I think the worst one is the spinning cresent kick knife defence. You know the one where they hold a knife up and you kick it out ehir hands with some flashy TKD style jumping spinning kick and you feel so fuckin glad that the mutha wasn't actually trying to stab you?

That's on a par with this one. Two guys in front of you. Run between them, jump and do a quarter turn. While in the air throw a fist at one and a leg at another (so you look like a spasticated fitness video instructor). Whilst they're reeling from your attack, cartwheel back the other wayand run off. Now, if you have to cartwheel back the other way to get in the desired position to make a retreat, hows about just fucking off the hole jumping **** and just lturning round and legging it?

Whenever somebody attacks you from behind, they'll either put two hands round your waist and make sure you hve your arms free, or they'll put a hand on your shoulder and leave it there.

When you're on your back and some mutha is on top of you (in the mount) jut knee them in the ass and they'll roll off. Believe me, muthafucka,that move won't do **** for you. If it does the other guy is so soft and weak you should be ashamed of yoursen for letting him get you in that position in the first place.

As some moron on the huingkuen.net forum told me, horse stance can be applied in a fight. If somebody punched this guy apparantly he would grab their fist, drop into horse stance, thus pulling the other guy down and off balance, then he would do a palm strike to their nose whilst they're looknig down slightly having being pulled off balance.

Ah, I see.
I think we manage to Bullshido-ify it at Shotokan though, most locks we do are unresisting, although I've been told off a number of times for using them in sparring. Well, our Sempai told us how to submit so I assumed locks were legitimate.

There's always one. But to be fair to Shotokan it is primarily a striking not grappling sport.

I'm suprised you did any grappling at all. At my Shotokan shool, we never really touched anything like that with the exception of some b.s. wrist grabbing someone claimed was a good kata applicaton. Although, we did have some ki-aikido weirdos come in to teach us all about ki. I remember that they taught us the "unbendable arm." Basically, you were supposed to imagine your arm was a firehose and this would shoot your ki out of your arm and make it impossible for anyone to bend your arm. Did it work? When there was a big height/strength difference. Is it useful? Hell no. There's only one portion of my anatomy that I can imagine is a fire hose, and it sure isn't for fighting.

Even better was this time we went to a ki seminar. Not only did I get an awesome review of the unbendable arm, I also got to watch two guys play with their sticks. The guy teaching the seminar, who was one of the fattest people I have ever seen by the way, had two guys stand on either side of a jo staff and try to push it towards each other. Then he volunteered me to help with the demo. He said "Push the stick to one side." I push to one side and nothing happens. Then he says "Now this time, instead of thinking about moving the stick, think of helping one of the people." Before I even put my hand on the jo, these weirdos jump two feet to one side. There was even more b.s., but I think you get the picture.

That's an extreme case, but Shotokan has it's share of b.s. too. I can't tell you how many times they made me try to block an incoming punch with a shuto strike in a backstance. Amazing how the problem was always me and never that it's just not a very good technique. 13 years and the problem was still always me. Or there was the ever popular, block a punch to your stomach with a downward block. Too much to list, but it's a good thing I didn't turn bitter. Damn it.

I have one worthy of this thread now . Monday My instructor brought out the dreaded red notebook of bull **** for the up coming belt test .

I SWEAR to god we ended up shortly there after , judo rolling to our invisable training partner and side kicking them ... from a kneeling position . Then using a combo of elbow strikes to the thighs and the groin .

So .. we have an attacker thats 8 feet away ... we are suppose to judo roll across broken glass and lava into what a I consider to be a place asking to kicked ,stomped, kneed ,etc . Then once we are in the killing range ( basicly sitting on the ground on one hip looking up at the person's groin , you have to be close enough to use the elbows right ? ) we side kick ...from the ground mind you no leaping up into it or anything fun and flashy to add power, but sitting .... then launch a twisting right left elbow strike combo to the thighs then a right elbow up into the groin .

All the strikes (side kick included) are pretty useless becouse of the lack of body weight , hip motion , and silly ass angles . If I am going to start striking someone while I am on the ground they are gonna be down here with me damn it ! Not kneeing my face into a pulp while I flail my elbows around .

While I haven't been taught many "useless" moves in Enshin Karate, I know a few others shown to me by friends, namely Crescent Kick, Snap Kicks, High Roundhouses (this one being one of the most impractical kicks in Enshin, in my opinion), any kick done in the air, etc. Spear Hands aren't very effective for me either, as Hook Kicks aren't. A lot of Aikido throws I've read about seem not entirely useless, but they're close. Maybe it's different in a Dojo, but the book had the throws being used as a defense against a wrist grab, which nobody really does.

I don't know if it's "bad" per se, but every every time we've been taught judo foot sweeps, I just couldn't "get it". Something just ain't clicking.

Hi KeinHaar. Have you been sure to break their balance before you attempt the sweep? If not, give that a go, it should make your sweeps a lot more effective.

I have a few gems to add to your list. When I was in the army we had this officer whom we shall simply call Lt M. He was a twit as well as a wanker. He lived in his own world in which he was totally incompetent (like these complete fukcers I used to flat with whom I shall refer to only as .... Haw and Hem). Anyway. to the point.Lt M was supposedly a high ranking student of some "hard core" style. Don't know how long he for trained or what the style was. Whatever it was .... well....... here are some of the bits I remember best.... let the following describe his "methods" (right handedness assumed. Reverse if lefty of course):

A). Place feet and hands on the ground, with your body facing UPWARDS. Whilst remaining in this position, kick your leg out to the side at 90 degrees towards your enemy.

B). Stance: stand side on with right hand up by head and left arm straight down by your side.

C). Blocking. Keeping your left arm completely straight and clenching the fist, swing it up to intercept the blow and then lower it back down.

D). Knife hand: Fairly standard, except you don't hit with the hand. You hit down with the fingers, little finger first.

E). Some kind of back kick: As enemy comes in, turn around and stand upright, facing away from him. Swiftly pull heel straight up to buttocks as per a standing quad stretch. The intent of this is to connect with the groin. Or get smacked in the back of the head.

F). Armpit kick: When enemy punches, side step and swing straight leg upwards. Object is to hit enemy in the armpit with your shin. Why? I really don't know.

G). Another back kick: As enemy approaches, turn around so that you are facing away from him. Drop into pushup position with straight body, arms and legs. As he charges in, raise one leg (keeping it straight) and try to collect him under the chin.

H). Never use your hips or legs when punching! It is "uneconomical movement". Arms just arms men!

Here are a few other little examples I came across elsewhere. These are from lessons from guys who did a six week training programme that "qualified" them as instructors.
The basic concepts of the system were good. It was based on simple, dirty fighting focusing on knees, groin, eyes, throat etc. However, the actual teachings were a big pile of horse doodies.
Here are a few examples (note that the strikes listed below are the ONLY strikes this system actually permits. ALL are off the front hand. Rear hand strikes were forbidden as they were "Too slow

A). Stance: Stand side on to enemy, feet shoulder width apart. Have rear hand up by head. Arm facing foe is to be held at a 90 degree angle , bent at the elbow also on a ninety degree angle. This was known to most of us as the "Please break my ribs" position.

B). Knife hand: From the above posture, strike down by straightening arm at the elbow. The arm straightening action is the ONLY motion for this in their teachings. Basically nothing but tricep. They insist on everything else being still. As you can imagine, its like hitting someone with a feather duster.

C). Palm heel strike: From the same side on position, pull arm back and push palm out to the side. Basically imagine standing still and pushing something to the side of you.

D). Eye/throat strike: Same as palm heel above but with fingers held rigid and pointing at target.

F). Knee stomp: The technique itself is no problem. Basically stomp heel onto enemy knee to over extend and wreck joint. The issue here is how they tried to apply the method. One would now turn to face one's enemy with feet parallel. Throw both hands straight up in the air (and I do mean completely straight). The theory is that the enemy will then look up in confusion and you can stomp on the knee. Or he could smack the hell out of you while you're completey unprotected.

G). Kinsetsu Geri (forgive my crappy Japanese spelling): To those unfamiliar with the term its basically a sidekick to the knee. Don't get me wrong, a very useful and nifty thing. But once again the "instructors" have completely missed the point and come up with a totally crap way of applying it. Stand sideways as with most of the other techniques here. Side cross step and execute the strike. While doing this have BOTH HANDS ON YOUR SUPPORTING KNEE for "Balance". If the first shot misses, keep on going continously. The theory is that "Even if he gets out of the way of the first one or two, if you keep running at him sideways kicking all the time you'll get him with one sooner or later!". Or he might just smack you in the head.