No, he's not putting you on. My brother was big into Joes when we were kids. Better than 30% of them had broken thumbs, crotches, and o-rings at that time because he was a kid playing with toys like a kids does. It ain't hard to find pics of this type of carnage either.. The few Joes I had never ended up like that because I didn't play with them that hard. But I remember my brother's couldn't even stand up straight over time because their hip assemblies got all wonky loose or outright broken because they were booty, too.

The reason modern Joes feel rubbery is because they are. Toy plastics have been nerfed over time. Parts need to separate or bend instead of breaking. So when you complain about modern stuff not being of the same quality it is because their production process is held to completely different design standards.

Again, mixing metaphors about vintage and contemporary toys makes about as much sense as comparing a modern fuel-injected, electronically controlled combustion engine to a carbureted one from 30 years ago. They both operate on similar basic principles, but the means they use to achieve their ends as well as the ends themselves are radically different.

Sanjeev Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Throw out economy for a moment and look purely at
> what you have in your hands...
>
> But it's good that you bring up the licensing
> issue. That's totally true, and I forgot to
> consider that before. Obviously, that makes a huge
> difference. Still, if I'm paying over $30 for a
> fucking action figure (which, in and of itself, is
> absurd), then I better be getting fuck-damn
> pristine quality right out of the package...
>
> Now, you could say that the intent of the two toy
> lines are different. Revoltechs are the "adult
> collector's" idea of an action figure. They're
> meant to be taken off the shelf, posed
> differently, and put back carefully. GI Joe's were
> meant to be played with by kids...
>
> So...maybe my comparison's not really fair...but
> at the end of the day, 1) they're both "action
> figures" to me; 2) I'm not a big fan of "action
> figures"; and 3) as far as "action figures" go,
> Revoltechs are far less fun and way more expensive
> than other existing lines of "action figures".

See, this is still apples to oranges. If you compare all existing action figures against one another you can't really assess the relative value of what you've got. Yesterdays dollar, aesthetics, regulations, production technology, and consumer market are incompatible. And that would be true even if you were in the same country!

You should look at what Revoltechs are competing with now in Japan and how they stack up. Revoltech's mass-market peers are Figma, Figuarts, and Robot Spirits. What they all have in common right now is the +$20 action figure game. In all cases Revoltechs beat the competition on cost and deco. There's no way around that.

So saying, "This $30 Daimajin action figure is too expensive for what it is," is not the same as saying, "I don't like the $30 action figure game in Japan."

Seewhatimsayin?

Now, back to durability for a minute - with the exception of their sometimes small or fragile accessories, Revoltechs are indestructible. You can't break them because they're meant to come apart. Which ties into part of their appeal, too. Part of the fun of Revoltechs is their ability to be mashed-up together into crazy combos. Pop the arms (or tits) off of one and slap them on another. You can't do that on vintage GI Joes without a screwdriver! Hell, the Assemble Borg line is like Glyos on steroids with equal amounts of Microman and Nightmare Chainsaw Tapeworms thrown in for good measure. That's pure play time awesome there, son!

But the last toy line like that, Xevoz, was rolled out by toy giant Hasbro and still died an extended death at retail despite being cheap, high quality, well sculpted, and having an awesome play pattern.

Fuck, even Legos are whoring their asses out for licensed properties these days. It ain't because Harry Potter Legos are somehow "better" than an unlicensed line of Wizard Legos. It's because licenses bring in money. We just can't compare today's market to the one in which we grew up. You gotta judge Revoltechs on their own merits against the sea of their peers. And by those standards they're pretty damn good.

Gcrush Wrote:
>
> Hell, the Assemble Borg
> line is like Glyos on steroids with equal amounts
> of Microman and Nightmare Chainsaw Tapeworms
> thrown in for good measure. That's pure play time
> awesome there, son!

I just wish they weren't all at least two to three times as expensive as the last few Microman series :(
I get that it would probably be hard to put them out there cheaper, but it just makes it harder to amass a substantial set to build with, and that's kept me from jumping into the line like I did with the superposable Micromen.

> But the last toy line like that, Xevoz, was rolled
> out by toy giant Hasbro and still died an extended
> death at retail despite being cheap, high quality,
> well sculpted, and having an awesome play
> pattern.

I own literally like ten pounds of Xevox all in a big plastic tub. It's awesome.

On the topic of 80's Joes, we're gonna have to agree to disagree. I mean, I agree with your point that it probably doesn't make sense to compare them with today's Revoltechs. I smell ya on that. But I still hold out that y'all musta been doing some ill shit with them things to be busting them up like that back then! Oh, I *will* concede that I had one dude with broken dick. That sucked.

But then here's a question: is it valid to compare a Revoltech with a modern GI Joe or Star Wars figure? I mean, when you stack a Revoltech up against a Figma, Figuarts, or Robot Spirits, I guess I'ma choose the Revoltech. Mostly because I have no idea what those others are. Isn't Figma a bunch of moe figures anyway? Well...whatever. I know some line is doing a Denan Zon from Gundam F91. I'ma get that shit. But other than that, the only thing attracting me to Revoltechs is the character selection...certainly NOT their physical quality or relative value.

So if I go out and find a decent GI Joe (modern) and compare that to Daimajin, is that kosher? Might have to take up that challenge...

Anyway, I hear you about the "undocumented" titty-transplantation gimmick with Revoltechs. I've never been driven to explore that shit, though...and I'm guessing not a ton of other Revoltech collectors have either. I do take exception with your statement that Revoltechs are "indestructible". I certainly don't consider any toy that you take out of the box with one or two bum joints "indestructible".

And like Paul, I never got into the Assemble Borgs because of the availability of the more recent Microman series. Never got a chance to get into Xevos, though...I remember being interested, but never overcame the inertia to pick any up...

asterphage Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I just wish they weren't all at least two to three
> times as expensive as the last few Microman series
> :(
> I get that it would probably be hard to put them
> out there cheaper, but it just makes it harder to
> amass a substantial set to build with, and that's
> kept me from jumping into the line like I did with
> the superposable Micromen.

I don't know how the line has done in Japan, but nobody over here seems to be into them. And you're right - it's probably because of the price point. I have no idea how Kaiyodo can get licensed items out for so much less than their own property unless it is a production constraint (like, higher-volume discounting). A damn shame, too.

> I own literally like ten pounds of Xevox all in a
> big plastic tub. It's awesome.

You, sir, are both a scholar and a gentleman. Xevoz was the king of all toy lines and I'm pissed I sold all of mine off. I mourn this decision regularly.

Sanjeev Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> On the topic of 80's Joes, we're gonna have to
> agree to disagree. I mean, I agree with your point
> that it probably doesn't make sense to compare
> them with today's Revoltechs. I smell ya on that.
> But I still hold out that y'all musta been doing
> some ill shit with them things to be busting them
> up like that back then! Oh, I *will* concede that
> I had one dude with broken dick. That sucked.

Man, it's all true. Check Evilbay for broke ass Joes and you'll see that if a figure is not in that list because it has a broken thumbdick it is in the list because the seller is using unbroken thumbdick as a grading criteria. Ignoring the number of busted thumbdicks in that pile, the fact that people are going out of their way to tell you a toy's thumbdick is not broken should tell you it was a common enough problem. It's like the infamous yellowing Star Wars figures. None of mine did it, but tons of other people's did.

As for why they dickthumbs are frequently broke - you pointed it out yourself. You couldn't get a Joe to hold a gun straight because of the angle of the thumbdick unless you wedged the rifle butt under its armpit. The straightening of the guns stressed the plastic. Same with putting their hands on steering wheels and the like. The worst offenders for broken thumbdicks were the first generation of Joes without "swivel arm battle grip" because you couldn't even rotate their arms to get the rifle steady. A few afternoons trying to straighten up your Cobra infantry and you'd have thumbdicks strewn across your carpet like the aftermath of a leper wedding.

> But then here's a question: is it valid to compare
> a Revoltech with a modern GI Joe or Star Wars
> figure?

Naw. Different markets - the price points and target consumers aren't the same. I think the closest comparison here would NECA's prodcuts.

> I mean, when you stack a Revoltech up
> against a Figma, Figuarts, or Robot Spirits, I
> guess I'ma choose the Revoltech.

Good choice!

> Mostly because I
> have no idea what those others are. Isn't Figma a
> bunch of moe figures anyway?

And Billy. Don't forget Billy.

> Well...whatever. I
> know some line is doing a Denan Zon from Gundam
> F91. I'ma get that shit.

That would be Bandai's Robot Spirits. An area where I think Bandai actually outdoes Kaiyodo is mechs. But, Bandai's are usually 25-50% more expensive.

> Anyway, I hear you about the "undocumented"
> titty-transplantation gimmick with Revoltechs.
> I've never been driven to explore that shit,
> though...and I'm guessing not a ton of other
> Revoltech collectors have either. I do take
> exception with your statement that Revoltechs are
> "indestructible". I certainly don't consider any
> toy that you take out of the box with one or two
> bum joints "indestructible".

I've had smaller joints that are loose out of the box on Revoltechs, but never broken ones and never on larger joints. But that was a design flaw in the joint that they've (mostly) addressed by using a different joint design in newer releases. Seriously though, you can't break a Revoltech's body. Try pulling apart the average Robot Spirit or Figuarts toy and you'll never be able to put it back together.

> And like Paul, I never got into the Assemble Borgs
> because of the availability of the more recent
> Microman series. Never got a chance to get into
> Xevos, though...I remember being interested, but
> never overcame the inertia to pick any up...

That's a shame, especially about Xevoz. That shit was king. If I still had some around I would send them to you just to prove it. Their entry-level skeleton warrior figure was one of the best action-figure/toys in the history of the world.

> That's a shame, especially about Zardoz. That shit
> was king. If I still had some around I would send
> them to you just to prove it. Their entry-level
> skeleton warrior figure was one of the best
> action-figure/toys in the history of the world.

Gcrush Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> ...The worst
> offenders for broken thumbdicks were the first
> generation of Joes without "swivel arm battle
> grip" because you couldn't even rotate their arms
> to get the rifle steady.

Maybe that was the key. I had, maybe, two GI Joe guys from the earlier series. There were about half a dozen kids around my age on my block...and we all had totally different toys and we'd all play together all the time. I'd usually pit my TFs, Sectaurs, Starriors, and Centurions against their GI Joe figures/vehicles, Voltron toys, Star Wars stuff, M.A.S.K., etc. But all the Joes we played with had the bicep swivel and ball-jointed neck. All the articulation we needed! And I think the weapons were a little softer, too, by that time. I definitely remember seen frayed scratches on gun handles.

> ...you'd
> have thumbdicks strewn across your carpet like the
> aftermath of a leper wedding.

Doncha mean the aftermath of a leper honeymoon!? YOWZA!!

> > But then here's a question: is it valid to
> compare
> > a Revoltech with a modern GI Joe or Star Wars
> > figure?
>
> Naw. Different markets - the price points and
> target consumers aren't the same. I think the
> closest comparison here would NECA's prodcuts.

Gotcha.

fujikuro Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Hell yeah, a Zardoz toy line would be king!

Gcrush Wrote:
>
> Sanjeev Wrote:
> > On the topic of 80's Joes, we're gonna have to
> > agree to disagree. I mean, I agree with your point
> > that it probably doesn't make sense to compare
> > them with today's Revoltechs. I smell ya on that.
> > But I still hold out that y'all musta been doing
> > some ill shit with them things to be busting them
> > up like that back then! Oh, I *will* concede that
> > I had one dude with broken dick. That sucked.
>
> Man, it's all true. Check Evilbay for broke ass
> Joes and you'll see that if a figure is not in
> that list because it has a broken thumbdick it is
> in the list because the seller is using unbroken
> thumbdick as a grading criteria. Ignoring the
> number of busted thumbdicks in that pile, the fact
> that people are going out of their way to tell you
> a toy's thumbdick is not broken should tell you it
> was a common enough problem.

Uh, G, when he says "a broken dick", I'm pretty sure he means the front section of the pelvis. Which is something that definitely broke on small Joes, but in my experience was never as big an issue as the thumbs.

But now you've confused the issue with "thumbdicks".
Sigh.

> > But then here's a question: is it valid to compare
> > a Revoltech with a modern GI Joe or Star Wars
> > figure?
>
> Naw. Different markets - the price points and
> target consumers aren't the same. I think the
> closest comparison here would NECA's prodcuts.

How about a McFarlane Halo figure?
Same size, close price point, same future-techy subject matter... same complexity, same high level of articulation, same messy paint jobs, same propensity to break in weird places (usually wherever there's small detailed parts, of course).
Shit, that didn't prove anything!

Some have written they get Revoltech figures with bad joints, loose joints, overly stiff joint...

Has anyone gone ahead and bought a bunch of the spare joints they sell? It's clearly of limited use as I've only seen them in black and flesh, but heck, replacing some of the problem joints with double-bend joints might be fun.

Of course, won't so squat for the non-revolver joints but it's something.

and yes, I agree in advance, pretty shitty to have to spend another $20 or so to buy up spare joints just in case you need to replace one, but at least the option is there, right?

The revolver joint is ABS, correct? so need some Mr. Surfacer 1000 to prep them for painting.

asterphage Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Uh, G, when he says "a broken dick", I'm pretty
> sure he means the front section of the pelvis.
> Which is something that definitely broke on small
> Joes, but in my experience was never as big an
> issue as the thumbs.

I'd say that a broken dick is a bigger issue than a broken thumb...

> But now you've confused the issue with
> "thumbdicks".

Naw, I caught what he was saying. Some of my brother's Joes had busted crotch pieces. I just thought thumbdicks made for some awesome shorthand.

> How about a McFarlane Halo figure?
> Same size, close price point, same future-techy
> subject matter... same complexity, same high level
> of articulation, same messy paint jobs, same
> propensity to break in weird places (usually
> wherever there's small detailed parts, of
> course).
> Shit, that didn't prove anything!

I forgot about those. Good point. I think if each Halo figure was 100% new tooling (instead of all the re-use) and had more accessories their price point would definitely be the same as Revoltechs.

SteveH Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Has anyone gone ahead and bought a bunch of the
> spare joints they sell? It's clearly of limited
> use as I've only seen them in black and flesh, but
> heck, replacing some of the problem joints with
> double-bend joints might be fun.

I have some spare joints, but honestly the larger ones have never been loose on me. It's only the smallish ones that get wonky. But, again, new releases have done a good job of addressing that with new joint design.

> The revolver joint is ABS, correct? so need some
> Mr. Surfacer 1000 to prep them for painting.

You know, Kaiyodo does a really good job of matching their joints to the colors around them. I want a huge panetone library of Revoltech joints in all sizes. That would be glorious.

I came by at the end of the day, and they had like, twenty packs of flesh-tone joints that nobody wanted, so I took a bunch of them :3
I wish I'd gotten some sweet-ass pliers and orange joints, though.

Gcrush Wrote:
>
> You know, Kaiyodo does a really good job of
> matching their joints to the colors around them.

They do! It's insane. Even down to the matte, sort of "fuzzy" - they almost look micro-flocked - joints on some of the Patlabor Revoltechs. How do they do it? Some kind of rubber coating?

Paul, that picture is so utterly perfect. I really cannot put into words how hard I laughed at that. I would write something about blasting milk out of nose from laughing so hard, but that wouldn't capture the feeling. It was more like I laughed so hard the missing kid whose picture is on the milk carton of beer I was drinking shot out of my nose along with the corn flakes I had poured into the beer and he exploded into one thousand TRON-styled digitized LOL cats when he hit the floor. Except that the kid on the carton looked like Woody had turned into a (more) sexually deviant Golem and it wasn't beer it was TBDX and I wasn't drinking it I was looking at it and there were no LOL cats, just Revoltech joints.

Dood, who gives a fuck about the interchans? I lurk in dressing rooms, not message boards.

> I have these pics.
> NSFW? I don't what does and doesn't bother you
> guys anymore so you've been warned.

Well, the first pic doesn't even have Woody in it. And the second one makes no sense. It just looks like four randomly cut together images, none of which are comprehensible on their own, let alone together. WeaksauceXorz.

Gcrush Wrote:
>
> Well, the first pic doesn't even have Woody in it.
> And the second one makes no sense. It just looks
> like four randomly cut together images, none of
> which are comprehensible on their own, let alone
> together. WeaksauceXorz.

The idea is that Woody is just bein' himself, and the Zoid is drinking his tea, totally disinterested. Then Woody jumps on a girl Revoltech, and the Zoid either spits his tea everywhere or develops a sudden, explosive nosebleed. Both make sense to me, but the images aren't that well composed.

Hmm, it looks like Maeda Toshimasu has been removed from the ranking. #15 is now a three-way tie between Virgil (Devil May Cry, I assume), Aika Misaki from Kia Asamiya's "My Favorite Carrera" and Chojin Locke. Let's see what else is on the list...

asterphage Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Gcrush Wrote:
> >
> > Well, the first pic doesn't even have Woody in
> it.
> > And the second one makes no sense. It just
> looks
> > like four randomly cut together images, none of
> > which are comprehensible on their own, let
> alone
> > together. WeaksauceXorz.
>
> The idea is that Woody is just bein' himself, and
> the Zoid is drinking his tea, totally
> disinterested. Then Woody jumps on a girl
> Revoltech, and the Zoid either spits his tea
> everywhere or develops a sudden, explosive
> nosebleed. Both make sense to me, but the images
> aren't that well composed.

I often wonder what the fuck we'd do without you, Paul. You're, like, the tour guide to the tragedy that IS...Vincent Z.

SteveH Wrote:
> That list of 'most wanted' chara proves to me why
> no company should trust or listen to 'the
> internet' when it comes to doing things.

Hey, only about HALF of that list is incredibly terrible ideas!

Heroman, Dai-Guard, Kazuma from Scryed, and Canti are naturals for Revoltech... Amaterasu and Jehuty would be great, somewhat unexpected choices, and they'd turn out BEAUTIFUL... any Rockman would be great, but I'd really like to see Rockman.EXE... and how can you argue with PUTIN?

And yeah, honestly, I wouldn't be surprised at all if Gunhed showed up in the "Sci-Fi Revoltech" line, though it might be as complex and expensive as the Revoltech Zoids.