what!? no. just because he played with a broken finger doesn’t mean his finger wasn’t broken. he is always injured. whether he plays with the injury or not doesn’t change the fact that his body is injured. he has a fragile body – kind of like d.wade.

]]>By: money2longhttp://probasketballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/01/21/kobe-bryant-doesnt-like-how-nba-has-become-more-finesse-game/comment-page-1/#comment-269953
Thu, 23 Jan 2014 23:19:06 +0000http://probasketballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=692288#comment-269953you are a fool sir. it’s not picking a perosnal defintion of a word. the point that fool antoi was making was that kobe couldnt SURVIVE in the 80s because he isnt tough enough. that idea of TOUGH is to WITHSTAND and CONTINUE within that era. kobe has shown us that his TOUGHNESS can WITHSTAND the era. and that its where you and anti lose your logic because KOBE’S TOUGHNESS is a representation of his ability to PUSH THROUGH any obstacle injury-wise. the idea that kobe couldnt survive the era isnt a point of not getting injured. because if that is the case, kobe is injured NOW IN THIS ERA. if the idea of TOUGH was to make the point of surviving injury, how has kobe shown that he CAN NOT survive with an injury? the TOUGH factor in kobe’s case is that of pushing through the injury, hence kobe has shown us nothing in THIS ERA that would show us that he can not withstand an injury. why would an era change kobe’s ability to push through an injury? SMH AT YOU BOTH HAHAHHAHAHAH
]]>By: ogwhiteissachttp://probasketballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/01/21/kobe-bryant-doesnt-like-how-nba-has-become-more-finesse-game/comment-page-1/#comment-269845
Thu, 23 Jan 2014 20:14:55 +0000http://probasketballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=692288#comment-269845your argument makes zero sense. if his body was so fragile, he’d miss games. instead his tolerance for pain and his ability to play through that pain for 5 championship runs and becoming an all-time top 10 player wouldn’t change if he played in the 80s. Besides it was the 90s that got Stern to change the rules, and wouldn’t you know, Kobe was playing during the 90s.

Like I said, trolls gonna troll.

]]>By: money2longhttp://probasketballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/01/21/kobe-bryant-doesnt-like-how-nba-has-become-more-finesse-game/comment-page-1/#comment-269603
Thu, 23 Jan 2014 01:09:16 +0000http://probasketballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=692288#comment-269603Anti
You are very confused. Step back and blink your eyes multiple times.
You are letting your hate for Kobe blind you. You are so obsessed with trying to impart unto the world your negative point of view of Kobe Bryant that you are now confused as to what toughness is.

Kobe Bryant is tough. Why you want to continue to say anything opposite is a display of you wanting to continue to dig a hole of your own stupidity.

You still have not looked up the definition of durability vs toughness. Your idea that Kobe would not have survived the 80s because his body would suffer is not a analysis of his toughness. Rather, it is an analysis of Kobe’s durability.

The toughness aspect comes Into play when observing how he or anyone deals with whatever ailment they are dealing with. The tough guy is the one that can finish the race on a broken leg. The tough guy is the one who wants to do a laborious job with a high fever. The tough guy is the person who gets up after being knocked out and wants to keep fighting.

That is tough. You’re definition of tough is that if you get a fever or break your leg or get knocked out that you aren’t tough. No. You are tough if you can overcome those things. And Kobe has shown over his career that he won’t allow injuries to be too big of a deterrent to him doing his job. That is tough.

What Kobe has shown us during his career is that he would play with an injured finger, he’ll just wrap it up thick, change his form and go to work. Kobe has shown us yes, he’ll hurt his ankle or shin. He’ll just wrap it up and pace himself and let the adrenaline numb his pain while he plays. He is one of the best at coping with injuries.

That is tough.

So why is it that you think that if Kobe hypothetically got traded to the 80s, that all of a sudden that would stop ?

So what if Kobe gets a bruised rib while playing the bad boy pistons ? Does that mean you should be allowed to say he isn’t tough? Kobe wouldn’t be tough in that case if he went to the locker room after getting the injury, cried and said he doesn’t want to play anymore.

Cease the hate. Open your eyes. Kobe is one of the toughest players the nba has ever witnessed.

]]>By: antistratfordianhttp://probasketballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/01/21/kobe-bryant-doesnt-like-how-nba-has-become-more-finesse-game/comment-page-1/#comment-269553
Wed, 22 Jan 2014 21:58:28 +0000http://probasketballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=692288#comment-269553toughness of body material or tissue is not an objective issue. kobe’s body is not built for the kind of punishment he says he craves – it crumbles under much less stress than that.

about this charge taking thing though – i was wrong. kobe is afraid to take charges because he doesn’t want to get hurt. those are his words. what else is he afraid of? who knows. is he full of it here? he might be.

]]>By: dedalus13http://probasketballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/01/21/kobe-bryant-doesnt-like-how-nba-has-become-more-finesse-game/comment-page-1/#comment-269527
Wed, 22 Jan 2014 20:32:14 +0000http://probasketballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=692288#comment-269527As a 5’11” folk who was just able to dunk a few times in his early 20’s I am in total agreement with you lol.
Seriously, athletic ability is just part of the game, not all of it. Today rules certainly favour those guys, but skilled players will always have a place. The fancy thing now: If Bird suceeded in the 80’s, what would he be doing/averaging now in a no-hand-checking era?
]]>By: dedalus13http://probasketballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/01/21/kobe-bryant-doesnt-like-how-nba-has-become-more-finesse-game/comment-page-1/#comment-269518
Wed, 22 Jan 2014 20:12:38 +0000http://probasketballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=692288#comment-269518Your comment is misleading. The no-hand-checking rule which is in question here was enforced at the start of the 04-05 season. So Kobe faced that type of more physical perimeter defense for quite some years…
]]>By: dedalus13http://probasketballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/01/21/kobe-bryant-doesnt-like-how-nba-has-become-more-finesse-game/comment-page-1/#comment-269511
Wed, 22 Jan 2014 20:01:46 +0000http://probasketballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=692288#comment-269511Totally agree. To be honest, the 94 finals rate amongst my personal best in terms of intensity and emotion, and I couldn’t care less about the less-than-100-points-mark blah blah.
]]>By: dedalus13http://probasketballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/01/21/kobe-bryant-doesnt-like-how-nba-has-become-more-finesse-game/comment-page-1/#comment-269504
Wed, 22 Jan 2014 19:49:08 +0000http://probasketballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=692288#comment-269504tough (tf)
adj.tough·er, tough·est
1. Able to withstand great strain without tearing or breaking; strong and resilient: a tough all-weather fabric.
2. Hard to cut or chew: tough meat.
3. Physically hardy; rugged: tough mountaineers; a tough cop.
4. Severe; harsh: a tough winter.
5. a. Aggressive; pugnacious.
b. Inclined to violent or disruptive behavior; rowdy or rough: a tough street group.
6. Demanding or troubling; difficult: skipping the toughest questions.
7. Strong-minded; resolute: a tough negotiator.

im·be·cile (mb-sl, -sl)
n.
1. A stupid or silly person; a dolt.
2. A person whose mental acumen is well below par.
3. A person of moderate to severe mental retardation having a mental age of from three to seven years and generally being capable of some degree of communication and performance of simple tasks under supervision. The term belongs to a classification system no longer in use and is now considered offensive.
…
4. A person who doesn’t understand or include def #1) of tough in his own personal definition and urge people to check the dictionnary.

I am sure that the “mental” toughness of Kobe will be part of his legacy. I really wonder if his career would have been this long (and counting) in another era. There are 16 guys STILL playing in the first 100 of the all time career leaders list for games, and about 35 for the first 250 (like Earl Watson with 864 games; this corresponds to 10 1/2 seasons, not so long before the no-hand-checking era). So I am tempted to think that nowadays guys are enjoying longer careers, partly because of the softer play (technology and training changed a lot as well).

]]>By: bougin89http://probasketballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/01/21/kobe-bryant-doesnt-like-how-nba-has-become-more-finesse-game/comment-page-1/#comment-269462
Wed, 22 Jan 2014 16:47:23 +0000http://probasketballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=692288#comment-269462People can have their own opinions about Kobe but questioning his toughness is just ignorant. Like you mentioned, hitting those two free throws with a torn achilles isn’t just the definition of toughness, it’s the stuff of legendary toughness.

This coming from a non-Kobe fan.

]]>By: borderline1988http://probasketballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/01/21/kobe-bryant-doesnt-like-how-nba-has-become-more-finesse-game/comment-page-1/#comment-269434
Wed, 22 Jan 2014 14:36:21 +0000http://probasketballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=692288#comment-269434I couldn’t disagree with you more about skills. Players are more skilled than they have ever been – I don’t see how you can argue this fact. Guys like Keving Durant, Kyrie Irving, Dirk Nowitzki, Chris Paul – the individual skill these players have are off the charts…

What today’s players lack are certain fundamentals that were deemed to be crucial in the 80s and 90s, such as post footwork, gaining rebounding position, properly setting screens, properly rolling off screens, etc.
In place of fundamentally sound players, we are getting faster, more individually skilled athletes.

To me, there are pros and cons of both styles of players…as in most things in life, it’s better to have a balance. I’m happy that Erik Dampier type players don’t have a place in the league anymore…if you lack footspeed and cant shoot at all, you’re going to be exposed in today’s NBA. But it is unfortunate that so many young players seem to lack basic fundamentals and court awareness

]]>By: louhudson23http://probasketballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/01/21/kobe-bryant-doesnt-like-how-nba-has-become-more-finesse-game/comment-page-1/#comment-269420
Wed, 22 Jan 2014 09:19:46 +0000http://probasketballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=692288#comment-269420The whole conversation points out the difficulty of playing and succeeding in those days,as well. Skill sets and game play were at a premium,the ability to simply run around someone was not sufficient to succeed. And a host of players laughably deemed “unable” to play in today’s game are vindicated by this reality.
It’s basketball,not a track and field meet.Speed and jumping ability are always premium commodities,but they alone are not what makes a good player. Rule changes which turn this fact on its head and downplay skill sets and game play in favor of unvarnished raw ability are not good for the game,and have allowed far too many of the unskilled and unschooled to flourish,even as the game itself continues to lose appeal.
]]>By: borderline1988http://probasketballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/01/21/kobe-bryant-doesnt-like-how-nba-has-become-more-finesse-game/comment-page-1/#comment-269401
Wed, 22 Jan 2014 04:57:35 +0000http://probasketballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=692288#comment-269401Kobe’s right about perimeter players having an easier timescoring the ball than 20 years ago.

What he doesn’t mention though is that big men in today’s game are better shooters, passers, more athletic, better finishers, have better face-up games, etc. That’s a product of the new rules. Guys like Erik Dampier or Kendrick Perkins were a dime a dozen in the 1990s; those guys would barely get off the bench anymore in today’s NBA. It’s rare in today’s NBA to find a centre or PF that can’t shoot jumpers and bring baseline offensive skills to the table.

It’s true that the 1990s had some HOF post big men, but they would have been good in any era, and weren’t the product of the 90s, they were simply just very good.

I don;t mind this new style, we get to see more of a showcase of unbelievable basketball skill.

your idea of tough is very limited i see. and it’s further proof that you are blinding yourself from kobe’s toughness. let’s go with your, body being hurt toughness.

if we are looking at it in that sense, kobe is the toughest son of a gun in the game then. i think you are so blind and confused, that you lack the capacity to understand the difference between TOUGH and DURABLE.

what you’re analyzing is durability. that is not the issue here. the issue here is toughness. grab a dictionary before you continue reading because you will further look ignorant.

kobe may have had to fight through many ailments. the fact he is able to want to play through all of them is the definition of tough. his wrist, or his finger, or knee may have suffered some discomfort, however, that is not what toughness is judged by.

toughness is judged by one’s ability to overcome the burden. and kobe has shown that he has a pretty good resume of not letting nagging injuries get in his way.

also, he plays aggressive. even at this stage. kobe is a ferocious guy. he is by no means soft. which is the antonym of tough.

you’re actually trying to dismiss kobe’s dna because he doesn’t think it’s smart for him to take a charge ?

that’s all toughness is embodied by ?

anti, no offense..but you’re an imbecile.

]]>By: antistratfordianhttp://probasketballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/01/21/kobe-bryant-doesnt-like-how-nba-has-become-more-finesse-game/comment-page-1/#comment-269349
Wed, 22 Jan 2014 00:47:42 +0000http://probasketballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=692288#comment-269349No, we are judging the toughness of his muscles, tendons, ligaments and bones based on the fact that he’s always injured.

I didn’t say he was a wimp, I clearly said he was mentally tough (that must be why I typed “Kobe is tough mentally”). His body isn’t though. His body couldn’t handle the punishment of the 80s.

okay, so lemme get this straight. we are judging kobe bryant’s toughness based off charges ? hahahahha so close the book! the proof’s in the pudding. kobe dislikes charges, so he is a wimp. hahaha. your logic, or whatever reasoning tool you use, amazes me on a daily basis.

]]>By: asimonetti88http://probasketballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/01/21/kobe-bryant-doesnt-like-how-nba-has-become-more-finesse-game/comment-page-1/#comment-269324
Tue, 21 Jan 2014 23:44:12 +0000http://probasketballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=692288#comment-269324How is he injury prone if he has played in 73 or more games in 11 of the 16 82 game seasons during his career? You realize you’re making literally no sense.
]]>By: antistratfordianhttp://probasketballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/01/21/kobe-bryant-doesnt-like-how-nba-has-become-more-finesse-game/comment-page-1/#comment-269311
Tue, 21 Jan 2014 23:08:05 +0000http://probasketballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=692288#comment-269311uh…because he’s playing in a soft league… ??? did you forget what Kobe was talking about?
]]>By: antistratfordianhttp://probasketballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/01/21/kobe-bryant-doesnt-like-how-nba-has-become-more-finesse-game/comment-page-1/#comment-269306
Tue, 21 Jan 2014 22:53:52 +0000http://probasketballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=692288#comment-269306Kobe is tough mentally – his body isn’t tough though. It lets him down.

His own words:

I don’t take charges. I learned from my predecessors. Pippen had a [messed] up back taking charges. Bird had a [messed] up back taking charges. I said, ‘I’m not taking charges.’

He also said:

Shane [Battier] does a great job taking charges. Fish actually does a great job taking charges too. It’s a skill. It’s definitely a skill. There’s a difference between taking a charge and flopping.

So it’s not about him not wanting to flop. He’s just afraid of getting hurt. So much for him liking contact and physical play!

]]>By: savvybynaturehttp://probasketballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/01/21/kobe-bryant-doesnt-like-how-nba-has-become-more-finesse-game/comment-page-1/#comment-269303
Tue, 21 Jan 2014 22:50:36 +0000http://probasketballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=692288#comment-269303D. Wade broke his nose once in an All-Star game, which was probably the most physical defense he has seen in some time, lol. It’s also further evidence of what a d-bag d-wade is.
]]>By: antistratfordianhttp://probasketballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/01/21/kobe-bryant-doesnt-like-how-nba-has-become-more-finesse-game/comment-page-1/#comment-269302
Tue, 21 Jan 2014 22:46:38 +0000http://probasketballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=692288#comment-269302You need to read what I said more carefully – you missed the point. He wants to criticize his league as being soft, but then also say he didn’t benefit from the softness – that he would score the same in any era.

My point is that he is injury prone so if he played in a tougher league his body wouldn’t hold up as much.

]]>By: antistratfordianhttp://probasketballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/01/21/kobe-bryant-doesnt-like-how-nba-has-become-more-finesse-game/comment-page-1/#comment-269301
Tue, 21 Jan 2014 22:44:23 +0000http://probasketballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=692288#comment-269301I didn’t say anything about missing games – he’s played through a lot of injuries – but that doesn’t mean he isn’t injured. His body is fragile – it always has been. He couldn’t last in the 80’s.
]]>By: RavenzGunnerzhttp://probasketballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/01/21/kobe-bryant-doesnt-like-how-nba-has-become-more-finesse-game/comment-page-1/#comment-269292
Tue, 21 Jan 2014 22:17:44 +0000http://probasketballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=692288#comment-269292If the rule change resulted into the type of basketball we witnessed in the 2013 NBA Finals, then I am all for it.

I was sick n tired of all the low scoring games I was watching from the Pistons & Spurs in 2004-2007.

]]>By: asimonetti88http://probasketballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/01/21/kobe-bryant-doesnt-like-how-nba-has-become-more-finesse-game/comment-page-1/#comment-269288
Tue, 21 Jan 2014 21:41:45 +0000http://probasketballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=692288#comment-269288He’s averaging 14 PPG this season already.
]]>By: kclanton80http://probasketballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/01/21/kobe-bryant-doesnt-like-how-nba-has-become-more-finesse-game/comment-page-1/#comment-269285
Tue, 21 Jan 2014 21:34:26 +0000http://probasketballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=692288#comment-269285at what point in his career has Kobe played a physical brand of basketball or had to deal with overly physical defenders? Things were more physical before Kobe’s era but certainly not during his era.This is sour grapes from a guy who can no longer stay in front of anyone and wants to complain that he “can’t be physical”.

I can’t even recall Kobe ever even taking a hard foul…. maybe i’m wrong but if so, someone provide a link or something. Yeah he scored 81 points but the raptors just watched him pull up all night. No one even thought of giving him a hard shot to slow him down. This era may be less physical but he has certainly been a part of it and reaped the benefits the same as anyone.

]]>By: bougin89http://probasketballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/01/21/kobe-bryant-doesnt-like-how-nba-has-become-more-finesse-game/comment-page-1/#comment-269283
Tue, 21 Jan 2014 21:28:57 +0000http://probasketballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=692288#comment-269283That’s not accurate. The Lakers still have their 1st round pick this year.

The Suns got the Lakers first round picks in 2013 and 2015.

]]>By: spursareoldhttp://probasketballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/01/21/kobe-bryant-doesnt-like-how-nba-has-become-more-finesse-game/comment-page-1/#comment-269282
Tue, 21 Jan 2014 21:27:01 +0000http://probasketballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=692288#comment-269282If hand checking were still allowed, Kobe would average about 14 ppg at this age.
]]>By: asimonetti88http://probasketballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/01/21/kobe-bryant-doesnt-like-how-nba-has-become-more-finesse-game/comment-page-1/#comment-269277
Tue, 21 Jan 2014 21:11:20 +0000http://probasketballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=692288#comment-269277No they don’t.
]]>By: bougin89http://probasketballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/01/21/kobe-bryant-doesnt-like-how-nba-has-become-more-finesse-game/comment-page-1/#comment-269274
Tue, 21 Jan 2014 21:02:30 +0000http://probasketballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=692288#comment-269274The rule changes, especially the no hand checking, have resulted in lots of really tic tac fouls that are not called consistently, at all. The stars get the benefit of the doubt but other players don’t. That’s probably the most frustrating thing about the NBA.
]]>