Great idea, while we're at it let's remove all the autoloaders, and normalise all guns to have the same DPM/alpha/pen, then we can make sure all tanks have the same armour profile/thickness, and the same speed/mobility, and give them all the same HP, then we can rename the game Quake and be done with it >.>

Great idea, while we're at it let's remove all the autoloaders, and normalise all guns to have the same DPM/alpha/pen, then we can make sure all tanks have the same armour profile/thickness, and the same speed/mobility, and give them all the same HP, then we can rename the game Quake and be done with it >.>

You don't see any problem with guns where the premium ammo is flat out better with no downsides compared with the regular ammo and you don't even need to aim at tier 10?

Last night i was sidescraping with IS-4 and then some red player just fired at me with type 4 derp (normal ammo). 650 dmg. In this situation the damage must be no more then 200... I understand the HE mechanics but pls..

exist a gun in this game where p2w ammo is different? i mean not flat out better and with downsides??

i think only 1 or 2 exceptions...an rests..ALL but ALL hare or better penetration without donwsides or better damage...

great balance !

in that way all guns should be removed...

so the problem is not on gun...is on ammo

Most premium rounds have at least a small downside. Don't get me wrong, I don't like premium ammo as it currently is in the game, but the derp guns on these tanks are some of the most blatant examples.

You don't see any problem with guns where the premium ammo is flat out better with no downsides compared with the regular ammo and you don't even need to aim at tier 10?

If it existed I would, however that assessment ignores the facts that:

That ammo costs 6400c a shell.

You have to fire it if you're going to play those tanks as the base ammo has awful damage.

You still have to aim unless at point blank range or your shot will miss the target and you'll have to wait 16-20 seconds to try again.

You still have to aim even at point blank range because if you're hitting high armoured parts for 300-500 damage then you're going to be DPM'd down by your opponent (I.E an E100 fires at the same speed at a T5H and does 750 damage with autopen HEAT) so you need to make every hit count.

It is borderline hilarious how people always whine about these tanks more than any others despite the T4H being one of the worst T9 HTs, and autoloaders being far more scummy in battles. It seems some people really want a game where all the tanks are the same and everything loses its coolness/uniqueness

Most premium rounds have at least a small downside. Don't get me wrong, I don't like premium ammo as it currently is in the game, but the derp guns on these tanks are some of the most blatant examples.

if you talk about normalization, pen loss over distance and velocity...thats not the case.

those are differences between shells type not difference between standard and premium.

you can see this better on tanks wich have same ammo type on standard and prem too.:

T54LT - APCR

AMX M4s - AP

IKV 103 - HEAT

ALL of them perform just better pen because you pay more.

for others is even worse because in mostly cases those small differences are on premium shells advantage too...and anyway..are irrelevant compared to penetration p2w advantage

So another problem found...those small advantages wich are suposed to require tactical decisions are USELESS since all what you need is MORE PEN. And you get it...if you pay more.

He is the target audience for this tank. do not expect him to see. How do I know? Look at his reaction

I don't even like those tanks, I ground the T4H to complete the line and haven't touched it since. I just like variety in my games, I don't want to play a game where everything is the same and you never need to change your tactics on the fly to deal with different threats.

YES!!! YES!!! YES!!! Remove the derp guns...those things are just retarded...load prem HE...put the cursor on the enemy tank and click...boom...5-6-700 dmg...no need to aim no need to nothing...it's just so stupid.

If it existed I would, however that assessment ignores the facts that:

That ammo costs 6400c a shell.

You have to fire it if you're going to play those tanks as the base ammo has awful damage.

You still have to aim unless at point blank range or your shot will miss the target and you'll have to wait 16-20 seconds to try again.

You still have to aim even at point blank range because if you're hitting high armoured parts for 300-500 damage then you're going to be DPM'd down by your opponent (I.E an E100 fires at the same speed at a T5H and does 750 damage with autopen HEAT) so you need to make every hit count.

It is borderline hilarious how people always whine about these tanks more than any others despite the T4H being one of the worst T9 HTs, and autoloaders being far more scummy in battles. It seems some people really want a game where all the tanks are the same and everything loses its coolness/uniqueness

1. With so many ways to earn credits, the increased shell cost of premium ammo is pretty irrelevant these days.

2. Obviously it is a superior round to the regular HE, but that is kinda my point.

3. All you do most of the time is aim for centre of mass. A derp gun (most of the time) doesn't require or benefit from weak spot knowledge so that is a whole aspect of the game mechanics you can just casually ignore.

4. Yes, you want your shots to count, but if you're fighting against an E100 for example, aiming is exactly what you don't want to do. If you aim properly, you hit him for at least a hundred or two, he hits you for 750. Instead, don't aim properly then you hit him for 400-600 and he has a chance of missing/bouncing. That becomes a fight you might win.

The Type 4 being bad? That just doesn't stack up. According to VBAddict, it is 6/12 on win rate for tier 9 heavies and 17/46 across the whole tier. The numbers for the Type 5 are 5/17 and 9/56.

Bucifel, on 06 February 2018 - 04:03 PM, said:

if you talk about normalization, pen loss over distance and velocity...thats not the case.

those are differences between shells type not difference between standard and premium.

you can see this better on tanks wich have same ammo type on standard and prem too.:

T54LT - APCR

AMX M4s - AP

IKV 103 - HEAT

ALL of them perform just better pen because you pay more.

for others is even worse because in mostly cases those small differences are on premium shells advantage too...and anyway..are irrelevant compared to penetration p2w advantage

So another problem found...those small advantages wich are suposed to require tactical decisions are USELESS since all what you need is MORE PEN. And you get it...if you pay more.

True, but I was referring to the ammo that is generally premium vs the ammo that is generally not premium. So, in most cases that becomes an APCR/HEAT vs AP comparison.

Lord_Edge, on 06 February 2018 - 04:04 PM, said:

I don't even like those tanks, I ground the T4H to complete the line and haven't touched it since. I just like variety in my games, I don't want to play a game where everything is the same and you never need to change your tactics on the fly to deal with different threats.

I understand what you're saying w.r.t. variety, but you need balance too. Having heavily armoured tanks with a derp gun are not really variety. We have them in the same tech line from tier 6+. At tiers 9 and 10, I think we should have tanks that generally reward people who know the game mechanics. The Types don't do that. You point them straight at the enemy and derp them in the face with premium ammo. The Swedish TDs were the most recent tanks that added real variety to the game IMO.