Ultra Runners

Salt tablets (Read 772 times)

Just saw this article posted from ultralist. One interesting comment was about salt caps causing nausea if not enough water is taken. Anyone notice any truth to this, or thoughts about electolyte usage in general? At IAT 50, I was taking one s-Cap every hour and got nauseated around 5 hours. Never really figured out root cause but this has got me thinking...

I was surprised to see something this week on ultralist that wasn't related to pepper spraying dogs or chafed balls.

I want to do it because I want to do it. -Amelia Earhart

xor

posted: 5/22/2012 at 1:11 PM

I often like pepper spray with my salt tablets.

One s-cap an hour probably isn't going to kill my stomach in five hours... but it is a small piece of a bigger thing. Lots of other factors.

But that said:

1. Yeah, if I chow an s-cap and don't drink much, my stomach WILL hurt. s-caps are big on sodium. That hurts me if it just sits there.

2. Electrolyte supplements are not created equal. I grew up with the hammer product (endurolytes). Check the labels... endurolytes are way way different from s-caps. A whole lot less sodium, a little bit of other stuff. Which is better? AH, well, that depends on you. BUT... I'm used to how I take endurolytes. If I replace my e-cap with an s-cap, my stomach can tell - compounded if I don't drink enough with it. Especially if I stupidly pop the s-caps at the same rate I'm used to taking endurolytes... that's a lot more sodium.

(why would I do that? because I'm stupid and believed that what I was given was one when it was the other. Which is why I try to take care of myself)

I was surprised to see something this week on ultralist that wasn't related to pepper spraying dogs or chafed balls.

The last thing I would think to do with chafed balls is apply pepper spray, but hey, maybe those ultra guys are on to something. Hair of the dog, and all that.

"It WAS all fun and games until Odysseus put my eye out with a sharp, burning stick."-Polyphemus

jjameson

posted: 5/22/2012 at 2:54 PMmodified: 5/22/2012 at 2:54 PM

Nausea has a lot of causes. I think ultrarunners overdo salt in general, and tend to blame poor performances, cramping, nausea, headaches, puffiness, you name it, on too little/too much salt. Just my feeling and I know everyone is different.

There are some scientific studies that support this, and this article (and related articles on the same website) seems to be well written:

I think most runners are going to go with whatever works/feels good for them to hell with research!

Joe (who has been known to take 3 salt sticks at one time when he fell on the ground with uncontrollable leg spasms at mile 30 during Superior 50)

DoppleBock

posted: 5/24/2012 at 5:28 PM

I overdo S-caps, but I also drink like a mo-fo usually 40-50 ounces per hour ~ I have never had a sloshy stomach, so I must be able to process it.

Nausea has never been an issue and I have taken 30-35 S-caps in 24 hours. But I am way out of balance by the end and if I do not drink at lease a gallon of water post race - I will be passing out every time I try and stand up.

Nausea has a lot of causes. I think ultrarunners overdo salt in general, and tend to blame poor performances, cramping, nausea, headaches, puffiness, you name it, on too little/too much salt. Just my feeling and I know everyone is different.

There are some scientific studies that support this, and this article (and related articles on the same website) seems to be well written:

I overdo S-caps, but I also drink like a mo-fo usually 40-50 ounces per hour ~ I have never had a sloshy stomach, so I must be able to process it.

Nausea has never been an issue and I have taken 30-35 S-caps in 24 hours. But I am way out of balance by the end and if I do not drink at lease a gallon of water post race - I will be passing out every time I try and stand up.

If I drank 40-50 ounces of water per hour, chances are I would be stopping to pee every hour. Do you sweat it all out or do you have a 200 ounce bladder?

I wish I had read Waterlogged before Western States. I was quite aware of the issue of EAH; still, I am pretty sure I overhydrated, drinking too much Gu2O in an effort to keep a steady stream of calories coming. (I peed 23 times!) I finished, but much slower than I had anticipated. (Final sodium was 137, low, but not too bad.)

After WS I read Waterlogged (my pacer put me onto it). Since then I have run a marathon, a hilly 50K, and a hilly 50M. In all three, I followed Noakes’ advice, specifically from the last chapter of his book: drink 600ml / hour, consuming 60g carbs / hour. That’s conveniently one 20-oz. handheld, and 3 gels. I drank 1/6 bottle every 10 minutes, with half a gel from a gel flask. I used Hammer Gel, because it has minimal sodium (20mg per gel). I took no other electrolytes. I also started each race with 400ml + 40g carbs in my stomach.

I was happy with the results:

- In the marathon (flat), 10 days post-WS, I ran a very comfortable 3:07 (PR is 2:58).- In the 50K, 10 days later, I ran a very comfortable race, beating my goal by 10 minutes, 1AG. Lots of quad-pounding downhill, but I was able to fly down the last long downhill, several miles. No cramps or anything approaching cramps.- The 50M was tougher (White River), and I was pretty beat up towards the end, but I did manage to beat my goal time by 13 minutes, and my previous White River time by two hours. Again, no cramps, though I was on the edge a couple of times.

I was very fascinated to read in this article about Uhan's experience with salt at WS (he says it helped), and Noakes’ comments on salt and performance. Perhaps I might have gotten a boost late at White River with some salt. The previous time I ran White River, I was frozen solid with quad cramps at M37, until someone ran by and gave me a salt pill… within 30 seconds, I was running again. That was not enough to convince me that salt has anything to do with cramps, but I’m looking back now with a new perspective.

I was planning on following the same fueling strategy for Cascade Crest 100, but there is no crew access or drop bags after M73, so that means muling an awful lot of gel if I want to stick to that… looks like solid food it will be. And I will have to reconsider salt.

DoppleBock

posted: 8/15/2012 at 3:22 PM

I do not think I could do as little as 600ML with how heavy I sweat - But I am looking to reduce from close to 40 ounces per hour maybe to 30. I will also reduce the salt intake in 1/2. This is a good starting point to play with it.

Retired 1/1/13

jjameson

posted: 8/15/2012 at 8:41 PM

Like you all, I am experimenting also. I've definitely been drinking less fluids. I've been running up to 3 hours without any fluids or calories on 75 degree days, and losing about 3-4 pounds during the run. I can feel the lack of calories in fatigue the last hour or so, but I'm only a little thirsty.

On the 5-6 hour runs I'm drinking less and feeling better. I did a 5 hour run and only drank 55 ounces (temp about 70 degrees) and lost 6 pounds. I took in about 1000 calories. I actually felt pretty good. A little thirsty. I took no salt tablets.

Not sure how it would translate to a hard 50 miler (or longer) with higher heat/humidity.

For Superior 50 I'm not going to take any salt unless I "need" to ie. muscle spasms (which usually start around 6 hours). I suppose if I'm sweating alot I will take a few salt tablets, but less than I usually do.

What I've learned so far (which isn't much in terms of how long I've been doing ultra's) is that I can do practically anything I want from a hydration/fueling perspective when I am training, repeat the exact same thing while racing and get very different reactions from my body. I've always drank to thirst both racing and training, only the amount of calories I've consumed has varied.

My takeaway from this article is that I may need to increase carb consumption as my max so far has been about 250 calories per hour. Also that sometimes anecdotal evidence can be just as significant as scientific evidence. I distinctly remember my first day of college physics, where the professor says, all those formulas they taught you in grade school/high school, well they weren't really accurate. Close, but no cigar... Of course that was a long time ago and I do not want to get into a physics discussion with Bhearn

jjameson

posted: 8/16/2012 at 7:07 AM

all those formulas they taught you in grade school/high school, well they weren't really accurate. Close, but no cigar...

You are talking about relativity, right?

The last year or so I've been reading about string theory and how it is able to explain both quantum mechanics and general relativity.