Would you like Kroos back at Bayern?

JANCKER wrote:The player who didn't want to play for the best manager ever but chose to play for the old fart Ancelotti instead... inexplicable.

LOL best manager.. we can see what best manager done at bayern, we could see his decisions at City . The way Kross controls Real midfield is incredible. Until we get a similar player for next 3 years lets run on our toes;)

Jorge wrote:but while at Bayern kroos never had problems with any player or staff, while Pep had players and staff turned against him in such a way that some even quit Bayern after long years of service because they could not work him one more day.

Is that before or after he threw his gloves because he got subbed out? I still remember Guardiola talking about it on the press conference and Schweinsteiger laughing at him and mimicking on the bench. His behavior off the pitch towards fans was lamentable. I experienced it myself and this was early 2013, under Heynckes, playing as an advanced playmaker.

The day that Kroos threw his gloves when subbed ( a game vs Nürnberg) was the day he was informed by his agent that Bayern had stopped the contract negotiation indefinitely. It was out of frustration because Kroos wanted to stay. He said so in an interview with TDP in Spain. When you say: "His behavior off the pitch towards fans was lamentable" I have no clue about what you are saying: I can't remember any of that reported at the time or ever brought up by anyone.How throwing the gloves after being subbed qualifies as having problems with players and staff is beyond any reasonable explanation that I can think of, unless that you are referring to the team's glove supplier being the relatives of Philip Lahm or something .

Last edited by Jorge on Sun Jun 04, 2017 5:10 am, edited 2 times in total.

tflags wrote: Now if you don't mind, and excusing my childish behavior as you have mentioned, would you please explain why is it that he's on his route to become the best German player? specifically better than Beckenbauer (to use just one player I asked about before.)

I sort of got the feeling you were trying to avoid having to explain that assertion. Might have gotten the wrong impression.

I never said that Kroos was "on his route to become the best German player", you, yourself quoted my text that says something completely different:

Jorge wrote:I just would like to highlight how Toni Kroos at 27 years of age is on track to become the most successful German player ever, we Bayern fans feel proud that he was brought up as a footballer through our youth program.

Success in football is measured by trophies, there are two trophies that are the most cherished and hard to win: The World Cup and the Champions League. As today no German player has won more Champion Leagues and World Cups than Toni Kroos, not even Beckenbauer who is tied and achieved this milestone at an older age. It is realistic to think that Toni Kroos has a clear shot at wining either another World Cup or another Champions League before he retires. The other title missing from Kroos' resume is the UEFA Euro Cup title but it is not as prestigious and an additional WC or CL will make it unnecessary in the comparison.

Before you bring it up, League titles and Domestic Cup titles are also important but more common to achieve, even in that category Kroos is on a clear path to surpass the best German Footballer of all times, my childhood hero, the reason why I started following Bayern and Germany and the person after I named my son: The Great Franz Beckenbauer. This does not mean by any stretch that Toni is better than Franz. You need to breathe and relax kid because you start overreacting to what you read and all of the sudden you are unleashed and all over the place.

Now, based on what Franz Beckenbauer means to me as an all time Bayern and Germany fan and what I wrote, not what you invented, explain how this is not childish:

tflags wrote:

Jorge wrote:is on track to become the most successful German player ever

. Yeah, f*ck Franz. The loser.

Last edited by Jorge on Sun Jun 04, 2017 5:34 am, edited 3 times in total.

JANCKER wrote:The player who didn't want to play for the best manager ever but chose to play for the old fart Ancelotti instead... inexplicable.

Lol wat. Kroos liked Pep, Pep liked Kroos. Dunno where you ever got the idea that he moved to Madrid because he wanted to play with Ancelotti rather than Pep. You're trying too hard with this stuff.

But but but... players go to City only because of Pep, not because of money. You're trying harder. Couldn't convince even a German player to stay in a German club, says enough about his supposed draw.

The two are not mutually exclusive.

Kroos did not leave because he didn't want to play with Pep. He didn't leave because he wanted to play for Ancelotti. Kroos literally said he wished to stay at Bayern but the club wouldn't pay him what he felt he was worth. It's indisputable fact that Kroos left because he was feeling underpaid, not because of anything to do with Pep or Ancelotti. You can hate Pep all you want, whatever, but you can't deny that many, many players would love to play with him. Of all the things you could possibly complain about Pep for, his ability to attract top players is towards the bottom of the list. You gotta come up with something better than this junk.

He never gave Bayern the effort or production he's given RM. Good for him, but people need to stop looking at the past with rose colored glasses. He was at best a third option, and at worst the 5th option on any given day.

His production and impact with his main competition (Muller) was significantly less for 2 straight years leading to his departure.

We had the "wonder kid" Gotze who the club valued very highly. Who also just scored the game winner in the WC final. Yes he sucked and always under performed (except in ice cream eating), but in 2014 the clubs hopes were very high on him.

Thiago was just bought because Pep really wanted him. Sure the club said it was their decision all along, but seriously? Thiago came in for and because of Pep. And Pep was going to make sure he got his minutes to develope/perform.

Basti had just come off a great run in 2012/2013 pairing with BOTH Javi and Tymo, then had a good 13/14, and a warriors performance in the WC final as well. He was set to be NT captain through the 2016 Euros so the club didn't think for a second his form would drop the way that it did.

They tried ALL season to work out contract talks with Kroos and it never went anywhere. Sure looking at it now they should have swallowed their damn pride and just matched miller's pay or something, but given the squad we had in 13/14 and what the plans were at the time Kroos was fully expendable, and his attitude had severely deteriorated due to the contract talks.

There was NO way for the club to forsee all of the following to occur:

... Muller having 1 down season this year, 2 full seasons after the deal. 14/15 and 15/16 Muller was still his superior.

... Gotze never coming around and having to be sold, only to discover he has a pretty serious condition that helped hinder his abilities.

... Thiago's injury that sidelined him virtually the entire 14/15 season, which potentially wrecked his development.

... Basti's form falling off a cliff in 14/15 and making it impossible to guarantee him a starting role anymore with Vidal, Alonso, and Thiago in the middle as well. All of whom Pep thought of highly.

Sure some don't rate Thiago, but he's been great coming off the injury in 2014 imo and even before we went down a man BOTH times he was better than Kroos head to head this year IMO.

Kroos has benefitted massively from playing behind the Balloon door winner, and Co., and at the same time being in front of 2 of the top/best wing backs around. At RM he isn't even their best CM, and yesterday had 1, and only 1 good run to keep the ball 20+ seconds before the first goal where he dumped the ball forward before almost losing it. After that he was nothing but side pass Kroos again. His entire game is built around being surrounded by world class players at every position and distributing the ball to them so they can be WC. Isco was the only player on the field less involved with RM's win than Kroos imo, but because he's landed in the best team as the second best CM on the team so many are acting like he'd be the master key for our squad. Maybe he would have been this year, but 14/15 he would have been hard pressed to see a lot of time, and would have needed to be lights out in 15/16 which even at RM he really wasn't even as they were winning the CL.

It's a crap shoot, but after 14/15 really the only complaints by people who aren't just fans of him were the price we sold him for, and the thought of "it would have been nice to have the extra depth" due to our injuries situation. After 15/16, people were jealous he was on the CL winning team, but again he wasn't great for RM he was a but player with his only ability being holding on to the ball, and wasn't lighting the world on fire. 16/17 he again never did anything massively social for RM other than just not sacking, and even required the help of Bayern losing a man, twice, in order to show any form of class. He was a ghost until those moments vs us.

Real doesn't with the CL the past 2 years and almost no one is saying selling Kroos was the clubs biggest mistake the past 10+ years. And ultimately it's up to each individual fan/person how much of those trophies are due to Kroos' impact for RM, and quite honestly he hasn't been this end all be all player for RM. He's just been in the right place at the right time. He has a top 3 front to give the ball to who makes most of their own shots, a WC cm beside him, a top 5 defense behind him to side pass/release to, and one he'll of a GK shoring up that D.

He's been a competent role player at best. And Bayern's only failure was not having a crystal ball to see the two years worth of injuries and failures of other players

FishBowl great post... exactly how i feel about Toni as well. Playing for Real Madrid tends to inflate player's worth big time. Especially in Deutschland, German RM players get the coverage that all other German players wish they could receive. Remember world-beaters Ozil and Khedira? Not that they weren't good players, but at RM their value was inflated.

One last thing... he didn't earn the name Querpass Toni for nothing...

ramsej84 wrote:But the team in which he plays is a favorite with the refs and uefa.

And what this has to do with Kroos? Are you proposing that he refuses to play until the refs are fair?

ramsej84 wrote:2013 he was not a protagonist....

Kroos was an important player in our 2012-13 campaign: In the Group stage he scored the winner after a 10 performance in Valencia and had a massive game also away at Lille. In KO stage he put a 10+ performance in London vs Arsenal before he got injured vs Juventus in the QF.

ramsej84 wrote:2014 he only played against the Brazilian boys

If this is a matter of personal opinion you are entitled to such, like all who casted the votes for Messi as "Player of the Tournament", but objectively Kroos performed outstandingly throughout the tournament scoring the highest on the Castrol Performance Index with 9.79:

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