Site:SS lessons/BOM lesson 7

This page allows you to see all the commentary pages together for this Book of Mormon Gospel Doctrine lesson. Click on the heading to go to a specific page. Click the edit links below to edit text on any pages.

This section is for detailed discussion such as the meaning of a symbol, how a doctrinal point is developed throughout a passage, or insights that can be further developed in the future. Contributions may range from polished paragraphs down to a single bullet point. The focus, however, should always be on understanding the scriptural text consistent with LDS doctrine. Click the link above and to the right to edit or add content to this heading. →

2 Ne 3:5-17. These verses are closely aligned with JST Genesis 50:25-35 (though not always word-for-word; it appears that Lehi is mixing paraphrase, quotation, and explication). However, v. 18 has no parallel in JST Genesis 50, and the sole subsequent verse in JST Genesis that quotes Joseph has no parallel in 2 Ne 3. This suggests that in v. 18 Lehi is speaking for himself again: "And the Lord said unto me [Lehi] also [in addition to Joseph of Egypt]: I will raise up unto the fruit of thy [Lehi's] loins" etc.

2 Ne 3:24. This verse has sometimes been interpreted that there will be a great prophet from the descendants of Lehi's son Joseph. Others interpret this as another reference to Joseph Smith, since the rest of the chapter seems to talk very clearly about Joseph Smith. As we read the verses carefully, it is important to note that Lehi does break the narrative to address his son Joseph in verse 23. However, this does not confirm that the "one mighty among them" will be from the seed of Joseph (Lehi's son). Verses 22-23 can be read parenthetically: Lehi pauses the story to tell his son that his seed will be among those who will accept the Book of Mormon translated by Joseph Smith. Verse 24 is a repetition or clarification of the prophecies of Joseph now told in his own words. This reading is strengthened by the words "do that thing which is great." This is referring to some "thing" not mentioned in verses 23-24; presumably, Lehi is referencing the events already described by Joseph as "great" (see verse 7: "of great worth," verse 8: "great in mine eyes," verse 9: "great like unto Moses"). Lehi also describes this person as "mighty." See verse 14, from Joseph's prophecy: "they that seek to destroy him shall be confounded." In verse 24 Lehi also mentions that this great thing will aid in the "restoration unto the house of Israel." See also a reference to Joseph Smith and the House of Israel in verse 13. While it is possible that another prophet from Lehi's son Joseph will also fit this model, it is also appropriate, upon a close reading of the chapter, to read verse 24 as referring to Joseph Smith.

This section is for questions along the lines of "I still don't understand ..." Please do not be shy. The point of these questions is to identify things that still need to be addressed on this page. Click the link above and to the right to edit or add content to this heading. →

This section is for prompts that suggest ways in which a passage can influence a person's life. Prompts may be appropriate either for private self reflection or for a class discussion. Click the link above and to the right to edit or add content to this heading. →

This section is for prompts that invite us to think about a passage more deeply or in a new way. These are not necessarily questions that beg for answers, but rather prompts along the lines of "Have you ever thought about ..." Prompts are most helpful when they are developed individually, thoughtfully, and with enough background information to clearly indicate a particular direction for further study or thought. Click the link above and to the right to edit or add content to this heading. →

2 Ne 3: Types and shadows. Lehi blesses his son Joseph by telling him of Joseph of old who prophesied of Moses and the latter-day Joseph. Presumably this blessing to Joseph was more than just information. Presumably it gave him something he could use in his own life. In addition, it compares Moses and Joseph Smith in a way that helps us understand each better. Is this use of types and shadows the way that we are to apply the scriptures to ourselves? Of what types do we see shadows in today’s world?

2 Ne 3:1, 3: Why does Lehi make it a point to keep reminding Joseph that he was born during the time of Lehi's greatest afflictions?

2 Ne 3:5: To what degree has this prophecy been fulfilled? If you think it is still being fulfilled, what would it take for it to be completed?

2 Ne 3:5: Are the latter days mentioned in the prophecy of Joseph referring to the time that Christ visited the Nephites after His resurrection, or to some future time when He will gather in the Lamanites, or both, or some other time and event?

2 Ne 3:5: What is meant by "the spirit of power," why does this not just say "power," what is the difference?

2 Ne 3:7-8: Whom are these verses about? What does it mean to say “he shall do no other work, save the work which I shall command him"?

2 Ne 3:9: Great like unto Moses. In what ways was Moses great? How does the delivering role of the seer being described here relate to the bringing forth of the word and convincing in verse 11ff?

2 Ne 3:11: Why is Joseph Smith here described as a seer rather than a prophet? (How do the two differ, or do they?)

2 Ne 3:17: How were the ancient Joseph and Moses the same? What is the significance of a rod? What rod did Joseph Smith have?

2 Ne 3:18: How many spokesmen did Joseph Smith have? How does the fact that he had more than one cohere with this verse? What does this tell us about prophecy?

2 Ne 3:23: What does it mean to say that Lehi’s son Joseph is blessed because of the covenant? How is he blessed? Why is it an important blessing to know that your descendants many generations hence will not be destroyed?

Suggested answer: As a possible answer, see D&C 107:42 and Abraham 1:4.

This section is for listing links and print resources, including those that are also cited elsewhere on this page. A short comment about the particular strengths of a resource can be helpful. Click the link above and to the right to edit or add content to this heading. →

Footnotes are not required but are encouraged for factual assertions that average readers cannot easily evaluate for themselves (such as the date of King Solomon’s death or the nuanced definition of a Greek word). In contrast, insights rarely benefit from footnoting, and the focus of this page should always remain on the scriptures themselves rather than what someone has said about them. Links are actively encouraged on all sections of this page, and links to authoritative sources (such as Strong's Bible Concordance or the Joseph Smith Papers) are preferable to footnotes.

This section is for detailed discussion such as the meaning of a symbol, how a doctrinal point is developed throughout a passage, or insights that can be further developed in the future. Contributions may range from polished paragraphs down to a single bullet point. The focus, however, should always be on understanding the scriptural text consistent with LDS doctrine. Click the link above and to the right to edit or add content to this heading. →

2 Ne 3:5-17. These verses are closely aligned with JST Genesis 50:25-35 (though not always word-for-word; it appears that Lehi is mixing paraphrase, quotation, and explication). However, v. 18 has no parallel in JST Genesis 50, and the sole subsequent verse in JST Genesis that quotes Joseph has no parallel in 2 Ne 3. This suggests that in v. 18 Lehi is speaking for himself again: "And the Lord said unto me [Lehi] also [in addition to Joseph of Egypt]: I will raise up unto the fruit of thy [Lehi's] loins" etc.

2 Ne 3:24. This verse has sometimes been interpreted that there will be a great prophet from the descendants of Lehi's son Joseph. Others interpret this as another reference to Joseph Smith, since the rest of the chapter seems to talk very clearly about Joseph Smith. As we read the verses carefully, it is important to note that Lehi does break the narrative to address his son Joseph in verse 23. However, this does not confirm that the "one mighty among them" will be from the seed of Joseph (Lehi's son). Verses 22-23 can be read parenthetically: Lehi pauses the story to tell his son that his seed will be among those who will accept the Book of Mormon translated by Joseph Smith. Verse 24 is a repetition or clarification of the prophecies of Joseph now told in his own words. This reading is strengthened by the words "do that thing which is great." This is referring to some "thing" not mentioned in verses 23-24; presumably, Lehi is referencing the events already described by Joseph as "great" (see verse 7: "of great worth," verse 8: "great in mine eyes," verse 9: "great like unto Moses"). Lehi also describes this person as "mighty." See verse 14, from Joseph's prophecy: "they that seek to destroy him shall be confounded." In verse 24 Lehi also mentions that this great thing will aid in the "restoration unto the house of Israel." See also a reference to Joseph Smith and the House of Israel in verse 13. While it is possible that another prophet from Lehi's son Joseph will also fit this model, it is also appropriate, upon a close reading of the chapter, to read verse 24 as referring to Joseph Smith.

This section is for questions along the lines of "I still don't understand ..." Please do not be shy. The point of these questions is to identify things that still need to be addressed on this page. Click the link above and to the right to edit or add content to this heading. →

This section is for prompts that suggest ways in which a passage can influence a person's life. Prompts may be appropriate either for private self reflection or for a class discussion. Click the link above and to the right to edit or add content to this heading. →

This section is for prompts that invite us to think about a passage more deeply or in a new way. These are not necessarily questions that beg for answers, but rather prompts along the lines of "Have you ever thought about ..." Prompts are most helpful when they are developed individually, thoughtfully, and with enough background information to clearly indicate a particular direction for further study or thought. Click the link above and to the right to edit or add content to this heading. →

2 Ne 3: Types and shadows. Lehi blesses his son Joseph by telling him of Joseph of old who prophesied of Moses and the latter-day Joseph. Presumably this blessing to Joseph was more than just information. Presumably it gave him something he could use in his own life. In addition, it compares Moses and Joseph Smith in a way that helps us understand each better. Is this use of types and shadows the way that we are to apply the scriptures to ourselves? Of what types do we see shadows in today’s world?

2 Ne 3:1, 3: Why does Lehi make it a point to keep reminding Joseph that he was born during the time of Lehi's greatest afflictions?

2 Ne 3:5: To what degree has this prophecy been fulfilled? If you think it is still being fulfilled, what would it take for it to be completed?

2 Ne 3:5: Are the latter days mentioned in the prophecy of Joseph referring to the time that Christ visited the Nephites after His resurrection, or to some future time when He will gather in the Lamanites, or both, or some other time and event?

2 Ne 3:5: What is meant by "the spirit of power," why does this not just say "power," what is the difference?

2 Ne 3:7-8: Whom are these verses about? What does it mean to say “he shall do no other work, save the work which I shall command him"?

2 Ne 3:9: Great like unto Moses. In what ways was Moses great? How does the delivering role of the seer being described here relate to the bringing forth of the word and convincing in verse 11ff?

2 Ne 3:11: Why is Joseph Smith here described as a seer rather than a prophet? (How do the two differ, or do they?)

2 Ne 3:17: How were the ancient Joseph and Moses the same? What is the significance of a rod? What rod did Joseph Smith have?

2 Ne 3:18: How many spokesmen did Joseph Smith have? How does the fact that he had more than one cohere with this verse? What does this tell us about prophecy?

2 Ne 3:23: What does it mean to say that Lehi’s son Joseph is blessed because of the covenant? How is he blessed? Why is it an important blessing to know that your descendants many generations hence will not be destroyed?

Suggested answer: As a possible answer, see D&C 107:42 and Abraham 1:4.

This section is for listing links and print resources, including those that are also cited elsewhere on this page. A short comment about the particular strengths of a resource can be helpful. Click the link above and to the right to edit or add content to this heading. →

Footnotes are not required but are encouraged for factual assertions that average readers cannot easily evaluate for themselves (such as the date of King Solomon’s death or the nuanced definition of a Greek word). In contrast, insights rarely benefit from footnoting, and the focus of this page should always remain on the scriptures themselves rather than what someone has said about them. Links are actively encouraged on all sections of this page, and links to authoritative sources (such as Strong's Bible Concordance or the Joseph Smith Papers) are preferable to footnotes.

This section is for detailed discussion such as the meaning of a symbol, how a doctrinal point is developed throughout a passage, or insights that can be further developed in the future. Contributions may range from polished paragraphs down to a single bullet point. The focus, however, should always be on understanding the scriptural text consistent with LDS doctrine. Click the link above and to the right to edit or add content to this heading. →

2 Ne 3:5-17. These verses are closely aligned with JST Genesis 50:25-35 (though not always word-for-word; it appears that Lehi is mixing paraphrase, quotation, and explication). However, v. 18 has no parallel in JST Genesis 50, and the sole subsequent verse in JST Genesis that quotes Joseph has no parallel in 2 Ne 3. This suggests that in v. 18 Lehi is speaking for himself again: "And the Lord said unto me [Lehi] also [in addition to Joseph of Egypt]: I will raise up unto the fruit of thy [Lehi's] loins" etc.

2 Ne 3:24. This verse has sometimes been interpreted that there will be a great prophet from the descendants of Lehi's son Joseph. Others interpret this as another reference to Joseph Smith, since the rest of the chapter seems to talk very clearly about Joseph Smith. As we read the verses carefully, it is important to note that Lehi does break the narrative to address his son Joseph in verse 23. However, this does not confirm that the "one mighty among them" will be from the seed of Joseph (Lehi's son). Verses 22-23 can be read parenthetically: Lehi pauses the story to tell his son that his seed will be among those who will accept the Book of Mormon translated by Joseph Smith. Verse 24 is a repetition or clarification of the prophecies of Joseph now told in his own words. This reading is strengthened by the words "do that thing which is great." This is referring to some "thing" not mentioned in verses 23-24; presumably, Lehi is referencing the events already described by Joseph as "great" (see verse 7: "of great worth," verse 8: "great in mine eyes," verse 9: "great like unto Moses"). Lehi also describes this person as "mighty." See verse 14, from Joseph's prophecy: "they that seek to destroy him shall be confounded." In verse 24 Lehi also mentions that this great thing will aid in the "restoration unto the house of Israel." See also a reference to Joseph Smith and the House of Israel in verse 13. While it is possible that another prophet from Lehi's son Joseph will also fit this model, it is also appropriate, upon a close reading of the chapter, to read verse 24 as referring to Joseph Smith.

This section is for questions along the lines of "I still don't understand ..." Please do not be shy. The point of these questions is to identify things that still need to be addressed on this page. Click the link above and to the right to edit or add content to this heading. →

This section is for prompts that suggest ways in which a passage can influence a person's life. Prompts may be appropriate either for private self reflection or for a class discussion. Click the link above and to the right to edit or add content to this heading. →

This section is for prompts that invite us to think about a passage more deeply or in a new way. These are not necessarily questions that beg for answers, but rather prompts along the lines of "Have you ever thought about ..." Prompts are most helpful when they are developed individually, thoughtfully, and with enough background information to clearly indicate a particular direction for further study or thought. Click the link above and to the right to edit or add content to this heading. →

2 Ne 3: Types and shadows. Lehi blesses his son Joseph by telling him of Joseph of old who prophesied of Moses and the latter-day Joseph. Presumably this blessing to Joseph was more than just information. Presumably it gave him something he could use in his own life. In addition, it compares Moses and Joseph Smith in a way that helps us understand each better. Is this use of types and shadows the way that we are to apply the scriptures to ourselves? Of what types do we see shadows in today’s world?

2 Ne 3:1, 3: Why does Lehi make it a point to keep reminding Joseph that he was born during the time of Lehi's greatest afflictions?

2 Ne 3:5: To what degree has this prophecy been fulfilled? If you think it is still being fulfilled, what would it take for it to be completed?

2 Ne 3:5: Are the latter days mentioned in the prophecy of Joseph referring to the time that Christ visited the Nephites after His resurrection, or to some future time when He will gather in the Lamanites, or both, or some other time and event?

2 Ne 3:5: What is meant by "the spirit of power," why does this not just say "power," what is the difference?

2 Ne 3:7-8: Whom are these verses about? What does it mean to say “he shall do no other work, save the work which I shall command him"?

2 Ne 3:9: Great like unto Moses. In what ways was Moses great? How does the delivering role of the seer being described here relate to the bringing forth of the word and convincing in verse 11ff?

2 Ne 3:11: Why is Joseph Smith here described as a seer rather than a prophet? (How do the two differ, or do they?)

2 Ne 3:17: How were the ancient Joseph and Moses the same? What is the significance of a rod? What rod did Joseph Smith have?

2 Ne 3:18: How many spokesmen did Joseph Smith have? How does the fact that he had more than one cohere with this verse? What does this tell us about prophecy?

2 Ne 3:23: What does it mean to say that Lehi’s son Joseph is blessed because of the covenant? How is he blessed? Why is it an important blessing to know that your descendants many generations hence will not be destroyed?

Suggested answer: As a possible answer, see D&C 107:42 and Abraham 1:4.

This section is for listing links and print resources, including those that are also cited elsewhere on this page. A short comment about the particular strengths of a resource can be helpful. Click the link above and to the right to edit or add content to this heading. →

Footnotes are not required but are encouraged for factual assertions that average readers cannot easily evaluate for themselves (such as the date of King Solomon’s death or the nuanced definition of a Greek word). In contrast, insights rarely benefit from footnoting, and the focus of this page should always remain on the scriptures themselves rather than what someone has said about them. Links are actively encouraged on all sections of this page, and links to authoritative sources (such as Strong's Bible Concordance or the Joseph Smith Papers) are preferable to footnotes.

This section is for detailed discussion such as the meaning of a symbol, how a doctrinal point is developed throughout a passage, or insights that can be further developed in the future. Contributions may range from polished paragraphs down to a single bullet point. The focus, however, should always be on understanding the scriptural text consistent with LDS doctrine. Click the link above and to the right to edit or add content to this heading. →

2 Ne 3:5-17. These verses are closely aligned with JST Genesis 50:25-35 (though not always word-for-word; it appears that Lehi is mixing paraphrase, quotation, and explication). However, v. 18 has no parallel in JST Genesis 50, and the sole subsequent verse in JST Genesis that quotes Joseph has no parallel in 2 Ne 3. This suggests that in v. 18 Lehi is speaking for himself again: "And the Lord said unto me [Lehi] also [in addition to Joseph of Egypt]: I will raise up unto the fruit of thy [Lehi's] loins" etc.

2 Ne 3:24. This verse has sometimes been interpreted that there will be a great prophet from the descendants of Lehi's son Joseph. Others interpret this as another reference to Joseph Smith, since the rest of the chapter seems to talk very clearly about Joseph Smith. As we read the verses carefully, it is important to note that Lehi does break the narrative to address his son Joseph in verse 23. However, this does not confirm that the "one mighty among them" will be from the seed of Joseph (Lehi's son). Verses 22-23 can be read parenthetically: Lehi pauses the story to tell his son that his seed will be among those who will accept the Book of Mormon translated by Joseph Smith. Verse 24 is a repetition or clarification of the prophecies of Joseph now told in his own words. This reading is strengthened by the words "do that thing which is great." This is referring to some "thing" not mentioned in verses 23-24; presumably, Lehi is referencing the events already described by Joseph as "great" (see verse 7: "of great worth," verse 8: "great in mine eyes," verse 9: "great like unto Moses"). Lehi also describes this person as "mighty." See verse 14, from Joseph's prophecy: "they that seek to destroy him shall be confounded." In verse 24 Lehi also mentions that this great thing will aid in the "restoration unto the house of Israel." See also a reference to Joseph Smith and the House of Israel in verse 13. While it is possible that another prophet from Lehi's son Joseph will also fit this model, it is also appropriate, upon a close reading of the chapter, to read verse 24 as referring to Joseph Smith.

This section is for questions along the lines of "I still don't understand ..." Please do not be shy. The point of these questions is to identify things that still need to be addressed on this page. Click the link above and to the right to edit or add content to this heading. →

This section is for prompts that suggest ways in which a passage can influence a person's life. Prompts may be appropriate either for private self reflection or for a class discussion. Click the link above and to the right to edit or add content to this heading. →

This section is for prompts that invite us to think about a passage more deeply or in a new way. These are not necessarily questions that beg for answers, but rather prompts along the lines of "Have you ever thought about ..." Prompts are most helpful when they are developed individually, thoughtfully, and with enough background information to clearly indicate a particular direction for further study or thought. Click the link above and to the right to edit or add content to this heading. →

2 Ne 3: Types and shadows. Lehi blesses his son Joseph by telling him of Joseph of old who prophesied of Moses and the latter-day Joseph. Presumably this blessing to Joseph was more than just information. Presumably it gave him something he could use in his own life. In addition, it compares Moses and Joseph Smith in a way that helps us understand each better. Is this use of types and shadows the way that we are to apply the scriptures to ourselves? Of what types do we see shadows in today’s world?

2 Ne 3:1, 3: Why does Lehi make it a point to keep reminding Joseph that he was born during the time of Lehi's greatest afflictions?

2 Ne 3:5: To what degree has this prophecy been fulfilled? If you think it is still being fulfilled, what would it take for it to be completed?

2 Ne 3:5: Are the latter days mentioned in the prophecy of Joseph referring to the time that Christ visited the Nephites after His resurrection, or to some future time when He will gather in the Lamanites, or both, or some other time and event?

2 Ne 3:5: What is meant by "the spirit of power," why does this not just say "power," what is the difference?

2 Ne 3:7-8: Whom are these verses about? What does it mean to say “he shall do no other work, save the work which I shall command him"?

2 Ne 3:9: Great like unto Moses. In what ways was Moses great? How does the delivering role of the seer being described here relate to the bringing forth of the word and convincing in verse 11ff?

2 Ne 3:11: Why is Joseph Smith here described as a seer rather than a prophet? (How do the two differ, or do they?)

2 Ne 3:17: How were the ancient Joseph and Moses the same? What is the significance of a rod? What rod did Joseph Smith have?

2 Ne 3:18: How many spokesmen did Joseph Smith have? How does the fact that he had more than one cohere with this verse? What does this tell us about prophecy?

2 Ne 3:23: What does it mean to say that Lehi’s son Joseph is blessed because of the covenant? How is he blessed? Why is it an important blessing to know that your descendants many generations hence will not be destroyed?

Suggested answer: As a possible answer, see D&C 107:42 and Abraham 1:4.

This section is for listing links and print resources, including those that are also cited elsewhere on this page. A short comment about the particular strengths of a resource can be helpful. Click the link above and to the right to edit or add content to this heading. →

Footnotes are not required but are encouraged for factual assertions that average readers cannot easily evaluate for themselves (such as the date of King Solomon’s death or the nuanced definition of a Greek word). In contrast, insights rarely benefit from footnoting, and the focus of this page should always remain on the scriptures themselves rather than what someone has said about them. Links are actively encouraged on all sections of this page, and links to authoritative sources (such as Strong's Bible Concordance or the Joseph Smith Papers) are preferable to footnotes.

This section is for detailed discussion such as the meaning of a symbol, how a doctrinal point is developed throughout a passage, or insights that can be further developed in the future. Contributions may range from polished paragraphs down to a single bullet point. The focus, however, should always be on understanding the scriptural text consistent with LDS doctrine. Click the link above and to the right to edit or add content to this heading. →

2 Ne 3:5-17. These verses are closely aligned with JST Genesis 50:25-35 (though not always word-for-word; it appears that Lehi is mixing paraphrase, quotation, and explication). However, v. 18 has no parallel in JST Genesis 50, and the sole subsequent verse in JST Genesis that quotes Joseph has no parallel in 2 Ne 3. This suggests that in v. 18 Lehi is speaking for himself again: "And the Lord said unto me [Lehi] also [in addition to Joseph of Egypt]: I will raise up unto the fruit of thy [Lehi's] loins" etc.

2 Ne 3:24. This verse has sometimes been interpreted that there will be a great prophet from the descendants of Lehi's son Joseph. Others interpret this as another reference to Joseph Smith, since the rest of the chapter seems to talk very clearly about Joseph Smith. As we read the verses carefully, it is important to note that Lehi does break the narrative to address his son Joseph in verse 23. However, this does not confirm that the "one mighty among them" will be from the seed of Joseph (Lehi's son). Verses 22-23 can be read parenthetically: Lehi pauses the story to tell his son that his seed will be among those who will accept the Book of Mormon translated by Joseph Smith. Verse 24 is a repetition or clarification of the prophecies of Joseph now told in his own words. This reading is strengthened by the words "do that thing which is great." This is referring to some "thing" not mentioned in verses 23-24; presumably, Lehi is referencing the events already described by Joseph as "great" (see verse 7: "of great worth," verse 8: "great in mine eyes," verse 9: "great like unto Moses"). Lehi also describes this person as "mighty." See verse 14, from Joseph's prophecy: "they that seek to destroy him shall be confounded." In verse 24 Lehi also mentions that this great thing will aid in the "restoration unto the house of Israel." See also a reference to Joseph Smith and the House of Israel in verse 13. While it is possible that another prophet from Lehi's son Joseph will also fit this model, it is also appropriate, upon a close reading of the chapter, to read verse 24 as referring to Joseph Smith.

This section is for questions along the lines of "I still don't understand ..." Please do not be shy. The point of these questions is to identify things that still need to be addressed on this page. Click the link above and to the right to edit or add content to this heading. →

This section is for prompts that suggest ways in which a passage can influence a person's life. Prompts may be appropriate either for private self reflection or for a class discussion. Click the link above and to the right to edit or add content to this heading. →

This section is for prompts that invite us to think about a passage more deeply or in a new way. These are not necessarily questions that beg for answers, but rather prompts along the lines of "Have you ever thought about ..." Prompts are most helpful when they are developed individually, thoughtfully, and with enough background information to clearly indicate a particular direction for further study or thought. Click the link above and to the right to edit or add content to this heading. →

2 Ne 3: Types and shadows. Lehi blesses his son Joseph by telling him of Joseph of old who prophesied of Moses and the latter-day Joseph. Presumably this blessing to Joseph was more than just information. Presumably it gave him something he could use in his own life. In addition, it compares Moses and Joseph Smith in a way that helps us understand each better. Is this use of types and shadows the way that we are to apply the scriptures to ourselves? Of what types do we see shadows in today’s world?

2 Ne 3:1, 3: Why does Lehi make it a point to keep reminding Joseph that he was born during the time of Lehi's greatest afflictions?

2 Ne 3:5: To what degree has this prophecy been fulfilled? If you think it is still being fulfilled, what would it take for it to be completed?

2 Ne 3:5: Are the latter days mentioned in the prophecy of Joseph referring to the time that Christ visited the Nephites after His resurrection, or to some future time when He will gather in the Lamanites, or both, or some other time and event?

2 Ne 3:5: What is meant by "the spirit of power," why does this not just say "power," what is the difference?

2 Ne 3:7-8: Whom are these verses about? What does it mean to say “he shall do no other work, save the work which I shall command him"?

2 Ne 3:9: Great like unto Moses. In what ways was Moses great? How does the delivering role of the seer being described here relate to the bringing forth of the word and convincing in verse 11ff?

2 Ne 3:11: Why is Joseph Smith here described as a seer rather than a prophet? (How do the two differ, or do they?)

2 Ne 3:17: How were the ancient Joseph and Moses the same? What is the significance of a rod? What rod did Joseph Smith have?

2 Ne 3:18: How many spokesmen did Joseph Smith have? How does the fact that he had more than one cohere with this verse? What does this tell us about prophecy?

2 Ne 3:23: What does it mean to say that Lehi’s son Joseph is blessed because of the covenant? How is he blessed? Why is it an important blessing to know that your descendants many generations hence will not be destroyed?

Suggested answer: As a possible answer, see D&C 107:42 and Abraham 1:4.

This section is for listing links and print resources, including those that are also cited elsewhere on this page. A short comment about the particular strengths of a resource can be helpful. Click the link above and to the right to edit or add content to this heading. →

Footnotes are not required but are encouraged for factual assertions that average readers cannot easily evaluate for themselves (such as the date of King Solomon’s death or the nuanced definition of a Greek word). In contrast, insights rarely benefit from footnoting, and the focus of this page should always remain on the scriptures themselves rather than what someone has said about them. Links are actively encouraged on all sections of this page, and links to authoritative sources (such as Strong's Bible Concordance or the Joseph Smith Papers) are preferable to footnotes.

This section is for detailed discussion such as the meaning of a symbol, how a doctrinal point is developed throughout a passage, or insights that can be further developed in the future. Contributions may range from polished paragraphs down to a single bullet point. The focus, however, should always be on understanding the scriptural text consistent with LDS doctrine. Click the link above and to the right to edit or add content to this heading. →

2 Ne 4:6: Cursing. The curse the Lamanites are given is sometimes understood to principally refer to a darker skin color. But, as a physical curse referring to skin color Lehi's statement "that the cursing may be taken from you and be answered upon the heads of your parents" wouldn't make much sense. If instead we interpret the curse as spiritual--for example, if not having the gospel truths is itself a curse--then Lehi's statement here makes sense.

This section is for questions along the lines of "I still don't understand ..." Please do not be shy. The point of these questions is to identify things that still need to be addressed on this page. Click the link above and to the right to edit or add content to this heading. →

This section is for prompts that suggest ways in which a passage can influence a person's life. Prompts may be appropriate either for private self reflection or for a class discussion. Click the link above and to the right to edit or add content to this heading. →

This section is for prompts that invite us to think about a passage more deeply or in a new way. These are not necessarily questions that beg for answers, but rather prompts along the lines of "Have you ever thought about ..." Prompts are most helpful when they are developed individually, thoughtfully, and with enough background information to clearly indicate a particular direction for further study or thought. Click the link above and to the right to edit or add content to this heading. →

2 Ne 4:2: Are we to understand that the brass plates were not full when Lehi received them, i.e. there was room left to write more? Or did they add plates to the plates of brass? If this is the case, what does this say about the nature and boundary of sacred text in Lehi's time, place, or just in his own family? Did Lehi's writings become **part of** the plates of brass, to be understood as equally sacred and/or authoritative as the rest?

2 Ne 4:5: How should we interpret Lehi's statement to the children of Laman "I know that if you are brought up in the way ye should go ye will not depart from it"? Does Lehi mean that he knows that this is a characteristic specifically of these grandchildren? Or is he stating this as a general rule (like Prov 22:6)--generally true despite the exceptions?

2 Ne 4:10: Why does Nephi include information about Lehi's speaking to the sons of Ishmael? Why would this matter? Is it only a matter of completeness, to let the reader know that Lehi did in fact speak to everybody in his family before his death, even if what was said is not worth writing down? If this is so, why is there no mention of any words directed specifically to Nephi?

This section is for listing links and print resources, including those that are also cited elsewhere on this page. A short comment about the particular strengths of a resource can be helpful. Click the link above and to the right to edit or add content to this heading. →

Footnotes are not required but are encouraged for factual assertions that average readers cannot easily evaluate for themselves (such as the date of King Solomon’s death or the nuanced definition of a Greek word). In contrast, insights rarely benefit from footnoting, and the focus of this page should always remain on the scriptures themselves rather than what someone has said about them. Links are actively encouraged on all sections of this page, and links to authoritative sources (such as Strong's Bible Concordance or the Joseph Smith Papers) are preferable to footnotes.

This section is for detailed discussion such as the meaning of a symbol, how a doctrinal point is developed throughout a passage, or insights that can be further developed in the future. Contributions may range from polished paragraphs down to a single bullet point. The focus, however, should always be on understanding the scriptural text consistent with LDS doctrine. Click the link above and to the right to edit or add content to this heading. →

2 Ne 4:6: Cursing. The curse the Lamanites are given is sometimes understood to principally refer to a darker skin color. But, as a physical curse referring to skin color Lehi's statement "that the cursing may be taken from you and be answered upon the heads of your parents" wouldn't make much sense. If instead we interpret the curse as spiritual--for example, if not having the gospel truths is itself a curse--then Lehi's statement here makes sense.

This section is for questions along the lines of "I still don't understand ..." Please do not be shy. The point of these questions is to identify things that still need to be addressed on this page. Click the link above and to the right to edit or add content to this heading. →

This section is for prompts that suggest ways in which a passage can influence a person's life. Prompts may be appropriate either for private self reflection or for a class discussion. Click the link above and to the right to edit or add content to this heading. →

This section is for prompts that invite us to think about a passage more deeply or in a new way. These are not necessarily questions that beg for answers, but rather prompts along the lines of "Have you ever thought about ..." Prompts are most helpful when they are developed individually, thoughtfully, and with enough background information to clearly indicate a particular direction for further study or thought. Click the link above and to the right to edit or add content to this heading. →

2 Ne 4:2: Are we to understand that the brass plates were not full when Lehi received them, i.e. there was room left to write more? Or did they add plates to the plates of brass? If this is the case, what does this say about the nature and boundary of sacred text in Lehi's time, place, or just in his own family? Did Lehi's writings become **part of** the plates of brass, to be understood as equally sacred and/or authoritative as the rest?

2 Ne 4:5: How should we interpret Lehi's statement to the children of Laman "I know that if you are brought up in the way ye should go ye will not depart from it"? Does Lehi mean that he knows that this is a characteristic specifically of these grandchildren? Or is he stating this as a general rule (like Prov 22:6)--generally true despite the exceptions?

2 Ne 4:10: Why does Nephi include information about Lehi's speaking to the sons of Ishmael? Why would this matter? Is it only a matter of completeness, to let the reader know that Lehi did in fact speak to everybody in his family before his death, even if what was said is not worth writing down? If this is so, why is there no mention of any words directed specifically to Nephi?

This section is for listing links and print resources, including those that are also cited elsewhere on this page. A short comment about the particular strengths of a resource can be helpful. Click the link above and to the right to edit or add content to this heading. →

Footnotes are not required but are encouraged for factual assertions that average readers cannot easily evaluate for themselves (such as the date of King Solomon’s death or the nuanced definition of a Greek word). In contrast, insights rarely benefit from footnoting, and the focus of this page should always remain on the scriptures themselves rather than what someone has said about them. Links are actively encouraged on all sections of this page, and links to authoritative sources (such as Strong's Bible Concordance or the Joseph Smith Papers) are preferable to footnotes.

This section is for detailed discussion such as the meaning of a symbol, how a doctrinal point is developed throughout a passage, or insights that can be further developed in the future. Contributions may range from polished paragraphs down to a single bullet point. The focus, however, should always be on understanding the scriptural text consistent with LDS doctrine. Click the link above and to the right to edit or add content to this heading. →

Outline. Verses 16-35 bear such a striking resemblance to the style and structure of the biblical poetic writings that the section is often referred to as the "Psalm of Nephi." For an analysis of similarities to Hebrew poetry, see the article by Steven Barton.

Verses 16-17 open the first stanza of the Psalm of Nephi. The unit appears to be a series of 3 couplets organized in chiastic form.

A.Behold, my soul delighteth in the things of the Lord;B.And my heart pondereth continually upon the things which I have seen and heard.

C.Nevertheless, notwithstanding the great goodness of the Lord, in showing me his great and marvelous works,c.My heart exclaimeth: O wretched man that I am!

This chiasm is a good example of the tendency to contrast antithetical
ideas when using chiastic form. Typically, the center point of a chiasm will
be the point at which an opposite idea is introduced.

Hence,

A. soul delighteth

B. heart pondereth

C. goodness of the Lord

is contrasted with:

c. wretched man

b. heart sorroweth

a. soul grieveth

Verses 18-20. If we ignore the arbitrary punctuation of Grandin and arrange the lines similar to a passage from the Psalms or Isaiah, the verses break out differently:

I am encompassed about, because of the temptations and the sins which do so easily beset me,

And when I desire to rejoice, my heart groaneth because of my sins.

Nevertheless, I know in whom I have trusted,

<i>My God hath been my support;

He hath led me through mine afflictions in the wilderness,

And he hath preserved me upon the waters of the great deep.

In some ways, the thought groupings and punctuation are stronger when arranged in this manner.

Hebraisms.

Regardless of what language Nephi used to transmit the "Psalm of Nephi," there are, in the passage, enough Hebraisms and similarities to Hebrew poetry to conjecture a Hebrew language original. When we conclude so, we can make some interesting observations.

Verses 21 and 22. The two lines are linked by parallel elements of syntax and morphology. The parallelism of Hebrew poetry often extends beyond a rhythm of thought and ideas to that of morphology, syntax, and phonetics, resemblances which tend to be less obvious, especially in translation.

He hath filled me with his love, even unto the consuming of my flesh.
He hath confounded mine enemies, unto the causing of them to quake before me.

If we translate the passage back into Hebrew, and arrange it into typical "verse" format, we observe that each line begins with the verb form "he hath" followed by a parallel in the Hebrew root aleph - yod - bet (enemy) with aleph - heh - bet (love). The two words have similar roots (in fact yod and heh are related root letters). The second half of each line begins with "unto" ("od" in the Hebrew) followed in the Hebrew by the infinitive construct verb form.

Thus vs 21b in Hebrew would read:
od kkelot bbesari</font>(compare Ruth 2:23).
In vs 22, the phrase "the causing of them to quake" is awkward in English, but brings to mind the hiphil "causative" verb form in the Hebrew.
Verse 22b in Hebrew might read:
od ham'idu mippanai (compare Ps 69:23) [an alternative choice would be od hacharidu mippanai (compare Ezek 30:9)].

When we stack these together the correspondences in the first clause of both lines become more evedent:

The parallel at the end of each line is not readily apparent in English, but the idiom for "before me" in Hebrew reads literally from my face, which draws a connection to "of my flesh" in the first line. The syntactic link is further bolstered by the personal posessive suffix yod affixed as the final character of both lines.

As interesting as these musings might be (to some), we are tempted to ask the question, "Does a poetic interpretation effect the message conveyed by the text?" If we establish a parallel between these two lines, the answer is yes, because then we are justified in viewing them as one thought unit:

He hath filled me with his love, even unto the consuming of my flesh.
He hath confounded mine enemies, unto the causing of them to quake before me.

As such, we have a much stronger statement than if the two lines were merely treated as successive lines among many others. As a unit, the verse has sharpercontrast. As a unit, the statement is more emphatic! The lines together would be understood as:

He has filled me such that I am completely consumed with his love,
But my enemies he has so confounded that they tremble with fear!

Heart and soul. For analysis of the terms heart and soul in these verses and elsewhere in the scriptures, see “Understanding Old Testament Poetry” by Kevin Barney in Ensign, June 1990, p. 51.

2 Ne 4:14: History. The word "history" appears in the Book of Mormon only in the small plates: three times in Nephi's two books, and three times in Jacob (1 Ne 9:2; 2 Ne 4:14; 2 Ne 5:33; Jacob Heading; 1:2, 3). In every case except this one, "history" refers to a string of events, rather than to a record of such events. What this particular phrase means here is complex at the very least: "a more history part."

2 Ne 4:14: A more history part. The phrase "a more history part" (verse 14) may mean, in more modern language "the more historical part." In that case Nephi is saying that the more historical part of what Nephi has to record is recorded on his other plates.

2 Ne 4:26-37. In verse 26 and 27 Nephi asks himself several questions about his own weaknesses. He asks why he is so depressed given the mercy he knows the Lord shows his children. He asks why he yields to sin. He asks why he is angry at his enemy. All of these are failings he recognizes in himself. In short he asks himself why he isn't better than he is. Instead of addressing these questions directly Nephi does two things. First he addresses himself in the imperative in relation to these questions. (For example, to the question of why he is depressed, he says to himself "rejoice;" and to the question of why he is angry at his enemy he says to himself "do not anger because of mine enemies.") Second, Nephi asks the Lord to make him better (see verses 31-35).

This section is for questions along the lines of "I still don't understand ..." Please do not be shy. The point of these questions is to identify things that still need to be addressed on this page. Click the link above and to the right to edit or add content to this heading. →

This section is for prompts that suggest ways in which a passage can influence a person's life. Prompts may be appropriate either for private self reflection or for a class discussion. Click the link above and to the right to edit or add content to this heading. →

This section is for prompts that invite us to think about a passage more deeply or in a new way. These are not necessarily questions that beg for answers, but rather prompts along the lines of "Have you ever thought about ..." Prompts are most helpful when they are developed individually, thoughtfully, and with enough background information to clearly indicate a particular direction for further study or thought. Click the link above and to the right to edit or add content to this heading. →

2 Ne 4:15-16: Motivation to ponder. What makes Nephi begin to think about the scriptures? What has just happened that motivates verse 15? What are “the things of the Lord” (v. 16)? Surely a good part of what Nephi means has already been mentioned in verse 15, namely the scriptures. But what else might he have in mind?

2 Ne 4:16: Heart pondereth. The definition of Ponder is "To weigh in the mind; to consider and compare the circumstances or consequences of an event, or the importance of the reasons for or against a decision." My question is what is the significance of the heart. I read that the heart was beleive to be a symbol of thought in ancient time. I read that in "Lost lannguage of Symbolism" by Alonzo Gaskill. I cannot remember the exact quote because the book is packed, but why is he pondering in his heart? Is the heart more spiritual than the mind? Can the heart feel more confirmation of the spirit than the mind. I know that is what is stated in the D&C that you will feel it in your heart and then your mind. If you think about it though, how much does our heart know that our mind doesn't quite grasp yet? Is that the begining of faith? Do we feel it in our hearts and then the confirmation in the mind can come weeks or even months later? Is that how a person can say that they beleive in the word of wisdom and then later gain a full understanding of its importance when they see the blessings work in their life? To me it is as though when the spirit speaks to your heart you have faith and then the confirmation to the mind or detailed instructions or understanding may come later. (I don't know if these comments are right for this page but I thought I would but them here for now.)

I don't think Luke 2:19 really addressed the heart (...) of your question. Instead, I'll try to post some thoughts on Deut 6:5 which I think will be more relevant to this distinction between heart and mind. I think our modern view is very different than the ancient Hebrew one which I'm assuming Nephi inherited (which is very different I think than the Greek view--maybe I'll post something about this on Mark 12:30 too where Deut 6:5 is quoted...).

2 Ne 4:17-18: Why does Nephi, of all people, grieve about his iniquities? What is the connection between seeing the goodness of the Lord and grieving about one’s iniquities? What does Nephi’s grief teach us? What iniquities might Nephi have had? Given the context, what sins might he have found particularly tempting? Do verses 13 and 27-29 suggest and answer to this question?

2 Ne 4:19: Here we see Nephi turn from grief, in the beginning of the verse, to hope, in the end. What does the change we see happening in this verse tell us about our own sorrows? Is sorrow or guilt bad? What is the difference between Nephi’s sorrow and harmful sorrow? Compare 2 Cor 7:10. What is the sorrow to death? When do we find ourselves in the kind of sorrow Nephi experiencing? If someone is experiencing the sorrow to death rather than the sorrow to life, how can that change?

2 Ne 4:19: Is Nephi telling us something profound when he concludes his confessions with the statement "I know in whom I have trusted"? Is Nephi saying that it wasn't enough just to trust? Was the key for him the knowing of the being in whom he was trusting? If so, does Nephi make this confident declaration because he has been visited of the Lord (see 1 Ne. 2:16)? If that is the case, what hope do the rest of us for really getting to know the divine being that we want to trust?

2 Ne 4:20-25: What things is Nephi grateful for? Can you draw specific parallels to the things we should be thankful for? Are these some of the “things of the Lord,” mentioned in v. 16? How does memory serve Nephi in this verse? How ought it to serve us?

2 Ne 4:26-30: What is Nephi’s answer to the troubles he has? to his weakness in the face of temptation, for example? Why is “enemy” singular in verse 27 and plural in verse 29? When did Nephi’s soul “droop in sin"? What was that sin?

2 Ne 4:31-35: Why does this psalm of Nephi end in a prayer? In our more ordinary terms, what are the things Nephi prays for?

2 Ne 4:32: Since obedience seems to be what I do rather than what the Lord does for me, what does it mean to pray to be obedient?

2 Ne 4:33: What does it mean to be encircled in the robes of the Lord’s righteousness? (Compare Isa 61:10 and Baruch 5:2. Baruch is in the Apocrypha.) What surrounded Nephi in 18?

2 Ne 4:34: Is there a significant difference between faith in God and trust in God? What does it mean to trust in the arm of flesh? When might we find ourselves doing that?

2 Ne 4:35: Compare this verse to James 1:5. What might Joseph Smith have thought as he translated this verse?

This section is for listing links and print resources, including those that are also cited elsewhere on this page. A short comment about the particular strengths of a resource can be helpful. Click the link above and to the right to edit or add content to this heading. →

2 Ne 4:33: Encircle me around. See this post by Kevin Barney at the BCC blog on "Ritual Embraces and the Atonement" for a discussion linking the phrase "encircle me around" with the idea and etymology of atonement (kaphar).

Footnotes are not required but are encouraged for factual assertions that average readers cannot easily evaluate for themselves (such as the date of King Solomon’s death or the nuanced definition of a Greek word). In contrast, insights rarely benefit from footnoting, and the focus of this page should always remain on the scriptures themselves rather than what someone has said about them. Links are actively encouraged on all sections of this page, and links to authoritative sources (such as Strong's Bible Concordance or the Joseph Smith Papers) are preferable to footnotes.

This section is for detailed discussion such as the meaning of a symbol, how a doctrinal point is developed throughout a passage, or insights that can be further developed in the future. Contributions may range from polished paragraphs down to a single bullet point. The focus, however, should always be on understanding the scriptural text consistent with LDS doctrine. Click the link above and to the right to edit or add content to this heading. →

Outline. Verses 16-35 bear such a striking resemblance to the style and structure of the biblical poetic writings that the section is often referred to as the "Psalm of Nephi." For an analysis of similarities to Hebrew poetry, see the article by Steven Barton.

Verses 16-17 open the first stanza of the Psalm of Nephi. The unit appears to be a series of 3 couplets organized in chiastic form.

A.Behold, my soul delighteth in the things of the Lord;B.And my heart pondereth continually upon the things which I have seen and heard.

C.Nevertheless, notwithstanding the great goodness of the Lord, in showing me his great and marvelous works,c.My heart exclaimeth: O wretched man that I am!

This chiasm is a good example of the tendency to contrast antithetical
ideas when using chiastic form. Typically, the center point of a chiasm will
be the point at which an opposite idea is introduced.

Hence,

A. soul delighteth

B. heart pondereth

C. goodness of the Lord

is contrasted with:

c. wretched man

b. heart sorroweth

a. soul grieveth

Verses 18-20. If we ignore the arbitrary punctuation of Grandin and arrange the lines similar to a passage from the Psalms or Isaiah, the verses break out differently:

I am encompassed about, because of the temptations and the sins which do so easily beset me,

And when I desire to rejoice, my heart groaneth because of my sins.

Nevertheless, I know in whom I have trusted,

<i>My God hath been my support;

He hath led me through mine afflictions in the wilderness,

And he hath preserved me upon the waters of the great deep.

In some ways, the thought groupings and punctuation are stronger when arranged in this manner.

Hebraisms.

Regardless of what language Nephi used to transmit the "Psalm of Nephi," there are, in the passage, enough Hebraisms and similarities to Hebrew poetry to conjecture a Hebrew language original. When we conclude so, we can make some interesting observations.

Verses 21 and 22. The two lines are linked by parallel elements of syntax and morphology. The parallelism of Hebrew poetry often extends beyond a rhythm of thought and ideas to that of morphology, syntax, and phonetics, resemblances which tend to be less obvious, especially in translation.

He hath filled me with his love, even unto the consuming of my flesh.
He hath confounded mine enemies, unto the causing of them to quake before me.

If we translate the passage back into Hebrew, and arrange it into typical "verse" format, we observe that each line begins with the verb form "he hath" followed by a parallel in the Hebrew root aleph - yod - bet (enemy) with aleph - heh - bet (love). The two words have similar roots (in fact yod and heh are related root letters). The second half of each line begins with "unto" ("od" in the Hebrew) followed in the Hebrew by the infinitive construct verb form.

Thus vs 21b in Hebrew would read:
od kkelot bbesari</font>(compare Ruth 2:23).
In vs 22, the phrase "the causing of them to quake" is awkward in English, but brings to mind the hiphil "causative" verb form in the Hebrew.
Verse 22b in Hebrew might read:
od ham'idu mippanai (compare Ps 69:23) [an alternative choice would be od hacharidu mippanai (compare Ezek 30:9)].

When we stack these together the correspondences in the first clause of both lines become more evedent:

The parallel at the end of each line is not readily apparent in English, but the idiom for "before me" in Hebrew reads literally from my face, which draws a connection to "of my flesh" in the first line. The syntactic link is further bolstered by the personal posessive suffix yod affixed as the final character of both lines.

As interesting as these musings might be (to some), we are tempted to ask the question, "Does a poetic interpretation effect the message conveyed by the text?" If we establish a parallel between these two lines, the answer is yes, because then we are justified in viewing them as one thought unit:

He hath filled me with his love, even unto the consuming of my flesh.
He hath confounded mine enemies, unto the causing of them to quake before me.

As such, we have a much stronger statement than if the two lines were merely treated as successive lines among many others. As a unit, the verse has sharpercontrast. As a unit, the statement is more emphatic! The lines together would be understood as:

He has filled me such that I am completely consumed with his love,
But my enemies he has so confounded that they tremble with fear!

Heart and soul. For analysis of the terms heart and soul in these verses and elsewhere in the scriptures, see “Understanding Old Testament Poetry” by Kevin Barney in Ensign, June 1990, p. 51.

2 Ne 4:14: History. The word "history" appears in the Book of Mormon only in the small plates: three times in Nephi's two books, and three times in Jacob (1 Ne 9:2; 2 Ne 4:14; 2 Ne 5:33; Jacob Heading; 1:2, 3). In every case except this one, "history" refers to a string of events, rather than to a record of such events. What this particular phrase means here is complex at the very least: "a more history part."

2 Ne 4:14: A more history part. The phrase "a more history part" (verse 14) may mean, in more modern language "the more historical part." In that case Nephi is saying that the more historical part of what Nephi has to record is recorded on his other plates.

2 Ne 4:26-37. In verse 26 and 27 Nephi asks himself several questions about his own weaknesses. He asks why he is so depressed given the mercy he knows the Lord shows his children. He asks why he yields to sin. He asks why he is angry at his enemy. All of these are failings he recognizes in himself. In short he asks himself why he isn't better than he is. Instead of addressing these questions directly Nephi does two things. First he addresses himself in the imperative in relation to these questions. (For example, to the question of why he is depressed, he says to himself "rejoice;" and to the question of why he is angry at his enemy he says to himself "do not anger because of mine enemies.") Second, Nephi asks the Lord to make him better (see verses 31-35).

This section is for questions along the lines of "I still don't understand ..." Please do not be shy. The point of these questions is to identify things that still need to be addressed on this page. Click the link above and to the right to edit or add content to this heading. →

This section is for prompts that suggest ways in which a passage can influence a person's life. Prompts may be appropriate either for private self reflection or for a class discussion. Click the link above and to the right to edit or add content to this heading. →

This section is for prompts that invite us to think about a passage more deeply or in a new way. These are not necessarily questions that beg for answers, but rather prompts along the lines of "Have you ever thought about ..." Prompts are most helpful when they are developed individually, thoughtfully, and with enough background information to clearly indicate a particular direction for further study or thought. Click the link above and to the right to edit or add content to this heading. →

2 Ne 4:15-16: Motivation to ponder. What makes Nephi begin to think about the scriptures? What has just happened that motivates verse 15? What are “the things of the Lord” (v. 16)? Surely a good part of what Nephi means has already been mentioned in verse 15, namely the scriptures. But what else might he have in mind?

2 Ne 4:16: Heart pondereth. The definition of Ponder is "To weigh in the mind; to consider and compare the circumstances or consequences of an event, or the importance of the reasons for or against a decision." My question is what is the significance of the heart. I read that the heart was beleive to be a symbol of thought in ancient time. I read that in "Lost lannguage of Symbolism" by Alonzo Gaskill. I cannot remember the exact quote because the book is packed, but why is he pondering in his heart? Is the heart more spiritual than the mind? Can the heart feel more confirmation of the spirit than the mind. I know that is what is stated in the D&C that you will feel it in your heart and then your mind. If you think about it though, how much does our heart know that our mind doesn't quite grasp yet? Is that the begining of faith? Do we feel it in our hearts and then the confirmation in the mind can come weeks or even months later? Is that how a person can say that they beleive in the word of wisdom and then later gain a full understanding of its importance when they see the blessings work in their life? To me it is as though when the spirit speaks to your heart you have faith and then the confirmation to the mind or detailed instructions or understanding may come later. (I don't know if these comments are right for this page but I thought I would but them here for now.)

I don't think Luke 2:19 really addressed the heart (...) of your question. Instead, I'll try to post some thoughts on Deut 6:5 which I think will be more relevant to this distinction between heart and mind. I think our modern view is very different than the ancient Hebrew one which I'm assuming Nephi inherited (which is very different I think than the Greek view--maybe I'll post something about this on Mark 12:30 too where Deut 6:5 is quoted...).

2 Ne 4:17-18: Why does Nephi, of all people, grieve about his iniquities? What is the connection between seeing the goodness of the Lord and grieving about one’s iniquities? What does Nephi’s grief teach us? What iniquities might Nephi have had? Given the context, what sins might he have found particularly tempting? Do verses 13 and 27-29 suggest and answer to this question?

2 Ne 4:19: Here we see Nephi turn from grief, in the beginning of the verse, to hope, in the end. What does the change we see happening in this verse tell us about our own sorrows? Is sorrow or guilt bad? What is the difference between Nephi’s sorrow and harmful sorrow? Compare 2 Cor 7:10. What is the sorrow to death? When do we find ourselves in the kind of sorrow Nephi experiencing? If someone is experiencing the sorrow to death rather than the sorrow to life, how can that change?

2 Ne 4:19: Is Nephi telling us something profound when he concludes his confessions with the statement "I know in whom I have trusted"? Is Nephi saying that it wasn't enough just to trust? Was the key for him the knowing of the being in whom he was trusting? If so, does Nephi make this confident declaration because he has been visited of the Lord (see 1 Ne. 2:16)? If that is the case, what hope do the rest of us for really getting to know the divine being that we want to trust?

2 Ne 4:20-25: What things is Nephi grateful for? Can you draw specific parallels to the things we should be thankful for? Are these some of the “things of the Lord,” mentioned in v. 16? How does memory serve Nephi in this verse? How ought it to serve us?

2 Ne 4:26-30: What is Nephi’s answer to the troubles he has? to his weakness in the face of temptation, for example? Why is “enemy” singular in verse 27 and plural in verse 29? When did Nephi’s soul “droop in sin"? What was that sin?

2 Ne 4:31-35: Why does this psalm of Nephi end in a prayer? In our more ordinary terms, what are the things Nephi prays for?

2 Ne 4:32: Since obedience seems to be what I do rather than what the Lord does for me, what does it mean to pray to be obedient?

2 Ne 4:33: What does it mean to be encircled in the robes of the Lord’s righteousness? (Compare Isa 61:10 and Baruch 5:2. Baruch is in the Apocrypha.) What surrounded Nephi in 18?

2 Ne 4:34: Is there a significant difference between faith in God and trust in God? What does it mean to trust in the arm of flesh? When might we find ourselves doing that?

2 Ne 4:35: Compare this verse to James 1:5. What might Joseph Smith have thought as he translated this verse?

This section is for listing links and print resources, including those that are also cited elsewhere on this page. A short comment about the particular strengths of a resource can be helpful. Click the link above and to the right to edit or add content to this heading. →

2 Ne 4:33: Encircle me around. See this post by Kevin Barney at the BCC blog on "Ritual Embraces and the Atonement" for a discussion linking the phrase "encircle me around" with the idea and etymology of atonement (kaphar).

Footnotes are not required but are encouraged for factual assertions that average readers cannot easily evaluate for themselves (such as the date of King Solomon’s death or the nuanced definition of a Greek word). In contrast, insights rarely benefit from footnoting, and the focus of this page should always remain on the scriptures themselves rather than what someone has said about them. Links are actively encouraged on all sections of this page, and links to authoritative sources (such as Strong's Bible Concordance or the Joseph Smith Papers) are preferable to footnotes.

This section is for detailed discussion such as the meaning of a symbol, how a doctrinal point is developed throughout a passage, or insights that can be further developed in the future. Contributions may range from polished paragraphs down to a single bullet point. The focus, however, should always be on understanding the scriptural text consistent with LDS doctrine. Click the link above and to the right to edit or add content to this heading. →

Outline. Verses 16-35 bear such a striking resemblance to the style and structure of the biblical poetic writings that the section is often referred to as the "Psalm of Nephi." For an analysis of similarities to Hebrew poetry, see the article by Steven Barton.

Verses 16-17 open the first stanza of the Psalm of Nephi. The unit appears to be a series of 3 couplets organized in chiastic form.

A.Behold, my soul delighteth in the things of the Lord;B.And my heart pondereth continually upon the things which I have seen and heard.

C.Nevertheless, notwithstanding the great goodness of the Lord, in showing me his great and marvelous works,c.My heart exclaimeth: O wretched man that I am!

This chiasm is a good example of the tendency to contrast antithetical
ideas when using chiastic form. Typically, the center point of a chiasm will
be the point at which an opposite idea is introduced.

Hence,

A. soul delighteth

B. heart pondereth

C. goodness of the Lord

is contrasted with:

c. wretched man

b. heart sorroweth

a. soul grieveth

Verses 18-20. If we ignore the arbitrary punctuation of Grandin and arrange the lines similar to a passage from the Psalms or Isaiah, the verses break out differently:

I am encompassed about, because of the temptations and the sins which do so easily beset me,

And when I desire to rejoice, my heart groaneth because of my sins.

Nevertheless, I know in whom I have trusted,

<i>My God hath been my support;

He hath led me through mine afflictions in the wilderness,

And he hath preserved me upon the waters of the great deep.

In some ways, the thought groupings and punctuation are stronger when arranged in this manner.

Hebraisms.

Regardless of what language Nephi used to transmit the "Psalm of Nephi," there are, in the passage, enough Hebraisms and similarities to Hebrew poetry to conjecture a Hebrew language original. When we conclude so, we can make some interesting observations.

Verses 21 and 22. The two lines are linked by parallel elements of syntax and morphology. The parallelism of Hebrew poetry often extends beyond a rhythm of thought and ideas to that of morphology, syntax, and phonetics, resemblances which tend to be less obvious, especially in translation.

He hath filled me with his love, even unto the consuming of my flesh.
He hath confounded mine enemies, unto the causing of them to quake before me.

If we translate the passage back into Hebrew, and arrange it into typical "verse" format, we observe that each line begins with the verb form "he hath" followed by a parallel in the Hebrew root aleph - yod - bet (enemy) with aleph - heh - bet (love). The two words have similar roots (in fact yod and heh are related root letters). The second half of each line begins with "unto" ("od" in the Hebrew) followed in the Hebrew by the infinitive construct verb form.

Thus vs 21b in Hebrew would read:
od kkelot bbesari</font>(compare Ruth 2:23).
In vs 22, the phrase "the causing of them to quake" is awkward in English, but brings to mind the hiphil "causative" verb form in the Hebrew.
Verse 22b in Hebrew might read:
od ham'idu mippanai (compare Ps 69:23) [an alternative choice would be od hacharidu mippanai (compare Ezek 30:9)].

When we stack these together the correspondences in the first clause of both lines become more evedent:

The parallel at the end of each line is not readily apparent in English, but the idiom for "before me" in Hebrew reads literally from my face, which draws a connection to "of my flesh" in the first line. The syntactic link is further bolstered by the personal posessive suffix yod affixed as the final character of both lines.

As interesting as these musings might be (to some), we are tempted to ask the question, "Does a poetic interpretation effect the message conveyed by the text?" If we establish a parallel between these two lines, the answer is yes, because then we are justified in viewing them as one thought unit:

He hath filled me with his love, even unto the consuming of my flesh.
He hath confounded mine enemies, unto the causing of them to quake before me.

As such, we have a much stronger statement than if the two lines were merely treated as successive lines among many others. As a unit, the verse has sharpercontrast. As a unit, the statement is more emphatic! The lines together would be understood as:

He has filled me such that I am completely consumed with his love,
But my enemies he has so confounded that they tremble with fear!

Heart and soul. For analysis of the terms heart and soul in these verses and elsewhere in the scriptures, see “Understanding Old Testament Poetry” by Kevin Barney in Ensign, June 1990, p. 51.

2 Ne 4:14: History. The word "history" appears in the Book of Mormon only in the small plates: three times in Nephi's two books, and three times in Jacob (1 Ne 9:2; 2 Ne 4:14; 2 Ne 5:33; Jacob Heading; 1:2, 3). In every case except this one, "history" refers to a string of events, rather than to a record of such events. What this particular phrase means here is complex at the very least: "a more history part."

2 Ne 4:14: A more history part. The phrase "a more history part" (verse 14) may mean, in more modern language "the more historical part." In that case Nephi is saying that the more historical part of what Nephi has to record is recorded on his other plates.

2 Ne 4:26-37. In verse 26 and 27 Nephi asks himself several questions about his own weaknesses. He asks why he is so depressed given the mercy he knows the Lord shows his children. He asks why he yields to sin. He asks why he is angry at his enemy. All of these are failings he recognizes in himself. In short he asks himself why he isn't better than he is. Instead of addressing these questions directly Nephi does two things. First he addresses himself in the imperative in relation to these questions. (For example, to the question of why he is depressed, he says to himself "rejoice;" and to the question of why he is angry at his enemy he says to himself "do not anger because of mine enemies.") Second, Nephi asks the Lord to make him better (see verses 31-35).

This section is for questions along the lines of "I still don't understand ..." Please do not be shy. The point of these questions is to identify things that still need to be addressed on this page. Click the link above and to the right to edit or add content to this heading. →

This section is for prompts that suggest ways in which a passage can influence a person's life. Prompts may be appropriate either for private self reflection or for a class discussion. Click the link above and to the right to edit or add content to this heading. →

This section is for prompts that invite us to think about a passage more deeply or in a new way. These are not necessarily questions that beg for answers, but rather prompts along the lines of "Have you ever thought about ..." Prompts are most helpful when they are developed individually, thoughtfully, and with enough background information to clearly indicate a particular direction for further study or thought. Click the link above and to the right to edit or add content to this heading. →

2 Ne 4:15-16: Motivation to ponder. What makes Nephi begin to think about the scriptures? What has just happened that motivates verse 15? What are “the things of the Lord” (v. 16)? Surely a good part of what Nephi means has already been mentioned in verse 15, namely the scriptures. But what else might he have in mind?

2 Ne 4:16: Heart pondereth. The definition of Ponder is "To weigh in the mind; to consider and compare the circumstances or consequences of an event, or the importance of the reasons for or against a decision." My question is what is the significance of the heart. I read that the heart was beleive to be a symbol of thought in ancient time. I read that in "Lost lannguage of Symbolism" by Alonzo Gaskill. I cannot remember the exact quote because the book is packed, but why is he pondering in his heart? Is the heart more spiritual than the mind? Can the heart feel more confirmation of the spirit than the mind. I know that is what is stated in the D&C that you will feel it in your heart and then your mind. If you think about it though, how much does our heart know that our mind doesn't quite grasp yet? Is that the begining of faith? Do we feel it in our hearts and then the confirmation in the mind can come weeks or even months later? Is that how a person can say that they beleive in the word of wisdom and then later gain a full understanding of its importance when they see the blessings work in their life? To me it is as though when the spirit speaks to your heart you have faith and then the confirmation to the mind or detailed instructions or understanding may come later. (I don't know if these comments are right for this page but I thought I would but them here for now.)

I don't think Luke 2:19 really addressed the heart (...) of your question. Instead, I'll try to post some thoughts on Deut 6:5 which I think will be more relevant to this distinction between heart and mind. I think our modern view is very different than the ancient Hebrew one which I'm assuming Nephi inherited (which is very different I think than the Greek view--maybe I'll post something about this on Mark 12:30 too where Deut 6:5 is quoted...).

2 Ne 4:17-18: Why does Nephi, of all people, grieve about his iniquities? What is the connection between seeing the goodness of the Lord and grieving about one’s iniquities? What does Nephi’s grief teach us? What iniquities might Nephi have had? Given the context, what sins might he have found particularly tempting? Do verses 13 and 27-29 suggest and answer to this question?

2 Ne 4:19: Here we see Nephi turn from grief, in the beginning of the verse, to hope, in the end. What does the change we see happening in this verse tell us about our own sorrows? Is sorrow or guilt bad? What is the difference between Nephi’s sorrow and harmful sorrow? Compare 2 Cor 7:10. What is the sorrow to death? When do we find ourselves in the kind of sorrow Nephi experiencing? If someone is experiencing the sorrow to death rather than the sorrow to life, how can that change?

2 Ne 4:19: Is Nephi telling us something profound when he concludes his confessions with the statement "I know in whom I have trusted"? Is Nephi saying that it wasn't enough just to trust? Was the key for him the knowing of the being in whom he was trusting? If so, does Nephi make this confident declaration because he has been visited of the Lord (see 1 Ne. 2:16)? If that is the case, what hope do the rest of us for really getting to know the divine being that we want to trust?

2 Ne 4:20-25: What things is Nephi grateful for? Can you draw specific parallels to the things we should be thankful for? Are these some of the “things of the Lord,” mentioned in v. 16? How does memory serve Nephi in this verse? How ought it to serve us?

2 Ne 4:26-30: What is Nephi’s answer to the troubles he has? to his weakness in the face of temptation, for example? Why is “enemy” singular in verse 27 and plural in verse 29? When did Nephi’s soul “droop in sin"? What was that sin?

2 Ne 4:31-35: Why does this psalm of Nephi end in a prayer? In our more ordinary terms, what are the things Nephi prays for?

2 Ne 4:32: Since obedience seems to be what I do rather than what the Lord does for me, what does it mean to pray to be obedient?

2 Ne 4:33: What does it mean to be encircled in the robes of the Lord’s righteousness? (Compare Isa 61:10 and Baruch 5:2. Baruch is in the Apocrypha.) What surrounded Nephi in 18?

2 Ne 4:34: Is there a significant difference between faith in God and trust in God? What does it mean to trust in the arm of flesh? When might we find ourselves doing that?

2 Ne 4:35: Compare this verse to James 1:5. What might Joseph Smith have thought as he translated this verse?

This section is for listing links and print resources, including those that are also cited elsewhere on this page. A short comment about the particular strengths of a resource can be helpful. Click the link above and to the right to edit or add content to this heading. →

2 Ne 4:33: Encircle me around. See this post by Kevin Barney at the BCC blog on "Ritual Embraces and the Atonement" for a discussion linking the phrase "encircle me around" with the idea and etymology of atonement (kaphar).

Footnotes are not required but are encouraged for factual assertions that average readers cannot easily evaluate for themselves (such as the date of King Solomon’s death or the nuanced definition of a Greek word). In contrast, insights rarely benefit from footnoting, and the focus of this page should always remain on the scriptures themselves rather than what someone has said about them. Links are actively encouraged on all sections of this page, and links to authoritative sources (such as Strong's Bible Concordance or the Joseph Smith Papers) are preferable to footnotes.

This section is for detailed discussion such as the meaning of a symbol, how a doctrinal point is developed throughout a passage, or insights that can be further developed in the future. Contributions may range from polished paragraphs down to a single bullet point. The focus, however, should always be on understanding the scriptural text consistent with LDS doctrine. Click the link above and to the right to edit or add content to this heading. →

Outline. Verses 16-35 bear such a striking resemblance to the style and structure of the biblical poetic writings that the section is often referred to as the "Psalm of Nephi." For an analysis of similarities to Hebrew poetry, see the article by Steven Barton.

Verses 16-17 open the first stanza of the Psalm of Nephi. The unit appears to be a series of 3 couplets organized in chiastic form.

A.Behold, my soul delighteth in the things of the Lord;B.And my heart pondereth continually upon the things which I have seen and heard.

C.Nevertheless, notwithstanding the great goodness of the Lord, in showing me his great and marvelous works,c.My heart exclaimeth: O wretched man that I am!

This chiasm is a good example of the tendency to contrast antithetical
ideas when using chiastic form. Typically, the center point of a chiasm will
be the point at which an opposite idea is introduced.

Hence,

A. soul delighteth

B. heart pondereth

C. goodness of the Lord

is contrasted with:

c. wretched man

b. heart sorroweth

a. soul grieveth

Verses 18-20. If we ignore the arbitrary punctuation of Grandin and arrange the lines similar to a passage from the Psalms or Isaiah, the verses break out differently:

I am encompassed about, because of the temptations and the sins which do so easily beset me,

And when I desire to rejoice, my heart groaneth because of my sins.

Nevertheless, I know in whom I have trusted,

<i>My God hath been my support;

He hath led me through mine afflictions in the wilderness,

And he hath preserved me upon the waters of the great deep.

In some ways, the thought groupings and punctuation are stronger when arranged in this manner.

Hebraisms.

Regardless of what language Nephi used to transmit the "Psalm of Nephi," there are, in the passage, enough Hebraisms and similarities to Hebrew poetry to conjecture a Hebrew language original. When we conclude so, we can make some interesting observations.

Verses 21 and 22. The two lines are linked by parallel elements of syntax and morphology. The parallelism of Hebrew poetry often extends beyond a rhythm of thought and ideas to that of morphology, syntax, and phonetics, resemblances which tend to be less obvious, especially in translation.

He hath filled me with his love, even unto the consuming of my flesh.
He hath confounded mine enemies, unto the causing of them to quake before me.

If we translate the passage back into Hebrew, and arrange it into typical "verse" format, we observe that each line begins with the verb form "he hath" followed by a parallel in the Hebrew root aleph - yod - bet (enemy) with aleph - heh - bet (love). The two words have similar roots (in fact yod and heh are related root letters). The second half of each line begins with "unto" ("od" in the Hebrew) followed in the Hebrew by the infinitive construct verb form.

Thus vs 21b in Hebrew would read:
od kkelot bbesari</font>(compare Ruth 2:23).
In vs 22, the phrase "the causing of them to quake" is awkward in English, but brings to mind the hiphil "causative" verb form in the Hebrew.
Verse 22b in Hebrew might read:
od ham'idu mippanai (compare Ps 69:23) [an alternative choice would be od hacharidu mippanai (compare Ezek 30:9)].

When we stack these together the correspondences in the first clause of both lines become more evedent:

The parallel at the end of each line is not readily apparent in English, but the idiom for "before me" in Hebrew reads literally from my face, which draws a connection to "of my flesh" in the first line. The syntactic link is further bolstered by the personal posessive suffix yod affixed as the final character of both lines.

As interesting as these musings might be (to some), we are tempted to ask the question, "Does a poetic interpretation effect the message conveyed by the text?" If we establish a parallel between these two lines, the answer is yes, because then we are justified in viewing them as one thought unit:

He hath filled me with his love, even unto the consuming of my flesh.
He hath confounded mine enemies, unto the causing of them to quake before me.

As such, we have a much stronger statement than if the two lines were merely treated as successive lines among many others. As a unit, the verse has sharpercontrast. As a unit, the statement is more emphatic! The lines together would be understood as:

He has filled me such that I am completely consumed with his love,
But my enemies he has so confounded that they tremble with fear!

Heart and soul. For analysis of the terms heart and soul in these verses and elsewhere in the scriptures, see “Understanding Old Testament Poetry” by Kevin Barney in Ensign, June 1990, p. 51.

2 Ne 4:14: History. The word "history" appears in the Book of Mormon only in the small plates: three times in Nephi's two books, and three times in Jacob (1 Ne 9:2; 2 Ne 4:14; 2 Ne 5:33; Jacob Heading; 1:2, 3). In every case except this one, "history" refers to a string of events, rather than to a record of such events. What this particular phrase means here is complex at the very least: "a more history part."

2 Ne 4:14: A more history part. The phrase "a more history part" (verse 14) may mean, in more modern language "the more historical part." In that case Nephi is saying that the more historical part of what Nephi has to record is recorded on his other plates.

2 Ne 4:26-37. In verse 26 and 27 Nephi asks himself several questions about his own weaknesses. He asks why he is so depressed given the mercy he knows the Lord shows his children. He asks why he yields to sin. He asks why he is angry at his enemy. All of these are failings he recognizes in himself. In short he asks himself why he isn't better than he is. Instead of addressing these questions directly Nephi does two things. First he addresses himself in the imperative in relation to these questions. (For example, to the question of why he is depressed, he says to himself "rejoice;" and to the question of why he is angry at his enemy he says to himself "do not anger because of mine enemies.") Second, Nephi asks the Lord to make him better (see verses 31-35).

This section is for questions along the lines of "I still don't understand ..." Please do not be shy. The point of these questions is to identify things that still need to be addressed on this page. Click the link above and to the right to edit or add content to this heading. →

This section is for prompts that suggest ways in which a passage can influence a person's life. Prompts may be appropriate either for private self reflection or for a class discussion. Click the link above and to the right to edit or add content to this heading. →

This section is for prompts that invite us to think about a passage more deeply or in a new way. These are not necessarily questions that beg for answers, but rather prompts along the lines of "Have you ever thought about ..." Prompts are most helpful when they are developed individually, thoughtfully, and with enough background information to clearly indicate a particular direction for further study or thought. Click the link above and to the right to edit or add content to this heading. →

2 Ne 4:15-16: Motivation to ponder. What makes Nephi begin to think about the scriptures? What has just happened that motivates verse 15? What are “the things of the Lord” (v. 16)? Surely a good part of what Nephi means has already been mentioned in verse 15, namely the scriptures. But what else might he have in mind?

2 Ne 4:16: Heart pondereth. The definition of Ponder is "To weigh in the mind; to consider and compare the circumstances or consequences of an event, or the importance of the reasons for or against a decision." My question is what is the significance of the heart. I read that the heart was beleive to be a symbol of thought in ancient time. I read that in "Lost lannguage of Symbolism" by Alonzo Gaskill. I cannot remember the exact quote because the book is packed, but why is he pondering in his heart? Is the heart more spiritual than the mind? Can the heart feel more confirmation of the spirit than the mind. I know that is what is stated in the D&C that you will feel it in your heart and then your mind. If you think about it though, how much does our heart know that our mind doesn't quite grasp yet? Is that the begining of faith? Do we feel it in our hearts and then the confirmation in the mind can come weeks or even months later? Is that how a person can say that they beleive in the word of wisdom and then later gain a full understanding of its importance when they see the blessings work in their life? To me it is as though when the spirit speaks to your heart you have faith and then the confirmation to the mind or detailed instructions or understanding may come later. (I don't know if these comments are right for this page but I thought I would but them here for now.)

I don't think Luke 2:19 really addressed the heart (...) of your question. Instead, I'll try to post some thoughts on Deut 6:5 which I think will be more relevant to this distinction between heart and mind. I think our modern view is very different than the ancient Hebrew one which I'm assuming Nephi inherited (which is very different I think than the Greek view--maybe I'll post something about this on Mark 12:30 too where Deut 6:5 is quoted...).

2 Ne 4:17-18: Why does Nephi, of all people, grieve about his iniquities? What is the connection between seeing the goodness of the Lord and grieving about one’s iniquities? What does Nephi’s grief teach us? What iniquities might Nephi have had? Given the context, what sins might he have found particularly tempting? Do verses 13 and 27-29 suggest and answer to this question?

2 Ne 4:19: Here we see Nephi turn from grief, in the beginning of the verse, to hope, in the end. What does the change we see happening in this verse tell us about our own sorrows? Is sorrow or guilt bad? What is the difference between Nephi’s sorrow and harmful sorrow? Compare 2 Cor 7:10. What is the sorrow to death? When do we find ourselves in the kind of sorrow Nephi experiencing? If someone is experiencing the sorrow to death rather than the sorrow to life, how can that change?

2 Ne 4:19: Is Nephi telling us something profound when he concludes his confessions with the statement "I know in whom I have trusted"? Is Nephi saying that it wasn't enough just to trust? Was the key for him the knowing of the being in whom he was trusting? If so, does Nephi make this confident declaration because he has been visited of the Lord (see 1 Ne. 2:16)? If that is the case, what hope do the rest of us for really getting to know the divine being that we want to trust?

2 Ne 4:20-25: What things is Nephi grateful for? Can you draw specific parallels to the things we should be thankful for? Are these some of the “things of the Lord,” mentioned in v. 16? How does memory serve Nephi in this verse? How ought it to serve us?

2 Ne 4:26-30: What is Nephi’s answer to the troubles he has? to his weakness in the face of temptation, for example? Why is “enemy” singular in verse 27 and plural in verse 29? When did Nephi’s soul “droop in sin"? What was that sin?

2 Ne 4:31-35: Why does this psalm of Nephi end in a prayer? In our more ordinary terms, what are the things Nephi prays for?

2 Ne 4:32: Since obedience seems to be what I do rather than what the Lord does for me, what does it mean to pray to be obedient?

2 Ne 4:33: What does it mean to be encircled in the robes of the Lord’s righteousness? (Compare Isa 61:10 and Baruch 5:2. Baruch is in the Apocrypha.) What surrounded Nephi in 18?

2 Ne 4:34: Is there a significant difference between faith in God and trust in God? What does it mean to trust in the arm of flesh? When might we find ourselves doing that?

2 Ne 4:35: Compare this verse to James 1:5. What might Joseph Smith have thought as he translated this verse?

This section is for listing links and print resources, including those that are also cited elsewhere on this page. A short comment about the particular strengths of a resource can be helpful. Click the link above and to the right to edit or add content to this heading. →

2 Ne 4:33: Encircle me around. See this post by Kevin Barney at the BCC blog on "Ritual Embraces and the Atonement" for a discussion linking the phrase "encircle me around" with the idea and etymology of atonement (kaphar).

Footnotes are not required but are encouraged for factual assertions that average readers cannot easily evaluate for themselves (such as the date of King Solomon’s death or the nuanced definition of a Greek word). In contrast, insights rarely benefit from footnoting, and the focus of this page should always remain on the scriptures themselves rather than what someone has said about them. Links are actively encouraged on all sections of this page, and links to authoritative sources (such as Strong's Bible Concordance or the Joseph Smith Papers) are preferable to footnotes.

This section is for detailed discussion such as the meaning of a symbol, how a doctrinal point is developed throughout a passage, or insights that can be further developed in the future. Contributions may range from polished paragraphs down to a single bullet point. The focus, however, should always be on understanding the scriptural text consistent with LDS doctrine. Click the link above and to the right to edit or add content to this heading. →

Outline. Verses 16-35 bear such a striking resemblance to the style and structure of the biblical poetic writings that the section is often referred to as the "Psalm of Nephi." For an analysis of similarities to Hebrew poetry, see the article by Steven Barton.

Verses 16-17 open the first stanza of the Psalm of Nephi. The unit appears to be a series of 3 couplets organized in chiastic form.

A.Behold, my soul delighteth in the things of the Lord;B.And my heart pondereth continually upon the things which I have seen and heard.

C.Nevertheless, notwithstanding the great goodness of the Lord, in showing me his great and marvelous works,c.My heart exclaimeth: O wretched man that I am!

This chiasm is a good example of the tendency to contrast antithetical
ideas when using chiastic form. Typically, the center point of a chiasm will
be the point at which an opposite idea is introduced.

Hence,

A. soul delighteth

B. heart pondereth

C. goodness of the Lord

is contrasted with:

c. wretched man

b. heart sorroweth

a. soul grieveth

Verses 18-20. If we ignore the arbitrary punctuation of Grandin and arrange the lines similar to a passage from the Psalms or Isaiah, the verses break out differently:

I am encompassed about, because of the temptations and the sins which do so easily beset me,

And when I desire to rejoice, my heart groaneth because of my sins.

Nevertheless, I know in whom I have trusted,

<i>My God hath been my support;

He hath led me through mine afflictions in the wilderness,

And he hath preserved me upon the waters of the great deep.

In some ways, the thought groupings and punctuation are stronger when arranged in this manner.

Hebraisms.

Regardless of what language Nephi used to transmit the "Psalm of Nephi," there are, in the passage, enough Hebraisms and similarities to Hebrew poetry to conjecture a Hebrew language original. When we conclude so, we can make some interesting observations.

Verses 21 and 22. The two lines are linked by parallel elements of syntax and morphology. The parallelism of Hebrew poetry often extends beyond a rhythm of thought and ideas to that of morphology, syntax, and phonetics, resemblances which tend to be less obvious, especially in translation.

He hath filled me with his love, even unto the consuming of my flesh.
He hath confounded mine enemies, unto the causing of them to quake before me.

If we translate the passage back into Hebrew, and arrange it into typical "verse" format, we observe that each line begins with the verb form "he hath" followed by a parallel in the Hebrew root aleph - yod - bet (enemy) with aleph - heh - bet (love). The two words have similar roots (in fact yod and heh are related root letters). The second half of each line begins with "unto" ("od" in the Hebrew) followed in the Hebrew by the infinitive construct verb form.

Thus vs 21b in Hebrew would read:
od kkelot bbesari</font>(compare Ruth 2:23).
In vs 22, the phrase "the causing of them to quake" is awkward in English, but brings to mind the hiphil "causative" verb form in the Hebrew.
Verse 22b in Hebrew might read:
od ham'idu mippanai (compare Ps 69:23) [an alternative choice would be od hacharidu mippanai (compare Ezek 30:9)].

When we stack these together the correspondences in the first clause of both lines become more evedent:

The parallel at the end of each line is not readily apparent in English, but the idiom for "before me" in Hebrew reads literally from my face, which draws a connection to "of my flesh" in the first line. The syntactic link is further bolstered by the personal posessive suffix yod affixed as the final character of both lines.

As interesting as these musings might be (to some), we are tempted to ask the question, "Does a poetic interpretation effect the message conveyed by the text?" If we establish a parallel between these two lines, the answer is yes, because then we are justified in viewing them as one thought unit:

He hath filled me with his love, even unto the consuming of my flesh.
He hath confounded mine enemies, unto the causing of them to quake before me.

As such, we have a much stronger statement than if the two lines were merely treated as successive lines among many others. As a unit, the verse has sharpercontrast. As a unit, the statement is more emphatic! The lines together would be understood as:

He has filled me such that I am completely consumed with his love,
But my enemies he has so confounded that they tremble with fear!

Heart and soul. For analysis of the terms heart and soul in these verses and elsewhere in the scriptures, see “Understanding Old Testament Poetry” by Kevin Barney in Ensign, June 1990, p. 51.

2 Ne 4:14: History. The word "history" appears in the Book of Mormon only in the small plates: three times in Nephi's two books, and three times in Jacob (1 Ne 9:2; 2 Ne 4:14; 2 Ne 5:33; Jacob Heading; 1:2, 3). In every case except this one, "history" refers to a string of events, rather than to a record of such events. What this particular phrase means here is complex at the very least: "a more history part."

2 Ne 4:14: A more history part. The phrase "a more history part" (verse 14) may mean, in more modern language "the more historical part." In that case Nephi is saying that the more historical part of what Nephi has to record is recorded on his other plates.

2 Ne 4:26-37. In verse 26 and 27 Nephi asks himself several questions about his own weaknesses. He asks why he is so depressed given the mercy he knows the Lord shows his children. He asks why he yields to sin. He asks why he is angry at his enemy. All of these are failings he recognizes in himself. In short he asks himself why he isn't better than he is. Instead of addressing these questions directly Nephi does two things. First he addresses himself in the imperative in relation to these questions. (For example, to the question of why he is depressed, he says to himself "rejoice;" and to the question of why he is angry at his enemy he says to himself "do not anger because of mine enemies.") Second, Nephi asks the Lord to make him better (see verses 31-35).

This section is for questions along the lines of "I still don't understand ..." Please do not be shy. The point of these questions is to identify things that still need to be addressed on this page. Click the link above and to the right to edit or add content to this heading. →

This section is for prompts that suggest ways in which a passage can influence a person's life. Prompts may be appropriate either for private self reflection or for a class discussion. Click the link above and to the right to edit or add content to this heading. →

This section is for prompts that invite us to think about a passage more deeply or in a new way. These are not necessarily questions that beg for answers, but rather prompts along the lines of "Have you ever thought about ..." Prompts are most helpful when they are developed individually, thoughtfully, and with enough background information to clearly indicate a particular direction for further study or thought. Click the link above and to the right to edit or add content to this heading. →

2 Ne 4:15-16: Motivation to ponder. What makes Nephi begin to think about the scriptures? What has just happened that motivates verse 15? What are “the things of the Lord” (v. 16)? Surely a good part of what Nephi means has already been mentioned in verse 15, namely the scriptures. But what else might he have in mind?

2 Ne 4:16: Heart pondereth. The definition of Ponder is "To weigh in the mind; to consider and compare the circumstances or consequences of an event, or the importance of the reasons for or against a decision." My question is what is the significance of the heart. I read that the heart was beleive to be a symbol of thought in ancient time. I read that in "Lost lannguage of Symbolism" by Alonzo Gaskill. I cannot remember the exact quote because the book is packed, but why is he pondering in his heart? Is the heart more spiritual than the mind? Can the heart feel more confirmation of the spirit than the mind. I know that is what is stated in the D&C that you will feel it in your heart and then your mind. If you think about it though, how much does our heart know that our mind doesn't quite grasp yet? Is that the begining of faith? Do we feel it in our hearts and then the confirmation in the mind can come weeks or even months later? Is that how a person can say that they beleive in the word of wisdom and then later gain a full understanding of its importance when they see the blessings work in their life? To me it is as though when the spirit speaks to your heart you have faith and then the confirmation to the mind or detailed instructions or understanding may come later. (I don't know if these comments are right for this page but I thought I would but them here for now.)

I don't think Luke 2:19 really addressed the heart (...) of your question. Instead, I'll try to post some thoughts on Deut 6:5 which I think will be more relevant to this distinction between heart and mind. I think our modern view is very different than the ancient Hebrew one which I'm assuming Nephi inherited (which is very different I think than the Greek view--maybe I'll post something about this on Mark 12:30 too where Deut 6:5 is quoted...).

2 Ne 4:17-18: Why does Nephi, of all people, grieve about his iniquities? What is the connection between seeing the goodness of the Lord and grieving about one’s iniquities? What does Nephi’s grief teach us? What iniquities might Nephi have had? Given the context, what sins might he have found particularly tempting? Do verses 13 and 27-29 suggest and answer to this question?

2 Ne 4:19: Here we see Nephi turn from grief, in the beginning of the verse, to hope, in the end. What does the change we see happening in this verse tell us about our own sorrows? Is sorrow or guilt bad? What is the difference between Nephi’s sorrow and harmful sorrow? Compare 2 Cor 7:10. What is the sorrow to death? When do we find ourselves in the kind of sorrow Nephi experiencing? If someone is experiencing the sorrow to death rather than the sorrow to life, how can that change?

2 Ne 4:19: Is Nephi telling us something profound when he concludes his confessions with the statement "I know in whom I have trusted"? Is Nephi saying that it wasn't enough just to trust? Was the key for him the knowing of the being in whom he was trusting? If so, does Nephi make this confident declaration because he has been visited of the Lord (see 1 Ne. 2:16)? If that is the case, what hope do the rest of us for really getting to know the divine being that we want to trust?

2 Ne 4:20-25: What things is Nephi grateful for? Can you draw specific parallels to the things we should be thankful for? Are these some of the “things of the Lord,” mentioned in v. 16? How does memory serve Nephi in this verse? How ought it to serve us?

2 Ne 4:26-30: What is Nephi’s answer to the troubles he has? to his weakness in the face of temptation, for example? Why is “enemy” singular in verse 27 and plural in verse 29? When did Nephi’s soul “droop in sin"? What was that sin?

2 Ne 4:31-35: Why does this psalm of Nephi end in a prayer? In our more ordinary terms, what are the things Nephi prays for?

2 Ne 4:32: Since obedience seems to be what I do rather than what the Lord does for me, what does it mean to pray to be obedient?

2 Ne 4:33: What does it mean to be encircled in the robes of the Lord’s righteousness? (Compare Isa 61:10 and Baruch 5:2. Baruch is in the Apocrypha.) What surrounded Nephi in 18?

2 Ne 4:34: Is there a significant difference between faith in God and trust in God? What does it mean to trust in the arm of flesh? When might we find ourselves doing that?

2 Ne 4:35: Compare this verse to James 1:5. What might Joseph Smith have thought as he translated this verse?

This section is for listing links and print resources, including those that are also cited elsewhere on this page. A short comment about the particular strengths of a resource can be helpful. Click the link above and to the right to edit or add content to this heading. →

2 Ne 4:33: Encircle me around. See this post by Kevin Barney at the BCC blog on "Ritual Embraces and the Atonement" for a discussion linking the phrase "encircle me around" with the idea and etymology of atonement (kaphar).

Footnotes are not required but are encouraged for factual assertions that average readers cannot easily evaluate for themselves (such as the date of King Solomon’s death or the nuanced definition of a Greek word). In contrast, insights rarely benefit from footnoting, and the focus of this page should always remain on the scriptures themselves rather than what someone has said about them. Links are actively encouraged on all sections of this page, and links to authoritative sources (such as Strong's Bible Concordance or the Joseph Smith Papers) are preferable to footnotes.

This section is for detailed discussion such as the meaning of a symbol, how a doctrinal point is developed throughout a passage, or insights that can be further developed in the future. Contributions may range from polished paragraphs down to a single bullet point. The focus, however, should always be on understanding the scriptural text consistent with LDS doctrine. Click the link above and to the right to edit or add content to this heading. →

This section is for questions along the lines of "I still don't understand ..." Please do not be shy. The point of these questions is to identify things that still need to be addressed on this page. Click the link above and to the right to edit or add content to this heading. →

This section is for prompts that suggest ways in which a passage can influence a person's life. Prompts may be appropriate either for private self reflection or for a class discussion. Click the link above and to the right to edit or add content to this heading. →

This section is for prompts that invite us to think about a passage more deeply or in a new way. These are not necessarily questions that beg for answers, but rather prompts along the lines of "Have you ever thought about ..." Prompts are most helpful when they are developed individually, thoughtfully, and with enough background information to clearly indicate a particular direction for further study or thought. Click the link above and to the right to edit or add content to this heading. →

2 Ne 5:1-7: Contrast v. 1 with 2 Nephi 4:27-29. Following the pattern of Moses and Israel that Nephi has referred to on several occasions, Nephi leaves Laman and Lemuel, taking his family and those who would follow him into the wilderness. The Doctrine and Covenants uses a related imagery when it commands us to leave Babylon, (See, for example, D&C 133:5, 7, and 14). What kinds of meanings can this type have for us today? How can we leave “Babylon” and go into the wilderness? Where is the wilderness today?

2 Ne 5:6: Does the phrase "also my sisters" suggest that all Nephi's sisters went with him?

Verse 5:18: Nephi states that he did not want his people to have a king, but he doesn't explain why or what other options he considered before giving in to their request. Was Nephi thinking of 1 Samuel 8, when Samuel was faced with a similar challenge? How might Nephi's aversion to monarchy be connected with political developments in the last years of the Southern Kingdom?

2 Ne 5:19: When Nephi says he became his people’s ruler and teacher, is he using these two words to say the same thing (as Gen 1:1 does when it says that the world was “without form and void” in the beginning, or when an angry sister tells her brother to “shut up and be quiet"), or is he saying he was two things, that he was a ruler and he was a teacher? If we think of “ruler and teacher” as two ways of saying the same thing, what might that tell us about being a ruler? A father or mother? Does it say anything about contemporary politics? If we think of “ruler and teacher” as different things here, what does that tell us about Nephi’s relation to his people?

2 Ne 5:20-25: Reading these verses in the post Civil Rights era is uncomfortable for many. What options for interpretation are available here? What is the curse that came upon those who followed Laman and Lemuel? Was it the darkened color of their skin or something else? If it was the darkness of their skin, how does that explain their idleness and mischief? If it was something else, what was it? What is the relationship between the curse and the idleness?

2 Ne 5:20-25: These verses seem problematic to many. At first glance it appears that God is cursing the Lamanites for their lack of obedience by giving them black skin. If God gives black skin as a punishment (or curse), that seems to suggest that those with black skin are inferior in the eyes of God. But this is not what we want to believe of God, because it suggests an imperfection in him who has no imperfection. On the other hand, modifying our views on the equality of different races is an unacceptable way of resolving the tension. What is the best way to read these verses in order to resolve the tension? What is a faithful, yet less disturbing, reading of this verse?

Is it reasonable to interpret the nature of the cursing as being cut off from the present of the Lord (see v.20)? What does it mean to be cut off from the presence of the Lord? No more angels for Laman and Lemuel? No more working Liahona? No more Holy Ghost? No more contemporary prophet? In what way do the Nephites enjoy the presence of the Lord that the Lamanites do not?

What do these verses about being cut off from the presence of the Lord suggest about his nature? Many members find comfort in the view that we move away from the Lord rather than him moving away from us. But in these verses, the Lamanites are "cut off" from the Lord's presence (see v.20). He "causes" the curse to come on them (v. 21) and he "causes" the skin of blackness to come on them (v.21). He "causes" that they become loathsome (v.22). In other words, when Laman and Lemuel are cut off from the presence of the Lord, this isn't simply something that do to themselves, but something that the Lord has done to them.

What other scriptures can we look to for evidence that God doesn't value his children according to the color of their skin?

2 Ne 5:22: In verse 22, the Lord tells Nephi that he will cause the Lamanites to be loathsome to the Nephites.

What does loathsome mean? Are the Lamanites loathsome to the Nephites because they have black skin? Are they loathsome because they are idle (see v. 24)? Are they loathsome because of some other aspect of the curse? Are they loathsome as a result of their iniquities and failure to hearken or are they loathsome as a result of the curse the Lord causes because of the Lamanites' iniquities and failure to hearken? Verse 22 suggests that if the Lamanites were to change their ways then they would not be loathsome. Is this because they would no longer have black skins (no need for the Lord to worry about whether they are enticing to the Nephites if they are on the strait and narrow), or is it because the Nephites would have thought of being separated from the presence of the Lord as loathsome?

Why does the Lord make the Lamanites loathsome to the Nephites?

When the sons of Mosiah went to preach to the Lamanites did they see them as loathsome? More broadly, did the people of King Mosiah continue to see the Lamanites as loathsome during this time period?

2 Ne 5:23: In verse 23, we are told that those who mix with the Lamanites will be cursed with the same cursing. A natural way to intepret this is to suppose that the Lamanites are given the curse of black skin and anyone who mixes with them gets black skin. But what if we interpret the curse to mean being cut off from the presence of the Lord? Can verse 23 reasonably be read this way? Those who mix with the Lamanites will be cut off from the presence of the Lord just as the Lamanites were--a sore cursing indeed.

2 Ne 5:24: How does the cursing that the Lamanites receive cause them to become idle?

2 Ne 5:27: Nephi says that he and his people “lived after the manner of happiness.” What does that phrase say that “we lived happily” doesn’t say? What is “the manner [or ‘way’] of happiness"?

This section is for listing links and print resources, including those that are also cited elsewhere on this page. A short comment about the particular strengths of a resource can be helpful. Click the link above and to the right to edit or add content to this heading. →

2 Ne 5:18.Here is an article by Noel Reynolds about Nephi's relationship to kingship quite broadly.

Footnotes are not required but are encouraged for factual assertions that average readers cannot easily evaluate for themselves (such as the date of King Solomon’s death or the nuanced definition of a Greek word). In contrast, insights rarely benefit from footnoting, and the focus of this page should always remain on the scriptures themselves rather than what someone has said about them. Links are actively encouraged on all sections of this page, and links to authoritative sources (such as Strong's Bible Concordance or the Joseph Smith Papers) are preferable to footnotes.

This section is for detailed discussion such as the meaning of a symbol, how a doctrinal point is developed throughout a passage, or insights that can be further developed in the future. Contributions may range from polished paragraphs down to a single bullet point. The focus, however, should always be on understanding the scriptural text consistent with LDS doctrine. Click the link above and to the right to edit or add content to this heading. →

This section is for questions along the lines of "I still don't understand ..." Please do not be shy. The point of these questions is to identify things that still need to be addressed on this page. Click the link above and to the right to edit or add content to this heading. →

This section is for prompts that suggest ways in which a passage can influence a person's life. Prompts may be appropriate either for private self reflection or for a class discussion. Click the link above and to the right to edit or add content to this heading. →

This section is for prompts that invite us to think about a passage more deeply or in a new way. These are not necessarily questions that beg for answers, but rather prompts along the lines of "Have you ever thought about ..." Prompts are most helpful when they are developed individually, thoughtfully, and with enough background information to clearly indicate a particular direction for further study or thought. Click the link above and to the right to edit or add content to this heading. →

2 Ne 5:1-7: Contrast v. 1 with 2 Nephi 4:27-29. Following the pattern of Moses and Israel that Nephi has referred to on several occasions, Nephi leaves Laman and Lemuel, taking his family and those who would follow him into the wilderness. The Doctrine and Covenants uses a related imagery when it commands us to leave Babylon, (See, for example, D&C 133:5, 7, and 14). What kinds of meanings can this type have for us today? How can we leave “Babylon” and go into the wilderness? Where is the wilderness today?

2 Ne 5:6: Does the phrase "also my sisters" suggest that all Nephi's sisters went with him?

Verse 5:18: Nephi states that he did not want his people to have a king, but he doesn't explain why or what other options he considered before giving in to their request. Was Nephi thinking of 1 Samuel 8, when Samuel was faced with a similar challenge? How might Nephi's aversion to monarchy be connected with political developments in the last years of the Southern Kingdom?

2 Ne 5:19: When Nephi says he became his people’s ruler and teacher, is he using these two words to say the same thing (as Gen 1:1 does when it says that the world was “without form and void” in the beginning, or when an angry sister tells her brother to “shut up and be quiet"), or is he saying he was two things, that he was a ruler and he was a teacher? If we think of “ruler and teacher” as two ways of saying the same thing, what might that tell us about being a ruler? A father or mother? Does it say anything about contemporary politics? If we think of “ruler and teacher” as different things here, what does that tell us about Nephi’s relation to his people?

2 Ne 5:20-25: Reading these verses in the post Civil Rights era is uncomfortable for many. What options for interpretation are available here? What is the curse that came upon those who followed Laman and Lemuel? Was it the darkened color of their skin or something else? If it was the darkness of their skin, how does that explain their idleness and mischief? If it was something else, what was it? What is the relationship between the curse and the idleness?

2 Ne 5:20-25: These verses seem problematic to many. At first glance it appears that God is cursing the Lamanites for their lack of obedience by giving them black skin. If God gives black skin as a punishment (or curse), that seems to suggest that those with black skin are inferior in the eyes of God. But this is not what we want to believe of God, because it suggests an imperfection in him who has no imperfection. On the other hand, modifying our views on the equality of different races is an unacceptable way of resolving the tension. What is the best way to read these verses in order to resolve the tension? What is a faithful, yet less disturbing, reading of this verse?

Is it reasonable to interpret the nature of the cursing as being cut off from the present of the Lord (see v.20)? What does it mean to be cut off from the presence of the Lord? No more angels for Laman and Lemuel? No more working Liahona? No more Holy Ghost? No more contemporary prophet? In what way do the Nephites enjoy the presence of the Lord that the Lamanites do not?

What do these verses about being cut off from the presence of the Lord suggest about his nature? Many members find comfort in the view that we move away from the Lord rather than him moving away from us. But in these verses, the Lamanites are "cut off" from the Lord's presence (see v.20). He "causes" the curse to come on them (v. 21) and he "causes" the skin of blackness to come on them (v.21). He "causes" that they become loathsome (v.22). In other words, when Laman and Lemuel are cut off from the presence of the Lord, this isn't simply something that do to themselves, but something that the Lord has done to them.

What other scriptures can we look to for evidence that God doesn't value his children according to the color of their skin?

2 Ne 5:22: In verse 22, the Lord tells Nephi that he will cause the Lamanites to be loathsome to the Nephites.

What does loathsome mean? Are the Lamanites loathsome to the Nephites because they have black skin? Are they loathsome because they are idle (see v. 24)? Are they loathsome because of some other aspect of the curse? Are they loathsome as a result of their iniquities and failure to hearken or are they loathsome as a result of the curse the Lord causes because of the Lamanites' iniquities and failure to hearken? Verse 22 suggests that if the Lamanites were to change their ways then they would not be loathsome. Is this because they would no longer have black skins (no need for the Lord to worry about whether they are enticing to the Nephites if they are on the strait and narrow), or is it because the Nephites would have thought of being separated from the presence of the Lord as loathsome?

Why does the Lord make the Lamanites loathsome to the Nephites?

When the sons of Mosiah went to preach to the Lamanites did they see them as loathsome? More broadly, did the people of King Mosiah continue to see the Lamanites as loathsome during this time period?

2 Ne 5:23: In verse 23, we are told that those who mix with the Lamanites will be cursed with the same cursing. A natural way to intepret this is to suppose that the Lamanites are given the curse of black skin and anyone who mixes with them gets black skin. But what if we interpret the curse to mean being cut off from the presence of the Lord? Can verse 23 reasonably be read this way? Those who mix with the Lamanites will be cut off from the presence of the Lord just as the Lamanites were--a sore cursing indeed.

2 Ne 5:24: How does the cursing that the Lamanites receive cause them to become idle?

2 Ne 5:27: Nephi says that he and his people “lived after the manner of happiness.” What does that phrase say that “we lived happily” doesn’t say? What is “the manner [or ‘way’] of happiness"?

This section is for listing links and print resources, including those that are also cited elsewhere on this page. A short comment about the particular strengths of a resource can be helpful. Click the link above and to the right to edit or add content to this heading. →

2 Ne 5:18.Here is an article by Noel Reynolds about Nephi's relationship to kingship quite broadly.

Footnotes are not required but are encouraged for factual assertions that average readers cannot easily evaluate for themselves (such as the date of King Solomon’s death or the nuanced definition of a Greek word). In contrast, insights rarely benefit from footnoting, and the focus of this page should always remain on the scriptures themselves rather than what someone has said about them. Links are actively encouraged on all sections of this page, and links to authoritative sources (such as Strong's Bible Concordance or the Joseph Smith Papers) are preferable to footnotes.

This section is for detailed discussion such as the meaning of a symbol, how a doctrinal point is developed throughout a passage, or insights that can be further developed in the future. Contributions may range from polished paragraphs down to a single bullet point. The focus, however, should always be on understanding the scriptural text consistent with LDS doctrine. Click the link above and to the right to edit or add content to this heading. →

This section is for questions along the lines of "I still don't understand ..." Please do not be shy. The point of these questions is to identify things that still need to be addressed on this page. Click the link above and to the right to edit or add content to this heading. →

This section is for prompts that suggest ways in which a passage can influence a person's life. Prompts may be appropriate either for private self reflection or for a class discussion. Click the link above and to the right to edit or add content to this heading. →

This section is for prompts that invite us to think about a passage more deeply or in a new way. These are not necessarily questions that beg for answers, but rather prompts along the lines of "Have you ever thought about ..." Prompts are most helpful when they are developed individually, thoughtfully, and with enough background information to clearly indicate a particular direction for further study or thought. Click the link above and to the right to edit or add content to this heading. →

2 Ne 5:1-7: Contrast v. 1 with 2 Nephi 4:27-29. Following the pattern of Moses and Israel that Nephi has referred to on several occasions, Nephi leaves Laman and Lemuel, taking his family and those who would follow him into the wilderness. The Doctrine and Covenants uses a related imagery when it commands us to leave Babylon, (See, for example, D&C 133:5, 7, and 14). What kinds of meanings can this type have for us today? How can we leave “Babylon” and go into the wilderness? Where is the wilderness today?

2 Ne 5:6: Does the phrase "also my sisters" suggest that all Nephi's sisters went with him?

Verse 5:18: Nephi states that he did not want his people to have a king, but he doesn't explain why or what other options he considered before giving in to their request. Was Nephi thinking of 1 Samuel 8, when Samuel was faced with a similar challenge? How might Nephi's aversion to monarchy be connected with political developments in the last years of the Southern Kingdom?

2 Ne 5:19: When Nephi says he became his people’s ruler and teacher, is he using these two words to say the same thing (as Gen 1:1 does when it says that the world was “without form and void” in the beginning, or when an angry sister tells her brother to “shut up and be quiet"), or is he saying he was two things, that he was a ruler and he was a teacher? If we think of “ruler and teacher” as two ways of saying the same thing, what might that tell us about being a ruler? A father or mother? Does it say anything about contemporary politics? If we think of “ruler and teacher” as different things here, what does that tell us about Nephi’s relation to his people?

2 Ne 5:20-25: Reading these verses in the post Civil Rights era is uncomfortable for many. What options for interpretation are available here? What is the curse that came upon those who followed Laman and Lemuel? Was it the darkened color of their skin or something else? If it was the darkness of their skin, how does that explain their idleness and mischief? If it was something else, what was it? What is the relationship between the curse and the idleness?

2 Ne 5:20-25: These verses seem problematic to many. At first glance it appears that God is cursing the Lamanites for their lack of obedience by giving them black skin. If God gives black skin as a punishment (or curse), that seems to suggest that those with black skin are inferior in the eyes of God. But this is not what we want to believe of God, because it suggests an imperfection in him who has no imperfection. On the other hand, modifying our views on the equality of different races is an unacceptable way of resolving the tension. What is the best way to read these verses in order to resolve the tension? What is a faithful, yet less disturbing, reading of this verse?

Is it reasonable to interpret the nature of the cursing as being cut off from the present of the Lord (see v.20)? What does it mean to be cut off from the presence of the Lord? No more angels for Laman and Lemuel? No more working Liahona? No more Holy Ghost? No more contemporary prophet? In what way do the Nephites enjoy the presence of the Lord that the Lamanites do not?

What do these verses about being cut off from the presence of the Lord suggest about his nature? Many members find comfort in the view that we move away from the Lord rather than him moving away from us. But in these verses, the Lamanites are "cut off" from the Lord's presence (see v.20). He "causes" the curse to come on them (v. 21) and he "causes" the skin of blackness to come on them (v.21). He "causes" that they become loathsome (v.22). In other words, when Laman and Lemuel are cut off from the presence of the Lord, this isn't simply something that do to themselves, but something that the Lord has done to them.

What other scriptures can we look to for evidence that God doesn't value his children according to the color of their skin?

2 Ne 5:22: In verse 22, the Lord tells Nephi that he will cause the Lamanites to be loathsome to the Nephites.

What does loathsome mean? Are the Lamanites loathsome to the Nephites because they have black skin? Are they loathsome because they are idle (see v. 24)? Are they loathsome because of some other aspect of the curse? Are they loathsome as a result of their iniquities and failure to hearken or are they loathsome as a result of the curse the Lord causes because of the Lamanites' iniquities and failure to hearken? Verse 22 suggests that if the Lamanites were to change their ways then they would not be loathsome. Is this because they would no longer have black skins (no need for the Lord to worry about whether they are enticing to the Nephites if they are on the strait and narrow), or is it because the Nephites would have thought of being separated from the presence of the Lord as loathsome?

Why does the Lord make the Lamanites loathsome to the Nephites?

When the sons of Mosiah went to preach to the Lamanites did they see them as loathsome? More broadly, did the people of King Mosiah continue to see the Lamanites as loathsome during this time period?

2 Ne 5:23: In verse 23, we are told that those who mix with the Lamanites will be cursed with the same cursing. A natural way to intepret this is to suppose that the Lamanites are given the curse of black skin and anyone who mixes with them gets black skin. But what if we interpret the curse to mean being cut off from the presence of the Lord? Can verse 23 reasonably be read this way? Those who mix with the Lamanites will be cut off from the presence of the Lord just as the Lamanites were--a sore cursing indeed.

2 Ne 5:24: How does the cursing that the Lamanites receive cause them to become idle?

2 Ne 5:27: Nephi says that he and his people “lived after the manner of happiness.” What does that phrase say that “we lived happily” doesn’t say? What is “the manner [or ‘way’] of happiness"?

This section is for listing links and print resources, including those that are also cited elsewhere on this page. A short comment about the particular strengths of a resource can be helpful. Click the link above and to the right to edit or add content to this heading. →

2 Ne 5:18.Here is an article by Noel Reynolds about Nephi's relationship to kingship quite broadly.

Footnotes are not required but are encouraged for factual assertions that average readers cannot easily evaluate for themselves (such as the date of King Solomon’s death or the nuanced definition of a Greek word). In contrast, insights rarely benefit from footnoting, and the focus of this page should always remain on the scriptures themselves rather than what someone has said about them. Links are actively encouraged on all sections of this page, and links to authoritative sources (such as Strong's Bible Concordance or the Joseph Smith Papers) are preferable to footnotes.

This section is for detailed discussion such as the meaning of a symbol, how a doctrinal point is developed throughout a passage, or insights that can be further developed in the future. Contributions may range from polished paragraphs down to a single bullet point. The focus, however, should always be on understanding the scriptural text consistent with LDS doctrine. Click the link above and to the right to edit or add content to this heading. →

This section is for questions along the lines of "I still don't understand ..." Please do not be shy. The point of these questions is to identify things that still need to be addressed on this page. Click the link above and to the right to edit or add content to this heading. →

This section is for prompts that suggest ways in which a passage can influence a person's life. Prompts may be appropriate either for private self reflection or for a class discussion. Click the link above and to the right to edit or add content to this heading. →

This section is for prompts that invite us to think about a passage more deeply or in a new way. These are not necessarily questions that beg for answers, but rather prompts along the lines of "Have you ever thought about ..." Prompts are most helpful when they are developed individually, thoughtfully, and with enough background information to clearly indicate a particular direction for further study or thought. Click the link above and to the right to edit or add content to this heading. →

2 Ne 5:1-7: Contrast v. 1 with 2 Nephi 4:27-29. Following the pattern of Moses and Israel that Nephi has referred to on several occasions, Nephi leaves Laman and Lemuel, taking his family and those who would follow him into the wilderness. The Doctrine and Covenants uses a related imagery when it commands us to leave Babylon, (See, for example, D&C 133:5, 7, and 14). What kinds of meanings can this type have for us today? How can we leave “Babylon” and go into the wilderness? Where is the wilderness today?

2 Ne 5:6: Does the phrase "also my sisters" suggest that all Nephi's sisters went with him?

Verse 5:18: Nephi states that he did not want his people to have a king, but he doesn't explain why or what other options he considered before giving in to their request. Was Nephi thinking of 1 Samuel 8, when Samuel was faced with a similar challenge? How might Nephi's aversion to monarchy be connected with political developments in the last years of the Southern Kingdom?

2 Ne 5:19: When Nephi says he became his people’s ruler and teacher, is he using these two words to say the same thing (as Gen 1:1 does when it says that the world was “without form and void” in the beginning, or when an angry sister tells her brother to “shut up and be quiet"), or is he saying he was two things, that he was a ruler and he was a teacher? If we think of “ruler and teacher” as two ways of saying the same thing, what might that tell us about being a ruler? A father or mother? Does it say anything about contemporary politics? If we think of “ruler and teacher” as different things here, what does that tell us about Nephi’s relation to his people?

2 Ne 5:20-25: Reading these verses in the post Civil Rights era is uncomfortable for many. What options for interpretation are available here? What is the curse that came upon those who followed Laman and Lemuel? Was it the darkened color of their skin or something else? If it was the darkness of their skin, how does that explain their idleness and mischief? If it was something else, what was it? What is the relationship between the curse and the idleness?

2 Ne 5:20-25: These verses seem problematic to many. At first glance it appears that God is cursing the Lamanites for their lack of obedience by giving them black skin. If God gives black skin as a punishment (or curse), that seems to suggest that those with black skin are inferior in the eyes of God. But this is not what we want to believe of God, because it suggests an imperfection in him who has no imperfection. On the other hand, modifying our views on the equality of different races is an unacceptable way of resolving the tension. What is the best way to read these verses in order to resolve the tension? What is a faithful, yet less disturbing, reading of this verse?

Is it reasonable to interpret the nature of the cursing as being cut off from the present of the Lord (see v.20)? What does it mean to be cut off from the presence of the Lord? No more angels for Laman and Lemuel? No more working Liahona? No more Holy Ghost? No more contemporary prophet? In what way do the Nephites enjoy the presence of the Lord that the Lamanites do not?

What do these verses about being cut off from the presence of the Lord suggest about his nature? Many members find comfort in the view that we move away from the Lord rather than him moving away from us. But in these verses, the Lamanites are "cut off" from the Lord's presence (see v.20). He "causes" the curse to come on them (v. 21) and he "causes" the skin of blackness to come on them (v.21). He "causes" that they become loathsome (v.22). In other words, when Laman and Lemuel are cut off from the presence of the Lord, this isn't simply something that do to themselves, but something that the Lord has done to them.

What other scriptures can we look to for evidence that God doesn't value his children according to the color of their skin?

2 Ne 5:22: In verse 22, the Lord tells Nephi that he will cause the Lamanites to be loathsome to the Nephites.

What does loathsome mean? Are the Lamanites loathsome to the Nephites because they have black skin? Are they loathsome because they are idle (see v. 24)? Are they loathsome because of some other aspect of the curse? Are they loathsome as a result of their iniquities and failure to hearken or are they loathsome as a result of the curse the Lord causes because of the Lamanites' iniquities and failure to hearken? Verse 22 suggests that if the Lamanites were to change their ways then they would not be loathsome. Is this because they would no longer have black skins (no need for the Lord to worry about whether they are enticing to the Nephites if they are on the strait and narrow), or is it because the Nephites would have thought of being separated from the presence of the Lord as loathsome?

Why does the Lord make the Lamanites loathsome to the Nephites?

When the sons of Mosiah went to preach to the Lamanites did they see them as loathsome? More broadly, did the people of King Mosiah continue to see the Lamanites as loathsome during this time period?

2 Ne 5:23: In verse 23, we are told that those who mix with the Lamanites will be cursed with the same cursing. A natural way to intepret this is to suppose that the Lamanites are given the curse of black skin and anyone who mixes with them gets black skin. But what if we interpret the curse to mean being cut off from the presence of the Lord? Can verse 23 reasonably be read this way? Those who mix with the Lamanites will be cut off from the presence of the Lord just as the Lamanites were--a sore cursing indeed.

2 Ne 5:24: How does the cursing that the Lamanites receive cause them to become idle?

2 Ne 5:27: Nephi says that he and his people “lived after the manner of happiness.” What does that phrase say that “we lived happily” doesn’t say? What is “the manner [or ‘way’] of happiness"?

This section is for listing links and print resources, including those that are also cited elsewhere on this page. A short comment about the particular strengths of a resource can be helpful. Click the link above and to the right to edit or add content to this heading. →

2 Ne 5:18.Here is an article by Noel Reynolds about Nephi's relationship to kingship quite broadly.

Footnotes are not required but are encouraged for factual assertions that average readers cannot easily evaluate for themselves (such as the date of King Solomon’s death or the nuanced definition of a Greek word). In contrast, insights rarely benefit from footnoting, and the focus of this page should always remain on the scriptures themselves rather than what someone has said about them. Links are actively encouraged on all sections of this page, and links to authoritative sources (such as Strong's Bible Concordance or the Joseph Smith Papers) are preferable to footnotes.

This section is for detailed discussion such as the meaning of a symbol, how a doctrinal point is developed throughout a passage, or insights that can be further developed in the future. Contributions may range from polished paragraphs down to a single bullet point. The focus, however, should always be on understanding the scriptural text consistent with LDS doctrine. Click the link above and to the right to edit or add content to this heading. →

This section is for questions along the lines of "I still don't understand ..." Please do not be shy. The point of these questions is to identify things that still need to be addressed on this page. Click the link above and to the right to edit or add content to this heading. →

This section is for prompts that suggest ways in which a passage can influence a person's life. Prompts may be appropriate either for private self reflection or for a class discussion. Click the link above and to the right to edit or add content to this heading. →

This section is for prompts that invite us to think about a passage more deeply or in a new way. These are not necessarily questions that beg for answers, but rather prompts along the lines of "Have you ever thought about ..." Prompts are most helpful when they are developed individually, thoughtfully, and with enough background information to clearly indicate a particular direction for further study or thought. Click the link above and to the right to edit or add content to this heading. →

2 Ne 5:1-7: Contrast v. 1 with 2 Nephi 4:27-29. Following the pattern of Moses and Israel that Nephi has referred to on several occasions, Nephi leaves Laman and Lemuel, taking his family and those who would follow him into the wilderness. The Doctrine and Covenants uses a related imagery when it commands us to leave Babylon, (See, for example, D&C 133:5, 7, and 14). What kinds of meanings can this type have for us today? How can we leave “Babylon” and go into the wilderness? Where is the wilderness today?

2 Ne 5:6: Does the phrase "also my sisters" suggest that all Nephi's sisters went with him?

Verse 5:18: Nephi states that he did not want his people to have a king, but he doesn't explain why or what other options he considered before giving in to their request. Was Nephi thinking of 1 Samuel 8, when Samuel was faced with a similar challenge? How might Nephi's aversion to monarchy be connected with political developments in the last years of the Southern Kingdom?

2 Ne 5:19: When Nephi says he became his people’s ruler and teacher, is he using these two words to say the same thing (as Gen 1:1 does when it says that the world was “without form and void” in the beginning, or when an angry sister tells her brother to “shut up and be quiet"), or is he saying he was two things, that he was a ruler and he was a teacher? If we think of “ruler and teacher” as two ways of saying the same thing, what might that tell us about being a ruler? A father or mother? Does it say anything about contemporary politics? If we think of “ruler and teacher” as different things here, what does that tell us about Nephi’s relation to his people?

2 Ne 5:20-25: Reading these verses in the post Civil Rights era is uncomfortable for many. What options for interpretation are available here? What is the curse that came upon those who followed Laman and Lemuel? Was it the darkened color of their skin or something else? If it was the darkness of their skin, how does that explain their idleness and mischief? If it was something else, what was it? What is the relationship between the curse and the idleness?

2 Ne 5:20-25: These verses seem problematic to many. At first glance it appears that God is cursing the Lamanites for their lack of obedience by giving them black skin. If God gives black skin as a punishment (or curse), that seems to suggest that those with black skin are inferior in the eyes of God. But this is not what we want to believe of God, because it suggests an imperfection in him who has no imperfection. On the other hand, modifying our views on the equality of different races is an unacceptable way of resolving the tension. What is the best way to read these verses in order to resolve the tension? What is a faithful, yet less disturbing, reading of this verse?

Is it reasonable to interpret the nature of the cursing as being cut off from the present of the Lord (see v.20)? What does it mean to be cut off from the presence of the Lord? No more angels for Laman and Lemuel? No more working Liahona? No more Holy Ghost? No more contemporary prophet? In what way do the Nephites enjoy the presence of the Lord that the Lamanites do not?

What do these verses about being cut off from the presence of the Lord suggest about his nature? Many members find comfort in the view that we move away from the Lord rather than him moving away from us. But in these verses, the Lamanites are "cut off" from the Lord's presence (see v.20). He "causes" the curse to come on them (v. 21) and he "causes" the skin of blackness to come on them (v.21). He "causes" that they become loathsome (v.22). In other words, when Laman and Lemuel are cut off from the presence of the Lord, this isn't simply something that do to themselves, but something that the Lord has done to them.

What other scriptures can we look to for evidence that God doesn't value his children according to the color of their skin?

2 Ne 5:22: In verse 22, the Lord tells Nephi that he will cause the Lamanites to be loathsome to the Nephites.

What does loathsome mean? Are the Lamanites loathsome to the Nephites because they have black skin? Are they loathsome because they are idle (see v. 24)? Are they loathsome because of some other aspect of the curse? Are they loathsome as a result of their iniquities and failure to hearken or are they loathsome as a result of the curse the Lord causes because of the Lamanites' iniquities and failure to hearken? Verse 22 suggests that if the Lamanites were to change their ways then they would not be loathsome. Is this because they would no longer have black skins (no need for the Lord to worry about whether they are enticing to the Nephites if they are on the strait and narrow), or is it because the Nephites would have thought of being separated from the presence of the Lord as loathsome?

Why does the Lord make the Lamanites loathsome to the Nephites?

When the sons of Mosiah went to preach to the Lamanites did they see them as loathsome? More broadly, did the people of King Mosiah continue to see the Lamanites as loathsome during this time period?

2 Ne 5:23: In verse 23, we are told that those who mix with the Lamanites will be cursed with the same cursing. A natural way to intepret this is to suppose that the Lamanites are given the curse of black skin and anyone who mixes with them gets black skin. But what if we interpret the curse to mean being cut off from the presence of the Lord? Can verse 23 reasonably be read this way? Those who mix with the Lamanites will be cut off from the presence of the Lord just as the Lamanites were--a sore cursing indeed.

2 Ne 5:24: How does the cursing that the Lamanites receive cause them to become idle?

2 Ne 5:27: Nephi says that he and his people “lived after the manner of happiness.” What does that phrase say that “we lived happily” doesn’t say? What is “the manner [or ‘way’] of happiness"?

This section is for listing links and print resources, including those that are also cited elsewhere on this page. A short comment about the particular strengths of a resource can be helpful. Click the link above and to the right to edit or add content to this heading. →

2 Ne 5:18.Here is an article by Noel Reynolds about Nephi's relationship to kingship quite broadly.

Footnotes are not required but are encouraged for factual assertions that average readers cannot easily evaluate for themselves (such as the date of King Solomon’s death or the nuanced definition of a Greek word). In contrast, insights rarely benefit from footnoting, and the focus of this page should always remain on the scriptures themselves rather than what someone has said about them. Links are actively encouraged on all sections of this page, and links to authoritative sources (such as Strong's Bible Concordance or the Joseph Smith Papers) are preferable to footnotes.

This section is for detailed discussion such as the meaning of a symbol, how a doctrinal point is developed throughout a passage, or insights that can be further developed in the future. Contributions may range from polished paragraphs down to a single bullet point. The focus, however, should always be on understanding the scriptural text consistent with LDS doctrine. Click the link above and to the right to edit or add content to this heading. →

This section is for questions along the lines of "I still don't understand ..." Please do not be shy. The point of these questions is to identify things that still need to be addressed on this page. Click the link above and to the right to edit or add content to this heading. →

This section is for prompts that suggest ways in which a passage can influence a person's life. Prompts may be appropriate either for private self reflection or for a class discussion. Click the link above and to the right to edit or add content to this heading. →

This section is for prompts that invite us to think about a passage more deeply or in a new way. These are not necessarily questions that beg for answers, but rather prompts along the lines of "Have you ever thought about ..." Prompts are most helpful when they are developed individually, thoughtfully, and with enough background information to clearly indicate a particular direction for further study or thought. Click the link above and to the right to edit or add content to this heading. →

2 Ne 5:1-7: Contrast v. 1 with 2 Nephi 4:27-29. Following the pattern of Moses and Israel that Nephi has referred to on several occasions, Nephi leaves Laman and Lemuel, taking his family and those who would follow him into the wilderness. The Doctrine and Covenants uses a related imagery when it commands us to leave Babylon, (See, for example, D&C 133:5, 7, and 14). What kinds of meanings can this type have for us today? How can we leave “Babylon” and go into the wilderness? Where is the wilderness today?

2 Ne 5:6: Does the phrase "also my sisters" suggest that all Nephi's sisters went with him?

Verse 5:18: Nephi states that he did not want his people to have a king, but he doesn't explain why or what other options he considered before giving in to their request. Was Nephi thinking of 1 Samuel 8, when Samuel was faced with a similar challenge? How might Nephi's aversion to monarchy be connected with political developments in the last years of the Southern Kingdom?

2 Ne 5:19: When Nephi says he became his people’s ruler and teacher, is he using these two words to say the same thing (as Gen 1:1 does when it says that the world was “without form and void” in the beginning, or when an angry sister tells her brother to “shut up and be quiet"), or is he saying he was two things, that he was a ruler and he was a teacher? If we think of “ruler and teacher” as two ways of saying the same thing, what might that tell us about being a ruler? A father or mother? Does it say anything about contemporary politics? If we think of “ruler and teacher” as different things here, what does that tell us about Nephi’s relation to his people?

2 Ne 5:20-25: Reading these verses in the post Civil Rights era is uncomfortable for many. What options for interpretation are available here? What is the curse that came upon those who followed Laman and Lemuel? Was it the darkened color of their skin or something else? If it was the darkness of their skin, how does that explain their idleness and mischief? If it was something else, what was it? What is the relationship between the curse and the idleness?

2 Ne 5:20-25: These verses seem problematic to many. At first glance it appears that God is cursing the Lamanites for their lack of obedience by giving them black skin. If God gives black skin as a punishment (or curse), that seems to suggest that those with black skin are inferior in the eyes of God. But this is not what we want to believe of God, because it suggests an imperfection in him who has no imperfection. On the other hand, modifying our views on the equality of different races is an unacceptable way of resolving the tension. What is the best way to read these verses in order to resolve the tension? What is a faithful, yet less disturbing, reading of this verse?

Is it reasonable to interpret the nature of the cursing as being cut off from the present of the Lord (see v.20)? What does it mean to be cut off from the presence of the Lord? No more angels for Laman and Lemuel? No more working Liahona? No more Holy Ghost? No more contemporary prophet? In what way do the Nephites enjoy the presence of the Lord that the Lamanites do not?

What do these verses about being cut off from the presence of the Lord suggest about his nature? Many members find comfort in the view that we move away from the Lord rather than him moving away from us. But in these verses, the Lamanites are "cut off" from the Lord's presence (see v.20). He "causes" the curse to come on them (v. 21) and he "causes" the skin of blackness to come on them (v.21). He "causes" that they become loathsome (v.22). In other words, when Laman and Lemuel are cut off from the presence of the Lord, this isn't simply something that do to themselves, but something that the Lord has done to them.

What other scriptures can we look to for evidence that God doesn't value his children according to the color of their skin?

2 Ne 5:22: In verse 22, the Lord tells Nephi that he will cause the Lamanites to be loathsome to the Nephites.

What does loathsome mean? Are the Lamanites loathsome to the Nephites because they have black skin? Are they loathsome because they are idle (see v. 24)? Are they loathsome because of some other aspect of the curse? Are they loathsome as a result of their iniquities and failure to hearken or are they loathsome as a result of the curse the Lord causes because of the Lamanites' iniquities and failure to hearken? Verse 22 suggests that if the Lamanites were to change their ways then they would not be loathsome. Is this because they would no longer have black skins (no need for the Lord to worry about whether they are enticing to the Nephites if they are on the strait and narrow), or is it because the Nephites would have thought of being separated from the presence of the Lord as loathsome?

Why does the Lord make the Lamanites loathsome to the Nephites?

When the sons of Mosiah went to preach to the Lamanites did they see them as loathsome? More broadly, did the people of King Mosiah continue to see the Lamanites as loathsome during this time period?

2 Ne 5:23: In verse 23, we are told that those who mix with the Lamanites will be cursed with the same cursing. A natural way to intepret this is to suppose that the Lamanites are given the curse of black skin and anyone who mixes with them gets black skin. But what if we interpret the curse to mean being cut off from the presence of the Lord? Can verse 23 reasonably be read this way? Those who mix with the Lamanites will be cut off from the presence of the Lord just as the Lamanites were--a sore cursing indeed.

2 Ne 5:24: How does the cursing that the Lamanites receive cause them to become idle?

2 Ne 5:27: Nephi says that he and his people “lived after the manner of happiness.” What does that phrase say that “we lived happily” doesn’t say? What is “the manner [or ‘way’] of happiness"?

This section is for listing links and print resources, including those that are also cited elsewhere on this page. A short comment about the particular strengths of a resource can be helpful. Click the link above and to the right to edit or add content to this heading. →

2 Ne 5:18.Here is an article by Noel Reynolds about Nephi's relationship to kingship quite broadly.

Footnotes are not required but are encouraged for factual assertions that average readers cannot easily evaluate for themselves (such as the date of King Solomon’s death or the nuanced definition of a Greek word). In contrast, insights rarely benefit from footnoting, and the focus of this page should always remain on the scriptures themselves rather than what someone has said about them. Links are actively encouraged on all sections of this page, and links to authoritative sources (such as Strong's Bible Concordance or the Joseph Smith Papers) are preferable to footnotes.

This section is for detailed discussion such as the meaning of a symbol, how a doctrinal point is developed throughout a passage, or insights that can be further developed in the future. Contributions may range from polished paragraphs down to a single bullet point. The focus, however, should always be on understanding the scriptural text consistent with LDS doctrine. Click the link above and to the right to edit or add content to this heading. →

This section is for questions along the lines of "I still don't understand ..." Please do not be shy. The point of these questions is to identify things that still need to be addressed on this page. Click the link above and to the right to edit or add content to this heading. →

This section is for prompts that suggest ways in which a passage can influence a person's life. Prompts may be appropriate either for private self reflection or for a class discussion. Click the link above and to the right to edit or add content to this heading. →

This section is for prompts that invite us to think about a passage more deeply or in a new way. These are not necessarily questions that beg for answers, but rather prompts along the lines of "Have you ever thought about ..." Prompts are most helpful when they are developed individually, thoughtfully, and with enough background information to clearly indicate a particular direction for further study or thought. Click the link above and to the right to edit or add content to this heading. →

2 Ne 5:1-7: Contrast v. 1 with 2 Nephi 4:27-29. Following the pattern of Moses and Israel that Nephi has referred to on several occasions, Nephi leaves Laman and Lemuel, taking his family and those who would follow him into the wilderness. The Doctrine and Covenants uses a related imagery when it commands us to leave Babylon, (See, for example, D&C 133:5, 7, and 14). What kinds of meanings can this type have for us today? How can we leave “Babylon” and go into the wilderness? Where is the wilderness today?

2 Ne 5:6: Does the phrase "also my sisters" suggest that all Nephi's sisters went with him?

Verse 5:18: Nephi states that he did not want his people to have a king, but he doesn't explain why or what other options he considered before giving in to their request. Was Nephi thinking of 1 Samuel 8, when Samuel was faced with a similar challenge? How might Nephi's aversion to monarchy be connected with political developments in the last years of the Southern Kingdom?

2 Ne 5:19: When Nephi says he became his people’s ruler and teacher, is he using these two words to say the same thing (as Gen 1:1 does when it says that the world was “without form and void” in the beginning, or when an angry sister tells her brother to “shut up and be quiet"), or is he saying he was two things, that he was a ruler and he was a teacher? If we think of “ruler and teacher” as two ways of saying the same thing, what might that tell us about being a ruler? A father or mother? Does it say anything about contemporary politics? If we think of “ruler and teacher” as different things here, what does that tell us about Nephi’s relation to his people?

2 Ne 5:20-25: Reading these verses in the post Civil Rights era is uncomfortable for many. What options for interpretation are available here? What is the curse that came upon those who followed Laman and Lemuel? Was it the darkened color of their skin or something else? If it was the darkness of their skin, how does that explain their idleness and mischief? If it was something else, what was it? What is the relationship between the curse and the idleness?

2 Ne 5:20-25: These verses seem problematic to many. At first glance it appears that God is cursing the Lamanites for their lack of obedience by giving them black skin. If God gives black skin as a punishment (or curse), that seems to suggest that those with black skin are inferior in the eyes of God. But this is not what we want to believe of God, because it suggests an imperfection in him who has no imperfection. On the other hand, modifying our views on the equality of different races is an unacceptable way of resolving the tension. What is the best way to read these verses in order to resolve the tension? What is a faithful, yet less disturbing, reading of this verse?

Is it reasonable to interpret the nature of the cursing as being cut off from the present of the Lord (see v.20)? What does it mean to be cut off from the presence of the Lord? No more angels for Laman and Lemuel? No more working Liahona? No more Holy Ghost? No more contemporary prophet? In what way do the Nephites enjoy the presence of the Lord that the Lamanites do not?

What do these verses about being cut off from the presence of the Lord suggest about his nature? Many members find comfort in the view that we move away from the Lord rather than him moving away from us. But in these verses, the Lamanites are "cut off" from the Lord's presence (see v.20). He "causes" the curse to come on them (v. 21) and he "causes" the skin of blackness to come on them (v.21). He "causes" that they become loathsome (v.22). In other words, when Laman and Lemuel are cut off from the presence of the Lord, this isn't simply something that do to themselves, but something that the Lord has done to them.

What other scriptures can we look to for evidence that God doesn't value his children according to the color of their skin?

2 Ne 5:22: In verse 22, the Lord tells Nephi that he will cause the Lamanites to be loathsome to the Nephites.

What does loathsome mean? Are the Lamanites loathsome to the Nephites because they have black skin? Are they loathsome because they are idle (see v. 24)? Are they loathsome because of some other aspect of the curse? Are they loathsome as a result of their iniquities and failure to hearken or are they loathsome as a result of the curse the Lord causes because of the Lamanites' iniquities and failure to hearken? Verse 22 suggests that if the Lamanites were to change their ways then they would not be loathsome. Is this because they would no longer have black skins (no need for the Lord to worry about whether they are enticing to the Nephites if they are on the strait and narrow), or is it because the Nephites would have thought of being separated from the presence of the Lord as loathsome?

Why does the Lord make the Lamanites loathsome to the Nephites?

When the sons of Mosiah went to preach to the Lamanites did they see them as loathsome? More broadly, did the people of King Mosiah continue to see the Lamanites as loathsome during this time period?

2 Ne 5:23: In verse 23, we are told that those who mix with the Lamanites will be cursed with the same cursing. A natural way to intepret this is to suppose that the Lamanites are given the curse of black skin and anyone who mixes with them gets black skin. But what if we interpret the curse to mean being cut off from the presence of the Lord? Can verse 23 reasonably be read this way? Those who mix with the Lamanites will be cut off from the presence of the Lord just as the Lamanites were--a sore cursing indeed.

2 Ne 5:24: How does the cursing that the Lamanites receive cause them to become idle?

2 Ne 5:27: Nephi says that he and his people “lived after the manner of happiness.” What does that phrase say that “we lived happily” doesn’t say? What is “the manner [or ‘way’] of happiness"?

This section is for listing links and print resources, including those that are also cited elsewhere on this page. A short comment about the particular strengths of a resource can be helpful. Click the link above and to the right to edit or add content to this heading. →

2 Ne 5:18.Here is an article by Noel Reynolds about Nephi's relationship to kingship quite broadly.

Footnotes are not required but are encouraged for factual assertions that average readers cannot easily evaluate for themselves (such as the date of King Solomon’s death or the nuanced definition of a Greek word). In contrast, insights rarely benefit from footnoting, and the focus of this page should always remain on the scriptures themselves rather than what someone has said about them. Links are actively encouraged on all sections of this page, and links to authoritative sources (such as Strong's Bible Concordance or the Joseph Smith Papers) are preferable to footnotes.