Blog Exchange with TheeBears

One of the Baylor blogs does a preview every week of their opponents complete with a fan interview that consists of 5 questions exchanged and answered by each. Below are the 5 questions I posed to them, we'll both post the full texts of the interviews later this morning:

1.) Since this will be the last meeting of our two schools for the foreseeable future lets look back on the series a little bit, what one memory as a Baylor fan sticks out to you?

2.) Looking forward to this weekend is there anything specific that excites or concerns you about this years game?

3.) We know and hear a ton about RG3 and but what does the Baylor run game look like? Do you expect to be able to run the ball well against CU?

4.) Baylor has played a pretty soft schedule so far and has yet to leave the state of Texas, focusing on the defensive side of the ball what do you expect from this team as the venture out of state for the first time this season?

5.) Changing gears a little, what are your thoughts on the future of Baylor Athletics and the Big12 (Mack10) conference itself?

B.) Related to that same subject there is a lot of animosity among CU fans towards BU for the way that Ken Starr and Buddy Jones publicly trashed CU during the conference expansion talks, can you give us a Baylor Fans perspective on that?

1.) Since this will be the last meeting of our two schools for the foreseeable future lets look back on the series a little bit, what one memory as a Baylor fan sticks out to you?

Easy: When Baylor ruined your 2006 homecoming 34-31 in triple overtime. (Hawk's first year. How the hell did you not fire Hawkins right after that game? And the bigger question: how is he STILL your coach?!?)

2.) Looking forward to this weekend is there anything specific that excites or concerns you about this years game?

It is a must-win game for both teams. I think whoever loses this game will end up 11th in the Big 12 ahead of Kansas.

Rodney Stewart is averaging almost 5 yards a carry. He is 5'6" and 175 lbs. so he can be quite elusive in the backfield. If Hawkins decides to give him the ball, he could give our defense fits.
You have some speedy wide receivers, but so far it appears that you are not going deep to utilize their speed yet. I hope that trend continues, but I would expect Hawkins to show some different wrinkles from previous games.

3.) We know and hear a ton about RG3 but what does the Baylor run game look like? Do you expect to be able to run the ball well against CU?
Your defense is giving up just over 100 yards per game, so I hope our offense would try to run it first, and then pass, but I doubt that will happen. If we would have been more creative with our running game against Tech, we would have won.

Finley (4.7/rush) and Ganaway (7.3/rush) are our 2 primary backs. It looks as though Finley is still recovering from a lingering foot injury, and Ganaway is not utilized enough. The other name you might here is Salubi, and he (along with the other 2) are very good at catching passes out of the back field and gaining yards in open space.

4.) Baylor has played a pretty soft schedule so far and has yet to leave the state of Texas, focusing on the defensive side of the ball what do you expect from this team as the venture out of state for the first time this season?

Earlier this seasons, we were ranked as the 9th worse non-conference schedule by Sporting News. (http://www.sportingnews.com/ncaa-football/story/2010-07-21/best-worst-nonconference-scheduling) Honeslty, I am very disappointed with this ranking. We should be ranked as the ABSOLUTE WORST non-conference team in the nation!!
We have not been to a bowl game since 1994. I want our team to play the absolute easiest non-conference schedule possible every year. We are getting better under Coach Long Sleeves, but until we get to 3 consecutive bowl games, we should go the A&M route and schedule 4 patsies for 4 easy non-conference wins every year. (why we did not try to get the TCU game off our schedule baffles me) A bowl game is the absolute most important goal for the foreseeable future. We need to get there any way possible.

5.) Changing gears a little, what are your thoughts on the future of Baylor Athletics and the Big12 (Mack10) conference itself?

It will be relatively stable for in the near term, unless some other conference goes to 16 teams first. Although I still don't understand the math of how you add 4 teams for a 16 team league, and those additional 4 teams bring enough clout to where each and every one of those 16 teams gets $20 million per year.
Baylor better win and win quick if they want to be included in any future realignment. The fan base has been rejuvenated, but enthusiasm will definitely slide if we lose this weekend (as will yours if you lose). Our programs are in roughly the same state, yours just happens to be in a bigger TV market, and have more financial issues.

B.) Related to that same subject there is a lot of animosity among CU fans towards BU for the way that Ken Starr and Buddy Jones publicly trashed CU during the conference expansion talks, can you give us a Baylor Fans perspective on that?

As an avid college sports fan, I thought what Baylor did was spectacular. They slowed down the process to where everyone could take a step back and think about what they were doing to college sports. (again, I don't understand how adding more teams automatically gets you to $20 million per team. travel and logistical costs alone would have a huge impact on an athletic department's bottom line)

Also, can you really blame K* and Buddy Jones? What did you want them to do, lay over and play dead? Would your alumni and representatives easily given up that much money, jobs, etc. for your school and community without a fight? The state of Texas would lose $714 million dollars and 5700 jobs if Baylor were to separate with their fellow Big 12 Texas schools (http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/spt/stories/061210dnospobaylorecon.91da26d3.html). You can't even afford to fire the coach you don't want, so you definitely would have been fighting for yourselves as well.
I cannot blame the CU fans for resenting K* and company, and BU fans would feel the exact same way if someone spoke of Baylor in that manner (focusing on their negatives in such a public manner). However, I could not blame that desparate school for doing what they needed to do in order to save themselves.

Also, can you really blame K* and Buddy Jones? What did you want them to do, lay over and play dead? Would your alumni and representatives easily given up that much money, jobs, etc. for your school and community without a fight? The state of Texas would lose $714 million dollars and 5700 jobs if Baylor were to separate with their fellow Big 12 Texas schools (http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcont....91da26d3.html). You can't even afford to fire the coach you don't want, so you definitely would have been fighting for yourselves as well.
I cannot blame the CU fans for resenting K* and company, and BU fans would feel the exact same way if someone spoke of Baylor in that manner (focusing on their negatives in such a public manner). However, I could not blame that desparate school for doing what they needed to do in order to save themselves.

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It's shameful that going negative = putting up a fight.

The quoted Baylor opinion is basically saying that the ends justify the means.

Who cares if one of 22 regents at Baylor slanders another conference member and plays loosely with the truth. Badmouthing CU was justified because it slowed the speed of the conferencepalooza. Buddy Jones is a great role model for the kids and Baylor community.

The message that Buddy Jones sent is that character, sportsmanship and the truth don't matter. At Baylor, money clearly counts more than character.

The quoted Baylor opinion is basically saying that the ends justify the means.

Who cares if one of 22 regents at Baylor slanders another conference member and plays loosely with the truth. Badmouthing CU was justified because it slowed the speed of the conferencepalooza. Buddy Jones is a great role model for the kids and Baylor community.

The message that Buddy Jones sent is that character, sportsmanship and the truth don't matter. At Baylor, money clearly counts more than character.

Referencing the Dallas Morning News article is trivial and petty.

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I'm curious what was said that was "slanderous" about Colorado?

What is Colorado's concern with anything Buddy Jones or Judge Starr may have said? Didn't Colorado get what they wanted? A chance to rebuild their athletics programs?

What is Colorado's concern with anything Buddy Jones or Judge Starr may have said? Didn't Colorado get what they wanted? A chance to rebuild their athletics programs?

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Buddy Jones and Ken Starr stated that Baylor had a superior athletic history, was a superior academic institution and enjoyed superior athletic facilities. At best those are arguable, but mostly they're falsehoods.

Do you really believe that 714 million/5700 jobs figure? I'd like to see how those numbers were crunched.

It seemed sleazy that the president of a university and his pitbull lobbyist made an effort to degrade another school, rather than standing on their own reputation. It seemed even sadder after the manner in which Baylor was admitted into the Big XII in the first place.

Do you know who leaked CU's APR numbers?

Finally, I'll leave you with a columnists (from the CU perspective) on Buddy's email.

What is Colorado's concern with anything Buddy Jones or Judge Starr may have said? Didn't Colorado get what they wanted? A chance to rebuild their athletics programs?

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Outside of Waco you'll probably see a lot of disdain for their tactics, hell even the rest of the Texas schools wouldn't touch Baylor in this one. UT kept quite, A&M tried to head to the SEC; it looked desperate and pitiful, kind of like the slow fat kid screaming to be picked last and insulting other people with made up arguments.

What is Colorado's concern with anything Buddy Jones or Judge Starr may have said? Didn't Colorado get what they wanted? A chance to rebuild their athletics programs?

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In Colorado, there are 9 Regents whom are elected by Colorado voters. Their professionalism and political survival instincts keep them from bad mouthing other educational institutions and conference peers in order to build our reputation. CU prides itself on Nobel prize winners, astronaut alumni, Rhodes scholars, and ultimately advocating the role of Higher Ed around the state and across the nation. CU's Regents took the high road in the conference expansion. CU leadership and elected officials did not go after other conference members, and did not dignify the public statements of Buddy Jones and K*. The professionalism of the CU Regents was rewarded by being a top tier research institution and delivering both the academic integrity and the athletic tradition necessary to secure a PAC-10 birth with or without Big Tex and the four minions. CU's fans will be enjoying out move to the 12 Pac, happy not to look back on the poisonous Texas centric politics that turned a tradition rich Big 8 into the second coming of the SWC, where all roads lead to the I-35 axis of spend.

Baylor has 21 Regents elected by the Baptist Convention and/or themselves. Plus 4 Regents Emeriti, whatever that is. Buddy Jones is the son of a former Baylor president, and is not above strong arm tactics to get what he wants. His resume includes throwing money at some data entry temps to type the names and e-mails of the alumni directory into his own database, form a rogue alumni group, and then send out mass e-mails to the broader Baylor community to further his agenda. He was a loose cannon before claiming CU has money problems and alleging that BU has superior academic and athletic facilities and histories. He utilized his lobbying efforts to initiate legislative activities that pull Texas lawmakers into conference affairs, using an argument that discounts the perspective of TCU, Rice, SMU, Houston, UTEP and other institutions of higher ed when it comes to the concept of Texas institutions sticking together. Why does Baylor keep him around, except out of respect for his skills and tactics?

Baylor creates political power brokers like Ann Richards and Lt. Governor Ballard, and a slew of judges who are not afraid to hedge towards wasting Texas taxpayer money to further Baylor's intrests amongst the BCS elite. When somebody sees a turtle on a fence post, you might not know how it got up there, but you do know it had help. It's no real surprise that former special prosecutor Kenneth Star gravitated towards the Baylor President's office, because the ability to wield political power appears to take priority over running a scandal free athletic department and the pursuit of scientific research that advances civilization. Baylor would rather trash talk and elevate itself through false-alignments and through taking callous and untruthful shots at both CU and Nebraska. That's how the BU Bears roll.

How a Baptist based university and it's leadership can be more like Caesar and so far from the golden rule is baffling.

It's also not surprising that Baylor likes to perpetuate the stigma of CU being poor, or broke, or too cheap to buy out the coach. CU has done an admirable job being responsible with it's cash. While Texas Tech fired Leach for money problems disguised as player abuse, and while A&M is digging itself out of $15M debt due to outlandish facilities expansions, and while Baylor is busy building gymnasiums and squandering money paying the likes of Buddy Jones to waste taxpayer dollars at the statehouse, CU is staying out of debt.

Even with the disastrous underperformance of Coach Hawkins, CU's athletic department is running in the black. The Buffs don't have the budget of NU or OU or UT, but do bring in more athletic revenue than Baylor. One would think a conservative school like Baylor might appreciate that.

Apparently, one would be wrong.

The only thing better than getting away from the inhospitable snake-pit that is the Big 12 is landing in the fan friendly embrace of the 12-Pac.

As is the tradition when opening the game in Waco, all rise to pray nobody gets hurt playing tomorrow in Boulder. And thank you, dear Lord, for the opportunity to play Baylor one last time before moving to the new neighborhood.

In Colorado, there are 9 Regents whom are elected by Colorado voters. Their professionalism and political survival instincts keep them from bad mouthing other educational institutions and conference peers in order to build our reputation. CU prides itself on Nobel prize winners, astronaut alumni, Rhodes scholars, and ultimately advocating the role of Higher Ed around the state and across the nation. CU's Regents took the high road in the conference expansion. CU leadership and elected officials did not go after other conference members, and did not dignify the public statements of Buddy Jones and K*. The professionalism of the CU Regents was rewarded by being a top tier research institution and delivering both the academic integrity and the athletic tradition necessary to secure a PAC-10 birth with or without Big Tex and the four minions. CU's fans will be enjoying out move to the 12 Pac, happy not to look back on the poisonous Texas centric politics that turned a tradition rich Big 8 into the second coming of the SWC, where all roads lead to the I-35 axis of spend.

Baylor has 21 Regents elected by the Baptist Convention and/or themselves. Plus 4 Regents Emeriti, whatever that is. Buddy Jones is the son of a former Baylor president, and is not above strong arm tactics to get what he wants. His resume includes throwing money at some data entry temps to type the names and e-mails of the alumni directory into his own database, form a rogue alumni group, and then send out mass e-mails to the broader Baylor community to further his agenda. He was a loose cannon before claiming CU has money problems and alleging that BU has superior academic and athletic facilities and histories. He utilized his lobbying efforts to initiate legislative activities that pull Texas lawmakers into conference affairs, using an argument that discounts the perspective of TCU, Rice, SMU, Houston, UTEP and other institutions of higher ed when it comes to the concept of Texas institutions sticking together. Why does Baylor keep him around, except out of respect for his skills and tactics?

Baylor creates political power brokers like Ann Richards and Lt. Governor Ballard, and a slew of judges who are not afraid to hedge towards wasting Texas taxpayer money to further Baylor's intrests amongst the BCS elite. When somebody sees a turtle on a fence post, you might not know how it got up there, but you do know it had help. It's no real surprise that former special prosecutor Kenneth Star gravitated towards the Baylor President's office, because the ability to wield political power appears to take priority over running a scandal free athletic department and the pursuit of scientific research that advances civilization. Baylor would rather trash talk and elevate itself through false-alignments and through taking callous and untruthful shots at both CU and Nebraska. That's how the BU Bears roll.

How a Baptist based university and it's leadership can be more like Caesar and so far from the golden rule is baffling.

It's also not surprising that Baylor likes to perpetuate the stigma of CU being poor, or broke, or too cheap to buy out the coach. CU has done an admirable job being responsible with it's cash. While Texas Tech fired Leach for money problems disguised as player abuse, and while A&M is digging itself out of $15M debt due to outlandish facilities expansions, and while Baylor is busy building gymnasiums and squandering money paying the likes of Buddy Jones to waste taxpayer dollars at the statehouse, CU is staying out of debt.

Even with the disastrous underperformance of Coach Hawkins, CU's athletic department is running in the black. The Buffs don't have the budget of NU or OU or UT, but do bring in more athletic revenue than Baylor. One would think a conservative school like Baylor might appreciate that.

Apparently, one would be wrong.

The only thing better than getting away from the inhospitable snake-pit that is the Big 12 is landing in the fan friendly embrace of the 12-Pac.

As is the tradition when opening the game in Waco, all rise to pray nobody gets hurt playing tomorrow in Boulder. And thank you, dear Lord, for the opportunity to play Baylor one last time before moving to the new neighborhood.

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YMSSR. Remind me because this deserves rep more than any post I've ever given rep to before.

Would I blame them for pulling out all stops behind the scenes? Not at all. There was too much at stake. But you guys went public and tried to fight it out in the media. That is why I will always hate you. Burn in hell.

In Colorado, there are 9 Regents whom are elected by Colorado voters. Their professionalism and political survival instincts keep them from bad mouthing other educational institutions and conference peers in order to build our reputation. CU prides itself on Nobel prize winners, astronaut alumni, Rhodes scholars, and ultimately advocating the role of Higher Ed around the state and across the nation. CU's Regents took the high road in the conference expansion. CU leadership and elected officials did not go after other conference members, and did not dignify the public statements of Buddy Jones and K*. The professionalism of the CU Regents was rewarded by being a top tier research institution and delivering both the academic integrity and the athletic tradition necessary to secure a PAC-10 birth with or without Big Tex and the four minions. CU's fans will be enjoying out move to the 12 Pac, happy not to look back on the poisonous Texas centric politics that turned a tradition rich Big 8 into the second coming of the SWC, where all roads lead to the I-35 axis of spend.

Baylor has 21 Regents elected by the Baptist Convention and/or themselves. Plus 4 Regents Emeriti, whatever that is. Buddy Jones is the son of a former Baylor president, and is not above strong arm tactics to get what he wants. His resume includes throwing money at some data entry temps to type the names and e-mails of the alumni directory into his own database, form a rogue alumni group, and then send out mass e-mails to the broader Baylor community to further his agenda. He was a loose cannon before claiming CU has money problems and alleging that BU has superior academic and athletic facilities and histories. He utilized his lobbying efforts to initiate legislative activities that pull Texas lawmakers into conference affairs, using an argument that discounts the perspective of TCU, Rice, SMU, Houston, UTEP and other institutions of higher ed when it comes to the concept of Texas institutions sticking together. Why does Baylor keep him around, except out of respect for his skills and tactics?

Baylor creates political power brokers like Ann Richards and Lt. Governor Ballard, and a slew of judges who are not afraid to hedge towards wasting Texas taxpayer money to further Baylor's intrests amongst the BCS elite. When somebody sees a turtle on a fence post, you might not know how it got up there, but you do know it had help. It's no real surprise that former special prosecutor Kenneth Star gravitated towards the Baylor President's office, because the ability to wield political power appears to take priority over running a scandal free athletic department and the pursuit of scientific research that advances civilization. Baylor would rather trash talk and elevate itself through false-alignments and through taking callous and untruthful shots at both CU and Nebraska. That's how the BU Bears roll.

How a Baptist based university and it's leadership can be more like Caesar and so far from the golden rule is baffling.

It's also not surprising that Baylor likes to perpetuate the stigma of CU being poor, or broke, or too cheap to buy out the coach. CU has done an admirable job being responsible with it's cash. While Texas Tech fired Leach for money problems disguised as player abuse, and while A&M is digging itself out of $15M debt due to outlandish facilities expansions, and while Baylor is busy building gymnasiums and squandering money paying the likes of Buddy Jones to waste taxpayer dollars at the statehouse, CU is staying out of debt.

Even with the disastrous underperformance of Coach Hawkins, CU's athletic department is running in the black. The Buffs don't have the budget of NU or OU or UT, but do bring in more athletic revenue than Baylor. One would think a conservative school like Baylor might appreciate that.

Apparently, one would be wrong.

The only thing better than getting away from the inhospitable snake-pit that is the Big 12 is landing in the fan friendly embrace of the 12-Pac.

As is the tradition when opening the game in Waco, all rise to pray nobody gets hurt playing tomorrow in Boulder. And thank you, dear Lord, for the opportunity to play Baylor one last time before moving to the new neighborhood.

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It's always been entertaining for us Baylor faithful and those in Texas to hear the perpetuated lies of how Ann Richards, etc got Baylor into the Big 12. Yet no facts are ever communicated.

You do realize that the last decade of the SWC Baylor had the second best record of any SWC team, don't you? They also won two conference championships and played in numerous bowls, back when making a bowl actually meant something. Unfortunately frmo 1996 to 2007, a former religious professor (promoted to university President - say what?!?) and a music salesman (college roomie of said religious professor given the Athletics Director job), buried the football program.

I don't know much of Colorado's football history other than they won a share of a national title in 1990 after the 5th down debacle and typically have had a pretty decent program, but no one could argue that Colorado has been more successful than Baylor even in the Big 12. Football is basically the only thing we suck at and Art Briles is slowly turning that ship around.

Academically, there are plenty of rankings, etc that speak for themselves and people can come to their own conclusions.

Financially, is it hard to understand when the country is bombarded with news that the PAC-10 wants to back out of their knee jerk to try to block Baylor from the PAC-10 and Colorado can't find a couple of million to leave on time that people question what type of operation they're running up there?

Colorado also supports the bare minimum number of sports teams. Have you ever been to Baylor campus? Some of the finest facilities in the country - I've never seen CU's facilities so at a minimum, we'll call that a push.

Fact remains, what is going on in the NCAA is ruining college athletics. Also, had the PAC-10 just taken the Big 12 south, they'd have gotten all they were really after, which was Texas.

Baylor has significant ties in Texas and is the oldest university in the state. It has created one of the finest health care training and facilities in the entire state of Texas. It's mark is all over the state of Texas and her contributions are many. To leave her behind for the likes of some of the other schools was frankly laughable when it all comes down to a decade of bad football.

If that was the case, Colorado wouldn't be considered in any scenario either.

It's always been entertaining for us Baylor faithful and those in Texas to hear the perpetuated lies of how Ann Richards, etc got Baylor into the Big 12. Yet no facts are ever communicated.

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So it's not true? Or the facts just weren't communicated? Why do you think Rice and TCU etc...hold on so tightly to those non-facts?

You do realize that the last decade of the SWC Baylor had the second best record of any SWC team, don't you?

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And Waco's standard of living is higher than Lubbock's. We know, we know...

They also won two conference championships and played in numerous bowls, back when making a bowl actually meant something. Unfortunately frmo 1996 to 2007, a former religious professor (promoted to university President - say what?!?) and a music salesman (college roomie of said religious professor given the Athletics Director job), buried the football program.

I don't know much of Colorado's football historyother than they won a share of a national title in 1990 after the 5th down debacle and typically have had a pretty decent program, but no one could argue that Colorado has been more successful than Baylor even in the Big 12. Football is basically the only thing we suck at and Art Briles is slowly turning that ship around.

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Regarding the underlined part: Maybe you should look it up before drawing you're conclusions. It happens to be a large part of our discussions.

Regarding the bolded part: That can be taken two ways. Please, tell me that you're suggesting that Baylor, not Colorado has been more successful in Big XII play. For the record, it encompasses the worst time in our football history--and it's still superior to Baylor's. What do you mean in that bolded selection, exactly?

For what it's worth, Colorado is ranked 42 schools ahead of Baylor in all-time wins. Baylor has won fewer less than fifty percent of its games in its history.

Of course, Colorado has played 37 more games than Texas' oldest universty, so maybe those rankings aren't fair. But of course, we could spot Baylor those 37 games--assume that The Bears would win them all--and it still wouldn't make much of a dent.

Academically, there are plenty of rankings, etc that speak for themselves and people can come to their own conclusions.

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Academic rankings are academic rankings. Take them or leave them, but they overwhelmingly favor CU (although I think Baylor snuck in a place ahead in a recent U.S. News report). I'm sure those listings will be linked before this thread is over.

Yet somehow Buddy Jones stated Baylor's academic superiority as a fact. So you'll have to talk to him, rather than preach at us on this one.

Financially, is it hard to understand when the country is bombarded with news that the PAC-10 wants to back out of their knee jerk to try to block Baylor from the PAC-10 and Colorado can't find a couple of million to leave on time that people question what type of operation they're running up there?

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What are you talking about? The Pac 10 never backed down and offered Baylor membership. When was the country bombarded with this news? Was Baylor ever offered membership in the Pac? ,

And CU is actually transferring earlier than originally arranged. You're statement about not leaving on time is completely wrong.

Colorado also supports the bare minimum number of sports teams. Have you ever been to Baylor campus? Some of the finest facilities in the country - I've never seen CU's facilities so at a minimum, we'll call that a push.

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The number of sports that CU fields is a thorn in our side--we hope to improve on that in the Pac 10. Again, you're making conclusions on things you admit to not knowing about. Your credibility is top notch with me.

I confess that Baylor's football stadium's seats are among the finest I've seen. They look both sturdy and comfortable. Do you want to know how I know your stadium's seats look like?

Fact remains, what is going on in the NCAA is ruining college athletics. Also, had the PAC-10 just taken the Big 12 south, they'd have gotten all they were really after, which was Texas.

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The Pac really did want UT Austin. But is there any evidence that Texas would have gone if Baylor was included in the package? I saw nothing which indicated that Texas wanted Baylor to tag along. Nothing.

In fact, according to a leak from the Pac 10, the collapse in negotiations had nothing to do with the inclusion/exclusion of Baylor in the package. Instead, it seemed that Texas wanted to change revenue distribution at the 11th hour, even though the terms had been agreed upon months in advance. According to the Pac leak, they refused Texas' new terms, and left the deal feeling that Texas had been lest than forthright in their negotiations.

Do you really, really believe that Baylor, or the other teams in the Big XII South had anything to do with Texas's decision? Really?

Baylor has significant ties in Texas and is the oldest university in the state. It has created one of the finest health care training and facilities in the entire state of Texas. It's mark is all over the state of Texas and her contributions are many. To leave her behind for the likes of some of the other schools was frankly laughable when it all comes down to a decade of bad football.

If that was the case, Colorado wouldn't be considered in any scenario either.

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Exactly! That should tell you--despite your ridiculous claims regarding Baylor--how much more Colorado brings to the table. It's about football, and so much more.

I never understand how anyone could argue that a private religious school is financially better off than a state sponsored school that has the defacto pledge of the full faith and credit of the state government. CU's research budget is simply massive.

The tit for tat arguments exhibited in this thread merely underscore why CU belongs in the Pac 12. Three Bears seems happy to be in the big xii. Good, we're all happy then. The schools will likely never meet on the football field again considering a OCC matchup is a 0% possibility and Baylor hasn't been to a bowl game in, what did three bears say...16 years?

This article outs Lt. Governor Bob Bullock as Baylor's law-maker booster. It suggest Ann Richards "was aware", but not "shouting or anything". If anything, this article only underscores a rich history of backroom statehouse deals that is a hallmark of Baylor's identity.

You do realize that the last decade of the SWC Baylor had the second best record of any SWC team, don't you?

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Second best in a conference that was dead man walking. Wow! Congrats. When considering all the sanctions that tied the other SWC teams arms behind their collective backs, Baylor's bride's maid finish is a marvelous crowning accomplishment.

They also won two conference championships and played in numerous bowls, back when making a bowl actually meant something.

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Did Baylor ever beat Oklahoma and Nebraska in the same season? Two conference championships is all you got? Has Baylor ever won the B12? Has Baylor ever been ranked #1 in the country during your lifetime?

Unfortunately frmo 1996 to 2007, a former religious professor (promoted to university President - say what?!?) and a music salesman (college roomie of said religious professor given the Athletics Director job), buried the football program.

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One of CU's notorious presidents was quoted in her deposition defending the word "c u n t" during an investigation following the recruiting scandal. She said in Chauser's era, it was used as "a term of endearment." It was inexcusable and she was let go. Colorado fans know bull **** from their leadership when they hear it.

I don't know much of Colorado's football history other than they won a share of a national title in 1990 after the 5th down debacle and typically have had a pretty decent program, but no one could argue that Colorado has been more successful than Baylor even in the Big 12.

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Baylor and CU have been in the same conference for over a decade. There has been ample time for you to get up to speed on CU's history. My conclusion is that you don't care enough about other members of the B12 to make the conference a successful enterprise. The fact that you and Baylor leadership are not above badmouthing a conference peer shows that leadership really does start at the top and goes downhill from there. Let's face it, the B12 isn't the nicest of neighborhoods. The neighbors are self-absorbed and don't have each other's backs.

Academically, there are plenty of rankings, etc that speak for themselves and people can come to their own conclusions.

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Since you called me out for not providing proof of Ann Richards' role in getting Baylor into the B12, I'm calling you out to provide the lists that rank Baylor higher academically than CU. What are you referring to?

Have you ever been to Baylor campus? Some of the finest facilities in the country - I've never seen CU's facilities so at a minimum, we'll call that a push.

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I have been to Waco three times. I have spent time exploring the Baylor campus. The old part is majestic. I love the tributes paid the Baylor's fallen veterans. The Bear habitat is very well done. The new buildings on the north side are impressive, but don't architecuturally blend in well. I do like being on Baylor's campus better than A&M or UT. But I think thr Rice and SMU campus have much of the same charm as Baylor, but with infinitely better entertainment and lodging amenities in the surrounding neighborhoods. Baylor's biggest downfall is the surrounding Waco community. KU also has a prettier campus than Baylor in my opinion. CU's campus is off the charts. Check it out and see for your self.

Fact remains, what is going on in the NCAA is ruining college athletics. Also, had the PAC-10 just taken the Big 12 south, they'd have gotten all they were really after, which was Texas.

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There you go with that Texas-centric view of the universe. It boggles the Baylor mind that the Pac-10 would actually want Colorado enough to offer an invite CU on the school's own merit.

Face it. The B12 south couldn't care less about the B12 north schools. The B12 is obsessed with television contracts. The Texas schools are too petty and self-important to establish any meaningful alliance with partner schools in Missouri, Iowa, Nebraska, Kansas and Colorado. What Colorado brought to the table as a member conference school just wasn't meaningful in the central timezone. The Pac 10 feels differently. Baylor, on the other hand, was not attractive to the Pac-10 on it's own merits, and only was mentioned as part of a Baylor engineered political bundle. If Baylor were so special, it could stand on it's own in conference talks, and not be the last kid picked on the playground.

Baylor has significant ties in Texas and is the oldest university in the state. It has created one of the finest health care training and facilities in the entire state of Texas. It's mark is all over the state of Texas and her contributions are many. To leave her behind for the likes of some of the other schools was frankly laughable when it all comes down to a decade of bad football.

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Similarly, CU has been around since 1889, has significant ties to Colorado and has established one of the finest healthcare facilities in the Rocky Mountain west.

Baylor leadership and fans have yet to present any facts that point to Baylor as a superior institution over CU. Keep justifying K* and Buddy Jones and keep using that bog-standard Texas hubris. It's what you do, It's who you are. It's at core of Baylor's very identity.

If that was the case, Colorado wouldn't be considered in any scenario either.

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You've just made the point that Buddy Jones and K* did not. Colorado is more than the sum of it's football record.

The key point remains that Baylor fans cling to their leadership's misguided statements by defending them. Baylor fans would get more respect if they call out their leadership for going negative instead of bumbling around trying to justify them at the expense of Colorado.

Could you imagine Buddy Jones or Kenneth Starr trying to keep the conference together by sweetening the pot for Colorado instead of dropping a turd in the B12 punchbowl?