Well, they bought the time and the room at the convention without announcing what it was til the last minute to keep from having to deal with any "entanglements that might arise", or at least that is my understanding of how it went down. I am curious to know how they have managed to keep the film online though. Maybe you should try to get ahold of Sandy and ask him._________________ All ur bats r belong to us.

That's very possible. They had a fairly large budget to work with. Although, being the film was only created to serve as Sandy's demo reel in HW it would seem unlikely that he would go to the trouble. But who knows, that could be exactly what he did._________________ All ur bats r belong to us.

George Lucas supports the Star Wars fan films avidly, does he? In that case, I think we should find a way to talk to Bob Kane before anyone else, if he's still alive (no offense if you're reading this, Mr. Kane, but you created Batman in '39. You're pretty old). I think that if we got Kane on our side, he would have an easier time convincing DC Comics than all of our Bat-forces combined ever could._________________ "Holy ________, Bobman!"

Even if Mr. Kane were alive it would make no difference. He did not have any "pull" with DC/Warner Bros.

To break it down, DC is a business first and foremost. Batman is an intellectual property that they own. The way they see it is that there is no way for them to make a profit or benefit from our films (they forget the concept of free advertising/publicity for their characters, but oh well...) and they only see the possible negative ramifications. They don't give a crap about PR with the fans when its a matter of their property at stake. It's all about business. This is the way corporate America works. If they have no reason to be nice, they wont. I don't mean to piddle on anyone's parade but we have to be reasonable about what we do here. Perhaps I'm the overly cautious type, but I think a contact at DC would back up everything I've said here._________________ All ur bats r belong to us.

No DC would not understand. Gotham's right their a business and whether or not they enjoyed any of the films produced so far they would probably still want to shut us down. The only reason George Lucas tolerates fan films is because he is so massively wealth and clearly enjoys watching and lets them host their own awards which he judges. However DC is a company not one person. I'm sure IF Bob Kane still had the rights to Batman (oh and was alive) we might have an easier case to make because we'd only have to prove it to one owner. DC is a company and I don't think they'd listen to us. This site is still relatively small and I wouldn't worry about being shut down just yet. There's only a handful of films on-line._________________ THE ONE MAN A-TEAM - Out now - visit www.onemanateam.com to watch it

I can understand everyone's hesitation to take this to the DC folks. I sure as hell don't want someone telling me I can't make a movie about such an icon.

But the fact of the matter is that we, as filmamkers of a copyrighted character, are going to have to do so at SOME point.

Let my vote be this: let's wait until we have enough of a fan base ourselves (or at least vocal support) before we go on the initiative. Granted, if someone official finds this site first, it may be a forgone conclusion. I'm not unopposed to the idea (who knows? we MAY get the permission right off the bat... no pun intended) but rushing into a compound armed to the teeth with bloodthirsty lawyers with only a few fanatical filmmakers isn't really a plan.

It seems unlikely that the DC people do NOT know about the fan film site. If they were as unopposed to it as everyone surmises, they would have shut down BFF a LONG time ago, nipped it in the bud so to speak.

On the money thing, even though you don't generate income from the films themselves, I can see DC immediately going on the defensive as soon as "money" is mentioned.

Right now, the first course of action I can see is start spreading the word; start small, like local comic shops, gaming stores. Hell, even college and high school acting groups, if you're so inclined. No internet, at least not right away.

We don't want to just spring this on them, either. It's all about timing.

it doesn't matter if "money" is mentioned or not. the whole point of a copyright owner shutting down someone who infringes their copyright is to protect their product, not just to keep others from making money. i mean, they shut down the superman 8mm movie and that was free. they just don't want anyone else besides themselves interpreting their property. not that that's stopping us
i guarantee they'd be appalled and disgusted (much like most of us were) if they saw that special, intimate scene in "death of batman"._________________ "Pretty pathetic" - Disney CEO Michael Eisner on the quality of Pixar's movies.
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My professional artwork | My short movie "A Portrait of Envy"

I can agree with that, from an artistic viewpoint. But the thing is that the people at the top of the business food chain are not artists, but businessmen (and women... I'm onto you and your feminine wiles, Londonbat ).

The money part comes in on the idea that any cash coming to Batman Fan Films infringes on theirs, whether the party getting paid does so legitimately or by selling DVDs with copyrighted characters on it.

As for the infamous "intimacy scene"... I have to respect the fact that the writer/ director did it. That takes a LOT of brass to do so to such a well- known icon. Granted, the movie could have done well without it.

Not to critique the individual, but I liked the underlying idea of the film. Batman is, after all, a human being, and subject to the same laws and consequences as a human being is wont to. Kinda sucks that he OD'd, but he is after all, just a man.

AND (my last point on the matter, promise) he actually accomplished his goal: we're still appalled by it... and still talking about it.

That particualr film would DEFINITELY hurt our case to DC when its brought up, though.

I'll shoot over an e-mail to Dan Poole, this guy who made the legendary Spider-man fan film, the Green Goblin's Last Stand. Now he sells his DVD's like Arron as a making of. (and it's a damn good making of) but it's also available for free on the net. I think he asked Marvel before he started selling them. He hasn't got any agreement with them other than verbal one I think. Meaning if they wanted to turn on him and sue they could.

We'll never get permission from DC, ever. Especially with Batman. With Star Wars films they're never really dark, "out there" films. They're all happy and nice just like George Lucas's. With Batman you can interpret the material so many ways. At some point we might see if we can break it to them, but definately not an official letter to the head of the company._________________ THE ONE MAN A-TEAM - Out now - visit www.onemanateam.com to watch it