fusillade762:So they'll have plenty of time to play cards during their paid vacations

Vacations are extra fun when you have to worry about whether you'll have a job to come back to, huh?

Cops are placed on paid leave because they haven't yet been charged with any violations, either criminal or internal. Being on paid leave means the agency still has control over you and can order you in at any time, like to be questioned by internal affairs. It's a way to temporarily get the cop off the street and still be able to control him. Once charges are filed, either internal charges or criminal charges, the leave will become non-paid.

CruiserTwelve:fusillade762: So they'll have plenty of time to play cards during their paid vacations

Vacations are extra fun when you have to worry about whether you'll have a job to come back to, huh?

Cops are placed on paid leave because they haven't yet been charged with any violations, either criminal or internal. Being on paid leave means the agency still has control over you and can order you in at any time, like to be questioned by internal affairs. It's a way to temporarily get the cop off the street and still be able to control him. Once charges are filed, either internal charges or criminal charges, the leave will become non-paid.

Alright. Thanks for the 411.

Would you care to weigh in on the article? Or maybe shed some inside light on the practices of cops on patrol during slow times? I'd be interested....

AverageAmericanGuy:Meanwhile we're all reading Fark at work and no one seems to give a shiat about that. I guess double standards and hypocrisy is still okay, eh subby?

My employer gives consent. My employer is not funded with tax dollars.I'm particular sensitive to hypocrisy (although it took me 4 tries to spell it *facepalm*), and think this criticism doesnt qualify as hypocrisy. If it were city road construction crews sloughing off, I'd feel differently about it being hypocritical.

Frederick:Would you care to weigh in on the article? Or maybe shed some inside light on the practices of cops on patrol during slow times? I'd be interested....

I used to see cops sleep or read a book during slow midnight shifts, but most cop cars have GPS so you can't get away with sitting in one place for very long any more. I don't know what the guys in the article were doing, but how did they get to sit in one place for three hours? In a city like Phoenix, you'd think they'd never go that long without a call.

I've head cops rationalize such behavior by pointing out that firefighters get to sleep on company time when they're not actively doing something. Not sure if I agree with that or not.

Therevis nothing wrong with taking a break- but the cops that I know are cops becausevthey want to be cops- they love their jobs and they would rather be busy and be doing shiate than sit in their car. Any cop that is happy to sit in their car and play cards and collect a paycheck is not in the right profession.

CruiserTwelve:I used to see cops sleep or read a book during slow midnight shifts, but most cop cars have GPS so you can't get away with sitting in one place for very long any more. I don't know what the guys in the article were doing, but how did they get to sit in one place for three hours? In a city like Phoenix, you'd think they'd never go that long without a call.

I would guess that when they created the administration for the Downtown Operations Unit, dedicated to crowd and traffic control, they did so shoddily. They probably don't report to the same administration as regular police, nor answer criminal calls.

They probably figured out after awhile that, hey -- we never turn in any reports on non-game nights, and nobody's said anything about it. I'll bet we could get away with playing cards all night instead of patrolling.

That unit was expanded, it went 24-hours a day (it was limited hours), and its patrol area was expanded, with a primary goal of getting the homeless off the streets and into shelters. It's not limited to game-night patrols like the article says.

That change in scope likely led to a change in administration and procedures, and these two guys probably realized nobody's watching them when the sportsball teams aren't playing.

I'd be okay with the cops sitting playing cards and smoking cigars as long as they were responding to calls when dispatched if it was the middle of the night; I don't know what people think cops DO at 3 a.m. when there's no active calls besides patrol and hang out at the 7-11 and try to stay alert.

Now that said, cops are not security guards, and I agree with Cruiser12; I can't imagine city cops not having one single call in three hours, first of all; and second, they should have broken off every couple of hours at least to change location. It's pulling crap like that that gets security guards keys to hit, and cops can have to do it too, as any city dispatcher whose had to do an hourly roll call can tell you.

croesius:"Phoenix City Manager Ed Zuercher said after reviewing the video. "I'd also tell people when they see that, don't wait for months to let us know." "

Yea, don't wait months collecting evidence, proving that it is a long-running trend of wasting taxpayers money...tell us immediately so we can say "oh, it was just this one time, no problem"

Yeah. That's the goal.

If they have any competent administrators, they would be able to tell after the first couple of instances that the fault lies in a lack of oversight, and the admins should be able to come up with a way to eliminate whatever loophole these guys found.

You don't have to let it go on for a year just to prove it can go on for a year. Some admins are actually kind of smart and can figure out how it broke the first time.

Lenny_da_Hog:Gyrfalcon: I don't know what people think cops DO at 3 a.m. when there's no active calls besides patrol and hang out at the 7-11 and try to stay alert.

Patrolling is a pretty important function in a downtown area.

....which I said.

But there's nothing wrong with taking a break...just not for three hours. And I find it hard to believe their radio didn't go off even once. Did anyone check with their dispatcher to see if they were on pager? (Which is what my guys used to call it when they were taking a nap and had their radios off)(But they were security guards so it didn't matter as much)

Gyrfalcon:Lenny_da_Hog: Gyrfalcon: I don't know what people think cops DO at 3 a.m. when there's no active calls besides patrol and hang out at the 7-11 and try to stay alert.

Patrolling is a pretty important function in a downtown area.

....which I said.

But there's nothing wrong with taking a break...just not for three hours. And I find it hard to believe their radio didn't go off even once. Did anyone check with their dispatcher to see if they were on pager? (Which is what my guys used to call it when they were taking a nap and had their radios off)(But they were security guards so it didn't matter as much)

Also, they didn't have reports to turn in from patrol? No homeless people? No stop-and-question incidents? No supervisor noticed that they turned in 1/3-less paperwork than every other patrol car in the Downtown unit?

That's why I think this was an administrative hole they found. Someone didn't finish the flow-chart or job duty descriptions when they set up the expanded Downtown Operations Unit.

Here in the OC the cops used to stop in parking lots at night with 2 cars parked side by side but pointed in opposite directions so they could talk without using the radio. If you worked odd hours you'd see their little coffee klatches all the time but the advent of real time GPS put a stop to that.

Lenny_da_Hog:That's why I think this was an administrative hole they found. Someone didn't finish the flow-chart or job duty descriptions when they set up the expanded Downtown Operations Unit.

Yup.

"we need a special squad because when the Arizona Diamondbacks or Phoenix Suns are playing it's busy! wait? what? Of course the squad will still be on duty when the Arizona Diamondbacks or Phoenix Suns are NOT playing... Duh..."

Lenny_da_Hog:croesius: "Phoenix City Manager Ed Zuercher said after reviewing the video. "I'd also tell people when they see that, don't wait for months to let us know." "

Yea, don't wait months collecting evidence, proving that it is a long-running trend of wasting taxpayers money...tell us immediately so we can say "oh, it was just this one time, no problem"

Yeah. That's the goal.

If they have any competent administrators, they would be able to tell after the first couple of instances that the fault lies in a lack of oversight, and the admins should be able to come up with a way to eliminate whatever loophole these guys found.

You don't have to let it go on for a year just to prove it can go on for a year. Some admins are actually kind of smart and can figure out how it broke the first time.

I agree, competent admins should be able to detect this kind of thing. But shouldn't they also be able to detect that several officers were sitting on their asses, not moving, not responding to any calls, for months at a time? Do they even ask officers what they do during their shifts?

"So how was the night? Do anything?""Nope, absolutely nothing happened at all anywhere requiring our attention"

And, for the record, I am a strong supporter of law enforcement, when they do their job properly.

Well, they're never getting any slack from their supervisor again, ever, I'd suspect. That's riiiiiiiight up there against the line of instant-firing territory, leaning forward and swaying unsteadily. They can maybe get away with the "we were just waiting for a radio call, we didn't know we were supposed to keep moving when not on an active call" excuse once, that's probably it. Even excusing it on the grounds of poor training rather than personal/professional failure on their part is pretty borderline.

CruiserTwelve:Frederick: Would you care to weigh in on the article? Or maybe shed some inside light on the practices of cops on patrol during slow times? I'd be interested....

I used to see cops sleep or read a book during slow midnight shifts, but most cop cars have GPS so you can't get away with sitting in one place for very long any more. I don't know what the guys in the article were doing, but how did they get to sit in one place for three hours? In a city like Phoenix, you'd think they'd never go that long without a call.

I've head cops rationalize such behavior by pointing out that firefighters get to sleep on company time when they're not actively doing something. Not sure if I agree with that or not.

I'm with Prophet of Loss and J. Frank Parnell on this one. I'd be happy if we paid the cops to sleep on park benches until they need to stop a murder or investigate the theft of my Creedence tape. Better than them wandering around looking for people to bother.

ftaHe watched 3 On Your Side's video and said it speaks volumes, particularly when the city of Phoenix is in a budget crunch and the police department is demanding more money.

Idunno. Phoenix has about 1.5 million residents. In a lot of cities that size, the patrol cars have GPS. If that's the case in Phoenix, then admin knew what was going on and the video also "speaks volumes" about admin. Yes, the cops are guilty of misdemeanor stupid. But I think the real question is whether they failed to respond to any calls. Yes, they'll be held accountable for embarrassing admin. But was the public's safety ever jeopardized? Of course, none of that matters, though, because "...the police department is demanding more money" and these guys just mucked that up, and so they are going to have to pay.

the real racist:At least they weren't drinking, so if they were to respond to a call, they wouldn't be inebriated.

Does seem a little odd that things would be so slow they could take 3 hour breaks without a single call.

I might spend most of my slow nights farking off, but even on a slow night I've never gone three hours without a call, and I don't start work till 11pm

In a larger city, cops tend to be assigned to certain area's so that they're dispersed enough to respond when a call does come in from a given area. It's entirely likely these guys nailed a cush area with a very low crime rate / traffic.Sure, there are constant police calls, but in that car's range of operation? Not likely.

It's very typical for a large part of the US, for a cop car to sit in any given place for a couple hours at a time. This wasn't a donut shop or gas station / diner.

You can only patrol so much on a slow night without the public pitching a fit about how often the cop cars are slowly driving by.

AverageAmericanGuy:Meanwhile we're all reading Fark at work and no one seems to give a shiat about that. I guess double standards and hypocrisy is still okay, eh subby?

Done in one.

Frederick:AverageAmericanGuy: Meanwhile we're all reading Fark at work and no one seems to give a shiat about that. I guess double standards and hypocrisy is still okay, eh subby?

My employer gives consent. My employer is not funded with tax dollars.I'm particular sensitive to hypocrisy (although it took me 4 tries to spell it *facepalm*), and think this criticism doesnt qualify as hypocrisy. If it were city road construction crews sloughing off, I'd feel differently about it being hypocritical.

Your anecdote is not necessarily relative to Fark at large, where even a good amount of our headlines refer to farking at your workplace. Really, it's its own meme, and true enough that someone called out for avoiding productive work does stand out as hypocritical(in a community sense, not an individual sense), or at least hyper-critical.

What's more, I have AAG flagged as anti-cop. If even someone with that flag can stand up for the cops in this scenario, it's really not necessarily as bad as everyone is trying to make it sound.

Yeah, if they're receiving calls and not responding that's one thing, but we don't know that, and cannot legitimately choose to Believe that.

CruiserTwelve:Frederick: Would you care to weigh in on the article? Or maybe shed some inside light on the practices of cops on patrol during slow times? I'd be interested....

I used to see cops sleep or read a book during slow midnight shifts, but most cop cars have GPS so you can't get away with sitting in one place for very long any more. I don't know what the guys in the article were doing, but how did they get to sit in one place for three hours? In a city like Phoenix, you'd think they'd never go that long without a call.

I've head cops rationalize such behavior by pointing out that firefighters get to sleep on company time when they're not actively doing something. Not sure if I agree with that or not.

/Why not? What's the difference? Both are jobs that deal with emergencies that they get called out on. Do you expect firefighters to drive around in their fire trucks looking for fire all the time? Face it, the guy was just picking on cops. It's not like everyone in other jobs doesn't get time to fark off a little bit. You expect them to drive around for 8 hours non stop?

Billy Bathsalt:I'm with Prophet of Loss and J. Frank Parnell on this one. I'd be happy if we paid the cops to sleep on park benches until they need to stop a murder or investigate the theft of my Creedence tape. Better than them wandering around looking for people to bother.

/I totally agree. And as a retired cop, i can say i have worked many third shifts, and seconds, that after you check businesses, there is NOTHING going on. No calls, and no traffic. Esp early in the morning. And the traffic you do see is just your average joe going home from work. Would you rather have them pulling everyone over out of boredom? Least they were minding their own business and not farking with people for the fun of it. Man, there is no making you people happy. Cops pull you over, you get pissed at them, even if YOU are the one doing something wrong. They pull off to take a break and have a bit of non stress fun, and you biatch. Make up your minds. Would you rather have them circling like vultures pouncing on every car they see drive by? They put their lives on the line responding to emergencies that most of the public would run from, including fire and crazy people that are armed, and everyone gets all butt hurt if they take a few hours to park and relax a bit.

Bit'O'Gristle:And as a retired cop, i can say i have worked many third shifts, and seconds, that after you check businesses, there is NOTHING going on. No calls, and no traffic. Esp early in the morning.

FTFA

"I got home one time a little bit after 7 p.m. and they left a little bit after 10 p.m.," another resident said.

Residents said they arrived home about 8:30 p.m. to find the police vehicle parked on top of the garage and it didn't leave until after 10:15 p.m.

log_jammin:Bit'O'Gristle: Do you expect firefighters to drive around in their fire trucks looking for fire all the time?

a faulty electrical outlet doesn't decide to delay starting a fire because a fire truck drives by at regular intervals.

/True, but as i said, you can't expect them to drive around all shift. If i had pulled that shiat on duty, i would have been standing tall before my LT, explaining why i put 200 miles on the squad car. The general operation of a squad is, (esp at night) you check closed businesses, do some random patrol, maybe run some radar, and park somewhere waiting for a call. I don't care if they were playing cards or singing campfire songs. They were awake, and ready to respond to emergencies. Now, if they had IGNORED calls, i would have an issue. But seeing as how every other "emergency" profession gets to fark off and watch tv, play cards, or whatever, I'm not going to get all derpy on a few cops who are just tying to stay awake on slow nights. Sounds to me its just a few people who don't generally like cops biatching to the news trying to start shiat.

Bit'O'Gristle:/True, but as i said, you can't expect them to drive around all shift. If i had pulled that shiat on duty, i would have been standing tall before my LT, explaining why i put 200 miles on the squad car. The general operation of a squad is, (esp at night) you check closed businesses, do some random patrol, maybe run some radar, and park somewhere waiting for a call. I don't care if they were playing cards or singing campfire songs. They were awake, and ready to respond to emergencies. Now, if they had IGNORED calls, i would have an issue. But seeing as how every other "emergency" profession gets to fark off and watch tv, play cards, or whatever, I'm not going to get all derpy on a few cops who are just tying to stay awake on slow nights. Sounds to me its just a few people who don't generally like cops biatching to the news trying to start shiat.

No, they should have proceeded to the point of highest crime in their area and vigilantly looked for suspicious behaviors, such as open air drug dealing, prostitution, gang activity, unusual loitering near stores or businesses, etc. etc. etc.

They don't have to drive a vehicle to do their jobs but they do have to focus on what going on around them and NOT a hand of poker or solitaire.