I agree about throwing the discs. Only thing that matters is if you see an improvement or not. Ive got an Anode, Ion and several other putters. To me the best thing about the Anode is the grip, it just fits my grip perfectly. Personally for me, rim design (grip), plastic type/stiffness and weight are far more important then any gyro effect.

JR wrote:...mafa did a test on few discs and every disc was surprisingly gyroscopic so the differences may not be huge in trying to optimze results...

That's exactly my point. The Wizard and other discs are already pretty damn gyroscopic, so that it is very difficult to imagine that you can gain very much in this area without increasing max weight (not allowed). That's why my estimate comes out to 10-20% max gain in the Ion over the Wizard.

Leopard wrote:...throwing discs is the extent of my science.

Dave Mac says it well...

DaveMac wrote:Besides all the technical mumbo-jumbo, the main reason we believe our putters are more successful is the range of grips and feels.

I think this is very important, since it affects how you throw, and of course we know how important that is to obtaining a great flight.

...

I just want to say that I'm going to be skeptical of all these kinds of claims, and challenge them with physics if I think they're suspect, because I care about disc golf too much to allow it to go the way of ball golf-like gimmicks. Seriously, have you guys seen all the ridiculous gimmicks in ball golf? I hate that crap.

So...nice try MVP, but you're not going to get a pass yet. You make great discs that fly very well, you don't need to invent "gyro" and other gimmicks to sell them.

Jesse B 707 wrote:Does it change flight? Yes, in a desirable way? Not for me, is it a gimmick?...kind of.

Totally this.

I can see the difference in the MVP discs vs "normal" ones but have not yet had any MVP molds stay in my bag long-term.The Anode came close but that slot ended up going to the Opto Pure instead. MVP discs don't suck, they just don't make anything better for me.

Jesse B 707 wrote:Does it change flight? Yes, in a desirable way? Not for me, is it a gimmick?...kind of.

Then I trust a Wizard doesn't fly better than an Aviar-X in a desirable (flies farther, truer, with less effort) for you? Was the Wizard a gimmick?

I'm with Leopard...If you can't throw a Qmega next to an Anode and observe the differences(the Anode flies truer/farther/easier) I don't know what to say...And when a disc comes out with a very radical design and flies better than similar discs without the radical design, it probably has at least something to do with the design.

AcesAZ wrote:I agree about throwing the discs. Only thing that matters is if you see an improvement or not. Ive got an Anode, Ion and several other putters. To me the best thing about the Anode is the grip, it just fits my grip perfectly. Personally for me, rim design (grip), plastic type/stiffness and weight are far more important then any gyro effect.

I'll add consistency to that list. I've never seen discs molded as consistently as MVP does, though even they are not perfect.

JHern wrote:

Leopard wrote:Throw an Anode against a Q-Mega and tell us it's a gimmick.

No idea about the Q-Mega...first I've heard of it.

Small bead Aviar in Champ.

Parks wrote:If the posts on this forum are any indication, the PD is like a Teebird with sunshine coming out of its butthole so hard that it flies faster.

JHern wrote:I just want to say that I'm going to be skeptical of all these kinds of claims, and challenge them with physics if I think they're suspect, because I care about disc golf too much to allow it to go the way of ball golf-like gimmicks. Seriously, have you guys seen all the ridiculous gimmicks in ball golf? I hate that crap.

There is no stopping the machine...In America could it possibly go down any other way? If Nike can convince the nation that shoes make a difference in basketball ability, then there is nothing to stop the gimmick avalanche when big money gets into DG. I'm not thrilled by this either, I just know it can't go down any other way.

As far as MVP goes...Making discs more gyroscopic is good. Dave Mac made the Wizard more gyroscopic than the Aviar-x, and it made it better. Not better enough to make someone a better putter or to allow Gateway players to dominate the putting green, but better in small incremental ways that nerds discuss on the internet. Now MVP made the Ion more gyroscopic than the Wizard, and in the same incremental way it flies better.

I keep 4-5 omegas in the bag. When ZAM got his anode and let me throw and putt it I almost crapped my pants. It was the same flight of a stable omega, but it just seemed to go farther and glide better. ZAM can attest my mind was blown

Jesse B 707 wrote:Does it change flight? Yes, in a desirable way? Not for me, is it a gimmick?...kind of.

Then I trust a Wizard doesn't fly better than an Aviar-X in a desirable (flies farther, truer, with less effort) for you? Was the Wizard a gimmick?

I'm with Leopard...If you can't throw a Qmega next to an Anode and observe the differences(the Anode flies truer/farther/easier) I don't know what to say...And when a disc comes out with a very radical design and flies better than similar discs without the radical design, it probably has at least something to do with the design.

No...no it actually doesn't, a BB aviar goes right about the same distance with the same effort as my wizards. I also think a qmega is a shitty disc to compare to, there are no putters in champ plastic that fly far or glide well with anything but maximum effort. The MVP discs are good for some people...I am not one of those, with mids and putters I tend to favor distance control and reliable fade over "longer and straighter with less effort"...to me that's just a positive way to say "these things are hard to range and don't fade when you'd like them to". I will however be trying a Volt.

Jesse B 707 wrote:I also think a qmega is a shitty disc to compare to, there are no putters in champ plastic that fly far or glide well with anything but maximum effort.

it's not that I think the QMega is great, it was really never something I wanted to bag although i threw it a ton in practice, with the Sirius in the bag. but I think it's a great disc to compare a Proton Anode to, because in my opinion it is the nearest disc in the world to any particular MVP model.

the Evo Wiz doesn't quite mold up to a look like a Proton Ion (although base Wiz can get damn close)... the Axis and Vector have slightly different wings than their nearest candy counterparts... but the Proton Anode and the Champ SB are dead ringers in material, mold-up, and mold shape.

premium Omegas are something I'm super duper familiar with, so I can see when what is essentially a QMega really rocks balls beyond my expectations. and when i'm playing drive-catch with a dreamboat who CAN crush QMegas and has the exact same read of the disc, i believe there's something to the main variable.

I also have to strongly disagree with the MVP hypers that insist more gyroscopic=better. Discs that are more gyroscopic fly differently. I don't think many would argue against the Comet being one of the greatest golf discs ever made, for its true flight, glide, and line holding capabilities. But its just not very gyroscopic compared to other discs. Could you mold a disc in the exact shape of a comet with an overmold to make it more gyroscopic? Of course. But that would change the flight. It would not be a desirable if your goal was to make a disc that flies like a Comet.

And all discs are gyroscopic. MVP didn't invent "gyro-technology," and they didn't even invent overmolds. I still love throwing their mids quite a lot, but this hype machine is such a joke.