Re: Celebrity Apprentice 4/15 Episode ****SPOILERS****

Clay didn't deny there was contact If Lou had actually sruck, punched or hit Penn in a violent manner, as Penn insinuated, I'm thinking why would Clay bother to speak up and make the distinction between `a guy greeting' vs an actual act of violence? Wouldn't Clay have either stayed quiet on the topic thus supporting Penn's accusations or spoken up to defend Penn by saying, `Yes, Penn is correct.' I felt he was, if not coming to Lou's defense, at least letting Penn know Clay wasn't afraid to question Penn's take on things. I guess I'm thinking if Clay wanted to remain neutral he wouldn't have chosen to bring his contradictory viewpoint into the mix.

The thing about empathy is…it doesn't have a price tag; However, it will certainly cost you other things. it will cost you time to sit with someone you disagree with. It will cause you to swallow your pride... and it will cost you the “victory” of always being right.

Re: Celebrity Apprentice 4/15 Episode ****SPOILERS****

Originally Posted by spockwhat

I totally agree with you, Ness, and your reasoning. I would also like to add that Trump made a point of mentioning a couple of times how the Henson people really liked the work that Dayana did. Under normal circumstances, I don't think he would give a person that many props for making a puppet... but he was trying to lift her up a little, and let her know that she's appreciated by who counts: the Trumps. He even made extra mention of it after they won and they were getting up to leave the table.

As for Clay and Penn, I can understand why they are keeping the mouths shut for now. This is still a game, and Dayana is a big girl. As long as they continue to be kind and supportive of Dayana, they understand she has her big girl panties on. Lisa, on the other hand, looks a complete fool when she cries for them to back her up. They refuse to, but they don't stir it up just before a task by going against her either.

Clay.
You know, he's possibly the best player this game has ever seen. First of all, he's incredibly multi-talented, and he proved it again with his improvisational skills this week. Beyond his talents that serve him well in tasks, is his ability to actually manipulate the game in his favour at every turn.

For example:
1)Penn was kind of top dog, until Clay called him out under strange circumstances. He effectively took down Penn's confidence a couple of notches and left him thinking twice and three times before Penn said anything. It was a sly move and done under the guise of being a "team player" but I don't think he thought Lou was all that good, he just needed to take Penn down a notch. It did put some heat on Clay a little, but next time...
2) He and Arsenio knocked Aubrey's feet out from under her. Now, she is also in the position of not knowing what she can or cannot say. This was more engineered by Arsenio, but Clay was right there, supporting Arsenio.
3) Clay gets moved to Lisa's team just after he had a little tiff with her. He quickly begins working with Lisa well... and he also does not try to mend the rift between Lisa and Dayana. It was Clay who said to Lisa "I would like to hear your Spanish accent", and it was Clay who got Lisa going on the bit about "vapid models." These things visibly upset Dayana. Then, he had to know that Lisa was going to lose it a bit, but it was CLAY, not Dayana, who brought up how maybe Dayana could be doing something in front of the camera. Intentional or un-intentional, it was Clay's remark that led Lisa to going ape-scat crazy on Dayana again.

I love Clay, but personally, I would not trust playing a game with this guy unless I knew he was firmly on my side! Where Lisa rants and raves to get things her way, Clay weaves in and out with subtle manipulation to keep everything in his favour. It's kind of brilliant.

Excellent post. I clearly see Clay as top dog and the likely winner but did not pick up on his brilliant engineering to attain this postion. I thought it was Penn who asked her to do her Spanish puppet though. I deleted it so cannot check.

Clay's Take is interesting, this week, as well. His explanation of how Dyana may have been an irritant makes sense.

Re: Celebrity Apprentice 4/15 Episode ****SPOILERS****

Originally Posted by spockwhat

I totally agree with you, Ness, and your reasoning. I would also like to add that Trump made a point of mentioning a couple of times how the Henson people really liked the work that Dayana did. Under normal circumstances, I don't think he would give a person that many props for making a puppet... but he was trying to lift her up a little, and let her know that she's appreciated by who counts: the Trumps. He even made extra mention of it after they won and they were getting up to leave the table.

As for Clay and Penn, I can understand why they are keeping the mouths shut for now. This is still a game, and Dayana is a big girl. As long as they continue to be kind and supportive of Dayana, they understand she has her big girl panties on. Lisa, on the other hand, looks a complete fool when she cries for them to back her up. They refuse to, but they don't stir it up just before a task by going against her either.

Clay.
You know, he's possibly the best player this game has ever seen. First of all, he's incredibly multi-talented, and he proved it again with his improvisational skills this week. Beyond his talents that serve him well in tasks, is his ability to actually manipulate the game in his favour at every turn.

For example:
1)Penn was kind of top dog, until Clay called him out under strange circumstances. He effectively took down Penn's confidence a couple of notches and left him thinking twice and three times before Penn said anything. It was a sly move and done under the guise of being a "team player" but I don't think he thought Lou was all that good, he just needed to take Penn down a notch. It did put some heat on Clay a little, but next time...
2) He and Arsenio knocked Aubrey's feet out from under her. Now, she is also in the position of not knowing what she can or cannot say. This was more engineered by Arsenio, but Clay was right there, supporting Arsenio.
3) Clay gets moved to Lisa's team just after he had a little tiff with her. He quickly begins working with Lisa well... and he also does not try to mend the rift between Lisa and Dayana. It was Clay who said to Lisa "I would like to hear your Spanish accent", and it was Clay who got Lisa going on the bit about "vapid models." These things visibly upset Dayana. Then, he had to know that Lisa was going to lose it a bit, but it was CLAY, not Dayana, who brought up how maybe Dayana could be doing something in front of the camera. Intentional or un-intentional, it was Clay's remark that led Lisa to going ape-scat crazy on Dayana again.

I love Clay, but personally, I would not trust playing a game with this guy unless I knew he was firmly on my side! Where Lisa rants and raves to get things her way, Clay weaves in and out with subtle manipulation to keep everything in his favour. It's kind of brilliant.

You make a great point when you write people are keeping their mouths shut because Dayana is a big girl and has her bg girl panties on. Although you state this is a game, let's face it, the actions or in this case, inactions of people in this game in regards to openly supporting dayana reflect real life to a t. The Lisa Lampinellas of the world continue to exsist on tv and in real life because people not direcly affected by that kind of behavior remain silent 99 percent of the time. People who are targeted continually do find themselves marganilized ands isolated because their plight isn't validated by the observers. That people chose winning a ridiculous game show over speaking up for another's plight is pretty much how people behave in the real world-`I don't want to get involved in helping the victim because I don't want attention called to myself, I don't want to lose my social positon at work, I don't want to lose that promotion, it's really not that bad. what he or she is going through, he or she is getting targeted but he or she is an adult for crying out loud...' IMO, game or no, this is a perfect example of `evil triumphs when good men stand by ajnd do nothing. ' There is a point when we have to make a decison to put our own positons in the pecking order at risk in order to stand up for our fellow human being, either in a big way that affects a country or in a small way that saves the person right next to us, even if that saving is `only' letting that person know they are not alone and they are worth the risk to us.

The thing about empathy is…it doesn't have a price tag; However, it will certainly cost you other things. it will cost you time to sit with someone you disagree with. It will cause you to swallow your pride... and it will cost you the “victory” of always being right.

Re: Celebrity Apprentice 4/15 Episode ****SPOILERS****

Saw Paul on Wendy Williams show yesterday, and he admitted to being really ready to GO. When asked if he would give the name of his "friend" who donated the $300,000 on the first challenge, he would not but said he had "business associates" I'm sure he does, but I'd be willing to bet that he donated most of that money himself so that he could be seen as having collected the most money, ever, and control when he left the game, himself. He went into that game never planning to stay until the end. He was happy for the publicity which he created for himself, the money went to his favorite charity, and not into the pockets of another money-grubbing business managing group. Makes perfect sense to me!

Re: Celebrity Apprentice 4/15 Episode ****SPOILERS****

redsox girl, you know, you are totally right. There is never an excuse to allow bullying behaviour to just happen. I'm not sure exactly why I was giving Penn and Clay a pass on this... perhaps it was because it is so rarely seen on reality tv... the "better them than me" attitude is quite common. Perhaps it is also because we do see these shows as a game, and a temporary one at that, and allow for more coniving, lying and other negative behaviours within the context of the game. I can understand if someone lies within a game for example (no, I would never vote you out! Then they do) but I wouldn't toleratelying like that in my life.
But, you're right, bullying should not be tolerated even within a game... it's a low down way to play. I think, under the circumstances (just prior to the task), it was ok for Penn and Clay to not say anything, but they certainly could have been more vocal on Dayana's behalf after the task was over.

Re: Celebrity Apprentice 4/15 Episode ****SPOILERS****

I should also add one more note on Clay.

I read his blog, and though I found it interesting how he put all the events in perspective, I didn't like that he was bordering on making excuses for Lisa's behaviour towards Dayana.
I don't care one iota if Lisa is Mother Teresa 95% of the time... that 5% of ugly is about as hideous as it gets, and there is no excusing the emotional craziness this woman put other people through. Even if it's only 5-10 minutes a week. (THIS week).
I think Penn and Clay see Dayana as being a bit of a complainer for not getting to be more involved in this task, but Dayana feels she MUST be involved or Lisa will once again call her out as "brain dead" and useless. If Dayana doesn't get involved, she's useless, if she does try to be involved, she's just an 'irritant' and wants attention. There is no winning with Lisa if you are Dayana.

One last point. I know that there is a 99.9 percent chance that Lisa and Clay are better at improv and puppeteering, but do you really KNOW unless you let someone try? A really good project manager would have at least let Dayana put a puppet on her hand and given her a chance in rehearsals. Dayana would have proven herself as either good or poor, and they could have chosen the best to do the task.

Here's the key though, Lisa has decided in her narrow little brain that Dayana sucks at pretty much everything except looking good (she decided that week one, and even said so) and she's TERRIFIED that Dayana could prove her wrong. Anything Dayana does that she does well makes Lisa look like a fool. She knows it, so she'd rather not even give Dayana a chance at all.
She can't look too good at just making a puppet... can she? Well, actually she can, Lisa.

Re: Celebrity Apprentice 4/15 Episode ****SPOILERS****

Originally Posted by redsox girl

You make a great point when you write people are keeping their mouths shut because Dayana is a big girl and has her bg girl panties on. Although you state this is a game, let's face it, the actions or in this case, inactions of people in this game in regards to openly supporting dayana reflect real life to a t. The Lisa Lampinellas of the world continue to exsist on tv and in real life because people not direcly affected by that kind of behavior remain silent 99 percent of the time. People who are targeted continually do find themselves marganilized ands isolated because their plight isn't validated by the observers. That people chose winning a ridiculous game show over speaking up for another's plight is pretty much how people behave in the real world-`I don't want to get involved in helping the victim because I don't want attention called to myself, I don't want to lose my social positon at work, I don't want to lose that promotion, it's really not that bad. what he or she is going through, he or she is getting targeted but he or she is an adult for crying out loud...' IMO, game or no, this is a perfect example of `evil triumphs when good men stand by ajnd do nothing. ' There is a point when we have to make a decison to put our own positons in the pecking order at risk in order to stand up for our fellow human being, either in a big way that affects a country or in a small way that saves the person right next to us, even if that saving is `only' letting that person know they are not alone and they are worth the risk to us.

Add Trump to the list of those who could help Dayana, but don't want to. Trump is letting Lisa abuse Dayana because he thinks it's good for ratings. The Dayana/Lisa situation also occurs on a much bigger level. The state budgets are always balanced on the backs of the poor, who don't belong to any organizations, and therefore can't protect thmeselves. The people without dental care; the homeless; the hungry; are like Dayana... they are left to fend for themselves, and the Lisa-type bullies in positions of power don't care. Usually, evil triumphs over good.

Re: Celebrity Apprentice 4/15 Episode ****SPOILERS****

I've always had reason to expect Clay to be much smarter and much more astute than most would expect. I also think that the stereotype that way too many hold of southerners probably plays to his advantage. Also, have you guys noticed how he seems to be very good about knowing when to pull back when the fur is flying. So far he has certainly maintained a certain stability throughout. I didn't even feel that he approached Penn in a truly antagonistic way, but he still managed to throw him off balance in a big way. Wonder what happens between Clay and Aubrey in this next episode. That could be really interesting.

Lisa is just vile. She has so much anger and negative energy going on. I would love to think that maybe she sees how horrendous her actions have been, but I suspect she doesn't have that ability because she is so caught up in her own delusional world.

Re: Celebrity Apprentice 4/15 Episode ****SPOILERS****

Dayana came into this knowing that it is a cut throat game and as an adult women has decided to tough it out. She could leave any time but chooses not to. She could complain to producers or the Trumps or in the board room but she does not.

I am truly amazed that some people have made it Clay and Penn's job to throw their own game in order to protect Dayana from her own choices.

Re: Celebrity Apprentice 4/15 Episode ****SPOILERS****

Originally Posted by Srsly

Dayana came into this knowing that it is a cut throat game and as an adult women has decided to tough it out. She could leave any time but chooses not to. She could complain to producers or the Trumps or in the board room but she does not.

I am truly amazed that some people have made it Clay and Penn's job to throw their own game in order to protect Dayana from her own choices.

I agree.Plus up until now Dayana has held her own pretty darned well .She had slight blip last week. I am sure she will be fine next week.Clay and Penn should do nothing, as you say, Dayana could walk away at any time.I happen to think she is stronger than that.