Because Catholics love relics of the saints (and JPII is going to be a saint once the requisite process plays out).

I mean, this isn't even all that macabre as far as Catholic tradition goes. There's severed heads of saints, bones of saints, and even entire preserved corpses of various saints all over the place (although a lot of the older ones are medieval forgeries).

If you do a search for "Incorruptible" and "Saint", you'll probably get a bunch of pictures of entire preserved mummies. The Incorruptibles are said to be saints who are so pure that their corpses remain warm to the touch, free of rigor and appear to be still alive though the bodies are dead.

Of course, what the Catholics did was hang onto the corpses for 300 years and they just look like a mummified body.

RexTalionis:Because Catholics love relics of the saints (and JPII is going to be a saint once the requisite process plays out).

I mean, this isn't even all that macabre as far as Catholic tradition goes. There's severed heads of saints, bones of saints, and even entire preserved corpses of various saints all over the place (although a lot of the older ones are medieval forgeries).

RexTalionis:Because Catholics love relics of the saints (and JPII is going to be a saint once the requisite process plays out).

I mean, this isn't even all that macabre as far as Catholic tradition goes. There's severed heads of saints, bones of saints, and even entire preserved corpses of various saints all over the place (although a lot of the older ones are medieval forgeries).

But they get so bent out of shape over plastinated bodies displayed for educational purposes.

Lumpmoose:Despite suppressing pagans for so many centuries, Catholics sure have some macabre tendencies.

Read "The Origin of Satan", by Elaine Pagels, among others like "Pagans and Christians", by the excellent Robin Lane Fox, or Ramsey MacMullan's "Christianity and Paganism in the Fourth to Eighth Centuries".

You'll learn all you need...or care...to know about how Christianity was a splinter Jewish sect that dropped or suppressed much of the specifically Hebraic playbook in order to appeal to the average Pagan in the greater Roman world. In doing so, it eventually went from persecuted minority to state religion in about 300 years. As a state religion, it deliberately took on the ranks of the Roman civic religion and adopted many of its notions, titles, holidays, and so on, because, like Scientology, it was all about keeping your newly acquired star donators happy.

Protestantism was a reaction against the known pagan tendencies (and the perceived corruption stemming from thereby) of the medieval/early modern Catholic hierarchy. Of course, evangelical leaders are now as known for gross materialism and ripping off the flock at least as much as any Renaissance Pope, so I have to blame the corrupting influence of religion itself. Bits of dead saints are perversions of the "idolatry" that Christianity supposedly despises, and are really no different from a "Goddess candle" or a plastic Thor on the dresser.

Notably, the extreme religious pluralism of the Roman Empire (pay taxes, light a candle or kill a chicken in the name of the deified Emperors, but otherwise dance with snakes or pray to Baal/Isis/Hera/Cernunnos, whatever) did not allow the concentration of funds or social power that centralized, bureaucratic, Roman Christianity did. Before the rise of the monotheisms, nobody had the sole franchise, and so nobody claimed their gods were very, very big or particularly effective in distant lands.

It took a mutated pair of once-Jewish faiths, Christianity and Islam, to pull that off.

Pathman:[24.media.tumblr.com image 500x281]because he was the chosen one?

God, that show. I remember in the first season Alan Ball said that Bubba wouldn't be on True Blood because an Elvis wannabe vampire named Bubba would be too cartoon-y for the show he was trying to go far. Fast forward to Sunday's season finale and we have fairy vagina light. Again, fairy vagina light. Yep, not cartoon-y at all.

The Catholic Church in Europe is very different than the Catholic Church in America. The European church still has very close ties to the pagan clans it converted centuries ago. In fact, learning the history of the Church in Europe is an excellent way to understand the dynamics of 1500 years of Western culture and science.

The Catholic Church in Europe is very different than the Catholic Church in America. The European church still has very close ties to the pagan clans it converted centuries ago. In fact, learning the history of the Church in Europe is an excellent way to understand the dynamics of 1500 years of Western culture and science.

This. Also, you don't mix Roman Authoritarianism and monotheist religions, that only brings... The Modern Catholic Church.

Lumpmoose:Despite suppressing pagans for so many centuries, Catholics sure have some macabre tendencies.

Completely Christian tendencies too! ...That Evangelicals and some Protestants have wandered away from, toward paganism. (Naturalism is closer to paganism than any theology of transubstantiation or hagiography will ever be).

mekki:Pathman: [24.media.tumblr.com image 500x281]because he was the chosen one?

God, that show. I remember in the first season Alan Ball said that Bubba wouldn't be on True Blood because an Elvis wannabe vampire named Bubba would be too cartoon-y for the show he was trying to go far. Fast forward to Sunday's season finale and we have fairy vagina light. Again, fairy vagina light. Yep, not cartoon-y at all.

yeah.. the show blows. truly terrible - and i hate myself for watching it.alan ball...the guy who brought us six feet under...

Is it any odder than someone else carrying a locket of some beloved one's hair around? Or a parent keeping their kid's first fallen out baby tooth?

yes. yes it is.

How so?

I'll take a stab at it. As someone pointed out as well, those things are pretty odd as well. But this is even odder in my mind as at least a babies tooth, or a locket of a beloved person's hair has some connection with you. That's your baby, or that's your deceased wife, or whathaveyou. This is some guy you likely never met, who people have always told you was better than you, and he told you how to live your life. He's not related to you, he's not your friend, he's not your loved one, why would you want to see, touch, or have, his blood?

CygnusDarius:Also, you don't mix Roman Authoritarianism and monotheist religions, that only brings... The Modern Catholic Church.

If anything, the Mormon church is following the old Catholic model from Europe on how to takeover government. The problem they face in America is that you can't pay armies to wipe out the heathens anymore. The Baptist churches have the best shot of it, but their organization is fatally flawed because deep down inside they hate everyone that isn't a member of their own congregation.

Is it any odder than someone else carrying a locket of some beloved one's hair around? Or a parent keeping their kid's first fallen out baby tooth?

yes. yes it is.

How so?

Well - i don't do either of those things so i suppose i can't speak. but based on the baseline definition of what odd means i would have to answer because i imagine far less people are going to carry around a vial of blood than a lock of hair?

RexTalionis:Because Catholics love relics of the saints (and JPII is going to be a saint once the requisite process plays out).

I mean, this isn't even all that macabre as far as Catholic tradition goes. There's severed heads of saints, bones of saints, and even entire preserved corpses of various saints all over the place (although a lot of the older ones are medieval forgeries).

I figure he was hedging his bets on beatification.

We used to do a lot of church reno work and one priest was very happy to talk to us about the whole beatification process, as well as the church's fascination with relics. He even showed us the finger bone of his church's patron saint that was in the altar stone. He also talked about how they would likely freeze dry Mother Teresa's liver after she died and slice it up for relics....

Then there's Jeremy Bentham, whose headless corpse is revered at the University College London.

He had something for every Farker, lib and con, atheist and religious:

"Bentham became a leading theorist in Anglo-American philosophy of law, and a political radical whose ideas influenced the development of welfarism. He advocated individual and economic freedom, usury, the separation of church and state, freedom of expression, equal rights for women, the right to divorce, and the decriminalising of homosexual acts.[1] He called for the abolition of slavery and the death penalty, and for the abolition of physical punishment, including that of children.[2] Though strongly in favour of the extension of individual legal rights, he opposed the idea of natural law and natural rights, calling them "nonsense upon stilts".[3]"

RexTalionis:If you do a search for "Incorruptible" and "Saint", you'll probably get a bunch of pictures of entire preserved mummies. The Incorruptibles are said to be saints who are so pure that their corpses remain warm to the touch, free of rigor and appear to be still alive though the bodies are dead.

Of course, what the Catholics did was hang onto the corpses for 300 years and they just look like a mummified body.

Saw a few of them on my trip to Italy way back when. Catacombs everywhere, everywhere! Weird feeling.