Comments on: Doesn’t it seem amazing that it took National this long to play the ‘prison labour’ card?https://dimpost.wordpress.com/2013/01/30/doesnt-it-seem-amazing-that-it-took-national-this-long-to-play-the-prison-labour-card/
It is difficult not to write satire - JuvenalTue, 31 Mar 2015 08:43:02 +0000hourly1http://wordpress.com/By: Gregor Whttps://dimpost.wordpress.com/2013/01/30/doesnt-it-seem-amazing-that-it-took-national-this-long-to-play-the-prison-labour-card/#comment-84600
Thu, 07 Feb 2013 23:32:03 +0000http://dimpost.wordpress.com/?p=14106#comment-84600Dan = Molly Bloom.
]]>By: Danhttps://dimpost.wordpress.com/2013/01/30/doesnt-it-seem-amazing-that-it-took-national-this-long-to-play-the-prison-labour-card/#comment-84599
Thu, 07 Feb 2013 23:13:00 +0000http://dimpost.wordpress.com/?p=14106#comment-84599I like this scheme because it will give prisoners money when they leave prison so they can begin a life that has less of a chance of reoffending than if they did not do the work in prison and earn this money.
]]>By: akhttps://dimpost.wordpress.com/2013/01/30/doesnt-it-seem-amazing-that-it-took-national-this-long-to-play-the-prison-labour-card/#comment-83657
Fri, 01 Feb 2013 07:58:58 +0000http://dimpost.wordpress.com/?p=14106#comment-83657Jews, gays, catholics, women, cripples, Maori, beneficiaries, health “bureaucrats”, councils, teachers…..yep, criminals haven’t been used yet Prime Miinister!.

Bugger all those others for winning, Judith might be our last.

Councils could be a big mistake but John. Eating our own Pete Georgeified base. Back off? ok.

That is, Key’s version is closer to the UN’s position of “All prisoners shall be required to work”.

The UN recognises, even if you don’t, that its in the interests of prisoners and society to apply some degree of coercion to force them to work to improve the chances of reintegration into society after prison, reduce re-offending and develop skills and work habits. I accept this may only work for a significant minority of prisoners but it does result in fewer victims and less costs to the tax payer.

JC

]]>By: bobhttps://dimpost.wordpress.com/2013/01/30/doesnt-it-seem-amazing-that-it-took-national-this-long-to-play-the-prison-labour-card/#comment-83635
Fri, 01 Feb 2013 01:28:20 +0000http://dimpost.wordpress.com/?p=14106#comment-83635Conrad – yes, but prisoners have very low literacy, numeracy, usable skill sets, and a tendency to criminal activity. All this makes the job of employing criminals far, far harder than organising work for the unemployed. Of course there are those on the dole with similar problems, but only a fraction of those in jail with such problems.

JC – except, there is a world of difference between what you show is currently being run in prisons and what Key announced to the House. The current scheme is clearly voluntary (uptake of about half of prisoners), whereas Key wanted compulsory. Etc, etc. But yes, there are the same concerns under Labour’s prison labour scheme – the need to not undermine outside jobs, etc.

There is a huge difference between offering prisoners a chance to educate themselves, train and get into the habit of working while still in jail (without undercutting outside firms), and forcing prisoners to work for a tiny fraction of the minimum wage, with highly coercive punishments if they refuse.

That you can’t or won’t see that speaks volumes about your moral compass.

The employment rate is already quite high at 51% and going up. From the Corrections website:

“Prisoner Employment Strategy

The Prisoner Employment Strategy (PES) was introduced in July 2006 with the goal of increasing the number of prisoners engaged in industry based employment or training from 40 to 60 percent of the prison population by 2010. At the time this represented an additional 1,900 prisoner placements in employment or training.

In February 2009, 51 percent of the prison population or 4,065 prisoners were engaged in some form of employment or training. This represents an increase of almost 1,000 prisoner employment and training positions since June 2006. Sixty six percent of sentenced prisoners are now active.

The Department is developing a new strategy to boost the number of prisoners learning industry-based skills by a further 1,000 prisoners by 2011. Part of that strategy will involve engaging with private companies about meaningful work and training for prisoners.

Initiatives are being developed to expand literacy and numeracy programmes so that more prisoners leave prison able to read, write and do maths better than when they arrived.”

This is why I say the new employment strategy is not that big a deal. If anything credit should be given to Labour for kicking up the percentages in 2006.

JC

]]>By: Conradhttps://dimpost.wordpress.com/2013/01/30/doesnt-it-seem-amazing-that-it-took-national-this-long-to-play-the-prison-labour-card/#comment-83359
Thu, 31 Jan 2013 01:43:10 +0000http://dimpost.wordpress.com/?p=14106#comment-83359Except there are roughly 9,000 prisoners (including those on remand) compared to about 160,000 on the unemployment benefit.
]]>By: bobhttps://dimpost.wordpress.com/2013/01/30/doesnt-it-seem-amazing-that-it-took-national-this-long-to-play-the-prison-labour-card/#comment-83352
Thu, 31 Jan 2013 00:34:26 +0000http://dimpost.wordpress.com/?p=14106#comment-83352@ JC – Thanks for that. Of course, (2) requiring prisoners to work would mean so much more if the government actually adhered to all the rest eh? Especially stuff like not undermining outside workers jobs, and not letting private companies make profits of prison slaves, hmmm?

But actually, this is a fundamental ideological watershed. If Key & National claim the state (ie Corrections Dept) is capable of finding and organising every week enough work to keep thousands of prisoners employed full time, then they have no excuse not to do the same for all the unemployed Kiwis, right? And if the Labour Dept (sorry, Ministry of BIE) and Social Development claim they can’t manage all that, hand the job to Corrections, who clearly (claim they) can.

So, rock up to your WINZ office, pick or get assigned a 40 hour a week job, pickup your work uniform and gear and get to it. Paycheck from Paula every fortnight. Pay of course must be minimum wage or better, with mandatory overtime if they want evenings, weekend or more than 40 hours a week. That way they won’t be undercutting the free market paragons.

Jobs for all has finally arrived! Not the legacy Key was looking to leave, but hey….. Another ideological blockade torn down :)

Here’s the UN minimum rules on work by prisoners, note that “2” says all prisoners should be required to work.

Work

71. (1) Prison labour must not be of an afflictive nature.

(2) All prisoners under sentence shall be required to work, subject to their physical and mental fitness as determined by the medical officer.

(3) Sufficient work of a useful nature shall be provided to keep prisoners actively employed for a normal working day.

(4) So far as possible the work provided shall be such as will maintain or increase the prisoners, ability to earn an honest living after release.

(5) Vocational training in useful trades shall be provided for prisoners able to profit thereby and especially for young prisoners.

(6) Within the limits compatible with proper vocational selection and with the requirements of institutional administration and discipline, the prisoners shall be able to choose the type of work they wish to perform.

72. (1) The organization and methods of work in the institutions shall resemble as closely as possible those of similar work outside institutions, so as to prepare prisoners for the conditions of normal occupational life.

(2) The interests of the prisoners and of their vocational training, however, must not be subordinated to the purpose of making a financial profit from an industry in the institution.

73. (1) Preferably institutional industries and farms should be operated directly by the administration and not by private contractors.

(2) Where prisoners are employed in work not controlled by the administration, they shall always be under the supervision of the institution’s personnel. Unless the work is for other departments of the government the full normal wages for such work shall be paid to the administration by the persons to whom the labour is supplied, account being taken of the output of the prisoners.

74. (1) The precautions laid down to protect the safety and health of free workmen shall be equally observed in institutions.

(2) Provision shall be made to indemnify prisoners against industrial injury, including occupational disease, on terms not less favourable than those extended by law to free workmen.

75. (1) The maximum daily and weekly working hours of the prisoners shall be fixed by law or by administrative regulation, taking into account local rules or custom in regard to the employment of free workmen.

(2) The hours so fixed shall leave one rest day a week and sufficient time for education and other activities required as part of the treatment and rehabilitation of the prisoners.

76. (1) There shall be a system of equitable remuneration of the work of prisoners.

(2) Under the system prisoners shall be allowed to spend at least a part of their earnings on approved articles for their own use and to send a part of their earnings to their family.

(3) The system should also provide that a part of the earnings should be set aside by the administration so as to constitute a savings fund to be handed over to the prisoner on his release.