mikey287 wrote:Ducks M.O. is to shed money, not take it on. Thus, the Visnovsky deal. Not many teams move their #1 d-man for a 2nd round pick. Unlikely they'll want a depreciated Tangradi back.

Visnovsky's career looks like it's starting to take a real nosedive though after a great season two years ago. I still think Martin is a quality player and should get the Pens much more than Michalek. I really have no idea what it would take to get Ryan, but I'm willing to go to a higher price.

mikey287 wrote:Ducks M.O. is to shed money, not take it on. Thus, the Visnovsky deal. Not many teams move their #1 d-man for a 2nd round pick. Unlikely they'll want a depreciated Tangradi back.

Visnovsky's career looks like it's starting to take a real nosedive though after a great season two years ago. I still think Martin is a quality player and should get the Pens much more than Michalek. I really have no idea what it would take to get Ryan, but I'm willing to go to a higher price.

Had a bad season on a bad team that had some turmoil. The year before he finished 4th for the Norris. I'm not sure if his career is necessarily done. It seems like a pure money purge to me.

I don't know why the Pens would trade for Ryan until they find out if they can get Parise or Semin for free (in terms of parting with assets... obviously they cost us cap money) and how much space they would take up.

Maybe, I think that's a fair trade, orpik and despres are nhl players with good contracts, bennet is from out there, so I think its a fair start at the least, although RS would need to get busy and find a thumper on the blue line.Don't get me wrong, I dont want them to move Orpik, hes the only guy in that room that tells it like it is, but with Z gone, hes the only guy other than letang (not happening) that the ducks would want, martin is useless in this deal for what the ducks look for on D.

DesertPenguin wrote:Are the Ducks in financial trouble? I wasn't aware of that.

It's gonna be a lean year for them. They share a market with Los Angeles...but it's like the Islanders sharing with the Rangers, one team wins and the other team loses. The Ducks will have a bad year, they'll be in the bottom-third in attendance and it's gonna hurt them financially...the fans that want to see hockey in SoCal will go to the Staples Center, not the Pond I believe.

That's why they sent their #1 d-man away for a song. I'm not sure how much value Ryan as, but when making a trade proposal, just ask yourself, "would I trade this package for James Neal?" because their values probably aren't terribly far apart even with Neal's awesome season, Neal probably isn't that far ahead of him. So a second-pairing d-man, a defensive prospect that will be bottom-4 probably and a longshot prospect...is that enough? I don't know, I wouldn't think so.

Ryan is also a big Flyers fan and seems intent on going there, so who knows if he Jeff Carter's us and sulks if we get him. I'm not sure we're a position to be giving major assets for these pieces out there like Weber, Nash and Ryan...I don't think it's realistic. We gave up our big trade chip already.

For the record, I thought Orpik was born in California but grew up out east? Maybe I"m misremembering. But you gotta pay to play for a young, top-line winger in this league. Three 79's and a 2nd generally won't get you an 89.

DesertPenguin wrote:Are the Ducks in financial trouble? I wasn't aware of that.

It's gonna be a lean year for them. They share a market with Los Angeles...but it's like the Islanders sharing with the Rangers, one team wins and the other team loses. The Ducks will have a bad year, they'll be in the bottom-third in attendance and it's gonna hurt them financially...the fans that want to see hockey in SoCal will go to the Staples Center, not the Pond I believe.

That's why they sent their #1 d-man away for a song. I'm not sure how much value Ryan as, but when making a trade proposal, just ask yourself, "would I trade this package for James Neal?" because their values probably aren't terribly far apart even with Neal's awesome season, Neal probably isn't that far ahead of him. So a second-pairing d-man, a defensive prospect that will be bottom-4 probably and a longshot prospect...is that enough? I don't know, I wouldn't think so.

Ryan is also a big Flyers fan and seems intent on going there, so who knows if he Jeff Carter's us and sulks if we get him. I'm not sure we're a position to be giving major assets for these pieces out there like Weber, Nash and Ryan...I don't think it's realistic. We gave up our big trade chip already.

For the record, I thought Orpik was born in California but grew up out east? Maybe I"m misremembering. But you gotta pay to play for a young, top-line winger in this league. Three 79's and a 2nd generally won't get you an 89.

That's true. The more I think about it, it would be too expensive (too many assets going the other way) to get Ryan. I'd rather sign Semin to a short deal. He could potentially score more goals and has value as a PK if necessary.

ffemtreed wrote:I actually would like Ryan over Parise because Ryan is more of a grinder and costs less at the moment. I think he fits in better with the team philosophy.

As for a trade, its been all over the place this summer already. Would Despres, Cooke and a pick get it done? How highly do they think of Martin? He was pretty sought after when he was a UFA.

I would prefer Ryan over Parise as well. Price and style. Look, Parise would probably score 40 to 50 goals along Sid, you can't say anything bad about that lol. If Parise comes here, I'll the silliest dance in the world out of joy. However, Ryan is a beast of a player, can score, bang bodies and most important...keep up with Sid.

Everyone needs to keep in mind a few things. Sure we saved some cap with recent moves but there is no guarantee right now crosby and Malkin would take only 9 mil.

Also, 20 teams have more available cap space than us. And we still have roster spots to fill.

Signing a guy you cant just look at this years numbers and make it happen, also the same with trades. Long term money and future cap especially if it decreases could be an issue with us filling out our roster.

I am perfectly happy with our moves so far I just don't think it's as that simple moving forward.

Say we sign Zach at an inflated salary. We could be going into I next year with a worse defense(ZM wasnt all that bad in the playoffs- Orpik was way worse) worse 3rd line (no matter how solid he istill replacing staal and cooke is slowin down),and worse 4th line with no money to make changes moving in future years.

ffemtreed wrote:I actually would like Ryan over Parise because Ryan is more of a grinder and costs less at the moment. I think he fits in better with the team philosophy.

As for a trade, its been all over the place this summer already. Would Despres, Cooke and a pick get it done? How highly do they think of Martin? He was pretty sought after when he was a UFA.

I would prefer Ryan over Parise as well. Price and style. Look, Parise would probably score 40 to 50 goals along Sid, you can't say anything bad about that lol. If Parise comes here, I'll the silliest dance in the world out of joy. However, Ryan is a beast of a player, can score, bang bodies and most important...keep up with Sid.

Everyone needs to keep in mind a few things. Sure we saved some cap with recent moves but there is no guarantee right now crosby and Malkin would take only 9 mil.

Also, 20 teams have more available cap space than us. And we still have roster spots to fill.

Signing a guy you cant just look at this years numbers and make it happen, also the same with trades. Long term money and future cap especially if it decreases could be an issue with us filling out our roster.

I am perfectly happy with our moves so far I just don't think it's as that simple moving forward.

Say we sign Zach at an inflated salary. We could be going into I next year with a worse defense(ZM wasnt all that bad in the playoffs- Orpik was way worse) worse 3rd line (no matter how solid he istill replacing staal and cooke is slowin down),and worse 4th line with no money to make changes moving in future years.

Just saying its more delicate than people think.

How many of those 20 spend near the cap every year? You could probably eliminate a lot of those 20 right away. How many viable players for Suter and Parise have as much cap space as the Pens? That's a more important question.

ffemtreed wrote:I actually would like Ryan over Parise because Ryan is more of a grinder and costs less at the moment. I think he fits in better with the team philosophy.

As for a trade, its been all over the place this summer already. Would Despres, Cooke and a pick get it done? How highly do they think of Martin? He was pretty sought after when he was a UFA.

I would prefer Ryan over Parise as well. Price and style. Look, Parise would probably score 40 to 50 goals along Sid, you can't say anything bad about that lol. If Parise comes here, I'll the silliest dance in the world out of joy. However, Ryan is a beast of a player, can score, bang bodies and most important...keep up with Sid.

Everyone needs to keep in mind a few things. Sure we saved some cap with recent moves but there is no guarantee right now crosby and Malkin would take only 9 mil.

Also, 20 teams have more available cap space than us. And we still have roster spots to fill.

Signing a guy you cant just look at this years numbers and make it happen, also the same with trades. Long term money and future cap especially if it decreases could be an issue with us filling out our roster.

I am perfectly happy with our moves so far I just don't think it's as that simple moving forward.

Say we sign Zach at an inflated salary. We could be going into I next year with a worse defense(ZM wasnt all that bad in the playoffs- Orpik was way worse) worse 3rd line (no matter how solid he istill replacing staal and cooke is slowin down),and worse 4th line with no money to make changes moving in future years.

Just saying its more delicate than people think.

How many of those 20 spend near the cap every year? You could probably eliminate a lot of those 20 right away. How many viable players for Suter and Parise have as much cap space as the Pens? That's a more important question.

Sure but there are plenty that have a ton of space thy do spend. All I am saying is its not as simple as this years cap number and our space available. Other tea a will make runs at players and we have long term cap I worry about too.

mikey287 wrote:That's why they sent their #1 d-man away for a song. I'm not sure how much value Ryan as, but when making a trade proposal, just ask yourself, "would I trade this package for James Neal?" because their values probably aren't terribly far apart even with Neal's awesome season, Neal probably isn't that far ahead of him. So a second-pairing d-man, a defensive prospect that will be bottom-4 probably and a longshot prospect...is that enough? I don't know, I wouldn't think so.

comparing Ryan and Neal is a good comp, but you can't just go by that when looking at trade value. There are always unique circumstances on why a team that wants to move a player that fits into the equation. Just look at the Pens and the Staal move, I would argue that Ryan isn't that much more valuable than staal, and we traded him away for a 1st rounder, 3rd line center and D prospect. We pretty much just gave Mikhalek away because we had motivation to dump salary. Heck even look at history of the Pens deals that weren't hockey trades, we gave up Jagr for 3 prospects. I know the Jagr trade was a long time ago, but it shows very well you can't really compare. Look back at Neal last year? what did it cost us? A solid blueliner for both Niskanen and Neal. Dallas had other motivations for trading those two, not sure what they were but James Neal alone was worth Gogo. Heck, the ducks just gave away one of their top D-man for nothing just a day or so ago.

So maybe the Ducks are looking for some up and coming players ready to jump into the NHL that are on entry level contracts, players like Despres or maybe just looking at players to full roster spots cheap, maybe someone like Adams for leadership or Vitale for youngblood. No I am not suggesting we can trade Adams or vitale straight up for Ryan, but I am suggesting maybe the ducks are looking for those types of players and some bluechip prospects and/or picks.

Last edited by ffemtreed on Sun Jun 24, 2012 9:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.

I look at bobby ryan as about 20 other NHL teams looked at Jordan Staal when the news broke that Staal turned down the penguins offer.Bobby Ryan is quoted as saying "For me, if I'm moved, Philadelphia would be a very ideal and comfortable place for me.”His father is also quoted as saying "In my mind, the Flyers are the best that there is."

Ryan is also apparently from that area and his father is close friends with Bob Clarke.

Its like when the news of the Staal stuff came out. Of course other teams wanted Staal, like Toronto or Columbus, but no one is going to trade for a guy who doesn't want to be there. I think it is pointless to talk about Ryan coming to the pens. I think the best we can hope for is Philly severely overpays in the trade.

lemieuxReturns wrote:I look at bobby ryan as about 20 other NHL teams looked at Jordan Staal when the news broke that Staal turned down the penguins offer.Bobby Ryan is quoted as saying "For me, if I'm moved, Philadelphia would be a very ideal and comfortable place for me.”His father is also quoted as saying "In my mind, the Flyers are the best that there is."

Ryan is also apparently from that area and his father is close friends with Bob Clarke.

Its like when the news of the Staal stuff came out. Of course other teams wanted Staal, like Toronto or Columbus, but no one is going to trade for a guy who doesn't want to be there. I think it is pointless to talk about Ryan coming to the pens. I think the best we can hope for is Philly severely overpays in the trade.

Yeah, I'm starting to see why this guy has spent so much time on the trade block. Unlike Staal, Ryan is under contract for three more years, and here he's making noise about wanting to go to X team. What if X team can't work out a deal for him? He's going to do what, pout for three years? Pretty asinine IMO.

Last edited by Pens15 on Sun Jun 24, 2012 9:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.

columbia wrote:If I were Anaheim, my minimum requirement would be Couturier or Simmonds + #1 pick.

Maybe Couturier + Simonds + #1 pick.

It has to be more than we recieved for Staal. Ryan still has years left on the contract.

That #1 pick is gonna be low and Simmonds while a good player isn't what the Ducks need out of this deal. Not looking good for the Ducks as top Defense prospect Justin Schultz is bent on weaseling his way out and now Ryan pouting his way out too. Ok Bobby, you want out; but to kill leverage with other teams by singling out Philly in your rant. Not a class move on Ryan's part. If I was the Duck's GM, I'd tell the *****bag that I'll trade him only if I get fair value. So I guess Bobby that you will be staying here longer than you want because of your child-like rant killed some of your value.

mikey287 wrote:That's why they sent their #1 d-man away for a song. I'm not sure how much value Ryan as, but when making a trade proposal, just ask yourself, "would I trade this package for James Neal?" because their values probably aren't terribly far apart even with Neal's awesome season, Neal probably isn't that far ahead of him. So a second-pairing d-man, a defensive prospect that will be bottom-4 probably and a longshot prospect...is that enough? I don't know, I wouldn't think so.

comparing Ryan and Neal is a good comp, but you can't just go by that when looking at trade value. There are always unique circumstances on why a team that wants to move a player that fits into the equation. Just look at the Pens and the Staal move, I would argue that Ryan isn't that much more valuable than staal, and we traded him away for a 1st rounder, 3rd line center and D prospect. We pretty much just gave Mikhalek away because we had motivation to dump salary. Heck even look at history of the Pens deals that weren't hockey trades, we gave up Jagr for 3 prospects. I know the Jagr trade was a long time ago, but it shows very well you can't really compare. Look back at Neal last year? what did it cost us? A solid blueliner for both Niskanen and Neal. Dallas had other motivations for trading those two, not sure what they were but James Neal alone was worth Gogo. Heck, the ducks just gave away one of their top D-man for nothing just a day or so ago.

So maybe the Ducks are looking for some up and coming players ready to jump into the NHL that are on entry level contracts, players like Despres or maybe just looking at players to full roster spots cheap, maybe someone like Adams for leadership or Vitale for youngblood. No I am not suggesting we can trade Adams or vitale straight up for Ryan, but I am suggesting maybe the ducks are looking for those types of players and some bluechip prospects and/or picks.

Oh believe me, I know, that there's lots of different things that go into a trade. Some trades are cash deals, some trades are strength for strength, some are rentals, some are whatever...the only thing I'm trying to put out there is the thing that plagues every board's respective fans - they don't think about the other side of it. If it were up to everyone here, it'd be Martin and Kennedy for Ryan. If it were up to everyone on the Ducks board, it wuold be Ryan and Cogliano for Malkin. You have to be able to understand what they need in return, what their style is, what's valuable and what's not. Every organization has at least a few Adams' or Vitale's, which is why they're rarely traded commodities (Adams himself was plucked off waivers at the trade deadline by a team that was in the bottom-third of waiver priority...not highly sought after even for free...)

The easiest to do to get people to think about their proposals was to put him on the Neal pedestal. Would you accept this package for James Neal? It kind of helps to quell the nonsense packages... "Crappy overpaid player, underachieving forward, the prospect we don't like this month and the obligatory mid-round pick [you know, to even it up...] for their star player and a late-round pick [ya know, we gave up a pick, so, ya know, we need one back, obvi]" is just a waste and delusional...I don't like to read it...