Is Invasion of Artificial Phantasm an actual malady in Nasuverse? I thought all of the physiological repercussions of using Nine Lives Blade Works came from Shirou removing the shroud, using the GARm, and projecting anything at all, not projecting a particular Noble Phantasm.

Edit: I've got another one. Hassan's Projectile Throwing ability that allows him to throw daggers like bullets with pinpoint accuracy, combined with Ryougi's Mystic Eyes of Death Perception.

Or Shiki's. It's not the eyes that make him hurt, it's his brain. The eyes themselves are pretty much the same for both, except that they interpret what they see differently.

Nine Lives wouldn't be an Arti Phantasm, it's a technique after all. Artificial Phantasms are phantasms that you make a part of yourself, like GARm. Thus, no additional damage from using NL. Only the awesomeness of killing things at the speed of the gods(whatever THAT is).

A samurai who sees Death would kinda rock, only thing is he'd look weird 'cause of the glasses.

Life is but a River.A continuous flow,relentless till it reaches its destination.Rocks,rapids,falls hinder not the flow of the strong.It has its ups,and its downs.And in the end,peacefully.......It dissipates into to vast Ocean.

Well shiki + HF shirou with UBW enable could be really cool. he didn't need his knife after all, he has many supplies now, nanaya for sure will be very happy because he will have his new killing chamber lol.

SolarAdept wrote:How about a Arc+MEoDP? Since she is technically an alien(based on a one), she can potentially kill even stuff like ORT.

You are right that Arc could possibly kill ORT, but not with MEoDP. MEoDP (the ones we have come to know) functions through the Gaian concept of death, in other words it can only kill creatures of the Earth, regardless who the user is. ORT is not bound by Gaian order, a "short cut" of killing Gaian creature such as the MEoDP will not work for ORT, even if Arc is using it (who is also a great spirit bound by Gaian system). So how can Arc kill ORT? The only possibility here is slaying ORT through pure, raw, physical power. ORT does not have the Gaian concept of death, but it is confirmed that he can be physical destroyed.

Plus, Arc's mystic eyes are supposed to be several notches higher than the MEoDP in terms of the Noble Colours ranking (not in terms of killing things).

Arcueid, as I understand, is a nature spirit tied to Gaia. Even if she weren't entirely of Gaian order, that doesn't mean she would be able to comprehend ORT's Mercurial order, or see his concept of death (if he even has one).

He doesn't. Actually, potentially Ryougi's third personality might see his origin(since her eyes work somewhat differently as I understand it). Might. Potentially. With a stretch. And please don't react to this, this is just some idle thought.

Not hax, but Aoko would be probably glad to have Caster(FSN)'s reserves of prana(around 3000 according to fuyuki).

Oolinthu wrote:Arcueid, as I understand, is a nature spirit tied to Gaia. Even if she weren't entirely of Gaian order, that doesn't mean she would be able to comprehend ORT's Mercurial order, or see his concept of death (if he even has one).

No he does not have a Gaian concept of death. Character Material states that if you want to "kill" ORT, you need to "break" him physically. I always interpreted this as you must smash him with brute force. Type-Moon him/herself is said to be a really weak one among the Types (being slain by a mere magus). Arc, as a copy made from Type-Moon, will certainly not match ORT in physical combat. Furthermore, Arc does not even have much of a home field advantage when fighting ORT on Earth. ORT essentially brings a piece of Mercury with him whenever he walks.

SolarAdept wrote:MEoDP can kill everything. Shiki, being a human, is the one who can't kill non-Gaian things. Just like Shirou can't project Ea cuz it's made from materials that can't be found on Earth.

MEoDP cannot kill everything, only fully understanding the Akasha will. This sort of cleared it up for me, let's see if it helps you.

fuyuki wrote:And as said in the game, lines cannot be seen on those things that can't be killed (broken) in the present era. The base power of a human user of these eyes work in relation to the limits of the humans of that era. And obviously, as an extension of that, the base power an Earthling user, be it person or object, of these eyes is going to work in relation to how the system of Earth works. Be it rock, stone, salamander, or concept, as long as it was born in this world, there's going to be something fundamentally similar with hairy apes.

A human, or any creature, can only understand Akasha through concepts that it can understand. So, Shiki sees lines and dots through his MEoDP, ORT may see something completely different if he had MEoDP. This means that there are always restrictions placed on the user of MEoDP (there are always death concepts in Akasha you don't understand), unless he/she truly comprehends Akasha, and knows the truth about everything. I guess if a magus indeed reaches Akasha, he would in the process gain the perfect form of MEoDP, but this is kind of irrelavent, who would care about MEoDP when you understand everything and essentially achieved godhood?

Can we spoiler tag this thread? Putting tags in tags in tags is really a lot of work.

Oolinthu wrote:Arcueid, as I understand, is a nature spirit tied to Gaia. Even if she weren't entirely of Gaian order, that doesn't mean she would be able to comprehend ORT's Mercurial order, or see his concept of death (if he even has one).

No he does not have a Gaian concept of death. Character Material states that if you want to "kill" ORT, you need to "break" him physically. I always interpreted this as you must smash him with brute force. Type-Moon him/herself is said to be a really weak one among the Types (being slain by a mere magus). Arc, as a copy made from Type-Moon, will certainly not match ORT in physical combat. Furthermore, Arc does not even have much of a home field advantage when fighting ORT on Earth. ORT essentially brings a piece of Mercury with him whenever he walks.

SolarAdept wrote:MEoDP can kill everything. Shiki, being a human, is the one who can't kill non-Gaian things. Just like Shirou can't project Ea cuz it's made from materials that can't be found on Earth.

MEoDP cannot kill everything, only fully understanding the Akasha will. This sort of cleared it up for me, let's see if it helps you.

fuyuki wrote:And as said in the game, lines cannot be seen on those things that can't be killed (broken) in the present era. The base power of a human user of these eyes work in relation to the limits of the humans of that era. And obviously, as an extension of that, the base power an Earthling user, be it person or object, of these eyes is going to work in relation to how the system of Earth works. Be it rock, stone, salamander, or concept, as long as it was born in this world, there's going to be something fundamentally similar with hairy apes.

A human, or any creature, can only understand Akasha through concepts that it can understand. So, Shiki sees lines and dots through his MEoDP, ORT may see something completely different if he had MEoDP. This means that there are always restrictions placed on the user of MEoDP (there are always death concepts in Akasha you don't understand), unless he/she truly comprehends Akasha, and knows the truth about everything. I guess if a magus indeed reaches Akasha, he would in the process gain the perfect form of MEoDP, but this is kind of irrelavent, who would care about MEoDP when you understand everything and essentially achieved godhood?

Can we spoiler tag this thread? Putting tags in tags in tags is really a lot of work.

Well said. That all seems to make sense. So essentially there's no one on Earth that could really fight ORT, MEoDP or no.