Actually Jason they are very well articulated, and if you are provoked by my opinion and the logic behind it, that is outside my control I simply pointed out there is no difference, be it in moral, ethical or legal terms, between a "safe word" in the scene and a simple "stop" or "no" in the real world. If you disagree and can tell me why, by all means do so.

Rosemont IL

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Hah!

You should check out this no neck's posting history. He's an "expert" at everything and is detested by the entire forum. 50%+ of the active forum participants have this harasser blocked so that they don't have to be subjected to his vitriol.

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PP You spend so much energy trying to seem smart but you only reveal that your humble opinion is anything but humble. Your points are not very well articulated and they have an air of condescension. That makes you seem like more of a provocateur than a positive contributor to the forum. IMHO.

Green Bay WI

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Who is harassing anyone? Who called you a foolish girl, imprisoned...one who allows a man to abuse you? I never said anything close to that about you or anyone else What I said was that the "rules" of the scene simply mirror the rules of society, there is nothing mystical or magical about them There are universal "safe words"..."STOP and NO" Someone complying with them does not make them a wise and benevolent Dom, it keeps they from being charged with a felony. People who enjoy the scene should enjoy it, but lets be real, that's all I am saying.

Rosemont IL

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If you do not like or respect the lifestyle of bdsm, why are you in this forum harassing people that happen to enjoy it? You are entitled to your opinion, but do not forget. You may think I am a glutton for punishment and foolish for enjoying what I do. But I am sure that if I were to dissect your life I would probably feel the same about some things you enjoy. To say that I am a foolish girl, imprisoned...one who allows a man to abuse me.....means you do not know me. I do not know what you know about bdsm, but you surely do not know me. I do not allow any person to abuse me, what i do I do because I love it, I respect it and it makes me feel wonderful, sexual and wanted. I do not say this because I feel you are owed an explanation. I merely hope to help you open your mind a bit and understand that your view is not the view of everyone. And what you enjoy is not what everyone may enjoy.

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Jason685 The sub gets to refuse "assignments" with impunity? The sub gets to contradict their Dom in public? The Sub gets to play with other Doms at will? I could go on, but you get the idea. Mutually agreeing to not be physically assaulted against ones will is a minimum requirement for any interaction, be the folks in the scene or not. Agreeing to give up control is not being in control, just because the perimeters you have agreed are in line with the penal code against unlawful imprisonment, battery and kidnapping....IMHO of course

Rosemont IL

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IMHO, what you do is not swinging, and has nothing to do with the swing lifestyle."

I do agree with this portion of your post. I have not seen much bdsm activity in swinging other than just fooling around or in the theme play rooms. And the couples who live the bdsm lifestyle do not really talk much about it. We know 2 couples like this...and if you met them at house parties, you would never know it. For us, same thing. If at some point we return to being more active in swinging, bdsm will not be openly .

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No one suspended from a ceiling bound in shrink wrap blind folded with a ball gag is "in control" of anything, least of all the person or persons who put them there."

I understand your comment. When I was in my 20s I was completely independent and would have agreed with this statement 100%. I was the one that refused to be told what to do...and to a degree saw this as a woman "wanting" to be abused. However, I had my first experience with bdsm with a wonderful dom. He was a good dom not only because he was naturally in control, but because he made it his mission to know how I felt about all sorts of things. It was important to him that he know what I thought. And to the "naked eye" you are right. How can one say that the sub is in control, when its my ass at the end of the slap. But I have to disagree with you...as illogical as it seems, it is true. The reason why it is true is because the dom never does anything the sub does not want done. I am not referring to slaves here, I am referring to subs. The D/s have numerous, detailed conversations where it is made very clear what hard line no's are, what no's are no's but open to change, etc. And almost all D/s have safe words. If I say "red" at any time...all stops. No questions, no pouting, everything stops completely. And that is power and control. My dom will never do anything if I have made it clear that I am uncomfortable with that. There are things that are open for boundary push, yes. For me, spanking is one. Jay can tell, some nights I love spankings and ask for more. And some days, it is ill advised. The sub really does have power in the relationship.

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We are a bdsm couple who has played at hotel swing parties, where we teach and demonstrate simple bdsm play. Bedroom bondage. Simple ties and blindfolds.

My estimate is that we were of interest to 10% of the women, who came to our glass, or participated in group room bdsm play or had private sessions. These women wanted a taste of bdsm.

In general the men were only interested in observation. They did not want to learn even the simplest ways to incorporate D/s. This meant that I got to play with thei women, but the men had no clue what to do with my sub. And did not want to try. They did enjoy watching and making sure everything was safe.

So there was enough interest that we were busy every hotel party. It was fun for us, even though the bdsm was very basic and most people we beginners and/or curious. Every once and awhile some with experience would show up.

So I think there is room for some bdsm in swinging, but not a whole lot. It works for me because I like giving women their first taste of bondage and a blindfold. Show them how a cane can be their friend. Giving a woman something that has been onlly a fantasy, is very hot. Especially when a woman wants more than swinging provides.

There is nothing better than bdsm with a loose woman. Can you say "BDSM + Swing = More Fun"?

Green Bay WI

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A sub has control in the following ways: Sub gets to decide to 'play or not play' Sub gets to decide what are hard limits. Sub gets to stop scene at any time. Sub gets to decide to play again or not. Sub gets to give up control for the period of the scene.

Giving up control is a big part of what D/s is. It is a choice to play and part of that play is giving up control. No one is force to play. It is consensual on both parts.

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