google ... white helmets fraud ... I can do that and post just as many links ... what does it prove?

clearly - I can't get anyone to take the time to see the other perspective ... which is understandable ...

what scares me tho is that the countries beating the drums of war ... the US/UK/France/Israel ... they have a sordid history of lying and overthrowing countries ... yet - this is the side people choose to stand with ...

How do we know that the Syrian ambassador to the UN is not just another version of Baghdad Bob? And fuck John Bolton. I don’t give his world view an ounce of credence. And how do we know that the videos you referenced are also not propaganda? Were you in Syria? Then how do you know? You made that claim about Bill Cosby. As for the targeting of civilians? It happens all the time because armed forces, particularly rebel armed forces don’t mass 60+ in a basement. The strategy is to go after the women, children and elderly of the rebel fighters. Weren’t they, the rebels, given safe passage out of the besieged section of Douma to points north? Your arguments tend to fall apart upon cursory examination. Believe it or not, there are reputable, well respected journalists and media reporting on facts. It’s not all some conspiracy to grab Syria for an invasion of Iran. Team Trump Treason, John Bolton and the neocon Middle East policy all suck but that doesn’t mean we Americans support what’s going on in Syria or are duped by the media.

Oh dear ... ok - who are your well respected journalists that have been to Syria and reporting?

Of course I haven't been to Syria - what sort of argument is that!? I'm guessing you haven't either. I've been researching this for a year or so now. I treat this issue like I do everything as rational and objectively and as critically as possible. I have my biases but they generally don't lean towards people who are accused of atrocities.

So ... the videos I post could be propaganda!! Absolutely! All I ask is that you listen to them as you would videos from any other source and think critically.

At the crux of this for me is that I am a humanitarian who is anti-war and hopes for peace. In seeing what is going on in Libya, Iraq, Yemen and Afghanistan now - it breaks my heart. All these places have one common theme and I don't want to see that happen again in Syria.

Show me videos of a horrendous life in Syria pre-war ... show me women being oppressed ... show me a military dictatorship ... this is simply not factually how Syria was before the war. If you don't believe me - go find out yourself from people who live there.

I know it sucks being a patriotic American to hear this stuff. But this shit doesn't change unless people open their eyes to what's being done in the interests of American freedoms. When i think chemical weapons - I think napalm. And we all know who has used napalm over the years.

Do you personally know and have spoken with someone who’s traveled to Syria before the Arab spring? How about Yemen? Egypt? Jordan?

Show me free and fair elections and a Syrian population able to speak freely, demonstrate for redress of grievances and openly criticize their government without fear and societal repression. Pre-Arab spring.

My American patriotism doesn’t make me blind to the war mongering neocons, their ilk and the large scale suffering they perpetuate around the world. But that doesn’t make Assad a swell guy. Or Putin.

actually yes ... Canada has taken a lot of syrian refugees and I know several people who have sponsored families and people ... I don't know anyone from Yemen, Egypt or Jordan nor have I spoken to anyone personally who has been to those 3 countries prior to the arab spring ...

Syria did not have open and multi candidate elections until 2014 ... they had around 80% voter turnout and they even had voting booths in foreign countries where they were open for 2 days and then extended because so many people wanted to vote ... if you subscribe to the theory that those elections were fraudulent ... then all I can say is "chads" ... seriously tho - he won that election by a landslide ...

What is it then that makes you refuse to listen or read another viewpoint on this ... what makes you not want to ask the question - we fucked up Iraq and Libya on lies - wouldn't we do it again? ... there are true brutal dictators around the world like Mugabe but nothing gets done ... what makes the US/UK, with a shameful history, the moral compass for this world!?

How are so many people sucking up pure garbage as fact? Scary shit... people using social media and random tweets as their source of information... this is only going to get worse

social media is the US source for wanting to bomb Syria ... it's also the medium by which most of the western media is getting their info whether it's the white helmets youtube channel or that fake 8 year old girl who was reported to be tweeting from Syria ...

in any case - if you are referring to me as using social media and random tweets as my source - it shows that you actually aren't paying attention to what I'm posting because they are from independent journalists in Syria ...

google ... white helmets fraud ... I can do that and post just as many links ... what does it prove?

clearly - I can't get anyone to take the time to see the other perspective ... which is understandable ...

what scares me tho is that the countries beating the drums of war ... the US/UK/France/Israel ... they have a sordid history of lying and overthrowing countries ... yet - this is the side people choose to stand with ...

I suppose because this isn't CNN or Fox News ... it's just going to be called a conspiracy website ...

Ok so Richard Engle is not a legit feild reporter ?

Or the reporting in The New Yorker, columns by Thomas Friedman, NYT Sunday Magazine, The Economist? Reputable news reporting, not to mention books by folks who were former state Department officials or academics who have studied and written about the region for decades. Plus, personal conversation with friends and family who have repeatedly traveled to the region. Don’t assume everyone is a corporate media dupe who can’t possibly understand the problem or the discern the propaganda from facts.

I do not have nearly as much knowledge about the history of the area as many in this thread. However, my daughter has formed close friendships with a number of Syrian refugees now in Canada, and she tells me that they hate Assad with a passion and blame him for many of these ills. They are no longer in the country, obviously, but they are still in touch with friends and family there. And yes, one of her friends had told her he lost a friend in the prior chemical weapons attack, so people are indeed dying.

I suppose because this isn't CNN or Fox News ... it's just going to be called a conspiracy website ...

Ok so Richard Engle is not a legit feild reporter ?

I don't know Richard Engle from Don Knotts ... all I said was if the source information is the White Helmets - it's not reliable ... this is the crux of the issue here ... the primary reporting source on Syria is not actually from journalists on the ground in Syria ... they are reliant on supposed aid organizations that like the Syrian Observatory of Human Rights which is some guy in the UK ...

I do not have nearly as much knowledge about the history of the area as many in this thread. However, my daughter has formed close friendships with a number of Syrian refugees now in Canada, and she tells me that they hate Assad with a passion and blame him for many of these ills. They are no longer in the country, obviously, but they are still in touch with friends and family there. And yes, one of her friends had told her he lost a friend in the prior chemical weapons attack, so people are indeed dying.

I do not have nearly as much knowledge about the history of the area as many in this thread. However, my daughter has formed close friendships with a number of Syrian refugees now in Canada, and she tells me that they hate Assad with a passion and blame him for many of these ills. They are no longer in the country, obviously, but they are still in touch with friends and family there. And yes, one of her friends had told her he lost a friend in the prior chemical weapons attack, so people are indeed dying.

I'm sure people have a range of opinions, just like citizens of this country (and really any country) have a range of opinions, but knowing social media, I will tend to believe the people I can talk to myself rather than the people tweeting.

Edit: and by the way, this is not at all an endorsement of US policy here.

google ... white helmets fraud ... I can do that and post just as many links ... what does it prove?

clearly - I can't get anyone to take the time to see the other perspective ... which is understandable ...

what scares me tho is that the countries beating the drums of war ... the US/UK/France/Israel ... they have a sordid history of lying and overthrowing countries ... yet - this is the side people choose to stand with ...

So 7 years of documented war crimes and atrocities are total manufactured bullshit? Ok, sure, show me another tweet lol

Who’s documenting the US war crimes that they’ve committed in the name of freedom...

Good lord, I give up. America is evil so that means everybody else gets a pass and Assad is a great dude lol

I'm sure life was just swell in Syria... and the Arab spring never came to Syria... no protests ever happened... everything reported by countless reputable sources over the last 7 years have been bullshit... the UN documenting war crimes is bullshit... the ICC complaint if Assad war crimes is bullshit... some priest and Ron Paul know the truth... it's the CIA's fault that Allepo was bombed to pieces... it's the CIA's fault that Assad cracked down on protesters violently and it turned into a civil war... if was the CIA that targeted civilian areas in urban centers... it was the CIA who invited in the Russuan military...

Assad is a great man, all Syrians were happy, and the Arab spring was a bullshit hoax

So 7 years of documented war crimes and atrocities are total manufactured bullshit? Ok, sure, show me another tweet lol

Who’s documenting the US war crimes that they’ve committed in the name of freedom...

I would charge W & Cheney for war crimes for ordering the use of torture... I dont give a shit what their lawyers saud... torture is a war crime according to the ICC

You've got the wrong one my friend, I'm no hawk or apologist... i have zero trust for the CIA... but I know bullshit when I see it... and this fake news narrative telling me Assad is a good guy is flat out bullshit... 7 years of well documented atrocities can't be ignored

So 7 years of documented war crimes and atrocities are total manufactured bullshit? Ok, sure, show me another tweet lol

Who’s documenting the US war crimes that they’ve committed in the name of freedom...

I would charge W & Cheney for war crimes for ordering the use of torture... I dont give a shit what their lawyers saud... torture is a war crime according to the ICC

You've got the wrong one my friend, I'm no hawk or apologist... i have zero trust for the CIA... but I know bullshit when I see it... and this fake news narrative telling me Assad is a good guy is flat out bullshit... 7 years of well documented atrocities can't be ignored

What bullshit ... war hell is ... both side commit atrocities. Everybody keeps going back to Bush. Please tell what your Nobel peace winning (cough, cough) POTUS did for Middle East ... I’m not sure there is a us president that has done much for peace.

So 7 years of documented war crimes and atrocities are total manufactured bullshit? Ok, sure, show me another tweet lol

Who’s documenting the US war crimes that they’ve committed in the name of freedom...

I would charge W & Cheney for war crimes for ordering the use of torture... I dont give a shit what their lawyers saud... torture is a war crime according to the ICC

You've got the wrong one my friend, I'm no hawk or apologist... i have zero trust for the CIA... but I know bullshit when I see it... and this fake news narrative telling me Assad is a good guy is flat out bullshit... 7 years of well documented atrocities can't be ignored

What bullshit ... war hell is ... both side commit atrocities. Everybody keeps going back to Bush. Please tell what your Nobel peace winning (cough, cough) POTUS did for Middle East ... I’m not sure there is a us president that has done much for peace.

What's your point? What does any of that have to do with what Assad is doing in Syria?

So 7 years of documented war crimes and atrocities are total manufactured bullshit? Ok, sure, show me another tweet lol

Who’s documenting the US war crimes that they’ve committed in the name of freedom...

I would charge W & Cheney for war crimes for ordering the use of torture... I dont give a shit what their lawyers saud... torture is a war crime according to the ICC

You've got the wrong one my friend, I'm no hawk or apologist... i have zero trust for the CIA... but I know bullshit when I see it... and this fake news narrative telling me Assad is a good guy is flat out bullshit... 7 years of well documented atrocities can't be ignored

What bullshit ... war hell is ... both side commit atrocities. Everybody keeps going back to Bush. Please tell what your Nobel peace winning (cough, cough) POTUS did for Middle East ... I’m not sure there is a us president that has done much for peace.

What's your point? What does any of that have to do with what Assad is doing in Syria?

So 7 years of documented war crimes and atrocities are total manufactured bullshit? Ok, sure, show me another tweet lol

Who’s documenting the US war crimes that they’ve committed in the name of freedom...

I would charge W & Cheney for war crimes for ordering the use of torture... I dont give a shit what their lawyers saud... torture is a war crime according to the ICC

You've got the wrong one my friend, I'm no hawk or apologist... i have zero trust for the CIA... but I know bullshit when I see it... and this fake news narrative telling me Assad is a good guy is flat out bullshit... 7 years of well documented atrocities can't be ignored

What bullshit ... war hell is ... both side commit atrocities. Everybody keeps going back to Bush. Please tell what your Nobel peace winning (cough, cough) POTUS did for Middle East ... I’m not sure there is a us president that has done much for peace.

What's your point? What does any of that have to do with what Assad is doing in Syria?

oh let me see ... the us has no interest in peace in the middle ... they are likely the number 1 reason that the Middle East is so de-stabile, at least they keep military contractors in business...

To suggest that all these gas attacks are faked and that all these governments and independent media organizations are in on it would mean a conspiracy so vast that it involves thousands of people. Including many journalists who I have come to respect over dozens of years of reporting. For what exactly? I'm just not buying it.

There are no international media on the ground in syria - that is the basis of the original video in the original post. The international media are getting there information from inside Lebanon or Turkey.

This is total bullshit... I'm flipping through several news providers tonight and they ALL have reporters on the ground in Syria, currently as we speak... why do you keep saying there are no international journalists in Syria? It doesn't even make sense or pass a basic smell test, of course there are international journalists in Syria... Vice on fucking HBO has done reports from Syria for god's sake

To suggest that all these gas attacks are faked and that all these governments and independent media organizations are in on it would mean a conspiracy so vast that it involves thousands of people. Including many journalists who I have come to respect over dozens of years of reporting. For what exactly? I'm just not buying it.

There are no international media on the ground in syria - that is the basis of the original video in the original post. The international media are getting there information from inside Lebanon or Turkey.

This is total bullshit... I'm flipping through several news providers tonight and they ALL have reporters on the ground in Syria, currently as we speak... why do you keep saying there are no international journalists in Syria? It doesn't even make sense or pass a basic smell test, of course there are international journalists in Syria... Vice on fucking HBO has done reports from Syria for god's sake

You are ingesting fake news my friend

If it’s on YouTube, it’s true. Or if a facetard friend liked and shared, it’s real.

To suggest that all these gas attacks are faked and that all these governments and independent media organizations are in on it would mean a conspiracy so vast that it involves thousands of people. Including many journalists who I have come to respect over dozens of years of reporting. For what exactly? I'm just not buying it.

There are no international media on the ground in syria - that is the basis of the original video in the original post. The international media are getting there information from inside Lebanon or Turkey.

This is total bullshit... I'm flipping through several news providers tonight and they ALL have reporters on the ground in Syria, currently as we speak... why do you keep saying there are no international journalists in Syria? It doesn't even make sense or pass a basic smell test, of course there are international journalists in Syria... Vice on fucking HBO has done reports from Syria for god's sake

You are ingesting fake news my friend

Yep Richard Engle was in Syria on the ground reporting about attacks..

To suggest that all these gas attacks are faked and that all these governments and independent media organizations are in on it would mean a conspiracy so vast that it involves thousands of people. Including many journalists who I have come to respect over dozens of years of reporting. For what exactly? I'm just not buying it.

There are no international media on the ground in syria - that is the basis of the original video in the original post. The international media are getting there information from inside Lebanon or Turkey.

This is total bullshit... I'm flipping through several news providers tonight and they ALL have reporters on the ground in Syria, currently as we speak... why do you keep saying there are no international journalists in Syria? It doesn't even make sense or pass a basic smell test, of course there are international journalists in Syria... Vice on fucking HBO has done reports from Syria for god's sake

You are ingesting fake news my friend

Well the title of the thread “Western media lies about Syria”... and your example of international media is HBO.

To suggest that all these gas attacks are faked and that all these governments and independent media organizations are in on it would mean a conspiracy so vast that it involves thousands of people. Including many journalists who I have come to respect over dozens of years of reporting. For what exactly? I'm just not buying it.

There are no international media on the ground in syria - that is the basis of the original video in the original post. The international media are getting there information from inside Lebanon or Turkey.

This is total bullshit... I'm flipping through several news providers tonight and they ALL have reporters on the ground in Syria, currently as we speak... why do you keep saying there are no international journalists in Syria? It doesn't even make sense or pass a basic smell test, of course there are international journalists in Syria... Vice on fucking HBO has done reports from Syria for god's sake

You are ingesting fake news my friend

Well the title of the thread “Western media lies about Syria”... and your example of international media is HBO.

But the claim that there are no international reporters or have been there reporting about the horrors happening are not true , Richard Engle did a whole report from Syria on the ground...