whats wrong with chopping bolts??
just this morning i went around to the glen and chopped all the bolts on larger than life- it was all naturally protectable by bathooks, modified #0 rps & cable ties.and theres a bomber #12 bigbro placement in the ledge at the end. im going to leaveit all fixed in with araldite though,to save peoplethe inconvnience r carrying a rack up the climb.

On 16/06/2005 JCP wrote:>whats wrong with chopping bolts??>just this morning i went around to the glen and chopped all the bolts>on larger than life- it was all naturally protectable by bathooks, modified>#0 rps & cable ties.and theres a bomber #12 bigbro placement in the ledge>at the end. im going to leaveit all fixed in with araldite though,to save> peoplethe inconvnience r carrying a rack up the climb.

yes, but who is going to re-cable tie the route when they become mank?

NSW recabletieing fund? ill have you know, i ran some veryscientific tests justthen, and i discovered that cable ties are stronger and more secure than U botls!!!

re:ROCK article- yer that was a complete bullshit article by steph stewart. i think he lives in blackheath now, aparently his wife runs indigo duck (that 'magic happns' lookin shop near the friars)- if i ever happen to meet him it will be a very interestingn discussion indeed....

On 16/06/2005 Onsight wrote:>Good to hear that's really your position… because... I think if you can>justify what you’re advocating, then it’s not so hard to justify lots of>other things, like chopping bolts...>>Troll on...

Actually I wasn't trolling with that Onsight, merely pointing out practices which are already taking place globally as you must be aware. To say otherwise is naive...

All I am trying to point out is that is hypercritical on one hand to be so staunch anti something yet having climbed on a lot of these enhanced climbs. To try and avoid these climbs would leave you with a short tick list indeed.

Bringing up bolt chopping is merely poor form Onsight As if the cliff environment isn't stuffed up enough with all the other practices... The remains of bolt choppers activities are rarely in the interest of cliff preservation, due to the shocking mess often left behind - more usually the result of ego!

>re:ROCK article- yer that was a complete bullshit article by steph stewart.>i think he lives in blackheath now, aparently his wife runs indigo duck>(that 'magic happns' lookin shop near the friars)- if i ever happen to>meet him it will be a very interestingn discussion indeed....

i believe he actually wrote the article a fair while before it was embelished in rock. got a suprise when it was in print.

Its not about making a climb "sustained". Its all about accepting the challenge mother nature has thrown at us, if that means it a grade 29 with only one hard move so be it, why actively try and change something just to suit you???....

Bolts are not even close to being the same issue, a well placed bolt isn't designed to make something easier to climb, just means you wont deck or die. Yeah its a line in the sand but a common sense one.

If you cant do the route, walk away, plenty more rock out there..or better still accept the challenge and train up. And just because some ego driven souls in the past have done it, be it in Australia or overseas, dosn't give you any justification to do it again....the arguement that it happens elsewhere isn't an arguement.

Manufacturing routes sucks. If you climb something and it turns out to be a one move wonder then don't give it a star. Why do people feel the need to change the rock? Not every piece of rock is going to yield a sustained, consistent 3 star experience.
If you like manufacturing routes then get a job at a climbing gym!

Totally agree with you Rod, Simon and Shiltz. There is never any justification to chipping. There are heaps of top quality routes out there with bouldery cruxes. Just because one person likes sustained, power endurance climbing doesn't mean everyone does. If sustained routes are your thing then go find them, don't try and make them. If you want every route to be a three star classic perfectly suited to you, go set routes inside.

well i think it's time i stopped reading this thread and said my already-obvious thoughts (although pretty well covered so far). Climbing outdoors isn't about manufacturing a climb to suit you like you can do indoors. It's about getting experience and molding your body to suit the styles that mother nature throws at us. After all that's what indoors is replicating. Climbing in the outdoors is unpredictable in terms of weather, other conditions and the sustainablity of climbs. It's all out there for us to experience. My opinion is if you don't like a climb - leave it and go away to find something you do like. There is no point adding cruxes and changing something to suit you. The cliff belongs to no one (unless on private property where you can do whatever the hell you want) so I don't reckon we have the right to change stuff for very small benefits.

And yeah call me a hypocrite if i've ever climbed a manufactured climb (i don't research these things) but if the damage is done then it's done. I just don't think it should be encouraged.

Well I really hope this hasn't ruffled as many feathers as my points of view usually do :)
Cheerz
Steph