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2008 Already Settled? Not by a Long Shot

By The New York Times November 5, 2007 12:19 pmNovember 5, 2007 12:19 pm

In his Web column today, Adam Nagourney writes that “For all the indisputable Democratic advantages, strategists in both parties say it is too early to hand the White House keys over to the Democratic Party.”

Reason No. 1 was on display in Philadelphia last Tuesday, where Mrs. Clinton, the New York senator who had been steadily building advantages over her rivals for the nomination, endured nearly two hours of attacks by her opponents, setting off one of the roughest weeks of her campaign.

That is not likely to end any time soon. The criticism will surely be pressed by Mrs. Clinton’s newly emboldened opponents as well as by journalists, who have seized on a a new campaign story-line. Go to Column

I think it’s important to remember that the attacks mentioned above were not personal attacks, nor were they attacks against her as a woman (a notion I still find insulting), but attacks on Sen. Clinton’s policies and campaign, which are completely legitimate and not “negative” campaigning. Her positions were legitimately inconsistent and vague throughout the debate, and I believe the debate actually served the American people for once – it made clear the differences between the candidates.

The criticism of Sen. Clinton is fair, since she was evasive throughout the debate – and I still think it is insulting to consider it an attack on her as a woman, rather than as a candidate. I think for once a debate actually served to show the American public the differences between candidates.

The best candidate in democratic party is Obama. We all know that but the establishment would rather see it hand over to the Clinton. Guess what? The democratic party will loose again if they hand over this election to Clinton.

Conventional wisdom cannot win this election. They had better choose someone that can win the independent votes rather than Hillary Clinton.

THE GORILLA IN OUR ROOM
As both political parties in America attempt to line up and scrutinize their candidate choices to hopefully right America’s ship of state, it seems inconceivable that after almost eight disastrous years, we still appear to be sadly incapable of doing the right thing. Meanwhile, the very best choice for all of America continues to demonstrate an unparalleled devotion and service to America and the world. So, while the Conservatives try desperately to make lemonade out of lemons, and the Liberals try to display their stripes through gender or race, the “inconvenient truth” is that the best choice to lead America at this point in our history, actually already won the Presidency eight years ago and had it stolen by a politicized judiciary. Now, after eight disastrous years of incompetence and poor leadership in America–and during which time the person with the leadership credentials and vision that America so desperately needs has won poetic vindication with both an Academy Award and the Nobel Peace Prize, it seems that America is dreadfully unresolved to correct its own course and give him a call. But what do we know? It’s only an eight-hundred-pound gorilla in our room.
H.B. Preston, Paris, France

A lot is riding on the behavior of the Democratic contenders through February.

Neither Edwards nor Obama has managed to convince enough Democratic voters of their ability to win or readiness to occupy the White House, so they have taken a strategy of last resort: blasting the front-runner and the favorite of most Democrats.

It’s not impossible that one of them could overtake Clinton, but it’s unlikely. It’s even less likely that either would win the White House. Edwards already failed to beat Kerry in 2004 and failed to help the Kerry ticket to a victory in key states, and his short tenure as a Senator and trial-lawyer “blame business” tone would likely be a loser against Giuliani. Obama has already committed to stances on Iran and immigration that will provide endless fodder to the right-wing spin machine and even lose support among many moderates.

The bash-Clinton strategy has also hurt the party because the chance for a unifying ticket like Clinton/Obama is now impossible. It even calls into question how vital a role either could play in the next administration if neither wins. Fortunately there are some important leaders who have endorsed Clinton – like Wesley Clark – who would be great on the ballot with her, or in the Cabinet.

Can Edwards and Obama rein it in and campaign on their own positions while not damaging the front-runner’s chances in ’08, or are they so vain as to believe their own recent press releases? In their winner-take-all approach to the primary game they take a big gamble – unfortunately it’s a gamble that the whole party (and nation) could lose.

“Mr. Obama’s advisers acknowledge there remains strong unease even among Democrats about whether, as a first-term senator, he has the experience to be president”

The “strong unease” about Obama’s “experience” is largely a result of the mainstream media failing to report on his record. To date the coverage by the mainstream media has been largely reduced to a horse race. If you look at the “experience” of each candidate, it is hard to understand why Obama alone is being attacked for inexperience. Even Rush Limbaugh questions why all of the focus is on Obama, saying: “You know the question could be asked of Mrs. Bill Clinton.” The frontrunners Obama, Clinton and Edwards all have the least amount of experience.

Bill Moyers : “ People say, ‘Obama is so inexperienced,’ No, he’s as experienced as Lincoln was when Lincoln went into the White House.

Lincoln – 2 years in Congress and 8 years in the State Legislature.

Barack Obama
12 years legislative experience – 8 in the Illinois Senate and 4 U.S. Senate by 2008

Hillary Clinton – 8 years in the U.S. Senate by 2008

Rudy Giuliani – 8 years as mayor of New York City

John Edwards – 6 years in the U.S. Senate

Fred Thompson – 8 years in the U.S. Senate

Mitt Romney – 4 years as governor of Massachusetts

Obama has more years as an elected official and experience with international politics than George W. Bush in 2000 or Ronald Regan in 1980.

John Kennedy, Jimmy Carter, and Bill Clinton defeated more experienced opponents in the primaries and general elections.

George McGovern, Walter Mondale, Al Gore, and John Kerry had lots of experience, won the primary and lost the general election.

Joe Biden is my choice. He’s experienced, knowledgeable,and articulate. He’s a leader. He’s the 98th wealthiest senator for goodness sake. He’s not in politics for what politics can do for him, but because he wants to give his mind and talents to the country. His message can actually resonate in the ‘Red States’ and bring the country together, instead of Hillary squeaking by with a slim electoral win, Joe can actually win over voters in Florida, Ohio, Nevada, and South Carolina, etc. Give Joe a fair review. He can actually win! He’s making Rudy look silly. Think electibility!

Chris Corbell, if you honestly think the way the other candidates are treating Clinton is “blasting”, I suggest you protect your delicate sensibilities and not listen to what Republicans are saying about her.

What the other Dem campaigns have said about her and her record is neither false nor particularly harshly stated. (Certainly no one is being any more “harsh” than Clinton’s own campaign.) Despite the efforts of the Clinton campaign — and the DNC and too many of the lazier sort of journalist — to portray it otherwise, the contest has been relatively polite so far.

For a reality check, I suggest you dig up and read through some of what was said during the race for the Dem Presidential nomination for, say, 1992.

Why all the concern about whether Clinton or Obama or Edwards will win the general election? All you have to do is look at who the Republicans might be running. Julie or Mittens or senior citizen McCain? C’mon. Let’s give the American people some credit and realize that the Repub candidate will be so weak that any of the more qualified Dem’s should win easily.

Democrats should be thankful that the candidates have finally strated to point out Clintons flaws. That’s much better than having her run and realize that the Republican contender is after her with a chainsaw, rather than a needle.
And yes, I loke Biden too, but let’s face it: This is arce between Obama and Clinton.
I hope the senator from Illinois will make it.

The issue that will bring Mrs. Clinton down to earth is that of her electibility. A few weeks ago I read where Americans have no history of voting for candidates they do not like. Mrs. Clinton’s negatives on likeability are low. The other candidates should inject the word “electability” in every sentence they utter up to Iowa and New Hampshire.

“The Power Elite has already chosen which political actor will represent this nation.”

You are so painfully correct. As a matter of fact I think the power elite has set up a win win situation, if Hillary does not win, then she will at least split the Democratic field and guarantee us 4 years of Rudy whom they also own.

“Democracy is dead in America.” if we fail to elect either Edwards, Obama, Ron Paul or Kucinich, all of which represent a change from business as usual inside the beltway, all of which are not bought and paid for the special interests and the military complex, all of which would do a better job of representing the average American than any of the Neo-Cons or the Neo-Dem.

The real Hillary has started to show under the whitewash and it is not a welcoming sight. The media has promoted her to the national stage and all the lights are set so the wrinkles do not show. The media glut of her “inevitability” has been carefully crafted to mask her dislike by the voters which translates into “un-electability”, the power brokers have thrown cash at her in lavish but much too expectedly questionable fashion, her war room has been staffed by the most influential and shady of movers and shakers and her campaign has so far been a fest of smoke screens thrown up at her contenders’ policies while mirroring their well received proposals. All of this very effectively screened and served in the most appealing form on a daily basis by a subservient media which has blatantly colluded with the power elite to choose the candidate for us.

Unfortunately, if one is to believe the polls, too many voters have been deceived by this well crafted sham and trundled out their memories of Bill Clinton’s years just as she has paraded him around to take advantage of the black and white photo it paints when taken along with Idiot boy’s current follies. But alas, Hillary is not Bill and even Bill is no longer the same Bill we remember and love, 12 years of rubbing with that most corrosive element of our society – unbound enterprise and its enterprising buyers and sellers of souls – has dimmed his luster to the point we wish not to see. And many have willed themselves ‘not to see’ the wrinkles and the mold.

At the beginning of this cycle I had hoped the underground scuttlebutt on Hillary was wrong as my own memories of the pre-Bush period were still latent and she represented that link to this period of sanity and stability. I started posting on these blogs defending her and Bill’s personal financial records and any attack the Neo-con rabid mob piled on Bill’s administration, but my eyes started to open when she went negative on Obama for what seemed to me to be solid and worthy proposals (the Hillary adherents seem to forget she was the first to “attack” another Democrat) this backfired because I wanted to know more about why she was attacking Obama and his stance and this led me to listen to his speeches and thus realized that he was for real and intelligent, not a media creation. Then came the rumblings of who her campaign guns were and soon after there was Hsu and the Paws and the dancing around the issues until either Obama or Edwards laid out their proposals just to copy these, then her Health Care proposal which is a pitch to the Insurances, and more recently her vote on the Iran resolution just drove the last nail in her coffin.

Too bad Hillary we really wanted to love you like we loved Bill, but you broke our trust and that is the last thing we can handle after 8 years of a deceiver like Oil boy. Hopefully, you will get the Education post in the next administration for that is the last unexploded myth we hold in our hearts – your dedication to children’s welfare – but first you are going to have to demonstrate this by spurring congress to override the SCHIP veto, otherwise, what good are you to us?

I agree with Matt above (#10). Joe Biden can unite the country, not just the party activists in the blue states. Read his latest book and look at his career in the Senate. He can forge coalitions and attract votes from conservatives and independents, because people know his word is good and his faith in issues is real.

What’s really bothering me so far about the Democratic primaries is the lack of depth. It’s all tabloid politics – who’s saying what about who, who’s mugging for the cameras, who’s throwing out empty promises. This country is in real trouble, and we need to begin addressing the problems instead of treating our elections like beauty contests.

If Hillary has to play the gender card (they’re picking on the girl) after being attacked by a couple of namby-pambies like Obama and Edwards, wait until Rudy gets hold of her. Beyond the palpable Clinton/Bush fatigue, she has huge vulnerabilities in her support of drivers licenses for illegal aliens, her lack of ethics, her evasiveness and flip-flops, her astonishingly stupid attack on General Petraeus’s credibility, and her exorbitant tax and spending plans. These liabilities don’t hurt her much in the primaries but will be fully exploited in the general election.

I am a halfhearted democrat meaning I believe in many of the democrat beliefs, but I also don’t believe in gun control. If democrats would leave guns alone I could become a full democrat. That said I have a major problem with all democrats running, that is their refusal to come to Michigan and Florida just because we as states choice to change our primary date. I believe lowa, New Hampshire, Carolina, and New Mexico do not have the right to be first in the nation. I believe Michigan should be up there. Michigan is and has been a strong state for democrats. Michigan is dealing with free trade issues that no other state is. I have not heard any thoughts about Michigan and why Michigan’s unemployment rate is twice the national average unemployment rate. But the economy is good, pre bush.HAHAHA. And we moved up our date to have more influence in the presidential candidates but we get boycotted by all democrat candidates for I desire to influence the choice. So I will be and encourage my fellow union brothers and fellows Michigan residents to boycott the democrats for president. I hope we as a state punish the candidates for their arrogants to assume Michigan will back him or her, and forget their violation of your voting rights as a state. They want our money but don’t have time for us. They promise 4 states “you 4 are special and we will spent the other 46 states monies here and address your state’s problem. The other 46 states mean nothing. I want to see if any democrat can win the white house with Michigan votes and electors in the republican column. And I know republicans don’t care about Michigan. But the democrats just show they don’t care either. Clinton exported Michigan economy to china. They all care about you, if your a multi-million or billionaire.
Hillary left her name on our primary but says I will not go to Michigan. Good I wouldn’t vote for her if she were the only choice. So I will probably have to vote for Mitt Romney and ask my friends to do the same. We as a state need to send the dnc a massage you can win without Michigan electors and you will not have them till you give up this 4 state primary system for a 50 state primary system. Why no have a 50 state primary date. Or a rolling 10 state primary, 10 states this time and the next 10 next election with the previous years state rolled to last date and so on. So please all Michigan and Florida residents boycott the dnc, the 4 special states and the democrat candidates. Don’t send them your money of you vote. We need to punish all of them. But don’t punish your democrat senators or reps. Except California please get rid of g.w. Bush’s personal speaker of the house. She is afraid to do what is right and stand up to bush. RUN CINDY RUN PLEASE HELP AMERICA, AMD RUN AGAINST NANCY. I will send your campaign money from Michigan to get rid of bush’s speaker of the house worthless piece of rotten garbage.

Senator Clinton has and always has had a strong marketing machine, and that’s why she’s up there at the top.

We all know it’s the product and word of mouth that sells an item or person. Her set of kitchen knives is somewhat dull, and some people in her customer service department have gotten word of it after the last debate.

Obama’s team is great at pointing out Clinton’s flaws but not at selling it’s own set of plates.

Edwards marketing and pr team are ratcheting things up quite a bit. He’s got some fine wine glasses, full set of dishes, as well as full silver available. All for the American people to enjoy. He smiles when he tells you, and gets angry when the competitor distorts the truth.

I get angry also, when someone tells me one thing, then provides me with another. I believe it’s called bait and switch!

She can tell us how sharp and how effective her knives are, until the coating comes off. Which it is.

I’m an Iowan, though I live in China, so I can’t participate in the Caucus.
As to frank, I don’t think we should be ‘punish’ing anyone. That’s a bit odd.
The 4 state system works because it allows people to see the candidate for who they are, and not how much money they have. You want a campaign to be run by money? Go 50 state primary.
I used to be leaning Obama, but then after seeing his speeches, I gave Hillary a shot. She simply could not hold up to his grandiosity. He speaks on a much higher, imperative level.
I am a cynic. The only person who makes me think something can actually happen here is Obama.

President Obama drew criticism on Thursday when he said, “we don’t have a strategy yet,” for military action against ISIS in Syria. Lawmakers will weigh in on Mr. Obama’s comments on the Sunday shows.Read more…