I drive a school bus and I can tell you from experience that YOUR children (most but not all) act differently when out of your sight.

Here is a teacher and bus driver saying the same thing. But as you read further you see that the "not all" doesn't apply to the rest of what they say. This is what I am trying to get across. The "BAD" kids suck in the "GOOD" kids. Now the good kids are punished. They got caught the one time they stepped out of line. Where as the bad kids, who are use to sneakiness and getting away with things go unpunished. And as soon as these "good" kids get caught, the faculty takes the above stance. (they are not good, they are bad little goody two shoes that have mommy and daddy wrapped around their little finger blah blah blah blah....)

I am not talking about just my kids. My kids got punished, deserved it, and I extended the punishment at home. But there were times they were not at fault.

But I suppose that goes along with what people say about wrongly convicted criminals. They might not be guilty of this crime but they have probably done something to deserve it.

Back when I was in school. I would see people get punished for things they didn't do, good kids, just because the teacher "THOUGHT" they did it. And some times another student would advise the teacher that that person had nothing to do with it, and then that student was also labeled a trouble maker and punished, just for saying the teacher was wrong.

When you (everybody) and even more so teachers, principles, bus drivers, throw all the kids into one pot, that being all kids are bad, then the system is failing them. There is more to learning than reading, ritiing, and rithmatick. Are you teaching them to distrust authority? They will be punished wrongly, or excessively.

Now to one of the examples I saw on the television show.

It is always wrong to be talking in class. If the kid was in trouble for that than great, wonderful, he deserved it. If he was trying to answer questions directed at him in a language the teacher couldn't understand and refused to answer her in English, then deservedly he should be punished.

BUT.... Mr. Principle was telling this kid that he could not speak Turkish to his Turkish friends not only in class but not in the hallway or anywhere on school property.

Come to Texas and tell them they can't speak Spanish to their friends. :roll:

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:rainbowflower: Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak. :rainbowflower:

I agree with everything JerryMac said. I by no means mean ALL kids. I have the best class I have ever had this year. Where we are failing is in common sense. It's all this equity crap. If both kids are fighting then they both get the same punishment no matter what-BS. But the way that came about is administrators got tired of being constantly harassed by parents who would not believe their child was wrong--so just throw them all in the same boat--like you said. There is a lack of backbone at the top. I'm old school-I guess. That not speaking English in the school is rubbish--sounds like communism.

It all comes back to the parents. If parents really talk and listen to their kids, then the teachers won't automatically assume that the kid's bad and his/her parents are worse. If the parents show up for conferences, are involved and help out with schoolwork and seem to genuinely care, then these issues shouldn't come up very often. And yes, there are some exceptions.

I know my kid's teachers well. I know my kids well. I listen to them, and try very hard to balance out the competeing sides. And yes, most of the time my kids are wrong (5-20 y-o's don't have the best judgement!)

The teachers problems now days has more to do with the parents not every believing that little bobby can do any wrong.

But then again I'm choosing the school and paying a lot of money to send them there.

From personal experience what you are saying is wrong. When you have a bully with a few friends, they will give back twice what you give them. If you get one of them by himself and even manage to best him, the next day... or in the future... you will be visited by him and his friends.

That's what we're trying to tell you... he's gotta be willing to get beat up... his only goal is to get 1 good punch in... because he's going to get beat up anyway.

But the way that came about is administrators got tired of being constantly harassed by parents who would not believe their child was wrong--so just throw them all in the same boat--like you said. There is a lack of backbone at the top.

I have to respectfully disagree with the source, though I certainly agree that the problem is a lack of common sense in the school administrations. I think the source of that problem though, is all the "zero-tolerance" crap. Zero tolerance leaves zero room for common sense.

Here's an example of zero tolerance in action:Several years ago at a school kinda near here, a student had a seviere asthmatic attack, but had left her rescue inhaler at home. Another asthmatic student thought fast and gave her his rescue inhaler to save her life. He was expelled over the incident, because he was "distributing prescription drugs".

Now, I wish I could say that principal and school board lost their jobs over that, but they didn't. How can we expect our kids to learn how to think for themselves when our school officials refuse to do so?

From personal experience what you are saying is wrong. When you have a bully with a few friends, they will give back twice what you give them. If you get one of them by himself and even manage to best him, the next day... or in the future... you will be visited by him and his friends.

That's what we're trying to tell you... he's gotta be willing to get beat up... his only goal is to get 1 good punch in... because he's going to get beat up anyway.

I guess I will have to go into detail.

Day #1. Bully calls kid names and shoves him into locker.

#2 Bully trips kid in hall way

#3 Bully shoves kid

So on and so forth... just shoves trips name calling

Finally Kid gets mad and jumps onto Bully and gets in some really good hits.

Next day three guys jump on kid and he spends some time in hospital.

And that is better some how than the daily shoving and picking? What is your reasoning here?

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:rainbowflower: Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak. :rainbowflower:

I am a school bus driver and have been for the last 18 years. Around here the school administrators are responsible for discipline both in school and on the bus. In the elementary schools its the principal and in the high school its the assistant principals. Some of these administrators are caring individuals and are willing to take the time and make an effort to thoroughly investigate bullying incidents and to punish the wrong doers properly. Others are just interested in taking the minimum action they feel is necessary to cover their own ass.If I had a kid in school (all my kids are adults) and my kid was subject to bullying and then disciplined even though he/she did nothing wrong I would be in the principals office reading him/her the riot act. If the bully(s) was not disciplined I would do the same. If the principal did not satisfy my demands I would meet with the school superintendent. My next step would be a lawyer. Teaching your kid to be violent where violence is against the rules is poor parenting.

These are real situations. These are the situations that cause things to happen, bad things, think Columbine. Many many years ago a kid shot another over 25 cents at one if my old schools.

The superintendents and school boards and cops all say basically the same thing people have said here. Your kids are not the cute cuddly things you think they are. You can't arrest or prosecute under aged kids. Here the school policy claims that the school, on school days, is responsible for the child from the time it leaves the home in the morning until the time it gets back home in the afternoon. You are fighting the system. Some of us can't afford lawyers, time off from work and all the other crap it would take to take care of the problem legally.

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:rainbowflower: Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak. :rainbowflower:

Finally Kid gets mad and jumps onto Bully and gets in some really good hits.

Next day three guys jump on kid and he spends some time in hospital.

And that is better some how than the daily shoving and picking? What is your reasoning here?

My reasoning comes from having grown up with that scenario... being the one that got picked on frequently, at least until I outgrew my antagonizers... anyway, the ONE thing that I truely regret from my school experience, is not haivng decked one of those bullies when he was picking on another kid. Even if I had spent a month in the hospital, it would have been worth it.

I will agree that some of us can do something totally stupid and get away with it. But it doesn't work in all situations for everyone.

One of my tormentors wanted me to meet him at a certain place after school. I told him "nope, that won't do." I then told him what door I went out of after school and the route I took to get home. And if he wanted to kick my but he could meet me anywhere along there.

I left school just as I told the guy and sure enough he was waiting for me. I walked up tp him and stopped and waited. After a bit I told him he needed to get started kicking my *** because I really needed to get home and get my chores done. He did nothing. I said that I had to go and went around him and proceeded home. And he never bothered me again. It is true he was one that would torment someone as long as they were afraid of him. He either thought I was totally nuts or there was something there he better not mess with. But that was me against one guy.

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:rainbowflower: Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak. :rainbowflower:

From personal experience what you are saying is wrong. When you have a bully with a few friends, they will give back twice what you give them. If you get one of them by himself and even manage to best him, the next day... or in the future... you will be visited by him and his friends.

That's what we're trying to tell you... he's gotta be willing to get beat up... his only goal is to get 1 good punch in... because he's going to get beat up anyway.

Obviously you were never one of the ones that was taking the beating.these jerks don't go away just because you got in 1 good hit,and you rarely ever catch them alone.

My approach was that if the Principle wanted to punish my kid for fighting in school it was okay as long as everyone else involved was punished too. If my child was the only one caught and selected for punishment I would tell the Prinicple he could punish my child at the same time and to the same degree as he punished everyone else involved. No punishment for others ment no punishment for my child or I would see him in court. 2 of my kids got expelled for 3 days each for fighting, along with 10 other kids.

My kids were not bullies and they were not bullied because they never got punished for being the victim.

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Life is a school. What have you learned? :brian: The greatest danger to our society is apathy, vote in every election!

Obviously you were never one of the ones that was taking the beating.these jerks don't go away just because you got in 1 good hit,and you rarely ever catch them alone.

Oh I took a lot of beatings from about 4th grade up into about 8th grade... mostly because I didn't fight back like I should have. It really doesn't matter if there's one of them or ten of them... you can always get one good shot in before you get pounded to the ground, and since you're going to get pounded into the ground anyway... you might as well blacken one of their eyes... or bloody one of their noses. Believe me, they will move on to easier prey that won't fight back if you do that every time.