What qualifies as a hunting license? Can it be from any state / locality? If so, what's the easiest / fastest / cheapest hunting license to get? I've never even looked at hunting licenses so I don't know much about it. If there's a way to get one on-line for not much money that might be a way to stay out of any gray areas for tourists who want to go to a shooting range.

Edit: I found out that Pennsylvania offers a non-resident hunting license (available to tourists), which you buy on-line for about $100, takes one to two weeks to arrive. Is that the cheapest / easiest non-res hunting license?

What qualifies as a hunting license? Can it be from any state / locality? If so, what's the easiest / fastest / cheapest hunting license to get? I've never even looked at hunting licenses so I don't know much about it. If there's a way to get one on-line for not much money that might be a way to stay out of any gray areas for tourists who want to go to a shooting range.

Edit: I found out that Pennsylvania offers a non-resident hunting license (available to tourists), which you buy on-line for about $100, takes one to two weeks to arrive. Is that the cheapest / easiest non-res hunting license?

Florida offers a ten day non-res for about 40 bucks........that would work for your friend.

Not posession. YOU are in posession of a firearm in immediate vicinity of the immigrant shooting it.

Ok, but clearly that concept of "possession" is different for felons. A convicted felon can't even touch a gun, in almost any context (very narrow exceptions exist, not relevant to this topic). If using a gun at a shooting range is "possession" for a felon, how is it not "possession" for a tourist?

Curious... again, I've taken tourists shooting on quite a few occasions, and I would like to do it in future too, and I've seen tourists check in to shooting ranges using their passports, but I want to clearly understand the legality of it and stay out of any gray areas.

__________________
"It is long been a principle of ours that one is no more armed because he has possession of a firearm than he is a musician because he owns a piano. There is no point in having a gun if you are not capable of using it skillfully." -- Jeff Cooper

See also United States v. Huet, 665 F.3d 588 (3rd Cir., 2012), in which the gun a prohibited person was charged with illegally possessing was was not even in his hands but was merely present in the place in which he lived and not secured against the prohibited person's access. That supported both the prohibited person's conviction for unlawful possession of a gun and the indictment of his cohabitant. From the opinion (at pg. 593, emphasis added):

Quote:

...on June 6, 2008, a valid search warrant (the “search warrant”) was executed on the couple‟s Clarion County home. Agents seized an SKS, Interordnance M59/66 rifle (“SKS rifle”) from an upstairs bedroom.

Although Huet is legally permitted to possess a firearm, Hall was convicted in 1999 of possessing an unregistered firearm, in violation of 26 U.S.C. § 5861(d), and is therefore prohibited from owning or possessing a firearm. After being informed of the raid, Huet allegedly told investigators that the guns in the house belonged to her and that it was not illegal for her to purchase weapons. Despite Huet‟s assertions that she alone possessed the SKS rifle, the Government sought and obtained an indictment charging Hall with illegal possession of the weapon, and Huet with aiding and abetting Hall‟s possession....

So the gun Hall, a convicted felon, was indicted for unlawfully possessing, belonged to his cohabitant, Huet. It appears to have been undisputed that Huet could lawfully possess firearms. Nonetheless, she was indicted for aiding and abetting Hall's unlawful possession of gun because Huet's gun wasn't secured against access by Hall.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gryff

...I take a lot of foreign co-workers shooting when they come over for work projects.

Which means you could be prosecuted for aiding and abetting the unlawful possession of a gun by a prohibited person. See 18 USC 2:

Quote:

(a) Whoever commits an offense against the United States or aids, abets, counsels, commands, induces or procures its commission, is punishable as a principal.

(b) Whoever willfully causes an act to be done which if directly performed by him or another would be an offense against the United States, is punishable as a principal.

__________________
"It is long been a principle of ours that one is no more armed because he has possession of a firearm than he is a musician because he owns a piano. There is no point in having a gun if you are not capable of using it skillfully." -- Jeff Cooper

Clearly, felons can't possess and that means they can't handle a gun or a bullet, and obviously can't go to shooting ranges.

Unless someone can show me that there's a totally different definition of "possession" for tourists, it seems like tourists (lacking a hunting permit or some other very unusual exceptions) are just as much banned from shooting (or even handling guns) as felons are. It may be that there's a practice of non-enforcement of this situation, but if that's what the law says, I won't rely on the indulgence of our judicial system.

I won't take non-resident aliens shooting anymore unless I make sure to get them a hunting permit first.

How can shooting ranges allow tourist groups in? I'm quite sure that shooting ranges have insurance which must enforce some policies on them, including complying with federal law? Confused... unless there's some aspect of the law I'm not understanding.

Clearly, felons can't possess and that means they can't handle a gun or a bullet, and obviously can't go to shooting ranges.

Unless someone can show me that there's a totally different definition of "possession" for tourists, it seems like tourists (lacking a hunting permit or some other very unusual exceptions) are just as much banned from shooting (or even handling guns) as felons are. It may be that there's a practice of non-enforcement of this situation, but if that's what the law says, I won't rely on the indulgence of our judicial system.

I won't take non-resident aliens shooting anymore unless I make sure to get them a hunting permit first.

How can shooting ranges allow tourist groups in? I'm quite sure that shooting ranges have insurance which must enforce some policies on them, including complying with federal law? Confused... unless there's some aspect of the law I'm not understanding.

Just out of curiosity, if range in CA accepts Florida's "Nonresident 10-Day Hunting $46.50"
or one day California non-resident license?

....Unless someone can show me that there's a totally different definition of "possession" for tourists, it seems like tourists (lacking a hunting permit or some other very unusual exceptions) are just as much banned from shooting (or even handling guns) as felons are....

In fact foreign visitors on nonimmigrant visas are included in the same list (18 USC 922(g)) of prohibited persons as felons, unlawful users of controlled substances (e. g., any user of marijuana), and persons convicted of crimes of domestic violence.

Quote:

Originally Posted by CCWFacts

....How can shooting ranges allow tourist groups in? I'm quite sure that shooting ranges have insurance which must enforce some policies on them, including complying with federal law? Confused... unless there's some aspect of the law I'm not understanding.

Assuming this is still going on to any great extent (and while I remember it being common here in the Bay Area it pretty much stopped when the law was amended to what it is today), federal prosecutors have apparently chosen not to vigorously pursue prosecution. There's a principle in the law called "prosecutorial discretion", and a prosecutor can pretty much decide not to use his limited resources to prosecute certain offenses or certain offenses under certain conditions. And of course it's all a matter of his discretion, so he can change his mind at any time.

__________________
"It is long been a principle of ours that one is no more armed because he has possession of a firearm than he is a musician because he owns a piano. There is no point in having a gun if you are not capable of using it skillfully." -- Jeff Cooper

You're in the East Bay right? I've taken my non-citizen friend and girlfriend to target Masters west before. They just need a licence or a passport I believe. On top of signing a waiver and all that stuff of course. Just try to call a few places up and see which ones might let you take your friends shooting.

I've taken foreign tourists to shooting ranges before. No problems. One was Swiss. Another German. Another Japanese. And another Mexican. Ranges were here in CA, Atlanta, and Detroit. They showed their passports for ID and that's all there was to it.

Two Saudi Arabian nationals have been arrested and a third is wanted for illegally renting firearms and purchasing ammunition at a shooting range in Poway.
Saad Mutlak Alsahli, Muath Ahmed Alraqibah and Abdulrahman Abdullah Alolaymi rented a Sig Sauer 9mm pistol and a Bravo .223 caliber rifle and bought 100 rounds of .223 caliber ammunition and 50 rounds of 9mm ammunition at the Poway Weapons and Gear gun range for target practice, according to a Southern District of California court complaint.
...

The men are in the county on F-1 non-immigrant student visas. Under that visa, they are not allowed to possess firearms and ammunition without a valid permit. State records show none of the men had any permit for the firearms, the complaint says.

We have a coworker from another country, we told him about taking him to the range only to be let down. We were told unless he has a green card or hunters license he couldnt shoot.

18 usc 922 g 5 b and 922 y 2 27 cfr 478.11 478.32

BS or what!!

Not BS. It's federal law. See 18 USC 922(g)(5):

Quote:

(g) It shall be unlawful for any person—

(1) …

(2) …

(3) …

(4) …

(5) who, being an alien—

(A) is illegally or unlawfully in the United States; or

(B) except as provided in subsection (y)(2), has been admitted to the United States under a nonimmigrant visa (as that term is defined in section 101(a)(26) of the Immigration and Nationality Act (8 U.S.C. 1101 (a)(26)));

(6) …

(7) …

(8) …

(9) …

to ship or transport in interstate or foreign commerce, or possess in or affecting commerce, any firearm or ammunition; or to receive any firearm or ammunition which has been shipped or transported in interstate or foreign commerce.

and 18 USC 922(y):

Quote:

(y) Provisions Relating to Aliens Admitted Under Nonimmigrant Visas.—

(1) Definitions.— In this subsection—

(A) the term “alien” has the same meaning as in section 101(a)(3) of the Immigration and Nationality Act (8 U.S.C. 1101 (a)(3)); and

(B) the term “nonimmigrant visa” has the same meaning as in section 101(a)(26) of the Immigration and Nationality Act (8 U.S.C. 1101 (a)(26)).

(2) Exceptions.— Subsections (d)(5)(B), (g)(5)(B), and (s)(3)(B)(v)(II) do not apply to any alien who has been lawfully admitted to the United States under a nonimmigrant visa, if that alien is—

(A) admitted to the United States for lawful hunting or sporting purposes or is in possession of a hunting license or permit lawfully issued in the United States;

(B) an official representative of a foreign government who is—

(i) accredited to the United States Government or the Government’s mission to an international organization having its headquarters in the United States; or

(ii) en route to or from another country to which that alien is accredited;

(C) an official of a foreign government or a distinguished foreign visitor who has been so designated by the Department of State; or

(D) a foreign law enforcement officer of a friendly foreign government entering the United States on official law enforcement business.

__________________
"It is long been a principle of ours that one is no more armed because he has possession of a firearm than he is a musician because he owns a piano. There is no point in having a gun if you are not capable of using it skillfully." -- Jeff Cooper

The law is what it is. If someone has been doing things which are illegal and hasn't gotten into trouble, it doesn't change what the law is. It only means he hasn't been caught yet. And that's no guarantee that he won't be caught and prosecuted in the future.

Whenever someone commits a crime he is betting his freedom, fortune, and future on not getting caught. The prisons are full of people who didn't think they'd get caught.

If someone understands what the law is and chooses to violate it anyway, getting caught will be his problem and his family's problem. But at least it won't be my problem.

Just for reference, the penalty for being a prohibited person in possession of a gun or ammunition is a fine and/or up to ten years in federal prison. The penalty for aiding and abetting would be the same. And of course since it's a felony the penalty includes a lifetime loss of gun rights.

__________________
"It is long been a principle of ours that one is no more armed because he has possession of a firearm than he is a musician because he owns a piano. There is no point in having a gun if you are not capable of using it skillfully." -- Jeff Cooper

How do those ranges in Vegas allow all those foreign Asians to shoot when they come there on vacation?

Again, the law is what it is, and I have no idea. Maybe they have a side business selling hunting licenses.

__________________
"It is long been a principle of ours that one is no more armed because he has possession of a firearm than he is a musician because he owns a piano. There is no point in having a gun if you are not capable of using it skillfully." -- Jeff Cooper

I've taken foreign nationals shooting plenty of times no problem.
Some photo id is all they needed IIRC - even foreign DL.

Congratulations on your confession of committing the federal crime of aiding and abetting the unlawful possession of a gun or ammunition by a prohibited person.

__________________
"It is long been a principle of ours that one is no more armed because he has possession of a firearm than he is a musician because he owns a piano. There is no point in having a gun if you are not capable of using it skillfully." -- Jeff Cooper