This from a conversation I'm having with a lifelong good friend of mine living in north Cal. He comes from a family of classical musicians, plays half a dozen instruments brilliantly, composes and... well, you get the picture. He's played keyboards in a few ska and metal bands that have made it big in that scene in north cal.

He's just quit all that for a pop band about to put out their first single under Capitol Records. And he loves it. This is why there's so little good in the alt and semi-alt world anymore. All our talent gets stolen by the easy girls and easy money of the mainstream.

Nothin I can say. No reason to anyway, as they haven't released even a single yet, there's nothing to know about them yet really. I'll give ya an update when there's somethin ta say if I remember.

Well of course there's the option of stopping. It's not like the mainstream schlock really requires effort, just personality, so even lasting contracts shouldn't be to hard to fulfill while dropping back into the alt to make real stuff again.

Well I guess your friend also needs to pay his bills. Doing mainstream music for a certain period can also be a new inspiring experience for an otherwise indy-oriented musician. With pockets full of cash, he can go back to high quality projects afterwards – or take the downwards spiral of drugs, depression, fame, self-destruction...

There's no reason why your friend can't do both (time and post-party/girls exhaustion permitting, of course). Look at how Gary Oldman funded his movie Nil By Mouth by playing the baddie in Air Force One. Or the countless writers who wrote pieces for soft-core porn mags to pay the bills while they wrote the stuff they actually loved.

He'll be spending quite a bit of time on tour at least near the beginning. But I'm sure when he's at home he'll happily run around hopping from band to band, staying just long enough to get all the good and then taking his awesome somewhere else. As usual.

i thought this was going to be about AGAINST ME! haha."And he loves it. This is why there's so little good in the alt and semi-alt world anymore. All our talent gets stolen by the easy girls and easy money of the mainstream. "

seriously though, there is a TON of good music out there that is independent and fully functioning outside of the industry. the amount of records i have released by some random dude helping out a band or the shows i've seen in living rooms and storage units refreshes me every time it happens. sure, there are still a handful of major label bands worth a shit, but most of it is lowest common denominator drivel.

however, i don't see the problem with him making a little money doing side projects like this. thats not really selling out. if one of the ska or metal projects had decided to start playing like dave matthews to make some money, however thats different.

I have never found a shortage of amazing music in the underground, and now that nearly every band in existence has mp3s all over the place, it's even easier. Just have to look is all.

As far as selling out goes, yeah I would do it. Make a ton of cash, retire young, make obscure music for the rest of my life without having to worry about stupid day to day shit like bills? Sign me up.

side comment not relevant to the discussion: ARES, i have only been on here a week or so, but we seem to be in a similar mindset on most musical discussions (if not genres!). its always nice, like when i find someone who reads good comics on a hardcore board.

Well... I can kind of see his point. I spent years working crappy day jobs and playing original music in my spare time and eventually it made me quite unhappy. Now I play in covers bands - yeah, weddings, parties, corporate events, that whole scene - and do front-of-house sound on live shows for certain mainstream pop artists. It leaves me no time to be in originals bands... but I still have fun and I get paid to do something I enjoy.

On the other hand, I did spend a few months last year playing for a commercial pop project that's managed by someone that also deals with various Pop Idol types... and I really hated that. There was a major discussion over whether I looked young enough - it was decided that we'd lie about my age, which was 27 at the time - and another over whether my guitar looked cool enough. At least playing weddings and corporate parties means I'm an HONEST whore - I'm not sucking cock and calling myself a courtesan.

Give him his chance to sell out. If he's lucky, it'll fund the rest of his life. Very few people in entertainment achieve lasting huge success. But Don Mclean lives better than all of us on one forty year old track.

Just been thinking further on this subject. About 12 years ago, I was ranting to a friend of mine who was already a professional session player about my hatred of Take That. He said that I'd jump at the chance to be in a band like that. The teenaged me disagreed and offered violence upon his person for his temerity in suggesting that I, a REAL musician, would sing and dance like a monkey with a damaged central nervous system. He pointed out that my recompense for doing so would be millions of pounds, an unlimited supply of teenage girls willing to satisfy my basest requests and the freedom to do whatever the fuck I like once it was done. I said I still wouldn't do it and he laughed at me. Within a few years, once I had a clue what the world is actually about, I came to agree with him.

I forgot the best Sell Out story I know, the ex-bassist for Hammers of Misfortune (great band from Northern California), she "sold out" by joining P!nk on tour, got some mad money, and then returned home with said cash in hand to fund the recording of the Hammers debut album, which of course myself and about 50 other people know (and love). Integrity intact, cash on the barrelhead.

side comment not relevant to the discussion: ARES, i have only been on here a week or so, but we seem to be in a similar mindset on most musical discussions (if not genres!). its always nice, like when i find someone who reads good comics on a hardcore board.

Does that mean I can talk about Old Man Gloom with someone on here? :)

not quite, you seem to like stuff thats generally too slow for me. BUT it looks like you are on the same track as far as diy and truly underground music. i will take what happens next and charles bronson over OMG any day. ;)

also: why am i a retard that can't figure out the quote mechanism on this board?

If I hadn't sold out by writing medical drama tv, I wouldn't have gained the professional credibility which makes it possible for me to promote projects I'm more passionate and serious about to people who could make them. And I learned a lot by writing those scripts, some of which was useful and will stay with me: I also made contacts who I maintain links with, who I like and whose opinions I value.

is it really selling out to write for tv though? i dont think so-unless your goal was to write the elusive diy, independently operated tv dramas. of which there are none. i could see if you were self publishing brutal crime dramas, then flipped the switch and started writing for abc/disney, but if writing is what you want to do it makes sense to write where the work is. i don't know your situation though so i'm just kind of rambling here....

If the words didn't make my tone apparent, I'm clearly not much of a writer: my point is a facetious one, that I don't much believe in the notion of 'selling out'. More often than not, it is a myth peddled by those who don't have much to offer: the people I know who are passionate and serious about their artform get on with it and make stuff, whatever it happens to be. The others sneer from the sidelines, and never get round to it. Like the bozos I met at a squat some years ago who said things like 'I want to paint, but you know what it's like living in a squat'. Hmm. Not paying rent makes it impossible to put brush to canvas?