So typical of those who have less than others to covet what they have, rather than simply to go out and get what they want.

Life is hard. If you work hard, you should reap the benefits. I make well under a hundred thousand a year and I plan on being a millionarie within a
decade. I have not had to "screw" over the public to get where i am. Its called hard work and careful investing and not spending beyond my
means.

But its so much easier for people to whine and complain and point their fingers at those who worked hard to get where they are and demand they
"share".

I make well under a hundred thousand a year and I plan on being a millionarie within a decade. I have not had to "screw" over the public to
get where i am. Its called hard work and careful investing and not spending beyond my means.

Just don't forget - there are NO guarantees - but you'd better get that million. FYI - millionaires are the new middle class, and a million won't
go far at all. Especially when you get sick and your insurance company won't pay up because it's "genetic" or "age-related."

But its so much easier for people to whine and complain and point their fingers at those who worked hard to get where they are and demand they
"share".

QUESTION: Why are you supporting Global Corporate Government? Do you honestly believe they're working in your best interest?

Thats not my point. I do not support the global corporate government. I support self-sufficency. Perhaps that has no place in this discussion, but
i felt obliged to post when many other posters bemoaned that it was impossible for anyone to make anything of themselves in our western society
today.

It is simply untrue. While yes, there is decay and the middle class is dying, it is not dead. A combination of hard work and careful investing as
well as simple fiscal responsibilty is all you need to be what many people would call successful.

I simply wanted to show that not all millionaires are out to screw over Joe Public. Some of us made it here by the sweat of our brow and backbreaking
work. Yes, things could be better and "more fair", but things could be far worse. Thats not to say we should not strive towards improvement, but we
must not lose sight of the reality. If you want somthing in this life, you need to go out and get it yourself. That goes for wealth and success. It
also holds true for politics. Most here lament their lot in life, yet never get off their asses and become politically active. If you feel so
strongly about somthing, join a political organization, a lobby group or volunteer your time to improving you community. Life isnt going to do it for
you.

there was a particular member who had mentioned the first fourth quarter of "11 back in "10 but is now not available. I guess not all leaks are
categorized under the lulz wiki leaks title or anon...lulz...I like trees and detest forests. but i support "PETA" on all fronts....

I do not support the global corporate government. I support self-sufficency. Perhaps that has no place in this discussion, but i felt obliged to post
when many other posters bemoaned that it was impossible for anyone to make anything of themselves in our western society today.

It is simply untrue. While yes, there is decay and the middle class is dying, it is not dead. A combination of hard work and careful investing as well
as simple fiscal responsibilty is all you need to be what many people would call successful.

I do not support the global corporate government. I support self-sufficency. Perhaps that has no place in this discussion, but i felt obliged to post
when many other posters bemoaned that it was impossible for anyone to make anything of themselves in our western society today.

It is simply untrue. While yes, there is decay and the middle class is dying, it is not dead. A combination of hard work and careful investing as well
as simple fiscal responsibilty is all you need to be what many people would call successful.

It is impossible for everyone to be "successful." The system only works if most people are at the bottom of the pyramid, and are NOT
"successful." by any terms.

Our Global Corporate Government counts on people like you buying into the fraud.

How then do you suggest i came from poverty and without any secondary schooling, will very shortly have over 1 million either banked or in assets, all
the while making well under 6 figures a year? Perhaps you think im lieing? Perhaps you think i have made myself successful off the backs of
others?

I understand everything you are saying and agree with 90% of it. Do you think that everyone should be successful in life reguardless of what they put
into it? I would like to suggest that the people who refuse to work (and they are out there), do not deserve to have a million in the bank.

Id like to ask you what you would do to change things if you were ruler of the world? Would you advocate forcibly taking money and wealth from anyone
over a certain tax bracket and distributing it to the poor, Robin Hood style? How would you prevent anyone from increasing their wealth past a
certain point? What do you suggest we do with people who are intelligent and capable of work, yet refuse to because they feel entitled to what other
people have worked hard for?

Not supporting child labor, slavery, brutal warlords, the willingness of some people to dump huge amounts of poisons into our air, land, and water,
not supporting fraud, nor genocide is not coveting what others have.

The crimes against humanity by the super rich are vast and unforgivable. You seem to want to pretend to ignore this reality, why?

So you might be wroth a million, welcome to the upper middle class. You are not rich, and you are certainly not among the global elite, so what are
you posting here about?

You might be surprised to find that a great many people do not want to be rich, or even upper middle class. They want a decent place to live, to work
in a field where they feel that they are doing something positive in this world, and enough free time to raise their children and enjoy life. In my
opinion, those are the people with their act together.

The super greedy super rich destroy everything for everyone with their insatiable need to boost their own egos because deep down inside they are
wretched human beings. No, not all rich people, and you are not rich, are bad people, but at the very top, all indications are that the bad people
completely dominate.

Man I am feeling ya....I can only sense that this is capitalism in its last gasps. Then what?!!! One man gets richer, another gets poorer cause only
so much riches to go around. Take a look at the poor 3rd world countries that are turning around. They will develop there own middle classes. They
will eat better, more meat, more grain, more rice.Can you imagine 300,000,000 more people on this planet in a middle class tax bracket. How ever will
the be able to eat. Unless we here in the US fail and become a poor 3rd world nation eating dirt. See someone has to get poorer for one to get
richer....Have Astroglide,Will travel

Not supporting child labor, slavery, brutal warlords, the willingness of some people to dump huge amounts of poisons into our air, land, and water,
not supporting fraud, nor genocide is not coveting what others have.

The crimes against humanity by the super rich are vast and unforgivable. You seem to want to pretend to ignore this reality, why?

So you might be wroth a million, welcome to the upper middle class. You are not rich, and you are certainly not among the global elite, so what are
you posting here about?

You might be surprised to find that a great many people do not want to be rich, or even upper middle class. They want a decent place to live, to work
in a field where they feel that they are doing something positive in this world, and enough free time to raise their children and enjoy life. In my
opinion, those are the people with their act together.

The super greedy super rich destroy everything for everyone with their insatiable need to boost their own egos because deep down inside they are
wretched human beings. No, not all rich people, and you are not rich, are bad people, but at the very top, all indications are that the bad people
completely dominate.

In 1979, wealth distribution in the U.S. was as evenly spread as it has in our entire history. We had stagflation, but wages were keeping up with
inflation, so it wasn't much of a problem. Then Reagan is elected under the con job of the free market, which people still buy into today, despite
the destruction of our economy under free market economics. I rail against the free market concept on these boards regularly, but so many people fed
up with the system, who realize that they are getting stripped of their wealth and rights, refuse to see that it is free market policies that have
turned over so much power to the wealthy elites.

What the propagandists want to ignore is that the wealth and power of the elites is built on an extremely flimsy system of fractional reserve banking,
and that all that wealth can come crashing down and disappear quicker than anyone can imagine.

If the people get involved in the political process, wake up to what a scam the free market concept is, and started electing true representatives,
individual rights could be quickly restored, and wealth re-redistributed back into the hands of average Americans very quickly.

Two major trends are about to change the whole game.

Technology has brought us to the point where we no longer need large investments of capital for mass production. The biggest battle ground of the
elites is to keep working class people in the U.S. from realizing that they can start small companies and distribute goods and services completely
independent of corporate elites. There is very little need for large corporations anymore. The era that spawned the large corporate powers has
already passed. These large corporate entities, and essentially all large institutions, are dinosaurs trying to cling to power.

The one resource that global elites rely upon the most to maintain their power, oil, is now running out. What was predicted is now becoming a
reality. The sweet light crude has been used up, and it is now like Texas in the 1970ties in Saudi Arabia. Without an easy to obtain, rich source of
energy, the current disposable society is not sustainable.

I don't know how familar you are with my posting here in ATS is, but I have brought this up in many posts.

What the elites, through control of finance and energy, have done, is create a society dependent on consumption, by creating suburban sprawls which
drive up land prices in those concentrated areas, increased use of the automobile, and established a corporate system that keeps people trapped into
dependence on the corporate system. By keeping people trapped into the pursuit of financial obligations, they prevent them from becoming economically
independent. This prevents people from discovering that they can live outside of this system, and live very prosperous lives without the need for
constant consumption. We are quite capable of manufacturing all that we need at the local level, giving people much more control over their lives.

This system depends on the ability of corporations to move manufacturing to areas where people have very little rights, and are forced to work for
very little compensation, creating slave labor production areas. This means concentrating production into areas in one part of the world, and
shipping the goods around the planet to other parts of the world for consumption. Without cheap energy sources, from the large reserves of oil around
the planet, this system is not feasible. It also relies on ever increasing levels of debt, which is just as unsustainable.

Without the planned obsolescence of our disposable economy, our energy needs are greatly reduced. Renewable energy sources such as bio-diesel,
sugarcane ethanol, windmill produced electricity, solar power, and numerous other energy sources will be much more feasibly produced at local levels,
and are all we need, without the planned obsolescence and disposable goods necessary for the existence of giant corporate institutions. A system
where most goods and services are provided and consumed locally would be far more efficient, but that would exclude these giant corporations, and
eliminate the ability of elites to control our society.

What we are witnessing is a last attempt by global elites to try and desperately hold onto power. They will fail at this, because all economic and
social trends, and the advancement of technology, is against them.

What remains is for people to embrace the collapse of the current system, so that a the new, inevitable economic system can emerge, where people are
no longer dependent upon corporate elites.

What the propagandists want to ignore is that the wealth and power of the elites is built on an extremely flimsy system of fractional reserve banking,
and that all that wealth can come crashing down and disappear quicker than anyone can imagine.

That may be true for 99.999% of the population - but I suspect the other .001% are exceptionally well protected.

Two major trends are about to change the whole game.

Technology has brought us to the point where we no longer need large investments of capital for mass production. The biggest battle ground of the
elites is to keep working class people in the U.S. from realizing that they can start small companies and distribute goods and services completely
independent of corporate elites. There is very little need for large corporations anymore. The era that spawned the large corporate powers has already
passed. These large corporate entities, and essentially all large institutions, are dinosaurs trying to cling to power.

I think you may be right - corporations were just a means to the end, that end being the consolidation of wealth and power.

I agree that we can go back to small, local economies - but I'm not sure they will be technological ones, or that we will get "out from under" when we
do.

The one resource that global elites rely upon the most to maintain their power, oil, is now running out.

I don't agree - they used oil to suck everyone into their game - but they're not stupid and I have no doubt they planned for the 'next phase,' in a
way that allows them to retain their power.

Without an easy to obtain, rich source of energy, the current disposable society is not sustainable.

Absolutely true. But "our" society is not "their" society.

What the elites, through control of finance and energy, have done, is create a society dependent on consumption,

Yes - and they redefined people to be "consumers" - not people, or voters or citizens. Just "consumers." And they redefined "society" to be an
"economy" and a "market." ...These definitions are now written into all international trade agreements, and create the framework and terms of our new
Global Corporate Government.

By keeping people trapped into the pursuit of financial obligations, they prevent them from becoming economically independent. This prevents people
from discovering that they can live outside of this system, and live very prosperous lives without the need for constant consumption. We are quite
capable of manufacturing all that we need at the local level, giving people much more control over their lives.

Unfortunately, we, and our descendants are in debt up to our eyeballs. It's called indentured
servitude.

...So we will live without constant consumption, and the fruits of our labors will go towards paying down our debt. The only country that might have
escaped is Iceland.

This system depends on the ability of corporations to move manufacturing to areas where people have very little rights, and are forced to work for
very little compensation, creating slave labor production areas. This means concentrating production into areas in one part of the world, and shipping
the goods around the planet to other parts of the world for consumption. Without cheap energy sources, from the large reserves of oil around the
planet, this system is not feasible.

The next phase is not about constant consumption - most likely it's about buying drugs just to keep working and stay alive. Oh yeah, and food and
water. And bottled oxygen.

It also relies on ever increasing levels of debt, which is just as unsustainable.

No kidding. Except the goal is NOT sustainability, it's just rape.

What we are witnessing is a last attempt by global elites to try and desperately hold onto power. They will fail at this, because all economic and
social trends, and the advancement of technology, is against them.

I sincerely hope you're right.

What remains is for people to embrace the collapse of the current system, so that a the new, inevitable economic system can emerge, where people are
no longer dependent upon corporate elites.

The current system is not collapsing - only our erroneous perception of it is. ...We got sucked in - by stuff and the promise of more
stuff. That's all. ...So the phony 'economy' will collapse, our lives will change but the trade agreements and Global Corporate Government will remain
intact.

After the carrot, the stick. Just read the news. And compare the 1980's to now, just for fun.

It is just a matter of how the events that lead to this unfold.

The elite planned for this 'social devolution' - but the people did not. If we are to avoid the abject misery that defined peasants' lives during
feudal times, we might want to rethink.

Originally posted by wantsome
The should call it trickle up economics. I think we should linch the up 1% and redistribute the wealth. There aint no way they could stop 150 million
of us.

Yep! Best way to combat these things is to kill those with the money! People like you who advocate violence would never share the wealth though.
We would simply have a new elite.

Is this what the OP would advocate as well? It's easy to complain about the system, but not so easy to do somthing about it.

I propose you put forth in point form whAt YOU would do to change the status quo. If it is a good plan that does not require murder, communism,
socialism or a strict, totalitarian government, I would be the first to jump on board.

The illusion is that we need the elites, but the truth is that they need us, average people, and we don't need them. Consistently throughout
history, everytime people wake up to the reality that they don't need the recently risen elites, they have overthrown them, usually violently.

Currently, the power of the elites is the illusion of the fractional reserve banking system, and when that collapses, has it has several times since
the renaissance, it is the wealth of those most wealthy that has disappeared.

The only shelter from an economic collapse is technological capability. Wealth is not gold, or even property, it is the ability to develop and use
technology.

I am consistently amazed by the technological prowess of average people I meet out in smaller towns and cities, who never graduated from college, but
are far more knowledgeable than the institutionally schooled engineers I deal with regularly, who consistently disappoint me with their incompetence.

The other side of the coin is that the wealthy elites have no capability of collecting on any debts supposedly owed. Most of the debt has no
connection to any tangible assets. Mortgage loans are about the only loans tied to real assets, but to seize control of these properties cost
considerable money, and of course don't discount the ability of local communities to levy taxes on vacant properties.

Look at the reality, our current economic system is completely dependent on the easy to get, high quality crude oil that is now running out. These
vast pools of energy are what put the elites into their current position. As that oil runs out, so does the power of the current elites. Without
gasoline, our current transportation systems become unfeasible. The suburban sprawls will no longer be capable of functioning.

Yes, there will be those who suffer, and most of them will be the bureaucrats who have helped the elites carry out their dirty deeds. The cubicle
dwellers who have no skills, except for their ability to play the political system. Of course also the guy up on the hill with his big house and
trophy wife, whose only skill is his ability to con others.

No, the elites are not that smart, otherwise they wouldn't be so obsessed with wealth and power. No, they don't have some long term strategy, have
have mainly gained their wealth by hook and crook. They are spoiled, and so are their children. They know nothing of real work. It is just history
repeating.

Like wealthy elites have ever had a problem murdering innocent people who get in their way.

Why shouldn't criminals be punished for their misdeeds. Why shouldn't those who profited mainly from destroying the lively hoods of others through
sneaky means pay for their crimes?

Babies born without brains in the poisonous manufacturing environments along the TexMex border, that is inhumane.

How do you propose to weed out the ones who deserve to die from those who don't?

Does anyone with a net worth over say, $5,000,000 get a bullet in the head? Or perhaps more acceptable to you would be to execute anyone on a board
for any multinational corporation. How about shareholders? Do they not share the blame? No seriously, i would love to hear more about your
corrupted sense of justice.

Seems to me, awful truths are written here. I'm Canadian, living in Canada where life for most, and I sincerely meen Most (not all), are doing well
for now. As soon as I get into USA news each day I become quite concerned for the well being of both US neighbors and friends.

Messrs US Presidents: Bush1, Clinton, Bush2, Obama. The House, the Senate... what's it all mean when million tons of food are sent to third world
Countries and some Americans don't know if they are eating on any particular Day, as with their Children.

I suppose what I want to express to our American friends during your time of grief and through unemployment and undeserved hardship is, we care. We
feel your strife. Just wish we could do something that would be effective in helping all unfortunate friends, American peoples just wanting the normal
things like food on the table and above a roof over your heads. My Bitching and complaining to end external involvements directly in Countries thus
using/putting those funds into the well-being of less fortunate in your own mighty Country.

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