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Training help

Sorry for the cross post..but need help ..

ok .. let me tell you, MALE hormones... seriously you think the girls are bad. I need MAJOR intervention here. i have removed anything sweetie could POSSIBLY think of as a nest. taken the cage into a different room so that he doesnt get territorial around it. so he had a playgym and his travel box out which he plays in. but nothing is working...

over the last 2 weeks or so Sweetie has turned into a terrorist.. seriously.. at this point in time i am sporting a hand, that sweetie cannot even perch on due to the bruising and bites.. my entire hand has been "chowed" on in efforts to get him to UP.. he is at the point where he attacks anyone coming near him. and i have no idea why,
so i need to start from scratch as this cannot go on. I understand the trauma of a new bird, which he can hear but not see, and have giving him extra time and cuddling , which i can only do at this point, holding him in his fav cloth.. the entire family is sporting bleeding and bruised feet <his cage is on the floor next to my couch> and my father is loosing patience FAST. Sweetie's quest for dark spots are beginning to get a bit much, including under the couch and behind cushions...

ive cut back on high fat foods etc, and i need to start converting him to pellets soon, but cannot do that while he is like this.. soooo
HELP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

ANYTHING i can try.. basic training ideas? the biting has to be cut back. i can simply not handle the extent that he is attacking me. and i dont WANT to restrict his out time.

at this moment he is in his cage for a time out, the 4th in the last hour. screaming his head off. when i take him out, he will be all lovey for about 10/20 mins.. then go straight back to biting.. and the biting, involves latching on and not releasing.

Re: Training help

Wow! Sounds like he is really giving you a run for your money!

You mentioned changing to a pellet diet soon, and honestly if you've tried alot of other means, like making sure he gets 10 - 12 hours of covered cage time at night to qwell the hormonal beast, my next thought would be to change that diet.

Silver is a "stud" like that. He developed young and he's "all man". I constantly have to work with him to keep him "handle-able" if that makes sense. He's affectionate in his own way, but he's got his own mind and he's VERY headstrong, and very "mans-man". When I decreased his seeds though, and got him on more pellets, his attitude did lighten up. He doesn't scream near as much as he used too. He used to go through a period of about 2 hours a day where he'd screach in the morning, but now he doesn't do that any more. He's going through another hormonal cycle right now, but its not NEAR as bad as the one this spring, and he's on a higher pellet ratio.

Re: Training help

ive done the 10-12 hours sleep, in fact sweetie tends to sleep much more than that. ive taken away everything he could attach himself to, tried blackmailing with sunflower seeds. play gyms , spraying often.. but if you looked at him at this point youd think he was an avairy bird, not a handraised one.. that I handraised. the aggression seemed aimed at me more than anyone else. and could it be a mate frustration.. im his mate.. and he isnt getting what he needs from me? and if so how do i counteract that?

the stepping up ladderstyle is going ok.. but not as well as i liked. pellets arrives today, so conversion will start today. also will order sally blanchards book at the end of the month, and start training again.
also, in my mail, ive recieved mail from birdtricks.com ... about clicker training.. anyone has any experience with this? i am at wits end, his attitude is contradictory, will attack me.. and then a couple mins later will want to cuddle...
*pulls out hair* seriously.. im going mad. lol... every possible nest has been taken away, and bedtime has been DRASTICALLY brought down. if he doesnt improve then training will have to be stepped up, i am looking at a bigger cage as well, where i an add more toys perches etc, dont know if he is acting out of boredom...plus am moving into a bigger room, so i can set one end for the birds.. with playgyms.. and bigger cages.. so indi and sweetie will get new bigger cages.. and the budgies will be upgraded to indi and sweeties old cages. also with more toys for the budgies.

so sweetie will have a permanent spot instead of his cage being moved around everymorning and night. but also a spot he can play in besides the floor. then if THAT doesnt work, i guess im going to have to develop a higher pain threshhold.

could all this be because he is looking for a birdie mate? and im not filling that need?
Leandre

Re: Training help

Is he stick trained that helps a great deal with getting him out of his cage and places he needs to go without you getting bitten. I have lots of advice about stick training if he isn't. It's helped me a great deal with my queen of the cage. Dandy still has her moments though she doesn't actually bite she just snapps and holds but doesn't apply enough pressure. But she can go on a scream fest I just rearrange things in her cage alot. Those tiels sure can be crazy during the summer!

Re: Training help

I put the birds on a playgym and push the stick to them when Dandy first started she would strike out at the stick so I got a bigger perch and after a couple of times she stepped on I would then praise her and give her a treat and then use the stick to put her back on the playgym. I think they really like praise. It worked on Dandy and Neo the budgie doing it that way. But it makes it good if they get somewhere you can't reach them or if they get overly hormonal. Also if they are on the playstand and you're giving them a time out in the cage I like to use the perch so they can't try to kiss up the me by running up me to sit on my shoulder.

Re: Training help

and could it be a mate frustration.. im his mate.. and he isnt getting what he needs from me? and if so how do i counteract that?

yeah, that's what i suggested in the other thread. no full body stroking, ignore his overatures. you need to change the dynamic of the relationship from his view. you are a flock member, not a mate.

Originally Posted by Panthlee

the stepping up ladderstyle is going ok.. but not as well as i liked.

are you doing this as training or as a discipline when he acts out? i would NOT recommend it as discipline- it makes birds more aggressive not less, i feel.

Originally Posted by Panthlee

ive recieved mail from birdtricks.com ... about clicker training.. anyone has any experience with this?

that dude is a farce. there is a thread somewhere her about him. clicker training, however, is NOT a farce. get a good book on clicker training. i trained muttonchop a few tricks & it really helped with our communication & bonding. the issue is not to get too goal oriented. use it as a fun game & the rest will follow.

it really helped me think like a bird too, because i was getting frustrated with our communication up til that point. now i have a better understand how confusing we humans are!

Originally Posted by Panthlee

i am at wits end, his attitude is contradictory, will attack me.. and then a couple mins later will want to cuddle...

this is the behavior i pointed out. what is "cuddling" to you/sweetie? if it involves you touching anything but his head, stop it, pronto. find another way to bond. you are sending sex signals & then being a real tease! if this is what it is, it makes him really frustrated/angry.

Originally Posted by Panthlee

could all this be because he is looking for a birdie mate? and im not filling that need?

if your goal is retinaing/improving "pet quality" (a good relationship with sweetie), then a mate is a bad idea. it will make this issue worse.

Re: Training help

yeah, that's what i suggested in the other thread. no full body stroking, ignore his overatures. you need to change the dynamic of the relationship from his view. you are a flock member, not a mate.

no full body stroking, he doesnt allow it. overatures, he doesnt make any that i notice. he shows hearts and sings,usually to other objects. socks dish clothes.. etc..

Originally Posted by Squawk and Howl

are you doing this as training or as a discipline when he acts out? i would NOT recommend it as discipline- it makes birds more aggressive not less, i feel.

not at a discipline, seems to calm him down slightly. seems to pull his attention away from nest seeking. which he does constantly. and is going through mineral blocks alot. increased food amount. if i didnt know better i would say sweetie was preparing to lay. but.. all actions have pointed to male.

Originally Posted by Squawk and Howl

this is the behavior i pointed out. what is "cuddling" to you/sweetie? if it involves you touching anything but his head, stop it, pronto. find another way to bond. you are sending sex signals & then being a real tease! if this is what it is, it makes him really frustrated/angry.

cuddling is sweetie dropping his head to be scratched, head and neck only. thats the extent of cuddling i get from sweetie. then the scritches will be going well, and then sweetie will nip me. and move away....

i have increased sweeties night time. by about 2/3 more hours, he has been kept off my shoulder for a bit, if he nips at me while on my shoulder he gets removed to a playgym, and isnt allowed back for a bit. i dont want to punish him by putting him back in his cage.. as thats counterproductive to me, as i want him to spend a bit more time in his cage playing. and things seem to have improved. alot more loving attitude today. asking for scritches, whistling etc. so it could have improved slightly. sitting napping with my mom at this point. He is still looking for nest spots.. in everything!!!! under the table, under the couch... under my shirt.. so yeah, the attitude sems to have improved..

Re: Training help

so i increased sweetie's sleeping time. drastically. bedtime, just after 7, wake up time, after 9.
and for the last couple of days. Sweetie has been SWEET..he has been playing happily all day long, and come 7 tonight,... he was looking really sleepy and falling asleep on my leg. eating better.. everything has imporved. FANTASTIC.. thank you for everyone who offered suggestions. today he slept till 11, when i woke him. he came out of his cage making kissey noises

Re: Training help

glad to hear extra sleep helps his mood.

Originally Posted by Panthlee

cuddling is sweetie dropping his head to be scratched, head and neck only. thats the extent of cuddling i get from sweetie. then the scritches will be going well, and then sweetie will nip me. and move away....

ah, well then. my advice to is give him just less than what it takes for him to bite. start reading his body language or timing how long you can scritch before he goes psycho. then stop JUST before that point.

birds are creatures of habit & their behavior is patterned. the more he bites, the more he will do so in the future. so stop before he starts & the behavior will reduce.