CONFIRMED!! A Teaser Description For TERMINATOR SALVATION!!

UPDATED 06/20/08 10:52am CST USA
Merrick again...
We've had confirmation that the material described below is, indeed, the trailer being shown to focus groups etc.
Seems to be exactly as described, although one reader said he felt "Bale looked a lot older than he did as Bruce, and quite battle scarred".
So there you have it.
--- ORIGINAL ARTICLE FOLLOWS ---

Merrick here...
We've been hearing indications for a while that (not surprisingly) some form of teaser for McG's TERMINATOR SALVATION will be attached to THE DARK KNIGHT.
Ace Hunter sent us this message after taking part in a focus group which (in part, at least) involved the theatrical teaser for "T4".
Ace's description pretty much fits what we've been hearing through the grapevine.
NOTE: in the past we've had reports from focus groups for different projects; occasionally reports accurately describe a variant of trailer that wasn't ultimately used. Which is a convoluted, insufficiently caffeinated way of saying: the person writing to us in those instances actually did see material, but The Powers That Be ended up going with different promos when all was said and done.
So, the presentation below could change a bit between now and when THE DARK KNIGHT drops into theaters on July 18th. For the moment, however, here's where things seem to stand.

It opens with footage of people out in every day life. Christian Bale voiceovers
something like:
"I always knew it would happen"...
Than a pause...
"They told me I could stop it."
The same people begin looking to the sky....
"That I could save us".
Looks of horror come across their faces as he says,
"They were wrong".
Music rises as we cut to black for a second. The Terminator theme starts, with the duh duh,
duh, duh, duh.
NEXT SUMMER appears on the screen...
We get a quick shot looking out over a sunny desert, and then a shot of Bale, in badass commando uniform
and very recognizably the same guy who plays Batman, being lowered into a huge bunker
of weapons.
THE FIGHT FOR THE FUTURE
rolls across, and we get mixed clips from inside one of the survivor bunkers as seen in Terminator 1 - but they look more concentration campish; very crowded, shots of Bale walking with a large crowd. And then the word...
BEGINS.
The music quickly rises as we get shot of a huge truck racing down a high way, a shot or two of a helicopter flying mixed with more close ups of the actors when Bale whispers, "They're coming".
It all goes quiet.
Massive drums blare the beginning of the theme (again) but this time much louder, more pumped up, as we get a metallic silver T that morphs into a 4.
We then get the big money shot of the trailer. Its Bale on a motorcycle with some girl on the back.
They speed through a door of what looks like a warehouse toward us. As soon as they
pass the screen, a huge terminator on wheels, a lot like the one they battle in the
first one, smashes through the wall, chasing them. It looks awesome.
It then says:
Memorial Day 2009.
I was not a big fan of T3 aside from the ending, but this looks really good.

Granted T3 was awkward, but the transition from Hope to Inevitability probably had no other way to go but Awkward. But now the franchise is in the clear-cut, kick-ass, post-apocalyptic world that sent the first Terminator and Reese to 1984. Based on the trailer's description, might Bale have a larger role in the story than first described???

If you can't get Schwarzenegger, at least bring back Brad Friedel to do the score. It might be PG 13, but you've got Bale on your team, so try your best and give as film that terminator fans really deserve.

They should call it Charlies Angels 3
Cameron Diaz can be the Terminator. Can't be any worse than the Sarah Connor Chronicles with that 12 year old looking retard girl as a terminator, who can't act worth a shit.

they have got to keep making these terminator films, why?
1) Because time travel changes everything- the GEEK answer
2)They keep making money
3) Original Ideas are in short supply in Hollywood , and for the few that they have no studio wants to risk the $$$
4) Maybe they'll Finally get a sequel done Right

FIEDEL<P><P>FIEDEL<P><P>FIEDEL<P><P>FIEDEL<P><P>FIEDEL<P><P>FIEDEL<P><P>FIEDEL<P><P>FIEDEL<P><P>FIEDEL<P><P>I suck at spelling but come on t's a dude's name. That's like saying I love that band Narvana.

i like it. it's like "jumping the shark" for a new generation.
in all seriousness though, this could be good. it all depends on how it's handled. not a huge McG fan, but "we are marshal" was pretty good. in a way i like the idea of a subverted john connor. it's like what would have it been like in the matrix (before fans started hating it because of the sequels) if neo had died in that hall and not woken up. remember the look on lawrence fishburn's face? how do you tell the entire human race their messiah is dead? it has a lot of potential.

I really have high hopes for this 4th installment, even though Im not a McG fan, I think he has potential, and the source material is a TAD better here than it was with Charlie´s Angels...Also, check the updates on the official movie website, its pretty cool.

...that there's a description of a trailer and people are saying "sounds awesome!"
no it doesn't. it sounds like every other trailer released in te past decade.
the voiceover sounds like what i would expect.
it's just another case of hollywood beating a dead cash cow.
won't be there, despite christian bale's involvement.

But I may see it if the previews look good. T3 sucked, but the first two were classics. Maybe they can capture some of the magic of the first two. Christian Bale is a big upgrade from Nick Stahl who was horribly miscast as John Connor. <br><br>
If I was to lay odds, I would say this movie is an improvement over T3, but fall far short of T1 or T2.

But, sadly, I don't have much faith in anyone involved, save Christian Bale. I just PRAY he actually read a script before signing on and didn't just sign on because he was a huge Terminator fan, only to find himself hopelessly saddled with shitty writing - like what happened with Liam Neeson and The Phantom Menace.

Won't be in this, he was probably offered a part and then told them that unless he's offered 20 million and made the star of the movie he wouldn't do it. Thats one thing you can't fault McG on, he brought back Crispin. That dude is nuts.

I don't have a problem with McG directing this or any the aforementioned actors starring in it. I'm sure they'll do they best they can.<p>
The thing I DO have a MAJOR problem with is the fact it'll be PG-13. The story might be great, the action well-filmed, John Connor dramatically interpreted by Bale, but... no blood, guts, "fuck you, asshole!"s, or other adult themes. It'll be dumbed down kiddie fare, when all is said and done. Which is unfortunate, since, you know, James Cameron's original two films were R-rated.<p>
If McG had been given the go-ahead for an R-rating, I think he would've done a great job. But this PG-13 version will be a bloodless, far less dramatic incarnation of what could've been.<p>
Oh well.

...is from the TV show...the episode with the intentionally fake, clumsy, and rubbery early generation terminators that slowly drag people into the basement Texas Chainsaw Massacre style....those things were fuckin creepy...their dead rubbery faces would definitely have given me a nightmare or two as a kid...

I haven't been on here in a bit, but I already have to disagree with MESSI. <br><br>It WAS ridiculous enough to be constantly made fun of. And should BE! No one should get away with thinking they made a good movie there....

Is this same MCG that runs Supernatural? If so I don't understand the hate. Supernatural is one of my favorite shows. But then again I'm just a regular non nerd that actually enjoyed high school and doesn't live in my mothers basement.

Get past it! The only TERMINATOR movies that will EVER grace my DVD shelf are 1 and 2. Why is ANYONE giving this flick a pass?<br><br>What has this guy done to inspire ANY faith...We Are Marshall!?!? They didn't even say "Wooster" right in that...

You got that right. I'm sure they could have done worse--perhaps casting Verne Troyer--but they couldn't have done much worse. There were several flaws in T3, but that was a big honking one on the screen through most of the movie.

Mainly because while Jumping the shark is releated to TV show franchises. Nuke the fridge is for movie francises. Its better then Riggs fight the Shark or That Yippie Ki Blep Moment or Nipples on Batman or American Pie Presents or Non Thinking Hulk or Co-Starring Larry The Cable Guy or Dancing Spiderman or whatever.

or kicked ass, depending whether or not it was renewed. <p>The PG-13 thing really does suck though. It's not like I'm a 12 year old who needs to see a lot of blood and guts (there really wasn't a lot in the other films. A lot of people went down but it wasn't horror movie material. Episodes of 24 were more violent than most of the T movies) or that I need to hear "FUCK" every other word. </p><p>But PG-13 movies just have a different feel to them. Even with the unrated Die Harderest, you could just tell it was a PG-13 with some "fucks" and a little blood thrown in. </p><p>These movies should be brutal, much more than the first three. And to be realistic (within the confines of its own continuity, it should be an R. I guarantee Die Hard: Service Pack 4 didn't do any better by pussing out.</p>

I've been waiting for. The dude who could unite humanity against the machines and make me believe it. But that PG-13 notion. shit What's with all this PG-13 shit, first Beverly Hills Cop 4 and now Terminator. How about texas Chainsaw Massacre in PG-13. Friday the 13 in PG-13. Damn. I if they do that shit I'm official quitting Hollywood. Well, not really, but you see my point.

I think we were all over Batman after
Batman and Robin, but casting Bale was one of the best things the Batman franchise ever did. T3 was pretty lame (aside from Kristana Loken's opening scene), and if it was any other actor playing Connor I might not give it a chance. But we'll see.

is that it precludes that everyone will think in hindsight that Indy 4 was terrible, the worst of the series or was somehow ruined by that fridge sequence. In a few months when Indy 4 comes out on dvd, I think the general opinion will be it's not that bad, pretty decent and all things considered not the train wreck the film could have been. Me, I loved the film and Im sure 9000 people (or all the same person with a different handle) will leap out and start throwing hexes at me for saying it. The rest, even those disappointed aren't likely to keep making a big deal out of it once some time has passed. My guess is Indy 4 will fit nicely in with the other sequels eventually, when time has passed. So, right now it's just a snarky way for heart broken fanboys to express outrage over something that made them realize their childhood and those things in it have faded and will never be again. And that's fine.
If you want to work up a lasting catch phrase, look to The Happening. After seeing that last sunday I am certain time will only be harsher to that one, and the director who made it. In fact a shyamalan could probably be the new term for taking great potential, success and popularity and then forcefully pissing it all away.

and hell yeah, I grew up watching Terminator and Beverly Hills Cop when they ballsy hard R bastards, now I'm old enough to see that shit in theaters and giving us PG-13. It aint the blood of the F word. It's that they go to that place. And seeing on the PG-13 leash is like Sopranos on A&E.

Come on, you can't say it doesn't. Consider me excited for this. Oh and I refuse to coin that stupid NUKE THE FRIDGE shit. Unless it means "something that may be a little over the top, but quite unexpected and entertaining completely inside the realm of the movie franchise it is set in, haters go fuck yourselves". Yes, I'd use it if it meant that.

...than you're an idiot! Okay, that MAY be a bit harsh. I do know some who can reasonably argue that is was an alright ACTION movie, but I wanted it to be an INDIANA JONES movie. See where I'm coming from?

...that it's airtight, basically. So kudos on that. But I mean to say that we will be thinking LESS of Indy 4 years down the road...DAHOY! I mean, I WAS pretty torn up on September 12th, 2001...now, not so much.<br><br>Whoa...did I just compare Indy 4 to 9/11!?!?!

...even people who label themselves as "haters" seem to use it wrongly. <br><br>Now I am 28 and far from hip, so if I'm wrong please let me know...<br><br>I thought that to be a "Hater" is to unjustifiably hate. Like seeing a poster for a movie and going "that's gonna suck"...THAT is a HATER...<br><br>but if once you've seen a movie you decide you don't like it...THAT is not being a HATER. That's just making a decision.<br><br>Soooo...morons who call people HATER for not liking shitty movies like Transformers, Spider-man 3 or Indy 4 are NOT Haters.

movie humor and charisma. This was the Harrison Ford and the Indiana Jones character I've always loved. And you know what the franchise is famous for over the top stunts and it does fit. It ait supposed to be realistic people.

there are many good things about Indy 4, not least of which was Harrison Ford proving he hadn't be replaced by an animatronic puppet. As time progresses I think the movie will be remembered (and someof this will depend on what Harrison himself does from here on out) for bringing the cool and tough Harrison Ford around for one more adventure.

Is a pretty good show that effectively utilizes it's production budget to pull off good action for the small screen. Anyone who says it sucks obviously never saw past the pilot. The show hit it's stride and then kept going. And I previously never understood the appeal of Summer Glau but now I do. She pulls off stunts well. And finally the end of season 1 was great. I'm happy that they are bringing this back for a season 2.

When I first left the theater my feelings about the movie was "meh." By the time I got home I began to dislike it. By the next morning a really disliked it. I'm still glad I saw it but I never wish to see it again.<p><p>
IMO, the major failing of this movie is common in nearly all of Spielberg's movie for over a decade now. The 2nd and 3rd acts blow. INDY4 had an ok 1st act (fridge and gophers aside.) The 2nd act was weak. The 3rd act was simply terrible.<p><p>So is it fair to ask the question: Has Spielberg nuked the fridge? <p><p>I hope not but IMO his track record since the mid 90's is not so good.

one scene in one they didn't like and never seem to anything to say about anything they might like. Or when they replace citial commentary with "sucks" and or come catch phrase like Nuke the fridge. I have problems with Transformers and I say what they are and i say it when the subject comes I don't leave at sucks And I don't sspontaneously bitch about it on talkback links that nothing to do with Transformers and it hasn't been mentioned before.

But you will all see it next Summer. PG13 or not. I hate McG. I think he is untalented, has no visual flair, and doesn't know how to utilize a budget properly. But there is hope that he can prove me wrong. As for the rating? Tell me what about T3 was R rated? The robochick killed most people off screen. So the rating doesn't bother me. And if this movie looks good, expect it to make money. Arnold is the reason why T3 didn't make a huge Iron Man sized killing. By that point people wanted to see the war, not John running away from a robochick with a toaster between her legs and a robot with a receeding hairline and crows feet protecting him.

INDY 4 had many, many scenes that were groan inducing. Monkey boy, gophers, WTF temple destroying UFOs, waterfalls, nut-slamming sword fights, ect. But only one of these scenes can be summarized as a quotable gerund phrase. <p><p>Nuking the fridge.<p><p>As much beloved cartoon character would say: "Joy!"

My problem with the film was that I did not once get any sort of rush from the action on screen. Nothing was exciting. It was all overblown and over the top. The nuked fridge, the gophers, that train rocket, the 3 falls down a waterfall, the ants, the pimping of Shia as an action hero when he fought on the cars and swung on vines. It was all messy for me. And I left the theater not caring about what I saw.<p>It was like Temple of Doom 2, but I liked Temple of Doom as a kid and even enjoyed it as an adult. This movie was like if they were trying to outdo "The Mummy" movies on the silly scale.</P><P>And while I don't have a problem with Shia at all (He has natural charisma) he was wrong for the role. Maybe I am biased because of the "James Dean" movie, but James Franco would have been a much better fit for the role IMO.</P><P>All that said, I would see an Indy 5, only if they took it back to the old school flicks and gave us action we could get excited about. I also disliked how it seemed everything was filmed on a closed set.</P><P>So there, a critique of Indy 4 that did not use buzz words like "Sucks", "Meh", or "Nuked The Fridge".

Are you talking to me? Cuz I didn't even bring up Nuke the Fridge except to comment on it. I haven't said it ANYWHERE but that post a few clicks up....sooooo as far as me obsessing on it, the proof is in the pudding.<br><br>I also could sing day and night about what I did and DID NOT like about Indy 4 and how the did not's tipped the scale...I've done that before so I'm not gonna do it now. <br><br>My post was about HATER and the way it gets thrown around and you seemed to come up with a perfect definition to justify YOUR use of it. Way to go, champ!<br><br>

But nevermind.<br>
<br>
As for I4 -- I liked it. I went in with lowered expectations, so that was probably a good thing.<br>
<br>
I will buy it when it comes out on DVD to add to my collection of Raiders and Last Crusade.<br>
<br>

First off it's pg-13, that's lame and that means the only type of violence will see is robots blowing up walls and not people. MCG is one of the worst hacks out there. Oh yeah and the leaked plot line of the robot with a Riddick personality wearing Connor's skin which is the biggest WTF type of move a movie has made in long time. I don't care if the trailer gives me a fucking hand job when I see it this movie will suck.

The first shot in the movie is a CGI gopher<br><br>The VERY out of character "well actually quiksand is not as..." moment, Marion is NOT the spitfire she was in Raiders, the slingshot tree that is supposed to be her MOMENT TO SHINE?!, I swear the Blanchett drops her accent a few times and her character is laughable, Jim Broadbent is committing espionage and betraying his friend of decades because he lost at the track?!?!<br><br>The hamfisted interogation by the FBI ("yeah, but did he deserve them")....Shia and the monkey swinging, the entire last 30 minutes....I have a general problem with adding UFOs to the mythos....uhm...the blatant fan-service of tossing in the Ark (I mean they PAN away for a second JUST TO SEE IT!!!!)<br><br>Indiana Jones yelling GO GET HELP! to a crazy guy in the middle of the jungle and than he's SURPRISED when he brings back the RUSSIANS!?!?!

but there are to many things to turn me off. If this movie is indeed PG-13, I will not go see it. If that "twist" is true, I will not even rent it.
On a related note, Arnold should not be present in this movie depending on the time frame. Is this is shortly after judgment day, then the T-800 should not exist. Of course again if it's in that time frame the twist shouldn't be possible at the time either.
Frankly I think this movie is setting itself up to suck fat dick.

...for me to take a steaming pile of shit on! I have a huge fan of the entire series and decided to play Brad Fiedel's score while I write this. Check out his Fright Night score as well. Anyway, T3 had some major flaws, but I left the theater more than satisfied. I think that ballsy ending had a good deal to do with it. Nick Stalh was a far better John Conner, btw. Even James Cameron enjoyed it. T2 is a masterpiece. The blue tinged, steely cinematograpry ws gorgeous, the t-1000 was mencacing as all hell, and the "boy and his robot" moments had heart. Hell, even the now antiquated rear-projection shots worked. The first Terminator is a lean, mean B-movie action Sci-Fi shoot-em-up that was far more entertaining than it had to be. The pacing was intense (important dialogue was divulged during chase scenes and moments of suspense), Arnold was a revelation, the action was first-rate (i still can't believe the semi-truck explosion was a miniature). All three, however, had something besides Arnold -- hard R fucking action! Whether it Arnold ripping out the punk's heart in the first one (he was also killed by Stallone in Cobra btw) , or The T-1000 stabbing John's step-dad with his blade through the mouth. Or even in T3, when the two cops in the passsander and driver seats are gutted (or at least one is), from the backseat by the Fem-Bot. If T4 is bitched down with a PG-13 rating, like Live Free or Die Hard, or Robocop 3, or Conan the Destroyer, I will refuse to buy a ticket, and never purchase it on DVD. I know, I know, my 10 dollars doesn't amount to a hill of beans, but it's my non-contribution. I will also scream from the highest hill for people to avoid it. Oh, and I may write a strongly worded letter.

..is that its complete bollocks. Indy 4 will continue to be regarded as fucking shite for years. It isn't fit to wipe the arse of any of the other films and anyone who knows the tiniest thing about movies knows that film isn't worth a squirt of piss. And they'll still be saying that in twenty years. If there's an encyclopedia entry for 'pointless, ineptly scripted aberration' it should read 'See Indy 4'.
As for T4 - I love Bale but no one can claim this is anything other than a shameless cash-in. McG? Capable of making a film that won't look like complete shit when compared to 1 and 2? Place your bets!

ending they supposedly have in store regarding John Connor. It's not as if McG is an auteur, I wish some focus group will terminate said ending (if it's legit) and come up with something stronger that - how 'bout that? - doesn't insult the loyal fans.

It's a sequel and therefore by defenition WILL be compared to its predecessors. There is NO WAY that McG will make a good movie when compared to 1 an 2! He has NO VISION. And don't throw that "the Charlie's Angels movies were fun" shit at me....THEY SUCKED! They were action movies for your fucking girlfriend. <br><br>I live in a world with blood. A world were people say FUCK alot and I would imagine they'd say it alot more if the end of humanity were approaching. <br><br>This movie will not get a DIME of my money! At least Indy 4 had Spielberg and Lucas back...THIS...this is nothing more than an attempt to make money...and NO, that is NOT what all movies are.

Charlie's Angels<br><br>Charlie's Angels: Full Throttle<br><br>We Are Marshall<br><br> and than a bunch of Offspring music videos and an episode of an unfunny TV show.<br><br>oh, but look at that, they've cast his remake of SPACED and...well oh my lord...WILL SASSO is in it. You remember him. He was the least funny cast member of a show full of unfunny cast members (MAD TV...and yes, that show is bad). Well, while he's certainly not making points in the integrity market (not getting hte okay from Pegg, Stevenson, etc) I'm sure his constant string of mediocre movies and terrible TV shows will guaran-damn-tee (Will Sasso Stone Cold impression) that the TERMINATOR franchise is in the hands is SUPPOSED to be in.<br><br>Well, I can sleep at night now.

What is it with fanboys and teasers? Relax. Wait for the real trailer before you give it up! Don't forget who is at the helm. Little reminder - CHARLIE'S ANGELS 1 &2. Oh now you recall. Well, good for you.

and based on the action in T3, they don't look like they'd be all that fast. Certainly not fast enough for motorcycle pursuit. So these babies must be a couple steps up. I can poo-poo about a fourth Terminator movie till the cows come home, but I know I'll be there for it the first week.

Skeezy priest? If there is anything that the world to come together and agree upon, its that the priest at the end of the movie who married Indy and Marion Ravenwood at the end is the ugliest person ever to be in a mega expensive blockbuster. Where did they find that guy? And why did they make him the priest with his Enlisted Guy mustache and I think a pink suit? Now Indy does have the worlds ugliest cast to begin with, but my god when that Priest came onscreen everyone in the theater busted out laughing because the dude was so weird looking.

a nuclear weapon, and so the term "nuke" would still apply. both use fission reactors to produce their explosive energy. An H-bomb, which only six countries now posess, use the Tellar-Ulam designs (where fission is compartmentaized) along with fission reactors.

...I'll make the movie Gods a deal. I'll watch this clean and without reservation...I'll even try to avoid my new version of pig-latin called 'McLanguage McFuck!' (where you put a 'Mc' in front of most every word) when watching McG's latest project. But even if it IS good...even if all expectations are surpassed. Even if Bale isn't just phone this shit in...even with the absurd rumored plot details...I won't tear the movie or McG apart. I promise. BUT! I do not and will not consider anything past T2 as canon...fucking ever. Not the disney shit...not that idiot terminatrix crap...none of it. Terminator really..is the genius movie and T2 is a slightly more 'pop-corned' version but still a great sequel. I'd love for Salvation to be kick ass AND smart...but I'll still think of it as seperate from the universe Cameron created.<p>But you know what would be truly kick ass AND genius?...<p>"So, Conner, what's this about a resistance? Wait...wait a minute! Where are you going?"<p>"Uh..I have to return some video tapes."

The whole Marcus thing sounds dumb and hopefully isn't real, BUT, at the very least, we can all rest assured that it will be better than the WORST movie of the series, the nadir of the series, T2: WE WUV WOO ROBODADDY aka T2: OLD YELLER.

Aliens and Terminator. Everything else, especially the laughably awful p.o.s T2, has been cringe inducingly awful. He hasn't made a movie in like, what, 9 years? Insert fork. Done and done. Watch McG pwn him, and watch a nation of obese middle aged virgins fart with rage as they 'hate' T4 and watch it over and over and over and over and over and over again.

I hope that if they include Connor sending Reese back in time that they get Michael Biehn to play the part and digitally age him backwards a la X3. I dind't think that looked perfect, but it was pretty damn cool, and I'd prefer it to someone else taking the role. Wait, they cast a kid as Reese right? Or is that in the tv series?

We watched ALIEN and ALIENS back-to-back a few weeks ago. ALIEN is still brilliant. ALIENS hasn't held up nearly as well. Too much bad dialog, bad acting, slow motion, and cheap scares. ALIENS is still a good popcorn flick, but that's about it.

I don't know why they needed Arnold in T3 , all John Conners had to do was hire the three Charlie angel broads, I mean they can fly, dodge bullets and kick some serious ass o yeah !! The hell with Arnold, Super chicks powerpuff girls Charlie angels are super human they would have saved the apocalypse from ever happening

people will still mention the first two Terminator movies as some of the best actions made. LaserPants... the only Cameron you can hate on is Titanic for corny love story. His others movies still entertain. I can't wait for Avatar. I read the treatement that was online and if Cameron and Weta come through.... that's gonna be one sick movie. Dark Knight needs to be out now. Peace.

The focus groups are more about figuring out what the audience likes so they can make more money, not necessarily what makes the story better.<p>Oh sure, we might get the occasional re-shoot to get a better ending (See Star Trek Generations), but since it's all about opening weekend $, the focus groups have done nothing but flushed creativity down the crapper.

#1--I didn't know the music for The Terminator had words--"duh duh duh duh duh". Really quite catchy.
#2--Bale is in a bunker again. Will there be dragons in this flick, too? Or super-ridiculous vehicles? What is it with the bunker movies? This one may just Nuke the Shark Jumping Leprechaun.
Pondscum, you're quite the wit. Love it.

Sly did right by the character by giving us a hard R Rambo, which has become one of my favorite movies this year...can you imagine a Terminator as badass as Rambo is? Holy shit, I would need that on Blu Ray...

I actually find the action in T2 to be grindingly dull. Its just not a good movie. I have no idea why so many people love it so much. I still remember seeing it in the theatre many moons ago with my girlfriend at the time and just laughing at how bad it was. At least T3 wasn't pretentious -- it revels in its implicit campiness. Cameron's sense of cartoonish gravitas in T2, on the other hand, is so bad, and so forced, and so flat that it comes off as an unintentional comedy to me -- its like watching what a 5 year old thinks adults are like. But you know that Cameron isn't even remotely kidding -- he's dead on serious the entire time and he thinks he's the worlds pre-eminent genius. Basically, like a really egotistical pre-adolescent with father issues.

Wow, Laserpants. You wrote (regrading "T2"), "[Cameron] thinks he's the worlds pre-eminent genius. Basically, like a really egotistical pre-adolescent with father issues."<p>
Okay. I'm all for people having strong opinions on films and directors, but you're inferring an awful lot about Cameron with that statement. It's true Cameron pushes people who work for him to be great, but I wouldn't categorize this as pre-adolescent behavior. If anything, Cameron showcased in Furlong how a pre-adolescent actually behaves. Young, annoying, and thinking he's got all the answers. This is why I liked the film, even though the first "Terminator" is still my favorite.<p>
Cameron doesn't cut corners. He doesn't fuck around with half-assed ideas. He pushes people to exceed expectations. You can complain about the final result all you want, but don't cast allusions on Cameron that you can't substantiate.

Just keep saying it, everyone. It's on its way to pop culture vernacular legendary status.<br><br>By the way, how many fridges do you think Skynet nuked on Judgment Day? It was a hell of a lot of them! So much story potential there...

By supporting films like Crystal Skull and the SW prequels, you are only encouraging the industry to continue destroying the artform that made the original Indy and Star Wars movies great. You are telling the executives that you don't know the difference between sophisticated entertainment and CGI-bloated bullshit. They will respond by producing more bullshit. It's easier for executives to put loads of money behind a marketable idea than to find and oversee great talent in the creation of something great. Thank God for Pixar.

my utter, unfathomable contempt for Jon Favreau's slapstick comedy known as "Iron Man" <p>
Trust me, it's no use: if a movie is popular enough with the masses, you won't convince anyone here of its supposed (or real) weaknesses. You have some valid points, but 17 years too late I'm afraid. <p>
And for the record, T2 rocks. Sorry, had to say it ;-)

That trailer sounds right tonally with the first two films of the series, and if he adheres to Jim Cameron's established vision (and what sounds like some mentoring from Iron Jim from the sidelines) then this could prove to be something special. Hopefully McG's matured and cast of the MTV vacuity of his sophomore efforts, he's certainly proven he can handle character based drama quite effectively, if he applies that to T4 and maintains the tone and continuity of the originals he could earn some credibitly and respect from the fans. At which point he should consider reverting to his real name.

Looks cool at first... and then goes apeshit and they nuke the fridge, jump the shark, violate your youth up your collective asses, and then you transform into whiny little bitches. Can't wait to see this... even if it's a POS.

"so fuck off you shithead Indy IV lovers" So anyone who likes Indy 4 is a shithead? So because you didn't like it it means everyone who does is a shithead huh. How about your a shithead for making such an incredibly stupid statement like that.

I am sure I will see it, I have seen every Terminator movie thus far. I enjoyed T3 although it was the weakest of the three, but was still good fun. I can't envision a PG-13 Terminator movie being as good as an R one, but I reserve judgement until I see the finished product. I think if they keep the spirit and feel of the previous films, it may be good, but time will tell. Having Christian Bale in it is definitely a plus though.

I've said it before and I'll say it again: it pisses me off that studios pull that PG-13 shit in an attempt to make movies more youth-friendly in the hopes of boosting profits for the opening weekend. And then they try to "fix it" by releasing an "unrated" or "Director's Cut" version on DVD. Only, you end up with something like Die Hard 4 - which was filmed with the PG-13 rating in mind, so there isn't really any hardcore, unapolgetic ass-kicking R-rated material to add in. Maybe you get a curse word here and there. Maybe a little splash of blood. But it's still the same pussy movie it was before, requiring little to no editing to be broadcast on TV. While not every movie should have an R rating just for the sake of blood and nudity and profanity, I don't think there's anything wrong with allowing a movie to be R-rated when the material calls for it. And Terminator was always an R-rated movie. It wasn't MEANT for kids or family. If you've got kids and want to see a family movie, take them to see fucking Harry Potter or something. This is motherfucking TERMINATOR. And if you saw the first or second one, then you were probably at least 16 or older. Which means you're even older now. How is castrating the film going to appeal to the fans of the originals? And where's the sense of marketing this to people who, if you go by ratings, shouldn't have seen the original Terminator movies? I just pray that if they go with the PG-13 rating, that everyone out there boycotts the movie so it fucking bombs. Hell, if they're intent of pussifying the franchise, I hope the movie turns out to be such a colossal blunder that it fucking cripples the studio, forcing them to have massive lay-offs, people and their families starve, and one crazy motherfucker goes completely psycho and hunts down studio executives with a shotgun, a roll of duct tape, a can of gasoline, and some road flares.

theres already a term for it Piece of shitand to all you indy haters i say you expect to much go to adventure movie and enjoy yourselfs not try to reinvent the wheel with stupid coins you think are inventive

there's already a term for it
piece of shit
and to all you indy haters. some people actually go to movies to have a good time so piss off and keep the stupid phrases you think are inventive to yourself. Lucas and Speilburg had better things to do with thier time than make a movie that exceds your unatainable ideals

I love the terminator movies. ALL OF THEM. I dont understand why some people hate T3, it had a much darker doom and gloom feel and the ending battle was bad ass. As for MCG? Well, I hated the charlies angels movies. The only thing that seems to be saving this is BALE. We'll see.

Went to see IRON MAIDEN a few weeks back at the Journal Pavillion in Albuquerque which is near the Albuquerque Studios in Mesa Del Sol and saw a movie set. It looked like a wasteland, destroyed cars, a burned out 7-11. had to be the T4 set which is filming here [as is The Spirit].

Graphic violence hasn't gone down since the 90s.
Could movies like SAW and HOSTEL have been released as mainstream R-rated movies in the 90s? Uhm, no.
If anything, an even higher level of violence is accepted now days.

I know I'll never convince anyone, I just like to keep brining it up cause it cracks me up how upset people get when I bust on T2: WE WUV WOO ROBODADY aka T2: OLD YELLER. And I truly am dumfounded by the love T2 gets. I really do not understand it. T2 is mediocre at best. I think its the kinda thing where if you were, say, 8 years old, a very impressionable age, and you hadn't really seen many other movies, it would burn a hole in your brain based more on nostalgia than quality thereby elevating a mediocre, unintentionally hilarious, boring, father-complex movie to the status of classic.

Dude, there are literally hundreds of better action movies, but here are some: T3 for one. The Mad Max series (even the corny one). Aliens (created loving by Cameron before all of his talent disappeared). Children of Men (most amazing final 20 minutes EVAR). French Connection (the car chase specifically). Kill Bill (especially part 1). The Matrix. Blade. More or less every Run Run Shaw kung-fu movie. The Killer. Drunken Master. Thats just off the top of my head. Truth be told, I am hard pressed to think of any action movie that isn't better than T2.

How the fuck anyone can say that is beyond me. For a start the whole film is a total retread of T2. Arnold just parodies himself and the TX doesn't hold a candle to the T-1000 as a villain. It's a competent action movie but it has no right to sit on the same shelf as T2.

No pre-adolescent sense of laughable gravitas, no whiny teenager, just balls out action and funny. That bathroom fight scene borders on grindhouse exploitation! Its dumb, sure, but awesome. T2 is just dumb and overly serious; like something an angry 10 year old with an absent father would write.

Looks like you're still in a state of mental disorder. T2 is worse than T3 ?? Worse than Mad Max 3 ??? The only appropriate comment to that is: HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!! <p>I guess you also think that T2 is worse than that cinematic equivalent to a steaming pile of doggy crap commonly referred to as Speed Racer.

Humanity, as we know it, will end. We tried to stop the future, but you can't stop whats coming. Once Mcg absorbed the remaining media outlets, humans were forced underground. <P><P>(inset end of world montage here)BAM!<P><P>Earth as we know it was gone. Now a barren, uninhabitable wasteland of cheap re-makes and sequels, the scorched earth was the final battleground between good and mega-lame.

but for your info Bale isn't a limey, he's Welsh.
LaserHead - How is T2 overly serious? The humour is there and isn't forced like it is in T3. Arnold putting on a star shaped pair of shades? How do they come up with this stuff?? Christ, I thought I'd heard it all but never thought someone could claim T3 is better than T2.

Your posts display a shocking lack of knowledge about filmmaking. T3 is just a cheap remake of T2 by a hack director. The staging and editing of Cameron's action sequences are breathtaking. Your claim that the action sequences in T3 are better than T2 is frankly hilarious. Stop making an ass of yourself on here and go and read some film theory books.

absolute crap- too light, no sense of peril, awkward story. Its a bad movie, let alone a bad Indy movie. Whats more frustrating is that if Spielberg had kept his balls it could have been the best Indy sequel. Everything I heard in pre got me excited- a 1950s Indy, ancient astronauts...it sounded like the perfect way to go. Unfortunately, its my opinion that the beards took far too many wrong turns during the later development stages.

So how can you judge it? Your opinion means nothing until you actually see it. THEN you can hate it and justify that hate. Hating it without even seeing it makes you seem rather silly. At least I saw T2, and hated it. Well, maybe hate is too strong a word. I thought T2 was grindingly dull, unintentionally hilarious, and totally fucking stupid. Again, I didn't see it when I was 5, so maybe it would have made more of an impression on me. I may have even shed a tear for Old Yeller, I mean, RoboDaddy instead of rolling my eyes and groaning.

but this T4 might not. First and foremost is Bale. He's a really really good choice for John Connor. Really good. I am concerned about the PG-13 rating thuough. I dislike this trend in hollywood. When I was 13, I found a way to see R rated movies if the ticket guy was a douche and kids now will do the same. No really to dumb these films down for the kiddies. I'm hopeful for this though, I'm not quite ready to hate on McG quite yet. He's a stylish filmmaker, overly stylish at times, but I think he's not without some talent as a director and for all the Cameron ass kissers, don't forget he made Titanic, which is hands down the most overrated steaming pile of crap film ever made. It sucked.

He loves doing these action movies even if the scripts aren't too hot (Equilibrium, Reign of Fire). Devin of CHUD was right, it would be nice to see Bale play something other than a dour guy with the personality of a soggy piece of bread. 3 billion human livetthh ended on Augutthht 29th, 1997. The tthhurvivortthh of the nuclear fire called the war Judgment Day. They lived only to fatthhe a new nightmare: the war againtttht the machinttthh.

Just not in a way that comes off as unintentionally hilarious like T2 does; a movie apparently written by an angry 8 year old with absent father issues. <br><br>For example, Children of Men clearly takes itself seriously, but its also a deeply disturbing, depressing, and finally redemptive film that feels real, and isn't a goofy, forced, cartoonish mess ala T2. All the gravitas of CoM feels genuine, tactile, relatable, real. All the gravitas of T2 feels like an after-school special on steroids -- a really dumb, bad, pretentious movie that only children, or cognitively impaired adults, could possible take seriously.

While I think it's a good movie I always though that it took a wrong way. In T1 the war could not be stoped. Kyle is not send to stop the war but to make sure the men's leader will not die. (He wants the war to happens!) In T2 I didn't like the whole we-can-stop-the-war-if-we-really-want-to things... T3 put the franchise back on track I think (even if the first half is almost a T2 remake, mostly beacause the movie took so much time to be made that it needed some explanations for the audience that didn't saw the first two). My two cents.

But I'll feed him anyway.
It's easy to trivialize any movie, which is exactly what LaserPants is doing to take the cool, unpopular opinion. Of course John has absent father issues - because, well, he doesn't have a father around. Who would've thought? He tries to view the Terminator as his father - it's not a far fetched dynamic. But it's easily trivialized.
Let's not forget that T2 had ground breaking CGI for its time and that Robert Patrick was bad ass as the T1000. Every movie has it's weaknesses, including T2, but it's far better than T3. Apart from the chase scene at the beginning the T3, it's a travesty. And it's inherent campiness is not a good thing; it's a dis-service to the whole franchise and to what Terminator is supposed to be.