Icy Veins have great lists in their class guides, not just the absolute BiS but ratings for all the gear you can get on the way. Can't say if they are accurate but I reckon they're good enough until your gear gets so good you want to start simming.

Icy Veins is sort of a 90% solution: what it offers is "good enough" but not "great." I use it for alts I don't plan on raiding with, but I wouldn't use it for a main.

AskMrRobot is awesome... if you manually go in and adjust the stat weights and caps properly: it's default weights are highly suspect on every class I've checked. With that said, if you do manage to set up the weights properly, it's a great tool. I'll leave it as an exercise for the serious student to actually find out what those weights/caps should be...

SimulationCraft is a very good simulation. Any simulation, of course, is only as good as the underlying model... but SimCraft has a great reputation along these lines. (I use it for my 11/16 heroic 'lock, if that helps.)

Hey there, I'm from Ask Mr. Robot and want to explain how our BiS lists work. Everything we do is customized to YOUR stat weights and options, including the BiS list. If you weight Haste above Mastery, we'll pick different gear than if you weight Mastery above haste (made up priorities). We also take caps into account when looking at the BiS list - so if your gear set gets you so far above the hit cap that you can't reforge out of enough hit to drop you down to the cap, we'll choose different pieces. We also factor in the reforge, gem, and enchant options when deciding what item is best. And of course, if you select 'pre-raid' gear in the options menu, we'll pick a BiS list of items you can get without ever going into a raid. And so on, and so forth.

As for our stat weights: we generate those using a program that interfaces with SimC. We generate real gear sets, run it through simC, get the stat weights, generate more gear sets, etc. We continue to do this until we find a stable set of weights that works across most high-end gear. However, sometimes there's a break point where you need different weights depending on... say a set bonus. In those cases we provide 2 stat weight options.

Now, if you SIM your gear, you will get different stat weights than what we have. Which makes sense - we can't offer stat weights specific to every single character. But they should be in the ballpark and gems/reforges should not change around too much. If things change dramatically, let me know so we can revisit our defaults.

As for SimC vs AMR: As people have said, they are different tools. SimC is an AWESOME simulator that spits out damage, stat weights, etc. We use them to generate our stat weights. Then Mr. Robot optimizes your stuff.

Hey there, I'm from Ask Mr. Robot and want to explain how our BiS lists work. Everything we do is customized to YOUR stat weights and options, including the BiS list.

That's not how BiS works and something you should be more clear about. There is no such thing as individual stat weights in a BiS list. All numbers look the same for everyone. We also want to aim for the exact same items when going for BiS.

Bonkura, I disagree. For example, for affliction locks, some want to be hit capped and some don't (you get more DPS if you aren't hit capped as an affliction lock, one of the few classes like that). Our site gives you a BiS list based on YOUR preferences. This also lets you get a BiS list for LFR gear only, or normal mode only, in case you aren't on a heroic raid team.

Also, take another example: if you're not a jewelcrafter, you might end up with a different BiS set. If you're a draenai and you get 1% hit, you'll have a different BiS list as well. This list goes on.

I don't go for BiS lists, I go for "gear what I'd like to have", for example, I like staves more than MH+OH. I know, MH+OH might be better statwise, but I just like having one item on those slots
Also, requires 1500 less VP to upgrade

In theory, their optimizer would be great if their algorithms worked. But they don't.

In Cataclysm late DS, I went into AMR and put in some stat weights. It gave me an (incorrect) "best in slot" list. I then manually rearranged the items and gems to get a higher stat score (based on my custom weights) than what AMR's "optimizer" algorithms gave me.

voidspark, a lot has changed since Cataclysm What is your character realm and name, I will take a look and see how the optimizations are on your character. What stat weights are you using these days, I'll enter those as well.

voidspark, a lot has changed since Cataclysm What is your character realm and name, I will take a look and see how the optimizations are on your character. What stat weights are you using these days, I'll enter those as well.

My name and armory are on my signature. Stat weights used are Hit 5100 (hard capped), Haste 4717 (soft cap), then Mastery, then additional Haste, then Crit. I believe I used 200 for Hit, 160 for Haste (before 4717), 150 for Mastery, 140 for Haste (after 4717), then 120 for Crit. For gemming I valued Mastery, Hit both over 0.5 Intellect.

After using the new interface (gave it another shot), my main complaint is that I greatly prefer using ratings to percentage points (ratings are exact, percentage points are not). I can't find an option to use ratings.

Explanation: Raid buffed haste is significantly more difficult to set than rating haste (the rating's calculated knowing raid buffed haste, then to reforge I go backwards). Even if I had issues with the optimizer algorithm, it's difficult for me to test any improvements because I can't use ratings as soft/hard caps.

Review: Honestly, with as much criticism as I gave the site in the past, I can see it becoming a new profiler tool at minimum, if it were more user-friendly with stat ratings over results (I don't even know if the hard cap for reforging is "raid buffed" or unbuffed, but the ratings wouldn't change. Also one has to take into account whether my 10m raid group gives 5% spell haste or not). So far, Chardev, Wowhead, and other profilers are badly broken, so AMR has potential to take over.

voidspark, thanks for taking a look at it again. We have seen the request to use ratings instead of percentages, so you're not alone. Right now, we use percentages because Haste breakpoints are determined by the final percentage of Haste you're trying to reach. The theorycrafters back this out into the haste RATING needed on your gear, which causes some confusion. But let's say you don't have the 5% raid buff - you'll need even more haste rating on your gear - but you still are trying to reach the same percentage.

Here's a blog post we made about Haste. For your numbers, assuming you have the 5% raid buff, you'd want 16.654% Haste. Here's how to get that:

We don't put a cap on the number of decimal places you can go, so put in a whole bunch of them.

Anyway, that all being said, we do want to address 2 issues: 1) Making haste rating / percentage conversions available and 2) letting people select/deselect the haste raid buff. So keep an eye out for future updates that make that part easier