dazzlingdynamite wrote:The point is that she isn't that emotionally strong if she can't function without a man in her life . . . she falls apart whenever she's left without Edward or Jake. I wouldn't call her a heroine, I'd certify her as a damsel in distress because that is what she does. She sits and waits for someone to save her.

Not true. She got along fine in Pheonix without a boyfriend.And I don't think it was just the losing her boyfriend thing. She's young and naive. She did what a lot of people in their first relationship do. She threw all her eggs in one basket. But there's this theme through the books of this being a larger-than-ordinary love for them. They were destined for each other. She built all her dreams and plans around being a part of him and his family. She was happy and secure in that (apart from the James thing). Then he's gone almost without warning. Its like she was hit by Tyler's van. It came out of nowhere and destroyed everything that she had built her life (current and future) upon. She lost Edward, Alice and the whole Cullen clan. She lost eternity being adored by the man that she loved.True. Many people would get over it. They might be severly depressed for a time but then move on with their lives. But not all. I've worked with divorce recovery programs. Some people can't get out of that depression and move on for years or even decades when they've experienced loss like that.Again, this isn't meant to be some silly high school romance that is here today and gone by next week. Part of the point of the separation is to prove that point. When I first read Twilight I was against Bella becoming a vampire just for this love that she felt for this boy. How would she know what in a human life she would be missing out on? But by her very inability (and Edward's as well) to heal her heart in that painful separation, it proves to have been more than mere puppy love.

As for needing a man--any man...well, she wasn't really looking for a romantic relationship. Told Jacob that she wasn't looking for that with him. Why not one of her girlfriends? Because Edward and Alice had become part of that circle of friends at school. Being with them just reminded her of who was missing. Going to LaPush was theraputic in itself for her because he had never been there. Being with Jacob was an escape. A friendship built upon that. It just happened that the friend there was male. It seems to me that Bella is the type that would have more guy friends than female friends. There's nothing wrong with that. It doesn't mean that there's something inherently weak in her character because her best friend was a guy.

I'm with LeahRose I would have been wanting to learn how to kick those vampire butts, yet she's just content to forever be this damsel who can never save herself . . . rather pathetic if you ask me.

What exactly do you expect her to do? Learn Karate?Yes. In the Buffy universe, you could build up some strength, get yourself an ax with a wooden stake in the handle and take care of yourself.But these aren't the Buffy vampires. She can't outrun them (even in her truck). She can't use wooden stakes. She can't use holy water. She can't use sunlight. No garlic either. Do you think she could actually rip one apart limb from limp? That's really the only way and she's not physically capable of it--even if she took anabolic steroids and trained for the Olympics she would still be as breakable as "silk over glass" in comparison to them.

Now, have you actually read the fourth book? When she has that potential for physical stregth to defend herself and then there is the threat impending, what does she do? She doesn't sit around willing to be the damsel any longer. She learns to fight (over Edward's protest). She learns to use her ability. And she uses that ability to defend her vulnerable husband and family.

Now, have you actually read the fourth book? When she has that potential for physical stregth to defend herself and then there is the threat impending, what does she do? She doesn't sit around willing to be the damsel any longer. She learns to fight (over Edward's protest). She learns to use her ability. And she uses that ability to defend her vulnerable husband and family.

I know, she only because useful when she becomes a vampire because humans are weak and useless.

What exactly do you expect her to do? Learn Karate?Yes. In the Buffy universe, you could build up some strength, get yourself an ax with a wooden stake in the handle and take care of yourself.But these aren't the Buffy vampires. She can't outrun them (even in her truck). She can't use wooden stakes. She can't use holy water. She can't use sunlight. No garlic either. Do you think she could actually rip one apart limb from limp? That's really the only way and she's not physically capable of it--even if she took anabolic steroids and trained for the Olympics she would still be as breakable as "silk over glass" in comparison to them.

I don't think she could rip them apart, but she should learn to do something besides waiting for a vampire/shifter to save her. Especially, since she is the reason the vampires are attacking.

Gods are something we don't know if they exist. Many of us do believe in them but we don't surely know. In Bella's world, in the world of Twilight, vampires exist. But they can be killed. It may be very hard, but it's possible. Gods aren't able to be killed and their existence in that world and this world is a question.

leahroselover wrote:They are practically gods because they can only be killed in two ways. Both which are nearly impossible to do.

It's her universe to do what she wants, leahroselover. And I believe Bram Stoker's Dracula wasn't easy to kill either. The same probably applies to Anne Rice's vampires.

They are vampires, they aren't human. They are monsters and they are called like that for a reason. You're not suppose to get involved with them. But Bella did because she loved Edward. Bella, as someone who messes with things she can't understand, she made herself a target.

How many times we didn't see that in movies? People messing with the dead, with magic objects or magical organizatioons? Bella was dealing with something so much bigger, so much dangerous. And, like Buffy, she had friends to help her. Buffy, as you pointed, dragged her friends to the supernatural and they almost got killed more than once. If I do recall, the thing about eternity and eternal love came in picture because of Angel. He had to leave too. Because he wanted someone "who could take you to the light". And she didn't want to hear. She responded as any teenager in love.

And about her parents? I think her mother was just fine with Phill and Charlie was going to be okay too. I don't know how old you guys are, but there is a point you have to choose what you are going be. What you want for yourself. It's your life. Charlie and Renée can't live Bella's life for her. And Bella's choice was becoming a vampire and living with Edward forever. It's not the ideal, she had to change of species, but, so what? If it's what make her happy, so it's okay. I'm happy that Charlie is part of this.

It's her universe to do what she wants, leahroselover. And I believe Bram Stoker's Dracula wasn't easy to kill either. The same probably applies to Anne Rice's vampires.

No you could kill Dracula with a wooden stake through her heart like Anne Rices. They both were weak to sunlight, Dracula could be hurt with holy symbols. A well armed human could have killed one of Anne Rices vampires newborn vamps.

Lioness and Dazzling: Oh, I completely agree that Bella is annoying and sickens me much of the time in Eclipse.At the beginning, Edward has to share some of the blame. If he didn't forbid her going to LaPush, she wouldn't have struggled so hard to go. He should have known her personality well enough by then to know that. But he learned.Perhaps a lot of it was her being naive. But even in New Moon, she shouldn't have allowed Jacob to hold her hand if that's not the relationship that she intended. Then Edward returned and she allowed it to continue. That never sat right with me. So he got his feelings hurt a little. But she was telling him "just friends" then allowing more-than-friends actions. Jacob was definitely given mixed signals which I'm sure helped to lead to that first kiss.THEN she gets engaged to Edward. And she has that kiss with Jacob. *puke* {note to self, calm down, its just a story] *growls* Sorry. That part just makes me angry. She agreed to marriage. And she kisses someone else the next day!? Poor Edward. And then he's so loving and understanding. I totally agree with Bella at that point. She doesn't deserve either of them in that moment.

And what's with the relucatance to marry Edward? Sure. She's gonna, what? Be changed irrevocably into a vampire but wants to just live together with him in case it doesn't work out? I don't understand the logic there. She loves him enough to dedicate herself to eternity as a vampire but can't stomach the thought of being married. LIke that's a bigger commitment than the former? Then she does grudgingly agree but really only so that she can have sex.

UGH! I can't diagree with you two there. She completely disgusts me in much of Eclipse.

Mara Jade Cullen wrote:Lioness and Dazzling: Oh, I completely agree that Bella is annoying and sickens me much of the time in Eclipse.At the beginning, Edward has to share some of the blame. If he didn't forbid her going to LaPush, she wouldn't have struggled so hard to go. He should have known her personality well enough by then to know that. But he learned.Perhaps a lot of it was her being naive. But even in New Moon, she shouldn't have allowed Jacob to hold her hand if that's not the relationship that she intended. Then Edward returned and she allowed it to continue. That never sat right with me. So he got his feelings hurt a little. But she was telling him "just friends" then allowing more-than-friends actions. Jacob was definitely given mixed signals which I'm sure helped to lead to that first kiss.THEN she gets engaged to Edward. And she has that kiss with Jacob. *puke* {note to self, calm down, its just a story] *growls* Sorry. That part just makes me angry. She agreed to marriage. And she kisses someone else the next day!? Poor Edward. And then he's so loving and understanding. I totally agree with Bella at that point. She doesn't deserve either of them in that moment.

And what's with the relucatance to marry Edward? Sure. She's gonna, what? Be changed irrevocably into a vampire but wants to just live together with him in case it doesn't work out? I don't understand the logic there. She loves him enough to dedicate herself to eternity as a vampire but can't stomach the thought of being married. LIke that's a bigger commitment than the former? Then she does grudgingly agree but really only so that she can have sex.

UGH! I can't diagree with you two there. She completely disgusts me in much of Eclipse.

I totally agree with you. Like how do you marry someone just for sex? Marriage is a big deal and if can't understand that you don't want to get married thats a new issue that you have to think about before deciding to turn into a freaking vampire just to be with him!

I feel like much of the poorly done Jacob/Bella/Edward stuff happened just because New Moon and Eclipse were never supposed to happen.

Mara Jade Cullen wrote:Lioness and Dazzling: Oh, I completely agree that Bella is annoying and sickens me much of the time in Eclipse.At the beginning, Edward has to share some of the blame. If he didn't forbid her going to LaPush, she wouldn't have struggled so hard to go. He should have known her personality well enough by then to know that. But he learned.Perhaps a lot of it was her being naive. But even in New Moon, she shouldn't have allowed Jacob to hold her hand if that's not the relationship that she intended. Then Edward returned and she allowed it to continue. That never sat right with me. So he got his feelings hurt a little. But she was telling him "just friends" then allowing more-than-friends actions. Jacob was definitely given mixed signals which I'm sure helped to lead to that first kiss.THEN she gets engaged to Edward. And she has that kiss with Jacob. *puke* {note to self, calm down, its just a story] *growls* Sorry. That part just makes me angry. She agreed to marriage. And she kisses someone else the next day!? Poor Edward. And then he's so loving and understanding. I totally agree with Bella at that point. She doesn't deserve either of them in that moment.

And what's with the relucatance to marry Edward? Sure. She's gonna, what? Be changed irrevocably into a vampire but wants to just live together with him in case it doesn't work out? I don't understand the logic there. She loves him enough to dedicate herself to eternity as a vampire but can't stomach the thought of being married. LIke that's a bigger commitment than the former? Then she does grudgingly agree but really only so that she can have sex.

UGH! I can't diagree with you two there. She completely disgusts me in much of Eclipse.

I totally agree with you. Like how do you marry someone just for sex? Marriage is a big deal and if can't understand that you don't want to get married thats a new issue that you have to think about before deciding to turn into a freaking vampire just to be with him!

I was really mad at her, it seemed so shallow, that she didn't want to get married just because 'she wasn't that sort of girl' and 'no one gets married at eighteen' marriage is supposed to be about showing your devotion and commitment for a person - only doing it officially - the fact that she seemed reluctant to tie herself down did rile me, especially when she went and kissed Jake straight after . . . I guess I never did like the fact that she seemed to get everything she wanted handed to her on a silver plater and yet didn't seem happy about it.She'd get Edward, almost begging to marry her, get Jake kissing her, and yet still be unhappy :S most girls would settle with either and be overwhelming content . . .