Warning about Suboxone, Subutex, and Stadol?

I've been on rather high levels of opiate pain medication for years. All are now prescribed by a legitimate Neurologist/Pain specialist, although in the past I've had a doctor with questionable morals, motives, and knowledge. Anyhow, I've always done my best to be very informed about these drugs, and since I've actually gotten off them a few times over the years, (trying to live without being a slave to medication, which didn't work) I've done a lot of research (especially after a recent episode) on Suboxone, and Subutex, which is the Bupenorphine just like Suboxone, but without the Naloxone, the "blocker". Well I once took a Subutex, (straight Bupenorphine) before coming off of the other drugs in my system (Fentanyl and Oxycodone). I was thrown into the worst withdrawl of my life, with insanely intense vomiting, diahrea, shaking, kicking, and cold sweats. I looked like I had been beat up, and had two black eyes when I was done because the vomitinig was so intense I burst all the blood vesels around my eyes, and on my face. I and nearly called 911 because I couldn't crawl to my car to drive to the ER. After doing my research I saw that Bupenorphine, and other drugs like it, like Butorphanol the active ingredient in Stadol, have such a strong binding affinity with the opiate receptors, that if you're still on high doses of other opiates, it will literally rip it off of the receptors, and block the receptors from recieving the drugs in your system, and as I mention, induce percipitated withdrawl. Moral of the story is, just because your opiate tolerance is high, it doesn't make all other opiates safe, in fact the WORST thing you could do is take SMALL doses of these other opiates, because they will replace and block whats already attached to your receptors, without giving you enough to supplement the required level to keep you out of withdrawl. In retrospect, had I taken more Subutex, I probably would have been OK, but at that moment, that was the last thing I was thinking I should do. So be careful, we all know what Suboxone can do if you take it too early, but Subutex can do it too, and so can Stadol! I had a similar experience with Stadol years ago, and just recently after this event with Bupenorphine did I realize what had happened to me. I had thought that maybe it had caused overdose since I was one high levels of other opiates, but that seemed unlikely, but was the only explanation I had for feeling so sick. Only now do I realize that was my first experience with rapidly induced withdrawl. Just be careful, and do research ON EVERYTHING before you take it, and make sure you consider all the variables of your own situation. Just because one drug worked for someone else, doesn't mean your situation is the same. I've seen too many people who have had Suboxone work for them, then reccomend someone else getting on it, WAY too soon. If you're not in withdrawl already before you get on it, it will send you there so quickly, and violently that you'll do ANYTHING to make it stop, and same goes for Subutex. That's my rant, I hope that maybe someone reads this, and it keeps them from making the same mistake I did. I wonder if anyone else here has already had a similar experience?

Responses (14)

Ive done it twice by accident too. Its absolute living hell. Both times I thought I was into withdrawals enough but I most definitely wasnt. The first time I decided to take a Sub at night and go straight to sleep and hope by morning Id be feeling better, boy was I wrong. It woke me up instantly when it kicked in a short time later and I literally thought I was having a nightmare cause Ive never woke up and felt that bad instantly. I dont wish precipitated withdrawals on my worst enemy. Its the worst feeling Ive ever experienced in my 30 years here on earth.

Your safest bet is to google "COWS" (clinical opiate withdrawal symptoms). You can check your current symptoms and it will tell you a score to see if you are far enough to take it. But as a general rule, 24 hours for most ppl is fine. It always worked for me. Good luck, and congrats on taking the big step! It took me a long time to get up the guts to do it.

Thanks for that story klaatu, many people are confused about the naloxone in the suboxone. They think that it's the naloxone that causes the precipitated withdraw's... but as you learned 1st hand... it's not. I am glad you're ok now. Buprenorphine has improved my life 100% percent and i will stay on it as long as i have to. Therapy is working much better for me now that i don't have cravings to fight all the time. Someday i will be drug free--- but for now, I am happy with the suboxone. Good luck to you... i hope you are pain free and happy!

I had a similar experience. I had been taking norco 10/325 and MS Contin 30 mg 3 times a day. My doctor who had prescribed those pain meds turned around and gave me a script for that Butrans pain patch whose main med is Bupenepherine, without instructing me to stop the oral meds for a few days which was necessary. Within 18 hours I was thrown into precipitated withdrawals that were pure agony. If death had been an option I would have gladly chose it. I had to be taken to the ER where the patch was immediately discontinued and I was given a shot of Dilaudid to get my pain somewhat back into control. Yes I feel my dr messed up but I know all about Bup, Suboxone, Subutex. I never thought twice about it for some reason. Being aware of possible side effects is crucial when starting or changing meds, especially while on narcotics. Know your meds!

Hello. First off I'd like to.say thanks to everyone who commented on this post. I am 24 years old and been addicted to opioids for over half of my life. I have been in opiate replacement therapy for almost 4 years. I first started out on 35mgs of suboxone daily. I still to this day remember VERY well, the 3 days before my induction phase. I wanted to die because of the wds! I felt absolutely wonderful after my dr. administered the 1st dose of suboxone. But that isn't what I'd like to talk about. What I wanna share is my experience rapidly switching back& forth between bupre and oxycodone. On a side note, I just wanna say that my experiences were quite different from those posted. First: out of pure stupidity, I took suboxone through IV and never once had withdrawal or sickness. It only caused it after maybe the 4th or 5th time. Naturally, after it did happen I put a stop to it.

During the 1st year of suboxone treatment, I wasn't entirely ready to quit my opiate abuse. I would regularly jump from subs to oxy or M.S. and than back again w/o ANY adverse reaction. Next: over the last 2yrs I've been on subutex. In my opinion subutex has helped me get "clean". Along with the most valuable part of my recovery, going to a 12 step program. I feel like everyone who is prescribed bupre. should be required to attend some type of therapy or program. (Just a personal opinion) anyway, I have never experienced any of the events discussed on this board. I'm not quite sure why, but its just not happened to me. I suppose I've done absolutely everything I possibly could that should've made me sick, but no dice. I'm in no way writing this to show off or gloat, but I simply thought I should share my own experiences sense they are almost opposite of those posted here. Thanx to all who posted on here. P.s. I apologize for the messiness of my post, I'm currently going through some very serious personal problems and my mind is scattered from here to the moon.

Deear drew, you are so right about the addiction therapy, 2 thumbs up and you just "got hammered," too. That is the award I made up that is better than simple thumbs ups. It is supposedly mandatory for a subs rx for the person to do the therapy, but so many people want to keep their dependence issues a secret and try to do this on their own. They blow off the therapy as a hassle, time vampire and too expensive but not doing the therapy and staying supported are dangerous short cuts that end in many a relapse. Welcome to the site and thanks for that insightful answer. Patti

Hi KLAATU my name is mickey or mik934, you seem to know alot about this issue. i have been on pain meds for 7yrs and have never made it past the 3 day mark due to such bad withdrawls, my pain meds i have been on are Perks 10/325s about 10 to 14 a day as well as norcos 10/325s 10 to 14 a day as well both together. i am no longer on oxcy.. I want to get off both pain meds as they are destroying my life and i think id rather be in the pain then live like this.. if i quit cold turkey do you think i could die or will the withdrawls just be hell for several weeks till i start to feel better? Thank you for your help if you can!! Your friend Mickey from chicago.. God Bless..

DOCTORS - heads in butts - Just did some quick math cause About 10yrs ago I insisted on pain meds without the Tylenol. FYI using your smaller 10 per day dose you have ingested about 16,607 Grams or about 600 POUNDS of acetaBS which they find more harmful now that we've taken billions of tons of the crap. anyway for whatever reason you can get oxy without it but not hydro --- why would this asinine doc give you the same - just a thought for you to consider 600lbs of a drug you can buy at any store - no prescription - no limit is a step short of murder

Hi Klaatu... thank you for the informative exerpt on these drugs. And yes I agree with whomever made the comment about WHY did your doc NOT tell u that precip wd would happen if u r not first in moderate withdrawal from the other opiates. Shame on him. Yes these drugs are categorized under the agonist/antagonist classification. They are agonistic bcuz they relieve Pain at the mu opiate receptor site. Conversley they are antagonistic because they kick the other opiate off the receptor site and attach on. They are actually used sometimes in the place of naloxone to treat opiate overdosage. It is unfortunate that some docs do not know this and unfortunately what happened to u then occurs. Thanks for sharing your wisdom and insight.

Mik... no you cannot die from cold turkey... you may feel like u want to die but nothing life threatening occurs like the DTs in alcohol wd. Now. That being said, I am sure that there have been some unnecessary deaths occur in hard core addicts who rapidly come off of, say heroin, for example. These people are usually malnourished, dehydrated, and cachectic and I am sure that some of them may have died due to some of the complications aforementioned. I personally think that buprenorphine is the way to go. You really don't need that much and it very gently allows you to get off the other opiates without those terrible wd symptoms. In addition it allows your brain to get rid of all of those extra receptor sites that were sprouted during the excessive opiate usage. Buprenorphine is NOT an "up regulating" drug, therefore it does not cause your body to produce more receptor sites. You can conceivably b on the same dose of buprenorphine for a long time without ever having to increase the dosage. The brain also then begins to reboot itself after a while and starts again producing its own natural opiates, endorphins. So this is why I am a pro suboxone kind of girl. It has certainly helped me. Good luck in whatever u decide to do. There are others here who HAVE gone cold turkey successfully. Some have used the Thomas recipe and other methods like using Clonidine. It can be done successfully also. Pick which method u want and go for it. I know you have a lot of pain issues Mic... I certainly hope that you have thought through this carefully. I DO know what u mean by saying that u r a slave to the drug. We will be with you very step of the way. Good luck my friend and thank you Klaatu for sharing your excerpt on the agonist/antagonistic drugs. Pup

Dear pupcake and mik, this is an old post obviously and I hope I will not sound jaded when I say Klaatu probably didn't get them from the dr. I apologize to him if I am wrong. He also may have had a relapse and had an old rx. This is why the dr repeatedly will ask you when was your last dose of opiate and also gives you a COWS quiz. At least a good subs dr does. And they give it in the office so they can monitor your vitals and make sure you aren't having anything weird go on. He would NOT have been ok had he taken more, he would have gotten even sicker. The only reason I am commenting is because so many people do read these posts and the info needs to be correct. I am happy he shared, but I had to fix those errors in case someone else reads what he wrote, obtains some subs from an... ahem... Freelance unlicensed pharmaceutical supply man and tries to do the same thing too early. And I wanted mik not to be scared if he ever does decide to start subs. Patti

Wow, it's so nice to know that people really care about addiction and really try to help one another here. Pup is right to explain in detail what suboxone is used for and how to use it. This drug is very helpful for addicts but it has to be used correctley or it will make you veryyyyyyyyyyyyy sick. My doctor had to see me beginning my withdrawals at a detox center b4 giving it to me. I just dont think anyone should detox at home because of the physical and mental problems that often require medical help immediatley. Believe me I have tried and failed on my own. Just to note: you also need to be under a doctors care when getting off suboxone. You can not go cold turkey, you must taper down to crumbs and do it slowly because you will also go into bad withdrawals if you just abruptley stop.

Good luck guys thks to all that help here

AN

Anonymous24 Nov 2011

Dear new friend, welcome to the site. Thanks for your input as well. Addiction therapy is supposedly also mandatory to a subs rx, but it is not being enforced. It makes all the difference in the works to do the therapy and have a support system in place. Thanks, patti

I doubt you're still here but bebe522 is correct. It isn't the Naloxone that blocks other opiates, it the Bupe itself. I know this because my doc explained but also because I take pure Bupe, Subutex, and I also cannot take other opiates too close to it. What happened to you is 1 reason I get upset that dumb docs are still telling people the Naloxone is the blocker. If only you knew the truth you never would have had that bad experience.

Mickey, I have very mixed feelings about using Suboxone at this point. Even though I'm on Subutex I still have these mixed feelings. On the 1 hand Sub has all the advantages pup said it does. But it does have 2 big drawbacks they don't tell you about. I'm going to tell you and if Sub is the only way for you to go then do it. But if I was you I'd try a slow taper off what you're on first. Take all the meds that make the wd a little easier. The latest is supposed to be Zofran. This is according to my doc, I never tried it yet. He says it relieves many wds. So take Zofran and the other helpful drugs and try a slow taper program.

If you must use Suboxone just know this. We all know you can't feel a high from other opiates while on Sub, but most of us also can't feel a high from alcohol neither. This may last long after you stop Sub. We just don't know. Sub doesn't cause a tolerance to itself, but it causes a massive tolerance to other opiates. It has been suggested that this massive tolerance is just due to what the equivalency of the other opiate is to Buprenorphine. I hope so. It has also been suggested that Bupe stays in the system long after you quit taking it and that's why you can't feel a high off alcohol or opiates long after stopping Bupe. This would also explain why you have a high resistance to other opiates after quitting Bupe. I don't know if this is true. I hope it is. And exactly how long does Bupe stay in you after stopping it is unknown. It has been suggested that it stays in you a proportionate amount of time to how long you took it. But what that means we don't know. But these are the 2 drawbacks to Sub I know of. On the plus side it may also help with depression if you feel depressed. So if you decide to use it just be aware of all this. If you have to abruptly stop Sub due to surgery or an accident you will need a lot of something else to kill the pain.

Patticakes... thanks as always for further elucidating... this is WHY YOU ARE THE GURU!!! Thanks... cake!!And Thor... bupe does have a much longer half life but after that it SHOULD be gone... where else would it be stored? In our adipose??? Don't know how lipophilic it is??? Just curious as to what u r meaning?? With friendly intent...

AN

Anonymous20 Nov 2011

Thanks cupcake, Thor knows so much more about how it works in the brain, but just from what I experienced and have read, bupe IS embedded in the fat layers, like benzos and pot. That is why it takes so long to wear off. And the brain is mostly comprised of fat, according to my counselor, Barb Z. That is also the reason it will test positive for bupe for days and days after the last dose. Patti

Thanks Patti, that sounds very correct. I never said I know why Bupe does all the things it does. But I have been on and off it several times since 8/2004 and I have experienced what happens. That's what I know, what has happened to me. It's up to the MD's in this world to figure out why. And unfortunately I don't see them doing this. I haven't heard of any studies or experiments being done with Bupe to learn about these strange and unwanted phenomenon. I was not told these things would happen. If I was I might have chosen to never go on Sub. I mean I really don't know. I was only on 12 of the 7.5 mg Vics a day and only that much for 4 months, much less before that. Like everyone else I was deeply ashamed of myself for becoming so opiate dependent. I didn't have a good PM doc who would have known what to do and I was scared to look for one.

I had 1 doc who said I might be able to go on Suboxone, but he also said he is only supposed to use it with Heroin addicts, no one else. Why, I wanted to know why and he would not tell me. I think now I know why now. But time will tell us what's the truth. Because now Suboxone use is very popular and if thousands of people start to have the problems with it I have had there will eventually be something done that should have been done before it was given to pain victims.

I apologize for my anger, but this whole thing upsets me very much.

AN

Anonymous20 Nov 2011

I hope you know how much you are appreciated here and I do still say you know a lot about how it works in the brain. I too was on just a low amount of opiate and possibly should have just cold turkeyed, but, I think I would have relapsed and have accepted that I did the right thing at the right time. You really didn't sound angry here, you sound a bit like you are regretful, but I am glad you a here and take subs and have taught me so much. Please know we love you here. We named an award for you, that is bow much we love you. You are special. We may not always understand each other and we may disagree sometimes, but you are a friend and in our family here. I hope you see this soon. Love ya, patti

Dittos Patti re: Thor... and Thor thank you. You appear far more knowledgeable than I on this subject. I am mainly going by what my sub doc has quoted me... and as I I stated in my PM I will gladly give you the source next time I see him. I think that people are put on WAY TOO MUCH suboxone and for WAY TOO LONG of a time. This scares me to death. I can only trust, and I DO Patti's taper plan. IT CAN BE DONE!!! My doc says that the last 2 mg is psychological, but from what I read here everyone has experienced other than what he says. I DO admire his knowledge of pharmacology... I truly do but I think he is wrong here. I will definitely ask him next time I see him. Actually I can call him any time that I wish... but I think not on a Sunday night!!! Thank you Patticake and Thor for educating and enlightening me more on this subject.No Thor, you did not seem angry to me either... just frustrated as patti said.This is a frustrating and frightening battle.

I will star my next taper very soon!!! But I, like Patti did, feel still that I could possibly relapse if not on them. I need to get some things right in my head like the reasons why I was using them to numb my brain in the first place.I am working hard on this seeing my addiction counselor AND my psychologist who got me through my divorce... it is hard but it must be done.Good night all... I must go sharpen my saw... l.aka.l..get my office work done to reduce my desk clutter lol!!! Have a good night and a good week. This has been a stimulating and informative conversation and I appreciate it all... I am sorry if I have confused or steered someone in the wrong direction... love,

Thank you ladies, I love being here. I know I am often misunderstood from the last 2 boards I used to be on. That's one reason all my posts are so long. I try to explain everything thoroughly.

I am a little angry I wasn't told Bupe would me unable to catch a high off alcohol. I am also angry because now it seems that Name Brand Subutex is no longer available. I don't know what that means yet.

The only reason I'm not furious about being put on Sub is because Bupe has an anti depressant effect on me better than anything else. And when I was on NB Bupe I never even once desired any other drug. I did need the occasional Benzo for excessive anxiety, but Benzos never made me high, ever. Not even Valium. But while on NB Bupe I never even wanted a beer, and before Bupe a week didn't go by without at least a few beers. However, now on generic Bupe I want a few beers again almost every week, but they no longer do what I want. But I don't desire anything else. So this is the only reason I'm not very angry.

Pup one thing you said sounds just like me. You said you need to discover why you used to like opiates. I'm guessing now, but maybe Bupe is doing for you what it does for me. I never believed this whole addiction thing was really a sickness. But once Bupe made the symptoms go away I figured it out. And according to my doc, who isn't always right neither, my conclusions on what addiction is are very close to his. It is some kind of physiological brain disorder that causes an emotional illness. I believe the 3 main symptoms are depression, anxiety, and low self esteem. Or you can say we are just overcome with really bad feelings about ourselves everyday. There are ways to try and beat all that, but by taking Bupe much of it is simply gone. I have 1 friend who is the epitome of what I consider normal. She has explained to me how she feels so often I understand why she hates any psychoactive drug. When I take Bupe I feel like my normal friend, except I'm taking a drug to feel this way and she feels this way normally. So this feeling of normalcy is one reason I may stay on Bupe forever. The other reason is spontaneous spinal nerve damage. It causes a constant pain syndrome in my right arm. Nothing can make it stop, and only an opioid med can make it diminish. The short acting opiates work better but they all make me more depressed after a long time. Only Bupe diminishes the pain and almost wipes out the depression and other bad feelings I associate with this addiction illness. I'm wondering if you pup are going to come to the same conclusions as I have. I should mention that I don't think Bupe did all that until I was on it almost a year. Or maybe I just didn't realize it for almost a year. It was almost 7 years ago and I forget. I do remember always wanting to get off Bupe and get back on short acting opiates. Until one day I realized all my bad feelings are gone with Bupe, and since they were gone I never wanted any other drug. That took close to a year either to happen or for me to realize it. So if it isn't happening yet it may just take a little longer. Although on another board I was told it doesn't happen for everyone. Okay, we are all different. I'm rambling.

Thank you ladies, I love being here. I know I am often misunderstood from the last 2 boards I used to be on. That's one reason all my posts are so long. I try to explain everything thoroughly.

I am a little angry I wasn't told Bupe would me unable to catch a high off alcohol. I am also angry because now it seems that Name Brand Subutex is no longer available. I don't know what that means yet.

The only reason I'm not furious about being put on Sub is because Bupe has an anti depressant effect on me better than anything else. And when I was on NB Bupe I never even once desired any other drug. I did need the occasional Benzo for excessive anxiety, but Benzos never made me high, ever. Not even Valium. But while on NB Bupe I never even wanted a beer, and before Bupe a week didn't go by without at least a few beers. However, now on generic Bupe I want a few beers again almost every week, but they no longer do what I want. But I don't desire anything else. So this is the only reason I'm not very angry.

Pup one thing you said sounds just like me. You said you need to discover why you used to like opiates. I'm guessing now, but maybe Bupe is doing for you what it does for me. I never believed this whole addiction thing was really a sickness. But once Bupe made the symptoms go away I figured it out. And according to my doc, who isn't always right neit

Thor... we love you here... you are always a welcome and knowledgeable source. You were one of the first who came to my aid when i first came here and was so despondent... so I will always remember this... thank you... As far as ETOH goes, please read my reply PM to you.As far as addiction being a disease it is... I never believed it either until I saw brains with people who have the addiction trait and those that did not... then I knew and had to accept it... and I do believe it now... not because I am one but because of what I saw.

The reasons you state are very true for those of us using opiates for reasons other than what they were prescribed. Many people have had traumatic events occur in their lives... abuse, physical and sexual, traumatic events, broken families, whatever... but the bottom line many times IS low self esteem... but many times it is just too damn hard to have to relive some of those memories in life... our inner child wants to keep them at bay for some are too painful to remember... our subconscious wants to get it out... some of us don't have the tools to do that or sometimes it is too painful... whatever... we revert to the path of least resistance... we numb our brains with ETOH, drugs, whatever... sad but true... Good night all... and Thor please stay around... like patti said there is an award named after you... don't know what it is but I am sure patti will be back to tell all... I MUST go do my office work NOW!!! good night...

AN

Anonymous21 Nov 2011

It's the getting hammered award. I have now rebooted the boater award, it shall still be given out for outstanding support, congrats pup, ya just got booted. Patti

i sent u a question in private but im getting suboxone i hope on tuesday.i

2 questions how much do u recomend i take if im taking 130 to 150 mgs a day oxycodone?wats cheaper tabs or strips? and did you say wait 24 hours after my last dose of [percs? thats where im most confused im depending on ths website for my recovery.youve given me faith.

Yes, wait 24 hours after last dose of short acting opiates. The films may be cheaper, but I actually recommend the pills. Dr may start you an 16 mgs, but you can drop that down to a lower dose and not have the constipation, insomnia and sweats from a dose of 16 mgs. There is about a 2 week adjustment phase, but most people feel absolutely fabulous 2 hours after the first dose. Let me know if you need more help and I did answer your pq. Patti

AN

Anonymous28 Nov 2011

Hey patti plz tell me if headaches and naushas are common w subutex? I knw ths sound funny but when I took suboxone early ths am I felt better than with the subutex? Idk wat do u think please help hope all is ok, headache is killing me

I was taking about the same amount of hydros as you were oxys when I began my suboxone therapy. There was no mention of wait time, so I didn't and there were no problems. I was thrilled. I started on 21mg (3 pills or strips) Suboxone tastes terrible and the pills are the worst. I don't know the difference in cost. I started the suboxne to treat opiate addiction, but it's so good at pain control for me, that I am considering using it indefinitely. I had to have surgery a couple of weeks ago so my doc put me on subutex for a couple weeks prior so I could just stop the subutex and go right onto the norco. When I was done with the norco, I went back to subutex. I really prefer it, there are less side effects for me. I am finding that it's addicting too and that you do get tolerance to it... however if I take 32mg I really don't feel good the next day at all.

I wish I didn't need anything for pain, but both of my hands are full of arthritis, both of my hips have been replaced and need to be replaced again... I have a lot of pain and I don't know of a better way to deal with it... so far, it's a godsend. My doc isn;t registered to do subutex therapy for pain, so I'll be back to suboxone when the subutex I have is gone.

AN

Anonymous4 Dec 2011

hey how long do u have to wait between ur last dose of subutex to take a perc well ur case narco? and then how long to take the subutex again? i really want to take just one but dnt want to get sick.

I didn't wait at all. I stopped the norco and started the suboxone the next day and when I went back on the norco, same thing, I stopped the suboxone and next day started the norco. Now I am on subutex with no waiting after stopping the norco after the surgery. I was surprised to hear that other people had such intense reactions to it. Everyone is different and the drug, even though percs and norco are very similar, they are a little different. I even took a couple of norco while on suboxone to see if anything would happen and nothing happened at all.

I just took 2mg of subutex for chtonic pain. It made me feel tired but unable to sleep and nauseated. I never really took opiates for long or regularly. They made me sick. We tried them all. I had taken 10 mg of Vicodin 3 days ago. And none the week before that. Im wondering if that is a milder version of whats happened to me. Im not so sure I will take any more of this one.

I am not responding to the warning above so much as I am asking if anyone taking Subutex/suboxone has gotten mouth sores. I was only taking 4-8mg of subutex and my mouth and throat broke out in lesions. I couldn't eat at all for several days... it felt as though I had been swallowing razor blades! It took being completely off the stuff for three days before the sores subsided. I stopped doing them sublingually to avoid the pain and they worked ok, not as well and it does say on the packaging to not to swallow, but I didn't want the detox. Now I can't seem to get off the stuff. It lasts for about three days and then the withdrawal becomes strong enough where I will swallow 1mg or so and then go another three days, ad nauseaum. Anyone have the same experience with the mouth sores? My doc gave me some ativan and clonidine to help me through the detox, but I am so miserable, I take just 1-2 mg and I'm better... then three days later...

does anyone know how long they need to be off the other narcotics before taking the Stadol NS? If you take a higher does of the Stadol will it take the place of the other Narcotics? with Stadol being counter indicated in my medical care does anyone know anything that would replace it for migraines?PLEASE HELP I THINK MY DR IS STUPID(and im being nice)he always ask well what do you think will help you? the hell if i know i thats what i pay you for him for!

Yes I had similar exp. with suboxone which I am on day 5 off after being on it 3months. Went to sub. dr. on a Sat. 9AM. He asked when I done last oxys and I truefully told him 6AM. He said to wait till 6pm then take prescribed dose of subs. Not long enough into wd and thats for sure. Got sick as a dog all night long, luckily he works his suboxone patients on weekends and I got ahold of him 1st thing Sun. morning and he upped dose and then I started feeling better.