Another user told me to search for questions about "hostility" on Meta Stack Overflow and that is exactly what I did. Many people seem to think that the Stack Overflow community is hostile, unfriendly or unwelcoming. I think this is a serious problem and something needs to be done about it.

This problem could be dealt with by making a conscious effort to change people's perception that the Stack Overflow community is hostile. This could be done by undertaking a positive public relations campaign to improve Stack Overflow's image via the expertise of moderators and experienced users.

What else could be done to make people think that Stack Overflow is friendly and welcoming rather than hostile?

Should the Stack Overflow community clarify what is NOT the purpose of Stack Overflow?

Should the Stack Overflow community clarify the reasons for establishing Stack Overflow's current rules?

Should the Stack Overflow community clarify the consequences of not following Stack Overflow's rules?

This question appears to be off-topic. The users who voted to close gave this specific reason:

"This question does not appear to seek input and discussion from the community. If you have encountered a problem on one of our sites, please describe it in detail. See also: What is "meta"? How does it work?" – davidism, GrumpyCrouton, DavidPostill, HaveNoDisplayName

I don't have the stamina to start this debate up, unfortunately. There's a lot of prior discussion (read "Stack Overflow is Too Unwelcoming"-blog post and the subsequent Meta nuclear apocalypse that followed). My takeaway: you're probably not going to get people to realize that we're nice because we're not willing to help them with every facet of every problem that they face.
– MakotoJan 10 at 18:54

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The problem is in the inherent dichotomy of what people want (a site that gives them everything they need if they post any error about ANYTHING in programming), and what Stack aims to be.
– PatriceJan 10 at 18:56

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We're, "hostile" because we refuse to be treated as a help desk, which is what all new users want. Free help, no backtalk, no criticism, just fix their problem. Their expectations are misaligned with the site, and that's what's been causing much of the disconnect.
– fbueckertJan 10 at 18:57

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It's hard to be nice to bad questions, but I've added smilies to my close votes. :-)
– rsjaffeJan 10 at 19:03

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Why should anything be done? The most people who think the site is hostile is trying to use it for the wrong things. Of course I will think the apple store is hostile when I show up in there with my Android phone and refuse to listen when someone tells me I'm in the wrong place...
– PatriceJan 10 at 19:32

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@Patrice The issue isn't so much pissing off people who are misusing the site. (Because quite frankly we really don't give a sh1t about abusive users other than to get rid of them.) The issue is that those disgruntled users are very vocal about their experience. So to outside observers, what they see is heavily biased negative - thus giving the overall impression that SO is hostile. SO/SE's approach to fixing this has been to appease those abusive users. This unfortunately has a tendency to piss off the veteran users - thus driving them away instead. No I don't envy's SE's problems.
– MysticialJan 10 at 19:41

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@Patrice Therein lies the difference between the people that stick around, and those that don't: effort. If you're willing to invest in the site, even just to get your question answered, you are likely to get what you wanted. If you don't, well, then nobody's happy, and it becomes a self-reinforcing cycle. You get what you put in. Put in nothing, get junk. Work to put in something approaching decent, and someone'll put in the rest of the work to make it better. It's fundamentally the epitome of GIGO.
– fbueckertJan 10 at 19:51

If you hadn’t posted the two more controversial questions over the last couple days, or had conducted yourself differently when replying to feedback, I actually bet this question would have been enthusiastically received and fared well. Anyway, I’ve upvoted, for the little that’s worth at this point. My take is SO is hostile, but only out of highly compressed frustration of people trying to use us as an unpaid lackeys to outsource their own work and problems to.
– Dan BronJan 10 at 20:40

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@COrNotToC I’m sure they are. I think the two major contributing factors to your earlier reception were: (1) proposing making SO something it is emphatically not, and (2) when told that, the appearance that you did not like and would not accept the answer “no”. That made it come across like you thought your desires were more important than everyone else’s.
– Dan BronJan 10 at 20:55

This is sort of a self fulfilling prophecy here. If your starting point is. "Y'all unwelcoming and hostile, change!", then you're going to get a more hostile then average reaction.
– MagischJan 11 at 9:57

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@COrNotToC Finding the community hostile yourself or making the "many people do" point is a meaningless distinction, and what I said holds for both cases. People don't like being called hostile, and "many people find you hostile so we should act as if you are" vs "You're hostile and need to change" is an irrelevant distinction.
– MagischJan 11 at 10:47

4 Answers
4

I'm going to use a bit of a tongue-in-cheek analogy here. Let's say we're building a castle. A castle of cabinets. Stay with me here.

So we've got a mostly finished castle, built entirely out of cabinets. These are well-made cabinets. Some might be a little dusty, or maybe starting to fall apart, but there's lots of little worker bees busily fixing, polishing, and otherwise maintaining them. People can wander around inside it, open them up, and seeing what's in there. Lo and behold, each cabinet has nuggets of wisdom in it. Some of it is polished gold, some silver, and maybe some dim bronze bits in the back. Not that useful to most, but some can learn from it. In some places, you see people putting their own nuggets into the cabinets. Some bees are working on them, too. Taking them out, polishing them, making them less lumpy, then putting them back.

Visitors are astounded at all the knowledge this castle holds. In the back, they see some people working on their own cabinets. Once they finish them, they take them to a part of the castle that's not done yet, and put them down. Once they step back, our busy little worker bees swarm over it. They might polish a couple, maybe repair one that's leaning to one side or another. Others are taken down and given back to their creators. Still others are thrown in the trash.

Over time, the castle becomes known for all the knowledge it holds. Anything you want to know can be found there. People flock from all around to learn and make their own cabinets.

Yeah, as it turns out, there's a cabinet making station that people can use. Everybody's given the tools to make their own, and some instructions on how to make a good cabinet. There's even a little bin people can put theirs in to see if it fits nicely. But most of the people don't want to make good cabinets; they just want the little bits of knowledge that go in them. These people didn't read the instructions, nor do they care about ensuring the castle stays standing. They just know their cabinet has to be part of the castle before it can get the nuggets, so they just quickly build it and wait.

Once the worker bees take over, though, it quickly gets given back or completely tossed. These people are very unhappy they didn't get their bits of knowledge; they heard this was the place to get it, so they should be able to do so. They paid no attention to the instructions, nor to the bees handing their cabinets back to them. So they won't fix their cabinet, and it gets thrown in the trash. They make a new one, still not following the instructions, and put that one up. And it also gets given back. Eventually, the worker bees get tired of certain people making bad cabinets, and refuse to allow them to put down any more. This makes them even angrier. Why are some people allowed to put up cabinets, and they're not!? This castle is the worst!

These people never read the instructions, so they didn't realize that it tells you that the castle is supposed to stand for a long, long time, so the cabinets have to be made very nicely. Bad cabinets just break, and there goes that hallway it was part of. There's even a list of things to do to make sure people can make good ones. They would know this if they just read the instructions and got to know the castle a bit before trying to make their own cabinet.

Some people just want the knowledge; they don't care that their cabinet is ramshackle and might break. Worker bees want the castle to stay standing, so they don't allow cabinets that don't follow the instructions. A cabinet can't hold another one if it's so wobbly it looks like it'll fall over all on it's own. What looks like hostility to these people is just the worker bees keeping the castle in good shape.

That's why people see Stack Overflow as hostile. They don't see the bigger picture. All they see is that they weren't allowed to get their little nuggets of knowledge. The worker bees are the enemy, as they are the arbiters of what can and can't be part of the castle. No worker bees, no problem. Never mind that eventually the castle comes tumbling down. They got their knowledge, and that's all that matters to them.

This is my third Reversal badge in as many months. I seem to be averaging one every month, lately. Huh.
– fbueckertJan 11 at 16:33

One thing I like about this analogy is that it would be fairly difficult to find a specific nugget in the cabinet castle without some external assistance.
– Don't PanicJan 11 at 18:32

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@Don'tPanic I think this is true only for those who attempt to search from within this castle. Thing is though, out there, there is another castle built to help in searches, I use is few times a day average and it always manages to help me find needed cabinet - without any external assistance
– gnatJan 11 at 18:44

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@gnat Yeah, I definitely agree! That other castle is actually what I was thinking of as "external assistance". I probably could have phrased that better
– Don't PanicJan 11 at 21:12

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@fbueckert I have marked your answer as the accepted answer because it has received the most amount of votes from the community.
– COrNotToCJan 31 at 17:06

There's no need to do such a thing. This was even codified in the early public discussions of the site and how it would function.

By creating a site that expects quality content, and provides its users with moderation tools to encourage quality content, the site would attract experts; the people who actually provide the really great content. People that post great answers loved being a part of a community that curated questions, enforced standards, and empowered those experts with tools to help enforce them.

When you create a site where the experts want to contribute everyone else will go to them. People with a problem who are looking for a solution are going to go wherever the people posting good answers are. Even if they don't like the sites UI, even if they have annoying rules that expect them to do *gasp* work to put together their question. Whatever it takes, that's where they'll go, because that's where the answers are.

And it worked. The site created a place where experts wanted to be, so the experts went there, and because that's where the experts went, that's where people went to ask their questions, because when they asked elsewhere, even though it might feel good to have people tell you you asked a great question (even if you didn't), and no one will dare tell you that you did anything wrong in how you asked it you won't get an answer, or it won't be a good enough answer. So you keep searching, until someone eventually forces you to improve your question enough that it actually becomes answerable.

That's a core part of the site's model. It's what allowed it to grow to become so successful, and to maintain that success over many years. What the site has to fear isn't a small minority of people consistently asking low quality questions complaining about how they don't like how hard it is to do (because asking good questions is most certainly hard), but other sites creating a place experts would rather be to answer questions. They're the users that actually have a choice in where to go.

And yes, that means having to live with the fact that some people are going to be upset at the site and call it "hostile". Well, you can't please everyone. Trying to please the people asking low quality questions that think the site is hostile is going to result in the experts thinking you're treating them in a hostile manner.

Doing nothing will solve nothing. That could be the root of the problem.
– COrNotToCJan 11 at 12:45

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That assumes an agreement that there’s a “problem” in the first place, don’t forget. I see what you’re describing as an inevitable, not to mention somewhat useful, consequence, not a problem
– CliveJan 11 at 13:27

@Clive By acknowledging there is a problem, a solution can be found. Why is there a blog post entitled "Stack Overflow Isn’t Very Welcoming. It’s Time for That to Change." in the first place?
– COrNotToCJan 11 at 13:44

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@COrNotToC The problem with what you just said, is a lot of people don't agree with the blog post either, and a lot of veteran users felt unwelcomed/attacked BECAUSE of it.
– GrumpyCroutonJan 11 at 13:45

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Because shareholders and investors @COrNotToC. Not because standards and quality, the things a lot of us have spent a lot of time and effort ensuring over the years. I have completely acknowledged what you’re saying, and my conclusion, like a lot of others’, is that there’s no problem to find a solution for. That some people will thrive in this environment better than others is inevitable, and the environment is a good one, so many don’t want to see it changed. In fact many will fight (insofar as that word applies here) to make sure we don’t dumb this place down
– CliveJan 11 at 13:47

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@COrNotToC You are correct that doing nothing will not solve the problem of a small handful of users being upset that their highly problematic actions on this site are inappropriate and that they are forced to either make the type of contributions that we consider acceptable, or not ask questions here. I consider that "working as intended". That behavior didn't prevent the site from becoming successful, it didn't prevent the site from continuing to be very successful for many years (a long time in internet time). The site can't be everything to everyone, it needs to pick its audience.
– ServyJan 11 at 14:21

@Servy The clarifications that I have suggested/requested may cause a reduction in the behaviours that you have described. They could also refine Stack Overflow and remove misconceptions about it. These clarifications could make Stack Overflow even more successful and make it seem less hostile.
– COrNotToCJan 11 at 15:38

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@COrNotToC All of the things you're suggesting be "clarified" are already explained to users in numerous places, often rather forcefully. Clearly you, and others like you, just *don't care what the site is, what it's for, how it should be used, why we do what we do, and the consequences for behaving inappropriately, despite being presented with that information repeatedly. That we present users with this information so much may reduce it some, but obviously it doesn't reduce it entirely. We can only help people like you so much.
– ServyJan 11 at 15:49

@COrNotToC What suggestions? "clarify what is NOT the purpose of Stack Overflow"? The tour does that by explaing what Stack Overflow IS. "clarify the reasons for establishing Stack Overflow's current rules"? The rules are established to further the goal of "build(ing) a library of detailed answers to every question about programming." (from the tour)and to keep content high quality. "clarify the consequences of not following Stack Overflow's rules"? What happens anywhere that you don't follow the rules?
– GrumpyCroutonJan 11 at 15:51

What else could be done to make people think that Stack Overflow is friendly and welcoming rather than hostile?

Stack Overflow is friendly and welcoming. Just like Universities are; you can learn, teach, browse, chat... However, if you start spray painting the walls, then things get a little hostile.

It would be nice to hear on social media from the millions of people who Stack Overflow helped, aside from the handful of vocal spray painters. #howSOhelped perhaps? If Stack Overflow has helped you, perhaps take a second to write a quick tweet, or even a full medium article. We should dispel the notion that the only emotion people take from here is negative.

Advice them to find a deal with the rules and to try other SE sites.

The supressive nature of the old internet communities is not an SE-specific problem, so is it going everywhere on the net since the first irc channels and usenet groups. What is unique in the SE:

The SE company is a profit-oriented company, its business success is highly dependent on the reputation of the SO. That obviously makes them to inherently oppose this supressivity. Why they don't do more against it, it is a good question. I think they are trying, but also their capabilities are limited on various reasons (they need to fight crap content, they can't expel the super productive users even if they are little bit hostile, they need to provide an illusion of some "democracy", they need to hide that actually there is much lesser answerers as the system would need, and so on).

On a facebook group, or on an ancient irc channel, you have no way to defend yourself. You can be banned from the channel or from the facebook site from the owners/admins on any reason. They don't need to provide a reason, or can provide any false or evil reason. On the SO, you have. If you go to 3k, you can vote to leave open/reopen posts. If they were evil with you, you can go to the meta and they can't do anything, except that they give 20 downvotes to you (what doesn't affect your reputation).

Furthermore, large systems tend to become a slave of their own rules. What you want with a question, is not contradicting these rules, it is independent from them. So you have always possibilities to get what you want, while you keep following the rules. We can say, you are free to hack this quasi-legal system, but I think saying that "find a deal with the system" is a better description.

Furthermore, not the SO is the only SE site. Other sites are often much more liberal in same aspects. For example, it is quite possible that you are allowed to ask for teaching materials in a topic, and similar things looking heretic with an SO eye.