Declining F1C participation - a different perspective=====================================================Author : This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.

I would propose that the decline in F1C participation is not caused by a problem with the product, but rather with the marketing and sales departments. Actually a close inspection of our enterprise shows that our F1C sales department is very, very weak. Some would say our F1C marketing department doesn't exist. Each F1C flier needs to recruit new participants. Go out and find a potential flier; let them try the event, listen to what they say, and only then sit back and see what the problem is.

>From where are new fliers going to come - probably not from the ranks of AMA gas. They too suffer from the same lack of a sales department and also see little new blood. Those that fly AMA gas exclusively have generally already tried F1C and FAI events are certainly not for everyone. I think you will find new blood in auto shops, on racetracks and on drag strips. Set a booth up at a NASCAR race and see the response you get. There are millions of "piston-head" want-a-be's out there for which FIC flying is a reasonable focus for their interest. John Lorbecki Sr. and Jr. shared wonderful insights with me at the Nats last summer. They convinced me that the love of power, speed and noise is ingrained in a person. We need to find those people and guide them.

If we had hundreds of people trying F1C but walking away, I would say that we should look at the rules. How can we say that the high cost of F1C flying is keeping people away? The problem is that no one is even taking a look. The fact is that we probably don't see more than one new person try the event in any one year in the whole US. Forget about making new rule proposals and instead make proposals to find new potential participants.

Art Ellis

A Lurker Speaks===============Author : This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.

I 'lurk' upon this List as, though I'm no longer interested in the presentInternational classes, the discussions on same are often illuminating andcan provoke a spin-off for other disciplines on occasion. I have watchedwith interest the (often conflicting) messages about the possible decliningsupport for some FAI activities, particularly F1C. One correspondent wrote:"There must be many other power fliers out there who would be tempted by amore accessible F1C "

I have no doubt that he is 100% correct. Though I cannot now count myselfamongst such, one has only to look at the growth in enthusiasm of Nostalgiain the US and the tremendous upsurge in power flying in the UK since 'SlowPower' was introduced (which I feel will be paralleled, in due course, by'Classic Power' in North America) to note that there is a large body ofmodellers who prefer simpler airplanes and from whose ranks many mightmigrate to F1C if that class was less esoteric..

"Historical evidence has shown that with a major rules change some number ofparticipants will probably abandon the class." This is inevitable when suchchanges further restrict and inhibit the class in question, even though suchinitial inhibitions will eventually result in design/engine/structuredevelopments which raise performance standards to the point that anothermajor rules change commences the entire cycle once again.

My own decline in FAI interest is undoubtedly not typical. I used to fly A2and FAI Power way back ... in general terms I disliked flying in Rounds, forone event then occupied virtually an entire day and prevented me from flyingin other classes. My participation in Power abruptly ceased when theFederation of Asinine Ideas raised the minimum weight of same by 50% from17.76 ozs.; my entire modelling philosophy has been 'add lightness' and todeliberately build 'lead-sleds' goes against the grain - even now I resentmatching the weights required by Nostalgia and P30 rules.

Another writer commented ... "what it would cost me if I decided to buy twoof the best new and geared F1C's and all the required support equipment. Ithink he said something like 8 grand."

$8000.00 required to be competitive ... 'nuff said. That's one reasonguaranteed not to attract new blood into the class, from the ranks of thosewho consider themselves as model builders rather than model flyers.Admittedly the purchaser of such models requires a high level of experienceto handle them properly (though one wonders how long it will be before sucharrive preprogrammed and fully trimmed) but is there any sense ofachievement in winning an event with one? Is the next step a 'contest' wherethe organisers rent out a fleet of identical airplanes to 'contestants'?One might almost achieve as much satisfaction by purchasing a trophy withhis name already engraved upon it....... (Comments from winners will beforthcoming, I'm sure!)

" The more that airframes are purchased complete, the more a toy-likequality that amounts to." Absolutely!" How much more does it cost to campaign an F1C than a HLG?" Well, there'ssomeone with a realistic sense of humour, for sure...."may well lead to a WC with just four of five well equipped contestants who,between flights, wander about asking why nobody else is able to come andplay with them." Perhaps unlikely in the immediate future .. butimpossible? No.

IMHO it is now too late to see any resurgence in the three major FAI classesand the same decline of participation in the 'mini' events is bound tofollow in due course. The FAI has changed the rules over the decades ingood faith (in most cases), trying to level the field whilst promotingworld-class competition between all aeromodellers everywhere; it hasachieved that competitive purpose admirably but in doing so has limited sameto a relatively small number (in global terms)of very accomplished builders and some well-heeled flyers. I do not thinkthat was the initial objective.

For FAI Power, it's too late to now call for rule changes reverting towooden airplanes with locked-up surfaces. Had the latter been banned at anearly stage structural and design development would have continued but therewould certainly have been a point at which stability limitations would haveterminated the horsepower race ... but there would undoubtedly be fargreater interest and participation in the class than at present.

I watch, and admire, the trajectory of a well trimmed F1C from a distance -and have every respect for those who choose to build and fly these, andother FAI classes, with such dedication (emphasis on 'build') but feel thatthey are treading a very narrow path towards an uncertain destination.

Returning to 'lurk' mode ...

Jim Moseley

Jack Bolton--free flight mentor===============================Author : This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.

Dear Roger, We received some really sad news yesterday. The modellingcommunitylost a beloved member, Jack Bolton. Jack played a valuable role in our entry to free flight. Jack lived inNavarre, Florida, were he had decided to retire after his prominent life inthe Air Force. In the Air Force, he oversaw all forgein exchanges andpurchases of US aircraft. He used his influencee from the military, andplayed an intricate role in the Pensacola Free Flight Team's access to thevarious naval fields in the area. Mr. Bolton CD'd everything from smallclub contests to the international SAM Champs. He welcomed and encouragednewcomers to the free flight community like us. We all agree that Jack wasa "modeler's modeler." Jack ,to me, was a good friend, and always offered any assistance hecould to convey the basic principles of getting an airplane trimmed. None ofus will ever forget those hot, Flordia mornings with Jack and the PensacolaFree Flight Team. He once served as a chase partner in two off-field chaseswith me, and my brother Michael. He trudged through streams and forestswith me to find a lost airplane in mid-day summer in Florida. As you canimagine, it was not fun. Despite his tiredness, he helped Michael inanother chase the next day on a rural Florida trek. Jack was a friend, and a mentor. He loved the smell of dope, an oldtimercovered in Silk, and a well-tuned ignition engine carrying a Playboy far faraway. We will all miss Jack. Our deepest condolences go to his wife andchildren.

Eddie, Michael, and Anthony Avallone

Toys, props, and balsa wood mentality=====================================Author : This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.

Toyness=======Author : This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.

In a message dated 12/3/01 10:39:45 PM Pacific Standard Time,> This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it. wrote:

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I would contend almost the opposite. The more that airframesarepurchased complete, the more a toy-like quality that amounts to.Complexitynotwithstanding.Mark Bennett,This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.

Mark, ol' buddy, you are dead wrong. Didn't you ever relish "Flightof the Pheonix"? Don't you remember when the model airplane designer,played by Hardy Kruger, was confronted by the fact that he was a toyairplane designer -- thus implying he was incapable ofre-engineering the crashed airplane to fly again? Hardy, with greatscorn replied to this effect" A toy airplane is something that youwind up, set down, and watch crawl across the floor." So there.

Thank you for setting me up. I loved that movie. Always like to giveit a plug.

I do understand what you are getting at, and it is important to me tobuild my own, but actually the definition of a toy is: An object forchildren to play with ...something of little importance; a trifle. Thequestion of what is a toy and what is not really depends on one'sparticular philosophy. When a fellow modeler tells me he is "....going out to fly his toy airplanes" I take that remark with a biggrain of salt.

Concerning going back to balsa construction: In the Denver area wehave four individuals who are primarily attracted to FAI Power. Muchof that interst is fueled because the extremne state of the artelevates the FAI ships to the top of the free flight food chain. Wehave others who are essentially cheerleaders and look on withinterest because they are fascinated by the breath- takingperformance. Stripping FAI Power of its elite performance statuswould most likely see these four fiddling their thumbs -- and thenswitching to Open Power hot rods. Who would move in to fill the gap?Our Nostalgia and SLOP flyers? I don't think so.

Going back to fixed props is a miserable idea. I can remember thedifficulty of trying to make enough of those fragile things to getthrough a season. And there was always subtle changes in performancefrom one to the other. I guess if one flys over the fabled andlegendary "tall grass" then a prop could last a season. It would bemore practical to drop a drag chute to lower performance ...heavenforbid!

And, please, Hermann. Drop the other shoe... "...don't count outstraight drives" ??? What is stirring in the back of your mind? Whatproperty must a magic wand posses that will circumvent theaerodynamic brick wall of low P/D and limited disc area? I keep goingaround in circles trying to figure a way around the dismal factevident in the miserable performance envelope evident on prop charts.Give us a hint! I'm desperate. I'll try anything!

Billious G.

The price of their toys=======================Author : This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.

Lets see if I have the Cost Thing in perspective.F1C reductor $2000 ... F1B stateof art $1700 ... F1A electronic $2000 ?????? AND We don't always act likegrown-ups but the models we fly Are NOT toys......and besides humor sucksacmeaero

[Isn't there a saying that the only thing different between menand boys is the price of their toys ...]

Rules & Stuff=============Author : This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.

I have been active in flying models , on and off, since 1947. The breaksin modeling were filled with Drag Racing( AA Fuel), Fishing and Golf.Fishing, racing and golf costs make the price of aeromodelling pale incomparison. George Schroeder mentioned the beginning cost of F1C at$8,000.00 which is the high side, $4,000.00 the minimum. That includestwo models, model box, starter that can fit in model box or smallpackage of it's own and support equipment and spare parts. I am assumingyou already have a chase vehicle and radio tracking device.In any sport I have ever been involved in, rules that limit, size,power, performance, and so on, only drive up the cost and technology upto overcome the rules. So, I know that all the complaining about the newstuff available in the FAI events is at best silly. I agreewholeheartedly with Bob Waterman on this subject. Terry Thorkildsen alsomakes a strong point, that consistency can overcomewhat seems to be the advantage of auto surfaces and new materials.Remember, Terry T. is the only guy to surpass the 100 minute barrierusing a totally locked down non-auto model.The things that are making AMA and NFFS events shrink while FAI and RCare flourishing are obvious. They are 1) Too damn many events. 2)lengthy competitions such as 20 to 30 maxes in one day to get a win. and3) the BOM(builder of model rule) come visit my shop...I've got at least100 FF flying models all built buy myself. I have nothing to proveabout my ability to build a model, nor do any of the folks with whom Icompete. Prior to retiring from the aerospace business, I would takesimple to make flying models to company picnics, where I attracted thekids like the Pied Piper. There folks would ask where can they get oneof those really neat models, to which I'd reply, you can't buy one butI'll get you the materials and show you how to make and fly it. I NEVERhad any of those parents follow up on the offer, much to the dismay ofthere sons & duaghters. Bob Stalick is right. AMA and Nostalgia shouldbe limited to three(1/2A, A/B and C/D) Classes. I believe that thisshould encompass both Cat I and II. I think slow open power alreadyexists, for the uneducated it is called Nostalgia Gas.The competition should be changed to have either one flight to theground or a series of flyoffs like FAI increasing the Max times whilenot allowing an increase to the power portion. When you enter an eventwhere some one already has five maxes you can't win as he's going to flyon top of you every time you try and catch up. If these three differentareas are not addressed AMA and Nostalgia as we know it will die withthose of us that still fly them. With a change in those areas we'll seethe average age of competitors become younger. I am an old geezer thatcan see the average age of FAI flyers is considerably lower than that ofthe AMA & NFFS events. Before some of you other old geezers gripe aboutthe new stuff you ought to show up at an FAI event and see it firsthand."Nuff SaidRoger Coleman

Changing your e-mail address============================

If you are a current subscriber and wish to change your e-mailaddress, just send an e-mail to This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it. requesting the changewith your old and new address and it will be done.

Here it is the end of 2001. My how the year flies when you are having fun.For me its bid time again for the upcoming year. Any drafts or ideas ondates for contests next year. I'd hate for work to get in the way ofcompetition.

Thermals to all and to all a good flight, Larry Norvall

F1C Character==============Author : This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.

Roger,

I have come to, what is for me, a startling realization. It is not thecharacter of F1C rules that shape the rates of innovation and participationbut the events position in the roster of free flight gas events. It is THEopen class gas event contested in world competition. It is the Holy Grailof gas events. No matter what we do to restrict these models they will berare birds flown by rare persons.