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Originally posted by Rthuth434

Originally posted by mymmo

Originally posted by Rthuth434i've played TSW off and on ultimately giving it up. everyone keeps saying how it's new and fresh, but i never saw how. mind explaining that? hopefully you're all not just talking about the setting.

The setting, the detective quests, the lore and the horizontel grinding :)

New stuff in other words :)

the quests while not all new were my most obvious thing that was implemented somewhat differently. the "grinding" is completely linear and standard. the zone progression is the same. you can only go where you gear permits really, and the gear determines your level. the character level is more "omitted" than non-existent. this aspect of TSW functions exactly the same as world of warcraft.

Missions that require you to use your head to figure out how to complete, without all the obvious pointers that are in most games. (Yes you can google a spoiler site, but the innovation is that you are challenged to complete it without cheating). Clues built throughout the game -- in the lore, in the cut scenes. You need to pay attention in TSW.

Speaking of Google, actually integrating modern setting tools into the game -- actual websites that are woven into the storyline and clues of the game. Needing to look up hieroglyphs or ciphers in order to solve a puzzle, but then actually and audaciously including a browser as part of the game. And cell phones to turn in missions.

The pattern of missions is subtly different and follow more of breadcrumb rather than a hub/return pattern, leading you more serepitously through the map.

Sabotage missions that don't have a stealth mode but that require you to sneak and remain out of sight and NOT engage in combat to complete. Even the action missions require you to use your head.

The ability wheel, which allows a single character to play any role, equip any weapon and gather any ability. You can play a tank, healer, dps and everything in-between. The "horizontal proogression" is the ability to create multiple unique decks and find crazy synergies and combos, and make your character stand out as different.

Separating clothes from gear, giving players the freedom to create any look they like, independent of combat. Complete freedom there.

No levels or classes. See the ability wheel above. Gear does play a role, but it is only part of the picture, and your deck plays a big part in how effective your character is. You can be geared for a particular area in the game, but if your deck sucks, you will get your ass handed to you, even so. Again, the more effort you put into an effective deck, the more effective you will be.

A move away from ez-mode. The game challenges you, and the learning game is a bit more steep than many games. It rewards thought and persistence, and respects your intelligence. Combat and puzzles can be hard, but that's usually because you haven't thought things through.

Finally, a return to community. The game has included an in-game theater, pubs and a club for RP. Many tools for grouping, and a move away from dungeon finder tools that group with an anonymous speed runners. People are actually talking to each other in this game, and I think it's due to conscious design decisions to give people reason to do things together.

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Originally posted by Rthuth434pretty much none of that post about TSW is new and fresh, and it's highly dressed up in rosiness and fanboyism...

Please name for me an MMO where you:

Must use your head rather than just follow the arrows?

Have the concept of investigation missions?

Have access to every ability and weapon in the game with a single character?

Have an in-game theater with props, sound effects and lighting?

Have an in-game browser with websites that are part of the game? (www.orochigroup.net)

Have no levels or classes

Have clothes completely separated from gear

I'll take the fanboy tag, no problem, but examples of other games doing these things, please.

EQ2 has had an in game browser for years. The skill wheel and QL(1-10) are essentially levels, but who cares? TSW is one of the best mmos I've ever played. It was also one of the best deals at $30.

I haven't got to run instances yet, but I hear they're fun. I love that I can eventually master every skill on the wheel and how passive synergies work with on damage and attack type rather than just weapons. I love the setting and environment and I dig the community and general chat.

Oh you forgot the ARG on your list. I know other games have mini-games outside the game or some sort of external interaction, but is there any game that has something like TSW's ARG and how it fits in with the game? The last one was pretty awesome. There are some things I don't like and some standard mmo trope they've veneered over, but I'm definitely a fanboy of this game now. I'm heading to Arcadia now.

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Originally posted by Rthuth434pretty much none of that post about TSW is new and fresh, and it's highly dressed up in rosiness and fanboyism...

Please name for me an MMO where you:

Must use your head rather than just follow the arrows?

Have the concept of investigation missions?

Have access to every ability and weapon in the game with a single character?

Have an in-game theater with props, sound effects and lighting?

Have an in-game browser with websites that are part of the game? (www.orochigroup.net)

Have no levels or classes

Have clothes completely separated from gear

I'll take the fanboy tag, no problem, but examples of other games doing these things, please.

EQ2 has had an in game browser for years. The skill wheel and QL(1-10) are essentially levels, but who cares? TSW is one of the best mmos I've ever played. It was also one of the best deals at $30.

I haven't got to run instances yet, but I hear they're fun. I love that I can eventually master every skill on the wheel and how passive synergies work with on damage and attack type rather than just weapons. I love the setting and environment and I dig the community and general chat.

Oh you forgot the ARG on your list. I know other games have mini-games outside the game or some sort of external interaction, but is there any game that has something like TSW's ARG and how it fits in with the game? The last one was pretty awesome. There are some things I don't like and some standard mmo trope they've veneered over, but I'm definitely a fanboy of this game now. I'm heading to Arcadia now.

D-oh! ARGs are a great thing, as well -- the last one was amazing. Instances are low trash, but very fun.

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I agree with your list, of all the games you listed Diablo 3 would be number one on my list and Rift in close 2nd. The game not listed was WoW, but saying you like Diablo 3 will garner you enough hate from people. Saying you like WoW might make them riot lol. Good read!

Edit: and I'll admit it, when Cain died "I got something in my eye" too. I was totally suprised and caught off-guard when it happened, and so soon into the story too! I was like Darth Vader at the end of Episode 3 "NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!" lol

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I don't know if I just got used to the theme park mmo, but I find myself missing the dedicated classes in these new mmo's. As far as diablo 3 goes they could of at least changed the content the 2nd time through I had lots of fun the first time through but the same content got really old really quick.

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Originally posted by diceman82post reeks of nerd baiting with obvious choices everyone universally agree on as being shittastic(Swotor, D3). WTB a "bury story" button so this crap doesnt make the front page.

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While D3 sits on my shelf collecting dust and disappointment, others have liked it. I don't have any issue with that. Calling a MMO is something I *do* have a problem with but this isn't a "best MMO" list.

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Suzie, you really need to give EQ2 credit where its due. Rift's dimensions are clearly based off of it. Yes, they did a remarkable job adapting it. but its EQ2's sytem and any change to how MMOs approach housing would be credited to EQ2, because thats where Trion got the system from.