Aside from me liking TFE more than MSOTS(or maybe it's that I hated MSOTS more than TFE), it seems like if your relationship with her was built on the sentimentality of getting to know and share the Pumpkins, then TFE would be more valuable to hold on to by association.

I see Zwan as the sort of outcast of Billy-related projects. So many people hated the shallowness of the music, and the image, and the "new" band. At least with TFE, he was doing stuff all on his own... which isn't a stretch from Adore, or a lot of Siamese Dream. With MSOTS, he was trying hard to not be the Pumpkins, even with Jimmy being a part of it. But with TFE, it was more about doing a first solo record that sounded like a combination of what he was influenced by, and who he'd become. I think that's more on-par with the Pumpkins.

I'd say you defiantly made the right choice. I think as an album, Mary Star of the Sea is far superior.

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can you even buy a copy of either album that isn't used?

I know you can still find TheFutureEmbrace in stores new from time to time, but I have not seen a new copy of Mary Star of the Sea since 2006; but, I did see it a local Goodwill (with stickers AND DVD) for $2.50!

Thefutureembrace is better. In the same way that POMP is the best track from SP2

i've read plenty of people discuss why they like p&c so much, but i don't remember anything relevant to why TFE would be considered better than MSOTS. the guitar work on several MSOTS tracks is much closer to the soulful solo during P&C than anything on TFE....so i assume you're either talking about the inclusion of synths in general, or you're just saying that both p&c and tfe are better because they're more of the weird underdogs of the bunch.

both albums have their good moments and cringe moments. but overall MSOTS is much more listenable, imo.

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Originally Posted by electrucisuian

so is this guy with the "i'm better than you" font color like a DM or something?

I just believe he has done everything in rock that he is capable of. So unless he is creating something new or breaking new ground my interest fades.

thats the same thing that billy claimed in 1998, though by the spring of 1999 he was back on stage with the original band thrashing out awesome new rock tunes. not to mention all the rock he has done since.

so why does his "something new" have to be seperate from all things rock? Z is filled with new/fresh tunes that also happen to rock, cant you admire that?

not trying to attack you or anything, its admirable you don't just want to hear more of the same. just saying "new" and "rockin" don't have to be mutually exclusive.

In my opinion the real question is, will you part with Mina Loy/A100/Camera Eye or Mary Star of the Sea (song). These are the (only) four reasons to own these the albums. I'd choose TFE in a heartbeat. MSOTS song can be downloaded live in a much better version.

MSOTS is such a good album, and it saddens me to see all this hatred! It's not easy to write music that sounds simultaneously happy and genuine (especially if you're Billy Corgan, I'm assuming), but I've always felt that he pulled it off with MSOTS. There are some terrible moments, of course, but in all I think the terrible moments on MSOTS are fewer and more bearable than the terrible moments on TFE. TFE is way too melodramatic, and it just seems forced. It's like Billy trying to be a poet and failing (and, according to most, he already did that with Blinking with Fists).

I really like TheFutureEmbrace, but I haven't been able to enjoy MSOTS for several years. My favorite moments on MSOTS are actually the ones where he went way over-the-top (ie "Baby Let's Rock!" and the 14-minute "J,I/MSOTS"). The sunny pop tunes don't really do it for me. Sure, I enjoy "El Sol" and "Lyric" and "Endless Summer" and "Ride a Black Swan" but the album just lacks the drama of other BC releases. It's my least favorite of his.