The word ātman is connected with the Indo-European root *ēt-men (breath) and is cognate with Old English "æþm", Greek "asthma", German "Atem": "atmen" (to breathe), and Spanish "alma" (soul).

I know Jan has discussed his issues with asthma and I actually had mine crawl up again, though not as severely as it was in childhood.This link to Atman caught me off guard and I wonder what it could mean.

Anyone have any thoughts?

Michael

_________________Birth is the death of the life we have known; death is the birth of the life we have yet to live. (Marion Woodman)

The word ātman is connected with the Indo-European root *ēt-men (breath) and is cognate with Old English "æþm", Greek "asthma", German "Atem": "atmen" (to breathe), and Spanish "alma" (soul).

I know Jan has discussed his issues with asthma and I actually had mine crawl up again, though not as severely as it was in childhood.This link to Atman caught me off guard and I wonder what it could mean.

Anyone have any thoughts?

Michael

Hi Michael, It is 2:52 AM my time in Virginia, a few minutes less than 2 hours since your post. I saw and read it maybe an hour or more ago, but I was on the trail of some synchronicities and thought it better to come back here later. Good thing, I intuitively did that delay, because I found something very important which I will be posting later over on the Blog.

Although you and I and a few others have discussed asthma before, the timing of your post now is very significant to me. I was commenting in Private Message to Jan yesterday morning, Tuesday, that I should prepare info for our other forum members about the symptoms of an overactivated central nervous system and what to do about it... which often is natural sensible measures like getting better sleep and not getting too far out into our esoteric preoccupations. Then there is the other stuff I have written about before about various medical conditions or medicine side-effects that can give us freaky brain dysfunction and over-wired nervous reactions -- kind of practically like jumping out of our skin.

Well, in the specific message to Jan, most of which I'll edit a bit and them post publicly on the forum, I mentioned my current challenge in regard to coping with hyperesthesia** and akathisia*** -- these are neurological terms that also often apply as psychiatric terms but are not psychological and emotional issues. They are physiological. I could and should have added the word hyperventilation, which is abnormally rapid breathing that can lead to an asthma attack in those of us who (usually) have some genetic inclination to it... for those who do not tend to asthma, then panic attacks may be what they experience instead. Of course , by the time we get well into an asthma attack, we sure are very likely to also be experiencing a whole lot of huge panic symptoms at the same time!

** Hyperesthesia (or hyperaesthesia) is a condition that involves an abnormal increase in sensitivity to stimuli of the senses. Stimuli of the senses can include sound that one hears, foods that one tastes, textures that one feels, and so forth. Increased touch sensitivity is referred to as "tactile hyperesthesia", and increased sound sensitivity is called "auditory hyperesthesia".

*** Akathisia may range in intensity from a mild sense of disquiet or anxiety (which may be easily overlooked) to a total inability to sit still, accompanied by overwhelming anxiety, malaise, and severe dysphoria (manifesting as an almost indescribable sense of terror and doom).

OH, WOW... I was just checking to see if my spelling of hyperesthesia was correct, and I got far more of a definition at one source than I have ever seen before... BINGO... which is related to the semi-hypnotic states we may be inducing in ourselves with our psychic (or psycho ) adventuring. This may prove to be a saving grace for helping many of us do better grounding and not get too hyper in the various ways I have just described. I will have to look into this more later today.

Anyhow, I definitely see a connection between Atman and Asthma in the sense that as we may be engaged in approaching a closer relationship and then a fusion identity with the Divine Source, we may not be quite prepared yet for such a overpowering confrontation which can then backfire on us and activate massive hyperventilation leading to dangerous bronchial constriction... while those without the inclination to asthma may experience only stark terrifying panic reactions which may include gasping, bizarre breath holding, or other respiratory complication... but not specifically asthma for those people...

hmm, I better post this much, so I do not lose it... at 3:40...

OK, I am back and am not going to continue on the topic for now... we can develop it with some others joining in. For now I am going to show you what I was synchronistically reading about when you were posting... this is quite an amazing correlation...

I was doing some of my silly synch searches from the spam E-mails. Last night, Monday turning Tuesday, I had some ultra-extraordinary experiences with the deceased One and Only over in La-La-Land. Toward the end of it all as I was becoming completely conscious, he commented about how although he is with me all the time now, he also can be with the many others who also have with him the same kind of harmony and... synchrony... that we have together. I asked him if that is an actual word... since I am used to only synchronicity as a term which I of course use very frequently. Then after I got up and onto the computer, I read Remo's latest post where he put up the image of the guy popping his head through from our world into the cosmic world. I stopped reading and decided to look up the meaning of synchrony... and I quickly wound up at a website looking at gears like in the image Remo had posted...

have to look up the link to that.... then back to finish this...

Last edited by Suzanne on Wed Feb 24, 2010 3:55 am; edited 1 time in total

I see that Jan has posted in the meantime at 3:54, but I have not read his message yet, as I am going to finish up the themes here first.

That's where Remo posted the window into the other realm image... come to think of it... why am I mentioning this now? Oh well, maybe there is a good reason. When I found the synchrony gears (thinks to Lee) result that went along with the cosmic gears Remo had shown... I was really blown away with astonishment, although I should be used to this stuff by now and not get over excited about it. I was really very very wired even after going back to sleep mid-morning for awhile... that I realized it is important to be practical in our consensual reality world and do the calm breathing exercises that can prevent the hyperventilation and the freaky hyperesthesia and akathisia that I was starting to experience way too much.

OK, the synch I experienced when reading your Atman-Asthma post, Michael, resulted in very little overstimulation... because I was aware of the need to balance my reactions becase of what happened about the gears synch...

ALL RIGHT, get ready for this... here is what I was reading while Michael was posting:

The terms come from one of the meaningful coincidence spam which had a result (right before the search results you will see next) that wound up showing the last name of a man I knew 50 years ago who came from Alexandria, Egypt... his actual last name... which I almost never see anywhere in any context because it is not common in the U.S.A. The string of nonsense alphabet letters I was using from the spam were in the lower part of these results that are in reverse order:

Last edited by Suzanne on Wed Feb 24, 2010 4:22 am; edited 2 times in total

OK, only one more step left here to go. Michael had posted at 12:54 while I was till reading the Egypt material. I will be going into LOTS more detail on the Ann-Suzanne Blog because this ties in his the complicated posts several of us forum members had last year about the era of Queen Hatshepsut in Ancient Egypt... it turns out this Naville guy worked with the man Karl Richard Lepsius (last names can mean butterfly) who did major research to recover the legacy of Hatshepsut in the mid-1800s. We discussed him on the Blog before.

OK, this gets seemingly silly now... the non-word "nek" in the search words is however the way some Egyptian words or terms were supposedly said or represented. This was what had resulted from the search that was an E-book by Naville:

First Paragraph: with 12. them and associate with the followers of en tuat : un-tn nek Uaui dak/iet, scxhen nek qert zes-Horus : mayest thou depart and come without being 14. sen; khnem-ck vsck/it ent nialdi, uiihct-tu neter dm-turned back 13. or stopped at the gate of Tuat : may cs ; dr-clc hems cm klienn dmhet, vsten-ck em netthe doors of the horizon be opened to thee, and the 15. cut JJapi, fa db-ek cm seka-ek em -ihct-ek enbolts unlock themselves for thee; 14. and mayestthou arrive at the Hall of the two Truths, and the godwho is in it salute thee, and mayest thou sit within theAmhet, and walk abroad in the City 15. of the Nile,

WOW, doesn't that seem like some kind of Ancient Egyptian version (instead of Hindu or Sufi or Christian Mystic) approach to the Godhead?

It seems that NEK is a kind of prefix for divinity related things,like May Ra, lord of Eternity, favour ye, and Nekhebt the white goddess of Nekhen or sanctified by offering and pure ' — tothe ghost of Osiris, the prince of Nekheb and Auyt... AND SO ON.

Hmm, what is this... I am concerned about my breathing problems acting up so much recently... and I do not know YET that Michael is in the process of posting about that topic... and what do I come across next?

Quote:

" I say to you and cause you to know, that is byreading (this memorial) : 46. it has no boasts (?),there is no injury or protest in it, 47. it is not aquarrel with another, nor a contradiction of a man whowas miserable 48. in his time : they are pleasantwords of cheerfulness, which the heart wearies not tohear : it is the breath 49. of the mouth which is noteaten, which hastens not and delays not : it will bewell for you to do the like: [ye would have (?)] found[it true (?)] if 50. ye had (?) come here when I wasin this land of the living, not a shame to my god. Ihave become a [soul] 51. well furnished, I have esta-blished my place iu Kher-neter; my possessions of allkinds are with me, that I may not refraiu from (?)answering 52. my father('s mummy)was an object of reverent care to him whom hecreated, he lacked not (the sou) whom he had be-gotten.

" May your hearing of this be pleasant."

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This time around, instead of getting over-wired and hyperventilating, like I did over the cosmic gears synchronicity, I am more calm and centered... indeed it sounds like a good idea which they knew even way back then to have a smooth, easy, and well-balanced breathing process: it is the breath 49. of the mouth which is not eaten, which hastens not and delays not : it will bewell for you to do the like.

Suzanne

_________________"Only if a man dares to entrust himself again to the depth of his origin can he reach the height for which he was destined." Karlfried Graf Durckheim

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Michael

Joined: Thu Mar 16, 2006 7:16 amPosts: 825Location: Tucson, AZ

Thank you for your replies! Jan, excellent insights, thank you so much for sharing. And Suzanne, very interesting synchronicity. I love how evident it is that our paths on this forum are intertwined. Who knows what sorts of connections (like through friends) we have.

I guess I should mention why I stumbled upon the topic I originally posted.

I was doing research for a project based on the idea that we are all One.

I tend to take a nondualistic approach which is more akin to the philosophies of Zen Buddhism or Advaita Vedanta. Atman = Brahman. The apparent distinction is just an illusion.

In the context of the small spider and the big spider, however, I guess it is necessary to keep the Atman individualized.

Sweet dreams, everyone.

Michael

_________________Birth is the death of the life we have known; death is the birth of the life we have yet to live. (Marion Woodman)

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Michael, this is for me completely timely, this topic here, wow. I have been having alot of trouble with 'my' (I say it guardedly) asthma lately (interesting that Suzanne mentionned that she too had been concerned recently in this regard). In my case one could say it is likely due to an upsurge in allergies, but however it feels like more than that to me these days. The comments posted here by Jan and Suzanne are so apropos I almost feel on the brink of emotionality about all this tonight, which moves me to post before I go to bed. Which in turn says to me that this topic of Atman and Asthma has much to do with the subject of emotion, and what it means to really 'feel' as opposed simply to create drama which is only posing as authentic 'feeling', or even to be moved by an over-stimulation (as Suzanne speaks of so well above) that is created by the misplaced energies of others or by unknown energies swirling around which we can't in some way keep from effecting our delicate systems. Well, right off anyway several obvious connections to do with the topic in my case.

With all this in mind, just above Jan does speak of the connection between the lungs and the heart. That level of chakric energetics, the heart, resides right smack in the middle of the human bodily 'chakric road' so to speak. Of necessity in this world, the heart chakra goes to ALOT of work, sometimes nigh on suffering, to balance the two ends of the scale, from the infrared to the ultraviolet, IMO an exhausting job for those who are, for better or worse, either by nature or for some other reason (sometimes co-dependency and other psychological and emotional disturbances can eventually cause this over-dedicated 'heart' stance) commited to the dynamics of harmony. The thing is, however, and this is important to keep in mind: we should never seek harmony only for harmony's sake! This is a lesson I learned in the not too distant past, which at times I still struggle with. Is not the fairly well-individuated ego the only one which is, in the Jungian lexicon, the sole vessel strong enough to withstand a meeting with the Unconscious, the voyage to 'the Self'? This has all to do with that 'little spider', when it meets up with the 'Big Spider' in Roger's dreamscape, of course! Thus the idea of individuation is very important here. WE must it seems take care not to immerse with the BIG ZONE until we get 'real' with the stuff of this 'time' and place -- something which those of a mystic bent often miss entirely, at least for awhile, and to their physical and mental detriment at times. Something seems to be constellated here in the area of 'ego development' and it's relation to the heart, anyway, which may also have to do with the great 'fenestra' metaphor, which Jan and Suzanne have both already associated with in this thread...

If the ego container is not strong enough yet, if consciousness is already focused on the heart chakra level (and/or higher) BEFORE grounding in the material, lower chakric centers has been at least partially achieved, then it is possible that the ego vessel or container will not be strong enough in such persons as 'psychic sensitives', among others, to counter the intense energetics that can and do surface when the kundalini suddenly rises, for whatever reason, and dramatic injuries can and do result. It has of course been documented, and I think that that is one of the first things I considered when I seemingly, from out of nowhere, after an admittedly awful respiratory illness in my early forties, 'contracted' asthma, with ongoing acute congestive states ever since.

But now we move into more subtle territory yet, the stuff which Jan is talking about above, which I am quite frankly amazed by, it is so interesting and plausible. I am tired so I can't start to even paraphrase any of it here, but Jan I'm holding out for more where your discussion is concerned. And Suzanne, I think there really is something in what you are saying here that connects in an arrow like way right to the target here, connects up with Jan's posts as well. Again, I am a captive of this discussion. I would like to say more, but for now must go. The only thing left to mention is that the ideas I've briefly brought up above relate to asthma also in this way: the one who naturally (or unnaturally!) seeks union with the Mystery too avidly can suddenly become 'swamped' by the Unconscious or the Unus Mundus, thus it is as if the lungs have in a sense literally 'drowned' in the ethers of the Mystery and in some sense continue to maintain that site of injury, as if a 'wound' perpetuated by the World Soul herself perhaps, while of course the heart has in such a case taken on far too much of this distinctly numinous interface also, to it's own detriment sometimes (in my case I experienced a heart attack just 2 years after this respiratory illness, at 43 years, and escaped with only a minor scar on one valve, thought by the doctors a miracle. This I sense was due to earlier integrative personal work I had been engaged in, and I have, through BCI and other healing work since, found a good interface between the heart and the other charkric frequencies, something I still have to pay keen attention to, quite some journey, a real 'zen road' that's for sure -- appreciate where others of you have mentionned the intense difficulties you have fielded time and again in the awesome responsibility of a personal commitment to healing -- so many on the forum have been so honest, it is indeed an honour to read and meditate on your words).

I am indeed exhausted now. Hmm, interesting that this theme too relates to the theme of 'exhaustion', which I very much associate with my asthmatic problems. How this relates to Atman I will have to consider quietly for a few days at least. This discussion is for me intense in every way.

blessings to all, with many thanks,Kristin

_________________"The tomb is not a blind alley; it is a thoroughfare. It closes on the twilight. It opens on the dawn." ******* (Victor Hugo)

Hi Kristin, Hmm... odd thing, I was just starting this post and accidentally typed just the letter "h" not here... I guess in connection with the word heart... but in the http window of... somehow... a new tab. A drop-down of some past web pages I have visited appeared...

Somehow, I am not yet able to copy or show which ones they were... I tried and then lost the extra tab. Daimonic Reality at a Gnostic site was one, and another one had Russia in the topic, which is something that has arisen on the Blog as a highly significant synchronicity as well.

My levels of agitation the last couple of days have been almost astronomical... with hyperventilation symptoms and possibly vague heart "ache"-ings... (which intensified before going back to bed after this post). Of course I do not want to make the mistake of assuming that all this is ONLY emotional or esoteric. Kind of by chance, my doctor's nurse called today to find out if I had some routine scan yet, not related to anything urgent... but I did find it odd because I tend to frequently skip or delay that stuff... and do NOT get a call from the nurse about it... so, I should take this as a very practical warning that I must "GET OUT YOUR (my) PLANNER", as the deceased Lee sometimes seems to say to me rather emphatically, and get with it about taking better care of myself.

I seem to be experiencing too much boundary loosening, so that past... personal, historical, collective... material is swarming into my inner space... and my body and brain... and belly... are not able to contain it and operate at its too rapid a pace. Oh, wow, now the belly is aching, after eating too fast and too late in the midst of all this agitation... even after sleeping for awhile when I got home early this evening.

I am going to post just this much and then pull up a couple of images I was going to use at the Blog... but it seems better to let go of any intentions to expand on the agitating themes there until I deal with this inwardly in some effective manner...

Kristin, almost literally seconds after I posted the above, I went to a new browser page... and typed just the "h" -- then I tried to copy the names of the down-list but could not... instead I wound up going to one of the sites... exactly at this point on the resulting page:

The Guardian at the Gate(Lee & I supposedly visited Robert Monroe a few months ago in the Beyond and had an encounter with him in regard to this kind of topic below. I tape recorded in detail my memory of the lucid dream-vision only 10 minutes after it occurred.)

In actual fact, there is no “Cosmic Lion” in Monroe’s books, but there is a great pseudo-god, a demiurge, who lives on death. This unnamed being of unknown gender has turned the Earth into that balanced ecology of death we call the food chain. All of us, from one-celled organisms to philosophers and mystics kill one another to nourish ourselves. In the beginning, the demiurge (or “partial power,” “lower potentate,” what the Gnostics called an Archon) was interested in death itself, in any form it occurred; for the energy released at a being’s death supplied an essential force to enhance the tyrant’s own existence. But as time passed, the demigod discovered that the highest quality energy emanated from the death of sentient beings. The higher the consciousness attained by a bodily being -- the more aware it is of its tenuous hold on life and terror of death -- the more valuable the nourishment released at its demise. The clinging to life, the panicky struggle to survive, the longing and desolation occasioned by the passing of loved ones, the cruelty and aggression that drives off competitors: all these emotions enhance the death energy and delight the demiurge. END

The Guardian at the Gate is what I had just called the Wizard of Oz guard image on the Blog only some hours ago right before I was leaving my daughter's house. Actually, I just checked, and I had said to Wayfarer: Suzanne replies: I took a look at that guy's picture (the Soviet era Marshall Budyonny), and he kind of resembles a figure of the Guardian at the Gate in the Wizard of Oz movie. I am going to expand on this theme later, as I realize my Cat Man (that started out being Lee posing as "The Cat in the Hat") has a number of shifting identities and significances. (I realized when I said that, the name for the Oz character would not be exactly that... I knew I was using instead a term from Rudolf Steiner's book, Knowledge Of The Higher Worlds And Its Attainment. Or more precisely, The Guardian of the Threshold.

The Guardians of the Threshold according to Anthroposophy

The main theosophical teachings about the dweller of the threshold remain valide also for anthroposophical scholars. In addition to them Rudolf Steiner speaks about this spectral image called the "Guardian of the Threshold" in An Outline of Occult Science. According to Steiner's teachings this images will present itself as soon as the student of the spirit ascends upon the path into the higher worlds of knowledge. At a certain stage of the evolution the soul forces, of thinking, feeling, and willing will dissociates themselves and bring to the student a new inner way of perceiving that will bring to the encounter of the first Guardian of the Threshold. This Doppelgänger is like a "guardian" that stands before the supersensible world, in order to deny entrance to those who are not truly capable of entering. He may therefore be called the "guardian of the threshold that lies before the world of soul and spirit.". Moreover, according to Rudolf Steiner's teachings, this "guardian of the threshold" may also be encountered when men pass through physical death, and between death and a new birth. Rudolf Steiner also identified two different "Guardian of the Threshold", one being the lesser, while the other one is called the greater:

The student meets the lesser Guardian when the threads connecting willing, feeling, and thinking within the finer astral and etheric bodies begin to loosen, in the way described in the foregoing chapter. The greater Guardian is encountered when this sundering of the connections extends to the physical parts of the body, that is, at first to the brain. The lesser Guardian is a sovereign being. He does not come into existence, as far as the student is concerned, until the latter has reached the requisite stage of development. Only some of his most important characteristics can here be indicated. Rudolf Steiner, Knowledge of the Higher Worlds: How Is It Achieved?, Steiner Press. END

Kristin, This also has to do with the title of my Blog post: Many Identities of the Cat in the Papakha... which is first of all Lee as my multi-purpose inner co-guide (we help each other in turn)... yet is also many other people throughout my present life that Lee has shown in visions are somehow also him... they started out being men or boys, I had liked or loved to some degree, in the visions of one to two years ago... then expanded into male and female people of all age ranges and from all historical periods, then more expansive inclusions of animal types galore, insects, you name it, alien creatures, the whole vast panoramic display of all possible created beings.Well, one thing... typing this and pasting in the other quotations has already lowered my anxiety levels, so I must be touching within the core issue somehow that has manifested in these panic-like overstimulated nervous system reactions yesterday and tonight.

As to the possibility of reincarnation elements... I still do not want to settle for that explanation for anything... but when my old school friend Marla came back on the scene after 35 years of no contact, at one point a few months ago, she said something about, "back when we were Russian"... and I said... "I thought we were Greek"... and then she replied that "our mother was Greek, but our father was Russian"... OHHHHHH, that then explained why I had dreams of somehow being Greek but living farther East as if over into Russia possibly as a "collective" revolution of some kind broke out in our village. That young man (I have some identity with) later came to America and died in an explosion and fire... (smoke inhalation as much as whatever other injuries would be a cause of that person's death) probably in the mid-1930s... maybe... a karmic link to recurring breathing crises... if and when some present life circumstance or reminder factor might trigger such a response without my knowing why consciously. I do not promote that notion... but it may be one of many factors.

A very distinct synchronicity happened just a few hours ago... I have looked back in my web history to see what happened first... I had posted this kitty picture on the Blog... as being somewhat the way Lee's expression (of sly cosmic amusement) had been when he first showed up in "The Cat in the Hat" vision some days ago:

I had mentioned yesterday over on the Blog, a man originally from Russia who I called Anton, someone I knew in the early to mid-1980s. When I first met him, I did not know that he worked in the same building where Lee had many years before, or that he would talk about gravity waves and similar stuff that could be expected as similar interests to Lee's. My dream-vision notebooks from that period of time tend to have some episode about Lee dropping by inwardly to see and speak to me briefly... with dreams about the Russian (hunk of a guy) or real-life accounts of events with him written on the same notebook pages with the One and Only items. In one dream scene, I was walking along with the handsome and charming Russian, and Lee walks up behind us, takes hold of my arm and turns me around walking the other way with him. Then he stops and says, "Just remember that the ultimate Covenant is with me!" Then he let's me go, and I am back again walking beside the other man.

I got the idea from all these things surfacing... partly thanks to contributions from Wayfarer and Jan on the Blog... that maybe I should look up online and see if I could find out what has happened to Anton. He's OK in another state after living overseas for a very long time. I have no interest in ever knowing him in person again. But, also, it kind of dawned on me that he had slightly "oriental" eyes like the smiling kitty picture. I have old photos of him but do not know where they are. There turned out to be only one photo of Anton on the Internet, taken lots of years ago even before I ever knew him... How many times have you ever seen online a picture of somebody with his eyes so semi-closed (from sun-glare apparently in the photo) that they could fit quite nicely on the kitty??? ... which I have done here with my Photo-Draw program, pasting in his eyes over the cat's eyes... As I mentioned on the Blog already, one of my daughters had kidded me back then in the early 1980s and written "Anton Kitty" on one of my notebook pages:

Anton Kitty - a temporary substitute for the One and Only

Also, one of the... Many Identities of the Cat in the Papakha...

Ultimately... and yet in The Present Moment... The All in The One and The One in The All.

THERE... my heart is not palpitating as much, and I can probably get some hours of inner quiet and rest... after these realizations... without forgetting to take better care of my well-being outwardly.

I am not going to deal with this topic on the Blog itself again until I feel sufficiently stabilized. Thanks Kristin for giving me this opportunity to vent when it was needed!

Lots of Love, Suzanne

Last edited by Suzanne on Fri Feb 26, 2010 4:36 am; edited 3 times in total

P.S. I am back at 10:26 AM to make some several slight corrections in the material above. The extreme agitation was gone when I woke up after only about 3 hours of sleep this morning... since posting the above... although I had slept some hours in the evening after getting home.

A wide glimpse of the overall picture of "what is going on" in the recent "on the verge of crisis" experiences is in my mind and heart but does not have to be made specific in words yet. I found myself doing some practical things this mid-morning... and then checking E-mail and reading the latest postings here... which are an amazing flow of wonderful individual and mini-collective insights, especially on Patrick's "Living Bridge" thread and Wayfarer's new "Integrating the Shadow" topic. Thanks to you, Kristin, and to all of you other soul friends on this forum.

Sue and Lee

_________________"Only if a man dares to entrust himself again to the depth of his origin can he reach the height for which he was destined." Karlfried Graf Durckheim

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Fri Feb 26, 2010 2:19 pm

Roger Faglin

Site Admin

Joined: Wed Jul 06, 2005 8:06 amPosts: 717Images: 1Location: France

kristin wrote:

The thing is, however, and this is important to keep in mind: we should never seek harmony only for harmony's sake! This is a lesson I learned in the not too distant past, which at times I still struggle with. Is not the fairly well-individuated ego the only one which is, in the Jungian lexicon, the sole vessel strong enough to withstand a meeting with the Unconscious, the voyage to 'the Self'? This has all to do with that 'little spider', when it meets up with the 'Big Spider' in Roger's dreamscape, of course! Thus the idea of individuation is very important here. WE must it seems take care not to immerse with the BIG ZONE until we get 'real' with the stuff of this 'time' and place -- something which those of a mystic bent often miss entirely, at least for awhile, and to their physical and mental detriment at times. Something seems to be constellated here in the area of 'ego development' and it's relation to the heart, anyway, which may also have to do with the great 'fenestra' metaphor, which Jan and Suzanne have both already associated with in this thread...

Très chère Kristin,

In the well-known story of the so-called 'rain maker' (or rather snow maker) one aspect is to be noticed: the people from the village ask the rain-maker to come, hoping he would do something for them, bring harmony back to their place (and rain with it). But the rain maker does not care for that. His problem is very simple: he suddenly feels very bad. His balance is upset, and most probably his physical health is also compromised. So his preoccupation is simply to heal himself. He does not seek harmony for itself, or harmony for others, he is just striving for better conditions for himself. Of course, as he is who he is, that is to say himself, recovering his balance brings also some snow, as a side-effect.

This just to say that I deeply agree that you CANNOT seek harmony for itself. It's will-powered.

Now to the second aspect: in the spiders dream, the dreamer shoots the arrow that is the small spider towards the big spider. The small spider hits the target, is ejected and transformed into some sort of infans solaris aspect.

The idea here is very clear: you have to be strong enough egowise to do the shooting as it takes place: otherwise the small spider would be let's say swallowed by the big one. There is an important and necessary difference between the two spiders, and BOTH ARE NEEDED. What could we say about the swimmer who gets drowned into the sea? Who would enjoy the sea then? Wouldn't it be a complete waste?

When I look backwards into my life, I recognize one thing. From the moment on I started to trust (some at first confuse) inner wisdom, then I was always put in the situation I needed at the right moment, in the Kairos. This is how the archer of the dream became able to shoot the proper arrow. But trusting never meant surrender. Each time it was a fight. The fight is necessary to the (alchemical) vase to get strong enough for the next step.

Love

Roger

_________________Fire over wood:THE IMAGE of THE CAULDRON.Thus the superior man consolidates his fate By making his position correct.The fate of fire depends on wood; as long as there is wood below, the fire burns above. It is the same in human life; there is in man likewise a fate that lends power to his life. And if he succeeds in assigning the right place to life and to fate, thus bringing the two into harmony, he puts his fate on a firm footing.

I Ching #50

Fri Feb 26, 2010 7:12 pm

Wayfarer

Joined: Mon Feb 15, 2010 10:24 amPosts: 74Location: Moscow, Russia

Sorry for piling it all together...

Kristin wrote:

If the ego container is not strong enough yet, if consciousness is already focused on the heart chakra level (and/or higher) BEFORE grounding in the material, lower chakric centers has been at least partially achieved, then it is possible that the ego vessel or container will not be strong enough in such persons as 'psychic sensitives', among others, to counter the intense energetics that can and do surface when the kundalini suddenly rises, for whatever reason, and dramatic injuries can and do result. It has of course been documented, and I think that that is one of the first things I considered when I seemingly, from out of nowhere, after an admittedly awful respiratory illness in my early forties, 'contracted' asthma, with ongoing acute congestive states ever since.

But now we move into more subtle territory yet, the stuff which Jan is talking about above, which I am quite frankly amazed by, it is so interesting and plausible. I am tired so I can't start to even paraphrase any of it here, but Jan I'm holding out for more where your discussion is concerned. And Suzanne, I think there really is something in what you are saying here that connects in an arrow like way right to the target here, connects up with Jan's posts as well. Again, I am a captive of this discussion. I would like to say more, but for now must go. The only thing left to mention is that the ideas I've briefly brought up above relate to asthma also in this way: the one who naturally (or unnaturally!) seeks union with the Mystery too avidly can suddenly become 'swamped' by the Unconscious or the Unus Mundus, thus it is as if the lungs have in a sense literally 'drowned' in the ethers of the Mystery and in some sense continue to maintain that site of injury, as if a 'wound' perpetuated by the World Soul herself perhaps, while of course the heart has in such a case taken on far too much of this distinctly numinous interface also, to it's own detriment sometimes (in my case I experienced a heart attack just 2 years after this respiratory illness, at 43 years, and escaped with only a minor scar on one valve, thought by the doctors a miracle. This I sense was due to earlier integrative personal work I had been engaged in, and I have, through BCI and other healing work since, found a good interface between the heart and the other charkric frequencies, something I still have to pay keen attention to, quite some journey, a real 'zen road' that's for sure -- appreciate where others of you have mentionned the intense difficulties you have fielded time and again in the awesome responsibility of a personal commitment to healing -- so many on the forum have been so honest, it is indeed an honour to read and meditate on your words).

Hi Michael, Suzanne, Jan, Kristin, Roger, all...

Well, it seems like this is another 'integral' thread on this forum, so I'm sorry if I'll reference some other threads in my post without proper quotations/links. There is still much I have to BCI upon, so I'll just put my own 'two cents' here:

Jan mentioned 'fermentation' lately, and how it is connected to 'sickly green' and the work of heart chakra. Then again there was connection with 'lively vegetative green' and the work of heart chakra, but this time under some other angle. Then there was a lot of discussion of death, 'Anubis and the Bridge' (I'll get to this thread too at some point )), 'the Beyond', etc. So, as I've saw in my last BCI concerning my own health (suddenly I've got a sore throat, almost gone by now), this 'sickly green' was, indeed, coming from me 'Logos ego', 'contaminating' my heart chakra and all of 'energy contours'. But when I observer it for some time in BCI, it didn't turn itself into 'lively green', it turned black, like wet earth, and only then 'lively green' started to show up.

So, as I understood, this 'little inner death' is needed for 'Eros ego' to repair all damage dealt by 'Logos ego' in it's own, vegetative way. And for that good, fertile 'soil' is needed. So as soon as our 'Logos ego' stops it's contamination of 'inner waters' with too much control and 'artificial radioactivity', there still must be a period for all this 'waste' to be 'fermented' and turned into 'fertilizer' - so that resembles a 'little inner death', 'night of the soul', when many of health problems and/or cases of 'bad luck' may appear. It resembles the state of the Hanged Man (fermentation), which is followed by Death (fertile soil) and Temperance (alchemical coniunctio). So I think that all these 'health problems' which I see lately almost everywhere are just a sign of such period of 'fermentation', where our strength of will is tested in paradox of 'willingly not to will'. And that corresponds with the 'strong vessel' very well - such strength of will is the best characteristic for 'strong and integrated ego', is it not?

And again we may remember topics of 'sacrifice' and 'suffering', which were mentioned on this forum just recently. Now, when I can see it's purpose, my 'Logos ego' won't come into my way anymore, and this 'fermentation/fertilization' process will go more easily and naturally, I hope. And, as Roger insightfully mentioned, this purpose has little to do with some abstract 'harmony' - it's a matter of my own life, health, general well-being and, in result, my happiness (as an ability to continue my 'journey').

Sorry if I put it all in one clumsy pile, it's just a little overwhelming to me now, and I think that I need to BCI all this seriously - after all, even my 'Logos ego' agrees that it's my most important 'work' for now )

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