I am new here and looking into purchasing a boat in the next few weeks. I have a few questions and would appreciate your help ! This board is fantastic !!! Great info... It will be my first tow boat and I have several questions - I can't afford a mistake !! ....

1. should i wait for an 04, or buy an 03 at a bit of a lower price?

2. I was leaning to a VLX --- how do you feel about this compared to a nautique?

3. in the malibu line - is the VLX a better boat than the larger LSV... or is the LSV just bigger? I was leaning towards a VLX, but maybe the increased space would be nice.

4. If the VLX is their showcase wakesetter - why is it the only boat that does not have a wedge as standard equipment.

5. Do you recommend the premium sound systems from the manufacturers, or should I get an after market cutom job instead?

2) VLX and Natiques are both a great boat. I think there are 3 major differences. A) interior layout/room (swivel chair, clamshell, wrap around seating) B)wake VLX= more rampy wake SAN= more vert wake C)Warranty SAN=5 year complete

3)for 03 vlx and LSV very different wake. 04 lsv is reported to be better for boarding than 03 lsv

4) I don't know

5) No, do the system yourself or pay a stereo shop that has experience with boats. Have your boat dealer include speaker holes, but no speakers. People have reported the JBL system in the VLX is not so good. I think 03's have them.

How does the dealer situation affect your buying? It can make a big difference in your overall happiness.

I know I can get the 03 VLX about 15% off - my local Nautique dealer is totally out of 03's.

I have dealers for both within 1 mile of eachother - so dealer support is not an issue - although I will say the Nautique dealer has quite an attitude problem while the Malibu dealer cant seem to do enough for you.

Can I buy a model with a high end package without the stereo and just holes? I think if I buy a combined package (which I presume is better economically), the stereo comes with it. In any case - if I buy an 03 Malibu - I think the stereos are all installed on the boats he has.

One more question -n the VLX in stock is all red. It looks incredibly hot - but I have been told red fades very badly. The dealer said there is a 10 year guarantee on finish and they will buff it out if it fades. Does this work - or should I be concerned about this? I plan to keep the boat on a lake - not in a garage - so while it will have a cover, the sides will be exposed to sun all summer.

I have never ordered a new boat. I would think that you could order it how you wanted.

As far as red fading. Do you mean red gelcoat on the fiberglass or red vinyl interior? Either way, if you take good care I don't think fading will be an issue at all. My old i/o had lots of red interior and exterior. I got it from my brother in law who barely used it much less took care of it for 5 years. It was kept outdoors, but covered. I took decent care of it and after having it for 4 years, the red still looked great.

Use products like 3M 303 to be extra safe.

My current boat, an 02 VLX, has lots of red exterior. I am not concerned at all about fading.

Malibu has a lifetime hull warranty, but I am not sure how it covers fading/finish. They definately can buff it out..there is a post somewhere here on wakeworld where someone buffs out an old boat, the red gelcoat looked brand new!

Len, you said it all when you said the Nautique dealer has an attitude problem.

I love my Nautique and my dealer has treated me well and made right on some initial service related issues I had with them. Here in our area the Bu dealer has a pretty bad reputation and I was not impressed when I talked to them.

If I were you and had to choose between a VLX and a SAN, I would take the dealer experience and put it right up at the top of my decision making reasons. Both are great boats and are quality built. The 5 year warranty by CC is a great selling point but if your dealer is a PITA everytime you have to take it in then that warranty is small consolation.

If your looking for the absolute best built boat with the easiest wake to make pro sized then the SAN may be your better choice. But a properly weighted VLX backed up by a reputable dealer is a tough act to beat.

So far my 4 year old red Nautique has not faded one bit. I treat it regularly with 303 Protectant and it has held up just fine. Should be the same for the Bu.

If you order your boat you can get it with no stereo but it sounds like you are getting what ever is left on the dealer floor so you have little choice. The new VLX looks much better with the new windsheild + a few other things so maybe ordering an 04 the way you want is the thing to do, Your color, your options, etc. Mine has a wedge and if I were to do it again I would leave it off, The boat drives like a pig with it in my opinion. The main reason we did not go with the SAN was interior space, but with you having a dock to go from you may not be as concerned about that as we were. We spend all day on the water in some instances and the VLX is more roomy for sure.

Can someone explain about the boat being a pig with the wedge?? Do you mean slow? cumbersome? etc...

And for storage - this is important to me - the boat will be docked at a lake - but I do not live there, so if i cannot store everything in the boat I will have to constantly drag it between my home and the lake.

I too have an 02 VLX and i am totally satified with everything about the boat. I think that one reason that the wedge is not standard on the VLX is because most people who are heavy into wakeboarding usually weight their boat rather than use the wedge in combination with weight, this is only my opinion mind you.

Len, where are you? The 5 year Warranty is a great thing on the SAN. CC has Distribution centers that will handle all of your warranty issues if you don't like the dealer. West Coast CC is in my area and they are great to deal with.

My view on the wedge from a drivers point is that it makes the boat wander and not steer well. We use the MLS(factory) and sacks in the rear lockers and one under the bow filler cushion when my son is lookig to go big. Most of the time though we just use the MLS.

After reading all the replys and conidering what I have ridden behind here is my advice: If you are a ripper and can throw mobes ohhs and other bad ask tricks super air is your answer no questions asked. If you are a beginner to intermediate level rider VLX is your boat. I will explain why: Super air is the best wake out there when weighted properly and as an advanced rider you should be concerned with wake performance as your number one priority. The problem with the super air for beginner to intermediate riders is that the wake is less forgiving and the boat lacks storage. The VLX is a exelent boat for all levels of riders and has the best wake versitily out of all boats out there. Tons of storage and room and world class wakes. If choosing between 2003 vs 2004 then buy a 2003 super air if you choose super air because there are no major changes for the super air except for an uglier tower. but if getting a VLX get the 04 because of the new center hard tank for ballast and the new postless windshield and telescoping ski pylon. For me I am an intermeidate to advanced rider and I ordered a 04 VLX. No matter which boat you choose you will be happy with both they are both exelent boats. Good luck buying and I hope I helped you out.

David, I don't know man, I ride behind a VLX and am throwing "bad ask tricks" So is Brian Grubb, Gerry Nunn, and Darin Shapiro. I'm not debating the fact that Nautique is a great boat, but I have not been impressed with the wakes of the Natique. I would love to ride behind one of these properly weighted boats. But the handfull of Natiques I have rode behind just didn't do anything for me. The wake was steep which is fine but the top 1/3 of it was really soft and I kept busting through it. So it felt like it was much smaller. Just my .02cents. One of the coolest things Malibu has going for it is www.malibuboatowners.com it is a site with a lot of good info and people, check it out before you buy a natique. Actually here is a discussion of a bunch of Malibu owners talking about the 04 Natiques...

I have a '03 SAN, which I like a lot. Having seen some of the teasers for the '04, I haven't seen anything that would make me trade, even if I could trade straight across with no cost!

For the Nautique, I would definately go with the "Team Edition" so you can get the ballast tanks, Perfect Pass, and other neat features.

The speakers that they put in the '03 SANTE are passable, but the non "upgraded" versions are not worth having. The sub is a joke, however. If you are ordering items piecemeal, skip the stereo and install one yourself.

As for storing stuff in the boat, the SAN does have locking storage. If you get the latches adjusted properly they will keep your friends out. With the ballast tanks taking up most of the space you will not be able to stow your wakeboards in the lockers.

Rod, not sure what you are talking about?? You can store your boards in the rear lockers. I keep my Prodigy 140 w/XXL Bindings along with 3-4 life jackets and my wifes 134 on the other side with another 3-4 life jackets.

Here is my take on 03 vs. 04. Your boat prob. takes a depr. hit of about $4k the first year. If you can get an 03 for $4k less than the 04, do it, if not, get the 04 exactly how you like it, you will be ahead. I personally would do the 04.

Tony I am not saying that the VLX is better or worse wake I am just saying that most adanced riders prefer the superair to the VLX. But what it comes down to is personal preferance. Both boats throw world class wakes and any move that has ever been invented can be done behind both boats. And for me I like both wakes a ton its just that I cant justify spending more money for less room and a little bit better wake performance.

thanks again to everyone out here who has replied to this thread - the information has been fantastic !!! I guess what I am planning to do now is wait a couple of weeks to see if I can get any hard views on the new 04 LSV. It seems that the VLX is a clear winner for me over the old LSV's - but the 04 LSV appears to have significant changes which may make it greatly improved. Since it will be out and reviewed by others here within weeks I am sure - I think its a mistake to rush in and purchase a boat now and not wait to see about this new development.

On another note - I was impressed with the fact that I received an email from CC asking me about my post here and offering to help and answer any questions that I may have. Although the CC dealer in my area does not excite me - it certainly is the sign of a great company that they contacted me ! I thought I would add that note for those here who own CC's !

As far as the wakes behind a VLX and a Super Air, they are both great, but very different. Super Air is steep, VLX is rampy. Pick your fancy. The one thing I can say is that the VLX can get a pretty steep wake with the wedge and ballast, and the wake is really nice. The old wedge wasn't nearly as good, but the new wedge is pretty killer. If you like a steep wake, the Super Air is awesome, not doubt about it. P.S. 22V wake is very similar to the Super Air (I ride behind both often).

David, I'm not trying to beat a dead horse here or anything, but I am kinda confused as to how you justify or back up your statement about "most advanced riders prefer the superair to the VLX". Again I know both boats have the potential for a great wake, I just wonder if there was a poll done on the top pro riders or something that I missed, where they hands down chose the superair. Thanks, Tony

You keep asking about the LSV boat. I think why most people have the VLX is because it as the SV23 hull, and the LSV has the SV23 Diamond hull (at least that is how I understand it). The diamond hulls are more set for waterskiing, but are still OK for boarding. There is an article over on malibuboatowners.com that describes all of this. I don't know anything about the '04 models though.

I like both of these wakes, however, they are different in all the ways everyone has described. I love the SAN wake and like it the best because I ride behind it all the time. It is a wake that takes some getting used to.

If I owned a Malibu then I am sure that I would like that wake the best (get what I'm saying?).

I can tell you that when I was purchasing a boat it came down to these two boats. I really like both boats but it came down to my dealer choices and the overall "feel" of the boats. The SAN (IMO) has the most solid ride and plush feel which combine to make an amazing boat!

I think this topic has been well rehearsed with alot of the same conclusions. I believe that the ultimate conclusion, however, is the fact that both Malibu and Correct Craft owners feel that they own one of the best boats made. This is certainly testament to the caliber of boat you are about to purchase.

Tim, I was wondering if the wedge affected that. I'm a pretty good size boy (not your typical rider ) and I have a 2000 VLX without the wedge and there is a big difference between it and the 03 with the wedge deployed as far as wake wash is concerned

I agree with everything that David posted above, including the comments about rider preference. That is not to take anything away from the Malibu and is based on my personal experience with 10 or 12 riders that have spent time behind both boats. Comparing stock ballast SAN to stock ballast and wedge in the Malibu is very very different to comparing both boats weighted. The SAN wake gets more agressive while the Malibu wake gets bigger. More technical riders seem to like the SAN. That certainly doesn't mean everyone will but I don't think the pros are a very good example of "preference" since they have endorsement deals.

That being said, the stock Malibu wake is very very forgiving compared to the SAN and the wedge definitely helps with weight distribution.

Some more details on the two wakes (stock ballast vs stock ballast and wedge).

The SAN wake is steeper and is very very sensitive to left-right weight distribution. Because it is steeper, the sweet spot for landing on the second wake is smaller (the steepness can be slightly changed based on front to rear weight distribution). Just outside the wake, the trough on the SAN is deeper and rather uncomfortable to land in. The trough outside the Malibu wake smaller, a bit wider and not bad to land in. Weighting the SAN makes the trough a little deeper and REALLY uncomfortable to land in. Both wakes are solid with the SAN having a lip on top and the malibu being more rounded. Some people have said the top of the malibu wake is softer to land on, but I think it more of a surface area issue than actual firmness. Both wakes are great to ride behind and any rider that says one wake limits their ability compared to the other needs to take a closer look at their technique.

Although I primarily ride behind my SAN (and love it), the best set I've had this season was behind a Malibu. If I was looking for a new boat today, it would be between the SAN and Malibu and a difficult decision.

I heard that for 04 you guys will be getting a key chain again... but not for the ignition! In an attemp to lower (maintain) Natique prices they removed the electronic hatch, put manual lock and keys back in. So now that you don't have a ignition key you will still have to buy a floatie for your locker key!

Before you spend all that money go look at centurions new avalanche i've been riding beind it and the cyclone they are badass boats for a really good price, weighted right either of those boats have a median wake between the SAN and the VLX and it has alot more room then both of those boats, they also have an all fiberglass hull with a lifetime warranty and let me tell you if you ever encounter rough water you will never find a better competition boat for rough water if you have a dealer near you go at least check out the avalanche it is worth looking at centurions have come a long way!!!

I have to agree with Bennett, I have owned both and for my style the SAN just didn't work. Both are really great boats and you will find a lot of people who love the SAN but hate the vlx so try em and choose. I get a new boat every year since i use it to teach and love my BU. I just added extra ballast for the first time and it really helps. I am now running about 1800 pounds not including the wedge and the wake amazes me. I have boarded behind a lot of boats and haven't found one i like more (although supras throw a nice wake that isn't as wide which i did like). I am going to drop the wedge next time I am out to see how it feels with the added weight.

The dealer equation is hugs, as mentioned before, it will make or break your boat ownership experience. I looked at, drove, and have ridden behind the SAN, I bought the VLX. I suck as a rider, but I have seen people throw some decent trick off of stock mls and wedge. As far as driving like a pig with the wedge down, I just don't see or feel it, and I grew up driving DD's.

i just switched from CC to malibu vlx 04. a good part was price. I also dig the versatility of the wedge and the ballast. And then there was the dealer.

i bet the wake is not going to be holding you back either way you go. shapiro throws double flips behind his vlx, and dallas friday is going bigger and better behind hers than i'll ever get.

the other thing is we could not get a good surf wake behind the SAN after many tries. plus it seems to suck exhaust back into the boat pretty bad.

However, i haven't gotten my wedge yet from the dealer and i don't have a great surf wake yet either. i'm going to add more weight tonight to see what happens. i've tried 612 lead, ballast, and a 450lb sack and 5 people and it was just OK.

btw, my 04 has a sack in the middle, but they are supposed to switch to the tank.

Dave, Any pics of your new VLX? What's the chance of me taggin along for a set on Lake Samm sometime???? I have yet to drive or ride behind one? As of last week the dealer was still waiting for 2 new boats. (both already sold)

i decided on the installer my dealer recommended because he has experience with boats and the malibu layout. imho it's totally hit or miss with stereo installer dudes. Boats are notorious for bad grounds and weird issues you don't see in a car.

btw, i will have lights and speakers on that tower ASAP. Although i'm not sure i need the tower speakers now.

Just to add my grip- I think everyone has valid points on this subject- i picked up a 03 SANTE a few months ago and have ridden behind a bu' and a tige. Both have huge rampy wakes, but for a bigger guy like myself, 200 lbs. the steepness of the CC helps get me in the air. Storage isnt a concern for me, but styling is, ehich typically is a matter of preference. I'd have to go with Malibu and CC for that since I don't really dig on the shape of anything else. Bottom line is it all comes down to whats important to you. For me, I just love being out on the lake.......