Since in the new patch notes, WoG has a 20-second CD, what's the take on the value of these talents now?

I will probably get 2/2 Guarded at this point because I don't want extra WoG healing wasted at ALL, but I'm thinking I'll drop Eternal Glory for SotP, and I'm just not quite sure what my spec will look like yet but I'm sure more changes are incoming.

If EG doesn't change, and WoG goes live with a 20-second cooldown, then EG becomes a DPS/threat talent for Ret/Prot. At that point, it's just a matter of whether it's more or less effective than SotP, which sims should easily tell us.

WoG on 20 sec CD. Don't know about GbtL. Starts to look like Mending enchant extra healing overall, with the main difference that you can dial in the 2 - 3k extra heal when needed. I haven't seen anywhere close to enough raid content to even guess if you can reliably dial in the Holy Shield from 2/2 GbtL, which for me would be the only reason to spend two talent points there.

I think I'd move the one point I have in GbtL today into HG to make sure I have SOMETHING to punch every global in case I get an unlucky string of missed CS.

The proposed change furher enforces my concern (expressed earlier in another thread) that pally tanks will be seen as pumping out excessive damage. Arguably unmissable rebukes alleviates that potential dilemma to a large degree.

Edit: Insert foot in mouth. Ok, deleting one point in GbtL is insane, forgot the base shield. Would be too dangerous having it empty if you need to leave 3 HoPo up for a predicted self-heal. Danger being missed CS causing 10% block value to fall off.

Obviously it is too early to argue one way or another, but just something to consider with the grand crusader change is how fast you can get holy shield up now with a proc without it. If GS procs at the end of a HP cycle (when CS gives 3) its 6s before you're full again with CS-AS-CS. I think it being able to refesh holy shield is still worth a single point just for the sake of being more versatile in what options are available for keeping it up.

I'm thinking of picking up AS glyph with my 2nd GC point though I love it's current state that it's considered 3 single target attacks and thus refreshes Censure on all 3.

I was wondering this myself, with AS proccing Holy power and WoG on 20sec CD, almost seems to be that we will be drowning in Holy power. And will keeping EG get a better threat result, but using it will take a extra gcd's where SotP wouldn't.

Even if you aim to get every WOG within 2 GCD's of the CD coming back up, you should still be able to get a filler to maintain Holy Shield....

The problem with EG is it's an unreliable Threat talent.. When threat matters, People will not risk casting WOG and hoping for EG to keep threat goingWhen threat no longer matters, people may WOG-EG-SotR, but it's a moot threat point at that point.

So even if it's better on paper then other threat talents, it will need a significant lead in threat & DPS to get many prot pallies to consider it (at least, prot pally's that are not still huge self-healers post 4.1)

Well in the end, this talent now only comes into the choice "EG or SotP". Both are quite crap honestly so, one can just pick the talent that adapts to his playstyle better.

theckhd wrote:Fuck no, we've seen what you do to guilds. Just imagine what you could do to an entire country. Just visiting the US might be enough to make the southern states try to secede again.

halabar wrote:Noo.. you don't realize the problem. Worldie was to negative guild breaking energy like Bolvar is to the Scourge. If Worldie is removed, than someone must pick up that mantle, otherwise that negative guild breaking energy will run rampant, destroying all the servers.

I'm currently planning to drop EG for SotP once 4.1 goes live. Both are simply threat talents at that point, and unless we get testing that shows EG providing significantly better overall TPS than SotP I'd prefer to take the more reliable of the two.

It seems to me that SoI will be even more important with the amount of WoG healing that we are losing. So basically if you plan on using SoI take EG otherwise take SotP. Why you wouldn't use SoI especially after the WoG cd gets added I'm not sure.

theckhd wrote:If EG doesn't change, and WoG goes live with a 20-second cooldown, then EG becomes a DPS/threat talent for Ret/Prot. At that point, it's just a matter of whether it's more or less effective than SotP, which sims should easily tell us.

Hey Theck,Are you considering adding points to EG for your Retribution off spec?

Not particularly, but I only go Ret for H-Atramedes. On all of our remaining progression fights, I'm tanking. I got to use my Ret set a lot more when we were farming normal modes and didn't need as many tanks.

I swapped to Seals of the Pure from EG. I kept 1 point in Guarded by the Light so that if I *do* WoG, I get the extra 10% block, but EG simultaneously provides less threat than SotP, introduces another element of randomness into the rotation, and doesn't make that much of a difference considering the (SD,Inq)SotR>Inq>CS>AS>J>HW rotation. SotP gains extra benefit from Inq usage if I understand it correctly, so it's an even better threat boost at the start of a fight (which is when threat's most problematic anyway).

I decided to while I was respeccing today to keep WoG talents. My thought process behind this is that if I"m using WoG now I'm using it for a reason. That reason is I"m probably low or need to be helping healers out ( I miss spamming WoG sooo bad).

So I'd rather have the 2/2 GBtL, not for the shield but just for the extra healing ( again if I"m using WoG I'm using it for a reason)

On top of that eternal glory for me is still nice because its like oh hey i just had to WoG or I'd probably die but I"mi low on threat or I had to use WoG when I had a sacred duty proc.