Why is it that being respectful .... Topic

Posted by bcsuperfan23 on 11/22/2010 9:15:00 PM (view original):The question cummings is not why do you fight once you are in uniform, but why you make the choice to put it on in the first place. If it was because of this sense to fight for your country's freedom and the cause of democracy then you were unfortunatly misinformed and people need to stop the spread of this misinformation

Misinformed? You, sir, are the one who has been misinformed. When you live for something greater than your own self-interest, write me back and tell me how you feel about sacrificing a part of your life and soul for something bigger than you can imagine. You are going to interpret what I said as some sort of misguided patriotism because you have no idea what I mean when I say living for something greater than your own self-interest.

Could you please articulate what that thing is which is greater ? Beyond this MISINFORMED sense of "fighting for our freedom" what is it? You say I dont understand, well then explain it to me so that I can. Why can you not do that. Yea I live for my own self intrest, but speaking out on these boards is in the intrest of my unborn children and the rest of America's citizens

A vital element in keeping the peace is our military establishment. Our arms must be mighty, ready for instant action, so that no potential aggressor may be tempted to risk his own destruction.

Our military organization today bears little relation to that known by any of my predecessors in peacetime, or indeed by the fighting men of World War II or Korea.

Until the latest of our world conflicts, the United States had no armaments industry. American makers of plowshares could, with time and as required, make swords as well. But now we can no longer risk emergency improvisation of national defense; we have been compelled to create a permanent armaments industry of vast proportions. Added to this, three and a half million men and women are directly engaged in the defense establishment. We annually spend on military security more than the net income of all United States corporations.

This conjunction of an immense military establishment and a large arms industry is new in the American experience. The total influence – economic, political, even spiritual – is felt in every city, every Statehouse, every office of the Federal government. We recognize the imperative need for this development. Yet we must not fail to comprehend its grave implications. Our toil, resources and livelihood are all involved; so is the very structure of our society.

In the councils of government, we must guard against the acquisition of unwarranted influence, whether sought or unsought, by the military-industrial complex. The potential for the disastrous rise of misplaced power exists and will persist.

We must never let the weight of this combination endanger our liberties or democratic processes. We should take nothing for granted. Only an alert and knowledgeable citizenry can compel the proper meshing of the huge industrial and military machinery of defense with our peaceful methods and goals, so that security and liberty may prosper together.

Akin to, and largely responsible for the sweeping changes in our industrial-military posture, has been the technological revolution during recent decades.

In this revolution, research has become central, it also becomes more formalized, complex, and costly. A steadily increasing share is conducted for, by, or at the direction of, the Federal government.

Today, the solitary inventor, tinkering in his shop, has been overshadowed by task forces of scientists in laboratories and testing fields. In the same fashion, the free university, historically the fountainhead of free ideas and scientific discovery, has experienced a revolution in the conduct of research. Partly because of the huge costs involved, a government contract becomes virtually a substitute for intellectual curiosity. For every old blackboard there are now hundreds of new electronic computers.

The prospect of domination of the nation's scholars by Federal employment, project allocations, and the power of money is ever present – and is gravely to be regarded.

Yet, in holding scientific research and discovery in respect, as we should, we must also be alert to the equal and opposite danger that public policy could itself become the captive of a scientific-technological elite.

Who is this even directed towards? Yes we have a large military to dissuade attacks, and the government spends a ton of money on new ways to save soldiers' lives and kill our enemies faster, better, cheaper, and from farther away. What does that have to do with anything?

Posted by bcsuperfan23 on 11/22/2010 9:15:00 PM (view original):
The question cummings is not why do you fight once you are in uniform, but why you make the choice to put it on in the first place. If it was because of this sense to fight for your country's freedom and the cause of democracy then you were unfortunatly misinformed and people need to stop the spread of this misinformation

Misinformed? You, sir, are the one who has been misinformed. When you live for something greater than your own self-interest, write me back and tell me how you feel about sacrificing a part of your life and soul for something bigger than you can imagine. You are going to interpret what I said as some sort of misguided patriotism because you have no idea what I mean when I say living for something greater than your own self-interest.

Could you please articulate what that thing is which is greater ? Beyond this MISINFORMED sense of "fighting for our freedom" what is it? You say I dont understand, well then explain it to me so that I can. Why can you not do that. Yea I live for my own self intrest, but speaking out on these boards is in the intrest of my unborn children and the rest of America's citizens

________________________________________________

The American citizens got bored by page 4 and your unborn kids called me and said you're embarassing them.

It has to do with the size of the military and the amount of money which is geared toward funding the war machine. Simply put, you cant justify spending so much money on the military if you are not going to be fighting in any wars. If you buy 20 new bombers at $500 million a piece you arent going to just let them sit at some American air force base collecting dust, you are going to deploy them somewhere and drop some damn bombs. When that happens the people who profit from the sale and construction of those bombers are going to have influence over the decision to engage in conflict, which is wrong. That is what it has to do with.

Hey potter, like I said many times. Come at me with some tangible facts and I will shut up. Also, if people were so bored by page 4 there would have been no page 8. If this reaches one persons ears positivly then it has all been worth it.

Also, why not? the rest of these boards are just ******** about the update (which blows hard by the way, WIS can blow me with their free season). As a political science major I find this debate extremely interesting and am honestly just waiting for someone to truly challenge my beliefs with something good and intelligent being said in opposition to my posts. Thats what i think you guys don't get, im not totally resolved in my position that I would refuse to accept an intelligent argument against it. Its just that no one has presented such an argument to me. Either agree with me, dont respond to the post or actually say something which is not based completely off some indescribable feeling or belief but rather in fact

You are tying "fighting for your freedom" with something bigger than yourself. One day, you may have children. When that day arrives, you will do one of two things. You will forget your responsibilities as a parent, or you will not. If you do not, you will understand what it means to sacrifice for something other than your own self-fulfillment. One day, you may under take a cause that is not in your own self-interest and one which you will gain no benefit or advantage. Then you will understand to what I am referring. Until that day arrives, you will be yet another 20 something kid that thinks you know how the world works and that there are alternatives to war. You have no clue how the world works and you cannot name a signal conflict that has been resolved through means other than war.

crcummings, thank you.. I do not commnicate as well as you or others. This kid just doesn't get it. I can understand that. I can remember when I knew it all. I can remember when my son knew it all. It wasn;t all that long ago my son said: "gee dad, you get smarter the older I get." I felt that way about my father. These kids think they are experiencing stuff for the first time and nobody ever was in their shoes. This kid has a little bit of knowledge and experience and thinks he has all the answers. Some never grow out of it. It's too bad.

Bc you need to bone up on Romam History and not get it all off of the telly. By the time Rome fell the Ceasar had no power. Oh crap I just read he was a political science major. Please tell me where you spread this crap so my grandkids won't go near you. Probably Berkley if I was to guess or at least got your education there. If I wanted them to be a communist I'd send them to China. I don't like your beliefs. You're not my kind of people.

Posted by crcummings on 11/23/2010 7:24:00 AM (view original):You are tying "fighting for your freedom" with something bigger than yourself. One day, you may have children. When that day arrives, you will do one of two things. You will forget your responsibilities as a parent, or you will not. If you do not, you will understand what it means to sacrifice for something other than your own self-fulfillment. One day, you may under take a cause that is not in your own self-interest and one which you will gain no benefit or advantage. Then you will understand to what I am referring. Until that day arrives, you will be yet another 20 something kid that thinks you know how the world works and that there are alternatives to war. You have no clue how the world works and you cannot name a signal conflict that has been resolved through means other than war.

You have yet to put into words what this thing is which is "greater than myself" that you speak of. You can still not describe what it is that these men and women are choosing to put on the uniform and sacrifice there lives for other than this lie that they are protecting America. Yea, I dont have kids but what does having kids have anything to do with this argument? I have repeatedly asked the same question, for you to describe to me with tangible evidence what exactly it is our troops are fighting for other than the greedy intrests of defense contractors yet all you continue to do is speak about these "indescribable" feelings which is a complete and utter cop out. You cant tell me because you don't know, all you know what to say is the same propaganda which you have been taught to say. The reason I cant name any conflicts that havnt needed war to resolve them is because "conflict" is a very warlike term. My proposal is to avoid the conflict all together. Why is that a problem, if you dont start conflict you wont need war to resolve it. And yea there are alternatives to war, have you ever heard of the word diplomacy?

Posted by bcsuperfan23 on 11/23/2010 12:43:00 AM (view original):It has to do with the size of the military and the amount of money which is geared toward funding the war machine. Simply put, you cant justify spending so much money on the military if you are not going to be fighting in any wars. If you buy 20 new bombers at $500 million a piece you arent going to just let them sit at some American air force base collecting dust, you are going to deploy them somewhere and drop some damn bombs. When that happens the people who profit from the sale and construction of those bombers are going to have influence over the decision to engage in conflict, which is wrong. That is what it has to do with.

Obviously you've never actually worked in any government capacity because there really are billions of dollars in equipment collecting dust at every military post around the world.

Posted by grindi on 11/23/2010 8:27:00 AM (view original):crcummings, thank you.. I do not commnicate as well as you or others. This kid just doesn't get it. I can understand that. I can remember when I knew it all. I can remember when my son knew it all. It wasn;t all that long ago my son said: "gee dad, you get smarter the older I get." I felt that way about my father. These kids think they are experiencing stuff for the first time and nobody ever was in their shoes. This kid has a little bit of knowledge and experience and thinks he has all the answers. Some never grow out of it. It's too bad.

Bc you need to bone up on Romam History and not get it all off of the telly. By the time Rome fell the Ceasar had no power. Oh crap I just read he was a political science major. Please tell me where you spread this crap so my grandkids won't go near you. Probably Berkley if I was to guess or at least got your education there. If I wanted them to be a communist I'd send them to China. I don't like your beliefs. You're not my kind of people.

Grindi, you still are bringing ZERO into the debate. Legit ZERO. I dont care how old you are or what your "expierience" is. Because unless you were a board member of Haliburton or a top US military commander or US Senator you have exactly as much "experience" in this argument as I do. We are both basing our arguments on (in my case) facts we have learned and (in your case) most likely Faux News. So relax with that argument, you do not have any special knowlegde on the subject simply because of your advanced age.

Oh, and what is it with this Berkley Communist stuff lmao. This isnt 69 anymore, its ok you can come out of the closet the hippies are gone now. Nothing to be scared of. I bet I can make a healthy assumption that given the chance you would have contributed heavily to Nixon's campaign right? And its a shame that you don't want your kids around "my kind of people" and would have them stay away from the University I attened. Exposing your kids to only the type of education you belive in could be very damaging. You dont want to start them off at life intellectually handicapped do you? The only way to expierance knowledge is to expose yourself to conflicting viewpoint and actually have to analayze and determine for yourself what is right and wrong. Not just grow up some sheltered existnce because your father was to pigheaded and selfish to let you areound those scary libs lol.

And where do you get im a communist ahahaha? How about you give me a definition of communisim in your own words, not from a google search. Id bet all the money in the world that you could not do that based soley on your use of the word trying to insult me lol

Actually a communist is high praise for what I really think of you. I want nothing to do with you and will have you blocked from now on. You're disgusting. By the way jackass, My father died when I was young fighting for morons like you. Go fu_ k yourself. Sorry guys I'm not as eloquent as the rest of you.

Grindi, why can you not participate in an intelligent debate? I think it is because you have nothing intelligent to say. I too have had close relatives die in the service, but that doesnt change the fact that they died fighting for a corrupt system which lied to them and not for me or you. Yea, they probably thought they did but that doesnt change the fact that they didnt. Maybe if they were more aware of what was actually going on with our military they would still be here to share Thanksgiving dinner with me this week. Im sorry about your father, but you cant let that get in the way of the truth.

What do you really think of me? Im disgusting? Why? because I am unafraid to speak the harsh truths of what is really going on in the world? Just because you are ignorant to the realities of what is driving our foriegn policy does not make me the bad guy. Its sad that you would tell me to go f*** myself and hold such ill will towards me. I hold none of this toward you. I am simply trying to engage in an intelligent discussion which it seems that you are reluctant to do.

Maybe if you actually had any evidence or fact to support your position you wouldnt be acting in such a way and we could have a productive discussion without you resorting to these laughable efforts to try and discredit me.

Posted by bcsuperfan23 on 11/23/2010 12:43:00 AM (view original):It has to do with the size of the military and the amount of money which is geared toward funding the war machine. Simply put, you cant justify spending so much money on the military if you are not going to be fighting in any wars. If you buy 20 new bombers at $500 million a piece you arent going to just let them sit at some American air force base collecting dust, you are going to deploy them somewhere and drop some damn bombs. When that happens the people who profit from the sale and construction of those bombers are going to have influence over the decision to engage in conflict, which is wrong. That is what it has to do with.

Obviously you've never actually worked in any government capacity because there really are billions of dollars in equipment collecting dust at every military post around the world.

first, the fact that there are billions of dollars worth of weapons collecting dust is irrelavant, those weapons were most likely already used to kill some poor schmuch somewhere.

Second, of course the contractors dictate policy. Who do you think finances the campaigns for those congressmen to get elected? Answer me this, why are the parts for a single fighter plane manufactured in like 30 different states? Because, it forces congressmen to support the building of new ones so as not to lose a few hundred jobs, and as a result hundreds of votes, back in their home districts. This is not done by coincidence. These corporations and lobbyists have intertwined themselves so much with our government officials its getting so hard to tell who is working in whose interest anymore. Yea, the congressmen dictate the policy but when a congressman who voted to increase military spending and go to war retires from office and then immedeatly gets a job making 5 million a year to lobby for Haliburton I think it is safe to say that there was something nefarious going on and make the leap that those corporations do in fact hold an influence over policy

bc, I have put into words what you fail to grasp. That is the problem, you do not understand. It is not my failure to explain. You believe people put on the uniform to protect the American way. That is but a small part of the reasons people wear the uniform. Being part of something bigger than yourself is a simple, yet difficult to understand concept. Someday you may get it. Have you ever given directions to a total stranger? Have you ever picked up a candy wrapper from the sidewalk and placed it in a trash can when nobody was watching? Those are examples of what I it means to be part of something greater than yourself, but on a much smaller scale.