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Prospects are just that. Prospects. Even the best prospects fail sometimes. And because of that, you have to pay a high price if u want. Cy Young pitcher who's been good for a few years and keeps getting better. Age matters little here, as he doesn't have many career innings and virtually no wear and tear.

I'm a big advocate of trading for Dickey, even at a high price tag... so you don't have to talk to me about his age or being a knuckleballer, I know lots about his background. I'd also be annoyed by other fans using the "1 good year argument" which is bogus... he's been good for 3 years now....

But if you think you're going to get d'Arnaud, Gose and Sanchez for him then I'm sure every team will just tell you to keep him. Same with Olt, Perez, <someone> from the Rangers and any other top 3 prospects you can list from other farm systems. It just doesn't make any sense, teams have learned from their past mistakes selling the farm for one player in a contract year.

So, as I said in my previous post that bares repeating - keep him... don't give him his very reasonable contract demands and let him walk for nothing. I swear I feel like a broken record, I had the EXACT same arguments with Met fans when Reyes was about to be a free agent and I was told "good - we like him anyways so we want to keep him". That's great.... I hope the one year of Dickey puts fans in the seats, win/win for everyone involved.

Then feel free to keep him..... I have no issues with that at all. The longer you keep him without an extension the more his value tanks until you get to the point where he walks as a free agent.

Kinda like Reyes, which I mentioned in my previous post.

I mean, Jesus, we worked out a deal with the Phillies for Doc Halladay who has a much better track record AND he agreed to an extension - yet Toronto didn't get as much as you guys are asking for 1 year of Dickey.

So keep him - no one in Toronto will give a damn, I assure you.... but just like before the trade deadline on Reyes when you all thought you were going to get the moon, stars and sun for the guy he'll walk for a comp pick . I'm sure you'll be pleased with that return

Jays got Draebek, Taylor, and d'Arnaud who's now their top prospect and one of the best in mlb. At the time Draebek was one of the best pitching prospects out there. He just failed so far. Like I said in my previous post. That's why u have to give up multiple good prospects to get a Cy Young type pitcher, and hope at least one turns out good cuz most fail.

Then feel free to keep him..... I have no issues with that at all. The longer you keep him without an extension the more his value tanks until you get to the point where he walks as a free agent.

Kinda like Reyes, which I mentioned in my previous post.

I mean, Jesus, we worked out a deal with the Phillies for Doc Halladay who has a much better track record AND he agreed to an extension - yet Toronto didn't get as much as you guys are asking for 1 year of Dickey.

So keep him - no one in Toronto will give a damn, I assure you.... but just like before the trade deadline on Reyes when you all thought you were going to get the moon, stars and sun for the guy he'll walk for a comp pick . I'm sure you'll be pleased with that return

Doc had 1 year left on his contract when he was traded.
You guys received Kyle Drabek, Travis D'Arnaud and Michael Taylor.

"You don't know how to drink. Your whole generation, you drink for the wrong reasons. My generation, we drink because it's good, because it feels better than unbuttoning your collar, because we deserve it. We drink because it's what men do."

Jays got Draebek, Taylor, and d'Arnaud who's now their top prospect and one of the best in mlb. At the time Draebek was one of the best pitching prospects out there. He just failed so far. Like I said in my previous post. That's why u have to give up multiple good prospects to get a Cy Young type pitcher, and hope at least one turns out good cuz most fail.

d'Arnaud was an after thought in that trade at that time and they got Taylor because the Phillies wouldn't give them Gose (ironic huh?)

The whole package was for Drabek + some added prospects, again, at the time.... I don't think anyone, AA included, thought d'Arnaud would be as good as he is now and is easily the centerpiece around that trade, rather than Drabek.

If you want to compare, that would be something like:

SP Aaron Sanchez + C Jiminez + OF DJ Davis

Which - sure - I'll do that trade if I'm Toronto....

It does not come even close to comparing those pieces to what their value is like NOW.

Originally Posted by clayamtion

Doc had 1 year left on his contract when he was traded.
You guys received Kyle Drabek, Travis D'Arnaud and Michael Taylor.

You conveniently ignored the fact the Phillies had a window to extend him once the trade was completed. Which - obviously the Mets SHOULD ask for more if that turns out to be the case.

It was actually less than what was given to tampa, Tampa Bay negotiated for more than what was originally offered.

"You don't know how to drink. Your whole generation, you drink for the wrong reasons. My generation, we drink because it's good, because it feels better than unbuttoning your collar, because we deserve it. We drink because it's what men do."

I like Peterson, but Lee is overrated to me and both are not ready. I don't want to deal with the Dodgers.

D'Arnaud is the best player out of all those guys and he plays a premium position in catcher which is a huge need for us. I'm not pro-Gose, but he does bring a lot of nice secondary skills to the table and is still very young.

If we had a need at 3B, Olt and Martin would probably be the best package, but since Olt would play RF, he loses some value that was tied to him being a good defensive 3B. I still would love that deal though since D'Arnaud is not happening.

Agreed.

I will gladly take Olt and Martin for Dickey.

Its fills multiple needs and just makes a ton of sense.

Olt loses some value moving from 3B to LF/RF, but there is a chance that he makes a very smooth transition to the OF and with his plus arm, he could actually keep in tact most of his value. In the end, if he can hit...I want him. His 3B skills could actually be an asset to the team down the road too.

As far as including Martin in the deal, I feel it is very important in this deal. We need more than just Olt straight up. Martin fills a need at CF and is also Major League ready. There are concerns with him, but I love his skill set. It think he would make a great fit for us.

We are trading a Cy Young winner. 38 years old or not, we know what we have in him, and he has shown no signs of wear and tear. He has plenty left in the tank.

If the Rangers can't see that, and refuse to add in Martin to the deal...then screw them. I am fine with us keeping Dickey and extending him for 2 years.

We have to remember that these are prospects we are dealing with. They are not gauranteed Major League assets. We are trading a proven Cy Young award winner. There is no reason why we can't trade our Cy Young winner for 2 solid 24/25 year old prospects. Its a fair deal. I would basically tell the Rangers to take it or leave it.

Last edited by Wrigheyes4MVP; 12-10-2012 at 01:10 PM.

DUDA

Originally Posted by VendettaRed07

noah is gonna be a beast man.

with him and harvey, its like were gonna have Goku and Vegetta in the same rotation

AdamRubinESPN R.A. Dickey is playing elf tomorrow at Citi alongside Ike. Dickey already in town for non-#Mets appearance. But further suggests staying put

"You don't know how to drink. Your whole generation, you drink for the wrong reasons. My generation, we drink because it's good, because it feels better than unbuttoning your collar, because we deserve it. We drink because it's what men do."

F@#@ Sandy for not making a better deal (unless KC really had no interest in Dickey to begin with)
You might want Shields over Dickey for age - but not performance... and to keep Shields past this contract, its really going to cost them and I don't think their gonna want to keep him at that price. Also Davis isn't better than any other second player we could have packaged... this sucks.

They wanted Shields + Wade Davis. That is similar to the Wheeler + Niese trade as Shields > Niese but Wheeler > Davis. But Davis has pitched in the big leagues so he is experienced.

That's basically what it came down to. Getting two pitchers instead of one.

Well Shields and Davis have cost them more in talent now and will cost them more money sooner, than had they traded the Mets for players, that's what I think

I don't really understand why some people are upset with Sandy so far. He's got limited (if any) payroll room and is trying to set the team for future success. I definitely would not have traded Niese and Wheeler for the Royals pkg and I think his patience with Dickey is going to pay off very nicely. Going in to 2014 it looks like we're going to have some really strong, young players - all controllable - and a ton of payroll flexibility.

I don't know the exact number but something like $70M in 2014? Playing in NYC the payroll should be double that so assuming the Wilpons get their finances in order I am very optimistic about next year's offseason and the number of prospects that should be ready to go.

I also don't get this value thing about moving Olt. I can understand if we were replacing Vlad Guerrero in RF. We are not. Olts value to the Mets in RF or LF even if we get 20 HR and 80 RBI's is ridiculous. Of course he project more, but to see here and to say we should just accept something different because Olts value at 3b is higher than it would be in the OF is ridiculous.

The goal from the start was to bring back a young power hitting corner OF.

But if you think you're going to get d'Arnaud, Gose and Sanchez for him then I'm sure every team will just tell you to keep him. Same with Olt, Perez, <someone> from the Rangers and any other top 3 prospects you can list from other farm systems.

What a ridiculous straw man argument.

No one said it would take D'Arnaud, Gose, and Sanchez.

The statement you were responding to was this:

It's gonna cost d'Arnaud or a package of good prospects, including both Syndergaard and Gose.

That's a perfectly reasonable statement, especially considering the Rangers have already reportedly discussed Olt. So the Mets won't have to keep him. Olt alone straight up is easily more interesting than Gose + JPA.

Gose has nice tools sure, but the fact that the performance hasn't matched, combined with the fact he's been on the roster chewing up his options, means he's not going to have as much value as an MLB ready Leonys Martin. And he's also not going to have as much value as an equally toolsy guy with more time to develop, such as Luis Sardinas. And if the Rangers weren't willing to deal Olt, they'd likely have to do a package around Martin or Sardinas as well.

I think most of us here would be happy with D'Arnaud straight up. If the Jays aren't ready to do that though, we would probably just deal with the Rangers, who have a much better system right now than the Jays, and could at least interest us with probably any 2 names from their top 10. The Jays to match are likely going to have to include one of D'Arnaud, Snydergaard, or Sanchez.