Kuhnhackl. He's in the 10-15 area, he's not really that good. This top-10 is more well done than some other teams (like Dallas...woof). Tiny bit surprised Tangradi (unless he doesn't count) and Blueger didn't make the cut...

mikey287 wrote:Kuhnhackl. He's in the 10-15 area, he's not really that good. This top-10 is more well done than some other teams (like Dallas...woof). Tiny bit surprised Tangradi (unless he doesn't count) and Blueger didn't make the cut...

mikey287 wrote:Kuhnhackl. He's in the 10-15 area, he's not really that good. This top-10 is more well done than some other teams (like Dallas...woof). Tiny bit surprised Tangradi (unless he doesn't count) and Blueger didn't make the cut...

Blueger? For what, winning a puck handling drill?

He's the second most talented forward in the organization, terrific vision, skill, stickhandling...he's a better prospect than Strait or Bortuzzo certainly with or without proximity being considered.

mikey287 wrote:Kuhnhackl. He's in the 10-15 area, he's not really that good. This top-10 is more well done than some other teams (like Dallas...woof). Tiny bit surprised Tangradi (unless he doesn't count) and Blueger didn't make the cut...

Blueger? For what, winning a puck handling drill?

He's the second most talented forward in the organization, terrific vision, skill, stickhandling...he's a better prospect than Strait or Bortuzzo certainly with or without proximity being considered.

In terms of pure skill, sure. Let's see how he does at a higher level for a longer duration first. Top-ten should be unachievable unless the player at least played a significant number of games at major junior or higher.

I guess...I don't have a problem with it, it's a prospect list, it's intent is to project and predict. Rather have Blueger without "major junior or higher" experience than Strait with over 200 AHL games who has to be going on 25 by now and still isn't penciled into an NHL lineup...

Finally, it looks like we'll go into the season (if there is one) with some holes in the roster that will need to be filled by young guys stepping up, so we might actually get to see some of these prospects move off this list.

Seems like our top ten prospect list has been the same names plus a few more every year bumping other guys down. Tangradi is the only graduate from the Pen's top ten prospect list in many years.

pcm wrote:Finally, it looks like we'll go into the season (if there is one) with some holes in the roster that will need to be filled by young guys stepping up, so we might actually get to see some of these prospects move off this list.

Seems like our top ten prospect list has been the same names plus a few more every year bumping other guys down. Tangradi is the only graduate from the Pen's top ten prospect list in many years.

pcm wrote:Finally, it looks like we'll go into the season (if there is one) with some holes in the roster that will need to be filled by young guys stepping up, so we might actually get to see some of these prospects move off this list.

Seems like our top ten prospect list has been the same names plus a few more every year bumping other guys down. Tangradi is the only graduate from the Pen's top ten prospect list in many years.

pugilist13 wrote:You can spin it any way you want it. It's been 6 years!

Its not spin it just how it goes when you arent drafting in the top 10 or the first round at all.

We can ignore the 2010, 2011 & obviously 2012 drafts..... other than players in the top dozen picks of those drafts nobody has really made the NHL yet.

2009 - we picked dead last in the 1st round and selected Simon Despres. His developement at this stage is pretty comparable to guys taken around him. Take somebody like Dylan Olson taken 2 picks earlier for example, he got his first taste of NHL action this past season same as Despres did.

2008 - we didnt pick until the 120th selection.

2007 - We drafted Angelo Esposito in the 1st, an error which Shero corrected pretty quickly be suckering Atlanta in giving him Hossa as a rental and Dupius. Could some of the later picks been better? sure but thats always the case with 20/20 hindsight. The fact Jeffrey and Bortuzzo are going to be role players from that draft helps.

Its as much luck as it is judgement once you get outside the first round of any draft. Go look up Detroits last 6 draft classes or New Jerseys or Chicagos or Vancouvers.

It seems that since Shero took over, the Pens have enjoyed a luxury of patience with their prospects that I'm not sure any team before them has ever really had dating back to the Oilers of the early 1980s. This is attributable to a few things:

1. The team graduated a ton of Craig Patrick's picks to the NHL during the 2005-06 & 2006-07 seasons on a full-time basis. Orpik, Fleury & Malone arrived in 2003-04. 2005-06 saw the permanent callups of Whitney, Armstrong, Talbot, Scuderi, & Ouellet. It also, of course, brought the arrival of Crosby. 2006-07 saw the arrival of Malkin and the unexpected arrival of Staal, which meant within two season, the Pens locked in long-term solutions for their top three centers. Erik Christensen also arrived in 2006-07. Those are twelve players who contributed significantly to this lineup through the first two years of Shero's tenure, when "rebuilding" was still the main focus. At least until...

2. The unexpected 47-point leap in the standings between 05-06 & 06-07 forced Shero to accelerate his initial rebuilding plan almost overnight, relatively speaking. The turnaround cost the team what was management probably planned on being at best to be a top 10-15 pick in the 2007 Draft heading into that 2006-07 season. As Davemess noted above, this fortuitously turned into Angelo Esposito, but that pick only served to strengthen an already-loaded position. Shero may never admit this on record, but it's pretty easy to see that Esposito's greatest value to the team was as trade bait. This was further accelerated in 2007 when the Gill and Laraque deals cost them 2nd and 3rd round picks in 2008.

3. The trades at the 2008 deadline, particularly the Hossa trade. In "Breakaway" Andy Conte revealed the discussions that occurred between Shero and ownership in the lead-up to the Hossa deal. It became apparent that this was the point in Shero's tenure when the rebuilding plan was officially abandoned by the front office. They knew making the Hossa deal would effecitvely cost them two first-round picks (Esposito plus the 2008 first rounder). With the 2nd and 3rd round picks already gone from the Gill and Laraque deals, the 2008 draft officially became a wash.

I'm not totally absolving Shero of everything here. I just think there are some unique circumstances that came to light with this team, and the emphasis on developing prospects changed incredibly quickly. He had just taken over a month before the 2006 draft and for what it's worth, both Strait and Sneep appear to be following the same developmental track as Scuderi (taken in '98, spent three full years in college after being drafted, then effectively four full years in WBS).

From a long-term contribution standpoint, the 2007 draft has not been good. The Esposito trade was a means to an end that brought the NHL core invaluable Cup Finals experience in 2008. And perhaps Bortuzzo, Jeffrey and Veilleux can still salvage that a little, too. The 2008 Draft was depleted at the cost of a Cup; I'll take that trade-off any day.

That leaves us with 2009, a draft from which the Pens picked last & may still see that first-round pick on the NHL roster this coming year. That's not bad at all for a team that hasn't really HAD to rush prospects to the NHL level since 2006-07.

I really think it falls someplace in the middle. We traded away some picks and that has hurt, as well as drafting later in the first round, but also we are now talking about hoping 2 guys from our 2007 draft play for the 2012-13 season. That's not good at all. I am sure we would have another player or two in different circumstances but overall the drafting has not been good. Whether we had high picks or not in 2007 - 2009 you need to turn some of those picks into players.

If even 2 or 3 guys bloomed into average NHL players we would not be worrying about our 3rd and 4th lines right now. At some point in the cap era we are going to need to fill the roster from within, espeically if we continue to get top heavy with salary.

Edit: and if everyone thinks it should take 6 years to get to the NHL then our fan base is REALLY used to drafting just defense.