Recently the board software has been updated and there are some known bugs/failures:
- Avatars are currently not being displayed✔ FIXED
- Tapatalk connection is currently broken✔ FIXED
- Avatars cannot be uploaded✔ FIXED

Looks very good... up next a disc version of this bike with through axles?

There is indeed a disc version of the Vial Evo coming up. It is going to be unveiled at next year's Eurobike (2014) for the 2015 lineup. Dunno about the through axles yet.Our prototype Vial (non Evo) from this year's Eurobike was still having conventional dropouts (pictures courtesy of Road.cc):

The large/56 size is actually the first to become available, which is supposed to happen by the end of February/early March.

The clinchers have in the meantime been pushed back slightly to March as well due to all the current projects, but to still become available before the next season (for us ppl from the northern hemisphere). As with our other rims they won't carry any spoke tension limit due to moulded and reinforced spoke holes. There are going to be rim brake as well as disc brake wheelsets right at launch.~Nils

Edit:I was referring to the rear dropouts of course. The front was indeed sporting a thru-axle. The final version has not yet been decided on though.

Hello Axel, I really like what you've done with the geometry on this new frame, a very sensible approach.

Given the frame's low weight are there any restrictions on the use frame, obviously apart from rider weight? For example I weigh 75kgs and occasionally I ride on the cobbled roads in Belgium. Would the frame tolerate these type of roads? Thanks.

Hi Liam,The frame does not carry any additional restrictions other than being intended "for road use". Since cobbles are part of such roads in some regions such as yours as well as also the one or other race, it is to be understood to be included in the term "road use". We are working closely together with a well-reputed German test institute to confirm our constructions by fatigue and endurance (as well as also stiffness and comfort) tests. It might eventually be that we will state an official weight limit due to product liability reasons (but this has not ultimately been decided on yet and would likely be a three digit kg figure).

As a small test of its capabilities there and without whistle-blowing too much: As far as I am aware our beloved mod Frankie-B is intending to set up a "Paris-Roubaix"-ish cyclosportive around his hometown at the time of the official road race. I intend to be using my personal Vial Evo there as well.~Nils

Hi Liam,The frame does not carry any additional restrictions other than being intended "for road use". Since cobbles are part of such roads in some regions such as yours as well as also the one or other race, it is to be understood to be included in the term "road use". We are working closely together with a well-reputed German test institute to confirm our constructions by fatigue and endurance (as well as also stiffness and comfort) tests. It might eventually be that we will state an official weight limit due to product liability reasons (but this has not ultimately been decided on yet and would likely be a three digit kg figure).

As a small test of its capabilities there and without whistle-blowing too much: As far as I am aware our beloved mod Frankie-B is intending to set up a "Paris-Roubaix"-ish cyclosportive around his hometown at the time of the official road race. I intend to be using my personal Vial Evo there as well.~Nils

Looks very good... up next a disc version of this bike with through axles?

There is indeed a disc version of the Vial Evo coming up. It is going to be unveiled at next year's Eurobike (2014) for the 2015 lineup. Dunno about the through axles yet.Our prototype Vial (non Evo) from this year's Eurobike was still having conventional dropouts

The reason i ask and bring up thu axles, especially x12 is, its much stiffer/stronger and x12 has the notches (3.5mm on both sides - hub is still a 135mm hub with 3.5mm spacers that fit into the notches ofthe frame.) that allows quicker wheel changes and perfect alignment so that the disc do not rub after a wheel change.

The reason i ask and bring up thu axles, especially x12 is, its much stiffer/stronger and x12 has the notches (3.5mm on both sides - hub is still a 135mm hub with 3.5mm spacers that fit into the notches ofthe frame.) that allows quicker wheel changes and perfect alignment so that the disc do not rub after a wheel change.

We will definitely consider such a version. As mentioned we have already been using a thru-axle up front as well, so are open for evaluation and testing of the various options. Thanks for the input though! We also already have wheels with x12 as well, but are trying hard to find the "best" performing solution for the current market situation.

First things first for now though and like that we are momentarily heavily working on the rim brake version of the "Vial Evo". Sadly it had not panned out just quite with the promised pictures of the first production frames up until last weekend. According to the current schedule the frames should still be finished this afternoon, to then be painted tomorrow, so that I should be able to take the first 'spy shots' on Thursday.

As a small technical excurse to shorten the waiting time and to give some more insights on the hidden constructional “gimmicks” (that would eventually go unnoticed otherwise), I have been grabbing a set of rear stays for demonstration.

As one probably still easily spots the left and right chainstays are asymmetrical: the left side being a lot larger in diameter than the right one. The basic shape of the chainstays appears to be quadratic, but sports rounded “edges” for an improved force flow and reduced possibility of wrinkles respectively lower resin aggregation in the edges; however in fact the stays go pretty much towards a triangular cross section.As one can see on this picture with the rear view of the chainstays the asymmetry is not only limited to the volume of the respective stays, but also applies to the general shape of them: The right side has a more distinct vertical ovalization in order to counteract the chain tension on this side.On its outside there also is a visible bulge to make room for the small chainring without taking too much volume out of the chainstay – as one can still easily see the general dimensions of the stays are still rather traditional and slim.The stays are systematically reinforced with high modulus fibers (from motorsports) on the outside, on the inside there are special elastomer layers embedded into the laminate (a patented process from our motorsports engagement where it is applied on almost all structural parts) which effectively dampen vibrations and thus boost both fatigue resistance as well as comfort (without affecting lateral stiffness).~Nils

Sorry to flame this post, but has anyone else experienced as many problems with AX parts as me? As much as I would love a full AX bike, the various pieces I've owned have either broken or underperformed to a point where I feel like safety is being sacrificed.

Broken drive side Morpheus crankarm (shipment refused since I didn't have a receipt - understandable, however I never had a problem with cranks from campy or sram)Cracked Zeus stem (replaced)Flexy 4100 bar (sold)Soft Orion brakes (sold)

Flexible sidewalls on SR42 (sold after one ride due to paranoia)Selling my Daedalus post

I mean I still want to believe in the products as I just ordered the new rigid stem and have the bottle cage.

Granted I'm on the heavier side at 85kg, but MCFK and extralite parts have felt completely fine.

I was scoping this frame, but didn't see a rider weight limit and didn't want to play guinea pig on this item.

I was going to get the Cervelo R5, the Vial Evo is stunning! AX Lightness could have a hit on their hands If the numbers come out as AXAxel says, no manufacturing defects, and the customers service is responsive, most buyers will be happy.

..the various pieces I've owned have either broken or underperformed to a point where I feel like safety is being sacrificed.

Broken drive side Morpheus crankarm (shipment refused since I didn't have a receipt - understandable, however I never had a problem with cranks from campy or sram)

Sorry to hear about your issues Wcl4. I am aware that such stories have been told before but there have been some quite drastic changes over the past two years with us and I am convinced in stating that we have finally achieved to be having a very strong responsible team, i.e. both behind the scenes in the production as well as in front of it regarding communication and service. As I am responsible for the RMAs, I can confirm that the return rate is really minuscule with us nowadays and most of these also being mishandled (i.e. mostly overtorqued) items. In all other cases and if we find an issue we will immediately react on it on the production side of things. My colleague Dominik is really worth his money in gold here. Part of the story also being that we have moved away from targeting the lightest weight, but instead focus on usability and rideability. This not only just since yesterday but actually already over the course of the past two years. In combination with the tight cooperation with the arguably most well-reputed testing institute in Germany, it has really been a big leap. The low return rate is the best prove of that. Which on the other hand however does not mean that all items would simply have become heavier as our ~180-190 g Ultra rims disprove whilst not causing any problems at all.With your 85 kg you should not be having issues with the products however, even less so with your upcoming Rigid stem which is rated up to 95 kg and really very stiff and also plenty strong; a fact that we intend to underline with independent (laboratory) stiffness comparisons to conventional/standard products published on our homepage hopefully shortly.

Anyhow in regards of your Morpheus cranks, I can currently not follow why it would have been rejected due to a missing receipt which admittedly on paper is the standard procedure, however in practice is handled quite a bit more accommodatingly. I am really sorry for any inconvenience there and can only ask you that in case you still have the cranks to please contact me directly under WiedemannATax-lightness.de and I will be taking care for you.

_________________________________________________________

We have been updating the German part of the Vial EVO section on our homepage in the meantime with the English update to follow on Monday as well. Here you will find some more explanation and background info on the frame. We also intend to be including a "making of" section shortly to allow a peek behind the scenes how the frame is being produced and that all steps are indeed being carried out in our factory in Bavaria (from the construction over the original production up to the final finish and painting).~Nils

You will find higher quality pictures on our Flickr site: AX-Lightness - Flickr / Vial EVO 001 - here you will also be able to find high res pictures of all of our products shortly. Also we have been and will keep updating our homepage with more info on the frame, background info etc.; more info in regards to the construction, utilized material and paint will be added as we approach the official release in February/March '14: AX-Lightness Vial EVO.

Please note that the paint job is not final. We are momentarily experimenting with different types of paint and also designs. This also is directly related to the fork of choice. After a long, intensive process we have in the end been deciding for two versions of framekits:

Vial EVOThe standard version of the Vial Evo comes with 3T Rigida Stealth fork.At 340 g of an uncut weight as well as with its discreet aesthetics it fits well into the unobtrusive design of the frame and offers adequately light weight and mechanical properties for a top frameset, so that there are no sacrifices to be made in regards to weightweenism, riding safety or stability. The Vial EVO retails for € 2990.-

Vial EVO DFor a surcharge of € 500.- (total thus being € 3490.-) we also offer a "D" Version of the frameset, which is equipped with THM Scapula CT fork. Thanks to its load-bearing capacity optimised design it is very stiff laterally yet offers a noticeable comfort and combines all of that with an exceptional weight - the current benchmark on the market to go well with the central idea of our Vial EVO.That way you will also truly receive a fully "handmade in Germany" framest - the "D" in the type designation is a homage to the local country symbol of Germany. Also the frame/fork set weighs under 1000 g for all sizes respectively exactly 1 kg for size XL - and that whilst offering the best technical properties.

The frames are identical between the two (frame)kits, but may eventually receive slightly different paint jobs to accomodate the forks and to differentiate the models.

____________________________________________________________________________________________Also on a non-related note:Please also check out our homepage and Facebook.We will be sending out two teams for the Tour-Transalp next year (2014) and are still looking for a team-mate in the second team for myself.I'd be happy about any of your applications as well - more details in the respective texts. ~Nils

Hi AxAxel… this sound very promising. What would be your recommendation in terms of cranks for the bb386 bottom bracket in the Vial? I would like to use something reliable with no adapters. You mentioned Ax Morpheus, and of course I could also use FSA (which I don't like), but what are your thoughts on the new Campy Over Torque, and THM Clavicula? And a Rotor3D+? (it seems it is the only solution that I could use with a Power2Max in bb386)

Also, are you planing to include the provision for the eps v2 battery charging port?

Hi Andre, besides our own cranksets (AX Morpheus or Engage Pelton) there are actually plenty of options to choose from such as the ones from FSA, THM or Rotor that you already mention. FSA also offers adapters (or rather "shims") to allow the use of the all standard cranks (Shimano Hollowtech II, Sram/Truvativ GPX, Campagnolo UltraTorque).As our Engage Pelton uses a Specialized spline for the spider my understanding is that it should already fit the repective Power2Max spider. I will try to look into it and test it shortly. Also apparently both the Tune as well as BOR cranks should be compatible with Power2Max and BB386 as well, so definitely is the Rotor 3D+ that you already mention.That way we think BB386 does not limit you in the choice for your crankset yet offers some tangible advantages in regards to the design and construction of the frame.

In regards to the Campa battery charging port for the internal EPS battery: Sadly Campagnolo has been a little slow to respond to our tech inquiries with them in the initial construction phase. That way we first of all concentrated on the Di2 (besides the typical mechanical groups) and will have to test it (the position for the charging port) directly to then eventually execute the desired modifications. Should not be a big deal, but needs to be tested prior to release for sure.~Nils

Please note that the paint job is not final. We are momentarily experimenting with different types of paint and also designs. This also is directly related to the fork of choice. After a long, intensive process we have in the end been deciding for two versions of framekits:

Vial EVOThe standard version of the Vial Evo comes with 3T Rigida Stealth fork.At 340 g of an uncut weight as well as with its discreet aesthetics it fits well into the unobtrusive design of the frame and offers adequately light weight and mechanical properties for a top frameset, so that there are no sacrifices to be made in regards to weightweenism, riding safety or stability. The Vial EVO retails for € 2990.-

Vial EVO DFor a surcharge of € 500.- (total thus being € 3490.-) we also offer a "D" Version of the frameset, which is equipped with THM Scapula CT fork. Thanks to its load-bearing capacity optimised design it is very stiff laterally yet offers a noticeable comfort and combines all of that with an exceptional weight - the current benchmark on the market to go well with the central idea of our Vial EVO.That way you will also truly receive a fully "handmade in Germany" framest - the "D" in the type designation is a homage to the local country symbol of Germany. Also the frame/fork set weighs under 1000 g for all sizes respectively exactly 1 kg for size XL - and that whilst offering the best technical properties.

The frames are identical between the two (frame)kits, but may eventually receive slightly different paint jobs to accomodate the forks and to differentiate the models.

~Nils

Wow... Nice work there. Can't wait to see the final paint scheme once that is decided!!Was just wondering if there would be an option to upgrade to the THM fork for folks who have pre-ordered the framesets already?I made my order thru the good folks at starbike!

No doubt the 3T fork is nice and would no doubt serve its purpose but the draw of the THM Scapula fork is irresistable!!

Last but not least - Why didnt you guys go with the AX-6000 fork that you are producing already?Would it not be easier for you to control the quality of product? Was it because of the 85kg weight limit on the fork.

Hi Freddy,There is definitely not going to be any problem to upgrade to the "D" frameset. Starbike is really great to deal with and admittedly they had not been presented the info up front (as we didn't have the options available at that time). We will definitely and without question allow all preorderers to still decide and switch between the two versions: It for sure absolutely must not have been of your disadvantage to be having preordered early!!!

The reason not to go with our own fork is actually pretty simple and straightforward as it comes down to the fact that we do not produce a tapered fork. The Vial EVO however has explicitly been designed around a tapered fork as this bares some constructional advantages that we wanted to exploit. We have actually had the plans for our own tapered fork for quite a while, but in the end decided against it as thanks to our kind relation to THM-Carbones we have the access to their Scapula CT fork which for itself as mentioned before already fulfills all our demands on a top product. THM's quality does not leave anything to be desired either, so an explicit in-house production seemed even less of a necessity. Instead it would have bound quite some capacities with us (capacities that we prefer to deploy on other imminent projects such as the road clinchers). Also we did not expect the (after-)market chances for such a fork to be any significant in times of design, finish and paint matched fork and frame kits, different tapered standards and also with disc brakes right around the corner. Eventually we will see an own project in this field sooner or later instead. For now we are really happy to have teamed up with THM and to be able to offer the benchmark of a fork with a frame that hopefully sets a new benchmark as well. Cheers Nils

* Just for the record we of course also have a fork with a higher weight limit, the Helios (110kg). It does not come as tapered version either though.

Who is online

You cannot post new topics in this forumYou cannot reply to topics in this forumYou cannot edit your posts in this forumYou cannot delete your posts in this forumYou cannot post attachments in this forum