Who was the Broncos’ worst first-rounder since 1990?

Sure are a lot of busts from the 2007 class and despot Mike Croel’s selection at 4th overall being floppish, we’re going with Jarvis Moss here.

Look, I know there's a lot of work behind crafting a list involving every NFL team over 25 years. But it's not that hard. And while everyone knows how I feel about Tim Tebow, there's no way he was a worse draft choice than Willie Fractured Ankle Middlebrooks, Marcus Four Career Catches Nash, or Tommy Successor to 31-year-old Elway Maddox (Carl Pickens!).

Who was the Broncos' worst first-round choice between 1990 and 2014?

Jarvis Moss (2007)

Willie Middlebrooks (2001)

Marcus Nash (1998)

Tommy Maddox (1991)

Other

Doug is IAOFM’s resident newsman and spelling czar. Follow him on Twitter @IAOFM

I saw little of the "hostile, rude, etc" that you claim, but I also didn't frequent message boards back then. Maybe I missed it. There are always tons of fans who know little about football, and who make stupid comments. There were dumb fans in 2013 who complained when we would run the ball, saying "why are we running when we have Peyton at QB." They're too dumb to understand football, and you do your best to ignore them and enjoy the game regardless. Annoying, but I don't let them affect me.

Do you dislike PFM bandwagon fans who couldn't name 3 other Broncos players, and only root for other us because of Peyton? Does it in any way diminish your opinion of Peyton?

If things get really bad next year, as bad as they were for Favre in his last year, I'm sure there will be "Peyton Fans" who will advocate that we keep letting him play no matter what because he's a legend, a class act, etc.

Would this hypothetical situation cloud your opinion on Peyton? Would you then proceed to take every opportunity you could to bash Peyton and the time he spent here?

Posted by Jeremy on 2015-04-08 14:59:23

I am and always will be a huge Broncos fan. When Tebow was drafted I was skeptical. I was adamant that we should keep rolling with Orton instead of giving Tebow a shot in 2011. But I'll admit, Tebow was easy to get excited about, at a time when there wasn't/hadn't been much to get excited about as a Broncos fan.

At the same time, I was ecstatic when Peyton came here. When it happened, I did wish they would have kept Tebow, but I understood getting rid of him, and had a feeling of "well, that was fun while it lasted, but we all knew it wasn't gonna last forever, and by the way we have PFM now."

I didn't frequent these or really any other message boards, so I guess I wasn't as exposed to the "zombies" as others were, so I guess my perspective is different. I probably shouldn't have called the Tebow haters "Bigots." I should have known better.

That said, if any Broncos fan doesn't have the same happy memories I do of the Tebow era, honestly I feel sorry for you. Sorry that you let other fans and his religion affect you so much that you couldn't enjoy some of the most exciting games in Broncos history. The Tebow playoff game (which I bought tickets to on a whim for $30 bucks), was a memory I'll never forget. And no one's religion or lack there of was going to affect that.

Posted by Jeremy on 2015-04-08 14:40:13

Hey Jeremy, how ironic is it that you're the exact type of fan everyone is talking about when they refer to "zombies." When Tebow was here, there were 1000 just like you. That was the problem. We're Broncos fans. And I for one don't give a crap about Timmy one way or the other. Which makes being called a Christian hater that much more yawn-inducing.

Posted by jonnydangerously on 2015-04-08 12:44:20

The issue here is that you can't follow the bouncing ball. It's either wanton stupidity, or simply regular old "he's just not that smart"-ism. Either way, you once again missed the point entirely.

I made a point. You claimed I made a point I didn't make. Your bad.

And I couldn't possibly care less how much time you spend thinking about my posts directed at you, but given that you respond every single time, generally continuing to miss the point, I'm going to say it's unlikely you care as little as you claim.

Posted by SammyDEEEEEE on 2015-04-08 10:16:13

Ya, there is no denying Atwater's play in that game was of MVP caliber, but let's be honest, sometimes games are won and lost in a single play. John Mobley had six tackles (tied for first) that game. Besides, you never forget your first time. Posted by Kush-Lash on 2015-04-07 23:31:38

Agreed. Knocking off the Steelers put a big smile on my face. It was hilarious. And, it was fun to (finally) see Denver win a game that mattered again. It had been too long.

Posted by toomanyrappers on 2015-04-07 21:29:28

Nash was awful, but Denver did draft him late in the first.

I factored in the value of the wasted pick. Moss is my choice because Denver spent so much to get him--and, he did nothing.

Posted by toomanyrappers on 2015-04-07 21:22:22

Atwater was the MVP of the defense that night. Mobley did his job. Going to credit Braxton for his perfectly timed blitz that forced Favre to dump the ball short to Chewie? Or, are we going to keep pretending Mobley had a great game?

Posted by toomanyrappers on 2015-04-07 21:17:06

only you could and a few others could have believed that a fox team would have lost all but one game with all of that talent around.

Afterall Tebow (in most logical fans eye) inspired the defense to play out of their minds.

But the. When you fail to make a point or lose one you revert to denigrating other posters. Just so you know I do not spend but a few seconds concerning your posts directed at me.

Posted by Lonestar47 on 2015-04-07 16:54:17

Ahh when some one does not have a legit response they troll and call names.

Actually I enjoyed watching the games always exciting a the way to the end.

A lot like when Dano coached Elway always 2 runs and then john had to pull out a magic 3rd and long.

Never a dull third down.

Posted by Lonestar47 on 2015-04-07 16:43:22

It's not moot, actually. That was the point of my argument, and the point of the article, in case you didn't bother to read it. Drafting Tim Tebow cost us a shot at Andrew Luck, and for what? We won a playoff game with a throw even you could have made, and then got murdered in the divisional round.

I'm not "suggesting he and the rest of the team lay down." It takes quite a stretch to get there. Big shock that it's you making this particular reach.

You never fail to fail.

Posted by SammyDEEEEEE on 2015-04-07 15:22:24

Isn't that cute. He's your little glory boy.

Posted by Broncorick69 on 2015-04-07 15:14:28

He would make some out if the world catches. But always near the out of bounds or EZ so he would not have to take a hit IMO. He was all works at HI but mostly because of the really poor DBs in the OLs WAC. Saw him play at UTEP once and it was a track meet catch and run for TDs. Seemed like he had 300+ yards. (Long time ago ) he was so much better than anyone in the WAC. But when he got to the NFL all the DBs were as fast and big as he was. So his strategy changed get out of bounds ASAP so he did not have to take a big hit.

Nash rambler he was to say the least BAD. Just one Ina very long list of scouting or more than likely GM/HC bad decisions. Mikey loved some guys and regardless of their actual skill set he would reach for them.

Posted by Lonestar47 on 2015-04-07 14:56:49

I think of it more from a talent perspective. Did the organization find talent? Maddox did great in the XFL, and for the Steelers, Nash was player of the year for his Arena team. Middlebrooks and Moss have never done anything though. So I guess since Moss came to us with such great expectations....he is the biggest failure.

Posted by Ryan Slade on 2015-04-07 14:46:09

I once described the season with Tebow as starter like riding a roller coaster: It's fun to do it once in a while, but you don't want to do it every week.

Posted by Bob Morris on 2015-04-07 14:42:42

I've always looked at it this way: A first-round pick who plays his entire rookie deal with the team that drafts him cannot be called a bust. He can be called an overdrafted player, but that's not the same as a bust. In today's environment, if you pick up the fifth-year option of a first-round pick, then it's a pick that was used well. If not, but you re-sign him because he played well in his fourth year, then you can call him an overdrafted player. A player you not only don't pick up the option for, but don't even attempt to re-sign, is a waste of a first-round pick.

The problem is some people seem to think every first-round pick must be an elite player. John Mobley, Al Wilson and D.J. Williams weren't elite players throughout their entire careers, but it's hard to call them wasted picks because they each contributed many years to the Broncos and played for the Broncos beyond their rookie deals.

We need to accept that elite players are rare, but good players are common, so what we want from a first-round pick is at least a good player who will contributes for additional years beyond his rookie deal. And, ideally, the earlier the player is taken, the more important it is for the player to become elite.

Posted by Bob Morris on 2015-04-07 14:35:04

You should go back and watch the tape of that game. Tebow made a number of good throws that day. One of his touchdowns, if I am recalling correctly, was a pretty big time throw, right on the button downfield against tight coverage. I freely admit that Tebow was neither consistent enough nor good enough at reading defenses to be an NFL starter, but he is not as terrible as many here portray him, and but for the media circus I suspect he'd be on someone's bench as a #3 QB today, on the off chance he could develop. Even Bartlett thought he had promise based on tape study, until his weaknesses were exposed and exploited.

Posted by Piglet62 on 2015-04-07 13:46:23

His problem was he could only do one thing well and that is run really fast. Catching was never a strong suit for him...

Posted by T. Jensen on 2015-04-07 13:43:23

I tend to agree with most of that, what I disagree with is that mike failed grossly with most of his picks.

I also know that after figuring out that his overachieving OL and RBs failed miserably in the playoffs every year after the SB group retired. As most of them came in UFA or trades.

When the rubber but the road I his last facade or so we for the most part could not score consistently (one of the reasons that Elam broke most adoring records) in the red zone.

He started to change the way to challenge in the RZ when he drafted foster went for the BIG guy 335 instead of the normal 285 guys they had at that time. He also went for another #1 in caldy 310 or so at the time.

So at that time he decided his smaller OL was not able to make holes inside the 10 for his vaunted ZBS. Combine that with smallish RBs 205-210 and they could not "get it up" especially inside the 5 Elam sucked up those 20 yarders.

I also believe that mike did not want to spend top picks on OL guys bcause they were not sexy. And took the leftovers that no one else wanted.

Got to go. But BTW Rod and Sharpe was already on the team when Mikey got here IIRC. SS might have been drafted by him but think he was already there one of wades guys.

Posted by Lonestar47 on 2015-04-07 13:38:26

Darrent Williams was an outstanding pick (he had potential to be an all star) and Foxy was a good pick as well. He was a starter for 5 years before getting injured. He also did a lot for the NFLPA and was very smart. Definitely worth a 3rd round pick. Paymah however was a wasted pick but two out of three aint bad.

For certain positions I actually like this method. IMO you can't have enough OL, DL and DB's. Especially if some of them have potential to play multiple spots within their position.

Posted by T. Jensen on 2015-04-07 13:36:08

Yet he was drafted, so that is moot.

When he was out in the game your suggesting he and the rest of the team lay down and lose on purpose.

That is logic challenged. You just pissed someone called you on it.

The true test of a response is IF someone changes the subject or in most cases as in this one you call someone names or denigrate them.

When those things happen you know you have won the arguement.

Posted by Lonestar47 on 2015-04-07 13:20:08

Mobley's deflection of Bret Farve's pass to secure the win in SB32 was worth all of the busts on this list plus some more. However I do agree, he ended up (despite late injuries) being a part of a very memorable, top of the league, linebacking corp.

Posted by Kush-Lash on 2015-04-07 12:44:26

I love this idiotic statement. "Tebow inspired that defense to play well, which is why they played well, kept it close enough for three and a half quarters while Timmy found his ass with both hands, then relied on guys like Marion Barber running out of bounds to SCORE WINNING POINTS you guys!

Derp derp derp. Lonestar: It Don't Get Dumber

Posted by SammyDEEEEEE on 2015-04-07 12:31:01

Even for the logic-challenged Lonestar, that's a reach.

I would have rather he wasn't ever drafted in the first place, particularly with multiple picks used to move up and get him. Not sure how that translates into "so you wish he would have laid down?", but I'm not inside whatever's left of your brain.

Posted by SammyDEEEEEE on 2015-04-07 12:19:59

Bigotry? Nothing to do with not being a quarterback? So I guess all those ground balls he threw on out routes...that was because most don't agree with his views? This has to be the single dumbest thing I've read in 2015...#winner

Posted by Zo Pruitt on 2015-04-07 11:29:26

That was Shanny's ridiculous draft MO... hit one position of need hard and hope one of the picks hits (too bad he often never hit). Two DEs in 2007, 3 corners in 2005.

Posted by Uncle Rico on 2015-04-07 11:17:20

Lelie's problem was he was laying on the ground after every catch not oob. While not as big of a bust as Nash awfully close.

Posted by Uncle Rico on 2015-04-07 11:12:59

Seriously. Both these guys were more than serviceable.

Posted by WhoShotBobbyHumphrey on 2015-04-07 11:11:32

F Josh McDaniels.

Posted by Uncle Rico on 2015-04-07 11:11:23

DJ kept getting screwed around by position changes and coach changes. Had he played in his natural position under a good defensive coach I think he'd have been better.

Posted by T. Jensen on 2015-04-07 10:59:14

The fact that we are discussing religion and abortion with respect to him years after he's gone further demonstrates that he was the worst pick of all time (forget since 1990). I would have rather suffered three 0-16 seasons with Orton that suffered his fans.

Posted by ohiobronco on 2015-04-07 10:08:28

I think there are a several players that out performed their draft position here, although you're right that at RB and OL coaching is probably a bigger factor than scouting. and also at OL we were looking for a different sort of player than most other teams, which allowed those guys to fall in the draft. But if you take a look at undrafted free agents there have been some pretty good finds over the years. Obviously you've got Rod Smith, but then there's also Dwayne Carswell, Matt Lepsis, Lenny Walls, Erik Pears, Matt Prater, Wesley Woodyard, Chris Harris, and CJ Anderson.

Posted by Hercules_Rockefeller on 2015-04-07 09:54:12

And he traded up to get Moss.

Posted by BlackKnigh on 2015-04-07 02:03:20

Precisely!! You said it better than I could have. I always felt that had Orton had a decent OL in front of him with a running game - he would have fared much better in Denver. The poor play calling didn't help either. Why aren't there outlets to a RB?Had TT stood up like a man and told his supporters to knock it off and that Kyle Orton was the starting QB - I would have had a lot more respect for him!!

Posted by BlackKnigh on 2015-04-07 01:55:19

His lone career sack came against John Elway in a blowout @ the SuperDome. We did turn Gregory into Saints failure and Herman Munster lookalike Shawn Knight. We had to trade him halfway through training camp before D line coach Rubin Carter killed him on the practice field.

Posted by Yahmule on 2015-04-07 01:48:40

Not moving up for TT could have ended up plugging a few more holes for Denver.

Posted by BlackKnigh on 2015-04-07 01:43:00

Had Ayers been put into a 4-3 scheme right away which is what he was used to coming from Tennessee - and stayed there - he would have been much more productive - and IMO - not on this list at all. Something about Moss that needs to be said - his rookie year - he was just starting to come on when he was sidelined with an injury. He never really got going again. He had a lot of abilities - just couldn't put it together.

Posted by BlackKnigh on 2015-04-07 01:40:01

your comment was

"Demaryius Thomas and Von Miller won that playofff game,"

I was throwing in some sarcasm about only needing 3 players on each side of the LOS of DT and Millers talent to win games.

sorry that went over your head. (again Sarcasm).

Posted by Lonestar47 on 2015-04-07 01:28:15

Thanks for saying what everyone else was thinking.

Posted by Leo Duke on 2015-04-07 01:04:13

Yay! We drafted Merlin Olsen! Now what? What's the point of drafting if you can't sign lol, I prefer the days when our mediocre first rounder actually at least plays for us. Floyd Little's a special pick though.

Posted by Leo Duke on 2015-04-07 01:00:00

I can understand the logic behind picking Moss. I get why we gambled on Nash. Maddox is plain stupid. If I'm judging off awful pick, as opposed to awful player (Maddox stuck around for awhile) you gotta go Maddox.

Posted by Leo Duke on 2015-04-07 00:58:34

He could hit DT on the slant though : )

Posted by Jeremy on 2015-04-07 00:56:18

I'm too young to remember Nash, but Moss was so awful. I remember I was so excited when we drafted this big time SEC pass rusher, only to have him be so so bad. I'm going Moss, because of all the hype surrounding him.

Posted by Leo Duke on 2015-04-07 00:56:09

You can literally just load the box and you're good haha. Remember the chiefs game where he completed two passes?

Posted by Leo Duke on 2015-04-07 00:53:52

No the locker room was still pretty split before that. Once Manning showed up the locker room was actually pretty settled based on everything I've heard. Surely you remember the whole bench Orton faze with players speaking out both ways.

Posted by Leo Duke on 2015-04-07 00:51:56

Fans really need to have less influence in football decisions, the pressure to bench KO was insurmountable.

Posted by Leo Duke on 2015-04-07 00:50:15

ok yeah, you can feel free to be nit picky. The point stands though, that that team was way too talented to have a QB like Tebow. I could go through the other 21 starters, and maybe even some select backups if that'd make you happy. There's a reason Manning picked Denver, that was a talented team.

Posted by Leo Duke on 2015-04-07 00:48:00

Thanks for saying what everyone else was too afraid to say.

Posted by Leo Duke on 2015-04-07 00:45:22

While I agree with you on principle, calling ole' neckbeard a good QB is a liberty I'm not willing to take.

Posted by Leo Duke on 2015-04-07 00:44:57

If he had been a small time college player with minimal fanfare he'd definitely have a job right now. Maybe not as a qb, but there is a place for him in the NFL. His fans killed his career.

Posted by Leo Duke on 2015-04-07 00:43:39

Amen

Posted by Leo Duke on 2015-04-07 00:41:47

I loved Tebow during Tebowmania, hell I had a giant fathead of him in my house, but he was stubborn. He couldn't hit the broad side of a barn, and had no velocity to his throws. If he had compromised, I'd love to have had him as a tight end or fullback. But as a quarterback, not as an athlete or as a football player, he was barely third string quality. He was a good enough athlete to squeak by but long term he realistically couldn't be a starter, and the intense scrutiny and distraction, and constant fan pressure to start him was much too great to keep him. I wish he had moved to fullback, he was an awesome athlete.

Posted by Leo Duke on 2015-04-07 00:40:55

^^^ thank you for articulating what I wanted to say way better than I could've @jvill.

Posted by Leo Duke on 2015-04-07 00:37:11

No, his fans were just simply loud and annoying. Kurt Warner fans weren't distraction, and he's born again. Tebow fans just wouldn't shut up about it I could care less about what they think he's paid to play football not go on a moral crusade. Sorta like how Chris Kluwe was a distraction, he was saying reasonable stuff, just too much of it.

Posted by Leo Duke on 2015-04-07 00:35:31

Yep the defnse scores those winning points.

If that was the case now come they did not do that for Orton?

Tebow inspired the D to play to win the games.

you are correct defense was a major player in winning those games. They kept it close for Tim to steal the games.

Posted by Lonestar47 on 2015-04-06 23:58:53

Mobley was more than borderline. He was a good player for a long time.

D.J. Williams was a decent player, too, even if he was never as good as folks expected.

Posted by DragonPie on 2015-04-06 23:56:45

Terry P until I went back and looked at all of tannys FUBARS I had forgotten about him.

He was supposed to be the best LB according to tanny. But as you said he sucked.

Posted by Lonestar47 on 2015-04-06 23:55:38

Tebow didn't have anything to do with us winning that Glorious playoff game that all you fucking idiots hold onto as if it is gospel itself. That was our defense. Our defense won all of those horribly close games, all of the comeback miracle wins we had that season, that was ALL DEFENSE.

Posted by Broncorick69 on 2015-04-06 22:55:59

OK, I had to go look them up: Trevor Pryce, Al WIlson, DJ Williams. For a moment I thought you were referring to "Terry Pierce" the second round linebacker who made a whopping 6 tackles in 18 games for us.

Posted by VonSwenson on 2015-04-06 22:27:05

Here is the way to beat the "Tebow Offense" LOL. Force him to throw. I'm sure Belichick sweated over that one for a good 30 seconds.

Posted by Broncorick69 on 2015-04-06 22:09:00

As someone who believes that on abortion and (nearly everything else) everyone should try and improve themselves, practice kindness and let other folks make their own life decisions, I can attest that saying so on most forums is a great way to get flamed. Jeremy's second point is a slam-dunk.

But as far as more 'fans' being a bad thing? They weren't Bronco fans. They were, in general, divisive, hostile and rude folks, few of whom could name 3 other Broncos. They littered the Denver sites with absurd ideas about how TT was being mistreated. Even several of the Denver players were quoted as saying how offended they were that TT wouldn't even suggest his followers to remove a billboard sign against Orton.

Posted by Doc Bear on 2015-04-06 22:05:14

Agreed. When Denver didn't pay Ayers enough, he had no trouble finding work. How is that a bust? For that matter, Jarvis Moss was picked up - by the raiders, but it's still a job. Compare Leaf to that? No way.

Ayers also noted that moving him outside was much harder on him than he'd spoken about, and the switch in positions may have held him back. I wouldn't be surprised. Going over the list, Nash is a shoo-in.

Posted by Doc Bear on 2015-04-06 21:53:45

Too arrogant? Or too senile?Either way that's the only reason we got that game to OT (plus a stellar defense).

Posted by bradley on 2015-04-06 20:48:33

Once Belichick figured out the defensive game plan to defeat the Tebow offense, we lost 3 of the next 4 regular games that season to finish 8-8. Dick Le Beau was too arrogant to change his defensive tactics.

Posted by Steven Searls on 2015-04-06 20:25:06

Please. He is inaccurate, never learned to read defenses well and struggles to pick up changes to the offense week to week because of his dyslexia. Lots of athletes are big tome Christians. Most of them never get the reaction Tebow did because he had a built in fan base that traveled wherever he went. He was a quality starting QB in College, but the flaws in his game were exposed in the pros. The media circus surrounding him did not help matters but his major issue was he lacked the skills necessary to be a successful starting QB. His best comparison, oddly enough may be RGIII, another great QB at the college level who, while a slightly better passer than Tebow, now looks very similar because of his inability to adapt to the pro game.

Posted by Steven Searls on 2015-04-06 20:21:53

Oh yea, that and he cant hit a barn with a football. There's that little nugget.

Posted by Broncorick69 on 2015-04-06 20:20:40

LOL. Tebow barely lucking into the playoffs and then winning against a severely depleted Steelers team had nothing to do with Manning deciding to sign with Denver. OMG where do you guys get this stuff?

Posted by Broncorick69 on 2015-04-06 20:19:32

When I think of Maddox, I want to pull my hair out. Bowlen should have escorted Reeves off the premises that day.

Now, I would like to go in a different direction. We talked about worst Bronco picks. But what about the ones that didn't reach their potential because of injury? Terrell Davis comes to mind. Also, there was a guy that was in Bronco camp in 1975 that was supposed to be a beast, but he got hurt, and never played again.

His name: Charles Smith, a DE that Denver drafted in Round 2 that year.

Pro Football Weekly first mentioned him in an issue that they had around the 98 draft in a section called draft "what ifs". They said something about some defensive end Denver had that got hurt and never played again after dominating in camp. If that guy was that good, what if he was on the Orange Crush?

Posted by John on 2015-04-06 20:15:02

so when Fox put him in he should have laid down and not won?

I get it.

Posted by Lonestar47 on 2015-04-06 19:39:59

I tend to disagree with you. IIRC he started in 1996 but could be wrong

that is a list of mostly 100 or later picks in the draft. there are a few under 100 but these are maybe players at best.

the only ones that stuck around for a while in this list for the most part were late picks of OL or RBs which IMO were coached up by either Gibbs or Dennison.

very few memorable (favorable) players on that list

Posted by Lonestar47 on 2015-04-06 19:36:33

"...the Tebowmaniacs would have become far more insufferable than they ever were."

No shit. They would have been running the team, or trying to. Look what they did to Orton, a good guy and a good QB. They ran him out of town.That's the main reason I despise Tebow. He did nothing to stop it; rather he passively supported it.

Tebow cost us a legit shot at 15+ years with Andrew Luck at the helm. He not only was a waste of picks, he cost us our long-term future.

Posted by SammyDEEEEEE on 2015-04-06 19:17:38

Also, I should point out that since the implementation of the rookie pay scale nobody has the bust potential of the busts pre-pay scale. Think of the money + opportunity cost that those guys sucked up.

Posted by codygras on 2015-04-06 19:11:30

It's a bit silly to have Tebow's on this list.Say what you will about the guy but we did win a playoff game with him as our qb.

Nash and Middlebrooks contributed nothing. Maddox was a terrible idea but Reeves was in a power struggle so I can see why he did it.

Wasn't Mike Croel ROY? Think that automatically exempts him from any bust talk.

The whole article was pretty awful.

Posted by codygras on 2015-04-06 19:04:59

give me an Amen Brother.

Posted by Lonestar47 on 2015-04-06 19:00:47

so if Ted said it, it must be an absolute?

many of his college fans became and stayed bronco fans some stayed when he moved on to the Jets and were fans of both teams.

Yes there were some zealots that were only fans of Tim.

But I'll bet there were more haters of what he should for than just timmy fans.

Posted by Lonestar47 on 2015-04-06 18:59:59

wow 11 on 1 ball we need to get one or two more Millers and DTs to make it maybe 3 against 11.

Posted by Lonestar47 on 2015-04-06 18:56:57

the locker room strife was after Manning was signed before that only a few morons trusted orton.

Posted by Lonestar47 on 2015-04-06 18:55:46

"Really think it just comes down to bigotry. You don't like his religion/stance on abortion, so you don't like him as a person."

He openly supported an organization that is an anti-women, homophobic hate group. Calling someone out for that is not bigotry, except in FOX News parlance.

Posted by Douglas Lee on 2015-04-06 18:41:41

I had to scroll down to see what you meant. That is hilarious! It shows you how bad of a trade it really was. If two random Bronco fans, use the same adjective (nauseous) to describe their feelings after a trade, you know its bad!!

Posted by WhoShotBobbyHumphrey on 2015-04-06 18:32:27

By the end, I felt that the Tebow fans and the Tebow haters were feeding off each other to create a toxic death spiral. I agree with both of you--I'll always cherish that wild run in late 2011, and it's one that I don't have any desire to revisit.

Posted by Nick on 2015-04-06 18:18:16

I had the exact same thoughts below, and also used the perfect word of "nauseous". I could only roll over that link with my mouse and go no further.

Posted by Nick on 2015-04-06 18:11:47

Hang on, I need to dust this off. *clears throat*

TEBOW! TEBOW! TEBOW!

That said, he was far more fun to watch than any of the rest of the people on this list so there's that.

It's simple though. If you want to blow your first round pick, you either pick for need, or you pick some turd you think you can polish. Neither of those work out in the long run. Sure, every so often you get lucky, but that's the kind of logic that makes Vegas a big pile of cash every year.

Posted by Steve S on 2015-04-06 18:11:45

I wanted Jon Beason in that draft so bad. And when we traded up I was ecstatic that we were going to get him... oops.

Posted by QDoc on 2015-04-06 18:02:27

I know this isn't a 1st Rd Pick, but still notable as one of the dumbest draft decisions in Bronco's history. I still get nauseous thinking about that decision. http://www.businessinsider.com...

Posted by WhoShotBobbyHumphrey on 2015-04-06 17:56:50

Well spoken. I thought the Tebow hate, was more disturbing than Tebow's following. Just enjoy that moment in time (or don't), and move on.

Posted by WhoShotBobbyHumphrey on 2015-04-06 17:44:01

That I think is the bigger point: Tebow had his faults, but the fans who worshiped him were far worse than he ever was.

And while I'm sure people would have had a different opinion of Tebow had he developed into a good QB and won a Super Bowl for the Broncos, the catch is that, had that happened, the Tebowmaniacs would have become far more insufferable than they ever were.

Posted by Bob Morris on 2015-04-06 17:42:56

I'll give him this much. He's less of a **** than most of his fans.

Posted by Yahmule on 2015-04-06 17:33:31

i hope so (being a keeper). The moving-to-safety talk was a bit unsettling, but I think that will pass.

Posted by Orange_and_Blue on 2015-04-06 17:32:44

probably some of both. my only point is that, over the years we've done well enough in the later rounds that it's covered up for some failings in the earlier rounds. Partly that's good scouting, partly it's good player development, and partly it's that we've put a slightly higher priority on the lower rounds and UDFA's than other teams do. For example, the broncos generally spend a bit more on signing bonuses to pick up some of the better UDFA's after the draft ends, and has been willing to give guys like CJ Anderson, Chris Harris, Rod Smith, etc. a chance to start over guys who were either drafted higher or were highly paid free agents.

Posted by Hercules_Rockefeller on 2015-04-06 17:29:34

1) the point stands, I don't see what other fans, or his media coverage, have to do with an analysis of the player. 2) There is a happy medium. Yes Tebow struggled to analyze a defense and what not, but the Tebow hating crowd swung the pendulum too far in the other direction. It's not just that fans don't like him, they love to hate him. Doug loves to bring up opportunity to take digs at him whenever he can. Many IAOFM commenters love pile on after it has been brought up.

One night I was bored and went back and looked at what Doug, Ted, and TJ, along with IAOFM commentators were saying, both in the midst of Tebowmania, and when we were pursuing PFM. It's very interesting. I wish I would have screenshot things as I went through and turned it into a blog post somewhere. Pretty much everyone was optimistic about Tebow after the loss (how could you not be). There was a great post by TJ after we had just signed PFM and traded Tebow. He talked about how he didn't care for Tebows fanatics or followers, or what not, but that he brought us a playoff victory. And that meant he had done something few QBs in Broncos history had done, and he would always hold respect for him and what he did. I don't get why more fans can't do that.

Posted by Jeremy on 2015-04-06 17:15:31

do you think that those late round OL guys were just great picks or coached up by Gibbs to be great ones?

Posted by Lonestar47 on 2015-04-06 17:01:40

well that tanny sure knew how to pick them (that is wasted picks) I'd say willie middlebroken, and Nash the guy that could nto get YAC if he wanted to. or was that lelie pretty sure both of them caught a lot of passes either in the EZ or out of bounds so they did not have to take a hit.

relaize that of tannys picks only 3 were resigned by us while he was here TP, AW, DJ (drag them down from behind) I think we can all agree that DJ was the worst resign of that bunch or maybe the biggest cap mistake. WIth TP being the second cap dead money guy..

Posted by Lonestar47 on 2015-04-06 17:00:19

Because they weren't fans of our team. They were fans of Tebow because of what he represented, as Ted detailed so well several years ago.

It's of course ridiculous to say Broncos fans didn't like Tebow because of bigotry, as there is a lot of pretty aggressive Christianizing in football. The non-religious/non-Christian/just-want-to-enjoy-the-game of us learn to roll with it. Tebow's fans, however, as Nick alludes to above, were well beyond anything we'd ever seen before.

I was pretty consistently told -- similar to what you wrote above, unfortunately -- that I was a bigot for pointing out that Tebow couldn't do a three step progression, read a defense, or hit the broad side of a barn under pressure. That there was no way to criticize Tebow without also somehow being accused of criticizing his religion. It was not infrequent that such name-calling and accusations came from people who also said, "I don't normally watch football, but I love Tim Tebow". They of course couldn't answer my criticisms with knowledge of football, so obviously I was just a bigot. I actually stopped reading most message boards, including the one at IAOFM, because one couldn't talk football without being accused of... yes, bigotry.

Many of these new "fans" didn't know anything about football, and blessedly went away when Tebow did. And message boards are now (somewhat) readable again. Most especially this one.

Posted by jvill on 2015-04-06 16:56:11

Can you imagine what the Orange Crush would have been like with those guys?

Posted by VonSwenson on 2015-04-06 16:42:41

In those days, drafting and signing were two entirely different things.Since none of these fellows except Floyd actually suited up in Denver, it makes me wonder. Were these just burned picks, or did Denver get some kind of compensatory picks for drafting guys they could not sign??

Posted by Alaskan on 2015-04-06 16:32:41

I'm curious - how did you spend a year in Focus On The Family hell?

Posted by tunesmith on 2015-04-06 16:30:40

"Next up on SportsCenter, will the breathless media coverage of Tim Tebow serve as a distraction to his team?? We'll cover this for you at the top of the hour, EVERY hour!"

Posted by tunesmith on 2015-04-06 16:29:27

Didn't realize it, but Marcus Nash and PFM overlapped entirely at University of Tennessee. Add Nash to the list of WR's who got their payday because of Manning.

Posted by Jeremy on 2015-04-06 16:16:43

Amen.

Posted by iowabronco on 2015-04-06 16:16:24

Even though they didn't play for the Broncos?

Posted by Jeremy on 2015-04-06 16:15:42

It means the player wasn't necessarily bad, where Tebow, Moss etc. were terrible players. So the talent was sort of there for Maddox but wasn't for the others making the pick a little more justifiable IMO. Had Elway been injured or decided to actually force a trade to get away from Reeves, Maddox would have played longer for us.

Posted by T. Jensen on 2015-04-06 16:13:10

Reeves and Elway didn't quite get along at the time. So its not totally absurd to draft a replacement. (Now you can argue that not getting along with/not properly using Elway is crazy but that's a different argument).

Posted by T. Jensen on 2015-04-06 16:10:56

Looking at Pro Football Reference, I can’t help but miss the glory days when the Broncos drafted Hall-of-Famers with their top pick, five years out of seven:

A pick can be bad for multiple reasons. In this case, WTF were they thinking with Elway at the helm? It was a waste of a valuable pick when there were other players available who could have actually contributed. I think the Tebow pick was bad for other reasons besides his lack of throwing ability too. McDingleberry traded away picks to move up and get Timmy in the 1st round. Most pundits thought that he'd go in the 3rd round at the earliest. Josh got anxious and overspent while watering down a draft that could have been even more impressive.

Posted by macomment on 2015-04-06 16:05:42

So that makes him a better pick? If he helps the opposition?

Posted by VonSwenson on 2015-04-06 15:49:54

This is a no brainer. You have John Elway in his prime, and you select a 20yr old Tommy Maddox, over Carl "Easy" Pickens?! GTFO!

Posted by WhoShotBobbyHumphrey on 2015-04-06 15:47:17

I forgot that Marcus Nash only had 4 CAREER catches! I think we were all still so happy with Shanny after back to back SB victories that we chalked it up to bad luck and didn't dwell on it. But anytime you draft a guy in two three rounds you've got to expect more than 4 catches (barring catastrophic injury).

Posted by Hercules_Rockefeller on 2015-04-06 15:40:52

To me the kick in the nuts was the decision making that went into the pick to begin with. I can understand missing on draft picks here and there; that happens to every team. But when an average guy like me can see the obvious flaws in a coache's thinking, that's a huge problems.

Trading up in the first round for a "developmental" prospect who only had one year of success in college and who needed to add weight/strength to be able to play in the NFL. That's classic Shanny drafting strategy right there: find a guy with upside and ignore all the warning signs that prevented everyone else from drafting him before you (see also Willie MIddlebrooks). I understand that it's hard finding talent when you're perennially drafting in the last third of the draft, but he took WAY too many of these types of risks

Posted by Hercules_Rockefeller on 2015-04-06 15:37:35

How could they have put Robert Ayers on that list with some many worse picks to choose from?

Posted by ValueLiberty on 2015-04-06 15:33:09

We've definitely been pretty bad with first round picks, yet somehow a nave to mage up for it with late round picks and undrafted free agents. Just imagine what are teams could have been like if we had some decent first round talent to pair with guys like Smith, Sharpe, TD, Nalen, Woodyard, Harris, etc.

That said, I'm not suite as critical of our first round pick history. Not every first round pick has to be a superstar; I'll argue that guys like Moreno, Mobley, Ayers, and maybe deltha O'Neal were good, if unspectacular, picks. Sure, they'd have liked these guys to turn into bigger stats than they did, but every good roster has a couple of high draft picks who are average to above average players. As long as they fill their roles competently they don't hurt you too badly. It's the string of total busts that really screw up a roster (for example Middlebrooks, Lelie, and Foster).

Posted by Hercules_Rockefeller on 2015-04-06 15:29:16

Looking at Brinson's list, he sure seemed to focus more on recent picks. Seriously, Robert Ayers may have been overdrafted, but no way was he a bust. He played every season of his rookie deal and started multiple years. He was on his way to a quality second season when an ankle injury sidelined him. Then came a coaching change and two defensive coordinators, and he had to adjust all over again with what was expected of him.

Ayers needs to be scratched from that honorable mention and replaced with either Maddox or Middlebrooks, while Moss falls to HM to replace Tebow (he may not have proven to be a starting QB, but the Broncos got some mileage out of him), while Marcus Nash takes the top spot. Four catches for an entire career, then sent packing one season later, makes Nash easily the biggest Broncos first-round bust since 1990.

Posted by Bob Morris on 2015-04-06 15:28:02

I still don't get why Broncos fans viewed more fans as a bad thing?

Really think it just comes down to bigotry. You don't like his religion/stance on abortion, so you don't like him as a person.

Posted by Jeremy on 2015-04-06 15:19:10

It sure seemed like the grand majority of those people were Tebow fans instead of actual Broncos fans, and they moved right onto the Jets when he got traded there.

Posted by Nick on 2015-04-06 15:10:03

Too bad they didn't go back two years earlier:

Ted Gregory. "I'm taller than he is!" said Dan Reeves about this guy. Dude was promptly traded to the Saints, and he played all of three games. Such a fine job of drafting!

Posted by Bob Morris on 2015-04-06 15:10:03

No, I was reffering to the addition of a whole new type of Tebow crazed braindead broncos fan who thought that Elway was only getting rid of Tim because he was "jealous". Demaryius Thomas and Von Miller won that playofff game, you can't say someone's worth a 1st rounder simply because they're better than Orton.

Posted by Leo Duke on 2015-04-06 15:03:45

Here's what the real kick in the nuts is for that 2007 draft. Shanny takes Moss from Florida in the 1st and then Tim Crowder from Texas in the 2nd. Not only were both of them massive busts, but their defensive end partners at *both* schools (Ray McDonald and Brian Robison) were both drafted later that same year, and both became hits in the NFL.

That was some *massive* fail by Shanny's scouting department that year.

Posted by Nick on 2015-04-06 15:02:44

Agree with the bias effect. My first thought when I saw the headline was Moss. After another 15 seconds, I was comfortable with my second thought: Nash.

Posted by MakeCents02 on 2015-04-06 15:00:18

Marcus Nash played/produced less than Smith did. Smith would be up there with your new rules, but I don't think he'd be the consensus #1.

Posted by Jeremy on 2015-04-06 14:59:17

The locker room strife that allowed the team to turn themselves around and win a playoff game???

Posted by Jeremy on 2015-04-06 14:58:15

Perhaps he's referring to any locker room strife that took place? Either way though, I agree with you that Elway was going to very swiftly snuff out Tebowmania.

Posted by Nick on 2015-04-06 14:57:38

Cutler brought us two first round picks, so that one counts for me. DJ Williams was pretty good too.

Posted by Jeremy on 2015-04-06 14:57:18

Roby looks like a keeper (or, should i say, a guy that will play himself straight out of Denver.]

Posted by drewthorn on 2015-04-06 14:57:11

Sorry but Tebow was the worst pick or acquisition/hire of any type in franchise history due to the zombie army alone.

Posted by ohiobronco on 2015-04-06 14:57:09

Recency bias would say Jarvis Moss. Watching him dominate in the SEC only to be utterly ineffective at the NFL level was painful. Especially given the context of our downward slide on defense post-2006.

Posted by jonnydangerously on 2015-04-06 14:55:59

I would have if he didn't. It's funny this came up, because I was making the point elsewhere that all three of the other AFC West teams have three of the worst QB busts in NFL history (Russell, Leaf, Blackledge). Someone replied to me with a picture of Tebow, and I just calmly said that most QB busts don't even get close to sniffing a playoff win.

But hey, I'm OK with people thinking picking Tebow was McDaniels's worst move, so it conceals what I stated above as the real loser...

Posted by Nick on 2015-04-06 14:54:40

You mean the destruction and division that took us from a team that had gone 4-12 the year before (and started the year 1-4), and took us to a playoff win, and impressed PFM enough to get him to sign here???

Posted by Jeremy on 2015-04-06 14:53:39

Still voting Tebow, given what we traded to acquire the pick, and the year I spent in "Focus on the Family" living hell.

Tommy Maddox also wasn't out of football two years after starting his first game, either.

If you go by Career AV or Games Started , it's Marcas Nash #1, with Middle Brooks and Jarvis Moss tied for #2.

If you go by games played, it's Marcus Nash, followed by Tebow, followed by Moss. Note though that this is Career stats, not just with Broncos.

Posted by Jeremy on 2015-04-06 14:51:05

i think tebow, while not that awful, was the worst pick because of the division and destruction his presence caused within the organization.

Posted by Leo Duke on 2015-04-06 14:50:03

If they went back a couple years earlier, Ted Gregory wins this in a landslide.

But even though he wasn't officially a first round pick, I still say this is easily Alphonso Smith. If they had just held onto the first round pick they gave up that turned into Earl Thomas...ugh, I get nauseous just thinking about it. That was McDaniels's biggest mistake, and it's not even close.

Posted by Nick on 2015-04-06 14:49:22

While Maddox was a poor pick for us, he did stick around for quite awhile on other teams.

Posted by T. Jensen on 2015-04-06 14:49:14

Never thought I'd see Doug Defending Tebow

Posted by Jeremy on 2015-04-06 14:48:50

Since 1990 I would say the only good choices are:

PryceWilsonCladyDTMiller

5 over 25 years (22 players). Ugh.Players who were borderline: Mobley and Cutler (only b/c he has remains a starting QB in the league).