The difference is, he has explicitly said he will leave instructions refusing to let anyone finish it if he dies before it's done. RJ's widow at least found Brandon Sanderson to finish the job and he did fairly well IMO.

From what I understand, he has already spoken with HBO that, in case he isn't able to finish writing the books due to having to take time off to deliver Christmas presents to all the good little boys and girls (or dying), they know where he intends on taking the series. They won't have book material to work with, but they have the general blueprints so they can do up to season... 7? I think? Something like that.

OldRod:jakomo002: He's going to go all Robert Jordan on us, I know it.

/lose weight!

The difference is, he has explicitly said he will leave instructions refusing to let anyone finish it if he dies before it's done. RJ's widow at least found Brandon Sanderson to finish the job and he did fairly well IMO.

I was hoping George R.R. Martin would just ask the contributors to the Wild Cards series to finish it up. I thought that project was pretty good.

With 5+ years between books, I've pretty much accepted the inevitable that he's never going to finish them and that the only way we're going to see how the story ends is with the HBO series. So I guess I'm OK with George working on his Silmarllion.

RoxtarRyan:balfourk: The only "Stat" that Martin is going to here is the nurse yelling for some meds to help him recover in the emergency room. That man does not look too healthy nor young.

This

Ned Stark: Cry more. You aren't owed anything.

and That.

From what I understand, he has already spoken with HBO that, in case he isn't able to finish writing the books due to having to take time off to deliver Christmas presents to all the good little boys and girls (or dying), they know where he intends on taking the series. They won't have book material to work with, but they have the general blueprints so they can do up to season... 7? I think? Something like that.

OldRod:jakomo002: He's going to go all Robert Jordan on us, I know it.

/lose weight!

The difference is, he has explicitly said he will leave instructions refusing to let anyone finish it if he dies before it's done. RJ's widow at least found Brandon Sanderson to finish the job and he did fairly well IMO.

The version I've heard is that he's actually got a guy lined up to finish the series: the man has copies of all his notes and everything.

Tyrone Slothrop:So just as a thought exercise, if he keeled over tomorrow, who would you like to see finish the books?

Joe Abercrombie. Without a doubt. Still, I can't believe anyone is still holding out hope for this ever being finished. I've already given up twice, once waiting for Crows and the final time after finishing it. Maybe I'll pick up the series again if the final book is ever published, but I just don't give a shiat anymore.

Guess my hopes that GRRM would get locked in an empty room with only periodic feedings of low cal foods so that he could finish the %$#^&^* books already are dashed beyond repair./liked a few things about the show but adore, love, and devour the books//yep, I'm one of them

First three books flowed like water, he had a ton of story to tell and he told it well. And then it just stopped, he hd ideas he had random thoughts how to continue, and scribbled them out, and crossed them out, and restarted etc.

Truth is the story is done, he has no idea to get from book three to the end, the last two books attest to that, what a mess.

gorgon38:First three books flowed like water, he had a ton of story to tell and he told it well. And then it just stopped, he hd ideas he had random thoughts how to continue, and scribbled them out, and crossed them out, and restarted etc.

Truth is the story is done, he has no idea to get from book three to the end, the last two books attest to that, what a mess.

Just because he added a bunch of unneeded bullsh** (looking at you Dorn), doesn't mean he has no idea. What the man doesn't have is an editor to tell him "No, these chapters suck stop writing about those characters".

ShadowKamui:gorgon38: First three books flowed like water, he had a ton of story to tell and he told it well. And then it just stopped, he hd ideas he had random thoughts how to continue, and scribbled them out, and crossed them out, and restarted etc.

Truth is the story is done, he has no idea to get from book three to the end, the last two books attest to that, what a mess.

Just because he added a bunch of unneeded bullsh** (looking at you Dorn), doesn't mean he has no idea. What the man doesn't have is an editor to tell him "No, these chapters suck stop writing about those characters".

Seriously? Among my group of friends, we think the Dorne chapters are some of the best. I'm thinking of one in particular in AFFC that just gave me chills.

ShadowKamui:gorgon38: First three books flowed like water, he had a ton of story to tell and he told it well. And then it just stopped, he hd ideas he had random thoughts how to continue, and scribbled them out, and crossed them out, and restarted etc.

Truth is the story is done, he has no idea to get from book three to the end, the last two books attest to that, what a mess.

Just because he added a bunch of unneeded bullsh** (looking at you Dorn), doesn't mean he has no idea. What the man doesn't have is an editor to tell him "No, these chapters suck stop writing about those characters".

Martin is known to say the story grows with the telling. What was originally a trilogy is now a heptology. He's has writers block or indifference since A Storm of Swords. Editor or not, he doesn't know how to get to the end from the midway point in the written word. I anticipate he may let the show handle it instead, since crafting a script to meet your vision when already given limits for time and money is much easier than crafting a book when you have no limits at all and people bugging you every day to get it done.

The thing that got me was how he ended both books four and five on cliffhangers of varying importance. The first three books had satisfying climaxes, but four and five had no real satisfactory conclusions, just "Oh, this character is in mortal peril" or "What important thing did this character shout?" or whatever.

Bunny Deville:Seriously? Among my group of friends, we think the Dorne chapters are some of the best. I'm thinking of one in particular in AFFC that just gave me chills.

The Dorne characters are very compelling(including some of the ones that are only mentioned in passing, like the Darkstar, Gerold Dayne), but the story being told isn't terribly necessary. There is a lot of fluff in there.

Honestly, that should be the way it ends. It would make sense. The various factions of Westeros are far too busy tearing each other down to unify in any meaningful way once the true threat breaches The Wall. Daenerys Targaryen could maybe do something about it, but the bout of Sudden Onset Stupidity that she caught in Meereen will prevent her from building ships of any sort. There will be a dragon in Westeros, but only because Victarion Greyjoy yoinked it, and he'll be too busy using it to burn Euron to ash, stacking the ashes up into a little pile, and burning the ashes again, to help out.

Oh, and also, Melisandre will try to raise Jon Snow, but he'll have warg'd into the first thing around in order to save his life, and thus will be forced spend the rest of the series in the body of a wandering Great Dane, trying in vain to rally the Night's Watch in a Scooby-Doo voice.

bhcompy:Bunny Deville: Seriously? Among my group of friends, we think the Dorne chapters are some of the best. I'm thinking of one in particular in AFFC that just gave me chills.

The Dorne characters are very compelling(including some of the ones that are only mentioned in passing, like the Darkstar, Gerold Dayne), but the story being told isn't terribly necessary. There is a lot of fluff in there.

I'm willing to see how that angle plays out. Doran is playing a long game, one which appears to coming to a conclusion soon. I think mostly it's just that people are pissed at having to wait to see why things are significant.

bhcompy:Bunny Deville: Seriously? Among my group of friends, we think the Dorne chapters are some of the best. I'm thinking of one in particular in AFFC that just gave me chills.

The Dorne characters are very compelling(including some of the ones that are only mentioned in passing, like the Darkstar, Gerold Dayne), but the story being told isn't terribly necessary. There is a lot of fluff in there.

You can't know that. You just can't. I've heard certain theories about both characters that make it absolut y necessary that their story be told.

Cagey B:bhcompy: Bunny Deville: Seriously? Among my group of friends, we think the Dorne chapters are some of the best. I'm thinking of one in particular in AFFC that just gave me chills.

The Dorne characters are very compelling(including some of the ones that are only mentioned in passing, like the Darkstar, Gerold Dayne), but the story being told isn't terribly necessary. There is a lot of fluff in there.

I'm willing to see how that angle plays out. Doran is playing a long game, one which appears to coming to a conclusion soon. I think mostly it's just that people are pissed at having to wait to see why things are significant.

Or we could have him rush it and end up with the Dark Tower 5, 6, and 7. I'm okay to wait.

i think the problem was also the fact that books 1 through 3 led up to such a big series of amazing climaxes, but books 4 and 5 were sort of dealing with the aftermath of all of that and building up to something else. so it seems like books 4 and 5 were boring compared to the first three.

but i'm a writer myself (albeit an unpublished one) so i know how it feels to build up tons and tons of plot and not being able to whittle it down to a workable storyline. he let himself introduce too many characters and now it hampers the narrative because there are so many different points of view to deal with. and those are huge books, so it's not like he can just crank out 1000 pages in three weeks. that takes months and months of writing and rewriting to get that much done. so i would expect it to take him two or three years to write the next book. however, i would be absolutely stunned if he finishes it by 2017. he's not a fast writer and he has a million other things going on right now, so the fans are just going to have to deal with that.

Bunny Deville:bhcompy: Bunny Deville: Seriously? Among my group of friends, we think the Dorne chapters are some of the best. I'm thinking of one in particular in AFFC that just gave me chills.

The Dorne characters are very compelling(including some of the ones that are only mentioned in passing, like the Darkstar, Gerold Dayne), but the story being told isn't terribly necessary. There is a lot of fluff in there.

You can't know that. You just can't. I've heard certain theories about both characters that make it absolut y necessary that their story be told.

I can't know that, but I know that with the Wheel of Time it caused many many many individuals to toss the books out, and Martin avoided that trap mostly within the first 3 books.

If you need to tell a backstory/sidestory that is this involved and that pulls you from the story this much, release a novella. We don't need to know every detail to get the gist of a situation. If you truly must do that, do it in a compelling fashion, like Steven Erikson did with the Letheras books in the Malazan series. I shouldn't need to tolerate something for the sake of the story. If it can't be crafted in a way that enhances the story, it shouldn't be part of it(of course that's the editor's job)

bhcompy:If you need to tell a backstory/sidestory that is this involved and that pulls you from the story this much, release a novella. We don't need to know every detail to get the gist of a situation. If you truly must do that, do it in a compelling fashion, like Steven Erikson did with the Letheras books in the Malazan series. I shouldn't need to tolerate something for the sake of the story. If it can't be crafted in a way that enhances the story, it shouldn't be part of it(of course that's the editor's job)

I agree that he could be more succinct in places, but it's really hard to judge what will be important until the work is completed. GRRM is big on hiding the nail that the kingdom was lost for want of. He wants it to be another background detail until all of a sudden the consequences smack you in the face. I mean, how Tywin dealt with Tryrion's first wife, before the series even started, has had a huge impact on the Seven Kingdoms.

LiquidTester:willfullyobscure: I found the books so unutterably soul-crushing and riddled with senseless horror that the strongest emotion they evoked in me was relief that I leave in a solidly blue state in 2013.

Is the TV show worth getting into or does it accurately reflect the yawning gulf of deadening, unremitting misery and depression of the books?

(I'll be asking this in every RR Martin thread until I get a satisfactory answer, btw)

Yes. If that answer isn't satisfactory, then no.

okay.jpg

Abner Doon:willfullyobscure: I found the books so unutterably soul-crushing and riddled with senseless horror that the strongest emotion they evoked in me was relief that I leave in a solidly blue state in 2013.

Is the TV show worth getting into or does it accurately reflect the yawning gulf of deadening, unremitting misery and depression of the books?

(I'll be asking this in every RR Martin thread until I get a satisfactory answer, btw)

Except for a few details here and there, it's exactly the same story. The format makes events come more quickly, but that doesn't really change the basic feel of the story.

If you felt that negatively about the books, it's unlikely you'll enjoy the series.

interesting. I find a show acted and directed by other humans can have a radically different effect than reading a story, and can successfully make objectively awful material uplifting thanks to dramatic effect and tone. Stephen King books are usually a dreary slog but can be made into very watchable movies, for example. Or blowing up the Death Star- on paper, the equivalent of Horoshima or Dresden- on screen, it's cathartic and climatic.

Gaiman makes one important mistake in that argument. he assumes readers purchased and received "Game of Thrones" and therefore GRRM doesn't owe them anything. Many readers however purchased "A song of ice and fire part 1" which has an implied assumption that there will be a part 2, part 3 etc until the series is finished. By going nearly 2 decades without finishing the damn series and 4-5 years between books he is not only ignoring that agreement he is almost in uncharted territory for a popular fantasy author.

Gaiman never addresses the question "Would readers have paid $10 for a book if GRRM said "This series is never going to be finished" or "The series won't be finished until 2020" Would people started it back in 1996 if they knew it still wouldn't be finished today? I know I wouldn't have I'd have put it off and read something else and I"m sure a lot of other people would have too.