will there be ROS-support for the upcoming Arbotix Pro?
And will the Arbotix-M disappear if Arbotix Pro is out?

MC

jwatte

03-13-2015, 04:05 PM

I don't know about #1. When I asked #2 a while back, the answer was "no" because the Pro isn't intended for hobbyist direct programming, but instead to be used as a fixed piece of kit like a CM-730.

calmur

03-13-2015, 04:21 PM

ok, let's wait and see.

tician

03-13-2015, 05:41 PM

As I understand it, the arbotix-pro is intended to be hardware and firmware compatible with the CM-730. This means you could use the existing CM-730 source files from the DARwIn-OP/21CRobotics frameworks to figure out how to interface with the CM-730 and use that to build a node to publish collected servos/sensors states and subscribe to goal positions (and LED colors/states). I don't recall anyone having has done this yet, but it should not be too difficult to just copy the CM-730 specific files and then stuff calls to the useful functions into a ROS node polling servos for their present positions and writing their new goal positions.

calmur

03-14-2015, 07:56 AM

Do you mean something like a customized firmware with ROS-bindings or another stack on top of the default CM-730 firmware
communictating over usb to outside and over firmware to inside? Like a replacement of DARwIn-OP_ROBOTIS_v1.6.0 or DARwIn-OP/21CRobotics?

I could imagine a ROS-nodes-stack on top of the CM-730 firmware. This would also imply that the new stack should run on a CM-530.
Eeeh, yes, that's what I ever wanted. Don't change hardware just put a ROS-connector and play :-). I'm in if it's possible and not too much work.

So what makes the Arbotix Pro without ROS Support different from a CM-730 or other CMs?

tician

03-14-2015, 11:22 AM

I mean not touching the CM-730 at all. The CM-730 basically takes everything from USB over one UART and dumps it out to another where the servos are connected, then sends back any responses (plus its own response if anything is requested from the CM-730). The CM730/MX28 source files basically handle all dynamixel packet building specific to the MX-28 and CM-730 hardware using the CM-730 default firmware. Just copying the CM730 and MX28 header and source files from the framework and modifying CM730.h/cpp a bit to remove some of the framework/platform specific interface stuff. After finish replacing certain pieces (such as m_Platform with a barebones serial interface), then using the MotionManager::Process() as a quick reference of how to use the read/write functions of the CM730 object to create a new ROS node to publish/subscribe topics for servos and CM-730 LEDs/sensors.

The fact that the Arbotix Pro will be a CM-730 compatible device available for sale outside a 4-digit ($1100 when I last checked) electronics kit with a main processing board so laughably obsolete as to be worthless (still not as bad as the RoBoard which lacks i686 compatibility).

DresnerRobotics

03-15-2015, 03:31 AM

As tician said, the main release of the Arbotix-Pro will feature a CM-730 compatible firmware to keep things in line with the Darwin-OP framework and give people some options. This firmware is open source, and there is a 10-pin cortex spec JTAG available for custom firmware programming. The Arbotix-Pro will have its own 20-pin to 10-pin programming adapter & jig using contact pins, over using something like the Olimex adapters. This is both more robust and less expensive, and helps us with programming large runs of boards.

The HR-OS5 (research humanoid version) next phase in R&D is full integration with ROS. As part of this, there will be a separate, ROS specific firmware available for the Arbotix-PRO. We're working with one of our partners in bringing this forward, but no timeline other than 'this year' is set.

Please note that while users are able to program the Arbotix-Pro, only the CM-730 compatible firmware and ROS firmware will be officially supported. Any custom firmware is up to the users.

calmur

03-15-2015, 05:46 AM

Thanks for clarification and very nice to hear that ROS will be in the Arbotix-Pro boat! That saves me work.

There are so few robotics microcontroller boards with ROS integration and I can't understand why. Isn't ROS a de facto standard?
Does everybody and every company who doesn't use an Arbotix write it's own ROS adapter classes to get access to the ROS universe?

Anyway, thanks all for their replies.

MC

jwatte

03-15-2015, 01:33 PM

Isn't ROS a de facto standard?

Yes and no. It's also very big, and hard to learn. If I'm getting a microcontroller to control a robot with RC, or follow a line maze, or do some other similarly limited-scope task, rolling my own is going to be faster and easier than using ROS. (Not to mention ROS only runs on higher-end systems, not on the microcontroller itself.)

KevinO

03-15-2015, 04:19 PM

Honestly any hardware communication can be wrapped up into a ROS node. It only takes a small amount of lines to either listen to ROS topics or publish ROS topics. I wrote one for the USB2AX in less than ten additional lines than what I had for my standalone(non-ROS) system.

KevinO

03-15-2015, 04:22 PM

Although as mentioned, having firmware specifically for ROS would simplify things of course. :)

bstag

03-16-2015, 02:41 PM

As tician said, the main release of the Arbotix-Pro will feature a CM-730 compatible firmware to keep things in line with the Darwin-OP framework and give people some options. This firmware is open source, and there is a 10-pin cortex spec JTAG available for custom firmware programming. The Arbotix-Pro will have its own 20-pin to 10-pin programming adapter & jig using contact pins, over using something like the Olimex adapters. This is both more robust and less expensive, and helps us with programming large runs of boards.

The HR-OS5 (research humanoid version) next phase in R&D is full integration with ROS. As part of this, there will be a separate, ROS specific firmware available for the Arbotix-PRO. We're working with one of our partners in bringing this forward, but no timeline other than 'this year' is set.

Please note that while users are able to program the Arbotix-Pro, only the CM-730 compatible firmware and ROS firmware will be officially supported. Any custom firmware is up to the users.

I will be happy to put effort into the ROS port if needed once I receive my HR-OS5. I spend most of my robotic life these days in ROS world.

KevinO

03-16-2015, 05:41 PM

I will be happy to put effort into the ROS port if needed once I receive my HR-OS5. I spend most of my robotic life these days in ROS world.

What kind of robots do you have bstag? I have Golem, working on MoveIt and path planning atm.

bstag

03-17-2015, 08:23 AM

What kind of robots do you have bstag? I have Golem, working on MoveIt and path planning atm.

For using a arobotix with ros I have a turtlebot2 with a custom done Turtlebot arm on top.(https://plus.google.com/+BlackStag/posts/hGfyr8PrmC1)
I have a large outdoor robot 6 wheel (Jrover) using vex pro controller and ros serial. (http://www.dfrobot.com/community/?p=4026)
I have a couple more custom base ones that use various arm boards for testing.

vehemens

03-19-2015, 12:16 AM

The fact that the Arbotix Pro will be a CM-730 compatible device available for sale outside a 4-digit ($1100 when I last checked) electronics kit with a main processing board so laughably obsolete as to be worthless (still not as bad as the RoBoard which lacks i686 compatibility).

The kit price is a bit steep for what you get. Any idea of the make and model of the main processing board that's being used in the ROBOTIS-OP 2.0 (i.e. was DARwIn-OP 2.0)?

tician

03-19-2015, 12:56 AM

The kit price is a bit steep for what you get. Any idea of the make and model of the main processing board that's being used in the ROBOTIS-OP 2.0 (i.e. was DARwIn-OP 2.0)?

Did not know they were bothering to upgrade it, but all the relevant specs are on their product page. (http://en.robotis.com/index/product.php?cate_code=111310) There are a few errors in the comparison table as the old fit-pc2i does have gigabit ethernet and the wifi is only limited to 802.11g by the crap drivers of the default ubuntu 10.04 install. The wifi module is fully capable of 802.11n after upgrading the OS. They don't say much about the CM-740, but it does not look like it actually 'improved' so much as simply rearranged to fit the new processor board as it appears to still use two inertial ICs instead of a cheap all-in-one sensor.

edit: if the above seems angry and/or annoyed, it is partly because we lost the third dehumidifier in ~8 years a couple days ago. How can it possibly be so damn difficult to make a dehumidifier that will not puke its refrigerant within 2~4 years of purchase? Had a 'dumb' dehumidifier that lasted somewhere around a decade before the bucket cracked and several more years before the control board finally crapped out. The Haier lasted little more than a year before it dumped its refrigerant. The first LG lasted less than 2 years before the humidity sensor crapped out and the control board would not run without it. The extended warranty replacement LG lasted maybe 3 years before it developed what I expect was a pinhole leak in a solder joint somewhere and continued limping along for a few months before it suffered a catastrophic rupture a couple days ago. Basement is still filled with the horrid stink of refrigerant ~3 days later and need to set up a fan and plastic sheeting to flush it out of the house; sorry earth.

jwatte

03-19-2015, 11:38 AM

How can it possibly be so damn difficult to make a dehumidifier that will not puke its refrigerant within 2~4 years of purchase?

Because warranties are 1 year.

Welcome to the American market, where everyone buys on purchase price alone and quality is a race to the bottom!

vehemens

03-21-2015, 10:06 PM

Had to search a bit, but the ROBOTIS-OP 2.0 mother board is an AAEON PICO-CV01 without the VGA connector.

vehemens

03-21-2015, 10:11 PM

Getting back to ROS, I did find some information on DARwIn-OP simulations using Gazebo and ROS (http://www.generationrobots.com/en/content/83-carry-out-simulations-and-make-your-darwin-op-walk-with-gazebo-and-ros) a while back but haven't had a chance to try it myself.

vehemens

03-30-2015, 07:01 PM

Forgot to mention there's also NimbRo ROS (https://github.com/NimbRo/nimbro-op-ros) for those with bipeds.

calmur

10-31-2016, 01:35 PM

ROS support now becomes HROS.
http://www.ros.org/news/2016/10/hardware-robot-operating-system-h-ros.html

I think that's good news for those looking for simple plugging of robot components together to get quickly to their field of interest.