Back in 2010, when Karen De La Carriere (Indy OSA herself) was calling me on the phone, trying to get me to stop criticizing L Ron Hubbard and the technology of Scientology on the Internet, she would quote L Ron Hubbard over and over to me, yelling “PR is overt! Intelligence is COVERT! INTELLIGENCE BEGINS AND ENDS COVERTLY!!!”

She told me about her years as an intelligence operative in the defense department "socializing" with defense dept contractors to see who might be leaking confidential information. And she also told me about all the years she worked on Operations against Scientology’s “enemies” at OSA Int. I think she thought she was impressing me, but she was actually making me sick. I’d worked for OSA on one project, and that was enough to teach me what kind of person would continue to work for OSA on a second project – let alone for 5 and a half years at OSA Int.

So, with all her intelligence training, what was Karen thinking yesterday when she admitted to paying Marty Rathbun money because he was doing work that she wanted done?

If you’ll remember back in September of 2016, Marty wrote that a dispute arose between Karen De La Carriere and Marty over her attempt to get him to publish unseemly session data and OSA ethics handlings that she was involved in with Ron Miscavige, Sr. – David Miscavige’s father.

Here’s what Marty wrote at the time:

“A few years ago Karen offered me thousands of dollars to indict and convict Ron Miscavige of that very rape charge on my blog. She said that Ron had confessed the crime to her in Clearwater Florida in the eighties and she wanted to publish it. She said it was fair game for publication because even though Karen was a Scientology counsellor at the Clearwater facility at the time of the confession, Ron had admitted the crime outside the four walls of a counselling session. She said that Ron told her, “Karen, I don’t know what got into me. I lost my mind. I got rough with that girl. I raped her”, referring to the woman outside Philadelphia who had so accused him. She referred to Ron Miscavige as a predator who needed to be put away for the protection of society.’​

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“I told Karen that rape is a serious charge for a he-said/she-said accusation and I would not be taking the subject up. Karen pressed me with a plea that it would do all manner of harm to David Miscavige and Scientology. I informed Karen as I had on numerous occasions that that was not my purpose nor the purpose of my forum and that until she and others evolved from such hateful motivations they would continue to live the miserable existences they did. I also reiterated what I told her several times: that I never allowed editorial influence no matter how generous one was with donations to the blog.’​

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“This business with trying to get me to publish Ron’s confession occurred while Ron was still with Scientology’s priesthood (the Sea Organization). So, here is the lesson in ASC ethics. A confessed rapist who is a Scientologist deserves life in the penitentiary. A confessed rapist who is an anti-scientologist deserves sainthood and the best defense money can buy. If you are with ASC against Scientology, you can get away with murder (or at least violent rape). If you don’t toe the party line, you are “bought off” or worse and are fair game for attack by those who themselves have long-since sold themselves. Kettle, meet pot.”​

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It was quite a post when Marty wrote it, and with Karen’s new admission on Tuesday that she paid Marty money in this same time period, she makes that post remain just as relevant today. Here’s what she said in multiple fora on the Post-Scientology Internet on Tuesday:​

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It’s almost as if she is piling-on to this whole “revelation” from Tony Ortega that Marty Rathbun settled with David Miscavige and is now an OSA Agent, isn’t it? Like she considers Marty Rathbun “dead” or something, and this will be his final nail in the coffin. Yet the sole piece of evidence of Tony’s smug assertion that he has been making since last April that Marty is a turncoat spy is a single email that an Israeli Church attorney claims he received from Marty Rathbun with no evidence at all to back that up – and no information on how that Church lawyer got that email.​

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How can a document that appears in a court of law, anywhere in the world, have no proof for how it was obtained?​

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This is what Marty claimed back in September to have firsthand knowledge of at that time:​

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“Kept-man second-class Tony Ortega does accept money for publishing salacious content. That is how he makes his living.”​

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You know, I’ve seen enough ham-handed OSA-style Dead Agent Operations in my life in and around Scientology to be alert to when I might be seeing another one. This is where everyone in Scientology-Watching should be alert and awake to what they are being fed.​

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I think there’s much more to this Israeli Church attorney’s email story that is yet to be learned.​

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At least we now know that Marty’s story about Karen trying to get Marty to attack David Miscavige’s father, and Marty refusing, is probably true, thanks to Karen herself.​

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No one is saying here that these questions I’m asking have answers yet. They don’t. But they need answers, and you should not consider that anyone has answers to anything until their answers have arrived.​

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Always remember to keep thinking and to keep asking questions in this murky world of OSA-trained Exes such as Karen De La Carriere, Mike Rinder, Marty Rathbun and others on the Post Scientology Internet. I have learned the hard way that things are not always as their OSA-trained, overt Black PR makes them seem.​

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For more stories of what it is like to work directly with Indy OSA, by people who were there, be sure to read the comments section on Marty’s blog post that day. There are some wild stories there that will make you keep your eyes wide open.​

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And maybe a few more people will wake up to the very real possibility that we might very well be BEING PLAYED.​

These OSA trained Int Base Scientologists changed everything in the Ex community when they all left Int Base and met up on the outside at the same time in 2009/2010.​

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We - as in Ex-Scientologists - and not Int Base Exes - have been feeling the effects of it to this day.​

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Karen De La Carriere has a (now) admitted career working for the Department of Defense "socializing" with defense contractors in order to obtain personal information about them to see if they are leaking any information on confidential contracts. That is what she told me in 2010, and when I revealed it in this post 4 or 5 years ago, she repreatedly called me a liar and insane.​

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And then, years later, this turns up on her own LinkedIn Page:​

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Could a trained intelligence officer exploit the vulnerabilities of Ex-Scientologists who are simply trying to figure out their life choices inside a 'cult' that she reigned over as the former "Queen of Scientology"? How did she get Int clearance with an intelligence background like this, any way?​

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Are what we are reading and seeing from these people just more emotional manipulation from people who are trained and drilled to do so?​

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The question should be asked, and the underlying hypocrisies should be known if Ex-Scientologists are going to have the information necessary to think critically and make informed decisions about what information they are being fed.​

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As Ex-Scientologists, are we ever going to get to the truth of anything with operatives like this making the waters even more murky for us?​

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This is the context for other posts I've written about Karen De La Carriere in the past, and will continue to write in the near future.​

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So hang on, and strap in. This last week of ESMB is going to be one big bumpy night.​

And the Emmy for best performance in a lead role as an OSA operative goes to...

...drum roll...

ALANZO !!!!!

This will be Alanzo's first win after 323,892 nominations.

What do you think cinched it for you this year?

Well, persistence paid off. You know what Ol Ron says about persistence. Well, I used that, like all the other tech that I use in my life. I've got them eating right out of my hands. Give me an ack, ok? Gotta go to the after dinner party.

Nobody seems to care, possibly because we are no longer in a cult and are aware of boundaries and decency.

We don't have to take sides or get involved in crazy internet fights just because someone is trying to 'encourage' us to, it's insulting that someone would even try.

Every ex scientologist has the right to run their life their way very much including Karen, Mike Rinder and Marty. Opinions from other exes are almost certainly irrelevant to them and have been since the day they walked away from the cult, and that is as it should be.

We are all free now, all on an equal footing.

There are no heroes and there are no demons, just people getting on with their lives their way. Anything they do (good or bad) is their own personal business, just like everyone else. Normal people don't critique each other and make demands.

ESMB was not set up for culty, personal attacks and dirty tricks campaigns on exes ... though it looks as if it will be remembered for them.

Alanzo - you and Marty Rathbun are making the waters murkey with your confusion tech.

You select information that you think is going to turn people against Karen.

Karen is very successful. She is living a wonderful life; selling beautiful art, living with her husband out in LA and enjoying the finer things in life. She is doing something about Scientology to help people from getting hurt. She is a valuable asset to society. She is trying to do the right thing and it is obviously working for her because she has a wonderful life.

You are not doing any damage to Karen at all. People are laughing at you. Your tactics are clearly OSA.

Besides posting on EXSMB your hate to confuse the lurker about powerful SP's like Karen, Mike Rinder, Leah Remini, in attempt to confuse the lurker and the newbie from finding out the truth that Scientology is a horrible hoax, what are you doing?

What are you doing that is valuable to society?

You got into Scientology because you wanted to help. How are you helping our planet?

Think about it. Would you want your child to get into Scientology? Do something productive to help people. You are making an ass out of yourself.

I don't know whether I should really contribute to this thread, but in case anyone is interested in the actual truth...

Heber's job for OSA was being a PR spokesperson for Scientology.

Karen's job was being Heber's assistant.

It was managing Heber's schedule. Making appointments for media, other religious heads. Sort of an admin assistant.

As it has been described: "a glorified secretary".

It's getting kind of tiresome to see these dramatic rants from someone who had and has zero firsthand knowledge of anything that he's going on and on about.

Click to expand...

Karen was in the cult and is now out of the cult doing some great damage to Scientology by exposing the truth. She is relentless. She has helped many people leave and stay out. She puts her ass on the line everyday with OSA attacking her and trying to destroy her.

She is resiliant and she persists. She is living a good life and good things are happening for her because she is doing the right thing.

What has Alanzo done to help the lurker, the newbie? Post hate? No wonder he is broke.

Why is this board here? I thought it was a safe place to come to deprogram and decompress from Scientology.

Alanzo - you and Marty Rathbun are making the waters murkey with your confusion tech.

You select information that you think is going to turn people against Karen.

Karen is very successful. She is living a wonderful life; selling beautiful art, living with her husband out in LA and enjoying the finer things in life. She is doing something about Scientology to help people from getting hurt. She is a valuable asset to society. She is trying to do the right thing and it is obviously working for her because she has a wonderful life.

You are not doing any damage to Karen at all. People are laughing at you. Your tactics are clearly OSA.

Besides posting on EXSMB your hate to confuse the lurker about powerful SP's like Karen, Mike Rinder, Leah Remini, in attempt to confuse the lurker and the newbie from finding out the truth that Scientology is a horrible hoax, what are you doing?

What are you doing that is valuable to society?

You got into Scientology because you wanted to help. How are you helping our planet?

Think about it. Would you want your child to get into Scientology? Do something productive to help people. You are making an ass out of yourself.

Click to expand...

I'm with Alonzo, it is more nuanced than "Karen good, Scientology bad".

There is a lot going on behind the scenes. The "FreeZone" devolved into something even more bizarre than the most SciFi parts of Scientology. The anti-scientology crusade has many of the same elements we hated about the church. Those outside the church are broken into minute factions while the church keeps its mouth shut and collects the money!

All the drama! Entrenched thought, bristling at other entrenched thought.

Americans greatest philosopher, Rodney King, once said: "Why can't we all just get along?".

Indeed. Why?

I posit that it is because each of us are unwilling to fully experience the life, thoughts and experiences of others. It is too hard. Too painful. But necessary.

As was famously said in the film "Animal House," attributed to Faber College founder Emil Faber: "Knowledge is good." With that in mind, I pass along this reading material, which OSA-agents and non-OSA-agents alike may benefit from. Oddly enough the paperback book is significantly cheaper than the Kindle edition.

The Righteous Mind: Why Good People Are Divided by Politics and Religion
by Random House LLC

As was famously said in the film "Animal House," attributed to Faber College founder Emil Faber: "Knowledge is good." With that in mind, I pass along this reading material, which OSA-agents and non-OSA-agents alike may benefit from. Oddly enough the paperback book is significantly cheaper than the Kindle edition.

The Righteous Mind: Why Good People Are Divided by Politics and Religion
by Random House LLC

Part of the divide is that we have lost the face to face interaction we had with people in the past that encouraged civility. Our attention span has been reduced to sound bite/short video size and the partial anonymity of the internet has reduced the consequences of bad behavior.

I'm with Alonzo, it is more nuanced than "Karen good, Scientology bad".

There is a lot going on behind the scenes. The "FreeZone" devolved into something even more bizarre than the most SciFi parts of Scientology. The anti-scientology crusade has many of the same elements we hated about the church. Those outside the church are broken into minute factions while the church keeps its mouth shut and collects the money!

All the drama! Entrenched thought, bristling at other entrenched thought.

Americans greatest philosopher, Rodney King, once said: "Why can't we all just get along?".

Indeed. Why?

I posit that it is because each of us are unwilling to fully experience the life, thoughts and experiences of others. It is too hard. Too painful. But necessary.

Click to expand...

"I am with Alanzo" - what are you being righteous about Dave - HATE? "It is more nuanced than Karen good, Scientology bad". WTF does that mean. More confusion for the newbie. Explain yourself. Alanzo only does one thing - he is attacking critics who are doing something about Scientology like exposing the truth?

There is a lot going on behind the scenes. The "FreeZone" devolved into something even more bizarre than the most SciFi parts of Scientology. The anti-scientology crusade has many of the same elements we hated about the church. Those outside the church are broken into minute factions while the church keeps its mouth shut and collects the money!

Click to expand...

This is what I'd like to know more about, it seems to be like that but no one is talking.

He-man: You seem to be good at spreading a lot of confusion and changing the subject too. You don't contribute much either.

There is nothing going on behind the scenes. That is all the cooked up conspiracy shit OSA spins out there on the internet. The FREAK Zone has always been kooky and crazy. Non of the indie groups last long. They need OPPRESSION to Keep Scientology Working.

Why don't you do something to contribute to the group here. Besides pretending to dis Alanzo and then liking and agreeing with him.

He-man: You seem to be good at spreading a lot of confusion and changing the subject too. You don't contribute much either.

There is nothing going on behind the scenes. That is all the cooked up conspiracy shit OSA spins out there on the internet. The FREAK Zone has always been kooky and crazy. Non of the indie groups last long. They need OPPRESSION to Keep Scientology Working.

Why don't you do something to contribute to the group here. Besides pretending to dis Alanzo and then liking and agreeing with him.

"I am with Alanzo" - what are you being righteous about Dave - HATE? "It is more nuanced than Karen good, Scientology bad". WTF does that mean. More confusion for the newbie. Explain yourself. Alanzo only does one thing - he is attacking critics who are doing something about Scientology like exposing the truth?