(Testimony of Thomas J. Kelley)

edge of the right jump seat, that is to say from the right edge of the right jump seat to the door on the right side?

Mr. Kelley.

There is 6 inches of clearance between the jump seat and the door.

Mr. Specter.

And what is the relative position of the jump seat to the rear seat on the Presidential automobile?

Mr. Kelley.

There is 8 1/2 inches between the back of the jump seat and the front of the back seat of the President's car, the rear seat.

Mr. Specter.

And what is the relative height of the jump seat and the rear seat?

Mr. Kelley.

The jump seat is 3 inches lower than the back seat in its bottom position. That is, the back seat of the President's car had a mechanism which would raise it 10 1/2 inches. But at the time of the assassination, the seat was in its lowest position.

Mr. Specter.

And what is the differential between the jump seats and the rear seat on the Secret Service followup car?

Mr. Kelley.

The jump seat of the Secret Service car is a little closer to the right door.
However, the seating arrangement is not exactly the same in these cars, in that there is a portion of a padding that comes around on the rear seat.
But relatively, when two persons are seated in this car, one in the rear seat and one in the jump seat, they are in the same alinement as they were in the President's car.

Mr. Dulles.

Could I ask one question in response to your statement that the back seat was in its lowest position at the time of the assassination? How do you know that?

Mr. Kelley.

That is a result of questioning of the people who took the car, the driver who took the car from the hospital to the plane. This was one of the drivers of the Presidential car. There was nobody who touched the car until it got back to the White House garage. It was in his custody all the time. And he did not move it.
When it was in the White House garage, it was at its lowest point.

Mr. Dulles.

And there would be no opportunity to lower it from the time the President was shot?

Mr. Kelley.

No, sir. The President, of course, operates that thing himself. But when it was examined, at the time it was examined, and it was in the custody of this man all the time, it had not been touched.

Mr. Specter.

What was the height of President Kennedy?

Mr. Kelley.

He was 72 1/2 inches.

Mr. Specter.

And were you present when a man was placed in the same position in the Secret Service followup car as that in which President Kennedy sat in the Presidential car when the tests were simulated on May 24th of this year?

Mr. Kelley.

I was.

Mr. Specter.

Do you know the name of that individual?

Mr. Kelley.

He was an FBI agent by the name of James W. Anderton.

Mr. Specter.

And what was the height of Mr. Anderton?

Mr. Kelley.

He was 72 1/2 inches.

Mr. Specter.

Do you know the height of Governor Connally?

Mr. Kelley.

Governor Connally was 6 foot 4.

Mr. Specter.

Was that the height of the Governor himself or the Governor's stand-in?

Were you present when those two individuals were seated in the Secret Service followup car?

Mr. Kelley.

Yes, sir.

Mr. Specter.

And what adjustment was made, if any, so that the relative positions of those two men were the same as the positioning of President Kennedy and Governor Connally on November 22, 1963?

Mr. Kelley.

The officials at Hess Eisenhardt, who have the original plans of the President's car, conducted a test to ascertain how high from the ground a person 72 1/2 inches would be seated in this car before its modification. And