Hey, I totally agree strat, about some kikass players that have played christain metal, and also about getting their point across, but the point I am making is, why was it once upon a time all this music we love was evil and was branded the devil music, pls tell me when it all changed and why, coz I dont understand these christian bands how they came about, why its all cool now to use "the devils music" to put across the msg. I am serious here, coz I would love to understand and know why and how it's came be.

PoetsandMadmen wrote:Yeah, Rock I was wondering where all this was coming from, because I really enjoyed the interview I read from a very underated vocalist, Oni Logan. He pretty much solidifies my point about rock n roll being alive in Europe too!

Since you brought up religion, I'll make a comment or two. I personally grew up listening to a few Christain hard rock/metal groups. I listened to Stryper and Deliverance mainly. Basically, I'm one of those Bible thumping yankee wankers that you are referring to above. I've been called many things dude, but never that!

I apologize in behalf of any wrong doings or bad experiences that you've had over the years with Christianity. I don't like hearing people get done wrong in the name of religion, because that is hypocritical.

Please keep in mind though, that there are those of us out here that do take our religious convictions seriously and try to live by the teachings of Jesus. By any means, Christians aren't perfect, but we simply accept Jesus Christ as our saviour. Anyone can be a Christian that simply chooses to do so. It's my belief that Christ can save anyone, and I mean ANYONE that chooses to accept him (Christ) as saviour.

As for rock/metal mixing with Christian beliefs, I don't have a problem with it, as long as the band seems to be legit. Nobody can be 100% sure about someone else's beliefs, because only the individual knows how he/she truly believes. Christian hard rock/metal is a subject that is highly debated for sure. I do have a problem with people/bands using religion as a selling or marketing point though. Personally, I do feel that there are musicians out there that are making Christian music simply for the glory of their saviour, and not to make money. On the other side of the token, I agree with you, there are fakes out there simply doing it for the money.

All in all, Christian music is a gray area, so that's why I still choose to listen to "secular" music as well. I feel like as individuals we all are entitled to our opinions, and if a musician's lyrics offend me, I simply choose not to listen. At the same time, I don't expect everyone else in the world to believe exactly like me either. We're all unique, which I think is a good thing.

There's my two cents, even though you didn't ask for it!

Well said.

Religion will always be in music in one way or another. Some people (not referring to anyone on this board) quick to denounce religion in music are the same people who go out and buy music with songs about cornholing a rooster in the name of Satan. But, let another band sing about Christian beliefs and those same people bash it for it's religious message. A lot of times it's not religion they hate...just Christianity.

Rock wrote:Hey, I totally agree strat, about some kikass players that have played christain metal, and also about getting their point across, but the point I am making is, why was it once upon a time all this music we love was evil and was branded the devil music, pls tell me when it all changed and why, coz I dont understand these christian bands how they came about, why its all cool now to use "the devils music" to put across the msg. I am serious here, coz I would love to understand and know why and how it's came be.

It's pretty much like anything else that once was slammed or discriminated against, etc. If you'll remember, people accused Ozzy of trying to encourage kids to commit suicide in the song, Suicide Solution. Ozzy was like, why would I want my fans, that are buying my records, to kill themselves? Ozzy says that it was a song written in reflection of his own life at the time. The point I'm trying to make with that is, there's always going to be someone, somewhere ready to criticize or slam what you're doing. Better yet, someone ready to completly twist around what you were trying to say to begin with. They're Christians out there that still hate the idea of Christian rock or metal, but there are those of us that don't have a problem with it. There's also people out there in the world saying you'll burn in hell for listening to rock/metal, but they're also those of us that doesn't put that much weight on what type of music style a person prefers.

Personally, I view metal as a style/genre of music as to others view it as a lifestyle. What's the difference in putting Christian lyrics to bluegrass music opposed to metal music? IMO, there's not a difference, so maybe that's where some of these haters woke up one day and realized it's ok to rock!

My "metal lifestyle" comment is meant toward people that think a band needs to do certain things in order to be considered "true" metal. I've talked to people recently that think it's ok for bands to use pentagrams, because metal should always be "evil." Why does all bands have to be "evil" in order to be taken seriously or to be considered metal? IMO, that's a narrow minded viewpoint. I don't mean to offend anyone by saying that, but it is pretty narrow minded.

Believe me though, these Christian artist take some butt kickings at times! Stryper caught hell from preachers back in the 80s, pardon the pun! One current Christian goth metal band called Saviour Machine had their show stopped by a "christian club" here in the states, because the band doesn't fit the little stereotype for typical Christian bands. Saviour Machine is a great band and you might want to check out their stuff. I must warn you, they're very different from anyone we've ever discussed on this forum though!

Personally, I feel that there are a number of Christians that play hard rock/metal in secular bands. Rob Halford, John Petrucci, Dave Mustaine, Alice Cooper, Chris Logan (Jake's Retraced vocalist), Rob Johnson, and Lance King to name a few. There's alot of people out there that think Jon Oliva from Savatage is. I'm one of them! Jon acknowledges God and Christ in numerous songs througout the Savatage cataloge. Does that mean I think Jon Oliva is perfect? Not by a long shot, but neither am I! Jon may not be a Christian, but some of his lyrics do lead me to believe that he is.

The bottom line is, just because a person claims to be a Christian doesn't mean the person doesn't know how to think for themselves or draw their own conclusions. As a Christian a person should do his/her own studying of the Bible, praying, asking God for guidance, and not to solely rely on what man or preachers tell them. In other words, just because a preacher says it, doesn't mean that it's right.

Anyway, that's just some more thoughts of mine about the subject. Feel free to agree or disagree.

Doobie wrote:Dean, you just hit the ol' nail right on the head. Well spoken, er, I mean typed.

Sorry my dial-up bumped me off right as i posted my reply...Anyway, i feel that religion in Metal has been around since the beginning. Here's my opinion....Any time you name your band Sabbath anything, you add religion to the music. and sorry Rock, but Dio added religion to his stuff the moment he had the Mephistopheles -type figure drowning a chained up priest in blood on the album cover! Now don't get me wrong I've been listening to Sabbath ever since my older sister brought home Paranoid in 1970. And I really like Dio.

What I have a problem with is the churches,...not Christian rock music. Something is wrong when you have a long haired minister making TV commercials and using heavy rock/ Metal music to drum up members. I know of a few guitarists in my area, who were not at all religious, who joined churches basically to have access to new high-end gear, a captive audience with 2 shows every Sunday, and weekly access to the local cable channels religious programming. It seems these rock n roll churches are popping up like franchises now, they even have a brand name,..and are mostly concerned with the "Show Biz" aspect of it to to draw in more "Tax Exempt" dollars. I find that very hypocritical. And what they did to my buddy (and me by association) is pretty f**ked up!.... Used on thier way up...then kicked to the curb when they were done!

Disclaimer: This is just my sole opinion and I do not intend to offend anyone.

Oh yeah, and did I mention they had him duplicating hundreds of cassettes of the Sunday "services", on his own time during the week, to sell the at the next weeks gig!

There is not blood on the cover of Holy Diver. The cover was meant to provoke, not to introduce religion. The last thing Ronnie is, is religious or evil. Same with the guys from the Sabbs. It's provocative imagery and metal bands have always used it and it's always good at getting press. It's simply used to get a reaction and get people talking. It's interpretive. Is it the devil drowning a priest? Is it good vs. evil? or is it a priest drowning Murray. (That's the Dio mascots name) Sounds pretty religious huh?

Ozzy barely wrote anything for the first 23 years of his career (that's confirmed up through Tears) Who knows, since then.

And last, why are people even talking about relgion on this thread? All he said is someone approached him about singing ONE christian song. What's the big deal.

seasons wrote:There is not blood on the cover of Holy Diver. The cover was meant to provoke, not to introduce religion. The last thing Ronnie is, is religious or evil. Same with the guys from the Sabbs. It's provocative imagery and metal bands have always used it and it's always good at getting press. It's simply used to get a reaction and get people talking. It's interpretive. Is it the devil drowning a priest? Is it good vs. evil? or is it a priest drowning Murray. (That's the Dio mascots name) Sounds pretty religious huh?

Ozzy barely wrote anything for the first 23 years of his career (that's confirmed up through Tears) Who knows, since then.

And last, why are people even talking about relgion on this thread? All he said is someone approached him about singing ONE christian song. What's the big deal.

I agree with this part of the comment. I don't have a problem at all with the dark/eerie stuff, because I don't take it so serious as to change my religious beliefs or anything. Alot of the power metal stuff that we like is almost like watching a movie or something. They're singing about everything from slaying dragons (Rhapsody) to being abducted by aliens(Evergrey) for cryin' out loud! I don't take that stuff seriously, but I find it entertaining at the same time.

My personal bottom line is this. I don't have to necessarily have my music glorifying Christ all of the time, but I don't have a problem with music that does that (metal, country, jazz, or whatever the style it may be). With that said, I don't want my music glorifying Satan either. For me personally, that's where I cross my comfort zone. I'm not so naive as to think everyone is going to feel/believe like me though.

Last edited by PoetsandMadmen on Sat Apr 08, 2006 7:32 am, edited 2 times in total.

Rock wrote:, but nothing can be more contradictory, than fkn these metal bands singing their BS christian lyrics. I dont give a fuk, if I offend any bible bashing yankees here, coz i think u all suk ass if u take rock/metal music, and put your sukass GOD lyrics to it. To me, u are fkn hypocrits.

So these christian bands can all go shake their ass, but is all cool if u speak the word of GOD. How fkn typical and b.s is that. Whatever keeps the money rolling in, we will allow. You will all fry in HELL...with the rest of us....hahahahahahahahaha

Dont get me wrong, I believe each to their own in religion, but fuk, do u religious wankers change like the wind when money is involved, one thing I despise in life, and u will get me fired up is, religious mofo's that want the best of both worlds. E.G: I am a fkn Minister, so I can fuk woman, unlike a priest in tha catholic church who cant. Grrrrr I am fired allready, u know the religions I am talking about, who use Rock/Metal and any means to make their money, that were once against all this so called "SATANIC" music, now use it to their advantage to drag more suckers in, and make money....... I HATE these "so called" christian metal bands, not for their music as such, but for the principle of using Rock/Metal to promote their fuked up cause, when only afew years ago, it was TABOO to even listen to rock'n'roll.

WOW. This is truly a disturbing thread. I don't know really where to start.

Let me first start by saying that I am a Christian. Therfore I guess in your eyes I suck ass and am a hypocrite. Well, Iv'e been called much worst. I am noyt sure if your issue is with Chistianity or religion as a whole. Religion could mean so many things and can be a harmful and bad thing. However, Christianity as the Bible + nothing or - nothing is all good.

You talk about people that used to knock Elvis and know embrace Rock. First and foremost those people are just that..................people. Peolpe have been and will continue to be the most undecisive and easily persuaded aminal on earth. ( pardon the spelling) You can't look to people to judge Christianity beacuse people are not perfect, Jessus was the only perfect man. So please do not judge Christianity by people alone. Yes there are far too many "christians" that give Christianity a bad name. However there is nothing in the bible about rock /metal music. The Bible does say to stay away from all things evil and you must admit there is some evil in metal. Having said that, it was a man made idea to go after rock and rock figures. There are some"christians that believe that rock is from satan. There is no evidence to back this up. Again, Bible + nothing. The sad thing is that many"churches" make up there own rules based on denomination or what suits them. That's not how it works. I for one and my church do not have a problem with rock. We have a rock band at church. I for one have no problem with christian rock/metal as long as the music is good. I don't listen to Christian music for the sake of it.

The reason why some "christians" have gone to rock/metal music is to reach a broader audiance and to lead more people the Christ who may not otherwise be lead. Listen, I know there are way too many hypocrits out there and too many people milking the Christian thing for money. Everyone does it in every profession and walk of life.

Don't clump me in with the Hypocrits, don't pretend to know me or what I am about and don't suggest that I will be in hell becasue I can without a doubt assure you that I will not be.

You mentioned Stryper, I understand that Stryper did a small tour with a band called Helstar bakc in the 80's. I wondered why a christian band would tour with a band called Helstar. In hind site it was brilliant. Most kids at the show were most likely not saved. Styper want to play to an audience like that to see the lost saved. Think about it, If you were going fishing, would you go to a pond that had thousands of fish in it or a pond that no fish. IOW - tHEY would rather play to a non christian crown than a christian crowd to reach more lost people. That is what Christian Rock/ Metal is all bout. Giving that traditional metal listener an alternitive to doom and gloom metal. What is wrong with that?

Olaf wrote:You mentioned Stryper, I understand that Stryper did a small tour with a band called Helstar bakc in the 80's. I wondered why a christian band would tour with a band called Helstar. In hind site it was brilliant. Most kids at the show were most likely not saved. Styper want to play to an audience like that to see the lost saved. Think about it, If you were going fishing, would you go to a pond that had thousands of fish in it or a pond that no fish. IOW - tHEY would rather play to a non christian crown than a christian crowd to reach more lost people. That is what Christian Rock/ Metal is all bout. Giving that traditional metal listener an alternitive to doom and gloom metal. What is wrong with that?

Well, to even put it into more modern terms, P.O.D. (Payable On Death) was part of the Ozzfest tour a couple or three years ago. Rob Rock, who is very open about his faith, plays all kinds of "secular" festivals in Europe, in addition to touring with all kinds of "secular" prog/power metal bands.

It doesn't make any sense to me for a "Christian" band to only play for Christians. That's like the ol' saying, preaching to the choir! If a Christian band is truly making ministry their primary reason for playing, then they'll be willing to play in front of anyone! In addition, I don't think "Christian" bands should sugarcoat or soften up their lyrics in order to appeal to the mainstream either. In other words, I don't think "Christian" bands should quit singing about Christ in order to be played on MTV or mainstream radio. If a band strictly wants to have positive lyrics, and not necessarily sing about Christ, then fine. Just don't lean on or wave the "Christian" band banner if you're going to be simply a positive lyrical band. Again, that's just my opinion....