For today’s edition of Dear Mark, I’ve got a four-parter for you. First, I address the popular new supplement being touted as a powerful fat-burner: garcinia cambogia. Does it measure up to the hype? Next, I discuss the effects of ultra pasteurization on the proteins, vitamins, and health effects of milk. Is ultra pasteurization a dangerous practice, or does it just produce milk that is less than optimal? After that, I explore the question of what to do when you’ve seemingly achieved your initial health goals but still want more. Do you keep tweaking things to make them even better, or do you make the attempt to be content? And finally, I tell a reader how much walking is actually enough.

Let’s go:

Mark,

I’m seeing a lot of advertisments (facebook recommended ads, pop-up, etc) for Garcinia Cambogia. I tried searching and don’t find that you’ve written anything about it. As a person that tries to follow paleo eating (not perfect) and still carries a few extra pounds (5 feet 10 inches and 188 lbs, some flab) I was wondering if it’d be worth trying either the fruit or supplements. The supplements are made from the rind of the plant and that isn’t something I’m used to eating. Maybe I could juice it.

Your thoughts would be greatly appreciated.

David

Dr. Oz lauded garcinia cambogia on a recent episode of his show. Like all the other supplements he’s touted as incredible fat-burners before it, garcinia camboiga has experienced an explosion of interest. But does it work?

And in 2012, a review of the human evidence concluded that there exists “little evidence” for garcinia cambogia’s weight loss effects.

Unfortunately, as a “fat-burner” or appetite suppressant, garcinia cambogia extract just doesn’t seem very effective in humans. Rats are a different story. If you raise show rats and need a little help slimming down the tubbier ones before competition, garcinia cambogia might help. For everyone else, I’d skip the supplement unless you can try it for free. Cause hey, it might defy the evidence and work for you (just don’t pay for it). At least it’s safe. It may also slightly enhance glycogen synthesis in skeletal muscle after exercise. That’s something, I guess.

That said, I’d definitely eat the (native to Indonesia) fruit if you can get your hands on it. Trying new fruits is always worthwhile, and fruits tend to be pretty healthy, tasty foods with interesting nutritional benefits. There’s no magic bullet out there of which I’m aware. Only healthy foods that contribute (sometimes a huge amount) to an overall healthy way of eating.

I hope like heck you will take on this subject, because there’s way too much rhetorical finesse going on when it comes to the rapidly increasing use of Ultra Pasteurization of milk. Finding articles condemning the process is relatively easy, and if you want justifications for its use (or an “apologist’s” reply), just email any organic dairy and ask for some. I get all that…but you are a source of nutritional expertise, and you’ve appeared to have staked out a rational, non-confrontational territory when it comes to issues like dairy. So I’d love to hear from you – is ultra pasteurization a problem…or isn’t it? And why?

Thanks,

Steve

Just so people know, ultra pasteurization involves exposing milk to 280 ºF temperatures for two seconds. This kills all microbes and makes the milk so shelf-stable that it can sit out, unrefrigerated, for months.

This is a tough one. You’ve got claims that ultra pasteurizing milk “flattens” the proteins, makes them unavailable to our digestive enzymes, and allows them unfettered access in their intact state to our blood stream via our permeable intestinal lining (which the milk may or may not have had something to do with).

The “protein flattening, digestion inhibiting” argument is commonly attributed on a number of websites to Lee Dexter, a goat farmer and microbiologist. While I was unable to find any references in the literature supporting this specific claim, the heating of milk can actually reduce allergenicity of milk proteins in people with milk protein allergy, according to some research. There’s even research suggesting that kids with milk allergy can use baked milk (which they tolerate) to develop widespread tolerance of unheated milk, too. Another study found that ultra high heat treatment of milk made the proteins more digestible, not less – although this is only true for recently treated milk; storage appears to reduce digestibility, and most ultra-pasteurized milk you encounter is “in storage.” These seem to oppose the claims that ultra pasteurized milk is indigestible as a rule, although storage may be problematic (is most milk technically “stored”?).

However, heating milk does alter the proteins and this can definitely have unwanted effects. Raw milk proteins – the whey, specifically – are uniquely stimulatory of glutathione, the body’s master antioxidant. Heating the milk denatures the whey and drastically reduces its stimulation of gluathione secretion, with ultra pasteurization denaturing up to 100% of the beta-lactoglobulin (the whey component responsible for glutathione synthesis). This is probably the likeliest reason for the protective effects of raw milk consumption on asthma and allergies demonstrated in studies. Ultra pasteurization also reduces B12 and thiamine levels in milk. It affects the folate binding protein as well, which could reduce folate bioavailability.

What about all the people who prefer raw milk and report improved digestion and health from consuming it? I’d definitely put myself in that category; on the very rare occasion that I consume milk, I definitely prefer and “feel better” with raw. Are we just imagining things?

A likely explanation is that while many consumers either have no issue digesting denatured, heat-altered milk proteins or don’t notice a difference, many do – and the ones who do have a sensitivity (either from previous health issues or perhaps elevated intestinal permeability) are the ones who notice huge benefits from consuming raw milk and/or avoiding ultra-pasteurized milk. Now, maybe the people without issues simply don’t know any better. Maybe they’ve accepted poor digestion and all the health issues that accompany it as just “part of life.” Maybe if they did switch to raw milk, or even vat pasteurized milk, they’d be converts (I suspect it’s likely). We can’t know for sure, though, especially since the actual evidence is inconclusive.

One more thing: it’s often claimed that ultra pasteurized milk cannot be used to make yogurt. I don’t know what to make of this, seeing as how ultra pasteurized milk is more susceptible to bacterial contamination (with raw milk being far more resilient with its strong arsenal of resident bacteria to oppose incursions). Yogurt is just “contamination” with the right species, so ultra pasteurized milk should work. This guide to yogurt-making seems to agree, and this source suggests that the denatured proteins in ultra pasteurized milk even improve the texture of yogurt.

To sum up as best I can, I don’t see any ironclad evidence that ultra-pasteurization renders milk especially dangerous, and even though I don’t drink the stuff and vastly prefer raw dairy, many of the claims about ultra pasteurization have been greatly exaggerated.

New Year… Not looking for the healthiest weight loss lifestyle…Not looking for ways to incorporate exercise into my daily life . Where does a healthy, fit individual find new ways to keep improving? Most articles geared towards individuals who need help to lose weight and/or to exercise more. Where do others like myself find information to improve an already healthy individual?

Tanya

I’m maybe going to give you the answer you weren’t looking for or expecting, but I think it’s the right one in this case: you don’t.

If you’re healthy and fit enough to have to rack your brain to come up with some way to improve those facets of your life, you’re fast approaching the realm of diminishing returns. In fact, in my experience it’s the folks who get overly bogged down in details and micromanage everything that create problems for themselves. People come to Primal with a laundry list of health issues and, with a standard approach, are able to check most of them off. They lose weight, get off the meds, see their numbers in the gym improve, and are just feeling good overall. They think “Why not feel even better?” and start tweaking things here and changing things there. They dig deep into the health blogs, using most of their free time actively thinking about improving their health.

And yet their health degrades. The new diet tweaks don’t take. Their previously basic but consistent workout routine is replaced by a constantly shifting rotation of exercises they read about on a lifting forum that will only end when they find The One True Lift (which doesn’t exist, of course). Late nights on the Pubmed database reading about the debilitating health effects of sleep deprivation ironically lead to chronic sleep deprivation.

At some point, we have to stop the relentless pursuit of… what? What are we looking for, really? How much healthier can we get? We aren’t corporations whose continued success depends on endless growth to satisfy investors. We’re the investors in our own health. We profit when we’re happy, healthy, and fit. As humans, it’s good enough being good enough.

So don’t go looking for a problem that probably isn’t there. It can get in the way of maintaining your good health and fitness levels, which should be your main goal. If you want to improve, focus on other aspects of your life. Explore your creativity, take up a craft, learn an instrument, travel more, read a book a week, learn a language – that sort of thing. There’s way more to life than just health and fitness (although those are the foundation for everything).

What is considered “enough” walking? I know everyone is different but would like a round number. I try to do 3 miles a day.

Rebecca

It’s tough to pin down hard numbers, since it really depends on multiple factors like size, weight, leg length, fitness level, age, and goals. We have a few rough ideas, though.

Our hunter-gatherer ancestors frequently moved around at a slow pace, as a rule.Studies on extant hunter-gatherers like the Hadza support this, showing that women walk about 6 km/day (3.7 miles/day) and men a bit over 11 km/day (or 6.8 miles/day). Earlier research put the numbers a bit lower but still in the same general realm.

For weight loss, current research indicates that 10,000 steps (0r about 5 miles) a day seems to be best. One study found that a 10,000 step/day target helped obese and overweight adults improve body composition. The average improvement in steps/day was just 4,000 and the mean body fat reduction was 2.7 kg. Those who adhered to the plan and actually got close to 10,000 steps a day had even better results with more fat loss, since the averages also included those participants who got nowhere near the 10,000 step goal.

Getting those steps in becomes even more important for general health as we age. A recent study found that among healthy older people, a two week reduction in daily step count resulted in lower leg mass and a reduced ability for the leg muscles to synthesize protein to build themselves back up. So not only did they lose muscle by walking less, gaining muscle actually became more difficult. Another analysis examined the association of various daily step counts with improvements in areas of health among elderly men and women. Here are their results:

4000-5000 steps/day: Improvements in mental health and indices of depression.

I’d shoot for 10,000 steps, or about 5 miles. Since it’s total steps that seems to matter most, and not just the amount of steps you take throughout your planned walks, you’re probably close to 10,000 steps a day with your “three miles a day” habit plus whatever other steps you take on a given day. But go ahead and take longer walks some days and shorter walks others. Aim for 10,000/5 miles as an average.

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You want comments? We got comments:

Imagine you’re George Clooney. Take a moment to admire your grooming and wit. Okay, now imagine someone walks up to you and asks, “What’s your name?” You say, “I’m George Clooney.” Or maybe you say, “I’m the Clooninator!” You don’t say “I’m George of George Clooney Sells Movies Blog” and you certainly don’t say, “I’m Clooney Weight Loss Plan”. So while spam is technically meat, it ain’t anywhere near Primal. Please nickname yourself something your friends would call you.

I’m not likely going to jump on any bandwagon that Dr Oz is on. Unfortunately he has recommended so many dangerous things that I don’t trust anything he says now.

I MUST START WALKING MORE…. maybe this is a good time to get some primal people together and get outside more. It feels like spring in New Orleans right now!

Financially and otherwise. All those extra processing steps make a more expensive and less healthy end product. I’ve never had raw milk and really want to try it. Can’t find it anywhere. The closest is probably whole milk pasteurized yogurt.

I tried Garcinia Cambogia for two months last year…didn’t do anything for me.

Thanks for this point Mark, “At some point, we have to stop the relentless pursuit of… what? What are we looking for, really? How much healthier can we get?” I just came to the realization this weekend that the crazy, obsessive tracking habits I was trying to get away from when I started reading about Paleo and Primal living in November was starting to creep back into my life already.
At first I tried to tell myself that I was tracking a bunch of ridiculous numbers every day with a “better, healthier” mindset this time, but it’s still obsessive tracking that isn’t really going to make me healthier or feel better. I don’t want to waste my time tracking numbers when I could be reading Primal Blueprint (just received it last week) or walking in the snow or planning for a trip to go rafting in the Grand Canyon this summer!! I have more important things to think about than what I weigh, how much I’m eating and drinking exactly every day, or how many push-ups I did this Monday versus last Monday… These numbers won’t mean a darn thing in my life five, ten, thirty years from now!! I’m pretty healthy and happy right now and I want to enjoy the other things in my life as I become healthier and happier!!

I happen to have take garcinia cambogia, and believe it or not it has worked for me. People tend to be very selective while reading or hearing about certain things, not taking in the whole. For weight loss its 3k a day. 1500 before breakfast, 1500 before lunch or dinner. Did you get the right pills? I have the one that only has potassium in it with no fillers or anything else. Dr. Oz repeatedly gives the facts and informs whats out there but never endorses. I think we get so excited to try something new because we hope someday there will be something worthwhile out there.. with science, they are coming up with greatness everyday. Also! You still are suppose to eat healthy and exercise and it does curb my appetite. It’s not some miracle drug. It “helps” that is all. My whole lifestyle has changed and I feel better than ever!

Keep pushing through everyone and I wish you all great success on your journey!

Ultra-pasteurized milk is used ALOT in other countries. I lived in Mexico for many years, and it was commonly used by the poorer populations, because they often didn’t have the means to refrigerate things. (no electricity) The ultra-pasteurized milk could be stored, and then used up quickly (it came in litre boxes, which was just enough for a meal). We tried it because it was everywhere, but it tasted very much like powdered milk (ick).

Step counters are really useful tools. I wear a Fitbit and can tell you that 1000 steps just around the house clock up really quickly.

Prior to illness, I walked 3 miles each morning with the dogs, taught across a large college campus during the day and took further walks at weekends. I really miss walking for so many reasons.

In the meantime I monitor my limited activity and hope to extend what I can do when the time is right. M.E. is a cruel illness that snatches active lives. In Grok’s time I’d now be out of the gene pool! 😉

I grew up with my mum having M.E although it was misdiagnosed so many times in the 80s as it’s still a relatively newly discovered disease. We had to go through all the “oh it’s all in your head” crap and the like, and my mum also was previously an extremely active and positive individual. She felt awful and guilty that she couldn’t do so many activities with us as children. You guys are amazing though and I have utter admiration at the way you deal with such a horrible illness. My mum is so positive and works as much as she can at recognising her energy levels and listening to her body while still trying to get the most out of life. She has those “sod it” moments when she’ll go ahead and do the gardening any way even though she knows it will put her in bed for 2 days! I hope that you continue to improve and feel better Sally.
Best Wishes,
Laura

Anything with Dr. Oz’s name attached to it may as well be his way of shouting out what his latest financial investment is. A reporter exposed his money involvement with the things he hawks, and recently, the FDA sucker-punched him with the Sensa/green coffee beans/red raspberry ketones recall.

He has losses, yes, so he has to make them up SOMEHOW…and that somehow is hawking a supplement that only serves to give many people diarrhea.

To me, enough walking is walking away from this guy and all the products he endorses (for profit). And in this case, I recommend running!

I’m someone who likes to continuously raise the bar and push myself, but think its huge to recognize and enjoy your current health and fitness state.

I focus on using health and fitness to do more fun things (hiking, surfing, jui jitsu, sleeping great, having lasting energy to do whatever…) rather than continuing to pursue higher levels of health and fitness just for the sake of the next level.

agree – knowing when to say “good enough” a hard but huge insight. part of the difficulty is that in order to get “good enough” we set up habits and part of the habit is the “continual improvement” orientation.

in ‘total immersion swimming’ terry tries to finesse this to swimming with more grace and ease, so that the “continuous improvement” isn’t grueling and compulsive but meditative – a nice sublimation of the drive.

Mark: Thanks for taking up the ultra-pasteurization question. I’d found it very difficult to sort the “wheat from the chaff” in this circumstance, in that the “anti” crowd had something to sell from their inventory, and the “pro” crowd was the ultra-pasteurization dairies themselves. Your input has helped me decide which side I’m coming down on…thanks.

Even though you may not be looking for ‘macro’ changes in lifestyle (those were probably made as a result of the Primal Blueprint) there are always new things to be learned, new avenues to explore. On top of this, what about trying to be mindful of everything you do each day.

Awesome article, the third part really answers my question of the day. I feel I have a great handle on what to eat and when to eat it, but exercise is my serious weak point still. I do some yoga, but I’m working at walking 3 miles everyday right now. It takes me about 20 minutes per mile, I hope to get that down to 15 min/mile, and then go up to 5 miles a day. My main goal was to reach 10,000 steps a day which is the magic number for my health insurance Humana. Of course I need to get a fitbit first (which is why I measure in miles right now). But it is great to see that you also agree with the 10,000 steps a day. Thanks Mark.

Loved your answer to Tanya. I know some folks at the gym whose entire lives revolve around their health and fitness goals. Yes, they’re very fit and healthy, but they’re also very boring and one-dimensional.

If you really want a goal, how about this: How much food can you grow? You can never have too much home-grown food! (Well, maybe zucchinis.) Any excess can be given away.

Since going primal about three years ago I’ve gravitated away from most supplements. I like extracts and still use whey occasionally but don’t spend much on them. I just try to eat natural foods until I’m full and figure that way I must be getting enough nutrition to be healthy, and that taking supplements as if they’re drugs for specific effects like fat burning isn’t something I need to do if I’m exercising enough. I tried CLA some years ago. That didn’t work out.
I prefer to get free samples from supplement stores. The other night I played the pity card and showed the lady at the counter the gash on my hand and asked if there was anything free and healthy that might help me heal. She gave me three packets of naturally flavoured whey sweetened with stevia (kind of like Primal Fuel without the coconut fat) and two little bottles of concentrated ginseng/mint/licorice/some other stuff extract. Also walked into Teaopia with about a third of a pint can of beer hidden in my coat sleeve and hastily filled it with a jasmine tea sample and then walked out. Think I should go back to get more. I’m also thinking about trying out the Master Formula sometime soon. Of all the vitamin/mineral supplements I’ve looked into it appears to be superior.
The Desolation of Smaug was pretty cool. I had to say WTF at the ending though.

I’m in for some difficulties ahead. I’m banned for a month from the only half-decent shelter around. The other, let’s call it a quarter decent, is full. I got caught trying to steal sardines from a grocery store when somewhat drunk. The cops drove me back to the shelter and said not to leave. The staff said they’d call them if I left and to go to bed. It was about 6:30pm. That was just not going to happen. I had some errands to run so I climbed out a second story window, stretching my leg and grabbing the edge of the roof to reach a small lower roof overhanging the front porch, then jumped off that (~9 or 10) feet into the snow. My schemes were completed successfully but upon returning I got my ban letter. Now I’m out on the streets and am going to have to sleep in churches for the next few weeks, and there is a delay on my payday so it looks like I’ll have to be scavenging for good food like omega 3s.

Re being more healthy: as has been covered in this space before : sleep, meditation and giving to others contribute to health. And the latter adds to not just your health but the health of the population.

And thanks for listening, I LOVED the snowboarding photo when I opened today’s post. Made me laugh out load. Gracias!

it’s not just milk: http://goo.gl/0iHB3J “The most common UHT product is milk, but the process is also used for fruit juices, cream, soy milk, yogurt, wine, soups, honey, and stews.[1]” And also baby foods.

“High heat during the UHT process can cause Maillard browning and change the taste and smell of dairy products.[3]”

“UHT milk has a typical shelf life of six to nine months, until opened.”

I just want to say BRAVO for the response to Tanya, and that’s no offense to her or her question. Just that this kind of response is exactly what I come to MDA for as opposed to any other site. The ultimate goal is to be fit and happy.

Love it…. fitness is the base from which you launch yourself into life more fulfilled and happier. Taking pleasure in knowing you are complete human being. Many of us approach fitness as though it is the end, when it is in fact the means to an end. Spending time with family playing on the beach, or falling into a deep sugar free sleep, eating a huge ribeye slathered in butter mmmm…not having to worry about the scale because you look Awesome…. Small pleasures but pleasures nonetheless. I love being Primal…….Grok on and on and on

David: You sound like you were where I was after I started eating mostly primal (5’10”, 185 to 190 lbs). The “lift heavy things” a couple of times a week and moving 3-5 hours a week, at least, will get rid of that last 15 to 20 pounds, if you’re not doing it already. Adding in two sessions of weight training, including body weight training, was the last piece of the puzzle for me.

Oh man, do I have to? Mark, thanks for the answer. And I’m more likely to run a marathon than lift weights 2 times a week. And even the extreme aerobic exercise doesn’t make much of a dent in my weight. That said, I went early last year for an insurance physical. All my numbers except weight were EXCELLENT! Yeah Paleo. So the weight concern is more about esteem than health.

i have a dear mark?
I’m just curious…i understand that grain has a plants genetic code and is designed to protect this code via.gluten etc, making grain a poor food choice. Couldn’t the same be said for seeds and nuts…how do they protect themselves and remain edible and healthy?

Mark, thank you SO much for that third answer, the one about diminishing returns when trying to achieve even better and better “health”, whatever that might mean. 😛 It really struck home to me, and I’m sure to a lot of other people too. You’re the best!

+1! It is WAY too easy to get wrapped up in the numbers and tracking everything. For about 2 years I was tracking every gram I ingested (yes, every gram).

At some point I thought to myself: “You’re spending at least an hour each day logging all of this information. But what are you actually DOING with this information?”

When my only answer was “making sure my macro-balance is dead-on,” I decided it was time to stop tracking so granularly, be mindful of what I eat and use that time to play with my kids. Since then my returns have been increasing.

Yes, ultra pasturized milk is more susceptable to bacterial contamination, but its more susceptible to BAD bacterial contamination. All the wonderful natural probiotic bacteria that live in raw milk and can be harnessed to create yoghurt have been killed. Its doesn’t turn into yoghurt, its just goes off.

great answers mark.every day i think about something different i need to do or am not to sure about,bam,there it is next day on mda.perfect.
sometimes i do feel that i spend too much time researching details and not doing,which leads to feeling stressed because think im not doing enough.time to let go and move,
cheers,

I know how Tanya feels, and I loved your response. Chasing the high of self-improvement is intoxicating – but after a point I too have found continued pressure yields not much return on effort. I have also found crafts are indeed a wonderful outlet! Sew, knit, or crochet yourself something fantastic to showcase the goods.

Hey Mark, something very truthful you said in the article above that may get lost in the noise, but tweaking beyond a certain point is just completely counterproductive. Perfection just does not exist, does it?

Thanks for the reminder that enough is enough! I have been primal for so long that I thought for sure that being less-than-perfect was why some things were, well, less-than-perfect. Then one day my husband said, “Don’t you think maybe all the obsessing is stressing you out, and that’s the cause of your problems?” Talk about a wake-up call! Now I actually try to let myself have that 20% if it’s what I really want.

Well said! And thanks for the reminder! We should all stop and smell the roses more often, instead of constantly pushing and pushing higher and higher. Live and enjoy the healthy life, but don’t let it become an addiction. 😉

I grew up listening to my grandmother’s tale of how she went blind on one eye from a tubercolosis infection she got from drinking raw cow milk.
While I can understand how raw milk may have proteins that are more beneficial than in denatured state, I wonder if it is necessarily a gamble with one’s life, or is there a way to make sure there is no infection present…
Even if I were to boil the milk, I’d probably denature it more than any UP process, and I’m not sure I’d trust any farm that says their cows are definitely not carrying disease…

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Interviews with Mark Sisson and other health experts. Audio versions of select Mark’s Daily Apple posts each week. “Best of MDA” recordings. Fresh, lively content to help you stay at the cutting edge of Primal living!