything he said gathering. Instead of answering his question
> > regarding which GUI they prefer to use on their systems, the response was
> > a clear: "you ignoramous! Go back to your Windows." ""
> >
> >
> > Hey that sounds just like comp.os.linux.advocacy and just about every
> > other Linux group I have read.
> > It's no wonder Linux is going down the drain faster than yesterday's
> > sushi.
> > The group comp.os.linux.advocacy should be renamed to "Microsoft.bashing"
> >
> > At some point the Linux high and mighty will figure out that they need to
> > come down from the mountain to meet the masses, but at that point there
> > won't be any masses left.
>
> The official linux FAQ:
>
> Q: How do I install Linux?
>
> A: RTFM dumbass
>
> Q: What programs can I run on Linux?
>
> A: RTFM dumbass
>
> Q: Is Linux suitable for desktop use in my office?
>
> A: RTFM dumbass
>
> Q: Can I run games on Linux?
>
> A: RTFM dumbass
>
> Q: Is Linux secure?
>
> A: RTFM dumbass
>
> Q: Is Linux user friendly?
>
> A: RTFM dumbass
>
> Q: So what do I get for the money?
>
> A: What you pay for, ultimately.

On Wed, 19 Apr 2006 16:36:44 -0500, Mara wrote:
> [Crossposting deliberately left in for this post]
>
> On Wed, 19 Apr 2006 13:41:25 -0500, JEDIDIAH <> wrote:
>
>>On 2006-04-19, <> wrote:
>>> http://www.reallylinux.com/docs/snobsoped.shtml
>>>
>>> "Linux Snobs: Real Barriers to Entry
>>> by Walter V. Koenning for the OPINION/EDITORIAL section on
>>> reallylinux.com.
>>>
>>> One particularly distraught new Linux user came to me and shared how
>>> his meeting with a number of Linux "pros" turned to a bash Windows,
>>> bash him and bash everything he said gathering. Instead of answering
>>> his question regarding which GUI they prefer to use on their systems,
>>> the response was a clear: "you ignoramous! Go back to your Windows." ""
>>>
>>>
>>> Hey that sounds just like comp.os.linux.advocacy and just about every
>>> other Linux group I have read.
>>
>> LIAR.
>>
>> This group spefically exists to keep *.advocacy noise out of
>>the other groups.
>
> The why the HELL do you posters keep crossposting this all over usenet? Do you
> ever pay the slightest bit of attention to what you're doing? Or is it that
> you're just too stupid to keep the topic where it started, or maybe that you're
> *SO* easily trolled that you just can't resist?
>
> "You just made a liar out of yourself with the above statement. I hope you
> realise that."

Oh ghod. Don't wake up hipcrime.
--
Perfection is achieved, not when there is nothing more to add,
but when there is nothing left to take away.
Antoine De Saint-Exupery

Re: The Linux Community is Killing Linux. (I Thought This Was the FAQ?)

Welcome to comp.os.linux.advocacy, otherwise known as cola. This
FAQ will try to address most of the issues regarding Linux and
this group. Unlike the other FAQs, this one will try to be as
realistic as possible. If you want the straight information from
real people, continue reading.

Here's a list of some frequently asked and answered question here
and elsewhere that you may find useful in your quest to try linux.

SECTION ONE - INSTALLATION
--------------------------

1.1 Q: I heard linux was easy to install, is it?
A: Very. Several times easier and faster than Windows.

1.2 Q: Once I get it installed, then what?
A: Then you will have a stable, secure, virus-free system.

1.3 Q: What happens if I'm in the middle of an install and the
installation freezes or just stops?
A: Quit worrying - it won't happen. If you are the nervous sort,
try a LIVECD first.

1.4 Q: What's the deal?! I installed Linux and it took up almost 2GB
hard drive space!
A: Including browsers, full Office Suite, CD/DVD burning S/W,
several excellent editors, photo-viewing S/W, games, image-editing
S/W and a host of utilities and other stuff? Amazing, isn't it?
So, everything you need, all installed within an hour, including
firewall, and only about 99% of your hard drive left?

2.2 Q: What is killall, HUP, ls, cat, rm, which, etc and why are
these programs telling me to do them? Arggg!!
A: Don't be silly - they aren't telling you to do anything.
Someday, you'll learn just what some of those are.
Meanwhile, think of them as a ping command in Windows -
if you don't know what it is, you don't need it

(more to come...)

SECTION THREE - APPLICATIONS
----------------------------

3.1 Q: Where can I get some programs to run on linux?
A: Good question. If you got SUSE, you got most of what
you'll ever need!

3.2 Q: I tried to install an RPM but I got 'failed dependencies', what
is that?
A: If you got SUSE, it probably didn't happen, did it?

3.3 Q: What is compiling and configure, make and make install? And
what is a makefile?
A: These all refer to things you can't do in Windows.
- so why are you worrying?
Someday, you'll realise just how powerful Linux is.
THEN is the time to ask.

3.4 Q: Can I go to my local store to buy any Linux applications?
A: You don't need to - if you got SUSE, just look on your CDs
(more to come...)

SECTION FOUR - SPEED ISSUES
---------------------------

4.1 Q: Why is Linux so slow?
A: It isn't. You clearly haven't installed it yet.
(more to come...)

SECTION FIVE - CONSISTENCY
--------------------------

5.1 Q: Why are the windows different looking?
A: They are as different or as same as you want them to be.

5.2 Q: Should I buy Suse Linux?
A: If you wish. It's very cheap.
Alternatively, simply download it for free (gratis) quite legally.

(more to come...)

SECTION SIX - LINUX COMMUNITY
-----------------------------

6.1 Q: What is RTFM?!
A: This is an acronym for Read The Fuc*ing Manual.

6.2 Q: Why does everyone think they are better than you when
using Linux?
A: They don't. It's simply that they (if you are a Windows user)
are a lot better off than you are - they don't have Registry
problems, don't suffer from viruses, don't need to defrag drives,
don't have systems slowing down with time.... they are just
happy people, and feel sorry for Windows users.

7.1 Q: Everyone in here says linux is perfect, why would they say that
if it isn't?
A: They don't say that. Simply that it's infinitely better than
Windows - and you are right - they wouldn't say it if it were
not true.

7.2 Q: Why does everyone call you a troll when you ask something that
questions linux?
A: They don't. It's just that they have come to recognise trolls -
like the silly one that started this thread

7.3 Q: Why does everyone <PLONK> you if you question Linux?
A: Fairly similar to above.
(more to come...)

8.1 Q: There are some people that call this FAQ lies and seem to treat
it like it's a conspiracy against them, and post all sorts of
links to anti-microsoft articles. Why are they reacting so
strongly?
A: They are just Windows users. Just make sure that *you* aren't
one of them

Guest

Re: The Linux Community is Killing Linux. (I Thought This Was the FAQ?)

B Gruff wrote:
> Welcome to comp.os.linux.advocacy, otherwise known as cola. This
> FAQ will try to address most of the issues regarding Linux and
> this group. Unlike the other FAQs, this one will try to be as
> realistic as possible. If you want the straight information from
> real people, continue reading.

Interesting.

I can't seem to find any references to your FAQ Mr. Gruff.
I do find the one listed below in various places on the net.
Now, with a childish moniker like B.Gruff, you just prove what
this FAZ, the REAL COLA FAQ, says in various places.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Welcome to comp.os.linux.advocacy, otherwise known as cola. This
FAQ will try to address most of the issues regarding Linux and
this group. Unlike the other FAQs, this one will try to be as
realistic as possible. If you want the straight information from
real people, continue reading. If you would like to be told what
you want to hear, or read a bunch of misinformation that you will
regret later as you find things don't work as they should, feel free
to read one of the other "FAQS" in here.

OK, on to the info! ADDED NEW SECTION BELOW!

Here's a list of some frequently asked and answered question here
and elsewhere that you may find useful in your quest to try linux.
Read these carefully before you decide to invest time in Linux, you
may find that you have better things you can do instead.

SECTION ONE - INSTALLATION
--------------------------

1.1 Q: I heard linux was easy to install, is it?
A: That depends on what distro you try. Most of them will have
trouble detecting all your hardware. Most new hardware devices
are not supported. If your lucky you might be able to find
something that someone threw together on the net. But that's
after spending a couple hours searching and probably won't take
advantage of your hardware to it's fullest capability.

1.2 Q: Once I get it installed, then what?
A: Then you get the joy of making sure everything is configured
right. Plan on a minimum of two hours per device to get it to
work. That's if the device is even supported.

1.3 Q: What happens if I'm in the middle of an install and the
installation freezes or just stops?
A: You get to reboot and start all over again. This happens
every so often with Linux. It seems like it's buggy install
routines or something. Ain't Linux grand?

1.4 Q: What's the deal?! I installed Linux and it took up almost 2GB
hard drive space!
A: The Linux distros usually install a LOT of never-used programs
on the default install. You can pick and choose what you want,
but good luck figuring out what programs are needed and what is
useless, obscure tools. Linux usually installs stuff like 10
different editors, 12 different mail clients, and so on.

(more to come...)

SECTION TWO - CONFIGURATION
---------------------------

2.1 Q: What's with all these cryptic files?
A: All of Linux is configured with cryptic text files. Some of
the more user-friendly distros have configuration utilities
that claim to do it for you, but success with these works
sometimes and other times don't, so sometimes you have to
edit them by hand. With Linux's spotty reliability in UI
programming, you might as well get used to it.

2.2 Q: What is killall, HUP, ls, cat, rm, which, etc and why are
these programs telling me to do them? Arggg!!
A: These are command line programs that do things within the
system. It's what makes Linux a powerful OS for those that
are experienced with it. But it's also what makes it a pain
in the arse to use and inefficient as a desktop system. Who
wants to type all the time when they can just click?!

(more to come...)

SECTION THREE - APPLICATIONS
----------------------------

3.1 Q: Where can I get some programs to run on linux?
A: Good question. Because Linux doesn't have a large user base
on the desktop,(I think it's about 0.24%, less than 1%)
companies that make software won't write their programs for
Linux. There's a lot of community created programs out there,
and some are fairly good, but those are few and far between.
Most of the Linux software that tries to mimic it's windows
counterpart is substandard. It's usually slow and buggy and
early in development.

3.2 Q: I tried to install an RPM but I got 'failed dependencies', what
is that?
A: That's Linux's version of DLL hell. Different versions and
distros use different libraries. So unlike windows where
programs will run on many different versions, Linux programs
will fail if they're not made for your specific version.

3.3 Q: What is compiling and configure, make and make install? And
what is a makefile?
A: This is a way to build the programs from the source code
under Linux. When the question above fails, you can always
build it yourself. The advantage is that it works most of
the time. The disadvantage is that it takes forever to build
large programs, you need to know some cryptic commands and
you have to do all this on a command line. Unlike Windows
where you just double click and you are done.

3.4 Q: Can I go to my local store to buy any Linux applications?
A: Not really. You can buy Linux itself at various stores. But
not too many commercial companies make applications for Linux,
there's no profit in it with 0.24% of the desktop market.

(more to come...)

SECTION FOUR - SPEED ISSUES
---------------------------

4.1 Q: Why is Linux so slow?
A: Linux is built on the technology of the old UNIX OS's. Even
the graphical user interface of Linux is a separate program that

is the same type they used back in the older UNIX days. So
working with old technology will give you the old technology
responsiveness. Also, a lot of the GUI's, although nice to look
at, are still not mature. Using them is slow and sluggish
compared to, say, Windows.

(more to come...)

SECTION FIVE - CONSISTENCY
--------------------------

5.1 Q: Why are the windows different looking?
A: Since Linux isn't built by one company, group or have any
governing body, programs and interfaces can vary dramatically.
You can have everything from the nice look of KDE, to something
as ugly as TK and everything in between. You'll usually see some

varying UI stile in Linux.

5.2 Q: Should I buy Suse Linux?
A: No. They make it difficult to get it for free. All the other
distros provide free ISO's to download. Suse is the only one
that doesn't provide them but instead has a FTP install that's
hard to get to work. Why should they make it easy? The more
people that can't get the download to work have to spend $80
or more for the boxed set. And on top of all that although
it might have a few more user friendly tools, it's still the
same base Linux system that's in development and that all the
other distros are using. In other words, they're all on about
the same level of struggling to catch up to Windows, so you're
not going to find any earth-shattering features in one compared
to another.

(more to come...)

SECTION SIX - LINUX COMMUNITY
-----------------------------

6.1 Q: What is RTFM?!
A: This is an acronym for Read The Fuc*ing Manual. This is a
common
answer you'll get when asking for help in the Linux community.
It's meant to make you feel inadequate while boating the Linux
persons ego at the same time. See, Linux enthusiasts consider
themselves to be guru like and above helping out the simple
newbie. You have to earn your respect by spending countless
hours becoming a kernel hacker before you're worthy of getting
any help.

6.2 Q: Why does everyone think they are better than you when using
Linux?
A: Same as above. When people use Linux they believe since it
takes
a little more knowledge to use Linux, they are technically
superior,
and see themselves as an elite group that doesn't have time for
the
pathetic little Windows people.

7.1 Q: Everyone in here says linux is perfect, why would they say that
if it isn't?
A: We really don't know. Maybe they've used Linux so long that
they've gotten used to it. Some of these people haven't used
Windows in years so they are comparing Linux to the last windows

they used, maybe Windows 3.1 or 95.

7.2 Q: Why does everyone call you a troll when you ask something that
questions linux?
A: Most of the people here in C.O.L.A. think of Linux more like a
religion than an OS. They mostly are MS haters and feel that
Linux is the greatest thing to ever hit computing. So when
someone questions Linux it's like questioning their belief
system. Instead of looking at it with some logic and reasonable

judgment, they will lash out at you can't claim your are a troll

or a paid MS supporter.

7.3 Q: Why does everyone <PLONK> you if you question Linux?
A: Fairly similar to above, Linux advocates can not argue their
point rationally. So to make it look like you are under them or

you are not worth it, and at the same time find an easy way out
of having to prove themselves, they will <PLONK> you.

8.1 Q: There are some people that call this FAQ lies and seem to treat
it like it's a conspiracy against them, and post all sorts of
links to anti-microsoft articles. Why are they reacting so strongly?
A: The people that are reacting so strongly are most likely the
Linux extremists that believe everything negitive that is said about
Linux comes from Microsoft. Like many cult-like groups, the people
that belong to them don't have the ability to see things rationally
or outside of their view. If someone replies to the FAQ, or
anything questioning a non-favorable view on Linux, that seems a
little
"over the edge", do a google search on the person
(http://groups.google.com/) and look at his/her posting history
then decide for yourself if the person is credible or not.

Re: The Linux Community is Killing Linux. (I Thought This Was theFAQ?)

Oh, here we go with the defacing a perfectly good FAQ...
Let's put some CORRECTIONS in, shall we?

wrote:
> +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
> + +
> + C.O.L.A. Newcomer FAQ and Primer +
> + Edition: 11 - 1/4/03 +
> + Group: comp.os.linux.advocacy +
> + +
> + Copyright (c) 2002-2005 Linux Reality Team +
> +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>
> Welcome to comp.os.linux.advocacy, otherwise known as cola. This
> FAQ will try to address most of the issues regarding Linux and
> this group. Unlike the other FAQs, this one will try to be as
> realistic as possible. If you want the straight information from
> real people, continue reading. If you would like to be told what
> you want to hear, or read a bunch of misinformation that you will
> regret later as you find things don't work as they should, feel free
> to read one of the other "FAQS" in here.
>
> OK, on to the info! ADDED NEW SECTION BELOW!
>
> Here's a list of some frequently asked and answered question here
> and elsewhere that you may find useful in your quest to try linux.
> Read these carefully before you decide to invest time in Linux, you
> may find that you have better things you can do instead.
>
> SECTION ONE - INSTALLATION
> --------------------------
>
> 1.1 Q: I heard linux was easy to install, is it?
> A: That depends on what distro you try. Most of them will have
> trouble detecting all your hardware. Most new hardware devices
> are not supported.

WRONG!
With the NVidia Linux drivers, I was able to get a 4500GTX up and
running under SuSE 10 with full 3D support, and with very little effort.
TODAY.

If your lucky you might be able to find
> something that someone threw together on the net. But that's
> after spending a couple hours searching and probably won't take
> advantage of your hardware to it's fullest capability.
>

WRONG!
OK, there are a few devices that you need to hunt for. But the same is
true for Windows.
For instance, try finding a touchscreen driver for XPSP2 on a Panasonic
Toughbook CF-M34GPRS2. Or a NON-SONY NetMD MSD driver for Windows. Two
to get you going there. Here's something to make you cry: both devices
are easily configurable under Linux.
> 1.2 Q: Once I get it installed, then what?
> A: Then you get the joy of making sure everything is configured
> right. Plan on a minimum of two hours per device to get it to
> work. That's if the device is even supported.
>

WRONG!
As demonstrated above.
> 1.3 Q: What happens if I'm in the middle of an install and the
> installation freezes or just stops?
> A: You get to reboot and start all over again. This happens
> every so often with Linux. It seems like it's buggy install
> routines or something. Ain't Linux grand?
>

THE SAME IS TRUE OF WINDOWS!
And you're a klutz if you run install off of your master CD. ALWAYS use
a disposable copy. Said disposable copy may have burn errors. Such
errors will usually manifest themselves as missing files, unreadable
discs, etc. Live with it.
> 1.4 Q: What's the deal?! I installed Linux and it took up almost 2GB
> hard drive space!
> A: The Linux distros usually install a LOT of never-used programs
> on the default install. You can pick and choose what you want,
> but good luck figuring out what programs are needed and what is
> useless, obscure tools. Linux usually installs stuff like 10
> different editors, 12 different mail clients, and so on.
>

And how much nonsoftware bloat does Windows install?
By the time you've got SP2 on there, you're talking well over a Gig. AND
YOU'VE NOT EVEN STARTED PUTTING APP SOFTWARE ON YET!
> (more to come...)
>
> SECTION TWO - CONFIGURATION
> ---------------------------
>
> 2.1 Q: What's with all these cryptic files?
> A: All of Linux is configured with cryptic text files. Some of
> the more user-friendly distros have configuration utilities
> that claim to do it for you, but success with these works
> sometimes and other times don't, so sometimes you have to
> edit them by hand. With Linux's spotty reliability in UI
> programming, you might as well get used to it.
>

Just like the Windows Registry, eh?
> 2.2 Q: What is killall, HUP, ls, cat, rm, which, etc and why are
> these programs telling me to do them? Arggg!!
> A: These are command line programs that do things within the
> system. It's what makes Linux a powerful OS for those that
> are experienced with it. But it's also what makes it a pain
> in the arse to use and inefficient as a desktop system. Who
> wants to type all the time when they can just click?!
>

that's what X frameservers (GUIs to you) are for, dumbass.
Apart from that, you get more control over a process through the command
line. With VERY few exceptions.
> (more to come...)
>
> SECTION THREE - APPLICATIONS
> ----------------------------
>
> 3.1 Q: Where can I get some programs to run on linux?
> A: Good question. Because Linux doesn't have a large user base
> on the desktop,

codswallop.

(I think it's about 0.24%, less than 1%)
> companies that make software won't write their programs for
> Linux.

not a problem, that's what Cedega is for.

There's a lot of community created programs out there,

Don't forget the THOUSANDS of commercial packages!
> and some are fairly good, but those are few and far between.
> Most of the Linux software that tries to mimic it's windows
> counterpart is substandard. It's usually slow and buggy and
> early in development.
>

Bollocks. The last thing Linux is intended for is to IMITATE Windows in
any shape or form. Linux is Linux. Linux is for people who want to USE
their computers. Windows is for people who want to be USED BY their
computers.
> 3.2 Q: I tried to install an RPM but I got 'failed dependencies', what
> is that?
> A: That's Linux's version of DLL hell.

Waitaminute. You mean that thing they patched yonks ago with that
autodependency checking and resolution thing?

Different versions and
> distros use different libraries. So unlike windows where
> programs will run on many different versions, Linux programs
> will fail if they're not made for your specific version.
>

WRONG.
> 3.3 Q: What is compiling and configure, make and make install? And
> what is a makefile?
> A: This is a way to build the programs from the source code
> under Linux.

IF you're a developer or just someone with specialised requirements of
his software, or you just want to optimise the software for your
hardware. Funny how the Redmond offering doesn't give anything like
this, isn't it?

When the question above fails, you can always
> build it yourself. The advantage is that it works most of
> the time. The disadvantage is that it takes forever to build
> large programs,

depends on the hardware. You're so used to running MS-Windows you expect
things to take a long time. With Linux you can stop the frameserver and
compile from the command line. This means the entire system is dedicated
to compiling -> faster compile. You do the math.

you need to know some cryptic commands and
> you have to do all this on a command line. Unlike Windows
> where you just double click and you are done.
>

Or even just visit a website and let the system install all that
wonderful porn diallage for you, invisibly, without even asking you
first! OOH! This is FANTASTIC!
> 3.4 Q: Can I go to my local store to buy any Linux applications?
> A: Not really. You can buy Linux itself at various stores. But
> not too many commercial companies make applications for Linux,
> there's no profit in it with 0.24% of the desktop market.
>

stop pulling these bullshit numbers out of your arse. OSS is made viable
via SUPPORT. Get rid of that boxed-up, outdated and frankly DEAD
business model you seem to be stuck in.
> (more to come...)
>
> SECTION FOUR - SPEED ISSUES
> ---------------------------
>
> 4.1 Q: Why is Linux so slow?
> A: Linux is built on the technology of the old UNIX OS's.

erm... so is NT.

Even
> the graphical user interface of Linux is a separate program that
> is the same type they used back in the older UNIX days.

erm... so is the XP GUI.

So
> working with old technology will give you the old technology
> responsiveness.

wrong. Particularly given that same said old software technology would
run proportionately faster on the newer hardware. Ever seen a 3GHz XT in
action? Try running FractINT (Stone Soup Group, google for it) in a pure
DOS environment on a 3.06 p4. It'll blow your mind. That software core
is EIGHTEEN YEARS OLD. It was developed on 80386's!

Also, a lot of the GUI's, although nice to look
> at, are still not mature. Using them is slow and sluggish
> compared to, say, Windows.
>

scuse me while I kiss the sky... oh, wait, I'm not on the same shit
you're on. Giz some!
> (more to come...)
>
> SECTION FIVE - CONSISTENCY
> --------------------------
>
> 5.1 Q: Why are the windows different looking?
> A: Since Linux isn't built by one company, group or have any
> governing body, programs and interfaces can vary dramatically.
> You can have everything from the nice look of KDE, to something
> as ugly as TK and everything in between. You'll usually see some
> varying UI stile in Linux.
>

It's about choice and utility. Some hardware can't handle KDE because of
the hardware requirements. Some people run IceWM on dual HT Xeons
because they want maximum performance but they also want a GUI. Fair
dues to them, it's their CHOICE.
> 5.2 Q: Should I buy Suse Linux?
> A: No. They make it difficult to get it for free.

No they don't. I not only downloaded it not two days ago, I also
obtained a computer magazine with a copy of the DVD on the front cover.

All the other
> distros provide free ISO's to download. Suse is the only one
> that doesn't provide them but instead has a FTP install that's
> hard to get to work.

Read above.

Why should they make it easy? The more
> people that can't get the download to work have to spend $80
> or more for the boxed set. And on top of all that although
> it might have a few more user friendly tools, it's still the
> same base Linux system that's in development and that all the
> other distros are using.

Yeah? And?

In other words, they're all on about
> the same level of struggling to catch up to Windows,

Oh, you mean the GUI that's only JUST "innovated" multiple desktops
(still Alpha), that's only JUST "innovated" transparent windows and
menus (STILL Alpha)?

I'm gonna just go kiss the sky again...

so you're
> not going to find any earth-shattering features in one compared
> to another.
>
> (more to come...)
>
> SECTION SIX - LINUX COMMUNITY
> -----------------------------
>
> 6.1 Q: What is RTFM?!
> A: This is an acronym for Read The Fuc*ing Manual. This is a
> common
> answer you'll get when asking for help in the Linux community.
> It's meant to make you feel inadequate

No, it's made to make you do some fucking work instead of bleating like
some newbie Windows user who's lost his fucking talking paper clip.

while boating the Linux
> persons ego at the same time. See, Linux enthusiasts consider
> themselves to be guru like and above helping out the simple
> newbie. You have to earn your respect by spending countless
> hours becoming a kernel hacker before you're worthy of getting
> any help.
>

No.
Says in the Bible somewhere, God helps he who helps himself. As far as a
newcomer to Linux is concerned, experienced users are God. We're not
going to handhold you through every fucking thing. That's what the
manuals are for. If you read the manuals, you'll usually find the answer
you're looking for. IF you don't find the answer you're looking for,
THEN you come to a Guru and ask. Stupid questions are those which are
answered in the manuals, and will open you WIDE to ridicule, and
deservedly so.
> 6.2 Q: Why does everyone think they are better than you when using
> Linux?

Because it involves more than wanking off a piece of plastic with a
wheel in its back?
> A: Same as above. When people use Linux they believe since it
> takes
> a little more knowledge to use Linux, they are technically
> superior,
> and see themselves as an elite group that doesn't have time for
> the
> pathetic little Windows people.
>

I never claimed it was perfect.
> A: We really don't know. Maybe they've used Linux so long that
> they've gotten used to it. Some of these people haven't used
> Windows in years so they are comparing Linux to the last windows
> they used, maybe Windows 3.1 or 95.
>

I use both. I also use MAC OS. I prefer Linux because it gives me more
control over my own computer, it's faster and more responsive, and a
darn sight more stable and forgiving of faulty hardware.
> 7.2 Q: Why does everyone call you a troll when you ask something that
> questions linux?

because the tag fits, in most cases.
> A: Most of the people here in C.O.L.A. think of Linux more like a
> religion than an OS. They mostly are MS haters and feel that
> Linux is the greatest thing to ever hit computing. So when
> someone questions Linux it's like questioning their belief
> system. Instead of looking at it with some logic and reasonable
> judgment, they will lash out at you can't claim your are a troll
> or a paid MS supporter.
>
> 7.3 Q: Why does everyone <PLONK> you if you question Linux?
> A: Fairly similar to above, Linux advocates can not argue their
> point rationally. So to make it look like you are under them or
> you are not worth it, and at the same time find an easy way out
> of having to prove themselves, they will <PLONK> you.
>
> (more to come...)
>
> SECTION EIGHT - LINUX EVANGELISM, ZEALOTS
> -----------------------------------------
> -----------------------------------------
>
> 8.1 Q: There are some people that call this FAQ lies and seem to treat
> it like it's a conspiracy against them, and post all sorts of
> links
> to
> anti-microsoft articles. Why are they reacting so strongly?
> A: The people that are reacting so strongly are most likely the
> Linux
> extremists that believe everything negitive that is said about
> Linux
> comes from Microsoft.
Like many cult-like groups, the people
> that
> belong to them don't have the ability to see things rationally
> or
> outside of their view. If someone replies to the FAQ, or
> anything
> questioning a non-favorable view on Linux, that seems a little
> "over the edge", do a google search on the person
> (http://groups.google.com/) and look at his/her posting history
> then
> decide for yourself if the person is credible or not.
>

As at tonight, all of FIVE messages, all crossposted.
> (more to come...)
>
>
> lesbian Hitler wrote:
>
>>On Wed, 19 Apr 2006 10:49:53 +0000, susan.fahgin wrote:
>>
>>
>>>http://www.reallylinux.com/docs/snobsoped.shtml
>>>
>>>"Linux Snobs: Real Barriers to Entry
>>>by Walter V. Koenning for the OPINION/EDITORIAL section on
>>>reallylinux.com.
>>>
>>>One particularly distraught new Linux user came to me and shared how his
>>>meeting with a number of Linux "pros" turned to a bash Windows, bash him
>>>and bash everything he said gathering. Instead of answering his question
>>>regarding which GUI they prefer to use on their systems, the response was
>>>a clear: "you ignoramous! Go back to your Windows." ""
>>>
>>>
>>>Hey that sounds just like comp.os.linux.advocacy and just about every
>>>other Linux group I have read.
>>>It's no wonder Linux is going down the drain faster than yesterday's
>>>sushi.
>>>The group comp.os.linux.advocacy should be renamed to "Microsoft.bashing"
>>>
>>>At some point the Linux high and mighty will figure out that they need to
>>>come down from the mountain to meet the masses, but at that point there
>>>won't be any masses left.
>>
>>The official linux FAQ:
>>
>>Q: How do I install Linux?
>>
>>A: RTFM dumbass
>>

Same as you would Windows. Insert CD, read manual, follow onscreen
instructions.
If that is beyond you, take it to someone who knows what they're doing.
>>Q: What programs can I run on Linux?
>>
>>A: RTFM dumbass
>>

what do you /want/ to run?
>>Q: Is Linux suitable for desktop use in my office?
>>
>>A: RTFM dumbass
>>

what do you /want/ run run?
>>Q: Can I run games on Linux?
>>
>>A: RTFM dumbass
>>

what games do you /want/ to play?
>>Q: Is Linux secure?
>>
>>A: RTFM dumbass
>>

it's as secure as you make it. Debian Desktop with Apache with all the
plugins under the sun installed does not a secure system make. There
again, neither does a default install of Win2k Pro with IIS, Exchange
Server and Telnet.
>>Q: Is Linux user friendly?
>>
>>A: RTFM dumbass
>>

Depends on a lot of things. For two, which distribution you choose and
for what activities you're going to be putting the box through.
>>Q: So what do I get for the money?
>>
>>A: What you pay for, ultimately.
>
>

with OSS and GNU/Linux in particular, the money you save you can spend
elsewhere. Like, for instance, that dream holiday. Or a downpayment on
that car. Or that mortage you want to ditch early. Linux gets you
happiness, in other words. It got me happiness, anyway. YMMV.

On 2006-04-19, Mara <> wrote:
> [Crossposting deliberately left in for this post]

But I took it out for this one.
> On Wed, 19 Apr 2006 13:41:25 -0500, JEDIDIAH <> wrote:
>>On 2006-04-19, <> wrote:
>>> http://www.reallylinux.com/docs/snobsoped.shtml
[snip of blah blah]
>>> Hey that sounds just like comp.os.linux.advocacy and just about every
>>> other Linux group I have read.
>>
>> LIAR.
>>
>> This group spefically exists to keep *.advocacy noise out of
>>the other groups.
>
> The why the HELL do you posters keep crossposting this all over usenet? Do you
> ever pay the slightest bit of attention to what you're doing? Or is it that
> you're just too stupid to keep the topic where it started, or maybe that you're
> *SO* easily trolled that you just can't resist?

I honestly think that they're not paying attention to what group they are
posting to. No matter what side of the troll bait they're on, it looks to
me like most of this thread's posters think USENET is just one thing...like
a single big 'forum' on some web site.
> "You just made a liar out of yourself with the above statement. I hope you
> realise that."

[chuckle] One would think that the person making that statement would pay
attention to cross-posting, follow-up settings.

--
'Maybe we're all back in school after spring break and this is recess in the
modern technology-intensive middle school'

Jimchip wrote:
> On 2006-04-19, Mara <> wrote:
>> [Crossposting deliberately left in for this post]
>
> But I took it out for this one.
>
>> On Wed, 19 Apr 2006 13:41:25 -0500, JEDIDIAH <> wrote:
>>>On 2006-04-19, <> wrote:
>>>> http://www.reallylinux.com/docs/snobsoped.shtml
> [snip of blah blah]
>>>> Hey that sounds just like comp.os.linux.advocacy and just about every
>>>> other Linux group I have read.
>>>
>>> LIAR.
>>>
>>> This group spefically exists to keep *.advocacy noise out of
>>>the other groups.
>>
>> The why the HELL do you posters keep crossposting this all over usenet?
>> Do you ever pay the slightest bit of attention to what you're doing? Or
>> is it that you're just too stupid to keep the topic where it started, or
>> maybe that you're *SO* easily trolled that you just can't resist?
>
> I honestly think that they're not paying attention to what group they are
> posting to. No matter what side of the troll bait they're on, it looks to
> me like most of this thread's posters think USENET is just one
> thing...like a single big 'forum' on some web site.

Re: The Linux Community is Killing Linux. (I Thought This Was theFAQ?)

Jim wrote:
> Bollocks. The last thing Linux is intended for is to IMITATE Windows in
> any shape or form. Linux is Linux. Linux is for people who want to USE
> their computers. Windows is for people who want to be USED BY their
> computers.
>
No, windoze is for peepul who R T F stupid to use a computah.

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