well I'm sure Jon will be ready to battle, so let's get a stroker out there!

That will probably never happen I think RD sport tells them not to run their cars or something... All we'll ever see is Dynosheets and charts. that 60-130 time posted by PG vs DLSJ5 was lookin a lil weak sauce hopefully with the extra power from his new tune he can finally top a Bolt on DCT car. Which would be the least it could do for $30k

I've got no quarrel with you my man, you are a good guy and everyone knows it.

It was time for a reality check as the BS was getting a bit thick.

That's cool. Not everyone has the same points of view. Let keep it civilaized as I want the thread to remain open so that people can confirm my results I posted on page 6 about my car, that Jon calls "Dreams". The people that witnessed it, are great people, but I only know them from 2 local meets from 3-4 mothns ago, that I have only seen is such meets. There would be no reason for them to lie for me.

I wont PM any of them, Jon can do that. Tell them to post what they saw...lets see if you are a stand up guy.

That's cool. Not everyone has the same points of view. Let keep it civilaized as I want the thread to remain open so that people can confirm my results I posted on page 6 about my car, that Jon calls "Dreams". The people that witnessed it, are great people, but I only know them from 2 local meets from 3-4 mothns ago, that I have only seen is such meets. There would be no reason for them to lie for me.

Your dyno numbers are accurate and what they should be, at the minumum. Probably could and would have been better with more tuning. Nice NA power, but, not in the same league as booster power, just the way it is.

However, some people need to keep in mind the Dinan stroker has an extra mm of bore vs. the rdsport, something for stroker people to consider

If there were anything new to report that hasn't already appeared many times in the forums, I'd be happy to disclose it. Basically, I got the same deal everybody else did. Nothing more, nothing less. I even did a lot of the work on the project, and got nothing for it (nor wanted anything for it).

When I get some time, I'll post the latest results. I'm sure we all can't wait for Jon's spin on it when I do post them.

Just because you haven't made any money yet doesn't mean you don't or didn't have a commission deal in place. So did you cancel the commission deal you had -- or is it still active?

I dont care about Dynos bro show me a timeslip or nothing. And I don't wanna hear fables like JMD over there or your 7 car length pull on a imaginary F430. Lets just say I make as much money as you do off RD Sport fair enough?

I dont care about Dynos bro show me a timeslip or nothing. And I don't wanna hear fables like JMD over there or your 7 car length pull on a imaginary F430. Lets just say I make as much money as you do off RD Sport fair enough?

First time I have ever been impressed by one of your posts, well said, +1.

Here's what I've noticed watching this thread. One group recommends SC and the other group recommends Stroker. The SC group seems to be mostly limited to the guys who own it. Whereas it seems like everybody else wishes they owned the stroker. The latter group seems to be much larger representation in this thread.

There is no doubt the stroker is expensive; and equally no doubt that the SC kit is FAR more bang for the buck. So if you're actually serious that you would consider either, then I would recommend you to drive both and then make a decision. The last guy who did that...chose the stroker and his motor is being built as we speak. He obviously saw something in the stroker that he liked better than the SC kit.

PM me if you have any more questions about the stroker, or want to take a test drive.

They wanna act as if its nothing because now they are stuck with $15K G-Power S/C'er that they do not want to put back on their cars. One of them is selling his G-Power S/C, parting out his car, and his car is not even back running yet! But they highly recomemded it for everyone else And the dyno tightie posted on his for S/C sale thread is not even his! Its Technik's. Nothing personal tightie but thats dirty.

Who said I'm parting out my car? That was a feeler thread.

I am selling my Gpower kit but for other reasons. I'm going a different direction with my car and that kit does not have enough boost for what I'm going to do. I'm sick of all the bullshit assumptions people make over this stupid forum.

The dyno I posted is the same kit I'm selling with the new tune. The guy who posted the dyno runs Gpower. I didn't do anything dirty. It's the new tune, same kit. I'm a honest person and I find it pretty crazy that you would think I would lie to someone to make a quick buck, I was raised better then that. If anything, I get fucked over left and right for being so nice to people. That's my problem, not yours.

I don't know about you, but I don't have anything to hide. I don't give a shit if someone wants to go buy a supercharger or go get a stroker kit. At the end of the day, I don't gain anything from it. It doesn't make a difference in my life. It's just a damn car, I do this as a hobby. I'm just a car enthusiast.

My kit will sell, someone that has brains will know that hardware is fine. The only problem I had was the tune, and Gpower developed a new tune already. You can even go get your own tune from local tuners, if you don't trust Gpower.

Your dyno numbers are accurate and what they should be, at the minumum. Probably could and would have been better with more tuning. Nice NA power, but, not in the same league as booster power, just the way it is.

However, some people need to keep in mind the Dinan stroker has an extra mm of bore vs. the rdsport, something for stroker people to consider

No one here said that a Stroker was faster than S/C'ed car. They have not been tested head to head on the straight line or at the track. Traction issues aside, the S/C'ed one should be ahead by some margin on a straight line since S/C'ed cars according to Dynos, put down about 60-70WHP and 30-40 WTQ more. On the track, who knows. Again, no tests have been done yet.

But thats all irrelevant, the main issue in this thread was reliability. Period. And its what I've addressed the whole time.
Not who's faster, but who is more reliable and will last longer, and regardless of the blown motors some seem to think its normal and okay in the F/I scene, the Super Chargers record on the S65 motor is bad so far. Sure, it could have been a completely isolated fuck up on G-Power's part, but the more the car owner messes with the tuning, the more chances that something will go wrong on a S/C car.

The nonesense about a bolt on M3 and Stroker being equal is ridiculous. Its like saying that an 435whp/340wtq stroker is just as fast as a 490whp/370whp S/C car. Its not, whats the difference in times on the E9x M3s? Yet to be known...depending on traction/tract/tires/weather/etc...

Check the Dyno data base, my car puts down 50+whp and 60+wtq more than the highest reading full bolt on M3 (dogears) on a Dynojet, SAE corr, same type of Dyno and corr used for my results when my car only had 2K on the new motor 8 months ago. Yet Jon says the performance is the same. You know how retarded that sounds?!

The OP doesnt seem to be short in cash, but is the 50-60 extra HP (w/ a S/C over a stroker) worth the potential for a blown motor, due to a bad tune or malfunction? Thats what this thread is about. People get their heads blown up with the 500whp S/C numbers but can it really be used efficiently? Niterider tuned his down to 480whp. due to his preference. Can it make more power, of course, but can it be efficiently used if there is no traction? Whats the point? 60-130mph runs only?

Since you guys are SO familiar with S/C companies for the E9X M3, which S/C companies give full engine warranty? How long?

I am selling my Gpower kit but for other reasons. I'm going a different direction with my car and that kit does not have enough boost for what I'm going to do. I'm sick of all the bullshit assumptions people make over this stupid forum.

The dyno I posted is the same kit I'm selling with the new tune. The guy who posted the dyno runs Gpower. I didn't do anything dirty. It's the new tune, same kit. I'm a honest person and I find it pretty crazy that you would think I would lie to someone to make a quick buck, I was raised better then that. If anything, I get fucked over left and right for being so nice to people. That's my problem, not yours.

I don't know about you, but I don't have anything to hide. I don't give a shit if someone wants to go buy a supercharger or go get a stroker kit. At the end of the day, I don't gain anything from it. It doesn't make a difference in my life. It's just a damn car, I do this as a hobby. I'm just a car enthusiast.

My kit will sell, someone that has brains will know that hardware is fine. The only problem I had was the tune, and Gpower developed a new tune already. You can even go get your own tune from local tuners, if you don't trust Gpower.

Good luck on the stroker sale.

Thanks tightie. As I said on the post, i was nothing personal, but what I posted is what I gathered from the F/S thread and thought I'd speak my mind. And If I did, maybe others did as well. So it'd be good to clear that up and show that was not your intent.
Mainly because the gains were not done on your car. I see your point but its like another stroker owner selling his car, he made less power than I, and he uses my higher results to sell his car. I'd put him out there too.

This thread stopped being about the OP a long time ago when shit started flying sideways.

Amen. Then you must feel the same way as I do about Jon's link to that IQ-degrading ESS thread. That tread and quoting from should be a case study in the lack of critical thinking.

Instead, I'll make you the same offer I've given dozens of other people. Please quote my posts to demonstrate how I've lacked objectivity or critical thinking with respect to stroker vs. SC kit (or even RD vs. Dinan). Don't come back empty handed like so many before you.

I am very interested in coming, and in fact will even be in SoCal next weekend. But I'll be at a family function in Simi Valley. Otherwise I would have loved to come.

Just curious, why nobody has mentioned what happened the last time Jon started this SC vs. stroker crap. I offered to come down that weekend and run, but it was the SoCal end that failed to come through. Then Jon starts this crap about RD Sport telling people not to run, and you don't say one word of BS against that. Funny how you seem to have a selective memory -- especially from a guy who registers a few hours ago, but claims to have been reading for quite a long time. I guess we know where your intellectual honesty lies.

Where do you get this stuff? Go ahead and quote from past threads where stroker guys have made any claims whatsoever about performance. I only see the loud mouth SC guys making any claims here. I know I've never been nearly as foolish to make any such claims. Hilarious that you should even bring this up.

No dude, you've been called out. Quote from it, or go play in a different sand box.

You're the guy being called out and hiding behind a new screen name. Why don't you tell everybody your other screen name?

I notice you didn't provide any examples to back that up either.

Agreed...very thick.

LOL. You don't care about dyno's but you're obsessed with misquoting them. Hilarious (and pathetic at the same time).

I guess you don't remember that thread very well. Go look it up next time before misquoting it.

You know I'll never disclose whose giving you the commission deal on the G-Power kit -- so you know you're safe challenging me on it. But everybody here should beware that you do have such a deal (or did) and aren't disclosing it.

LOL by all means go ahead you'll be proven wrong just like the last non-sense you made up about me remember the insurance fraud thing? Quit with the dyno's already run your car at Famoso or don't post anything else about your car cause dyno sheets get old. I'll even bring a driver for you or drive it myself if you can't drive it. And I would like to know when I didn't show up to run you that would be laugh of the century you must have offered after my car blew because that would have been the only thing stopping me brotha. Also you can run DLSJ5 with your new tune he's always around. Now show everyone ur lil dynosheet to redeem yourself. What did it make 446whp finally with an aftermarket tune you had to pay even more $$ for? I'm really starting to see the value now.

No one here said that a Stroker was faster than S/C'ed car. They have not been tested head to head on the straight line or at the track. Traction issues aside, the S/C'ed one should be ahead by some margin on a straight line since S/C'ed cars according to Dynos, put down about 60-70WHP and 30-40 WTQ more. On the track, who knows. Again, no tests have been done yet.

But thats all irrelevant, the main issue in this thread was reliability. Period. And its what I've addressed the whole time.
Not who's faster, but who is more reliable and will last longer, and regardless of the blown motors some seem to think its normal and okay in the F/I scene, the Super Chargers record on the S65 motor is bad so far. Sure, it could have been a completely isolated fuck up on G-Power's part, but the more the car owner messes with the tuning, the more chances that something will go wrong on a S/C car.

The nonesense about a bolt on M3 and Stroker being equal is ridiculous. Its like saying that an 435whp/340wtq stroker is just as fast as a 490whp/370whp S/C car. Its not, whats the difference in times on the E9x M3s? Yet to be known...depending on traction/tract/tires/weather/etc...

Check the Dyno data base, my car puts down 50+whp and 60+wtq more than the highest reading full bolt on M3 (dogears) on a Dynojet, SAE corr, same type of Dyno and corr used for my results when my car only had 2K on the new motor 8 months ago. Yet Jon says the performance is the same. You know how retarded that sounds?!

The OP doesnt seem to be short in cash, but is the 50-60 extra HP (w/ a S/C over a stroker) worth the potential for a blown motor, due to a bad tune or malfunction? Thats what this thread is about. People get their heads blown up with the 500whp S/C numbers but can it really be used efficiently? Niterider tuned his down to 480whp. due to his preference. Can it make more power, of course, but can it be efficiently used if there is no traction? Whats the point? 60-130mph runs only?

Since you guys are SO familiar with S/C companies for the E9X M3, which S/C companies give full engine warranty? How long?

Newsflash Dynos vary thats only half the story anyway. I've stomped a few cars that supposedly have 50whp more then me according to their dyno. And they werent' all that bad at shifting. I gurantee I'd walk all over your car if you were in Cali. At least PG might have a chance with his new tune and because his car weighs a few hundred pounds less then yours. I'm sure you're not that silly to actually believe your lil extra power is enough to walk a properly modded coupe or sedan. Either way there is no hope for your car so keep it moving and tell your stories to the grade school kids who might care. Shoulda bought a S/C and then you could tell stories like that and get a reaction.

Amen. Then you must feel the same way as I do about Jon's link to that IQ-degrading ESS thread. That tread and quoting from should be a case study in the lack of critical thinking.

Instead, I'll make you the same offer I've given dozens of other people. Please quote my posts to demonstrate how I've lacked objectivity or critical thinking with respect to stroker vs. SC kit (or even RD vs. Dinan). Don't come back empty handed like so many before you.

I am very interested in coming, and in fact will even be in SoCal next weekend. But I'll be at a family function in Simi Valley. Otherwise I would have loved to come.

Just curious, why nobody has mentioned what happened the last time Jon started this SC vs. stroker crap. I offered to come down that weekend and run, but it was the SoCal end that failed to come through. Then Jon starts this crap about RD Sport telling people not to run, and you don't say one word of BS against that. Funny how you seem to have a selective memory -- especially from a guy who registers a few hours ago, but claims to have been reading for quite a long time. I guess we know where your intellectual honesty lies.

Where do you get this stuff? Go ahead and quote from past threads where stroker guys have made any claims whatsoever about performance. I only see the loud mouth SC guys making any claims here. I know I've never been nearly as foolish to make any such claims. Hilarious that you should even bring this up.

No dude, you've been called out. Quote from it, or go play in a different sand box.

You're the guy being called out and hiding behind a new screen name. Why don't you tell everybody your other screen name?

I notice you didn't provide any examples to back that up either.

Agreed...very thick.

LOL. You don't care about dyno's but you're obsessed with misquoting them. Hilarious (and pathetic at the same time).

I guess you don't remember that thread very well. Go look it up next time before misquoting it.

You know I'll never disclose whose giving you the commission deal on the G-Power kit -- so you know you're safe challenging me on it. But everybody here should beware that you do have such a deal (or did) and aren't disclosing it.

Be careful, you don't want to bite off more than you can chew. Luckily, you can always ban, edit, and hide, I don't have the same luxury.

Lacked objectivity? Frequently, and you are hardly a good example of keeping your emotions in check or lacking bias. Well, I'm not really in the mood to do homework, but here we are:

Quote:

Originally Posted by PencilGeek

but I'm really curous how the extra weight of the SC cars will handle the road and slalom courses.

You never continue to remind us all of the "added weight" of the supercharger. Forget the fact that the weight added is ~40 pounds, as in, empty your windshield washer reservoir and you will not be able to tell the damn difference.

What you should be doing is telling everyone that tire compound, spring rates, dampening, and overall suspension geometry are far more important than an extra few pounds on the nose. So, a properly set up SC will flat out destroy you around a road course.

Quote:

Originally Posted by PencilGeek

]Yet you'd prefer the bolt-on supercharger placed on a motor that wasn't ever designed for it, with a compression ratio that's not made for forced induction, and producing torque that exceeds the specifications of the drive train. How ironic that -- in the name of reliability -- you would chose a performance adder that includes so many more points of failure than the method you oppose. Sorry, but that really does make me laugh.

Speaking of laughter, this post generates it in ample amounts. What is a compression ratio designed for forced induction? It isn't the compression ratio, it is the tuning. Did you neglect to mention that a high compression forced induction motor still has the excellent off boost characteristics? So, essentially, you get the best of both worlds? How about the fact you make more HP per psi of boost? Whoops, just slipped your mind. Or how about that that E46 M3's have already provided us with YEARS of examples of properly tuned forced induction with high compression?

Uh, PG, I'm not a super cool engineer and all but I do know how to use a calculator. According to your dyno and a 15% drivetrain loss, you are making 103.5 hp per liter. Where is your objectivity there? You are making, drum roll please, the exact same hp per liter as the motor stock. So, in actuality, the bolt on guys are making MORE hp per liter than you,

Quote:

Originally Posted by PencilGeek

I really don't have any ego that gets crushed when somebody has a faster car...my satisfaction comes from knowing I have the better car...more exclusive and unique.

Hmm, seems like you can't help taking shots at FI. If you are not interested in speed, what was the point of the whole thing? That F430 story was for what, you concerning your exclusivity? Because the F430 mops the floor with you in that regard. Yet you happened to say:

Quote:

I'll bet the Ferrari owner was wondering what had just happened

really? But he has all that exclusivity and his ride certainly is more unique. I think you pick and choose to apply these ideals when they suit you best.

Quote:

Originally Posted by PencilGeek

couldn't imagine adding another 150hp on top of that...and having something that will still be fun to drive.

Another subtle jab of objectivity Funny, I went for a ride in an SC M3 today. Very manageable, and how about things like R compounds? They do exist, and at freeway speeds and rolling starts, not even an issue. Maybe you should stop imagining what an SC is like and experience it? Then again, the experience might sour the stroker. I can understand your apprehension.

You question my intellectual honesty because I am a long time reader yet new poster? What is wrong with that exactly? Is there some natural tie to post count and honesty that I am missing?

I've been called out? I am straight up telling you, bring your car to the strip and line up next to me. You won't do it, you will never do it, because you don't have a snowballs chance in hell. This has nothing to do with loudmouth SC guys talking to the loudmouth stroker guy. What I want is for everyone to see just how big the performance gap is between the two. Once people see what the rest of us know, you will not be able to talk up your stroker.

Essentially, once you man up and actually face me, you will no longer have your stroker pride because I will take it from you. You are not willing to part with it as you have essentially tied your existence here to it and parting with it is an impossibility for you.

I will make it even easier on you. You name the time, the track, the place, whatever, and I will meet you there. We can use Vbox's, a stopwatch, or even a sun dial if you want. It won't matter, you don't have a chance.

I'm not sure where you got your information, or even your numbers. Frankly I don't care. I'm just glad you don't get to dictate what threads get started or put into the public domain.

You can try to bully and intimidate all you want. You can use your secret friends to get information and post it before others have had a chance. Then you can even try to spin it and frame it to your advantage. Then you can even ask your girlfriend to post again to protect you. But none of those things will help. At the end of the day, you will still have a fundamental misunderstanding of things as simple as that IQ-deadening ESS thread. And there's no amount of bullying, intimidation, girlfriends posting to protect you that will help correct that.

I am one of many people who still have a lot more knowledge of what's going on than is still being posted. I'm still only telling 1/10th of what I know.

Think of how many people are considering this kit -- or have already purchased this kit. They have a right to know that it has a very detrimental side-effect of blowing the motor. This isn't conjecture, this is -- as Jon Martin likes to say -- a FACT.

In that thread you go on to essentially talk down on Gpower and the people who got SC's with your subtle jabs. You did the exact same thing you are accusing Jonmartin of now, what objectivity?

I'm not sure where you got your information, or even your numbers. Frankly I don't care. I'm just glad you don't get to dictate what threads get started or put into the public domain.

You can try to bully and intimidate all you want. You can use your secret friends to get information and post it before others have had a chance. Then you can even try to spin it and frame it to your advantage. Then you can even ask your girlfriend to post again to protect you. But none of those things will help. At the end of the day, you will still have a fundamental misunderstanding of things as simple as that IQ-deadening ESS thread. And there's no amount of bullying, intimidation, girlfriends posting to protect you that will help correct that.

Oops did I say something that didn't concern me well shit how does it feel now? I probably got it from the same guy you get your 411 from. I like how you keep bringing up that one ESS thread as if it has shit to do with you running your car at Famoso or a 1/4mile track period quit changing the subject.

If you guys want, I can test them both out for you on my car and let you know which one I like better

Sorry, this was kind of a waste of a post.

__________________

Understeer is when you hit the wall with the front of the car and oversteer is when you hit the wall with the rear of the car. Horsepower is how fast you hit the wall, torque is how far you take the wall with you."

hey guys, i am sure i'm not the only one here...
this f***in thread has NOTHING TO DO anymore with the OP's question!!!!
the OP wanted to know mostly about reliability like it's been said before... and like it's been said before too, money is most likely not an issue... so maybe it would be great if some of you guys who seem to have experience / knowledge of either stroker or SC will stick to the facts to help the OP instead of "u said this / u said that" or " you dont wanna race 'cause u scared..."
holy sh** u guys, it sounds like a class of freakin' 10-y.o. !!!
i was hoping to learn some interesting stuff about both solutions but this whole thread became a waste because of all the stupid personal argument BS going on...
oh well, there are countless interesting threads on this forum, i'll just move on and try to get some good info somewhere else...
yeah just like Kyosho above that's probably another waste of a post, but someone had to
Cheers!

i may be wrong with the C63 vs a stroker... but the point was there.. it shouldn't take 28,000 dollars to beat a C63. the cars are in the same class and are direct competitors.

Definately let us all know how the drag thing goes. do you know any trap speeds for your car now? or trying to keep it secret? how about i throw out a number and you give me a winky smiley if i'm close

Well that is kind of misleading, because a GT500 stang will most likely beat a C63 that is much more expensive and donīt see many complaining about that. Maybe this is a bad example, but for sure the stan will KILL a Porsche Boxter and tear it a new ass, hahahaha, and I am sure we can find many examples of the same. These are not absolutes, we like cars for many, many reasons besides being fast and there are soooo many intangibles in this respect that things can be argued in any direction. Of course, a C63 and an M3 are in the same relative class and ought to be compared but again, one has some advantages over the other and it all depends which of these advantages you value most that will compel you to buy this or that. Point is, I donīt think is fair to say it takes 29K to get an M3 to be faster that a lightly moded C63. I donīt know about times, but the Stoker Club sport will have a better power to weight ratio than a moded C63 and doubt even a moded C63 will make it to 336 kph (though I donīt know this) and when it comes to the traditional "everything else", the RS46 will simply outclass any even moded C63.

This is all getting way out of control. The OP wants to know about a reliable performance upgrade for his car. Hands down a stroker option is the way to go. In previous post JonMartin admits FI limits the life expectancy of the stock motor as he well knows. But he is still fighting his argument in this thread.

And also for you guys across the pond its all about 1/4 mile BS. Just because a car is faster in a straight line doesn't mean its a better car. Run a NA S65 against a FI S65 with stock internals over a long period on a track and you'll see who will be in the pits overheating or encountering over issues.

If money isn't an issue then yes you are a retard if you want FI, especially on stock internals!

hey guys, i am sure i'm not the only one here...
this f***in thread has NOTHING TO DO anymore with the OP's question!!!!
the OP wanted to know mostly about reliability like it's been said before... and like it's been said before too, money is most likely not an issue... so maybe it would be great if some of you guys who seem to have experience / knowledge of either stroker or SC will stick to the facts to help the OP instead of "u said this / u said that" or " you dont wanna race 'cause u scared..."
holy sh** u guys, it sounds like a class of freakin' 10-y.o. !!!
i was hoping to learn some interesting stuff about both solutions but this whole thread became a waste because of all the stupid personal argument BS going on...
oh well, there are countless interesting threads on this forum, i'll just move on and try to get some good info somewhere else...
yeah just like Kyosho above that's probably another waste of a post, but someone had to
Cheers!

LOL you guys calm down calm down its not about which will make more power.

A super charger is going to make more power than the Stroker I understand that, but at what expense? So some of the engine tunning has gone bad with a few supercharger setups. The Strokers have been more reliable, but cost more and not as much gains at the top end.

My newest question is with some of the supercharger kits, they talk about a remap for the DCT ? With the recent DCT lag and all of the updates for the DCT, how is this related? Im not exactly sure how you "MAP" a DCT trans. Hopefully these maps for the trans are more reliable than the engine tunes.

I would be looking to go with a gintani setup and run 5psi. It might give me slightly more hp and the overall cost is about $6,000 less. That is the current pricing and numbers you guys should take into consideration. Of course I have already ordered an exhaust and high flow cats so that isnt much to argue over either haha.

__________________

Current Stable: Some Audi with a V10, Couple of BMW's, one F Car, and one P car. One lonely GT-R with all the Euros.