Sequester Has Been Added to the U.S. Debt Clock : Our Deficit is Falling !

one problem i have with this post is "our deficit" , i have never willingly , knowingly , or with full understanding borrowed , approved , any
monies or debt that contributed to the deficit. THEIR deficit is THEIR problem , and to the people who put up the "your share" billboards , piss
off.

The DJ index was also at a record high in 2007 right before the bubble burst, sending us into the worst recession since the depression.

No bubble this time. Only Full Doc loans are being approved this time!

This real estate boom is for real this time.

Corporate profits are for real. The stock market is where it should be.

The Private Sector is saving us. The Federal Government has been placed in -- neutral --.

Really? My 20 year old son was just approved for a mortgage on his first home. His full time employment history is a whopping 1.5 years!! Full Doc, I
don't think so.
Corporations for the greater part are bleeding red because of all the restrictions and govt regs and added costs (Obamacare anyone?)

The stock market is nowhere near where it is supposed to be. In fact it is the furthest away from where it should be in the history of the market.

Lastly, the Federal govt is actually running at top gear presently and is nowhere near neutral.

The DJ index was also at a record high in 2007 right before the bubble burst, sending us into the worst recession since the depression.

No bubble this time. Only Full Doc loans are being approved this time!

This real estate boom is for real this time.

Corporate profits are for real. The stock market is where it should be.

The Private Sector is saving us. The Federal Government has been placed in -- neutral --.

Really? My 20 year old son was just approved for a mortgage on his first home. His full time employment history is a whopping 1.5 years!! Full Doc, I
don't think so.
Corporations for the greater part are bleeding red because of all the restrictions and govt regs and added costs (Obamacare anyone?)

The stock market is nowhere near where it is supposed to be. In fact it is the furthest away from where it should be in the history of the market.

Lastly, the Federal govt is actually running at top gear presently and is nowhere near neutral.

The stock market is at a record high! I'll take it.

Full Doc = He actually has a job!

The Sequester has put Federal Spending in -- neutral --.

Truth: For 2013 the Federal Government will spend only $15 Billion more than in 2012.

I see where you are coming from and I fully understand where your optimism springs from as well. What I have a major disagreement here is the gap
between paper projection and real world behavior or result.

First, by the same token people have been saying for months now (and rightly so) that the Sequester is very small in dollars for the short term, it's
impact is only that which the White House makes it. I mean, the money involved here does not make a meaningful difference unless very targeted to
cause pain. That is the impression the nation has been given, for what has been done, and by both sides. If that isn't the case after all and these
ARE NOT targeted as we've all been led to believe, then the numbers are actually rather petty ..short term anyway.
_

Revenue is a WHOLE different matter and it's obscene to hear it put this way. I don't fault you. Not one bit. You didn't go to school and spend a
lifetime mastering these subjects to know better. The people in Government DID. You don't necessarily know the history of economic experiments and
failures of the past to know what works, what doesn't and why. THEY have and DO know these things. They do the same thing that's led to failure in the
past, anyway....and expect different results.

Revenue projections are coming from higher taxes across the board and on everyone. From the little bonus in Withholding people had gotten used to..but
saw taken away on Jan 1, to the payroll taxes to employers to the income and corp taxes rates.....it's hurting people to try and make money.
_

The problem is...the people they are trying to hurt most (The Rich) are the LEAST likely to give a damn either way. If it gets too bad, they can leave
the U.S. entirely, as some have, and tell Obama where to stick his crap. MANY....(and I work for one) have "Gone Galt" and shut down some or all of
their business interests outright over the past 2-3 months. Those are businesses and jobs we may never see back.

This is what Rich people do when you threaten taxes too high on what they make. They don't NEED to make anything more in life, literally in many cases
...so they flat out DO stop making any more income and live comfy off what they already have.

^^^ This makes revenue projections very incomplete by the lack of accounting for that one very crucial factor of human behavior and reaction. Ask
France when they passed taxes far beyond ours. The going got tough and the rich just got going. In droves...to tell France to enjoy their tax rates on
others.
_

(By the way, the United States Corporate Tax rate was #2 in the world, by a LONG SHOT, the last time I looked..and #1 went to a far smaller nation
that is welcome to commit fiscal suicide for all I care. When we wonder where the business went? This is why they left..at least in part. Rich and
Corporations will stick around for fair taxes...they'll simply leave us all alone with extreme taxes. Obama is becoming extreme, fast.)

I'm not sure where precisely you are drawing your numbers from and I'm about out of time before classes to get more in depth here. However, I used
this site extensively for reference (after determining the numbers matched or nearly matched anything of importance crossing to the GAO published
budget material) while making my Super Budget Thread months back, and the numbers
you're citing are not just different...but trillions off what is actually going out right now?

They have deeper levels where you can 'drill down' into the budget items, right down to line items to see what is what and where it's at. It's a
pretty scary thing, all things considered. What is at least as scary are the number games being played by those in power on both sides to confuse and
muddy the whole issue. This is the future of our nation, and they treat it like a political gotcha game. It's sickening.

Here is another look and this comes from the Excel version of the 2013 proposed White House Budget for the fiscal year. We don't HAVE budgets right
now, but the production of these budget packages ARE accurate, generally speaking, for what HAS been spent and projections are good enough to get a
feel for planning to what WILL be spent.

The numbers your working from on 2013 are, as you can see, surpassed fairly quickly by just the top 20-30 line item expenses of the Federal budget.

Well, in the interests of trying to be helpful more than debating at this point, I appreciate your use of official sources. So many don't do that and
then wonder why they aren't taken seriously by others. Fox or CNN is hardly an official source, of course.

The problem I see with the CBO, and I'm someone who DOES regularly reference and cite them myself, is that they are an Analysis and Number crunching
agency. The GAO is one that publishes the actual, finished products of numbers and status for things like the Budget or Federal Law. The Congressional
Budget Office, on the other hand, takes any and all requests for number crunching by Congress or related parties, without using anything outside of
what has handed them, produce the results asked for. It's produced within the very narrow and specific confines of the data supplied to them.

During the Obamacare debates, the CBO took, crunched and reproduced many sets of data for the debates and policy making. *ALL* ended up wrong and
worthless in the end. Not because they weren't accurate to what they'd been asked to report, but because the report wasn't meant to convey a finished
product or end state.

The CBO just analyzes possible outcomes and reports what it would or will look like.

As far as 'estimating GDP'. Well, yes, my sources do....and some of that is sourced, originally FROM the CBO itself. They are a primary source in the
U.S. for predictive and policy making data. The U.S. Budget as proposed by Obama (See here) includes
thje numbers assumptions and predictions used in building all the other numbers within an appendix to the overall budget. Some of those numbers HAVE
already changed...but generally for the worse, not better from where they were when written many months ago.

I think the bottom line here is what we have the most trouble with in general. Without a REAL budget that neither party seems at all interested in
passing (The House would have to pass one before fighting to have it, of course) we have a variety of sources for this. All different and some wildly
different for dolar numbers and projected effect.

While that is happening and we can't get 100% certain numbers as we'd all like to, I look at 17 trillion in standing debt (Highest in the world by
far) and I look at the Treasury and Fed doing things, right up into last week, to make it worse.....and don't see any sign to feel good. In my Budget
thread, on page 3. Another member had taken the time to run the numbers and see just what it would require to pay off the debt. I'll let his words
speak for themselves.

It doesn't simply take a balanced budget....we need SURPLUS in the half Trillion dollar range, every year, without fail. That will still erquire most
of the 21st century to pay off. What are the odds we return to actual annual surplus range, let alone a half billion a year?

we won`t know if we saved any money this year until the year is over. Anything can happen between now and the end of the year. Right now today we
might be projecting that we will only spend 16 billion more this year than last year but we have 9 1/2 months left in the year and like I said
anything can happen.

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