Manapa wrote:
nowheat was asking for it to be defined! not if the label was applicable to anyone.

I was actually asking about both. My primary aim is to clarify the terms used to shorthand positions, and in the process needed folks to identify what camps they were in to see which views are represented here, which views we need to distinguish from which.

I keep getting the feeling that y'all mean me when you say "rebirth deniers" but as pedantic as I am, I cannot stand up when so called as I don't deny rebirth.