Originally posted by jinx880101
Firstly, no one is claiming this is 'magic'...we are merely exploring the mind and all it has to offer. Frequency has been proven to affect matter.
And thoughts are frequency. There is no denying that.

No. The word frequency has actual meaning. It means how frequently something happens, its rate; the number of times an event occurs per unit
time.

Frequency
1 : the fact or condition of occurring frequently
2 a : the number of times that a periodic function repeats the same sequence of values during a unit variation of the independent variable b : the
number, proportion, or percentage of items in a particular category in a set of data
3 : the number of repetitions of a periodic process in a unit of time: as a : the number of complete alternations per second of an alternating current
b : the number of complete oscillations per second of energy (as sound or electromagnetic radiation) in the form of waves

Thoughts are not frequency. Frequency is a property, not a substance. The frequency of thoughts would be how often you have them. I think the
association that you are trying to make is this: the neurons of the brain fire with a certain frequency, and the brain produces thought. The
connection between the electrochemical processes of the brain and thoughts is unclear. Correlations exist, but no one can identify a causal
relationship. This is part of the problem of consciousness.

Frequency is not something which exists independently. It itself does not effect matter, and thoughts are not frequency. Things have frequencies, it
is not that they are frequencies.

And what you are suggesting here is magic, in the sense that it allows someone to exert supernatural influence over physical reality.

If they are wrong then they are wrong, but you cannot provide proof that they are wrong...so until then, there is still possibility.

I can prove that they are wrong, because I can ask you to show me what you are talking about and you can't. Beyond that, no can prove that anything
is wrong or doesn't exist. I prove magic wrong by explaining how the world actually works using physics and science. If you are claiming that
something exists the burden of proof is on you.

It is impossible in principal to prove that something does not exist. This does not mean that we assume everything that we think of is real until we
are shown that it is not. You can't prove that the tooth fairy doesn't exist, but you don't believe in her.

I wish people could just have an open mind about stuff like this, it doesn't harm anyone, yet, the skeptics are so quick to take offense and jump on
their high horses. This is not hurting anybody, if anything it should help us understand how the world around us works. And what role we play
here...

I do have an open mind, and I'm not taking offence. I've looked into this stuff a lot. At some point though, I require something more than
anecdotal reports to back up the spectacular claims made about the power of psi. You are right that anything that helps us understand how the world
works is good. The reason that I even bother objecting at all is because this idea hurts our ability to understand the world. It is promoting a
fantasy that people want to believe. We as humans spend a tremendous amount of time and energy devloping an understanding of ourselves, the world,
and our relationship to it, which is agreeable to us. The belief that we have powers is agreeable to us, we want to believe it . . . I want to
believe it. It's just not born out by the evidence.

Failing to be able to tell the difference between reality and fantasy can only hurt us. People should not spend time and energy developing their
psychic powers, or trying to exert psychic influence, when they can be taking real effective action to achieve their goal. This is how you end up
with people relying on faith healing instead of going to the doctor, or spending their money on lottery tickets and hoping god is on their side.

Frequency or 'the silent hum' is what holds space and everything we know together... Thus, frequency holds matter in place, and if you tweak the
frequency, you affect the matter.

You have a browser, why don't you go and Google it, and do some research for yourself... I have provided information and links which you choose to
ignore.

Otherwise, read this blog...if you would like to gain some
understanding.

I understand that frequencies can have certain effects. You claimed that "thoughts are frequencies" and there was no denying it. I deny that. Please
cite a credible source to support your claim.

Thanks for the link but it's a case of someone using the effect seen in Chladni plates in order to shoehorn in some bizarre notions about "divine
star connections" and "consciousness of the cosmos", as well as to plug a David Icke video. I'm sorry, but using a physical scientific effect to
push mystical, metaphysical beliefs is simply preposterous.

Thought are not frequencies...but your brainwaves when thinking do have frequency which can be measured. But the fact that thoughts cause emotion
which is a change of your vibrational frequency, and can affect your life.

I don't get all this negativity around positive thinking....I mean really.

Just wanted to add this for you- montalk.net... take a good look at that site.
From the above link-

Everything is vibration. Think of what reading material “resonates” with you, what ideas “ring” true, which people have good or bad
“vibes,” or who is on the same “wavelength”. These are more than just metaphors, they are accurate ways of describing the vibratory aspect of
our reality. Resonance brings to mind cymatics, the study of wave motion. Vibration alone is just a set of numbers describing amplitude, frequency,
and phase. But when vibration is applied to an object, the waves reflect upon themselves, interfering to create standing waves with a unique geometric
arrangement. Cymatics is therefore the study of how sound converts into geometry and vice versa.

I apologize for misinterpreting the term 'frequency' I was obviously confusing it with a vibrational state... doesn't really change much though. My
point is still the same.

Thought are not frequencies...but your brainwaves when thinking do have frequency which can be measured. But the fact that thoughts cause emotion
which is a change of your vibrational frequency, and can affect your life.

I don't get all this negativity around positive thinking....I mean really.

[edit on 23/01/2010 by jinx880101]

Requiring citation and/or proof of unusual claims is not "negativity". As it turned out, requesting as such caused you to immediately state the
exact opposite of your original claim; hence, the positive value of such a request.

Brain waves can indeed be measured by their frequencies. And yes, thoughts affect emotion and arguably brain wave frequencies. However, it would be
the actions taken as a result of thoughts and emotions that would affect my life, not "my vibrational frequency".

Explore pseudoscience if you wish but in the end essentially everyone ensnared in it finds themselves parting with their cash whether it goes to the
"spiritual advisor", bookseller or drug dealer. And you often end up with a mind clogged with beliefs that run counter to actual science and physics
and politics, which can take a long time to undo. Skepticism should be the first order of business when exploring any "alternate claims" to
established facts, especially those relying on the mysteries of the sciences, i.e. quantum physics, to sell you their claims.

No one there is trying to sell you anything... They merely stating what they have observed from their research. All they are telling you is that
you are in fact creating reality as you go along.

Sorry but this is a faulty thought. Reality is already set in play all your doing is taking a role. If you were to not exist anymore, reality won't
stop being reality. It would continue on as if you did not exist, reality would not cease to exist.

Originally posted by traditionaldrummer
Those that believe that humans only use 10% of their brain probably are only using 10% of their brains. As stated earlier it is indeed a myth. I have
seen "What The Bleep" and found it to be the biggest let-down ever. It's what we should be very wary of: people using the mysteries of quantum
mechanics as a license for any bizarre claims they could dream up. And as far as Prof Stephen Braude's statement goes I'd have to strongly disagree
that "skepticism is fueled by ignorance". In fact, skepticism should be the first course of action against a guy who profits from selling
parapsychology books to people who most likely are ignorant. And just before it gets away, I'll go ahead and say that nobody, I mean nobody, can
"bend a spoon with their mind". We should be extremely wary of these pseudoscientific hucksters lest we find ourselves believing in whatever kinds
of nonsense they push our way.

At no point in your response do you state any facts. You only interject your own opinion. The OP stated some facts at least. The double slit
experiment proved scientifically that the observer does have something to do with reality as we know it. Show me some scientific evidence that shows
something you just said. PLEASE!!! As far as I can see your only posts are that of opinion and putting down other peoples ideas and facts. Why not
start posting some facts to show you know something else other then your own opinion??? Once agian I ask the question, how many gov debunkers are on
this site??? The more I read the more I notice.

Just wanted to add this for you- montalk.net... take a good look at that site.

Once again, it's another site using effects of Chladni plates in order to (ineffectively) validate mystical notions of "souls resonating with one
another" and other strange beliefs. I'm sorry but I find nothing of scientific substance in that thesis except for the brief review of Chladni plate
effects.

If you read my edit you will see that I misinterpreted the term 'frequency' but that does not change anything....

And in the second paragraph of your reply, you are agreeing with me....
You obviously have no interest in how this works... You have made your points, and quite frankly, I'm done replying to your posts. As they are not
adding much to the discussion, but just going over the same thing over & over again...

Unfortunately, I cannot give all the links on everything I have read regarding this matter, because I have been reading about this for quite a while,
and a lot of it is just stored in my head...

Forgive me for trying to make a positive impact on the world around me.

Originally posted by traditionaldrummer
Those that believe that humans only use 10% of their brain probably are only using 10% of their brains. As stated earlier it is indeed a myth. I have
seen "What The Bleep" and found it to be the biggest let-down ever. It's what we should be very wary of: people using the mysteries of quantum
mechanics as a license for any bizarre claims they could dream up. And as far as Prof Stephen Braude's statement goes I'd have to strongly disagree
that "skepticism is fueled by ignorance". In fact, skepticism should be the first course of action against a guy who profits from selling
parapsychology books to people who most likely are ignorant. And just before it gets away, I'll go ahead and say that nobody, I mean nobody, can
"bend a spoon with their mind". We should be extremely wary of these pseudoscientific hucksters lest we find ourselves believing in whatever kinds
of nonsense they push our way.

At no point in your response do you state any facts. You only interject your own opinion. The OP stated some facts at least. The double slit
experiment proved scientifically that the observer does have something to do with reality as we know it. Show me some scientific evidence that shows
something you just said. PLEASE!!! As far as I can see your only posts are that of opinion and putting down other peoples ideas and facts. Why not
start posting some facts to show you know something else other then your own opinion??? Once agian I ask the question, how many gov debunkers are on
this site??? The more I read the more I notice.

Indeed I injected my own opinion as I have nobody else's to inject. What are you requesting of me? That I prove that nobody can bend spoons with
their mind? That we should be wary of people who profit from selling materials to people based on unproven metaphysical claims?

And why is it that anybody stating an opinion that differs from their own on this site is so frequently chalked up to being a "government debunker"?
What an egocentric and paranoid conclusion.

If you read my edit you will see that I misinterpreted the term 'frequency' but that does not change anything....

And in the second paragraph of your reply, you are agreeing with me....
You obviously have no interest in how this works... You have made your points, and quite frankly, I'm done replying to your posts. As they are not
adding much to the discussion, but just going over the same thing over & over again...

Unfortunately, I cannot give all the links on everything I have read regarding this matter, because I have been reading about this for quite a while,
and a lot of it is just stored in my head...

Forgive me for trying to make a positive impact on the world around me.

If I'm requesting sources of your claims I am indeed interested. If you can't cite sources and you're very well-read on these claims you should be
able to explain yourself quite clearly, even under the scrutiny of due skepticism. If you're unable to do so, chalking up a skeptic to "just being
negative" or determining that you're simply not going to talk to them any further then it really doesn't bolster your arguments in any way. You
still must be able to back up your claims.

I dunno this sounds like more new age stuff, basically ancient Babylonian religion in a modern package.
There is one God and one way to God through Jesus Christ any of this other stuff maybe touch on similar ideas, but are not the way.

I at one time was somewhat into similar spiritual stuff but then realized it was wrong and will lead people astray. This is the way of occult and of
evil in warm loving spiritual sheeps clothing.

Originally posted by traditionaldrummer
Those that believe that humans only use 10% of their brain probably are only using 10% of their brains. As stated earlier it is indeed a myth. I have
seen "What The Bleep" and found it to be the biggest let-down ever. It's what we should be very wary of: people using the mysteries of quantum
mechanics as a license for any bizarre claims they could dream up. And as far as Prof Stephen Braude's statement goes I'd have to strongly disagree
that "skepticism is fueled by ignorance". In fact, skepticism should be the first course of action against a guy who profits from selling
parapsychology books to people who most likely are ignorant. And just before it gets away, I'll go ahead and say that nobody, I mean nobody, can
"bend a spoon with their mind". We should be extremely wary of these pseudoscientific hucksters lest we find ourselves believing in whatever kinds
of nonsense they push our way.

At no point in your response do you state any facts. You only interject your own opinion. The OP stated some facts at least. The double slit
experiment proved scientifically that the observer does have something to do with reality as we know it. Show me some scientific evidence that shows
something you just said. PLEASE!!! As far as I can see your only posts are that of opinion and putting down other peoples ideas and facts. Why not
start posting some facts to show you know something else other then your own opinion??? Once agian I ask the question, how many gov debunkers are on
this site??? The more I read the more I notice.

Indeed I injected my own opinion as I have nobody else's to inject. What are you requesting of me? That I prove that nobody can bend spoons with
their mind? That we should be wary of people who profit from selling materials to people based on unproven metaphysical claims?

And why is it that anybody stating an opinion that differs from their own on this site is so frequently chalked up to being a "government debunker"?
What an egocentric and paranoid conclusion.

If you are going to deem certain scientific fact as quackery, then show some facts to support your claim. Show me some scientific fact that says the
observer doesn't change things. Because I can show you the double slit experiment that proves it does. Not just carried out one time but several
several times. Of course everyone is entitled to their opinion, but to put down others for posting scientific evidence (in my opinion) is someone
using only 1% of their brain.

Great thread, about time someone thought outside of the box. I will preface this by saying I am 70 old and truly don't give a crap if I am attacked,
for my reality is in the now and will not be effected by others. Also I am a retired teacher of phy. sci., bio and fine arts.

In the last several weeks I started to explore further my mind and picked up on the idea of psi wheels some younguns are messing with. No, I was not
taken in by all I saw, nor did I discard it. Rather, I saw this as an interesting way to see if in fact one could develop these powers of the mind.
I did and it works. I explored a few level of quantum physics including vacuum quantum which may or may not fit, but then this truthfully is beyond my
training. I even looked into bio photons which could, or may hold some merit when close to the body, but then I can cause them to move when in the
far end of the home with walls between.

In the beginning I used proximal hands to cause a little movement and finally changed the wheels to aluminum which worked better. I view these as a
gauge to see if in fact the mind can project out or perhaps the life force that is not part of the body, I have no real answers here but loads of fun
questions. I have been all over the net and I find lots of programmed people denying possibilities with few open minds. A micro experiment on people
was done at my home the other day. Some women friends of my wife were over and I showed how it was done. What I got was a raised eyebrow and a look
from them which seemed to convey, how silly, he caused things to move by just looking at them and I am afraid this programming is rampant among most
of humanity.

In summery, I have been able to move several wheels at a time, particularly if they are close to me, but maintain that movement from further away. It
is harder to just will them to start from a distance but can be done. The problem with getting this or at least with an old fart, is you get what I
call tendentious of the brain, In other words an ongoing headache which could stop some people.

Now this last is really strange. Before you attack, realize this is one of the few posts that comes from the horses mouth and not about someone else.
My wife whom is not interested like the other women, tried this on several occasions and can do as well as I can and seems to do so just by living
with me. Now came her sister from up north and sat down and also did this right away. Not fair, I worked my proverbial ars off with pain to get
there.
Go to my posts on alienhub.com where the discussion is more detailed. Ok, out of here.

I wouldnt even bother with this drummer dude, he clearly has nothing better to do than sit back and look for a problem with everything that you
posted, let him slide, clearly he has no threads and doesnt know how to start one so, he chirps on everyone elses....

Deny Ignorance.... clearly ignorant, no respect for fellow ATS'ers

this thread makes a great deal of sense to me as i have seen and read about all the stuff you pretty much mention.

Originally posted by psy_smurf
I wouldnt even bother with this drummer dude, he clearly has nothing better to do than sit back and look for a problem with everything that you
posted, let him slide, clearly he has no threads and doesnt know how to start one so, he chirps on everyone elses....

Deny Ignorance.... clearly ignorant, no respect for fellow ATS'ers

this thread makies a great deal of sense to me as i have seen and read about all the stuff you pretty much mention.

Good luck with this one

Thanks for returning to the forum rather than sending me taunting private messages like you have been. Skepticism of fantastic claims and request for
citation on such is absolutely appropriate and shows no disrespect. Those making the claims may not like it but they need to stand by their
statements.

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