any filipinos here?

Well maybe one of the first things is to try and get a government that is not corrupt. I mean when your leaders don't care about the people and are only out for themselves then the people and country will suffer. But it seems if someone steps up for the people they are quickly assasinated and the cycle repeats itself. I would love to hear everyone elses thoughts.

Personally I think what the Philippines needs is a swift kick in the--oh wait, it's gotten that already? On its knees in pain already?

What it needs is a major moral and attitudinal change in the individuals (myself included). We don't usually do the "right" thing because it doesn't get us anywhere, at least where immediate benefits to self are concerned. So we do what will benefit us and our immediate family/friends, and to hell with the rest of the country. Corruption is simply a logical extension of this basic behavior.

There's just no long-term thinking in this land where a large majority of the people live a hand-to-mouth existence.

Would you venture to say that the corruption and myopic vision are a negative legacy of the Spanish? I've travelled quite a bit and was amazed to see the similarity in outlook, situation, and general malaise in Latin America. Guess all those centuries of preserving the estancia-hacienda system of exclusion has devolved into the current state of things..

I'm still astounded by the breadth of the Filipino dispersion throughout the world (and yes I know it's primarily because of cheap skilled labor)... If you ever are curious, watch TFC sometime and look at all the addresses for their contests/news etc...

Do most young people desire to leave, or is there a stay and fix thought process?

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I'd like to think I'm one of those people who'd like to stay and try to make things better. Unfortunately, even though this a country of the young (I think 60% are under 50 years old), and despite some cosmetic alterations, the government is still run by the old farts who've been here since the Marcos regime. Speaking of which...

Prince of Tennis said:

Bring back the Marcos regime...His son who is the current governor/mayor? of Ilocos Norte should step up.

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Absolutely not. Marcos and his cronies got this country in the deep financial deficit it's been in for two decades. His actions politicized the army, polarized society, and overall made it part of historical process to oust people instead of trying to remove them by legal means.

Prince of Tennis said:

The situation the president is in now wooooo in deep poo...

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It's actually not as chaotic as The Filipino Channel makes it look. There are a lot of noisy groups clamoring for her resignation, but they're actually a minority. The functional majority, which is the middle class, is so far taking a wait-and-see position and are more than willing to let an impeachment process take its course. Whether President Arroyo wants to resign should be up to her. Removal should only be through legal and constitutional means.

bookem said:

Would you venture to say that the corruption and myopic vision are a negative legacy of the Spanish?

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If you've seen it in other former Spanish colonies, I guess there could be a correlation there. Actually it could be part of a slave mentality fostered by the colonization, since the easiest way to make it in a society where you're a slave is to cheat your master. This has carried over to the present, where we Filipinos living here thumb our noses at the law and authorities (our "masters"). Though we may be liberated in terms of sovereignty and suffrage, the real slavery is in our minds.

Noelle, I am very, very impressed with your intelligent insight into these political and emotional issues. Especially for such a young person. Bookem, same thing. Both of you need to go way farther in terms of getting your views out to others. This could be in areas of politics, journalism or independent activism. If you represent the youth of the area, I would think it could not be in better hands. I do not know your ages or educational levels, but you have the ability to make an impression on someone with only a passing interest. Please keep it up.

Noelle... Interesting point about slave/master mentality. I'd probably take it one step further and suggest that another way for the slave to cope with the master is to leave the estate for a "better" life; unfortunately, from the various Filipino communities I've seen around the world, most of what results (particularly in the US) is that they themselves become self-congratulatory masters. Here's a funny albeit pathetic example: how many Filipino organizations are in a community? I honestly can't recall the number of provinces (76?) yet instead of 76 organizations (ex: Ilocano Assn of wherever), there are at least 2 representative of each province. Why? Because the losers of the election do not seem to accept the loss and instead start their own organization!

Which brings us to the slavery of the mind. Many stories (and jokes) have been made about the so-called Filipino Crab Mentality... Perhaps it was fostered by the hacienderos to keep the estate workers busy fighting amongst themselves and not address their true plight. Just a thought...

To our friend in SC, thanks for the kind words. I mean, really kind. Although I think I'm young at heart, suffice it to say I grew up admiring Muscles, Rocket, Nasty, and the young Jimbo . I spent some of my supposed "adult" years trying to combine the insanity of yuppie career/lifestyle pursuits with more meaningful civic and social causes. Thankfully, I lifestyled out of the y-word and have returned to more basic and life-meaningful values. And, of course, tennis...

You know, speaking of this crab-mentality, I don't think that's unique to cultures that had been under spanish colonization. I work in the Bronx and most of the people I work with are African-American. From most of the conversations I've had with them, they seem to have the same criticism of their own culture, that black people don't look out for one another. With that, it looks like Noelle is on to something with the legacy that is left from slavery, or forms of slavery such as colonization.

I don't think it was actually my idea, this "slave mentality." I think I actually managed to digest some stuff I absorbed via osmosis of my PolSci and History readings plus a smattering of newspaper op-ed articles. But it's as likely a theory as any out there. Sometimes I even find it verified in my own actions.

This one's a bit different from what you guys are talking about...The other day, i was walking around the mall and there was this guy who mentioned something about Filipinos...he said something like Filipinos are made for baby-sitting jobs, cleaning tables, janitorial jobs etc. In other words, he was saying that we, Filipinos, are only made for labour-intensive jobs (im not sure if they're called blue-collared jobs or white-collared jobs). That's actually not true because there are a lot of Filipinos around the world who are very successful in the field they're in. For example, there are Filipinos all over the world who are government, both local and national, officials. There are also successful Filipino doctors, teachers, lawyers etc. around the world.

Some of you might think they are the ones who were born from families who are wealthy, but most of them come from the same situation as all the other Filipinos in the Philippines - living from paycheck to paycheck and making ends meet in order to sustain the bare necesities (sp?) that their families need. Like most of the immigrants from differrent countries, Filipinos do not get all the things they want all in an instant. Instead, we work our butts off in order to get what we want. For example, a lot of people from various places escape poverty by going to other countries that they know nothing of and work hard in order to help their families. I consider them as honourable people.

Going back to Filipinos working abroad without their loved-ones, my uncle works in the middle-east in order support his family. He gets to see his family once every two years because going to the Philippines from the middle-east is expensive.

Unfotunately, a lot of people take things for granted. Im saying all these things as a 15 year old kid who never got everything that i wanted and had to be separated from my mom for quite sometime in order to get to where i am now, in Canada.

jt, Flipinos are good at fighting. I hope you punched the punk in the mouth that made those comments.

My comments come from someone who is about as white as they come but spent some time in Philippines with the military in the 60's. Not nearly the same as living there. I recall the natural beauty of the area when I was there as well as the wonderful people. I was there when Marcos was first elected and I recall it was not a peaceful election. Several polling buildings were burned and blown up, people were killed, some were asasinated. Seems as if he was in power forever, under the guise of being elected. I had hoped the islands would have progressed by now because of the resources of the land and people. I think many people around the world are pulling for you. I am afraid it will be a difficult to seat a government that is "of the people, by the people and for the people". But it always is difficult.

jt, OCWs are a sad but inevitable product of a country which has educated, bilingual, and skilled labor (both white- and blue-collar) but lacks the opportunities wherein those people can be used.

Instead, they have to go abroad. As for those comments, I can tell you from personal experience that quite a few of those so-called low labor jobs are filled by HIGHLY underutilized, HIGHLY educated people who couldn't or can't obtain the necessary certifications or visas to work in their chosen profession. I've known attorneys, physicians, accountants (CPAs), and engineers who were forced to take positions beneath their education such as paralegals/clerks, medical technicians/LPNs, bookkeepers, and construction workers and that's vaguely within their field. I've also known others who were forced to take other jobs such as cab drivers, hotel porters/maids/security guards, waiters/waitresses, and salesclerks.

Be VERY thankful for a conscientious mother who worked hard, sacrificed valuable time, and endured who-knows-what in order to make a better life for you. Some of the 2nd and 3rd generation "Fil-Ams" I've known have taken that for granted and look down on the FOBs; shame on them-- they perpetuate what the Spanish for generations did to Filipinos.

BTW, the OCW experience is not unique to Filipinos; look at the Irish, Italians, and Jews during the 19th and early 20th century. What MAY be unique is that the average OCW does not want to emigrate, but merely attain and maintain a better economic situation for themselves and their families.

Philippines has a good education system. I think the Middle School and High School system in the Philippines is a lot better than the United States.

When I was in the Philippines for a bit. I took 10 classes a day, started from 7:15 AM ended around 5 PM. A lot of people graduate around there are of 16. There just isn't a lot of opportunity in the Philippines. The education is good at that level, but when it comes to colleges. They're really lacking.

I wish it was a bit more modernized like Japan or South Korea. It has the ability, because of the ties with the United States and location of the Philippines. But I don't see that happening any-time soon.

Philippines has a good education system. I think the Middle School and High School system in the Philippines is a lot better than the United States.

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Not true. There's a huge disparity between the public education system and the private education system here in the Philippines. The government just does not budget enough resources to sustain or even improve the public schools, which are overcrowded and the teachers overworked. The private schools, most of them run by religious orders, have all the resources (the best teachers, the best materials), but they're also expensive to get into.

I think I read an article that less than half of the children who start elementary school actually end up completing it and going on to high school. The attrition rate is high because most people simply can't pay for education, and neither does the government.

I should mention that in the Philippines, having only a high school degree guarantees a person ****. Even a McDonalds food server needs to have completed at least two years of college.

The colleges and universities are great--if you can get into them. The privately-run colleges and universities are expensive. The public universities can only accept so many applicants: you've got to pass their entrance exam and have excellent grades in high school. Those who have had better education in the elementary and high school level (usually from private schools) have a better chance at passing the entrance exams and actually being able to pay the tuition. Thus, college attendance is lopsided in favor of the affluent.

Not true. There's a huge disparity between the public education system and the private education system here in the Philippines. The government just does not budget enough resources to sustain or even improve the public schools, which are overcrowded and the teachers overworked. The private schools, most of them run by religious orders, have all the resources (the best teachers, the best materials), but they're also expensive to get into.

I think I read an article that less than half of the children who start elementary school actually end up completing it and going on to high school. The attrition rate is high because most people simply can't pay for education, and neither does the government.

I should mention that in the Philippines, having only a high school degree guarantees a person ****. Even a McDonalds food server needs to have completed at least two years of college.

The colleges and universities are great--if you can get into them. The privately-run colleges and universities are expensive. The public universities can only accept so many applicants: you've got to pass their entrance exam and have excellent grades in high school. Those who have had better education in the elementary and high school level (usually from private schools) have a better chance at passing the entrance exams and actually being able to pay the tuition. Thus, college attendance is lopsided in favor of the affluent.

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Outstanding post. You know your stuff and express yourself very well. I'm always looking for "inside dope" on Asian countries; the type of information not necessarily found in the mainstream media (as my job depends on being up-to-date on Asian countries), and it's always a pleasure to find this level of detail...Never thought I'd find it on the TW Board, though.

BTW, I stole one of your comments from another RP post awhile back-in response to why the country can't seem to turn the corner economically even with new leaders coming in every so often, you said something like, "It's like replacing the driver but never doing anything about the lousy, broke-down engine..." Dropped it in a conversation and got a laugh. Sorry, didn't provide attribution (I STOLE it after all-apologies).

Well, I never thought I'd be drawn into a complex discussion of Philippine economics and politics on a tennis forum as well, but this IS Odds & Ends. Thanks for the compliment, and no worries about the attribution, Phil. I was actually planning to steal "I fart in your general direction"...

You aren't sure? Well, no one considers the Philippines a "pacific islander (sic)" country BECAUSE IT ISN'T! Anyway, Dude, did you actually READ the link page that you posted?

" Inhabitants of (Any of the Sino-Tibetan languages spoken in China; regarded as dialects of a single language (even though they are mutually unintelligible) because they share an ideographic writing system) Chinese, (A native or inhabitant of Japan) Japanese, (Official language of the Philippines; based on Tagalog; draws its lexicon from other Philippine languages) Philippine, and (The dialect of Malay used as the national language of the Republic of Indonesia or of Malaysia) Indonesian islands are not considered Pacific Islanders and are classified as "Asians" on the (Click link for more info and facts about U.S. Census) U.S. Census."

Like I said earlier in this thread, we identify ourselves with the Southeast Asian countries. Here are some of the reasons.

CULTURAL and GENETIC LINK: There was a lot of inter-immigration between the Philippines and other Southeast Asian countries (like Indonesia and Malaysia) before the Spanish conquest. There's even a province here in the Philippines with a language quite similar to Bahasa Malaysia/Indonesia. There are folk dances that are visually the same, but only set to different music (itik-itik is similar to a folk dance performed in Thailand).

It's also worth mentioning that there really are similarities between the Southeast Asians with regard to physical appearance (face and build).

POLITICAL LINK: For example, we have the Sabah land dispute with Malaysia because we claim that Sabah is land loaned to the Malaysians by a local royal family in the southern Philippines (Mindanao).

I don't doubt that there are also relationships between the Philippine culture and the Pacific Polynesian cultures. It's just that we feel there are stronger links with insular and peninsular Southeast Asia.

You aren't sure? Well, no one considers the Philippines a "pacific islander (sic)" country BECAUSE IT ISN'T! Anyway, Dude, did you actually READ the link page that you posted?

" Inhabitants of (Any of the Sino-Tibetan languages spoken in China; regarded as dialects of a single language (even though they are mutually unintelligible) because they share an ideographic writing system) Chinese, (A native or inhabitant of Japan) Japanese, (Official language of the Philippines; based on Tagalog; draws its lexicon from other Philippine languages) Philippine, and (The dialect of Malay used as the national language of the Republic of Indonesia or of Malaysia) Indonesian islands are not considered Pacific Islanders and are classified as "Asians" on the (Click link for more info and facts about U.S. Census) U.S. Census."

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I take the base definition of the word.. Pacific Islander being the islands in the pacific... apparently i'm not alone .. if i was alone they wouldn't have made the clarification in the article.

I take the base definition of the word.. Pacific Islander being the islands in the pacific... apparently i'm not alone .. if i was alone they wouldn't have made the clarification in the article.

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You can take any definition of the word you want; you're still wrong. I don't even know who USES that term anymore, as an official classification. Maybe GILLIGAN'S ISLAND is considereed a "Pacific Island". The Philippines are part of Asia, just as Japan, Taiwan, Hainan and other "Pacific Islands" are part of Asia.

You can take any definition of the word you want; you're still wrong. I don't even know who USES that term anymore, as an official classification. Maybe GILLIGAN'S ISLAND is considereed a "Pacific Island". The Philippines are part of Asia, just as Japan, Taiwan, Hainan and other "Pacific Islands" are part of Asia.

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Lol phil what am I wrong about.. Read my post again.. I said i'm not sure why they call it azn but according to the census it is azn...

So I'm wrong that I'm not sure why? At universities there are lots of Azn & Pacific Islander clubs.. Lots of forms you fill out there arent even Pacific Islander bubble and lots of them do.. I'm sure lots of people dont know the true classification.. but I never made a statement.. moreso I said i didn't know why.. and theres nothing wrong about not knowing why.

Lol phil what am I wrong about.. Read my post again.. I said i'm not sure why they call it azn but according to the census it is azn...

So I'm wrong that I'm not sure why? At universities there are lots of Azn & Pacific Islander clubs.. Lots of forms you fill out there arent even Pacific Islander bubble and lots of them do.. I'm sure lots of people dont know the true classification.. but I never made a statement.. moreso I said i didn't know why.. and theres nothing wrong about not knowing why.

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Dude, that last post of yours is near incomprensible. Are you back on the meth?

Looks like you're bored, just trolling around looking for an argument (e.g. your "Do Europeans Bathe" post), even where one doesn't exist-or where you don't have a clue about what you're talking about. I don't know what they do at lots of universities but whenever I've heard the term, it's referred, specifically, to those islands and countries well south of the Philippines (Micronesia, Polynesia, etc.). I'm not even gonna bother witchyu beyond that, cause you're now, officially, out of your depth...

Um.... Micronesia is primarily EAST and SOUTHEAST of the RP (BTW, Micronesia from end-to-end is nearly the same distance from NYC to LA); Polynesia is also primarily Southeast.

In my experience, "Pacific Islander" has been the "et al" or catchall category for everyone NOT from Asia, the Philippines, or Australasia. Usually it's been applied to people from what is sometimes called Oceania.

As many peoples/dialects as there are in the PI (or RP to be PC), there are also myriads of peoples within the Pacific Islands and you would be naive (as well as insulting them) to think of them as culturally heterogeneous. They may be similar ethnically but they will argue to their last breath as to how different they are culturally. As an example, try telling a Solomon Islander that he is no different than a Chuukese; it'll be a laugh although the SI is more Polynesian.

Dude, that last post of yours is near incomprensible. Are you back on the meth?

Looks like you're bored, just trolling around looking for an argument (e.g. your "Do Europeans Bathe" post), even where one doesn't exist-or where you don't have a clue about what you're talking about. I don't know what they do at lots of universities but whenever I've heard the term, it's referred, specifically, to those islands and countries well south of the Philippines (Micronesia, Polynesia, etc.). I'm not even gonna bother witchyu beyond that, cause you're now, officially, out of your depth...

It's way past your bedtime, little buddy.

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Just woke up right now.. but I think I'll "cut you some slack" at this time.. no need to take over this thread..

Okay, I'll show myself. I was born and raised in Pinas until I was two years of age, when I moved to the States. I'm from Metro Manila and haven't visited home for about six years.

I had a weird experience with a Filipino pro tennis player named Eric Taino once, some may have heard of him, I think he was born in New Jersey. I asked him for a signature and he bluntly told me he was not a tennis player. He may have been in a hurry or something, but that completely rubbed me the wrong way..

Okay, I'll show myself. I was born and raised in Pinas until I was two years of age, when I moved to the States. I'm from Metro Manila and haven't visited home for about six years.

I had a weird experience with a Filipino pro tennis player named Eric Taino once, some may have heard of him, I think he was born in New Jersey. I asked him for a signature and he bluntly told me he was not a tennis player. He may have been in a hurry or something, but that completely rubbed me the wrong way..

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wow! really? in my experience eric taino was very nice along with cecil mamitt. i met them in an exhibition in the city of industry, ca and they were very nice. i met them again last year at the mercedes cup here in l.a.. i was even talking to eric taino before he practiced. he was waiting for safin to finish his session. cecil mamiit still uses "po", i heard him say that alot when he was talking to my dad...lol!

Um.... Micronesia is primarily EAST and SOUTHEAST of the RP (BTW, Micronesia from end-to-end is nearly the same distance from NYC to LA); Polynesia is also primarily Southeast.

In my experience, "Pacific Islander" has been the "et al" or catchall category for everyone NOT from Asia, the Philippines, or Australasia. Usually it's been applied to people from what is sometimes called Oceania.

As many peoples/dialects as there are in the PI (or RP to be PC), there are also myriads of peoples within the Pacific Islands and you would be naive (as well as insulting them) to think of them as culturally heterogeneous. They may be similar ethnically but they will argue to their last breath as to how different they are culturally. As an example, try telling a Solomon Islander that he is no different than a Chuukese; it'll be a laugh although the SI is more Polynesian.

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I was generalizing on the location-they are BOTH SOUTH of the RP...I didn't feel a need to post precise coordinates, Mr. Nitpicker.

I am a filipino too. Not to be mistaken with match point and Matchpoints, sorry guys, but when I registered here it did not reject my registration as the name being taken. It was too late for me when I realized there were aliases very similar to mine.

Anyways, I live in San Diego, CA. I was born in Pampanga (kabalen) but lived in Frisco, Quezon City.

We have very active filipino tennis clubs here in San Diego. I helped start ours which is called Mira Mesa Tennis club. We have about more or less 100 members, we are what they call weekend warriors (plays mostly in the mornings of saturday and sunday).

We have 4 tournaments (1 per season) a year. We have team tennis, singles, doubles and mixed doubles. We also play interclubs with some filipinos in LA and other clubs here in SD. We have members from the very young (8 years old) to the very old (70+). We love playing tennis and we encourage beginners and we conduct tennis clinics. Everyone is welcome to our club, we have some members who are not filipinos.

If you are in San Diego, visit us at the Miramar College it's in the intersection of Black mountain road and Goldcoast in Mira Mesa.

Could you send me an email with some information on the filipinos that play in LA if they have a club or not. Also more information the tournaments in San Diego. I am trying to boost the interest of tennis in the central california area (that is where I am originally from). Thanks.