Re: Travis Fisher

Originally Posted by Goldenfleece

I think Nick made a good point in his article on this subject that a lot of times that we see an open man with Fisher 5-10 yards away, it may well be because we're playing a zone, especially with all the blitzing. That would be a coaching call. On the other hand, it is sometimes difficult to determine whether the opposing offense just found a hole in the zone or someone blew an assignment (not necessarily Fisher). Either way, I think the secondary as a whole probably need to play better heads up football. As soon as our guys see the ball in the air they ought to be converging on the target, especially if the target is between their zone and the next guy's.

But to get back to Fisher, I agree with the assessment that he does a poor job of keeping track of where the ball is. And that is a problem. You play the man tight and don't go for the ball and you will get pass interference calls and you won't get interceptions. That is what the refs look for on PI: is the player going for the ball or the receiver? This particularly struck me a few minutes ago when I took a look at the online Pro Bowl ballot. Fisher is credited with 0 int, 22 tackles, and 1 pass defended. So he is 1 of only 8 CBs on the list that have 1 or less pass deflections (out of the 64 corners currently starting in the league), and most of the others have missed games due to injury. Some of the better corners in the league have knocked down 8, 9, 10 passes so far, and nearly half the starting corners have batted down 5 or more...Fisher has broken up a single pass (provided the NFL.com stats are correct). Now in Fisher's defense, he has played injured. I respect that, and stats don't tell the whole story. But those stats seem to corroborate assertions that he is the kind of corner that is just good enough to stay with his guy and make the tackle after the catch--but not good enough to actually prevent the catch. Now you can say what you want to about perfect passes and perfect catches, but one pass batted down and no interceptions must mean either he's not performing up to the same standard other corners around the league are or every ball that comes near him has been thrown so flawlessly that even with good positioning and coverage he never had a chance to get a hand on it. I think it is fair to say that his play has not been the quality you want from a starting corner. He shouldn't become the scapegoat for all of our secondary problems, though, because the only guy we've got who would be a definite upgrade at this point is a healthy Fakhir Brown.

Brown for Fisher isn't a swop that can be entertained unless the coaching staff decide that Hill or Bartell have proved that they are a step up. Unfortunately all I've seen from Hill (and you will have too unless Suzhou has better cable than HK ) is Greg Jennings run past him with the ball in his hand. As for Bartell, he's still riding the bench for a reason.

I wish we had an alternative but if we look back at the ball right now all we can see is players who haven't proved they're better than Fisher, and we can't be comfortable with that.

Re: Travis Fisher

Originally Posted by Fat Pang

Brown for Fisher isn't a swop that can be entertained unless the coaching staff decide that Hill or Bartell have proved that they are a step up. Unfortunately all I've seen from Hill (and you will have too unless Suzhou has better cable than HK ) is Greg Jennings run past him with the ball in his hand. As for Bartell, he's still riding the bench for a reason.

I wish we had an alternative but if we look back at the ball right now all we can see is players who haven't proved they're better than Fisher, and we can't be comfortable with that.

It's amazing what you can do with an online streamcast and Monday mornings off. I actually did get to see most of the last game for what it's worth, but you're right. We haven't seen a lot of Hill, and I don't really see a better alternative to playing Fisher at the moment. I guess you'd have to throw Butler into the mix as far as possible alternatives, but as you said about Bartell I'm sure there's a reason he's riding the pine.

Re: Travis Fisher

Originally Posted by Nick

I'll be posting a detailed article on Thursday which takes a closer look at Fisher's play in the Seahawks game. In it, and hopefully I'm not spoiling anything for anyone, the conclusions drawn from the observations of game tape suggest his bad play in that contest is an exaggeration. In past threads I've provided detailed analysis of past game tape to counter similar claims. Many of those points have gone uncontested. If you really feel Fisher is a huge hole in our defense, I'd encourage you to go back and respond to those points to support your case. I can provide links if you'd like. Otherwise it would be interesting to see your supporting details here where you made the claim.

That being said, there's an incredibly important point that many posters have been saying which needs to be repeated here - any cornerback is going to look bad when your defense cannot get pressure on the quarterback. Good quarterbacks who have all day to throw are going to find their target. Is it any coincidence that our secondary (heck, the entire defense) looked pretty good in the first half against Seattle when the Rams achieved three sacks, but in the second half crumbled against Seattle's offense while only producing one sack and failing to get adequate pressure?

It's easy to look at cornerbacks when things go wrong in coverage because they're right there with the receivers, but I would contend a team's ability to get pressure is equally if not more important to successful pass defense, and it's something the Rams have been inconsistent at if not struggled with from a consistency standpoint thus far this season.

good morning Nick,i just watched nfl matchup on espn and they highlighted the branch td last sunday,what i saw was fisher right up on branch and when the ball was snapped branch took off to his left,ran around fisher straight down the field and caught the td.what i saw fisher do was just turn and run after branch.i think what some of us would like to see is fisher hit that receiver off the line,now i know he cant after 5 yards but he was right up on him,by doing this would it allow us a couple extra seconds on a blitz to get to the qb by throwing the wr a bit off his route and would it allow time for help to get there for fisher,sometimes thats all you need as help gets there just a little to late most of the time.teams do this to bruce and holt all the time.when your not that good as is the case with fisher any little think might help.just asking if you are seeing the same thing when you watch the replays,thanks for your imput.

Re: Travis Fisher

Originally Posted by jkramsfan

i think what some of us would like to see is fisher hit that receiver off the line,now i know he cant after 5 yards but he was right up on him,by doing this would it allow us a couple extra seconds on a blitz to get to the qb by throwing the wr a bit off his route and would it allow time for help to get there for fisher

What I'm seeing is that on that play, neither Fisher nor Hill tried to jam their man at the line. So that leads me to believe that perhaps on this play that's not part of their assignment.

And I agree with it not being a part of their assignment, given what we know about the play. Consider that when you're twenty yards from the end zone in man to man with a player and have little to no safety help (again, Atogwe is playing Cover 1 in the middle of the end zone and isn't able to help Fisher or Hill on either of the sidelines), you have to stay with them because you're the only line of defense.

If Fisher goes to press Branch at the line and Branch is able to either maneuver past him or just push him away, not only did the jam fail but now Fisher is in complete chase mode to try and make up ground against Branch. And since they're twenty yards out, it's not like Branch has a limited amount of room to run in. If he did that'd make catching him easy and jamming would make more sense. But he doesn't. Again, he's got the twenty yards from the line of scrimmage to the end zone, and then the additional ten yards in the end zone. And again, no safety help or defender behind Fisher in the zone to help him in case Branch does in fact get by him.

If you want to see a great example of Fisher jamming someone at the line to disrupt a play, go back and watch the Detroit game. First quarter, two minute mark. Lions are in the red zone and Fisher is line up in the slot. Rams are playing zone coverage, and Fisher not only presses Hakim but redirects him to the side right into Mike Furrey, so he effectively disrupts two routes with one press. I wonder how many people remember that one or even knew about it if they weren't watching the game.

A press is a great tactic, but like all corner tactics needs to be utilized in the right situation. I personally don't consider man coverage with no safety help deep a great situation to try and press the guy and run the risk of letting him get a couple of steps if he beats your press.

Re: Travis Fisher

Nick, another very good explanation of why or why not to press and i did not see the example you gave in the detroit game,if i get a chance i will try and watch it,my only question iswhy not press him at the line he ran by him anyways, since the field is shorten when in the red zone,you have less field to makeup if he gets by you, now i know you have to be quicker to catch up at that point and if your not going to bump you might as well play off a couple of yards. in all fairness to fisher,we dont know what he is told to do,so this is all speculation on our parts.

Re: Travis Fisher

Originally Posted by jkramsfan

my only question iswhy not press him at the line he ran by him anyways, since the field is shorten when in the red zone,you have less field to makeup if he gets by you, now i know you have to be quicker to catch up at that point and if your not going to bump you might as well play off a couple of yards. in all fairness to fisher,we dont know what he is told to do,so this is all speculation on our parts.

You're right, it is speculation on our part regarding what he's told to do. But again, we can make inferences based on what else is going on during the play. And since Hill isn't trying to press his man at the line, it's likely not a part of this play call.

As for why you wouldn't do it, I tried to cover that in my last post. If Fisher tries to press and fails, he doesn't have the kind of position he has if he simply turns and runs with the guy. And again, he doesn't have a safety behind him backing him up, so being able to keep tight coverage on the receiver is vital toward defending the pass since he's the only one defending Branch.