One player who is being forgotten about is Kami Winger from Midway-Fordville-Lankin from the early 90's. Finished with over 1,800 points and is the state all time leader in rebounds with just short of 1,600. she has over 200 more rebounds then Fieckert who is second. Went on to be a 4 year starter at UND as their Power Forward and scored over 1,000 points in her career which included 3 national titles.

rock83 wrote:I agree she is a very good player watched her play a bunch. But we get a little carried away sometimes about some kids these days. We forget how truely good and how many great kids north dakota has had. Top 10 player in the HISTORY of class b girls basketball are you sure you want to go that far. Is it without question she has been the best player in the state by far the last two years. If you cant say that its a little hard to say she is top ten ever!

The Schwab wrote:Well after watching Benz play for a 5th time this year last night, She is definatly in this discussion, I would put her top 10.

Yes I would, no questions asked, she won a region championship this year by putting the entire county of Kidder on her back. Last night when the game was on the line and everyone in the gym was going crazy their was one poised face in that gym, it belonged to her, one of the better coaches in the history of ND girls bball probably spent the entire season thinking of a way he could contain her, and it simply wasn't possible. She is close to 6 foot, handles the ball like a PG and can shoot with either hand. I have no doubts when I say she is one of the best every in ND. I'm sure I will be disagreed with telling me how great these players from the 80's were, Eli Benz is better than almost every single one of them, no questions asked.

^^^^I have a new nominee for Common Man's Preposterous Statement tournament for next year!

First, the level of play is WAY down in comparison to what it was in the past. Are there still some great players absolutely, but the depth of teams and the overall fundamental skill level is not even close. I have seen Benz play at least 5 times and she is not even close to that level of play. You are saying she is better then Kleinsasser who was at one time the NCCs all time leading scorer. Or Nadine Schmidt or Lynett Mund who were two of the best players in D2 history! She is a talented player, deserves all the recognition she has gotten and will get, but she is no where close to those players.

Ok so then she's four, so she is better then almost every single one of them.

rock83 wrote:I agree she is a very good player watched her play a bunch. But we get a little carried away sometimes about some kids these days. We forget how truely good and how many great kids north dakota has had. Top 10 player in the HISTORY of class b girls basketball are you sure you want to go that far. Is it without question she has been the best player in the state by far the last two years. If you cant say that its a little hard to say she is top ten ever!

The Schwab wrote:Well after watching Benz play for a 5th time this year last night, She is definatly in this discussion, I would put her top 10.

Yes I would, no questions asked, she won a region championship this year by putting the entire county of Kidder on her back. Last night when the game was on the line and everyone in the gym was going crazy their was one poised face in that gym, it belonged to her, one of the better coaches in the history of ND girls bball probably spent the entire season thinking of a way he could contain her, and it simply wasn't possible. She is close to 6 foot, handles the ball like a PG and can shoot with either hand. I have no doubts when I say she is one of the best every in ND. I'm sure I will be disagreed with telling me how great these players from the 80's were, Eli Benz is better than almost every single one of them, no questions asked.

^^^^I have a new nominee for Common Man's Preposterous Statement tournament for next year!

First, the level of play is WAY down in comparison to what it was in the past. Are there still some great players absolutely, but the depth of teams and the overall fundamental skill level is not even close. I have seen Benz play at least 5 times and she is not even close to that level of play. You are saying she is better then Kleinsasser who was at one time the NCCs all time leading scorer. Or Nadine Schmidt or Lynett Mund who were two of the best players in D2 history! She is a talented player, deserves all the recognition she has gotten and will get, but she is no where close to those players.

I always thought the media decided to even have an ND Miss Basketball Award because of Pat Smykowski. She was that good!

rock83 wrote:I agree she is a very good player watched her play a bunch. But we get a little carried away sometimes about some kids these days. We forget how truely good and how many great kids north dakota has had. Top 10 player in the HISTORY of class b girls basketball are you sure you want to go that far. Is it without question she has been the best player in the state by far the last two years. If you cant say that its a little hard to say she is top ten ever!

The Schwab wrote:Well after watching Benz play for a 5th time this year last night, She is definatly in this discussion, I would put her top 10.

Yes I would, no questions asked, she won a region championship this year by putting the entire county of Kidder on her back. Last night when the game was on the line and everyone in the gym was going crazy their was one poised face in that gym, it belonged to her, one of the better coaches in the history of ND girls bball probably spent the entire season thinking of a way he could contain her, and it simply wasn't possible. She is close to 6 foot, handles the ball like a PG and can shoot with either hand. I have no doubts when I say she is one of the best every in ND. I'm sure I will be disagreed with telling me how great these players from the 80's were, Eli Benz is better than almost every single one of them, no questions asked.

^^^^I have a new nominee for Common Man's Preposterous Statement tournament for next year!

First, the level of play is WAY down in comparison to what it was in the past. Are there still some great players absolutely, but the depth of teams and the overall fundamental skill level is not even close. I have seen Benz play at least 5 times and she is not even close to that level of play. You are saying she is better then Kleinsasser who was at one time the NCCs all time leading scorer. Or Nadine Schmidt or Lynett Mund who were two of the best players in D2 history! She is a talented player, deserves all the recognition she has gotten and will get, but she is no where close to those players.

Ok so then she's four, so she is better then almost every single one of them.

No those were just 3 off the top of my head. I even listed a 4th player in the post to follow that would have DOMINATED her. Sorry to say you are WAY off on your judgment of her ability and I feel I can state such considering everyone else on this board agrees with me. Maybe a top 20 player, maybe. I dont have time right now to sit down and list everyone but I will add Katie Richards, Rachel Otto, and Tanya Fisher. So i am already at at least 7.

rock83 wrote:I agree she is a very good player watched her play a bunch. But we get a little carried away sometimes about some kids these days. We forget how truely good and how many great kids north dakota has had. Top 10 player in the HISTORY of class b girls basketball are you sure you want to go that far. Is it without question she has been the best player in the state by far the last two years. If you cant say that its a little hard to say she is top ten ever!

The Schwab wrote:Well after watching Benz play for a 5th time this year last night, She is definatly in this discussion, I would put her top 10.

Yes I would, no questions asked, she won a region championship this year by putting the entire county of Kidder on her back. Last night when the game was on the line and everyone in the gym was going crazy their was one poised face in that gym, it belonged to her, one of the better coaches in the history of ND girls bball probably spent the entire season thinking of a way he could contain her, and it simply wasn't possible. She is close to 6 foot, handles the ball like a PG and can shoot with either hand. I have no doubts when I say she is one of the best every in ND. I'm sure I will be disagreed with telling me how great these players from the 80's were, Eli Benz is better than almost every single one of them, no questions asked.

^^^^I have a new nominee for Common Man's Preposterous Statement tournament for next year!

First, the level of play is WAY down in comparison to what it was in the past. Are there still some great players absolutely, but the depth of teams and the overall fundamental skill level is not even close. I have seen Benz play at least 5 times and she is not even close to that level of play. You are saying she is better then Kleinsasser who was at one time the NCCs all time leading scorer. Or Nadine Schmidt or Lynett Mund who were two of the best players in D2 history! She is a talented player, deserves all the recognition she has gotten and will get, but she is no where close to those players.

Ok so then she's four, so she is better then almost every single one of them.

No those were just 3 off the top of my head. I even listed a 4th player in the post to follow that would have DOMINATED her. Sorry to say you are WAY off on your judgment of her ability and I feel I can state such considering everyone else on this board agrees with me. Maybe a top 20 player, maybe. I dont have time right now to sit down and list everyone but I will add Katie Richards, Rachel Otto, and Tanya Fisher. So i am already at at least 7.

I dont think this is anything to get upset about, and I CAN TYPE LIKE THIS TOO. I dont say that you can say anyone would have DOMINATED a 6 foot post player who handles the ball like a point guard and is one of the best passers I've seen. I feel I am just as qualified to judge players as you are. Congrats for getting the board to agree with you, I guess that means that your right?

rock83 wrote:I agree she is a very good player watched her play a bunch. But we get a little carried away sometimes about some kids these days. We forget how truely good and how many great kids north dakota has had. Top 10 player in the HISTORY of class b girls basketball are you sure you want to go that far. Is it without question she has been the best player in the state by far the last two years. If you cant say that its a little hard to say she is top ten ever!

The Schwab wrote:Well after watching Benz play for a 5th time this year last night, She is definatly in this discussion, I would put her top 10.

Yes I would, no questions asked, she won a region championship this year by putting the entire county of Kidder on her back. Last night when the game was on the line and everyone in the gym was going crazy their was one poised face in that gym, it belonged to her, one of the better coaches in the history of ND girls bball probably spent the entire season thinking of a way he could contain her, and it simply wasn't possible. She is close to 6 foot, handles the ball like a PG and can shoot with either hand. I have no doubts when I say she is one of the best every in ND. I'm sure I will be disagreed with telling me how great these players from the 80's were, Eli Benz is better than almost every single one of them, no questions asked.

^^^^I have a new nominee for Common Man's Preposterous Statement tournament for next year!

First, the level of play is WAY down in comparison to what it was in the past. Are there still some great players absolutely, but the depth of teams and the overall fundamental skill level is not even close. I have seen Benz play at least 5 times and she is not even close to that level of play. You are saying she is better then Kleinsasser who was at one time the NCCs all time leading scorer. Or Nadine Schmidt or Lynett Mund who were two of the best players in D2 history! She is a talented player, deserves all the recognition she has gotten and will get, but she is no where close to those players.

Ok so then she's four, so she is better then almost every single one of them.

No those were just 3 off the top of my head. I even listed a 4th player in the post to follow that would have DOMINATED her. Sorry to say you are WAY off on your judgment of her ability and I feel I can state such considering everyone else on this board agrees with me. Maybe a top 20 player, maybe. I dont have time right now to sit down and list everyone but I will add Katie Richards, Rachel Otto, and Tanya Fisher. So i am already at at least 7.

I dont think this is anything to get upset about, and I CAN TYPE LIKE THIS TOO. I dont say that you can say anyone would have DOMINATED a 6 foot post player who handles the ball like a point guard and is one of the best passers I've seen. I feel I am just as qualified to judge players as you are. Congrats for getting the board to agree with you, I guess that means that your right?

Not upset, just emphasizing how strongly I disagree with you. Considering I was one of the last ones to disagree with you I would say I agree with the board and not them with me. And I would guess you have not seen Winger play either in HS or at UND and would guess you are not old enough to have seen or remember seeing any of the players play from around 1999 and earlier since you made comment about having not seen many players from before. Winger was 6'2 and had a deadly combination of being agile and strong. Which could be easy to say for a lot of players but she received national D2 recognition for strength and conditioning. Despite her scoring over 1700 points in HS she made her name at the HS and college level with her defensive play but still managed to score over 1,200 points at UND. To further show her athleticism I believe she had well over 1,500 kills in Volleyball also. That is why I said she would dominate her because quite frankly she would. Benz just surpassed 1,000 points in late January so she will only finish with around 1,200 points. There over 100 players that can say that. She is just not in that same level as the players mentioned. If she was scoring 22 a game with 15 boards and 4-5 assists then lets talk because that is what it takes over a 2-3 year period. I think her not being All-state last year proves that point. Great player, deserves recognition, but not All-Time recognition.

rock83 wrote:I agree she is a very good player watched her play a bunch. But we get a little carried away sometimes about some kids these days. We forget how truely good and how many great kids north dakota has had. Top 10 player in the HISTORY of class b girls basketball are you sure you want to go that far. Is it without question she has been the best player in the state by far the last two years. If you cant say that its a little hard to say she is top ten ever!

The Schwab wrote:Well after watching Benz play for a 5th time this year last night, She is definatly in this discussion, I would put her top 10.

Yes I would, no questions asked, she won a region championship this year by putting the entire county of Kidder on her back. Last night when the game was on the line and everyone in the gym was going crazy their was one poised face in that gym, it belonged to her, one of the better coaches in the history of ND girls bball probably spent the entire season thinking of a way he could contain her, and it simply wasn't possible. She is close to 6 foot, handles the ball like a PG and can shoot with either hand. I have no doubts when I say she is one of the best every in ND. I'm sure I will be disagreed with telling me how great these players from the 80's were, Eli Benz is better than almost every single one of them, no questions asked.

^^^^I have a new nominee for Common Man's Preposterous Statement tournament for next year!

First, the level of play is WAY down in comparison to what it was in the past. Are there still some great players absolutely, but the depth of teams and the overall fundamental skill level is not even close. I have seen Benz play at least 5 times and she is not even close to that level of play. You are saying she is better then Kleinsasser who was at one time the NCCs all time leading scorer. Or Nadine Schmidt or Lynett Mund who were two of the best players in D2 history! She is a talented player, deserves all the recognition she has gotten and will get, but she is no where close to those players.

Ok so then she's four, so she is better then almost every single one of them.

No those were just 3 off the top of my head. I even listed a 4th player in the post to follow that would have DOMINATED her. Sorry to say you are WAY off on your judgment of her ability and I feel I can state such considering everyone else on this board agrees with me. Maybe a top 20 player, maybe. I dont have time right now to sit down and list everyone but I will add Katie Richards, Rachel Otto, and Tanya Fisher. So i am already at at least 7.

I dont think this is anything to get upset about, and I CAN TYPE LIKE THIS TOO. I dont say that you can say anyone would have DOMINATED a 6 foot post player who handles the ball like a point guard and is one of the best passers I've seen. I feel I am just as qualified to judge players as you are. Congrats for getting the board to agree with you, I guess that means that your right?

Not upset, just emphasizing how strongly I disagree with you. Considering I was one of the last ones to disagree with you I would say I agree with the board and not them with me. And I would guess you have not seen Winger play either in HS or at UND and would guess you are not old enough to have seen or remember seeing any of the players play from around 1999 and earlier since you made comment about having not seen many players from before. Winger was 6'2 and had a deadly combination of being agile and strong. Which could be easy to say for a lot of players but she received national D2 recognition for strength and conditioning. Despite her scoring over 1700 points in HS she made her name at the HS and college level with her defensive play but still managed to score over 1,200 points at UND. To further show her athleticism I believe she had well over 1,500 kills in Volleyball also. That is why I said she would dominate her because quite frankly she would. Benz just surpassed 1,000 points in late January so she will only finish with around 1,200 points. There over 100 players that can say that. She is just not in that same level as the players mentioned. If she was scoring 22 a game with 15 boards and 4-5 assists then lets talk because that is what it takes over a 2-3 year period. I think her not being All-state last year proves that point. Great player, deserves recognition, but not All-Time recognition.

If we are making this a career award then she's probably not on the list, I would say if we are going on a talent level she's on the list. I feel that if she wanted to she could score 30 points a game, and I dont think that's a stretch, she makes great passes, her teammates just arent finishing all of the layups. She is also a great vball player from what I hear as well (never saw her play vball). I am usually one of the most outspoken people on this board, I feel very strongly about my opinions, just as you do. I dont feel we will change our opinions, agree to disagree?

rock83 wrote:I agree she is a very good player watched her play a bunch. But we get a little carried away sometimes about some kids these days. We forget how truely good and how many great kids north dakota has had. Top 10 player in the HISTORY of class b girls basketball are you sure you want to go that far. Is it without question she has been the best player in the state by far the last two years. If you cant say that its a little hard to say she is top ten ever!

The Schwab wrote:Well after watching Benz play for a 5th time this year last night, She is definatly in this discussion, I would put her top 10.

Yes I would, no questions asked, she won a region championship this year by putting the entire county of Kidder on her back. Last night when the game was on the line and everyone in the gym was going crazy their was one poised face in that gym, it belonged to her, one of the better coaches in the history of ND girls bball probably spent the entire season thinking of a way he could contain her, and it simply wasn't possible. She is close to 6 foot, handles the ball like a PG and can shoot with either hand. I have no doubts when I say she is one of the best every in ND. I'm sure I will be disagreed with telling me how great these players from the 80's were, Eli Benz is better than almost every single one of them, no questions asked.

^^^^I have a new nominee for Common Man's Preposterous Statement tournament for next year!

First, the level of play is WAY down in comparison to what it was in the past. Are there still some great players absolutely, but the depth of teams and the overall fundamental skill level is not even close. I have seen Benz play at least 5 times and she is not even close to that level of play. You are saying she is better then Kleinsasser who was at one time the NCCs all time leading scorer. Or Nadine Schmidt or Lynett Mund who were two of the best players in D2 history! She is a talented player, deserves all the recognition she has gotten and will get, but she is no where close to those players.

Ok so then she's four, so she is better then almost every single one of them.

No those were just 3 off the top of my head. I even listed a 4th player in the post to follow that would have DOMINATED her. Sorry to say you are WAY off on your judgment of her ability and I feel I can state such considering everyone else on this board agrees with me. Maybe a top 20 player, maybe. I dont have time right now to sit down and list everyone but I will add Katie Richards, Rachel Otto, and Tanya Fisher. So i am already at at least 7.

I dont think this is anything to get upset about, and I CAN TYPE LIKE THIS TOO. I dont say that you can say anyone would have DOMINATED a 6 foot post player who handles the ball like a point guard and is one of the best passers I've seen. I feel I am just as qualified to judge players as you are. Congrats for getting the board to agree with you, I guess that means that your right?

Not upset, just emphasizing how strongly I disagree with you. Considering I was one of the last ones to disagree with you I would say I agree with the board and not them with me. And I would guess you have not seen Winger play either in HS or at UND and would guess you are not old enough to have seen or remember seeing any of the players play from around 1999 and earlier since you made comment about having not seen many players from before. Winger was 6'2 and had a deadly combination of being agile and strong. Which could be easy to say for a lot of players but she received national D2 recognition for strength and conditioning. Despite her scoring over 1700 points in HS she made her name at the HS and college level with her defensive play but still managed to score over 1,200 points at UND. To further show her athleticism I believe she had well over 1,500 kills in Volleyball also. That is why I said she would dominate her because quite frankly she would. Benz just surpassed 1,000 points in late January so she will only finish with around 1,200 points. There over 100 players that can say that. She is just not in that same level as the players mentioned. If she was scoring 22 a game with 15 boards and 4-5 assists then lets talk because that is what it takes over a 2-3 year period. I think her not being All-state last year proves that point. Great player, deserves recognition, but not All-Time recognition.

If we are making this a career award then she's probably not on the list, I would say if we are going on a talent level she's on the list. I feel that if she wanted to she could score 30 points a game, and I dont think that's a stretch, she makes great passes, her teammates just arent finishing all of the layups. She is also a great vball player from what I hear as well (never saw her play vball). I am usually one of the most outspoken people on this board, I feel very strongly about my opinions, just as you do. I dont feel we will change our opinions, agree to disagree?

But that's the thing. We are talking about the best class B girls player EVER. (Emphasis on ever) That is a career topic. Not one season. Name someone in any sport at any level that has been considered the best player ever from one season or even 2. I dont think you can even put her into the best season ever category as players like Tanya Fisher who scored over 3,100 points and Rachel Otto who scored over 2,500 points in their careers clearly had to have had better single seasons. If Otto played 24 games a season from the time she was an 8th grader she still would have had to average 21 points per game every game to reach that level. For Fisher it is 25.8 a game. And to get to 24 games in a season you would have to play a minimum of 5 games in districts, regionals, and state each year. These players were not ball hogs who would go out to score 30 a game, they were just that good. Again, good player but not at that level. Did she deserve to be on one of the all-state teams last year, probably, but I think her omission speaks volumes for if she should be considered the best ever.

rock83 wrote:I agree she is a very good player watched her play a bunch. But we get a little carried away sometimes about some kids these days. We forget how truely good and how many great kids north dakota has had. Top 10 player in the HISTORY of class b girls basketball are you sure you want to go that far. Is it without question she has been the best player in the state by far the last two years. If you cant say that its a little hard to say she is top ten ever!

The Schwab wrote:Well after watching Benz play for a 5th time this year last night, She is definatly in this discussion, I would put her top 10.

Yes I would, no questions asked, she won a region championship this year by putting the entire county of Kidder on her back. Last night when the game was on the line and everyone in the gym was going crazy their was one poised face in that gym, it belonged to her, one of the better coaches in the history of ND girls bball probably spent the entire season thinking of a way he could contain her, and it simply wasn't possible. She is close to 6 foot, handles the ball like a PG and can shoot with either hand. I have no doubts when I say she is one of the best every in ND. I'm sure I will be disagreed with telling me how great these players from the 80's were, Eli Benz is better than almost every single one of them, no questions asked.

^^^^I have a new nominee for Common Man's Preposterous Statement tournament for next year!

First, the level of play is WAY down in comparison to what it was in the past. Are there still some great players absolutely, but the depth of teams and the overall fundamental skill level is not even close. I have seen Benz play at least 5 times and she is not even close to that level of play. You are saying she is better then Kleinsasser who was at one time the NCCs all time leading scorer. Or Nadine Schmidt or Lynett Mund who were two of the best players in D2 history! She is a talented player, deserves all the recognition she has gotten and will get, but she is no where close to those players.

Ok so then she's four, so she is better then almost every single one of them.

No those were just 3 off the top of my head. I even listed a 4th player in the post to follow that would have DOMINATED her. Sorry to say you are WAY off on your judgment of her ability and I feel I can state such considering everyone else on this board agrees with me. Maybe a top 20 player, maybe. I dont have time right now to sit down and list everyone but I will add Katie Richards, Rachel Otto, and Tanya Fisher. So i am already at at least 7.

I dont think this is anything to get upset about, and I CAN TYPE LIKE THIS TOO. I dont say that you can say anyone would have DOMINATED a 6 foot post player who handles the ball like a point guard and is one of the best passers I've seen. I feel I am just as qualified to judge players as you are. Congrats for getting the board to agree with you, I guess that means that your right?

Not upset, just emphasizing how strongly I disagree with you. Considering I was one of the last ones to disagree with you I would say I agree with the board and not them with me. And I would guess you have not seen Winger play either in HS or at UND and would guess you are not old enough to have seen or remember seeing any of the players play from around 1999 and earlier since you made comment about having not seen many players from before. Winger was 6'2 and had a deadly combination of being agile and strong. Which could be easy to say for a lot of players but she received national D2 recognition for strength and conditioning. Despite her scoring over 1700 points in HS she made her name at the HS and college level with her defensive play but still managed to score over 1,200 points at UND. To further show her athleticism I believe she had well over 1,500 kills in Volleyball also. That is why I said she would dominate her because quite frankly she would. Benz just surpassed 1,000 points in late January so she will only finish with around 1,200 points. There over 100 players that can say that. She is just not in that same level as the players mentioned. If she was scoring 22 a game with 15 boards and 4-5 assists then lets talk because that is what it takes over a 2-3 year period. I think her not being All-state last year proves that point. Great player, deserves recognition, but not All-Time recognition.

If we are making this a career award then she's probably not on the list, I would say if we are going on a talent level she's on the list. I feel that if she wanted to she could score 30 points a game, and I dont think that's a stretch, she makes great passes, her teammates just arent finishing all of the layups. She is also a great vball player from what I hear as well (never saw her play vball). I am usually one of the most outspoken people on this board, I feel very strongly about my opinions, just as you do. I dont feel we will change our opinions, agree to disagree?

But that's the thing. We are talking about the best class B girls player EVER. (Emphasis on ever) That is a career topic. Not one season. Name someone in any sport at any level that has been considered the best player ever from one season or even 2. I dont think you can even put her into the best season ever category as players like Tanya Fisher who scored over 3,100 points and Rachel Otto who scored over 2,500 points in their careers clearly had to have had better single seasons. If Otto played 24 games a season from the time she was an 8th grader she still would have had to average 21 points per game every game to reach that level. For Fisher it is 25.8 a game. And to get to 24 games in a season you would have to play a minimum of 5 games in districts, regionals, and state each year. These players were not ball hogs who would go out to score 30 a game, they were just that good. Again, good player but not at that level. Did she deserve to be on one of the all-state teams last year, probably, but I think her omission speaks volumes for if she should be considered the best ever.

So we are going to take her being left off the all state team as a reason she shouldn't be on this list? Sorry but I disagree with that. I didn't say she was the best ever, but she is in the discussion. I dont base who's the best strictly on stats, if you do that they you will tell me that Steve Blehm is the best ever to play the game of boys bball in ND?

Shauna Knife from Bottineau was the best Class B player last year, and was better than anyone playing this year, and she isn't even in the discussion. I think Benz is an outstanding player and has just led her team to a 2nd State appearance which is quite an accomplishment. As far as her getting overlooked for All-State...her own coach didn't promote her as the best player on his team (didn't Sand make All-State) so you can't blame the media for not giving her a look. Also, most of the top seniors this year are more known as great volleyball players who are also great basketball players rather than amazing basketball players...imo.

rock83 wrote:I agree she is a very good player watched her play a bunch. But we get a little carried away sometimes about some kids these days. We forget how truely good and how many great kids north dakota has had. Top 10 player in the HISTORY of class b girls basketball are you sure you want to go that far. Is it without question she has been the best player in the state by far the last two years. If you cant say that its a little hard to say she is top ten ever!

The Schwab wrote:Well after watching Benz play for a 5th time this year last night, She is definatly in this discussion, I would put her top 10.

Yes I would, no questions asked, she won a region championship this year by putting the entire county of Kidder on her back. Last night when the game was on the line and everyone in the gym was going crazy their was one poised face in that gym, it belonged to her, one of the better coaches in the history of ND girls bball probably spent the entire season thinking of a way he could contain her, and it simply wasn't possible. She is close to 6 foot, handles the ball like a PG and can shoot with either hand. I have no doubts when I say she is one of the best every in ND. I'm sure I will be disagreed with telling me how great these players from the 80's were, Eli Benz is better than almost every single one of them, no questions asked.

^^^^I have a new nominee for Common Man's Preposterous Statement tournament for next year!

First, the level of play is WAY down in comparison to what it was in the past. Are there still some great players absolutely, but the depth of teams and the overall fundamental skill level is not even close. I have seen Benz play at least 5 times and she is not even close to that level of play. You are saying she is better then Kleinsasser who was at one time the NCCs all time leading scorer. Or Nadine Schmidt or Lynett Mund who were two of the best players in D2 history! She is a talented player, deserves all the recognition she has gotten and will get, but she is no where close to those players.

Ok so then she's four, so she is better then almost every single one of them.

No those were just 3 off the top of my head. I even listed a 4th player in the post to follow that would have DOMINATED her. Sorry to say you are WAY off on your judgment of her ability and I feel I can state such considering everyone else on this board agrees with me. Maybe a top 20 player, maybe. I dont have time right now to sit down and list everyone but I will add Katie Richards, Rachel Otto, and Tanya Fisher. So i am already at at least 7.

I dont think this is anything to get upset about, and I CAN TYPE LIKE THIS TOO. I dont say that you can say anyone would have DOMINATED a 6 foot post player who handles the ball like a point guard and is one of the best passers I've seen. I feel I am just as qualified to judge players as you are. Congrats for getting the board to agree with you, I guess that means that your right?

Not upset, just emphasizing how strongly I disagree with you. Considering I was one of the last ones to disagree with you I would say I agree with the board and not them with me. And I would guess you have not seen Winger play either in HS or at UND and would guess you are not old enough to have seen or remember seeing any of the players play from around 1999 and earlier since you made comment about having not seen many players from before. Winger was 6'2 and had a deadly combination of being agile and strong. Which could be easy to say for a lot of players but she received national D2 recognition for strength and conditioning. Despite her scoring over 1700 points in HS she made her name at the HS and college level with her defensive play but still managed to score over 1,200 points at UND. To further show her athleticism I believe she had well over 1,500 kills in Volleyball also. That is why I said she would dominate her because quite frankly she would. Benz just surpassed 1,000 points in late January so she will only finish with around 1,200 points. There over 100 players that can say that. She is just not in that same level as the players mentioned. If she was scoring 22 a game with 15 boards and 4-5 assists then lets talk because that is what it takes over a 2-3 year period. I think her not being All-state last year proves that point. Great player, deserves recognition, but not All-Time recognition.

If we are making this a career award then she's probably not on the list, I would say if we are going on a talent level she's on the list. I feel that if she wanted to she could score 30 points a game, and I dont think that's a stretch, she makes great passes, her teammates just arent finishing all of the layups. She is also a great vball player from what I hear as well (never saw her play vball). I am usually one of the most outspoken people on this board, I feel very strongly about my opinions, just as you do. I dont feel we will change our opinions, agree to disagree?

But that's the thing. We are talking about the best class B girls player EVER. (Emphasis on ever) That is a career topic. Not one season. Name someone in any sport at any level that has been considered the best player ever from one season or even 2. I dont think you can even put her into the best season ever category as players like Tanya Fisher who scored over 3,100 points and Rachel Otto who scored over 2,500 points in their careers clearly had to have had better single seasons. If Otto played 24 games a season from the time she was an 8th grader she still would have had to average 21 points per game every game to reach that level. For Fisher it is 25.8 a game. And to get to 24 games in a season you would have to play a minimum of 5 games in districts, regionals, and state each year. These players were not ball hogs who would go out to score 30 a game, they were just that good. Again, good player but not at that level. Did she deserve to be on one of the all-state teams last year, probably, but I think her omission speaks volumes for if she should be considered the best ever.

So we are going to take her being left off the all state team as a reason she shouldn't be on this list? Sorry but I disagree with that. I didn't say she was the best ever, but she is in the discussion. I dont base who's the best strictly on stats, if you do that they you will tell me that Steve Blehm is the best ever to play the game of boys bball in ND?

Wait a minute, now you are backtracking. You just said "I didn't say she was the best ever, but she is in the discussion." But before you said quote... "I'm sure I will be disagreed with telling me how great these players from the 80's were, Eli Benz is better than almost every single one of them, no questions asked."... So which is it?

I am not just going off of stats, I am going off of what I have seen as I have seen most of them play before and the stats just further my point because they will finish with twice as many points in their careers. Not just more but double. I said I think she should have been selected for all state but she clearly was not a slam dunk case or she would have been selected. Anyone who belongs in the discussion for best player ever needs to have the whole package of stats, awards, and talent. If she was that good she would have contributed much earlier in her career because the rest of them sure did. Again, great player, but every year their is another Eli Benz who finishes with around 1,200 points and averages 9-10 boards a game and takes their team to the state tournament. Christine Miller was Miss Basketball from New Town and personally I think she was a more talented player and had considerably less for a team around her. I don't have Miller in this discussion because she is not good enough.

rock83 wrote:I agree she is a very good player watched her play a bunch. But we get a little carried away sometimes about some kids these days. We forget how truely good and how many great kids north dakota has had. Top 10 player in the HISTORY of class b girls basketball are you sure you want to go that far. Is it without question she has been the best player in the state by far the last two years. If you cant say that its a little hard to say she is top ten ever!

The Schwab wrote:Well after watching Benz play for a 5th time this year last night, She is definatly in this discussion, I would put her top 10.

Yes I would, no questions asked, she won a region championship this year by putting the entire county of Kidder on her back. Last night when the game was on the line and everyone in the gym was going crazy their was one poised face in that gym, it belonged to her, one of the better coaches in the history of ND girls bball probably spent the entire season thinking of a way he could contain her, and it simply wasn't possible. She is close to 6 foot, handles the ball like a PG and can shoot with either hand. I have no doubts when I say she is one of the best every in ND. I'm sure I will be disagreed with telling me how great these players from the 80's were, Eli Benz is better than almost every single one of them, no questions asked.

^^^^I have a new nominee for Common Man's Preposterous Statement tournament for next year!

First, the level of play is WAY down in comparison to what it was in the past. Are there still some great players absolutely, but the depth of teams and the overall fundamental skill level is not even close. I have seen Benz play at least 5 times and she is not even close to that level of play. You are saying she is better then Kleinsasser who was at one time the NCCs all time leading scorer. Or Nadine Schmidt or Lynett Mund who were two of the best players in D2 history! She is a talented player, deserves all the recognition she has gotten and will get, but she is no where close to those players.

Ok so then she's four, so she is better then almost every single one of them.

No those were just 3 off the top of my head. I even listed a 4th player in the post to follow that would have DOMINATED her. Sorry to say you are WAY off on your judgment of her ability and I feel I can state such considering everyone else on this board agrees with me. Maybe a top 20 player, maybe. I dont have time right now to sit down and list everyone but I will add Katie Richards, Rachel Otto, and Tanya Fisher. So i am already at at least 7.

I dont think this is anything to get upset about, and I CAN TYPE LIKE THIS TOO. I dont say that you can say anyone would have DOMINATED a 6 foot post player who handles the ball like a point guard and is one of the best passers I've seen. I feel I am just as qualified to judge players as you are. Congrats for getting the board to agree with you, I guess that means that your right?

Not upset, just emphasizing how strongly I disagree with you. Considering I was one of the last ones to disagree with you I would say I agree with the board and not them with me. And I would guess you have not seen Winger play either in HS or at UND and would guess you are not old enough to have seen or remember seeing any of the players play from around 1999 and earlier since you made comment about having not seen many players from before. Winger was 6'2 and had a deadly combination of being agile and strong. Which could be easy to say for a lot of players but she received national D2 recognition for strength and conditioning. Despite her scoring over 1700 points in HS she made her name at the HS and college level with her defensive play but still managed to score over 1,200 points at UND. To further show her athleticism I believe she had well over 1,500 kills in Volleyball also. That is why I said she would dominate her because quite frankly she would. Benz just surpassed 1,000 points in late January so she will only finish with around 1,200 points. There over 100 players that can say that. She is just not in that same level as the players mentioned. If she was scoring 22 a game with 15 boards and 4-5 assists then lets talk because that is what it takes over a 2-3 year period. I think her not being All-state last year proves that point. Great player, deserves recognition, but not All-Time recognition.

If we are making this a career award then she's probably not on the list, I would say if we are going on a talent level she's on the list. I feel that if she wanted to she could score 30 points a game, and I dont think that's a stretch, she makes great passes, her teammates just arent finishing all of the layups. She is also a great vball player from what I hear as well (never saw her play vball). I am usually one of the most outspoken people on this board, I feel very strongly about my opinions, just as you do. I dont feel we will change our opinions, agree to disagree?

But that's the thing. We are talking about the best class B girls player EVER. (Emphasis on ever) That is a career topic. Not one season. Name someone in any sport at any level that has been considered the best player ever from one season or even 2. I dont think you can even put her into the best season ever category as players like Tanya Fisher who scored over 3,100 points and Rachel Otto who scored over 2,500 points in their careers clearly had to have had better single seasons. If Otto played 24 games a season from the time she was an 8th grader she still would have had to average 21 points per game every game to reach that level. For Fisher it is 25.8 a game. And to get to 24 games in a season you would have to play a minimum of 5 games in districts, regionals, and state each year. These players were not ball hogs who would go out to score 30 a game, they were just that good. Again, good player but not at that level. Did she deserve to be on one of the all-state teams last year, probably, but I think her omission speaks volumes for if she should be considered the best ever.

So we are going to take her being left off the all state team as a reason she shouldn't be on this list? Sorry but I disagree with that. I didn't say she was the best ever, but she is in the discussion. I dont base who's the best strictly on stats, if you do that they you will tell me that Steve Blehm is the best ever to play the game of boys bball in ND?

Wait a minute, now you are backtracking. You just said "I didn't say she was the best ever, but she is in the discussion." But before you said quote... "I'm sure I will be disagreed with telling me how great these players from the 80's were, Eli Benz is better than almost every single one of them, no questions asked."... So which is it?

I am not just going off of stats, I am going off of what I have seen as I have seen most of them play before and the stats just further my point because they will finish with twice as many points in their careers. Not just more but double. I said I think she should have been selected for all state but she clearly was not a slam dunk case or she would have been selected. Anyone who belongs in the discussion for best player ever needs to have the whole package of stats, awards, and talent. If she was that good she would have contributed much earlier in her career because the rest of them sure did. Again, great player, but every year their is another Eli Benz who finishes with around 1,200 points and averages 9-10 boards a game and takes their team to the state tournament. Christine Miller was Miss Basketball from New Town and personally I think she was a more talented player and had considerably less for a team around her. I don't have Miller in this discussion because she is not good enough.

She is in the top 10, my opinion, your not going to change that either, I'm going just based on pure basketball ability. After the state tournament we can continue this discussion. Awards dont mean anything, stats only tell half the story, and as for the previous post saying that sand was promoted for all state....her dad was her head coach.

Definitely keep supporting Benz! She is outstanding, and this is simply a discussion on the past and the present. I showed some game tapes from the 80's to some young players, and they thought the plays were outdated and slow, and couldn't figure out why they weren't shooting very much from the outside. Also they laughed at the hair and uniforms...lol. I may not agree that she is the top player in Class B of all time, but because she is good and has a state championship under her belt, I will agree that she should be in the discussion. As far as not being promoted last year...the girl from KC who did get All-State did have a big role on her team, and did a nice job at it to help win the Championship. The only way any unselfish point guards ever get recognized at a high level is to win State. She did that.

rock83 wrote:I agree she is a very good player watched her play a bunch. But we get a little carried away sometimes about some kids these days. We forget how truely good and how many great kids north dakota has had. Top 10 player in the HISTORY of class b girls basketball are you sure you want to go that far. Is it without question she has been the best player in the state by far the last two years. If you cant say that its a little hard to say she is top ten ever!

The Schwab wrote:Well after watching Benz play for a 5th time this year last night, She is definatly in this discussion, I would put her top 10.

Yes I would, no questions asked, she won a region championship this year by putting the entire county of Kidder on her back. Last night when the game was on the line and everyone in the gym was going crazy their was one poised face in that gym, it belonged to her, one of the better coaches in the history of ND girls bball probably spent the entire season thinking of a way he could contain her, and it simply wasn't possible. She is close to 6 foot, handles the ball like a PG and can shoot with either hand. I have no doubts when I say she is one of the best every in ND. I'm sure I will be disagreed with telling me how great these players from the 80's were, Eli Benz is better than almost every single one of them, no questions asked.

^^^^I have a new nominee for Common Man's Preposterous Statement tournament for next year!

First, the level of play is WAY down in comparison to what it was in the past. Are there still some great players absolutely, but the depth of teams and the overall fundamental skill level is not even close. I have seen Benz play at least 5 times and she is not even close to that level of play. You are saying she is better then Kleinsasser who was at one time the NCCs all time leading scorer. Or Nadine Schmidt or Lynett Mund who were two of the best players in D2 history! She is a talented player, deserves all the recognition she has gotten and will get, but she is no where close to those players.

Ok so then she's four, so she is better then almost every single one of them.

No those were just 3 off the top of my head. I even listed a 4th player in the post to follow that would have DOMINATED her. Sorry to say you are WAY off on your judgment of her ability and I feel I can state such considering everyone else on this board agrees with me. Maybe a top 20 player, maybe. I dont have time right now to sit down and list everyone but I will add Katie Richards, Rachel Otto, and Tanya Fisher. So i am already at at least 7.

I dont think this is anything to get upset about, and I CAN TYPE LIKE THIS TOO. I dont say that you can say anyone would have DOMINATED a 6 foot post player who handles the ball like a point guard and is one of the best passers I've seen. I feel I am just as qualified to judge players as you are. Congrats for getting the board to agree with you, I guess that means that your right?

Not upset, just emphasizing how strongly I disagree with you. Considering I was one of the last ones to disagree with you I would say I agree with the board and not them with me. And I would guess you have not seen Winger play either in HS or at UND and would guess you are not old enough to have seen or remember seeing any of the players play from around 1999 and earlier since you made comment about having not seen many players from before. Winger was 6'2 and had a deadly combination of being agile and strong. Which could be easy to say for a lot of players but she received national D2 recognition for strength and conditioning. Despite her scoring over 1700 points in HS she made her name at the HS and college level with her defensive play but still managed to score over 1,200 points at UND. To further show her athleticism I believe she had well over 1,500 kills in Volleyball also. That is why I said she would dominate her because quite frankly she would. Benz just surpassed 1,000 points in late January so she will only finish with around 1,200 points. There over 100 players that can say that. She is just not in that same level as the players mentioned. If she was scoring 22 a game with 15 boards and 4-5 assists then lets talk because that is what it takes over a 2-3 year period. I think her not being All-state last year proves that point. Great player, deserves recognition, but not All-Time recognition.

If we are making this a career award then she's probably not on the list, I would say if we are going on a talent level she's on the list. I feel that if she wanted to she could score 30 points a game, and I dont think that's a stretch, she makes great passes, her teammates just arent finishing all of the layups. She is also a great vball player from what I hear as well (never saw her play vball). I am usually one of the most outspoken people on this board, I feel very strongly about my opinions, just as you do. I dont feel we will change our opinions, agree to disagree?

But that's the thing. We are talking about the best class B girls player EVER. (Emphasis on ever) That is a career topic. Not one season. Name someone in any sport at any level that has been considered the best player ever from one season or even 2. I dont think you can even put her into the best season ever category as players like Tanya Fisher who scored over 3,100 points and Rachel Otto who scored over 2,500 points in their careers clearly had to have had better single seasons. If Otto played 24 games a season from the time she was an 8th grader she still would have had to average 21 points per game every game to reach that level. For Fisher it is 25.8 a game. And to get to 24 games in a season you would have to play a minimum of 5 games in districts, regionals, and state each year. These players were not ball hogs who would go out to score 30 a game, they were just that good. Again, good player but not at that level. Did she deserve to be on one of the all-state teams last year, probably, but I think her omission speaks volumes for if she should be considered the best ever.

So we are going to take her being left off the all state team as a reason she shouldn't be on this list? Sorry but I disagree with that. I didn't say she was the best ever, but she is in the discussion. I dont base who's the best strictly on stats, if you do that they you will tell me that Steve Blehm is the best ever to play the game of boys bball in ND?

Wait a minute, now you are backtracking. You just said "I didn't say she was the best ever, but she is in the discussion." But before you said quote... "I'm sure I will be disagreed with telling me how great these players from the 80's were, Eli Benz is better than almost every single one of them, no questions asked."... So which is it?

I am not just going off of stats, I am going off of what I have seen as I have seen most of them play before and the stats just further my point because they will finish with twice as many points in their careers. Not just more but double. I said I think she should have been selected for all state but she clearly was not a slam dunk case or she would have been selected. Anyone who belongs in the discussion for best player ever needs to have the whole package of stats, awards, and talent. If she was that good she would have contributed much earlier in her career because the rest of them sure did. Again, great player, but every year their is another Eli Benz who finishes with around 1,200 points and averages 9-10 boards a game and takes their team to the state tournament. Christine Miller was Miss Basketball from New Town and personally I think she was a more talented player and had considerably less for a team around her. I don't have Miller in this discussion because she is not good enough.

She is in the top 10, my opinion, your not going to change that either, I'm going just based on pure basketball ability. After the state tournament we can continue this discussion. Awards dont mean anything, stats only tell half the story, and as for the previous post saying that sand was promoted for all state....her dad was her head coach.

I think it's fair to say that she shouldn't be in this discussion after tonight. I know its only one game, but this is the time of the year that makes great players rise to the level of best players. I would say she is a great player, but to say Top 10 is pretty absurd, and your opinion won't count for much making statements like these. Not trying to be mean, just saying...

rock83 wrote:I agree she is a very good player watched her play a bunch. But we get a little carried away sometimes about some kids these days. We forget how truely good and how many great kids north dakota has had. Top 10 player in the HISTORY of class b girls basketball are you sure you want to go that far. Is it without question she has been the best player in the state by far the last two years. If you cant say that its a little hard to say she is top ten ever!

The Schwab wrote:Well after watching Benz play for a 5th time this year last night, She is definatly in this discussion, I would put her top 10.

Yes I would, no questions asked, she won a region championship this year by putting the entire county of Kidder on her back. Last night when the game was on the line and everyone in the gym was going crazy their was one poised face in that gym, it belonged to her, one of the better coaches in the history of ND girls bball probably spent the entire season thinking of a way he could contain her, and it simply wasn't possible. She is close to 6 foot, handles the ball like a PG and can shoot with either hand. I have no doubts when I say she is one of the best every in ND. I'm sure I will be disagreed with telling me how great these players from the 80's were, Eli Benz is better than almost every single one of them, no questions asked.

^^^^I have a new nominee for Common Man's Preposterous Statement tournament for next year!

First, the level of play is WAY down in comparison to what it was in the past. Are there still some great players absolutely, but the depth of teams and the overall fundamental skill level is not even close. I have seen Benz play at least 5 times and she is not even close to that level of play. You are saying she is better then Kleinsasser who was at one time the NCCs all time leading scorer. Or Nadine Schmidt or Lynett Mund who were two of the best players in D2 history! She is a talented player, deserves all the recognition she has gotten and will get, but she is no where close to those players.

Ok so then she's four, so she is better then almost every single one of them.

No those were just 3 off the top of my head. I even listed a 4th player in the post to follow that would have DOMINATED her. Sorry to say you are WAY off on your judgment of her ability and I feel I can state such considering everyone else on this board agrees with me. Maybe a top 20 player, maybe. I dont have time right now to sit down and list everyone but I will add Katie Richards, Rachel Otto, and Tanya Fisher. So i am already at at least 7.

I dont think this is anything to get upset about, and I CAN TYPE LIKE THIS TOO. I dont say that you can say anyone would have DOMINATED a 6 foot post player who handles the ball like a point guard and is one of the best passers I've seen. I feel I am just as qualified to judge players as you are. Congrats for getting the board to agree with you, I guess that means that your right?

Not upset, just emphasizing how strongly I disagree with you. Considering I was one of the last ones to disagree with you I would say I agree with the board and not them with me. And I would guess you have not seen Winger play either in HS or at UND and would guess you are not old enough to have seen or remember seeing any of the players play from around 1999 and earlier since you made comment about having not seen many players from before. Winger was 6'2 and had a deadly combination of being agile and strong. Which could be easy to say for a lot of players but she received national D2 recognition for strength and conditioning. Despite her scoring over 1700 points in HS she made her name at the HS and college level with her defensive play but still managed to score over 1,200 points at UND. To further show her athleticism I believe she had well over 1,500 kills in Volleyball also. That is why I said she would dominate her because quite frankly she would. Benz just surpassed 1,000 points in late January so she will only finish with around 1,200 points. There over 100 players that can say that. She is just not in that same level as the players mentioned. If she was scoring 22 a game with 15 boards and 4-5 assists then lets talk because that is what it takes over a 2-3 year period. I think her not being All-state last year proves that point. Great player, deserves recognition, but not All-Time recognition.

If we are making this a career award then she's probably not on the list, I would say if we are going on a talent level she's on the list. I feel that if she wanted to she could score 30 points a game, and I dont think that's a stretch, she makes great passes, her teammates just arent finishing all of the layups. She is also a great vball player from what I hear as well (never saw her play vball). I am usually one of the most outspoken people on this board, I feel very strongly about my opinions, just as you do. I dont feel we will change our opinions, agree to disagree?

But that's the thing. We are talking about the best class B girls player EVER. (Emphasis on ever) That is a career topic. Not one season. Name someone in any sport at any level that has been considered the best player ever from one season or even 2. I dont think you can even put her into the best season ever category as players like Tanya Fisher who scored over 3,100 points and Rachel Otto who scored over 2,500 points in their careers clearly had to have had better single seasons. If Otto played 24 games a season from the time she was an 8th grader she still would have had to average 21 points per game every game to reach that level. For Fisher it is 25.8 a game. And to get to 24 games in a season you would have to play a minimum of 5 games in districts, regionals, and state each year. These players were not ball hogs who would go out to score 30 a game, they were just that good. Again, good player but not at that level. Did she deserve to be on one of the all-state teams last year, probably, but I think her omission speaks volumes for if she should be considered the best ever.

So we are going to take her being left off the all state team as a reason she shouldn't be on this list? Sorry but I disagree with that. I didn't say she was the best ever, but she is in the discussion. I dont base who's the best strictly on stats, if you do that they you will tell me that Steve Blehm is the best ever to play the game of boys bball in ND?

Wait a minute, now you are backtracking. You just said "I didn't say she was the best ever, but she is in the discussion." But before you said quote... "I'm sure I will be disagreed with telling me how great these players from the 80's were, Eli Benz is better than almost every single one of them, no questions asked."... So which is it?

I am not just going off of stats, I am going off of what I have seen as I have seen most of them play before and the stats just further my point because they will finish with twice as many points in their careers. Not just more but double. I said I think she should have been selected for all state but she clearly was not a slam dunk case or she would have been selected. Anyone who belongs in the discussion for best player ever needs to have the whole package of stats, awards, and talent. If she was that good she would have contributed much earlier in her career because the rest of them sure did. Again, great player, but every year their is another Eli Benz who finishes with around 1,200 points and averages 9-10 boards a game and takes their team to the state tournament. Christine Miller was Miss Basketball from New Town and personally I think she was a more talented player and had considerably less for a team around her. I don't have Miller in this discussion because she is not good enough.

Miller not good enough? I respectful disagree, but choosing the greatest Class B girls player is impossible to determine.

This is a rediculous topic. She isnt in the conversation as best ever in North Dakota. She is a very good player who is one of the best players in the state this year. She made it to two state tournaments and should make it on the all state team this year, so at most she deserved to be on two all state teams. Do you realize that many of these best players have been on 3 or 4 all state teams and have been to state 3, 4 some maybe even 5 times. She isnt the best player in the state tournament and she wasnt the best player by far in the state last year. So lets move on it makes no sense. Sometimes when a kid has some success we always have to take it to an extreme. Whats wrong with her being one of the best players in the state the last couple of years without making it something its not.

east sider wrote:

The Schwab wrote:

InTheKnow wrote:

The Schwab wrote:

InTheKnow wrote:

The Schwab wrote:

InTheKnow wrote:

The Schwab wrote:

InTheKnow wrote:

The Schwab wrote:

InTheKnow wrote:

The Schwab wrote:

rock83 wrote:I agree she is a very good player watched her play a bunch. But we get a little carried away sometimes about some kids these days. We forget how truely good and how many great kids north dakota has had. Top 10 player in the HISTORY of class b girls basketball are you sure you want to go that far. Is it without question she has been the best player in the state by far the last two years. If you cant say that its a little hard to say she is top ten ever!

The Schwab wrote:Well after watching Benz play for a 5th time this year last night, She is definatly in this discussion, I would put her top 10.

Yes I would, no questions asked, she won a region championship this year by putting the entire county of Kidder on her back. Last night when the game was on the line and everyone in the gym was going crazy their was one poised face in that gym, it belonged to her, one of the better coaches in the history of ND girls bball probably spent the entire season thinking of a way he could contain her, and it simply wasn't possible. She is close to 6 foot, handles the ball like a PG and can shoot with either hand. I have no doubts when I say she is one of the best every in ND. I'm sure I will be disagreed with telling me how great these players from the 80's were, Eli Benz is better than almost every single one of them, no questions asked.

^^^^I have a new nominee for Common Man's Preposterous Statement tournament for next year!

First, the level of play is WAY down in comparison to what it was in the past. Are there still some great players absolutely, but the depth of teams and the overall fundamental skill level is not even close. I have seen Benz play at least 5 times and she is not even close to that level of play. You are saying she is better then Kleinsasser who was at one time the NCCs all time leading scorer. Or Nadine Schmidt or Lynett Mund who were two of the best players in D2 history! She is a talented player, deserves all the recognition she has gotten and will get, but she is no where close to those players.

Ok so then she's four, so she is better then almost every single one of them.

No those were just 3 off the top of my head. I even listed a 4th player in the post to follow that would have DOMINATED her. Sorry to say you are WAY off on your judgment of her ability and I feel I can state such considering everyone else on this board agrees with me. Maybe a top 20 player, maybe. I dont have time right now to sit down and list everyone but I will add Katie Richards, Rachel Otto, and Tanya Fisher. So i am already at at least 7.

I dont think this is anything to get upset about, and I CAN TYPE LIKE THIS TOO. I dont say that you can say anyone would have DOMINATED a 6 foot post player who handles the ball like a point guard and is one of the best passers I've seen. I feel I am just as qualified to judge players as you are. Congrats for getting the board to agree with you, I guess that means that your right?

Not upset, just emphasizing how strongly I disagree with you. Considering I was one of the last ones to disagree with you I would say I agree with the board and not them with me. And I would guess you have not seen Winger play either in HS or at UND and would guess you are not old enough to have seen or remember seeing any of the players play from around 1999 and earlier since you made comment about having not seen many players from before. Winger was 6'2 and had a deadly combination of being agile and strong. Which could be easy to say for a lot of players but she received national D2 recognition for strength and conditioning. Despite her scoring over 1700 points in HS she made her name at the HS and college level with her defensive play but still managed to score over 1,200 points at UND. To further show her athleticism I believe she had well over 1,500 kills in Volleyball also. That is why I said she would dominate her because quite frankly she would. Benz just surpassed 1,000 points in late January so she will only finish with around 1,200 points. There over 100 players that can say that. She is just not in that same level as the players mentioned. If she was scoring 22 a game with 15 boards and 4-5 assists then lets talk because that is what it takes over a 2-3 year period. I think her not being All-state last year proves that point. Great player, deserves recognition, but not All-Time recognition.

If we are making this a career award then she's probably not on the list, I would say if we are going on a talent level she's on the list. I feel that if she wanted to she could score 30 points a game, and I dont think that's a stretch, she makes great passes, her teammates just arent finishing all of the layups. She is also a great vball player from what I hear as well (never saw her play vball). I am usually one of the most outspoken people on this board, I feel very strongly about my opinions, just as you do. I dont feel we will change our opinions, agree to disagree?

But that's the thing. We are talking about the best class B girls player EVER. (Emphasis on ever) That is a career topic. Not one season. Name someone in any sport at any level that has been considered the best player ever from one season or even 2. I dont think you can even put her into the best season ever category as players like Tanya Fisher who scored over 3,100 points and Rachel Otto who scored over 2,500 points in their careers clearly had to have had better single seasons. If Otto played 24 games a season from the time she was an 8th grader she still would have had to average 21 points per game every game to reach that level. For Fisher it is 25.8 a game. And to get to 24 games in a season you would have to play a minimum of 5 games in districts, regionals, and state each year. These players were not ball hogs who would go out to score 30 a game, they were just that good. Again, good player but not at that level. Did she deserve to be on one of the all-state teams last year, probably, but I think her omission speaks volumes for if she should be considered the best ever.

So we are going to take her being left off the all state team as a reason she shouldn't be on this list? Sorry but I disagree with that. I didn't say she was the best ever, but she is in the discussion. I dont base who's the best strictly on stats, if you do that they you will tell me that Steve Blehm is the best ever to play the game of boys bball in ND?

Wait a minute, now you are backtracking. You just said "I didn't say she was the best ever, but she is in the discussion." But before you said quote... "I'm sure I will be disagreed with telling me how great these players from the 80's were, Eli Benz is better than almost every single one of them, no questions asked."... So which is it?

I am not just going off of stats, I am going off of what I have seen as I have seen most of them play before and the stats just further my point because they will finish with twice as many points in their careers. Not just more but double. I said I think she should have been selected for all state but she clearly was not a slam dunk case or she would have been selected. Anyone who belongs in the discussion for best player ever needs to have the whole package of stats, awards, and talent. If she was that good she would have contributed much earlier in her career because the rest of them sure did. Again, great player, but every year their is another Eli Benz who finishes with around 1,200 points and averages 9-10 boards a game and takes their team to the state tournament. Christine Miller was Miss Basketball from New Town and personally I think she was a more talented player and had considerably less for a team around her. I don't have Miller in this discussion because she is not good enough.

She is in the top 10, my opinion, your not going to change that either, I'm going just based on pure basketball ability. After the state tournament we can continue this discussion. Awards dont mean anything, stats only tell half the story, and as for the previous post saying that sand was promoted for all state....her dad was her head coach.

I think it's fair to say that she shouldn't be in this discussion after tonight. I know its only one game, but this is the time of the year that makes great players rise to the level of best players. I would say she is a great player, but to say Top 10 is pretty absurd, and your opinion won't count for much making statements like these. Not trying to be mean, just saying...

rock83 wrote:This is a rediculous topic. She isnt in the conversation as best ever in North Dakota. She is a very good player who is one of the best players in the state this year. She made it to two state tournaments and should make it on the all state team this year, so at most she deserved to be on two all state teams. Do you realize that many of these best players have been on 3 or 4 all state teams and have been to state 3, 4 some maybe even 5 times. She isnt the best player in the state tournament and she wasnt the best player by far in the state last year. So lets move on it makes no sense. Sometimes when a kid has some success we always have to take it to an extreme. Whats wrong with her being one of the best players in the state the last couple of years without making it something its not.

east sider wrote:

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rock83 wrote:I agree she is a very good player watched her play a bunch. But we get a little carried away sometimes about some kids these days. We forget how truely good and how many great kids north dakota has had. Top 10 player in the HISTORY of class b girls basketball are you sure you want to go that far. Is it without question she has been the best player in the state by far the last two years. If you cant say that its a little hard to say she is top ten ever!

The Schwab wrote:Well after watching Benz play for a 5th time this year last night, She is definatly in this discussion, I would put her top 10.

Yes I would, no questions asked, she won a region championship this year by putting the entire county of Kidder on her back. Last night when the game was on the line and everyone in the gym was going crazy their was one poised face in that gym, it belonged to her, one of the better coaches in the history of ND girls bball probably spent the entire season thinking of a way he could contain her, and it simply wasn't possible. She is close to 6 foot, handles the ball like a PG and can shoot with either hand. I have no doubts when I say she is one of the best every in ND. I'm sure I will be disagreed with telling me how great these players from the 80's were, Eli Benz is better than almost every single one of them, no questions asked.

^^^^I have a new nominee for Common Man's Preposterous Statement tournament for next year!

First, the level of play is WAY down in comparison to what it was in the past. Are there still some great players absolutely, but the depth of teams and the overall fundamental skill level is not even close. I have seen Benz play at least 5 times and she is not even close to that level of play. You are saying she is better then Kleinsasser who was at one time the NCCs all time leading scorer. Or Nadine Schmidt or Lynett Mund who were two of the best players in D2 history! She is a talented player, deserves all the recognition she has gotten and will get, but she is no where close to those players.

Ok so then she's four, so she is better then almost every single one of them.

No those were just 3 off the top of my head. I even listed a 4th player in the post to follow that would have DOMINATED her. Sorry to say you are WAY off on your judgment of her ability and I feel I can state such considering everyone else on this board agrees with me. Maybe a top 20 player, maybe. I dont have time right now to sit down and list everyone but I will add Katie Richards, Rachel Otto, and Tanya Fisher. So i am already at at least 7.

I dont think this is anything to get upset about, and I CAN TYPE LIKE THIS TOO. I dont say that you can say anyone would have DOMINATED a 6 foot post player who handles the ball like a point guard and is one of the best passers I've seen. I feel I am just as qualified to judge players as you are. Congrats for getting the board to agree with you, I guess that means that your right?

Not upset, just emphasizing how strongly I disagree with you. Considering I was one of the last ones to disagree with you I would say I agree with the board and not them with me. And I would guess you have not seen Winger play either in HS or at UND and would guess you are not old enough to have seen or remember seeing any of the players play from around 1999 and earlier since you made comment about having not seen many players from before. Winger was 6'2 and had a deadly combination of being agile and strong. Which could be easy to say for a lot of players but she received national D2 recognition for strength and conditioning. Despite her scoring over 1700 points in HS she made her name at the HS and college level with her defensive play but still managed to score over 1,200 points at UND. To further show her athleticism I believe she had well over 1,500 kills in Volleyball also. That is why I said she would dominate her because quite frankly she would. Benz just surpassed 1,000 points in late January so she will only finish with around 1,200 points. There over 100 players that can say that. She is just not in that same level as the players mentioned. If she was scoring 22 a game with 15 boards and 4-5 assists then lets talk because that is what it takes over a 2-3 year period. I think her not being All-state last year proves that point. Great player, deserves recognition, but not All-Time recognition.

If we are making this a career award then she's probably not on the list, I would say if we are going on a talent level she's on the list. I feel that if she wanted to she could score 30 points a game, and I dont think that's a stretch, she makes great passes, her teammates just arent finishing all of the layups. She is also a great vball player from what I hear as well (never saw her play vball). I am usually one of the most outspoken people on this board, I feel very strongly about my opinions, just as you do. I dont feel we will change our opinions, agree to disagree?

But that's the thing. We are talking about the best class B girls player EVER. (Emphasis on ever) That is a career topic. Not one season. Name someone in any sport at any level that has been considered the best player ever from one season or even 2. I dont think you can even put her into the best season ever category as players like Tanya Fisher who scored over 3,100 points and Rachel Otto who scored over 2,500 points in their careers clearly had to have had better single seasons. If Otto played 24 games a season from the time she was an 8th grader she still would have had to average 21 points per game every game to reach that level. For Fisher it is 25.8 a game. And to get to 24 games in a season you would have to play a minimum of 5 games in districts, regionals, and state each year. These players were not ball hogs who would go out to score 30 a game, they were just that good. Again, good player but not at that level. Did she deserve to be on one of the all-state teams last year, probably, but I think her omission speaks volumes for if she should be considered the best ever.

So we are going to take her being left off the all state team as a reason she shouldn't be on this list? Sorry but I disagree with that. I didn't say she was the best ever, but she is in the discussion. I dont base who's the best strictly on stats, if you do that they you will tell me that Steve Blehm is the best ever to play the game of boys bball in ND?

Wait a minute, now you are backtracking. You just said "I didn't say she was the best ever, but she is in the discussion." But before you said quote... "I'm sure I will be disagreed with telling me how great these players from the 80's were, Eli Benz is better than almost every single one of them, no questions asked."... So which is it?

I am not just going off of stats, I am going off of what I have seen as I have seen most of them play before and the stats just further my point because they will finish with twice as many points in their careers. Not just more but double. I said I think she should have been selected for all state but she clearly was not a slam dunk case or she would have been selected. Anyone who belongs in the discussion for best player ever needs to have the whole package of stats, awards, and talent. If she was that good she would have contributed much earlier in her career because the rest of them sure did. Again, great player, but every year their is another Eli Benz who finishes with around 1,200 points and averages 9-10 boards a game and takes their team to the state tournament. Christine Miller was Miss Basketball from New Town and personally I think she was a more talented player and had considerably less for a team around her. I don't have Miller in this discussion because she is not good enough.

She is in the top 10, my opinion, your not going to change that either, I'm going just based on pure basketball ability. After the state tournament we can continue this discussion. Awards dont mean anything, stats only tell half the story, and as for the previous post saying that sand was promoted for all state....her dad was her head coach.

I think it's fair to say that she shouldn't be in this discussion after tonight. I know its only one game, but this is the time of the year that makes great players rise to the level of best players. I would say she is a great player, but to say Top 10 is pretty absurd, and your opinion won't count for much making statements like these. Not trying to be mean, just saying...

Why wont my opinion count for much? I never said you had to agree with me. I feel that she is one of the most TALENTED players to play class B girls basketball, I NEVER SAID SHE WILL HAVE MORE STATE APPEARANCES, AWARDS ETC... I don't care if you dont agree with me, you are allowed to have an opinion just as much as I am. And if you are basing your opinions off of ONE GAME then I probably wont listen to your opinion. She was the ONLY player on her team this year, she was a true Point/Center. I know 99 percent of you don't agree with me and that's fine, but if you can find parts of her game that she is not as skilled as the players that you say are better than her I will happily debate them with you, I will NOT debate state appearances/awards.

rock83 wrote:This is a rediculous topic. She isnt in the conversation as best ever in North Dakota. She is a very good player who is one of the best players in the state this year. She made it to two state tournaments and should make it on the all state team this year, so at most she deserved to be on two all state teams. Do you realize that many of these best players have been on 3 or 4 all state teams and have been to state 3, 4 some maybe even 5 times. She isnt the best player in the state tournament and she wasnt the best player by far in the state last year. So lets move on it makes no sense. Sometimes when a kid has some success we always have to take it to an extreme. Whats wrong with her being one of the best players in the state the last couple of years without making it something its not.

east sider wrote:

The Schwab wrote:

InTheKnow wrote:

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InTheKnow wrote:

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rock83 wrote:I agree she is a very good player watched her play a bunch. But we get a little carried away sometimes about some kids these days. We forget how truely good and how many great kids north dakota has had. Top 10 player in the HISTORY of class b girls basketball are you sure you want to go that far. Is it without question she has been the best player in the state by far the last two years. If you cant say that its a little hard to say she is top ten ever!

The Schwab wrote:Well after watching Benz play for a 5th time this year last night, She is definatly in this discussion, I would put her top 10.

Yes I would, no questions asked, she won a region championship this year by putting the entire county of Kidder on her back. Last night when the game was on the line and everyone in the gym was going crazy their was one poised face in that gym, it belonged to her, one of the better coaches in the history of ND girls bball probably spent the entire season thinking of a way he could contain her, and it simply wasn't possible. She is close to 6 foot, handles the ball like a PG and can shoot with either hand. I have no doubts when I say she is one of the best every in ND. I'm sure I will be disagreed with telling me how great these players from the 80's were, Eli Benz is better than almost every single one of them, no questions asked.

^^^^I have a new nominee for Common Man's Preposterous Statement tournament for next year!

First, the level of play is WAY down in comparison to what it was in the past. Are there still some great players absolutely, but the depth of teams and the overall fundamental skill level is not even close. I have seen Benz play at least 5 times and she is not even close to that level of play. You are saying she is better then Kleinsasser who was at one time the NCCs all time leading scorer. Or Nadine Schmidt or Lynett Mund who were two of the best players in D2 history! She is a talented player, deserves all the recognition she has gotten and will get, but she is no where close to those players.

Ok so then she's four, so she is better then almost every single one of them.

No those were just 3 off the top of my head. I even listed a 4th player in the post to follow that would have DOMINATED her. Sorry to say you are WAY off on your judgment of her ability and I feel I can state such considering everyone else on this board agrees with me. Maybe a top 20 player, maybe. I dont have time right now to sit down and list everyone but I will add Katie Richards, Rachel Otto, and Tanya Fisher. So i am already at at least 7.

I dont think this is anything to get upset about, and I CAN TYPE LIKE THIS TOO. I dont say that you can say anyone would have DOMINATED a 6 foot post player who handles the ball like a point guard and is one of the best passers I've seen. I feel I am just as qualified to judge players as you are. Congrats for getting the board to agree with you, I guess that means that your right?

Not upset, just emphasizing how strongly I disagree with you. Considering I was one of the last ones to disagree with you I would say I agree with the board and not them with me. And I would guess you have not seen Winger play either in HS or at UND and would guess you are not old enough to have seen or remember seeing any of the players play from around 1999 and earlier since you made comment about having not seen many players from before. Winger was 6'2 and had a deadly combination of being agile and strong. Which could be easy to say for a lot of players but she received national D2 recognition for strength and conditioning. Despite her scoring over 1700 points in HS she made her name at the HS and college level with her defensive play but still managed to score over 1,200 points at UND. To further show her athleticism I believe she had well over 1,500 kills in Volleyball also. That is why I said she would dominate her because quite frankly she would. Benz just surpassed 1,000 points in late January so she will only finish with around 1,200 points. There over 100 players that can say that. She is just not in that same level as the players mentioned. If she was scoring 22 a game with 15 boards and 4-5 assists then lets talk because that is what it takes over a 2-3 year period. I think her not being All-state last year proves that point. Great player, deserves recognition, but not All-Time recognition.

If we are making this a career award then she's probably not on the list, I would say if we are going on a talent level she's on the list. I feel that if she wanted to she could score 30 points a game, and I dont think that's a stretch, she makes great passes, her teammates just arent finishing all of the layups. She is also a great vball player from what I hear as well (never saw her play vball). I am usually one of the most outspoken people on this board, I feel very strongly about my opinions, just as you do. I dont feel we will change our opinions, agree to disagree?

But that's the thing. We are talking about the best class B girls player EVER. (Emphasis on ever) That is a career topic. Not one season. Name someone in any sport at any level that has been considered the best player ever from one season or even 2. I dont think you can even put her into the best season ever category as players like Tanya Fisher who scored over 3,100 points and Rachel Otto who scored over 2,500 points in their careers clearly had to have had better single seasons. If Otto played 24 games a season from the time she was an 8th grader she still would have had to average 21 points per game every game to reach that level. For Fisher it is 25.8 a game. And to get to 24 games in a season you would have to play a minimum of 5 games in districts, regionals, and state each year. These players were not ball hogs who would go out to score 30 a game, they were just that good. Again, good player but not at that level. Did she deserve to be on one of the all-state teams last year, probably, but I think her omission speaks volumes for if she should be considered the best ever.

So we are going to take her being left off the all state team as a reason she shouldn't be on this list? Sorry but I disagree with that. I didn't say she was the best ever, but she is in the discussion. I dont base who's the best strictly on stats, if you do that they you will tell me that Steve Blehm is the best ever to play the game of boys bball in ND?

Wait a minute, now you are backtracking. You just said "I didn't say she was the best ever, but she is in the discussion." But before you said quote... "I'm sure I will be disagreed with telling me how great these players from the 80's were, Eli Benz is better than almost every single one of them, no questions asked."... So which is it?

I am not just going off of stats, I am going off of what I have seen as I have seen most of them play before and the stats just further my point because they will finish with twice as many points in their careers. Not just more but double. I said I think she should have been selected for all state but she clearly was not a slam dunk case or she would have been selected. Anyone who belongs in the discussion for best player ever needs to have the whole package of stats, awards, and talent. If she was that good she would have contributed much earlier in her career because the rest of them sure did. Again, great player, but every year their is another Eli Benz who finishes with around 1,200 points and averages 9-10 boards a game and takes their team to the state tournament. Christine Miller was Miss Basketball from New Town and personally I think she was a more talented player and had considerably less for a team around her. I don't have Miller in this discussion because she is not good enough.

She is in the top 10, my opinion, your not going to change that either, I'm going just based on pure basketball ability. After the state tournament we can continue this discussion. Awards dont mean anything, stats only tell half the story, and as for the previous post saying that sand was promoted for all state....her dad was her head coach.

I think it's fair to say that she shouldn't be in this discussion after tonight. I know its only one game, but this is the time of the year that makes great players rise to the level of best players. I would say she is a great player, but to say Top 10 is pretty absurd, and your opinion won't count for much making statements like these. Not trying to be mean, just saying...

Why wont my opinion count for much? I never said you had to agree with me. I feel that she is one of the most TALENTED players to play class B girls basketball, I NEVER SAID SHE WILL HAVE MORE STATE APPEARANCES, AWARDS ETC... I don't care if you dont agree with me, you are allowed to have an opinion just as much as I am. And if you are basing your opinions off of ONE GAME then I probably wont listen to your opinion. She was the ONLY player on her team this year, she was a true Point/Center. I know 99 percent of you don't agree with me and that's fine, but if you can find parts of her game that she is not as skilled as the players that you say are better than her I will happily debate them with you, I will NOT debate state appearances/awards.

I'm willing to bet my opinion has more to back it up than yours b/c it actually takes into consideration girls that played more than 3 years ago. Benz wasn't even the best player on the court last night arguably, and your proclaiming her as one of the best ever! We are talking EVER, and you seem to not grasp that concept very well. The girls that people have mentioned weren't "maybe" the best player on the court when they played, they definitely were (for multiple years) and everybody in the gym knew it. All I'm saying is that I wish you and others your age (I'm assuming you aren't very old) had more patience and respect for the great players before you before making the claims, especially before their senior year is even over!

And just to appease you I'll point some things out about Benz compared to a list of say top 50: scoring she would be at the bottom, rebounds are decent, but for a post she would be at the bottom, don't know her blocked shots so...assists for a post she is towards the top, and turnovers she would be at the bottom as evidence by her 10 last night, which any other player on this list would never do. So by your own guidelines, she still doesn't come close to best ever. But I wish her the best after HS, maybe she'll be one of the best ever in college from ND. I'm done with her, so feel free to debate against yourself

My opinion takes into players during the other years, I've heard Leah Klabo's name thrown around in a couple of them. Don't try to talk down to me, your coming on a message board, there are going to be different opinions, I said aspect of her games not stats, I am also done on this topic.

This was an interesting topic that was also somewhat nostalgic, and it turned into bashing a player to talk up another. Too bad for that...all the girls mentioned are/were noteworthing and good players, otherwise there wouldn't be any discussion on them. The game has changed so much over the last 25-30 years that it is really unrealistic to think we can pick one or rule out anyone, and why would we want to?

I dont think that anyone is bashing anyone. Saying that a player isnt the best player ever or one of the top players ever isnt bashing. She is still a great player, and one of the best players the last couple years. But the topic is silly.

scoobyx2 wrote:This was an interesting topic that was also somewhat nostalgic, and it turned into bashing a player to talk up another. Too bad for that...all the girls mentioned are/were noteworthing and good players, otherwise there wouldn't be any discussion on them. The game has changed so much over the last 25-30 years that it is really unrealistic to think we can pick one or rule out anyone, and why would we want to?

Best old-school was Patty Puppe, Neche HS, 1975. Think she averaged around 25ppg on a team with not much support. Took them to the District Finals, losing maybe a couple games. She could outplay all the boys her age, including an all-conference player. I know she also went to state in Softball throw and Shot, might have won one of those events. She was on one of the covers of the early publication as the player of the year way back when. Grew up playing baseball, basketball, football, whatever with the boys until organized Girls Basketball started around 1974. Played volleyball in college.