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The two party system will always exist as long as we have the election system we have. Even if you allowed the Greens and the Libertarians at the debate it would still be the Democrats versus the Republicans because people will vote for the one they like better that has a real shot at winning. Parliamentary systems would be better at fostering additional parties.

I agree. In that sort of system there also wouldn't be the constant accusations of illegitimacy that occur when Congress and the President are from different parties. The electorate would be allowed to try different style of governance on a more up-to-the-election basis, making for more decisive shifts in policy. Not that a fast moving government doesn't have it's drawbacks too.

I'm voting for Gary Johnson, or writing in Ron Paul, or just putting some random name, and just voting on the issues.

Whats the point in that? Seriously, no offense but you guys smoke too much weed. You know I like you Cedar, but you guys need to explain how writing in whoever accomplishes anything. What is the point?

Whats the point in that? Seriously, no offense but you guys smoke too much weed. You know I like you Cedar, but you guys need to explain how writing in whoever accomplishes anything. What is the point?

I'm Voting for Gary Johnson as well. The point is that candidates should have to earn your vote, not win them by default because they're just slightly better than the other horrible candidate. If more people thought like Cedar both parties would actually have to worry about nominating great candidates in order to win. Both R's and D's know that they can make promises to get elected and not fulfill them, yet still get reelected because their respective base will vote for them no matter what. If that changed and more people stopped voting for a guy by default, then maybe both sides would actually keep the promises they make, or stop making unrealistic promises during the campaign.

I'm Voting for Gary Johnson as well. The point is that candidates should have to earn your vote, not win them by default because they're just slightly better than the other horrible candidate. If more people thought like Cedar both parties would actually have to worry about nominating great candidates in order to win. Both R's and D's know that they can make promises to get elected and not fulfill them, yet still get reelected because their respective base will vote for them no matter what. If that changed and more people stopped voting for a guy by default, then maybe both sides would actually keep the promises they make, or stop making unrealistic promises during the campaign.

I can understand what youre saying, and I would agree that generally we are left choosing between 2 options that dont look so great. I get that.

But, you have to be realistic. More people arent going to think like Cedar. Its just not going to happen. We live in a country where the large majority of people are clueless. Youre not going to change that. It would take a LONG time to change the culture to where most people have a clue and we could have a system of multiple parties and a government that could work with rapid changes like that.

And what are you guys doing to get this change started? Writing in people that nobody cares about? How does that help? Sitting on your couch smoking bongs? How does that help? Posting on FH? How does that help? If you truly believe this **** needs to happen, then make it your life cause and get out there and stir the ****. Create the change. Be the change.

Fact is we have 2 candidates to choose from who can win. Thats the situation we are in. So you need to get real and deal with the situation we are in instead of trying to escape that reality. Choose the best option of the two. When this is over, start your campaign to make **** different. As for now, we have a circumstance where the incumbant President has done possibly the worst job of any president for 4 years now. He needs to be removed. You dont like Romney? Fine. But, could he really do worse than Obama?

You need to decide that and choose one of those 2 men. Reality is that one of them will be our leader for the next 4 years. Writing in RuPaul will have ZERO effect on anything.

I can understand what youre saying, and I would agree that generally we are left choosing between 2 options that dont look so great. I get that.

But, you have to be realistic. More people arent going to think like Cedar. Its just not going to happen. We live in a country where the large majority of people are clueless. Youre not going to change that. It would take a LONG time to change the culture to where most people have a clue and we could have a system of multiple parties and a government that could work with rapid changes like that.

And what are you guys doing to get this change started? Writing in people that nobody cares about? How does that help? Sitting on your couch smoking bongs? How does that help? Posting on FH? How does that help? If you truly believe this **** needs to happen, then make it your life cause and get out there and stir the ****. Create the change. Be the change.

Fact is we have 2 candidates to choose from who can win. Thats the situation we are in. So you need to get real and deal with the situation we are in instead of trying to escape that reality. Choose the best option of the two. When this is over, start your campaign to make **** different. As for now, we have a circumstance where the incumbant President has done possibly the worst job of any president for 4 years now. He needs to be removed. You dont like Romney? Fine. But, could he really do worse than Obama?

You need to decide that and choose one of those 2 men. Reality is that one of them will be our leader for the next 4 years. Writing in RuPaul will have ZERO effect on anything.

It's all a matter of opinion, but above is a contrary argument that Obama is likely to lose next month.

I get that people are dissatisfied with the two party process, but until third parties are included in the presidential debates and taken seriously neither the Libertarian, Green or Reform party will ever hold the office of POTUS. Your best bet is for Libertarians to try and carve out their own niche within the GOP, and attempt to have more influence than the Christian Coalition, while the Green Party should attempt to do the same within the Democratic Party. We are society that embraces dichotomy: Coke or Pepsi, Droid or iPhone, Chevy or Ford, Marvel or DC, Analog or Digital, Paper or Plastic, etc.

People are entitled to vote for the third option but know that you end up with options like: Shasta, Blackberry, Chrysler, Darkhorse Comics, cloth bags - all of which have their own merits, but are not likely to embraced by the larger population. The better option is to donate money or support candidates that share similar values to your own and have them succeed within the two party system. The Tea Party did this to some degree, and forced the GOP to take notice that the status quo is not acceptable.

It's all a matter of opinion, but above is a contrary argument that Obama is likely to lose next month.

I get that people are dissatisfied with the two party process, but until third parties are included in the presidential debates and taken seriously neither the Libertarian, Green or Reform party will ever hold the office of POTUS. Your best bet is for Libertarians to try and carve out their own niche within the GOP, and attempt to have more influence than the Christian Coalition, while the Green Party should attempt to do the same within the Democratic Party. We are society that embraces dichotomy: Coke or Pepsi, Droid or iPhone, Chevy or Ford, Marvel or DC, Analog or Digital, Paper or Plastic, etc.

People are entitled to vote for the third option but know that you end up with options like: Shasta, Blackberry, Chrysler, Darkhorse Comics, cloth bags - all of which have their own merits, but are not likely to embraced by the larger population. The better option is to donate money or support candidates that share similar values to your own and have them succeed within the two party system. The Tea Party did this to some degree, and forced the GOP to take notice that the status quo is not acceptable.

That's not an argument, that's a guy who pretty much said "I've made wild guesses in the past and been right, and I'm going to do it again." He offers no discussion of why not only Romney will win, but do it in a landslide. He just says it's going to happen. That's not even close to the same as what Zest just did...

If I could take your pain and frame it, and hang it on my wall,
maybe you would never have to hurt again...

Also, Wayne Allen Root is lying in the Washington Times article TrojanFin posted. He says every poll showed Kerry in the lead; this is wrong. Almost none showed him in the lead. The rest of his "predictions" were what everyone was saying.