Nose. Complex, earthy, herbal, some oak still, cherry, not much change over 2 hrs or a day later.

Initial entry thoughts. Very much old world in style, soft tannins, cherry, earthy. Good acidity and balance, long black fruit finish. "Claret lovers will appreciate this" from other side of the table. Cannot figure out how I have never tasted this wine before.Not many like this these days from Argentina, went well with humus and NY steak. Buy more tomorrow!

Bob, the last Cavas de Weinert which I had was from 1993, I think, and very good too. Alas I don't know where to get it here any more. It seems that people buying wine from Argentina are not looking for this restrained and classical style .

From what Oswaldo wrote in a previous thread, it seems that the same applies to the Argentinian public .

I was surprised to see this thread pop up today as the wife and I enjoyed a 1985 Cavas de weinert just a few days ago with a filet mignon dinner. 60% Cab, 30% Malbec and 10% Merlot. If the new releases are anything like this oldie, I can definitely vouch for the fact that this wine ages well! The color was a medium dark red with no bricking at the edges and the wine tasted fresh and very well balanced with mellow resolved tannin and good acidity. It had a sort of low level fruitiness to go along with the earthy qualities of a well aged wine.

I noticed Tim referred to the Cavas de Weinert as a classical style wine. I wonder what the ABV of the 1993 was? At 14.5% the 2002 wouldn't seem to be nearly as classical as the 1985 which, while full flavored and thoroughly enjoyable at the ripe old age of 25 years, clocked in at only 12%. I miss the many wines that used to be available at around 12% and which could still provide so much enjoyment! No problem driving home after splitting those bottles with the significant other at one's favorite BYOB joint!

Still have one Cavas left and also three bottles of the 1985 Cabernet Sauvignon which weighs in at 13% ABV . Gonna pop one of the Cabs next time steak is on the menu and I'll bet it will be a treat!

Bob Parsons Alberta. wrote:That was a 1985! Wonder how recent vintages will last?

Well you've sampled one Bob, what do you think? When it comes to ageability, I mostly defer to the opinions of those whose job it is to know such things or who seem to have good insights. Then once I've acquired an ageable wine, of which I usually buy multiple bottles, I sample it periodically looking for that sweet spot. At my age, I've stopped buying long agers. Gotta leave the 20 year investigations to you young whipper snappers! When I am 79 years old I suppose I'll be working on polishing off what remains of my cellar or perhaps trying to figure out what planet I'm on!

If I see that '03 Cavas I'm gonna pick one up and we'll compare notes.

Tom V wrote:I noticed Tim referred to the Cavas de Weinert as a classical style wine. I wonder what the ABV of the 1993 was? At 14.5% the 2002 wouldn't seem to be nearly as classical as the 1985 which, while full flavored and thoroughly enjoyable at the ripe old age of 25 years, clocked in at only 12%.

Alas, reports are that Weinert have not been resisting the $ temptation and have been modernizing their style. I was hoping they would confine this to the monovarietals and leave the Cavas alone as part of a two pronged approach, but I'm not so sure if that's not just wishful thinking on my part. As Alejandro pointed out, Bodegas Lopez are another excellent source for the out-of-favor traditional style, but I have no news of what's been going on there in terms of sticking to their guns or adapting to the new trends.

"I went on a rigorous diet that eliminated alcohol, fat and sugar. In two weeks, I lost 14 days." Tim Maia, Brazilian singer-songwriter.

Tom, I suspect from my notes that the `02 is not for the long haul. I should have been more diligent and purchased past vintages I guess. Plus I never picked up more of the `02 but see there are 6 places in town that might carry this vintage still?Try to find the `03 and we can indeed compare TNs!

Bob Parsons Alberta. wrote:That was a 1985! Wonder how recent vintages will last?

Bob, my guess is not nearly so good! Speaking of 85's, I do have a few Cal Cabs from that vintage, so maybe an opportunity will present it's self. I don't write many tns' but I will when I open one of those baby's. (or should I say gray beards?)

Bob H. wrote:" Speaking of 85's, I do have a few Cal Cabs from that vintage, so maybe an opportunity will present it's self. I don't write many tns' but I will when I open one of those baby's. (or should I say gray beards?)"

I bought quite a few '85 Cal Cabs way back when and still have more than a few in my cellar. I've been enjoying them over the years and they've held up very well. Almost without exception the ones that I have popped over the past several years have been very enjoyable. Definitely post your notes, I will be interested to see which wines you have and how they are. Tom V

I thought I would rekindle this thread as I am just about to open the `03 Gran Vino so join in if you want this weekend.Will go nicely, on a cold winters night, with some food as an Alberta clipper passes through, hear 50 cms of snow around Nerlandia, just north of us.

I had a 2000 regular Malbec a few weeks ago that was just lovely, and total proof that they can, if they want to, make old-fashioned, balanced wines. I have a few 2002 Grans stashed away, but am giving them more time. Depending on how your 2003 performs, I'll open one.

"I went on a rigorous diet that eliminated alcohol, fat and sugar. In two weeks, I lost 14 days." Tim Maia, Brazilian singer-songwriter.

November this year I bought Cavas 2004 and Malbec 2005 from Weinert. Style seems unchanged. Cavas need some years more to fully develop. Malbec maybe one or two.Bought Montchenot 97 and Chateaux Vieux 2002 from Lopez too. Same old good wines. A little bretty, why not?Angelica Zapata Malbec Alta 2006, at least ten years more. Still very good wine from Catena Zapata.Quimera 2007, Achával-Ferrer, I´d say ten years too. Malbec 2009 from the same, good to drink now, but I´d guess more three years will reward better.Colomé Torrontés 2009, not to my liking but very good wine for torrontés palates.Amazing prices outside Mendoza, Buenos Aires and tourists destinations (I´ve been to Corrientes).All those, if you want are willing to take the risks, you can buy on supermarkets. But, this make specialized stores keep their heads down.

2000 Cavas de Weinert Reserva Malbec 13.5%100% Malbec. Cherry, plums, leather and tobacco. Excellent acid/sweet balance, fine texture, satisfying body. Simply delicious, and equally notable for what’s not there. I comment to Marcia that it tastes like an ideal (not point-driven) cru bourgeois Bordeaux. She disagrees, saying that “Bordeaux is a Chilean thing,” and “this has a bit too much sweetness and jamminess to be Bordeaux.” Anyway, more evidence that grapes can be picked in Mendoza at less than super mature levels without green tannins.

2002 Cavas de Weinert Gran Vino 14.5%Malbec, Cabernet Sauvignon and Merlot. Three years in French oak barrels. Plumbs the depths of plum jam with a herbal note, and it’s about thyme. Strong alcohol and powerful tannins interfere with the proper detection of acidity, but overall there’s a military-industrial complex of confrontational yin forces to all together balance the comforting yang of sweetness. Oak is present, luckily not egregious, so pleasure is only truly inhibited by ripeness beyond the point of no evaporation. Uncomfortably close to the dark side for a Weinert. They must be hearing the call of Mammon.

2003 Achával-Ferrer Finca Mirador Malbec Mendoza 13.5%One of the most highly celebrated and pointy Argentine malbecs. Ungrafted vines, over 40Y old, aged 13M in new French oak. Elegant and serious blackberry and menthol aromas with a slightly metallic edge and a touch of epoxy. No oak in the aromas, but it can be tasted; as well integrated as the civilized alcohol. Quite tannic, with a bitter finish that lessens with food. Considerable acidity tingles the sides of the tongue, but tastes somewhat separate. This has way too much class to be an oaky and alcoholic fruit bomb, but the regal manners were more admirable than enjoyable. This gave more pleasure in its youth.

We know for a fact that old-style Argentine wines like Lopez and Weinert age well. People make predictions about how new-style Argentine wines will age, but the truth is that nobody knows for sure. None of them have reached the ten year mark, and it's quite possible that the trade-offs required to make them taste like 98 points at inception could make them fall apart over time. I'm holding a few from 02/03 to taste in 2012/13. To be continued!

"I went on a rigorous diet that eliminated alcohol, fat and sugar. In two weeks, I lost 14 days." Tim Maia, Brazilian singer-songwriter.

Opened with meals this week (Bob, did you ever get to the 03 Gran Vino?):

2000 Cavas de Weinert Reserva Malbec 13.5%100% Malbec. Cherry, plums, leather and tobacco. Excellent acid/sweet balance, fine texture, satisfying body. Simply delicious, and equally notable for what’s not there. I comment to Marcia that it tastes like an ideal (not point-driven) cru bourgeois Bordeaux. She disagrees, saying that “Bordeaux is a Chilean thing,” and “this has a bit too much sweetness and jamminess to be Bordeaux.” Anyway, more evidence that grapes can be picked in Mendoza at less than super mature levels without green tannins.

2002 Cavas de Weinert Gran Vino 14.5%Malbec, Cabernet Sauvignon and Merlot. Three years in French oak barrels. Plumbs the depths of plum jam with a herbal note, and it’s about thyme. Strong alcohol and powerful tannins interfere with the proper detection of acidity, but overall there’s a military-industrial complex of confrontational yin forces to all together balance the comforting yang of sweetness. Oak is present, luckily not egregious, so pleasure is only truly inhibited by ripeness beyond the point of no evaporation. Uncomfortably close to the dark side for a Weinert. They must be hearing the call of Mammon.

2003 Achával-Ferrer Finca Mirador Malbec Mendoza 13.5%One of the most highly celebrated and pointy Argentine malbecs. Ungrafted vines, over 40Y old, aged 13M in new French oak. Elegant and serious blackberry and menthol aromas with a slightly metallic edge and a touch of epoxy. No oak in the aromas, but it can be tasted; as well integrated as the civilized alcohol. Quite tannic, with a bitter finish that lessens with food. Considerable acidity tingles the sides of the tongue, but tastes somewhat separate. This has way too much class to be an oaky and alcoholic fruit bomb, but the regal manners were more admirable than enjoyable. This gave more pleasure in its youth.

We know for a fact that old-style Argentine wines like Lopez and Weinert age well. Observers, professional critics and wine shop owners make predictions about how new-style Argentine wines will age, but the truth is that nobody really knows. None of those from point inflation bandwagon have reached the ten year mark, and it's possible that the trade-offs required to make them taste approachable young could make them fall apart with time. I'm holding a few from 02/03 to taste in 2012/13. To be continued!

"I went on a rigorous diet that eliminated alcohol, fat and sugar. In two weeks, I lost 14 days." Tim Maia, Brazilian singer-songwriter.

Oswaldo.... if you want to taste 10+ year old wines from Argentina to see how they age, this is easily done in Buenos Aires. You just have to go to the right restaurant and make sure you have a healthy credit card limit.

Alejandro Audisio - drink wines from the RIGHT side of the Andes!!!ITB in Buenos Aires, Argentina

Alejandro Audisio wrote:Oswaldo.... if you want to taste 10+ year old wines from Argentina to see how they age, this is easily done in Buenos Aires. You just have to go to the right restaurant and make sure you have a healthy credit card limit.

You have/had a fantastic selection of older Weinerts and Lopez in your store at what seemed to me very reasonable prices. I was referring to modern style wines older than 10 years. Not so easy to find, I think, because the style shift, on a significant and widespread scale, seems to date from around 2002, when the big scores started coming out.

"I went on a rigorous diet that eliminated alcohol, fat and sugar. In two weeks, I lost 14 days." Tim Maia, Brazilian singer-songwriter.

The original thread here goes back two years and resurrected twice so far! About to open my last `02 Gran Vino but hasten to add that I have now seen the `04 on the shelf downtown.Interesting reflections here so will post further notes asap. To be honest I do not expect much change in how wine has developed the past two years.

Here is my note on the `03...>

`03 Weinert Gran Vino Mendoza Arg.

One of the top wines I tasted this past year. 14.5% alc. 40% Malbec, 40% CS, 20% Merlot. Should have a much bigger following, $25 Cdn.Plum, cherry on nose, some meaty tones too. Deepish ruby-red, very bright looking, slight bricking.Rich dark fruit, drinks great! Cherry, plum, nice balance, v good acidity. Could take some more cellar time but why wait.