Need Serious Dog Advise

From:
Veronica1stbaby

To: km0529

Posted: Apr-10 08:47 AM (42 of 57)

It just dawned on me- your dog is probably overstimulated and just like a toddler, that creates behavior problems. practice postive reinforcement and get a cage. puppies need tons of sleep just like babies and the dog is probably being overstimulated hence these snaps. She probably needs for more time alone to sleep than she is getting. A dog that age and younger isnt ready to be out all day playing, especially if there are people home most of the day. Also remove her to a quiet isolated environment the moment she gets too rough to teach her that behavior isnt okay. if she goes in the house and you dont catch her in the act, its over- she doesnt understand why you are hitting her. It will just make her skittish around ppl bc to her she is getting hit for no reason. Cage training also cuts down on accidents bc she is coming out only when she's used the bathroom outside, to eat, and for short play times. Google crate training for more info. Chewing and stuff can be resolved with a firm no or a noise can (soda can with pennies taped inside- dogs HATE IT) to deter the behavior. its not just that hitting is cruel, it isnt effective.

It just dawned on me- your dog is probably overstimulated and just like a toddler, that creates behavior problems. practice postive reinforcement and get a cage. puppies need tons of sleep just like babies and the dog is probably being overstimulated hence these snaps. She probably needs for more time alone to sleep than she is getting. A dog that age and younger isnt ready to be out all day playing, especially if there are people home most of the day. Also remove her to a quiet isolated environment the moment she gets too rough to teach her that behavior isnt okay. if she goes in the house and you dont catch her in the act, its over- she doesnt understand why you are hitting her. It will just make her skittish around ppl bc to her she is getting hit for no reason. Cage training also cuts down on accidents bc she is coming out only when she's used the bathroom outside, to eat, and for short play times. Google crate training for more info. Chewing and stuff can be resolved with a firm no or a noise can (soda can with pennies taped inside- dogs HATE IT) to deter the behavior. its not just that hitting is cruel, it isnt effective.

Omg I don't know if you will even read this, but please please don't listen to ignorant people who suggest having this dog put down. That's insane. One of the dogs I currently have was adopted as an older puppy...not quite a year old, we think. He was VERY fearful at first, of just about everything. If you disciplined him, he snapped, if you tried to physically move him off of the bed he snapped, if you got too close to his face he snapped. He never bit, but he gave warnings, like you said. I can NOT imagine having put him down. None of this behavior was his fault, nor was it beyond working out. Now, with lots of love and patience, and the right kinds of discipline, plus him just becoming more secure in our "pack", he is the best, most loving dog (at least around humans). When people come over, he squeals with excitement, and just wants to be loved. He's even great around babies and kids...although we have to work on not jumping...he just gets so excited. Trust me, there is still hope for your dog. She is insecure and afraid right now and needs help. Yes it might take professional help, but it might just take some work and patience on your part. Ugh, some peoples attitudes toward animals are disgusting. And ignorant.

Omg I don't know if you will even read this, but please please don't listen to ignorant people who suggest having this dog put down. That's insane. One of the dogs I currently have was adopted as an older puppy...not quite a year old, we think. He was VERY fearful at first, of just about everything. If you disciplined him, he snapped, if you tried to physically move him off of the bed he snapped, if you got too close to his face he snapped. He never bit, but he gave warnings, like you said. I can NOT imagine having put him down. None of this behavior was his fault, nor was it beyond working out. Now, with lots of love and patience, and the right kinds of discipline, plus him just becoming more secure in our "pack", he is the best, most loving dog (at least around humans). When people come over, he squeals with excitement, and just wants to be loved. He's even great around babies and kids...although we have to work on not jumping...he just gets so excited. Trust me, there is still hope for your dog. She is insecure and afraid right now and needs help. Yes it might take professional help, but it might just take some work and patience on your part. Ugh, some peoples attitudes toward animals are disgusting. And ignorant.

Well, after being involved in dogs my entire life, and learning about many LONGTIME professional training methods, often from the trainer personally, AND, being involved with AKC events, I can tell you that you would have a HARD time finding a SINGLE longtime well known, reputable trainer who would stand behind Ceasars methods. I will say 95% of them consider him irresponsible and dangerous. His method is hotly debated on boards - people watch him, become instant experts, and end up bitten. Professional trainers can't stand the guy, and his methods are unsafe. He based his 'methods' on the roots of MANY MANY reputable trainers, alpha, etc... yet, Ceasar advocates things that simply put a band aid on bad behavior. Get ANY dog physically exhausted, and yeah, it wont be that motivated to behave badly, but thats NOT training the dog.

He was sued for almost killing several dogs. Sued for many medical bills for others. Sued over bites and his 'method' and has so many detractors online its amazing hes still in business. The show keeps his business going. Thats it.

And, IMO, regardless of why a dog is biting or snapping - aside from physical trauma or injury - the dog has no place in a home with children. I would never own an animal who snapped at a family member or friend, under any circumstances - IF the dog was uninjured. (A dog snapping with an injury is the ONLY forgivable circumstance in my opinion)

I'd put a dog down. VERY easy to say place it, but then, you are shuffling the problem on to someone else. Which is about as irresponsible as keeping a biter in a home with kids. Sorry, I ADORE my dogs, but my children come first.

Well, after being involved in dogs my entire life, and learning about many LONGTIME professional training methods, often from the trainer personally, AND, being involved with AKC events, I can tell you that you would have a HARD time finding a SINGLE longtime well known, reputable trainer who would stand behind Ceasars methods. I will say 95% of them consider him irresponsible and dangerous. His method is hotly debated on boards - people watch him, become instant experts, and end up bitten. Professional trainers can't stand the guy, and his methods are unsafe. He based his 'methods' on the roots of MANY MANY reputable trainers, alpha, etc... yet, Ceasar advocates things that simply put a band aid on bad behavior. Get ANY dog physically exhausted, and yeah, it wont be that motivated to behave badly, but thats NOT training the dog.

He was sued for almost killing several dogs. Sued for many medical bills for others. Sued over bites and his 'method' and has so many detractors online its amazing hes still in business. The show keeps his business going. Thats it.

And, IMO, regardless of why a dog is biting or snapping - aside from physical trauma or injury - the dog has no place in a home with children. I would never own an animal who snapped at a family member or friend, under any circumstances - IF the dog was uninjured. (A dog snapping with an injury is the ONLY forgivable circumstance in my opinion)

I'd put a dog down. VERY easy to say place it, but then, you are shuffling the problem on to someone else. Which is about as irresponsible as keeping a biter in a home with kids. Sorry, I ADORE my dogs, but my children come first.

I'm confused. If Cesar Milan's methods are so bad, how is he able to have all of those dogs (his own) behave well together and with his kids, etc? I just don't get it. It makes sense to me to redirect a dog's attention - to "snap them out of it" so to speak, when they're about to react to some kind of stimulus. Isn't that what he's doing?

Anyway, I don't see why a 7 mo. old pup has to be put down. If you can give the dog up to an owner who doesn't have small children and is willing to work with the dog through the aggression it has, I don't see that as "passing on the problem". It's much better to me than putting it down.

I'm confused. If Cesar Milan's methods are so bad, how is he able to have all of those dogs (his own) behave well together and with his kids, etc? I just don't get it. It makes sense to me to redirect a dog's attention - to "snap them out of it" so to speak, when they're about to react to some kind of stimulus. Isn't that what he's doing?

Anyway, I don't see why a 7 mo. old pup has to be put down. If you can give the dog up to an owner who doesn't have small children and is willing to work with the dog through the aggression it has, I don't see that as "passing on the problem". It's much better to me than putting it down.

It doesn't take a genius or expert to run large groups of dogs. I had 7 in my house at one point - ALL intact as I was actively showing dogs at the time, and that group included 4 females, and 3 males - which normally is a no-go. Its a matter of posture, speaking, and basing your methods on sound training. Id be willing to bet he doesn't run his dogs miles a day, nor do I think the entire group is always together. Living with dogs and training your own is MUCH different than training a dog from another household. You cannot step in, and have permanent results within a matter of days. Its an ongoing process.

As for the dog, Im stating my personal opinion. I would not keep, or place a dog who snapped at a child. Thats MY OWN beliefs, but over the years, Ive placed many pups and dogs in homes, and my standards for temperament are insanely high. Im a person who feels EVERY dog I place represents my breed, good or bad, and I absolutely will not tolerate a bad temperament in any dog I own, breed, or would breed to.

My family actually got OUT of a breed due to temperaments going drastically downhill - this was a longtime love of my mothers - and she was heartbroken to see the ongoing damage done to temperaments, and the oblivious tolerance by breeders to serious temperament issues. In larger breeds, a bad temperament, or even a questionable one is a serious liability.

I tend to be a bit black and white on that topic, due to the fact that one of these dogs snapped at my daughter when she was about 3. Called the breeder, who did not want him euthanized - they wanted him back to 'evaluate' him. They took him back and BRED him. He was responsible for a long line of bad temperaments. This dog was trained, and raised like any other dog we owned... and never before or since had an issue. Sad, yet true. But, perhaps thats why Im so adamant about NOT owning dogs with even a HINT of the likelihood of biting.

It doesn't take a genius or expert to run large groups of dogs. I had 7 in my house at one point - ALL intact as I was actively showing dogs at the time, and that group included 4 females, and 3 males - which normally is a no-go. Its a matter of posture, speaking, and basing your methods on sound training. Id be willing to bet he doesn't run his dogs miles a day, nor do I think the entire group is always together. Living with dogs and training your own is MUCH different than training a dog from another household. You cannot step in, and have permanent results within a matter of days. Its an ongoing process.

As for the dog, Im stating my personal opinion. I would not keep, or place a dog who snapped at a child. Thats MY OWN beliefs, but over the years, Ive placed many pups and dogs in homes, and my standards for temperament are insanely high. Im a person who feels EVERY dog I place represents my breed, good or bad, and I absolutely will not tolerate a bad temperament in any dog I own, breed, or would breed to.

My family actually got OUT of a breed due to temperaments going drastically downhill - this was a longtime love of my mothers - and she was heartbroken to see the ongoing damage done to temperaments, and the oblivious tolerance by breeders to serious temperament issues. In larger breeds, a bad temperament, or even a questionable one is a serious liability.

I tend to be a bit black and white on that topic, due to the fact that one of these dogs snapped at my daughter when she was about 3. Called the breeder, who did not want him euthanized - they wanted him back to 'evaluate' him. They took him back and BRED him. He was responsible for a long line of bad temperaments. This dog was trained, and raised like any other dog we owned... and never before or since had an issue. Sad, yet true. But, perhaps thats why Im so adamant about NOT owning dogs with even a HINT of the likelihood of biting.

Again not backing up Cesar Millan, but he has been sued twice and not for what you think. First was by his book publishers for copyright infringment. The second was because someone said his dog was injured on the tredmill at Cesars dog rehabilitaion center, but it was settled out of court. Just wanted to clarify for others who might read your post and wonder about the sueings.

Again not backing up Cesar Millan, but he has been sued twice and not for what you think. First was by his book publishers for copyright infringment. The second was because someone said his dog was injured on the tredmill at Cesars dog rehabilitaion center, but it was settled out of court. Just wanted to clarify for others who might read your post and wonder about the sueings.

I will have to find the site that lists all the settlements etc against him. There are indeed more - there are a few websites out there that list all the legal issues involving him, or his training center. Not just two, by any means.

I will have to find the site that lists all the settlements etc against him. There are indeed more - there are a few websites out there that list all the legal issues involving him, or his training center. Not just two, by any means.

If you check out any search engine (I used Google and Yahoo) - aside from his Wiki page, right off you can locate where he's tried to have legal issues removed from Websites listing them. He has settled on several injury suits - and, has since gone with a non-disclosure contract in some cases. Nice eh? I'll post on a few of the dog forums Im on and ask for the links to his legal issues, settlement info, etc. I tried to dig up the thread listing em, but its been awhile since I've been active on those forums. His name brings up WAY too many hits to use it, so Im awaiting replies!

As a note - heres a short list of only a few professional credible trainers and associations comments who have spoken out against him - interesting read.

My point is, he should never be recommended to a normal pet owner to train any dog, particularly one who has possible aggression issues.

If you check out any search engine (I used Google and Yahoo) - aside from his Wiki page, right off you can locate where he's tried to have legal issues removed from Websites listing them. He has settled on several injury suits - and, has since gone with a non-disclosure contract in some cases. Nice eh? I'll post on a few of the dog forums Im on and ask for the links to his legal issues, settlement info, etc. I tried to dig up the thread listing em, but its been awhile since I've been active on those forums. His name brings up WAY too many hits to use it, so Im awaiting replies!

As a note - heres a short list of only a few professional credible trainers and associations comments who have spoken out against him - interesting read.

Dogs are just sensing a change in hormones. I'm not the least but worried about me dog and baby. When I have baby, I will get my husband to bring the blanket baby was wrapped in at the hospital for the dog to smell before me and baby go home. That way, he'll get a sense of the baby's smell.

Dogs are just sensing a change in hormones. I'm not the least but worried about me dog and baby. When I have baby, I will get my husband to bring the blanket baby was wrapped in at the hospital for the dog to smell before me and baby go home. That way, he'll get a sense of the baby's smell.

Funny I can't find an actual case all of them I looked at were all supposed ones people heard of but aren't actual suits. Will you talk to your board to find a link to one? I'm actually pretty interested now. Thanks!

Funny I can't find an actual case all of them I looked at were all supposed ones people heard of but aren't actual suits. Will you talk to your board to find a link to one? I'm actually pretty interested now. Thanks!

I do agree, though, with him not solving some aggression issues and not teaching people, especially on tv where people will obviously try to follow his techniques even though they clearly shouldn't. I feel an actual trainer should be the one to help deal with aggression issues.

I do agree, though, with him not solving some aggression issues and not teaching people, especially on tv where people will obviously try to follow his techniques even though they clearly shouldn't. I feel an actual trainer should be the one to help deal with aggression issues.

My neighbor has got a puppy n 5 kids, the puppy has recently started biting on the lead and I found out why, if he didn't do wat the 7 yr old wanted (move when she move) she would kick him, and for no reason. My dog went through a stage of whenever new people came around n trying to go up to get n stroke her she would try to bite, she's quite an old dog as well, know she's completely different strangers come in and she goes running and is the friendliest I've ever seen her. Dont have a clue why she's suddenly changed

My neighbor has got a puppy n 5 kids, the puppy has recently started biting on the lead and I found out why, if he didn't do wat the 7 yr old wanted (move when she move) she would kick him, and for no reason. My dog went through a stage of whenever new people came around n trying to go up to get n stroke her she would try to bite, she's quite an old dog as well, know she's completely different strangers come in and she goes running and is the friendliest I've ever seen her. Dont have a clue why she's suddenly changed

If you're on facebook, look up the Liam J. Perk foundation page. They discuss tons of tips about dogs and kids and link you to great blogs devoted to all the issues relating to having happy healthy relationships with dogs/ kids...they are also very devoted to educating on dog/ family relationships. The Perk family has a very moving story and it is their mission to help people like you who are having questions :)

If you're on facebook, look up the Liam J. Perk foundation page. They discuss tons of tips about dogs and kids and link you to great blogs devoted to all the issues relating to having happy healthy relationships with dogs/ kids...they are also very devoted to educating on dog/ family relationships. The Perk family has a very moving story and it is their mission to help people like you who are having questions :)

A friend of mine had a dog for years before their first son was born. He was always a sweet, well behaved dog. One day when their son was almost a year old, the dog bit him on the face. He had to have major surgeries to repair the damage and he will be scarred for life (though the docs were amazing and it isn't nearly as bad as it could have been). They immediately got rid of their dog. I would do the same. My children's safety will always take priority over my dogs. I love my dogs, but we will not stand for them biting anybody - especially kids.

A friend of mine had a dog for years before their first son was born. He was always a sweet, well behaved dog. One day when their son was almost a year old, the dog bit him on the face. He had to have major surgeries to repair the damage and he will be scarred for life (though the docs were amazing and it isn't nearly as bad as it could have been). They immediately got rid of their dog. I would do the same. My children's safety will always take priority over my dogs. I love my dogs, but we will not stand for them biting anybody - especially kids.

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