I am not sure if I should be posting in this forum whatever it will be moved if its not (not sure which X-Men board I can get the best answer on)..not trying to cause trouble I just ACTUALLY want to know..

WHY does everyone LAMBASTE and beat the **** out of "X-Men: 3"?!?

I watched it again it is awesome! Beast, Colossus, Juggernaut, Magneto, Wolverine, Mystique, Storm, Ice Man ALLLLL of these awesome characters BRING IT in this movie!!

The action scenes are phenomenal and exciting and there is a cool story, the pacing is great, there are funny moments, it doesn't drag the characters seemed to be connected and not totally different from the previous 2 films directed by Bryan Singer. Ok so maybe I dunno what..people have a personal vendetta with Ratner? Maybe they dislike the guy. I don't know him myself, and I happen to really enjoy all his other movies. They are fun and I get enjoyment out of them. So granted Archangel could have been utilized more but....REALLY what is the deal?

I am not trying to push my opinion down anyones throat so if you really didnt like the movie lol that's cool too.

I just really felt it was awesome and a childhood dream to see Beats, Colossus, Juggs, and everyone else on screen...AND just kicking ass left right and center.

To be honest the total amount of reasons I disliked it would be too hard to list, as there were so many, but in general I just thought it was a poor story which poorly utilised its characters.

Cylops, Rogue, Angel, Colossus and Mystique were all wasted, Xavier, Jean/The Pheonix, Juggernaut and Pyro all had hardly anything to do as well. I just also felt the characters were just totally different from the previous movies and not in a good way. I dont want to see Wolverine as the straight guy, he is an anti-hero, a loveable loner, not a leader, that should have been Cyclops' job. I thought X3 just sucked all emotion out of the characters as well, the amount of people who died in the movie, and I didnt care one bit, yet at the end of X2 I was close to tears despite knowing Jean was coming back.

I didnt mind Ratner before X3, so there was no grudge there, but him making the movie 99 mins long because he has a short attention span was amazingly idiotic. I also didnt find the action sequences 'amazing' either, possibly because I didnt care about the characters involved in them because they had changed from the previous movies so much. I could go on, but I think you get the reasons I hated it.

As disappointed as I was in the way they treated the Dark Phoenix as a character I have to say that this movie is not the worst that I've seen. I do have to say I loved Kelsey Grammer as Beast, who is one of my favorite X-Men characters behind Wolverine.

__________________“Ultimately, we have a cultural problem where we put a huge currency on sexualizing young girls,” she says. “It’s been a problem for a while, but I feel like it’s reached a fever pitch.” - Rashida Jones on Internet Pornography

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I personally loved it. I did feel it did need 20 more minutes or so with some more screentime for Cyke and maybe Colossus.
But the music score, pacing, action scenes, effects, storyline, acting were all top notch.
The Jean Grey house battle was awesome.
Kelsey Grammar as Beast was fantastic.
Iceman icing up looked surprisingly great!
Magneto and the convoy scene was amazing.
The end scene with Jean and Logan was emotionally well done.
Beast's scene with Leech, Magneto's scene in the hall....I could go on and on....

They killed cyclops off like he was an unimportant side character, to make way for a plot that made Wolverine look like Jean Grey's one true love.

The first two movies put Wolverine on a pedastal and Cyclops in the dirt as well (they even had him shorter so Wolverine would look more intimidating next to him) but I guess everything came to a high point in terms of my anger, during the third film.

Cyclops is my favourite of the X-Men. I just couldn't get past his death as this minor incident that was barely even grieved.

The whole series just pisses me off to be honest. Don't even get me started on Rogue's characterisation!

I think it's just Ratner hate, the reasons these complainers list for hating it are just flat out ridiculous.

Phoenix killing Scott,....

..It makes perfect sense, he was Jean Grey's lover and the Phoenix would want to eliminate any and all connections or emotional anchors who might be able to reach Jean and bring her back in control.

Phoenix killing Xavier,...

...same thing, Phoenix knows he's the one who imprisoned her before so naturally she would want to prevent that from happening again. She's sitting there and her jailer comes rolling into the room what the hell is she supposed to do?..I guess she's supposed to do battle with Xavier and then stop short of killing him and then spout some corny dialogue like "I'll spare your life this time old man but don't cross my path again or I will destroy you", no,... she would eliminate him with extreme prejudice to insure her continued existence and that's what she did.

As far as Wolverine being the lead character in the film and other characters being placed on the back burner, that's been like that since the very beginning so don't blame X-3 or Ratner for that.

Mystique being depowered showed a loyal and noble sacrifice to protect Magneto from harm, she has been Magneto's right hand person from the very beginning and I thought it was well within character for her to protect him and it was not some blasphemous writing defeciency like the complainers make it out to be. I mean really who do people think should have jumped in front of that cure dart?....Pyro?

Same thing for Rogue, she's been belly aching, whining and crying about her powers from the very beginning and yes I would expect that she would be the FIRST one in line for the cure, nothing was out of place for her to voluntarily be cured.

If that movie was the same way but had Bryan Singers name on it the venom being spit at it would not exist. People just have a distaste for Brett Ratner and they take their distaste for him out on that movie.

People just have a distaste for Brett Ratner and they take their distaste for him out on that movie.

Nope. I don't even remember his name, why would I hate him personally then? It's not like he poisoned my dog or something.
I hate not the fact that Cyclops was killed, but the WAY he was killed and the effect it had on other characters (it hadn't). I mean like:
- It was a good fight. By the way, where is Cyclops?
- Who's Cyclops?
And why the hell was Angel in this film? What had he to do with ANYTHING?

I hate not the fact that Cyclops was killed, but the WAY he was killed and the effect it had on other characters (it hadn't). I mean like:
- It was a good fight. By the way, where is Cyclops?
- Who's Cyclops?

Man you're exaggerating, it didn't happen like that at all. Right there in the recovery room Logan pulled out Scott's glasses and asked Jean what happened to Scott. That then triggered Phoenix's regression and Jean started to come back, Phoenix then regained control and attacked Logan. It wasn't until that scene where Logan even suspected that Scott was dead, up until that point he was just missing. So what you're saying is that after that recovery room scene they should have immediately cut to people sobbing and a funeral scene for Scott?, no...Phoenix was the priority and by that point Xavier was dead and then was the time for mourning.

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Originally Posted by WhiteScorpio

And why the hell was Angel in this film? What had he to do with ANYTHING?

Great day man he was the son of the man who invented THE MUTANT CURE, Warren was a mutant, he was written in to establish a link between a father and son who were on opposite sides of a war. Warren wasn't there to put on a uniform and battle Magneto, he was there to show the need to find acceptance for what he was because his father did not. He was there to show how the mutant war affects families similar to how a boy who is gay may not find acceptance at home with his family or meet the approval of his mother or father because he is perceived to be "different" or "not normal".

I'm not trying to convince anyone to like the movie because obviously everyone has there own perception of what's good and what's bad, however I really do believe that the majority of the people who trash that movie are just in love with Bryan Singer and just wanted him to do it instead of Brett Ratner.

So what you're saying is that after that recovery room scene they should have immediately cut to people sobbing and a funeral scene for Scott?, no...Phoenix was the priority and by that point Xavier was dead and then was the time for mourning.

What I'm saying is that every death of a notable character should have some impact on the other characters and overall plot. Deaths of so many characters had no meaning at all. So why kill them? It's not like it's some minor characters that no one would regret about. Come on, we all pained together with Scott when Jean sacrificed herself at the end of second movie. Nothing like that in the third.

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Great day ... or "not normal".

Yeah, I understand what they WANTED to say with adding this character. But it just doesn't work for me and for many other people. Why not? Because he is not connected to anything really. He is a loose thread. Like you know, carburetor is a very useful thing in a car, but it only works if it is installed into the car system together with engine and other things. Carburetor doesn't work if it lies in the trunk of your car.
Likewise, all the other threads were not really interwoven. There is nothing connecting Jean with the new cure, for example. During the siege she just stood there doing nothing.
You may call it all a good movie. I call it bad writing.

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are just in love with Bryan Singer

Not true also. As much as I loved first two X-Men movies, I hated Superman Returns. It was awful, Singer or not.

I hear you guys but to me X3 kind of had loop holes and several missed opportunities.

A 3rd film should always go back to the 1st film, something that was missed or possibly shadowed the events for the 3rd film. I feel like w/Phoenix character nothing was fully explored. This could've been the perfect time to explain the Anne story and how Jean's powers developed thus leading to the Phoenix persona, usually Multiple Personality Disorders comes from a traumatic event. Also they could've explained that when Jean used Cerebro or Magneto's machine is slowly released the barriers Xavier placed. The whole point of Phoenix is that she's an unstable creature and for majority of the film she just stood there silent, what's her motive? what does she want to do after being "imprisoned?" Why does she care to join Magneto and his war? To many loop holes for her character

Scott's death was underplayed and not neeeded. They could've recasted his role and made him more relevant to the Jean's arc.

Xavier's p.o.v of the cure would've been nice before he "died."

For Beast to be a former student it seemed like the only person he knew was Storm, there was no connection w/Jean or Scott nor w/anyone else of the team. I always thought that scene w/Rogue when she leaves for the cure would've been great if they replaced Logan w/Hank. He could've explained to Rogue how he can sympathize w/her and when he accepted who he is. To me Beast's character was underdevelop.

Far as Rogue & Colossus is concerned I think the writer's didn't know what to do them in terms of action or character. A Colossus vs Juggernaut fight would've been epic & Rogue should not gotten cured! It sends the wrong message to ppl but honestly I think they removed her from the final battle because they didn't know what to do w/her.

The Omega's should've been called the Morlocks and how they just went along w/Magneto was just like ok "follow the leader!" We could've seen the contrast between Xavier's school and how they live, in shadows underneath society. Magneto could've promised them that after his "war" they can live on top and rule by his side(which is a lie) and also Leech should've have been a Morlock who was missing, & Mags promised to bring him back but eventually he wanted him dead after he found out he's the cure.

Great day man he was the son of the man who invented THE MUTANT CURE, Warren was a mutant, he was written in to establish a link between a father and son who were on opposite sides of a war. Warren wasn't there to put on a uniform and battle Magneto, he was there to show the need to find acceptance for what he was because his father did not. He was there to show how the mutant war affects families similar to how a boy who is gay may not find acceptance at home with his family or meet the approval of his mother or father because he is perceived to be "different" or "not normal".

I'm not trying to convince anyone to like the movie because obviously everyone has there own perception of what's good and what's bad, however I really do believe that the majority of the people who trash that movie are just in love with Bryan Singer and just wanted him to do it instead of Brett Ratner.

T-CLIPSE plot devices aren't ways to make a story better. The same thing was done more ironically and less in your face and with more respect in X2 with Bobby Drake/Iceman's family so why do it again anyway? And therein lays the inherent problem with X3 it just copy past things of the other movies while leaving the heart and soul of what Bryan Singer Co. established. Not to mention they discard things that were clearly defined in the previous movies (ie: Where the **** is Phoenix's fire effect?).

Killing Cyclops off would have been fine if he had a much bigger and more important role. Instead we get to his death quickly he is discarded as others have said. It wasn't that his death wasn't a main priority it wasn't one at all to people. In fact eff that I think Cyclops should have had at least equal screen time to Logan in X3 otherwise the ruse that we where getting a Phoenix story (which have always had Cyke as the main character) was a sham to begin with.

Rogue was agian a plot device to have someone use the cure. Its not the fact that she wanted the cure that was bad it's the fact that she took it. The same storyline was shown in the 90's cartoon and it showed Rogue finding exceptants within herself without need for the cure rather than just taking it to be like everyone else.

There is so much wrong with this film that I don't want to go into anymore detail but some other notible things people may be mift about.

Where's Nightcrawler? He and Storm had a deep emotional bond in the last film and what? Is he back in the Circus? Did he become a preist? Did he go on vacation?

Does Colossus speak? They increase his role in screentime only which looses it's weight.

Storm and Jean where set up to be friends in the first movies and it appears that after she becomes Phoenix she doesn't give a hoot anymore. Huh?

Storm seemed to look and act like a ***** for no reason.

The cure itself seems to be made into something hokey by the end of the film. Putting it in guns?

Everyone kind of screams a lot to the camera.

Wolverine cries more than anyone in the film.

When Phoenix kills she turns people to ash?

Wow I litterally could keep going...

Anyway, I don't dislike Brett. I don't really think he is a praticullarly good director for dramas but I do think with comedies he's pretty decent.

What is your definition of "so many characters"....two? Scott and Xavier? I already gave the meaning of their deaths in my first post.

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Originally Posted by WhiteScorpio

It's not like it's some minor characters that no one would regret about. Come on, we all pained together with Scott when Jean sacrificed herself at the end of second movie. Nothing like that in the third.

There was funeral scene for Xavier to express loss, and even Magneto himself expressed regret about Xaviers death while defending him against Pyro's comments.

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Originally Posted by WhiteScorpio

Yeah, I understand what they WANTED to say with adding this character. But it just doesn't work for me and for many other people. Why not? Because he is not connected to anything really. He is a loose thread.

He was connected to the man who invented the mutant cure, I won't continue to argue this point with you, I've already stated what his purpose was to the movie. People who wanted a Warren Worthington III billionaire playboy living in a penthouse are just people who are comic book loyalist who feel insulted because the story broke comic book cannon for the sake of motion picture creative license.

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Originally Posted by WhiteScorpio

There is nothing connecting Jean with the new cure, for example.

Nor was she intended to be connected to the cure. Why in the world would The Phoenix be connected to a cure for mutants?

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Originally Posted by WhiteScorpio

You may call it all a good movie. I call it bad writing.

Yeah I do like the movie and think that it's criticized way too harshly because of the death of two beloved characters whose deaths in my opinion raised the stakes of what is constantly being referred to as a war, PEOPLE DIE DURING WAR, ...and X-3 showed that everything doesn't just end all hunky dory and that everybody just walks away during a time of war.

What is your definition of "so many characters"....two? Scott and Xavier? I already gave the meaning of their deaths in my first post.

Well, Magneto and Rogue and Mystique also kinda "died". Kinda.

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There was funeral scene for Xavier to express loss, and even Magneto himself expressed regret about Xaviers death while defending him against Pyro's comments.

But his death wasn't needed for the plot. At all.

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He was connected to the man who invented the mutant cure

But he's not connected with the plot. Throw him away, what changes? Nothing. Nothing at all.

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Why in the world would The Phoenix be connected to a cure for mutants?

Because you need to connect all your plotlines together. If you do not, you will receive a bad plot. There always should be a reason in adding something in your movie. Having two (or more) unconnected plotlines ruins the whole movie.

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whose deaths in my opinion raised the stakes of what is constantly being referred to as a war, PEOPLE DIE DURING WAR

It just doesn't work for me. And for many other people. It's not a matter of you killing or not killing people (mutants), it's a matter of HOW you do it. In this movie it was done awfully. In my humble opinion.

..It makes perfect sense, he was Jean Grey's lover and the Phoenix would want to eliminate any and all connections or emotional anchors who might be able to reach Jean and bring her back in control.

Of course it makes sense that she would WANT to.

But why would you write a movie in which the villain succeeds in killing the leader of the X-Men? And then have NO ONE react to it... Have nothing come of it whatsoever?

__________________

Superman: "I can only tell you what I believe, Diana. humankind has to be allowed to climb to its own destiny. We can't carry them there."Flash: "But that's what she's saying. What's the point? Why should they need us at all?"Superman: "To catch them if they fall."

I wouldn't hate the movie so much if I didn't know how poorly the production came together. I'd write it off as a mediocre, disappointing end to a promising franchise. But, Fox had the opportunity to have something special and ruined it out of sheer spite.

Bryan Singer offered to come back to the franchise after Superman Returns. Instead, Fox fired him and replaced him immediately. They rushed the X3 to production, even though there was no finished script. They hired Matthew Vaughn to direct, then fired him when he suggested they take more time to get the story right.

The reason Cyclops was killed was because he agreed to act in Superman Returns. Rather than delay X-Men for him, or schedule his days around Superman, they wrote him off. End of story.

Then, they hired Brett Ratner because he's a hitman of a director. He honestly did an admirable job given the circumstance, but Fox could have done so much better if they hadn't been so petty with getting revenge on Singer, and using X-Men 3 to compete with Superman.

__________________
The Montreal crew called it simonizing. Any non-sensical things that showed up in the script where their scriptwriter was simonizing had to be cleaned up and/or corrected either on shooting day or during the editing stage.

I personally don't hate X3, I just find it underwhelming. Manic X's post actually touches on most of the stuff I do and don't like about it. It has some really great parts, some really bad parts and really meh parts. The movie as a whole just doesn't do much for me.