The reports are saying that loads of Tories and their backers have been caught up in these papers. Its disgraceful to think that these are the same scum who are taking the money from the poorest people in society while the richest are making sure they get richer and richer.

Melody

4th Apr 2016, 10:49am

It sure is Scotsman not to mention that those parasites are the same people who create a situation where millions of poor souls are wandering this earth from pillar to post.

flam

4th Apr 2016, 10:57am

I would do the same as these people,if I had the money, call it greed if you like,as far as I have read it is not illegal (Could be wrong), 99.9% on this planet wants to make money,it is only a moral thing

john.mcn

4th Apr 2016, 11:41am

How many would do the same flam, probably quite a lot. No One likes opening their pay packet and seeing the government taking a hefty chunk of it before you even see it, imagine how worse you'd feel if that figure was hundreds of thousands. There's nothing illegal or wrong about working within the tax rules and millions of us do it all the time.

angel

4th Apr 2016, 01:59pm

I guess someone is making money from these recent " Off Shore " banking revelation's but after the hue and cry has become non news , the bank and it's customers will go on with their banking as usual .

Melody

4th Apr 2016, 03:34pm

Global corruption on such a scale and it doesn't seem to bother anybody. No wonder they get away with it.

angel

4th Apr 2016, 03:54pm

Melody , it is our own governments who are to blame for this situation . ,nothing being done by them in making it more difficult for those huge corporations, billionaires , millionaires , drug dealers , you name it to move their profits and ill gotten monetary gains out of their countries, so , until something is done this racket will go on forever .

Melody

4th Apr 2016, 04:11pm

Indeed Angel I am well aware of that. They are all guilty of corruption but it would appear that the general feeling in this topic so far has been that of oh well just the way it is.

Dave Grieve

4th Apr 2016, 04:30pm

QUOTE (angel @ 4th Apr 2016, 06:02pm)

Melody , it is our own governments who are to blame for this situation . ,nothing being done by them in making it more difficult for those huge corporations, billionaires , millionaires , drug dealers , you name it to move their profits and ill gotten monetary gains out of their countries, so , until something is done this racket will go on forever .

The number 1 on the list from this neck of the woods is the nephew of the SA State President. Their ill gotten gains come from a corrupt deal set up to skim the oil profits from the Congo. When both countries state presidents are up to the proverbial you know what in corruption. There is not much that can be done.

If only they would transfer the funds through a US bank.

angel

4th Apr 2016, 04:32pm

QUOTE (Melody @ 4th Apr 2016, 04:19pm)

Indeed Angel I am well aware of that. They are all guilty of corruption but it would appear that the general feeling in this topic so far has been that of oh well just the way it is.

unfortunately that is the case , and not unless a solution appears nothing will change . It's much easier for governments to get the taxes from the working public , that costs less money , I suppose " which keeps our taxes down .

Melody

4th Apr 2016, 04:53pm

These people have the cheek to go on about welfare and benefits being too high when folk in the uk are on their knees and may heaven help you if you have a disability or are homeless . While these tax dodgers behave like pigs in a trough.

angel

4th Apr 2016, 06:49pm

The Ultra rich rule this planet Melody and not one law gets past no matter what political party is in power and also that law must be to their advantage . So how do the people solve that problem .

I for one don't have a clue .

wombat

4th Apr 2016, 09:17pm

QUOTE (angel @ 4th Apr 2016, 06:57pm)

The Ultra rich rule this planet Melody and not one law gets past no matter what political party is in power and also that law must be to their advantage . So how do the people solve that problem .

I for one don't have a clue .

wall, firing squad.

GG

4th Apr 2016, 09:45pm

I think that there is – and there always has been – a sizeable elite in our society who are so crazily and selfishly greedy that their sole goal in life is to get as much money for themselves that they do not care about the consequences ... illegal, immoral or anything.

To me, nothing exemplifies this more than the example I read very recently from a great book, The Battle of the Atlantic: How the Allies Won the War, written by Jonathan Dimbleby.

In that battle, the longest and most important of the whole second world war, two paragraphs (among many) stand out to me. These paragraphs show in the goriest detail that we were not 'all in it together' even in WW2. On the one side, we had the powerful group of shipowners and speculators who exhibited such abhorrent and reckless conduct with their ships (bordering on the frequent mass murder of their employees) that many merchant vessels were sunk that could have been saved. The reason for this is that the shipowners profited exorbitantly from insurance payouts if their ships went down.

On the other side, we had the poor merchant sailors who sailed and often went down with the vessels (36,000 allied merchant seamen died during the battle plus the same number of Royal Navy personnel). For those proud men there was hardship beyond belief in conditions that were amongst the worth on earth. And if these brave – but poor – souls managed to somehow survive the sinking of a merchant ship, they got a measly £30 (and utter contempt) to cover their lost worldly possessions.

So, really, nothing changes from generation to generation: a rich, pathetic, greedy, selfish elite who will do anything for more money ... and ordinary, decent, brave, honourable people who – when things go as wrong as they could possibly go – put their lives on the line for a pittance.

GG.

wombat

4th Apr 2016, 09:59pm

QUOTE (john.mcn @ 4th Apr 2016, 11:49am)

How many would do the same flam, probably quite a lot. No One likes opening their pay packet and seeing the government taking a hefty chunk of it before you even see it.

so intimidation begets greed?

wombat

4th Apr 2016, 10:07pm

QUOTE (wombat @ 4th Apr 2016, 11:07pm)

so intimidation begets greed does it ?

intimidation is greed

ktv

5th Apr 2016, 08:11am

it IS illegal to hide your profits and wealth to avoid paying tax on it, which is exactly what these people are doing.you cannot selectively report to the tax office only certain information about your financial status. You have to declare everything earned in the UK and pay all taxes owing.

those that think other wise are either not as intelligent as the claim to be or theyre simply playing the tory im all right jack and be damned with them card.

i suspect its both.

Billyu Boil

5th Apr 2016, 08:16am

QUOTE (angel @ 4th Apr 2016, 06:57pm)

The Ultra rich rule this planet Melody and not one law gets past no matter what political party is in power and also that law must be to their advantage . So how do the people solve that problem .

I for one don't have a clue .

Politicians: you may have a vote, you have no voice.

As George Orwell would have it "The Pigs have become men". Corruption is a disease that is only spread by politicians. Even Mao's China is run by billionaire mandarins and their disgusting amoral families.

Have you read about Iceland's prime minister and his wife. This was elected on his promise to regulate crooked banking. It would be laughable if it were not so tragic. The Malay prime minister: "What 4 Billion dollars???" And there is F.I.F.A. A vote for Qatar??? How much money does the tax payer in the countries where there is still a degree of affluence hand annually to 3rd world politicians who are so openly corrupt they make no secret of it, and if any one complains they end up ( often accompanied with their families ) very and permanently dead.

The next time you go to vote, look at the poster of the smiling "Tribune Of The People" eager for your endorsement to move onto a higher and more lucrative plane, spit on it for that is what he or she is doing to you.

And to those of you who see a distinction between Tory and pseudo socialist, that ended shortly after the second world war.

john.mcn

5th Apr 2016, 06:05pm

QUOTE (wombat @ 4th Apr 2016, 10:15pm)

intimidation is greed

Its now greed to hold onto as much of your own money as you can now?

The tax system penalises people who work hard and invest for the future. If you took your lifes saving and invested it in shares making a nice wee return then you would have to pay capital gains tax on profits over £11k , yet if you took those same savings and bet it on a horse earning you ten times as much then you would not pay one pence in tax. If you work hard, own your own property and other valuables over £325k then your children will have to pay 40% tax on anything over that amount if you pass it on to them. That figure may seem high on a Glesga scheme but in some areas, especially in the south east it would get you very little. Someone i knew living down there was left their parents house and had to sell it due to a tax bill of tens of thousands of £'s.

No one works hard just to lump your kids with a debt from the government, its common sense to put measures in place to prevent it.

BTW i doubt very much my house will be worth anywhere near the threshold any time soon, but with immigration being as it is, well prices can only go up..

angel

5th Apr 2016, 07:34pm

Here in Canada ,a deceased persons estate must file a tax return which is done before an heir can take over that estate , the government takes it's dues before anyone and all assets of the deceased are calculated on the market value at the time of death , depending on how wealthy the deceased was this can be as much as 50% .

There is probably more to this but it is basically what happens here . with the exception of the primary residence of the deceased which seems to be safe . unless the estate still owes the government money , then it would be up to the heir to pay those taxes .

ktv

6th Apr 2016, 08:56am

QUOTE (john.mcn @ 5th Apr 2016, 07:13pm)

The tax system penalises people who work hard and invest for the future.

hoarding money abroad creates no investment at all

the tax system (attempts) to get people to pay their share into the country but the wealthy think because theyre rich enough then they shouldnt have to pay their share and its ok to use devious means to avoid paying it

people like you are exactly what is wrong with this country, youl accuse a poor immigrant of using up your valuable services then make excuses for multi millionaires who avoid paying their share into the system that pays for the exact same services.

its just us poor that should pay taxes is that it?

you definitely are a son of thatcher right enough and i dont give a hoot if you see this or not.

flam

6th Apr 2016, 10:42am

We all try to better ourselves, some use the black market,its just greed,and that is what I would do e,g, If I go to a well known car dealer, who will charge me £500 for a repair, when I guy I know would do it for £200,and he does not want a receipt for the job.likewise me..Cant complain can I. .We all know somebody who will do a job without putting in tax return on the job they have done

ktv

6th Apr 2016, 11:07am

little too much truth in this satire

QUOTE

EVERYONE has returned to work after learning that the system is a giant conspiracy designed to ruin their lives.

After discovering that the people telling them to knuckle down and accept cuts are squirreling their money away overseas to avoid tax, then often using that money to buy many houses and thus make them incredibly expensive, Britons said they had better get to the office.

Sales administrator Tom Logan said: “I can’t think about it too much now because I have to get on an overcrowded, filthy underground train to the job that I hate, so that I can continue to earn just enough money – after the tax has been taken out at source – to pay my rent.

“This morning is particularly important because the company hasn’t been making enough profit for the shareholders, several of whom are already billionaires, so we are all going to get a massive bollocking and told we have to do longer hours.

“It’s a bit of a nightmare really, it’s lucky they don’t keep moving the retirement age back while claiming that the country is running out of cash.

“Oh.”

Meanwhile David Cameron confirmed that returning to work was exactly the right thing to do, and that if you kept refusing to do so he would eventually get the police to hit you with truncheons.

from the daily mash

ktv

6th Apr 2016, 11:27am

QUOTE (flam @ 6th Apr 2016, 11:50am)

We all try to better ourselves, some use the black market,its just greed,and that is what I would do e,g, If I go to a well known car dealer, who will charge me £500 for a repair, when I guy I know would do it for £200,and he does not want a receipt for the job.likewise me..Cant complain can I. .We all know somebody who will do a job without putting in tax return on the job they have done

everyone does that sometimes, though still wrong the difference is doing that you wont single handedly avoid paying millions in tax every year. working class people fiddling a very minor amount of tax each year is minuscule to the billions avoided by wealthy corporation owners.

a perfect example is camerons family fortune, they profited millions every single year in the uk but havent paid a single penny in tax for 30 YEAR!!!!.

the guy who does your car repair for £200 will still pay some tax on his earnings yet he'll be 10 times more likely to be investigated and imprisoned if they find a penny unpaid.

they whole system is corrupt and biased in favour of the rich, there are 3000+ people investigation DWP fraud estimated at £1.2 billion(est by DWP) a year(yet £1.5 is underpaid) and only 300 people investigating tax fraud at £34 billion a year(HMRC est) and the only people ever prosecuted under tax laws are your mechanic type guy not millionaires and their ilk.

regardless if its technically illegal or not the "i worked hard for my money so i shouldnt have to contribute to the system" argument is morally corrupt at any time but worse when our services are crumbling around us due to underfunding.

Betsy2009

6th Apr 2016, 11:38am

Melody

6th Apr 2016, 01:40pm

Austerity policies! Ye have to laugh.they say that you can't kid all of the people all of the time but they seem to have managed it.

john.mcn

6th Apr 2016, 05:11pm

QUOTE (flam @ 6th Apr 2016, 10:50am)

We all try to better ourselves, some use the black market,its just greed,and that is what I would do e,g, If I go to a well known car dealer, who will charge me £500 for a repair, when I guy I know would do it for £200,and he does not want a receipt for the job.likewise me..Cant complain can I. .We all know somebody who will do a job without putting in tax return on the job they have done

Millions of us dont pay the taxes we should, that £200 you mention is £40 vat not paid right away. If someone does 'cash jobs' you can pretty much guarantee its not all getting declared and thats reflected in the price. Anyone who thinks that the billions of £'s of tax revenue lost is solely down to millionaires or billionaires is deluded. The only way to solve it is a cashless system and i'd guess thats not that too far off into the future.

flam

6th Apr 2016, 09:41pm

Couldn,t agree more..J.MCN

wombat

6th Apr 2016, 10:07pm

QUOTE (john.mcn @ 6th Apr 2016, 05:19pm)

The only way to solve it is a cashless system

nope, people will just steal goods and barter them

GG

6th Apr 2016, 10:07pm

Good to see that two elitist organisations (UEFA and FIFA), who have combined effectively to destroy the game of football over the last few decades, might get their comeuppance ... although probably not!

QUOTE

Panama Papers: Uefa offices searched by Swiss police

The offices of European football's governing body Uefa have been searched by Swiss police.

It follows the naming of ex-secretary general Gianni Infantino - now president of world governing body Fifa - in papers leaked from Panamanian law firm Mossack Fonseca.

Meanwhile, a Fifa official also named in the papers - Juan Pedro Damiani - has resigned.

Infantino has denied wrongdoing while Uefa says it is helping police.

While working for Uefa, Infantino co-signed a television rights deal in 2006 with two businessmen who have since been accused by the FBI of bribery.

Cross Trading - owned by Hugo Jinkis and his son Mariano - bought TV rights for Uefa Champions League football in 2006 for $111,000 (£78,000) and immediately sold them to Ecuadorian broadcaster Teleamazonas for $311,170 (£220,000).

Cross Trading also paid $28,000 (£20,000) for the rights to the Uefa Super Cup, selling those to Teleamazonas for $126,200 (£89,000).

The contract came to light after 11 million documents were leaked from Mossack Fonseca. [...]

David Cameron pays his taxes. What does he want, a round of applause? Tory MPs in defence of their premier last night took to Twitter to almost congratulate a man for saying he pays tax. What a guy, what a hero.

Am I missing something? Applauding such mediocrity seems unusual. Are we now to expect celebrations because he can tie his shoe laces or that he can grow hair. He's not a toddler, he's the sodding Prime Minister. Later I shall take to the streets of Yardley and hand out gold star stickers to all the people in the local Tesco, "well done Barbara, lovely tax-paying you did there while buying that curling iron, you really are a very good girl."

So David Cameron's dad didn't pay his fair share of taxes. The sins of Cameron's dad are not his fault. True, but the Government are no strangers to damning the children of people who they think aren't doing their bit for society. Barnardo's, the Child Poverty Action Group and many others have all said that the Conservative Welfare and Work Bill will make poor children poorer. Policies such as only paying tax credits to the first two children in a family directly penalise children for the decisions of their parents. So in Tory Britain poor kids are paying the price for the actions of their parents but David Cameron doesn't have to?

The Tories want taxpayers to hate people on benefits and be annoyed that we are paying for their lifestyle, I think it was IDS referred to as, "a direction which divides society". To use the words of the Prime Minister, 'let me be clear': The sins of Daddy Cameron were not illegal but they are utterly disgusting. They are worse than the sins of fathers up and down the country who can't find work, even the most feckless amongst them.

People who don't pay their taxes are robbing from us all. The Camerons may well have forked out for education and health services, but it was my money that trained the doctors, nurses and teachers they used. Without the taxpayer the posh who jump the queue would just be sitting in a rather nicely decorated room without the staff to actually deliver the service. Every time Cameron Snr drove his car on a public highway, every time he could see on the street because of a streetlight, every day when there was a pavement outside his house and a regular bin collection, he took money from you, the nation's honest taxpayers, without seeing fit to put his hand in his pocket. And while the Camerons had a bob or two I doubt very much they funded their own private police force and army. I mean the Eton set are a bit old fashioned but think the acts of livery and maintenance is a step to far even for them. So they got the security we all enjoy but it was you footing the bill, not daddy darling.

What makes it worse is that they got the best of everything while you paid the tab. They reaped the benefits of your hard toil, and because they had money to spare they got the best education, smaller class sizes, better service. Their kids got privilege that you paid for but never benefited from.

So David Cameron doesn't need our praise for paying his tax. He's not a very clever boy, he's a very average boy who used privilege rather than brains to get where he got. Perhaps we could all buy our babies a better life if only we weren't burdened with being decent human beings.

Jess Phillips is the Labour MP for Birmingham Yardley

GG

7th Apr 2016, 09:37pm

Great article, Melody. Thanks for sharing. It shows the selfishness, greed and class hatred that defines psyche of our ruling elites.

And just when you thought it could not get more seedy ...

QUOTE

David Cameron had stake in father's offshore trust

David Cameron has said he and his wife Samantha owned shares in an offshore trust set up by his late father, before selling them for £30,000 in 2010.

The PM has faced questions over Blairmore Holdings, an offshore company set up by his late father, Ian.

He told ITV News he had paid all UK taxes due on the profits he made from the sale of the shares and said the firm had not been set up to avoid tax.

Labour said the PM had been forced into the "extraordinary admission".

The BBC understands Mr Cameron will publish his tax returns, possibly next week.

There have been days of headlines about Blairmore Holdings, a fund for investors which, until 2006, used "bearer shares" to protect its clients' privacy, following the leak of 11 million documents held by Panama-based law firm Mossack Fonseca. [...]

Sometimes I just despair.I would mind if they used their tax savings to pay for this but WE are paying for it ...

Samantha Cameron has hired a £53,000 aide to help keep her fashionable using taxpayer's money, it's been reported.

The Prime Minister's wife is said to have recruited former model Rosie Lyburn to organise her designer wardrobe and social diary.

The 28-year-old is apparently Ms Cameron’s official “special adviser”, a title usually given to ministers’ aides.

Scotsman

8th Apr 2016, 08:37am

And this was the liar who said that he came in to clamp down on this kind of thing when he is actually already and still profiting from it.... time for this horrible little man and his snobby wife to go!!

Betsy2009

8th Apr 2016, 08:55am

Meant to say 'wouldn't mind', of course.

As a fashion advisor, I'd advise them to get matching outfits with all over little arrows, accessorised with a ball and chain!

Betsy2009

8th Apr 2016, 08:58am

Anyone fancy a day out in London?

Edward Snowden has called on the British people to rise up and demand that David Cameron resign.

The fugitive whistleblower urged voters to attend a protest outside Downing Street to force the Prime Minister from office.

In a series of tweets, Mr Snowden , said the next 24 hours "could change Britain."

He suggested the outrage at Mr Cameron's admission that he trousered thousands in profits from his father's offshore fund could spark the same kind of protests that yesterday forced Icelandic PM Sigmundur David Gunnlaugsson to quit.

An estimated 10% of Icelandic voters took to the streets on Tuesday night, furious at the revelation that Mr Gunnlaugsson had hidden millions in an offshore fund.

Mr Snowden tweeted: "It's up to the British people, not us. In Iceland, 10% of all voters were in the streets within 24 hours, and for less."

The one thing I don't understand about all this is - why is anyone surprised???What else would you expect?Or is it just the glee of having proof?

Melody

8th Apr 2016, 09:30am

I don't think anyone is surprised in the slightest Betsy but it's just fab to see them all exposed in the media just in case anyone is not sure of what the Tories are all about. Absolute glee.

Betsy2009

8th Apr 2016, 09:33am

flam

8th Apr 2016, 11:53am

I bet some of you on here have lovely bought houses/homes after Mrs Thatcher gave people the opportunity to buy their own houses at a marvellous discount..I would call that greed, so it is not only Tories who have greed on their mindIf I could get something for nothing, I would take it in a minute,just give me a ring

pumps100

8th Apr 2016, 03:46pm

Did anyone see the Industry Minister Nick Boles MP on BBC Breakfast this morning? Obviously he drew the short straw and was sent out to defend Cameron. It was a car crash of an interview. Boles had probably been coached by his staff and had a 'script' to an anticipated question which was not asked. Charlie Stayt of BBC Breakfast is, in my opinion, highly under rated. He did a good job on the weasel Boles.

I see there is 2 Irish Guys named in the "Panama Papers" one being Dermot Desmond a large shareholder in Glasgow Celtic ,and reputed to be worth 1.38 Billion, also J.P.McManus, I think that guy owns horses,and I believe his stable Jockey was at one time A.P.McCoy.maybe somebody on this forum would correct me if I am wrong

carmella

8th Apr 2016, 09:50pm

The so-named Panama list is only one such list, I wonder how many more legal firms in Panama could name, names!!

Just a thought.

Flam an awful lot of people bought their council houses because of Maggie Thatcher, but they didn't pay the market value, depending on how long they had been tenants, they got huge discounts, so made money overnight literally when the missives were complete - and I bet there are a few of them on here too.

bilbo.s

8th Apr 2016, 09:55pm

QUOTE (flam @ 8th Apr 2016, 08:22pm)

I see there is 2 Irish Guys named in the "Panama Papers" one being Dermot Desmond a large shareholder in Glasgow Celtic ,and reputed to be worth 1.38 Billion, also J.P.McManus, I think that guy owns horses,and I believe his stable Jockey was at one time A.P.McCoy.maybe somebody on this forum would correct me if I am wrong

A wee bit of a sectarian comment there, flam? Maybe somebody on this forum would correct me if I am wrong.