Welcome

Welcome to the POZ Community Forums, a round-the-clock discussion area for people with HIV/AIDS, their friends/family/caregivers, and
others concerned about HIV/AIDS. Click on the links below to browse our various forums; scroll down for a glance at the most recent posts; or join in the
conversation yourself by registering on the left side of this page.

Privacy Warning: Please realize that these forums are open to all, and are fully searchable via Google and other search engines. If you are HIV positive
and disclose this in our forums, then it is almost the same thing as telling the whole world (or at least the World Wide Web). If this concerns you, then do not use a
username or avatar that are self-identifying in any way. We do not allow the deletion of anything you post in these forums, so think before you post.

The information shared in these forums, by moderators and members, is designed to complement, not replace, the relationship between an individual and his/her own
physician.

All members of these forums are, by default, not considered to be licensed medical providers. If otherwise, users must clearly define themselves as such.

Forums members must behave at all times with respect and honesty. Posting guidelines, including time-out and banning policies, have been established by the moderators
of these forums. Click here for “Am I Infected?” posting guidelines. Click here for posting guidelines pertaining to all other POZ community forums.

We ask all forums members to provide references for health/medical/scientific information they provide, when it is not a personal experience being discussed. Please
provide hyperlinks with full URLs or full citations of published works not available via the Internet. Additionally, all forums members must post information which are
true and correct to their knowledge.

Being the admirer and lover that I am of this wonderful continent of ours (beautiful, truly free, generous and democratic Europe), I just had to reply to Matty and Benjamin regarding their empty, pococurante comments on Alex's thread ""Ungraceful death"", which dealt with the situation of AIDS in Serbia.

First off, some quotes:Benjamin wrote...""But it's easier to tut-tut problems across the ocean than fix them in your own backyard.""

Matty.le.damné wrote:...""It always interests me that wherever I go, I can find citizens of indolent and wealthy E.U. nation-states racing to condemn the Great Satan for all the worlds ills.However, when somebody raises the dire plight of say, oh I don't know, people with AIDS in Serbia, it's entirely different.""

Well, there would be several long and boring links for you two to read had I decided to post them on here. I chose not to. However, I will supply some information to help understand the tricky and thorny situation between the E.U. and Serbia/Montenegro.The Thessaloniki Agenda is one of the E.U.'s documents for the negotiations between Serbia and The Union.

And just for your information, before a country accedes to the E.U. it gets an enormous amount of help/subsidies of any kind. The road is really paved and well-prepared before that country acquires full membership. It is done through several programmes. First, there is the ""Financing of Regional and Rural Development and Human Ressources."" These are the basic steps. Next, there is the so-called Community Structural Fund which plays a determining role at the final stages of these talkings.

Serbia/Montenegro is already getting a lot of funds from Brussels be it in the fight against AIDS or other economic areas. The problem, of course, is how that money is being distributed to the population by the Serbian Government... I will not comment on that.The Western Balkan countries get a lot of money from The Union, though, from the famous Cards Programme (Financial Assistance) and The European Investment Bank(EIB). In fact, just for the past year these two programmes have given away more than 7billion Euros to these countries...

Some (there are several) of the institutions in Serbia/Montenegro receiving European subsidies today are:

And if you guys really care to read through this long article, it is kind of a résumé of the Thessaloniki Agenda for The Balkan Countries4-Consolidating stability and achieving prosperity in the Western Balkanshttp://europa.eu/scadplus/leg/en/lvb/r12650.htm

There you have it! I just hope it is not too boring to read through all this. As for Matty's remarks about the Europeans' passion for criticizing the ""Great Satan"", it is my opinion that the Bush Administration played a more than predominant role on this. Besides, it shouldn't be a surprise to anyone the fact that Israel, with the consent and help of the U.S., bombs, destroys and leaves. The Europeans come behind them and rebuild! And pay! The Europeans pay the salaries of the unemployed Palestinians --- not the filthy rich Arab countries, nor the Americans who also bomb, destroy and sometimes do not rebuild...

Another factor that plays a strong part on this national sport that Europeans have about criticizing Americans is ""Religion!"" I'd say. And if one is not familiar with American costumes and ways of living, well, it is indeed something clumsy and fatiguing to absorb all this ""special relationship"" Americans hanker after have with their god. The first thing that strikes a person is that even in their money it is printed ""In God We Trust""! And there is nothing wrong about that, of course! However, where do you draw the line when discussing human rights, freedom and the like; and what the law/justice should be. Whom this law is supposed to protect and why the church should have no saying in these matters...! Is there a de facto divison in America between the Church and the State? Methinks no, there is not.

So, Serbia is getting a lot of money from the E.U. even though it is not yet a member of The Union. It would only suffice to take a look at all the Europeans Associations working in there in all imaginable fields to be assured of that. ""Médécins Sans Frontières"" for example, has been working in Belgrade in the fighting against AIDS for a long time now.

Well, thank you for singling me and Matty out as the ones who need an education and how Europe is better than the United States, etc.

The EU does good. The United States doesn't.

America is full of religious people, and our money has a motto on it... all 300 million people who live here are total money-hoarding boobs with no regard for their fellow humans. And Europe is this gilded Utopia filled with enlightened citizens who have nothing but the best thoughts about everyone ever.

I was tired of hearing this stuff when I was 18, and I'm really tired of it now.

If one teensy sarcastic comment bothers you that much, then you might wanna put me on ignore... because you're going to be spending a lot of time looking for a lot of links in your attempts to educate me as to the humanitarian machinations of supranational bureacracies.

Matty the Damned has expounded on the issue of the Franco-German Axis and America, sorry I mean the EU and the United States on a previous occasion. Maybe Val would like to print it out and read it over a cup of that brown grit in hot water that Europeans so loosely refer to as coffee.

Well, well, well, ain't teh Internets funny! I just wrote a little article to set some records straight and I get two replies: one, childish as I was inclined to expect; the other, well-thought out and, as usual, with that irrreplaceable Aussi sense of humour.Sorry, Benjamin, if setting the records straight pestered you as much as you thought your replies to the other thread, which I call ""throwing hot potatoes in the air"", harrassed me! They did not whatsoever. And for your information, I have never made use of the ""ignore"" buttom in these forums. Whenever I come across some reply and/or topic I don't appreciate teh content (or am not interested in), I behave just in the same manner when I am watching TV: I use the remote control and get to the next channel. And I don't make any fuss about it either...

Regarding Matty's reply, the answer is "no!" Europe should not be patted in the back or receive special praises for its actions in The Balkans. However, be fair and don't go around ""throwing hot potatoes"" in the air as well! The article about the Franco-German axis and America is, again, brilliant even though it could be elaborated on so that some very interesting details and spicy arguments would perhaps make you reflect on some points of it. And in the end, who knows, even change your point of view. However, I will not be the one to do that with you!

Anyway, it was never my intention ""to educate"" anyone about any subject at all. Actually I was hoping for some stimulating, engaging discussion on the subject. Just like Matty's reply. But, I guess I'll have to decline any further debate on the subject lest some other folks feel the way Benjamin did...

Val______P.S. Matty, Mexico and The Banana Republics of Central America are having an extremely hard-time in all fronts regarding the fight against AIDS. They are the U.S. closest neighbours and (forced) allies...! Just saying. How do you think a country --- and one of the wealthiest nonetheless --- that let's its own people die because of the lack of medicines should change that?

Anyway, it was never my intention ""to educate"" anyone about any subject at all. Actually I was hoping for some stimulating, engaging discussion on the subject. Just like Matty's reply. But, I guess I'll have to decline any further debate on the subject lest some other folks feel the way Benjamin did...

Oh bullshit Val.

Your intention was never to have a stimulating or engaging discussion. You fancied yourself as a some sort of forums warrior seeking to put Mean Old Matty in his place. What a shame you didn't realise that Matty was armed with the facts to put your snide euro-centric posturing out of action before you even started.

Europe: Americans are obsessed with religion.US: A fascist came in second place for the French presidency in 2002.Europe: The US is violent and gun-obsessed.US: Europeans ran roughshod all over the world.Europe: The US takes all of the world's oil.US: We gave you an economy after WWII.Europe: You're money mad.US: You have a 10% unemployment rate.Europe: The US had slaves.US: You sold them to us.Europe: You slaughtered your indigenous inhabitants.US: Governments in Europe still deny ethnic groups their right to self-determination.Europe: You denied African-Americans rights.US: You tortured Arabs as a matter of course during the Algerian War for Independence.Europe: You bomb the world.US: You've had fascist and communist governments which tortured and killed their own citizens within living memory.Europe: Your cuisine stinks.US: You stink.

This debate can go on and on and on and on and on and on and on... it has been for decades, and generally the only time it's brought up is when someone's trying to get people riled.

What's the point, pray tell?

Is it that boring in Germany? I lived there for two years, and I remember there being lots to do.

Guys,Time to put a stop to this! This is not the direction I intended for this thread, no matter what Matty states. However, some clarifications are needed.

Firstly, you gotta own what you say Matty! You sarcastically, ironically and (mostly) inaccurately affirmed something that I cared to point out, since, yes, I love the E.U. and I suppose there is nothing wrong about defending who or what I love, right? Next, your attempt to turn things around to your advantage (?) accusing me of striving to be "a forum warrior" (?), whatever that means to you, is just unethical. I'm at a loss here, since your attitude is not what I'd call a level-headed one...By the way, dear Matty, I'm glad you still keep your sense of humour 'cos most of the caustic style, the sharp tongue that I so much admired --- hey, I'm French and no hypocrite --- and the cutting remarks are gone in most of your posts! I dare hope you'll change...These forums have accomplished something that I dislike: ""They managed to muzzle Matty.le.Damné!""

Secondly, you're absolutely right Benjamin. There is no point whatsoever in continuing the discussion! And if I thought of your first reply as "childish", I meant it in a sulky, out of humour, moody way.As for the list you sent me, I will dare to make a teensy, yet funny, remark about the first one only and just for the heck of it.

You said:Europe: Americans are obsessed with religion.US: A fascist came in second place for the French presidency in 2002.

My reply:And so what if the fascist of 2002 had won the presidential election? You have a Nazist/Fascist president/government in power right now! And he's been elected not just once... Thank God/Godess for N. Pelosi!

By the way, Germany is a fabulous country (as I suppose you can attest) and I have a lovely time every time I go there. I'm back in the "true country of Les Droits de l'Homme, now, though!" You know, the one who..."tortured Arabs as a matter of course during the Algerian War for Independence", just like the Americans have done in the past with their own kind (Southerners) and the Brits; in Irak, though, they have been behaving themselves in an exemplary way, n'est-ce pas?

Val______P.S. And yes, I am more than flattered to have Joemutt on "my team?" Jesus, Matty, I need a drink...you, schoolboy!Funny how the "clique" theme keeps coming back in these threads. It might have something to do with Americans in general and the fear of being singled out. I say single me out anytime you want and I'll stand up for my convictions and beliefs. You see, I didn't mention the Europeans who participated in the ""Ungraceful death"" thread, but I do think they were to the point and brave...!

And so what if the fascist of 2002 had won the presidential election? You have a Nazist/Fascist president/government in power right now! And he's been elected not just once... Thank God/Godess for N. Pelosi!

Val, Matty the Damned is typing this slowly as he knows you can't read all that fast. The point that I and Benj are making is a simple one. Even you should be able to grasp it, doll.

It's not that America is without fault, it's just that Europeans such as you are in no position to criticise. You have nante credibility on this issue my love. Everytime you offer what you think is some trenchant insight about the state of American government or politics (such as the one I've quoted above), the rest of the world merely rolls its collective eyes. More mindless banter from Eurotrash.

You thank the "goddess" for Nancy Pelosi? Why not try thanking the Americans in this forum (such as Benj) who voted for her and the other Democrats in the US Congress at the recent mid-term elections? They're the ones who made the Botox Bolshevik House Speaker. Not your vaunted "goddess".

And while you're about it why not try paying attention to the score of threads here started by American members decrying the predations of conservatives and right wingers in their country?

Have you checked out the universal health care thread that was posted in Living With? It's easy for people like you and I to sit back make shrewish observations about the tragedy of 45 million Americans having no health coverage at all whilst we enjoy generous socialised health care systems.

Did you fail to notice the TWO threads in Off Topic on the latest outrage by the obnoxious Ann Coulter? Both threads were started by American members. Jody (from New York) and Hal (from Tennessee). No I suppose you were too busy posting links to ghastly YouTube clips.

Do you visit the AIDS Activism forum? If you did you'd notice that American members are always talking about the activities they undertake everyday in their communities. Whether it's organising the reuse of unwanted medications, participating in AIDS walks or giving speeches in schools and community groups, they're engaged and committed. They're not the gun-toting, race baiting bigots you would like to represent them as.

Whilst you chatter on like the resident parrot in the pet shop , these people are actually doing something. You might like to try that one day. You might find your views on these matters are taken a whole lot more seriously when you do.

Since you're glad to have the increasingly cryptic Joemutt on your team, maybe you could take the time to explain to the rest of us what the fuck he's talking about.

I said above that this should be stopped and that's it. I will not post any reply here anymore besides this one. However, since Matty.le.Damné seems to be coming back to his more usual ways of being and can apparently handle the truth, I will blantly tell him to shove all his advices and wrong opinions right there..."where the sun never shines!"When I remind him of the old days and cutting remarks, I did not have in mind any authoritative, arrogant, vanglorious and bird-brained replies. You see, I could have pointed out several things about what's being said in the ""Ungraceful death"" thread by these two fellows, but refrained from 'cos my intention was not, and I repeat, was not for this thread to go in this direction.But, since these two guys have just thrown hot potatoes in the air and stubbornly keep on doing it --- see their replies to Matt Mee and the brilliant article (although completely unrelated to the topic we were discussing) that Matty posted about the Franco-German view of Europe and America --- well, I decided to set the records straight. That's all there is to it.

And here again we have our ole good Matty drifting away from the topic we're discussing and, once more, shooting arrows just like Cupidon in any sense and making a true salad of this thread. Now, do the Americans need Matty to defend them as he did? Humm, this smells like teen spirit to me! Who attacked Americans? Me? What's the topic of this thread, anyway, Matty.le.Damné? You could finally make a true effort and enlighten me on this one...

Do I have problems with my reading? Do I read slow? Well, Matty, I do not and I do this perfectly well i.e. more than just "fluently" in more languages than you'll ever be able to in your several lives. In how many languages can you read, argument and be despicably preposterous? One? One and a half? I tell you, sweetheart, you gotta a long way to go, baby!

I mentioned this before and will do it once again: "I will never tell anyone what they should or should not do in these forums and I expect the same treatment." PERIOD

Do I post "ghastly" You Tube clips in this forum? Yes, I do. And, if you're so bothered by them, the solution is quite radical and simple: "Skip it!"" Like they say, "if you can't stand the heat, get the hell out of the kitchen!" I happen to like what I post in these forums, DOLL!

As for the AIDS Activism forums I do read and post in there, dear Matty, and don't owe you a fucking explanation whatsoever about that. ""Gun-toting, race baiting bigots"" are words used by you when referring to Americans --- not me.

And I am no resident parrot in no fucking pet shop either, got it? ""You"" are being the ridiculous parrot with all these presumptuous, hare-brained, hazy allegations!

Lastly, yes I am proud of having Joemutt on my ""team"" --- your preferred term. You see, he's European! Therefore, I can't help but like him 'cos deep down we more or less resemble each other i.e. we're smart folks and shouldn't be hated just because of that!Moreover, I can assure you that Joemutt may not express himself well all the time in all the languages he speaks, but he can be very precise and to the point when he speaks his native language. That, by the way, is not really your case with your Aussie English, since you've just proved it to me in two distinct threads! But, then again, I may be mistaken. I do recognise the fallacies of the written word.

I still remain your admirer and supporter as long as all unreasonableness, pigheaded and wooden-headed remarks and foolishness are absent from your posts.

Matty -- I'm sorry it's come to this, but this is your last warning before a possible permanent banning from the forums (you've used up your Time Outs).

I, for one, frequently enjoy your contributions to these forums, but they are often outweighed by your constant stream of snarky put-downs. We are well aware that you carefully avoid the more obvious forms of schoolyard namecalling, but instead use your weapon of choice -- "humorous" put-downs -- most of which are meant to say to other forums members "I am smart, and you are stupid."

Matty, you are a verbal bully. In my mind, comments like "whilst you chatter on like the resident parrot in the pet shop" only make you a smarter-sounding version of the bully that calls someone "stupid faggot."

I'm not sure it's possible for a bully to change his stripes. The way you put down people is obviously built into your DNA. But if you want to stay in these forums, you're going to have to try to change the way you argue with other members.

Peter it is your site and you have the luxury of dealing with people as you see fit. However, I find it disturbing to use the word "faggot" as a comparison...the biggest put-down someone could come up with on a predominately gay website. Using assumed genetic markers to ban someone also gives me pause.

Wow. Seriously. Wow. Another member singled out Matty and Benji, who responded, and it appears that the ones initially attacked are villified.

Wow. I certainly hope that the influx of older members is not a temporary one. But so long as errant nationalism and bullying, of ever-so-thinly disguised denialism and personal attacks are rewarded, I submit that none of us with actual souls will be here for long.

Could matty havbe laid off the rhetoric? Sure. But surely even the most biased mods can see how, in this thread, who came out swinging.

Personally, I think the likes of Matty and Benji and yeah, even Val add to the flavor of these forums. Otherwise, well, eventually it will simply be a place wherethe newly diagnosed rehash their stories of denial, and the very sick remain silent, AIDS, apparently, is a character flaw these days.

I'm often mistaken. I hope this is not one of theose times.

Logged

"Many people, especially in the gay community, turn to oral sex as a safer alternative in the age of AIDS. And with HIV rates rising, people need to remember that oral sex is safer sex. It's a reasonable alternative."

"Many people, especially in the gay community, turn to oral sex as a safer alternative in the age of AIDS. And with HIV rates rising, people need to remember that oral sex is safer sex. It's a reasonable alternative."

Wow. Seriously. Wow. Another member singled out Matty and Benji, who responded, and it appears that the ones initially attacked are villified.

Wow. I certainly hope that the influx of older members is not a temporary one. But so long as errant nationalism and bullying, of ever-so-thinly disguised denialism and personal attacks are rewarded, I submit that none of us with actual souls will be here for long.

Could matty havbe laid off the rhetoric? Sure. But surely even the most biased mods can see how, in this thread, who came out swinging.

Personally, I think the likes of Matty and Benji and yeah, even Val add to the flavor of these forums. Otherwise, well, eventually it will simply be a place wherethe newly diagnosed rehash their stories of denial, and the very sick remain silent, AIDS, apparently, is a character flaw these days.

I'm often mistaken. I hope this is not one of theose times.

Thank you Jonathan and Doxie for encapsulating how I feel.

I find it more than ironic that the same confrontational approach used by ACT UP and Queer Nation are discouraged at a message board built to support those living with HIV/AIDS. If the conversation sometimes gets heated, isn't it only natural, given the deep issues of mortality that we all face?

If HIV/AIDS isn't about life and death issues, I'm not sure what qualifies.

This entire thread was initated to throw flames.I wouldn't deny Val the "right" to post it, but certainly don't deny Matty or Benj the right to respond. Banning Matty for being Matty just seems absurd. Silencing him does nothing to further the dialog. And, yes, I think that HIV/AIDS is worth the occasional flame-out as much as Henri IV felt Paris was worth a Mass.

Brent(Who thinks we can all be too sensitive at times)

Logged

Blessed with brains, talent and gorgeous tits.

The revolutionary smart set reads The Spin Cycle at least once every day.

I thought it was discussed when the new T.O. procedures were announced that a better job of nondiscrimination would be adhered to. That lasted a whole two months. Why does one get singled out and the one that called them out and flame baited, didn't? This is plain wrong.

And got drawn into an arguement along the lines of "America vs Europe" when it came to healthcare, and then other things. I was then reminded by another poster that the thread was infact started by SASA39 for him to speak about the situation he found himself in at the time. I then stopped posting my wider political view, and commiserated with SASA39, who really is in a sucky situation.

In my opinion, Val didn't post this to "flame-bait" anybody. But this thread doesn't belong here: it's not talking about living with HIV. Although we all share our experiences of healthcare here, and that's an important part of HIV, this wider political arguement most definitely belongs in "Off Topic".

Regarding banning members like MtD for strong views, quite often expressed with a lot of sarcasm and negativity, I don't really see the point. When I started concentrating on SASA39s problem in the original thread MtD suddenly disappeared - look at his posts and I think he thrives on arguement. Wherever there's conflict, he's there, often instigating, always prolonging. I don't see much value in many of his posts, but I don't see the rationale for banning him.

I skipped through this and then went back to the beginning: 'I just had to reply to Matty and Benjamin regarding their empty, pococurante comments on Alex's thread ""Ungraceful death"", which dealt with the situation of AIDS in Serbia.' No one replies to someone, only to someone's post. When anyone finds a point objectionable, one objects to -debates- that point, not the poster. In fact, the original poster, him or herself, should be left out entirely, meaning left unnamed. And while this post may seem to be pointed at a person it is, in fact, not. It is pointed at threads such as this one with their content. Best, Win

Logged

Winthrop Smith has published three collections of poetry: Ghetto: From The First Five; The Weigh-In: Collected Poems; Skin Check: New York Poems. The last was published in December 2006. He has a work-in-progress underway titled Starting Positions.

Other than me, we're all adults here. I would hope we don't still cry everytime someone doesn't want to be our friend. I would also hope that we're mature enough to handle a discussion that is a little more involved than what our favorite colors are without getting upset if someone doesn't use nice words to us.

I too hope Matty doesn't get banned, our forums here thrive on differences of opinion and a bit of fun, sometimes sarcastic, usually very intelligent that goes on here much more often than not...I have grown to like Mattala and his colorful ways...I think we agreed back when that as people living with HIV, or a fear of it, or support of others we would have off-topic discussions (where this thread belongs) to keep things loose and enjoyable since life with HIV was serious enough and important enough to keep front and center but it wasn't all that we are. Politics are all around us and important enough to comment on as our lives are affected by them and we must participate.

In fact when Val first started posting I found him to be one who flame baited, he got off to a rough start here claiming some of his comments were lost in translation if you will...He was one of the few folks here I considered using the ignore feature on but as with everyone else I never did as I believe all opinions are important and what the hell - I can always read them and agree to disagree and maybe learn something in the process. He is a person I can live with after all.

But dear Val, no one is perfect and if one were to ask for instance, young Muslims in the suburbs of Paris or Turks in Germany for example how their lives compare to the folks who sip drinks and dine in the cafes of Europe we could probably get an earful...No our America is not perfect, many of us voted against Bush in the last 2 elections, we would love to have the middle eastern problems resolved yesterday, but it is also a country that in many cases opened its doors to our grandparents who might have been wiped out had they been forced to remain in Europe and that being what it is, we sometimes tend to take criticism from others with a bit of scorn and disdain, though you are welcome to comment of course, you see many of us admire freedom and democracy for all peoples.

Jody

Logged

"Wake up to find out that you are the eyes of the world". "Try to discover that you are the song that the morning brings."

Peter... as one of the people to whom Matty has pointed his "smarter than thou" rhetoric, I would respectfully ask that you not ban him. This is a site where adults with a serious illness discuss issues relevant to them. Sometimes, a bit of social stridency is expected when the topic is difficult, especially given the situation. If Val, Benj or Matty get out of hand, then I would suggest asking them to behave in private first. Please remember, that it is a natural human reaction to overcompensate ... and while Matty is indeed extremely caustic at times, it is quite clear that some very respectable forum members think very highly of him. "... Matty, who has a big heart."

To me, it is a shame that each time a controversy arises, some of the so-called old timers on this forum threaten to leave. This forum is as much for someone whose posting count is 1 as it is for someone with 4000. No one here is perfect.

I've been on a lot of boards and have yet to see a single one where the old timers don't hearken back to the glory days when it was better. Please. Let's remember why we are here. To support one another. Sometimes we won't like each other. That's natural. And, I, for one don't think it serves any point to ban someone until they get completely out of hand. I certainly am grown up enough not to take it particularly personally that someone who doesn't know me decides to attack me. Yes, personal attacks should stop, and the points should be debated for the points. But... seriously ... do you honestly expect a public forum about HIV to follow Parliamentary Procedure?

Logged

Floating through the void in the caress of two giant pink lobsters named Esmerelda and Keith.

Did you not read the title of this thread? Matty and Benj were called out in the title. For you to single out Matty for replying, however strongly, is wrong. You could tell this was baiting from the title of the thread.

Please don't ban Matty the damned. That would be like giving many of these forums a lobotomy. Benj and Matty have a right to defend themselves. I have been to Europe on many occasions and had to put up with the self righteous superiority complex so arrogantly thrown about there. And Jody is right, there are plenty of disenfranchised folk in Europe on whose backs the continent is carried .

My firtst time in Germany, in the village where I was staying, a turkish girl was abducted, put in a plastic bag, and scalding water was thrown on her. She was then dumped on the side of the road. It was horrifying. This was done by Neonazis. There is no Utopia anywhere, but many of us are working for a better world, regardless of where we come from.

Damn, the Queen takes ill and all hell breaks loose, wtf? I'll admit the topic with Matty and Benj's name totally caught my attention because I enjoy reading their posts. I love both their sarcasm and wit. The real topic was lost on me because I do not follow such things but the difference of opinions kept me reading.

I would think by now, this being a forum and all that people would not become heated by a difference of opinion. And since we are all adults here, I would think a little name calling could be ignored....sticks and stones people..Or maybe I'm a bit delirious due to fever. Oh well...

Peter~~

I have to agree with the others about banning Matty, it would be wrong considering he did not start this and was called out by the title alone. If someone has to be punished, it should be the one who started it. I'm quite sure Matty used up all his time outs a long time ago but in this instance, he be given a pass or whatever. I'll even offer up a few of mine if that makes a difference..The Queen only needs warnings from time to time. So, I gladly offer up mine....

Damn, the Queen takes ill and all hell breaks loose, wtf? I'll admit the topic with Matty and Benj's name totally caught my attention because I enjoy reading their posts. I love both their sarcasm and wit. The real topic was lost on me because I do not follow such things but the difference of opinions kept me reading.

I would think by now, this being a forum and all that people would not become heated by a difference of opinion. And since we are all adults here, I would think a little name calling could be ignored....sticks and stones people..Or maybe I'm a bit delirious due to fever. Oh well...

Peter~~

I have to agree with the others about banning Matty, it would be wrong considering he did not start this and was called out by the title alone. If someone has to be punished, it should be the one who started it. I'm quite sure Matty used up all his time outs a long time ago but in this instance, he be given a pass or whatever. I'll even offer up a few of mine if that makes a difference..The Queen only needs warnings from time to time. So, I gladly offer up mine....

Haha. Agreed. If there is warning trading going about I don't need any of mine. I'm a perfect angel.

The problem, of course, is how that money is being distributed to the population by the Serbian Government... I will not comment on that.

So if the EU or other entity gives the Serbian government money to fight HIV/AIDS it has no responsibility to insure the money is used for that purpose? Based on Al's experiences it sounds as if the amount provided is a drop in the bucket or the Serbian government is misappropriating the funds. You tout what has been done but qualify it with a de facto admission the Serbian government isn't helping its HIV-infected populace. What point has been proved?

And why the gratuitous smear against Israel? The USA has given millions and billions to far worse countries. I support Palestinian rights and do not approve of much of what Israel has done and does, but they're not the only country oppressing others. Are we displaying a little anti-Semitism?

Why single Benj out? I can almost understand Matty since he posted several of his inimitable (and a tad inimical) messages in Al's thread but Benj was one of several others who veered off-topic with singular posts. Who are you to be calling people out by name in the subject line of a post? I hate most of the youtube threads but wouldn't dream of and writing a diatribe aimed at you personally. I just skip the posts.

As a US American ashamed of my country for letting the most crooked President in history take 8 years to wreak havoc here and abroad, you won't get any "The USA is the best fucking country in the whole wide world" tripe from me. By the same token, though, very few European countries can claim to have spotless records when it comes to imperialism or blatant discrimination based on class, gender, ethnicity, etc. I believe many EU countries are more progressive now than the USA but they've been around longer and the skeletons in their closets are older but they're still there. Vichy France is not anything I'd be bragging about.

Boo

Logged

String up every aristocrat!Out with the priests and let them live on their fat!

There are two different topics I want to respond to here - so first, my own personal frustration that I can't really do anything to help alleviate the suffering of others around this planet of ours; yet grateful that others on here feel that they can, which ought to be encouraged. There is so much to be outraged about, and cared about, and so much need to alleviate suffering all over this planet. I choose, because it's all I can do at this time, to focus energy where I live, and if i can write a letter or lobby or anything else, I do it - I'm very grateful when I get reminders such as this thread of things that need attention!

The second topic is my own alienation from this site due to certain posters who are mean and use defensive humor to hijack posts. I'm trying harder to simply avoid the posts of these members; but it makes me feel less willing to post. I've occasionally flailed out in frustration over this and am trying to keep a cooler head for the future. Like someone else said, you don't have to read a post, not even mine! but since so many respond to the posts I find offensive, it's hard to avoid.

I do think it would have been better had the subject line not singled out 2 posters, even though I agree with the original poster, and had been more specific - is there some way of changing to a mechanism which allows your cursor to scroll over the subject heading and read the first few lines of the post? That would be enormously helpful!

Haha. Agreed. If there is warning trading going about I don't need any of mine. I'm a perfect angel.

Trying to be perfect requires too much energy and effort. I only have one life to live. As long as I'm not out here chopping up bodies or going postal, I'm doing righteous. You're an angel for now but just wait......we'll see a damn cemetary in your closet in no time...j/k......love yas..

How long is the Warning in effect? In my neck of the woods we have Tornado Warnings, but they only last a set period of time before they give the all clear. So my question is, are you asking him to NOT be himself for this particular discussion and that if he backs off the warning goes away? Or are you saying that one more time is all it takes from now until the end of time and BANG you are gone?

Cause if its the latter I think it is HIGHLY out of order. Being that he was called out.

Sincerely,AndrewThe In Crowd's press secretary.

Logged

LIFE is not a race to the grave with the intention of arriving safelyin a pretty and well-preserved body, but, rather to skid in broadside,thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming--WOW! WHAT ARIDE!!!

"It is better to have the breadth of Aunt Jemima, than the depth of a piece of parchment"

I have no idea where that came from, but it flew through my brain at 2am and I had to share it here.

Hey guys, when do we draw the line. A bland dish created in the kitchen is the same as a full and rich one, except for the addition of the correct spices. It is very clear that Matty and others here, bring spice to the dish. They enrich the taste of the content. When the spices are shunned and removed, blandness takes over, and the dish becomes hurtfully boring. I choose not to have a boring experience in life. I choose that full taste of a dish with a taste that lingers on the tongue long after one has swallowed.

I have no idea where this all came from, but it is the way I am feeling about this thread this morning.

Love,

Logged

The Bible contains 6 admonishments to homosexuals,and 362 to heterosexuals.This doesn't mean that God doesn't love heterosexuals, It's just that they need more supervision.Lynn Lavne

"Hey guys, when do we draw the line. A bland dish created in the kitchen is the same as a full and rich one, except for the addition of the correct spices. It is very clear that Matty and others here, bring spice to the dish. They enrich the taste of the content. When the spices are shunned and removed, blandness takes over, and the dish becomes hurtfully boring. I choose not to have a boring experience in life. I choose that full taste of a dish with a taste that lingers on the tongue long after one has swallowed.

Excellent analogy. Of course we know what happens to a dish when too many spices are added or you add the wrong spice. Spice should always be added in moderation.

Logged

"Let us give pubicity to HV/AIDS and not hide it..." "One of the things destroying people with AIDS is the stigma we attach to it." Nelson Mandela

MTD gets a free pass for calling other forums members stupid, as long as he uses a touch of wit each time he does it? It doesn't matter how often folks send us moderator reports complaining about his posts, right? He's a longtime member, so we should ignore all the moderator reports? He gets more reports than almost any other member, but his spice factor should negate this fact, right?

So if YOU like his style, it means that all the others that feel bullied by it are just wusses, right?

We actually gets lots of members complaining that we (the moderators) play favorites with Matty and a few other longtime members. I know we don't (Dingo is currently on a 30-day TO, and he's one of our bloggers), but are folks here advocating that we should?