At about 1 min mark this exemplifies the issue I have with people thinking pressure points are the end all-be all. The guy in black shirt was getting a surpra scapular done to him with the stick and he just took it. Some people can't feel PP or just don't care.

On the first clip, we had a seminar with many TMA groups there and one of them taught similar training. It was a blast.

For me, I like how it basically argues for the Dog Brothers concept and against the extremist of the "defanging the snake" side: The guy took clean shots to his fists and didn't even flinch. If he still had a stick in his hand, he propably wouldn't drop it.

Defanging the snake works if you're the better "swordsman" and/or if your opponent doesn't have a high enough pain tolerance for stick swipes. But here's the thing, and this is principially true for MMA as well: if your opponent realizes that he can't beat you in your game, then he'll try to take the fight to his/another level: clinch/trapping or ground/grapple.

If you're getting outboxed, then obviously you're not going to stay and keep on boxing, you'll take the fight where he simply can't box, meaning on the ground. The reverse is also true: if your opponent is a better grappler than you, than you don't try to outgrapple him; you endure and counter him until you can get back up on your feet and resume the fight there.

I'm sorry if I'm just "preaching to the choir" or however that expression goes, but looking at some older threads here I see that this anti-grappling mentality is still lingering around.

For me, I like how it basically argues for the Dog Brothers concept and against the extremist of the "defanging the snake" side: The guy took clean shots to his fists and didn't even flinch. If he still had a stick in his hand, he propably wouldn't drop it.

while 'defanging the snake' is generally a more effective strategy with a long blade, keep in mind that they were fighting with rattan, which is used in training specifically for the reason that it is flexible and will not cause a lot of damage. with a solid hardwood stick, the response might have been different. then again, it might not have.

still, to me, standing there and taking shots to the hand just because you can take the pain seems to be a bad choice. it shows no respect for the fact that the rattan is for training. even if fighting against rattan is the goal, well, more power to you.

while 'defanging the snake' is generally a more effective strategy with a long blade, keep in mind that they were fighting with rattan, which is used in training specifically for the reason that it is flexible and will not cause a lot of damage. with a solid hardwood stick, the response might have been different. then again, it might not have.

I thought rattan was pretty much the standard?

still, to me, standing there and taking shots to the hand just because you can take the pain seems to be a bad choice. it shows no respect for the fact that the rattan is for training. even if fighting against rattan is the goal, well, more power to you.

I understand where you're coming from. Back when I did PKT, my instructors used to remind us that we should treat the stick as if it was sword at all times, even during breaks. And the main goal of sparring was primarily "don't get hit", although we occasionally went into clinch range as well to try to disarm. I guess it all comes down to what your goal is: if it is to simulate sword fighting, then obviously that's the dumbest thing to do. But if you treat the stick just as a stick...well, it's still not the optimal thing to do unless you simply want to test your pain treshold, but I guess it's okay.

For me, I like how it basically argues for the Dog Brothers concept and against the extremist of the "defanging the snake" side: The guy took clean shots to his fists and didn't even flinch. If he still had a stick in his hand, he propably wouldn't drop it.

He's not your run-of-the-mill fighter, in that sense - in another part of that DVD (Sayoc Stick-Grappling) they demonstrate him conditioning his knuckles by doing fist pushups on top of a rattan stick, and getting flogged all over the torso without flinching.

Having had my hand decide to stop working at all after a good 'defanging' hit (as in, not just pain, but the complete inability to make my hand close), I wouldn't discount those shots.

Hitting the hand is just one part of a whole lotta' hits I'm going to be dealing out, so I'd never expect that would be the one to finish him off.

He's not your run-of-the-mill fighter, in that sense - in another part of that DVD (Sayoc Stick-Grappling) they demonstrate him conditioning his knuckles by doing fist pushups on top of a rattan stick, and getting flogged all over the torso without flinching.

Having had my hand decide to stop working at all after a good 'defanging' hit (as in, not just pain, but the complete inability to make my hand close), I wouldn't discount those shots.

Hitting the hand is just one part of a whole lotta' hits I'm going to be dealing out, so I'd never expect that would be the one to finish him off.

Read my post after that one. I never claimed that defanging never cuts it. I'm saying you should be prepared for a situation where defanging doesn't cut it and adjust accordingly, or be prepared for the reverse situation and expect your opponent to switch his tactics (ie, trying to take it to the ground instead)

Read my post after that one. I never claimed that defanging never cuts it. I'm saying you should be prepared for a situation where defanging doesn't cut it and adjust accordingly, or be prepared for the reverse situation and expect your opponent to switch his tactics (ie, trying to take it to the ground instead)

I'm good with that.

As much as I don't care for Hock Hochheim, I do agree with his concept of the Diminished Fighter, and that if you can smack your opponent on the hand, you'd better take that opportunity.

I have done a decent amount of live stick sparring and have posted some pics on here in the past of mine and my opponents bruises to go along with it. I will reiterate what I stated earlier in this thread that there are good reasons why people don't do it more often.

Also, the point that was made earlier is absolutely correct in that being hit with a one inch piece of rattan is a great deal easier than being hit with hard wood. One of my training partners feels the urge to do sinawali with his kamagong sticks once and a while. Of course, doing sinawali people misjudge things and your knuckles are hit on occasion. Its just part of the game. When I am hit with rattan it really doesn't faze me as I am pretty much used to it. Thats not to say that it doesn't hurt, because it does. When I get hit in the knuckles accidentally with kamagong, I have to step away for a while. It hurts like a mother. Those sticks are so heavy and hard that just grazing them hurts like a bitch. I know quite a few tough guys and many who have done a good deal of live stick sparring. Most of them more than I have by far. Having said that, I don't know anyone who I would predict could take a full power shot to the hand or wrist with a hardwood like kamagong and retain control of their weapon.