i dont live in america but its similar here if i earn more than $80 a week the extra is subtracted from my benifit meaning its basicaly not worth doing any work at all. if i am offered 3 days a week of tempoary work i would make $80 if im offered 1 day i make $80, i have to do 4 days a week to make anything more than my beifit. and so i stay at home and play games instead of working.

If you make X amount per week/month, usually a ridiculously small amount that could not be considered even remotely livable, then you are no longer eligible for government assistance. This leads a lot of ghetto and slum individuals to avoid getting jobs and have more kids so they can get more government assistance.

That would be true if a full-time job at minimum wage wasn't still substantially larger than net yearly government assistance. That's universally true for the smaller families; for the larger families, full-timers at minimum wage might still be eligible for SNAP benefits and be better off for receiving those benefits and working. I mean "better" to say that the net dollars received is greater by having a job.

While I understand that full-time jobs are at a premium even in service sector, many part-timers are either working ~29 hours a week, which isn't far from full-time (and they may still be eligible for benefits) or working >30 hours a week but are classified as part-time so that their employing firms don't have to offer them certain benefits or guarantee a certain number of hours per week.

Anyway, my point is that even at the minimum wage, you make more money working than you do with benefits. Since most jobs are, in point of fact, above minimum wage, it follows that for the vast majority of Americans, you make more money working than living off the government.

neither you nor mattdoggy provided any sort of statistic for your claims. While I am more inclined to believe mattdoggy than you, based off of simple experience, and knowing people who do as mattdoggy said and not as you say, I still cannot agree fully with either of you if neither of you produce any proof of your claims. Neither can most people, which makes your comment and his pointless in its attempt to persuade people.

The fact that the vast majority of people prefer to work than to live off of government benefits speaks for itself.

Bankers, professional athletes, financial advisers, architects, investors, construction workers, professional managers, etc., all make vastly more in their careers than anybody does through government benefits. That's a given and everyone knows it.

Do you honestly need statistics to verify that?

The best-case scenario for the opposition argument is that minimum wage and low-paid service sector employees make less than government benefits provide, and that's false. If you'd like to verify that statement, go to your local welfare station and look around the walls on the posters. You can find excellent statistics there.

That's kinda the problem with going on and getting somebody a link. They're just gonna ignore it.

The problem is low skilled jobs. A good job pays way more than welfare and such. But a minimum wage job pays not even half of what a living wage is considered for 40 hours a week of work. Since the ghettos are poor (which is why they are ghettos) the only job that these people can get is often a minimum wage job.

Compounding this is the fact that many minimum wage jobs refuse to hire full time workers to avoid giving out benefits, but if you make a certain amount of money, you can't get government benefits. Situations where people are working 2 jobs at 60 hours a week but can't afford health insurance or even survive (8 bucks an hour is min. here, so that's 640 a week (2560/month) before taxes. Average rent in Dorchester is 1200 a month,average health insurance is 330 a month, which leaves barely a thousand dollars to live off of, and that's if you don't end up paying any taxes. Average food cost is 130 a week (per person, keep in mind), which leaves only 500 dollars for clothes, utilities (paying 1200 a month in dorchester means you're not getting utilities included), gas, phone, internet, TV, and every other expense. 500 bucks is not a lot of wiggle room, especially with heating in the winter if your ****** apartment doesn't include it. (Heating alone can be about 500 a month in Boston winters)

Why would you work 60 hours a week and barely make enough money to live on, if that, when you can get the same quality of life from welfare without doing any work?

And for all the sources, I just googled average ___ per month, MA or Boston

$8.00 an hour is $320 a week, not $640. ($2,560 a month on $8 an hour? How did that sound correct when you wrote it?)

You're asserting that you make more on welfare than you do working 60 hours a week without substantiating that claim.

Like I just said, it doesn't matter how many links you provide or how much verifiable information you offer, some people are just going to ignore it.

Even at 60 hours a week, you make more money than on welfare, even if you include TANF programs like SNAP and CA as a total instead of referring to them individually, and those with bigger families are often able to receive SNAP benefits in addition to their weekly income. Like I've already stated, you can verify this information with a basic Google search or even head down to your State's equivalent of the division of Health and Human Services and refer to their posters (which provide these statistics and independent sources).

The reason total employment is low because the supply of workers in the service sector is greater than the demand for them. That's also why the wages in those sectors are so low. Since the service sector is 80% of the American economy, a suffering service sector means that most Americans are going to see reduced private sector benefits, reduced wages, and reduced growth and employment possibilities.

At $8 an hour, assuming 30 hours a week, you're making $12,000 before taxes a year. That's still more than cash assistance and food stamps is going to give you a year. I don't know where all these inflated expectations of living off the government are coming from, but I suspect they're coming from people who have never actually had to step into an HHS building and get some actual information. Additionally, these expectations run in stark contrast to the fact that most people do, in point of fact, work, as opposed to live off the government.

Sorry, multiplied it by 8 instead of 6 >.> I was trying to use the working 2 jobs example, which is why I included health insurance in the bills.

And you're making a huge mistake in that you're only taking food stamps into account. There's also housing assistance, health insurance and bills to take into account.

The problem is that that's 12,000 a year before any bills or taxes. You're forgetting you don't pay taxes on government benefits and you get breaks on your bills. You're thinking only about money the government directly gives you, not the money that they help you save by indirectly paying for housing and insurance. (And remember, in Massachusetts, you get a huge fine if you don't have health insurance!)

And this isn't even taking unemployment into account. For example, the Massachusetts state website has a calculator where you can work out how much unemployment you're entitled to if you get laid off. Even at 10 dollars an hour, I actually would have made more money on unemployment than at my job.

And the last thing is that the point isn't you're making loads more money than working. The problem is, I can work 40 or more hours a week and have a ****** life, or I can work no hours and have a life that's barely any ******** .

Let's put it this way. Would you want to work 40 hours a week for a nice house and a pretty good car, or would you want to work 80 hours a week for an extra bathroom and an above ground pool? It's way too much extra work for way too little benefit.

First the math mistake and now the mistake about "only taking food stamps into account." I clearly stated that I was including cash assistance in that total. I don't mean to be condescending, but if you're going to have a conversation about these kinds of things, you need to keep up. Neither of us has time to be repeating ourselves.

You do pay taxes on many government benefits, including income taxes on things like unemployment insurance and sales taxes on food stamps and cash assistance, which in some places are close to or above 10%. That's not including little hidden taxes like phone taxes (which things like cash assistance are often used for).

You're also incorrect about unemployment. Unemployment is determined as a percentage of the total of your given earnings over a period of time; in other words, it will never be more than you would be making by getting a job comparable to the job which yielded the unemployment benefits you were receiving. You MIGHT be right if the job-seeker had to accept a lower-paying position, but that's the case, then the person is probably technically skilled in some way and the "technically skilled" demographic has overall far lower unemployment rates and far higher wages than the norm.

I disagree with your concluding analogy (since it's far too incongruous, imo), but I can loosely agree that sometimes the choice is between " ****** " and "barely less ****** ," and in those cases, the person may or may not choose " ****** " to have more free time, but that's not often the case (if you've done your research, you're already aware that most poor people do, in point of fact, work, even in the ghettos you were mentioning).

In summation, even if you include cash assistance and food stamps, you still pay taxes and you still make more money working, especially if you include your income tax refund.

And you keep blatantly ignoring my argument and pretend I'm saying that people game the welfare system and live like kings when I'm saying people choose to live their life at a 1/10 for no work or a 2/10 for 40+ hours of work. Obviously the vast, vast majority of people make more money actually working, but it can often be a negligible difference for the amount of work required.

And for the record, I'm not incorrect about unemployment. I've been through it, I know people that have been through it, that's how it works, because again, you're not taking the whole picture into account. Unemployment pays you a maximum percentage based on your hourly and total wage, but health insurance and other benefits are not removed from it like they are from your regular paycheck, while if you combine it with other programs, you pay nothing or next to nothing for those.

And yes, I know that most poor and homeless people are employed full or more than full time. That's pretty much why this happens.

You're being dramatic. I never put a claim in your mouth. I stuck to the essence of the argument, which is whether or not you're better off working than living off the government. Clearly, I think you're better off working. If you agreed with that claim prior to your latest response, then you've done a poor job of showing it. That said, I'm not one to look a gift horse in the mouth, so I'm glad to hear that we agree.

"It can often be a negligible difference" plays down your agreement. The difference is not negligible. Given that you are not eligible for housing assistance if you are not working, and given the combined totals of food stamps and cash assistance, you are far and away better off making a minimum wage than not working at all. It's no contest. Your allusion to Medicaid admittedly complicates this matter a little bit, but only a little bit since you can still take advantage of that in a minimum wage position.

Payroll taxes (health insurance, as you put it) are not removed from unemployment insurance, no, but they amount to a combined 7.35% of your total earnings and the only way to receive unemployment insurance benefits is to have worked, which means that you did, in point of fact, pay your payroll taxes for a sustained period of time. In addition, the 5% tax which is usually applied to unemployment benefits covers the majority of that and the help it gives you in finding a job makes it that much easier for the government to get back to taxing you all the way.

You originally stated that you don't pay taxes on government benefits. That's not true. That's all I was saying. Thank you for amending your statements.

Thank you for taking the time to have this conversation with me. My best wishes to you and yours.

P.S.: In most cases, you cannot acquire housing assistance without demonstrating that you have an earned income. Even those with housing assistance are given the boot if they cannot pay their rent, reduced or subsidized as it may be.

The only options for people who will not work is the shelter system or outright homelessness, in which case your analogy about an extra bathroom becomes downright absurd. I don't know if you've ever stepped foot inside a shelter, but if you have, then you are fully aware that you're better off with a full-time job at Burger King and on Section 8 than you are not working and living in a shelter. It's not even a contest.

So tell me how its abused on my family? Is it abused by giving my family 400 dollars a month while being raised by a single parent that gets no child support from a deadbeat **** of a dad, is in and out of houses and apartments constantly, and on top of that cant find a job because there are plenty of illegals that apply for the same job yet meet none of the requirements?

"
>be me working ******* at Walmart
>running customer service desk
>working late
>lady comes in wanting to buy jewelry
>jewelry counter closed so check her out at service desk
>she has over $600 in gold
>she pays in hard cash, crisp hundred dollars bills
>mfw she swipes a ******* ebtcard for a coke
"
"I work retail for Target. 30 minutes before close. Cashiering. White guy walks up with a kid and a shopping cart packed full of TGI Friday's frozen appetizers. I ring him up, takes 10 minutes. Every few scans prompts a free $5 gift card. Can't find his EBT/SNAP. Suspend transaction while he searches / calls wife. Everyone else has left the store. It's now 10 minutes after close. I work market. Accepting that I'll probably have to defect out all this food. He walks up to me and says he can't find it and will have to put it on his credit card. ********* . The rage welling up within me rivaled that of Tryndamere"

You need to show a **** load of documentation that you have pretty much no income and you can only use it on things that can be consumed so you can buy food with it but can't buy anything else people use every day like toilet paper for example. If you try to buy a single item that isn't food with EBT they will also suspend any funds you have. So if you get a job you lose most of the money they give you, you buy anything other than food you lose it, you try to return food items you can't get cash from it. Where did you get the idea that it's the most abused thing in modern government?

"If you try to buy a single item that isn't food with EBT they will also suspend any funds you have."

This is entirely, absolutely, one hundred percent wrong. I worked part time at a grocery store, and people bought things that weren't EBT covered all the time. Let's say you bought 50 bucks worth of food and then a 10 buck pre cooked chicken (pre cooked food usually isn't covered. It isn't at my store, for the record) EBT would pay for the food and you'd have to pay with cash or debit for what wasn't covered in the same order.

Suspending EBT for attempting to buy unapproved things is the stupidest idea ever since it's incredibly easy to be mistaken about what is and isn't covered. (For example, there were food bars at my grocery store. The hot food bar was NOT covered by EBT, but the cold food bar was covered. It can get confusing.)

But don't worry, it's also incrediby easy to game the system since many stores in poor areas exchange EBT for cash and then bill to government for food they haven't sold. For example, someone buys 20 bucks worth of food with EBT. The clerk doesn't give them the food and gives them 10 bucks cash. The government pays the 20 dollars to the store for the food that wasn't actually sold so the store gets ten free dollars and keeps their inventory while the 'customer' gets cash to use on whatever the hell he wants.

My family uses EBT cuz we poor and this is not how it works. the govt has cracked down on this stuff and its difficult to even obtain this stuff. I would know because we were denied once even though we have always lived in public housing... ppl saying its easy to abuse are the cashiers seeing people abuse them... qs is, do u ever see those people again? cuz once u get caught, one is screwed.

I don't know how recently you saw people buy things not covered but I can assure you that now they will have a **** fit if you buy something that's not covered.

If you read what's allowed it's not that confusing. Things that are covered are anything that can be consumed like food and drinks with the exception of hot food (fast food/restaurants/hot food bar) and alcoholic drinks.

There is a type of EBT coverage that allows you to get cash back but the cash you can get back and spend is very limited, I think this is what you are seeing but it is allowed if the person has cash back privileges that they got approved apply for. This cash back is supposed to be used for things like toilet paper, tooth paste, etc and you can only get a small amount so people don't buy booze with it or something.

I worked at a grocery store for a few years, and we would get people using EBT all the time. Usually they're nice enough people, they know how the system works, they pay with EBT for what it covers. and pay the rest with cash or credit. Most of them were great about it, and as a cashier I always went out of my way not to mention that they were using food stamps, or make them feel bad about it in any way. **** happens right?

Well one day I got a lady in who walked up to the counter with an entire ******* cart full of only wine. 3-4 cases of assorted wines. I scan everything per usual, and give her the total. "That will be $210 miss." She then breaks out an EBT card Which doesn't cover alcohol and swipes it. The register processes her card, and comes back with the remaining amount of $210. I try to tell her subtly and kindly "It will still be $210 miss, do you have another card or something to pay with?" At which point she tells me that she just swiped her card, and she needs her receipt. I explain that EBT doesn't cover alcohol, and she GOES OFF.... She called me names that I had never even known existed... said she would ******* kill me, and who the **** am I to tell her how EBT works...blah blah blah. She ended up being physically pulled out of the store by security while kicking and screaming....

Dudes like you give me hope I unfortunately use EBT **** happens economy sucks I have a **** job but both me and my wife work we have 1 little girl and another on the way (second baby was not planned) about a week ago i was buying groceries nothing over the top like 50 frozen pizzas but sensible **** my total came to 84.78 we get 97 a month the woman behind me was pissed off i was using a snap card and laid into me about being a drain on the economy and all this **** its embarrassing enough to ask someone for help i don't need someone pointing it out anyway... the guy at the register apologized for her rudeness and then straight up refused to serve her turns out he was the owner of the store she must have had 150-200 dollars in groceries and he kicked her out just like that told me I was always welcome back in his store I damn near cried as I shook his hand....

It is people like you that deserve to be given these sorts of things too. It can be hard trying to raise a family, but you are trying the best you can, even with the way the economy is. I hope you get a pay raise as well some time soon, as you do deserve it.

It really isn't all that hard to go down to your local walmart and get a job. Where I live they hire all the time because nobody wants to work there. They give 40 hours a week and often a little above minimum wage. I understand that jobs are hard to come by but at some point when you can't find anything else you gotta bite the bullet and take a job that is less than ideal.

it's not always that easy. Growing up my mom had to go to the barnabas center(where they give out food collected from food drives) aside from what we got there we lived off ramen, hamburger helper, and macaroni until she got her tax refund and we were able to buy real food. She worked 60 hours a week and took all the overtime she could. Despite that we barely had enough money for the month and we didn't qualify for food stamp until her hours were cut down to ~35 a week. After that we were able to buy healthy food and we never had to worry about being broke at the end of the month.

Sorry for the rant i just hate how people act like a job will fix everything. obviously some people abuse the system but for families like mine it can save us from having diabetes and heart disease by the age of 15

Goddamn Welfare man. When I was a kid my family was poor. With a disabled mother going through a very lengthy process to get Social Security and stuff, my family of 3 had to survive off of $355 a month for 3 years. My brother had to work his life away doing "under the table" jobs because any meager amount he could make at an actual job was "too much". Hell, they even withheld child support. The system is broken as hell but I have no idea how they could fix it with all the deadbeat moochers taking up money from Welfare.

>be me working ******* at Walmart
>running customer service desk
>working late
>lady comes in wanting to buy jewelry
>jewelry counter closed so check her out at service desk
>she has over $600 in gold
>she pays in hard cash, crisp hundred dollars bills
>mfw she swipes a ******* ebtcard for a coke

I'm a night crew guy at Hyvee and i have only seen a few people use it responsibly(and since its night you see a **** ton of ebt and wic **** come through). i have seen people buy only the expensive like , stake name brand **** cupcakes and other unnecessary **** . a guy i work with told me about a guy who came in and bought a $50 can of caviar then boasted about it , this one bitch used 3 different wic orders then proceeded to buy $300 in extra food. most of these people came in wearing dresses and suits. this **** is widely abused and also hinders the people who really need it from getting it.

My mom used to be the Assistant customer service manager at a Food Lion, one day a lady came in and complained that she could not buy dog food with her ebt, after a while of my mom trying to work with her the lady said " **** it, I'll just buy them stakes than!"

It's kind of impressive how many people with full time jobs QUALIFY for benefits like EBT. Walmart is a great example considering they high percentage of employees who qualify for a medical card even before the affordable healthcare act.

It amazes me that there is someone who would fake **** like this and take a picture of it because I assure you no business would actually put a note up like this. Especially considering how much business they would lose by NOT accepting EBT

All these people complaining about lack of jobs. Look up one god damn job in the blue collar industry and I guarantee you'll find something. Maybe it's not something you want but it pays handsomely and its usually only 4 days a week with 12 hour shifts.

I work retail for Target. 30 minutes before close. Cashiering. White guy walks up with a kid and a shopping cart packed full of TGI Friday's frozen appetizers. I ring him up, takes 10 minutes. Every few scans prompts a free $5 gift card. Can't find his EBT/SNAP. Suspend transaction while he searches / calls wife. Everyone else has left the store. It's now 10 minutes after close. I work market. Accepting that I'll probably have to defect out all this food. He walks up to me and says he can't find it and will have to put it on his credit card. ********* . The rage welling up within me rivaled that of Tryndamere

This asshole wasted eight people's time when he could have just put it on his credit from the get go. If you can afford to have a ******* credit card, you don't need EBT/SNAP.

(Ombra here) Chances are he couldn't afford to have a credit card. Having a credit card doesn't mean you can afford it. But when your family hasn't eaten for 3 days and the store tells you that if you sign up for their credit card (Not rewards card mind you, credit card) they will pay your total, you find that you're more inclined to do it.

A lot of the time, people are forced to get credit cards to pay for stuff anyways. I'd actually suggest watching a documentary, specifically on debt in the US, because yes, a lot of the time, it's people who ****** themselves over, but just as, if not more often, it's because people needed money right then and didn't know where else to get it.