“In a Runoff between PD and M5S, I’d Cast a Blank Vote”

Forza Italia leader: we’ll fight to ensure the referendum on reform is unsuccessful

di Francesco Verderami

“I have the impression that many western leaders are unaware of how serious the situation is. This may be due to a lack of experience, a lack of ideas, fear, or ideological conditioning... Whatever the reason, I’m extremely concerned about the way things are going”. Silvio Berlusconi points the finger at western leaders, called upon to deal with the international crisis. He hopes for a “grand alliance” with Russia to combat jihadist terrorism, observing that his “foreign policy has always been based on cooperation” between Europe, Washington and Moscow, “starting with the agreement at Pratica di Mare, that brought an end to the Cold War”.

The former premier maintains that in recent years a large number of “serious mistakes [have been made] by the West”, starting with the “late, clumsy attempt to take credit for the so-called Arab Spring”. “We were unable to either predict the uprisings or provide support. Perhaps to avoid being accused of interventionism, as happened to Bush, the Obama administration has decided not to intervene in the Middle East. Nevertheless, in what was apparently contradictory behaviour, it then pushed for regime change in Libya, explaining that the aim was to protect defenceless civilians. In this way, the West allowed the destabilization of North Africa and the Middle East, without offering any plans or prospects for a new political order in the area, and thus paving the way for Islamic extremism”.

As if the Caliphate were not enough, there is now a clash between the West’s friends Putin and Erdogan. The former has gone so far as to accuse the latter of shooting down a Russian military jet in order to “cover up its trade with Isis”.

“I hope and believe that it was an accident, but I understand why Putin feels “betrayed” by a country which, like Russia, is opposed to IS. Rather than establish who is right, it is crucial that we ensure that this kind of thing never happens again. We must all realise that Russia is an indispensable ally, not an enemy. As far as regards Turkey, in recent years it has changed in ways that I disagree with. But this too is our responsibility. In the past, I fought for Turkey’s entry into the EU, and was always hindered by the prejudices of many European countries, in particular France and Germany. The best part of Turkey wanted to become European, but we shut it out, so it was inevitable that other forces prevailed in a nation straddling East and West”.

If a “grand alliance” could be established against IS, should Italy also participate in ground operations in Syria? Do you think we are ready for a war, and prepared to lose soldiers in battle?“We can’t delude ourselves that others will fight our wars for us, and then expect to reap the benefits. Of course, each country’s involvement will depend on its means and possibilities, but we will certainly have to do something. I believe that the first task of an Italian prime minister is to respect our country’s identity and history, according to the example of De Gasperi and those that followed him, which allowed us to act as a cohesive force within alliances. I have always been committed to fostering understanding between Russia and the West, and continue to work on this front. In these dramatic times, I am willing to help my country support the establishment of a coalition under the aegis of the UN. A meeting in Italy of the most important leaders in the fight against Islamic State would have an important organisational and symbolic value”.

The Italian prime minister believes that Syria should not “repeat the mistakes made in Libya”. Do you share his prudent approach, in the absence of plans for the future of the area? Your ally Salvini, meanwhile, is ready to go to war.“Of course I agree that we must not repeat the mistakes made in Libya. As for Renzi, being reluctant to wage war on Assad’s regime in the absence of a better alternative is a wise attitude. But being reluctant to fight IS – which is Assad’s mortal enemy – is an ambiguity we can ill afford”.

Don’t you think that active intervention by Italy in the conflict could lead to terrorist attacks here?“Fearfulness is not going to protect us, that’s for sure. The only way to be safe is to tackle the problem at its roots. IS is a criminal organisation, but with clear aims and a highly-developed sense of politics. Its strategy is based on attacking and emphasising the West’s weaknesses”.

You are asking the government for “fewer taxes and more security”: does this mean you are satisfied with the cuts proposed by Renzi on property tax and his announcement of a billion euros to be spent on fighting terrorism?“We were the ones who abolished property tax back in 2008, only for it to be reintroduced by the Democratic Party (PD). Renzi has simply restored the situation to how we left it. He’s doing the right thing, but they aren’t his ideas. The current situation requires more incisive action if we are to really achieve recovery. And in any case, any tax cuts need to be funded by reducing waste in public expenditure, not by producing deficits and debt. As for security, it’s right to earmark funds for this, provided the government actually does so, although they should be investing even more. In any case, however, extra funding is useless unless we also give the forces of order the legislative tools they need to deal with emergencies. What’s more, I am disgusted by the way that Renzi has taken advantage of the situation to announce electoral hand-outs, once again funded by taking on debt, such as giving €500 to 18-year-olds so that they can go to the cinema. For good measure, he has also cancelled the small reduction on corporation tax he had promised businesses.

Despite the war, local government elections are on the horizon. Who would you vote for in Rome: Marchini or Meloni? And who would you choose for Milan, Sallusti or Salvini?“Meloni and Marchini are both superb candidates. Both have got what it takes to rescue Rome from the disastrous state it has been reduced to by the PD. In Milan, Sallusti is an excellent opportunity. Salvini would also be a top-class candidate, but I think that he himself has ruled out the idea, since he would prefer to remain party secretary”.

If you want to “bring together the entire centre-right” as you say you want to, wouldn’t it be more logical to adopt the “Lombardy model” proposed by the regional governor Maroni, and to form an alliance with the New Centre Right (NCD)?“But I agree with the idea, and so does Salvini. Just that he says ‘everyone except Alfano’”.

If the PD were to lose the local elections, would you demand the government’s resignation and early elections, or do you think they should continue until the natural end of the legislature?“General elections should be held anyway, regardless of the local election results, in order to re-establish democracy. For the last four years Italy has been run by unelected governments. Renzi is governing with a majority composed of MPs elected in the ranks of the centre-right who, by supporting him, have betrayed their electorate, and by MPs who have a seat in Parliament thanks to the “majority bonus” that the Constitutional Court, despite being composed mainly of left-wing judges, has found to be unconstitutional. In Italy over the last 20 years we have continuously seen the will of the electorate disregarded, in a series of what in effect have been coups d’état”.

Will you set up committees to encourage people to vote against the very constitutional reform that you yourselves supported for a time in Parliament? Aren’t you afraid that if you lose, the centre-right’s new project will be scuppered?“But I’m certain we’ll win the referendum. And in order to do so, we will oppose in every way possible a reform that is tailor-made for the PD, which would allow this party, with the vote of only one Italian in six, to subjugate the country. Moreover, just think what would happen if this mechanism, that Renzi created for himself, resulted in a government headed by Grillo. This is not just an abstract hypothesis; all the polls say that in a runoff between the PD and the Five Star Movement (M5S), the latter would win. And the disasters Grillo’s party has caused in the cities it governs are there for all to see. The thing that distinguishes his MPs is that before being elected to Parliament none of them had done anything worthwhile, either for themselves or their families. They are incapable of running a town, let alone a whole country. This is why we need a strong centre-right, that can say “no” to the referendum and win the general elections, beating both the PD and the M5S in the first round”.

And what if, as you fear, there ended up being a runoff between Renzi and Grillo’s candidate, who would you vote for?“I’m concerned that many centre-right voters, especially those of the Northern League, might be tempted to vote for Grillo’s candidate, solely to break the PD’s hold on power. Personally, like many Forza Italia voters, I would cast a blank vote. But we’re talking about a real nightmare scenario here; we won’t let it come to this.