I cannot contain my outrage any longer. I am deeply offended by this post and all its ramifications. This is a clear insult to all gender-conflicted and alternative lifestyle people in the world. Or at least the wine world. Or at least this board.

Where are the slots for transgender people? Don't they get a vote? Don't they have a say in this? Why are we ignoring them as if they don't exist?

What if you're confused or conflicted about your sexual orientation? Shouldn't there, at the very least, be an "I'm not quite sure" or a "I'm a woman trapped in a man's body" or "I can't afford the surgery but I know I'm a woman whether I have a prominent Adam's Apple and excess body hair and a really deep voice or not."

And let's not forget the bi-sexuals either!!! Sure, they're not so much conflicted as they are interested in getting action from both sides (and maybe at the same time!). I mean, that's hot! Just think about... oh, sorry, got a little off track there.

steve.slatcher wrote:Flies, and doubtless a lot worse, get into the wine even before fermentation. I read that there have been vine infestations so bad that the bugs actually affected the flavour of the finished product. So I see no logic in a 5 or 10 second rule.

Is there a statistician in the house? My stats are a bit rusty now, but from a quick eyeballing of the poll results I'd say there are no significant gender differences.

If you ever had the distinct pleasure of tasting Ontario wines from a few vintages back, during the famous Ladybug infestation, you'd definitely sense the presence of bugs in wine. Every time we'd come across one in competitions it was immediately known---smelled exactly like peanut butter, oddly enough. Not nuanced, mind you, or a mere whiff, but like sticking your nose down into a jar of Jif.

Yep, from first hand experience I can tell you it's amazing sometimes how much insect and animal matter manages to find it's way into the old fermentation vat. Flying and crawling insects, arachnoids of varied types, snakes, field critters, birds...like making sausages: people usually don't want to know.

Bob Ross wrote:Oh, Hoke, Robin covered all of your points, and in his usual diplomatic manner:

"Other/Can't answer as stated (discuss)"

[He might have sensitized the "(discuss)" with an additional modifier, e.g. "(discuss (if you choose to do so))", but all PC strictures have been honored here.]

Regards, Bob

Sorry, Bob. No defense. I think Robin was being prurient here...fishing for details, asking for disclosure, looking for lurid details of private lives. What, you get to vote only if you tell us the icky details??? Whatever happened to "Don't Ask; Don't Tell"??? Maybe Robin isn't the sensitive, caring liberal bleeding heart we all thought he was? Maybe he's really a thinly disguised right wing hate-spewing radio talk show host?

Oh, I have to laugh at myself on this one--because I am usually about as picky as they come; my mother instilled great fear of "germs" in me at a young age. But the honest answer to this particular question is yes--I would, and in fact have, shared my wine with small critters. Good wine is too precious to dump out! However, to date I've only had gnats and fruit flies land in my glass, and I do pick them out. I'm not absolutely certain I'd be as easy-going if it were a housefly or a cockroach (I grew up in Hawaii, and roaches there are HUGE!), but I suspect I might still go with the fishing out approach. And I think, as others said, the actual wine itself would make a difference--I'd be quicker to dump out a glass of a $3.00 bottle of something someone picked up at Trader Joe's as opposed to a precious single vineyard Oregon Pinot Noir or a tasty Turley Zinfandel. And, yes, I think this question did flush a few of us out of the woodwork (no termite pun intended)--I've been subscribing for years.

Hoke wrote:I cannot contain my outrage any longer. I am deeply offended by this post and all its ramifications. This is a clear insult to all gender-conflicted and alternative lifestyle people in the world. Or at least the wine world. Or at least this board.

Where are the slots for transgender people? Don't they get a vote? Don't they have a say in this? Why are we ignoring them as if they don't exist?

What if you're confused or conflicted about your sexual orientation? Shouldn't there, at the very least, be an "I'm not quite sure" or a "I'm a woman trapped in a man's body" or "I can't afford the surgery but I know I'm a woman whether I have a prominent Adam's Apple and excess body hair and a really deep voice or not."

And let's not forget the bi-sexuals either!!! Sure, they're not so much conflicted as they are interested in getting action from both sides (and maybe at the same time!). I mean, that's hot! Just think about... oh, sorry, got a little off track there.

Anyway, you get my point. Where's the outrage?

That's all well and good, but I don't hear anyone putting the insect's view on the subject. I can only take this as an obvious and callous act of prejudice and one the forum should be ashamed of

I recently cursed at gnat that landed in my wine glass - flicked it out and kept on sipping. I think anything bigger I would not have continued drinking, especially a fly or a roach - way too gross for me!

Caught a little of funny home videos before switching stations and they showed a racoon drunk on fermented berries staggering around. My sister used to have a chokecherry tree and certain birds would get drunk on the chokecherries.

Hoke wrote:I cannot contain my outrage any longer. I am deeply offended by this post and all its ramifications. This is a clear insult to all gender-conflicted and alternative lifestyle people in the world. Or at least the wine world. Or at least this board.

Where are the slots for transgender people? Don't they get a vote? Don't they have a say in this? Why are we ignoring them as if they don't exist?

What if you're confused or conflicted about your sexual orientation? Shouldn't there, at the very least, be an "I'm not quite sure" or a "I'm a woman trapped in a man's body" or "I can't afford the surgery but I know I'm a woman whether I have a prominent Adam's Apple and excess body hair and a really deep voice or not."

And let's not forget the bi-sexuals either!!! Sure, they're not so much conflicted as they are interested in getting action from both sides (and maybe at the same time!). I mean, that's hot! Just think about... oh, sorry, got a little off track there.

Anyway, you get my point. Where's the outrage?

I am outraged that you didn't mention the all-important hermaphrodite contingent of WLDG. How could you not think of them, you unfeeling brute? Go sit in the corner until you're properly contrite.

Hoke wrote:I cannot contain my outrage any longer. I am deeply offended by this post and all its ramifications. This is a clear insult to all gender-conflicted and alternative lifestyle people in the world. Or at least the wine world. Or at least this board.

Where are the slots for transgender people? Don't they get a vote? Don't they have a say in this? Why are we ignoring them as if they don't exist?

What if you're confused or conflicted about your sexual orientation? Shouldn't there, at the very least, be an "I'm not quite sure" or a "I'm a woman trapped in a man's body" or "I can't afford the surgery but I know I'm a woman whether I have a prominent Adam's Apple and excess body hair and a really deep voice or not."

And let's not forget the bi-sexuals either!!! Sure, they're not so much conflicted as they are interested in getting action from both sides (and maybe at the same time!). I mean, that's hot! Just think about... oh, sorry, got a little off track there.

Anyway, you get my point. Where's the outrage?

I am outraged that you didn't mention the all-important hermaphrodite contingent of WLDG. How could you not think of them, you unfeeling brute? Go sit in the corner until you're properly contrite.

Mark Lipton

Sorry, I just thought the hermaphrodites were neither here nor there, Mark. Or maybe a hermaphrodite is in his/her own self sufficient little world?

There's only so much sensitivity a guy can show at one time, you know. Now go back to your ivy coverd ivory-tower, Prof!

I thought you were putting us on Bob with a play on the title word until I looked up the entry on amazon.com. In fact, I had "Middlesex" mixed up with the George Eliot novel "Middlemarch." (One of Eliot's novels I haven't read.)