Climate change and galactic Position?

I'm new here so I have not had time to read all posts yet. The question is why is it that no one yet has addressed this aspect of the topic . We are taught that the position of our planet in the solar system affects the planets climate, ( ie winter/summer ) So could you also apply the same to our galactic position?

Ice core samples and, organic matter brought up in polar regions show many changes in our climate Our solar system passes through the galactic plain every 13,000 years or so. Yet it seems that no one adds this data into the discussion . It would seem to me that if the records we now have of climate change were compared to our galactic position at the time of the change we could have a much clearer picture of this subject.

Now I should inform you all that I dropped out of H.S. twice in my senior year over credits that i received from a FLA. H.S. would not count towards my graduation .The last straw for me was when the school in OH. told me that a credit in introductory to physics I had from Fla. DID NOT COUNT as a science credit. At that point I decided that any paperwork issued by morons would be nothing to be proud of. lol

mygor wrote:I'm new here so I have not had time to read all posts yet. The question is why is it that no one yet has addressed this aspect of the topic . We are taught that the position of our planet in the solar system affects the planets climate, ( ie winter/summer ) So could you also apply the same to our galactic position?

Ice core samples and, organic matter brought up in polar regions show many changes in our climate Our solar system passes through the galactic plain every 13,000 years or so. Yet it seems that no one adds this data into the discussion . It would seem to me that if the records we now have of climate change were compared to our galactic position at the time of the change we could have a much clearer picture of this subject.

Now I should inform you all that I dropped out of H.S. twice in my senior year over credits that i received from a FLA. H.S. would not count towards my graduation .The last straw for me was when the school in OH. told me that a credit in introductory to physics I had from Fla. DID NOT COUNT as a science credit. At that point I decided that any paperwork issued by morons would be nothing to be proud of. lol

Hi Mygor, and welcome to the fray. Don't worry about being illiterate, most people in here are. But some are quite literate, like Professor Parrot Face, and Wake Me Up, and even old Gass Guzzler and that Plumber guy appear to be quite educated. But don't let their education fool you. They have a lot of knowledge, but not necessarily a lot of intelligence [which enables them to use their knowledge to understand things they weren't taught in school]. I think as long as you can use your computer to search the Internet, and you like to read, you can figure out Global Warming on your own. You came to the right place to get some good insight about what to research, because we talk about everything, regardless of how stupid or irrelevant it really is.

Your question is an interesting one, which I can't answer directly. Maybe the Professor or the sleep guy can. I can tell you that the earth's orbit changes over time, in repeating cycles. That is well known and is called the Milankovitch Effect. And the changing of our orbit does affect our climate. The only real question is whether our position in the Galaxy has anything to do with our position in orbit. It stands to reason that it does affect us, because we are part of a galaxy that is held together by some force [gravitational, I think]. Perhaps that force fluctuates over time, based on where we happen to be flying in the galaxy.

But anyway, the earth is receiving less energy from the sun each year, due to the Milankovitch Effect, so we should be cooling ever so slightly each year. But instead, we are warming every so slightly each year instead. And that's what all the fuss is about. Why are we warming, when there is not energy source [supposedly, according to the idiotic Deniers] behind the warming?

Of course, the answer to that is greenhouse gases, slightly warming the air we live in, which doesn't allow the earth to cool off as much as it would if the air were a little cooler. So the earth gradually gets warmer and warmer, as that heat builds up in the ground.

Welcome to Climate Change Debate, where you don't need no fancy degree or no stinking diploma. But do get your GED, because you gonna need that to get a decent job.

Greenery wrote;...Gass Guzzler and that Plumber guy appear to be quite educated. But don't let their education fool you...

Well, looks like I fooled Geenery! Welcome fellow dropout.

Buckle up. Your about to learn more than high school could ever teach you.I don't have the golden diploma either, and to be honest I'm damn proud of what I've accomplished without it. I own and operate my own business and my income is top 10% nationwide. I'd hire you today just because of your first post. It shows that you are unwilling to just drink the kool-aid and be spoon fed your morning muffin. You admit your shortcomings, think it through, and then ask, ready to learn. Perfect. Some of the more educated clowns on here...if they were fish they'd have mouth full of hooks. Let me tell you something, Al Gore is a horse turd hypocrite , but that dude can set a hook.As far as galactic positioning? I'm not the guy to answer that one, but my instinct would say no possible effect on climate. Someone will be along shortly to tell me I'm wrong.....

By the way, do you think that temperatures are rising in your back yard? You still in Ohio?

Greenery still hasn't answered what he thinks is going on in his backyard in Michigan. These 9 graphs are from different reporting stations ~100 miles apart. You can't read the year but they're all 1880 through 2014. The 2 showing the most warming are in major metro areas, the Kalamazoo hospital and Ann Arbor Michigan. Greenery thinks we're all going to die a fiery death real soon. Why?
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Greenery wrote;...Gass Guzzler and that Plumber guy appear to be quite educated. But don't let their education fool you...

Well, looks like I fooled Geenery! Welcome fellow dropout.

Buckle up. Your about to learn more than high school could ever teach you.I don't have the golden diploma either, and to be honest I'm damn proud of what I've accomplished without it. I own and operate my own business and my income is top 10% nationwide. I'd hire you today just because of your first post. It shows that you are unwilling to just drink the kool-aid and be spoon fed your morning muffin. You admit your shortcomings, think it through, and then ask, ready to learn. Perfect. Some of the more educated clowns on here...if they were fish they'd have mouth full of hooks. Let me tell you something, Al Gore is a horse turd hypocrite , but that dude can set a hook.As far as galactic positioning? I'm not the guy to answer that one, but my instinct would say no possible effect on climate. Someone will be along shortly to tell me I'm wrong.....

By the way, do you think that temperatures are rising in your back yard? You still in Ohio?

Greenery still hasn't answered what he thinks is going on in his backyard in Michigan. These 9 graphs are from different reporting stations ~100 miles apart. You can't read the year but they're all 1880 through 2014. The 2 showing the most warming are in major metro areas, the Kalamazoo hospital and Ann Arbor Michigan. Greenery thinks we're all going to die a fiery death real soon. Why?

Not real soon, JizzGuzzler. All indications are that our average temperature is climbing at about 0.16C/decade. At that rate it will take quite a while to kill you off. No, my concern is that our planet will eventually become uninhabitable. When is anyone's guess. But just because we aren't going to die in our lifetime because of Global Warming is no reason to ignore it. Our ignore-ance will eventually kill everything, because the more CO2 we add to the air, the hotter it will eventually get.

But on the other hand, people are already dying from the affects of Global Warming and subsequent Climate Change, which is burning people up and killing them outright from heat. So some people are actually dying a fiery death.

But on the other hand, people are already dying from the affects of Global Warming and subsequent Climate Change, which is burning people up and killing them outright from heat. So some people are actually dying a fiery death.

I have attached the Palmer Heat Wave Index. Now this is only the US, but I guess the effects of CO2 are only in other places. Ever notice that? Somehow the "big global warming evidence" is always somewhere in a land far away.

Your graphs are pretty . However they also lack info. Over the past few decades NASA shows similar temp increases on every planet in the solar system. This is why I asked the first question. If humans are the sole reason for climate change then how does this affect the rest of the system?

Our planet spins on a central axis. The warmest area is the equator which happens to be the farthest point away from the center of the rotating mass . Just like a cars tire treads Are the same . Is it just friction? Or does the fact that they are both at the farthest point of a rotating mass factor into the equation? Right now our solar system is in the area that is the farthest point away from the center of the rotating mass of the galaxy.

Ice cores also reveal that as far as CO2 goes our planet is at a low point in history. I would propose that there is a better way of dealing with your carbon fears than taxes. A much better way would be to utilize industrial hemp. The oil from the seed can be used as a much cleaner burning replacement for diesel fuel. At the same time giving farmers 2 additional crops to sell. Hemp fibers can be used to create Cloth as tough as canvas , or as smooth as silk. thus locking down the carbon contain in it for several years. The woody core of the plant can be used to make hempcrete Which can lock down carbon for centuries eventually turning into limestone. While giving a much cleaner air quality to the building than conventional construction materials.

Carbon taxes as written only make the top 1% richer and the rest of us poorer.It was recently revealed that just 1 of Al Gores homes has a carbon footprint that is 400% higher than the average home in America. The real Inconvenient truth is he should practice what he preaches .

In closing I may be an under employed illiterate, I am not an idiot! lol

I am sure that we won't solve this problem, and am preparing for my own family's survival, by investing in a retreat that is off grid and away from other people. That way we [or whoever is left of my family] will have somewhere to go when things get rough. So you guys can categorize me as a Survivalist, who has given up hope on humanity solving this problem. As far as I am concerned, it is up to each individual to prepare his own way through this. Those who do nothing will suffer. Those who prepare might get killed also. But at least if you are trying to preserve your family, then you should be allowed to return to earth, as long as there are vehicles [bodies] available for your return. And as far as I can tell, those who do nothing to preserve their own family, will have no vehicle available for their return, and will not be allowed back.

12 days later....Greenery writes this today...

Not real soon. All indications are that our average temperature is climbing at about 0.16C/decade. At that rate it will take quite a while to kill you off. No, my concern is that our planet will eventually become uninhabitable.

Which is it? Please explain yourself.

gasguzzler, calling the jet stream the "Norwegian jet stream" is a bigoted statement.-James-Edited on 21-08-2017 19:17

mygor wrote:Ice cores also reveal that as far as CO2 goes our planet is at a low point in history.

Not the Ice core data I have seen.

OK i maybe wrong about that. However I can also see a convergence of highs and lows that could fit into Galactic year model proposed in my original post. I wish I had enough processing power and the software to compare the two.

spot wrote:You do know that a Galactic year is about 250 million years long?

Yes. But how can you leave that out of the data. I can also see the BIG flaw in the mauna loa data in the graph. Being only 1 of 5 volcanoes in the region they output more CO2 than any power plant. and as far as I know we can't stop the emissions nor do we cause them.So should we tell Al Gore to tax the volcanoes lol.

Also the activity of these volcanoes Could be affected by our position in the galaxy Are they more or less active when we are above or below the galactic plain. My point is we do not yet know enough to say so with any certainty. If we banned all internal combustion engines, closed all the factories, and power plants the overall effect on the atmosphere would be a small one in the overall big picture.We do not have enough data yet and, some of it is not even considered . We can not allow any government to tax a natural substance that we have no control over. It would only affect our wallets.

Without CO2 there is no ozone, no trees, no plants , no atmosphere. there is a balance there that we do not yet understand. all I have done here is introduce a factor that has not yet been covered.

mygor wrote:Your graphs are pretty . However they also lack info. Over the past few decades NASA shows similar temp increases on every planet in the solar system. This is why I asked the first question. If humans are the sole reason for climate change then how does this affect the rest of the system?

I'm not sure if other planets have warmed or not, but I am aware of the Denier talking point saying they have. That's intentional propaganda put out by the Church of AGW Denial. Their goal with propaganda like that is to create doubt in people's mind about whether humans are actually causing Climate Change. They want people to doubt that, because they want everyone to continue using their products like there's no tomorrow. Because they are getting rich, and as far as they are concerned, you can eat shit and die. They don't care about you, or anyone else. All they care about is their immediate family and money. But one thing is for sure, we are not affecting the other planet's temperature, whether people are causing the problem or not.

mygor wrote:Our planet spins on a central axis. The warmest area is the equator which happens to be the farthest point away from the center of the rotating mass . Just like a cars tire treads Are the same . Is it just friction? Or does the fact that they are both at the farthest point of a rotating mass factor into the equation? Right now our solar system is in the area that is the farthest point away from the center of the rotating mass of the galaxy.

The reason the equatorial region is warmer than the rest of the planet is because the sun's rays strike there at a 90 degree angle, heating a little more per square inch than everywhere else, where the sun's rays come in at a different angle. I don't think there is any friction involved, and I have no clue where we are located in the galaxy. I get this visual of roller skating when I was a kid, and being on the end of a whip, and going flying down the rink wide open after being whipped around like that. lol

mygor wrote:Ice cores also reveal that as far as CO2 goes our planet is at a low point in history. I would propose that there is a better way of dealing with your carbon fears than taxes. A much better way would be to utilize industrial hemp. The oil from the seed can be used as a much cleaner burning replacement for diesel fuel. At the same time giving farmers 2 additional crops to sell. Hemp fibers can be used to create Cloth as tough as canvas , or as smooth as silk. thus locking down the carbon contain in it for several years. The woody core of the plant can be used to make hempcrete Which can lock down carbon for centuries eventually turning into limestone. While giving a much cleaner air quality to the building than conventional construction materials.

The CO2 concentration is actually at a high point, according to the ice cores. And I like your idea for solving the problem with cannabis. Everyone should grow ten plants each year. And consume it all, including the stems and seeds. That sounds like a lot, but when you are trying to build a house with it, you will be begging your neighbors for their left over stalks. I can see us all, hanging out in bamboo looking cannabis huts.

But it would take too long to sequester that much CO2 with just growing plants. They will eventually store the excess CO2 back into the ground, but it will take thousands of years. And meanwhile our average temperature continues to rise about 0.016C. That will kill the planet in a few hundred years, if you figure that a 5 or 6 degree C rise from where we are now will wipe the world out. The only real solution is to completely stop producing CO2, except for breathing. And figure out how to sequester CO2 mechanically and effeciently.

mygor wrote:

Carbon taxes as written only make the top 1% richer and the rest of us poorer.It was recently revealed that just 1 of Al Gores homes has a carbon footprint that is 400% higher than the average home in America. The real Inconvenient truth is he should practice what he preaches .

They need to take Al Gore out and just shoot him, lol. I agree that a carbon tax will make the poor even worse off, and will make the middle class begin to live like the poor. Of course, the 1 percenters won't feel a thing, in comparison. But they are currently the ones complaining the most, because they won't be able to make as much money as before.

I see it eventually getting better though. People will suffer for a while, as they get used to living a different type of life, that doesn't involve racing off to work each morning in their gas guzzler. Electric cars will replace gasoline driving cars, and the electricity will come from reprehensible resources, that don't produce CO2 or CH4. Those are the two big things we have to accomplish, and that will solve most of the problem.

mygor wrote:In closing I may be an under employed illiterate, I am not an idiot! lol

It's other people who really get to decide that. They may, or may not tell you what their decision is though. But they do tell everyone else. You're not illiterate, anyway, since you can obviously read, write, and think. But of course, some people consider you that if you didn't graduate from high school, so they won't employ you.

Ya got all the cred to be an AGW denier liar whiner, who took no science chemistry astronomy physics algebra or pre-calc in an unearned hi skule DEE-plooomaa.

Please show me where I have denied that climate change is happening. I have in fact said only that there is data missing. How do you think people can make informed decisions without all the data? How many of the predictions made in "An inconvenient Truth" actually happened? All that I have done is raise a question that could have an impact but no one has looked at. You sound off like one of those antifa Clowns who think there are Russians and nazi's behind every tree.. And before you go calling me alt-right. I have been a registered Democrat my whole adult life. 40+ years I am just tired of all the lies, and the fact that they no longer know how to balance a check book.

mygor wrote:Your graphs are pretty . However they also lack info. Over the past few decades NASA shows similar temp increases on every planet in the solar system. This is why I asked the first question. If humans are the sole reason for climate change then how does this affect the rest of the system?

I'm not sure if other planets have warmed or not, but I am aware of the Denier talking point saying they have. That's intentional propaganda put out by the Church of AGW Denial. Their goal with propaganda like that is to create doubt in people's mind about whether humans are actually causing Climate Change. They want people to doubt that, because they want everyone to continue using their products like there's no tomorrow. Because they are getting rich, and as far as they are concerned, you can eat shit and die. They don't care about you, or anyone else. All they care about is their immediate family and money. But one thing is for sure, we are not affecting the other planet's temperature, whether people are causing the problem or not.

mygor wrote:Our planet spins on a central axis. The warmest area is the equator which happens to be the farthest point away from the center of the rotating mass . Just like a cars tire treads Are the same . Is it just friction? Or does the fact that they are both at the farthest point of a rotating mass factor into the equation? Right now our solar system is in the area that is the farthest point away from the center of the rotating mass of the galaxy.

The reason the equatorial region is warmer than the rest of the planet is because the sun's rays strike there at a 90 degree angle, heating a little more per square inch than everywhere else, where the sun's rays come in at a different angle. I don't think there is any friction involved, and I have no clue where we are located in the galaxy. I get this visual of roller skating when I was a kid, and being on the end of a whip, and going flying down the rink wide open after being whipped around like that. lol

mygor wrote:Ice cores also reveal that as far as CO2 goes our planet is at a low point in history. I would propose that there is a better way of dealing with your carbon fears than taxes. A much better way would be to utilize industrial hemp. The oil from the seed can be used as a much cleaner burning replacement for diesel fuel. At the same time giving farmers 2 additional crops to sell. Hemp fibers can be used to create Cloth as tough as canvas , or as smooth as silk. thus locking down the carbon contain in it for several years. The woody core of the plant can be used to make hempcrete Which can lock down carbon for centuries eventually turning into limestone. While giving a much cleaner air quality to the building than conventional construction materials.

The CO2 concentration is actually at a high point, according to the ice cores. And I like your idea for solving the problem with cannabis. Everyone should grow ten plants each year. And consume it all, including the stems and seeds. That sounds like a lot, but when you are trying to build a house with it, you will be begging your neighbors for their left over stalks. I can see us all, hanging out in bamboo looking cannabis huts.

But it would take too long to sequester that much CO2 with just growing plants. They will eventually store the excess CO2 back into the ground, but it will take thousands of years. And meanwhile our average temperature continues to rise about 0.016C. That will kill the planet in a few hundred years, if you figure that a 5 or 6 degree C rise from where we are now will wipe the world out. The only real solution is to completely stop producing CO2, except for breathing. And figure out how to sequester CO2 mechanically and effeciently.

mygor wrote:

Carbon taxes as written only make the top 1% richer and the rest of us poorer.It was recently revealed that just 1 of Al Gores homes has a carbon footprint that is 400% higher than the average home in America. The real Inconvenient truth is he should practice what he preaches .

They need to take Al Gore out and just shoot him, lol. I agree that a carbon tax will make the poor even worse off, and will make the middle class begin to live like the poor. Of course, the 1 percenters won't feel a thing, in comparison. But they are currently the ones complaining the most, because they won't be able to make as much money as before.

I see it eventually getting better though. People will suffer for a while, as they get used to living a different type of life, that doesn't involve racing off to work each morning in their gas guzzler. Electric cars will replace gasoline driving cars, and the electricity will come from reprehensible resources, that don't produce CO2 or CH4. Those are the two big things we have to accomplish, and that will solve most of the problem.

mygor wrote:In closing I may be an under employed illiterate, I am not an idiot! lol

It's other people who really get to decide that. They may, or may not tell you what their decision is though. But they do tell everyone else. You're not illiterate, anyway, since you can obviously read, write, and think. But of course, some people consider you that if you didn't graduate from high school, so they won't employ you.

And now that I have legally called myself an idiot that has no concept of right and wrong. I will toss another giant monkey wrench into the gearbox of your minds. Nikola Tesla signed over all of his patents to Mr Westinghouse for nothing. WHY? Its because he considered alternating current a FAILED experiment. Our planet acts just like a transformer on the power pole. It collects energy and then discharges it through electrical storms.

What happens if you put a hole in that transformer and drain the oil from it? First thing is it overheats. Then it stops working, and possibly explodes. Now how much oil have we drained so far?That is a theory that will get your brain buzzing. lol

I am sure that we won't solve this problem, and am preparing for my own family's survival, by investing in a retreat that is off grid and away from other people. That way we [or whoever is left of my family] will have somewhere to go when things get rough. So you guys can categorize me as a Survivalist, who has given up hope on humanity solving this problem. As far as I am concerned, it is up to each individual to prepare his own way through this. Those who do nothing will suffer. Those who prepare might get killed also. But at least if you are trying to preserve your family, then you should be allowed to return to earth, as long as there are vehicles [bodies] available for your return. And as far as I can tell, those who do nothing to preserve their own family, will have no vehicle available for their return, and will not be allowed back.

12 days later....Greenery writes this today...

Not real soon. All indications are that our average temperature is climbing at about 0.16C/decade. At that rate it will take quite a while to kill you off. No, my concern is that our planet will eventually become uninhabitable.

Which is it? Please explain yourself.

Hey Jizz Guzzler, glad you asked that pointed question. Well, it's only pointed to someone like you, who doesn't realize that we are walking into a mess that just gets worse and worse as time goes on. It's not like everything is going to be fine one day, and everyone is dead the next.

Die-offs, like the one we are heading into, begin slowly, and gain momentum as things get progressively worse. We are currently living the dream though, so we can ignore the destruction that is already beginning, because it is happening elsewhere [kinda like what's going on in Afghanistan]. The heat isn't the issue for us, right now. And neither is the slowly rising sea. In fact, we have no climate related problems, if you ignore the forest fires going on [or contribute them to other things].

But before long, we will feel the pinch of climate change and our response to it, in our pocket book. That's because the rest of the world is going to get fed up with us living the high life, as we pollute their world. They will eventually boycott US products globally, and get us right back into the Paris Accord. When that happens, it will become even more difficult to make a change in your own personal ways, because there won't be much money around. Everyone will be broke, except of course the elite. My family will be off grid by then, and growing their own food in greenhouses and under netting in the summer. They will live in small houses that are heated and cooled efficiently. If possible, they will be building their homes partially or fully underground, to avoid problems like wildfire.

After many years, the world will begin to experience serious problems related to climate change. Food will become scarce, because of droughts and flooding. My family will eat from the fruit of their labor, because I will explain to them that they must go ahead and get away from reliance on the grocery stores. There will be widespread panic, when people realize that they are in trouble due to massive starvation. My family will be isolated from those who would not listen, and chose to maintain business as usual for as long as they could. So the roving bands of desperate people will not be a problem for my family.

My family will know that they must also prepare for other things that will happen, and expect those things. Those things include the eruption of a Caldera, which will cool the planet off, thus preventing the death of the planet [although it will kill just about everything], due to heat. My family will know about these things, because I teach them about these things.

I know about these things, because I am a shaman. I peek at the future through my own inner being, and also through prophecies given to us by the shamans before me. I recognize the danger that we are in, and will help all those who listen to me, make it through. I consider all those who listen to me as part of my family.

Meanwhile:Ya got all the cred to be an AGW denier liar whiner, who took no science chemistry astronomy physics algebra or pre-calc in an unearned hi skule DEE-plooomaa.

litesong, you took what he said out of context. "Please show me where I have denied that climate change is happening," is what he said. He doesn't sound like a Denier to me. He just sounds a little skeptical about whether they have it all figured out or not.

spot wrote:You do know that a Galactic year is about 250 million years long?

Yes. But how can you leave that out of the data. I can also see the BIG flaw in the mauna loa data in the graph. Being only 1 of 5 volcanoes in the region they output more CO2 than any power plant. and as far as I know we can't stop the emissions nor do we cause them.So should we tell Al Gore to tax the volcanoes lol.

Also the activity of these volcanoes Could be affected by our position in the galaxy Are they more or less active when we are above or below the galactic plain. My point is we do not yet know enough to say so with any certainty. If we banned all internal combustion engines, closed all the factories, and power plants the overall effect on the atmosphere would be a small one in the overall big picture.We do not have enough data yet and, some of it is not even considered . We can not allow any government to tax a natural substance that we have no control over. It would only affect our wallets.

Without CO2 there is no ozone, no trees, no plants , no atmosphere. there is a balance there that we do not yet understand. all I have done here is introduce a factor that has not yet been covered.

mygor, CO2 from volcanic eruptions are actually a constant. Their output varies slightly over time, but is pretty much constant. You can look at the data from ice cores, and see the volcanoes going off by looking at the increase in dust, but there isn't an increase in CO2 to go along with them. In fact, you can see a decrease in CO2 following a lot of their eruptions [which indicates a die-off occurred].

I had doubts about whether or not the scientists had it all figured out, so I studied the ice core data, and even built a Climate Model that quite accurately backcasts the climate.

It stands to reason that if the average temperature of the earth can be backcasted that accurately, that it can be forecast as accurately. If so, we are in real trouble, because the algorithm that is used indicates that our average global temperature will eventually increase over 50C from where it is. It will take hundreds or even thousands of years to get there, but everything will be dead before then, if nothing changes.

Meanwhile:Ya got all the cred to be an AGW denier liar whiner, who took no science chemistry astronomy physics algebra or pre-calc in an unearned hi skule DEE-plooomaa.

litesong, you took what he said out of context. "Please show me where I have denied that climate change is happening," is what he said. He doesn't sound like a Denier to me. He just sounds a little skeptical about whether they have it all figured out or not.

Thus the Megan Kelly quip. Anyhow make fun of this . I will be 60 this year. I have a 4Bdr/2bath home on 12 acres. Its paid off. I have 0 credit card debt. My student loan is also paid off. From getting my MCSE I have had many new PC's and none of them came out of a box. Including the one I am using right now. BTW my garden is bigger than most city home lots. Have a good laugh or cry whichever is most relevant .

Meanwhile:Ya got all the cred to be an AGW denier liar whiner, who took no science chemistry astronomy physics algebra or pre-calc in an unearned hi skule DEE-plooomaa.

litesong, you took what he said out of context. "Please show me where I have denied that climate change is happening," is what he said. He doesn't sound like a Denier to me. He just sounds a little skeptical about whether they have it all figured out or not.

Thus the Megan Kelly quip. Anyhow make fun of this . I will be 60 this year. I have a 4Bdr/2bath home on 12 acres. Its paid off. I have 0 credit card debt. My student loan is also paid off. From getting my MCSE I have had many new PC's and none of them came out of a box. Including the one I am using right now. BTW my garden is bigger than most city home lots. Have a good laugh or cry whichever is most relevant .

You have done quite well for yourself, mygor. What is an MCSE? Not laughing or crying or trying to ridicule. Just curious.

Meanwhile:Ya got all the cred to be an AGW denier liar whiner, who took no science chemistry astronomy physics algebra or pre-calc in an unearned hi skule DEE-plooomaa.

litesong, you took what he said out of context. "Please show me where I have denied that climate change is happening," is what he said. He doesn't sound like a Denier to me. He just sounds a little skeptical about whether they have it all figured out or not.

Thus the Megan Kelly quip. Anyhow make fun of this . I will be 60 this year. I have a 4Bdr/2bath home on 12 acres. Its paid off. I have 0 credit card debt. My student loan is also paid off. From getting my MCSE I have had many new PC's and none of them came out of a box. Including the one I am using right now. BTW my garden is bigger than most city home lots. Have a good laugh or cry whichever is most relevant .

You have done quite well for yourself, mygor. What is an MCSE? Not laughing or crying or trying to ridicule. Just curious.

Microsoft Certified Systems Engineer

It means I can tear apart your PC and put it back together blindfolded lol
Edited on 22-08-2017 08:19

spot wrote:You do know that a Galactic year is about 250 million years long?

Yes. But how can you leave that out of the data. I can also see the BIG flaw in the mauna loa data in the graph. Being only 1 of 5 volcanoes in the region they output more CO2 than any power plant. and as far as I know we can't stop the emissions nor do we cause them.So should we tell Al Gore to tax the volcanoes lol.

Also the activity of these volcanoes Could be affected by our position in the galaxy Are they more or less active when we are above or below the galactic plain. My point is we do not yet know enough to say so with any certainty. If we banned all internal combustion engines, closed all the factories, and power plants the overall effect on the atmosphere would be a small one in the overall big picture.We do not have enough data yet and, some of it is not even considered . We can not allow any government to tax a natural substance that we have no control over. It would only affect our wallets.

Without CO2 there is no ozone, no trees, no plants , no atmosphere. there is a balance there that we do not yet understand. all I have done here is introduce a factor that has not yet been covered.

mygor, CO2 from volcanic eruptions are actually a constant. Their output varies slightly over time, but is pretty much constant. You can look at the data from ice cores, and see the volcanoes going off by looking at the increase in dust, but there isn't an increase in CO2 to go along with them. In fact, you can see a decrease in CO2 following a lot of their eruptions [which indicates a die-off occurred].

I had doubts about whether or not the scientists had it all figured out, so I studied the ice core data, and even built a Climate Model that quite accurately backcasts the climate.

It stands to reason that if the average temperature of the earth can be backcasted that accurately, that it can be forecast as accurately. If so, we are in real trouble, because the algorithm that is used indicates that our average global temperature will eventually increase over 50C from where it is. It will take hundreds or even thousands of years to get there, but everything will be dead before then, if nothing changes.

By THE ASSOCIATED PRESS DEC. 26, 1997

Hot springs and other thermal features at Yellowstone National Park vent millions of tons of the greenhouse gas carbon dioxide each year, more than a typical industrial power plant, researchers from Pennsylvania State University have found.

Industrial smokestacks are normally seen as the prime suspects for the increase of carbon dioxide levels, but hot spring systems like Yellowstone's produce enough carbon dioxide that they, too, should be considered when the world tallies its carbon dioxide emissions, the researchers said.

Cindy Werner, a geoscience graduate student at Penn State, spent much of last summer sampling gases emerging from thermal vents, mud pots and adjacent ground in Yellowstone's Mud Volcano area. Much of the carbon dioxide appeared to escape along fault lines running through the area.

A Massive Lake Of Molten Carbon The Size Of Mexico Was Just Discovered Under The US

A recent scientific discovery has drastically changed our view of the global carbon cycle and identified a new significant risk. Researchers have discovered a giant lake or reservoir made up of molten carbon sitting below the western US.

The molten carbon (primarily in the form of carbonate) reservoir could drastically and immediately change the global climate for over a decade if it were to be released. Thankfully there is little risk in the near future of this happening. The carbon sits 217 miles beneath the surface of the Earth in the upper mantle and has no immediate pathway to the surface. In total the lake covers approximately 700,000 square miles, approximately the size of Mexico. This has redefined how much carbon scientists believe sits locked away in the Earth's mantle and its interaction with surface and atmospheric carbon.

Geologists at Royal Holloway University of London were able to use the largest array of seismic sensors in the world to detect what exists below the surface of the western US. In total 538 sensors were used to create a three-dimensional view of the regions subsurface.

[b]mygor wrote:....hot spring systems like Yellowstone's produce enough carbon dioxide that they, too, should be considered when the world tallies its carbon dioxide emissions, the researchers said.

mygor (is that anything like mizar & alcor?) thinks quoting 20 year year old research papers will teach AGW scientists something new..... specially if those Hot Pots put out 1/1000th of the emissions of man-made machines. Now mygor.... prove those Hot Pots are presently putting out more emissions than they did 400-500 years ago.

[b]mygor wrote:....hot spring systems like Yellowstone's produce enough carbon dioxide that they, too, should be considered when the world tallies its carbon dioxide emissions, the researchers said.

mygor (is that anything like mizar & alcor?) thinks quoting 20 year year old research papers will teach AGW scientists something new..... specially if those Hot Pots put out 1/1000th of the emissions of man-made machines. Now mygor.... prove those Hot Pots are presently putting out more emissions than they did 400-500 years ago.

Here is what I know Al Gore is a proven liar long before his views on climate change . I know this to be true because he Claimed to have invented the Internet during his run for pres. Which is why I could not vote for him in 2000. I had been on the U.Cal BBS where the people who really did invent the Internet talked about testifying before the senate about its release to the public. I choose not to pay attention Liars. So take your troll crap elsewhere please LIAR

The CDIAC graphs are individual logs from NOAA operated weather stations. In them is the raw data from their instruments (annual averages), instead of the cooked data the central NOAA website uses. Anyone can access these logs. None of them, nor any grouping of them, however, show a global temperature.

mygor wrote:Over the past few decades NASA shows similar temp increases on every planet in the solar system.

It is not possible to determine the Earth's temperature to any useful degree of accuracy. It is also not possible to determine the temperature of any planet in the solar system.

We can (and have) sent thermometers on board some spacecraft that have landed on some of these, but that single reading does not describe the temperature of the entire planet. They basically can tell us what city the ballpark is in, but not where the ballpark is or the ball in the ballpark.

mygor wrote:This is why I asked the first question. If humans are the sole reason for climate change then how does this affect the rest of the system?

Several problems here.

1) What IS 'climate change'. From when to when? Why are those two points in time iimportant? Why are any other points of time NOT important? What are you using for data?

mygor wrote:Our planet spins on a central axis.

Not really. Our planet just spins. There happens to be a couple of points you can stand on 'top' (or 'bottom') of the spin.

mygor wrote:The warmest area is the equator which happens to be the farthest point away from the center of the rotating mass

True. It receives the Sun from basically directly overhead throughout the year. The poles don't.

mygor wrote:. Just like a cars tire treads Are the same . Is it just friction?

Friction against what? There is nothing of consequence in space to rub against.

mygor wrote:Or does the fact that they are both at the farthest point of a rotating mass factor into the equation?

It's not distance. It's angle. The Sun stays basically directly overhead at the equator. It doesn't at the poles.

mygor wrote:Right now our solar system is in the area that is the farthest point away from the center of the rotating mass of the galaxy.

Incorrect. We are nearing perigalacticon. We should reach it in about 15 million years. Our last apogalacticon was about 100 million years ago. We will not see another one for 125 million years.

mygor wrote:Ice cores also reveal that as far as CO2 goes our planet is at a low point in history.

Ice is permeable to CO2.

mygor wrote:I would propose that there is a better way of dealing with your carbon fears than taxes.

You could always stop worrying about it.

mygor wrote:A much better way would be to utilize industrial hemp. The oil from the seed can be used as a much cleaner burning replacement for diesel fuel.

Diesel fuel can burn just as cleanly. It also has more BTUs than hemp per pound and also by volume.

mygor wrote:At the same time giving farmers 2 additional crops to sell.

You think they need more subsidies than they already receive?

mygor wrote:Hemp fibers can be used to create Cloth as tough as canvas , or as smooth as silk. thus locking down the carbon contain in it for several years.

These fibers are tough, that is true. I wouldn't worry about 'locking down' carbon though. We don't need to.

mygor wrote:The woody core of the plant can be used to make hempcrete Which can lock down carbon for centuries eventually turning into limestone.

So...'new' limestone is better than 'old' limestone? Did you know that limestone is water soluble?

mygor wrote:While giving a much cleaner air quality to the building than conventional construction materials.

What's wrong with wood, mud, steel, and concrete?

mygor wrote:Carbon taxes as written only make the top 1% richer and the rest of us poorer.

Actually, they are written so governments can steal more of your money.

mygor wrote:It was recently revealed that just 1 of Al Gores homes has a carbon footprint that is 400% higher than the average home in America. The real Inconvenient truth is he should practice what he preaches .

Al Gore??? Do THAT??? Are you nutz???

mygor wrote:In closing I may be an under employed illiterate, I am not an idiot! lol

I am sure that we won't solve this problem, and am preparing for my own family's survival, by investing in a retreat that is off grid and away from other people. That way we [or whoever is left of my family] will have somewhere to go when things get rough. So you guys can categorize me as a Survivalist, who has given up hope on humanity solving this problem. As far as I am concerned, it is up to each individual to prepare his own way through this. Those who do nothing will suffer. Those who prepare might get killed also. But at least if you are trying to preserve your family, then you should be allowed to return to earth, as long as there are vehicles [bodies] available for your return. And as far as I can tell, those who do nothing to preserve their own family, will have no vehicle available for their return, and will not be allowed back.

12 days later....Greenery writes this today...

Not real soon. All indications are that our average temperature is climbing at about 0.16C/decade. At that rate it will take quite a while to kill you off. No, my concern is that our planet will eventually become uninhabitable.

Which is it? Please explain yourself.

Heh. Greenery has not explained himself yet. A paradox has no explanation.

[b]mygor wrote:....hot spring systems like Yellowstone's produce enough carbon dioxide that they, too, should be considered when the world tallies its carbon dioxide emissions, the researchers said.

mygor (is that anything like mizar & alcor?) thinks quoting 20 year year old research papers will teach AGW scientists something new..... specially if those Hot Pots put out 1/1000th of the emissions of man-made machines. Now mygor.... prove those Hot Pots are presently putting out more emissions than they did 400-500 years ago.

First 20 year old report shows that it does output more than a power plant. second 3 month old one shows molten carbon area the size of Mexico under it Please try to use what little brain matter that may be left between your ears.

I am sure that we won't solve this problem, and am preparing for my own family's survival, by investing in a retreat that is off grid and away from other people. That way we [or whoever is left of my family] will have somewhere to go when things get rough. So you guys can categorize me as a Survivalist, who has given up hope on humanity solving this problem. As far as I am concerned, it is up to each individual to prepare his own way through this. Those who do nothing will suffer. Those who prepare might get killed also. But at least if you are trying to preserve your family, then you should be allowed to return to earth, as long as there are vehicles [bodies] available for your return. And as far as I can tell, those who do nothing to preserve their own family, will have no vehicle available for their return, and will not be allowed back.

12 days later....Greenery writes this today...

Not real soon. All indications are that our average temperature is climbing at about 0.16C/decade. At that rate it will take quite a while to kill you off. No, my concern is that our planet will eventually become uninhabitable.

Which is it? Please explain yourself.

Heh. Greenery has not explained himself yet. A paradox has no explanation.

Look up, Proffessor Parrot Face. You are sounding like a retard more and more each day. I responded on 22-08-2017 04:22.

Hot springs and other thermal features at Yellowstone National Park vent millions of tons of the greenhouse gas carbon dioxide each year, more than a typical industrial power plant, researchers from Pennsylvania State University have found.

Industrial smokestacks are normally seen as the prime suspects for the increase of carbon dioxide levels, but hot spring systems like Yellowstone's produce enough carbon dioxide that they, too, should be considered when the world tallies its carbon dioxide emissions, the researchers said.

Cindy Werner, a geoscience graduate student at Penn State, spent much of last summer sampling gases emerging from thermal vents, mud pots and adjacent ground in Yellowstone's Mud Volcano area. Much of the carbon dioxide appeared to escape along fault lines running through the area.

A Massive Lake Of Molten Carbon The Size Of Mexico Was Just Discovered Under The US

A recent scientific discovery has drastically changed our view of the global carbon cycle and identified a new significant risk. Researchers have discovered a giant lake or reservoir made up of molten carbon sitting below the western US.

The molten carbon (primarily in the form of carbonate) reservoir could drastically and immediately change the global climate for over a decade if it were to be released. Thankfully there is little risk in the near future of this happening. The carbon sits 217 miles beneath the surface of the Earth in the upper mantle and has no immediate pathway to the surface. In total the lake covers approximately 700,000 square miles, approximately the size of Mexico. This has redefined how much carbon scientists believe sits locked away in the Earth's mantle and its interaction with surface and atmospheric carbon.

Geologists at Royal Holloway University of London were able to use the largest array of seismic sensors in the world to detect what exists below the surface of the western US. In total 538 sensors were used to create a three-dimensional view of the regions subsurface.

Just saying.

mygor, it is agreed that volcanoes do emit CO2. And that CO2 does add to global warming. The climate gurus have visited this question in a lot of detail, because it is a major talking point among the Deniers. We know with certainty that humans generate much more CO2 than volcanoes though. Here is a link to see what they say about it.https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/earthtalks-volcanoes-or-humans/Or just go do a search on "co2 from volcanoes versus humans." There is a lot of information out there about it.

[b]mygor wrote:....hot spring systems like Yellowstone's produce enough carbon dioxide that they, too, should be considered when the world tallies its carbon dioxide emissions, the researchers said.

mygor (is that anything like mizar & alcor?) thinks quoting 20 year year old research papers will teach AGW scientists something new..... specially if those Hot Pots put out 1/1000th of the emissions of man-made machines. Now mygor.... prove those Hot Pots are presently putting out more emissions than they did 400-500 years ago.

Here is what I know Al Gore is a proven liar long before his views on climate change . I know this to be true because he Claimed to have invented the Internet during his run for pres. Which is why I could not vote for him in 2000. I had been on the U.Cal BBS where the people who really did invent the Internet talked about testifying before the senate about its release to the public. I choose not to pay attention Liars. So take your troll crap elsewhere please LIAR

Rolling on the floor, laughing my ass off. That's it. Spank that trolls' ass like you own him. But are you trying to say that Al Gore didn't invent the internet? After he said he did? Wow, you really are challenging, aren't you. As far as I'm concerned, you are right. Al Gore is an idiot, and has done more to harm than good, with his exaggerated perils of Global Warming. Well, his perils aren't really exaggerated, it's his time frame that is out of wack. I think the things he talked about will happen, but this is a slower process than what he thinks it is. That of course, left the door wide open for the Church of AGW Denial to come in and cause confusion. People should just look at AGW as something that eventually will destroy the planet. And be glad that it won't happen in our lifetime, because that gives us time to make atonement by changing our ways.

I am sure that we won't solve this problem, and am preparing for my own family's survival, by investing in a retreat that is off grid and away from other people. That way we [or whoever is left of my family] will have somewhere to go when things get rough. So you guys can categorize me as a Survivalist, who has given up hope on humanity solving this problem. As far as I am concerned, it is up to each individual to prepare his own way through this. Those who do nothing will suffer. Those who prepare might get killed also. But at least if you are trying to preserve your family, then you should be allowed to return to earth, as long as there are vehicles [bodies] available for your return. And as far as I can tell, those who do nothing to preserve their own family, will have no vehicle available for their return, and will not be allowed back.

12 days later....Greenery writes this today...

Not real soon. All indications are that our average temperature is climbing at about 0.16C/decade. At that rate it will take quite a while to kill you off. No, my concern is that our planet will eventually become uninhabitable.

Which is it? Please explain yourself.

Heh. Greenery has not explained himself yet. A paradox has no explanation.

Look up, Proffessor Parrot Face. You are sounding like a retard more and more each day. I responded on 22-08-2017 04:22.

There's only one way out of a paradox dude. You must discard one argument and choose the other. You cannot make both arguments. That is irrational.

Hot springs and other thermal features at Yellowstone National Park vent millions of tons of the greenhouse gas carbon dioxide each year, more than a typical industrial power plant, researchers from Pennsylvania State University have found.

Industrial smokestacks are normally seen as the prime suspects for the increase of carbon dioxide levels, but hot spring systems like Yellowstone's produce enough carbon dioxide that they, too, should be considered when the world tallies its carbon dioxide emissions, the researchers said.

Cindy Werner, a geoscience graduate student at Penn State, spent much of last summer sampling gases emerging from thermal vents, mud pots and adjacent ground in Yellowstone's Mud Volcano area. Much of the carbon dioxide appeared to escape along fault lines running through the area.

A Massive Lake Of Molten Carbon The Size Of Mexico Was Just Discovered Under The US

A recent scientific discovery has drastically changed our view of the global carbon cycle and identified a new significant risk. Researchers have discovered a giant lake or reservoir made up of molten carbon sitting below the western US.

The molten carbon (primarily in the form of carbonate) reservoir could drastically and immediately change the global climate for over a decade if it were to be released. Thankfully there is little risk in the near future of this happening. The carbon sits 217 miles beneath the surface of the Earth in the upper mantle and has no immediate pathway to the surface. In total the lake covers approximately 700,000 square miles, approximately the size of Mexico. This has redefined how much carbon scientists believe sits locked away in the Earth's mantle and its interaction with surface and atmospheric carbon.

Geologists at Royal Holloway University of London were able to use the largest array of seismic sensors in the world to detect what exists below the surface of the western US. In total 538 sensors were used to create a three-dimensional view of the regions subsurface.

Just saying.

mygor, it is agreed that volcanoes do emit CO2.

That they do. They emit a lot of gases. CO2 is one of them.

GreenMan wrote:And that CO2 does add to global warming.

Carbon dioxide has no such property. It is not capable of warming the planet.

GreenMan wrote:The climate gurus have visited this question in a lot of detail,

At least you called them gurus. That's what climate 'scientists' are: religious nuts.

GreenMan wrote:because it is a major talking point among the Deniers.

No, it is because they are religious nuts.

GreenMan wrote:We know with certainty that humans generate much more CO2 than volcanoes though.

No, you don't.

It is not possible to determine the amount of carbon dioxide produced by man's activities. A few governments put out reports, but they use bad math to do it.

It is not possible to determine the amount of carbon dioxide emitted by volcanic activity. There is insufficient instrumentation for it. All that can be done is a VERY rough estimate, using the instrumentation we have.

There are many natural sources of carbon dioxide, including the oceans, plant material, dissolving limestone, etc.

GreenMan wrote:Here is a link to see what they say about it....deleted Holy Link...

Scientific American doesn't know either.

GreenMan wrote:Or just go do a search on "co2 from volcanoes versus humans." There is a lot of information out there about it.

The Internet is not the Oracle of Truth. Don't treat it like one. Propaganda sites are not information.

Hot springs and other thermal features at Yellowstone National Park vent millions of tons of the greenhouse gas carbon dioxide each year, more than a typical industrial power plant, researchers from Pennsylvania State University have found.

Industrial smokestacks are normally seen as the prime suspects for the increase of carbon dioxide levels, but hot spring systems like Yellowstone's produce enough carbon dioxide that they, too, should be considered when the world tallies its carbon dioxide emissions, the researchers said.

Cindy Werner, a geoscience graduate student at Penn State, spent much of last summer sampling gases emerging from thermal vents, mud pots and adjacent ground in Yellowstone's Mud Volcano area. Much of the carbon dioxide appeared to escape along fault lines running through the area.

A Massive Lake Of Molten Carbon The Size Of Mexico Was Just Discovered Under The US

A recent scientific discovery has drastically changed our view of the global carbon cycle and identified a new significant risk. Researchers have discovered a giant lake or reservoir made up of molten carbon sitting below the western US.

The molten carbon (primarily in the form of carbonate) reservoir could drastically and immediately change the global climate for over a decade if it were to be released. Thankfully there is little risk in the near future of this happening. The carbon sits 217 miles beneath the surface of the Earth in the upper mantle and has no immediate pathway to the surface. In total the lake covers approximately 700,000 square miles, approximately the size of Mexico. This has redefined how much carbon scientists believe sits locked away in the Earth's mantle and its interaction with surface and atmospheric carbon.

Geologists at Royal Holloway University of London were able to use the largest array of seismic sensors in the world to detect what exists below the surface of the western US. In total 538 sensors were used to create a three-dimensional view of the regions subsurface.

Just saying.

mygor, it is agreed that volcanoes do emit CO2.

That they do. They emit a lot of gases. CO2 is one of them.

GreenMan wrote:And that CO2 does add to global warming.

Carbon dioxide has no such property. It is not capable of warming the planet.

GreenMan wrote:The climate gurus have visited this question in a lot of detail,

At least you called them gurus. That's what climate 'scientists' are: religious nuts.

GreenMan wrote:because it is a major talking point among the Deniers.

No, it is because they are religious nuts.

GreenMan wrote:We know with certainty that humans generate much more CO2 than volcanoes though.

No, you don't.

It is not possible to determine the amount of carbon dioxide produced by man's activities. A few governments put out reports, but they use bad math to do it.

It is not possible to determine the amount of carbon dioxide emitted by volcanic activity. There is insufficient instrumentation for it. All that can be done is a VERY rough estimate, using the instrumentation we have.

There are many natural sources of carbon dioxide, including the oceans, plant material, dissolving limestone, etc.

GreenMan wrote:Here is a link to see what they say about it....deleted Holy Link...

Scientific American doesn't know either.

GreenMan wrote:Or just go do a search on "co2 from volcanoes versus humans." There is a lot of information out there about it.

The Internet is not the Oracle of Truth. Don't treat it like one. Propaganda sites are not information.

There's not much sense in trying to debate with someone who thinks the government and scientific community are working against them in a giant conspiracy with the intent to take over the world. Crazy people just don't get it. Logic is of no consequence. Reality is of no consequence. They just keep on blabbing things they memorized long ago, regardless of what the conversation is about.