"Our own personal enthusiasm for CPMA is what lead to us contracting arQon to work on Quake Live for such a long time during the beta period, and we could have continued to work with him if he had not vanished (and his whereabouts are still unknown, hopefully where ever he is he is safe and alive). The fact is, CPMA exists and any true CPM/CPMA fan probably would not be satisfied with anything less than the real deal -- which they already have to play. Most fear that a CPMA integration would segregate their community.

Concerning the mod, we've already added many of the fixes and features present in CPMA, from its fps independent fix, to competition commands like its 'timeout' ability, client customization like its colored bright skins, or its projectile smoke controls; gameplay changes like fast weapon switching, double jumping, ramp jumping...

While there is was a lot done within the CPMA framework, I would say that the two big remaining things would be the CPM air control physics and server-side demo aka MVD support. The CPM air control is just a concept based on how movement functioned in QuakeWorld, but I wouldn't personally be interested in any level of implementation that falls short of providing the exact feel that CPM fans are looking for. While cooperation with some existing CPMA coders may be possible, the legal owner of the CPMA code is missing making any cooperation between the two teams difficult if not impossible.

I think real fans of CPMA would rather just play CPMA, but if there are fans of Quake Live that would like to see further CPMA features in QL, it would do them a greater service if they specified what from CPMA they'd like to see."

haha yeah, but whats' even funnier is watching people giving suggestions to id that have been asked 100's of times before. It's like, hello mcfly... what part of id hasn't listened to you in the last 3 years didn't you get lol. I love the glass is half full kind, i can see them standing on top of a mountain as the apocalypse comes crashing into them, hoping for the best while the smart ones are hiding in a bunker somewhere.

More like: CPMA players wouldn't pay subscription anyway because you can play the mod with unlimited maps for free already, considering we are in the middle of a global recession and you need to save as much money as possible.

most every meaningful change in ql came from the cpma side anyway. so not sure what the point of this thread is. if its about cpm physics i dont see it happening in ql. altho seggregation of the community is really weak excuse. not like the community is unified anyway. theres a bunch of elitist players who play duel/tdm/ca and then theres the ca crowd. hardly a coherent group.

give us ladders/gtv or in game stream integration at the very least/more features on the web side. or do nothing. :)

Game features are cool, but I think what's really lacking is the community integration side of things. There's a friends list, basic chat and clans, but nothing like battle.net's matchmaking, integrated irc, voice chat, etc. Also... maybe a resign button or just built in frag limit for casual games... I think Starcraft has the right culture in that if you've got no hope of winning the game doesn't always need to continue to the time limit.

Frankly it's hard to do much development with just two people. I mean, lets be realistic.

i understand that implementing something like a matchmaking/ladder system would actually take a lot of work, but is it really that hard to implement some basic features on the web side? this isnt a rhetorical question cos i havent done any major web stuff and im actually curious about this. how tough would it be to make an attractive clan system with clan pages and stuff where people can upload content?

how about implementing a side bar on the main site with a list of streams? this is clearly not that hard since its already been done on the #live.ql site. (i had a discussion about this some time on focus and the one reasonably coherent reply i got was, we have no way of controlling the content on the streams so they could violate the esrb rating on the site, which seemed pretty weak since u can always put an age verifier or whatever).

i mean when u think about the fact that here u have a game through a web portal and we dont even have a section on the main page with some community contributed tutorials/videos. pretty fucking sad tbh. i mean quakelive.com should be like quakeworld.nu except better and with the embedded game. and i dont think thats asking too much or too much work.

he is if he thinks he can turn this game around. He should find another company that can actually pay him. id doesn't have the resources to give him a decent enough salary for ql so they'll hire him as a private contractor paying him by the hour.

I don't think you understand how freelance rates versus staff rates are calculated. Typically freelance daily/hourly rates are higher than staff rates. The difference of the rate amounts to benefits(health insurance etc.)

There are real practical reasons for ramping up a team with freelancers, you can execute a lot of work in a short period of time without hiring full-time staff. I.E. cheaper in the long run because you are only paying a freelancer (the same hourly/daily rate a staffer gets) for a shorter span of time.

This is not to say that some studio's will not take advantage of their freelancers and break some laws in regards to overtime pay. I recently worked at a studio where I was working 9-7 5 days a week, that's 50 hours, or 10 hours of overtime a week. Unfortunately for me my pay stubs only read 40 hours, the amount of money was correct except for the fact that 10 of the hours should have been time and a half. That particular studio took a gamble assuming that I wouldn't have the money to raise the issue in a court of law, and they were correct.

However, arqon is not the type of person who would stand for that abuse, and id software is a respectable studio who is not looking to tarnish their name and make their studio seem less than optimal to work for.

What makes you think they'll hire him to do anything more than a couple days work? So yes, i do understand it quite well, they will NOT be hiring him full time (as staff or as a freelancer), based on their current lack of resources. Btw, you forgot to factor in benefits (medical, dental, paid leave) for being staff. Private contractor work is usually deemed temporary work and thats' all he can expect to get at this point. They don't have a plan in place for any long term projects, and if they do then it's probably being outsourced to currently existing staff members, such as those working on qlranks on their own time.

Well ofc it would be an option, but it being available on pubs kinda contradicts id's shitty philosophy, which is leave the non-paying customers with the bare minimum, then tease them with all the additional content.

I'm not saying that GTV for everyone would be a bad thing, but this is one of the few things I agree would be perfect as a feature for spawned servers.

PS: premium is retarded, should be merged with pro, so that there's just subscribers and non-subscribers.

Haha these comments are so ironic since if you had any skill in CPMA you'd know that the stronger items means two things:

1- Aim is actually less important than map control since having control of the powerups compensates for bigger diferences in aim

2- Movement, pathing, prediction, and item timing, skill at getting the items without taking more damage than you gain in health/armor, are all emphasized over aim due to the buffed armors.

If your aim is better than mine, but I move better than you do, then I will beat you to all the armors and your aim isn't going to save you. Relative to the other skills, aim is much more emphasized in QL with a bigger payoff than it is in CPMA.

Since you are just trolling and not making arguments, but I think it's fun to talk about, I thought of one for you. You might say that since the _movement_ system in CPMA is so much more fluid, it is harder to deny territory to an enemy. That means that in CPMA, whenever your enemy wants to fight you, it's harder to avoid taking the fight than in QL by anticipating where the enemy will attack from, taking up a superior position, spamming in that direction, etc - especially if its over an item, and so in CPMA you'd think you have to rely on your aim to prevail.

On most CPMA dm maps I'd say that's true, though cpm15 would be an anomaly. On cpm3a or cpm24, if you are going for RA and he wants to fight you for it, there isn't much you can do to just bully him off it and stop him challenging you. Typically the player attacking the item spawn has an advantage over the player camping it, VERY MUCH so on cpm24 but also true on cpm3a.

Luckily, movement, map control, and prediction win the day here too - on cpm3a what most players do is time the armor so that they can rush through the RA spawn at the speed of sound and get the fuck out and back into a good position to convert the frags before they can be challenged at all. It takes a lot of skill to do that - leaving out the lack of an in-game timer (this wouldn't be significant to elite QL players but it's another way that decent players have advantage over beginners in CPMA), it takes a lot of practice and many games played to get into RA and get out without eating prediction rockets and whatnot. I don't care how well you aim - if you don't have that shit down, I _will_ frag you on the way in or out of RA spawn. Think you can beat me without ever taking an RA? Maybe your aim is *that* much better than mine, but if it is, you deserve to win - this is Quake for fucks sake.

On cpm24 it's so fucking hard to get out of RA without taking more damage than you got from the armor that a lot of the time it's the player out of control who's gambling to take it (and usually getting fragged or taking 200 on the way out) while the in control player camps upper YA. Again, aim is not a factor when it comes to taking items here, but that's not the whole story.

But wait, Anonymous! Having a strong LG is a huge advantage on cpm24 and it's very possible to take map control by just fragging the enemy with better lg!

True, but this would be WORSE if the armors weren't buffed. Getting only 50a from a YA instead of 100 would make it _easier_ for the out of control player to take back control through nothing other than aim. Since the armors are stronger, it's still practical for a player with better map knowledge and prediction to edge out a player with worse aim. For an example, look at dziku vs zoom from CPM Master's cup.

When I was playing CPMA about 25 hours a week and had about 8,000 games against some of the best players in North America - in other words, I was very far from the elite players of that time like rat, dziku, koddy, etc - I once lost to vo0 60 -3 on cpm22 :( - but I knew enough to have informed opinions about shit like this - I noticed when Q3/QL players who had an open mind and wanted to try something different would play a CPM game against me, they almost always had better aim than I did. And it never mattered, since they didn't understand the movement system so I took every item and my aim being maybe 70% as good was enough to retain map control and convert frags when I was constantly stacked.

When they did frag me due to sick LG or whatever, I could recover and get back in control quickly since the buffed items allow an out of control player who can steal a YA or two to be able to fight or at least do damage even if the opponent has 200/200. I never played QL enough but I got the impression that this is not possible on QL dm6, for example - being out of control means you're fighting for several minutes to regain control even if you're winning the chess match. So Which way makes aim more important?

gtv mvd all maps free extra cpma features prem/pro cpm/defrag/jailbreak/weapon factory/team fortress/headhunters/painkeep rulesets ladders leagues anticheat more tiers or no tiers tiers for duel based on qlranks elo system open chat on the website promotion of pickup channels mapping contests better chat tokens community manager more willing to interact with the actual community delay before you can reconnect when you're kicked

I would love to see promode migrate to Quake Live, it would make pub CA on dm6 SOOOOOO MUCH MORE INTERESTING-er. I just love the ability to move at the speed of light and do flick rails / spam nades or do combos of things, airshot and then LG kill or rocket shot and then rail. Instant weapon switch combined with the movement is just sex. But I fear this won't be implemented, and if it does get implemented, I feel as thought both CTF and CA will be getting a boost of people playing it #promode style, and hopefully the CPMA people will come on over to Quake Live, I mean guys, we have amphi (; all we need is air control and maybe a few weapon tweaks, just leave the shotgun alone, that shit has been fucked up, overpowered, underpowered, and now I think its acceptable and thats all I can say, so much unusual shotty changes with the spread, and the pellet damage, and the number of pellets, I dont recall anyone complaining until it got changed each time

you mean around 2009 early 09 and late '10 because yeah, shotty was WAY too strong, in CTF especially in those old demos it would be the only thing to use with quad and for TDM too, but the nerf they did was too strong and then we had so many WTF updates, when things started being fine, it got fucked up at least five times If i recall

people seem to love buying skins and voicepacks and stuff like that(like in LoL or TF2 for example).

why not make only 3 or 4 models available as normal user (keel/bright, crash, sarge, visor), and premium users get all the skins and models. i bet some people would rather pay for that, then 2 or 3 maps they rather not play anyway.

Let`s just hope that if CPM physics are added it doesn't add with it even more immature trash talk and skill segregation for no good reason. I mean why is it not possible to have Quake without elitism these days? I mean I enjoy ProMode but I don`t enjoy the attitude that goes with it.

Does really nobody know where arqon is? I mean someone of the 1000 esr users should know or did he block any kind of real life relationships and had no friends?
I think we should get csi:ql involved in that case.

On the kenya map cpm stream they ran tonight, they were chatting about arqon and someone I think mentioned that he got awfully sick and almost died or something. Don't take my word, but they mentioned something like that.

I would love CPM physics in QL. He's right though, a less-than-perfect implementation would just annoy everyone. The 'QW-style' physics they gave us as a devpick a while ago were horrible, and if they gave us 'CPM physics' of that quality I would QQ pretty hard.

I agree the ammo can get kind of high if you keep getting weapon pickups. In cpm having 5 rails and just getting a slug or two from pickups is worse because it's less fun, just due to being annoying, imo.

A hybrid 10 rails on pickup of a new rg and just getting left over ammo from other rail pickups would be ok, but I don't really think it's that big of a deal. Map structure makes more of a difference.

ian i think the main idea behind keeping the ammo that restricted in cpm is the fact that you have much less restrictions on movement. so finding an ammo pack or a weapon takes much less time. so obviously if the logic were to be adapted to vq3 physics u would need the ammo restrictions to be less strict.

you make a very good point about map structure tho. any change will affect maps differently. whats really mystifying to me is how maps in ql (especially ctf) seem almost designed to showcase how bad the ammo system really is. take the newest ctf map reflux. its got a rail on each side of mid. so the mid def basically just sits on it all the time and has infinite ammo for rail. not to mention the fact that every time an attacker dies and spawns back in base he picks a rail up on his way across. if this isnt bad item layout i dont know what is.

the main thing is that they need to do SOMETHING. just leaving the subscription plan as it is is apparently failing. hard. they need to change something about it. i've seen so so many ideas for it. they need to look at these, have a huge meeting. actually perhaps many meetings about these things. take the best ideas, make DECISIONS. then implement it. GDI TO HELL!!!!!

There's lots of people who agree with you, but most of us, including myslelf have thrown in the towel. After 3 years of the same results and especially after the last update, for which they had 3 months to prepare for, it's obvious noone at id, bethesda or zenimax cares about this game. Let em keep monetizing the few noobs left paying for the game, it won't last and they'll only have themselves to blame for that failure as they fugged up royally by splitting the playerbase and pitting noobs and veterans in the same servers. That might have worked in q3 8 years ago (when everyone was starting out at 0), but it was never going to work for ql since those same players have 8+ years of experience on the newbies entering ql for the first time and a big reason many of them exit the game the same day 2 hours later. Just a never ending cycle of bad decisions.

I think, when it's all said and done, people will come to their senses and realize this game never had any real oversight (testing, planning, etc). It wouldn't surprise me if sponge and sync acted alone without anyone checking up on their actions. We already know todd was spending most of his time on rage, so that could very well have been the case these last couple years.

"I think real fans of CPMA would rather just play CPMA, but if there are fans of Quake Live that would like to see further CPMA features in QL, it would do them a greater service if they specified what from CPMA they'd like to see."

This makes me a little sick really. If SyncError had been reading ESR a little more carefully he would see plenty of threads with suggestions, including those from CPMA and some not yet existing there. Ignorant motherfijsigjshiosn :(

did any of you actually question that this is an id title? cpma has nothing to do with id, why should they implement it? its like the developer of need for speed should throw in a slick tire model cause the community likes it. think ppl.

id software has nothing to do with cpma other than the game is the same game.

Haha, this was kind of my point. CPMA has everything to do with Quake Live, because they're both modified versions of Quake 3. I don't see why the fact that id didn't make CPMA is relevant, except as a practical obstacle. It doesn't affect the answer to the question 'would CPMA features in QL be a good thing'.

The problem is

While cooperation with some existing CPMA coders may be possible, the legal owner of the CPMA code is missing making any cooperation between the two teams difficult if not impossible.

But that's not necessarily a permanent state of affairs (as far as I know, the lead CPMA developer disappeared from the internet for a while due to serious real-life issues, but hasn't ruled out getting involved with CPMA again at some point), and it's not a reason for us to stop encouraging it in case it does become possible.

To dek: sorry, that first response of mine was rude for no good reason.

CPMA ? Nice, but still I'm waiting for defrag mode (for standard users, with official ladders ofc.) in ql badly. This one can really make ql community bigger, a lot of new players and old defragers would join to play.

I think it would be a brilliant addition. When you're sick of fragging, etc just do a few runs. Thing is I'd love to see the old maps in the state they were made in - never gonna happen in ql. mind i'd settle for the pdm's