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The votes have been tallied and the top 2 nominations for AMG 2008 were Amsterdam and Mexico City (runners up were Vancouver, Chicago, and Boston). Please make your choice above. The vote will run for 30 days.

Also, please state your reason for your choice below. I think everyone would like to see items relating to culture, dining, entertainment, etc.

I voted for Mexico City for the following reasons, not necessarily in order of importance:

1. There are lots of interesting things to see and do there--cultural attractions, Aztec pyramids, great marketplaces. The Metro is very cheap and efficient for getting around the city.

2. It's a relatively low-cost city that would enable many more Americans to attend than Amsterdam. For Europeans, the transportation costs would be higher than for Amsterdam, but I think the lower costs for hotels, food, and entertainment will balance out those higher transportation costs. Even for Americans, the lower costs in Mexico might make this trip more affordable than cities like Chicago or Boston. If you live in Texas, the flights are especially reasonable. There are non-stops from London to Mexico City and also cheaper Air Canada flights that connect in Toronto.

3. It's the site for the 2008 AIDS conference. Perhaps we can piggyback on that conference and get Tim Horn and/or Peter Staley to stop by for a presentation.

Cost is a factor. Cheaper accommodation and food prices are a good thing. The cultural life in Mexico is fantastic. I also like the piggyback idea with the IAC. It's a big expense flying from Australia but I hope that next year I can make it to the AMG.

Mexico City is my vote, If voted as destination I'm gonna be so lost as I can't speak/read but a wee bit of Spanish. eek! But....I like that challenge. Hey folks, to piggyback we'd have to be going in the month of August. (IAC: Aug 3-10)xxx,Mike

I'll vote for Mexico City, although I don't know that we'll be able to attend. I can't say that it's my first choice as a destination for anything or any event. It's also not on my list of top 20 places to visit... I don't particularly want to go to Mexico City for an AMG 'cause AMG's also serve as our vacations. I've also not come across much of anything positive about Mexico City. The ONLY reason I'd even vote for it is because it comes the closest to matching US destinations in terms of price, and, let's face it, if people can't afford it, people can't go. I want the maximum number of people to be able to attend, and I don't think Amsterdam will do that.

As to relating it somehow to the IAC... the dates I found for the IAC are Aug 3-8 (Sunday thru Friday). If we kept the AMG the usual Thurs through Monday (or Tuesday), I wonder if accomodations would be economical or if it'd be better to plan this the week after (Aug 14 thru 18-19).

As David I'm not sure to attend depending of the dates but my vote goes to Amsterdam. Personally I have no interest whatsoever for Mexico City and wouldn't even make my top 200 places to visit. I prefer to pay more and go to a place I'll enjoy instead of another where I don't like the food ( Mexican food never made it for me ) and greater chances to have to stay in my room for 3-4 days with the runs to the toilet. At least I never had such problems in Canada, the USA or Europe.

I think Europe is much more interesting altogether period. Amsterdam is a great city to visit with a great history, nice museums and restaurants with all type of foods. The Netherlands being rather small it's very easy to arrange short trips to other cities such as Den Haag (The Hague), Delft or wherever places folks would like to go, even Germany and Belgium are quite close.

You mentioned the dates are Aug 3-8 (Sun - Fri). We could try to schedule the AMG for the 7-10 (Thurs - Sun). We might have a hard time finding rooms for Thursday night. The rest of the weekend should be OK.

Maybe Tim or Peter or Andy could pipe in and give us an idea of attendance at the IAC. I mean, was Toronto sold out 2 years ago? Just how big of a deal is this IAC conference?

One thing to keep in mind too about Mexico City (if chosen); If the dates chosen are during IAC any hotels affected by the conference may and probably will have a much stricter deposit/cxl policy. I browsed the travel section of the IAC website and hotels booked with them are requiring a two night deposit. We could get around this by holding AMG either the week before or after depending on members answers to the questions below. Or, choosing a hotel farther away from the conference site.

I've never been to a conference of this type so I'm not quite sure what occurs. Is the conference even open to anyone who wants to attend? If so, how many of the AMG attendees would participate in the actual conference? I did notice the registration fees are quite high.

I was all ready to vote Mexico City, basically because it would be so much cheaper. but after reading David's and Canuck's posts I realized that I have no desire whatsoever to visit Mexico city. And as much as I want to attend an AMG, I also want to plan a vacation around it so I would want to have some interest in the city. Even though it will be more expensive I voted for Amsterdam. If that is the city of choice, I must begin saving now!

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"Let us give pubicity to HV/AIDS and not hide it..." "One of the things destroying people with AIDS is the stigma we attach to it." Nelson Mandela

I think you both bring up good points about who would attend the IAC and how big a deal it is to most attendees of the AMG. I know that at the previous two AMG's, we didn't have enough time to even talk much to all the attendees, much less add a convention to the mix. My personal thoughts, based on what Dennis brings up about hotels affected by the conference is to perhaps hold the AMG the following week (or two) after. I'd imagine rates would be lower and we'd have more of a selection for lodging.

I didn't mean to influence anybody's not voting for Mexico City. I was mainly intending to make the point about making attendance possible for the most people, regardless of whether it's a place I'd like to go or not (damned weak US $!). I'm hoping some members familiar with M.C. will pop in and give us all the good points. One positive thing I have discovered is that the temperature should be nice and cool... even in August! Having said all that, we (hubby and I) generally have a fun time anywhere we go... especially if the company is good! Plus, I'm always up for an adventure.

David, You didn't influence my vote at all. Just made me think and then I realized that if I was to list all the places I would want to visit anywhere in the world Mexico City would not be on that list. Doesn't mean I won't go, but given the choice I chose Amsterdam.

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"Let us give pubicity to HV/AIDS and not hide it..." "One of the things destroying people with AIDS is the stigma we attach to it." Nelson Mandela

I'm not sure what to tell you, except that I've been to Mexico City 5 times in the past 10 years, and I love it.

My first trip I stayed in the financial district, which was really a mistake, in spite of the fabulous accommodations (Hotel Nikko). Everything shuts down in the early evening, and I spent a good amount of time (and pesos) on taxis to La Zona Rosa.

What I know of the historic district (where the IAC will be held, I believe), it's rich in architecture, museums, parks, etc., but I'm not sure that it would be much different in terms of nightlife (if that's important to people).

I always stay in or near La Zona Rosa. There's plenty to do in the day, and plenty of nightlife, and an abundance of restaurants (from budget to upscale), coffee shops, artisan malls, etc. It caters heavily to tourists, and there are all sorts of day tours you can take (including the pyramids). It's gay-friendly, and I've always felt safe walking around alone there, even at night.

One question: Does a vote for Mexico City automatically null and void the "Time of Year Vote" thread, and link the AMG event to the IAC?

I don't care one way or another, myself, but thought it worth asking...

This IAC piggyback thing is great and all that, but I'll be straight up honest with you: Any money needed to register up for that, I would sooner spend on Tequila. And unless they are planning some live safe sex demonstrations or something, I'm unlikely to set foot in a seminar whilst hanging with you good people.

Culturally speaking, I can find something to ooh and aah about in just about any place I visit. Coming from the sticks tends to do that to a person.

Just a brief note about the food in Mexico. I was in Mexico City many years ago and went back to Mexico two years ago to visit three beautiful colonial towns northwest of the city (Guanajuato, San Miguel de Allende, and Querétaro). In the U.S., Mexican food is generally tacos, enchiladas, and burritos or "combination plates." The food in Mexico is actually a lot more interesting and varied than that. Most restaurants that I went to didn't even serve those combination plate items.

Mexico has an interesting combination of European (Spanish) and native American culture. In some of the Metro stations, there are exhibits of the Aztec artifacts that were discovered when they were digging the subway. The people I met were all very friendly to Americans, and I never encountered any problems with crime.

I'd prefer MC just to visit the nearby Teotihuacán ruins. Americans are woefully underinformed about Meso-American ancient civilization. It's as important as Greece and Rome frankly. And as Allan writes, Mexican food is SO much more than a lousy burrito when you're in Mexico. Just the cuisine from the Veracruz region ALONE will not resemble anything you are used to.

All Amterstdamn has is copious amounts of potheads and leather daddies who want to fist you.

I voted for Mexico or Vancouver because they are the easiest for me in the other thread. Mexico City would not be one of my choices for destination. I was thinking Cancun, Ixtapa, Acapulco, or any of the beach front resort cities. I don't get out much but visiting a city where a conference is in progress and not having access to that conference seems like a waste of time. It would be great to have a Social Hour with Peter and Tim. No matter what, if Mexico City is the choice, I will do everything possible to get there.

I have been disabled for almost 12 years now, have sent out over 400 resumes since 1998 and had to create my own project to earn enough money to live on. In all these years, I have not been on a vacation, I have been surviving. Because of my own skills, I make a good living and set my own hours.

I have read every post in this thread and Amsterdam is still an exciting possibility. I want to read more about both locations, research surrounding communities and hopefully take some extra time to tour (like an extra week).

I used to know this girl named Karen. She talked of having lived in Mexico and "living like a Queen." Hell, I can do that anywhere but, this will be my first real vacation and I will have the best daze. Have the best dayMichael(who rather enjoys hanging out with potheads)

First of all, Thom and I cast individual votes. We will, however, give our reasons for our votes as a couple since it will spare the forum family from reading the same thing twice.

We voted for Mexico City for the following reasons:

1) We are interested in exploring the ancient ruins and pyramids and to experience more of the Mexican culture that the border towns we have previously visited have to offer. La Zona Rosa sound just perfect for AMG's home based location.

2) Mexico City seems to be realistically affordable and the airfares are within our budget if we use Chicago O'Hara as our airport of choice. We are not all that concerned with the piggy backing with IAC as we would not attend any of the conference events even if they would be at no charge. However, it would be nice if some of the AIDSmeds.com moderators would still be around and wanted to join us as some did in Montreal after they left IAC in Toronto. Maybe we could even meet Peter. We guess that this means that we favor August for the time frame.

3) Europe is out of the question for us considering the poor strength of the US Dollar vs the Euro. This alone prevents us from enjoying our own timeshare in St. Johann, Pongau, Austria. So we hope that you can see that we are not anti-European as we actually do own vacation property on the other side of the pond. Combine the USD and the price of a round trip ticket from ORD to AMS of $1300+ per person and I think you can see why you will not be seeing us in Europe in the near future.

PS - The hardest thing about this whole voting process for the Coordinator is how do you determine how many of those who vote for a location will actually attend. Results can be easily twisted by an influx of votes by members who have no intention of attending regardless of where the event is held. (EM and I dealt with this very issue last year.) Please for the sake of an accurate reflection of the group's voice, only cast your vote if you truly intend on attending AMG 08.

I voted for Amsterdam because it's only a 2.5 hrs drive away from my place. Great city with all its canals and lots of things to do, a poz friendly infrastructure, international cuisine, almost everybody speaks english. And of course, the famous coffee shops for teh legal weed.

I am very interested in touring the pyramids and ancient ruins as well. I'm not sure how much I am concerned about being there the same time as the IAC, but if we could piggy-back and get to hear from Peter or Andy, that would be terrific.

La Zona Rosa sounds perfect (check it out online!). It really suits almost everyone's preference, whether that be exploring by day or partying by night.

All of that said, if there was any way possible to save $6,000 by next fall, I'd be all over Amsterdam

Several people have mentioned the weak US dollar and a vacation has not been an option in so many years for me. Does anyone know the actual exchange rate? I was looking up air cost and found some flights from San Francisco to Amsterdam (with a 10 hour stop in London) and have found some to be in the $800.00 to $1200.00 USD price range. Can anyone guestimate the cost of hotel? Have the best dayMichael

$1 US will buy you about $0.67 euros at the moment. You must also remember that on top of your crummy exchange rate that Europe tends to be more expensive anyway.

In all honesty, I can't see myself making it to Mexico City. It is a lovely place and there is lots to do and see but from Aus the cost and time taken is prohibitive. Airfares are a minimum of $2 500 return (likely to be $3 000 to get flights at a time that suits). The trip itself is a killer 30 odd hours from Sydney which makes for a particularly grumpy and smelly little steve on arrival. As I spent 1 month in Mexico only a few years back, I just can't justify returning so soon.

By comparison, Amsterdam is a bargain at about $2 000 return airfare and only 22 hours flying time. And, if the timing is right I can easily make my way there either before or after my planned month long stay in Sicily. I was also in Amsterdan only a few years back.

edited to remove my vote. Reality is it is highly unlikely I will be in a position to afford either location next year due to the expense. My personal view is that Mexico City is a more interesting place to visit than Amsterdam. Don't get me wrong, Amsterdam is lovely.

For those residing "Down Under" an additional problem with Mexico City is that just about every flight requires a connection in the U.S., usually Los Angeles. This means that travelers from Australia and New Zealand would have to go through U.S. customs.

Dan J.

Mexico City or Amsterdam, it doesn't really matter that much. I would love to to go to Mexico city because I have never been there but I also loved Amsterdam when I was there last winter. I could work it out that I could be in Belgium at that time since Amsterdam is only a few hours drive from Gent. Either place is fine with me. Like I have stated before, wherever AMG 08 will be I plan on being there!

I just wish there is a place we can all agree on that is affordable for everyone...

For those residing "Down Under" an additional problem with Mexico City is that just about every flight requires a connection in the U.S., usually Los Angeles. This means that travelers from Australia and New Zealand would have to go through U.S. customs.

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True, but I don't mind lying if I'm only in transit, and for those who have an issue it is fairly easy to travel to Mexico via Chile or Argentina.

I'm happy with either Amsterdam or Mexico City for reason of the U.S. HIV travel ban.

Jeromy and I plan to attend in either location and though Mexico City is more affordable for us personally, I have selected Amsterdam as my first choice; after several years of long travel and high costs I believe it is time that we give those who reside in Europe a chance to have something closer and less expensive for them for a change.

I do remind everyone though that regardless of which choice wins, all U.S. citizens who are planning on attending would probably be wise to start applying/renewing their passports now if not already done as I beleiev it takes a while.

I'm happy with either Amsterdam or Mexico City for reason of the U.S. HIV travel ban.

I have selected Amsterdam as my first choice; after several years of long travel and high costs I believe it is time that we give those who reside in Europe a chance to have something closer and less expensive for them for a change.

I do remind everyone though that regardless of which choice wins, all U.S. citizens who are planning on attending would probably be wise to start applying/renewing their passports now if not already done as I beleiev it takes a while.

Ditto. While it is not a guarantee I can attend, I would be happy with either city, but hope that our Coordinator can find the best flight plans to Amsterdam, should it be the winner. With the mention of the travel ban, I invite all of you to the AIDS Activism forum for the urgent thread and important thread which, all told, ask for no more than 1 hour's time to get your opinions communicated to DHS and the judiciary committee, respectively.

I voted for Mexico City because it is a FABULOUS city. There are many misconceptions about Mexico, including the idea the all mexican food is spicy. Mexico City is the largest city in the world, it has so much history and so much culture ( Aztecs pyramids next to Spanish Cathedrals....just amazing). I've been to Mexico several times, mostly for work and I never had a bad experience in that country.Although I love Amsterdam too, for financial reasons ( i really want to see as many people attend as possible) I chose my neighbor to the south.

Rich

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POSITIVE PEDALERS... We are a group of people living with HIV/AIDS, eliminating stigma through our positive public example.

I still can't make up my mind! Amsterdam is simply fabulous, very accessible (once everyone gets there) with very dependable mass transit. I have only spent a weekend there (thank goodness the walls can't talk!) but I have always wanted to return. I really fear it will be unaffordable for many U.S. citizens because of our poor dollar. AMG is so special that we should want the maximum number who wish to go to be able to go. Mexico City's advantage is twofold: the international conference and the proximity (well, at least to those of us in the Western hemisphere.) I have been taking beginning Spanish lessons (in what is probably a futile attempt to branch into some immigration law) and I know there are legendary sites to see there. I am going to keep weighing the options and wait a little longer to vote, but i appreciate all the opinions as they are helping me. I wish we had somewhat of a concrete notion of lodging rates in both places (and for us ugly Americans translated into U.S. dollars.)

I, for one, am going to redouble my efforts in the political sphere to get this unjust and outrageous HIV+ travel ban rescinded. A Democrat...any of them... in the White House will be an enormous boost to getting this accomplished.

Well out of the the 2 choices I'd prefer Mexico... over Amsterdam... I've been to both places and their Great... but, you'll get a bigger BANG for your buck over the border... the euro is way over the value of the dollar at present... but, in true... I still prefer Canada over the two choices...

Thank you band, we are all singers in this life but sometimes you just got to have some percussion. It has been such a difficult choice because Amsterdam really seems like the most fun and I ain't never been there. But costly yes

I have been to Mexico many times, I like tropical beaches, margaritas and a decent priced lobster on the plate. Still have my doubts about Mexico City, it is just too inland and after all Sonomabeach has a thing about the sea. So, I compromised... while you all are going to the airport to go home, I need to go to Ixtapa and work on my tan. Have the best dayMichael

I picked Amsterdam because it's safe, clean, reputable and of greater interest to me than Mexico City. I've never been to Mexico but I've been to Amsterdam and had a blast. Mexico has gotten a lot of bad press in the past year here with Canadian tourists being murdered or raped in their hotel rooms. Two of my cousins were robbed in Mexico City on seperate occasions, one at gun point. My uncle was hustled out of $800 by the Mexican police last year. I'm used to my dollar having a less than favourable exchange rate for travel so I wouldn't let that influence my decision.

I picked Amsterdam because it's safe, clean, reputable and of greater interest to me than Mexico City. I've never been to Mexico but I've been to Amsterdam and had a blast. Mexico has gotten a lot of bad press in the past year here with Canadian tourists being murdered or raped in their hotel rooms. Two of my cousins were robbed in Mexico City on seperate occasions, one at gun point. My uncle was hustled out of $800 by the Mexican police last year. I'm used to my dollar having a less than favourable exchange rate for travel so I wouldn't let that influence my decision.

I picked Amsterdam because it's safe, clean, reputable and of greater interest to me than Mexico City. I've never been to Mexico but I've been to Amsterdam and had a blast. Mexico has gotten a lot of bad press in the past year here with Canadian tourists being murdered or raped in their hotel rooms. Two of my cousins were robbed in Mexico City on seperate occasions, one at gun point. My uncle was hustled out of $800 by the Mexican police last year. I'm used to my dollar having a less than favourable exchange rate for travel so I wouldn't let that influence my decision.

I remember German tourist being carjacked in Florida a few years ago. I know somebody who was robbed in the city where I live. It happens all the time in big cities... and I don't live in a particularly big city. Oh, my husbands credit card was skimmed (or whatever it's called) while in Montreal in '06. When you say 'Mexico', is this Mexico City or just Mexico in general? Everything I've read says that Mexico City has improved dramatically.

You're fortunate that you don't have to worry about less than favorable exchange rates (and total costs) for your travels. Costs are an issue for many, however. There will be an opportunity later for those who don't have to worry about costs to contribute, if they like, to assist those who are affected by unfavorable exchange rates and airfare.

I picked Amsterdam because it's safe, clean, reputable and of greater interest to me than Mexico City. I've never been to Mexico but I've been to Amsterdam and had a blast. Mexico has gotten a lot of bad press in the past year here with Canadian tourists being murdered or raped in their hotel rooms. Two of my cousins were robbed in Mexico City on seperate occasions, one at gun point. My uncle was hustled out of $800 by the Mexican police last year. I'm used to my dollar having a less than favourable exchange rate for travel so I wouldn't let that influence my decision.

Thanks for responding to the PM I sent you concerning your post. ERROR: Something not factored in your thought processes:http://www.upi.com/NewsTrack/Top_News/2007/11/30/dutch_to_study_gay_bashing/1608/Always something going on to spoil peoples joys, isn't there. It's true. It could happen anywhere, anyplace where a small % of those "have nots" prey on those who "have". (i.e. : money, integrity, peace of mind.)