Hi Tory, First, thank you for your post and participation here. Everything you said is accurate and within the possibilities of this signature.

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Again, much gratitude for this thread. I am going be a doing a residential workshop next week so won't be able to participate during that time. With Pluto in the 7th, the "other" is the bottom line. With the 1st/7th house axis very basically it feels like "me" versus "them" and ultimately its learning that Source and the Divine can only be found "within" as oppossed to looking "outside" (the exhaustion of separating desires leading to a return to Source). Pluto in the 7th with the polarity point in the 1st, by nature there is a swinging back and forth from these two extremes (a real polarity) and the soul is learning through comparison in relationships to other and self, when the focus is intently on other, its all about pleasing the "other", putting the others needs first, living through the other's reactions and feedback, such is the denial of self. The evolutionary intent is connect with one's own instinctual inner guide, finding inner balance so that there may be an inner peace, without looking for it outside, without the need for the need for constant feedback from others, realising that everything we have been searching for, all strength and wisdom and peace is ultimately and only to be found within.

I realized I missed half of your post. So lesson for me to just quote the whole thing and not snippets of it.I'll respond to what I did not yet address:

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Hi Everyone,

I want to explore some ideas in a little more depth and get some feedback as to whether my thinking is correct....Even though the evolutionary intent for this individual's current life is to be found in the polarity point (1st house/Aries/Mars) and involves freedom, independence, special destiny, instinctual action aimed at developing one's ego is it not true that the bottom line is still relationship (7th house)? In other words the 7th house Pluto is where this individual holds two opposing desires....one is to merge with the absolute and the other is to separate? The 7th house is still where the greatest potential for merging with source lies for this individual with where they are in their evolutionary cycle is it not? Previous to this life this individual has been working in the realm of relationship because before that they were focused on subjective self focused learning. From there they moved in to relationship with others in order to know themselves more objectively exploring a vast variety of relationships to move beyond themselves, to discover balance, to objectively understand where others are coming from, to listen, and to learn how to bring their own uniqueness in to relationship with another. Because relationship is the realm of greatest potential for uniting with source as well as the greatest area of insecurity, newness, etc. (they haven't yet learned to be good at it)....their insecurities have led to certain karmic limitations that now in this life they need to evolve beyond. The polarity point will help them do what they have to do to evolve....but their greatest juice is still in realm of relationship isn't it? There are many possibilities as far as the karmic limitations that they may be working on such as co-dependency, living through someone else's ego or being the alter ego for someone else, dominance, submission, projection, etc.....This person is extremely insecure about giving up whatever type of relationship they have because their greatest soul desire is to find the absolute through relationship.....Am I on the right track?

Also, does the personality structure of this individual that the soul has crafted in this life remain intact for the entire life

So it's this last part I did not address. The personality structure does shift relative to the nodal axis within the total ea paradigm in the chart - only as a reflection of the choice to evolve.

or is an individual personality capable of morphing beyond their initial soul desire in one lifetime to another (in this particular case from the 7th relationship focus to the 8th house issues)? Thanks!

No. The position of Pluto and its polarity point signifies the intended evolutionary development for the entire life. When the life ends, relative to desire nature of the soul, that will determine the kind of life that is created the next time around./b]

Thank you so much for all of your responses which I am finding very helpful! I want to respond to the comment you made about the ego and the first house with some further questions:

The evolutionary intent isn't about developing one's ego. The ego, which is symbolized by the Moon and it's lunar nodes, will always be a reflection of the soul's desires. 1st house isn't ego.

I understand that 1st house isn't ego but am finding some confusion around what is actually happening in the first house in relationship to the ego and what is often referred to in psychological language as ego building....I understand that in EA ego refers to the lens, the self identity, who we know ourselves to be (both conscious and unconscious?) and that the ego is the current life structure we have come in with that reflects our soul's desires and is found in the moon and the nodes and is also where our basic securities/insecurities lie? How do you describe what is happening in the first house as far as evolutionary intent and its relationship to the ego if the task of the first house is expanding or discovery of one's individual sense of self? I find it confusing to talk about because in psychological language that is often referred to as ego building or ego strengthening activity and I see that this can be misleading. In EA does the basic ego structure that the soul expresses through expand grow or change? Is 1st house Aires work merely uncovering the structure that is already there as opposed to building something new? Also is ego in EA used interchageably with personality?

Any clarifying thoughts or further insights would be greatly appreciated! Thank you so much!

I am finding all of your perspectives and learning to be very refreshing and invigorating, and would like to contribute some of my own thougts to get into the mix here. Thank you, Ari, for holding this space and guiding this discussion, I sense there is a lot of learning to be gained from the collective group gathering here.

I feel many aspects of a 7th house Pluto have already been touched upon, so I will attempt to express some of the most resonant aspects of the archetype developed with EA with my own experiences. One of the most bottom line aspects to me is the importance of a 7th house Pluto ultimately gaining the presence of coming into a relationship purely because of choosing to want that particular relationship as oppossed to feeling a need for that relationship. Some have already commented on the house trines to the 7th house, and another aspect for me that is important is the house squares, in particular in this context the 4th house square to the 7th house, or the Cancer to the Libra. Emotional security is a very important quality for 7th house Pluto people to develop, it is in fact the only way they can ultimately enter relationships purely out of a choice reflecting their highest good instead of entering out of an emotional need, at times even a compulsive desire to be needed and to have someone to focus upon and give of themselves toward.

As Ari mentioned, 7th house Plutos can be extreme and it does not necessarily mean they are good listeners or know how to be in relationship as an equal- there is a wide spectrum, but in all cases they are learning how to be an equal in relationship. learning to be a more effective listener and learning to give what the other person truly needs. Learning to give what the other truly needs is a very important aspect and has a wide range of development stages. One in particular that calls to me is learning when to not give, because many 7th house Plutos are very good at giving, and do know to some degree how to key in on what someone needs or the desires and natures of others. However, in some cases what another truly needs is to learn how to do things for themselves, get on their own feet through their own self work instead of relying on needing the 7th house Pluto person, going along with the movement to the Pluto polarity point. Learning when not to give so not to create a dependency for others upon themselves is an important lesson for 7th house Plutos, and as has been mentioned, some are used to being dominant and manipulative and encouraging this. In the first Pluto book JWG mentioned Richard Nixon as an example of this.

JWG also describes 7th house Plutos as embarking upon a new stage in their evolution, learning how to be more objective and be involved in socialization. The movement to the 1st house pluto polarity point is not about being alone or selfish or avoiding relationship. It is about learning to fulfill one's own needs, be capable of being alone and fulfilling oneself through being alone, instead of seeking out a relationship to meet one's needs. It is also about learning to find one's own sense of themselves, being able to find one's true individual path, through a process of being in many relationships with different people, at times being overly influenced by the opinions of others, at times influencing the opinions of others, but moving forward toward the polarity point would be finding the Libran balance through the Arian ability to come to a relationship from a whole sense of self without emotional insecurity needs getting into the mix. As well as being able to discern one's true individual path despite all of the influences swirling around through socialization, social networks, social media....being able to take care of one's individual needs and make choices in life from within instead of making choices or decisions based upon the opinion's of others, trying to be liked by others, or popular with others.....The more a 7th house Pluto can move toward the 1st house polarity point, the more they will be able to not create expectations and projections in their relationships based upon their emotional needs and wounds, and the more likely they can enter a relationship that will be mutually beneficial for helping each partner grow and progress forward in a more positive manner connected with each partner's individual path.

Indeed, 7th house Plutos are going to end up being drawn back into relationships over and over again. Sometimes they will be left by their partners and be hurt and feel needy, sometimes they may leave their partners and hurt their partners as a result. Sometimes when a 7th house Pluto is in a relationship that has become codependent and compulsive in its quality, with both individuals seemingly incapable of breaking out of the dynamic, crises will occur that basically direct the 7th house Pluto person to end the relationship, or the relationship may just be removed by outer events. As 7th house Pluto people evolve forward they can use their time apart from relationships to learn how to be alone, nurture themselves, experience deep reflection on what happened in the relationship and how their own needs contributed to the difficulty. Ultimately 7th house Pluto people are learning about themselves and their desires, including their separating desires, through their relationships and what is getting reflected back to them. To just go off by themselves out of relationship forever, would be like the spiritual seeker going off into the mountains or into isolation to meditate and gain all this wisdom, wisdom the seeker could soon find out isn't fully integrated once back into the socialized world with all of its difficulties again. 7th house Pluto people will be continually retesting their development through each new relationship and each new interaction with current relationships, in a constant process of gaining greater balance if they are evolving forward and learning how to listen more effectively and give what the other truly needs. When not evolving forward, 7th house Plutos could be dominant and manipulative in relationships through their ability to key in on the desires of others, or lost in a fog of not knowing their true sense of self through following along with the values and desires of others around them who seem to possess something they think they need, when in actuality the pluto polarity point suggests this power could be found within themselves. The movement toward the first house polarity point is also about taking responsibility for their self and how they have acted in relationships and contributed to the dynamic, instead of victimizing themselves or placing the blame on the other person, or trying to draw in a circle of outside support to make themselves feel better about themselves instead of doing the deeper harder work of changing behavior patterns. Again, it isn't that a 7th house person shouldn't have a circle of support or relationships, it is more about entering those circles with emotional security instead of feeling a need for them out of emotional insecurity. Throughout all of these relationships, 7th house pluto people are certainly creating a lot of karma with other individuals, some of which is unresolved. Oftentimes, 7th house pluto people will be interacting with other beings in their lifetime who they have known in previous incarnations and have unresolved karma with, or perhaps someone they had a very positive effect upon and is due for something positive in return.

Kora, I was thinking about the same thing today re the ego/personality. Traditional astrology refers to the 1st house (ascendant) as "the mask we wear" to show others. How we best adapt to our environment. Ari, how does EA describe the function of the ascending sign on the 1st house cusp? Thanks, Robin

Hi Emily, First, welcome to this message board and thank you for your participation in this thread. Everything you said is accurate for this signature.

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Hi All,

Here is my attempt - Pluto in the 7th indicates that a soul has been working on the on-going lesson of being in relationships in a balanced way. That they have not necessarily achieved this balance yet. They will then have unconscious memories and desires around unresolved past relationship dynamics. It seems that there may also be tension between compulsive feelings of needing to be in relationship and the desire to be independent as well (PPP 1st house)?

We wouldn't regard the polarity point itself as an equal desire to Pluto, however the need for independence, absolutely comes up for this soul on a cyclic basis. Pluto in any house position can signify the psychology of "entrapment". This is based on the reality that a soul can get incredibly lost to whatever it has desired to the point where it is then limited by that which it desired, which then catalyzes a compulsive need to purge/release from itself that which it has formed such a strong attachment towards. This also points to the famous "attraction repulsion" dynamic of Pluto.

So yes, in this case with a 7th house Pluto there can be periods of feeling limited, blocked, entrapped by other partners and thus the need to consciously not be in relationship at times on the basis of needing to integrate/purge/process the psychic material osmosed from other people and to come back to one's self. The key during such periods is to become more aware of the previously unconscious desires that lead to the experience of entrapment in the first place. The key is not to be reactive to the emotions of attraction (to be in a relationship) and repulsion (to get out of it) but to look at oneself.

I feel called to share something about polarities in general. It often looks like a soul is embracing it's polarity point (ie one day the 7th house Pluto soul who was otherwise submissive suddenly stands up for itself, starts acting out of anger towards its partner, and makes all these new demands in order to assert its needs) however its actions may just be a reaction to previously unconscious dynamics by way of going to the other extreme. In this case now seeking to dominate and not be controlled. Being alone, asserting oneself, saying "no" etc ate not innately an expression of a soul embracing the 1st house polarity point.

I understand that they will feel the compulsive need to be in relationship but If the person is coming in with all sorts of issues around relationships, I could see how one reaction might be to eschew relationships altogether out of fear – is this accurate?

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Yes as per above. I had to look up eschew btw. Thanks for introducing it to me!

The 7th house Pluto symbolizes the need to be whole within one-self so that one can meet others as an equal and give without expectations of their own unmet needs being met. In knowing that one can take care of oneself, they are no longer dependant on another. The lesson of the 7th house Pluto is to be who you are independent of relationships - the Polarity Point being the 1st house, it’s like the intention is birthing one's own identity as separate from any partner’s influence.

The 7th house Pluto will attract people in this life that will force them deal with these issues – reflecting where they are at within themselves. So they may experience very imbalanced relationships or a lack of relationships until they learn to relate to themselves in new ways.

Welcome to this message board and thank you for your participation here. Everything you have said is accurate for this signature.

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Pluto in the 7th House

Learning balance; learning balance; learning balance. I never really understood this (well, as far as I understand any of EA yet) until I began to see the integral part that the 1st House point plays in all of this; the intended balance of the individuality in a world of relationships. JG advises that the intent is not to control or be controlled (hopefully, that’s it in a very small nutshell), and to make sure that the partner (relationship of any sort) displays that balance as well.

If one could participate with others, one relationship at a time, this might be easier. However, from the time that one begins school, one is thrust into the world of encountering many egos and trying-on many people, while trying to remain equal in the connection. Too many relationships and too many viewpoints ill-perceived can create a lack of balance in the individual and therefore create a dependency on others. There could be a loss of individuality and therefore a dependency on others to take the lead in the relationship. Conversely, the 7th House Pluto can also become the dominant partner.

Through Venus, the 7th House Pluto individual visits the world of hearing/listening to others. This influence of this dynamic is huge, because as Deva Green advises, “ It is our inner dialogue that will condition how we listen to our partner.”

Thank you for bringing this up. This is a meaningful principle that Jeff Green has often taught about. As we know, Venus is the ruler of both Taurus (cultivating self reliance, inner relationship to self) and Libra (seeking to form relationships with that which we are not and growing/learning about ourselves via those relationships). The crisis, and this is reflected in the natural inconjunct (150 degrees) between Taurus and Libra, is when we make our partner the source of fulfilling our needs. The point is to recognize that our partner will always reflect back to us our inner relationship to ourselves and as you quoted Deva, our inner dialogue with ourselves will condition how we listen to the other. Thus the need is to cultivate a healthy self esteem, to listen to and honor our own needs as a bottom line, (inner relationship side of Venus - Taurus), which then allows for growth oriented relationships, and real listening (outer relationship side of Venus - Libra).

Hi Rita,First, welcome to this message board, and thank you for your participation here. Everything you have written here is accurate for the possibilities of this signature.

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Hi Ari,Thank you for this opportunity.

Hi All,

With Pluto in the seventh house the Souls greatest resistance to growth has been in the area of relationships.The Souls desire has been to be in as many relationships as possible so as to learn by listening to the values, opinions and needs of others and through these other, the Pluto person has learned its own needs, desires and values. Pluto 7th house has adopted other peoples realities, values, beliefs and has forgotten its own needs. By being the extension of their partner they have lost their ability to be themselves. They do not feel capable or secure enough to make their own decisions and to do things alone, by themselves.

Yes and also remember the possibility of such a soul being the "decision maker" in a relationship. I see you spoke to this later on...

This dependency to be in a relationship to feel complete, secure is going to eventually create an imbalance /unequal situation. These crisis will occur so as to give the Pluto person the opportunity to learn the lessons of objectivity, listening and learning when to give or not to give.

The 7th house Pluto will continue to resist not being in a relationship as this is where the security and familiarity is felt by the soul, the Soul will cyclically feel coexisting desires, one is to follow its desire and free itself and the other desire is to return to the Source, or God.

I don't understand what meant in that last sentence regarding the co-existing desires. So to make sure this is understood: 7th house Pluto can absolutely desire to not be in relationship on a cyclic basis. Being in one or not being in one is not in and of itself descriptive of the Pluto polarity point. IE being alone can easily be a reactive tendency to having gone too far in one extreme. The desire to return to Source is enacted by way of looking within oneself and making the choice to not make the same choices that sought security from other people.

These push, pull opposing desires are the force of evolution.This person has possibly been in relationships in which its own individuality was overshadowed by the partners needs, values, making the Pluto person an extension of the partner, this creates extreme situations in which the partner can become abusive or the 7th house Pluto be the abuser by having relationships with people that are vulnerable and weak, making them believe that they (other) cannot survive without the Pluto person.

The Pluto person by focusing on the polarity point Aries (Ist house) will learn that to be independent, have its own opinions, values, beliefs and follow its desires….does not threaten the relationship or make the Pluto person less secure. On the contrary by being in a relationship that is based on equality and balance, the Pluto person will have achieved the real polarity and evolutionary intent.

Hi Henrik, Thank you for your participation in this thread. Everything you have written is accurate for this signature - save for a couple clarifications below...

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Pluto in the 7th HouseThe soul has desired and set in motion a series of lives with the purpose of social interaction via personal relationships in order to understand one’s own individuality and to learn how to balance one’s own needs with that of others; how to give according to someone else’s need within a relationship without compromising one’s own individuality. In essence, to learn how to live as an equal in a relationship. There is also a natural trine to the 11th house and in the 7th house we learn how to be objective within relationships, in the 11th we learn how to be objective relative to society.

Thank you for sharing that perspective

In order to find out what other people think and need each personality has had to learn how to listen and how to relate. Coming into this life, validating oneself through relationships has become normalcy, and for most it is/has been an unconscious process (Pluto).

Ari ,correct me if I’m wrong, this process of seeking out relationships has been a natural development coming out of the Virgo archetype and as such hasn’t been a problem or something wrong by itself. The issue is that it has now become a compulsive behavior (Pluto) and this repetitive behavior now stems from unconscious security; we are used to this way of operating.

The way to undersatnd the Virgo archetype in relation to this is that through Virgo the soul is working on itself, humiliating and humbling any latent narcissistic tendencies relative to Leo. This prepares the space for the soul to then LEARN how to enter into relationship as an equal through Libra. This is just a way of understanding the archetypes from a progressive point of view. This does not mean that a 7th house Pluto has done the 6th house thing in the past. Any 7th house Pluto signature implies that there are separating desires from prior lives linked to "other" that have not yet been exhausted

Pluto in the 7th house people could either be dominating or subservient, or both in a relationship. The underlying issue is that we validate ourselves through someone else in a relationship. As with any other Pluto position, karma is often set in motion because the people involved in a relationship is often not consciously aware of the Pluto dynamics within the relationship.

Coming into this life the soul has the intention of shifting the focus from validating itself through someone else in relationships (Pluto 7th house) to validating oneself from within, but still within a relationship (Pluto Polarity Point in the 1st house).

Within or not within a relationship. Either one. The point is that as the polarity point is embraced that then sets in motion the actualization of balanced relationships/relationship patterns

With PPP in the 1st House, the aim is not to become totally Arian, but to find out your own individuality within a relationship, to learn how to be an equal within a relationship. To learn how to balance time by yourself with that of the other.

The point of the ppp is to develop one's individuality separate from relationship - this can happen while in a relationship or not in one. Ultimately, this is about exhausting desires for security linked to that which is not absolute - in this case, "other people". Evolution is the intention, balance in relationship is a by product of evolution.

In time the magnetism that is generated by consulting your (inner) self will attract other people who will allow you to be in a relationship without having to serve the other person’s need. Conversely, you will not have to make the other person an extension of your own needs. For some the shift is gradual, for some (because of resistance), the shift may come from a sudden shock.

Henrik's comments were very helpful to me in bringing some insights to some of my earlier questions....(I haven't quite figured out how to work the quote aspect of this message board from other people's posts so I can refer directly to what was written but I wanted to make a couple of comments!)

To quote someone, click on the little quote icon (just above the emoticons to right right, next to the pound sign) copy and past the selection you wish to quote in between the two brackets that will show up on your screen. Same for writing something in bold and all those other options.

It seemed to me that you (Henrik) were pointing out that it is not regressive for a 7th house Pluto person to focus on relationship....its just that they need to work through the limitations/karma/compulsions that they have acquired along the way....mastery of healthy relationship is part of their necessary learning but because of their insecurity (usually unconscious) they are limited.

The Aires polarity point work is about developing the ego enough so they can be in relationship in a healthy manner and not doing away with relationships....correct? This person legitimately needs to master learning to relate to others....Any further clarification from Ari or anyone else on this would be helpful.

Yes and remember the goal isn't being in balanced relationships, it's evolution. And I'll address your question about ego and the 1st house in a future post...

Also Henrik I appreciated your pointing out the trine....7th house is objective learning about oneself in relationship....The third house as the other point of the trine supports this beautifully...

Regarding this topic about the ego I absolutely invite anyone who is experienced in ea who feels they have something meaningful to contribute to jump in here. I'm going to do my best to offer my understanding.

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Hi Ari,

Thank you so much for all of your responses which I am finding very helpful! I want to respond to the comment you made about the ego and the first house with some further questions:

The evolutionary intent isn't about developing one's ego. The ego, which is symbolized by the Moon and it's lunar nodes, will always be a reflection of the soul's desires. 1st house isn't ego.

I understand that 1st house isn't ego but am finding some confusion around what is actually happening in the first house in relationship to the ego and what is often referred to in psychological language as ego building....I understand that in EA ego refers to the lens, the self identity, who we know ourselves to be (both conscious and unconscious?) and that the ego is the current life structure we have come in with that reflects our soul's desires and is found in the moon and the nodes and is also where our basic securities/insecurities lie?

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Yes - but it is specifically conscious. It is who we know our selves to be - as a creation of the desires within the soul, which are predominately unconscious.

How do you describe what is happening in the first house as far as evolutionary intent and its relationship to the ego if the task of the first house is expanding or discovery of one's individual sense of self?

The 1st house relates to the active moment by moment discovery process of the soul of its own unique existence in this life - thus the sense of "I will do it alone, this is something I need to do/try/say/experience" inherent to this archetype. The first house/Aries energy sets into motion the process of action and reaction on an ongoing basis which, ie constant self discovery. This is then how the soul gathers direct knowledge about itself which further fuels it's evolutionary intentions for the current life.

The way to exemplify this is via a 2 year old child. The child is needing to discover its own individuality by a burgeoning unfoldment of what its like to be alive. That discovery sets in motion and catalzyes all kinds of deeper lessons that this child will learn along the way.

I find it confusing to talk about because in psychological language that is often referred to as ego building or ego strengthening activity and I see that this can be misleading. In EA does the basic ego structure that the soul expresses through expand grow or change?

Yes relative to the changing (for better or worse) desire nature of the soul itself.

Is 1st house Aires work merely uncovering the structure that is already there as opposed to building something new?

It's about creating new actions in order to discover oneself and initiate the soul's purpose. In the end its all interrelated. So as the ego shifts to reflect the soul's evolution - the 1st house/Aries archetype will express as new kinds of actions that will lead the soul to further self discovery - ie evolution - which then leads yet again to a shift within the ego as a reflection of the changes within the soul.

When working with the ea paradigm, an important step to take into consideration is the phasal relationship between Mars and Pluto. This will indicate the specific way that the soul is intending in this life to initiate a path of self discovery in order to actualize it's evolutionary potential. There is a lot of info on this on the message board if you'd like to look around. It's also addressed in depth in the Pluto II book.

Also is ego in EA used interchageably with personality?

To me that sounds right.

Any clarifying thoughts or further insights would be greatly appreciated! Thank you so much!

Kora

Another thing to consider is the natural square between Cancer with Libra and Aries. Libra and Aries are both instinctive - initiation and self discovery through others or through being alone and acting independently. In both cases there is implied an active process of discovery which has the effect of influencing the development of the personality. They are not in and of themselves the ego, but they will lead the soul to experiences which then informs the individual soul about itself - thus the shift in the ego structure itself.

As always, please feel free to ask more about this.With love,Ari Moshe