Where XXXX is one of the London convenors of Reinvestigate 9/11 - the successor to the London 9/11 Truth meetings.

astro3 or Nick Kollerstrom wrote:

So, the crime of Heresy is reappearing. What secret clique, Mr Gosling, made this decision? I’d like to put onto the agenda for that October 5th meeting a Credo, that members can recite to make sure none of them are succumbing to the Heresy.

XXXX would lead this Confession, as XXXX is proposing it, while all of us would stand up to show respect.

I believe in The Holocaust, than which there is no other
I will never doubt the Holy Six Million
I believe in the phantom Gas Chambers, despite the complete absence of any evidence whatever for their existence.
I believe in the fiendish German plot, to exterminate European Jews, despite the complete absence of evidence of a single document anywhere indicating this.
I believe, despite the complete absence of evidence of a single death from cyanide poisoning in any German labour-camp.
I believe, in the Eternal Guilt of the German Nation, which must forever repay funds towards Israel, to atone.

Or maybe Frank would prefer Mr Hoffman’s version?

Quote:

I believe in one Holocaust®, conceived in Hollywood, born of the New York media: and in Six Million Judaics, who suffered under Adolf Hitler and were gassed, made into lampshades and cremated. In the 21st century they arose again, to haunt the living and the dead. I believe in Elie Wiesel and the geysers of blood, …the holy Shoah biz Church, the communist saints, no forgiveness of German sins, the resurrection of lies, and the shelf-life everlasting of the Auschwitz gas chamber stories. Amen.

That way this 9/11 ‘Truth’ (?!?) group could aspire to full Zionic approval! Noel would be happy at last.

I am here to take away from you your worst nightmare. The reason for this, is that I have an upbeat message of hope and optimism for the human race. But, the whole thing won’t work as long as you persist in hanging onto that nightmare-delirium: or, as long as you put the definite article The before 'Holocaust.'
Tony Gosling wants to ban me because, as he explains, he would likewise have ‘no racists or no Psychopaths, machine guns, bullies.’ Clearly he needs an Inquisition, to pry into people’s views before allowing them to come. My view is so terrible to him that it's like someone coming in with a machine-gun!
Yes, I appreciate the truth can hurt at times. I’m happy if anyone wants a debate on the subject: but generally speaking no-one does. They prefer the media lies, and like to be controlled by the mantra, ‘Holocaust-denial = Nazi = Anti-semitism.’

Well you haven't removed my name, Tony, from the list Astro3 was attacking.

His post is a sarcastic attack on people who believe discussion of the Jewish holocaust provides some evidence that enemies of the 9/11 Truth Movement want to prove that the movement is, as they allege, full of anti-Semites and holocaust deniers. As such it is a straw man argument because it distorts our policy. We should all know about the dangers of omissions and distortions.

Some people in the 9/11 Truth Movement have formed Reinvestigate 9/11. This organisation is for people who want to concentrate on campaigning on the basis of 9/11 and terrorist attacks alone. We have a policy of not campaigning on other issues, the better to devote our time to terrorism. We also avoid speculation.

No one is obliged to join this organisation. Anyone is free to campaign on any issue they like but not from within Reinvestigate 9/11. Last year at the pan-European 9/11 truth meeting in Paris representatives from each country present reported that they were under attack on the grounds that they were being portrayed by the media as anti-Semites and holocaust deniers. With continued pressure from Astro3 and others to campaign on the Jewish holocaust simultaneously with 9/11 it is not surprising that the movement is attacked in this way. Some people are wondering whether this pressure is being brought on to the movement by MOSSAD influence because it is just what the Zionist government in Israel needs to discredit us.

No one in Reinvestigate 9/11 is required to sign up to any particular beliefs, we merely excercise the self discipline to concentrate on 9/11 and terrorism alone.

Why should it bother Astro3 that we have decided not to campaign in the way he wants to? He is not obliged to join us and, given the negative publicity which has arisen due to his research, he is not welcome. He is free to campaign in the way he wants with those who are willing to co-operate with him.

"...Some people in the 9/11 Truth Movement have formed Reinvestigate 9/11. ......... We have a policy of not campaigning on other issues, the better to devote our time to terrorism. We also avoid speculation....."

Sometimes, by shutting down those you disapprove of, you weaken your own aims. Sometimes it is necessary to dip more than a toe into the cesspit...

...if your aim is to discover the truth, however unpalatable. Not sure the three wise monkeys are that relevant these days..._________________"We will lead every revolution against us!" - attrib: Theodor Herzl

It is clear that this site is hostile to Nick K after he was attacked by a prominent newspaper because he stated he support 'Holocaust denial'. There was no discussion about his views but he was just banned and labelled a fascist or fascist sympathiser. I am not sure why this subject is brought up again and again.

If this site bans debate about the Holocaust then can we please stop bringing up how bad Holocaust denial is.

Nonetheless, as I have stated before, disbelief in the Holocaust story is widespread among Muslims in the UK and abroad:

Contemporary Global Anti-Semitism:A Report Provided to the United States Congress

March 13, 2008

U.S. Department of State
Tom Lantos, 1928-2008

Holocaust denial in the Middle East is a relatively new phenomenon. In the decades that followed the Nazi genocide, the accepted attitude toward the Holocaust in the Middle East had been to acknowledge its occurrence, but to assert that it did not justify the creation of Israel. This attitude appears to have changed. In July 1990, the Palestinian Liberation Organization-affiliated Palestinian Red Crescent published an article in its magazine Balsam claiming that Jews concocted, “The lie concerning the gas chambers.” Gradually, throughout the 1990s, Holocaust denial became commonplace in popular media in the Middle East, particularly in the Palestinian Authority. The Middle East Media Research Institute (MEMRI) documents how Syrian, Iranian, and Hamas officials have, since 2000, all made Holocaust denial statements. In 2002, the Zayed Center for Coordination and Follow-up, an Arab League think tank whose Chairman, Sultan Bin Zayed Al Nahayan, served as Deputy Prime Minister of the United Arab Emirates, hosted a Holocaust denial symposium in Abu Dhabi.

Do you really want on here someone who asserts that the concentration camp victims died of famine ...

Largely proven true (see Piper) - so what's the problem? Would you ban a re-animated Kitchener?

Quote:

and that not a single person in Nazi Germany was gassed

Please refine this statement in light of established fact rather than this appeal to emotion...

Quote:

and that then publicly attacks London group people for suggesting he might not be an appropriate member of the public face of UK 9/11 Truth.

I cannot comment on that as I wasn't there.

Quote:

Maybe you better go too?

That, as ever, is entirely up to you, your perceptions and inhibitions, Tony. We are 'all in your hands' here, strange as it may seem ;-)

Who appointed you arbiter of the truth, anyway?

No, Tony, it is becoming increasingly obvious to me at least that there is something fundamental missing in your understanding of the unadulterated facts leading up to both world wars and the establishment of Israel - it would appear that you are still in thrall of the Big Lie, to a certain extent, despite your deep researches.

The world is as it is - it brooks no interference from limited perception and wishful thinking. Sure, if the entire world was Quaker, there would be no issue and no need for fora like yours. But as it stands no amount of ideology, however kindly meant, can save any one of us - unvarnished and unbiased truth alone will lead to Light.

I come not to praise Kollerstrom, merely to point out that he has something valid to offer, much like Bollyn, Bradley Smith, Franciszek Piper et al... Would you ban them all for the sake of your personal equilibrium?_________________"We will lead every revolution against us!" - attrib: Theodor Herzl

Because it is a classic example of the power of slander and propaganda to divide and rule? To destroy 'movements'? Because it clearly demonstrates the mechanisms by which the overly powerful maintain their Big Lie, often relying on useful idiots to promulgate same?

Because of the abiding relevance of my signature line and what it really means for 'the rest of us'?

'THE' Holocaust[tm] is now a blunted tool, largely owing to the research carried out since by brave and/or very determined people to unearth the reality and spit in the face of the myth-makers. Only the PTB and the brainwashed have yet to understand that... Why else would it have become 'law' to make illegal the exposition of truth?

Bear in mind archeology is now illegal in Israel - same modus, same terminal hypocrisy, same psychopathy..._________________"We will lead every revolution against us!" - attrib: Theodor Herzl

There was no discussion about his views but he was just banned and labelled a fascist or fascist sympathiser.

A quick search of this site shows that both 'the holocaust' and Nick views about it were debated endlessly, page after tedious page, well before the conspiracy files programme.

@ Thermate

Whilst I fully accept the truth of "We will lead every revolution against us!". There are many ways to see how this is true. One way, one strategy I believe 'they' seek 'lead' the 'revolution' currently is by

1) stoking disharmony between faiths and ideologies for example in this country by stoking and publicising tensions between muslims/anti-fascists and groups like the english defense leagues and their clones (a strategy of tension)

2) another example is to back/infilitrate both 'sides' of the holocaust debate and pump it out so that 'the holocaust' and its revision becomes a major issue within 'the truth movement'. In this way it is easy for critics like Nick Cohen, etc to associate 9/11 truth with holocaust revision and because it is such a powerful meme use this to associate 9/11 truth with 'far-right nutjobs'. Job done, revolution over before it started

Yes, ian, I 'get it' - the Holocaust[tm] is part and parcel of the mechanisms behind 9/11, 7/7, OKC etc. It needs as much if not more research than these 'isolated' events. What concerns me most is posters and moderators throughout the web who don't 'get it' and fall into a trap that covers up the reality for their own limited aims and perceptions. This is precisely how the Big Lie has maintained itself for centuries, isn't it?

Pah! Let's have it all out in the open - even our editor at least perceives the dangers of secrets and psychic poison, even if he doesn't practice what he preaches!

Movements are bound to fail the moment they coalesce under a leadership- did we learn nothing from the French revolution or the fate of Rosa Luxemburg?

@Tony - define 'Nazi' - Aryan Warlords? Plain fascists with damaged psychs and a problem between their legs? Agenturs? Gladio pinheads? Old aristos attempting to reclaim their power base?

What's in a label? It's those behind the labels, financing both sides that really need exposure - going after the Kollerstrom's, Griffin's etc is pointless - they are more useful to further general understanding by letting them speak up, IMO - no secrets here, hmm?_________________"We will lead every revolution against us!" - attrib: Theodor Herzl

Here's some common sense - if we allow the campaign to expose the 9/11 crimes for what they were to be sidetracked by people who, for some unfathomable reason, are determined to throw Holocaust denial into the mix then we are doing Babylon's work for it. When this campaign gets bogged down by slavering loonies like Mr Kollerstrom the "Intelligence" Services and the Black-Ops units can simply breath a sigh of relief, put their feet up and their kettles on and take the day off. They know it: we should too.

...if we allow the campaign to expose the 9/11 crimes for what they were to be sidetracked by people who, for some unfathomable reason, are determined to throw Holocaust denial into the mix then we are doing Babylon's work for it. ...

Bizarre take, Wakey - most uncommon and not at all sensible from my perspective. If you cannot see the link between OKC, 9/11 etc and so-called "Holocaust denial" (in itself, misdirection through clever semiotic fiddling) then you still haven't got to the bottom of the age-old mechanisms driving the planet to destruction, IMO There is no sidetracking involved - it is all part of one over-arching psychosis driven by sick, feeble old men under the sway of Baphomet, Mammon etc...

Words fail me ;-) We may as well re-discuss what happened to "Imam ghoft een rezhim-e ishghalgar-e qods bayad az safheh-ye ruzgar mahv shavad." in translation!_________________"We will lead every revolution against us!" - attrib: Theodor Herzl

... ... ...As it happened, it took me many years to understand that the Holocaust, the core belief of the contemporary Jewish faith, was not at all an historical narrative for historical narratives do not need the protection of the law and politicians. It took me years to grasp that my great-grandmother wasn’t made into a ‘soap’ or a ‘lampshade’*. She probably perished out of exhaustion, typhus or maybe even by mass shooting. ... ... ...

What this thread demonstrates to me, above all else, is the sheer impossibility of decent people genuinely getting their heads around the depths of depravity these sick old men descend to, unless they experience it first hand and come through it unsullied..._________________"We will lead every revolution against us!" - attrib: Theodor Herzl

We have had this same discussion many many times and so this will be my last comment. I know I won't change the minds of those that believe it is a wise strategy to research and debate 'the holocaust' alongside 9/11 as part of understanding the bigger picture, but I have to say to me this wrong strategically and I'm with wakey's statement of the bleeding obvious.

Yes of course 9/11 is not an isolated incident but is part of an overarching, age-old scheme of 'sick, feeble, old men'. And yes there are many, many lies and secrets about WWII that remain hidden but that does not mean that endlessly debating 'holocaust revisionism' is wise cos it ain't. It merely gives 'them' the ammunition they need to attack 'us' and that is why I believe the whole holocaust revisionist movement is in all likelihood riddled with state agents promoting HR precisely in order sow these divisions and associations between 9/11 truth and holocaust revisionism. It is also why I hold suspicions about Ahmedinejad. See UN speech thread, etc..........

In reference to NK

In my book it is undeniable that the nazis were hideously evil (but not uniquely so) who specifically targetted and persecuted jews. Granted elite zionists collaborated with the nazis against their 'fellow jews' for their own nefarious reasons but that does not excuse the nazis. So for NK to propose that the nazi camps were in reality glorified holiday camps with leisure swimming pools and recreational art classes to keep up inmates moral (which is what his paper did) is to promote wicked nonsense that plays to the views of fascists and hitler apologists and that is more than enough reason IMO for his exclusion from this forum. For this well done Tony.

Nick is not a very good writer but he IS an honest man who is focused on truth with a very rare intensity.

I know what he was trying to say in that article. He said it badly.

Commenting on the 'school trips to Auschwitz' he was pointing to some of the FACTS about the Auschwitz camp that would never be revealed schoolchildren (because they are, in practice, being subject to an exercise in trauma-based mind control).

The primary piece of withheld experience would be the viewing of the hygenic gas-chamber, used for delousing clothes (i.e. keeping inmates healthy and fit for work). Its walls are stained deep blues and purples from the chemical reaction that took place between the iron in those walls and the cyanide in Zyklon B.

This would raise questions about the 'human' gas chambers which show no such staining.

The presence of a swimming pool and theatre on the site are provable simple matters of fact though the swimming pool does have a notice in Hebrew beside it that says

"This is not a swimming pool."

Nick said these things to emphasise that no information would be allowed to enter minds that does not support the narrative of industrialised extermination in human gas chambers.

You know Ian, a bit like the treatment of 9/11 and 7/7 on TV since 2001.

This cannot be an alien an objectionable concept to people on this forum.

The 5000 parts per million of cyanide in the 'hygenic' gas chambers compares with 3 parts per million in samples taken from the 'human' gas chambers and 2 parts per million from background or reference sources (kitchens, washrooms etc) All these averaged over 60 samples.

In a courtroom this would count as powerful evidence that required extraordinary scientific disproof.

In our sick world (even here), this anomaly, and the whole 'official' story, must be swallowed whole.

what did Jesus say about 'gnats and 'camels'?

O Ye blind guides. Ye who strain out the gnat but swallow the camel.

If you cannot deal with this or recognise its significance re 9/11 and the importance of this too being discussed openly, then please stop abusing Nick Kollerstrom.

He has more decency, honesty and courage than the rest of you put together.

Continue to say what you like about me. Bigot and whatever else. I'll be posting an article on Auschwitz for Schools soon at
http://kevboyle.blogspot.com/

One excellent reason for raising these issues is to alert ordinary Jewish people, who are as responsible, but no more so, for the wickedness of the world than the rest of us, of the nature of their leadership and how this might all play out for them in an alarming fashion.

This was a major part of the mission of Christ, wasn't it?

To warn "The Jews" against their Satanic leadership?

Those Jews who listened, the first Christians, were (in my view) the true 'people of Israel' and Christianity the rightful and saving heir of the Abrahamic tradition.

We have had this same discussion many many times and so this will be my last comment. I know I won't change the minds of those that believe it is a wise strategy to research and debate 'the holocaust' alongside 9/11 as part of understanding the bigger picture, but I have to say to me this wrong strategically and I'm with wakey's statement of the bleeding obvious.

I go along with the idea that bringing up the debate about the Holocaust on this site is counter-productive but this is primarily because of the hysterical reaction of people within the 911 movement. The campaign against NK is not about an strategic issue of linking Holocaust debate with 911. The campaign is about encouraging hatred against NK and libeling him for a Nazi for taking a position that many Muslims support. If you seek to put forwards facts to defend the position of many Muslims, you get labeled a racist and the facts are banned.

NK is not the only person in the movement who is sympathetic to Holocaust denial. It is libelous to say these people are Nazis are Nazi sympathizers.

NK was not using the 911 movement to campaign about Holocaust denial. He was asked a question by a journalist and answered it as honestly as he could. As far as I am aware, he was breaching no policy. There was no prior agreement by people on this site not to discuss the Holocaust. That did not stop his banning and a nasty campaign against him. To label him “wicked” for repeating what the International Red Cross stated during the war is unacceptable. We should end this constant attack on NK. (Do we have an independent review of the state of the camps before the Allied army’s push into Germany?)

If debate about Holocaust denial is to be banned by this site then this should only be done if arguments supporting the official Holocaust story is also banned.

@ Wakeymedia: "You don't need a weatherman to know which way the wind blows" but you do need to get a better grip on what we are up against, IMO. Avoiding confrontation on this most vital of global issues by removing dissenting voices like mine is merely prolonging/sustaining the Big Lie - well done, if that is your intention!

@ Tony: Then it's fairly obvious that either I write too obscurely for you to understand or you only speed read, selectively at that. Besides, I think your queries have been answered conclusively by kbo234 - more than once and far better than I could, as he has personal understanding of your 'mountain out of a molehill' scenario. Perhaps this is why you banned him in the first place, for supporting his friend, NK, a seminal and effective researcher into 7/7?

Which brings me to another crux point: Why are you all so very defensive about preserving such a 'pristine' approach to 9/11 truth? Normally, the effective pursuit of criminals is taken on the offensive... so why the p*ssyfooting? Why this overriding fear of offending people (and their spooky minions) in high places when it has been patently obvious for years now that these are the very people we must be pursuing? Your approach reminds me very much of the sheer grovelling sycophancy surrounding public appearances by Rothschilds - the spiders at the centre of this vile web of deceit.

@kbo234: It's a pleasure to see you post here again - talk about 'turning the other cheek' ! I always felt very strongly that you, along with rodin, had been much maligned here for no good reason other than being just a year or two ahead of the herd on the real dangers of Zionism.

And this is so succinct, it's worth repeating:-

kbo234 wrote:

One excellent reason for raising these issues is to alert ordinary Jewish people, who are as responsible, but no more so, for the wickedness of the world than the rest of us, of the nature of their leadership and how this might all play out for them in an alarming fashion.

This was a major part of the mission of Christ, wasn't it?

To warn "The Jews" against their Satanic leadership?

_________________"We will lead every revolution against us!" - attrib: Theodor Herzl

It's amazing that people will go off on this tangent, this red herring, this wild goose chase of crackpots and Holocaust related subjects when the whole point of this campaign is to expose the truth of the 9/11 murders.

And there the likes of Thermate911 et al rabbit on & on & on & on about things which are irrelevant to this campaign and end up shooting themselves and unfortunately us, and the whole campaign by association, in the foot. It amounts to abject stupidity and ultimately quite selfish stupidity too.

All you are doing is giving Babylon perfect and very effective excuses to neutralise this campaign.

1. 9/11 Truth? . . . "Ah but I saw in the same writings stuff on Holocaust denial" - you're chances of ordinary citizens listening to anything you have to say have just gone to zero.

2. 9/11 Truth? . . . "Ah but I saw in the same writings stuff on Aliens and UFO's" - you're chances of ordinary citizens listening to anything you have to say have just gone to zero.

3. 9/11 Truth? . . . "Ah but I saw in the same writings stuff on Reptilians, lizards and shapeshifters" - you're chances of ordinary citizens listening to anything you have to say have just gone to zero.

4. 3. 9/11 Truth? . . . "Ah but I saw in the same writings stuff on the Moon landings being faked" - you're chances of ordinary citizens listening to anything you have to say have just gone to zero.

These things do us no good whatsoever but unfortunately there are those who lack the basic common sense to realise it.

Now, please shut up about them and work on exposing 9/11. If you want to campaign on the Holocaust or UFO's or whatever else you like, do it somewhere else.

It is ironically comical, on a 9/11 board, that the justification for ignoring this issue is the 'damage' done to 9/11 Truth by raising it.

You could just as easily say that raising issues about 9/11 is 'damaging' in itself.

And it is.

It does absolutely nothing for you in the eyes of most of the guys and gals in the supermarket queue........and for the very same reason. They've all heard 'the truth' about 9/11 in the media a million times.

So it's "Don't mention anything that upsets people by challenging their manufactured delusions."

I can accept that 'Holocaust denial' is something that can (AND OBVIOUSLY WILL) beused to batter 9/11 Truthers round the head with.

.....but please don't say there is no connection between the two issues Wakeymedia.

That's just plain dumb in my opinion.

Just about everyone has come across '911 conspiracies' now and those that do not know are, frankly, those that do not want to know.

I think that we should be attacking mainstream memes on all fronts. We should not be trying to ape the superficial respectability of the liars who are imposing and imprinting these murderous lies on the general public.

You carry on with your impression of the paragons of respectability, the Paxmans, the Humphreys.... if you wish.

I loathe the dishonest b******.

Give me the plain, if clumsy, truthteller every time.

There is no point weighing up the impression you are making on people every time you open your mouth. that is just pathetic.

You have just got to tell it like you believe it is.

And if it costs you, like it did Nick (who lost his income), it costs you.

If you can disregard their politics, their agendas and, in one case at least, ‘alleged’ felonies, armed with the combined knowledge these brave authors left us, mankind can overcome the underlying evil on Earth, heal itself and get back onto a more spiritual path.

And without bickering over who.sed.wot all the time, just accepting and working with humanity as it is rather than how you want it to be..._________________"We will lead every revolution against us!" - attrib: Theodor Herzl

No Kevin. I have no problem with 9/11 and 7/7 issues being raised ... but by Nazi apologists. That is just stupid.
These are serious issues that need to be understood by a wider society and if people who are making silly excuses for Hitler are involved the entire cause is very easily de-railed by the 9/11 and 7/7 criminals.

That's why it's so important and this fact is something you have never been able to see.

People like Nick alienate ALL serious researchers, journalists and people of faith by their Nazi apologism. Wisely, no family of a victim or survivor of either of these atrocities will have anything to do with him and neither should we.

kbo234 wrote:

It is ironically comical, on a 9/11 board, that the justification for ignoring this issue is the 'damage' done to 9/11 Truth by raising it.

There are what seem to be extraordinary FACTS that, to any fair minded person, need addressing at the very least.

At the Demos/911 meeting Carl Miller, who had failed to answer the Building 7 question put to him and who looked uncomfortable as he and Bartlett were not in any way winning the argument, said (laughing),
" What i'd like some "Troofer" to explain to me is why, after flying planes into buildings, it was necessary to have the towers collapse into a heap. This makes no sense at all....(and) looking me in the eye), "How do YOU answer that?"

A slight kerfuffle ensued with various shouts and jibes going on in the crown. When Bartlett saw that I was prepared to answer it he directed an invitation to speak to someone else. (Like ourselves, their position was fixed and their only interest was in 'winning' the game)

9/11 was primarily a Psy-Op designed to traumatise the masses into believing the "War on Terror" narrative the 'government' had prepared for the occasion. They had to FEEL threatened for the lie to bite.

I have not carried out extensive research on the issue like Nick Kollerstom but I do know he is an honest and anything but a malevolent man. I think the issues he raised need to be answered because it is quite possible to view the "human gas chambers" as an equivalent to the "9/11 controlled demolitions" as in........isn't mass murder of Jews bad enough......why on earth would anyone want people to experience this?

....or why the lampshades of skin, soap from bodies etc....stories were invented (these are now admitted to be false, even by Yad Vashem)

Maybe one of the most important parts of the experience was the psychological experience of people just hearing these tales of unparalled horror.

Maybe we had to FEEL the horror.

Maybe the empowerment of Zionism on the global stage demanded this.

Maybe this was a Psy-Op.

You say this is a wrong and evil line of thinking.

I say, true or not, in light of the harm done by Zionism riding on the back of Holocaust mind-trauma (this reality is obvious to me, if not Wakeymedia), it makes good rational conventional sense.

At the very least the questions deserve to be answered.

The fact that the response is name-calling and social exclusion should ring alarm bells to a 9/11 Truther. I remember the days when those kind of things happened to us.

If the facts were safe THERE WOULD BE NO TABOO ABOUT QUESTIONING THEM.

You cannot post new topics in this forumYou cannot reply to topics in this forumYou cannot edit your posts in this forumYou cannot delete your posts in this forumYou cannot vote in polls in this forumYou cannot attach files in this forumYou can download files in this forum