i hesitate to say this in mixed company, but sherlock holmes is a primate.

so am i (i know -- tmi).

best to get it all out in the open.

cheers --

. aka. fili orc-enshield +++++++++++++++++++ the scene, as i understand it, is exceptionally well-written. fili (in sort of a callback to the scene with the eagles), calls out "thorRIIIIIIN!!!" just as he sees the pale orc veer in for the kill. he picks up the severed arm of an orc which is lying on the ground, swings it up in desperation, effectively blocking the pale orc's blow. and thus, forever after, fili is known as "fili orc-enshield."

this earns him deep respect from his hard-to-please uncle. as well as a hug. kili wipes his boots on the pale orc's glory box. -- maciliel

. aka. fili orc-enshield +++++++++++++++++++ the scene, as i understand it, is exceptionally well-written. fili (in sort of a callback to the scene with the eagles), calls out "thorRIIIIIIN!!!" just as he sees the pale orc veer in for the kill. he picks up the severed arm of an orc which is lying on the ground, swings it up in desperation, effectively blocking the pale orc's blow. and thus, forever after, fili is known as "fili orc-enshield."

this earns him deep respect from his hard-to-please uncle. as well as a hug. kili wipes his boots on the pale orc's glory box. -- maciliel

Agreed. The BLUEPRINT for Smaug should be the famed Tolkien drawing.
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Obviously it will have its reality enhanced by Alan Lee and Howe, and the design team, as it should be. The wings should be made of proper size to support that body. But none of this bunk about no known vertabrae being a hectopedal etc. etc. No known vertebrae breathes fire either, but they made that work.

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about Smaug... saying he had 4 legs and wings. So there should be no issue with his physical design. I hope but Hollywood is paying for Smaug so we might end up with some form of Harry Potter style dragon instead but I hope not.

"Hear me, hounds of Sauron, Gandalf is here! Fly if you value your foul skins, I will shrivel you from tail to snout if you step within this circle!"

"Do not be to eager to deal out death in judgement. Even the very wise cannot see all ends."

Largest land MAMMAL. Bing distinction. Many saurians were much larger.
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Also, something I've been wondering is about the Oliphaunts. I've heard people say that in real life they would never be able to be that size and survive because of their weight. So I've always been curious to know if that's true.

the largest land animal which ever existed is (i believe) the indricotherium.

my friend, wikipedia, says that it stood 16 feet high at the shoulder...

i've made mention of much larger creatures upthread (apatasaur, brachiosaur, etc.), so i'm definitely aware there are larger animals.

apologies for any confusion.

cheers --

. aka. fili orc-enshield +++++++++++++++++++ the scene, as i understand it, is exceptionally well-written. fili (in sort of a callback to the scene with the eagles), calls out "thorRIIIIIIN!!!" just as he sees the pale orc veer in for the kill. he picks up the severed arm of an orc which is lying on the ground, swings it up in desperation, effectively blocking the pale orc's blow. and thus, forever after, fili is known as "fili orc-enshield."

this earns him deep respect from his hard-to-please uncle. as well as a hug. kili wipes his boots on the pale orc's glory box. -- maciliel

It's an animated movie from the 80s made by Rankin-Bass, who also did the Hobbit cartoon. It delves into dragon biology in a very creative way.

According to the movie, dragon fire and flight are connected. Their bellies produce gases that cause them to partly inflate like a blimp. An organ in their mouth produces electricity which ignites the gas, thus producing fiery breath. They belch flame to deflate and float back down to earth. The wings are mostly for steering and being aerodynamic. The movie also claims that they sleep in hoards of gold since their breath ignites other forms of bedding.

I always loved this explanation of how dragons work. It's semi-plausible without losing the sense of wonder needed for fantasy. I doubt the Hobbit movies will follow this approach for Smaug but it certainly would explain his desire for gold and how such an enormous creature would be able to fly.

'tho i am now getting visions of smaug trussed up like a macy's day parade float, gently rising aloft until he lets out a pyrotechnic burp, causing him to deflate and sink a little.

funny, as i've been thinking about a biological explanation of fire-breathing, i was thinking in this direction as well. without the need to deflate.

cheers --

. aka. fili orc-enshield +++++++++++++++++++ the scene, as i understand it, is exceptionally well-written. fili (in sort of a callback to the scene with the eagles), calls out "thorRIIIIIIN!!!" just as he sees the pale orc veer in for the kill. he picks up the severed arm of an orc which is lying on the ground, swings it up in desperation, effectively blocking the pale orc's blow. and thus, forever after, fili is known as "fili orc-enshield."

this earns him deep respect from his hard-to-please uncle. as well as a hug. kili wipes his boots on the pale orc's glory box. -- maciliel