I disagree on your assessment of this body. While I agree many people are underwhelmed by this offering, let's keep in mind that Canon is still in "catch up mode", trying to deal with how it will respond to the D800. This was likely in the pipeline long before some high MP body was conceived, and I think it fits in to the Canon lineup quite nicely.

That said, I think this body has a place in the toolbox for many working pros. I, for one, would much rather have an affordable full-frame back-up body for events/weddings. Don't get me wrong, the 7D has worked as a solid back-up for me thus far, but it has left a lot to be desired in the realm of low-light situations where AF and noise management are critical.

With the ISOs and (most likely) reduced noise over the crop-sensor of the 60D, this will become a go-to back up for budget conscious pros. I think it will be immensely popular with pros, and enthusiasts who are just looking for a little "more."

Absolutely, it's been in the pipeline for a while and not positioned against the D800 rather the D600. As for it's place in the line up that's what I'm getting at... what is the main target market.

For yourself you see it is a potential backup... not your main camera... so I assume you agree with its limitations for pro use. And you also point out it's a back up for budget conscious pros. So yes, some will use it as a back up but many will also see it as too hobbled and just have a second 5D3 (it will only be $1400 more).

I'm starting to realize that the average consumer (and even the average armature photographers) knows next to nothing about Crop/Full Frame benefits. For example, today I was explaining to my friend how the new D600 is different than his D7000 (yes he shoots with Nikon... so I guess he's just my acquaintance). And after 10 minutes of sorting through jargon and drawing him some diagrams on the back of a napkin, he still didn't understand the advantage of having a full frame. For him it just made more sense to stick to his trusty crop sensor. And if this rings true for a lot of other consumers, both Nikon AND Canon should have an equally hard time selling these spiffy new FF bodies.

Let's say it's stellar IQ... as good as the 5D3 (it won't be better, Canon's not going to put their best in a 6D and second best in the 5D3). Then so what? It's a great sensor in a hobbled body for $2k... who's buying it?

IF (low chance though) its IQ is BETTER than the 5D3, people may buy it. That was what happened with the Canon Rebel 300D vs Nikon D70/D100.

But products do not exist in vacuum, the D600 is priced identically with far better specs. In this regard, the 6D may be the next major flop like the 1000D (when the sales of the latter is compared to the Nikon D3000).

No chance it will be better, not when they are released in the same time frame... if a year had gone by then some new advance in sensor tech may have been implemented but not this soon.

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shannon76

I disagree on your assessment of this body. While I agree many people are underwhelmed by this offering, let's keep in mind that Canon is still in "catch up mode", trying to deal with how it will respond to the D800. This was likely in the pipeline long before some high MP body was conceived, and I think it fits in to the Canon lineup quite nicely.

That said, I think this body has a place in the toolbox for many working pros. I, for one, would much rather have an affordable full-frame back-up body for events/weddings. Don't get me wrong, the 7D has worked as a solid back-up for me thus far, but it has left a lot to be desired in the realm of low-light situations where AF and noise management are critical.

With the ISOs and (most likely) reduced noise over the crop-sensor of the 60D, this will become a go-to back up for budget conscious pros. I think it will be immensely popular with pros, and enthusiasts who are just looking for a little "more."

Absolutely, it's been in the pipeline for a while and not positioned against the D800 rather the D600. As for it's place in the line up that's what I'm getting at... what is the main target market.

For yourself you see it is a potential backup... not your main camera... so I assume you agree with its limitations for pro use. And you also point out it's a back up for budget conscious pros. So yes, some will use it as a back up but many will also see it as too hobbled and just have a second 5D3 (it will only be $1400 more).

Who else is buying this at $2k?

I can definitely wait for 6 months at which point Adorama will offer this camera on Ebay for $1500.

Well... I think this camera sounds fine! It isn't too spiffy, and it isn't a PoS either. Now all we have to do is wait for the "shake down" to see what manufacturing problems crop up.

This is on my short list anyway... So many choices, so little money.

Exactly. People need to see this for what it is. And what it is is a modest update and upgrade from the 5DII introduced at several hundred dollars below what the 5DII sold for as recently as a year ago.

Canon also left plenty of room for a 7DII, so this pretty much confirms to me we'll see a spiffy 7DII in 2013. Big decision for me will be which to choose. Just depends on how much they improve the 7DII sensor and how the 6D sensor and autofocus perform.

Frankly Canon has me exactly where they want me. 7D owner looking for a second body: do I go with the 6D or the 7DII. They figure I'll choose one within the next year and then add the other in another year. They are probably right. Damn them.

I think we should withhold judgement until we see IQ and noise control from this 20.2 megapixel sensor. Because in the end, isn't that what really matters?

Let's say it's stellar IQ... as good as the 5D3 (it won't be better, Canon's not going to put their best in a 6D and second best in the 5D3). Then so what? It's a great sensor in a hobbled body for $2k... who's buying it?

The price gap is too large to entice an average consumer up from the Rebel line. And the features are not up to spec for working pros. There is no question that it's an entry level FF... but what are the features (other than the sensor) that make this better than a 60D? And if the only benefit over a 60D is the sensor... then how many customers are going to pay that much more for a FF sensor when the vast majority of Rebel customers don't even know the difference.

Guy walks into Best Buy to buy a Canon DSLR. Salesperson shows him a 60D for $900 and a 6D for $2000. Same body and specs but 6D is FF... what's the customer going to buy? Is the salesperson going to be able to explain the benefits of FF... many of the salespeople probably don't even know themselves.

Sure there are many folks on CR reading this right now salivating that they can get a FF camera for $2k.... but nobody on here is an average consumer... we are all camera enthusiasts reading up daily on how great FF is... so the person this is targeted for is a person that is lusting after FF, is unwilling/unable to pay $3500 for a 5D3, and doesn't need the AF and speed of a 7D. How big is that market?

I disagree on your assessment of this body. While I agree many people are underwhelmed by this offering, let's keep in mind that Canon is still in "catch up mode", trying to deal with how it will respond to the D800. This was likely in the pipeline long before some high MP body was conceived, and I think it fits in to the Canon lineup quite nicely.

That said, I think this body has a place in the toolbox for many working pros. I, for one, would much rather have an affordable full-frame back-up body for events/weddings. Don't get me wrong, the 7D has worked as a solid back-up for me thus far, but it has left a lot to be desired in the realm of low-light situations where AF and noise management are critical.

With the ISOs and (most likely) reduced noise over the crop-sensor of the 60D, this will become a go-to back up for budget conscious pros. I think it will be immensely popular with pros, and enthusiasts who are just looking for a little "more."

bebopcola

The big problem is when the 5DmkII came out nearly four years ago it's specs and price exceeded everyone's imagination.

Now we have cameras for multiple target markets and price points that are coming in below expectations- either overpriced or oddly configured.

People want a revolutionary product for an amazing price. We live in a day and age where companies like Apple set consumer expectations very high and if a company like Canon isn't completely breaking the mold with every release, they need to turn on the PR machine or create a reality distortion field with their launches.

At the very least they need to educate consumers on the refinements that have gone into the products. How many people know what went into the 1Dx? If you glance at a spec sheet, you might miss it – The New Canon 1DX

Well... I think this camera sounds fine! It isn't too spiffy, and it isn't a PoS either. Now all we have to do is wait for the "shake down" to see what manufacturing problems crop up.

This is on my short list anyway... So many choices, so little money.

Exactly. People need to see this for what it is. And what it is is a modest update and upgrade from the 5DII introduced at several hundred dollars below what the 5DII sold for as recently as a year ago.

Canon also left plenty of room for a 7DII, so this pretty much confirms to me we'll see a spiffy 7DII in 2013. Big decision for me will be which to choose. Just depends on how much they improve the 7DII sensor and how the 6D sensor and autofocus perform.

Frankly Canon has me exactly where they want me. 7D owner looking for a second body: do I go with the 6D or the 7DII. They figure I'll choose one within the next year and then add the other in another year. They are probably right. Damn them.

Hehe... fair enough... they already got me and many others on a 7D and a 5D2 so they must be doing something right.

But is this really a modest update for a 5D2... I have my doubts... if no AFMA then definitely not. The AF might be marginally better but not by much... 5D2 AF is fine in decent light and the centre point is ok even in dim light.

And SD cards... I won't say they're no good, speed is better than it used to be... but CF cards are still the better choice for the time being.

I think we should withhold judgement until we see IQ and noise control from this 20.2 megapixel sensor. Because in the end, isn't that what really matters?

yeah but it will be tough to beat the D600 if the D600 is exmor and if it does come close then what the heck were they thinking saving their best tech for the 6D and putting old tech in the king pin 5D3 and 1DX???

What if the 6D was always intended for Photokina (Sep 2012) and the 5D3 was intended for Sep 2011 but due to the earthquake last year, it was put back 6 months?