I had the biggest **** eating grin when that was all going down (I knew what was coming) and was trying to hide it from my wife. She was more shocked by Joffrey's death (she expected him to die at some point, just not at the wedding and like that) than the Red Wedding.

Loved the way they did the dwarfs, slightly different from the books, but effective.

I'm thinking about the next 'holy ****' moment non-readers will flip out on. There's certainly a few more coming this season.

-Cersei and Jaime ******* over Joffery's rotting corpse-Battle at the Wall and Stannis' arrival-Red Viper vs the Mountain-Tyrion killing Shae and then Tywin-Lady Stoneheart

Don't get me wrong: Joffrey has done the most hateful things imaginable during the course of the series. At some point it may come to light that he was responsible for something VERY big, but I don't know when or how that might get revealed. Karma is a bitch, and the horrific nature of his death was well deserved. He's been a sadistic little bastard ever since we saw the incident at the Inn at the Crossroads where Arya threw his sword into the river. And his tormenting of Tyrion during this episode alone was unforgiveable. But for me, it's tough to watch ANYONE choke and die like that, even if it is a television show.

This show must be very difficult for you to watch then, seeing someone getting their head cut off or worse every 5 minutes for 4 seasons now...

For some reason it was really just troubling to watch someone choke to death. I had no qualms about the scene at the end of last week's season premiere. The Hound taking on 5 guys in the Inn was an amazing scene. And I actually thought that when Arya had her revenge on Polliver, who had killed her friend in season 2, that was a moment of justice.

For some reason it was really just troubling to watch someone choke to death. I had no qualms about the scene at the end of last week's season premiere. The Hound taking on 5 guys in the Inn was an amazing scene. And I actually thought that when Arya had her revenge on Polliver, who had killed her friend in season 2, that was a moment of justice.

My *momentary* pang of sympathy was about anybody choking.

Whoa there. Was I 'making something' of it? I thought it was a reasonable discussion of the sympathy or lack thereof that one might feel for one of the most loathed characters of all time.

When I read the telling of Joffreys death in the books, I was fine with it. But in the death scene we saw last night, actor Jack Gleason was finally able to convey the truth behind Joffrey and (most of) his cruelty: that deep down he was just a scared boy. A scared boy who was given unlimited power and used it to become a bully since he hadn't been adequately parented by his real father, Jaime Lannister, and the father her thought was his own in Robert Baratheon.

When I read the telling of Joffreys death in the books, I was fine with it. But in the death scene we saw last night, actor Jack Gleason was finally able to convey the truth behind Joffrey and (most of) his cruelty: that deep down he was just a scared boy. A scared boy who was given unlimited power and used it to become a bully since he hadn't been adequately parented by his real father, Jaime Lannister, and the father her thought was his own in Robert Baratheon.

Disagree. He wasn't a 'scared little boy' - he was a complete and utter sociopath. Rotten and evil to his core, even if he sometimes was unsure of himself, he had no regard for any person on that show - NO ONE. Talking about cutting Ned Stark's head off with his daughter sitting 5 feet away... tormenting his uncle, killing at will...

I didn't see a single redeeming thing about him, and he was designed that way.

Disagree. He wasn't a 'scared little boy' - he was a complete and utter sociopath. Rotten and evil to his core, even if he sometimes was unsure of himself, he had no regard for any person on that show - NO ONE. Talking about cutting Ned Stark's head off with his daughter sitting 5 feet away... tormenting his uncle, killing at will...

I didn't see a single redeeming thing about him, and he was designed that way.

I completely agree with Rob - a scared little boy doesn't take his new crossbow, tie up the prostitute who has been sent to sleep with him and then shoot her full of crossbow bolts.

Now if the scene had been him all nervous about sexuality and exploding in his pants too early, then sure - scared little boy.

Continuing to fire crossbow bolts into a tied-up, naked, defenseless woman whose life you feel holds no value = sociopath.

If you want to be shocked at something, Cersei crying over her sociopathic son's body was interesting - how could she possibly feel anything for that brat at this point? Goes to show that a mother will pretty much forgive her children for doing anything...

« Last Edit: April 14, 2014, 12:33 PM by Pete_Fett »

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Peter

Letting my collecting OCD get the better of me on a DAILY basis... and loving EVERY minute of it!

When I read the telling of Joffreys death in the books, I was fine with it. But in the death scene we saw last night, actor Jack Gleason was finally able to convey the truth behind Joffrey and (most of) his cruelty: that deep down he was just a scared boy. A scared boy who was given unlimited power and used it to become a bully since he hadn't been adequately parented by his real father, Jaime Lannister, and the father her thought was his own in Robert Baratheon.

Disagree. He wasn't a 'scared little boy' - he was a complete and utter sociopath. Rotten and evil to his core, even if he sometimes was unsure of himself, he had no regard for any person on that show - NO ONE. Talking about cutting Ned Stark's head off with his daughter sitting 5 feet away... tormenting his uncle, killing at will...

I didn't see a single redeeming thing about him, and he was designed that way.

I'm not disputing that Joffrey was a sociopath. He absolutely was. He was a sociopath who was drunk with power, and that lust for power had been instilled in him by Tywin and Cersei. And he's also the result of a lack of a solid father figure, as both Robert Baratheon and Jaime Lannister failed him.

I credit that slight glimmer of humanity much more to the actor than the character. And from all of the behind the scenes videos it's been communicated that the actor behind Joffrey is actually an incredibly nice kid. And he's done an amazing job in portraying a horrible character. He made a choice in that death scene that said something to me.

Even the most horrific villain has some shred of humanity to them. Otherwise they're just ridiculous, one dimensional constructs. One thing that's become very clear in George R.R. Martin's writing is that his characters are by and large complicated. If you didn't get that? Fine. That's your viewing experience. I had one of my own. And I just find it interesting that viewing the scene on the HBO series evoked a slightly different response than when I read the same scene in A Storm of Swords.

The one thing that's left hanging from the books that I have to wonder about in the wake of Joffrey's death? It's something that really should have been explored in the pilot, and seems to have been a missed opportunity in the show. In the first novel, when the Royal court is visiting Winterfell, Joffrey loses some competition to Robb Stark. It was the shame of that loss and a remark from Robert Baratheon that seems to have spurred Joffrey to hire the assassin that went to kill Bran in his sick bed in Winterfell. After that things spiraled out of control, leading to the outbreak of hostilities between the Starks and the Lannisters. I'm struggling to recall who revealed that information and at what time. It may have been Varys, but I'm not positive.

I agree with Nick regarding Joff's death. Sure, he's psychotic, but it's that lack of father-figure plus the fact he is king (and flaunts it despite grandpa telling him a king doesn't tell people he is) Joffrey has power and feels he can get away with anything without repercussion. He felt he was untouchable. I don't think Joffrey ever thought he would die (despite seeing many others killed around him) and when he realized he was done for, he realized how helpless he was and that scared him.

I think the more satisfying scene in the series was when Tywin dressed down Joff just as P-Siddy mentioned. And then Tywin sent THE KING off to bed, and to be given a sleeping pill by Grand Maester Pycelle. At that moment Tywin showed that he was the power behind the Iron Throne, and he was just barely suffering his grandson.