(;GM[1]FF[4]CA[UTF-8]AP[CGoban:3]ST[2]
RU[AGA]SZ[19]KM[7.50]TM[3600]OT[5x30 byo-yomi]
GN[2013 Cotsen Bd1 Rnd3 BeomgeonCho (W) vs. Callvin Sun (B)]PW[Beomgeun Cho]PB[Calvin Sun]WR[7d]BR[7d]DT[2013-10-26]EV[2013 Cotsen]RO[3]PC[The KGS Go Server at http://www.gokgs.com/]US[Richard Dolen]
;B[pd]C[Shana [5d?\]: HI!
USGO4 [-\]: Hellow everyone! I am Myungwan Kim 9p
Zwiebel [2k\]: hi!
USGO4 [-\]: I am going to comment on the first board of Cotsen Open, game 3.
USGO4 [-\]: Black is Calvin Sun 7dan and White is Evan Cho 7 dan
indianayk [4d\]: Thanks for commenting
USGO4 [-\]: Both of them won 2 games previously so, this is very important game for them
USGO4 [-\]: And it should be interesting to see this game
USGO4 [-\]: If you have any questions during the commentary, you are welcome to intervine
]
;W[dd]
;B[qp]
;W[dq]
;B[oq]LB[qf:B][qj:A][ck:C]C[USGO4 [-\]: White A invasion was most common before, like 5 years ago
USGO4 [-\]: But there are some other responses
USGO4 [-\]: B is pretty common recently
USGO4 [-\]: C is like 'I am on my own. You got your territory I will have mine.'
]
;W[ck]C[USGO4 [-\]: He chooses C
nhanh [2d\]: does B lead to more complicated game normally?
USGO4 [-\]: By the Evan is his English name.
nhanh [2d\]: provoke pincer somehow
eluusive [2k\]: R10 is no longer common for white?
USGO4 [-\]: Beomgeun is a former Korean insei and probably the strongest Amateur in the US now
USGO4 [-\]: R10 is not that common these days
]
;B[fc]
;W[df]
;B[jc]
;W[qf]
(;B[nd]C[USGO4 [-\]: That's why B protected the corner first and see what he can do next
]
(;W[da])
(;W[rd]
(;B[qg]C[USGO4 [-\]: More desirable play, using Black's position
]
;W[pg]
;B[qh]
;W[rf]
(;B[pj]C[USGO4 [-\]: What do you guys think of this move?
braincrash [?\]: i like it
HKA [2d\]: great shape with the shimari
psai [7k\]: works nicely with the shimari
FlameBlade [-\]: would it be better at Q12?
USGO4 [-\]: what is shimari?
Shana [5d?\]: i dont think white should get q12 in sente
psai [7k\]: shimari is two-stone corner enclosure
braincrash [?\]: shimari = low right corner enclosure
UTDEspy [-\]: I like B taking Q12 first and then being able to jump perhaps farther from the stronger shape
FlameBlade [-\]: I was thinking if black gets Q12 in sente, then maybe black can take K4 or similar.
USGO4 [-\]: ok. but this move is too slow
USGO4 [-\]: pushing the center, at Q12, would be better.
USGO4 [-\]: it's too relaxed
]
;W[qc]
;B[gp]
(;W[do]C[gobugobu [8d\]: Excuse me, what would be B's response?
USGO4 [-\]: use your advantage
gobugobu [8d\]: after W k4 d5 e5 ?
indianayk [4d\]: k4?
USGO4 [-\]: bully your opponent when you are strong, run away when you're weak
USGO4 [-\]: a simple solution
USGO4 [-\]: isn't it?
gobugobu [8d\]: hehehe, I understand.
]
;B[jp]
;W[oo]C[USGO4 [-\]: this is important. W should reduce B's influence before it's too late
]
;B[pn]
;W[nq]
;B[np]
;W[op]
;B[mq]
;W[nr]
(;B[pq]C[gobugobu [8d\]: miai
USGO4 [-\]: right, miai
USGO4 [-\]: I know that word. I actually emphasize a lot on that
gobugobu [8d\]: next n4 and m5 were a educational tesuji.
USGO4 [-\]: miai is a special situation you can take advantage of playing one move a turn
Cattleprod [?\]: Im brand new, Ive only played a few weeks. So Im still learning. I wanted to ask. Since white was so focused on prepairing influence on the left side (which is not that common as you said, when he played at letter C), would have it been better if black somewhat mirrored whites choices, and set up his moyo on the opposite side, or would have it been better to set up a mirroring moyo at the top?
USGO4 [-\]: when you use miai well you can play way better
USGO4 [-\]: what move are you talking about?
]
;W[mp]
;B[no]C[Cattleprod [?\]: (Thank you)
]
(;W[lo]C[USGO4 [-\]: this is a good move to come outside
]
(;B[nn]C[Cattleprod [?\]: C9
Cattleprod [?\]: Way back
BlindTaub [1k\]: M5 i love it
eluusive [2k\]: What would a white response to something like Q13 be?
eluusive [2k\]: Q14
gobugobu [8d\]: Pls, Cattle, your question is too complex. And you don't have the level to understand the answer, either, which is 'Mu'
USGO4 [-\]: That's possible. Black could concentrate on his territory. But there's always komi B has to concern
USGO4 [-\]: in these days, B tend to play more aggresively in the beginning to use the advantage of playing first
USGO4 [-\]: and catch up komi
]
;W[lq]C[gobugobu [8d\]: That's why m5 was a great educational experience.
]
;B[kp]
;W[lm]
;B[jm]
(;W[nm]
(;B[on]
(;W[lp]C[skyywalker [2d\]: yes
cloudo [1d?\]: yeah
FlameBlade [-\]: very cool
gobugobu [8d\]: l2 looks important next
USGO4 [-\]: if W plays this move first B woudln't respond to p6
]
;B[kr]
;W[lr]
(;B[pc]C[USGO4 [-\]: Because W could reduce B's influence pretty easily W is a bit favorable
USGO4 [-\]: even it's not a big difference
USGO4 [-\]: By the way this move, Q17 is huge
]
(;W[db]
;B[qb]
;W[rb]
;B[qd]
;W[rc]
;B[pf]C[USGO4 [-\]: B wanted to increase the center
USGO4 [-\]: it's different. I mean B could play at Q14 and M9
USGO4 [-\]: W can't play on his game only
]
;W[hc]
(;B[ie]C[USGO4 [-\]: right
]
(;W[lk]TR[jc][nd][pd][ie][pf][qg][qh][pj]C[USGO4 [-\]: compare it with this variation
USGO4 [-\]: All the B's moves marked are not as efficient
]
(;B[fr]
(;W[fo]
;B[dr]
(;W[eq]
;B[er]
;W[cr]C[gobugobu [8d\]: d10 was better
]
(;B[ch]C[USGO4 [-\]: let's see how they have played so far
USGO4 [-\]: first
]
;W[eh]C[eluusive [2k\]: How to profit from M9?
gobugobu [8d\]: wrong question
USGO4 [-\]: B has better and thicker moyo
]
;B[bf]
;W[bd]
(;B[ei]
;W[di]
;B[dh]
;W[ci]
;B[eg]
;W[fh]
;B[dg]
;W[he]C[USGO4 [-\]: it seems like B fights when he shouldn't
USGO4 [-\]: he avoided fighting when he has advantage
USGO4 [-\]: this fighting should be good fir white
]
;B[fg]
;W[id]
;B[gg]
;W[fi]
;B[jd]
;W[hg]
;B[gh]
;W[fj]
;B[gd]
;W[hd]
;B[ed]
;W[ee]
;B[fe]
;W[ec]
;B[fb]
;W[fd]
;B[ge]
;W[je]
(;B[gc]
;W[hb]C[gobugobu [8d\]: Does W or does B have to be afraid to lose the ko?
gobugobu [8d\]: not B
]
;B[if]
;W[hf]
;B[jf]
;W[kf]C[gobugobu [8d\]: g17 looks like a terrible move
USGO4 [-\]: this move is very good
gobugobu [8d\]: yes
USGO4 [-\]: it's kind of asking move
]
(;B[jg]C[gobugobu [8d\]: f10 and l14 are both really good moves to learn for an amateur.
]
;W[ih]C[USGO4 [-\]: they are fighting severely
horowitz [1d\]: carubin my soul is with you
USGO4 [-\]: who's winning do you think?
lojj: white
USGO4 [-\]: are you a couple?
horowitz [1d\]: yes
horowitz [1d\]: maybe
USGO4 [-\]: good
gobugobu [8d\]: basically, the game is over now...
USGO4 [-\]: it's difficult for B
]
;B[hi]C[horowitz [1d\]: who is streaming this?
]
;W[ii]C[USGO4 [-\]: it's automatic
USGO4 [-\]: they are playing in another room and someone is recording their game
USGO4 [-\]: and it updates in this room automatically
guapo [1k\]: cause it's a clone
kmr [1d\]: its called "cloned game"
lojj: w aiming for l15
USGO4 [-\]: anyway, W is leading not only this fighting also the game
USGO4 [-\]: right, L15 might be a headache for B
]
;B[ij]
(;W[jj]
;B[hk]
;W[ke]
;B[kg]
;W[lg]
;B[lh]
;W[kc]TR[jc][jd]C[USGO4 [-\]: Evan make a lot of fancy moves
USGO4 [-\]: this move seems to be a finish blow
USGO4 [-\]: okay, you might be interesting why B has to give up two stones in upper side
cloudo [1d?\]: cant break through?
USGO4 [-\]: right?
]
(;B[mg]C[usa7dan: yes
USGO4 [-\]: that's why B has to give up
]
;W[kd]C[USGO4 [-\]: then game is almost over now
]
;B[lf]
;W[jk]
;B[ji]
;W[mc]
;B[fl]
(;W[hl]
;B[il]
;W[ik]
;B[hj]
;W[hm]
;B[kn]
;W[ln]
;B[fk]
(;W[io]
;B[hn]C[USGO4 [-\]: W doesn't have to be this much aggresive
]
;W[in]
;B[dk]
;W[dj]
;B[ek]
;W[ej]
;B[cl]
;W[bj]
;B[bk]
;W[bh]
;B[bg]C[USGO4 [-\]: W make a ko unneccesarily
]
;W[bl]C[reprisal [2d\]: i believe it ends here
USGO4 [-\]: but W still is in favor. B can't win this ko without a large sacrify
USGO4 [-\]: oh, that's too early to give up
Cattleprod [?\]: would it be possible for black to capture the white group around E11?
USGO4 [-\]: ok. B resigned
eluusive [2k\]: That's what the ko is for
Cattleprod [?\]: Right
USGO4 [-\]: OK. B was losing anyway
USGO4 [-\]: so, what is the problam or losing move for B?
gobugobu [8d\]: I blame the exchange of g17 for h18 a lot.
USGO4 [-\]: I would say he started a fighting in left side which was not favorable for B
USGO4 [-\]: and not playing at M9 earlier
gobugobu [8d\]: c12 invasion you mean
USGO4 [-\]: So B couldn't use his advantage
USGO4 [-\]: yes, C12 invasion
]
;B[ak]C[USGO4 [-\]: he should at least try
]
;W[cm]
;B[cj]
(;W[hq]C[USGO4 [-\]: there are many ko threats in lower side
])
(;W[ip]C[USGO4 [-\]: or just here
]
;B[ck]
;W[hq]))
(;W[dm])
(;W[ek]C[USGO4 [-\]: W should protect his weakness and that's enough
]
;B[gn]
;W[go]
;B[hn]
;W[ho]
;B[in]
(;W[iq])
(;W[ol]C[USGO4 [-\]: still enough for W
])))
(;W[go]
;B[hp]
;W[ik]
;B[hj]
;W[hl]C[USGO4 [-\]: W can push G5 first in order to make it simple
USGO4 [-\]: and safe
]))
(;B[kd]C[USGO4 [-\]: that's what I'd like to show
]
;W[ld]TR[jc][jd][kd]SQ[ie][if][jf][jg][kg]C[USGO4 [-\]: Basically B can't save both groups
]
;B[lc]
(;W[lf]LB[kb:A][kh:B]C[USGO4 [-\]: again, it's miai
USGO4 [-\]: there are quite miais in this game
USGO4 [-\]: A or B
cloudo [1d?\]: sad for b
USGO4 [-\]: you should be careful not to play here as W
]
;B[mg]C[USGO4 [-\]: B can make this exchange to make to situation different
]
;W[mf]
;B[ki]
;W[kb]
;B[md]TR[mg]SQ[mf]C[USGO4 [-\]: it's more complicating
USGO4 [-\]: do you see the difference?
usa7dan: W M14 failed
USGO4 [-\]: N13 exchage removed W's one liberty
])
(;W[le]C[USGO4 [-\]: actually this is better for W
USGO4 [-\]: but by this move B is hopeless
]
(;B[mg]
;W[kb]
;B[jb]
;W[lb]
;B[mc]
;W[ib]C[USGO4 [-\]: see
])
(;B[md]
;W[mg]C[USGO4 [-\]: it doesn't change anything for B
]
;B[kb]
;W[kh]))))
(;W[ki]LB[ke:A][hj:B]C[USGO4 [-\]: you see miai again
]
;B[ke]
;W[hj]
;B[gj]C[USGO4 [-\]: let's go back
]
;W[hk]
;B[gk]
;W[hl]C[USGO4 [-\]: it seems to be very difficult for B
cloudo [1d?\]: seems b is dead now
USGO4 [-\]: I mean B may live inside but lose a lot outside
USGO4 [-\]: even he can live inside
]))
(;B[ke]
;W[jg]
;B[kg]
;W[ii]C[gobugobu [8d\]: and over
USGO4 [-\]: right
]))
(;B[cc]C[USGO4 [-\]: he needs to bother W first
USGO4 [-\]: he is behind
]
;W[be]
;B[ed]C[USGO4 [-\]: he could make this move as sente
gobugobu [8d\]: why play the ko?
gobugobu [8d\]: why play ko now?
USGO4 [-\]: it helps B doesn't have to play G17
gobugobu [8d\]: B g17 is definitely sente, so no reason
USGO4 [-\]: he could live in upper side if neccasary
USGO4 [-\]: when fighting, it's different
USGO4 [-\]: to
]))
(;B[cc]C[lojj: d10 still?
gobugobu [8d\]: d17
USGO4 [-\]: I think he can make an asking move at this timing
]
;W[dc]
;B[bj]C[gobugobu [8d\]: c10 b9 b8 c8
USGO4 [-\]: now B can live inside instead of dragging it out
gobugobu [8d\]: that's bad for B
]
;W[cj]
;B[bk]
;W[bl]
;B[ci]
;W[ak]
;B[ai]
;W[bh]
;B[bg]
;W[dl]
;B[be]
;W[cd]
;B[ae]C[gobugobu [8d\]: is this good enough?
USGO4 [-\]: this is good for B
USGO4 [-\]: yes
USGO4 [-\]: B lived very well in the left side
gobugobu [8d\]: maybe we should do some counting/estimation of territory for practise.
eluusive [2k\]: B seems ahead here
gobugobu [8d\]: That's what I let students do a lot when I teach them.
USGO4 [-\]: oh you're a go teacher?
gobugobu [8d\]: Well, yes...
skyywalker [2d\]: b 46, w w 40+komi
gobugobu [8d\]: I have written a few books
tsukiatari [-\]: I'm confused
tsukiatari [-\]: they're playing 2 games at once?
USGO4 [-\]: that's it
USGO4 [-\]: Do you guys have any questions?
eluusive [2k\]: How od deal with a move like M9 from either player
creative1 [1d\]: who are you
USGO4 [-\]: I am Myungwan Kim 9p
gobugobu [8d\]: Rob van Zeijst is my name
gobugobu [8d\]: Mr. Kim is a top 9p
USGO4 [-\]: oh, nice to meet you
ligo [4k\]: tyvm
gobugobu [8d\]: nice meeting you
gobugobu [8d\]: Of course, I knew your name.
USGO4 [-\]: I am looking forward seeing you next time
gobugobu [8d\]: thank you for your great lesson.
FlameBlade [-\]: thank you for commenting on the game :)
lojj: instead of attaching at e11, is d10 possible for black?
eluusive [2k\]: If F2 an appropriate response from black to M9?
FlameBlade [-\]: much appreciated!
eluusive [2k\]: is8
USGO4 [-\]: Thank you for coming to my commentary
USGO4 [-\]: see you guys next time
xgw09 [1d\]: thank you Kim
markup [1d?\]: thank you
USGO4 [-\]: bye
gobugobu [8d\]: Bye
tsukiatari [-\]: ooh
tsukiatari [-\]: it's a commentary of one game -.-
Kamysto [8k\]: i came now
Cattleprod [?\]: Hhehe
curlin [?\]: who won?
]))
(;B[dj]C[USGO4 [-\]: B can either reduce by this way
USGO4 [-\]: this reducing move seems better for B
]
;W[dk]
;B[ej]
;W[bi]
;B[gd]C[USGO4 [-\]: it's still okay for B
])
(;B[gd]C[USGO4 [-\]: or just protect here then seek to invade at left
lojj: b m11 is ok?
])
(;B[li]C[USGO4 [-\]: now it's significally smaller
]
;W[gd]C[USGO4 [-\]: it's still a good move though
]))
(;W[fq]C[USGO4 [-\]: my first instint
]
(;B[eq]
;W[ep]
;B[er]
;W[cq]C[USGO4 [-\]: it left a big aji to B's shape
]
;B[gq]
;W[gd]C[USGO4 [-\]: this is way better for W
])
(;B[gq]
;W[er]
;B[es]
;W[eq]
;B[cr]
;W[gr]
;B[fs]
(;W[cq]
;B[hr]
;W[br]C[USGO4 [-\]: or
])
(;W[hr]C[USGO4 [-\]: W can be very aggresive
]
;B[bq]
;W[jr]C[USGO4 [-\]: it won't work for B
]))))
(;W[gd]C[lojj: f2 feels slow
USGO4 [-\]: this protection is big too
]))
(;B[gd]
;W[gr]C[USGO4 [-\]: that's one of reasons why B needed to play at M9
USGO4 [-\]: now, G2 became very big. it not only take some territory but it attack B a bit too
njs [1d\]: attacks the base
USGO4 [-\]: So, G2 is pretty big, not slow
]))
(;W[gd]
;B[lk]C[braincrash [?\]: pretty
gobugobu [8d\]: but, if you look back. if we reverse the order, W got both h17 and d18 - he should be happy, right?
USGO4 [-\]: The lower W group is not totally alive
USGO4 [-\]: so, B will make territory in the center more easily
gobugobu [8d\]: Yes
]))
(;B[lk]C[USGO4 [-\]: I think B should play this move first
USGO4 [-\]: this attack was important
gobugobu [8d\]: now is the time
]
;W[kq]
;B[jq]
;W[jr]
;B[ir]
;W[ks]
;B[ie]C[USGO4 [-\]: All B's moves are working together
]))
(;W[hc]C[USGO4 [-\]: If I am W, i'd like to invade
USGO4 [-\]: not giving B any breaks
]
;B[cc]
;W[dc]
;B[db]
;W[eb]
;B[cb]
;W[ec]
;B[be]
;W[bf]
;B[ce]
;W[cf]
;B[cd]
;W[gn]C[USGO4 [-\]: this is somewhat active play
]))
(;B[fq]C[USGO4 [-\]: if B plays somewhere else W can invade the uppder side
]
(;W[lc]
;B[ld]
;W[mc]
;B[kd]
;W[ob]C[USGO4 [-\]: that is very big
])
(;W[ob]C[USGO4 [-\]: W is not going to reduce like this. He will invade
]
;B[nb]
;W[oc]
;B[nc]C[USGO4 [-\]: this might be okay for B
])))
(;W[jr]C[USGO4 [-\]: this night move doesn't work now
]
;B[kq]
;W[kr]
;B[lp]C[USGO4 [-\]: do you see the difference?
Beykakua [3k\]: cool
]))
(;B[om]C[USGO4 [-\]: this is not a good idea for B
]
;W[on]
;B[nl]
;W[mm]
;B[po]
;W[jr]
;B[kq]
;W[kr]
;B[lp]
;W[mo]C[USGO4 [-\]: if N5 is sente, K2 works for White
]))
(;W[lp]
;B[kr]
;W[nm]C[Beykakua [3k\]: :)
]
;B[om]C[USGO4 [-\]: the timing is important
USGO4 [-\]: in your life too
]))
(;B[mo]C[USGO4 [-\]: this atari still doesn't work because of ladder
]
;W[lp]
;B[mr]
;W[nn]C[USGO4 [-\]: this ladder
reprisal [2d\]: if b had ladder it would be possible?
USGO4 [-\]: so, W used his position in left upper corner
USGO4 [-\]: you need to use your existing stones on the board to make an efficient move
USGO4 [-\]: if the ladder doesn't work for W, he can't play at M5
]))
(;W[lq]C[gobugobu [8d\]: Background: the komi has been changed from 4.5 to 5.5 to 6.5 in the last 40 years.
USGO4 [-\]: if he just catch B can block outside and keep his moyo
]
;B[mo]
;W[lp]
;B[lo]C[USGO4 [-\]: like this
]))
(;B[mr]C[gobugobu [8d\]: ladder is bad
USGO4 [-\]: what happens if B plays here?
USGO4 [-\]: right, the ladder does work for W
]
;W[or]C[gobugobu [8d\]: p2 q3 n4 o5 m4 is enough
]
;B[pq]
;W[mp]
;B[no]
;W[lp]LB[nn:A][lr:B]C[Beykakua [3k\]: cool
USGO4 [-\]: A or B
]))
(;W[jp]C[USGO4 [-\]: I'd like to invade or be aggresive a little
]
;B[do]
;W[eo]C[gobugobu [8d\]: ic
USGO4 [-\]: now the position is different. This fighting is in White's influence
gobugobu [8d\]: Yes, this looks good
USGO4 [-\]: this fighting should be favorable for white
]))
(;B[ph]C[USGO4 [-\]: this is stonger, more powerful
]
(;W[qc]
;B[og]C[gobugobu [8d\]: how does W respond?
]
;W[pf]
;B[jp]C[gobugobu [8d\]: and then k4 ?
USGO4 [-\]: yes
gobugobu [8d\]: Does this not look too good for B?
USGO4 [-\]: B has bigger moyo
])
(;W[of]C[USGO4 [-\]: if W respond, B can get the corner
gobugobu [8d\]: o13 o14 next?
USGO4 [-\]: taking the basement
]
;B[ng]
;W[nf]
;B[qc]C[gobugobu [8d\]: n13 k4 ?
USGO4 [-\]: you are pretty strong 'gubugobu'
gobugobu [8d\]: thank you, sensei
USGO4 [-\]: When you are strong, I mean on the board, you need to push your opponent
])))
(;B[qc]C[USGO4 [-\]: This response is too easy
]
;W[qi]C[USGO4 [-\]: W got basement and be very comfortable
])))
(;B[qh]C[USGO4 [-\]: You may have difficult time to decide whether you need to jump at the corner or approach here
]
;W[qc]
;B[qd]
;W[pc]
;B[od]
;W[rd]
;B[re]
;W[rc]
;B[qe]
;W[nc]LB[hc:C][ic:A][me:B]TR[jc]C[USGO4 [-\]: I don't like this variation for Black. Why?
USGO4 [-\]: I mean can you guys guess?
eluusive [2k\]: Pretty easy to reduce around P10?
USGO4 [-\]: B's triangle is in not a good position
diemorph [2k\]: elaborate please
USGO4 [-\]: It's like in the middle
Beykakua [3k\]: too far away? additional moves will make it over concentrated?
USGO4 [-\]: It would be better to be either A or B
USGO4 [-\]: White can invade at C
USGO4 [-\]: Does it sound reasonable?
Beykakua [3k\]: yeah
usa7dan: yes
USGO4 [-\]: Also Black didn't use his influence well
USGO4 [-\]: White got the corner too easily
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