I've actually never heard someone say they appreciate something ironically. I've heard people say they like the unpredictability of a terrible media construct, or that they enjoy something on the basis of nostalgia while acknowledging that other people may find it objectively bad. These positions are quite healthy to take as they can lead to a deeper discussion of what the person actually enjoys about a show and why, or why a person might find a particular construct unpredictable and what that says about the creators of the show in relation to the person.

More often the result is an agreement to disagree in the form of "That's bad and you should feel bad", but it leaves the conversational options open.

I find the best practice is to love irony, but not to love things ironically. Though, I suppose it's possible to love those who love things ironically. It might become a scenario that leads to actual, delicious, hilarious irony at their expense.

That really did a lot to damage the Irony requirement for liking things. If people can really like mlp, why not Adventure Time? Gravity Falls is awesome, Invader Zim deserved more seasons, I will wear that classic Voltron shirt, ext.

In the same way I think it hurt Irony heavy shows like Family Guy. Not really Robot Chicken since that seems to embrace nostalgia rather than mock it.

I don't think Invader Zim ever wore the 'ironic' badge, I think its shear freaking weirdness/randomness/gross factor made it enjoyable for older fans, in the same way as 'Ren & Stimpy'. However, those other shows are a real slap in the face of the ironic argument, they're just legit good (although I have never seen Voltron so I can't really argue on its behalf).

Not what I meant. I just mean it's no longer seen as strange to say you like a Nickelodeon cartoon. You can like Invader Zim because it funny and the animation is great. Where before it seemed more like, Invader Zim can be liked because it's a perversely dark kids show. You no longer have to be emo or goth to like it. You don't have to be a Girl to like MLP, you don't have to be a kid to like any cartoon you like.

That's another reason I think it hurts shows like Family Guy and other 'Adult' cartoons that were on the 'safe to like' list.

Older Voltron is pretty good in an old Anime style. The Newest Voltron isn't terrible. The New Thundercats is really good too. So is the new Ninja Turtles.

Everyone has gotten way past the irony excuse about the things they like. Teenagers, for example, state that they like "nerdy" things because they want to fit in with others or because they really do. Nobody says they enjoy things "ironically". They either say they like it or they don't. Most of this stuff is crap anyways, but like what you like. (That's a good phrase.)

YES!!! Thank you for this video, Bob, and I couldn't agree more! I just got back from Fanime in San Jose, CA this past weekend, and it is an irony-free zone. Everybody there likes what they like and show no shame about it. If you spent as much time and money on your costume as they did, of course that shows how big a fan you are! I always associated liking something "ironically" with meaning you really hate it, and there's no room for haters in Fanime. When you're there, you're there to watch videos, attend panels, shop for artbooks, figurines, DVDs, what-have-you, play games, and you damn well have fun. Bob, I think you'd love it there.

OT: I don't get the "ironic" thing anyway. While laid up with worse than normal back problems I've been watching a lot of Power Rangers. And despite knowing they're not good shows, fuck it. They're fun. I enjoy rubber suit monsters and teenagers with attitudes fighting them. They're even better when the shows embrace the cheese, in fact. I don't think this is ironic; I am sincerely enjoying these shows, and somewhat because they're bad, but more because there's something earnestly endearing about them to me.

Just like what you like, people. Enjoying something "ironically" has always sounded so ridiculously douchey and transparent.

This was kind of the episode I have been wanting for a while, but was not as direct as I want it to be. I really would like to see Bob's perspective about enjoying and participating in things associated with the "nerdy" or "geeky" stigma, and why there exists such a stigma in the first place. My little personal anecdote was just last night I was talking to my friend about how we should buy some Magic decks and have some fun that I wasn't allowed to have as a kid due to growing up in a home with religious parents who heard that they were satanic. He thought that was an awesome idea but he was embarrassed to be see buying them. I know that comics, Magic, anime, and anything related used to be mainly associated with strange antisocial people who do nothing but what they are obsessed with and that they tend to be physically unfit, unattractive, and lonely. While I am sure people like that exist that is hardly the truth as a whole; furthermore comic characters are now some of the most popular and well known characters thanks mainly to the movies. So I would like to see a well thought out theory why it seems the many people that loved the Avengers movie would be embarrassed to walk into their local comic shop to get an Avengers book.

I also think that irony like your talking about might be diminishing. I mean we have a big population of people who are willing to wholeheartedly embrace this. When pretty much anything that is geared towards girls or children is seen as something that you can only enjoy 'ironically'.

Not what I meant. I just mean it's no longer seen as strange to say you like a Nickelodeon cartoon. You can like Invader Zim because it funny and the animation is great. Where before it seemed more like, Invader Zim can be liked because it's a perversely dark kids show. You no longer have to be emo or goth to like it. You don't have to be a Girl to like MLP, you don't have to be a kid to like any cartoon you like.

That's another reason I think it hurts shows like Family Guy and other 'Adult' cartoons that were on the 'safe to like' list.

Older Voltron is pretty good in an old Anime style. The Newest Voltron isn't terrible. The New Thundercats is really good too. So is the new Ninja Turtles.

Fair play.

Personally, I don't enjoy the new Thunder Cats. I never watched the original so it's not a nostalgia thing, I think the shows so afraid of depicting violance it ends up dancing around every problem. Although i've only watched about 4 episodes so, again, im not the best person to ask.

I did enjoy those Chuck Norris jokes. I enjoyed it more once Chuck was told about them and read some of them out loud, laughing all the way through.My enthusiasm for the man kinda reversed itself after I found out about his political leanings and what the man says into microphones. He is politically incorrect, in a non-ironical, literal way.

He and his wife didn't outright say it, but it doesn't take a genius to figure out what he is talking about.Here this is the video.

Great, I'm a bad Christian for being a communist. Thanks for giving me the stupids internet.

Bah! It's just the talk of madmen.If I learned one thing in church(it was hard to do that ;p), it's Jesus loves everyone. Hell, even the new Pope just had a talk with the people around him saying Jesus saved everyone, not just the people who worshiped him.

MB202:I never understood the use of irony... Like how the Hell can you tell if something's being ironic instead of just playing it all straight? I never could tell. Nor can I tell when someone's being sarcastic with me...

Just use your.. right ventromedial prefrontal cortex?!

Seriously though, I fail to understand how so many people are unable to detect sarcasm and joking in general, even on the internet. It's pretty obvious, if you are aware of the context, and have some basic social/communication skills..

Imp Emissary:Bah! It's just the talk of madmen.If I learned one thing in church(it was hard to do that ;p), it's Jesus loves everyone. Hell, even the new Pope just had a talk with the people around him saying Jesus saved everyone, not just the people who worshiped him.

I do get annoyed at people making fun of the Shaw Brothers movies from the 70s I enjoy, although the live beatbox dubbing party I saw in the "Breath Control - History of the Human Beatbox"http://ghostrobot.com/work/films/breath-control-history-of-the-1.html documentary looked awesome. Kind of a moot point about dubbing as there was no sync-sound for any Hong Kong movie until Police Story 3 in 1992.

Bbleds:This was kind of the episode I have been wanting for a while, but was not as direct as I want it to be. I really would like to see Bob's perspective about enjoying and participating in things associated with the "nerdy" or "geeky" stigma, and why there exists such a stigma in the first place. My little personal anecdote was just last night I was talking to my friend about how we should buy some Magic decks and have some fun that I wasn't allowed to have as a kid due to growing up in a home with religious parents who heard that they were satanic. He thought that was an awesome idea but he was embarrassed to be see buying them. I know that comics, Magic, anime, and anything related used to be mainly associated with strange antisocial people who do nothing but what they are obsessed with and that they tend to be physically unfit, unattractive, and lonely. While I am sure people like that exist that is hardly the truth as a whole; furthermore comic characters are now some of the most popular and well known characters thanks mainly to the movies. So I would like to see a well thought out theory why it seems the many people that loved the Avengers movie would be embarrassed to walk into their local comic shop to get an Avengers book.

It's an upsetting state of affairs sometimes, but the stigma's not bound to go away while our existences become more and more socially-integrated and throttled into consumerist oblivion. The way things are these days, more than ever before, kids are pressured to grow up as multiple personalities wrapped into singular human beings. Rather than proudly asserting one's individual nerddom, a modern geek will often spend their college years struggling to become the 'jock' or 'popular girl' they failed to be back in grade/high school (to be sure, I don't mean this literally). As a result of all this social-climbing, the communities surrounding nerdy interests like games, comic-book movies, etc... become more polarized, between a small number of passionate die-hards who will never care much for society's norms and a widening group of half-assed and noncommittal geeks who are more interested in the superficial lifestyle or instant gratification represented by such-and-such an interest.

I think Bob was spot on in pointing out the nucleus of self-effacement (or self-hatred) that characterizes modern life. The private life that is fundamental to a spiritually-balanced nerd lifestyle is under attack from all sides these days and things like the go-to invocation of hipster irony are clear symptoms.

Interestingly, I associate my guilty pleasures with things that people believe I should like based on certain personality characteristics of mine. For some reason, I don't want people to know my guilty pleasures because then they might believe I only watch a show, watch a movie, or read a book because I would fit into their media stereotype of who they think I am. Usually this revolves around my sexuality instead of any geeky/nerdy traits I have, so saying I loved watching Buffy makes me a bit more than self-conscious about it. Still, accepting that what you like (within a very murky moral view, ie no crime) and saying it out loud are sometimes hard to do.

As for irony...I probably misuse it myself a lot yet it's not part of my everyday vernacular. And the Internet, imho, has given us much worse things than the misuse of irony or Chuck Norris. For some reason I'm thinking of YouTube comments at this particular moment but other pointless things like cat pictures don't hold a lot of value either.

Daaaah Whoosh:I feel like the whole 'like what you like' idea is pretty recent, so people aren't used to it yet. I mean, the whole gay rights movement is all about people being allowed to enjoy things that other people don't like or understand. Before, with things like civil rights, it was about giving all humans equality, but now we've moved past physical forms and into mental and emotional ones, dealing with the rights of thoughts and feelings rather than bodies. Unfortunately, giving people the freedom to think what they want to isn't as fun as it sounds, as can be seen in almost any flame war. I think the real problem isn't that people are afraid to be themselves, but that they fear the backlash from their peers. When people come out and tell the world that they like things that are stupid or bad or even mildly offensive, it's the job of the world to accept that. Within reason, of course, but where we have to draw the line is impossible to know.

What he/she said. This is better than the video. Though I am not sure how it ties into it. Or if Bob is endorsing this cartoon (which I do remember and probably had action figures for) wholeheartedly "unironically" or what.

Letting people be themselves is like opening Pandora's Box. It's a stage we have to move through, just like the work of collectively raising the mean maturity of people on the internet (and their future parents) so it isn't such a miserable place to spend time.

I watched and participated in the internet culture during the zenith of the Chuck Norris jokes, I didn't see actual irony play a part in much of them. They were just stupid "this guy is so badass he X..." jokes. It worked because Chuck Norris had a rather consistent imagery of being a badass during his initial fame. The jokes were also mostly perpetuated by the more recent generation. For example, I was in my mid 20s when the meme started and most people doing and perpetuating the jokes were in their teens. So I'd contend that that it wasn't so much a Gen X inspired "Irony" meme as it was generic meme that used an artifact of what Gen X grew up with.

I do wonder if this was less a video about Gen X's use of irony than a video about Chuck Norris' apparent resurgence in the popular culture. :P

He and his wife didn't outright say it, but it doesn't take a genius to figure out what he is talking about.Here this is the video. -snip- (never mind that he and his wife were quoting Reagan, who was not talking about what you think.)]

Great, I'm a bad Christian for being a communist. Thanks for giving me the stupids internet.

Well, technically you're a bad communist for being a Christian. Since expelling/suppressing religion was the first thing most communist regimes have done, since there is no higher power than the state in their... well I guess, in your view.

I will agree with you on the Chuck Norris movies, and animated series, and many others.

BUT, "Walker: Texas Ranger" was awesome. Not ironically, but in real appreciation of that show. I can only think of a couple episodes that got weird, but everything has one or two bad episodes. "Walker" was awesome.

Not what I meant. I just mean it's no longer seen as strange to say you like a Nickelodeon cartoon. You can like Invader Zim because it funny and the animation is great. Where before it seemed more like, Invader Zim can be liked because it's a perversely dark kids show. You no longer have to be emo or goth to like it. You don't have to be a Girl to like MLP, you don't have to be a kid to like any cartoon you like.

That's another reason I think it hurts shows like Family Guy and other 'Adult' cartoons that were on the 'safe to like' list.

You're making it sound like its a bad thing, buy why would it be? Or am I just misinterpreting your message here? If so, then I'm sorry and must agree that in this case things really have changed for the better. I love me some Zim, Adventure Time or MLP.

He forgot to mention how life completely SUCKS and we have to take relief where we can find it.

Also, as an aside, it's not like Masters of the Universe messes you up like recreational drugs, so I don't see how people would be ashamed of enjoying it. I don't see people letting their kids die because they had to watch He-Man.