I'd just like to point out that Adelina could have a perfect performance if she plugged in her 3Lutz-3Loop into her TEB LP. Seeing her land 2 big combos before bombing the rest of the program made me wonder if I should giggle or weep uncontrollably.

yeah, but I guess you have to choose between a lower quality with the B Esp commentators or HD with the spanish lady who loves to listen to herself talking NON STOP ALL THE WAY THROUGH EVERY PROGRAMME.

I have a few questions for the experts here:
- is it even allowed to give GOE +/-0 for a 3-jump-combo when 2 out of those 3 jumps were underrotated? Mao Asada had 3F+2Lo<+2Lo<; nothing fancy like a difficult entry or raised arms, and still a judge gave her GOE +/-0.
- anyone else agree with me that a direct 3Lo+2A sequence like Wagner did should be worth more points than this? I know that the second jump in a sequence is worth less than if done by its own, but she doesn't even do a little tip toe thing to get some speed back between the two, and still the base value of her 3Lo+2A is only 1,78 higher than her 3Lo. That's only 0,35 more than she would get with a much easier 3Lo+2T.

Those were my questions to the technical specialists, now some opinions:
- Asada's first 3A looked way more underrotated to me than the one she did in the short. In the short, she got a <, not here. ?!?
- Sotnikova's 3Lz+3Lo looked 3Lz+3Lo< to me. Had she gotten that <, she'd have finished last. This 3Lz+3Lo reminds me of S/S's 3throw Axel: It almost never really works 100%, and it can destabilize her for the rest of the programme. Miki Ando did beautiful 3Lz+3Lo's for years, and she almost every time got a < on the Lo. I'd drop that 3Lz+3Lo and focus on a clean programme if I was her/her coaches - since she gets an e deduction on her Lz anyway...
- Everytime I watch Wagner's free to Romeo and Juliet, I end up thinking "maybe I'll like it more after having seen it a couple more times". But I'm fairly sure now I just don't like the music arrangement. I know that the skaters want to have original music, so for such a popular theme, that can mean picking pieces that have not been used in the past, but here, I can't help but feel: "they haven't been used for a reason!" It's like "Romeo and Juliet - the worst of": just the gloomy pieces, almost none of the melodic stuff.
Prokofiev's and Nino Rota's R&J are obviously vastly different, but have a look at Susanna Pöikio's R&J and tell me how it compares for you:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V5Fdc0J81gI

You make it seem as if the jumps are everything. Which they aren't. Especially if you think a mere clean jump means 'thumbs up'...
If that were the case, the junior ladies would be scoring something closer to the top three.

But Julia is artistically a lot better than all of those girls (and this program especially is): a Mao with a couple of mistakes is still artistically better than a clean Julia, but not better enough to make up for two BIG mistakes+some UR jumps, in my opinion... Something like 5.8/9 and 5.7 for Julia, 5.6 (if we consider the UR jumps) and 5.9 for Mao; still something around 11.6 vs 11.5. Just my opinion, of course!

Well her short program was amazing. I felt her long was a bit of a mess. I wasn't watching intently, but it seemed to me that she two footed almost every jump. (Apropos of nothing however: The back of her skating dress is to die for!)
I would have put Julia in first. Mao 2nd, Ashley 3d.

Agree, I have always hated the skating theory/unspoken rule whatever it is that results in if a skater falls on a more difficult jump they should place ahead of a skater that maybe does a simpler jump and skates clean.

Agree, I have always hated the skating theory/unspoken rule whatever it is that results in if a skater falls on a more difficult jump they should place ahead of a skater that maybe does a simpler jump and skates clean.

So you're arguing about TES here. The protocols show that Mao is behind Julia by 1.06 points in the TES. It didn't help that Julia's 3Lutz was given edge calls 2 times, including in her biggest combination. Her 3S was also underrotated. Not exactly "clean". I don't think there is any question that Mao's PCS should be higher, so either way, the placement is correct, especially if you take into account the short program scores as well. Even if Julia managed to score 68+ in the SP, the placement still wouldn't have changed.
I understand that the mistake of a fall is more "jarring", but if this can be allowed in men, for them to try countless quads with no success, what's with the double standard in women? Hanyu Yuzuru just beat Patrick Chan in TES after a huge fall on the 4S, PChan comparatively skated "cleanly".

but if this can be allowed in men, for them to try countless quads with no success, what's with the double standard in women? Hanyu Yuzuru just beat Patrick Chan in TES after a huge fall on the 4S, PChan comparatively skated "cleanly".

Once again thanks a million to our resident Rock Star Mao88 for videos - especially for adding Pogoriliaya's FS and the medal ceremony which NBC did not show (except for a brief podium shot)!

Originally Posted by FSGMT

I love Mao, but her program winning the FS segment today is a perfect example of what's wrong in this IJS, Julia landed 7 clean triples, Mao landed only a couple of really clean triples and (even if she's artistically better) she should have been behind and then win overall.
I'm heartbroken for Adelina, though: landing the first clean 3Lz+3Lo in ages and then throwing it all away

^^^
THIS! Whole post. I watched the ladies on NBC. Mao should not have won the FS with such a skate, Julia should have won it with Asada winning overall due to her strong SP. Mao's rep (and competing in Japan) has saved her once again. I'm not feeling this program for her but it's not as bad imo as Wagner's. I was so sad for Adelina! I was thinking she was finally getting it together. Hopefully she'll have 2 strong skates at each of her events next month leading towards Sochi. I want Adelina and Julia on that Russian Olympic team.

Ashley's FS - I'm just not feeling it. At all. I don't 'believe' her as Juliet. I'd say it's even hard to tell she's trying to be Juliet except for that music. I wish so much that she would go back to "Black Swan". That FS was her magnum opus imo. This R&J program just doesn't 'feel' like an Olympic medal winning program. I have a very strong feeling that Julia is going to win the bronze (possibly silver) that Kostner was expected to win and Wagner was expected to challenge for. I still see Yuna and Mao on the Olympic podium. If both hit, everyone else is going to be fighting for that bronze.

Originally Posted by Icey

Oh, no Mao has returned to the choker style dress. Ugly. There seems to be so little connection between the skating of her program(lp) and the music. The music gets lost. Please don't be so loyal to your beloved 3 ax's , Mao

Ashley, 2 ur's and an edge call. She is badly miscast as Juliet. Of course, she doesn't have to skate the character, but when one knows the music, that is the expectation. She best swallow her pride or whatever and call Mills in (assuming he would answer the call).

In an Olympic year , you would think more attention would be given to every detail. Only Julia's team seems to have played it smart with age appropriate and effective music and costuming and well choreographed programs. OT Having 15 year olds skating to Big Spender and the Kiss of Shame or whatever that tango music is looks ridiculous. Little girls dressed up in Mom's clothes and make-up or being advised by the mom's who enter their little girls in those Kiddie beauty contest. UGH. Skating at it's tackiest.

This in a nutshell. Wagner IS miscast as Juliet. This program is just all wrong for her. She does her best with it but it just doesn't seem as natural as her 'Black Swan' persona.

Originally Posted by David21

Sorry but Mao did not land five clean triple. Even if the caller thought those 5 triple jumps were not underrotated enough to get the < call, most of them were certainly ur'ed enough to get a reduction in the GOE but as usual the judges generously didn't care and showered her with sky high PCS on top of that.

I love Mao but ITA with this. Like I said above, rep and competing in Japan saved her. I did however LOVE her SS! Gorgeous! In a league of her own their imo.

Originally Posted by R.D.

Bright side for Wagner: no hip pointer/injury this time!

Better here than in Sochi at least. Don't want to peak too soon, but at least she avoided disaster (i.e. didn't finish last).

I know I'm gonna get it for saying this, but - I think on the world stage, to some degree Wagner still remains the "almost girl".

I like Ashley a lot but I'm going to have to agree with this. Her FS program especially this year is just not medal worthy at the Olympics. If everyone hits Ashley is going to find herself top 5 at best. Jmo.

Originally Posted by boo69

Ashley's PCS is undeserved with all those mistakes.

The same with Asada. Imo her flubbed tripel axels at the start of the program just brought the whole thing down and she never really brought it all back as far as I'm concerned. I hope neither she nor any of the other top 2 (Kim/Kostner) are held up in Sochi should they make similar mistakes there. Love her to bits but this was overscored. She still should have won on the strength of her SP but imo Lipnitskaya should have won the FS.

Originally Posted by sapphiresky

So you're arguing about TES here. The protocols show that Mao is behind Julia by 1.06 points in the TES. It didn't help that Julia's 3Lutz was given edge calls 2 times, including in her biggest combination. Her 3S was also underrotated. Not exactly "clean". I don't think there is any question that Mao's PCS should be higher, so either way, the placement is correct, especially if you take into account the short program scores as well. Even if Julia managed to score 68+ in the SP, the placement still wouldn't have changed.
I understand that the mistake of a fall is more "jarring", but if this can be allowed in men, for them to try countless quads with no success, what's with the double standard in women? Hanyu Yuzuru just beat Patrick Chan in TES after a huge fall on the 4S, PChan comparatively skated "cleanly".

I didn't see anyone here saying that it's okay when it happens on the men's side. I certainly don't think it's okay. Such mistakes are disruptive to a program imo and high PCS scores should not follow.