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Wednesday, March 21, 2007

Trent Green is not the answer

I know that the Kansas City Chiefs have called the Dolphins to offer Trent Green in trade. I know the Dolphins listened and would be interested under the right circumstances, with those circumstances being not giving up a draft pick and a contract that doesn't break the bank, something slightly better than a minimum salary deal.

But that's where I kind of depart from the logic of wanting Trent Green.

I know the Dolphins today do not have a quarterback they are completely confident in as their starter. DaunteCulpepper is the probability, but by all reports, he still is not completely healthy. Cleo Lemon is a possibility but he hasn't exactly proven he's starting caliber material in his three seasons.

So, I guess, that is the reason for liking Green. Sort of.

(Wednesday afternoon update: The Houston Texans have traded for Atlanta quarterback Matt Schaub, meaning incumbant starter David Carr could soon be on the trade block. Here's an idea that was previously visited on this blog: DOLPHINS, GO GET DAVID CARR!!!!)

But here are the reasons for NOT liking Green:

He is coming off his worst season with the Chiefs, an injury-plagued season that is probably still a fog to Green because he missed eight starts with a concussion. Even after the cobwebs cleared he managed only 7 TD passes versus nine interceptions and had a 74.1 rating that was his worst in five years.

The performance was so bad the Chiefs basically have told Green, you can return to KC as a backup, but our commitment is to Damon Huard, a career journeyman, and Brodie Croyle, a guy who has thrown seven NFL passes.

Green still wants to start so he's looking for work elsewhere. It should say something that no one, including the Dolphins, have stepped up and traded for Green. So the guy isn't even worth a seventh-round draft pick?

Even if Green comes as a free agent should the Chiefs release him, how can the Dolphins offer him a chance to start? That offer could send chilling messages to both Culpepper and Lemon and could cause a problem in the locker room.

Do the Dolphins throw all three into a competitive mix? That is a grenade waiting to explode. It didn't work in the Jay Fiedler and A.J. Feeley and Brian Griese days and the odds would be against it working here.

And even if Cam Cameron can soothe everyone's ego, I still come back to the fact Green will be 37 years old in July. So how much gas does the guy have left in the tank?

I know the Dolphins need bodies at the position. But perspective should be kept in that filling the vacancy with an aging guy is a band aid on a footlong gash. The Dolphins aren't going to make a Super Bowl run in 2007 so they should use that year to find a young quarterback in the draft and start polishing him.

The draft screams at the Dolphins to pick a young quarterback, maybe in the second or third round if a worthy first-rounder isn't available, and get the kid ready to make some sort of impact in the years to come.

This coming season, meanwhile, is key for the other quarterbacks on Miami's roster. The Dolphins absolutely must find out if Culpepper is going to be his old self again. If the answer is yes, then everything's great. If not, the Dolphins absolutely must find out if Lemon is the real deal.

The Dolphins need answers to these questions THIS YEAR. And getting those answers does not leave much room for a Trent Green.

That's another reason bringing Green to Miami seems to be a lark that by all logical reason should not fly.

(Wednesday afternoon update: The Texans have acquired Matt Shaub from the Falcons for draft picks. What does this mean for the Dolphins? Well, Houston starter David Carr will be traded in the coming weeks. If I'm the Dolphins I'm all over this situation. David Carr for a first-day pick that isn't a first-rounder? In a heartbeat!!!)

50 Comments:

patrick said...

Agreed Armando, Green is not the answer and I doubt we would even get much playing time out of him if we were able to pick him up on the cheap.

Here's some interesting stats... Since his concussion he has thrown an average of about two interceptions per game and his longest complete pass was a 35 yard touchdown pass. He got whacked pretty good in the Cincy game and he will probably never be the same though he had 4 consecutive 4,000 yards seasons before that and only Marino and a couple other guys have done that.

Cameron may like him because he knows the offense. What would people think of grabbing Green FA at the min but not giving up on picking a QB in the draft. It's still such a crap shoot because you just never know whether the guy you draft is going to work out.

Just a thought, but what about picking up David Carr and trading Cleo Lemon? I know most people would think you would trade or cut C-pep in that case, but we all watched Cleo Lemon play last year, He's a mediocore Jeff Blake. Is that really the answere? Bring Carr in and have a real QB battle, because if Lemon is the qb next year, lord knows we aren't going far at all. I think Miami's interest in Green says more about they're lack of faith in Lemon then it does Culpepper.

Why not trade Culpepper and the 9th pick, and 2nd round pick to Det/Oak for their 1st and 2nd round pick? This way you can draft Calvin Johnson and Drew Stanton, use the extra pick on an OL, and trade for Green.

Trent can play for a year as everyone gets accustomed to the offense. CJ can just run deep and try to get open and the spread on the field will allviate the rush on the line. Worst case scenario being that Cleo plays for a year or Stanton goes trhough some growing pains.

Am I crazy? Don't the Lions want a QB who can play now? Doesn't Al Davis dream of Cpep to Moss arial acrobatics?

I'd love to hear thoughts on how this doesn't work for all parties involved.

I don't want to waiste another season trying to figure out if Daunte Peglegpepper can come back. Sign Trent Green, draft Drew Stanton in the second round. Also we can't bank on Cleo Lemon being the answer. If he was any good he'd still be in San Diego. Never trust a player called "Lemon"

I couldn't agree more. It looks like David Carr will be available once Houston completes the deal for Atlanta backup QB Schaub. Wouldn't it make more sense for the Fins to try and pickup Carr instead of Green?

Daunte is the answer if he is healthy. The odds are favorable that he can come back from his injury, otherwise Miami would not have traded for him to begin with. Lets give him some love.

Still, as insurance, we do need a backup quarterback and Lemon is not the best we can do. Trent Green, on a minimum salary as a free agent could be a sort of Earl Morrall-type insurance if Daunte can't go.

As for the draft, Lamarcus is the only QB worth getting excited about as far as I can see. Quinn is a bust, mark my words. Stanton is hardly worth writing much less drafting.

David Carr would be good, but the best plan would be to trade for Randy Moss and sign Green for a minimum deal to backup Daunte. If there is money for Carr and Moss, super, but I doubt that is possible.

Dolfans, check out this excellent commentary on the virtues of Moss as a Dolphin:http://www.realfootball365.com/nfl/articles/2007/03/dolphins-culpepper-moss200307.html

And, ohh yeah, we need an offensive line!

And, yes, sign Ricky Williams. This man is still one of the top 5 running backs in the game if you give him love. Like Nick Saban says, Ricky will win at least 4 games on his own next year.

I knew that as soon as news of the Falcons aquiring Matt Schaub broke out, that Armando would start rallying for David Carr. Personally, I can't blame you. I mean, I like David Carr as well. He has an NFL arm, in his past three seasons he's completed over 60% of his passes with the 2006 season being his best at 68.3%. What really stands out about Carr is that the only time he missed regular season action was in 2003 when he was limited to only to 12 games. That's some serious toughness for a guy that's been sacked over 200 times in his short career.

However, as much upside as Carr has, it's questionable if he'll be able to bounce back from the beating he's been exposed too. Certainly he's a lot healthier than Culpepper or Green. Maybe a fresh start is what Carr needs, but I don't see him winding up here. I think Coach Cameron and Randy Mueller want to draft their own QB, and put their own stamp on the franchise.

Am I truly reading some of this nonsense? Go get Randy Moss? Trent Green? David Carr? I think we definitely need some help on offense. Draft a playmaker with the #9. Take Stanton or Kolb in the 2nd round and an offensive lineman. It will be a tough year, but does anyone remember Troy Aikman's or Peyton Manning's 1st year in the NFL? 1-15. Then what happened? Exactly!! Patience- we're not going to be a contender in Cam's 1st year!

I think we should trade/cut Donte as soon as we can do it strategically. When we cut him we gain 1.2 million. If we trade him, we get a pick as well. I think it's telling that NO ONE will even say his name or comment on him without prodding from the media. I wish we could have Culpepper from his record season + Moss in his prime, but I feel those days are long gone.

NO GREEN!What is this guy like 37 - 38? Is he gonna be using a walker on the field and wearing depends? Green is a has been not worth anything period. No draft picks not even a 7th round is worth it for Green. Tske Carr if he is cut he is not worth a draft choice either. What has he done? Cpep is way bettter than both these QB's. DO NOT WASTE DRAFT PICKS ON HAS BEEN QB's !!!!

I'm not saying get Carr. I'm saying if the front office feels so strongly about going after another QB (a strong indication that they're not confident in Culpepper) then I'd rather them get Carr OVER Trent Green. Of course, I would hope they wait for his asking price to go down or hope Houston cuts him. Outside of that, I agree that we need to draft our next QB this year and stay away from Green.

Neither QB will stand a chance behind this offensive line. The reason green is being pursued is for insurance. Cameron has a history w/ Green and getting Carr although younger would require an earlier draft pick. Cameron will get the best player on the board at #9 and continue to get younger on defense. Carr would look like Culpepper did last year and again make us look like a dumpster for castaway QB's. I say draft Stanton or Edwards in the 3rd or 4th.

No to Green. Too old, too banged up, doesn't even remember last season because of that vicious hit.

Carr would be an interesting possibility, if the price is right. Do not overpay and do not give away any of our best draft choices. However, with a highly suspect OL, Carr would still be in a situation where he will get pounded and be scrambling for his life. Not a pretty picture.

Definitely draft a QB in the second round. Stanton seems to be a solid choice.

Armando,I think we stay with cleo lemon,and draft a qb in the draft.If culpepper comes back that's great,but don't bank on it.

WE aren't going to supper bowl so why give up draft picks for some one elses used up goods.to me cleo lemon,with the help of ricky williams&ronny brown can give us a solid rebuilding year,as long as our oline is upgraded.

cleo can't be any worse than a qb that's on the verge of his brain being a milk shake and a qb with bubber bands for ligaments,or qb;s they found washed up on a beach somewhere.

spend this year leafing through the remains of unsuccessful reigems and not doing what the past reigems did,and that's picking through other teams spent remains and let's draft a team that is truely miami's team not a team made up of other team's dirty laundry.I admit you need some free agents,but I beleive you use free agents to up grade possitions not upgrade entire teams,as sabin tried to do last year .

draft,draft,draft and possibly surviving a few bad years,but enjoy geat years down the road.

Above are career stats for Carr and Joey H (Carr's at the top). His body of work over his career really doesn't represent a significant upgrade over JH. As such there's no way he's worth a first day pick. If a guy doesn't project as a starter don't trade anything more than a 6 or 7 for him. Saban was an idiot for giving a 5th for Joey when he could have had him for nothing. They don't need to make that mistake again.

As far as Green goes.... I agree with you.

And to : "my opinion over yours" who posted about the trades. Yes you are crazy....

Armando, if you do not think Green is the answer what would lead you to believe Carr is any better?

My take is that if they get Green and a cap friendly contract as insurance (because Culpepper will enter camp as the starter), that's fine. The LONG TERM answer, if it isn't Culpepper, is currently in college.

2 words - Joey Harrington!Do we really need a cast-off from the Texans? Hopefully CC's ego won't lead him to believe that he can build this guy into a legit NFL QB...draft a prospect and start from scratch!

I pretty much agree with everything you said here Armando. The one thing I dont agree with is thinking that there would be any kind of ego clash in a competition for starting QB if Green is brought in. Who are we talking about here? What egos should any of these guys have? C-Pep hasn't played well and hardly at all in two years. Lemon is unproven and Green had a horrible second half last year. If any of these guys have any pre-conceived notions about being the automatic starter I would LMAO.

Also I agree with what a lot of people are saying about Carr. I do not believe he is worth a first day pick. We have traded away too many picks in the past on gambles that didn't work out. Lets keep our picks and be patient with our team. Time to get younger and build for the future.

The people commenting here are mostly freaks. Jeezus, you got one of the best quarterbacks from the last ten years on your roster and you treat him like crap. The problem is the screwed up GM tandem has not gotten an offensive line. With an offensive line, even Joey can be a decent to good quarterback. Anyhow, with f-cked up Dolfans like this you don't deserve Daunte.

I agree with that it would be much better to get Carr as our QB insurance policy than Green for the reasons you mentioned.

What I don't agree with is giving up a first day draft pick. like the Dolphins and Mare, the Texans don't have a lot of leverage in trading Carr. If nobody bites you know they are going to cut him.

Like Green, Carr may be damaged goods. He has taken a lot of hits in his tenure at Houston. That kind of punishment ruins some QBs (remember when Kurt Warner developed happy feet?). I would give up at most a 6th rounder for Carr.

If the Dolphin's can't pickup Carr or Green on the cheap then they should draft a QB and roll the dice with Culpepper and Lemon. There is sure to be a mediocre journeyman QB available later this year

You know something, the Texans are clearly unhappy with Carr which is evident when they signed Schaub. The Dolphins should either offer them something along the lines of a third rounder and an old Saban "I am a lying SOB" coaching shirt. I like Carr - he's mobile, young, great arm, good future - I just think he has had a rough going in Houston. As far as C-pep, we still have to give the guy a chance, the guy was playing on a peg leg - he should have tried out for Dancing with the Stars last season rather than try playing. But seriously, we should not trade away picks the way the guys in the Wandstank era traded picks. Picks are obviously the hottest commodity now-a-days which is why few traded players demand their original pick – you build championships with young guys and key veterans to lead.

I'd love for the Fins to get Carr. He's still young enough, you know he's tough as hell, but still has missed hardly any playing time! A 60% completion percentage DOES mean something, even if he's been dinking and dunking down the field. Do you think that by the time the regular season rolls around, Carr wouldn't have better overall talent and coaching around him than he had at Houston? I do. Who did Carr have besides Andre Johnson? No RB, no TE, and obviously, some bad OL if he's taken 250 sacks! No way those are all his fault.

Daunte's injury, I'm not worried about. It will be fine by training camp.You keep Daunte around to see if his head is right. I still think that was his biggest problem from last year, and, of course, the CLUELESS play-calling and offensive "gameplan". Keep in mind that this coaching staff will have a MUCH better clue of how to coach and gameplan, especially on offense. If Daunte's decision-making is the real problem, he will be exposed, and Cam and Randy can cut those ties once and for all. You bring Carr in here to compete for the starting spot. You draft some good OL and a QB for the future. Keep Lemon around for camp and preseason, at least. Let the 4 QB's fight it out, but you know that Daunte or Carr is your opening day starter, barring a miracle by Lemon or the rookie QB.

What a f*&^%^& waste it would be and again pretty pathetic for the dolphins to give anything for a quarterback who is "Washed up". I dont know how to express the disgusting feeling I have just thinking about it. It would be a step backwards more so than they have already taken this off-season. what was the statement about not paying for mediocricy?

Then Cleo Lemon second, cam cameron did have him in the system in san diego... Cleo has the knowledge to work in the system...

Then think Trent Green for one or two years ...If Culpepper is not ready or healthy to start the season opener, start Green he would be a proven starter And u could probably get Four decent games from him...Hoping to start 3-1 If Culpepper is still not ready stay with Green...If Green doesnt pan out, hopefully Culpepper is ready...

If not, Lets see what Cleo Lemon has to offer until Culpepper is ready...Like mentioned Cleo knows the system...

Now an important option, If Quin drops to #9 grab him...And to spite the patriots we'll have a Charlie Weis Product in Brady Quinn... Not Tom Brady, we'll let our defense handle him..,Im sure Cam Cameron and Trent Green will do a fine job of Grooming him...If he doesnt pan out also, trade him to the patriots for some draft picks..lol..

Now if Quinn is not available at #9... Think OT first round or D-line or secondary, maybe franchise TE Greg Olsen...Vernon Davis went top10 last year, why not Olsen..? Florida backround and great hands and quickness...Reminds me of Tony Gonzales or Gates...Im sure Trent Green and Cam Cameron knows how effective a good TE can be in the offense, passing and running game...

Well Armando, hindsight surely makes your 1st day pick for Carr seem foolish. But hey, there will be critics no matter what you say.

If you look closely at Carr's stats you can see a steady rise in his completion percentage and his TD/INT ratio over his 5 year career. It rarely works out when a QB is throw under center as a rookie and is expected to be a savior. Getting sacked an average of 50 times a season will soon lead to "The Dude's" lettuce brain.

My opinion on Carr is nothing... Nothing jumps out to say this guy could come in and make a larger difference than Culpepper or Green. I'm not saying he sux. I'm saying he hasn't done anything that gives me the sense he could be great.

All being said, with his release we could now pick up a veteran QB without compensation. Green has produced some pretty good seasons but he really hasn't won anything on some darn good KC teams. Why trade a draft pick now when we can just sign Carr?

Carr at least has some potential to take his game to the next level. I think both Green and Culpepper have seen their better days. So... Keep Culpepper, sign Carr and draft a young gun. Don't give up a draft pick for Green. "The Dude" is right, one hit and the guy is sandwich filler.

Was Carr sacked so much because of his o-line or because he holds on to the ball too long? If it's the latter, we dont need two QB'S with poor vision do we? Armando,if you read this could you give us some insight?

Hey anonymous what do you know? Leave our man Armando alone. Leave it to LeBetard? That guy is the biggest d*#k in south florida news. He only writes about the Dolphins when something horrible is going on and he seems to take great pleasure in all their failures! Other than that he is too busy with his true love,,basketball and the Miami heat to be bothered by the Dolphins. Leave it to Pope?! That guy doesnt know squat, ALL FLUFF. Armando gets a little over zealous sometimes but to me it shows he cares so lay off douche!

the phins have to sign carr right F77KING NOW! HE'S BEEN RELEASED! what are they waiting for?daunte is a washed up pile of crap!carr could be awesome under cameron!sign the friggin guy now,before the pats do!

I can't hardly stand reading these blogs anymore. Between people having no clue what players and/or draft choices are worth (read: swap our 1st and 2nd rounders with the raiders in exchange for daunte culpepper) to people who for years have screamed about the fins need to draft a franchise QB, and then scream Brady Quinn is Rick Mirer.

I don't love the options of Green or Carr, but I understand both. To you people who insist we are "disrespecting" daunte, I wonder. How many times have you seen him in the last week? Month? Year? Exactly. You know nothing about the '08 version of daunte becsuse there was only a bad '07 version, and a worse '06 version, and only the coaching staff knows where he is at now.

The same staff has explored trading up for Quinn, trading for Green and trading for Carr (though if I'm not mistaken he is now a FA so we should sign him ASAP. If the only people who know how Daunte is doing are trying really really hard to get another QB, what should that tell all of us "know-it-all" fans? Tells me he's washed up. Brady Quinn is this year's Matt Leinart. Would you all take Lienart if he was available at number 9 this year? Bet you would. Charlie Weiss worked with another QB named Brady...Tom Brady that is. Weiss says Quinn is one of the most NFL ready QBs ever to come out. He also says he's a franchise QB. He knows, better than a bunch of loudmouth fans. So I'll trust him.

So to all you armchair GMs out there, STOP RUINING MY OFFSEASON!

The offseason is a time of hope for me. When my team is undefeated and one succesful chemistry experiment from the playoffs. It's bad enough to be a dolphin fan that suffers through losing seasons, but it's worse when so many other dolphin fans insist on being hyper critical all offseason! Cameron hasn't even called a down for us yet. Can we please let him make some decisions without proclaiming the season doomed?

I am a Houston Texan season ticket holder since 2002. I want to tell the dolphin fans one thing. SIGN DAVID CARR!!! This guy is the real deal. Give him an offensive line and he will give the dolphins 2-3 more wins by himself. I believe the texans have made a irrevocable mistake. This horrendous decision will surely come back to sting houston. And hard. Good luck to the dolphins an if you sign Carr, please take it easy on us!

Please don't get your hopes up about Culpepper. As a Vikings fan I watched him through good and bad. He is fumble prone and does not make good decisions under pressure. In just the right system he is does very well. That means great O-line, great running game, coaches who let him play within his limitations. He cannot carry a team. Draft a quarterback and develop him.

in case you all haven't noticed the fins coaching staff is trying to find a replacement for culpepper. once they get a qb sighned.......probably carr they will either trade or cut cpep. if you read between the lines he's not in their plans. cam likes qb's that are pocket passers and can read a defence. thats what he always had and he won't change now. un fortunatly cpep is absolutly none of those things. when cam was asked about his relationship with cpep he said it's good BUT he hasn't had much contact with him. does this sound like cpep is in his plans? not to me . personally i would like to see carr now that he's been cut. let's see if i'm right.

Is KC out of thier minds? A 2nd round and a later pick for a 38 year old QB 1 hit away from being a cabbage patch kid? Miami needs to forget about this grandpapa QB and get Carr. At least Carr is young and can learn Cam's system. The Phins will make a HUGE mistake if they give up draft choices for a 37-38 year old QB HUGE MISTAKE!. Let the Lions have him please.

About this blog

Armando Salguero has covered South Florida sports for 25 years, starting as a 19-year-old in 1982. He's covered the Dolphins since 1990 and hosts a Dolphins hour show every weeknight 7-8 on 790 TheTicket (790theticket.com). He has worked nationally for ESPN and also writes sports columns for The Miami Herald.