it can be credited for calling BS on our money-driven political system and launching a national conversation about class and economic inequality-one that still looms large in the presidential campaign.

skullkrusher:Old_Chief_Scott: skullkrusher: Old_Chief_Scott: skullkrusher: I thought Mother Jones was a progressive paper? Why is it trying to make occupiers look like exactly the opposite of righteous, everyman fed up with corporatism?

"I felt like I was making too much money"... wow, dude.

Maybe they felt an obligation to report the facts.

I'd imagine there were factual account of people who didn't sound as terrible as most of this farking schmoes

Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha, good one dude!

where was the joke that prompted your sarcastic laughter?

I guess it's one of those things that if I have to explain it it won't be very funny.

Uh, I don't know, maybe someplace where the cost of living isn't stratospheric and construction jobs are plentiful like North Carolina?

You can't do that. In Brooklyn, you can be a funemployed kidult with a kickstarter plan for selling artisanal pickles from the back of your recumbent penny farthing. Try that in North Carolina, and you'll just be taken for a bum.

Uh, I don't know, maybe someplace where the cost of living isn't stratospheric and construction jobs are plentiful like North Carolina?

You can't do that. In Brooklyn, you can be a funemployed kidult with a kickstarter plan for selling artisanal pickles from the back of your recumbent penny farthing. Try that in North Carolina, and you'll just be taken for a bum.

Uh, I don't know, maybe someplace where the cost of living isn't stratospheric and construction jobs are plentiful like North Carolina?

You can't do that. In Brooklyn, you can be a funemployed kidult with a kickstarter plan for selling artisanal pickles from the back of your recumbent penny farthing. Try that in North Carolina, and you'll just be taken for a bum.

Or a Yankee.

Or one of the thousands of people who came here only to discover that the jobless rate is 9.6% and the construction industry is composed almost entirely of guys from Mexico or Guatemala who are willing to work as trades for as little as $13 an hour.

I mentioned several times that protesting is a romantic, youthful idealistic pastime, but it's very ignorable and it's not very constructive, and it usually fizzles out when it smacks the cold, hard slab of reality. It is a three year old throwing a tantrum on the kitchen floor, only it's a group of adults doing it in a public setting.

Protesting by itself has a very low percentage rate insomuch as achieving any of its aims (if those aims are at all concrete and realistic). The teeming examples throughout history have shown protests of being everything from peaceful to violent, from intellectual to ignorant, from earnest to goofy to celebratory. Protests have encapsulated all types of moods, settings and public atmospheres, from rage-filled riots to meditative hunger strikes. If there's one commonality among all protests, it's that the actual protest itself does very little to change the status quo.

It's what happens after the protest that matters.

Protests are good at raising awareness and identifying problems. They are not good at finding solutions. If the problems are already well-known, then the protests are superfluous. Protesting can be a catalyst for change but it is not change itself. Change can only come via one of three ways (or all three), and this is something the OWS movement failed to understand. The movement was ignored by the insulating elites because so long as none of the protestors obtained any real power, there was nothing to fear. The system is unaffected -- OWS can starve on the street or be kicked out by the Police, it doesn't really matter.

Summed up, Occupy Wall Street was doomed. It was doomed because it never obtained any power. Real power. The kind of power that the Police don't kick out of the park. As I said, there are three ways to do this:

Politically: Since the system is rotten to the core and all elected officials and those running for office are wholly subsidiaries of the kleptocratic plutocracy raping the nation, this is not a partisan issue but a populace one. OWS should have put forth its own candidates, have them run for office and win, and have them propose legislation in OWS' favor. No existing candidate or representatives subscribe to this mandate. The only way to truly change the process is to replace the corrupt seeds currently poisoning it. And make sure the replacements are incorruptible.

Economically: Money (or lack thereof) is a powerful motivator and it makes everything move faster, better, and with a purpose. Most of OWS hated money and Capitalism and it failed to understand that the system is not going away and the only way to change the system is to use money to influence it (and no, this is not a contradiction). Capitalism is not the problem. Capitalism itself has no ethical or moral value -- it is just a tool, like a hammer, and like any hammer you can use it to build a house or bash someone's skull in. There's nothing sinful about making money and using that money to further your private and public ventures. That's what all rich people do. That's what OWS didn't.

Militarily: I'm not actually advocating this option, just pointing out that it's available and has been known to be quite successful in the past. If the other two options are not feasible and there is no further recourse and they have nothing to lose, then OWS should have organized into an army and physically (and violently) stormed the seats of power and ruthlessly tossed out the ones who have broken the nation. This is very much the desperation option, when there is no hope to avoid eternal serfdom. Ironically, while they live in a country where firearms are freely obtainable and they had the numbers, OWS failed to take the crucial step from protest to populist uprising.

OWS started out broke, unarmed and leaderless, and that is why they failed, because there is no such group in history that has ever achieved power with these three traits.

I was at Zucotti last year. I ran into some of the people from that article. Bobby Copper was probably the most key figure in that movement by virtue of the fact that the sanitation did a miraculous job. Zucotti is a park probably that has less acreage then a lot of people's backyards. You had about thousand people crammed into that space with very little mess considering there was no toilets, no running water, no permanent shelters. The city would have kicked the occupiers months sooner if it wasn't for his efforts and ability to coordinate.

However Occupy Wall Street was a success. It brought back a conversation on labor, politics, the effects of capital on democracy. That's something we haven't talk about as nation in decades. Yeah the reforms are slow. Yes, shiat like the dismantling of the Glass-Stegall act and the Citizen United ruling (the biggest decisions from supreme court since Roe v. Wade) has failed to be appealed. Whether or not we can save ourselves has yet to be seen. I think we can change the course and ourselves in time. Though things may have to get a lot worse for people to understand fully.

Ishkur:Militarily: I'm not actually advocating this option, just pointing out that it's available and has been known to be quite successful in the past. If the other two options are not feasible and there is no further recourse and they have nothing to lose, then OWS should have organized into an army and physically (and violently) stormed the seats of power and ruthlessly tossed out the ones who have broken the nation. This is very much the desperation option, when there is no hope to avoid eternal serfdom. Ironically, while they live in a country where firearms are freely obtainable and they had the numbers, OWS failed to take the crucial step from protest to populist uprising.

Put down the bong and back away slowly. Go out and get some fresh air. You'll feel better.

Mock26:The Occupiers will end up just like the Hippies. Some of them will continue to live up to the ideals that they are espousing, but most of them will melt back into mainstream America.

Then as I understand it, hanging out on interstate on-ramps with a cardboard sign, claiming to be religious vets is "...continuing to live up to the ideals that they are espousing,.." Right now, Occupiers are all panhandling quarters in Pioneer Square, here in Portland.

Correct me if I am wrong here, but by definition OWCS protesters are protesting at OCWS. Otherwise they are former OCWS protesters, in which case the "Well duh" clause is in effect and the Submitter should be ridiculed mercilessly for an hour or more, for submitting something so Romerilly obvious.

drivingsouth:I know what these assholes aren't doing.........they're not replanting the grass they killed where they had their "encampment" in Pittsburgh. I was surprised. I really thought the occu-tards would replant the grass that was killed where they had their tents just like they promised they would.

I walk past that park everyday. It's amazing that it's almost a year later and it still needs to be fenced off due to the repairs required. It looks like the grass is finally going to take root, so I'm looking forward to eating lunch by the fountain again.

WTFDYW:OldManDownDRoad: Back in the late 60s and early 70s, my family had several groups of people approach us about living in the several old houses that were in various states of decay around our farm....

Franco:I was at Zucotti last year. I ran into some of the people from that article. Bobby Copper was probably the most key figure in that movement by virtue of the fact that the sanitation did a miraculous job. Zucotti is a park probably that has less acreage then a lot of people's backyards. You had about thousand people crammed into that space with very little mess considering there was no toilets, no running water, no permanent shelters. The city would have kicked the occupiers months sooner if it wasn't for his efforts and ability to coordinate.

However Occupy Wall Street was a success. It brought back a conversation on labor, politics, the effects of capital on democracy. That's something we haven't talk about as nation in decades. Yeah the reforms are slow. Yes, shiat like the dismantling of the Glass-Stegall act and the Citizen United ruling (the biggest decisions from supreme court since Roe v. Wade) has failed to be appealed. Whether or not we can save ourselves has yet to be seen. I think we can change the course and ourselves in time. Though things may have to get a lot worse for people to understand fully.

IshkurEconomically: Money (or lack thereof) is a powerful motivator and it makes everything move faster, better, and with a purpose. Most of OWS hated money and Capitalism and it failed to understand that the system is not going away and the only way to change the system is to use money to influence it (and no, this is not a contradiction). Capitalism is not the problem. Capitalism itself has no ethical or moral value -- it is just a tool, like a hammer, and like any hammer you can use it to build a house or bash someone's skull in. There's nothing sinful about making money and using that money to further your private and public ventures. That's what all rich people do. That's what OWS didn't.

Economic power is not just about money, just as "economics" does not just mean "capitalism". "The economy" is just the aggregate of the production and distribution of goods and services. When something is produced, distributed, and consumed, that is economic activity. Selling anything is obviously economic activity, but so is eating food from your own garden, or living in a house. IMO the logical next step (if not first step) for Occupy was always building/housing liberation, or squatting if you like (although - true story - you don't have to be an unwashed heroin addict to do it). So it makes sense that probably the most effective, longest-lasting, and largest-scale activity of Occupy post-encampments has been along the lines of "Occupy Homes" (or whatever it's called in different places). Get people's needs met, and they'll support you.

"Caucasian Islamophile"? Was she hoping she get to be the widow of a Jihadist?

Also one more vote for the Laywers stupidity. If you want to help people and you are making too much money (70k bonuses mind you) its absolutely more effective for you to slave away in misery and award large sums to charity. If one is truly Liberal and not bootstrappy then crunching the numbers says that staying at a high paying attorney position and giving to charity is far more effective than trying to do good in person A 70k bonus itself might add a health practioner at a clinic somewhere. Do not understand why even when a Liberal HAS the assets to help he still wants to not use his own resources if he can use some else's. On the heart string side, How bad could it be to work as a high paid, but generous attorney as opposed to being indigent?

skullkrusher:Old_Chief_Scott: skullkrusher: Old_Chief_Scott: skullkrusher: I thought Mother Jones was a progressive paper? Why is it trying to make occupiers look like exactly the opposite of righteous, everyman fed up with corporatism?

"I felt like I was making too much money"... wow, dude.

Maybe they felt an obligation to report the facts.

I'd imagine there were factual account of people who didn't sound as terrible as most of this farking schmoesHa ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha, good one dude!

MattyFridays:skullkrusher: I thought Mother Jones was a progressive paper? Why is it trying to make occupiers look like exactly the opposite of righteous, everyman fed up with corporatism?

"I felt like I was making too much money"... wow, dude.

Although the first part of the quote is stupid, the second part - "and I wasn't happy" speaks volumes.

You can take any job in the world, but if you're not happy with it, you're going to be miserable. Doesn't matter how much money you make.

I was in a job for five years in which I was miserable but I was making good money. I actually took a job that paid less than what I was making (it wasn't a huge financial cut, but it was sizable in relation to benefits) for happiness.

So, in summary, before OWS they were all varying degrees of lazy, dirty hippies and after OWS, they are still various degrees of lazy, dirty hippies (with some white trash drug whore mixed in with ol Elizabeth)...yeah, not surprised.

Uh, I don't know, maybe someplace where the cost of living isn't stratospheric and construction jobs are plentiful like North Carolina?

You can't do that. In Brooklyn, you can be a funemployed kidult with a kickstarter plan for selling artisanal pickles from the back of your recumbent penny farthing. Try that in North Carolina, and you'll just be taken for a bum.

Or a Yankee.

Or one of the thousands of people who came here only to discover that the jobless rate is 9.6% and the construction industry is composed almost entirely of guys from Mexico or Guatemala who are willing to work as trades for as little as $13 an hour.

Occupy Raleigh had a spot off the beaten path they were paying rent on for awhile, then they got evicted from there. I thought they might go to Moore Square Park but the homeless pretty much have all the good real estate taken up there, at least they used too, Havent been downtown in awhile

drivingsouth:I know what these assholes aren't doing.........they're not replanting the grass they killed where they had their "encampment" in Pittsburgh. I was surprised. I really thought the occu-tards would replant the grass that was killed where they had their tents just like they promised they would.

At least we finally got new sod laid down a couple weeks ago.Money probably came out of my pay.

/office window overlooks the park//long time Mellon employee///my lawn, get off of it

OldManDownDRoad:Sunday afternoon I was sitting on my breezeway, enjoying life, when a young guy drove up into the yard and asked if he could speak to me for a few minutes. Sure enough, he wanted to know if he could move into the old house and plant a garden in return for helping me around the farm. I'm still mulling that over, these days I'm more worried about being sued if he burns the place down around his ears. But, it would be kind of fun to have some hippies around again.

I like you a lot. You sound fun.

I've also got a stack of old windows outside my door and I'm going for attempt #3 on my greenhouse. My real house, however, is perfectly normal. :)

While I'm sorta surprised OWS didn't last( I thought it would resume this summer) I'm not really that surprised. Yes lack of organization probably had a good deal to do with that and people got jobs or whatever. It was important and I have a feeling that was just the first wave of protest in regards to corporations and Wall Street./The protest/riot that led to the Boston Massacre wasn't immediately followed up.

xanadian:In that article, I learned everything I need to know about why OWS failed.

OWS didn't achieve many of its overly lofty goals but getting people questioning and pissed at Wall Street again is hardly a failure.

Bear in mind I was moderating an "official" live chat for it for a few months (as official as something for that could have been) and keeping it from being overrun by RONPAUL dicks and Venus Project cultists was quite the challenge. I still have flames directed towards me personally that still exist on zerohedge from that time, which I consider something of a badge of honor.