That's a lot of hollow point lead for domestic use. There are other mass ammunition purchases being made by government departments & agencies which - you'd look at and wonder... Why the fuck do they need to buy ammunition?

This topic has been done to death on "another forum" I may (or may not) tend to frequent. When you look at all the different agencies under the "Homeland Security" blanket, you have to include: Customs and Border Patrol, U.S. Coast Guard, Secret Service, Immigrations and Customs Service, TSA, NCIS, AFOSI, USFWS, USFS, IRS, USNPS, BLM, USMFS, BIA, VA Police, Pentagon Police, and FPS, not to mention the Postal Inspectors... the fact is that there are thousands upon thousands of gun-toters in Federal service. Add in the idea that that contract with ATK basically just gives DHS the right to purchase "up to 450 million" rounds of ammunition at a specified price, at any time up until the contract time period ends...

People using guns kill people you idiot... Ive never heard of a gun getting up on its own walking into a public place and firing itself killing people. If you dont know what you are fucking talking about shut the fuck up.

well, since we're about to devolve again. you're a jerk. neener neener. i'm going to tell you mom on you. you are in soooooooooooooooo much trouble now! :)

I edited it is that better. I apologize for over reacting when I first saw the thread. In my opinion and in accordance with common sense that is an idiotic statement. Guns do not kill people, the person holding the gun and pulling the trigger is the one who does the killing. A gun is a tool just like a hammer or a knife or an axe. If some one is murdered with one of those items no one blames the item they blame the person using the item, but when it comes to guns for some reason people think that they are cognitive things that can choose to kill on their own.

This topic has been done to death on "another forum" I may (or may not) tend to frequent. When you look at all the different agencies under the "Homeland Security" blanket, you have to include: Customs and Border Patrol, U.S. Coast Guard, Secret Service, Immigrations and Customs Service, TSA, NCIS, AFOSI, USFWS, USFS, IRS, USNPS, BLM, USMFS, BIA, VA Police, Pentagon Police, and FPS, not to mention the Postal Inspectors... the fact is that there are thousands upon thousands of gun-toters in Federal service. Add in the idea that that contract with ATK basically just gives DHS the right to purchase "up to 450 million" rounds of ammunition at a specified price, at any time up until the contract time period ends...

You need to loosen up the tin foil a bit, WMM.

1.4 billion rounds of ammo ordered over the next 5 years - not 450,000,000 - almost three times that amount. The Business Insider report was from early last year. The total has been revised since then.

How many thousands upon thousands of gun toting lawmen are going to be brushing up on their aim, Nudes? Can you give me an approximate amount of people so we can do some simple division?

Hollow point rounds? Aren't those a bit more expensive than regular rounds one would use for mere target shooting? What are hollow point rounds used for on the target range?

I use the cheapest birdshot shells I can afford to shoot clays. 50 shots a night is a busy evening. I know another guy who claims to blow through a small fortune in rounds for several handguns (some weekends) he's a reloader...and it's still expensive for him to go that route.

Hollow point rounds & 1,400,000,000 of them?

Personally, I could care less... If the government of Bush/Cheney - or Obama/Biden - or - the next (pick your poison) administration issued orders to quell the rioting and oppressed feeling 49% which didn't vote for them - I'm not taking up my shotgun or .357 against the Missouri or Kansas National Guard.

I'm just saying - this is where some of the anxiety is coming from.Obscenity is the last refuge of an inarticulate motherfucker.

I edited it is that better. I apologize for over reacting when I first saw the thread. In my opinion and in accordance with common sense that is an idiotic statement. Guns do not kill people, the person holding the gun and pulling the trigger is the one who does the killing. A gun is a tool just like a hammer or a knife or an axe. If some one is murdered with one of those items no one blames the item they blame the person using the item, but when it comes to guns for some reason people think that they are cognitive things that can choose to kill on their own.

and yet, without that tool, he'd be simply making his finger move, something that, unless you're a kung fu master, a vampire, or an alien, won't really kill people. now, if you put a gun back in his hands, and that finger happens to be on a trigger, people die. it's quite simple.

ok, how is this, so you feel better. let's ban all the people who own guns - that way we can stop all the nonsense of guns don't kill people, people kill people - i'd be perfectly happy shipping all of them down to antarctica with their guns so they can shoot each other to their heart's delight.

btw, unless you're a total idiot (a distinct possibility), you know you're just using hyperbolic rhetoric (look it up - google is your friend) and that the poster's point was not that guns are sentient creatures capable of making decisions or with morals and ethics. of course, you might not realize that, in which case, i'm not sure how you managed to pass the Lush IQ test and become a member here. :)

Joined: 4/30/2012Posts: 329Location: under bright lights, United States

sprite wrote:

and yet, without that tool, he'd be simply making his finger move, something that, unless you're a kung fu master, a vampire, or an alien, won't really kill people. now, if you put a gun back in his hands, and that finger happens to be on a trigger, people die. it's quite simple.

ok, how is this, so you feel better. let's ban all the people who own guns - that way we can stop all the nonsense of guns don't kill people, people kill people - i'd be perfectly happy shipping all of them down to antarctica with their guns so they can shoot each other to their heart's delight.

btw, unless you're a total idiot (a distinct possibility), you know you're just using hyperbolic rhetoric (look it up - google is your friend) and that the poster's point was not that guns are sentient creatures capable of making decisions or with morals and ethics. of course, you might not realize that, in which case, i'm not sure how you managed to pass the Lush IQ test and become a member here. :)

the NRA is a lobbying unit for arms and weapons manufacturers who use the 2nd Amendment to sell and proliferate arms and munitions. LaPierre takes home close to a million USD in salary each year!! number of times the 2nd Amendment has been exercised to protect against govt tyranny..ZERO. number of gun deaths since Sandy Hook Elementary: 1478; annual gun deaths in the US: 32,000 and rising. this is the highest than any other OECD country!! furthermore, the US is not the only country which is a democracy, republic, etc. in fact by Nordic standards, the US is a cannibalistic, 3rd world country. a terrorist gets on a plane with a shoe bomb and the US comes close to passing a cavity search, yet 32,000 people die each year from gun violence and we convolute the facts, subscribe to drivel and conspiracies, and propose to do nothing!! you might want to check out some comparative data in the links below before proffering unsubstantiated opinions.

"don't blame the tool, blame the criminal"....yet, i ask you in all earnestness, how many children would Adam Lanza have mass murdered/killed if he had a knife or a hammer? if people are still holding onto their 2nd Amendment defense diatribe, go ask David Koresh and the Branch Davidians how they fared in the fight against the US govt. so i say, take up your ak-47's, m-11's, SCR's...i will bring some popcorn and watch you take on Hellsfire missile strikes from Predator drones and see who is obliterated lol. since we are using the 2nd Amendment defense, can i have a Predator drone instead of an ak-47;) lol

Here are a few thoughts, if you want to ban guns in the US do it the right way and repeal the second ammendment. Short of that you end up with a lot of name calling.

Rather than invent new laws, enforce the ones currently on the books. In Massachusetts anyone caught with an unregistered gun is supposed to serve a mandatory year. Number of prosecutions on that last year.....less than 10.

The puurpose of the second ammmendment was and is to protect the individual from tyranny. Tyranny has many forms, home invasion, a neighborhood full of gang bangers, corruption in its many forms.

People with mental illness deserve help, sending a disturbed person out on to the street with a prescription is not help.

The vast majority of gun murders in the US is done by gang bangers to gang bangers.

In the US a mentally ill patient can not be forced to take medication, unless convicted of a crime; even then their are limitations.

The vast majority of "massacres" is done by persons with mental illness who are on, or are supposed to be on prescribed medications. Disturbed people having manic episodes do not just do violence with guns, check out your local hospitals burn unit and ask a nurse about his/her patients. The majority are mentally ill set ablaze by other mentally ill.

The worst massacre in US history was committed by a disturbed man with a knife in a school. Sometime in the past few years a disturbed man in China killed in the neighborhood of 20 in a kindergarten with a knife.

For the record, i've given up on this argument. minds aren't going to be changed; everyone is simply going to try to find ways to look superior while posting their opinions (myself included). That said, i look forward to simply doing what too many others seem intent upon doing; belittling people for simply having a different viewpoint on the subject. this is going to be fun! :)

1.4 billion rounds of ammo ordered over the next 5 years - not 450,000,000 - almost three times that amount. The Business Insider report was from early last year. The total has been revised since then.

How many thousands upon thousands of gun toting lawmen are going to be brushing up on their aim, Nudes? Can you give me an approximate amount of people so we can do some simple division?

Hollow point rounds? Aren't those a bit more expensive than regular rounds one would use for mere target shooting? What are hollow point rounds used for on the target range?

I use the cheapest birdshot shells I can afford to shoot clays. 50 shots a night is a busy evening. I know another guy who claims to blow through a small fortune in rounds for several handguns (some weekends) he's a reloader...and it's still expensive for him to go that route.

Hollow point rounds & 1,400,000,000 of them?

Personally, I could care less... If the government of Bush/Cheney - or Obama/Biden - or - the next (pick your poison) administration issued orders to quell the rioting and oppressed feeling 49% which didn't vote for them - I'm not taking up my shotgun or .357 against the Missouri or Kansas National Guard.

I'm just saying - this is where some of the anxiety is coming from.

I haven't seen the 1.4 billion number anywhere, but it really doesn't matter; again, that just commits the manufacturer to a specific price. It's not an actual order. I haven't got a clue how many trigger-pullers are attached to DHS. Last estimate I saw put Customs and Border Protection alone at up over 45,000. How many Coasties are there? They all qualify several times a year. DHS also runs FLETC, the training center for every Federal single agency. Each academy class will burn up probably close to or just over 10,000 rounds per student, and they have multiple classes running simultaneously at any given time. It's just good practice to do your training with the same ammo you're going to be carrying on the street, despite the cost.

I look at like shopping at Costco. You buy in bulk, and you get better pricing.

"Here are a few thoughts, if you want to ban guns in the US do it the right way and repeal the second amendment. Short of that you end up with a lot of name calling."

So, how about it? Do we continue belaboured talk while people die for peoples interpretations? Or, do we focus on an antiquated version of what the current paradigm is?

There's always talk about leaving a better world for our kids than we had. So is that world filled with guns and violence to meet violence? Or, do we find a way to slowly relieve ourselves of our confrontational past? Focus the millions, dare I say billions, making arms or spend it on neighborhood programs and revitalizing those communities and ALL occupants within? And, spend that money implementing programs to keep youth off streets, teach them how not to go for the quick buck, and live up to our esteemed inheritance of true humanity?

Sure, it's like putting a petal into the nozzle of a Kent State trooper. But, we are all human beings, and the only argument thus far for guns, and arguably, for unnecessary armaments is we don't believe, and don't want to invest in our fellow man/woman because we can't change.

let us try the argument a different way: Let's make guns illegal, a criminal attacks you with a gun because he knows you (a law abiding citizen will not carry one). Now what?

One: unless he knows me, he has no idea if I abide the laws or not.

Two: if he knew I had a gun, what makes you think that would make a difference if he thought he could get the drop on me? for the record, I am 5’1” and on the petite side. I make a juicy target for people with that mentality – I certainly don’t look like I’d be able to defend myself even if I had a gun.

Three: last June I was sexually assaulted. I carry pepper spray. I am usually very aware of my surroundings. I let my guard down. I didn’t have a chance to use my pepper spray. I wouldn’t have had a chance to use a gun if I’d carried one. Had I been carrying him, he’d now have a gun for the next crime he commits. He might anyway, seeing they are easy to get. At least I can live with the knowledge that he’s not armed because of me.

Or, he might have shot me and left me to die. I was stabbed twice, for the record. One of the wounds was fairly serious, the other just painful and scary as fuck.

Four: Guns make you feel more secure. That’s never a good thing. You let your guard down more often cause you DO feel secure. I can recall a lot of instances in my life where being paranoid and afraid probably kept me from being assaulted.

Five: I can also recall a couple of times I would have liked to shoot someone. I’m glad I didn’t, even if they might have deserved it.

Six: I can live with being raped better than I could live with shooting an innocent man, woman, or child.

Seven: you ask, now what? I pray that he only steals my money and doesn’t do worse. If he does, I’m screwed, perhaps literally. I survived it once, I will survive it again. Maybe, if I’m lucky, I pepper spray the bastard and take him down. Never under estimate me again. I will fuck you up.

Afterwards, I call the cops and hope that they catch the prick and put him away. My case is pretty much dead by now, but I did pursue it and I still hope that one day they bring the guy to justice. That’s the law’s job, not mine.

ok liberals climb down off your high horse before you get snached off it. guns dont kill people, people raised by people who trefuse to take responsibility for anything. do and just because the govt. says turn in your assault rifles and guns you think criminals and gangbangers are going to just run and turn in there aks & mac10s .... ummm no . so just a hypothetica if i pull a .45 on u and kill u did i kill you or the gun ??????? if ignorance is bliss...

As first posts go, mmurray, yours is one of the most asinine I've ever seen. We really don't talk to each other that way around here. Feel free to express your opinion, but please keep the explicit epithets out of them, okay?

ok liberals climb down off your high horse before you get snached off it. guns dont kill people, people raised by people who trefuse to take responsibility for anything. do and just because the govt. says turn in your assault rifles and guns you think criminals and gangbangers are going to just run and turn in there aks & mac10s .... ummm no . so just a hypothetica if i pull a .45 on u and kill u did i kill you or the gun ??????? if ignorance is bliss...

I feel sorry for the one or two intelligent gun-owners debating in here, cause they **** must be embarrassed that people like you share their opinions. how about this, if you ****ing pulled a .45 on me, hypothetically, i would beat you to within an inch of your life, spit on you and ****ing laugh. here's another hypothetical for you. if i ****ing beat your brains out for being a stupid mother ****ing ***hole, would it affect you at all? i am so ****ing sick of ***holes puking up every ****ing thing they're told by Rush and Glen and whoever the **** they listen to on those ****ing radio shows where the guys sound like they're about to have a stroke from screaming in the mic. why don't you try having an original thought, just once, to see what it's like and then, grow some balls and get some manners and put it out there in a civilized way and actually have a discussion with the idea that perhaps, we can fix this mess in a way that benefits everyone. **** you, i don't even know why i'm wasting my breath here.

ok liberals climb down off your high horse before you get snached off it. guns dont kill people, people raised by people who trefuse to take responsibility for anything. do and just because the govt. says turn in your assault rifles and guns you think criminals and gangbangers are going to just run and turn in there aks & mac10s .... ummm no . so just a hypothetica if i pull a .45 on u and kill u did i kill you or the gun ??????? if ignorance is bliss...

If you pull a .45 on me, when all I've done is disagree with you, that makes you a criminal. Plain and simple. I suppose right now you're only a potential criminal, but that may be a poor assumption given the above. You're exactly the kind of person anyone, liberal or conservative should fear owning a gun.

But... These two guys weren't dispatched using forks, butter knives or a bag of bowling balls. They were actually said to be trying to help a fellow veteran.Obscenity is the last refuge of an inarticulate motherfucker.

ok liberals climb down off your high horse before you get snached off it. guns dont kill people, people raised by people who trefuse to take responsibility for anything. do and just because the govt. says turn in your assault rifles and guns you think criminals and gangbangers are going to just run and turn in there aks & mac10s .... ummm no . so just a hypothetica if i pull a .45 on u and kill u did i kill you or the gun ??????? if ignorance is bliss...

Hypothetical?

You would hypothetically be a murderer, and you would have committed the crime with a gun.

Also, including but not limited to mmurray420: is there any significance to shirtless dudes on lush being pro-gun? Its uncanny.

No, they actually were trying to help a fellow combat veteran who was suffering from PTSD.

They were said to actually trying to be helpful?

In hindsight, maybe you don't wanna take a guy suffering PTSD out to shoot off a coupla hundred rounds to let off some steam, perhaps?

If I were trying to help someone suffering extreme stress, I doubt that putting some loaded guns in his hands would be something I'd think of as the 1st, 2nd or third best therapeutic tool or process to alleviate the guys emotional overload/pain/suffering.

Although I do find shooting clays - relaxing...I'm not suffering PTSD either.

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