September 3, 2012

1. Mia Love, an African-American Republican woman, gave a speech and received loud cheers and a standing ovation from almost every single one of the thousands of white Republicans in attendance.

2. Two bozos, of unknown identity, “threw peanuts” at an African-American woman camera operator for CNN, while purportedly saying “This is how we feed animals,” and were ejected from the convention.

Furthermore, there is video proof that the first incident (the standing ovation) happened; while the only evidence we have for the damning details of the second purported incident (at least as of the time of this writing) is the word of a partisan left-wing blog.

what is interesting about the Bozos is that the RNC issued an official statement. but i've been intrigued by the cricket silence of the media (left and right)concerning this incident. usually the media would have published names, photos and more of the bozos, but the nothing. you're the first blogger that I know of who has pointed this out. and many on the left refer to the bozos as "delegates" when even the RNC statement refers to them as "attendees"

One was for show before the general public, and the other might have shown the dark side most often kept private. Two security officials removed the "participants' but did not reveal their identity;it all seems officially recorded.

that NYDailyNews article is interesting since it is the first time I've seen them miscreants identified as alternate delegates. why didn't the paper try to identify the miscreants, who no description of them? old? young? male? female?

"One was for show before the general public, and the other might have shown the dark side most often kept private. Two security officials removed the "participants' but did not reveal their identity;it all seems officially recorded."

-- That's kind of racist of you to imply. Why are you saying that Mia Love, Rice and Artur Davis are acting like a minstrel show, put up for the amusement of whites and to assuage their fears? Why are you such a blatant racist? You really should check your racism at the door. It is unbecoming.

One was for show before the general public, and the other might have shown the dark side most often kept private. Two security officials removed the "participants' but did not reveal their identity;it all seems officially recorded.

More Hate Whitey crap from that pasty white SOB, R/V.

Does this get you laid, R/V?

When some pasty white SOB keeps carrying on with the Hate Whitey crap, I know that I've discovered a racist.

The fact that Roesch/Voltaire doesn't believe blacks can have honest opinions and could be treated as equals for having those opinions is more telling than an incomplete story about people insulting a black CNN camera woman for reasons we only assume are racist.

Because nobody really cares what the mayor of a town of 18,000 people has to say, even if she is a Republican? (In fact the story should be--they couldn't find a black female mayor of a bigger town?)

While if true, the latter shows that there were some serious racists allowed into the Republican convention (of course you will dismiss it by saying they, without any evidence, were Democratic plants.)

AF: The question is whether it happened as reported. If I was told a racist did a racist thing, I'd say that was a bad thing to do. I'd feel bad if I later learned we didn't have all the information. For example, the fact that the woman works for CNN, which, let's face it, is not exactly well-liked, seemed to me more relevant than her skin color until people told me it was racist. Then it clicked, ah, that's a possibility. Do we even know the racial identity of the peanut throwers?

"Because nobody really cares what the mayor of a town of 18,000 people has to say, even if she is a Republican? (In fact the story should be--they couldn't find a black female mayor of a bigger town?)"

-- Ah. So you think she just isn't black enough. Why whenever we start talking about minority Republicans does every person further left than center left suddenly turn into a flaming racist.

I agree the peanut throwing got overplayed. Although, the chants of "USA! USA!" to drown out the Puerta Rican speaker got way *underplayed*, which is to say, almost nobody knows it happened. Why DID it happen?

The fact in itself of her getting a standing O, btw, doesn't mean anything. The question is, what was she saying? Booker T got standing Os in the Deep South too. While Booker T was a complex figure (as Love may be, as well), neither in its own moment nor through the lens of history, did it speak well of Booker's audience, that they lauded him on the grounds that they did.

I agree the peanut throwing got overplayed. Although, the chants of "USA! USA!" to drown out the Puerta Rican speaker got way *underplayed*, which is to say, almost nobody knows it happened. Why DID it happen?

The fact in itself of her getting a standing O, btw, doesn't mean anything. The question is, what was she saying? Booker T got standing Os in the Deep South too. While Booker T was a complex figure (as Love may be, as well), neither in its own moment nor through the lens of history, did it speak well of Booker's audience, that they lauded him on the grounds that they did.

People always want credit for stuff they are supposed to do. A person will brag about some stuff a normal man just does. Some people will say stuff like, "I clapped when the black people spoke at the convention." You're supposed to, you dumbass! What kind of ignorant shit is that? "I didn't throw peanuts at the black journalists!" What do you want, a cookie?! You're not supposed to do that, you low-expectation-having loser!

"I agree the peanut throwing got overplayed. Although, the chants of "USA! USA!" to drown out the Puerta Rican speaker got way *underplayed*, which is to say, almost nobody knows it happened. Why DID it happen?"

Chants of USA drowned out Romney and Bohener at times too. Were those racist?

Just remember: The people who think Mia Love, being an elected mayor and conservative rising star, was not a big deal and should not have been a speaker, will, next week, fall over themselves to tell us why a student activist with no real government experience at all, is a perfectly valid and wonderful convention speaker.

Now, the real reason they'll say this is their politics. But, if I wanted to be a jerk? If I wanted to poke some eyes? I'd say the biggest difference between the two women is that Mia Love is black and Sandra Fluke is not.

Also: How come everyone is forgetting the story from the black college student that came on stage with Jeb Bush to talk about how vouchers helped him get the education he needed?

Surely, it isn't that they only paid superficial attention and missed a story of a black youth using education to better his life thanks to Republican policies.

Just remember: The people who think Mia Love, being an elected mayor and conservative rising star, was not a big deal and should not have been a speaker, will, next week, fall over themselves to tell us why a student activist with no real government experience at all, is a perfectly valid and wonderful convention speaker.

"Chants of USA drowned out Romney and Bohener at times too. Were those racist?"

I did not see Bohener's speech, so I can't speak to it. But in Romney's case it did not come across as anything other than enthusiasm for the man.

In the case I am referring to, the speaker was arguing against something and the audience was hostile to her. It was a way to shout her down. Big difference, don't you think? I wonder if they would shout down Ron Paul, had he made arguments for handling the delegate count differently, with chants of "USA!" "USA!" Actually, I don't wonder about that. It's patently obvious, what the answer is.

"AF: The question is whether it happened as reported. If I was told a racist did a racist thing, I'd say that was a bad thing to do."

Bullshit. This didn't happen in a dark alley, it happened at the Republican convention. If there was any suggestion that the facts were more favorable to the Republican Party than was reported, that would have come out, and the Romney campaign would not have apologized.

Ms. Fluke does not want free contraception. She could have that for under $120 per year.

You may recall that she was demanding $1000 per year to spend on contraception.

For people like her I'd be glad to pay for free contraception, heck I'd be glad to pay to have her tubes tied. Anything to stop the "give me everything I want and make it gold-plated" gene from spreading.

"In the case I am referring to, the speaker was arguing against something and the audience was hostile to her. It was a way to shout her down. Big difference, don't you think?"

-- So... you admit that the issue had nothing to do with her race after a modicum of interrogation, yet earlier said: "to drown out the Puerta Rican speaker got way *underplayed*, which is to say, almost nobody knows it happened." It's almost like you know the fact she was Puerta Rican had no actual impact on the chant, yet wanted to seed that thought out there anyway. Kind of sloppy rhetoric; you should be more careful. Someone might have thought you were implying racial ill will in a case where you clearly know there was none.

Bullshit. This didn't happen in a dark alley, it happened at the Republican convention. If there was any suggestion that the facts were more favorable to the Republican Party than was reported, that would have come out, and the Romney campaign would not have apologized.

Irrelevant. The incident, even if it happened, is so trivial and slight that it shouldn't have been reported.

A person who works in a public job, who cannot handle a mild insult and tossed peanuts, should find another job that doesn't involve leaving his or her house.

"Bullshit. This didn't happen in a dark alley, it happened at the Republican convention."

-- And yet, we've pain stakingly little information to go on. You do know that many conservatives are hostile to the media, and that they've referred to people, even whites like Olbermann and Matthews, as dogs and worse, right?

"It's almost like you know the fact she was Puerta Rican had no actual impact on the chant, yet wanted to seed that thought out there anyway."

No, it's actualy NOT like that at all, and you know it. There was only one truly contentious moment at the RNC that I saw anyway, and it was that one, and I thought it was odd that they would choose "USA" as their drowning-out chant directed at a Puerta Rican. I do not think "well, they canted 'USA!' a lot at the convention cuts it. Forwarding that explanation is not just sloppy rhetoric; it edges towards straight up disingenuous rhetoric.

P.S., as a note: When I give you an out to accept something, you should. I am usually trying to spare you having to accept that you are incredibly, incredibly wrong. I provided an opportunity for you to acknowledge that maybe you had been a little unclear. Instead, you decided to go all in. Maybe you didn't realize you were lied to by your media of choice, in which case, man up, accept your mistake, move on. Or, maybe, you are willingly trying to deceive others about what happened. In which case, whatever.

"That's because all the witnesses are Republican operatives and they're not talking -- except to issue formal apologies."

-- Ah. Like Security. Dave Shuster. The CNN camera woman. Like -every other reporter at the convention who could make their career and break news by interviewing the peanut throwers-. Republican operatives, all!

First of all, my main point here was not and is not, o look, this is an earth-shattering smoking gun of racial hostility. I understand further that not everyone in the arena was chanting the chant in question.

I was, and am, noting that it got almost no coverage or notice whatsoever. But it clearly was notable. The lady herself, an ardent GOP supporter, was pretty stunned by it, and said so. Let me ask you something: did you even know about this, have you seen it? Or are you just in "none of it is credible" mode?

Shouting I do not hate racist of any color, but I do acknowledge their views and actions which I do not agree with. Further, I was not implying that Love couldn't think for herself and become a Republican and Mormon, but that the audience, knowing they were on camera realized they were part of the show that goes on at any convention, and that show may not be reflected in private moments off camera.

Harrogate: It appeared on PBS, I heard about it via a variety of blogs, Fox and ABC. Alan Colmes blogged about it. Univision, Daily Kos have articles. NBC tweeted a story about it. Harpers had a piece on it.

Harrogate: Oddly enough, I think their voices are important. Which is why I was glad Jeb Bush brought up the student who benefited from the voucher program. But, oddly enough, it was Freder who thought being an elected mayor wasn't important enough. Take it up Fluke's worthlessness with him.

Yeah, I think the places you cite show that there were some who noticed it, but hardly end the question of whether it was underreported. These things amounted to a blip by my lights. I certainly didn't see any actual discussion of it in the papers or on the network or cable coverages of the convention.

But regardless. Whether something is underreported or not is always fun fodder for debate and seems like these things are never resolvable.

Now that I know you knew about it, though, I'm even more surprised you want to liken the moment to Romney having to wait for the "USA!" chants to die down before he could finish speaking. It seems like a desire not to look at something, to be honest.

Harrogate: The chants of USA had nothing to do with the speaker at the podium. I think it is entirely more interesting you want to inject racism into a story that doesn't involve racism. You're smarter than that.

OK. It was the same exact thing, when they shouted her down with "USA!" as when they chanted it for Romney. They were just being enthusiastic, baing happy about America. I hagve no idea why she and her fellow delegates reacted the way they did, at all.

Actually. if you read the news that's been reported, even the person shouted down acknowledges that this was over the rules fight going on at the convention (which also got loads of press) about not seating the Ron Paul delegates. So, yes. Even she doesn't see it as having to do with racism.

"Although, the chants of "USA! USA!" to drown out the Puerta Rican speaker got way *underplayed*, which is to say, almost nobody knows it happened. Why DID it happen?"

That was the end of the platform, committee meeting and she was giving the report. The Ron Paul delegates were raising a fuss about something they didn't get in then platform. Unilateral disarmament or something. The "USU" shouts were to drown them out. It had nothing to do with the speaker on the podium.

The liberal media has become totally corrupt. They saw how they were able to destroy George Bush and Sarah Palin's reputations so they've become even more embolden and even more corrupt. The Dems, Liberals and the liberal media no longer have a true liberal principle.

They're all about big government control of people's lives because they see themselves as "the best and brightest" and they've got the elite school credentials to prove it, at least to themselves. They think government knows best but remember this isn't an unbiased opinion, for most of them feed at the big government trough via their government jobs. Because of living and working in a liberal bubble, they have a very low regard for the average people, believing we're racist because it is what is still being taught to them in schools and by having little interaction with the average person so that perception hasn't changed.

Bottom line, the more big government, the less freedom for individuals, financial and otherwise.

Also, the point of asking if the other USA chants are racist are deliberately to force people to step back and then say: "Well no, they weren't BECAUSE of this," in hopes that they will then turn to this incident and step back and try and find out what was so racist about it, analyze it, and realize that the fight was over something else entirely.

It's an attempt to force you to examine it from all angles instead of the one that has been fed to you since Harpers screwed the pooch by deliberately race baiting in his article with phrases like "speaking in her accented English."

Those who were actually at the RNC say (last story on 8/29 here) that delegates were not trying to drown out the Puerto Rican delegate with shouts of "USA USA", they were trying to shout down a knot of Ron Paul supporters who were making asses of themselves with their own shouts, and that were too busy doing that to notice that the Puerto Rican delegate was trying to speak.

So which is more likely? That large numbers of Republican delegates would openly act like racists on camera when an election is at stake, thus handing the left a major talking point? Or that actual Republican delegates sick and tired of pseudo-Republican Ron Paul supporters acting like clowns would try to shout them down and keep shouting them down without noticing that the next speaker was trying to start her speech? I'm going to have to go with (b) here.

Thanks DrSquid - that's a much better link than mine. The sad thing is that if you Google "'Puerto Rican' booed 'USA USA'" you get pages of links to lefties whining about what supposedly happened as if it were a fact, before you get to any story with any hint that what they're whining about didn't actually happen.

Mister Buddwing, a cameraman was shoved by one of Lizzie Warren's handlers recently, and I really don't give two figs about it. Impossible to tell what led up to it. Maybe the camera person was being too nosy; maybe the handler overreacted. Either way, I don't care. Nobody got hurt.

Mia Love is, thus, among the avante garde of blacks who recognize this pathology and are moving to change things.

Damn it, ST, I was with you 100% until you went there.

Mia Love is part of the black immigrant experience that comes here and looks down on every other black without a lick of understanding. I may criticize blacks, but I don't see myself as different or better, I've just gotten farther at hacking through the weeds of this nonsense. Mia Love finds solace in running from blacks - in being embraced by whites - not in bringing us together and solving our issues. She says nothing that speaks to American blacks, and she isn't capable of doing so. That may be impressive to some, but it's a major failing to me. Why?

Althouse - the article you are linking to is several days old. While it was true that at the time of the posting of the article, there hadn't been confirmation of the incident, the Romney campaign subsequently stated it was a reprehensible incident. Why would the Romney campaign condemn something that didn't happen? And why didn't you mention that there is more evidence of the incident than the word of a left-wing blog?

Shouting Thomas says: Absorbing the deadly blow of a couple of peanuts and an insult is not a very big deal. I've taken much bigger hits than that at gigs from assholes in the audience. Taking that kind of shit is par for the course in any public gathering.

While I'd agree this isn't an earth-shaking event, I've been at more political events than I can count (including one Republican National Convention - Houston 1992, damn that was fun), but I've never seen people throw peanuts or act that way to members of the media or anyone else. And if they did, their behavior wouldn't be tolerated and no one would expect the recipient of the abuse to just shrug it off without complaint. Standards of behavior are different at different venues and the standards of what goes on at 1am in a rock and roll bar aren't the general standards for public behavior. That's a good thing, even though what goes on at 1am at such places can be fun.

Mia Love is part of the black immigrant experience that comes here and looks down on every other black without a lick of understanding.

My anecdotal evidence here in DC, is that dislike between American blacks and immigrant blacks is quite mutual. I think that "without a lick of understanding" goes both ways.

It's not like nativism is an impulse unknown in the black community.

I've also found that black Africans, who have histories of black tribes gleefully murdering other black tribes going back since forever, find the idea that one can build any sort of political organization around skin color to be simply risible. I know that's not the American black experience, but it doesn't take too much imagination to understand and appreciate where the Africans are coming from.

Standards of behavior are different at different venues and the standards of what goes on at 1am in a rock and roll bar aren't the general standards for public behavior.

I recently played an afternoon gig at a rod and gun club for a crowd of about 500. The audience loved the Old Dawgz, and we've been invited back repeatedly.

At our last gig, a couple of idiots decided to stand a few feet away from me to scream insults for about 5 minutes. I don't even know what pissed them off.

There are always a couple of assholes who want to insult anybody working in a public capacity at any public event. I didn't assume that those assholes at the rod and gun club were representative of some generally bad character trait among rod and gun club members.

While if true, the latter shows that there were some serious racists allowed into the Republican convention (of course you will dismiss it by saying they, without any evidence, were Democratic plants.)

You're promoting a story that has already thoroughly been debunked. While the woman was speaking, the Ron Paul people were pushing for a procedural point of order from the floor. The chants of "USA USA" were an attempt by the non-Paul delegates to drown them out.

It was a floor fight happening at the same time as a speaker.

Thoroughly debunked, and the original report has been changed to reflect that.

My black friends and business associates are almost entirely recent immigrants from East Africa and the Caribbean.

Yes, they will make it clear to you that they don't share the viewpoint of American blacks.

Seems to me that they have a viewpoint that is well worth considering.

I consider EVERYTHING, and you know that, but such condescension is ugly - and nothing to be admired. What do those "recent immigrants from East Africa and the Caribbean" know of America, but what the blacks here fought and died to provide? How dare they decide their anger or frustration is misguided ON THEIR TERMS? They have it easy by comparison, because American whites aren't mad at THEM for the historical push-back. No, they're paraded as the "good blacks" when they just got here and stepped over the dead bodies to be greeted by whites who want to show the rest of us a thing or two.

It's bullshit.

We are a country. We have a history. We should deal with our issues realistically. This idea that shitting on (or ignoring) American born blacks for others, as a way to "enlighten" them, helps no one. It's racism (or something) in another form.

If you want to bring blacks away from the Democrats, you've chosen a pretty shitty way to do it - and it won't work,...

TAMPA — A shouting match erupted on the floor of the Republican National Convention on Tuesday afternoon as Chairman Reince Priebus called for a vote to unseat several Ron Paul delegates.

Loud cries of “Boo” and” Seat them now” filled the convention floor as repeated calls to contest a credentials committee report fell on deaf ears after it passed by a voice vote. A majority of the delegates from six states were required to call for a roll call vote on the credentials report, submitting their intent to do so in writing in advance. Despite Maine the delegates’ claims, no such support came from their colleagues from other states.

The boos disrupted the speech of Puerto Rico National Committeewoman Zori Fonalledas, who was set to announce the nomination of Speaker of the House John Boehner as permanent convention chairman.

Priebus repeatedly called on the crowd to silence themselves, as dozens of men wearing earpieces converged on the shouting Paul supporters — some delegates, and even more expressing their displeasure from the arena’s upper decks.

As Boehner moved to the report from the Committee on Rules and Order of Business, Paul supporters began shouting “Point of Order,” calling on the chair to recognize them for a motion. Boehner shouted over them, as other delegates tried to drown them out with chants of “U-S-A.”

Oh. And yeah. That one thing: the media's influence has severely diminished over the last decade or so, so conservatives should stop treating media bias as if it's significant. It's not. The media has gone all-out pro-Obama/War on Women/anti-Romney/anti-Ryan/granny-killer-nazi-dirtbags these last couple months, and it hasn't influenced a thing. Nobody is listening or watching or reading. Nobody cares. We should go back to gloating about the NYT's fiscal collapse. That's funny stuff.

My anecdotal evidence here in DC, is that dislike between American blacks and immigrant blacks is quite mutual. I think that "without a lick of understanding" goes both ways.

I know. I can still remember the first time I met an African:

She got all huffy because we didn't know anything about Africa except what we learned from Tarzan movies. We schooled that bitch - quick - on what it meant to be from a slave culture.

It's not like nativism is an impulse unknown in the black community.

No, but it's not a thing with blacks. Not knowing shit isn't the same as deliberately being mean.

I've also found that black Africans, who have histories of black tribes gleefully murdering other black tribes going back since forever, find the idea that one can build any sort of political organization around skin color to be simply risible. I know that's not the American black experience, but it doesn't take too much imagination to understand and appreciate where the Africans are coming from.

I agree with that, of course, but I still insist we have to get there through the filter of our own history. We're Americans - at the forefront of history - and I'll be damned if tribalism is where I go to, or run from, for answers.

Seems to me if I wanted to generate some negative press for any organization at their biggest gathering, whether it was the RNC or the College of Cardinals, I couldn't think of a better way than hurling racist remarks and insulting behavior at a black person operating a video camera for a major cable news outlet.

Makes me think

a.) the two morons were Demo plants trying to stir up some trouble

or

b.) the episode never happened.

Either way explains why the guilty parties were not identified in the media. The fact that there is no video of the event (I mean, she was carrying the camera, right?) makes me lean towards item b.

Many of the immigrants who get here stepped over the body of dead blacks in their homeland to do so. If they're not concerned about "their" own dead, why should they bother about yours?

The problem I have with American black notions of their own history is that while American black history sucks, lots of historical experiences suck much, much worse.

How do you think a post-war Ukranian or a modern Congolese immigrant feels when he hears the "Nobody knows the trouble we've seen" litany? Is there any wonder why their response would be "You have no idea how lucky you are! Fuck off & get a life!"

We schooled that bitch - quick - on what it meant to be from a slave culture.

A slave to your mind maybe, but otherwise, I'm sure you were blowing smoke. Or did you forget that BLACKS enslaved the blacks that came to the Americas? Did you forget that slavery still exists in Africa?

The culture the black Americans have is a wannabe slave culture, as slavery ended 147 years ago in the US. The undeserved feelings of victimhood makes blacks, and you, feel better about sucking at life, when in reality the reason the black community in America sucks is because black American culture sucks. Blacks up until the 40's had stable families, a strong work ethic, and low unemployment rate. But once the new slave culture of government handouts and dependence came up, the feelings of entitlement went through the roof, rotting the moral character of the black culture.

That you think you "schooled that bitch" only shows what a dumb bitch you are.

Just to be clear, I already stated that the peanut throwing incidents--if incidents they even were--are overblown. I rolled me eyes the second the reports about them came out, and when Ann referred to them here, I rolled my eyes again.

Matthew, Dr. Dweevil, et al:

I find the explanations you are providing persuasive. I was watching the event take place in real time, however, and the timing of it all was pretty damned stunning to me. And the lady's *initial* response was very different than the things she said later.

Also, I understood at the time, and continue to understand, that there was a floor fight going on over Paul's (earned, fwiw) delegate count. But the idea that they were totally uncognizant of the speaker at the time (and I trust everyone countering me has bothered to look at what she was trying to say, as well?) is hardly what one would call an air tight case.

The truth of the matter is that no matter what the explanation, it was a hostile moment and therefore nothing AT ALL like when the delegates chanted "USA!" while Bohener and Romney were at the podium.

Still, like I said, I do find the explanations recently rendered persuasive. I am not totally aligned with those explanations because what I saw was hostile rhetoric in that moment. And it sure as hell was a bigger moment, a moment more worth exploring, than the protocols of the peanuts of Zion incident.

The stereotypical view of American Blacks is not one recent immigrants want tied to themselves?

Hmmm. Go figure.

Yeah, that anti-feminist, 2nd Amendment-loving, Proud To Be American message I get from Rap Music is so disgusting!

Somebody grab me a steel drum!

It's not something anyone would want to be associated with.

"Anyone" meaning those so filled with their own bullshit they can't recognize the fruits of their own hateful labors. Boy, under that criteria, I should see all white people as "The Devil".

That's the kind of "thinking" thatll get us far, huh?

I'd think all black people would want to distance themselves from it, but the media wants to emphasize it. Why?

It sells papers. And I no more "want to distance" myself from the American experience than you do - oh wait - you DO want to do that. Pretend it never happened and think you're right based on your delusion.

Considering the sources of the 'peanut' incident it probably didn't happen. But assuming it did, what is the implication that Obama is a monkey which then begs the question of who is the organ grinder? Joe Biden the intellect of the democratic party?

30 million people out of work, millions more going on SSI disability after unemployment runs out, the poverty level the highest since 1965, the median family income down, the average person's net worth down to below the Bush average, a financial apocalypse coming soon if nothing is done and what do the resident lefties here troll about? A few peanuts tossed and the in-authenticness of a few Negros who dare not not toe the Party line. Unbelievable.

Further, I was not implying that Love couldn't think for herself and become a Republican and Mormon, but that the audience, knowing they were on camera realized they were part of the show that goes on at any convention, and that show may not be reflected in private moments off camera.

Now, you're just implying that most people at that convention (and those who are like-minded) seethe with racism.

Many of the immigrants who get here stepped over the body of dead blacks in their homeland to do so. If they're not concerned about "their" own dead, why should they bother about yours?

I agree - so they should shut up and let we Americans deal with our shit without their input. Trying to turn a historical slave/master relationship to their advantage doesn't help America.

The problem I have with American black notions of their own history is that while American black history sucks, lots of historical experiences suck much, much worse.

I agree - but as I always say about cultism, just because it's not happening to YOU doesn't mean it's not worth addressing. I'm not Russian, don't live in Russia, ain't going to Russia. You got a problem in Russia? Deal with it. Black issues are here - and, as I said, they push this country to the forefront of history - whether whites want to go there or not (smile).

How do you think a post-war Ukranian or a modern Congolese immigrant feels when he hears the "Nobody knows the trouble we've seen" litany? Is there any wonder why their response would be "You have no idea how lucky you are! Fuck off & get a life!"

I know how lucky I am - I also know my country (not theirs) does everything it can to solve these problems, all over the world. If they don't like it, they know where they can go,...

harrogate:Congratulations. I really don't recall the last time I saw someone on the web change his mind on a major issue of contention when shown new evidence. Seriously, it's a lot rarer than it ought to be.

garage mahal (11:35am):Can you really not see why giving people free money (or equivalent in food stamps) taken from other people would tend to make them lazier, while allowing people to keep a higher percentage of the money they earned by their own labors would tend to make them work harder? You use a form of words to make the two situations sound comparabale, but they are in fact in essential ways quite different.

I think the headline to this post is a bit misleading. I heard little about Mia Love's speech (I already knew about her, although about as much as I should given she's a small town mayor from a distant state.)

I read about the CNN/peanut incident the night it happened. Since then, there's really been no news about it. (at least in my experience.)

garage mahal said...Always love the prevailing thought among conservatives that food stamps make you lazy. But a tax cut to wealthy person makes them more motivated!

9/3/12 11:35 AM

Yeah because raising taxes on marginal income really motivates people to work more the net less. Hey since according to you tax hikes don't affect behavior lets cut civil service salaries by 30% and call it a targeted tax hike. I'm sure they will just fine with that. And since food stamps don't make one lazy, lets get rid of them since industrious people don't need them. After all if undocumented workers can find work so can those on 'entitlements'.

Additionally, as Thomas Sowell has detailed, the black culture of today was inherited from the Scottish highlands. In other words, what you claim to be a "slave culture" is in fact a culture inherited from one of the whitest countries on earth that had pretty much nothing to do with slavery.

Did you forget that BLACKS enslaved the blacks that came to the Americas?

Since that information didn't become widespread until fairly recently, how were we supposed to know that? I said we were getting information from Tarzan. Considering the number of you intent on putting a guy in office who thinks American Indians are the lost tribes of Israel, I seriously don't think your capacity for complex thought - or commitment to education - is very good or well thought out.

The culture the black Americans have is a wannabe slave culture, as slavery ended 147 years ago in the US. The undeserved feelings of victimhood makes blacks, and you, feel better about sucking at life, when in reality the reason the black community in America sucks is because black American culture sucks. Blacks up until the 40's had stable families, a strong work ethic, and low unemployment rate. But once the new slave culture of government handouts and dependence came up, the feelings of entitlement went through the roof, rotting the moral character of the black culture.

Please. I said I understand where blacks are coming from - this is my country, culture and history - not that I share it. But that's enough for you - after years of dealing with me - to slander me. And you don't think blacks have a reason to be angry? Right there, you've proven you don't play fair, when I'm attempting to.

So maybe it's you who are "rotting the moral character of the black culture"? Hmmm?

That you think you "schooled that bitch" only shows what a dumb bitch you are.

You write: "But the idea that they were totally uncognizant of the speaker at the time (and I trust everyone countering me has bothered to look at what she was trying to say, as well?) is hardly what one would call an air tight case."

No one was paying attention to the speaker at the time. Such is the nature of the afternoon program at both conventions. The vast majority of people are milling around, networking, catching up with old friends. There is an audible din in the arena and perhaps 20% of delegates/alternates/guests are actually in their seats and paying attention to the speakers during the afternoon.

In this case, the din was louder, there was even less attention to the podium, and the "networking" was replaced by a mad scramble on this and other floor fights.

I think the Democrats are far more guilty of the crime of waistism than the Republicans. It is impossible for a Democrat to mention Chris Christie without alluding to his girth. Republicans, on the other hand, frequently criticize Barney Frank and rarely make mention of his fat ass. Can't we all agree: the Democrats hate fat people. Waistists, one and all.

Additionally, as Thomas Sowell has detailed, the black culture of today was inherited from the Scottish highlands. In other words, what you claim to be a "slave culture" is in fact a culture inherited from one of the whitest countries on earth that had pretty much nothing to do with slavery.

CrackWhy would you or anyone want to be associated with the stereotypical view of anything?I thought you were all about individualism.

I am, but what the hell can I do? I live here, I was raised here, these are my friends and family you guys are railing against. While I'm trying to school them on conservatives, I've got to listen to you spew garbage - do you understand what a bind that puts me in?

I'm trying to be bigger than all this, but none of you want to go there - as I said in my first comment, you LIKE playing the race card.

I'm trying to EMBODY MLK's dream.

Y'all - blacks and whites - want to keep it a nightmare, apparently for as long as possible.

I read somewhere that until Brown v. Board of Education, the all black schools were better schools than most of today's intercity schools because the black teachers took pride in their teaching, those teachers were also proud of their race, and so they demanded the best from their students.I'd say those schools were probably better than most of our public schools today.

Those who know a little bit of the history know that black families were making great strides in moving up to middle class status until LBJ's "Great Society" and "War on Poverty."

I think it was Thomas Sowell who said that slavery and the great depression couldn't destroy the black family. It took LBJ's "Great Society" to destroy the black family.

I think some blacks won't vote this election. They know they've been hurt the most by the high unemployment. They're also more religious than most non blacks and they for sure don't like Obama's stance on gay marriage. Obviously because of their long time loyalty to the Dems and pride for their race, I think Obama will still get a high percentage of their votes but that percentage won't be as high as in 2008 and it won't be high enough to get him reelected.

Crack, I agree we should address the issue, but how much should we do so through our politics?

One of the moral cores to big State progressivism is slavery. Over at the Nation they're still gathered around John Brown's body. It's all the Democrat party has right now, so they're locked and loaded.

If you're held in bondage by the laws of civil society, and decisions like Brown v Board of Ed come along, and affirmative action...why not take them...damn the arguments for individual liberty?

Obama got where he is in large part because he didn't confront whites directly like most of the Old Civil Rights crowd, but simply smiled and charmed his way along and took advantage of the moment (and got helped along by other radical lefties along the way...).

It STILL might work on Althouse and various other young people and rich white NPR liberals.

Didn't, like, almost the exact same thing "happen" at a Palin or McCain/ Palin rally in 2008?

I mean, uncannily the same: a black MSM cameraman (except I think in 2008 it was a man, not a woman) was racially taunted by supposed Republicans. At a rally for the Republican candidate(s) against Obama, at a time when the racism theme is being pushed by the Dems/MSM.

How odd that in these two separate and unrelated incidents during two separate election campaigns (both against Obama), racist "Republicans" decide to taunt an (obvious, conspicuous) member of the MSM. They made a beeline for the person with the big camera. (Yet there's no footage.)

Like I said, I understand why blacks are angry, but it's got to be dealt with as an American issue on American terms.

Valid argument and on the mark. But what is the solution?

I'm currently standing with Clint Eastwood - who even went so far as to extoll the virtues of a heroin addict, like "Bird," to speak of the American experience - we have to remember "We own this place."

We don't have to keep leaping for the race card, or responding to the dog whistle. We do this because we LIKE getting played.

We should be laughing at the people attempting to do this to us - not just the Jacksons and Sharptons, but ANYONE who attempts to divide us.

No, because - while criticizing Obama - Clint warned us against "politicians":

I would just like to say something, ladies and gentlemen. Something that I think is very important. It is that, you, we -- we own this country. (APPLAUSE) We -- we own it. It is not you owning it, and notpoliticians owning it. Politicians are employees of ours. (APPLAUSE) And -- so -- they are just going to come around and beg for votes every few years. It is the same old deal. But I just think it is important that you realize , that you're the best in the world. Whether you are a Democrat or Republican or whether you're libertarian or whatever, you are the best. And we should not ever forget that. And when somebody does not do the job, we got to let them go. (APPLAUSE) Okay, just remember that. And I'm speaking out for everybody out there. It doesn't hurt,...

"I'm speaking out for everybody out there."

And so am I. We need to stop this garbage and get serious about being owners of this place. Blacks aren't the problem any more than whites are - WE are the problem. The fact that we refuse to live up to that. We have to own it.

We prefer, instead, to band together into our little cults and point at the "other side" when there is no "other side."

There's just us. Americans. I argue for THAT every day - and I'm called a crank for it.

But until we realize it, and fight for it, we won't be able to win for losing.

They might as well drop race cards and dog whistles - instead of balloons and confetti - at both conventions.

dreams said...I read somewhere that until Brown v. Board of Education, the all black schools were better schools than most of today's intercity schools because the black teachers took pride in their teaching, those teachers were also proud of their race, and so they demanded the best from their students."

Somewhere? You read somewhere? Where was that, that Klan handbook of wishful thinking?

Are you implying that black teachers are involved and dedicated and are not proud of their race and they just let their students slack off and muddle through cause they are black?

There he is ladies and gentlemen: The Core of the GOP. You can agree with him or tell him to go dig a hole, but you can't be silent.

That's fine, as long as you can admit that. No harm there. Like I said, we started off watching Tarzan. Nothing to be proud of, but it was a start.

What is the "correct" position?

Us against the media, politicians - including Mia Love - and the preachers, gurus, etc.

Are you fighting against or for the stereotypical racial view?

I'm against everything, apparently. We're simply doing it all wrong.

Why do people like Mia Love have to embrace a system or a point of view they don't agree with?

Because, unlike you, Mia Love can't admit she doesn't understand it. She's playing us. I met her and her husband. Heard her stump speech long before she "made it" and didn't hear anything that spoke to our native American experience. Her husband's criticisms of America cemented the view for me.

It's like when I lived in France and they tried to tell me about America and I realized they don't know shit about the place.

A person like Mia Love would do well to go on a "listening tour" rather than trying to tell me anything.

I didn't come here for a better life - I was born here - and I'll respect anyone who can claim that more than anyone else:

"I'm surprised that Althouse is questioning whether the peanut incident happened at all. According to AP, the Romney campaign apologized for the incident and called it "reprehensible." "

Why did they assume it happened? Obviously, if you're told this happened, the automatic response is to say it's terrible, but that's no reason for me to believe it happened. It is like that famous spitting incident? It got condemned, but that doesn't mean it happened. I don't think it did.

Blacks are going backwards and have been for decades. There really is no excuse.

Sure there is - lots of them.

Nobody, black or white, speaking against the "Black Power" movement when it started. That was a biggie.

Decades of welfare nonsense.

White Flight.

An unwillingness to support those who are unconventional thinkers, merely because they're unconventional. Understanding ideas doesn't seem to be as important to those here, as controlling how they're displayed, if you ask me.

A love for religion, etc., over education - ensuring we see more of one and not the other in the black and white communities.

Insulting declarations like "Rap Isn't Music" when it was the greatest cultural contribution to American and world culture in 50 years. That even turned your kids against you.