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Re: Bleach 522 Discussion / 523 Predictions

Originally Posted by Kid Chameleone

yeah i can explain that. its like when youre angry and yor in a different state of mind, not usually yourself. shirosaki or hichigo is a representation of ichigos inner hollow and his battle instincts and only appears when ichigo is stressed, damaged or unconscious and dominates ichigos inner world when his hollow powers are stronger than his shinigami ones.

i just relate that to real life. his hollow powers represent anger and instinct, which he can control in the form of his mask like an angry person keeping their cool but when ichigo reaches his limit then he goes full hollow and enters a fit of rage. he is still ichigo just not himself.

its the same with zangetsu. hichigo is just a representation of ichigos instincts while zangetsu is the real thing, its like hollowq ichigo is just the angry version of zangetsu. when his hollow powers aka his anger are in control hichigo appears so its not really like they are different people, just different personalities

Thats all fun and all but were talking about 2 or more zanpakutos from the same soul> like how the royal guard has them. Since he has them its simply a fact that its possible.
Also isnt it so that ichigo has more then 1 entity inside him. Yes. So its not impossible to have more entities. This is all just facts not made up

Another thing is that Shunsui has 2 names for his zanpakuto. 花天狂骨 This again shows its 2 not 1. What do you need to at least see it as a solid theory?

Re: Bleach 522 Discussion / 523 Predictions

Originally Posted by ca12nag3

Thats all fun and all but were talking about 2 or more zanpakutos from the same soul> like how the royal guard has them. Since he has them its simply a fact that its possible.
Also isnt it so that ichigo has more then 1 entity inside him. Yes. So its not impossible to have more entities. This is all just facts not made up

Another thing is that Shunsui has 2 names for his zanpakuto. 花天狂骨 This again shows its 2 not 1. What do you need to at least see it as a solid theory?

okay maybe my water analogy will make you understand better.

WATER. can be three separate things at the same time. water, steam and ice. all of which are three different substances but still water at the same time. so lets say zangetsu is water, since he is the main source of ichigos powers. zangetsu is water, boiled becomes hichigo and frozen he becomes whatever quincy powers ichigo gets. all of which are different things but at the end of the day all spawn from one source, zangetsu aka water.

They all have to spawn from one origin which is zangetsu so when it comes down to principles they are all one in the same just different shapes or forms as i explained with my water analogy. you can have water, steam and ice all in the same room they may look and feel different but at the end of the day the are just different shapes of water, just like hichigo and zangetsu are one in the same, can be in the same place at the same time, act and think different but at the end of the day they are just bits and pieces of the true zangetsu.

This also applies to shinsui's swords, they release from the same command so this shows its the same power source or at least the same being. the fact that he has two swords just means its spirit split into two different halfs like a coin. a coin is one solid object but on one side we have heads and the other we have tails, both the same entity just different sides. its like when you flip a coin, one person calls heads and the other calls tails, they are both the same coin but different sides with different names set them apart so are they really different? no, they are merely two pieces that comprise one whole.

shinsuis swords have two different names because theres two of them, thats it. his spirit may be split into two beings but they are at the end of the day the same being. like twins, two beings born from the same egg, same dna and everything but two different minds at the end of the day though they are two sides of one being split down the middle not separate entities, no one in the manga has shown more than one spirit inside them.

like shinsuis swords, twin blades, two different names. would you call two different swords the same name? you gotta differentiate them somehow

Re: Bleach 522 Discussion / 523 Predictions

@Kid Chameleone
you mean different states - e.g. liquid, solid, gas.
However, I am sorry, but I do not get your point (how this comparison works).
Nor do I follow how Shunsui's dual zanpactou ties to Ichigo's hollow/shinigami forms.
I also can not seem to grasp your explanation of Shunsui's zanpactou.
sorry...
Do you mean that just because he uses two different names for his swords, doesn't mean that they are different? Or, do you mean that it would be strange for him to give a name to his pair of swords - rather than name them individually?
Also, can someone please point out to me where he actually does name his swords individually? I always remembered him naming them as a pair...

Re: Bleach 522 Discussion / 523 Predictions

Originally Posted by zimbardo

@Kid Chameleone
you mean different states - e.g. liquid, solid, gas.
However, I am sorry, but I do not get your point (how this comparison works).
Nor do I follow how Shunsui's dual zanpactou ties to Ichigo's hollow/shinigami forms.
I also can not seem to grasp your explanation of Shunsui's zanpactou.
sorry...
Do you mean that just because he uses two different names for his swords, doesn't mean that they are different? Or, do you mean that it would be strange for him to give a name to his pair of swords - rather than name them individually?Also, can someone please point out to me where he actually does name his swords individually? I always remembered him naming them as a pair...

It's all speculation. A theory. Don't take it to heart.
He never actually does that, but for some people apparently, "Katen Kyokotsu" counts as two names.
He's referred to his zanpakutou as "her", if I recall correctly, but that's it.

While Kyoraku's zanpakatou has two names, Jushiro's is named after the the zodiac sign of pisces, which in turn is most often depicted as two fish, bound by something, just as his shikai is. It's not hard to imagine that those two were strong enough to form a bond to two different zanpakatou spirits imo. Maybe Shunsui can only call summon both at the same time, because they are a set/pair from the very start, thus calling out one without the other may not work too.

Re: Bleach 522 Discussion / 523 Predictions

Originally Posted by Exodi

It's all speculation. A theory. Don't take it to heart.
He never actually does that, but for some people apparently, "Katen Kyokotsu" counts as two names.
He's referred to his zanpakutou as "her", if I recall correctly, but that's it.

*shrug*

when he says her its in reference to when he doesnt want to pull out the other sword, and as we all know it becomes her. He doesnt say a name but only her. So in this case its a reference to a earlier mentioned entity either 1 of the 2 swords or them together. But its clear that there are 2 names when he says his zanpakutos name. You cant just judge that he ment both his swords when he says *her*while it can easily be that he only ment his offhand. But that this is slightly lost in the translation.

While Kyoraku's zanpakatou has two names... ...Maybe Shunsui can only call summon both at the same time, because they are a set/pair from the very start, thus calling out one without the other may not work too.

Although I agree that it is possible for him to have 2 spirits (especially considering the cryptic [due to Shūhei Hisagi's zanpactou] comments by Yamamoto - about only dual zanpactou in all of SS), and do quite like the idea of them being strong enough to have 2 spirits... Shunsui has never (to my knowledge) called one sword out individually. For example, calling upon "Flower Heaven" or "Crazy Bone" individually. He has always called them as Flower Heaven, Crazy Bone. This, to me at least, suggests that the pair is called this. And, not necessarily, that one sword is "Flower Heaven", and the other "Crazy Bone".
The 2 Spirits thing is interesting though!
However, if this was the case, does this mean that at some point Ukitake's zanpactou's were not connected? And, also, why do they blur into one sword when he seals his zanpactou? Could both spirits share the same body/sword in the unreleased state?

Re: Bleach 522 Discussion / 523 Predictions

Originally Posted by zimbardo

Although I agree that it is possible for him to have 2 spirits (especially considering the cryptic [due to Shūhei Hisagi's zanpactou] comments by Yamamoto - about only dual zanpactou in all of SS), and do quite like the idea of them being strong enough to have 2 spirits... Shunsui has never (to my knowledge) called one sword out individually. For example, calling upon "Flower Heaven" or "Crazy Bone" individually. He has always called them as Flower Heaven, Crazy Bone. This, to me at least, suggests that the pair is called this. And, not necessarily, that one sword is "Flower Heaven", and the other "Crazy Bone".
The 2 Spirits thing is interesting though!
However, if this was the case, does this mean that at some point Ukitake's zanpactou's were not connected? And, also, why do they blur into one sword when he seals his zanpactou? Could both spirits share the same body/sword in the unreleased state?

You rause a interesting question. As for shunsui he has 2 swords also carrying them and it seems they both have a name. As for ukitakes its a pair of twins as pisces and it splits in 2 when summonned. Id love to see the start of it. Also howcome shunsui has 2 this must have raised questions with other shinigami.

Re: Bleach 522 Discussion / 523 Predictions

Since it stems from his own soul, it's likely just a representation of his faceted personality. Flower Heaven could be his usual self, laid back, while Crazy Bone comes out when he needs to go crazy, not caring for collateral damage/selfinflicted damage as seen in the Stark fight.

Joshirou's personality seems to go hand in hand with the definition of the zodiac Pisces, and as such is consistent with his zanpakatou too. It's one sword because someone born Pisces, is still one single person after all, not two, but can have those two different and opposing characters at times. Just that Ukitake prefers to be one way similar to Shunsui.

Re: Bleach 522 Discussion / 523 Predictions

Originally Posted by Schabrak

Joshirou's personality seems to go hand in hand with the definition of the zodiac Pisces, and as such is consistent with his zanpakatou too. It's one sword because someone born Pisces, is still one single person after all, not two, but can have those two different and opposing characters at times. Just that Ukitake prefers to be one way similar to Shunsui.

Could this be a good basis for Renjis new sword? Just an idea since Zabimaru consists of a baboon with a snake-tail. This could be a imperfect form of his actualy Zanpakuto that could be 2 swords instead of 1.

As for Ichigo i dont think he would wield anything other then Zangetsu, be it that he needs to love him ... lol

Re: Bleach 522 Discussion / 523 Predictions

Originally Posted by ca12nag3

Could this be a good basis for Renjis new sword? Just an idea since Zabimaru consists of a baboon with a snake-tail. This could be a imperfect form of his actualy Zanpakuto that could be 2 swords instead of 1.

As for Ichigo i dont think he would wield anything other then Zangetsu, be it that he needs to love him ... lol

seems to me that renji has a chimera zanpaktou- a single creature with multiple aspects fused together to make the single being. like the baboon/ snake- sort of like a zanpaktou version of ayon.

Re: Bleach 522 Discussion / 523 Predictions

While I'm not really happy with the idea myself, Zabimaru apparently was shown as two entities(like in the filler) in one of the omakes. I'm sure his fighting speed is pretty slow because of it's length, even though it can turn at any angle, but something more compressed would surely not hurt him Imo. Don't know if reforming every single bone will be easier than transform it into something entirely else.

Re: Bleach 522 Discussion / 523 Predictions

I'm inclined to think the baboon-woman/snake-boy Zabimaru shown in the filler arc is non-canon. Although I don't know why they'd even bother giving it a new design for that arc to begin with. But the only form we've seen in the manga is this one:

and there's really no reason for Kubo to have changed it. Hopefully we'll get confirmation in the next chapter or so. I for one hope Kubo sticks with the above design though, because personally I'm not fond of the other one. Renji's sword having two spirits doesn't even make sense, since it's a singular weapon, unlike Shunsui and Ukitake's Zans.