You know, I was a Jehovah's Witness for pretty much the first 16 years of my life. I can't remember a day, an hour or even a second, before I ran away that I wasn'r awear of the idea that God was everywhere and effected everything. I can't remember ever asking myself why bad things happen and even when I was getting older, it never dawned on me to think about the existence of dinosaurs on our world and, probably a whole myriad of, IN YOUR FACE questions that seemed to debunk some of the so-called truths of Christianity. I just excepted the whole thing fit together and excepted the whole thing as carved in stone truth.

Is this child abuse? since many are taught that the rest of the world is somehow disturbed and should be looked at as a tainted place and the people in it somehow lost and without guidance. This cements the idea that without a God those around you have absolutly nothing to show them how to act and how to treat people. It also places the image that those outside your religion, which includes other religions are in dire physical peril, which only God can relieve.

I'd like to ask you guys 2 questions.

(1) Is this not Child Abuse?

(2) Does this level of indoctrination remind you of the mindset you'd think more attributed to the relationship between a highly addicted addict and hi/her drug of choice?

I do think it is child abuse in a sense probably more in line with child neglect. I was raised in a very sheltered way. I wasn't taught about critical thinking, I had no idea what the real world was like. I joined the military and that's when I was flooded with a massive influx of information. I was lied too my complete child life. I wasn't given the chance to explore or widen my education (we didn't have internet back then either). I don't feel sorry for myself, I was able to escape. You will find that some people (atheists) won't see it as child abuse but they will see another cult as such. It's tough to accept things as they are, but this applies to everyone. No matter how many times you say it, it still doesn't change the fact.

It does remind me of an addiction in a way. Since I've never used any illegal drugs I can't really respond to this question.

(09-04-2012 08:29 AM)Clint Barnett Wrote: I do think it is child abuse in a sense probably more in line with child neglect. I was raised in a very sheltered way. I wasn't taught about critical thinking, I had no idea what the real world was like. I joined the military and that's when I was flooded with a massive influx of information. I was lied too my complete child life. I wasn't given the chance to explore or widen my education (we didn't have internet back then either). I don't feel sorry for myself, I was able to escape. You will find that some people (atheists) won't see it as child abuse but they will see another cult as such. It's tough to accept things as they are, but this applies to everyone. No matter how many times you say it, it still doesn't change the fact.

It does remind me of an addiction in a way. Since I've never used any illegal drugs I can't really respond to this question.

I'm a recovering alcoholic and I can tell you that when you are addicted to a drug, any drug then you loose a lot of the sense of the real world. You begin to see that drug as a suit of clothes that you love and can't cope reasonably with the rest of the world without it. Have you ever seen people who can't function properly without that first cup of coffee? It's like superman's red cape. You are not the person you are, without it and If anyone steps in between you and it, then they are totally, absolutely, 100% wrong. They don't know you and they are being a d&$k for keeping it away from you.

Religious people get so much euphoria from the mentioning of God, it is almost like seeing a junkie take his first hit of the day, and they want others to feel the same jolt that they actively come around push their faith on others. I don't really think it's about the everlasting life bit, more than it is the sharing of that euphoric feeling.

What really gets me is they think that others don't have any impetus to move their lives foreword or desire for a better world without the guidance of religion. This, I think is what truly is the matter with all religions. It's not that they think they are better, but they think the rest of the world will colapse around themn, if they weren't there to prop it up.

I don't know that addiction is the right word, but indoctrination may be better. I used to work with a young woman that was raised as a JW. She is a very bright person and she started to question a lot of things in the religion. Her marriage wasn't working out and she got a divorce, was dis-fellowed and left her very young daughter with her husband because she thought that she had to let her daughter remain in the faith.

When we worked together she was in the midst of trying to totally break the bonds of the JW faith. Often, my jaw was on the floor as she would describe some of the rules of that faith. I began to try to research so I could better understand what she was fighting and wanting to save her then pre-teen daughter from. I was so shocked when I would search JW online and time after time what came up were articles about people trying to get out. The stories told of a controlling, cult existence.

The saddest thing I heard from my friend was that she was actually kind of glad that her grandmother had Alzheimer's because if she didn't, she would not be able to visit her in her final days. Her grandmother didn't remember any more that she was not to deal with her heretic granddaughter.

Luckily she escaped and finally got her daughter back so that she can have a normal teen age experience, attend college, have birthday celebrations, and so much more. I know she still has pangs of anxiety when the old brain-washing crops up but overall, she made it out and saved her daughter.

Child abuse...yes. Kids are restricted from so much in that faith and education is to be limited to what you have to have to provide for you family. Too much education is a bad thing, you might start questioning the beliefs. Add that to being forbidden to interact with those that have left the faith...even when it's a parent and you surely have abuse.

(09-04-2012 08:53 AM)Anjele Wrote: I don't know that addiction is the right word, but indoctrination may be better. I used to work with a young woman that was raised as a JW. She is a very bright person and she started to question a lot of things in the religion. Her marriage wasn't working out and she got a divorce, was dis-fellowed and left her very young daughter with her husband because she thought that she had to let her daughter remain in the faith.

When we worked together she was in the midst of trying to totally break the bonds of the JW faith. Often, my jaw was on the floor as she would describe some of the rules of that faith. I began to try to research so I could better understand what she was fighting and wanting to save her then pre-teen daughter from. I was so shocked when I would search JW online and time after time what came up were articles about people trying to get out. The stories told of a controlling, cult existence.

The saddest thing I heard from my friend was that she was actually kind of glad that her grandmother had Alzheimer's because if she didn't, she would not be able to visit her in her final days. Her grandmother didn't remember any more that she was not to deal with her heretic granddaughter.

Luckily she escaped and finally got her daughter back so that she can have a normal teen age experience, attend college, have birthday celebrations, and so much more. I know she still has pangs of anxiety when the old brain-washing crops up but overall, she made it out and saved her daughter.

Child abuse...yes. Kids are restricted from so much in that faith and education is to be limited to what you have to have to provide for you family. Too much education is a bad thing, you might start questioning the beliefs. Add that to being forbidden to interact with those that have left the faith...even when it's a parent and you surely have abuse.

Think Griswold that she was able to get her daughter out of there.

I remember the time I found out how they go about printing their magazines and tracts. They have people who actually live and print their material and supposedly they live like trolls in New York and live, eat, sleep the religion, night and day. They have uniforms they were and live like monks. That's plain nuts.

Child abuse - if you use kids to go door to door like JW it's obvious to me.

Other types of religious rearing, I think it depends on individual circumstances.

Addiction - positively yes. A lot of religious people are unable to function without their imaginary friend by their side. The world is too scary to face without that crutch. The days are empty without prayer time and church. Their entire life is based on religion, without it all the coping mechanisms are gone. Typical addiction.

Science is the process we've designed to be responsible for generating our best guess as to what the fuck is going on. Girly Man

Dom, I agree that it's an addiction for those that decide they NEED it to get through the day. A crutch, just like a drug. I also think religion is often used as a cop-out...you don't have to think and make decisions for yourself, you let the church do your thinking for you or you go with the "God has a plan he just hasn't revealed it yet" excuse.

But for those that are brain-washed and don't even realize it, there must be another name for that. Especially for the young who have been restricted from looking outside of the strict guidelines of their parents' faith for answers.

Yes, this is child abuse.
Just today I went after a philosophy professor who didn't like my position on religious freedom. Not any. Religion should be outlawed.
He said, "Do you think that you can tell me that I can't raise my child in the church?"
My answer was, No, but only because legally I can't stop parents from abusing their own children with false beliefs of the world.
But, if I could take his kids away I would. One day we will not allow people to brainwash their kids like this.
Some are affraid that the state will then do the brainwashing if the church is not brainwashing. And that's worse?
I believe the future of the world is in the balance and religion is my biggest concern.
This is a radical position I admit, but one that we must begin discussing.

The old gods are dead, let's invent some new ones before something really bad happens.