Ok relax Lewis fans!:lol1: I am not gonna come here and say Lennox ducked RUIZ, of all people. But I just don't understand why he would rather give up the WBA belt than fight him...yes, Ruiz was an ugly fighter with a boring style, but Lewis has been in such fights before. Why would he lose his undisputed championship rather than fighting Ruiz? I think there might be one reason: Lewis liked to bully his opponents. Ruiz was a bully himself and he was a strong man. Not stronger than Lewis, but Lewis wouldn't be able to bully him as much. I guess he knew from the Golota fight that Michael Grant was a wimp, I mean he got beaten up and bullied by a guy smaller than himself! Thats why he chose to fight Grant instead.

Ziggy Stardust

05-27-2011, 11:18 AM

Real simple: Grant was HBO's newest overhyped star and there was good money to be made matching him up with Lewis. Who the hell would want to televise a money losing stinker like a matchup with Ruiz? Hindsight maybe 20/20 but at the time Grant was thought of much more highly than Ruiz even by Ring Magazine. Everyone knew Ruiz was a joke and a particularly unwatchable joke at that.

Poet

joseph5620

05-27-2011, 11:46 AM

Real simple: Grant was HBO's newest overhyped star and there was good money to be made matching him up with Lewis. Who the hell would want to televise a money losing stinker like a matchup with Ruiz? Hindsight maybe 20/20 but at the time Grant was thought of much more highly than Ruiz even by Ring Magazine. Everyone knew Ruiz was a joke and a particularly unwatchable joke at that.
Poet

The truth.

The Smash

05-27-2011, 11:48 AM

I wish more fighters' had refused to fight Ruiz.

Ziggy Stardust

05-27-2011, 11:57 AM

I wish more fighters' had refused to fight Ruiz.

Amen Brother!

BigStereotype

05-27-2011, 12:02 PM

Real simple: Grant was HBO's newest overhyped star and there was good money to be made matching him up with Lewis. Who the hell would want to televise a money losing stinker like a matchup with Ruiz? Hindsight maybe 20/20 but at the time Grant was thought of much more highly than Ruiz even by Ring Magazine. Everyone knew Ruiz was a joke and a particularly unwatchable joke at that.

Poet

Harsh but true. I find the claim that Lewis ducked JOHN RUIZ to be laughable. It's John Ruiz, people. His nickname is the Quiet Man. Do the math.

Pastrano

05-27-2011, 02:28 PM

Harsh but true. I find the claim that Lewis ducked JOHN RUIZ to be laughable. It's John Ruiz, people. His nickname is the Quiet Man. Do the math.

Nobody claims he ducked him, but he did refuse to fight him...so technically he did duck him.:p

BigStereotype

05-27-2011, 02:43 PM

Nobody claims he ducked him, but he did refuse to fight him...so technically he did duck him.:p

You missed the sonnyboy/Carlos glory days, I see.

Pastrano

05-27-2011, 04:47 PM

You missed the sonnyboy/Carlos glory days, I see.

Who are they? I don't apreciate being compared to anyone around here anyway, thankyou.:rolleyes:

BigStereotype

05-27-2011, 05:58 PM

Who are they? I don't apreciate being compared to anyone around here anyway, thankyou.:rolleyes:

I wasn't comparing you, I was giving you an example of two guys who were INSISTENT that Lewis ducked the Boring Man. CarlosG still posts here and sonnyboyx stopped a while ago.

nomadman

05-27-2011, 06:11 PM

I wish more fighters' had refused to fight Ruiz.

Hahahahaha.

JAB5239

05-27-2011, 09:07 PM

real simple: Grant was hbo's newest overhyped star and there was good money to be made matching him up with lewis. Who the hell would want to televise a money losing stinker like a matchup with ruiz? Hindsight maybe 20/20 but at the time grant was thought of much more highly than ruiz even by ring magazine. Everyone knew ruiz was a joke and a particularly unwatchable joke at that.

Poet

end.....of.......thread!!!

fitefanSHO

06-01-2011, 12:09 PM

Back when Lewis was CHAMP, and I think maybe Ruiz had a strap, I was in a bookstore reading the new Ring Magazine and a guy next to me struck up a conversation about boxing and he proceeded to tell me that he was one of Ruiz's cornermen (feasible because this was in Massachusetts) and he told me that Lennox Lewis was ducking John Ruiz, or as he put it, "Lewis is definitely duckin Johnny!"

To this day, I :lol1: when I think about that conversation.

Lewis KO 2 Ruiz (if it ever happened, which luckily for Johnny, it never did)

ps, this guy was NOT Stoney...

crold1

06-02-2011, 12:02 AM

Off the top of my head, and haven't looked at this one in a minute, the whole thing was a political farce. Ruiz was the third WBA mando and was not the mando at all when the mess started. It was supposed to be Akinwande (a fight Lewis would have dumped the belt on because no way was anyone going to buy it and the first was a nuclear horror). Then Akinwande wasn't available due to illness so the WBA redid their ratings and somehow had Evander as mando. That wasn't going to float coming off 2 straight Holy-Lewis fights and Lewis and HBO started working on Grant. The WBA came up with what I believe they called a new formula and suddenly, voila, Ruiz #1, Holy #2. Lewis sued to keep his belt and offered Ruiz the slot that went ultimately to Botha. The WBA AGREED to let the stay happen. Ruiz, through promoter Don King, took it to U.S. court and the court ruled that the Lewis-Holy contract rightly called for Lewis to fight the WBA mando first and stripped him.

Fair enough on the letter BUT Lewis went to all those lengths and Ruiz had only to wait for July 2000. Ruiz was taken in another direction (pure speculation here but always assumed DK thought Holy would blitz Ruiz and then he could foster hype for Lewis III based off the vocal minority who thought Holy stole the rematch with Lewis).

If anyone ducked, it was Team Ruiz.

Here's some old sources: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/columnists/article-231068/Ruiz-gets-Lewis-tilt-WBA-backs-off.html

It would have been brutal and one-sided. For all his boringness, Ruiz was very tough. Forget how Tua ragdolled him, Tua and Lewis are very different fighters. Also I think anyone receiving that sort of punishment from Tua would end up in the same condition.

I see a corner or ref stoppage fairly early, if not a knockout, Lewis' right hand coming out to play early and making it fairly obvious this is a mismatch.

What gets me about Ruiz is one of his early fights I saw, when he went in quick, hard and got an early knockout... What could have been...

McGoorty

10-13-2011, 07:15 AM

Ok relax Lewis fans!:lol1: I am not gonna come here and say Lennox ducked RUIZ, of all people. But I just don't understand why he would rather give up the WBA belt than fight him...yes, Ruiz was an ugly fighter with a boring style, but Lewis has been in such fights before. Why would he lose his undisputed championship rather than fighting Ruiz? I think there might be one reason: Lewis liked to bully his opponents. Ruiz was a bully himself and he was a strong man. Not stronger than Lewis, but Lewis wouldn't be able to bully him as much. I guess he knew from the Golota fight that Michael Grant was a wimp, I mean he got beaten up and bullied by a guy smaller than himself! Thats why he chose to fight Grant instead.
I have no idea as to why...... But I think it would have been a VERY short fight,... if Lewis didn't take Ruiz out early,...... I'd say he was a bludger.

McGoorty

10-13-2011, 07:22 AM

It would have been brutal and one-sided. For all his boringness, Ruiz was very tough. Forget how Tua ragdolled him, Tua and Lewis are very different fighters. Also I think anyone receiving that sort of punishment from Tua would end up in the same condition.

I see a corner or ref stoppage fairly early, if not a knockout, Lewis' right hand coming out to play early and making it fairly obvious this is a mismatch.

What gets me about Ruiz is one of his early fights I saw, when he went in quick, hard and got an early knockout... What could have been...
Bob Fitzsimmons says that all a big guy has to learn is how to use his size and weight. Bob says that you DO train a HW differently.... to an extent only of course, the fundamentals are basically the same of course but a big man is physiologically different, there are different tactics..... or so the great one says..... I being an amateur, will not argue with one such as he.

bojangles1987

10-13-2011, 08:42 AM

Lewis ducked him because Ruiz would have won. Lewis would have gotten so bored beating the crap out of Ruiz and getting clinched that he would have fallen asleep in the 12th round, along with everyone else, and when we woke up a second later Ruiz would have been standing over a passed out Lennox. We would all assume Lennox get knocked out and Ruiz would be declared the winner.

crold1

10-13-2011, 09:07 AM

Ok relax Lewis fans!:lol1: I am not gonna come here and say Lennox ducked RUIZ, of all people. But I just don't understand why he would rather give up the WBA belt than fight him...yes, Ruiz was an ugly fighter with a boring style, but Lewis has been in such fights before. Why would he lose his undisputed championship rather than fighting Ruiz? I think there might be one reason: Lewis liked to bully his opponents. Ruiz was a bully himself and he was a strong man. Not stronger than Lewis, but Lewis wouldn't be able to bully him as much. I guess he knew from the Golota fight that Michael Grant was a wimp, I mean he got beaten up and bullied by a guy smaller than himself! Thats why he chose to fight Grant instead.

This would be a great theory if there weren't facts that explain the situation entirely.

To get the Holyfield unification, Lewis had to sign on to face the WBA mando next. The WBA mando ended up being Akinwande, someone Lewis had beaten and a rematch was unsellable. Lewis made clear he was going to Grant, partiocularly because Akinwande still had Hepatitis and wasn't able to fight. The WBA reworked the 'forumla' to determine mandos and came up with...Holyfield. No move had been made to strip because Akinwande and Holyfield would have looked terrible as being stripped for. King lobbied and the WBA magic 'formula' suddenly had Ruiz up top off his victory, I believe, over Tucker.

Lewis appealed.

The WBA agreed to allow him to keep the belt, with Lewis offering Ruiz the immediate shot after Grant (which went to Botha). King/Ruiz sued, Lewis fought it in court on the same grounds (offering next shot)...and lost.

Ruiz faced Holyfield. Lewis moved on. This is all well documented.

Don King/Team Ruiz could have waited a few months to get either a shot at the undisputed title or, if Grant had won, take their stripped belt then. They didn't, nor was Ruiz the mando at the start of the madness.

If anyone ducked, Ruiz ducked Lewis (though I doubt the fighter had much to do with it).

crold1

10-13-2011, 09:09 AM

end.....of.......thread!!!

Not really. See my post below. There were actual events not only vindicating Lewis against the duck, but proving Ruiz's team moved HIM away from Lewis.

:)

Kid McCoy

10-13-2011, 09:52 AM

This would be a great theory if there weren't facts that explain the situation entirely.

To get the Holyfield unification, Lewis had to sign on to face the WBA mando next. The WBA mando ended up being Akinwande, someone Lewis had beaten and a rematch was unsellable. Lewis made clear he was going to Grant, partiocularly because Akinwande still had Hepatitis and wasn't able to fight. The WBA reworked the 'forumla' to determine mandos and came up with...Holyfield. No move had been made to strip because Akinwande and Holyfield would have looked terrible as being stripped for. King lobbied and the WBA magic 'formula' suddenly had Ruiz up top off his victory, I believe, over Tucker.

Lewis appealed.

The WBA agreed to allow him to keep the belt, with Lewis offering Ruiz the immediate shot after Grant (which went to Botha). King/Ruiz sued, Lewis fought it in court on the same grounds (offering next shot)...and lost.

Ruiz faced Holyfield. Lewis moved on. This is all well documented.

Don King/Team Ruiz could have waited a few months to get either a shot at the undisputed title or, if Grant had won, take their stripped belt then. They didn't, nor was Ruiz the mando at the start of the madness.

If anyone ducked, Ruiz ducked Lewis (though I doubt the fighter had much to do with it).

My take was King always wanted a Holy-Ruiz fight for the vacant WBA title. It looks to me like he was just trying to manoeuvre Lewis out of the belt by giving him a mandatory he had no interest in fighting (and realistically, someone King probably didn't want to face Lewis anyway) and that's exactly how it played out. Lewis moves on, King gets control of the belt.

Scott9945

10-13-2011, 11:06 AM

My take was King always wanted a Holy-Ruiz fight for the vacant WBA title. It looks to me like he was just trying to manoeuvre Lewis out of the belt by giving him a mandatory he had no interest in fighting (and realistically, someone King probably didn't want to face Lewis anyway) and that's exactly how it played out. Lewis moves on, King gets control of the belt.

If anything, Lewis was ducking Don King rather than Ruiz. Lewis hated doing business with King and avoided him as much as possible. If I'm not mistaken, the only times Lennox fought on a King promotion was when DK overpaid for the Tucker mandatory fight, and the two Holyfield fights.

GJC

10-13-2011, 03:05 PM

If anything, Lewis was ducking Don King rather than Ruiz. Lewis hated doing business with King and avoided him as much as possible. If I'm not mistaken, the only times Lennox fought on a King promotion was when DK overpaid for the Tucker mandatory fight, and the two Holyfield fights.
That's how I read it. Between King's games and the corrupt sanctioning bodies, to keep the HW title unified if you aren't a King fighter, you'd probably have to fight twice a week

Scott9945

10-13-2011, 05:31 PM

That's how I read it. Between King's games and the corrupt sanctioning bodies, to keep the HW title unified if you aren't a King fighter, you'd probably have to fight twice a week

King always wanted options on anyone who fought his guy, not to mention his other legendary sleazy tactics. Bowe, Lewis, and the Klitschko's all avoided doing business with him. Holyfield only did to get the Tyson fight.

JAB5239

10-13-2011, 05:33 PM

Not really. See my post below. There were actual events not only vindicating Lewis against the duck, but proving Ruiz's team moved HIM away from Lewis.

:)

I was mistaken. Nice post Cliff. :hail:

TBear

10-13-2011, 05:51 PM

I really doubt Don King wanted Lewis anyways. Don King wanted a champion by any means necessary and putting Ruiz in the ring with Lewis would not have gotten him a titlist. King most likely knew a vacant title would his best chance.