The Initiative.

Certain people are trying to entice WoW multiboxers to play EVE now that the follow command was removed from battlegrounds. I'm wondering how long it will be before we start seeing threads describing how these WoW refugees are receiving a real New Eden welcome

Link?

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

State War Academy

Caldari State

Automation = No one at keyboard. Software makes decisions or follows a script and continues interacting with the game client without user input.

Automation DOES NOT mean "no one at keyboard" or "without user input"

Quote:

au•to•ma•tion (ˌɔ təˈmeɪ ʃən) n. 1. the technique, method, or system of operating or controlling a process by highly automatic means, as by electronic devices, reducing human intervention to a MINIMUM.

Furious Enterprises

Automation = No one at keyboard. Software makes decisions or follows a script and continues interacting with the game client without user input.

Automation DOES NOT mean "no one at keyboard" or "without user input"

Quote:

au•to•ma•tion (ˌɔ təˈmeɪ ʃən) n. 1. the technique, method, or system of operating or controlling a process by highly automatic means, as by electronic devices, reducing human intervention to a MINIMUM.

EverBroke Geeks

I multibox but don't use ISboxer. I accept that using ISboxer doesn't "break the rules" but I do think it violates the spirit of the game and as such I'd ban it. I think that multiboxing has enough advantages "as is" without making things easier.

If CCP were genuinely in favour of programs like ISboxer they would have made their own in-game version and made you train up skills to use it. Just because ISboxer doesn't violate the EULA currently doesn't mean that CCP like it either. Given that you pay for the advantage of using multiple characters I expect CCP will introduce a charge or cost for the convenience and advantages over multiboxing that ISboxer has because that's EVE; you want convenience - you pay for it and you can have it.

Game Masters

C C P Alliance

CCP Stillman recently wrote a dev blog about client modifications and our stance towards them. The dev blog also touched on the subject of third-party programs and I feel it is very relevant to the discussion in this thread. I encourage those of you who haven't read it to give it a look, this blog actually makes for great coffeetable reading and those of you who've already indulged may even want to print out your very own copy to share with friends and family!

Multiboxing is not inherently in violation of our EULA, a player is not breaking the EVE game rules by virtue of simultaneously operating multiple accounts alone. Multiboxing software can however be in violation of the EULA.

CCP can and will not officially endorse or condone specific pieces of third-party software and ISBoxer is no exception to this. I will make this very clear: CCP does not officially endorse ISBoxer or any other multiboxing software. Use of third-party programs is, as outlined in Stillman's blog, done entirely at your own risk and we'll quite simply not be able to state outright that this software or that software can be legitimately used under the EVE EULA since they are after all third-party programs.

Let us make an example to illustrate why:

'Hypothetical Software v1.0' is released to the joy of all and is eventually endorsed by CCP as a fine supplement to EVE; the program is officially declared to not be in violation of the EVE EULA/ToS. Some weeks later, the developers of 'Hypothetical Software' releases an update, version 1.1, an update which adds macro mining functionality to the program's existing features. Automating the mining portion of the game is obviously in violation of the EVE EULA so use of 'Hypothetical Software' would suddenly become a EULA violation despite prior endorsement by CCP.

There are a lot of great third-party developers creating fantastic tools to supplement the EVE experience and this is all fine and dandy. As EVE grows, so does the amount of third-party programs developed for EVE and we cannot realistically review and condone these tools on an individual basis and use of such programs is therefore done at your own risk.

We can prohibit and warn against the use of software which we know without a doubt to contain components which violate the EULA. Any program which enables the Autopilot to 0 client modification falls under this for example: if you use a piece of software which enables you to autopilot to 0, you can expect a permanent suspension of your account as you are in gross violation of the EULA.

In addition to CCP Stillman's blog which I linked at the top of this post, I'd also like to bring your attention to the following page which outlines our official policy on third-party programs:Third-party policies

But why would you want to do that? If multiboxing is valid gameplay, then why limit yourself with how you can multibox?

Managing skill plans is a bit tedious and a lot of players use EveMon to manage their skills. Do you also have a problem with EveMon?

Managing skills is valid gameplay.

Keeping track of a bunch of players is difficult so a lot of people use sites such as evewho.com. Do you have a problem with people who use evewho.com?

Keeping track of other players is valid gameplay.

Keeping track of market prices is difficult so a lot of people use market web sites to get market information. Do you have a problem with market web sites?

Watching market prices is valid gameplay.

The in game map doesn't have all the information people would like it to have so they use sites such as dotlan. Do you have a problem with dotlan?

Looking at the map is valid gameplay.

Managing ship fitting is difficult so a lot of people use ship fitting software such as EFT? Do you have a problem with 3rd party ship fitting tools?

Managing ship fittings if valid gameplay.

I think the real problem here is you want multiboxing to be hard because you just don't like multiboxing. Well you are entitled to your opinion, but I will state it again:

Multiboxing is valid gameplay.

Evemon, Dotlan, Eve Central, EFT, and others are Third party apps which CCP stated is against the EULA. Now CCP also stated that they are only going after people using 3rd party Apps that give them an unfair advantage in the game. That said, like CCP has stated over & over, use all those third party apps AT YOUR OWN RISK.

So your point of valid gameplay is wrong. You choose to play the game using those tools, then you choose to take the risk of being banned because you are breaking the EULA technically.

R.I.P. Vile Rat

Imperial Academy

Amarr Empire

CCP Stillman recently wrote a dev blog about client modifications and our stance towards them. The dev blog also touched on the subject of third-party programs and I feel it is very relevant to the discussion in this thread. I encourage those of you who haven't read it to give it a look, this blog actually makes for great coffeetable reading and those of you who've already indulged may even want to print out your very own copy to share with friends and family!

Multiboxing is not inherently in violation of our EULA, a player is not breaking the EVE game rules by virtue of simultaneously operating multiple accounts alone. Multiboxing software can however be in violation of the EULA.

CCP can and will not officially endorse or condone specific pieces of third-party software and ISBoxer is no exception to this. I will make this very clear: CCP does not officially endorse ISBoxer or any other multiboxing software. Use of third-party programs is, as outlined in Stillman's blog, done entirely at your own risk and we'll quite simply not be able to state outright that this software or that software can be legitimately used under the EVE EULA since they are after all third-party programs.

Let us make an example to illustrate why:

'Hypothetical Software v1.0' is released to the joy of all and is eventually endorsed by CCP as a fine supplement to EVE; the program is officially declared to not be in violation of the EVE EULA/ToS. Some weeks later, the developers of 'Hypothetical Software' releases an update, version 1.1, an update which adds macro mining functionality to the program's existing features. Automating the mining portion of the game is obviously in violation of the EVE EULA so use of 'Hypothetical Software' would suddenly become a EULA violation despite prior endorsement by CCP.

There are a lot of great third-party developers creating fantastic tools to supplement the EVE experience and this is all fine and dandy. As EVE grows, so does the amount of third-party programs developed for EVE and we cannot realistically review and condone these tools on an individual basis and use of such programs is therefore done at your own risk.

We can prohibit and warn against the use of software which we know without a doubt to contain components which violate the EULA. Any program which enables the Autopilot to 0 client modification falls under this for example: if you use a piece of software which enables you to autopilot to 0, you can expect a permanent suspension of your account as you are in gross violation of the EULA.

In addition to CCP Stillman's blog which I linked at the top of this post, I'd also like to bring your attention to the following page which outlines our official policy on third-party programs:Third-party policies

Use of third-party programs is, as outlined in Stillman's blog, done entirely at your own risk and we'll quite simply not be able to state outright that this software or that software can be legitimately used under the EVE EULA since they are after all third-party programs.

Tippia wrote:

Kyt Thrace wrote:

Evemon, Dotlan, Eve Central, EFT, and others are Third party apps which CCP stated is against the EULA.

…that they cannot officially say that any given third-party software is in compliance with their EULA. This is not the same thing as saying all third-party software breaks the rules. They can be pretty specific about which software most definitely isn't allowed, because its functionality inherently goes against the EULA, but that's something completely different.

So no, they really haven't.

Gallente Defence Evaluation Research Agency

…that they cannot officially say that any given third-party software is in compliance with their EULA. This is not the same thing as saying all third-party software breaks the rules. They can be pretty specific about which software most definitely isn't allowed, because its functionality inherently goes against the EULA, but that's something completely different.

So no, they really haven't.

Its fair to say that tools like EVEMon, EFT etc, are consumers of data from CCP published interfaces, they in no way influence the game nor can they be modified to influence the game.

IsBoxer to me is like Tax avoidance, Legally Ok, but there is a question over the morality of using it. Personally I dont have a problem with IsBoxer's unless it starts to get massively abused.

Perkone

Caldari State

Basically CCP said, it's ok to use as it stands now, but nothing stops the owner from releasing an update that contains code breaking the EULA. If you then update and use it, you are breaking the EULA and CCP will ban you for using it, this will be harder to do when CCP first said they endorsed the program, that is why they don't.

Let say CCP officially endorses this program, and ISboxer releases an update that breaks the EULA, then you are arguably safe to use this program, as long CCP doesn't officially state ISboxer is no longer officially endorsed because it now breaks the EULA.

Just facts now:

Nobody got banned from using isboxer yet, many people claimed to use it, so at this exact time, it hasn't been considered against the EULA YET, and it MIGHT never be.

Ministry of War

Amarr Empire

I can put a lot more nails into a piece of wood with a hammer than with my thumb. I don't call a hammer automation.

Of course.

And using a pneumatic hammer to drive 20 nails in with 1 trigger press would be automation.

This post has been signed by Murk Paradox and no other accounts, alternate or otherwise. Any other post claiming to be this holder's is subject to being banned at the discretion of the GM Team as it would violate the TOS in regards to impersonation.
Signed, Murk Paradox. In triplicate.

Atomic Core Industries and Science

I dont think using ISBoxer or similar tools is immoral. If something is allowed it consequently is also moral. There is no excuse not to use the tools that are given you to progress in the game or, on a larger scale in live.However I do believe CCP should forbid the use of multiboxing software, because in my believe it adds a feature to the game that is rather silly and has bad influence on the economy. In my opinion, Eve would be a better game without multiboxing, because those players would have to think more on better applied tactics and not on buying a stronger computer and rush an npc site with 10 ships.

Its just, to me it doesnt feel like *playing* Eve anymore, but rather like a very gross circumvention of game mechanics.

So please CCP, rethink your stance towards multiboxing and ban those programs in the future.