Have a chance to pick up a B&K Ref 7250 Series II amp for $450, currently driving my RC-70's plus RC-LCR, Polk FXiA6 surround 5.1 system with the Denon 4520 receiver.
I'm happy with the way they sound but wanted to know thoughts on any improvements an ext amp would have if any?
The B&K is a big amp, 87lbs and rated at 200W/ch at .09% THD at 1Khz 8ohms.

Have a chance to pick up a B&K Ref 7250 Series II amp for $450, currently driving my RC-70's plus RC-LCR, Polk FXiA6 surround 5.1 system with the Denon 4520 receiver.
I'm happy with the way they sound but wanted to know thoughts on any improvements an ext amp would have if any?
The B&K is a big amp, 87lbs and rated at 200W/ch at .09% THD at 1Khz 8ohms.

The 4520 is a pretty powerful receiver and you are only using 5 of its 9 amps. With only 5ch driven it should be able to easily put out 120+ w/ch (and since all channels aren't driven constantly with real content it's going to be more than that). And the RCs are fairly easy to drive.

The real question is how loud you listen? For a living room type setup where you only get moderately loud -- say no higher than 15-20 dB below reference -- you likely won't see any benefit. If you are trying to play really loud and especially in a bigger room you may be able to eke out a bit more clean headroom and dynamics.

Have a chance to pick up a B&K Ref 7250 Series II amp for $450, currently driving my RC-70's plus RC-LCR, Polk FXiA6 surround 5.1 system with the Denon 4520 receiver

B&K Reference Series amp's are good, period (as long as it's in good shape). I think the 200WPC power rating is perfect for the front-surround (RC-70's and RC-LCR). It could provide a solid power-base for your system, especially if you upgrade components (speakers, receiver or pre-pro) down the line. To me, it's the way to go these days.

Are the Rc-10's in the email ad? I looked and didn't see them. Or was it in the Sunday paper ad?

Edit.... found them on their site. I assume no promo code is needed then.

the -70s and LCRs were also on sale for $279 and $219 respectively. after some longggg back and forth thinking, I returned one of the set -10s that I had picked up and picked up two more LCRs for the stage. I was going to go the way of the -70s, but decided I really didn't want floor standing speakers at the current time. that's why I passed on the $249 deal just yesterday. when I clicked to see the if the LCR just might be on sale, my mind was made up for me.

the sales people usually don't know a lot more than I do (as little as that may be), but the person who returned the -10s was a big energy fan and liked my swap. conversely, the person who went to the warehouse to get the LCRs for me asked if I was sure I wanted them and that I'd be more satisified w/ a bose system =)

The 4520 is a pretty powerful receiver and you are only using 5 of its 9 amps. With only 5ch driven it should be able to easily put out 120+ w/ch (and since all channels aren't driven constantly with real content it's going to be more than that). And the RCs are fairly easy to drive.

The real question is how loud you listen? For a living room type setup where you only get moderately loud -- say no higher than 15-20 dB below reference -- you likely won't see any benefit. If you are trying to play really loud and especially in a bigger room you may be able to eke out a bit more clean headroom and dynamics.

Quote:

Originally Posted by WestCoastD

B&K Reference Series amp's are good, period (as long as it's in good shape). I think the 200WPC power rating is perfect for the front-surround (RC-70's and RC-LCR). It could provide a solid power-base for your system, especially if you upgrade components (speakers, receiver or pre-pro) down the line. To me, it's the way to go these days.

Thanks for the input fellas.
Probably picking it up today.
I know I probably don't really need it but I guess it's a pretty good deal.

the -70s and LCRs were also on sale for $279 and $219 respectively. after some longggg back and forth thinking, I returned one of the set -10s that I had picked up and picked up two more LCRs for the stage. I was going to go the way of the -70s, but decided I really didn't want floor standing speakers at the current time. that's why I passed on the $249 deal just yesterday. when I clicked to see the if the LCR just might be on sale, my mind was made up for me.

the sales people usually don't know a lot more than I do (as little as that may be), but the person who returned the -10s was a big energy fan and liked my swap. conversely, the person who went to the warehouse to get the LCRs for me asked if I was sure I wanted them and that I'd be more satisified w/ a bose system =)

thesharkman

You gotta be kidding me. Obviously the warehouse guy has never listened to good speakers.

the sales people usually don't know a lot more than I do (as little as that may be), but the person who returned the -10s was a big energy fan and liked my swap. conversely, the person who went to the warehouse to get the LCRs for me asked if I was sure I wanted them and that I'd be more satisified w/ a bose system =)

Future Shop employees are the same way. When I bought my RC70s, they were priced lower than the CF70s. The associate was trying to talk me into upgrading to the more expensive speaker. Another time I was there and no one in the A/V department had a clue what audyssey was even though they carry Onkyo, Denon and Marantz. This is the company that claims to be the "electronic experts" in their advertising.

I posted for FS my V-mini center speakers (have 3 for sale) if anyone is interested in the classified section. I used the three as my front stage so I have the mounting hardware that i used so two of them can be used as left and right. I am also looking for a pair of black v-mini bookshelf speakers to use as surrounds if anyone knows where I could find a pair. They seem to be hard to come by in black.

You gotta be kidding me. Obviously the warehouse guy has never listened to good speakers.

Quote:

Originally Posted by hernanu

You can't make this stuff up... !

lol...i kid you not. the gent was an older person who was working in TVs. to be fair, at least he knew what an LCR was and knew right away where on the display shelf to go to get the inventory card. the other sales person in the same department looked at me like i was nuts when i asked for two "energy LCRS."

Ignorance is bliss for some people in regards to sound quality. You also have to take into account the power of advertising. On the other hand, he might have just been messing with you.

As for the sales clerk not understanding your asking for two RC-LCR speakers, he probably isn't familiar with the product. It says it right on the box, that the RC-LCR can be used as a left, center, and/or right speaker.

When I had my theater business, one of my distributors had Bose on their line card. To become a dealer you had to go through a training class. I was open the day they had it so I went ahead and sat in on it. I was only interested in their plant pot speakers for patio/garden use.
Their line was a 70 point line!!! In other words, you buy it for 70% off retail. No wonder so many people try to sell it!!! You can make a fortune on it. I never finished the class, left half way through during one of the breaks. lol
Advertising and incentive for the seller is how Bose has become a household name.

When I had my theater business, one of my distributors had Bose on their line card. To become a dealer you had to go through a training class. I was open the day they had it so I went ahead and sat in on it. I was only interested in their plant pot speakers for patio/garden use.
Their line was a 70 point line!!! In other words, you buy it for 70% off retail. No wonder so many people try to sell it!!! You can make a fortune on it. I never finished the class, left half way through during one of the breaks. lol
Advertising and incentive for the seller is how Bose has become a household name.

To further what spinnin said about the power of advertising, it has become evident to me over the years that the first brand that comes to mind with any particular type of product is always the one that advertises the most, but rarely does that same brand offer the best product or value.

Dollars spent advertising has a more direct correlation to bottom dollar profits than does research and development. Sad.

I spent last night rearranging my set up and I discovered / learned a few things in the process.

The first thing I did was to pull the Technics receiver out of the mix. There's nothing wrong with it, I just wanted to utilize a three to five speaker front soundstage.

I ran all the cables to my Harman Kardon AVR 340 and then I put it in place on the rack.

I turned on the TV and the HK so I could utilize the On Screen Display (OSD) to set up the levels using my analog SPL meter.

A few things I should mention: First is that I am not running a subwoofer; I live in an apartment and I'm not looking to disturb the whole building with low frequency devastation. Second, Due to the layout of my main room, I am not able to run surround speakers at this time; there's no way to run the wires to the back and I'm missing one wall to mount a speaker plus, the futon is right up against the back wall, so the position for surrounds to be effective isn't there for a variety of reasons.

Back to the new(er) set up - The HK AVR sounds much better with the RC-70 speakers than did the Technics stereo receiver. Honestly, the RC-70s sound very good paired with the HK. I'm running the HK flat, no tone controls engaged (same as the Technics before the HK).

With the stereo mode sounding fabulous, I tried the front three speakers and was immediately aware that something was missing. Same thing for my significant other; she let out a few "ooo's" when hearing details / things in music she hadn't heard before in music with which she was familiar.

Today I got home and went through some of the settings and I discovered what the difference was in the two settings. Not limited to three channel listening, but associated with any mode other than stereo, the receiver cuts the frequencies below 40 Hz off from the speakers. In my humble opinion, this cuts the meat from what makes a set of tower speakers sound so full and rich when listening to the full spectrum of frequencies that they are capable of reproducing.

I don't think that, in a home theater setting, there is any need to go beyond the RC-LCR for your front speakers. The RC-10 speakers are very good, but the RC-LCR will give you the little extra detail from the additional 5.25" driver and the two 2" midrange drivers because the sub (in your system) will pick up all the low notes below 40 - 60 Hz (depending on where you set your crossovers). The RC-70 speakers sound great when they are running full range but, the RC-LCR is perfectly capable with a sub to pick up the slack. I guess what I'm trying to say, if I haven't said it already, is that (in my subjective opinion) the RC-70s are wasted as mains in a HT set up. They will not flourish as they are designed to do when their ability to reproduce a full spectrum is disabled. It's like buying a 300 watt amp and putting a choke on it so it's only capable of 50 watts.

I did run the EZset EQ, but I didn't find the results to be all that much better than my original settings with the analog SPL meter. I will say that I think Audyssey does a much better job with room corrections and calibrations. I have a slimline Marantz NR1402 in my bedroom set that sounds great paired with some Polk Audio RTi6 speakers. I can only imagine how amazing my main set up would be with an Audyssey enabled AVR. That will have to wait, for now, but I will get there eventually.

I connected the RC-10 speakers to the Multiroom / Zone 2 / Surround Back outputs on the HK and they sound good. I will have to run a test tone through them all independently to try to level match them, as the built in test tone generator doesn't run through the Multiroom speakers and the Main FR, FL, Center, Surround L, Surround R, Subwoofer, Surround Back R, Surround Back L. Yes, these are connected to the Surround Back L + R but, when running them in the Multiroom mode, I have to set the volume level independently from all the other speakers. I'm sure there's a way to do it, in fact I may have just figured it out, but it's not super important right now.

Back to the new(er) set up - The HK AVR sounds much better with the RC-70 speakers than did the Technics stereo receiver. Honestly, the RC-70s sound very good paired with the HK. I'm running the HK flat, no tone controls engaged (same as the Technics before the HK).

With the stereo mode sounding fabulous, I tried the front three speakers and was immediately aware that something was missing. Same thing for my significant other; she let out a few "ooo's" when hearing details / things in music she hadn't heard before in music with which she was familiar.

Today I got home and went through some of the settings and I discovered what the difference was in the two settings. Not limited to three channel listening, but associated with any mode other than stereo, the receiver cuts the frequencies below 40 Hz off from the speakers. In my humble opinion, this cuts the meat from what makes a set of tower speakers sound so full and rich when listening to the full spectrum of frequencies that they are capable of reproducing.
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This shouldn't be happening. Have you checked the HK's setting for the speakers?

Are all three set to large? I often have to re-set my settings (to small in my case).

Check the crossover. If they are set to small and the crossover is set to 40 Hz, this may be the issue.

Or you could be seeing that the distribution of the dialog and some other sounds are being delegated to the center speaker, which has a 48 Hz lower Freq. response limit, so that is being cut off by the capabilities of that speaker.

I use a full 7.1 RC (50, LCR, 10, mini) setup in an apartment with two small subs. I'm careful not to overemphasize the subs or the volume. No real problem with this.

The RC-70 speakers and the RC-LCR are set to LARGE and the RC-10 speakers are set to small.

Regardless of their respective size settings, in any surround sound application, the crossover setting on the receiver will not allow me to set it any lower than 40 Hz. This is variable all the way up to 200 Hz.

I have also engaged each specific surround sound field individually and each mode contains the same issues.

The only way I am getting full range frequency response is when the front two speakers are run in the STEREO / SURROUND OFF mode.

I guess I never noticed this before because I was using smaller bookshelf speakers for my mains (Polk Audio R15), the matching center channel (Polk Audio CSi25), surrounds (Polk Audio R15), and a sub (SVS 20-39 PCi) to handle the low notes. I'm pretty sure all the speakers in that 5.1 configuration were crossed at 60 Hz. I never tried to run the mains full range in that set up in stereo mode.

The RC-70 speakers and the RC-LCR are set to LARGE and the RC-10 speakers are set to small.

Regardless of their respective size settings, in any surround sound application, the crossover setting on the receiver will not allow me to set it any lower than 40 Hz. This is variable all the way up to 200 Hz.

I have also engaged each specific surround sound field individually and each mode contains the same issues.

The only way I am getting full range frequency response is when the front two speakers are run in the STEREO / SURROUND OFF mode.

I guess I never noticed this before because I was using smaller bookshelf speakers for my mains (Polk Audio R15), the matching center channel (Polk Audio CSi25), surrounds (Polk Audio R15), and a sub (SVS 20-39 PCi) to handle the low notes. I'm pretty sure all the speakers in that 5.1 configuration were crossed at 60 Hz. I never tried to run the mains full range in that set up in stereo mode.

I think (someone correct me if wrong) that if you set any speaker to small, you are enabling the crossover to whatever the internal crossover setting is at for the speakers designated as 'small'. This implies a sub to handle the lower frequencies (in this case 50 with the RC-10's).

You may be hearing the difference between a sub + surround speakers and your current subless setup.

The two channel setup may sound like fuller coverage since it is. In that situation, your are getting a downmix of the full range (center, fronts, surrounds) into the two speakers. In the setup you have now, it seems like your RC-10's are expecting to offload some of their sound to a sub, which is not there.

Have you tried setting all of the speakers to full and see if that improves things?

Your C500s are from the entry level below the RCs, so are basically of the same vintage and have more similar tonality than two other random Energy lines would. I've compared RC-10 vs C-100 side by side and they were more similar than different -- basically the RC series is a more refined (in all respects) version of those Cs.

So I think they will be a good enough match. And the center being better isn't a bad thing for HT, as the center carries the bulk of the action and of course almost all the dialogue. If your receiver has decent room correction software any minor tonal differences will be handled.

As to surrounds -- what are your constraints? Small bookshelfs, wall mounted, etc? If you can accommodate and want to really step things up, grabbing a par of RC-70s at the next Frys sale and then moving the C500s to surround would be sick. You could use those extra Polks as heights or Surr backs.

I got the Energy RC LCR shipped from Fry's yesterday. However, the left woofer has strange vibration. Today, I tried to press the rubber ring around the woofer several times, then the vibration is GONE.

I am wondering if it is OK to keep this speaker? What is the cause of the problem? Will it reappear?

I am in Canada. It is a bit hassle to replace it. Also, since the problem could not be reproduced now, I do not think Fry's will give me a replacement.

I think (someone correct me if wrong) that if you set any speaker to small, you are enabling the crossover to whatever the internal crossover setting is at for the speakers designated as 'small'. This implies a sub to handle the lower frequencies (in this case 50 with the RC-10's).

You may be hearing the difference between a sub + surround speakers and your current subless setup.

The two channel setup may sound like fuller coverage since it is. In that situation, your are getting a downmix of the full range (center, fronts, surrounds) into the two speakers. In the setup you have now, it seems like your RC-10's are expecting to offload some of their sound to a sub, which is not there.

Have you tried setting all of the speakers to full and see if that improves things?

Thanks again for the reply,

The RC-10 speakers are connected to the receiver's "MULTIROOM" outputs. They are not part of the 3 speaker front soundstage. They play full range sound through the "MULTIROOM / ZONE 2" output. They can play the same source as the mains or mains plus center or they can play an entirely different source.

What I've discovered in the speaker set up menu is that I cannot set any speaker lower than 40 Hz on the corresponding x-over menu when the speakers are shown to be in a 3 channel, 5 channel, or 7 channel application.

I will go through it all again, with your suggestions, just to be sure that I haven't missed anything.