"This place", if I may say, was not in "need" of some "order". It was never about that, because we've always been quite happy to just go along, doing our own thing, as we always have been - and there has *never* been a problem in the galaxy with that. Well, not until lately, anyway, it seems....and that in itself is something hardly fathomable, or indeed, palatable for that matter. I daresay that what we need here is simply to be left alone....to be allowed to do our thing, without fear of being targeted, slammed down, or otherwise made to feel that we have somehow committed some eggregious, grievous error - simply by trying to have a conversation, and in venting a little to others of like mind and perspectives. What we need, in other words, is what we have always needed here....peace, and security, and to be able to trust that we're not going to be made to feel like the bad guy, the guilty party in any particular scenario - when *we* simply are not. We just *aren't*.

I am quite sure, of course, that it is realized that once we were through venting a little, once we had satisfactorily resolved it - gotten it out of our systems, one might say - then we moved on to other things, and not a whisper or whit of trouble was ever heard. This is, after all, the way that conversations go....they are inherently fluid, following their own natural path. That's what we've always done, because that is the nature of things here....one topic branches into another, something that one person says stimulates conversation in an entirely different direction....one moment we may feel the need to express, to vent, about certain things - but you will notice that we *never* attack anyone personally....we're not going around flaming anyone. We never have. To vent, expressing emotion to others who sympathize, and are of similar bent or perspective - this is not flaming, nor is it attacking, nor is it anything reprehensible or reproachable.

It is simply conversing, human contact, discussion as everyone else does it on the boards - what we do here is what's done elsewhere - and I simply fail to see how anything that we have said or done is such a grievous, insulting error. *We*, after all, have never been the problem thread, or otherwise proven ourselves to be insulting, disruptive, negative users who must apparently be rebuked and "shown the way"....*surely* no one is saying that. Because to say it would be coming across as very hurtful would be understating the case....I am sure.

What we need, finally, is what everyone here needs - to be treated fairly, in an even-handed, above-board, tolerant, understanding manner....*not* to be made to feel as though we must be targeted and solely made out to be the villain of the piece, as the saying goes. What we need is to be *trusted*. We were before, and there is absolutely no reason why we cannot be again. We deserve better than this....that is the level, sincere, honest, heartfelt truth. We deserve better than this present unsettling, hurtful treatment....in our situation, anyone would.

We are not, nor have we ever been, the bad guys here. We should not be treated as though we are.

Well, actually, Buffy's last season on UPN was, I thought, *very* good....excellent, in fact! For sure James Marsters did fantastically with Insane/Loony Spike....it was quite wrenching to see just how much he was willing to sacrifice in order to be the man that Buffy wanted, the one that she could finally, truly love....he gave everything, for her....went to hell and back again, suffered so much - was willing to put himself through all that torture and misery, just for her. Just to be a man, a good man worthy of love, for her. He was so completely devoted to her, worshipful of her - he'd do anything, including and not limited to everything, just for her....out of love and sworn devotion. Sounds familiar, eh?

I remember....in watching the seventh season, I was always on the proverbial edge of my seat....sometimes with hands in front of my face....sometimes flinching back on the couch, going, "Eeeek! No! No!"....hey, it would've been nothing if not entertaining for someone to be watching me at the time, or so I'm told. But, really, when one gets into the action, the angst, the drama and the emotion so darn much - well, what else can you do, how else can you be, really?

I had some problems with Buffy's seventh season. I didn't like all those speeches Buffy had to give and there were too many of those potential slayers running around that took too much time away from the regulars.

Well...first of all he's gorgeous!!! I mean, especially as tan Anakin coming from Tattooine...that golden skin....mmmmm....

IÂ´m so sorry to disappoint you dear, but I was lucky enough to meet the Man Himself in a movie premiere here in Spain and I can assure heÂ´s one of the whitest people IÂ´ve seen in my life.
Handsome? YES
Gorgeous? OH YES!!
Tall? quite
Eyes? OMG!!
Hands? big beautiful hands (and when I say big I mean BIG)
Clothes? black jacket, black trousers, black coat
Is he nice? He is lovely, and really shy whith the fans. He looked really surprised we were waiting for him outside the theatre. But what else could we do?lol
Tanned? not a bit dear

I think one of my fave speeches of hers in the seventh season was when she was talking about the First Evil, and how it was rising with the intent to devour them all....it was like this great gaping maw, hungering for them all, for her....and what she said was, "It'll choke on me!" - and the way she delivered that line....tense, powerful, ferocious....showing real, indomitable will....definitely a great moment, for sure - gives one the real sense that the battle was truly joined, that it was just *so* "on", at that moment!

Hayden has the most beautiful blue eyes that just draw me to them. His smile is warm and friendly. He has a shyness about his looks that is very attractive. He is not assuming. During each interview or encounter with others, I have heard respectful input and purity.
Hayden is boyish but gentlemanly. He is also the type I married and looks like my hubby when young minus the mustache. He just has a magnetism that draws you to him. I know he is the Canadian pale but the smile and warmth are just irresistable. Lucky girl to have met him in Spain . I hope I get a chance at C3 just to tell him how much I appreciate his down to earth way in spite of his status. He truly practices what he preaches.

He can pull of looking/acting young and impulsive at times (and a bit whiny..."its all obi wan's fault", "Its not fair", etc...), while still being amazingly gifted and mature at others, he can look all innocent and jedi-like, and then lusty and intimidating, and then radiate power/peace.

And those eyes......

long ago, i made a list describing hayden's glare (the one he gives Padme quite often)..here we go:

I was talking to my friend today, (we were discussing the quality of the movies and why he updated them)
I said that if they are the way GL wanted them to be, they are perfect. Every single viewer could despise them, but as long as they were the way he wanted, they would be perfect.

he (the flanneled one) said that when he originally made them, there werent the effects that are available now, but he envisioned his movies with effects ahead of his time... now that these effects are available, he can touch up HIS movies (key word: "HIS") to be the way he always wanted.

darththunderbird -- Great description of his eyes there!!! Yes, I would use ALL those adjectives as well!!

And you are right... good point made about the movies being GL's.

qingauk -- Hayden really does "practice what he preaches"!! He's just so very "real"...I think that quality above any other is what attracks people to him. We can all rest assured that he will never go all "Hollywood" on us!

He's just like the boy next door...the ones I always fell for in high school When my hubby was younger he looked a lot like Hayden in Episode II...tall and tan and skinny, same chiseled face and same hair almost!! Hehe!

Wow!! Sounds like we are all attracted to the same type of man!!

The_Nameless_One -- Gotcha

Qui_Dawn -- Yes!!! I too loved that speech from Season 7!!! That was awesome!!! And I did love Spike in Season 7...that was probably my favorite season for him, that and Season 2 with Drusilla .

waheennay -- Season 7 was a hard one to swallow because it was so different from the others. There were a lot of good things and some bad things about it, but overall, I think that it just went along with the evolution of the show, IMHO.

chirimoya -- Yes, thank you, I DID already know that Hayden, in real life, is VERY white, but I really like him as tan Anakin!!! But white works for me too! You are sooooo lucky to have seen him in person. We are all hoping for that at C3!!

Oh, and stacysatrip -- I totally agree with you about Season 2. Totally cried my eyes out at the end of that one especially when it's silent all of the sudden and then that song by Sarah McLachlan "Full of Grace" comes on...waa haaaa haaaa . That and the end of Season 5...the music there also, when she is jumping off the tower, gets me every time !!! She is just always having to sacrifice so much...it's so poignant.

And great parallel between Angel and Buffy and our favorite couple!! I do believe Padme will emulate those same qualities in EpIII

It obvious Lucas is enjoying himself with the prequels far more than the first three he made - there's not the same stress at all.
And then there's all the unused ideas being realized at last - just look at Mos Espa from Episode I, and you know that that's how he meant an Outer Rim spaceport to really be like - far more bustle and life than his first attempt in A New Hope.

Then there are also smaller things, like the flying whales on Kamino - ideas that he jotted down, then discarded because of time, money or lack of proper effects.
Actually, the flying whale is a great example of George's excitement and love for the new films - the whale has no purpose whatsoever - he simply included an idea he'd always liked, just because he had the ability to do so.
And that's what makes the prequels seem so full of life and creativity - Lucas now has no constraints on what he can imagine and put onto the screen - I only wish he had had this technology available for the first three

chirimoya -- Yes, thank you, I DID already know that Hayden, in real life, is VERY white, but I really like him as tan Anakin!!! But white works for me too! You are sooooo lucky to have seen him in person. We are all hoping for that at C3!!

Good luck with that, the man is certainly worth the watch.
Have you all a wonderful C3. And may the luck be with you.

Looks at chirimoya with total envy. I've seen Hayden in person twice but have never actually met him. You are so lucky!

To answer jediES's question, for me it's that he's an immensely-talented and dedicated actor, he's absolutely the perfect guy to be Anakin, and sure, he's easy on the eyes. But I'm impressed with him as a person too and I can't say that about very many people in Hollywood (I tend to have a low opinion of a lot of showbiz types). I'm especially impressed that he's willing to enter the lion's den twice (at Celebration and at Comic Con) and talk to the fans, when he doesn't really have to. Believe me, I couldn't have been that poised especially when you're confronted with morons and rude jerks.

Mmmm, yes....nobody does Canadian pale better than Hayden, that's for sure. He, I think, is what will make Canadian Pale the sexiest standard in the world....quite possibly. Yum, and I do so love where my thoughts are right now.... *dreamy happy sigh*

Oh, and mentioning the very timely parallells between Buffy and Angel, and Padme and Anakin....it's all the more interesting to consider just how much faith Buffy *did* have in Angel - and even when he turned back into the ol' evil Angelus, Buffy was obviously trying so hard to distance herself from him....to *stop* loving him....but of course, she couldn't ever truly shut down those emotions, nor could she pretend that to lose him that way didn't hurt and grieve her so terribly....because, of course, it *did*. And it's because she still loved him so and yet somehow had hope for him that to see him turn did pain her so heartbreakingly. She loved him, thus in the end it hurt her so....when you feel so fiercely, wildly passionate about someone....the currents of emotions do, indeed, run just that deep and strongly still.

And of course....even when he was at his most evil, and going after her friends right, left and centre - she was clearly trying to hate him, or at least, resign herself to the fact that he was irredeemably, irretrievably evil, lost to her, and hence that she'd have to destroy him herself, sooner or later....she kept trying to convinc herself of that, since it's what everyone else kept telling her - but it is, of course, far easier to convince the head of something, even when the heart simply refuses to believe it. And yet....that unswerving, desperate, to-the-very-bitter-end faith she still somehow had in him....in *her* true love, Angel as she knew and remembered him....that unswerving, total faith and devotion, such love, is the very same hope and surety as that of Padme....and of Luke....for Anakin. It's the faith in those we love most of all, our intrinsic belief that they are good and worthy, loving and loved in turn....because we see and feel their true selves - we *know* the truth of their hearts!

I daresay that what we need here is simply to be left alone....to be allowed to do our thing, without fear of being targeted, slammed down, or otherwise made to feel that we have somehow committed some eggregious, grievous error - simply by trying to have a conversation, and in venting a little to others of like mind and perspectives.

a) I don't "target" anyone. I mod the SWC and TPM, this thread is a part of that.
b) This "venting" as you call it, has never and will never be allowed when it involves "fan-bashing". I know you will never accept that "fan-bashing" is bad, but be that as it may, it is a violation of the rules. And it will always be against the rules. Look, I don't let people in the Basher Sanctuary say things like "Those PT fans are just blind sheep who'll buy anything GL says", so what on Earth makes you think I'm going to let people come in here and say things like "bashers are just whiney fanboys who need to get a life"? I will never allow such types of posts to be made in either thread. I have warned/edited/banned people from both threads (and elsewhere) for such things and will continue to do so as necessary.

one moment we may feel the need to express, to vent, about certain things - but you will notice that we *never* attack anyone personally....

Names don't have to be named for it to be flamed baiting (see my two examples above).

....*not* to be made to feel as though we must be targeted and solely made out to be the villain of the piece, as the saying goes. What we need is to be *trusted*. We were before, and there is absolutely no reason why we cannot be again.

The Great Eye has always been here. If you do not see me issuing public warnings, that means there's nothing to warn about. If I do, then there is. It's that simple. There is nothing new going on here. I am modding as I have for the past seven months. I think this is a good thread and have enjoyed it in the past and will undoubtedly do so in the future. Frankly, I think this argument is weighing down the thread and I don't know why a big deal is being made here. I politely asked for fan-bashing to be avoid, it was avoid, and no one got in trouble. There are tons of other fun topics we could have here other than complain about my modding, which can be taken to PMs or to Comms.

See how happy he is? What's not to love? Now, yes, I know there's the whole Death Star incident, and the wiping out the Jedi does look bad and all, but honestly, you can't expect a person to run a whole massive empire and not make a couple of mistakes.

My gut says no, this is not OK, but maybe you could PM me some examples just to see if we're in the same page.

I don't really have the time to look around or think something up at this time. I just wanted to throw that out there because there is in fandom, as I'm sure you know, a great many controversies that could be discussed rationally without attacking any other poster, person, or group. Unfortunately, those issues either never have a venue to discuss them or they become fights between groups of fans.

But I can see your side and how you want to keep the peace around here.

Well, when modding, I always ask myself "what would Palpatine do?"

Boy, I'm feeling like a Bothan right now...

Qui-Dawn

I meant TFN in general -- not this thread.

Ladies on the Boards

Thanks for the comments about Hayden. I was just
curious.

Let me ask a follow-up question: Does your opinion of Hayden have anything to do with him playing Anakin in the PT? Basically, would you hold the same opinion of him if he wasn't Anakin, but rather an actor doing Indie films?

See how happy he is? What's not to love? Now, yes, I know there's the whole Death Star incident, and the wiping out the Jedi does look bad and all, but honestly, you can't expect a person to run a whole massive empire and not make a couple of mistakes.

See how happy he is? What's not to love? Now, yes, I know there's the whole Death Star incident, and the wiping out the Jedi does look bad and all, but honestly, you can't expect a person to run a whole massive empire and not make a couple of mistakes.

Thanks everyone for the support! I have made my peace in that thread and moved on.

And Stryphe is right. Believe me, I know first hand how hard it is to be the bigger person when others are being extremely close-minded and rude. It sucks, but that's what we really need to be. It's great to vent, but better to do so in PM etc. Just come here and ask for a little cyber-hug or help in pleading our case.

To answer a much earlier question, most of the Buffy episodes with SW references involve Andrew and happen in Seasons 6 & 7 (though there are certainly some before then). On FX now they've just begun Season 6. I'd say I'm most fond of Seasons 4-6, beginning with everyone having their voices stolen (AMAZING episode) and going to bad, scary, Darth Rosenburg. Man, that episode where Buffy's mom dies should have won the Emmy. It wasn't even nominated because of some submission deadline mix-up.

And I suppose I'll throw in my 2 cents about Hayden... but where to begin? He was the absolute perfect choice for Anakin. I remember the web documentary about him during Episode II. The casting director summed him up perfectly. He has the amazing ability to, in equal measure, look both innocent and dangerous. They ebb and flow, the balance constantly changes. He is able to turn from simple boyish charm to startling intensity in an instant. And both characteristics live within the other. He is both the student Padawan, but old enough to be married and a father. Maybe it's because Hayden is my own age, but he just makes me nervous... jittery... like around a guy I like at school. I know other guys his age and it makes Anakin so much more real to me. It just makes him perfect as Anakin. Hayden's got this thing down to a science. For some reason he's attached to flawed boyish characters... Anakin, Sam in LAAH, Stephen Glass, Scott in HG...

Ok, sidebar... Ewan is on Leno right now and he is just adorable!! I can't get over it. It's very strange to see him without the beard, he looks about 10-15 years younger, LOL.

Anyway, back to Hayden. He seems to work really, really hard on SW. He's great with the fans, and we can get pretty insane. Nick always talks about how amazing he is with his saber. Hayden has said that he watched the OT over and over because he wanted to get Vader exactly right. He's really thought about this. I think he truly understands Anakin, who is so enigmatic. Even we have a hard time understanding him sometimes. He's really made Anakin his own. And yes, his looks do play a part in this, but it's not in a wow, he's so hawt! kind of way. It's a means to an end. Anakin is supposed to be attractive all the way around. He's a hero, it makes him more likable. And it becomes even more tragic when he falls... so much potential is lost.

And about Hayden as an actor. I don't know how many of us would have taken notice (as soon) without SW, since that's what really broke him. But I have been continually impressed with the quality of his work. He chooses projects he really believes in, that will make him grow as an actor. Though he's in that key age bracket, early twenties, he has never taken the easy "teen" movie way out. He has, and I say this w/o prejudice, some of the most potential of any actor his age. And although he is undeniably attractive he has never exploited his looks. But yet he's secure enough in them to do fashion modeling in magazines. And from all accounts he's just a really nice guy.

Ohhh, Rebelscum, darlin'....everything you've said about Hayden....I love you, I absolutely *love* you for that, truly!....promise that you won't ever go anywhere, okay? We need you right here.... Such delightful and truly heartening, thrilling things to say....you really have given me such a lovely, warm, purry delicious feeling here....very pleasurable, to be sure. And by all means, yes, please do keep going with it....don't you ever go anywheres else, now - promise!

Oh, and I totally agree with you about seeing Ewan, sans beard, on Leno tonight....man, he's just so entirely *young*, it's amazing! And, of course, the guy's just the most hilariously frank, sharp, wonderfully entertaining guest around....he's just so completely *real*, you know....and, of course, his stories about - well, everyone who saw the show tonight, you know what it was all about, natch - absolutely, insanely, rollickingly *hilarious*....man, he's just so refreshing, and he doesn't shy away from anything....no topic of conversation is off-limits, far as he's concerned! And clearly, we could all be learning a lesson from him there.... </hint like broad side of barn>

I will say, though....and this would be for Ewan's benefit as well, just to reassure him....that not everyone in Canada drives as badly as drivers just outside of Calgary obviously do. Really, the rest of us are much more responsible....they just happened to catch apparently the youngest driver in the whole darn country, is all. *chuckles wryly* Still, what does it all make for, though, really....if not one incredible adventure, you know....the whole Long Way Round.

Dawn. (who would one day love just to sit down at a pub, have a drink, and just chat some with Ewan.....just for its own sake, 'cause you know, he's just so entertaining, cutting, incisive, and just plain fantabulous! *tee hee* There have always been a few rough-and-tumble-by-reputation actors like that, though, I've figured....Colin Farrell is one, Russell Crowe, another....I dunno, I guess it's just the fact that they're rather more genuine, roughly, vividly honest....no pretenses, indeed....and that in itself is surely an attractive trait - though in this group, well, there's no question that Ewan wears it best of anyone!)

He has the amazing ability to, in equal measure, look both innocent and dangerous. They ebb and flow, the balance constantly changes. He is able to turn from simple boyish charm to startling intensity in an instant. And both characteristics live within the other. He is both the student Padawan, but old enough to be married and a father. Maybe it's because Hayden is my own age, but he just makes me nervous... jittery... like around a guy I like at school. I know other guys his age and it makes Anakin so much more real to me.

You said it perfectly, RebelScum77
He does have that ability to portray two opposing personality traits at the same time...within the same soul. I, too, read that he studied the OT and TPM to get Anakin/Vader right...and he did get it right, for certian!! He really brings the innocence of TPM Anakin and the darkness of Vader into a beautiful marriage of light and dark.

Haha...this is a little funny...
The first time I saw AOTC I thought that Hayden was speaking really wierd (not the way that I had heard him speak in interviews, etc.)...it seemed to me that there was this wierd inflection in his voice or something, it was the way he formed his words and such. Then I read that he had studied JEJ's Vader voice as well as Jake Lloyd's to create a distinct way of speaking for himself that would connect the two voices and help bridge the gap even better. And then I could really hear it when I saw the movie again after I read that....he's sooo good!! (And I think some people might have mistook this for, what they say was "wooden".)

He REALLY does do his homework!! It's very comforting that he is sooo into his work... we are in good hands for EPIII!

...oh, how that man cracks me up!!! He is soo laid back and open and even though he can talk about "anything" I don't think anyone could ever feel uncomfortable around him. (Before I saw the show, somehow when I pictured what he was going to say and be like, the first thing that came to mind was him sipping water out of the "Tonight Show" mug!! And that's the first thing he did before he even said a word!! Teehee!! I think I have seen him in waaaaayyyy too many interviews He likes water... )

"Yeah, so we spent 24 hrs in the dark on a train...it was fantastic actually!"

"You know, it's not the size of the testicle that counts".

Okay...on a different note, but not one uncommon lately...

I just watched the "All the Way" episode from season 6 of Buffy and you gotta love this part....

Willow and Tara are walking into the Bronze and there is this Halloween costume party going on. People are dancing to some live band music and they walk by this one couple that are dressed as Luke and Leia and are dancing pretty suggestively...the guy even has a light saber in one hand in the midst of this.