In my very humble opinion this is how a SE Asian should present him/herself to the world ( past colonization notwithstanding)

Here is the culture of Burma, colonized and raped by the Brits. Look at how beautiful and proud their culture is:

They are not trying to act British. Now, who wouldn't feel anything but awe when looking at thier culture?

Here are the neighbors to the South - the Indonesians. Ibid.

Here is Laos

Cambodia

Vietnam

And your brothers, the Malays

All these neighbors have one thing in common- they actively promote national culture and are not trying to be Westerners; as a result, there evoke nothing but fascination and this is what they show to foreigners. And dayuhan ay nahalina.

The Philippines has a similar culture but it is not being presented to the world enough.

Look at the Philippines and why is it not being sold to the world? This is fascinating, too

Last edited by ladislav on February 3rd, 2013, 8:46 am, edited 1 time in total.

ladislav wrote:In my very humble opinion this is how a SE Asian should present him/herself to the world ( past colonization notwithstanding)

If that's your thing, then why have you chosen Phils. over Indonesia/Mynmar/Malaysia/Cambodia, etc. as a place to settle, promote, and attempt to localize in?

Visas are easy and people are friendlier to me. The above post was primarily about music and dance and greater respect for local culture as well as promoting it to the world. Those I felt were things that were lacking and I hoped the Philippines follow suit of how its neighbors promote their heritage. Everything else is OK in the PH.

ladislav wrote:In my very humble opinion this is how a SE Asian should present him/herself to the world ( past colonization notwithstanding)

If that's your thing, then why have you chosen Phils. over Indonesia/Mynmar/Malaysia/Cambodia, etc. as a place to settle, promote, and attempt to localize in?

Visas are easy and people are friendlier to me. The above post was primarily about music and dance and greater respect for local culture as well as promoting it to the world. Those I felt were things that were lacking and I hoped the Philippines follow suit of how its neighbors promote their heritage. Everything else is OK in the PH.

Yes, but consider that these things are often inter-related. Perhaps people tend to be friendlier to you in Phils. than in those other countries because they have less pride in their true roots and have adopted some western (American) characteristics to their cultural identity. So if Phils. moved in the direction you are hoping, perhaps your personal experiences there would change for there worse.

BTW, lots of expats live long term in Cambodia and Indonesia too. Malaysia is probably not too difficult either. Visas are generally nan-issue for many Asian countries. Even in Thailand, it's a piece of cake to stay indefinitely (I know many who do) and either leave every 3 months for a quick return trip across a land border or apply for a retirement visa (for those at least 50) or work visa to teach English or do some other job there.

ladislav wrote:In my very humble opinion this is how a SE Asian should present him/herself to the world ( past colonization notwithstanding)

If that's your thing, then why have you chosen Phils. over Indonesia/Mynmar/Malaysia/Cambodia, etc. as a place to settle, promote, and attempt to localize in?

Visas are easy and people are friendlier to me. The above post was primarily about music and dance and greater respect for local culture as well as promoting it to the world. Those I felt were things that were lacking and I hoped the Philippines follow suit of how its neighbors promote their heritage. Everything else is OK in the PH.

Yes, but consider that these things are often inter-related. Perhaps people tend to be friendlier to you in Phils. than in those other countries because they have less pride in their true roots and have adopted some western (American) characteristics to their cultural identity. So if Phils. moved in the direction you are hoping, perhaps your personal experiences there would change for there worse.

BTW, lots of expats live long term in Cambodia and Indonesia too. Malaysia is probably not too difficult either. Visas are generally nan-issue for many Asian countries. Even in Thailand, it's a piece of cake to stay indefinitely (I know many who do) and either leave every 3 months for a quick return trip across a land border or apply for a retirement visa (for those at least 50) or work visa to teach English or do some other job there.

Filipinos are the worst people in the world, no identity, no pride, no culture, self hating people, everyone look down on them

they speak monkey language aka tagalog, lets be honest PH is a stinkhole

decent westerner should aim higher than PH,

think about this, you find 5 foot filipina and decide to have kids with her, when your boy grows up he will have trouble finding a date in the west as he will look filipino, do you really want that??

Yes, but consider that these things are often inter-related. Perhaps people tend to be friendlier to you in Phils. than in those other countries because they have less pride in their true roots and have adopted some western (American) characteristics to their cultural identity. So if Phils. moved in the direction you are hoping, perhaps your personal experiences there would change for there worse.

Perhaps. But perhaps not. This is hypothetical.

BTW, lots of expats live long term in Cambodia and Indonesia too. Malaysia is probably not too difficult either. Visas are generally nan-issue for many Asian countries. Even in Thailand, it's a piece of cake to stay indefinitely (I know many who do) and either leave every 3 months for a quick return trip across a land border or apply for a retirement visa (for those at least 50) or work visa to teach English or do some other job there.

I did not say visas are impossible in other countries. I said they are easier in the Philippines. Try immigration in all those countries and see the requirements by yourself.

Yes, but consider that these things are often inter-related. Perhaps people tend to be friendlier to you in Phils. than in those other countries because they have less pride in their true roots and have adopted some western (American) characteristics to their cultural identity. So if Phils. moved in the direction you are hoping, perhaps your personal experiences there would change for there worse.

Perhaps. But perhaps not. This is hypothetical.

BTW, lots of expats live long term in Cambodia and Indonesia too. Malaysia is probably not too difficult either. Visas are generally nan-issue for many Asian countries. Even in Thailand, it's a piece of cake to stay indefinitely (I know many who do) and either leave every 3 months for a quick return trip across a land border or apply for a retirement visa (for those at least 50) or work visa to teach English or do some other job there.

I did not say visas are impossible in other countries. I said they are easier in the Philippines. Try immigration in all those countries and see the requirements by yourself.

In your travels, haven't you picked-up on the correlation between national or ethnic pride vs. friendliness to foreigners and outsiders? Why else would Pinoys be friendlier to westerners than say Indonesians or Malaysians? Why are Taiwanese friendlier to Americans/westerners (and used to be even more so) than mainland Chinese (study their national/ethnic sense of identity and you will get a good idea)? If you get your wish about Phils, you may find yourself being less and less welcomed.

BTW, in some senses, I think Phils. immigration is a pain in the ass. Sometimes you arrive there with out an onward ticked and they force u to buy one on the spot or be denied entry. No so in Thailand, with dozens of entries, lol. And why do they only give 21 days? It's a pain in the ass?

Why do they only give 21 days on arrival in Phils (plus confirmed onward ticket) if they are so welcoming? Sometimes, its nice to keep flexibility in travel schedule and getting an extension if you are traveling around the more interesting parts (away from main cities) is quite difficult to manage logistically.

Consider other countries in the region. Americans (and dozens of other nationalities get 30 days (extendable) on arrival in Thailand, 30 days in Cambodia (get visa online or at airport), 30 days in Indonesia (get visa at airport), 90 days in Malaysia, SP, Japan, S. Korea, Taiwan (special just for US citizens). Only Burma and China are more of a hassle than Phils. for the Asian countries I visit or am interested in visiting.

For longer term, I've stayed in Thailand and HK for 5 or more months at one time with no problems. Really, visas for most of these countries are so easy that they are a non-issue. How specifically is Phils. easier? For me, I consider it one of the pain-in-the-ass countries in an Asian context as far as red tape is concerned.

If I wanted, I could become a Taiwan citizen in 2-3 months since I've already been a resident here for over 5 years. Would I be able to do that in Phils as well? If not, then how long before I could become a Phils. citizen?

- Many people are rude and inconsiderate without manners or civilized behavior. They cut in line in front of you, interrupt when you're talking to a salesperson, are pushy when they want you to buy something, etc. Beggars will touch you and stand in your way and demand donations. Trike drivers will cat call you as if you were their pet. I've seen construction workers use electric drills and saw wood right in the middle of a crowded restaurant, totally oblivious to the fact that they are annoying the hell out of the customers! (fortunately they were ordered to stop eventually) But boy I've never seen such clueless people.

I agree with you on this. Many people, especially in the big cities, have bad manners. The ones from the provinces are generally better (more polite and unassuming). I cringe whenever I see people spit on the street! Good manners depend on one's family as a whole and even well-to-do families have rude kids or parents.

- In the Philippines, you are constantly surrounded by people with a "give me, give me" look on their faces. And that's because the key to their survival has been in finding ways to GET things from others, taking advantage of them, and freeloading off them. They're always looking for free things and generous people to get things from. But of course, they never want to give anything for free, as nothing in their culture is free. It's obvious hypocrisy of course, but I guess in their position, they can't afford any ethics. This can get annoying and infuriating, as it makes you feel like a constant target, but some expats get used to it and just develop a firm stance against them, while others don't.

The basic hypocrisy here is that everyone is always wanting to get but no one wants to give. This creates an imbalance that leads to consequences.

To them, there is no shame at all in taking, but there is in giving. When Filipinos do give, it's always very little, and if it goes beyond that, there will be extreme reluctance and an attempt to make you feel guilty for forcing them to give. Giving goes against their nature.

I'm sorry but I beg to disagree. It depends on the person - personal values and how he/she was brought up. I know many people who are both generous in material things and in their spirit. One fundraiser sometime back attest to this: We sold expensive tickets to a fashion show/dinner (fundraiser) and a grand old rich lady got them well in advance. Her bank decided to send her free tickets - as a high net worth client - too but she already reserved her tickets with us. Mother and daughter were unanimous in deciding that they would pay for the tickets anyway - they didn't want to return them to us - because it was a fundraiser and they would rather give their free tickets to their friends. A few - perhaps not as wealthy as said mother-daughter but are from old rich families too - complained and asked why was the family/conglomerate hosting the event selling tickets, when such events used to be freebies? It was a fundraiser, of course, but they couldn't grasp the concept.

But basically, Bayanihan - the collective sense of sharing and giving - is still very strong and so is our hospitality

Many Filipinos feel NO SHAME at all in receiving things, even at great expense to the giver, but in fact have an OVEREAGERNESS and INSATIABLE appetite for it.

That's because their desire to receive without shame or guilt supersedes everything without inhibition. It's the nature of their character. There is no shame or guilt in seeing you waste your money either, even if you're poor or on a budget. They are always very willing to receive things from you, even if it bankrupts you.

Many are also not shy to ask you directly for a gift either, hence the popular cultural line they give you when you are about to travel: "Don't forget my pasalubong (gift)." Even jokes like that are revealing in regards to a culture's mentality. Such greediness is the worst in Manila and Angeles City, but not as bad in the rest of the country or the provinces.

There are Filipinos who'd feel uncomfortable with this. Not all are freeloaders. I'd say there's a difference if it was freely offered or shamelessly asked for. I was taught that it's bad manners to return an unsolicited gift. If I have no use for it or if I don't like the sender or it was improper, I'd pass it on to the help (no matter if it was an expensive item) or donate it to charity, In my experience, it's nice to be remembered as far as pasalubongs are concerned. I agree that vereagerness and being insatiable for such are not nice; it is tacky. If there is, fine. If none, that's perfectly all right. But it's a two-way thing: I bring pasalubongs and my friends/relatives/family do the same, too. Anything beyond that... can be tacky, depending on the situation.

- Foreigners are treated like Santa Clauses (without their permission of course). Filipinos hold two major fallacies regarding foreigners:

a) All foreigners have bottomless pockets and can never run out of money no matter how much they spend.
b) All foreigners do not care about price. It is never an issue to them. They are willing to pay any price for anything without dispute. Wasting money is not a concern to them.

But most foreigners are not rich. They are budget conscious, frugal and efficient with their money, not spending beyond what is necessary, which is how it is in the real world after all. The problem is that somehow, all foreigners in the Philippines get lumped into the "splurging unlimited cash" type personified in "Pretty Woman". It's an unfair stereotype, but it exists.

In this regard, I agree. Not everyone is rich and even the rich can refuse to spend. It's a mass mentality that needs to be changed. But those who have been abroad - admittedly a very small percentage of the population, albeit getting bigger due to low cost airlines - know it's not the case. In my case, even as a local, I got a similar experience. The sales ladies where I usually buy silver jewelry from remarked - when asked where I was going on vacation (Hanoi and Kuala Lumpur) for the New Year holidays - that I should take them with me on my next vacation! I was rather shocked!

- Filipinos themselves will playfully admit that they typically behave like children in that when they want something, they want it NOW, without regard to expenses or consequences. So basically you would be dealing with "adult children".

Are you talking about the poor/lower class here? I'm rather surprised by this feeling of entitlement that you described, except for the incident described above (jewelry store girls), which was a recent and isolated incident, but then they didn't want say they wanted such now. Maybe they just say it but don't mean it? But that is rather silly. Mostly you find such behavior in: 1) the really seriously wealthy and old families whose spoiled children or spoiled parents (who never grew up) have trust funds or big inheritances they could live off on; or 2) newly rich families or upper middle class who have pretensions and feel they are part of the "elite" and wish to show off and act spoiled.

I understand some of Winston's points about the con's of living in the Philippines, especially the heat and pollution. But I think many of the communication issues are overcome if you can learn the language(s). Most Filipinos speak Tagalog, English, and one or two local dialects. Judging their intelligence (and manners) based on their ability to express themselves in English is a mistake.

Yes, but consider that these things are often inter-related. Perhaps people tend to be friendlier to you in Phils. than in those other countries because they have less pride in their true roots and have adopted some western (American) characteristics to their cultural identity. So if Phils. moved in the direction you are hoping, perhaps your personal experiences there would change for there worse.

Perhaps. But perhaps not. This is hypothetical.

BTW, lots of expats live long term in Cambodia and Indonesia too. Malaysia is probably not too difficult either. Visas are generally nan-issue for many Asian countries. Even in Thailand, it's a piece of cake to stay indefinitely (I know many who do) and either leave every 3 months for a quick return trip across a land border or apply for a retirement visa (for those at least 50) or work visa to teach English or do some other job there.

I did not say visas are impossible in other countries. I said they are easier in the Philippines. Try immigration in all those countries and see the requirements by yourself.

In your travels, haven't you picked-up on the correlation between national or ethnic pride vs. friendliness to foreigners and outsiders? Why else would Pinoys be friendlier to westerners than say Indonesians or Malaysians? Why are Taiwanese friendlier to Americans/westerners (and used to be even more so) than mainland Chinese (study their national/ethnic sense of identity and you will get a good idea)? If you get your wish about Phils, you may find yourself being less and less welcomed.

BTW, in some senses, I think Phils. immigration is a pain in the a**. Sometimes you arrive there with out an onward ticked and they force u to buy one on the spot or be denied entry. No so in Thailand, with dozens of entries, lol. And why do they only give 21 days? It's a pain in the a**?

Why do they only give 21 days on arrival in Phils (plus confirmed onward ticket) if they are so welcoming? Sometimes, its nice to keep flexibility in travel schedule and getting an extension if you are traveling around the more interesting parts (away from main cities) is quite difficult to manage logistically.

Consider other countries in the region. Americans (and dozens of other nationalities get 30 days (extendable) on arrival in Thailand, 30 days in Cambodia (get visa online or at airport), 30 days in Indonesia (get visa at airport), 90 days in Malaysia, SP, Japan, S. Korea, Taiwan (special just for US citizens). Only Burma and China are more of a hassle than Phils. for the Asian countries I visit or am interested in visiting.

For longer term, I've stayed in Thailand and HK for 5 or more months at one time with no problems. Really, visas for most of these countries are so easy that they are a non-issue. How specifically is Phils. easier? For me, I consider it one of the pain-in-the-a** countries in an Asian context as far as red tape is concerned.

If I wanted, I could become a Taiwan citizen in 2-3 months since I've already been a resident here for over 5 years. Would I be able to do that in Phils as well? If not, then how long before I could become a Phils. citizen?

Ladislav - Rock's statement is hypothetical; isn't your statement that people are friendlier in the PI simply anecdotal? Visas are easy and the people are friendlier? I've been to nearly every single country in SEA and while the Filipinos can be friendly, the people of many other countries are just as friendly, if not more so, and entry into the country much easier. Honestly, just flying in and out of the PI is a major league pain in the ass.

It is getting easier to get a visa to Burma. I've been there 9 or 10 times and love the people and the vibe there.

Like someone said in this thread, the PI is a stink hole. There are some beautiful places in the country but

I read that 40% of men go to the Philippines for sex. Is this true? If so that really says something about the foreign men. Are these low class men with no life quality? Is it because they think Filipinas are dumb so they can manipulate them to do whatever they want? If so, that's pretty bad.

Qcircuit wrote:I read that 40% of men go to the Philippines for sex. Is this true? If so that really says something about the foreign men. Are these low class men with no life quality? Is it because they think Filipinas are dumb so they can manipulate them to do whatever they want? If so, that's pretty bad.

Define "for sex", many do go in search of a spouse and by extension that means for sex sooner or later. However there are areas of the world known for the sex industry and while some go to the strip club, street walker or massage parlor close to home others pay the hotel and airline ante to travel in hope of a lower unit price while travelling to someplace different for them.

ladislav wrote:In my very humble opinion this is how a SE Asian should present him/herself to the world ( past colonization notwithstanding)

If that's your thing, then why have you chosen Phils. over Indonesia/Mynmar/Malaysia/Cambodia, etc. as a place to settle, promote, and attempt to localize in?

Visas are easy and people are friendlier to me. The above post was primarily about music and dance and greater respect for local culture as well as promoting it to the world. Those I felt were things that were lacking and I hoped the Philippines follow suit of how its neighbors promote their heritage. Everything else is OK in the PH.

Yes, but consider that these things are often inter-related. Perhaps people tend to be friendlier to you in Phils. than in those other countries because they have less pride in their true roots and have adopted some western (American) characteristics to their cultural identity. So if Phils. moved in the direction you are hoping, perhaps your personal experiences there would change for there worse.

BTW, lots of expats live long term in Cambodia and Indonesia too. Malaysia is probably not too difficult either. Visas are generally nan-issue for many Asian countries. Even in Thailand, it's a piece of cake to stay indefinitely (I know many who do) and either leave every 3 months for a quick return trip across a land border or apply for a retirement visa (for those at least 50) or work visa to teach English or do some other job there.

Filipinos are the worst people in the world, no identity, no pride, no culture, self hating people, everyone look down on them

they speak monkey language aka tagalog, lets be honest PH is a stinkhole

decent westerner should aim higher than PH,

think about this, you find 5 foot filipina and decide to have kids with her, when your boy grows up he will have trouble finding a date in the west as he will look filipino, do you really want that??

This isn't necessarily true. I know some American filipinos that do very well with women. Two of my filipino friends are at least average American height (maybe taller) and both do well with all kinds of women. Another one is short (probably around 5'4/5'5) and still does well with women.

Of course, those stories are anecdotal....but aren't they all?

Still though, I plan on going to the Philippines and I'm hoping to have all daughters if possible.