Monks have been fine in pvp since MoP was released. the ONLY reason they're not well represented is not too many people were interested in leveling 1-90. Blizzard is insane for buffing them nonstop. they'll be OP as hell in 5.2 and certainly FotM

This pretty much. Just because they (like most other classes) were overshadowed by the blatant fotm's doesn't mean the class was weak in any way. Now rogues, THEY were actually weak going into mop.

Originally Posted by High Overlord Saurfang

"I am he who watches they. I am the fist of retribution. That which does quell the recalcitrant. Dare you defy the Warchief? Dare you face my merciless judgement?"

@Teriz plz dont use word "stunlock" it doesnt exist anymore, you were stunned for 6 sec max, and btw u're ele shaman as you said, i think u can only kill retry paladin speaking of melee.

@peggleftw Rogue dmg changed about 4% and 1 more ambush (for the more energy), because if dmg on ptr are over the top, well those dmg are over the top on live too, because i dont think 4% more dmg and 1 ambush are doing the difference overall.

Just counter the shadowdance, and after that rogue dmg come from the opener, but u wont see anymore backstab crit all the way your back to death

maybe its because of the gear on the ptr, everyone has malevolent pvp, but their damage on ptr is way higher than it should be. this is from a mistweaver perspective, i wouldnt say MW is Fotm, but it is very good. i havn't really seen too much from ww monks on ptr yet :\ i dont like the spec my self so havn't tried it.
and i dont know so much about the rogue class which isn't helping, but they never gave me this much trouble before.

---------- Post added 2013-01-07 at 12:14 AM ----------

its still early ion the ptr though, maybe will just take a while to get use to the rogue changes :\

---------- Post added 2013-01-07 at 01:44 AM ----------

so i just made a rogue on ptr, never played a rogue at 90 before, and dont know that much about the class, so my gems / talents are probably wrong, but getting 80k ambush and 40-50k backstab crits (crits often) against most players unless they have some sort of defensive buff up. damage does indeed seem very high from playing one, but i die very easy, unless the rogue has a healer sitting behind them, they go down very fast. not sure if its just me been playing them badly but i noticed most the other rogues went down pretty quick when attacked, but i really think the damage needs to be toned down a little bit. not done arena yet, this is just from BGs and im picking people off and dropping them like flies.

Being a monk myself i do agree that monks are quite strong and perhaps op. But there are some factors that may skew peoples opinion of them. They're basicaly a new class in 5.2, previously people didn't even need to learn about monk abilites to just faceroll them and now that they can't do the same exact thing they claim they're op. I also think they are similar to Cata Enh shams in the sense that in duels and 2s they were ridiculous more so duels than 2s. With it being PTR i just don't see how they are going to be tested thoroughly in 3s to the point were we can say with utter confidence that they are op. And im not disagreeing with you, im saying give it time befor making absurd comments like "everyone in high end arena agrees with my opinion".

It is hardly an absurd comment. I follow the top streamers on twitch doing arenas on the ptr and they all agree that monks are op on the ptr. If it goes live like this that is. Looking back at how everyone screamed about warriors for an entire beta and blizzard Still let it go live for a whole season of arena im not that convinced they will take care of monks.

It is hardly an absurd comment. I follow the top streamers on twitch doing arenas on the ptr and they all agree that monks are op on the ptr. If it goes live like this that is. Looking back at how everyone screamed about warriors for an entire beta and blizzard Still let it go live for a whole season of arena im not that convinced they will take care of monks.

I guess time will tell tho...

blizzard do suck at listening to feedback on the PTR, and then acting upon it.

Ragsmuena (Broxigar US - PVP) accepting duel as WW with Twin Glaives to show you that it is not RoP that changed everything.

Yes RoP might be OP at some situation, but all that is needed is peels. People are failing to realise that:
-TeB is the main source of damage increase.
-Paralysis at 20 yards range means setting up combo is easier and Pally can no longer BoF Light's Speed run.
-Chi Wave heals for twice as much no Chi Cost

The only thing that is broken about RoP is that it has no DR and is untrinketable. It is exceptionally strong against caster but as a melee you have no rights to QQ about it because you can still negate most of it's effect. Leap out, Vanish, Counter Disarm, Disengage, Trap, Roll out/Paralysis.

We are stronger now because we have more survivability and our burst is well... more like a burst. If Blizzard wants to nerf, nerf the right thing. Nerf TeB.

The only thing that is broken about RoP is that it has no DR and is untrinketable. It is exceptionally strong against caster but as a melee you have no rights to QQ about it because you can still negate most of it's effect. Leap out, Vanish, Counter Disarm, Disengage, Trap, Roll out/Paralysis.

Wait, what? Leap out/Disengage out from Ring of Peace? You dont have a clue about how RoP works do you?

Wait, what? Leap out/Disengage out from Ring of Peace? You dont have a clue about how RoP works do you?

If you're trying to fight him heads on instead of kiting and depend on peels you sir deserve to lose that fight. And just another pro tip for you, Ring of Peace can be Mass Spell Reflected. During my time as WW Monk in arena high rated, the partner will always peel and I can only depend on my healer to CC him or else we lose the kill. Ring of Peace will make that easier but at the cost of making the kill close to a trinket timer, whereas current state I can pressure for 25 seconds and setup a kill every 45 seconds.

Stop being the person who does nothing but QQ and try to come out with creative ways to overcome things.

The matter of fact is even if RoP was given to Live it will not make Monks OP. It is because of the implementation of all of them which made us OP. To use Chi Wave on CD is not only damage but effective healing of minimum 40k every 15 seconds. A damage buff that got buffed from 20% to potentially 60% which has almost 70% uptime. A range CC which can also act as an interrupt every 15 seconds. Not having to be apprehensive towards Chi pooling for Tiger's Lust and Touch of Karma. Capable of trinket-ing double stun/fears and use it for pursuing.

Cry all you want. But when the real thing happens you'd be more WTF why did the RSK crit for 100k BOk for 70k FoF ticking for 75k with 60k Melee swings than a mere Ring of Peace

Last edited by SnorlaxJeng; 2013-01-07 at 07:08 AM.
Reason: Making people realise that TeB is more OP than RoP at current state.

If you're trying to fight him heads on instead of kiting and depend on peels you sir deserve to lose that fight. And just another pro tip for you, Ring of Peace can be Mass Spell Reflected. During my time as WW Monk in arena high rated, the partner will always peel and I can only depend on my healer to CC him or else we lose the kill. Ring of Peace will make that easier but at the cost of making the kill close to a trinket timer, whereas current state I can pressure for 25 seconds and setup a kill every 45 seconds.

Stop being the person who does nothing but QQ and try to come out with creative ways to overcome things.

The matter of fact is even if RoP was given to Live it will not make Monks OP. It is because of the implementation of all of them which made us OP. To use Chi Wave on CD is not only damage but effective healing of minimum 40k every 15 seconds. A damage buff that got buffed from 20% to potentially 60% which has almost 70% uptime. A range CC which can also act as an interrupt every 15 seconds. Not having to be apprehensive towards Chi pooling for Tiger's Lust and Touch of Karma. Capable of trinket-ing double stun/fears and use it for pursuing.

Cry all you want. But when the real thing happens you'd be more WTF why did the RSK crit for 100k BOk for 70k FoF ticking for 75k with 60k Melee swings than a mere Ring of Peace

Aggre with you, the only thing i would suggest to make things fair would be add RoP to other likewise spells diminishing returns. Also in random bg's it's quite common for me on live to see 100k crits with RSK to be honest.

On ptr right now im beating classes i would never beat on live. Noticeing people are calling monks op as well. Just wanted to hear some non monk thoughts on this and other monks opinions wouldn't hurt as well.

Which is great for me, cause the only class I can't beat is a warrior who can melt me in 1 sec.

But now hopefully the buffs will now give the "elitists" the wool they needed to start putting monks in their groups so I can get my rating above 1800.

Currently on live, Monks are somewhere in the gutter, because we bring nothing to the table that another melee can't bring and arguably do better.
Rogues have smoke bomb. (It's a whole different debate on they need buffs or not, I agree with some of the buffs)
DK's have better sustained DMG but slightly worse survivability.
Warriors creams us all.
Ferals (surprised no one mentioned them yet, getting nerfed tho).
Enh Shaman (needs love).

Besides our Touch of Karma, if you tunnel a monk when it's over = GG.

All the buffs Monks recieved are something that should've been baseline from the start, but I can imagine how RoP will be slightly OP, but it will still seperate the good from the bads.

Discussing imbalance with the class in question is dead from the get go. I never learn. Ill unsubscribe to this thread now because its
just frustrating to see arguments from people who actually know stuff about this game just bounce of the wall that is the users in this thread.

Which is great for me, cause the only class I can't beat is a warrior who can melt me in 1 sec.

But now hopefully the buffs will now give the "elitists" the wool they needed to start putting monks in their groups so I can get my rating above 1800.

You'll be happy to know that Monks can stand toe to toe with warriors and other melee in PTR and do quite well. In fact, on the official forums, Rogues are calling for Monk nerfs because Monks the only class that can give them a challenge.

Discussing imbalance with the class in question is dead from the get go. I never learn. Ill unsubscribe to this thread now because its
just frustrating to see arguments from people who actually know stuff about this game just bounce of the wall that is the users in this thread.

Good luck and have fun being op for the next season i guess.

You're a fool for thinking that in any way I said monk isn't OP. I reiterate myself, monk is OP on PTR because of the collective buffs, not because of a mere Ring of Peace. And as I've repeatedly stated myself, the real devil in the making is disguised under our new Mastery which is scaling out of hand. You're the wall that constructive people who actually TEST the PTR and know what is OP and what is not aren't getting into. Don't get 2nd hand info, play the class be on the providing and receiving end then you will see things in clearer light.

Merely crying for Ring of Peace being nerfed doesn't solve the OP problem, cause people will just substitute it with Leg Sweep and pressure people more with the insane Tigereye Brew damage increase.

Also @ Teriz
Rogues ST is OP not really because of the auto attack, yeah maybe it needs alittle damage tweak reduction as far as my observation, it should not benefit from extra Combo point generation and application of poison. Mainly the poison application is the culprit in why it is OP.

You'll be happy to know that Monks can stand toe to toe with warriors and other melee in PTR and do quite well. In fact, on the official forums, Rogues are calling for Monk nerfs because Monks the only class that can give them a challenge.

I should have worded my post better. I can already beat any class except warriors who can destroy me in 1 sec. Which isn't all warriors. So with the new stuff I'll be unstoppable. lol

I should have worded my post better. I can already beat any class except warriors who can destroy me in 1 sec. Which isn't all warriors. So with the new stuff I'll be unstoppable. lol

:X I was already destroying warriors. It's all in timing.

---------- Post added 2013-01-07 at 01:52 PM ----------

Originally Posted by SnorlaxJeng

You're a fool for thinking that in any way I said monk isn't OP. I reiterate myself, monk is OP on PTR because of the collective buffs, not because of a mere Ring of Peace. And as I've repeatedly stated myself, the real devil in the making is disguised under our new Mastery which is scaling out of hand. You're the wall that constructive people who actually TEST the PTR and know what is OP and what is not aren't getting into. Don't get 2nd hand info, play the class be on the providing and receiving end then you will see things in clearer light.

Merely crying for Ring of Peace being nerfed doesn't solve the OP problem, cause people will just substitute it with Leg Sweep and pressure people more with the insane Tigereye Brew damage increase.

Also @ Teriz
Rogues ST is OP not really because of the auto attack, yeah maybe it needs alittle damage tweak reduction as far as my observation, it should not benefit from extra Combo point generation and application of poison. Mainly the poison application is the culprit in why it is OP.

This is pretty much all justice.
I'm using Leg Sweep on ptr for my second WW spec, in most cases, it's all you really need, if the condition warrants it, you pop the cap open on Tigereye Brew and send the message home to your opponent. Solid post SnorlaxJeng.

Judge a man not by the gleam of his sword, but by the dents in his shield.