As we draw nearer the draft -- Thursday, April 26, 2012 ... ends Saturday, April 28, 2012 -- I'm finally beginning to pick up some chatter about who the Texans are looking at with their 26th pick...

Post any rumors here.

Stephanie Stradley ‏ @StephStradley Reply Retweet Favorite · Open
Hm. RT @MJ4Sports: @RussLande is with us right now...hearing that Texans are interested in G Amini Silatolu from Midwestern State at 26

(Lande write for The Sporting News)

Section516

04-19-2012, 10:56 AM

As we draw nearer the draft -- Thursday, April 26, 2012 ... ends Saturday, April 28, 2012 -- I'm finally beginning to pick up some chatter about who the Texans are looking at with their 26th pick...

Post any rumors here.

Stephanie Stradley ‏ @StephStradley Reply Retweet Favorite · Open
Hm. RT @MJ4Sports: @RussLande is with us right now...hearing that Texans are interested in G Amini Silatolu from Midwestern State at 26

(Lande write for The Sporting News)

Power blocker, slow feet. hmm.

Playoffs

04-19-2012, 11:01 AM

Power blocker, slow feet. hmm.Silatolu really looked the part at The Combine ... I was impressed. Didn't know if he was a ZBS candidate, was all.

Señor Stan

04-19-2012, 11:01 AM

As we draw nearer the draft -- Thursday, April 26, 2012 ... ends Saturday, April 28, 2012 -- I'm finally beginning to pick up some chatter about who the Texans are looking at with their 26th pick...

Post any rumors here.

Stephanie Stradley ‏ @StephStradley Reply Retweet Favorite · Open
Hm. RT @MJ4Sports: @RussLande is with us right now...hearing that Texans are interested in G Amini Silatolu from Midwestern State at 26

(Lande write for The Sporting News)

Geez...Hope that is not at 26...in the 2nd round maybe...after a couple trade downs...

VTexan

04-19-2012, 11:38 AM

Splash!!

wolf123

04-19-2012, 03:56 PM

A guard with a 1st round pick... Stupid:kubepalm:

mussop

04-19-2012, 06:10 PM

A guard with a 1st round pick... Stupid:kubepalm:

it's a late first round. It's not like we are picking top 15. If he can come in and start right away it's well worth it.

Wolf6151

04-19-2012, 07:01 PM

I don't know if we pick an OG in the 1st, but if we did wouldn't that be a strong indicator that Caldwell is done for the Texans.

TimeKiller

04-19-2012, 07:06 PM

That's a terrible smoke screen, even for the Texans...

aussie_texan

04-19-2012, 09:03 PM

They were looking at j.martin OT as well so who knows. Our texans love suprising us

Lucky

04-19-2012, 10:21 PM

Here's a video of Silatolu (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5y1vMglvFlE). He's just mauling these poor kids.

He uses a club move that drops guys to the ground. Legal? I didn't flags. I wish he could have played in an all star game against the major college guys. You have to have a lot of faith in your scouting department to pull the trigger on Division II lineman in the 1st round.

wolf123

04-19-2012, 10:39 PM

it's a late first round. It's not like we are picking top 15. If he can come in and start right away it's well worth it.

You don't use a premium pick on a position thats easy to find contributors at. Texans could find potential impact players at WR, OLB, TE with the pick. The difference between a marginal player at guard and a Elite player is nothing.

Rey

04-19-2012, 10:46 PM

You don't use a premium pick on a position thats easy to find contributors at. Texans could find potential impact players at WR, OLB, TE with the pick. The difference between a marginal player at guard and a Elite player is nothing.

Disagree with that. Elite interior linemen help the run game a lot especially against upper echelon d linemen and in short yardage.

They may not make as big of an impact as some other positions, but they still can make a big impact none the less.

Playoffs

04-19-2012, 10:57 PM

Here's a video of Silatolu (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5y1vMglvFlE). He's just mauling these poor kids.I don't think I've ever seen that many pancakes. I like the way he's a little bit pissed off all the time.

Considering our losses, I'm down with OL in 1st round and WR in 2nd or 3rd and/or 4th. I hate passing on McClellin, but news that he's already had 3 concussions is a bit concerning.

wolf123

04-19-2012, 10:59 PM

Disagree with that. Elite interior linemen help the run game a lot especially against upper echelon d linemen and in short yardage.

They may not make as big of an impact as some other positions, but they still can make a big impact none the less.

There have been several statistical analysis that prove the difference between Elite Guards and their replacements is minimal. Two of the best guards ever for the Texans have been cheap free agent pickups.

Rey

04-19-2012, 11:17 PM

There have been several statistical analysis that prove the difference between Elite Guards and their replacements is minimal. Two of the best guards ever for the Texans have been cheap free agent pickups.

If that were the case no one would pay top tier guards and they'd all go late like kickers and full backs.

I hear what you're saying but I disagree that top tier or elite guards don't make huge impacts.

I would not trade up for any of these guards, but i would take one in the first or second if they are bpa.

wolf123

04-19-2012, 11:34 PM

If that were the case no one would pay top tier guards and they'd all go late like kickers and full backs.

I hear what you're saying but I disagree that top tier or elite guards don't make huge impacts.

I would not trade up for any of these guards, but i would take one in the first or second if they are bpa.

The stats show other wise, and its the reason GM's don't draft guards often in the 1st round. Both starting guards last year were excellent and they were brought in for cheap. If your theory is true then who are the Elite Guards that were drafted in the last 5 years that made such an impact?

Rey

04-19-2012, 11:50 PM

The stats show other wise, and its the reason GM's don't draft guards often in the 1st round. Both starting guards last year were excellent and they were brought in for cheap. If your theory is true then who are the Elite Guards that were drafted in the last 5 years that made such an impact?

I didn't say you have to draft guards in the first round to find elite ones or very good ones. That is you making an assumption.

What I said is that Elite or very good guards make a significant impact on the teams they are on. I didn't specify where they have to come from.

If a team feels they have the opportunity at a top tier or possibly elite guard in the first round you take him.

And I don't care what "the stats say".

And I'm not sure what your point is with the last 5 years comment.

Where are all the elite anything that was drafted in the last five years? There aren't very many "elite" players to begin with. That's what makes them elite.

steelbtexan

04-19-2012, 11:55 PM

I smell a smokescreen

Rey

04-20-2012, 12:02 AM

I smell a smokescreen

Could be.

Maybe they are trying to keep a team from trading ahead of them and taking the guy they really want.

Avoid all eye contact and smiles and no one will know your secret crush. Throwing out someone elses name could help with that.

wolf123

04-20-2012, 12:38 AM

I didn't say you have to draft guards in the first round to find elite ones or very good ones. That is you making an assumption.

What I said is that Elite or very good guards make a significant impact on the teams they are on. I didn't specify where they have to come from.

If a team feels they have the opportunity at a top tier or possibly elite guard in the first round you take him.

And I don't care what "the stats say".

And I'm not sure what your point is with the last 5 years comment.

Where are all the elite anything that was drafted in the last five years? There aren't very many "elite" players to begin with. That's what makes them elite.

My point is that you don't use a Premium pick on a low impact position. If the guard position is such a huge impact position and so important then GM's would place a high value on it and you would see more teams pick a guard in the 1st round. They don't because they know they can find someone of equal talent in free agency, or later in the draft.

Why waste a first round pick on a Guard when the Texans have found two excellent ones using very little resources? Its all about using your resources in the most efficient manor.

Danny Watkins, Ben Grubbs and Davin Joseph have were all 1st round picks and neither of them were as good as Mike Brisel, Wade Smith or countless others.

beerlover

04-20-2012, 01:10 AM

My point is that you don't use a Premium pick on a low impact position. If the guard position is such a huge impact position and so important then GM's would place a high value on it and you would see more teams pick a guard in the 1st round. They don't because they know they can find someone of equal talent in free agency, or later in the draft.

Why waste a first round pick on a Guard when the Texans have found two excellent ones using very little resources? Its all about using your resources in the most efficient manor.

Danny Watkins, Ben Grubbs and Davin Joseph have were all 1st round picks and neither of them were as good as Mike Brisel, Wade Smith or countless others.

end of 1st rd. is where Superbowl winners & contenders build their OL's, it's a proven recipe for success.

Lucky

04-20-2012, 07:10 AM

....Ben Grubbs and Davin Joseph have were all 1st round picks and neither of them were as good as Mike Brisel, Wade Smith or countless others.
I don't think you would get any of the 32 NFL teams to agree with your assessment. Look at the contracts they received in free agency (Joseph $19 million guaranteed, Grubbs $16 million guaranteed).

And do we know for a fact that Silatolu is being looked at as a Guard? He's only played LT and he could be viewed as a RT by the Texans. PFW (http://www.profootballweekly.com/prospects/rankings/?position=) has given Silatolu a 6.15 rating (top 20 in the draft), the same as Georgia OT/OG Cordy Glenn. I don't think he's the reach most here think he is.

Rey

04-20-2012, 08:01 AM

My point is that you don't use a Premium pick on a low impact position. If the guard position is such a huge impact position and so important then GM's would place a high value on it and you would see more teams pick a guard in the 1st round. They don't because they know they can find someone of equal talent in free agency, or later in the draft.

Why waste a first round pick on a Guard when the Texans have found two excellent ones using very little resources? Its all about using your resources in the most efficient manor.

Danny Watkins, Ben Grubbs and Davin Joseph have were all 1st round picks and neither of them were as good as Mike Brisel, Wade Smith or countless others.

You are acting like guards are treated like kickers and full backs.

Never being picked in the first round is not the same as not as often.

My point stands. Guards are picked in the first round fairly regularly and beyond that you can look at the free agent contracts they receive to realize that teams aren't just getting their guards off the scrap heap. Yes brisel was not a highly rated player, but neither was foster. I think the fact that you keep bringing that back up just shows you are missing my point.

I'm not saying that you HAVE to spend a first to find good guards. What I'm saying is that dominant guards are big assets to teams and they are big enough assets to take in the first round if you deem the guy to be good enough.

Playoffs

04-20-2012, 09:55 AM

My point is that you don't use a Premium pick on a ...guard.Mike Munchak disagrees.

Tell it to the draftniks at Rotoworld, who are mocking Silatolu to Detroit @23: http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1939100#post1939100.

Scouts saying he's better than Iupati, using names like Larry Allen. Scored a 20 on the Wonderlic.

wolf123

04-20-2012, 10:06 AM

Mike Munchak disagrees.

Tell it to the draftniks at Rotoworld, who are mocking Silatolu to Detroit @23: http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1939100#post1939100.

Charlie Casserly, Mike lombardi, Brian Billick, Mike Mayock and Mike tomlin have all said the same thing I've been saying. Guards are no longer a top priority to teams. The way the NFL is changing you have to use premium resources on tackles and centers but guards you can find them much easier and without using top resources.

Statistically, its been shown that the difference between Elite guards and their replacements has been minimal. So why use your top pick on a player who will only be a slight upgrade over anyone else?

Under Kubiak the Texans have shown the ability to use limited resources and produce good interior linemen. Because of this they've been able to use premium picks on impact positions. Tackle, DE, OLB, etc.

All i'm saying is that the Texans need to use their resources in the best way possible and I don't believe taking a guard in the 1st is doing that.

wolf123

04-20-2012, 10:08 AM

You are acting like guards are treated like kickers and full backs.

Never being picked in the first round is not the same as not as often.

My point stands. Guards are picked in the first round fairly regularly and beyond that you can look at the free agent contracts they receive to realize that teams aren't just getting their guards off the scrap heap. Yes brisel was not a highly rated player, but neither was foster. I think the fact that you keep bringing that back up just shows you are missing my point.

I'm not saying that you HAVE to spend a first to find good guards. What I'm saying is that dominant guards are big assets to teams and they are big enough assets to take in the first round if you deem the guy to be good enough.

Point taken, I just want us to use our first rounder on a more impact position.

Playoffs

04-20-2012, 10:25 AM

Charlie Casserly, Mike lombardi, Brian Billick, Mike Mayock and Mike tomlin have all said the same thing I've been saying. Guards are no longer a top priority to teams.Good. Then hopefully Stanford's Dave DeCastro G falls to us at 26, although Casserly has him mocked at 21 (first round).

El Tejano

04-20-2012, 01:25 PM

I smell a smoke screen to try and get someone to trade with us so we move out of the first round

IDEXAN

04-20-2012, 02:50 PM

I don't know if we pick an OG in the 1st, but if we did wouldn't that be a strong indicator that Caldwell is done for the Texans.
And that's exactly why we won't pick a guard in the first round, because the
guy who's "job it is to lose" the starting RG spot is a third-round pick with some starting experience and and a guy who was in a healthy competition with Breisel in 2010 for that job until he (Caldwell) had high-ankle issues. Our other guard is another NFL vet who we payed very highly for in FA a couple years ago.
Zone-Blocking teams in general and specifically the Texans don't use high-draft picks on guards or centers. There is no way we draft a guard with our top pick, even if WR and rush-LB wern't more critical needs right now, which they most certainly are.
Wake up people, the highest pick we'd use on a guard would maybe be a third-rounder.

WolverineFan

04-20-2012, 05:52 PM

You don't use a premium pick on a position thats easy to find contributors at. Texans could find potential impact players at WR, OLB, TE with the pick. The difference between a marginal player at guard and a Elite player is nothing.

I think the Cowboys (Larry Allen) would disagree with you as would the Seahawks (Steve Hutchinson). I'm sure Emmitt Smith and Shaun Alexander would also have a thing or two to say.

wolf123

04-20-2012, 07:45 PM

I think the Cowboys (Larry Allen) would disagree with you as would the Seahawks (Steve Hutchinson). I'm sure Emmitt Smith and Shaun Alexander would also have a thing or two to say.

The article and "stats" that I mentioned were in regards to Steve Hutchinson and the minimal difference between him and his replacement.

Yes, I'm sure Shaun Alexanders had nothing to do with him being over 30 and breaking his foot walking...:spin:

Playoffs

04-20-2012, 08:41 PM

Mike Lombardi just mocked an OG in the first round at pick #13.

amazing80

04-20-2012, 10:13 PM

the Texans HAVE NEVER drafted a first round player that they brought in for a workout or spent extra time with, this is nothing but a rumor

Also, he is not a first round talent, he would be lucky to be drafted in round 2.....so if we trade back out of round 2 and grab him high in round 3, then MAYBE I would be ok with it, but I doubt we draft him, just kicking the tires....

Lucky

04-21-2012, 10:19 AM

the Texans HAVE NEVER drafted a first round player that they brought in for a workout or spent extra time with, this is nothing but a rumor
The Texans brought in Mario for an interview prior to the draft. Besides, this is about a rumored interest, not a workout. Furthermore, teams cannot bring in prospects for workouts. They can schedule a workout at the prospect's college, or near his hometown.

Also, he is not a first round talent, he would be lucky to be drafted in round 2.....
Silatolu has been linked to several teams drafting in the bottom third of the first round. Lions, Patriots, and Niners (besides the Texans). Pro Football Weekly has him ranked in their top 20. It would surprise few if Silatolu were drafted in the 1st round.

Playoffs

04-21-2012, 12:09 PM

...It would surprise few if Silatolu were drafted in the 1st round.Yep. Early mocks tend to discount Offensive Linemen every year, but they start to creep into the first round as draft day approaches. I think we saw 3 OL in early mocks, and I'm looking for 6-7 to go in the first round this year.

mussop

04-21-2012, 07:39 PM

And that's exactly why we won't pick a guard in the first round, because the
guy who's "job it is to lose" the starting RG spot is a third-round pick with some starting experience and and a guy who was in a healthy competition with Breisel in 2010 for that job until he (Caldwell) had high-ankle issues. Our other guard is another NFL vet who we payed very highly for in FA a couple years ago.
Zone-Blocking teams in general and specifically the Texans don't use high-draft picks on guards or centers. There is no way we draft a guard with our top pick, even if WR and rush-LB wern't more critical needs right now, which they most certainly are.
Wake up people, the highest pick we'd use on a guard would maybe be a third-rounder.

Wake up yourself. Soli is a LT projected to OG in the NFL. Duane Brown was a LT projected to play OG in the NFL.

Caldwell is injured a lot and sucks. He should of never been drafted for this scheme. Did you watch him last year when Briesel went out? Must not of if you are ok with him protecting our fragile QB and opening holes for Foster.

mussop

04-21-2012, 07:43 PM

even if WR and rush-LB wern't more critical needs right now, which they most certainly are.

Stop being a sheep. This is not true! Just because it's what the lazy media keeps regurgitating does not make it so.

IDEXAN

04-22-2012, 07:31 AM

Wake up yourself. Soli is a LT projected to OG in the NFL. Duane Brown was a LT projected to play OG in the NFL.

Caldwell is injured a lot and sucks. He should of never been drafted for this scheme. Did you watch him last year when Briesel went out? Must not of if you are ok with him protecting our fragile QB and opening holes for Foster.
Duane Brown was the hand-picked choice of ZBS guru Alex Gibbs to be the Texans' LT, and it's the only position he was "projected" to play for the Texans and it's the only position he has in fact played here, except that he did share some reps early on in his career with vet Ephraim Salaam. But Brown was an extremely athletic, converted TE who also had very good "length", something that Solit doesn't have which is a major reason he's expected to play inside in the NFL. And in addition Soli, unlike Brown, played no significant competition since he was at unheard of Midwestern State, which incidentally is actually in the state of Texas.
Except for Brown, the Texans have never drafted an OLineman higher than the 3rd round during the Smith/Kubiak regime, and don't look for them to do it this year either unless they do surprise us with the pick of a tackle who would actually play tackle like perhaps Stanfords Jonathon Martin. If I'm wrong I'll return to this thread to admit it, but if I'm right, well expect me to be doing some gloating later next week.
But I do admit to being curious about this kid out of Midwestern State, where he goes, and how highly he's drafted ? Some teams do place a very high value on interior offensive lineman, but just not the Texans.

Lucky

04-22-2012, 09:33 AM

But Brown was an extremely athletic, converted TE who also had very good "length", something that Solit doesn't have which is a major reason he's expected to play inside in the NFL.
There's a 1/2" difference between Brown (6'4-1/8") and Silatolu (6'3-5/8").

pirbroke

04-22-2012, 10:22 AM

Ya'll know, I feel I have had a good feel on who the Texans would target in the first two rounds of the draft just about every year, ( missed badly on the watt pick though ). but this year seems extra tough, Even if I am sure they go WR in first I have no clue which one even if all the good ones fall to us. Is Wright even on their board due to his size? This is going to be a fun draft to watch this year, I wouldn't be surprised one bit if the first round pick I say who, and start the google keys to look him up. One thing for sure I won't question the picks, with the two coaches track record we can't miss. Looking forward to end of week.

IDEXAN

04-22-2012, 10:32 AM

There's a 1/2" difference between Brown (6'4-1/8") and Silatolu (6'3-5/8").
• Doesn't have the preferred arm length (32-inches)
http://www.draftcountdown.com/ScoutingReports/OG/Amini-Silatolu.php
**********************************
Actually length refers more to arm-length than height in this context.
Some OLinemen can overcome relatively short arm-length and make it in the NFL as OTs, sometimes even left tackles, but it's thought to be a definite handicap when being out on an island one-on-one vs a speed rusher.

Thorn

04-22-2012, 10:37 AM

Games are won and lost at the line. I have no problem taking linemen (of any flavor) in the first round.

Playoffs

04-22-2012, 11:20 AM

Duane Brown was the hand-picked choice of ZBS guru Alex Gibbs to be the Texans' LT..."Hand picked", perhaps, but Brown was also that last OT left on the board -- we were holding our breath. Texans would have taken Long, Clady, Williams, Albert, and maybe Otah ahead of Brown if offered the chance. Gibbs was asked for and gave his opinion that Brown could get it done in the ZBS.

Understand that the outsized importance of LTs has gone away in this current NFL. Deep drops and long developing routes w/QB in pocket are uncommon now.

IDEXAN

04-22-2012, 12:10 PM

Understand that the outsized importance of LTs has gone away in this current NFL.
I would argue that they're more important and more valuable than ever. If you doubt that, then just watch and see the kind of contract the Texans offer Duane in coming months.

mussop

04-22-2012, 12:24 PM

Duane Brown was the hand-picked choice of ZBS guru Alex Gibbs to be the Texans' LT, and it's the only position he was "projected" to play for the Texans and it's the only position he has in fact played here, except that he did share some reps early on in his career with vet Ephraim Salaam. But Brown was an extremely athletic, converted TE who also had very good "length", something that Solit doesn't have which is a major reason he's expected to play inside in the NFL. And in addition Soli, unlike Brown, played no significant competition since he was at unheard of Midwestern State, which incidentally is actually in the state of Texas.
Except for Brown, the Texans have never drafted an OLineman higher than the 3rd round during the Smith/Kubiak regime, and don't look for them to do it this year either unless they do surprise us with the pick of a tackle who would actually play tackle like perhaps Stanfords Jonathon Martin. If I'm wrong I'll return to this thread to admit it, but if I'm right, well expect me to be doing some gloating later next week.
But I do admit to being curious about this kid out of Midwestern State, where he goes, and how highly he's drafted ? Some teams do place a very high value on interior offensive lineman, but just not the Texans.

Brown was widely considered a player that would have to move inside by most draft experts just like Silatolu. Just like in the case of Brown the Texans may consider him a T prospect. Also the reason he is projected to move inside has nothing to do with his athleticism. His scouting report is that he is VERY athletic. The reason people say he needs to move inside is because of his lack of experience going against top competition.

You can gloat all you want but why? What is it exactly you will be gloating about? No one is saying he is defiantly the pick. No one that I have seen anyway. My response was that you are wrong about WR and OLB being our TOP PRIORITY'S in this draft. Which you are dead wrong about regardless of who we draft.

mussop

04-22-2012, 01:03 PM

• Doesn't have the preferred arm length (32-inches)
http://www.draftcountdown.com/ScoutingReports/OG/Amini-Silatolu.php
**********************************
Actually length refers more to arm-length than height in this context.
Some OLinemen can overcome relatively short arm-length and make it in the NFL as OTs, sometimes even left tackles, but it's thought to be a definite handicap when being out on an island one-on-one vs a speed rusher.

They are wrong. His arm length is 33. Still not what you would want in an OT but still wrong.

Rey

04-22-2012, 02:30 PM

I just watched some of Silatolu...

I think he can play Tackle in the NFL because of 1) his strength and 2) he has incredible feet

I've mocked Zeitler to us in the first round, but I can get on board with a Silatolu pick. He is not as sound technique wise as Zeitler, but he is the superior athlete, no doubt.

I could care less about him rag dolling all those players (although that is somewhat impressive), but if you look at his feet and his agility it's what sold me on him. His feet are amazing....

I think technique wise he leans too much at times in pass pro and that is probably because he doesn't have the longest arms, but I think that is correctable. I think as a guard though, he could come in and take a starting spot from day 1. As a RT, I think he'd have a bit of a learning curnve and I think Butler would still be the starter for this upcoming season at least....(But at the same time I can't say I'd be completely shocked if Silatolu came in and started there either)

So yeah...Add Silatolu to the list of guys I'd be pumped about us taking.

IDEXAN

04-22-2012, 04:24 PM

I just watched some of Silatolu...

I think he can play Tackle in the NFL because of 1) his strength and 2) he has incredible feet

And that would be based upon tape you saw where he dominated some stiff from Tarleton State or maybe Angelo State ? Or perhaps it was some Dlineman he blew up who was playing on that perennial gridiron powerhouse, Incarnate Word ? In case you don't recognize all of those names, that's a few of the schools that were on Midwestern State 2011 football schedule.

Pauline also reports that "the other team showing a lot of interest" in Fleener is the 49ers, who draft 30th. Fleener would give Houston an upgrade on Joel Dreessen as a No. 2 tight end. He'd do the same over Delanie Walker in San Francisco, although Walker is a far superior blocker. Fleener doesn't block. Apr 23 - 11:35 AM

Pauline also reports that "the other team showing a lot of interest" in Fleener is the 49ers, who draft 30th. Fleener would give Houston an upgrade on Joel Dreessen as a No. 2 tight end. He'd do the same over Delanie Walker in San Francisco, although Walker is a far superior blocker. Fleener doesn't block. Apr 23 - 11:35 AM

http://www.rotoworld.com/player/nfl/7418/coby-fleener

TE baby!!

MistaRed

04-23-2012, 12:40 PM

If fleener is the pick I'd be disappointed. Especially since scouts say he doesn't block.

El Tejano

04-23-2012, 01:02 PM

If fleener is the pick I'd be disappointed. Especially since scouts say he doesn't block.

Just remember that everyone is lying right now and Texans could be trying to see if San Fran would trade up with them.

MistaRed

04-23-2012, 01:10 PM

Just remember that everyone is lying right now and Texans could be trying to see if San Fran would trade up with them.

True. Have to look at all options during the draft.

El Tejano

04-23-2012, 01:13 PM

True. Have to look at all options during the draft.

In fact they probably are going to throw out more info about how Dreessen led our team in TDs last year and now we will have a huge drop off in that production and they'll even talk about how our offense uses two TE sets and Kubiak loves him some TE.

Rey

04-23-2012, 02:30 PM

And that would be based upon tape you saw where he dominated some stiff from Tarleton State or maybe Angelo State ? Or perhaps it was some Dlineman he blew up who was playing on that perennial gridiron powerhouse, Incarnate Word ? In case you don't recognize all of those names, that's a few of the schools that were on Midwestern State 2011 football schedule.

Did you read my post or did you just go into "smartazz mode"?

I specifically said that I could care less about him rag dolling people. I specifically mentioned two traits that have nothing to do with competition which are how well he moves his feet and his srength.

Why don't you email this post to the NFL scouts that are evaluating him from playing the same teams.

As a matter of fact, just walk down to Reliant and shove it in Rick Smith's mailbox. I'm pretty sure he'd appreciate your deep insight.

pirbroke

04-23-2012, 04:18 PM

If fleener is the pick I'd be disappointed. Especially since scouts say he doesn't block.

how bad a blocker could a 6'6" 247 player be? he does not need to pancake, just hold his own I would think. I would be ok with this pick myself.

Rey

04-23-2012, 04:29 PM

how bad a blocker could a 6'6" 247 player be?

If he doesn't have footwork and high effort he could be terrible.

I don't know if Fleener is a bad blocker or not and I really don't even care. Honestly, I don't think his receiving skills are first round worthy.

V3rm0nt3r

04-24-2012, 12:14 AM

The stats show other wise, and its the reason GM's don't draft guards often in the 1st round. Both starting guards last year were excellent and they were brought in for cheap. If your theory is true then who are the Elite Guards that were drafted in the last 5 years that made such an impact?

the statistics may be there but if you're in a 4th and short situation would you rather run behind Wade Smith or Jahri Evans?

And Josh Sitton (Green Bay, drafted in 4th round of 2008 draft) put together a fantastic season last year despite being snubbed from the pro-bowl.

Porky

04-24-2012, 10:19 AM

I don't see a G or TE in rd 1. I really don't. Having said that, I'm not going to throw a hissy fit if Fleener or any of the G or T are picked. We need good football players that are playmakers on either side of the ball.

Thinking it over though, a case could be made that Fleener could add just as much to the pass game as any of the WR taken at that spot. You could still come back around rd 3 and get a WR that you can groom as a Walter replacement...and perhaps get your AJ replacement in the next draft or two.

I could imagine a double TE set with Fleener and OD who can both run the seam and present major matchup trouble. I see Fleener as a big WR with speed more than a traditional TE. I mean you have a guy at 6-6 250lbs, who can run a 4.5. Adding that kind of athletic ability would be intriging. Call him a TE and make fun all you want of Kubes love affair with TE, but as a pass catcher, I like it the more I think of it. Then you can always flare out our vaunted RB who is one of the best out of the backfield...then you can still have AJ and WR2 (whomever that ends up being) in the pattern as well.

That is one hell of a lot of weapons at Matt's disposal so I'm not sure it's as far fletched as it appears. Having said that, I still view it as a longshot.

The last couple of weeks I have been thinking more and more that they are going OLB there at 26 (assuming no trade down). Curry, Branch, McCellin are a handful of names that I think could be there and could be our pick.

XI CMURDER IX

04-24-2012, 03:26 PM

Here's a video of Silatolu (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5y1vMglvFlE). He's just mauling these poor kids.

He uses a club move that drops guys to the ground. Legal? I didn't flags. I wish he could have played in an all star game against the major college guys. You have to have a lot of faith in your scouting department to pull the trigger on Division II lineman in the 1st round.

Nice video, and I really like the athleticism he shows. Especially when pulling on a run play and being able to run downfield and block.

The thing that really stands out though is the fact that on every one of those plays the whole offensive line dominated. Which kind of makes me think they are either full of pro-caliber offensive linemen, or the defenses they faced weren't so good.

Goldensilence

04-24-2012, 10:15 PM

I don't see a G or TE in rd 1. I really don't. Having said that, I'm not going to throw a hissy fit if Fleener or any of the G or T are picked. We need good football players that are playmakers on either side of the ball.

Thinking it over though, a case could be made that Fleener could add just as much to the pass game as any of the WR taken at that spot. You could still come back around rd 3 and get a WR that you can groom as a Walter replacement...and perhaps get your AJ replacement in the next draft or two.

I could imagine a double TE set with Fleener and OD who can both run the seam and present major matchup trouble. I see Fleener as a big WR with speed more than a traditional TE. I mean you have a guy at 6-6 250lbs, who can run a 4.5. Adding that kind of athletic ability would be intriging. Call him a TE and make fun all you want of Kubes love affair with TE, but as a pass catcher, I like it the more I think of it. Then you can always flare out our vaunted RB who is one of the best out of the backfield...then you can still have AJ and WR2 (whomever that ends up being) in the pattern as well.

That is one hell of a lot of weapons at Matt's disposal so I'm not sure it's as far fletched as it appears. Having said that, I still view it as a longshot.

The last couple of weeks I have been thinking more and more that they are going OLB there at 26 (assuming no trade down). Curry, Branch, McCellin are a handful of names that I think could be there and could be our pick.

Glad to see more people are getting onboard with taking Fleener at 26, if he's there, for the exact reasons you point out. I am just not sure that the second tier WRs in this draft could make the sort of immediate impact Fleener could at TE. OD initially wasn't a great blocker either, but its something he's worked his way into.

mussop

04-24-2012, 11:43 PM

Glad to see more people are getting onboard with taking Fleener at 26, if he's there, for the exact reasons you point out. I am just not sure that the second tier WRs in this draft could make the sort of immediate impact Fleener could at TE. OD initially wasn't a great blocker either, but its something he's worked his way into.

Yall better stop this or Powda is going to blow a fuse!

The Pencil Neck

04-25-2012, 12:08 AM

If fleener is the pick I'd be disappointed. Especially since scouts say he doesn't block.

They said that and much worse about Shannon Sharpe and he did OK in this offense up in Denver.

The Pencil Neck

04-25-2012, 12:14 AM

I don't see a G or TE in rd 1. I really don't. Having said that, I'm not going to throw a hissy fit if Fleener or any of the G or T are picked. We need good football players that are playmakers on either side of the ball.

Thinking it over though, a case could be made that Fleener could add just as much to the pass game as any of the WR taken at that spot. You could still come back around rd 3 and get a WR that you can groom as a Walter replacement...and perhaps get your AJ replacement in the next draft or two.

I could imagine a double TE set with Fleener and OD who can both run the seam and present major matchup trouble. I see Fleener as a big WR with speed more than a traditional TE. I mean you have a guy at 6-6 250lbs, who can run a 4.5. Adding that kind of athletic ability would be intriging. Call him a TE and make fun all you want of Kubes love affair with TE, but as a pass catcher, I like it the more I think of it. Then you can always flare out our vaunted RB who is one of the best out of the backfield...then you can still have AJ and WR2 (whomever that ends up being) in the pattern as well.

That is one hell of a lot of weapons at Matt's disposal so I'm not sure it's as far fletched as it appears. Having said that, I still view it as a longshot.

The last couple of weeks I have been thinking more and more that they are going OLB there at 26 (assuming no trade down). Curry, Branch, McCellin are a handful of names that I think could be there and could be our pick.

This is what I've been saying. We need another receiving option. It doesn't much matter if that's a WR or a TE.

Imagine an offense with OD, Fleener, Casey, and AJ lined up along with someone like a Toon. OD, Fleener, and Casey could all line up in the back field as FBs, on the line as TEs, or spread out as WRs. And then go in motion and all shift over to take the other's spots. This could create some great matchups and warp some defensive assignments. You put all those big guys out there and then throw a jump ball to the guy covered by the shortest DB. There's just a lot that can be done with an athlete like that.

Gawd.

I hate waiting for the damned draft to start.

pirbroke

04-25-2012, 07:56 AM

One more day to go, wooohooo. The 1st round starts at 7pm tomorrow and with 10 minutes a pick the Texans should be on the clock around 9:30 to 9:40 for those planning their day.

Rey

04-25-2012, 07:57 AM

This is what I've been saying. We need another receiving option. It doesn't much matter if that's a WR or a TE.

I don't know if I agree with that.

How many teams have a receiver as good as Aj, two legit te's (Dreesen last yr),and a rb that is as good receiving as Arian is. And no matter what people say Walter and jacoby don't suck. They aren't ideally what you'd like in a #2 receiver, but they are capable 3s or 4s. Then you also had Casey at fb for a while who I think will fit in nicely as the second TE.

So last year, minus jacoby and Walter you had about 4 or 5 really good receiving options on the field last year that were above average when Aj was healthy.

The thing we missed was when Aj hot hurt we didn't have anyone even close to being able to step up on the outside of the formation. No one that gave cb's fits trying to cover.

Personally I don't see fleener as the type of receiving option that Jimmy Grahm, antonio gates or gronk is. I don't think he is that kind of player. I believe Ladarius green is closer to that than he is.

I think we specifically need another wr. Like I said, I think Casey can fill in and pick up where Dreesen left off and without picking up anyone at all we still have 3 or 4 really good pass catchers. Not a lot of teams can say that and not a lot of teams have an Andre mixed in with those 3 or 4 options.

Blake

04-25-2012, 12:16 PM

One more day to go, wooohooo. The 1st round starts at 7pm tomorrow and with 10 minutes a pick the Texans should be on the clock around 9:30 to 9:40 for those planning their day.

Any true draftnik would have ESPN, NFL Network, at least two radios and TT mb on at least 4 hours prior to "here's the NFL Commissioner with the first pick in the 2012 NFL draft..."

Yeah, pretty much.

The possibility of "missing" the draft because it started before I expected is just about null.

The NFLN will be on tomorrow morning as soon as I get up and will stay on through the end of the draft.

badboy

04-25-2012, 06:54 PM

Yeah, pretty much.

The possibility of "missing" the draft because it started before I expected is just about null.

The NFLN will be on tomorrow morning as soon as I get up and will stay on through the end of the draft.haha, I'd feel sorry for you if I were not so busy feeling sorry for me. :rally:

El Tejano

04-26-2012, 08:51 AM

So I was thinking about Coby Fleener and I believe I even started a thread about how it would make sense for us to get him and I've made several posts about how much I'd like to have him or wouldn't be mad if we drafted him with our first pick.

That being said I was looking over my draft board and the next TE I have is Brian Linthicum TE Michigan St. And I have him around for us at around the 4th round. With all the things said about Fleener in terms of reasons why he wouldn't be a bad first round pick (TE that can be the #2 WR, an offense that brings succes to TE, no proven threat as a #2 TE option for our two TE sets). Can Lithicum be a TE that can give us what we are looking for also in a TE? Can he do Coby Fleener type things for our team as well? Because if so, I'd be willing to draft a TE with one of our two 4th rounders. That's why you pick up the extra picks right?

nero THE zero

04-26-2012, 10:32 AM

Yeah, pretty much.

The possibility of "missing" the draft because it started before I expected is just about null.

The NFLN will be on tomorrow morning as soon as I get up and will stay on through the end of the draft.

I'll be presenting in class. It sucks.

But, I'll be out and driving home by the time it's the Texans to pick (assuming they stay at 26).

G27RR

04-26-2012, 10:37 AM

Linthicum is significantly slower (4.5ish vs 4.8ish). He is said to have soft hands, but he hasn't done much in the redzone and his routes are a little stiff. He looks like more of a blocker than a significant reception guy to me. His best year was 31 rec for 364 yards.

He was also arrested for fighting and charged with 3rd degree assault and evading arrest in 2011. He pleaded to a lesser charge. Texans may not like that background though.

Porky

04-26-2012, 12:07 PM

So I was thinking about Coby Fleener and I believe I even started a thread about how it would make sense for us to get him and I've made several posts about how much I'd like to have him or wouldn't be mad if we drafted him with our first pick.

That being said I was looking over my draft board and the next TE I have is Brian Linthicum TE Michigan St. And I have him around for us at around the 4th round. With all the things said about Fleener in terms of reasons why he wouldn't be a bad first round pick (TE that can be the #2 WR, an offense that brings succes to TE, no proven threat as a #2 TE option for our two TE sets). Can Lithicum be a TE that can give us what we are looking for also in a TE? Can he do Coby Fleener type things for our team as well? Because if so, I'd be willing to draft a TE with one of our two 4th rounders. That's why you pick up the extra picks right?

I'm not that high on him for our offense and I think 4th is high for him overall myself. He might even be a UDFA for his off field trouble and so/so numbers at best.

If you are looking for an alternative to Fleener with a top pick, it's Ladiurous Green. Played at a small school so admitedly my opinion is mostly second hand, but I liked the highlights I did see and his size/speed is right up there with Fleener. Not as polished and might need a bit more seasoning but his potential is pretty close from what I can tell. Looks like a guy that will go in the 2nd or 3rd. Won't be there in the 4th (I don't think)

For a later round guy, perhaps someone like James Hanna from Oklahoma. I think he has the skillset we are looking for as well. Good speed/size ratio like Fleener and Green. Just didn't catch a lot of passes. Of course neither did OD. I think he could be had in the 4th, 5th or maybe even 6th depending on exactly what you think of his potential.

Anyway, those are my top 3 TE's for this offense at different levels of the draft and all three are on my radar.

The Pencil Neck

04-26-2012, 01:22 PM

Just looking at Combine numbers, James Hanna looks AMAZING. But he didn't get production to match those numbers. He's a guy I'd consider in the later rounds if we don't get Fleener but from what I've seen, none of the TEs in this class come without red flags. Even Fleener.

Playoffs

04-26-2012, 01:26 PM

Browns may try for a third first-round pick to draft Brandon Weeden (http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/04/26/browns-may-try-for-a-third-first-round-pick-to-draft-brandon-weeden/)

Trading partner?!?

skenney_11

04-26-2012, 01:31 PM

Browns may try for a third first-round pick to draft Brandon Weeden (http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/04/26/browns-may-try-for-a-third-first-round-pick-to-draft-brandon-weeden/)

Trading partner?!?

That is what I am hoping for. Their 2nd and 3rd for our 1st. The only thing is that it is gonna suck to wait til tomorrow for the Texans to pick.

Porky

04-26-2012, 01:47 PM

That is what I am hoping for. Their 2nd and 3rd for our 1st. The only thing is that it is gonna suck to wait til tomorrow for the Texans to pick.

Ya that would be good...but who under us in the 1st rd is a threat to take a QB? You have the Pats, Ravens, Giants, SF, and Green Bay. If that's the case, they don't need to trade back up into the 1st round.

The only way it works is if another team wants to also trade-up for Weeden. Say they get wind that team B loves him and has an offer to trade up with the Pats at #27, so now the Brownies must trade up to our spot to take him. An unlikely, but not impossible scenerio.

I put the the tradedown odds at 10% and trade up odds at 5% but anything is possible.

Playoffs

04-26-2012, 02:22 PM

Ya that would be good...but who under us in the 1st rd is a threat to take a QB?You're right, board doesn't play out for that. Now I see it looks like Mel "The Hair" Kiper sourced it ... makes stuff up, perennially wrong. :headhurts:

Ya that would be good...but who under us in the 1st rd is a threat to take a QB? You have the Pats, Ravens, Giants, SF, and Green Bay. If that's the case, they don't need to trade back up into the 1st round.

The only way it works is if another team wants to also trade-up for Weeden. Say they get wind that team B loves him and has an offer to trade up with the Pats at #27, so now the Brownies must trade up to our spot to take him. An unlikely, but not impossible scenerio.

I put the the tradedown odds at 10% and trade up odds at 5% but anything is possible.

The other team that will likely want Weeden is the Jags and possibly the Chiefs, Seahawks, or Dolphins (whoever doesn't get Tannehill). No way do I let the Jags trade up to get him if I have the Browns bidding though. Let them bid up the price, and sell to the Browns for their highest bid. They have 13 picks, they can afford to give a 2nd, 3rd and 5th for 26, or both 4ths. Either way, I think we may be in a good spot to drop back 11 spots. I'm really hoping this happens because it gives us more draft cash to move around in 2-4 rounds.

El Tejano

04-26-2012, 05:15 PM

Ya that would be good...but who under us in the 1st rd is a threat to take a QB? You have the Pats, Ravens, Giants, SF, and Green Bay. If that's the case, they don't need to trade back up into the 1st round.

The only way it works is if another team wants to also trade-up for Weeden. Say they get wind that team B loves him and has an offer to trade up with the Pats at #27, so now the Brownies must trade up to our spot to take him. An unlikely, but not impossible scenerio.

I put the the tradedown odds at 10% and trade up odds at 5% but anything is possible.

At that low it's not far fetched to think that those teams may want their backup QB. Ok I'm reaching :kubepalm:

TheCD

04-28-2012, 06:56 PM

I'm obviously a bit biased but I graduated from Midwestern State and I was hoping we would target Silatolu the 2nd. I know other players from the team that have said he is a really great guy who works hard to get better.

Side note, while not the first MSU grad to play in the NFL (e.g. Dominic Rhodes), he is the first to be drafted.