This
file is a collection of various messages having a common theme that I have
collected from my reading of the various computer networks. Some messages date
back to 1989, some may be as recent as yesterday.

This file is part of a collection of files called Stefan's
Florilegium. These files are available on the Internet at:
http://www.florilegium.org

I
have done a limited amount of editing. Messages having to do with separate
topics were sometimes split into different files and sometimes extraneous
information was removed. For instance, the message IDs were removed to save
space and remove clutter.

The
comments made in these messages are not necessarily my viewpoints. I make no
claims as to the accuracy of the information given by the individual
authors.

Please
respect the time and efforts of those who have written these messages. The
copyright status of these messages is unclear at this time. If
information is published from these messages, please give credit to the
originator(s).

In
either To the King's or To The Queen's Taste there is a LOVELY rice pudding
recipe which uses marrow... They say it's good warm, and it certainly is.
Four of us sat on my front steps one day, tasting it 'while it cooled' until it
was all gone. The addition of pepper to the usual spices adds a little snap
that is brought out by eating it hot to warm. Cool, the pepper is sort of
subdued...

Devra
(at work, or I'd quote the recipe)

Date:
Wed, 12 Dec 2001 20:16:06 +0100

From:
UlfR <parlei at algonet.se>

To:
sca-cooks at ansteorra.org

Subject:
Re: [Sca-cooks] marrow bones

Philip
& Susan Troy <troy at asan.com> [2001.12.12] wrote:

>
Anyway, you've got to do the marrow-filled beef birds from Taillevent.

How
about doing the deer marrow pasties from Grewe? Might work with the

beef
marrow, even if the deer ones should give more flavour.

--

UlfR
parlei at algonet.se

Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 10:21:42 +0100

From: UlfR <parlei at algonet.se>

To: SCA-Cooks maillist <SCA-Cooks at
ansteorra.org>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] marrow bones

Stefan li Rous <stefan at
texas.net> [2001.12.13] wrote:

> I would appreciate both of these
recipes being quoted here, when someone

> gets the chance.

20 A Pasty of Deer
Marrow (K17, D15)

Boil deer bones; crack them open when
they are cold. Make a dough of

wheat flour and water. Out on it
(i.e., spread over the rolled pastry)

salt, pepper, and cinnamon, and the
marrow from the bones; make a pastry

of it (i.e., roll it up and pinch it
closed; cf recipie 30) and bake it

in an oven.

I have never tried this recipie, with any
kind of marrow. The recipie 30

that is refered to in Grewes composite
translation is the famed

"Icelandic chickens". I think I
have some beef marrow in the freezer (not

very much, but enough for a small
sample), and this is odd enough

that I want to try it. A cold water crust
with spiced fat. Certainly not

health food...

UlfR

Date:
Tue, 03 May 2005 17:57:29 -0400

From:
"Phil Troy / G. Tacitus Adamantius"

<adamantius.magister
at verizon.net>

Subject:
Re: [Sca-cooks] Marrow substitute

To:
Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

Also
sprach Volker Bach:

>
I haven't got terribly much experience with this, but I found a few recipes

bones,
and their marrow, can have a slightly sulfurous aspect to their

flavor
profile, which is why you [relatively] rarely find stock being

made
from fresh pork bones, unless it's being mixed with chicken

bones,
shrimp shells, etc. It's a popular meat for southern Chinese

soups
of a sort of country or family style, like real winter melon

soup,
which is a slightly different animal than the stuff you get in

restaurants.
I'm a heretic in this regard, and prefer the chicken or

mixed
pork, chicken and shrimp versions. My mother-in-law makes all-

pork
soups frequently, and all her children love them ("Mmmmm!!! Pork

neck
bones boiled in dishwater, improperly skimmed _and_

unseasoned!"),
but I'm not really seeing the allure. I guess I'm

spoiled,
brought up by rich people (!) with questionable values, and

generally
a barbarian.

As
for sheep bones, well, you've pretty much got to like mutton and

lamb
to appreciate their marrow, which is basically fat anyway, and

the
thing that most mutton-avoiders seem to object to most is the

flavor
of the fat, so this is probably something that carries over

into
their view on the marrow of these animals.

Also,
as you mention, their marrow bones are smaller, and just as hard

to
saw through for somewhat less of a payday. I wouldn't be surprised,

though,
to find that I'm not the only one who passionately enjoys

something
like lamb shanks, fishing for the marrow when the meat is

eaten.

Adamantius

Date:
Thu, 14 Aug 2008 02:13:51 -0400

From:
Gretchen Beck <grm at andrew.cmu.edu>

Subject:
Re: [Sca-cooks] properly prepared marrow?

To:
Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>, SCA-Cooks

maillist
SCA-Cooks <SCA-Cooks at Ansteorra.org>

--On
Thursday, August 14, 2008 12:53 AM -0500 Stefan li Rous

<stefanlirous
at austin.rr.com> wrote:

<<<
Anybody know of any evidence of these [marrow spoons] being used during our
period? To a certain extent, this makes me think of a later time period,
Georgian? Edwardian? But I can imagine them being used in upper crust period
feasts. >>>

<A
Register of the Members of St. Mary Magdalen College, Oxford,> notes an

object
identified in a modern inventory as a marrow spoon with an

inscription
dating to 1667 and another whose inscription is dated 1664.

I'm
not sure about the heavy ball on the end though; most descriptions I'm

seeing
suggest a scoop at both ends (or one describes a fork with a marrow

spoon
as a handle)

toodles,
margaret

Date:
Fri, 21 Aug 2009 21:00:39 -0700

From:
David Friedman <ddfr at daviddfriedman.com>

To:
Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

Subject:
Re: [Sca-cooks] Is Zuccnini Marrow?

<<<
Am correct that Zuccinni is marrow and if so how about a few some

what
period recipes for using it up?

Kay >>>

Note
that "marrow" refers to two entirely different things.

"Vegetable
marrow" is the British term for various varieties of

squash,
at least some of which are similar to Zucchini. "Marrow" is

the
stuff inside bones. There are lots of references to marrow in

period
cookbooks. What is now called "vegetable marrow" is from the

New
World. The earliest use of the term given in the OED is 19th

century,
so I think it's safe to assume that references to "marrow"

in
period cookbooks don't refer to it.

As
another poster has explained, there were old world edible gourds

in
period, but they don't seem to have been called marrows.

--

David/Cariadoc

www.daviddfriedman.com

Date:
Tue, 25 Aug 2009 18:55:55 -0500

From:
"Terry Decker" <t.d.decker at att.net>

To:
<mirhaxa at morktorn.com>, "Cooks within the SCA"

<sca-cooks
at lists.ansteorra.org>

Subject:
Re: [Sca-cooks] Is Zuccnini Marrow?

-----
Original Message -----

From:
"Linda Peterson" <mirhaxa at morktorn.com>

<<<
So now I'm even more confused about marrows. They appear to be different from
zucchini, and more variable in appearance. Maybe we can get Michele to grow
some. >>>

Marrow
is a very general and slippery term. In the broadest usage, any New World
squash is a vegetable marrow. For example, I have a color plate in Elizabeth
David's Italian Food that identifies a pumpkin-like squash (looks like a
Japanese pumpkin to me) as a marrow. In this usage, zucchini would be a
marrow.

In
the narrower, botanical usage, a marrow is any of the varieties of C. ovifera,
a subspecies of C. pepo that produces a wide range of ornamental squash in many
shapes and colors. In particular, marrow refers to members of C. ovifera that
are being used as a food stuff. Zucchini does not fall under this definition,
but is a close relative of the vegetable marrow. Some of the ornamental
squashes that show up in groceries in the fall to be used as Thanksgiving and
Christmas decorations will be vegetable marrows.

The
term marrow can also refer to an avocado.

The
earliest use of the term vegetable marrow that I have found is 19th

Century,
so it marrow is most likely to refer strictly to New World squash.

Bear

Date:
Fri, 21 Aug 2009 21:34:27 -0500

From:
"Terry Decker" <t.d.decker at att.net>

To:
"Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

Subject:
Re: [Sca-cooks] Is Zuccnini Marrow?

Most
precisely, marrows (primarily ornamental squash being used as table

vegetables)
are variants of C. pepo ovifers. Zucchini are a variant of C.

pepo
closely related to C. ovifers, but not considered part of the

subspecies.

General
usage of the term marrow is broader than the taxonomic usage, so any

number
of members of C. pepo from zucchini to pumpkins can be referred to as

marrows.

Bear

<<<
Am correct that Zuccinni is marrow and if so how about a few somewhat

period
recipes for using it up?

Kay >>>

Date:
Fri, 21 Aug 2009 23:19:31 -0400

From:
Johnna Holloway <johnnae at mac.com>

To:
Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

Subject:
Re: [Sca-cooks] Is Zuccnini Marrow?

wyldrose
wrote:

<<<
Am correct that Zuccinni is marrow and if so how about a few some what

period
recipes for using it up?

Kay
>>>

*zucchini*
so named for Ital., pl. of /zucchino/ (small) marrow, dim. of

/zucca/
gourd. ]

*are
known in the United Kingdom as * Courgettes. Also const. as sing.

*Zucchini
is t*he usual word for the vegetable in N. America and

Australia.
OED only dates it back to 1929.

John
Ato writes "*zucchini* /Zucchini/ is the usual term in American and

Australian
English for /courgettes/, to which it is etymologically

related.
It is a direct borrowing of Italian /zucchini/, the plural of

/zucchino/,
?courgette?, which is a diminutive form of /zucca/, ?gourd?.

This
came from Latin /cucutia/, a by-form of /cucurbita/, source of

French
/courge/, ?gourd? (of which /courgette/ is a diminutive)."

(You
can do an image search on Google and compare the produce to the

names.
It's quite easy to see the differences between the vegetable

marrows
and zucchini.)

Zucchini,
as grown in the USA today, are summer squash and would have

come
to the Old World after 1492.

What
was already in the Old World was "The white-flowering /zucca

rampicante/
(vining gourd) or /zucca a tromba/ (trumpet gourd) is an Old