About 6 o clock tonight I was walking down to the video shop with a friend (japenese exchange student) to get a few movies. Anyway we were walking down one of the ramps leading to the shopping centre in which i noticed two druggo looking guys sitting down and talking. I didnt think much of it so we walked past them, suddenly the scruffy looking skinny one started yelling insults. " come here you [censored] dog hair [censored]" etc. Anyway I didnt want to get in a fight with 2 18 year olds so I walked on without saying anything. Anyway just as we were turning the corner into the shops he yelled anotehr insult, and I turned around and told him to [censored] off. As soon as I said that he ran over and tried to punch me in the face. I am extremely lucky he missed as I think it would have knocked me out, which god knows would have happened. Anyway after he threw the punch I threw a massively sloppy right hook, which connected. We then bolted like we had [censored] ants in our undies and ran into the shops. I was extremly lucky that he missed and I didnt, and that I had enough sense to run away. I admit, to my annoyance, that all my training went to hell and all I could think about was getting away. Im sure I wouldnt be in great shape right now had he not been drunk or whatever he was. Anyway I dont think ill walk around at night for a while, and hopefully you will take care too. I know it sounds silly, but please watch out where you walk at night, you might not be as lucky as me

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"They say the only way to kill a lion is with a rear naked choke, but I'd just kick it in the head"

Quote:Anyway just as we were turning the corner into the shops he yelled anotehr insult, and I turned around and told him to [censored] off. As soon as I said that he ran over and tried to punch me in the face.

That's the three layers of my self defensive principles. If I go past #2, I've done something wrong. If you'd used #1, you'd not have got into the situation at all. If you'd used #2, there would have been almost no chance of him getting a KO, even if he hit you.

Ouchers...Feel for ya. Hard situation to be in. A good example of why stimulus based training comes in handy (or stress training, or flight-or-flight reaction traingin, or wahtever you want to call it )

teh stress yorubody encounters during lethal encounters is very unlike the safe "pressure" you experience in the traiing hall...I've experienced that myself. Dont' give up on yoru traingin tho, just recognize that sometime it will be beneficial to undergo some form of adrenal stress straining. Worked wonders for me (the brain does some pretty amazing things when it realizes its #ss is in a slinger lol)

Quote:yeah I didnt really expect his reaction! It was kind of stupid now I think back because his friend was messing around with a pocketknife. Like I said though, I got lucky so I cant really complain

you didn't expect his reaction!! a guy starts shouting insults at you in an attempt to engage you in a confrontation, you oblige him by telling him to 'go forth and multiply' and you are suprised that he tried to knock your head off.

No, come on now, what you didn't expect was for him to travel that far from his seat to persue you. You fell into the old trap of being a 'remote hard guy'. This involves getting braver/more aggressive in direct relation to greater distance from your target. As a door worker, I can not tell you how many people have threatened all sorts of things from 100 yards away having walked from the doorstep as quietly as a mouse.DO NOT BECOME ONE OF THESE IDIOTS.

As for 'my training didnt kick in' We have seen you spar full contact remember- your training doesn't even kick in when you are training. Maybe now you can understand why people were so critical of that clip. or maybe not.

Wise up young Jedi, thats one portion of your life's luck spent needlessly.

Quote: I admit, to my annoyance, that all my training went to hell and all I could think about was getting away.

That sentence should speak volumes to all of us. Thanks for posting this. Funny that we train for years for these moments and instinct still takes over in the clutch. I'm not sure what to do about it, but the knowledge alone is worthwhile.

I think that was a lesson well learned. If you knew these guys were druggies next time you be the sane person don't speak out just react if he tries to attack you.

As for your training not kicking in, I think it did you just didn't follow up. It reminds me of this student (now a Instructor) that that told me that his training didn't work. He was knocking this guy down with a kick but the guy kept gettng up. Like I told him your training worked you just didn't follow up. You LET HIM GET BACK UP, too proud of your handy work.

Your hook hit him, if you would have followed up you may would have floored him, probably. In the street a hook punch or any technique is not going to be perfect sometimes, but a hit is a hit, what you really want is a technique that changes his mind on who he's attacked!!! If I had a dime for every ugly technique that hit or floored a attacker I'd have some money.

If you thought his missed attack could have, what do you think he thought about your strike that did, he is proablby still feeling his jaw or loose tooth. Thinking man I hate I picked that guy, he wasn't as weak as he looked damn.

Don't worry about it being pretty or text book, worry about that it got him off your a$$!!!

Lesson learned, shutup and follow up if you have too. Or once he gets in range he never finishes his attack. Good job, man. Ain't nothing wrong with running thats part of your training. Ain't nobody gonna raise your hand give you a trophy. The Trophy is that you didn't freez and you defend yourself.

Sorry for being long winded but you sounding like you lost something but you really gained.

Nice one mate! Its always scary and best to avoid using your skills. But you walked away in one peace that’s what matters.

You said he missed with his attack, or did you evade it? (Constant training actually working in the subconscious)

A Neko says “a hit is a hit” it wasn’t a training partner holding the kick shield, or the punch bag, it was a real person, cant have been that sloppy a punch as it hit and took him out!! (did he fall?)

I’m not surprised that some of the more self righteous on these forums, who seek any opportunity to lecture from on high have given you some criticism.

Self preservation is of course important, but living with the feeling you are a total coward and that a lesser creature has got the better of you is a hard pill to swallow.

I don't want to add critisism, but I want to gently suggest something. the posts that I ahve seen of yours in the past week have had to deal with critisism of "excessive" violence - the silly thread about rubber tubing and the thread about cops. then, in a real life situation, it could be argued that you used substantially less than suffitent force to complete what you were trying to do.

i would consider the relationship between these facts.

I would venture that you kick better than I do, and have a great deal better wind that I do. I would say that you probrably have much better form. however, the times that I have had to use violence, it was over quickly and cleanly.

As far as your training not coming in handy is concerned, I think it comes down to lot's and lot's of hard live (or Alive) training, including sparring, hard, grappling, live, all in, adrenal stress training as was mentioned, etc.

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Member of DaJoGen MMA school under Dave Hagen and Team Chaos fight team under Denver Mangiyatan and Chris Toquero, ran out of Zanshin Martial Arts in Salem Oregon: http://www.zanshinarts.org/Home.aspx,

Well, i have no idea what you are training at. i myself train for 5 years in Goju ryu karate (currenlt brown belt)and i must say few things i have learned during my trainings, lots of reading stuff and 2 street incidents i had to "resolve":it is obvious that you will not execute 100% of your abilities in trainings in real street fight. about 70% will be expected and just enough - this is the result of pressure and having to face the REAL thing. this is why teachers requires 100% - so the 70% which will finally be executed will be enough.there is a strong need to use imagination during your trainings - don't see it as safe as it is. always see opponents who wants to hurt you.i've seen many people from all levels training in my method and others who just don't get it. time gave them ranks and they think they are invinsible till a true street test happens. there is a true need in making a mind switch at some point of the trainings - we learn deadly arts.if "all your training went to hell", i believe it is a problem in your mind and the way you participate in your lessons. a good time to do that mind switch - think about it.

Quote:I’m not surprised that some of the more self righteous on these forums, who seek any opportunity to lecture from on high have given you some criticism.

oh I do hope that was aimed at me- i always welcome new members to my fanclub Is pointing out the stupidity of hurling verbal insults and smack-talk at potentialy violent people when you have absolutely no wish to fight them a 'self righteous' post?

i am in regular contact with Crab, and am in the process of helping him make the right choices academicaly to fulfill his wish of working in the fitness industry.You actualy helped anyone on here recently?

See- now that came off as self righteous.

Quote:Self preservation is of course important

Of course. Thats why inflaming aggressive people is dumb. Fight if you have to, dont cause trouble with a big mouth that makes promises the body can't keep.

As for my comments being directed at you, well if the cap fits, wear it. But I certainly didn’t have members ship of your fan club as my agenda. I should imagine you aren’t short of members and really don’t need me, very kind of you to offer anyway.

Last time I helped someone on this forum? You wouldn’t know, as I wont BOAST about it, unlike some.Also I might exercise my free will and Choose NOT to try and help other, complete strangers, on this forum.. Is that allowed?

Regards

Mark

PS: Did you take your Forum name from the film Silent Flute? I still have a copy of that film, its great, I particularly like the “monkey” fight……….

hey guys sorry havnt read this thread for a while. All your advice is good so far. Yep your right cord i shouldve kept my mouth shut but I didnt think hed run over since i was about to turn a corner and i was like 15 metres away. Anyway ive learned a lesson for the future so yeah... oh and mark

Quote: ou said he missed with his attack, or did you evade it?)

no he missed by a mile, i didnt evade or anything. Too shocked i guess.

Cord is helping me with a few things at the moment and i am thankful for that. ( now i jsut have to convince him to do my homework )

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"They say the only way to kill a lion is with a rear naked choke, but I'd just kick it in the head"

I have never considered myself a martial artist, I am not in active study of any art at the moment, and even when I am, I dont think there is any 'art' in what I do

I was not being oversensitive, I was however, the only person to give Crab a particularly hard time over his actions as detailed in this thread, therefore, there is no one else your negative comment could be aimed at.

I dont agree with everyone, nor am I always agreed with, but I dont agree that I am 'self righteous', and it certainly is never my motivation or intention when posting.

Quote: As for my comments being directed at you, well if the cap fits, wear it. But I certainly didn’t have members ship of your fan club as my agenda. I should imagine you aren’t short of members and really don’t need me, very kind of you to offer anyway.

So it was aimed at me. That indicates that I didnt offer membership, you kind of applied. If you take an oblique swipe at someone, expect to be called on it. Action and reaction- its the way of the world.

Quote:Last time I helped someone on this forum? You wouldn’t know, as I wont BOAST about it, unlike some.

Did you not see how i put this aspect in my post to specificaly highlight what a 'self righteous' post would be like, as opposed to just offering an opinion on the events detailed (as Crab wanted- he didn't have to tell us anything about the incident. By posting it, he was inviting comment from us all)

Quote:Also I might exercise my free will and Choose NOT to try and help other, complete strangers, on this forum.. Is that allowed?

Of course it is. Maybe that is the trouble. I dont see Crab as a 'complete stranger'. He is a good kid, so if I said 'well done mate' everytime he did something stupid/dangerous, I could validate actions that if repeated could get him killed. That would upset me greatly.

If you dont care, why contribute at all? go read a book.

Quote:PS: Did you take your Forum name from the film Silent Flute? I still have a copy of that film, its great, I particularly like the “monkey” fight……….

That is indeed the source of my name. my fave MA movie by a country mile

Great come back Cord!! That is what I love about forums, a good argument, ( and not just the 5 minutes )

I have always marvelled at how some people take posts from complete strangers so personal: I just enjoy a good hard debate ( oh err Missus ) Which is the sole reason I post controversial opinions, Lol Some of the time, I vehemently disagree with what I write, just want to see where it will go.

You got me with this:- “So it was aimed at me. That indicates that I didnt offer membership, you kind of applied. If you take an oblique swipe at someone, expect to be called on it. Action and reaction- its the way of the world.”

I wont underestimate you again

Regards

Mark

PS: I bet you favourite character in The silent Flute is the guy in the barrel of oil

Quote:About 6 o clock tonight I was walking down to the video shop with a friend (japenese exchange student) to get a few movies. Anyway we were walking down one of the ramps leading to the shopping centre in which i noticed two druggo looking guys sitting down and talking. I didnt think much of it so we walked past them, suddenly the scruffy looking skinny one started yelling insults. " come here you [censored] dog hair [censored]" etc. Anyway I didnt want to get in a fight with 2 18 year olds so I walked on without saying anything. Anyway just as we were turning the corner into the shops he yelled anotehr insult, and I turned around and told him to [censored] off. As soon as I said that he ran over and tried to punch me in the face. I am extremely lucky he missed as I think it would have knocked me out, which god knows would have happened. Anyway after he threw the punch I threw a massively sloppy right hook, which connected. We then bolted like we had [censored] ants in our undies and ran into the shops. I was extremly lucky that he missed and I didnt, and that I had enough sense to run away. I admit, to my annoyance, that all my training went to hell and all I could think about was getting away. Im sure I wouldnt be in great shape right now had he not been drunk or whatever he was. Anyway I dont think ill walk around at night for a while, and hopefully you will take care too. I know it sounds silly, but please watch out where you walk at night, you might not be as lucky as me

there is nothing wrong with running away. although i was not trained this in my dojo.. i was trained this as a reserve cop.. that if you can run away to avoid fighting, do so.. i don't see anything cowardice about this.. maybe cuz i'm female?..lol...there was a situation once.. where i just walked away quickly. this guy was staring at me on the train.. and then he got up, and moved over to my side.. and i think he tried to touch me.. and i could've waited around to see if he tried to make contact again.. but instead of dealing with that.. and possibly having to hurt him. i just walked to the next car...he was high too i think...

My two cent the only mistake you made was mouthing off in the last minute and expecting too much from yourself.

You did well until his last insult, then you had to say something. Thats just being human sometime its hard to take and take and take. It seem like you were a victim of circumstance any and everybody can and will be one if we keep living and walking the streets at night. Maybe he learned something, Maybe he will be quite next time he see two people walking at night. You also learned a valuable lesson, victory in the street is survival.

As for sloppy technique, in your own words he missed you didn't that = success, in my books. Some consider me a high rank black belt, but in hind sight if I could take back the techniques that worked but didn't look good, I wouldn't. What I realized IS that it did Worked, I've knocked people down and out with sloppy techniques (especially hooks, sometimes have entered that technique in my things to improve, if he doesn't know what it is the greater chance of him getting hit hard).

My real point is when you fight it's not gonna look like a Kata or the movies most time.

As long as it works is what counts. Now practice that hook so that next time you deck him or splatter his nose.

One thing you found out sloppy or not you get to tell your story to assoicates with teeth in your mouth and not from a hospital bed to a police detective.

Do your thang dude, work that hook punch try to combo it with a grion kick for me. Like the game of horse shoes sloppy counts on the real if you survive.

Chi it doesn't matter how big the attacker was unless you want to try to analyze the effect of Crabs sloopy hook and how to make it more powerful in hindsight.

That hooks gone and done for I'd work the heavy bag and striking pad preparing for the next one. Because ain't nothing you gonna do now but whine and complain about the hook used. Its like a spilled glass of milk, lets clean it up so the next one is more useful the next time. Add a kick to the groin for me, thats like dunking a Oreo cookie, soft in the middle.

How big the attacker was doesn't matter a very small man can hurt you bad. If he order sh%^ he should eat it.

In hindsight the hook could have been better, but it worked so it was a sufficent until the next time. Imho.

"Leo_E_49" mentions that if physical confrontation occurs you've done something wrong. I don’t necessarily think this is true. Sometimes, if someone’s that determined, nothing you can do or say can defuse the situation. However I do agree that on this occasion avoidance would have been possible. However, I not going to be that critical of your choice to reaction. You drew the line at a certain point which is perfectly acceptable. You have to draw the line somewhere as, for example, you wouldn’t watch while somebody murdered your family. Yes that’s an extreme example but it demonstrates the point. Maybe next time you'll draw the line somewhere else.

As a few people have said, a key part of training must be pressure testing.

Amen to keeping your trap shut. The odds are usually against you when you mouth off or enrage the punk in any way. However, you forgot to carry a key chain pepper spray, so you were not really prepared. I literally walk around with mine in my hands when I feel the time is right, though as you point out, you never know when you will be attacked, so it's mandatory you walk around with your pepper spray in your hands, ready to use at a moments notice. Or am I being paranoid?

i had about 30 -35 years in the martial arts, before i realized the majority of my training in self defense.i learned prior to martial arts training... i was a street fighter..in the projects..alleys..poolhalls.. bars...where ever....in a major city.. numerous times rated as the #1 murder capital in the usa......i was used to fighting....way way to many fights ..well over a hundred..but i had been there.. felt the pressure...learned to relax..it took a while....its nothing like the dojo ..etc.....i had 7-8 years experience fighting.. faced tire irons..beer bottles..been cut..so when i was in japan ..sparring with higher ranked people in the late 60's..i would fight with an intensity that the others did not have.it was hard to tone it down..which i was asked to do..so i have told my students over the years ..all that training can shut down ..so try to be as realistic as possible in your training.. cause when someone is trying to scramble your brainpan he doesn't give a damm how much time you have spent in the dojo..

haha good job on the quick feet of running away, if you really don't think you could handle yourself against someone then i suggest you keep your mouth shut and use the fact that you got pushed around/cussed out as a fuel to become stronger faster and more skilled in fighting so you could defend yourself against people like that in this world. You won't always get lucky sometimes in situations like this you will need to fight back so more you learn better you are! Goodluck

_________________________please choose a signature and homepage that do not link directly to the products you sell. Many thanks, Cord.

It's all situational awareness, thinking ahead, and throwing away your pride (MUCH easier said than done needless to say). Situational awareness being the most important part, as it allows you to notice options and possible threats before they come about.Sorry I'm never on anymore, half the time I live in my turret, the other half I'm o nthe phone with my poor worried wife.

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Member of DaJoGen MMA school under Dave Hagen and Team Chaos fight team under Denver Mangiyatan and Chris Toquero, ran out of Zanshin Martial Arts in Salem Oregon: http://www.zanshinarts.org/Home.aspx,

I know a lot of people here might say that marital arts training might be your best defense, however, we have to say a simple, $15 pepper spray that you keep on your keychain can stop several attackers at the same time, without putting a .45 through their head & having to deal with the Coppers.

I'd pretty much agree. The last thing you want to do o nthe street, is go all Bruce Lee on someone (or several people). The best thing you can do is stack advantages in your favor to increase the liklihood of coming out intact. When you go bare handed there tends to be wayy too much that can go wrong; too many variables. In the Army the goal of martial arts training is A. to provide a last ditch weapon if you have no other options and B. provide a way to survive and control an engagement till you can either get a weapon that gives you some advantage or link up with buddies (who have weapons) and in the civilian world it gives you a way to neutralise the threat well enough to effectively escape using bare hands when you that's all you have.You should always strive to find something to give you an advantage i.e a weapon of some sort, obstacles so you can get away, buddies, whatever. And then try and escape when there's a good opportunity. Your first instinct really shouldn't be to take care of every self defense situation you can with unarmed skills and if you do then make it pre-emptive if you know something is coming. Either way it's always best to get as much of an upperhand as possible (without going to extremes anyway). The last thing you want is for it to be fair or to be at the disadvantage. And thats' where situational awareness comes in, you can learn to see your options ahead of time.

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Member of DaJoGen MMA school under Dave Hagen and Team Chaos fight team under Denver Mangiyatan and Chris Toquero, ran out of Zanshin Martial Arts in Salem Oregon: http://www.zanshinarts.org/Home.aspx,