Welcome, brother! Pay no attention to Mr MagnumOpus, for he speaks against things he can not see, and calls you blind, or so it seems to me.

edit on 23-7-2012 by Lazarus Short because: lah-de-dah

I just quote what you preach. You have a belief, not a reality. What you have exists only in the imagination of the mind. What is sold is the
stories to perk the imagination build upon some realities, but going well beyond in many cases

A belief only becomes reality when all can see it via the two eyes, and test the physical nature.

Thus, most all you claim is just fantasy of the mind, else all the world would be believing the reality.

You require faith, never offer any reality substance. You require imagination to get to heaven, hell, and god, as they don't appear to exist in
reality or the world would be quick to show everyone on Earth.

Yours is a world of the imagination of the believers.

The only things that appear real from antiquity is the gods of Anu, and the embellished stories of religion fit these accounts all too well. The
Anu were not gods, but their existance did begin this fantasy god concept.

Honesty would have you each explain that we don't deal with reality, all our beliefs are those created in our mind as a fantasy embellished from the
gods of Anu.

Reality also takes shape via the heart, Opus. That's why it's so hard to convince people who are conditioned to take their milk from only one teat,
despite the many other teats that also give good healthy milk.

Is that all it comes down to, for you? Having lived your entire life for nothing? You're right, you won't know...unless you're right in a sense
that you never imagined. But your current impression makes all the difference in how you react and think and interact.

Reality also takes shape via the heart, Opus. That's why it's so hard to convince people who are conditioned to take their milk from only one teat,
despite the many other teats that also give good healthy milk.

edit on 23-7-2012 by AfterInfinity because: (no reason given)

I have seen and read all the touching stories from the Bible and Organized Religion. I know them well, all those heart rendering stories. I looked
more deeply and found problems with the stories matching up to history and to reality.

The issues of taking milk from a tit is a tangeble reality, and these two concepts don't compare.

The most serious problem with the Christian Religion is the game of imagination for what is heaven, hell, and god. It doesn't show up as reality,
and the imagination runs wild in the Christian Teachings, again lots of reality lacking.

This is very dangerous to humanity as most of humanity is based upon the value of truth and only pyhsical reality came be called truth.

When one generates the concepts for imagined realities in the Christian mind, then they depart from reality and the truth concepts. Such allow the
Churches to attack non-believers, as in the inquistions. It allows the churches to demonize other religions, like Islam. It even says that folks
that don't believe in their heart reandering imagination stories are not Christians, because they ask to see the reality and the truth.

The Organized Church seems to hate Islam because Muhammad wrote his own book of religious values and that competed with everyone else. So, again
both sides engaged in a bit of fantasy as the god of Islam is Yahwey, which is the god for Judaic and Christians. So, now one side has to burn the
others books and call each other bad names and run off and start wars. Everybody has a little claim to the Holy land, and nobody appears to get
along.

Had man been forced to abide by reality only and not engage in imagined reality in the mind, we would not have this mess of conflicts over religion
and each sides faked up beliefs.

Religions have become dangerous to all because they depart from truth, depart from reality, and move into a concept of imagination where darn near
anything might be claimed. Then the mud slinging begins because some expect truth and reality to be foremost for moral compass and peace making for
the world. But Christians argue the heart stories embellished beyong truth are important, because he have to have the passion to get recruits for
our story of imaginations on heaven, hell, and god. Seems they don't care for truth and reality, only for recruits and money in the cup to continue
the tales.

All those that depart from that concept of truth and tangeble reality and get into battles over their imagined beliefs are a serious defect in human
quality required for peace, as well as for the world beginning to become one.

edit on 23-7-2012 by MagnumOpus because: The Dangers of the religious mind that set the stage for wars and massive death campaigns

Lol ok... Try to convince yourself of that... Ain't gonna work with me...

He is barely mentioned in the OT...

And i don't care about adam and eve, or what they wore... Did you miss the "useless info" remark?

I'm ot talking about His Name Jesus being mentioned. Every story, ritual, number, place name, macro codes,..

Adam and Eve discovered they were naked so they sewed fig leaves together. That was the first instance of religion. (Man trying to cover himself).
God was showing them in a model that only by shedding innocent blood (the animals were innocent) that they would be covered. The sacrifice of Issac
by his father on the same mountain Christ would later be sacrificed on was a picture of the crucifixion. Then immediately Abrahams's assistant
"Eliazar" (which means "comforter") goes and looks for a Gentile bride for Issac. Then he is not heard from again until He comes out to meet his
Gentile bride. (Picture of Christ returning for His bride)...

I could go on for pages and pages... even the geneology of Adam in Genesis when the root meanings on the names are made into a sentence tells the
Christian gospel. "Man (is) appointed mortal sorrow (but the) blessed God shall come down teaching (His) death shall bring (the) disparing
comfort/rest".

Again my friend... Useless information...

This is why i tell people to start reading the bible at Matthew 3... skip the useless info and get to the meat of the issue... Do you think the
geneology matters in the least when it comes to understanding his lessons?

I realize christians believe the bible is the entire word of God... but i do not, and i find it obvious that its not... but if you do, feel free im
not here to stop you or change your beliefs.

Four books are needed to understand Jesus... Thomas also has lots of great info...

IF one needs the rest of the bible to understand who he was even though he told us exactly WHO he was... that is a testament to said persons lack of
faith in Jesus and what he said...

So, explain to me and everyone else why you should be believed over all the other beliefs of god and books. How are you more special than Mohammad,
for instance, and why should we consider you over his book?

Are you suddenly more pious, more honest, more heart sensitive, and a god (we don't know which god) teaches you and you don't even offer a book to
teach others.

A good many of the Jewish tell the story of Jesus, as the Christians amplified, is bogus nonsense. So tell us why your views are greater than their
views on Jesus.

How have you become the person we all should believe that has the answer on Jesus and god?

Is the answer you needed a little attention and just decided to toss out the line on I place my faith in Jesus and god. With faith being just
imagination, why should we be impressed?

How will you get a belief into a truth and a reality is the question. If you can't answer that----you don't have truth as your guiding light, nor
peace as your untimate destination.

You honestly expect me to carry on answering your empty and purposely provocative questions don't you? If there was any point I probably would but as
I see it nothing productive will come of it. So do yourself a favour and forget it

If only 4 books are needed to understand Jesus then explain how 12 men evangelized the known world for Christ without them just using the LXX for
their text? Without the OT you are missing 2100 prophecies about Christ. For fun check out the ELS codes found in just 12 verses of Isaiah 53.

Is your skin not important to you.
The meat is what holds the heart of the matter but where would you be and what would you learn without your shell/suit?
Go straight to the heart but embrace the shell.

Tic toc tic toc
My heart feels much pain because some rebel in a way that is eternally unjust.
Many on here tow the line that many can't see.
Thank you op and to all the others that have a light yoke and a sore back!

You honestly expect me to carry on answering your empty and purposely provocative questions don't you? If there was any point I probably would but as
I see it nothing productive will come of it. So do yourself a favour and forget it

Peace x

Not really, just wanted to see how you dealt with the issues of critical thinking. Plus, to see if you could deal with the aspects of religions
being the roots of wars via lacking reality.

I fully expected you to bail out and complaign about being run up a tree and all the limbs sawed off from under you. So, keep squirming.

Remember, I ask very hard questions on those telling about religion and expect some aspect of truth to be the decision factor. When you find some
reality, not imagination, folks might thnk you have something to value in your words.

How will you get a belief into a truth and a reality is the question. If you can't answer that----you don't have truth as your guiding light, nor
peace as your untimate destination.

They make some wonderful medications for people that hate their lives.

Why are you so upset that we have searched and found some happiness in our lives?

As a fellow human it would seem like you should be happy he found his answer.

The OP is totally unmoved by your lack of faith.

Seriously, why would our belief in something bother you?

If this was a thread about people that believe in Santa.

I would smile, wish them well and quickly move on.

I really hope you find some happiness in life.

Would it be too much to ask you not to trash mine?

Belief in Santa is pretty well understood to be something fabricated to make kids happy and to keep them in line for presents from Santa, or a lump of
coal, if you are bad. I don't know a single adult that considers Santa to be real, they all know the story is staged, and they do it to please the
kids and brighten winter. I can't think of a case where belief in Santa killed anyone. Maybe a few due to electrocution and falling off houses due
to accidents and decoration misshaps.

I can't make the same observation for this belief in god, embellished Jesus theme, issue, because these various beliefs in god have killed millions.
There are these hell fire and damnation preachers threatning everyone is going to hell and you won't be saved unless you do as we tell you and fall
down on your knees before the altar.

Yes, religion beliefs kill. Lots of the Communist countries had to ban religion to keep it from interfering with the state and a number of
Missionaries were shot on the spot.

Most of the world expects and values truth and reality knowledge, but Christians work on sympathy stories to appeal to the heart to get followers.
Telling The truth in the story didn't matter, and the differing stories between religions get people killed, and even the existance of religion
messing with affairs of state get people killed.

Santa isn't a problem because it is unversally understood that it is a fantasy and not real, it is a stage act. A fantasy is fun, when it is
acknowledge to be one. Movie fantasy fiction stores are fun, but most know it is a fictional.

A good many of religion think every little word is truth on what god is, and there doesn't appears to be a standard for what is god about in the
differing religions, so there are continual battles, name calling, wars, meddling with affairs of state, and trying to control Governments.
Disgusting behavioirs to support these fantasy games.

Many of the Jewish religion have seen the light and changed into secular humanists, because they are sick and tired of all the problems with loss of
realities and truth due to religion induced hate.

When religion becomes on par with everyone knowing it is as faked up and staged as Santa, the world's problems will become less. Religion is too
often couched as a totally true documentary, when the case is more that of a fiction tossed on top of a few reality factors, still making it overall a
work of fiction.

Until then, this is a discussion list and differing opinions, difficult questions, and historical perspectives are allowed. All that along with
Critical Thinking, expectations of truth and reality in discussions being allowed and necessary for any debate.

If you want a tent revival, then you need a tent at a church and not one held on a public forum were various differing opinions are allowed and the
expecation is that to deny ignorance, not promote ignorance of religions.

If you want to take your belief into your home, there will be no discussions and you can belief god is the tooth fairy. But, on ATS, as best I can
tell, various views are allowed as long as folks stay civil.

And disagreements occur often, exceptionally so in religion based themes, but I would suggest that happens because of a loss of reality and too much
fantasy portraued as realith. When someone steps into portayal of various facets of religion as truth, often there is considerable discussions.

Did you really expect to get in ATS and speak to only your views of religion and not found a counter opinion. Think again. Lots of people seek
truth and reality, not pretty little passion stories that ditch try to make myths and loss of truth.

edit on 23-7-2012 by MagnumOpus because: Organized religion lacks truth and loves wars based upon the religion lacking truth.

If only 4 books are needed to understand Jesus then explain how 12 men evangelized the known world for Christ without them just using the LXX for
their text? Without the OT you are missing 2100 prophecies about Christ. For fun check out the ELS codes found in just 12 verses of Isaiah 53.

Brainwashing the masses is easy if you can convince them you have answers to things that are unknown... Its called taking advantage of peoples fear of
death... still widely used in the church world to this day

12 men managed to "evangelize" the world... yet only a few of them "apparently" decided to write anything about this amazing man... then theres
paul... He knew nothing of Jesus yet spoke like he did... Taught barely nothing from the words of Jesus either but apparently he was "inspired" by
him... believe what you will about paul... the only thing his words are good for was his views on love...

Personally i think he highjacked the religion and made it his own, but you know i believe this...so lets not go there...

4 books is all that is needed to understand him... 5 if you want to include thomas (and i know you don't)

Reading those books (and understanding them of course) will help those that are interested to understand him, and thus understand the true God... On
the other hand reading the rest of the books only confuse the issue... Of course there are those who choose to listen to people preach those books...
and as anyone can clearly see by the state of "christianity" in this world.... it leads to nothing but judgement of others...

IF people read those books only... at least as far as understanding him, there would not be 30k different flavors of said religion... there would be
one... dedicated to understanding the son of God... And not the maniacial tyrant of the OT

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