The Founding Fathers, Through the Lens of Empire

October 17, 2015

I’ve pasted directly below, nearly verbatim, an essay I wrote for this space on 8 May 2014 titled, “Shadows and Lies” (I updated the original essay on 11 September 2015 with a link to the latest report from Architects & Engineers for 9/11 Truth). Directly below this essay, after an embedded song and a short paragraph, is an essay posted in this space on 13 September 2007. The snippets from 18 months ago update, and serve as a contrast with, my earlier view. The current essay bears the same title as the one from more than eight years ago.

I’ve two additional comments. First, if you read and understand the report regarding 9/11 and still disparage people by calling them “truthers,” then you have no grasp of evidence. Second, even a rudimentary understanding of Thomas Jefferson ought to include a single line expressing his foresight: “Indeed, I tremble for my planet, when I reflect that Nature is inflexible: that her response to our abuse cannot sleep forever.”

When you’re dead, you don’t know you’re dead. People around you feel it, though. It’s the same when you’re stupid.

My promotion of a gift economy seems stupid because it doesn’t involve the pursuit of money. As a result, I receive gifts, especially when I travel. Books and shirts are among the most popular items I receive, and the latter often contain witty historical expressions. Among my tee shirts is one with a phrase from Benjamin Franklin: “It is the first responsibility of every citizen to question authority.”

Most people I encounter clearly do not agree, at least in practice. In theory there is no difference between theory and practice, but in practice there is. Still, I’m astonished at the prevailing mentality among the American citizenry I encounter. Apparently we are so afraid to question authority, so willing to believe blatant lies, that we willingly capitulate to liars and thieves dressed as CEOs and politicians.

I provide few links in this essay. Evidence for each of the following claims is abundant and easily obtained. If you’ve not grasped these tidbits by now, additional evidence will remain unconvincing. I suspect your ignorance is willful, your inability to see a direct result of eyes sealed tightly shut.

Most notable is the inability of nearly everybody I know to pursue radicalism. For starters, most people I’ve met cannot distinguish between a radical and an extremist, despite the clear difference.

If it’s unclear I’m writing about you, ask yourself this question: “What have I done recently that runs counter to the status quo?” If you don’t have a significant response, you’re likely to squirm while reading this essay.

Plunging down a rabbit hole — any rabbit hole — apparently makes one likely to pursue radicalism on additional topics. Fortunately for governments, few citizens are willing to look deeply into any topic, no matter how important. The shadows in the cave are far too comfortable to risk facing reality head-on.

And then there are the Strong Suggestions of Thermodynamics Laws of Thermodynamics. The official story of 9/11 violates the Laws of Thermodynamics, yet few people I know are willing to question the official narrative (consider, for example, the 11 September 2015 report from Architects & Engineers for 9/11 Truth (Beyond-Misinformation-2015), controlled demolition of WTC building 7, and the admission of an inside job by Dubya’s chief economist). After all, doing so would adhere to Franklin’s maxim, a notion foreign to the typical modern ‘murican. The Orwellian absurdity continues with the disparaging term applied to those who question the impossible official narrative: “truther.”

A few additional examples are presented below. They provide an opportunity for me to launch a too-infrequent rant into the void. Ergo, my latest attempt to combine reality with its common partner, absurdity.

Civilization is not the only way to live. Indeed, humans lived without civilization for more than two million years. We’ve lived within the shackles of civilization for a few thousand years. Civilization clearly is omnicidal. Few notice. Even fewer care.

Civilization is an expression of patriarchy. The current version of industrial civilization benefits a few Caucasian men at the expense of every other living being. Most civilized people believe this set of living arrangements is wonderful.

If you are reading these words, you benefit from imperialism. American Empire is real, and it covers the globe. There is no escape.

The United States is dominated by a corporate government and corporate media. When greed is your only god, sociopaths assume control. We’re there, fully embedded within patriarchal fascism. The standard response of my fellow citizens: “I want more. I deserve more.” Apparently I occupy the land of the me and home of the crave.

Working on behalf the big banks is the U.S. Central Intelligence Agency, which has ruled the country and world with an iron fist since World War II. The myriad agencies within the executive branch, including the National Security (sic) Agency, feed the machine. NSA whistle-blower Bill Binney, who worked for the NSA for 30 years before resigning because of concerns he had regarding illegal spying on U.S. citizens in 2001, provides an apt summary: “The Ultimate Goal is Total Population Control.”

The American system of public education is designed to “dumb down” the populace. Critical thinking belongs to a bygone era. Nearly every one of the so-called, self-proclaimed teachers I know refuses to acknowledge reality on this issue. And most other matters, for that matter. These teachers are paid to think, and also to teach others how to think. They have overwhelmingly failed, and they continue to fail.

The prison-industrial complex, like almost every other aspect of American culture, is designed to enrich the wealthy and enslave the poor. Some people claim the system isn’t working. Au contraire: It’s working as planned, as indicated by the beneficiaries of American Empire.

Monogamy and the marriage-industrial complex are part and parcel of patriarchy. The dominant paradigm is not superior to other ways of living. Deep down inside, you surely understand.

We cannot sustain the unsustainable, including civilization. Nor should we attempt to do so. Civilization requires tremendous violence. Industrial civilization is the most violent version yet.

American exceptionalism is a myth. American military power, largely supported by willfully ignorant taxpayers, is necessary to maintain American lifestyles, including grid-tied electricity, the modern banking system, and all that follows.

Abrupt climate change is under way. Global climate change causes suffering and death of humans and other organisms. There is no escape.

Net energy decline is under way and soon will contribute to the early death of most humans on Earth. Fossil fuels have peaked and the Age of Expansion has been replaced with the Age of Contraction. The Age of Conquest has nearly reached its overdue end.

Collapse of industrial civilization is under way and will be complete soon. When collapse is complete, the world’s remaining nuclear power plants will melt down catastrophically, thus shortening the lives of many humans and other organisms. There is no escape.

The interaction between anthropogenic climate change and collapse of industrial civilization affects every aspect of human life in the industrialized world. There is no politically viable approach to addressing either issue, much less the interaction between them.

Many centuries ago, Plato presciently wrote a line that resonates strongly with me: “Those who are able to see beyond the shadows and lies of their culture will never be understood, let alone believed by the masses.” Indeed, we’ll disparage them by, paradoxically, referring to them as “truthers.” We will therefore remain in the shadows of our cave of blissful ignorance.

The following essay was written for this space on 13 September 2007. I think it’s held up rather well, although my current view is that George W. Bush is a pawn, along with all other U.S. presidents to occupy the Oval Office during my time on Earth. The current essay bears the same title as this essay from more than eight years ago.

Lately I’ve been thinking about the founding fathers of this country. I used to turn to them for solace, wondering how they would feel about their Republic-cum-Empire, and thinking they’d be distraught about the fascist state we’ve become.

The world’s best-known collection of dead white guys had much to say about religion, most of it bad. But the mostly ignorant, church-going members of the American populace have gobbled up so many bullshit sandwiches that the fairy tales they’ve adopted about the religious views of the founding fathers are nearly as grand as the ones they’ve accepted about spirits in our midst. The founding fathers were deists, and they were very clear about the separation of church and state. Had Charles Darwin published the Origin of Species a century sooner, there is little doubt the reasonable men who founded the United States would have leaned even further away from the cross.

If the First Amendment doesn’t provide a compelling enough example about the founding fathers and their disrespect for religion, perhaps these passages will elucidate the issue:

“During almost fifteen centuries, the legal establishment of Christianity has been on trial. What have been the fruits of this trial? More or less in all places, pride and indolence in the Clergy; ignorance and servility in the laity; and in both, clergy and laity, superstition, bigotry and persecution.” (James Madison, speech to the General Assembly of Virginia, 1785)

“Religious controversies are always productive of more acrimony and irreconcilable hatreds than those which spring from any other cause. I had hoped that liberal and enlightened thought would have reconciled the Christians so that their [not our?] religious fights would not endanger the peace of Society.” (George Washington, letter to Sir Edward Newenham, 22 June 1792)

“The government of the United States is not in any sense founded on the Christian religion.” (Article 11, Treaty of Tripoli, signed by John Adams, 7 June 1797)

“Believing with you that religion is a matter which lies solely between man and his God, that he owes account to none other for his faith or his worship, that the legislative powers of government reach actions only, and not opinions, I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should ‘make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof,’ thus building a wall of separation between church and State.” (Thomas Jefferson, letter to a Committee of the Danbury Baptist Association, Connecticut, 1 January 1802)

“As I understand the Christian religion, it was, and is, a revelation. But how has it happened that millions of fables, tales, legends, have been blended with both Jewish and Christian revelation that have made them the most bloody religion that ever existed?” (John Adams, letter to F.A. Van der Kamp, 27 December 1816)

“Among the features peculiar to the political system of the United States, is the perfect equality of rights which it secures to every religious sect.” (James Madison, letter to Jacob de la Motta, August 1820)

The contemporary view: Surely Madison didn’t mean to include Muslims. Or atheists. Or agnostics. Or anybody except Gawd-fearing Christians.

The views of the founding fathers on non-religious issues often show great wisdom and compassion:

“As parents, we can have no joy, knowing that this government is not sufficiently lasting to ensure any thing which we may bequeath to posterity: And by a plain method of argument, as we are running the next generation into debt, we ought to do the work of it, otherwise we use them meanly and pitifully. In order to discover the line of our duty rightly, we should take our children in our hand, and fix our station a few years farther into life; that eminence will present a prospect, which a few present fears and prejudices conceal from our sight.” (Thomas Paine, Common Sense, 1776)

Or, to put a BushCo spin on this one: Today’s economy depends on tomorrow’s bankruptry. Day is night. Light is dark. And so on.

“Here sir, the people govern.” (Alexander Hamilton, speech to the New York Ratifying Convention, 17 June 1788)

Dubya’s view is slightly different: “I’m the Decider.”

“An elective despotism was not the government we fought for; but one in which the powers of government should be so divided and balanced among the several bodies of magistracy as that no one could transcend their legal limits without being effectually checked and restrained by the others.” (James Madison, Federalist No. 58, 1788)

“An honest man can feel no pleasure in the exercise of power over his fellow citizens…. There has never been a moment of my life in which I should have relinquished for it the enjoyments of my family, my farm, my friends & books.” (Thomas Jefferson, letter to John Melish, 13 January 1813)Power corrupts. Today’s Executive branch enjoys power that is virtually absolute. It’s not too tough to connect the dots on this one.

Perhaps the most exemplary quote comes from the most enlightened of the founding fathers, Thomas Jefferson. He was referring to Native Americans, but they were merely the best “Them” of the day. The quote holds up very well today. Dubya should be justifying his lust for war by invoking this Jeffersonian line in every speech:

“In war, they will kill some of us; we shall destroy all of them.” (Statement to Secretary of War Henry Dearborn, 1807; The Writings of Thomas Jefferson, edited by Lipscomb and Bergh, volume 11, page 345)

These days, I rarely rely on the founding fathers for solace. They were very pragmatic, and therefore violent. They were, in a word, terrorists. They were correct about so many things. But we have not yet destroyed all of “them.” Here’s hoping the Empire falls before we have a chance.

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Assuming I make it beyond the cutting-room floor, I’ll be featured in a televised episode of National Geographic on 1 November 2015. Footage includes Bill Nye at the mud hut. Details can be found here. Mundane trailer is embedded below.

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Catch Nature Bats Last on the radio with Mike Sliwa and Guy McPherson. To catch us live, tune in every Tuesday at 3:00 p.m. Eastern time, or catch up in the archives here. If you prefer the iTunes version, including the option to subscribe, you can click here.

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Looking for San Francisco Bay Area folks to raise $$$$ to bring Guy to San Francisco. Please contact amyvegan@gmail.com if you are willing to donate towards Guy’s travel here.

The Pentagon agreed to investigate the Doctors Without Borders hospital multiple bombings. They agreed to notify DWB beforehand about the date and time of their arrival. They did this by smashing down the gate of the hospital with an armoured vehicle on Thursday to go into the hospital to destroy evidence. In your face you goddamned hippy doctors.

If Naomi Klein represents the matriarchy, then we’re fucked.

I live under the benign dictatorial regime of my wife. In her matriarchal wisdom, she has agreed to do some more mushrooms this aft.
Yea baby!!!

It appears that American Empire is on its way out, much like civilization and life on the planet. The selfish, greedy, self-serving psychopaths had shot themselves in the foot when they decided to get rid of the middle class by holding wages stagnant for far too long, while everything else continued to rise in price along with oil and housing. Well, lookie what happened! The economy has stalled out and is collapsing, causing the world economy to follow suit and now it’s all about WW III to “revive it!” Yep, we’ve gone FULL RETARD [hat tip to ulvfugl who introduced me to the term] with the Syrian debacle and future foreign policy plans in the Middle East if not everywhere. Oh, and Obama just decided to cancel his campaign pledge to bring home the troops from Afghanistan (gee, what a surprise).

Life has been a giant farce here in the U.S. for as long as i’ve been alive and now it’s on the verge of destroying itself and taking everyone and all other species with it on the way out. It’s beyond depraved and sick, but we’ll suffer on to the bitter end because we have no real choice. The political system is corrupted and broken beyond repair, like the once predictable climate, but it’s protected by the well-paid and well-armed goon squad called Homeland Security. Look for fascism to raise its fist soon in towns and cities all across this festering waste of a country.

Architects & Engineers for 9/11 Truth? How about American White men for uber agency? I cannot count the number of truthers who have claimed that there is no way a bunch of “Ragheads” could pull that off. Only an all powerful nefarious omniscient rouge force could do that. Just like in the movies(which surely hasn’t had any effect in shaping the American psyche at all) More American exceptionalism. Not defeated by a lesser enemy, just a few of our best trained higher up’s gone bad. Another system tweak and all will be right again. Funny though how a couple of years later all it took to fool the vast majority of American sheeple was for Colin Powell to hold up a vial of Tang Drink crystals and claim it proved Saddam had WMD. Hook, line and sinker. Shows how little it takes for the US war drums to boom – no Hollywood false flag needed. It’s blowback plain and simple. When you go through the events what is clear is the absurd level of incompetence, stupidity and bureaucratic bloat of the entire system. It wasn’t a bunch of suspicious coincidences that all happened to line up, it was BAU – a normal day in the incompetent empire. It’s the same agency mindset as medieval man blaming demons and witches, same as climate deniers and even the same as those who need to blame apes collective cancerous behaviour on a handful of psychopathic elites who have been among us from day one.

“Warren, by the way, is worth about $14.5 million, owns a $5 million mansion in Cambridge, was paid $350,000 to teach just one class at Harvard, and has the audacity to say that ‘the system is rigged to benefit the rich.'”

The above illustrates why your walking away from empire isn’t necessarily a mistake. Unlike Warren, you’re walking the walk. Morality is acting in ways that’s consistent with the type of world you want to live in. Of course, one can never be consistent all the time in every single instance… but it doesn’t mean one shouldn’t try. Flat out hypocrites like Elizabeth Warren or Naomi Klein or Al Gore ― sucking at the teet of empire while admonishing others ― are a big part of why we’re in this mess.

Personally, having studied the countless contrarian evidence within numerous books/docs written on 9/11 along with some good ole common sense, I have never come across anyone seriously thinking such an event couldn’t have occur because “ragheads” weren’t capable–something I’ve only ever heard from you.

I do believe you have sunk to the bottom of what our cognitive dissonance is capable of dredging up to justify what it can’t accept. I guess I shouldn’t be surprised, but I’ve yet to hear that “truthers” are primarily motivated by American exceptionalism and racism. Yep, that’s a new one.

Thousands of architects painstakingly laying out in specific detail how 9/11 was physically impossible from the pentagon to #7, is only a result of racist desires of exceptionalism has got to be one of dumbest things I’ve read in this space, and that’s saying something because Shep still regularly posts here.

Good gawd man, with critical thinking such as yours, why can’t water flow uphill? I don’t know, maybe you’re a Mormon, but it’s safe to say you have no background in engineering, architecture or even general construction, and you clearly haven’t much interest in reading detailed analysis….you know, really difficult stuff like rocket fuel burns at 1500 degrees yet steel melts at 2750 degrees.

@Apneaman ‘Architects & Engineers for 9/11 Truth? How about American White men for uber agency? I cannot count the number of truthers who have claimed that there is no way a bunch of ‘Ragheads’ could pull that off. Only an all powerful nefarious omniscient rouge force could do that.’

Good point. In fact the reality is the exact opposite — there’s no way in the uber incompetent Bush administration could have pulled off such a well orchestrated event. If they were so adept at subterfuge and stagecraft, they would have, at the very least, ‘discovered’caches of WMD in Iraq. As we all know they didn’t, which was an embarrassment and huge blow to America’s credibility and prestige.

Another example of the type racism Apneaman alludes to is this obsession with Iran not obtaining nuclear weapons, because well.. you know.. you can’t trust those crazy Iranians with the bomb. Never mind the U.S. is the only country who’s actually used nuclear weapons against a population. And were the situation was reversed, there’s no way in hell the U.S. would tolerate other countries having the bomb without us having one too.

In conversation with someone without Internet access yesterday I suggested that all politicians (well certainly all I know of) are professional liars, and that the pattern we have witnessed throughout our lives, of everything that matters being made worse by politicians and bureaucrats, will continue until the point of financial-political collapse occurs.

Political collapse seems to be approaching fast, if the following reports can be believed.

Put simply, the partnership between Washington’s two worst geopolitical enemies represents a kind of “sum of all fears” scenario and to make matters worse, the alliance between Tehran and Moscow looks as though it will apply to Iraq as well, raising the spectre of the US being kicked out of the country it “liberated” after 9/11.

With US Warships En Route To Islands, China Asks: “What On Earth Makes Them Think We Will Tolerate This?”

So in short, Washington is now in a staring contest with both Moscow and Beijing and both Russia and China seem to have gotten the idea that the US has lost its resolve lately and will probably blink first in both standoffs.

Martin Prechtel was born in New Mexico to a Swiss Father and a First Nations mother and grew up on a Native American reservation there until age 20, when he went to Guatemala, where he lived in a mountain Maya tribe, the Tutujil for decades, becoming both the Chief of the tribe and a master shaman of the region.

During the convulsions of the Civil War, he escaped from Guatemala with his life, and now lives not far from where he was born.

Perhaps the Washington will find a way to avoid the further humiliation that persisting with failed polices will generate. On the other hand, perhaps it won’t.

Interestinger and interestinger.

‘The distinguished and knowledgeable international commentator William Engdahl, in a superb statement, has expressed the view I gave you that Russian President Vladimir Putin’s speech on September 28 at the 70th anniversary of the United Nations changed the balance of power in the world. Until Putin’s speech the world was intimidated by the Washington Bully. Resistance to Washington brought swift retribution. In the Middle East and Africa it brought economic sanctions and military invasions that destroyed entire countries. In France and other US vassal states it brought multi-billion dollar confiscations of bank net worth as the price of not following Washington’s policies toward other countries.

Other countries felt powerless in the face of the arrogant hegemonic Unipower, which from time to time replied to noncompliance with threats, such as US Deputy Secretary of State Richard Armitage delivered to Pakistan, to bomb noncompliant countries “back to the stone age.”

President Putin of Russia brought all that to end on September 28. He stood up before the world in the presence of the overflowing hubris of the hegemon and belled the cat.

Putin denounced Washington’s threat to the sovereignty, and therefy the freedom, of peoples and countries. He denounced the heartless criminality of Washington’s destruction of the lives of millions of peoples on the basis of nothing other than Washington’s own arrogance. He denouced the illegality of Washington’s assauts on the sovereignty of other peoples, and declared that Russia can no longer tolerate this state of affairs in the world.

Two days later he took over the war in Syria and began exterminating the Washington financed and equiped Islamic State. Cruise missiles launched from the Caspian Sea hit ISIL targets with pinpoint accuracy and showed Washington’s EU vassals that Washington’s ABM system could not protect them if Europe permitted Washington to force Europe into conflict with Russia.

Washington’s response was more lies: “the missiles hit Iran,” said the idiots in Washington. The entire world laughed at the lie. Washington, some said, is whistling past its empire’s own graveyard.

Putin’s declaration of multi-polarity was seconded by the President of China, who said in his understated mild way that every country must participate in shaping the future and not just follow the leadership of one.

quote from above—–Civilization is not the only way to live. Indeed, humans lived without civilization for more than two million years. We’ve lived within the shackles of civilization for a few thousand years. Civilization clearly is omnicidal. Few notice. Even fewer care.
——-to extract and comment on that paragraph from the above essay—a few hundred thousand humans lived without civilisation , agreed, but—seven billion can not live without it.. the people who lived without civilisation had wooden poles with hides or grass stretched over them for shelter, and took food from wherever it was available.
yes—our civilisation is unsustainable, but let’s not be under any illusion about what we are going back to. It will not be ‘downsizing’ with a few minor inconveniences.
It is a trait of animal nature to seek out warmth and comfort.
My cat has the means and ability to survive outside all year round—but given the opportunity prefers the warmth, free food and comfort he gets from sharing my bit of civilisation.On the other hand, if I tried to live the cat’s outdoor life full time, I would die.

Population of agriculture based civilization up to just under 1 billion

Population of hunter gatherer world a few million

No “industrial civilization” and probably neither you or I would get born.

All that carbon was dumped in the atmosphere pretty much to get the world population above even a billion, for whatever that is worth. That is why the effort to keep the carbon levels down have not been particularly serious. You would have to start reducing the number of people in the world as well.

Hey Doc :
Whether you like it or not, THE BIBLE is true and will be verified as the collapse ensues. We have been warned in the Book of Revelations and other prophecies in the “Old Testament” what the end will look like and it paints a clear picture of Humanity and the Biosphere experiencing abrupt catastrophic climate change. America will apparently be one of the first casualties for numerous different reasons. I hope that someday you will be willing to at least evaluate that objectively and read what is taught there, but you probably wont. Most American “Christians” haven’t either. Churchianity and Christianity are two very different things. The Churchians will follow the popular leader and accept his rule. A “Christian simply believes in Jesus and accepts his teachings even though we cant be perfect.

Daniel, they never say raghead in the books or doc’s, but go read the comments and articles on the truther sites. I remember a couple of years ago when resident paranoid Kevin tried to co-opt xraymikes site with this agency fantasy. They all came out of the woodwork. Truthers popping up who had never been that site before. They are like bloody missionaries. One guy threatened xraymke and said he is going on “the list”. mike shut him fast enough with some internet detective work – putting his real name, ip and home address up for all to see, but his email as per the rules. These type of threats are typical in the truther community. Just like the threats climate scientists and environmentalists get. This is what true believer zealots do. Maybe you don’t see it danny boy. Maybe you don’t want to. What good are your critical thinking skills when you have limited your view? For every truther architect and engineer there are a thousand architects and engineers who say they are wrong. What about them? What about the demolition professionals? The people who actually do take down buildings and not just speculate on it? Ever listen to what they have to say about it? Why are they not included? Why not “Architects & Engineers & Demolition professionals for 9/11 Truth”? Why are so many truthers also climate deniers and moon hoaxers and adherents to many of the grand hollywood conspiracy fantasies? Critical thinkers spot real patterns in beliefs and behaviours. Even the meme use is similar; “fire can’t melt steel” – “climate always changes”. Architects & Engineers for 9/11 Truth is the Heartland Institute of 9/11. Granted the official story is full of holes and lies and I cannot rule out the possibility that some elements from the CIA or likewise looked the other way, but the idea of a controlled demolition is completely fucking retarded and so is anyone who believes it.

Do you have one or more links to sites where demolitions experts are the predominant posters & commenters ?

I would love to pass them along to a friend or two that have more interest than I do in doing ongoing research into 9/11.

If ‘truthers’ on any issue are drawn primarily from the population of the USA, it really should come as no surprise that you encounter parochial and/or bigoted zealots, dopes, and dopey zealots in the comment section of a variety of websites. Consider the source.

But that doesn’t mean that the architects, engineers, or demo boffins should not have their ideas evaluated as objectively as possible, one aspect of such dispassion being a separation of the process of considering their scientific analyses from the process of sociologically or psychologically categorizing the behavior of various of their adherents.
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.
.For every truther architect and engineer there are a thousand architects and engineers who say they are wrong. What about them?

If you have a couple million names to offer, please go ahead.
Please provide some foundation to what sounds like hyperbole.
As many links as you can muster to get your numbers up to around 2 million, because according to the link below, there are 2,000 professional “A”s & “E”s who are publicly calling for a new investigation.

If you have links that remotely support your rhetoric, let’s see ’em.
Otherwise, feel encouraged to lower your figure of 1000 to 1 down to something that fits your evidence (i.e., however many “A”s and “E”s you can document as having ‘proved them wrong’).

XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
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We need an epithet for the opposite of a “truther”.
With apologies to the late Dr. Swift (who will be 270 years dead tomorrow),
how does “Gullible’s fellow travelers” sound ?

‘paranoid Kevin tried to co-opt xraymikes site with this agency fantasy.’

Hilarious!

‘What about the demolition professionals? The people who actually do take down buildings and not just speculate on it? Ever listen to what they have to say about it?’

Even more hilarious!

Apneman, you reveal your true self once again: an uninformed fuckwit. Bereft of knowledge and apparently incapable of rational thought, you adhere to the most important of the rules of ‘the herd’: don’t seek knowledge and don’t think things through.

I guess you must lament the collapse of Collapse of Industrial Civilisation, where uninformed fuckwits who refuse to examine evidence could extol nonsense that defied the laws of physics and chemistry and be applauded for doing so.

The great irony of Mike’s site was that having declared that he was devoted to finding the truth behind the American hologram, he refused to accept the evidence that revealed the truth behind the American hologram. I suppose being American can easily lead to denial of the truth that underlies American society. It’s just too scary for most people. The litany of lies and corruption accompanied by extreme violence that have characterised American society from the beginning is just too much to bear in the ‘land of the free’.

Fortunately there are many Americans who do seek the truth and see the truth behind the American hologram. Just not enough of them.

Please continue to comment on NBL: those of us with the capacity for critical thinking need to be reminded how ignorant, stupid and stubborn many people are. After all, ignorance requires zero effort, whereas becoming informed does require effort. And constructed ignorance -the maintenance of ignorance through the refusal to examine evidence- is just one of a plethora of factors that are leading to fairly rapid collapse.

Meanwhile, in the real world, titanium alloy aircraft engines do not evaporate upon impact with grass and buildings do not fall to the ground at free-fall speed as a consequence of short-lived, low-temperature fires.

I haven’t raised the 9/11 truther issue here,because I know this site,including Guy are mainly truthers,and as I am from another country, my view would probably be regarded as irrelevant anyway. As Apneaman has raised the issue,I would just like to say that I have done some reading
about it,and I Would endorse what Apneaman says above

There are lots of things being done by people who get off the traditional merry-go-round or revolving door system that cycles people from expert to governmental employee and back. They get off the circle geometry and follow a series of dashes on the org chart to what some refer to as “shadow government”. Somebody’s got to use up all that off-book budget dough. It sure isn’t going to go to feeding the poor & homeless. Not only can they keep secrets better that the Bush administration, they can keep secrets from the Bush, or any other, administration.

Don’t want to believe there’s a shadow government?

Try this on for size…in particular the part about the 1977 meeting at Fairchild Industries.

“Architects & Engineers for 9/11 Truth? How about American White men for uber agency? I cannot count the number of truthers who have claimed that there is no way a bunch of “Ragheads” could pull that off. Only an all powerful nefarious omniscient rouge force could do that. Just like in the movies(which surely hasn’t had any effect in shaping the American psyche at all) More American exceptionalism. Not defeated by a lesser enemy, just a few of our best trained higher up’s gone bad. Another system tweak and all will be right again. Funny though how a couple of years later all it took to fool the vast majority of American sheeple was for Colin Powell to hold up a vial of Tang Drink crystals and claim it proved Saddam had WMD. Hook, line and sinker. Shows how little it takes for the US war drums to boom – no Hollywood false flag needed. It’s blowback plain and simple. When you go through the events what is clear is the absurd level of incompetence, stupidity and bureaucratic bloat of the entire system. It wasn’t a bunch of suspicious coincidences that all happened to line up, it was BAU – a normal day in the incompetent empire. It’s the same agency mindset as medieval man blaming demons and witches, same as climate deniers and even the same as those who need to blame apes collective cancerous behaviour on a handful of psychopathic elites who have been among us from day one.”

Bullshit crap masquerading as anti-racism. No one, be it Arabs or Americans or anyone…. could cause the twin towers AS WELL AS WTC7 to fall by flying airliners into the two towers. The official explanations, all four of them, violate the laws of physics and totally contradict each other. See Expert v Expert by Jon Cole. And see The Trapping of Screw Loose Change by me, at http://www.dailybattle.pair.com/ (scroll down the home page to it). You are trying to use a seemingly radical rant to defend the official story, pure and simple. I got the master of the supposedly leading 9/11 truth debunking website, James Bennet, to look like the complete idiot that he is. Go ahead and try to do better, apeman, i challenge you. I would advise you to read my piece before you try anything so foolish.

Aviation fuel burns in air at around 300oC, rather a lot lower than 1400oC required to melt steel.

What is even more curious is that the smoke emerging from the towers was dense and black, indicating inadequate supply of oxygen and a somewhat lower combustion temperature than would be achieved in the presence of sufficient oxygen.

An experiment almost anyone can do at home is to light a candle and hold the end of a 100mm or 150mm (4 inch or 6 inch) steel nail in the flame.

Several interesting observations:

1. The candle flame immediately becomes smoky.

2. The nail becomes coated with soot.

3. The heat of the flame does not conduct along the nail quickly and no heat is felt by the fingers for quite a while.

4. No matter how long the nail is held in the flame it never gets even dull-red hot.

Candles are hydrocarbon, similar to aviation fuel, but with longer molecules.

Gas appliances are designed to mix air with the methane/ethane/propane/butane in order to achieve high-temperature combustion. And even such mixtures will not melt steel

Fact-resistant humans, the new species that evolved troll Internet sites.

Fact-resistant humans, the new species that evolved to become politicians.

Fact-resistant humans, the new species that evolved to become bureaucrats.

Fact-resistant humans, the new species that evolved to become journalists and editors.

Fact-resistant humans, the new species that evolved to become United Nations delegates.

We go bushwalking here every Tuesday. We have rainforest to our east,and drier country to our west. Joanna loads some photos she takes on those walks to pinterest.com. I will give a link for anyone who is intersted below. There is also a photo of a red-bellied black snake eating a rocket frog,which she took from the window here. She took a series of photos of that,but only uploaded one.http://www.pinterest.com/davidjoanna122/bushwalkingatherton-tablelands-nth-qld-australia/

@Caroline, thanks for the SNL link. They have dropped off the radar for me because of their increasing lack of being funny and our having cancelled regular TV for the $8/month Netflix.

I thought Larry David was ok, until he started COMPLAINING. Bernie complains, but his complaints are not PERSONAL ones. Larry just couldn’t keep his neurotic West-Coast-Woody-Allen shtick under wraps. But it was comedic… My next favorite was Lincoln Chafee. For a politician, he’s actually not a terrible dude, although dynasties.. feh!.. not sure what he is doing in the race. My dad was friendly with his dad, back in the days when there was a sort of vestige of “ethics”, and educated folks who burned up the typewriter ribbon would actually get a response from those in gov’t. RI has had massive corruption, but also some progressive politics coming from quirky white-shoe noblesse-oblige castes, like Claiborne Pell, father of the Pell grants.

Looking up Pell, this is charming:one grandson recalled that his grandfather “jogged in actual business suits that had been reluctantly retired” and “drove a Chrysler LeBaron convertible, which was outfitted with tattered red upholstery, a roof held together with duct tape…when it finally fell apart, he replaced it with a Dodge Spirit, which he had purchased used from Thrifty Rental Cars.”https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Claiborne_Pell

Looking at the histories of Pell and Chafee, they were privileged, but they actually also did shit… unlike most pols today.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Chafee
Can you imagine a Republican today sponsoring a Clean Water Act?

@Kirk, that is a much better video than the one talking about the “flashes”. The flashes, to me, look like the reflections off of panes of glass, while your video shows puffs of pressure busting out windows on floors below the level of ongoing collapse. That could be just the result of anomalous/weaker seals on those windows as the upper bulk comes down and exerts internal pressure.. just sayin’. I don’t put anything past our gov. but am not sure of what that video shows.

The only thing that 9-11 proves to me is that no matter who did it and why, it’s just another example in a huge shit-pile of many examples of why human beings need to exit this planet as soon as possible. Luckily, we don’t seem to need much help on that front. Most of the discussions on here are of the “fiddling while Rome burns” variety- including this one (no judgment on that, either- what else is there to do?). At this point, does it really matter if W himself pressed the remote control button that drove those planes (or missiles or whatever) into the towers and pentagon? No, not really. And of course I think we can all agree that W was, in every sense of the word, just a shell of a president who made no real decisions on his own, so of course even if it was an “inside job” he mostly likely didn’t even know it himself. The ship is sinking rapidly and we’re all on board. So, for the most part, I’ve abandoned any semblance of needing or wanting to know what’s behind all the bullshit. Whether he likes it or not, I have Guy to thank for that. Haha!

Re 9/11
Given I have neither the data, reception,or interest in trawling through the evidence of 9/11; could someone post exactly how, in the face of “Murphy’s law”, Puerto Rico cleaning women, and office workers staying late to have sex;
were these buildings wired to have a controlled demolition?
I am perfectly willing to believe complicity,incompetence and evil intent. But I can’t get past the practicalities of doing the deed.
Halfway through blade shearing 40 odd sheep here. Limited tolerance for foolishness as usual.

1. Airliners off course for up to an hour-and-a-half in the most heavily defended airspace on the planet….and no jet fighters available to intercept because most had been directed away from area by Dick Cheney, to carry out exercises involving hijacking of airliners. “Is this real world or exercise?” asks a confused fighter pilot when Cheney can keep the lid on it no longer.

3. Low temperature, short-lived fires cause free-fall collapse of three buildings in their own footprints (no asymmetry in the collapse phase, despite the plane impacts being asymmetrical in two of the three and no plane at all in the third). Low-temperature-fire-induced collapse occurs for the first and only time in all of history on 9/11. Elsewhere, and on other occasions, fires burn furiously for many hours without causing collapse.

4. Shanksville: plane crashes to the ground and leave NO WRECKAGE. Titanium alloy engines, with a boiling point in excess of 3000oC, evaporate on impact with grass. The first and only time in the history of aviation that a plane crashes and leaves no wreckage.

5. Fire-fighters report explosions in the lobby and lower levels of the towers; their evidence is dismissed by the 9/11 commission.

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@babajingo“I’ve abandoned any semblance of needing or wanting to know what’s behind all the bullshit.”

I agree with your post. I don’t think I care anymore either, even about things like having any resolution to the ‘free will or not’ argument. It’s pretty much all just a bunch irrelevant bullshit now. Thanks for saying it; we can marry if you like. 🙂

@shep”Sick beyond belief on so many levels.”

That video was sick beyond belief on ALL of the levels! Just when I could have been lulled back into thinking there might be at least some redeeming qualities to human beings … you go and post that video and remind me that no, there probably aren’t. Thanks for the reality check.

:/

@44south”But I can’t get past the practicalities of doing the deed.”

The way you do it is to send in people who pose as office maintenance staff. They work nights, and days too, over the course of many, many, many months. They do ‘regularly scheduled building maintenance’ and stuff. Particularly the stuff part. I recall there was even a connection made back to who one of the large contractors for ‘building maintenance’ was for the period leading up to the ‘bullshit.’ It demonstrated a direct connection back to … you know … them.

lol … them … the bullshit people!

Didn’t you watch that TV show that they had ten years ago?
They explained it all … right there on the telly. 😉

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Ha ha …I no longer care what’s behind the bullshit!

I’m going to take a felt marker and make that into a little logo on my t-shirt.
Thanks babajingo. (hugs) 😉

@babajingo “I’ve abandoned any semblance of needing or wanting to know what’s behind all the bullshit.”

LWA: I agree with your post. I don’t think I care anymore either, even about things like having any resolution to the ‘free will or not’ argument. It’s pretty much all just a bunch irrelevant bullshit now.

If that’s where you’re at, I’m not gonna judge you. You’re most likely suffering from COMPLICATED GRIEF – which affects about 20% of those who are grieving.

Mebbe I missed a post, but I don’t recall Guy ever talking about that. The folks he had his weekend training with, who wrote “The Grief Recovery Handbook” sure don’t mention it in their book.

Most of the folks I got in my Grief Coaching practice suffered from complicated grief, and those guys’ techniques was like trying to take down an elephant with a peashooter.

One of the telltale signs that a person is suffering from complicated grief is this:

If a person is suffering from normal grief, we have a natural mechanism that kicks into play. Over a year or two…or perhaps three…the person starts cycling through the various stages (regardless of whether you use Kubler-Ross’ model or some other).

With complicated grief, that doesn’t happen. The person is stuck. They’ve fallen, and they can’t get up.

I can assure you that a lot of DOOMER types go through the various stages of grief, integrate their anticipatory loss, and come out the other side with DEEP acceptance – acceptance in the HEART, and not just the HEAD. There is pain, and sorrow – but there no more hatred, no more rage – wheter introjected or projected, because they know that all the hatred and rage won’t change the arc of our corporate destiny – and they have CHOICES over how to think and feel.

People stuck in complicated grief don’t have such choices. They remain slaves to their fear, their anger, their sorrow.

Personally, I WAS stuck in complicated grief once – along with accompanying PTSD – for three long and hellish years. Until I got past it, I really couldn’t “pursue a life of excellence” anymore.

Now, I can. I can meet this present day with TRUE equanimity, even though I know we’re short termers here, and nothing I do or do not do will change that fact.

Once again, everything written in the lead essay and following comments is correct. So … so what? Do posters feel that acknowledgements should be made, or is a self-satisfactory sense of being right sufficient for ego gratification?

My father, a veteran of one of the TLAs mentioned, clued me in to what was going on when I was a teenager. His famous private motto, which I have lived to the fullest, is “He who complains has already lost”.

If you really think you’re clever and have it all figured out, why not attempt to out-game the gamesters? Oh, that’s right, those with a finely developed sense of ‘ethics & morality’ cannot bear to envision the process of violating their sacred beliefs.

And yet, those beliefs are just that: an invented perspective used to justify non-action. There is no fundamental basis for their existence, other than as an excuse to be wielded as a tool of self-defense when questioned about their position.

Among those that share the same mal-adapted behavior, a fine sense of self-righteousness is present that further feeds the cycle of indignation & despair. The trick is to break free of group-think, use your knowledge to your advantage, and get in there and play the game as it’s meant to be played.

“Re 9/11
Given I have neither the data, reception,or interest in trawling through the evidence of 9/11; could someone post exactly how, in the face of “Murphy’s law”, Puerto Rico cleaning women, and office workers staying late to have sex;
were these buildings wired to have a controlled demolition?
I am perfectly willing to believe complicity,incompetence and evil intent. But I can’t get past the practicalities of doing the deed.
Halfway through blade shearing 40 odd sheep here. Limited tolerance for foolishness as usual.”

“1. Airliners off course for up to an hour-and-a-half in the most heavily defended airspace on the planet….
3. Low temperature, short-lived fires cause free-fall collapse of three buildings in their own footprints (no asymmetry in the collapse phase, despite the plane impacts being asymmetrical in two of the three and no plane at all in the third). Low-temperature-fire-induced collapse occurs for the first and only time in all of history on 9/11. Elsewhere, and on other occasions, fires burn furiously for many hours without causing collapse…….”

Ed, I’m more in a place of what I call not-too-complicated anger, hatred, contempt, & disgust.

I will always hate & rail against the despicable deceit by the Israeli bought U.S. government leading to the bloodthirsty murder of ONE MILLION INNOCENT IRAQI PEOPLE, including tens of thousands of innocent Iraqi women & children.

Colin Powell is the quintessential pretentious team player, who went with the flow of the murderous lying game plan.

Does the retired four star general see terrified screaming Iraqi children in his dreams?

@ B9K9- You’re an old timer here, so maybe you’re just playing devil’s advocate, but in case you’re serious….. Are we supposed to be impressed? Anyone can jump in and “play the game as it’s meant to be played”, just like the other human primates hopped up on testosterone, adrenaline, red bull, and grand theft auto. And now with NTE looming, you can do it “guilt free”! How convenient to have such a simplistic worldview, gazing out from your glass and steel tower.

But if it is a game, it’s a zero sum game…
Everything you take deprives something else, most likely an innocent non-human animal, of habitat, food, water, and life itself. Your ripples of greed radiate out and affect tier after tier of the web of life, causing pain and suffering, like child abuse creates a chain of events that continues through time and generations, and spills outside the family and over into the rest of the world.

Does fact that we’re all spiraling down the drain together at this very moment mean that we should join the elephant poachers and the dolphin slaughterers, and abandon all ethics for those last few bits of silver and gold?

At this point, the least we can do is to allow them to die in peace on their dying planet, rather than perish in agony at the hands of a species gone insane. The right thing to do at this point would be to dedicate the remainder of one’s life to allowing them to live and die in peace, standing guard if need be, against the insane predators. But this is just one megafauna example, the same thing is happening on many different levels.

Why are some so driven to acquire and hold more than they need to live? Maybe because it’s the easiest thing, consumption without thought, the path of least resistance, the path that allows you to ignore what you’ve done, and allows you to see it all as nothing more than a meaningless game, a tale told by an idiot, signifying nothing.

I am trying to post the Dr. Judy Wood presentation at New Horizons in the UK. It is just under 2 hours and completely undermines AE 911 Truth stance on controlled demo, thermite or nano thermite as those destructive processes employ tremendous blinding light and multi thousand degrees of heat which was not seen in the evidence.

There are dozens of striking points of evidence that this remarkable woman has brought together. The New Horizons presentation has the highlights of her Evidence.

I was at first sucked into the AE 911 truth information until I saw Dr. Judy Wood’s name posted in the comments section of a 911 ten year marker article on Yahoo.

I was having a very hard time with the demolition rigging idea, the 2 towers and building 7 showed two very different destructive processes.

I bought and read Dr. Wood’s, Where Did the Towers Go and if anyone here wishes to claim any credibility on this most important on subjects I am stating that you have not done your homework and deserve a D- grade. Only D- and not an (F) as at least you have some sense or concern about how important 911 was, is and always will be.

If the video does not come up in the space of my comment I would ask that someone out there share with me how to get those to show up as so many I have seen. (Kevin Moore has posted some great videos and I thank you for those)

I have much more to share about this and other topics all related to NTHE.

There used to be a long-ish Youtube clip from Jesse Ventura’s TV show in which he & his crew went to visit John Hutchison. There were some interesting demo’s of what seems to be something that will twist metal w/o contacting it.

I can’t find the long clip on YTube…maybe Ventura’s website has something.
When you click on the link on his website to go to that particular episode, a message (from YT) says the video does not exist.

If not streaming on Netflix or available at your local Redbox DVD machine, you can download it via the torrent world. In case you don’t want all of Season One, the 9/11 + Hutchison show is S01 E02.

If you’re not familiar with torrents, study up at least a little before you venture in. If your ISP notices you downloading copyrighted material (HBO stuff gets ’em extra twitchy) you could be in a spot of bother.

Just go to YT and search ‘explain torrents’ and go to school.

McDonalds and other places have wifi that will let you DL via torrents.
McDonalds in particular I have used and never had any staff come over and tell me I had to stop. Maybe being bigger than HBO has its privileges.

Original: McDonalds and other places have wifi that will let you DL via torrents.

Corrected: McDonalds and other places have wifi that you can use to download via the torrent process. Before being connected you have to agree to terms & conditions that say you will not do a number of things, among them downloading via torrents or a similar process. I’ve been to the same McD’s at least 10 times with literally nobody on their staff showing any comprehension or interest in what I was doing. Lotsa folks there with laptops & phones these days. You’ll blend right in.

An East Tennessee Blount county passed a resolution asking God for mercy as it is forced to comply with the Supreme Court ruling that effectively legalized gay marriage nationwide.

The resolution asks God to protect the county from the fate of the biblical cities Sodom and Gomorrah.

The resolution says, “We adopt this resolution before God that He pass us by in His Coming Wrath and not destroy our County as He did Sodom and Gomorrah.”

SABINE – I’ve got a feeling a few of these fundamental folks in TN have genetics from the Mayflower pilgrims that got sent to the new world for being too extreme in England.

CBS TV news ran a clip of all the religious protesters. All their end of the world signs were sort of ringing a bell…but it will be from nuclear meltdowns and abrupt climate change. Somehow they think Climate & radiation is supposed to not touch their country? They fear gays more than out of control consumerism & military powers.

TOM – The sensitive physical 9-11 documents I received by a file routing mistake (Gen. Lloyd Austin) are legal papers relating to NYC fines & injunctions to have large amounts of 1970’s asbestos removed from all the towers. The Silverstein group sought many delays to the asbestos removal. Pages of details involve a specific contract George Bush’s family controlled demolition company to work on the tower structure. Even direct links to “Thermite” materials & special DOD “powders” delivered a week before Sept 11.

A friend in NYC city hall has asked me this week to Fedex the original docs. Maybe there is still time for some truth and justice to be served. At the very least I hope Jeb Bush does not get elected next year. Not that it matters much compared to larger military plans.

The Cyber Tech industrial complex does not think in terms of China, Russia or USA. They are all in the same Rand Corp system when it comes to Bio-war analysis. Monthly steps are being taken to launch extreme war events by next fall. A limited nuclear war & Bio release pandemic is reason enough to declare Marshal law and cancel the hassle of rigged elections.

Till then the political show does reap profits. Mass media commercials. Massive fraud. Continunity of Gvt exit plans are in place for those who stage false flags. Even “dissidents” like Guy are allowed to voice warnings for a reason…little happens by accident.

I’m fairly sure the Global Empire will push all our systems as far as they can – including keeping up the public pretense that Bank of International settlements is not perfectly aware of all their options for massive population reduction. No doubt the Applied Molecular Evolution GMO Tardigrade project is part of their radioactive reducing survival solution. Some of the elite have a more comprehensive survival plan than people can imagine. Yet obviously nobody is going to risk pushing those buttons (inducing instant change) until the Methane & other readings tell them it’s time for stage 2 & 3 reduction solutions. We are lucky to be able to talk about any of this on NBL. There is a kill switch on the internet and freedom of communication. In time we may all see the TRUTH of the matters I’m trying to report in my last 60 days connected to Empire. MarkjAustin@gmail.com

The new issue of the Atlantic has an interview with Bill Gates. Gates states that it’ll take a miracle to save the planet from climate change (he’s right). He goes on and states that he’s fairly confident scientific innovation can provide that miracle (wrong!). To his credit he supports a tax on CO2 emissions, but nary a word about overpopulation. With Gates wealth he could provide birth control drugs/devices to a lot of folks who otherwise wouldn’t have access to it.

I know none of this matters since we’ll all be dead from climate choas within 20-30 years. Still it irks me when folks who should know better pussyfoot around the issue of overpopulation.

9/11 truthers: what a colossal pile of crap. The quality of “reasoning” is, as Apneaman pointed out, exactly on a par with that of climate change deniers. How ironic. The article Jeff S wrote and linked to is an embarrassment (to himself). I recall Kevin Moore alluding to the moon landing as a hoax, which just goes to show how adept he is at twisting the facts to support his rigid biases.
Holy shit. We all have our blind spots but this 9/11 conspiracy business is pathetic. Disgusting, even. Well, you all can’t help yourselves though. So I’m going to read up on the factors that incline people to conspiracy theories, in an effort to understand.
Obviously it satisfies some perverted need — to blame? to be a victim? Must investigate…

This is well after 9/11. Since then we have seen the creation of Homeland Security, Patriot Act, NDAA, and a shit load of other so called security measures – spying on the populous with hundreds of billions spent. Yet this kind of thing still happens with some regularity. Another false flag conspiracy Kevein or just a couple more examples of the empire of incompetence and stupidity?

Hey Kevin, America is the richest nation in the world with the most powerful military in history by a long shot. How did that work out for them in Vietnam? How about in “Mission Accomplished” Iraq? Afghanistan? How is the high end high tech Drone program working out? Ukraine? Syria? Yet for some reason contrary to the track record we are supposed to believe this same overpriced, bumbling, sputtering machine runs like a dream within US airspace. You can’t out spend stupid Kevin and you can’t buy competence.

Tomgram: Engelhardt, A Record of Unparalleled Failure

So here are five straightforward lessons — none acceptable in what passes for discussion and debate in this country — that could be drawn from that last half century of every kind of American warfare:

1. No matter how you define American-style war or its goals, it doesn’t work. Ever.

2. No matter how you pose the problems of our world, it doesn’t solve them. Never.

3. No matter how often you cite the use of military force to “stabilize” or “protect” or “liberate” countries or regions, it is a destabilizing force.

4. No matter how regularly you praise the American way of war and its “warriors,” the U.S. military is incapable of winning its wars.

5. No matter how often American presidents claim that the U.S. military is “the finest fighting force in history,” the evidence is in: it isn’t.

Wren, every word/phrase you used to either disparage or elevate are artificial constructs used to attack and/or defend one’s particular position. Positive concepts such as empathy, morality, civility, ad infinitum simply do no exist in nature as absolutes such as gravity, light, etc.

Rather, the behavioral characteristics these terms exemplify are a product of careful cultivation and domestication, purposefully selected to breed compliant sheep over millenia of civilization.

If you perceive yourself to be an ’empathetic ethical person’, are you proud that hundreds of generations of your forebears were conditioned, trained & pruned to achieve you, the ultimate product of compliance?

How else did you become you? What pre-conceived conditions existed so that you would be receptive to a message of hope & understanding? Why is that you achieve a dopamine release when extolling self-congratulatory missives of ‘superior’ attitude?

For a group of very bright people, perhaps the greatest virtual gathering on the ‘webs, it’s amazing (at least to me) that there isn’t more self reflection. Here we have scientists well versed in all kinds of disciplines, yet none dare to breach the topic that perhaps most exemplifies how people react in different situations.

Oh, that’s right, we possess some kind of mystical “agency” that allows to think at a level of abstraction that justifies kindness, cooperation, sharing, giving, etc. Right … When are people going to wake up and accept that everything we are today is a product of events that took place thousands, tens of thousands, hundreds of thousands of years ago?

@Mark Austin, thanks again for your intriguing comment. Not sure at the moment if this is from a link in the current thread, or a link found at a link… but anywhoo.. let’s not forget this:

…upon investigating this security apparatus at the WTC, we quickly stumble into the fact that Marvin Bush, George W.’s younger brother, was a principal in a company called Securacom (now Stratesec), the very company in charge of security at the WTC in 2001. Again, it is important to note that the author is not making this up. “Marvin P. Bush, the president’s younger brother, was a principal in a company called Securacom that provided security for the World Trade Center, United Airlines, and Dulles International Airport.” And not to be outdone by this fact, we also learn that “from 1999 to January of 2002 (Marvin and George W.’s cousin) Wirt Walker III was the company’s CEO.”

That this stunning, remarkable fact is not front-page news in every newspaper in the country is a mystery I cannot answer, nor solve.

@Mark, P.S. I would not let go of those originals until you are damn sure you know what will happen to them. If you don’t want to carry them with you, then store them in an undisclosed location. Photocopies will suffice for your NYC friend for now, if he/she thinks they can make use of them. [Source: years of dealing with Italian bureaucracy. Never give up your originals!]

Sorry ’bout that. I completely forgot to include a link to an article about a very interesting meeting that took place in 1977 at Fairchild Industries.

http://www.lermanet.com/communion/carol-rosen.htm
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@Apneaman
It appears as though you and Mr. Engelhardt have either missed or just conveniently ignored the fundamental reason that the U.S. goes to war (which is completely different from the rationale that the government and media offer).

The fundamental reason is, of course, to provide profit opportunities for various of the companies that constitute the Military-Industrial Complex.

“Winning” in traditional terms is irrelevant.
If they don’t win, that just provides more fuel for the next installment.
And the government and media trot out and feed the meme of “This won’t be like last time when XYZ kept us from prevailing. (Where XYZ can be the supposedly liberal media or a weak/scapegoat-able ally or the treachery of the adversary.)

As to how ‘America’ could have pulled off a conspiracy like this w/o a leak, feel free to check out the link above in the reply to cuntagious. You’re thinking in old, traditional terms with regard to what part of ‘America’ creates things like false flag operations. It ain’t the U.S. Army.
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@JackieSo I’m going to read up on the factors that incline people to conspiracy theories, in an effort to understand.

If sincere, try reading about this list of big, known events or plans.

‘The trick is to break free of group-think, use your knowledge to your advantage, and get in there and play the game as it’s meant to be played.’ -b9k9

iow, with complete selfishness with the goal of winning when winning is defined as accumulating the most ‘wealth’/power? is that what u mean, harmless canine, about how the game should be played? as one who looks out for #1, why bother trying to create more competitors by encouraging others to adopt your ways? is the path of ‘sociopathy’ lonely at times?

‘When we’re faced with no less than extinction
Whilst living a life of distinction
The shit hits the fan
But we haven’t a plan
Or the courage to face our conviction

Limerick challenge anyone?’ -zarquon

hell no! i can’t beat that. that’s btd quality, zq. that hits home.

everyone, please don’t feed the trolls and be well if u can. just because we’re all gonna die doesn’t mean shit. shit still matters.

@Mark Austin
After years of dealing with bureaucracy in Costa Rica I second Lidia’s caution about turning loose of any original documents.

Not necessary to hold onto them as tightly as Heston’s cold dead hands would grip his gun, but I’d at least make a video of the transfer from you to whoever needs originals so badly. If they’re reluctant to go along with that protocol, then use you best judgement, but I’d be super-skeptical.
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Apneaman,
Any plans to provide that looong list of demolition experts or architects or engineers who have proved so many 9/11 analysts wrong?
I realize 2,000,000 is a big number, but it was derived from your ratio.
Maybe you need another day or two.
Or maybe you’re thinking of scaling back your claim.
I’m not an elephant but I do have a trunk and a long memory.
I’ll be here for quite a while.

The belief in government incompetence is a popular one, and one not without some merit, but this ‘belief’ falls far short of explaining 9/11, never mind refuting all the sound scientific and forensic analysis done (and still being done) on the destruction of the WTC buildings and the hypothesis of controlled demolition that (to date) best fits all the available (and readily available observable) evidence.

Secondly, such a belief ignores or glosses over the fact that when it comes to covert military intelligence black ops, this part of our government has, over the course of its long history, an astonishing rate of success. In fact, the military intelligence complex has controlled this country ever since removing JFK.

But as Guy noted early on in this piece, some people have no ability to grasp the supporting evidence indicating the false flag inside job nature of 9/11. Much easier to just attribute the events of that day to “incompetence” and their belief in this explanation with irrelevant examples.

As to why 9/11 or any thing else Guy touched on matters is, I suppose, a personal issue. I think Guy does a fine job articulating his feelings about why any of this matters — which appears to me to be that he cares about telling it like it is. That’s why I’m here too, because I see it pretty much the same way and it matters to me to know I am not alone with such an understanding.

Anyway, for anyone interested in this topic A&E for 9/11 Truth have just recently published an excellent 50 page booklet on the WTC buildings destruction, which I highly recommend. For a donation of $2.50 it can be downloaded here: http://www.beyondmisinformation.org/#beyond-misinformation

Jackie Says:
October 19th, 2015 at 5:05 pm
“9/11 truthers: what a colossal pile of crap. The quality of “reasoning” is, as Apneaman pointed out, exactly on a par with that of climate change deniers. How ironic. The article Jeff S wrote and linked to is an embarrassment (to himself). I recall Kevin Moore alluding to the moon landing as a hoax, which just goes to show how adept he is at twisting the facts to support his rigid biases.
Holy shit. We all have our blind spots but this 9/11 conspiracy business is pathetic. Disgusting, even. Well, you all can’t help yourselves though. So I’m going to read up on the factors that incline people to conspiracy theories, in an effort to understand.
Obviously it satisfies some perverted need — to blame? to be a victim? Must investigate…”

You have any specifics? Or do you think you can get away with just throwing a bunch of invectives, like James B tried with me? I skewered his ass. Tell us how molten iron ended up in the WTC dust, or how huge beams from the Twin Towers got cast off horizontally for several hundred feet if there was only fire and gravity at work, or how WTC 7 came down at all, let alone at free fall acceleration, would you? And use real science.

Re Judy Wood: i knew her personally, she started off really good, her article about the billiard ball experiment which refutes the official story re the Twin Towers, but then went off the edge with stuff which can only serve to make 9/11 researchers look like nut cases. D-

As a 9-11 “agnostic” I would say it would make things more clear if there was any kind of consensus in the truth movement as to what actually happened. So many theories seem to be so convoluted as to be absurd. I do not, for example, believe that a plane was landed somewhere in Ohio where the passengers were escorted off and summarily executed in a warehouse. And for what purpose was the whole thing orchestrated? If it was an inside job with the intention of going to war in the Middle East (i.e. a new Pearl Harbor), why didn’t they make all the hijackers from Afghanistan and Iraq and NOT Saudi Arabia? Would’ve made the selling of the war in those places much, much easier. Having almost all of them Saudi Arabian citizens only complicated the matter- especially since they’re technically an ally. At least the Golf of Tonkin incident was in the correct vicinity to blame North Vietnam.

I’m among the many, many people who have big questions about what happened but sadly, I have long since given up on ever getting the answers. 9-11 sent me on an activism frenzy for a good few years- not as a ‘truther’ but rather trying to stop another Vietnam from happening in Iraq. As you can see, we were successful in that endeavor (I’m being sarcastic, since often times people here don’t seem to recognize sarcasm). Now that NTHE is so pressing, however, all of that seems almost trite in retrospect.

‘I recall Kevin Moore alluding to the moon landing as a hoax, which just goes to show how adept he is at twisting the facts to support his rigid biases.’

Actually I spent my early adult years as a research chemist. And one of the really odd things about research chemists is that they take great notice of facts, especially facts like times, temperatures, concentrations, formation of precipitates, precipitation rates, filtration rates, solubility etc.

I subsequently spent an number of years in process control, and guess what, that involved accurate recording of times, temperatures and concentrations etc.

I also spent rather a lot of time involved in environmental monitoring. Oddly enough, that involved accurate measurement of time, as flow rates, concentrations, and in some cases taking account of wind direction etc.

I spent some time teaching what might be called materials science, and investigation of the properties of materials.

I thus find I am cursed, because I see things others do not see and can analyse events and situations in a way others cannot.

Oh for short-sightedness and a blank mind, like so many who comment and sling insults here. Ignorance must be such bliss.

(Guy seems to be afflicted with the same conditions as me, requiring evidence before believing something, and using evidence to connect the dots.)

Re Judy Wood: i knew her personally, she started off really good, her article about the billiard ball experiment which refutes the official story re the Twin Towers, but then went off the edge with stuff which can only serve to make 9/11 researchers look like nut cases. D-

What edge, with what stuff? Give us a list of half dozen or so items.

Did you read her 500 page textbook?, Not a 50 page booklet.

The buildings did in fact primarily turn to dust in mid air. The many angles of videos showing the 700 foot high spire of steel support columns is in my view 100% proof the “Fire” theory nor the “Controled Demo” theory can support.

1400 “Toasted Vehicles” some with their engines completely vanished, yet tires unburned in many cases, plastic police lights not melted just above steel door frames wilted over and deformed.

There are ZERO pictures of molten steel running down channel rails. Please produce one or more.

Here is another shorter video which just has lots of pictures running along with the discussion. Starts with slow motion which is not a collapse in any way shape or form, and does not look like any controlled demolition I have ever seen. We have something here never before seen,… and go figure, the M.I.Complex has had trillions upon trillions to play with for the last 60+ years to devise some pretty tricky ways to Kill and destroy in the name of Freedom and Democracy!

The Theory, must explain ALL the EVIDENCE, Building 7 looks like a controlled Demo, but SEVEN WTC buildings were destroyed. Whatever theory must explain ALL the Evidence. Dr. Wood explains much more about building 7.

Can I ask you straight and away. Did you watch the New Horizons presentation? Did you read Where Did the Towers Go ???

Most on this site are emphatic about their adherence to EVIDENCE.

What I see of the evidence Dr. Wood presents supports the basic claim that the buildings, (1 & 2) most specifically did turn mostly to DUST and did not crash violently to the ground. See Seattle King Dome comparison.

BUILDINGS TURNED TO DUST IN MIDAIR ON 9/11 – FIELD INTERFERENCE 018

Let’s stay on course and get this thing settled so we can do something positive to remove those behind this horrific crime from power prevent more destruction. By the way there is way more to go over on the 911 subject and HOW it ties into Climate Change.

‘I recall Kevin Moore alluding to the moon landing as a hoax, which just goes to show how adept he is at twisting the facts to support his rigid biases.’

Ahem! Don’t be too hasty to chuck the Moon Landings Hoax out with the loony bathwater:http://www.aulis.com/stereoparallax.htm
As with 9/11 there are some very serious discrepancies with the official narrative. And dare I say it, Gerald Spezio is on the case with the dodgy WWII Holocaust official narative also, so stop bashing him and just look at the evidence; it takes courage; suspend your disbelief.

And yes, it does of course all feed into NTHE eg, the unholy trinity of Climate Change, Peak Oil and Financial Collapse. How could it be otherwise?

I visited the caves at Lascaux very recently, I live nearby. They are absolutely mindblowing!https://vimeo.com/40849516 virtual tour
As Picasso said on seeing them for the first time “We have learned nothing”.

So… not to change the subject or make a 3rd post as I’m wont to do or anything, but does anybody like The Brian Jonestown Massacre? I’m just up working and was listening to them. First discovered them through a documentary called “Dig!” back whenever the hell that was, and since then became a fan. Anyway, here’s a sample. If you like it, check out Dig!

On Saturday I got high on mushroom tea, it’s now Tuesday, and you whack-jobs are still going on in full-tilt, bat-shit crazy mode.
Impressive. It’s the end of the world, and you guys are still sticking your fingers up your ass and smelling the shit.

Many of us narcissistic assholes comment merely to impress others with how fucking superior we are, while all we actually do is show how retarded we are. This site is about the end of our world, not the end of your world. It’s called morbid fascination, I am one sick fuck!

I left the US post 911 because I thought the whole country had gone psycho mental insane. More on that in a moment. On the afternoon I was sure that the last jet was shot down by US air force. That I could be sure of. The rest was a right wing power play. Although I didn’t immediately recognize it at the time, as I was neck deep in Anti-WTO, Union organizing, Community Control of Police Advocacy, Food Not Bombs, developing subversive web sites, in the midst of a movement to make bush a 1 term president and also producing my own Public Access TV show. Busy guy I was. And we were winning.

In a word, I and people like me got rolled by 911. A total Wipeout. It was a complete excuse for a right wing re-occupation of the entire cultural sphere. I remember just hours after driving down the street and being followed by a police woman who was in full hyperactive Superwoman Johnny To The Rescue mode, driving like a lunatic. Pulling up behind me, shining a light on me and then lunging her car around dangerously to pass on a 2 lane road, then speeding off to fight crime like the caped crusader or something. This – in case you are a white boy and don’t know – is how poor and POC people experience the cops every single day. But on that day, I knew everything had dropped over the cliff since she wasn’t even being shy about it any longer.

Well, what happened? We got a fully illegitimate “Roberts” “Alito” Supreme court. Reactionary Dream. The patriot act (Sec. Clinton, do you regret your vote for the Patriot Act? Answer: No). Massive public re-capitalization of psychos like Lockheed Martin. A complete gov subsidized and protected theft of the entire treasury (just like S&L 1980s theft- which allowed this theft), plus multi decades worth of new money conjured out of nothing, handed with glee to failed banks subsidize corporate buyout spree of the entire planet. The NSA on steroids. And now the death of all life on the planet so a bunch of pig headed pig fking white boys can have one more walk in the sun.

Funny that the only persons one ever encounters who buy into the official tale of 9-11 are, at least from my vantage point out here in the wasteland, very European looking, and if not looking then very Euro thinking and wedded to their system. And coincidentally, these folks “who believe” reside almost exclusively on stolen and genocided indigenous territory. I mean, daddy’s gotta get ~paid~ doesn’t he? Whether he’s a bleeding commie in Boston, a lobotomized nutless soldier-boy in redneck Kentucky, a hack newspaper columnist in Harlem, a grasping wannabe boojwa insurance salesman from the west coast, or a loser in Chicago desperately trying to sell his website to establishment ultra-conservatives. These people couldn’t be more settler, couldn’t be more colonial, couldn’t be whiter, or more euro, and couldn’t see or recognize their own face if you super-glued a mirror on their nose.

Thus we get these sto-ries. The ones that go on and on, making excuse after excuse for the theft, the rape, the brutality, the horror, the ongoing genocide, the endless violence. Ad nauseum. Ad nauseum.
Anything except just giving up and walking out on the project.

I mean, daddy’s got to get ~paid~. Daddy needs a new pair of shoes. Or else daddy might feel impotent and worthless. Might not feel like he fits any longer into contrived and ridiculous gender stereotypes and roles. Ones based entirely on ability to practice exploitation, theft, rape, brutality, horror, genocide and violence with impunity.

So yeah, there’s that.

I will say again what I said elsewhere.
4 years ago, on Sept 11 one decade after the fact, I sat in an ESL classroom at 6:30am Kora time, with one of the lead engineers on Burj Dubai, which is the tallest free-standing structure in human history. This guy was one straight arrow and serious no-nonsense family man of the likes only Korea can produce. I mean, he was in a classroom at 6:30am with intent to improve his English when no other reasonable person would even be out of bed at that time.

So, since it was “the anniversary” of the birth of total right wing terror, I told him I had found Architects & Engineers for 911 and asked him point blank: “What happened?”

He tells me flat out that no building anywhere would collapse like that. He tells me any building of that size would automatically tilt to a side and fall sideways.

Yes, and I went over to Manhattan when visiting a friend in Brooklyn and we stood at the base of those towers. I remember looking straight up and thinking holy jesus, this is so friggin huge it must be like the pyramids or some ungodly gigantic super monument. I would gander that nobody claiming Bush’s boys were right ever stood there and looked up 1/2 a kilometer into the sky.

So, anyway. I asked my Korean Burj Dubai Engineer ESL student what the hell he thought happened. And he said. Zip. Mouth shut. We will not talk about this any longer.

Steven Best is a professor at Univ of El Paso, scholar of the Animal Rights movement, and advocate of abolition of animal slavery and exploitation. Best states unequivocally that his project is re-wiring synapses of the human brain.

So if you are of the idea that humans are exactly equivalent of cancerous RNA cells, and that “human society” is, and always has been fixed in stone as some kind of psychotic grape jello mold, my project is to reject this thesis utterly and to re-wire your Euro dribbling brain that obsessively tries to conflate your omnicidal Euro dribbling culture as equal to ALL of humanity for ALL time.

This is still a constricted view of what is actually there and what is possible, if you’d care to bother to get out and look for yourself. And that it is not anything new or insightful for people in Africa who saw it and made the same comment centuries ago. And that indigenous North Americans saw it and called it for what it was centuries ago. What the Cree identified and Jack Forbes cataloged in his work Columbus and Other Cannibals. And what the population of Tasmania might have told you if they hadn’t been wiped off the face of the earth.

So guess what? We’re all indigenous Tasmanians now. And so we get these same sto-ries centuries too late. Don’t we?

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

All I can figure is that in order to stay sane, even if it is impossible, even if all is lost, I’ll need to try, as Stephen Best is doing, to keep trying to re-wire the human brain.

Keep fighting those bastards, as Tito Gerrasi, author of Unrepentant Radical Educator says: “Keep fighting those bastards any way you can.”

Or just follow the high priests of black hole nihilism, “accept”, and jump into the black hole.

On sept 11, I instantly knew the accelerating pedal towards teotwawki had just been pushed to the floor (to use an oil metaphor). No matter what the truth that we will never know is.Certainly not any official version.

my thought of the week: Hope is like herpes (I know both). When you go after it to extirpate it, microscopic bits hide in the most inaccessible/improbable terminations and escape capture. Hope then erupts in crisis bringing thoughts of eternity. How incredibly strange to be human.

@david higham, yes, but it does state right in the piece that these are among a variety of social strategies that lead to survival success. The fact that other animals are “like us” in some ways (as opposed to being unfeeling automatons) is entirely to be expected, despite the fact that it is being presented as a novelty for our consideration.

We can be feeling automatons rather than unfeeling ones; nothing in a deterministic universe obviates feelings, I don’t think. Plenty of marketing psychologists, politicians, spies and other such adepts know how to push those emotional buttons.. they do it because it works fairly reliably.

While we’re not immune to “feelings”, the INTJ crowd (a minority of 1-2% of the population but possibly a majority of commenters here) would appear to have some capacity for distancing themselves emotionally, when needed, in order to analyse a situation: the exceptions that prove the rule, I would say.

Woody Woodworth: i know Judy Wood’s “evidence” well. And i know her attitude towards anything which doesn’t fit her narrative. Sorry, but huge amounts of steel from the WTC buildings did NOT evaporate.

Lidia – You’re amazing. I couldn’t remember Marvin or Securacom or half the stuff that was mistakenly included in a central command file I requested in 2004. Back then I was working on lists concerning DOD explosive materials that could be stolen & used on a nuclear plant attack.

Honestly I was going to throw it all out last month until Tom made a comment that got me thinking. First I will be safe and see if my mentioning the docs here gets any response from the NSA. My friend in NYC says they must have the originals to be legally valid.

INFANTTYRONE – Are you familiar with Montezuma Costa Rica? I was a volunteer ranger in Cabo Blanco 1989. Nicholas Wessberg who helped establish the first national park in Costa Rica got hacked to death by machete wielding gold miners! Nick was murdered in his effort to create Corcovado Nat’l park on the Osa Penisula. I’m hoping to return!

Today I’m working on Nuclear waste removal that has been in limbo ever since the decision to close the nuclear power plant at Crystal River Fl — also known as CR3 — Concerned people living nearby are worried about their safety.

Due to transport problems the nuclear material that’s already been on site for several years will likely remain there for many more, so I’m trying to get more officials to approve the work orders.

The Crystal River nuclear plant neighborhood is dotted with warning towers, just in case something ever goes wrong. Since going off-line in late 2009, the nuclear rods that once powered the plant have been kept in a cooling pool, and there they’ll stay, say officials, for the foreseeable future. Until more environmental impact reviews are done.

After five years underwater, they’ll be removed and placed in dry storage, encased in thick-walled casks which will remain on the property for 40 to 60 years. I say that’s too long. Tampa Bay area residents have been calling to “Remove it completely, not just have it sit there!” Angry messages on our recorded lines.

Duke Energy Spokesman Mike Hughes says the site is by no means being abandoned. He says eventually about 200 workers will handle the decommission and decontamination process. Then a handful will maintain it. “We will have environmental monitoring, we will have security. We will have a very definitive plan of how to monitor from the environmental perspective,” he said.

Still, local government officials say they share the public’s concern. So much gets overlooked here in Washington, until someone decides to care.

The cracks, or delamination as we call it, were found twice in the containment building’s walls. We don’t exactly instill a level of confidence by not returning calls.

Commissioner Joe Meek, the Citrus County Commission Chair, believes the energy company will do what’s required, but “it is concerning,” he said. “Again, I do think though, there are mechanisms in place — thankfully by regulatory agencies — with regards to safety.”

In fact, Progress / Duke Energy officials say the nuclear fuel rods housed on-site will not be stored in the damaged part of the plant, but rather in a separate area yet to be determined. If it were not for Guy & NBL even I would think we had decades to slowly deal with matters. Fast action on corporate requests but not much concern for normal citizens. If anyone is thinking it is safe to buy a winter home near Crystal River…think twice about what your real estate agent does not know is simmering in the containment ponds.

MARK AUSTIN
I know where Montezuma is but don’t get to Puntarenas much.
Been to the beach areas about 5-6 times, but usually too hot for me.
I’m been in CR for about 6.5 years and have lived in Pozos (de Santa Ana), then Escazu, then Puente de Piedra, Grecia (centro), Atenas, and now back to Grecia, but up the hill in San Isidro. Got close to Corcovado once on a trip to check out rental houses in Alfombra and Perez Zeledon (aka San Isidro de El General).