Title: Re: I reject using wads in a revolver for these reasons
Post by: Gunslinger9378 on July 12, 2013, 07:22:32 PM

Dear Friends, I most heartily concur with what our friend, JoeHadenuff has said in his posting! Another reason I could give him, is that if the revolver is toi be lefft loaded for some time, any lube in the wad CAN contaminate the powder charge. Also when you use a lubed wad, ONLY the bore of the barrel gets lubed, and that probably not as efficiently as it would be with some lube over the ball! LubeOVER the ball also lubes the cylinder rotating pin, and makes it un-necessary to have a light hammer and a screwdriver handy, when you need to charge the revolver with a fresh loaded cylinder.because the carbon build up had almost welded the cylinder in place in the frame! With lubericant OVER the ball, some of this gets blown into the space at the front of the cylinder, making it much easier to change to a loaded one, after the first six rounds have been fired. Joe is obviously a person with sound common sense, and since it would seem that he joioned during the period when I was unable to get online, I wish him a very warm welcome to the forum, and hope he enjoys it half as much as I have!

Johnnie Roper,Alias:Gunslinger9378.

Title: Re: I reject using wads in a revolver for these reasons
Post by: Classanr on July 12, 2013, 07:43:09 PM

Dear Friends, I most heartily concur with what our friend, JoeHadenuff has said in his posting! Another reason I could give him, is that if the revolver is toi be lefft loaded for some time, any lube in the wad CAN contaminate the powder charge. Also when you use a lubed wad, ONLY the bore of the barrel gets lubed, and that probably not as efficiently as it would be with some lube over the ball! LubeOVER the ball also lubes the cylinder rotating pin, and makes it un-necessary to have a light hammer and a screwdriver handy, when you need to charge the revolver with a fresh loaded cylinder.because the carbon build up had almost welded the cylinder in place in the frame! With lubericant OVER the ball, some of this gets blown into the space at the front of the cylinder, making it much easier to change to a loaded one, after the first six rounds have been fired. Joe is obviously a person with sound common sense, and since it would seem that he joioned during the period when I was unable to get online, I wish him a very warm welcome to the forum, and hope he enjoys it half as much as I have!

Johnnie Roper,Alias:Gunslinger9378.

Thanks fer the kind words my freind. By agreeing with me yer obviously very savvy. If this continues we'll get along famously,yes indeed.Classanr is from Kalifornia and therefore suspect,but most likely ok,rehabilitated and so on.

Title: Re: I reject using wads in a revolver for these reasons
Post by: Hawg on July 12, 2013, 09:37:57 PM

I like wads because they're less messy and they don't add another step. If you're not lubing over the balls the steps are the same but the wads are faster. A properly lubed wad is dry to the touch and any powder contamination is miniscule.

Title: Re: I reject using wads in a revolver for these reasons
Post by: Captainkirk on July 12, 2013, 10:57:45 PM

Well, let me be the rotten friggin' apple in the barrel here and say I LOVE THE WADS!!!!I used Crisco, Maxi Lube, Bore Butter and the like for a hell of a long time, and all I can tell you is that shooting BP was a royal PITA.....like trying to hold onto a live greased eel....electric, at that.....until I discovered that, Yes, Virginia, you can shoot without a rag in your back pocket and still maintain control of your muzzle!Lubes, especially Crisco, are effective (as our own Johnnie says) but why put yourself through all that bullshit if'n you don't have to? Are we all members of the Masochist's Club International? (we have to be charter members to shoot BP in the first place!) I say, to hell with that slippery goo! Shoot and enjoy yourself! (rather than "Enjoy and shoot yourself") ;)

Title: Re: I reject using wads in a revolver for these reasons
Post by: ssb73q on July 13, 2013, 09:39:05 AM

I like wads because they're less messy and they don't add another step. If you're not lubing over the balls the steps are the same but the wads are faster. A properly lubed wad is dry to the touch and any powder contamination is miniscule.

Hi Hawg, I agree 100%. Good quality 1/8" lubed felt wads cost me ~$0.035/each. Shooting a lube on front of ball soon leaves a revolver that's like a greased pig, difficult to hold and operate. If I expect to keep cylinders loaded for an extended (read indefinite) period of time, I will add a thin .45 Colt dry wad over the powder followed by a lubed wad and ball.

Seems in a past life we went through this topic before?http://1858remington.com/discuss/index.php/topic,5782.0.html

Regards,Richard

Title: Re: I reject using wads in a revolver for these reasons
Post by: ssb73q on July 13, 2013, 09:44:30 AM

Joe is obviously a person with sound common sense, and since it would seem that he joioned during the period when I was unable to get online, I wish him a very warm welcome to the forum, and hope he enjoys it half as much as I have!

Johnnie Roper,Alias:Gunslinger9378.

Hi Johnnie, glad to see you back posting, I missed your postings. {?| {?| {?|

Regards,Richard

Title: Re: I reject using wads in a revolver for these reasons
Post by: Saranac Sam on July 13, 2013, 12:04:16 PM

I agree with Joe and his shooting companion. You guys are just slobs if you can't keep the grease off your fingers ... just kidding, don't flame me ])M

I'm avoiding wads right now because I have a lifetime supply of bullet topping.

If I could think of an easy way to make wads, I would, I just resist the idea of buying them online and paying shipping.

To each his own...

Title: Re: I reject using wads in a revolver for these reasons
Post by: ssb73q on July 13, 2013, 12:11:29 PM

I agree with Joe and his shooting companion. You guys are just slobs if you can't keep the grease off your fingers ... just kidding, don't flame me ])M

I'm avoiding wads right now because I have a lifetime supply of bullet topping.

If I could think of an easy way to make wads, I would, I just resist the idea of buying them online and paying shipping.

To each his own...

Hi Sam, well, I'm not going to shake hands with you when at the range. )L$ )L$ (?^ (?^

I have a theory (I always have a theory?) that maybe Johnnie shot his hand because his revolver was so greasy that he couldn't hold it. Maybe if he used wads, he would have one less hole in him? {+* {+*

BTW check out SageBrush for wads. IMO once you use them, you will never look back.

Regards,Richard

Title: Re: I reject using wads in a revolver for these reasons
Post by: kituwa on July 13, 2013, 01:22:07 PM

I make my own wads. There is a little store here that has some new old lady style 100% felt hats for 3.50 each.1/8th thick that i cut them out of with a punch and then dip em in lube i make from canning pariffin, bee wax and olive oil. Put more pariffin in the mix for hot weather. After the wads are dipped and cooled i put them in a zip lock bag with some baby powder and shake it up,wont be greasy on yer hands at all and wont stick together in a container. I also use the same lube that i pour into a piece of the right size PVC pipe and let set up. Then i push it out in a long stick and slice it into 1/8th thick waffers that i sometimes use over the ball instead of useing a wad.Also works great as a lube to put on the cylinder pin to help stop fowling. Very little money in a nuff wads and grease cookies to last for years and my son and i shoot a lot too. Buying the premade ones is too much for me,,im such a tight wad i can sit on a quarter and squeeze a booger outta George Washingtons nose.

Title: Re: I reject using wads in a revolver for these reasons
Post by: Hawg on July 13, 2013, 02:17:48 PM

I dunno how many wads you can get out of an old lady hat but this is the best place to buy hard felt for wads. http://www.durofelt.com/image_26.html

Title: Re: I reject using wads in a revolver for these reasons
Post by: joehadenuff on July 13, 2013, 03:14:41 PM

I dont understand why you guys just can't agree with Johnnie. Pffft.

Title: Re: I reject using wads in a revolver for these reasons
Post by: Hawg on July 13, 2013, 03:17:42 PM

Title: Re: I reject using wads in a revolver for these reasons
Post by: kituwa on July 13, 2013, 03:34:02 PM

Johnny, did i mention that the old lady hats i use come in red, brown, green, tan, and black? That way i can color co-ord-in-ate my wads with what ever T-shirt i have on that day.

Title: Re: I reject using wads in a revolver for these reasons
Post by: BeBop268170 on July 13, 2013, 03:43:55 PM

I think a compromise would be to pan lube conical bullets and load them into the cylinders as you would reload a cartridge. No wad under or lube over the bullets. That's my idea anyway.

Title: Re: I reject using wads in a revolver for these reasons
Post by: Gunslinger9378 on July 13, 2013, 04:03:02 PM

Dear Friends, I have NO IDEA what kind of lube that our respected and Honorable Capt. Kirk was using! A couple of months ago I shot off all twelve of my cylinders, (Which for the Mathematically challenged means 72 shots!) ALL the cylinders had hot loads, and because of the Arizona Heat, the lube was about 50% Beeswax and Olive Oil.(Each!) At no time did any of my three Sheriff's Models become greasy to the touch. Some grease was deposited on the part of the frame that is below the barrel and the Rammer housing. AT NO TIME did ANY lube get onto any part of the revolver that the shooter would hold when shooting! On the other point, I DID NOT SHOOT MYSELF IN THE HAND! The pistol slipped out of a holster that I had designed badly. I had wanted a right hand crossdraw holster to wear the the left of my trouser belt buckle, and also wanted it to ride a little higher than most rigs of this type. So I sewed the belt loop lower onto the holster! However, most of the weight in a sheriff's Model is well BEHIND the front of the cylinder. This caused the pistol when worn to sag at the butt end, until it was at almost horizontal to the ground. As I always do whenever I remove or place a pistol into a holster, I visually checked to make sure the hammer of the gun was resting in a safety notch. It WAS! I bent down in the kitchen of my apartment to pick up an object from the floor, and the pistol slid out, and hit the floor on the heel of the butt. It then bounced, and the second time it hit the floor, it hit on the Hammer Spur. I was reaching to pick the gun up at the time, and it discharged into my left hand! Felt like I had been hit in the hand by John Henry. (He of the ten pound sledge hammer, with the four foot Hickory Handle!) My first thought was, "How in the HELL did that thing go off?" In the hospital, I had a lot of time to think about it, and three days later when I returned to the apartment, I carefully examined the pistol that had gone off. It had fired a chamber through the barrel. For five of the chambers were still fully loaded, and the barrel was fouled. Then I took an un-capped cylinder, placed it into the same gun, and discovered that the safety slots in the rear of the cylinder had less that a one millimeter "bite" on the hammer. So what must have happened, was that when the pistol fell with the muzzle pointing ceilingwards. the floor stopped the gun moving, but the hammer still carried on moving for enough time to allow the cylinder to move, and for the hammer to rest on a live cap. I believe the pistol bounced somewhere between four and six inches up from the linotile floor, and that this was enough fro the weight of the revolver to fire the cap, when it landed on the second bounce, on the hammer spur. I was at blame to the extent that I had designed the holster badly! I should have also checked long before the accident happened, to see just how well the safety slots in the rear of the cylinders held the hammer! I have posted before on this, and once more advise that you all learn from my pain, and check your revolvers for this factor, and take steps with file, or Dremel tool to enhance the depth that your hammers "bite," into the safety slots in the rear of your cylinders! I now have about a three millimetre "bite" on all three of my guns, but I am still most careful not to drop any of them!!! In almost sixty years of shooting, I have had, including this last one, four accidental Discharges! I have NEVER had one that caused any pain or injury to another person, until this last one, when I was my own victim. As I realised I had been hit by the ball, I naturally looked at the hand to see the extent of the injury. My hand just looked like a lump of raw hamburger. I thought, "I'mgoing to lose this hand!" Then I wondered if I could still move all my fingers? To my surprise, I could! So heartened by this, I thought to myself, "They can do wonders these days, maybe the surgeon will be able to save it?" To cut a long story short, such was the case! They had to take some skin (And a chunk of flesh!) from my feft forearm to replace what the ball had blown away, and there is a small area on my left hand and wrist that now grows hair! I shave it now and then, in case someone sees the hair, and begins to wonder if there IS anything to Darwin's Theory of Evolution! I regard myself as being extremely fortunate that my injury was so slight. Had the gun turned a few more degrees in the air, before hitting the floor the second time, the ball could have gone through my head of my heart! Upon return from the hospital, Ana and I searched the apartment from Stem to stern, and from top to bottom. We never found the ball!. All the windows were tight shut, and none were broken. The walls and the ceiling had dried pieces of my flesh here and there, but no mark whatsoever that might have indicated the ball had struck there. I didwonder if one of the cats had found the bloodstained ball, and they had played with it. But we moved the fridge out from the wall, and the cookstove, and never found a trace of it! Where it went to is a complete mystery, that now we have moved house, will never be solved! We searched for it very thoroughly, moving every piece of furniture in the place, and went over the walls and ceiling inch by inch to search for a mark where the ball may have bounced. Not a sign of anything did we find! It is a complete mystery as to where that ball went after it went through my hand! So I hope that all my friends on the forum, will learn from my experience, and DO check your revolvers to see how much of the hammer is caught by the safety slots in the rear of the cylinders, in between the nipple stations. On my un-altered guns it was slighthly less that one millimeter. They now have three millimeters, and I have a feeling that even this might not be enough to guarantee safety! The offending Holster I later affixed a safety thong to. However there was something about it I could not come to terms with, so when Texian visited me near the beggining of this year, I made hm a present of the holster, after extracting from him a PROMISE that he would NEVER carry a gun in it, without the safety thong in place over the hammer! Johnnie Roper,Alias:Gunslinger9378.

Title: Re: I reject using wads in a revolver for these reasons
Post by: joehadenuff on July 13, 2013, 04:19:04 PM

Dang Johnnie yer lucky.

Title: Re: I reject using wads in a revolver for these reasons
Post by: Saranac Sam on July 13, 2013, 06:18:43 PM

Well, who here has not had an accidental discharge inside their house? (not me, I take it out on the deck) Anyway, having shot some BP revolvers, I really don't see how you get grease all over the thing so it feels "slippery as an eel." Just sayin... ])M

Title: Re: I reject using wads in a revolver for these reasons
Post by: DD4lifeusmc on July 13, 2013, 08:56:10 PM

if we all agreed on everything then there'd be no discussion and hence no advancement in different technologies.Sagebrush does make a good product. they have dry and dry lubed wads at a fair price.I was stocking them, but not enough call for them or any wads.So I bought some felt at durofelt (above link) and a was cutter. I sell these dry to customers at $3.5- a hundred.But for myself, I roll paper cartridges and use pan dipped conicalsI use CVA grease patch on the cylinder pin and the internals.

Title: Re: I reject using wads in a revolver for these reasons
Post by: Pustic on July 13, 2013, 10:04:56 PM

I use wads 'tween the powder and ball, no grease on the end.

Title: Re: I reject using wads in a revolver for these reasons
Post by: Gunslinger9378 on July 14, 2013, 06:51:40 PM

Dear Friends, The problem with coming to an agreement on this, "To Wad or not to Wad," question, is that a lot of us use our revolvers in very different ways. I have seen enough of Sheriff Langston's posting for example, to believe he is a keen "Paper Puncher," who shoots relatively light loads when at the shooting range, and that his "Thing," is accuracy! I believe that he probably takes pistol, flasks, Lubed Wads, and a Loading press with him to the range, and he may or may not have a spare cylinder. I think he also takes a Black Powder Hogleg with him on hikes in the woods! Whether he loads it more heavily when on these jaunts into nature, I have no idea. I am not sure of his locale, and have no idea of what kind of wild fauna he might come across, and whether any of them may be dangerous under certain circumstances! G-Dog, and Smokin_Gun live in an area where the occasional Mountain Lion could be met up with, and perhaps, (If they were REALLY unlucky!!!) a Brown Bear! This last species has good reason to know that man is a very anti social creature, and they have come to dislike us! They are also creatures with so much strength and vitality, that if I had my Druthers, and found myself face to jowl with one, the weapon I would wish for, would be a double Barrelled .600 Nitro Express! I have read that they can soak up an amazing amount of punishment, and still put flowers in a man's hair! I know that Hickok killed one with what was probably a .44 Dragoon pistol, and then finished it off with a Bowie Knife, but he was found unconscious half under the dead She Bear, and took a long time to regain his former Health & Strength! Considering the depth of medical knowledge available at that time on the frontier, he was very lucky indeed to survive the encounter! I do go and practice with my pistols in the Arizona Desert, but my practice is usually at fairly short ranges, and I concentrate on my own brand of Combat Type Shooting. A short few months back, I had some threats of a very serious nature made to me, and while I now believe that the people who uttered these threats, have now lost interest, (Word has gotten around that the Old Fart Carries Heat!) once you get used to carrying, you feel uncomfortable if you happen to leave the house without a gun! (Kinda like forgetting to put on your britches, before taking the dog Walkies!) Somehow that solid lump under the armpit, or on the hip is very comforting! One feels more secure somehow! The Noted Western Author, Paul I. Wellman, a historian of some note, once wrote that in the REAL Old West, it was a very polite society! Everyone carried a weapon, and so everyone was careful not to upset one another, as the results of a quarrel could be dangerous, and perhaps fatal! I know that when I was a Deputy Constable in Arkansas, and started carrying all the while, I was a little scared until I got used to the idea! I was aware that I was carrying an object that could kill another man, and I knew that there was a whole quagmire of things one should know, and a lot of these things I was ignorant of. My Chief, the Constable, was a little surprised at me when I told him I was a bit nervous, and then he suddenly realised that I was NOT a Native Born American, and that I still had a deep rooted streak of English Phobia's in me. He began to teach me as we went around in the patrol car. We'd stop near a convenience store, and he would invent an imaginary scenario, and ask me what I would do, if I walked into the store, and found a hold-up in progress. Of course my first answers made him cringe, but he soon pointed out the mistakes, and altered my way of thinking on such matters. When I had first said I would pull a gun on the hold-up man, he winced, and then asked me what about the second Hold-Up Man, who was watching his friends back, while pretending to look at a copy of "Playboy," on the Magazine rack! All the things that a Newbie would think, I thought too. Until a full course of his, "What Would You Do If," I was very much the novice. However I was a quick study, and in time would reverse the proceedure, and think up scenarios of my own to try on him! We had a lot of fun that way! When I first got Betsina, I had no Holy Black at all, and was using pure Pyrodex. This worked quite well, as long as the gun was not left loaded for more than about three weeks. I found out that since I had been away from B.P.Shooting for almost ten years, I had to RE-Learn a few things. It was a few months before I was able to find a source in this state for Holy Black, and it was a very expensive pound of Black Powder, when I got down to adding up the costs! $25.+ for the powder, plus what it cost me in gasoline to drive from Glendale, all the way to Yuma and back! From where I lived in Glendale at that time, the mileage between my apartment and Sprague's Sports Store, was just abut 205 miles! So I did 410 miles to get one pound of powder. Gas was about $3.60 at that time here, and my little 1993 Toyota Tercel did about 32 miles to the gallon on a long trip. So if I used 13 gallons on the trip, that would have cost me almost $47.oo, so that pound of Holy Black cost me darned near $75 Bucks! The good news is, that I only use Holy Black to make certain that every shot goes off! I have had hang-fires when cylinders I have left loaded with just pure Pyrodex, for a few months, have had Hang-Fires in some of the chambers. The ten grains of Holy Black as a "Starter," put paid to that! If I only shot at paper Targets at a shooting range, I'd just use Pyrodex, Because if you load this powder, and shoot the gun almost straight away, everything works just fine! It's when you carry for a possible "Serious Social Encounter," that you have to be sure that EVERY ROUND IN ALL YOUR CHAMBERS IS GOING TO BO BOOM, INSTANTLY! With Holy Black at the base of each chamber, plus meticulous care in preparation in the loading process, Clean Chamber with just your powder charge, the ball, and your lube OVER the ball, and using a brand of cap that you are confidant in, WILL give you the kind of results you will need! There is no Second Place Winner in a gun fight. Whether it is with John Q.Slimeball, or a Pissed off Oversized Pussy Cat, you need that revolver to go BOOM, each and every time! If you don't do it right, you may wind up with us all here, telling each other what a Helluva Nice Guy you were! Johnnie Roper,Alias:Gunslinger9378.

Title: Re: I reject using wads in a revolver for these reasons
Post by: Hawg on July 14, 2013, 07:06:15 PM

I dunno what you do wrong but I've shot guns that were loaded with Pyrodex for several years that fired fine. My FIL loaded a Hawken rifle for a hunting trip and then his health went bad and he never fired it. I know that rifle sat for at least ten years, maybe more. After he died my MIL gave it to me. I put one cap on it and fired it off.

Title: Re: I reject using wads in a revolver for these reasons
Post by: SourMashII on July 14, 2013, 09:27:28 PM

Running low on wads, I brought Crisco with me today.

Decided it's a slimey mess, AND if you forget to lube.. CHAINFIRES are a REAL threat. Experienced two "double barrel" shots today.

(different cylinders, forgot to lube twice, have only ever used wads)

Title: Re: I reject using wads in a revolver for these reasons
Post by: Captainkirk on July 14, 2013, 09:58:29 PM

Johnny, follow my logic train, if you will;1) Load up a cylinder, top off with your favorite soft lube (insert here_______) *Crisco*Bore Butter*Maxi Lube*other2) Fire the gun3) All six blow grease all over the barrel4) You wipe it off with the rag in your pocket and reload5) Repeat 6-10 timesBy the time you've popped off 10 cylinder-fulls, your rag is saturated, your hands are greasy, and you have resorted to wiping them on your pants or shirtOR:.................Use wads. No messSeems pretty clear to me, anyway. To each their own, no doubt, but that's my 2 cents.

Title: Re: I reject using wads in a revolver for these reasons
Post by: joehadenuff on July 14, 2013, 11:36:44 PM

Heres a fictional anecdote about why you should'nt use wads.

You just got released from prison.You got the shirt on yer back an a EBT card.got to get to the hidden cash from the bank robbery.your ex partner knows you got out and wants his cut.You need a gun...fast.But how? You stand outside the grocery store and buy food with yer card for 50 cents on the dollar from the sheep.you rustle up $229.00 [plus tax] and hitchike to Cabelas an get yer 1858.You grub some balls and powder from passersby sayin yer "fresh out".You return to the halfway house and find yer door ajar.Its dark.All of a sudden a hand reaches out for your drawn pistol,but cant get a grip because its so greasy.You and yer ex partner laugh hysterically,make up ,retrieve the hidden loot,and go find some ho's.

the end

Title: Re: I reject using wads in a revolver for these reasons
Post by: ssb73q on July 15, 2013, 05:00:47 AM

I'm waiting for someone to tell us how he one day ran out of lube and had to use K-Y Jelly. {?| {?| {?|

Regards,Richard

Title: Re: I reject using wads in a revolver for these reasons
Post by: kituwa on July 15, 2013, 08:38:48 AM

Actually i tried the K-Y jelly. Wife and i went out to shoot together so we brought some of that new his and hers K-Y, the his is in a blue bottle and is warm and the hers is in a pink bottle and is cool.We loaded up our guns and i smeared the end of my balls with the blue while she liberally lubed her chambers with the pink. The stuff was so slick that when i threw down on the target my balls just fell out and the same thing with the pink stuff in her gun, the balls just rolled out of her chambers. It got really messy let me tell ya!

Title: Re: I reject using wads in a revolver for these reasons
Post by: Classanr on July 15, 2013, 08:51:16 AM

Part of the program at Bunker Hill is to demonstrate phrases such as "Going Off Half-Cocked" (like kituwa just did) and "He Shot His Wad." Nice flaming wad flying out with just the "smooooomp" of the rifle being fired, impressed even the gun-wary. Now, if Joe and Johnnie had their way back then, the Order of Reloading would now be "Ram Powder", "Start Balls", "Ram Balls", "Grease Balls"...

Naw, it just wouldn't work. Long cotton swabs by J&J didn't exist back then.

I think GOBs didn't come into play until the advent of percussion and rotating cylinders. Until then, it was all WUBs. Clearly, once a WUB, always a WUB. Except the WUBs who are converted to GOBs, and we all know converted sinners are the worst of the lot.

Classanr

Title: Re: I reject using wads in a revolver for these reasons
Post by: PaleHawkDown on July 15, 2013, 10:06:36 AM

I prefer the wads to lube, mainly because with the weird weather we get down here that lube could be syrup one day and water the next, and both are messy. I use the Traditions Wonder Wads and am quite happy.

Title: Re: I reject using wads in a revolver for these reasons
Post by: Sheriff Langston on July 15, 2013, 10:17:28 AM

You're prety much dead on with regard to how I shoot. MD is pretty much "not on a range, no loaded anything" territory, even for cap & ball. Once you have a charge, a ball & a primer fitted the non-weapon "antique" miraculously transforms into a firearm, so any kind of B/P carry is effectively illegal except on a range. If you leave the cap off, dont use a ball (blanks like re-enactors) then you don't "posess a gun", but add all 3 under utterly identical circumstancres & you do!

I do shoot paper for accuracy, but I tinkered about till I got a load that had reasonable "wallop" & was accurate. That's where I stuck myself with a standard load of 28 Gr of FFFg, a wad & a RB.

I occasionally go elswhere out of state which is really easy here as I'm 15 minutes from PA & only 5 from WVa. There its likley I'm walking woods on private property so I carry the '58. Sometimes I'll just plink, sometimes we'll set up old 1-gallon jugs, & sometimes we do absolutely nothing at all! :-[

Title: Re: I reject using wads in a revolver for these reasons
Post by: PaleHawkDown on July 15, 2013, 10:50:14 AM

MD and Michigan seem to be taking it in turns to outdo each other on laws that regulate BP guns. What's bad is that these new regs don't always show up on the state sites, and you have to hunt through three different agencies sometimes to get a cohesive (and sometimes contradictory) answer. I would almost swear both of those states are run by the same people.

Maryland used to be a freedom-loving state and Michigan used to be a hunting Mecca. It's a shame.

Title: Re: I reject using wads in a revolver for these reasons
Post by: Fingers McGee on July 15, 2013, 12:38:32 PM

Well, that's about as succinct I can be. My 2013 New Years resolution was to forswear pedagogy

Title: Re: I reject using wads in a revolver for these reasons
Post by: Mad Dog Stafford on July 16, 2013, 11:57:58 AM

(?^ (T^

Title: Re: I reject using wads in a revolver for these reasons
Post by: ssb73q on July 16, 2013, 11:59:07 AM

Hi Fingers, thank you, I learn something new every day:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pedagogy

Regards,Richard

Title: Re: I reject using wads in a revolver for these reasons
Post by: Gunslinger9378 on July 16, 2013, 03:00:05 PM

Dear Friends, First I would like to comment on Captain Kirks experience with lubing over the ball. Soft lubing will not work satisfactorily! the lubing has to be hard enough so that (In my case!) The heat from the Arizona Summer Sun, doesn't melt the stuff! I did try lubing with Crisco once, and believe me, once was more than enough! However, the mixture I now use, 50% each of Beeswax and Olive Oil is very satisfactory. It does not make the gun become grungy, no lube gets anywhere but on the lower front part of the frame, where the rammer housing is, and this can be wiped off with a piece of paper Towel. I don't carry rags, as these become grungy, although I have never had one get so bad I stopped using it, and wiped my hands on my clothing! I can shoot off 72 rounds, and still have all three guns in a condition that would be practical to reload, and then shoot some more! Now to Finger's McGee: I AM NOT WRONG! I just choose to do things MY WAY! MY WAY suits me just fine, and when I load my weapons in this manner, I ALWAYS GET A LOUD BOOM EVERY TIME I SQUEEZE THE TRIGGER! If I can get an instant, powerful and accurate shot each time I fire, how dare you say I am wrong! I happen to do things differently from you, but that does not make ME WRONG! How can I be wrong, when every time I fire one of my guns, it goes off with full power, and the ball strikes the target very near to the point I aimed at! No Hang-Fires, No Squib Loads, just an accurate, full power round, EACH AND EVERY TIME I PULL THE TRIGGER! So now I would like you to tell me in which specific way you think I am wrong! I don't know which of us is older, I don't know which of us has shot more rounds in black powder revolvers. However, I DO know that I have my way of loading and shooting my guns, and if it so happens that the Great And All Knowing Fingers McGee doesn't like it, then he should keep his mouth shut. My system WORKS! Works whether the cylinders have been loaded the day before, or six months before hand! The lube that does get on the outside of the gun, does so in a location that does not affect the grip of my hands upon the weapon, and in no way affects the efficiency of the gun to do whatever I want it to do! My method may not suit the Great All Knowing and Infallible Fingers McGee, but you know what? I don't give a damn what another man thinksabout my system of shooting, I KNOW MY WAY WORKS FOR ME, AND IT WILL WORK FOR ANYONE ELSE WHO WILL FOLLOW EXACTLY MY METHODS! If you want to be able to leave cylinders loaded for a long time, and still have six resounding BOOMS, then load 'em the way I do. I have used wads, and found them to be unsatisfactory for ME! With my guns andd loads, I AM THE ONE WHO HAS TO BE SATISFIED, AND I AM! I need the extra lube that is sprayed into the space between the cylinder and the rear of the barrel, because I do not load my revolvers out in the desert, I change cylinders from my stock of them, AND NEED THE CYLINDER PIN TO BE LUBED SO I CAN EXTRACT IT EACH TIME I WANT TO LOAD WITH A FRESH CYLINDER! I DON'T GIVE A HOOT WHAT THE GREAT AND ALL KNOWING FINGERS MCGEE THINKS ABOUT THE MATTER. I am satisfied that the way I do things ALWAYS GETS GOOD RESULTS WHEN I SHOOT! Which makes makes my way, THE RIGHT WAY! I will accept an apology from Fingers McGee, if he is man enough to make one!

Johnnie Roper,Alias:Gunslinger9378.

Title: Re: I reject using wads in a revolver for these reasons
Post by: kituwa on July 16, 2013, 04:09:02 PM

Fingers may well have apologized, not sure, that were a big word he used that was way over this rednecks head.But, it sounded like it may be some kinda polish desert he was offerin ya. LoL

Title: Re: I reject using wads in a revolver for these reasons
Post by: Hawg on July 16, 2013, 04:32:13 PM

Fingers may well have apologized, not sure, that were a big word he used that was way over this rednecks head.But, it sounded like it may be some kinda polish desert he was offerin ya. LoL

No, he was saying he gave up trying to edjumacate people. (k-

I do not believe an apology will be forthcoming.

You are correct.

Gunslingers method of loading, shooting and cleaning are the best for him; and that is great. They do not work for me, and may not work for everyone. I have my own methods that work for me. Our impasse is like unto the great Colt/Remington (and Ginger/Marianne) debate. Some people love Remingtons (Ginger) and hate Colt's; some people love Colt's (Marianne) and hate Remingtons.

You really need to take a chill pill Gunslinger. Yelling and screaming like that could cause you to blow a gasket.

:9)

Title: Re: I reject using wads in a revolver for these reasons
Post by: ssb73q on July 16, 2013, 06:21:08 PM

Hi, will everyone please take a chill pill? I saw the banter as joking and a very healthy discussion where nobody should feel insulted. If you are, reread the thread again and calm down.

This discussion has gotten especially silly since there is really only one best way to insure a bang every time, that's to carry a modern firearm with quality ammunition.

However, there is one thing I have learned about muzzleloading firearms, different people practice the art differently. Getting all heated up discourages people from posting for fear of having their head taken off.

Regards,Richard

Title: Re: I reject using wads in a revolver for these reasons
Post by: BeBop268170 on July 16, 2013, 06:21:24 PM

Title: Re: I reject using wads in a revolver for these reasons
Post by: kituwa on July 16, 2013, 08:35:56 PM

Yikes! im sowy,,i honestly thought everyone was just BS'n. But, i will take one each,,one remington and one Ginger, and one Colt with one Mary Anne all served up with a good lubein of butter, cause everythangs better with Blue Bonnet on it.

Title: Re: I reject using wads in a revolver for these reasons
Post by: SourMashII on July 16, 2013, 08:57:35 PM

^ lol.. It sure the hell ain;'tfood.. might try using that instead. found a place online that has .0030 wads, 1000 for $19.99.. Beats the shit out of what I am paying at BlackSheep/Cabela's.

Title: Re: I reject using wads in a revolver for these reasons
Post by: Captainkirk on July 16, 2013, 09:07:04 PM

Any of you guys seen Ginger/Marianne lately? Seriously? {:(

Title: Re: I reject using wads in a revolver for these reasons
Post by: Hawg on July 16, 2013, 09:25:52 PM

Its really not fair to show Marianne's mug shot. She was arrested for swerving while driving and found in possession. Somebody else had her car and left the joints behind and admitted it. She pled guilty to one charge of reckless driving and served six months of unsupervised probation.

Title: Re: I reject using wads in a revolver for these reasons
Post by: Fingers McGee on July 16, 2013, 09:27:23 PM

Its really not fair to show Marianne's mug shot. She was arrested for swerving while driving and found in possession. Somebody else had her car and left the joints behind and admitted it. She pled guilty to one charge of reckless driving and served six months of unsupervised probation.

And she still looks better than Ginger

Title: Re: I reject using wads in a revolver for these reasons
Post by: Captainkirk on July 16, 2013, 09:53:01 PM

OK, OK....we all get old, I guess.For the record, I was in the Maryanne camp as a kid.

Title: Re: I reject using wads in a revolver for these reasons
Post by: joehadenuff on July 17, 2013, 04:43:51 AM

I want to state the following for the record;

1] ginger was hot. And so was Maryann.When I wos a lad I'd would have taken either.2] Gunslinger Johnny is totally correct an errybody else is wrong.[except me]3]Everyone is entitled to their opinion,practices etc.[even if ill advised an contemptable]

Casting say a conical, for use in cap and ball, with the gas check relief, after they are lubed (I still don't get that one, but haven't researched it either), does that negate wads?

Paper cartridges are even worse than wads.

Title: Re: I reject using wads in a revolver for these reasons
Post by: Hawg on July 17, 2013, 06:25:52 AM

Lubed conicals don't need a wad. If you use a round ball in a paper cartridge it really needs to have lube over the ball. As far as over ball lube goes you do not need to pack the entire space between ball and chamber mouth with lube. If you do it just blows it all over the gun. A little around the edges of the ball will work fine.

Title: Re: I reject using wads in a revolver for these reasons
Post by: Classanr on July 17, 2013, 06:35:59 AM

Wads are simpler, easier to use, less messy and if lubed right can be left loaded for long periods of time.

Me thinks the only agreement is with point #3. Difference of opinion increases logarithmically in the order of #1, #2, #4.

#4 can certainly be tested. Make 9 paper carts without wad (the control group), 9 with wads (the test group). Let stand in 100degF heat for a month (in a box with a 25w light bulb). Load and shoot all 18 (alternate chambers, clean after each cylinder, thus 3 of each per group). Shoot first cylinder in cool of morning, second mid-day, third during peak heat (3pmish). Change targets with each cylinder. Record the results on high-speed camera against a timer, shooting through a Chrony, to evaluate.

I suspect the key to the conundrum is "if lubed right" - certainly the "slather it over the top of the ball" approach will risk contaminating the powder if applied using a "slather under the ball" technique. But will a wax pill, or hard-lubed felt, under the ball leach any contaminates into the powder if the temp of the charge never exceeds the melting point of the pill/wad? Likewise, if the pistol is carried muzzle up for a month, will soft lube migrate past the ball and contaminate the powder? It is coincidence that over-the-top works because of the direction of gravity relative to the location of the powder? And if that is the case, would it not work the same with wad-under?

If an argument can be made that hard lube will migrate against gravity to seek powder, then soft lube will migrate against gravity to seek powder too, and a ball in the way won't stop it.

What, specifically, about paper cartridges makes them "worse than wads"?

Do you mean carts with only powder? With powder and wad? With powder, wad, projectile? With powder and projectile? How about if lube is slathered around the edge of the projectile after the cart is rammed home?

Title: Re: I reject using wads in a revolver for these reasons
Post by: Hawg on July 17, 2013, 06:41:57 AM

Robert E. Lee's 51 navy was fired seven years after his death. It was noted that the balls had a black waxy substance over them. It was also noted all six chambers fired normally. I would imagine it was used as waterproofing more so than a lube as guns in the day weren't used that much to really need lube to keep functioning.

Title: Re: I reject using wads in a revolver for these reasons
Post by: Classanr on July 17, 2013, 06:45:57 AM

Casting say a conical, for use in cap and ball, with the gas check relief, after they are lubed (I still don't get that one, but haven't researched it either), does that negate wads?

Ah, great question. Gets to the purpose of lube and gas checks.

======= short answer ===========You always need lube somewhere (bottom or sides or top) to protect the barrel from ion-deposition. When you select appropriate lead hardness and projectile size to match your barrel's needs, you will not need a gas check. Gas checks, of themselves, don't hurt. But they are not substitutes for lube.

======= detailed explanations ======

It has been said that the function of a copper gas check is to prevent the base of the projectile from melting, and being burnished into the bore. The primary function (as far as leading the barrel is concerned) of "lube" is to disrupt the burnishing process (lead deposited on the barrel surface). This is why almost anything for lube is far better than nothing.

In shooting, there is a two-stage delivery system. The chamber and the barrel. In revolvers, there is a distinct gap between the two stages. Fouling is ejected through that gap. Over-the-top lubers state a case for litterlly blowing some lube around and about that gap to distrupt the fouling of that area. Once the projectile is in the barrel, then fixed-chamaber and rotating-chamber guns behave in a similar fashion.

The gas check in a revolver is not going to do much (by itself) to prevent fouling between cylinder and barrel. That fouling is primarily powder residue, not lead.

BearTooth has demonstrated that with BN>18 lead projectiles, even with velocity over 2200fps, a gas check is not required to prevent fouling in the barrel, but some sort of "lube" most definitely is - even with a gas check.

A recovered gas-checked projectile, when shot over 1600fps (supposedly the magic speed for soft lead) will have retained significantly more material at the base than one shot without a gas check. This is great to assure the optimum terminal ballistics, and is by itself a valid reason to apply a gas check to a bullet. This also says something about gas checks shielding the lead from the extreme heat/pressure of higher velocities, but does not address the issue of how to avoid burnishing lead into the barrel.

The fitment of the projectile to the barrel is the single most important aspect of reducing or preventing leading. The objective is to prevent the flame system from blowing past the lead and vaporizing the sides of the pojectile. The gas check protects the base, but doesn't serve well as a flame-gasket for the sides - otherwise everybody would gas-check undersized projectiles and not get leading.

The "lube" is not critical for the projectile to glide down the barrel, but is left behind as a coating to prevent the next round of solder from sticking to the barrel.

If you think of your revolver as a "flame-operated ion-deposition machine", and not merely a piston in an automotive cylinder, you will be a step towards understanding how to control leading in the barrel. However, the piston concept works well in the chambers. Think Top-Dead-Center ignition, and get the ball rolling towards that gap.

Classanr

Title: Re: I reject using wads in a revolver for these reasons
Post by: Hawg on July 17, 2013, 07:35:00 AM

I don't think he was saying to use gas checks but rather the bullets with the gas check relief cut. The main problem with those bullets are the lube grooves don't hold enough lube for use with bp.

Title: Re: I reject using wads in a revolver for these reasons
Post by: Classanr on July 17, 2013, 07:52:51 AM

What I meant by Gas Check Relief, turns out is simply lube grooving...

(http://www.biglube.com/Images/JP-45-200-1047_WEB_PROFILE.jpg)

Yeah those will work just fine. I thought you meant the ones that the base is undercut for a gas check.

Lubing the top works too. I actually use a smokeless design for my 44-40 cartridges but they have three lube grooves and with my homemade lube I haven't had any problems HYMMV.

Title: Re: I reject using wads in a revolver for these reasons
Post by: JRs12Valve on July 17, 2013, 02:52:13 PM

Holy shit yall, I think this is the most argumentative thread we've ever had on this forum!

I will not bash on anybody's ideas or practices, as I believe that if it works for them, kudos. I'll drink another beer.

I carry my 5.5" Remington for self-defense, and my Colt, or 8" Remington whenever I'm in the saddle around the ranch.

I clean/oil my guns every day, whether I shoot them or not. I do not use lube over the ball, or a greased wad, when they are loaded for defensive purposes. I conducted a 6 month test on whether leaving a revolver loaded with a greased wad for a period of time will hamper the charge or not.Wad: All 5 cylinders went off, with a bang, but there was a significant portion of unburnt, contaminated powder.No wad: BANG BANG BANG BANG BANG All 5 cylinders went off without a hitch, and there was no contamination, or loss of velocity.

As I keep a fair amount of oil in/on the barrel, cylinder pin, and frame daily, I believe it provides enough lubrication.

Now, at the range, where I will be shooting all day, I use greased wads under the ball.

Title: Re: I reject using wads in a revolver for these reasons
Post by: ssb73q on July 17, 2013, 03:05:54 PM

Hi JR, yeah, Joe dropped a bomb on the message board by making an inflammatory statement. Are we surprised at the result?

This all goes to prove that if you want some attention, drop a bomb. I hope this doesn't happen too often. :9) :9) :9) :9)

Regards,Richard

Title: Re: I reject using wads in a revolver for these reasons
Post by: joehadenuff on July 17, 2013, 07:00:13 PM

Title: Re: I reject using wads in a revolver for these reasons
Post by: Gunslinger9378 on July 18, 2013, 04:43:31 PM

Dear Friends, I DID use wads when I carried my twin Eight Inchers. I used exclusively Ox Yoke Wonder wads. These are impregnated with a dry lubricant. With these I had NO problem with powder charge contamination, BUT after the second cylinder being fired, I had to soak the area where the cylnder pin enters the front of the cylinder with some solvent to get the darned thing to slide forward! I found this to be unacceptable for me. Now that I have what even I consider to be an ample supply of spare cylinders, (12) I need the excess lube that is forced into the space there the front of the cylinder is, (Just below the forcing cone.) to make the extraction of this pin practical, Without having to use a tool of some kind to force it free! I have proved to my satisfaction, that my method of loading my cylinders, WILL GIVE 100% RELIABILITY OF BOTH IGNITION, AND THE ABILITY TO RELOAD A FRESH CYLINDER WITH EASE! A few weeks ago, I shot all twelve cylinders, some of which had been left loaded for almost three months, and did not get a single malfunction OF ANY KIND. Those of you that have modern mettalic cartridge firearms, and carry them for self defense, will most probably get the same degree of reliability, since the quality control at the factories which manufacture the ammo, are very strict. However, MY quality control in the way I keep, and control my loading methods, are I feel, equal to a very high standard of quality control. I feel that a weapon that ALWAYS goes BOOM when fired, and after firing, is easy to insert a fresh cylinder, testifies to that quality control. I am not a target shooter in the accepted sense of the word, but I am very persnickerty about the way I clean, prepare, and keep my weapons in very good shape. Should the unthinkable happen, and I have to use one or other of my guns in a serious situation, I KNOW that it will go off when I need it. I DO NOT HOPE IT WILL GO OFF, I KNOW IT WILL GO OFF! Whether I have to shoot a rabid dog, a Rattlesnake, or, God Forbid, another human being, I have utter and complete confidence that the gun will function properly,and deliver a powerful, and (Depending on my shaking hand!) an accurate shot! I agree with the member, (I apologise for not being able to remember his handle, but he commented that he cleans his gun every day, and that he carries it on horseback during the day.)I cleaned mine every day when I rode horseback. It is incredible the amount of dist and crud that a pistol will acquire when carried in a holster on horseback! That's why I always make any belt holster for Your Truly, with an open bottom! These days I run a clean wool mop down the barrel every two or three days, just to be on the safe side, but mostly when using a dental Mirror, to look at the bore before I put the wool mop through it, I find that it is not really necessary, but I do it anyway. Most days I carry in a shoulder holster, under a lightweight Safari vest, and it just doesn't get dirty! However, old habits die hard! Since reading of the real life experiences, of the two Veterans of the War of Northern Aggression, I am not all that interested in Conical Bullets. Possibly, if I was invited to go Hog Shooting in Texas, I might be tempted to use some of the heavier flat nosed conicals, that Duelist1954 has demonstrated on his very informative videos on YouTube. However, as far as defending oneself against another human, Well if the round ball in an 1851 Colt Navy was a certain fight stopper, then a .457 ball would most certainly be one! I believe that the pure lead round ball, probably inflicts very terrible wounds, if shot through the chest cavity. Wounds that a human being would be unlikely to survive. Example, General J.E.B. Stuart at Yellow Tavern. There was a big man, very fit, an excellent horseman, and he fell mortally wounded from one shot from a .44 Revolver. That man MUST have been fit! He'd spent the best part of four years in the saddle, under stressful combat conditions, and he succumbed to the wound the next day. I suffered a wound to my hand, when Betsina fell to the floor, bounced, and went off! I felt as if my hand had been hit with a sledgehammer! (Needless to say, it was a hot load!) Nowadays if people notice the disfigured hand, I say It was from a Yankee Cavalry Captain at Shiloh! (Well, it's good for a chuckle!!)I used to have a replica Yankee Forage cap. Wore it quite a lot. One of the none too bright lads at the local Supermarket, asked me if it was a family heirloom. Tongue in cheek, I said my Great Grandfater had taken it off a dead Yankee at Sharpsburg. The Kid swallowed it Hook, Line & Sinker. "Gee, Cool," he said, so I told him I was just kidding, that it was a reproduction, and an original from the War wold have been too valuable to wear around. Incidentally, if anyone HAS shot a hog with a .44 round ball, I'd be very interested to learn what the outcome was! Whether the hog was coming at you, and if one ball stopped him? Theonly tales (True!) I have heard about Wild Hog Shooting have come from Australia, where some friends of mine went over to the eastern states! Only one of them went hunting with a pistol, a .44Magnum, and his shot did kill the pig. It was however a rather hairy experience. He was crawling through a tunnel in the very thick brush, and met Mr. Pig face to face at pointblank range. He said he didn't know who was the most surprised! Him or the Pig! One shot put paid to Porky, but he slid towards my friend until he was, "Close enough to kiss!" But he had very bad breath, so my friend passed on the opportunity! Johnnie Roper,Alias:Gunslinger9378.

Title: Re: I reject using wads in a revolver for these reasons
Post by: AZshooter on July 22, 2013, 08:11:24 PM

Just bought a 12 pack of jumbo roll, 2 ply wad material on sale for $4.99 over at Albertsons last weekend. 1 sheet will make 2 .44 wads or 4 .36 wads and are simple to use by just folding up a square around a little dab of stiff ball lube. Cheaper than felt wads & easier to make. I've got enough wad material to make enough for several lifetimes.

I use a stiff blend of beeswax & tallow and there's no olive oil or nothing to squeeze out & contaminate the powder.

Title: Re: I reject using wads in a revolver for these reasons
Post by: Saranac Sam on July 22, 2013, 09:05:51 PM

AZ are you talking toilet paper? Because I've thought the same thing. ])M

Title: Re: I reject using wads in a revolver for these reasons
Post by: Pustic on July 23, 2013, 11:15:19 AM

You wanna wipe your bottom with balsa wood, I think we would all be fascinated to hear your test results (pictures or it didn't happen)

Title: Re: I reject using wads in a revolver for these reasons
Post by: Gunslinger9378 on July 23, 2013, 09:27:06 PM

"

John Wayne Toilet Tissue. - It's rough, It's Tough, and it doesn't take crap off anyone!"

I bought a roll of this stuff at a Festival of The West one year, Threw the paper away, but framed the wrapper and it hangs in my bathroom to this day! Gives visitors a chuckle if they have to use my facilities while they are here! By the way, as an aside: If shooting for self defense, mix some garlic with your Over The Ball Lube, and see if taking this tip from the Mafia, helps anyone you shoot die from Blood Poisening! (Should you have the misfortune to miss the Sternum, Heart, or Liver!")

Johnnie Roper,Alias:Gunslinger9378.

Title: Re: I reject using wads in a revolver for these reasons
Post by: ofitg on July 23, 2013, 09:53:14 PM

People also make wads from that "paper mache" egg carton material.

Title: Re: I reject using wads in a revolver for these reasons
Post by: Saranac Sam on July 23, 2013, 09:55:15 PM

By the way, as an aside: If shooting for self defense, mix some garlic with your Over The Ball Lube, and see if taking this tip from the Mafia, helps anyone you shoot die from Blood Poisening! (Should you have the misfortune to miss the Sternum, Heart, or Liver!")

Johnnie Roper,Alias:Gunslinger9378.

I wonder who, and why, was the first person to think that one up? Vampire Slayers, apparently.

Title: Re: I reject using wads in a revolver for these reasons
Post by: Smokin_Gun on July 23, 2013, 10:53:15 PM

If I had to choose between Wads or Grease I'd choose Wads, but I make my own Lube Pills. I've used it all in 30 years ... Crisco to Axle grease ... punched out cardboard egg cartons to wooly wads. Make my own lube and my Lube Pills work better than anything else for me... don't drop loaded pistols with slippery hands or half a dozen caps to put one on a cylinder ... Use what ya want, and I will too }), {?( {L*

Title: Re: I reject using wads in a revolver for these reasons
Post by: ssb73q on July 24, 2013, 01:27:36 PM

Hi, you may find this old internet thread interesting:

http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=198561

Regards,Richard

Title: Re: I reject using wads in a revolver for these reasons
Post by: Bushranger on July 25, 2013, 07:02:55 AM

Stop it Kituwa ,now I got sore ribs )L$

Title: Re: I reject using wads in a revolver for these reasons
Post by: Hewy on September 17, 2013, 10:11:22 AM

Some of you might know I am the new rider in town, and was readin this last 6 pages to find a resonobleanswer to stuffin the powder hole with greez.................... ^y% I'm walkin away from this one ???Capt Hewy {?(ps Got to admit ,good reading {L*

Title: Re: I reject using wads in a revolver for these reasons
Post by: ofitg on September 17, 2013, 11:26:32 AM

Hewy, there seem to be two different camps - the biggest camp is populated by people who shoot their cap & ball revolvers purely for recreation, and they aren't too worried about the prospect of a lubed wad ruining their powder over a period of several days (or weeks). They never leave their revolvers loaded that long.

There are a few people who make up a different camp - people like Johnnie Roper (aka Gunslinger 9378) who rely on their percussion revolvers for self protection. These people want to be certain that the pistol roars every time they drop the hammer.

Title: Re: I reject using wads in a revolver for these reasons
Post by: Saranac Sam on September 17, 2013, 01:28:28 PM

I'm in the first camp, I shoot these for recreation, however I don't doubt at all that they can be reliable self-defense. We hear the story that Wild Bill Hickok shot his 51's every morning and then reloaded them for the day. I speculate that he was constantly checking the quality control of his reloading system. JMHO Like a knife, the best firearm is the one you have in your hand. It can buy you time and space to get to something better.

Title: Re: I reject using wads in a revolver for these reasons
Post by: Hewy on September 17, 2013, 01:38:41 PM

The major take away from all of this is our abilities to experimentand subsequently settle on works best.I do enjoy the different opinions and ideas, without a shoot out occuring &j(What I conclude here as always, there are more than one way to skin a cat.Now what's that about egg cartons for wads? :)

{?(

Title: Re: I reject using wads in a revolver for these reasons
Post by: ofitg on September 17, 2013, 01:47:20 PM

Some eggs still come packaged in the old-fashioned "cardboard" containers.... shredded paper, molded & bonded somehow, similar to paper mache.

Some people prefer the egg-carton material over felt for making wads..... when I played around with it, it seemed to me that the egg-carton material was a bit easier to punch out into discs; the felt discs were usually kinda ragged around the edges.

Title: Re: I reject using wads in a revolver for these reasons
Post by: Saranac Sam on September 17, 2013, 02:12:29 PM

As a new Remington shooter, I find no joy because I can't ram the ball all the way down on top of a 24 grain load. I don't have that problem with the Colt. Experienced Rem shooters are telling me to use a wad to make up the air space, which we don't want. I can also use a bench press rammer to get the ball down on top of the powder. Now here's the question: Is it possible the Remington was intended to take a much heavier powder load, like 30-40 grains? It certainly has the frame for a heavy load. That could be compacted with the standard rammer. Any thoughts?

I know, Johnnie Roper will say Yes! (T^

Title: Re: I reject using wads in a revolver for these reasons
Post by: KapundBall on September 17, 2013, 02:38:23 PM

Sam - I have shot several cylinders of my Uberti 1858 with 30 grs of T7 under ball and, while it is rather brisk, nothing suggested it was at risk of damaging parts. Nevertheless, I prefer the results with 25 grs.

In the event that you do not wish to use a lubed wad to make up chamber space in a lighter load, cornmeal does an excellent job as filler. It has a consistency like 1.5 - 2 FG powder and is completely neutral. I make paper cartridges and load powder charge, then cornmeal to desired level, then an overpowder milk carton card. I load with a lube wad over that, but no reason one would have to if one likes hard fouling residue for some reason. The paper cartridge just drops into the chamber, no fuss, no mess. There is some compression from twisting, so the cornmeal filler stays in place and doesn't mix in with the powder.

Title: Re: I reject using wads in a revolver for these reasons
Post by: kituwa on September 17, 2013, 02:39:21 PM

Sam, i think its because the conical was used back then more than a round ball. You can use cream of wheat on top of the powder instead of a wad and it works real good. Or a dip of Copenhagen ->i

Title: Re: I reject using wads in a revolver for these reasons
Post by: Saranac Sam on September 17, 2013, 03:11:48 PM

Sam, i think its because the conical was used back then more than a round ball. You can use cream of wheat on top of the powder instead of a wad and it works real good. Or a dip of Copenhagen ->i

K, that brings up the next question: Maybe anything could be used as a wad between powder and ball? Paper, fabric, moose turd pie, anything that will take up the air space so we don't get unexpected explosions?

Title: Re: I reject using wads in a revolver for these reasons
Post by: Pustic on September 17, 2013, 03:43:34 PM

One square of toilet paper would fill four chambers on a cylinder, maybe all six. :9)

Title: Re: I reject using wads in a revolver for these reasons
Post by: Saranac Sam on September 17, 2013, 06:15:22 PM

As a new Remington shooter, I find no joy because I can't ram the ball all the way down on top of a 24 grain load. I don't have that problem with the Colt. Experienced Rem shooters are telling me to use a wad to make up the air space, which we don't want. I can also use a bench press rammer to get the ball down on top of the powder. Now here's the question: Is it possible the Remington was intended to take a much heavier powder load, like 30-40 grains? It certainly has the frame for a heavy load. That could be compacted with the standard rammer. Any thoughts?

I know, Johnnie Roper will say Yes! (T^

Yes the Remington with the added top strap is designed for heavier loads.If you want to you can use a file or dremel to remove a minute amount of metal from the frame allowing the ramrod lever to travel a bit farther. Or a wad or a tad more powder.

Title: Re: I reject using wads in a revolver for these reasons
Post by: Saranac Sam on September 17, 2013, 08:10:27 PM

As a new Remington shooter, I find no joy because I can't ram the ball all the way down on top of a 24 grain load. I don't have that problem with the Colt. Experienced Rem shooters are telling me to use a wad to make up the air space, which we don't want. I can also use a bench press rammer to get the ball down on top of the powder. Now here's the question: Is it possible the Remington was intended to take a much heavier powder load, like 30-40 grains? It certainly has the frame for a heavy load. That could be compacted with the standard rammer. Any thoughts?

I know, Johnnie Roper will say Yes! (T^

Yes the Remington with the added top strap is designed for heavier loads.If you want to you can use a file or dremel to remove a minute amount of metal from the frame allowing the ramrod lever to travel a bit farther. Or a wad or a tad more powder.

Thank you DD4, I have thought the same thing about modifying the loading lever to get a little more reach.

I'm not really interested in loading magnum rounds in the CBs, I have other things for that. For economy, I like the 20-30 grains loads for plinking and apparently better accuracy. I like loading and ramming in the pistol whenever possible, but I also now have a table top cylinder loader so it's not a big issue. I was just curious why the loading lever on the Rem does not go all the way down when loading something like 24 grains.

Thanks, SS

Title: Re: I reject using wads in a revolver for these reasons
Post by: Pustic on September 17, 2013, 08:41:18 PM

As a new Remington shooter, I find no joy because I can't ram the ball all the way down on top of a 24 grain load. I don't have that problem with the Colt. Experienced Rem shooters are telling me to use a wad to make up the air space, which we don't want. I can also use a bench press rammer to get the ball down on top of the powder. Now here's the question: Is it possible the Remington was intended to take a much heavier powder load, like 30-40 grains? It certainly has the frame for a heavy load. That could be compacted with the standard rammer. Any thoughts?

I know, Johnnie Roper will say Yes! (T^

Ram the balls as far as they will go with the loading lever, then seat them with either a piece of a dowel or a sort starter. :)

Title: Re: I reject using wads in a revolver for these reasons
Post by: Saranac Sam on September 17, 2013, 09:07:42 PM

As a new Remington shooter, I find no joy because I can't ram the ball all the way down on top of a 24 grain load. I don't have that problem with the Colt. Experienced Rem shooters are telling me to use a wad to make up the air space, which we don't want. I can also use a bench press rammer to get the ball down on top of the powder. Now here's the question: Is it possible the Remington was intended to take a much heavier powder load, like 30-40 grains? It certainly has the frame for a heavy load. That could be compacted with the standard rammer. Any thoughts?

I know, Johnnie Roper will say Yes! (T^

Ram the balls as far as they will go with the loading lever, then seat them with either a piece of a dowel or a sort starter. :)

Right, that's what I have been doing. Now I have a table top loader. But I still check them occasionally with a short starter. ;)

Title: Re: I reject using wads in a revolver for these reasons
Post by: Pustic on September 17, 2013, 09:50:22 PM

Us old timers think alike. ])M

Title: Re: I reject using wads in a revolver for these reasons
Post by: Dellbert on September 17, 2013, 09:51:44 PM

I never had any trouble with wads or loading 20 25 gr loads in my remmies. (^h I must be the odd bean on the pole round here. )L$ One thing I'm just about sure of is chain fires most likely comes from the nipple end. I never heard of wads over powder till I started reading about them on different gun forums. At the time I was just putting a little lube over the ball and it was a little messy but didn't really cause me no real trouble. The first was Crisco over balls sure made each shot smell good )L$ Then the boro butter over the balls ain't figured what that smells like yet, oh yay smells like a poot. )L$ Then I got around to the forums and people talking about the wads, and home made lubes. The wads seem to be a lot less messy, and work pretty good for me. Haven't got round to making my own lube pills yet, but I have everything I need to give it a try. As far as shooting go's nothing takes the place of range time, and getting to know your gun, Guess that holds true for any gun you want to shoot, and shoot well. You fellas don't need me to tell you that. For the time being I'm using the wads over the powder. It's true I don't really leave these guns loaded much longer than a week or so but when I go to fire them they do go boom. I'd like to give Johnnies way of loading a try with the 10% real bp and top it off with Pyrodex. If a person was going to use one of these pistols for defense more than likely you shouldn't be more than 7' away from the target. It would be hard to explain why I would be shooting at someone 25 yrds away don't you recon so? (^h I don't know it all. Live and learn. =K*

Title: Re: I reject using wads in a revolver for these reasons
Post by: Classanr on September 17, 2013, 10:24:39 PM

OP loved dropping stones in the water.12 days 'o postin' as much as he ought'r.Then lightnin' struck, 'n the guy was gone,But this here topic just ripples right on.

Lots of useful info and points to consider, all in one place.Thanks, fellas, for posting. I'll keep on readin', if you keep on post'n!

Classanr

Title: Re: I reject using wads in a revolver for these reasons
Post by: SourMashII on December 06, 2019, 09:43:55 PM

I dunno how many wads you can get out of an old lady hat but this is the best place to buy hard felt for wads. http://www.durofelt.com/image_26.html

Thank you for giving me a place to order felt shipping free! How and what do you use for lube sir? Hawk78

Title: Re: I reject using wads in a revolver for these reasons
Post by: G Dog on January 01, 2020, 07:01:34 PM

I've made a few orders with them for sheets of that and so don't reject wads. Ideal product for our uses. Makes wads dirt cheap.

Title: Re: I reject using wads in a revolver for these reasons
Post by: Retreever on January 02, 2020, 07:36:18 AM

Slow day so I may as well chime in here. I have the same issue as most others with lubing the cylinder mouth - everything gets slippery. I started using the Traditions wads which I quickly found out is not an insignificant expense.

So I have opted to try making my own wads, assembled the ingredients for the Gatofeo #1 Lubricant and followed the instructions, ordered the following https://www.amazon.ca/gp/product/B07N8WQS6V/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1 felt sheets (https://www.amazon.ca/gp/product/B07N8WQS6V/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1 felt sheets) from Amazon . I got approx 300 wads from a single sheet and looking forward to giving them a work in the spring.

Retreever

Title: Re: I reject using wads in a revolver for these reasons
Post by: prof marvel on January 02, 2020, 01:49:13 PM

Slow day so I may as well chime in here. I have the same issue as most others with lubing the cylinder mouth - everything gets slippery. I started using the Traditions wads which I quickly found out is not an insignificant expense.

So I have opted to try making my own wads, assembled the ingredients for the Gatofeo #1 Lubricant and followed the instructions, ordered the following https://www.amazon.ca/gp/product/B07N8WQS6V/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1 felt sheets (https://www.amazon.ca/gp/product/B07N8WQS6V/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1 felt sheets) from Amazon . I got approx 300 wads from a single sheet and looking forward to giving them a work in the spring.

Retreever

My Good Retriever -

These you linked to are "High Quality Acrylic Craft Felt " .

In days of yore, we had been admonishedyelled at advised to only use real wool felt. I believe Wool Wadding is said to be less likely to catch fire/ hold embers and cause a brush fire, like cotton patches will, and won't melt and leave plastic in the barrel.

Thus i am vey interested in how they work for you, if any are melted, smoking, etc !

yhsprof marvel

Title: Re: I reject using wads in a revolver for these reasons
Post by: Retreever on January 02, 2020, 03:33:29 PM

Slow day so I may as well chime in here. I have the same issue as most others with lubing the cylinder mouth - everything gets slippery. I started using the Traditions wads which I quickly found out is not an insignificant expense.

So I have opted to try making my own wads, assembled the ingredients for the Gatofeo #1 Lubricant and followed the instructions, ordered the following https://www.amazon.ca/gp/product/B07N8WQS6V/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1 felt sheets (https://www.amazon.ca/gp/product/B07N8WQS6V/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1 felt sheets) from Amazon . I got approx 300 wads from a single sheet and looking forward to giving them a work in the spring.

Retreever

My Good Retriever -

These you linked to are "High Quality Acrylic Craft Felt " .

In days of yore, we had been admonishedyelled at advised to only use real wool felt. I believe Wool Wadding is said to be less likely to catch fire/ hold embers and cause a brush fire, like cotton patches will, and won't melt and leave plastic in the barrel.

Thus i am vey interested in how they work for you, if any are melted, smoking, etc !

yhsprof marvel

Thanks Professor, I actually wondered about that I will definitely be watching for those issues. Appreciate the heads up.

Retreever

Title: Re: I reject using wads in a revolver for these reasons
Post by: Hawg on January 02, 2020, 04:47:25 PM

Slow day so I may as well chime in here. I have the same issue as most others with lubing the cylinder mouth - everything gets slippery. I started using the Traditions wads which I quickly found out is not an insignificant expense.

So I have opted to try making my own wads, assembled the ingredients for the Gatofeo #1 Lubricant and followed the instructions, ordered the following https://www.amazon.ca/gp/product/B07N8WQS6V/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1 felt sheets (https://www.amazon.ca/gp/product/B07N8WQS6V/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1 felt sheets) from Amazon . I got approx 300 wads from a single sheet and looking forward to giving them a work in the spring.

Retreever

You're not going to like those wads. Get hard felt from Duro-Felt and don't look back. http://www.durofelt.com/image_26.html They're closed til Feb 7th tho.

Title: Re: I reject using wads in a revolver for these reasons
Post by: prof marvel on January 02, 2020, 05:07:17 PM

Thanks Hawg! That's the stuff, hard felt from Duro-Felt. the page you linked to even has tallow and lanolin!

yhsprof mumbles

Someone had pointed me to this web site before but unfortunately shipping cost to Canada is prohibitive I guess I need to find a Canadian source for the same material.

Thanks, Retreever

Title: Re: I reject using wads in a revolver for these reasons
Post by: Fingers McGee on January 03, 2020, 12:33:30 PM

I tried the 'make my own' wads route a long time ago. Too muck like work and the lube was messy. I've been using prelubed wads from Sage Outfitters for many years without the mess and work of homemade. Their wads are $44.99 a thousand and I highly recommend them.

https://www.sageoutfitters.com/Muzzleloader.html

Title: Re: I reject using wads in a revolver for these reasons
Post by: G Dog on January 03, 2020, 08:10:24 PM

Commercial pre-lubed wads all on their own never seem to have enough lube to do the job of actually preventing bind up and if a home lube recipe makes a mess then you just need to increase the viscosity. Sagebrush beats hell out of Cabelas and whoever for wad price but at better than a nickel a pop they still ain’t exactly cheap. A roll of DuroFelt with a punch & hand sledge beats all. Nearly three times as many at half the price.

When wackin felt remember to use your off-hand, too. It's good forearm exercise.