Posted - 2011.05.03 04:27:00 -
[31]
Sorry to say, Mars, but your post is very wrong on so many levels that I don't even know how to respond to each point you've mentioned without breaking the EULA. So, I'll just kindly ask you to stop posting because you are only embarrassing yourself.

Thanks.

---

About the subject:

- Increasing the available monthly buddy invites was a great idea. Viral marketing - best marketing.- Getting back to making trailers that are coming from inside the game world was a great move. Trailers should continue to be like that. It won't hurt to have the little "All scenes in this trailer were captured using in-game rendering engine" title before the video. It helps presenting how EVE really looks like (without having to download a massive client first to see it).- About bringing back old players that left the game... you can't do it by doing something like anomaly nerf. Players that have left the game usually don't bother with ads about EVE on other sites. Those who have left know where to find the information about what's going on inside the game - the devblogs. And, honestly speaking, from Grayscale's devblog to new forum fiasco, you must work hard to bring at least something that community really wants in order to attract old inactive players. Old players haven't left because of the lack of the new content after all.

Players lose interest in EVE, and move on to other games, whether they be new players on trials, or subscribers that have been with the game for some time.

To answer my earlier question: Why do players quit?

Lack of success.

Griefing.

Lack of budget available to pay for the game.

Nothing to do.

Bitterness over areas of the game that have been changed, and unwillingness to overlook or adapt to a new development.

Frustration, as a result of any or all of the above.

If you can't get players to stay in the game, then what is the point of marketing? It costs money, time and resources to market a product.

Look here, and see the results of recent marketing. Pay particular attention to the period following mid 2009, to late 2010 and 2011. Check Subscriptions 150k - 1m, under MMOData Charts v3.2 on the left.

Find the problem, solve it and membership will increase more steadily, instead of rising suddenly and shortly after, dropping away to equal or lesser numbers than before.

You make a few valid points, and I'll not argue them.

Buddy Invites is great. It works, and people with a lot of friends can help bring new people into the game.

Real game footage for trailers fails to disappoint new players who try the game as a result, and they will stick around provided they do not get encouraged to leave.

Nerfing ruins games. Balancing improves them. Most nerfing is done as a result of player encouragement or exploitation. Sometimes it is done simply to combat RMT's. I can't say whether that is effective, but I am fairly certain RMT's would find less market for their product if players had an easier time getting what they want.

This is one of the effects of passive income, players getting what they want.

What happens to Browser games as subscriber levels increase? They get too overloaded, new members can't compete, and they start up a new shard.

Everything I said is valid in some fashion, you just have to understand it, or maybe even look for it.

Try checking out Rookie chat sometime. The new players that join up and start there, freely voice their opinions and ask for what they think is missing. Then they, more often than not, quit. Sometimes within less than 3 days.

Posted - 2011.05.05 05:22:00 -
[34]
It's analysis, and that is all. I've played the game for some time, and these are some of the observations I've made.

Regardless of that, I don't believe half the voices in this thread, were doing anything different than I. Most of what I've seen is singles-sided views of whats wrong, rather than suggestions to help with marketing.

No advertisement/marketing scheme by itself, is going to bring players back into EVE who are frustrated and have quit.

New players see their frist 30 days in Rookie chat, whether they pay attention to it or not is dependent on the player, but many do and voice their opinions.

So why not use Rookie Chat as a marketing Research tool, if only to see what players who join the game are looking for? No questions required, just reading and watching new players interact.

The suggestions I've seen here have been done, and besides that, many are not of much value on their own.

"EVE, where you can train skills, even while logged off." - How much incentive is that really? Skills take time to train, and instant gratification isn't on the menu either way. Not that a new player can see anyway, until they figure out some aspects of the game.

High SP is not required for success in EVE online, though it certainly does help. Not a lot of new players can see that, and many do not know how to train their skills effectively, or even know what they want to do.

EVE is diverse, not because of a phenomenal amount of content, but because players have to choose where to put their SP to make every point count towards their eventual goal.

Much of EVE's content is provided by the playerbase. In reality, there are only really 3 areas of play. PvE involving combat, PvE involving Industry, and PvP. Everything else is the result of player interaction, with the assistance of associated skills and game features.

EVE is very solidly within a niche market. Many people simply will not be interested, and no amount of marketing will keep them interested once they discover actual gameplay is not to their liking. That's true of many things though, and simply means increasing consumer base requires changes to satisfy the new consumer base and make them happy. This also has to be done without damaging the current consumer base too much.

Any change is too much for some, while many others can adapt to small changes, and some don't even mind sweeping changes to how the game is played.

This is for CSM to read and make decisions on how to approach CCP, and what they think is the best approach for marketing as a result of what they gather here. I'll let them decide whether any of what I have to say is relevent or not. If you don't agree with me then you don't.

I posted my thoughts, and that is all.

Marketing goes farther than advertising, so with that in mind, why doesn't someone else post something.

Posted - 2011.05.05 22:13:00 -
[35]
Reduce Monthly fee to $9.95 a month, making it competative with WoW and other games.

Introduce VIP status, with bonus SP per month in the form of either a SP drop like has been implemented on the test server, or through an item like the Cerebral Accelerator, that is good for 5 days of boosted skill training. VIP Status on an account, will be the same as the current monthly fee.

Bonus items like the unique shuttles, Primae, and others will now only be available to VIP's, making them rarer and potentially of more value. To encourage VIP status, these ships should also be more capable, and have real purpose within the game.

Introduce an in game or online store, for purchasing items and content.

Items available for purchase will include more unique ships that fall into the faction and T2 category, new modules similar to faction modules, BPC's and BPO's for unique items and modules, with varying degree's of research already completed on them, minerals in various quantities, permanent attribute upgrades, and various other things.

Make Buddy Program invites good for 12 days, reduced from 21, and give a skill point upgrade to starting characters on an account created with a buddy program invite.

Reintroduce starter packages, giving beginning players access to more in depth skill selection and character building from the start.

Reduce trial accounts to a 7 day period.

Reduce the cost of PLEX to something more suitable to a $9.95 fee, and require two PLEX to continue subscription with an account upgrade to VIP status.

Make Accounts that have been active for more than 3-5 years Veteran status, with some of the benefits of VIP Status including continuation of free ships with the benefit of only having to pay for a base subscription.

To lure back bittervets, who have accounts older than 3-5 years, allow them to resub, and receive the benefits of veteran status after only 3 months.

Originally by:Marconus OrionHire a studio to do a serious of five minute episodes on Cartoon Network and/or Sci-fi channel like Clone Wars.

Full 20 minute eps using carbon based char rendering like we saw so much of at Fan Fest, in game rendering of space battles. But the key is this: BASE THE STORIES OFF EVE'S HISTORY. Not the in game fluff, I mean the main selling point of the game: player generated drama in 0.0

You have like 7 years worth of material to draw from. Animate the great northern war I keep hearing about that spawned BoB+the NC. Bring to life the contrast of BoB and ASCN, and the epic conflict that saw the first titans created and destroyed. Tell the world of how Mercenary Coalition brought the dagger right to the neck of the NC. Draw viewers in to the circumstances around the betrayal and disbanding of BoB and the rise of Goonswarm. YouĂd have to adapt some things to bring everything into the ˘world÷ of EVE but the characters and the stories are right there and more material is being created every day!

Most of the players involved at the big scale are still around or at least alive. I have no doubt theyĂd be willing to sit down to interviews or otherwise help fill in the gaps for the writers to help promote the game (and their own legend). You might get the occasional objection of people not liking how theyĂre portrayed but I suspect anything more serious than whining would be infrequent if not singular. Heros, villains, who cares weĂre on TV! Plus EVE lends itself to the kind of writing and character development where the distinction of good guys vs bad guys isnĂt always so clear...

DonĂt even worry about putting it on actual TV yet. Distribute online, via a site and/or YouTube. The existing EVE community will be all over each new episode like a fat girl on cake allowing you to show an existing audience which will help get the show on other platforms.

You want to talk competitive advantage. NO OTHER MMO IS DOING THIS. No other MMO really *could* do this in a meaningful way because they donĂt have the single shard mature universe CCP has developed. Put the effort into making it look as good as Clear Skies if not better using the engine youĂre using for Incarna, and we will soon stop measuring your customer base in hundreds of thousands. WeĂll start talking millions.

I think this is perfect. Taking some time to send out a few mails to CEOs and directors after large fights to take a few quotes from them. check kill logs to see how people are doing. set the spotlight on large wars and also small trades/fights. in Pure Blind we have people coming in and out constantly changing our tactics and roams. i think this will also be huge when figuring out what may need fixing. if it acts like a journal u will quickly be able to see that maybe, macherials (spelling?), are overpowered since someone just took out 15 people in one hour with one. the idea of also being part of the big picture because of what we do is motivating. it will cause drama and unrest to these boring giant northern alliances.

Posted - 2011.05.06 22:45:00 -
[37]
PvP in eve is RETARTED you have more, enemy runs. Enemy has more, you run. Warp off, log off... No skill, no fighting, just trying to find a way to exploit grief and scam.

Yeah, I can kill a newb. That's it. Anybody else brings x3 more friends. IF you argue with this argument you are stupid.

Grind to get gear! Wonderful, loose it all to mission DISCONNECT or stupid griefer.

FUN combat in eve? Never had any... if you are from 2008 pls do no bother to post. There is more fun in Battlefield 2 or Real Time Strategy. You have chance in 3v1 there, in eve you don't.

Originally by:OpertonePvP in eve is RETARTED you have more, enemy runs. Enemy has more, you run. Warp off, log off... No skill, no fighting, just trying to find a way to exploit grief and scam.

Yeah, I can kill a newb. That's it. Anybody else brings x3 more friends. IF you argue with this argument you are stupid.

Grind to get gear! Wonderful, loose it all to mission DISCONNECT or stupid griefer.

FUN combat in eve? Never had any... if you are from 2008 pls do no bother to post. There is more fun in Battlefield 2 or Real Time Strategy. You have chance in 3v1 there, in eve you don't.

You know, I'm **** at solo PvP, and I haven't had much success at PvP in EVE in general. Part of that is for the reasons you listed, but it's also because I don't spend a lot of time PvPing.

Your attitude sucks. PvP in EVE has great potential and can be a lot of fun if you do it right. It's not about dropping a massive gate camping and waiting for newbs to fly through, though a lot of people do it that way, and it's not about warping off and logging off, every time you see a force larger than yours.

The best fun I've had in PvP has all been in gangs, roaming and skirmishing with next to no kills, and most often no losses. That's fun, and that's PvP how it should be. Not great Fleet battles where no one knows what they're doing, and everyone fits for max DPS and no tank because they know if they're primaried they're done anyway. 0.0 Blobbing works this way. Crowd-tanking lagfest, and that's about it. I've never done it, but I know the basic theory behind it, and it doesn't impress me.

Even without lag, it wouldn't be much fun. Wait.. I have done it, but only in a mass test on SISI, and it wasn't the least bit fun. I didn't even get shot at, though I did get jammed out a few times by my target. Not PvP.

Lowsec is rediculous, and it's hard to believe bullies in a schoolyard could fly big ships like that. That's all it is really, with the rough equivalent to calling the teachers when they run into trouble, being either petitioning a GM cause someone is spoiling their fun, or using aggression mechanics to dodge the fight. Sure it's technical, but not really interesting. Also not PvP.

Originally by:OpertonePvP in eve is RETARTED you have more, enemy runs. Enemy has more, you run. Warp off, log off... No skill, no fighting, just trying to find a way to exploit grief and scam.

Yeah, I can kill a newb. That's it. Anybody else brings x3 more friends. IF you argue with this argument you are stupid.

Grind to get gear! Wonderful, loose it all to mission DISCONNECT or stupid griefer.

FUN combat in eve? Never had any... if you are from 2008 pls do no bother to post. There is more fun in Battlefield 2 or Real Time Strategy. You have chance in 3v1 there, in eve you don't.

Sadly you're right in the point but all you get for saying truth it's trolls and stone age comments.

I have a sun, aged now of 18 and tried to bring him to Eve.In just a few days he just said to me that Eve's for fools or masochists. No feeling he was doing something good or wrong, grieffers, can flippers, scamers... someone took him to pvp, obviously he lost his ship faster than he got in to the fight or understood what he had to do.

He just left. He just told me to try some FPS (free), me that hates that stuff where every one shoots you from every where and always head shots you !!

He was right, when you can't or don't want to spend more than 1 or 2 hours playing internet games any FPS is more fun, dynamic than any activity in Eve.Unfortunately this is not ready to change because of those stone age players and centenarian minds incapable to evolve. They are happy with what they have why change it?

EDIT: It's pretty nice to talk about Eve's marketing but what tools do we dispose?

Does CCP fixed any goal to achieve that we know? -noDoes CCP fixed any kind of player interesting them more than another? -no, opposed to some nerds comments nothing says witch is the kind of Eve's player or not and their player type target, and it's certainly not some nerd dev's signature the official version.

Originally by:Trebor DaehdoowWhat advice would you want us to give him about seducing unsuspecting gamers into paying for the privilege of being podded?

Well, you have the incentives in place already with the free trial and the free download of the client. Some more incentive to play the game would be good, as gamers tend to know that an MMO is a commitment.

Trying to obtain gamers who do not want to play an MMO is not going to give you ROI, what you need to do is obtain gamers who do want to play an MMO. From a trailer perspective, I think 'The Butterfly Effect' was a very positive step in the right direction and as you are using Youtube and Google Analytics (or you frickin' should be!) I guess you can see what the conversions are like and what your traffic breakdown is like to the all-important 'download client' button.

So, find what MMO gamers want and apply your marketing along those lines. A few knee-jerk thoughts would be:

1) Give the would-be MMO gamer confidence the game will not die out. So, stable independent company, measurable growth in game content, lively and committed player-base, etc. This will mean their investment of time will not turn into a barren wilderness, full of poorly managed content.

2) Adversity, challenges, rewards, variety [this is not covered enough in trailers - too much 'kaboom', EVE has extensive PvE] - make them feel if they download the trial and try it out there will be enough for them to do, with people to make friends and enemies with.

3) NO GRIND! I have yet to see this advertised anywhere. Why? It is one of the key differentiators of EVE to every other MMO.

4) You've got the woah-factor down pat with the presentation, but are you focusing too much on the end-game/0.0 aspects when marketing? As much as it makes for exciting trailers I would be surprised if it would not alienate would-be MMO players who [at this moment in time] you just want to play the game, not create an alliance and take over the universe - you must be scaring some people off with that type of marketing.

Originally by:Trebor DaehdoowAnd what honey could he set out to lure back the elusive bittervet?

It's hard to know how to answer that without knowing what the statistics are:

1) Average Subscription Length2) Average time to High End Content [biggest ship]3) Reason for leaving

In general I'd say you could:

1: Look at their friends list and see if the people they associated with are still playing the game, so use the social aspect/angle. "I will play again if I knew that my friends are still playing/active" This could hypothetically have a double bonus to it, as the person who is still active could be thinking "It ain't the same since xyz left...maybe I'll quit the game" and 'boom' you just gave them their friend back.

2: You've got the cost thing down just fine, so use another aspect...something tangible ONLY for veterans, like 5 years plus sub time that is in game...waiting for them. I don't know what it could be, maybe a shuttle - hell even a 'veteran' tag in their info window or pink writing for chat channels! Or even a veterans-only club when you do WIS...just some sort of tangible game content which only veterans can have.

Make them feel special, singular...that you value their custom in some way other than just a free hall pass for a few days. They might have been demi-gods in control of a 1,000 starships at one point. Make them feel that way again, make them question their decision to leave other than using cheap psychology.

3: See what is in their hanger(s) give them an appraisal/market value in Jita pricing - make them remember what they left behind, get them thinking. A pretty picture may paint a thousand words, but nothing you can think will be anywhere near as awesome as the mind of veteran with 1,000 hours of gametime under their belt. They know what they left behind, you just have to remind them about it - in a positive way.

The Butterfly Effect was a good example. It was about how one person can make a difference. But, a lot of games do that: One player makes all the difference in the world... But then have no real examples of this happening. It's pretty common, and players expect that those kinds of stories are more fantasy than anything else. Yeah yeah, I'm the one dude that can make the difference, ha ha, whatever...

But Eve is different - one player really can make their mark. I think it would be interesting to drive that point home using real examples from the game's history.

Eve is full of cases where a single person, or a small group of dedicated people, has accomplished something big. A series of advertising campaigns centered around real events may help generate interest.

It is what interests people when I talk to my friends about Eve. They know that "it's that space ship game where you shoot people" but not a whole lot more. Talking about how nice the ships look, or how the market is player driven, or how sand-boxy the game is garners some interest, but nothing entrances them more than mentioning examples of how real players affect the game.

The Eve Bank scandal is one that really seems to get people interested and say, "Wow... You can do that? That's awesome..." Perhaps not the most positive example, but a very interesting one that showcases how Eve isn't like other games.

Pick some people that have done something notable, or run a well known organization. Help them tell their stories in as engaging a way as possible. The Faces of Eve. A market mogul (Akita T), a mercenary (Pitboss, Alekseyev, whoever runs Pandemic Legion), a pirate overlord (Helicity Boson, Larkonis, Mynxee, etc.), leaders from the NC and SC (and why they hate each other so much), the CSM guys, whatever. And you can't forget Chribba, the man with veldspar inked onto his arm for all eternity.

Okay, that last bit might be a bit creepy to most people, but you get the idea. It doesn't really matter who is chosen as long as it's interesting.

One might also want to consider using the Alliance Tournament as a marketing tool more aggressively. It's free to watch, entertaining, and showcases some of the depth of Eve's PvP system.

Posted - 2011.05.30 22:04:00 -
[44]
EVE Online is the best game ever created by man.

This is Online Game with astonishing graphics that leaves speechless everyone. This game is a sci-fi simulator that reflects number aspects of real life.

The game has economic relations. Military, criminal, security and counter actions are dependent on the economy and welfare.

It covers such areas of life as a political, industrial, military service, marketing, management, leadership and so on.

The most incredible thing is that everyone can learn these things without learning them - just playing the game.

I sincerely believe that intelligent parents should support and encourage their children to play this game, unless they (I mean parents) want their children to be losers, slaves, or dying dinosaurs in this rapidly evolving world.

Originally by:Marconus OrionHire a studio to do a serious of five minute episodes on Cartoon Network and/or Sci-fi channel like Clone Wars.

Full 20 minute eps using carbon based char rendering like we saw so much of at Fan Fest, in game rendering of space battles. But the key is this: BASE THE STORIES OFF EVE'S HISTORY. Not the in game fluff, I mean the main selling point of the game: player generated drama in 0.0

You have like 7 years worth of material to draw from. Animate the great northern war I keep hearing about that spawned BoB+the NC. Bring to life the contrast of BoB and ASCN, and the epic conflict that saw the first titans created and destroyed. Tell the world of how Mercenary Coalition brought the dagger right to the neck of the NC. Draw viewers in to the circumstances around the betrayal and disbanding of BoB and the rise of Goonswarm. YouĂd have to adapt some things to bring everything into the ˘world÷ of EVE but the characters and the stories are right there and more material is being created every day!

Most of the players involved at the big scale are still around or at least alive. I have no doubt theyĂd be willing to sit down to interviews or otherwise help fill in the gaps for the writers to help promote the game (and their own legend). You might get the occasional objection of people not liking how theyĂre portrayed but I suspect anything more serious than whining would be infrequent if not singular. Heros, villains, who cares weĂre on TV! Plus EVE lends itself to the kind of writing and character development where the distinction of good guys vs bad guys isnĂt always so clear...

DonĂt even worry about putting it on actual TV yet. Distribute online, via a site and/or YouTube. The existing EVE community will be all over each new episode like a fat girl on cake allowing you to show an existing audience which will help get the show on other platforms.

You want to talk competitive advantage. NO OTHER MMO IS DOING THIS. No other MMO really *could* do this in a meaningful way because they donĂt have the single shard mature universe CCP has developed. Put the effort into making it look as good as Clear Skies if not better using the engine youĂre using for Incarna, and we will soon stop measuring your customer base in hundreds of thousands. WeĂll start talking millions.

This, because, like a certain MMO taht is coming out soon, most people got hyped and wanted to play it because of the companies release of 2 short videos about the game. big thing is, only focus on 0.0 for the advertisement, because that is whats unique, whats constantly changing, and what most players will get hyped over.

Posted - 2011.06.16 22:23:00 -
[47]
EVE is famous in the MMO market for being a game that has a steep learning curve.

The current new player experience is bewildering to newbs and needs improvement.

In order to appreciate and understand the EVE sandbox, itĂs imperative to find and join a corp that fits the new playerĂs particular needs as well as teach them to get the most out of their desired activities.

EVE Uni is famous for being a corp run by people dedicated to bringing new players up to speed and part of an corp events.

So why can't CCP run their own corp for newbs - they have the resources to do so.

I suggest that CCP use the Factional Warfare Militias - specifically, make the FW Militias run by CCP employees for new players. After all, if they can hire people to run the help channel and have the funds to create DUST 514, they can sure as hell use the same resources to draw and retain new players to both EVE and DUST 514.

After the new player does the tutorials, he has a bunch of shiny ships that he's itching to use. He is automatically assigned a Militia based on his starting race and is directed to the corresponding Militia hub system.

Every Sunday and a rotating weekday, each Militia schedules a fleet op of varying type - FW PVP, HiSec/LowSec Mining, Tutorials, etc. Naturally, there are going to be other players trying to grief or crash these events, so the CCP employee running them would need to be flexible. On other days, Militia members are still close enough to each other to run their own ops if they like.

From there players can choose player-run corps to fit their particular timezone, language and activity preferences.

Posted - 2011.06.17 10:01:00 -
[48]
One of the strongest points about this game that I don't see exploited enough is how PvP has real impact. Let's take WoW for exmple, as lets be honest, that's where most people are going to be coming from, being the biggest fish in the pond by a long way and all. For around 6 years (I think) the Horde and Alliance have been fighing over various bits of land via battlegrounds. Thousands upon thousands have poured in and given their virtual lives in these conflicts, and yet the situation has not changed one iota. You defeat an opponent and are granted a couple of points, and 30 seconds later they're back in the thick of the fighting, unaffected.

In EVE the same broad conflicts over territory and resources exist, and they are actually at stake. Set your sights on a system to conquer and victory doesn't mean points and a step closer to some achievement, it means you conquer the system. Defeat an opponent and they loose their ship, potentially affecting their ability to fight effectivly for some time. Even if they can a afford to replace it 10 times over, you still make a measurable dent. You may remove them from the fight totally, be it because they have to go pick up a ship, fit a new one, or are unwilling/unable to risk anything more. Even if they come striaght back out with another boat from the stockpile, you still cost them, and chances are, they're tactics and loadout will reflect this. Defeat is actually meaningful, you take a chunk our of your resources with every loss, forcing you to learn and adapt, and making victory all the more sweet when you achieve it.

This is EVE's USP, what sets it apart from WoW and it's clones, and I just don't see it being overtly exploited enough.

Posted - 2011.06.23 04:43:00 -
[49]
Checking out the new store and an in-game shirt should cost (IMO) like 1-2$ max. Right now it costs the same as a real shirt.

If they sell, great. CCP can roll around in their RL money and laugh. If they don't sell maybe reduce them to a price that is Second-Lifeish. Where I am actually tempted to pony up a few hundred million ISK for a new outfit. Or a monocle. Or some boots...

Posted - 2011.09.07 10:20:00 -
[52]
WIS and more rp type things, so players and corps can mingle together. Corp only rooms so you can hang with corp without having noobs/randoms ruin the rp experience.

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