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Re: Obama, In A Blow To Closing Guantanamo, Signs Law

Originally Posted by Boo Radley

Both rule law and civilan control won't allow that.

Of course it will. I trust the military to act in out best interests just as I trust the government to do the same. If they don't then the necessary steps will be taken, and there are laws on the books designed to limit the power of both. You seem to think that trusting government and military is the same as giving them carte blanche to do whatever they choose, that it's not necessary to follow laws and procedures. I think its time you actually read the posts you're responding to and to quit leaping to erroneous conclusions.

It goes to the claim you made that we don't oppose or openly oppose these things in the past. We did. Didn't have instant media, and like today, we often spoke in oter medium, like in novels. But, people did nenounce wrong acts even then.

Sure they denounced wrong acts and we still do. But if we judge these acts by reading fiction then we should respond by writing fiction. Dealing with facts, as in a court of law, is a far better way to go.

You said we were fighting Islam. That is fighting a religion.

Actually I never said any such thing. In fact you have the gall to claim I said we are fighting "Islam" and in the very same post you quote me as saying "When we are at war, and indeed we are at war with Islamist terrorists, we are better off to trust our military than not". Can you really not make the distinction between the Islam and Islamists??

None of those countries attacked us either. And those terrorist who attacked us came form SA, not Iraq. Not Afghanistan. And they can be found in nearly every country in the world. Again, no country attacked us. And you miss the point with the KKK and the skin heads. If I were to say that we need to stop Christains, or fight Christians, because of acts by people in the KKK or skinheads, then I would eb doing what you're doing with Islam.

Let me get this straight, ok?

Do you feel that because Islamic terrorists can come from all over the world we should just sit back, like ducks in a row, and let them attack? And if any of them are caught in an airport line-up they should then be tried in a civilian court? Please, no more nonsense about the KKK or Christians, all right? These meanderings serve no purpose.

Al queads is Islam? See you're doing it again, making the two the same thing. They are not.

My error. It is al-taqiyya that allows Muslims to lie, and I'm sure you understand that terrorists are also encouraged to lie, and make false claims about torture, etc.

Second point. Deception is taught to many, including those in the US military. How to resist torture is also taught, also to the US military. This is understood all around. It is not the religion, Islam, that teaches deception. As well read as you are, you still need to make the proper distinctions.

Re: Obama, In A Blow To Closing Guantanamo, Signs Law

friday:

The Obama administration is preparing to increase the use of military commissions to prosecute Guantánamo detainees, an acknowledgment that the prison in Cuba remains open for business after Congress imposed steep new impediments to closing the facility.

Defense Secretary Robert M. Gates is expected to soon lift an order blocking the initiation of new cases against detainees, which he imposed on the day of President Obama’s inauguration. That would clear the way for tribunal officials, for the first time under the Obama administration, to initiate new charges against detainees.

Re: Obama, In A Blow To Closing Guantanamo, Signs Law

Originally Posted by Grant

Of course it will. I trust the military to act in out best interests just as I trust the government to do the same. If they don't then the necessary steps will be taken, and there are laws on the books designed to limit the power of both. You seem to think that trusting government and military is the same as giving them carte blanche to do whatever they choose, that it's not necessary to follow laws and procedures. I think its time you actually read the posts you're responding to and to quit leaping to erroneous conclusions.

Foolish to hold such trust. human beings are always capable fo doing wrong, so oversight is always needed. Watch dogs. If you don'tn have a healthy distrust, you don't question, and you get something liek Iraq and Gitmo.

Sure they denounced wrong acts and we still do. But if we judge these acts by reading fiction then we should respond by writing fiction. Dealing with facts, as in a court of law, is a far better way to go.

Fiction (art), to paraphrase a famous quote, is the lie that reveals the truth. And while courts are a valid place, something can be wrong, even illegal, even if it never goes to court. It can be evil as well.

Actually I never said any such thing. In fact you have the gall to claim I said we are fighting "Islam" and in the very same post you quote me as saying "When we are at war, and indeed we are at war with Islamist terrorists, we are better off to trust our military than not". Can you really not make the distinction between the Islam and Islamists??

Yes, you did. And I made a distinction as well. Terrorism is a tactic. Islam is a religion. Islam is nto the only people suing the tactic. Not even the only people using the tactic against us.

Let me get this straight, ok?

Do you feel that because Islamic terrorists can come from all over the world we should just sit back, like ducks in a row, and let them attack? And if any of them are caught in an airport line-up they should then be tried in a civilian court? Please, no more nonsense about the KKK or Christians, all right? These meanderings serve no purpose.

No, that just the stupid leaps your side makes all too often. I believe we should actually go after the groups, the actual terrorist, and not countries, and not nation building. but, yes, they should be tried as criminals. You kill people, you're a criminal. This is not Afghanistan versus the US. If it was, it would be over now. A government can surrender. An idea does not. Because Bush lack the ability to understand the problem facing us, he was reckless and brought about a very costly mistake.

My error. It is al-taqiyya that allows Muslims to lie, and I'm sure you understand that terrorists are also encouraged to lie, and make false claims about torture, etc.

As are all trained personal. The MOB is taught to lie. So are US soliders. Again, there's no meaningful point here on your part.

A tactic for what? To what purpose? Have you thought this through?

Have you thougth it through? Terrorism is neither new nor limited to one group of people. It's been used throughout history, and continues to this day. All that changes is who is using it where. It's silly to fight a tactic. Fight a specific group of people. An duse the most effective force. Our enemy is small, fast, easily hidden. This is not something the military can best fight. You need something smaller, more moble, more secretive. We migth even learn from the Brittish who quit the open bold war with Ireland and worked behind the scenes, making deals, getting intel and quietly ended their conflict. They stopped elevating the status of the enemy, and with a more understated effort actually accomplished the goal they wanted.

AUSTAN GOOLSBEE:I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

Re: Obama, In A Blow To Closing Guantanamo, Signs Law

As are all trained personal. The MOB is taught to lie. So are US soliders. Again, there's no meaningful point here on your part. .

Please to explain this.

where in your training were you taught to lie? I'd love to hear this.

You should try to remember, ideas are conveyed by researching information, vetting sources, and confirming said information. Not by regurgitating talking points given to you by your "news" station.​Don't hate me 'cause I'm beautiful, but hate me all the more.

Re: Obama, In A Blow To Closing Guantanamo, Signs Law

When tortured. That's what SERE trainign is all about. How to handle torture and prepare yourself for it. And would include misdirection.

AUSTAN GOOLSBEE:I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

Re: Obama, In A Blow To Closing Guantanamo, Signs Law

When tortured. That's what SERE trainign is all about. How to handle torture and prepare yourself for it. And would include misdirection.

really? When and where were you through SERE? me, over at Fairchild, AFB... How to handle capture, is but one module of the entire course.

You should try to remember, ideas are conveyed by researching information, vetting sources, and confirming said information. Not by regurgitating talking points given to you by your "news" station.​Don't hate me 'cause I'm beautiful, but hate me all the more.

Re: Obama, In A Blow To Closing Guantanamo, Signs Law

really? When and where were you through SERE? me, over at Fairchild, AFB... How to handle capture, is but one module of the entire course.

It is one Module.

An overview:

Resistance and escapeTraining on how to survive and resist the enemy in the event of capture is largely based on the experiences of past US and allied prisoners of war. Most of the aspects of this course are secret. Several official websites, however, give a general overview.

AUSTAN GOOLSBEE:I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

Re: Obama, In A Blow To Closing Guantanamo, Signs Law

Originally Posted by Boo Radley

It is one Module.

An overview:

Resistance and escapeTraining on how to survive and resist the enemy in the event of capture is largely based on the experiences of past US and allied prisoners of war. Most of the aspects of this course are secret. Several official websites, however, give a general overview.

I won't get into it too much, but outright lying is not encouraged at SERE, but distraction, redirection, and slightly changed utterances of information is taught. It would be hard to describe to someone who hasn't been through it.

You should try to remember, ideas are conveyed by researching information, vetting sources, and confirming said information. Not by regurgitating talking points given to you by your "news" station.​Don't hate me 'cause I'm beautiful, but hate me all the more.

Re: Obama, In A Blow To Closing Guantanamo, Signs Law

Originally Posted by ReverendHellh0und

So it is not as you said "what it's all about".

Are you really linking me to a wikipedia sight about SERE school?

I won't get into it too much, but outright lying is not encouraged at SERE, but distraction, redirection, and slightly changed utterances of information is taught. It would be hard to describe to someone who hasn't been through it.

You guys need to understand as an overview, Wiki is fine. It only gives an overview.

But yes, resistence does match what I said. Part of resisting can be deception. As I recall, my training involved being told that choosing to lie was a personal decision, one that might involve consequences later. But, this is discussed. Part of training.

AUSTAN GOOLSBEE:I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

Re: Obama, In A Blow To Closing Guantanamo, Signs Law

Originally Posted by Boo Radley

This is not Afghanistan versus the US. If it was (sic), it would be over now. A government can surrender. An idea does not. Because Bush lack (sic) the ability to understand the problem facing us, he was reckless and brought about a very costly mistake.