Did my regulation interview today with the agent and it only took 40 minutes because she was headed back to Sacramento. Very nice lady and said she would type it up tomorrow and submit it and should have my 07 within a week or two depending on how busy the licensing center is. She said she has been with ATF for over 32 years and California has the silliest gun laws anywhere in the nation, I just smiled and can wait to get it so I can submit my paper work to the state for hi cap magazines and for centralized list.

I got a few question on starting a business to create aftermarket dress up kits for .22LR's.

Although I think its too much trouble for me to consider this but I'm real curious on how would I go about doing this? Can this be done on a small or medium budget for a test run before requiring larger capital?

If I were to do this, I would prefer to go the Archangel/Promag route and use similar polymer/rubber materials from a mold. I would think
its cheaper as a opposed to going CNC machining. Also I'm not talking about copying existing designs like the M1A JAE and Marauder G36 designs but creating my own tacticool designs

I know the basics of getting an LLC, business license, tax ID, etc. but know nothing about starting a business in the gun industry

Do I need permission from the BATFE and DOJ?
Do I need to become an FFL to sell dress up kits?
I have no interest on selling guns or gunsmithing

I've got a good paying job in computer engineering but can you make a good living out of this full time or is it only good as a side gig? Would be awesome to do this for living and it would be something I would enjoy if it doubles my salary.

There are local CNC machine shops around here in Los Angeles, but they require CAD files that I don't know how to use and I would assume they
require large capital and in bulk quantities. Although I've seen some local CNC shops that will take on small jobs on craigslist so I can call and inquire to get an idea on pricing.

Good news, I received a business license.
However, please tell me if the "Description of Business" is inadequate.
It says: "RTL FIREARMS"

I made it clear verbally and in a letter provided to the clerk at city hall that it needed to say "Valid for the retail sale of firearms". She took the letter to and discussed it with her boss. She came back and processed the application. Everyone at the respective departments at city hall were very helpful and professional.
I was surprised to see the permit not say what everyone here is advising it need to.
Questions:
1. Is "RTL FIREARMS" good enough for the DOJ?
2. If no, would a copy of the letter I provided the city instructing them it needs to say "Valid for the retail sale of firearms" coupled with the result (a permit saying RTL FIREARMS") be satisfactory to the DOJ?
2. If no to 1 and 2, should I go to city hall to ask for it to be changed before sending in my FFL application?

First, I want to thank those who have posted to this thread. They were a big help when I first began researching the possibility of becoming an FFL. I am now an FFL in CA doing business out of my residence, waiting for only the Large-Capacity Magazine Permit.

I would like to ask those of you who are experts for some help in operating my business, if you would:

1. I have a dedicated laptop with the Magtech card swiper. When am I supposed to swipe the buyer's driver's license? Before I fill in the DROS info or is the card swiping meant to fill the info for me? If I messed up (I think) and did not swipe the license at the beginning of the process, do I have to do everything all over again?

2. If a new DROS number is generated, does this mean the buyer is qualified to purchase a firearm and pick it up after 10 days?

3. Am I allowed to xerox the ATF forms myself (single-sided) or am I required to order all the forms?

4. If I make a firearm in my personal possession a part of the business inventory, is logging that as an Acquisition in the A&D book all I need to do?

5. If I want to deal in used firearms, are there any permits I need to acquire? If not, is the paperwork the same as with new firearms?

6. I bought a safe; I assume all the business inventory must be kept in it. Any other info. on storing inventory?

7. Am I ever allowed to make sure a firearm is functioning by firing it, before a sale, or does that make the firearm "used"?

8. If I ever have to ship a firearm, do you have any tips on which shipper to use (USPS, UPS, etc.), insurance, and the requirements on using the original box the firearm came in?

I am sorry for so many questions, but I am new to this, and would really appreciate some help from you veterans out there.

1. I have a dedicated laptop with the Magtech card swiper. When am I supposed to swipe the buyer's driver's license? Before I fill in the DROS info or is the card swiping meant to fill the info for me? If I messed up (I think) and did not swipe the license at the beginning of the process, do I have to do everything all over again?

Use the F5 key to swipe the information into the DROS on the Purchaser page while entering the DROS information. (F6 for the Seller on PPT)

Quote:

2. If a new DROS number is generated, does this mean the buyer is qualified to purchase a firearm and pick it up after 10 days?

The DROS number only tells you that the information was accepted. You and the transferee must wait the full ten 24 hour period before releasing the firearm. Denials and Delays can happen at any time during that period.

Quote:

3. Am I allowed to xerox the ATF forms myself (single-sided) or am I required to order all the forms?

Generally not. Order the forms or use e4473.

Quote:

4. If I make a firearm in my personal possession a part of the business inventory, is logging that as an Acquisition in the A&D book all I need to do?

Yes

Quote:

5. If I want to deal in used firearms, are there any permits I need to acquire? If not, is the paperwork the same as with new firearms?

Need a Secondhand Dealer permit and signup for FDAS.

Quote:

6. I bought a safe; I assume all the business inventory must be kept in it. Any other info. on storing inventory?

Yes they must be secured

Quote:

7. Am I ever allowed to make sure a firearm is functioning by firing it, before a sale, or does that make the firearm "used"?

Testing new firearms is OK but not a great idea IMO. Your customers will end up posting on CGN that "the gun was fired by the dealer" and everyone one else will scream "OUT THE SHOP".

Quote:

8. If I ever have to ship a firearm, do you have any tips on which shipper to use (USPS, UPS, etc.), insurance, and the requirements on using the original box the firearm came in?

USPS is probably the least expensive. The packaging should not indicate what is inside.

1) If you do not swipe the ID or if it does not work, you are required to make a copy of the ID.

7) If you are selling the firearm and inform the buyer that you test fired it, then you can do it, but personally I would consider it to be used as you are not the manufacturer. Are you qualified to test a firearm? Meaning do you have training and experience. Do you also want to take the risk that you could be blamed for a problem with the firearm?

8) For handguns USPS is generally the cheapest way, for long guns I have found FedEx ground is the cheapest.

I am considering setting myself up as an FFL 01. Tabletop dealer, no stock at least not at this point.
I was reading on the city web site and it looks like I would need a business license. Anyone know if there is any push back regarding this in Tracy? I figured I would ask. We have two known gun shops within city limits.
Also has anyone tried becoming an official retailer for a manufacturer?
Taurus is one that comes to mind which there isn't much in my area when you look online for a local dealer.
Also for those who have gotten an 07 license, what are the restrictions regarding manufacture? This might be the wrong place to ask, but as we all know the AR business seems to be booming. Complete AR systems are expensive, but has anyone considered the "budget" arena for such items?
I am trying to formulate a business plan that can be self sustaining. Providing reloads is one area, and possibly manufacture is another.
The gun business is a hard one, but given it's growth even as a part time business it seems like there is no reason we can all carve out a nice little niche in it.

Need some help with this.
Im in sacramento ca and im trying to get the whole FFL thing going and i just hit a road block. I called the business license unit to see what i needed to get a license stating i can sell firearms and they told me i need zoning and chief sign off. in order to get one so i go cool that should be easy,

-First i went to zoning to get my building approve which they told me is approve but will not put anything in writing inless i pay them $151 bucks for the letter of approve, so i told them i'll come back.

-Second i called the local chief of police to get a letter of approval from him that its okay to open a firearms dealer/retailer store in his city. They tell me i have to go get a FFL first and then go pay the business license unit the fee for the license to get the app "STARTED" then bring the papers back to police station along with the FFL to get finger printing after that they will review my app. but i can not do anything with out a FFL.

So what am i suppose to do now.. just go ahead pay and get the FFL first?

So I finally got my city permit but the wording on it was printed as "Home Office For Sales of Firearms" will that fly? It will be a pain in the *** if they have to reprint because my town only prints once a month!!

So I finally got my city permit but the wording on it was printed as "Home Office For Sales of Firearms" will that fly? It will be a pain in the *** if they have to reprint because my town only prints once a month!!

You should be OK.
I asked a similar question in post 95 and the responce in 96 from someone in my same city indicates it should be ok. You wording on your license is even more specific than mine so you should be even more better off.
I'm still waiting for my FFL, COE... so I can't yet say it wasn't a problem for me.

Need some help with this.
Im in sacramento ca and im trying to get the whole FFL thing going and i just hit a road block. I called the business license unit to see what i needed to get a license stating i can sell firearms and they told me i need zoning and chief sign off. in order to get one so i go cool that should be easy,

-First i went to zoning to get my building approve which they told me is approve but will not put anything in writing inless i pay them $151 bucks for the letter of approve, so i told them i'll come back.

-Second i called the local chief of police to get a letter of approval from him that its okay to open a firearms dealer/retailer store in his city. They tell me i have to go get a FFL first and then go pay the business license unit the fee for the license to get the app "STARTED" then bring the papers back to police station along with the FFL to get finger printing after that they will review my app. but i can not do anything with out a FFL.

So what am i suppose to do now.. just go ahead pay and get the FFL first?

First, as has been advised by most that have gone through this, don't move forward on anything unless you can get a business permit in the city for the retail sales of firearms. This seems to be the only somewhat discretionary item in the whole process. Once you have that and are not in an excluded class, can demonstrate you will comply with what's required as an FFL in CA, you're good to go on everything else.

I thought I was going to run into something like this when I went in to apply for the business license. After getting a look of disapproval, rolling of the eyes when telling them what my business was to be, I was told to get signoff from the planning department, bring in my FFL... and we'll go from there. Oh boy I think in my head, here we go... deep breath... find the right words, be nice... Knowing it's a waste of time and money to do anything else without the business permit, I told them I can't get the FFL without showing I can get a permit from the city. A little stretch, but the correct order for the prospective business owner.

She went to speak with the supervisor, and came back with an application and the form I need the planning dept. to sign off on. She said to provide them with the FFL and COE when I have them. Hmm, pleasant surprise.

OK, now I thought, what kind of issues may I have with the planning dept.? Turns out, none. They signed off on my home business as a firearms dealer... and only made a note that's already covered in the penal code that there are to be no discharging of firearms. They did not charge a fee at the planning/zoning dept. and didn't even take a copy of it.

I took it and the business license app in, paid the business license fee and my business license came a couple of weeks later.

Nice people, phew.

Now I'm waiting for the call from the ATF for an interview and my COE.

Advice (I'm not a lawyer and this isn't legal advice, just my thoughts):
-Be clear on what you need and want from them
-Without violating the next item, make it clear you know what you’re talking about and that you’re not a push over.
-Be courteous, nice, friendly as much as possible. Think that you’re representing a larger group, the rest of us gun people, because you are. We don't want any municipalities to close the door because one person gets out of line.
-Don't let them make up rules because one administrator doesn't like guns, you, the last guy that was in... If they say they need something that seems over the top (the CLEO approval for example), ask for them to point out the municipal code, ruling, guidelines... that requires it. On the CLEO, does it have to be the police chief of Sacramento, or could it be the Sheriff? I don't know of the Chief, but the Sheriff (Scott Jones) was named the CRPA piece officer of the year. I was at the banquet and his speech was great. He said everyone should be allowed to carry to protect themselves, not just law enforcement officers... Anyway, if you must get CLEO signoff, perhaps trying to get it from the sheriff would work. However, they shouldn't and probably won’t want to be bothered with this. Try to get around it. Some thoughts on that:
-Make it clear you won't play games doing things not required by a municipal code. Sorry, a verbal, hand written or even typed out letter isn't good enough. Any administrator can impose their own morals on you that way. It has to be something enacted by the city council...
-Explain to them that the CLEO must be informed of and sent a copy of your FFL application as required by the ATF. <that should satisfy the intent of what they're looking for>
-I would hold the zoning department to the same, don't make up your own rules philosophy as above. Do they need to collect such a large fee just to say you can have a home based business? Firearms should not be held to any different standard than any other home based business. x number of employees, cars, traffic, you won't change the look of your home...
-Explain to the business license people that this license is needed before you can get the FFL and that you will provide it to them when you have it. Further that a business license doesn't allow you to do anything in regard to firearms sales. That's covered very well by the BATFE and the state DOJ and that it takes several months to go through all of that... I would put this in writing if necessary stating you will not be conducting business until you have the necessary federal and state licenses and that you'll provide them you FFL # when you get it...

I called BOF and talked to the licensing gal and I told her I received my city permit but the wording was what I had mentioned above. She told me that she was glad that I caught because if I had sent it she would have sent it back. She specifically said that what ever the penal code says "Valid for Retail Sale of Firearms" then that what she wants to see on the city permit. I went to the city and had them add the correct wording to avoid problems. I have it all, just this damn permit is holding things up now until they reprint me a new one!!!

I was thinking of getting an FFL 01 just to save on the ridiculous amount of FFL transfer fees one has to pay in the Bay Area. From reading this thread, it seems that getting the FFL is not going to be an issue.

The big obstacle is that I live in Oakland, and Oakland is extremely anti-gun. I don't think they permit a home-based gun business. So I'm going to have to find a space in one of the surrounding towns and go from there, which isn't great, but it is what it is.

Here are some questions that I can use some help in:

How much business in a year do I have to do to satisfy the ATF requirements that I am running a business? I'm primarly planning on doing transfers, as opposed to retail selling of firearms.

Who do I talk with in the city to get my permit to sell firearms? What department am I looking at?

Once I have my business established and my FFL in hand, can I have guns I purchase online be shipped directly to me?

I've been considering getting an FFL. I live in Canoga Park (part of Los Angeles City) and I can only imagine what I'm going to have to go through to get my approval. Does anybody have any experience dealing with LA City to get the proper business permit?

Yes, the customer is the buyer. And it turns out he has an Interim CA License, but of course that does not qualify him. I told him he has to wait.

I wonder if I can revisit one of the questions I raised in my very first post above, which Jim addressed. So my understanding is that in order for me to take a trade-in firearm, I need to be a second-hand dealer. The only info. on becoming a second hand dealer in CA I could find was a PDF file associated with Santa Ana, CA. And there is nothing at CA DOJ website. Is the info. I found the correct one?

The secondhand dealer license/permit is a local thing, so it would be where you live, but then you need to signup for the FDAS, which is on the CA DOJ webpage, but you need to know the special words "Firearms Dealer Acquisition System" or "FDAS" :-).

The secondhand dealer license/permit is a local thing, so it would be where you live, but then you need to signup for the FDAS, which is on the CA DOJ webpage, but you need to know the special words "Firearms Dealer Acquisition System" or "FDAS" :-).

So I was following this forum and I got the idea that I wanted to run an FFL out of my home. After calling the San Jose business licence deaprtment they said oh yeah sure no problem, BUT you should call your local PD first. So I did and I actually talked to a nice guy and he said in this day and age it is IMPOSSILE. A couple years ago, yes it was possible.

He said his friend had one and gave it up because the ATF was bugging him at all times of the day at least every few months. Too much of a hassle. He said commercially it is possible, but in a residential district it will not happen. You can get so far with a business license, a FFL, but the road block is the second hand dealer license allowing you to take items on consignment and such.

I have never heard of the ATF bugging people, unless they are doing something wrong. If you can get a local business license, then the rest tends to be pretty easy (although it can take a long time).

For a home based business, it does not always make sense to have a second hand dealer license since people are not going to typically come over just to shop. Most want to order a firearm or do a transfer.

Is it possible to get and FFL without ever having the intentions of going into business?

Do you need to be 'in business' to complete PPTs?

If you get a FFL are you now exempt from the 10-day wait?

Basically I am considering getting an FFL if I can circumvent the 10-day wait for myself and maybe knock out a few PPTs a year for people I know. I would be based out of my house and 100% non-profit. I wouldn't be looking to write anything off on my taxes.

Maybe if I won the loto or made a killin’ the NYSE then would I consider opening a store. In which case I realize I would need the business license.... etc.

FFLs are for businesses. Yes, you need the FFL and all the other permits/licenses in order to do PPTs. Yes, with all the licenses and permits, a FFL is exempt from the 10 day wait.

It is a business, with all the tax issues, including sales tax. Unless you do a lot of transfers, you won't make money due to all of the costs associated with all the licenses/permits, as well as insurance.

You will have to show the Investigator at the time of interview , that you will be doing business , however it can be as large or as small as you want , as an FFL yes you have to do PPT's . No 10 day wait for FFL . On the ATF app . there is a Q , asking if this is for business if you check no you wont even get an interview . They really dont care how you run your business as long as record keeping is correct and you can show your selling some guns per year , to warrant the FFL . If you approach it from the angle you describe it will be denied , check the stickys above its all there .

I'm late to the party but I'm here. I just got my Type 07 FFL as a home-based business. I can throw in a few comments and I'm willing to help anyone with questions. The ATF agent couldn't have been nicer. I could say the BATFE was one of the easiest things I had to deal with. My city was tough and I attribute it to ignorance of a few people. The ATF agent called the city to ask if a firearms dealer was allowed as a home based business. As far as I had researched, it was not on the prohibited list and I planned to comply with the other restrictions (noise, traffic, signs, etc.) The first person I spoke to, also the person who told the ATF agent it wasn't allowed, was ignorant of the rules. Her response: "It just isn't allowed." Cities are required to follow the rules even if their employees don't like them. They did have one out at the bottom of the home-occupation code which stated "Any other use determined by the Zoning Administrator not to be incidental or compatible with residential activities." So I went straight to the Zoning Administrator who listened and talked to me like a sane person. After about 30 minutes he said "Seems OK" and emailed the ATF agent that he saw no restriction. I received my FFL within a few weeks after that. It wasn't as easy as I've made it sound here. It's been quite a bit of work since this is an actual business. "Kitchen-table" FFL's don't seem to be a problem for the ATF. I have a list of clients already: mainly friends, family, and referrals. If you want an FFL so you can save some money, don't bother. If you have a passion for firearms and don't mind getting your hands dirty in figuring out the law and arguing with people who don't know it, go for it. It's not cheap just to get through all of the licensing and legitimate paperwork required for any real business.

Other points of interest:
1) There was no problem with Type 07 other than the city being afraid of noise or machinery. The ATF was fine and didn't really question it.
2) This took way longer than I anticipated. ATF was slow to respond. Zoning Administrator was slow to respond. City police were slow to respond with "Valid for Retail Sales of Firearms" local license. Plan for at least a few months of work and waiting, even if things go off without a hitch.
3) The ATF interview was really simple. I met with the agent at a coffee shop since we were waiting to talk to the city planners. She wouldn't let me buy her coffee so she couldn't say she was bribed. And then she followed me to my house for about 10 more minutes of glancing around and giving me documents. Most of the documents were outdated. I found the latest ones online. I have to say the ATF really has their act together with all of the online PDF forms. I was able to recycle almost all of the documents and publications given to me during the process.
4) I also applied for Class II SOT which is also straightforward. As I said, the ATF instructions are easy to follow.

Maybe others have similar or different experiences. I hope I can help anyone that is seriously trying to get their FFL.