The one real flaw I saw in David Carr was that he did not stand up to Caper's and tell him how he wanted to play the game. He did exactly what he was told, and as we all know, that did not work out.

If you are right it explains something that I read after season 3. Carr went into Capers office and told him he was being sacked too many times and something needed to be done. My first thought was, it took Carr 3 years to figure that out and/or say it?

Carr will continually struggle if he doesn't step up and take ownership. Waiting for a coach too improve his career is just backwards thinking if you ask me.

IMO, players make coaches, not the other way around.

It is very rare that a coach can duplicate the same success at the NFL level (like winning Super Bowls) with completely different players.

Carr went into Capers office and told him he was being sacked too many times and something needed to be done.

My first thought is: The coaching staff then demonstrated their brilliance by "improving" the line with Victor Riley.

__________________Amy glances out the window; her hair, skin, and clothes take on a pronounced reddish tinge from Doppler effect as she drops out of the conversation at relativistic velocity. - Cryptonomicon

My first thought is: The coaching staff then demonstrated their brilliance by "improving" the line with Victor Riley.

With free agency and short rookie contracts, it's hard to assemble an All-Pro offensive line over an extended period time.

Carr was in no worse position than most other QBs in the league. Sure the line was marginal, but he still had AJ and Davis was a good runner in spurts. With that, Carr still struggled and never ran a potent offense that would scare defensive coordinators.

Carr went into Capers office and ask him to give him the chance to call some of his own plays. He was reading the defense and wanted to adjust accordingly. He was told to do as he was told, that he would be benched if he did not use the play that was called. The one time Carr changed the play from what Capers called was in the Titan game 2005, I think, could be wrong about that, and he got benched. Capers was hell bent on doing things his way, PERIOD!! PLEASE don't start the I LOVE CARR crap. I'm just posting some stuff now that I knew back then. David tried a lot harder to change what was going on than any of you want to give him credit. I totally agree with Hollywood, David needed to step up and take ownership, and he didn't do that. A lot of that was due to David's respect for THEIR leadership. The first couple of years he was a young kid trying to learn the in's and out's of the NFL, and Capers and Co came highly regarded for an expansion team. After that the team was slowly disintergrating due to crappy coaching anyway. YES, David was at fault for a lot of things, so lets not repeat all of that. I just don't think many of you know how hard that boy really tried to change things, nor how frustrated he got because his hands were tied. I believe the last couple of years showed just how frustrated he became. The bottom line, it was time for a change, for everyone concerned.

With free agency and short rookie contracts, it's hard to assemble an All-Pro offensive line over an extended period time.

Carr was in no worse position than most other QBs in the league. Sure the line was marginal, but he still had AJ and Davis was a good runner in spurts. With that, Carr still struggled and never ran a potent offense that would scare defensive coordinators.

So you thought Victor Riley was a good move, or do you just want to keep talking about Carr? Riley was bad independent of the QB.

Asking for something better than Victor Riley is hardly demanding an all Pro line. They played him in front of Wand, who in 2004 had better numbers than new Texan fan favorite Jordan Black had last year, and when that didn't work they played him at guard in front of Weary. Too bad neither Seth nor Fred got any development time during that lost season because Joe Pendry had to make room for Riley.

__________________Amy glances out the window; her hair, skin, and clothes take on a pronounced reddish tinge from Doppler effect as she drops out of the conversation at relativistic velocity. - Cryptonomicon

Carr went into Capers office and ask him to give him the chance to call some of his own plays. He was reading the defense and wanted to adjust accordingly. He was told to do as he was told, that he would be benched if he did not use the play that was called. The one time Carr changed the play from what Capers called was in the Titan game 2005, I think, could be wrong about that, and he got benched. Capers was hell bent on doing things his way, PERIOD!! PLEASE don't start the I LOVE CARR crap. I'm just posting some stuff now that I knew back then. David tried a lot harder to change what was going on than any of you want to give him credit. I totally agree with Hollywood, David needed to step up and take ownership, and he didn't do that. A lot of that was due to David's respect for THEIR leadership. The first couple of years he was a young kid trying to learn the in's and out's of the NFL, and Capers and Co came highly regarded for an expansion team. After that the team was slowly disintergrating due to crappy coaching anyway. YES, David was at fault for a lot of things, so lets not repeat all of that. I just don't think many of you know how hard that boy really tried to change things, nor how frustrated he got because his hands were tied. I believe the last couple of years showed just how frustrated he became. The bottom line, it was time for a change, for everyone concerned.

If we just had a rewind button . Bob Mcnair stars in Click ... I'll hire Kubiak since I'm going QB with the first pick . You got that ____ ( insert GM of your choice here ) ?

So you thought Victor Riley was a good move, or do you just want to keep talking about Carr? Riley was bad independent of the QB.

Asking for something better than Victor Riley is hardly demanding an all Pro line. They played him in front of Wand, who in 2004 had better numbers than new Texan fan favorite Jordan Black had last year, and when that didn't work they played him at guard in front of Weary. Too bad neither Seth nor Fred got any development time during that lost season because Joe Pendry had to make room for Riley.

I often wonder if ...

1. The Texans gave up on the offense really quick and just focused on the defense .

1. The Texans gave up on the offense really quick and just focused on the defense .

2. They were stupid .

I'll go with 2. Maybe not stupid, but politically motivated, mean spirited, and incompetent in the jobs they were in. (I guess I didn't go with 2).

I think the single person who had the biggest negative impact on the Texans franchise in its short history was Joe Pendry. By far.

__________________Amy glances out the window; her hair, skin, and clothes take on a pronounced reddish tinge from Doppler effect as she drops out of the conversation at relativistic velocity. - Cryptonomicon

Did they bring in Riley after they went after Pace ? When was Wade signed ?

I think Riley was the least talented player on the OL that we had . Then they put him at LT . It seemed like they had some internal battles and just signed someone .

Wade was signed the previous year I think. Riley after they didn't get Pace.

__________________Amy glances out the window; her hair, skin, and clothes take on a pronounced reddish tinge from Doppler effect as she drops out of the conversation at relativistic velocity. - Cryptonomicon

Not to dwell on DC, but I think the inaugural season's 70+ sacks ruined the rookie QB's psyche. That was brutal, and he never seemed quite the same after that point. Mix in some horrendous coaching for another few years, and we arrive at the present.

I honestly hope the Carolina bench does him some good, but I think he's damaged goods from a mental standpoint. Of course I wish him well as an original Texan.

And not comparing the two QBs and their skills, but I think we'll have better luck with our current situation simply because we have a head coach that will be able to recognize potential and developing problems much better than the previous staff. More importantly than comparing player to player is comparing coaches to coaches. These guys can make or break young players, and I think DC (along with some others) is case in point.

__________________"Football is only a diversion." ~ Houston Texans, Inc.

Not to dwell on DC, but I think the inaugural season's 70+ sacks ruined the rookie QB's psyche. That was brutal, and he never seemed quite the same after that point. Mix in some horrendous coaching for another few years, and we arrive at the present.

I honestly hope the Carolina bench does him some good, but I think he's damaged goods from a mental standpoint. Of course I wish him well as an original Texan.

And not comparing the two QBs and their skills, but I think we'll have better luck with our current situation simply because we have a head coach that will be able to recognize potential and developing problems much better than the previous staff. More importantly than comparing player to player is comparing coaches to coaches. These guys can make or break young players, and I think DC (along with some others) is case in point.

I think Carr and Big Ben are a lot alike . One got a huge break , the other thought he was lucky .

DC would have been best served if he'd been drafted by an established team that could let him get used to the game for 2-3 years before starting (ala Steve McNair). Throwing him to the wolves behind a new, untested line was a dumb coaching decision. We should have let an old veteran get beat up a couple of years before starting a rookie.

And it's not necessarily 20/20 hindsight, because I remember it being a topic of discussion among fans back then. Some would bring up Aikman as an example, but he wasn't on an expansion team so it doesn't compare.

__________________"Football is only a diversion." ~ Houston Texans, Inc.

Carr went into Capers office and ask him to give him the chance to call some of his own plays. He was reading the defense and wanted to adjust accordingly. He was told to do as he was told, that he would be benched if he did not use the play that was called. The one time Carr changed the play from what Capers called was in the Titan game 2005, I think, could be wrong about that, and he got benched. Capers was hell bent on doing things his way, PERIOD!! PLEASE don't start the I LOVE CARR crap. I'm just posting some stuff now that I knew back then. David tried a lot harder to change what was going on than any of you want to give him credit. I totally agree with Hollywood, David needed to step up and take ownership, and he didn't do that. A lot of that was due to David's respect for THEIR leadership. The first couple of years he was a young kid trying to learn the in's and out's of the NFL, and Capers and Co came highly regarded for an expansion team. After that the team was slowly disintergrating due to crappy coaching anyway. YES, David was at fault for a lot of things, so lets not repeat all of that. I just don't think many of you know how hard that boy really tried to change things, nor how frustrated he got because his hands were tied. I believe the last couple of years showed just how frustrated he became. The bottom line, it was time for a change, for everyone concerned.

I would be curious to know if Capers handled his other QB's the same way. Did Kerry Collins have his hands tied without the ability to audible while playing for Capers in Carolina, or did he just suddenly become the world's worst coach and a tyrant?

DC would have been best served if he'd been drafted by an established team that could let him get used to the game for 2-3 years before starting (ala Steve McNair). Throwing him to the wolves behind a new, untested line was a dumb coaching decision. We should have let an old veteran get beat up a couple of years before starting a rookie.

And it's not necessarily 20/20 hindsight, because I remember it being a topic of discussion among fans back then. Some would bring up Aikman as an example, but he wasn't on an expansion team so it doesn't compare.

true and minnesota and that deal just....well won't comment on the desperate times minnesota had