[M]any women have trouble making eye contact when they approach a man who they know to be perfectly harmless and friendly. As they come within the range where a male acquaintance would simply look you in the eye and nod or say “Hi”, our female friends will stare down and sneer as if you’re a giant slimy turd they cannot bare to look at.

I confess I haven’t run across this so much, but let’s take him at his word: this happens ALL THE TIME! What’s even worse, those pretty princesses often do this even after you’ve spent the whole morning Going Your Own Way helping out cute girls in case this might lead one of them to give you a blowjob.

You may have just gone out of your way earlier that day to fix her hairdryer or carry something heavy up 10 flights of stairs but all of that is forgotten when she sees the opportunity to show what a sulky little bitch she really is.

But Deano is ready for them.

I like to point at the spot they’re staring at as I walk past – as if I have some special powers to direct their gaze. I don’t do it all the time, but it can be piss funny especially when other guys watching are in on the joke.

In your face!

Surprisingly, the story got a bit of a mixed reaction from the other fellows over there. Stonelifter, a true blue MGTOWer, responded with a terse:

I don’t have female friends

Dr. Poon, a medical doctor Going His Own Way who for some reason seems to have specialized in the ickiest parts of a woman, was a bit more supportive:

It is counter-intuitive, but you are doing everything right.

NEVER avoid a woman’s gaze, let HER break the eye lock first and look to the side or to the ground. The establishes DOMINANCE on your end and SUBMISSIVENESS on hers.

LivingFree has a simpler approach:

I usually avoid looking at them during passing. I dont want to give them any impression I value anything about them.

Exactly! That’s why, whenever I spot a girl, I run and hide in a bush. Totally puts them in their place.

Women don’t refer to every sexual contact they dislike as rape. The phrase you’re looking for is “sexual harrassment”. A cynical person might think you were deliberately conflating the two terms, but I am a stranger to cynicism, so I’ll just assume that you’ve never heard of “sexual harrassment” and have only the word “rape” to describe the vast array of unwelcome sexual advances that women are routinely subjected to.

I think anything that involves non-consentual sexual violence should be called rape.
The non-consent should be clear and proven.

Non-consentual sex without violence is a form of sexual assault, but not rape.

Of course one could argue about definations, but it just bugs me that if I am to believe some things I read from feminists, everything they somewhat dislike is rape or a consequence of rape culture or what have you. If you follow that thinking then, yeah everyone is a rapists and a rape victim, and the words just become meaningless.

That’s why I made a card about Feministe.. xD Mount Boobz will be IN Feministe xD I was thinking… that maybe it’s not a great name tho : should it be M’an Bo’obz.. or maybe in reverse… Zbo’ob Nam or something 😐 Anybody have preferences in what sounds like a more fantasy thing for the evil mountain cave where the Darknyss rests? :]

I remember an animated short when I was a kid (I THINK it was a disney thing? o_O like a rly old one that they re-showed on some disney show) that had aliens deciding that cars were the dominant lifeform on earth just b/c it seemed so much like it from American civilization and how roads made up so much of the landscape and every house had a garage and etc xD

I liked Mt. Boobz, because I can never resist a Tolkien homage. Of course, if you want to go all in on the Tolkien parallel, then the Darknyss ought to have its own Barad Dur analog. Maybe name it Barad Jill.

Hrm… I’m actually not doing a Tolkien homage, but any accidental ones are good :3 I’m half working from WoT and half working for whatever comes up in my head when I think “fantasy” xD But that might be an interesting idea too :3

I think that was the plan of our current Mayor, and he’s been successful xD (he’s also trying to scrap most of our public transit plans and have more room for cars in the city… so… that’s ALSO suspicious xD )

That was a v fitting pic XD I didn’t WANT to use Mordor, I was thinking more along the lines of the Great Blight, the land that Shayol Ghul was in in WoT, but Mordor fits well too (and it’s BASED on Mordor xD so this is a case where I’m not actually ripping off Tolkien, I’m ripping off somebody who ripped off Tolkien xD )

“I think anything that involves non-consentual sexual violence should be called rape.
The non-consent should be clear and proven.”

I think you should describe exactly how you would go about proving non-consent. Can the woman say “I didn’t consent,” or does she need to provide some evidence of it? What evidence could there be, unless someone was recording?

“Non-consentual sex without violence is a form of sexual assault, but not rape.”

What about, you know, unconsciousness? I think you’ve said in the past that if the woman is unable to resist due to drugs or whatever, the drugging is violence. Does that mean that drugging without rape is assault then? What about somone who is terrified mentally (threats to life, threats to friends or family, etc) into not resisting, but no physical violence is used. Is that rape?

There is actually some nuance here, as indicated by this blurb on the definition of rape. But of course you aren’t focusing on the nuance, you’re focusing on how all those big bad feminists are calling all men rapists. Well, some do. Most don’t. And I don’t think you can say that “feminists say X” when X isn’t even close to a majority opinion within the group. We “moderate” feminists have a word for the radicals who call themselves feminsts; radfems. But I’m gonna tell you what I’ve told other trolls before you. Try debating the ideas actually presented to you by posters here; saying “well person X says Y, so you all must believe Y too” is dishonest, dangerously close to (if not already) strawmanning, and suckering everyone into a debate where nobody involved actually disagrees.

@Bee, I think I have a distinct lack of proper ambition. Part of it seems to be that my expectations for standards of living start out pretty low, I always think I am living it up. “I buy the one dollar more expensive cheese that comes preshredded instead of buying the cheap block cheese and using my shredder! I am rich and spoiled!” I also am less paniced about failure, because I tend to see the worst case scenario as ending up where I started. “Working as a cashier in a turnpike travel plaza, and having a walk-in closet as your bedroom? Been there, done that, I’d live with it if I had to.”

I am good with law when it comes to reading and understanding cases and doctrine, but I am sort of a shit writer. We did oral arguments for one class, and the guest judges told me I was the best one they had seen all week. But my grade on the paper about the same material was not so great. I am used to writing things that will be read by people with Ph.D.s, but I am used to verbally explaining to a variety of people. I need to work on writing to non-experts, so in a silly way, yahoo answers and internet threads are better practice arenas than the law library for me. My strengths and weaknesses tend to be rather idiosyncratic, so things designed to make life easy for others and help them are generally useless at best and a hinderance at worst when it comes to me.

I’m backwards from you, then, darksidecat. I got best brief but my oral argument sucked a bag of dicks. I think I’m just not used to trying very hard. Which is hard to not do, once you’re in the habit of it.

Heh.. Alright then. The people who tend to say “all men are rapists” also tend to be radfems. But it doesn’t go the other way. I probably could have made my point without digging at you gals. Sorry about that. 🙂

Its hard to talk about sometimes, sorta like how not all religious radicals think that God is killing american soldiers and they deserve it. (Only a particular set of radicals) Curse you all for not fitting the easy boxes I try to put you in!

The OP strikes a big chord with me (now that being on topic is now off-topic XD). I recently realized that I’ve learned to, when passing a man on the street, lower my head slightly and look away. Because making eye contact is seen as an invitation to harrassment and a small ritual show of submission makes them leave you alone.

I hate that I do this and I’m trying to stop (I still don’t make eye contact but I try not to lower my head anymore). I don’t want to cow myself routinely.

In re: the whole rape thing luke123 brought up – non-violent non-consensual sex isn’t rape? Ok…no. Rape is non-consensual sex. That’s kind of the definition. That includes coerced sex (“Have sex with me and I won’t beat you” “Have sex with me or I’ll leave you by the side of the road” “Have sex with me or I’ll fire you” – all forms of rape), date rape, marital/relationship rape, and rape under the colour of authority (I.e., a pastor telling a parishoner “Have sex with me or you’re going to hell”).

IME most people are actually very good at figuring out when someone wants to have sex with them and prefer willing partners. Really, it’s not that hard!

The only people who want to figure out exactly how much coercion/force they can get away with before people call it rape are rapists.

On your link, first of all, it’s a radfem site (ergo does not represent mainstream feminist opinion), but since I like a challenge, let’s see how I stack up…

(WARNING: long post is likely to be very long)

He has ever sexually engaged with any woman while she was underage, drunk, high, physically restrained, unconscious, or subjected to psychological, physical, economic, or emotional coercion.

Never.

He defends the current legal definition of rape and/or opposes making consent a defense.

I don’t even think I did that before identifying as a feminist.

He has accused a rape victim of having “buyer’s remorse” or wanting to get money from the man.

Absolutely never.

He has blamed a woman for “putting herself in a situation” where she “could be” attacked.

Once. And I know now that I was incredibly wrong for saying it. Was I rape-supporter? Unconsciously, yes! See, I can admit when I’m wrong. Why can’t you?

He has procured a prostitute.

Umm, no.

He characterizes prostitution as a “legitimate” “job” “choice” or defends men who purchase prostitutes.

I stand by that sex work should be legal while pimping should be illegal, and that sex workers should be listened to. Some (though I’m sure not all) radfems may disagree, but again, this opinion does not represent mainstream feminism.

He has ever revealed he conceives of sex as fundamentally transactional.

No. I was taught that sex should never be used that way; it should be something that all partners enjoy.

He has gone to a strip club.

No…and my grandmother refused when she was offered the chance to go to one.

He is anti-abortion.

I was anti-abortion when I was eleven. Then I grew up.

He is pro-”choice” because he believes abortion access will make women more sexually available.

Not cool. And, no, that’s never been me.

He frames discussions of pornography in terms of “freedom of speech.”

I’ve always been on the fence about pornography depicting consenting adults. Anything else I am whole-heartedly against. But again, being completely anti-porn is something you find amongst radfems.

He watches pornography in which women are depicted.

I can’t watch pornography at all. I can’t even look at it. Triggering for me. But as to whether I agree that it would make me a rape-supporter, same as above.

He watches any pornography in which sexual acts are depicted as a struggle for power or domination, regardless of whether women are present.

You’d have to talk to someone from the BDSM community.

He characterizes the self-sexualizing behavior of some women, such as wearing make-up or high heels, as evidence of women’s desire to “get” a man.

I may have at one point, can’t remember, but if I did, I was wrong. While it may be the case sometimes, women certainly are not trying to “get” a man every time we dress up.

He tells or laughs at jokes involving women being attacked, sexually “hoodwinked,” or sexually harassed.

No. No I don’t.

He expresses enjoyment of movies/musicals/TV shows/plays in which women are sexually demeaned or presented as sexual objects

Given that this is done in nearly all movies, musicals, TV shows, and plays, it’s kind of hard not to, but that’s why try to change the culture.

He mocks women who complain about sexual attacks, sexual harassment, street cat-calls, media depictions of women, or other forms of sexual objectification.

Yeah, no.

He supports sexual “liberation” and claims women would have more sex with (more) men if society did not “inhibit” them.

No, I support sexual liberation because adult people should be able to have sex with whatever consenting adult they want.

He states or implies that women who do not want to have sex with men are “inhibited,” “prudes,” “stuck-up,” “man-haters,” or psychologically ill.

No.

He argues that certain male behaviors towards women are “cultural” and therefore not legitimate subjects of feminist attention.

No, I think the fact that certain male behaviours towards women are cultural are EXACTLY why they are legitimate subjects of feminist attention.

He ever subordinates the interests of women in a given population to the interests of the men in that population, or proceeds in discussions as if the interests of the women are the same as the interests of the men.

Can’t say as though I have.

He promotes religious or philosophical views in which a woman’s physical/psychological/emotional/sexual well-being is subordinated to a man’s.

When I was a kid. I was wrong. Now, not at all.

He describes female anatomy in terms of penetration, or uses terms referencing the supposed “emptiness” of female anatomy when describing women.

Eeww, no!

He defends the physical abuse of women on the grounds of “consent.”

Not sure if she’s talking about BDSM or not. If she is, then I again part ways with her. If not, then no I have never done that.

He defends the sexualization or sexual abuse of minor females on the grounds of “consent” or “willingness.”

No, absolutely not.

He promotes the idea that women as a class are happier or more fulfilled if they have children, or that they “should” have children.

No.

He argues that people (or just “men”) have sexual “needs.”

I think people do have sexual needs; I do not think (nor have ever thought) that just men have them. Again, you’re using a radfem list.

He discusses the “types” of women he finds sexually appealing and/or attempts to demean women by telling them he does not find them sexually appealing.

I part ways here. There’s nothing wrong with having preferences, only when you think your preferences are the be-all and end-all of everything.

He sexually objectifies lesbians or lesbian sexual activity.

No, and I don’t agree with the opposite either. Lesbians and gays are an underprivileged group and should not be classified as fetish objects.

He defends these actions by saying that some women also engage in them.

As I said, I don’t agree with it in either form.

Now since she was actually asking if women knew any men who didn’t fit this list, I can at least say that my ex fit little more than I did. But again, radfem. Not that all radfems are the same (they’re not), but you’re really going to have to find a mainstream source.

I did run across a blog once that was written by a woman who claimed to hate all men and that all men were rapists. She called herself a lesbian separatist, yet was married to a man. It was all very strange and the only time i have run across any human being who honestly seemed to believe the worst about what people say about radfems, and I’m not even sure that she identified as radfem.

Another point of fact: It is not the radfem party line to hate trans people. In fact I am not sure that I would even be a radical feminist if not for my friendships and experiences with gay, lesbian, and trans people.

Also, what KristenMH said about “types”. I have a type. Talking about it is just being honest. Also my “type” is pretty non-mainstream in terms of cultural attitudes about attractiveness. I think mostly I talk about my “type” to counter media narratives.

Also, I don’t see what thinking woman “should” have children has to do with rape. I personally disagree with that attitude, but it seems orthogonal to the whole rape thing.

Of course according to that website’s author I’d count as a rapist anyway*, so what do I know 😛 Even though I figured out I was wrong and will never do it again. Or maybe she wouldn’t care because the person I did it to was male. I don’t even frikking know. I kinda don’t even want to understand the mindset of a person who would take my porn away.

As someone who has worked in the adult film entertainment industry (no, NOT as a performer!) I kind of wish someone WOULD take all the porn away. Like, away to another planet. I would never support a law making it illegal but I certainly wouldn’t shed a tear if that entire industry of schlubby white dudes laid down their cameras for good and decided to plant trees or something instead.

Terrible analogy, I know, but maybe its something like the meat industry. Eating meat is all fine and dandy, but the process by which meat gets mass-produced can be horrifying. Porn in the abstract is perfectly fine, but the process by which the industry runs is disturbing.

Not trying to say porn stars are meat (though I guess some would argue that’s the way they’re treated), just making an analogy that its the process, not necessarily the product, that is terrible.

I do know what you are saying kirby, unfortunately, after 7 years in the industry, I am forced to conclude that the problems with porn are inherent to any sexual entertainment where people have actual sex within a capitalist and patriarchal society. The way the industry is set up makes it almost impossible for a performer to have true control over what they do on film and also be fairly compensated. “Talent” costs are sometimes the lowest cost expense for an average DVD or web published video so that should tell you a bit about how much the actual human bodies on display in porn are valued.

But this isn’t the “listen to Fuck MRAs talk about her love/hate relationship with her job” thread so I’ll shut up now.

Feel free to share if you want, I don’t think folks will mind too much. It does still seem that you are talking about the industry, not saying that pornography itself, in any context, is inherently a bad thing… So I’d be interested in hearing you expand upon your point.

Gah, regarding my long post, in the first paragraph, it should read, “A man raping his wife used to not be considered rape historically. Yup, we should totally only be using the very first definition of rape ever.” Again, I can admit when I’m wrong.

We Hunted the Mammoth tracks and mocks the white male rage underlying the rise of Trump and Trumpism. This blog is NOT a safe space; given the subject matter -- misogyny and hate -- there's really no way it could be.