by VvGHOSTvV on Mon Aug 05, 2013 5:46 pm ([msg=76763]see How to start being a hacker, IMHO![/msg])

In my honest opinion you should start with by getting a Linux system. Get use to how linux operates and learn the commands and how a shell works. After you get use to everything get BackTrack5. It comes built in with a lot of helpful "pentesting" tools that are very useful. Learn how the tools work, what they do, ect. Take time to not just USE the tools, but actually LEARN from them. You may also want to look into getting a network adapter with packet injection. Toy around with the free tools and get to know what hacking is all about. That is how to start being a hacker, IMHO!

by DrRoach on Wed Aug 21, 2013 8:10 pm ([msg=76943]see Re: How to start being a hacker, IMHO![/msg])

VvGHOSTvV wrote:In my honest opinion you should start with by getting a Linux system. Get use to how linux operates and learn the commands and how a shell works. After you get use to everything get BackTrack5. It comes built in with a lot of helpful "pentesting" tools that are very useful. Learn how the tools work, what they do, ect. Take time to not just USE the tools, but actually LEARN from them. You may also want to look into getting a network adapter with packet injection. Toy around with the free tools and get to know what hacking is all about. That is how to start being a hacker, IMHO!

To be honest I wouldn't recommend this at all. For beginners the first thing that they should focus on should be HTML CSS and javascript if you ask me. Also, this is just my personal opinion though because I'm odd like this, but if you really want to know what's going on I wouldn't use backtrack or anything like that when you're learning because you can fall into the trap of just relying on the tools and never bothering to learn about what's going on or how it's working

by Goatboy on Thu Aug 22, 2013 7:28 am ([msg=76961]see Re: How to start being a hacker, IMHO![/msg])

DrRoach wrote:To be honest I wouldn't recommend this at all. For beginners the first thing that they should focus on should be HTML CSS and javascript if you ask me. Also, this is just my personal opinion though because I'm odd like this

Everyone seems to have this idea that hacking means breaking into websites. Why not start with C? Or Ruby? Or skip programming and read about filesystems? Or Linux? Since hacking is such an ambiguous thing, there's really no clear route to take. If you wanna focus on web security, go for the good server-side languages. For applications, go for C/C++. For electronics, Arduino.

DrRoach wrote:but if you really want to know what's going on I wouldn't use backtrack or anything like that when you're learning because you can fall into the trap of just relying on the tools and never bothering to learn about what's going on or how it's working

I somewhat agree. I have always said it's better to know how to do something manually before you take shortcuts, but at the same time it sometimes helps to see the end result big picture, and then dig deeper to see how it works.

by centip3de on Sun Aug 25, 2013 11:57 am ([msg=77024]see Re: How to start being a hacker, IMHO![/msg])

Goatboy wrote:Everyone seems to have this idea that hacking means breaking into websites. Why not start with C? Or Ruby? Or skip programming and read about filesystems? Or Linux? Since hacking is such an ambiguous thing, there's really no clear route to take. If you wanna focus on web security, go for the good server-side languages. For applications, go for C/C++. For electronics, Arduino.

Because it usually does. Normally people have no idea about local security and are only concerned with pwning some s17es. Beyond the scope of that, for people who have never programmed before, C would be a terrible starting place. Alright, well, not terrible, but in this day and age it sure as hell wouldn't be doing them any favor. Starting in HTML gives people the basic idea and ideology behind programming, without getting into the complexities of actually programming. Moving to Python after learning HTML is not only significantly easier, but can also allow you to do all the local based exploitation you want, without the difficulties that come with C.

Programming today is a race between software engineers striving to build bigger and better idiot-proof programs, and the Universe trying to produce bigger and better idiots. So far, the Universe is winning. -Rick Cook

by pretentious on Tue Aug 27, 2013 1:37 am ([msg=77057]see Re: How to start being a hacker, IMHO![/msg])

centip3de wrote:C would be a terrible starting place. Alright, well, not terrible, but in this day and age it sure as hell wouldn't be doing them any favor.

Gonna throw something a lecturer said in here, though badly paraphrased."ten years ago, if you kind of knew C, you would be offered a job then and there. Not anymore"This is in the context of employment, not learning about information security, but your comment reminded me of it.C is no doubt still a relivant language but I don't think newbies really need to torture themselves when life is a lot easier and idiot proof now

by -Ninjex- on Tue Aug 27, 2013 8:23 am ([msg=77064]see Re: How to start being a hacker, IMHO![/msg])

First off, I know I don't have much programming experience, but my small thoughts below:

I would recommend everyone to learn C/C++. However, I probably wouldn't recommend it as a starting language. I am personally the type of person who likes to walk around in pampers with a binky in my mouth before I hop up in a burpee and full out sprint. Not saying that C/C++ is overly complex, but to someone that is just starting out with no prior experience, it may seem overwhelming to them. Once that happens, they then become discouraged and give up on programming in general. However, they may also choose to stick it out and continue learning, but they will probably feel more beat than a meat tenderizer.

Now, another reason it's hard to just tell someone where they should start, is because... well, you don't know what they want to do. You tell someone to go learn C/C++, not knowing that what they really had in mind about programming was creating websites. With that being said, the choice partially needs to come from what they plan on doing. If they want to do some local programming, there are many other languages that someone could pick up that are far easier to read and write, opposed to C. I would recommend the user to learn those languages before trying to get their hands in the world of C.

For local programming I would recommend something like Python or even Ruby. For web development, PHP/JavaScript of course. Although learning markup languages like HTML can also prove helpful, since they basically help build up the ideology behind programming without diving someone in head over heels.

I have also for the last two days took up a little challenge upon myself to learn functional programming, and might I say it's amazing. Haskell just has this way of doing things I would have never had thought possible in such a concise way. Functional programming itself is a world of wonders for me, and it's been interesting. I would recommend people to try and pick it up sometime as well.

by Goatboy on Tue Aug 27, 2013 11:27 am ([msg=77068]see Re: How to start being a hacker, IMHO![/msg])

-Ninjex- wrote:I am personally the type of person who likes to walk around in pampers with a binky in my mouth

I will quote you on this. It will be out of context. People will wonder.

On topic: The language you learn is not nearly as important as the mindset you develop from it. I personally started out in BASIC way back in middle school on the TI-83+ calculator. Now while it couldn't do a lot, it was my first introduction into programming. It did, however, give me a good understanding of why GOTO is generally not the best tool for the job. I probably couldn't write a simple hangman game anymore, but I remember the lessons it taught me.

by Gill_Sans on Tue Aug 27, 2013 11:13 pm ([msg=77080]see Re: How to start being a hacker, IMHO![/msg])

On the "start with C/C++ or not" topic,

My first language was C++, and my personal experience has been quite positive. Having a solid foundation in the language, it has been very easy to approach others that are similar. Having had to worry about boundary checking, pointers, and c-strings, I was able to work in Python and understand all of things that I wasn't having to do. By learning C++, I didn't learn all the other similar languages, but I learned how to approach them. Right now I am working in assembly language and makes a lot of sense since the concepts are ones that am familiar with. My intention is not to assert that this way is at all the "right" way, as I do not believe there to be a "right" way in this, but it is an approach worth considering.

Note, I do believe that a person may as well learn HTML first, since having an understanding of it is basic to understanding the web, but I'm not really counting that as a language. It is just something you learn.

by Shade_of_Gray on Sun Sep 01, 2013 5:27 pm ([msg=77159]see Re: How to start being a hacker, IMHO![/msg])

I dabbled in BASIC, C, Java, PHP, etc. before landing a job that had me focusing on web app security. I'd venture to say it would be entirely possible to build a successful career out of web app security with only enough Linux experience to handle routine server management tasks. And that's assuming your target application isn't running on Windows.

Of course, web app security is only one aspect of computer security, and I personally have no intention of stopping there. =) There's a lot to learn, and I want to know at least a bit about it all, lol.