How is this different than using the Google Voice app to send and receive all texts over 4G or WiFi to anyone you want, even those with just regular sms, regardless of what phone or carrier you or they have?

iMessage will be there by default. I have to download Google voice. Then trust them with my data

And yet BB Messanger was a major driver for BB growth in the consumer space and a huge driver for younger BB users. Don't underestimate how important even a non-universal feature can be. Apple is fast eclipsing BB marketshare...
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However with BBM you know someone has a Blackberry because they give you their PIN...With iMessage you don't know whether the message will cost you or not until you have sent it.

The point is that you want to sent free text messages to non iOS devices and iMessage cannot do that.

Sure I can. I just email their SMS email address. At least in the US all carriers offer them. I just can't receive texts for free. I could probably route them through Google voice or something, but it's just easier to not deal with SMS at all and email instead. Looking foreword to iMessage!

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It is also seamless in use because it looks at the address book

Other than the auto lookup across all users I would be shocked if iMessage didn't integrate with the address book!

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One thing iMessage can do and non of the message apps I know of can, is resuming a conversation on another device. This is an excellent feature and thats why I'll use iMessage along with Whatsapp to be able to communicate with the rest of the world.

Knowing Apple That's probably not the only unique thing . It will be fun to play with it tomorrow!

The reference was made to show how much profit network providers make from SMS. They're suggesting that you could send around 7500 standard length SMS messages with 1MB of network data. A MB of data costs just $1.20 (based on the plan they outlined) but sending those 7500 texts at $0.20 would cost $1500.00....

That's effectively $1498.80 profit for every $1500 the networks make from SMS.

The problem is that many people don't know what phone their contacts are using. So you have to keep both SMS and iMessage handy all the time and there will be times when you choose the wrong one.

Now, if iMessage were so overwhelmingly fantastic that some inconvenience were justified, that would be one thing, but I can't see that it's superior enough to want to mess around with the hassle. Unless it becomes multi platform and catches on significantly, it will be DOA.

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Originally Posted by lukei

However with BBM you know someone has a Blackberry because they give you their PIN...With iMessage you don't know whether the message will cost you or not until you have sent it.

In contacts it sticks a blue chat bubble next to the iMessage registered number or email address. It also changes from green to blue* if the contact you want to message is registered with iMessage

*The text in the message input field also changes from text message to iMessage.

However with BBM you know someone has a Blackberry because they give you their PIN...With iMessage you don't know whether the message will cost you or not until you have sent it.

You text large nubers of people blindly?

I can understand texting unknown people occasionally, but for the bulk of your traffic?

Now if you are an anomaly like texting for business or something OK, but for the vast majority of people it's just not going to be that big of a barrier. Heck, I'm shocked at how many of my friends and family use FaceTime which is far harder to use than iMessage looks like it will be!

I can understand texting unknown people occasionally, but for the bulk of your traffic?

Now if you are an anomaly like texting for business or something OK, but for the vast majority of people it's just not going to be that big of a barrier. Heck, I'm shocked at how many of my friends and family use FaceTime which is far harder to use than iMessage looks like it will be!

No I don't randomly text people (it's not me sending those spam messages )

The point is even if people do have an iPhone and iOS5 and have iMessage on then if either me or them are not connected to data then I will pay for the message, unless I turn "send as SMS" off. Facetime only works over WiFi so you know the situation, you won't with iMessage

It's not actually an issue for me as the company pays my phone bill .The point is that it is not the replacement for BBM it is being touted as.

I want to know more about how it works. For example, how does iMessage know the other user I'm about to text has iMessage? Can iMessage used mobile numbers? How does it work exactly? The simple facts about it confuse me. Would someone care to clarify iMessage for me?

It works like FaceTime...to my understanding that when you select a contact, you have the option of SMS, phone number or email address. You set up the app with user info like FaceTime. I thinks the iP4s keynote quickly went over that.

I already had the unlimited Data, Minutes and Text, So I talked to AT&T, about dropping Unlimited Minutes to 700 Minutes and all I was going to save was $40.00 a month, plus I call a lot of landlines and they eat up your minutes so not worth it for me.

Wow, saving $40 per month on your cell bill is not worth it? That's about half what my iP4 ATT bill is every month. And I have just basic 350 minutes and unlimited Data, but pay per use texting. I use on average 50 minutes per month of voice. I wish ATT would offer a smaller plan for voice, or a Go-Phone plan.

That's really shocking how some people have these crazy high bills. I can see it for a work phone, but if they are that high and your employer isn't paying the bill, you need to speak up man.

Then this will be a small pool of iOS users for at least the first year or so. Texts from my boss will still cost me 20 cents, because he will never replace his iPhone 3G.

Sigh.

Actually it won't be a small pool at all. The total number of iPhone 4 and iPhone 3GSs sold far exceeds the total number of original iPhone and iPhone 3Gs sold. Plus, a large number of the originals and 3G probably don't work any more because of breakage. Plus it'll work on both iPad models. Plus it'll work on all the new iPhonme 4Ss sold from Friday.

I don't know the balance of ipod Touch sales, but I can't imagine it'll tip the scale.

A lot of Blackberry users are running away from RIM. They know that they're on a dead end platform with no future, so they have to make a choice and quite a few of them are ending up on iOS. And especially since Apple has their own message system now, it will be yet another incentive for these people to finally make the jump, because their ship is sinking fast, and they know it too.

Still, if Apple really wanted this to catch on, they should have made an Android and a Blackberry app/client for launch as well. It really should be cross-platform, and Apple has a history of screwing up the adoption of new standards they develop in exactly this manner.

Why do they charge for the Mac FaceTime client for instance? Why isn't there an Android FaceTime app? Why didn't they integrate this into Lion *before* they release it on the phone? Why doesn't FaceTime run on 3G?

Still, if Apple really wanted this to catch on, they should have made an Android and a Blackberry app/client for launch as well. It really should be cross-platform, and Apple has a history of screwing up the adoption of new standards they develop in exactly this manner.

Why do they charge for the Mac FaceTime client for instance? Why isn't there an Android FaceTime app? Why didn't they integrate this into Lion *before* they release it on the phone? Why doesn't FaceTime run on 3G?

All great questions. Apple does tend to find a way to sabotage the adoption of stuff it claims it wants to be open standards.

Still, if Apple really wanted this to catch on, they should have made an Android and a Blackberry app/client for launch as well. It really should be cross-platform, and Apple has a history of screwing up the adoption of new standards they develop in exactly this manner.

Why do they charge for the Mac FaceTime client for instance? Why isn't there an Android FaceTime app? Why didn't they integrate this into Lion *before* they release it on the phone? Why doesn't FaceTime run on 3G?

1. FaceTime is free with Lion, upgrade to Lion. Don't wanna. buy the App then.
2. iMessage is for iOS devices. If you want it, buy an iPhone/iPod Touch/iPad, would be their response.

Accounting rules. Been hashed to death. Results of government regulations at work "helping"

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Why isn't there an Android FaceTime app?

Product differentiation? Long term strategy? Playing from a position of strength?

I would like to see FaceTime on more platforms, but I do understand why Apple is playing close right now. Esp. with the morass of hardware out there on Android - talk about not being able to ensure a great and consistent user experience. Yow, having realized what I just said - forget it. FaceTime will never be on Android!

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Why didn't they integrate this into Lion *before* they release it on the phone?

It isn't ready and its more important on the Phone than a computer?

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Why doesn't FaceTime run on 3G?

Err, it's missing a key peice of hardware - the front facing camera perhaps? The 3GS doesn't have one either - but your right, forget pesky missing hardware - Apple are just jerks for their forced upgrade strategy

If the price of averting another Enron is the occasional 99p app, I'm ok with it. I find it pretty helpful.

Enron was caught without the regs. We had plenty of existing laws, just no oversight.

But congress cant show they are doing something by increasing oversight - so they pass more laws to show they are "doing" something

It all adds up. And a significant contributer to our current economy. Obamacare finally pushed a good friend over the edge - he closed his transportation company and about 30 people lost their jobs. He now consults as a sole proprietor and makes more. And people wonder why jobs are disappearing?

Europe has more regs than we do and a certain banker was able to singlehandedly flush billions. Yup, regulations will save us!

Just saw another idiot protestor on the news that is covering the DC protesters and she threw out the platitude "people over profits". That sounds nice, but if companies don't have profits how do they grow or make payroll. Seriously, economics classes should be mandatory then again you can't force comprehension any more than decency. Speaking of, another protestor complained about people "not taking care of each other enough" - hey buddy, you can't mandate common decency. Not sure what you expect congress to do. Pass another law probably

The coup de GRAS was the woman complaining about politicians being focused on getting re-elected! I love it! Why the heck does she think the founding fathers there were against professional politicians and pushed for citizen legislators? Then again she probably thinks the founding fathers were evil, privileged white men and therefore full of it

So much ignorance - it's times like these I'm amazed our species, letvalone this country, survives.

I never said that. You did and you even sited failures like FireWire while trying to be snarky and sarcastic. \ The point I was making is that some of the moves they make ala facetime seem to go against their end goal...sometimes it seems as if it's deliberately to keep other vendors from trying to use their software.

You've successfully shown that cynicism and immorality exist, but not that regulation is a bad thing. That people get away with bad things despite regulation is testament to them being resolute in their badness, not that regulation as a concept is at fault (though individual regulations might be).

My wife and I only use Whatsapp and KakaoTalk nowadays. I even cancelled our AT&T texting plan and requested an sms block so we would not be charged for spam texts and texts that other people send. You know, the ones who refuse to use free apps like KakaoTalk to txt from their smartphones... That's how we communicate with friends and family here in the US and abroad, and we're glad the carriers are sucking a little less of our money every month

Does AT&T charge you for having this block on the account? I know my friend 4 years ago or so did this with Verizon and apparently it cost $5 a month.

I like both What's App and Kakao. I'm currently living in Korea and all my friends have Kakao so nice.

Also I have text+ which is free and it gives you a free US based phone number. All my friends that don't have a smart phone they use that to text me.

Note to AT&T: What is undermining your profits is your overpriced texting plans; not iMessage!

I have long refused to pay for texting; I simply choose not to use it. I only send if it is an extreme need. If a friend texts me, I will call them back. I will also ask them to call or email next time. I probably average about 2 texts a month.

My wife, on the other hand does text, mostly with her sister. She currently has a $5/200 plan. A few months ago, she complained that she can't text me to coordinate things, and we agreed that for $5 it would be worth it. However, AT&T was no longer offering this plan, and had a $10/1000 plan. This was not worth the price, so I continued to not line their pockets.

Now my wife has a 4S on pre-order. AT&T won't let her carry over her plan, the $10 plan is gone, and they are only offering only the $20/unlimited plan. Her decision is to not have a text plan, and stop using SMS. Her sister is on Android, so iMessage isn't a factor - it's down to cost of the service!

If AT&T still offered that $5 plan, they would be getting $10 from us.

Note: I am really looking forward to being able to use iMessage with my wife or friends with iOS.

That math is rather moot compared to the 1/1000th of 'our' cost that is ATTs cost per message. They could cut the individual message down to say 5 cents each way and still make bank

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Originally Posted by Neves

i don't even understand the concept of unlimited nights and weekends

All this free nights, rollover, free to mobile phones shows how cheap providing the actual service is. Probably costs the $3-5 a month per phone, plus perhaps a penny or all the texts you send and receive and yet you are paying at least $40 just for voice.

That the costs to them are so cheap irks. Especially when they charge the same rates on contract as off. If we bring in a fully paid phone we shouldn't be asked to pay that $12-15 that was supposed to be device payoff.

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Originally Posted by gwlaw99

I hear AOL, Yahoo, Google and others are already about to copy apple with "instant messengers" of their own. Apple needs to sue them quickly before someone steals their idea again.

Apple won't because they will use the same defense Apple would use. Internal prior art. All these companies have computer message apps and this is just natural growth.

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Originally Posted by Isidore

Americans pay to RECEIVE messages??? That is completely outrageous! Anything that challenges this sort of rip off must be a good thing!

Yep. We do. That said, I don't mind the notion of paying both ways, it's the amount. They could cut it to 5 cents rather than 20 and still make bank. They could cut unlimited plans to $10 and still make bank.

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Originally Posted by AppleZilla

Big difference if the latter. My boss has iOS 3 on his 3G and probably will for life.

You just need to make sure that his 3G has a terrible accident and has to be replaced. By now it is way off warranty and the geniuses will be your friend and push that it is financially a better option to pay $199 to get the latest phone or if he really likes the 3G style to get the free 3GS. Either way it will come with ios5,

A punk on a skateboard and $20 should cover it. Just don't pay it all upfront. And tell him it has go be totally destroyed

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Originally Posted by Prof. Peabody

Why isn't there an Android FaceTime app? Why didn't they integrate this into Lion *before* they release it on the phone? Why doesn't FaceTime run on 3G?

They put out that anyone could license to include FaceTime. No one bit. Apple should not be required to make versions for everyone else.

Who is to say that we won't get an iChat update In a week that does integrate imessages.

Anything that makes cell carriers more generic is good. iMessage is a good move. I'm looking forward to the day when my iPhone will automatically switch to whichever carrier happens to have the strongest signal and fastest data speeds at the moment.

That would force carriers to compete on the quality of their service instead of by how well they can lock in their subscribers. But no, I'm not holding my breath.

AT&T now offer its subscribers two choices, a $20 per month unlimited text plan or a flat 20-cent fee per sent and received message. The carrier's previous plan of $10 per month for 1,000 text messages is no longer available.

There used to be a $5/mo 200 message plan too. I signed up for it last summer with my iPhone 4.

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Originally Posted by Orlando

SMS is more expensive per message sent but data plans costs a lot more per month so average phone bills are going up; I therefore doubt carriers are complaining that much.

What? Where do you pull this from? If you have an iPhone, you probably have a data plan already, so your marginal cost should be zero. You get so much more value from a data plan than you can ever get with an SMS plan.

FireWire might not be as ubiquitous as USB, but it's hardly a failure. Pick up all but some the most recent camcorders - they all have FireWire. USB was a failure until Apple picked it up. I languished for two years while being ignored by the PC industry until it had legs from the success of the iMac.

Name me ONE thing the PC industry has pushed and has changed the way we use computers. Heck, even Dell being a major proponent of DisplayPort long before Apple didn't help it's adoption. But Apple did - now you can find PC only ATI video cards with four and five mini-display (gasp!) ports on them.

Apple has been the tail wagging the industry dog for decades. Now with the iPod and iOS, they are becoming the dog. There was a reason Tim Cooked spoke several minutes about Mac sales at the event to announce the new iPhone and iOS.

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while trying to be snarky and sarcastic. \

I wasn't trying, I was...

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The point I was making is that some of the moves they make ala facetime seem to go against their end goal...

So now you know Apple's end goals? Care to share?

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sometimes it seems as if it's deliberately to keep other vendors from trying to use their software.

Or how about them trying to prevent competitors from benefiting from Apple technology for free?

Frankly, I now no longer see the need for FaceTime on other platforms. With the 3G, iPod Touch and iPad its pretty easy to get to FaceTime. And the experience will be consistent every time.

While it sounds trivial to just make FaceTime available on other platforms, it's not that simple. Ever tried to do video chatting with Skype? A total nghtmare compared to FaceTime.

When I use FaceTime with my friends and family, I don't have to worry about providing them technical support - or it even not working. I FaceTime them and if they answer it works every time.

That's what Apple is selling. Not just FaceTime, but the whole enchilada.

So no, I no longer think they need to bring FaceTime to other platforms (nor do I think they intend to - they talked about opening up AirPlay, not FaceTime). It should be a differentiator for them, and part of that is the bundling of the hardware along with the FaceTime software. It' the experience overall, not just an app.

You've successfully shown that cynicism and immorality exist, but not that regulation is a bad thing. That people get away with bad things despite regulation is testament to them being resolute in their badness, not that regulation as a concept is at fault (though individual regulations might be).

I think you need to divide between regulation and enforcement.

We don't need more laws. All more laws do are insert complexity and uncertainly. Complexity leads to hiding ulterior motives and further "badness" as you put it, and it makes sorting things out that much harder.

Uncertainty introduces doubt and caution and slows development and innovation. If the US started out with the complex accounting laws we now have we wouldn't be near the country we are today. We probably wouldn't even exist as a country.

We don't need more stinking laws! We need enforcement of what is on the books! Regulation and now government spending are crushing our economy. If Obama wants to foster job growth, try simplifying the operating environment for companies. Why is our tax code so complex that even dedicated professionals can't decipher and interpret it?

Could you decipher the US code? For the first 100 years of this country anyone with a reasonable education could. Now even the lawyers can't sort it out. That people don't see that as a huge problem just boggles my mind.

I guess ignorance really is bliss... talk about a weird security blanket!

He's asking why Facetime doesn't work over 3G, i.e. on the 3G Network not the iPhone 3G.

Ah - darn phone model and wireless technology having the same name!

If that is the case the answer is simple: the carriers! Not because I think they are particularly evil - this time anyway. But there is a bit of legitimate practicality here: radio spectrum is not an unlimited resource.

Now, I think the carriers painted themselves into this corner with "unlimited data" and other such nonsense, but ultimately I can't say I blame them on the 3G ban of FaceTime. My internet gets slow at peak times of the day as it is.

It's doubly negative for Verizon - part of the reason their coverage is greater is their signal goes farther. Which also means they have less total towers and therefore less total aggregate bandwidth. LTE will put everyone on the same playing field, but for now Verizon got a freebie (and now Sprint) by AT&T taking the heat for no 3G FaceTime when they benefit from it more.

"Samsung and Google are also reportedly working on similar services that would allow Android users to communicate via free messages instead of pricier SMS texts. Meanwhile, Microsoft is said to be readying its own instant messaging system for the Windows Phone platform."

google/android had it for years with google voice. which is completely cross platform via actual mobile numbers.

Yup, I use Google Voice with my iPhone. The downsides are:

1) I need to give my friends a separate GV phone number from my actual phone number for texting only.
2) I can't send MMS messages.