I hope you are able to get past that, as it's only going to harm you. frown

Sorry friend, but the harm has been done and there is no recovering from it. As you pointed out, we disagree. I expect that to be a recurring theme and I'm okay with that. After all....it's what we're here for.

Well, that's unfortunate, and I'm sorry for you.

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I don't think I would say that their goal was social democracy.

Of the rich, for the rich and by the rich was their actual plan but that sounded a bit too high and mighty so even then they lied to the people they were trying to convince. They lied them into fighting a war and creating a new country dedicated to making the rich richer at the expense of the poor. In that they have been incredibly successful.

The experiment is winding down and it has failed.

.....no. Say whatever else you will about them, the Founders were pretty clear on their motivations, and pretty bitter in their later divisions.

If you're filthy rich but still want to look like you believe in democracy, you spend a few bucks to get people to vote the way you want them to.

If that trick worked, Hillary Clinton would be President.

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If you can trick people into believing that life is a zero-sum game, they will vote for the "winners" at their own expense, because a couple of hundred years of destructive conditioning have taught them to worship the winners.

Or, more likely, against those whom they perceive to be hostile to them. I don't think the Left realizes how much incidents like Memories' Pizza shored up support for Trump.

I would agree we have definitely evolved to a much more democratic society, and that the founding fathers probably would have thought that dangerous. Looking at the state of our modern politics, I'm not positive they would be wrong.

Yes, just making voting mandatory might well be disastrous. You would get a huge number of votes from completely uninformed and uninterested folks, so dumb they have to use velcro instead of shoelaces. They would be very easy to manipulate just by spending a lot of money on advertising, holding pep rallies, and giving away red hats.

Indiana Pizzeria at Center of Marriage Equality Controversy Has ClosedMemories Pizza was among the first to vocally support Mike Pence’s anti-gay Religious Freedom Restoration Act in 2015 link

That's what being on the wrong side of history looks like. That's where Republicans sit today. Trump is the tarbaby they've all got stuck to.

Trump is the President you got because people on the left decided to convince a large section of the populace that he was the only thing standing between them and and being similarly targeted. Happy with the results of that decision? Because if you keep doing what got you Trump, you'll keep getting more Trump :shrug:

Or, more likely, against those whom they perceive to be hostile to them. I don't think the Left realizes how much incidents like Memories' Pizza shored up support for Trump.

Truth in advertising: I am hostile to that sort of person.

Cool. Then understand that they will vote for anything and anyone who promises to fight you, and the more of a vicious bully and strongman that person is, the more attractive he or she will be.

My Church in North Carolina had a grand total of about two actual Trump Fans in the entire congregation. Everyone else was disgusted by his behavior and thought he'd be a terrible president. And - and I don't mean to be a dick about this, but, you did offer truth here - people like you convinced them to vote for him anyway. I think I and my wife were the only ones who didn't.

It likely worked similarly with Trump's more avid racist fans, who probably pushed not a few minority groups who otherwise would have strongly disliked Hillary to come out for her, perceiving that they were doing so in self-defense.

Targeting your fellow citizens by politicizing every walk of life, by pursuing totalitarian politics, is how you produce Purges, it's how you produce backlashes, it's how you produce mobs, and it's how you produce counter mobs.

But hey. It's fun to look down on and punish the Other for their dirty, dirty, Otherness. It means you're better than them, and, who doesn't enjoy a little superiority? Have fun.

Cool. Then understand that they will vote for anything and anyone who promises to fight you, and the more of a vicious bully and strongman that person is, the more attractive he or she will be.

So maybe we have to do something more than vote at some point.

I don't see that there's much left to lose.

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My Church in North Carolina had a grand total of about two actual Trump Fans in the entire congregation. Everyone else was disgusted by his behavior and thought he'd be a terrible president. And - and I don't mean to be a dick about this, but, you did offer truth here - people like you convinced them to vote for him anyway. I think I and my wife were the only ones who didn't.

If they want an excuse, they'll find one. Nobody made them vote for an [censored]. They are human beings with agency, and if they can't tell right from wrong, that's on them.

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It likely worked similarly with Trump's more avid racist fans, who probably pushed not a few minority groups who otherwise would have strongly disliked Hillary to come out for her, perceiving that they were doing so in self-defense.

Probably. I didn't much like Hillary Clinton's aristocratic attitude, but I voted for her because she isn't outright evil and Trump is. I voted for Bush 41 back in the day, then Clinton (first term), then Dole, then Kerry, then Obama twice, then Clinton.

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Targeting your fellow citizens by politicizing every walk of life, by pursuing totalitarian politics, is how you produce Purges, it's how you produce backlashes, it's how you produce mobs, and it's how you produce counter mobs.

Totalitarian politics, you say?

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But hey. It's fun to look down on and punish the Other for their dirty, dirty, Otherness. It means you're better than them, and, who doesn't enjoy a little superiority? Have fun.