This is my first time to Bman (yeah.. been really looking forward to it.) I Live in Vancouver where we have Wreck beach.. (a place where you can be butt naked, drink on the beach and do mushrooms or whatever your heart desires) of course thier is a community there who will let you in on the do's and don't are so i know it isn't that far from the FREE society of bman.

So far in my posting for help on the eplay i have been ridiculed, laughed at, told not to post things twice, told not to ask stupid questions (i thought it was relevant or i wouldn't have posted it) Sent to a Google page where bart simpson was saying that i have been sent thier because my question was fucking stupid, made to feel like an idiot. told not to want other people to do all my work (i was asking for a list of things to bring if anyone had one) and PM'd twice...and basically shat upon for my interest to be prepared and in the know so my trip will be a better one.

I hope that some vetran eplaya people can take the advice of a newbie Bman but old school life lover.... and smarten up. You all should be aware that it is discouraging to the newbie to be shat upon for asking a question....It may be old knowledge to you but if they post it then they do not have the same experience to call the answer from. It may discourage a really cool person by making it seem that the FREE society which they are attracted to and looking to be a part of is tainted by so called vetrans of the eplaya who are ill tempered, rude and most of all ridiculing.

If you don't have anything nice to say... don't replay... your bad energy is your own... not ours.

Wildeone, the road to BM starts with preparation. Many of the things you have asked are covered in the survival guide and in the recommended reading for ALL first timers who come to the playa. The veteran users of this board are not asking you to do anything special, they would like for you to take a few minutes and read the survival guides and other reference materials before asking your questions. That's it. It's not a vast right or left wing conspiracy, a secret cabal to keep you from the playa, or anything like that.

While there are some that might come across as mean, I'd much rather see them be mean and get you riled up and prepared now than to have to babysit you or who knows even call in a medivac to fly your ass to Reno because you didn't come prepared. The playa is an unforgiving place. It will spank your ass. This group loves the event, many of them don't mind new people coming in. We simply ask that you do your part to join us. Read the reference materials. Then...ask any question you want as you prepare to go.

Another thing that is critical to remember is that last year BRC held over 30,000 people. Don't let the writings and actions of a few online personas color your view of the event. This is a microcosm of the event...but it's not even close to the real thing. There are some damn good people on the playa. Anyway I'll get off the soapbox but before I go remember this one overriding rule that many people follow on the playa: Don't mess up anyone else's experience. If you read the guides you will come prepared enough to function in the community and earn your place in it. And you shouldn't have to worry about messing up anyone else's experience.

I have read the survival guide Tancorix... as you mentioned in an earlier post about tiki torches, there are so many depths in site that cross referencing. this can lead to mistakes and obviously there is as one place says "No tiki torches other than the esplinade and one says no tiki torches within 10 feet of a structure. I have since gone back and went through all survival guide links and found no posting of a bring it list..... this is why i asked.... not to be shat upon for asking what i thought to be a relevant question

My questions were just. My intentions are to be well prepared. I am a true survivor and do not forsee my ass being medivaced to Reno (without the rest of my body or i will truely be toast.) Just remining those advice givers to be more helpful than quick to bite off a limb... Give people the benifit of the doubt and most of all be open to what are they really asking... The list i refer to was once posted up in a posting some-one else posted weeks ago.... i was diligent to get it and go through it there... I do not need to be told it was a stupid question.

I realize that there is many people there and will not allow any one persons veiw 2 taint my energy as i have the ability to choose whether i let thier energy affect mine. I look forward to the Bman axperience and will enjoy those who enjoy good energy, spirituality and a live and let live presence.

Ignore the smart ass remarks; most eplayans don't mean anything by it. Ask all the questions you want. For every one person that asks a question, I'm sure there are ten more lurking out there that are wondering the same thing. : )

It's weird... I've decided to hang out on the eplaya almost entirely in order to answer questions and make an attempt at imparting some bit of wisdom to those who have newly arrived upon the idea of going to burning man.

I figure that if I can help a first timer not do something dumb it's possible that I'm potentially helping every person they come into contact with during the event. I get a warm happy glow inside.

But.

I do get frustrated by seeing the same questions arise and get answered again and again. I think it is this frustration you've run up against.

It gets depressing to answer the same question a hundred times during the course of the year. Especially when we just *know* the search function would bring those discussions up.

Out of curiosity, what do you mean by a FREE society?

BTW, be prepared to run into rude, ill-tempered people on the playa too - it happens. Dehydration makes people grumpy. Not everyone is an assholes but if you're prepared for that too it won't hurt you.

Lydia Love wrote:I do get frustrated by seeing the same questions arise and get answered again and again. I think it is this frustration you've run up against.

It gets depressing to answer the same question a hundred times during the course of the year. Especially when we just *know* the search function would bring those discussions up.

I hear what you are saying Lydia, and greatly appreciate the fact that you come to answer the questions at all.

I will suggest to you and others, however, that if you are getting depressed by the repetition and possibly searchable questions - then don't answer. I adore the sense of duty that some Burners have to help out the new guys, but if you feel more frustration than goodwill - step aside and let someone else answer, rather than react.

Wildeone, I appreciate that you had a negative experience on another thread. I very clearly lent you my support on that one. As with life, you can choose to keep the good or the bad close to your heart. There are a number of people who responded more helpfully, and I encourage you to bring that home with you, too.

Lydia Love wrote:I do get frustrated by seeing the same questions arise and get answered again and again. I think it is this frustration you've run up against.

It gets depressing to answer the same question a hundred times during the course of the year. Especially when we just *know* the search function would bring those discussions up.

I think we're seeing more repetative questions on the new eplaya because it's harder to navigate. (Well, at least for my webtv it is). The old eplaya was simple, you could just scroll down the list and find the topic you were looking for.

Wildeone wrote:I have since gone back and went through all survival guide links and found no posting of a bring it list.....

Tancorix is absolutely right. It's things like this - statements showing that you either haven't read what we've recommended to you, or that you've only skimmed things, and missed something vital - that make trying to answer your questions so frustrating.

Almost the entirety of page 4 of this document is a list of things you MUST bring, things you SHOULD bring, things you should NOT bring.... This page is also reprinted here. If you really did go through all of the Survival Guide links, I have trouble understanding how you could have missed this.

My boyfriend's been working with the Emergency Services Department on the playa since they were still just a division of the Rangers; even when I wasn't going to the event myself, I was hearing stories from him about various people who had gotten themselves into trouble by doing (or not doing) something they could have easily avoided. He loves being able to help people when they need it - but he hates needing to help them, if you follow me. We don't want you to be one of those people...and sometimes we get a little abrasive in our attempts to prevent that.

I do owe you an apology for having been so immediately hostile. I've been around Burners for so long it's really easy for me to forget that I've only been Home once before, and that even with that prolonged exposure, I managed to do a couple of fairly boneheaded things. Let me make you an offer: If you find something, either in an old thread here or on the main BMan site, that you can't figure out the logic behind, PM me and I'll do my best to explain it, or to point you in the direction of someone who can.

im kind of having this issue in real life with the veterans i know who are going. they are having such control issues about the group camp (that they decided on without the rest of us) as well as who is allowed to come and under what exact circumstances, that a few of us have decided to defect and camp in our own tight knit group. even though we will be four virgin burners, we are by no means virgin travelers/campers nor are we so stupid that we require micromanagement. im not going there to have the best food/tent/camp/soundsystem/shower/radios, whatever. im going there to experience whats there. im trusting my instinct; if i cant stand these folks after one meeting, theres no way a week in the harsh desert will be anythng but a nightmare.

similarly, some of the the know it all attitudes from veterans on EPlaya is extremely annoying, especially when maybe people want other opinions besides what is written on one page of the internet. maybe they want more perspective, more details, etc. hey, MAYBE we are conditioned in this day and age to check our sources. I for one wouldnt go to burning man without talking to some others who'd gone. so maybe some of these posters dont have the luxury of actually knowing people to talk to.

but yeah the people who post "what kind of food do they sell" and other ignorant stuff have obviously not taken a few hours to research.

I will suggest to you and others, however, that if you are getting depressed by the repetition and possibly searchable questions - then don't answer......

Seconded. If the only content of my post is a bit of sniping or being pointedly shitty I tend to delete it after writing, before sending. We call that doing a "Thumper," over here. Keeping one's mouth shut if one has nothing positive to say.

Knowing that you're frustrated by seeing a repeated question does nothing for either the asker, nor other readers of your post. Your clever insults and slams don't really impress most folk, and you're certainly not giving useful information. So I'm contributing a new phrase to the discussion.

To, "pull a Thumper," occurs when a poster prevents themselves from creating, maintaining, or participating negatively in a flame war or otherwise nasty exchange. From the wise rabbit who said, "If you can't say anything nice, don't say anything at all." I find if I reward myself with a yummy after each time I pull a Thumper, I tend to pull them all the more often.

Badger wrote:As I interpret Godwin's Law it does. Using 'nazi' in the thread title makes it a non-starter on the order of dividing a number by zero.

Well go to. I tend to want to see direct and insulting comparisions before I invoke Godwin's Law. In context here I read "nazi," as the slang term for someone more interested in controlling other's behavior than monitoring their own. As opposed to referring to the actual Nazi party in Germany from the 1930s through VE day.

Ron wrote:...To, "pull a Thumper," occurs when a poster prevents themselves from creating, maintaining, or participating negatively in a flame war or otherwise nasty exchange. From the wise rabbit who said, "If you can't say anything nice, don't say anything at all." I find if I reward myself with a yummy after each time I pull a Thumper, I tend to pull them all the more often....

Wildeone wrote:...So far in my posting for help on the eplay i have been ridiculed, laughed at, told not to post things twice, told not to ask stupid questions (i thought it was relevant or i wouldn't have posted it) Sent to a Google page where bart simpson was saying that i have been sent thier because my question was fucking stupid...

Sensei just burst into tears at this point...
I'm so proud of you guys.

You too, 'Wildeone'.
Say a prayer for the Trash Nazi, while you're up.

I too have made it a point to be available to dispense my sordid wisdom to the newbies, because I remember too well how freaked out I was before my shoes actually hit the Playa. I came in at 11:30am on Monday during a hellacious 75 mph dirt storm w/ 5 ft visability (no exagerations necessary). I jumped out of the truck, put on my scarf and goggles, and RAN into the dust! Nothing could have prepared me for the exhilaration of those first few days. The lists I'd made, the fretting I went through was all forgotten in the wind.
How can you dispense this kind of knowlege? It doesn't fit on a to-do list. For those first 2 days I don't think I even changed my underwear let alone need supplies.

I also make it a point to educate people about all sorts of things. That's my calling and my job. And I usually start out kind, then when the idiocy starts, I get firm, blunt even. Mean? Hardly. Nazi? Far from it.

A. The only known text to name any of the Nazgûl is "The Hunt for the Ring" in Unfinished Tales. It names "the second to the Chief, Khamul the Shadow of the East" as Sauron's lieutenant in Dol Guldur; in a previous draft, he was called "the Second Chief (the Black Easterling)". Some believe that Gothmog, the lieutenant of Morgul, was also a Nazgûl; see question III.B.13 for further discussion.

Some people have used the name "Angmar" to refer to the Witch King. We know of no instance in which Tolkien used "Angmar" as a personal name; in his writings it always refers to the Witch King's country. Some still defend the use of "Angmar" as a convenient nickname, but as others find this irritating it is probably best avoided.

Q. Why didn't Sauron use the same Nine Rings to make more Nazgûl?

A. Probably because he didn't need to. Sauron did not lack for servants. The rulers of Rhûn and the Harad were already tributary to him. The benefit of handing out the Nine Rings originally was not so much in creating nine Ringwraiths as in gaining the allegiance of the leaders he corrupted.

It's at least questionable whether any new Ringwraith would have been under Sauron's domination via the Ring mechanism. While a Man who wore a Ring would eventually become a wraith, he would be a slave to that Ring. In the Second Age when Sauron made the original Ringwraiths, he could dominate their Rings with the One, and therefore dominate the bearers of the Nine as well. But in the Third Age, Sauron no longer had the one. The existing Nazgûl were tied to Sauron not by the One Ring but by the Nine, which Sauron held. [L #246 (331)] That raises the possibility that if Sauron gave one of the Nine Rings to another man, he would not only not get control of that Man but actually lose control of the Ringwraith who had formerly worn that Ring!

Conrad Dunkerson pointed out [r.a.b.t article, 15 Feb 2002...] that Sauron could probably dominate the Nazgûl even without using the One. He suggests a different reason why Sauron couldn't make "Nazgûl armies": "Just as any being truly mastering the One would have caused Sauron's dissolution precisely the same as if it had been destroyed, so too would any human mastering (and thus being mastered by) one of the Nine cause its power to be taken from any previous Nazgûl just as if the Ring had been destroyed [or] rendered powerless."

Badger wrote:I tend to want to see direct and insulting comparisions before I invoke Godwin's Law. In context here I read "nazi," as the slang term for someone more interested in controlling other's behavior than monitoring their own. As opposed to referring to the actual Nazi party in Germany from the 1930s through VE day.

I like ron... ron is the wordmaster......

I like purple she appoligised to me... and gave me answers to my questions....
I have actually (going to get shot here... i know) found the long lost list of things to bring to bman and am going to post it tonight in the advice section as it may help out some other newbie's...

Great posts people..... some of you are working overtime and should be rewarded like the thumper situation

Badger wrote:I tend to want to see direct and insulting comparisions before I invoke Godwin's Law. In context here I read "nazi," as the slang term for someone more interested in controlling other's behavior than monitoring their own. As opposed to referring to the actual Nazi party in Germany from the 1930s through VE day.

coolie responses people you are all working overtime to get this playa to the max

I love rons brain

I love the kindness in Purples appoligy and it does make me feel better... Purple has also answered my questions... yeah... thanks

I will be shot for this..... but i actually found where i hid that List file.... and will post it up in the advice section tonight so i may possible help other newbies...

Actually Bob, I've always interpreted the Ringwriaths as wearing their Rings at all times. Sauron dominated them because he made them, not because he had them in a vault somewhere (wouldn't he had to have been wearing the Nine himself if possession was necessary for control of the Nazgul?).

Also, Sauron DID possess the surviving rings of the Dwarven Seven that hadn't been destroyed by dragons, but there's no evidence that he used these to influence the Dwarves in any way, save as bribes.

I expect that if the Nazgul removed their Rings, they'd lose all power and die, which is why Sauron didn't keep passing them along to corrupt more and more Nazgul servants.

"Of what use is a philosopher who doesn't hurt anybody's feelings?" -Diogenes

The denizens of the eplaya is not representative of the population of black rock city. Don't expect very much from the regulars on eplaya. There's a few cool people, but the ones that post the most (dominate, drown out, etc) are a bunch of self aggrandizing blowhards. (I on the other hand, am royally humble. ha)

Welcome to eplaya, and brc, and ask all the stupid questions you want.