If this is your first visit, be sure to
check out the FAQ by clicking the
link above. You may have to register
before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages,
select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.

Re: Class basketball being reconsidered?

I disagree with the notion that single class means the small schools cannot win anything of significance.

With single class, the sectionals were heated, local rivalries. If a small school pulled off an upset, or in fact won their sectional, they were local sports heroes for life, to a greater extent than they would be today when advancing much further but "in their class"

The poster "pacertom" since this forum began (and before!). I changed my name here to "Slick Pinkham" in honor of the imaginary player That Bobby "Slick" Leonard picked late in the 1971 ABA draft (true story!)

Re: Class basketball being reconsidered?

I disagree with the notion that single class means the small schools cannot win anything of significance.

With single class, the sectionals were heated, local rivalries. If a small school pulled off an upset, or in fact won their sectional, they were local sports heroes for life, to a greater extent than they would be today when advancing much further but "in their class"

Yeah, that's how it was in New Castle, too. As a kid it was instilled in me that sections were a big deal.

The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Hicks For This Useful Post:

Re: Class basketball being reconsidered?

As much as I wish it were legit and they really would do what the people want, I still think it's a big tug job and they're going to do whatever they want to do. I'm afraid it's too late to go back to single class, so I'm thinking some type of hybrid system.

http://www.grantland.com/blog/the-tr...nce-stephenson
"But, first, let us now praise famous moments, because something happened Tuesday night in Indianapolis that you can watch a lifetimeís worth of professional basketball and never see again. There was a brief, and very decisive, and altogether unprecedented, outburst of genuine officiating, and it was directed at the best player in the world, and that, my dear young person, simply is not done."

Re: Class basketball being reconsidered?

I disagree with the notion that single class means the small schools cannot win anything of significance.

With single class, the sectionals were heated, local rivalries. If a small school pulled off an upset, or in fact won their sectional, they were local sports heroes for life, to a greater extent than they would be today when advancing much further but "in their class"

I like how people that aren't from small schools know how the communities that do make up small school corps feel.

I graduated with a class of 76. I won back-to-back sectionals in 03 and 04. Our community rallied behind us fully. When you have two towns with 2000 people each, and maybe another 1000-1500 spread out in the country, and 2500-3000 travel two hours away to your regional games, I don't think you could ask for much more support.

And that's what we took to Tipton in 2003 and to Frankfort in 2004.

In 2009 we went to semi-state and brought a little more to Huntington North. When you're actually in the community, and see almost literally everyone you know, it changes your perspective a bit.

I've said this multiple times in the multiple threads we've discussed this. You guys really should go out to 1A and 2A games during sectionals and regionals and see the excitement first hand.

Re: Class basketball being reconsidered?

Yeah, what's the typical graduating class at New Castle look like? How many students?

I graduated with 47 (including me). I consider that a small school.

I thought my class was approximately 230-ish in 2002, and I thought I heard some kid the other week saying his class was similar. I just now saw Since's link, and while I guess I can't argue with their numbers, 300 sounds a little high to me. In any case, we're not as big as you might think, though I guess I don't have much reference on it. My impression was that some schools were much bigger, but I could be wrong.

In any case, I can tell you that despite the raw numbers, New Castle doesn't exactly feel big to anyone who grew up here. It really doesn't. Anyone from here would tell you it feels like a small place, even if there are tiny places that 'look up' to us.

Regarding my previous post, my point was never to say that I thought of New Castle as a "small school", just that as a kid, during the era of the old system, winning a sectional was thought of as a big deal. I don't think many give a **** anymore (at least in comparison to how it was thought of back then). That was my only point.

Personally, I don't really care anymore. Certainly not much.

It was absolutely fun to watch them win the 3A title in 2006, but I'm not going to lie and say I watched a lot of games before or since, either. And hell, even that night when I came on to celebrate on PD, I had someone from the 4A winners school crow about being the REAL champion, which put a bit of a wet blanket on my mood even then.

Re: Class basketball being reconsidered?

To me it isn't really about the Finals, it's about the Sectionals.

I remember the Sectionals were all about beating the teams from the next town over, rivalries that were made stronger by the fact you played the teams in the regular season as well as the Sectionals. There were local bragging rights and, since all the teams were local, the house was packed and rocking.

Now a lot of schools have to travel quite a way to get enough other schools their size for a Sectional, and it isn't practical to play those schools in the regular season. Sectionals are still pretty full, but the distant teams' crowds are pretty overwhelmed by the crowd for whatever school is hosting.

County tournaments have kind of taken the place of the Sectionals for local excitement, but since those are at the beginning of the season the games aren't as good as they were when all the teams were in rhythm and had the book on one another.

BillS

A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush.
Or throw in a first-round pick and flip it for a max-level point guard...

Re: Class basketball being reconsidered?

Here's something else... If you've got a good team it's pretty much expected you'll go fairly deep in the tourney because the classes have actually watered down the competition. That's true in all classes but especially the smaller classes. Is that really accomplishing anything?

As said above, the sectionals used to mean something.

Lost in all this discussion is how the single class, winner-take-all tournament was a part of Hoosier culture. It was recognized nationally. The finals were televised on ESPN (tape delayed).

It was a source of pride for many... a symbol of the Hoosier state like the Arch is associated with St Louis.

And then one day the IHSAA decided they had a better idea. To many their reasoning sounded like "If one tournament is good just think what 3 or 4 tournaments with more parity between teams would look like!"

And lastly- While for years Milan was the symbol that any school could win, that eventually got turned on its ear and they became the symbol that it had been years since a small school had won and so it was now impossible in the modern era. That ignores the deep tourney runs many small schools made in the subsequent years following Milan's win. It ignores close losses some suffered in games that could've gone either way.

And importantly, it shifted the focus to being all about winning and forgot about character building and pride and knowing you took on the best and gave them all you had.... win or lose.

Nuntius was right. I was wrong. Frank Vogel has retained his job.

------

"A player who makes a team great is more valuable than a great player. Losing yourself in the group, for the good of the group, thatís teamwork."

Re: Class basketball being reconsidered?

Yeah, that's how it was in New Castle, too. As a kid it was instilled in me that sections were a big deal.

Schools like New Castle (and Marion, Richmond, Vincennes Lincoln, Kokomo, etc.) are the reason Indiana has class basketball. One big school hosting a sectional with 5 small schools in which the big school won at least 9 out of 10 years.

The best solution would be to have a hybrid system for the sectionals, and bring all the schools back together for regionals, and leave semi-state and state alone.

For the record, I was for class sports when it began, and even though my alma mater won 2 state championships shortly after it was installed, I'd vote to go back to single class. It's a better tournament, and just more fun.