(06-08-2015 07:34 AM)yakherder Wrote: Out of curiosity I glanced at lightning statistics and couldn't help but notice that men are about four times as likely to die from it as women. Who would have guessed lightning is sexist?

It's because they get hit when their wives send them out in the storm to take the rubbish out.

That number didn't account for suicides and justified shootings. According to FBI there was 14,000+ murders in US in 2013 (non fatal shootings X times more than that) , and it really doesn't matter if it was a mass murder or a single murder. Still remains that you are far more likely to be murdered/shot in US then to be hit by a lighting.

And btw, I find that argument to be very flawed anyway. It's like saying why would you care about driving safely when more people die from heart attacks or cancer then in car accidents.

You already have more guns per capita in the whole world, having even more guns hardly seems like a good solution.

According to the FBI website:

Quote:The FBI’s Uniform Crime Reporting (UCR) Program collects supplementary homicide data that provide the age, sex, and race of the murder victim and offender; the type of weapon used; the relationship of the victim to the offender; and the circumstance surrounding the incident. Statistics gleaned from these supplemental data are provided in this section.

This section also includes information about justifiable homicide—certain willful killings that must be reported as justifiable or excusable. In the UCR Program, justifiable homicide is defined as and limited to:

The killing of a felon by a peace officer in the line of duty.
The killing of a felon, during the commission of a felony, by a private citizen.
Because these killings are determined through law enforcement investigation to be justifiable, they are tabulated separately from murder and nonnegligent manslaughter. Justifiable homicide information can be found in Expanded Homicide Data Table 14, “Justifiable Homicide, by Weapon, Law Enforcement, 2009–2013” and Expanded Homicide Data Table 15, “Justifiable Homicide, by Weapon, Private Citizen, 2009–2013.”

Overview
Of the 12,253 murder victims in 2013 for which supplemental data were received, most (77.7 percent) were male. (Based on Expanded Homicide Data Table 1.)
Concerning murder victims for whom race was known, 51.7 percent were black, 45.7 percent were white, and 2.5 percent were of other races. Race was unknown for 147 victims. (Based on Expanded Homicide Data Table 2.)
Nearly 47 percent (46.7) of all murders for which the UCR Program received supplemental data were single victim/single offender situations. (See Expanded Homicide Data Table 4.)
Of the offenders for whom gender was known, 89.3 percent were male. (Based on Expanded Homicide Data Table 3.)
An examination of data regarding the offenders for whom race was known showed that 53.6 percent were black, 43.9 percent were white, and 2.5 percent were of other races. The race was unknown for 4,112 offenders. (Based on Expanded Homicide Data Table 3.)Sixty-nine percent of the homicides for which the FBI received weapons data in 2013 involved the use of firearms. Handguns comprised 68.4 percent of the firearms used in murder and nonnegligent manslaughter incidents in 2013. (Based on Expanded Homicide Data Table 8.)
In incidents of murder for which the relationships of murder victims and offenders were known, 55.9 percent were killed by someone they knew (acquaintance, neighbor, friend, boyfriend, etc.); 24.9 percent of victims were slain by family members. The relationship of murder victims and offenders was unknown in 45.5 percent of murder and nonnegligent manslaughter incidents in 2013. (Based on Expanded Homicide Data Table 10.)
Of the female murder victims for whom the relationships to their offenders were known, 36.6 percent were murdered by their husbands or boyfriends. (Based on Expanded Homicide Data Tables 2 and 10.)
Of the murders for which the circumstances surrounding the crimes were known, 39.6 percent of victims were murdered during arguments (including romantic triangles) in 2013. Felony circumstances (rape, robbery, burglary, etc.) accounted for 24.4 percent of murders. Circumstances were unknown for 36.2 percent of reported homicides. (Based on Expanded Homicide Data Table 11.)Law enforcement reported 742 justifiable homicides in 2013. Of those, law enforcement officers justifiably killed 461 felons, and private citizens justifiably killed 281 people during the commission of crimes. (See Expanded Homicide Data Tables 14 and 15.)

Crunching the numbers, we get a figure of 7713 gun murders that weren't legally justified, slightly more than half the number you posted.

(06-08-2015 09:45 AM)onlinebiker Wrote: Also -- civilians AND police do NOT "shoot to kill".

They shoot to STOP --- that is, you shoot to stop an aggressor - and quit shooting as soon as the aggressor quits being a threat.... If you shoot again, past that point - you're using excessive force.

You shoot for "center mass" of the available target (whatever you can see). It just happens that that is frequently fatal to the aggressor, and their problem, not yours....

Yeah, fair enough. I'm not really familiar with terminology 'cos I don't play with guns... But if some gorilla with an axe is coming straight for me I'm gonna aim straight for whatever's easiest to hit and probably shoot more than once to make sure. So whether you call it stopping or killing, the likelihood is that your boy isn't gonna be doing much talking after the fact.

We'll love you just the way you are
If you're perfect -- Alanis Morissette

(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote: And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.