Below, at left, are my Natural Maples just prior to tear down for a thorough recondition, which will be complete in a couple of weeks.
12, 13, 14, 16 & 22 six ply shells...............

Here is a Kit I picked up a few weeks ago, which will get reconditioned shortly after I finish the Naturals.
1971 date stamped Blue Oyster Pearl Big Beat - 12, 13, 16 & 22 three ply shells w/re-rings.................

LVDC, what are you going to do with those kits? They don't look bad the way they are.

They will have all the parts stripped off and thoroughly cleaned & polished, which, in my humble opinion, should be done at least once every 20 years, or thereabouts.

The Blue Oyster Pearl Kit was so filthy when I brought it home I had to wash it before I would even think about putting it in cases. The photo I posted earlier shows it shortly after wiping it down with warm water.

Here is the Downbeat Bass after getting all the parts off of it. If you compare it to the finished photos above you will see that the Sparkling Red Pearl Wrap didn't have much of a sparkle when I got it. Also, you will see the outlines of the Lugs & Hardware on the shot below, which all old Kits look like when you get them stripped down. This is not dust but a crusty, crud, that is next to impossible to remove without removing the Lugs, etc......................

Here is another quick example, the Badge on the Natural 16 last night prior to working the shell.
Note "dirty" grommet.....................

Here is the Badge after, but with only one coat of wax, it will get cleaner as each coat of wax is applied & removed.
The flash doesn't do it justice, it's a nice shiney Brass now....................

One last example. Here are the 16 Floor Tom Parts shortly after removing them....................

Here are the parts for the 14" Tom after cleaning, which were far worse than the 16's...........

LVDC

__________________There can be an awful fine line between a rut & a groove............

They will have all the parts stripped off and thoroughly cleaned & polished, which, in my humble opinion, should be done at least once every 20 years, or thereabouts.

The Blue Oyster Pearl Kit was so filthy when I brought it home I had to wash it before I would even think about putting it in cases. The photo I posted earlier shows it shortly after wiping it down with warm water.

Here is the Downbeat Bass after getting all the parts off of it. If you compare it to the finished photos above you will see that the Sparkling Red Pearl Wrap didn't have much of a sparkle when I got it. Also, you will see the outlines of the Lugs & Hardware on the shot below, which all old Kits look like when you get them stripped down. This is not dust but a crusty, crud, that is next to impossible to remove without removing the Lugs, etc......................

More to Come / In Progress

Tell me, how do you bring back the luster to a vintage kit? I'm been meaning to tear mine apart and give it a good cleaning, I know how to clean the hardware, but what about the finish itself? If you have some tips I'd like to hear them.

LVDC, For the red sparkle Ludwigs, is that a 8x12 tom? If so, how do YOU tune them? I'm having trouble with my 8x12...

I have never had a problem with an 8 x 12, finding them the easiest to tune. When I have had a problem I traced it to either the head or rim and when the offending party was swapped out the problem went away..................

Keep in mind that on every Drum there is probably a "magic key-rod." If you are turning one that doesn't seem to be doing much try tapping in front of the key-rod (nodal point) on the opposite side of the Drum while turning the one "in doubt" to see what is going on over there. Sometimes you will be turning one and the other side is where the effect will take place. Once you figure this out you can deal with it...............

LVDC

__________________There can be an awful fine line between a rut & a groove............

Tell me, how do you bring back the luster to a vintage kit? I'm been meaning to tear mine apart and give it a good cleaning, I know how to clean the hardware, but what about the finish itself? If you have some tips I'd like to hear them.

Wow, I've already hijacked this thread enough and have to get the Lugs & Swivel Nuts on the 16 done tonight so I'm out of time....................

LVDC

__________________There can be an awful fine line between a rut & a groove............

I have never had a problem with an 8 x 12, finding them the easiest to tune. When I have had a problem I traced it to either the head or rim and when the offending party was swapped out the problem went away..................

Keep in mind that on every Drum there is probably a "magic key-rod." If you are turning one that doesn't seem to be doing much try tapping in front of the key-rod (nodal point) on the opposite side of the Drum while turning the one "in doubt" to see what is going on over there. Sometimes you will be turning one and the other side is where the effect is. Once you figure this out you can deal with it...............

I use, for all my polishing needs, the Liquid version of Flitz Metal Polish, which contains no Ammonia, Abrasives or Acids. I've found that the Liquid version, as opposed to the Paste, is much easier to control due to the fact that it soaks into my applicator rather quickly and doesn't lay on there like the Paste does, which tends to get squished where you don't want it. I do use the Paste on Rims since it is a little "stronger" and it matters not where it ends up on those parts.................

Flitz is safe for most metals, plastic, fiberglass, plexiglass & paint and I have used it safely on many types of metals as well as all the other materials I just mentioned..........

It's the cheapest place around and they ship quick. You should get 10% off if ordering for the first time and also be prompted with an offer to buy some Micro Fiber Polishing Cloths during checkout, which I highly recommend doing since they are awesome for use when doing the final polishing..................

After the Flitz I follow up with Meguire's Cleaner Wax, usually 7 to 10 thin coats on shells, which may seem like overkill but the extra coats do make a BIG difference. When working the Lugs etc for the Downbeat Bass I kept adding coat after coat on the Shell going past my normal, at that time, 4 coats. When I removed the sixth coat I could still feel the "roughness" of the wrap but when removing the seventh it was as smooth as the best clear coat around so I slapped two more coats on and called it good...........................

The Meguire's can be found at most Auto Supply Stores, or anyplace that has a decent supply of Auto Care products. It is actually only one part of a multi step process designed by Meguire's but when checking the "other steps" I found that they didn't seem safe for Drum applications so I only use the Cleaner Wax................

LVDC

__________________There can be an awful fine line between a rut & a groove............

I use, for all my polishing needs, the Liquid version of Flitz Metal Polish, which contains no Ammonia, Abrasives or Acids. I've found that the Liquid version, as opposed to the Paste, is much easier to control due to the fact that it soaks into my applicator rather quickly and doesn't lay on there like the Paste does, which tends to get squished where you don't want it. I do use the Paste on Rims since it is a little "stronger" and it matters not where it ends up on those parts.................

Flitz is safe for most metals, plastic, fiberglass, plexiglass & paint and I have used it safely on many types of metals as well as all the other materials I just mentioned..........

It's the cheapest place around and they ship quick. You should get 10% off if ordering for the first time and also be prompted with an offer to buy some Micro Fiber Polishing Cloths during checkout, which I highly recommend doing since they are awesome for use when doing the final polishing..................

After the Flitz I follow up with Meguire's Cleaner Wax, usually 7 to 10 thin coats on shells, which may seem like overkill but the extra coats do make a BIG difference. When working the Lugs etc for the Downbeat Bass I kept adding coat after coat on the Shell going past my normal, at that time, 4 coats. When I removed the sixth coat I could still feel the "roughness" of the wrap but when removing the seventh it was as smooth as the best clear coat around so I slapped two more coats on and called it good...........................

The Meguire's can be found at most Auto Supply Stores, or anyplace that has a decent supply of Auto Care products. It is actually only one part of a multi step process designed by Meguire's but when checking the "other steps" I found that they didn't seem safe for Drum applications so I only use the Cleaner Wax................

LVDC

When you apply the wax does it give these drums a nice shine or is it just to protect it? I love that blue oyster kit you have, I had one just like it a few years ago.

SmoothJazz, with few exceptions, like their lower end Outfits, all Kits were available in Ludwig's Pearl Finishes, most with a choice between Lacquer or Pearl................

Here is the Club Date as shown in the 1961-62 Catalog that illustrates this.
Look down at the bottom left hand corner for choice of Finish and price difference..............

Below is the Club Date in the 1966-67 Catalog with the Sparkling Red Pearl Finish, which just as easily could have been WMP......

SmoothJazz, given your name, here is one of those exceptions that you might find interesting that doesn't follow the rule of "low end" Kit.
It's the Jazzette, as shown in the 1966-67 Catalog with a clear Mahogany Lacquer Finish.................

Note that in the 1966-67 desc below that the Jazzette was also available in Clear Maple or "Plain" Lacquer Finish...............

LVDC

__________________There can be an awful fine line between a rut & a groove............

After the Flitz I follow up with Meguire's Cleaner Wax, usually 7 to 10 thin coats on shells, which may seem like overkill but the extra coats do make a BIG difference. When working the Lugs etc for the Downbeat Bass I kept adding coat after coat on the Shell going past my normal, at that time, 4 coats. When I removed the sixth coat I could still feel the "roughness" of the wrap but when removing the seventh it was as smooth as the best clear coat around so I slapped two more coats on and called it good...........................LVDC

Latz, shipping AND polish!?!? Wow, that Monster you have there is definitely a two quart job...................

Really it wouldn't be any more work than the two back to back Stainless Kit's I did, right down to the Lug Cup Washers, Flitzed & two coats of waxed each of those little buggers. If you figure that each Lug has two Cup Washers apiece, well, you get the picture......................

When I finished up with these two, the one in the front used to belong to Matt Chamberlain, I jumped on my Downbeat.
And the Hits just keep rollin' in...............

In addition to Kits & Snares I spent the first three months of this year working, primarily, Vintage Hardware, Stands, Pedals etc.........................

While this Gig is time consuming it sure is a good way to learn alot about this "stuff"

LVDC

__________________There can be an awful fine line between a rut & a groove............

SmoothJazz, with few exceptions, like their lower end Outfits, all Kits were available in Ludwig's Pearl Finishes, most with a choice between Lacquer or Pearl................

Here is the Club Date as shown in the 1961-62 Catalog that illustrates this.
Look down at the bottom left hand corner for choice of Finish and price difference..............

Below is the Club Date in the 1966-67 Catalog with the Sparkling Red Pearl Finish, which just as easily could have been WMP......

SmoothJazz, given your name, here is one of those exceptions that you might find interesting that doesn't follow the rule of "low end" Kit.
It's the Jazzette, as shown in the 1966-67 Catalog with a clear Mahogany Lacquer Finish.................

Note that in the 1966-67 desc below that the Jazzette was also available in Clear Maple or "Plain" Lacquer Finish...............

LVDC

Alright, one more question and out of your hair for good. with the exception of the first outfit pictured down to except the floor tom, The Club Date never came standard with a 22" 13" 16." It always came with a little bit different sizes compared to the Superclassic right (Which mainly came 22 13 16 I assume.)

Because I haven't seen the set I am getting yet, I think after you answer this I can be sure that I know that I am getting the Superclassic when I go down to Jersey to pick it up. I haven't seen any pictures of it so I can't judge by the lugs, so this is what I gotta go by.

Also wow, what good times, a Supraphonic snare drum came standard on a low end kit, and Formula 602 cymbals, some of the best ever made (worth like 600 a piece now), 4 of them for $140! Quite amazing how much prices have inflated since then.

The Club Date never came standard with a 22" 13" 16." It always came with a little bit different sizes compared to the Superclassic right (Which mainly came 22 13 16 I assume.)

SmoothJazz, as far as I know the Club Date always came stock with different sizes than the SuperClaccic Outfit, about as close as the Club Date came to the SC was it's earliest version, which is contained in the 1961-62 info I already posted. By the 1963-64 Catalog it has been "tweaked" and the Jazz Fest (8 Lug) Snare swapped out with the lesser priced Pioneer (6 Lug.)

In 1966-67 it still had it's "tweaked" sizes but they switched up on the Snare again, using the Acrolite as stock.

Here are the 1966-67 specifications showing the "tweaked" sizes that it sported from 1963-64 on...............................

SmoothJazz, as far as I know the Club Date always came stock with different sizes than the SuperClaccic Outfit, about as close as the Club Date came to the SC was it's earliest version, which is contained in the 1961-62 info I already posted. By the 1963-64 Catalog it has been "tweaked" and the Jazz Fest (8 Lug) Snare swapped out with the lesser priced Pioneer (6 Lug.)

In 1966-67 it still had it's "tweaked" sizes but they switched up on the Snare again, using the Acrolite as stock.

Here are the 1966-67 specifications showing the "tweaked" sizes that it sported from 1963-64 on...............................

More To Come / In Progress

That is all I needed, that pretty much assures what I am getting since your saying Club Date never came in the SC sizes down to everything (unless maybe custom ordered, but I am pretty sure it was a stock kit). Thanks, you are a true Ludwig Guru.

Latz, shipping AND polish!?!? Wow, that Monster you have there is definitely a two quart job...................

Really it wouldn't be any more work than the two back to back Stainless Kit's I did, right down to the Lug Cup Washers, Flitzed & two coats of waxed each of those little buggers. If you figure that each Lug has two Cup Washers apiece, well, you get the picture......................

When I finished up with these two, the one in the front used to belong to Matt Chamberlain, I jumped on my Downbeat.
And the Hits just keep rollin' in...............

In addition to Kits & Snares I spent the first three months of this year working, primarily, Vintage Hardware, Stands, Pedals etc.........................

While this Gig is time consuming it sure is a good way to learn alot about this "stuff"

LVDC

LVDC, that MONSTER is only 1 of 5 Ludwig kits. Unfortunately, it is the one that needs cleaning the most. Too many lazy nights of throwing stuff in the roadcase and headin' down the road. It's amazing what just a little bit of moisture can damage and build up overnight.

One of the other kits is a Standard Ruby Strata I am restoring/customizing/upgrading. It actually came with "classic" lugs from the factory, so it's only a Standard by finish and tom mounts. Yeah! I wil post pics when I am finished. It will be one of a kind, that's for sure.

So ya thinik 2 quarts will do it, huh.................

__________________"Never take life too seriously, 'cause you'll never get out of it alive!!"My Dirty Little

One of the other kits is a Standard Ruby Strata I am restoring/customizing/upgrading. It actually came with "classic" lugs from the factory, so it's only a Standard by finish and tom mounts. Yeah! I wil post pics when I am finished. It will be one of a kind, that's for sure.

So ya thinik 2 quarts will do it, huh.................

Interesting Standard information, considering the Strata Finish aspect you mentioned. When Ludwig reintroduced the Standard Line back in the very early 80's they had Blue & Olive Badges as well as the Large Classic Lugs but at that time only offered Cortex Wraps. This later version of the Standard Line had straight Bass Spurs with six ply Bass Shells & only 4 ply for the Toms. A couple of years after the reintroduction they introduced the Rocker Lines and that was that for the Standard's...........................

When I order Flitz I always get two quarts and that usually will do a couple of Kits as well as a few snares but I use far less now than I did when I started doing this sort of thing. One word of advice if using Flitz, about a year ago it seems as if they changed the formula, or I just got a bad batch, the Factory Rep never did explain it, so you will want to use a smaller bottle to work out of, which is easier anyway. Last year about this time I had some go "gloopy" on me, it thickened up, in spite of the fact that I was doing everything as I had been. It was still useable just a royal pain to get it to pour out of the bottle...................

While I had always stored my bottles, large or small, in a zip-loc when not in use I now take it one step futher when closing up my quart after a refill using an old Canoe Builder trick that I have used for years when closing up a can of Paint or Varnish. When closing up my quart after a refill I exhale in the bottle a few times to remove the oxygen, which reduces skimming for Varnish & Paint & "gloopy-ness" in the case of Flitz. After that it goes in a zip-loc and since doing this have had no more problems. I always make it a point, even if taking a break for a few minutes, to close my small "working" bottle in spite of the fact that I have to do a refill every two or three days, depending.....................

I would like to add that when I contacted Flitz about what happened last year they jumped right on it and replaced the "gloopy" quart working with the Company I posted the link to earlier in this thread....................

LVDC

__________________There can be an awful fine line between a rut & a groove............

Interesting Standard information, considering the Strata Finish aspect you mentioned. When Ludwig reintroduced the Standard Line back in the very early 80's they had Blue & Olive Badges as well as the Large Classic Lugs but at that time only offered Cortex Wraps. This later version of the Standard Line had straight Bass Spurs with six ply Bass Shells & only 4 ply for the Toms. A couple of years after the reintroduction they introduced the Rocker Lines and that was that for the Standard's...........................
LVDC

I remember them. Weren't they Rockers with a Standard/Rocker bass head? Kind of a crossbread/crossover set. I thought the Strata finishes are some of the coolest finishes and only available in the Standard series.

I know this is probably a stupid question but, you did know that Ludwig used the same 3-ply shells for the Standards as the Classic line when they were first introduced. The Standards just had the cheaper hardware. Ludwig's attempt at competing with all of the imports of the time. Union labor in Chi-town was the killer for these. But you probably already knew all of this....

I have seen 2 or 3 other kits with Classic lugs, in fact there is a blue strata on ebay right now with classic lugs. The large classic lugs will swap out with the bullet/rocker lugs. Smart on Ludwigs part not having to change drill patterns. My Ruby 12" actually has small/mini classic lugs on it, so it has to be factory. No other footprints either. When I get done with the kit, it'll be double 22" kicks, 6, 8, 10, 12, 13 double headed toms & 14, 16 floors w/ matching 5 & 6.5 snares. All with Standard badges & classic lugs. Someday.....

Enough of my babbling.....

__________________"Never take life too seriously, 'cause you'll never get out of it alive!!"My Dirty Little

That is all I needed, that pretty much assures what I am getting since your saying Club Date never came in the SC sizes down to everything (unless maybe custom ordered, but I am pretty sure it was a stock kit). Thanks, you are a true Ludwig Guru.

Smooth...

Clubdates have different lugs also.....if you have separate lug configuration on the kit your'e getting...it's a SC