Nothing, even AWESOME ST films, will ever live up the OT simply because it is a different world today. One could almost blame the OT itself for this being as it was these films that created and evolved into the current state of films.

I think at least for casual star wars fans the main reason they did not enjoy the PT as much wasn't because it didn't fall in line with what they had built up in their mind. It was mainly because of the pretty subpar acting, writing, and directing in the movies. I think casual viewers will enjoy the ST a great deal more than they did the PT because chances are it wil be superior in all three of those categories than the PT was (and even perhaps superior to the OT in those categories).

I think the die hards will be the ones who will be harder to satisfy. How well will they accept it if it throws all the storylines that the EU had created over the years in the trash? How well will they accept it if it doesn't satisfy the story they have already created in their mind for what they personally want to see happen?

In anycase a clear way to have a box office flop is to make a movie for the die hards. Making movies that the majority can enjoy though is the way to have an extremely popular movie that will bring in lots of cash.

Thats very true. This movie most likely wont be made for the hard core fans. Its most likely being made for general audiences *much like how the Star Trek reboot is more for average moviegoers than the life long trekkies*. In regards to the EU it makes you wonder "Do general audiences care about if this movie is accurate to a book they never heard of?". Most likely no so it comes down to two options "You please your hard cores but possibly alienate your general audience because we'll have fans understanding everything but nonfan not getting the reference" or you make a film mostly for average movie goers but piss off some fans. Hard choice.

There was good acting AND bad acting in the OT as well. Personally, I wouldn't blame the acting for what most see the PT to be. The things that stuck with us from the OT happened very naturally. When you try to repeat certain reactions and connections on purpose, it rarely works. I also think that the story, although basically works, lacked a certain thoughtfulness that the OT had.

For the record, I like the PT for what it is. I'm an original generation Star Wars guy, and the PT was fine for me, but that's not to say there are not things I don't like about it. I'm also a Star Wars film guy, so no EU influence here.....

Looks like a great discussion is going on here. I was a bit concerned that people would turn this thread into a simple PT vs OT flame war but to my surprise, that has not happened. Everyone is going about this with a bit more mature and reasonable tone, much appreciated.

After I get out of work today I will come back and read all the replies and add my 2cents to the discussion.

But everyone is reminded to continue to play nice... it got a little close to the edge there for a while, and this is a topic with the potential to drive the thread into lockville if the OT vs the PT stuff gets too heated. Thanks.

When people think of the OT it's usually the ESB. That's when you see the best dialogue and acting. Not that the original three were great actors, but Kirschner got the most out of them. Some of ANH's dialogue can be teeth grinding at times. Not as bad as anything that ever came out of Jar Jar's mouth or the private scenes with Padme and Anakin, but they hardly flow smoothly. The PT were a success despite those limitations because of 1) visually they are good movies, 2) the overall story, 3) John Williams.

In the ST we'll have stories by Lucas, a director who can do big visual stuff. (And before you complain about lens flares, but happy it's not the explosions Michael Bay uses endlessly). And John Williams will likely be back. Though he's 81, will be 83 before Ep VII comes out and 87 when Ep IX comes out.

Daredevil was awful, Electra even worse. By comparison even TPM was merely disappointing.

For me, it wasn't the story that was the problem in the PT but the acting and editing. There were some things that should've been re-shot and some things edited out that wasn't up to quality. Bottom line is, Lucas got soft on his actors and accepted a low quality cut from his editor when he should have stuck with his own hardline methods from back in the '70s.

Maybe one day Disney will have one of their own editors go back and examine all the PT shot footage and put out a revised version that would enhance Lucasfilm's cut, instead.

I still think they should have played it safe with something that succeeded and filmed the Thrawn Trilogy instead, but that's just me I guess. And who cares if they have to re-cast. It's the characters that we care about anyway, right?

For me, it wasn't the story that was the problem in the PT but the acting and editing. There were some things that should've been re-shot and some things edited out that wasn't up to quality. Bottom line is, Lucas got soft on his actors and accepted a low quality cut from his editor when he should have stuck with his own hardline methods from back in the '70s.

Maybe one day Disney will have one of their own editors go back and examine all the PT shot footage and put out a revised version that would enhance Lucasfilm's cut, instead.

I still think they should have played it safe with something that succeeded and filmed the Thrawn Trilogy instead, but that's just me I guess. And who cares if they have to re-cast. It's the characters that we care about anyway, right?

We all don't like. I like, but since Dark Empire and the JA Trilogy there have been two camps in the post-RotJ EU. Those who loved the Thrawn series and those who loved Dark Empire/JA Trilogy. The latter along with those brought in during the PT moved on to the NJO.

Personally I wouldn't like to have seen a rehash of the Thrawn Trilogy. After the PT it would need some revision. Maybe a mash-up with some of the Rogue Squadron plot elements as well as some things new.

Whenever I hear the arguments of prequel haters, I can't help but wonder if we even saw the same movie.

I hear the same general criticisms levied against the PT time and again: the story was bad, the acting was lame, the special effects were overblown, the director was dispassionate (plus Jar Jar or flying R2 or dopey battle droids or midi-chlorians usually come into it). The funny thing about all of these criticisms is that you could also bring them to bear on the OT with equal validity (which has plenty hams of its own; i admit I think Jabba is totally lame).

it's an insult to cinema and art itself. You can use that exact same anti-logic for ANY FILM or piece of art, for that matter: "Oh well you just don't "get" the director's vision. It's just not what YOU wanted. Why don't you just enjoy it for what it is." You could literally apply that to any film ever made.

I don't want to villify King_Crimson at all, as I too am a KC fan, however I though it was interesting to bring this up. I don't believe this sentiment is insulting to anyone or anything, 'art itself' least of all. As far as I'm concerned, 'not getting it' on some level is ultimately/essentially the only reason to dislike any artwork, and it's the fact that is IS possible to apply this logic with any artwork which makes it universal.

At the end of the day, everything you could dislike about a movie is the shadow of something which somebody else would totally love, and vice versa. I happen to think the story was fantastic, the acting practically perfect, the special effects continually innovative, and I know for a fact GL put every fiber of his being into those films. I don't just 'enjoy the PT for what it is', I absolutely love it! If other people don't appreciate the same qualities and turn out not to like the movie, and that's their perogative.

EDIT: OH RIGHT this is an ST thread. weeeeeellllllll all I got to say is at least this time around, we know what to expect from a new batch of haters. Hell, maybe I'll end up being one of them. You never know.

EDIT: OH RIGHT this is an ST thread. weeeeeellllllll all I got to say is at least this time around, we know what to expect from a new batch of haters. Hell, maybe I'll end up being one of them. You never know.

If I had not left the site in 2004/if the Basher's Sanctuary had still been around at the time of ROTS, I would have joined it. I hated that damn movie. Still do.

I already see it now. You are all excited about the upcoming "sequel trilogy" but by the time we get to Episode 8 or Episode 9, the sequel trilogy would be more in lined with the prequels, not the originals.

Because people put the original SW movies on such a HIGH pedestal and people had their own preconcieved visions of what Anakin Skywalker was like and such, the PT wasn't too popular with the hardcore SW crowd to the point where even casual SW fans bash on the PT. Hell, it it is sort of "cool" or trendy to say something like "The prequels suck" or "I prefer the originals", even from a 19 year old who probably grew up on the PT. Too much romance, too much politics, too much CGI etc etct etc....

The Sequels would be no different. People through EU already have their preconcieved thoughts and ideas about the post ROTJ realm and if the story from the ST does not match up to that (Just like GL's vision of Anakin didn't match up with most people's) then you all will whine and cry about it. Even if Han, Luke, and Leia all return (and possibly Lando and Chewie) then you all will find some nitpick reasons to keep the OT on that such high pedestal.

Say what you want about the PT, but at the core the main fault was that people were too closed minded to accept GL's vision of Anakin. I bet most people visioned Anakin Skywalker to be force choking people at an early age and just a walking menace. However that wasn't the case, he was just a niave little boy with great aspirations....like MOST little boys and girls are. However, that didn't play too well with the general fanbase. In EP2 when Anakin was a teenager, he was hormonal and very rebellious. Some would say he was whiney but then again, what teenager isn't? Anakin like most teens believes the world revolves around him. However, that didn't play too well with the general fanbase.

I suspect some similar things would happen with the Sequel Trilogy. It is said that the ST would NOT use the EU as a guideline but instead have a new story as to what happens post ROTJ. This means no Mara Jade, no Jacen Solo and all that other EU crap. Luke might have kids but they will be new and Disney's vision. Han and Leia may or maynot be married and may have kids, but they would be how Disney invisioned them. There will be conflicts but it would be conflicts created by Disney. This alone woud cause a stirr and this is where I believe the hate/bashing of the Sequel Trilogy would begin.

Me personally, I am glad that it won't follow EU as I have never read any EU material that is post ROTJ. I am more of an Old Republic Era type guy. So I would at least be able to go into this trilogy with a wide open mind. Many of you here has spent years clinging onto an idea of what the post ROTJ era was like through works such as the Thrawn Trilogy and so on. Therefore when you see the ST, instead of having an open mind, you would subjectively be comparing it to what you already knew (or that you knew) about the post ROTJ realm. This is where the conflict could arise.

I can see it now, people blaming JJ Abrams for not having a true Star Wars vision. Or Disney not taking the SW license seriously and ruined the post ROTJ era by not following the EU. Hell, I wouldn't be surprised if fans attacked Mark, Carrie, and Harrison for not bringing that same "mystic" to the ST as they did with the OT and labeling them as actors just trying to get another paycheck. People did this with the recent Indiana Jones film saying that Harrison didn't put too much effort into the film.

There would be more complaints but all you need to know is that people would nitpick the ST just like they did with the PT and not allow the ST to be itself. This is how the ST could possibly suffer the same fate as the PT. Come 2020 when the ST is over (Assuming EP9 is released in 2019), people would proclaim the OT as the true and greatest SW films and labeling the PT/ST as just money grabbers for George Lucas and Disney. We will have endless dicussions of people who are pro PT vs those who are Pro OT. Hell, perhaps a new trilogy would be announced and the cycle would once continue.

TL;DR -- People will be too closed minded to accept the ST for what it is and immerse themselves in Disney's vision of the post ROTJ era. People would stubbornly cling onto EU "facts" and not accept what is given to us in the ST and thus would create a wave of people bashing the ST for every small detail the same way they did with the PT.

I agree with you that there's a whole lot of unnecessary fashionable bashing of the prequels. Every element of them gets criticised even though they actually did many things very well.
BUT... they had some serious problems and were not of the same standard as the originals. Although I think Episode 3 was better than Episode 6 and not too far behind 4.

He was a horribly written character.
He wasn't likeable at all.
He was terribly acted by both Hayden and Jake.

GL's "version" was a weird unit that was a creep. I never believed for a second that Padme would have fallen for him!

The idea was great, I mean imagine Kodi Smit McPhee as young Anakin, with no comic relief besides R2D2/C3P0 and Lucas not at the Director's helm, the PT just became a lot better with three ideas, unfortunately we don't have a TARDIS.

He was a horribly written character.
He wasn't likeable at all.
He was terribly acted by both Hayden and Jake.

GL's "version" was a weird unit that was a creep. I never believed for a second that Padme would have fallen for him!

The idea was great, I mean imagine Kodi Smit McPhee as young Anakin, with no comic relief besides R2D2/C3P0 and Lucas not at the Director's helm, the PT just became a lot better with three ideas, unfortunately we don't have a TARDIS.

Sorry mate I just woke up (night shift) and the brain is not functioning yet...what is a TARDIS?

Sorry mate I just woke up (night shift) and the brain is not functioning yet...what is a TARDIS?

A time machine from Doctor Who.

But on-topic, I still believe that the Sequel Trilogy can be done very well, the first few announcements can either destroy this belief or reinforce it heavily, Abrams is walking a career-making or career-killing slope at the moment.

He was a horribly written character.
He wasn't likeable at all.
He was terribly acted by both Hayden and Jake.

GL's "version" was a weird unit that was a creep. I never believed for a second that Padme would have fallen for him!

Yes although I usually defend many of the well done parts of the PT.... I agree that Anakin was one of the problem points that contributed the cirtical failure. He came across as a spoilt brat.

Padme falling for such a spoilt brat when she was such an intelligent and morally convicted character was far from believable. Very poor directing, casting and acting (from Hayden.... Natalie Portman is a brilliant actor however, it's hard to do a great job with weak dialogue, directing and co-actors).

Sorry mate I just woke up (night shift) and the brain is not functioning yet...what is a TARDIS?

A time machine from Doctor Who.

But on-topic, I still believe that the Sequel Trilogy can be done very well, the first few announcements can either destroy this belief or reinforce it heavily, Abrams is walking a career-making or career-killing slope at the moment.

Sorry mate I just woke up (night shift) and the brain is not functioning yet...what is a TARDIS?

A time machine from Doctor Who.

But on-topic, I still believe that the Sequel Trilogy can be done very well, the first few announcements can either destroy this belief or reinforce it heavily, Abrams is walking a career-making or career-killing slope at the moment.

I have to admit, I opened this thread expecting to see this kind of fantrum in the opening post, but at least it got a few replies before one hit.

Like everyone else who's excited for the new movie, I read every story that pops up on the new trilogy or new article about Star Wars in general, but my tolerance for people who think it's clever to toss in prequal digs or 'George Lucas let the cheese fall off his cracker' jokes, has gone to zero as I tend to skip right down to the end or close up the article all together now.

Funny enough, the rant above is exactly what the OP was saying will (and still does) happen...

Wow, what a way to completely miss the point of my post. You guys are something else.