First & 17 Twitter Chat (Da'Shawn Hand)

Most readers are up to speed on all Da'Shawn Hand related news. With that said, I wanted to mention that there is a live chat on Twitter with Mike Farrell of Rivals and Brad Horn of the Washington Post. Brad is the journalist behind First and 17 and has worked closely all season with Da'Shawn.

Here is the Washington Post article discussing the chat and the Twitter Link:

So, let's handicap this decision. 65/35 Michigan? 60/40? I know you Chicken Little's don't give us a chance at all, but 2 losses matter way more to us than a recruit. Besides, we were expected to be 8-4 this year. And Mattison is not on the hot seat at all. Realistically, neither is Hoke, unless we regress again next year. Which I don't think will happen.

...and how he wouldn't let that affect his decision. Since it's on the Freep, I don't want to rile people up by posting a link to it. But it's there if you'd like to read it. The quotes are from Mike Farrell, not Hand.

To add to the optimism, before you scroll down to the negatives, every single person to do their Crystal Ball on 247 this month has picked Michigan, including JC Shurburtt (the director at 247) switching from Bama to Michigan. It sounds like, to me, there is just a lot of smoke out there. Gun to my head, house on the line, I'd pick Michigan, but I wouldn't be very confident.

On top of all that, how many people were predicting that we'd barely escape with a victory at home against Akron and on the road against a UConn team that hasn't won a damn game all season? That we haven't been able to run the ball all season long, and that we'd crap the bed on the road at an "undermanned" Penn State squad? That we'd look so shitty by late season that we're an underdog to a Northwestern squad decimated by injuries and winless in the conference?

We were decidedly more optimistic than the mainstream media. We are two plays from being 8-1. Conversely, we are two drives from being 4-5. Such is life. Were we 8-1, and had scrapped through the two winnable games, would your opinion of our team be much different?

Despite the doom and gloom on these boards, our team has a bright future. It's hard for fans to look to the future when the present sucks so bad, but looking objectively. Our DC is solid. Our recruiting is solid. Our question mark is the offense, which is going to be greatly improving, simply due to an influx of talent at most positions.

Sam's recruiting roundup this morning just sounded like he was setting UM fans up for the disappointment tomorrow. The part about academics not being the only factor, he said don't read too much, but read a little into the fact that he wasn't going to be at Hand's announcement, like he was at Green's. It just sounded negative overall.

Sam tried to assert that his non-attendance didn't mean anything one way or the other, but my reaction when I heard him say that was that he can't justify his employer spending the money to send him down to VA because the odds don't look good right now.

Hand's been close-mouthed enough throughout the process that nobody outside the family truly knows what he's going to do, but all of this is why I think we're the underdog now, regardless of the fact we were leading for him earlier in the year.

Sounds like dad is applying pressure. Wonder if Da'Shawn agrees? It's always possible (albeit very unlikely) for the kid to disagree with the parent. I'll be cautiously optimistic while I take my reality pills.

That's not indicated by anything Sam has reported. In fact, Webb reiterated this morning that his father's stance is that regardless of what decision Da'Shawn makes, he's going to have to justify it and explain it to him. In other words, his dad isn't going to be OK with a decision that appears to be off the cuff or poorly thought out.

I usually consider "academics are important!" to be just fluff. There are exceptions, as always, but I think that's definitely the case here. Unless there is a degree that Alabama offers that Michigan doesn't, no one would pick Alabama over Michigan based on academics. A couple weeks ago he said he was considering Alabama for engineering, which is comical.

Kid looks like Bama to me and I've already resigned to the fact that noon Thursday he's going to put the red hat on. Better to get the disappointment out ahead of time.

Do we even know whether Hand would be admitted to UM's engine school as a freshman? It's a tremendously rigorous program and very selective in its admission standards. Plenty of smart high school students with strong academic records can't get in.

Normally first year classes were all on main campus (physics, chem, eng, math, math, math), you got the E101 = Fortran experience as a weed-out class for all types of engineers. This may have changed over some years.

I think Eng has to reserve a spot at the start but its not all over if one decides to change their mind along the way and go LS&A or other.

Are you saying that you would refuse to buy a building whose structure and mechanical systems were designed by graduates of Alabama's engineering program? That you would refuse to fly in a plane whose hydraulics were designed by Alabama engine grads?

There's no doubt that Michigan's engine program is much more highly ranked than Alabama's, but that doesn't mean that Alabama grads in engineering are automatically incompetent idiots who can't perform professional work. It's not like Da'Shawn is choosing between Michigan and the University of Phoenix.

To make an analogy: nobody would sensibly assert that UM's program in medicine isn't superior to the vast majority of medical programs out there. Does that mean that patients facing surgery anywhere in the US should refuse to go under the knife if the surgeon is a graduate of a medical program rated lower than Michigan's?

I think some Michigan people have a hard time understanding people who see *any* major state university as a pretty desireable place to be. It seems to be lost on some that not everyone comes from a family used to picking between Cal Tech, Michigan, and NW.

That's a great point. I don't know the educational background of the Hand family, but for a large percentage of minority high school kids from all over the country, they are among the first in their families to attend college of any kind. Coming from that, the differences between Michigan and Alabama might well seem insignificant.

just like I have no problem with Wayne State engineering or even MSU engineering. I have a problem when a recruit says academics are important/priority and they choose Bama engineering over U-M engineering. Whether Hoke steered him away from engineering is irrelevant, it's obvious that academics aren't that important to Hand.

Completely fucking obvious, seeing as the kid hasn't even made a pick yet. This place pisses me off sometimes. But go ahead and knock the kid because shit isn't going well in your life and you need somewhere to vent.

Or, you know what? Don't have an input about the choices a kid makes on his 18th birthday. Or just act butthurt on a message board. Either way, I guess, is cool.

For lots of kids, I agree that "academics are important to me" is just fluff that they say because they know that's what people want to hear, but I don't think that's necessarily the case with Hand.

Most here are probably too young to remember the recruitment of Myron Rolle, a DB from New Jersey who was the top-ranked DB in 2006 and on everybody's HS All-America list. Every program of any significance offered him, and because he had stellar grades in HS and made it known that he eventually wanted to go into medicine, most Michigan fans thought he was a lock to come here.

I still remember the absolute shock and disbelief in Ann Arbor when he chose Florida State, and many UM fans immediately concluded that he wasn't serious about education after all. He was a three-year starter at FSU, but still managed to become a Rhodes Scholar in the bargain. After a brief stint in the NFL, Rolle is now enrolled in FSU's College of Medicine in the class of 2017.

In other words, the fact that Rolle chose FSU over UM didn't mean he didn't take education seriously back in 2006, and there's no reason right now to think that Hand doesn't take education seriously too.

There was a recent video put out by an African American student at UCLA pointing out that there are more NCAA titles at UCLA than non athlete African American male freshmen. Many students of color may choose academics and will choose a school that we may consider lesser because they feel they will actually get the resources they need to succeed.

it is not always the ranking in US News and World Report that matters.

Bama is going for its third championship. Michigan has not even been to the B1G championship game. In fact, I will be surprised if Hand and McDowell pick Michigan. If this coaching team (rightly or not) struggles again next year, wd it surprise you if there is another coaching change? If you are a top recruit who doesnt really care about academic, you would probably pick Bama too.

Based on everything Sam Webb has said recently, and listening between the lines so to speak, 88% seems a bit high to me. I'm curious what goes into their analysis, since Hand and his family have been pretty tight-lipped.

Regardless, Hoke and his staff have already proven that they're tremendous recruiters, and if anybody can keep Hand away from Saban, they can.

You say it yourself that you're "reading between the lines", I am not sure how you do that because you can add in your own interpretation of anything he says. If you think about his dad saying he will have to explain his decision I see it as "we know where you should go son and you know where you should go but if youre going to make a decision we dont agree with than youre going to have to really justify that choice." If we all werent so pessimistic about everything because our football team lost a couple games than we wouldnt see the negative in words that we gone and placed there with our own minds

Sam is very good what he does. The best UM based reporter that there is in my opinion. However, he doesn't bat .1000. Just recently he picked Blackmon to UM the very morning James was making his decision. He is wrong sometimes. Nothing wrong with that.

Perhaps I'm just selectively remembering things, but I think when Sam whiffs on a recruiting prediction, it's almost always been a whiff of optimism. I can't think of a high-profile recruit he's predicted to go elsewhere who has ended up coming to UM.

While he has been consistently optimistic about Hand, he has not had any of his "gut feelings" about him either, which basically means Hand hasn't privately tipped his hand.

Sam's predictions for final five guys in this class: Da'Shawn Hand, Artavis Scott, Malik McDowell, Jamarco Jones, and Adoree Jackson.

Making those kinds of predictions is really hard, so I'm not dumping on the guy, but unless someone seems to have first-hand knowledge of what a kid's doing (no pun intended), I generally take these predictions with a grain of salt. I've been saying for awhile that I'm skeptical of the "Michigan's the clear leader" stuff on Hand. He surprised everyone with his final list of three and has said that he doesn't know why everyone thinks he has a favorite. Sometimes I think one "expert" comes up with a prediction and then the echo chamber starts going, making it look like there's consensus when it's really not based on anything.

Mike Farrell picked Michigan, and he has spent more time around the Da'shawn Hand recruitment than anyone. I'm sorry, but in this region of the country, I'll take Mike's opinion over Sam Webb's. Mike has known Da'shawn since he was a Freshman, and has been in the most recent contact with Da'shawn himself.

Youre a Sam Webb disciple and youre interpreting his words the way you want to hear them without any "facts". if you want to hear facts look at the fact that he knows the kid, his family, the way Da'shawn functions and the way he will go about making this decision. If i wanted to know something about a guy who is very close to the vest I would go with someone who is close to that vest and not some guy who is just making guesses. If Da'shawns father is talking to sam it cant be all bad because they wouldnt want to lead schools on they made that obvious from pretty much the start of his recruitment

I just listened to the podcast of Sam's recruiting roundup, and I didn't come away pessimistic - or optimistic. Sam said he's not going to VA for the announcement b/c he doesn't know what's going to happen. My sense from the tone of his voice is that he truly doesn't know which way Hand is leaning. It certainly sounds true that Michigan is not remotely a slam dunk, but I don't think Alabama is either.

that the longevity of the current staff at the school he's considering is important, and I think the subtext was the rumormongering about Saban leaving for Texas. That can't help Alabama, since Saban is a proven coaching philanderer.

Well, he states that Farrell has known him the longest, and that there are reasons that he would be the most trustworthy source in this case, particularly since Hand is from VA. Farrell has a track record of correctly predicting many commitments particularly in that region. EJ Levenberry happened. He seemed to be one of the early ones to call Green to Mich. There are perhaps reasons to speculate in the other direction too. Nothing has really happened recently to substantiate either view. The team has lost a few games and looked like crap in general, but maybe Hand sees the struggles and wants to come in and be a contributor early on. But the board's take on the subject has been, in my opinion, overly pessimistic.

I don't understand the pessimism here, either. There have been 10 predictions in November for Hand, and all 10 of them are in favor of Michigan. One of them, as pointed out, switched to Michigan from Alabama (by their #1 predictor). Even a Southern analyst (Brian McLaughlin) made a recent prediction for Michigan.

The most recent Alabama prediction dates back to mid-July. If there was significant movement toward Alabama based on the official, I would expect some guys (especially some Alabama guys) to switch their predictions to Alabama.

I'm pretty sure he has good grades, and Michigan doesn't impose more than the NCAA minimum of academic standards for athletes, does it? If he can get in Bama, he can get in Michigan unless I'm very badly mistaken.

Hand has probably been pensive and quiet for good reason, given all the "Roll Tide" hollering going on on his cell phone 24/7.

But if it's Alabama, then I say best of luck to him. He'll no doubt have a great experience there too. The cool thing about being 18 and a great athlete as that you get a choice and opportunity like this.

But I think deep down he really likes UM, likes the coaches and would feel very comfortable with the new teammates in Ann Arbor.

If any glass half empty guy likes to read between the lines when it comes to the descision there is some optimistic sights over at 247 as the D. Hand announcement is all over the michigan front page and the alabama front page...not so much. they are still talking about the game and recruits who were there when if they thought they were getting another one of the countries best recruits they would be all over it.

hey if one of us can read between the lines than we all should be able to do it.

Absolutely... that's what the internet is for. I'm just some idiot with an opinion based on what I read and hear and my intuition, and nothing more. If I'm right even 50% of the time I'd be surprised. That's why I don't spend any time in casinos.

People need to stop saying "academics" as Hand's main or 2nd main reason for choosing a school. It's not academics, it's what he wants to do with his life after football is over.

His version of "academics" is Engineering vs Sports Management/Marketing. The quality of the academics doesn't really have too much of an impact (as someone else has stated). He knows he can get into Alabama's Engineering program and get a good enough education to be successful in that field when football is over. He also knows he can get into UofM's Sports Management program and stay in football potentially forever.

This is what it's coming down to, not which school is higher in educational quality.

Hand sees the field a fair amount in Year 2 at M (which could be after a RS year).

Hand sees the field a fair amount in Year 3 at Bama IF he can prove himself as elite as his presumably much greater competition for the job.

Its sort of a balance between playing time and the level of competition.

Alabama has an ABET program for engineering. I think they turn out engineers as serviceable as anywhere.

The problem I see is more about engineering AND football. Most struggle to complete an Eng degree in 4 years as it is without this second 'job' which also involves travel. Agreed the tutors are there. But its not that simple. There are weed-out courses which involve hours and hours of frustrating lab/computer time that aren't recorded as class hour time. Those who have been there know of what I speak.

I really think any push towards sports management is a piece of advice really and truly designed to help Hand throughout his whole life.

It's probably easier to succeed at engineering at Alabama than at Michigan. There are quite a few factors to consider, even beyond Michigan accepting Hand into the engineering program.

1. Call it arrogance if you want. It's going to be tougher to get a good grade in a Michigan engineering course (or physics, calc). Hand will be competing against students of a higher academic caliber, and in a class with a curve this makes a huge difference.

2. The requirements in terms of coursework may be less stringent at Alabama. Again, who you are competing against makes all the difference.

Having an engineering degree and being a former Alabama football player will open a ton of doors for Hand.

So having the more rigorous engineering program may actually be a disadvantage for Michigan.

I don't hear anyone objecting with the possibility that Saban goes to Texas to replace Mack Brown. This may not be a story much any more nationally, but it gets bantered about quite frequently on slow sports days among the 3 stations here in Dallas. If there is anything to it, I would bet someone in Hand's circle has heard from someone in the know that there is at least a greater than zero chance Coach Saban is not there next year. Hoke and Mattison we can be sure are not going anywhere, unless this years ends like 2010.