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They also have actually useful patches, that would also work with upstream goals, that they just haven't bothered to even submit.

For example their kernel patches for async isapnp and async initrd extraction. Both have been shipping in Ubuntu for several years now, and have been submitted upstream exactly zero times that I know of. Especially the latter would be widely useful.

Hmm, couldn't users submit those themselves? Or is it that only authors of the patches have the ability to do so?

They also have actually useful patches, that would also work with upstream goals, that they just haven't bothered to even submit.

I didn't dispute that, i said in 'many cases', not Ubutnu doesn't produce a single good patch.

Originally Posted by curaga

For example their kernel patches for async isapnp and async initrd extraction. Both have been shipping in Ubuntu for several years now, and have been submitted upstream exactly zero times that I know of. Especially the latter would be widely useful.

I wonder why they have not bothered, then? (in this particular case). It's not like those are 'deal-makers/breakers' or offer Ubuntu some huge advantage (or even minor) over XYZ distro.

Originally Posted by ворот93

Ubuntu has incredible level of polish. Almost everything works out of the box and w/o bugs. Why the hell should end-user give a fuck about GNU/Linux crap? Come on.

That's pretty funny, maybe you should go to launchpad and actually look at some of the bugs that affect ubuntu... without bugs? (YA RIGHT!). ...what was it, maybe a week ago - i posted a video showing 'the nvidia blank window bug' that was a regression in compiz (and thus unity) that bug has been around since 11.04 with no solution in sight... I wouldn't call windows appearing on the screen incorrectly, 'polished'. ~ but this is just one example (but a good one too, since Canonical is developing compiz / unity).

You also went on to say, that fedora would fail to boot (and for some reason you think Ubuntu doesn't have this issue?), yet google produces many many links when searching 'ubuntu 12.10 fails to boot', some issues have been fixed, others not.

from what i have observed, Ubuntu/Canonical is better at marketing than anything else. They aren't heavy contributors to many FOSS projects (which they rely on).

They also have actually useful patches, that would also work with upstream goals, that they just haven't bothered to even submit.

For example their kernel patches for async isapnp and async initrd extraction. Both have been shipping in Ubuntu for several years now, and have been submitted upstream exactly zero times that I know of. Especially the latter would be widely useful.

If upstream wanted them why wait for Ubuntu to submit? The source code is out there, go get them and implement them. Why does it have to be a one way street? Isn't that the whole point of the GPL?

That's pretty funny, maybe you should go to launchpad and actually look at some of the bugs that affect ubuntu... without bugs? (YA RIGHT!). ...what was it, maybe a week ago - i posted a video showing 'the nvidia blank window bug' that was a regression in compiz (and thus unity) that bug has been around since 11.04 with no solution in sight... I wouldn't call windows appearing on the screen incorrectly, 'polished'. ~ but this is just one example (but a good one too, since Canonical is developing compiz / unity).

You also went on to say, that fedora would fail to boot (and for some reason you think Ubuntu doesn't have this issue?), yet google produces many many links when searching 'ubuntu 12.10 fails to boot', some issues have been fixed, others not.

On absolute majority of hardware Ubuntu boots fast and works out of the box. In my book, Ubuntu is the only distro suitable for non-geeks. Sorry

from what i have observed, Ubuntu/Canonical is better at marketing than anything else. They aren't heavy contributors to many FOSS projects (which they rely on).

On absolute majority of hardware Ubuntu boots fast and works out of the box. In my book, Ubuntu is the only distro suitable for non-geeks. Sorry

Ubuntu boots significantly slower than any system using systemd (when properly configured). Not sure where you get this idea that Ubuntu boots fast (it doesn't). I also don't get why you are saying sorry because ubuntu is the only distro suitable for non-geeks? (personally, i could care less about that). I should also point out, that the majority of distros boot on the majority of hardware ~ Ubuntu doesn't have some 'big advantage' here...

Originally Posted by ворот93

Only basement dwellers give a fuck about that.

I don't even have a basement. nice try though... And you are wrong (and have an overly simplistic outlook on the situation, which means to me, that your opinions really don't mean anything, since you obviously don't have a clue as to what yoiu are talking about...sorry). You know whom cares about that? - the people whom develop the software that Ubuntu relies on (which Canonical essentially presents as 'their ecosystem'). Hypothetically, if we flipped the coin here, linux didn't exist and you were stuck with Windows/Mac, you would give a shit if Microsoft/Apple wasn't improving their software stack themselves, but instead relying almost completely on 3rd-parties for the core components of their OS and then just 'papering over' bugs with crappy patches :\

Ubuntu boots significantly slower than any system using systemd (when properly configured). Not sure where you get this idea that Ubuntu boots fast (it doesn't). I also don't get why you are saying sorry because ubuntu is the only distro suitable for non-geeks? (personally, i could care less about that). I should also point out, that the majority of distros boot on the majority of hardware ~ Ubuntu doesn't have some 'big advantage' here...

Oh, it does, believe me. And systemd is some new experimental shit that belongs to alpha testing polygons like Fedora, not established distros like Ubuntu.

I don't even have a basement. nice try though... And you are wrong (and have an overly simplistic outlook on the situation, which means to me, that your opinions really don't mean anything, since you obviously don't have a clue as to what yoiu are talking about...sorry). You know whom cares about that? - the people whom develop the software that Ubuntu relies on (which Canonical essentially presents as 'their ecosystem'). Hypothetically, if we flipped the coin here, linux didn't exist and you were stuck with Windows/Mac, you would give a shit if Microsoft/Apple wasn't improving their software stack themselves, but instead relying almost completely on 3rd-parties for the core components of their OS and then just 'papering over' bugs with crappy patches :\

Oh, it does, believe me. And systemd is some new experimental shit that belongs to alpha testing polygons like Fedora, not established distros like Ubuntu.

I've been using systemd for almost a year - ZERO problems. Several distributions are now using it by default (oh yeah, so fricking 'experimental'). You don't have a clue bud! Fedora not an established distro ~ LOLOLOLOLz. I don't used it, but either you are incorrectly using the word 'established' or you just don't have a clue at all. It sounds to me like you are just a fanboy, more than anything.

and i don't have to believe you - i've tested sysv, upstart, and systemd ~ hands down, systemd is much faster.

Originally Posted by ворот93

Oh yeah, you are a Mr. Know All. What an ignorant motherfucker.

interesting how your comments don't actually address any point that i was actually making (why am i not surprised). and fyi, if you are going to call someone ignorant - you better be prepared to explain exactly what makes them ignorant...

because from where i am sitting, it is actually you whom is ignorant by definition (since that is exactly what your comments reflect. sorry about your luck).

I've been using systemd for almost a year - ZERO problems. Several distributions are now using it by default (oh yeah, so fricking 'experimental'). You don't have a clue bud! Fedora not an established distro ~ LOLOLOLOLz. I don't used it, but either you are incorrectly using the word 'established' or you just don't have a clue at all. It sounds to me like you are just a fanboy, more than anything.

and i don't have to believe you - i've tested sysv, upstart, and systemd ~ hands down, systemd is much faster.

And I don't have to believe you either. From my experience, Fedora and openSUSE are two pieces of crap that fail to work out of the box correctly. Unlike Ubuntu which always rocks right from the start.

interesting how your comments don't actually address any point that i was actually making (why am i not surprised). and fyi, if you are going to call someone ignorant - you better be prepared to explain exactly what makes them ignorant...

because from where i am sitting, it is actually you whom is ignorant by definition (since that is exactly what your comments reflect. sorry about your luck).

It's interesting how you are a militant opensourcist, be it attacking NVIDIA for providing proper drivers or Ubuntu for being more successful than Red Hat's stuff. Sorry, but you are a fanboy and a crying bitch.

And I don't have to believe you either. From my experience, Fedora and openSUSE are two pieces of crap that fail to work out of the box correctly. Unlike Ubuntu which always rocks right from the start.

You're right, you don't have to believe me. but on any system i have used, or any system anyone else i know has used - systemd boots in a fraction of the time of upstart or sysv. i also could care less if you think opensuse or fedora is crap (since i use neither, that has ZERO relevance - ie: i was never making an argument 'for' Fedora or Suse vs. Ubuntu - did you think i was or something?!? wtf?).

Originally Posted by ворот93

It's interesting how you are a militant opensourcist, be it attacking NVIDIA for providing proper drivers or Ubuntu for being more successful than Red Hat's stuff. Sorry, but you are a fanboy and a crying bitch.

It's interesting how you are either a complete moron, or have me mixed up with someone else, entirely. (or both)

1. Militant opensourcist? - fuck no. I am very pragmatic and use lots of proprietary applications; everything from splashtop to VMware, Lightworks to other platforms such as MacOSX (including adobe CS5 and many closed-cource proaudio apps). Where you get this idea i am an only opensource guy is beyond me (and makes your notions deserving of ridicule) ~ again, you don't have a frickin' clue as to what you are talking about (at all!). I use the best tools for the job, it does not matter to me, if they are opensource or proprietary... it is nice when they are OSS - because then, if i need to, i can modify them. Yes, i do like OSS - but that doesn't make me a fanboy (if that was what you were implying?) since, in reality, there are very _practical_ reasons to like OSS over proprietary apps.

2. Attacking Nvidia ~ dumbass, I USE nvidia cards in every machine that i own (except one, that i rarely use / laptop), including my Mac and also ALL of my linux machines.. which as a matter of fact ALL are using Nvidia binary driver (latest beta) - you couldn't pay me to use any of the OSS drivers vs. using nvidia blob. ...and to my knowledge i have never 'attacked' nvidia, since i am generally a happy customer and continue to buy their products (as well as recommending them, particularly for linux users whom want good GFX).

3. As far as redhat is concerned, i am *indifferent* to them. Yes, I use CentOS on a few servers at work (Ubuntu server sucked at the time - we tested it out) but i would NEVER use Fedora or Ubuntu on one of my desktops. So your notion that i am (potentially) a redhat fanboy is a bunch of BS. Even our choice to use CentOS at work, was not mine alone and we gave Ubuntu it's fair stake in possibly replacing our linux infrastructure at the time ~ it failed where RHEL / CentOS succeeded... but it still doesn't change the fact that i am indifferent.

So tell me, how exactly did you come to these conclusions about me?? (that have *all* turned out to be entirely incorrect *in every possible way!*) I guess you like to just make shit up about people, but aren't smart enough to realize they can easily set the record straight...