Why on Earth would you not be using Xeons for that type of work? Consumer level hardware for that kind of stuff is just foolish.

It was a work around to budget issues of that management era. The ESXi farm we had then was overutlized, So I cheated and bought my own hardware using my own bonuses and gave hardware ownership to the company and offloaded my work there.

I reinvested into my job, and was able to do it with less resource conflicts.. it was a win in my book. And once properly cooled it ran that way for I dunno, 4-5 years?

Last edited by maxxcool on Wed Dec 07, 2016 11:27 am, edited 1 time in total.

Cybert said: Capitlization and periods are hard for you, aren't they? I've given over $100 to techforums. I should have you banned for my money.

It was a work around to budget issues of that management era. The ESXi farm we had then was overutlized, So I cheated and bought my own hardware using my own bonuses and gave hardware ownership to the company and offloaded my work there.

Cool story, bro.

maxxcool wrote:

I reinvested into my job, and was able to do it with less resource conflicts.. it was a win in my book.

You spent your own money to buy tools you then donated to your company?

Do you decline raises too?

maxxcool wrote:

LOL I do not say "forensics" we were not interested in where 'stuff came from'

No, of course you didn't say. Like all BSers you keep your claims extremely vague and amorphous, because every time your firm up your claims even a little bit they just sound even more ridiculous.

maxxcool wrote:

only if it was there and was it recoverable with effort to cost weighed.

It was a work around to budget issues of that management era. The ESXi farm we had then was overutlized, So I cheated and bought my own hardware using my own bonuses and gave hardware ownership to the company and offloaded my work there.

Cool story, bro.

maxxcool wrote:

I reinvested into my job, and was able to do it with less resource conflicts.. it was a win in my book.

You spent your own money to buy tools you then donated to your company?

Do you decline raises too?

maxxcool wrote:

LOL I do not say "forensics" we were not interested in where 'stuff came from'

No, of course you didn't say. Like all BSers you keep your claims extremely vague and amorphous, because every time your firm up your claims even a little bit they just sound even more ridiculous.

maxxcool wrote:

only if it was there and was it recoverable with effort to cost weighed.

Oh, ok, so now you are CPU-bound doing data-recovery?

What "Try again" round are we on now? Four?

Sigh.. Not much more I can say. Your at the watering hole.. if you haven't guessed what we were collecting (not Pokemon!) I cant help you any further.

Cybert said: Capitlization and periods are hard for you, aren't they? I've given over $100 to techforums. I should have you banned for my money.

Sigh.. Not much more I can say. Your at the watering hole.. if you haven't guessed what we were collecting (not Pokemon!) I cant help you any further.

Ah, Bitcoin back when one could still profitably mine it with consumer-grade hardware.

As for the TDP issue, Bitcoin mining would certainly result in continuous 100% CPU load. While the CPUs themselves were likely within their stated TDP limits, their stock HSFs weren't rated to shed 100% CPU load on a 100% duty cycle. That's where the bean counters' choices came into play.

Sigh.. Not much more I can say. Your at the watering hole.. if you haven't guessed what we were collecting (not Pokemon!) I cant help you any further.

Ah, Bitcoin back when one could still profitably mine it with consumer-grade hardware.

As for the TDP issue, Bitcoin mining would certainly result in continuous 100% CPU load. While the CPUs themselves were likely within their stated TDP limits, their stock HSFs weren't rated to shed 100% CPU load on a 100% duty cycle. That's where the bean counters' choices came into play.

God I WISH it it was bitcoins.. back then CPU power was all you needed ... to be honest I did not think that whole thing would amount to anything and ignored it. woops...

Cybert said: Capitlization and periods are hard for you, aren't they? I've given over $100 to techforums. I should have you banned for my money.

Sure. You work for the CIA too, right? And so it's top-secret or something?

maxxcool wrote:

Your at the watering hole.. if you haven't guessed what we were collecting (not Pokemon!) I cant help you any further.

If you were doing data recovery, this is ridiculous.

But that's such a huge secret & sensitive field ( ) that I can understand why you can't talk about it.

Oh, it's not that? Something else, known only to you?

Yup. Sure. Enjoy being an international man of (made-up) mystery, but please refrain from making silly technical claims in the future then. If you can't say (LOL), fine, don't say.

Captain Ned wrote:

Ah, Bitcoin back when one could still profitably mine it with consumer-grade hardware.

Nah, too much file stuff.

Don't encourage him, he's already excited that he's turned his ignorant FUD about AMD's TDP into this new (and even MORE annoying) "I'm SO mysterious and cool and do stuff you don't know but I do!" schtick.

Sure. You work for the CIA too, right? And so it's top-secret or something?

maxxcool wrote:

Your at the watering hole.. if you haven't guessed what we were collecting (not Pokemon!) I cant help you any further.

If you were doing data recovery, this is ridiculous.

But that's such a huge secret & sensitive field ( :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: ) that I can understand why you can't talk about it.

Oh, it's not that? Something else, known only to you?

Yup. Sure. Enjoy being an international man of (made-up) mystery, but please refrain from making silly technical claims in the future then. If you can't say (LOL), fine, don't say.

Captain Ned wrote:

Ah, Bitcoin back when one could still profitably mine it with consumer-grade hardware.

Nah, too much file stuff.

Don't encourage him, he's already excited that he's turned his ignorant FUD about AMD's TDP into this new (and even MORE annoying) "I'm SO mysterious and cool and do stuff you don't know but I do!" schtick.

If I was only a man of mystery, please. What I did was hours of boring..

Back on topic, AMD 8c/16th cpu in a minimal space is still questionable, we need to see the actual real deal in the future to know for sure but high end-gaming with a SFF rig, or folding is questionable. It depends a ton on implementation and ability to remove heat from the case.. but I suspect throttling will still be a issue if one expects the cpu to maintain its highest turbo clock speed..

edit, spelling ..

Cybert said: Capitlization and periods are hard for you, aren't they? I've given over $100 to techforums. I should have you banned for my money.

Sure. You work for the CIA too, right? And so it's top-secret or something?

maxxcool wrote:

Your at the watering hole.. if you haven't guessed what we were collecting (not Pokemon!) I cant help you any further.

If you were doing data recovery, this is ridiculous.

But that's such a huge secret & sensitive field ( :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: ) that I can understand why you can't talk about it.

Oh, it's not that? Something else, known only to you?

Yup. Sure. Enjoy being an international man of (made-up) mystery, but please refrain from making silly technical claims in the future then. If you can't say (LOL), fine, don't say.

Captain Ned wrote:

Ah, Bitcoin back when one could still profitably mine it with consumer-grade hardware.

Nah, too much file stuff.

Don't encourage him, he's already excited that he's turned his ignorant FUD about AMD's TDP into this new (and even MORE annoying) "I'm SO mysterious and cool and do stuff you don't know but I do!" schtick.

If I was only a man of mystery, please. What I did was hours of boring..

Back on topic, AMD 8c/16th cpu in a minimal space is still questionable, we need to see the actual real deal in the future to know for sure but high end-gaming with a SFF rig, or folding is questionable. It depends a ton on implementation and ability to remove heat from the case.. but I suspect throttling will still be a issue if one expects the cpu to maintain its highest turbo clock speed..

edit, spelling ..

Yeah but the MIlo ML08B has better airflow then some other mITX cases I've seen.

Sure. You work for the CIA too, right? And so it's top-secret or something?

If you were doing data recovery, this is ridiculous.

But that's such a huge secret & sensitive field ( :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: ) that I can understand why you can't talk about it.

Oh, it's not that? Something else, known only to you?

Yup. Sure. Enjoy being an international man of (made-up) mystery, but please refrain from making silly technical claims in the future then. If you can't say (LOL), fine, don't say.

Nah, too much file stuff.

Don't encourage him, he's already excited that he's turned his ignorant FUD about AMD's TDP into this new (and even MORE annoying) "I'm SO mysterious and cool and do stuff you don't know but I do!" schtick.

If I was only a man of mystery, please. What I did was hours of boring..

Back on topic, AMD 8c/16th cpu in a minimal space is still questionable, we need to see the actual real deal in the future to know for sure but high end-gaming with a SFF rig, or folding is questionable. It depends a ton on implementation and ability to remove heat from the case.. but I suspect throttling will still be a issue if one expects the cpu to maintain its highest turbo clock speed..

edit, spelling ..

Yeah but the MIlo ML08B has better airflow then some other mITX cases I've seen.

If it is quiet and can pull off the thermals that would be pretty ideal for a lan box.

Cybert said: Capitlization and periods are hard for you, aren't they? I've given over $100 to techforums. I should have you banned for my money.

The Node 202 is my pick. I've been very happy with my Node 304. The thermals of the Node 202 are middle of the road, but when I was at Micro Center it was the only compact ITX case that didn't make me cringe.

If I was only a man of mystery, please. What I did was hours of boring..

Back on topic, AMD 8c/16th cpu in a minimal space is still questionable, we need to see the actual real deal in the future to know for sure but high end-gaming with a SFF rig, or folding is questionable. It depends a ton on implementation and ability to remove heat from the case.. but I suspect throttling will still be a issue if one expects the cpu to maintain its highest turbo clock speed..

edit, spelling ..

Heh. If you were doing what I think you must have been doing, I'd not have said nearly as much...

Re: The Topic - I think that AMD will cheat, and cheat heinously. There's a easy way to do it, too - remove the iGPU. That frees up a ton of die space and power/heat that would normally be taken up. Even Intel has iGPUs on pretty much every SOHO die they make nowadays.

Is it a good idea for AMD to do this? No... but if they are still behind on heat, die-space, or power like I can only imagine they will be, it's an option.

So, you're saying Intel cheated on their Xenon and "high end" platform? Current benchmarks that have been shown and "leaked" indicate that Zen is on par in the blender benchmark. I'm ready to invest in mounds of salt at this point, but no current CPU that AMD produces could cheat to achieve that feat. I remain cautiously optimistic.

The point of this thread was to ask if we think Zen will fit in a SFF. I think with proper cooling Zen will fit in a SFF build, even at the rumored 95W. The Wraith cooler has proven it is sufficient enough to keep pace with the beloved Evo 212 in benchmarks that I have seen. If Wraith fits in the chassis I think it will be fine. People fit overclocked Intel stuff in them all the time, reaching over 100W in the process.

So, you're saying Intel cheated on their Xenon and "high end" platform? Current benchmarks that have been shown and "leaked" indicate that Zen is on par in the blender benchmark. I'm ready to invest in mounds of salt at this point, but no current CPU that AMD produces could cheat to achieve that feat. I remain cautiously optimistic.

The point of this thread was to ask if we think Zen will fit in a SFF. I think with proper cooling Zen will fit in a SFF build, even at the rumored 95W. The Wraith cooler has proven it is sufficient enough to keep pace with the beloved Evo 212 in benchmarks that I have seen. If Wraith fits in the chassis I think it will be fine. People fit overclocked Intel stuff in them all the time, reaching over 100W in the process.

I'm optimistic about performance too, but being competitive with Broadwell isn't helpful when Kaby Lake is almost here on the desktop. My point is that AMD might need to alter the design to get the best possible performance from whatever design they have, and removing the iGPU will allow for more heat/power tweaking that otherwise wouldn't be possible.

And, no, Intel business CPUs weren't ever APUs because they don't need to be; when I say "cheating" I mean "removing the iGPU from a APU design prior to production to free up power budget for a factory overclock".

I don't think that fitting Zen into a SFFis even in question. Of course we will be able to. AMD simply can't and won't release Zen above 125 watts. Well, unless they have no other option and are going to go out of business anyways.

Not sure why that would even be considered a "cheat". TBH I never expected the 8c/16t version to have an IGP; I figured it would be analogous to the APU/FX thing today -- lower core count devices with an IGP for budget-sensitive applications, and higher core count without IGP for performance desktops and workstations. The only difference this time around is that they both use the same socket.

I would never use one myself (I'm a quiet > performance sort of person) but I had a lot of fun building into a FTZ01 with a GTX970 and Haswell i5 for someone's couch gaming build. Out of the box it was a bit noisy but some silicone sealant to mount different fans with and a bit of dremeling to remove airflow obstructions made a huge difference to the noise. The fun was in trying to make it quiet when 250W in a tiny space is not going to be by default. I was pleased enough with the results that I'd recommend that case for anyone willing to experiment (and presumably the Milo and Raven equivalents based on the same chassis and internal layout).

I don't think you can build an mITX case and just expect a quiet system without some careful component choice. You should also stick to mATX if you're not expecting to do some light modding.

Quiet ITX can be done with the right components and a little less overclocking. The video card is the biggest issue, fortunately no longer a problem for me.It's about quality fans, rubber fan mounts, very quiet CPU cooler and careful PSU selection - finally a good case. Eliminating the HDD helps too. I intend to make a pretty darn quiet ITX one mid next year which should be fairly high performance, but no GPU

Isn't the possibility of a small form factor Zen system decided by the motherboard vendors, and not by AMD? Having 8+ cores in a mini-ITX form factor isn't anything new, so it's not like Zen would be breaking new ground here. I would agree having a small but obnoxiously loud PC is kind of missing the point, but that's not really up to AMD to decide if it makes sense to do that.

Do not meddle in the affairs of archers, for they are subtle and you won't hear them coming.

You can put a X99 itx board in a cube with a good cooler. The asrock consumer X99 itx only has 2 dimms, but server itx one has all 4 channels to sodimms, they make big ECC modules for Xeon Ds that work fine for E5 as well:

That is up to 22 cores (or 10 unlocked), a big enough cpu air cooler for at least 150W TDP, a monster GPU and a couple SSDs with a regular ATX powersupply in something like a core V1: a ton of power in roughly a cubic foot.

Last edited by Bauxite on Wed Dec 07, 2016 3:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.

TR 1950x 16c32t - 2018: Pretty much done with intel on the desktop.E5 2696v4 22c44t 2.2~3.7Ghz - The last great gleam of the pre-nerf HEDT era.E5 1680v2 8c16t 4.5Ghz - "Yes Virginia, there were unlocked xeons" /weep for them.

Not sure why that would even be considered a "cheat". TBH I never expected the 8c/16t version to have an IGP; I figured it would be analogous to the APU/FX thing today -- lower core count devices with an IGP for budget-sensitive applications, and higher core count without IGP for performance desktops and workstations. The only difference this time around is that they both use the same socket.

Not sure why that would even be considered a "cheat". TBH I never expected the 8c/16t version to have an IGP; I figured it would be analogous to the APU/FX thing today -- lower core count devices with an IGP for budget-sensitive applications, and higher core count without IGP for performance desktops and workstations. The only difference this time around is that they both use the same socket.

Why would anyone even put an iGPU on a high performance CPU anyway?

They wouldn't, but they would on an APU . AMD is still betting on HSA.

If you think an APU is something different than a CPU with integrated graphics, then AMDs marketing department loves you. Creating the "APU" was an exercise in rebranding when they knew couldn't compete on performance.

Do not meddle in the affairs of archers, for they are subtle and you won't hear them coming.

Not sure why that would even be considered a "cheat". TBH I never expected the 8c/16t version to have an IGP; I figured it would be analogous to the APU/FX thing today -- lower core count devices with an IGP for budget-sensitive applications, and higher core count without IGP for performance desktops and workstations. The only difference this time around is that they both use the same socket.

Why would anyone even put an iGPU on a high performance CPU anyway?

I think we all want the answer to that question. I guess it's nice to have if a video card fails; at least the PC would still be usable for non-gaming tasks, but... that's kind of an edge case.

If you think an APU is something different than a CPU with integrated graphics, then AMDs marketing department loves you. Creating the "APU" was an exercise in rebranding when they knew couldn't compete on performance.

AFAIK nobody here is implying that they are different. It's a convenient shorthand, basically.

Actually 1U servers benefit from decent IGPs. Some of the onboard graphics chips for server boards are so bad that it makes KVM sessions unbearable. Most of the time it's irrelevant since the server is running a remote session but occasionally you need to physically interact with a server and you want more than a standard VGA adapter these days.

Congratulations, you've noticed that this year's signature is based on outdated internet memes; CLICK HERE NOW to experience this unforgettable phenomenon. This sentence is just filler and as irrelevant as my signature.