DodgerLaw

7) Bill, who was undoubtedly a bad president which will become clearer with the passage of time

Of all your bad points, this is the worst. Stop listening to talk radio just to reinforce your already held beliefs and then blabing them on this board. You said nine things and did not give actual evidence for any of them. Even if what you say is true, the only people who are going to listen are people who already believe this deep in their soul because you don't give anyone any new information to think about.

PS Bill was a great president,

lowest unemp. in thirty years, including blacks and hispanic rates,first consecutive balanced budgets in foreverlowest welfare rolls in thirty yearsAdvanced workers rights across the board (Family Leave Act, etc.)Improved trade throughout AsiaGreatest Econ. growth in everHuge for the environment, most protected land in over 50 yearsReduced the size of the government

The list goes on, the only mark against him is a personal flaw and maybe a couple bad decisions here and there (Waco comes to mind), but he never broke the law (Ken Starr sure did) as many claim and he could have done a lot more with a more compromising congress (they were rightly afraid of what he and a few of the other dems could accomplish)

It's too bad the Dem party has gone to sh*t with too many radicals trying their best to make large portions of Americans feel closer to the millionaires the republican party represents than average Americans by ostracizing Christians and rural whites as outside of their party instead of part of it.

PSS Hill will not be president, mostly because she is a she.

I'll leave the rebuttal to Billy Boy out. I've stated the reasons why history will frown on him many times before.

I didn't give evidence because I wasn't trying to prove anything. 3Peat asked me why the thought of Hillary as president horrifies me. I answered his question.

Try to read the thread in context. The morons are out in force these last 12 hours.

skaiserbrown

hillary will face a really rough primary challenge since she's running to the center in order to prove she's not hillary v '94. hell, have any of you paid any attention to her career in the senate? the woman has not only been a rock solid senator for the people of new york, but she's a bigger hawk than goddamn lindsey graham.

which will hurt her in '08 when clark or feingold mounts a charge from the left and she is suddenly stuck as the moderate candidate in a highly charged primary.

she's still the favorite to get the dem nomination in '08, and i'd say she's the favorite to win overall, but it ain't no slam dunk.

as a guy who works on democratic campaigns i've got to say she's going to have some serious issues with her base, and that's as someone who generally likes her.

lowest unemp. in thirty years, including blacks and hispanic rates,first consecutive balanced budgets in foreverlowest welfare rolls in thirty yearsAdvanced workers rights across the board (Family Leave Act, etc.)Improved trade throughout AsiaGreatest Econ. growth in everHuge for the environment, most protected land in over 50 yearsReduced the size of the government

i'm bored at work, so i'm going to argue with you on some of these points. first of all, welfare, balanced budgets, and reduced size of governments probably wouldn't have happened were it not for the great (numerically, not qualitatively) republican revolution of '94. similarly, low unemployment (though not necessarily for minorities) and economic growth had a lot to do with some of the painful restructing of the government back during republican regimes. improved trade throughout asia probably would have happened regardless due to the chinese opening up their economy (and incidentally their loans are now financing iraq and a bunch of other things). as for improving workers rights, yeah maybe he did improve their rights but 1. i don't really care that much about this particular issue, sorry 2. we also have to look at how this affects american workers in the long run (i.e. makes US a worse place to do business leading to outsourcing? debatable). as for the environment, yes he did good by protecting lands but i wish he'd done more, especially to reduce our dependence on fossil fuels. i hate all the !#$&%^%#$&$^%$%$^$&*%^%#$%^$&%^^#%$#*%^&$%^^#$%^^&%%^#$%#*&%^%^#$%^^&(%^#$#$%#$^&*%&(%^%#$@%^%&$&^%&( SUV's and pickup trucks that are out there for no good reason (people who have a GOOD reason, please ignore). but okay, i'll still give him that one.

more to the point, i think presidents are remembered by what they achieve in the long run. truman was wildly unpopular at the end of his presidency but is widely recognized as a great president because of what he accomplished in terms of building the post WWII structure. clinton should be thought of in terms of what he leaves behind. i think that given what he had to work with and what he accomplished, i'll bet that history rates him as... average.