I don't understand why Henry is opposed to a vestibule-granted that is a second hand statement, but if true, I don't understand the logic.

I tried winter camping in a SD Flashlight and with no vestibule in a storm, not a pleasant experience. The Hilleberg tunnel tents have huge vestibules and not that much added weight.

Now, a tunnel is a totally different design from a Tarptent, but if the goal is light weight, a reasonable alternative, from what I see online.

I briefly owned a Cloudburst, which I never used in the field, but did set up a couple of times. A winter version of that, with a big vestbule added to it, would seem to work for mild winter conditions.

Now, I may be wrong, but I would not expect a Tarptent to withstand the same weather as a four or five pole winter tent like a Mountain Tent, Trango or similar design.

I will state unequivocally that the only 4-season model(s) you will see from us will be double-wall. I don't like to be cold and single-wall shelters are just too cold for me in cold weather. Not that double-wall shelters are exactly warm in cold weather but they're warmer than single-wall and every degree helps. YMMV.

Now, can you all please just let this thread die with peace and dignity...

When I look at the photos I can't tell if there are any tie outs to the poles on the tent sides. My guess is not as I imagine that you would adjust the pole angle if/when the silnylon sags. It would add some structural strength and limit any side wall collapse from wind and condensation. Also, being that i do not use treking poles; what kind of poles will be offerred and what will be the weight and length of the poles?

Overall I think it's a very good design. I like how the footbox is designed and that the apex is off-centered on the length side giving a steep wall for your head. I know in my SMD Lunar Solo that on many occassions the silnylon sags to the point it's almost touching my head and when you get up you come in contact with the tent. With condensation on a cold morning it can be very invigorating.

I'll try to get the discussion back on topic....When I look at the photos I can't tell if there are any tie outs to the poles on the tent sides. My guess is not as I imagine that you would adjust the pole angle if/when the silnylon sags. It would add some structural strength and limit any side wall collapse from wind and condensation. Also, being that i do not use treking poles; what kind of poles will be offerred and what will be the weight and length of the poles?Erik

Yes, there are/will be tieouts/wraps to the poles in two locations along each side to pull the fabric out. Also, the strap connector to the trekking pole handle on each side has a strap tension adjuster so that you can tighten/loosen the distance from base to apex to match your pole length and account for stretch.

The tyvek version has almost no stretch and adjustment, once pitched, is very minimal.

We'll offer some sort of alternative pole/poles. Not sure yet of details. The pole length for the dual poles setup is 135 cm.

I'm really intrigued by your Sublite design. I am wondering if you are considering how Pacerpoles might fit into your design. I know they are a niche product in an already niche market, but they do specify an option of an aluminum link-piece to create an A-frame setup. This big difference is that the poles would be used upright (tips in the ground) rather than upside down (tips in the sky). I'm not sure if the angle is adjustable, so I don't even know if it would work for your design. It just struck me that the Sublite might be the perfect application for the Pacerpole A-frame setup.

I'm really intrigued by your Sublite design. I am wondering if you are considering how Pacerpoles might fit into your design. I know they are a niche product in an already niche market, but they do specify an option of an aluminum link-piece to create an A-frame setup. This big difference is that the poles would be used upright (tips in the ground) rather than upside down (tips in the sky). I'm not sure if the angle is adjustable, so I don't even know if it would work for your design. It just struck me that the Sublite might be the perfect application for the Pacerpole A-frame setup.

I don't have any Pacerpoles here to try out but I see no reason why they wouldn't work. The trekking pole handle adapters at ground level should work with anything. And the Sublite apex trekking pole tip adapter clips into a loop in the canopy so it's removable and replaceable with anything that lifts the canopy from above. I can't find any diagram of the Pacerpole A-frame setup but I see no reason why you couldn't clip into it if you want to use the Pacerpoles handle side up.

Very cool Henry, thanks for the info. I've just bought a pair of Pacerpoles being delivered today; if I decide to keep them, I'll buy the attachment accessory, measure the A-frame angle, and post some photos.

The Pacer Poles have a molded handle that may not grip or be damaged on the ground.(?) I'll check that out when I'll go into town next. Henry, you could always ask Brian , he has them.FrancoBTW, I use my pole with the handle up on my Contrail, but I cannot remember why now...