Point made guys.I could point out several color and image changes in signs over time;both as manufactured and as a sign ages.I'm sure many of you could do the same.But,as noted,why show the repop guys exactly what I'm looking at?

Rather than start a new thread,I'll just make a couple of observations here.First,I've seen too many collectors become so consumed by the fear of buying a pop that they pass on good signs rather than take a chance.Remember,if you are buying to keep,the only one you have to convince is yourself.

The second observation might possibly have revelance to the sign in question;it looks really good!!I've had visitors at my place look at a sign and say,"it's a repop because it's just too good".Well,no,they are not repops;just dead mint.

As this thread has reached an almost philosophical plateau, let me make a last observation based on Old Iron's comments. Some of us have been collecting so long that some items pre-date reproduction anything. I have some Dr. Pepper signs from a warehouse clean out in 1977 that are dead, solid, NOS, mint. I found them in the shipping crates. I can say the same for a couple of my globes and oil signs- bulk plant treasures from long ago. When someone who hasn't seen my stuff - old line collector or a new one - a often get the 'must be a repop, it's too good' reaction.A collector I know has two Mobil pump plates, made by the same manufacturer (and marked by that company) at obviously different times as the Pegasus logos do not match. Repops? Absolutely not. Just dead solid perfect pieces. And isn't that what we all want?I've seen the Gulf Supreme sign in question. It is very, very nice and I think if you could see it with its heavy shelving, edge and slight field chips, mounting holes, and the cripsness of the artwork, you'd have to agree that if it is indeed a reproduction, it's one of the best ones ever done.I was merely advising caution before labeling a dealer as a crook and an item as "obviously fake." One would hope fairness and circumspection would be in order as all comments will theoretically be here forever.And, yes, let's have a beer . . . .

Shelving IMO is not a way to determine if a sign is real or not. Many other factors come into play which some of them you have stated. KZ1000 has been in the hobby for a long time and I am pretty sure he had a very large gulf collection at one time. You have to take into consideration the people making these repro signs are using old techniques to decieve buyers. Don't get me wrong there are new discoveries everyday.

In no way would I or we say a sign is reproduction because of the condition being "Too Perfect", it is based on variations, mainly Fonts which are used today that WERE NOT available when the signs were originally made. As for passing on a sign that is "too nice it must be a repro" that may be the case with a lot of pickers and newcomers, but most seasoned collectors have "the eye" and can tell right off if something is not right.Could a fake sign get by and fool one of us, certainly, but it is on a very rare occasion. There is NO WAY in writing that we can explain these things to others that have not "been around" and have not been involved in this hobby extensively.

The earliest repop I have personally owned was from the late 1940s.... Quite a few of us have seen signs mounted on tanks and early transports during Korea, most of these were repops.... Before you ask me if I was there? No, but my father was and he started Collecting Gas and Oil items BEFORE it was considered a hobby in the mid to late 1940s...... He and others in his unit bought signs in Japan on R&R and mounted them on his Jeep and on his hooch.

As I posted in a different thread; My father had a sign in his den that he was sure was a repop from the 1920s.....

I myself, started in hobby in the early 1960s.... So if I was at least 2 decades behind repops, then those who started Collecting in the mid 70s,80s,90s etc.... are way behind.......

I am beginning to resent K1000's suggestion that I have not "been around" in this hobby. Just because I haven't been on this site until recently or attended any of the gas bash rendezvous is not an indication of how long I've been collecting. I'm pretty confident it is longer than K1000. And that doesn't mean I don't have some experience in detecting fakes. I'm really not that interested in the opinion of one who touts that he knows his "****" if for no other reason than he chooses to uses language like that to establish his credentials.As for when repops began:I don't actually recall seeing any gas and oil reproductions until the very early 80s, maybe the very late 70s. That's when the globe inserts started coming out as well as a few porcelain signs.I don't know what kind of Korean or Japanese repops you are talking about, Mr. Richards, but I doubt they were pump plates, globes or even gas and oil items. And you win the prize for being the oldest collector. I've only been at it since 1968.

Steve, no way I can convince you, nor can anyone else.... You could see photos, even hold items in your hands and you wouldn't even then believe it.... As you said, the earliest repop you have knowledge of was from the late 70s, early 80s.... So since you didn't have the knowledge to know about them, they couldn't/didn't exist?......

I'm sure there are a lot of experienced and new Collectors alike laughing as they read your comments!

This will be "tongue in cheek", so I hope you understand my sarcasm: If you have/had no personal knowledge of certain Oil Companies, Globes, signage, pumps, smalls.... etc. They never existed, either?