ariadnee wrote:It's interesting that you see that Sam seems to get his way more than Edward does. I thought that Edward got his way an awful lot, but maybe I should re-read Eclipse with this in mind and see how much he gets thwarted by Bella, Jacob, his family, etc.

I think the ways I see Edward not getting his own way are kind of generalised - he gets his way a couple of times physically restraining Bella over Jake, but in the end he loses out and has to accept that she's going to see him regardless; he tries to involve his family in keeping Bella away from Jake, but ultimately Alice doesn't stop her phoning Jacob and Bella runs away from them to be with him, without the Cullens doing a great deal about it (not, perhaps, that they could have); Jacob sleeping with his arms around Bella, despite Edward wanting him to stay outside the tent.Whereas Sam, more in Breaking Dawn - having the ultimate rule on not attacking the Cullens, and then having the say on going for it and attacking Renesmee and the Cullens, only stopped by Jacob's rebellion.I guess I hadn't picked up too much on the way Edward wins because he uses such nice ways of persuading Bella, lol - 'distracting' her, and taking her on a mini-holiday, as opposed to straightforward force that Sam uses, like you said. Or maybe I'm being slightly biased in favour of Edward... But I hadn't realised how much they have in common, either!

'Out of nowhere, she was perched on Jasper's back, her lips at his neck.Jasper chuckled, shaking his head."You truly are one frightening little monster."'~APPC~

So as much as I love Leah I can’t bring myself to hate Sam. Do I think he’s a coward? Yes. Do I think he took the easy way out? Yes. I mean, I wonder if he even tried to fight the imprint. If you love someone you’re suppose to fight for them so why didn’t he fight for Leah? I also think he is a bit selfish. I mean with the whole ‘Lee Lee ‘ thing. I’m certain Jared just didn’t decide to say that himself. Its almost like Sam can’t let Leah go again. I wish he’d stop feeling bad about the situation. It’s like “Don’t apologize Sam. Make it better. Make it easier”. That’s Sam the human. But there’s Sam the wolf who I have heaps of respect for. He did everything on his own. Plus, he had to be there to help the other boys after they phased. Deal with their emotions and problems with it. For Sam it’s like pack first, himself later. Then as much as I disapprove of his and Emily’s relationship it’s obvious they are happy together. It’s cute in a sickly sweet way. I feel so bad for him. Having to look at her scars everyday and know that it was his fault. Life isn’t fair if you’re a wolf. I DO NOT like that he used his Alpha authority on Jacob but I understand. Sam’s in charge. Sam was doing what he thought was best for his people. Sam is just a man he can’t be perfect. He tries and he makes mistakes. Give the guy a break. The safety of his people lays on him and the pack. It cannot be easy to have the weight of the world, so to speak, on your shoulders. Every leech that gets by them is blood on their hands. If I was a wolf I’d be freaked out and threatened by the idea of half-vampire, half-human spawn. It could be completely psycho. Renesmee was totally an unknown. Who was to say she had to turn out all sweet and innocent? When you are a leader criticism for your decision can be your best friend or your worst enemy. You make a choice everyone agrees with you’re praised. Make a decision people disagree with you get hung on the cross. Sam did what he thought was right. Men aren’t perfect. Sam tries though.And this is NOT Sam’s burden to carry. It has ALWAYS been Jacobs. He just didn’t want to grasp his role as Alpha until it was convenient for him. (I LOVE Jacob. I’m totally team Jacob but just because I love him doesn’t mean he’s without faults). So I think Sam deserves more credit than he gets. He’s not such a bad guy. He just lives in tough circumstances.I will say that I prefer Sam the wolf to Sam the man though.

At the end of BD, what do you guys think will happen to the pack. Do you think that Sam will try to get Leah and the others back somehow, under his leadership? We know the Cullens aren't leaving and with Jacob's connection to Renesmee, he'll be staying around. How will it be to have two alphas in the same area? I know the alphas can choose to talk to each other mind to mind, but how often can a member of one pack go back and forth between alphas? I am just so curious to see how Sam would handle it, do you think he might step down as alpha to Jacob? It would be a great opportunity for him to stop phasing and be with Emily.

I am the Impulsive VampVixen.Thanks toSprtyGalandFryfor the AWESOME banner!

una wrote:At the end of BD, what do you guys think will happen to the pack. Do you think that Sam will try to get Leah and the others back somehow, under his leadership? We know the Cullens aren't leaving and with Jacob's connection to Renesmee, he'll be staying around. How will it be to have two alphas in the same area? I know the alphas can choose to talk to each other mind to mind, but how often can a member of one pack go back and forth between alphas? I am just so curious to see how Sam would handle it, do you think he might step down as alpha to Jacob? It would be a great opportunity for him to stop phasing and be with Emily.

That's a very good question. So many things could happen. Sam would try to unite the pack probably because he would see it as necessary for all of them to be together, but that would cause more drama and in the end Sam would have to accept that fact because like you said, eventually he would want to stop phasing and grow old along side Emily. There will probably be some conflicts that will come about with two alphas, mainly the whole combining the two packs vs. two separate ones.

una wrote:At the end of BD, what do you guys think will happen to the pack. Do you think that Sam will try to get Leah and the others back somehow, under his leadership? We know the Cullens aren't leaving and with Jacob's connection to Renesmee, he'll be staying around. How will it be to have two alphas in the same area? I know the alphas can choose to talk to each other mind to mind, but how often can a member of one pack go back and forth between alphas? I am just so curious to see how Sam would handle it, do you think he might step down as alpha to Jacob? It would be a great opportunity for him to stop phasing and be with Emily.

That's a very good question. So many things could happen. Sam would try to unite the pack probably because he would see it as necessary for all of them to be together, but that would cause more drama and in the end Sam would have to accept that fact because like you said, eventually he would want to stop phasing and grow old along side Emily. There will probably be some conflicts that will come about with two alphas, mainly the whole combining the two packs vs. two separate ones.

I'm sorry to be contrary, but I doubt that Sam would try to re-unite the pack. Like Jacob, he too is relatively new to the whole alpha thing, so he's learning as he goes, which is why he makes so many mistakes in Breaking Dawn. But I believe events showed him beyond a doubt that there will be two alphas in the area, regardless of what he thinks is best, and that he can't stop Jacob's pack from following Jacob if they choose. It's the new reality of things. I think he gets that.

Sam considers it his sacred duty to continue to protect the tribe, so until he feels that his duty is done, he'll continue to phase, Emily or no. If peace ensues, and the treaty with the Cullens holds for a long period of time, I guess he will consider retiring at some point. But I wouldn't bet on it for at least five years. Staying young while Emily grows older doesn't bother him any more than it bothered Edward to consider doing the same with Bella. No, he'll continue to protect the tribal lands, and allow Jacob's pack to protect the Cullen lands. I can't see them changing their arrangement any time soon.

Thanks for listening - Ariadnee

"None of us can choose where we will love." - Erik, from Susan Kay's Phantom

Despite how Sam is a JERK, I really like him. He is one of my fave characters. He is one of the characters that I wish I had more of a background on. It had to be hard on him having no father. I didn't like how he wanted to kill Bella and Nessie, but he was just coming from a protective place. All in all, he's great.

Anyone have a guess, or a source, that gives us a date or age when Sam would have first phased? Obviously, it was after the Cullens return to Forks in 2003, and well before Bella is found by Sam in 2005. Has anyone read any info on this? I am not even sure how much older than Jacob, Sam is to be honest. ???

Sam was 19 in Twilight; Emily was attacked around the time Bella came to Forks so he was a new wolf and hadn't gotten a handle on phasing yet. He also had to turn down the scholarship so he was at or near the end of his high school career. So, I figure he was about 18 when he first phased

suzzeeQ wrote:Sam was 19 in Twilight; Emily was attacked around the time Bella came to Forks so he was a new wolf and hadn't gotten a handle on phasing yet. He also had to turn down the scholarship so he was at or near the end of his high school career. So, I figure he was about 18 when he first phased

So awesome! Thank you thank you thank you!!I got a great answer in Twilight Q &A, that it had to be around 2004. So if he was 19 in Twilight, 2005, (what chapter did you find that in by the way?) then he would have been 18 in 2004 around the time he first phased. Thanks again.