Hey Bryan,
Thanks for the reply,
The acoustic Shell Goes back up tomorrow for 1 more Symphony concert and then I will have time to try that again next week.
I just tried it on my own computer in the offline mode, and it seemed to work, however Obviously I don`t have the 5x5 in front of me, but it does make sense.
Still trying to customize the console for our needs, and learning all the tricks of the console in the process.
Thanks for the help and I will get back to you with the results, when I get a chance to try it.
Thanks again,
Soundguy

Hi Bryan
Happy new year, to you and everyone here.
After a Christmas, New Years and bad case of the flu I finally got back on the console..LOL
I did what you suggested and I managed to record to the 5x5 pallet on the right side of the console, just as you described. So with it set to bump and the look page to bump toggle everything work fine.
That being said though, now were having problems recording that back into the cues.
We select the moment from the 5x5 and try and record into cue using either live or delta mode, and it records everything except the action (ballyhoo or Can Can).
We have even had problems recording a movement from a sub master into a cue. What are we doing wrong that causing it not record from the 5x5 into the cue?
ALSO
on a second note, and as I posted on this previous, were noticing that when you record balley hoo direct into a cue you get an icon in the action colom indicating theres a movement recorded in the cue. Then when I create a new cue fresh, without the balley Hoo, theres no action icon on the cue, however the Mac Heads are still moving in the balley hoo, even though their not on, and I didn`t ask for the balley hoo. Its like the movement gets tracked to the next cues even without me programing them on that cue. Keeping in mind we have the console in track only mode.
Just some weird quirks of the console were trying to understand, and its driving us nuts.
Again any help is greatly appreciate, and would help take our frustration level down a few pegs..LOL
Thanks,
soundguy

I've run into this before a few times. The only way I've been able to get it to record the action into the cue is to use the Load function instead of using the bump button or submaster. This will load all of the values from the look along with the action, similar to capturing those channels and creating the effect from scratch. You can then record (either Live or Delta) and then release everything. I believe this will also allow you to load an effect, click on it in the "Running Effects" window, and modify it if you need to before recording the cue. Just remember that when you press Load, then Look, it defaults to your first look page. You may need to select a different look page using the S/M keys to get to the look you want.

As far as the ballyhoo tracking through, the effect will continue to run until you give the fixtures another command. There are a couple ways to get the effect to stop. If the effect is only in one cue, the easiest way I've found to deal with it is to go into that cue, select the effect, set the duration to "Active Cue Only" and hit update. If the effect runs for multiple cues, then all you need to do is go to the cue where the effect is supposed to stop and record a position in that cue. If you want the lights to fade completely before stopping, you can set a delay on the position time in the cue where the effect stops equal to the intensity fade time.

Thanks bryan,
I just tried it at home here with the offline editor, and seemed to work. Seems strange to have to do another step (ie the load command) though. For the most part youre going to be recording into cue or submaster anyways, so you would think that if the effect is running you should be able to record it directly, including the action, not quite sure what the purpose of the load command is.
Also on the balley hoo tracking, I didn`t see the active cue only, but I saw the active cue under the duration. Seem to work, however again, it would be nice to either have a second option under the "cue only" mode under show options, for the running effects, so it sets it that way by default, or when you do select the "cue only" mode it also applies it to the actions effects as well, so it sets by default and you don`t have to keep doing these extra steps, keeping the process of building a cue list for a show allot more fluid and smooth.
I will try and find some time tomorrow to try these out on the console itself.
Thanks again,
soundguy

Hi again,
I managed to get on the console, and try these out and took 2 steps forward and about a half dozzen backwards.
Bryan what you described worked, however it created some extra work and raised a few more questions.
In regards to the 5x5 pallet, yes using the load command you can load positions and looks and effects from the 5x5 palllet into the programer, and then record that into a cue including the action (running effect).
The problem here is that you cant just hit (LOAD, [A}) or even (LOAD, [POS], [A}) the load command doesn`t recognize the 5x5. Which means you have to use the SHIFT LOAD and then select the cuelist, lookpage and look #, you want to load from the 5x5 from the pop up menu and then hit ok, and thats just to load it into the programmer, then you still have to hit record to record it back into the cue.
I am sorry but it seems like allot more work than what it should be. To me the Idea of saving things to the 5x5 is supposed to make things easier and less work not more, and when you have a director breathing down your neck ,doing those extra steps can be just as frustrating as doing it from scratch. It doesn`t seem to feel that youre any further ahead.
Secondly on the tracking, again bryan thanks you were right about setting the duration to active cue. The problem with that, when we were playing with it today was, when you wanted to copy a cue lets say from 2 to cue 5 because the director likes the balleyhoo on cue 1, the action doesn`t get recorded with it unless you again use the load command and then record it back, and even then it doesn`t copy the active cue mode. Also if you want to just record the action to the next cue lets say Cue2 to cue 3 you still have to load it first and the record it back to cue 3 in order for the action to get recorded as well, and then you still have to back to all your actions and set the duration to "active cue", so the running effect doesn`t track down into cues you don`t want to them to be in. It just seems like allot of work. I even tried setting the Cue Type to Preset, and although it saved me from using the active cue option, and prevented the effect from running on cues that didn`t have the action icon in it, it also prevented Other action (running effects), from running on cues further down the cue list. Basically using the preset Cue mode, any running effects assigned to cues further down the cue list would turn on the macs but not run any of the effects.
So youre again no further ahead. We tend to do allot of manipulating of the cues, taking 1 cue and recording it somewhere else in one situation, and taking a cue manipulating it and re-recording it to another. We also trying to incorporate our moving lights into the shows for effects. So instead of programing on effects on the fly were trying to save some time and save them on the 5x5 to show the director what might work and then after they select something we then can record it back into the cue along with the other conventional fixtures. You would think it would be easier than it seems to be.
So I don`t know if I am missing something, or what, but it seems like every time we try and save ourselves some work and try to find a shortcut, it seems like we end up having to do more steps and get no further ahead. Something that should seem basic is feeling like its allot more complicated.
Again thanks bryan for the help,
Maybe if bryan or anyone else has any other advice on shortcuts we can use, or try, it would be much appreciated,
Also if someone here from strand can look at these issues, and put it in for a future update that would greatly appreciated,
Thanks again,
soundguy

Maybe I should clarify the load syntax: When you use Load, as far as I know the 5x5 century array buttons will not put the anything on the command line. You need to press [Load] [Look] [#]. This defaults to your submasters. If you need to get to a different look page, press [Load] [Look] [S2 - Look Page] [M1-M12 - Whatever look page you want] [#]. This command is only necessary for looks that have actions recorded in them. If there is no icon in the action column for a look (groups, positions, colors, and other palettes) you can select the fixtures and press the 5x5 button, assuming that the 5x5 array is set to apply palette.

There are also 2 other suggestions I have which may make you life easier:
1. To save keystrokes, I usually record a page of subs for programming, and another for running a performance. Under Display, check "Virtual Subs" to display the submasters at the top of the screen. While programming, set the box on the left of the virtual subs to your programming submaster page (in this case, your effects look page). Then, any time you press look it will default to that look page and you don't have to worry about pressing the S or M keys to select another page. When you're done programming, set the box on the left back to your performance submaster page. Just make sure all of the subs are inactive before you switch pages.

2. If all of your effects are recorded to looks, and the bump mode is set to toggle, you can add a macro to the cue to bump the look on and off. Double click the action column for the cue, click the macro button, select "Bump Look" and click insert. In the popup box set your options, the first is Look Page and #, the second is the action (1 for On, 0 for Off). The downside to this is that you lose cue timing on your effect, but if it's not needed this is a quick & dirty way to just turn it on and off. If you want to have a little more finesse over timing, you can also create cue sequences on other cue lists and use macros to start another cue list and then release it to stop the effect.

With the "Active Cue" duration, it's going to set it to whatever is in the look you load. If you bump on that look, select the effect, change the duration to "Active Cue" and update, then anytime you load that look the duration should be set to "Active Cue". Then if you load it to record into a cue and need it to go on for more than one cue, you can select it in the first cue and set it back to continuous. Since it sounds like you're using some effects for a single cue and some for multiple cues, either way it's recorded in the look you're loading is going to require you to modify it for that specific moment.

As far as recalling a cue to put it somewhere later in the show, use the copy function. You can either check the "Copy Cue State" box to get the exact cue, or leave it unchecked to allow values from whatever cue is immediately before the new cue you're creating to track into the new cue. It works much better than going to a cue and recording it as a new cue, especially with effects. Just remember that copy selects the cue with the blue edit box around it, not necessarily the active cue. If you need to copy a range of cues, select the first or last in the range and hold down shift while arrowing up or down to select more than 1 cue.

Hey Thanks again for the continuing help I really appreciate it ,
Hey Golights thanks for the script and I will defiantly look that over and try it. As I just trying to get my head around some of the other functions of the console, and not quite to the scripts yet, I will still give it a try. I do like the idea of a kills subs (panic button) however I think the DBO Blackout conventional fixtures would be similar at least in our situation, But i defiantly look it over.
Bryan using the virtual fadders is an interesting idea. In our situation, we don`t really have a performance Sub page. We tend to just use sub page 5 with all of our specials, breakups washes, cyc, tips, and LX's ect on that page. We also tend to have 6 or so faders that are free for on the fly stuff. For productions we then just use that default page to build our cues, I just started working on another page or 2 for situationss where we have to break up the stage (left/right), cyc lights, and when we use our side lighting for ballet. I suppose using the virtual sub masters would make it easier to switch between Sub page 5 and our Effects page (the same one on the 5x5). As I haven`t tried it it would be nice to have the virtual subs on the effects page and Sub Master 5 still displayed on the actual fadders. That way you can set your dimmers with your normal sub master (fadders), but when you hit the load it will default to the look page as you virtual subs, in this case our effects page but I don`t think that will work, as it will probably put the effect page from your virtual subs on to your fadders as well.
Something I am just sitting here thinking about is, actually using the fadders themselves. If I can setup the M1 + M2 Keys as buttons to scroll up and down through the different look pages and move our effects pages up underneath Sub Master 5 Page, possibly we could quickly jump down to the effects page load the effects record it into the cue and scroll back to sub page 5. It might work. Weather or not its assigned to the 5x5 would be irreverent depending on the situation. You could still use the 5x5 for color, pos and gobo you just wouldn`t be able to do effects.
It just sounds crazy, the idea was to have everything at your fingertips, the 64 fadders for conventional lighting, and the 5x5 for moving lights and effects, even if you have to use an alt or a shift button now and again, its there and it seems counter intuitive to have to go through menus for some of these features.
I also have to apologize I didn`t even think of recording the effect with the Active cue only option saved into the look page with the effect. That one blew right by me..lol. That would make sense, and if we need to track it into the next cue, we can either change it back to continuous or, use copy the command, and copy the cue to the next one. Maybe its just me trying to be lazy, but I don`t like playing around in, pop up screens with some of these functions. When I have time on my own without the director over my shoulder, and I want to do work on something specfic then I don`t mind playing with pop menus but when youre on a roll spending 4 or so hours building a show, it makes things tedious. It would be nice if your running a cue, for instance running Cue 4,when you hit the copy button, for it to come up on the command line, COPY CUE 4 TO ... and then all you have to do is hit 6 or where ever and enter and its done. Its the extra steps that are driving us nuts.
But I will play around with more next time I am at the console,
Again thanks for suggestions, I am learning more about the console with these suggestion its much appreciated,
Thanks,
soundguy

Hi guys,
Messed around with again, and Recording and action into the 5x5 with the active only does work. So it does solve that.
I still have a few issues with the process of all these things and all the of the steps I keep finding myself taking to accomplish what seems to be simple and routine tasks.
We only have the 1 smaller monitor so having the virtual fadders plus the running effects and dimmer channels can be a bit annoying as all that information does take up allot of space on the screen.
Even was going to access the Effects page on the faders and switch between them using the look, Alt S 1+2 keys. but noticed that if I don`t have all of the attributes assigned, it won`t show up under that first page, so I can`t use the Alt S1+S2 trick, I would have to go into look page and then select from the look page (ie pos, gobo, other, ect), then hit look 2 or whatever. And some of that stuff like the effects gobo, pos, ect, I don`t want all of the attributes assigned to it. For the effect, I just need enough to do the balley hoos and can cans, so I can still throw the gobo and color over top. Still allot of steps.
I am going to try use the M1 + M7 keys for cycling up and down look pages on the fadder, so if some one can help me with the script on that that would be very helpfull. So basicly I would like to be to hit M7 and it would automaticly load the next look page on the fadders what ever that may be. Do something with the fadders and hit the M1 and it would go back to previous look page and put it on the fadders and give me access to our main page fadders.
I don`t know if thats possible or not.
2 other things I noticed, is when you do cycle through look pages, is if youre using both look fadders (Ie fadder 1) on 2 different look pages, the second you go to set the fadder on the second page, to get access to it you have to turn the fadder right down, and then back up, which then cancels the look from the first page on the same fadder. You almost have to save it first then go to the second page and add on. It would nice, that once you may that switch to another look page, that fadder doesn`t have any control over the look from the previous page, until you go back to the page, where that look is stored. Also because were not using the virtual fadders it would be nice, to have the current look page your fadders are on, above the clock in the bottom right hand corner, so you always have an idea of what look page your fadders are on.
Any sorry if this is sounding, like I am complaining, Just trying to wrap my head around this, and every time, I try and do something, and make things simple, theres always something, that turns up that prevents me from taking the comfortable, more simple path. Just a little frustrating. It would be nice of strand to just change a few of these things around to make it just that much more faster to do these operations. Reminds of the the audio guys are going through with digital boards right now..LOL
Anyeays thanks bryan, and GoLight if you have any further suggestions please feel free, another it may not sound like it, the suggestions are a huge help.
Thanks again,
soundguy

I can probably save you some trouble with trying to make a macro to switch between look pages on subs, I've tried it and never got it to work. And unfortunately when you have active subs and you switch pages, the active subs aren't going to change. Without automated faders like on digital audio consoles, there's really not a better way to deal with it. If your using subs to bring up conventional fixtures to program, you might be better off using groups instead. It's only a few keystrokes instead of bringing up a fader so it really doesn't change the amount of time it takes to do something, and it will free up a lot of subs. If you don't want to re-record things, you can go into the settings and change the Group key to reference the look page you already have recorded, so Group 1 would be Look 1 on that page, etc.