What? So the Catholic church wants to grow its church through a natural growth rate of its members and they choose to support the right of those possible babies lives.

The real problem is that they don't want to pay for contreception or abortions. But the all knowing Obama and the rest of population reducing socialists love population control since popualtion growth is destroying the planet.

This whole issue stems from the train wreck anti-personal choice of Obama non health-care that forces people to do things that they don't want to because an out of control Big Government knows better than the people. Also, Obama is attacking the church by telling them despite what you believe you will do as I say.

This whole dispute just shows each of us if still love personal freedom it is time to vote out Obama and every other green progressive liberal socialist out of office. Either you want freedom of you want a NANNY who will have control over you from the cradle to the grave...

faisst wrote: Atheism and agnosticism grows every day, as the younger generation has the internet, they are more readily given information otherwise denied to them, they can quickly fact check the lies they are told in church, religion's homophobia turns more and more youth off of religion and drives them into questioning their faith.

LOL.

You don't spend much time around "the younger generation" much, do you buddy? While gay issues may be your cause du jour, in reality many of "the younger generation" couldn't care less either way. Kids of today are more sophisticated and, while they do understand the churches are not perfect by any measure, they also understand that bitter progressives are no closer to the truth. Kids of today know how to formulate their own opinions and find where the truth lies...usually somewhere between religion's extremes and you and your extremes. They aren't going to listen to you any more than they will listen to the pope. Now, please get over yourself.

How to win a culture war and lose a generation

When asked by The Barna Group what words or phrases best describe Christianity, the top response among Americans ages 16-29 was “antihomosexual.” For a staggering 91 percent of non-Christians, this was the first word that came to their mind when asked about the Christian faith. The same was true for 80 percent of young churchgoers. (The next most common negative images? : “judgmental,” “hypocritical,” and “too involved in politics.”)

In the book that documents these findings, titled unChristian, David Kinnaman writes:

“The gay issue has become the ‘big one, the negative image most likely to be intertwined with Christianity’s reputation. It is also the dimensions that most clearly demonstrates the unchristian faith to young people today, surfacing in a spate of negative perceptions: judgmental, bigoted, sheltered, right-wingers, hypocritical, insincere, and uncaring. Outsiders say [Christian] hostility toward gays...has become virtually synonymous with the Christian faith.”

Later research, documented in Kinnaman’s You Lost Me, reveals that one of the top reasons 59 percent of young adults with a Christian background have left the church is because they perceive the church to be too exclusive, particularly regarding their LGBT friends. Eight million twenty-somethings have left the church, and this is one reason why.

Catholicism has more lapsed members than most U.S. denominations have faithful.

This is the main consequence of Catholic Church insistence on adhering to doctrines that have almost nothing to do with the actual scriptures and everything to do with control by one of the most hierarchical organizations — religious or otherwise — on the planet.

In the case of contraception, they remain opposed in the face of almost universal disregard and ridicule, not to mention in the face of an exploding population in the very parts of the world — many Catholic — that can least afford it.

This is what you get when you have a bunch of old men telling people how to live their lives you know like the republican party.

I don't agree with the Catholic church's stance on birth control any more than I agree with the Jewish faith's stance on eating pork or many Muslim guidelines on how women are to dress... but they beauty of it is, I'm not Catholic, Jewish, or Muslim, so none of that applies to me at all.

And despite all the claims and bluster I've read here, I haven't really ever seen any evidence that the Catholic Church has tried to inhibit me, a non-Catholic, from buying and using birth control. The only thing I've read about is that they don't want to be forced to provide it in Catholic hospitals, and I don't have a problem with that. Despite it being my right as an American to eat pork, I haven't heard of anybody trying to force a Jewish restaurant to serve me a ham sandwich, have you?

If you have a big problem with the Catholic Church's stance on birth control, then either pick another church if you're Catholic, or mind your own business if you aren't.

frederickus wrote:The problem is that the catholic church is now trying harder than ever to restrict access to reproductive health care. Benny The Rat just keeps on issuing edicts that even most catholics will never adhere to. Don't bother asking me to quote. Look it up for yourself. Oh, wait, you are catholic. You're supposed to know this stuff.

Oh, why don't you throw one of those scholarly wiki articles in there? Or how about one of the Yahoo! Answers pages the progressive haters are so fond of?

Better yet, explain how the catholic church is restricting healthcare to anyone outside of contraceptives and abortions? You can't...like most haters.

And why don't YOU explain why it's OK for them to restrict access to contraceptives?

Sorry, the church needs to wake up and smell the 21st century.

It's ok because it is against their teachings. What about this is so hard for you to understand? They don't want to fund contraception. If you want free birth control, go to another hospital. The catholics won't prevent you from doing that. Why are haters so bitter and dense?

What do priests and bishops know about sex or, for that matter, parenting? They take a vow of celibacy. Well, some do . . . others of them think that a healthy sex life involves molesting children.

The Catholic church has zero credibility on these issues. I grew up Catholic and I never have taken seriously the rantings against birth control propagated by the men in white collars. The church dogma is impractical, unrealistic, and the product of an obsession with preventing people from having sex.

It is disheartening to see that some other cults are going the same way, now. But, at least with regard to the evangelicals, one can't be surprised. The leaders of those religions seem to be as committed as the Catholic hierarchy to returning to the gender-based caste system thrown off in our nation only in the last few decades.

If they succeed, your daughters and sisters will live in a worse world, one in which they are denied the chance for a meaningful career, where they are defined only by their role as a mother, and where the old 50s-style winking and nodding toward epidemic sexual assaults and rape, sexual harassment, and gender discrimination will return with a vengeance.

When the Catholic church can deal with the reality that a good deal of its dogma is nonsensical, it might have a chance to grow again. Until then, many people like me who think being rational is more important than blindly following the current advice of a septuagenarian or octogenarian virgin sexist in the Vatican and his minions will march to our own drummer.

paparado wrote:And the Catholic Church doesn't stand in the way of women getting contraception, they just believe that they shouldn't be forced to pay/provide it.

It's that simple folks.

The issue I read here is the continued attack from the likes of this blatantly biased writer and the DP for their sensational headline..."Catholic Church defends birth-control stance amid strong opposition".

Most Americans including Catholics think the church is completely out of step with modern social norms in opposing contraception.

This is unsubstantiated, besides the Catholic Church is not a Democracy. Their beliefs are just that... beliefs. Those that choose to follow in their ways accept their doctrine. Followers are not fined for not believing.

Yet another attempt by Progressives/Democrats to force their will on others.

Well stated! You just have to laugh at all the little Haters in here who are hell-bent on shutting down every Church in America. They might want to buy a history book (two things Liberals aren't familiar with: History and books) and study up on a dude named Judas Maccabeus for openers.

They complain about the "oppression" of the church, yet they first thing they want to do is take away your Freedom of Religion and Freedom of Assembly. No wonder progressivism is the new communism - Joe Stalin would be proud!

Your comments in this post, as your other comments on this subject, are well stated. The Roman Catholic Church has been hated by most since the beginning. Not surprising. It's Founder said it would go that way. "Blessed are those who are persecuted for My sake" He said.

The Roman Empire couldn't quash/destroy/silence/stop the Church's proliferation no matter how many Faithful Catholics they killed/tortured/exiled/imprisoned, etc., so the likelihood of the Roman Catholic Church's 21st Century detractors/enemies, operating both inside and outside of the Church, accomplishing what the Roman Empire failed to do, is zero. What the enemies of the Church fail to realise is Who they're fighting against. If they did, they would know their battle is lost before it has even begun. Thankfully the survival of the Roman Catholic Church doesn't depend on the Pope, or the Priests, or the Laity [God knows over the past 2,000 yrs. the Catholic Church has had more than a few bad Popes, plenty of bad Priests, and multitudes of unfaithful Laity] and least of all, it's survival doesn't depend on man's Government.

The more Catholics are hated by the world, the stronger Faithful Catholics become. The more they persecute Faithful Catholics, the greater the Faithful Catholics Faith becomes. The greater the adversary becomes, the greater the Power that upholds the Church, it's teachings, and the Faithful within it manifests Itself. The only way the enemies of the Roman Catholic Church can silence the Faithful is by killing them. But they can't, nor will they, kill us all. The Roman Catholic Church, and it's teachings, will be until the end of time.

penaltyshot wrote:I don't agree with the Catholic church's stance on birth control any more than I agree with the Jewish faith's stance on eating pork or many Muslim guidelines on how women are to dress... but they beauty of it is, I'm not Catholic, Jewish, or Muslim, so none of that applies to me at all.

And despite all the claims and bluster I've read here, I haven't really ever seen any evidence that the Catholic Church has tried to inhibit me, a non-Catholic, from buying and using birth control. The only thing I've read about is that they don't want to be forced to provide it in Catholic hospitals, and I don't have a problem with that. Despite it being my right as an American to eat pork, I haven't heard of anybody trying to force a Jewish restaurant to serve me a ham sandwich, have you?

If you have a big problem with the Catholic Church's stance on birth control, then either pick another church if you're Catholic, or mind your own business if you aren't.

If you run a hospital that serves the public, hires people of multiple faiths, and takes taxpayer dollars (i.e., Medicare and Medicaid), you don't get to claim that religious beliefs exempt your hospital from public policy.

If the Catholic church has a problem with that, they should get out of the hospital business.

faisst wrote: Atheism and agnosticism grows every day, as the younger generation has the internet, they are more readily given information otherwise denied to them, they can quickly fact check the lies they are told in church, religion's homophobia turns more and more youth off of religion and drives them into questioning their faith.

LOL.

You don't spend much time around "the younger generation" much, do you buddy? While gay issues may be your cause du jour, in reality many of "the younger generation" couldn't care less either way. Kids of today are more sophisticated and, while they do understand the churches are not perfect by any measure, they also understand that bitter progressives are no closer to the truth. Kids of today know how to formulate their own opinions and find where the truth lies...usually somewhere between religion's extremes and you and your extremes. They aren't going to listen to you any more than they will listen to the pope. Now, please get over yourself.

What you speak is pure hyperbole, youth are leaving religion in droves, and they are leaning more towards liberalism and shunning the conservative right. Like you said, kids can think for themselves and formulate their own opinions, the exact opposite of what the religious right does in which they tell you what they want you to think, and you mindlessly obey.

I won't be told, I have a supernatural offer for you, and you can be redeemed if you believe just in me, and if you don't like it you can be tortured forever. I won't be talked to like that. That is the language of fascism and dictatorship. -Hitchens

Yankee47 wrote:This is why the Church teaches what it teaches as explained by Most Rev. James D. Conley:

The reasons for the correlation between abortion and contraception are clear. The use of contraception is predicated on the premise that we control our fertility. At the heart of the contraceptive mentality is the notion that a couple can engage in sexual activity and avoid its natural consequences. Couples who unintentionally conceive a child while using contraception are far more likely to turn to abortion.

The contraceptive mentality is predicated on the premise that we have absolute control over every aspect of our lives and that we have the right to live according to our own desires and plans.

This mentality subtlety chips away at our trust in and dependence on the providential care of God. It turns us more directly toward ourselves and our selfish wants. And it feeds an egoism in which our own desires and plans become the center of the universe. Gradually but steadily that egoism erodes our conscience.

The Church is right. That eogism has become pervasive and lies at the heart of both our social and also our econmic problems. If you disagree that's fine - just make the case for egoism.

And there you have it, from the horse's mouth.

The whole purpose of the Catholic anticontraception and prolife positions is to punish women for unapproved sexytime.

And the approved sexytime is grand. My wife's grandmother had 13 kids, not wanting one. Evidently, according to the her priests, it was God's plan to be repeatedly raped over thirty five years or so, until her sons could restrain their father and move her to a different room in the house.

The church is always being attacked by the press. The press and the media is constantly demonizing the church while supporting criminals, illegal drugs, and anything that Satan would support as well.

When the article states "most Americans" they really mean this writer for the Denver Post believes.

If you want to talk about criminals, just look at the catholic church, it is a safe haven for child molesters and thieves. No company in the world can come close to the corruption of the church.

I won't be told, I have a supernatural offer for you, and you can be redeemed if you believe just in me, and if you don't like it you can be tortured forever. I won't be talked to like that. That is the language of fascism and dictatorship. -Hitchens

I'm a little confused about the Catholic position on contraception. They oppose contraception but also abortion. How does that work? I mean, if you oppose abortion, shouldn't you support anything that reduces it, like contraception? Strange. Then, there's this "rhythm method" of contraception. That's okay with the Catholic hierarchy, right? But it IS a form of contraception, yes? Then... well, it is just weird.

On the other hand, why should we be surprised by contradictions in an organization informed by Middle Ages beliefs,attitudes, and values?

The church is always being attacked by the press. The press and the media is constantly demonizing the church while supporting criminals, illegal drugs, and anything that Satan would support as well.

When the article states "most Americans" they really mean this writer for the Denver Post believes.

No, E.S., the Post means "most Americans" including, as it turns out, most Catholic women. The Catholic church is attempting to control the minds and bodies of free women, and these women WILL NOT HAVE IT! It is not Satan at work here. It is YOU, and YOUR EVIL LEADERS whowant to perpetuate rumor, fear, and madness into the future. WE WILL NOT HAVE IT!

Quite Frankly you are about the free speech thing but I also believe the government needs to stay out of our personal lives period, which they can't seem to do.The catholic hospitals are a money making project for them and I can tell you that while I was a member we were bombarded all the time about giving them money as we were told "the sisters that run them are the poorest and needed our help". What poop that was. Boy would I love to see all the documents and etc in the Vatican, you know the ones they won't let anyone see. Ever wonder what they are hiding?

Last edited by racer on May 20th, 2012, 10:11 am, edited 1 time in total.

penaltyshot wrote:I don't agree with the Catholic church's stance on birth control any more than I agree with the Jewish faith's stance on eating pork or many Muslim guidelines on how women are to dress... but they beauty of it is, I'm not Catholic, Jewish, or Muslim, so none of that applies to me at all.

And despite all the claims and bluster I've read here, I haven't really ever seen any evidence that the Catholic Church has tried to inhibit me, a non-Catholic, from buying and using birth control. The only thing I've read about is that they don't want to be forced to provide it in Catholic hospitals, and I don't have a problem with that. Despite it being my right as an American to eat pork, I haven't heard of anybody trying to force a Jewish restaurant to serve me a ham sandwich, have you?

If you have a big problem with the Catholic Church's stance on birth control, then either pick another church if you're Catholic, or mind your own business if you aren't.

If you run a hospital that serves the public, hires people of multiple faiths, and takes taxpayer dollars (i.e., Medicare and Medicaid), you don't get to claim that religious beliefs exempt your hospital from public policy.

If the Catholic church has a problem with that, they should get out of the hospital business.

paparado wrote:And the Catholic Church doesn't stand in the way of women getting contraception, they just believe that they shouldn't be forced to pay/provide it.

It's that simple folks.

The issue I read here is the continued attack from the likes of this blatantly biased writer and the DP for their sensational headline..."Catholic Church defends birth-control stance amid strong opposition".

Most Americans including Catholics think the church is completely out of step with modern social norms in opposing contraception.

This is unsubstantiated, besides the Catholic Church is not a Democracy. Their beliefs are just that... beliefs. Those that choose to follow in their ways accept their doctrine. Followers are not fined for not believing.

Yet another attempt by Progressives/Democrats to force their will on others.

Let me tell you how simple it is: So long as the Catholic hospitals accept federal taxpayer money (in the form of Medicare and Medicaid), they should have to provide whatever services are approved by the federal government (including abortion and contraception). If they want to avoid having the will of others forced upon them, then they should stop taking taxpayer money. Simple.