Congressman DeFazio: If we do nothing, seniors are safe and Lloyd Blankfein's taxes go up!

Right on!!!!

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“On Jan. 1, if we do nothing, seniors get a full COLA … and Lloyd Blankfein pays more in taxes,” DeFazio said, referring to the head of Goldman Sachs. “If we do nothing, seniors don’t get stuck with this deal.”

40. Doing nothing

is not an option for the millions of us that will pay more in taxes, I can't afford it.... Will Obama force my employer to give me a raise? I didn't think so, this over the cliff idea is the worst idea I ever heard of, I expect more from the Democratic lawmakers... and you should too.

47. Then I guess "they" have already won

"they" have us, you and me, who basically agree that the poorest and most vulnerable should be
highest priority, "they" have US bickering over the crumbs, over which cuts are worse for whom, etc

This "Chained CPI" is a thinly disguised shell game to steal money from people on Social Security.
This is something the GOP has only dreamed of doing for fucking decades, and now you want me
to cheer Obama on while he gives this up, after winning a landslide 2nd term as POTUS?

This is why people get so damn turned off to politics, it's always "heads I win, tails you lose",
or almost always, the 1% sits behind the fray, laughing their asses off all the way to the bank.

For just now, I'm going with DeFazio, Sanders and Krugman, who all are saying that at this point,
given what Obama as caved in on, it's on-balance better to go over their fucking bogus "cliff" and
have a saner, more Democratically controlled Congress fix the mess in Jan., including giving back
the middle class tax break.

51. I agree totally

As long as the taxes come back down it will be fine for my family, but I totally get your point it's like the healthcare law, who would have thought that a Democratic politician would create a boon for the insurance industry by mandating that 100 percent of the country must purchase health insurance...

Maybe people will start to get it once they have to buy it and the costs keep on increasing, there is nothing in the law that caps the industry and of course you know the more they outlay the more they will charge all of us for the insurance.... I certainly think the system will ultimately collapse but nobody cares what I think....

Yes, you'd think that would put us in a stronger position, but I can certainly envision Congressional repubs using that as a bargaining ploy to protect their millionaires and billionaires. ACTUALLY, we'd just be going back to the tax rates we had under Clinton, but of course we should be leaving the rates lower for anyone who's not wealthy.

16. I think this is where we will separate out the real Democrats from The Third Way'ers. nm

32. Yes, but

we should cease referring to Democratic agent provocateurs as "Third Way." That's the title they picked for themselves to sound as reasonable and as innocuous as possible. There is no third way in a winner take all duopoly. Third Way is the corporatist wing of the Democratic Party. They are the enemy within and should be referred to as such.

17. +1000

18. I would rather

we do something to help the senoirs, vets and the needy. We need to start taxing people like blankfein more. Also lets bring back taxing of capital gains. what I would really like is 4 all congressmen to not receive any insurance or raises unless their constituents also get the same.

55. It's not fair and hasn't been for a long time

but even a deal will give you the short end of the stick. I've been there, so long ago, but can still remember the anxiety and fear. In this case, I think no deal will hurt, but bring some sanity back to our government and be better in the long run. Meantime, try to prepare and good luck.

22. +1

23. Wait! In the several years I've been getting Social Security my COLA has been pathetic,

if even given. I paid in, of course, for many years, and for part of them was married to a man who was paid up early on. Even at the time, I'll admit I was glad for the extra cash for our family. At the same time I realized many of us paid on every penny of our income. Objectively, why shouldn't everyone? It's human nature to approve of anything that gives you the advantage. An ability to walk in someone else's shoes seems to have been lost somewhere with Reagan. This philosophy even affected my (same age as Reagan) father-in-law, a hard core union man who knew the struggle his father had fought, but was totally charmed by Ronnie. Government as "the enemy" is just as bad as "Big Brother."

27. "Fiscal Cliff is a myth"

42. Is it a myth?

that my tax rates are going to go up by 5 percent, is it a myth that I will lose the $800 payroll tax cut I was using to get us by in these rough economic times, is it a myth that my employer is going to force us to pay more for heatlhcare that he has to change to meet the minimum requirements of the affordable care act? Is it a myth that sequestration may force my defense contractor job to go away along with thousands of others? Is that all a myth? Oh good I feel much better now, I can buy my kids presents for Christmas and not have to worry about paying the bills I create because it was all just a myth...

52. Until we as a people........

decide to take matters into our own hands and FORCE the redistribution of the wealth that been hoarded by the 1% for the last 30 years, ANYTHING that's done is going to hurt a significant portion of the 99%. Ergo, going over the speed bump at this point, will be the LEAST painful thing that we can do. Everything else will be MORE painful either short term or long term.

And Social Security should NOT be on the table in this discussion. It has nothing to do with the budget OTHER than the fact that they don't want to pay the SS Trust Fund back the trillion plus dollars that they've "borrowed" for their tax cuts and wars.

56. How do you consider this the least painful?

I would rather my taxes not go up that is the least painful measure. See I am not asking for a tax cut or a break even though I need it but anything that happens to those of us that are barely making ends meet and there are millions of us on a macro scale that is bound to seriously impact the economy. I can't spend what I have to give to government.

60. Really?

I have been there and have people that I love that are in that position today, don't lecture me...

My point is that Democrats stick up for people that are in my position if the party has now decided that it wants nothing to do with me then it should say so loud and clear and believe me if they don't cut my taxes after this cliff I will take that as message received.

Oh and BTW have a nice Holiday, I'm sure people like you that don't really care whether their taxes go up have no stress or pressure paying you bills so good holiday's my friend. Maybe you could think of those of us that don't have it so well...

74. Really? My taxes went up

because of that deal and I still voted for Obama. Receive whatever message you want to. The middle class makes more than the poor and elderly on SS and pensions. So please understand that. Happy Holidays

76. Because of what deal

What are you talking about? It's not about receiving any message and I already voted for Obama but he didn't run on allowing our taxes to go up, is that your point, I don't know you but if you can afford all these tax increases than maybe you could help me and my kids out... PM me and let me know if you are willing to supplement my income, I will work for food or money.

43. So what is your point

I am in the same boat barely managing are we all going to chapter 7 because our tax rates go up? I am far from the safety net age sorry I just can't be onboard and I expect my President to do something about it... Is that asking too much?

50. Certainly

If we are assured that the tax cuts return for the middle class I have no problem but don't really get all the political crap involved in why it just can't be extended and then raise the rates later instead of letting it expire and lowering the rates later...

Second I wasn't drowning in the Clinton tax rates because #1 I really didn't make anywhere near 50K annual then and of course the cost of living has increased roughly 5 percent so sure if you giver me back the cost of living under Clinton then the tax rate increase would be a wash...

61. HUH?

The loss of the payroll tax credit is $800 per couple right there, 5 percent rate hike to income puts it way over 2 - 3 thousand increase in taxes for the middleclass, those on the lower rung hurt the worst... I never heard Obama say that in his campaign and I certainly would never have voted for that so take your tax hike and go enjoy you holiday, if you don't care then you obviously aren't being impacted like my family so you don't have any idea what you are talking about..

68. I have tried every "Fiscal Cliff" calculator out there and for a single person...

making between $50,000 and 70,000 a year there is about a $2000 difference. Maybe you have some kind of special information or you make a lot more money than I do. I'm at the high end of that calculation and I really am more worried about people on unemployment who are going to be left with nothing.
Try this out. Maybe it will help you calm down.
http://www.creditcards.com/credit-card-news/fiscal_cliff-calculator-1701.php

70. WHAT????

Yep I did my calculations 50K combined family of four and $2200 tax hit plus as many here keep suddenly forgetting the payroll tax exemption is being ended so that is another $800 oh and for us people with kids we have to feed our child tax credits drop by $500 per kid so ther is another $1000 so I am up to a $4000 hit now not to mention that my employer is telling us that in order for the medical plan to meet the new healthcare guidelines we may all have to fork over more money out of our checks so I am potentially facing a 5-6K hit that is insane How the hell am I going to manage $600 per month more to pay the government? How, I make too much to go on subsitance, I don't qualify for food stamps, I don't even qualify for free cell phones, I don't qualify for shit...

No one on this forum should be supporting this crap, I am seriously concerned that many are, I don't understand the end game.

Next point no deal on the cliff means that the unemployment benefits which were extended for 99 weeks will be cutoff so those people get hurt the worst by all these pro going over the cliff respondents however, people that need help still have outs, if they can't find work they qualify for many federal and state aid programs and none of those are getting cut as of now. So you tell me who get's hurt the most by this insane crap that Democrats are defending going over the cliff?

59. In the complete absence of any positive proposals, nothing is the best option. n/t

62. Wrong Wrong Wrong

Those of us that have no protection are the most vulnerable and obviously if you can afford the hit than you really don't care how high your taxes go tell the truth... I hate rich people that sit here and pass judgement on those that are barely making ends meet.... I will say it again, if you don't care about losing the payroll tax cut, and a 5 percent increase in your tax rates than obviously you have ways to manage that hit, I don't, my kids don't so don't make that decision for me, and P.S. No where in his campaign did the President say he would allow this and he still isn't talking about allowing it... so get onboard and support tax cuts for the middleclass and the Poor....

65. I am poor. Most likely much worse off than you. What I believe that you are not considering

is the fact that, while this fiscal curb will technically effect you in the short term, there are already tens of millions of us that were left behind years ago for whom nothing at all has been done, because Americans don't see anything that doesn't effect them directly.

So when you write things like this, what people in my position read is "I don't want to be in your position, so I don't care if you spend another year or two in abject poverty, just don't hurt me". If they push some crust of a loaf through, you might be alright, but poor people will be screwed more, seniors will be screwed more, and the people that caused this, the rich, will keep most of what they stole and will never have to pay anything like their share.

That's why I agree with the Congressman and Senator Sanders. No deal will force the Congress to deal with the consequences. A shitty deal allows them to ignore them.

66. B.S. you obviously

missed the part where I said I have loved ones that are in your shoes and worse, I have been in them not long ago....

So let me first to agreee that there are those that have been left behind by corporate American greeed... but,

The government has provided a safety blanket for you, you have unemployment benefits that have been extended to 99 weeks, you can get EBT benefits, Food Stamps, HUD Section 8 benefits, a cell phone....

As far as Congress dealing with the consequences, I don't beleive that the President or Congress, has adequately fixed the economy and I feel for your desire to work but until he gets serious and gets a serious stimulus package out there that can adequately address the unemployed issue than you can't force the private sector to hire anybody but you can make it as manageable as possible for those that are hurting.

Now do I beleive that those corporations and the rich in general should pay their fair share, certainly we are all subjected to the pain caused by their greed.

But I cannot afford to pay more because I do work and those benefits that I listed above are not available to me because I have income but the more the government takes out of my pocket the less I am able to spend in the economy on a macro scale that will hurt everyone.

I won't even consider believing that your true position is one of, I am hurting so you should be too.... that is just ignorant.

75. Maybe where you live that is true, and I'm sure that someone here is getting something like the

safety blanket you all talk about, but the reality is that I have none of those. As a consultant I have never qualified for unemployment and the maximum benefit here wouldn't even cover rent if I did. Single, childless men do not get food stamps here, period. Section 8 housing has a waiting list 7 years long the last time I checked and is welfare for property owners in any case and I have no idea what you're talking about regarding a cell phone.

You also simply assume that Congress has no ability to remedy the tax increase after the fact, something that would be political suicide for members of either party, and will not address it.

Do you honestly believe that hard-line conservatives like Pete DeFazio and Bernie Sanders (that was sarcasm there) don't know what the hell is really going on here?

Check you panic at the door and think for a moment before you condemn the millions like me, and and those even worse off, to more years of hell just so you can pretend you're not circling the drain as well for another year. We re in this together unless enough people like you freak out and let them get away with even more murder.

The whole point of creating the myth of a fiscal cliff is to keep people like you in line while they hide what they want within the panic. Just like they have time and time again. By convincing you that you will be alright as long as I am sacrificed, they can slip what they really want, or want to avoid, into this next "Grand Bargain".

Again, do you really think that these guys are less informed and less familiar with what is really going on than you are?

77. Save me the theatrics

if you ever walked a day in my shoes you would know exactly what I was talking about and you would know exactly how to qualify for and be getting the benefits that you claim some here have but not you. Single childless men indeed do get foodstamps if your income level is not high enough to sustain you. If you are out of work and unemployment is up you get EBT benefits.. Sect 8 housing is a long waiting list but there are public housing projects and shelters to help in the interim, or family, and if you had no income you would easily know how to get an emergency cell phone, but I see you have access to a PC, Internet, electricity even though you claim you are worse off.

My panic, well let's see it is Christmas eve, my kids are my world but this year I have to play the grinch because lawmakers can not guarantee me that I will be able to make ends meet next year, you know when you get a family you have look at the future before you can spend in the present, but I wouldn't expect you to understand that.

You say millions like you subjected to years of hell, how exactly does going over the fiscal cliff and raising taxes on me, fix that for you? It doesn't and that "we are in this together" is for political theater not reality.

Bottom line is that I hope you are right about an after the fact fix, my kids and I are counting on it.

78. So you're smarter, more experienced, and have a better understanding than DeFazio and Sanders...

Go ahead and have your fit, Odds are, that you will get your wish and we will all be screwed again. You're foolish to fall for it, but that is hardly a surprise.

I said that there are others much worse off than me and that I'm almost certainly worse off than you.

Your insistence that these programs offer adequate and available help just proves that you have no idea what the hell you're talking about. We could triple all of them and still not meet the need that exists out here.

Public housing projects? Where do you live? They no longer exist in most of the country, local politicians have been tearing them down for the last couple of decades and replacing them with condos, projects that make their friends and relatives millions. The shelters are full every night and people die every time the temperature drops too low, but that doesn't make any news, after all that would be depressing and ruin you holiday, and so you pretend it doesn't exist. Come on out here and I'll give you a personal tour of the third world conditions people like you claim don't exist. We have our own tent city just north of Fremont (so the tourists don't have to see it) where hundreds to more than a thousand people live every day that the cops don't come and destroy what little these people have scraped together out of dumpsters and the land-fill.

I'm going to continue to do alright, I've had years to adjust to the new normal and so far have always managed to make something happen to stave off the worst neglect of our society, but then I'm hardly typical. So just close your eyes and go back to sleep. Pretend the nightmare can't happen to you. I hope it doesn't. If you think a hike in your taxes that won't happen is a disaster, you won't survive it.

80. Whatever..

You talk a good game but I am originally from West Philly and my people are still there and still living in projects sure they tore down the towers years ago but they built us some nice fancy new housing they call it the estates now but it's pretty much the same. It breaks my heart everytime I go home... I really don't know about California but I am sure somewhere there is Low/no income public housing there and I'm not talking about homeless shelters they exist too and I see you referred to them as if it was the same thing, they are not.

You completely dismiss my point and just ramble on like it's perfectly fine to raise taxes on those of us that struggled out of the poverty and achieved this small piece of the American dream, when you should know it is not. Stick with punishing the rich and I a fighting right along side of you with the struggle, dip down into my modest area and try to take what is mine and I will fight you to the end.

81. Ah, there's one problem. The north east is not like any other part of the nation, yet the people

that live there just don't seem to understand that. I'm in Nevada now but LA is my adopted home and I can assure you that pretty much everywhere else in the nation is nothing like the north east. For example, with few exceptions (Chicago is the only one I know for sure) there is no public housing and generally never has been. Now, I've qualified that statement just to allow for the fact that I haven't been everywhere, but let me assure you that from Georgia to Portland to Denver to San Diego, it does not exist. There is no such thing.

I suppose the idea was to simply write checks to property owners, who inevitably become slumlords, rather than building government housing. I think both failed because once the idea got through, no attention was given to the execution. As I told you in the previous reply, section 8 housing has been turned into a massive welfare program for property owners who are universally hated by everyone from their tenants to the other owners who still live in their own houses where the neighborhoods have been ruined.

Then there are the shelters and the streets and cars and that's it, There is nothing else. Chicago tore down Cabrini Green about a decade ago (perfect example of good intentions going awry) and replaced those towers with nothing. That's it outside of the world you live in. Public housing is a myth west of the Mississippi (maybe St. Louis?).

I didn't intend to dismiss your point. OTOH I do believe that the members of the Progressive Caucus have a much better idea of what is going on and how the game inside the beltway is played than you do. When Bernie Sanders says that political reality dictates your taxes cannot be left raised, it makes sense and I believe him. I also know that there is no way that this or any other Congress in the next decade or so, can feasibly pass another tax cut for the rich unless it is hidden inside one of these package deals. If we step off the fiscal curb all of us get a minor tax increase, but much more importantly, the inheritance tax is reinstated (something which your kids will absolutely benefit from) and a 34% increase in the capital gains tax rate (something that will never get through Congress while the republicans rule the house and also something that will benefit everybody including your kids), and most importantly of all, it will force the collective Congress (both parties) to deal with all of the issues they want so desperately to duck.

And BTW, you're not the only one that struggled to rise up the ladder. In 2003 I retired because I had enough and wasn't willing to kill myself on the hamster wheel just to get more than I needed. But 'our' government decided that making billionaires was more important than a healthy middle class and enforcing the law. We can trade sob stories some other time.