Two men die in M65 horror crash

TWO men died in a three-car-collision on the M65 early on Saturday morning sparking renewed calls for motorway lighting to be switched back on.

Best friends Mohammed Iqbal and Mazafer Iqbal were travelling home along the eastbound carriageway when the crash happened at 2.15am.

The pair, who had been travelling in a blue Peugeot 106, had been working in a branch of Chunky Chicken in Skelmersdale.

Police said the Peugeot, a silver Renault Clio and a black Citroen C2 were all travelling towards Burnley, between Junctions 9 and 10 when they collided.

Two of the vehicles were left overturned and the motorway was closed for around 10 hours as police investigated and removed the wreckage.

Paramedics and police were called but 48-year-old Mohammed from Burnley and 47-year-old Mazafer from Brierfield — friends for 30 years — were both pronounced dead at the scene.

The driver of the silver Renault Clio was taken to Royal Blackburn Hospital with minor injuries, while the driver of the black Citroen C2 was uninjured.

Suzanne Ereira and her husband Keith had been travelling in the car immediately behind those that had collided.

The couple were en-route to visit family in Burnley from London.

Suzanne, 24, made the 999 call. She said: “I saw two bodies lying on the hard shoulder.

“My husband opened his door right next to where they were lying and at first, we didn’t realise they were men, we thought they were blankets or bags that had been thrown into the air.

“It was pitch black and we could hardly see anything. It’s just awful.

“It had been dry all the way up but when we hit that stretch of motorway it was just so dark.

“I was driving and I started to feel bits of glass and debris under the wheels but I still couldn’t see anything.

“All of a sudden, I had to slam on my brakes to avoid hitting a blue car.

“I could not see it until I was right up next to it.

“We could easily have been in the smash too, if we had been in our old car, we would have been because it just wouldn’t have stopped in time. I have never been so frightened in my life.”

This latest accident has renewed calls to switch the lights on the M65 back on.

The Highways Agency said the lights from Junction 7 to 10 were permanently switched off in 2011 as part of its scheme to save around 350 tonnes of carbon every year.

Kirsty Tipping, 41, lost her fiancee, Mark Burgess, in November, after he died in an accident near Junction 8.

Kirsty said: “This news has completely knocked me for six and has brought back all the memories of what happened to Mark.

“I just wish they’d do something about it. It’s just all about money.

“How many lives will it take before they switch the lights back on?”

Yesterday, the families of “loving fathers” Mohammed and Mazafer were too distraught to talk.

But a spokesman for the families, said: “Both families are shocked and devastated by what has happened.

“No one can believe it.

“We are religious families and we were looking forward to celebrating Eid together and now we find ourselves thinking about burying family members on the holy day.

“It is just unbelievable.

“The loss of both men has left a huge hole in two families. They were both loving fathers.

“We are trying to find comfort in our faith at this time.”

The families also thanked the emergency services for their help at the scene.

Father-of-four Mazafer ran a branch of Chunky Chicken in Skelmersdale, owned by his brother who also owns a restaurant of the same name in Nelson.

He was a close friend of Pendle councillor, Mohammed Iqbal, who paid tribute to him.

He said: “It’s a tragic and devastating loss.

“Mazafer was a larger than life character. Always friendly, full of fun and liked by everyone.

“We went on a pilgrimage together to Saudi Arabia and got to know each other very well.

“I knew both men and they were both religious and cared for their families and friends a great deal.

“It is unbelievable that they are gone.”

He added: “Many people are unhappy that the motorway is unlit. I can’t say what happened and I can’t say that the lack of lighting was to blame but what I do know is that this is not the only death on that particular part of the motorway. I think Lancashire County Council and Burnley Council are going to have to look at what is going on there because something is going wrong.”

Mohammed Iqbal worked at Sleep Sound Beds in Accrington but was known to help out his friend of 30 years in his takeaway from time to time.

Friends of Mazafer also took to his Facebook page to leave tributes to the Liverpool FC fan.

Phill Nuttall said: “Mazafer only called me last week to see how I was and how the girls were.

Comments

ELBEAN
4:18pm Mon 28 Jul 14

Yes there is some quite appalling driving. Quite often people actually die from Not Wearing a Seat Belt but people talk as if they died from an 'accident' or some other misnomer. My son is out on the roads now, young driver although he waited 'til 18 to start learning. I have warned him about all the idiots and he has had 6 hours of night time and motorway tuition post test.

Yes there is some quite appalling driving. Quite often people actually die from Not Wearing a Seat Belt but people talk as if they died from an 'accident' or some other misnomer. My son is out on the roads now, young driver although he waited 'til 18 to start learning. I have warned him about all the idiots and he has had 6 hours of night time and motorway tuition post test.ELBEAN

Yes there is some quite appalling driving. Quite often people actually die from Not Wearing a Seat Belt but people talk as if they died from an 'accident' or some other misnomer. My son is out on the roads now, young driver although he waited 'til 18 to start learning. I have warned him about all the idiots and he has had 6 hours of night time and motorway tuition post test.

Score: 7

HarryBosch
1:02pm Sat 26 Jul 14

So very sad to lose another two lives on Lancashire roads. My sincere sympathies go out to family and friends of the persons concerned.
I see one comment at the moment about the lack of lighting. I would say - don't speculate, wait for the results of the investigation, I suspect that this may not be straight forward. How many accidents involve three vehicles travelling in the same direction in the early hours of the morning!

So very sad to lose another two lives on Lancashire roads. My sincere sympathies go out to family and friends of the persons concerned.
I see one comment at the moment about the lack of lighting. I would say - don't speculate, wait for the results of the investigation, I suspect that this may not be straight forward. How many accidents involve three vehicles travelling in the same direction in the early hours of the morning!HarryBosch

So very sad to lose another two lives on Lancashire roads. My sincere sympathies go out to family and friends of the persons concerned.
I see one comment at the moment about the lack of lighting. I would say - don't speculate, wait for the results of the investigation, I suspect that this may not be straight forward. How many accidents involve three vehicles travelling in the same direction in the early hours of the morning!

Score: 77

jaffa90
10:45am Sat 26 Jul 14

This should not happen this day and age, then again how many of us have had lessons driving in the dark and also on a motorway? So young,
R.I.P.

This should not happen this day and age, then again how many of us have had lessons driving in the dark and also on a motorway? So young,
R.I.P.jaffa90

This should not happen this day and age, then again how many of us have had lessons driving in the dark and also on a motorway? So young,
R.I.P.

Score: 57

Pendlesider
5:05pm Sat 26 Jul 14

driving on the same stretch yesterday, there is the outside lane closed for maintenance on westbound and we were down to crawling speed. some idiotic drivers ignored the closed lane sign and simply sped past vehicles on the inside lane right up to the barriers then tried to jump the queue.
if similar happened at night time and no street lights then possibly explain accident but better to wait and see report. signage at brierfield roundabout states work starts at nights from 26th July for a week. condolences to family.

driving on the same stretch yesterday, there is the outside lane closed for maintenance on westbound and we were down to crawling speed. some idiotic drivers ignored the closed lane sign and simply sped past vehicles on the inside lane right up to the barriers then tried to jump the queue.
if similar happened at night time and no street lights then possibly explain accident but better to wait and see report. signage at brierfield roundabout states work starts at nights from 26th July for a week. condolences to family.Pendlesider

driving on the same stretch yesterday, there is the outside lane closed for maintenance on westbound and we were down to crawling speed. some idiotic drivers ignored the closed lane sign and simply sped past vehicles on the inside lane right up to the barriers then tried to jump the queue.
if similar happened at night time and no street lights then possibly explain accident but better to wait and see report. signage at brierfield roundabout states work starts at nights from 26th July for a week. condolences to family.

Score: 16

Smacx25
12:42pm Sat 26 Jul 14

RIP guys :(
Unlit motorway, so dangerous at night and all to save a few pounds

RIP guys :(
Unlit motorway, so dangerous at night and all to save a few poundsSmacx25

RIP guys :(
Unlit motorway, so dangerous at night and all to save a few pounds

Score: 61

peely
1:51pm Sat 26 Jul 14

Doesn't, sound like a straight forward accident - sure all will be revealed in time !

Doesn't, sound like a straight forward accident - sure all will be revealed in time !peely

Doesn't, sound like a straight forward accident - sure all will be revealed in time !

Score: 36

glossopkid
1:54pm Sat 26 Jul 14

RIP guys. My condolences to the families.

RIP guys. My condolences to the families.glossopkid

RIP guys. My condolences to the families.

Score: 34

superdad1
6:11pm Sat 26 Jul 14

peely wrote…

Doesn't, sound like a straight forward accident - sure all will be revealed in time !

Speeding comes to mind,

[quote][p][bold]peely[/bold] wrote:
Doesn't, sound like a straight forward accident - sure all will be revealed in time ![/p][/quote]Speeding comes to mind,superdad1

peely wrote…

Doesn't, sound like a straight forward accident - sure all will be revealed in time !

Speeding comes to mind,

Score: -23

TONY WALES
7:50pm Sat 26 Jul 14

The inquiry into the cause of this accident should be interesting.
Street lights help but I have driven this section of motorway many times, you just need to have some common sense, and not drive too fast.

The faster you are in this world ...the sooner you will get into the next.

Plenty of roads are unlit in this country and don't have accidents.

The inquiry into the cause of this accident should be interesting.
Street lights help but I have driven this section of motorway many times, you just need to have some common sense, and not drive too fast.
The faster you are in this world ...the sooner you will get into the next.
Plenty of roads are unlit in this country and don't have accidents.TONY WALES

The inquiry into the cause of this accident should be interesting.
Street lights help but I have driven this section of motorway many times, you just need to have some common sense, and not drive too fast.

The faster you are in this world ...the sooner you will get into the next.

Plenty of roads are unlit in this country and don't have accidents.

Score: 51

Old Alzheimer
9:51pm Sun 27 Jul 14

Drive at a speed so that you can STOP in the distance you can see to be clear.

That helps !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Drive at a speed so that you can STOP in the distance you can see to be clear.
That helps !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!Old Alzheimer

Drive at a speed so that you can STOP in the distance you can see to be clear.

That helps !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Score: 35

sophiered
9:53pm Sat 26 Jul 14

Pendlesider wrote…

driving on the same stretch yesterday, there is the outside lane closed for maintenance on westbound and we were down to crawling speed. some idiotic drivers ignored the closed lane sign and simply sped past vehicles on the inside lane right up to the barriers then tried to jump the queue.
if similar happened at night time and no street lights then possibly explain accident but better to wait and see report. signage at brierfield roundabout states work starts at nights from 26th July for a week. condolences to family.

did not happen on the stretch where the road works are and cars have headlights why is everyone blaming the street lights roads don't kill people bad driving does

[quote][p][bold]Pendlesider[/bold] wrote:
driving on the same stretch yesterday, there is the outside lane closed for maintenance on westbound and we were down to crawling speed. some idiotic drivers ignored the closed lane sign and simply sped past vehicles on the inside lane right up to the barriers then tried to jump the queue.
if similar happened at night time and no street lights then possibly explain accident but better to wait and see report. signage at brierfield roundabout states work starts at nights from 26th July for a week. condolences to family.[/p][/quote]did not happen on the stretch where the road works are and cars have headlights why is everyone blaming the street lights roads don't kill people bad driving doessophiered

Pendlesider wrote…

driving on the same stretch yesterday, there is the outside lane closed for maintenance on westbound and we were down to crawling speed. some idiotic drivers ignored the closed lane sign and simply sped past vehicles on the inside lane right up to the barriers then tried to jump the queue.
if similar happened at night time and no street lights then possibly explain accident but better to wait and see report. signage at brierfield roundabout states work starts at nights from 26th July for a week. condolences to family.

did not happen on the stretch where the road works are and cars have headlights why is everyone blaming the street lights roads don't kill people bad driving does

Score: 49

sophiered
9:52pm Sat 26 Jul 14

Smacx25 wrote…

RIP guys :(
Unlit motorway, so dangerous at night and all to save a few pounds

behave cars have head lights

[quote][p][bold]Smacx25[/bold] wrote:
RIP guys :(
Unlit motorway, so dangerous at night and all to save a few pounds[/p][/quote]behave cars have head lightssophiered

Smacx25 wrote…

RIP guys :(
Unlit motorway, so dangerous at night and all to save a few pounds

behave cars have head lights

Score: 43

sophiered
9:56pm Sat 26 Jul 14

superdad1 wrote…

peely wrote…

Doesn't, sound like a straight forward accident - sure all will be revealed in time !

Speeding comes to mind,

3 small cars on the same part of the motorway at 2.15 at night seems they will have known each other or racing

[quote][p][bold]superdad1[/bold] wrote:
[quote][p][bold]peely[/bold] wrote:
Doesn't, sound like a straight forward accident - sure all will be revealed in time ![/p][/quote]Speeding comes to mind,[/p][/quote]3 small cars on the same part of the motorway at 2.15 at night seems they will have known each other or racingsophiered

superdad1 wrote…

peely wrote…

Doesn't, sound like a straight forward accident - sure all will be revealed in time !

Speeding comes to mind,

3 small cars on the same part of the motorway at 2.15 at night seems they will have known each other or racing

Score: 9

celerysue25
10:48pm Sat 26 Jul 14

I was first on the scene just moments after it had happened. I was the one who rang 999. 2 overturned cars in the middle of both lanes. 2 guys dead to the left of my car. The road was so dark I only stopped 10 feet from the cars in the middle of the lane. Debris everywhere skid marka for hundreds of meters. I was there til 6am this morning as they wouldnt let me move my car til photos and all evidence was documented. I have never been so horrified in my life.
Nobody seemed to know what happened and ita not like you can ask everyone involved either to get the full story.
Im telling you now if I hadnt had my brand new car and I had my old one I would have been in the smash too. I didnt even see the blue car til I got out my car as a guy was emerging from the silver one.
Nobody knew eachother so a pre planned race doesnt seem likely but I wont rule it out.

The police and ambulance and fire crew did a good job of clearing the hundreds of cars back down the motorway to get people on their way. So well done to them.

Also everyone stuck was looking after eachother. Offering drinks and even food to those people that had to open/close their fasts.

There were no working street lights and the only car that had hazards on or lights was mine when i arrived. It was very difficult to see what was infront of me. But lets just wait for the police to do their investigation before making any more assumptions.

I was first on the scene just moments after it had happened. I was the one who rang 999. 2 overturned cars in the middle of both lanes. 2 guys dead to the left of my car. The road was so dark I only stopped 10 feet from the cars in the middle of the lane. Debris everywhere skid marka for hundreds of meters. I was there til 6am this morning as they wouldnt let me move my car til photos and all evidence was documented. I have never been so horrified in my life.
Nobody seemed to know what happened and ita not like you can ask everyone involved either to get the full story.
Im telling you now if I hadnt had my brand new car and I had my old one I would have been in the smash too. I didnt even see the blue car til I got out my car as a guy was emerging from the silver one.
Nobody knew eachother so a pre planned race doesnt seem likely but I wont rule it out.
The police and ambulance and fire crew did a good job of clearing the hundreds of cars back down the motorway to get people on their way. So well done to them.
Also everyone stuck was looking after eachother. Offering drinks and even food to those people that had to open/close their fasts.
There were no working street lights and the only car that had hazards on or lights was mine when i arrived. It was very difficult to see what was infront of me. But lets just wait for the police to do their investigation before making any more assumptions.celerysue25

I was first on the scene just moments after it had happened. I was the one who rang 999. 2 overturned cars in the middle of both lanes. 2 guys dead to the left of my car. The road was so dark I only stopped 10 feet from the cars in the middle of the lane. Debris everywhere skid marka for hundreds of meters. I was there til 6am this morning as they wouldnt let me move my car til photos and all evidence was documented. I have never been so horrified in my life.
Nobody seemed to know what happened and ita not like you can ask everyone involved either to get the full story.
Im telling you now if I hadnt had my brand new car and I had my old one I would have been in the smash too. I didnt even see the blue car til I got out my car as a guy was emerging from the silver one.
Nobody knew eachother so a pre planned race doesnt seem likely but I wont rule it out.

The police and ambulance and fire crew did a good job of clearing the hundreds of cars back down the motorway to get people on their way. So well done to them.

Also everyone stuck was looking after eachother. Offering drinks and even food to those people that had to open/close their fasts.

There were no working street lights and the only car that had hazards on or lights was mine when i arrived. It was very difficult to see what was infront of me. But lets just wait for the police to do their investigation before making any more assumptions.

Score: 188

glossopkid
11:03pm Sat 26 Jul 14

celerysue25 wrote…

I was first on the scene just moments after it had happened. I was the one who rang 999. 2 overturned cars in the middle of both lanes. 2 guys dead to the left of my car. The road was so dark I only stopped 10 feet from the cars in the middle of the lane. Debris everywhere skid marka for hundreds of meters. I was there til 6am this morning as they wouldnt let me move my car til photos and all evidence was documented. I have never been so horrified in my life.
Nobody seemed to know what happened and ita not like you can ask everyone involved either to get the full story.
Im telling you now if I hadnt had my brand new car and I had my old one I would have been in the smash too. I didnt even see the blue car til I got out my car as a guy was emerging from the silver one.
Nobody knew eachother so a pre planned race doesnt seem likely but I wont rule it out.

The police and ambulance and fire crew did a good job of clearing the hundreds of cars back down the motorway to get people on their way. So well done to them.

Also everyone stuck was looking after eachother. Offering drinks and even food to those people that had to open/close their fasts.

There were no working street lights and the only car that had hazards on or lights was mine when i arrived. It was very difficult to see what was infront of me. But lets just wait for the police to do their investigation before making any more assumptions.

Well said! Can we please at least have some sympathy for the 2 people who died. Let's not make assumptions. Let the families grieve for their loved ones in peace as they don't need to read some of these comments above.

[quote][p][bold]celerysue25[/bold] wrote:
I was first on the scene just moments after it had happened. I was the one who rang 999. 2 overturned cars in the middle of both lanes. 2 guys dead to the left of my car. The road was so dark I only stopped 10 feet from the cars in the middle of the lane. Debris everywhere skid marka for hundreds of meters. I was there til 6am this morning as they wouldnt let me move my car til photos and all evidence was documented. I have never been so horrified in my life.
Nobody seemed to know what happened and ita not like you can ask everyone involved either to get the full story.
Im telling you now if I hadnt had my brand new car and I had my old one I would have been in the smash too. I didnt even see the blue car til I got out my car as a guy was emerging from the silver one.
Nobody knew eachother so a pre planned race doesnt seem likely but I wont rule it out.
The police and ambulance and fire crew did a good job of clearing the hundreds of cars back down the motorway to get people on their way. So well done to them.
Also everyone stuck was looking after eachother. Offering drinks and even food to those people that had to open/close their fasts.
There were no working street lights and the only car that had hazards on or lights was mine when i arrived. It was very difficult to see what was infront of me. But lets just wait for the police to do their investigation before making any more assumptions.[/p][/quote]Well said! Can we please at least have some sympathy for the 2 people who died. Let's not make assumptions. Let the families grieve for their loved ones in peace as they don't need to read some of these comments above.glossopkid

celerysue25 wrote…

I was first on the scene just moments after it had happened. I was the one who rang 999. 2 overturned cars in the middle of both lanes. 2 guys dead to the left of my car. The road was so dark I only stopped 10 feet from the cars in the middle of the lane. Debris everywhere skid marka for hundreds of meters. I was there til 6am this morning as they wouldnt let me move my car til photos and all evidence was documented. I have never been so horrified in my life.
Nobody seemed to know what happened and ita not like you can ask everyone involved either to get the full story.
Im telling you now if I hadnt had my brand new car and I had my old one I would have been in the smash too. I didnt even see the blue car til I got out my car as a guy was emerging from the silver one.
Nobody knew eachother so a pre planned race doesnt seem likely but I wont rule it out.

The police and ambulance and fire crew did a good job of clearing the hundreds of cars back down the motorway to get people on their way. So well done to them.

Also everyone stuck was looking after eachother. Offering drinks and even food to those people that had to open/close their fasts.

There were no working street lights and the only car that had hazards on or lights was mine when i arrived. It was very difficult to see what was infront of me. But lets just wait for the police to do their investigation before making any more assumptions.

Well said! Can we please at least have some sympathy for the 2 people who died. Let's not make assumptions. Let the families grieve for their loved ones in peace as they don't need to read some of these comments above.

Score: 110

coates warder
11:53pm Sat 26 Jul 14

Smacx25 wrote…

RIP guys :(
Unlit motorway, so dangerous at night and all to save a few pounds

cars have headlights no excuse

[quote][p][bold]Smacx25[/bold] wrote:
RIP guys :(
Unlit motorway, so dangerous at night and all to save a few pounds[/p][/quote]cars have headlights no excusecoates warder

Smacx25 wrote…

RIP guys :(
Unlit motorway, so dangerous at night and all to save a few pounds

cars have headlights no excuse

Score: -25

Ickyman
8:03am Sun 27 Jul 14

celerysue25 wrote…

I was first on the scene just moments after it had happened. I was the one who rang 999. 2 overturned cars in the middle of both lanes. 2 guys dead to the left of my car. The road was so dark I only stopped 10 feet from the cars in the middle of the lane. Debris everywhere skid marka for hundreds of meters. I was there til 6am this morning as they wouldnt let me move my car til photos and all evidence was documented. I have never been so horrified in my life.
Nobody seemed to know what happened and ita not like you can ask everyone involved either to get the full story.
Im telling you now if I hadnt had my brand new car and I had my old one I would have been in the smash too. I didnt even see the blue car til I got out my car as a guy was emerging from the silver one.
Nobody knew eachother so a pre planned race doesnt seem likely but I wont rule it out.

The police and ambulance and fire crew did a good job of clearing the hundreds of cars back down the motorway to get people on their way. So well done to them.

Also everyone stuck was looking after eachother. Offering drinks and even food to those people that had to open/close their fasts.

There were no working street lights and the only car that had hazards on or lights was mine when i arrived. It was very difficult to see what was infront of me. But lets just wait for the police to do their investigation before making any more assumptions.

Skid marks for hundreds of meters!
The stopping distance at 70mph is 96 meters road lighting or not.

[quote][p][bold]celerysue25[/bold] wrote:
I was first on the scene just moments after it had happened. I was the one who rang 999. 2 overturned cars in the middle of both lanes. 2 guys dead to the left of my car. The road was so dark I only stopped 10 feet from the cars in the middle of the lane. Debris everywhere skid marka for hundreds of meters. I was there til 6am this morning as they wouldnt let me move my car til photos and all evidence was documented. I have never been so horrified in my life.
Nobody seemed to know what happened and ita not like you can ask everyone involved either to get the full story.
Im telling you now if I hadnt had my brand new car and I had my old one I would have been in the smash too. I didnt even see the blue car til I got out my car as a guy was emerging from the silver one.
Nobody knew eachother so a pre planned race doesnt seem likely but I wont rule it out.
The police and ambulance and fire crew did a good job of clearing the hundreds of cars back down the motorway to get people on their way. So well done to them.
Also everyone stuck was looking after eachother. Offering drinks and even food to those people that had to open/close their fasts.
There were no working street lights and the only car that had hazards on or lights was mine when i arrived. It was very difficult to see what was infront of me. But lets just wait for the police to do their investigation before making any more assumptions.[/p][/quote]Skid marks for hundreds of meters!
The stopping distance at 70mph is 96 meters road lighting or not.Ickyman

celerysue25 wrote…

I was first on the scene just moments after it had happened. I was the one who rang 999. 2 overturned cars in the middle of both lanes. 2 guys dead to the left of my car. The road was so dark I only stopped 10 feet from the cars in the middle of the lane. Debris everywhere skid marka for hundreds of meters. I was there til 6am this morning as they wouldnt let me move my car til photos and all evidence was documented. I have never been so horrified in my life.
Nobody seemed to know what happened and ita not like you can ask everyone involved either to get the full story.
Im telling you now if I hadnt had my brand new car and I had my old one I would have been in the smash too. I didnt even see the blue car til I got out my car as a guy was emerging from the silver one.
Nobody knew eachother so a pre planned race doesnt seem likely but I wont rule it out.

The police and ambulance and fire crew did a good job of clearing the hundreds of cars back down the motorway to get people on their way. So well done to them.

Also everyone stuck was looking after eachother. Offering drinks and even food to those people that had to open/close their fasts.

There were no working street lights and the only car that had hazards on or lights was mine when i arrived. It was very difficult to see what was infront of me. But lets just wait for the police to do their investigation before making any more assumptions.

Skid marks for hundreds of meters!
The stopping distance at 70mph is 96 meters road lighting or not.

Score: 33

bluewindow
10:45am Sun 27 Jul 14

How many miles of road in the uk are unlit? Stop jumping on the band wagon. The last crash on the unlit section of the m65 was due the guy being 3times the drink drive limit. Nothing to do with no light simple bad driving!!!

How many miles of road in the uk are unlit? Stop jumping on the band wagon. The last crash on the unlit section of the m65 was due the guy being 3times the drink drive limit. Nothing to do with no light simple bad driving!!!bluewindow

How many miles of road in the uk are unlit? Stop jumping on the band wagon. The last crash on the unlit section of the m65 was due the guy being 3times the drink drive limit. Nothing to do with no light simple bad driving!!!

Score: 42

celerysue25
12:07pm Sun 27 Jul 14

bluewindow wrote…

How many miles of road in the uk are unlit? Stop jumping on the band wagon. The last crash on the unlit section of the m65 was due the guy being 3times the drink drive limit. Nothing to do with no light simple bad driving!!!

Im.not saying bad driving isnt to blame for the first crashed car but how can you say a race or bad driving for all 3 when I could have easily been involved too having not seen lights or anything until I came to a complete stop with 2 overturned cars infront of me. The only reason I started to slow down was when I was confronted with glass, plastic, exhaust pipes etc etc all thrown across the road. If I had hit one of the pieces I too wouldnt have stopped in time

[quote][p][bold]bluewindow[/bold] wrote:
How many miles of road in the uk are unlit? Stop jumping on the band wagon. The last crash on the unlit section of the m65 was due the guy being 3times the drink drive limit. Nothing to do with no light simple bad driving!!![/p][/quote]Im.not saying bad driving isnt to blame for the first crashed car but how can you say a race or bad driving for all 3 when I could have easily been involved too having not seen lights or anything until I came to a complete stop with 2 overturned cars infront of me. The only reason I started to slow down was when I was confronted with glass, plastic, exhaust pipes etc etc all thrown across the road. If I had hit one of the pieces I too wouldnt have stopped in timecelerysue25

bluewindow wrote…

How many miles of road in the uk are unlit? Stop jumping on the band wagon. The last crash on the unlit section of the m65 was due the guy being 3times the drink drive limit. Nothing to do with no light simple bad driving!!!

Im.not saying bad driving isnt to blame for the first crashed car but how can you say a race or bad driving for all 3 when I could have easily been involved too having not seen lights or anything until I came to a complete stop with 2 overturned cars infront of me. The only reason I started to slow down was when I was confronted with glass, plastic, exhaust pipes etc etc all thrown across the road. If I had hit one of the pieces I too wouldnt have stopped in time

Score: 23

HarryBosch
1:48pm Sun 27 Jul 14

Witout pre - judging what MAY or MAY NOT be the cause of this incident, I would just like to impart my thoughts on the issue of speed. The speed limit on most motorways is 70mph. On a clear, dry day, on a motorway that is not very busy, it may well be safe to drive to the limit. But at night, with no lighting and low or no moonlight it would be SAFER to reduce your speed to 50mph. That would reduce your stopping distance by ALMOST HALF! However, some drivers cannot seem to grasp that concept.
As one poster has already pointed out - it is better to arrive late in this world than to arrive too early in the next!

Witout pre - judging what MAY or MAY NOT be the cause of this incident, I would just like to impart my thoughts on the issue of speed. The speed limit on most motorways is 70mph. On a clear, dry day, on a motorway that is not very busy, it may well be safe to drive to the limit. But at night, with no lighting and low or no moonlight it would be SAFER to reduce your speed to 50mph. That would reduce your stopping distance by ALMOST HALF! However, some drivers cannot seem to grasp that concept.
As one poster has already pointed out - it is better to arrive late in this world than to arrive too early in the next!HarryBosch

Witout pre - judging what MAY or MAY NOT be the cause of this incident, I would just like to impart my thoughts on the issue of speed. The speed limit on most motorways is 70mph. On a clear, dry day, on a motorway that is not very busy, it may well be safe to drive to the limit. But at night, with no lighting and low or no moonlight it would be SAFER to reduce your speed to 50mph. That would reduce your stopping distance by ALMOST HALF! However, some drivers cannot seem to grasp that concept.
As one poster has already pointed out - it is better to arrive late in this world than to arrive too early in the next!

Score: 44

Prinny79
3:22pm Sun 27 Jul 14

sophiered wrote…

Smacx25 wrote…

RIP guys :(
Unlit motorway, so dangerous at night and all to save a few pounds

behave cars have head lights

If car headlights are sufficient and street lighting bears no significance to accidents, then whats the purpose of street lighting. I say lets remove them from the whole country, and I suggest lets start with the M25. I wonder if this will change the ratio of road traffic accidents.

[quote][p][bold]sophiered[/bold] wrote:
[quote][p][bold]Smacx25[/bold] wrote:
RIP guys :(
Unlit motorway, so dangerous at night and all to save a few pounds[/p][/quote]behave cars have head lights[/p][/quote]If car headlights are sufficient and street lighting bears no significance to accidents, then whats the purpose of street lighting. I say lets remove them from the whole country, and I suggest lets start with the M25. I wonder if this will change the ratio of road traffic accidents.Prinny79

sophiered wrote…

Smacx25 wrote…

RIP guys :(
Unlit motorway, so dangerous at night and all to save a few pounds

behave cars have head lights

If car headlights are sufficient and street lighting bears no significance to accidents, then whats the purpose of street lighting. I say lets remove them from the whole country, and I suggest lets start with the M25. I wonder if this will change the ratio of road traffic accidents.

Score: 29

HelmshoreBoy
3:27pm Sun 27 Jul 14

Between junctions 9 & 10 its as straight as an arrow and with a slight incline!

Lights or no lights. Its just pi$$ poor driving.

Its not the roads, its the drivers..........

Between junctions 9 & 10 its as straight as an arrow and with a slight incline!
Lights or no lights. Its just pi$$ poor driving.
Its not the roads, its the drivers..........HelmshoreBoy

Between junctions 9 & 10 its as straight as an arrow and with a slight incline!

Lights or no lights. Its just pi$$ poor driving.

Its not the roads, its the drivers..........

Score: 34

yyy's1
5:49pm Sun 27 Jul 14

Prinny 79 wrote "lets remove street lighting from the whole country"
Street lighting is there for pedestrians not just for motorist D H.

Prinny 79 wrote "lets remove street lighting from the whole country"
Street lighting is there for pedestrians not just for motorist D H.yyy's1

Prinny 79 wrote "lets remove street lighting from the whole country"
Street lighting is there for pedestrians not just for motorist D H.

Score: -3

Dsalas
6:45pm Sun 27 Jul 14

Can we just have some sympathy for the families.

Some of these comments seriously.

As for cars having headlights. It's still important to have lighting on a motorway. Travelling at those speeds in darkness is dangerous. Your headlights will only offer vision upto a certain distance. Had there been something like a broken down car/van/lorry - By the time your headlight sees them you'd have to swerve out of the way.

Can we just have some sympathy for the families.
Some of these comments seriously.
As for cars having headlights. It's still important to have lighting on a motorway. Travelling at those speeds in darkness is dangerous. Your headlights will only offer vision upto a certain distance. Had there been something like a broken down car/van/lorry - By the time your headlight sees them you'd have to swerve out of the way.Dsalas

Can we just have some sympathy for the families.

Some of these comments seriously.

As for cars having headlights. It's still important to have lighting on a motorway. Travelling at those speeds in darkness is dangerous. Your headlights will only offer vision upto a certain distance. Had there been something like a broken down car/van/lorry - By the time your headlight sees them you'd have to swerve out of the way.

Score: 16

Prinny79
3:15am Mon 28 Jul 14

yyy's1 wrote…

Prinny 79 wrote "lets remove street lighting from the whole country"
Street lighting is there for pedestrians not just for motorist D H.

Apologies, I meant remove street lighting on motorways. And besides pedestrian's should be walking on footpaths and not roads. And headlights on cars are visible a long way away should you need to cross the road.

[quote][p][bold]yyy's1[/bold] wrote:
Prinny 79 wrote "lets remove street lighting from the whole country"
Street lighting is there for pedestrians not just for motorist D H.[/p][/quote]Apologies, I meant remove street lighting on motorways. And besides pedestrian's should be walking on footpaths and not roads. And headlights on cars are visible a long way away should you need to cross the road.Prinny79

yyy's1 wrote…

Prinny 79 wrote "lets remove street lighting from the whole country"
Street lighting is there for pedestrians not just for motorist D H.

Apologies, I meant remove street lighting on motorways. And besides pedestrian's should be walking on footpaths and not roads. And headlights on cars are visible a long way away should you need to cross the road.

Score: 6

TONY WALES
9:27am Mon 28 Jul 14

bluewindow wrote…

How many miles of road in the uk are unlit? Stop jumping on the band wagon. The last crash on the unlit section of the m65 was due the guy being 3times the drink drive limit. Nothing to do with no light simple bad driving!!!

Do you wish to say the driver was over the drink drive limit, or they were breaking the speed limit....or both?

Really you need to wait until the results of the inquest, and the police investigation unit.

Th only thing you can say for certain is the fact that the motorway is unlit on this section.
This is not he cause of the accident, otherwise you would have many more accidents on unlit roads.

[quote][p][bold]bluewindow[/bold] wrote:
How many miles of road in the uk are unlit? Stop jumping on the band wagon. The last crash on the unlit section of the m65 was due the guy being 3times the drink drive limit. Nothing to do with no light simple bad driving!!![/p][/quote]Do you wish to say the driver was over the drink drive limit, or they were breaking the speed limit....or both?
Really you need to wait until the results of the inquest, and the police investigation unit.
Th only thing you can say for certain is the fact that the motorway is unlit on this section.
This is not he cause of the accident, otherwise you would have many more accidents on unlit roads.TONY WALES

bluewindow wrote…

How many miles of road in the uk are unlit? Stop jumping on the band wagon. The last crash on the unlit section of the m65 was due the guy being 3times the drink drive limit. Nothing to do with no light simple bad driving!!!

Do you wish to say the driver was over the drink drive limit, or they were breaking the speed limit....or both?

Really you need to wait until the results of the inquest, and the police investigation unit.

Th only thing you can say for certain is the fact that the motorway is unlit on this section.
This is not he cause of the accident, otherwise you would have many more accidents on unlit roads.

Score: 17

saloon drifter
9:31am Mon 28 Jul 14

Bad driving is most likely the cause for this accident.
The whole length of the M55 has no lights and has very few accidents.
You should always drive at a speed in which you can see and stop if needed, if visibility is poor slow down.

Bad driving is most likely the cause for this accident.
The whole length of the M55 has no lights and has very few accidents.
You should always drive at a speed in which you can see and stop if needed, if visibility is poor slow down.saloon drifter

Bad driving is most likely the cause for this accident.
The whole length of the M55 has no lights and has very few accidents.
You should always drive at a speed in which you can see and stop if needed, if visibility is poor slow down.

Score: 31

yyy's1
9:42am Mon 28 Jul 14

Prinny 79 you are obsessed with motor vehicles, street lighting is needed so that pedestrians can walk the streets in comparative safety when it is dark.
Street lighting enables pedestrians to see who is about, it also enables people to witness any event which may be happening and perhaps give assistance, try to see the bigger picture.

Prinny 79 you are obsessed with motor vehicles, street lighting is needed so that pedestrians can walk the streets in comparative safety when it is dark.
Street lighting enables pedestrians to see who is about, it also enables people to witness any event which may be happening and perhaps give assistance, try to see the bigger picture.yyy's1

Prinny 79 you are obsessed with motor vehicles, street lighting is needed so that pedestrians can walk the streets in comparative safety when it is dark.
Street lighting enables pedestrians to see who is about, it also enables people to witness any event which may be happening and perhaps give assistance, try to see the bigger picture.

Score: 14

shimmy
9:46am Mon 28 Jul 14

There are some appalling comments about this incident. Two people lost their lives and it may be that better lighting on the motorway would have prevented it. I have driven from Manchester to Burnley on a wet night and the number of unlit spots on the Motorway is frightening.

There are some appalling comments about this incident. Two people lost their lives and it may be that better lighting on the motorway would have prevented it. I have driven from Manchester to Burnley on a wet night and the number of unlit spots on the Motorway is frightening.shimmy

There are some appalling comments about this incident. Two people lost their lives and it may be that better lighting on the motorway would have prevented it. I have driven from Manchester to Burnley on a wet night and the number of unlit spots on the Motorway is frightening.

Score: 18

chammy
9:58am Mon 28 Jul 14

These accidents are unacceptable,to everyone and the sooner the authorities actually do something to stop them,there will be tragic stories like this happening far to often,It is disgusting how people keep losing their lives but still nothing is done,how can you put money before lives.

These accidents are unacceptable,to everyone and the sooner the authorities actually do something to stop them,there will be tragic stories like this happening far to often,It is disgusting how people keep losing their lives but still nothing is done,how can you put money before lives.chammy

These accidents are unacceptable,to everyone and the sooner the authorities actually do something to stop them,there will be tragic stories like this happening far to often,It is disgusting how people keep losing their lives but still nothing is done,how can you put money before lives.

Score: 2

rudis_dad
10:37am Mon 28 Jul 14

Whilst I agree that it is a terrible tragedy that these two people have lost their lives, I am firmly in the camp that believes that most accidents could be prevented by higher driving standards.

As someone who spends an lot of the working week using the motorway network it's plain to see that in the last 15 - 20 years the volume of traffic has increased massivley, yet at the same time the standard of driving has decreased alarmingly over the same period. I put this down to an over-reliance on safety devices and systems now fitted to modern vehicles. Ostensibly, these systems are there to assist the driver but in reality remove a lot of the responsibility for actually being able to control a vehicle properly. How many of you would know how to brake hard without locking the wheels and skidding in a car with no ABS? How many of you can control a car with no traction control system on snow or ice? There's a difference between knwoing how to drive and knowing how to operate a motor vehicle.

Then there's the matter of being fit to drive - the number of people I know whose eyesight is alarmingly poor yet who still drive is frightening. What is the first thing that happens on the practical driving test? You're asked to read a standard number plate from 20 metres away - if you can't do it, then you fail. Simple as. Try it during your lunch break - how many of you would actually pass your driving test now? And if you can't see during daylight, what hope have you got on an unlit road at night?

To my mind there is a strong case for every driver to be retested every five years, especially as traffic volumes increase. There is also a case for compulsory medicals including an eyesight test at regular intervals - HGV drivers have to have a medical, so why not everyone else?

As was the case with the previous fatal accident on an unlit stretch of the M65, the truth will out. There is a good possibility that one of the vehicles involved may have developed a serious fault such as a sudden puncture which caused the driver to lose control; but I would happily put money on the main reason being a poor standard of driving for the prevailing conditions.

Until people get the simple message that the best method of survival in adverse driving conditions is to slow down and give yourself and those around you more room, then regrettably these types of incidents will continue to occur.

My condolences to the families.

Whilst I agree that it is a terrible tragedy that these two people have lost their lives, I am firmly in the camp that believes that most accidents could be prevented by higher driving standards.
As someone who spends an lot of the working week using the motorway network it's plain to see that in the last 15 - 20 years the volume of traffic has increased massivley, yet at the same time the standard of driving has decreased alarmingly over the same period. I put this down to an over-reliance on safety devices and systems now fitted to modern vehicles. Ostensibly, these systems are there to assist the driver but in reality remove a lot of the responsibility for actually being able to control a vehicle properly. How many of you would know how to brake hard without locking the wheels and skidding in a car with no ABS? How many of you can control a car with no traction control system on snow or ice? There's a difference between knwoing how to drive and knowing how to operate a motor vehicle.
Then there's the matter of being fit to drive - the number of people I know whose eyesight is alarmingly poor yet who still drive is frightening. What is the first thing that happens on the practical driving test? You're asked to read a standard number plate from 20 metres away - if you can't do it, then you fail. Simple as. Try it during your lunch break - how many of you would actually pass your driving test now? And if you can't see during daylight, what hope have you got on an unlit road at night?
To my mind there is a strong case for every driver to be retested every five years, especially as traffic volumes increase. There is also a case for compulsory medicals including an eyesight test at regular intervals - HGV drivers have to have a medical, so why not everyone else?
As was the case with the previous fatal accident on an unlit stretch of the M65, the truth will out. There is a good possibility that one of the vehicles involved may have developed a serious fault such as a sudden puncture which caused the driver to lose control; but I would happily put money on the main reason being a poor standard of driving for the prevailing conditions.
Until people get the simple message that the best method of survival in adverse driving conditions is to slow down and give yourself and those around you more room, then regrettably these types of incidents will continue to occur.
My condolences to the families.rudis_dad

Whilst I agree that it is a terrible tragedy that these two people have lost their lives, I am firmly in the camp that believes that most accidents could be prevented by higher driving standards.

As someone who spends an lot of the working week using the motorway network it's plain to see that in the last 15 - 20 years the volume of traffic has increased massivley, yet at the same time the standard of driving has decreased alarmingly over the same period. I put this down to an over-reliance on safety devices and systems now fitted to modern vehicles. Ostensibly, these systems are there to assist the driver but in reality remove a lot of the responsibility for actually being able to control a vehicle properly. How many of you would know how to brake hard without locking the wheels and skidding in a car with no ABS? How many of you can control a car with no traction control system on snow or ice? There's a difference between knwoing how to drive and knowing how to operate a motor vehicle.

Then there's the matter of being fit to drive - the number of people I know whose eyesight is alarmingly poor yet who still drive is frightening. What is the first thing that happens on the practical driving test? You're asked to read a standard number plate from 20 metres away - if you can't do it, then you fail. Simple as. Try it during your lunch break - how many of you would actually pass your driving test now? And if you can't see during daylight, what hope have you got on an unlit road at night?

To my mind there is a strong case for every driver to be retested every five years, especially as traffic volumes increase. There is also a case for compulsory medicals including an eyesight test at regular intervals - HGV drivers have to have a medical, so why not everyone else?

As was the case with the previous fatal accident on an unlit stretch of the M65, the truth will out. There is a good possibility that one of the vehicles involved may have developed a serious fault such as a sudden puncture which caused the driver to lose control; but I would happily put money on the main reason being a poor standard of driving for the prevailing conditions.

Until people get the simple message that the best method of survival in adverse driving conditions is to slow down and give yourself and those around you more room, then regrettably these types of incidents will continue to occur.

My condolences to the families.

Score: 32

emigrator
11:03am Mon 28 Jul 14

Surely the matter of lighting is not rocket science. Certain stretches of motorway remain fully lit and other sections are totally unlit. If every second or third light was lit on every stretch the motorways would be safer and the necessary savings both financial and carbon related would be made. A response from someone responsible would be appreciated.

Surely the matter of lighting is not rocket science. Certain stretches of motorway remain fully lit and other sections are totally unlit. If every second or third light was lit on every stretch the motorways would be safer and the necessary savings both financial and carbon related would be made. A response from someone responsible would be appreciated.emigrator

Surely the matter of lighting is not rocket science. Certain stretches of motorway remain fully lit and other sections are totally unlit. If every second or third light was lit on every stretch the motorways would be safer and the necessary savings both financial and carbon related would be made. A response from someone responsible would be appreciated.

Score: 22

jockjas
11:01am Mon 28 Jul 14

rudis_dad wrote…

Whilst I agree that it is a terrible tragedy that these two people have lost their lives, I am firmly in the camp that believes that most accidents could be prevented by higher driving standards.

As someone who spends an lot of the working week using the motorway network it's plain to see that in the last 15 - 20 years the volume of traffic has increased massivley, yet at the same time the standard of driving has decreased alarmingly over the same period. I put this down to an over-reliance on safety devices and systems now fitted to modern vehicles. Ostensibly, these systems are there to assist the driver but in reality remove a lot of the responsibility for actually being able to control a vehicle properly. How many of you would know how to brake hard without locking the wheels and skidding in a car with no ABS? How many of you can control a car with no traction control system on snow or ice? There's a difference between knwoing how to drive and knowing how to operate a motor vehicle.

Then there's the matter of being fit to drive - the number of people I know whose eyesight is alarmingly poor yet who still drive is frightening. What is the first thing that happens on the practical driving test? You're asked to read a standard number plate from 20 metres away - if you can't do it, then you fail. Simple as. Try it during your lunch break - how many of you would actually pass your driving test now? And if you can't see during daylight, what hope have you got on an unlit road at night?

To my mind there is a strong case for every driver to be retested every five years, especially as traffic volumes increase. There is also a case for compulsory medicals including an eyesight test at regular intervals - HGV drivers have to have a medical, so why not everyone else?

As was the case with the previous fatal accident on an unlit stretch of the M65, the truth will out. There is a good possibility that one of the vehicles involved may have developed a serious fault such as a sudden puncture which caused the driver to lose control; but I would happily put money on the main reason being a poor standard of driving for the prevailing conditions.

Until people get the simple message that the best method of survival in adverse driving conditions is to slow down and give yourself and those around you more room, then regrettably these types of incidents will continue to occur.

My condolences to the families.

Very well said. I learned to drive over 40 years ago when cars were much more basic (especially those I could afford) and it was essential to learn how to drive within the capabilities of both the car and myself. We all were inclined to carry out general maintenance on our own cars because a) the skills needed were much less than for the computers on wheels we all now drive and b) the cost element. Beauty of that though was we learned to appreciate limitations and treated our own cars, our own driving skills, and the cars and skills of others with much more respect and a healthy degree of apprehension. Rather than purely bad driving being a problem, and I make no judgement in this unfortunate case, a lack of basic knowledge and understanding of many elements under the overall heading 'driving' have an enormous impact upon skill levels. As celery sue also says her new car stopped in time, her old one wouldn't have. Let's be thankful she had upgraded her vehicle. Over reliance on technology may reduce drivers appreciation of the dangers faced when they turn the key of a killing machine.

[quote][p][bold]rudis_dad[/bold] wrote:
Whilst I agree that it is a terrible tragedy that these two people have lost their lives, I am firmly in the camp that believes that most accidents could be prevented by higher driving standards.
As someone who spends an lot of the working week using the motorway network it's plain to see that in the last 15 - 20 years the volume of traffic has increased massivley, yet at the same time the standard of driving has decreased alarmingly over the same period. I put this down to an over-reliance on safety devices and systems now fitted to modern vehicles. Ostensibly, these systems are there to assist the driver but in reality remove a lot of the responsibility for actually being able to control a vehicle properly. How many of you would know how to brake hard without locking the wheels and skidding in a car with no ABS? How many of you can control a car with no traction control system on snow or ice? There's a difference between knwoing how to drive and knowing how to operate a motor vehicle.
Then there's the matter of being fit to drive - the number of people I know whose eyesight is alarmingly poor yet who still drive is frightening. What is the first thing that happens on the practical driving test? You're asked to read a standard number plate from 20 metres away - if you can't do it, then you fail. Simple as. Try it during your lunch break - how many of you would actually pass your driving test now? And if you can't see during daylight, what hope have you got on an unlit road at night?
To my mind there is a strong case for every driver to be retested every five years, especially as traffic volumes increase. There is also a case for compulsory medicals including an eyesight test at regular intervals - HGV drivers have to have a medical, so why not everyone else?
As was the case with the previous fatal accident on an unlit stretch of the M65, the truth will out. There is a good possibility that one of the vehicles involved may have developed a serious fault such as a sudden puncture which caused the driver to lose control; but I would happily put money on the main reason being a poor standard of driving for the prevailing conditions.
Until people get the simple message that the best method of survival in adverse driving conditions is to slow down and give yourself and those around you more room, then regrettably these types of incidents will continue to occur.
My condolences to the families.[/p][/quote]Very well said. I learned to drive over 40 years ago when cars were much more basic (especially those I could afford) and it was essential to learn how to drive within the capabilities of both the car and myself. We all were inclined to carry out general maintenance on our own cars because a) the skills needed were much less than for the computers on wheels we all now drive and b) the cost element. Beauty of that though was we learned to appreciate limitations and treated our own cars, our own driving skills, and the cars and skills of others with much more respect and a healthy degree of apprehension. Rather than purely bad driving being a problem, and I make no judgement in this unfortunate case, a lack of basic knowledge and understanding of many elements under the overall heading 'driving' have an enormous impact upon skill levels. As celery sue also says her new car stopped in time, her old one wouldn't have. Let's be thankful she had upgraded her vehicle. Over reliance on technology may reduce drivers appreciation of the dangers faced when they turn the key of a killing machine.jockjas

rudis_dad wrote…

Whilst I agree that it is a terrible tragedy that these two people have lost their lives, I am firmly in the camp that believes that most accidents could be prevented by higher driving standards.

As someone who spends an lot of the working week using the motorway network it's plain to see that in the last 15 - 20 years the volume of traffic has increased massivley, yet at the same time the standard of driving has decreased alarmingly over the same period. I put this down to an over-reliance on safety devices and systems now fitted to modern vehicles. Ostensibly, these systems are there to assist the driver but in reality remove a lot of the responsibility for actually being able to control a vehicle properly. How many of you would know how to brake hard without locking the wheels and skidding in a car with no ABS? How many of you can control a car with no traction control system on snow or ice? There's a difference between knwoing how to drive and knowing how to operate a motor vehicle.

Then there's the matter of being fit to drive - the number of people I know whose eyesight is alarmingly poor yet who still drive is frightening. What is the first thing that happens on the practical driving test? You're asked to read a standard number plate from 20 metres away - if you can't do it, then you fail. Simple as. Try it during your lunch break - how many of you would actually pass your driving test now? And if you can't see during daylight, what hope have you got on an unlit road at night?

To my mind there is a strong case for every driver to be retested every five years, especially as traffic volumes increase. There is also a case for compulsory medicals including an eyesight test at regular intervals - HGV drivers have to have a medical, so why not everyone else?

As was the case with the previous fatal accident on an unlit stretch of the M65, the truth will out. There is a good possibility that one of the vehicles involved may have developed a serious fault such as a sudden puncture which caused the driver to lose control; but I would happily put money on the main reason being a poor standard of driving for the prevailing conditions.

Until people get the simple message that the best method of survival in adverse driving conditions is to slow down and give yourself and those around you more room, then regrettably these types of incidents will continue to occur.

My condolences to the families.

Very well said. I learned to drive over 40 years ago when cars were much more basic (especially those I could afford) and it was essential to learn how to drive within the capabilities of both the car and myself. We all were inclined to carry out general maintenance on our own cars because a) the skills needed were much less than for the computers on wheels we all now drive and b) the cost element. Beauty of that though was we learned to appreciate limitations and treated our own cars, our own driving skills, and the cars and skills of others with much more respect and a healthy degree of apprehension. Rather than purely bad driving being a problem, and I make no judgement in this unfortunate case, a lack of basic knowledge and understanding of many elements under the overall heading 'driving' have an enormous impact upon skill levels. As celery sue also says her new car stopped in time, her old one wouldn't have. Let's be thankful she had upgraded her vehicle. Over reliance on technology may reduce drivers appreciation of the dangers faced when they turn the key of a killing machine.

Score: 9

celerysue25
11:12am Mon 28 Jul 14

In the picture my car is the one infront of the first fire engine! Thats how close I came to a complete stop!!
I wasnt doing excessive speed and I only just stopped in time. If I had been a minute earlier maybe I would have seen what happened or even been in a position where I would have to swerve out the way.

You can say what you like about street lights being not needed but had they been on I would have been able to see the cars and the debris before I hit it all wayy further back.

In the picture my car is the one infront of the first fire engine! Thats how close I came to a complete stop!!
I wasnt doing excessive speed and I only just stopped in time. If I had been a minute earlier maybe I would have seen what happened or even been in a position where I would have to swerve out the way.
You can say what you like about street lights being not needed but had they been on I would have been able to see the cars and the debris before I hit it all wayy further back.celerysue25

In the picture my car is the one infront of the first fire engine! Thats how close I came to a complete stop!!
I wasnt doing excessive speed and I only just stopped in time. If I had been a minute earlier maybe I would have seen what happened or even been in a position where I would have to swerve out the way.

You can say what you like about street lights being not needed but had they been on I would have been able to see the cars and the debris before I hit it all wayy further back.

Score: 25

Oldmanofthemountains
11:33am Mon 28 Jul 14

Loss of life in this manner is always tragic, particularly for those who are left behind to pick up the pieces. However, playing a sort of devil's advocate role and trying to remain objective,, let's consider one or two points:

(1) The two men who were killed lived locally and had been working in Skelmersdale. This suggests that they were well acquainted with the stretch of road.
(2) The road is straight, road conditions were dry at the time and, as far as I know, apart from it being dark, visibility was otherwise good.
(3) At 0215, there was unlikely to be much traffic.

Naturally, no firm conclusions to be reached yet, and road lights MAY have been useful, but my gut feeling is that at least one of the three drivers was doing something pretty idiotic for an accident like this to have been caused.

Loss of life in this manner is always tragic, particularly for those who are left behind to pick up the pieces. However, playing a sort of devil's advocate role and trying to remain objective,, let's consider one or two points:
(1) The two men who were killed lived locally and had been working in Skelmersdale. This suggests that they were well acquainted with the stretch of road.
(2) The road is straight, road conditions were dry at the time and, as far as I know, apart from it being dark, visibility was otherwise good.
(3) At 0215, there was unlikely to be much traffic.
Naturally, no firm conclusions to be reached yet, and road lights MAY have been useful, but my gut feeling is that at least one of the three drivers was doing something pretty idiotic for an accident like this to have been caused.Oldmanofthemountains

Loss of life in this manner is always tragic, particularly for those who are left behind to pick up the pieces. However, playing a sort of devil's advocate role and trying to remain objective,, let's consider one or two points:

(1) The two men who were killed lived locally and had been working in Skelmersdale. This suggests that they were well acquainted with the stretch of road.
(2) The road is straight, road conditions were dry at the time and, as far as I know, apart from it being dark, visibility was otherwise good.
(3) At 0215, there was unlikely to be much traffic.

Naturally, no firm conclusions to be reached yet, and road lights MAY have been useful, but my gut feeling is that at least one of the three drivers was doing something pretty idiotic for an accident like this to have been caused.

Score: 33

eco/pendle
11:42am Mon 28 Jul 14

celerysue25 wrote…

I was first on the scene just moments after it had happened. I was the one who rang 999. 2 overturned cars in the middle of both lanes. 2 guys dead to the left of my car. The road was so dark I only stopped 10 feet from the cars in the middle of the lane. Debris everywhere skid marka for hundreds of meters. I was there til 6am this morning as they wouldnt let me move my car til photos and all evidence was documented. I have never been so horrified in my life.
Nobody seemed to know what happened and ita not like you can ask everyone involved either to get the full story.
Im telling you now if I hadnt had my brand new car and I had my old one I would have been in the smash too. I didnt even see the blue car til I got out my car as a guy was emerging from the silver one.
Nobody knew eachother so a pre planned race doesnt seem likely but I wont rule it out.

The police and ambulance and fire crew did a good job of clearing the hundreds of cars back down the motorway to get people on their way. So well done to them.

Also everyone stuck was looking after eachother. Offering drinks and even food to those people that had to open/close their fasts.

There were no working street lights and the only car that had hazards on or lights was mine when i arrived. It was very difficult to see what was infront of me. But lets just wait for the police to do their investigation before making any more assumptions.

someone with common sense and not presuming .how distressing for you to be in the situation you were in just glad you kept an unbiased head very traumaticic for you x

[quote][p][bold]celerysue25[/bold] wrote:
I was first on the scene just moments after it had happened. I was the one who rang 999. 2 overturned cars in the middle of both lanes. 2 guys dead to the left of my car. The road was so dark I only stopped 10 feet from the cars in the middle of the lane. Debris everywhere skid marka for hundreds of meters. I was there til 6am this morning as they wouldnt let me move my car til photos and all evidence was documented. I have never been so horrified in my life.
Nobody seemed to know what happened and ita not like you can ask everyone involved either to get the full story.
Im telling you now if I hadnt had my brand new car and I had my old one I would have been in the smash too. I didnt even see the blue car til I got out my car as a guy was emerging from the silver one.
Nobody knew eachother so a pre planned race doesnt seem likely but I wont rule it out.
The police and ambulance and fire crew did a good job of clearing the hundreds of cars back down the motorway to get people on their way. So well done to them.
Also everyone stuck was looking after eachother. Offering drinks and even food to those people that had to open/close their fasts.
There were no working street lights and the only car that had hazards on or lights was mine when i arrived. It was very difficult to see what was infront of me. But lets just wait for the police to do their investigation before making any more assumptions.[/p][/quote]someone with common sense and not presuming .how distressing for you to be in the situation you were in just glad you kept an unbiased head very traumaticic for you xeco/pendle

celerysue25 wrote…

I was first on the scene just moments after it had happened. I was the one who rang 999. 2 overturned cars in the middle of both lanes. 2 guys dead to the left of my car. The road was so dark I only stopped 10 feet from the cars in the middle of the lane. Debris everywhere skid marka for hundreds of meters. I was there til 6am this morning as they wouldnt let me move my car til photos and all evidence was documented. I have never been so horrified in my life.
Nobody seemed to know what happened and ita not like you can ask everyone involved either to get the full story.
Im telling you now if I hadnt had my brand new car and I had my old one I would have been in the smash too. I didnt even see the blue car til I got out my car as a guy was emerging from the silver one.
Nobody knew eachother so a pre planned race doesnt seem likely but I wont rule it out.

The police and ambulance and fire crew did a good job of clearing the hundreds of cars back down the motorway to get people on their way. So well done to them.

Also everyone stuck was looking after eachother. Offering drinks and even food to those people that had to open/close their fasts.

There were no working street lights and the only car that had hazards on or lights was mine when i arrived. It was very difficult to see what was infront of me. But lets just wait for the police to do their investigation before making any more assumptions.

someone with common sense and not presuming .how distressing for you to be in the situation you were in just glad you kept an unbiased head very traumaticic for you x

Score: 7

slants
3:21pm Mon 28 Jul 14

Im telling you now if I hadnt had my brand new car and I had my old one I would have been in the smash too. I didnt even see the blue car til I got out .
It would seem you need too go to specsavers lol

Im telling you now if I hadnt had my brand new car and I had my old one I would have been in the smash too. I didnt even see the blue car til I got out .
It would seem you need too go to specsavers lolslants

Im telling you now if I hadnt had my brand new car and I had my old one I would have been in the smash too. I didnt even see the blue car til I got out .
It would seem you need too go to specsavers lol

Score: -11

hasslem hasslem
12:04pm Mon 28 Jul 14

Oldmanofthemountains wrote…

Loss of life in this manner is always tragic, particularly for those who are left behind to pick up the pieces. However, playing a sort of devil's advocate role and trying to remain objective,, let's consider one or two points:

(1) The two men who were killed lived locally and had been working in Skelmersdale. This suggests that they were well acquainted with the stretch of road.
(2) The road is straight, road conditions were dry at the time and, as far as I know, apart from it being dark, visibility was otherwise good.
(3) At 0215, there was unlikely to be much traffic.

Naturally, no firm conclusions to be reached yet, and road lights MAY have been useful, but my gut feeling is that at least one of the three drivers was doing something pretty idiotic for an accident like this to have been caused.

but it is only your "gut feeling" - i reality unless you are a witness at the scene or one of the investigators - then your assumption is merely that. perhaps wait for the results of the investigation before being so quick to judge.

as someone who has driven all over the country extensively for my job(s) i have to say for some inexplicable reason there are sections of the m65 which seem completely blackout style dark compared to other motorways - i can't explain it.....it could be some optical illusion, but it is how it seems to me. but like your gut feel - this is just my opinion.

may everybody's thoughts be with the affected families at a very difficult time.

[quote][p][bold]Oldmanofthemountains[/bold] wrote:
Loss of life in this manner is always tragic, particularly for those who are left behind to pick up the pieces. However, playing a sort of devil's advocate role and trying to remain objective,, let's consider one or two points:
(1) The two men who were killed lived locally and had been working in Skelmersdale. This suggests that they were well acquainted with the stretch of road.
(2) The road is straight, road conditions were dry at the time and, as far as I know, apart from it being dark, visibility was otherwise good.
(3) At 0215, there was unlikely to be much traffic.
Naturally, no firm conclusions to be reached yet, and road lights MAY have been useful, but my gut feeling is that at least one of the three drivers was doing something pretty idiotic for an accident like this to have been caused.[/p][/quote]but it is only your "gut feeling" - i reality unless you are a witness at the scene or one of the investigators - then your assumption is merely that. perhaps wait for the results of the investigation before being so quick to judge.
as someone who has driven all over the country extensively for my job(s) i have to say for some inexplicable reason there are sections of the m65 which seem completely blackout style dark compared to other motorways - i can't explain it.....it could be some optical illusion, but it is how it seems to me. but like your gut feel - this is just my opinion.
may everybody's thoughts be with the affected families at a very difficult time.hasslem hasslem

Oldmanofthemountains wrote…

Loss of life in this manner is always tragic, particularly for those who are left behind to pick up the pieces. However, playing a sort of devil's advocate role and trying to remain objective,, let's consider one or two points:

(1) The two men who were killed lived locally and had been working in Skelmersdale. This suggests that they were well acquainted with the stretch of road.
(2) The road is straight, road conditions were dry at the time and, as far as I know, apart from it being dark, visibility was otherwise good.
(3) At 0215, there was unlikely to be much traffic.

Naturally, no firm conclusions to be reached yet, and road lights MAY have been useful, but my gut feeling is that at least one of the three drivers was doing something pretty idiotic for an accident like this to have been caused.

but it is only your "gut feeling" - i reality unless you are a witness at the scene or one of the investigators - then your assumption is merely that. perhaps wait for the results of the investigation before being so quick to judge.

as someone who has driven all over the country extensively for my job(s) i have to say for some inexplicable reason there are sections of the m65 which seem completely blackout style dark compared to other motorways - i can't explain it.....it could be some optical illusion, but it is how it seems to me. but like your gut feel - this is just my opinion.

may everybody's thoughts be with the affected families at a very difficult time.

Score: -6

rudis_dad
12:45pm Mon 28 Jul 14

hasslem hasslem wrote…

Oldmanofthemountains wrote…

Loss of life in this manner is always tragic, particularly for those who are left behind to pick up the pieces. However, playing a sort of devil's advocate role and trying to remain objective,, let's consider one or two points:

(1) The two men who were killed lived locally and had been working in Skelmersdale. This suggests that they were well acquainted with the stretch of road.
(2) The road is straight, road conditions were dry at the time and, as far as I know, apart from it being dark, visibility was otherwise good.
(3) At 0215, there was unlikely to be much traffic.

Naturally, no firm conclusions to be reached yet, and road lights MAY have been useful, but my gut feeling is that at least one of the three drivers was doing something pretty idiotic for an accident like this to have been caused.

but it is only your "gut feeling" - i reality unless you are a witness at the scene or one of the investigators - then your assumption is merely that. perhaps wait for the results of the investigation before being so quick to judge.

as someone who has driven all over the country extensively for my job(s) i have to say for some inexplicable reason there are sections of the m65 which seem completely blackout style dark compared to other motorways - i can't explain it.....it could be some optical illusion, but it is how it seems to me. but like your gut feel - this is just my opinion.

may everybody's thoughts be with the affected families at a very difficult time.

I'd tend to agree with your theory about some unlit parts of the M65 appearing darker than other unlit motorways.

I think that it possibly comes from the fact that a lot of the unlit parts of the M65 pass through very rural areas in hill country where there is little ambient light - the stretch between junctions 2 and 3 and 3 and 4 in particular can be very dark. Compare this to say the M62 between Liverpool and Manchester - many sections are unlit but because of the urban or suburban nature of its route, coupled with the flat countryside, the ambient light levels will be higher.

However, this does not absolve anyone of driving according to the conditions - if you can't see properly, basic survival instinct should dictate that you slow down to a pace where your headlights illuminate an area/distance ahead that gives you time to react accordingly.

That said, an awful lot of people ignore what should be common sense - if you put your head in the lions mouth, you shouldn't complain when you get bitten. Combine that with the fact that many drivers are out on the roads with sub-standard or defective headlights and you've got a recipe for disaster.

[quote][p][bold]hasslem hasslem[/bold] wrote:
[quote][p][bold]Oldmanofthemountains[/bold] wrote:
Loss of life in this manner is always tragic, particularly for those who are left behind to pick up the pieces. However, playing a sort of devil's advocate role and trying to remain objective,, let's consider one or two points:
(1) The two men who were killed lived locally and had been working in Skelmersdale. This suggests that they were well acquainted with the stretch of road.
(2) The road is straight, road conditions were dry at the time and, as far as I know, apart from it being dark, visibility was otherwise good.
(3) At 0215, there was unlikely to be much traffic.
Naturally, no firm conclusions to be reached yet, and road lights MAY have been useful, but my gut feeling is that at least one of the three drivers was doing something pretty idiotic for an accident like this to have been caused.[/p][/quote]but it is only your "gut feeling" - i reality unless you are a witness at the scene or one of the investigators - then your assumption is merely that. perhaps wait for the results of the investigation before being so quick to judge.
as someone who has driven all over the country extensively for my job(s) i have to say for some inexplicable reason there are sections of the m65 which seem completely blackout style dark compared to other motorways - i can't explain it.....it could be some optical illusion, but it is how it seems to me. but like your gut feel - this is just my opinion.
may everybody's thoughts be with the affected families at a very difficult time.[/p][/quote]I'd tend to agree with your theory about some unlit parts of the M65 appearing darker than other unlit motorways.
I think that it possibly comes from the fact that a lot of the unlit parts of the M65 pass through very rural areas in hill country where there is little ambient light - the stretch between junctions 2 and 3 and 3 and 4 in particular can be very dark. Compare this to say the M62 between Liverpool and Manchester - many sections are unlit but because of the urban or suburban nature of its route, coupled with the flat countryside, the ambient light levels will be higher.
However, this does not absolve anyone of driving according to the conditions - if you can't see properly, basic survival instinct should dictate that you slow down to a pace where your headlights illuminate an area/distance ahead that gives you time to react accordingly.
That said, an awful lot of people ignore what should be common sense - if you put your head in the lions mouth, you shouldn't complain when you get bitten. Combine that with the fact that many drivers are out on the roads with sub-standard or defective headlights and you've got a recipe for disaster.rudis_dad

hasslem hasslem wrote…

Oldmanofthemountains wrote…

Loss of life in this manner is always tragic, particularly for those who are left behind to pick up the pieces. However, playing a sort of devil's advocate role and trying to remain objective,, let's consider one or two points:

(1) The two men who were killed lived locally and had been working in Skelmersdale. This suggests that they were well acquainted with the stretch of road.
(2) The road is straight, road conditions were dry at the time and, as far as I know, apart from it being dark, visibility was otherwise good.
(3) At 0215, there was unlikely to be much traffic.

Naturally, no firm conclusions to be reached yet, and road lights MAY have been useful, but my gut feeling is that at least one of the three drivers was doing something pretty idiotic for an accident like this to have been caused.

but it is only your "gut feeling" - i reality unless you are a witness at the scene or one of the investigators - then your assumption is merely that. perhaps wait for the results of the investigation before being so quick to judge.

as someone who has driven all over the country extensively for my job(s) i have to say for some inexplicable reason there are sections of the m65 which seem completely blackout style dark compared to other motorways - i can't explain it.....it could be some optical illusion, but it is how it seems to me. but like your gut feel - this is just my opinion.

may everybody's thoughts be with the affected families at a very difficult time.

I'd tend to agree with your theory about some unlit parts of the M65 appearing darker than other unlit motorways.

I think that it possibly comes from the fact that a lot of the unlit parts of the M65 pass through very rural areas in hill country where there is little ambient light - the stretch between junctions 2 and 3 and 3 and 4 in particular can be very dark. Compare this to say the M62 between Liverpool and Manchester - many sections are unlit but because of the urban or suburban nature of its route, coupled with the flat countryside, the ambient light levels will be higher.

However, this does not absolve anyone of driving according to the conditions - if you can't see properly, basic survival instinct should dictate that you slow down to a pace where your headlights illuminate an area/distance ahead that gives you time to react accordingly.

That said, an awful lot of people ignore what should be common sense - if you put your head in the lions mouth, you shouldn't complain when you get bitten. Combine that with the fact that many drivers are out on the roads with sub-standard or defective headlights and you've got a recipe for disaster.

Score: 17

yyy's1
12:55pm Mon 28 Jul 14

Cut backs on street lighting, police, fire service, roads, nurses, they don't send people to prison because of the cost but still give aid to India!
I read recently that the income from vat alone had topped the hundred billion pound mark that's on top of the disgusting amount of tax we pay on petrol, cigarettes and the like. Can someone tell me where all this money goes?
Stop the aid to India and light the motorways, simple.

Cut backs on street lighting, police, fire service, roads, nurses, they don't send people to prison because of the cost but still give aid to India!
I read recently that the income from vat alone had topped the hundred billion pound mark that's on top of the disgusting amount of tax we pay on petrol, cigarettes and the like. Can someone tell me where all this money goes?
Stop the aid to India and light the motorways, simple.yyy's1

Cut backs on street lighting, police, fire service, roads, nurses, they don't send people to prison because of the cost but still give aid to India!
I read recently that the income from vat alone had topped the hundred billion pound mark that's on top of the disgusting amount of tax we pay on petrol, cigarettes and the like. Can someone tell me where all this money goes?
Stop the aid to India and light the motorways, simple.

Score: 25

paperboy70
1:05pm Mon 28 Jul 14

It's terrible that these men have lost their lives, but lack of lights on the motorway can't be blamed In fact no conclusions can be reached for the cause of this accident. It could have been driver error, speed or a whole host of reasons. Millions are cars are driven at night perfectly safely on roads without lights and just because a road is lit it isn't going to prevent people driving irresponsibly or at high speed. Let's see what the police investigation concludes and then have a debate about whether the lights should be turned back on.

It's terrible that these men have lost their lives, but lack of lights on the motorway can't be blamed In fact no conclusions can be reached for the cause of this accident. It could have been driver error, speed or a whole host of reasons. Millions are cars are driven at night perfectly safely on roads without lights and just because a road is lit it isn't going to prevent people driving irresponsibly or at high speed. Let's see what the police investigation concludes and then have a debate about whether the lights should be turned back on.paperboy70

It's terrible that these men have lost their lives, but lack of lights on the motorway can't be blamed In fact no conclusions can be reached for the cause of this accident. It could have been driver error, speed or a whole host of reasons. Millions are cars are driven at night perfectly safely on roads without lights and just because a road is lit it isn't going to prevent people driving irresponsibly or at high speed. Let's see what the police investigation concludes and then have a debate about whether the lights should be turned back on.

Score: 14

sniper16
1:35pm Mon 28 Jul 14

The only problem with no lighting is hitting the cars that have crashed. Speed is the issue here not lighting. And if the men were lying on the hard shoulder it sounds like no seat belts as well. But it will all come out in the wash. Speed kills not darkness.

The only problem with no lighting is hitting the cars that have crashed. Speed is the issue here not lighting. And if the men were lying on the hard shoulder it sounds like no seat belts as well. But it will all come out in the wash. Speed kills not darkness.sniper16

The only problem with no lighting is hitting the cars that have crashed. Speed is the issue here not lighting. And if the men were lying on the hard shoulder it sounds like no seat belts as well. But it will all come out in the wash. Speed kills not darkness.

Score: 26

Gingermaniac
1:35pm Mon 28 Jul 14

superdad1 wrote…

peely wrote…

Doesn't, sound like a straight forward accident - sure all will be revealed in time !

Speeding comes to mind,

Sounds like no seat belts were used either :(

[quote][p][bold]superdad1[/bold] wrote:
[quote][p][bold]peely[/bold] wrote:
Doesn't, sound like a straight forward accident - sure all will be revealed in time ![/p][/quote]Speeding comes to mind,[/p][/quote]Sounds like no seat belts were used either :(Gingermaniac

superdad1 wrote…

peely wrote…

Doesn't, sound like a straight forward accident - sure all will be revealed in time !

Speeding comes to mind,

Sounds like no seat belts were used either :(

Score: 14

kateash
2:56pm Mon 28 Jul 14

If they were both in the road it sounds like they had no seat belts on !

If they were both in the road it sounds like they had no seat belts on !kateash

If they were both in the road it sounds like they had no seat belts on !

Score: 17

HarryBosch
2:59pm Mon 28 Jul 14

Gingermaniac wrote…

superdad1 wrote…

peely wrote…

Doesn't, sound like a straight forward accident - sure all will be revealed in time !

Speeding comes to mind,

Sounds like no seat belts were used either :(

Please don't speculate, it isn't helpful and will aggravate the trauma that the family is already going through. There are any number of scenarios that could be pertinent, including the possibility that these two guys may have already been out of their vehicle because of a puncture/breakdown. Wait for the results of the investigation.

[quote][p][bold]Gingermaniac[/bold] wrote:
[quote][p][bold]superdad1[/bold] wrote:
[quote][p][bold]peely[/bold] wrote:
Doesn't, sound like a straight forward accident - sure all will be revealed in time ![/p][/quote]Speeding comes to mind,[/p][/quote]Sounds like no seat belts were used either :([/p][/quote]Please don't speculate, it isn't helpful and will aggravate the trauma that the family is already going through. There are any number of scenarios that could be pertinent, including the possibility that these two guys may have already been out of their vehicle because of a puncture/breakdown. Wait for the results of the investigation.HarryBosch

Gingermaniac wrote…

superdad1 wrote…

peely wrote…

Doesn't, sound like a straight forward accident - sure all will be revealed in time !

Speeding comes to mind,

Sounds like no seat belts were used either :(

Please don't speculate, it isn't helpful and will aggravate the trauma that the family is already going through. There are any number of scenarios that could be pertinent, including the possibility that these two guys may have already been out of their vehicle because of a puncture/breakdown. Wait for the results of the investigation.

Score: 10

slants
3:15pm Mon 28 Jul 14

Smacx25 wrote…

RIP guys :(
Unlit motorway, so dangerous at night and all to save a few pounds

drive along this motorway 4 times a night at the same time and NOT once have i ever thought its too dark .Drink and speed will cause most of these accidents.

[quote][p][bold]Smacx25[/bold] wrote:
RIP guys :(
Unlit motorway, so dangerous at night and all to save a few pounds[/p][/quote]drive along this motorway 4 times a night at the same time and NOT once have i ever thought its too dark .Drink and speed will cause most of these accidents.slants

Smacx25 wrote…

RIP guys :(
Unlit motorway, so dangerous at night and all to save a few pounds

drive along this motorway 4 times a night at the same time and NOT once have i ever thought its too dark .Drink and speed will cause most of these accidents.

Score: 18

ELBEAN
4:10pm Mon 28 Jul 14

I hate driving under motorway lights unless its a big junction like near Preston; they can make you feel drowsy.

I hate driving under motorway lights unless its a big junction like near Preston; they can make you feel drowsy.ELBEAN

I hate driving under motorway lights unless its a big junction like near Preston; they can make you feel drowsy.

Score: 0

KaneSmith
4:26pm Mon 28 Jul 14

kateash wrote…

If they were both in the road it sounds like they had no seat belts on !

They where using seatbelts the officers told us that the belts had snapped.

[quote][p][bold]kateash[/bold] wrote:
If they were both in the road it sounds like they had no seat belts on ![/p][/quote]They where using seatbelts the officers told us that the belts had snapped.KaneSmith

kateash wrote…

If they were both in the road it sounds like they had no seat belts on !

They where using seatbelts the officers told us that the belts had snapped.

Score: 4

KaneSmith
4:20pm Mon 28 Jul 14

I was unable to get this added to the Article so i'll post it here.

Also to assure everyone in the comments, Maz was a safe driver, you never know, something could have dropped onto the road, it can happen, and with having the lights off, you wont see it unless your headlights shine on it, and by then it would be too late.

My Tribute:

Maz was a truely inspirational character, as soon as I arrived back in Skelmersdale in 2011, i met him when he was running the Concourse News Shop, over time our friendship was great and he offered me a Job at his shop for Work Experience to help out my CV as i had non existing customer service. So i worked in his shop for roughly six months. He then asked me and my friend Frazer Grant to work in his Takeaway shop in Sandy Lane Skelmersdale were we would gain experience and finally get a full time job out of it. I am gutted that he has gone, it feels that his business is unfinished as he was planning to move Mo's Pizza into the Concourse and turn it into a Cafe and Pizza house (a Franchise in a short story) so he is unable to do that now. I will miss him forever, he is a dear friend of mine, as much as a pain he could be, he was always there for me like a second father after my dad died last year.

I was unable to get this added to the Article so i'll post it here.
Also to assure everyone in the comments, Maz was a safe driver, you never know, something could have dropped onto the road, it can happen, and with having the lights off, you wont see it unless your headlights shine on it, and by then it would be too late.
My Tribute:
Maz was a truely inspirational character, as soon as I arrived back in Skelmersdale in 2011, i met him when he was running the Concourse News Shop, over time our friendship was great and he offered me a Job at his shop for Work Experience to help out my CV as i had non existing customer service. So i worked in his shop for roughly six months. He then asked me and my friend Frazer Grant to work in his Takeaway shop in Sandy Lane Skelmersdale were we would gain experience and finally get a full time job out of it. I am gutted that he has gone, it feels that his business is unfinished as he was planning to move Mo's Pizza into the Concourse and turn it into a Cafe and Pizza house (a Franchise in a short story) so he is unable to do that now. I will miss him forever, he is a dear friend of mine, as much as a pain he could be, he was always there for me like a second father after my dad died last year.KaneSmith

I was unable to get this added to the Article so i'll post it here.

Also to assure everyone in the comments, Maz was a safe driver, you never know, something could have dropped onto the road, it can happen, and with having the lights off, you wont see it unless your headlights shine on it, and by then it would be too late.

My Tribute:

Maz was a truely inspirational character, as soon as I arrived back in Skelmersdale in 2011, i met him when he was running the Concourse News Shop, over time our friendship was great and he offered me a Job at his shop for Work Experience to help out my CV as i had non existing customer service. So i worked in his shop for roughly six months. He then asked me and my friend Frazer Grant to work in his Takeaway shop in Sandy Lane Skelmersdale were we would gain experience and finally get a full time job out of it. I am gutted that he has gone, it feels that his business is unfinished as he was planning to move Mo's Pizza into the Concourse and turn it into a Cafe and Pizza house (a Franchise in a short story) so he is unable to do that now. I will miss him forever, he is a dear friend of mine, as much as a pain he could be, he was always there for me like a second father after my dad died last year.

Score: 26

BRFC195
7:15pm Mon 28 Jul 14

Condolences to both families such a tragic loss,looks like where going to have to find this ourself through fundraising maybe light up a life just like we have to do everything else ourselfs even taking our own bins to the tip ect as the council are to busy wasting money on monuments to distract us at roundabouts and tarmacing bus lanes !! yet cannot seem to find the funds for basic road safety ...it would be interesting to know how many deaths there has been on the lit bit of the M65 ,as it does not seem long a go someone else lost there life in such tragic circumstances

Condolences to both families such a tragic loss,looks like where going to have to find this ourself through fundraising maybe light up a life just like we have to do everything else ourselfs even taking our own bins to the tip ect as the council are to busy wasting money on monuments to distract us at roundabouts and tarmacing bus lanes !! yet cannot seem to find the funds for basic road safety ...it would be interesting to know how many deaths there has been on the lit bit of the M65 ,as it does not seem long a go someone else lost there life in such tragic circumstancesBRFC195

Condolences to both families such a tragic loss,looks like where going to have to find this ourself through fundraising maybe light up a life just like we have to do everything else ourselfs even taking our own bins to the tip ect as the council are to busy wasting money on monuments to distract us at roundabouts and tarmacing bus lanes !! yet cannot seem to find the funds for basic road safety ...it would be interesting to know how many deaths there has been on the lit bit of the M65 ,as it does not seem long a go someone else lost there life in such tragic circumstances

Score: 2

Oldmanofthemountains
7:50pm Mon 28 Jul 14

BRFC195 wrote…

Condolences to both families such a tragic loss,looks like where going to have to find this ourself through fundraising maybe light up a life just like we have to do everything else ourselfs even taking our own bins to the tip ect as the council are to busy wasting money on monuments to distract us at roundabouts and tarmacing bus lanes !! yet cannot seem to find the funds for basic road safety ...it would be interesting to know how many deaths there has been on the lit bit of the M65 ,as it does not seem long a go someone else lost there life in such tragic circumstances

Agreed with the condolences, but you seem to be assuming that it was the lack of lighting that resulted in this "accident, Road safety is not only the provision of adequate safeguards, lighting, signage,, etc., it also depends on individual drivers behaving sensibly and rationally.

[quote][p][bold]BRFC195[/bold] wrote:
Condolences to both families such a tragic loss,looks like where going to have to find this ourself through fundraising maybe light up a life just like we have to do everything else ourselfs even taking our own bins to the tip ect as the council are to busy wasting money on monuments to distract us at roundabouts and tarmacing bus lanes !! yet cannot seem to find the funds for basic road safety ...it would be interesting to know how many deaths there has been on the lit bit of the M65 ,as it does not seem long a go someone else lost there life in such tragic circumstances[/p][/quote]Agreed with the condolences, but you seem to be assuming that it was the lack of lighting that resulted in this "accident, Road safety is not only the provision of adequate safeguards, lighting, signage,, etc., it also depends on individual drivers behaving sensibly and rationally.Oldmanofthemountains

BRFC195 wrote…

Condolences to both families such a tragic loss,looks like where going to have to find this ourself through fundraising maybe light up a life just like we have to do everything else ourselfs even taking our own bins to the tip ect as the council are to busy wasting money on monuments to distract us at roundabouts and tarmacing bus lanes !! yet cannot seem to find the funds for basic road safety ...it would be interesting to know how many deaths there has been on the lit bit of the M65 ,as it does not seem long a go someone else lost there life in such tragic circumstances

Agreed with the condolences, but you seem to be assuming that it was the lack of lighting that resulted in this "accident, Road safety is not only the provision of adequate safeguards, lighting, signage,, etc., it also depends on individual drivers behaving sensibly and rationally.

Score: 8

the beaver
9:24pm Mon 28 Jul 14

celerysue25 wrote…

I was first on the scene just moments after it had happened. I was the one who rang 999. 2 overturned cars in the middle of both lanes. 2 guys dead to the left of my car. The road was so dark I only stopped 10 feet from the cars in the middle of the lane. Debris everywhere skid marka for hundreds of meters. I was there til 6am this morning as they wouldnt let me move my car til photos and all evidence was documented. I have never been so horrified in my life.
Nobody seemed to know what happened and ita not like you can ask everyone involved either to get the full story.
Im telling you now if I hadnt had my brand new car and I had my old one I would have been in the smash too. I didnt even see the blue car til I got out my car as a guy was emerging from the silver one.
Nobody knew eachother so a pre planned race doesnt seem likely but I wont rule it out.

The police and ambulance and fire crew did a good job of clearing the hundreds of cars back down the motorway to get people on their way. So well done to them.

Also everyone stuck was looking after eachother. Offering drinks and even food to those people that had to open/close their fasts.

There were no working street lights and the only car that had hazards on or lights was mine when i arrived. It was very difficult to see what was infront of me. But lets just wait for the police to do their investigation before making any more assumptions.

So you was driving a car with defective brakes/tyres before you replaced it? Hope you informed the new owner before they drove it.

[quote][p][bold]celerysue25[/bold] wrote:
I was first on the scene just moments after it had happened. I was the one who rang 999. 2 overturned cars in the middle of both lanes. 2 guys dead to the left of my car. The road was so dark I only stopped 10 feet from the cars in the middle of the lane. Debris everywhere skid marka for hundreds of meters. I was there til 6am this morning as they wouldnt let me move my car til photos and all evidence was documented. I have never been so horrified in my life.
Nobody seemed to know what happened and ita not like you can ask everyone involved either to get the full story.
Im telling you now if I hadnt had my brand new car and I had my old one I would have been in the smash too. I didnt even see the blue car til I got out my car as a guy was emerging from the silver one.
Nobody knew eachother so a pre planned race doesnt seem likely but I wont rule it out.
The police and ambulance and fire crew did a good job of clearing the hundreds of cars back down the motorway to get people on their way. So well done to them.
Also everyone stuck was looking after eachother. Offering drinks and even food to those people that had to open/close their fasts.
There were no working street lights and the only car that had hazards on or lights was mine when i arrived. It was very difficult to see what was infront of me. But lets just wait for the police to do their investigation before making any more assumptions.[/p][/quote]So you was driving a car with defective brakes/tyres before you replaced it? Hope you informed the new owner before they drove it.the beaver

celerysue25 wrote…

I was first on the scene just moments after it had happened. I was the one who rang 999. 2 overturned cars in the middle of both lanes. 2 guys dead to the left of my car. The road was so dark I only stopped 10 feet from the cars in the middle of the lane. Debris everywhere skid marka for hundreds of meters. I was there til 6am this morning as they wouldnt let me move my car til photos and all evidence was documented. I have never been so horrified in my life.
Nobody seemed to know what happened and ita not like you can ask everyone involved either to get the full story.
Im telling you now if I hadnt had my brand new car and I had my old one I would have been in the smash too. I didnt even see the blue car til I got out my car as a guy was emerging from the silver one.
Nobody knew eachother so a pre planned race doesnt seem likely but I wont rule it out.

The police and ambulance and fire crew did a good job of clearing the hundreds of cars back down the motorway to get people on their way. So well done to them.

Also everyone stuck was looking after eachother. Offering drinks and even food to those people that had to open/close their fasts.

There were no working street lights and the only car that had hazards on or lights was mine when i arrived. It was very difficult to see what was infront of me. But lets just wait for the police to do their investigation before making any more assumptions.

So you was driving a car with defective brakes/tyres before you replaced it? Hope you informed the new owner before they drove it.

Score: -9

yyy's1
9:37pm Mon 28 Jul 14

Chammy asks how can you put money before lives? easy, become a politician.

Chammy asks how can you put money before lives? easy, become a politician.yyy's1

Chammy asks how can you put money before lives? easy, become a politician.

Score: 7

slants
11:20pm Mon 28 Jul 14

KaneSmith wrote…

I was unable to get this added to the Article so i'll post it here.

Also to assure everyone in the comments, Maz was a safe driver, you never know, something could have dropped onto the road, it can happen, and with having the lights off, you wont see it unless your headlights shine on it, and by then it would be too late.

My Tribute:

Maz was a truely inspirational character, as soon as I arrived back in Skelmersdale in 2011, i met him when he was running the Concourse News Shop, over time our friendship was great and he offered me a Job at his shop for Work Experience to help out my CV as i had non existing customer service. So i worked in his shop for roughly six months. He then asked me and my friend Frazer Grant to work in his Takeaway shop in Sandy Lane Skelmersdale were we would gain experience and finally get a full time job out of it. I am gutted that he has gone, it feels that his business is unfinished as he was planning to move Mo's Pizza into the Concourse and turn it into a Cafe and Pizza house (a Franchise in a short story) so he is unable to do that now. I will miss him forever, he is a dear friend of mine, as much as a pain he could be, he was always there for me like a second father after my dad died last year.

whats this ??this is your life ?????

[quote][p][bold]KaneSmith[/bold] wrote:
I was unable to get this added to the Article so i'll post it here.
Also to assure everyone in the comments, Maz was a safe driver, you never know, something could have dropped onto the road, it can happen, and with having the lights off, you wont see it unless your headlights shine on it, and by then it would be too late.
My Tribute:
Maz was a truely inspirational character, as soon as I arrived back in Skelmersdale in 2011, i met him when he was running the Concourse News Shop, over time our friendship was great and he offered me a Job at his shop for Work Experience to help out my CV as i had non existing customer service. So i worked in his shop for roughly six months. He then asked me and my friend Frazer Grant to work in his Takeaway shop in Sandy Lane Skelmersdale were we would gain experience and finally get a full time job out of it. I am gutted that he has gone, it feels that his business is unfinished as he was planning to move Mo's Pizza into the Concourse and turn it into a Cafe and Pizza house (a Franchise in a short story) so he is unable to do that now. I will miss him forever, he is a dear friend of mine, as much as a pain he could be, he was always there for me like a second father after my dad died last year.[/p][/quote]whats this ??this is your life ?????slants

KaneSmith wrote…

I was unable to get this added to the Article so i'll post it here.

Also to assure everyone in the comments, Maz was a safe driver, you never know, something could have dropped onto the road, it can happen, and with having the lights off, you wont see it unless your headlights shine on it, and by then it would be too late.

My Tribute:

Maz was a truely inspirational character, as soon as I arrived back in Skelmersdale in 2011, i met him when he was running the Concourse News Shop, over time our friendship was great and he offered me a Job at his shop for Work Experience to help out my CV as i had non existing customer service. So i worked in his shop for roughly six months. He then asked me and my friend Frazer Grant to work in his Takeaway shop in Sandy Lane Skelmersdale were we would gain experience and finally get a full time job out of it. I am gutted that he has gone, it feels that his business is unfinished as he was planning to move Mo's Pizza into the Concourse and turn it into a Cafe and Pizza house (a Franchise in a short story) so he is unable to do that now. I will miss him forever, he is a dear friend of mine, as much as a pain he could be, he was always there for me like a second father after my dad died last year.

whats this ??this is your life ?????

Score: -16

Darwen Malc
11:54pm Mon 28 Jul 14

This is a tragic accident, whatever the cause, and my condolences go to all those affected.

However, that aside, I must make a comment about lighting on our roads and the 'press' classification of roads. There are no (as generally reported) dangerous roads. Whether lit, unlit, bendy, hilly, narrow or whatever, NO ROAD IS DANGEROUS!

That may come as a shock to some, but as long as you drive to the conditions, you should come to no harm (unless some wally coming the other way, or speeding up 'your back end', is doing otherwise).

Rule of thumb, always drive whilst assuming every other road user is a lunatic. That way you should generally keep out of harms way.

That's what gets me about these mobile 'speed cameras' (or money making racketeers). They sit on the A666 between Darwen and Bolton occasionally because it is classed as a dangerous road - yet - most of the accidents (generally through drink and/or drugs) happen at night. Furthermore it is not lit, but that still doesn't stop idiots using it.
So why do they do their patrols during the day? It is NOT a DANGEROUS road! I drive along it very regular and I have somehow managed to survive.

So can we please stop calling for the M65, or any other roads for that matter, to be lit. My plea is not because I support the green lobby. All that supposed saving of carbon emissions is hogwash. I just don't see the need to light up every road, in every town, village, or rural spot.

This is a tragic accident, whatever the cause, and my condolences go to all those affected.
However, that aside, I must make a comment about lighting on our roads and the 'press' classification of roads. There are no (as generally reported) dangerous roads. Whether lit, unlit, bendy, hilly, narrow or whatever, NO ROAD IS DANGEROUS!
That may come as a shock to some, but as long as you drive to the conditions, you should come to no harm (unless some wally coming the other way, or speeding up 'your back end', is doing otherwise).
Rule of thumb, always drive whilst assuming every other road user is a lunatic. That way you should generally keep out of harms way.
That's what gets me about these mobile 'speed cameras' (or money making racketeers). They sit on the A666 between Darwen and Bolton occasionally because it is classed as a dangerous road - yet - most of the accidents (generally through drink and/or drugs) happen at night. Furthermore it is not lit, but that still doesn't stop idiots using it.
So why do they do their patrols during the day? It is NOT a DANGEROUS road! I drive along it very regular and I have somehow managed to survive.
So can we please stop calling for the M65, or any other roads for that matter, to be lit. My plea is not because I support the green lobby. All that supposed saving of carbon emissions is hogwash. I just don't see the need to light up every road, in every town, village, or rural spot.Darwen Malc

This is a tragic accident, whatever the cause, and my condolences go to all those affected.

However, that aside, I must make a comment about lighting on our roads and the 'press' classification of roads. There are no (as generally reported) dangerous roads. Whether lit, unlit, bendy, hilly, narrow or whatever, NO ROAD IS DANGEROUS!

That may come as a shock to some, but as long as you drive to the conditions, you should come to no harm (unless some wally coming the other way, or speeding up 'your back end', is doing otherwise).

Rule of thumb, always drive whilst assuming every other road user is a lunatic. That way you should generally keep out of harms way.

That's what gets me about these mobile 'speed cameras' (or money making racketeers). They sit on the A666 between Darwen and Bolton occasionally because it is classed as a dangerous road - yet - most of the accidents (generally through drink and/or drugs) happen at night. Furthermore it is not lit, but that still doesn't stop idiots using it.
So why do they do their patrols during the day? It is NOT a DANGEROUS road! I drive along it very regular and I have somehow managed to survive.

So can we please stop calling for the M65, or any other roads for that matter, to be lit. My plea is not because I support the green lobby. All that supposed saving of carbon emissions is hogwash. I just don't see the need to light up every road, in every town, village, or rural spot.

Score: 12

Excluded again
12:02am Tue 29 Jul 14

One possible cause is the sheer number of roadworks and road closures at night in the area.

I'd not fully appreciated this until tonight. Basically it has taken me 15 minutes longer to drive home at night from working near Congleton than it took to drive there this afternoon. 15 extra minutes late at night when I've been working. So I'm tired. So that is 15 extra minutes having to drive when I am tired and having to take less familiar alternative routes in the dark.

If the Councils, utilities and Highways Agency are going to unco-ordinate so much that tired people are going to be forced to drive for longer on unfamiliar roads late at night, this might well lead to more accidents.

One possible cause is the sheer number of roadworks and road closures at night in the area.
I'd not fully appreciated this until tonight. Basically it has taken me 15 minutes longer to drive home at night from working near Congleton than it took to drive there this afternoon. 15 extra minutes late at night when I've been working. So I'm tired. So that is 15 extra minutes having to drive when I am tired and having to take less familiar alternative routes in the dark.
If the Councils, utilities and Highways Agency are going to unco-ordinate so much that tired people are going to be forced to drive for longer on unfamiliar roads late at night, this might well lead to more accidents.Excluded again

One possible cause is the sheer number of roadworks and road closures at night in the area.

I'd not fully appreciated this until tonight. Basically it has taken me 15 minutes longer to drive home at night from working near Congleton than it took to drive there this afternoon. 15 extra minutes late at night when I've been working. So I'm tired. So that is 15 extra minutes having to drive when I am tired and having to take less familiar alternative routes in the dark.

If the Councils, utilities and Highways Agency are going to unco-ordinate so much that tired people are going to be forced to drive for longer on unfamiliar roads late at night, this might well lead to more accidents.

Score: 1

RDA Citizen
12:13am Tue 29 Jul 14

I drive this section of motorway regularly at night and very early morning due to shift work. I drive to consider fuel and safety. There are times when there is not much on the road and maybe my 65mph becomes boring; the fact that I travel the same section over and over means my senses are reduced because my brain has been trained that not much Is likely to happen on a open wide stretch of road with not much on it! 'day or night'. So, in this state there has been times when I have not seen a rabbit or fox till the last minute AND debris in the road to boot, but what I will say is these occurrences are rare and only seem to be in the dark areas of our motorways. The new LED lighting on the bend at the M55 is great. Please apply it to the M65! A long term savings plan could well be better that just leaving large sections of 'relatively fast' road unlit. I DO NOT jump to conclusions about the accident but I would like the inquest to include possible prevention of future incidents and action to be taken.

I drive this section of motorway regularly at night and very early morning due to shift work. I drive to consider fuel and safety. There are times when there is not much on the road and maybe my 65mph becomes boring; the fact that I travel the same section over and over means my senses are reduced because my brain has been trained that not much Is likely to happen on a open wide stretch of road with not much on it! 'day or night'. So, in this state there has been times when I have not seen a rabbit or fox till the last minute AND debris in the road to boot, but what I will say is these occurrences are rare and only seem to be in the dark areas of our motorways. The new LED lighting on the bend at the M55 is great. Please apply it to the M65! A long term savings plan could well be better that just leaving large sections of 'relatively fast' road unlit. I DO NOT jump to conclusions about the accident but I would like the inquest to include possible prevention of future incidents and action to be taken.RDA Citizen

I drive this section of motorway regularly at night and very early morning due to shift work. I drive to consider fuel and safety. There are times when there is not much on the road and maybe my 65mph becomes boring; the fact that I travel the same section over and over means my senses are reduced because my brain has been trained that not much Is likely to happen on a open wide stretch of road with not much on it! 'day or night'. So, in this state there has been times when I have not seen a rabbit or fox till the last minute AND debris in the road to boot, but what I will say is these occurrences are rare and only seem to be in the dark areas of our motorways. The new LED lighting on the bend at the M55 is great. Please apply it to the M65! A long term savings plan could well be better that just leaving large sections of 'relatively fast' road unlit. I DO NOT jump to conclusions about the accident but I would like the inquest to include possible prevention of future incidents and action to be taken.

Score: 4

RDA Citizen
12:27am Tue 29 Jul 14

Darwen Malc wrote…

This is a tragic accident, whatever the cause, and my condolences go to all those affected.

However, that aside, I must make a comment about lighting on our roads and the 'press' classification of roads. There are no (as generally reported) dangerous roads. Whether lit, unlit, bendy, hilly, narrow or whatever, NO ROAD IS DANGEROUS!

That may come as a shock to some, but as long as you drive to the conditions, you should come to no harm (unless some wally coming the other way, or speeding up 'your back end', is doing otherwise).

Rule of thumb, always drive whilst assuming every other road user is a lunatic. That way you should generally keep out of harms way.

That's what gets me about these mobile 'speed cameras' (or money making racketeers). They sit on the A666 between Darwen and Bolton occasionally because it is classed as a dangerous road - yet - most of the accidents (generally through drink and/or drugs) happen at night. Furthermore it is not lit, but that still doesn't stop idiots using it.
So why do they do their patrols during the day? It is NOT a DANGEROUS road! I drive along it very regular and I have somehow managed to survive.

So can we please stop calling for the M65, or any other roads for that matter, to be lit. My plea is not because I support the green lobby. All that supposed saving of carbon emissions is hogwash. I just don't see the need to light up every road, in every town, village, or rural spot.

On a dark section of country lane I maybe doing 30mpg that feels like 70mph. On dark section of motorway I may be doing 65mpg that feels like 30mph. I am sure you can understand the stopping distance difference but do you realise the difference that concentration levels make to this abnormality?

[quote][p][bold]Darwen Malc[/bold] wrote:
This is a tragic accident, whatever the cause, and my condolences go to all those affected.
However, that aside, I must make a comment about lighting on our roads and the 'press' classification of roads. There are no (as generally reported) dangerous roads. Whether lit, unlit, bendy, hilly, narrow or whatever, NO ROAD IS DANGEROUS!
That may come as a shock to some, but as long as you drive to the conditions, you should come to no harm (unless some wally coming the other way, or speeding up 'your back end', is doing otherwise).
Rule of thumb, always drive whilst assuming every other road user is a lunatic. That way you should generally keep out of harms way.
That's what gets me about these mobile 'speed cameras' (or money making racketeers). They sit on the A666 between Darwen and Bolton occasionally because it is classed as a dangerous road - yet - most of the accidents (generally through drink and/or drugs) happen at night. Furthermore it is not lit, but that still doesn't stop idiots using it.
So why do they do their patrols during the day? It is NOT a DANGEROUS road! I drive along it very regular and I have somehow managed to survive.
So can we please stop calling for the M65, or any other roads for that matter, to be lit. My plea is not because I support the green lobby. All that supposed saving of carbon emissions is hogwash. I just don't see the need to light up every road, in every town, village, or rural spot.[/p][/quote]On a dark section of country lane I maybe doing 30mpg that feels like 70mph. On dark section of motorway I may be doing 65mpg that feels like 30mph. I am sure you can understand the stopping distance difference but do you realise the difference that concentration levels make to this abnormality?RDA Citizen

Darwen Malc wrote…

This is a tragic accident, whatever the cause, and my condolences go to all those affected.

However, that aside, I must make a comment about lighting on our roads and the 'press' classification of roads. There are no (as generally reported) dangerous roads. Whether lit, unlit, bendy, hilly, narrow or whatever, NO ROAD IS DANGEROUS!

That may come as a shock to some, but as long as you drive to the conditions, you should come to no harm (unless some wally coming the other way, or speeding up 'your back end', is doing otherwise).

Rule of thumb, always drive whilst assuming every other road user is a lunatic. That way you should generally keep out of harms way.

That's what gets me about these mobile 'speed cameras' (or money making racketeers). They sit on the A666 between Darwen and Bolton occasionally because it is classed as a dangerous road - yet - most of the accidents (generally through drink and/or drugs) happen at night. Furthermore it is not lit, but that still doesn't stop idiots using it.
So why do they do their patrols during the day? It is NOT a DANGEROUS road! I drive along it very regular and I have somehow managed to survive.

So can we please stop calling for the M65, or any other roads for that matter, to be lit. My plea is not because I support the green lobby. All that supposed saving of carbon emissions is hogwash. I just don't see the need to light up every road, in every town, village, or rural spot.

On a dark section of country lane I maybe doing 30mpg that feels like 70mph. On dark section of motorway I may be doing 65mpg that feels like 30mph. I am sure you can understand the stopping distance difference but do you realise the difference that concentration levels make to this abnormality?

Score: 2

RDA Citizen
12:32am Tue 29 Jul 14

the beaver wrote…

celerysue25 wrote…

I was first on the scene just moments after it had happened. I was the one who rang 999. 2 overturned cars in the middle of both lanes. 2 guys dead to the left of my car. The road was so dark I only stopped 10 feet from the cars in the middle of the lane. Debris everywhere skid marka for hundreds of meters. I was there til 6am this morning as they wouldnt let me move my car til photos and all evidence was documented. I have never been so horrified in my life.
Nobody seemed to know what happened and ita not like you can ask everyone involved either to get the full story.
Im telling you now if I hadnt had my brand new car and I had my old one I would have been in the smash too. I didnt even see the blue car til I got out my car as a guy was emerging from the silver one.
Nobody knew eachother so a pre planned race doesnt seem likely but I wont rule it out.

The police and ambulance and fire crew did a good job of clearing the hundreds of cars back down the motorway to get people on their way. So well done to them.

Also everyone stuck was looking after eachother. Offering drinks and even food to those people that had to open/close their fasts.

There were no working street lights and the only car that had hazards on or lights was mine when i arrived. It was very difficult to see what was infront of me. But lets just wait for the police to do their investigation before making any more assumptions.

So you was driving a car with defective brakes/tyres before you replaced it? Hope you informed the new owner before they drove it.

Stop making assumptions; it could have been a 1977 Morris minor which had virtually no brakes from new.

[quote][p][bold]the beaver[/bold] wrote:
[quote][p][bold]celerysue25[/bold] wrote:
I was first on the scene just moments after it had happened. I was the one who rang 999. 2 overturned cars in the middle of both lanes. 2 guys dead to the left of my car. The road was so dark I only stopped 10 feet from the cars in the middle of the lane. Debris everywhere skid marka for hundreds of meters. I was there til 6am this morning as they wouldnt let me move my car til photos and all evidence was documented. I have never been so horrified in my life.
Nobody seemed to know what happened and ita not like you can ask everyone involved either to get the full story.
Im telling you now if I hadnt had my brand new car and I had my old one I would have been in the smash too. I didnt even see the blue car til I got out my car as a guy was emerging from the silver one.
Nobody knew eachother so a pre planned race doesnt seem likely but I wont rule it out.
The police and ambulance and fire crew did a good job of clearing the hundreds of cars back down the motorway to get people on their way. So well done to them.
Also everyone stuck was looking after eachother. Offering drinks and even food to those people that had to open/close their fasts.
There were no working street lights and the only car that had hazards on or lights was mine when i arrived. It was very difficult to see what was infront of me. But lets just wait for the police to do their investigation before making any more assumptions.[/p][/quote]So you was driving a car with defective brakes/tyres before you replaced it? Hope you informed the new owner before they drove it.[/p][/quote]Stop making assumptions; it could have been a 1977 Morris minor which had virtually no brakes from new.RDA Citizen

the beaver wrote…

celerysue25 wrote…

I was first on the scene just moments after it had happened. I was the one who rang 999. 2 overturned cars in the middle of both lanes. 2 guys dead to the left of my car. The road was so dark I only stopped 10 feet from the cars in the middle of the lane. Debris everywhere skid marka for hundreds of meters. I was there til 6am this morning as they wouldnt let me move my car til photos and all evidence was documented. I have never been so horrified in my life.
Nobody seemed to know what happened and ita not like you can ask everyone involved either to get the full story.
Im telling you now if I hadnt had my brand new car and I had my old one I would have been in the smash too. I didnt even see the blue car til I got out my car as a guy was emerging from the silver one.
Nobody knew eachother so a pre planned race doesnt seem likely but I wont rule it out.

The police and ambulance and fire crew did a good job of clearing the hundreds of cars back down the motorway to get people on their way. So well done to them.

Also everyone stuck was looking after eachother. Offering drinks and even food to those people that had to open/close their fasts.

There were no working street lights and the only car that had hazards on or lights was mine when i arrived. It was very difficult to see what was infront of me. But lets just wait for the police to do their investigation before making any more assumptions.

So you was driving a car with defective brakes/tyres before you replaced it? Hope you informed the new owner before they drove it.

Stop making assumptions; it could have been a 1977 Morris minor which had virtually no brakes from new.

Score: -3

celerysue25
12:44am Tue 29 Jul 14

RDA Citizen wrote…

the beaver wrote…

celerysue25 wrote…

I was first on the scene just moments after it had happened. I was the one who rang 999. 2 overturned cars in the middle of both lanes. 2 guys dead to the left of my car. The road was so dark I only stopped 10 feet from the cars in the middle of the lane. Debris everywhere skid marka for hundreds of meters. I was there til 6am this morning as they wouldnt let me move my car til photos and all evidence was documented. I have never been so horrified in my life.
Nobody seemed to know what happened and ita not like you can ask everyone involved either to get the full story.
Im telling you now if I hadnt had my brand new car and I had my old one I would have been in the smash too. I didnt even see the blue car til I got out my car as a guy was emerging from the silver one.
Nobody knew eachother so a pre planned race doesnt seem likely but I wont rule it out.

The police and ambulance and fire crew did a good job of clearing the hundreds of cars back down the motorway to get people on their way. So well done to them.

Also everyone stuck was looking after eachother. Offering drinks and even food to those people that had to open/close their fasts.

There were no working street lights and the only car that had hazards on or lights was mine when i arrived. It was very difficult to see what was infront of me. But lets just wait for the police to do their investigation before making any more assumptions.

So you was driving a car with defective brakes/tyres before you replaced it? Hope you informed the new owner before they drove it.

Stop making assumptions; it could have been a 1977 Morris minor which had virtually no brakes from new.

thanks very much.

I actually had a 53 plate fiesta with brakes that were fine and tyres that were also fine. But an 11 year old car is not guna stop in the distance my 3 week old fiesta did!!

[quote][p][bold]RDA Citizen[/bold] wrote:
[quote][p][bold]the beaver[/bold] wrote:
[quote][p][bold]celerysue25[/bold] wrote:
I was first on the scene just moments after it had happened. I was the one who rang 999. 2 overturned cars in the middle of both lanes. 2 guys dead to the left of my car. The road was so dark I only stopped 10 feet from the cars in the middle of the lane. Debris everywhere skid marka for hundreds of meters. I was there til 6am this morning as they wouldnt let me move my car til photos and all evidence was documented. I have never been so horrified in my life.
Nobody seemed to know what happened and ita not like you can ask everyone involved either to get the full story.
Im telling you now if I hadnt had my brand new car and I had my old one I would have been in the smash too. I didnt even see the blue car til I got out my car as a guy was emerging from the silver one.
Nobody knew eachother so a pre planned race doesnt seem likely but I wont rule it out.
The police and ambulance and fire crew did a good job of clearing the hundreds of cars back down the motorway to get people on their way. So well done to them.
Also everyone stuck was looking after eachother. Offering drinks and even food to those people that had to open/close their fasts.
There were no working street lights and the only car that had hazards on or lights was mine when i arrived. It was very difficult to see what was infront of me. But lets just wait for the police to do their investigation before making any more assumptions.[/p][/quote]So you was driving a car with defective brakes/tyres before you replaced it? Hope you informed the new owner before they drove it.[/p][/quote]Stop making assumptions; it could have been a 1977 Morris minor which had virtually no brakes from new.[/p][/quote]thanks very much.
I actually had a 53 plate fiesta with brakes that were fine and tyres that were also fine. But an 11 year old car is not guna stop in the distance my 3 week old fiesta did!!celerysue25

RDA Citizen wrote…

the beaver wrote…

celerysue25 wrote…

I was first on the scene just moments after it had happened. I was the one who rang 999. 2 overturned cars in the middle of both lanes. 2 guys dead to the left of my car. The road was so dark I only stopped 10 feet from the cars in the middle of the lane. Debris everywhere skid marka for hundreds of meters. I was there til 6am this morning as they wouldnt let me move my car til photos and all evidence was documented. I have never been so horrified in my life.
Nobody seemed to know what happened and ita not like you can ask everyone involved either to get the full story.
Im telling you now if I hadnt had my brand new car and I had my old one I would have been in the smash too. I didnt even see the blue car til I got out my car as a guy was emerging from the silver one.
Nobody knew eachother so a pre planned race doesnt seem likely but I wont rule it out.

The police and ambulance and fire crew did a good job of clearing the hundreds of cars back down the motorway to get people on their way. So well done to them.

Also everyone stuck was looking after eachother. Offering drinks and even food to those people that had to open/close their fasts.

There were no working street lights and the only car that had hazards on or lights was mine when i arrived. It was very difficult to see what was infront of me. But lets just wait for the police to do their investigation before making any more assumptions.

So you was driving a car with defective brakes/tyres before you replaced it? Hope you informed the new owner before they drove it.

Stop making assumptions; it could have been a 1977 Morris minor which had virtually no brakes from new.

thanks very much.

I actually had a 53 plate fiesta with brakes that were fine and tyres that were also fine. But an 11 year old car is not guna stop in the distance my 3 week old fiesta did!!

Score: 2

mys
1:18am Tue 29 Jul 14

Another tragedy and all people can do is presume what happend,let the authority's do there job eh,RIP guys and condolences to there family's x

Another tragedy and all people can do is presume what happend,let the authority's do there job eh,RIP guys and condolences to there family's xmys

Another tragedy and all people can do is presume what happend,let the authority's do there job eh,RIP guys and condolences to there family's x

Score: 5

johndarwen
9:33am Tue 29 Jul 14

Condolences to all families. This was an accident, even if the motorway had lights they still will crash. Most of the country's motorway do not have lights on them, just look past Preston M6 going to Scotland, You only get lights near to the next junction then no more lights. How do all these people that work nights not crash, cause of the lighting situation?
Stop this media propaganda about no lighting. YOU must drive to the road conditions not what you think your car can do.

Condolences to all families. This was an accident, even if the motorway had lights they still will crash. Most of the country's motorway do not have lights on them, just look past Preston M6 going to Scotland, You only get lights near to the next junction then no more lights. How do all these people that work nights not crash, cause of the lighting situation?
Stop this media propaganda about no lighting. YOU must drive to the road conditions not what you think your car can do.johndarwen

Condolences to all families. This was an accident, even if the motorway had lights they still will crash. Most of the country's motorway do not have lights on them, just look past Preston M6 going to Scotland, You only get lights near to the next junction then no more lights. How do all these people that work nights not crash, cause of the lighting situation?
Stop this media propaganda about no lighting. YOU must drive to the road conditions not what you think your car can do.

Score: 6

Dancer2
9:44am Tue 29 Jul 14

Condolences to the families involved but I cannot help wondering if fasting for Ramadam helped to cause the accident. It must have been very difficult this year with the long days and very hot weather. To work with food also.

Condolences to the families involved but I cannot help wondering if fasting for Ramadam helped to cause the accident. It must have been very difficult this year with the long days and very hot weather. To work with food also.Dancer2

Condolences to the families involved but I cannot help wondering if fasting for Ramadam helped to cause the accident. It must have been very difficult this year with the long days and very hot weather. To work with food also.

Score: -3

Panther33
12:30pm Tue 29 Jul 14

Excluded again wrote…

One possible cause is the sheer number of roadworks and road closures at night in the area.

I'd not fully appreciated this until tonight. Basically it has taken me 15 minutes longer to drive home at night from working near Congleton than it took to drive there this afternoon. 15 extra minutes late at night when I've been working. So I'm tired. So that is 15 extra minutes having to drive when I am tired and having to take less familiar alternative routes in the dark.

If the Councils, utilities and Highways Agency are going to unco-ordinate so much that tired people are going to be forced to drive for longer on unfamiliar roads late at night, this might well lead to more accidents.

So your saying that you are a danger on the road then due to being tired, simple if your tired pull over and have a rest, as the meerkats say SIMPLEs.

[quote][p][bold]Excluded again[/bold] wrote:
One possible cause is the sheer number of roadworks and road closures at night in the area.
I'd not fully appreciated this until tonight. Basically it has taken me 15 minutes longer to drive home at night from working near Congleton than it took to drive there this afternoon. 15 extra minutes late at night when I've been working. So I'm tired. So that is 15 extra minutes having to drive when I am tired and having to take less familiar alternative routes in the dark.
If the Councils, utilities and Highways Agency are going to unco-ordinate so much that tired people are going to be forced to drive for longer on unfamiliar roads late at night, this might well lead to more accidents.[/p][/quote]So your saying that you are a danger on the road then due to being tired, simple if your tired pull over and have a rest, as the meerkats say SIMPLEs.Panther33

Excluded again wrote…

One possible cause is the sheer number of roadworks and road closures at night in the area.

I'd not fully appreciated this until tonight. Basically it has taken me 15 minutes longer to drive home at night from working near Congleton than it took to drive there this afternoon. 15 extra minutes late at night when I've been working. So I'm tired. So that is 15 extra minutes having to drive when I am tired and having to take less familiar alternative routes in the dark.

If the Councils, utilities and Highways Agency are going to unco-ordinate so much that tired people are going to be forced to drive for longer on unfamiliar roads late at night, this might well lead to more accidents.

So your saying that you are a danger on the road then due to being tired, simple if your tired pull over and have a rest, as the meerkats say SIMPLEs.

Score: -1

bluewindow
9:04pm Wed 30 Jul 14

TONY WALES wrote…

bluewindow wrote…

How many miles of road in the uk are unlit? Stop jumping on the band wagon. The last crash on the unlit section of the m65 was due the guy being 3times the drink drive limit. Nothing to do with no light simple bad driving!!!

Do you wish to say the driver was over the drink drive limit, or they were breaking the speed limit....or both?

Really you need to wait until the results of the inquest, and the police investigation unit.

Th only thing you can say for certain is the fact that the motorway is unlit on this section.
This is not he cause of the accident, otherwise you would have many more accidents on unlit roads.

Tony i am not saying any of the drivers this accident where over the limit. My comment was in reference to the accident a few months a ago which started the whole switch the lights back on debate. Hope this clears it up for you

[quote][p][bold]TONY WALES[/bold] wrote:
[quote][p][bold]bluewindow[/bold] wrote:
How many miles of road in the uk are unlit? Stop jumping on the band wagon. The last crash on the unlit section of the m65 was due the guy being 3times the drink drive limit. Nothing to do with no light simple bad driving!!![/p][/quote]Do you wish to say the driver was over the drink drive limit, or they were breaking the speed limit....or both?
Really you need to wait until the results of the inquest, and the police investigation unit.
Th only thing you can say for certain is the fact that the motorway is unlit on this section.
This is not he cause of the accident, otherwise you would have many more accidents on unlit roads.[/p][/quote]Tony i am not saying any of the drivers this accident where over the limit. My comment was in reference to the accident a few months a ago which started the whole switch the lights back on debate. Hope this clears it up for youbluewindow

TONY WALES wrote…

bluewindow wrote…

How many miles of road in the uk are unlit? Stop jumping on the band wagon. The last crash on the unlit section of the m65 was due the guy being 3times the drink drive limit. Nothing to do with no light simple bad driving!!!

Do you wish to say the driver was over the drink drive limit, or they were breaking the speed limit....or both?

Really you need to wait until the results of the inquest, and the police investigation unit.

Th only thing you can say for certain is the fact that the motorway is unlit on this section.
This is not he cause of the accident, otherwise you would have many more accidents on unlit roads.

Tony i am not saying any of the drivers this accident where over the limit. My comment was in reference to the accident a few months a ago which started the whole switch the lights back on debate. Hope this clears it up for you

Score: 2

the beaver
11:10pm Sat 16 Aug 14

celerysue25 wrote…

RDA Citizen wrote…

the beaver wrote…

celerysue25 wrote…

I was first on the scene just moments after it had happened. I was the one who rang 999. 2 overturned cars in the middle of both lanes. 2 guys dead to the left of my car. The road was so dark I only stopped 10 feet from the cars in the middle of the lane. Debris everywhere skid marka for hundreds of meters. I was there til 6am this morning as they wouldnt let me move my car til photos and all evidence was documented. I have never been so horrified in my life.
Nobody seemed to know what happened and ita not like you can ask everyone involved either to get the full story.
Im telling you now if I hadnt had my brand new car and I had my old one I would have been in the smash too. I didnt even see the blue car til I got out my car as a guy was emerging from the silver one.
Nobody knew eachother so a pre planned race doesnt seem likely but I wont rule it out.

The police and ambulance and fire crew did a good job of clearing the hundreds of cars back down the motorway to get people on their way. So well done to them.

Also everyone stuck was looking after eachother. Offering drinks and even food to those people that had to open/close their fasts.

There were no working street lights and the only car that had hazards on or lights was mine when i arrived. It was very difficult to see what was infront of me. But lets just wait for the police to do their investigation before making any more assumptions.

So you was driving a car with defective brakes/tyres before you replaced it? Hope you informed the new owner before they drove it.

Stop making assumptions; it could have been a 1977 Morris minor which had virtually no brakes from new.

thanks very much.

I actually had a 53 plate fiesta with brakes that were fine and tyres that were also fine. But an 11 year old car is not guna stop in the distance my 3 week old fiesta did!!

they both have the same braking systems so only driver error would make a difference!

[quote][p][bold]celerysue25[/bold] wrote:
[quote][p][bold]RDA Citizen[/bold] wrote:
[quote][p][bold]the beaver[/bold] wrote:
[quote][p][bold]celerysue25[/bold] wrote:
I was first on the scene just moments after it had happened. I was the one who rang 999. 2 overturned cars in the middle of both lanes. 2 guys dead to the left of my car. The road was so dark I only stopped 10 feet from the cars in the middle of the lane. Debris everywhere skid marka for hundreds of meters. I was there til 6am this morning as they wouldnt let me move my car til photos and all evidence was documented. I have never been so horrified in my life.
Nobody seemed to know what happened and ita not like you can ask everyone involved either to get the full story.
Im telling you now if I hadnt had my brand new car and I had my old one I would have been in the smash too. I didnt even see the blue car til I got out my car as a guy was emerging from the silver one.
Nobody knew eachother so a pre planned race doesnt seem likely but I wont rule it out.
The police and ambulance and fire crew did a good job of clearing the hundreds of cars back down the motorway to get people on their way. So well done to them.
Also everyone stuck was looking after eachother. Offering drinks and even food to those people that had to open/close their fasts.
There were no working street lights and the only car that had hazards on or lights was mine when i arrived. It was very difficult to see what was infront of me. But lets just wait for the police to do their investigation before making any more assumptions.[/p][/quote]So you was driving a car with defective brakes/tyres before you replaced it? Hope you informed the new owner before they drove it.[/p][/quote]Stop making assumptions; it could have been a 1977 Morris minor which had virtually no brakes from new.[/p][/quote]thanks very much.
I actually had a 53 plate fiesta with brakes that were fine and tyres that were also fine. But an 11 year old car is not guna stop in the distance my 3 week old fiesta did!![/p][/quote]they both have the same braking systems so only driver error would make a difference!the beaver

celerysue25 wrote…

RDA Citizen wrote…

the beaver wrote…

celerysue25 wrote…

I was first on the scene just moments after it had happened. I was the one who rang 999. 2 overturned cars in the middle of both lanes. 2 guys dead to the left of my car. The road was so dark I only stopped 10 feet from the cars in the middle of the lane. Debris everywhere skid marka for hundreds of meters. I was there til 6am this morning as they wouldnt let me move my car til photos and all evidence was documented. I have never been so horrified in my life.
Nobody seemed to know what happened and ita not like you can ask everyone involved either to get the full story.
Im telling you now if I hadnt had my brand new car and I had my old one I would have been in the smash too. I didnt even see the blue car til I got out my car as a guy was emerging from the silver one.
Nobody knew eachother so a pre planned race doesnt seem likely but I wont rule it out.

The police and ambulance and fire crew did a good job of clearing the hundreds of cars back down the motorway to get people on their way. So well done to them.

Also everyone stuck was looking after eachother. Offering drinks and even food to those people that had to open/close their fasts.

There were no working street lights and the only car that had hazards on or lights was mine when i arrived. It was very difficult to see what was infront of me. But lets just wait for the police to do their investigation before making any more assumptions.

So you was driving a car with defective brakes/tyres before you replaced it? Hope you informed the new owner before they drove it.

Stop making assumptions; it could have been a 1977 Morris minor which had virtually no brakes from new.

thanks very much.

I actually had a 53 plate fiesta with brakes that were fine and tyres that were also fine. But an 11 year old car is not guna stop in the distance my 3 week old fiesta did!!

they both have the same braking systems so only driver error would make a difference!

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