Associates For Biblical Research - Thoughts on Jebel al-Lawz as the Location of Mount SinaiCurrent Eventshttp://www.biblearchaeology.org/
http://www.rssboard.org/rss-specificationBlogEngine.NET 1.6.1.6en-UShttp://www.biblearchaeology.org/opml.axdAssociates for Biblical ResearchAssociates For Biblical Research0.0000000.000000John on Thoughts on Jebel al-Lawz as the Location of Mount SinaiFrom the map it is obvious that both proposed mountain locations are equadistant from Kadesh Barnea. Yet you offer no proof of your location of Kadeah Barnea, which is a critical component of your logic. Also, you are picking and choosing which of the &quot;miraculous&quot; elements to discount, so that it fits your logic scheme. If you are going to accept that there was a Red Sea crossing at all, then you must also accept that the cloud by day and fire by night &quot;leading them&quot; would have some effect upon their rate of travel.http://www.biblearchaeology.org/post/2006/05/17/Thoughts-on-Jebel-al-Lawz-as-the-Location-of-Mount-Sinai.aspx#id_d2a0523e-8f38-414f-a618-2776e89776cc
Johnhttp://www.biblearchaeology.org/post/2006/05/17/Thoughts-on-Jebel-al-Lawz-as-the-Location-of-Mount-Sinai.aspx#id_d2a0523e-8f38-414f-a618-2776e89776ccMon, 25 Aug 2008 07:36:37 -0500Johnhttp://www.biblearchaeology.org/pingback.axdhttp://www.biblearchaeology.org/post/2006/05/17/Thoughts-on-Jebel-al-Lawz-as-the-Location-of-Mount-Sinai.aspx#id_d2a0523e-8f38-414f-a618-2776e89776cchttp://www.biblearchaeology.org/post/2006/05/17/Thoughts-on-Jebel-al-Lawz-as-the-Location-of-Mount-Sinai.aspx#id_d2a0523e-8f38-414f-a618-2776e89776cc#commenthttp://www.biblearchaeology.org/syndication.axd?post=d2a0523e-8f38-414f-a618-2776e89776cchsmith on Thoughts on Jebel al-Lawz as the Location of Mount SinaiDear John, Re: 8/24/08 post<br /><br />Thanks for commenting on our website. We appreciate your interest.<br /><br />Perusing through Dr. Wood's brief article, we see know rejection of the supernatural acts of God, nor His superintendence over the events connected to the Exodus. The cloud by day and fire by night certainly happened, but we fail to see how these phenomenon could have substantially increased the ability to move through the Sinai with women, children, elders and animals, not to mention finding water along the way. It certainly would not provide enough time to travel from Kadesh Barnea to Jebel Al-Lawz in Saudi Arabia in 11 days.<br /><br />Additionally, the location of Kadesh Barnea is well-established through historical and archaeological records. The onus is on the proponent of the Saudi Arabia theory to demonstrate: 1. The currently accepted location is incorrect and why. 2. A new proposed location with evidence to back it up.<br /><br />We refer our visitors to other in depth articles that further show that the Saudia Arabia theory is untenable and should be rejected. <br /><br /><a href="http://www.biblearchaeology.org/post/2008/06/Is-Mount-Sinai-in-Saudi-Arabia.aspx" rel="nofollow">www.biblearchaeology.org/.../...-Saudi-Arabia.aspx</a><br /><br /><a href="http://www.biblearchaeology.org/post/2007/10/Mount-Sinai-is-NOT-Jebel-al-Lawz-in-Saudi-Arabia.aspx" rel="nofollow">www.biblearchaeology.org/.../...-Saudi-Arabia.aspx</a><br /><br /><a href="http://www.biblearchaeology.org/post/2008/04/In-Search-of-Mt-Sinai.aspx" rel="nofollow">www.biblearchaeology.org/.../...h-of-Mt-Sinai.aspx</a><br /><br />We hope this is helpful in your research.<br /><br />Henry Smith<br /><br />http://www.biblearchaeology.org/post/2006/05/17/Thoughts-on-Jebel-al-Lawz-as-the-Location-of-Mount-Sinai.aspx#id_f4c0933a-512a-4b76-9a3d-0ab73a2913c5
hsmithhttp://www.biblearchaeology.org/post/2006/05/17/Thoughts-on-Jebel-al-Lawz-as-the-Location-of-Mount-Sinai.aspx#id_f4c0933a-512a-4b76-9a3d-0ab73a2913c5Tue, 26 Aug 2008 09:51:51 -0500hsmithhttp://www.biblearchaeology.org/pingback.axdhttp://www.biblearchaeology.org/post/2006/05/17/Thoughts-on-Jebel-al-Lawz-as-the-Location-of-Mount-Sinai.aspx#id_f4c0933a-512a-4b76-9a3d-0ab73a2913c5http://www.biblearchaeology.org/post/2006/05/17/Thoughts-on-Jebel-al-Lawz-as-the-Location-of-Mount-Sinai.aspx#id_f4c0933a-512a-4b76-9a3d-0ab73a2913c5#commenthttp://www.biblearchaeology.org/syndication.axd?post=f4c0933a-512a-4b76-9a3d-0ab73a2913c5A HAVENGA on Thoughts on Jebel al-Lawz as the Location of Mount Sinai<br /> Can you explain why PAUL said in GALATIANS 1 AND 4<br /><br /> Mt Sinai in ARABIA<br /> <br /> <br /> http://www.biblearchaeology.org/post/2006/05/17/Thoughts-on-Jebel-al-Lawz-as-the-Location-of-Mount-Sinai.aspx#id_eb56c58e-0370-44f3-9954-b177fc173598
A HAVENGAhttp://www.biblearchaeology.org/post/2006/05/17/Thoughts-on-Jebel-al-Lawz-as-the-Location-of-Mount-Sinai.aspx#id_eb56c58e-0370-44f3-9954-b177fc173598Sun, 22 Feb 2009 08:28:08 -0500A HAVENGAhttp://www.biblearchaeology.org/pingback.axdhttp://www.biblearchaeology.org/post/2006/05/17/Thoughts-on-Jebel-al-Lawz-as-the-Location-of-Mount-Sinai.aspx#id_eb56c58e-0370-44f3-9954-b177fc173598http://www.biblearchaeology.org/post/2006/05/17/Thoughts-on-Jebel-al-Lawz-as-the-Location-of-Mount-Sinai.aspx#id_eb56c58e-0370-44f3-9954-b177fc173598#commenthttp://www.biblearchaeology.org/syndication.axd?post=eb56c58e-0370-44f3-9954-b177fc173598john on Thoughts on Jebel al-Lawz as the Location of Mount SinaiFirst of all,
Your analysis cites the limits of travel but does not do justice to the math when calculating the possibilities.
Days
Miles Per Day 11
23 253
14 150
9.5 104.5
7 77
6 66
If traveling 11 days, then the distances traveled has been documented to vary from 66 to 253 miles. It is not unreasonable to assume that a group of (now) nomadic people could make adjustments to the situation when traveling.
Secondly, you also assume worst case in the route around the edge of the Sinai (so-called) peninsula. That does not do justice to the Biblical record when God said that Pharoah would say &quot;They are entangled in the land, the wilderness has shut them in&quot;.
In other words God wanted it to appear as if the people had made a wrong decision in terms of traveling into the wilderness. Traveling around the edge of peninsula does not seem to satisfy that criteria. (Also the most probable site for the crossing is not the straights at the southern tip, but the undersea ridge about a quarter the distance from Eliat to the straights at the natural Wadi's formed on both sides at Nuweiba.)
Therefore the 350 miles calculated as the distance traveled are excessive.
Days
Miles Per Day 21
23 483
14 294
9.5 199.5
7 147
6 126
The distance through the canyons across the Sinai is much shorter, the Sinai itself being about 100 miles across at the mid-point. This makes more sense when you factor in the fact that Midian (Moses 2nd homeland, and the place where his father-in-law Jethro resided) was just across the Gulf of Aqaba from Nuweiba.
In fact there is a modern road that follows just this cross Sinai route.
<a href="http://www.lib.utexas.edu/maps/middle_east_and_asia/sinai.jpg" rel="nofollow">www.lib.utexas.edu/.../sinai.jpg</a>
Modern roads have more restrictive grade constraints than flocks and foot traffic, or people on horses and camels. In addition modern roads are often built on ancient by-ways in use for millenia.
It is not unreasonable to assume that Moses would have knowledge of these routes, as he has spent the first forty years of his life in the royal house with access to travelers, the military etc. There are ancient Egyptian forts along some of these routes. Also Moses had fled under duress across this very route when avoiding a murder charge in Egypt earlier in his life. Moses's knowledge is a moot point in any event, as the pillar of cloud by day led them through the wilderness.
So if you factor in the motivation that this group of people are being pursued by the army of Pharaoh, then nine miles per day is not out of the question. Further to say that they could only make the minimum documented travel per day, and that they must take the most circuitous route seems like making the facts serve the desired outcome.
Another miraculous aspect of Israel's travel during the time in the wilderness is that their shoes did not wear out. This is attested to more than once in the Biblical record. The implication is that during their travel they somehow avoided cutting their shoes on rocks etc. If you accept the miraculous, then this seems to point to special grace for travel. Again I would say it is not unreasonable to chose the middle ground on distance if there is special grace for travel.
Wouldn't a more moderate approach be to take the extremes out of the equation?http://www.biblearchaeology.org/post/2006/05/17/Thoughts-on-Jebel-al-Lawz-as-the-Location-of-Mount-Sinai.aspx#id_5346fa0a-1d3e-4156-aa96-8a8d3bb4560a
johnhttp://www.biblearchaeology.org/post/2006/05/17/Thoughts-on-Jebel-al-Lawz-as-the-Location-of-Mount-Sinai.aspx#id_5346fa0a-1d3e-4156-aa96-8a8d3bb4560aTue, 24 Feb 2009 00:01:53 -0500johnhttp://www.biblearchaeology.org/pingback.axdhttp://www.biblearchaeology.org/post/2006/05/17/Thoughts-on-Jebel-al-Lawz-as-the-Location-of-Mount-Sinai.aspx#id_5346fa0a-1d3e-4156-aa96-8a8d3bb4560ahttp://www.biblearchaeology.org/post/2006/05/17/Thoughts-on-Jebel-al-Lawz-as-the-Location-of-Mount-Sinai.aspx#id_5346fa0a-1d3e-4156-aa96-8a8d3bb4560a#commenthttp://www.biblearchaeology.org/syndication.axd?post=5346fa0a-1d3e-4156-aa96-8a8d3bb4560aABR on Thoughts on Jebel al-Lawz as the Location of Mount SinaiDear A Havenga,<br /><br />Thanks for contacting us and for your question. This is an often asked question, so I have included an excerpt from Gordon Franz's article to explain the reference, and well as links to other articles that discuss the subject more in-depth.<br /><br />I hope this helps with your studies---HENRY SMITH<br /><br />The third false assumption is that the Apostle Paul says in Gal. 4:25 that Mt. Sinai was in Saudi Arabia. Cornuke plainly states this when he says, <br /><br />The apostle Paul, under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, informs us that Mount Sinai is in Saudi Arabia. Not Egypt! (Cornuke and Halbrook 2000: 171).<br /> <br />The Bible says nothing of the sort. Granted, the Holy Spirit could have predicted the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia long before it came on the world scene. After all, He predicted Cyrus by name 210 years before he became king of Persia (Isa. 44:28; 45:1; Antiquities of the Jews 11: 5; LCL 6: 315). Yet all the Bible says is that Mount Sinai is in Arabia. <br /><br />Moses never uses the word “Arab” or “Arabia” at the time he wrote the Pentateuch. The words appear later in the Bible (I Kings 10:15; II Chron. 9:14; 17:11; 21:16; 22:1; 26:7; Neh. 2:19; 4:7; 6:1; Isa. 13:20; 21:13; Jer. 3:2; 25:24; Ezek. 27:21). So the Apostle Paul does not have a Mosaic use of the word “Arabia” in mind when he uses the word in Gal. 4:25 because “Arabia” did not exist in Moses’ day. <br /><br />The Galatians 4:25 reference might indeed support the view that Mount Sinai was in Saudi Arabia if the Apostle Paul was looking at a 1990 Rand McNally Atlas. However, it would not be true if he was looking at a First Century AD Roman road map. Although no actual maps of Roman Arabia exist from this period, we do possess the accounts of the contemporary travelers such as Strabo, a Greek from Pontus (64 BC to ca. AD 25). He describes the borders of Arabia as having its eastern border at the Persian Gulf and its western border at the East Side of the Nile River. This means that Strabo understood the entire Arabian Peninsula and the Sinai Peninsula to be included in First Century Arabia (Geography 16:4:2; 17:1:21,24-26,30,31; LCL VII: 309; VIII: 71-79, 85-87). <br /><br />The word “Arab” first appears in an extra-Biblical inscription from a monolith found at Kurkh from the time of Shalmaneser III (853 BC). Throughout the Assyrian period, various Assyrian kings describe the activities of the Arabs, or desert nomads. <br /><br />The first time the word “Arabia” is used as a term for a designated geographical area is in the mid-fifth century BC by the famous Greek historian and traveler, Herodotus (born ca. 484 BC). He traveled to Egypt and wrote about his trip in his book, The Persian Wars. <br /><br /><a href="http://www.biblearchaeology.org/post/2008/06/Is-Mount-Sinai-in-Saudi-Arabia.aspx" rel="nofollow">www.biblearchaeology.org/.../...-Saudi-Arabia.aspx</a><br /><br /><a href="http://www.biblearchaeology.org/post/2007/10/Mount-Sinai-is-NOT-Jebel-al-Lawz-in-Saudi-Arabia.aspx" rel="nofollow">www.biblearchaeology.org/.../...-Saudi-Arabia.aspx</a>http://www.biblearchaeology.org/post/2006/05/17/Thoughts-on-Jebel-al-Lawz-as-the-Location-of-Mount-Sinai.aspx#id_46cb196e-1f61-40f8-a942-47eb957fdd9a
ABRhttp://www.biblearchaeology.org/post/2006/05/17/Thoughts-on-Jebel-al-Lawz-as-the-Location-of-Mount-Sinai.aspx#id_46cb196e-1f61-40f8-a942-47eb957fdd9aTue, 24 Feb 2009 00:54:35 -0500ABRhttp://www.biblearchaeology.org/pingback.axdhttp://www.biblearchaeology.org/post/2006/05/17/Thoughts-on-Jebel-al-Lawz-as-the-Location-of-Mount-Sinai.aspx#id_46cb196e-1f61-40f8-a942-47eb957fdd9ahttp://www.biblearchaeology.org/post/2006/05/17/Thoughts-on-Jebel-al-Lawz-as-the-Location-of-Mount-Sinai.aspx#id_46cb196e-1f61-40f8-a942-47eb957fdd9a#commenthttp://www.biblearchaeology.org/syndication.axd?post=46cb196e-1f61-40f8-a942-47eb957fdd9aE. Harding on Thoughts on Jebel al-Lawz as the Location of Mount SinaiJohn-
1. Kadesh-Barnea at 'Ain Qudeis is derived from Gen 14:6-7, Num 13:26, 14:40-45, 20:1-28, 33:18-19, 34:2-5, Deut 1:20, 40-46, Josh 15:1-4, Ezekiel 47:19, 48:28. I don't think the Deut 1:2 argument for limiting Mount Sinai northwards is valid, but the location for Kadesh is pretty much certain.
2. Actually, the Tiran crossing is the least exhausting Aqaba crossing- recall Etham (Ex 13:20-14:3).
3. There is no land bridge at Nuweiba- go to bible.ca, type &quot;Nuweiba&quot; in the search engine, and click on the first result. Then, scroll down to the rebuttal.
4. Under a Nuweiba crossing, the Israelites would have to travel only 4.5 miles per day to reach Jebel al-Lawz, Ron Wyatt's Elim (Tayyib al Ism) would be impossible to reach, and Num 33:10-11 would have to become a mere scribal mistake.http://www.biblearchaeology.org/post/2006/05/17/Thoughts-on-Jebel-al-Lawz-as-the-Location-of-Mount-Sinai.aspx#id_ccbaf573-ff86-44e7-a92b-476097912d37
E. Hardinghttp://www.biblearchaeology.org/post/2006/05/17/Thoughts-on-Jebel-al-Lawz-as-the-Location-of-Mount-Sinai.aspx#id_ccbaf573-ff86-44e7-a92b-476097912d37Mon, 23 Aug 2010 07:19:18 -0500E. Hardinghttp://www.biblearchaeology.org/pingback.axdhttp://www.biblearchaeology.org/post/2006/05/17/Thoughts-on-Jebel-al-Lawz-as-the-Location-of-Mount-Sinai.aspx#id_ccbaf573-ff86-44e7-a92b-476097912d37http://www.biblearchaeology.org/post/2006/05/17/Thoughts-on-Jebel-al-Lawz-as-the-Location-of-Mount-Sinai.aspx#id_ccbaf573-ff86-44e7-a92b-476097912d37#commenthttp://www.biblearchaeology.org/syndication.axd?post=ccbaf573-ff86-44e7-a92b-476097912d37Isaiah Carriere on Thoughts on Jebel al-Lawz as the Location of Mount SinaiFirst, it's important to note that Deuteronomy 1:2 does not say that livestock could travel the distance from Mount Horeb to Kadesh-barnea in 11 days. Instead, it merely states, &quot;It is eleven days’ journey from Horeb by way of Mount Seir to Kadesh Barnea.&quot; The reference could easily be explained as an 11 day journey by foot. Interestingly, that is about the time it would require for a person to travel by foot from Jebel el Lawz to Kadesh-barnea.
Facts:
Journey:
Jebel el Lawz (Mount Horeb/Sinai) to Kadesh-barnea
Distance:
250 kilometers or 155 miles
Calculation:
155 divided by 11 = 14 miles per day
Camel
25 miles per day
Donkey
20 miles per day
Human:
15 miles per day on foot
Note: Roman soldiers were reported to travel 16-20 miles per day.
Cattle
10 miles per day
Sheep
6 miles per day
Second, the assumption that Israel traveled from Pi-Ramesses to the Red Sea Crossing (Exodus 12:37; 13:20-14:2; Nm 33:5-8) in a few weeks is wholly contrived and not in scripture. The only reference to time that I am aware of is from 1st century Jewish historian Flavius Josephus; who reported the journey from Pi-Ramesses to Mount Sinai lasted three months (The Antiquities of the Jews, III; II. v. 5).
Third, both the Apostle Paul (Galatians 4:25) and Flavius Josephus (The Antiquities of the Jews, IV; IV. v. 7). testify that the location of Mount Sinai is in Arabia (modern day Saudi Arabia). The reference to Saudi Arabia and a 1990 Rand McNally Atlas is clearly a Straw Man Argument.http://www.biblearchaeology.org/post/2006/05/17/Thoughts-on-Jebel-al-Lawz-as-the-Location-of-Mount-Sinai.aspx#id_082c4343-6552-46d3-80b0-0506beeb3f6d
Isaiah Carrierehttp://www.biblearchaeology.org/post/2006/05/17/Thoughts-on-Jebel-al-Lawz-as-the-Location-of-Mount-Sinai.aspx#id_082c4343-6552-46d3-80b0-0506beeb3f6dSun, 07 Jul 2013 18:19:03 -0500Isaiah Carrierehttp://www.biblearchaeology.org/pingback.axdhttp://www.biblearchaeology.org/post/2006/05/17/Thoughts-on-Jebel-al-Lawz-as-the-Location-of-Mount-Sinai.aspx#id_082c4343-6552-46d3-80b0-0506beeb3f6dhttp://www.biblearchaeology.org/post/2006/05/17/Thoughts-on-Jebel-al-Lawz-as-the-Location-of-Mount-Sinai.aspx#id_082c4343-6552-46d3-80b0-0506beeb3f6d#commenthttp://www.biblearchaeology.org/syndication.axd?post=082c4343-6552-46d3-80b0-0506beeb3f6dChad on Thoughts on Jebel al-Lawz as the Location of Mount SinaiIt may be of interest to note that wagon trains on the Oregon Trail which were driven by horses, mules, and oxen often made 10-15 miles per day on a fair weathered day. Some families brought their cattle along as well as goats and chickens and God knows what else.http://www.biblearchaeology.org/post/2006/05/17/Thoughts-on-Jebel-al-Lawz-as-the-Location-of-Mount-Sinai.aspx#id_45b3f814-4d73-4cbd-84c2-24b1a1bb8d76
Chadhttp://www.biblearchaeology.org/post/2006/05/17/Thoughts-on-Jebel-al-Lawz-as-the-Location-of-Mount-Sinai.aspx#id_45b3f814-4d73-4cbd-84c2-24b1a1bb8d76Sun, 22 Sep 2013 03:51:11 -0500Chadhttp://www.biblearchaeology.org/pingback.axdhttp://www.biblearchaeology.org/post/2006/05/17/Thoughts-on-Jebel-al-Lawz-as-the-Location-of-Mount-Sinai.aspx#id_45b3f814-4d73-4cbd-84c2-24b1a1bb8d76http://www.biblearchaeology.org/post/2006/05/17/Thoughts-on-Jebel-al-Lawz-as-the-Location-of-Mount-Sinai.aspx#id_45b3f814-4d73-4cbd-84c2-24b1a1bb8d76#commenthttp://www.biblearchaeology.org/syndication.axd?post=45b3f814-4d73-4cbd-84c2-24b1a1bb8d76