Just to contradict myself, abiity to get close "access" to the fauna is most definitely a core skill for a wildlife photographer.

Are the two not branches of the same thing, celebrity and wildlife?

Rob C

At first I though about saying something like, "Yes, but the celebrity won't chew off your arm, or spit venom in your eyes, so the wildlife photgrapher also has to have the skills to get away from the fauna." Then I realized that was a distinction without a difference, in this case.

At first I though about saying something like, "Yes, but the celebrity won't chew off your arm, or spit venom in your eyes, so the wildlife photgrapher also has to have the skills to get away from the fauna." Then I realized that was a distinction without a difference, in this case.

You see the benefits of life in New Mexico: you can have your cake and eat it too.

Who is Christian Bale? Sorry, couldnīt resist that; made me think of men of straw.

Rob C

I never bother to read stories about the foibles of actors or musicians, so when I hear about them at all, it's from friends, radio or TV. I have no idea how is name spelled, only I'm thinking the letters "ass" ought to be in there somewhere.

I never bother to read stories about the foibles of actors or musicians, so when I hear about them at all, it's from friends, radio or TV. I have no idea how is name spelled, only I'm thinking the letters "ass" ought to be in there somewhere.

I also wouldn't believe a lot of the press about celebrities, so much of it is made up either by newpapers/magazines to sell more copies or by idiot PR people to keep attention on their clients.Sometimes celebrities get so fed up with all the nonsense, they start making lots of it up themselves to make the media look stupid. Moby very amusingly did that when he suddenly became megafamous. I've worked a few times with a well known actor who avoids the idiot press and at one time had trouble when visiting his home town as the media said he hated the place, he didn't , but it sold papers, so who cares if people get hurt in the process.

My thoughts were similar, Rob. I don't find those nudes in the least inspiring. Perhaps her goal was, zero titillation.

If so, Ray, then she achieved her aim!

I have a problem with this sort of stuff, in that it seems to have little raison dīétre other than to be the opposite of glamour, so much the opposite that it ends up holding hands with the very genre that it has been designed to defeat; a complete circle, in fact, where the two opposing styles become one in unpleasantness.

I have a theory, which is just a theory, which postulates that ultra successful photographers develop a sort of guilt or doubt about their success, a vague suspicion that they really do have feet of clay, and that there grows a need to venture into fresh pastures in a quest for new, but totally unnecessary, validation. It would seem that this sometimes takes them in the direction of "art" photography, an endeavour which has enough uncertainties of its own to make their emotional state a hundred times worse than it might have been if they had simply accepted their glory for what it is and just got on with the job of doing well in their professional life.

You got me Jeremy. I didn't realize I was looking at The Onion until I got to the part about Nicole having the power to decapitate a human being. Goes to show how we've come to expect insanity when we read about the exploits of entertainers these days. Small wonder that people like Nick Brandt prefer to take their chances with lions and hippos; and after seeing what's left of Joachin Phoenix on the Letterman program last week, I'd say it's a good bet that the wildlife smells a bit better as well.

Then God help the rest. If you wish to look at meat on a slab, then in my opinion you have found the right place. I fully understand why the rotten illumination.Rob C

My thoughts were similar, Rob. I don't find those nudes in the least inspiring. Perhaps her goal was, zero titillation.

Neither of you have quite grasped the concept of different tastes have you? And it's somewhat arrogant to assume your taste is so superior to everyone else's. You sound like some dodery old codgers bemoaning the clothes the young are wearing and the awful music they listen to, which only shows how little and not how much they know.Plus [art] nude photos are not just for sexual titilation, if that's what you want, buy an appropriate magazine.

My thoughts were similar, Rob. I don't find those nudes in the least inspiring. Perhaps her goal was, zero titillation.Neither of you have quite grasped the concept of different tastes have you? And it's somewhat arrogant to assume your taste is so superior to everyone else's. You sound like some dodery old codgers bemoaning the clothes the young are wearing and the awful music they listen to, which only shows how little and not how much they know.Plus [art] nude photos are not just for sexual titilation, if that's what you want, buy an appropriate magazine.

Yes we have, jjj. We are both old enough to know that tastes can vary wildly. There's sometimes no accounting for taste. What I'm interested in is learning why something I find totally uninteresting, might actually be a valuable comment on something.

You have failed in your above post to inform us (or anyone else) why you think those nudes by Annie Leibovitz are interesting. Your response is no more than an ad hominem attack.

Futt Futt, again you jump to conclusions about the desires of another. I am, if anything, less interrested in erotic images than I have ever been, but if you wish to include eroticism (implied by the suggestion of magazines) then Mz L fails utterly to produce it, by my measurements, and fails as utterly to provide any alternative emotional connect for me other than one of revulsion (of the images, not of herself).

Should one wish to do nudes, then if not a celebration of beauty, what do we have - its opposite? Scenes from an abattoir come to mind in this instance. Quite seriously though, and not wishing to score points at all, what can be the purpose of doing nudes unless to create beauty? Can it be the buzz of the presence of a naked person when you are, presumably, not naked too? Is the buzz to do with physical presence and a sense of sexual power over another? Is it a need simply to look at a naked other? Of Ms Līs sexuality I know little other than what is implied in her sisterīs documentary, so perhaps itīs a sexual thing anyway, much as it often is between male photographer and female model on some levels.

By the way, I canīt quite find where I claimed to have superior taste to anyone else; I might well so have, but Iīd let that remain my little secret. Music? How far back does your taste go? I could have given you a run for your money with jazz, vintages New Orleans, Chicago, St Louis etc. through rīnīb and rīnīr and diversions into swing but what would that prove, other than I care little for much that happened post Stones, as I think you once declared - or was it post Beatles? Much the same time, anyway. But still eff-all to do with that series of abysmal naked corpses which is where we came in.

And the age references; what makes you think Ms Annie is some spring chicken? What makes you make the connection between age (your personal cutt-off number not mentioned) and having valid opinions? Do people older than you frighten you, shame you, embarrass you or just turn you off? What a mysterious concept hidden within there somewhere!

I suppose that depends on what her intent was with these. I find they create a mild sense of revulsion and are vaguely disturbing. That's my emotional response, and if she was going for something like that, then they worked on me. (However, I must admit it is a bit hard to tell looking at something barely larger than a postage stamp.)