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Re: Toddler wounds both parents with 1 shot from handgun

Originally Posted by flogger

Well I don't doubt that many must be frankly given the facts

A study of firearm storage patterns in U.S. homes found that “of the homes with children and firearms, 55% were reported to have 1 or more firearms in an unlocked place,” and 43% reported keeping guns without a trigger lock in an unlocked place A 2005 study on adult firearm storage practices in U.S. homes found that over 1.69 million children and youth under age 18 are living in homes with loaded and unlocked firearms In addition, 73% of children under age 10 living in homes with guns reported knowing the location of their parents’ firearms

You ever live In a truly rural area? Kids are working on the farm and as ranch hands and often do have access to a firearm. No big deal. My father was given a shotgun at age 9 and allowed to blow crows out of their garden with it... Not that uncommon at all if you ever set foot a hundred miles from nowhere

Originally Posted by Dr. Chuckles

No one cares about your stupid hippy logic

"Be careful of averages, the average person has one breast and one testicle"
-Dixy Lee Ray

Re: Toddler wounds both parents with 1 shot from handgun

Originally Posted by flogger

Its nothing like 'exactly the same' How many people deliberately murder using cars !

We covered this...if I have to repeat everything I already wrote, I'll just let you go back and read again. We did discuss your lack of math skills...I hope that doenst extend to reading comprehension as well.

Here, one more time: It doesnt matter. The people are just as dead or injured. The body count is much higher, for a highly regulated piece of machinery, for which the state already qualifies drivers as physically capable of using and requires training.

And it is much more dangerous *for all daily practical purposes* than any gun. It also demonstrates that all the regulation and training *does not make it safe.* And yet, we accept the body count. But people focus on 'scary' guns which are...**in real life** less of a danger to them on a daily basis.

Originally Posted by Bucky

Welfare is a bad thing? It is essentially free money. It is not that bad.

Originally Posted by Bucky

I look at abortion the same way I do Pineapple Pizza.

Originally Posted by applejuicefool

A murderer putting a bullet through someone's brain is a medical procedure too.

Re: Toddler wounds both parents with 1 shot from handgun

Originally Posted by flogger

Well I don't doubt that many must be frankly given the facts

A study of firearm storage patterns in U.S. homes found that “of the homes with children and firearms, 55% were reported to have 1 or more firearms in an unlocked place,” and 43% reported keeping guns without a trigger lock in an unlocked place A 2005 study on adult firearm storage practices in U.S. homes found that over 1.69 million children and youth under age 18 are living in homes with loaded and unlocked firearms In addition, 73% of children under age 10 living in homes with guns reported knowing the location of their parents’ firearms

For example, if I were part of that study, I would be part of the 55% with a firearm in an unlocked place...I would be part of the 43% without a trigger lock on my rifle...my kids would be one of those 1.69 million, at least some years ago...they are adults now, who lived in a home with unlocked, though unloaded, firearms...and my kids would be among those 73% who knew where the rifle was located. All they had to do was look at it hanging on the wall.

However, none of that, in the slightest, means that my kids were ever in any kind of danger. For one thing, they knew almost as much as I did about how to deal with that firearm. They had both fired the rifle. They both knew how to load it. They also knew when was the right time to load and fire it.

So...given the huge number of households WITH firearms and the very small number of accidents INVOLVING firearms, I'd say your statistics are pretty much worthless except for the shock value they create from the ignorant.

Re: Toddler wounds both parents with 1 shot from handgun

And the point you chose to miss is that all weapons are inanimate objects. Its the potential lethality of the weapon once in human hands that matters

We already called you out on the silliness of using nukes as an example. If you'd like to continue down that path I'd say you are a glutton for punishment.

Here's how useless your silly analogy was: all inanimate objects can be weapons. Nearly anything can be used to kill or harm or defend. Shall we include "everything" in our discussion of a toddler and a handgun?

Originally Posted by Bucky

Welfare is a bad thing? It is essentially free money. It is not that bad.

Originally Posted by Bucky

I look at abortion the same way I do Pineapple Pizza.

Originally Posted by applejuicefool

A murderer putting a bullet through someone's brain is a medical procedure too.

Re: Toddler wounds both parents with 1 shot from handgun

Originally Posted by Lursa

It doesnt matter. The people are just as dead or injured.

Of course it matters ! Get a dictionary and look up the difference between accidental and intentional. I dont doubt we have a comparable road safety record to the US what we don't have is people also being shot by the tens of thousands every year. One is an unfortunate consequence of modern living in a developed country the other is an unnecessary and lethally irresponsible endangerment

Re: Toddler wounds both parents with 1 shot from handgun

Originally Posted by flogger

Of course it matters ! Get a dictionary and look up the difference between accidental and intentional. I dont doubt we have a comparable road safety record to the US what we don't have is people also being shot by the tens of thousands every year. One is an unfortunate consequence of modern living in a developed country the other is an unnecessary and lethally irresponsible endangerment

Then please go ahead and tell me how it matters to all the dead and injured and their families?

How does it make a difference? Do they feel better because it was a car?

Come on, if you want to continue to make this claim, support it.

We CHOOSE to accept the body count from cars and some choose to view the same from guns as unacceptable *because it happened by gunfire*. It's irrational.

(one reason you seem to be unable to wrap your mind around this is because the 'intentional' deaths from guns are mostly criminal activity and gangs, while car related deaths are mostly accidental. How can you see that dead is dead and it doesnt matter? That we love our rolling death machines and just chalk up those deaths/injuries to 'part of modern life?')

Last edited by Lursa; 02-03-15 at 12:38 PM.

Originally Posted by Bucky

Welfare is a bad thing? It is essentially free money. It is not that bad.

Originally Posted by Bucky

I look at abortion the same way I do Pineapple Pizza.

Originally Posted by applejuicefool

A murderer putting a bullet through someone's brain is a medical procedure too.

Re: Toddler wounds both parents with 1 shot from handgun

Then please go ahead and tell me how it matters to all the dead and injured and their families?

Because they were deliberately shot and didn't die accidently maybe ?

How does it make a difference? Do they feel better because it was a car?

Well yes I think they'll feel quite a lot different between it being an accident and being intentional. I know I would

Come on, if you want to continue to make this claim, support it.

US 30,000 + gun deaths per annum UK (2013) 39

We CHOOSE to accept the body count from cars and some choose to view the same from guns as unacceptable *because it happened by gunfire*. It's irrational.

No accidents are accidents. Shootings are overwhelmingly intentional and therefore not accidents

(one reason you seem to be unable to wrap your mind around this is because the 'intentional' deaths from guns are mostly criminal activity and gangs, while car related deaths are mostly accidental. How can you see that dead is dead and it doesnt matter? That we love our rolling death machines and just chalk up those deaths/injuries to 'part of modern life?')

This is just repetitive evasion. How can having tens of thousands of intentional gun deaths per annum in addition to your mostly unavoidable road traffic deaths be acceptable ?

Re: Toddler wounds both parents with 1 shot from handgun

Well yes I think they'll feel quite a lot different between it being an accident and being intentional. I know I would

No accidents are accidents. Shootings are overwhelmingly intentional and therefore not accidents

This is just repetitive evasion. How can having tens of thousands of intentional deaths per annum in addition to your mostly unavoidable road traffic deaths be acceptable ?

Wow, well that's your opinion. I dont really believe you, I think you are desperately trying to make a point, but fine.

IMO, you just choose to deny that the *actual deaths and injuries* from cars are much higher but WANT to find that acceptable, and choose to do the opposite for guns. People are just as dead or injured. I dont see any other recognition of that as rational.

And I say acceptable because people willingly and unthinkingly take their risks with cars every day and expose their children to it as well. The assume the risk without thought.

Intentional gun deaths in the US are mostly criminals and gang members. By FAR. You continue to ignore this fact which *in reality* affects very few Americans.

The accidental deaths are very sad but the numbers are on par with drowning deaths. We're not filling up our pools with dirt, now are we? The 'accidental' death from guns are then far far less than those 'accidental' car deaths. You are basically comparing apples and oranges. Yet you deny it in attempts to try and make your point...which you are basing on falsely interpreting data and pretending you dont see the difference between criminal deaths and accidental ones.

Originally Posted by Bucky

Welfare is a bad thing? It is essentially free money. It is not that bad.

Originally Posted by Bucky

I look at abortion the same way I do Pineapple Pizza.

Originally Posted by applejuicefool

A murderer putting a bullet through someone's brain is a medical procedure too.

Re: Toddler wounds both parents with 1 shot from handgun

Originally Posted by Lursa

Wow, well that's your opinion. I dont really believe you, I think you are desperately trying to make a point, but fine.

IMO, you just choose to deny that the *actual deaths and injuries* from cars are much higher but WANT to find that acceptable, and choose to do the opposite for guns. People are just as dead or injured. I dont see any other recognition of that as rational.

And I say acceptable because people willingly and unthinkingly take their risks with cars every day and expose their children to it as well. The assume the risk without thought.

Intentional gun deaths in the US are mostly criminals and gang members. By FAR. You continue to ignore this fact which *in reality* affects very few Americans.

The accidental deaths are very sad but the numbers are on par with drowning deaths. We're not filling up our pools with dirt, now are we? The 'accidental' death from guns are then far far less than those 'accidental' car deaths. You are basically comparing apples and oranges. Yet you deny it in attempts to try and make your point...which you are basing on falsely interpreting data and pretending you dont see the difference between criminal deaths and accidental ones.

Most developed societies have vehicular accidents and thats regrettable but ultimately unavoidable. What they don't have is incurring the ADDITIONALrisk of death by intentional shooting for the simple reason they have sane gun laws which avoid this. Heads up we have criminal gangs too but they are considerably less lethal to both each other and to the wider public at large because they don't have easy access to firearms