Let’s Try This One More Time…

Over the last 24 hours I’ve been called a “moron” and “ignorant.” I’ve been told by Christian brothers and sisters they will no longer use my Bible-teaching resources with their children.

Why? Because of the post I wrote yesterday stating my concern that white Christians have lost some credibility in the world by supporting a candidate for president whose campaign was tinged with racism. Many jumped to the conclusion that I was saying all Trump voters are racists. That is not what I said. I didn’t even say that Donald Trump was racist, though clearly some of his off-the-cuff statements fit that description.

I’m not saying Donald Trump is racist, or that his campaign was racist. I’ll let others come to their own conclusions about that. I’m saying that at times his campaign gave the impression of being racist, and impressions matter. You may have attended a Trump rally and found it to be nothing but good, clean American fun. Some of his rallies gave a very different impression.

So what was I really trying to say yesterday? That we white Christians have some explaining to do to convince our non-white brothers and sisters that our support for Trump was not support for his perceived racism, sexism or xenophobia. That our support for making America “great again” isn’t code for turning back the clock on racial and gender progress.

The witness of the church is more important than any election, any public policy, any economic plan. And right now, many of our non-white brothers and sisters are deeply confused, and more than a little frightened. Do we really welcome them here? When 90% of black evangelicals opposed a candidate whom 80% of white evangelicals supported, can we really say the body of Christ is colorblind?

Feel free to disagree, but that was my point. We have created distrust for the church while pursuing an effort to become “great again,” whatever that means.

I’m concerned for the witness of the gospel. We need to explain to our neighbors why our support for this man wasn’t a sign of our rejection of them. Because at the end of the day, it doesn’t matter what we think we look like to the alien, the widow, the orphan, the outcast. It matters what they see when they look at us.

I may, in fact, be a moron. I’m sure I often am. But I don’t think I’m a moron about this.

93 Comments

I didn’t disagree yesterday, and still don’t. Not only nonwhite Christians, but young believers are going to be much more difficult to convince that the church is worth their allegiance. They were already incredibly tough, as you know. Now? Whatever illusional power we’ve gained from that deal is going to be lost when there is no one following us.

Thank you for bringing clarity, Phil. I heard from different people last night who have good reason to be scared. There needs to be patience and healing. Hopefully better economic times removes some of the anger, but there is much of it deeply entrenched on both sides. Change and love (in the agape sense) are the best tools I can muster right move.

I am a white, male follower of Christ who found the justifications of the Supreme Court nominees to be a weak argument for voting for Trump. There was much about Trump I could not get past – his buffoonish nature, his coarse talk, and an economically dumb idea about immigration. I could also not get past Hillary’s “government-solves-everything” tone, the handout goodies or the specter of Elizabeth Warren running down business. So I voted for neither candidate. That said, some real damage has been done here and also a real opportunity to show the power of the love of Jesus Christ. I suppose I will lose some Christian friends in the coming months – so be it. I will gain (hopefully) new friends from differing cultural backgrounds and learn to listen better than I have in the past.

Your article was very thought provoking and I want to ask you to help! Instead of talking and fighting we need to do something to over ride this horrible place we are in. Please form a plan that we can channel all this fear and anger into. Many people like me would jump on board if a kindness, love and acceptance movement so to speak would start. The wounds will only get deeper if we don’t act and counteract them soon. Just a note, the Republicans fought Trump with all their might, but we are where we are at for many reasons. Everyone needs to calm down and be part of the solution, not continue on both sides to be part of the problem. I can reach out and show I care, but I am only one person and we need to bind together, showing the world in large numbers we are not all the horrible things they call us. You are so right, the church has some explaining to do, but we have more, we have to join together and make a statement that is big enough that it will be seen and heard.

Understandable. The concerns stated makes sense. I think we have lost the ability to debate, not necessary agree, but learn from one another. It’s really a shame, because that what makes America great.

The rights we have to openly discuss the gospel and how this influences, rather directs our actions and thoughts, trying to be an example for real change…God working in people’s hearts.

Hey, Phil! I did not vote for either presidential candidate and I understand what you’re saying, but I just heard some statistics about the African American and Latino vote FOR Trump on Tuesday, which were rather surprising: The African American vote for Trump surpassed Romney’s numbers which is partially what contributed to HRC’s loss since Democrats depend on 90+ percent of the African American vote to hit their numbers. The Latino vote for Trump also surpassed Romney’s. Initially, everyone thought it was over for Trump because of the media reports that there was such a heavy Latino turnout in Florida. It turns out about 1 out of every 3 Latinos were voting for Trump. Also, during the campaign, Trump talked about urban renewal in the inner cities, creating jobs, getting help for addiction, etc. which is a message black clergy agreed with and took back to their congregations. At any rate, while I may not agree with your message 100%, you’re a great thinker and creator and I will definitely continue to support you and your products!

I’m a middle class white American in Georgia and as I prayed and asked for wisdom, which God promises to give us liberally if we ask, I made one of the most polarizing choices in my life for my context, I opted out of my right to vote this year. I believe many in my context have voted for Trump because they are strong pro-lifers and are disgusted by the idea of late term abortion which I am definitely not for either but I think it is short sighted to minimize “pro-life” to a conversation about abortion. To be pro-life is to promote life in all people including the unborn, the people of color, the police, the sojourner, and the middle class white American. I hope we can enter into a dialogue that is truly pro-life where we actively let go of our rights in pursuit of another’s well being. After all that’s what Jesus modeled for us: 5 Have this mind among yourselves, which is yours in Christ Jesus,
6 who, though he was in the form of God, did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped,
7 but emptied himself, by taking the form of a servant, being born in the likeness of men.
8 And being found in human form, he humbled himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross. – Philippians 2:5-8

Anyway, amidst all the noise and all the hate and all the, “if we had lost we wouldn’t be rioting in the streets” nonsense that I’m sitting in at the moment, I just wanted to say thanks for this post and I don’t think your a moron. The world has always thought the ones who can transcend the popular we’re crazy, but we have them to thank for positive change. Rest in that, rest in Jesus, and let’s get busy loving those who need that rest the most. Tell Skye and Christian hello! Skye was very helpful in solidifying the decision to not vote. His article was a great confirmation to what God was stirring in me. Grateful for you.

***BRAVE, not “brace.”
Brave, given the environment you must be in. I would add one more thing… you say let’s not minimize “pro-life” to a conversation about abortion.
I am definitely pro-life, & I won’t minimize this into a yes/no question of whether the individual in the White House, who was pro-choice as recently as a year ago, now says that the legality of abortion should be up to the states, not the Supreme Court. This would be the effect IF Roe v Wade were overturned. And it’s a far cry from actually saving unborn lives.

This white Christian gal 100% agrees with you. I am an educator in a public school, I have a master’s in psychology and I have a gay mixed raced son. You understand white privildege. unfortunately most whites do not. While the election has me troubled for many reasons–my greatest pain is seeing how my fellow brothers and sisters have acted–not Christ like. I’m grieved mostly by this. Thank you for taking a stand for Christ.

Thank you, Phil. I’ve been a regular listener of your podcast for over a year now. It is so refreshing to hear you all discuss issues in our church and culture in a humorous and insightful way.

I am a young, POC, conservative Christian woman. I have been deeply saddened and troubled with the state of American politics over the past several years, and it culminated with the results of Tuesday night. I am disappointed with our country, the GOP, but even more with American Christianity. The election showed to me that many in the religious right cared more about party loyalty and defeating Hillary (and, dare I say, their whiteness) than they did about the Constitution, their faith, even just basic human decency. They responded in fear instead of love, contrary to what Jesus commanded us.

The saddest thing is I don’t feel that my Christian community (especially in the conservative South where I live) offers me a safe place to voice my feelings. All my friends are celebrating the defeat of Hillary, while my heart is breaking for what this means for our country and the American church. Your blog was one of the first places I turned to after the election because I knew I would find someone who understood. So, thank you for taking a stand for your non-white brothers and sisters in Christ. Keep up the good work! We are going to need voices like yours now more than ever. I pray that the American church will listen to those voices who are hurting right now.

P.S. While this election has caused me to lose my faith in American Christianity, I do not lose my faith in Jesus. This election shows us that we need the kingdom of God to be fully culminated here on earth. So, my prayer is: Come quickly, Lord Jesus.

I had many of the same concerns about the Tea Party movement in general. We had a Tea Party rally about 6 years ago that was in an abandon lot that was right outside one of the Mexican centers in a town near us. This same town has a meat packing facility and have Hispanics, Laotians, Somalis, Sudanese. Going into WalMart is fascinating and I love it.

We forget about those that are different than us whether color, economics, education etc. As we look at Making America Great we cannot forget about those that think America is and always will be against them.

As a church we maybe need to not worry about dropping multi millions into buildings and figure out how to truly reach out to those in our communities that need reached out to.

You can’t explain away the fact that Trump’s campaign purposefully stoked the fire of racism and many of his supporters openly proclaimed their racist views. If you supported Trump and are not racist, then you marched to the beat of a racist drum and that makes you complicit. I pray that God saves your soul and all the souls of who went down this road.

I am a fan, Phil, from way back. You are not a moron… clearly! You are right, and indeed it DOES matter what people see, hear, and think when they look at us. Please don’t back away and as Jared just said, keep up the good work.

P.S. For a bit of sunshine in your day… 🙂 My grandchildren, now 12, have been in my care pre-school and after-school since they were 3. They grew up watching VeggieTales. Here’s a note from those early years.

May 25, 2010 Bryan is watching a VeggieTales video in which the characters sing a song about the Promised Land. Afterward he asks, “Grammy, what is the ‘Promise Land’?”

I launch into a rather complicated monologue about how the Israelites wandered around in the desert, all the time wishing they could just stay in one place, live in a house, and eat their food from a grill, (I was following the lyrics of the videos) waiting to enter the Promised Land.

When I was done, Bryan said, “Oh.” Then, reflectively, “Rachel said it’s where all the promises come from.”

Another excellent post, but probably unnecessary. The people who got their panties in a twist yesterday will probably do the same today. I have very little faith that the 80% of white evangelicals that voted for Trump are even real Christians. There’s a big difference between the institutional church in America and the real world-wide body of believers in Jesus Christ who love him and try to keep his commands. People worried about their political power and cultural influence (not to mention their fear for their own pathetic personal safety) can hardly be called followers of Christ. All you have to do is look back to the nineties and the things the Christian Right were saying about Clinton’s character to comprehend the magnitude of hypocrisy they’re capable of. The American institutional church aren’t the disciples, they’re the Pharisees…
And before anybody rips on me about “judgement”, you need to read scripture a little closer. We’re supposed to judge justly and judge those INSIDE the church, and by our actions, not our words…

I neither consider you a moron or any other such term. However, I do respectfully disagree with your conclusion on some of this. I believe that you painted (much more yesterday than today) with a very broad brush that it is about racial divide. In some parts of the country, that may be very true, and especially that seems to be the case in the major metropolitan areas of the country that mostly voted for Clinton.

I live in an area of the “Old South” that has worked very hard to overcome the racial divides that seem to be sprouting up all around the country. And we are doing it with quite a bit of success even though there will always be pockets on any extreme that will not join in. In our county, over 85 percent of registered voters voted. It was almost an even split between white and non-white voters. Nearly 70% of the vote went to Mr. Trump, and I know that not all white voters in this area were Trump supporters not all black voters were Clinton supporters. The draw of Trump over Clinton in this area of the country had little to do with racial divides and had to do more with local people wanting a POTUS who they believed will create a better job-friendly environment so we can better take care of our families. The desire to take care of our families over-rode so much of this.

You stated today: “The witness of the church is more important than any election, any public policy, any economic plan. And right now, many of our non-white brothers and sisters are deeply confused, and more than a little frightened. Do we really welcome them here? When 90% of black evangelicals opposed a candidate whom 80% of white evangelicals supported, can we really say the body of Christ is colorblind?” I am in agreement with your first statement about the witness of the church. We (the church) often get off message. However, your questions may be questions for your area and many areas. I get that, but I still think that the brush they are painted with is too broad.

Honestly, based on public actions and some reported private actions of both Trump and Clinton, I highly doubt Christian faith is a serious part of either’s life.

The other broad brush that I don’t think was a good choice for prove your point is the clip you used from the documentary “13th.” Here is why: Almost every clip of Trump and Trump rallies used to demonstrate his perceived sexism, racism, xenophobia, etc. are pulled from within a much bigger context that will show a much different story. Also, in the last couple of weeks, the fact that most of the racial fights outside/at Trump rallies were instigated by workers related to the Clinton Campaign who were paid to go out and start the fights and make it look like they were Trump supporters starting the fights. This created a false narrative.

Now, are there people who are racists who voted for Trump? I have not doubt. Are there people who are racists who voted for Clinton, or Johnson, or any of the other minor candidates? Again, I have no doubt. Did I vote for Clinton? No. Did I vote for Trump? No. Even if David Duke made his claim that it was because of “his people” that Trump won, there is a big difference between David Duke making that claim and Donald Trump being all the things people accuse him of being.

Honestly, I believe that any Christian voting for either one of them has much explaining to do…

I do agree with your bottom line that the Church MUST get back on its mission and look less to political candidates for help. However, I respectfully disagree with the racist slant that you placed on this.

I would like you to follow this up with how you propose this. There are some facts we have to address here, the biggest of which the perception of the campaign was created by a lying media and the refusal of most to not get beyond their own view point (and yes we are guilty of not understanding at times as well). I think I understand your concern here, but the stories I have been getting as a Pastor as to why this perception exists from members of my congregation do not put the onus on the church, but rather a progressive movement that has infiltrated the media, education, and press.

One such story is of a mixed race boy in our church who wanted to vote for Hillary Clinton in the straw poll at his school. When his grandmother asked him why he said because his teacher was telling him that Donald Trump wants to deport everyone who is not white. Where is the church complicit in this? How do you tell people who think they know better that, in fact, they have been lied to and expect them to believe it?

I would like you to clarify something. Assuming what you said about Mr. Trump is all true, that he is a racist and offensive to almost everyone and that 80% of white evangelicals supported him, what does that mean to me?

When you say ‘we as the church have some explaining to do’, do you mean denominations, all churches, or all Christians as individuals? Does that mean because Mr. Gallup decided I fall into a group, I have to explain, defend or are somehow accountable for what someone else who happens to be in the same group says?

While I voted the same as you for many of the same reasons, I wouldn’t fault anyone that voted for either of them. it is very possible for Christians to have different political views and not be divided. I wish it was the same for baseball teams.

After yesterday – Women are very concerned, minorities are concerned, LGBT are concerned, Democrats are concerned, many other countries are concerned (NATO/Free trade agreements), and Trump said he is a “gatherer- I bring people together” he said. I guess it is now time to prove it. The world is watching. Let the reconciliation begin!

Hi Phil. I know you’ve taken what looks like quite a beating for your opinion, so I’m guessing you’re pretty thick skinned by now, though hopefully your not hard-hearted! I disagree with what you wrote before. Maybe my example would shed some light on why I do, and why I voted like I did.

in my mid 20’s I attended culinary school and took out a huge loan I could not pay back. I was going to an unpaid internship in the morning, school in the afternoon, and cooked well into the night at a restaurant. I didn’t graduate because I chose the school of hard knocks in the fine dining world instead of finishing. That means I worked for long hours with little pay for around seven years. i was committed to learning everything about food, and I didn’t have the time or perspective to realize why I was getting paid so little. I quit fine dining soon after I married my wife and I found work in a college dining hall. I did not strive to learn and hone cooking and baking skills for all those years to end up tossing nuggets General Tso’s chicken for 1000 freshman. Now I am a stay at home dad. The Art Institute, my university, was sued by the government because of pressure tactics and selling an education that ultimately would not earn the money needed to pay for it.That’s good news! However, now I’m 36, I can cook, but I have no degree. I need another chance. I do not think the democrats will get me that opportunity. It is nice being a stay at home dad, the Veggietales are fun to watch with my 1 and 3 year old. Larryboy is a hit. Your book and you are inspirational to me, and I watch and read your stuff because you love Jesus, and you have a fresh perspective. The fact that you are not in the pca, I overlook. Kidding.

I voted for Cruz in the primary. I wanted anyone but Trump. A vote for Hillary was for her and all of her agenda, to say otherwise is simply not correct. I vacillated with each headline and recording of Trump saying awful things. In the end, I felt that I would be a moralist if I didn’t vote for him because of his behavior. The bible tells me of my need for grace, just as much as it tells me Of President Elect Trump’s.

My grandfather was an immigrant; he was a plumber. On his card, he called himself Dummy Crescenzi, because he knew that Domenico was too much for the average central Pennsylvanian in the 1950’s.

On the deed of my grandfather in law’s house in New Jersey, it states: No cows, no pig farms, no chickens, no Italians. I tell you this because I understand where your coming from, but I can tell my Muslim or whatever neighbor why I voted for him with no regrets.

If Trump turns out to be a viper, that’s on his soul and God will judge him for that. I voted for him because I hope that he isn’t. Thanks for allowing me to reply, and keep it up brother!

Toning down the needless rhetoric from yesterday’s post is a positive. I still completely reject your strawman that to be a Christian you had to do… what? Vote for Hillary? Vote independent? Not vote??? There is no middle ground in your position. Either we voted for Trump and we have to goto every non-white and explain away the error of pur ways or we have to be ashamed of ourselves and slink into a corner? Why is it an either or proposition? Also your reference to Bill Clinton is a complete red herring. Bill Clinton ACTUALLY cheated on his wife on multiple occasions and lied about, ACTUALLY raped women and lied about it, and ACTUALLY perjured himself under oath after doing these things while president. Trump is guilty of 1) SAYING despicable things and 2) having a much younger third wife. Uhmmm…. As far as the gulf between white evangelicals and black evangelicals and their voting tendencies, this goes back farther than just this year. I’d be interested in finding out when the last time a majority of black Christians voted for a Republican president because a plurality of blacks have been voting Democrat since at least the 50’s so I’m not sure why “I” have some explaining to do. Or maybe I’m just a fake Christian as one of your respondents attests. Really funny that when Barack Obama was elected all the Republicans were told its time to suck it up, realize that we bigotedly didn’t vote for the correct candidate, admit that we lost and get over it. When Trump wins, the Earth has comes to an end and its time for all Trump knuckle dragging, racist, troglodyte voters to beg for forgiveness while 1000’s of “thoughtful and learned” Democrats riot in the streets.

Did you have permission from the women pictured to alter their shirts via Photoshop, thereby directly attributing a racist motivation to their support of Trump? This altered photo could be lifted and re-posted anywhere, falsely maligning these women, whom I presume you do not know personally. I have no idea what the legalities are, but at the least, this demonstrates a reckless disregard for these women and their reputations. The point could have been made without this.

*Edit to add–You could have buttressed your case using merely the words of both the original slogan and the “as seen by some” rendition of the slogan. Not as visually powerful, but more respectful of these women of whom you apparently know nothing about.

Phil your 13th clip features what can easily be deemed as “bird dogging” as project veritas had pointed out in its undercover footage. Those inciting the crowds and creating police unrest in Chicago admit to it. They were even fired for it. They paid many people money to incite riots at the rallies. How can you trust what your seeing on video was not the actions of the DNC planting disruption. Your basis for your argument is flawed. Its all on video. come on man. We had 2 rallies here at regent. the my buddy stood in from of a woman holding a pro trump sign. When we looked at a photo of the rally it had a picture of hillary with a target on her head that must have been photoshopped on. We all couldn’t believe it man. It was a total lie. I am disgusted with how trump supporters have been misrepresented and maligned by main street media. The is nothing wrong with our moral compass. Most of us were voting for a profile cause in hillary was pro partial birth abortion. She also wanted a not fly zone in Syria. Our generals and military strategist all made no bones about it:that would have lead to a war of some sorts with Russia. So no I don’t feel bad as a christian for endorsing trump. As you can see people are tired of the preaching of values against the character of those who would or did vote for trump. I know you are a passionate guy and you are certainly one of the more intelligent people I have ever known. Your a very good man and people ought to respect that you have spent your life trying to create a loving culture for children to grow up in. To reject Phils products because of this one point of view in a blog post is just silly. If you are a trump supporter and want to turn on phil for this one blog post than shame on you. Our new president elect needed your forgiveness may many times in order to achieve the high office he was given. Phil is accorded the same mercy. He has proven to have good fruits to his career. Trump is a great american experiment currently. Might be great, might be bad.If he turns out to be half as positive as Phil has been on society then we will be fortunate.

Amen, amen, amen.
Thank you for articulating this both yesterday and today. As a white Christian who never supported Trump, and who was always deeply troubled by his rhetoric, I’m struggling to figure out how to exactly pick up the pieces around me. Especially when it comes to my ‘minority’ friends and neighbors, and how I show Christ’s love to them. I am grieved and so confused the level of evangelicals who were willing to threw in their weight together with the KKK for a candidate, and how that paints the church in everyone’s eyes. Hurting, praying, and trying to respond wisely.

Phil, your voice is so appreciated. Thank you for standing up for what you believe in (and goodness, your opinions are so reasonably stated, it’s disappointing that they’re taken so controversially). As a minority person and follower of Jesus, I am grateful that your understanding of the Christian family is one of inclusivity to other cultures. As a Veggietales fan, podcast listener, and a father of young kids that now watch your shows, I just want to say Go Phil!

Hey, Phil. I just wanted to say I really appreciate the concerns you’re raising with your articles.

I haven’t been keeping up with your podcasts and posts lately – I actually just wandered over here after hearing “The Battle Is Not Ours” from Esther for the first time in years. That song is such a memorably gorgeous representation of surrender and steadfastness in trying times. From the bottom of my heart, thank you, Phil, for always creating works that consistently point to God – from my early childhood to my adulthood.

I like this better than your first attempt.
I think you need to consider the words of Mike Rowe which for me nail it:

Mike Rowe
16 hrs ·
Off The Wall

Hey Mike. You’ve been very quiet. Everything OK? I just wanted you to know that I voted for you. I was also hoping you might explain what the hell happened on Tuesday, and say something to make me feel better about my fellow man. Thanks,
Carol Savoy

Hi Carol

Last Friday, my dog posted a video that featured a man licking a cat with the aid of a device that’s designed for the specific purpose of making it easier for people to lick their cats.I’ve been silent ever since, because frankly, I couldn’t think of a better way – metaphorical or otherwise – to express my feelings about this election cycle. The entire country it seems, has been preoccupied with finding a way to lick a cat without actually putting their tongue on it.

Too oblique? Too weird? Ok, how about this analysis:

Back in 2003, a very unusual TV pilot called Dirty Jobs, Forrest-Gumped its way onto The Discovery Channel and found an audience – a big one. For Discovery, this was a problem. You see, Dirty Jobs didn’t look like anything else on their channel. It wasn’t pretty or careful. It took place in sewers and septic tanks, and featured a subversive host in close contact with his 8-year old inner child who refused to do second takes. Everyone agreed that Dirty Jobs was totally “off-brand” and completely inappropriate for Discovery. Everyone but the viewers. The ratings were just too big to ignore, so the pilot got a green-light, and yours truly finally got a steady gig.

But here’s the thing – Dirty Jobs didn’t resonate because the host was incredibly charming. It wasn’t a hit because it was gross, or irreverent, or funny, or silly, or smart, or terribly clever. Dirty Jobs succeeded because it was authentic. It spoke directly and candidly to a big chunk of the country that non-fiction networks had been completely ignoring. In a very simple way, Dirty Jobs said “Hey – we can see you,” to millions of regular people who had started to feel invisible. Ultimately, that’s why Dirty Jobs ran for eight seasons. And today, that’s also why Donald Trump is the President of the United States.

I know people are freaked out, Carol. I get it. I’m worried too. But not because of who we elected. We’ve survived 44 Presidents, and we’ll survive this one too. I’m worried because millions of people now seem to believe that Trump supporters are racist, xenophobic, and uneducated misogynists. I’m worried because despising our candidates publicly is very different than despising the people who vote for them.

Last week, three old friends – people I’ve known for years – each requested to be “unfriended” by anyone who planned on voting for Trump. Honestly, that was disheartening. Who tosses away a friendship over an election? Are my friends turning into those mind-numbingly arrogant celebrities who threaten to move to another country if their candidate doesn’t win? Are my friends now convinced that people they’ve known for years who happen to disagree with them politically are not merely mistaken – but evil, and no longer worthy of their friendship?

For what it’s worth, Carol, I don’t think Donald Trump won by tapping into America’s “racist underbelly,” and I don’t think Hillary lost because she’s a woman. I think a majority of people who voted in this election did so in spite of their many misgivings about the character of both candidates. That’s why it’s very dangerous to argue that Clinton supporters condone lying under oath and obstructing justice. Just as it’s equally dangerous to suggest a Trump supporter condones gross generalizations about foreigners and women.

These two candidates were the choices we gave ourselves, and each came with a heaping helping of vulgarity and impropriety. Yeah, it was dirty job for sure, but the winner was NOT decided by a racist and craven nation – it was decided by millions of disgusted Americans desperate for real change. The people did not want a politician. The people wanted to be seen. Donald Trump convinced those people that he could see them. Hillary Clinton did not.

As for me, I’m flattered by your support, but grateful that your vote was not enough to push me over the top. However, when the dust settles, and The White House gets a new tenant, I’ll make the same offer to President Trump that I did to President Obama – to assist as best I can in any attempt to reinvigorate the skilled trades, and shine a light on millions of good jobs that no one seems excited about pursuing. http://bit.ly/2fG1SxI

Like those 3 million “shovel ready” jobs we heard so much about eight years ago, the kind of recovery that Donald Trump is promising will require a workforce that’s properly trained and sufficiently enthused about the opportunities at hand. At the moment, we do not have that work force in place. What we do have, are tens of millions of capable people who have simply stopped looking for work, and millions of available jobs that no one aspires to do. That’s the skills gap, and it’s gotta close. If mikeroweWORKS can help, we’re standing by.

If not, I suppose we’ll just have to find another way to lick the cat.

Some are saying you did not need to write this clarification. You did.

In your previous post, you were on your high horse from the first sentence. Now, that may have been tongue in cheek, but we can’t hear that when you’re typing. That opening, the content that followed, along with an internet of angry voices that have been typing away since the decision, made it feel as if you were yet another voice raining down more accusations, blame, and shame.

This post was much better. The feeling of finger pointing was replaced with a feeling of head scratching. It made all the difference. Instead of “what have *you* done by aligning with racism?” this is “what can *we* do to prevent possible perceptions of racism?” I hear that. I watched the linked video. So, yes, with gentleness and respect, let’s find a way not only to answer regarding a decision between two awful choices, but to tell that our reason for hope is, thankfully, in neither of them, but in Jesus.

Hi, Phil! Wow! Long long time no see! When we returned from mission work overseas in ’94, I couldn’t believe that talking vegetables could entertain kids and adults, but I was quickly shown wrong. We’ve loved them! Your book Me, Myself, and Bob was excellent as well. I appreciated your honesty. I’m sorry for any insults thrown your way in this feed. That only inflames and hurts the body of Christ as a whole!

So, in the interest of greater understanding, I’ve read both of these 2 posts and every single comment, (save one that was just way too long). It’s now 4 AM and I’m to be up again in 4 hours. I cringe to hear people say that it’s nonchristian to vote a certain way, yet some said it, and the divide gets bigger. For that reason, Rich’s post above gets my highest regard. He spoke frankly and respectfully. If he’s not a friend, recruit him as one! : ) James (the lego man) below gets lots of points for succinct truth. I haven’t yet heard your response to so many saying that they felt stuck between a rock and a hard place regarding cherished values in this election. To minimize that struggle is to demonize everyone who felt God leading them to a different path than yours. Those in these comments who are calling others Pharisees sound like Pharisees themselves instead of finding a way to consider others as better than ourselves. (For the sake of readers here, respecting each other, by the way, does not call for accepting and applauding what the Bible calls sin, for who we are is so much more than how we view our world!

All of this brings us back to the reason you wrote in the first place: loving well those of color and expanding our witness. Victor’s points are worth considering, or attempts to love are not loving at all. But, here’s the deal, Phil, while your concern is very legitimate, the facts reveal a story that is not nearly so “black and white.” I quote here a person with a career in missions: “29% of latins, 29% of asians, 9% of blacks, and 12% of LGBT voted for Trump. If these minority numbers had been just a little lower, Trump would have lost!”

Perhaps racism wasn’t as much an issue in the votes as you or the media purport! I pray we all consider carefully how we can forge new pathways across all lines and not add to division.

Thanks for the note! Just to be clear, I’m not saying racism was a big issue in the vote. I’m saying it was PERCEIVED as a big issue in the vote, and that perception reflects poorly on the church. Trump HAS seen more enthusiasm from white nationalists and white supremacists than any recent candidate due to his inflammatory rhetoric, but those groups don’t make up a large enough part of the electorate to seriously affect the outcome. Hope that helps.

The nature of your most recent podcast is sufficient explanation of how you are looking upon people who made a different voting decision than you. I know it is a conversation between friends but I hope that you will go back and listen to it, put in context with your previous blog post, and consider whether you are clinging to logical fallacies you would otherwise be quick to separate yourself from. And whether the logic is there or not (it is not in many cases), the giggling and condescending nature of the conversation was telling, offensive, and hurtful to those who made a different decision than you. The irony here is you are “giving the impression” of contempt toward the Church who supposedly voted for Trump en masse – if you can believe the same pollsters who made you feel a Clinton victory was assured and a no-vote was acceptable moral high ground.

For me it came down the fact that I believe Trump could win and that a no-vote could have resulted in a win for H. Clinton which I judged to be a worse choice for the well being of humanity IN REALITY. Living by how other perceive that choice is a no-win situation. The world/media will hate the word of God and those who follow it and always work to skew fact and demonize those of faith. The truth of the gospel mattered more to Jesus than the impressions of people who would judge him, and your podcast group described the church as “lacking in discipleship” because of an impression that a vote for a white man aligns us with the KKK.

I might come back for some entertainment in the future just like I’ll watch a SNL skit on occasion, but you and Skye have lost me as influencers short of a sincere turn-back from that last podcast.

I think you are taking too much on yourself to use your forum of celebrity to “broadbrush” a possible problem. I, as a “White Evangelical Christian” feel no compunction to question my motives. I have never, in all my 40+ years with Jesus, treated anyone differently due to any difference from myself. I have hatred of racism in anyone and see that people of color are far more racist than any white people I know. I have never denigrated women, or Hispanics, or Gay Folk, or anyone. I hate sin in anyone, but, love Jesus enough to allow them time to repent.

Again, I say you are focusing too much mindless thought on a POSSIBLE problem. Maybe the problem is in your heart and you are projecting. Just thinking.

FWIW, I think it would make for an interesting podcast if you had a larger discussion of “How can you be a Christian and vote Democrat/Republican when the party supports ‘X'” with just normal, non-acedemic people on both sides. I would warch that! Oh, and I forgot to say above – we are still friends and I’ll still watch every single one of your podcasts like I have since you went to video.

Dear Phil,
First , I want to say I have watched your pod casts occasionally with my son. I have aways enjoyed it. I’ve also loved your messages ie. at Liberty U. Your testimony is always inspiring to me. My husband and I raised our children on Veggie Tales. What’s in the Bible is a wonderful resource too .Our family enjoys watching those on Sundays.
I think we will continue to enjoy all of these despite our surprise and disappointment at your attitude.
This election has been really rough on us all. The decision to vote for Trump did not come easily. I was in favor of Carson or Cruz as were much of my extended family. My parents decided they would vote for Trump but (especially my Mom) said they’d be “holding their noses while they voted”.
To me and most people I know who voted for Trump , it was paramount that Hillary not become president ( though if she had, we would have to just carry on the best we could) She is radically pro- choice ! She said in a speech that Christians were going to HAVE to change their minds in favor of abortion (not necessarily the same words but that’s what she meant).I believe abortion is the worst of America’s sins. It’s nothing less then human sacrifice to the humanistic gods: self, convenience and money. You don’t have any argument with that ? Right?
This is just the tip of the iceberg with Hillary. It can all be boiled down to – she is a crook.
Donald Trump has many faults. I think he has said things he should not have said – things that could be easily misunderstood.
So he just became pro- life last year -at least he did. There have been many young women who were headed for an abortion who became pro-life when they were properly informed. So, I guess he became properly informed. Now he has people around him who will hold him accountable to that. There were no other candidates who had any chance. Gary Johnson for instance, is “personally pro- life” but believes a woman has the right to choose. What kind of stand is THAT?
There has been word that he has recently become a christian. I know, we are sceptical of this. I believe in grace and we wait we see. Some great christian men say they are witness to his profession for Christ. Again, wait and see and pray .
Is he racist? I watched that video you posted and it looks bad but then who has come along side him? Ben Carson and other christian black folk who made themselves known on FB. I think the crooked media has something to do with these racist reports.
If brown folks are scared they need to to reassured by us as best we can. It’s ILLEGAL immigrants that need to worry but not about me – I can’t make that judgment. Refugees? Well, if that’s what they ARE , I hope we can help them somehow. There need to be safe guards – a probation of sorts. We don’t want them to just come in and do what ever they please.
The KKK ? Trump can’t be held responsible for them voting for him.They certainly would not vote Hillary.
LGBT? I doubt that anyone of consequence has any plans to endanger their lives or lively hood. Personally,I just want them to stop demanding special treatment; not be allowed to redefine marriage and family. I don’t want what happened in England to happen here – preventing christians from fostering or adopting if they are against homosexuality and the like. I can live them in my community ( sing with some in our community choir). They may even attend church with me , if they don’t try to make trouble, don’t expect to become members or have a leadership role. When I was at Liberty back in the 80’s , I knew a guy who had homosexual temptation. He was allowed to stay as long as he did not act on them and was in counseling.
I think what I find especially offensive is your condescending attitude towards that 80% of evangelicals. The sweeping judgment of our knowledge and spiritual maturity. After all , so many of us have enjoyed and benefited from your What’s in The Bible series. It has been a nice review for me since my time at Liberty and christian schools pre- college.
I think your blog post and pod cast were poorly timed. You were all still too emotional – especially the woman. I love you in the Lord but your facial expressions along with your words betrayed your disdain for your christian brothers’ and sisters’ foolishness. This would be better kept in the privacy of your home or small group of like minded friends – not displayed publicly
on a pod cast. As previously stated, the blog post was also poorly timed. If you had waited you may have not said things that ticked people off so. If only the first post were more like the second.
We will continue to enjoy the fruits of your ministry because it’s good stuff. That’s grace – To God be the Glory! I pray there will be many more who will exercise this grace and that ministry will not suffer.

You were right before, and you’re right now. I wish people would stop for two seconds and realize the potential fear they had for a Clinton presidency is the realized fear of many for a trump presidency. And to top it off, to feel abandoned by the church.

I am an Asian American Christian living in San Francisco. I have been in turmoil over this election and voted for neither candidate. I’m also a fairly new Christian who did not grow up in the church; I accepted Christ in my mid twenties.

In college, I was a member of a sorority. It was a special time for me because being part of a sorority meant having a shared identity with sisters across the nation. I could meet a sister on the other side of the country and immediately bond with her because we had a shared set of values and joint mission. When I became a Christian I was so excited to find this again. A shared identity in Christ and and shared mission from the bible; what could be stronger?

However; after this election I have been devastated. I am questioning if evangelicals really have a shared mission from Jesus after all or if the evangelical church is more concerned with gaining and retaining power. Because I was taught that Jesus changed hearts and minds with His love and compassion, he didn’t force his agenda onto others using dominant political structures at the expense of marginalizing other communities. My Christian minority friends have already experienced racial slurs shouted at them in the streets during the two days since the election. Shouts that they are the reason the country is messed up and shouts to go back to their homeland. And this is in the middle of San Francisco, where 9 out of every 10 people voted Clinton! I cannot even imagine what minorities are dealing with in areas that are so much less diverse.

I don’t believe all or even most Trump supporters are racist xenophobic misogynists. And I’m glad they have had their voices heard. However, his racist, xenophobic, and misogynistic comments and actions were part of his package and now there are many brothers and sisters in Christ who have been deeply hurt by this.

I am praying for Donald Trump and our nation; praying for healing and repentance. But my heart is so broken and heavy.

Many christians see themselves being marginalized every day. The democratic party is doing that marginalization through the government. If you want I can detail with examples, just ask. If Christians don’t stand up to save our country’s freedom of religion and speech, we will no longer have this platform of the united states of america from which to launch most all of the missionary work in the world. The democratic party is now according to recent polling, made up of 33% atheists. That number is quietly growing. You may not worry about the country changing in these ways but even the so called “marginalized communities” of our country should be thankful for what our country provides them through the constitution. We will all be sorry once that all withers and erodes. Some of us feel it is important to protect these rights for all of us. The solution to marginalization of communities is not to marginalize other communities. No solutions can be reached if our country isn’t protected from the loss of these rights.

I understand the concerns Christians have about culture changing and the fear of becoming a faith minority. I live in San Francisco, a completely secular city built on the foundations of self determination and freedom of individual expression. This is a city where the residents would fight tooth and nail before they would let religion be taught in schools. It’s a city where one out of every 15 people at my workplace is gay. When I tell people I’m a Christian and I believe that Jesus died for my sins and rose again and that my eternal hope is in him, people look at me like I have three heads. They think I’m an uneducated fool to believe in that kind of impossible superstition.
And yet I go to a church that is thriving and growing smack in the middle of the city. We have service in Sunday’s at a public middle school, which is a miracle in itself if you know the dynamics of how strongly residents are against religion here. And somehow we’ve built a strong relationship and deep trust with this school. How? It was not by forcing legislation, or demanding our right to freedom of religion. No, we built up a relationship serving that school and loving the community over time. Hosting fundraisers, painting their walls, cleaning their classrooms, and tutoring their kids.
I’ve always felt it was a hidden blessing to be in a faith minority here in SF because our church has really had to depend on God to show us how to love this city with Christ’s love.
I don’t presume there is one way to vote as a Christian. I am, however, saddened to see Christians more focused on defending their voting choices than listening to the fears and concerns of those in the country that did not vote the same way they did.

Kelly – I have no problem whatsoever in everything you said above. The only problem is your premise. You concluded from what I wrote that I (or many christians) are afraid of becoming a faith minority. That is not at all what I said nor what I fear. So I feel like you typed something out explaining a false proposition. I don’t care much at all about which religion has more followers (except for the obvious reason of wanted God’s word to spread like a wild fire). What I have fear about for our country politically is will we start having our rights to express our religion freely restricted. Will our rights continue to be eroded by an 1/3 and growing political party if they have their way? The atheists I talk to online are pretty hostile to religion (mostly, for whatever reason, the christian religion). There is also the issue of the wealth and economy of our country. Without our relative wealth and prosperity, our country won’t be the launching pad for so much charity and missionary work around the world. Those are the things I fear for regarding our country politically. If Christians are a minority doesn’t bother me if we are all still following the constitution. But do the democrats and their atheist third respect the freedom of religion and speech and want to protect it for everyone as passionately as it has been protected for 200+ years by a predominantly christian society. The clues from the last 20 years with some of the erosion of religious freedoms already happening tell me no.

Atheists can’t be 1/3 of the Democratic Party. They’re only 3% of the overall population. The math doesn’t work.

Tim
on November 14, 2016 at 4:37 pm

Got it. Doesn’t change the fear about losing religious freedoms. It isn’t the atheist eroding them it is the Democratic Party. With 33% of its members not affiliating with a religion, I don’t think religious freedom and freedom of speech is a priority for them.

Two quick thoughts: 1. Frankly, the Church is usually healthiest when it is marginalized, at least a little. When the church becomes dominant, historically speaking, it becomes much less distinct from culture.

2. A few people have mentioned the “33% of Democrats are atheists” stat. I believe that is false. According to Pew, only 3% of Americans are atheists. Another 5% self-describe as agnostics. It just isn’t mathematically possible for 3% of Americans to make up 33% of Democrats (unless they’re voting early and often, Chicago-style). The actual number, I believe, is closer to 10%. Atheists are loud, but they aren’t terribly abundant. (And they reproduce at anemic rates, which is why in 20 years the world is projected to be LESS atheistic than it is today. Not enough atheist babies!)

I agree with your first point – American Christianity is very comfortable.

On your 2nd point, also keep in mind that the “non-religious” (meaning no religious affiliation, not just non-Christian) are pegged at 20-25% by various research agencies. This group could be/probably is made up of atheists and agnostics who do not frame their faith, or lack thereof, in such black and white terms – in the same way – as a significant portion of political “Independents” typically vote down the party line of either Democrat or Republican, but refuse to attach themselves with either party due to fundamental differences with certain portions of their planks.

The “nones” simply check “none of the above” on a religion survey. They aren’t necessarily non-religious and they definitely aren’t all non-spiritual. “Nones” are more likely to believe in reincarnation than the average American, for example. Many are hyper-spiritual, just in non-traditional ways. Atheists are a small minority within the “nones.”

Tim
on November 14, 2016 at 1:21 pm

Thanks Phil. I think that I should be using the term “No Religious affiliation” rather than Atheist. I am not sure it changes my point but at least I could be more accurate. Your comments made me look back at the surveys I had seen. But the number of people who you could say have nothing to do with religion or maybe want to have nothing to do with religion is around 33% in the democratic party. That worries me as far as giving them power over the country and constitution every election. The numbers are growing so that means it will only get worse as far as the erosion of religious liberties and religious freedoms taking a backseat to other more important rights. I also think it is hard to believe that our supreme court has no evangelical or even protestant representation I believe. That needs to change. It is good to hear about the lack of atheist babies and I venture to guess that we are born with an innate desire to commune with our creator, that even an “atheist baby” might have to be convinced they have no creator one day when they get older – no easy task. I also think that if Trump supporters are going to have to answer for what I believe is falsely perceived racism, sexism, etc…. that any christians voting democratic might want to answer how they can feel good about agreeing with so many who want to have nothing to do with religion. It might be fair to say that there are more atheists in the democratic party than KKK members in the republican party. My point is more that no one should have to answer for their vote based on perceptions….only based on reality. So, if Trump comes out and says any muslims who are american citizens are going to be kicked out of the country and then he tries to make it happen – We’ve got some explaining to do. If he says terrorism is on the rise around the world and then our FBI says we have no way of vetting refugees from these countries to know if they have terrorist ties – and then he shuts down immigration from muslim countries until a better vetting process can be figured out (I know he doesn’t say it so succinctly but this is an accurate representation of his views I believe) – We don’t have explaining to do…..a muslim like the ones living next to Skye might think they are going to be rounded up and kicked out – but that is definitely not what anyone has suggested (I assume they are citizens). If we explain anything, it should be explaining that they have nothing to fear except the people who create these false narratives to build fear where there need be none. All Christians from all types of voting choices can explain that one together.

Are you saying it was wrong to vote trump?
I believe that trump may not be a racist. here me out. He has only attacked illegal immigrants not all hispanics, and he has moved to extreme vetting from a Muslim ban. He also did better with Hispanics and blacks than Romney did. Also the KKK endorsing him isn’t good evidence for him being a racist. The KKK has endorsed many other candidates in recent history. Trump has not supported racist violence committed by his supporters and has acted presidential ever since his victory.

And you probably should of said this before the election or at least a few more days latter because everyone is extremely emotional right know. Judging from the patreon question tape you are probably very emotional too. being emotional makes it almost impossible to think strait.

I appreciate your thoughts on this issue and i am a big fan of the podcast

Phil, Here are my takeaways from what you said in today’s blog: you are not trying to impugn Christians who voted for Trump as racists or leaning racist and the real issue is “That we white Christians have some explaining to do to convince our non-white brothers and sisters that our support for Trump was not support for his perceived racism, sexism or xenophobia”

So, why don’t you show some faith in your brother’s and sister’s in Christ and START explaining. You suggest here, and I will take you at your word, that you believe that there are reasons Christians voted for Trump. Reasons not pertaining to racism, sexism, etc…. Yet you don’t defend them. You don’t start explaining them. Maybe you can see how that comes across as more accusatory than authentic. Your post today is softer and more carefully worded, but I am not sure if that is authentic or not based on the fact that if you think there are legitimate reasons for Christians to vote for Trump that can be explained, instead of demanding explanation from others, why not start the explaining? By not sharing those reasons, it appears more like you don’t actually think there are any legitimate reasons there. Which would mean you actually do think the only reasons were racism, sexism, and homophobia, and xenophobia.

It is not helpful when you respond to these comments by mocking them in front of your Patreon supporters, as you do here: https://youtu.be/i-NQUsVYQr4 You pick out the ones which are easy to make fun of, but show no interest in interacting with the many thoughtful commenters who have disagreed with your portrayal of them. It is disappointing for your fans to be treated with such a condescending attitude.

How is it on him to try to articulate reasons that are not his to defend? He was not making a case of the reasons to vote for him vs. the reasons not to. He made a case for the reasons to fear how we have made ourselves look to the world vs. claims we made ourselves look good.

Jeremiah, I felt like Phil was trying to absolve himself of being an accuser and trying to put himself in the middle as objective here. Based on his podcast, I am not sure it was an authentic portrayal of his position. I was challenging him that if he really believes that the accusations are just “Perceived” not reflective of those trump voting christians, than he could start defending their positions. You certainly can defend people you don’t agree with, especially if you are brothers and sisters in Christ with them. You can give their legitimate reasons for choosing Trump instead of criticizing them and acting like you have no idea why they went the way they did. He has heard their arguments and for the most part dismisses them. That is why I don’t think it was fair to soften his post here today and pretend he wasn’t accusing that it was just the perception that needs to be changed not the reality.

Not sure I agree with the conclusions you’re drawing here – it’s clear that many Christians followed “lesser of the two evils” thinking and concluded that Trump was the lesser evil. That’s understandable. I’m happy to explain that when interacting with church skeptics. (In fact, I believe I mentioned that on “The Friendly Atheist Podcast” a couple of weeks ago.) But I’m not defending Christian behavior on my podcast, since I’m talking with Christians. So I’m more likely to challenge Christian behavior than defend it in that context. Put me on CNN or on an atheist podcast and I’ll be explaining the church, not challenging the church. Does that make sense? I hope so.

I appreciate your response. And what you said makes some sense. I guess I just feel like someone in your position who thinks things in the church need explaining and seems to be implying that you aren’t calling Trump voters racist, etc… That you could put yourself in position to start explaining. You don’t have to agree with people to explain where they were coming from, to show empathy for their beliefs. You could start the healing that way instead of waiting for someone else to “Put” you on CNN. If the church needs to do some explaining before they can start making inroads with minority populations, and you believe there is a good explanation, then start doing the explaining. I suspect based on your voiced opinions in your podcast on the topic that you don’t really believe that there is a good explanation and that you might be feigning neutrality here. You know, suggesting that it is just a false perception about the church – you believe it is a true perception about the church which is why you probably won’t go on the circuit to help explain where Christians from either side are coming from. I don’t mean this to sound too harsh. I think that like Christian Trump voters in many cases, you may also be putting political feelings ahead of your Christian feelings. I am guilty of that sometimes myself. It is a difficult line to walk. Christians (and all people) had a tough decision to make between these two candidates and some were led to not vote, some were led to vote for Hillary and some to vote for Trump. Trump is the only one who actually voiced an anti abortion stance and a desire to protect religious freedoms. So, some Christians decided to go with Trump.

I guess I am having trouble with your argument about changing perceptions. If those perceptions are falsely created by the media and progressives during a political campaign, there is not much that can be done about that in the short term besides “keep walking your walk” and people will know you are not racist, homophobic, sexist, etc….. If the perceptions are true, then you better work to change who you are. Maybe the issue here is you believe the perceptions might be based in reality and those who voted for Trump might believe (knowing themselves) that they are false perceptions (seemingly brought out every election cycle). If a perception of your awesome VeggieTales videos was being created by the media that they were too Christian….that the spiritual messages were too strong and you believed that perception to be false based on sales and audience feedback and self reflection of your product, you might just go on doing what you are doing hoping that people watch for themselves and find out. If you believed that they might be right, you might make adjustments to future productions and tone down the spirituality. Anyway, I appreciate your response and respect your side of this debate. I just disagree and to be honest, I feel like your podcast made your opinions very clear and that your first post more accurately reflected your real views. My wife used to work for you with VeggieTales and I have lost track of what is going on so I am glad to find your site and will give some of your non-political podcasts a try. Just because we are on opposite sides as far as politics and how the church should position itself politically doesn’t mean you might not have some good spiritual revelations to share about the bible and God’s word.

“When 90% of black evangelicals opposed a candidate whom 80% of white evangelicals supported, can we really say the body of Christ is colorblind?”

1. Have these numbers ever been significantly different? It just seems like if the numbers have always been the same for the most part, that this had nothing to do with Trumps campaign being as you described it (tinged with racism). If it were than you would have expected Trumps numbers with people of color to be worse than past elections instead of better. You would also assume that the same people who elected the first black president for 2 terms and changed their votes to Trump (which is a significant reason why he won across the great lakes states and PA) did not do so over racial reasons unless you suggest they just became racist since 2012.
2. If you look at the percentages of black evangelicals and how they vote in every election the percentage probably has never changed more than a few points. I bet there is more flexibility in the white evangelical numbers as to where they threw their support. So if you question if the body of Christ is colorblind or not. Unless you can refute my conclusions about the data, it seems that perhaps it is the black evangelicals that are less colorblind and may need to consider change.

I agree with you – this racial divide in the church isn’t new and it isn’t just about Trump. I strongly suspect (though I don’t know for certain) that more African-American Christians have moved away from the Democratic Party due to issues like abortion and gay marriage than white Christians have moved away from the Republican Party due to issues like care for the poor or care for the environment. I suspect the white church is more politically entrenched than the African-American church. But I could be wrong. And overall – I agree with you.

Hard to say Phil. Voter totals certainly don’t show much movement in the African-American vote overall. I think they would if it were socially acceptable to do it based on the issues you mentioned, but I don’t think it is. I also notice that despite the democrat party being made up of so many different special interest groups (I don’t mean that insultingly) who have sometimes conflicting views with each other they are able to stay unified because the media does not try to drive wedges between the groups. You would thing that a party that shows from the latest polls that 33% of the members are atheists it might be easy to drive a wedge between them and the left leaning christians. Or the fact that most African Americans are not really up with Gay marriage might make it easy to drive a wedge between those two groups. But you really need the media to make that a reality and it ain’t happening. On the other hand (no data to go with this) I know a lot more left leaning Christians now than I ever knew there used to be. I think the media does a good job of driving a wedge between Christians whenever they can. Admittedly, Christians can contribute to that also. Abortion and Gay marriage are much more cut and dried issues too compared to helping the poor and sick and caring for the environment. I mean I believe it is a valid position biblically to support the sick and the environment on your own charitably but not believe the government should be making people do it. There is also a gray line between believing in taking care of the environment like those on the left wish and finding a different balance like those who support some environmental issues on the right wish. Again, perception created by media is you either have to go with the progressive environmental agenda or you want the earth to burn and be destroyed…but reality is, some well meaning people just have a different balance point as to where we should sacrifice jobs and security for combating climate change. Many Christians might feel strongly that the bible is clear on homosexuality or abortion being a sin but not so sure that not capping greenhouse gases and not wanting to shut down coal mines and putting people out of work for that is a sin. Just some quick examples, not meant to fully explore the topics. I also could be wrong. God Bless.

Phil, it is not helpful when you respond to these comments by mocking them in front of your Patreon supporters, as you do here: https://youtu.be/i-NQUsVYQr4 You pick out the ones which are easy to make fun of, but show no interest in interacting with the many thoughtful commenters who have disagreed with your portrayal of them. It is disappointing for your fans to be treated with such a condescending attitude.

Wasn’t trying to mock (though I see now, listening back, how it sounded that way). I was just trying to show how extreme some of the reactions were. (Surprisingly extreme to me.) We talked about how many Trump voters were simply voting AGAINST Hillary not FOR Trump, so the more reasonable responses were represented, if not read word-for-word. I should have represented the moderate responses better on this live cast.

I have been thinking a lot about why your post-Trump essays have so disturbed and disappointed me, and I think I have figured it out. My experience may be typical for many who have taken issue with you over this.

Through the years, my family have been HUGE Phil Vischer fans. We started having children in 1992, and we (along with all our “White Evangelical Religious Right” friends) bought every one of your videos for the next 10 years or so: Veggie Tales, Larry Boy, 3-2-1 Penguins — everything. We watched Jonah on the big screen. My autistic daughter learned to draw by copying Veggie Tales characters. She sent you artwork and you thoughtfully replied. We mourned the passing of Big Idea and prayed for you. We bought “Me, Myself and Bob” and passed it around. We rejoiced at the advent of Jelly Telly and subscribed. My daughter wrote a letter to Buck Denver on Jelly Telly and he (you) read it on the air. Our family took a road trip to see you speak at John Brown University; you sat right in front of us and I have a very detailed photo of your scalp! (I may put it on eBay if you continue to rise in fame! ;-). We pre-ordered every episode of “What’s In The Bible” and as Sunday School teachers, we used it as our Sunday School curriculum.

Somewhere along the line, I guess I got to feeling like I *knew* you, and we were friends somehow, and on the same side; however, now I find myself the object of your disdain, condescension, even ridicule — and it hurts a little.

I have had this experience before. You know, you get to know people at work and you really like them. Then, you become Facebook friends and you see their political posts, and you say, “Wow, I never knew them at all!” Afterward, you kind of wish you could undo that, but at least you know what subjects to avoid in conversation in the future. That’s kind of where I see us now.

It’s going to be okay; I’m just going to have to get my mind around it. As a White Evangelical, I’m used to dealing with media figures who misunderstand and dislike me, who mischaracterize my motivations. I can listen to NPR or read the New York Times; I just brace myself for the occasional glib dismissal of my worldview and go on.

I can do that with your podcast from now on.

You know, my wife had been picking up a condescending attitude on the podcast for a while and had stopped listening. I guess I have been in denial, and tried to keep an open mind, and continued listening sporadically. After Episode 223, https://youtu.be/V_O2j9hz45o — where you advance (Randall Bulmer’s false) liberal narrative that the Religious Right was founded on racism — it was difficult to deny that we are on fundamentally different wavelengths.

Last night, I heard this statement from Skye and the lights really came on.

You have a new audience! Since I am not one of the 19% of White Evangelicals who voted against Trump, it seems I am not the kind of listener you are “cultivating” now. I am the OLD audience. You want more people who do not “align themselves with the Religious Right.” As Skye says, “it’s going to be a bumpy road getting there.” And I am one of the bumps. 🙂

Okay, lesson learned. We are politically on opposite sides of the fence. I know you can be irenic and winsome to people you disagree with. I have seen you do it with atheists. Hopefully, you can treat your fans on the Religious Right with the same tender concern.

I have to say it also pains me to see the statements of famous Christians like yourself used against me in debate with enemies of the faith, but this is already a very long letter, so I will not elaborate further.

I am not going to say I will never listen to you again. If you have an interesting guest or topic, I may tune in, but I will have my defenses up, and will know to listen with an attitude of skepticism. Demographically, I am not your desired market anymore, politically I am now part of your loyal opposition — but I am still a fan of your artistic oeuvre, and always your brother in Christ!

Thanks for the thoughtful response, James. I really appreciate it. I’m wondering why you consider yourself my “loyal opposition,” though. How are we opposed? We’re brothers in Christ. We want what is best for the church. It sounds like you might be further to the right politically than I am. Does that mean we are opposed to one another? That anything I say must be heard “with an attitude of skepticism?” I’m confused by this. Could we really be that far apart?

Sorry for the tardy reply; I have been working long hours. All I meant by “loyal opposition” is that I have come to accept that we are on opposite sides of the fence politically, but I hope to remain loyal to you as a brother in Christ.

I feel certain that you do want what is best for the church, but we apparently see the church very differently. Between podcasts 223 and 226, it’s become obvious to me that you have bought into a certain narrative about Evangelicalism (and especially me as a white Evangelical who is involved in the pro-life movement) that is false to the facts.

I was really distressed by episode 223, the one where you said that the Religious Right was founded on racism. I was willing to give Skye a chance to defend his claims, but as I researched, the facts didn’t add up, and I could only find one guy who supported Skye’s thesis, and that was Randall Balmer (I’m guessing he is a Christianity Today colleague of Skye’s), and he is a political liberal with an obvious axe to grind against the Right. I asked myself why you guys would so blithely accept — and repeat — such a slanderous accusation?

I can only suppose it is because it reinforces your gut instinct for why White Evangelicals were supporting Trump: racism.

This last business just reinforced the concerns I already had from past episodes. I have been rushed through the five stages of grief to Acceptance.

So, now I am at peace with the fact that you, my brother (along with your charming co-hosts) may at any time be misrepresenting my attitudes, my motivations, even my history — either by misstating them, or by claiming to speak for me as an Evangelical (except for Skye who has apparently renounced that title since the election).

I am certain your motivations are noble, but from now on I am bound to be suspicious of your diagnosis of my problems and your prescriptions. I will try to give kudos when due, and I will try to speak the truth in love when I disagree!

I think I’m just going to reject that idea that we’re on the “opposite sides of the fence politically.” I assume you are a conservative Republican (tell me if I’m wrong). The opposite would be a liberal Democrat. Which I am not. I consider myself independent, typically leaning Republican. I voted for Reagan and a whole bunch of Bushes. (I think I would have been happy with Jeb! this year.) I just believe neither party has a monopoly on truth, and neither reflect with complete accuracy the priorities of a follower of Jesus. Even my vote this year wasn’t a vote against the Republican Party necessarily, but a vote very specifically against putting a man with the temperament of Donald Trump in the highest office in the world.

Regarding the Religious Right – Skye was going off this quote from Paul Weyrich, who co-founded the Moral Majority with Falwell:

“Let’s remember that the Religious Right did not come together in response to the Roe decision. What got us going was the attempt on the part of the IRS to rescind the tax-exempt status of Bob Jones University…. It shattered the Christian community’s notion that Christians could isolate themselves inside their own institutions and teach what they pleased.”

If that quote is accurate, it seems pretty clear Roe v Wade wasn’t the catalyst of the movement. Abortion really didn’t hit the broader church consciousness (other than the Catholic church, which was against it from day 1) until around 1980 with the writings of Francis Schaeffer, C Everett Koop, etc. I was around for that part, so I remember that pretty clearly.

I also think we start to damage our witness to our culture when we become so politicized as a church. Chuck Colsen came out the year before he died in a piece he wrote for Time Magazine and said, “When we politicized the gospel we made a huge mistake. We thought we could reverse America’s moral decline by getting the right people in office. Reversing the moral decline isn’t the job of the government, it’s the job of the church. That’s where we’re failing.” I think he nailed it, frankly.

Furthermore, I have read other quotes by Weyrich which paint a different picture, once stripped of all the insinuations. And I have read other historians, who give a different picture.

So, I am not going to embrace the narrative that the Religious Right was founded on racism, which goes counter to all my experience (and yours), based on Balmer’s testimony.

And I don’t know why anybody would, unless they wanted it to be true for political reasons (is the story “too good to check”?) or it just lined up with their internal model of reality so nicely that they simply assumed it was true (the “bubble” effect).

When I heard the story, it did not line up with my memory or experience, and I honestly just didn’t want it to be true, so I checked the facts and I don’t find this narrative credible. I feel disappointed that you guys didn’t do the same.

I am tired of being accused of racism — simply because I am white, or Evangelical, or vote Republican. And I have heard so many false charges, I find myself immediately skeptical anymore, which is a shame. False news and false accusations are corroding the public discourse.

I also agree with you about the politicization of the church. I struggle with how to reconcile and treat minorities with compassion — *without* accepting false narratives and false solutions that I feel are both false to the facts and bound to fail.

Unfortunately, we Christians have little choice in this country but to interact politically, and I am afraid that means we are doomed to some degree of conflict.

I am encouraged by the fact that Jesus disciples included Simon the Zealot, a right-wing “small government” guy (to say the least) — and Matthew, a left-wing “big government” guy who collected taxes for the state. 🙂

I appreciate your assurances that we are on the same side. I am sure we are in the areas that really matter most!

God bless you, brother.

James
on November 15, 2016 at 3:00 pm

Here’s another version of the quote, this time with a lot less personal embellishment, but also apparently provided by Balmer:

***

THE ORIGINS OF THE RELIGIOUS RIGHT

Paul Weyrich, head of the Free Congress Foundation, a conservative lobbying organization, was one of the architects of the Religious Right. He recognized that politically conservative evangelicals represented a powerful voting bloc, and he sought to include them in a conservative political coalition. These remarks, presented at a conference in Washington, D.C., in 1990, shed light on the origins of the movement that became known as the Religious Right.

“Most people who comment on the evangelical movement picture it as an offensive movement politically. It is not. It is a defensive movement. The people who are involved in it didn’t want to get involved; they got involved very reluctantly. They had accepted the notion (which may have taken root historically at the Scopes trial) that a good Christian would raise his family in the proper manner and would not participate very much in public life. If you did that, you could avoid all the corruption that was manifest in politics.… What caused the movement to surface was the federal government’s moves against Christian schools. This absolutely shattered the Christian community’s notion that Christians could isolate themselves inside their own institutions and teach what they pleased. The realization that they could not then linked them up with the long-held conservative view that government is too powerful and intrusive, and this linkage was what made evangelicals active. It wasn’t the abortion issue; that wasn’t sufficient. It was the recognition that isolation simply would no longer work in this society.”

Butler, Jon; Wacker, Grant; Balmer, Randall. Religion in American Life: A Short History (p. 399). Oxford University Press. Kindle Edition.

***

You have to read a LOT into that quote to say that the Religious Right was founded on racism. Planned Parenthood, on the other hand, was explicitly founded on racism.

Thanks, James. There is still certainly a racial undertone, since the motivating issue was, in fact, the federal government moving against BJU over racial segregation. Since that lines up with a lot of Southern resistance over integration (Dixiecrats, “Segregation Academies,” etc.), I think it’s hard to conclude that there was no race issue at play whatsoever.

James
on November 15, 2016 at 11:58 pm

Stripped of Balmer’s embellishments, I find nothing overtly racist in that quote. Balmer makes much of the fact that BYU was racist, but I think his argument is forced.

Sometimes a movement may be catalyzed by an entity that is not representative of the greater membership. You know, I have seen a cake shop owner, a pizza maker, an unsophisticated, thrice-divorced town clerk provoked recently by a changing culture and I watched them respond the best they could. Then I watched them crushed by the government, the media and the monolithic pop culture. Maybe you are sensitive to the plight of homosexuals, maybe you don’t identify with the people who are being put on public trial, but you can still conclude that these people were being made examples of, and that the State was exercising force to restrict Christian liberty. I imagine that people felt similarly when they saw the government move against BJU.

Was BJU racist? Certainly. But does it then necessarily follow that the Religious Right movement was racist. Not in the least.

I suspect the founding of the Religious Right was like the founding of the Homeschool Movement. There is not one story — there are dozens of stories. It was a nationwide movement of different people, Protestant and Catholic, North and South.

Look, whatever you may say, forced busing was a disaster, for blacks and whites, from Alabama to Detroit (read the article I linked above). But there was a lot more than that going on!

Conservative Christians were very distressed by the liberal transformation overtaking the public school classroom. Prayer was taken out of school in 1962. The sex ed controversy was heating up. Drugs were becoming an issue. People were ready to pursue a sort of “Benedict Option,” as Rod Dreher now terms it. They were ready to isolate themselves. The government moved to restrict that option, and the Conservative Christians were “woke” as the kids say now.

To say that this was racist is at least a gross oversimplification, at worst slander. To say that you are suspicious that there may have been racist motives is not wholly unreasonable, but to say that “Racism is the real reason we have a Religious Right today” is just a libel; it is malicious and false, it’s propaganda, it’s a liberal talking point, it’s a false narrative. If you want to promote that, go ahead.

(Again, this is in contrast to Democrat darling Margaret Sanger starting Planned Parenthood for the express purpose of killing Black babies).

Melody
on November 12, 2016 at 1:11 pm

I agree with everything you say here and need to go back and read the previous post. The problem I have is with the knee-jerk reaction to call you a moron for expressing your perspective. That shows a willful failure to listen and engage ideas. That is divisive and even sinful, and as such, must be addressed by those Christians behaving in that way.

I didn’t vote for Trump (or Hillary) because of character issues, but if the most important criteria for how Christians vote is whether or not their candidate is perceived as a racist, then I guess no Christian should ever vote for a Republican. In the opinion of many people on the left, all Republicans (because of their policies) are by definition racists and xenophobes. Should we vote based on our principles and conscience … or based on how people will perceive us? I voted my conscience despite the fact that some might perceive me as foolish for (in their opinion) throwing away my vote, or actually helping HRC to get elected. By the way, I live in NH, so in all likelihood my vote did help her to carry the state … which is certainly NOT the outcome I wanted. Should I have voted for DT so that some people wouldn’t think poorly of me?

I do agree that Christians who voted for Trump may find the need to “explain” that their vote was not an endorsement of his character or inflammatory rhetoric. It is unfortunate, however, that so many will jump to the inaccurate conclusion that a vote for DT is evidence of tacit agreement with all of his egregious statements.

In my opinion, this election cycle put Christians in a no win situation. My bottom line is … do what you think is right before God and deal graciously with those who did not arrive at the same conclusion you did.

I’ve read your blog. I’ve read Skye’s four open letters. I’ve listened to the latest podcast. I understand. I agree. I especially liked Skye’s letter to his children. The points you make are valid, but the tone you strike, especially on the podcast, is… well… gloomy is probably the best word I can think of.

My wife and I were recently confirmed in the Anglican Communion and attend a very orthodox Episcopal church. The last five years have been a time of unprecedented spiritual growth in our lives. Over the course of this year, I prayed daily for Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump. I prayed that God would work in both of their hearts and place the one He preferred to be our president in office. As I stepped into the voting both I prayed that the Holy Spirit would guide my vote. I starred at Clinton’s name for a long time, but I could not vote for her. I left the choice for president blank and proceeded down ballot. Sixty-one people from my church, myself included, agreed to participate in a fast on Election Day: water only, 7am-7pm (the time the polls were open in the part of Florida we live in). We fasted and prayed for those twelve hours. It was intense. We didn’t pray for a particular candidate but for God’s will because he knows exactly what would happen if either person won. Then we watched Donald Trump win by winning states that he wasn’t suppose to. Wisconsin put him over 270. Wisconsin wasn’t even a battle ground state. So, what am I to think? How am I to feel? What am I to believe? I honestly believe America got it right even though Donald Trump was not my choice because I trust that God responded to our prayers.

This campaign was nasty. Donald Trump deserves a lot of the blame. His loudest supporters represented the worst of our society. I don’t mean that they themselves are the worst of our society, but, rather, that they gave voice to the doubts and fears that are among the worst aspects of our society. Trump appealed to the opposite of the positive elements Ronald Reagan’s rhetoric awoke in Anericans. You are absolutely right about the healing that must take place now that this campaign is over. You are also right that the church must take a lead role in it. That has to begin, however, with forgiveness. We must forgive Donald Trump. We must forgive each other. We must not point and blame. Above all, we must not fear. We have no reason to be gloomy. Christ is our King, and he is on his throne no matter who’s in the White House.
I’ve learned a lot in the last two years about living without fear as a Christian, Phil. I learn it from you and skye and from reading your books. Don’t worry. It’ll all be ok.

All I can say is Thank you. I was quite confused this election and it was very frustrating to try to explain to my family why most of the church would be voting for Trump. Your words came at a perfect time . It felt great to know we are not alone and someone feels like I do. God will keep blessing you immensely. Unfortunately a lot of times prosecution comes from within the church and because of this division America is struggling . It is not until we learn to live like Christ and become a united church that America will truly be great.

It is hard to hear a Christian brother say evangelicals who voted for Trump have to explain their stance on racism, refugees, and inclusiveness. Trump has done everthing to distance himself from racist supporters, yet many still choose to sterotype all Trump supporters as racist. This is unfair and irresponsible. Why are you promoting this stereotype?
Look around and notice the ministry going on in America and the world- all in the name of Jesus. Christians from all political affiliations come together to care for the needs of the oppressed in every nation. If actions speak louder than words, then the church clearly stands with the people you claim Trump supporting Christians are against. Statements like yours tear the church down from the inside and create unnecessary division. I suggest using your platform to shine a spotlight on the millions of Christians who are modeling the love of Jesus in small and big ways everday! Let’s encourage each other and promote unity.

Hi Marcy – thanks for your thoughts. Unfortunately, from the view of many non-whites (and quite a few whites), Trump’s entire campaign was laced with racist and xenophobic undertones. So not many would agree with the statement that Trump did everything he could to distance himself from racism or racist supporters. Having said that, my audience is very specifically the church, so I’m more likely to use my platform to try to help the church see how we’re coming across to the world, as opposed to promoting the church TO the world. Since the world doesn’t listen to my podcast or read my posts, I don’t have the right platform for that. Good to hear your point of view, though.

Just returned to US from a visit to Kenya and thankful I could tell my friends truthfully that I did not vote for Trump and did not have to add any explanation of why I voted (or didn’t vote) the way I did.