<quoted text>So how are our teachings Pagan?And Jethro, Christmas on Dec 25th replaced the pagan Sun god festive. It didn't join it. Its a victory for Christianity.What Pagan symbols does the CC use?Finally, Sunday is the day the Lord rose from the dead. This day was set aside from very early on, as written by Justin Martyr.

the fish hat worn by the pope,rings,crosses,phalysis used at st. peters basilica,garbs worn by priests all come from paganism,the birth of jesus is not dec. 25th so how can they use a false date? all religious dates are meaningless, the church is suppose to be a place of honesty,love guidance,reassurance,but the opposite is true. lets reverse this what does the church NOT use that is pagan oriented??

<quoted text>No Clay you have been fooled, big time.Your catholic faith is not in the gospel of Jesus its in man made teaching. Of all your past Popes who were evil men.They were not happy just torturing the body, they had to go farther and rape and torture heart, body, mind, and soul.I know I will never convince you of that, but it is the truth.

Instead of relying on 100% propaganda, slander and ignorance to spread your stuff LTM. Why don't you produce some facts to make your point. Bearing false witness is the only way your religion can exist.

<quoted text>Yes, they are far less. No, my source is not biased, it uses statistics from organizations that are not tied to the Catholic Church. Yes, the public school systems are filled with teachers whose abuse goes un-reported.From the link I provided;Per the US Department of Education (biased ?) "nearly 9.6 percent of [public school] students are targets of educator sexual misconduct sometime during their school career.""Hofstra University's Dr. Charol Shakeshaft(biased?), the author of the study, to opine in 2006, "[T]hink the Catholic Church has a problem? The physical sexual abuse of students in schools is likely more than 100 times the abuse by priests."Meanwhile, that same 2004 report cited an important study from the mid-1990s:"In an early [1994] study of 225 cases of educator sexual abuse in New York, all of the accused had admitted to sexual abuse of a student but none of the abusers was reported to authorities."The 1994 study also reported that only 1 percent of those abusive educators lost their license. In addition, most alarmingly, "25 percent received no consequence or were reprimanded informally and off-the-record. Nearly 39 percent chose to leave the district, most with positive recommendations or even retirement packages intact."

I still say that you are full of crap and reading bias reports; but for the moment, let's say that you are right. What does that do for your religion? If it is run by flawed humans and people are held to flawed dogma?

If a priest was found to have abused a child, what happened to him? How many other people knew what was going on? How many people knew that the priest was being transferred because he abuse children?

And if, like you tried to assert, all this happened so long ago, how high up does the cover up go? Did the last two popes know about it? Obviously, they did!

So, you are not one local school system, trying to avoid a law suit, you belong to a world wide cover up.

I remember back in the late 70's hearing about the catholic cover up. That means how many popes knew what was going on?!?

<quoted text>Yup, you spend an inordinate amount of time and effort focused on child sex. I think you need some serious help.

I understand your bitterness in attacking the messenger.

It strikes at the heart of the RCC's claim -- which was the reason for the cover-up in the first place.

In view of what Jesus said about those who harm children...

... how do you defend the notion that Jesus would NOT have banished any Apostle --- if they raped a young child, or had known of the abuse but said nothing -- thus facilitating the continued abuse of a young child who was only a camp follower in order to hear Jesus.

You have no choice but to argue that Jesus would have allowed such behavior among His Apostles.

By their own actions -- Vatican leadership and two vicars say Jesus would have tolerated such behavior.

<quoted text>I still say that you are full of crap and reading bias reports; but for the moment, let's say that you are right. What does that do for your religion? If it is run by flawed humans and people are held to flawed dogma?If a priest was found to have abused a child, what happened to him? How many other people knew what was going on? How many people knew that the priest was being transferred because he abuse children?And if, like you tried to assert, all this happened so long ago, how high up does the cover up go? Did the last two popes know about it? Obviously, they did!So, you are not one local school system, trying to avoid a law suit, you belong to a world wide cover up.I remember back in the late 70's hearing about the catholic cover up. That means how many popes knew what was going on?!?The catholic church is corrupt from the top down.

"full of crap" "biased reports". Ok, give me your reports that say these reports are wrong. Give me your reports showing that ANY pope knew a bishop was covering for a priest while it was happening.

"If it is run by flawed humans and people are held to flawed dogma?"

You're half right. Humans are flawed. The 'dogma' is not because it teaches AGAINST sex abuse. Duh.

"Did the last two popes know about it? Obviously, they did!"

Prove it.

"The catholic church is corrupt from the top down."

Now that's what I call biased. You should be thanking the Catholic Church for Western Civilization.

<quoted text>I still say that you are full of crap and reading bias reports; but for the moment, let's say that you are right. What does that do for your religion? If it is run by flawed humans and people are held to flawed dogma?If a priest was found to have abused a child, what happened to him? How many other people knew what was going on? How many people knew that the priest was being transferred because he abuse children?And if, like you tried to assert, all this happened so long ago, how high up does the cover up go? Did the last two popes know about it? Obviously, they did!So, you are not one local school system, trying to avoid a law suit, you belong to a world wide cover up.I remember back in the late 70's hearing about the catholic cover up. That means how many popes knew what was going on?!?The catholic church is corrupt from the top down.

<quoted text>Why do you insist on the, "Everyone else was doing it.", defense?If you really believe in a god and judgment day, I suggest that you don't try that bs defense.

There's no "everyone else is doing it" defense here. We've said all along that the guilty sicko priests should go to prison along with the bishops who purposely covered up. Make no mistake, the perp priests will get theirs in the end if they didn't repent.

<quoted text>I understand your bitterness in attacking the messenger.It strikes at the heart of the RCC's claim -- which was the reason for the cover-up in the first place.In view of what Jesus said about those who harm children...... how do you defend the notion that Jesus would NOT have banished any Apostle --- if they raped a young child, or had known of the abuse but said nothing -- thus facilitating the continued abuse of a young child who was only a camp follower in order to hear Jesus.You have no choice but to argue that Jesus would have allowed such behavior among His Apostles.By their own actions -- Vatican leadership and two vicars say Jesus would have tolerated such behavior.And you call me names for pointing this out! Thank you :o)

I'm not calling you any names, I just concerned about those around you based on your obvious obssession with child sex.

I suggest you read the bible, or Jefferson's abridged version anyway, and see how Jesus dealt with sinners. That would be a good start.

No sir, your honor. I do not believe that you should give me jail time!Why not?Cause black men have done it. Cause Chinese men have done it. Cause Canadian men have done it. Cause African men have done it. Cause Indian men have done it. Cause Australian men have done it...Oh, OK. You're free to go.

A good post that speaks directly to the title of this board.

"Waaaaaa, everybody else does it." Catholics here say their god has no higher standards for his "bride."

<quoted text>There's no "everyone else is doing it" defense here. We've said all along that the guilty sicko priests should go to prison along with the bishops who purposely covered up. Make no mistake, the perp priests will get theirs in the end if they didn't repent.But thanks for your advice, I'll be sure not to try it.

<quoted text>That is right jethro I agree.Man has crawled into a box of religion, and now they are trapped there.Instead of sticking to the gospel that Jesus preached, they have created a tradition of man made religious doctrine. It has nothing to do with Christ, Jethro .The catholic faith has built a man made institution, built on the teachings of corrupted greedy blood thirst men.If I agreed with the catholic doctrine, I would be saying to people it is ok if they robbed, tortured, and murdered millions of people, its ok if the priest and nuns raped and beat little children, its ok if the POPE lied about it.How anyone can sit in such a vile evil place and call it the only true church of Christ is mind boggling.

you can't blame the followers of the church LT,after all they had no idea what was going on,everything is done behind closed doors,they got away with a lot of things but now thanks you courageous people who have stepped forward and spoke out against the church,the truth is coming to light,it's far more sinister than we knew of,and yes i don't understand how people with or wothout children can attend a church that has committed thw worst sin possible can sit there and listen to the lies coming out of the mouths of priests.i'm just very very glad i was not indoctrinated into the church of evil doings. my mother was a smart woman and did not fall for the trappings of organized religion,she relied on her bible for truth and comfort,we were never forced to believe in any group at all,just the bible.

<quoted text>I'm not calling you any names, I just concerned about those around you based on your obvious obssession with child sex.I suggest you read the bible, or Jefferson's abridged version anyway, and see how Jesus dealt with sinners. That would be a good start.

Here's a good start on Morals 101....

#1: Facilitating child abuse is immoral, even if not technically illegal.

No matter what you say, I will continue to say Jesus would NOT allow a child-abuser or child-abuse facilitator to remain as an Apostle.

If you are a Lutheran, your religion was founded by Martin Luther, an ex-monk of the Catholic Church, in the year 1517.If you belong to the Church of England, your religion was founded by King Henry VIII in the year 1534 because the Pope would not grant him a divorce with the right to remarry.If you are a Presbyterian, your religion was founded by John Knox in Scotland in the year 1560.If you are a Protestant Episcopalian, your religion was an offshoot of the Church of England founded by Samuel Seabury in the American colonies in the 17th century.If you are a Congregationalist, your religion was originated by Robert Brown in Holland in 1582.If you are a Methodist, your religion was launched by John and Charles Wesley in England in 1744.If you are a Unitarian, Theophilus Lindley founded your church in London in 1774.If you are a Mormon (Latter Day Saints), Joseph Smith started your religion in Palmyra, N.Y., in 1829.If you are a Baptist, you owe the tenets of your religion to John Smyth, who launched it in Amsterdam in 1605.If you are of the Dutch Reformed church, you recognize Michaelis Jones as founder, because he originated your religion in New York in 1628.If you are a member of the Churches of Christ your church began near the beginning of the 19th century in New England. Abner Jones, Barton Stone and Alexander Campbell were some of the most well known originators of your religion.If you worship with the Salvation Army, your sect began with William Booth in London in 1865.If you are a Christian Scientist, you look to 1879 as the year in which your religion was born and to Mrs. Mary Baker Eddy as its founder.If you belong to one of the religious organizations known as "Church of the Nazarene," "Pentecostal Gospel," "Holiness Church," "Pilgrim Holiness Church," "Jehovah's Witnesses," your religion is one of the hundreds of new sects founded by men within the past century.If you are a Seventh Day Adventist, Mrs. Ellen Gould White inaugurated your group in 1860.If you are a believer at the Vineyard Chrstian Fellowship, your denomination was started by Ken Guillickson and Keith Green in Santa Monica, California in 1974.If you are a member of Calvary Chapel, Chuck Smith began your congregation in Costa Mesa, California in 1975.If you are Catholic, you know that your church was founded in the year 33 by Jesus Christ the Son of God, and it is still the same Church.http://www.fatherpeffley.org/docs/HowOld.pdf

If you are Catholic, you know that your church was founded in the year 33 by Jesus Christ the Son of God, and it is still the same Church.JETHRO:this like the other churches is a lie,show me where jesus states he is catholic and started the catholic church? for that matter any of the other churches you mentioned? again i ask the question why would he build his church in a country he has never been to, and enslaved his people,beat and tortured them? stole the scriptures from them, does that make sense to you?? if anything he should be destroying the church and restoring the scriptures to their rightful owners "everyone". the catholic church being the true church is as funny as a new york farmer starting the true church.

<quoted text>the fish hat worn by the pope,rings,crosses,phalysis used at st. peters basilica,garbs worn by priests all come from paganism,the birth of jesus is not dec. 25th so how can they use a false date? all religious dates are meaningless, the church is suppose to be a place of honesty,love guidance,reassurance,but the opposite is true. lets reverse this what does the church NOT use that is pagan oriented??

Some people throw the Paganism accusation at the Church out of paranoia. Others throw it out of ignorance. Ironically , they do it while wearing a wedding ring (wedding rings are of Pagan origin)The fact is: Catholics worship The One True God of Abraham and Jesus Christ - savior of the world. It really don't matter what we are wearing. God is not particularly picky about fashion.

Our Priests wear robes during the Mass. Do you also have a problem with Jewish Rabbis who wear similar attire?

<quoted text>Here's a good start on Morals 101....#1: Facilitating child abuse is immoral, even if not technically illegal.No matter what you say, I will continue to say Jesus would NOT allow a child-abuser or child-abuse facilitator to remain as an Apostle.Your church says differently (see Cardinal Law).I am glad you call me sick for disagreeing with your church. I am honored. Thank you.

Jesus built His Church on a guy who denied Him. Jesus knows we will all sin, what's important is whether we repent.

<quoted text>If you are Catholic, you know that your church was founded in the year 33 by Jesus Christ the Son of God, and it is still the same Church.JETHRO:this like the other churches is a lie,show me where jesus states he is catholic and started the catholic church? for that matter any of the other churches you mentioned? again i ask the question why would he build his church in a country he has never been to, and enslaved his people,beat and tortured them? stole the scriptures from them, does that make sense to you?? if anything he should be destroying the church and restoring the scriptures to their rightful owners "everyone". the catholic church being the true church is as funny as a new york farmer starting the true church.

About 70 yrs after Christ died, Christians began calling themselves Catholic. Rome quickly became the headquarters. These are facts Jethro.

If the Catholic Church is not the one started by Christ and not the true Church, then who is? Why?If you say its Confrints Pentecostal community, I'm going to spit my beer over the floor.

<quoted text>Only Satan would still count people as members - who haven't been to Satan's RCC church in over 40 years.If one does NOT want to be formerly counted, one must file a form and pay Satan money.http://www.examiner.com/article/website-aids-...I don't want to be counted, but I also refuse to pay money to an organization which enables child abuse at orphanages.".... created his website partly because of anger about the way the church covered-up or downplayed sexual abuse occurring in Catholic orphanages, boarding schools and seminaries."The Catholic Satan worshipers here don't care about deeds, they only care about words -- exactly the opposite of what Jesus preached.They say it's all the media's fault. In a sense it is.Because for over 1500 years before the mass media, children had no recourse, except to be quietly raped and abused by RCC Priests.

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