I Am The 1337 MasterIt might have been better to wait a little while longer after the “image lost” before you put the preview out. I think there'd be less “flipouts” and some people would be a little more understanding.

I dunno, I wasn't personally affected at all by that crash and I don't feel very understanding now. Well, maybe I am a little understanding in a certain way. I understand The Duck might not suit my future comic needs. And that'll be fine, I guess. Wowio's gonna do what Wowio's gonna do, and I'll roll with that in one way or the other.

The Layout:In terms of positioned elements I really like the new layout. I think it's clean, modern, and easy to navigate. I might feel a bit different once those blank spots are filled with ads, but at least right now I feel like there are enough rest areas.

The colors could use some adjusting, but people have been saying that already. I would make the blues a bit more deep green, and desaturated the acid green and harsh yellow.

Oh, and I hope that image that's being used for my comic in the “featured comics” section isn't permanent. That was taken from a guest page. :) But I'm guessing all of those were done quickly to fill the spaces and test the layout.

Name Change:I personally don't mind it. I totally understand the reasoning, too. I myself have had to explain the name to people before. “Oh, it's a comic hosting site. Not what you were thinking.” My only worry about it was having to track down every link I've made to the site and fix it, but even that's not a worry now.

I'm not against somebody coming up with a more clever name, though.

I'd recommend ditching the egg in the logo, since that's something I associate with chickens, not ducks. Plus, it's not very clever as a logo. Although it does look a little like a guitar pick.

Losing custom HTML:This was my biggest worry. I like custom HTML because it allows my comic to look different from other comics. If the layout editing system is robust enough, this won't be a problem for me. Really, there are only so many good layouts out there, and they differentiate themselves with different images, graphics, and colors. Most off-site comics are just slight variations to Comicpress themes.

If the layout options can meet these needs, I'll be totally fine with it:- A good several attractive layouts to choose from.- The ability to change any images and backgrounds we need to.- The ability to change fonts, font colors, borders, cell colors, etc.- Let us have graphic links to other places. I like to link to other comics that I feel deserve attention (and not just other Drunk Duck comics).- Additional pages (like Cast, About, and Downloads). Even if they're just linked to somewhere offsite.- Any other options that can help my make my page look like I designed it myself.

These features would be nice to have:- Random images? I like to put a randomly selected character in my banner for each refresh. I know, it's kind of specialized. But it would be fun.- The ability to choose where the Drunk Duck ads go.- Being able to use an outside source for tracking our traffic. I use SiteMeter because I don't trust the accuracy of DD's current hit counts. Plus, external trackers tell you neat things, like where you're getting linked from, locations of your readers, and other helpful information.- I don't use Project Wonder, but I can understand a comic author's desire to. And maybe some day i will use it. Count me as another vote for trying to get that instated, but if not, I understand why.

Wowio “springing” these changes on us:Doesn't putting up a preview of the site count as fair warning? I don't get why some people feel like they're getting bushwhacked here. This is your chance to see what's about to happen before it does.

People leaving The Duck over this:It's fair to question decisions being made and even worry about the welfare of the site. But to decide to leave based on a partially-finished mock-up before it even gets instated? That's just jumping the gun. Rather than spend effort on finding new hosts, why not provide calm, rational feedback to have them make it the site you want? They're asking for feedback right now! And I know it sounds like certain things you want are no longer negotiable, but tell them anyway. It couldn't hurt.

Additionally, high-profile comics leave Drunk Duck all the time. It's the natural order. Some of the internet's finest comics once called Drunk Duck home, but many of them go out on their own because it's the next natural step. And you know what? New comics naturally take their place in the rankings. I only mention this because there are only a precious few comic authors here who could use leaving Drunk Duck as a legitimate threat, and even then The Duck would probably do just fine.

Wait…are they getting rid of user made sub-forums?Product placement seems to have indicated this.If my forum is deleted or rendered inaccessible then I am gone.My forum is an absolute vital element of the community around my comic, and by its very nature not everything on there has been saved elsewhere.Please confirm to me that comic specific forums are going to be safe here after he move.

HawkPeople leaving The Duck over this:It's fair to question decisions being made and even worry about the welfare of the site. But to decide to leave based on a partially-finished mock-up before it even gets instated? That's just jumping the gun. Rather than spend effort on finding new hosts, why not provide calm, rational feedback to have them make it the site you want? They're asking for feedback right now! And I know it sounds like certain things you want are no longer negotiable, but tell them anyway. It couldn't hurt.

Additionally, high-profile comics leave Drunk Duck all the time. It's the natural order. Some of the internet's finest comics once called Drunk Duck home, but many of them go out on their own because it's the next natural step. And you know what? New comics naturally take their place in the rankings. I only mention this because there are only a precious few comic authors here who could use leaving Drunk Duck as a legitimate threat, and even then The Duck would probably do just fine.

Which is to say they're leaving JUST over this. When you throw out a universally terrible site design coming off the heels of a server crash (which lead to downtimes and excessively slow speeds), it's perfectly reasonable to be disgruntled. The fact that Wowio was never very responsive to our suggestions in the first place doesn't bode well either, and restricting aspects like HTML editing proves they're going to keep some old structural elements that created gaping security and stability issues in the first place.

harkovastWait…are they getting rid of user made sub-forums?Product placement seems to have indicated this.If my forum is deleted or rendered inaccessible then I am gone.My forum is an absolute vital element of the community around my comic, and by its very nature not everything on there has been saved elsewhere.Please confirm to me that comic specific forums are going to be safe here after he move.

lefarceThe fact that Wowio was never very responsive to our suggestions in the first place doesn't bode well either

This has honestly been my very biggest problem with Wowio. We absolutely need more communication directly from them.

Duchess of Friday Newsposts and the holy Top TenHave a comic milestone, a community project or some comic-related news you’d like to see ina newspost? Send it to me via PQ or at hippievannews(at)gmail.com!

Skool, by buying it out from under us, I mean NO ONE here wanted a soulless corporation to buy DD… I know all sorts of huge running cost numbers have been tossed around, but the truth is DD could run better than it ever has for around 150 dollars a month (dedicated, fast server, fan-operated). And that's the truth. DD could have survived on donations and maybe having a premium account option for 25 dollars a year where all ad banners were removed and people could point a real domain name to their site (OK, ComicFury gives you those things for free, still, I repeat, the forums here at DD are filled will wonderful people and well worth paying a premium just to enjoy their company).

That's all it would have taken… not a highly paid color-blind web designer, not a million dollar corporation drooling with dollar signs in their eyes when they think of squeezing DD for every penny it's worth. It started as a fan's dream to present webcomics for other fans. The was DD's soul. DD's soul has been sucked out, now… it reminds me of those computers in Japan that look like schoolgirls… on the surface it looks alive and appealing, but underneath it's just cold, hard calculations and sharp edges that will cut you.

As for Wowio only reading the feedback forum, why the HELL aren't they reading this forum? This is where everyone is speaking their mind, this is where the concerns and anger are… if WOWIO isn't reading this forum, isn't that really, really telling… doesn't that show just EXACTLY how little they care about the people who use DD? It's another ‘we dictate, you obey’ move by Wowio… typical.

My biggest objection would be striking the HTML editing feature. If that happens, will there be enough leeway in the precut designs to get all the extras and other things uploaded anyway? For example in WM I have a ton of mini-essays on a stack of buttons on the left. Will I be able to reproduce my layout based on precut options or will I be forced to squeeze my site in whatever mold has been pre-ordained?

Secondly, the ads are of course part and parcel of a free-use site, but I suspect if they are too intrusive the frustration level from the readers of the comics, let alone the creators, will not create the click-friendly atmosphere such ads need, will it? So if it were possible to either choose the placement for our comic, or at least place them at the margins rather then mix them in with things like the author notes and the reader comments, it would make everyone happy.

I Am The 1337 MasterIt might have been better to wait a little while longer after the “image lost” before you put the preview out. I think there'd be less “flipouts” and some people would be a little more understanding.

I dunno, I wasn't personally affected at all by that crash and I don't feel very understanding now. Well, maybe I am a little understanding in a certain way. I understand The Duck might not suit my future comic needs. And that'll be fine, I guess. Wowio's gonna do what Wowio's gonna do, and I'll roll with that in one way or the other.

But what I'm saying is they didn't wait. Even if you personally weren't affected, comics you read must've had some loss.

I Am The 1337 MasterIt might have been better to wait a little while longer after the “image lost” before you put the preview out. I think there'd be less “flipouts” and some people would be a little more understanding

Things were a little more complex unfortunately. :(

The whole crash happened when the programming and design team were on the last downhill run to getting the preview site up, so it was an even bigger disaster than it seemed. The preview site was put off and getting the DD up and running again took away from time and resources dedicated to that project. -people that were already working overtime doing everything they could to get the preview done then had to work all night and weekends to fix the worst of the DD bugs and problems.As for Wowio only reading the feedback forum, why the HELL aren't they reading this forum? This is where everyone is speaking their mind, this is where the concerns and anger are… if WOWIO isn't reading this forum, isn't that really, really telling… doesn't that show just EXACTLY how little they care about the people who use DD? It's another ‘we dictate, you obey’ move by Wowio… typical.Wowio IS reading the forum- Skool and I.Lawrence, our chief programmer, and Kinh, our website production coordinator, as well as all developmental and programming people under them are extremely busy programming and troubleshooting the preview site. There are a lot of demands on their time and it's very hard for them to assimilate and act on all sorts of information from all sorts of sources, especially at a time like this. The Get Satisfaction feature provides a system that makes it much easier for users to put information into a form they can easily assimilate and act on in an ordered way.It's the job of Skool and I to make sense of the mix of social, emotional and practical concerns here and then bring that directly to the attention of Lawrence and Kinh when we speak to them personally.

Hippie Van

lefarceThe fact that Wowio was never very responsive to our suggestions in the first place doesn't bode well either

This has honestly been my very biggest problem with Wowio. We absolutely need more communication directly from them.

This is probably more a failing of Skool and I more than anything else. As conduits between the Wowio design team and the DD community we've dropped the ball occasionally. But both of you were always mainly concerned with colour design choices, and frankly, those have always been a minor aspect of the things we're dealing with.-That Yellow does need changing though!Anyway, when hearing from us, you are hearing directly “from Wowio”, the Drunk Duck part.Lawrence deals with programming and oversees some aspects of design. Zach is the creative director who oversees all design, but the actual designer is currently away… Kinh coordinates all the websites and all the different people running them. Various other people handle different design and programming jobs. Matt West is the overall guy in charge of the sites… Brian Altounian is the owner of all Wowio. But there are many other people in between.

The thing is that nobody is really better equipped to answer questions relating to DD than us (Skool and I). We just have to do a better job at it.

SomeoneThe thing is that nobody is really better equipped to answer questions relating to DD than us (Skool and I). We just have to do a better job at it.

So everything is your fault now? awesome.

LOL! Sometimes.Mostly we're still in the old mode where we're just volunteers doing this for love and fun. It's hard to reconcile that with bigger profile, more professional responsibilities. There's a lot more at stake these days.

Before, Platinum didn't tell us much and didn't listen much and we could rightly put all the blame on them when things went its up. Things are very, very different now.

HawkHere's an image demonstrating the color changes I was talking about:

The saturation lowering helps, but the whole thing in your example/suggestion just looks darker. It also needs contrast changes. (Lighten up the background, and darken the text.) The contrast is the most flawed part of the current color scheme, imo.

HawkHere's an image demonstrating the color changes I was talking about:

The saturation lowering helps, but the whole thing in your example/suggestion just looks darker. It also needs contrast changes. (Lighten up the background, and darken the text.) The contrast is the most flawed part of the current color scheme, imo.

Yeah, I didn't really mess with the text, just did some slider adjustments on some color selections.

And looking at it again, I'd probably lighten the yellow up a bit like you said, so the text stands out better against it.

However, after trying out the preview I have to say that I can't honestly call this new site an improvement as of yet. Rather the opposite. There are three things that struck me as really bad mistakes on your part:

1: Where are the advanced customisation options?!I very much appreciate the new tools that enable creators to upload custom navigation buttons, if only they would work! If it's my fault, because I didn't meet specifications, it would at least be good to know, what those specifications are, but it doesn't say so anywhere. One of DD's main advantages is its user-friendliness especially for people who don't know first thing about computers - this is what drew me here, and it sure is a step in the right direction. However this is no reason to deny users the advanced options, even if you need skills at html! Comic creators, including me, want or even need to include other buttons of all kinds, e.g. donation buttons, links to their DA pages, their other homepages and whatnot. You can't possibly think of all the things they might want to do, so better leave it to them. Learning html is not that hard, after all - I knew all I need to after in no more than two afternoons.Also, the unique look of the comic layouts is one of the things that add a lot to DD's charm. There is a very good reason, why this is part of the annual DD awards.Without the advanced customisation options you would take away one of the most important features and a lot of what makes Drunk Duck attractive! We'd sorely miss it!

2: Why change the name to “The Duck”?? I think this is a really lame name. In my experience “Drunk Duck” is a name that people remember instantly and won't forget even when they lose the note with the link. This is crucially important when it comes to promoting your comics, and of course for drawing new members to the community.I know that some people had issues about the edginess of calling a site "Drunk Duck", but please don't forget that it's this very edginess that has helped to make it so popular.

3: The colour scheme is an eyesore!I like the general design of the page, but I can't understand why you still use a colour scheme that completely sucks as virtually everyone in this community told you. The background's OK, but that's just about it. I could never really warm to the blueish grey we've got here, but I prefer it a lot over what I saw in the preview, simply because it is more neutral. You can't please everyone, so don't try!

By the way:I miss being able to view user statistics for the comic, but this is only a minor issue.

I don't mind the ads. They get on everyone's tits, but that's just what ads do, and they are undoubtedly vitally necessary to keep this site running.

You did a remarkable job, but please consider these things, or you will murder the Duck, drunk or sober.

1.)Wait… the stats page is going? Does this mean you'll no longer be able to ascertain your page views? That's a real problem! Especially for those of us with zero tech savvy who lack the skills to upload a counter onto our pages. I suppose the ranking system is going, too? If so, that stinks! I avoided umbrella sites that didn't give you a way to measure the success of your comic, and now DD is joining the ranks of the page dumps? Please say this is a misconception.

2.)Oz… are you and Skool actually being paid by Wowio? If not, you've nothing to worry about. You're not Wowio employees in my book. No paycheck, no deal. You're in the clear. Union rules. ;)

3.)Speaking of Wowio… who/what are they, anyway? I don't usually haunt the forums, so I never learned the answer. What's their game? Advertising? Lisencing? Intellectual property speculation? What???

4.)And why is it necessary for the Wowio staff to work so much overtime to get the new site up? What's the rush? Clearly, no one here at DD is itching to move over. They can take their time. Take loads of time. No one will curse them for slacking if they don't. Working OT to fix the crash bugs… yeah, that's great. Glad they did that. Much Kudos to Lawrence. But why bust their keosters for the preview site? Chill, boys. We can wait. I'm sure no one will object if the Wowio staff doesn't break the 40 hour point on that issue. 8D

I was thinking. My biggest problem with the name change is the coming from the colon. Right now we are Drunk Duck: The Webcomics Community. The change is being made to The Duck: Webcomics. I know it is something weird (which is why it isn't going into the actual site feed back spot…)

I dunno. Maybe just a bit could be tweaked in the name if Wowio is insisting on it. I'm getting a good vibe from Duck Comics strangely enough (Though it is a hardly better name in the long run). But maybe even Duck: The Webcomics Community. I really do think that Community shouldn't be dropped from the name even if Drunk is. Cause we really are a community. So I would go with something like:

Duck: The Webcomics Community

Having an adjective makes it really stand out. Just saying the duck sounds too generic. you need something to make it pop. One of the reasons I came to Drunk Duck, is that I got curious when I heard the name. The Duck sounds like a little news rag about Mallards.

usedbooksThe contrast is the most flawed part of the current color scheme, imo.

Haha, that is something I have been harping about since I saw the very first mockup. They are tired of hearing me say “black text, black teeeext!” The designers are like “why don't we just make it a darker grey” and I am just like “why don't you make it the DARKEST grey???”

The yellow is very tiring to read more than a few minutes on. I always suspected that might be the case, but it's hard to tell until you've got a working version there to see the actual effects. At least they should be using the lighter yellow as the text background, not the darker one.

We've chatted with Kinh and Lawrence today and I believe they plan to release some info soonish (tomorrow?) regarding what bugs have already been reported (mostly from the Satisfaction feedback, but they are also reading this thread) and we've suggested a list of planned features as well, and to use the Quackcast we're recording this week to address concerns Oz and I are going to put to them about the design, functionality, etc.

Please remember that just because you don't see something currently on the preview site, doesn't mean it won't be there. There's a bunch of stuff that they're implementing even as we report bugs and whatnot. this is part of the reason we suggested they release a list of planned functionality. For example, they're already talking about cleverer options of reordering pages, etc.

Product Placement - interesting! Although that wouldn't work on my downstairs laptop- I'd have to horizontal scroll. :[ It just fits, currently.

lefarce - iiiiiiiiinteresting. :] So what you're saying is the main page should be a list of the most recently updated comics, with a login box and a twitter feed, and an ad at the bottom? Very minimalis! Naw just giving you a hard time. I think I get what you're saying with the customized main page and subscriptions.

I agree that tower ad is kind of a bizarre shape for that space. What's wrong with another square ad? Maybe they're required to create certain kinds of ad spaces by the network?

I'm having the same problem with the layout as you are; right now the DrunkDuck on twitter ‘box’ is in an awkward position, I think. The layout is quite ‘chunky’ which means that we have to scroll down a bit to read all the stuff on the front page.

The Spotlight section takes away from the Newspost and seems to be randomly shoved in there (for a lack of better words..) The focus of the frontpage seems to be less on the actual comics and more on the advertisements; the comic thumbnails should be a bit bigger, if possible. They are quite tiny.

I think there are more important issues to resolve, and about those, I'm hopeful. Lawrence has been responding in the feedback site, and it looks like he's really trying to find a solution re raw html and comic forums.

But when it comes to the name, I was really disappointed in his response. very

But I kinda get it. My background: I work for an organization where initiatives are set by people who have no clue as to what's involved. “Roll out” dates are established without much consideration, and those are BIBLE dates: come Hell or high water, we WILL roll out on the date even if the new initiative is not ready.

So, as much as I agree with 1337's opinion that the intro of the preview on the heels of the server crash was too much for most DD users to absorb in too small a time period - - a roll out date is a freakin roll date. Those are set on high and set in stone, at least where I work.

So there was really no time to poke and test the preview adequately because the designers had to deal with band-aiding an emergency. And now, all of this extra time and effort must be expended to mollify users who are, well, shocked about how many things don't work in the preview. It's a regrettable waste of time and effort, but a GD roll out date is a GD roll out date (at least where I work). In my experience, that's how big operations operate.

But I think that given enough feedback and enough time (so go and leave feedback!!!), functionalities will be addressed. Most likely, not to everyone's satisfaction, but there will be noticeable improvement. That's life.

However, the name is not a functionality. When it comes to names, you're talking branding, and then you have to go to a totally different group of white collars. I suspect that Lawrence's response on the feedback site is partially from the standpoint that he's a designer and not a corporate rep/marketing guy. It's out of his hands.

So if people don't like “The Duck” (and, truly, it sucks. Why else is THAT name not taken already by the url squatters?), then Go To The Feedback site and raise the number of feedback responses.

It's not that I believe “getsatisfaction” is the greatest thing since sliced bread - it's because it's the established system and sometimes you have to work with the established system if you want change, like it or not. I am pretty sure of this: no Wowio exec is going to be looking in this thread, but I believe that Lawrence would be able to report “there's like 50 people upset about the name change” if there were 50 feedbacks.

Again, there are bigger issues. So goo and report them. please. And if you don't speak now, it'll be “The Duck”.

I clicked that link for the first time. I finally had a moment today to just sit down and explore the preview.

Initial thoughts:

I'm on the fence about the color scheme. It almost seems like something I'd stumble upon on a preteen's myspace page. It's not terrible, but it does leave me with the surreal feeling that I'm a bit more “hip” just for signing up.

The TEXT though, oh LORD the text….yeah, that's got to change. It was an instant migraine. Perhaps it's just my laptop, but I'd like to blame it on the text color. I clicked on the comics tab to see how exploring new comics would be and for a moment I thought the page hadn't loaded because for a moment I couldn't even see the light blue text. It's called “Black” and there's a reason people use it so often.

Which does bring me to a bit of praise - the pages were loading very quickly, quicker than the normal drunkduck. Bonus.

The forums were that same god awful shade of canary yellow that would be a million times better if it only had BLACK TEXT. Also, there was no reply button at the bottom of threads in the forums. That would make things difficult.

Also, why so much scrolling on the main page? It's really tedious. The news is hard to find, though I like the placement of the personal control panel area.

The twitter box is like way the heck down there, though.

The four horizontal bars of icons is a lot more engaging than the current design for the 10spot and quails random. So kudos on the horizontal bars.

Altogether, I'd have to say the new “duck” leaves me feeling hopeful and a tad confused. They took away some things that really worked for the community (like readable text, mascots, and a gentler color palatte). They added some things (updated 10 spot, the ability to “like” a comic, and a revamping of many site related icons) that left me feeling like there might be plenty of things to look forward to after all.

Though I can't help but picture the person who picked out this color scheme sitting down at their computer and trying to actually use the new website and getting a very rude shock to the eyeballs…

“No one can go back to start a new beginning, but anyone can start today and make a new ending,” Maria Ross.

First off, don't know that this is the appropriate topic/forum – regardless, apologies extended as due.

So, on the feedback site, I got a response to a “feeling” I expressed rather than to the body of the post. Maybe I have a different definition of “feeling”, but my advice is that “feelings”, as emotional responses, should not be the focus of a post.

— (wildebeests say: and there's more!)

Anyhows, the other point of interest was seeing the membership referred to at 10K. I'm curious as to how this number was derived. Is it an “industry” number, using a percentage of the total purported members (and looking at Ally Haert who joined 2 months ago, she was the 108,590th)? Or are numbers actually tracked?

If 10K is based on something more than just a rough industry attrition estimate, a 90% attrition over -what?- five years might be something to look at.

Is there ever an inquiry? an exit survey of sorts? Let's use Genejoke as an example (hope you don't mind, A). He is an incredibly active member and all within a year's time. What if he left? Suddenly no new comic updates; nothing in the forums. Is there any office at Wowio who would send an email to ask him why he was no longer active?

Maybe these numbers aren't tracked. Maybe they can't be tracked. But if they can be and are, do such emails go out? Please understand that I am not requesting this, I'm not even saying it should happen. I just would like to know how such membership numbers are thrown around.

—in summary: don't ask when you don't want to know ( Feelings . . . nothing more than feelings . . trying to forget — yada yada) and ask when you should know.

ayesinbackIf 10K is based on something more than just a rough industry attrition estimate, a 90% attrition over -what?- five years might be something to look at.

I think that's about active user accounts- traffic and all that. It's not that hard to track from the backend.

Ally HaertThough I can't help but picture the person who picked out this color scheme sitting down at their computer and trying to actually use the new website and getting a very rude shock to the eyeballs…

Most of it was done on Apple screens… probably calibrated for printing. You know how graphic designers can be?Anyway, even the initial PNG preview images weren't as bright as the actual html browser renderings. Unfortunately colours work very differently across multiple screens and systems. Even on my two main work monitors at home that sit side by side the site looks completely different. The designer is out of the country right now so changes in that end will be tricky for a little while. It's his job to take care of that aspect and implement changes.But we can ask Zach, the creative director, about that in the Quackcast recording on Thursday.