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[US Foreign Policy] Muddling About

A new thread to discuss what amounts to our supposed policies to foreign nations.

Previously on The Earth:
President Trump tries standup comedy at the UN
UN Ambassador Nikki Haley resigns to spend more time not being in the Trump Administration
SecDef Jim "Mad Dog" Mattis gets new nickname from Trump "Democratic Moderate"

Also: NAFTA part deux! Because getting everything we already had in the TPP, other than expanded trade to the Pacific, is somehow better.

Though it doesn't seem like its really that is "Trump believes us." than he doesn't care because the cost would be that it would financial (no arms deal). WaPo article. Can't kill the goose that lays the golden egg!

The trouble with having an open mind, of course, is that people will insist on coming along and trying to put things in it. ~ Terry Pratchett

Though it doesn't seem like its really that is "Trump believes us." than he doesn't care because the cost would be that it would financial (no arms deal). WaPo article. Can't kill the goose that lays the golden egg!

100% Trump believes them. He's done this same play before. MbS told him personally after all.

You know what I hate the most about Saudi Arabia? Apart from the religious extremism, war in Yemen, oppression of women/ethnic/religious minorities, totalitarian dictatorship(called a monarchy to make it sound better) and all around being stuck in the dark ages?

Its the fact that the country is called Saudi Arabia. Saud is the name of the rulling house, they named the country after themselves. Like its their personal property. Like if Trump changed the name of the USA into United states of Trump or something. I know its petty, but it really pisses me off. Totally grinds my gears and yes that is a family guy reference.

You know what I hate the most about Saudi Arabia? Apart from the religious extremism, war in Yemen, oppression of women/ethnic/religious minorities, totalitarian dictatorship(called a monarchy to make it sound better) and all around being stuck in the dark ages?

Its the fact that the country is called Saudi Arabia. Saud is the name of the rulling house, they named the country after themselves. Like its their personal property. Like if Trump changed the name of the USA into United states of Trump or something. I know its petty, but it really pisses me off. Totally grinds my gears and yes that is a family guy reference.

To be honest, that has been the typical function of monarchy unless otherwise bound by
- A Constitution of some sort
- Enough aristocrats with their own martial power that the monarch must keep them and their interests happy, lest they brook attempts at dethroning.

You know what I hate the most about Saudi Arabia? Apart from the religious extremism, war in Yemen, oppression of women/ethnic/religious minorities, totalitarian dictatorship(called a monarchy to make it sound better) and all around being stuck in the dark ages?

Its the fact that the country is called Saudi Arabia. Saud is the name of the rulling house, they named the country after themselves. Like its their personal property. Like if Trump changed the name of the USA into United states of Trump or something. I know its petty, but it really pisses me off. Totally grinds my gears and yes that is a family guy reference.

Not that odd by any kind of historical standards. Less so in Europe where country names tended to come from place names or tribal names but out of Europe it used to be pretty common. See ottoman empire, china (which is an anachronistic reference to the Qing dynasty that never fell out of fashion in the west), the Selucids, Abbassids, Fatimids, and so on. Even in the west it wouldn’t have been unusual to refer to, say, Bourbon France or Hapsburg Spain.

That saudi arabia still uses the term is more a function of them being one of the last monarchys than any particular egoism.

You know what I hate the most about Saudi Arabia? Apart from the religious extremism, war in Yemen, oppression of women/ethnic/religious minorities, totalitarian dictatorship(called a monarchy to make it sound better) and all around being stuck in the dark ages?

Its the fact that the country is called Saudi Arabia. Saud is the name of the rulling house, they named the country after themselves. Like its their personal property. Like if Trump changed the name of the USA into United states of Trump or something. I know its petty, but it really pisses me off. Totally grinds my gears and yes that is a family guy reference.

America is the feminized name of Amerigo Vespucci because landmasses are ladies. Virginia is named after Elizabeth I, Maryland is Mary's Land. Pennsylvania belonged to William Penn thanks to a royal grant. &c.

You know what I hate the most about Saudi Arabia? Apart from the religious extremism, war in Yemen, oppression of women/ethnic/religious minorities, totalitarian dictatorship(called a monarchy to make it sound better) and all around being stuck in the dark ages?

Its the fact that the country is called Saudi Arabia. Saud is the name of the rulling house, they named the country after themselves. Like its their personal property. Like if Trump changed the name of the USA into United states of Trump or something. I know its petty, but it really pisses me off. Totally grinds my gears and yes that is a family guy reference.

America is the feminized name of Amerigo Vespucci because landmasses are ladies. Virginia is named after Elizabeth I, Maryland is Mary's Land. Pennsylvania belonged to William Penn thanks to a royal grant. &c.

I get that! I can even tell you that Amerigo is a italian form of Emerich(because of a search I did a few weeks ago when I was curious as to the origin of the name and went on a google binge). It should also be noted that Amerigo never decided to name the Americas after himself.

But you have to remember that Saudi Arabia is less then a 100 years old. It was created in the aftermath of the Arab Revolt during WWI and it has long and quite glorious history beforehand. Including being the birthplace of Mohamed and the religion of Islam. What it didn't have was a history of being ruled by the Saudis. Certainly nobody voted for these guys.

And once again people... I KNOW ITS PETTY. I know its a small thing once you compare it to other things. I know there are fucking bigger issues in the world then the name Saudi Arabia, even inside Saudi Arabia, but its my pet peeve okay. Jeez, some people.

I think the message is "There are no consequences for being comically bad at this"

Whether that's true or not...

I think that's a lesson you can take from this whole thing but it is not a message the Saudis are deliberately trying to send.

As long as they have Trump as a bestie, and all that oil money to throw around, they're pretty sure they can get away with this. This is just the start of it- I mean, he was critical of the Prince, and as far as being an American citizen, he was also a man of color and a journalist that insulted one of Trump's bestest best billionaire club friends, so thinking Trump will do anything except let it happen is wishful thinking.

I think the message is "There are no consequences for being comically bad at this"

Whether that's true or not...

I think that's a lesson you can take from this whole thing but it is not a message the Saudis are deliberately trying to send.

As long as they have Trump as a bestie, and all that oil money to throw around, they're pretty sure they can get away with this. This is just the start of it- I mean, he was critical of the Prince, and as far as being an American citizen, he was also a man of color and a journalist that insulted one of Trump's bestest best billionaire club friends, so thinking Trump will do anything except let it happen is wishful thinking.

Resident, not citizen. It was why he entered the consulate in the first place, he needed papers to get married, otherwise he probably would have never have gone there.

You know what I hate the most about Saudi Arabia? Apart from the religious extremism, war in Yemen, oppression of women/ethnic/religious minorities, totalitarian dictatorship(called a monarchy to make it sound better) and all around being stuck in the dark ages?

Its the fact that the country is called Saudi Arabia. Saud is the name of the rulling house, they named the country after themselves. Like its their personal property. Like if Trump changed the name of the USA into United states of Trump or something. I know its petty, but it really pisses me off. Totally grinds my gears and yes that is a family guy reference.

America is the feminized name of Amerigo Vespucci because landmasses are ladies. Virginia is named after Elizabeth I, Maryland is Mary's Land. Pennsylvania belonged to William Penn thanks to a royal grant. &c.

I get that! I can even tell you that Amerigo is a italian form of Emerich(because of a search I did a few weeks ago when I was curious as to the origin of the name and went on a google binge). It should also be noted that Amerigo never decided to name the Americas after himself.

But you have to remember that Saudi Arabia is less then a 100 years old. It was created in the aftermath of the Arab Revolt during WWI and it has long and quite glorious history beforehand. Including being the birthplace of Mohamed and the religion of Islam. What it didn't have was a history of being ruled by the Saudis. Certainly nobody voted for these guys.

And once again people... I KNOW ITS PETTY. I know its a small thing once you compare it to other things. I know there are fucking bigger issues in the world then the name Saudi Arabia, even inside Saudi Arabia, but its my pet peeve okay. Jeez, some people.

You know what I hate the most about Saudi Arabia? Apart from the religious extremism, war in Yemen, oppression of women/ethnic/religious minorities, totalitarian dictatorship(called a monarchy to make it sound better) and all around being stuck in the dark ages?

Its the fact that the country is called Saudi Arabia. Saud is the name of the rulling house, they named the country after themselves. Like its their personal property. Like if Trump changed the name of the USA into United states of Trump or something. I know its petty, but it really pisses me off. Totally grinds my gears and yes that is a family guy reference.

America is the feminized name of Amerigo Vespucci because landmasses are ladies. Virginia is named after Elizabeth I, Maryland is Mary's Land. Pennsylvania belonged to William Penn thanks to a royal grant. &c.

I get that! I can even tell you that Amerigo is a italian form of Emerich(because of a search I did a few weeks ago when I was curious as to the origin of the name and went on a google binge). It should also be noted that Amerigo never decided to name the Americas after himself.

But you have to remember that Saudi Arabia is less then a 100 years old. It was created in the aftermath of the Arab Revolt during WWI and it has long and quite glorious history beforehand. Including being the birthplace of Mohamed and the religion of Islam. What it didn't have was a history of being ruled by the Saudis. Certainly nobody voted for these guys.

And once again people... I KNOW ITS PETTY. I know its a small thing once you compare it to other things. I know there are fucking bigger issues in the world then the name Saudi Arabia, even inside Saudi Arabia, but its my pet peeve okay. Jeez, some people.

That is indeed how Monarchies work.

Battlenet ID: MildC#11186 - If I'm in the game, send me an invite at anytime and I'll play.

Actually most Monarchies used to have an elected component, even the Emperors of Rome where technically voted into office by the senate.

It was usually confined to the biggest warlords with the biggest armies voted on by their followers, but democratically elected kings(for a given value of democratic) was how most monarchies started. Its why the usual heirs during the dark ages where the kings brothers and not his son.

It was only after much consolidation of power that the idea of automatic succession by the eldest son became the standard. Consolidation usually by killing anybody that voted for somebody else.

The history of medieval Germany/Central Europe is pretty much the history of the Hapsburgs trying to make primogeniture a thing.

There was more democracy in the past then Hollywood history gives credit for, believe it or not, America was not the first democracy. Nor its first republic.

Actually most Monarchies used to have an elected component, even the Emperors of Rome where technically voted into office by the senate.

It was usually confined to the biggest warlords with the biggest armies voted on by their followers, but democratically elected kings(for a given value of democratic) was how most monarchies started. Its why the usual heirs during the dark ages where the kings brothers and not his son.

It was only after much consolidation of power that the idea of automatic succession by the eldest son became the standard. Consolidation usually by killing anybody that voted for somebody else.

The history of medieval Germany/Central Europe is pretty much the history of the Hapsburgs trying to make primogeniture a thing.

There was more democracy in the past then Hollywood history gives credit for, believe it or not, America was not the first democracy. Nor its first republic.

Rome had an elected component because it originally was a republic. The emperors came later and the elections were a vestige of the more republican origins. Most historical monarchies had no elections of any sort. It was powerful aristocratic families jockeying for power and once they got it their power was very dictatorial.

But you have to remember that Saudi Arabia is less then a 100 years old. It was created in the aftermath of the Arab Revolt during WWI and it has long and quite glorious history beforehand. Including being the birthplace of Mohamed and the religion of Islam. What it didn't have was a history of being ruled by the Saudis. Certainly nobody voted for these guys.

Only sort of true. The current Saudi state did indeed form in the aftermath of WWI. But this is the third Saudi state, not the first, and the first two didn't call themselves "Saudi Arabia." The first, which took place after dynasty-founder "Ibn Saud" entered into his evil pact with the founder of Wahhabism, existed from 1744 until 1818, and the second from 1824 until 1891. If you read the history of the first Saudi state it will remind you of ISIS. Just going around slaughtering Shia and being fanatical and violent religious authoritarians until the Ottomans/Egyptians put them down.

Yep. Same thing as the Russians. They'll kiss Trump's ass until he's convinced and then hide the fact they did it in plain sight, and use that as a way to silence any other critics who might speak out.

Reminds me of one of Colbert's White House Correspondent's Dinner jokes.

The greatest thing about this man is he's steady. You know where he stands. He believes the same thing Wednesday that he believed on Monday, no matter what happened Tuesday. Events can change; this man's beliefs never will.

Trump of course vacillating between locking his mind onto something and ignoring all other information, and yet juxtaposed against his 'listening to whomever he last spoke to' levels of being easily manipulated, his stances and statements are pure Gaslightonium.

Bonus element, this was the next thing he said;

And as excited as I am to be here with the President, I am appalled to be surrounded by the liberal media that is destroying America, with the exception of FOX News. FOX News gives you both sides of every story: the President's side, and the Vice President's side.

Boy, how times have changed, where now FOX is giving the President his side.