Gray areas in texting while driving law complicate things for cops

Ban on sending and receiving data leaves some phone functions outside the law

Rep. Ramon Gonzalez, Perry police chief, illustrates what can happen to a driver who police can see texting while driving. The vague nature of existing Kansas law makes it difficult for law enforcement officers to discern whether a driver is texting, which is illegal, or placing a call, which is legal.

When Rep. Ramon Gonzalez says the state's ban on texting and driving is difficult to enforce, he speaks from personal experience.

Gonzalez, R-Perry, is a police chief in his private life and says it can be hard to tell if motorists on their phones are using them legally or illegally under current law, which allows them to dial phone numbers and make calls with their hands.

Gonzalez introduced a bill last session to enhance penalties for the cellular activities that are banned, which he hoped would increase public knowledge about what those activities are.

"To bring awareness that it's more than just texting, because there's hundreds of (smartphone) apps out there now," Gonzalez said.

House Bill 2500 would have clarified that the penalties don't apply to drivers who are typing in a phone number in order to make a call. It didn’t get a hearing, but Gonzalez said he may try again if re-elected.

Lt. Josh Kellerman, a spokesman for the Kansas Highway Patrol, said KHP issued 56 texting-and-driving citations recently during a statewide enforcement crackdown that lasted 10 days, and the agency plans to have another soon.

Kellerman said the current law is making drivers safer, but it requires law enforcement to observe drivers carefully to confirm they are actually using their phone to perform a function barred by law.

Kellerman said current law penalizes drivers who "write, send or read a written communication" while in motion, meaning it includes the use of social media like Facebook or Twitter or "any time that phone is transmitting any type of data."

Kellerman said sometimes it is easy to discern when that is happening.

"When I pull up alongside you and see you driving with your knees, you're not dialing a phone number," Kellerman said.

Kellerman said cars swerving out of their lanes, remaining stopped when lights turn green and the duration of time motorists spend looking down at their hands also are tipoffs.

But other dangerous activities, such as taking a picture while driving, may not technically be illegal under current law, as long as the driver doesn’t send the photo to a friend or post it online.

"It could be a gray area," Kellerman said. "We hope you're going to pull over and take that picture, because that's about as distracted as you can get, taking your eyes off the road to take a picture."

Kellerman said there also are exemptions in the law for using phones for navigation or to contact law enforcement.

According to the Governors' Highway Safety Association, 37 states and Washington, D.C., ban all cellphone use by "novice drivers.” Twelve states and D.C. ban all handheld cellphone use by all drivers.

Kansas has a ban for novice drivers on a learners permit or intermediate driver's license but has no handheld ban.

"The states that have laws that require speakerphones are probably a little easier to enforce those, obviously," said Ed Klumpp, a lobbyist who represents several law enforcement groups at the state level.

Klumpp said Topeka has a "good city ordinance" on distracted driving in general that covers "people doing anything unreasonable while they're driving down the street."

That would include picture-taking, as well as such activities as shaving or, as Kellerman said he recently observed, reading a book while driving.

To this point, though, Kansas has focused more on texting, which Klumpp said can be a high bar for officers to prove.

"It's difficult to enforce, there's no question about that," Klumpp said. "It's not impossible to enforce, but it's difficult."

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any and all phones, tablets, computers, etc., while driving. I know people who try to find ways around it. If you can't do it without taking your focus from your driving, you probably shouldn't do it. Sometimes it's too late to tell someone you're sorry when you've done something wrong.

No way will I ever be convinced that someone needs to be so busy to have to text and drive. Life is too short to have to be attached to that little electronic device. Talk about withdrawal. We survived a lot of years without being in such a hurry. The new technology is great until people are hurt or lives are lost. One of my kids was rear ended by a young teen as she was texting. My son was waiting to turn off the highway with brake lights and the turn signal operational I'll never forget the kid's mother glaring at me while questioning my kid by asking him "are you sure you stopped the right way)? The LEO couldn't believe her response either.
Oh no, not her little angel!

***Gonzalez, R-Perry, is a police chief in his private life and says it can be hard to tell if motorists on their phones are using them legally or illegally under current law, which allows them to dial phone numbers and make calls with their hands.***If I'm reading that correctly you CAN make phone calls, you just CAN'T text!

A small town police chief with nothing better to do but sit on the highway that runs through town and pull over cars to justify his existence. How bout we all stop worrying about what others are doing inside their vehicles and legislate every breath we take. I have been distracted billions of times while driving a vehicle. Unless your going to legislate eating in a car, talking to a passenger, adjusting the radio, putting your coffee cup in the cup holder, getting a napkin out of the glove box, looking at a map etc. etc. than you are being hypocritical with the uproar over cell phones. Are people going to do it? Yep. Are they gonna drive drunk? Yep. Speed? Yep. Sorry folks you can't legislate yourselves into a complete safety bubble. Bad things and tragic events happen every day it's called life. This is all just "feel good" nonsense. Just pay attention folks and drive YOUR car. Stop worrying about things you can't possibly control.

That makes sense, however, the Topeka law about distracted driving can apply to anything the officer wants it to. So why I am not really questioning what actions get you a ticket. I am more questioning whether the same level of enforcement is focused inward because I see police (Topeka and county deputies mainly) on cell phones all the time and they have onboard laptops. Sure the city enable police vehicles to disable the laptop when the car is in motion? Because typing on the laptop has to be more distracting than trying to take a picture.

"A small town police chief with nothing better to do but sit on the highway that runs through town and pull over cars to justify his existence" That's not Ramon. I've known him for 40 Years.****Gonzalez, R-Perry, is a police chief in his private life and says it can be hard to tell if motorists on their phones are using them legally or illegally under current law, which allows them to dial phone numbers and make calls with their hands.**He's just trying to clear up a confusing Statute. Which part of that "DON'T" you understand?

In some places ANYTHING that causes a driver to be distracted or inattentive is illegal. If your attention is not on your driving, it's possible someone could end up severely injured or worse, dead. Breathing in an involuntary action, so it is not a distraction.

Personally, if someone has the ability to make phone calls or text hands free, that's fine. Anyone who has to hold the phone and makes the phone their priority is an accident waiting to happen. I've been yelled at by my 80-something-year-old mother for not answering the phone, and when I tell her I didn't because I was driving, she changes the subject.

Again, if you can't do it without taking the focus off your driving, don't do it.

And that's my point. It's completely and hopelessly stupid to worry about something that's impossible to enforce. Like I said unless your going to legislate every possible distraction that can possibly occur in a vehicle it's hypocritical to single out this one. This is simply the flavor of the month issue. I spent over a decade in law enforcement and met dozens of small town cops. I know how these things operate so spare me. Also everyone freaking out about officers in car computers don't really know what your talking about. Are they or could they be distracting ? Sure. Lots of things can be. Me driving around in a police car looking all around and being observant doing my job was some of the most distracted driving I have ever done. Those computer screens have very valuable information on them folks. Like addresses for instance. Example - your driving your patrol car and dispatch calls your number. Be in route to 123 Main Street for baby not breathing , or shooting, or stabbing , or whatever travesty has just occurred. They then talk for another minute or two giving you descriptions of suspects, victims , or maybe they are still on the phone with an ongoing situation. No you as an officer are driving fast lights and sirens, watching your driving along with all the other folks on the road. Hearing things like she is now screaming for help, or I can hear shots being fired , or they say the baby is turning blue. Should I stop while I'm route and break out my notepad? Pull over and write down the address, pertinent info? Or would it make more sense to have it right there on a screen to my right? That I can glance at to double check an address, or the description of the guy that says he's going to kill me as soon as I arrive? It's common sense folks. Modern technology that helps. I'm thinking those that are in an uproar about it don't find too much right with anything cops do, and that's fine it's not a popularity contest. But that computer your so upset about is a very valuable tool and might save a life.

****"Me driving around in a police car looking all around and being observant doing my job"*** That statement explains a lot....especially your attitude. One question: Why would you "INSULT" a fellow officer?

" That statement explains a lot....especially your attitude. One question: Why would you "INSULT" a fellow officer?"

What statement explains a lot? Me explaining my point and actually offering real logical explanations for why I have that point or opinion? Ohhh you're being sarcastic. I get it. You don't like cops. And because I was one I have a bad attitude right? It couldn't be that I just disagree with you and you don't like that. Or that I make a sensible argument based on experience and facts and you have offered nothing to the discussion in terms of an opinion or actually anything besides simply commenting on what other people have posted. That and telling me my life must suck on a different article and now you have a problem with my attitude. Do you actually ever have anything to say yourself ?or just read what others say and tell them how they are wrong? I'm glad out of my entire post all actually based on the article and discussion at hand all you got was that I was a cop and you don't like cops. That's fine, you are certainly welcome to your opinion. A good cop doesn't do his job to win popularity contests. And to answer your question about "insulting a fellow officer " I'm not a cop anymore. And comparing the police chief of Perry Kansas to where I worked and what I did is like comparing the Green Bay Packers to my sons Pop Warner team. Now I have a question for you? I have served this country and the community I have lived in, in some capacity since I was 17 years old. I'm now 35. What have you done? I trust since you felt the need to comment so positively on my service you have done better. Please fill me in.

Common sense, personal responsibility and concern for others is a thing of the past.

These days, everyone is, to themselves, more important than anyone else.

"Progress" has turned us into impersonal gadget junkies, who think we need to stay connected at all moments...even though it's for nothing important.

Mass media has conditioned us to be callous.

Progressive liberals (and their little liberal incubators...aka...public schools and "Institutes of Higher Learning") have conditioned us to always blame someone else for our own failings, our laziness, or the results of our actions or inaction.

Anyone who has one fiber of their being capable of empathy for others, and one spark of personal responsibility...would put the damned phone down and drive.

Ain't gonna happen. Too many self-important jerks out there, wandering around thinking they can handle things better than everyone else.

Look up 8-15,111. Text messaging, prohibited; exceptions. This can be found on the Kansas State Legislature website.

(c) The provisions of subsection (b) shall not apply to:

(1) A law enforcement officer or emergency service personnel acting within the course and scope of the law enforcement officer's or emergency service personnel's employment;

LEO can use their laptops and phones IF for work purposes. So they are not above the law, they are within it. Nothing says as of now you can't talk on your cell phone, it's only against the law to read, send text.

I really doubt that all the times I see officers on their cell phones, it is for work related purposes. Second, if an officer can type on a laptop that is not even in front of them while they drive and it is not distracting or a menace, then texting while driving is not a menace. But we both know that both examples are menaces.

How long before a police officer hurts someone while performing a distracting action? Oh, they are police, we'll brush it off, just like that highway patrol officer who slammed into the back of another vehicle on I-70 because he was tailgating, but he did not get a ticket at the scene and after a month, was not giving any ticket.

I already provided you with the reason officers have computers in the car. And if they talk on a phone in the car it's perfectly legal just like when you do it. Wether in your opinion it's business related or not could not matter less if it tried. Let's just cut the charade here and say what you really mean. You don't like cops, cops don't do anything right in your eyes. You will take any and all available opportunity to point out something you think a cop does wrong. I'm thinking an arrest or something maybe as minor as a speeding ticket in Zoraks past, or perhaps recently that you still haven't gotten over. So now it's your mission to look and see what cops are doing in their cars. You truly could not care in the least about public safety or whatever else your trying to sell as your gripe here. You see what you think is an opportunity to b&11 bust cops and that's it. That's all it is. My suggestion if your truly concerned about everyone's driving habits why don't you ask a cop for the laundry list of things he's seen an idiot citizen do to cause a wreck. Get comfy, it's gonna be a while. Secondly stop looking around trying to see in other people's cars and just drive yours.

Zorak, I apologize if I led you to believe that I thought the only time LEO are on their phones was for work purposes. I'm not so ignorant to believe this to be true. I was simply stating the facts of the law as it is written to reflect that in "official duty" circumstances it is not against the law to use the laptops/phones while operating their vehicles for LEO.

Regardless of whether or not it is a menace, I was simply providing a source for a fact. Everyone has an opinion, I was just offering a solid reference so people knew the fact of the law as it is written right now.

If you have a problem with LEO, good for you. We all have the right to complain, so do it constructively and do it to someone who can make a difference. I'm sure there are people who have the power to do something who will listen to your complaint. Everyone needs to be held responsible for their own actions, not just one particular group.

1)The fact that you are a bitter ex LEO explains your attitude. Didn't say whether that attitude was good or bad 2) I DON'T dislike cops!! Ramon has been a friend for 40 Years. 3)I have been an educator and served my community for 35 Years. 4)So I guess you were a LEO in NY, LA, Chicago, Houston,.....a large Metropolis, right? I thought the LEO community was a large Brotherhood. That's not true?

Hmmm what's that mean ? Surely you aren't a teacher with the way you speak and conduct yourself. You having any input on children is truly concerning. Please tell me how I am "bitter". Because I speak the truth on my experiences ? Because I disagreed with you and you couldn't handle that? It's terrific that you have been friends with the Perry police chief for 40 years. He must not be bitter and have a bad attitude like I do. I worked for the city of Memphis police department for 12 years accept the 10 months I was in Iraq. I'm not a cop anymore because I moved to this area for my wife's career and I lost the passion for it that made me extremely good at it. It was time for a change. I now do something extremely stress free and wonderful. You know when I'm not being a bitter ex cop. I answered your questions even though I didn't need too. Now how come you feel the need to comment on every post I make but don't ever have any original thoughts or opinions of your own? Please remember you started this, and if you want to debate every single thing I post that's perfectly fine with me.

I couldn't be a teacher because I don't agree with you? Maybe I shouldn't have said bitter. you are just like a lot of ex LEO'S that I know of. You know EVERYTHING! You respond to everyone who disagree with the same vitriolic tone that you've used with me. I'm not wasting anymore of my time arguing with you. Trying to talk to you is like trying to nail JELL-O to a tree. You have a wonderful evening. May the Lord Bless!!

I said its surprising that a teacher would conduct themselves the way you do. Maybe that explains the current state of our public school system and the products our universities turn out. Oh well, you know what they say ! Those that can't do --- teach.

If law enforcement suspects illegal texting and data usage while driving... all that is required is to ask for the actor's phone, look at the text or data time stamp. This proof will confirm if the suspect is using their phone illegally. Then, law enforcement can react appropriately. Hopefully, this won't turn into Phone texting racial profiling.....Click it or Ticket it.

Also, for repeat offenders....Your license should be suspended for an appropriate time period. A definite cure for a very bad habit. Pull over... if that text is so important...to keep others safe. It Really can Wait.....Better to be Judged by twelve, then carried by six!

All new automobiles, should be required to have a hands free phone device, that will lock up your phone while in motion. This way, no one has their phone in their hand and reduces your chance of being pulled over, and officers guessing what is up.

If car manufactor's can unlock your car, they can sure lock up your phone. When the car stops, your phone is then released. This would eliminate any text/data questions from your local police, regarding the legality of using your phone, for it would be hands free. Your local police force could devote their time more wisely, looking for the real bad guys; Instead of becoming phone police..... to Reach Out and Touch Someone!! Click it....Or Ticket!