Without knowing all of the facts, we don't know who is the real idiot here. And since new information comes out everyday... we may never know all of the facts

And this is why I stand by my original post that they are both at fault. Richie needs to know when to stop and Martin should not have gone public with it.

And maybe the coaches should have addressed the toughness issue directly with the player instead of getting crazy-ass Richie Incognito to toughen him up. And maybe Ireland shouldn't have told Martin's representatives that Martin should resolve the issue with violence.

Without knowing all of the facts, we don't know who is the real idiot here. And since new information comes out everyday... we may never know all of the facts

And this is why I stand by my original post that they are both at fault. Richie needs to know when to stop and Martin should not have gone public with it.

And maybe the coaches should have addressed the toughness issue directly with the player instead of getting crazy-ass Richie Incognito to toughen him up. And maybe Ireland shouldn't have told Martin's representatives that Martin should resolve the issue with violence.

Without knowing all of the facts, we don't know who is the real idiot here. And since new information comes out everyday... we may never know all of the facts

And this is why I stand by my original post that they are both at fault. Richie needs to know when to stop and Martin should not have gone public with it.

And maybe the coaches should have addressed the toughness issue directly with the player instead of getting crazy-ass Richie Incognito to toughen him up. And maybe Ireland shouldn't have told Martin's representatives that Martin should resolve the issue with violence.

So its possible he did not ask that or it was something different and had been taken out of context?

So it may not be a lack of leadership?

It is possible that no coach asked Incognito to toughen up Martin. Anything seems possible as this story changes on a daily, even hourly basis.

But as of right now, the report is that someone on the coaching staff asked Incognito to toughen up Martin.

Very possible that whoever asked this, did so with the intent that Incognito take Martin under his wing and mentor him and very possible that Incognito took it too far.

At the end of the day, if any coach asked this, I consider it a lack of leadership. You don't delegate player development. That's the purpose of coaching, to develop players and build a team. And you don't delegate something like that to Richie Incognito, who has a long history of wild behavior.

And whether the coach that asked this was Philbin or someone under him, he is still ultimately responsible, as the head coach, for how his ship (the lockeroom) is run.

Even Philbin won't argue that point. In fact, he takes ownership himself.

I guess ultimately, it needs to be determined if in fact Incognito was asked to toughen Martin up.

In that case, I'd put the majority of the blame on the Dolphins organization for how they run their ship.

So its possible he did not ask that or it was something different and had been taken out of context?

So it may not be a lack of leadership?

It is possible that no coach asked Incognito to toughen up Martin. Anything seems possible as this story changes on a daily, even hourly basis.

But as of right now, the report is that someone on the coaching staff asked Incognito to toughen up Martin.

Very possible that whoever asked this, did so with the intent that Incognito take Martin under his wing and mentor him and very possible that Incognito took it too far.

At the end of the day, if any coach asked this, I consider it a lack of leadership. You don't delegate player development. That's the purpose of coaching, to develop players and build a team. And you don't delegate something like that to Richie Incognito, who has a long history of wild behavior.

And whether the coach that asked this was Philbin or someone under him, he is still ultimately responsible, as the head coach, for how his ship (the lockeroom) is run.

Even Philbin won't argue that point. In fact, he takes ownership himself.

I guess ultimately, it needs to be determined if in fact Incognito was asked to toughen Martin up.

In that case, I'd put the majority of the blame on the Dolphins organization for how they run their ship.

At the end of the day, if any coach asked this, I consider it a lack of leadership. You don't delegate player development. That's the purpose of coaching, to develop players and build a team. And you don't delegate something like that to Richie Incognito, who has a long history of wild behavior.

Isn't that the entire purpose of having team captains and a leadership council....Players take other players under their wing to teach them the ropes and toughness is part of becoming a pro..

Ritchie has obviously shown to be a team leader that players look up to regardless of what has happened before..None of these players report seeing that side of him....

This story really is crap...After reading the Murtha view of it really proves that imo

At the end of the day, if any coach asked this, I consider it a lack of leadership. You don't delegate player development. That's the purpose of coaching, to develop players and build a team. And you don't delegate something like that to Richie Incognito, who has a long history of wild behavior.

Isn't that the entire purpose of having team captains and a leadership council....Players take other players under their wing to teach them the ropes and toughness is part of becoming a pro..

Ritchie has obviously shown to be a team leader that players look up to regardless of what has happened before..None of these players report seeing that side of him....

This story really is crap...After reading the Murtha view of it really proves that imo

Richie should be back next week and the team should stand behind him.

You mean the Murtha with holes big enough you could drive a Mack truck through them? Call me oblivious, but how does someone who was cut 15 months ago know of incidents on the team past the time his employment was terminated? Either someone is feeding him stuff (read: Incognito) or he's a lying sack of s**t with a grievance against Martin for taking his roster spot because he couldn't be depended on to stay healthy enough to play.

Myrtha is just one voice in a chorus of many saying the same thing. Most of the locker room has come out in support of Incognito and said the same things. It is a consistent pattern....not just a data point.

Myrtha is just one voice in a chorus of many saying the same thing. Most of the locker room has come out in support of Incognito and said the same things. It is a consistent pattern....not just a data point.

Maybe in sentiment, but I was specifically referring to the Vegas trip (of which he would have had no knowledge) and the voice-mail (come on, when was the last time someone used the phrase "half-n****r" as a term of endearment or a joking manner?).

Also, absent in the chorus is the word of the rookies and 2nd-years (sans Tannehill, who in my opinion should have pursued a theft charge against Incognito for stealing his credit card). I wonder why.

And also, with Murtha's "eye contact" remark regarding Martin, I'm even more shocked at Ireland's behavior, considering he is in perfect position to know what someone who exhibits "lack of eye contact" is going through. IMHO he's just as bad as Joe Scarborough in being oblivious. I know, whether one who is not neurotypical should put himself in an NFL locker room should be a question to ask, but once that person answers the question, it's not just incumbent on him to adjust to the culture, but also on the locker room to "get" him and know when to stop.

Myrtha is just one voice in a chorus of many saying the same thing. Most of the locker room has come out in support of Incognito and said the same things. It is a consistent pattern....not just a data point.

Maybe in sentiment, but I was specifically referring to the Vegas trip (of which he would have had no knowledge) and the voice-mail (come on, when was the last time someone used the phrase "half-n****r" as a term of endearment or a joking manner?).

Also, absent in the chorus is the word of the rookies and 2nd-years (sans Tannehill, who in my opinion should have pursued a theft charge against Incognito for stealing his credit card). I wonder why.

And also, with Murtha's "eye contact" remark regarding Martin, I'm even more shocked at Ireland's behavior, considering he is in perfect position to know what someone who exhibits "lack of eye contact" is going through. IMHO he's just as bad as Joe Scarborough in being oblivious. I know, whether one who is not neurotypical should put himself in an NFL locker room should be a question to ask, but once that person answers the question, it's not just incumbent on him to adjust to the culture, but also on the locker room to "get" him and know when to stop.

Again, you don't hang out or run with that kind of crowd. I once did. I can tell you no-term was off limits if the bond of the friendship was strong. Maybe its a cultural thing, but I find too many elitists who simply just don't understand it. Fire up some M&M .. the white guy drops N bombs all the time and he gets away with it because he's an "honorary" black guy

So let me get this straight to summarize: A 6'5 315 pound man loses his cool, flips his lunch tray, walks out on his team like a big pussycat; turns to the media to amplify his whining gripes that he was being picked on/bullied.

The more this goes on the more I DON'T understand this nonsense. We are talking about a GROWN MAN; a monster sized individual playing in the NFL and he cannot stand up to people on his own team??

His nickname is BIG WEIRDO.....hmmmm, that doesn't fit him now does it? This is all a bunch of hogwash and should have NEVER made it to the media and now legal to get resolved. I am also sorry that I DON'T BUY it at all that this could not have been handled internally.

I mean, let's say he hit a breaking point and got pissed off, why wouldn't he just scream out loud to leave me the "F" alone??? Again, this is a freaking huge mountain of a man that played major college football; in his 2nd NFL season that WALKED OUT in a hissy.....

All my opinion, but this has gone way over board. I hope he goes and takes a Betty Crocker class because he sure doesn't belong in the NFL anymore and based on all of his teammates comments, I highly doubt they will want his snitching self back in that locker room.

Last edited by Finhead34 on Thu Nov 07, 2013 7:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Myrtha is just one voice in a chorus of many saying the same thing. Most of the locker room has come out in support of Incognito and said the same things. It is a consistent pattern....not just a data point.

Maybe in sentiment, but I was specifically referring to the Vegas trip (of which he would have had no knowledge) and the voice-mail (come on, when was the last time someone used the phrase "half-n****r" as a term of endearment or a joking manner?).

Also, absent in the chorus is the word of the rookies and 2nd-years (sans Tannehill, who in my opinion should have pursued a theft charge against Incognito for stealing his credit card). I wonder why.

And also, with Murtha's "eye contact" remark regarding Martin, I'm even more shocked at Ireland's behavior, considering he is in perfect position to know what someone who exhibits "lack of eye contact" is going through. IMHO he's just as bad as Joe Scarborough in being oblivious. I know, whether one who is not neurotypical should put himself in an NFL locker room should be a question to ask, but once that person answers the question, it's not just incumbent on him to adjust to the culture, but also on the locker room to "get" him and know when to stop.

Again, you don't hang out or run with that kind of crowd. I once did. I can tell you no-term was off limits if the bond of the friendship was strong. Maybe its a cultural thing, but I find too many elitists who simply just don't understand it. Fire up some M&M .. the white guy drops N bombs all the time and he gets away with it because he's an "honorary" black guy

It's not the N-bomb that gets me (I unfortunately understand that, as disgusting as the word is to me), it's the "half-n****r" bomb that gets me. Sorry, but you can't tell me that such a phrase is ever used in any type of locker room. You're telling me that biracials shrug off that term? I wonder if anyone ever used that phrase with Jason Taylor in a joking manner. I seriously doubt it.

I am also sorry that I DON'T BUY it at all that this could not have been handled internally.

Ordering a Code Red on someone with autism (I'm just guessing here, and I'm only guessing because of Murtha's comments regarding Martin being "shy" and "standoffish" and not maintaining eye contact with anyone) is bound to cause problems. From his own personal experiences, Ireland should have known this, and that's the biggest shocker nobody wants to discuss.

I am just getting to the point where I am at a loss for words and I will start saying unreasonable comments out of frustration knowing that this team is now ALL getting dragged through the mud of media all because a 300 pound pussycat went outside to handle this INTERNAL matter.

I am just getting to the point where I am at a loss for words and I will start saying unreasonable comments out of frustration knowing that this team is now ALL getting dragged through the mud of media all because a 300 pound pussycat went outside to handle this INTERNAL matter.

Sorry, but if a Code Red were ordered, that drags it out of being an "internal" matter. Remember that there were already longstanding rumors that nobody wanted to play for Ireland, and also remember that Channing Crowder called him "not a good person". All this is doing is confirming rumors that were already open secrets.

It's not the N-bomb that gets me (I unfortunately understand that, as disgusting as the word is to me), it's the "half-n****r" bomb that gets me. Sorry, but you can't tell me that such a phrase is ever used in any type of locker room. You're telling me that biracials shrug off that term? I wonder if anyone ever used that phrase with Jason Taylor in a joking manner. I seriously doubt it.

Ritchie didn't use it in the locker room. He used it on a private voicemail between him and a friend. Again, "what gets you" isn't in play here. Relative morality never works. Why do you think the voicemail wasn't played? Are you going to tell me there's not audio? Because the transcript looks worse than it sounds. Additionally there's a rumor that Incognito was drunk and Martin passed the voicemail around the locker room. Does that sound like someone who was hurt? If we're going to get into congecture, let's go all out. Finally, the guys I hung with wouldn't spare anyone. One was from East LA gang central. They were harsh and it was generally accepted as funny. If there was a Molato in the group he would've been tortured verbally. Just the way it was.

Where is this "Code Red" coming from??? There is obviously ALOT more to this ridiculous story. It is funny that upstanding guys like TANNEHILL who is around both those guys all the time was like, if you were to ask who Martin's BEST FRIEND was he would have guessed he would say Incognito.

Sorry, this Code Red stuff I don't buy. I am not saying I am right, I am just saying that I personally don't buy it.

It's not the N-bomb that gets me (I unfortunately understand that, as disgusting as the word is to me), it's the "half-n****r" bomb that gets me. Sorry, but you can't tell me that such a phrase is ever used in any type of locker room. You're telling me that biracials shrug off that term? I wonder if anyone ever used that phrase with Jason Taylor in a joking manner. I seriously doubt it.

Ritchie didn't use it in the locker room. He used it on a private voicemail between him and a friend. Again, "what gets you" isn't in play here. Relative morality never works. Why do you think the voicemail wasn't played? Are you going to tell me there's not audio? Because the transcript looks worse than it sounds. Additionally there's a rumor that Incognito was drunk and Martin passed the voicemail around the locker room. Does that sound like someone who was hurt? If we're going to get into congecture, let's go all out. Finally, the guys I hung with wouldn't spare anyone. One was from East LA gang central. They were harsh and it was generally accepted as funny. If there was a Molato in the group he would've been tortured verbally. Just the way it was.

So, you're telling me Jason Taylor wouldn't have decked someone for calling him a "half-n****r" in the locker room?

Where is this "Code Red" coming from??? There is obviously ALOT more to this ridiculous story. It is funny that upstanding guys like TANNEHILL who is around both those guys all the time was like, if you were to ask who Martin's BEST FRIEND was he would have guessed he would say Incognito.

Sorry, this Code Red stuff I don't buy. I am not saying I am right, I am just saying that I personally don't buy it.

So, you're telling me Jason Taylor wouldn't have decked someone for calling him a "half-n****r" in the locker room?

First, it wasn't in the locker room. Second, you're only making my point. Incognito felt comfortable enough with his friendship of Martin to leave that on a voicemail. What does that tell you? On JT, he was a classy guy who chose his friends wisely. I'm certain he would not have even tolerated the N word even from another brother.

I am just getting to the point where I am at a loss for words and I will start saying unreasonable comments out of frustration knowing that this team is now ALL getting dragged through the mud of media all because a 300 pound pussycat went outside to handle this INTERNAL matter.

Even if they make up some how & settle this dispute, which was blown out of proportion w/o their doing, can you see this organization looking okay for the rest of the season?

This is so weird and awkward but the inner circle is the only part this team can control or work with. So this needs to be done, even if its BS & the true discussion is never really found out. If not man . . . we're looking at starting the rebuilding over once again