Posted - 08/16/2013 : 13:47:16 First off, I don't think I was being argumentative with anyone nor was I trying to debate anyone else's opinions. I was simply supporting my argument and making the point towards Duke that picking a player purely on the PP abilities is short sighted in my opinion.

That is why I said I didn't get your point. I didn't think we were disagreeing about anything which made me misunderstand what you were trying to say.

I never intended to attack anyone personally or be overly defensive. My apologies if that is the perception. The majority of this debate was about the defensive players who people think will make the team and when Duke posted Keith and Letang as his PP guys, I was questioning that opinion and countered with Subban and Campbell.

Again, sorry if I offended anyone as that was not my intention.

Ottawa, the best coached team in the NHL, with MVP like players such as Chris Neil, will win the Cup in 2013!

JOSHUACANADA

Posted - 08/16/2013 : 10:22:19 Wait, where is Campbell's name on Canada's invite list? Why don't I see it there?

"I now realise that the Toronto Maple Leafs, Canada's finest hockey team, is better than the Ottawa Senators - and always will be. PS - LOVE that Dion Phaneuf! "

JOSHUACANADA

Posted - 08/16/2013 : 10:19:15 I get your point Alex. I think most people do. Wish others who do not didn't take a difference of opinion as a person attack. I actually am looking at Campbell a little different depth wise after hearing the whole story, though. My thinking of adding Subban or Letang to my list due to there PP specialty, might be different after thinking more clearly with regards to Campbell, who definitely has more experience and a greater body of work.

"I now realise that the Toronto Maple Leafs, Canada's finest hockey team, is better than the Ottawa Senators - and always will be. PS - LOVE that Dion Phaneuf! "

1. I began by clarifying to Duke what your point was while at the same time, having a different opinion on which 2 Canadian dmen would be my picks for top 2 pp guys. Just an opinion, not right, not wrong. That opinion was "my point" which you didn't get then and apparently still don't get?

2. You then decided to defend your selections with stats, which I pointed out were somewhat skewed to support your picks. At the time, I was only pointing that out however again my intention was only to get my original point across. That is why I began that post with "Beans....all I was saying is if I was picking with this logic these wouldn't be my two.". No where did I imply that your picks were wrong, not worthy, stupid, etc, I just stated my opinion. Again, my point was my two pp picks would not be the same as yours. Still you somehow missed that. 3. My 3rd post aknowledged that unlike you, I actually got your point. Funny thing is, I needed no lessons on what Brian Campbell has accomplished over the past few seasons. I know he's a good dman and especially a good pp guy. It doesn't mean I'd pick him though. When reading my last post back, I've come to the conclussion that you're simply being argumentative and not admitting to "getting my point". I've come to appreciate your hockey knowledge and know you're not a moron nor intellectually challenged so there's no way you could have missed my original point that quite simply, Campbell would not be one of my top two Canadian PP picks!!!

If you wanna go off on a tangent and discuss who my picks would be and why, that's totally fine. Just don't get it mixed into a debate where you've unecessarily gotten all defensive because I didn't agree with you on something. Heck, for all you know, Campbell might even be my 3rd pick for Canada?

Beans15

Posted - 08/16/2013 : 07:36:35 No, I don't get your point. Sorry. I was simply defending the point as you were speaking about Campbell's performance against his peers only last season. I was simply trying to clairify my opinion of his abilities over a larger body of work.

If I was picking players purely on their PP ability, Campbell would be one of them without a doubt. Look at the teams he has played on when leading the league in PP points as a defensemen! Buffalo and Florida! Seriously, if he can do that with sub-par teams, what could he do if he was playing with the best Canada would offer. My personal opinion is that he was burried in Chicago and Quinville did not like him so he became 2nd fiddle to Keith. Not saying Campbell is a better player than Keith but as a PP player, I think Campbell is not only the best Canadian defenseman PP guy but he might be the best defenceman on the PP in the world.

If I was picking purely on PP my first pairing would be Campbell and Weber as I believe Weber to have the best and hardest shot of any Canadian defensemen. My 2nd pairing would be Keith and Seabrook. 3rd would be Doughty and Subban.

Purely PP speaking.

Ottawa, the best coached team in the NHL, with MVP like players such as Chris Neil, will win the Cup in 2013!

Alex116

Posted - 08/15/2013 : 13:51:59

quote:Originally posted by Beans15

You are right. But what you clearly missed was the point where I said if you look back in the past 4-5 years you will find Campbell's name in the top 5 every year.

I wasn't completely accurate with that but wasn't far off. In 2 of the 3 seasons he played in Chicago he was on the 2nd unit behind Keith and had only 17 pp point in those two season.

That said, in the past 6 years, Campell has been the top PP Canadian defensemen twice and in the top 10 in 4 of those 6 seasons. He has 125 PP points in that span. From what I have gathered, that is the most of any Canadian born defensemen.

Get my point??

Ottawa, the best coached team in the NHL, with MVP like players such as Chris Neil, will win the Cup in 2013!

Yup. Got it the first time too. I just simply said he wouldn't be one of my two under Duke's strange / hypothetical selection criteria. Answer me this though. If you could have just 2 designated PP dmen on Team Canada, would he be one of your two? If so, that's fine. That's your pick/opinion. All I was saying is I wouldnt pick the same two as you!

Get my point...yet???

Beans15

Posted - 08/15/2013 : 11:40:21 You are right. But what you clearly missed was the point where I said if you look back in the past 4-5 years you will find Campbell's name in the top 5 every year.

I wasn't completely accurate with that but wasn't far off. In 2 of the 3 seasons he played in Chicago he was on the 2nd unit behind Keith and had only 17 pp point in those two season.

That said, in the past 6 years, Campell has been the top PP Canadian defensemen twice and in the top 10 in 4 of those 6 seasons. He has 125 PP points in that span. From what I have gathered, that is the most of any Canadian born defensemen.

Get my point??

Ottawa, the best coached team in the NHL, with MVP like players such as Chris Neil, will win the Cup in 2013!

Alex116

Posted - 08/15/2013 : 09:34:18

quote:Originally posted by Beans15

Statistically speaking, Subban and Campbell have more PP points than any other Canadian defensemen last season. I am pretty sure if you looked back over the past 4-5 years you will find Campbell's name in the top 5 every year.

Beans....all I was saying is if I was picking with this logic, these two wouldn't be my two. Subban, sure, quite likely. Campbell? Prob not. You stated they had the most pp points in this last 48 game season but conveniently you failed to mention to the readers that guys like Green and Letang missed 13 games and were only 3 or 4 points back of Campbell! Heck, even Phaneuf was only 1 point back with less pp time, as was Schultz, just 2 back!

The Duke

Posted - 08/13/2013 : 03:53:11 I`m sure who-ever they pick, they will do just fine

Beans15

Posted - 08/12/2013 : 11:29:29 Statistically speaking, Subban and Campbell have more PP points than any other Canadian defensemen last season. I am pretty sure if you looked back over the past 4-5 years you will find Campbell's name in the top 5 every year.

If I was picking the team based on your logic Duke, I would agree with Doughty and Seabrook, I would have Subban and Campbell as my PP guys, and I would have Keith and Seabrook as by shutdown guys.

But that is not how I would pick a team. I'm basing my decision on how you proposed to pick the team.

Ottawa, the best coached team in the NHL, with MVP like players such as Chris Neil, will win the Cup in 2013!

Alex116

Posted - 08/11/2013 : 08:59:24 Duke, in fact you are putting words in his mouth. He said "as pp guys". No one said anything about which two a GM would pick as all around dmen. I don't agree with Beans take on them being the 2 best PP guys but wanted to point out that that was his comment and not as all ariund guys!

The Duke

Posted - 08/10/2013 : 10:12:05 Beans, you really think that Subban and Campbell are head and shoulders above the 2 pp guys i picked ?

I guess you are saying that if you were an NHL GM and you were offered either a combination of Keith / Letang vs Subban / Campbell.......you would take Subban and Campbell.....really ??.......thats interesting.

Not trying to put words in your mouth, but you did just post that Subban and Campbell are head and shoulders above Keith and Letang.

I don`t think that too many people would agree with you on this one Beans.

Beans15

Posted - 08/07/2013 : 08:13:01 Well, if that is the case, why not put Subban and Brian Campbell as your PP guys. Both can skate like the wind and both are head and shoulders the best PP defensemen in the NHL.

I still don't get breaking up Keith and Seabrook but everyone is entitled to their opinion.

Ottawa, the best coached team in the NHL, with MVP like players such as Chris Neil, will win the Cup in 2013!

The Duke

Posted - 08/06/2013 : 20:27:59 I get what you are saying about the chemistry thing but these are all high profile pro players, they adjust to a new partner very quickly.

I think Keith and Letang are the go to PP guys and could be the 1 goal offensive diffrence in a win for team Canada. I believe they would gel together very quickly with their offensive abilities and blazing speed.

One is a left handed shot / the other a rightie......this makes for very, very quick puck movement on the PP.....theres no need for either to have to pick up a pass on the back side of their stick......when a D-man does have to do this, it gives the opposing fore-checker that one split second to break up the play.....this would not be a concern with Keith and Letang.

One PP goal could be the difference in winning or losing this tourn.

I believe that Seabrook and Staal together would be one of the best shutdown combinations that Canada could possibly put together......Seabrook is outstanding and i think Staal is just as good or better.

Beans15

Posted - 08/06/2013 : 05:34:47 Just out of curiousity Duke, why on earth would you split up Keith and Seabrook?? Why it not make more sense to put Stall with Letang and keep the Chicago pairing together??

One thing I recall from Vancouver is that Yzerman was big on having players who played together on the Olympic team. I think that Weber and Doughty are the two best defensemen for Canada so they are there for sure. Otherwise, I would not be surprised to see the other 4 dmen being Keith/Seabrook and Peitrangelo/Bouwmeester.

Considering the short turn around to get to Russia and start playing, I don't think there will be much time to build chemistry. Having team mates on the back end will be important.

Ottawa, the best coached team in the NHL, with MVP like players such as Chris Neil, will win the Cup in 2013!

The Duke

Posted - 08/04/2013 : 10:40:16 Slozo, if i were GM of team Canada...heres my defense.

7th D- man would be a very tough decision.......my order would be something like..1. Hamuis2. Peitrangelo3. Subban..........not that i think Subban is not a star or anything but he is stiil young and hot headed. I`m not sure ( in my opinion ) if i would be able to trust him to take one for the team and not be selfish.

slozo

Posted - 08/02/2013 : 06:58:39

quote:Originally posted by The Duke

Slozo, back in 2009, just before the 2010 Olympics, i argued with my friends that Phaneuf SHOULD HAVE been a part of team Canada......this belief of mine was just from watching him play with Calgary ( you see i didn`t see him play much ) and some international hockey with Canada.

Its so diffrent when you see a player play every game...all season long. I usually catch about 75 leaf games each season. After watching all these games you form diffrent opinions regarding players......especially compared to non leaf fans who usually just see high-lights of the leafs has we do their teams.

I can honestly say as a leaf fan that Phaneuf should not be on team Canada ahead of the other great D-man that Canada has.

I think Phaneuf would make a great forward, i honestly do. He would be a great guy to plank himself in front of the opposing net and cause havoc.

Hey - fair enough, that's why it's your opinion, and that's fair.

I think sometimes it goes both ways for seeing a guy on your team more often . . . especially in a nit-picking fanbase with huge media glare like Toronto has.

I think Phaneuf never helped himself in the Toronto media, because he's basically not the brightest light in the city, and he has zero to say in interviews . . . and as our captain, it somehow comes off a bit 'funny' that this is supposed to be our leader. And he has often been paired with a far lesser player (Phaneuf has, I mean) - last year being with the green rookie Kostka is a prime example.

But like I said, it's your opinion, and that's fair enough.

Would you have Subban on your team Canada though?

"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug

The Duke

Posted - 08/01/2013 : 19:05:00 Slozo, back in 2009, just before the 2010 Olympics, i argued with my friends that Phaneuf SHOULD HAVE been a part of team Canada......this belief of mine was just from watching him play with Calgary ( you see i didn`t see him play much ) and some international hockey with Canada.

Its so diffrent when you see a player play every game...all season long. I usually catch about 75 leaf games each season. After watching all these games you form diffrent opinions regarding players......especially compared to non leaf fans who usually just see high-lights of the leafs has we do their teams.

I can honestly say as a leaf fan that Phaneuf should not be on team Canada ahead of the other great D-man that Canada has.

I think Phaneuf would make a great forward, i honestly do. He would be a great guy to plank himself in front of the opposing net and cause havoc.

slozo

Posted - 08/01/2013 : 09:03:33

quote:Originally posted by Alex116

quote:Originally posted by slozo

You see how Leaf fans are with their "blue-coloured glasses"?!? (that was for fans of other teams who claim how we always overrate our own players, as if it was endemic to Leaf fans)

The proof for Phaneuf is in the pudding.Going by most Leaf fans, NO ONE had him in the "possibles" list to go to Sochi . . . and yet the best and brightest minds in Canadian hockey DID.That alone speaks volumes.

So, are you claiming to be one of "the best and brightest minds in Canadian hockey"? IIRC, you had him in your top 6 or 7, no?

Not to repeat myself,But the proof is int he pudding.

Before the invitee list was put out, I was the only one who put out his name.

That being said, from the choices that Team Canada has . . . it IS quite likely Phaneuf doesn't make this squad.

"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug

Alex116

Posted - 07/31/2013 : 15:56:02

quote:Originally posted by slozo

You see how Leaf fans are with their "blue-coloured glasses"?!? (that was for fans of other teams who claim how we always overrate our own players, as if it was endemic to Leaf fans)

The proof for Phaneuf is in the pudding.Going by most Leaf fans, NO ONE had him in the "possibles" list to go to Sochi . . . and yet the best and brightest minds in Canadian hockey DID.That alone speaks volumes.

So, are you claiming to be one of "the best and brightest minds in Canadian hockey"? IIRC, you had him in your top 6 or 7, no?

nuxfan

Posted - 07/31/2013 : 13:22:53

quote:Originally posted by slozo

I think the REAL controversy for the Canadian team will be . . . how they will justify leaving off the current Norris trophy winning defenceman?

Does ANYONE have Subban on their lists? Not many that I see, if any . . . and that goes for the commentators and pundits on television and in print as well. What will the backlash and reaction be if/when Subban doesn't make that roster?

OR . . . is team Canada forced to include him in no matter what just because of that trophy?

"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug

I think that says more about how the Norris trophy has become more about recognizing the best "offensive dman" and less about "all around defensemen".

Subban is obviously a gifted offensive dman and an excellent PP specialist...but I don't think I'd qualify him as one of the top-6 all around Canadian defensemen. Every team needs/wants a PP specialist - but if team Canada thinks they can get a strong PP guy in an overall defensive package, Subban will be left off.

JOSHUACANADA

Posted - 07/31/2013 : 09:25:21

quote:Originally posted by slozo

quote:Originally posted by JOSHUACANADA

quote:Originally posted by slozo

You see how Leaf fans are with their "blue-coloured glasses"?!? (that was for fans of other teams who claim how we always overrate our own players, as if it was endemic to Leaf fans)

The proof for Phaneuf is in the pudding.Going by most Leaf fans, NO ONE had him in the "possibles" list to go to Sochi . . . and yet the best and brightest minds in Canadian hockey DID.

That alone speaks volumes.

"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug

Does this mean you think Phaneuf is a lock or not? He is of the smaller group of Left handed defenders and has plenty of experience. I think the fact it is on a larger ice surface will prevent him from being selected, that and his poor timing when pinching or laying out a heavy hit, but would understand if he was.

"I now realise that the Toronto Maple Leafs, Canada's finest hockey team, is better than the Ottawa Senators - and always will be. PS - LOVE that Dion Phaneuf! "

Is it ever possible that I write something, and someone doesn't try and put words in my mouth?!? I'm starting to think not . . .

Does this mean that I think Phaneuf is a lock or not . . . where to begin. First off, I gave MY OPINION and MY LINE-UP - not what I thought the team Canada staff would have.Secondly, I don't think anyone other than Weber, perhaps Doughty and Keith, are a 'lock'. So no, clearly Phaneuf is not a lock. He is probably longer odds, in fact . . . but he's not a total longshot either IMHO.

I believe everyone is overrating skating speed for defencemen . . . I think it's more pertinent for forwards here. Experience matters though, and having a great all-around game matters, being experienced playing all situations. And he's a tough SOB to play against, perfect fit as a third pairing defender.

"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug

I was just looking for clarification, not trying to be argumentative. I actually agree with your assessment of Phaneuf. Really wish people wouldn't take comments personally. For the record, I have Subban on my roster on the right side, albeit more than likely on the taxi squad due to his lack of experience, but because he is a powerplay specialist like Phaneuf but faster, who also hits hard with better stats last year, I ranked him above Phaneuf.

"I now realise that the Toronto Maple Leafs, Canada's finest hockey team, is better than the Ottawa Senators - and always will be. PS - LOVE that Dion Phaneuf! "

Beans15

Posted - 07/31/2013 : 07:01:04 I too don't see Phaneuf on this team ahead of guys like Bouwmeester simply because I do think skating for defensemen is super important on the big ice. Does anyone remember how painful it was to watch the forwards of every other team skate around the likes of Foote, Pronger, and Regher??

That said, Slozo's opinion is valid and when Phaneuf is on the top of his game, few players are more valuable on the point on the PP. He's a poor man's Canadian Zdeno Chara. Obviously smaller but still a big man who is hard to play against and has a bomb from the point.

To the question of Subban, I think you would get more push back from him not being on the team if he had won the Norris in a full season and he won by a lot. He tied with Letang in point, had an average +/- and 7 of his 11 goals came on the PP. He was 35th in TOI and he played almost 3 times as much on the PP as on the PK.

I don't think anyone will be too upset to not see Subban on the team. He certainly is an offensively focused defensemen and I think guys like Letang and Green have a longer body of work to trust more than Subban.

Ottawa, the best coached team in the NHL, with MVP like players such as Chris Neil, will win the Cup in 2013!

slozo

Posted - 07/31/2013 : 04:50:52 I think the REAL controversy for the Canadian team will be . . . how they will justify leaving off the current Norris trophy winning defenceman?

Does ANYONE have Subban on their lists? Not many that I see, if any . . . and that goes for the commentators and pundits on television and in print as well. What will the backlash and reaction be if/when Subban doesn't make that roster?

OR . . . is team Canada forced to include him in no matter what just because of that trophy?

"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug

slozo

Posted - 07/30/2013 : 22:04:16

quote:Originally posted by JOSHUACANADA

quote:Originally posted by slozo

You see how Leaf fans are with their "blue-coloured glasses"?!? (that was for fans of other teams who claim how we always overrate our own players, as if it was endemic to Leaf fans)

The proof for Phaneuf is in the pudding.Going by most Leaf fans, NO ONE had him in the "possibles" list to go to Sochi . . . and yet the best and brightest minds in Canadian hockey DID.

That alone speaks volumes.

"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug

Does this mean you think Phaneuf is a lock or not? He is of the smaller group of Left handed defenders and has plenty of experience. I think the fact it is on a larger ice surface will prevent him from being selected, that and his poor timing when pinching or laying out a heavy hit, but would understand if he was.

"I now realise that the Toronto Maple Leafs, Canada's finest hockey team, is better than the Ottawa Senators - and always will be. PS - LOVE that Dion Phaneuf! "

Is it ever possible that I write something, and someone doesn't try and put words in my mouth?!? I'm starting to think not . . .

Does this mean that I think Phaneuf is a lock or not . . . where to begin. First off, I gave MY OPINION and MY LINE-UP - not what I thought the team Canada staff would have.Secondly, I don't think anyone other than Weber, perhaps Doughty and Keith, are a 'lock'. So no, clearly Phaneuf is not a lock. He is probably longer odds, in fact . . . but he's not a total longshot either IMHO.

I believe everyone is overrating skating speed for defencemen . . . I think it's more pertinent for forwards here. Experience matters though, and having a great all-around game matters, being experienced playing all situations. And he's a tough SOB to play against, perfect fit as a third pairing defender.

"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug

JOSHUACANADA

Posted - 07/30/2013 : 14:24:18

quote:Originally posted by slozo

You see how Leaf fans are with their "blue-coloured glasses"?!? (that was for fans of other teams who claim how we always overrate our own players, as if it was endemic to Leaf fans)

The proof for Phaneuf is in the pudding.Going by most Leaf fans, NO ONE had him in the "possibles" list to go to Sochi . . . and yet the best and brightest minds in Canadian hockey DID.

That alone speaks volumes.

"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug

Does this mean you think Phaneuf is a lock or not? He is of the smaller group of Left handed defenders and has plenty of experience. I think the fact it is on a larger ice surface will prevent him from being selected, that and his poor timing when pinching or laying out a heavy hit, but would understand if he was.

"I now realise that the Toronto Maple Leafs, Canada's finest hockey team, is better than the Ottawa Senators - and always will be. PS - LOVE that Dion Phaneuf! "

slozo

Posted - 07/30/2013 : 11:14:10 You see how Leaf fans are with their "blue-coloured glasses"?!? (that was for fans of other teams who claim how we always overrate our own players, as if it was endemic to Leaf fans)

The proof for Phaneuf is in the pudding.Going by most Leaf fans, NO ONE had him in the "possibles" list to go to Sochi . . . and yet the best and brightest minds in Canadian hockey DID.

That alone speaks volumes.

"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug

Leafs81

Posted - 07/29/2013 : 17:36:20 If those invites are healthy and ready to play in Sochi, Phaneuf will never make team Canada. Sorry Slozo.

Doughty is a great well rounded defenseman and even though his pick in 2010 was controversial, he was one of the best during the tournament.

In 2010 I probably didn't agree with Seabrook being chosen, and I remember him not playing many minutes. It seemed like Yzerman chose him and the coach didn't really agree on it. But since then, Seabrook won two Stanley Cups and still plays with Keith. In 2014, he will be chosen and he will prove to be a good choice. Seabrook and Keith together are a great pairing and we need that chemistry.

Here are my pairings (It will probably change 10 times until next February)

Weber, DoughtyKeith, SeabrookLetang, Pietrangelo (I don't see a lot of Pietrangelo, but he seems like a well rounded young defense)M. Staal

but ...Phaneuf ???...on a big ice surface ??....he is too slow and can`t keep up on an NHL size ice surface...

Whats he gonna do on the much bigger ice ??

I`m a leaf fan but i call it as i see it.....opposing players blow around Phaneuf all season long, way too slow for the bigger ice........can you also picture him with those bone-head ....poor timing pinches ??.... can you imagine Phaneuf ( being slow of foot ) getting caught and trying to turn and get back to recover ??.......impossible, he just can`t do it.

Phaneuf would be a major liability to team Canada, especially on a large ice surface......i`ve read from a couple of posters about how Phaneuf needs a great d-man to play along side of him....i guess to make him look better..........great players don`t need another great player to make them look good.......great players make other players look good..............in Toronto, Phaneuf should be making Gunnarson or Holzer or ( who - ever ) look great.......it shouldn`t be the other way around but it is.

Phaneuf is OK to a point.....but at 6.5 million per season ??....this is a joke.....he has been voted the most over-rated D-man in the NHL by other NHL players ( his peers )....this sends a real message, the players know.

Really Beans? I mean, you coulda just said "I agree with Alex's picks".

The only difference is in my admittedly biased selection of Hamhuis over Staal as one of the final guys on D. I don't see Staal as much obviously but i do appreciate his game. Staal and Hamhuis are both lefties and play a pretty similar game really. I'd be fine with either making the team and wouldn't have sour grapes if Hamhuis lost out to him. I'd just have to take off my Orca tinted glasses, which by the way, is the most ridiculous of all "tinted" names, and put on my red and white tinted Canadian specs!!!

slozo

Posted - 07/26/2013 : 10:41:32

quote:Originally posted by nuxfan

quote:Originally posted by Beans15

2 - You said that Boyle and Doughty are 'balanced' defensemen. I disagree. They are offensive defensemen

Beans, I can't disagree more. Along with Chara, Keith, and Weber, Doughty is without a doubt one of the top all-around defensemen in the NHL today. Plays an all around game. 27+ minutes per game, and significant time in both PK and PP roles.

@Slozo - I wonder if Staal's eye injury will be a factor in his selection? How did he do with NYR after coming back?

Marc Staal was very solid in his return - it was deemed a full recovery, so I think it only really hinges on his play after a lay-off, but that should be a moot point for this next season and the Olympics.

In the end, I truly think that if Staal is healthy and playing at the same level as a year and a half ago . . . he's on this team. A premier shutdown forward, who also happens to be well above average on offence. He's head and shoulders (IMHO) above the other top defensive forwards (not counting Weber, as he is just awesome all around, including defensively).

"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug

Beans15

Posted - 07/26/2013 : 09:16:44 Well, perhaps my perceptions of Doughty are wrong. I would still label him more of an offensive guy but he does also appear to be strong defensively. I never said he wasn't good defensively nor should the comment that a player is an offensive defenceman automatically label the player as poor defensively.

My group all skate very well, move the puck incredibly well, and are solid on both sides of the puck.

Ottawa, the best coached team in the NHL, with MVP like players such as Chris Neil, will win the Cup in 2013!

nuxfan

Posted - 07/26/2013 : 09:08:35

quote:Originally posted by Beans15

2 - You said that Boyle and Doughty are 'balanced' defensemen. I disagree. They are offensive defensemen

Beans, I can't disagree more. Along with Chara, Keith, and Weber, Doughty is without a doubt one of the top all-around defensemen in the NHL today. Plays an all around game. 27+ minutes per game, and significant time in both PK and PP roles.

@Slozo - I wonder if Staal's eye injury will be a factor in his selection? How did he do with NYR after coming back?

slozo

Posted - 07/26/2013 : 08:45:07 In the end, here are my D pairings for Team Canada:

M.Staal / WeberKeith / SeabrookPhaneuf / DoughtyPietrangelo

But that is for RIGHT NOW . . . just saying. So many god players means a lot is going to be judged on performance, who is healthy and playing well.

"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug

slozo

Posted - 07/26/2013 : 08:36:15 I agreed with a good chunk of what Beans said, but strongly disagree with his take on Doughty. Doughty did have that early stretch a year ago of very poor play, but excepting that . . . he's been a top all-around defenceman. He is solid defensively.

To answer Beans question on ranking the lefty/righty d-corps . . . man, it's a tough call, and I don't envy it one bit for the coach - but here's my take:

I am sure there might be a couple of other unnamed d-men in the Hamhuis range, but can't think of them right now.

Righties

#1 Weber (one of the NHL's premier d-men - size, skill, blistering shot, experience on the international stage, most notably 2g4a in 7 games to help lead Canada to Gold in 2010)#2 Doughty (great offense, very good defence, good physicality)

A lot of the "ties" for me will be decided in the first two months of the season. Real tough to pick one over the other here.#3 Green (has potential to be the top scoring d-man when healthy. Powerplay QB, blistering shot, amazing skating. Injuries an issue in last two years however)#3 Pietrangelo (Excellent defence, very good offense, solid big body)

#5 Subban (the reigning Norris trophy winner as the league's top defenceman SHOULD normally be a shoe-in . . . but this was a highly contraversial win for P.K. Nonetheless, he is a great skater with skill, and could be the pp specialist on the team)#5 Letang (brings everything that PK Subban does, without the controversy - and he does have chemistry with Crosby obviously.)#5 Seabrook (very solid all-around, excellent complimentary player - very solid defensively. If picked ahead of the others to play with Keith, that is fine with me for a short tournament, and it's probably the right choice. But I am just ranking players here)

Boyle Hamonic

"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug

Alex116

Posted - 07/25/2013 : 15:34:12 FWIW....i consider Doughty more "balanced" myself and in fact think his offensive game has been a little stale since Voynov's breakout in LA last year. Doughty had the one big offensive year in 2010 (59pts) but has since fallen back to a 40pt guy. Still nice numbers, but not like many thought we'd see from him.

I too think "Letang's chemistry with Crosby" is ridiculous. Sure, they play PP together (and some even strength of course), but i don't think fwd-d chemistry is anything like two dmen playing together consistently.

Sure, Hamhuis might be seen as a homer pick, but trust me when i say, he's very good defensively, yet not just a defense only guy. He is a pretty good passer on the breakout and in general is an all around "balanced" guy on D if that's what they're looking for, especially if they're after another lefty? I love PK Subban, with or without the attitude, and if they wanted another speedy guy who hits and can play special teams, he'd be the one.

Something that hasnt' been touched on is the potential chemistry between Boumeester and Pietrangelo. I checked Leftwinglock and in the last 10 games of the season, these two were the most common St Louis defensive pairing. I think that's HUGE moving forward and if they look good in the first half, they'll have a great shot at making this squad! I believe Boumeester was buried on a couple of very bad teams for so many years and that his offensive game never reached what many thought it would and he therefore was written off as overrated. Fact is, he's a very good mobile defenseman with shutdown capabilities and some offense to chip in where needed.

JOSHUACANADA

Posted - 07/25/2013 : 12:41:17 Bleacher report has this to say about Doughty "Putting his best shutdown defenseman in Weber with an elite two-way player in Doughty makes the most sense as the top pairing." It does go on to say that Keith and Seabrook make sense as the #2 pairing due to there chemistry, but puts Peitrangelo and Subban as the final pairing, which are both righty's. I still disagree with the on paper with the top 6 defenseman, but feel justified that a "expert" says Doughty is a Elite 2way player.

"I now realise that the Toronto Maple Leafs, Canada's finest hockey team, is better than the Ottawa Senators - and always will be. PS - LOVE that Dion Phaneuf! "

1 - You picked 8 guys. What's is the IR?? Are you talking about the taxi squad because that is 3 players of any position.

2 - You said that Boyle and Doughty are 'balanced' defensemen. I disagree. They are offensive defensemen. You have 3 balanced guys (Keith, Bouwmeester, and Weber), 4 offensive guys (Boyle, Letang, Subban, Doughty) and one defensive guy (Methot). You have 1 defensively focused defensemen on a team that will be playing against the most talented hockey teams in the world and he is likely on the taxi squad. Really??

3 - You cite that Letang would be on your team based on chemisty with Crosby. So Letang (a defender) makes the team because of his chemistry with Crosby (a forward) but Seabrook doesn't make the team even with the chemistry he would have with his every day playing partner??

Joke. Completely joke.

Ottawa, the best coached team in the NHL, with MVP like players such as Chris Neil, will win the Cup in 2013!

Man you are just arguing, arguing, arguing today Beans! What's a joke is I never said that Methot would be on the Taxi squad (IR reserve), Seabrook, as defined by my right handed explaination, is not on my list of 4-5 right handed inclusions, even with his chemistry with Keith, because the other guys on the right are better individually in there own ways than Seabrook. Letang is the best offensive defenseman on Canada's invite list and a lot of that has to do with his chemistry 5 on 5 and PP with Crosby. You disagree that Boyle and Doughty have rounded games with excellent offensive skills (I disagree that they are weak defensively BTW), but noted 3 guys with well rounded games and another with excellent defensive game. So why are you fighting so hard for Seabrook. Is he dating your momma? (now that was a momma joke) Doughty was Canada's best defenseman in the last Olympics, but you don't like him defensively, Great! If you don't think Boyle can handle Olympics then also, Great! I am gonna go play NHL 2014 and play with my team you go and play with yours.

"I now realise that the Toronto Maple Leafs, Canada's finest hockey team, is better than the Ottawa Senators - and always will be. PS - LOVE that Dion Phaneuf! "

1 - You picked 8 guys. What's is the IR?? Are you talking about the taxi squad because that is 3 players of any position.

2 - You said that Boyle and Doughty are 'balanced' defensemen. I disagree. They are offensive defensemen. You have 3 balanced guys (Keith, Bouwmeester, and Weber), 4 offensive guys (Boyle, Letang, Subban, Doughty) and one defensive guy (Methot). You have 1 defensively focused defensemen on a team that will be playing against the most talented hockey teams in the world and he is likely on the taxi squad. Really??

3 - You cite that Letang would be on your team based on chemisty with Crosby. So Letang (a defender) makes the team because of his chemistry with Crosby (a forward) but Seabrook doesn't make the team even with the chemistry he would have with his every day playing partner??

Joke. Completely joke.

Ottawa, the best coached team in the NHL, with MVP like players such as Chris Neil, will win the Cup in 2013!

And you take Methot over Seabrook as the 7th guy?? Really?? Also, you have 8 defensemen on your roster. It's highly unlikely the team will go with 8 defensemen and 12 forwards.

I think for all the times I complained about those people with Blue Tinted glasses there was this guy with such a massive Senators bias that was right in front of me!

I hate trying to prove a point with people that are so stuck in their ways. Saying you put Methot on the team ahead of proven winner and chemistry with Keith. You claim Letang makes the squad because of chemistry with Crosby??

I guess I am done here. Nothing more to prove.

Ottawa, the best coached team in the NHL, with MVP like players such as Chris Neil, will win the Cup in 2013!

Wow, quick to judge, Beans. Did you read the right handed reasoning for why Seabrook was off and the left handed reasoning for Methot, who is left handed and can play with just about anyone, to why I suggested he be included over a 6 defenseman on the right. Plus if you notice, I picked 5 from the right and 3 from the left and 1 will be an IR, so my pick of 8 is actually 7 with 1 on IR. If you don't agree, great! Why the angst. Its not like I pee'd on the Maple Leaf. I defintley didn't do a momma joke.

"I now realise that the Toronto Maple Leafs, Canada's finest hockey team, is better than the Ottawa Senators - and always will be. PS - LOVE that Dion Phaneuf! "