I'm cross posting this to the whnay thread - this is me in a NSM jacket.

I'm not sure I understand the discussion RE: shoulders. As you can see here, the shoulder is pretty natural. The pleating or whatever you want to call it at the shoulder-head will cause slight "lift" or "bulge" of the sleeve top if, standing in the classic wayw full-length pose, you swing your hands back. I assumed this was a consequence of the "spalla camica" deal - the pleats (that's the wrong term, but hopefully you know what I mean) have to go somewhere.

No more talk of sleeveheads! It has nothing to do with what I'm looking at in the shoulder line. Look at the red lines I drew on the photos of Mariano and Vox. That highlights the issue. How the sleeve is attached and shaped at the head are neither here nor there.

Thanks, Jeffrey. Would you mind explaining what we are seeing in the Despos photo a bit? It is not so easy for this non-tailor to understand exactly what he is looking at and what is being done and why.

Yes, that's what I mean. It should be the other way around, if you're importing terms from mathematics.

We're not importing from mathematics, though. Anyway, that's why I took such great pains to illustrate what I'm talking about. Who cares which terms we use, so long as we are all clear on what they mean.

No more talk of sleeveheads! It has nothing to do with what I'm looking at in the shoulder line. Look at the red lines I drew on the photos of Mariano and Vox. That highlights the issue. How the sleeve is attached and shaped at the head are neither here nor there.

. . . .

Notice how the shoulder line (not the sleevehead) reverses curvature. In your photo, the same thing doesn't appear to be happening.

I get your point. Since the jacket has zero padding, may just be a question of physique. Assuming Vox has spent more time in the gym on his shoulders than his traps, his jacket would naturally follow the "pa-fucked" profile (great term, btw) unless there's a bit of padding to even things out. I'm not sure how else you would do it, actually.

If you are like me, and your main form of daily exercise is carrying luggage, typing on a computer, and lifting old-fashioned glasses, the unpadded shoulder might exhibit a more "natural" slope.

Quote:

Originally Posted by unbelragazzo

Side bar: Aren't we using the words concave and convex exactly opposite of how they should be? If foo's red line there tracing MR's shoulder line were a function, it would be a concave function.

We're not importing from mathematics, though. Anyway, that's why I took such great pains to illustrate what I'm talking about. Who cares which terms we use, so long as we are all clear on what they mean.

Fair enough, was just a side bar, as I said. Thought maybe there was some interesting etymological reason that this switcheroo took place, but maybe it's just happenstance.

I get your point. Since the jacket has zero padding, may just be a question of physique. Assuming Vox has spent more time in the gym on his shoulders than his traps, his jacket would naturally follow the "pa-fucked" profile (great term, btw) unless there's a bit of padding to even things out. I'm not sure how else you would do it, actually.

That's not what's happening, though. One's shoulders, no matter how athletic, do not begin raising upward. It's the way the jacket is cut, causing it to expand upward toward the scye, up and away from the wearer's shoulder. That is the only way it makes sense that Vox's Steed and Manton's Solito jackets (both unpadded) drop down at the shoulder exactly where their NSM jackets lift off.

I get your point. Since the jacket has zero padding, may just be a question of physique. Assuming Vox has spent more time in the gym on his shoulders than his traps, his jacket would naturally follow the "pa-fucked" profile (great term, btw) unless there's a bit of padding to even things out.

Learnt smth new tdy when I visited my tailor -- should have asked about the bump! Damn. It slipped my mind. Used to think that wadding would solve everything, including leveling uneven shoulders. Apparently, working on the pattern matters as well, so the wadding could be the same on both shoulders, yet by working on the pattern, they come out level. I think the cutter would need to be present to assess this, however, though pictures might help.

That blue line below is to indicate how the cutter has adjusted for an uneven shoulder line.

Again, the "bump" is not the issue I'm talking about. Nobody's shoulders sprout upward like wings, so the only way a jacket shoulder sweeps upward toward the arm scye is if the way it's cut causes it to rise above the wearer's shoulder at a certain point.