Could be an interesting cameo. I don't see them saddling a Black Panther film director with a main actor that they have no influence in casting. I suspect, if we see a Black Panther, it will be T'Chaka... it's also possible that he might die here, which would be weird going forward as well.

Now... if Whedon has actual plans for T'Challa and is going to make him an "Avengers character" like Hawkeye, Quicksilver and Scarlet Witch, then, hey, go for it.

So, how would you go about adding diversity to the Avengers? I don't think adding War Machine and Falcon would be popular options, but if they don't ever plan on adding Black Panther, Monica Rambeau or Luke Cage or Ultimate Janet Pym, it's the only way to go.

So, how would you go about adding diversity to the Avengers? I don't think adding War Machine and Falcon would be popular options, but if they don't ever plan on adding Black Panther, Monica Rambeau or Luke Cage or Ultimate Janet Pym, it's the only way to go.

Introduce him in the Avengers itself...it doesn't take his own movie. And honestly I don't think too many people are counting how many black people are on the team. :/

Introduce him in the Avengers itself...it doesn't take his own movie. And honestly I don't think too many people are counting how many black people are on the team. :/

That's a lot to explain for a small character. Hawkeye and Black Widow where kinda just... soldiers and spies. Stuff that has a one word explanation. There is no 'what is a bow, how does he use it so well.' It's all very obvious and intuitive and naturally grounded because it's so real. The others had movies to introduce themselves in. Black Panther is superhuman, but why? He has all this epic technology but why? He has all these uber martial arts... from where? He has this regal attitude and authority... but did he earn that, or is he just a spoiled brat? If this Wakanda has all this vibranium, how come we haven't heard of them before? He's a really, really, bad character to try and represent well in twelve minutes of screen time.

As for diversity... when I google "Avengers diversity" I get a number of results that suggest a vast array of people with a number of different motivations and perspectives have all noticed that all of the Avengers are white. Going a step further, the only female is non-powered, and further, she wasn't even supposed to be there save for Whedon fighting for her to be there. So, yeah, those balances, for various reasons, matter, and are worth resolving. It's different for the JLA that really does have a token female and a token black guy, but the Avengers have a number of non-whites that have historically and popularly been part of the team... expecting them to be included in an awesome vitally important way makes sense.

Haven't been paying attention to "insider information" or anything like that but I had this idea that the plot for Avengers 2 could be similar to Whedon's arc on Astonishing X-Men where a sentient A.I. (Danger, Ultron) attempts to murder their creators.

If Vision were in the movie I think he'd be used similar to how the Genosha Sentinel was used in the arc: a weapon of destruction that feels empathy and turns on Danger/Ultron.

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That's a lot to explain for a small character. Hawkeye and Black Widow where kinda just... soldiers and spies. Stuff that has a one word explanation. There is no 'what is a bow, how does he use it so well.' It's all very obvious and intuitive and naturally grounded because it's so real. The others had movies to introduce themselves in. Black Panther is superhuman, but why? He has all this epic technology but why? He has all these uber martial arts... from where? He has this regal attitude and authority... but did he earn that, or is he just a spoiled brat? If this Wakanda has all this vibranium, how come we haven't heard of them before? He's a really, really, bad character to try and represent well in twelve minutes of screen time.

You're thinking more about how they can't and not how they can. Having a film set in Wakanda would pretty much answer most of those questions. Not every new character in an Avenger film has to be glossed over like Hawkeye and Widow were, the Maximoffs won't. There's no reason to believe if he's ever in an Avengers film Black Panther would only have 12 minutes of screentime. Obviously he'd have much more than that. :/

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As for diversity... when I google "Avengers diversity" I get a number of results that suggest a vast array of people with a number of different motivations and perspectives have all noticed that all of the Avengers are white. Going a step further, the only female is non-powered, and further, she wasn't even supposed to be there save for Whedon fighting for her to be there. So, yeah, those balances, for various reasons, matter, and are worth resolving. It's different for the JLA that really does have a token female and a token black guy, but the Avengers have a number of non-whites that have historically and popularly been part of the team... expecting them to be included in an awesome vitally important way makes sense.

Because a couple google pings to forums and fansites show the public is just clamoring and lamenting the lack of diversity in their 2 hour superhero ensemble.

I'm not saying they shouldn't obviously but it's not something I would call an issue that they should go out of their way to address.

You're overcomplicating it. The Avengers create Ultron. It's that simple. Joss is not some cryptic speaker who refuses to do things that have been done before. What makes Tony Stark not Frankenstien is that Ultron is created by the Avengers... it's a team effort, it's personal to all of them. ((Side note: That is SO much better than one person being the creator, and thus, bearing all the emotional relevance during the climax of a film that's supposed to be a team thing.)) And JARVIS has already been HAL9000 in IM3... now it's time to take it a step further, which will be awesome.

How is "Stark creates cybernetically implanted Iron Man armor inside his own body; evil AI hacks in and takes over" overcomplicating it? That's a lot more straightforward and easy for audiences to swallow than trying to come up with a logical reason that The Avengers would pool their resources to create a killer robot that even they can't defeat for a government agency they don't even remotely trust.

That's a lot to explain for a small character. Hawkeye and Black Widow where kinda just... soldiers and spies. Stuff that has a one word explanation. There is no 'what is a bow, how does he use it so well.' It's all very obvious and intuitive and naturally grounded because it's so real. The others had movies to introduce themselves in. Black Panther is superhuman, but why? He has all this epic technology but why? He has all these uber martial arts... from where? He has this regal attitude and authority... but did he earn that, or is he just a spoiled brat? If this Wakanda has all this vibranium, how come we haven't heard of them before? He's a really, really, bad character to try and represent well in twelve minutes of screen time.

As for diversity... when I google "Avengers diversity" I get a number of results that suggest a vast array of people with a number of different motivations and perspectives have all noticed that all of the Avengers are white. Going a step further, the only female is non-powered, and further, she wasn't even supposed to be there save for Whedon fighting for her to be there. So, yeah, those balances, for various reasons, matter, and are worth resolving. It's different for the JLA that really does have a token female and a token black guy, but the Avengers have a number of non-whites that have historically and popularly been part of the team... expecting them to be included in an awesome vitally important way makes sense.

I was going to respond to him, but you took the words right out of my mouth. With SW and QS already on board, there's no time to include the amount of story you'd need for BP.

Also, yes, the Avengers are hurting for a more diverse squad. In a bad way.

You're thinking more about how they can't and not how they can. Having a film set in Wakanda would pretty much answer most of those questions. Not every new character in an Avenger film has to be glossed over like Hawkeye and Widow were, the Maximoffs won't. There's no reason to believe if he's ever in an Avengers film Black Panther would only have 12 minutes of screentime. Obviously he'd have much more than that. :/

The main reason I believe that is because the films are... crowded, and apparently will only become moreso. Someone is only getting twelve minutes of screentime, new guys, especially those being introduced for the first time in a team up movie are the likliest sacrifices.

Yes, a Wakandan adventure would answer the problem for Black Panther, but, that has kind of the same problem as a Hank-Pym Ultron, you make a team up movie about one new less-popular character and it limits the story. A stop/scene in Wakanda could be awesome, an Avengers movie set in Wakanda is just way too limited, in scope and scale, imho.

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Because a couple google pings to forums and fansites show the public is just clamoring and lamenting the lack of diversity in their 2 hour superhero ensemble.

I'm not saying they shouldn't obviously but it's not something I would call an issue that they should go out of their way to address.

A couple, a million, Forbes, fansites, potato-potahto. It's not life or death obviously, but it's part of adapting something for modern audiences. I would call it an issue that needs to be addressed, as much as any of the 'minute' things about filmmaking that can take a movie from good to great.

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Originally Posted by cherokeesam

How is "Stark creates cybernetically implanted Iron Man armor inside his own body; evil AI hacks in and takes over" overcomplicating it? That's a lot more straightforward and easy for audiences to swallow than trying to come up with a logical reason that The Avengers would pool their resources to create a killer robot that even they can't defeat for a government agency they don't even remotely trust.

Creating armor inside of a human body definitely sounds complicated, it sounds physically impossible...and what makes AI evil... isn't AI by definition utterly logical and morally void? It sounds like you want Hal and Frankenstein a great deal.

Why would anyone come up with a logical reason for your personal assumptions? "The Avengers create Ultron" could be a dozen different things from Thor pushing JARVIS past his limits to Cap turning over Tony's armory to SHIELD. The point of Ultron is that he's not intentional, but he is borne entirely out of the hero(es)'s well intentioned actions. That's why he works, that's why him being upset is so right.

An Ultron who bad guys or supporting characters have the heaviest hand in lacks all the emotional power of Ultron. Just because it's not Hank Pym doesn't mean you should ignore what makes the story great.

Creating armor inside of a human body definitely sounds complicated, it sounds physically impossible...and what makes AI evil... isn't AI by definition utterly logical and morally void? It sounds like you want Hal and Frankenstein a great deal.

Almost everything in the superhero genre is physically impossible. Does suspension of disbelief miraculously vanish when you invent cybernetic armor? Besides, that's one of Tony's most popular and recognizable armors, and one that's transparently and inevitably obvious after the events of IM3 --- i.e., Extremis Armor.

As to whether or not an AI can become "evil" --- that's been the subject of a lot of science fiction, and could/would/should certainly be explored in a movie about Ultron.

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Why would anyone come up with a logical reason for your personal assumptions? "The Avengers create Ultron" could be a dozen different things from Thor pushing JARVIS past his limits to Cap turning over Tony's armory to SHIELD. The point of Ultron is that he's not intentional, but he is borne entirely out of the hero(es)'s well intentioned actions. That's why he works, that's why him being upset is so right.

An Ultron who bad guys or supporting characters have the heaviest hand in lacks all the emotional power of Ultron. Just because it's not Hank Pym doesn't mean you should ignore what makes the story great.

Granted; but making The Avengers look like a bunch of ****-ups doesn't lend emotional weight to the story, either ---- it just makes the heroes look like a bunch of ****-ups. "Ultron is YOUR problem, Avengers --- now fix it." Meanwhile, god only knows how many people have to die and how much property gets destroyed because our heroes accidentally (or worse: intentionally) created a monster. No amount of PR can restore public faith in The Avengers after something like that.

I was going to respond to him, but you took the words right out of my mouth. With SW and QS already on board, there's no time to include the amount of story you'd need for BP.

Also, yes, the Avengers are hurting for a more diverse squad. In a bad way.

I never said he'd be in Avengers 2. I meant an Avengers movie in general.

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Originally Posted by DrCosmic

The main reason I believe that is because the films are... crowded, and apparently will only become moreso. Someone is only getting twelve minutes of screentime, new guys, especially those being introduced for the first time in a team up movie are the likliest sacrifices.

Yes, a Wakandan adventure would answer the problem for Black Panther, but, that has kind of the same problem as a Hank-Pym Ultron, you make a team up movie about one new less-popular character and it limits the story. A stop/scene in Wakanda could be awesome, an Avengers movie set in Wakanda is just way too limited, in scope and scale, imho.

I see where you're coming from with the Hank Pym/Ultron comparison but I think a BP/Wakanda situation would be different. The Pym/Ultron thing doesn't make sense on a whole other level in the MCU because you'd be bringing in a character who's not an Avenger to make a villain that's supposed to come from within the Avengers, it's counterintuitive to the point of Ultron. With BP/Wakanda, it would be like a globe hopping adventure to a foreign land, and because Black Panther is so tied to Wakandan culture, he'd flow naturally as an element within the story without it feeling forced.

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A couple, a million, Forbes, fansites, potato-potahto. It's not life or death obviously, but it's part of adapting something for modern audiences. I would call it an issue that needs to be addressed, as much as any of the 'minute' things about filmmaking that can take a movie from good to great.

Avengers was great though. :/

I just don't see it as a problem. I'm black and I don't even care how many black people they have in it.

There would be a natural progression for Jarvis to evolve into a villainous artificial intelligence, especially when one considers the subplot of IM3: the fear/use of automated Iron Man suits. My question, however, is that if they give him a physical body, how are they going to make him indestructible? Since adamantium is owned by Fox, they would be hard pressed to make him withstand the accumulated firepower of the team (which made him terrifying in Avengers: EMH.)

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Originally Posted by DrDoom

Vibranium? Like Cap's shield

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Originally Posted by Raiden

I also think that it will be Vibranium, and it makes more sense than Adamantium. Cap's shield has already displayed durability against Thor's Majolnir's strike, and probably will withstand Hulk's fist as well as other forms of attack. It will make Ultron virtually indestructible. Also, since Cap got his shield from SHIELD, it is reasonable to assume that they'd have more somewhere, and Ultron can build itself a new body so it can have what it takes to destroy the Avengers.

Vibranium is probably a given to be involved in some way, but another aspect that could be involved is THE REMAINS OF THE DESTROYER. After all, S.H.I.E.L.D. was already working with it in A1 (the weapon that Coulson used against Loki) and combining that tech w/vibranium would seem like a cool way to go.