"The concern I have with Wilson is a pretty big one. In four starts so far he has really struggled to sit in the pocket and make plays. On the penultimate drive he had pretty good protection on third down, but still panicked too quickly and left the pocket. He was sacked scrambling around trying to find space to throw.

Time and time again he’s leaving the pocket too quickly. If Wilson is ever going to make it as a long term starter, he has to be able to sit in the pocket and make reads. Right now he simply isn’t doing that. I’m not sure whether replacing him is the answer because you might end up switching one issue for another. For every play Wilson gets panicky and leaves the pocket, there’s a play where his superior mobility is a factor. It’s harsh to judge a rookie too early but I think we’re moving into the territory now where we don’t assume Wilson is the answer. For me, the Seahawks have made their bed and need to keep rolling with the guy and hope he improves. But for the first time this season the thought of going back to scouting quarterbacks crossed my mind."

Jazzhawk wrote:Sorry, not buying the drivel you are selling. A horrible pick six and failing to get in the end zone on 3 Red Zone drives says you are incorrect. That is NOT to say bring Flynn in. But to jut stick your head in the sand and say Wilson was great....phhht. no thanks.

Sorry - I'm too busy enjoying this great win and an improved performance from our rookie QB to be that concerned with the moaniest, whiniest contributor on the forum saying my post is drivel. As Russell Wilson says - "Go Hawks".

Exactly. He's a rookie who knows that he is making mistakes. He's working his a$$ off to get better every week, and because of his work ethic he's shown improvement over the course of this young season thus far. Things are only going to get better with this kid. And remember, the W is all that matters.

JSeahawks wrote:100% agree. I would love to put all the QB debate behind us. Unfortunatly I dont think its going to happen.

You guys, as mods, can make it happen. Just sayin'. Maybe some smashmouth "officiating" in QB threads, lol; or perhaps have one giant gazillion-page-long thread where QB talk is allowed during the week and no new threads about it, making it easier to avoid? IDK.

Who was the best quarterback on the field today? Mr. Wilson is one hell of a leader and a gift to us in the third round. Listen to the specific praise his teammates heap on him for his hard work, his quest for greatness, and mental toughness. Cam has exceptional physical characteristics, no doubt, but Mr. Wilson has a lot of Larry Bird, Magic, and MJ in his personality. This quarterback has the potential to lift the potential of his teammates simply by the example he himself sets.

Thanks Seahawks for a fantastic season. Get some rest because next year you play 2 more.

Oh and hey, remember not that long ago when Wilson had an overthrow problem? He hasn't had a blatantly overthrown pass for a while now. I'm definitely seeing development- particularly in regards to pocket presence and poise.

Last edited by kearly on Sun Oct 07, 2012 6:53 pm, edited 3 times in total.

Oh and hey, remember not that long ago when Wilson had an overthrow problem? He hasn't had a blatantly overthrown pass for a while now. I'm definitely seeing development- particularly in regards to pocket presence and poise.

Agreed on all accounts. I would like to see him quit that habit of always bailing right, though. He's gotten better with it, but it's still a bit of an issue.

Oh and hey, remember not that long ago when Wilson had an overthrow problem? He hasn't had a blatantly overthrown pass for a while now. I'm definitely seeing development- particularly in regards to pocket presence and poise.

Week 4: He was really bad. That's the only conclusion I could come up with.

He limited mistakes in week 2 and took what was available, but that was his only real solid effort.

I like Wilson and I think he'll turn into something solid, but I feel like we're having to overcome his play rather than feed off it. That's not to say he won't turn a corner later in the season and we can hang our hat on his play, but if our defense was even average the Draft Forum would be going crazy right now.

Saw improvement today, penalties have hurt Wilson and the offense, our third down play calling also hurts Wilson. I did see him looking at more of the field today, hitting some different guys and letting them make plays. His decision making still has to speed up and he needs to be decisive when it does. Thats the pro game speed and at some point giving his work ethic and study it should slow down. Seemed they let him play more today, yeah a couple picks but those mistakes can be learned from. It happens to every QB.

Now if we continue to let him play a bit more every week and can get him to see more and react faster I think things are moving as well as we could expect.

To Be P/C or Not P/C That is the Question..........Seahawks kick Ass !!!! Check your PM's, Thank you for everything Radish RIP My Friend. Member of the 38 club.

theENGLISHseahawk wrote:The guy is 3-2 as a rookie starter, former third round pick. Is he perfect? Absolutely not. Is he doing better than most other rookie QB's, especially considering he's not the storied #1 overall or top-5 pick who is expected to be great? Absolutely yes.

What rookies would those be? Out of curiosity.

ImTheScientist wrote:This guy is the closest thing to beast mode we will ever see. You got a glimpse of that yesterday. He was instantly my favorite player when they signed him. Give the dude a chance and don't overreact or overthink preseason. Go Hawks. Lacy will rush for 1,100 and 10TDs. Bend the knee.

Not sure what everyone was expecting but Russell Wilson's progression has been steady and for the most part pretty normal. Maybe because he showed so much promise during the preseason people thought it would carry over to the regular season. I have been sitting on the sidelines in disbelief sometimes how people are starting to call for Flynn already. We are such a knee jerk society we want instant gratification for everything. So much so that our sports franchises and corporations cave in to this most selfish of all human emotions. This leads to crappy products that are force fed down our throats which have not gone through their natural maturation process. Then we sit around and belly ache about how crappy everything is. Would you rather flip flop between Wilson and Flynn until we blow this thing up again in three years or should we let Wilson get his battle scars and lead us to a championship? You can't have both. Flynn should be a solid backup now. End of story and lets move forward.

That said, however, he's unlikely to do that until he posts 300 yards against a Top 5 defense, and I hope I'm not breaking anyone's hearts when I say that that won't be happening this year. Until then, we've got Matt Flynn buzzing around offering a tempting bypass for our rookie QB struggles, the type of bypass that's very familiar to Seahawks fans and that may or may not be a mirage.

That said, however, he's unlikely to do that until he posts 300 yards against a Top 5 defense, and I hope I'm not breaking anyone's hearts when I say that that won't be happening this year. Until then, we've got Matt Flynn buzzing around offering a tempting bypass for our rookie QB struggles, the type of bypass that's very familiar to Seahawks fans and that may or may not be a mirage.

Sounds like the debate will continue.

I agree with some of this. I'm not so sure that 300yds against a top 5 defense is really all that important though. Show me some points somewhere in that effort and I'd say you have something. From today's game, he was about 30yds short of that figure (if not for the call back for holding on the 50+yd pass) and we weren't behind by much. If we ever end-up playing from a larger points deficit, I could see him passing for 300+, but that is meaningless if it stops short of or in the red zone.

Oh, and as for the bypass, let me get some of that action: "Dilfer, Dilfer, Dilfer!!"

rastahawk wrote:Not sure what everyone was expecting but Russell Wilson's progression has been steady and for the most part pretty normal. Maybe because he showed so much promise during the preseason people thought it would carry over to the regular season. I have been sitting on the sidelines in disbelief sometimes how people are starting to call for Flynn already. We are such a knee jerk society we want instant gratification for everything. So much so that our sports franchises and corporations cave in to this most selfish of all human emotions. This leads to crappy products that are force fed down our throats which have not gone through their natural maturation process. Then we sit around and belly ache about how crappy everything is. Would you rather flip flop between Wilson and Flynn until we blow this thing up again in three years or should we let Wilson get his battle scars and lead us to a championship? You can't have both. Flynn should be a solid backup now. End of story and lets move forward.

'Ding ding,' WINNER!

But wait minute, I can order and get exactly what I want from Amazon in a day or so. Not like it took awhile to develop the product; it just gets posted to the website and BAM, it's ready to go! ...and Madden players never take that long to develop..I call BS on this!

Seahawk Sailor wrote:The noise coming from the 12th man this season sounds EXACTLY like the noise coming from Baltimore fans in 2008. EXACTLY. And quarterback and team performance has so far matched it almost identically.

Stop forcing that silly analogy.

Nobody cares.

"Some people here have been groomed to accept mediocrity and lame ducks, I'm on board with the vibrato!" -SouthSoundHawk "BFS is kicking ass in here." -kearly (8/9/2013)

I agree, dunce. His long ball to Tate was his best throw of the year. Nice to see him target Miller, also. HOWEVER.... Carolina isn't a very good defense-and he gave them 7 points. So much improvement needed. Good game, though, overall. There were positive signs.

"Some people here have been groomed to accept mediocrity and lame ducks, I'm on board with the vibrato!" -SouthSoundHawk "BFS is kicking ass in here." -kearly (8/9/2013)

bestfightstory wrote:I agree, dunce. His long ball to Tate was his best throw of the year. Nice to see him target Miller, also. HOWEVER.... Carolina isn't a very good defense-and he gave them 7 points. So much improvement needed. Good game, though, overall. There were positive signs.

Good game, improvement needed. Great throw to Tate, bad throw on the INT. He found Sidney & Zach multiple times, even Doug and Braylon for a change. He's on the right path. I'm BEHIND him.

OK, I really don't get this abject refusal to acknowledge that our rookie QB is improving. Isn't it obvious that he is? Jeez, some of you sound like the ninnies who were complaining about the replacement refs, without ever acknowledging that the regular refs regularly screw up too. Many of us had unrealistic expectations of him coming into the regular seasons, and then we saw his imperfections. So OK, he isn't perfect. But it seems that many here aren't going to be happy with him until he is.

I don't get it.

49ers webzone: Win or lose, i hope you injure Sherman. Like a serious career ending injury. I don't want him to get paid.49ers webzone: noise should not be the overwhelming reason a team is favored. they need to spray noise-damping foam onto the ceiling of that place.

BlueTalon wrote:OK, I really don't get this abject refusal to acknowledge that our rookie QB is improving. Isn't it obvious that he is? Jeez, some of you sound like the ninnies who were complaining about the replacement refs, without ever acknowledging that the regular refs regularly screw up too. Many of us had unrealistic expectations of him coming into the regular seasons, and then we saw his imperfections. So OK, he isn't perfect. But it seems that many here aren't going to be happy with him until he is.

I don't get it.

Who is displaying abject refusal to acknowledge such things? Get them up against The WaLL!

"Some people here have been groomed to accept mediocrity and lame ducks, I'm on board with the vibrato!" -SouthSoundHawk "BFS is kicking ass in here." -kearly (8/9/2013)

Not refusal, I think it's great when ANY player improves. Cheers, praise, and all that rah-rah stuff! I was in the gameday forum just today saying he's playing better (then again, any worse and we would be seeing another loss there).

No, I just don't think RW should be on the field yet, not until he's improved. The PHX and STL games have already passed. Those were wins, so the only issue is one with PC if you're asking. I have nothing against RW, understand? He may very well be a good QB in the NFL one day, he's just not that right now. Time and experience will tell that tale.

* I really think the only constant and honest praise still goes to our defense and RB's/Oline. How about some of that? They've been sealing our wins and tempering our losses.

Last edited by hawkfan1975 on Mon Oct 08, 2012 2:48 am, edited 3 times in total.

I've been behind RW since day one, however I didn't/ don't have high expectations for him this season as I think he will need a full year to rally get going, great if we do something this season but I see next season as our year.

One can go through and highlights Russell’s progress toward being a poor,average, good, or elite quarterback and (depending which side of the fence you want to stand on) find plenty of evidence to bolster a claim for any of the above. In reality though, we’re comparing what he does to what we think Matt may do. That’s probably not fair, but being fair isn’t a requirement to post on this or any other board.

The search for a franchise QB is the Holy Grail quest of every team in the NFL. We all want that elusive “guy” that can carry a team when things look the darkest, who can snatch victory from the jaws of defeat, who’s very presents can will a team to win, or insert any other cliché you want. The point is the search goes on every day, on every team, for as long as they plan on being competitive in the NFL.

Some teams get “lucky” in the draft, some mortgage their futures, some trade for backups buried deep in the depth charts of other teams who already have “the one”, some are so bad one falls into their laps, and some are destined search for decades. The strange thing is though; you never know you’ve found your pot of gold before it happens.

Who knew when Miami took the sixth and last QB in the first round of the famous ’83 draft they had a future HoFer, only the most optimistic fan could have believed that. Or San Diego would trade away TWO future MVPs and still end up with their QBOTF? Or when NE traded away their “number one pick in the draft franchise QB”, to start a little known sixth rounder; they would be at the beginning of a dynasty? Or when Green Bay gave up a second round pick for Steve Miller’s backup they would have one of the best QBs to ever play the game?

The point, of my rambling post, is at this stage we don’t know what we have. Wilson could be Joe Montana or Steve Dils, Tom Brady or Todd Husak and Flynn could be Brett Favre or Jeff Lewis, Drew Brees or Scott Mitchell. What we do know is Pete and John haven’t mortgaged the franchise in their search for our own Holy Grail, they haven’t wasted precious first round capital year after year, and they haven’t searched in vain for decades….YET.

So can I get behind Russell Wilson, absolutely, he may end up being a Joe Montana or maybe just a Dave Krieg in the making and I (the fans and most likely this franchise) could live with that and be happy.

And if Matt Flynn is a Kurt Warner waiting in the wings, well I can live with that as well. Can you?

"Est autem fides credere quod nondum vides; cuius fidei merces est videre quod credis." Faith is to believe what you do not see; the reward of this faith is to see what you believe.(St. Augustine of Hippo)

FidelisHawk wrote:One can go through and highlights Russell’s progress toward being a poor,average, good, or elite quarterback and (depending which side of the fence you want to stand on) find plenty of evidence to bolster a claim for any of the above. In reality though, we’re comparing what he does to what we think Matt may do. That’s probably not fair, but being fair isn’t a requirement to post on this or any other board.

The search for a franchise QB is the Holy Grail quest of every team in the NFL. We all want that elusive “guy” that can carry a team when things look the darkest, who can snatch victory from the jaws of defeat, who’s very presents can will a team to win, or insert any other cliché you want. The point is the search goes on every day, on every team, for as long as they plan on being competitive in the NFL.

Some teams get “lucky” in the draft, some mortgage their futures, some trade for backups buried deep in the depth charts of other teams who already have “the one”, some are so bad one falls into their laps, and some are destined search for decades. The strange thing is though; you never know you’ve found your pot of gold before it happens.

Who knew when Miami took the sixth and last QB in the first round of the famous ’83 draft they had a future HoFer, only the most optimistic fan could have believed that. Or San Diego would trade away TWO future MVPs and still end up with their QBOTF? Or when NE traded away their “number one pick in the draft franchise QB”, to start a little known sixth rounder; they would be at the beginning of a dynasty? Or when Green Bay gave up a second round pick for Steve Miller’s backup they would have one of the best QBs to ever play the game?

The point, of my rambling post, is at this stage we don’t know what we have. Wilson could be Joe Montana or Steve Dils, Tom Brady or Todd Husak and Flynn could be Brett Favre or Jeff Lewis, Drew Brees or Scott Mitchell. What we do know is Pete and John haven’t mortgaged the franchise in their search for our own Holy Grail, they haven’t wasted precious first round capital year after year, and they haven’t searched in vain for decades….YET.

So can I get behind Russell Wilson, absolutely, he may end up being a Joe Montana or maybe just a Dave Krieg in the making and I (the fans and most likely this franchise) could live with that and be happy.

And if Matt Flynn is a Kurt Warner waiting in the wings, well I can live with that as well. Can you?

In fairness Peaches you're an Oklahoma State fan. It's not the most objective debate is it?

I saw some of the Giants game on red zone and don't think it warrants a change of tact. He'd be doing better in a superior team than Cleveland, but he was drafted to be good quickly - quicker than most rookies given he's approaching 29. And he isn't. That's always been my point.

I'll get 100% behind Wilson when I see solid evidence he is a better QB then Flynn (this team, this O, this year). Our goal was to improve at the QB position from TJack. Please go look at the numbers, we still haven't done that after 5 games, so our objectives in making changes have not been met.

Nice to get the W and to see some improvement, but that is not enough given the weakness of the opponents D.

The haters said he wasn't going downfield. This time he completed several pretty downfield passes, perfectly placed.The haters said he couldn't see over the line. This time he appeared to have no sight line problems.The haters said he couldn't score in the red zone. This time he completed a 13 yd TD pass in the zone.The haters said he couldn't convert on 3rd down. This time he was 7 for 14 on third down.

I thought it looked just fine. Sit Breno for the first Qtr against the Pats.

Daddy Love wrote:The haters said he wasn't going downfield. This time he completed several pretty downfield passes, perfectly placed.The haters said he couldn't see over the line. This time he appeared to have no sight line problems.The haters said he couldn't score in the red zone. This time he completed a 13 yd TD pass in the zone.The haters said he couldn't convert on 3rd down. This time he was 7 for 14 on third down.

I thought it looked just fine. Sit Breno for the first Qtr against the Pats.

THIS.

If I came on this site without watching yesterdays game, I swear I would have thought we lost and Wilson threw 3 picks. The pick six was on him, no doubt, but the amount of criticism being put on him right now is bordering on ridiculous. Did ANYONE see the 60 yard bomb he threw right into the hands of Tate? Or his 76% completion percentage? Or his near perfect day throwing on 3rd down?

Once our offense stops shooting themselves in the foot, this team will be SPECIAL. Y'all are a bunch of negative nancies.

truehawksfan wrote:I guess we all have our opinions, and he can look at thin gs differently. Is RW makng progress? I think so and I hope he continues to improve because he missed a wide open Baldwin in the endzone that cost the team a TD. And he missed a wide open Tate crossing the middle. Sheesh, the announcers said this and the replays showe, but oh well, if you want to ignore that or dismiss it....hey, it's your choice.

I, tho, will not.

Sorry.

Yes and Newton didnt see wide open receivers, and Rogers didnt see a wide open receiver and Brees did not see a wide open receiver and Rivers didnt see wide open recievers in the end zone. Man you make it sould like only RW doesnt see someone. Nobody is ignoring it. But he doesnt do it any more than any other QB in the league.

Sorry but I am just not buying that performance as impressive considering how bad Carolina's D is. Wilson needs to start generating touchdowns instead of field goals in the red zone consistently and he will have my support, but until then, we will keep barely winning games that we should win in blowouts and losing to many of the good teams we play. He simply does not impress me with his play, and I am very confident that the team would look better if Flynn was playing.

We don't know what we have in Flynn seems to be the only defense for not starting him. Well we DO know this: After 5 games, Wilson is averaging 60 yards per game less passing than TJack. Now we know TJack couldn't have gotten any better. I hated getting him, but I respect what he did here. Still, Wilson is a rookie and we've taken a step BACK with Wilson under center. The upside is that - and while there is no guarantee - I think we ALL agree that Wilson will one day be much better than TJack ever could be.

So we took a step backwards this season, when we have the No 1 defense and a top 10 rushing attack, in order to groom Wilson to be the QBOTF. That decision cost us being 5-0 because with TJack's extra 60 yards passing per game after 5 games last year, we'd have beaten both AZ and the Rams. The GB game wouldn't have been as close either. Nor would the Carolina game.

What else do we KNOW? That Flynn was much better than TJack. That it is quite possible Wilson won the starting job due to Matt Flynn's tendinitis. That TJack was always gone from this team unless either Wilson or Flynn totally flopped, because both QB's have more upside than TJack ever will.

So, since Flynn was much better than Tjack and TJack would have done better than Wilson these first five games due to Wilson being a rookie, it is pretty much nondebatable that we DO KNOW that Flynn would have been better than Wilson these first five games had he started. And if TJacks 60 yards of extra passing a game would have made us 5-0, then it's safe to say had we started Flynn right now we'd be 5-0.

Not that what we think will possibly matter. It's all moot now. It's Wilson's job to lose.

Richard Sherman doesn't just wanna get in your head, he wants to build a vacation home there.

SalishHawkFan wrote:We don't know what we have in Flynn seems to be the only defense for not starting him. Well we DO know this: After 5 games, Wilson is averaging 60 yards per game less passing than TJack. Now we know TJack couldn't have gotten any better. I hated getting him, but I respect what he did here. Still, Wilson is a rookie and we've taken a step BACK with Wilson under center. The upside is that - and while there is no guarantee - I think we ALL agree that Wilson will one day be much better than TJack ever could be.

So we took a step backwards this season, when we have the No 1 defense and a top 10 rushing attack, in order to groom Wilson to be the QBOTF. That decision cost us being 5-0 because with TJack's extra 60 yards passing per game after 5 games last year, we'd have beaten both AZ and the Rams. The GB game wouldn't have been as close either. Nor would the Carolina game.

What else do we KNOW? That Flynn was much better than TJack. That it is quite possible Wilson won the starting job due to Matt Flynn's tendinitis. That TJack was always gone from this team unless either Wilson or Flynn totally flopped, because both QB's have more upside than TJack ever will.

So, since Flynn was much better than Tjack and TJack would have done better than Wilson these first five games due to Wilson being a rookie, it is pretty much nondebatable that we DO KNOW that Flynn would have been better than Wilson these first five games had he started. And if TJacks 60 yards of extra passing a game would have made us 5-0, then it's safe to say had we started Flynn right now we'd be 5-0.

Not that what we think will possibly matter. It's all moot now. It's Wilson's job to lose.

That "transitive property" crap you're peddling is nothing but speculation.

Wilson is passing for fewer yards than Jackson did through 5 games last season, yeah. It helps that Jackson was in charge of a no-huddle offense that went pass happy in Weeks 4 and 5 last season. If you compare the first three games of each season to each other, it's a hell of a lot closer. Plus, Wilson is attempting 10 fewer passes per game than Jackson did at the start of last season. Put Wilson in a no-huddle and give him more attempts per game, and sure, you might see his numbers improve.

But that doesn't seem to be the kind of offensive identity that the team wants to adopt, and last year's performances bear that out. The team didn't start stringing together wins until it abandoned the pass-happy, big yardage offense and switched to a run-heavy offense that limited the passing attempts and yardage. Look at the stretch last season when Seattle won 5 of 6. The most passing yardage in any of those games? 226. And the attempts per game ranged from 16 to 34, with the average being well below the 35 attempts per game in the first 5 games of the season.