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The "about" line of my profile stated, in its entirety :"HIV+ with undetectable viral load"

This "about" line just got blanked in my profile after the Grindr "moderation".

Normally, I would think this is just some mistake. But this is the 4th time it has happened, each time with the same content. I tried it repeatedly over the past month to make sure it wasn't a one-off error (or a "clerical" one, as the California DMV once said to me). The first few times it happened, I had not noticed the pop-up because Grindr always starts with pop-up ads that I don't read. But I did notice that my profile had been deleted, so I started looking into why.

I now believe that it is the actual unwritten policy of Grindr not to allow us to openly state our HIV positive status. Ie. there is a ban on stating it.

This is a reprehensible ban that no only furthers the HIV stigma, but also makes Grindr complicit in HIV transmission.

You can also Google Joel Simkhai, the founder and chief executive of Grindr, and see if you can find an email address or further contact information.

Also, is this a result of Apple's notorious censorship? Assuming you have an iOS version, of course. There are many sites dedicated to that very issue.

Have you contacted a local gay rag? If no official is willing to hear you out, then perhaps it would make a compelling article.

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"Many people, especially in the gay community, turn to oral sex as a safer alternative in the age of AIDS. And with HIV rates rising, people need to remember that oral sex is safer sex. It's a reasonable alternative."

That policy would go against their "Year Of Knowing" campaign. We should try an experiment and put exactly what you wrote. For those not wanting a Grindr profile or who don't want to put their status out there, a fake account could be created. That is very odd that they wouldn't want people to be upfront with their status.

I don't have a grndr account so I can't experiment. I'm curious, is Grindr considered a sex site? What is its purpose? I know people meet up using it but maybe they don't consider themselves a hook up site so they are not allowing that info??? Just throwing out ideas

I don't have a grndr account so I can't experiment. I'm curious, is Grindr considered a sex site? What is its purpose? I know people meet up using it but maybe they don't consider themselves a hook up site so they are not allowing that info??? Just throwing out ideas

That policy would go against their "Year Of Knowing" campaign. We should try an experiment and put exactly what you wrote. For those not wanting a Grindr profile or who don't want to put their status out there, a fake account could be created. That is very odd that they wouldn't want people to be upfront with their status.

Thanks. That seems like one of those ads I was talking about actually.

Clearly the people in charge of censoring profiles on Grindr are not the same that approve the sponsors' ads. I will have to devise a new theory about why they have censored me so many times. I just put it in my profile again, let's see what happens.

I don't have a grndr account so I can't experiment. I'm curious, is Grindr considered a sex site? What is its purpose? I know people meet up using it but maybe they don't consider themselves a hook up site so they are not allowing that info??? Just throwing out ideas

Grindr isnt officially a sex site, like say man.hunt or a4a, looking for "friends", "chat", "networking", "dates" are the options, no "hookup" option exists. Pics are heavily censored to stay pg for the most part too. Ive seen people put (-) and (+) next to their profiles plenty times, as well as up and down arrows to get around censoring. I personally like not having my status on view for everyone to see, and only disclosing when it gets necessary, but I respect anyone willing to be upfront with it and think they should have the option. Allowing it might also lead to a lot "neg4neg, clean only, dnd free, no poz, blah blah blah" which in turn allows more discrimination and hurts a lot of self-esteems. I dunno.

I went on Grindr with a blank profile just after I was diagnosed, my profile text said I was positive and looking for advice rom people who've been there. That wasn't censored. Maybe because I was in the UK.

Sarcasm? No, I think its deplorable.... Shame on grindr. I don't know any online cruise sites that would block that. Maybe its an Apple policy with Grindr. There's this dichotomy where Grindr is for degenerate fudgepackers but Apple doesn't want their product used for sex, so all sorts of rules what can be shown and said.

Facefook also occassionally comes up with shameless, deplorable censorship.

Apple and Facebook, they should fuck each other in the arse and get over themselves.... yes the last sentence was sarcastic personification.

« Last Edit: March 21, 2013, 06:50:15 AM by mecch »

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“From each, according to his ability; to each, according to his need” 1875 K Marx

I am not sure what Grindr's motivations are in that censorship. They don't want to admit that they have HIV+ users to their advertisers?

Whatever their reasons, I think it's reprehensible.

I have good reason to believe you've probably hit the nail on its financial head. And yes, it IS reprehensible. It's beyond fucking reprehensible. I don't think there is a word for this type of corporate censorship. It sends me into a rage.

"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

I have good reason to believe you've probably hit the nail on its financial head. And yes, it IS reprehensible. It's beyond fucking reprehensible. I don't think there is a word for this type of corporate censorship. It sends me into a rage.

Don't get me started.

Yes, somebody needs to call them on that.

On the other hand, they are accepting ads from Oraquick, so presumably they are using the knowledge that they have HIV+ users to their financial benefit.

Of course, once we have tested positive, we are no longer potential customers for those tests, so maybe that's why Grindr doesn't want us there anymore ?

That, or they don't want to scare off any of their "neg ub2" deluded crowd by having openly positive men on it ?

Just speculating, but could it be that the HIV with UD VL might be taken as implying you are looking for bareback sex?

I'm reaching here, but until someone contacts GRINDR and gets the story, speculation is all we have.

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"Many people, especially in the gay community, turn to oral sex as a safer alternative in the age of AIDS. And with HIV rates rising, people need to remember that oral sex is safer sex. It's a reasonable alternative."

While Grindr may be guilty of moral failings, I've yet to hear anything that they have done that is illegal. Since you don't pay to use the site, they have no contract with their users and they can make whatever rules they want. If you don't like the rules, then don't use the site.

Also, stop with the their complicit in HIV infections nonsense. Unless they are forcing negative folks to have unsafe sex with pozzies, they aren't doing anything wrong. Righteous indignation aside, it almost sounds like you are pissed off that you can't list your status and have to do the notifications personally. Again, not their problem.

Just speculating, but could it be that the HIV with UD VL might be taken as implying you are looking for bareback sex?

Perhaps somebody is taking that stance, but they would be wrong in my case as it isn't what I am seeking.

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I'm reaching here, but until someone contacts GRINDR and gets the story, speculation is all we have.

I just went to the contact link. The option for "Profile moderation support" only provides a list of guidelines, none of which apply. There is no way to provide feedback to appeal the moderation.

So, I chose the "press inquiries" option" and asked them for an explanation for their repeated censorship. I pointed them to this thread too. And also told them that I would go to the press if I didn't receive a response. Hopefully, that will get their attention.

While Grindr may be guilty of moral failings, I've yet to hear anything that they have done that is illegal. Since you don't pay to use the site, they have no contract with their users and they can make whatever rules they want. If you don't like the rules, then don't use the site.

I didn't state that they did something illegal. I am not a lawyer. Maybe some ambulance chasers could come up with something regarding the American with disability act, or the 1st Amendment, or a combination of both.

No sexually explicit or overly suggestive text. No profanity or curse words, including abbreviations, masking and fill-ins. No text that incites racism, bigotry, hatred or physical harm of any kind. No advertising of services, goods, events, websites or apps. No mention of drugs other than caffeine, tobacco, or alcohol. No sexually explicit references or text that promotes unsafe sex.

I don't see how listing "HIV+ status with undetectable viral load" falls under any of those forbidden categories.

In fact, if you look at the screenshot I posted on the top of this thread, they can't even list the rules I violated. It just states "." ! So, they are making up the rules as they go.

Edit:

Looks like the image link in my original post expired. And I can't edit it anymore.Here is a new one from Photobucket.

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Also, stop with the their complicit in HIV infections nonsense. Unless they are forcing negative folks to have unsafe sex with pozzies, they aren't doing anything wrong.

Just because they aren't "forcing negative folks to have unsafe sex with pozzies" doesn't mean they aren't doing anything wrong. Removing HIV+ status from profiles is still a shitty thing to do, no matter how you look at it. They are deleting information that their customers could use to make safer sex decisions.

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Righteous indignation aside, it almost sounds like you are pissed off that you can't list your status and have to do the notifications personally. Again, not their problem.

Yes, actually I am, as there is never an easy way to ever make those notifications personally. I don't want to get messages from poz phobic people and try to tell them one at a time. Asking them if they read my profile is far easier.

If grindr makes it officially against the rules to disclose your HIV+ status on your profile, then I will indeed stop using grindr. But I would like them to be open about what they are doing.

Could be. They may look at it as being poz and advertising for barebacking. And not necessarily with other poz.

Given all the stories floating around the internet these days about "treatment as prevention"... do I need to fill in the blanks? It's almost like listing "hiv negative" in your profile when you're actually poz.

Please note I said almost like not the same as.

on editOoops, didn't mean to post this yet. I didn't realise there had been other replies .... It's past my bedtime.

a few minutes later...

After reading the other replies, I don't really have anything to add. Well, I did add a little bit but not much.

"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Hi Mad ... didn't you have trouble getting a poz tag for your car , if so then you have the worst luck attempting to disclose of anybody I have ever seen .

Yes, that was me.

I recently sold the car and those poz tags are now in a drawer. I am thinking of framing them.

My new car is a Nissan Leaf EV which is a lease. I would need to get permission from Nissan to see if they would let me put those plates on it, as they are technically the owner of the vehicle. Yet another chance to be discriminated against !

But I won't be making that request. The Leaf has a limited range. Sometimes my bf and I may need to switch cars. And he doesn't want to be driving his family in a car with that has HIV POZ plates, as he is not openly HIV+ like me.

Maybe I'm just overdisclosing. But it really shouldn't have to be this hard. The car tags may be an uncommon place to do it, but not a gay meeting app.

maybe I'm not understanding the full grasp of this, wouldn't be the first time. but if grindr just considers themselves to be a social site and not a "hook up" site then what's the harm? I assume they also don't allow you to state other sexual dynamics such as top, bottom, etc??

bottom line it's a private site. are you really that bothered by this?

I assume they also don't allow you to state other sexual dynamics such as top, bottom, etc??

Hmm... maybe that's the difference. I don't see hiv so much as a sexual dynamic as a health dynamic.

If Grindr wants to pretend they're a social site, why would they forbid users from listing health issues in their profile? Wouldn't a social site be happy to bring people with health issues in common - diabetics, IBS sufferers, hiv you name it - together for mutual support?

Hey, they can't really have it both ways can they? I mean, I suppose they can do what the hell they want to do, but ... sheesh.

We should be encouraging hiv positive people to come out of the closet, not shoving them back inside and slamming the damn door.

"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

maybe I'm not understanding the full grasp of this, wouldn't be the first time. but if grindr just considers themselves to be a social site and not a "hook up" site then what's the harm? I assume they also don't allow you to state other sexual dynamics such as top, bottom, etc??

You assume wrong.

About 1/4 of the profiles have "top/bottom" somewhere either in their headline or in their text. My own headline does and that part was never censored. One that I am just looking at says "3 sum", the other "Azn top" , "TopGun", "Top Asian", "letz play". Oh and let's not forget "generuz dude".

Whatever grindr considers themselves to be, the reality of what it actually is primarily being used for is hookups. Yes, there are some that want other things on it too, but not the majority. Similar to the so-called "romance m4m" section of craigslist.

"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

I didn't state that they did something illegal. I am not a lawyer. Maybe some ambulance chasers could come up with something regarding the American with disability act, or the 1st Amendment, or a combination of both.

I don't see how listing "HIV+ status with undetectable viral load" falls under any of those forbidden categories.

In fact, if you look at the screenshot I posted on the top of this thread, they can't even list the rules I violated. It just states "." ! So, they are making up the rules as they go.

Edit:

Looks like the image link in my original post expired. And I can't edit it anymore.Here is a new one from Photobucket.

Just because they aren't "forcing negative folks to have unsafe sex with pozzies" doesn't mean they aren't doing anything wrong. Removing HIV+ status from profiles is still a shitty thing to do, no matter how you look at it. They are deleting information that their customers could use to make safer sex decisions.

Yes, actually I am, as there is never an easy way to ever make those notifications personally. I don't want to get messages from poz phobic people and try to tell them one at a time. Asking them if they read my profile is far easier.

If grindr makes it officially against the rules to disclose your HIV+ status on your profile, then I will indeed stop using grindr. But I would like them to be open about what they are doing.

You might want to read their Terms of Service, which states that both Grindr and Apple have restrictions on the site and in the event of a dispute, the more restrictive Apple policies apply. It may not be Grindr at all, but Apple that is preventing your disclosure.

You might want to read their Terms of Service, which states that both Grindr and Apple have restrictions on the site and in the event of a dispute, the more restrictive Apple policies apply. It may not be Grindr at all, but Apple that is preventing your disclosure.

Joe

If that's so, then I would want to find that out as well.

Seems fishy though. I can disclose it on my Facebook and that app is still allowed on iOS .

Change your profile to "HIV+ CONDOMS ONLY" and let us know what happens.

I still want to list the undetectable viral load part in it. But I will be glad to add the "condoms only" part.I have a support ticket open with grindr now so I will wait to see what they say.

We are going on a tangent now, and going into the reasons why I want to list, but the reason I don't just list "HIV+" is that doing so mainly attracts positive men that want to bareback, and those aren't the ones I'm seeking.

Listing my undetectable viral load is a way to make my profile look less threatening to people who might be interested, but may be of different serostatus. It isn't an invitation to bareback with them, but rather to make it a reasonable proposition to have sex with a condom. I do think it's especially relevant that my vl is undetectable, as I am a top and I'm not looking to put people at risk. Even if condoms are used, they occasionally do break.

If I listed "HIV+ with 5 million copies viral load", should that be considered a more acceptable profile ?What would anyone possibly think ? That I am looking for bug chasers to give them the gift ?

You just can't win when you go down that slippery slope. I believe more information is better, rather than less. If grindr wants to censor that, I want to make sure they are called up on it.

That is probably the reason. As Ann has pointed out, and as several contentious threads on this very forum have proven, treatment as prevention is replacing condom use. Ironically, the populations who stand to benefit LEAST from TAP are likely to be the ones using it the most.

The responsibility for this idiotic new manner of HIV prevention trades one arena of blind-faith trust for another. Instead of UB2, there will be UDVL as tacit permission to go condom free. And both of those "blind faith" situations make for more HIV infections, along with the rise in treatment-resistant chlamydia that's currently sweeping Europe and starting to infiltrate the US.

Fighting off Treatment-resistant Chlamydia is not a walk in the park for the HIV negative. It's quite possible for it to work wonders on a pozzie's numbers.

The more I think about this issue, the more I tend to side with GRINDR on the issue.

It's not about the HIV status. It's about the wave of TAP in hookups.

You might not be looking for condom-free sex. I submit that people posting an UD VL are more likely than not keeping the door to condom-free sex pretty open.

As most STDs which present inflammation in the urethra have been documented to cause spikes in viral load. Whether those spikes are enough to facilitate transmission in an otherwise UD person is a matter of professional opinion. But using that an UD VL claim (which even if true is only as relevant as the last blood draw) is, while LESS risky than going bareback without any information at all, is still a half-informed thing to do.

Better than a totally uninformed thing to do, granted. But IMHO only a level above Neg UB2.

I am sorry that this circumstance doesn't apply, and if the UD VL is indeed the reason your account was censored, you might have just been caught up in a larger, understandable net.

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"Many people, especially in the gay community, turn to oral sex as a safer alternative in the age of AIDS. And with HIV rates rising, people need to remember that oral sex is safer sex. It's a reasonable alternative."

Instead of UB2, there will be UDVL as tacit permission to go condom free.

Your logic is deeply flawed.

If I was actually seeking condom-free sex, it would be far, far simpler to simply not advertise the HIV status in my profile at all, rather than list it along with my undetectable viral load. Why go through all that trouble, seriously ?

The "neg ub2" group on grindr is much larger than all the other groups. They obviously bareback sometimes. Or haven't you seen the article from huffpost I posted earlier in the thread?

Note that it's what the censorship actually accomplished, it removed mentions of both my status and viral load in my grindr profile.

So now I'm "presumed negative" by other grindr users who never see HIV+ status in other people's profiles, and actually more likely to be solicited for unsafe sex than before, not less.

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You might not be looking for condom-free sex. I submit that people posting an UD VL are more likely than not keeping the door to condom-free sex pretty open.

I don't think you can predict what preference an individual grindr user has - condoms or no condoms - unless they actually state that preference.

You certainly can't predict it from HIV status alone. We can debate all day whether they should or not, but many people in the "neg ub2" crowd are going to bareback with other "neg ub2" people. And many HIV+ people are going to bareback with other HIV+ people.

You are generalizing, somehow, that a subset of those two groups, the "HIV+ UDVL" group, is going to bareback more than the other 2 larger groups. I ask for your evidence. Even as a group, I don't think you will find any evidence that that's the case. But you certainly can't apply that logic to an individual. More health information is good, not bad.

I have never , not even one time been asked for anything but bareback sex on a hookup site and that's listing myself as poz . All the guys who contact me want BB sex .

Its not something I take lightly with std rates as high as they are in this area , this is the primary reason I haven't dated or attempted to hookup in quite awhile but thats not the point here I know .

Here is what they say about what you cannot put in your profile. So, I wonder whether the fact someone says they are poz means (to them) unsafe sex would occur, because you have a sexually transmitted virus? Or, is it the UD part that they think refers to having unsafe sex?

They sell themselves as a dating site, and a way to meet "buddies," who are gay, bisexual or curious. Even if they pretend it is a dating site, many potential dates would want to know your status. Most date looking for sex or relationships. Either for sex or dating, I think most would rather get the poz thing out of the way. If they cannot handle having a poz partner, then they can move on.

And, I wonder whether they would censor someone saying they are a cancer survivor and their cancer is in remission. Just like with HIV, many potential dates would like to have that information, instead of "wasting" their time, if they cannot deal with that.

Profile text

No sexually explicit or overly suggestive text.No profanity or curse words, including abbreviations, masking and fill-ins.No text that incites racism, bigotry, hatred or physical harm of any kind.No advertising of services, goods, events, websites or apps.No mention of drugs other than caffeine, tobacco, or alcohol.No sexually explicit references or text that promotes unsafe sex.

I'm not on Grindr. Have you not seen a single other profile that openly states their seropositive status? You could make a dummy ID and scour through the site and see if there are other positive profiles, and if you can't find a single one then when you email the site bosses you could mention this fact as it would buttress your position.

I'm not on Grindr. Have you not seen a single other profile that openly states their seropositive status? You could make a dummy ID and scour through the site and see if there are other positive profiles, and if you can't find a single one then when you email the site bosses you could mention this fact as it would buttress your position.

Actually no, I can't recall personally seeing another profile that openly states HIV+ status on grindr. Others in this thread said that they have.

I don't think I should have to create a dummy account just to find out. Having my own single profile censored 5 times is quite enough.

Only the text portion of it that listed the "HIV+ with undetectable viral load" got deleted 5 times.

Everything else including my picture, headline ("white top"), my age, height, and weight, was left alone.What more evidence do I need that they don't want me to state this ?How many more times do they have to delete it ?

"Many people, especially in the gay community, turn to oral sex as a safer alternative in the age of AIDS. And with HIV rates rising, people need to remember that oral sex is safer sex. It's a reasonable alternative."

By the way. Free Grindr is a frustrating useless service. Everyone on Grindr in my neck of the Alps uses the paid version. I tried it out for a few months. I am TOO OLD for this service. Its not designed for old. It would be a lot of fun for teens, if it wasn't about sex, and obviously its a compelling and diverting tool for "the young set"..

Logged

“From each, according to his ability; to each, according to his need” 1875 K Marx

Maybe you were lucky and didn't incur the wrath of the moderators somehow.

I want to point out that this is not a programmatic/automated ban. Grindr accepts the "HIV+ with undetectable viral load" text in my profile. It remains there from about a day to a week until it eventually gets deleted. This censorship is presumably something that requires some human interaction on the part of grindr.

By the way. Free Grindr is a frustrating useless service. Everyone on Grindr in my neck of the Alps uses the paid version.

I haven't used the paid version. My understanding is that the main difference is that it's ad-free, and you can see people out of your local area.

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I tried it out for a few months. I am TOO OLD for this service. Its not designed for old. It would be a lot of fun for teens, if it wasn't about sex, and obviously its a compelling and diverting tool for "the young set"..

Yes, I think that is a fair criticism. In my mid 30s, I still see a lot of men in my age group, but there are definitely a lot of 20 somethings.

I don't mean this snarky. You seem to be rather hurt or offended by this, as if you are the victim of some grand injustice. While we may not understand or agree with their reasoning they do have a right to operate their business as they wish as long as they are within the law. Why the hurt feelings? Are there not other apps you can use that would allow you to be more open about your status?

I don't mean this snarky. You seem to be rather hurt or offended by this, as if you are the victim of some grand injustice. While we may not understand or agree with their reasoning they do have a right to operate their business as they wish as long as they are within the law. Why the hurt feelings? Are there not other apps you can use that would allow you to be more open about your status?

Purged my phones of the sex trade when I got all committed and stuff, but sometimes it's nice, in the dark of night, to discover your blue-book value. Or, you know, sometimes not so nice.

Logged

"Many people, especially in the gay community, turn to oral sex as a safer alternative in the age of AIDS. And with HIV rates rising, people need to remember that oral sex is safer sex. It's a reasonable alternative."

You seem to be rather hurt or offended by this, as if you are the victim of some grand injustice. While we may not understand or agree with their reasoning they do have a right to operate their business as they wish as long as they are within the law. Why the hurt feelings? Are there not other apps you can use that would allow you to be more open about your status?

I don't know if I would call it grand injustice, but I definitely think it's wrong. Just as you believe it's their right to operate their business as they wish, it's certainly my right not to let it go until I get an answer.

If it turns out that it's Grindr's official but unwritten policy to prohibit users from advertising HIV status and/or viral load, then I believe it merits publicity, and at the very least needs to be covered in their written policy.

It's clear that you don't personally care about the issue. Am I really the only one who cares ? I submit that others might be interested to know this, and have something to say about it, from the gay press, Act Up, ASOs, health departments, HHS, CDC, FCC, congress, just to name a few off the top of my head. I am giving Grindr time to provide an explanation first, though.

I am well aware that there are other options for me than Grindr which don't have this censorship, some of which I already use. It's worth nothing that Grindr is one of the leading such applications however, and I think that's one reason I find it so egregious.

I care about it. As one of the leading, if not most used, apps/sites for hook-ups and dating, I would think they would encourage people to be out, if they choose to be. And, especially with all the criminalization, it seems even more important. If you have it right there in your profile, it would make it more difficult for someone to claim you are an AIDS monster and were going around hooking up without disclosing. You would at least have some proof you were not hiding your status.

Even if they want to pretend they are a dating site and sex may happen after meeting the parents, I think people should be able to tell whether they have HIV, cancer, or some other illness. It saves the time from having to have that conversation with everyone. Of course, even with it in your profile, it is still a good idea to have that conversation in case they missed it. But, most will see it. If they can't handle that, even for dating, then they can move on.

I will be interested to know why they are deleting it. Do they not want several people with that in their profiles, because it may cause new members to think it is where all the poz people go, and it may scare them away? Do they really believe it promotes an unsafe sex message? Is it the viral load part? It kinda reminds me of clubs only allowing certain people in, who have a certain look. They want to maintain a certain image. I will be interested to know, if they even respond. I kinda doubt they will, but ya never know.