Hello and good evening(or what ever your hour is, i still hope it is good) everybody,

I am atheist/humanist, or what ever term you prefer on this case(for the most time, i prefer term atheist), from Finland. I have read long time cfi forums(but not taking part in discussion, until now), and i am very fond on discussing and supporting atheist themes with everybody else. It is always pleasure when people gather together for everlasting debates.

What I’d like to know is if the people with Sami ancestry are proud of their heritage, or if they try to hide it. Or would they rather not talk about it, similarly to, say, Spaniards in southern Spain who have difficulty accepting they are partly Arabs?

Boy, did I almost commit a social faux pas! I was going to ask him if he was a Laplander. What little I know about the Sami I learned from a Finn exchange student a few years back. I was more interested in their unique language and heard it was close to Hungarian and not North Germanic. He knew some Sami but he was from Helsinki. Outside of their colorful costumes and reindeer herding I know little. I did look up samples of their music and it sounds similar to Native American chant. They use the same instruments too, a large drum and mallet. As to the Spanish, they should avail themselves of the 23and me project. My question is why would they care if they had Arabic genes? I know you’ve been there; is there some innate prejudice against Arabs? I mean they can’t hide the architecture of the Alhambra. BTW, I’m finishing Harris’s book on nurture and it’s shaken my previous belief in behavior shaping by parents and teachers. Now I understand your earlier posts on the subject. I’ve seen these characteristics pop up in former students who were “problem kids” in spite of their home environment. I hate to admit it though, being the altruist and egalitarian that I am. it’s disconcerting to know that there are kids whom you will never be able to reach but after subbing for a behavior disorder unit last week I saw it first hand. One of the kids was bound to be a true sociopath. He related detailed stories about torturing animals and laughed about it. That was a bit chilling. He fights other kids at the slightest provocation. I know they were true because his neighbors called the police and reported him. He’s 14. Nobody even likes to think that genes come into play, but according to Pinker and Harris they definitely do. That’s not to say that we have no influence, just not as much as most parents would like. this theory flies in the face of everything I have been taught and believe though. Do they have any follow up books on the subject?

What I’d like to know is if the people with Sami ancestry are proud of their heritage, or if they try to hide it. Or would they rather not talk about it, similarly to, say, Spaniards in southern Spain who have difficulty accepting they are partly Arabs?

I think the Sami have some type of autonomus community in Norway, and Sweden. I guess that is an example of some pride?

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“I am back from Syria. I believe I have enlightened ISIS to the error of their ways. They are all vegan now.” - Godfrey Elfwick

Yeah, Harris followed up with her second book, “No Two Alike.” Here she tries to explain the process of how exactly we get socialized and how two people, even identical twins, we’ll end up with different personalities. The only problem I have with that book is that she never mentioned (she probably didn’t know it) that identical twins are in fact not all that identical. They do share all of their genes, but one of them might simply have more of some of the genes. But overall, it’s a good read.

I am not aware of anybody else having a crack at this; although there are a number of twin studies and they all speak for themselves. Seems like the rest of the psychology field remained frozen in their Platonic world of idealized “science” where they just know better.

What I’d like to know is if the people with Sami ancestry are proud of their heritage, or if they try to hide it. Or would they rather not talk about it, similarly to, say, Spaniards in southern Spain who have difficulty accepting they are partly Arabs?

I think the Sami have some type of autonomus community in Norway, and Sweden. I guess that is an example of some pride?

Yeah, I meant people who might have some Sami ancestry. Renée Zellweger supposedly does, but she lives in world where being a “minority” is looked at as something exotic.

My colleague, though, who’s mother is Finnish, has almond-shaped eyes, and so I asked her if she had Sami ancestry. She got really upset at me.

Yeah, Harris followed up with her second book, “No Two Alike.” Here she tries to explain the process of how exactly we get socialized and how two people, even identical twins, we’ll end up with different personalities. The only problem I have with that book is that she never mentioned (she probably didn’t know it) that identical twins are in fact not all that identical. They do share all of their genes, but one of them might simply have more of some of the genes. But overall, it’s a good read.

I am not aware of anybody else having a crack at this; although there are a number of twin studies and they all speak for themselves. Seems like the rest of the psychology field remained frozen in their Platonic world of idealized “science” where they just know better.

Thanks for the reference George, I’m going to read that one too. I grew up with identical twins and am still in contact with both of them. We met in the 7th grade and one was a close friend and later fellow teacher so I’ve known them for over 50 years. Physically, you couldn’t tell them apart but both had distinctly different personalities. One was in the band and a drummer, that’s where we met, and the other was a athlete and played football. Their parents doted on the athlete and not on the musician. Both diverged in adulthood as the athlete became a salesman and the other a teacher. BTW, both were ambidextrous. The musician became an alcoholic had three failed marriages while his brother the athlete had no major problems. Go figure. And due to lifestyle, they no longer look identical.

Interesting, Jack. Even my brother and I (or any of my cousins) are closer in personalities than this.

The twins also had a younger brother, from the same parents BTW who didn’t resemble them in appearance or behaviour. He eventually moved away, but both twins still live here in the village although one, my friend is now retired. The other one is still selling books. The differences didn’t really hit me until I read the Harris book as I had nothing to compare them to; they’re the only identical twins I’ve ever personally known.

What I’d like to know is if the people with Sami ancestry are proud of their heritage, or if they try to hide it. Or would they rather not talk about it, similarly to, say, Spaniards in southern Spain who have difficulty accepting they are partly Arabs?

Actually, the situation is nowadays a bit better for Sami people than few decades ago(actually, their story is quite sad; Lappland has been some way been kind a colony); missionaries were trying very hard to suppress their languages and cultural habits ( luckily, they did not succeed). Now there is a lot cultural activity; you may be familiar with a movie Koutokeino Upproar, and Mari Boine from Norway is also quite famous( at least in Europe). Land rights have been serious issues quite long time, because Finland has not yet ratified ILOs Indigenous and Tribal Peoples Convention. Serious issue is also how to save three different Sami languages.

Why did you decide to join only now, Little Bird? It looks like the party is almost over; I have never seen our forum this dead before.

Say something controversial. Anything…

Holy crap! And I thought it was just me. I was even going to throw in something about human biodiversity just to stir the pot! surely the Finn can help. Anything on your mind you’d like to share?

Cap’t Jack

Oh, i have lots of things to share in my head(maybe some of them quite controversial indeed); actually, i have been thinking a lot this concept of “post-christian” culture(Finland certainly isnt); that is, that are atheists ever able to escape religious habits and theism from everyday life and culture, even when the organized religion may be fading. I think that culture is so full of ideas of theism(in movies, in our ways of talking etc.) that it is sometimes very frustrating.

Are you ever frustrated in so called “post-christian” culture, which is still full of religious concepts and ways of acting?