Yinepi

tl;dr; the entire idea of a racist protag falls at the first hurdle and you're craycray if you think it could work

Then I'm the craziest human being to ever exist then.

You can't "explore" a racist protagonist either, racism is plain and simple wrong and we all know why, so you can't explore something or attempt to justify the characters beliefs when every possible explanation you could possibly give is wrong and the player knows it. All Rockstar would be doing is beating players with a stick with "you're playing a racist" written on the side.

You're trying to make a subjective be objective. Wrong and right is a fabrication of our perception of reality and the morals we're told to uphold. Their is no definite wrong here, otherwise racism wouldn't exist. A racist would not know why it is "wrong" as in their view of reality it is correct. The world is not black and white.

If a person honestly wants to get offended over racism in an adult video game, a game which seemingly enjoys employing the usage of "nigga" in almost every sentence, then that person needs to do introspection and get to the root of why that is. It isn't the world's fault you (impersonal you) get offended at everything, but only your own. Expression of creativity and its subsequent mediums shouldn't be held restricted because of other peoples perception of reality and their thin skin.

So, you know, Rockstar would simply condoning racism in their video games in that aspect.

Let me get this straight so I can become less crazy. It is not okay, in your subjective viewpoint, for Rockstar to seemingly promote racism but it is okay to promote murder, theft and sexism?

Piggsy pls

tl;dr; the entire idea of a racist protag falls at the first hurdle and you're craycray if you think it could work

Then I'm the craziest human being to ever exist then.

You can't "explore" a racist protagonist either, racism is plain and simple wrong and we all know why, so you can't explore something or attempt to justify the characters beliefs when every possible explanation you could possibly give is wrong and the player knows it. All Rockstar would be doing is beating players with a stick with "you're playing a racist" written on the side.

You're trying to make a subjective be objective. Wrong and right is a fabrication of our perception of reality and the morals we're told to uphold. Their is no definite wrong here, otherwise racism wouldn't exist. A racist would not know why it is "wrong" as in their view of reality it is correct. The world is not black and white.

If a person honestly wants to get offended over racism in an adult video game, a game which seemingly enjoys employing the usage of "nigga" in almost every sentence, then that person needs to do introspection and get to the root of why that is. It isn't the world's fault you (impersonal you) get offended at everything, but only your own. Expression of creativity and its subsequent mediums shouldn't be held restricted because of other peoples perception of reality and their thin skin.

So, you know, Rockstar would simply condoning racism in their video games in that aspect.

Let me get this straight so I can become less crazy. It is not okay, in your subjective viewpoint, for Rockstar to seemingly promote racism but it is okay to promote murder, theft and sexism?

That's hypocritical attitude and an undue double standard.

Using the "stop getting offended" schtick isn't gonna work here. People generally prefer to play as protagonists who they can identify with, the only person who would identify with a racist protagonist is another racist, and even then, that also depends on who the character is and who he hates (is a he black guy who hates whites? A Hispanic who hates Asians?). That's an incredibly small demographcic to appeal to.

Also, if right and wrong are completely subjective concepts, what's the point of exploring racism at all? You said earlier that GTA can help the public combat racism. Why combat it if, according to you, it's not inherently wrong? We don't need to get into the mind of a racist to understand them, they're not complex individuals.

Honest question here, would you want to play a protagonist who rapes kids? I mean, the game can delve into why he does what he does, and morality is subjective, so why not, right?

The problem with ideas like this is that they often come across as being edgy for the sake of it. Being shocking and offensive for the sake of it isn't artistic, it's a lazy way of garnering controversy and attention. Just like the whole torture mission in GTA V. I didn't find it personally offensive but there was no point to that being in the game. You're giving Rockstar's writing skills way too much credit.

EpicnessInABox

Didn't R* get a bunch of sh*t about Vice City, due to all the hate towards Haitians/Cubans? Sure, it wasn't a protagonist, but if I remember correctly they still had to re-write the script due to lawsuits.

Yinepi

You said earlier that GTA can help the public combat racism. Why combat it if, according to you, it's not inherently wrong?

Way to shove words in my mouth. You like doing that don't you?

I had never once said it wasn't inherently wrong, nor did I ever was say it was inhertently right. I essentially said it's a moral grey area and in the perspective of that of a racist it would seem right, not that I personally feel it's right. Learn to read.

Honest question here, would you want to play a protagonist who rapes kids? I mean, the game can delve into why he does what he does, and morality is subjective, so why not, right?

Would I personally want to? I would if the game explored why the protagonist did/does it. Go into the mental state and give me an understanding of what lead them to do it. Perhaps this hypothetical protagonist suffered abuse from their parents for something. But GTA has yet to even feature children in a title so the comparison doesn't hold much merit. But alas, I'm not good with understanding what makes a good and entertaining story anyway apparently.

You're giving Rockstar's writing skills way too much credit.

That's hilarious. If you read many of my posts on this site you'd know I'm a big critic of their writing. But even with my critique, I still can understand that Rockstar has the potential to write well thought out stories if they put their effort into it. A racist protagonist would certainly be a good challenge for them, but one that isn't entirely implausible to do.

Piggsy pls

You said earlier that GTA can help the public combat racism. Why combat it if, according to you, it's not inherently wrong?

Way to shove words in my mouth. You like doing that don't you?

I had never once said it wasn't inherently wrong, nor did I ever was say it was inhertently right. I essentially said it's a moral grey area and in the perspective of that of a racist it would seem right, not that I personally feel it's right. Learn to read.

Honest question here, would you want to play a protagonist who rapes kids? I mean, the game can delve into why he does what he does, and morality is subjective, so why not, right?

Would I personally want to? I would if the game explored why the protagonist did/does it. Go into the mental state and give me an understanding of what lead them to do it. Perhaps this hypothetical protagonist suffered abuse from their parents for something. But GTA has yet to even feature children in a title so the comparison doesn't hold much merit. But alas, I'm not good with understanding what makes a good and entertaining story anyway apparently.

You're giving Rockstar's writing skills way too much credit.

That's hilarious. If you read many of my posts on this site you'd know I'm a big critic of their writing. But even with my critique, I still can understand that Rockstar has the potential to write well thought out stories if they put their effort into it. A racist protagonist would certainly be a good challenge for them, but one that isn't entirely implausible to do.

I feel people are really not seeing the bigger picture.

(Posting on a phone so I'm doing this in bullets)

1. If it's a morally grey area then that implies there is no clear consensus on whether it's right or wrong, you basically repeated what I said. I never insinuated that you think racism is inherently right. You're putting words in your own mouth here. In any case, I'll disagree with you on it being a morally grey area in the first place; racism is wrong, period. We don't need to see a GTA protagonist with those qualities who goes through a change for whatever reason to know that. A racist person in real life who plays through your story idea is still gonna be a racist afterwards. They have all the tools at their disposal to become educated on race and racism in the real world and they choose not to, a game is not gonna change them. If anything, it'll only further legitimize their own beliefs to them.

2. Fair enough, but again, why bother with all this? Just to make a protagonist as unlikable as possible and then give them a sob story that doesn't make them any less unlikable? Wasn't Trevor already enough? Whether it's a pedo or a racist, it's the same sh*t. I'm not saying a good story can't be made out of your idea, but I am saying it's not right for GTA. The last thing I want to see is the series delve any further into cringey edgelord territory than it already has, for the sake of being "cool' and non-PC, and knowing Rockstar, that's exactly how it'll come off.

3. If you have such faith in Rockstar's writing ability then fine, but again, I stand by my point that making a racist protagonist is not a good idea for a game like GTA. GTA has always been a parody of American society centered on crime, I see no reason for it to become something else. Maybe if they made a new IP based entirely around racism and challenging it I could be on board, but I don't have the same faith in their writing, so we'll have to agree to disagree there.

People can see the bigger picture but that does not mean the series needs to go there.

If it's a morally grey area then that implies there is no clear consensus on whether it's right or wrong, you basically repeated what I said. I never insinuated that you think racism is inherently right. You're putting words in your own mouth here.

Official General

tl;dr; the entire idea of a racist protag falls at the first hurdle and you're craycray if you think it could work

Then I'm the craziest human being to ever exist then.

You can't "explore" a racist protagonist either, racism is plain and simple wrong and we all know why, so you can't explore something or attempt to justify the characters beliefs when every possible explanation you could possibly give is wrong and the player knows it. All Rockstar would be doing is beating players with a stick with "you're playing a racist" written on the side.

You're trying to make a subjective be objective. Wrong and right is a fabrication of our perception of reality and the morals we're told to uphold. Their is no definite wrong here, otherwise racism wouldn't exist. A racist would not know why it is "wrong" as in their view of reality it is correct. The world is not black and white.

If a person honestly wants to get offended over racism in an adult video game, a game which seemingly enjoys employing the usage of "nigga" in almost every sentence, then that person needs to do introspection and get to the root of why that is. It isn't the world's fault you (impersonal you) get offended at everything, but only your own. Expression of creativity and its subsequent mediums shouldn't be held restricted because of other peoples perception of reality and their thin skin.

So, you know, Rockstar would simply condoning racism in their video games in that aspect.

Let me get this straight so I can become less crazy. It is not okay, in your subjective viewpoint, for Rockstar to seemingly promote racism but it is okay to promote murder, theft and sexism?

That's hypocritical attitude and an undue double standard.

Using the "stop getting offended" schtick isn't gonna work here. People generally prefer to play as protagonists who they can identify with, the only person who would identify with a racist protagonist is another racist, and even then, that also depends on who the character is and who he hates (is a he black guy who hates whites? A Hispanic who hates Asians?). That's an incredibly small demographcic to appeal to.

Also, if right and wrong are completely subjective concepts, what's the point of exploring racism at all? You said earlier that GTA can help the public combat racism. Why combat it if, according to you, it's not inherently wrong? We don't need to get into the mind of a racist to understand them, they're not complex individuals.

Honest question here, would you want to play a protagonist who rapes kids? I mean, the game can delve into why he does what he does, and morality is subjective, so why not, right?

The problem with ideas like this is that they often come across as being edgy for the sake of it. Being shocking and offensive for the sake of it isn't artistic, it's a lazy way of garnering controversy and attention. Just like the whole torture mission in GTA V. I didn't find it personally offensive but there was no point to that being in the game. You're giving Rockstar's writing skills way too much credit.