Sample Deposition of Registered Nurse in Nursing Home Lawsuit

EXAMINATION

BY: MR. LEVINQ Ma'am, have you ever given a deposition before?A No.Q Everything I say to you and everything you say to me is being written down by the court reporter. Do you understand that?A Uh-huh.Q One other little rule is if you answer a question, it would help if you answer yes or no as opposed to shaking your head or saying uh-huh because it is hard for her to get that down when you do that. Is that okay?A Fine.Q If you don't understand my question, if you need a break, if you want to speak with your attorney, you are free to do that at any time, okay?A Fine.Q Now you are a registered nurse; is that correct?A I am.Q And when did you become a registered nurse?A 1955.Q So have you been practicing in the nursing field since 1955?A Yes.Q So that's approximately 45 years, correct?A Yes.Q How long have you been at the Oak Lawn Pavilion nursing center?A December 3rd it will be 23 years.Q So that you would have started December 3rd of what year?A '77.Q And has that been full-time employment since that time?A Yes.Q And what is your current position at Oak Lawn Pavilion?A Director of nursing.Q And for how long have you been director of nursing?A Four years.Q So you would have started what, sometime around 1996?A Correct.Q Do you remember what month?A January.Q So from January of 1996 until today, you are the director of nurses, correct?A Correct.Q And what was your title before January of 1996?A Assistant director of nursing.Q And how long did you hold that position?A Since 1977.Q So from 1977 to 1996, you were assistant DON; and then in January of 1996, you became the DON, correct?A Correct.Q Had you made any efforts to try to become DON before that?A No.Q Do you remember Antoni Pietrzyk?A I do.Q And do you know the approximate dates when he was a resident at the nursinghome?A I think his admission was 1993.Q Do you know when he died?A No, I don't. I forgot.Q You don't remember the year?A I don't remember.Q So you don't remember for example, if he died in 1993, 1994, 1994, 1995, 1996? If you don't, that's fine?A I don't. I would be guessing. I don't want to.Q And by the same token, I take it you don't know how long he was a resident of the nursinghome, correct?A He was admitted in 1993.Q But you don't know how long he stayed in the nursinghome, correct?A I think it was two years, '95.Q Did you in preparation for your deposition today review any records?A I reviewed his chart, right.Q And that's his chart that's kept at the nursinghome?A Correct.Q So when you say you remember -- What name did you know him by?A Tony.Q When you say you remember Tony, do you remember the person; or do you remember it after reading the chart?MR. MACHALINSKI: Or both?BY MR. LEVIN:Q Or both?A Both.Q Now the chart that you read, is that what's been brought here today?A That's correct.MR. LEVIN: This document here (indicating), is this the chart itself?MR. MACHALINSKI: Yes. For the record I have brought with me the original chart which she has reviewed, and she has also reviewed the medical records that were previously marked as Largosa Exhibit No. 2 and 3 dated 4-22-98 which are basically the same records with the addition of the additional records recently produced Bates stamps I through 182.BY MR. LEVIN:Q Okay. There are two -- There are three things that we could call charts from the nursinghome. There is a chart that has a date of admission June 23, '93; is that correct?A Correct.Q And that apparently was his chart from June 23, 1993 until November 1, 1994, correct?A Correct.Q And then there is a second chart that's dated 11-10-94 that's his from 11-10-94 until he was discharged on February 20, '95, correct?A Correct.Q And you have read the entirety of both those charts in preparation for your deposition?A Yes.Q And then there is another document which is -- The first page of it says minimum data set which is has just very recently been produced to me. Where was that kept up? Are you the one that located this document?A Yes.Q Where did you find it?A I don't know why it wasn't copied with the others. I don't know why.Q So in other words, all three of these charts are kept in the same place, correct?A Yes, I presume so. Medical records handles that.Q But for some reason when the other charts were given to us -- Do you mind if we put a sticker on here somewhere, Don?MR. MACHALINSKI: Sure. Do you want to do it on the original, or do you want to do it on the photocopy with the Bates stamps?MR. LEVIN: Good question. Why don't we do it on the original? Will you put a sticker on -- make it Deposition Exhibit No. 1, 2 and 3.MR. MACHALINSKI: Off the record.(WHEREUPON Chisholm Deposition Exhibit Nos. 1-3 were marked as of 9-20-00.)MR. LEVIN: Now just for the purpose of the record, we have marked as Deposition Exhibit No. I the original nursinghome chart for the admission that begins on June 23, '93.We have marked as Deposition Exhibit No. 2, the nursinghome chart that begins with the admission 11-10-94. And we have marked as Deposition Exhibit No. 3 various sections of the chart consisting of things like minimum data sets and care plans and some miscellaneous hospital records and other documents; is that correct?MR. MACHALINSKI: Yes.BY MR. LEVIN:Q And for whatever reason, ma'am, that you don't know when we were produced Deposition Exhibit No. I or 2 as part of the nursinghome chart, we were never given Deposition Exhibit No. 3?A Medical records apparently didn't include it.Q Did you talk to anyone from medical records, and get any insight as to how that happened?A No.Q How were you able to get Deposition Exhibit No. 3?A Medical records gave it to me.Q Who do you speak to there?A Linda Parnell is medical records.Q What did you ask her?A I said I wanted the complete chart. And she produced this along with it. And so I don't know who originally copied it because she has only been there a year.Q But whenever you recently asked Linda Parnell for the original chart, she gave you Deposition Exhibit Nos. 1, 2 and 3, correct?A Right.Q Were you present at the nursinghome on the day Tony got out of the nursinghome and was injured?A Not to my recollection. I can't remember.Q Do you know how long after the incident you first found out about it?A It would have been the following day.Q Do you remember that or are you just --A Not really, no.Q Let me ask you again. The incident involving Tony occurred on November 1, 1994, and it is your recollection that you were not present in the home on that date, correct?A Correct.Q You did find out about the incident sometime after November 1, 1994; is that correct?A Correct.Q But what you don't know is when that was, correct?A Correct.Q And there is no way you could refresh your recollection on that issue, correct?A Correct.Q Now did you interview any of the people on staff on the day that he was injured to find out what happened? I'm not suggesting it was your job. I'm just curious.A No, not to my recollection.Q So as far as you know, did you perform any investigation of any kind to try to find out the facts and circumstances how it came to be that he was able to get out of the home on that day?A Personally I didn't, no. I don't know what the facility did.Q You don't know if the facility did or did not do an investigation, correct?A Correct.Q So you anticipated my question which was good. But now I have to ask it again. So you, Nurse Chisholm, never performed any investigation of any kind to try to determine how it came to be that Tony got out of the nursinghome, correct?A Correct.Q And if anyone in the facility ever performed any kind of investigation to determine how Tony got out of the facility, you don't know whether they did do that or they did not, correct?A Correct.Q So as we sit here today in the year 2000, you don't know if the facility ever investigated circumstances surrounding how Tony got out of the home, correct?A Right.Q And of course, that would also mean you never talked to anybody who purported to have any information on the subject as to how he got out of the home, correct?A Correct.Q And you didn't participate in any meetings or seminars or discussions or anything after he got out of the home to try to figure out how it happened, or what could be done to prevent something like that in the future, correct?A Correct.Q Do you know who in the nursinghome -- Is there anyone who was working at the nursinghome in November of 1994 that in your opinion, as the assistant director of nurses at the time, who would have had the obligation to try to investigate this incident?A The director of nursing.MR. LEVIN: Excuse me one second off the record.(WHEREUPON a discussion was held off the Record, and the deposition continued as follows:)BY MR. LEVIN:Q So is it your opinion that on November 1, 1994 that if an investigation was going to be conducted of the incident involving Tony, that that would have been the director of nurses job?A Correct.Q And what was her name at that time -- It is probably the same name. Who was she on November 1, 1994?A Maria Baker.Q Does she work with the home anymore?A No.Q Do you know when she left the home?A Let's see. It was the fall of- I'm trying to think.Q Take your time.A It was around Christmastime, I think.Q Of what year?A Just before I was DON.Q Right. So she would have left -- If you were DON in January of '96, she would have left around December of '95, correct?A I think so.Q Do you know why she left?A Not really, no.Q Was she fired?MR. MACHALINSKI: I don't want you to guess or speculate.THE WITNESS: Pardon me?MR. MACHALINSKI: I don't want you to get or speculate. If you know, you know.THE WITNESS: I don't really know.BY MR. LEVIN:Q You mean one day you came to work, and the next day she was gone; is that right?A Correct. I don't know. I don't know.Q You may not know the details, but --A I don't know.Q -- when they gave you the job, I assume there must have been some discussions as to why your predecessor had left, correct?A No, there wasn't.Q Who hired you?A The administrator and the owner.Q What was the name of the people that hired you?A Robert Grinker was the administrator.Q And who is the owner?A Michael Learner.Q Is he still the owner?THE WITNESS: Uh-huh.MR. MACHALINSKI: Is that a yes?THE WITNESS: Yes.BY MR. LEVIN:Q So when did Michael -- Who first approached you about whether you wanted to be DON?A Mr. Grinker.Q When did he do that?A It was a couple weeks after Ms. Baker left. I was acting DON.Q So I assume what, one day you came to work and Ms. Baker was gone?A Correct.Q And you had no forewarning or foreknowledge, foreshadowing?A No, I didn't.Q And on that same day someone said, Mary Lou, you are DON today?A No. I was acting DON.Q But someone said to you you have got to be the acting DON?A I had been acting DON on several occasions. When the DONs left, I was acting DON.Q I assume a lot of DONs have left?A No, about four.Q Four since when?A The last 22 years -- I should say about 18.Q Whenever it was that you found out that she left and you became the acting DON did you ask anyone where she was, or how she left or any of the circumstances?A It wasn't discussed. It just wasn't discussed.Q My question is: Did you ask anyone what happened to her?A No, I didn't. I didn't. It is things like that you don't talk about.Q When you say things like that you don't talk about, what do you mean?A It was an event and I didn't question it that much.Q What was the event though that you didn't question?A The fact that she was gone.MR MACHALINSKI: Mary Lou, make sure you allow him to finish his question before you begin answering it.THE WITNESS: I'm sorry.MR. MACHALINSKI: That's all right.BY MR. LEVIN:Q Was there any discussion that you had with anybody in the nursinghome that anyone suggested any reason why this DON just left?A I don't know if either side was unhappy with how things were or whatever, I don't know. I could not speculate.Q So you don't know whether Nurse Baker quit, was fired, died, disappeared?A No.Q Just one day she is gone and you are the DON, and that's all you know?A Correct. I wasn't the DON until about a month later.Q One day she was gone, you become the ADON?A The acting DON.Q Do you know where Nurse Baker is now?A Yes.Q Where is that?A She is employed at Emerald Park.Q Do you stay in touch with her?A I talk to her every once in awhile.Q Did she ever at any point express to you any negative feelings about Oak Lawn Pavilion?A No.Q Is she the DON do you know at Emerald Park?A Yes, she is.Q Do you know how long she has been the DON there?A I think when she left our facility, she went over there and worked as a staff nurse. And then she was assistant director, and then I think probably the last couple of years she has been the director of nursing. I don't know for sure though.Q Are you social friends with her?A I see her occasionally. I talk to her like regarding patients, too.Q And you have kept up this relationship with her since '96?A Yes.Q And in all the times you talked to her in '96, there was not a single discussion about the circumstances as to why she left?A No, no.Q Do you know if anybody else who would have been caring for and Antoni or Tony around November of '94 when this incident happened is still with the nursinghome?A Yes.Q Who is that?A Eileen Walczak.Q What was her role with Tony?A She was his primary nurse.Q And she is still there?A Correct. She was Eileen Boland according to the chart. She has since gotten married.Q What is her full name now?A Eileen, Walczak, W-A-L-C-Z-A-K.Q And what is her title?A Right now she is doing treatment. She is a treatment nurse.Q What was her title or what was her job in November of '94?A She was Tony's primary nurse.Q And by primary nurse what does that mean?A She took care of him. I mean made sure that his needs were met.Q Did she work the day shift in November of '94?A Correct.Q So that would be the --A -- 7:00 to 3:00.Q And she would have worked on the second floor then?A Correct.Q She is an R.N.?A She is an L.P.N.Q Was she there in '93 also?A She was.MR. LEVIN: Off the record.(WHEREUPON a discussion was held off the Record, and the deposition continued as follows:)BY MR. LEVIN:Q But at any rate if Tony was there from June of 1993 until February of 1995, the woman now known as Eileen Walczak was his primary nurse during that period of time?A Correct.Q By primary nurse you mean the nurse that worked with him on the 7:00 to 3:00 shift, who is probably the person who knows most about him?A Correct.Q What was her maiden name?A Boland, B-O-L-A-N-D.Q And do you know when she became Walczak for the purpose of looking in the record?A I was at her wedding, June -- like June 4th, of '97 '98.Q Now have you -- In preparation for your deposition today, did you speak to her about Tony?A No.Q Have you ever spoken to her about Tony -- Have you ever had any conversations with Eileen Boland about Tony that you remember?A The only conversation I would have had would have been when he was a resident there regarding his care.Q Do you remember any of those conversations?A Not really, no.Q Did you ever discuss the incident of his wandering away from the nursinghome with Eileen?A Not that I can remember, no.Q So would it be correct to say that you have no idea of what Eileen's thoughts would be on that subject as to how he got out, whether he was being watched, any of the circumstances; is that correct?A Correct.Q And you don't know if Eileen ever participated in any way in any investigation of the circumstances as to how Tony got out?A I don't know. I don't know at all.Q Now other than Eileen Walczak formerly known as Eileen Boland, is there anybody else at the nursinghome that you know that cared for Tony around the time of this event of November 1, 1994?A That's currently employed --Q Yes.A -- at the nursinghome? No, Eileen would be the only one.Q I assume in looking through the chart, you saw the names of various people, correct?A Correct.MR. MACHALINSKI: Could I go off the record for a second?MR. LEVIN: Yes.(WHEREUPON a discussion was held off the Record, and the deposition continued as follows:)BY MR. LEVIN:Q Doris Bradley is a C. N. A.?A Correct.Q And she was a C. N. A. at the time Tony was a resident at the nursinghome?A Correct.Q For the period June of '93 through February of '95, she was a C. N. A.?A Correct.Q And do you know what shift she works on?A 3:00 to 11:00.Q And she would have been on the C. N. A. on the second floor in charge of, among other patients, Tony?A That I don't know if it was her assignment to take care of him.Q But she was on the second floor?A She was on the second floor.Q And have you ever discussed Tony's case with her?A No.Q And do you have any idea if she is aware of any of the facts and circumstances surrounding how he got out of thenursinghome?A No.Q Would it be fair to say that you would be the supervisor -- Strike that.During the time that Tony was a resident of the nursinghome, would you have been Doris Bradley's supervisor?A Not on 3:00 to 11:00, no. I worked 7:00 to 3:00.Q Would you have been Eileen Boland's supervisor?A Correct.Q And so during the period of time that Tony was in the nursinghome, you would have been Eileen Boland's supervisor, correct?A Correct.Q During the time that Tony was in the nursinghome, do you remember the time now June of '93 through February of '95, was the same administrator always there?A I think it was Les Oaken, Mr. Oaken.Q At some point after that it became Robert Grinker?A Right.Q And you're not sure when that happened, correct?A No.Q How many administrators have you had since 1993?A We just have a new one now. Since I have been employed, I have gone through seven.Q Seven?A And that's since 1977.Q And it is your best recollection that for the time that Tony was at the nursinghome for some period of time Les Oaken was the administrator, and for some period of the time Robert Grinker was the administrator; is that fair?MR. MACHALINSKI: Could I have that question read back?(WHEREUPON said Record was read as requested.)MR. MACHALINSKI: I'm going to object. I think it mischaracterizes her testimony. You can answer that if you can. Do you understand the question?BY MR. LEVIN:Q Let me ask it more simply.A Okay.Q Name all the administrators who were the administrators of the home during the time that Tony was a resident?MR. MACHALINSKI: Between June of '93 and February of '95?MR. LEVIN: Correct.THE WITNESS: To my recollection, it would have been Les Oaken and Robert Grinker.BY MR. LEVIN:Q And what you don't recall is when Robert[Note: Pages 30-33 missing in original document]Q And you have no idea how he could have gotten from the second floor to the first floor, correct?A Correct.Q Theoretically if he went from the second floor to the first floor, he should have set off some alarms, correct?A Correct.Q And if he set off the alarms, that should have alerted the nurse to take action to notice that he was doing that, correct?A Correct.Q And if the alarms for what ever reason weren't working, that would have been a violation of the procedures of thenursinghome in effect at that time, correct?MR. MACHALINSKI: I'm just going to object. The witness hasn't been produced as an opinion witness. And to the extent that the question calls for the witness to speculate or suppose or offer an opinion, I think it is objectionable. You can answer that if you can. Do you want the question read back?THE WITNESS: I have no opinion on that.BY MR. LEVIN:Q You have no opinion as to whether or not the alarms on the second floor were required to be in working order?A True.Q You have no opinion as to whether on the day that Tony got out of the nursinghome whether the alarms were or were not in working order, correct?A Right.Q I mean as far as you know, the alarms could have not been working for a month before the incident, or they could have been working on the incident, you have no idea either way, correct?MR. MACHALINSKI: I'm just going to object. The question is argumentative.MR. LEVIN: I don't mean to argue.BY MR. LEVIN:Q Is that right?A That's correct.Q I mean you don't know for example, -- Do you know how many alarms were actually on how many doors on the second floor of the nursinghome on November 1, 1994?A How many alarms there are there?Q There were there on that day?A They have always been there. Let's see there is one, two -- On the second floor I think there are three.Q Three alarms?A Three working alarms.Q Can you like identify what doors you think they were on on that day, November 1, 1994, just by maybe describing it? I had a diagram of the home. I don't have it right here. Go ahead.A The south end has a door.Q Yes.A The north end and the far north there is one going downstairs to the first floor dining room.Q So talking about the alarm on the south end, do you know how long that exact alarm that you think was on that door on that day had been there?A Those alarms have been there a long time.Q Have they been there since 1977, since you got there?A I don't know. I can't remember.Q So assuming for the sake of discussion, there was alarm on the second floor south door that you described, you don't know how long it had been there, correct?A Quite a while.Q Do you know if it had been there --A I can't give an exact date.Q Do you know if it had been there one year, two years, five years? I don't want you to guess. But if you have an estimate, tell me your estimate?A I have none.Q This may come up later.A I have none.Q Let me ask the question again. You don't know how long the alarm that you have described as being on the second floor south door had been there, correct?A Correct.Q And if there was an alarm there on November 1, 1994, you have no idea when it had last been serviced, correct?A Correct.Q Do you know if it was a battery operated alarm?A Yes, they are.Q So on November 1, 1994 you would have no way of knowing one way or another whether the battery was working, correct?A Well, if a resident attempts to go out, the board lights that locates the alarm.Q Okay. Would it be correct to say that at times before November of 1994, certain times those alarms weren't working, or the door would be left open?A No. They would be working.Q Do you know --A But the door would not be left open.Q Do you know who would have checked the alarm on November -- who was responsible for checking the alarms on the second floor in November of '94?A No, I don't know.Q It wasn't part of your duties to check the alarms to make sure they were working order, correct?A No.Q Were the alarms on each of the doors on the second floor identical as far as you know? Did they work the same way on the same system?A You know I don't know. I don't know.Q Do you know where the nursinghome got the alarms from?A No, I don't. The administration takes care of that.Q Was there someone who serviced the alarms as far as you know? And if you don't know, that's fine.A I don't know.Q I assume somebody has information as to how these alarms work, who serviced them, how often they were serviced, when they were ever checked, who replaced the batteries, who was responsible for checking their working order? Someone at the nursinghome probably had that job, correct?A Correct.Q It just wasn't you, correct?A Correct.Q So I'm wasting my time sort of asking you questions on this subject, correct?A Right.Q Obviously if for some reason the alarms weren't working, they should have been working, correct?A Correct.Q And if the alarm went off and someone didn't respond to it, they should have responded to it, correct?A Correct.Q By the way did you know Tony's wife Eryka? Had you ever met her?A Yes.Q One of the reasons Eryka brought Tony to the nursinghome was because he had this wandering problem, correct?A Correct.Q And the nursinghome, in essence, told Eryka that they would watch him to make sure he didn't get out of the nursinghome, correct?A Correct.Q That is sort of the promise that they made to Eryka, correct?A That's correct as far as I know.Q That was as far as you know the main reason that she brought him to the nursinghome, correct?A Correct.Q And the concern was that she expressed that I think you at the nursinghome agreed is that if he got out of the home, he didn't have the mental capacity to take appropriate care for his own safety, correct?MR. MACHALINSKI: I'm just going to object. It calls for speculation. You can answer that if you can.THE WITNESS: I don't know.BY MR. LEVIN:Q That's what the chart says, doesn't it?A Yes, it does.Q You know that. The chart says that we can't let Tony get out of the home because if he gets out of the home, he could endanger himself because he doesn't have the mental capacity to protect himself, correct?A Correct.Q And in fact on some occasions before November of '94, you saw in the chart that it said we have to make sure he doesn't get out of the home because he could wander away and get hit by a car, correct?MR MACHALINSKI: I'm going to object. It mischaracterizes the chart. You can answer that if you recall that specific entry.THE WITNESS: Where he left the facility?MR. MACHALINSKI: No. Why don't you read the question back?THE WITNESS: Yes.BY MR. LEVIN:Q Before -- We have sort of discussed what happened on -- your knowledge -- Let me back up. I'm getting ahead of myself. Let me back up. You have covered the second floor.But as far as you know, the procedures that were in effect in November of '94 would have been that if a resident was identified as a wanderer, he should not have been permitted to leave the second floor of the nursinghome, correct, without somebody following him or knowing where he was going, correct? That's true of Tony's case?A Right.Q So if Tony left the second floor of the nursinghome, somebody there should have known it and tried to find him, correct?A Correct.Q I mean that's their job, right?A Correct.Q But on November 1, 1994 was Tony supposed to be wearing a Wanderguard?A Yes.Q Do you know if he was or was not on that day?A To my knowledge, he had one on.Q But did you see it on him that day?A No, I didn't.Q So the truthful answer is you don't know whether he was wearing it or not that day, correct?A Correct.Q He should have been wearing it, correct?A Correct.Q But we know there were problems before the day he wandered away where it would come off, or he wasn't wearing it or things like that, correct?A That I don't know.Q Did you read anything like that in the chart?A No.Q If he wasn't wearing his Wanderguard on the day that he wandered out, somebody hadn't been doing their job at the nursinghome, correct?MR. MACHALINSKI: I'm going to object. It calls for speculation you can answer that if you can.THE WITNESS: Well, I'm just going to say I don't know.BY MR. LEVIN:Q Was it the job of the nurses who were caring for him in November of '94 before this incident happened to make sure that he was wearing his Wanderguard?A That's correct.Q Would it be fair to say that if he wasn't wearing his Wanderguard, then these nurses weren't doing their job?A I don't want to answer that.Q You don't want to?A I don't choose to.MR. MACHALINSKI: Well, you can't.THE WITNESS: I have to say yes or no?MR. MACHALINSKI: Yes, right.BY MR. LEVIN:Q You just have to tell the truth.A They should, yes.Q If he wasn't wearing his Wanderguard, then the nurses weren't doing their job, correct?A Correct.Q If they allowed him to get from the second floor to the first floor, they weren't doing their job, correct?A Correct.Q Now assuming somehow Tony got to the second floor, were there other safeguards to make sure that he didn't leave the home without the nursinghome people knowing?MR. MACHALINSKI: I'm going to object. I think you said got to the second floor.BY MR. LEVIN:Q No. Assume he got to the nurse floor. If he got to the first floor without anyone knowing, that meant that the standard of care hadn't been followed, correct?A Correct.Q Now let's assume he got to the first floor. Were there other safeguards to see that he didn't get out of the home undetected?A The rest of the doors were alarmed.Q How many doors were alarmed on the first floor?A All of them. The first floor lobby has the Wanderguard alarm, and then there is -- let's say one, two, three, four -- I think there are four.Q -- other alarms on the first floor?A Yes.Q And again you don't know who maintained those, how often they were maintained, how often the batteries were checked, who was supposed to do that? You don't know any of that information, correct?A No, I don't Correct.Q You don't know if the Wanderguard system itself was working on the day Tony got out of the home, do you?A No.Q It could have been working fine, it could have been broken for two weeks continually before that as far as you know, correct?MR. MACHALINSKI: I'm going to object. It calls for speculation.BY MR. LEVIN:Q You just don't know?A I don't know.Q And you don't know how often they serviced the Wanderguard alarm itself?A I don't know.Q Do you know if any of the basement doors were alarmed or locked?A Yes, the basement doors are alarmed also.Q They were alarmed on November 1, 1994? Yes?A Yes.Q Do you know exactly how the Wanderguard system worked on November 1, '94, in other words, what would happen, when it would go off when it wouldn't go off, things like that?A You mean when the front door is open, --Q Right.A -- and they have the Wanderguard on, the alarm would ring.Q Would the alarm go off even if somebody didn't have an Wanderguard on on November 1, '94 I'm talking about?A I don't know.Q So in other words, you don't know if it went off every time anyone opened or closed the front door?A It didn't.Q It didn't?A No.Q That was a different one?A It was the same alarm. If they have they had the Wanderguard on, the alarm would ring. It would make a loud noise.Q What if they didn't have the Wanderguard on and they got out, and they walked out the front door? What if Tony walked out the front door without the Wanderguard bracelet on?MR. MACHALINSKI: I'm going to object. Are you asking if there is a separate alarm?BY MR. LEVIN:Q Let me back up. On November 1, 1994 if a resident without a Wanderguard bracelet on walked out the front door, would there be any alarm?A Not on the front door, no.Q So that was a different alarm than on the other doors?A Correct.Q Is that why they had someone posted at the front door, to watch the front door?A There is a mirror also. You can see who would be going and coming, in and out.Q On November 1, 1994 some nursinghome employee was supposed to be watching the front door to make sure that residents who weren't supposed to get out of the nursinghome didn't get out, correct?A That I don't know.Q You don't know if --A I don't know if someone posted there.Q But someone should have been posted there, right? The procedure was for nursinghome employees to watch the front door to make sure people who shouldn't get out didn't get out, correct?A Like you say posted, nobody is standing right there. But they are walking back and forth, and they are all aware of it.Q Was the first floor nursing station personnel supposed to watch the front door?A Yes, they are very aware of it.Q And it's their job to make sure that residents like Tony who weren't supposed to leave the nursinghome didn't leave the nursinghome, correct? That was the job of the first floor nursing station, correct?A One of the jobs.Q Yes. Let's assume Tony got out sometime between 6:00 and 8:00 at night. Would that have been visiting hours?A Visiting hours are until 8:00 p.m.Q Did someone specifically have the job of watching the front door during visiting hours to make sure the residents didn't leave with visitors by mistake or something like that?A Not to my knowledge.Q But during that period of time, during visiting hours, 6:00 to 8:00 at night, it was one of the jobs of the first floor nursing station to watch the front door to make sure residents didn't leave, correct?A Well, yes.Q In order for Tony to get out of the home undetected on November 1, 1994, that means that one or more people at the nursinghome were not doing their job correctly, yes?A Well, it meant somebody didn't see him leave.Q But a number of things had to go wrong for him to get out of the nursinghome undetected, correct?A Correct.Q So would it be fair to say -- Would it be fair for you to say that if Tony got out of the nursinghome undetected on November 1, 1994, one or more people weren't performing their jobs correctly, yes?MR. MACHALINSKI: I'm going to object. It calls for speculation.MR. LEVIN: I don't thing it is speculative.

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