I don't expect any of the folks wearing rose colored glasses to believe me, but....

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Re: I don't expect any of the folks wearing rose colored glasses to believe me, but....

Not at all, I will be delighted if he leads the Colts to a Super Bowl win and breaks all of Peyton's team records..... I just don't happen to think that is going to happen and we would have been better served to trade that pick for a mountain of draft picks and fix the whole team. There are good QBs later in the draft and the odds say that one or two of them will actually be better than Luck. Look at Brady, Joe Montana, John Unitas and Drew Brees for examples..........

Re: I don't expect any of the folks wearing rose colored glasses to believe me, but....

Not at all, I will be delighted if he leads the Colts to a Super Bowl win and breaks all of Peyton's team records

Well, if you're expectation is he has to win a SB and break all of Peyton's records or he's a qualified "bust", then I gotta strongly disagree with you.

..... I just don't happen to think that is going to happen and we would have been better served to trade that pick for a mountain of draft picks and fix the whole team. There are good QBs later in the draft and the odds say that one or two of them will actually be better than Luck. Look at Brady, Joe Montana, John Unitas and Drew Brees for examples..........

You have every right to think that, but it tells me you haven't done much actual research on Luck.

I'd rather have this discussion with someone who actually knows what he's talking about in regards to the subject matter at hand, rather than just generalizing from recent events (of which, weren't common occurrences).

Go do some reading on Luck, watch his footage. Learn the contexts. You'll find that the stuff he was doing on the football field were way ahead of anyone else in college football, including RG3. By a mile. The stuff he did goes beyond anyone I've ever seen at the college level.

Peyton threw 28 interceptions his rookie season and went 3-13 with a similar supporting cast (and possibly even better). So I don't wanna hear you yelling "BUST" from the mountaintops when Luck's rookie season looks similar.

Last edited by Kid Minneapolis; 04-26-2012 at 06:11 PM.

There are two types of quarterbacks in the league: Those whom over time, the league figures out ... and those who figure out the league.

Re: I don't expect any of the folks wearing rose colored glasses to believe me, but....

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Re: I don't expect any of the folks wearing rose colored glasses to believe me, but....

I think we all forget that olblu is an all-american armchair GM. Colts weren't smart enough to do it the olblu way so now olblu is singing "It's the end of the world as we know it"

No one knows how long it will take the Colts to climb back out of their current situation. This year is a pretty safe bet of being under .500 but after that anything is possible with free agency and multiple drafts. No one here is interested in your "sky is falling" crap. We understand where you have put your chips and in the slim chance you are right and Colts still stink after 5 years, then feel free to dance around saying "nanananana in your face". Until then, how about toning down the over-pessimistic predictions of the future?

Re: I don't expect any of the folks wearing rose colored glasses to believe me, but....

I am not a troll just because you do not agree with me. I have supplied reasons for my views. I think anyone who calls a person a troll or just about any other name should be banned from this site.....

When you call people names it means you cannot come with a logic to refute their arguments... I don't call people names or at least I sure try not to do that....

Re: I don't expect any of the folks wearing rose colored glasses to believe me, but....

Well, if you're expectation is he has to win a SB and break all of Peyton's records or he's a qualified "bust", then I gotta strongly disagree with you.

You have every right to think that, but it tells me you haven't done much actual research on Luck.

I'd rather have this discussion with someone who actually knows what he's talking about in regards to the subject matter at hand, rather than just generalizing from recent events (of which, weren't common occurrences).

Go do some reading on Luck, watch his footage. Learn the contexts. You'll find that the stuff he was doing on the football field were way ahead of anyone else in college football, including RG3. By a mile. The stuff he did goes beyond anyone I've ever seen at the college level.

Peyton threw 28 interceptions his rookie season and went 3-13 with a similar supporting cast (and possibly even better). So I don't wanna hear you yelling "BUST" from the mountaintops when Luck's rookie season looks similar.

Hmmmm. Didn't RG3 throw for more yards and more touchdowns than Luck last year? I have watched Luck and when I saw him I was not impressed. He doesn't have a long ball and really doesn't even try to make that pass. Corners will not have to watch for him to go deep because he can't with any accuracy. I started this thread quoting what an expert said about Luck and the Colts. I think he had it about right. The team Peyton came to was much better than this team will be. Bill Polian has also said that. If you have a problem with what they say, take it up with them. I just happen to agree with them and I do not believe that Luck is the QB of a decade. There are more than a few people in the know who do not believe he will even be a good NFL QB much less a great one. We will have to see and endure many years of hopeless football until we find that out. I don't think that will be much fun and I think a lot of people will jump the ship. I point out again that the hated Patsies never seem to have this total breakdown and starting over. They just seem to reload and keep on winning..... That is a vast difference in management.... Anyone want to bet that the Pats will trade those two first round picks for a bunch of lower round picks and picks for next year? They have rarely kept their first round draft choices. I will admit they have been low first round but they got a lot of bang out of those lower rounds.......

Re: I don't expect any of the folks wearing rose colored glasses to believe me, but....

We know your first point both the Colts and Luck will suck for a long time. You've said that time and again so what are you saying that's new other than both will suck for a long time.
What does this thread say that you haven't said before in other threads?
For all the pundits that say Luck doesn't have pro QB credentials there is almost unanimous consensus that he is the top choice. Some obviously think he has talent so why just quote the small minority that don't like him/

Re: I don't expect any of the folks wearing rose colored glasses to believe me, but....

Hmmmm. Didn't RG3 throw for more yards and more touchdowns than Luck last year? I have watched Luck and when I saw him I was not impressed. He doesn't have a long ball and really doesn't even try to make that pass. Corners will not have to watch for him to go deep because he can't with any accuracy. I started this thread quoting what an expert said about Luck and the Colts. I think he had it about right. The team Peyton came to was much better than this team will be. Bill Polian has also said that. If you have a problem with what they say, take it up with them. I just happen to agree with them and I do not believe that Luck is the QB of a decade. There are more than a few people in the know who do not believe he will even be a good NFL QB much less a great one. We will have to see and endure many years of hopeless football until we find that out. I don't think that will be much fun and I think a lot of people will jump the ship. I point out again that the hated Patsies never seem to have this total breakdown and starting over. They just seem to reload and keep on winning..... That is a vast difference in management.... Anyone want to bet that the Pats will trade those two first round picks for a bunch of lower round picks and picks for next year? They have rarely kept their first round draft choices. I will admit they have been low first round but they got a lot of bang out of those lower rounds.......

Huh? Luck didn't have recievers to go long thats why he didn't look deep a lot.

Having a great deep ball means absolutely nothing in the NFL. Jeff George had a big arm that could go deep and the same goes for Rex Grossman.

What makes a great QB is not a deep ball its the ability to throw accurate and with velocity to beat the CB. Luck has that plain and simple.

Luck early on will be like Tom Brady in the early 2000's. The colts simply don't have the guys to go deep but if you put a Randy Moss or even a fast small WR on the team he will hit him in stride.

Re: I don't expect any of the folks wearing rose colored glasses to believe me, but....

Hmmmm. Didn't RG3 throw for more yards and more touchdowns than Luck last year? I have watched Luck and when I saw him I was not impressed. He doesn't have a long ball and really doesn't even try to make that pass. Corners will not have to watch for him to go deep because he can't with any accuracy. I started this thread quoting what an expert said about Luck and the Colts. I think he had it about right. The team Peyton came to was much better than this team will be. Bill Polian has also said that. If you have a problem with what they say, take it up with them. I just happen to agree with them and I do not believe that Luck is the QB of a decade. There are more than a few people in the know who do not believe he will even be a good NFL QB much less a great one. We will have to see and endure many years of hopeless football until we find that out. I don't think that will be much fun and I think a lot of people will jump the ship. I point out again that the hated Patsies never seem to have this total breakdown and starting over. They just seem to reload and keep on winning..... That is a vast difference in management.... Anyone want to bet that the Pats will trade those two first round picks for a bunch of lower round picks and picks for next year? They have rarely kept their first round draft choices. I will admit they have been low first round but they got a lot of bang out of those lower rounds.......

See, this shows your ignorance of the college game, and I'm not mad at you for that, just saying that you need to do your homework, because it's clear that you haven't. You're generalizing by pointing to uncommon examples of late-round QBs becoming great. You're going completely by the long ball and stats. You *have* to understand the context. You need to read up on what Luck and RG3 were *actually* doing.

You need to know the difference between pro-style (which emphasizes offensive balance and is more west-coast style, short dink-and-dunk passes that keep the chains moving) vs. a "spread" offense which is pass-happy, vertical, send out all your receivers and throw it far. Stanford usually ran the ball more than they passed it. QBs in a spread offense will have way more stats than one in a pro-style --- and Luck still nearly matched RG3.

You need to realize that Baylor had a lot more offensive talent around RG3 than Luck did at Stanford, especially at receiver.

You need to realize that RG3 was running plays called in from the sideline by his coaches, whereas Luck was running a pro-style offense, and at times was calling his own plays at the line of scrimmage, with great success. He was basically doing what Manning does *now*. In college. It's unheard of. RG3 isn't anywhere close to doing that. That is a HUGE and difficult skill to acquire -- Luck has already done it, I have doubts that RG3 will be doing that anytime soon.

Luck's arm isn't any weaker than RG3's --- he just played in an offense that rarely went "deep". Luck is capable of uncorking the ball *farther* than RG3, with tremendous accuracy. Luck throws the ball overall a lot better than RG3, with proper release, placement, accuracy, adjustments. His throwing arsenal is the most extensive I've seen. The misconception is that RG3 has a better deep ball --- I would argue that Luck, after watching both, is ahead of RG3 in almost *every* type of throw. RG3 has an almost "sidewinder" throwing motion.

Go watch Luck bowl over a defensive back on a fumble return... go watch Luck make a 1-handed "Marvin Harrison-esque" out-of-bounds catch.... go watch Luck uncork a 50-yard bomb from his *knees* and threading the needle between 2 deep covers.... go watch Luck make a 60-yard run and bowl over a defensive back like a half-back... he's bigger and faster than Tim Tebow.

You won't see RG3 doing this. Luck is just a born-and-bred football player.

Both of their pro days pretty much tell the story of these two:

- RG3 ran his indoors in perfect elements; he had his "posse" nearby, was more about "looking awesome" and blared his rap music over the loud speakers.

- Luck showed up in a t-shirt and sweat shorts; executed his pro-day outdoors --- *against* the wind, and actually ran plays that put his teammates on display rather than himself.

That's a football player. He's got the perfect temperament, he's the most humble guy in the world, he has a better skillset than RG3 on almost every front.

Luck doesn't party, is in bed every night by 11, watches as much tape as Peyton, doesn't own a car, shares a Honda Civic with his sisters, hates to talk about himself, but loves to talk about his teammates. His favorite hobby is reading. Off the football field, he's described as a goober and somewhat geeky. This is not a man full of himself, despite the fact he's the best QB to come along, imo, since Elway (and yes, I believe he's a better prospect than Manning coming out of college).

That's the guy I want on my team.

---
RG3 is an impressive prospect, but he's not on the same level, once you dig into the stories. He's the "prettier" pick... but football isn't pretty. Luck is a born football player, shared the womb with a football. RG3 is more like.... an world-class olympic athlete who happens to be pretty damn good at football. I'm not saying RG3 won't be a very good player and won't have some "wow" moments... but Luck is the best player.

Last edited by Kid Minneapolis; 04-26-2012 at 08:01 PM.

There are two types of quarterbacks in the league: Those whom over time, the league figures out ... and those who figure out the league.

Re: I don't expect any of the folks wearing rose colored glasses to believe me, but....

Wayne couldn't get a contract with another team. That Indy team in 1998 had Marvin Harrison and Marshall Falk. This team isn't close. The defensive end talent we have is negated by the fact we are going to play a 3-4 and we do not have a nose tackle.........

Wayne had a larger contract offer from the Patriots and turned it down to stay with the Colts.

The Colts do have a nose tackle and the draft is barely underway.

How many times do I have to call out your BLATANT lies and moronic assertions before it starts to sink in that you have no ****ing clue what you are talking about?

Re: I don't expect any of the folks wearing rose colored glasses to believe me, but....

That is not true and I'll be the first to say I was wrong. When he falls on his butt or gets injured and out for the season will you admit that he is a bust?

No, considering Peyton Manning threw more picks than touchdowns in his rookie season. He was brilliant in his second and third years, but also played very poorly (by his standards, at least) in his fourth season (the miserable 6-10 "PLAYOFFS!?" year). It wasn't until 03 that he became *consistently* great. We also didn't win a playoff game until Peyton's 6th year here. That's a fairly long time when you have one of the greatest ever.

No one is going to argue with you that things will likely be rough next year. Where we differ is that most of us don't think the franchise is doomed for the next 5 years. 5 years is so far down the road that you cannot accurately predict what will happen. San Francisco basically got good overnight. If we are bad again this year then what happens? You get another high draft pick. That would be deja-vu to 1999 with us picking up Edge after our 3-13 1998 Manning rookie season. There are going to be so many opportunities for this team to build a solid roster. We have so much dead cap coming off of the books after this year and will thus likely be a big free agent player next year. Free agency was largely a foreign thing to the Polians, but I'm hoping the new regime treats it differently.

Everyone looks back on the Manning years with fondness for obvious reasons. But there were a lot of bumps along the road from 1998-2002. It wasn't until 03 that we were a consistent force in the league.

Re: I don't expect any of the folks wearing rose colored glasses to believe me, but....

No, but I will bet that RG3 is going to have a better season this coming year. Luck is four or five years away from having enough talent to compete. Washington is much better. I read an article the other day that said the odds were that either Luck or RG3 was going to be a bust. If one of them is a bust, I think it will be Luck.... RG3 is a MUCH better long passer, Luck is a little better at the short game..... Not my words, the words of experts who have watched them both.....

Besides, it will be five years before we will know if Luck is boom or bust. I may not live that long.....

But don't get your hopes up.....

Can we see quotes and sources that state that RG3 is a "MUCH better long passer?" From what I gathered, they are on par and RG3 typically throws to wide open receivers down field whereas Luck is very good at making tight windows even down field much like another former Colt. :P Everyone that is a realistic Colt's fan knows that this team is very young and very inexperienced. You should not expect anything above 4 wins. We do have a VERY soft schedule though, and I would not be surprised if we wind up with a few more wins. We certainly aren't going to the PLAYOFFS though...Lol. Andrew Luck will certainly struggle, but you are making him out to be the next Blaine Gabert. Sorry, I just don't see him being a Ryan Leaf and neither do the majority of NFL analysts. I call

Re: I don't expect any of the folks wearing rose colored glasses to believe me, but....

Hmmmm. Didn't RG3 throw for more yards and more touchdowns than Luck last year? I have watched Luck and when I saw him I was not impressed. He doesn't have a long ball and really doesn't even try to make that pass. Corners will not have to watch for him to go deep because he can't with any accuracy. I started this thread quoting what an expert said about Luck and the Colts. I think he had it about right. The team Peyton came to was much better than this team will be. Bill Polian has also said that. If you have a problem with what they say, take it up with them. I just happen to agree with them and I do not believe that Luck is the QB of a decade. There are more than a few people in the know who do not believe he will even be a good NFL QB much less a great one. We will have to see and endure many years of hopeless football until we find that out. I don't think that will be much fun and I think a lot of people will jump the ship. I point out again that the hated Patsies never seem to have this total breakdown and starting over. They just seem to reload and keep on winning..... That is a vast difference in management.... Anyone want to bet that the Pats will trade those two first round picks for a bunch of lower round picks and picks for next year? They have rarely kept their first round draft choices. I will admit they have been low first round but they got a lot of bang out of those lower rounds.......