8/13/13

Dharma Talk, July 15, 2013: Lankavatara Sutra

Good evening, today is
the 15th of July 2013, our regular Monday night class. We are going to talk a
little bit about a portion of the Lankavatara
Sutrathat has to deal with consciousness
and dealing with what is actually really "thinking" or who is
thinking.

A little bit of
background of the Lankavatara Sutra. This sutra was brought over from India in
about 300 C.E. We are not quite able to trace it back completely to India but historically,
it’s attributed to Bodhidharma, the first patriarch of the Chinese Buddhist School
who brought it over with him. It’s also attributed to a different clergy person
who brought it over. It’s important in terms of sutra because of the fact that
it veers away from the Theravadin School and emphasizes on attaining Nirvana.
It looks directly into mind and consciousness and as a result of this, this
particular sutra has an interest to the Yogacara (mind only - consciousness
only) school and also the Chan school (the Zen school) in terms of being
something that’s worthy to explore.

Consciousness and Mind

It’s important to
understand and I have been speaking this year a lot about the history of Chan
and tracing it back in China from the Madhyamika School with strong emphasis in
general on the Mahayana School and coming out of the Yogacara School, the T'ien-t'ai
School (Lotus school), and Hua-yen School or Avatamsaka School. All these
schools look at a different way of approaching the practice where the emphasis
is not on simply escaping but it is on the realization of mind and on
"what is mind?". Often we are confused because when we look at the
idea of the realization of mind, we are really talking about consciousness. We
want to figure out what consciousness is and it’s the frustration we have that
we cannot calm our consciousness down.

When we sit to meditate,
so many thoughts are arising that we cannot stop them. When we are around
people, we are constantly having opinions about this and that and our mind is
clicking saying "do this, do that, don't let them do this to you, don't
let them say that to you". All these things are there and because of our
ignorance in mistaking consciousness for mind, it’s very difficult especially
for someone who is a beginner, and it’s difficult even for the adept
practitioner to make the transition from simply seeing consciousness to
understanding the mind. It is essentially, what we could say would be, each
practitioner's holy grail. Unfortunately when we practice, we cling so much to
the idea of consciousness that we are unable to make the jump to see what mind
is, because we are trying to define mind
via consciousness and via the manner in which consciousness functions. And as a
result of that, it doesn't fit. It would be like trying to put the volume of
water in a swimming pool or an ocean into a small container. It’s not possible
to do. There is no way that the container can hold it or even begin to
appreciate the enormity of that volume of water and that’s why they often call
the mind the ocean because it’s so vast.

Question: Were you
talking about mind in terms of a universal mind?

Answer: Well, when we
talk about mind, we talk about what is mind. You can put a label on it and call
it universal mind, but it’s certainly not consciousness. It’s beyond
consciousness. It is essentially a fabric or the matrix of everything that appears,
and yet it’s beyond phenomenal appearances. What we see in our mind are
appearances. Because of ignorance and causes and conditions, we continue to
perpetuate that. As a result of that, we don't really see what mind is, but we
take those appearances to be mind. So the practice at this point where the
Lankavatara sutra comes in is a switch from looking at things and trying to
make things to purify the consciousness for a better existence in somewhere
else in Nirvana to the actual realization of mind. The difficult part about
this is that in order to make that jump, it is something that is beyond
conceptualization. But because we are so attached to conceptualization, it is
difficult for us to think.

Let’s say, like a
Quantum physicist who can think beyond the appearances and beyond what appears
to be the rules of construction or the fabric of reality. This is way outside
the box. It is all of the box and much more. It’s woven into every single atom,
every single particle that appears in mind, but the important part about it is
that everything is perfectly in its place in accordance with causes and
conditions. It’s not that a comet streaks across the sky just without any kind
of relation to anything else in the Universe. Everything is set into motion by
certain things. And when you look at things in this way, it’s different.

A divine plan?

Question: So, to reflect back to you, it’s almost
like you are saying it’s a divine plan seen as reality?

Answer: Not divine plan.
A divine plan would be more religious in terms of an entity that puts things
into motion. Whether we have a monotheistic or a pantheistic type of a model
where it’s like moving chess pieces around, as in Greek mythology. It’s not
quite that way. It’s that everything is related. You could say, in the same way
the clouds in the sky move in accordance with the nature of the earth and the
weather patterns and how they naturally move from high pressure to low pressure
systems. Naturally, no one has to think about that happening because it happens
naturally. Likewise in our life, if somebody is very nurturing and tender to
you, you feel a loving kindness towards that person. If the person is mean to
you, you feel the opposite.

So there are all of
these things that are naturally happening in accordance to causes and
conditions. But there is no divine plan. We could say that all of this is pure
but not in the sense of pure with opposites of pure and impure. It just simply
is happening naturally and we use the term Paticcasamuppada (causes
and conditions) to see that these things appear in mind.

So why does a thought
appear in mind? It’s not an arbitrary thought that appears in mind. The
thoughts arise in mind in accordance with causes and conditions. Your question
arises in mind in accordance with causes and conditions. The fact that you are
sitting there right now is because of causes and conditions. It wasn't that you
were just walking outside and said "oh, I think I'll just walk in this door!".
There was some reason why everyone in this room was brought into this room at
this moment. When we begin to see the world that way, it begins to make sense.
Rather than say "I don't know why he is such an angry person?" or
"I don’t know why this happens or that happens!",

When you see the things
through causes and conditions, it makes the world decipherable. It makes the
world more predictable. It makes it more malleable for positive things to come
into play because we understand that the bad things in the world are due to
causes and conditions. So we can generate a mind that can present positive
things into this world, so that the world changes little by little. If this is
not the case, then there would be no reason for me to be sitting here just to
tell you that "you know, nothing exists, nothing is real, nothing
matters". But it does matter. It matters, but not necessarily in the sense
of a divine plan, as much as it is just the nature of things, and how things
are set into motion. When we see things in this way, it embraces both Heaven
and Hell and shows the consequence of why those can possibly exist.

Question: I am just
fascinated by this talk. Could it be that reality then becomes a reflection or
that the causation is responsive to where your consciousness is at then?

Answer: The
consciousness is simply a reflection in mind itself. It’s an illusion. It’s
impermanent. It’s constantly changing. It changes in accordance with all of the
causes that are brought into motion producing a particular condition at this
moment. All of that is a reflection. There is no place that we can say
"Ah, this book is reality". Because if we look back far enough, we'll
find that there was some tree somewhere down the line, or it could have been
recycled paper but later on it's going to be recycled paper. And it maybe a
recycled book that goes to somebody who reads it. Now, I have so many books
that have been recycled from people who probably have died and left their books
somewhere and then they were given to me. It’s all causes and conditions that
we see. But there is no inherent reality in it because of the fact that it
lacks permanency. The only thing that there is that is permanent would be mind
itself. But in that mind itself, it also brings into play impermanence of all
phenomenal occurrences. So all of that is built into it. And if we tried to
say, this is real and this is not real, then that's where we get boxed into
corners because the conscious mind is not capable of dealing with that.

However, mind itself,
once settled, once quieted and once no longer under the delusion that
consciousness is mind itself, will resolve itself. It will bring everything
into a perfectly clear picture. But you'll not know that because you'll not be
there. The most that'll be left there will be a shadow of you or an appearance
of you but you'll be certain that that's not you. But nevertheless mind is
perfectly functioning at that point because it is no longer subject to the
cravings of greed, hatred, and ignorance. All of those things are now seen as
by-products of ignorance that's been there for a long time that creates this
idea of life and being, a personality or an ego. But when we set that aside, in
the beginning we have to kind of play and set it aside and it keeps coming back
and its going "I got it now". No you don't got it. If you got it,
you'd know and you wouldn't be saying that. You'd keep putting it to the side
and try to allow the mind to settle down. Once that happens, then it’s able to
see things clearly. But if you look for reality in the consciousness, it will
not be there simply because in order for it to be real, it would have to be
permanent and it’s not permanent.

You are constantly
saying, "Hmm, I think I'll have 2 cheese burgers. No, I changed my mind.
I'll have a Quarter Pounder". If there were permanence, you'd always order
the 2 cheese burgers, not the Quarter Pounder. Why? Because of the fact that
your mind cannot change. It would be there. Mind doesn't function that way. Not
consciousness. Consciousness thinks things are permanent and as a result of
that, the holding and clinging onto things causes suffering. And that suffering
causes further delusion.

As to a life and being
in misery, even if there is joy in that life and being, if that joy doesn't
last, there is much pain and suffering. What we do, as practitioners, is, we
see how mind works and we begin to pick up the traces of mind, not
consciousness, but mind. We can use consciousness as an experimental laboratory
to see the manifestations that come up so that we no longer cling to them and
claim to be us or cling to them and claim them to be some other person. We see
things as being open together and intermingling in accordance with causes and
conditions and relations that you have. You maybe have had in your life time a
time when you may have thought somebody was your enemy and you didn't like
them. And all of a sudden you like them. It changes. If it was always that that
person was your archenemy, they would only be your archenemy, not something
else. So things change.

We see these changes and
it enables us to be able to deal with the world or what we call the
environment. This, right now, is out environment. Wherever we go is our
environment. How do we change that environment that we are in? How do we affect
that environment? We begin to see the things that we do as an ego can really
pollute an environment or it can make something very good. But when we put down
the idea of both the good and bad, then the mind simply functions in a perfect
way. It need not have to think about if I am good or am doing bad. It just
simply does what is necessary and this is how we approach things.

Question: What is a
synonym for Sutra?

Answer: A Sutra is generally a
teaching of the Buddha. But it can also be teaching of an enlightened master
that is interpreting the Buddha. For instance, Hui Neng's Platform
Sutra could be one. But you have other
sutras that are attributed to the Buddha. Understanding that those sutras are
by and large interpretations of what the Buddha said earlier and were written
by disciples and not by the Buddha sitting down at his desk and writing these
things out. But, they nevertheless embody the teachings. The teachings also
undergo a bit of evolution, or I should say, refinement. Some practitioners
would cringe if I said "refinement", but that's why I used the word
"evolution" or "interpretation" but still consistent with
the idea of the principle of impermanence, of no-self, of emptiness. All of
these things that come in and we see suffering. Actually the practice is one
that's not a negative practice. It’s a positive practice. It’s not that we just
sit around going "Oh, woe to me. Everything here is suffering". If we
put our mind to it, we can change this place. This is how it works.

Skandhas, Dhatus,
Ayatanas and the 18 realms

Its chapter 82, and the
person that is speaking to the Buddha is Mahamati. He is a very good
practitioner. He says to the Buddha, "Bhagavan,
would you please explain again the arising and cessations of Skandhas, Dhatus and Ayatanas? So he is asking him to explain this arising and
falling of Skandhas (which are forms, sensations, perception, volition and
consciousness), Dhatus (phenomenon) and Ayatanas (sensory inputs that come in)
and sometimes they talk about the 18 realms of eye, ear, nose, tongue, body,
mind (sight, sound, smell, taste, touch, thought) and the consciousness of all
of those. He is asking "can you explain about this rising and falling of
these?". The Buddha responds, "Foolish
people rely on arising and cessation and fail to experience the end of
suffering and fail to know Nirvana. Listen carefully and I will tell you. The Tathagata
Garbha is the cause of whatever is good or
bad and is responsible for every form of existence everywhere."

So here is this change
and historically we are looking at things as a bit of a change where they are
talking about Buddha Dhatu (or Buddha Nature) which is another term for Tathagata
Garbha (thus come one from the womb). Womb does not mean the womb that is going
to give birth, but the womb that holds everything that's there. So he is
referring to mind itself, not consciousness. He is also referring to everything
that’s good or bad and all comes from there. So if you see somebody that’s very
very angry and they'll say something that’s profane like "you dirty son of
a b-tch", you'd say "Oh my God, that person said that!". That’s
not really from mind, could be from the mind or just the consciousness but no,
it is part of consciousness and also it is from mind because it was set into
motion by all sorts of different causes and conditions and concomitant causes
of somebody that learned those words and got angry enough to use them and projected
them at this point.

So these are
projections. The projections are something that if one is to watch a movie and
we put a projector here and we see a wonderful nature movie with dolphins
jumping in the water and then we see somebody like Hitler and the holocaust, then
we say one is good and one is bad. But whatever is projected on the screen, the
screen doesn’t interfere with the projector. It is connected with all of those
things. It sees the things and reflects them as they are. There is an inherent
reality in that, not in the pictures themselves but in the fact that it enables
those things to appear to accordance with causes and conditions - perfectly
appearing in this way. In that way one begins to understand that mind is beyond
the consciousness itself. That there is this projection that’s there and it's
being projected on mind.

(Gilbert reading from
the chapter:) "Its’ like an actor
who changes appearances in different settings but who lacks the self or what
belongs to a self because it is not understood. Followers of the path
unwittingly imagine an agent responsible for the effects that arise from the
3-fold combination."

So here is the thing in
terms of the past, present and future, all these things arising and they are
talking about that agent. Your question (Gilbert addressing a student) was a
legitimate one. You were asking "Is it a divine plan?" No it’s not a
divine plan. Your question is being answered here. And its saying that
"because it’s not understood, followers of the other paths unwittingly
imaging an agent responsible." You could replace that word agent to say
"God" is responsible for the effects that arise. But they are saying
"It isn't in this way". There is no divine plan.

(Gilbert reading
further:) "When it’s impregnated
with the habit energy of beginningless fabrication, it is known as repository
consciousness, and gives birth to fundamental ignorance along with 7 kinds of
consciousness."

Now everything that was
said in this sentence would take me several weeks to explain. But we are going
to go through it the best we can.

So the first thing he is
saying is impregnated. So when is it
impregnated? Now, he is talking about consciousness. He is saying when the
consciousness is impregnated with habit energy and actually I should say it’s
not just consciousness. He is talking about the 8th consciousness here. And
I'll explain that in a moment.

Habit energy is as if
one is to smoke a cigarette today and smoke another one tomorrow and maybe
later they'd smoke 2, 3, 4 cigarettes a day and then 4 cigarettes an hour
because they develop the habit energy to do that. They've impregnated the mind
with this desire and so as it impregnates it, the desire will come up. Why?
Because we've put it there. It is what we call "Bija", a seed.

In this way, the
repository that they are talking about is mind itself. And whatever we put into
this repository, it will draw up and out of it something that we put in. So
we'd be thinking about something. I'm thinking about a vacation. Its keeps
coming up in the mind. Or you are thinking of lunch. Or you are thinking how
much you hate work. So when you are at work, you'd be hating work all the time
because you've impregnated the mind with these images, these projections. We
take these projections to be our mind, but it’s not. It’s just our
consciousness arising because we put those thoughts in there.

Question: So then it’s
habitual to have loving Bija to seed your reality, your reflection, your
projection with love or is that just getting caught in the illusion <can't
understand>?

Answer: You could do
that or you could develop "Metta" (loving kindness) which isn't bad.
But it will not enable one a deep realization because one is still within the
realm of projections. And even though we have a positive projection which isn’t
bad, we are still within the realm of those projections. I am not saying you
shouldn't do that, in fact you should, and you should comport your behaviour to
high moral standards, not because you get a reward from it, but because you get
to eradicate or erode the illusory self or the self-nature of a person where
one begins to think of others before themselves. Not bad. But, simply just
doing that will not deliver a person, but it’s better than thinking bad
thoughts. So it’s a start.

And then he talks about beginningless fabrication. The reason
that he talks about beginningless fabrication is because one could get into a
trap as to say where did the mind start from. We don't know! Nobody knows that.
If you look at the idea of God and say "God created everything," then
what's the next question? Who created God? And it can't be answered. Those kind
of questions are useless to try to deal with because there is no way to begin
to say "ok, this is the beginning of time", because as you begin to
do this, you refute the idea of time. In any case, what they are talking about
this beginningless fabrication is what we have talked about earlier this year
about nescience entrenchment, which is fundamental
ignorance. This fundamental ignorance goes
directly to the idea of the illusory self and that we are unable to put down
the shackles of the self. We are just too afraid to do that and too accustomed
to thinking (even when we don't have fear), to the idea of consciousness versus
the idea of mind.

So, the next part they
talk about is repository consciousness.
Repository consciousness is that since everything is connected, everything
works in a certain way. So, if I slap Stan, he'd probably smile the first time
and say "ok, I'll let you get that one”. But if I go again, he's going to
slap me back. And so it’s not just the things I am thinking about, but it sets
into motion all kinds of things into consciousness. They are all connected in
this way. If we send a missile to a country, they'll send a missile back. If we
go over there, they'll come over here. It’s all connected in this way. So we
see this and this is what they call repository consciousness. This repository
consciousness is the 8th consciousness. In the Yogacara School they talk about
the 8th consciousness. Of the senses, there are 5. Then there is Mano vijnana which
is one that pulls together whatever one is seeing. One could see a round shape
and a crust on it. The nose can smell that it’s a smell of cherries. The
fingers can feel the hot plate there. And in the Mano vijnana, it says "it’s
a cherry pie".

This next consciousness
is the Manas consciousness. In Manas consciousness, it says "Let’s eat it;
now!" So it constantly setting into motion volition as to things and has
an opinion about it. In the Mano vijnana consciousness, it is simply
formulating something to be able to call it, say, a book. But after a while we
say "this is a good book" or "this is not a good book over
here". So its constantly making opinions about things, but in that 7th
consciousness is what they call (and I am going very very basic Yogacara
school) is a perfuming. The perfuming is what one says "oh this is a
cherry pie and I like it", it perfumes that cherry pie. The cherry pie is
neither good nor bad. It’s just a construct of different elements that come
together for a moment. But in the 7th consciousness, it creates an opinion that
perfumes this 8th consciousness, this repository consciousness that enables a
person to form an opinion about it - "I like it. I really really like it
and I am going to eat one right now and I am not going to give you any because
I like cherry pie that much. I am going to hide it". So all of these
things that come up develop these cravings.

Master Sheng Yen, my
Master, when he was young, during the holiday period, the people would ask the
monks to come to their house. They would give them good food. So they would
give them these Chinese sweet rice bowl type (Mexico’s’ sweet corn rice tamale
type) things. So his roommate who was a young monk as well, when he got it, he
would hide it underneath his pillow. Master Sheng Yen would just eat his and be
done with it. And each day, the roommate would eat his a little to make it go
longer. When their master found out about this, he threw the rice cake away and
beat him. He did not beat him out of anger; he'd beat him out of caution so
that the roommate did not create this kind of habit energy and attachment to
food or attachment to hiding things, which is another thing. It could be
anything he could be hiding.

We don't have people
that are like caddies who go around beating us when we do things that are
wrong. Maybe if we did, we wouldn’t do as many things wrong as we do. But we
don’t have that. The only thing we have is our own wisdom as to how things
work. And when we understand that wisdom, what we do is understand that if we
do this will have a cost to it. It will produce this condition. And we begin to
see things clear in this way.

So that is essentially
what’s happening with this repository consciousness. It’s that whenever the
cherry pie comes down or appears, the Bija seed will ring down "I want, I
want, I want". Now I chose cherry pie because it’s fairly innocent, except
somebody with a cherry pie who digs in. But you could put whatever you want.
You could put a man, woman, marijuana, alcohol, gossip, anger, all these things
that ring down and create a problem in our lives. Out of our ignorance we
cannot see that. But if we can see it, imagine how easier your life would be?
You would have that 3 second delay that the broadcasting companies have. So
before you make a mistake you can go "Oh, wait a second, do not say that
to the boss. I don't care how long you have been married. Don't say it. Don't
say it to your boss at work or if you are the boss don't say it to your
employees."

Whatever is there, you
try to harmonize with the environment, so that you don't create these problems.
When that happens, when the mind does not get attracted to these seeds that
rain down, then that is the Alayavijnana, that
is perfected. It is no longer subject to the habitual tendencies. It does not
mean it is not subjected to karmic forces. Karmic forces will still be affected
just simply like if you said say "I wish it stopped raining", that it
wouldn't stop raining because by nature, things move naturally, things that
have been set into motion before that would still produce things. The only
difference would be that things that you are not going to commit future karma
from your encounters with the karma that comes up at that point, or retribution
that can come up to you because before you used to be a bad person and now you
are a good person. It doesn’t mean that because now you are a good person you
are immune from misfortune. Those things will happen no matter what and you
have the misfortune of this life too, the things that happen.

So it’s all connected as
you begin to see it, but it smooths out the life quite a bit.

(Gilbert reading
further:) "It is like the ocean
whose waves rise without the seas but it transcends the misconception of
impermanence or conceit of self and is essentially pure and clear. The 7 kinds
of thoughts of the remaining forms of consciousness, the will, conceptual
consciousness and the others in the senses rise and cease as a result of
mistakenly projecting and grasping external appearances."

Because people are
attached to the names and appearances of all kinds of shapes, they are unaware
that such forms and characteristics are perceptions in their own mind. They
don't see that there are perceptions in their own mind. They don’t see that these
things are illusory. They take them to be real. That bliss or suffering does
not lead to liberation, which answered your question when you were talking
about "if I do good...". But that bliss will not lead you to
liberation. It will make you a better citizen but it won't lead to liberation
because you are still caught up in the projection of the world. This word
"projection" is a very important word for us to do because when you
sit to meditate, you have all sorts of projections. It’s easier to see things
when you are meditating as projections when they are here, but everything you
see here, including me, are projections in your own mind. When you begin to
realize that, you begin to realize that all of these things are all connected.
They are all playing out in accordance with causes and conditions.

(Gilbert reading
further:) "As we become enveloped
by names and appearances, their desires arise and create more desires, each
becoming the cause and condition of the next. Only if the senses stop
functioning, the remaining projections in the mind no longer arose and they do
not distinguish bliss or suffering when they enter the samadhi of cessation of
sensation and perception. However, in their cultivation of the truth of
liberation, they give rise to the concept of liberation and fail to transcend
or transform what is called the repository consciousness of the Tathagata
Garbha."

This is really a lot
that I am doing but I am giving you an exposure to it and letting you know that
it's essentially saying that if you let go of these things, if you just allow
them to be projected, knowing, reflecting that they are just mere surface of
the mind and no longer taking it to be mind itself, then we no longer dealing
with the repository consciousness, but we are seeing things clearly through the
Alayavijnana as the Yogacara School would look at it and see clearly as the Zen
School would say. The Buddha Dhatu, the true nature of the mind, one would
realize their True Nature.

In this way the Yogacara
school and the Chan school are very very similar, using different terms and
maybe approaching it differently, with the Yogacara school saying this is mind
only or consciousness only. The Chan school cuts right to the chase saying
"this is mind;" the self-nature of mind. This is how it works and in
that it cuts through all kinds of conceptions so that one is not left with
anything to debate with or debate against in terms of simply seeing how mind
works. One cannot see how mind works via the consciousness. One has to allow
the mind to settle.

"As the 7 kinds of
consciousness never stop flowing…" This is very important because as we
sit to meditate, we want the 7 kinds of consciousness to stop flowing. “I don't
want to think anymore. I don't want to do this. I am not thinking anymore. Its
quiet. I must be enlightened.” No! Even when the projections are becoming
dimmer and dimmer, the self is still there. It’s natural that these things will
arise and its possible that one that is realizing the self-nature of mind will
be able to see the vestiges of self that are coming up like echoes in the mind.
One does not attach to it. We let those go. As a result of letting those go,
the mind becomes more and more settled.

So it’s really important
for you to understand that point that the 7 kinds of consciousness never stop
flowing. What happens is a lot of time when people begin to meditate, they want
everything to stop and it doesn't work that way. What stops is the attachment
to all those things. But the mirror still reflects. And how so? because the
different kinds of consciousness arise out of causes and conditions.

“This is not the
understanding of the Sravaka or Pratyekabuddha practitioners because they do not realize
that there is no self that is arising from the grasping the individual or
shared characteristics of the Skandha, Dhatus and Ayatanas.” Essentially if one
is grasping the idea that the consciousness can be purified, that one can stop
thinking all these things, these are still erroneous assumptions. We are not
seeing how mind works. And as we are seeing that, we are deluded into thinking
that when the consciousness slows down, that in fact is a realization, a
genuine realization, which it is not.

It is not the idea. The
mind in actuality speeds up, not slows down. But it is able to handle the
processing of much more data quickly to make more well knowing decisions, if
that is wisdom. It’s wisdom that is aware of what people are doing, whether
they are scratching themselves, yawning or looking away. But it doesn't
interfere with your ability to communicate with people. We are totally aware of
that. All of this information comes in very very quickly to the mind all the
time; all the time. It’s because of our grasping of conceptions that blind us
and keep us from being able to realize this incredibly functioning mind.

I am going to jump ahead
a little bit. I may come back later. But I want you to have this payoff a
little bit today. So, he says "All
of the repository consciousness seen by the minds of the Sravakas
(Pratyekabuddha who are practitioners that aren't really practicing Buddha
dharma) is essentially pure. But because its obscured by the dust of sensation,
it appears impure. But not to the Tathagatas, not to a Buddha. To Buddhas, the
realm that appears to them is like a Amala (aamla) fruit in the
palm of their hand.

The amala fruit is this
giant goose berry that they have in India. And then the Buddha talks about how
he used his spiritual power to enable the Queen Srimala, which is we talked
about in the Lion's Roar Sutra
earlier this year, to be able to teach other Bodhisattvas a deep wisdom and
explain the meaning of what is called the repository consciousness in the
Tathagata Garbha, which is well explained in that sutra which appear together
along with 7 kinds of other consciousness. So that those Sravakas still
attached to them might see that persons and dharmas are without self.

"Thus supported by the power of the Buddha, Queen Srimala explains
the realm of understanding of Tathagatas and not the realm of understanding of
Sravakas and Pratyekabuddhas".

The point here is that
this realm of understanding is a different one from the way we look at things
and the way we perceive things via consciousness versus the way it really is.
So in the Lion's Roar sutra, its approaching it from this idea of the Buddha
Dhatu (Buddha nature) of the mind versus somebody seeing things from the
conceptualization arising from consciousness.

Question: So what they
are saying here is that the Theravadin path is looking at things as pure and
impure whereas the approach of the Tathagatas is that they see it all as
following from causes and conditions and is still pure. Is that what they are
trying to say?

Answer: Pretty much. We
talk about pure and impure, but here when they are talking about the mind being
pure, it also encompasses the not-pure, in terms of just its natural
functioning. Then it continues and says "The
repository consciousness of the Tathagata garbha (the nature of your mind) is
something only Buddhas and wisest Bodhisattvas who rely on meaning, understand.
Therefore, you and the other Bodhisattvas should diligently reflect on the
repository consciousness of the Tathagata garbha.”

You have to diligently look into it.There is nothing that I am going to say
to you that will get you there; nothing. The whole practice of Chan or Zen is
for you to look into mind to realize the self nature of mind. It says, “Don't simply think hearing about this is
enough. If you think you are going to get the answer from what I am saying, it’s
not enough.” All I am doing is what they use as an analogy is a finger
pointing at the moon, where the moon represents the true nature of mind. You
have to look beyond the finger, at the moon itself. When you see things this
way, it’s different because now you are investigating mind. That’s what they
talk about investigating Chan. When you are investigating mind, you are looking
at mind, at appearances in mind and you are not swayed or deluded by what
appears in mind and not able to see mind itself.

It’s like if one has to look
up at the sky and it had clouds and you go "oh, the sky is these clouds",
without ever realizing that it’s limitless, limitless sky. But you are deluded
in the belief that the sky is made of these clouds versus the limitlessness of
the mind itself. That’s what you have to do. When you sit to meditate, this is
where you put your mind and investigate with that. And when you are walking
around, you use this wonderful, wonderful mind. If you navigate the world in
this way, you are navigating through wisdom not delusion.