Please go get help. Deportation is not murder nor gene selection nor selective breeding. You're hysterical. Also who said anything about having to deport anyone. If they can't work or collect benefits then they self-deport. Just passing laws like the one in Arizona has been showing to dramatically raise the rates of self-deportation. Enforcing current law, creating modern means of checking documentation and finally making it so that non-citizens cannot collect, apply for and utilize benefits on behalf of citizens (aka illegal aliens cannot apply for benefits to which their American children are entitled for them) and 90% of the problem is solved.

It need not be a change in the law. It can simply be challenged in court until the proper judges and the case law they generate are found. Isn't that the liberal solution to crafting legislation?

This is all very similar to the repatriations of the Mexican's in the 30's, or it would be if certain people here were to get their way. Good luck getting rid of those 15 million by effectively ruining their lives, at least you don't claim hollow religious claims of family values like NoahJ and jazzguru though.

"Islam is as dangerous in a man as rabies in a dog"~ Sir Winston Churchill. We are nurturing a nightmare that will haunt our children, and kill theirs.

It's so shockingly insensitive it's mind boggling even from him, then you add on this and it's well dishonest too, though that's not a surprise-

"Despite his harsh words, Beck actually has some involvement in political youth camps himself. His 9/12 Project which aims to unite Americans as much as they were on the day following the Sept. 11 attacks has been running camps for kids this summer. The Utah camp, for example, seeks to provide "heritage-based education for youth, with special focus on the Constitution and the Founding generation.""

"Islam is as dangerous in a man as rabies in a dog"~ Sir Winston Churchill. We are nurturing a nightmare that will haunt our children, and kill theirs.

So you'd rather get them all back to Mexico somehow than change the laws to enable them to become legal citizens?

You remind me of the white Californians back in the 30's. The last word from me for a good bit of time to you, "CRUEL". I don't know how you and jazzguru can look yourselves in the mirror knowing the harm you'd cause those families.

"Islam is as dangerous in a man as rabies in a dog"~ Sir Winston Churchill. We are nurturing a nightmare that will haunt our children, and kill theirs.

So you'd rather get them all back to Mexico somehow than change the laws to enable them to become legal citizens?

You remind me of the white Californians back in the 30's. The last word from me for a good bit of time to you, "CRUEL". I don't know how you and jazzguru can look yourselves in the mirror knowing the harm you'd cause those families.

(just not worth arguing with you)

NoahJ"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi

It is obvious that the policy of abortion-on-demand favoured overwhelmingly by the left is a deliberate, calculated policy of dealing with poor and notably, black population increases. This is well documented in history and isn't even that well hidden in modern times.

Yeah, that's it...

You're super intelligent guy!!!!

Honestly, that's about the most absurd fucking bullshit piece of fabricated excuse for being anti-choice that I've ever seen in my life.

Yeh, right, I'm pro-choice because I deliberately, calculatedly plot to deal with poor and notably, black population increases. And the majority of pro-choice advocates also have this in mind. How clever you are.

If anyone here supports eugenics it's likely to be jazzguru. He's stated here that he wants to bus all illegal Mexican immigrants back to Mexico. That's as close to eugenics as any other post I've read here, even if it's not strictly eugenics. I'm sure jazzguru would argue he just wants to uphold the law, but it sure smells funny.

I don't remember specifically saying that, so I'd appreciate a link to the post where I said that. Thanks.

Regardless, my views on immigration (and on many other things) have changed significantly over the past year or so. In fact, I believe the state is more to blame for our problems regarding illegal immigration than the illegal immigrants themselves, and I do not support mass deportation, as it would only serve to further embolden the police state and break up families.

Also, it takes quite a leap in logic to equate wanting to enforce immigration law with eugenics.

Anyone who'd round up and ship back to Mexico 15 million people at the barrel of a gun, deserves to be focused on here as being a likely candidate for supporting eugenics, even if they argue all they want is to uphold the law. That kind of coldness is what defines eugenics to most people. It's horrific.

Please answer me this NoahJ. Do you support jazzguru's position?

I wonder if you or jazzguru support changing the law as was recently pushed by some repubs, so that if a child is born in the US to illegal parents that child would not be a legal citizen. Care to both answer that too?

That is not my position. You would do well to ask me what it is before digging up posts that are months old and claiming I still believe as I did back then.

Some opinions change as more knowledge and experience are gained. At least some of mine do.

A manifesto, written by Breivik, was also discovered. The 1500 page document, entitled “A European Declaration of Independence”, reveals a troubling ideology. “Let us fight together with Israel,” Breivik writes, “with our Zionist brothers against all anti-Zionists.” In a section headed “Controversial principles”, the manifesto continues:

Supports the deportation of all Muslims from Europe Pro-Israel (pro-Zionism/Israeli nationalism, supports the deportation of Muslims from theWest Bank and the Gaza strip) Pro-Boer/Afrikaner (supporting a partition of South Africa into two parts).

The section also lists China, India, the Phillipines and Sri Lanka as countries that all Muslims should be deported from. Above the section is a quote from John Law:

“Before we can do anything, there must be a we.”

It looks as if this person was "inspired" (if that is an appropriate term?!!) by the likes of the neoconservative contingent in Washington DC which has had a massive role to play in formulating US foreign policy, especially in the Middle East. Breivik has already indicated that he is an admirer of Islamophobic blogs from racists like David Horowitz, Michael Ledeen and Daniel Pipes, amongst many others.

We the public deserve an honest complete review of the facts with scientific interpretation and implications as to what really happened on 9/11. Bill Binney, Former senior technical director, NSA.

So you think the outcome of the abortion-on-demand policy is accidental?

It is a deliberate policy to reduce the numbers of the poor and black in America.
It is a genocide promoted by liberal elites, who would prefer the rest of us not to point out the inconvenient truths about their aims.

This just isn't true. I know you read it, and I know your friends here believe this is true, but it isn't.

Go and talk to liberals, and ask them. Just do it. In your heart of hearts, you know that liberals aren't really this evil. I beg you to listen to your better self.

Abortion is real, and sad, but in the real world, there is no deliberate programme of abortion targeted at anyone. If this were actually true, there would be an international outcry and riots in America. Just think for a moment. Liberals are not Nazis.

I imagine, when Anders Beiring Breivik was shooting those 68 children and teenagers, he thought he was shooting people who were going to grow up to people capable of eugenics. He read lies, like this, and believed them.

I beg you, stop contributing to a world where this kind of terrible lie is believed. It isn't true. You're making the world a worse place by writing this. I beg you to stop.

This is all very similar to the repatriations of the Mexican's in the 30's, or it would be if certain people here were to get their way. Good luck getting rid of those 15 million by effectively ruining their lives, at least you don't claim hollow religious claims of family values like NoahJ and jazzguru though.

The one thing you never hear in the Mexican immigration debate is what's good for Mexico.

The country is literally tearing itself apart, in no small part due to the fact that the most ambitious, hard-working citizens have been lured to the U.S. to work as cheap labour.

Canada isn't affected by the U.S. border breakdown, but I have no desire to see a whole country emptied of its future because Americans don't like manual labour. The U.S. needs to seal its border from illegal crossings, assist in stopping the cartels' reign of terror and allow Mexico to rebuild as a nation.

Quote:

Originally Posted by sammi jo

Anders Breivik is also an ardent supporter of "Zionism".

It looks as if this person was "inspired" (if that is an appropriate term?!!) by the likes of the neoconservative contingent in Washington DC which has had a massive role to play in formulating US foreign policy, especially in the Middle East. Breivik has already indicated that he is an admirer of Islamophobic blogs from racists like David Horowitz, Michael Ledeen and Daniel Pipes, amongst many others.

More likely he just hated muslims and decided that the enemy of his enemy was his friend. Occam's razor.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mumbo Jumbo

Some things are true, and some things aren't.

This just isn't true. I know you read it, and I know your friends here believe this is true, but it isn't.

Go and talk to liberals, and ask them. Just do it. In your heart of hearts, you know that liberals aren't really this evil. I beg you to listen to your better self.

Abortion is real, and sad, but in the real world, there is no deliberate programme of abortion targeted at anyone. Liberals are not Nazis.

I imagine, when Anders Beiring Breivik was shooting those 68 children and teenagers, he thought he was shooting people who were going to grow up to people capable of eugenics. He read lies, like this, and believed them.

I beg you, stop contributing to a world where this kind of terrible lie is believed. It isn't true. You're making the world a worse place by writing this. I beg you to stop.

It's not a lie. There is no denying that the promotion of abortion is one of the top priorities of the left. Almost every argument about U.S. budget cuts comes down to Planned Parenthood funding, which liberals will not abandon for anything.

There is also no denying that the primary targets of the abortion-on-demand policy are poorer Americans, especially those from Black and Latino communities. Abortion-on demand isn't for white suburban middle class housewives and we all know it.

You are asking me to disregard Sanger's well-known and documented intentions, and believe that her disciples continue to promote practices that they know are genocidal to certain 'undesirable' communities in the U.S.

But they are just doing this for random unknown reasons, just to help out, and it has nothing to do with a campaign of population control and the oppression of the poor. Right.

It's not a lie. There is no denying that the promotion of abortion is one of the top priorities of the left. Almost every argument about U.S. budget cuts comes down to Planned Parenthood funding, which liberals will not abandon for anything.

First of all, you're lying.

When you say that "the promotion of abortion" is a top priority of the left, you're either flat out lying, or you don't even attempt to understand the left's position on this.

When you advocate the unrestricted public funding of a practice, you are promoting that practice in society.

How you personally feel about the practice is irrelevant. You are still promoting it.

We also want unrestricted public funding of sex education, contraception, and Plan B...all the stuff that would prevent the last resort scenario: abortion. No one is promoting abortion as a primary, secondary, or even tertiary means of birth control. No one.

It's your side that doesn't want to fund or teach the former so that the latter is inevitable.

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” -Sagan

We also want unrestricted public funding of sex education, contraception, and Plan B...all the stuff that would prevent the last resort scenario: abortion.

Yes, you want a completely sexually liberated society, free of any moral underpinnings that would restrict your personal behaviour. Everyone gets to have sex with anyone, anywhere, anytime. Use technology (contraception, Plan B) as necessary to accomplish your new moral order. And you want to teach this to ever younger children in schools, so their parents cannot get the chance to instill values that go against your new moral order. (And If kids get knocked up in school while practicing your liberation theology, let the counsellor take them for an abortion without telling their parents.)

Then you pretend that regular abortion would not be a major outcome of such a grotesque society.

The one thing you never hear in the Mexican immigration debate is what's good for Mexico.

The country is literally tearing itself apart, in no small part due to the fact that the most ambitious, hard-working citizens have been lured to the U.S. to work as cheap labour.

Canada isn't affected by the U.S. border breakdown, but I have no desire to see a whole country emptied of its future because Americans don't like manual labour. The U.S. needs to seal its border from illegal crossings, assist in stopping the cartels' reign of terror and allow Mexico to rebuild as a nation.

More likely he just hated muslims and decided that the enemy of his enemy was his friend. Occam's razor.

It's not a lie. There is no denying that the promotion of abortion is one of the top priorities of the left. Almost every argument about U.S. budget cuts comes down to Planned Parenthood funding, which liberals will not abandon for anything.

There is also no denying that the primary targets of the abortion-on-demand policy are poorer Americans, especially those from Black and Latino communities. Abortion-on demand isn't for white suburban middle class housewives and we all know it.
.

Bonus: Statistics confirm that more sex education leads to fewer abortions. How do you like them apples? It's time for you to join the fucking 21st century.

They won't. They are willful ignoramuses. Abstinence only sex education leads to more abortions. There is a direct correlation between access to proper sex education and reducing the number of abortions. Will they care? No. Their ignorant world view has no room for facts.

(And If kids get knocked up in school while practicing your liberation theology, let the counsellor take them for an abortion without telling their parents.)

The fact that more kids get knocked up in schools that don't teach proper sex ed than in schools that do calls bullshit on your premise.

Are you aware that proper sex education, in addition to teaching about the biological mechanism of pregnancy, methods of birth control and disease avoidance, also teaches, without exception, that abstinence is the best choice to avoid these problems? Do you fucking care?

Let's take this to another thread today, since we're really far out from the Norway discussion and that situation is still ongoing.
To the extent that I helped with the derail after the eugenics thing came up, I apologize.

Anders Beiring Brevik is a self-described "conservative nationalist" who massacred 68 teenagers on the Norwegian island of Utøya, because they were "Category A cultural Marxists" and "multicultural traitors" who would presumably grow up aid the Islamisation of Europe. According to his manifesto, the the principle aim of his "operation" is to stop this.

I have a fun game!

Let's play...

ANDERS or TRUMPTMAN?

I'll take a quote from 1,500-page Brevik's manifesto, and a quote from one of Trumptman's 13,000 posts here on this forum, and you have to guess...

ANDERS BEIRING BREVIK (who massacred 68 teenagers) or TRUMPTMAN?

Quote:

The native population has a birthrate as low as 1.2 in countries like Italy and Spain, countries that previously were Catholic and had a birthrate that reflected that fact. Instead the incoming Islamic immigrants have a birthrate that is well above replacement level and is often 2-300% higher than the native population

ANDERS? Or TRUMPTMAN?

Quote:

Without a fundamental change in our social structures we will be unable to meet the minimum requirement for a sustainable fertility rate: 2,1.

ANDERS? Or TRUMPTMAN?

Quote:

There is no reason to focus on Norway alone. The entire EU, if majority Muslim or even Muslim controlled would represent a nuclear capably country of well over 800 million people. Claiming that history is a factor that can overcome demography is patently ridiculous. Those who have the kids make the rules. Culture is only one generation deep and can change quickly. The native population of Europe has a birthrate that is far below replacement levels.

ANDERS? Or TRUMPTMAN?

Quote:

Call me when [Europe] isn't tolerating Sharia courts and looking to have their decisions made legally binding. Call me when France isn't having to complain and legislate about the increasing number of women wearing burqas and when the whole continent is watching Mosques being built. ... The groups that do not assimilate and seek separation will follow that belief to its conclusion...

Brievik is the archetypal neoconservative, Had he been a US citizen, his policies and writing abilities would have qualified him as an intern in the 2001 Bush Administration! He could have gone pretty far in 8 years. Look at entry #5.. MEMRI.. the Islamophobic organization which provides almost all the US corporate media copy and translations re. news from the Middle East.. including the obvious lies about Iraq.

His ideological sources map IDENTICALLY onto the PNAC, FPI and other neocon think tanks. Terrorists... birds of a feather.

We the public deserve an honest complete review of the facts with scientific interpretation and implications as to what really happened on 9/11. Bill Binney, Former senior technical director, NSA.

Anders Beiring Brevik is a self-described "conservative nationalist" who massacred 68 teenagers on the Norwegian island of Utøya, because they were "Category A cultural Marxists" and "multicultural traitors" who would presumably grow up aid the Islamisation of Europe. According to his manifesto, the the principle aim of his "operation" is to stop this.

I have a fun game!

Let's play...

ANDERS or TRUMPTMAN?

Anders gets top billing and an entire paragraph describing him and I get what.... NOTHING.

Dude, seriously, nothing for an intro? This game sucks.

Quote:

I'll take a quote from 1,500-page Brevik's manifesto, and a quote from one of Trumptman's 13,000 posts here on this forum, and you have to guess...

ANDERS BEIRING BREVIK (who massacred 68 teenagers) or TRUMPTMAN?

Anders gets a subtitle next to his name and again I get... NOTHING!

I demand you at least put how many teenagers I massacred or something like that. Be fair!

Quote:

ANDERS? Or TRUMPTMAN?

I'd play but I have a bit of an advantage and I also can't pay myself royalties for use of my words whereas you can.

Quote:

COMING NEXT:

'ANDERS? Or TRUMPTMAN?: Liberals are Mentally Ill!' Edition!!!!

If this is going to be a series then I'll want even higher royalty rates for use of my words and images for additional properties. What cut of the iPod app do I get?

Quote:

Edit: I'll supply the answers later.

Supply some links too. People will love being able to go back and read even longer passages of what I wrote. Look how you can't resist doing it yourself.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mumbo Jumbo

That Anders Beiring Breivik and trumptman share identical beliefs on European Islamicisation is beyond question, and a matter for trumptman to reflect on.

Wait 'til you get to the 'LIBERALS ARE PSYCHOTIC' edition. It's word for fucking word.

Is it beyond question? BTW this is fun to do. I did the same thing once as an exercise for a class using quotes from Newt Gingrich and Martin Luther King Jr. It isn't hard to do.

When do we get to play the game where we guess who's handle means missionary who founded a group of assassins?

Has been discussed, argued and actually discredited mostly on these forums. But thanks for trying to link (however precariously) the American right and conservatives to the Oslo news. I am sure that Tonton will appreciate it as well. \

NoahJ"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi

Has been discussed, argued and actually discredited mostly on these forums. But thanks for trying to link (however precariously) the American right and conservatives to the Oslo news. I am sure that Tonton will appreciate it as well. \

It's hardly old news and in light of what's happened it's certainly relevant.

How was it discredited? What was discredited?

"Islam is as dangerous in a man as rabies in a dog"~ Sir Winston Churchill. We are nurturing a nightmare that will haunt our children, and kill theirs.

"As Mehdi Hasan, editor of the New Statesman, has pointed out, figures compiled by Europol, the European police agency, suggest that the threat of Islamist terrorism is minimal compared with "ethno-nationalist" and "separatist" terrorism. According to Europol, in 2006, one out of 498 documented terrorist attacks across Europe could be classed as "Islamist"; in 2007, the figure rose to just four out of 583 - less than one per cent of the total. By contrast, 517 attacks across the continent were claimed by - or attributed to - nationalist or separatist terrorist groups, such as ETA in Spain."
~ http://english.aljazeera.net/indepth...841769458.html

"Islam is as dangerous in a man as rabies in a dog"~ Sir Winston Churchill. We are nurturing a nightmare that will haunt our children, and kill theirs.

We also want unrestricted public funding of sex education, contraception, and Plan B...all the stuff that would prevent the last resort scenario: abortion. No one is promoting abortion as a primary, secondary, or even tertiary means of birth control. No one.

It's your side that doesn't want to fund or teach the former so that the latter is inevitable.

False.

I can only please one person per day. Today is not your day. Tomorrow doesn't look good either.

It's hardly old news and in light of what's happened it's certainly relevant.

How was it discredited? What was discredited?

It's old news because the link itself reads October of 2010. It was related to the Giffords shooting and attempting to link unrelated events back then (just as you are doing now for example.)

Hands, when you link to all these articles, especially older ones with no real news being reported but merely an attempt to paint parties with ominous tones, don't you ever think about what is really being said or alleged?

The article claims that an investigation uncovered "links." The proof of the links was that the organizations had somehow "made contact" with each other.

What does this really mean? Does it mean one guy in the EDL sent one guy in a tea party group an email? It notes that their website links to certain URL's.

Really talk about paranoia. Per your own reasoning you must be a terrorist threat! You've got deep "links" to "tea party elements". I mean you are a member of the same forum and thus must be in total agreement with them and are at the beck and call of whatever nefarious aims they are going to engage in. We know they are nefarious because we used the word nefarious even while not stating what they are, who they might effect or well any other details. NEFARIOUS THOUGH.

It's a pretty damn scary link when you think about it. They used the word linked. Contact was made for goodness sakes. Worse still someone was IN TOUCH! A website was RELAUNCHED.

Holy COW! How can this stand!!!!!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hands Sandon

"As Mehdi Hasan, editor of the New Statesman, has pointed out, figures compiled by Europol, the European police agency, suggest that the threat of Islamist terrorism is minimal compared with "ethno-nationalist" and "separatist" terrorism. According to Europol, in 2006, one out of 498 documented terrorist attacks across Europe could be classed as "Islamist"; in 2007, the figure rose to just four out of 583 - less than one per cent of the total. By contrast, 517 attacks across the continent were claimed by - or attributed to - nationalist or separatist terrorist groups, such as ETA in Spain."
~ http://english.aljazeera.net/indepth...841769458.html

This link is laughable. It notes first that propaganda is violence. In otherwords certain parties can be arrested for speech or having engaged in speech and then having certain materials, say a knife or sword as noted in the article.

Why are all the "nationalists" arrested while the "Islamists" are not? Simple, because one type of speech is classified as hate and the other is not. Don't forget to note that one of the reason the number of attacks are so high though is because of leftist groups. They engage in all manner of actual violence, not threatened violence per Europol.

Old, old news.
Has been discussed, argued and actually discredited mostly on these forums. But thanks for trying to link (however precariously) the American right and conservatives to the Oslo news. I am sure that Tonton will appreciate it as well. \

The American right's link to the Oslo bomber has been firmly established. A significant proportion of the "inspiration" for the 1500 page manifesto is derived from US hardliner conservative sources, amongst traditional European conservatism. Breivik's position... glorification of Israel, hatred of Muslims/Arabs, liberals and multiculturalism is a violent reflection of the positions taken by the Heritage Foundation, the Foreign Policy Institute/PNAC, AIPAC, and the US militia movement... with a little bit of KKK thrown into the bile soup.

We the public deserve an honest complete review of the facts with scientific interpretation and implications as to what really happened on 9/11. Bill Binney, Former senior technical director, NSA.

"As Mehdi Hasan, editor of the New Statesman, has pointed out, figures compiled by Europol, the European police agency, suggest that the threat of Islamist terrorism is minimal compared with "ethno-nationalist" and "separatist" terrorism. According to Europol, in 2006, one out of 498 documented terrorist attacks across Europe could be classed as "Islamist"; in 2007, the figure rose to just four out of 583 - less than one per cent of the total. By contrast, 517 attacks across the continent were claimed by - or attributed to - nationalist or separatist terrorist groups, such as ETA in Spain."
~ http://english.aljazeera.net/indepth...841769458.html

Try telling that to "Middle America"!

"Facts don't matter any more; they make them up just to have their war".

We the public deserve an honest complete review of the facts with scientific interpretation and implications as to what really happened on 9/11. Bill Binney, Former senior technical director, NSA.

In it, she's swimming away from a conservative nationalist. who is shooting at her, because he thinks she is "cultural Marxist", and because he believes that white culture is under threat from an Islamicised Europe.

The American right's link to the Oslo bomber has been firmly established. A significant proportion of the "inspiration" for the 1500 page manifesto is derived from US hardliner conservative sources, amongst traditional European conservatism. Breivik's position... glorification of Israel, hatred of Muslims/Arabs, liberals and multiculturalism is a violent reflection of the positions taken by the Heritage Foundation, the Foreign Policy Institute/PNAC, AIPAC, and the US militia movement... with a little bit of KKK thrown into the bile soup.

He may have done so. But the link is one way overall. He took what he wanted, wove it into a crazy quilt and then wrapped it around himself. Find one person that actually says what he did was ok, on either side of the political spectrum. That person, if they are in power, should be removed immediately.

NoahJ"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi