The American public may have a short attention span about certain stories in the news – tending to go for the more sensational over the intricate detail sorts. But they understand one thing very clearly: liars and hypocrites make for a good storyline. Especially when the liar or hypocrite has previously wagged his finger at them on television and proclaimed that he deplores that thing which, ultimately, we find out he has in truth done.

…unless, of course, my political self is roasting on a public perception spit, in which case I will selectively release only that previously classified information that makes me look good — while I keep all information which calls my judgment into question conveniently classified. (It’s good to be the King, isn’t it George — until you get caught, that is.)

Dear George, it’s called not telling the whole truth, covering your ass, manipulating and, yep, lying. If you tell only a partial story, if you try to shade the whole of the picture, you aren’t telling the whole truth. What you did was attempt to manipulate the public and save your ass at the same time by only talking about the things that propped your false stories up — never mind that it had been discredited by numerous intelligence agencies at that point — including the CIA, the State Department’s intel arm, and the Air Force intel unit. You put a lot of misplaced faith in the DIA’s Chalabi intel unit (and Doug Feith), didn’t you, George? Was it because they told you what you wanted to hear?

For instance, on July 11, seven days before key portions of the NIE were released, reporters badgered the then national-security adviser Condoleezza Rice to allow them to see some of the NIE, which had been used by the administration to make the case for war with Congress. "We don’t want to try to get into kind of selective declassification," said Rice, though she added, "We’re looking at what can be made available." (emphasis mine)

You lied to the press. You lied to the American public. You lied to Congress. And worst of all, you lied to our men and women in uniform who are now in harm’s way in Iraq in a war that you drummed up based on false public statements about the imminent threat of mushroom clouds and al qaeda connections and WMDs. All based on tenuous intelligence at best that you hyped to an already fearful public, reeling from the devastation after 9/11.

The dissenting opinions in this portion of the NIE were not released to the public until July 18, 2003, a full week after Condi’s performance and a full 10 days after Scooter’s meeting with Judy Miller at the St. Regis, after the mushroom cloud spectre had already solidified in the public’s mindset. You weren’t interested in selective declassification? Then why not allow Condi (and Scooter) to discuss the whole of the NIE — since you’d theoretically already declassified parts of it for Scooter’s secret meeting with Judy Miller on July 8th — hadn’t you? Why all the hiding of the contradictory bits if you weren’t interested in being selective? Ah, but you were, weren’t you, George. In order to get your war, you had to cheat.

And now the excuse is "If the President declassifies the information, then it’s not an illegal leak of formerly classified information?" Well, that’s not the point is it? The point is that you were too craven and that your position was too weak for you to tell the whole truth — to debate the real facts with the American public in order to gain support for your war with Saddam on the true merits.

Here’s a little secret: the American public is on to your sneaky, manipulative ways. And a majority of the public wouldn’t believe a thing you said now without hard proof from some other source. The bulk of Americans are catching up to where most world leaders have been through most of your Presidency. We have become a nation led by a man that most people find to be not so credible. How does that make you feel, George? To know that most people assume automatically that if you are saying something, that means you are hiding something else or crossing your fingers behind your back?

The leak case has the potential to create deep wounds because history shows that once the public loses faith in a president’s personal qualities, that trust is hard to win back. Once he is seen as a leaker and a hypocrite, he no longer seems presidential, and once the aura fades, Rasmussen said, it’s hard to get back.

"Gerald Ford became known as a bumbler," he recalled, "and every time he hit his head on a door it became news."

Bush’s leak could have the same effect, Lesperance said – it is fresh evidence that Bush is not the forthright president he had once seemed.

So although the public may not understand all the legal maneuvering, they increasingly think "that whatever happened in the Plame case probably started with Bush," Lesperance said. "This is going to reverberate."

In politics, perception is everything. Straight talking cowboy? Try all hat, no cattle, George. No one likes a liar and a cheat, and you’ve just been exposed as just that sort of fraud.

Administration critics arguing that war hinged only on the now debunked nuclear threat through Niger are engaging in political demagoguery. There were other valid reasons, including the Iraqi dictator’s repeated refusal to comply with UN resolutions in a post 9/11 context, but the Democrats have ammunition now, provided them by the Bush-Cheney appetite for revenge.

So the hands of the Bush White House are covered with tar. It was sticky enough just listening to Bush spokesman Scott McClellan try to spin out of it, attempting to distinguish between the president’s opposition to leaks, and, well, other leaks.

"There is a difference between providing declassified information to the public when it’s in the public’s interest and leaking classified information involved in sensitive national intelligence regarding our security," McClellan said.

I don’t have to remind anyone that if Bill Clinton had leaked classified information to debunk Republican critics, we’d all be deaf from angry Republican shrieking. President Bush better start talking straight and loud and clear on this, and soon.

But the Texas Republican might be taking a page from that wily Arkansas hairsplitter. I can almost hear Bush say: "I guess it depends on what the definition of `leak’ is."

That’s from the Chicago Tribune. Not exactly a bastion of liberal media. When you’ve lost your conservative media buddies, you know your behavior has crossed the line and then some.

The dissenting opinions were included in the declassified NIE released to the press on July 18, 2003. But Libby said nothing about them to Miller when he was leaking to her on July 8. Cheney’s role in this operation remains murky, as does the precise role played by Bush (both men were questioned by the prosecutor, Patrick Fitzgerald—Bush at the White House, Cheney at an unknown location—but not under oath). The filing by Fitzgerald ties Cheney more directly to Libby’s leak than any evidence so far. It says Libby testified that after Wilson’s op-ed appeared on July 6, Cheney questioned whether Wilson’s trip to Africa was legitimate, or "whether it was a junket set up by Mr. Wilson’s wife," Valerie Plame, a CIA operative then working in the agency’s counterproliferation division of the directorate of operations.

Libby has been charged with lying to a grand jury and to the Feds about when and from whom he learned Plame’s identity. The theory was that Libby was trying to intimidate or get back at Wilson by exposing his wife’s undercover role. Libby has argued all along that he was so preoccupied with important national-security matters, he barely noticed that Wilson’s wife was involved, and later forgot that he had mentioned anything about her to reporters when he was questioned by investigators in the leak probe. To defend himself, Libby may now want to call both Cheney and Bush as witnesses at his trial. That is not likely to endear him to the president—the one man who has the power not only to declassify secrets but also to pardon convicted felons.

Abusing your position of power is wrong. Flat out wrong. Classified information is not some pawn to be wielded as an ass-covering maneuver – and going to war on half-truths is not what any of us expect, especially considering the consequences for the thousands of soldiers who have been killed and maimed in Iraq since your war began.

I almost EPU’d this. Caught it just in time. (Haven’t even read the post yet. Is that a penalty?):

Well, I managed to catch Kerry on MTP. First off, Russert covered all the subjects, but very briefly. Let Kerry ramble a little on each, but no follow-ups that were worth much.

If you had read Kerry’s speech in the Senate the other day, then you got the same message. (I just hate how scripted everything is, but I guess that’s just how it’s done.) He was quick to say that he was wrong on many of his previous positions including his vote on the war. Still nothing really new to those that pay attention.

He did say that he would be making his decision about running for 08′ at the end of this year. Or at least, that would be the best announcement time.

Sorry Kerry, I want Al Gore to run, and I want every Democrat out there to pull out of the race as soon as he announces. Show 100% support across the board and hit the Republicans like a tidal wave. (I also want little green women to drop in on some Christian acquaintances of mine. Dunt meen it gonna happin’ tho.)

Everyone knows politicians lie. It IS the definition of a politician. Of course this bunch claims to be holier than thou when in fact they are bottom feeders with the best of them.

The little guys are disgusted and tune out of politics because they don’t get to vote for anyone who represents their issues… and everyone knows politicians are rich and privileged… the real people are struggling to make ends meet.

They care about pocket book issues but are swayed by MSM rubbish because pocket book stuff is too complicated for them to understand. They want cheap stuff, gas, sports, Britney…Jen, Brad, Joli, CruzDude, Steriods…

While everyone is bored, distracted, numbed, depressed, the rich are laughing all the way to the bank… and the pundit bubbleheads chatter and pretend there is some sort of “level playing field” where the best ideas always rise to the top.

I am firmly convinced that the only motivator for the people is real pain… and not until everyone is screaming in pain will something actually change. This administration has racked up the most amazing record of misdeeds, lies, blunders, and crimes and what has happened? 2400 Americans gave their lives, 10 of thousands of Iraqis… and a few soldiers sent to jail for “inappropriate” treatment of prisoners. WE CONDONE TORTURE for chrissake!

A little lesson from the Hispanic immigrants… came out into the streets and woke up America a bit… what’s with the rest of America?

Redd,
Lovely post. One nit to pick. Let’s not accept as true that Bush can declassify at whim w/o going through any process. That is not settled law, and how that comes out can have a big differnce going forward.

I’m not saying he can’t declassify instantly in an emergency and start a backtrack declassification process. Or have a slip in public, like Lyndon Johnson that is de facto declassification.

I will admit, I have not done exhastive research on this, but I have some tiny working familiarity with this area and I am unaware of any grant of authority to do what Libby says Bush did with the NIE.

If respected blogs like this one swallow the Bush can declassify anything at any time for any reason or no reason meme, I don’t think anyone who disagrees with that will believe they have enough popular support to engage in pushback. Or honest people who don’t need popular support to stand up for what they believe is right, but who are not entirley sure that they are right will be hesitant if the folks who are usually on the same page with them don’t see this question the same way they do.

God knows, you put WAY more time into this than I do. Has your research turned up something that convinces you that the conduct Libby described is legal? If not, let’s not slip into the trap of accepting what the spin doctors are putting out.

I wish I had the time this week to dive into the research on this, but I am jammed (I really shouldn’t be here now, I should be digging my way out from under the mountain of stuff that needs to get done this week).

I would just be VERY cautious about accepting as true, w/o personally verifiying it, when it comes to ANYTHING these mutts try to tell us about the legalities invovled.

They have been lying through their teeth about the provisons of FISA and the Patriot Act for months/years, why would they tell the truth in this instance?

The affair concerns, once again, former ambassador Joseph C. Wilson IV and his absurdly over-examined visit to the African country of Niger in 2002. Each time the case surfaces, opponents of the war in Iraq use it to raise a different set of charges, so it’s worth recalling the previous iterations. Mr. Wilson originally claimed in a 2003 New York Times op-ed and in conversations with numerous reporters that he had debunked a report that Iraq was seeking to purchase uranium from Niger and that Mr. Bush’s subsequent inclusion of that allegation in his State of the Union address showed that he had deliberately “twisted” intelligence “to exaggerate the Iraq threat.” The material that Mr. Bush ordered declassified established, as have several subsequent investigations, that Mr. Wilson was the one guilty of twisting the truth. In fact, his report supported the conclusion that Iraq had sought uranium.

Mr. Wilson subsequently claimed that the White House set out to punish him for his supposed whistle-blowing by deliberately blowing the cover of his wife, Valerie Plame, who he said was an undercover CIA operative. This prompted the investigation by Special Counsel Patrick J. Fitzgerald. After more than 2 1/2 years of investigation, Mr. Fitzgerald has reported no evidence to support Mr. Wilson’s charge. In last week’s court filings, he stated that Mr. Bush did not authorize the leak of Ms. Plame’s identity. Mr. Libby’s motive in allegedly disclosing her name to reporters, Mr. Fitzgerald said, was to disprove yet another false assertion, that Mr. Wilson had been dispatched to Niger by Mr. Cheney. In fact Mr. Wilson was recommended for the trip by his wife. Mr. Libby is charged with perjury, for having lied about his discussions with two reporters. Yet neither the columnist who published Ms. Plame’s name, Robert D. Novak, nor Mr. Novak’s two sources have been charged with any wrongdoing.

As Mr. Fitzgerald pointed out at the time of Mr. Libby’s indictment last fall, none of this is particularly relevant to the question of whether the grounds for war in Iraq were sound or bogus.
It’s unfortunate that those who seek to prove the latter would now claim that Mr. Bush did something wrong by releasing for public review some of the intelligence he used in making his most momentous decision.

looseheadprop — I didn’t even get into the whole issue of viability of the declassification issue. It’s why I tried to use quotes or qualifiers with it. There’s a whole argument going on at the moment on that (which I’m honestly not even remotely qualified to join — I’m still trying to get myself up to speed fully on classification and declassification issues because it IS so complex). I think Arianna was correct in mocking the wave of the Presidential wand system of declassification — there needs to be a paper trail, and the subsequent request for official declassification of the information points to that need for it to be officially done. They have a LOT of explaining to do on that point.

Bush will not be able to recover the public’s trust. His credibility is gone–finally.

Perhaps there’s too much tinfoil in my wardrobe when I wonder whether it matters in the long run; that an administration that treats its own people as a banana republic to be spun, regards the most sacred institutions of government as obstacle and irritant, replaces politics with policy and believes that winning is everything hasn’t already put the fix in long ago.

My question is this — as Libby was supposedly leaking to Miller about the NIE, to discredit what Wilson said in the NYT, Fleisher was telling reporters that the yellowcake evidence wasn’t very strong and shouldn’t have been included in the SOTU anyway. So the story so far doesn’t make sense — Libby “leaking” information which the White House was repudiating.
I think it is much more likely that Libby was actually leaking the “boondogle set up by his wife” story, to try to discredit Wilson himself — that’s the typical pattern of the Bush White House.

How bout the Mathews pimping of Bush and Cheney and sliming of Kerry and Edwards with a “recent survey”? Edwards most feminine, Kerry negative, Bush optimistic, Cheney very smart. Need to find that survey Mathews pimped. Obviously a right wing hack survey. Shameless media whores. Seems like thay all had a meeting, cuz all the shows were strong on hackery. Since when has immigration become our biggest issue? We’ve had the same immigration challenges since 2000. Its the old repeat the line til it becomes the truth. They wish it was the biggest issue and they are trying like hell to make it so. Disgusting Media Whores.

WaPo apparently trying to keep Clusterfuck from a total nosedive- but he IS in a total nosedive- and one fuckin WaPo editorial isn’t gonna do a damned thing to stop it.

The best and brightest would better serve the needs of the nation if they figured out a way for us to SURVIVE three years of a presidency where the president has NO credibility- cause THAT’S the problem…dual resignation is the best solution- failing that- we need a dem congress for the last two years. This is bullshit.

From previous thread: Correct me if I’m wrong, but I think Bush and Cheney were only together for their testimony to the 9/11 commission. I believe their Fitz. testimony was separately (I have trouble spelling that word; not sure why).

I believe they were interviewed separately. Prosecutors don’t interview witnesses in the same room at the same time — too much of a possibility for coordinating stories. You want separate statements, not one intertwined interview. I’m fairly certain they were each interviewed separately — Bush in the Oval Office, as I recall, and Cheney at the VP’s residence. But I’d have to check back through my notes to be absolutely positive on that.

Neo-Con Prick Extraordinaire–Bill “The Shill” Kristol has taken the new marching orders from Field Marshall Rove to attack Pat Fitzgerald as an “out of control” partisan.

The depths to which these moral cowards and war-mongers will plunge no one knows.

A more pathetic closet-warrior there has never been..so bravely dispatching young Americans to “capture and kill” terrorists.

So Kristol, now that the crown jewel of your foreign policy of world hegemony has collapsed in smoldering pile of race and ethnic war-fare and in American ridicule and shame and disgrace..Now the only thing you can do is to attack another innocent bystander doing his job in an ethical manner.

Timmeh (in another “gotcha”) said that Klein has a story out that says when the Abu Ghraib photos were released, Kerry, instead of addressing it right away, held a focus group. In the Klein version, the focus group convinced Kerry it was not politically safe to make an issue out of Abu Ghraib so Kerry shied away from the subject during the campaign.

Kerry’s response:

There was no focus group.
He did talk about it during the campaign – in fact, he called for Rumsfeld’s resignation.

Christy, I have a tough one for you. That is, it’s more inuition and experience than hard facts.

Do you get any feel for the pace that Fitz is on now? Are we looking at years for the investigations to conclude, or do you get the sense that various phases are wrapping up which will generate indictments in the near future. I mean, there could be a million things, but do you have any sense for it? We all think more indictments are right around the corner, but otherwise…I guess I don’t know the progression of events well enough, so everything is really foggy right now. What could be next? Or is that just wildly random guessing?

To continue my snotty little comment from the last thread about the winger group filing a complaint with “federal prosecuters” on Rep. Alan B. Mollohan of West Virginia, sr. dem on the House Ethics committee to try to force him to resign…

If that’s all it takes, I’m thinking, and we’ve got all these brilliant people on FDL and DK and other folks that do cutting-edge research and *understand the law*, well gosh, we could file a blizzard of complaints on these Congressional scumbag Republicans, right?… Am I missing something here?

Back around Nov, when Bush was on the ‘war-trail’ trying to get his numbers back above 40, an article interviewing a variety of pollsters included:
“He has to defend the war. It IS his presidency.”
and…
“Trust and credibility are like virginity. Once you lose it, there’s no going back.”
(At least one of those was a GOP pollster.)

Happy Trials, George!

(PS — Iran’s a nice place to visit, but you wouldn’t want to bomb there.)

marksb — I’m told that Mollohan made the money selling a piece of land/house he bought when he first got elected to Congress. Considering how real estate values have skyrocketed in the DC area — and how everyone seems to be selling now before the housing bubble bursts — this shouldn’t be a huge surprise that he made some money. There may be more to it than that, but the conservative group that fronted the information has been involved in a number of other smarmy news plants in the past. (Think Comstock’s work with Burton kind of smarmy.) I’m waiting to see what, if anything, really gets turned up by a legitimate source.

Something occurred to me last night. Woke me up before dawn. There was that Associated Press (I think?) piece yesterday that Bush said that he didn’t get into the specifics of the relase of the NIE, but merely told Cheney to “get it out”; well, I think giving that story may constitute a waiver of Executive Privilege on the issue of what he told Cheney on the magical instant declassification of the NIE.

Last year I had a case in which executive priviledge, legistalive priviledge and deliberative priviledge were issues in the case. Did a ton of research on the topic and blasted my clients with memos telling them not to say anything at all on topics where the decision on whether or not to assert the priviledge had yet been determined.

(BTW, if you ever want to feel really unpopular, try telling a bunch of politicains that they cannot bloviate, press conference or constituent smooze on a topic where they happen to be in the right. Drives em nuts!)

The thing is, you can’t selectively waive on a given topic. Once you open the door and say something material, you’ve waived.

Not only that, if you waive for one purpose the waiver is good for all purposes, you can’t put the genie back in the bottle. Which is why in the case I had, before we waived ANY priviledge, the client government wanted to do an elaborate review to see if the law of unintended consequences would bite them once they waived on a given topic.

Of course materiality is decided (usually be an “in camera” review by the court of the entire record for which priviledge is asserted)by someone who isn’t me and I don’t have enough info to even hazard a guess about whether this statement is sufficiently material to trigger waiver, but one lives in hope.

I certainly sense an arguement to be made leading to such a judicial review.

I watched the riveting Hersh interview you have been posting about. Absolutely chilling! Not only does he describe the preznit as Messianic but he pointed out European leaders “do not know what Bush is thinking”. He is not communicating. Scary, scary stuff. I have no doubt it is all true, including talk of a nuclear option and the fact the U. S. military has infiltrated Iran.

I know that this has been mentioned here already, but everyone must read Seymour Hersh’s article, ” Next Stop, Iran?,” at http://www.newyorker.com/.

Do you trust Bush to make the right decisions regarding Iran? …I didn’t think so. This is unbelievably worrisome particularly at a point in time when Congress thinks it is an inappropriate, radical step to censure a president who has admitted to breaking the law. We are so fucked!

What can we do to make sure that we don’t wake up some day (tomorrow?) and find out that Bush has nuked Iran?

I saw a similar story on the front page of the NYT this a.m. about the winger group filing a complaint with â€œfederal prosecutersâ€ on Rep. Alan B. Mollohan of West Virginia. I am really past the point of tolerance with the corporate media. What’s the point of publishing this story? The idea that only this particular Dem, and not just about every other of the 500-plus members of this Congress and Senate is guilty of fattening up on earmarks, is absurd. Ignoring that context, as the story does, leaves only the conclusion that the editors of the LAT and NYT are either purposely trying to divert outrage over Abramoff and Delay onto Dems too, or they are being played for that effect. Either way, it is to weep – the NYT and LAT, i.e. the best of the corporate media, are this bad.

Great post Redd. I share your hope, but not your expectation, that this will “stick.” Watergate “stuck” only after the media picked up the story and reported facts. Much of the media now is still reporting Republican spin and trying to rationalize illegal executive actions. I see this “sticking” only if the Dems start harping on it endlesslyl — and I don’t mean Chas (WIMP) Schumer sniffling to the NYT about “we need to know when Bush feels it’s appropriate to unilaterally declassify..” (quote not exact, but context is). We need to have Dems SCREAMING for impeachment (at least of Cheney) NOW. If we don’t get that soon, this story will not “stick.” Just my opinion.

EPU’d below – quoted some passages from Risen’s book about the loss of CIA intelligence assets in Iran in 2004.

I may do more on this later, but I think I’m with lhp on the declassification. I do think Bush has the power to declassify (although even with the power, abuse of power still sets a limit on the exercise of that power, e.g., going on CNN and giving out nuclear security codes)

Also, the power has additional boundaries set forth by the requirements of the Exec Order or related regs. Those boundaries could, in an emergency exercise of necessary and proper powers, be overriden IMO, but there is no such exigent showing.

Additionally, and for me my initial response, is that there is no objective indicia that what he did can be termed a “declassification” bc, by definition, what is declassified becomes unclassified (it’s in the Order and common parlance). At what point did the information receive “unclassified” treatment? July 18. What objective indicia exists that the info became unclassified before that point? A secret meeting to give small portions to one person, who may very likely have been TOLD it WAS classified info (wouldn’t that be interesting to find out?) – how does that equate with making the information unclassified? Generally available to the public? No. Generally available for even Cabinent members to speak about and discuss? No. Notification to appropriate offices to reclassify? No. Written paper trail and/or noation on document? No. Generally available to media on non-discriminatory basis? No. The biggie, imo, is that in America, unclassified info is freely and openly available for public discussion and debate. Did that happen when Bush privately tells Cheney who privately tells Libby to privately tell a reporter cherry picks?

Nah.

**Frolic and detour – how is it that Libby says just he and the VP and the President knew (which also seems to clearly indicate the info was not unclassified) and yet, also that he spoke to Addington? So was it so “unclassified” that he couldn’t even mention it to Addington? Or is he more scared Addington and what he might do if Libby drags A into this mess that Libby is more comfortable dragging Cheney and Bush in than Addington? Or just compulsive fibbing? **

IMO, a “creative” use of the Espionage Act to address the leak of a CIA agent’s status might not have been the only reason rumors were out and about that the Prosecutor was showing an interest in that Act.

Siun and Ceci — I too watched the Hersh interview and it is really scary, scary stuff. People still act as if BushCo. is going to play by the law — and it just ain’t so. Unimaginable changes are certain to become a part of our lives.

It reminds me the worse day in Iraq. The worse day that every single Iraqi live.
In the beginning, there were some people who love Us Army and believed that they came to help us but now and after three years passed. No body reach this point and didn’t lose someone from his family and some people he love.

Something that was said on the Kos thread re the WaPo editorial made go back and re-read the original Wilson op-ed.

The WH and their apologists claim Iraq was TRYING to buy uranium from Niger. Is that different from the fact that there was NO SALE of uranium from Niger to Iraq? We know the bill of sale was a forgery. Where is the proof that Iraq ATTEMPTED to buy yellowcake from Niger?

I am pretty sure Lina is right. Immediatly after pushing “submit” on my EPU’d comment on the previous thread, I second guessed myself on that statement.
I think I know the source of my confusion. Wasn’t there originally some question about whether Bush was going to submitt to FBI interrogation (Pre-Fitz appointmnet)? And then they offered to do it Bush and Cheny together but only for 1/2 hour cause they were too important and too busy to be interviewed at length by some prol FBI agent,or something? Good grief, I have a lousy memory!

Then Fitz got appointed and Comey makes this press conference talking up the prestige and power he is confering on Fitz and the WH backed down and agreed to more normal interview procedure. Correct me please where ever I misrembered this stuff.

Arianna was correct in mocking the wave of the Presidential wand system of declassification â€”

The problem with De-Classification-Gate and Domestic-Spying-NSA-Gate is that they are too complex for modern political discourse. The DC Dems are correct to be wary of NSA-Gate, because the “Keeping You Safe” message easily trumps a complex argument about the 4th Amendment and data mining and all of the other nuances of the story. Simplify, simplify . . .

Arianna is on the right track — the Presidential Magic Wand is a great image, and a perfect metaphor that captures all of the Bush-as-Dictator outrages.

Ridicule is our friend, and simplicity is the point of the spear . . .

I had a lazy morning here in Missouri…pancakes with the kids and such…and was rushing through some of the great FDL stuff before reading anything from the “Main Stream Corporate Media.”

When I saw landansea’s post at #13, I was about to say that it was so full of lies and mis-statements that the poster must be a major troll. I didn’t see any comments to that effect, thought, and I didn’t want to be the first, since I’m not a frequent poster myself. So then I read the WaPoo editorial.

WOW! Can we send a giant troll-trexing party over to that formerly respectable rag? They deserve all the criticism that they are going to get. I mean, seriously, that piece could have been crafted by Hannity, O’Reilly, Malkin, Coulter all collectively sitting around a table with Karl Rove and then submitted to the Post for publication without any edits. The traditional “fourth estate” is dead. Thank goodness for FDL, Eschaton, TNH, TPM, etc.

Mary:
“ I do think Bush has the power to declassify (although even with the power, abuse of power still sets a limit on the exercise of that power, e.g., going on CNN and giving out nuclear security codes)”

But even in this case (”nucular” codes, in Shrub’s parlance) isn’t true that it’s still a political issue. Another words, is there a specific law that states that’s it’s illegal for the PRESIDENT to announce nuclear codes??? I don’t think so (but please correct me). It’s simply an application of common sense trumping a dose of Humpty-Dumpty. Am I wrong on this??? It’s important because if no “law” prevents the president from divulging nuclear codes, any appeal for censure, impeachment, treason, etc, lies only within common sense and not the law.

ceci, curious in central tx and tedb: nodding, Hersh was very clear on Wolfie about the danger and the planning. Two bit strike me as critical: first that we already have forces inside Iran stirring up trouble (which was the first step in Iraq as well) and second that the military included nuclear option as part of a complete list of options but asked that that be “walked back” and the WH refused to take it off the table.

I’ve been sending the pdf version of the Oxford Research Group’s briefing analysing outcomes of a war on Iran to my congresscritters and demanding that they act now to block any such war crime – I’ll be resending this week and calling them once again – as well as hoping to ask Obama about this at his Town Hall tomorrow if I can get a question slot. We need to ramp up the email/call/fax/visit actions to push the reps to oppose this now … not regret it later.

Here’s the link for the pdf I’m using (thx to markfromireland for this info)

Of course he did. Goopers try to pull his fat out of the fire by pointing out that “everyone thought Saddam had WOMD”- the implication is- “so although it turned out that what Bush said was wrong- it was not willfully wrong- so he didn’t lie”.

Of course that’s bullshit- he lied about three specific things at least:

-The connection between Saddam and Al Queda

-The yellowcake

-The aluminum tubes

In each of these cases- he had evidence that what he was alleging was false- but he said it anyway- he can wriggle and squiggle but he can’t get off those hooks.

Of course EVERY president who has taken the nation to war has lied- it’s a part of the process- you exaggerate the upside and the downside- you demonize the other nation- you minimize the risks- it happens EVERY time.

The indictment about Bush is not so much the lying- it’s the judgement.

It’s the decision to go to war at all under the circumstances.

It’s the decision to go in with too few troops.

It’s the decision to disband the entire Iraqi govt- including the army.

These were are perfectly STUPID decisions.

Likewise with the rest of his presidency.

Tax Cuts? OK- but too many- too big- and combined with an unfunded war and growth in spending- totally stupid

Energy policy? Encouraging domestic energy production? OK- but not at the expense of the conservation measures that could within 10 years reduce our dependance on foreign oil and ease world oil prices.

Again and again it’s the same story- this man lacks the judgement to be president.

Bush and Co. claim that Wilson is lying when he says he debunked their Niger claim because Wilson did confirm that his sources in Niger believed that the Iraqis, approaching them about “improving trade relations”, really wanted to buy uranium since that’s pretty much all Niger has that Iraq would want.

But Wilson’s sources, including the Minister of Mines at the time of the Iraqi overture, said that any transfer of uranium from Niger to Iraq was highly unlikely given controls in place. So Wilson reported back that almost certainly no uranium had changed hands. And for him, this was the same thing as debunking the administration’s “mushroom cloud” case for war.

But the administration chooses to look only at the confirmation of the attempt, rather than its failure to succeed. And it is just a fine enough point that they have ben getting away with it. And now the Post is carrying their water for them.

I can’t stop thinking that the main objective of the leak was to destroy Valerie Plame and the whole operation she was part of engaged in gathering accurate intelligience about Iran. Now as BushCo is beating the war drums to pre-emptively attack, perhaps even with NUKES for chissakes, I’m sure they are happy that no one can contradict their bullshit with real facts!

BobbyG – I’d like to note that I am a nascar fan (tho not a walmart shopper) and many of us do not fit the faux demographics promoted by MSM.

I think it’s very important for us to remember that the majority of the american people are disgusted with W and his lies and war and crimes – only around 35% still support him. This means that there are no “masses” out there who “don’t get it” – the people get it but the media and the dems do not. Instead of using critical nicknames for the folks who are on our side and potentially insulting them or belittling their astuteness on these issues, let’s focus our disdain on the real enemies.

This is a concern rather close to my heart – the american left has long had a tendency to see itself as wiser than the people at the same time the left wants to convert or “educate” the people. As Murtha noted, the american people are out in front on these issues – it’s the pols and media who are lagging.

I have to wonder what it will take for the American people to begin to realize that the greater danger to American and the world is not North Korea or Iran (the other two legs of Bush’s “Axis of Evil”), but the administration of George W. Bush and it’s support groups, which includes the Republican party, financial backers and incidentally the mainstream press.

Apparently the Post ran a correction to an earlier story in which they had reported that Wilsom confirmed Iraq’s attempt to buy uranium. In the correction, Joe Wilson clarifies that in his report he had NOT confirmed an attempt by Iraq to buy uranium … his report referred to Iran making such an attempt.

Of course, the WH must be relying on the original article (dated 7-10-04) sans correction when they make the claim that Wilson’s findings supported their case for war.

I completely agree with you. One of the problems with all of this is that it involves really arcane areas of law. Unless you need to know about these particular statutes, you wouldn’t even know they exist.

I am in the middle of organizing some continuing legal ed (CLE) on the topic b/c so many lawyers don’t understand these topics. They didn’t teach this in law school when I went.

Go to any bar association event in the country and ask about FISA, the Patriot Act, what the term “classified” actually means; see if you get a quality answer. Lawyers don’t understand much of this stuff, reporters are affrimatively getting it wrong, how the hell are regular folks who are busy trying to pay their mortgage and get their kids to soccer pratice on time supposed to figure this out?

That WaPo editorial is a travesty. It illustrates how deeply intertwined the corporatists and the fascist dictatorship BushCo are. This is about circling the wagons and protecting power at the expense of the truth and the principles that this nation was founded on.

The Washington Post (which Timmeh Pumpkinhead just this morning called “no conservative mouthpiece” or some such garbage) is an utter disgrace and we should ALL be calling bullshit here. Blood boiling…..

Re: ck # 69 “Ridicule is our friend, and simplicity is the point of the spear ”

So true!

I have an unfortunate window into wingnutia. I received the following in an e-mail this morning from someone who apparently doesn’t know my political beliefs. It’s just a sample of what the 36%ers believe, and how we have such an uphill battle.

FWIW, the same people that send along this unintelligble crap, also think Bill Gates will give them $1000 if they forward something 100 times.

WHAT’S ALL THE FUSS?
“Are we fighting a war on terror or aren’t we? Was it or was it not started by Islamic people who brought it to our shores on September 11 2001? Where people from all over the world, mostly Americans, wer brutally murdered that day, in downtown Manhattan, across the Potomac from our nation’s capitol and in a field in Pennsylvania?
Did nearly three thousand men, women and children die a
horrible, burning or crushing death that day, or didn’t they?
And I’m supposed to care that a copy of the Koran was
“desecrated” when an overworked American soldier kicked it or got it wet?
Well, I don’t.
I don’t care at all.
I’ll start caring when Osama bin Laden turns himself in
and
repents for incinerating all those innocent people on 9/11.
I’ll care about the Koran when the fanatics in the Middle East
start caring about the Holy Bible, the mere possession of which is a crime
in Saudi Arabia. I’ll care when Abu Musab al-Zarqawi tells the world he is
sorry for hacking off Nick Berg’s head while Berg screamed through his
gurgling, slashed throat.
I’ll care when the cowardly so-called “insurgents” in
Iraq come out and fight like men instead of disrespecting their own religion
by hiding in mosques. I’ll care when the mindless zealots who blow themselves
up in search of nirvana care about the innocent children within range of
their suicide bombs. I’ll care when the American media stops pretending that
thei First Amendment liberties are somehow derived from international
law instead of the United States Constitution’s Bill of Rights.
In the meantime, when I hear a story about a brave marine
roughing up an Iraqi terrorist to obtain information, know this: I don’t care.
When I see a fuzzy photo of a pile of naked Iraqi
prisoners who have been humiliated in what amounts to a college hazing incident,
rest assured that I don’t care.
When I see a wounded terrorist get shot in the head when
he is told not to move because he might be boobytrapped, you can take it
to the bank that I don’t care.
When I hear that a prisoner, who was issued a Koran and a
prayer mat, and fed “special” food that is paid for by my tax dollars, is
complaining that his holy book is being “mishandled,” you can absolutely
believe in your heart of hearts that I don’t care.
And oh, by the way, I’ve noticed that sometimes it’s spelled
“Koran” and other times “Quran.” Well, Jimmy Crack Corn and — you guessed
it, I could not have said this any better myself!

If you agree with this view point, pass this on to all
your e-mail friends. Sooner or later, it’ll get to the people responsible for
this ridiculous behavior! If you don’t agree, then by all means hit the
delete button.
Should you choose the latter, then please don’t complain
when more atrocities committed by radical muslims happen here in our great country.

awesome demonstration in Dallas on msnbc now … way more than the 100K expected
a beautiful picture – and a great movement
and how I would love to see us collaborating with latino and black progressives – we have so much to learn

Just a reminder for any locals in Portland, OR – Today the ‘Crashing the Gate’ tour is in town TODAY with Markos and Jerome. 3:30-7pm at the Lucky Lab pizza and brew pub (I’m leaving my wire fox terrier at home on this occasion) and from 7:30- 9:30pm at Powell’s bookstore. Hope to run into some fdl patrons! Cheers

Christy brings up a good point, one that has been overlooked for by the mainstream media, despite it being so basic as to really not need to be pointed out- the issue is not so much what Bush declassified as what he DIDNT declassify and why. The media has really dropped the ball on this aspect of the story but it could be the most important aspect.

What DIDNT bush declassify and does it demonstrate without a shadow of a doubt that Bush lied to the UN, the American people and worse (legally) Congress? Lying to Congress is no small matter even if one isn’t under oath and particularly when one is laying out evidence for war.

The dems would be well to point this out and the media would do well to also because it’s part of the story.

Immigration- the Rovian wedge issue to drive the base to the polls-the “homophobia” of 2006.
Any political opponent of the GOP would be well advised to say, “What was the GOP position on immigration again?”.

Let them hang themselves with the latino vote and agricultural industries…

“We need to ramp up the email/call/fax/visit actions to push the reps to oppose this now â€¦ not regret it later.”

Siun, I could not agree more. I plan to do just that. And read Hersh’s well researched 7000 word article in the New Yorker. Much as the administration wants to discredit Hersh, he has excellent sources and has a proven record. Not to mention a Pulitzer prize as well.
The idea the preznit still has 2 and a half years to spread havoc scares me to death.

By the way, Kerry was on fire on MTP. If only I did not have to listen and look at Pumpkinhead. I find him simply insufferable. He had the gall to insinuate WaPo is a liberal newspaper. What crap!

Those with a strong stomach better read the WaPo editorial “A Good Leak”.

Here is my letter to the editor:

To the editor:

The title of your editorial led me to believe that its contents would be a parody, a few days late for April 1st, but still an effort to get a few laughs out of a horrific situation.

The contents of the editorial did little to change this initial supposition.

When the President of the United States decides to destroy a country, cause the deaths of tens of thousands of people, dislocate the market for the world’s most important natural resource, and blacken the name of whoever gets in his path, he had better give the American people the whole story. George Bush didn’t. He doesn’t. He continually, repeatedly takes whatever “facts” he can find that support his position and conceals and suppresses anything that doesn’t.

Your editorial is despicable. You know it’s despicable. You know that you are currying favor with the worst administration in the history of the country. Have you no shame?

No one likes a liar and a cheat, and youâ€™ve just been exposed as just that sort of fraud.

It’s time for everyone to take a hard and serious look back on 9/11, for no other reason than to make sure Bush was in fact telling us the truth about those events. We know that his Administration has seriously lied about everything, from the Iraq war, to the Clear Skies Act, to the EPA warnings in NYC from 9/11.

It is time that we actually have an Independent inquiry into the events of 9/11. And don’t say the 911 Commission was independence. For starters, it took 911 victims to push for it’s creation, months after the events. Second, Bush first picked KISSENGER to run the thing! Third, it wasn’t a non-partisan commision, it was BI-partisan, hand picked by Bush. Not to mention that the lead man who was in charge of what the Commission looked into was Philip Zelikow, none other than the man who co-authored a book with Sec. Rice, worked under Rice, and also helped author a strategy memo in 2003 that helped make the case for pre-emption against Iraq because of 9/11!

Why do does this community think Bush lies about everything, but then can’t fathom the idea that he had done the same thing on 911?

I know I’m way off topic, just want to throw this out there. Iraq, there is no doubt, is an important issue. I think the real issues that are driving the darkside’s slide in the polls are energy costs and the meth epidemic in the middle of the country. Here in Cheyenne, WY I hear from people of all different political persuasions on these issues daily.

A smart, alternative candidate would seize upon these issues in the heartland and probably come out ahead.

“Senior Republican to Bush: say ‘exactly what happened.”
Sun Apr 9, 2006 11:13 AM ET14 By Diane Bartz
“WASHINGTON (Reuters) – A leading Republican urged President George W. Bush on Sunday to “tell the American people exactly what happened” in a leak of information aimed at countering criticism of his reasons for taking America to war in Iraq….”http://today.reuters.com/news/…..PECTER.xml

This reminds me of a moment I had here yesterday when markfromireland took offense at my slap at cows by describing McClellan’s look as bovine. I think he was kidding since he in turn took a swipe at the hapless baboon by comparing it to Scottie, and its colorful hiney, no less. I think it just underscores the delicate unintended consequence of distracting attention from the true point. People will see what amounts to an illusion of anything in the clouds, so it’s best to keep the sky as cloudless as possible.

Great catch Christy:
“On July 11, 2003, you trotted Condi out to say the following:
For instance, on July 11, seven days before key portions of the NIE were released, reporters badgered the then national-security adviser Condoleezza Rice to allow them to see some of the NIE, which had been used by the administration to make the case for war with Congress. “We donâ€™t want to try to get into kind of selective declassification,” said Rice, though she added, “Weâ€™re looking at what can be made available.” (emphasis mine)

Ceci – I put links on a “homepage url” for folks to use (my “homepage” now points to a nonblog a group of us Billmon refugees created a while back – we’ve been quiet but we made it friendly to OT discussions)- feel free to grab the links there to circulate.

The WH knows this could be the big crack in the dam. Bill Kristol ratcheting up a full blown attack on Fitz as a partisan hack aiming to bring down the president. Lot’s of diversionary cover. Of couse this also makes the insane one even more dnagerous.

Siun wrote:
â€œWe need to ramp up the email/call/fax/visit actions to push the reps to oppose this now â€¦ not regret it later.â€

ceci and siun, I’m with you on this totally. We need to get our FDL state by state groups organized as soon as we can to not only go visit our Dems but even more importantly to go visit the damn Republicans. It’s none of their business what political party we belong to, it is imperative to voice our concerns as constituents and Americans – in person – and make them notice us.

I know Pach is working on this but in the meantime I want to know who is from my state of Michigan besides Rayne, and who is willing to go to their offices in Lansing and Detroit. It’s past time to visit them personally. It’s past time to join in on some marches in the streets. This WH isn’t waiting until fall to bomb Iran, they are already invading.

I vaguely recall a part of Judy Miller’s narrative after she was released – at a St Regis meeting Scooter asked if she still had her security clearance, and pulled an apparently classified paper out of his coat pocket to show her. If that was the supposedly declassified part of the NIE, why would Miller be asked if she still had her clearance? If it wasn’t, what was he showing her? Anyone else remember this?

was just starting to post my thanks to you for # 92 and then they (NASCAR) let that monstrous incompetent ’speak’ before the start – both my husband and I are this close to giving up on the sport for this crap (he’s screaming into the phone to Brian France’s voicemail as I type ! will be wading in to the fan sites later to see if we can get folks to complain to Nextel

but anyway, you said it just right upstairs and saved me from stepping in it . thanks

Preznit ‘not under oath’ Bush cannot and will never answer the following;

“How does that make you feel, George? To know that most people assume automatically that if you are saying something, that means you are hiding something else or crossing your fingers behind your back?”

CBL! I missed the start of the race broadcast – was finding peanut butter for the pup and such … what happened? argh!!! I’ve noticed a serious decrease in W-hype on race day but it sounds like they fell back into the koolaid. Send me info (christina underscore siun at mac dot com) so I can give the Franz family a piece of my mind – and I recently met some folks working on nascar diversity issues with their major sponsors – maybe a little email to them would be useful.

This WaPo editorial is unbelievable. It has Bob Woodwards greasy fingerprints all over it.

Most of the assertions in the editorial are a)false, b) rebutted on page 1 of the WaPo itself and c) nothing more than disgusting cheerleading for George Bush.

Basically, it’s nothing more than a smear job of Joseph Wilson. But it ends proclaiming that George Bush basically did nothing wrong in declassifying his evidence for war- the WaPo selectively ignores the question of what Bush DIDNT choose to declassify because it rebutted his scase for war, but, hey- journalistic integrity isn’t exactly the WaPo’s concern these days is it?

Suzanne 74 – I haven’t been in a couple of years. last time I went the road had washed out. We tried to find it going overland but without the road we were, literally, lost.

If you stand on the porch at the rangers’ station, facing the woods opposite, it’s up the road to the left. After many turns onto smaller and smaller roads, you park at a switchback and pick up the trail there. You’ll come to a grove at the bottom of a hill, maybe 1/2 mile from road. it’s there. Semper Virens office at the ranger station might be able to direct you? Last name is Burby. It’s a lovely hike even if you don’t find it. And thanks.

John Casper, although I didn’t sign my name, I wrote the ‘immaculte declassification’ line in the WaPo Blog this morning. Glad you liked it and feel free to pass it around. I think it is a good meme for how this administration operates. Besides you know bush is going to say that God told him it was the right thing to do!