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Re: Giancarlo Stanton

Originally Posted by Scrap Irony

Interesting.

An Oscar Taveras/ Allen Craig/ Shelby Miller deal is massive. The Marlins would likely insist on Carlos Martinez and Trevor Rosenthal as well, while shuffling off Ricky Nolasco. (At least I would, were I the GM.)

Call me crazy, but I'd rather have Taveras, Craig, Miller and I'm not particularly torn about it.

Games are won on run differential -- scoring more than your opponent. Runs are runs, scored or prevented they all count the same. Worry about scoring more and allowing fewer, not which positions contribute to which side of the equation or how "consistent" you are at your current level of performance.

Re: Giancarlo Stanton

Originally Posted by Scrap Irony

Interesting.

An Oscar Taveras/ Allen Craig/ Shelby Miller deal is massive. The Marlins would likely insist on Carlos Martinez and Trevor Rosenthal as well, while shuffling off Ricky Nolasco. (At least I would, were I the GM.)

That'd give the Marlins a semblance of a lineup to look forward to in a couple of years while also keeping seats warm on the big league team.

A Marisnick/ Taveras/ Yelich OF could be a joy to watch in two or three years. Fast, three CF defensively with power and serious tools. (And, if you're not a believer in Marisnick, there are a bunch of others in that system; they have a ton of interesting OFers and LHP.) Add Craig as a 1B slugger and Dietrich as a Dan Uggla clone at 2B, and I could see Miami making a run in a couple of years with a lineup of:
Marisinick CF
Yelich RF
Taveras LF
Craig 1B
Dietrich 2B
Brantly C
Hechaverria SS

A possible rotation of Jacob Turner, Miller, Martinez, Jose Fernandez, and Eovaldi or Nicolino sure could be tough. Add in a slew of high upside prospects and Rosenthal as the back end of the bullpen, and you've got enough for a team to consider moving a talent like Stanton.

The pen is still a work in progress, but, yeah, that deal makes a lot of sense for both teams.

Nice job, mth.

They could also give Holliday a 1B glove and stick Jay out in the OF or use Matt Adams at 1B. The Cards are loaded with soiid depth and will be a force soon with or without Stanton IMO. The Reds have an opportunity this year while the Cards sort through those arms and Garcia and Carpenter look iffy, which is why I'm against creating holes. Next year, its going to be a dogfight and dealing for Stanton would likely make 2014 holes in Cincy in CF and in the Rotation with no backfills for Choo and Arroyo.

Funny, the only teams that can really afford to deal for Stanton are the ones that don't really have to have him. I'd say Texas and St. Louis are the two best matches.

"All I can tell them is pick a good one and sock it." --BABE RUTH

Having better players makes "the right time" or "the big hit" happen a lot more often. PLUS PLUS

Re: Giancarlo Stanton

Originally Posted by mth123

They could also give Holliday a 1B glove and stick Jay out in the OF or use Matt Adams at 1B. The Cards are loaded with soiid depth and will be a force soon with or without Stanton IMO. The Reds have an opportunity this year while the Cards sort through those arms and Garcia and Carpenter look iffy, which is why I'm against creating holes. Next year, its going to be a dogfight and dealing for Stanton would likely make 2014 holes in Cincy in CF and in the Rotation with no backfills for Choo and Arroyo.

Funny, the only teams that can really afford to deal for Stanton are the ones that don't really have to have him. I'd say Texas and St. Louis are the two best matches.

Re: Giancarlo Stanton

Originally Posted by mth123

Very Possible. They aren't shopping him, but would move him if offered a package that reboots the organization. I don't think the Reds have such a package to give.

I would guess if they are as bad as the Astros of a year ago, he might go somewhere in July. It is going to be difficult for them to get value for him. While it stinks for him, they would be smart to keep him, pay him, and build around him. But they haven't been doing smart things lately, so anything is possible. I just don't see the Reds even kicking the tires, unless they get wind that they are looking for less than expected.

Re: Giancarlo Stanton

Originally Posted by Scrap Irony

Interesting.

An Oscar Taveras/ Allen Craig/ Shelby Miller deal is massive. The Marlins would likely insist on Carlos Martinez and Trevor Rosenthal as well, while shuffling off Ricky Nolasco. (At least I would, were I the GM.)

That'd give the Marlins a semblance of a lineup to look forward to in a couple of years while also keeping seats warm on the big league team.

A Marisnick/ Taveras/ Yelich OF could be a joy to watch in two or three years. Fast, three CF defensively with power and serious tools. (And, if you're not a believer in Marisnick, there are a bunch of others in that system; they have a ton of interesting OFers and LHP.) Add Craig as a 1B slugger and Dietrich as a Dan Uggla clone at 2B, and I could see Miami making a run in a couple of years with a lineup of:
Marisinick CF
Yelich RF
Taveras LF
Craig 1B
Dietrich 2B
Brantly C
Hechaverria SS

A possible rotation of Jacob Turner, Miller, Martinez, Jose Fernandez, and Eovaldi or Nicolino sure could be tough. Add in a slew of high upside prospects and Rosenthal as the back end of the bullpen, and you've got enough for a team to consider moving a talent like Stanton.

Re: Giancarlo Stanton

Originally Posted by traderumor

I seriously doubt that the Reds are having one serious conversation on Stanton. They have a team that projects as a 95+ win team in the house now. It would be like blowing up their yacht, which they have invested millions in to get it where it is, because it only had a HD flat screen TV, then paying $50M for a new yacht because it had a 3D flat screen TV.

I understand why any fan would want Stanton on their team. It just is so unrealistic that even trying to put names to a deal seems like so much silliness.

I don't think the Marlins are even having conversations on Stanton. They've no incentive to trade him at all. He's young and cheap and the one guy they can keep that will still keep some semblance of a crowd coming to home games.

I agree with your earlier sentiment completely... He'll be in their lineup on Opening Day.

"No matter how good you are, you're going to lose one-third of your games. No matter how bad you are you're going to win one-third of your games. It's the other third that makes the difference." ~Tommy Lasorda

Re: Giancarlo Stanton

I agree the idea of acquiring Stanton is highly unlikely and runs the potential of destroying the Reds farm system.

But then again, nobody knows what it would take. Chapman, Hamilton, Stephenson for Stanton? I'd do that in a heartbeat. Most other proposals, I'd pass, and stay the course.

Sure, that sounds great from the Reds POV, but I doubt Miami wants Chapman. He's too expensive for them.

I can't see how a trade could work without giving up at least one of Frasier/Cozart/Mez in addition to Hamilton and pitching prospects.
It might still be a net gain in talent for the Reds, but creates some holes as well, and the Reds have no money left to backfill.. Then there's the sticker shock when Stanton hits arbitration.

Thank you Walt and Bob for bringing winning baseball back to Cincy

Nov. 13, 2007: One of the greatest days in Reds history: John Allen gets the boot!

Re: Giancarlo Stanton

Originally Posted by Brutus

I don't think the Marlins are even having conversations on Stanton. They've no incentive to trade him at all. He's young and cheap and the one guy they can keep that will still keep some semblance of a crowd coming to home games.

I agree with your earlier sentiment completely... He'll be in their lineup on Opening Day.

Not to mention that this whole debate started because of a rumor started by LEATHERPANTS.

Re: Giancarlo Stanton

Originally Posted by REDREAD

Sure, that sounds great from the Reds POV, but I doubt Miami wants Chapman. He's too expensive for them.

I can't see how a trade could work without giving up at least one of Frasier/Cozart/Mez in addition to Hamilton and pitching prospects.
It might still be a net gain in talent for the Reds, but creates some holes as well, and the Reds have no money left to backfill.. Then there's the sticker shock when Stanton hits arbitration.

Hamilton, Chapman, Mez, Corcino for Stanton. I think the Fish would be stupid to pass on that. In fact, I think it's an overpay. And I don't know why you think Chapman is that expensive. He's pretty cheap for what he delivers. And he should be an attendance booster.

"I can't take this homerism anymore." - 10xWSChamps, August 11, 2010. A Cardinals fan having a problem with all the homerism on Redszone. Classic.

"Man do I miss the days where were didn't need a calculator and an encyclopedia of baseball metrics to enjoy a baseball game ... - MikeS21" - 8/2/12 game thread

Re: Giancarlo Stanton

Hamilton, Chapman, Mez, Corcino for Stanton. I think the Fish would be stupid to pass on that. In fact, I think it's an overpay. And I don't know why you think Chapman is that expensive. He's pretty cheap for what he delivers. And he should be an attendance booster.

Well, I think Miami is going to go into Carl Lindner 2003 mode now.. They got their new ballpark, time to cut the salaries to the bone. I doubt they are that worried about attendence. That's the downside to revenue sharing and the huge TV contract. It's very profitable to sandbag payroll and have minimal attendence..

Thank you Walt and Bob for bringing winning baseball back to Cincy

Nov. 13, 2007: One of the greatest days in Reds history: John Allen gets the boot!

Re: Giancarlo Stanton

Chapman is still owed $9.75 Million in deferred signing bonus through 2020, has a $2 Million Salary for 2013 and his 2014 salary of $3 Million will convert to a bonus as soon as he's arb eligible after the 2013 season. He'll probably be due around $8 Million or so in arb award for 2014 with two more years at an even higher salary after that and before he's eligible for free agency. Unless the Reds are paying a bunch of that, the Marlins won't want to have anything to do with him IMO and if the Reds do pay a lot of that, I doubt there will be money to afford Stanton when he becomes arb eligible in 2014.

IMO, a deal involving Chapman make absolutely no sense.

"All I can tell them is pick a good one and sock it." --BABE RUTH

Having better players makes "the right time" or "the big hit" happen a lot more often. PLUS PLUS

Re: Giancarlo Stanton

Unless the Reds are paying a bunch of that, the Marlins won't want to have anything to do with him IMO

Marlins are not necessarily strip mining here. They have offloaded big contracts and can now take on salary. My guess is that Selig has pretty much told Lorie to at least make an effort to appear to field a passable squad.

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