Announcement!The Intellectual's Table will return!After a hiatus of more than a year, the Intellectuals Table will return to Writer’s Beat. There will be a three month trial period, after which Staff will decide if the Intellectual’s Table returns for good.

1. There is an inclination for it to be more relaxed and free form than the rest of the forum. This is not an invitation for bad behavior. In the past there were people who could frequent the main forums but not allowed at the Table. Don’t be those people. Reading the rules and FAQs provided will offer a lot of guidance about expected behavior.

2. The Intellectuals Table used to drive a lot of discussion. We are looking forward to that again. At the same time, we would like to see participants also writing actively. (Or at least post the occasional piece)

3. The Intellectuals table will deal with Religious, Political and Social discourse and discussion. (Along with other things) Even when these things are discussed in a respectful manner, there are some people that are easily offended. If you are easily offended, or a person that seeks offense, real or imagined, then the Intellectuals Table will not be a good place to spend your time. If you are a person whose arguments are weak and you employ the “moving the goal posts” strategy, don’t get upset if you get called out on it.

4. Try to keep these discussions on Topic. For example – imagine that a thread topic is a comparison of Baptists versus Catholic denominations of the Christian Faith. The typical “Lol, I’m and atheist and It’s all a fairy tale” posts might be considered not on topic, and probably removed. Also, a mild barb here and there might slide through, but attack the argument and not the member posting the argument.

5. Although there will be an inclination to be more relaxed (see #1) there is the distinct possibility that Staff will have to step in here or there. If Staff edits your post – please leave it in its edited form. Changing it back doesn’t hurt or spite the staff, but it will get you a time out.

6. When Staff instructs a member or members about behavior it is not up for discussion or interpretation. If you feel that you have been singled out or that you haven’t broken any rules, the proper venue to query or protest is PM (Personal Mail) and not in thread.

7. In the past, there have been members that reported other members not for rules infractions, but because they thought an offered opinion was hurtful or dangerous. See #3. Don’t be that person. If a member reports another member over something that is not a rules violation Staff will first gently point them in the proper direction. Repeatedly violating this directive could mean a temporary or full time ban.

There may be other rules or injunctions added as we go along. We hope not, because it would mean that a portion of the membership participating in these free form debates is not acting in a manner consistent with our expected behavior. Don’t make us “go there”.

I'm Bass Reeves and I approve this message!

__________________If you surrender a civilization to avoid social disapproval, you should know that all of history will curse you for your cowardliness - Alice Teller

If John of Patmos would browse the internet today for half an hour, I don't know if the Book of Revelations would be entirely different or entirely the same.

But since I write from ideas I always felt crippled because I couldn't discuss the ideas behind the work. As an atheist much of my work is an attack on religion. As an emerging critical thinker some of my work is anti capitalism and anti government.

And as a hater of bullshit (spin, cons, flim flammers, pick your own word) anything I had to say would offend those who wished to defend a particular brand of bullshit.

(I guess I could stop using 'bullshit' and replace it with 'badly informed' to be more respectful Hmm...)

I'd suggest that conversations about ideas can be handled easily. Attacks on the holder of ideas should be punished. Of all the many groups of thinkers I feel writers are more empowered to handle ideas better than most groups.

My membership in WB has been stormy. But your announcement about of an IT brought the sun out and I can hear the birds again. I would invest my time to see it become a reality.

Hot damn. I'm excited.

wrc

__________________

You're not dead 'til you're dead and when you are you won't know it. So, keep on writing and having fun.

Well, see, I'd rather have my teeth pulled without anesthesia than "discuss" religion on an internet debate forum.

Otherwise, I'm interested to see what the topics might be. Generally, debate forums recycle the same tired arguments or variations of them over and over. And a lot of them are what you hear all the time in the media and what passes for public discourse these days, so they've already been beaten to death.

Even with something topical like the Trump candidacy, if you scratch below the surface, it's just going to be the same old partisan nonsense.

And since the topics are the same, the arguments are usually the same, although people are often quite sure that they're making them for the very first time. Any cleverness beyond that is usually about trying to make someone look silly or feel bad.

I'll reserve judgment. I've done the debate forum thing in the past, and I think only rarely do they do much of anything other than generate negativity and ill will. And who needs that? Life is just too short.

Well, see, I'd rather have my teeth pulled without anesthesia than "discuss" religion on an internet debate forum.

Otherwise, I'm interested to see what the topics might be. Generally, debate forums recycle the same tired arguments or variations of them over and over. And a lot of them are what you hear all the time in the media and what passes for public discourse these days, so they've already been beaten to death.

Even with something topical like the Trump candidacy, if you scratch below the surface, it's just going to be the same old partisan nonsense.

And since the topics are the same, the arguments are usually the same, although people are often quite sure that they're making them for the very first time. Any cleverness beyond that is usually about trying to make someone look silly or feel bad.

I'll reserve judgment. I've done the debate forum thing in the past, and I think only rarely do they do much of anything other than generate negativity and ill will. And who needs that? Life is just too short.

It's not all that^^^ it's just some place we can drop an F-bomb and not get banned. You're way overthinking it.😀

Well, see, I'd rather have my teeth pulled without anesthesia than "discuss" religion on an internet debate forum.

I agree with most of what you say, Binx, but its always interesting to see other people's perspectives on certain issues.

Nobody's ever going to convert a Christian to an atheist or vice versa and religious discussions seem to always end up as a bit of a brawl so like you i'll be staying out of those.

I will look forward to political discussions, though, because they always seem to be US-centric and I'm always interested in seeing the American perspective and sharing the British perception. I'm fascinated by the fact that the more popular a president is outside the US the less popular he seems to be in America (Obama) and vice versa (Bush). I look forward to exploring many issues with you all nd hope to bump into you there Binx.

__________________How wrong it is for a woman to expect the man to build the world she wants, rather than to create it herself. ~ Anais Nin

I agree with most of what you say, Binx, but its always interesting to see other people's perspectives on certain issues.

Nobody's ever going to convert a Christian to an atheist or vice versa and religious discussions seem to always end up as a bit of a brawl so like you i'll be staying out of those.

I will look forward to political discussions, though, because they always seem to be US-centric and I'm always interested in seeing the American perspective and sharing the British perception. I'm fascinated by the fact that the more popular a president is outside the US the less popular he seems to be in America (Obama) and vice versa (Bush). I look forward to exploring many issues with you all nd hope to bump into you there Binx.

I agree it's sometimes interesting to hear other opinions or even fairly boilerplate opinions if they're well-written and presented.

It's kind of funny, but I thought of you and a discussion that's going on now when this revived "Intellectual" table thing came up. Someone took your comments very literally and responded with something personal—a cliche often directed at women when the subject comes up regarding your frame of mind.

So imagine that you had responded in kind and not in the thoughtful manner that you showed in your last post in that thread. You can see how the whole exchange would go downhill pretty fast. But that's what happens when people make arguments based on personal and anecdotal experience and respond with personal comments, regardless of how innocuous they might seem at first.

So can wyf handle it? Based on what I've seen, yes. But I'm not even sure that I can when it's a subject near and dear to me. The only way that I've seen a debate forum work is when there is zero tolerance for any kind of personal dig, even if they're subtle or supposed to be funny or clever. And I don't see that happening here, especially given the disclaimer that things are going to be "relaxed."

That means it's going to be up to moderation to determine just how "relaxed" things can be, and that seldom works in a debate atmosphere. Because depending on who the moderator is, their mood, relationship with the offender, and their own tolerance for personal comments and need to employ them, it's going to be a moving target. And that's almost always frustrating for everyone involved.

Well, see, I'd rather have my teeth pulled without anesthesia than "discuss" religion on an internet debate forum.
....

I'll reserve judgment. I've done the debate forum thing in the past, and I think only rarely do they do much of anything other than generate negativity and ill will. And who needs that? Life is just too short.

You can always opt to not participate - participation will not be mandatory.

__________________If you surrender a civilization to avoid social disapproval, you should know that all of history will curse you for your cowardliness - Alice Teller

If John of Patmos would browse the internet today for half an hour, I don't know if the Book of Revelations would be entirely different or entirely the same.

You can always opt to not participate - participation will not be mandatory.

What a relief!

I was simply responding to wyf's post and discussing the general nature of debate forums. I hope that's OK. And I realize that participation won't be mandatory in the new forum. That would be pretty silly, and rather difficult to enforce wouldn't it?

And I'm assuming participation in this thread isn't mandatory either, so if you would prefer that I not comment that's just fine with me.

I see, as usual, that many members have gone off the road. Too many off topic comments. I thought the proposal was to add a forum to WB where IDEAS could be discussed. There seems to be a virus spreading... I'd call it Oneupsmanship. And that behavior belongs in the Cafe forum.

If you find an idea forum boring because you've heard it all before, don't attend. (Not everyone has heard it and evidence based truth is worth saying over and over.)

George Carlin (available on You Tube) liked to say he came up with his insights by engaging in THINKING. I like thinking. I recommend it. If you haven't done it before, or for awhile, it's not as scary as it seems. The only alternative to thinking is to join the ranks of the Airhead Army.

Thanks for listening...

wrc

__________________

You're not dead 'til you're dead and when you are you won't know it. So, keep on writing and having fun.