im really into programming, tho i suck at it( just finished pointers), i would definatly like to program , i am a junior in highschool now, and i was wondering, if jobs are available for c++ programmers , how much do they make? i also would like to know if i would be hired in the summer after i finish the cource( i know much of that depends on what i learned and how well i use it, but i put in ALOT of time into this...prolly 8 hours of studying, reading and coding each day.)

there are still alot of things i really dont get and my teacher isnt much of a help unforutatly, gotta love those first year teachers :(

EDIT: Keep in mind you're only going to get a job with a bachelors degree in computer science or some other related discipline

01-16-2003

OneStiffRod

Negative, C++ jobs are only being offered for Sr. positions lately.

If u want a position immediately learn ASP and PHP and PERL and how to make Web applications and Pages.

C++ will take u the farthest in your career, IMO, but to start out the demand for C++ coders is just not there. Continue to learn it and then pickup WIN32 API/MFC windows programming experience. C++ is awesome, but if u want to get your foot in the door u need other skills such as windows or web programming.

Learning JAVA is not a bad option either as there are many positions open.

I'm sorry to have to say it, but C++ jobs are often BORING - unless you're in the gaming industry and even then it is mostly Windows programming and Console API.

Getting your foot in the door is the hardest thing, many here are still trying even with our broad skills.

EDIT: You should consider your skills as a pyramid, you need the fundamentals which you are learning currently with C++. But you cannot consider your BASE to be complete without learning SOME Windows Programming. From there you can add to your skills and start to become attractive to employers.

01-17-2003

golem

Also, having only one experience (programming) makes you much more vulnerable on labour market. Now, after many years I am still more and more convinced that programming can be very good additional skill if you also possess some other key skill. That is being an architect for example with good programming skill could bring you more money, because you can play a part in a specialized project teams aimed on software for architects for example. Eventually you could make your own software and sell it.

This world is hungry for people who are specialized in more than one area. Specialization is good and reasonable, and the sense of it comes with large base of knowledge. Being only programmer can be boring and it may not satisfy you in the distant future. Building of such a base is painful and requires university studies and beyond that many years in the area you have chosen. But it is rewarding.

01-17-2003

adrianxw

The whole industry is in a bit of a slump right now, the wise men say it will pick up in 2 quarters, but they have been saying that for more than a year now - go figure.

A lot of "stock" programming work has been moved to places where the labour costs are cheaper. India for example has many fine education institutes and a willing and able work force. Several European software houses have opened development centres there, and closed them in England, Holland and Sweden, (probably others).

Web programming is an employable skill still, as are the deeper embedded skills.

01-17-2003

shiv_tech_quest

Its worthwhile to be a programmer

Everything depends on what you want to become over a period of time. If you intend to teach or help people in programming, then its worthwhile to take time to specialize in any specific language and a method of programming.

Your work as a programmer will fine-tune your skill set and provide you lot of insight into business (domain knowledge), when when imparted in a class-room makes you a successful trainer / lecturer / professor.

01-17-2003

Shadow12345

Quote:

Negative, C++ jobs are only being offered for Sr. positions lately.

What, exactly, do you consider a senior level position to be? I'm finding the majority of positions being offered (right now) require 2 - 5 years experience.

01-17-2003

FillYourBrain

I would hardly call my job boring stiff rod. if you love C++ you shouldn't find a C++ job boring. that's a strange comment. but then I do work in 3d graphics quite heavily (not games) so that could work to my advantage. I say if you love it, do it. but don't do it just cause you want to make loads of money. There's no telling where the industry is really going these days. we may become just another profession in the lower middle class like everyone else. I don't have a problem with that. I'm doing this because I love it, not with the hope of making 100,000 like some people.

01-17-2003

minesweeper

I'm really glad this topic has come up actually as I would like similar advice. Before university I had no exposure to computers and I chose to do an MEng in systems engineering which, though contains C++ programming and some work with microprocessors, is mainly engineering in the true sense of the word. However i have really got into programming with C++ and in particular I have got into WinAPI. I really enjoy it and would love to program windows applications at least for a few years as a career. I am making a windows app for my final year (MEng) project. I'm not particularly bothered about money, just as long as I have enough to live on, that's fine. I am however concerned that, not being from a CS background will put me at a real disadvantage when going for jobs, for instance both my degree placements were with engineering consultancies. I know full well that I don't have the raw C++ knowledge of some of the CS guys on this board, not through choice (I would love to learn programming all day), but because I am on an MEng. What are my chances do you think of getting into the Windows application industry?

01-17-2003

Shiro

>Most starting programmers make 40K at least in the United
>States. Senior level jobs (5 to 10 years experience or more) can
>easily make in the area of 100K, but you must be excellent.

Hmmm, that is a lot of money. Here in the Netherlands programmers start with about 24.000 euro, which is less than 24.000 US dollar. More experienced can earn double of it.

>Negative, C++ jobs are only being offered for Sr. positions lately.
>
>If u want a position immediately learn ASP and PHP and PERL
>and how to make Web applications and Pages.

In Europe C++ jobs are still offered for starters also. But a most of the jobs are currently available in web development and information systems.

>This world is hungry for people who are specialized in more than
>one area.

Correct. Earlier, specialised people were hot, but currently companies look for people who have a lot of knowledge of many areas. Probably because such people have more overview and can be put at several positions within the company, a specialist can usually put to a few positions. Especially in these days when economy is down, companies want to do a lot with less people.

01-17-2003

adrianxw

>>> but currently companies look for people who have a lot of knowledge of many areas.

I feel I have to comment on that. This may be true in the long term employee market, but tht is not a big sector right now. With project budgets squeezed, the first thing that dissappears is the training budget. For a "we've got a problem - hire someone quick", or the same in the contract market - the specialist is still a desirable commodity.

01-17-2003

Shiro

A comment on that. Our company does, for a big part, projects for other companies. What I noticed is the following: When budgets are lowered, companies don't hire people, that is too expensive. They will try to handle it by themselves and if not, then they just postpone it. If it is really a big problem which they have to solve, they will still try to use their own people for that. So they look for people who have knowledge and experience in several areas so that they can support multiple projects of different types.

Companies usually want a mix of specialists and non-specialists.

01-17-2003

adrianxw

>>> Our company does, for a big part, projects for other companies.

So does ours.

In the last couple of companies I have worked, the marketting people have gone out and got contracts, which we have no hope of delivering with our regular staff. Since permenant staff are so expensive, what we have done is do what we can with the resources we have available, and brought in some specialist contractors to do the rest.

The contractors are expected to start productive work on day one. There is no training/warm-up. they have the spec as a pre-contractual document - after an hour or two on site, we want to know how far they've got.

01-17-2003

Shiro

>The contractors are expected to start productive work on day
>one. There is no training/warm-up. they have the spec as a pre-
>contractual document - after an hour or two on site, we want to
>know how far they've got.

That is very fast, two hours. At our company when it comes to detachement, it is usually for a few weeks or a couple of months. Some even are detached for several years at a different company.

They get some training at the other company and then work there. Sometimes we detach a complete team at the other company.

But I think you are talking about a different kind of contractual workers.

01-17-2003

adrianxw

>>> about a different kind of contractual workers.

I think so. To me "contractors" are specialists who are brought in on a fixed length, fixed term contract to develop a specific piece of software, (hardware/firmware - whatever). Simplistically, they are given a specification, and told they have three months, (or whatever), to deliver it to our QA departments satisfaction.

They tender against our invitation with a price, and their credentials. If those are okay, they get the contract. At the end of the contractual period, they are expected to deliver the goods, if they do, they get paid, if they don't, we take them to court. Whatever, our formal business relationship is over.