A team we should have beaten - 4 point favorite. We've had our chances in this non-conference schedule and didn't pick up one. A-10 auto bid or nothing now.
Now think 4th or 5th in the A-10 because it is so weak . Still a next year guy.
Thoughts?

Another team we should have beaten.... bologna!! We are not that good. We are generally undersized. We don’t defend very well. We don’t shoot very well. Our point guard is at best average but has the ball a disproportionate amount of time and can’t make plays against quality opponents. Unfortunately there are few fixes for what ails us, it’s talent and that can’t be remedied easily.Posted via Mobile Device

Maybe Figgie can research this - I have a gut feeling that the Flyers have struggled almost every time they play an afternoon game over the past few years. It's almost like it throws their schedule off and gets them out of rhythm. Am I loopy or do they always seem to underperform in mid-afternoon games?

(If I was a betting man I might bet against them in afternoon games. Kind of like the "home underdog opposite turf" angle in the NFL.)

Another team we should have beaten.... bologna!! We are not that good. We are generally undersized. We don’t defend very well. We don’t shoot very well. Our point guard is at best average but has the ball a disproportionate amount of time and can’t make plays against quality opponents. Unfortunately there are few fixes for what ails us, it’s talent and that can’t be remedied easily.Posted via Mobile Device

It is evident that you are in the group of the glass half empty vs. the glass half full! You are not shy about trying to emphasize all of what you perceive our weaknesses are! Let me defend our players like you should instead of tearing them down: First, you state we are not that good! Well, we defeated 7-3 Butler who has defeated Ole Miss and Florida and is picked to finish high in the Big East. We took a probable final 4 team, Virginia, down to the wire and might have beaten them except an official swallowed his whistle when Ty Jerome fouled Obi Toppin on a moving screen which allowed De'Andre Hunter to make a crucial 3 pointer in the waning moments of the game! We are not undersized! Obi Toppin set a school record with eight dunks in the Detroit game! We do defend albeit better at home than on the road. We don't shoot very well and our point guard is at best average: Let me point out that in the victory over Butler in the Bahamas Jalen Crutcher scored 20 points on 6-8 shooting and making 3 of 4 three point shots. He also made several crucial free throws down the stretch.

Finally, you say there are few fixes for what ailes us, that being talent! Thanks for giving our guys bulletin board material! When they win the A-10 and or get the automatic bid for winning the conference tournament I wonder if you and udscott will even make a comment! We probably won't even hear from you!

Point guards have the ball a disproportionate time because they are point guards. In all of Div. 1 basketball, Crutcher might be considered average, as you say, but he's improved and he's the only one we got. This is not a bad loss. Losing to Fordham would be a bad loss. Of our five losses, three teams clearly had more and better talent. We have had second half leads in all games but have not made the winning play. Before the season started, I hoped for 20 wins and I still think that's possible.

Fordham

FORDHAM
Fordham University is an independent Jesuit university established in 1841 as St. John's College on old Rose Hill Manor in the village of Fordham, then part of Westchester County in the Bronx, NY. The name Fordham is derived from the Anglo-Saxon words "ford" and "ham," meaning a wading place or ford by a settlement. Rose Hill is the name given to the site in 1787 by Robert Watts, a wealthy New York merchant, in honor of his family's ancestral home of the same name in Scotland. The College was originally staffed by diocesan clergy. The name was officially changed to Fordham University in 1907. Fordham's 10 schools enroll 14,448 students. There are 7,652 undergraduates, of whom 3,842 live in University-managed housing either on-campus or in the local community. Fellow members of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the Rams. Athletic claim to fame is consistent mediocrity in nearly all sports and few A10 title winning programs.

Not sure how anyone could have a complaint with Crutcher. Making plays against quality opponents is a two way street

I'm not sure he should be taking 11 threes in a game like today but one no one else is making plays on the perimeter I'd rather him try to step up

His threes were all coming up short, for the most part. I agree 11 is too many but AG should be instructing the supporting cast to give Jalen some help and they all should drive to the basket more instead of just passing around the perimeter until the shot clock runs down and someone has to shoot a three!

Hopefully, the whole team can regain their form in these next three games before the A-10 starts!

A team we should have beaten - 4 point favorite. We've had our chances in this non-conference schedule and didn't pick up one. A-10 auto bid or nothing now.
Now think 4th or 5th in the A-10 because it is so weak . Still a next year guy.
Thoughts?

so much I want to say, but then I remember I have to type lol..) the title of this thread suxx unfiltered Boston Harbor water... this is not a bad loss, this was a win we could of had against another good team.. not just open 3's but we missed many short jumpers and running layups in the first half...
in Brian Gregory's 3rd year here, we had Monty Scott, Charles Little, Norm Plummer, Brian Roberts and were 14-17, with many close losses by less than ten points.. it was our first losing season in 19 years and we had many chicken littles running around telling all of us the sky is falling! we have good players and can't win, woe is me...we only had maybe one bad game, I think we played at UMass and the team didn't show, got blast3ed by nineteen or something like that..
what happened nexdt season?

we got Marcus Johnson and London Warren as freshmen, and we won 19 games..
this team, right now, is looking good, better than I expected at the start of the year..

our non conference strength of schedule is 23rd in the nation.. we have NOT had a bad loss yet...
I am hoping this helps iin the Atlantic 10... we have the toughest strength of schedule in non conference games in the A10.. dear lord Grand Canyon University plays a tougher non con schedule than St Louis..
I am hoping for a top 4 A10 finish, and have already posted here my predicction: we win the tournament and get the automatic bid... we were predicted 6th or thereabouts, we will beat that... I have seen this before several times with different UD coaches.. next year we are loaded for bear...

London Warren

LONDON WARREN
6-0 185lb Junior
Raines, HS | Jacksonville FL

Nicknamed the "Jacksonville Jet", London Warren is perhaps UD's quickest player baseline to baseline. Leader in steals defensively, he likes to push tempo on offense. Working on his shot and confidence at the charity stripe.

2007-08 | 4.3ppg 2.9rpg2006-07 | 2.4ppg 1.7rpg

Massachusetts

MASSACHUSETTS
UMass Amherst, the flagship campus of the University of Massachusetts system, sits on nearly 1,450-acres in the scenic Pioneer Valley of Western Massachusetts, 90 miles from Boston and 175 miles from New York City. The campus provides a rich cultural environment in a rural setting close to major urban centers. UMass enrolls over 20,000 undergraduates and 5,000 post-grad students. Fellow members of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the Minutemen. Women's teams known as the Minutewomen. Sports achievements include NCAA Final Four appearances in men's basketball and women's soccer.

Saint Louis

SAINT LOUIS
Saint Louis University is a Jesuit, Catholic university ranked among the top research institutions in the nation. The University fosters the intellectual and character development of more than 12,700 students. Founded in 1818, it is the oldest university west of the Mississippi and the second oldest Jesuit university in the United States. Located in St. Louis, MO, and just five minutes from the Gateway Arch, SLU offers 85 undergraduate programs and over 50 graduate study tracks. Over 99% of the SLU faculty hold the highest degree in their respective fields. Fellow member of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the Billikens, but also commonly known as "Sloo", the phonetic pronunciation of the school's initials. Athletic claims to fame include multiple national titles in men's soccer and men's basketball star Larry Hughes.

Brian Gregory

BRIAN GREGORY
UD Men's Basketball Head Coach since 2004. Groomed by the likes of Judd Heathcoate and Tom Izzo at Michigan State, as well as Kevin O'Neill and others, Gregory's defensive-minded leadership has led Dayton to NCAA and multiple NIT appearances. A good recruiter, BG has elevated the athleticism of the squad in recent years and kept top area talent at home. Still looking for that breakthrough season with his own players that catapult him to the NCAA tourney. Graduated from Oakland University.

This is not truly a “bad” loss, but it’s possibly the most disappointing loss because it came against our most evenly matched opponent to date. And IIRC, this was the first game we were favored to win, but lost. It forces me to keep reminding myself that we’re still painfully young (3 freshmen, 2 sophomores, and 1 junior with only a year of true game experience, to go with 1 junior and 1 senior), and a bit undersized (only 4 guys 6’6” or taller among our 8 available players). And it makes me appreciate all the more what the Magnificent Seven was able to accomplish with 3 sophomores in the starting lineup, and a bench that consisted of a freshman and a walkon.

Not a bad loss, but definitely one that grounds my expectations for the rest of the season.Posted via Mobile Device

This is not truly a “bad” loss, but it’s possibly the most disappointing loss because it came against our most evenly matched opponent to date. And IIRC, this was the first game we were favored to win, but lost. It forces me to keep reminding myself that we’re still painfully young (3 freshmen, 2 sophomores, and 1 junior with only a year of true game experience, to go with 1 junior and 1 senior), and a bit undersized (only 4 guys 6’6” or taller among our 8 available players). And it makes me appreciate all the more what the Magnificent Seven was able to accomplish with 3 sophomores in the starting lineup, and a bench that consisted of a freshman and a walkon.

Not a bad loss, but definitely one that grounds my expectations for the rest of the season.Posted via Mobile Device

The loss of Jerry hurts more than most realize- he played solid D, was a 3 point threat and had great court vision. Also significant is the fact that Frankie is behind the curve having sit out the first 6 games. I think everyone knows this team has potential and is close to being very good. I’m trying to remember its how you finish thats most important. The 3rd year begins the real progress in my opinion. I still think this team wins 20 this year.Posted via Mobile Device

We lost by 5 although favored by 4 on a neutral court. Tulsa is a very good team and should make tourney. They are undefeated at home.

We were tied at half time. We lost by 5. Shot 5 for 23 from three point range. If we shot 7 for 23 (not a good percentage either), we would have won by one or more if we shot 10 for 23 and the doom and gloomers would have nothing to complain about. We will have our ups and downs but, gang, give the team and Tulsa some credit. Come in off the ledge, things are not that bad.

Grant's inability to call a timeout to stop momentum or make an adjustment never ceases to amaze me. They scored on 7 straight possessions late in the 2nd half, on something like a 14-2 run. My mom would have known to call a TO in that situation, it's astounding.

At this point in our season, the only hope we have for post season play is to win the A10. Therefore, I'm betting that Grant sees the big picture (the season) and isn't micromanaging every possession, therefore forcing his young team to fight thru certain situations in order to improve play when it counts...which is in 4 games.

At this point in our season, the only hope we have for post season play is to win the A10. Therefore, I'm betting that Grant sees the big picture (the season) and isn't micromanaging every possession, therefore forcing his young team to fight thru certain situations in order to improve play when it counts...which is in 4 games.

You're probably right, Grant's playing chess and the rest of the NCAA is playing checkers. I think most of the good coaches do this, let the guys figure it out on their own rather then, well, actually coaching.

You're probably right, Grant's playing chess and the rest of the NCAA is playing checkers. I think most of the good coaches do this, let the guys figure it out on their own rather then, well, actually coaching.

C'mon Browns...this is real basketball, not youth.

Sometimes 'coaching' requires the man in charge to step back and see if his minions can actually think, play and make decisions on their own based on what you've practiced. If all the players do is look to the bench for instructions (Brian Gregory) then they are reacting and will always be a step behind their opponents.

We don't need robots. We need players. And the less instructions they need, the better off we'll be when it matters.

Unless you're a CYO-level coach, in which case the team and fans are in trouble.

Brian Gregory

BRIAN GREGORY
UD Men's Basketball Head Coach since 2004. Groomed by the likes of Judd Heathcoate and Tom Izzo at Michigan State, as well as Kevin O'Neill and others, Gregory's defensive-minded leadership has led Dayton to NCAA and multiple NIT appearances. A good recruiter, BG has elevated the athleticism of the squad in recent years and kept top area talent at home. Still looking for that breakthrough season with his own players that catapult him to the NCAA tourney. Graduated from Oakland University.

Sometimes 'coaching' requires the man in charge to step back and see if his minions can actually think, play and make decisions on their own based on what you've practiced. If all the players do is look to the bench for instructions (Brian Gregory) then they are reacting and will always be a step behind their opponents.

We don't need robots. We need players. And the less instructions they need, the better off we'll be when it matters.

Unless you're a CYO-level coach, in which case the team and fans are in trouble.

You don't honestly believe that Grant has some master plan every game when he goes home with 2/3 TO's still in his pocket, do you? Archie used those every time in those situations. Maybe Archie just didn't know what he was doing?

Brian Gregory

BRIAN GREGORY
UD Men's Basketball Head Coach since 2004. Groomed by the likes of Judd Heathcoate and Tom Izzo at Michigan State, as well as Kevin O'Neill and others, Gregory's defensive-minded leadership has led Dayton to NCAA and multiple NIT appearances. A good recruiter, BG has elevated the athleticism of the squad in recent years and kept top area talent at home. Still looking for that breakthrough season with his own players that catapult him to the NCAA tourney. Graduated from Oakland University.

I would take Davis out of the starting lineup. Move Mikesell to the true two, and let him share point guard and quarterback duties. I would play Frankie more, and thus go big longer in each game by having Obi and Josh on the floor as much as possible. Then I would post Mikesell up on the other teams guards under the basket, and play high low constantly with Obi, Josh, and Mikesell. I feel this would address some of the size disparity issues. If we are going to be a half-court team, then we might as well substitute and game plan with that in mind.

Then you bring Davis and Cohill in to switch up the pace of the game periodically. Hit them with the change of pace, give some guys their breather, and the return to power half-court lineup; repeat steps as needed. This team, and program in general, have to get better at attacking the middle and forcing the officials to call fouls; but also have to greatly improve free throw shooting. Cunningham, Mikesell, Crutcher, Landers, and Obi, could make a living at the free throw line, but Flyers are not patient enough or deliberate enough in their attack. And constantly letting the other team off the hook when their bigs are in foul trouble. If UD would attack a foul troubled big, they way Tulsa did against flyers, likely win 2 or three more games thus far.

You don't honestly believe that Grant has some master plan every game when he goes home with 2/3 TO's still in his pocket, do you? Archie used those every time in those situations. Maybe Archie just didn't know what he was doing?

I'm guessing that someone who was a pretty solid player at UD, who has worked under a pretty successful head coach (Donovan) at Florida (and the NBA), and who has been a successful head coach for a pretty long time knows when and when not to call a time-out. To suggest that he doesn't have a clue because he doesn't use all his timeouts indicates you're still in CYO mode where over-coaching is an epidemic.

So yes, I do believe that Grant has a master plan. As someone who is heavily invested in basketball, I can say with confidence that the best coaches I see are the ones I hear the least from and who appear to do the least in-game coaching...which you interpret as being clueless and I interpret as being appropriate.

I would take Davis out of the starting lineup. Move Mikesell to the true two, and let him share point guard and quarterback duties. I would play Frankie more, and thus go big longer in each game by having Obi and Josh on the floor as much as possible. Then I would post Mikesell up on the other teams guards under the basket, and play high low constantly with Obi, Josh, and Mikesell. I feel this would address some of the size disparity issues. If we are going to be a half-court team, then we might as well substitute and game plan with that in mind.

Then you bring Davis and Cohill in to switch up the pace of the game periodically. Hit them with the change of pace, give some guys their breather, and the return to power half-court lineup; repeat steps as needed. This team, and program in general, have to get better at attacking the middle and forcing the officials to call fouls; but also have to greatly improve free throw shooting. Cunningham, Mikesell, Crutcher, Landers, and Obi, could make a living at the free throw line, but Flyers are not patient enough or deliberate enough in their attack. And constantly letting the other team off the hook when their bigs are in foul trouble. If UD would attack a foul troubled big, they way Tulsa did against flyers, likely win 2 or three more games thus far.

Excellent post, Beatty Town Coach! And I never thought I would be saying that in Jordan's sophomore year. My posts on him last year were things like "fearless," "warrior," and "ice in his veins." This year he seems so out of touch. I believe a turning point in yesterday's game was the two-on-one break he had with Mikesell. He was pushing it toward the basket, as he should, and then when the defender approached him, he for whatever reason, switched the ball to his left hand and made one of the worst passes imaginable. The Flyers lost two points and it would have put them ahead by either four or six. That was a turning point and it was all downhill from there.

I'm guessing that someone who was a pretty solid player at UD, who has worked under a pretty successful head coach (Donovan) at Florida (and the NBA), and who has been a successful head coach for a pretty long time knows when and when not to call a time-out. To suggest that he doesn't have a clue because he doesn't use all his timeouts indicates you're still in CYO mode where over-coaching is an epidemic.

So yes, I do believe that Grant has a master plan. As someone who is heavily invested in basketball, I can say with confidence that the best coaches I see are the ones I hear the least from and who appear to do the least in-game coaching...which you interpret as being clueless and I interpret as being appropriate.

Excellent post, Beatty Town Coach! And I never thought I would be saying that in Jordan's sophomore year. My posts on him last year were things like "fearless," "warrior," and "ice in his veins." This year he seems so out of touch. I believe a turning point in yesterday's game was the two-on-one break he had with Mikesell. He was pushing it toward the basket, as he should, and then when the defender approached him, he for whatever reason, switched the ball to his left hand and made one of the worst passes imaginable. The Flyers lost two points and it would have put them ahead by either four or six. That was a turning point and it was all downhill from there.

I think that was the break away with Trey. Trey told him he was expecting an alley oop pass and Jordan tried a shovel pass.

I'm guessing that someone who was a pretty solid player at UD, who has worked under a pretty successful head coach (Donovan) at Florida (and the NBA), and who has been a successful head coach for a pretty long time knows when and when not to call a time-out.

I hope you're right Rollo. As you know, I am not at all sold on this fact.

I've been teaching engineering and/or math on the side for 17+ years and at some point I have told dozens of confused students after numerous lectures that they just need to figure it out for themselves. I cannot solve everyone's problems and at the same time expect them to learn. Neither can a coach.

The non-conference is the best time to see what Policelli and Cohill can do so if they're needed you know where to put them. With Matos out, this should be easy to understand. Archie let his players work thru their issues, sometimes to a fault!...Gregory over-subbed and over-TO'd everyone to death. I'll take the former's results over the latter's but it'll take time.

Brian Gregory

BRIAN GREGORY
UD Men's Basketball Head Coach since 2004. Groomed by the likes of Judd Heathcoate and Tom Izzo at Michigan State, as well as Kevin O'Neill and others, Gregory's defensive-minded leadership has led Dayton to NCAA and multiple NIT appearances. A good recruiter, BG has elevated the athleticism of the squad in recent years and kept top area talent at home. Still looking for that breakthrough season with his own players that catapult him to the NCAA tourney. Graduated from Oakland University.

I'm going to support Rollo and his theory of Grant letting the players figure it out and see what he has to work with going into league play. It certainly creates teachable film and gives players a sense of ownership. Anyone remember when Temple played in our league? Chaney's teams always seemed to play about .500 ball going into league play. Then they thumped about everyone on the schedule. His players seemed to gain a season's worth of experience from that out of conference stretch going into league play.

Temple

TEMPLE UNIVERSITY
Founded in 1884 by Dr. Russell Conwell, Temple College became Temple University in 1907. Located in Philadelphia, Temple is a comprehensive public research university with 34,000 students, 8 campuses, and 300 academic degree programs. Notable alumni include Bill Cosby and Daryl Hall. Temple's nickname is the Owls and are fellow A10 Conference members.

My beef with AG not calling a timeout had zero to do with instruction or over-coaching.

The first media timeout did not occur until nearly the 13 minute mark of the first half. The boys were gassed and AG was playing with a short bench of his own doing. Oh, and by the way, Tulsa was having their way with us. Call a friggin' timeout.

The other scenario was around the 5 min mark in the 2nd half when he wanted to (finally) sub out Frankie or Mikesell with Obi and Tulsa had 3 possesions w/out a stoppage of play where they were able to isolate those two and get easy buckets or fouls. Call a friggin' timeout.

The team came out cold and flat. It had been 8 days since the last game. The team was focused on exams. We got beat at the skill positions. Their guards out played our guards. We did not get beat by their bigs. The book on Tulsa prior to the game was that their guards liked to drive to the lane and force fouls. It appeared to me that Dayton players were coached to expect this. Dayton did a great job in prohibiting their drives. We dared them to settle for a 3 point shot. To our surprise, Tulsa made their 3 point shots in the first part of the game. Dayton missed several layups. Maybe Tulsa defended well that caused the miss? We dug ourselves a hole in the first half and then showed great togetherness to follow the coaches strategy of play and got it to even at the half. But, that took a lot of emotion to accomplish. I was concerned how the second half would be played. We came out and scored right away. I was hopeful.

Our skilled positions at guard got out played in the second half. The only time that a rim protector would of helped was when Davis got faked out of his socks. Davis stepped right and the Tulsa guard stepped left and blew by him to a layup.

Even with all this, it came down to Mikesell missing an open 3 pointer. He missed the GAME shot.Posted via Mobile Device

What is the magic in a timeout? Some kind of divine intervention going to possess the team and make everything right - just because the coach called time out? Just sounds like announcer babble to me; to fill up any chance of "quiet" air time.
You call a timeout when you see something that needs a lot of explaining.... The game plan should be pretty well set and the players should be able to see where they are relative to it. IMHO, just calling "time out" does nothing.

Though Dayton fell victim to a brutal call by the refs today as well, it’s tough to see the Flyers’ “bad luck” score as much other than coaching. Anthony Grant’s decision to take Josh Cunningham and Obi Toppin out of the game with 3 fouls stifled the Flyers who got outplayed in the final minutes. Grant just has not been a great in-game coach now in his 2nd season at Dayton, and that’s beginning to show even more this year as Dayton is just 5-5 on the young season.

What is the magic in a timeout? Some kind of divine intervention going to possess the team and make everything right - just because the coach called time out? Just sounds like announcer babble to me; to fill up any chance of "quiet" air time.
You call a timeout when you see something that needs a lot of explaining.... The game plan should be pretty well set and the players should be able to see where they are relative to it. IMHO, just calling "time out" does nothing.

Take a look at the box score and each players minutes for Dayton compared to Tulsa. I think one team would have benefited from more stoppage in play.

What is the magic in a timeout? Some kind of divine intervention going to possess the team and make everything right - just because the coach called time out? Just sounds like announcer babble to me; to fill up any chance of "quiet" air time.
You call a timeout when you see something that needs a lot of explaining.... The game plan should be pretty well set and the players should be able to see where they are relative to it. IMHO, just calling "time out" does nothing.

It has far more to do with attempting to stall the momentum of your opponent than it does trying to instill some type of head-strong into your team, although it never hurts to have a coach that can recognize things without the players running full speed past them..Also, look at the depth and mpg these guys are playing...

1st quarter the more talented of the 2 teams comes out flat and the play was ugly. They were lost and the coaches were doing - literally - nothing. At the end of the quarter they were losing and the team was flustered. In the 2nd quarter the coaches started making changes, adjustments and - viol'a - the better team took charge and eventually won BIG.

After the game I'm leaving and bump into an assistant coach and asked WTF happened in the first quarter. He said the team needed 'an attitude adjustment' and that the kids stopped listening to the head coach because 'they think they know everything'. So the coaches decided NOT to coach the first quarter and let the players play on their own. So, just as the coaches thought/knew, the kids found out for themselves that they don't know everything and actually need coaching if they want to win.

My Royal Point: Sometimes coaches know what they're doing.

With that in mind, from what I see in games and hear from insiders, I'm under the assumption that Grant knows exactly what he's doing and will be patient (2 more years) as our players adjust to the way Grant wants to do things.

1st quarter the more talented of the 2 teams comes out flat and the play was ugly. They were lost and the coaches were doing - literally - nothing. At the end of the quarter they were losing and the team was flustered. In the 2nd quarter the coaches started making changes, adjustments and - viol'a - the better team took charge and eventually won BIG.

After the game I'm leaving and bump into an assistant coach and asked WTF happened in the first quarter. He said the team needed 'an attitude adjustment' and that the kids stopped listening to the head coach because 'they think they know everything'. So the coaches decided NOT to coach the first quarter and let the players play on their own. So, just as the coaches thought/knew, the kids found out for themselves that they don't know everything and actually need coaching if they want to win.

My Royal Point: Sometimes coaches know what they're doing.

With that in mind, from what I see in games and here from insiders, I'm under the assumption that Grant knows exactly what he's doing and will be patient (2 more years) as our players adjust to the way Grant wants to do things.

I agree with most of what you are saying with Grant's coaching but I think if this is really his philosophy he needs to get Frankie some more touch to start "figuring it out." Not playing him and then inserting him in crucial moments looks like it is hurting his confidence more than helping.

3. Left Cunningham and Obi on the bench too long. As my dad used to say, "what are you saving him for, the Sunday picnic??" Both finished with 4 fouls. You gotta ride them until they foul out. Obi left the game at 7:22 and 55-50 and didn't come back until it was 66-56 @ 3:41. If he can't go 5:00 without fouling, well then, accept that he's going to foul out.

4. Cohill plays 13 minutes. He sits on the bench until the ~12 minute mark of each half while Davis and Crutcher play so many minutes. He needs to play more so Crutcher can get a break, it's not like Tulsa was pressing us. Why is he only playing 2 shifts per game of 5-6 minutes each? How about a couple of shorter shifts but more often, like a stoppage right before a TV timeout to extend JC's rest minutes?

5. Trey keeps getting the ball in the wrong place. He's wide open for 3's for a reason. I don't mind him taking a couple a game, but he's in the wrong place at the wrong time. Get him to the foul line area.

But in the end, a bad shooting team shot a really high percentage. We won the TO battle, the rebounding battle, the steals battle, the foul battle, and we couldn't make a 3 for anything. So we lost.

I don't know if Trey can do it but it would nice if he could develop his shot like Kyle Davis. KD wasn't a guy you wanted taking a lot or 3s or contested 3s but if you left him wide he got to the point where he'd keep the defense honest

I think Grant was not going to play Frankie at all yesterday, but his hand was forced. Most of us would have done the same, but would never admit it. The mistake, as some pointed out, was to not call a timeout after about 90 seconds of Frankie to get Cunningham or Obi back in. That would have stopped momentum and given those two an additional couple of minutes of rest. Grant doesn't get a do over, like all of our Monday quarterbacking, but then he makes the big bucks.

Frankie and Cohill will hopefully see lots of minutes in the next two weeks, and it hopefully will change them. Cohill with more minutes yesterday would have made little difference, as he is still too gun shy to shoot.

AG can get away with stealing a few minutes with Cohill but at this point I don't think he can with Frankie against better competition

That's the thing. So far, the issue has been that Cohill is nothing more than a leg rest. He's not doing much of anything to contribute, and what we need right now are people that can contribute - especially when it comes to shooting the ball. He's shown very little on that front.

The door is wide open for anyone that finds a way to score to earn as many minutes as they want. Given the way AG is rotating players, I'm guessing he's not seeing it from many non-starters in practice either.

Anyone else catch the announcer's quote about it being clear that Grant only trust his starting five plus Obi?

I think Grant was not going to play Frankie at all yesterday, but his hand was forced. Most of us would have done the same, but would never admit it. The mistake, as some pointed out, was to not call a timeout after about 90 seconds of Frankie to get Cunningham or Obi back in. That would have stopped momentum and given those two an additional couple of minutes of rest. Grant doesn't get a do over, like all of our Monday quarterbacking, but then he makes the big bucks.

Frankie and Cohill will hopefully see lots of minutes in the next two weeks, and it hopefully will change them. Cohill with more minutes yesterday would have made little difference, as he is still too gun shy to shoot.

I admit I don't know anything (or at least don't know the whole story. I did not think it made sense to redshirt Frankie to start. Assuming there would not be an injury was a mistake. Then I think the plan should have been to get Frankie a few minutes in the first half yesterday.

Don't see assuming no injury as a mistake. AG redshirted FP and always had the option of bringing him back. Injury happend so AG brought him back. If no injury occurs FP has a year to develop, and by all indications he could have used that year to advantage.

When was the last time Dayton had lost to 4 teams ranked in the top 26 in the country in the same season, while being competitive in every game with chances to win in the second half?

Yes yesterdays loss sucked, but I am not convinced Tulsa might not be a better team than many give them credit for, but we should have still won.

So looking forward, I like what I see from Grant, I like what I see from our young short benched Flyers, and I am quite confidant we will be in the top 3 in the A-10 this season, and I am really excited for next season and beyond.

Good news....... we competing with really good teams... woohoo.! We could have won all five lost games. For those who care about actually winning, maybe we should consider how we can improve rather than wish we were in a better conference, placed our school in a cooler city, had better players and were actually winning. Seems we keep testing the definition of insanity.

Maybe we should stop shooting so many threes, given we are not very good at it... got that Trey?

How about Crutcher getting a bit of bench time until he decides that passing around aimlessly is... aimless.

Let’s try running more, especially with Cohill as we aren’t very good in the half court against teams our size.

Perhaps more Obi and Josh together would improve our results. And saving their fouls for double overtime is stupid Coach!

And there are likely many other things to try, other than wait to play teams even more hapless than us. Something has to change for us to get better.Posted via Mobile Device

I'm going to support Rollo and his theory of Grant letting the players figure it out and see what he has to work with going into league play. It certainly creates teachable film and gives players a sense of ownership. Anyone remember when Temple played in our league? Chaney's teams always seemed to play about .500 ball going into league play. Then they thumped about everyone on the schedule. His players seemed to gain a season's worth of experience from that out of conference stretch going into league play.

That drove me nuts when I saw how Temple would absolutely own every team in the A10 (after mediocre pre-A10 - but a brutal schedule). But, it never surprised because Cheney would play anybody anywhere and he created warriors doing it year in and year out. I'm not a half glass empty guy. I don't recall ANY Dayton team the last 40 years starting with a schedule like this years team has faced. A couple of missed 3's go in yesterday and it's a completely different game. Had RM hit that 3 late, it would have tied the game and anything could have happened at that point. This team has a lot of heart; they don't give up. It's how you finish and that's how this team should be judged. Would you rather have a bunch of Duke type patty cakes with 2 or 3 fairly tough games and finish 11-3 and get slaughtered by a weaker than normal A10 or the opposite? If UD was 5-5 having played nobody, I'd be really concerned. Would I rather have a 7-3 or 8-2? H3ll yes; but 9-1 against 200+ RPI teams is fools gold and will not prepare this team for what's ahead. Step off the ledge please...And yes if you haven't guessed it, I'm firmly behind AG.

Temple

TEMPLE UNIVERSITY
Founded in 1884 by Dr. Russell Conwell, Temple College became Temple University in 1907. Located in Philadelphia, Temple is a comprehensive public research university with 34,000 students, 8 campuses, and 300 academic degree programs. Notable alumni include Bill Cosby and Daryl Hall. Temple's nickname is the Owls and are fellow A10 Conference members.

We need shooters. I was looking forward to see how Jordan Davis had grown in his sophomore year, and frankly, his game has diminished and it is killing us.

I agree. At a minimum, it has not advanced. Teams are not worried about his shooting, nor Landers. They focus in Crutcher. We need someone to step up, or the conference will not be as fruitful as we think.

What has to change is time. Give it another year.Posted via Mobile Device

No doubt we need to wait another year. Could not agree more. But man, it gets frustrating.

I looked up UD's motto, and it is Pro Deo et Patria. I used the google translator, it turns out it is Latin for "Wait 'till next year."

I have had conversations with friends and co-workers through the years and we always say it. Last year, it was, "Wait 'till next year these recruits will come in and make an impact, Mikesell will be healthy, the freshman will have even more strength and experience, ect, ect."

Now I'm told to wait until next year. The players will understand AG's offensive and defensive systems, the transfers will bolster the depth, ect. I just think a lot of people are tired of waiting for next year.

Good Anthony Grant show last nite.He was very honest, said we took a step back on Sunday. Outcoached and out played. Said he also still believes this team can shoot the ball. He like the big lineup that they haven't used a lot and they will keep looking at it. He said several times he was disappointed with the defense too many easy shots and missed assignments. He gushed about Rodney Chatman, very fast and a Elite defender.

Good news....... we competing with really good teams... woohoo.! We could have won all five lost games. For those who care about actually winning, maybe we should consider how we can improve rather than wish we were in a better conference, placed our school in a cooler city, had better players and were actually winning. Seems we keep testing the definition of insanity.

Maybe we should stop shooting so many threes, given we are not very good at it... got that Trey?

How about Crutcher getting a bit of bench time until he decides that passing around aimlessly is... aimless.

Let’s try running more, especially with Cohill as we aren’t very good in the half court against teams our size.

Perhaps more Obi and Josh together would improve our results. And saving their fouls for double overtime is stupid Coach!

And there are likely many other things to try, other than wait to play teams even more hapless than us. Something has to change for us to get better.Posted via Mobile Device

Let's dissect that, just for fun.

1. Our #1 and #3 most prolific shooters are both shooting 42%. Our #2 most prolific shooter is shooting 26% but that's after shooting 39% last year as a freshman. Yes, he's struggling. No, he should not just stop shooting. Those 3 account for 73% of our 3's. It's 78% of our 3's when you ignore the walkons and people like Josh who are not at all shooters. Trey, yes, should not take more than 2 shots per game from outside at most.

2. There is no one other than Crutcher. SS is not walking through that door. "Crutcher at point is the insanity of doing the same thing over and over so do something different" doesn't make you smart, because by your logic we should try the popcorn vendor. It's just dumb. We don't need to try anything different to know that Crutcher is our #1A best option, and it's not even close.

I mean, maybe we should try Westerfield at center, because, you know, try something different.

3. I'm sure the 8 total / 7 capable scholarship players would love to get out and run a lot. That will help the 3 point shooting and defense in the last 5 minutes.

4. While I think Obi needs to play more and AG left him on the bench too long against Tulsa, he is 2nd on the team in fouls, but ahead of only Cohill (and Policelli) in minutes. There might be a reason he's not playing more.

5. "Something has to change for us to get better." You might want to come to terms with the idea that we're in year 2 of rebuilding, we might just not be good enough this year, and IMO we're ahead of schedule. If Jordan Davis could hit water from a boat we would have won a couple of these close games.

BRIAN GREGORY
UD Men's Basketball Head Coach since 2004. Groomed by the likes of Judd Heathcoate and Tom Izzo at Michigan State, as well as Kevin O'Neill and others, Gregory's defensive-minded leadership has led Dayton to NCAA and multiple NIT appearances. A good recruiter, BG has elevated the athleticism of the squad in recent years and kept top area talent at home. Still looking for that breakthrough season with his own players that catapult him to the NCAA tourney. Graduated from Oakland University.

Good Anthony Grant show last nite. He gushed about Rodney Chatman, very fast and a Elite defender.

AG is a smart man. When your customers are getting restless, throw them a bone and tease something that won't fix the problem, but will make them salivate and get them back on board yearning for future success.

When was the last time Dayton had lost to 4 teams ranked in the top 26 in the country in the same season, while being competitive in every game with chances to win in the second half?

Yes yesterdays loss sucked, but I am not convinced Tulsa might not be a better team than many give them credit for, but we should have still won.

So looking forward, I like what I see from Grant, I like what I see from our young short benched Flyers, and I am quite confidant we will be in the top 3 in the A-10 this season, and I am really excited for next season and beyond.

Oh yea, use your **** Time outs in the future AG!

The only thing comparable to this run in terms of quality opponents I can think of is 2000. Maui with Maryland, UConn, Arizona and I think UC to open up the year

We have capable pieces to compete and finish out this year nicely. From the next game on we should win 75% of our games and finish with 20+ wins for the year. Anything less than that would be a disappointment. The A10 schedule is the antithesis of our ooc schedule.

But we have to play hard, stay healthy, and stay hungry. Respect our opponents. Or we will look like the Dallas Cowboys last Sunday.

One hallmark of the BG era was hockey-line substitutions. In contrast, AG rarely substitutes more than 2 guys at a time, and often only brings in 1 guy at a time. I prefer the AG approach, because it breeds continuity.

Another trademark of the BG era was the almost-constant directing from the bench. BG seemed to try to control every movement of every player all game long. Again in stark contrast, AG says very little while the ball is in play. I again prefer the AG approach because it allows the players to keep their focus on the court, and not be distracted by the yelling from the bench.

I could go on, but suffice to say I don’t believe we’re taking a long-term step backward to 2006.Posted via Mobile Device

Brian Gregory

BRIAN GREGORY
UD Men's Basketball Head Coach since 2004. Groomed by the likes of Judd Heathcoate and Tom Izzo at Michigan State, as well as Kevin O'Neill and others, Gregory's defensive-minded leadership has led Dayton to NCAA and multiple NIT appearances. A good recruiter, BG has elevated the athleticism of the squad in recent years and kept top area talent at home. Still looking for that breakthrough season with his own players that catapult him to the NCAA tourney. Graduated from Oakland University.

I could go on, but suffice to say I don’t believe we’re taking a long-term step backward to 2006.

Sorry, but I am kind of on that boat. Hope I'm wrong. I think that Grant is a bit better than BG, but I think that we are taking a very significant step back from Archie. Hope I'm wrong.

Brian Gregory

BRIAN GREGORY
UD Men's Basketball Head Coach since 2004. Groomed by the likes of Judd Heathcoate and Tom Izzo at Michigan State, as well as Kevin O'Neill and others, Gregory's defensive-minded leadership has led Dayton to NCAA and multiple NIT appearances. A good recruiter, BG has elevated the athleticism of the squad in recent years and kept top area talent at home. Still looking for that breakthrough season with his own players that catapult him to the NCAA tourney. Graduated from Oakland University.

One hallmark of the BG era was hockey-line substitutions. In contrast, AG rarely substitutes more than 2 guys at a time, and often only brings in 1 guy at a time. I prefer the AG approach, because it breeds continuity.

Another trademark of the BG era was the almost-constant directing from the bench. BG seemed to try to control every movement of every player all game long. Again in stark contrast, AG says very little while the ball is in play. I again prefer the AG approach because it allows the players to keep their focus on the court, and not be distracted by the yelling from the bench.

I could go on, but suffice to say I don’t believe we’re taking a long-term step backward to 2006.Posted via Mobile Device

Don't necessarily disagree but it's hard to have hockey line subs when you only have 7-8 players available.

Brian Gregory

BRIAN GREGORY
UD Men's Basketball Head Coach since 2004. Groomed by the likes of Judd Heathcoate and Tom Izzo at Michigan State, as well as Kevin O'Neill and others, Gregory's defensive-minded leadership has led Dayton to NCAA and multiple NIT appearances. A good recruiter, BG has elevated the athleticism of the squad in recent years and kept top area talent at home. Still looking for that breakthrough season with his own players that catapult him to the NCAA tourney. Graduated from Oakland University.

Sorry, but I am kind of on that boat. Hope I'm wrong. I think that Grant is a bit better than BG, but I think that we are taking a very significant step back from Archie. Hope I'm wrong.

That’s funny because i think long term (as long as AG is here as the coach) we are taking a significant step forward. I don’t think AM is any better of an X/O guy than AG. AM could be embarrassing to watch sometimes and he hasn’t changed that trait since heading west. I like the composure i see from AG and typically that translates into a good players coach since the players don’t get scolded for every mistake. I feel like AG isn’t here to put his name on the map and parlay it into a “better” job. Anybody who had visions that the program wouldn’t go through a few years of growing/transitional pains isn’t being realistic or fair. Don’t believe that? Look at X down south sitting at 7-5; when was the last time you saw that to start a season?Posted via Mobile Device

The most important game of the year is tonight. Then it's the next one. And the next one. WE can fantasize about A10 Championships, but the players dare not. We have good upside and we better bottle it now.

omg. I would take back Brian Gregory in a nano-second !! (this from his most brutal critic at end)

Brian Gregory

BRIAN GREGORY
UD Men's Basketball Head Coach since 2004. Groomed by the likes of Judd Heathcoate and Tom Izzo at Michigan State, as well as Kevin O'Neill and others, Gregory's defensive-minded leadership has led Dayton to NCAA and multiple NIT appearances. A good recruiter, BG has elevated the athleticism of the squad in recent years and kept top area talent at home. Still looking for that breakthrough season with his own players that catapult him to the NCAA tourney. Graduated from Oakland University.

X and O guys don't necessarily correlate one-for-one with wins and success. Archie is finding recruiting to Indiana has it's advantages. Talent and size can take over for the lack of X/O acumen in some cases. Great talent can make a coach look very smart. Calipari admitted to such a few weeks ago.

And Archie has the Hoosiers projected to finish at rpi #22, which is probably good for a 5? or 6? seed I guess.

Don't be surprised to possibly see Archie in the Sweet 16 or better this year.

FWIW, Crean went 18-16 in his last year at IU, but they did make the NIT.

If you love AM at IU, great. You’re comparing oranges to apples in terms of the relative easiness AM enjoys at IU- a bar set extremely high by RMK and still continues to this day (aka...recruiting karma-he really doesn’t have to try very hard as historically IU has been successful).Lets not forget AM went 14-17 his second year and was on the hot seat by the majority here on this board in the middle of the third season when things turned around. I am very happy with what AG has done, the recruiting of high level individuals (moral character) and his coaching. We will have to agree to disagree.Posted via Mobile Device

omg. I would take back Brian Gregory in a nano-second !! (this from his most brutal critic at end)

If BG was brought back to the University Development office, I’d take him back in a nanosecond too. But as a coach? No thanks.

The guy was a great representative of the university, and by all accounts a great guy. And nearly every player who came here during his tenure and stayed all 4 years seems to be a good citizen and university representative. But I saw enough weave offense and hockey line substitutions, and heard enough “we just need to get better at what we do” interviews in 8 years to last me a lifetime. He had hit his ceiling of success here, and 1 NCAA appearance in his last 7 years here isn’t good enough for a program that dedicates the kind of resources to men’s basketball that UD does.

A great guy, but an average-at-best Head Coach.Posted via Mobile Device

Brian Gregory

BRIAN GREGORY
UD Men's Basketball Head Coach since 2004. Groomed by the likes of Judd Heathcoate and Tom Izzo at Michigan State, as well as Kevin O'Neill and others, Gregory's defensive-minded leadership has led Dayton to NCAA and multiple NIT appearances. A good recruiter, BG has elevated the athleticism of the squad in recent years and kept top area talent at home. Still looking for that breakthrough season with his own players that catapult him to the NCAA tourney. Graduated from Oakland University.

A10 All Rookie Team. Preseason 2008 2nd Team All A10. Member of the UD Flight Club with a 40+ inch vertical leap. Consensus Top-75 national recruit. Uncle is former Flyer J.D. Grigsby. Nickname is Top Flyght.

CAREER STATS
2007-08 10.4ppg 5.7rpg

London Warren

LONDON WARREN
6-0 185lb Junior
Raines, HS | Jacksonville FL

Nicknamed the "Jacksonville Jet", London Warren is perhaps UD's quickest player baseline to baseline. Leader in steals defensively, he likes to push tempo on offense. Working on his shot and confidence at the charity stripe.

2007-08 | 4.3ppg 2.9rpg2006-07 | 2.4ppg 1.7rpg

Brian Gregory

BRIAN GREGORY
UD Men's Basketball Head Coach since 2004. Groomed by the likes of Judd Heathcoate and Tom Izzo at Michigan State, as well as Kevin O'Neill and others, Gregory's defensive-minded leadership has led Dayton to NCAA and multiple NIT appearances. A good recruiter, BG has elevated the athleticism of the squad in recent years and kept top area talent at home. Still looking for that breakthrough season with his own players that catapult him to the NCAA tourney. Graduated from Oakland University.

Brian Gregory has won one NCAAT game in 15 years as a head coach. He hasn't thrived at anything.

Brian Gregory

BRIAN GREGORY
UD Men's Basketball Head Coach since 2004. Groomed by the likes of Judd Heathcoate and Tom Izzo at Michigan State, as well as Kevin O'Neill and others, Gregory's defensive-minded leadership has led Dayton to NCAA and multiple NIT appearances. A good recruiter, BG has elevated the athleticism of the squad in recent years and kept top area talent at home. Still looking for that breakthrough season with his own players that catapult him to the NCAA tourney. Graduated from Oakland University.

Brian Gregory has won one NCAAT game in 15 years as a head coach. He hasn't thrived at anything.

Which is one more than Oliver Purnell won in 27 years as a head coach. And BG did win UD's first NCAAT game in almost 20 years. There's something to be said for that even though he didn't take us where we wanted to go.

X and O guys don't necessarily correlate one-for-one with wins and success. Archie is finding recruiting to Indiana has it's advantages. Talent and size can take over for the lack of X/O acumen in some cases. Great talent can make a coach look very smart. Calipari admitted to such a few weeks ago.

Originally Posted by longtimefan67

If you love AM at IU, great. You’re comparing oranges to apples in terms of the relative easiness AM enjoys at IU- a bar set extremely high by RMK and still continues to this day (aka...recruiting karma-he really doesn’t have to try very hard as historically IU has been successful).Lets not forget AM went 14-17 his second year and was on the hot seat by the majority here on this board in the middle of the third season when things turned around. I am very happy with what AG has done, the recruiting of high level individuals (moral character) and his coaching. We will have to agree to disagree.Posted via Mobile Device

I am sensing some lingering bitterness over Archie leaving, which is understandable given the things that Archie said about loving it here when he was here.

But, that bitterness should not stop you from giving the man his due. He is a great coach, hands down.

If it was so easy to win at IU, then Crean and Mike Davis would not have been fired, and Kelvin Sampson would not have had to resort to cheating.

I agree that none of AG's players have been in any trouble so far, which is a great thing.

Archie is projected to get a 5 seed this year right now, which is already 2 spots better than he got here.

People keep saying that we just need to win more games in order to get a better seed. Give me a friggin' break. Archie won 23, 25, 25, and 24 games in his last 4 years, but all we got was a 7 seed.

We went 10-6, 13-5, 14-4, and 15-3 in the A10.

What else do you want the guy to do? Go 16-2 or 17-1 every year?

I honestly don't blame him for leaving. The UD administration refuses to schedule up and go to a 15/15 schedule. I think Archie realized that he was being handcuffed. How in the world can we ever expect to do better than a 7 seed?

We went 14-4 and won 25 games, and all we got was a 7 seed.

The UD administration is not serious about trying to win a national championship. If they were then at least once over the last 20 years they would have scheduled up. They are just content to rake in the money every year from all these d*mn buy games.

I am sensing some lingering bitterness over Archie leaving, which is understandable given the things that Archie said about loving it here when he was here.

But, that bitterness should not stop you from giving the man his due. He is a great coach, hands down.

If it was so easy to win at IU, then Crean and Mike Davis would not have been fired, and Kelvin Sampson would not have had to resort to cheating.

I agree that none of AG's players have been in any trouble so far, which is a great thing.

Archie came in here on a mission to get himself to the next level. In doing that, he got the Flyers to a place they had not been in a long time and we really enjoyed that. However, Archie got to that next level but he did not leave anything behind in terms of raising the program. We are where we have been for the last 25-30 years. If I have any resentment it is that so much money was thrown at him in hopes that he would stay and raise the level of UD basketball. He was going to get his when he moved on. His $s at UD should have been tied to a longer term success. It wasn't my money so I guess I really shouldn't care.

Archie is projected to get a 5 seed this year right now, which is already 2 spots better than he got here.

People keep saying that we just need to win more games in order to get a better seed. Give me a friggin' break. Archie won 23, 25, 25, and 24 games in his last 4 years, but all we got was a 7 seed.

We went 10-6, 13-5, 14-4, and 15-3 in the A10.

What else do you want the guy to do? Go 16-2 or 17-1 every year?

I honestly don't blame him for leaving. The UD administration refuses to schedule up and go to a 15/15 schedule. I think Archie realized that he was being handcuffed. How in the world can we ever expect to do better than a 7 seed?

We went 14-4 and won 25 games, and all we got was a 7 seed.

The UD administration is not serious about trying to win a national championship. If they were then at least once over the last 20 years they would have scheduled up. They are just content to rake in the money every year from all these d*mn buy games.

I am sensing some lingering bitterness over Archie leaving, which is understandable given the things that Archie said about loving it here when he was here.

But, that bitterness should not stop you from giving the man his due. He is a great coach, hands down.

If it was so easy to win at IU, then Crean and Mike Davis would not have been fired, and Kelvin Sampson would not have had to resort to cheating.

I agree that none of AG's players have been in any trouble so far, which is a great thing.

I'll agree Archie accomplished personal goals, was driven, got UD "to where it hadn't been in a long time" and was a very good coach. But as someone else mentioned,...leaving was in his DNA. 2 very good years where we had a final 8 and 2 wins the next year almost making the sweet 16. The last 2 years...a first round loss- and uninspired ones at that. Still, I'll take it. But Arch knew when the time was right to move on and he did it in a heartbeat. And he didn't leave us much.

No coach has come close to the accomplishments that RMK achieved at IU and likely none ever will. Don't forget, Mike Davis got IU to the NCAA Championship game one year while Crean was largely successful as well after a long rebuild; I think both of those guys got IU to the Dance at least 4 years while they were there. But IU is like UK in terms of expectations; NCAA appearances aren't enough, they want National Championships. You can thank coach RMK for that expectation. So If AM takes IU to the promised land he'll be fine (not a final 4, a National Championship). But don't think for a second he can write himself a 30 year contract till the day he retires, unless he achieves the previous sentence.

I wanted coach Grant when BG left. I'm glad he was given the opportunity when AM moved on and I think in the end we'll all be very happy. What I'm struggling here with is why aren't you letting AM go? Follow him at IU if you really like him but the next chapter of UD basketball is now, not 2014. If AG fails, then you can gloat all you want about the "wrong" choice. I keep wondering why it appears you want AG to fail? As a UD FAN, shouldn't you be at least wanting AG to succeed? BTW, this season isn't over...