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OHGOD I was looking at prestige classes before and forgot this wasn't Prestige. In any case, my point still stands for the proud Paladin, who my buddy Ramon has crossed with Favored Soul so many times I've stopped counting. In any case, this almost makes me want to play something besides a barbarian. Almost. You did an excellent job of taking him and beefing him up to account for everything he gets for standing on a razor's edge in vow-format. The Pragmatic isn't too shabby either.

OHGOD I was looking at prestige classes before and forgot this wasn't Prestige. In any case, my point still stands for the proud Paladin, who my buddy Ramon has crossed with Favored Soul so many times I've stopped counting. In any case, this almost makes me want to play something besides a barbarian. Almost. You did an excellent job of taking him and beefing him up to account for everything he gets for standing on a razor's edge in vow-format. The Pragmatic isn't too shabby either.

Well, if you haven't looked at it in the past... *checks watch*
19 minutes, I'd advise you do so. I beefed it up even more, and made it... actually rather barbarian-esque.

Yes, I can see it has that rather powerful streak to it; it's never quite a barbarian, though - which is why I've always gone barbarian/cleric if I ever multiclassed in that direction, and not paladin - vows and super-goodness and potential falls have never been my shtick.

I might also recommend adopting a subjective vow system; that is, individual paladins, religions, and/or paladin orders may have their own Vows, which might be further modified by oaths to one's party, nation, or even enemy.

Originally Posted by Chilingsworth

Wow! Not only was that awesome, I think I actually kinda understand Archeron now. If all the "intermediate" outer planes got that kind of treatment, I doubt there would be anywhere near as many critics of their utility.

I might also recommend adopting a subjective vow system; that is, individual paladins, religions, and/or paladin orders may have their own Vows, which might be further modified by oaths to one's party, nation, or even enemy.

It's a lot better than "Moral idealism or bust" in most games anyway :p It does tend to emphasize Law over Good, but since you'll get six different answers to the Good question from only five DMs, I see no issue with this.

Originally Posted by Chilingsworth

Wow! Not only was that awesome, I think I actually kinda understand Archeron now. If all the "intermediate" outer planes got that kind of treatment, I doubt there would be anywhere near as many critics of their utility.

I really like this-there are maybe three things I DON'T like.
I like alternate alignment paladins. It wouldn't take MUCH adjustment for me or a DM to modify. but hey.
No Order's Wrath/Holy Smite on the spell list?
And I don't like what you did with the Special Mount. I like that they get a Special Mount.

Other than that, aaaawesome work.

Originally Posted by Lord_Gareth

You'll get six different answers to the Good question from only five DMs.

Wow! Not only was that awesome, I think I actually kinda understand Archeron now. If all the "intermediate" outer planes got that kind of treatment, I doubt there would be anywhere near as many critics of their utility.

Yeah, I'm working on those... but suffice it to say, they're going to be very different.

Would you mind not calling them paladins at all? Something that always bugged me, the original concept of paladin is a champion of righteouness, honor and justice (the concept not whatever they actualy were). Heck, they aren't even suposed to be specific god servants like many people seem to support. Nongood "Paladins" always left a bad taste in my mouth. It's like saying nonmagical wizard. Or pacifist fighter.

So if not too much please call them Blackguard or Rebeller or something other than paladin. That word has been raped enough already in my opinion.

Would you mind not calling them paladins at all? Something that always bugged me, the original concept of paladin is a champion of righteouness, honor and justice (the concept not whatever they actualy were). Heck, they aren't even suposed to be specific god servants like many people seem to support. Nongood "Paladins" always left a bad taste in my mouth. It's like saying nonmagical wizard. Or pacifist fighter.

So if not too much please call them Blackguard or Rebeller or something other than paladin. That word has been raped enough already in my opinion.

Mind? I don't intend to call it a paladin at all! Bleah. Really. Anyways, I'm going to make a CN alignment-champion tentatively called an anarchist (though suggestions for better names would be much appreciated. I'm looking at you, Lix Lorn), which will be a more glass cannon version, with some nifty little chaotic abilities (such as shatter at-will), and a NE one called the Vis Veris Vesica, which will be just fun, with both invocations and spontaneous spellcasting off of the whole sorc/wiz list, just very low level spells and very few spells/day (like, few as in 3.) Essentially the opposite of batman: instead of being able to overcome any challenge so long as he has time to prepare, this one will just always be prepared.

I've never liked the idea of chaotic version of Paladins. Never really sat with me, and kind of defeats the purpose - then again, that's just my silly opinion; but what do I know? I'm just a dire bear with a medical degree.

I've never liked the idea of chaotic version of Paladins. Never really sat with me, and kind of defeats the purpose - then again, that's just my silly opinion; but what do I know? I'm just a dire bear with a medical degree.

It's not a chaotic version of a paladin. It's a class all to its own that happens to have the strict alignment requirement of CN, full BAB, and divine spellcasting.

Originally Posted by Lix Lorn

I like alternate alignment paladins. It wouldn't take MUCH adjustment for me or a DM to modify. but hey.

Originally Posted by Gorgondantess

Yeah, I'm working on those... but suffice it to say, they're going to be very different.

It's not a paladin. I want to make this very, very clear. I'm just posting it in the same thread because it's convenient.

The Freeblade?
Unfortunately, I can't think of anything better than Anarchist. XD

Meh, alright.

...message me the joke? Or use my email? I wanna know now. XD

Actually, it wasn't all that funny. I was being ironical, in that I realized that really the joke wasn't funny at all. Of course, you'll still want to know what the joke is, but I probably won't tell you, so that will be even more funny. For me.

You might be right. The only other class name I can think of that has Four or more syllables is the Barbarian, and that one is too ingrained to remove. Three syllables could be a good limit. I'll keep looking for something Interesting though.

EDIT: How about:
The Malcontent
The Dissenter
The Separatist
The Renegade