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How tramadol withdrawals compare to withdrawals from typical opiates/opioids.

Recently people have been posting about the specific difficulties of tramadol withdrawals. I have no experience of tramadol, so decided to start this thread for people to provide information to the DF community. When I posted that the received wisdom is that tramadol is not particularly addictive and that withdrawals are relatively mild, I was barraged by so much personal experience to the contrary, I thought I'd start this thread to see if we could arrive at a consensus. The more technically minded might want to add relevant scientific papers on this to the file archive and link them from here [you know who you are! Electrolingus, Gradient, Jatelka et. al.!]

I gather that the withdrawal from tramadol contains an SSRI-type withdrawal, with "head zaps", low serotonin levels etc alongside an opiate-type withdrawal. I'd be curious if a tramadol withdrawal is equivalent to a w.d. from opiates and SSRIs at the same time. If so could one start an SSRI withdraw from the tramadol and then withdraw from the SSRI, and reduce the tramadol withdrawal to a more typical opiate w.d.?

Any withdrawal tips specific to tramadol would also be a helpful addition to the R&A forum.

Dickon

Post Quality Evaluations:

brilliant subject that needs to be documented on here in the one thread. great idea dickon.

Re: How tramadol withdrawals compare to withdrawals from typical opiates/opioids.

Swim just stopped taking Tramadol 5 days ago after becoming very scared about what it was doing to his brain and body. He thankfully took his time and gradually cut down to nothing over three weeks. Swim felt like stopping all at once because he couldn't wait to get it out of his system, but after reading the post above he's very thankful he didn't.

During the three weeks he was cutting down swim noticed mini-seizures that got stronger the less he took. By the time he stopped taking it altogether they were very intense and a few times he thought he might black out or lose control.

For the last five days, since stopping taking Tramadol, they have been getting weaker and less frequent but they are still happening. Hopefully they will stop altogether, he will report further in this thread if and when he feels back to normal again.

It's swims understanding that Tramadol has a double action, at the opioid receptors and on the serotonin system. Swim found the withdrawal from the opiate side of it less severe than with natural opiates. But, the withdrawal from (what swim believes is) the serotonin side was far more severe than any other withdrawal he has ever felt in his life. In fact he can't think of anything that has ever made him feel so bad or scared him more.

He can't report how long the withdrawal from the opiate side of Tramadol goes on for, even though this was not that painful, he made the decision to get back on natural opiates as soon as possible, the double withdrawal effect being too much for swim. Once his brain gets back to normal he will deal with the opiate addiction, he promises. :?

Swim is really confused as to how his doctor(s) could have been so clueless about all this, he asked them specifically if Tramadol has any major side effects or if he will have any problems coming off it and got the impression it was very safe and preferable to using natural opiates.

The long and short of it is, never again for swim.

Swim has a few tips though for easing the withdrawal from Tramadol. These brain zap/seizure things didn't happen as much after he eat a big steak, there must be something in the meat? Also exercise helps a lot, for any type of WD, so he's found.

Re: How tramadol withdrawals compare to withdrawals from typical opiates/opioids.

curious to know whether the brain zaps/mini seizures are actually doing any sort of brain damage. surely by now tramadol withdrawal is being recognized and researched by doctors, and patients evaluated... if not, then now would be a great time to start.

Swim has a few tips though for easing the withdrawal from Tramadol.
These brain zap/seizure things didn't happen as much after he eat a big steak,
there must be something in the meat?

Quote:

[h2]5HTP and Serotonin[/h2]
5-HTP is one of the most important intermediate metabolites in the body, and proves to be as important as the neurotransmitter serotonin.
The body does not produce 5-HTP. It produces 5-HTP from the amino acid tryptophan which is present in most meat and protein sources.
5-HTP is then converted to serotonin for proper brain and neural function.

Re: How tramadol withdrawals compare to withdrawals from typical opiates/opioids.

swim has never had withdrawal from typical opiates, but has done pretty strong opiates such as hydromorphone..... the point is, swim has never been addicted to opiates, but after his first experience with tramadol, a whole new path of addiction began.... swim started taking strong opiates when he was around 11 years old, opiates like hydromorphone and fentanyl, but never found them to be anywhere near addictive as tramadol..... although strong opiates would get swim a lot more high than tramadol, tramadol just seemed to have the effect bringing swim back for more and more..... well over the past few years, swim has had 2 seizures that he knows about from tramadol, but thinks he probably has had well over 500 seizures.... the only reason swim knows about 2 of them, is because he was with someone during the 2, but during his tramadol addiction, he hardly made any contact with anyone, and would wake up all the time in a lot of pain, kind of like after having a seizure..... swim is 19 years old and has been addicted to tramadol since he was 12..... it has even lead up to the point where he cant stop taking it or he will have a seizure, but if he takes to much he has a seizure...... swim would rather die than face the pain he goes through everyday from tramadol, and he has tried many substitutes including heroin, cocaine, ecstasy, alcohol, and the list goes on..... things have finally been getting better for swim though, although he still uses at the very least 400mg a day..... im not putting tramadol down at all, because it is a very helpful drug, but it has took control of swims life and soul, and now all he can do is pray for the best everytime he tries to stop for good..... swim tried to completely stop yesterday, and had a seizure about 10 hours ago..... i dont know if swim will ever ecsape the curse of tramadol addiction

Re: How tramadol withdrawals compare to withdrawals from typical opiates/opioids.

Taper very slowly, even if it takes a year, don't risk seizures. Swim felt like he was walking a tightrope coming off Tram, he couldn't wait to get it out of his system, but instictively knew if he stopped too fast it would be very bad, like maybe even death.

He did it over 3 weeks, and about 2 weeks later he was 90% back to normal, it took a few months to feel 100% again, swim had only been taking it 3 months as well. It's a vicious bitch, swim doesn't know how they can justify using it, he has to assume the medical establishment is so corrupt they will use anything that can be patented in order to profiteer. Go slowly.

AW: How tramadol withdrawals compare to withdrawals from typical opiates/opioids.

@ Someone111,

i hope Swiny is in a medical Treatment?
Swiny have to talk about this with People who knows his Syndrome and the Reasons why swiny have Pain.
There are of course some Medicine that stop`s Seizures but this need knowledge about this Topic.

Re: How tramadol withdrawals compare to withdrawals from typical opiates/opioids.

SWIM's friend went to his Dr 11 yrs ago & was prescribed Tramadol & told that they were not addictive, but this new wonder drug on the market for pain, SWIM's mate had sciatica..

11yrs on & about 2 mnths ago SWIM's pal is now on 150mg tabs of trams, and taking aboutr 5-6 of them a day,(it could be more as that's what he's telling SWIM), his Dr decided to tell him he was now 'morphine dependent' through trams.

As they are an opiod and not an opiate SWIM has told him that that is a lot of shite, however he seems to think not. SWIM thinks it is close but no cigar on the long term withdrawal front from trams v H or Methadone, however could well be wrong.

As SWIM has came off heavier opiates several times, and still has the odd relapse, he sometimes uses Tramadol for a few days whilst helping with his H rattle.

Tramadol seems to help & SWIM can stop them no problem, but he does know that a week of them is nothing compared to a few yrs, so cannot comment fully on how bad the actual withdrawals are after long, long term use.

It does seem that a lot of bad advice was given out when Tramadol initially came on the market.

Re: How tramadol withdrawals compare to withdrawals from typical opiates/opioids.

Sparkles would have agreed with Highland Habits pal not so long ago, but she's found that any drug that is opiate like can be as tough to quit as heroin and methadone, and the relatively undocumented/unknown W/D effects make it far more dangerous than either of those drugs.
Similar to benzo's really. It wasn't until 10-15 years ago that people began realising how fuckin' truly dangerous they were, not until they tried to stop, then it was too late, they were already addicted.
Sparkles knows addicts that have been trying to quit Trams and benzo's for years, (separately of course) most having been prescribed them to help with physical problems (pain, anxiety) when they quit heroin or methadone.
Doctors used to see Tramadol as a low risk alternative for ex addicts, Sparkles was even prescribed it when she was in rehab (she had a broken finger). They wouldn't allow people to take pills for extreme period pain but allowed Sparkles to take trams...ironic or what?
Take care.
Sparkles.

Just wanna agree with Spucky, the poster with pain needs to see a doc soon, seizures can kill, they need to be controlled.

AW: How tramadol withdrawals compare to withdrawals from typical opiates/opioids.

I am very surprised to read here about seizure because of a WD.,
i mean it can be happen and have to be avoid but in the whole Database it`s very difficult to find something about "seizure in a WD."?

I read that mirtazapine and clonidine are recommended for a slow WD.
I guess that mirtazapine can help a lot to get back a normal Serotonin-level,
also it`s a nice chemical supporter that prevent seizures!

Re: How tramadol withdrawals compare to withdrawals from typical opiates/opioids.

SWIM has used Tramadol in the past. For SWIM, it has worked pretty much the same as hydrocodone except it doesn't have the mellow feeling. Some swimmers might be expecting more from the drug and think that it's not working as well as an opiate based drug. Never had the liquid and never encountered the "head zaps". It would be interesting to see what form of the Tramadol was taken when the "head zaps" occurred.

Tramadol to SWIM seemed to make tapering easier if one was taking hydrocodone for example and wanted to stop. But, it wasn't the best medicine to be prescribed if one had legit medical pain

Re: How tramadol withdrawals compare to withdrawals from typical opiates/opioids.

SWIMS last relapse with heroin back in November started with 200mg of tramadol, lesson learned. He also had stomach pains while using it even though he took anti sickness tablets.

His mum was on it for 20+ years and while in hospital the doctors stopped giving it to her to try and diagnose her condition, she started to really freak out about the lose of tramadol even though she was on 25 other medications including oxy and fentyal. She was dieing so SWIM brought some tramadol to the hospital and put it in her drink, she was well pleased but SWIM was shocked at the power this drug had over her and after reading the above posts warning not to stop it abruptly, he is happy he did what he did.

Re: How tramadol withdrawals compare to withdrawals from typical opiates/opioids.

Sparkles aunt was prescribed Trams for pain, she came round yesterday to ask if they were OK to take. Sparkles told her about how addictive they were and the side effects when stopping. She went back to her doctor and was prescribed an alternative. Apparently her GP was unaware of them.

Sib.
The way health professionals treat patients with terminal illness really fucks Sparkles off, she's sorry Sibs mum suffered like that, but it's not rare, apparently. Sparkles is determined she'll never get to that stage, she's gonna keep control of her pain relief, when it gets too painful she'll deal with it herself. She'll never let her kids see her ravaged by unbearable pain.
Take care.
Sparkles.

Re: How tramadol withdrawals compare to withdrawals from typical opiates/opioids.

Swim’s glad he read this thread as swim took tramadol for the last 10 days – a considerably small dose 50 mg a day but will be stopping them tomorrow . Any swimmers out there that can advise – should swim taper from his dose or stop them immediately – I had no idea that trams can cause such bad withdrawal effects as the high is not particularly that good either.

Re: How tramadol withdrawals compare to withdrawals from typical opiates/opioids.

Swim didn't read any of the posts in this thread because its late and he is tired, but he stumbled upon this thread and would like to comment on his recent experience with tramadol withdrawals.

Swim has experienced moderate withdrawals from oxycontin and methadone on multiple occasions (though it is hard for swim to imagine what severe opiate withdrawal would be like because swim litterally felt like he wanted to die when withdrawing from oxycontin, fentanyl and methadone (seperate occasions), the most recent episode having been quitting methadone cold turkey after taking 70mg daily for almost a year). This was the worst withdrawal Swim has ever experience mainly because he spent over a month feeling extreme dysphoria and fatigue day in and day out. Then one day swim discovered a bottle of tramadol in the medicine cabinet and took an approx. 300mg a day for several days. Swim was amazed at how tramadol made his withdrawal symptoms vanish into thin air. Unfortunately, Swim did not know that tramadol could also cause w/d. Upon stopping use abruptly after 7 days he felt pretty bad again, and this was about 7 weeks after quitting methadone so swim could chalk it up mostly to tramadol w/d.

If swim were to compare the withdrawal he felt from tramadol with the withdrawal he experienced from methadone, the tramadol withdrawals were like going to disneyland compared to the 7 week methadone withdrawal marathon. Swim knows that his length of dependence on methadone is one factor that contributed to the severity of the withdrawals (along with quitting cold turkey, and the long half life of the drug). Swim also thinks that tramadol withdrawals could be pretty painful to someone who had never felt the bite of strong opiate w/d's and been more dependent on tramadol than swim was, but he feels the 3 days of gray from tramadol cessation were a big joke after seeing the dark side of stronger opiates/opioids.

Re: How tramadol withdrawals compare to withdrawals from typical opiates/opioids.

I have been dealing with chronic nerve pain on the right side of my head for two years. Post herpetic neuralgia from shingles. Pain comes from my trigeminal nerve. I've tried several non narcotic drugs along the way as we try and treat this very Haredim to treat pain. I have resorted to hydrocone off and on in the last 2 years. Several years ago I had neck surgery and was on high doses of hydro. I quit cold turkey and suffered withdrawls. Once I got past 3 days of agony, it was two weeks before back to normal and I felt better each day. In August of this year my head pain got out of control and I got on hydro. I took it for 2 months. On Oct 10 I began a 3 week taper. I went thru unholy he'll and on the 3rd week, down to the last taper, I broke. I went mad and asked for help. My pain specialist suggested a Tramadol taper. Did that for 3 days along with Ativan to help me sleep. I slept for 3 days and was done with the hydro! But.....I stayed on Tramadol for 2-1/2 weeks as I tried to managed the residual hydro wd's. I tapered from Tramadol pretty quick and 12 hrs after my last dose, the Tramadol wd's set in. At first it was similar to opiate wd but I felt much more body ache and much more restlessness and insomnia. It's been about 33 days from that last dose and I have not gotten better each day, I have gotten better each WEEK. For me this has been a much slower recovery than from that of opiates. I'm having more good days now but still getting random hard hits of post acute wd's .

IMHO Tramadol should be banned from the universe and if there are multiple universes, it should be banned from them too!!!

Re: How tramadol withdrawals compare to withdrawals from typical opiates/opioids.

As usual there are plenty of experiences to draw from in the forum. When my pet rock was doing it hard on big doses of morphine from his GP, he told the GP he'd heard about tramadol and would that help? The doc reduced the morphine by 60mg and substituted trammies for the rest with a view to eventually weaning off morphine and onto trammies while still tapering off everything. Big fucking mistake and I'm pissed at my pet rock for even mentioning it to the doc. Tramadol initially completely removed withdrawal symptoms from my pet rock's rather ambitious and sharp taper regime and allowed him to sleep and function, though as everyone with 20/20 hindsight will know, as an opiate it simply replaced one for the other. Like all synthetics, it doesn't work as well as the real thing and takes much longer to get out of the system, making withdrawals unpleasant. It is bullshit that it is not addictive and the people who originally made it were hauled over the health department coals for minimising the results of tests when they were trying to get the stuff accredited (Wikipedia explains all this in detail for those interested). That article also contains information stating that Tramadol should NOT be used as a substitute by those trying to get off natural opiate-based drugs. My pet rock saw that before talking to the doctor but being an addict, thought he was different/special and that would not apply to him. What a cock.

While the trammie withdrawals my pet rock experienced were not overly powerful compared to his lack-of-morphine sickness, maybe because he was still on a high morphine dose at the time, he could tell through the haze they were very unpleasant, with zaps and zings and other brain fades coming every time my pet rock moved his head or even looked with his eyes only; all very disconcerting when talking to people, driving or trying to sleep. Physically the symptoms were just like coming off any other opiate, with the symptoms on top of the "mental" ones as well. My pet rock asked (well, begged) the doc to reduce the trammies first and leave the morphine alone but even that didn't mask the trammie withdrawal, so that's a lesson learned right there.

My pet rock has come to the conclusion that anything that reduces withdrawals to that kind of level has to be bad enough itself to avoid anyway. Trying to fill the hole opiates leave with booze, benzos or anything else just ends up making things worse and for opiate withdrawal, nothing beats a rigid taper or if on a low enough dose, complete cessation to get clean as quickly as possible. Addicts are usually so obsessed with fixing whatever is broken within them from a bottle or a syringe that so many urban legends are born and misinformation spread. As my pet rock has read in this forum, some swear by one method but that fails miserably with someone else. Cleaning up is such a unique process for most people and while there is a lot of commonality between those of us who have experienced it, we each have to go down the road that we instinctively know is best for us. If that means MMT for life then that's what it means, however in my pet rock's case, taking nothing at all is the answer and while he may be really fucked off he can't use, he is slowly coming to realise that once he is totally free of the physical chains of using, he will once again be able to lead a happy and productive life.

Tramadol is not the answer to those looking to quit opiates; that much is clear. It says so on the packet and everyone here confirms it so thanks Dickon for starting the thread and allowing people to share experiences.

Re: How tramadol withdrawals compare to withdrawals from typical opiates/opioids.

Just a little disclaimer here in regards to my post as this was a discussion that occurred several months back with professionals from all over the healthcare and social services field at a meeting called an Ethics Committee (whereby Hospitals, Long-Term-Care settings of all types, Clinics, Adult and Children Protection Services, etc… gather and discuss specific cases to help establish procedures for handling those cases in consideration of patient/resident/client rights, laws, etc…) From my notes on the meeting:

The discussion of Tramadol or Ultram was brought to the table in regards to long-term pain management as two neurologists were concerned that this medication was extremely reactive to other narcotics and muscle relaxers as well as many psychotropic medications with the reaction being seizures WHILE taking the medication and not just from withdraws. From one other doctor, a general practitioner, was mention that Tramadol seemed to also exhibit increased seizure activity in those who had a history of seizures, both themselves or a family history. As the discussion progressed the general consensus was that this was all more prevalent in the developmentally disabled population as well as a possibility (mind you it was only mentioned as an observation) of those with Bipolar disorders. Suddenly stopping the medication in these groups lead to an increase in seizure activity for a period of time; there was no real mention of duration or dosages of the medication.

Another attendant of the meeting, either a nurse practitioner or a doctor, stated that even without a history of seizures and no other medications present did they notice that seizures had occurred while their patient had taken Tramadol, however, they were not sure or not aware if the patient had any bipolar diagnosis or anything of the like. There was no follow-up on this particular mention as to whether or not there were seizures after the doctor had withdrawn the medication.

What I walked away with from this meeting is that there is a risk of seizures both during and after taking this medication. As that was what my fellow co-workers came away with, too, we encouraged our clients and their families to discuss this potential with their PCP/GP’s and to see if another long-term pain medication would be better.

Re: How tramadol withdrawals compare to withdrawals from typical opiates/opioids.

Tramadol is a horrid painkiller imo its more like a anti depressant than a pain killer i was dependant on 10 50mg capsues a day and adter a dose increase to 14 a day i started feeling weird like i was going to have big seizure had a grad mal one in prison so i knew what it was spok to my dr about it they was stopped instantly and i was changed to codiene. Evil stuff stay away from this crap. Its probably ok in people who take low doses or dont have a history of fits but otherwise at high doses its probably more toxic than pethidine . Nasty shit.

Re: How tramadol withdrawals compare to withdrawals from typical opiates/opioids.

Quote:

Originally Posted by JunkyardAngel

IMHO Tramadol should be banned from the universe and if there are multiple universes, it should be banned from them too!!!

Never again

i totally agree..there evil little fuckers, and so are the doctors who prescribe them.

i got suckered back in 2006 when i hurt my back at work.
had to go see the company doctor, got some scans done and there was a slight bulge at L5.
he said no probs, take it easy for little while, do some physiotherapy, and heres a script for tramal..
i said thats not like oxy or morphine..any of that addtictive shit is it?...."No its a non-narcotic, you'll be fine."i'd never heard of them before, so off i went...hurt my back even more about a week in, because of the tramadol and its lovely dissociative and "everything is ok" effect. that was when i checked them out online. which is odd, because normally i would have done it before i took the first one..of course after the first, i had no worries and off i went.
company doctor wouldn't prescribe anything else, reckoned it was the greatest shit ever and i had nothing to worry about..no other doctor would touch my back because it was workers comp. i figured i'd just have to make do...but i totally underestimated just how bad they were

then i went fucked the next 7 years up, at my peak i was hitting 2000mg..was having blackouts where i'd leave my home and wake up in weird places or i'd do shit like trash the house and myself.
i'd always wake right before i had thrown myself into something, like in mid air..was really fucked up. mind you, i was pretty fucked at that time too
11 months clean now, still not right in the head tho. i always expected damage was caused along the way.

i watched a friend come of oxycodone, i can't remember how much, but it was bloody high cause he'd been using for years.
to be honest, seeing what he went thru and from what he told me and going thru what i went thru..he got off light..i really don't think they compare once you add in the SSRI bonus round that just make you want to eat a gun everyday. he was still messed up but he was kind of a "functioning messed up" after the first few weeks.

Re: How tramadol withdrawals compare to withdrawals from typical opiates/opioids.

Dickon I have gone cold turkey twice from about 750mg Tramadol a day the first time and 1100mg a day the second time. It really was hell for me both times. I sweat in the bed so much all the sheets were soaked and I had a horrible headache. My mouth had all this gross powder tasting stuff in it. Anyway I never stayed off of it longer than a 2 week period. I have come off of a real high Vicodin and oxycodone addiction and in my opinion this tramadol stuff is similar but way worse than oxycodone, vicodin. I would not ever do it again. I felt like I was dying. I thought for a while I may have a heart attack. Weaning down is the only safe way to me now. Just wanted to throw my 2 cents in.