Posted 4 years ago on April 18, 2013, 6:20 a.m. EST by factsrfun
(8803)
from Phoenix, AZ
This content is user submitted and not an official statement

“Max Baucus of Montana, Mark Begich of Alaska, Heidi Heitkamp of North Dakota and Mark Pryor of Arkansas - rejected the background checks plan. Baucus, Begich and Pryor are up for re-election in 2014.”

Occupy is incoherent and in denial. Somehow they think they can use their rights without referring to the contract that creates the rights and still have credibility. Hell, the nycga is completely unaccountable. It's a social event. If you don't fit in, no one is interested.

I guess constitutional rights becomes more important when congress feels like taking away human and individual rights. Do we get rights because we are human not animal. Do we get rights because God gave us rights. Do we get rights from the Constitution which is the basis for our federal and state governments signed by our ancestors. Do we get rights from an elected government that decides how much value to place on US Jobs, US Wages, US Benefits for Jobs, Continuity for Pension Programs, Insurance for Retirement benefits, Insurance for Savings.... and on and on.

Natural law, rights, constitutional intent I understand and believe in, PARTICULARLY as protected by law, as in the constitution.

It is up to the people to articulate constitutional intent, "the people are the rightful masters of the congress and the courts" (Lincoln 1859), but when a false society rages occupying the forums with BS, making it look like people are actually interested in the regurgitated pep talk, its pretty hard.

If a person anchors to certain principals, they can adjust later in life to change the principal as they see fit.

If a person is emotional about Guns. Hates Guns. And always opposes those with guns... I'm not sure it is as instructive about principals. I'm not sure a person gets the same overview or view over the Gun issue. It may not instruct them in other words. But the gun issue is just an emotional issue that I picked out as example. But it happens to be a constitutional issue as well.

I'm not the greatest reader. But I am amazed at the benefits from reading or working with spreadsheets. This gives me hope for the value of principals.

You've got the mike. Go for some constitutionally intense speech. Speak on the doc, seems some don't like "united" term. We haven Internet and cable with hundreds of channels, why dont "we" ave cable, radio message, after 1.8 years.

Our speech is all over the map....a foundation might be a way to focus resources and energy. Needs to be apart from Ows.org.

Go for it ZenDog, BradB. How do we get a web presence for progressive voice of Ows.org, where possible implement of good ideas from here, with this site providing ideas and feedback

Your "focusing" is good in discussion, that's most important. Establishing by agreement, the fundaments of what we would define as constitutional intent, is intended by the framers to be a common foundation.

Uh, constitutional intent I understand. I guess if it went on real loud for an hour or so:-)

"Rights....ruh to.art. V has been spoken of by anti-people, so high bar to cross there."

Here is where we can do some critical thinking. You would be referring to alec I think. There was a petition to test them to see if they intend an un constitutonal convention serving corporations or if they can respect obvious definition of constitutional intent, which ART5 must have. This seriously would put some heat on them if the people understood constitutional intent well enough to know that the proposal for preparatory amendment is exactly the kind of environment where constitutional intent can be properly defined by the people.

If congress listens to people, if we could get some action like state legislature of West Virginia

The Democratic-controlled West Virginia House of Delegates voted Thursday to call on Congress to enact a constitutional amendment overturning the Citizens United Supreme Court decision.

The resolution, which passed 60-39, asks for Congress to draft a constitutional amendment which would allow for corporations to be regulated in terms of how much money they could donate and spend on behalf of political candidates, The State-Journal reported. In 2010, the Supreme Court ruled that corporations could not be regulated on campaign spending, deeming that they were covered under the First Amendment to freedom of speech when it came to campaign donations. A number of Democratic lawmakers and others have been seeking to overturn the decision.

The elite would approve of your inability to understand constitutional intent. Americans have no problem with extrapolating from, life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness to understanding constitutional intent.

A list that cognitive therapists use that lead to an understanding of how individuals justify their behaviors, or what leads to the behaviors, thoughts,feelings and beliefs. Using these in discussion can inhibit cognition by readers.

When speech is involved, the left or cognitive side of the brain is always involved. With reading and writing, it may be done with no cognition.

COGNITIVE DISTORTIONS

All or nothing thinking: Things are placed in black or white categories. If things are less than perfect self is viewed as failure.

Over generalization: Single event is viewed as continuous failure.

Mental filter: Details in life (positive or negative) are amplified in importance while opposite is rejected.

Minimizing: Perceiving one or opposite experiences (positive or negative) as absolute and maintaining singularity of belief to one or the other.

Mind reading: One absolutely concludes that others are reacting positively or negatively without investigating reality.

Fortune Telling: Based on previous 5 distortions, anticipation of negative or positive outcome of situations is established

given your inability to discern censorship from disagreement I am reluctant to embrace your analyses, my personal experience was that the fucking Greens were everywhere at the meetings, so that tells you a lot....

This username is a "refugee" from censorship. Last year I was drawn into a series of threads which became isolated and only those posting in them could see them. They never appeared to the viewers at large.
Those threads were a major education, in addition to witnessing the techno censorship action.

It's called a shadow ban, you can get one by reveling what political hacks the Greens are, otherwise you're usually OK what got you one? The way I look at it is I don't own the internet and nobody on it owes me nothing, so I just tell the truth for as long as they let me they haven't thrown me off completely yet maybe that's got something to do with it.

There may be problems on the site, perhaps when "I am censored here," gets 9 upvotes in less than a day while You Are Occupy none(not that I'm complaining, just seeing what is) maybe the mods should take a look see...

I have been to meetings of "issue" groups and to learn that after the primary I could support a candidate as a "non-partisan" (that is as far as using their tools) but not before didn't sit well with me, no wonder so many get lost in the wilderness of "statement voting" anyway how about an independent group willing to tell the truth and willing to do something to change the situation. From their view point that's what the TEA Party is, they don't pretend to not be involved in the GOP process quite the opposite MoveOn might have become something if it weren't "non-partisan" policy is affected by the TEA Party because they affect the GOP, OWS could do the same, but with the Ds.

Since there is individual freedom and justifiable disgust with our political process I find at the meetings that an official OWS role in campaigns is unlikely.

But most Occupiers (Some but not not most leaders), are clearly dem leaning progressives. So the anti political involvement Occupiers can't stop our supporters from getting involved.

Those against political involvement have to become witch hunting thought police, and that is always poor form.

In addition, OWS has excited, incited millions who will reflexively gravitate towards political involvement. OWS anti politics people can't stop that either.

Finally, OWS has encouraged, empowered, informed dozens of like minded, progressive groups who DO get directly involved. So Occupies efforts to stay uninvolved is silly, naive, they can stop it like they can grasp water or air.

So if we continue coalition building with like minded groups, continue to incite individuals on the issues (the our political process is addressing), and continue having the debate (allowing freedom of choice) within the "leadership" our influence on politics will grow.

Can't stop the tide. Those against political involvement should focus on the issues, and set aside the useless battle against the logical path we face.

I agree with your first statement which leads me to disagree with most of the rest, I find it very unfortunate that income inequality will be restricted to a noise in the street instead of power in the primaries where concern for the rich is well represented by the TEA Party, what I see coming as a result is a bunch of half measures at best if anything at all is done, already wealth inequality is falling off the political policy setting agenda. Even within OWS Wars that have already ended or soon will or drones which never will end, has taken over more of the discussion than the fact that the rich are too damn rich and we got to do something about it, that's the math that brought me here if we are unwilling to deal with that the rest is just window dressing.

I see the issue (inequity) still discussed however less, It is just under the surface to be resurrected quickly and easily when most effective, more likely to get support.

Inequity is falling off the national dialogue, and shouldn't (too much talk of Tea Party deficit reduction/cuts/austerity), but the economic equity issue can & will be brought back. I submit occupy always contributes to a chorus of like minded (empowered & influenced by ows) groups.

I assume and hope that occupies efforts, and all the other groups WILL influence the primaries, whether occupy thought police isolationists know or not.

How many posts do you see about the minimum wage increase and how many about dead wars or drones? Accepting what is, is always important for any useful action, OWS is what it wants to be and it no longer champions working class causes. Look at the three 24/7 noise machines has any of them even once mentioned the minimum wage bump? If OWS does not exist to give full throated support to that at least MW then it has little reason to exist I think, yet has there been any effort to push for this?

There is an annoying "belief or hope" that hating on government and politics will somehow fix all our woes, among some on this board. OWS, I know you're compromised, but please tell us this is NOT your delusional belief.

Every day OWS could post a new piece about wealth inequality and yet we must look to other sites and bring the information here. May Day has just passed and all coverage on the front page is about the protest not the message. If we want to be heard we must have something to say.

Nothing is more frustrating than to see the path yet be unable to show others.

In life no matter what one's goals are it always comes down to doing the next thing.

When enough people do the same next thing, change occurs.

This requires leadership, and where humans become involved with their egos, things can go aria. Ego is the enemy.

There is a way out of this mess, choose truth, it's no longer truth the minute you put your ambitions above your veracity, say when people blur the differences between parties in order to build a third, perhaps a useful lie but still a lie and embracing it destroys all chance of anything truly new happening, another is the ideal that dealing with climate change will be free or even profitable, it is the defining challenge of humanity and we will not be successful without sacrifice. I'm picking on the left on purpose the lies told by the right are beyond the number of stars in the sky.

Anyway i'm not saying it will happen just that the few times people have gotten close to sticking to the truth things have changed it seems.

Im against the government taking freedoms away from people. I have friends who are not allowed to purchase a gun for their own self defense who are extremely decent people but got in trouble when they were younger.

Im also against taking away someone's voting rights because they got in some trouble.

I have zero respect for anyone that does that. That being said, Ive known people who have been arrested for that who really didnt do anything. And Ive known people who did but are very different people than that one lone episode would indicate. And then there are those who are simply abusive and should just die.

But heres the thing- where do you draw the line? If someone got arrested for beating someone up 5 years ago, they are ok, but 4.5 years they arent? What if they got screwed in the court process, as happens to many?

What if the cops lied? What if they did something really stupid but otherwise live a moral and decent life? What if they used to have a horrible drug problem but dont now?

What if that drug problem led them to be someone they werent? What if they are now cured? What if they fall back into it? Whats the timeline for cured?

The amount of questions needed for creating what is nothing more than an opinion from one person about another is staggering.

Well he should not have bruised her, or should have had a better attorney, or should have not started the fight,or should have been involved enough in his community to assure a fair trial. It's a ridiculous scenario.

I know one thing boss, the problem ain't the poor abuser getting unfair treatment, the vast amount of examples are leniency by wife beating apologists like you who let abusers off easy or with no punishment and the women winds up dead.

I prefer to err on the side of saving womens lives (I like women more).

And we take the right to freedom all the time, nothing wrong with taking the right to gun access for the sake of the women & children victims of brutal abuse.

You use ridiculous outlandish exceptions in your scenarios. The facts tell an opposite story of male abuse of women being allowed for centuries and then overlooked, not prosecuting, and being treated leniently.

Time to put these fuckers in jail for decades and remove access to guns.

Cant afford a decent laywer, something people like you know nothing about. Didnt start the fight either. It is ridiculous, and it happens everyday. Go talk to some cops about women pressing charges on men for nonsense, happens all the time. It might happen to you someday.

FYI Ive been the guy putting abusers in their place before, on numerous occasions, so dont take this as my defending them. Chances are if the two of us were out and saw that Id be the one stepping in between em while your privelaged ass watched like a scared stooge. Seen that alot.

That being said, shit happens, and your entire concept of whats criminal is based off of repression and a police state.

Someone whose been in a bar fight should have their rights taken away? Really? Are you really that privelaged that you just said that?

"Piviledged"? Where did you get that lie from.? My personal life is none of your business. You dishonest personal attacks to distract from your support of abusers is disgusting.

You can't pretend to be anti abuser after numerous comments offering cover for abusers with your ridiculous isolated scenarios.

"happens all the time"? Whaaaaaaat? Please. that is blatant bullshit. What happens all the time is men beating women & children, raping their wives & children, & courts letting them off. When a women is killed it is most likely the boyfriend/husband.

The fraction of cases you suggest happens "all the time" is offensive to the victims.

And someone who gets drunk (or is sober) and is found guilty of starting a fight (in a bar or otherwise), should absolutely lose their freedom & lose their rights to guns.

There you go labeling people as violent criminals. You've never been in a bar fight before?

Let me guess, youre going to again say your personal life is none of my business. And yet there you are, claiming you should be able to interfere in other's. Only privelaged douche bags think like that.

The women thing no. Bar fights? Did I ever punch someone in the mouth for acting like an asshole? Hell ya I have. Have I slapped someone right in their mouth for disrespecting women? Fuck ya I have. Thats what suppose to happen. Have I ever taught someone a lesson for robbing people? You bet.

Your "defending" people from abuse can be obscured into a criminal charge very easily if someone want to, and specifically if they have more money than you do.

Where does a fight start? Does it start with a verbal threat? Or the shove? Or the first one to throw the punch? All comes down to who has the better lawyer, as in who has more money.

With domestic violence, it is clear that mental health care needs to be MUCH better. In fact, the mass murders indicate that people do not have an option because mental health care is so shitty. They would rather kill and die. The lack of good mental health appears to be something imposed by unconstitutional courts and non-mal-feasing government.

I found this link here last year. Mind boggling legal actions with VERY unconstitutional judicial actions all the way to the supreme court.

Ya, its a few reloads. Drop, pop and go. This kid was reloading like he was in a video game, reloading wasnt an issue. It takes literally less than 2 seconds to reload.

Background checks and magazines wouldnt have stopped this maniac. I understand to want to do something, and do it quick. Its natural. That being said, I would have expected this tragedy to put us in the middle of a huge national conversation on mental health.

Mental health of a kid who has a father in a global accounting firm. And a second shooter at the scene that no one wants to talk about.

And look at that, the duopoly managed to get just enough votes to do what they wanted to. Im soooooooo fuckin shocked.

Really? 11 kids are going to get up and make it out of there in 2 seconds? That doesnt even make sense. Just go try it with a paintball gun. If reload times are what we have been led is a solution to this, even a part of it, we are really fucked.

Listen, that line is a lie you were fed so that it makes it seem like these fuckin sociopaths that run this country are doing what needs to be done.

that's one possibility or he dropped a clip when he went to reload, the BushMaster isn't known for jamming, people wouldn't pay close to two grand if it were, how could he clear a jam that fast anyway? much more likely it was a clip change-out gone bad(or good) but I guess guns is just another of the long list of stuff you don't know shit about

Brian Schweitzer is progressive enough for most of us - but with a dose of moderation that got him elected and re-elected in Montana as Governor of the very R state.
He is the obvious replacement fo max "k street" baucus.

I went to a meeting of another "non-partisan" group a few days ago, and i don't see just taking whoever wins the primary and I'm sure as hell not taking any chance on the Republican winning if I can help it, so that means "primaring" their asses if you want to create change, and I guess "non-partisans" have a problem with that.