Motorcycle racing; 1949-1968 nostalgia

This photo is of Dickie Dale my boyhood hero, I was lucky enough to know Dickie as a young boy and for all my efforts helping him during the 1960/61 season in South Africa he gave me the trophies he won on a 250 Arial Arrow. My question now is, the 250 Arial I beleive belonged to Stan Cooper does anyone know of Stan Cooper who was he, where did he come from, did he have any other bikes, did he sponsor any other riders.I hope someone out there can supply some info.cheersPeter

I would appreciate any info you can supply on a number of images - names, machines, etc - as I have very little to go on. This could be 'one step too far' for this section of the forum, but I somehow doubt that will prove to be the case!

I'll begin with these, which I'm led to believe are from Monza 1953...

1 & 2 3 & 4 5 & 6

Sorry they're so small; I'll be able to post larger versions in due course.

PaulThanks for that, I did wonder if Stan Cooper could be found and the link you placed does make what I heard all those years ago true. I wonder what happenned to that bike i suppose lost now in the mists of time.cheersPeter.

Good grief, you'll be lucky. Picture 1 - The 500cc Works Gilera team that year (there were no 350cc Gileras) included Geoff Duke, Reg Armstrong, Alfredo Milani and Dickie Dale. Also racing Gileras at the Nations GP at Monza that year were Libero Liberati, Nello Pagani, and Guiseppe Colnago. Just doing a Google Image search on the Italian riders and they all seem to have worn striped helmets, and No.1 isn't Duke, Armstrong or Dale. And I haven't a clue with the others.

If it helps, Gilera Riders Umberto Masetti and Carlo Bandirola both rode the 4 cylinder racers and both had white helmets with a star front centre (I know Masetti later changed helmet colours, but I do have photos of him with the star on his helmet). Another Gilera rider who had a star (although a white star on red? helmet) was Guissepe Colnago.

If you can e-mail me larger pictures I can have a try and "match" them with pictures from my Gilera collection (gilera@igottagilera.co.uk)

Further "observations";Pic 2 is not a Gilera (we did not have light coloured rear mudguards), so that could be an MV Agusta.Pic 6 is also probably an MVBoth Masetti and Bandirola rode for MV after leaving Gilera.

Originally posted by Twin Window Thanks, chaps - progress is indeed being made!

Do I take it that Lorenzetti's in-line four is a Moto Guzzi? And what's rare - the pic or the bike?!

Yes. The four is a Moto-Guzzi and what's rare are pictures of it actually being raced. This shaft driven in line four was scorned by the talented Guzzi design genius Giulio Cesare Carcano (it obviously wasn't his design) as it was slow, cumbersome and handled poorly. In the majority of races the factory riders rode the 500 Guzzi single as it was almost as fast as the four but far more nimble. In 350 form this single was the bike to beat as Carcano developed the bike to almost dominate in 56 and 57. The four was an interesting design but completely impractical. Still, it's a rare picture.

Yes. The four is a Moto-Guzzi and what's rare are pictures of it actually being raced. This shaft driven in line four was scorned by the talented Guzzi design genius Giulio Cesare Carcano (it obviously wasn't his design) as it was slow, cumbersome and handled poorly. In the majority of races the factory riders rode the 500 Guzzi single as it was almost as fast as the four but far more nimble. In 350 form this single was the bike to beat as Carcano developed the bike to almost dominate in 56 and 57. The four was an interesting design but completely impractical. Still, it's a rare picture.

I recall the in line 4 as quite an advanced design. It featured new concepts in valves and cams and also had a type of fuel injection system and a legal "blower" that was open to atmosphere. It was actually very quick but had reliability issues caused by the advanced design. The handling problems were mainly from the torque effect of the shaft drive. It was a good concept to reduce the frontal area to the size of a single and still have 4 cylinders. This would only be possible with this design. It won races in '53 and also into '54. It was a bold design but was ultimately flawed, much like the NR500. The full 500 single upscaled from the successful 350 was introduced only from 1954 onwards

Originally posted by Twin Window Is this the MV single? As you can see, I really am clueless...!

That was taken at Hockenheim, 1953 - as was this...

...which is an NSU, isn't it?

The first pic is an MV single pictured with Earles forks which they experimented with in the early fifties when Les Graham was desperately trying to improve the handling of the 500 four but they also used them on the 125 single. Les hd been killed earlier that year at the TT but MV still used Earles forks until they finally went back to teles.

The other pic is the Moto Guzzi single I mentioned earlier which makes me think that, despite my diatribe, Lorenzetti isn't on a four in the earlier pic but a single. It was the tank tht made me think it. Sorry!

After his fatal crash his team-mate Bill Lomas blamed Graham's own unconventional choice of an Earles fork. Made in Britain, these offered some advantages in steering and braking in exchange for much heavier steering weight. They worked superbly at the smooth Monza circuit, and Graham was convinced of their superiority.

'I tried a bike with them fitted at the Ulster GP. On the seven-mile-long Clady Straight, where you were jumping three feet off the ground at 150mph, it would get into a tank slapper - a pendulum effect. I told them to take it off and fit telescopic forks but Graham liked them."

Graham's accident was probably triggered by a tank slapper that started on landing from the hump later dubbed Ago's Leap. The big-four swerved at high speed over the kerb and into the wall on the left side and richocheted across the road. Graham was killed instantly.

From THE WORLD 500CC WORLD CHAMPIONS by Michael Scott (ISBN 1-85960-845-0) - an excellent read by the way!

Originally posted by Twin Window Thanks, Rog - although I'm now a tad confused (not hard to achieve in this context!).

More pics...

Do these shots depict Carlo Ubbiali?

I thought I'd found an ID for this chap earlier, but now I can't find my note...

I believe that the bottom pic shows Cecil Sandford; is that correct? Who is the rider in the top image?

These four are of Ray Amm, I think...

Sorry to confuse you on the Guzzi four. I still can't work out whether it's a four or a single. Anyway, onto the pics. I'm not too much help but I am thinking about them. The first chap is definitely not Ubbiali but he is Italian. Many will laugh but I think it's Libero Liberati. The chap on number 52 is Reg Armstrong who rode an NSU in the 250 in 53 as well as carried out his duties as Geoff Duke's back up in the Gilera team on the 500. Strange days then. Two factories allowing you to ride for both of them. The person you think is Ray Amm is definitely Ray Amm. That's about it from me.

Oh and the rider you think is Cecil Sandford is Cecil Sandford. My guess is that the chap on the MV with the Earles forks is H-P Muller on a rare ride for MV. when he finished sixth. It's the white helmet and the age of the rider that makes me think that.

I concur - Libero Liberati is the rider in the first two pics. Although he's wearing a silk scarf, his helmet 'colours' match him.
Reg Armstrong has the large black shamrock on his helmet, and Ray Amm has the famous lantern jaw.

Back in the 1960s, Johnson's Cafe at West Kingdown, in Kent, was the famous meeting place for 'rockers'. Part of the folk law about the place was that a record would be put on the jukebox then riders would belt down the A20 passed Brands Hatch, down Gorse Hill (once Death Hill) around the roundabout then back to Johnsons before the record had ended. Now since some records are longer than others, was there a particular favourite which was chosen? (The 1812 Overture perhaps ;) )

I make no apologies for putting these on here for I think these four pics really sum up motorcycle racing in my native South Africa in the fifties. Anybody know this man who was the 1959 350 SA champion?

Originally posted by bigrog I make no apologies for putting these on here for I think these four pics really sum up motorcycle racing in my native South Africa in the fifties. Anybody know this man who was the 1959 350 SA champion?

The 3rd pic looks to be taken at my namesake corner, Henry’s Knee at Roy Hesketh circuit in Pietermaritzburg, South Africa.

Paddy received Springbok colours in 58. Do you know a rider, J. Gray, that got Springbok colours in 59...apparently for achievements in the 350cc class?

Hieronymous

Amazing coincidence that you should mention Jack Gray because that's exactly who the man in the silver helmet is. A great talent, he is number 22 in the first photo. The other rider in that picture is Stan Setaro who was one of the aces of the time. Jack was '59 350 champion and earned his Springbok colours for that and the fantastic results he achieved against International riders during their tour of 58/59. (these included Mike Hailwood and Dickie Dale). His career ended in late '59 at the Roy Hesketh circuit in Pietermaritzburg when he ran wide at the Sweep and hit a freshly dug ditch(he was the only man who could take the Sweep absolutely flat out without shutting off). He had serious injuries but made a full recovery. He did end his career the way he wanted though, leading the 500 race on a 350 in front of a number of overseas riders.

As an interesting addendum, his son Rod won the '74 350 championship. Father and son were both sponsored by Doug Aldridge which made it the first time a father and son won an SA championship riding for the same sponsor.

I have been asked a question about Fritz Scheidegger's fatal crash at Mallory Park on 25 March 1967. It's my understanding that his outfit suffered a brake failure and crashed into barriers at the hairpin. A picture in an early copy of Classic Racer suggests that there may not have been any barriers and they might have struck a wall.

Passenger John Robinson suffered a broken leg and retired from racing. What became of him?

I was there that day Paul and we were standing on the long r/hander after the start and so did,nt see the crash but I think he either misjudged the hairpin or like Camathias at Brands something broke. I also have wondered for 40 years what happened to John Robinson as he lived near me in Croydon then. Often saw the transporter on the way home from work. He wrote a wonderful piece in Motorcycling called Trials and Tribulations of a sidecar passenger,all about grass track racing in Switzerland on a kneeler BMW and Georg Auerbacher tearing off down Bray Hill with John shouting "slowly slowly"

Here’s an interesting photo…I think. Pulled it from my files. It is from the Geoff Duke race meeting that was held exactly 50 years ago (2 Feb 1957) at the Grand Central circuit near Johannesburg, South Africa.

This is what I think they called the prone (?) position. Banned in all other provinces in SA, at the time, apart from the Transvaal. I recall seeing a photo of another South African, Vic Proctor, in a similar racing position during an attempt on the SA land speed record.

By the way, the rider in this photo went to Europe where he competed with great success in single seater car racing. Any guesses??

Here’s an interesting photo…I think. Pulled it from my files. It is from the Geoff Duke race meeting that was held exactly 50 years ago (2 Feb 1957) at the Grand Central circuit near Johannesburg, South Africa.

This is what I think they called the prone (?) position. Banned in all other provinces in SA, at the time, apart from the Transvaal. I recall seeing a photo of another South African, Vic Proctor, in a similar racing position during an attempt on the SA land speed record.

By the way, the rider in this photo went to Europe where he competed with great success in single seater car racing. Any guesses??

The only person who springs to mind off that era is John Love from Rhodesia who went on to win the British saloon car champioship 1961 and also drove FJ Coopers very successfully in Europe.

Who can tell me about Stanley Schofield records? A search on eBay shows these were produced in EP and LP form. Are CDs available these days? Who was Stanley Schofield and how long were the records produced?

"Apart from promotional records dealing with cars, all sorts of records containing the sounds of these motorised vehicles have been issued. A fine example is an English series called 'Sound Stories', which was issued between 1958 and 1969. The initiator of this series was Gordon Pitt, who worked as a sound engineer for film maker Stanley Schofield. The Schofield-team regularly filmed car races and thus earned a good reputation among the various companies in the motor industry. The foundation for the Sound Stories series was laid when the PR-department of one these companies suggested that a "picture in sound" of a car race would be a good idea. The first single contained recordings of the London-to-Brighton 'Diamond Jubilee Race'. Response from the public, however, was not quite as enthusiastic as was hoped for, whereupon Schofield decided to try his luck with a commentary of the TT on the Isle of Man. The 10 inch LP of the '1958 Senior Race' was an instant success and the series would continue to 1969.
Apparently, Schofield also sold his recordings to others. Toy manufacturer Scalextric, for example, used the race sounds for 'Roar! Authentic Sound Thrills of Grand Prix & T.T. Racing', a record which was intended as "a new dimension to your enjoyment of the Scalextric miniature racetrack". Vroom vrrroom! Better have a look in your attic! Maybe the old racetrack is still there somewhere..."