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Sometimes I get taken to task for spending too much time discussing vaccines. The thimersal and MMR hypotheses failed. Why keep discussing vaccines on what is primarily an autism focus site?

Well, for one thing, public health does involve us all. Just in general.
But there really is another level. Many autistics are more medically fragile than the average.

People die from influenza. Even in the relatively clean United States with its modern health care. People die. Amongst those are a disproportionate number of children with neurological disorders.

Below is a CDC press release on deaths from flu. Here for emphasis:

Of the 336 children (defined as people younger than 18 years) with information available on underlying medical conditions who were reported to have died from 2009 H1N1 flu-associated causes, 227 had one or more underlying health conditions. One hundred forty-six children (64 percent) had a neurologic disorder such as cerebral palsy, intellectual disability, or epilepsy. Of the children with neurologic disorders for whom information on vaccination status was available, only 21 (23 percent) had received the seasonal influenza vaccine and 2 (3 percent) were fully vaccinated for 2009 H1N1.

People and groups that spread misinformation about vaccines put everyone at risk and people with neurological conditions even more so.

They put my kid at risk. As is often discussed, some people don’t get immunity from vaccines. The only way I’ll know if my kid isn’t protected will be when an outbreak occurs.

I love the nurses in our local pediatric ward. But they dont want to see us again and I don’t want to see them again unless it is at a local Starbucks (in which case I pick up their tab. )

Children with neurologic disorders at high risk of death from flu
Health care and advocacy groups join to protect children most vulnerable to influenza

A disproportionately high number of children with neurologic disorders died from influenza-related complications during the 2009 H1N1 pandemic, according to a study by scientists with the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. The report in the journal Pediatrics underscores the importance of influenza vaccination to protect children with neurologic disorders. CDC is joining with the American Academy of Pediatrics, Families Fighting Flu and Family Voices to spread the message about the importance of influenza vaccination and treatment in these children.

The Pediatrics study looked at influenza-related deaths in children during the 2009 H1N1 pandemic based on data submitted to CDC from state and local health departments. The number of pediatric deaths associated with 2009 H1N1 virus infection reported to CDC during the pandemic was more than five times the median number of pediatric deaths that were reported in the five flu seasons prior to the pandemic. Sixty-eight percent of those deaths occurred in children with underlying medical conditions that increase the risk of serious flu complications.

Of the 336 children (defined as people younger than 18 years) with information available on underlying medical conditions who were reported to have died from 2009 H1N1 flu-associated causes, 227 had one or more underlying health conditions. One hundred forty-six children (64 percent) had a neurologic disorder such as cerebral palsy, intellectual disability, or epilepsy. Of the children with neurologic disorders for whom information on vaccination status was available, only 21 (23 percent) had received the seasonal influenza vaccine and 2 (3 percent) were fully vaccinated for 2009 H1N1.

“We’ve known for some time that certain neurologic conditions can put children at high risk for serious complications from influenza,” said Dr. Lyn Finelli, chief of the surveillance and outbreak response team in CDC’s Influenza Division. “However, the high percentage of pediatric deaths associated with neurologic disorders that occurred during the 2009 H1N1 pandemic was a somber reminder of the harm that flu can cause to children with neurologic and neurodevelopmental disorders.”

“Flu is particularly dangerous for people who may have trouble with muscle function, lung function or difficulty coughing, swallowing or clearing fluids from their airways,” said study coauthor and pediatrician Dr. Georgina Peacock. “These problems are sometimes experienced by children with neurologic disorders,” said Peacock, of CDC’s National Center on Birth Defects and Developmental Disabilities.

The most commonly reported complications for children with neurologic disorders in this study were influenza-associated pneumonia and acute respiratory distress syndrome (ARDS). Seventy-five percent of children with a neurologic condition who died from 2009 H1N1 influenza-related infection also had an additional high risk condition that increased their risk for influenza complications, such as a pulmonary disorder, metabolic disorder, heart disease or a chromosomal abnormality.

CDC is partnering with the American Academy of Pediatrics and influenza advocacy groups to help promote awareness about the importance of influenza prevention and treatment in these high risk children. Since the H1N1 pandemic, children with neurologic conditions continue to represent a disproportionate number of influenza-associated pediatric deaths. CDC, the American Academy of Pediatrics (AAP), Family Voices, and Families Fighting Flu recognize the need to communicate with care takers about the potential for severe outcomes in these children if they are infected with flu.

“Partnering with the American Academy of Pediatrics, influenza advocacy groups and family led-organizations CAN help prevent influenza in children at highest risk,” said CDC Director Dr. Thomas R. Frieden.

The partnering organizations are working to coordinate communication activities with their constituents, which include parents and caregivers, primary care clinicians, developmental pediatricians and neurologists in hopes to increase awareness about flu prevention and treatment in children with neurologic disorders.

“The American Academy of Pediatrics, Families Fighting Flu and Family Voices were all natural partners when we thought about how to reach as many key people as possible with this message,” Dr. Peacock adds. “The collaboration and energy around this effort has been fabulous.”

“Our network of physicians is committed to influenza prevention in all children, and especially in reducing complications in those children at higher risk for experiencing severe outcomes as a result of influenza-like illness,” says Robert W. Block, M.D., president of the AAP. “This coalition can more broadly engage the entire community of child caregivers to express how serious flu can be for these children. These efforts emphasize why the medical home is so important for children and youth with special health care needs.”

Family Voices is a national family-led organization supporting families and their children with special health care needs. Ruth Walden, a parent of a child with special needs and president of the Family Voices Board of Directors, says, “It’s frightening to think that flu can potentially lead to so many complications or even death. We’re pleased to see organizations working together to educate families and providers about the importance of prevention.”

Families Fighting Flu, an advocacy group dedicated to preventing influenza, has a long history of reaching out to families who’ve lost loved ones to flu. “Throughout the years we’ve seen firsthand how flu can affect these kids and their families’ lives. We understand that prevention is absolutely critical,” explains Laura Scott, executive director of Families Fighting Flu. “Working with other groups only expands our mission of keeping kids safe throughout the flu season.”

CDC recommends that everyone aged 6 months and older get an annual influenza vaccination, including people who are at high risk of developing serious complications. Flu vaccine is the best prevention method available. Antiviral drugs, which can treat flu illness, are a second line of defense against flu.

63 Responses to “Children with neurologic disorders at high risk of death from flu”

You just don’t get it do you Sully….The flu shot contains thimerosal (50% mercury) which is linked to neurological damage. You are the ones that are risking our kids by pushing this dangerous vaccine. We who do not vaccinate are not the danger …you are because you all want to force the poison needle on us and our kids. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12773696
Have you read the material Safety Data Sheet:CARCINOGENIC EFFECTS: Not available. MUTAGENIC EFFECTS: Mutagenic for mammalian somatic cells.
TERATOGENIC EFFECTS: Not available. DEVELOPMENTAL TOXICITY: Not available. The substance may be toxic to
kidneys, liver, spleen, bone marrow, central nervous system (CNS). Repeated or prolonged exposure to the substance can
produce target organs damage. Repeated exposure to a highly toxic material may produce general deterioration of health by
an accumulation in one or many human organs. You may have noticed that have not tested for cancer I wonder why.http://www.sciencelab.com/msds.php?msdsId=9925236
or Effects of Overexposure: Topical allergic dermatitis has been reported. Thimerosal contains
mercury. Mercury poisoning may occur and topical hypersensitivity reactions may be seen. Early signs
of mercury poisoning in adults are nervous system effects, including narrowing of the visual field and
numbness in the extremities. Exposure to mercury in utero and in children may cause mild to severe
mental retardation and mild to severe motor coordination impairment. Based on animal data, may be
irritating to the eyes. http://www.vaccine-tlc.org/docs/Thimerosal%20Material%20Safety%20Data%20Sheet.pdf

I do get it. I’ve read all your arguments over and over thought the years.none of them are new and none of them are valid.

This is an autism blog. People who attack vaccines often use autism as a hammer. As you have demonstrated so well, that attack fails when you have people knowledgeable about the subject involved.

You who do not vaccinate *are* in danger. That danger is lessened a great deal becausethe vast majority do vaccinate and in doing so offer you protection through herd immunity. Rather than acknowledge this you show them contempt.

You have abandoned the autism discussion and most of the vaccine discussion for a discussion of how thimerosal is toxic in high doses.

at least your true motivation is showing with comments like “force the poison needle on us”

Leaving aside the “poison needle” comment, it is you who are doing the forcing. You force me to take the time to correct misinformation you write.

Read the recent article on how children with neurological conditions are at greater risk of death from the flu. Recall that this is an autism blog and I am the parenting a child with multiple neurological conditions. Consider how your actions contribute to leaving children like mine vulnerable to the flu and the greater risk of death. Consider that my families like mine take the risks, however small, while yours does not. Yet your family is protected by us. And you benefit from our actions.

“You just don’t get it do you Sully….The flu shot contains thimerosal (50% mercury) which is linked to neurological damage.”

Flu shots given to pregnant women and young children in my state are thimerosal free.

Thimerosal is not linked to autism.

But that’s beside the point–a diversion on your part. Flu kills. It kills children like mine at a higher rate than typical children. Flu kills in the United States, with our good hygiene and first world medicine. Flu kills.

Oh for crying out loud Goldy, how many times do you need this explained to you? Some comments get caught up in the spam folder or longer comments held for moderation. I just had one myself so get over yourself. Frankly, given how tedious, boring and incorrect every single one of your posts have been, you should be grateful that anyone is even reading them.

Dr. Carey, could you provide citations to evidence that Thimerosal and MMR are failed hypotheses?

I am, meanwhile, preparing lists of citations to the literature of the past two years (1) on auditory system impairment in autism, and (2) growing recognition of the dangers of clamping the umbilical cord immediately at birth, and why this should be investigated as a possible cause of auditory system impairment in autism. These citations were demanded by at least two anonymous respondents, who berated me for citing evidence that they considered “too old” to be relevant for up-to-date understanding of autism. I will try to send these lists to Lina Perez at NIMH in time for consideration and discussion by the new IACC committee on basic and translations research at the conference call scheduled for September 7.

Lack of Association Between Measles-Mumps-Rubella Vaccination and Autism in Children: A Case-Control Study.
Budzyn D, et al.
Pediatr Infect Dis J. 2010 May;29(5):397-400.
Subjects: 96 children with autism, ages 2 to 15, as well as 192 children in a control group. For children diagnosed before a diagnosis of autism, the autism risk was lower in children who received MMR vaccine than in nonvaccinated children. A similar result was achieved for the single-antigen measles vaccine.

U.S. Court of Federal Claims decision in Omnibus Autism Proceeding
On Feb. 12, 2009, the “vaccine court” ruled in three test cases on the theory that MMR vaccine and the vaccine preservative thimerosal are linked to autism. The court found the scientific evidence is overwhelmingly contrary to this theory.http://www.uscfc.uscourts.gov/node/5026

Lack of Association between Measles Virus Vaccine and Autism with Enteropathy: A Case-Control Study.
Hornig M et al.
PLoS ONE 2008; 3(9): e3140 doi:10.1371/journal.pone.0003140
*Subjects: 25 children with autism and GI disturbances and 13 children with GI disturbances alone (controls)

Measles Vaccination and Antibody Response in Autism Spectrum Disorders.
Baird G et al.
Arch Dis Child 2008; 93(10):832-7.
Subjects: 98 vaccinated children aged 10-12 years in the UK with autism spectrum disorder (ASD); two control groups of similar age: 52 children with special educational needs but no ASD and 90 children in the typically developing group

Is There a ‘Regressive Phenotype’ of Autism Spectrum Disorder Associated with the Measles Mumps-Rubella Vaccine? ACPEA Study
Richler et al.
J Autism Dev Disord. 2006 Apr;36(3):299-316.
Subjects: A multi-site study of 351 children with Autism Spectrum Disorders (ASD) and 31 typically developing children used caregiver interviews to describe the children’s early acquisition and loss of social-communication milestones. No evidence that onset of autistic symptoms or of regression was related to measles, mumps and rubella vaccination.

No Effect of MMR Withdrawal on the Incidence of Autism: a Total Population Study.
Honda H, et al.
J Child Psychol Psychiatry. 2005 Jun;46(6):572-9.
Subjects: Study examined incidence of Autism Spectrum Disorders (ASD) to age 7 for children born between 1988 and 1996 in Yokohama, Japan. The measles, mumps and rubella (MMR) vaccination rate in Yokohama declined significantly in the birth cohorts of years 1988-92, and no MMR vaccines were administered in 1993 or thereafter. In contrast, cumulative incidence of ASD up to age 7 increased significantly in the birth cohorts of years 1988 through 1996 and most notably rose dramatically beginning with the birth cohort of 1993.

Age at First Measles-Mumps-Rubella Vaccination in Children with Autism and School-Matched Control Subjects: A Population-Based Study in Metropolitan Atlanta.
DeStefano F et al. Pediatrics 2004; 113(2): 259-66
*Subjects: 624 children with autism and 1,824 controls

No Evidence for Links Between Autism, MMR and Measles Virus.
Chen W, et al.
Psychol Med. 2004 Apr;34(3):543-53.
Subjects: Study compared 2,407 persons with autism born between 1959 and 1993; to 4,640 Down syndrome subjects born between 1966 and 1993. No increased risk of autism was found following exposures to wild measles and vaccinations with monovalent measles, and Urabe or Jeryl-Lynn variants of measles, mumps and rubella (MMR) vaccine.

Prevalence of Autism and Parentally Reported Triggers in a North East London Population.
Lingam R et al.
Arch Dis Child 2003; 88(8):666-70
*Subjects: 567 children with autistic spectrum disorder

Neurologic Disorders after Measles-Mumps-Rubella Vaccination.
Makela A et al.
Pediatrics 2002; 110:957-63
*Subjects: 535,544 children vaccinated between November 1982 and June 1986 in Finland

Relation of Childhood Gastrointestinal Disorders to Autism: Nested Case Control Study Using Data from the UK General Practice Research Database.
Black C et al.
BMJ 2002; 325:419-21
*Subjects: 96 children diagnosed with autism and 449 controls

Measles, Mumps, and Rubella Vaccination and Bowel Problems or Developmental Regression in Children with Autism: Population Study.
Taylor B et al.
BMJ 2002; 324(7334):393-6
*Subjects: 278 children with core autism and 195 with atypical autism

No Evidence for a New Variant of Measles-Mumps-Rubella-Induced Autism.
Fombonne E et al.
Pediatrics 2001;108(4):E58
*Subjects: 262 autistic children (pre- and post-MMR samples)

Measles-Mumps-Rubella and Other Measles-Containing Vaccines Do Not Increase the Risk for Inflammatory Bowel Disease: A Case-Control Study from the Vaccine Safety Datalink Project.
Davis RL et al.
Arch Pediatr Adolesc Med 2001;155(3):354-9
*Subjects: 155 persons with IBD with up to 5 controls each

Time Trends in Autism and in MMR Immunization Coverage in California.
Dales L et al.
JAMA 2001; 285(9):1183-5
*Subjects: Children born in 1980-94 who were enrolled in California kindergartens (survey samples of 600–1,900 children each year)

Mumps, Measles, and Rubella Vaccine and the Incidence of Autism Recorded by General Practitioners: A Time Trend Analysis.
Kaye JA et al.
BMJ 2001; 322:460-63
*Subjects: 305 children with autism

MMR and Autism: Further Evidence Against a Causal Association.
Farrington CP, et al.
Vaccine. 2001 Jun 14;19(27):3632-5.
Subjects: Data from an earlier measles, mumps and rubella (MMR) vaccine study (Taylor et al, 2000) were reanalyzed to test a second hypothesis. Results provide further evidence against a causal association between MMR vaccination and autism.

Thimerosal Exposure in Infants and Developmental Disorders: A Prospective Cohort Study in the United Kingdom Does Not Support a Causal Association
Heron J, Golding J, ALSPAC Study Team
Pediatrics, September 2004, Vol. 114(3):577-583

@ Goldy: The first article you linked to is authored by the father-son anti-vaccine tag team…Mark Geier and David Geier.

Haven’t you heard Goldy that Dr. Mark Geier was “disqualified” years ago as an expert witness in the Vaccine Court?

Haven’t you heard that recently Dr. Mark Geier has had his medical license revoked in most of the states where he was licensed, and is expected to lose his license in the few remaining states where he is licensed. He lost his license for the egregiously harmful procedures (chelation and chemical castration), that he subjected his young autistic patients to.

Haven’t you heard that David Geier faced charges of practicing medicine without a licensing (he only has an undergraduate degree). The state of Maryland found him guilty and he was fined $10,000 for practicing medicine without a license.

Both of the Geiers may be subject to criminal and civil charges for defrauding insurance companies and for the harms they inflicted on autistic youngsters.

Just go away Goldy. It is obvious you are as thick as a plank, are lacking in any basic science education and are obviously firmly anti-vaccine.

OBJECTIVE: The goal of this study was to describe reported influenza A (H1N1)pdm09 virus (pH1N1)-associated deaths in children with underlying neurologic disorders.

METHODS: The study compared demographic characteristics, clinical course, and location of death of pH1N1-associated deaths among children with and without underlying neurologic disorders reported to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.

RESULTS: Of 336 pH1N1-associated pediatric deaths with information on underlying conditions, 227 (68%) children had at least 1 underlying condition that conferred an increased risk of complications of influenza. Neurologic disorders were most frequently reported (146 of 227 [64%]), and, of those disorders, neurodevelopmental disorders such as cerebral palsy and intellectual disability were most common. Children with neurologic disorders were older (P = .02), had a significantly longer duration of illness from onset to death (P < .01), and were more likely to die in the hospital versus at home or in the emergency department (P < .01) compared with children without underlying medical conditions. Many children with neurologic disorders had additional risk factors for influenza-related complications, especially pulmonary disorders (48%). Children without underlying conditions were significantly more likely to have a positive result from a sterile-site bacterial culture than were those with an underlying neurologic disorder (P < .01).

CONCLUSIONS: Neurologic disorders were reported in nearly two-thirds of pH1N1-associated pediatric deaths with an underlying medical condition. Because of the potential for severe outcomes, children with underlying neurologic disorders should receive influenza vaccine and be treated early and aggressively if they develop influenza-like illness.

2011 – Do aluminum vaccine adjuvants contribute to the rising prevalence of autism?

Department of Ophthalmology and Visual Sciences, University of British Columbia

“….The application of the Hill’s criteria to these data indicates that the correlation between Aluminium in vaccines and Autism spectrum disorders may be causal. Because children represent a fraction of the population most at risk for complications following exposure to Al, a more rigorous evaluation of Al adjuvant safety seems warranted….”

“…Conjugate vaccines fundamentally change the manner in which the immune systems of infants and young children function by deviating their immune responses to the targeted carbohydrate antigens from a state of hypo-responsiveness to a robust B2 B cell mediated response. This period of hypo-responsiveness to carbohydrate antigens coincides with the intense myelination process in infants and young children, and conjugate vaccines may have disrupted evolutionary forces that favored early brain development over the need to protect infants and young children from capsular bacteria..”

2011 – A positive association found between autism prevalence and childhood vaccination uptake across the U.S. population.

“…Using regression analysis and controlling for family income and ethnicity, the relationship between the proportion of children who received the recommended vaccines by age 2 years and the prevalence of autism (AUT) or speech or language impairment (SLI) in each U.S. state from 2001 and 2007 was determined. A positive and statistically significant relationship was found: The higher the proportion of children receiving recommended vaccinations, the higher was the prevalence of AUT or SLI. A 1% increase in vaccination was associated with an additional 680 children having AUT or SLI. Neither parental behavior nor access to care affected the results, since vaccination proportions were not significantly related (statistically) to any other disability or to the number of pediatricians in a U.S. state. The results suggest that although mercury has been removed from many vaccines, other culprits may link vaccines to autism.

How about aluminium and/or the too early shift to a strong B2 B cell mediated response in babies?

These cocktails contain so many toxins that various autism-inducing mechanisms can be occurring in parallel.

“…Boys vaccinated as neonates had threefold greater odds for autism diagnosis compared to boys never vaccinated or vaccinated after the first month of life. Non-Hispanic white boys were 64% less likely to have autism diagnosis relative to nonwhite boys. Findings suggest that U.S. male neonates vaccinated with the hepatitis B vaccine prior to 1999 (from vaccination record) had a threefold higher risk for parental report of autism diagnosis compared to boys not vaccinated as neonates during that same time period. ..”

Making sense of epidemiological studies of young children exposed to thimerosal in vaccines.

“…RESULTS:

Information extracted from the studies done in the USA, the UK, and Italy is important in understanding the complex interplay of variables but insufficient to establish non-toxicity for infants and young children still receiving thimerosal-containing vaccines (TCV):

a) there is ambiguity in some studies reporting neurodevelopment outcomes that seem to depend on confounding variables;
b) the risk of neurotoxicity due to low doses of thimerosal is plausible at least for susceptible infants;
c) there is a need to address these issues in less developed countries still using TCV in pregnant mothers, newborns, and young children….”

Just a warning folks, putinreloaded has flooded another blog with pointless, nasty thread-derailing posts. putin’s remark to me on *that* blog this AM, was that I am a pharma shill and a greedy bastard.

I do believe that Putinreloaded has contributed in a non agressive and positive way to the discussion. I enjoyed it and I am certain others did as well. Any attempt to block him would turn this discussion into a farce and you would totally be regarded as a joke – unable to cope with strong opposing point of view. I do respect you for allowing my post to go through – although it was touch and go and took over 4 days. Discussion is healthy and cherry picking posts is an indicator that you do not consider your position strong enough.

I have to put up with a lot on this blog. I have to put up with people who have no connection to the autism communities who misuse autism as a way to attack public health.

I do not have to put up with AIDS denialists. They are disgusting and abhorrent. If you wish to carry on a conversation with such people, you are welcome to do so. There are many places on the web to do so.

Give the “touch and go” attacks a rest.

Tell you what–answer the questions posed to you on this site. Then you will have the standing to accuse others of being unable to cope with a strong opposing point of view. So far, you cut and run whenever a tough question is posed.

Regarding the separate H1N1 vaccine developed and used during the 2009-2010 H1N1 influenza outbreak, and concerns about “risks” and “outcomes” of pregnancies in the women who received this vaccine, starting October, 2009:

Major birth defects, preterm birth, and small size for gestational age.
RESULTS:

From a cohort of 53,432 infants (6989 [13.1%] exposed to the influenza A[H1N1]pdm09 vaccine during pregnancy [345 in the first trimester and 6644 in the second or third trimester]), 660 (330 exposed) were included in propensity score-matched analyses of adverse fetal outcomes associated with first-trimester exposure. For analysis of small size for gestational age after second- or third-trimester exposure, 13,284 (6642 exposed) were included; for analyses of preterm birth, 12,909 (6543 exposed) were included. A major birth defect was diagnosed in 18 of 330 infants (5.5%) exposed to the vaccine in the first trimester, compared with 15 of 330 unexposed infants (4.5%) (POR, 1.21; 95% CI, 0.60-2.45). Preterm birth occurred in 31 of 330 infants (9.4%) exposed in the first trimester, compared with 24 of 330 unexposed infants (7.3%) (POR, 1.32; 95% CI, 0.76-2.31), and in 302 of 6543 infants (4.6%) with second- or third-trimester exposure, compared with 295 of 6366 unexposed infants (4.6%) (POR, 1.00; 95% CI, 0.84-1.17). Small size for gestational age was observed in 25 of 330 infants (7.6%) with first-trimester exposure compared with 31 of 330 unexposed infants (9.4%) (POR, 0.79; 95% CI, 0.46-1.37), and in 641 of 6642 infants (9.7%) with second- or third-trimester exposure, compared with 657 of 6642 unexposed infants (9.9%) (POR, 0.97; 95% CI, 0.87-1.09).
CONCLUSIONS:

In this Danish cohort, exposure to an adjuvanted influenza A(H1N1)pdm09 vaccine during pregnancy was not associated with a significantly increased risk of major birth defects, preterm birth, or fetal growth restriction.”

BTW, the H1N1 influenza strain has been incorporated into every seasonal flu vaccine (2010-2011, 2011-2012 and 2012-2013), since the time of the 2009-2010 H1N1 influenza outbreak.

We evaluated the relationship between maternal H1N1 vaccination and fetal and neonatal outcomes among singleton births during the 2009-2010 H1N1 pandemic.
METHODS:

We used a population-based perinatal database in Ontario, Canada, to examine preterm birth (PTB), small-for-gestational-age (SGA) births, 5-minute Apgar score below 7, and fetal death via multivariable regression. We compared outcomes between women who did and did not receive an H1N1 vaccination during pregnancy.
RESULTS:

Of the 55,570 mothers with a singleton birth, 23,340 (42.0%) received an H1N1 vaccination during pregnancy. Vaccinated mothers were less likely to have an SGA infant based on the 10th (adjusted risk ratio [RR]=0.90; 95% confidence interval [CI]=0.85, 0.96) and 3rd (adjusted RR=0.81; 95% CI=0.72, 0.92) growth percentiles; PTB at less than 32 weeks’ gestation (adjusted RR=0.73; 95% CI=0.58, 0.91) and fetal death (adjusted RR=0.66; 95% CI=0.47, 0.91) were also less likely among these women.
CONCLUSIONS:

Our results suggest that second- or third-trimester H1N1 vaccination was associated with improved fetal and neonatal outcomes during the recent pandemic. Our findings need to be confirmed in future studies with designs that can better overcome concerns regarding biased estimates of vaccine efficacy.

How about this study and the doubling of risk for having a child diagnosed with an ASD, for women who reported fevers, caused by any disease…including influenza:

“….Published online in the Journal of Autism and Developmental Disorders, the study is believed to be the first to consider how fever from any cause, including the flu, and its treatment during pregnancy could affect the likelihood of having a child with autism or developmental delay.

The results are based on data from a large, case-control investigation known as the Childhood Autism Risk from Genetics and the Environment (CHARGE) Study. Another recent study based on CHARGE data found that mothers who were obese or diabetic had a higher likelihood of having children with autism….”

I do believe that Putinreloaded has contributed in a non agressive and positive way to the discussion.

We are familiar with putin’s nonsense. S/he is an AIDS denialist, a racist and a bare-face liar. If that’s your kind of person then I’m sure you can find some cesspits to wallow around in with him/her. You have a lot of nerve to insult this blog’s host because you lost some weirdo commrade-in-arms.

Sullivan – of course you have to put up with a lot – so does everyone who contributes – I have been abused constantly. This is a public discussion. You will not get people who agree with your views and in fact it would be a bland discussion if you did.just get over it and realize this is not just a forum you can control for your own agenda. Please remind me of what questions I have not answered and I will revisit.

Lillady I am concered that this study does not pick up outcomes that would appear as the child develops – ie autism, intelligence etc. The study does not show how long the children were assessed for. Now you would imagine with such a study that they could have studied these children for at least one year to assess if they developed mentally and physically according to all normal parameters. Why did they not do this? To me this study is worthless as it only records MAJOR BIRTH DEFECTS preterm birth, and small size for gestational age. This is NOT enough criteria and misses major problems which could occur later on in development. This is a constant problem which is not being addressed – studies that look at long term health outcomes on vaccinated children and those exposed to vaccines in the womb are not being done.

DESIGN, SETTING, AND PARTICIPANTS:
Registry-based cohort study based on all liveborn singleton infants in Denmark, delivered between November 2, 2009, and September 30, 2010. In propensity score-matched analyses, we estimated prevalence odds ratios (PORs) of adverse fetal outcomes, comparing infants exposed and unexposed to an AS03-adjuvanted influenza A(H1N1)pdm09 vaccine during pregnancy.

“Lillady I am concered that this study does not pick up outcomes that would appear as the child develops – ie autism, intelligence etc. The study does not show how long the children were assessed for. Now you would imagine with such a study that they could have studied these children for at least one year to assess if they developed mentally and physically according to all normal parameters. Why did they not do this? To me this study is worthless as it only records MAJOR BIRTH DEFECTS preterm birth, and small size for gestational age. This is NOT enough criteria and misses major problems which could occur later on in development. This is a constant problem which is not being addressed – studies that look at long term health outcomes on vaccinated children and those exposed to vaccines in the womb are not being done.”

Oh cripes Goldy, studies have been done to address your *concerns* here’s a very complete study published in the Pediatrics journal studying the effect of vaccines administered to autistic kids matched with neurotypical kids. The study intently analyzed all the vaccines that each child’s mother received while pregnant and intently analyzed all the childrens’ vaccines received in early childhood.

The study concerned itself with thimerisol, but could be extrapolated to analyze the effects of every ingredient contained in the vaccines that were administered to pregnant women and their autistic kids or neurotypical kids:

Severe Influenza Among Children and Young Adults with Neurologic and Neurodevelopmental Conditions — Ohio, 2011
Weekly
January 6, 2012 / 60(51);1729-1733

Children with neurologic and neurodevelopmental conditions are at increased risk for severe outcomes from influenza, including death (1–3). In April 2011, the Ohio Department of Health and CDC investigated an influenza outbreak that began in February 2011 in a residential facility for 130 children and young adults with neurologic and neurodevelopmental conditions. This report summarizes the characteristics and clinical courses of 13 severely ill residents with suspected or confirmed influenza; 10 were hospitalized, and seven died. Diagnosis is challenging in this population, and clinicians should consider influenza in patients with neurologic and neurodevelopmental conditions who have respiratory illness or a decline in baseline medical status when influenza is circulating in the community. Prompt testing, early and aggressive antiviral treatment, and antiviral chemoprophylaxis are important for these patients (4,5). When influenza is suspected, antiviral treatment should be given as soon as possible after symptom onset, ideally within 48 hours. Treatment should not wait for laboratory confirmation of influenza (4). During outbreaks, antiviral chemoprophylaxis should be provided to all residents of institutional facilities (e.g., nursing homes and long-term– care facilities), regardless of vaccination status (5). Residential facilities for patients with neurologic and neurodevelopmental conditions are encouraged to vaccinate all eligible residents and staff members against influenza…..”

During years when their was a shortage of seasonal influenza vaccine, due to manufacturing difficulties, health departments would set up “priority lists” for distribution to doctors who cared for “vulnerable populations”. At the health department where I worked as a public health nurse, we set up banks of telephones, to arrange for distribution (free of charge) to these doctors.

Vulnerable kids and adults with these severe/profound and multiple disabilities, were always given first priority for receiving seasonal influenza vaccine, along with pregnant women, people with severe respiratory disease and those with immune suppressing/immune compromising diseases and disorders.

There is no reply to my question as to why the outcome of the study did not do more than check if the child had two legs and two arms and were normal birth weight etc. The fact that mercury from the flu shot – which crosses the blood brain barrier in babies – could have caused brain development problems and neurological disorders down the track was not done. These studies have not been done and should be.

Goldy, ironic that you use sucha such an] accusatory tone in claiming others have avoided your questuons [questions]. You constantly have avoided tough questions. This was pointed out to you (again) recently and you acted as though you don’t evrn read the questions posed to you. And you were too lazy ro [to] reread the questions posed to you.

I assume you have little understanding of autism and likley have no connection to the autism communities. Any one with a basic knowledge would realize how difficult it is to reliably diagnose autism by 1 year of age.

And that’s for something relatively straightforward like autism which I beleive is a reportable diagnosis there. In a study such as this, looking at large populations and registry data, measures of IQ would be difficult to impossible to measure. The authors have neither the resources nor the right to test every child.

Birth records are registered.

Of course the fundamental answers to your question are (a) none of us are the researchers so we can’t speculate why they chose the experiment they picked (b) how do you know they aren’t tracking such measures into a time when they would be more reliable and (c) if you were interested you would pose the question to the researchers themselves, not here.

All in all, a rather weak attempt at a diversion. Presented with a benefit from a vaccine, you try to refocus the discussion away from the topic. Why are you so shy about discussing data that shows a benefit for vaccines?

Or, to put it another way, you do admit that vaccines are beneficial, don’t you?

@Goldy: You DO realize, don’t you, that the flu vaccine is available in a thimerosol-free formation, and that most providers carry that version? In fact, in some states, as a CYA, it’s illegal to give pregnant women and children under a certain age (6, IIRC) the flu vaccine with thimerosol. So WHAT mercury in the flu shot are these women getting?

Every consent I ever saw for the flu vaccine mentions thimerosol (allergy risk, but also asks about pregnancy) and every place I’ve gotten the vaccine I’ve seen both versions for those foolish enough to believe in “Toxins”. My employer, Major Heathcare Company, doesn’t even offer the thimerosol version when they give free flu shots because of the fuss some people put up. So they pay for the more expensive version to encourage everyone to at least get the flu shot! (We have approximately a 60% flu vaccination rate…funny, though, how the areas that have the flu run rampant through them one year all have people getting the vaccine in following years…)

Triskeletnecat – Now this makes the study even more confusing to parents. If the study was done using non-mercury based vaccines then there is a risk that those parents who can’t afford the non mercury based vaccine could still be at risk – because there has been no study that shows outcomes.

This study if it is meant to eleviate the fears of parents for their unborn child just adds to the confusion – do they risk taking a vaccine with mercury? This study could have been done with the non mercury vaccine . To be of any use the study should clearly state what flu vaccines were used Most vaccines contain. 25 micrograms of mercury per dose. The EPA’s safe limit for mercury is 0.1 mcg/kg, so everyone who gets the flu vaccine receives an overdose of mercury. You would have to weigh at least 550 pounds to receive a flu shot and be within the safe federal exposure limits for mercury.

When are there going to be studies that are independent and show some long term outcomes. This study is a sham and meant to make mothers feel safe when in fact this study could have been done with mercury free vaccines. Also as you work for the vaccine industry I would not expect any independent thinking from you

There you go again trying to divert from the real issue which I raised which was the fact that the so called study did not give any indication of whether the vaccine contained mercury or not…that is the real issue so could you address that please. I read Triskel’s comment “Major Heathcare Company, doesn’t even offer the thimerosol version when they give free flu shots because of the fuss some people put up. So they pay for the more expensive version to encourage everyone to at least get the flu shot!” wrongly at first but it is irrelevant to the main issue.

Perhaps you could tell me. I went to the CDC website and the only information they provided was Do all flu vaccines contain thimerosal?
No. Influenza (flu) vaccines are currently available in both thimerosal-containing and thimerosal-free versions. The total amount of flu vaccine without thimerosal as a preservative at times has been limited, but availability will increase as vaccine manufacturing capabilities are expanded. I

This duscussion is on ” Children with neurologic disorders at high risk of death from flu”. I don’t really see how you believe you are in a position to complain that the discussion has diverged from your unique definition of the “main point”

Are you working on answering tose questions posed to you? For example, you do see the clear and compelling evidence that vaccines are benficial, don’t you?

Sullivan you can go around and around avoiding the question – but you know and I know that the Study proves nothing about the safety of the vaccine if the vaccine used did not contain mercury. I repeat mercury is a neurotoxin – you do not put neurotoxins in the body to avoid neurological issues. Therefore it is of the utmost importance to know whether the vaccine used did or did not contain mercury.

The point of the discussion, as in the article above is the fact that children with neurological disorders are at a higher risk of death from influenza. Yes you’ve been able to divert that discussion for many, many comments. Doesn’t change the subject. What it has done is amply demonstrate is that you put chikdren like mine at risk.

And you are now trying to dodge that point again.

Based on your recent actions, you will respond within the next five minutes ignoring everything I’ve written and pose your straw man question again. The answer will be, again, it makes no sense to ask whether the vaccines the dead children didn’t get contained thimerosal. Because the study in question here involves largely unvaccinated disabled children who died from influenza. Your attemps to divert attention away from that are sad.

In reply to Science Mom – I only respect truly independent sources. Money corrupts and corruption is rife in the Pharmaceutical Industry and the Health Care Industry – This is because of the massive profits being made from vaccines and also because it is relatively risk free as the government indemnifies the vaccine makers.

I have listed numerous “independent” sources on other threads and you couldn’t answer any of my questions. So I think this is just another one of your distractions to deflect from the fact that you are an ignoramus.

Oh and you might want to take a look at the study Sullivan posted and see how many of the dead children actually even got vaccinated.

Here’s the fish Basically, all you’re going to be a little bit more even and iit turns out the water I
forgot to eat breakfast. We all agree that fishing
time is worthwhile. It just goes to show that what angler young angler 2013 we sometimes assume
with the naked eye, turns out to be the consensus with those that will share any details.
You want a heavy mono, a very good idea because you
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Recently Fluvax was given to children and caused a very high number of febrile convulsions. It turns out that the vaccine had nevr been tested on children through clinical trials. Two members of the Federal Department of Health and Aging (Australian Body responsible for vaccine safety) were also on the advisory board of CSL. Huge conflict of interest. How are we meant to trust vaccines when conflict of interest is allowed?

“The non-profit Consumers Health Forum is calling for a shake-up of the TGA’s funding, which relies on cost-recovery from the pharmaceutical and therapeutic goods industries.

The forum’s executive director, Carol Bennett, says the TGA “has to demonstrate it puts consumer safety above all other priorities”.

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[…] Kids with neurologic issues at higher risk of death from flu Of the 336 young children (defined as people younger than 18 years) with information offered on underlying medical circumstances who have been reported to have died from 2009 H1N1 flu-related brings about, 227 had 1 or much more underlying overall health situations. Read a lot more on Left Brain Proper Brain […]

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