It's a shame Freeview/FreeviewPlay don't sell a reasonable priced program to use, given most the TVs /boxes run Linux or Android in the background anyway.

I'm afraid that's not likely to happen. Freeview HD licensing mandates the ability to use DTCP copy protection DRM on all recordings made of Freeview HD content. That restricts playback of material to the device the material was originally recorded on. I don't see this really being a popular application...

There are also ridiculous restrictions on "Freeview" boxes that prevent them from being able to automatically skip adverts.

I wonder, how good the hardware developers handled the noise issue with the hat being such close to the "noisy" Pi itself in comparison to USB dongles.

If you look at the PCB almost the whole back side of it is a ground plane and there are huge number of vias between the layers of the PCB.

And there's probably no reason you couldn't cut a piece of aluminum with a gap where the connectors are, maybe cover both sides with tape for insulating purposes and put it between. In fact you could carefully design an aluminum (or copper or PCB with soldered seams) box to sit on there. Or one step further put a header into it with bypass caps on appropriate pins.

It's a shame Freeview/FreeviewPlay don't sell a reasonable priced program to use, given most the TVs /boxes run Linux or Android in the background anyway.

I'm afraid that's not likely to happen. Freeview HD licensing mandates the ability to use DTCP copy protection DRM on all recordings made of Freeview HD content. That restricts playback of material to the device the material was originally recorded on. I don't see this really being a popular application...

There are also ridiculous restrictions on "Freeview" boxes that prevent them from being able to automatically skip adverts.

To be fair - given that Freeview is part-owned by ITV - you can see why they would want to avoid running a platform that helped reduce the income that they rely on to exist... They do let you FF through the ads, unlike some other platforms...

I currently have a RPi 3 set up with a Hauppauge WinTV-DualHD TV stick plugged in. I stream TV over the network using Plex. The Pi3 is just about managing to do the job, but it's not perfect. I've not tried it with two streams yet either.

Has anyone that has this been able to watch TV and give a typical CPU usage metric? Is this better optimised for the Pi or is this similar to the stick I have?

Regarding the antenna connection: I understand there is a female coax adapter included in the TV Hat kit, but is the connector actually on the TV Hat board known as an "MCX" socket, taking one of these plugs?:

( I plan to case the unit, and I will be looking for a short pigtail cable, with an MCX plug to panel-mounted coax socket. )

I currently have a RPi 3 set up with a Hauppauge WinTV-DualHD TV stick plugged in. I stream TV over the network using Plex. The Pi3 is just about managing to do the job, but it's not perfect. I've not tried it with two streams yet either.

Has anyone that has this been able to watch TV and give a typical CPU usage metric? Is this better optimised for the Pi or is this similar to the stick I have?

It's not not a question of the hardware (USB/Hat), but of the software you are using. I'm using a USV-Sat-TV-Box, MuMuDVB as backend software and my own frontend. Just for testing:
Streaming a complete transponder (7 HD channels), watching one channel locally (omxplayerGUI), two more on other computers (RPi, omxplayerGUI), running top:

I currently have a RPi 3 set up with a Hauppauge WinTV-DualHD TV stick plugged in. I stream TV over the network using Plex. The Pi3 is just about managing to do the job, but it's not perfect. I've not tried it with two streams yet either.

Has anyone that has this been able to watch TV and give a typical CPU usage metric? Is this better optimised for the Pi or is this similar to the stick I have?

TV Headend was using 30-40% CPU on a Pi 3B+ when streaming 3 DVB-T2 HD streams - BBC One HD, BBC Two HD and ITV HD - to three separate clients over Ethernet on my set-up, with no frame drops or corruption. A Pi Zero (with OTG Ethernet adaptor) was able to do the same without dropping frames or corruption too - but I forgot to run top on it. I ran out of clients to test with - but it looked to me as if streaming all 5 HD services on PSB3 (BBC One, BBC Two, ITV, C4 and C5 HD) might be feasible on a cabled 3B+ - though recording as well may push it hard (though that might depend whether you use a uSD card or USB storage)

Is your Plex install transcoding the received streams or just passing them through? If it's transcoding them - then the Pi may well run out of steam very quickly, particularly if the transcode is being done in software not the Pi GPU/VPU combo. If it's just passing them through untouched - then it should be fine - and I'd be surprised if it was struggling with a single stream - TV Headend can do at least 3 (and probably more)

AIUI Plex server often transcodes content - this may be the issue. (Transcoding needs a much more powerful platform than just streaming)

The major advantage of the TV uHAT over a USB DVB tuner is that the DVB transport stream (which can be up to 40.25Mbs) is not being carried over the Pi's single USB bus, and instead is being carried over SPI. This means that your full USB capacity is available for Ethernet and/or USB storage access.

Apart from shifting the bandwidth from the USB to SPI bus, the TV uHAT is doing pretty much the same thing as a USB DVB-T/T2 tuner, tuning the RF frequency, demodulating the DVB-T/T2 broadcasts to an MPEG2 transport streamm (*), and passing that transport stream across the USB or SPI bus to the Raspberry Pi.

Both the TV uHAT and many DVB-T/T2 USB dongles, I believe, offer optional PID filtering, where you can reduce the bandwidth of the transport stream being carried by filtering out PIDs of services you don't want/need, but AIUI this is optional and most DVB-T/T2 USB tuners and the TV uHAT can stream a full DVB-T/T2 mux transport stream. (This would allow you to demodulate PSB3 - which is a 40.25Mbs mux - but only send the PIDs (i.e. individual audio, video, subtitle and ancillary streams) for one channel - which would reduce the bitrate hugely. The PSB 3 HD video streams have an average bitrate of around 4.5Mbs - but can peak at over 16Mbs)

(*) Although the video and audio codecs used don't have to be MPEG2 or MP2 these days, when we also use H264/AVC and AAC audio, the transport stream standard we use is still based on the MPEG2 transport stream standard. (This can be confusing)

I have the TV HAT running on a Pi Zero and it's impressive how well it works. The Zero is quite happy streaming to four separate devices (and probably more) simultaneously. Like others have found, the picture is very jerky and unwatchable when using the tvheadend web server but is perfect when using VLC as a client.

One question: can anyone suggest a suitable case for the Zero with TV Hat?

Just an update. Have installed my uHAT back on a Pi Zero W and am testing with the internal WiFi (previously I've used cabled Ethernet)

BBC One HD is streaming to an iPhone (using the TVH client) - occasional drop outs - but very occasional. The Zero W's WiFi is 2.4GHz only (understandable for a tenner) but just about copes. Personally I think I'd stick with a Pi 3B+ if you want to use WiFi from the Pi (but if you have an OTG Ethernet adaptor for a Zero) you'll get decent streaming performance I'd suggest.

Did a bit more research using my OTG Ethernet adaptor + PSU combo (designed for a Google Chromecast - but works very well with a Zero)

Hmm, next you'll find a way to stream BBC One across the pond over internet. Video standards I can't use watching programs I can't get. Oh well, much wasted time any way, rotten grapes.

Oh - I've been doing that for quite a long time now I can watch any UK OTA channel wherever I am in the world thanks to a personal VPN server which lets me connect to my home LAN as if I were at home.

If I have decent broadband in the country I'm in I can watch at lossless quality, but if I'm bandwidth-poor my TV Headend server (running on an x86 box) can transcode to low bitrate MP4. (The Pi could probably do this with it's H264 encoder if it weren't for the requirement to deinterlace?)

(I originally had a DVB-T Slingbox 1st gen to do this - but the quality was not great. My home-made solution - coupled with broadband speeds increasing - is more satisfying. I've watched entire UK shows live from my hotel room via this route.)

I have the TV HAT running on a Pi Zero and it's impressive how well it works. The Zero is quite happy streaming to four separate devices (and probably more) simultaneously. Like others have found, the picture is very jerky and unwatchable when using the tvheadend web server but is perfect when using VLC as a client.

One question: can anyone suggest a suitable case for the Zero with TV Hat?

That's a good question. I imagine two slices of laser cut acrylic and modified stand-offs might be a solution ? That wouldn't be a full case but would afford some protection?

For the Pi 3B+ I can imagine a neat case with an MCX (I thought it was SMA but was wrong I believe) to Belling-Lee pigtail cable to allow the RF socket to be neatly mounted - rather than hard attached to the uHAT.

Hmm, next you'll find a way to stream BBC One across the pond over internet. Video standards I can't use watching programs I can't get. Oh well, much wasted time any way, rotten grapes.

You have to pay the GBP £150.50 BBC household tax (aka TV Licence) to be allowed to watch their output. Licences are only issued to UK residents with a UK post code. [There are some exceptions for blind, students and anyone over 74 years old.]

So sorry, you're not getting it streamed across the pond until I have to stop paying my BBC tax.

Note: Any requirement to use a crystal ball or mind reading will result in me ignoring your question.

I'll do your homework for you for a suitable fee.

Any DMs sent on Twitter will be answered next month.
All non-medical doctors are on my foes list.

I have the TV HAT running on a Pi Zero and it's impressive how well it works. The Zero is quite happy streaming to four separate devices (and probably more) simultaneously. Like others have found, the picture is very jerky and unwatchable when using the tvheadend web server but is perfect when using VLC as a client.

One question: can anyone suggest a suitable case for the Zero with TV Hat?

Oh - I've been doing that for quite a long time now I can watch any UK OTA channel wherever I am in the world thanks to a personal VPN server which lets me connect to my home LAN as if I were at home.
If I have decent broadband in the country I'm in I can watch at lossless quality, but if I'm bandwidth-poor my TV Headend server (running on an x86 box) can transcode to low bitrate MP4. (The Pi could probably do this with it's H264 encoder if it weren't for the requirement to deinterlace?)
(I originally had a DVB-T Slingbox 1st gen to do this - but the quality was not great. My home-made solution - coupled with broadband speeds increasing - is more satisfying. I've watched entire UK shows live from my hotel room via this route.)

Had the slingbox classic also, it was very good in analog times.
Could automatically adjust quality to bandwidth.
You could connect sky box or TV box, composite, and use remote control infer red remotely.
But it started to get hot, which is a dangerous sign. So its binned.
And before Raspberry PI, I had what was called a "plug computer" by Sheevaplug.

So yeah, I'm actually excited by this Raspberry TV Hat.
Hope it can tune in both Saorview and Freeview at same time.
Hope it can adjust to lower bandwidth for live.
Plan to use big harddisk and PVR.

Had the slingbox classic also, it was very good in analog times.
Could automatically adjust quality to bandwidth.
You could connect sky box or TV box, composite, and use remote control infer red remotely.
But it started to get hot, which is a dangerous sign. So its binned.

Yep - mine ran very hot, so was retired.

So yeah, I'm actually excited by this Raspberry TV Hat.
Hope it can tune in both Saorview and Freeview at same time.
Hope it can adjust to lower bandwidth for live.
Plan to use big harddisk and PVR.

No reason why you can't have both Freeview and Saorview in the same line-up - though you may have to manually edit channel numbers if the LCNs (broadcaster specified) channel numbers are duplicated on both platforms. As it's a single tuner you won't be able to watch/record channels on different frequencies at the same time though.

If you want to stream over the internet, and don't have a high bandwidth connection, then TV Headend will need to transcode to reduce the bitrate of the TV stream. The Pi may not be a great choice for this as it may run out of CPU power (there have been some experimental builds of TV Headend that use the Pi's internal H264 encoder to assist with this - but I don't think they handled interlace that well?) I'd only consider it with a 3B+ these days.

...
If you want to stream over the internet, and don't have a high bandwidth connection, then TV Headend will need to transcode to reduce the bitrate of the TV stream. The Pi may not be a great choice for this as it may run out of CPU power (there have been some experimental builds of TV Headend that use the Pi's internal H264 encoder to assist with this - but I don't think they handled interlace that well?) I'd only consider it with a 3B+ these days.

...
If you want to stream over the internet, and don't have a high bandwidth connection, then TV Headend will need to transcode to reduce the bitrate of the TV stream. The Pi may not be a great choice for this as it may run out of CPU power (there have been some experimental builds of TV Headend that use the Pi's internal H264 encoder to assist with this - but I don't think they handled interlace that well?) I'd only consider it with a 3B+ these days.

I've been playing with one of these attached to an original PiB+ (I think the oldest device it will work with?). Bought one out of interest to see how it stacks up against an XBox One TV tuner attached to my CM3-modded Slice running the latest LibreElec, which works well as a general purpose, family-friendly PVR and general video player.

It will, just about, both receive and play Live TV via Raspian Lite + tvheadend using either omxplayer (with a FIFO pipe as per instructions here: https://raspberrypi.stackexchange.com/q ... thout-kodi ) or pidvbip as per here: viewtopic.php?t=99011 (build using the GitHub fork in the latest post, and make sure you set gpu_mem to at least 128 to avoid baffling segfaults). Not sure either of these are really practical for day to day use, but quite impressed that it will work at all.

As a standalone tvheadend server it works brilliantly - attached to the same aerial (log periodic, medium signal strength) as the Xbox One tuner it seems to be slightly more stable / resilient (the Xbox tuner gets sporadic Transmission / Continuity errors, the TV Hat none) and as per other posts has the advantage that by using SPI rather than USB interface you should be able to serve / record more concurrent streams due to lower USB contention.

For the Pi 3B+ I can imagine a neat case with an MCX (I thought it was SMA but was wrong I believe) to Belling-Lee pigtail cable to allow the RF socket to be neatly mounted - rather than hard attached to the uHAT.

I too have been looking for an MCX-to-Belling-Lee pigtail, but can't find one that includes a panel-mounted Belling-Lee anywhere. May have to make one up from components.

For the Pi 3B+ I can imagine a neat case with an MCX (I thought it was SMA but was wrong I believe) to Belling-Lee pigtail cable to allow the RF socket to be neatly mounted - rather than hard attached to the uHAT.

I too have been looking for an MCX-to-Belling-Lee pigtail, but can't find one that includes a panel-mounted Belling-Lee anywhere. May have to make one up from components.

There are few MCX to F-types around, and Belling to F-type adaptors and cables are available. That might be a solution?

You can also get MCX to SMA bulkhead pigtails - which might also be a neat solution?

For a neat solution (acceptable to SWMBO) I was thinking of mounting a Pi+TVhat in an old set-top Freeview tuner box (available at all good car-boots for a quid or two). But the Belling-Lee sockets on those are usually either PCB-mounted or fixed to a UHF tuner module - not much use.

Last edited by mooblie on Tue Oct 30, 2018 9:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.