I'm willing to put everything behind us for one and simple reason - to get back to trying to debate with you which n ever -actually- happened.

Recently xenophobia between the countries of the United Kingdom has been on the decrease except for an increase with Scottish on English attacks. I
blame this on the SNP, trying to drive a wedge right through what makes us strong which is being united.

What the SNP wants, is what the EU want. Dividing us will make us weaker. I don't think you understand here that the elite division tactics are
working like a charm! The United Kingdom Independence Party want what is best for our people.

Look at Japan, a proud country full of culture. Now look at the most heavily-oriented immigrant communities in the main cities in the UK, that isn't
our culture at all. If the open door policy continues we will HAVE no culture. It will just be one boring mess full of division.

Immigrants which integrate into our society - fantastic, good stuff.
Immigrants who form their own little communities not integrating with our society at all trying to shove their own culture down our throats while
condemning our own that is NOT welcome here.

A man approaches your door, he openly hates your guts - would you let him into your house?

1. UKIP calls for an end to the age of mass, uncontrolled immigration. Since 1997 immigration has added almost four million new people to the British
population; this figure does not include illegal immigrants, the exact number of which is unknown but is probably at least one million and possibly
much higher.

2. Britain is very densely populated. England, where the majority of people live, is one of the most densely populated countries in the world: more
densely populated than China, India and Japan. We simply cannot sustain the level of immigration that adds another one million people to the
population every four to five years. This puts an intolerable burden on our infrastructure and public services.

3. UKIP would introduce a five year freeze on immigration for permanent settlement (with some exceptions) until we regain control of our borders, put
in effective immigration controls, and deal with the issue of illegal immigrants. Overstaying a visa would become a criminal offence.

4. Any future immigration for permanent settlement must be on a strictly limited and controlled basis where that can clearly be shown to benefit the
British people as a whole and our economy. Immigrants would not be able to apply for public housing or benefits until they had paid tax for five
years.

5. Meanwhile UKIP would enable people to come and work in the UK by means of a points based work permit system for limited periods of time and to
fulfil specific gaps in the job market that cannot be filled by the existing work force.

6. Measures would be taken to identify illegal immigrants and remove them to their country of origin. Exceptions may be made in limited circumstances,
but there would be no general amnesty for illegal migrants.

7. EU citizens who have been established in the UK for seven years or more will, depending on their circumstances, be able to apply for permanent
leave to remain (provided they fulfil certain criteria and are eligible to apply for work permits).

8. UKIP would withdraw from the European Convention of Human Rights and the European Convention on Refugees. This would enable us to deport foreign
criminal and terrorist suspects where desirable. UKIP would allow genuine asylum applications in accordance with our international obligations.

All points are conservative. However,it is an economically desirable stance. Mass influx of population lowers wages, standard of living, and tends
to create a disproportionate amount of costs compared to the taxes generated, especially if the migrant population is relatively unskilled. This has
been historically so since the man settled down and became civilized. It is a fundamental part of economics. I agree with it. Show me a current
country on earth that has a large legal and illegal immigrant population and open door policy that has had its economy strengthened by them.
Historically, there are very few. And those few only had a temporary need.

I think Germany in the 60s is a good example. They had a huge manufacturing need for inexpensive and relatively unskilled labor. A large amount of
Turkish people immigrated to work. Now the need isn't there as most of the low skill jobs have been replaced with robots, CNC machines, robotic
welders, etc. etc. The need is no longer there, but the immigrants remain and their skillset, overall hasn't improved. You therefore have a
considerable proportion of society claiming benefits with very little chance of coming off claim in the foreseeable future.

Farage is setting the political agenda in the UK, not the Marxist rent a mob who tried to silence him with verbal abuse and physical intimation.

edit on 17-5-2013 by ollncasino because: (no reason given)

So you tell others to stop the name calling, but anyone who disagrees with YOU is part of this "Marxist rent a mob" you KEEP repeating?

If you must insist on making these smug little attacks on people, at least vary them a little.

Having seen your profile and the areas in which you have an interest, I'm afraid your presence here is only proving our theory... you seem fixated on
immigration, Islamic extremists and defending the right wing in every thread.

You clearly have an interest in defending right wing ideals, and yet you're here attacking anyone who dares to disagree or criticize Farage and his
racism and xenophobia?

Like a lot of UKIP supporters, you're helping the critics more than arguing against us!

Look at Japan, a proud country full of culture. Now look at the most heavily-oriented immigrant communities in the main cities in the UK, that isn't
our culture at all. If the open door policy continues we will HAVE no culture. It will just be one boring mess full of division.

Balkanization, or Balkanisation, is a geopolitical term, originally used to describe the process of fragmentation or division of a region or state
into smaller regions or states that are often hostile or non-cooperative with each other.

Balkanisation of the population certainly didn't work out too well in the Balklans.

The left don't care. They see immigrants as allies in destroying conservative institutions and social mores. That and a few million extra votes.

Originally posted by Rocker2013
You clearly have an interest in defending right wing ideals, and yet you're here attacking anyone who dares to disagree or criticize Farage and his
racism and xenophobia?

Racism
1. a belief or doctrine that inherent differences among the various human races determine cultural or individual achievement, usually involving the
idea that one's own race is superior and has the right to rule others.
2. a policy, system of government, etc., based upon or fostering such a doctrine; discrimination.
3. hatred or intolerance of another race or other races.

Xenophobia
an unreasonable fear or hatred of foreigners or strangers or of that which is foreign or strange.

Please give any evidence whatsoever that Farage is racist or xenophobic?

Originally posted by Wulfric
Immigrants which integrate into our society - fantastic, good stuff.
Immigrants who form their own little communities not integrating with our society at all trying to shove their own culture down our throats while
condemning our own that is NOT welcome here.

See, this is where your opinions and argument completely collapse.

You speak of this British culture as though it has been static since the beginning of time, when it was actually CREATED through centuries of
immigration!

Our language is a mixture of hundreds of influences arriving here for thousands of years. Our diet is created from those of immigrants from all over
Europe, India, China...

You are NOT a "pure" Brit - there is no such thing, you are a mixed race citizen, with various immigrants in your ancestry.

You have a very warped and simple view of what British culture is, but you ignore the fact that this culture is made from the billions of people who
were born here and ARRIVED HERE over the course of hundreds of thousands of years FROM ALL OVER THE WORLD.

Whether they came here by boat as Vikings, or as Romans, or crossed by foot to become the Pagans of Britain, this country only exists because of
immigration.

The OP is suggesting that UKIP supporters tend to be those of racist and/or homophobic persuasion. No doubt some are indeed that way.

Lets take a look at this dichotomy of supporters outlook versus party principles by referencing the Lib Dems. Probably one of the biggest
demographics that support the Lib Dems are recent Muslim immigrants. The very people who support that party, partly because liberal open door
immigration allowed them into the country, are mandated by their faith to be racist and homophobic.

One can only surmise from that perspective that if UKIP is racist and homophobic because slice of their supporters, loud they may be, are racist and
homophobic, then the Lib Dems and Labor are just as racist and homophobic for supporting the mass immigration of by definition racist and homophobic
demographics.

Labour lib torys are all the same which is why I dont vote but I shall vote for UKIP at the next election. I dont trust them but I shall give them a
try. They cant be any worse than the bunch we have now or any worse than the main 3 parties. I am sick to the teeth with these two faced lying
politicians who are only in it for them selves. They are public servants. My grand dad and father fought in wars so that they could have a job, That
job was working for us which they all seem to forget.

My feelings on the UKIP party is that on their own they make some sense however they
have had a rise by taking a lot of Tory voters who believe that the UKIP is more of the traditional
Tory policies than the actual Tory party.

Now as I said on their own they make some sense and despite what some are claiming above they are more Right leaning hence taking Tory supporters with
them (as well as a lot of disillusioned Labour Voters who blame a lot of this on the wars and Gordon Brown which all has merit)

Now one time over the Liberal Democrats made sense - For those across the pond (The secondary party in a coalition government with the
Conservatives)
When they got in bed with the Tories we see what happened, for me a mix of Tory and UKIP is certainly NOT in the countries best interests.

I'll say this. UKIP currently has some type of cult mentality, where every one is buying right into it despite knowing all the other parties say one
thing and do another, what makes you really think ex Tory MP Nigel Farage is really the man to change things? Especially by rapidly expanding, with a
very loose vetting basis.

One comment earlier claimed the party was 4 years old. Try 20years old. I remember when Kilroy was face, what happened to him?

But, it has to be said that we are a small island with limited resources (and money) and cannot house and feed everyone else on the planet. So sooner
or later we need to end the policy instigated by Labour of unlimited open door immigration.

Yeah, it was founded in 1993, making it 20 years old. They were nothing until 2009 European elections. The "Constitution Party" in the US has been
around since 1992, but none of their members has been elected to any real level of office until 2006. So effectively, the party, from a visibility
standpoint, electoral standpoint, and other measure has only really been a force, minor though it may be, in the last 7 years. UKIP, I would say, is
similar in that regard.

tarring all, most or even meny ukip supporters as racist a huge generalization and this kind of steryotyping just causes more divisions.

If there was this much support for racism it would be the bnp picking up most if not all of the support not ukip.

edit on 16-5-2013 by
monkofmimir because: (no reason given)

wouldn't it be wiser for muslims, that leave their own homelands, to adapt to the culture of the country they move to?
if I were to move into your house, I wouldn't try and turn it into a place I like, I would adapt to the way you already have it.

Nigel Farage has been barricaded by police in a pub before being whisked away in a riot van after his visit to Scotland was hijacked by hard-Left
independence supporters.

Originally posted by Rocker2013
You clearly have an interest in defending right wing ideals, and yet you're here attacking anyone who dares to disagree or criticize Farage and his
racism and xenophobia?

My partner is of an other race. Consequently my son is mixed race.

In other words, your clumsy attempts to silence debate by insinuating that anyone who is against uncontrolled immigration is racist or xenophobic is a
major fail.

I chuckle when people say that UK culture has never been static. No, it certainly hasn't. In some ways it has been outright replaced with another.
However, since the late medieval period when England forged an identity of its own separate from France, it's culture from then on was decidedly its
own and dictated and directed by the then currently indigenous people. That's 500 years of a self identified culture that, while combining the traits
of others, was distinctly its own. That culture proved to be one of the most successful in the world. Sure, it evolved from there, but at the will
of the people who belonged to that society and culture.

What people are worried about is the replacement of that tried and tested societal and cultural system that proved to be so successful with one that
is an amalgamation of some of the least successful societal and cultural systems. That's where the fear is coming from. Not necessarily foreigners
in general, not necessarily specific races, but the usurping and replacement of a proved successful culture and societal system with ones proved
noncompetitive and sometimes backwards..

Originally posted by Rocker2013
You clearly have an interest in defending right wing ideals, and yet you're here attacking anyone who dares to disagree or criticize Farage and his
racism and xenophobia?

I will attack anyone who tries to silence any discussion on immigration by calling people racist. My partner is of an other race. Consequently my son
is mixed race.

In other words, your clumsy attempts to silence debate by insinuating that anyone who is against uncontrolled immigration is racist or xenophobic is a
major fail.

My daughter is 'Half-English' if such a thing exists, so I guess that blows away the argument of me being 'Anti-English' too, going by what you
just said. How can I be 'Anti-English' when I have enjoyed many of your women? The Lancashire accent is one of my top turn-ons FYI.

Well it's Friday night so I'm off to enjoy myself. Have a good weekend and thanks for all your input.

It's sad, but alas very predictable that this thread turned into verbal mud-slinging and the repetition of dogmatic opinions and viewpoints.

Concerning UKIP; they are merely exploiting the ignorance and arrogance of the major political parties who have all completely ignored and disregarded
genuine concerns of many Britains regarding the EU and immigration for years.

Our elected politicians are there to represent the interests of their constituents and the electorate as a whole.
Unfortunately modern day politicians are career politicians whose primary objectives are personal advancement and gain, adherence to party line and
the continuation of the system that allows them to maintain the good life and to milk the gravy train.
I make very few exeptions be they left wing, right wing or centrist.

The truth of the matter is that party politics has failed the UK miserably and we need a full system re-boot of the whole system including electoral
and parliamentary prodedures.

It's disheartening that every attempt to discuss the EU or immigration in an open and honest manner, be it on ATS or in 'real life', results in very
little reasoned debate on the actual nitty gritty.

Attempts by Galvatron to detail UKIP policies have been ignored by almost everyone posting in this thread, and that's a shame because there's
some great stuff there and provides an ideal starting point for people like myself who for whatever reasons are pretty much ignorant of UKIP's
policies apart from it's stance on the EU.

Now I may have been mistaken in taking the OP as implying he was proud of the manner that a very small number of Scottish Nationalists intimidated
Farage and chased off the 'evil Englishman' who is loved by 'Nazi' English in typical proud Braveheart Scottish like fashion.
But the tone of his OP and his subsequent posts very much support that that was indeed his intention.

I accept I could be wrong and would welcome it if the OP took the time out to clarify his own beliefs and opinions about this and what his intentions
were when starting this thread - maybe that could help get thing's back on track, stop the inane bickering and genrate open, honest and passionate yet
respectful debate.

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