English in a wrong teaching advertisement for students

Hi guys! Let me ask you why many ignorant Native English speakers say "pin" like "pen", "Barry" like "berry", and a known teacher of English called Justiliani, shows how to say "cot" and "cut" alike and cat as (keh-aht) in an unusual way. In fact, he's the one that still doesn't speak English correctly as a Native speaker of it, so I'd rather think he's just trying to earn a lot of money from his own English pronunciation course.

I would like teahers that walk with the students and do not run because of extra job time is over.

M56 Wed Jun 06, 2007 6:57 am GMT

<In fact, he's the one that still doesn't speak English correctly as a Native speaker...>

Should all native English speakers speak in the same way, then?

Shatnerian Wed Jun 06, 2007 8:43 am GMT

I don't think it's fair to label these differences as "ignorant", as dialects vary from region to region. Proper English should be more about sentence structure and intonation rather than the difference in vowel sounds in certain dialects.

As I have said on this forum before, "General American" for example is very vague, and people will always battle about what it does and does not contain. To my ears, most speakers of what is called "General American" have a distinct accent, mainly due to some of their fronted vowel sounds and the AR sound in words such as "tomorrow" and "sorrow".

Guest Wed Jun 06, 2007 8:48 am GMT

<<To my ears, most speakers of what is called "General American" have a distinct accent, mainly due to some of their fronted vowel sounds and the AR sound in words such as "tomorrow" and "sorrow". >>

Ok distinct but not as much as between a bikini and a female underwear.

That distinction is only true for British accents.

Guest Wed Jun 06, 2007 6:31 pm GMT

''Hi guys! Let me ask you why many ignorant Native English speakers say "pin" like "pen", "Barry" like "berry", and a known teacher of English called Justiliani, shows how to say "cot" and "cut" alike and cat as (keh-aht) in an unusual way.''

Well, they must be from Chicago

Rizzeck Wed Jun 06, 2007 8:13 pm GMT

WTF are you talking about? Barry and berry sound exactly the same--even then a distinction would be trivial. As for cat, wtf? Do you have any clue as to what you are talking about? Probably not. If you're English, we don't want your snobbery. Stay home on that inconsequential little rock of yours called Britain.

Travis Wed Jun 06, 2007 10:03 pm GMT

>>WTF are you talking about? Barry and berry sound exactly the same--even then a distinction would be trivial. As for cat, wtf? Do you have any clue as to what you are talking about? Probably not. If you're English, we don't want your snobbery. Stay home on that inconsequential little rock of yours called Britain.<<

Mind you that "Barry" and "berry" do not sound the same in all English dialects. Also note that the thing with "cat" is almost certainly due to the Northern Cities Vowel Shift, one of whose effects is the breaking of historical /{/ (as in "cat") into a diphthong between a higher front position and a central position and a lower front position.

It is just that this "Info" person has a very, very narrow view of now native speakers "correctly" speak, and thus views many very common differences in actual speech by native English-speakers as "ignorant". It is just plain old extreme prescriptivism, and they do not even attempt to at least justify such beyond making arbitrary statements.

Rizzeck Wed Jun 06, 2007 11:13 pm GMT

I'm sorry, but I'm too undereducated to feign any understanding of vowel shifts, diphtongs, and what have you. The only difference btw Barry and Berry, in my eyes, is that berry is spoken more rapidly and...honestly this is trivial. I enjoy ignorance--just don't tell me I'm stupid. Ha!

furrykef Thu Jun 07, 2007 1:46 pm GMT

Not to be rude, but... is it just me, or is the thread's title meaningless?

ITSME Thu Jun 07, 2007 8:04 pm GMT

A fact is that Americans don't like a good pronunciation instead of Americanism or regionalism. They always want immigrants to speak the same way, not a Brits.

Americans say "twenny"? Why do they correct me "twenty" when I don't omit the t before y? The wrong is to say "debt" instead of "det" and so on.

Josh Lalonde Thu Jun 07, 2007 8:19 pm GMT

<<Americans say "twenny"? Why do they correct me "twenty" when I don't omit the t before y? The wrong is to say "debt" instead of "det" and so on.>>

I'm not sure I understand you completely, but if you mean that you pronounce 'debt' with a /b/, that's a mistake in any variety, British or American.

Travis Thu Jun 07, 2007 8:28 pm GMT

>>A fact is that Americans don't like a good pronunciation instead of Americanism or regionalism. They always want immigrants to speak the same way, not a Brits.<<

For starters, what exactly do you mean by "good pronunciation" here? Obviously you mean something other than North American English, considering that you are criticizing quite established NAE pronunciations such as that of "twenty". Just why do you think that (I presume) English English is better, anyways? I also find it funny that you also call North American English "regional", as if English English isn't - even though a supermajority of native English-speakers today speak NAE and NAE is spoken over a large portion of an entire continent (as opposed to being limited to a comparatively far smaller island). And just what do you mean by "Americanism", anyways, considering that the English in the US and Canada varies quite little in practice overall, rather than such varieties being particular to the US?

>>Americans say "twenny"? Why do they correct me "twenty" when I don't omit the t before y?<<

That's because that's how most North Americans pronounce "twenty" (with some slight variations, such as some people having [E] and some having [V] and some people having [n] and some having [4~]), and consequently that is how they think "twenty" is pronounced in general. To them, it's not that they pronounce it wrong, but rather that their pronunciation *is* the "right" one. And mind you, for starters, that most North Americans do not come into contact with non-NAE dialects much, so do not expect them to know how such is pronounced outside of North America.

>>The wrong is to say "debt" instead of "det" and so on.<<

I have never heard of someone ever pronouncing [b] or [p] in "debt" *ever* - and yes, that includes NAE-speakers.

guest Sat Jun 09, 2007 5:55 am GMT

i just had to add a comment. i am an amerian from the "deep south". we are, of course, much stereotyped for the way we speak. but to me barry and berry are not alike anymore than water and waiter. or father and feather.

the a in barry to me is like to a in cat and bat and hat. the e in berry is like the e in bed and ea in head. there is a big difference and would not be mistaken unless perhaps on the phone.

Info Mon Jun 11, 2007 5:40 am GMT

I understand that the American English is the best regional dialect or continental dialect of English spoken in the United States of "the Americas" for sure to Americans mainly. When I said that they don't pronounce some words as they should, I didn't mean to change their whole accent and dialect. In fact, I decided to explain the best way to pronounce without such weird differences but for them these are correct, the wrong are the correct because of no contact across a large bridge connected between son and mother.

This problem is similar between Hispanic Americans and Spaniards but too much shorter. I wouldn't explain what to waste my time. This opinion is about the English confusion for learners as you or me.

It's requested to speak as an American to be almost always understood in America while in Spanish countries they underestand eachother even with tiny different accents because these people don't change most pronunciation but do meanings sometimes as regionalism in each country.

Info Mon Jun 11, 2007 7:34 am GMT

Instead of helping me criticise American accent errors, you guys want to approve all this of Americans as an appropriate pronunciation. That's why once again said that I think you ignore American Pronunciation against English (Received) Pronunciation. It's stupid to call the real one as "received one" instead of being "the original". They're like racist if they were who gave that title.

Unfortunately you know that I must be agreed with either language if better called so because of this weird linguistic science about the English.

Some guys of you love the ignorance while others prefer most things explained. So I don't think I have to go back to the British Isles because I'm not from there. Besides I'm almost becoming an American citizen, not an anti-American. My opinion isn't wished to be misinterpreted about against either accent but to help speak better in either one.

Obtain (@b-tayn') is b as a sound but doubt or debt the b is silent because of tradition to omit it. Well, I didn't say someboy has ever said the b in doubt or debt as p in receipt as in except. Wot a dummy who said that to me!