Are you building/buying/flying an Experimental Amateur-Built (E-AB) or Experimental Light Sport (E-LSA) aircraft? Converting an S-LSA to E-LSA? Changing or adding equipment, or otherwise modifying an S-LSA? Need help with Letters of Authorization? Or maybe designing your own aircraft? This forum is the place to discuss All Things Experimental.

Firsttimefly9999 wrote:My intended goal is to build fly sell intill I can afford a nice plane.im not rich but I’m hoping I can pull it off with hard work and determination.

I haven't spent much time in Montana, but I have visited there many times. It seems to me to be a lot like Oregon. Beautiful, wild - an adventurers paradise. Having flown around Oregon, and visited many airfields, I have observed one constant. There seems to be many forgotten, possibly abandoned, small airplanes at all the little out-of-the-way airfields. Some are trash, some need TLC to get back in the air. Perhaps you could look around and pick up one of those in Montana. Planes on the order of Cubs and Champs seem to abound, and some can be had for just a few thousand bucks. Take a look at Trade-A-Plane, Barnstormers, or Controller. There are many airworthy examples, and asking prices run the gamut. Aviation is expensive, but many others on a tight budget have found a way. Good Luck!

That could turn out to be a far bigger project than a purchaser may realize.

A neglected aircraft could need a ‘Top’ overhaul for the engine. If fabric it will likely need recovered. If metal there is likely places where corrosion has won and need to be replaced... Could have expensive ADs that need to be applied.

The price you can afford may not be th price you expected. Obviously a close inspection by an A&P who is familiar with that aircraft is in order.

Jim Hardin wrote:That could turn out to be a far bigger project than a purchaser may realize.

A neglected aircraft could need a ‘Top’ overhaul for the engine. If fabric it will likely need recovered. If metal there is likely places where corrosion has won and need to be replaced... Could have expensive ADs that need to be applied.

The price you can afford may not be th price you expected. Obviously a close inspection by an A&P who is familiar with that aircraft is in order.

All very true, there can be many gremlins lurking that are not seen until it's too late. What seemed "affordable" at first can become a money pit quickly, especially in aviation. A VERY thorough pre buy would be in order.

The opinions posted are those of one CFI, and do not necessarily represent the FAA or its lawyers.Prof H Paul ShuchPhD CFII DPE LSRM-A/GL/WS/PPC iRMTAvSport LLC, KLHVfly@AvSport.orgAvSport.org facebook.com/SportFlyingSportPilotExaminer.US

Usually a Hi-Max was flown under Part 103. Some were "fat" but if the builder kept things uncomplicated and light it could be a legal "ultralight."

Many ultralight pilots taught themselves to fly and all of the early aviation pioneers did. When a person with enough disposable income for flying starts telling someone who saved their lunch-money for years that there are not any affordable options for them to fly, I say "climb down from your high throne" and promote entry level aviation.

Here's my advice to the OP. Read and learn everything you can about how a plane flies, especially the book Stick and Rudder, by by Wolfgang Langewiesche. Hang out at the airport a little and just listen. Find a nearby ultralight hobby group and see if they know someone who has owned a Hi-Max or Mini-Max. Maybe they do and that pilot can help you make sure the plane is airworthy. Perhaps they may even test-fly it for you and help you work the bugs out if any exists. They can get it flying good before you try out the cockpit.

When I met him 25 years ago, my Sport DPE was the President of The Georgia Sport Flyers and owned a Mini-Max. It flew well on a Rotax 447 and I saw it pass through 3 owners' over the next decades. It never got bent or wrecked and taught 4 or 5 pilots to fly, a couple of them self taught.

The ultralight pilots I know who taught themselves to fly, were ALL RC Pilots for years! Before they ever sat in a running ultralight, they had learned enough flying R/C that they could explain things like why a plane can stall even in a vertical, nose-down dive, what overbanking tendency and adverse yaw were. They knew a lot about a 2-stroke engine and how to keep it form quitting.is an

What I am trying to say to the OP is...Get you a cheap, used, 40 size high-wing trainer and GET AN EXPERIENCED R/C'r to teach you to fly it. DO NOT TRY TO FLY IT YOURSELF. Real-Flight computer simulator is an option to speed up learning. Fly Microsoft Flightsim and skills will come.

Teaching yourself to fly is dangerous if you don't tippy-toe in. Go slow and DON'T GET DEAD! Good luck. I taught myself to fly in this $2500 Tierra. It had a single ignition (points)/dual carb 503 on it with a cogbelt prop drive. I put almost 150 hours on it and because of its ground handling characteristics, I feel a Pitts S-2 would be a piece of cake. If you look real closely at the vertical pipe under the horizontal stab, you can see the 12 Volt Black & Decker drill installed as an electric elevator trim

This forum is Sport Pilot Talk, not Ultralight Talk. I think most of us assumed the OP wanted to learn to fly as a Sport Pilot. Nobody here had any sort of attitude or were talking down to the OP. He said he wanted to "do it the right way" and wanted to purchase a Zenith 701. Maybe your idea of the right way differs from the experience most of us had. Personally, I would never advise the OP to teach himself to fly. If anyone wants to discuss flying ultralights, maybe they should visit an ultralight forum where they can get advice from people who are doing that.

Personally, I resent your statement:

"Many ultralight pilots taught themselves to fly and all of the early aviation pioneers did. When a person with enough disposable income for flying starts telling someone who saved their lunch-money for years that there are not any affordable options for them to fly, I say "climb down from your high throne" and promote entry level aviation."

We were all trying to help the OP "do it the right way," not teach himself to fly.

Jim Hardin wrote:That could turn out to be a far bigger project than a purchaser may realize.

A neglected aircraft could need a ‘Top’ overhaul for the engine. If fabric it will likely need recovered. If metal there is likely places where corrosion has won and need to be replaced... Could have expensive ADs that need to be applied.

The price you can afford may not be th price you expected. Obviously a close inspection by an A&P who is familiar with that aircraft is in order.

A Hi-Max is an all wood airplane that is glued together like an R/C model. Most of them had a single cylinder Rotax 447 I think.

bryancobb wrote:Waaahhh! The truth upsets me sometimes too when I don't like what's being said. I am most proud when entry-level aviation is promoted and new enthusiastic young pilots are encouraged.

Implying this new guy is not welcome here if his Hi-Max weighs 255+ pounds is a little bit on the "not very nice" side isn't it?

He is certainly welcome here. I said if he or YOU want to discuss ultralights, you might want to go to an ultralight site. Most of us probably never flew an ultralight. We were giving him advice about how to become a Sport Pilot which, I think, is what he was asking about. Why are you taking us to task for trying to answer the OP's questions and trying to help him figure out how to become a Sport Pilot? He was even talking about doing his training in a Cherokee.

A new guy named Firsttimefly... on his 16th post was unsure of how good or bad his Hi-Max might fly and he was very limited on funds and that was why he bought the Hi-Max.

On the first reply, you asking bluntly ...How he was going to learn to fly a single seat airplane? It went even further down Not Nice Street when you implied immaturity and asked how old he was. When I read that, I felt bad for him because he seemed excited about his plane and was seeking acceptance from forum members.

I'm a little more concerned about you hurting HIS feelings than ME hurting yours. My post with Tierra pictures was 100% targeted at building him up and letting him know that his Hi-Max may very well be a way to get in the air if he approaches it slowly and correctly. It was a pretty good-flying entry level plane. If I interpreted his post correctly, my post answered his question honestly and made him feel welcome.

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Last edited by bryancobb on Fri Jan 11, 2019 9:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Yes, I wanted to know if he was a 16 year old or an adult. It would make a difference on how to advise him. Again, why are you taking us to task for trying to answer the OP's questions and help him become a Sport Pilot? This site is probably not the place to find out how to teach yourself to fly an ultralight by flying RC's and Microsoft Flight Simulator, and that's not the question he asked.

You might be surprised at how many of us have flown N-numbered ELSAs that were originally fat ultralights. There were about 8000 converted before the statute of limitations ran out. I've even given a SP checkride in one, to a former Part 103 guy who decided to go get licensed. My very first SP graduate owned an ultralight in which he had flown maybe 100 hours before he decided to get it, and himself, licensed. Ultralights were (and can still be) a good portal of entry into "real" flying. So let's make sure those guys and gals feel welcome on SportPilotTalk.

The opinions posted are those of one CFI, and do not necessarily represent the FAA or its lawyers.Prof H Paul ShuchPhD CFII DPE LSRM-A/GL/WS/PPC iRMTAvSport LLC, KLHVfly@AvSport.orgAvSport.org facebook.com/SportFlyingSportPilotExaminer.US

You might be surprised at how many of us have flown N-numbered ELSAs that were originally fat ultralights. There were about 8000 converted before the statute of limitations ran out. I've even given a SP checkride in one, to a former Part 103 guy who decided to go get licensed. Ultralights were (and can still be) a good portal of entry into "real" flying. So let's make sure those guys and gals feel welcome on SportPilotTalk.

Nobody said or implied they were not welcome. You actually participated in this thread and advised the OP to get a good pre-buy. Were you being elitest for not advising him to teach himself to fly in his single seat ultralight? Also, aren't those guys all Sport Pilots (or higher) now if flying LSA's that were once considered ultralights?

Actually, I soloed my brother's two-seat FlightStar ultralight after 15 minutes of dual and 2 takeoff's and landings. Unfortunately, he got sick and did not get it converted to LSA.

Last edited by TimTaylor on Fri Jan 11, 2019 10:00 pm, edited 2 times in total.