Gudeline on Escort Services

I've seen Blissfulight reference the guidelines on Escort Services many times. Where are these guidelines posted and by whom? Google has an Escort Service category in the drop down box and allows both verified and unverified Escort Services on Places.Please enlighten me.Thanks.Regards, Debb

The guidelines for mappers can be found by clicking the Gear at the top of the map within Map Maker, and then choosing Help. I took a quick look and I'm not sure that there is anything in there about escort services, but I'm sorry to tell you that it is most definitely within the reviewers guidelines. You can find more by searching this forum for escort.

Hi Flash,Thanks for the reply. I took your advice and searched the forum for something conclusive about escort services but found nothing other than Blissfulight saying it came from"on high". I still think that each submission should be judged on it's own merits.Regards, Debb

Hi debb, I replied in your other thread, but then I found this one. You are right, in that in this forum there have not been any Google employees stating the policy, it's only been RERs and other users.

There is another forum where Google gives instructions to the RERs, and in that forum Google employees have made it abundantly clear that escort services are not allowed, which is why it's been communicated as such by the RERs here in this general forum.

There's more than one kind of Escort Service. This may be what's causing the confusion.

Small towns in South Carolina still have 'Flag Escort Services" who provide cars (sometimes with flags) for parades, funerals, and anything else where extra cars are wanted. There used to be one here where the public could rent pickup trucks and station wagons, mostly for moving.

Personal escorts apparently began as a North American phenomenon that reached world wide popularity more quickly than Google was able to keep up. When Dan first brought this up there was the usual long silence. Google decided that personal escort only was verboten...the rest are okay.

The cite is probably in Dan's Spamfighter article in Mapmakerpedia.

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Once again I say that each escort service should be judged on it's own merits as there are many well run services that vet the escorts, pay taxes and have real offices. Many of the problems you cite are with the escort directories where no one is vetting anything and I agree they are a big problem.Google scrapes aggregate sources and puts Escort Services on Places so it doesn't seem that they're against displaying them.And no ,Escort Services are not illegal , prostitution is, and not all services are providing prostitution.If you doubt it ask yourself why people pay online cam sites and spend big money in strip clubs just to watch and maybe get a lap dance.The same goes for legal escorts the only difference is the privacy.I understand some industries are more likely to spam and that's why you don't want escort services on maps but I think it would only be fair to take it on a case by case basis.As for the politics Google makes ad money side by side with porn listings so I guess they're not that worried about it.Regards, Debb

On Monday, May 28, 2012 2:05:38 AM UTC-5, blissfulight wrote:

Although this hasn't been codified in the help guidelines, escort services of the sex kind aren't permitted on Google Maps. There's really no ambiguity here. And yes, this comes straight from Google. For further enlightenment, there's the Places content policy guidelines, which are applicable to any kind of business: http://goo.gl/LrJ1X. The guidelines vaguely prohibit some sex-related businesses, but more importantly, they specifically prohibit illegal businesses, and escort services, no matter how fancy you word the disclaimer, are illegal (except in a few counties in Nevada).

To be clear, here's some problems with escort services:

1) It's illegal almost everywhere in the U.S., despite the relative lax enforcement of existing local, state, and federal provisions.

2) Most escort services use either UPS Store boxes or false addresses, again due to the fact that it's illegal, and to prevent anyone from tracking down sex workers (violent johns, the vice squad, or the IRS). Private (and public) mailbox services are a violation of Google guidelines: http://goo.gl/RtNu5.

3) There's no way to verify the age of the sex workers, and not all sex workers are doing this work voluntarily.

4) It's politically untenable for Google to be seen visibly supporting the sex-for-hire industry, particularly when they're subject to so many anti-trust and privacy investigations (look at what happened to Craigslist).

Looking through the websites and the listings, it strikes me how spammy most escort services are. From the highly misleading photos lifted from other sources (including competitors), to the massive proliferation of multiple listings for the same business, to the coded content obviously and blatantly selling prostitution, it's really as spammy as they get.

On Monday, May 28, 2012 2:05:38 AM UTC-5, blissfulight wrote:

Although this hasn't been codified in the help guidelines, escort services of the sex kind aren't permitted on Google Maps. There's really no ambiguity here. And yes, this comes straight from Google. For further enlightenment, there's the Places content policy guidelines, which are applicable to any kind of business: http://goo.gl/LrJ1X. The guidelines vaguely prohibit some sex-related businesses, but more importantly, they specifically prohibit illegal businesses, and escort services, no matter how fancy you word the disclaimer, are illegal (except in a few counties in Nevada).

To be clear, here's some problems with escort services:

1) It's illegal almost everywhere in the U.S., despite the relative lax enforcement of existing local, state, and federal provisions.

2) Most escort services use either UPS Store boxes or false addresses, again due to the fact that it's illegal, and to prevent anyone from tracking down sex workers (violent johns, the vice squad, or the IRS). Private (and public) mailbox services are a violation of Google guidelines: http://goo.gl/RtNu5.

3) There's no way to verify the age of the sex workers, and not all sex workers are doing this work voluntarily.

4) It's politically untenable for Google to be seen visibly supporting the sex-for-hire industry, particularly when they're subject to so many anti-trust and privacy investigations (look at what happened to Craigslist).

Looking through the websites and the listings, it strikes me how spammy most escort services are. From the highly misleading photos lifted from other sources (including competitors), to the massive proliferation of multiple listings for the same business, to the coded content obviously and blatantly selling prostitution, it's really as spammy as they get.

Hello,My point was that Google makes money from ads placed next to adult sexual sites so I don't think they're politically motivated to worry about escort service listings.And yes Google allows strip clubs, strippers and sensual massage on Places. Google also allows escort services on Places and I'm sure if you weren't deleting them they'd be on Maps too.I only have one listing and there is nothing spammy about it. It's the real address where I have my landline installed, pin verified via postcard to that address and listed in the local print yellow pages at that address.I don't have multiple listings,fake address or anything else that is considered spam. Please take another look and tell me what you're considering spam St Louis Escorts .Anyway I'm glad this discussion has been civil and thoughtful so thanks for that.Best regards, Debb

On Monday, May 28, 2012 5:33:31 PM UTC-5, blissfulight wrote:

I try to judge each on its own merits, and err on the side of caution. If I pulled down your listings, it was because they were spammy. Google allows strip clubs on Places, doesn't allow cam online sites (it's not something that really fits in their Places model, and not because of any legal/ethical complications, but because it's not something that is location-based since they don't come to you and you don't go to them, except in the most virtual sense).

Yes, Google bots scrape all kinds of websites, and they're often wrong, which is why I end up deleting their messes. It's a mindless bot programmed to do one thing, and not very well, either, considering their mistakes.

There's also a ton of leftover escort listings on Places that were previously taken down, and then re-instated due to a bug, so don't feel bad that you don't have a listing.

No, escort services are not illegal, but paying a service provider working under the guise of 'escort services' for sexual services is.

I guess I'm not seeing the issue with ads. The Adwords links are for legal businesses--I'm pretty sure porn isn't illegal unless you live inside a Baptist Church in Tennessee. Webcam is legal (even though neither business type has a presence on Places).

You are active in my area, you just pulled a listing down an hour or so ago, A Escort Services, and no I don't just want you to agree with me, I just think you have your own moral agenda going on and you're abusing Maps with it. Since you're not a Google employee or shareholder etc why do you care so much about Google's legal position.All other search engines have Escort Service listings in they're local search so I don't think Google's at risk.I can and have been on Places and will be again. I don't really care if I'm on Maps as long as I remain on Places. Right now Google has a bug that took down some listings but they'll fix it eventually and we'll be back up. The Google Places help forum never says anything about Google not allowing Escort Services and they help whenever it's needed.As for prostitution some do and some don't and we're in the don't category so please stop with the proselytizing. I guess I was mostly just wondering where the guidelines are and I guess the answer is nowhere to be seen, just word of mouth which seems pretty shoddy even for Google.The reason you get the responsibility is because in Feb when Google had another bug take all the escort service listings down I tried to re-add it on Maps and you denied it as spam. It eventually came back and was active till the latest glitch so I looked at my edits in Map maker to see if someone had messed with the listing and saw your denials from before and just started wondering where the guidelines were written.So that's all for me, if you see my listing back up please just walk on by, there's nothing forcing you to mess with it but yourself. Thanks.Regards, Debb

On Tuesday, May 29, 2012 7:16:34 PM UTC-5, blissfulight wrote:

Yes, Google is a hypocrite. Yes, Google does stupid and occasionally unethical if not outright illegal things when it comes to advertising and favoring its own products over that of others. I can't fix that or reconcile it, anymore than I can reconcile the fact that you can pay people to have sex, but you can't pay to have sex with them (at least not in the U.S.). Strange, right? Nonetheless, Google can't be seen advertising illegal services. They just can't. It opens them up to lawsuits, public pressure, political blackmail, everything. That would be one big ****storm that Google has no interest in participating in. That's just reality.

Google doesn't technically allow escort listings, but they're there, and for whatever reason, they're very difficult to remove. There's many problems with the Google Maps products--features can persist even after they've been removed (what I call ghosts or echoes). Map Maker is a little more rigorous than Places when it comes to removing spam content. Places is much more passive, relying on Report a problem, which is another Google fiasco.

Anyway, just because something is listed on the Yellow Pages or other search directories doesn't mean it should be listed on Google Places.

Google doesn't really allow sensual massage if it leads to a happy ending, and most legit massage businesses carefully omit any reference to sensual for the negative, sexual connotations that licensed massage services don't want to advertise to potential clients (and usually, the two types of clients don't want to get into any awkward situations, either, so it's in everyone's best interest to keep it separate). I don't make the rules (I'm not a Google employee or contractor). I did remove quite a bit of escort service spam at one point, and occasionally I drop in to see what else is out there, but my focus is primarily on removing locksmith spam. I am by no means active in your area (someone else is pulling down escort listings for St. Louis), so I'm a little befuddled as to why I get the responsibility for your listing. I really have no control over that.

I don't doubt what you're saying as to the authenticity of your location, but what I am saying that if the end result is a guy drops $200 on a table and one of your escorts has sex with him, then that's prostitution. You can call it an escort service or whatever, but in the end, it's still one person paying another for sex. That is 'spam'. No one is going to approve that, especially if you append Escort Service to the label. The bot does occasionally scrape websites and add escort service listings that way, but even legit businesses (funeral and police escort) are going to have a hard time adding escort service listings to Google Maps, and invariably a Google Reviewer will come along and suggest that you undo your edit and add it through Google Places, and Google Places will just say no.

What you really want is for me to agree with you, add my approval to your listing, and promise not to delete, none of which I can do. I understand the overwhelming desire to have your listing on Google Places, because that's the defacto Yellow Pages. You probably see other escort listings, and wonder how they got there, or why they never get pulled down (I wonder, too). Everyone wants in on it because Google favors it's own search results over that of others. Nonetheless, with some clever SEO strategizing, your clients will still find you. I can't tell you what that is--what little I know is probably not going to help you anyway, but if you look around I'm sure you'll find a solution to your problem. Someone else has already figured it out.

I can't see your listing because the link is bad (maybe it was already rejected?). I would tell you the same thing I'm telling you now even if I had seen it, if you offer prostitution aka escort services, it can't get approval.

Bliss is doing what he agreed to do when he volunteered here, and that is to follow Google's guidelines. I have agreed to the same thing, and so have all the RERs. I deny escort services and remove ones I find in Canada, even though they and prostitution are both legal here, because it is in the review guidelines that escort services are not allowed anywhere on the map. We are not picking on your industry; the guidelines tell us what to do for every type of business and situation. If we personally choose not to follow them for one industry, we would lose our privileges.

If you do get onto the map via Places, it is still incumbent upon us to approve your removal when someone marks you to be removed, which will happen.

As I said before, they are unfortunately not available to you; as these are reviewer guidelines available only to RERs and GRs. Among those guidelines we have a list of allowed and disallowed POIs. The list of items not allowed includes "Escort Services".. That list is linked to throughout our reviewing guidelines in places such as what can be approved, what should be removed, etc. The list is not country specific and does not reference whether the this has anything to do with the local laws; it is just cut and dry "Not Allowed" for the entire map.

If you are looking for written confirmation, this forum should serve as confirmation. The RERs are chosen partially for their participation here, so this thread has been read by many of us and none of them have disagreed with that statement that Escort Services are not allowed. In addition, Google employees monitor all the threads, but they only pipe up with their own input if we are steering your wrong or do not have the answer. The lack of a comment from a Google monitor means we are providing you the correct information. There are several other threads where this same information has been discussed and no RER or Google monitor has disputed them.

As for why the category exists, if you were to search about category issues you would be flooded with threads to read. There are categories that should be there that are missing. There are pointless categories. There are categories that disappear only to reappear a few weeks later after we raise the alarm bells. Some have not reappeared. Categories are an ongoing issue and are being worked upon, but it appears that it will be some time before the list gets fully overhauled and made current. Making it current would include eliminating categories such as Escort Services that may have been on the original list (likely obtained from an outside source), but have since been determined to not be within policy. There would also be the issue of determining how to migrate over businesses such as escort services for trucks with wide loads that should probably get a new category such as Pilot Cars.

No need to be insulting. I do not flex the truth.If I was selling sex I'd admit it because I see nothing wrong in two or more consenting adults doing whatever they wish behind closed doors.However, I'm not desirous of going to jail so I run my business on the freedom side of legal.I'm sure you can't believe it because your morals won't let you and that's fine.Regards DebbOh and if your looking for Bliss check out Horasis (enlightenment through sex with a sacred prostitute) It used to be all the rage back in ancient Greece.

On Wednesday, May 30, 2012 12:28:48 AM UTC-5, blissfulight wrote:

You posted a link. The link didn't work. You asked me to look at it. I went looking for it. I typed in Escort Service in St. Louis. I found an escort service. I deleted it. What did you think I was going to do, give you SEO advice?

I apologize for having a mind, and using it; a conscience, and applying it. A fault of mine.

The information is already available in the Places and MM guidelines. There's a specific prohibition against Escort Service in the RER guidelines (which is only available to RERs), but you'll be disappointed to read that it just reads 'Escort services are not permitted' so I'm sure you'll find some wiggle room in that statement (helps to be flexible when it comes to the truth).

Well,this thread has been entertaining to read. First laugh I've had in a while.

Just to be didactic: sensuous pertains to all physical feeling, sensual refers to specifically sexual feelings (and massage?). And this was probably trying to be a discussion of ethics, not morals, on gomez/debb/goad's part.

Cheered me up in spite of the flattish tires and defunct batteries I've been afflicted with.

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Each business listing should be judge on its own merit. Seems like blissful has some sort of personal agenda against whole escort industry.

its take more than a month for busienss owners to verify their new business via postcards. then they spend so much time/money after SEOing it. at the end MapMaker RER goes and delete businesses without even without checking its existence.

picking on whole escort industry is wrong .there is no clear guidelines where it mention that escort services are not allowed.

I hate spams as much as you guys do, I believe legit non-spamy escorts agency should stay.

George, you will get even less sympathy here. This is not a forum where we decide what should and shouldn't be allowed. The mappers and the RERs have no say in that. It is 100% Google that sets the guidelines, and they have been very clear with us. Map Maker is the master tool to edit Maps; it is used not only by volunteers but also Places and Maps staff. The guidelines for using Map Maker therefore set what can and cannot be on the Map. Places is but a feed into Maps; getting your business verified there through an automated process has no bearing on whether you are in the end permitted on the map. And complaining to us has no bearing; you are totally off base to keep accusing us of making these decisions; they come from Google.

George, you will get even less sympathy here. This is not a forum where we decide what should and shouldn't be allowed. The mappers and the RERs have no say in that. It is 100% Google that sets the guidelines, and they have been very clear with us. Map Maker is the master tool to edit Maps; it is used not only by volunteers but also Places and Maps staff. The guidelines for using Map Maker therefore set what can and cannot be on the Map. Places is but a feed into Maps; getting your business verified there through an automated process has no bearing on whether you are in the end permitted on the map. And complaining to us has no bearing; you are totally off base to keep accusing us of making these decisions; they come from Google.

George, you will get even less sympathy here. This is not a forum where we decide what should and shouldn't be allowed. The mappers and the RERs have no say in that. It is 100% Google that sets the guidelines, and they have been very clear with us. Map Maker is the master tool to edit Maps; it is used not only by volunteers but also Places and Maps staff. The guidelines for using Map Maker therefore set what can and cannot be on the Map. Places is but a feed into Maps; getting your business verified there through an automated process has no bearing on whether you are in the end permitted on the map. And complaining to us has no bearing; you are totally off base to keep accusing us of making these decisions; they come from Google.

George, you will get even less sympathy here. This is not a forum where we decide what should and shouldn't be allowed. The mappers and the RERs have no say in that. It is 100% Google that sets the guidelines, and they have been very clear with us. Map Maker is the master tool to edit Maps; it is used not only by volunteers but also Places and Maps staff. The guidelines for using Map Maker therefore set what can and cannot be on the Map. Places is but a feed into Maps; getting your business verified there through an automated process has no bearing on whether you are in the end permitted on the map. And complaining to us has no bearing; you are totally off base to keep accusing us of making these decisions; they come from Google.

Map Maker may not be publicly available in the UK, but as I keep trying to stress, it is Google's policy and wishes happening here. If you check all three, it seems that either Maps or Places employees have taken these down. Now perhaps you'll understand that this is not some rogue action on some volunteers' part; it is Google themselves doing it and instructing us to do the same.

However, I have seen POIs deleted in 2007 and 2008 by employees with the note "Escorts are not allowed on the map." I have also seen GR's who currently spend most of their editing time deleting escorts.

This has nothing to do with MapMaker. You are posting a link to a Google+ Local thread.

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The link you provided just states escort services aren't allowed because they're considered non fixed locations It does not say anything about spam.From Jade's statement escort services are permitted on + Local. With the new service area business. blocked address rule they won't show on MM so you should not be going to hunt them down on +Local and deleting them through the edit button.The rules should be followed fairly by all and not taken out of context.

I'm afraid Jade is doing you a disservice by posting that anna. Places is just one of many feeds into Maps and only contributes to a certain portion of the map.. On Map Maker we edit the entire map, not just a certain portion. When we are working in Map Maker, there is no indication that the item came from Places, and there is also no indication whether it is claimed or not. Rather, all escort services are spam as per Google employees, transient or not. So it will been seen as such, hundreds and even thousands

Map Maker is also where we approve or deny any changes made to a Places entry by a non-owner. So this is also where Jade's statement will result in a lot of frustration, because when you add an escort service your competitor can the same day simply mark it to be deleted and it will appear in our review queues. By the review guidelines we have no options other than approve. As volunteers, RERs have the option to skip reviews, but then the deletion will be approved within hours by a Google Reviewer, so there is little point in skipping them.

In the end, though, we don't have much of an impact here; almost all the escort services added from within Places or any other source are deleted by Maps employees, not the volunteers.

If things are prohibited then they're spam/abuse by virtue of being a prohibited feature. Since Escort Services aren't welcome on the Map they're subject to be deleted from Map as spam/abuse. The same goes for features that have no physical business presence and/or PO Box address, and others.

Hi Flash,So if I add an escort service, address hidden for service area business will it show on Map Maker? Same scenario and no one deletes it on Placeswill it ever show up on Map Maker? I'm not clutching at straws just trying to get a deep understanding of how all the components work.And finally do you have any info on why this has become such a big deal? I just want to have my little locally owned and well run service appear on Places 'cause that's the only way to be seen above Backpage which in my humble opinion is the scum of the earth.Thanks for your reasoned reply.Regards, Anna

The simple answer is yes, if you add something via Google+ Local (G+L), it will show on Map Maker. Maps is made up of many different data sources, and each business listing on it is also an amalgamation of many sources, with Places being just one source. Map Maker is the overall tool used to edit the final map product; it is used by employees to edit the entire world and volunteers to edit those areas that have been publicly opened. We have criteria we work off of to ensure uniformity, and one of the criteria is no escort services. So as it is encountered, it is deleted.

I think that now that Places has transitioned to Google+ Local, they may not be aware of all the criteria of G+. The G+ policies state that certain services may not be added through verifying on local G+ pages, and uses escort services as the example of one that would not be allowed.

As for the "big deal", as close as we've been able to figure out, there were numerous escort services that were still up on the map after being deleted, and they are finally being taken down. They were only up due to a glitch, and it seems that Google within the last month or so has figured out that glitch that was allowing it, and now has teams of Google employees removing those features which should have disappeared when they were initially deleted.

Thanks Flash. I too read the G+ policy and figured that would put an end to the whole question if escort services weren't allowed to verify.However it does say "may" and they are still being verified. Dealing with Google is makeing me pull my hair out! So I guess it's just a game of cat and mouse, verify a page hope it stays up for awhile and then repeat when it's deleted or just try SEO to make it high enough on organic to be seen. I just think it's a crying shame that Backpage is getting top placement everywhere local escort services are gone as that is where the trafficking is taking place. Oh well enough hand wringing. Thanks again for the explanation.Cheers, Anna

I've had some experience writing policies for a similar sized company. "May" is usually a word used to cover yourself when you mean "will" but don't want people screaming "You missed this one, you promised you'd do it to all".

I also read that to mean there might be some things other than escort services that fit in the regulated good category that they will allow.