RACHEL MADDOW, HOST: Chris, thank you for that report on that, I`ve been following Mike Elk forever. I`m glad you had him on. We`re going to have much more on what happened in West, Texas.

CHRIS HAYES, "ALL IN" HOST: Excellent. I`m going to go watch.

MADDOW: Appreciate it. Thanks, man.

And thanks to you at home for staying with us for the next hour.

This is a remote controlled car. Most remote controlled cars like most everyday electronics that we use, they run on conventional batteries. So plug an AAA battery into the handset, plug another a couple of AAA batteries into the car itself, and you`re off and running doing monster truck stuff at micro size.

If you happen to get a $30 remote controlled car in your Christmas stocking like I did this year, a couple AAA or AA batteries does the trick.

But if you`re really into remote-controlled cars. If you`re a remote control vehicle hobbyist, that might not be enough. You might instead use a battery that looks like this.

This is C size nickel metal hydride battery. It is made specifically for things like remote controlled toys and it`s marketed to have a, quote, "very long cycle life and a rapid battery charge-up." This particular battery is a rechargeable battery that can last more than a week when it is fully charged. This is apparently the kind of thing you look for if you want a more high-performance experience with your remote control vehicle than what you would get with the battery you pick up at the supermarket checkout counter.

This particular specialty battery, as you can see, is made by a company that`s called Tenergy. Tenergy is a sort of high end battery company that`s based in northern California. And although there`s nothing magic about these batteries they sell, they`re also not ubiquitous, they`re a little more expensive, they`re a little more specialized, therefore and a little harder to find.

Tenergy doesn`t wholesale battery like this to big box stores like Walmart or Best Buy. They sell them to specialty battery stores and to hobby stores. And that sort of limited availability gets to be an important thing. It gets to be possibly a thing of national importance, when you consider that this is one of the pictures that the FBI is circulating of one of the two devices that exploded near the finish line of the Boston marathon on Monday.

One of those devices included a specifically made Tenergy battery. Specifically made in the sense it`s not a ubiquitous supermarket battery. At Tenergy battery, you can really only buy that sort of thing in select hobby stores or online.

Tenergy said this week they were appalled one of their batteries was used in this bombing. The company`s vice president saying, quote, "The main use for these is for toys, to bring people joy and to see it used in this way is horrifying." The company says they have reached out to the FBI to assist in any way they can with the investigation, which presumably could involve, providing the FBI with a list of which stores in the Boston region they sell this particular battery to.

And today, NBC News has learned that the FBI has been canvassing hobby stores in the Boston area to see whether any of the electrical components used in the bombing were purchased there, specifically those Tenergy batteries and other potential components. That one little detail about the battery is just one of the ways in which the investigation into what happened at the Boston marathon on Monday is now becoming more and more granular.

Today, the FBI unveiled what we sort of expected would be pictures of people that investigators wanted to talk with. What we expected to be an appeal to the public for help in identifying so-called persons of interest who the FBI wanted to interview. But when they called their press conference this afternoon, they were much more direct than that.

The FBI did not say something this afternoon like we would like to talk to these folks. The FBI this afternoon came right out and said suspects. They said these are our main suspects, in the bombing of the Boston marathon.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RICHARD DESLAURIERS, FBI SPECIAL AGENT IN CHARGE: Today, we are enlisting the public`s help to identify the two suspects. After a very detailed analysis, of photo, video, and other evidence, we are releasing photos of these two suspects.

They are identified as suspect one and suspect two. They appear to be associated. Suspect one is wearing a dark hat. Suspect two is wearing a white hat.

Suspect two set down a backpack at the site of the second explosion just in front of the Forum restaurant. We strongly encourage those who were at the Forum restaurant who have not contacted us yet to do so.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MADDOW: In addition to those pictures that you just saw being released there today, the FBI also released this surveillance video showing the two suspects moving through the crowd at the marathon on Monday.

NBC`s Pete Williams reports these two individuals will also now appear on official FBI wanted posters.

The FBI had a choice about how they were going to talk about these individuals today, and it is a choice that is -- that at least has to be inflected by our recent history of misidentifying suspects in high-profile domestic attacks -- in attacks like the anthrax attacks after 9/11 and the Olympic Park bombing in Atlanta in 1996. The names and faces that appeared in the press early on in those investigations did not end up being the individuals who were ultimately held responsible for those crimes.

Given that history, given the fact that news organizations like "The New York post" showing an eagerness and shamelessness about publishing jump to conclusion statements about the suspects in the Boston bombing, information that is wrong -- and we`ll have more on that in a minute -- given that history, what`s going on right now with this intense interest and the media being rather irresponsible about some of these matters, the FBI could`ve played it safer than they did today. They could have labeled these individuals as persons of interest.

But they did not do that. They went the whole hog and they are calling them suspects. They are calling them wanted.

Is that surprising? Do we know enough about how the FBI works to know if that is an important decision that they made? Does it indicate more about the investigation than law enforcement is saying explicitly? And what happens next?

Joining us now is Don Borelli. Don Borelli is a 25-year veteran of the FBI who once served as assistant special agent in charge of the New York Joint Terrorism Task Force. Mr. Borelli is now chief operating officer of the Soufan Group, which is a strategic consultancy.

Mr. Borelli, thank you for being here. It`s nice to have you back.

DON BORELLI, SOUFAN GROUP: Thank you for having me.

MADDOW: How important is it? And what does it mean for the FBI to call these two men not persons of interest or people they want to talk to, but to call them suspects? That`s a term of art, is it not?

BORELLI: Well, I think so. You`re actually right on that.

The -- there has to be a high degree of confidence that these individuals are likely involved in this plot to plant the bombs. Otherwise, I think you would have seen softer language and I`m sure there was a lot of discussion on whether to release these photographs. And basically now, you`re not accusing them, per se, but you`ve certainly put the public on this worldwide manhunt to find these guys.

So, there has to be a high degree of confidence before you`re going to walk out on that limb.

MADDOW: We are told the FBI is already getting names called in, in response to their call for public leads. As you say, this is now a worldwide manhunt for these two men who they have identified.

What are the next steps that will help them figure out if these calls they`re getting are credible? How do they decide what leads to chase and how do they chase them?

BORELLI: Well, what they`ll do is they`ll start off by running the names of -- in all the databases that are available to the FBI and local law enforcement. So they`ll start a triage process. From there, they`ll try to get further identification. For example, dates of birth, addresses, things of that nature that will be more positive identifiers.

They may try to support those with other kind of records. For example, if they get an address, they may look at utility records to see if that matches up, or vehicle records, phone records, all these things.

I mean, it`s a multiple layered approach. It`s not going to be just one person calling in on an 800 number. That`s the start but then there will be a lot of legwork that goes into it before they finally figure out, is this something that needs to be elevated to the next level or is it going to wash out?

MADDOW: Looking at the video that has been playing on a loop ever since the FBI released it, in your experience, what details in this surveillance video are investigators looking at to try to identify the two men? What could be helpful in those pictures?

BORELLI: Well, it`s going to be difficult. From what I`ve seen just in that small loop, and I imagine there`s a lot more details than has been released, one of the things that strikes me, these guys seem pretty calm. Seem to not be looking over their shoulder. They don`t seem to be overly nervous.

And to me, that`s not a great sign. You know, I hope I`m wrong in that. When I see somebody acting that calm and collected, it suggests they might have had -- and I say might, I want to couch this -- some type of training.

But, again, that is just an observation from a few seconds of video clip. I wouldn`t want to make that bold statement without seeing a lot more.

MADDOW: It seems like it`s that -- what you just suggested might be possible. It also might be possible it it`s not them and the reason they don`t look nervous is because they`re not the guys.

BORELLI: Exactly. I mean, you know, finding the guys is the first step. You then have to link them to the bombs. That`s why all of the other avenues of investigation are not sitting still while we`re just taking telephone calls, you know, on the tip line for possible look-alikes.

You mentioned the battery. This is going to be a huge piece of the investigation, if they can figure out where, you know, who purchase those batteries and try to narrow down the scope from there. And, really, all other physical evidence, going back to some of the things we were talking about on day one.

Even the mangled backpack, chances are, you know, they may be able to figure out the make and manufacturer and then work backwards on the backpack to see where was that purchased?

I know in my experience, when we found a number of backpacks in Najibullah Zazi, we able to take and track those to the manufacturer and figure out who ultimately they sold those and then follow that trail there. So, there there`s a lot of avenues of investigation that will continue to be pursued. Including one of the photographs I believe showed an individual talking on a cell phone. So, that`s a whole other avenue of the investigation to look at information trapped in that cell phone tower and try to narrow it down from there.

So, there`s a lot of different investigative angles being pursued right now.

MADDOW: Don Borelli, former of the FBI, now chief operating officer of the Soufan Group, thanks for helping us understand what this investigation is like.

BORELLI: Thank you.

MADDOW: I really appreciate it, Don. Thank you.

BORELLI: Sure.

MADDOW: One of the things that came up earlier during the FBI conference in Boston was another huge media failure that took place on this subject again today. After yesterday afternoon, all that wrong reporting from CNN and others that there was a suspect in custody, that somebody had been arrested, that was not true at all.

After that disaster yesterday, this morning, we all woke up to this being the big front page headline and picture in a tabloid called the "New York Post". "Bag men feds seek these two pictured at Boston marathon." "The New York Post" splashed across its front page this picture of the gentleman on the left with the backpack and the white jacket, and the gentleman on the right in the blue jacket. I should note, in case this seems confusing, that "The Post" did not blur out these guys faces we did, to put this on the air tonight, because those two guys who "The Post" all but accused on their front page, of perpetrating Monday`s bombing the "bag men".

These guys had nothing to do with it. But "The New York Post" put them on the front page and called them the "bag men" anyway. And the FBI addressed the fact that these men had nothing to do with the bombing at today`s press conference.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REPORTER: There are pictures today in the newspaper all over the country, including the "New York Post", that identify two men as potential suspects. I`m just wondering what it does to your investigation when things like this get out and these guys are wrongfully --

DESLAURIERS: I think I addressed that. Thank you. I think I addressed that question in my statement saying the only photos that should be officially relied upon in this investigation are those you see before you today.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MADDOW: In other words, these guys who "The New York Post" put on their front page aren`t the guys. "The New York Post" published a little minor update later in the day, showing the guys` picture again. Again, they didn`t blur out the faces we are. We are blurring out the faces here. They published this update, two men probed in Boston marathon bombings cleared by investigators.

But "The Post" has so far not apologized for what they did. And every print edition of that paper today all but names and pictures, those two young men as the suspects. They are not the suspects.

ABC News managed to track one of them down today. He is only 17 years old.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Everywhere I go, I just don`t want to look at people because when they look at me, they`re going to be like, you just did this. How could you do that? Why would you even do that? If you look at it, it wasn`t me.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MADDOW: This disaster today from the "New York Post" comes right after the exact same paper also did this -- inaccurately claiming there was a suspect in the bombing who they said confidently was a Saudi national. That was not true either. And "The New York Post" has not apologized for that either. Apparently they just do not care.

The president and first lady spent the day in Boston today, meeting with volunteers and first responders, people who are among the first to arrive on scene after the bombing on Monday. The president and first lady met with some injured in the attack, people who are still recovering at local hospitals in Boston. The president also spoke today at an interfaith service at Boston`s Cathedral of the Holy Cross.

The governor of Massachusetts, Deval Patrick, spoke at that service today. The mayor of Boston, Tom Menino, spoke at that service today. He had to push himself out of a wheelchair to stand to be able to do it. He`s recovering from a broken leg.

But it was President Obama himself who brought the whole crowd to its feet today, a crowd that included some of the families of victims from an emotional and rousing speech.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I`m here today on behalf of the American people with a simple message: Every one of us has been touched by this attack on your beloved city. Every one of us stands with you.

I know this because there`s a piece of Boston in me. You welcomed me as a young law student across the river; welcomed Michelle, too.

(APPLAUSE)

You welcomed -- you welcomed me during a convention when I was still a state senator and very few people could pronounce my name right.

(LAUGHTER)

Like you, Michelle and I have walked these streets. Like you, we know these neighborhoods. And like you, in this moment of grief, we join you in saying -- "Boston, you`re my home." For millions of us, what happened on Monday is personal.

Our prayers are with the injured -- so many wounded, some gravely. From their beds, some are surely watching us gather here today. And if you are, know this: As you begin this long journey of recovery, your city is with you. Your commonwealth is with you. Your country is with you. We will all be with you as you learn to stand and walk and, yes, run again. Of that I have no doubt. You will run again. You will run again.

(APPLAUSE)

Our faith in each other, our love for each other, our love for country, our common creed that cuts across whatever superficial differences there may be -- that is our power. That`s our strength.

We race. We strive. We build, and we work, and we love -- and we raise our kids to do the same. And we come together to celebrate life, and to walk our cities, and to cheer for our teams.

When the Sox and Celtics and Patriots or Bruins are champions again -- to the chagrin of New York and Chicago fans -- the crowds will gather and watch a parade go down Boylston Street.

And this time next year, on the third Monday in April, the world will return to this great American city to run harder than ever, and to cheer even louder, for the 118th Boston Marathon. Bet on it.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

MADDOW: That was President Obama today in Boston. Again, further information about the two men who the FBI are now calling suspects in the Boston bombing can be found at FBI.gov. We also have links to all the relevant pictures and video at our Web site, Maddowblog.com.

The FBI continues to ask for any and all information saying no detail is too small. If you have information to share, they ask you call 1-800-CALL-FBI. If you call from your cell phone and don`t have those numbers on your phone anymore, I`ve handily transcribed them for you. It`s 1800-225-5324.

We`ll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

MADDOW: Aside from today`s obviously dramatic revelation of pictures and video of two men described as suspects in the Boston marathon bombing. It was also what seems to represent a some what dramatic shift in law enforcement`s overall understanding of the case. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DESLAURIERS: Within the last day or so, through that careful process, we initially developed a single person of interest. Not knowing if the individual was acting alone or in concert with others, we obviously worked with extreme purpose to make that determination. Indeed, through that process, the FBI developed a second suspect. Today, we are listing the public`s help to identify the two suspects.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MADDOW: The two suspects. The FBI does not believe that a lone wolf committed this crime. That is new, as of today.

Does that suggest anything to investigators beyond changing the numerical nature of their manhunt? What, if anything, do two suspects opposed to one suspect, what does that change about law enforcement`s approach to this crime overall?

Joining us now is Michael. He`s a former director of the National Counterterrorism Center. He`s an NBC News national security analyst and he works as senior counselor to a security company called Palantir Technologies.

Mr. Leiter, thank you for being here.

MICHAEL LEITER, NBC NEWS NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: Good to be here, Rachel.

MADDOW: From a counterterrorism perspective and from manhunt perspective, what seems significant to you, if anything, about having two suspects instead of one?

LEITER: A couple things. And one thing I would start with is, even though they are now looking for two, they`re also not assuming it is only two. In the same that they didn`t assume it was only two. They`re going to focus on these two, but they`re also going to go into this saying there could be three, there could be four, they just don`t know that.

MADDOW: OK.

LEITER: But this will help in a couple ways. One, it suggests there`s probably communications between these two. If they can figure out how they were communicating, they can help build that case and they might be able to localize where they are. Two people used cell phones, used emails, all those things.

Second, it does raise the possibility that there is a little more capability here. Obviously, two people can do more things than one. They may have gone in different directions now. So, it simply -- it complicates things for them, but in some ways, it also gives them some additional avenues to find these two and build a case against them.

MADDOW: Does it -- I`ll tell you, just personally, my initial reaction watching the press conference and saying, hmm, two suspects was oh, this must be some ideologically motivated terrorism in the basics sense of we understand terrorism crime. But then the next thing I thought was, you know what? Columbine.

LEITER: Right.

MADDOW: Columbine was two guys and I don`t know what those guys` motive was, halfway between crazy and nonsense. And that doesn`t -- you know, maybe we should call that terrorism but we don`t.

Is there anything about it being two people rather than one that should lead us to think about it as a more ideologically driven thing? Or is it still just not known?

LEITER: Well, I have to say that as an investigator they care about ideology, because the ideology might give them a sense of, how these guys might operate in the future, to have to protect against other attacks. But I honestly think they`re less focused on ideology rather than finding them.

MADDOW: Yes.

LEITER: So, a little bit of -- in the process, they want to know why this happened. They want to know why it happened. But, first, they want to know how it happened where it happened. And I do think there is a slightly greater chance, again I`m not sure it matters from an investigative point, that it is ideological with two. But you`ve already cited the case with Columbine, it doesn`t have to be.

MADDOW: What do you read into the fact that the suspects -- what if anything do you read into the fact that the suspects did what they did in an era in which people`s movements in public are so widely recorded? I mean, I`m struck by suspect number two, our friend in the white hat there, wearing his hat backwards, which: A, is so old school as to be not even in school anymore. But, also, he`s not hiding his face. If you have the bill in front of your face you`re disguising your face. This is blatantly not trying to.

Is there any way to tell the difference between brazen and stupid?

LEITER: No. And we`ve been pretty lucky so far over the past 12 years, that most of our terrorists have been stupid. And they`ve been stupid both in their ability to execute and how they try to escape law enforcement. In this case, they actually weren`t stupid to some extent. They made the bombs work.

They are being stupid or they were stupid in trying to evade law enforcement.

MADDOW: Is it important that there has been no credible claim of responsibility? It seems like there`s maybe some nonsense claims of responsibility online, but nothing that anybody takes seriously.

LEITER: I think it is. And the reason is important. I think most of us were moving this way anyway. Without claim of responsibility from an international organization, this was always looking -- this was starting to look more and more like a domestic group or domestic individual.

What we still don`t know if it was a domestic homegrown in the sense of anarchist, anti-government or inspired by al Qaeda. Again, I think from an investigative point, it doesn`t matter all that much but this is obviously something they are trying to figure out. And looking at the communications and other things, will help them understand that.

MADDOW: And the possibility that it is domestic but it`s also a nonsense crime. It`s a crime that has no discernable motive or none we care about looms as well.

Michael Leiter, former director of any National Counterterrorism Center, now Palantir Technologies, thank you for being here.

LEITER: Good to be here.

MADDOW: You`re working long hours these days.

All right. Still ahead, Gabby Giffords chief of staff is here tonight for the interview.

And then the background on the massive explosion in Texas, in McLennan County today. We`ve got some important background on that story, and that`s ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

MADDOW: Whatever it was you felt when the U.S. Senate voted not to expand background checks for people trying to buy guns, whatever you felt, you can bet your rent money that it pales to what former Arizona Congresswoman Gabrielle Giffords felt. And I`m not speculating about this. I know this because she put it down in print.

This is how Gabby Giffords felt about the Senate vote on the Manchin-Toomey amendment yesterday. And the words practically cinch your eyeballs when you read them. They are so full of furious disgust.

I read some of that op-ed on the air here last night as soon as it crossed the wire to show up in this morning`s "New York Times." And as soon as I got off the wire, I posted a link to the op-ed on Twitter. It`s the last thing I did before I left the office.

Just my link to that, just that one way of getting to that op-ed online last night got 13,000 hits and counting.

Gabby Giffords chief of staff is here for the interview tonight, somebody I`ve been looking forward to talking to a long time. That`s coming up.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

MADDOW: In World War -- excuse me -- in World War II, lots of factories that have been making civilian products were effectively commandeered for the war effort, right? They were reconfigured to stop making consumer products, and instead start making things that would help the military fight and win the war.

When World War II was over, those factories mostly went back to what they had been doing, but not all of them. One element of post-World War II geo-strategy from the Truman White House was that some of what had been manufactured for the war effort should keep being manufactured after the war for purposes of the peace or at least for maintaining the peace in a way that would help our side of the burgeoning Cold War against the Soviet Union. So, specifically, the explosive ammonium nitrate, that had been manufactured during wartime for use in bombs.

But Truman decided that even after the war was over, those high levels of ammonium nitrate production should be kept up in peacetime because if you are not using ammonium nitrate for bombs, the other great use for ammonium nitrate is a very effective fertilizer. We would keep using it after the war, we would ship it to our allies around the world to use as fertilizer. They would be happy to get this fertilizer from us, they would feed their people and they would not be tempted to fall into the sphere of the Soviet Union instead of our sphere because we were keeping them so well-fed.

And so it was that as of 1947, the United States with the world`s supplier of explosive ammonium nitrate for use as fertilizer. And a French freighter ship called the Grandcamp, a French freighter, ended up sitting in Galveston Bay, a Texas City, loaded down with more than 2,000 tons of ammonium nitrate we were going to ship on that freighter over to our ally, France.

On board, a sailor tossed a cigarette below decks.

Ammonium was manufactured as an explosive during the war. It was treated as such by the military. But after the war, it was treated as fertilizer by civilians who didn`t know better, who might not have known it was explosive. And so, this sailor threw a cigarette below deck and a fire started on that ship sitting in Galveston Bay.

And all of the city came to see the fire burning onboard that ship, thousands of people crowding to the harbor and then the ship exploded in a blast that the great Texas journalist Bill Minutaglio`s book about the explosion characterizes kind of along the lines of Nagasaki, between 600 and 800 people were killed instantly, 5,000 people were injured. Nearby airplanes were knocked out of the sky. Texas City, Texas, was nearly wiped off the map.

We have a picture of the shaft from the Grandcamp`s engine which ended up way inland clear across the railroad tracks. The 3,000-pound anchor from the ship was thrown across the city. That explosion was the largest industrial accident ever in the history of the United States and it happened 66 years ago this week.

Again, that was the fertilizer, ammonium nitrate. That`s the same fertilizer Oklahoma City bomber Timothy McVeigh mixed with fuel oil to create his bomb that blew up the federal building 18 years ago tomorrow in Oklahoma City. But the Galveston Bay blast, it should be noted just for context, was about 300 times the size of the bomb in Oklahoma City. We know fertilizer can be dangerous. We know it is often made from potentially explosive materials.

In the city of West in Texas, the fertilizer plant there that exploded last night had permits for two 12,000 gallon tanks of anhydrous ammonia, which is a gas that`s kept in liquid form under high pressure. It can ignite at very high temperatures. It`s used in making ammonium nitrate fertilizer.

The chief deputy sheriff who explained today how the situation inside that plant was still dangerous said he believe there was ammonium nitrate itself at the facility as well, not just its component parts. That plant is located 1,000 feet from a school. It`s located 600 feet from a nursing home. A 50 unit apartment complex is even closer than that or it was closer than that. Now, it`s mostly destroyed.

Search and rescue efforts continue right now in the city of West, Texas, beyond the city that was out-right destroyed by this huge explosion, half the remaining population of the town has been evacuated for fear of toxic plumes. The explosion at West Fertilizer measured as a 2.1 magnitude earthquake.

In 2006, West Fertilizer was fined $2,300 by the EPA for not implementing a risk management plan. They self-reported there was very little risk at their facility.

In the past five years, there were only six total workplace safety inspections of fertilizer facilities in Texas, and the plant that just blew up at West was not one of them. They had no automatic shutoff system. They had no firewall. They had no alarms. They said they did not need them.

This plant burned brush and pallets on site in February leading the school next door to them to call 911 and evacuate all the kids. That plant stuffed with all that ammonia and ammonium nitrate had never bothered to tell the West Intermediate School, which is 1,000 feet away, that they were going to do that controlled burn and so, the school evacuated and called 911.

The West Intermediate School right next to the plant is now destroyed along with most buildings within a half mile radius of that plant.

Search and rescue efforts continue at this hour. The mayor of West tells "The Dallas Morning News" that they have found 8 to 10 people who have died in this explosion thus far, after going through 80 percent of the devastated areas. He says they expect to find more bodies once they search the fertilizer plant, once they get through the rest of this disaster zone.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

MADDOW: Federal law says if you are a felon, you are not supposed to be able to buy a gun. If you have a severe mental illness, forgive the phrasing but I`m quoting here, if a judge has declared you to be mentally defective, you are not supposed to be able to buy a gun in the United States of America. That`s the law.

Of course, you can`t tell by looking at someone if a judge has declared that person to be mentally defective. You cannot tell by looking at a person if they are a convicted felon. But if you are either of those things, the law says you cannot buy a gun.

Here is how we check to see if you are a felon or if you are adjudicated mentally ill before you buy a gun in this country.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MARTIN SAVIDGE, CNN: The crew went north to Kingsport, Tennessee, for a Saturday morning local gun show held in a hotel convention center. It was a Smith & Wesson MP .45 caliber semi-automatic that first caught our producer`s eye. Asking price, $625.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It`s not brand spanking new but --

(CROSSTALK)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Cash and carry?

SAVIDGE: But it`s early and the team opts to keep looking. Ten to 20 minutes later, they circle back to the same table, negotiating for the same gun.

(INAUDIBLE)

SAVIDGE: It`s a deal. No background check. It`s not needed for a private sale. But the seller is legally required to check ID like a driver`s license, to make sure the buyer is not from out-of-state. In this case, no identification asked for, no paperwork, not even a question like, what are you going to do with it?

In fact, neither the seller nor buyer even used a first name.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MADDOW: That`s a CNN reporter named Martin Savidge, who did a recent undercover reporting at gun shows buying three semiautomatic handguns with extra ammunition magazines and AR-15 assault rifle with an expended capacity 30-round magazine. For all of those guns, he paid about 2,800 bucks, without filling out a single form, all cash, all without any paperwork whatsoever, all without exchanging names of the person the gun was bought from.

Needless to say they never asked if he was a felon or adjudicated mentally ill, let alone actually check a database to see if that was the case.

In this undercover report, the purchase of the same previously banned weapon that was used to kill those first graders at Sandy Hook, that same weapon, Bushmaster, with a 30-round extend magazine, that purchase took 70 seconds. No paperwork, no names, no questions, no receipt, no background check.

And that is how we enforce the federal law in this country that says no one can sell you a weapon if you are a felon or seriously mentally ill. That`s how we enforce it.

The vote yesterday in the Senate against the Manchin-Toomey bill was a bill to take one baby step toward actually enforcing the federal law that says felons and those seriously mentally ill people can`t buy guns. We do not enforce that law right now in this country, because cash and carry, no questions asked guns sales are legal at gun shows. The Manchin-Toomey bill would have just said that purchases like this would still be legal, they can still happen, but the buyer has to have a background check, just like they do in a gun store.

Why do we bother having background checks at gun stores if we do not have them at gun shows or for people who sell guns online? Why even bother with background checks at all if we say you only have to have them at one place that you can buy guns?

That was the great victory for the NRA yesterday, keeping the loophole open so crazy people and felons have somewhere to buy guns without anybody asking questions. That`s what won yesterday. Ninety percent of the country is against the NRA on this, but the NRA won.

And so, what`s next? The president last night said, I see this as just round one. He said, I believe we`re going to be able to get this done sooner or later. He said, we are going to get this right.

And last night, former Congresswoman Gabby Giffords of Arizona wrote a scathing op-ed that was published in "The New York Times" this morning.

She said, "The senators who voted against background checks for online and gun show sales and those who voted against checks to screen out would-be gun buyers with mental illness failed to do their job. They looked at these most benign and practical of solutions offered by moderates from each party and then they looked over their shoulder at the powerful shadowy gun lobby and brought shame on themselves and our government itself by choosing to do nothing."

She said, "Speaking is physically difficult for me but my feelings are clear. I`m furious. I will not rest until we have righted the wrong these senators have done."

And she is not kidding. Her gun reform group Americans for Responsible Solutions will start running ads as soon as this weekend, thanking the senators who voted yet and lambasting the senators who voted no on something that 90 percent of the public wants done but that the Senate decided not to do.

Joining us now for the interview Pia Carusone. She`s executive director of Americans for Responsible Solutions. Before that, she was chief of staff to then-Congresswoman Gabby Giffords.

MADDOW: If 90 percent of the public supporting something isn`t enough to get it through Congress, what does? I mean, would 95 support make a difference? Would 100 percent support make a difference?

CARUSONE: Yes, I don`t know. I mean, we`ve been talking about that. You know, if the public opinion polling isn`t enough reason, despite what I think is the right thing to do, it`s a good policy, and I think a lot of these senators feel that in their heart, at least the polling should have I think brought them there.

So many of them are worried about their re-election and their legacies and sort of, you know -- their favorables at home that we felt this would have done it but apparently not.

MADDOW: If public opinion doesn`t move it, what do you think the other levers are that affect senators` votes on these things and are those things movable?

CARUSONE: Yes. I mean, I think just the general outrage that we`re seeing today and I think that`s not going to go away. I think there`s really two things at play. I mean, most people, you know, your segment there, they think that this is reasonable. When they think about a background check before buying a gun, that is not extreme, it doesn`t threaten your Second Amendment rights, and for most people, it seems like a pretty common sense thing to do.

So I think there is some anger over there. But on top of that, it`s sort of just general disregard for the will of the people that happened yesterday that is actually sort of rare. I mean, most of the issues debated in our public policy sphere are more closely contested.

And this really wasn`t. There was nothing complicated or difficult about yesterday`s vote but yet they couldn`t do it.

MADDOW: Americans for Responsible Solutions has not existed for a long time. The NRA has been around for a long time. How do you plan to work from here on out to change the minds of or defeat the senators who have been against you on this?

CARUSONE: I mean -- so we`re certainly regrouping a bit but the current plan is, as you said, we`re running ads immediately, thanking Senators Landrieu, Hagan, Collins and McCain for starters and we`ll look at a few more, and then also talking to the constituents of the senators that voted no. So we`re going to start that immediately.

And as Gabby said in that op-ed, if we can`t make our community safer with the Congress we have today, then we`re going to do everything we can to change our Congress.

The second thing is, you know, although on the federal level we had, you know, certainly a setback yesterday, at the state level there is a lot happening. Mark was in Delaware yesterday, testifying at the state senate there. They passed a background checks today, universal background checks, 13-8. The governors signed into law.

We saw that happen in Colorado, in New York, Oregon is poised to do it. I mean, this is happening at the state level if the federal government can`t do it.

And then, third, just building this movement. There are, like I said, three-and-a-half months old, but have a couple hundred thousand members so far. We have raised millions of dollars and I think there is a sense of really just, you know, a level of frustration that is coming towards us that people just want to help. They`re just so sick of being told the NRA is too powerful and they have too much influence.

MADDOW: In terms of translating those feelings into political action when somebody becomes a member of Americans for Responsible Solutions, what does that mean?

CARUSONE: Well, I mean, their name is listed now among a group of people that want to see moderate gun policy in this country. One that does protect our Second Amendment rights, doesn`t take your guns away, doesn`t lead to registration but makes our community safer.

And that`s sort of what we`re up to. Mark and Gabby are gun owners and westerners and there is nothing extreme about them.

So by joining us, you know, we`re able to submit names. So, you know, you join us, give us your zip code, we`ll tell your member of Congress you exist in the world and you want background checks.

So -- and then, you know, in the future as we do rallies and events, just sort of generally part of our group and willing to add their voice to the mix.

MADDOW: You`re building a network of activists. It`s a network that did not exist before this fight.

Pia Carusone, who`s the executive director of Gabrielle Giffords` advocacy organization, Americans for Responsible Solutions -- thank you for being here tonight. I`d be looking forward to talking to you for a long time.

CARUSONE: Thanks for having me.

MADDOW: Thanks. We`ll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

MADDOW: America, meet John Goss. In 2010, President Obama appointed to John Goss to a job nobody had before. His entire job is to make sure these guys never make it into the great lakes. John Goss` title is Asian Carp director. And as Asian Carp director, he is charged with making sure this jumpy and invasive species of fish does not migrate from the rivers of the Midwest into Lake Michigan and the rest of the Great Lakes.

Because these fish do not just jump into boats and jump around boats, this fish make their way from waterway to waterway to waterway. First, they got into the Mississippi and then because of flooding, they got into the Missouri River and Illinois River and so on.

Whenever they reach a new waterway, Asian carp dominate and decimate the native fish species by competing for food. They ended up destroying the fishery. They could destroy the whole ecosystem. So, keeping Asian carp out of the Great Lakes is not only an important job, it`s a hard job. You can never be sure you are done with it.

Which is why today, on a landlocked part of the south side of Chicago, something that seemed unrelated to the job of keeping Asian carp out of the Great Lakes turned out to not be unrelated at all.

(VIDEO CLIP PLAYS)

MADDOW: Giant sinkhole which opened up and swallowed three cars this morning in Chicago. That was the third of the three cars. One person was hospitalized with minor injuries. The heavy rain and flooding the city of Chicago has received in the last day, half a foot of it all at once, all of that rain could be responsible for that sinkhole. It opened up after a water main broke, a water main that was a cars iron pipe almost 100 years old.

It is thought the rain could have contributed to the breaking of that pipe, which definitely contributed to that sinkhole. If your car was not swallowed up by a sinkhole on the south side of this Chicago this morning, if you made it as far as the highway, hoping to get to work, you may have been greeted by this. Three different Chicagoland expressways closed down, completely submerged, under water.

Overnight flooding also forced the city`s water department to open the locks that separate the Chicago River from Lake Michigan. This is something they haven`t done in almost two years. They try to avoid doing this because it means allowing millions of gallons of sewage from the Chicago into Lake Michigan, the area`s main source of drinking water.

It`s not clear when the city will be able to close the locks and stop the sewage-ridden water from flowing into the lake, which, again, happens to be water that people drink.

But that brings us back to these guys. Our friends, the jumping fish. Two-and-a-half years ago, the Army Corps of Engineers finished construction on barricades that run along a 13-mile stretch of the Des Plaines River. Big electric fences to serve as the last line of defense during flooding to keep Asian carp from migrating into a canal that runs directly into Lake Michigan.

Tonight, with all of the flooding in and around Chicago, the fear is that the river will soon crest above the height of those fences. Rendering them useless and potentially sending Asian carp right into a waterway in which there is no last line of defense.

And then what happens to the Great Lakes.

Forecasters say all of the rain in the Chicago area is ending tonight. But what that means for the threat of the dreaded Asian carp invasion we have been fighting so long and we now have an Asian carp for here in Washington, on that we will have to keep you posted.

Now, it`s time for "THE LAST WORD WITH LAWRENCE O`DONNELL". He`s again in Boston tonight.

Have a great night.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.END

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