The problem is really that Hunters still have a psychological perception that their damage should just "be". The reality is that we now have to take into account our position, thanks to expertise. If your not behind the boss, if your not expertise capped - these thing will now affect you.

Still can't be parried so position only matters for blocks which is the same as always. I don't think anyone that is complaining about damage is doing so without knowing they need expertise.

When i did play my hunter, I noticed murder of crows was pretty much useless. Lynx rush seemed the way to go with thrill of the hunt. Blinkstrike even was a better choice. I'll also throw my two cents behind glaive toss.

When i did play my hunter, I noticed murder of crows was pretty much useless. Lynx rush seemed the way to go with thrill of the hunt. Blinkstrike even was a better choice. I'll also throw my two cents behind glaive toss.

Hey bb gurl u so gud 2 me lololol

But yes, I do decent DPS now, but I was struggling for a long time. I expect to have to adjust yet again when good gear comes along. Can't wait! brb Sha of Anger giving me all the loot :> :> :>

Ehm... ofcause ur damage is shit, if you played mage or warrior, your damage would be shit aswell.
That class you play is allways aweful.
The Hunters i see, if going decent damage, they're pretty much balanced.

Let me start out by saying im not new to this game i have played a hunter for 7 years as my main

I noticed throughout the heroics i was running i was getting absolutely drilled by ret pallies , mages , warlocks , spriests and i couldn't work what was going on my spec is fine my rotations are fine and my gear isn't that bad i have got as close to hit/exp cap as possible and still not competitive

I am running SV spec atm

Also to note i know our aoe dps with serpent multishot is strong although im talking about our single target dps

Perhaps anyone could help me out give me some tips to what could be going wrong

Long story short : You're bad or doing something wrong. Not as an offense but I earlier saw today one that could compete with me. I topping the meters on single target bosses 75k ish DPS he was barely lower than me, 73-75k and sometimes even beating me in a few runs. Hunters are fine, you're just lost with them atm. Get your shape back.

Rmember a warrior has too move aswell, that's why we do some more damage on normal hits, while the hunter not always but often can sit and shoot. A pain in the ass aswell when the boss flies, all the melee dps run after him jumping on fire to DPS him while the ranged shots nah, you're pretty fine

Not gonna shoot you down but as i said i have played hunter for 7 years i also held some of the top 10 parses in previous raids so i know what im doing i read elitist jerks etc and theory crafting but still no solid answer why dps is low im happy for you to check out my armory and point me to any mistakes if you have the time

The other thing is the other hunter in my guild who i have played with for many years and would consider a very good player has also noticed dropped dps for it to happen to both of us at the same time is very unlikely

Depending on the fight I usually lead DPS as BM in many guild heroic dungeon runs, and I have yet to reforge to hit/expertise caps. The Hunter class seems to be really gear dependent and I think once we get into higher gear levels you will see us creep back up. Another issue is that on heavy movement or switching fights our DPS will drop, if we can just sit and rape the boss our DPS seems to trend to the higher side. Focus regen right now seems low in my opinion and AoE dps as BM is just horrible due to the low focus regen and cost of multi-shot. As a SV Hunter AoE dps is the opposite if you use Thrill of the Hunt. I don't think the sky is falling, but focus regen could use a little bit of a buff and bring back serpent spread for multi-shot would have been a good idea for AoE dps.

Not only now, Relic of Xuen is showing as BiS even through heroic versions of this tier + Terrace/Heart of Fear. Passive Agi + Agi proc has always been overpowered, I guess they didn't learn from DMC: Greatness.

---------- Post added 2012-10-03 at 12:00 AM ----------

After raiding for the better part of the night, I think I can say Hunters are okay. We're at least middle of the pack. The biggest obstacle to our DPS is the fact that we have zero cleave potential. We're either full single target (BM) or full AOE (Survival). We don't have anything that's worthwhile to use on 2-3 targets. I was getting CRUSHED by mages and rogues on Stone Guard because they were cleaving like crazy while I was only doing single target.

Depending on the fight I usually lead DPS as BM in many guild heroic dungeon runs, and I have yet to reforge to hit/expertise caps. The Hunter class seems to be really gear dependent and I think once we get into higher gear levels you will see us creep back up. Another issue is that on heavy movement or switching fights our DPS will drop, if we can just sit and rape the boss our DPS seems to trend to the higher side. Focus regen right now seems low in my opinion and AoE dps as BM is just horrible due to the low focus regen and cost of multi-shot. As a SV Hunter AoE dps is the opposite if you use Thrill of the Hunt. I don't think the sky is falling, but focus regen could use a little bit of a buff and bring back serpent spread for multi-shot would have been a good idea for AoE dps.

SV: Our focus regen is fine now with the buff to Serpent sting(3 focus every time it ticks, limited to 1 target though) and CS restores 14 instead of 6 Focus also I don't know what you are complaining about bringing back serpent spread, but we already have it >_>...

On the matter of BM, Use a Worm or Chimaera pet for AoE(preferably Worm, since using a Chimaera can be a pain sometimes due to it being frontal cone) since you have access to Exotic pets. You have Beast Cleave now, although it hits for crap imo, it's still something.

Not only now, Relic of Xuen is showing as BiS even through heroic versions of this tier + Terrace/Heart of Fear. Passive Agi + Agi proc has always been overpowered, I guess they didn't learn from DMC: Greatness.

---------- Post added 2012-10-03 at 12:00 AM ----------

After raiding for the better part of the night, I think I can say Hunters are okay. We're at least middle of the pack. The biggest obstacle to our DPS is the fact that we have zero cleave potential. We're either full single target (BM) or full AOE (Survival). We don't have anything that's worthwhile to use on 2-3 targets. I was getting CRUSHED by mages and rogues on Stone Guard because they were cleaving like crazy while I was only doing single target.

Except our cleave is better than it's ever been. You seem to mistake "cleave" for "aoe on 2 targets". We have plenty of cleave :7. Explosive trap, multishot every 14 secs for serpent sting on both targets (if you're running TOTH, use it when it procs for 20-focus multishots, stronger on 2 targets than arcane shot is on a single target for same focus cost), and glaive toss.
But really, we never were a cleave class.

I think people who're used to playing hunters are being put off because we now scale - whereas in the past we started high and improved less than most (if not all) classes with gear, now we are subject to the same scale mechanisms others are.

As a former spriest player who would see huge jumps in DPS with haste, I'm a bit more used to it.

With this new scaling, it means gear is more important, reforging is more important, caps are more important, upgrades are more important.

That's why I said 'cleave' and not 'AoE'. I am talking about the scenario in which you're tanking 2-3 mobs together, like Stone Guard. It's completely different from AoE, which is 4+ targets.

Speaking strictly for BM here, how is our cleave "better than it's ever been"? We have no cleave unless you count incidental Glaive Toss damage. Explosive Trap is a DPS loss on fewer than 3 targets, as is multishot. That's the extent of our multi-target arsenal, and none of it is worth using on 2-3 targets. That's my whole point.

It's a slightly different story for Survival with TotH, where it's worthwhile to maintain a 2nd/3rd sting with multishot, but you're still near the bottom of the pack on cleave fights. Again, cleave, not AoE.

That's why I said 'cleave' and not 'AoE'. I am talking about the scenario in which you're tanking 2-3 mobs together, like Stone Guard. It's completely different from AoE, which is 4+ targets.

Speaking strictly for BM here, how is our cleave "better than it's ever been"? We have no cleave unless you count incidental Glaive Toss damage. Explosive Trap is a DPS loss on fewer than 3 targets, as is multishot. That's the extent of our multi-target arsenal, and none of it is worth using on 2-3 targets. That's my whole point.

It's a slightly different story for Survival with TotH, where it's worthwhile to maintain a 2nd/3rd sting with multishot, but you're still near the bottom of the pack on cleave fights. Again, cleave, not AoE.

Most of the fights in MV are multi dot fights also, so Warlocks and SPriests will probably be the FotM for top guilds.

That's why I said 'cleave' and not 'AoE'. I am talking about the scenario in which you're tanking 2-3 mobs together, like Stone Guard. It's completely different from AoE, which is 4+ targets.

Speaking strictly for BM here, how is our cleave "better than it's ever been"? We have no cleave unless you count incidental Glaive Toss damage. Explosive Trap is a DPS loss on fewer than 3 targets, as is multishot. That's the extent of our multi-target arsenal, and none of it is worth using on 2-3 targets. That's my whole point.

It's a slightly different story for Survival with TotH, where it's worthwhile to maintain a 2nd/3rd sting with multishot, but you're still near the bottom of the pack on cleave fights. Again, cleave, not AoE.

The thing is, for some of the classes, their "aoe" is worth it to use on 2 targets. Thats not the case for hunters. And hunters have NEVER been a class that cleaves well - it's been singletarget and utility, now evolving to utility/aoe/singletarget.
If you gimp yourself by playing BM, then that is your choise. The difference between BM and Surv is less than 4% in a best case scenario - but for BM, that means you have to minimage your cooldowns, and pet, to the extreme - something a raid encounter won't usually allow you to. At the point where your pet has to change target to someone over 25 yards away, your dps will *drop*, and surv will become better.

Also, you may want to check your numbers about explosive trap. Assuming a 20% crit chance, an explosive shot ticks normal 8 times and crits 2 times. Mine ticks for 1.8K, crits for 3.6K. thats a total of 21.6K.
My Arcane shot hits for 24K, crits for 44K, so thats an average of 28K per Arcane Shot. Arcane shot, however, costs focus.
So on 2 targets, explosive trap will do 43.2K damage on average for no focus cost, and Arcane shot will do 28K damage for 20 focus. It's not worth it on single target, but on 2 targets? Fire away.

Not to mention, for surv, even without ToTH, multishot is worth it every 14 sec to keep serpent sting up. Can take it a step further and rotate your cobra shots on the targets (EG, cobra#1 on mob#1, cobra#2 on mob#2, repeat), like we did on valiona and theralion, but thats not nearly as neccessary now that Multi Shot applies full-duration serpent stings.
Regardless, never were a cleave class, probably won't be.