Way too much discussion about how we "trust Mayhew". That's bunk! I like what he's done to date getting the team from 0-16 to 10-6 but that doesn't mean he hasn't made any mistakes along the way (he has - he's human - he's allowed). Offering up blind trust is unwarranted IMO. He's not yet earned the right to expect our trust regardless of his choices.

This pick was a mistake. Period! There was much better talent available (forget the ACL issue) and at positions of far greater need. Passing on any choice of Peter Konz, Vinny Curry, LaMichael James, Trumaine Johnson, (only to settle for Dwight Bentley in the 3rd) was completely moronic. The 2nd and 3rd rounds combined make the poorest combination of decisions Mayhew has made to date. (Even worse than the decision to draft Javid Best.)

The ONLY way to polish this mess up is if Mayhew pulls off some kind of trade(s) (such as Peterman for Dallas' Jenkins mentioned in another thread) that somehow improve the various positions in question. As of now, our offense is not improved with the acquisition of a disabled WR, and, our porous defensive secondary has another rookie 5' 10" CB. That's no big deal! We've seen dozens of them come and go over the years and it's still the weakest position on the team.

I'm very disappointed with day 2 of the draft.

I totally understand where you are coming from but this pick isnt the doom you are making it out to be. True that Peter Konz was available but Raiola does not truly need a replacement yet and it seems the front office is happy with him no matter what our opinions on Dom are. Shifting Konz to guard is a reasonable idea until Dom is gone but with the drafting of Reiff, Cherilus/Backus maybe even Hilliard or Fox might slide inside and help out at that position. Finally decent guards become available in Free Agency pretty frequently relative to other positions and can be developed late in the draft or even undrafted ie see GB Packer OL case in point Evan Dietrich-Smith. Lamichael James reminds me of Best but with a more slight frame - there is no question the Lions were interested but some good runners are still on the board and the Lions probably have some idea of what there plan is for Best and are not ready to give up on him just yet. Doesnt mean they shouldnt take a runner but taking a Best clone when you still have Best probably didnt sit well with Mayhew/Schwartz. Vinny Curry could be a good player, I wont argue with you there but to say he fills a need is false - the Lions are stacked on the DL more than any other position and to me Trumaine Johnson looks like a player that isnt a lock to stay as a corner and really plays more like a safety, not to mention he was playing low level competition. Bentley, our 3rd pick, looks quicker and more fluid than Johnson and I think he will be a better corner early on. Remember Mayhew was a corner so he should have a keen eye on finding a player that fits our system. He missed on Spievey but he did land Houston via trade, Wright through FA and Aaron Berry undrafted. Bentley to me looks like a player that can cover slot WRs with his quickness and essentially fills the role of Eric Wright in 3 WR packages. The pressure is on Aaron Berry to increase his role but he showed that he can play last season.

Now back to Broyles, he is just 5 months out after surgery is running sub 4.6 which is outstanding. 4 months is the time at which the new ligament is felt to be stable and able to tolerate full speed running so he is likely just getting aggressive in his rehab for about a month or so. With 3 months to go before training camp he is making outstanding progress. Questions as far as if the knee is stable did the ACL reconstruction work are already answered, its just a matter of strengthening the rest of his leg back up at this point. I was initially shocked they went WR in Rd 2 also but thought they would take one at some point. There was a fairly big run on WR from the beginning of Rd 2 on and I doubt that Broyles would have lasted more than another 10 or 15 picks. IMO he will be better than Alshon Jeffery taken a little earlier, probably is as talented as AJ Jenkins taken in Round 1 and I like him a lot more than TJ Graham, Mohammed Sanu, and Devier Posey taken soon after Broyles went at No 54. The one player I really liked as a WR/Return man was TY Hilton from FIU but he still went fairly early at the end of Rd 3.

Anyway look at the the other top teams and there WRs - Green Bay with Jennings/Nelson/Jones/Driver/Cobb, Saints with Colston/Henderson/Moore (having lost Meachem), Giants with Nicks/Cruz/drafting Randle and having lost (Manningam), and now the 49ers adding to the mix with Moss/Crabtree/AJ Jenkins/Kyle Williams and a now Saints like assortment of RBs with Gore/Kendall Hunter, the power runner of Brandon Jacobs and the ultimate 3rd down back LaMichael James. Teams are going to spread you out and try to get your Alfonso Smith and Chris Harris type players on the field. I think its important to be able to do that to teams and the Lions are just a durable runner away from being incredibly difficult for D Coordinators to prepare for. On the flip side the depth at corner is very important but Im not sure you need star players - you just need to avoid having players that are liabilities and by adding Bentley and Jacob Lacey they essentially have pushed Brandon McDonald/Alfonso Smith off the field - they werent going to be able to add someone who could cover Jordy Nelson unless they got lucky and had Kirkpatrick or Gilmore fall in Rd 1.

I didnt understand everyones infatuation with Johnson , I wasnt that high on him . Now Hayward, I'm mad that the Packers got him , he's going to be a stud .. Great breakdown

April 28th, 2012, 10:25 am

yostevo

Heisman Winner

Joined: March 28th, 2005, 7:50 pmPosts: 818Location: Burbs of De-town

Re: Lions select Ryan Broyles, WR, OK (Rd. 2)

This just reeks of Derrick Williams 2.0 and I didn't understand that pick in the exact same manner. I hope I'm wrong.

April 28th, 2012, 10:48 am

The Legend

Off. Coordinator – Joe Lombardi

Joined: February 11th, 2005, 3:01 pmPosts: 4030Location: WSU

Re: Lions select Ryan Broyles, WR, OK (Rd. 2)

I disagree - Broyles is nothing like Derrick Williams. Not like him at all. Williams was a jack of all trades type player at Penn State on the offense but never a go to guy like Broyles. Even in college Williams showed poor hands, had trouble fielding punts as well and then tested poorly in the predraft proday workouts with regards to top end speed. As a comparison for you, D Williams was a less dependable version of Mich St WR/KR/PR/trick play man Keyshawn Martin but then didnt back up the agility, elusiveness he had on tape at his workouts. Broyles has excellent hands and was a dominant go to player in college - even his early post surgery workouts suggest he is a much better athlete than Derrick Williams and he has a much better build and upper body strength.

April 28th, 2012, 11:41 am

The Legend

Off. Coordinator – Joe Lombardi

Joined: February 11th, 2005, 3:01 pmPosts: 4030Location: WSU

Re: Lions select Ryan Broyles, WR, OK (Rd. 2)

Quote:

I didnt understand everyones infatuation with Johnson , I wasnt that high on him . Now Hayward, I'm mad that the Packers got him , he's going to be a stud .. Great breakdown

Packers are having probably the best draft of the teams in the division. (Lions second, Vikings doing very well also but Bears reaching) Im definitely scared by what they ve been able to add. Two impact players at positions of need with OLB/DE Nick Perry and Jerel Worthy at DT, maybe will have him be a 3-4 end. Perry opposite Clay Matthews is scary and makes me that much more happy that we drafted Riley Reiff. Worthy is a special player though Im not sure a 3-4 is the best fit for him. Hayward was a good pick for them at CB where they are getting pretty old but he doesnt solve all of there secondary problems. Hopefully Broyles can help Stafford light up the board on them in the coming seasons.

Anyway look at the the other top teams and there WRs - Green Bay with Jennings/Nelson/Jones/Driver/Cobb...

This is what I thought about this morning. A year ago, the Packers had Jennings, Nelson, Jones, and Driver...didn't stop them from drafting Cobb in round 2 last year. I was as confused as anyone about the Broyles pick but ultimately I get why they made this choice.

Schwartz had an interesting statement about the Broyles pick last night, and about their draft strategy in general. He essentially said that if you chase needs and reach for a player simply because of the position he plays, then you still have a need at that position because you've selected a player who might not be good enough to help you, or doesn't fit your system.

I also think that Lions fans are WAY oversensitive about drafting WRs. I think that anytime the Lions draft a WR for the next decade, fans are going to grumble about it.

_________________Proud member of the Contract Extension for Schwartz Fan Club.

April 28th, 2012, 12:00 pm

yostevo

Heisman Winner

Joined: March 28th, 2005, 7:50 pmPosts: 818Location: Burbs of De-town

Re: Lions select Ryan Broyles, WR, OK (Rd. 2)

The Legend wrote:

I disagree - Broyles is nothing like Derrick Williams. Not like him at all. Williams was a jack of all trades type player at Penn State on the offense but never a go to guy like Broyles. Even in college Williams showed poor hands, had trouble fielding punts as well and then tested poorly in the predraft proday workouts with regards to top end speed. As a comparison for you, D Williams was a less dependable version of Mich St WR/KR/PR/trick play man Keyshawn Martin but then didnt back up the agility, elusiveness he had on tape at his workouts. Broyles has excellent hands and was a dominant go to player in college - even his early post surgery workouts suggest he is a much better athlete than Derrick Williams and he has a much better build and upper body strength.

Good post but I actually wasn't comparing their skill sets directly, I was just noting the similiar feel I got when we took him in the 3rd of the 2009 draft. I just didn't see the value at the time of that pick in the exact same manner hence the 2.0 reference.

CommentaryOriginally Published: April 27, 2012 By John Clayton | ESPN.com

NEW YORK -- NFL teams zipped through Rounds 2 and 3 in just under four hours Friday.

There was a run on offensive linemen in the second round. Surprise moves were made on quarterbacks. Russell Wilson went to Seattle. Nick Foles went to Philadelphia. Michigan State's Kirk Cousins didn't get drafted. The Broncos landed Brock Osweiler to be Peyton Manning's understudy.

And, yes, there were trades. After an eight-trade first round, there five trades in each round Friday. Still surprising is how fast teams were making selections. Teams had their picks in before the league had time to announce them. So who were the winners and losers on Day 2?

Winners

1. St. Louis Rams: General manager Les Snead nailed it. His offseason was on trial Friday during the second round. The Rams have spent an offseason angling to find players whom coach Jeff Fisher could play on a team being totally rebuilt. Snead worked trades with the Redskins during the offseason and the Cowboys on Day 1. They entered Friday with three second-round picks. Snead drafted wide receiver Brian Quick, cornerback Janoris Jenkins and running back Isaiah Pead in the second round. Quick is a big receiver who can help quarterback Sam Bradford on routes outside the numbers. If he picks up the offense, he can do for Bradford what Brandon Lloyd offered last season -- become a big, dependable target. Quick might have been taken a little higher than expected, but at least the Rams got a wide receiver. The Rams have needed an explosive backup running back for years. Pead can be a significant upgrade from the backups of the past two years. Last season, the Rams tried Cadillac Williams behind Steven Jackson. This Cadillac had run out of gas. Pead comes to the Rams with a full tank and plenty of elusiveness. The selection of cornerback Trumaine Johnson in the third round capped the first two days of the draft. The Rams seemingly had more cornerback injuries than they scored points last season. Now, they have Cortland Finnegan, Jenkins and Johnson. First-round pick Michael Brockers will help disrupt quarterbacks and running plays at the line of scrimmage.

2. Green Bay Packers: Statistically, the Packers had one of the worst defensive years in NFL history. How they won 15 games while giving up 411.6 yards a game is remarkable. General manager Ted Thompson needed a good defensive draft and he got it. The key came Friday when the Packers made defensive lineman Jerel Worthy their second-round pick, trading up to get him. This must have been important. Thompson traded up only three times in drafts before this season. On Friday, he traded up for Worthy and second-round cornerback Casey Hayward. The Packers miscalculated last year by letting Cullen Jenkins go to Philadelphia in free agency and thought Mike Neal could be his replacement. Now Worthy looks like the worthy replacement at defensive end. What helps is he's 309 pounds and has the size and flexibility to help out at nose tackle. The key to the draft is how quickly linebacker Nick Perry, the first-round pick, develops as a pass-rusher on the other side of Clay Matthews. For the record, Matthews was one of the few draftable players Thompson traded up to select.

3. Pittsburgh Steelers: Sometimes, you can get lucky in drafts. The Steelers were more than lucky. The offensive line has been a problem for years. Age caught up to it several years ago. Injuries have plagued it for the past two seasons. The Steelers needed a break that didn't involve a fractured arm or leg. They got it in the first round when guard David DeCastro fell to them at the No. 24 pick. He's the best guard prospect since Steve Hutchinson. Friday night capped the draft when Mike Adams fell to them in the second round. Getting a potential starting left tackle in the second round is a huge break. Adams had a first-round grade until the league informed teams Adams failed a drug test for marijuana. With Adams at left tackle, Mike Pouncey at center and DeCastro at left guard, the Steelers are assembling one of the better young offensive lines in football. In the third round, they added a young linebacker prospect Mike Tomlin can groom in Sean Spencer. The Steelers always like to stockpile young linebackers and get them ready for the 3-4.

Losers

1. Detroit Lions: The selection of wide receiver Ryan Broyles in the second round might be great for the future, but it doesn't offer a lot for the beginning of the season. The Lions must win now. Broyles is a project because he's coming off an ACL knee reconstruction. Plus, the Lions are pretty solid at wide receiver. They are thin at cornerback, particularly with the loss of Eric Wright to the Tampa Bay Buccaneers in free agency. Broyles might develop into a great slot receiver, but it's likely he will be on the physically unable to perform list until November. While the Lions might be looking for a replacement for receiver Nate Burleson, they needed a cornerback now. Their current starters are Chris Houston and former nickel corner Aaron Berry. They did take cornerback Dwight Bentley in the third round, but there is no guarantee he can make the transition into an NFL starter coming from Louisiana-Lafayette. Tackle Riley Reiff is a good first-round selection to eventually replace Jeff Backus at left tackle, but the Lions have been neglecting their secondary a little too long.

2. San Francisco 49ers: The 49ers drew criticism in the first round when they took wide receiver A.J. Jenkins, who wasn't a first-round pick on some teams' boards. The selection of running back LaMichael James in the second round was even more puzzling. How many running backs do the 49ers need? They have Frank Gore, one of the more dependable backs in the league. Gore might be wearing out, but he's still good. Kendall Hunter is a good inside runner. They added free-agent Brandon Jacobs for short-yardage and goal line. James might be a good fit as a third-down back. The 49ers average 31 carries a game. Unless they are running off Gore, they'd need 40 carries a game to keep this group happy. The 49ers are overdoing it at running back.

3. Arizona Cardinals: Where's the beef? Quarterback Kevin Kolb took a pounding last year. Part of it was poor offensive line play. Part of it was Kolb's bad instincts in the pocket. He needed help along the offensive line, but he didn't get it in the first three rounds of the draft. The Kolb trade with Philadelphia kept the Cardinals out of the second round. No one can criticize taking wide receiver Michael Floyd in the first round. He's the second-rated receiver in the draft. In the third round, though, they took cornerback Jamell Fleming from Oklahoma. The Redskins, Oilers and Chiefs got offensive line help in the third round in the 10 picks before the Cardinals' third-round selection of Fleming. If the Cardinals thought the draft was running out of blockers, they should have traded up for help. If the Cardinals don't get blocking help for Kolb, he'll be a concussion waiting to happen.

So much for keeping up with the packers. At least our arch rival 49ers are hanging with us. But still, the Lions are considered by Clayton as the WORST in the NFL thru day 2.

_________________

April 28th, 2012, 1:54 pm

Detroit_LIons

All State

Joined: January 17th, 2006, 10:53 amPosts: 345Location: Detroit

Re: Lions select Ryan Broyles, WR, OK (Rd. 2)

the opposite of what espn says is actually true for most of their stuff .

April 28th, 2012, 2:00 pm

DJ-B

Rookie Player of the Year

Joined: April 5th, 2007, 5:51 pmPosts: 2327

Re: Lions select Ryan Broyles, WR, OK (Rd. 2)

RE: Claytons Day 2 Winners & Losers

1) It isnt worst including the 1st round. Its Day 2 losers so just our 2nd and 3rd picks he didnt like.

2) Broyles already healed enough from his injury to run a 40 at his pro-day. He could have declined and still been drafted saying he was recovering, but he felt good enough to run and did so at a decent pace. He wont be on PUP, he will be going full speed in training camp.

3) AZ Drafted Bobby Massie today, considered a late 1st to solid 2nd round OT. Just goes to show you that judging by segmented rounds doesnt really make any sense. He should wait until the end of the draft to decide who winners and losers are. (and really needs to wait 3 years to see who pans out).

4) There is a reason Clayton is a talking head paid by ESPN, and Not working for an NFL team selecting talent. I trust our FO much more than anything he has to say.

Fair to Note: I don't care for Clayton if it isnt obvious, hence the harshness. Not trying to rip on you for posting that windbags article LF57.

These guys have to write something and make snap judgments about the draft. We all know it takes several years to evaluate a draft. How many times did the Lions "win" on draft day during Millen's tenure? It always seemed like the Lions were given "A" grades after the draft, only to find that those players actually weren't very good.

Like the media, we make snap judgments too. I think we can all agree the Broyles pick was a surprise--to us and to the media. It's easy to bash the pick now but it will take time to know if the pick had value or not.

_________________Proud member of the Contract Extension for Schwartz Fan Club.

April 28th, 2012, 2:16 pm

DJ-B

Rookie Player of the Year

Joined: April 5th, 2007, 5:51 pmPosts: 2327

Re: Lions select Ryan Broyles, WR, OK (Rd. 2)

The Legend wrote:

I disagree - Broyles is nothing like Derrick Williams. Not like him at all. Williams was a jack of all trades type player at Penn State on the offense but never a go to guy like Broyles. Even in college Williams showed poor hands, had trouble fielding punts as well and then tested poorly in the predraft proday workouts with regards to top end speed. As a comparison for you, D Williams was a less dependable version of Mich St WR/KR/PR/trick play man Keyshawn Martin but then didnt back up the agility, elusiveness he had on tape at his workouts. Broyles has excellent hands and was a dominant go to player in college - even his early post surgery workouts suggest he is a much better athlete than Derrick Williams and he has a much better build and upper body strength.

I know the comparison to DWill was based on the feeling when we drafted him, but here is an actual comparison of Stats.

I like Broyles, but don't like the pick. Everyone knows that I wanted us to grab a WR at some point, I really didn't even care if it were in the first or second rounds if someone like Stephan Hill would have fallen to us in the 2nd. That said, I really don't think that Mayhew is as solid with his "BPA" approach that people claim he is.

I really think DeCastro would have been a better first round pick than Rieff, and I really think that Konz would have been a better 2nd round pick than Broyles. I think DeCastro and Konz are both better values than Rieff and Broyles.

The one thing that I DO agree with is that Rieff fills a better NEED than DeCastro. I think Rieff is a Jeff Backus clone, but he's nastier and run blocks better. Jeff Backus is a slightly better than average LT, and I think Rieff could be better than that. I think Rieff could and will be our LT for years to come, but I think we passed on a pro-bowl OG to get him. That's what concerns me.

April 28th, 2012, 3:04 pm

The Legend

Off. Coordinator – Joe Lombardi

Joined: February 11th, 2005, 3:01 pmPosts: 4030Location: WSU

Re: Lions select Ryan Broyles, WR, OK (Rd. 2)

Quote:

1. Detroit Lions: The selection of wide receiver Ryan Broyles in the second round might be great for the future, but it doesn't offer a lot for the beginning of the season. The Lions must win now. Broyles is a project because he's coming off an ACL knee reconstruction. Plus, the Lions are pretty solid at wide receiver. They are thin at cornerback, particularly with the loss of Eric Wright to the Tampa Bay Buccaneers in free agency. Broyles might develop into a great slot receiver, but it's likely he will be on the physically unable to perform list until November. While the Lions might be looking for a replacement for receiver Nate Burleson, they needed a cornerback now. Their current starters are Chris Houston and former nickel corner Aaron Berry. They did take cornerback Dwight Bentley in the third round, but there is no guarantee he can make the transition into an NFL starter coming from Louisiana-Lafayette. Tackle Riley Reiff is a good first-round selection to eventually replace Jeff Backus at left tackle, but the Lions have been neglecting their secondary a little too long.

addressing clayton here. First of all Broyles isnt really a project, he is very polished - moreso than Titus Young was a year ago and that is working out so far. As for the ACL reconstruction, it looks like he is on track and it shouldnt be considered a long term problem. Even if he isnt active until week 6 or so he can still learn and be available for the stretch run at which point who knows which players are healthy. As for the cornerback, Aaron Berry isnt getting the credit he is due - the Lions struggled without him last season. Yes he played mostly in nickel but he was usually covering one of the starting WRs not the slot/3rd WR. Bentley seems to match up well with the quicker slot receivers so he is a good replacement for Wright. Im not convinced that any of the CBs picked between Broyles and Bentley is substantially a better prospect than Bentley is. They ve also added Greenwood and can have him be the 5th CB or 4th safety while he develops and tries to adjust to a new level of play whatever they want to do with him but he has decent size and excellent physical skills

April 28th, 2012, 3:20 pm

The Legend

Off. Coordinator – Joe Lombardi

Joined: February 11th, 2005, 3:01 pmPosts: 4030Location: WSU

Re: Lions select Ryan Broyles, WR, OK (Rd. 2)

Quote:

I like Broyles, but don't like the pick. Everyone knows that I wanted us to grab a WR at some point, I really didn't even care if it were in the first or second rounds if someone like Stephan Hill would have fallen to us in the 2nd. That said, I really don't think that Mayhew is as solid with his "BPA" approach that people claim he is.

I really think DeCastro would have been a better first round pick than Rieff, and I really think that Konz would have been a better 2nd round pick than Broyles. I think DeCastro and Konz are both better values than Rieff and Broyles.

The one thing that I DO agree with is that Rieff fills a better NEED than DeCastro. I think Rieff is a Jeff Backus clone, but he's nastier and run blocks better. Jeff Backus is a slightly better than average LT, and I think Rieff could be better than that. I think Rieff could and will be our LT for years to come, but I think we passed on a pro-bowl OG to get him. That's what concerns me.

Some good points. If you look at the lineman availabe after our first two picks we could have gone DeCastro and Konz or DeCastro and Mike Adams which lands you what everyone is saying the best guard and most likely the best center or another projectable LT that is probably a little more athletic maybe more upside than Reiff but has a lot more questionmarks surrounding him. Time will tell what is better but I agree with you that Mayhew doesnt use a strict BPA system regardless of position played. He picks out some players that he thinks can fill certain roles and goes after them. BPA to me means that the team gives every player a numerical score, makes a list and just sits there and takes whatever highest rated player is available at there pick - occassionally trading up or down depending on how similar or different the actual draft is from there list. With the way Mayhew picks it seems he starts out with the best player that fills a need (not the most immediate need) and finds a way to fill the remaining gaps later.

April 28th, 2012, 3:32 pm

thelomasbrowns

Pro Bowl Player

Joined: August 24th, 2010, 9:54 pmPosts: 2482

Re: Lions select Ryan Broyles, WR, OK (Rd. 2)

Mayhew gets the benefit of the doubt because he's only really drafted one certifiable bust (D. Williams). I know Spievey is borderline and some other guys have had injury issues, but come on, that's a damn good track record.

_________________Jim Caldwell, on whether Jim Harbaugh is stealing his thunder: "Me? I don't have any thunder."