Your phrasing mighta been a little off but if this statement taken as is, is incorrect, the dot stacks, you don't lose dps.

And as you correctly stated; SV spams ES, therefore you wont be delaying it until high stacks of renaktais or low stacks of ebon and will come down to the RNG of the procs and your LnL.

Ebon isn't an awful trinket, mastery isnt "a really bad stat", all secondaries are rather close. It just so happens that multistrike > secondary stats, almost to the point that haromms is barely behind ebon for BM. (And you can't time ebon like you could with renaktais for those big KC's)

As stated: Assurance BiS for all specs.

Explosive shot snapshots your current stats, so you do infact override your large ticks of explosive shot with weaker ones as you spam it.

Explosive shot snapshots your current stats, so you do infact override your large ticks of explosive shot with weaker ones as you spam it.

Last I checked, explosive shot used the ignite mechanic, which rolls the damage left from your previous DoT onto the new one when applying it, so you wouldn't lose any damage left from the previous explosive shot's ticks when applying a new one (the damage added in from the new one would snapshot your current stats however). Have you done some recent testing which indicates this has changed?

Explosive shot snapshots your current stats, so you do infact override your large ticks of explosive shot with weaker ones as you spam it.

Two other people already answered, but just to drive it home, this is incorrect. Explosive Shot rolls the new damage of the incoming shot entirely into the existing shot, you never lose damage or change the damage of ESs already on the target. It used to work the way you describe here way back in Wrath and part of Cata, which is why you had to do ES-filler-ES-filler-ES for LnL procs.

Two other people already answered, but just to drive it home, this is incorrect. Explosive Shot rolls the new damage of the incoming shot entirely into the existing shot, you never lose damage or change the damage of ESs already on the target. It used to work the way you describe here way back in Wrath and part of Cata, which is why you had to do ES-filler-ES-filler-ES for LnL procs.

No, the reason you had to do that back then was because you would lose ticks on your explosive shot. Explosive shot DOES snapshot your stats at the time your press the ability, so casting another explosive shot right after one another with TED will refresh your dot with a weaker one, as the agility proc goes down. You will not lose ticks, but the 400k explosive shot ticks from the first one will be overriden by the 350k explosive shot ticks in the second one. You do not lose ticks, but your original 400k explosive shot ticks will now be re-snap shotted to a weaker value due to the decreasing agility proc.

I'm fairly certain this is how it works, if not, my apologies, but it was my understanding that this was quite a factor in why SV hunters choose Haromms > TED.

Okay, just spend some time at training dummy, unequipped legendary cloak and other trinket, cloak so my combat log isn't full of it's procs and other trinket so i won't get unwanted agi procs. I used wind serpent for magic debuff and had hunter's mark on target. Waited so that my double upgraded heroic Ticking Ebon Detonator (aka TED) will proc instanty, used freezing trap at training dummy for quaranteed lock'n load proc and this is what i got (I removed all the direct explosive shot hits and autoshot hits). These are all back to back explosive casts.

We all see I failed to use explosive shot that moment lock and load procced, dunno was i casting cobra shot, out of range, low on focus or what, cba to check whole logs to see what I was doing those missed moments.

E. Im not sure why training dummy damage is so fucked up, might be scopes proc, dunno since it's only agi proc I don't keep an eye on, but actual log from raid tell's me that it's doesn't work like warlock dots, but works like ignite.

No, the reason you had to do that back then was because you would lose ticks on your explosive shot. Explosive shot DOES snapshot your stats at the time your press the ability, so casting another explosive shot right after one another with TED will refresh your dot with a weaker one, as the agility proc goes down. You will not lose ticks, but the 400k explosive shot ticks from the first one will be overriden by the 350k explosive shot ticks in the second one. You do not lose ticks, but your original 400k explosive shot ticks will now be re-snap shotted to a weaker value due to the decreasing agility proc.

I'm fairly certain this is how it works, if not, my apologies, but it was my understanding that this was quite a factor in why SV hunters choose Haromms > TED.

When you clip Explosive Shot it rolls the damage remaining into the next 3 ticks. Yes it does snapshot your stats but it doesn't override your previous dot strength.

No, the reason you had to do that back then was because you would lose ticks on your explosive shot. Explosive shot DOES snapshot your stats at the time your press the ability, so casting another explosive shot right after one another with TED will refresh your dot with a weaker one, as the agility proc goes down. You will not lose ticks, but the 400k explosive shot ticks from the first one will be overriden by the 350k explosive shot ticks in the second one. You do not lose ticks, but your original 400k explosive shot ticks will now be re-snap shotted to a weaker value due to the decreasing agility proc.

I'm fairly certain this is how it works, if not, my apologies, but it was my understanding that this was quite a factor in why SV hunters choose Haromms > TED.

No. Please stop confusing people.

Damage from previous ES's just keep rolling into the next one *ignite mechanic* style.

So, if you are using TED and it procs, any ES fired after the proc will get the huge boost and then start to come back down to normal, BUT IT HAS NO EFFECT ON THE SHOTS PREVIOUSLY FIRED - EITHER ON THE SHOTS FIRED BEFORE THE PROC OR ON SHOTS FIRED DURING IT.

Survival Hunters choose Haromm's because they can actually use the +damage proc effectively.

BM hunters only take TED because Haromm's does not proc on pet attacks. Not because TED is a good trinket.

I think the confusion lies in that when you lose a proc, your next ES ticks *will* be lower. But it's still an averaging of two ES casts (the strong one and the weaker one) to produce a tick amount which is lower than the strong, proc-heavy ES, but much higher than a non-proc ES tick would be.

ES ticks roll into each other. This means the previous ES's damage remaining is rolled into a new 4 tick ES with the new ES, and averaged out over the 4 ticks. End of story.

I think the confusion lies in that when you lose a proc, your next ES ticks *will* be lower. But it's still an averaging of two ES casts (the strong one and the weaker one) to produce a tick amount which is lower than the strong, proc-heavy ES, but much higher than a non-proc ES tick would be.

ES ticks roll into each other. This means the previous ES's damage remaining is rolled into a new 4 tick ES with the new ES, and averaged out over the 4 ticks. End of story.

When you cast ES which then refreshes an ES on the target, this first Hit is based on the snapshot at the time of the cast and the next 3 ticks are used to roll the damage together.

Trinket Up

1st ES Hit 120k
ES Tick 1 120k

Trinket Drops

2nd ES Hit 60k and Refreshes ES

The next 3 ticks are made up with the tick missed from the last ES (120k) + the 2 (60k)ticks from the new ES

120k + 60k + 60 / 3 = 80k ticks

ES Tick 1 80k
ES Tick 2 80k
ES Tick 3 80k

If none of them crit the damage is exactly the same, the rng comes down to which hit/ticks crit.

If you lose Lock and Load just before your trinket drops and your current ES is one which has been refreshed with 3 ticks then you may gain some damage by delaying your last non Lock and Load ES cast as the big ticks have a chance to crit.

If you still have Lock and Load when the trinket drops then your better off to keep spamming ES to increase the chances of having a larger chain of ES spam. Even though your ticks will be smaller they will still be bigger than a totally new ES on the target and hence allowing you to build them up to bigger ticks faster and hence do more damage in the long run.

Ebon Detonator is perfectly fine for SV with a number of Survival hunters doing top parses with it. I would still choose Haromm's Talisman for SV and use the Detonator for BM.

If this guy is correct, wouldn't it be possible? I'm not sure how long it would take, but it'd just go higher and higher.

In theory, it should be possible. Statistically, it's impossible.

You'd be required to have Lock and Load proc off of Black Arrow perfectly after the LnL ICD ends for an extended period of time. You would also 'lose' some damage every 20 seconds while you take the GCD to refresh Black Arrow (though I believe you would still be slowly accumulating damage, assuming perfect proccing).

Back-of-napkin math suggests that getting to 2 million ticks would take about 20 to 25 minutes of constant LnL procs (accounting for damage lost to Black Arrow refreshes).

You'd be required to have Lock and Load proc off of Black Arrow perfectly after the LnL ICD ends for an extended period of time. You would also 'lose' some damage every 20 seconds while you take the GCD to refresh Black Arrow (though I believe you would still be slowly accumulating damage, assuming perfect proccing).

Back-of-napkin math suggests that getting to 2 million ticks would take about 20 to 25 minutes of constant LnL procs (accounting for damage lost to Black Arrow refreshes).