(Q) Thank you very much. That does further clarify my question. Relative to the point you made about the grace, I have to share further from her story because it so beautifully demonstrates how the grace manifests as strong a choice as the influence of evil does. From my observations and experience, most often in the exact same moment.

On her way to the first session with me,‭ ‬she told me she almost got in an accident.‭ ‬As the car cut her off,‭ ‬she was enraged‭ (‬Aries/Lucifer stuff,‭ ‬both the anger AND the near accident‭)‬,‭ ‬but as the car pulled in front of her,‭ ‬a bumper sticker on it said‭ " ‬PRAY...JUST DO IT‭!" (‬Getting beyond Lucifer in the‭ ‬12th‭)‬.‭ ‬ALSO an Aries energy...Just do it‭! ‬During the session with her,‭ ‬I asked during the work,‭ ‬silently,‭ ‬what is her soul's true desire in this life,‭ ‬and saw her acting as an art therapist.‭ ‬Later when I shared that information with her and asked her if that was meaningful to her she shared this story.‭ ‬She had been committed to an institution several years ago for treatment.‭ ‬She was given the option‭ (‬a choice‭!) ‬to have one of‭ ‬2‭ ‬extracurricular activities,‭ ‬one was play volleyball,‭ ‬the other was Art Therapy.‭ ‬She chose the volleyball because she wanted to be outside.‭ ‬One day while playing,‭ ‬the ball rolled into the art therapy room while they were in session.‭ ‬She went in to get the ball,‭ ‬and she didn't like the way the therapist told her to be more careful.‭ ‬It really angered her‭ (‬Aries‭ ‬-‭ ‬or as you say her desire for power was outraged‭) ‬to the point that she quit volleyball to join art therapy so that she could be in the class to get even with the therapist.‭ ‬This was truly her only conscious motivation at that point to join that activity.‭ ‬What transpired over a period of time was that she opened up immensely,‭ ‬really came to love that therapist and became quite accomplished at art to the point that her therapist encouraged her to use her art degree to become a therapist herself‭ ( ‬her special destiny‭)‬.‭ ‬I didn't know she had an art degree until she told me that story.‭ ‬At the point that she came to me for her first session and that information came through for her,‭ ‬it validated her to the point to move beyond the Lucifer in Capricorn doubt and depression that she was mired in and to really consider that earlier suggestion by her therapist and pursue the training.‭ ‬She hadn't acted upon the choice that was given to her until then.‭ ‬A week after that session I had with her,‭ ‬that therapist contacted her‭ (‬she had not talked with her in‭ ‬2‭ ‬years‭) ‬to tell her that she thinks of her all the time and ask how she was she doing.‭ ‬Again,‭ ‬an open door for her.‭ ‬Now that is grace in action--reaching thru the exact manifestation of evil in an almost Chirotic sense that the wound is the healing.‭ ‬Grace used the anger and the ability to act to even get her on that path to begin with,‭ ‬and further to reassure her thru the doubt that this was her truth.‭ ‬And,‭ ‬the grace was persistent and patient‭ (‬Capricorn/Taurus‭) ‬in revealing the divine will and plan for her.‭ ‬I am always stunned by the beauty and grace available to us,‭ ‬most especially in our darkest times--if we only listen and make the right choice.‭

Lucifer‭ & ‬also Part of Fortune

(Q‭) ‬I have a few questions and am using things in my own chart as examples here.‭ ‬My intention is to grasp the underlying principles so I can apply them to other situations.‭ ‬If this is not OK here,‭ ‬just say so.

‭(A) In general, this is not the place for personal information relative to one's chart, and how these principles manifest in your chart is not necessarily how they will manifest in another's.

‭(Q) (1) I have Lucifer in the 4th house at 29 Pisces inconjunct a 9th house Saturn at 29 Leo. Based on what I've read in the Evil material, this seems to say that when I have a 9th house crisis from an inconsistency in my spiritual philosophy being revealed to me, it throws me into a 4th house insecurity crisis, when I can doubt myself, my intentions, have guilt triggered, etc. What I got from the Evil material is that there is a more insidious side to that 4th house crisis--the feelings of insecurity are more like bait trying to suck me into a bottomless pit of insecurity and self-doubt, to pull me into the darkness and distract me from the Light. It feels like its all coming from within me, but that’s not completely true. Is this an accurate way of looking at it?

(A‭) ‬It is part of the dynamics that you have brought into this life.‭ ‬As such,‭ ‬this is where the influence can take over those dynamics and magnify them out of all proportion relative to the inherent nature of those dynamics within yourself.‭ ‬Conversely,‭ ‬we must remember that the symbol of Lucifer is not just about evil‭; ‬it is also the‭ '‬Bearer of Light.‭' ‬Thus,‭ ‬the solution to the problem of evil's influence is contained in the very same symbol of Lucifer as Bearer of Light,‭ ‬which means that it would manifest as sudden realizations and insights that seem to‭ '‬occur by themselves‭' ‬into the nature of Truth,‭ ‬be it cosmic,‭ ‬collective,‭ ‬or individual truths.

‭(Q) (2) Lucifer in the chart of the woman I mostly recently lived with exactly opposed my Lucifer, at 29 Virgo. I've gotten no insights on the significance of this. What is this about? How would that dynamic play out between two people?

(A‭) ‬This of course entirely depends on the total nature of the dynamics between the two of you.‭ ‬There is no way to say how it manifested between you both without knowing the whole context.

‭(Q) (3) Part of Fortune - you said recently that, to you, it represents the place in life where the person feels most at home. Mine's in the 12th house. Would this explain my orientation to what I can only describe as feeling like a mystic, and feeling most myself when I'm thinking about or talking to people about God and the totality of life?

(Q‭) ‬In your evolutionary context,‭ ‬this is more about your Lucifer in Pisces in the‭ ‬4th,‭ ‬but remember,‭ ‬the part of fortune is where we naturally gravitate for a sense of well being.‭ ‬So this means that your deepest‭ '‬sense of well being‭' ‬is based on spiritual things,‭ ‬including the desire to help others.

‭(Q) Also, this is in Scorpio. What does Scorpio represent here--betrayal of shared confidences of spiritual truths in past lives, possibly being declared a heretic through betrayal?

(A‭) ‬This is more about your‭ ‬8th house Pluto,‭ ‬but given that your part of fortune is then ruled by that Pluto--you get the picture now.

‭(Q) Memories of getting in trouble for speaking my truth about the nature of God in ways that were outside of consensus belief systems?

(A‭) ‬This is about the inconjunct from your ninth house Saturn to your‭ ‬4th house Lucifer.

Lucifer/Skipped step

(Q‭) ‬I am trying to make some sense of a chart that has Pluto in Virgo in the‭ ‬5th conjunct Uranus‭ (‬new phase‭)‬.‭ ‬The South Node is in the‭ ‬6th in Libra,‭ ‬with the ruler Venus in the‭ ‬12th‭ (‬15‭ ‬Taurus‭) ‬balsamic to the Sun‭ (‬25‭ ‬Taurus‭)‬,‭ ‬which is right on the ascendant‭ (‬25‭ ‬Taurus‭ ‬58‭)‬.‭ ‬Neptune is in exact opposition to the Sun in the‭ ‬6th in Scorpio.‭ ‬Jupiter in Leo in the‭ ‬4th makes a T-square to Sun/Neptune.‭ ‬The North Node ruler is Mars in Gemini in the first house in a new phase conjunction to Mercury,‭ ‬which squares Pluto/Uranus.‭ ‬The North Node is in the‭ ‬12th in a balsamic conjunction to Saturn,‭ ‬just‭ ‬2‭ ‬degrees apart.‭ ‬The skipped step is the Moon in the‭ ‬9th in Capricorn,‭ ‬with Lucifer in a balsamic conjunction to it.‭ ‬Lucifer,‭ ‬Pluto,‭ ‬Uranus and Neptune are all retrograde.‭ ‬There is a grand trine of the Moon/Lucifer,‭ ‬Venus/Sun Pluto/Uranus.

I was wondering if the Lucifer conjunct the Moon in the‭ ‬9th would mean that‭ ‬this person's self image is blinded by evil‭? ‬Also,‭ ‬Pandora is in Pisces in the‭ ‬11th opposite Pluto.‭ ‬This is the chart of a female in the first individuated state.‭ ‬I sense that there is some problem with the truth here indicated by the Jupiter T-square.‭ ‬At the same time,‭ ‬Jupiter is trine the North Node and sextile to the South Node.‭ ‬Chiron is in Aries in the‭ ‬11th.‭

I can't figure out if the person herself may have been controlling and perhaps sadistic,‭ (‬the grand trine of Pluto in Virgo in the fifth,‭ ‬trine the Moon in Capricorn and Venus in Taurus‭) ‬and at the same time appearing‭ "‬holy‭" ‬with that Venus in the‭ ‬12th‭ (‬Neptune opposes Venus too‭)‬,‭ ‬or if she is rather masochistic,‭ ‬or has the tendency to play out both roles time to time‭? ‬Lucifer conjunct the Moon especially confuses me.‭ ‬I wonder if this may have been a sign for a possibility of making a contract.‭ ‬But I don't see much‭ ‬8th house or Scorpio emphasis apart from Neptune being in Scorpio in the‭ ‬6th on the descendent.‭ ‬The‭ ‬8th house has no planets in it,‭ ‬has Sagittarius on the cusp,‭ ‬and so is ruled by that Jupiter.‭ ‬The resolution Node is obviously the South Node,‭ ‬so something was not learned about equality and the right service to society,‭ ‬and also something was not improved personally,‭ ‬is that correct‭?

Would it be true in this case that the soul is at least influenced by evil‭? ‬And somehow as a compensation,‭ ‬it exerts power over others‭ (‬Capricorn on the‭ ‬9th‭)? ‬Also,‭ ‬having Pandora very close to the Polarity Point of Pluto suggests to me the same issue that something is going on here with an evil influence,‭ ‬at least.‭

Cancer on the‭ ‬3rd house cusp suggests to me that the person has been a nurturer and a‭ "‬teacher‭" (‬9th house Moon‭)‬,‭ ‬yet the Moon squares Saturn.‭ ‬In addition,‭ ‬the‭ ‬4th house is cusp is‭ ‬29‭ ‬Cancer‭ ‬34,‭ ‬and Leo is intercepted in the‭ ‬4th,‭ ‬with Jupiter there making a T-square,‭ ‬indicating that there is some problem with what appears to be nurturing.‭ ‬I don't know the person's occupation,‭ ‬but I have a feeling she could have been a teacher and covertly abusing kids.‭ ‬Or,‭ ‬am I misunderstanding something in here‭?

(A‭) ‬The various possibilities that you have asked about do exist,‭ ‬except your statement about Lucifer/Moon being a‭ '‬sign‭' ‬of a contract.‭ ‬There is no way to know from any chart,‭ ‬no matter where Lucifer is placed,‭ ‬whether a specific soul has actually made a contract with evil.‭ ‬This can only be known through observation of and interaction with the client herself.‭ ‬You will have to interact with the person in some way to determine through such interaction and observation which of the various archetypal possibilities the person has actually orientated too.‭ ‬The chart is just that:‭ ‬a range of archetypal possibilities.‭ ‬There is no way to know from just looking at a chart which choices any given person has made.‭ ‬The choices themselves determine the archetypes that the person has chosen to involve herself or himself with.

Lucifer/Separating Desires

(Q‭) ‬I once asked you if Pluto/Scorpio‭ (‬Soul‭) ‬could be likened to a mini-Lucifer,‭ ‬kind of a macrocosm/microcosm type of idea related to the dynamics of Lucifer‭ (‬as the resolution to Lucifer is contained right within the symbol itself‭)‬,‭ ‬to which you replied‭ "‬Yes.‭" ‬Within this,‭ ‬is the example of Hitler as Lucifer's most evil expression,‭ ‬but the flip side of Yogananda as Lucifer's most‭ "‬pure‭" ‬expression,‭ ‬i.e.‭ ‬Pluto‭ = ‬choice/making--the desire to separate vs.‭ ‬the desire to return.‭ ‬So,‭ ‬in turn,‭ ‬I feel Lucifer would give us additional information as to the nature of any given soul's separating desires.‭ ‬Since Lucifer influences us where we are most emotionally weak,‭ ‬this too would be where our own separating desires exist.‭ ‬My questions within this are:‭

With Pluto retrograde in the natal chart,‭ ‬there is an emphasis on the desire to return,‭ ‬so my thinking is that when Lucifer is retrograde in the natal chart‭ ‬-‭ ‬given the meaning of Lucifer‭ ‬-‭ ‬that this reflects where one has more of a desire to separate,‭ ‬in ways indicated by the house/sign/aspects.‭ ‬That is,‭ ‬the Lucifer retrograde would indicate more of desire to separate than to return.‭ ‬If that IS the case,‭ ‬and if Pluto is also retrograde in a chart,‭ ‬would there then be an even more intense struggle within the soul between the desire to separate and the desire to return,‭ ‬i.e.,‭ ‬it would be similar to having Neptune in the‭ ‬8th or Scorpio‭?

When Lucifer retrogrades through transit,‭ ‬would this not also emphasize the separating desires relative to the natal position of Lucifer as well as where in the chart the transiting Lucifer is and the aspects it's making‭? ‬During the retrograde period,‭ ‬does one have the opportunity,‭ ‬so to speak,‭ ‬to reflect on the nature of his or her own separating desires and then to make new choices based on that inner reflection‭? ‬And if we can look at it this way,‭ ‬i.e.,‭ ‬as a recognition of one's separating desires,‭ ‬then does this not give the soul more power over the influence of evil,‭ ‬via the acknowledgment of it's own separating desires and then choosing to work on eliminating those separating desires‭?

(A‭) ‬No,‭ ‬it does not mean any of that.‭ ‬When Lucifer is retrograde for life or thru transit,‭ ‬it means that we are given an‭ '‬opportunity‭' ‬to utterly stop the influence of evil from occurring.‭ ‬This opportunity occurs either thru the amount of time that the Lucifer retrograde transit correlates to,‭ ‬or through a life imprint,‭ ‬meaning the whole life,‭ ‬where the opportunity manifests through the soul recreating the very emotional dynamics that served as the trigger through which the influence of evil occurred.‭ ‬The opportunity manifests in such a way as to require a total detachment from those circumstances and consciously acknowledging it as such:‭ "‬This is where I am weak and susceptible to this influence,‭" ‬and then applying conscious will to utterly change those old responses,‭ ‬which have been distorted and magnified because of the influence of evil,‭ ‬to realign with God's intent via the Lucifer symbol,‭ ‬the Bearer of Light archetype.‭

Pact versus Contract

(Q‭) ‬Is there a difference between a pact and a contract with evil‭? ‬In Paulo Cohelo's semi-autobiographical book,‭ ‬The Valkyries,‭ ‬there is a description of what sounds very much like a contract with evil,‭ ‬however,‭ ‬it is called a pact.‭ ‬I am concerned because this is an author who is an international best selling one,‭ ‬and he is talking about a ritual to break the pact‭ (‬and we have learned that one cannot break a contract‭)‬.‭ ‬He has written very interesting and highly acclaimed spiritual type books like The Alchemist and The Pilgrimage,‭ ‬but is this a man who has made a contract with evil‭? ‬Perhaps I have misunderstood the passage and it is about someone who avoided a‭ "‬pact.‭" ‬Could you or anyone else who is familiar with this book enlighten me‭?

(A‭) ‬A pact is the same as a contract,‭ ‬and it can not be broken.‭ ‬I have not heard of the fellow that you speak of.

Aura Pictures

(Q‭) ‬In the aura pictures one can have taken,‭ ‬or if one reads auras,‭ ‬why would a deep purple aura manifest around a person who,‭ ‬thru observation,‭ ‬is heavily influenced by evil‭? (‬The person is also in an individuated stage of evolution‭)‬.‭ ‬Is it possible that this could be evil itself tricking the person into thinking they're something that they're not‭? ‬And thru extension,‭ ‬if the person shows the picture to others,‭ ‬it's meant to trick others into thinking that the person is very spiritual,‭ ‬with the intent being to gain power over others‭?

(A‭) ‬If there has not been an actual contract made with evil,‭ ‬then I would say that this correlates to the struggle between God and evil for this person's soul because the purple correlates to the sacral chakra,‭ ‬thus sexuality.‭ ‬It is through the emotional/sexual body that evil's influence primarily occurs,‭ ‬thus the struggle for the soul also occurs through that chakra first,‭ ‬then the naval chakra.

Lucifer transiting the South Node

(Q‭) ‬Would a transit of Lucifer to the South Node bring an influence or experience of whatever was earlier failed or self-undermining in key past lives‭?

(A‭) ‬Yes,‭ ‬it can.‭ ‬Conversely,‭ ‬the influence of God/Goddess in that same transit can bring realizations of how to move forward,‭ ‬evolve beyond,‭ ‬anything in one's past that is binding them to that past.

‭(Q) Would it vary by evolutionary state, i.e., what 'symptoms' would we expect, maybe consensus state person regressing in not self-helpful ways, maybe individuated state person trying to evade conscious responsibility and go into victim thinking, maybe spiritual state person having profound bouts of doubting?

Well, I wrote this at the same time as you RAD and read your response, so I decided to post my answer as I wrote it and then maybe you can tell me where I am wrong. Thanks. Maybe we are talking differently about contract vs. influence.....

Although I perceive readily how this dynamic could evolve-- and it is a similar dynamic to the one that you traced in Mit Romney's soul development-- what I am finding surprising is the identification of victimhood/disempowerment as the most common experience leading towards a true surrender to evil. I certainly see the pattern, but it just differs from what I normally see as the roots/causes of disempowerment. I think Ellen and others are asking this in various ways, but I'll echo by asking if this dynamic is principally a reflection of evolutionary stage development--of younger souls/egos responding to pain/adversity with a compassionless desire to turn the tables or gain revenge?

Steven

I just wanted to say that the answer to this is no. It can be a phenomenon of feeling 'abandoned' by god by older souls as well. There are periods in all stages of the souls evolution where the suffering that occurs or the trials that the soul is experiencing can be such that the soul does not consciously understand why it is happening to them. Does the soul consciously understand why its entire family was just slaughtered or why everyone around them is starving and dying for example? There can be a tremendously deep suffering within people that causes them to question existence. Imagine having that feeling when you believe, as many people do, that god is on their side.....then tragedy.... or a long period of trauma, desperation..... and then 'why are you doing this to me?'......or even...."my god, why have you forsaken me?" There is the consciousness of abandonment and victimization......that is when evil can make its move, it depends on the level of desperation and anyone can get weakened enough to put themselves in a position to falter... people have been in incredibly compromising positions throughout the history of humanity, today all over the world and forever in the past......you can have a series of lifetimes in incredibly compromising situations. There are so many variables where evil can say 'hello' and let you know it is there. JWG told me that the closer a soul gets to light, the impurities must manifest first.....so there is another struggle there with people that are not such young souls. It is not an evolutionary stage development. How much more exciting is it for evil to take one away that was so close to the light? What a victory from the perspective of evil, right? He caught the big fish.

Everything you said is all basically true. It is within the consensus state however where, in general, the actual contracts with Evil are made. That does not mean that from time to time Souls that have evolved in the Spiritual evolutionary condition can not 'succumb' to this influence of Evil leading to a contract, but it is in fact relatively rare.

I was going to post the following tomorrow but will post it now because it concerns these issues.

God Bless, Rad

***********

from the transcripts:

1‭) ‬This is an issue we have discussed,‭ ‬and I am interested in your insights about it.‭ ‬Can Evil corrupt a soul in‭ ‬3rd stage spiritual‭? ‬It would seem that after having gone through the egocentric readjustments of the‭ ‬2nd stage spiritual,‭ ‬the soul would be well anchored in universal truth.

‭(A) Yes, it is more than possible for the Soul to become influenced or corrupted by Evil in the 3rd Stage Spiritual. Remember that almost every day of Jesus' life, for example, he would say "Satan get behind me". This means that Evil or Satan would attempt to 'influence' even a Soul like Jesus in a variety of ways. We must remember that the very existence of Evil is DEPENDENT upon souls maintaining their separating desires, any desire that takes the Soul AWAY from God/Goddess. Thus, as the Soul progressively eliminates such separating desires and becomes ever closer to God/Goddess, the very existence of Evil is threatened. As a result, Evil will attempt with all its power and force to 'seduce' such a Soul in a variety of ways in order to keep it separate from God/Goddess.

Another example is the great Yogananda.‭ ‬After he had established his center for monks and nuns at Mt.‭ ‬Washington,‭ ‬there came a time in which Evil descended in full force upon not only him,‭ ‬but also his disciples as manifested in the monks and nuns.‭ ‬Please remember that Evil always operates and manifests through our negative emotions.‭ ‬As a result,‭ ‬many of the existing monks and nuns became influenced in this way and left Mt.‭ ‬Washington.‭ ‬Yogananda himself was‭ '‬attacked‭' ‬by this Evil in the form of having his legs almost totally paralyzed for a period of time,‭ ‬and so on.‭

(Q2‭) ‬According to your description here,‭ ‬as well as what you once told us about evil becoming particularly strong when one is on the edge of their first experience of‭ '‬cosmic consciousness,‭' ‬or actual,‭ ‬direct perception of God/Goddess,‭ ‬my understanding is that,‭ ‬while evil is always active,‭ ‬it becomes even more‭ '‬insistent,‭' ‬more active when any soul is about to make a major shift in consciousness.‭ ‬Would this also be true not only at each level of samadhi or expansion of consciousness thru the evolution thru the spiritual stages,‭ ‬but at each‭ '‬gate‭' ‬so to speak thru any and/or all of the evolutionary stages,‭ ‬to keep the soul from moving forwards‭? ‬And within this,‭ ‬as shown thru the examples of Jesus and Yogananda,‭ ‬then one must be a fully and finally liberated soul before they are‭ '‬safe‭' ‬from the influence of evil‭; ‬so,‭ ‬since Yogananda will return one more time,‭ ‬he will have to face this‭ '‬influence‭'‬,‭ ‬this temptation thru this last lifetime as well.

‭(A) Yes, at each gate, or moving from one evolutionary condition to the next, evil's influence increases in an effort to hold the soul back. And, yes, it takes a final 'liberation' of the soul so that such an influence ceases to exist. So, yes, given that Yogananda will have one more time on Earth he will be subjected to this influence.

‭(Q1) Just a clarification. The soul in the 3rd stage spiritual is indeed tempted by Evil, but the question is, can it be corrupted? The example of Jesus and Yogananda shows that in their stage, they kept being centered in truth despite everything. A spiritual soul that would succumb to the illusion of separation would in a sense relate more to the 2nd Spiritual stage. If I am wrong, than what is the difference between 3rd stage spiritual and 2nd stage spiritual on that basis?

(A‭) ‬If you mean an absolute corruption,‭ ‬the answer is no.‭ ‬A soul in the third stage spiritual can in fact,‭ ‬from time to time,‭ ‬be‭ '‬fooled‭' ‬by evil,‭ '‬tricked‭' ‬by evil,‭ ‬or‭ '‬confused‭' ‬by evil,‭ ‬but not corrupted in the sense of‭ '‬buying into it,‭' ‬which would then set in motion a reverse evolution.

In response to Steven you wrote: "And, yes, generally speaking those who be tempted to make contract with Evil occurs somewhere within the Consensus State of evolution."

So do Souls who have made contracts with evil not evolve beyond Consensus? And if a Soul further along in development (individuated or spiritual) makes a contract, what happens? Do they de-volve?

Also, following up on what Steven wrote, I am struggling with the fact that it is the experience of feeling victimized and disempowered that leads to this. It seems to me that on the one hand, one must develop compassion for oneself if one is to heal, yet at the same time, doesn't compassion, by its very definition, take into account the "victimization" that has happened? (ie, needs not having been meant, traumas that one has experienced, etc.....). Just very confusing for me. Steven brought up Romney. Are we not to have compassion for him/his Soul?

Not sure I could follow up with you if your answer to this were yes, but are you by any chance available for consultations on this matter?

Thank you for sharing this information, Rad. This is an issue that has always terrified me. But I am starting to understand how important it is to understand it and be aware of it.

1) Since Souls who make contracts with evil do so with complete awareness, does one have to be evolved to a certain evolutionary stage to be able to do so?

*****************

From the consensus state onwards ......

This one is difficult for me. Doesn't seem like a Consensus has developed enough awareness to truly understand what they are choosing.....?************************

2) Is it possible for a Soul to have made a contract, but for the specific individual in a specific lifetime not to be aware of it (at least not in a conscious way)? Perhaps they feel they want to do good, but everything keeps going wrong?

*****************************

This can happen when the Soul itself is in denial that it made a contract in the first place.But the underlying psychology is still to desire to do harm? Yet they are in conflict within themselves about this? It is so HARD to accept the finality of a contract. The reasoning that JWG gives is because it would be too easy to sign up and then change one's mind and then sign up again, etc. But couldn't there be TRUE regret, TRUE contrition (or whatever)? Could a Soul who has made a contract go through lifetime after lifetime regretting this choice and trying to atone in some way, but just not able?

*****************************

One final thought: Perhaps a Soul who has made a contract will not feel frightened by "the dark side"?

*****************************

Generally true, and for many they will exhibit a true fascination with it.

***************************

One more question from the most recent post. The phrase "actual reality" is used a couple of times, as in the quote: "Yes, with the causative factor being Lucifer in the 6th, i.e., personal denial of their actual reality."

What is meant by "actual reality"? ie, that a contract with evil was made?

**************************

Actual reality versus a delusive construction considered to be 'reality' where that delusive construction is caused by denial of the actual reality at hand.

So just to be clear. ACTUAL REALITY is the reality that a contract with evil has been made. (If a contract has not been made, then perhaps actual reality could be said to be the reality of the influence of evil in one's life that one is not wanting to face....?)********************

Sorry for all my questions on this. This is a quote taken from Marc Jones' recent newsletter sent via email. It goes:

“ '…The culminating experience by which new capacities of awareness open to such persons to give new content and meaning to the activities of their lives, often looks deceptively like illness while it is still in its early stages. If it would be diagnosed and treated in the light of pathology at that point in its genesis, all the possibilities of development would be cut short before they had a chance to grow.' ”

A lot of my struggle with this topic comes from the question of how one determines what is truly the effect of evil influencing a person versus simply normal "descents into darkness" that occur in the course of one's development - as one sheds old ways, self-definitions, etc that no longer allow growth, yet are in limbo because the new form, the new answers have not yet arisen. Since these transitions are often viewed with alarm and I would say even condemnation often (because of the fear they evoke in others who may have a need to hang onto the old), how does one determine the difference? I guess this goes back to my original question of who decides. A person may be condemned as evil from the outside. And, so condemned, may believe they are in fact evil....... Is this making any sense? How does one come to know within oneself what is truth? (I am aware that I am very confused in this matter.......)

No. The progressive manifestation of 'perfection' within the ultimate consciousness we call God/ess would be itself projected through out the manifested Creation in all of it's forms to the point where that manifested Creation would no longer exit. At that point there in nothing but Consciousness without any form at all.

In response to Steven you wrote: "And, yes, generally speaking those who be tempted to make contract with Evil occurs somewhere within the Consensus State of evolution."

So do Souls who have made contracts with evil not evolve beyond Consensus? And if a Soul further along in development (individuated or spiritual) makes a contract, what happens? Do they de-volve?

**************

Once a contract has been made the Soul then continues to evolve relative to the consciousness of Evil itself: ever increasing capacities to do Evil's work. This is exactly the same for all Souls who have not made this contract with Evil who are progressively desiring to return Home to God/ess. The natural evolution back to God/Home allows a Soul to gain ever more capacities to know God, to do the work of God.

***********

Also, following up on what Steven wrote, I am struggling with the fact that it is the experience of feeling victimized and disempowered that leads to this. It seems to me that on the one hand, one must develop compassion for oneself if one is to heal, yet at the same time, doesn't compassion, by its very definition, take into account the "victimization" that has happened? (ie, needs not having been meant, traumas that one has experienced, etc.....). Just very confusing for me. Steven brought up Romney. Are we not to have compassion for him/his Soul?

*******************

You are mixing things up here Ellen. Having compassion for oneself or others is of course true. This has nothing to do with Soul's who make contracts with Evil for the reasons that they do. If you personally wish to have compassion towards these Souls then that is of course your right to do so.

***********************

Not sure I could follow up with you if your answer to this were yes, but are you by any chance available for consultations on this matter?

*********************

No .... sorry.

Thank you for sharing this information, Rad. This is an issue that has always terrified me. But I am starting to understand how important it is to understand it and be aware of it.

1) Since Souls who make contracts with evil do so with complete awareness, does one have to be evolved to a certain evolutionary stage to be able to do so?

*****************

From the consensus state onwards ......

This one is difficult for me. Doesn't seem like a Consensus has developed enough awareness to truly understand what they are choosing.....?

It may not seem that way to you but in fact there is enough awareness.

************************

2) Is it possible for a Soul to have made a contract, but for the specific individual in a specific lifetime not to be aware of it (at least not in a conscious way)? Perhaps they feel they want to do good, but everything keeps going wrong?

*****************************

This can happen when the Soul itself is in denial that it made a contract in the first place.But the underlying psychology is still to desire to do harm? Yet they are in conflict within themselves about this? It is so HARD to accept the finality of a contract. The reasoning that JWG gives is because it would be too easy to sign up and then change one's mind and then sign up again, etc. But couldn't there be TRUE regret, TRUE contrition (or whatever)? Could a Soul who has made a contract go through lifetime after lifetime regretting this choice and trying to atone in some way, but just not able?

Yes, there can be that regret. But once the contract has been made it has been made.

********************************

One final thought: Perhaps a Soul who has made a contract will not feel frightened by "the dark side"?

*****************************

Generally true, and for many they will exhibit a true fascination with it.

***************************

One more question from the most recent post. The phrase "actual reality" is used a couple of times, as in the quote: "Yes, with the causative factor being Lucifer in the 6th, i.e., personal denial of their actual reality."

What is meant by "actual reality"? ie, that a contract with evil was made?

**************************

Actual reality versus a delusive construction considered to be 'reality' where that delusive construction is caused by denial of the actual reality at hand.

So just to be clear. ACTUAL REALITY is the reality that a contract with evil has been made. (If a contract has not been made, then perhaps actual reality could be said to be the reality of the influence of evil in one's life that one is not wanting to face....?)********************

Yes, but it can also mean a person in denial of other dynamics within themselves as well.

No. The progressive manifestation of 'perfection' within the ultimate consciousness we call God/ess would be itself projected through out the manifested Creation in all of it's forms to the point where that manifested Creation would no longer exit. At that point there in nothing but Consciousness without any form at all.

(Q1‭) ‬You quoted in your post on the war in Iraq:‭ "‬We must remember that the very nature of Lucifer‭ '‬falling from grace‭' ‬was caused by his willful refusal to do what God/Goddess asked of him:‭ ‬to‭ '‬serve‭' ‬human beings on this planet.‭ ‬As a result of that refusal,‭ ‬the archangel Lucifer then was cast away from God/Goddess,‭ ‬and as a result of this,‭ ‬Lucifer decided thru his own will and volition to‭ '‬destroy‭' ‬the very humans that he blamed for his own downfall.‭ ‬In essence,‭ ‬Lucifer became a‭ '‬victim‭' ‬to God/Goddess.

Since the‭ '‬energy and consciousness of evil was set in motion simultaneously to the moment of the manifested creation itself,‭' ‬as you explained in your lecture on evil at Astro‭ ‬2000,‭ ‬then this of course predates anything written by men,‭ ‬i.e.,‭ ‬the Garden of Eden myth.‭ ‬At the time that myth was created,‭ ‬did humans have a conscious concept of Lucifer/evil‭?

If one needs an‭ '‬excuse‭' ‬for humanity's‭ '‬downfall‭'‬--needs to feel that we've been‭ '‬separated‭' ‬from God‭'‬--needs to place‭ '‬blame‭' ‬for the human condition,‭ ‬wouldn't this seem to be more of a‭ '‬reason/explanation‭' ‬than trying to explain it with the Garden of Eden myth‭? ‬Or,‭ ‬if evil/Lucifer was acknowledged and/or known then,‭ ‬since it was‭ '‬men‭' ‬who were writing what we now know as the books of the Bible and the myths and legends therein,‭ ‬is that why it was twisted into blaming‭ '‬woman‭?'

(A‭) ‬Yes,‭ ‬there was an awareness of‭ '‬evil‭' ‬before the Garden of Evil myth within humans,‭ ‬but in those natural times it was not conceived of as evil,‭ ‬just as what we now conceive of as God/Goddess was not a conception then.‭ ‬Yet the peoples of those times intuitively knew,‭ ‬felt,‭ ‬the two contradictory‭ '‬forces‭' ‬or energies that are now called God and evil.‭ ‬This is why for the balance of human history/herstory there were‭ '‬shamans‭' ‬in every tribe and place.‭ ‬The shaman's role was to understand the interplay of those forces and to do what was necessary because of them.‭ ‬The Garden of Eden myth is an embodiment of the awareness that preceded it,‭ ‬yet because this myth was formed when the patriarchy was already in place,‭ ‬these natural forces were then‭ '‬conceived‭' ‬of in this way,‭ ‬where the‭ '‬women‭' ‬became the scapegoat,‭ ‬or victim,‭ ‬of the inherent evil forces in our universe.

‭(Q2) I have a question in relation to “..of the inherent evil forces in our universe.” Because we live in a polarity-based environment, i.e., day/night, up/down, etc., if there is “evil in our universe, then there must be what? “Good?”

(A‭) ‬Yes.‭ ‬Good equals God.

‭(Q2) Must it always be that in order to know one aspect we have to know the opposite side? Is that one of the ways souls evolve? .

‭(A) Yes.

‭(Q2) Thank you for your replies to my postings. I so appreciate the time you take to respond. I understand the direction you're taking this and the explanation of evil, but I have to say that the word evil still does not sit well with me. Maybe it's the fire and brimstone of my Catholic upbringing that has caused this denial inside me: the need to deny that such an energy exists.

(A‭) ‬This could be,‭ ‬of course,‭ ‬but mainly,‭ ‬at least from my experience with many,‭ ‬many people in this life,‭ ‬it is a reflection of the human need to deny that evil can exist within themselves,‭ ‬and thru extension anyone else.

‭(Q2) There is a strong need inside me to believe that everyone is good and that nobody is really bad to the core of their soul,‭ ‬that whatever someone does will come back to them at some point,‭ ‬so I can let go of any judgments towards those that other people might label as evil.‭

(A‭) ‬Well,‭ ‬we can‭ '‬believe‭' ‬anything we wish,‭ ‬but the belief itself does not mean that what one is believing is intrinsically true.‭ ‬Some people still believe that the earth is flat for example,‭ ‬or that Bush actually has done nothing wrong,‭ ‬just a function of the media,‭ ‬and so on.

‭(Q2) If it's natural law that whatever you put out will come back to you, then can one conclude that evil will in the end destroy itself?

(A‭) ‬Evil will only cease to exist when all souls everywhere manifest one desire only,‭ ‬and that desire is to return and reunite consciously with that which has created us‭ ‬-‭ ‬GOD/GODDESS.‭ ‬In other words,‭ ‬the existence of evil is dependent upon souls maintaining separating desires.

‭(Q2) If it does, will the Divine Source/Goddess cease to exist also?

(A‭) ‬Of course not.‭ ‬How could that be‭?

(Q3‭) ‬Just now I am noticing the asteroid Lucifer going back and forth about the middle of Pisces--18‭ ‬degrees.‭ ‬I wonder with all the other activity in Pisces if this has a special meaning about people making a conscious choice about God/Goddess in the face of adversity.

‭(A) Yes, this is quite so, especially since collective conditions on earth will continue to be severely influenced by evil, which can progressively degenerate into individual attitudes of futility, self-defeat, what's the point, and so on: personal powerlessness in the face of collective events. So the need to commit to God, and God only, is absolutely paramount in these times.

Terminology of Lucifer/Evil

(Q‭) ‬I'm hoping you'll shed some light on a few things for me.‭ ‬Every time I read the words‭ "‬evil‭" ‬and‭ "‬Lucifer‭" ‬or‭ "‬Satan,‭" ‬it trips me up,‭ ‬and I have a difficult time placing the word(s‭) ‬in the context of what it means.‭ ‬This could be my strong Catholic upbringing that I'm continuing to rebel against this,‭ ‬or it may be memories of the patriarchal religions.‭ ‬I don't know why I have such a strong reaction to these words.‭ ‬Perhaps if I understood them in the context that they are meant to be understood,‭ ‬they'll no longer be stumbling blocks for me.

‭(A) Believe me, most people have a problem with these words. The context in which to understand these words/archetypes is to understand the two primary forces that determine evolution in any time/space universe and the circumstances that are created thru such interactive evolution, both collectively and individually. The influence of evil can manifest thru any of our separating desires, and, specifically, thru our emotional bodies relative to where we are most emotionally weak or vulnerable. God/Goddess manifests thru the single desire to reunite our consciousness with God/Goddess itself.

‭(Q) In the book the Pleadian Agenda, Lucifer is referred to as an energy (soul if you will) that had gotten trapped on Earth when the planets shifted and closed the only passage off of Earth.

(A‭) ‬This is not so.

‭(Q) [I'm paraphrasing, so it's not word for word.] He (Lucifer) also states that through the struggle of power on Earth using religion that he has been described in the worst possible way.

‭(Q) Now maybe this book is all crap, but I haven't found any other answers to describe Satan/Lucifer/Evil. I'd like to move past these stumbling blocks I have on these words and apply them in the context that Evolutionary Astrology intends them to be. Are you saying that any desire other than the desire to return to the Divine Source/Creator would manifest as "evil?"

(A‭) ‬Of course not.‭ ‬What I am saying is that it is thru the very nature of separating that evil can manifest thru those separating desires.

‭(Q) Then could one say there are degrees of evil? Or, is it all the same?

(A‭) ‬There are degrees of influence.

‭(Q) Why does it seem that some of the most notorious crimes or acts of evil recorded in history have been committed by men? Unless you can list crimes/evil that have been carried out by women.

(A‭) ‬It is because of the very nature of the patriarchy.‭ ‬We must remember that as the patriarchy took over,‭ ‬it shifted consciousness from natural laws to artificial laws created by men,‭ ‬i.e.,‭ ‬the Garden of Eden myth,‭ ‬which shifted from the natural consciousness which was defined by the natural laws or principles of giving,‭ ‬sharing,‭ ‬and inclusion to self-interest and exclusion.‭ ‬Women have obviously also had to live in patriarchal times,‭ ‬and as a result,‭ ‬their own natural natures‭ ‬-‭ ‬Lilith‭ ‬-‭ ‬have become progressively distorted because of that artificial conditioning.‭ ‬As a result,‭ ‬there have been many evil acts also created by women.

(Q‭) ‬I currently have transiting Saturn conjuncting my natal Lucifer and was wondering about all the things that may be occurring in relation to this transit.‭ ‬Even though I have other heavy transits in my chart,‭ ‬I realize that transits over Lucifer,‭ ‬especially long-lasting ones,‭ ‬would probably ignite all kinds of events related to evil in relation to the planet in transit.‭

For example,‭ ‬I first had a sudden illness‭ (‬some kind of mysterious flu that I thought would quickly go away and yet proved to be persistent and long lasting:‭ ‬a Saturn effect again.‭ ‬Simultaneous to this,‭ ‬I gradually stopped doing all kinds of things I was doing,‭ ‬and felt like I was totally unable to continue on with almost anything.‭ ‬It was as if I had no power at all.‭ ‬I knew I had some,‭ ‬yet I found myself almost compulsively just doing nothing.‭ ‬It was as if I was in some kind of invisible chain and felt emotionally drained for no apparent reason,‭ ‬etc.‭ ‬Then it occurred to me that this is a bit strange,‭ ‬and I wondered what the heck could be going on.‭ ‬The flu doesn't really explain that.‭ ‬Finally,‭ ‬I noticed the‭ "‬happy‭” ‬news:‭ ‬transiting Saturn was sitting right on my natal Lucifer.

So,‭ ‬what is your view on planets transiting Lucifer,‭ ‬and how do the archetypes play out/synthesize during these transits.‭ ‬What's the best approach to deal with it once we notice it‭?‬.‭

Saturn transiting your natal Lucifer in Cancer will correlate to an emotional state of almost absolute self-defeat associated with an almost absolute emotional state of exhaustion and weariness.‭ ‬This leads to the attitude of‭ '‬what's the point in doing anything,‭' ‬and thus doing nothing.‭ ‬Within this,‭ ‬a state of emotional paralysis exists:‭ ‬an emotional state of total inner compression that weakens the immune system,‭ ‬because Cancer naturally links thru triad to Pisces.‭ ‬This obviously can manifest in the stomach:‭ ‬Cancer.‭

When the influence of evil is manifesting,‭ ‬the solution is always thru the psychological attitude,‭ ‬and the soul's desire,‭ ‬of absolute self-determination and persistence in doing what you know you need and want to do no matter what,‭ ‬and,‭ ‬of course,‭ ‬being ever more determined to stay focused on God/Goddess no matter what.

Lucifer conjunct Mercury

(Q‭) ‬I have a question about Lucifer conjunct Mercury in early Virgo in the‭ ‬8th house,‭ ‬square a Jupiter-Neptune conjunction in Sagittarius in the‭ ‬12th,‭ ‬square Saturn in Gemini in the‭ ‬6th and Pluto at the end of Virgo in the‭ ‬9th.‭ ‬How do I interpret it in relation to past lives‭? ‬Is it linked to Christianity,‭ ‬or could it be any other religious belief system‭? (‬Sorry,‭ ‬I am quite the novice in interpreting this complex picture.‭)‬.‭

(A‭) ‬It all depends on the individual nature of the soul,‭ ‬and its evolutionary condition.‭ ‬Thus,‭ ‬I cannot give a specific answer concerning the person you are asking about.‭ ‬Archetypically,‭ ‬this pattern could mean being a compulsive liar,‭ ‬which is caused by the influence of evil in order for the person to avoid accepting the responsibility for his or her own actions and blaming others as a result of that.‭ ‬It could mean,‭ ‬thru the influence of evil,‭ ‬that the person would convince himself that his world view,‭ ‬religion or philosophy,‭ ‬is the only‭ '‬right‭' ‬way of looking at life and attacking others with very critical or abusive comments if the other(s‭) ‬do not agree with the world view or religion that they are defined by,‭ ‬and,‭ ‬therefore,‭ ‬try to convince and convert others.‭ ‬It could mean,‭ ‬thru the influence of evil,‭ ‬that the individual attempts to get between other people in order to feel powerful within themselves,‭ ‬dividing people relative to their own ulterior motives to the point of making up lies about others.

‭(Q) I understand your answer, but isn't there a positive side of this aspect?

(A‭) ‬Yes,‭ ‬but you asked specifically about how the potential influence of evil could assert itself.‭ ‬Thus my answer.

‭(Q) Could the positive side be that the person is aware of the evilness of words and actually fears that the others are trying to convert her to another belief system that is limited or to convert her to believe that she is wrong in what she is saying, because of the struggle with the human language, relative to the square of Neptune in Sagittarius and Saturn in Gemini?

(A‭) ‬Yes,‭ ‬but then ask yourself just why her soul created these experiences/circumstances in the first place.‭ ‬You will then see in my first answer the very causes of these current circumstances,‭ ‬i.e.,‭ ‬caused by her own karma.‭

(Q‭) ‬This person is very silent and observes a lot and actually finds it difficult to express herself.‭ ‬And I was wondering if maybe it could be something in past lives that relates to a secret‭ (‬8th house‭) ‬that this person held in a context of a religious party where there was a fight between God and evil.‭

(A‭) ‬Yes,‭ ‬and again,‭ ‬this refers to my first answer.‭ ‬The silent effect is a reaction to her own inner doubt about her own ideas,‭ ‬her own philosophy,‭ ‬and thus the silence.‭ ‬This is an evolutionary development related to other lives that preceded this effect.‭ ‬Again,‭ ‬refer to the first answer.

Evil‭ & ‬Evolution

(A‭) ‬How does evil evolve‭? ‬Or,‭ ‬does it‭?

(A‭) ‬Yes.‭ ‬The consciousness of evil evolves,‭ ‬and like any consciousness that has a soul,‭ ‬it evolves thru desire.

‭(Q) Would it be possible for an evil soul to reach a form of higher spiritual evolution?

(A‭) ‬Spiritual evolution means to know God.‭ ‬A soul that has made a contract also evolves but not towards God,‭ ‬towards Evil itself.‭ ‬Souls that have made contracts with evil evolve not towards God but evolve by obtaining ever increasing‭ ‘‬powers’ given to them by the origin of evil itself:‭ ‬Lucifer.‭ ‬Such souls then,‭ ‬because of the contract,‭ ‬must try to‭ ‘‬capture’ other souls for Lucifer’s purposes,‭ ‬with the primary vehicle being one of‭ ‘‬temptation‭’ ‬or seduction of other souls‭; ‬purposeful deception is part of that.‭ ‬Souls that are being influenced by evil do not evolve towards God because the emphasis in such souls is relative to their separating desires,‭ ‬which is the intention of evil in the first place‭ ‬-‭ ‬to keep souls lost to their own separating desires.‭

(Q‭) ‬If this is possible,‭ ‬could their approximate state of evolution be determined by how advanced their ability is to deceive‭?

Sorry for all my questions on this. This is a quote taken from Marc Jones' recent newsletter sent via email. It goes:

“ '…The culminating experience by which new capacities of awareness open to such persons to give new content and meaning to the activities of their lives, often looks deceptively like illness while it is still in its early stages. If it would be diagnosed and treated in the light of pathology at that point in its genesis, all the possibilities of development would be cut short before they had a chance to grow.' ”

A lot of my struggle with this topic comes from the question of how one determines what is truly the effect of evil influencing a person versus simply normal "descents into darkness" that occur in the course of one's development - as one sheds old ways, self-definitions, etc that no longer allow growth, yet are in limbo because the new form, the new answers have not yet arisen. Since these transitions are often viewed with alarm and I would say even condemnation often (because of the fear they evoke in others who may have a need to hang onto the old), how does one determine the difference? I guess this goes back to my original question of who decides. A person may be condemned as evil from the outside. And, so condemned, may believe they are in fact evil....... Is this making any sense? How does one come to know within oneself what is truth? (I am aware that I am very confused in this matter.......)

Thank you.

Peace, Elen

Hi Ellen,

This is why I decided to post this transcript from JWG: to help anyone know when in fact one is being influenced by Evil.

I just wanted to share something that may help you Ellen (and anyone else); and Rad please correct any information that appears incorrect, or delete this post if necessary. Just sharing this information in a public space makes me feel extremely uncomfortable and I actually feel nauseous as I am thinking and writing it. Basically I was involved (as a friend and student) with someone for a while that I believe either made a contract or is strongly possessed, by evil. I went through a lot of confusion over this man's evolutionary state because he works as a spiritual teacher (still) and I simply could not get my head or heart around how someone so evolved could allow themselves to use other people for their own gain, as this man clearly is. At this point I feel quite certain that he is in the spiritual 2nd stage of evolution. I feel this may be a typical place for this to happen since souls often experience a humiliating downfall in this stage, and therefore may make a contract with evil in order to retain power. I had an akashic record reading about this man in which I was told that he had basically bought into someone else's power, and had been doing this for the last 3 lifetimes. I was told that he is very advanced in "trickery," so as Rad pointed out, he has become more evolved in evil. It appears to me that he has even seduced souls in late individuated/early spiritual stages of evolution. It took me a long, long, time to process this, it was a total shock to my soul. I was also told that he would feed off the light of others in order to maintain his power. I definitely felt him doing this to me, and the more I tried to confront him, the more he recoiled and started projecting back to me, in a very angry and judgmental way. His trick is to "hook" people, especially women, into believing he is a very advanced soul, and uses his "cuteness" as a way of mimicking some kind of innocence. His behavior (at least when I knew him) was extremely arrogant, it was as if he simply believed, needed, and enjoyed the fact that most of his students were treating him as "God-like" and special. When I would confront him it became obvious that he felt that he could do whatever he wanted, that the normal rules didn't apply to him. He actually told me once that we needed to learn to become dependent on each other, which was a huge red light! I was actually shocked to progressively discover just how "empty" he was inside. Along with this reading, another experience that has lead me to believe this man may have made a contract with evil is: When I was closely involved with him, I woke up in bed one morning startled because I felt something crawling over my chest. As I woke up I saw a huge black spider, the size of a man's hand and fingers crawling over my heart area. As I saw it, it jumped off my chest and I noticed that it was connected to a thick rope that seemed to be coming from the ceiling. I literally jumped out of bed and ran from the room since this thing was so huge. But I realized immediately that it was energetic, it had the consistency of thick, black, smoke. The lady that gave me the reading about him said that this is how these souls hook people, they get them in the heart area. So it is no surprise that this man is followed around by women students that are secretly "in love" with him. He appeared to feel that it was perfectly ok to trick people this way, and he obviously needs their light in order to increase his power source. I also had constant nightmares of being chased by a dangerous and aggressive energy, it would catch up with me and try to smother me, or abuse me in some other way. One time I even heard laughter as I woke up. All of this bothered me so much I can't tell you. I wanted to scream from the rooftops about this to warn people but didn't because I just knew that people were so under his spell that they wouldn't believe me. It was a hard struggle for me but I felt the best thing I could do was to just protect myself and keep a firm distance. I never really saw "cats eyes" but I have seen youtube videos of him and notice how he is always diverting his gaze, and rolling his eyes; he appears to be kind of "squirming." The brief moments that I watch are enough before I have to turn it off feeling extremely uncomfortable and nauseous. If I hadn't had this experience I would not be able to understand this stuff, and quite frankly I still find myself doubting it and thinking it's just a spiritual 2nd delusional thing.

Thank you so much for sharing your experience with this. This topic has truly terrified me and frankly I can't even tell what I've been trying to get at with all my questions. I am beginning to wonder if I've been trying to keep it all out in some way - trying to find an escape hatch that allows me to not have to deal with the reality of it. If we're all just HUMAN, after all......... But I think I'm starting to get it. People have free choice and that means they can choose good or evil. So I get the need to understand this. And I get the need to be firm in saying "No" to it in whatever way it manifests in one's life (within or without). Definitely one of the things that has been tripping me up is the difference between the basic trials and tribulations of human development vs a commitment to harm. I think I understand the difference now, so thank you so much.