If you are new to the forums, you must register a free account before you can post. The forums have a separate registration from the rest of www.chronofhorse.com, so your log in information for one will not automatically work for the other. Disclaimer: The opinions expressed here are the views of the individual and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of The Chronicle of the Horse.

Sorry, my fault as I didn't make it clear.
What I meant was to get good hands...you need to earn your reins. You don't start with contact...and if you go to 100 lesson barns you'll see countless lessons to first year riders with coaches having them use contact.

Hands should be 100% independent of your seat, body, legs. Anyone who has hands that aren't should not be riding with contact.

Anyone riding dressage to the point where they're over-analyzing the "purity" and "throughness" and other catch phrases...they should be able to ride a horse around an arena in 3 gaits without reins. Maybe not perfectly, but if you cannot turn, stop and transition gaits without reins/contact (on a trained horse, not greenie ) then there are serious problems.

Not only should a rider be able to not balance on their hands, they should also be able to control a trained animal without them.

You jump in the saddle,
Hold onto the bridle!
Jump in the line!
...Belefonte

I want to learn to train progressively! {jumps up and down waving hands} ideayoda, I want to go to your school.

I don't know why but I find myself lately very intrigued by DV and the garrocha and lightness and harmony. Maybe it is because when I look at those DV horses I see more of similarity to my horse than I do when looking at a fancy warmbloods. And I want to work some more cows, too!

I am becoming enamored with team penning, saw it on RFD tv and wow! Those horses can rock back on those hocks and spin and hook onto that cow...just amazing....and I want a reining horse and I want a cutting horse and I want, I want and I want...but alas, I don't need! ;-)

A cutting horse is a useful beast as is a roping one, the way reining horses are trained they are NOT the same thing in today's world as the later...and do not approximate the same skills (since they are on the forehand/low neck/etc). Again most reining is a skill gone the same way as rk...false/out of balance/etc.

A lot of what I have seen posted here (videos) has also reminded me of what a good Polo Pony should be able to do---very good Polo Players are like ballerinas on Horseback and their horses seem to be athletes in the "extreme".

A cutting horse is a useful beast as is a roping one, the way reining horses are trained they are NOT the same thing in today's world as the later...and do not approximate the same skills (since they are on the forehand/low neck/etc). Again most reining is a skill gone the same way as rk...false/out of balance/etc.

Alas, the picture produced by many reining riders is a vastly overweight rider, spurring a horse through his paces.

Some riders change their horse, they change their saddle, they change their teacher; they never change themselves.

Quote: Misty Blue-"Anyone riding dressage to the point where they're over-analyzing the "purity" and "throughness" and other catch phrases...they should be able to ride a horse around an arena in 3 gaits without reins. Maybe not perfectly, but if you cannot turn, stop and transition gaits without reins/contact (on a trained horse, not greenie ) then there are serious problems"

I agree totally, therefore I have not many students.

Those who are attempting to make a living teaching and training also tend to blow through it, because money talks, and as ideayoda has said, the judges are encouraging the rider.

Last edited by merrygoround; Nov. 4, 2012 at 09:17 PM.

Some riders change their horse, they change their saddle, they change their teacher; they never change themselves.

I would love to be educated here. It seems that the Bridle Horse is schooled to self carriage? So not worked on contact? The chains connecting the spade to the reins convey very subtle communication, supported by seat and leg aids? Is this in line with the French school of dressage? As opposed to the German school of contact through the snaffle enforced with the curb of the double at the upper levels? I've always wondered about this!

This drives me nuts! A horse can be in "self-carriage" and still have contact, but people need to understand that "contact" is NOT YES/NO or EITHER/OR.

It (should be) a CONTINUUM!! It's a matter of degree. Let's all please be aware that the mouth/muzzle of a horse is one of their most sensitive areas. A simple closing of the fingers (NOT moving the hand, much less the wrist or heaven help us, the elbow) is all it might take, ONCE THE HORSE IS EDUCATED.

In modern German dressage you see alot of gaping mouths & such horrid pressure to be almost unbelievable, so those horses are never given the opportunity to learn lightness. But lightness does NOT mean throwing the reins away so there is ZERO contact.

So please, if you take a properly fitted snaffle, with properly weighted reins, you can "Communicate" (ie have contact) with a horse with just a finger's worth of pressure.

i just want to put a word of caution out - be very careful about who you go to see/who you get to work with.... there is a LOT of scary "spanish" stuff out there......

i do know Manolo Mendez does Garrocha - i have no idea if he is ever coming back - but you might contact Caroline to see if she can give you any idea of flks to contact..... maybe she could ask MM?

I personally am fascinated with Working Equitation - and want badly to try that i think it would be a blast!

I would agree in advising caution. Most of the demos I've witnessed have been at the bigger Lustanio/Andulusian shows. Then find out who THOSE guys studied under in Spain & Mexico (and Portugual, right?). So you don't end up with some subpar garroucher spreading more mis-information to the dumb Yanks while taking their $$$

Brazil...look to Brazil. Portugal, Spain and Brazil. Brazil is a fabulous country to look for properly bred and trained Lusitanos and Andalusians. And the traditional, correct and multi-generational trainers.

You jump in the saddle,
Hold onto the bridle!
Jump in the line!
...Belefonte

My horse is s light to the aids it is a joy to ride her. My trainer takes no short cuts, insists on keeping everything correct. He is not French School per se, since the French School is not the only school that trains light horses..historically several styles have evolved.

Sadly, few people appreciate my horses' schooling - people tell me she needs more contact, or has no front brakes...sigh ... all they need to do is breathe, almost think the aid...I was looking to find her a sympathetic rider, but nobody can ride these days, it seems.

JMHO;
I had schooling from Mexican Charros [California/Vaquero] while living in S.D. and I found it to be two sided just like in dressage when it came to contact.
I have been schooled with the Spanish Spade and let me tell you there is contact unless the rider releases the reins. The finesse required to use it is "incredible" and if dressage riders could use their curbs in the same manner as the SSpade is used I do believe they would love the performances of their horses.

I do believe the basic schooling by a master in the C/V/D would be helpful to any rider, however, one must make sure they do not connect with the roughshodding ones.

I have seen the you tube videos that you have posted of your riding and "training". Somehow, pehaps having lived in So.Cal as a child and having had exposure to the "Bridle Horse" folks, (including working for several well known folks who were kind enough to give a kid insruction and saddle time in exchange for work) ,whatever you learned, from whomever you learned it, does not do them or you any credit.

You have been "schooled with a Spanish Spade"?
Apparently not to the extent that you understand it.

A horse is never ridden with "contact" in a spade. Not done.

(Of course there is contact, unless you "release the reins", kind of the same with any curb bit, don't you think?) Your suggestion that if dressage riders "could use their curbs in the same manner as an SSpade.." seems to show a basic lack of understanding of how different bits function.

I really don't mean to be nasty, however I am getting too old to let the bull go past without comment when you have proven yourself to be just.so.far.out.there..