Thursday, February 01, 2007

Group of 88 for Credit: Reading Assignments

One of the three books assigned for Anne Allison's "Group of 88 for Credit" class (see below) is Peggy Sanday's Fraternity Gang Rape. Here's the summary for the revised edition, from the NYU Press homepage.

This widely acclaimed and meticulously documented volume illustrates, in painstaking and disturbing detail, the nature of fraternity gang rape. Drawing on interviews with both victims and fraternity members, Peggy Reeves Sanday reconstructs daily life in the fraternity, highlighting the role played by pornography, male bonding, and degrading, often grotesque, initiation and hazing rituals.

In a substantial new introduction and afterword, Sanday updates the incidences of fraternity gang rape on college campuses today, highlighting such recent cases as that of Duke University and others in the headlines. Sanday also explores the nature of hazing at sororities on campus and how Greek life in general contributes to a culture which promotes the exploitation and sexual degradation of women on campus. More broadly, Sanday examines the nature of campus life today and the possibility of creating a rape-free campus culture. [emphasis added]

But, of course, Allison and others in the Group of 88 firmly believed in the presumption of innocence.

"As an academic advisor, as a student services administrator living in the REAL world, as a fraternity advisor and as a man, I found this book offensive and reductive. From the premise (which is basically "all men are pigs and all women are saints") through the bibliography (much of which is from UNpublished and NON-peer-reviewed graduate thesis work, plus a HUGE amount of anecdidotal (sic) and second-hand material) the book is shot through with biased, agenda-based, overwrought, inaccurate diatribes."

Her book, unfortunately, is neither as compelling as contemporaneous journalism (irritatingly, the book does not identify the fraternity or the university, referring throughout to the "XYZ" fraternity at "U.") nor filled with any special insights due to the author's close-up vantage point.

So, the recent "gang rape" at Duke is part of the "meticulously documented volume" that has been assigned.

That alone speaks volumes about the objectivity of the book and the scholarship of its author.

A larger question is how can we take the G88's objectivity, integrity, intelligence, or scholarship seriously when they cling so desperately to a case that will fail to fit with their race/gender/class metanarrative. It makes one wonder if everything they do if complete fiction.

Of course, prison rape is not the only type of gang rapes against males. Gang rapes against males have also been reported as having been committed by street gangs against rival gang members or non-members (rare), or as hate crimes against gays. According to researchers, "gang rape is more common with male victims than female victims.

What blatant absence of academic rigeur. Certainly, this stuff belongs elsewhere, perhaps with a self-funded interest group. People are paid money to dole out this stuff to fresh minds? I call academic fraud, and the Emperor is naked!

Mike Nifong: If I only hadn't been so blatant, I might have slipped this case through my good ol' boy system and I'd have my pension.

G88: If I only hadn't been part of the Rape Hoax, I might've been able to continue teaching courses in the Politics of Pokemon and Rampant Gang Rape at Universities, collecting that sweet monthly paycheck.

Found this on indianz.com. TOO FUNNY, but I think the Group of 88 should be included:-----------This was sent to me BY A MEMBER of Badeagle.com. Even his own people think he's nuts.

-----

Pianist become conservative pundit Dr. David Yeagley today challenged Iranian president Mahmoud Ahmadinejad to what he called “an insane comment contest” on live TV to determine who is the insane comment champion of the world.

Appearing on a local Oklahoma city TV station this morning, Yeagley said that while he respects Mr. Ahmadinejad’s work, he believes Iran's president will be “no match” for his arsenal of crazy, unhinged remarks.

“I’ve heard Mahmoud Ahmadinejad’s nutty rants in the past, and while I think he comes off like a total bananahead, in a one-on-one with me he will be the picture of sanity,” Yeagley said.

In Iran, President Ahmadinejad accepted the pianist's challenge and said that while he was “confident of victory” he recognized that besting him in an insane comment contest “would not be easy.”

“In any competition involving verbal lunacy, Dr. David Yeagley is the favorite going in,” Mr. Ahmadinejad. “I will need to train for this for months.”

But even as the rules for the insane comment contest were being set, North Korean president Kim Jong-Il and televangelist Pat Robertson expressed outrage that they had been excluded from the competition and demanded to be invited.

Within hours, Dr. Yeagley apologized for omitting President Kim and the Rev. Robertson but said that the omission would be corrected: “Me, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, Pat Robertson and Kim Jong-Il: that’s the Final Four.”

Also a Duke parent here - I have emailed the provost, vice-provost, president, and members of the board of trustees about this course. This was about 2 weeks ago - no response so far. I am not holding my breath, but maybe there will be changes in the future.

College girls don't really get gang raped. Those that 'cry rape' after their drunken consensual sex with a half a dozen or so guys they don't know are nothing more than liars and false accusers ashamed of their promiscuity. Anecdotal stories from these lying false accusers about how their false rapes occured are fantasies. Got it.

This is an example of the damage done by the Duke hoax. It brings all the rape deniers out of the woodword.

Rape isn't a problem. Date rape is a made up category that allows lying women who regret sex to ruin the lives of innocent men. All statistics, studies, personal stories or surveys that support the idea of rape as a significant problem are lies. Okey dokey.

A course like this only heightens Duke's vulnerability to suits by the lacrosse players. Here we have a course taught by a university in which it is alleged that the lacrosse players from that university participated in a gang rape -- a rape that never happened.

As I told one of the lacrosse mothers (unindicted player), Duke continues to rub the noses of the lacrosse players and their families in the dirt.

what i find interesting is, people seem so shocked that this type of instruction is going on, come on guys, this BS was born in the '60s and is nearing the half century mark now. what i wanna know is, where do people that major in this crapola find employment outside of academia?

1:44 PMActually, rape, as with all crimes of physical violence, assault and injury, are reprehensible to all, including those on this board and most everywhere else. To allege otherwise here is an attempt at baiting, so good luck with the effort.

The Duke case was a hoax. And 3 innocent men still stand accused of crimes that never occurred.

How does something that did not occur change the occurence of rape?

Now, the Hoax DID exist, and that will adversely affect true rape victims.

Actually there are real instances of date and acquaintance rape, where a young man forces himself sexually on a woman without her consent. As someone who directed psych services at a mid-size university, it was not difficult distinguishing the real thing from drunken sex. Usually date or acquaintance rape is not reported.

Of course, the Duke 3 have nothing to do with the above, but I don't think it's an accurate statement that it does not exist.

I did an advanced google search on "millennial postmodernity" and Allison's tripe is the ONLY, repeat ONLY reference that popped up. There are flippin' CONTESTS offering a TON of cash if someone can put two words together that DON'T have a google match. What's the saying about a monkey at a typewriter?

Others, noting that the football team's approximately 60-member roster typically includes most of the college's nonwhite students, lamented that cutting the team would deep-six diversity on the 1,200-student campus.

Simberg said that the college's football program has been around since 1923, and as late as the 1970s players came mostly from the Iron Range.

But then declining high school enrollments led community colleges in the region to recruit from outside Minnesota. In southern states they found players who did poorly in high school and couldn't get into the colleges of their choice, and were eager to go to any school that would let them play football.

But the heavy recruiting has drawn fire, in part from those who see a pattern in a string of incidents and crimes involving recruits during the past 15 years. The incidents included the alleged rape last fall of an 18-year-old high school senior in a dorm room by four current and former Hibbing Community College football players, who were charged and await trial.

I wouldn't know it to read your posts that you believed rape was a problem.

I don't see evidence that gang rape on campus is exaggerated, but the book referred to was written several years ago, and since then most fraternities have made a lot of changes in order to reduce the liklihood of gang rape occuring. It is very possible the actual incidences of college gang rape are going down.

I'm very well aware that black rape rates and black on white rape rates are disproportionately high.

I'm also alware of that athletes appear to commit a disproportionate share of college rapes. There is a lot of info about why this may be, but I'm sure it wold be dismissed as feminist tripe.

If you've been around since the 60s like me, you should know the answer. The average students (the majority of them) end up as baristas at Starbucks. The "advanced" students go to graduate school, eventually getting PhDs by hanging around like-minded dolts. They then climb on the gravy train, their passage paid by (yes, you guessed it) you and me. Art schools operate in the same manner.

Leaving aside my mounting incredulity at the ever-more-fantastic picture of Allison's course, I offer the following.

Sorry for the length of this post. In response to the post regarding the Sanday book, I went to Amazon.com to see what was posted there about it. Here’s what I found. The review referred to is posted in full on the Amazon site as well. Armed with that disturbing news, I then searched “Duke rape” on Amazon – in addition to a listing for the DVD (complete with head shots of the three players) of the 60 Minutes segment with Ed Bradley (the review of which reads like a bad novel) that also links to IMDb, of all places, there are three pages of other books that come up. Nearly all of them are literary works with the words duke and rape somewhere in the text, but I did find this gem listed as #22 on page 2 of the list:

Total Chaos: The Art and Aesthetics of Hip-HopBy Jeff Chang (2007) Basic Civitas Books, an imprint of Perseus Books Group.

From the Basic Civitas website: “Directed by Henry Louis Gates, Jr., Basic Civitas Books is devoted to publishing a broad range of titles on African and African American Studies. With works by Cornel West and Orlando Patterson, as well as the forthcoming encyclopedia Africana, Basic Civitas Books will greatly enhance the presence of African American works in the marketplace.”

I then clicked on the link to the reference to “Duke rape” on page 163 of the book (click on “Excerpt – page 163” in the short description of the book at the above site) and found the following excerpt:

Page 163: “Hip-hop’s gender trouble has been well-documented, and if the recent burst of feminist writing, discoursing, and organizing is any indication, many breakthroughs are on the way. Two of the most insightful thinkers on the topic, Joan Morgan and Mark Anthony Neal, sit down here for an extensive and critical conversation about what it means for women and men to be hip-hop feminists. Their discussion is provocative not only for the powerful analysis they bring to subjects like the development of a public hip-hop feminist intelligentsia, the meaning of the Mike Tyson rape trial and Duke lacrosse rape case, and the complicity of both men and women in hip-hop patriarchy but also for how they model building an alternative hip-hop-centric world in their personal friendship and the work that they choose to do. Questions of identity sometimes paradoxically become paralyzing. Neal and Morgan remind us that identity is not a law, it’s not an answer, it’s a process.”

I’ve quoted the entire paragraph so that readers can have it in context to see if they have any better luck than I did trying to understand what Jeff Chang is talking about. As for lumping the Mike Tyson case and the Duke “rape” case together, perhaps Mr. Chang should take advantage of the fact that the book is not scheduled for release until February 28 to correct his utterly misleading description of this matter by reference to more recent events.

As for using Prof. Neal as a source (for two segments in the book), res ipsa loquitur (the thing speaks for itself).

To know that the legal fees in this nightmare are at $3 million and mounting while folks like Sanday and Chang make proverbial hay by trading on this mess is revolting.

BTW if you are playing the odds, I'd warn women that they are in most danger from black athletes.

I'm doing some work on IQ and came across a study of white males that said the incidence of serious crime was related to IQ in a very strong way.

If women want to reduce the chances of rape, they would be wise to go to an elite institution in an elite neighborhood.

Now consider that on average black IQ is one standard deviation below white IQ and two standard deviations below Askenazi Jewish IQ and I'd want that top college located in a Jewish neighborhood or a well to do neighborhood. (IQ is somewhat correlated with income, and also somewhat related to the propensity to commit crimes).

Also I would warn them that perfect safety is available no where on this planet. If you are alone firearms are a good idea. Cell phones always. Travel with an escort (preferably male). We are not quite as civilized as we would like to believe.

These people who are fixating on the sex lives of college students remind me of Kevin Spacey in American Beauty , the movie. The interest is just too much. I wonder what kind of warped people lurk behind the academic facade.

--Simon---You're not that dense are you? Ole Polanski writes his repetitive crap here. Then he comes back over it and poses as someone who picks up on it and praises it.RP Polanski poses as many different people making it appear he has great support on this blog.Honestly, I think that the term Angry Studies is stupid.Similar to those 88 he tries to attack. It's all so ridiculous. RP is glued to this website.

These so-called scholars sit around drinking each other's dirty bath water. Any publication gets credit as scholarly work, and there are publishing houses that specialize in this trash. It's the fruits of the radical feminist movement, you see. Now they are entrenched in, among other places, academia and media, and will react like cornered wolverines when challenged or criticized. Intellectual integrity, academic rigor -totally foreign notions to your average wolverine.

PS

Don't make the mistake of assuming that all these creatures wear skirts. There are froth-at-the-mouth male versions also.

"Questions of identity sometimes paradoxically become paralyzing. Neal and Morgan remind us that identity is not a law, it’s not an answer, it’s a process.”

Now I know why I have no college degree. There was nothing funnier than reading the comments in the other thread as poster after poster either lauded their academic "credentials" or slammed someone else's.

Last week someone posted about needing a good mechanic, and yet, here we have a slew of supposedly educated people making absurd claims about prestige as it relates to a college degree.

Here, let me give it the old college try ...

I have found that when discussing race, gender and class in the postmodern sense of modernism, it becomes a saga of millenial meaning as the years of opression suffered by those who are not worthy of gender identification realize they are slaves to the opressors.

I have processed my identity (although I was careful not to fold, spindle or mutilate it) through the prism of race gentrification as it relates to postmodernism and I find that when I hate myself, others hate me too, because I can't process myself.

I've seen posters here state that women physically abuse men at the same rate as men physically abuse women, and poo poo the disparity in partner murder rates, apparently women don't murder their husbands anymore they go to the shelter. I've seen posters say that the vast feminist conspiracy has gone so far as to reorder the public school curriculums and norms to disadvantage boys. I've seen many post opine about the high rate of false rape claims, using the same handful of 20 year old examples. I've even now seen that men are more at risk of gang rape than women. It must be my agenda, because I see a strong undercurrent of woman bashing in these posts.

No, you've seen a good deal of victim studies bashing, big difference. ---------------------------

It's a tough call when something crosses the line, no?

Domestic violence was for decades not taken seriously by police. It wasn't until a number of high profile cases where police were called, no arrests were made and the victims were subsequently killed by the men, and when the 'feminists' started studying the laws and police procedures and determined you basically had to half beaten to death for something to happen.

A huge backlash resulted, where now all a woman has to do is accuse the man of hitting her and he goes directly to jail. That doesn't mean that domestic violence wasn't a problem, isn't a problem or that women are still not disproportionally victims of violence by men, but it opens the door for abuse of the system by a minority.

The same with rape. For decades you couldn't get a conviction for a stranger rape case without having your entire sex life paraded before the jury. Rape is still underreported, with low rates of arrest, prosecution and conviction and many, many horror stories of court proceedings and victim bashing as well as many documented cases of men being acquitted who went on to commit sex crimes, or men with records of sex crimes getting acquitted becasue the jury was never told. There now exists a huge array of victims services, victim advocates, sensitivity training and so forth to try and correct the false assumptions about rape. This, too, has opened the door to make it easy for women to falsly claim rape and get away with it. It doens't change the fact that rape is a significant problem, little understood still in our society or that there is no evidence that false rape accusation rates are extraordinarily high.

In any case the best defence against a rapist is a firearm carried by a woman who knows how to use it.

Amen.

Though given most states' laws, I would also recommend some sort of martial arts, too, and not just a six-week self-defense course. Beating the snot out of an attacker serves as a most effective deterrent to future attacks, and not just on you.

The rank double standard of the N&O is on display for all to see. They sure made a point of reporting the races of the Lacrosse players and their false accuser. We're onto you, Melanie:

Durham police searching for suspect

From Staff Reports, N&O, Jan 31, 2007

DURHAM - A woman said she was kidnapped and raped early today, and police are looking for the suspect.

A 46-year-old woman told police she was walking on Mallard Avenue just after midnight when a man approached and asked for a light. As she lit his cigarette, he grabbed her and dragged her inside an abandoned house in the 800 block of Mallard Avenue, the woman said.

The man tied an electrical cord around her throat, hit her several times and threatened her with a knife before raping her, the woman told police.

The man fled when he heard police sirens. Police were in the area responding to a breaking and entering call.

The man is described as being in his 40s, 6 feet tall with a muscular build. He was bald and wearing a brown ski jacket and black pants.

http://www.newsobserver.com/141/story/538189.html

-------------------------------------------------------------

Same story from the Herald-Sun:

Info sought on sexual assault

Jan 31, 2007 : 11:49 pm ET

DURHAM -- Durham police are seeking information about a sexual assault that was reported early Wednesday on Mallard Avenue near Elizabeth Street.

A 46-year-old woman told officers she was walking on Mallard Avenue shortly after midnight when a man approached her and asked for a light. She gave him a light and he then grabbed her and dragged her inside an abandoned house in the 800 block of Mallard Avenue.

The man tied an electrical cord around her throat and hit her several times. He also threatened her with a knife before he raped her.

The man fled when he heard police sirens in the area (officers were responding to a break-in in progress call).

The suspect is described as a black male in his 40s, 6-feet tall with a muscular build. He was bald and was wearing a brown ski jacket and black pants.

Anyone with information is asked to call Investigator W.T. Coghill at 560-4583 or CrimeStoppers at 683-1200. CrimeStoppers pays cash rewards for information leading to arrests in felony cases and callers never have to identify themselves.

It doens't change the fact that rape is a significant problem, little understood still in our society or that there is no evidence that false rape accusation rates are extraordinarily high.

There are two things here:

1. Rapes. One rape is one too many. However, the politicization of this area has not allowed us to study why and under what circumstances men rape women and therefor how to identify likely perps and prevent such things. The politics I am referring to is the usual feminist claims that all men are likely rapists and all women are likely victims.

2. False rape claims. One false rape claim is one too many. The incidence of false rape claims is obviously extroadinarily high. Just look for news reports in the last few years.

3:18 PM"This, too, has opened the door to make it easy for women to falsly claim rape and get away with it. It doens't change the fact that rape is a significant problem, little understood still in our society or that there is no evidence that false rape accusation rates are extraordinarily high."

Rape is a significant problem, as are all violent crimes. We all know this, even without your presence on this board. Rape itself is not quite the big mystery you make it out to be, although the rates of rape statistics can be discussed Ad infinitum over double vanilla-bean frappachinos till the cows come home.

Meanwhile, without people like Joe Chesire and the other defense attorneys, 3 innocent men would be rotting away in prison and both true rape victims and those falsely accused of rape would have their voices set back 50 years. Meanwhile, the "academic discourse" over coffee continues.

That is why KC started this blog, because he actually wants to accomplish something.

You are wrong. The incidence of false rape claims is NOT extraordinarily high. All false rape complaints get a ton of press coverage, which supports the wrong belief that false rape claims are high. Stranger rape cases also get disproportionate amounts of media coverage further fueling the wrong idea that real rape is about strange men grabbing women off the street and brutally raping them.

The problem is that the CJ system is very costly for the innocent; whether they are found innocent or guilty. And states have no reasonable system to recompense the innocent for abuse to their name or in their real damages. Those working in the CJ system have a reason to keep busy in a high-profile way to get elected, keep their jobs or support an old-boy network.

Justice is supposed to be blind. Tilting it towards one group has resulted in undesireable side-effects which we are witnessing now.

I've watched many episodes of law/order type shows and it shows the detectives and/or prosecutors levelling threats or giving someone a hard time as they are potential suspects or to try to get information out of them that they may or may not have. That seems pretty disgusting to me; especially when they hassle many people to try to catch one person.

They can wind up defaming someone or inconvenience them or they might even wind up dead.

Let's try for better investigation of criminal accusations. If there's an accusation, provide an accused shield law too. If they find that they have the wrong person, provide for compensation for his time and damage to his name and be sure to put it in all the papers that they guy is innocent.

"You're free to go" doesn't cut the mustard.

That letter to the editor in one of the Durham newspapers that complained about a black person wrongly convicted and later exonerated was right. There should be outrage in his case and he should be compensated for his time and damage to his name. Same deal with the Fells Acre Day Care case. There's no political benefit to victim compensation though as the public doesn't care.

If Polanski is "posing" as different posters with an Angry Studies campaign, how do you explain the fact that it was Polanski who wanted to refine the term. I enjoy P's posts, as I do most of the posters on this blog. What I don't understand is your focus on Polanski. I'm convinced you're one of the stupid professors Polanski loves to excoriate. Get a life, asshole.

I do not know what his original goals were but blogs frequently take many twists and turns.

I think that one cannot really say mission accomplished until the charges are dismissed with prejudice.

The next stage would be recompense and charges against the truly guilty.I'd add Duke admin andfaculty to that list.

I think that there's a book to be written on the anger studies stuff on campuses alone. And another book on wrongful prosecutions. And another on false rape accusations. This case has had many strange sidetrips.

The Hoax is still on. The 3 falsely accused innocent men still stand charged with felonies that can bring 30 years in prison. Now is a good time to help defuse the Hoax. At least a nod to Chesire, Johnson, and others who helped debunk the case is in order. They're the good guys, and if we take good guys for granted, they might not be around for the next fight.

Excuse me, I am not an expert on defamation lawsuits but hasn't Professor Allison just proven herself guilty of two of its main charges? I.e., slander and willful intent? She proves slander by calling the Duke lacrosse team gang rapists. And she proves intent by declaring she will label the team gang rapists to future students.

The fantasy picture of rape and patriarchy that the 88 concoct is a reality in Pakistan, Saudi Arabia and several other countries. Yet most if not all members of the 88 are major supporters of Hamas and other Islamist organizations that aim to spread Sharia and its hudud laws over the entire planet. Under hudud, a woman who accuses a man of rape is herself punished -- unless she can come up with four "reputable" male witnesses to support her claim.

This whole farce woud be funny except for the fact that it is extraordinarily dangerous.

ABSOLUTELY, you can have a degree from an "almost Ivy Leage" school with that exquisitly phrased prose. May Dr. Brodhead bestow upon you the DR. of Millennial Postmodernity degree! That and $1.25 will get you a cup of coffee at Starbucks. They will even give you a free pot to bang after just 25 purchases. Seriously, your post was very amusing! I enjoyed it.

So, please tell us what real rape is about. -----------------------------

Over 70% of reported rapes are between people who know each other, acquantance rape. When including rapes not reported to the police the figures go to over 80% of rapes happening between non strangers. That means the idea that in order for it to be 'real' a rape has to be by a stranger, include injuries, torn clothing and so forth is a myth.

I predict that Durham, NC will end up like Haiti. The same kind of third world lifestyle and view of right and wrong.The US has funneled billions of dollars down the sinkhole called Haiti, and they are still in need. Still a lost cause. When people won't work for themselves and are corrupt they will always be a lost cause.Durham, NC is no different. I wish Duke could get out of that racist dungeon.

The fact that we've gone from (1) dropping A-bombs on Japan, with all the cultural, political and military history leading up to that, to (2) an extended period that I remember very well when Americans understood "Made in Japan" to mean "crappy product," to (3) a Japanese airline that flies a jet to LA covered with Pokemon characters because American kids love them, is actually worth studying from a variety of perspectives.

Whether Anne Allison is the best person to do that, or whether she could write about it more clearly, is pretty remote from whether this "hook-up culture" class will be just another exercise in G88 prejudice.

I still cannot understand the role of the pot-bangers and the G88 in supporting the Hoax. Wasn't that conterproductive to effectively dealing with all rape accuations, founded and unfounded? ---------------------------------

You might argue the very fact that it seems right out of a novel or bad movie: rich, racist, whites at a privileged Southern, private university, perpetrate a horrifically, brutal, degrading gang rape on a B average working mother, ex military college student stripping her way up the socio-economic ladder SHOULD HAVE SET OFF THE ALARM BELLS.

The story was too good to be true, it read too much like a bad film because it was too good to be true, it was a fantasy.

Unfortunately, things have gotten so out of hand and human nature plays a role as well, people hate to admit they are wrong, that the Group of 88 will never apologize.

My view is that the race and class issues FAR outweighed anything surrounding the crime of rape. My guess would be if it had been black Duke students accused by a local white trailer trash Durhamite the Group of 88 would have come to the defense of the defendants instead.

As we talk about I.Q. and crime it's important to specify violent or street crime if you say the correlation is negative. White collar crime as with the Enron and World Com cases is the other way around.

As we talk about I.Q. and crime it's important to specify violent or street crime if you say the correlation is negative. White collar crime as with the Enron and World Com cases is the other way around.

Well, of course, but then people with low IQ rarely get the opportunity to commit such crimes.

Over 70% of reported rapes are between people who know each other, acquantance rape.

Hmmm, so over 70% are cases of she said/he said? Perhaps a good many of them are miscommunication, eh, like the case in Durham that was dismissed because the perp married the victim. That looks to me like he wanted the sex without the responsibilities, and she used the rape charge to get what she wanted, which was someone to pay her bills.

That looks to me like he wanted the sex without the responsibilities, and she used the rape charge to get what she wanted, which was someone to pay her bills. --------------------------------

Sounds like they deserved each other then.

But, that isn't really reflective of most rape cases. It could, playing devil's advocate mean a number of things, including that the woman was the classic abuse victim who keeps on coming back to her abuser.

What kind of man would marry a woman who falsly accused him of rape?

Could be he did rape her, then, apologized, agreed to marry her, she dropped the charges and he's probably beating the crap out of her right now.

To the posters claiming false accusations are rare, what specific proof do you have of that claim?Every time I see someone claim false accusations are rare they point to that only a small number of women are prosecuted for it. This is not proof they are rare only that the conviction rate is very low for the crime. People who claim rape is rare can make the exact same argument since the conviction rate for rape is low as well.So please point to specific studies that support the conclusion that false accusations are rare.

The FBI national crime statistics put unfounded rape accusations at 8% and they have been at 8% for many years. Unfounded includes false accusations and accusations deemed unfounded for other reasons.

A recent large study in the United Kingdom found, depending on what is counted as false, e.g. if a third party made a report and both the man and woman said 'no rape' then it was counted as "false"...so depending on those issues the false rape was 3-4% for what we typically consider 'false' e.g. a LIE, or 6% for all false reports including other reasons.

On the other hand, the 'false accusations are common' group tend to site either purely anecdotal opinions...the UK study also found that police routinely over estimated the rate of false rape complaints, a single study from 1987 that found 41% of 109 cases were 'false' or some military records from the 1980s...that would be before DOD was halled before Congress several times for its treatment of women, that found high rates of false reporting.

I would say the UK study since it was recent and large and gives a fairly detailed account of how it was conducted is the best example.

Another eroneous 'example' used by the 'false rape epidemic' believers are DNA exonerations. But if you look at the rape exonerations they are about the wrong person being imprisoned, not that the woman lied about being raped, but that the wrong person was identified.

The idea that women routintely lie about being raped to get back at men after they had consensual sex with them is PURE RUBBISH.

In fact, most false rape stories are just like the Duke story. They involve strangers, violence and heroic efforts by the 'victim' to fight off her attackers. In other words, the false rape story is going to conform to the 'good victim' storyline, not the 'bad victim' storyline of I was kissing him and drunk off my ... and he wouldn't stop when I asked him to.

chas s. clifton, 5:16, did you attend Duke in the early sixties when E.M. Forster's "Passage to India" was required reading in English I, taken by most freshmen? It would be an excellent addition and antidote to Professor Allison's Hook-up course, but a bit demanding for a gut course, and, alas, E.M. is a Dead White Male, and that species takes a back seat to current politically correct literary fads.

Race reported in a crime report in Durham? You have got to be kidding me! I live in a neighborhood recently overrun by subsidized housing thugs, and after the 50 or so breakins last year, the usual report would go out "Suspect was 6' tall, average build, wearing a shirt and jeans". Well that freakin' narrows it down.

Rape reports here only mention race when the alledged perp is white - which is less that 10% of the time - that is, 90% of the rapes are committed by maybe 10% of the populace. Durham - the City of Rape.

Race reported in a crime report in Durham? You have got to be kidding me! I live in a neighborhood recently overrun by subsidized housing thugs, and after the 50 or so breakins last year, the usual report would go out "Suspect was 6' tall, average build, wearing a shirt and jeans". Well that freakin' narrows it down.

Rape reports here only mention race when the alledged perp is white - which is less that 10% of the time - that is, 90% of the rapes are committed by maybe 10% of the populace. Durham - the City of Rape.

The issue with acquaintance rape is proving non-consent. So much rhetoric claims that women "don't lie" about rape, so every one so accused is guilty. If 2 people are alone and there is no physical evidence, you can't convict. There has to be reasonable doubt as to what happened.

Do peope stay in bad relationships where the other person abuses them? Of course. Do people make up crap to slag their current or former partners? Of course. How can you tell the difference without physical evidence or an admission from the accused? It's impossible unless you're ideologically committed to a certain position.

This is unacceptable to "feminists", given their ideology and theories. When a significant school of thought construes all heterosexual intercourse as rape you're in exceptionally deep water. The funny thing is that BDSM play is celebrated, even in a hetero couple though of course the preferred situation is either a mixed sex group or homosexual couples. Now what does BDSM play with? And what does it frequently imitate?

Hmmm... So if you have a het couple without leather gear, then this kind of activity is 100% rape, even if the woman "consents", but if you have leather gear and hopefully if you can make it non-traditional it's worthy of celebration.

It certainly seems like prof Allison would be celebrating the alleged activity of the LAX players if only they'd been wearing leather! Soo much idiocy.

>> 5:21 - The FBI rate for all other >> crimes for false reports is 2%. The>> rate of false reports regarding >> rape is, therefore, four times >> higher than any other crime. That >> almost 1 in 10.

> Rare? Unfortunately not.

I'm guessing that you do not agree with the number but are arguing that it isn't a small number even if you accept it.

If we accept the number (which I don't), why would it be four times higher than the stats for other crimes? Could it be that there's effectively an incentive to file false accusations?

That's the problem when you try totip the scales of justice. Unintended side-effects.

What's the count on that 8%?

Answer: 8% too high. Count up the cost of time, legal costs and reputation for that 8%. Anyone that supports aggressive rape prosecution in a way that violates due process should also demand restitution for false claims.

Of course you don't accept the number, it doesn't fit your BELIEF in false rape as common.

Making you no different that Mike Nifong or the Group of 88.

The majority of evidence about rape indicates that false rape charges are not common, despite what you believe. That they would also be higher, even significantly higher than false reports of other crimes makes sense given the emotional dimension to rape and the fact that rape is hard to prove definitively and hard to disprove difinitively.

What's the count on the 92% of legitimate rape victims, of which, not even a majority get their cases to trial, let alone win them? What's the count for the rape victim who loses her case? What's the count for society for failing to stop the rapist, and allowing him to continue raping women?

The problems related to rape: under reporting, victim blaming, difficulty meeting the legal burden of proof are well known and well documented.

The imaginary problem of false rape as commonplace exists in the same dreamworld where the Durham stripper was brutally gang raped by three Duke students, one of whom wasn't on the premises at the time: dreamland.

It sounds to me as if the Sanday Fraternity Gang Rape book is in the same class with Michael Bellesiles's book on gun culture: fabricated scholarship. If the only identified case is Duke, the others being "composites" or whatever, then the data is fabricated. The issue would be to raise an ethical complaint with the chair of Sanday's department, under the scholarly canons that apply to her discipline. (Something similar was done with Ward Churchill; there were no ethical canons directly covering "ethnic studies", so they took the American Historical Association.) Both Bellesiles and Churchill were eventually nailed for ethical violations. It would be a long haul, but I bet you could do the same with Sanday, especially since Instapundit seems to be paying attention.

If crime is that bad in Durham why isn't the city up in arms about it?

Why would the police be pre occupied with hassling Duke students about underage drinking if the place is overrun with thugs as you say?

Well, duh. Real thugs carry guns and shoot people--even police officers. No PO will ever be harmed hassling a Duke student. And think how rewarding it must be to cause problems for those uppity college boys.

I've already commented on the problems with the FBI numbers as have others. You appear to have infinite time to repeat your spiel over and over but I do not.

> This is actually false.> It is my understanding,> for example, that the > false rate of arson > reports is more like 8 > - 10%.

Fine. I'll give you that. What else do you have over 2%. I hope that you will agree that 8% is 8% too many.

What is the cost in terms of time, reputation and legal costs of that 8%?

And of the further additional people that are found not guilty which I don't see quantified in the FBI report?

> Making you no different> that Mike Nifong or the> Group of 88.

Ad hominem fallacy.

> What's the count on the> 92% of legitimate rape > victims, of which, not > even a majority get > their cases to trial, > let alone win them? > What's the count for > the rape victim who > loses her case? What's > the count for society > for failing to stop the> rapist, and allowing > him to continue raping > women?

The 92% number isn't legitimate. Of those there are those that are found not guilty that are not guilty. So we have some number below 92%. But that's only a side issue.

What I asked for is a way to make the falsely accused whole or as whole monetarily as possible. The rape victim, true or false already has the support of society. And maybe some potbangers. And some corrupt people in the CJ system. Do younot have a problem withthe Duke 3 spending $5 million and the rest of the Lacrosse team needing to retain lawyers for a false charge? Do you think that they should bear the cost of a lie?

Why do you have a problem with destroying someones life with no recompense? That reminds me of a certain DA.

> The imaginary problem > of false rape as > commonplace exists in > the same dreamworld > where the Durham > stripper was brutally > gang raped by three > Duke students, one of > whom wasn't on the > premises at the time: > dreamland.

So you're giving an example of a false rape as an analogy of false rape claims being uncommon? That's a pretty strange twist of logic.

I've read the following statistics in many different places but I haven't seen them listed together like this before. It's from Dr. Melissa Clouthier's blog:

I was surprise of how many false rape accusations have been made by several independent surveys reveal that 42% to approximately half of all accusations made are false. Most cases involve divorce battles involving the custody of children, some for revenge for withdraw of affection, monetary gains, an excuse for infidelity, or misidentification.

• According to the FBI, one of every 12 claims of rape filed in the United States are later deemed 'unfounded,' meaning the case was closed because the alleged victim recanted or because investigators found no evidence of a crime.• Howard County Police classified one out of every four rape allegations as unfounded in 1990-91.• The National Association of Schoolmasters/Union of Women Teachers says around 600 teachers a year are falsely accused - a trebling since the 1989 Children's Act.• Citing a recent USA Today article, discussing the miracle of DNA and FBI studies of sexual assault suspects, DNA testing exonerated about 30% to 35% of the more than 4,000 sexual assault suspects on whom the FBI had conducted DNA testing over the past three years.• Purdue sociologist Eugene J. Kanin, in over 40% of the cases reviewed, the complainants eventually admitted that no rape had occurred (Archives of Sexual Behavior, Vol. 23, No. 1, 1994).• 1985 the Air Force conducted a study of 556 rape accusations. Over 25% of the accusers admitted, either just before they took a lie detector test or after they had failed it, that no rape occurred.• 1996 Department of Justice Report, of the roughly 10,000 sexual assault cases analyzed with DNA evidence over the previous seven years, 2,000 excluded the primary suspect, and another 2,000 were inconclusive. • Linda Fairstein, who heads the New York County District Attorney's Sex Crimes Unit. Fairstein, the author of Sexual Violence: Our War Against Rape, says, "there are about 4,000 reports of rape each year in Manhattan. Of these, about 50% simply did not happen."• Craig Silverman, a former Colorado prosecutor known for his zealous prosecution of rapists during his 16-year career, says that false rape accusations occur with "scary frequency." As a regular commentator on the Bryant trial for Denver's ABC affiliate, Silverman noted that "any honest veteran sex assault investigator will tell you that rape is one of the most falsely reported crimes." According to Silverman, a Denver sex-assault unit commander estimates that nearly 50% of all reported rape claims are false.

I believe Mike tyson was set up _ I heard that girl on the radio say "He did not rape me" I an a female - Women need to take more responsibilty for themselves in not getting raped. I read " Well, it should not matter how you are dressed or being out alone - sometimes drunk" But it does matter - leading guys on does not help.

Where are all those 'independent' studies that all found 41% of rape complaints were false?

Oh yeah, they don't exist.

I have a strong suspicion that if we burned witches today many of the true believers in false rape as a running rampant through society would be at the head of the line, denouncing their female neighbors for turning their milk sour and killing their cows.

The crap you have posted on THIS thread is nothing but people's opinions, which, for example in the SURVEY that I posted, shows that PEOPLE OVER ESTIMATE the number of false rape claims. THus, what some cop in Denver or Iowa says is not really relevant as 'research'

All you do is post the same stuff over and over that has already been debunked or put in proper context.

But congratulations, I give up. A huge percentage of women are nothing more than worthless liars who choose to falsely accuse men they had consensual sex with of rape, go through vaginal exams for the hey of it, tell police, judges, DA's and juries every intimate detail of their false attack and then, many of these nuts continue throughout their lives to have problems even see therapists to help them deal with their false rape experience.

Over and out. My best wishes go to the families of the three boys at Duke who were falsely accused and railroaded by an unethical DA.

A rape-free campus - that is not possible in Durham, the City of Rape. But what you won't read is that most of the rapes (90% +) are committed by black men on white women. That's not news, afterall - that's just payback for slavery. All of you rapists who were slaves, please raise your hand. Thanks...

I was a member of the xyz fraternity, althought not during the time in question. It is important to note, that case of "gang rape" resulted in no convictions. The girl's own boyfriend testified against her. Not only this but she didn't think she was raped until a friend convinced her otherwise and pushed her to press charges.

KC, I enjoy your articles, although I saw nothing relevant about your reference the other day to the Coleman Committee, which noted that [the lacrosse players drank too much, but also were good students, with good records of community service, and who treated both their colleagues and Duke staff with respect]. I fail to understand the point you were trying to make. The frat guy who drugged and raped me over 40 years ago exhibited all of those "gentlemanly" qualities ... he even conned my parents.

As for Allison’s course ... one of your readers compared this course to basket-weaving. I agree -- what’s the point? Aren’t there enough red flags and warnings out there already?

Earlier, you mentioned Sanday's book, Fraternity Gang Rape, and her reference to group dynamics. Group dynamics is a basic part of human nature, and certainly plays a huge role in fraternity culture. The mentality of a fraternity is identical to that of a street gang as they both live in a world of symbols, signs, and secret rituals, and God forgive them if they ever break the code of silence. Members of fraternities (gangs) believe that strength comes in numbers and that individuals are powerless by themselves. Just yesterday, it was reported that a fraternity member in the Philippines got put away for 40 years for raping 2 girls in an initiation ceremony. In general, KC, do you think fraternity gang rape, drug rape, and plain old date rape have become epidemic on college campuses?

KC, strangely enough, you seemed to know from the get-go that the lacrosse team was innocent of rape. How did you know so early on? I was one of those people who believed they were "probably" guilty. Yet, I also believed that if a woman chooses to strip naked in front of a bunch of drunken college guys full of testosterone, then so be it! Subjecting yourself to a demeaning environment in which you have little control is just plain stupid. It irritates the hell out of me that any female would willingly put herself in a rape-prone situation without feeling any sense of responsibility for her own safety.

Sanday’s Fraternity Gang Rape described similar situations of women taking no responsibility for their own safety, which is why her book disappointed me. And just recently, a girl at Washington State Univ. reported that she fell asleep in her boyfriend’s room and wound up with somebody on top of her at four in the morning. Well, lordy me, how shocking is that! Get real, lady. Try pulling that stunt in the early sixties.

Now that I've offended any feminist who might be reading KC's column, it's important to point out that I vehemently despise men who intentionally seek out easy prey. Sanday says it perfectly: “Greek life in general contributes to a culture which promotes the exploitation and sexual degradation of women on campus”. I know because I lived through it many years ago before the terms "date-rape-drug and gang-rape” existed. I never saw it coming. Forgive me for tooting my blog -- (www.georgia-tech-rape-victim2.blogspot.com)

[I have a strong suspicion thatif we burned witches today manyof the true believers in falserape as a running rampant throughsociety would be at the head ofthe line, denouncing their femaleneighbors for turning their milksour and killing their cows.]

False reports for rape run muchhigher than other crimes and arequite destructive and costly interms of time, money and reputation.That's what happens when you tiltthe scales of justice in favor ofa person or group. You have theunintended side-effect of falseaccusations.

Anyone old enough to have livedlife as an adult knows that peoplelie. And sometimes for no realreason. And sometimes for reasonsthat a rational person would findvery troubling.

What I've asked for is fundamentalfairness with an awareness of naturalhuman behaviour. If you are goingto detain someone over a charge thatoverrides due process, then compensatehim heavily. Very, very heavily, ifthe accusation turns out to be false.

And punish the false accuser. It seemsto me that you can't ever bringyourself to the point that thishappens. And that to me is verytroubling.

> The crap you have posted on THIS thread > is nothing but people's opinions, which, > for example in the SURVEY that I posted, > shows that PEOPLE OVER ESTIMATE the > number of false rape claims. THus, what > some cop in Denver or Iowa says is not > really relevant as 'research'

The statistics that you posted from theFBI isn't research either. I did not seeyour survey.

One can make a valid argument from anexpert in the field. Courts allow thetestimony from experts in an area withchallenges permitted from the otherside of course. If you want to debatea matter, one could use a survey but onecould also work with experts in the fieldthat deal with the topic at hand. And insome cases, experts have a better handleon the topic than the lay people surveyed.

> All you do is post the same stuff over > and over that has already been debunked > or put in proper context.

That's my impression of the material thatyou've posted with a lack of supportiveargumentation.

> But congratulations, I give up. A huge > percentage of women are nothing more than> worthless liars who choose to falsely> accuse men they had consensual sex with> of rape, go through vaginal exams for> the hey of it, tell police, judges, DA's> and juries every intimate detail of their> false attack and then, many of these nuts> continue throughout their lives to have> problems even see therapists to help> them deal with their false rape> experience.

It doesn't help your case when you tossout strawman arguments like this.

The rates of mental health problems isprobably in the low single digits ormaybe a little bit higher and thesecould certainly account for some numberof false accusations.

If we take your FBI numbers of 8%, thenI hope that you would agree that at least8% of alleged victims do bother to gothrough the trouble that you indicateare strong disincentives. It seems thatin relationships, a lot of nutty thingscan and do happen and those things canbe devoid of full rational thought.

> Over and out. My best wishes go to the> families of the three boys at Duke who> were falsely accused and railroaded by> an unethical DA.

I would also like to see structuralchanges so that it would be far harderfor a false accuser and a bad DA torailroad anyone for something that theydidn't do. I think that they call thisjustice. And if we do put someonethrough hell, that they be properlycompensated to the extent that moneycan provide a partial compensation.

You are a rape denier plain and simple. There are liars and false complaints for every type of crime and probably someone lied about soemthing in every single case.

Only in rape is the fact that 'some women lie about rape' trumpeted to the far corners of the earth. Only in rape is there a belief that the woman must prove herself innocent and worthy before being believed. I can't remember reading a case about a false home invasion complaint, false robbery report or any other false complaint, but undeniably they happen since they are in the FBI's statistical database.

No one would ever start questioning a robbery or car jacking victim by assuming that he or she was a liar and that they had to prove themselves a true victim. But almost every rape case is handled this way.

You continue to talk about the terrible injustice but you don't have any facts to back it up. There is scant evidence that other than cases from many years ago that were prosecuted without benefit of DNA that men are wrongly imprisoned for rape.

The most recent DNA exoneration was of a man who had been convicted of raping an elderly woman in a home invasion. She never even identified him. He was convicted on circumstantial evidence. Does that make her a false accuser? Or a rape victim whose rapist was not convicted.

The evidence indicates that police do a very good job in weeding out the truly false complaints before they get to the trial stage. Where do you think the statistics come from, anyway.

Yet, you remain convinced that false rape complaints and convictions are at epidemic proportions but all you can do is deny the evidence that shows this is not the case and continue to present specious facts and out of context statements or opinions to support your position. Again, it is imaginary facts to support a belief that doesn't hold up to scrutiny.

It is highly ironic that you would tout 'experts' since every expert on rape that is out there says the same thing, that women lie about rape in small numbers, the real problem is unreported rape and in educating the public about the realities of rape in order to do a better job at convicting the guilty. But those "experts" don't count in your worldview because they don't tell you what you want to hear. I wouild also LOVE to see the full content of the quote by the NY prosecutor since she was a pioneer in sex crime prosecution I doubt the context of her quote supports what you try to make it say: that 50% of reported rapes in NYC were false complaints filed by lying women.

> Only in rape is the fact that 'some women > lie about rape' trumpeted to the far corners> of the earth. Only in rape is there a belief> that the woman must prove herself innocent> and worthy before being believed.

This is clearly untrue. Crystal Gail Magnumwas believed by most at the beginning of thehoax. Your assertion isn't a fact and I'd needa fair amount of proof before accepting yourassertion here.

> I can't remember reading a case about a false home> invasion complaint, false robbery report or> any other false complaint, but undeniably they> happen since they are in the FBI's statistical> database.

I follow The Housing Bubble Blogand there has been quite a bit posted aboutmortgage fraud. And some discussion aboutarson related to cars and houses where theowner is upside-down on their loan WRT tothe market value of the asset. There wasa discussion many months ago about an articleon a person that you could hire to torch yourvehicle for a fee. The mortgage fraud problemis so big that the FBI has a system to spotit.

Insurance is an obvious area where those payingclaims have some natural amount of suspicion.See By the numbers: fraud statsfor the statistics on insurance fraud.

The Guilford College Football assault isan example where it appears that enoughdoubt and care about a reported hoax waspresent in questioning the accusers so asto not cause too much damage to the reputationof the real victims. M. Simon's blog entrySources Say: Palestinians Did Ithas a nice writeup on it. In this case,looking at the accusers' backgound isuseful in determining the credibility oftheir claims.

> No one would ever start questioning a robbery > or car jacking victim by assuming that he or > she was a liar and that they had to prove> themselves a true victim. But almost every > rape case is handled this way.

[Rowe said that "the likelihood of being caught[for vehicle arson] has increased tremendously.It used to be a dark secret but the secret isnow becoming revealed. Investigators are nowbeing trained and are networking with theinsurance companies to uncover these crimes."

Rowe, a firefighter since 1994, is in chargeof contacting owners of burned vehicles to make sure their stories add up. While he hasn'tseen any "rotisserie programs," he has heardhis share of lies. Often he will begin hisinvestigation by contacting the dealershipwhere the car was purchased to see the salesjacket (loan contract) of a burned car. If theowner is upside-down, and particularly if theyrecently purchased "gap insurance" to makesure they were fully covered, they fall undersuspicion.]

> You continue to talk about the terrible> injustice but you don't have any facts to back> it up. There is scant evidence that other> than cases from many years ago that were> prosecuted without benefit of DNA that> men are wrongly imprisoned for rape.

Human nature remains remarkably consistentover time. Which is one of the arguments asto why technical analysis of the financialmarkets is useful.

If we use your FBI 8% false accusation rate,though, we have a situation that is horrendousenough.

> The most recent DNA exoneration was of a man> who had been convicted of raping an elderly> woman in a home invasion. She never even> identified him. He was convicted on > circumstantial evidence. Does that make her> a false accuser? Or a rape victim whose> rapist was not convicted.

You would have to look at the particular statsthat you're relying on to determine how thatwas counted.

What did the exonerated man receive incompensation for his time, legal costs anddamage to his reputation though?

> The evidence indicates that police do a very > good job in weeding out the truly false> complaints before they get to the trial stage.> Where do you think the statistics come from,> anyway.

Why should they even get to the trial stage?A person gets accused, arrested, thrown injail, put under the media spotlight, has toincur legal costs, loses his job and has aburden when looking for employment in thefuture.

> Yet, you remain convinced that false rape > complaints and convictions are at epidemic> proportions but all you can do is deny the> evidence that shows this is not the case> and continue to present specious facts> and out of context statements or opinions> to support your position. Again, it is> imaginary facts to support a belief that> doesn't hold up to scrutiny.

I haven't seen the credible evidence thatyou claim exists. If you want to doubt theopinions of experts, it is your right todo so. But please dispense with the emotionalpleas to get others to believe what you do.

> It is highly ironic that you would tout> 'experts' since every expert on rape that> is out there says the same thing, that> women lie about rape in small numbers, the> real problem is unreported rape and in> educating the public about the realities> of rape in order to do a better job at> convicting the guilty. But those "experts"> don't count in your worldview because they> don't tell you what you want to hear. I> wouild also LOVE to see the full content> of the quote by the NY prosecutor since she> was a pioneer in sex crime prosecution I > doubt the context of her quote supports> what you try to make it say: that> 50% of reported rapes in NYC were false> complaints filed by lying women.

I tend to be skeptical about the madness ofcrowds. And in trading, one can do very wellfading the crowd. Especially the experts inthe crowd.

The strangest thing about your presentationsis that you pretty clearly don't care aboutthe true victim of the false accusation. Youdon't care about their losses and make noattempt to provide recompense. You favor anunjust and unbalanced scale of justice whichis exactly the thing that leads to injustice.

This is exactly the problem with this case,whether it be racial or gender-based. Thedeliberate tipping of scales that perversjustice. That attitude is horrible enough.But one adds insult to injury in not caringone whit about the poor person that has beenfalsely accused. That this happens to evenone person is something that should get theaverage person and especially the averageparent, incensed. That you have shown zeroconcern for the true victims of a falseaccusation damages any kind of other pointthat you can make.

There are already procedures in place for assisting those who were wrongly convicted and have been exonerated by DNA, whether for rape or murder or other crimes.

The police do not "compensate" anyone that is investigated, questioned or even arrested when charges do not result. What you want is to treat those accused of rape differently than those accused of other crimes.

We don't compensate OJ Simpson for being "wrongly charged" with murder and we shouldn't. Why should the rape defendant be treated differently? Oh, because you WANT him to be treated differently because YOU believe false rape is common.

I am truthfully much more concerned with the mountain of evidence that says the criminal justice system is not able to convicted rapists who are guilty than with the largely theoretical concept of 'false rape convictions and accusations'

In today's world of DNA testing it is IMPOSSIBLE that the wrong man would be convicted for a crime, if it isn't his DNA then he's not going to be convicted unless there is other evidence or evidence that he used a condom and there is a reasonable, provable explanation for any other DNA found on the victim. Again, your Innocence Project exonerations is another straw man argument.

My main concern is with the statistics that indicate a rapist has a 16% chance of getting convicted, not the statistics that 8% of women MIGHT BE LYING since those statistics concern cases that were not taken to trial let alone resulted in convictions.

> I can't remember reading a case about a false home> invasion complaint, false robbery report or> any other false complaint, but undeniably they> happen since they are in the FBI's statistical> database.

The Susan Smith case where she claimedthat she was carjacked by a genericblack man who also took her kids. Thepolice apparently suspected her by thenext day given the interviews theyconducted. If that was a convincer,asking the couple to do lie detectortests the following day should be theclincher.

One other famous case was the Charles Stewart case where he murdered his pregnant wife, shot himself and claimed a black man did it. The black man was arrested and "confessed" to the crime.

And of course the famous Jennifer Wilbanks and her hispanic kidnapper.

Michael, the following account of rape is true. I am one of many silent victims (during the early sixties) who did NOT tell.

It was drug-rape. I was a virgin. The perpetrator was an upperclassman living on fraternity row (Theta Chi) at Georgia Tech. He was someone I trusted, and I felt safe.

My life was derailed. I never even fronted the rapist because that would mean acknowledging to myself that "rape" had actually occurred. Worse yet, there was a second incident -- this time it was "gang rape", probably an initiation ritual. Nobody can imagine the short term trauma followed by a lifetime of depression, anger, repressed memories, and flashbacks for 43 years.

Jim Dickinson's single most compelling reason for drugging and raping me?

"the constant and overwhelming struggle to convince himself that he liked girls (in that way), and to prove his masculinity to the brotherhood".

> There are already procedures in place for > assisting those who were wrongly convicted > and have been exonerated by DNA, whether > for rape or murder or other crimes.

Tell it to Gerald Amirault of the Fells AcreDay Care Center case. Hopefully you've beenfollowing this blog long enough to know aboutthe very sad condition of this case even after we know that he's innocent.

> The police do not "compensate" anyone that> is investigated, questioned or even arrested> when charges do not result. What you want is> to treat those accused of rape differently> than those accused of other crimes.

I would argue for restitution for many othercrimes where time, reputation and legal costsare incurred by someone completely that iscompletely innocent.

In the case of a false rape accusation, thereis considerably more damage (outside of childabuse, murder, etc.) done to reputation, andcurrent and future earning capability.

> We don't compensate OJ Simpson for being > "wrongly charged" with murder and we shouldn't.> Why should the rape defendant be treated> differently? Oh, because you WANT him to be > treated differently because YOU believe false> rape is common.

That would make for a rather interesting case.

I don't think that the rape defendent should betreated differently. It doesn't matter whetherfalse rape is common or rare.

The real victim is put through hell and shouldbe compensated for it. That you can't see thisreally makes it hard to take you seriously.

> I am truthfully much more concerned with the> mountain of evidence that says the criminal> justice system is not able to convicted rapists> who are guilty than with the largely theoretical> concept of 'false rape convictions and accusations'

Incoherent.

I guess that you don't care about the "theoretical"Duke 3 LAX players as much as CGM.

> In today's world of DNA testing it is> IMPOSSIBLE that the wrong man would be convicted> for a crime, if it isn't his DNA then he's not> going to be convicted unless there is other> evidence or evidence that he used a condom and> there is a reasonable, provable explanation for> any other DNA found on the victim. Again, your> Innocence Project exonerations is another straw> man argument.

1) It has been mentioned here that there are laws insome states that a defendent can be convicted solelyon the statement of an accuser.

2) This particular case shows that DNA results areonly as good as the people that do them and thatreport them.

3) There is a case of convictions where those in jailwant to have their evidence tested after the fact. Inmany of those cases, the officials stated that theevidence was destroyed so they are stuck with theirpotentially wrongful convictions.

4) You have the issue of he-said, she-said.

But the problem is way before conviction. Where youhave to be fingerprinted with your fingerprints thenin databases. And where you have to give a DNA samplewhich is again stored in databases. So you've givenup some of your personal information and privacy toprove that you didn't do something.

And then the issues of your reputation, the arrestmaking it way into the newspapers, your time costs,lawyer costs, damages to your job and future job,your kids having to deal with their parent in themedia, etc. You have to be pretty heartless and cruelto not care about this.

> My main concern is with the statistics that indicate> a rapist has a 16% chance of getting convicted, not> the statistics that 8% of women MIGHT BE LYING since> those statistics concern cases that were not> taken to trial let alone resulted in convictions.

We do have a system with the presumption of innocence.

And who is to say that 16% is right or wrong or too lowor too high. Do you care that people do get convictedwrongly whether it is the wrong person or they arefalsely accused?

I have a son and daughter and am totallyoutraged that someone can accuse threesons, get them arrested and indicted forsomething that they didn't commit. If thelaws permit that then the laws are broken.

On the other hand, I'm very protectiveof my daughter too and I want only thebest for her. There are, of course,monsters out there. But I've seen theCJ system too and there's a ton of crapthat goes on there that I would sayisn't in the best interests of thecitizenry. When you have job securitybased on metrics, you see some prettyodd behaviours. It can be something assimple as parking or traffic ticketsused to enhance town revnue.

Or it can be something like Mike Nigong needing a big case to get elected.

[(1) L. Scott Harshbarger-- MA Attorney General 1991-1999, Democratic candidate for governor in 1998. Mr. Harshbarger was Middlesex County DA at the time of the Fells Acres prosecution, and heavily exploited the publicity in his successful 1990 run for statewide office (Attorney General). In contrast to Earl Warren, who as Supreme Court justice repented of his earlier anti-Japanese racism, Scott Harshbarger so far has refused to admit doubts about the Fells Acres case.]

There was a case a few years ago in the South about a girl claiming that she was raped by two college athletes and she became pregnant and later miscarried. DNA testing cleared the two college students some time ago but her family is suing the two students in civil court. The press has been responsible and has not published the names of the family nor the names of those that she accused. Though I'm sure that locals know the names of those involved.

I would like to see more protections for those that are accused given the sensationalism typically associated with these cases. The media wants their stories to sell advertising but they don't want to look like the huge fools that the are as in the Duke LAX case.

If we can have a rape shield law, then we can have the same thing for those accused.

The leverage accorded a false claim of rape is currently too high and I think that some of the media has realized this and changed their behaviour. Or they're just afraid of lawsuits.

Regarding your issue with fraternaties: I have no real experience with them as the schools that I went to didn't have them. They did have big athletic programs but I thought that those problems were of benefit to the educational environment for the most part. I was working twenty to sixtyhours a week while going to school soI didn't see a lot of that aspect ofcollege life.

You are one of those people that has all the sympathy in the world for the "real" rape victim, except that you rarely find any "real" rape victims, what you find are false accusers instead.

It is true for ALL CRIMES that a conviction can be obtained based on the testimony of a single eye witness. It is up to the jury to decide if the eye witness testimony in their view is compelling enough to meet the burden of proof of beyond a reasonable doubt.

Again, you want to make things different for rape cases. You want the victim's word never to be enough in rape cases even though it can be enough in a robbery or a murder case.

The presumption of innocence is for the judge and jury. It does NOT mean the judge, jury or public are supposed to assume the defendant is innocent, eg. the police made a mistake, the witnesses are lying and the person was falsely accused.

The presumption of innocence simply means that being arrested and charged is not counted against the defendant the charge has to be proven, and the presumption of innocence puts the burden of proof on the state not the defendant.

It would be utterly ridiculous for juries to be told to start out the case assuming the cops had got the wrong guy.

Who is to say that 16% is too low or too high are all the experts involved in law enforcement, rape counseling, psychology and the criminal justice system. If you choose to believe they are ALL wrong about the difficulty of winning convictions and the real problem is lying women clogging up the system, that is YOUR CHOICE.

There is no point in discussion this issue further with you, you are a well spoken rape denier who has I must assume a deep distrust of women and sex in general to be so brutally afraid of women falsely accusing you or other males of rape.

> You are one of those people that > has all the sympathy in the world > for the "real" rape victim, except > that you rarely find any "real" rape> victims, what you find are false > accusers instead.

Please quote me where I've stated this.As far as I can tell, you're just veryattuned to making strawman arguments.

> It is true for ALL CRIMES that a conviction> can be obtained based on the testimony of a> single eye witness. It is up to the jury to> decide if the eye witness testimony in their> view is compelling enough to meet the burden> of proof of beyond a reasonable doubt.

Based solely? Mike Nifong was pretty carefulto make this point. He may have a lot of problemsin how he does his jobs but he has thrown peoplebehind bars.

> Again, you want to make things different for rape> cases. You want the victim's word never to be> enough in rape cases even though it can be> enough in a robbery or a murder case.

I wouldn't take someone's word for something ina robbery or a murder case. Would you take SusanSmith's word in a rape case?

> The presumption of innocence is for the judge and> jury. It does NOT mean the judge, jury or public> are supposed to assume the defendant is innocent,> eg. the police made a mistake, the witnesses are> lying and the person was falsely accused.

As the media, group of 88, Mike Nifong, Brodhead,Nancy Grace, John Edwards, Gottlieb and LinwoodWilson are finding out, it's a generally good wayto go. I assume that you would rather be in thatgroup of people that wants to assume that they areguilty.

> The presumption of innocence simply means that > being arrested and charged is not counted against > the defendant the charge has to be proven, and the > presumption of innocence puts the burden of proof > on the state not the defendant.

It defacto puts a burden on the defendent. If youcan't see that in this case, then you are blind.

> It would be utterly ridiculous for juries to be > told to start out the case assuming the cops had> got the wrong guy.

Strawman.

> Who is to say that 16% is too low or too high are> all the experts involved in law enforcement, rape> counseling, psychology and the criminal justice> system. If you choose to believe they are ALL wrong> about the difficulty of winning convictions and> the real problem is lying women clogging up the> system, that is YOUR CHOICE.

If you believe that such data exists, please postit. I did go through a few books on psychology andpsychiatry last year but was looking for informationon something else. I do not recall seeing statisticsin the areas that you refer to but I wasn't lookingfor them either.

> There is no point in discussion this issue further> with you, you are a well spoken rape denier who has> I must assume a deep distrust of women and sex in> general to be so brutally afraid of women falsely> accusing you or other males of rape.

1) Ad hominem2) Untrue. I never even thought about rape and falseaccusations before this case. But a few posters onthis blog opened my eyes and gave me a sense ofoutrage that this goes on. I have never really dealtwith the CJ system before except on the behalf of afamily member and the process where one can berailroaded is scary.

I don't believe you. You sound, write and cite the same evidence about false rape statistics as all the rest of the typical trolls who post the same exact material on every other blog and every other board in every other high profile rape case.

If you are not a professional rape denier, then I apologize. But I find that even the professional rape deniers do not really know or even believe they are professional rape deniers. They truly believe, despite all evidence to the contrary, that false rape accusations are a bigger problem than rape itself. They truly believe the pendulum has swung 'too far' in rape cases, despite all evidence and conviction rates to the contrary, and that men cannot get a fair trial in rape cases.

I've posted all the data I'm going to. You disregard the FBI because you say it isn't 'research', though I would think raw statistics are harder to politicize than 'research' you disregard the recent UK study of almost 3,000 rape cases because it was 'pussified' you choose to cite the Kanin study when even the author HIMSELF said it should not be used to generalize to other populations, you cite the 15 year old DOD research that has pretty much been discredited given the revelations about sexual assault in the military and the military academies and you ignore the recent surveys of the military academies, you discount multiple national the college surveys that consistently find the same rates of rape and attempted rape. You decry the citing of anecdotal evidence, individual cases and expert opinions and then you do it yourself. But "your" experts are better than mine. You cite quotations and material out of context and you read into statistics things that the authors never put there.

You believe what you want to believe and at heart, you are no better than Mike Nifong. Your belief is based on ideology and not on evidence.

Michael, I can't keep up with you. I cannot figure out exactly what it is you're trying to convey. You said you read my blog, but you didn't seem to have an opinion on my particular account of a horribly brutal rape in the early sixties.

I think what I needed to hear from you (after you read the blog) was an ounce of emphathy. I mean I've been thru a lot of hell as a result of what Jim Dickinson did to me.

Earlier, someone mentioned a lie detector test. I would jump at the opportunity! Soooo, if the Rapist, Jim Dickinson of Greensboro, NC, is reading this, let's get this little "drug-rape" situation out in the open?

> Michael, I can't keep up with you. I > cannot figure out exactly what it is > you're trying to convey. You said you> read my blog, but you didn't seem to> have an opinion on my particular> account of a horribly brutal rape in> the early sixties.

> I think what I needed to hear from> you (after you read the blog) was> an ounce of emphathy. I mean I've> been thru a lot of hell as a result> of what Jim Dickinson did to me.

On the internet, anyone can post anythingthat they want to. If it includes thingslike copyright material or material thatis defamatory, then an injured party cansue to have it taken down and forcompensatory damages.

I develop opinions on matters or websitesbased on data that I see over time. Onyour particular page, there was insufficientinformation for me to make a determinationof what happened in any detailed way withany kind of second-sourcing.

Contrast the site to this blog wherethere are links and quotes from themedia and where information is reasonablyavailable on the web. It is far easier tomake an educated judgement based on what'spublished and a general knowledge ofhuman behaviour.

I am not particularly good at empathy. Iusually let my wife deal with those kindsof things. I'm better at getting practicalthings done and in a role as a problemsolver. I would just assume not pretendto be helpful on a matter when it comes tomost emotional matters.

> Earlier, someone mentioned a lie detector> test. I would jump at the opportunity!> Soooo, if the Rapist, Jim Dickinson of> Greensboro, NC, is reading this, let's get> this little "drug-rape" situation out in> the open?

It sounds like it is too late to file chargesas I'd guess that the statute of limitationshas run out. A civil suit is a possibilityif you can prove it in a court of law. Butyou'd probably need witnesses and memorycan fade over time.

> I don't believe you. You sound, write > and cite the same evidence about false> rape statistics as all the rest of the> typical trolls who post the same exact> material on every other blog and every> other board in every other high profile> rape case.

Well, you can believe whatever you want tobelieve. If you go back in the false accuserthreads, though, you'll find that the statsthat I've looked at all come from thosethreads on this blog.

I've been posting on boards since the late1980s and my topics are mainly on 1) K-12education, 2) technical analysis of thefinancial markets and 3) computer architecture,software engineering and vector programming.Some of my posts are laced with informationfrom these areas.

But your paragraph is just another adhominem fallacy. It shouldn't matter who Iam with regards to argumentation.

> If you are not a professional rape denier, > then I apologize. But I find that even the> professional rape deniers do not really> know or even believe they are professional> rape deniers. They truly believe, despite > all evidence to the contrary, that false> rape accusations are a bigger problem than> rape itself. They truly believe the> pendulum has swung 'too far' in rape cases,> despite all evidence and conviction rates> to the contrary, and that men cannot get> a fair trial in rape cases.

I do a lot of debating every once in awhile and get called all sorts of thingsby people that don't know how to reason,argue, debate or don't have a grasp of thetopic. And I ignore name calling, insultsand the like as they matter nothing tothe argument. From a mathematical pointof view and that's what arguments boildown to if you've studied logic andphilosophy.

I've seen the costs of the criminal justiceand court system to individuals and am justhorrified that this industry can destroy somuch productivity, partially so that it cansustain itself.

As far as fair trials go, I certainlythink that the Duke 3 could have beenconvicted with lesser defense attorneysand a Durham jury. When the CJ systemis gamed and you have a stupid populaceanything is possible. As I said before,look at the Fells Acre Day Care case andsimilar hoaxes that went on around thecountry. Even after it was proven thatit was a hoax, you have prosecurots andmedia personalities that fail to acknowledgeit. And you still have people labeledsex offenders for the rest of their livesand required to wear monitoring devices.There were men and women that wereessentially accused by children that wereconditioned to say what they did bypsychologists and others.

> I've posted all the data I'm going to.> You disregard the FBI because you say it > isn't 'research',

And you're saying that it is? The researchwould tell you the caveats behind the data.But even if we took your FBI numbers, 1 outof 12 people getting their lives messed upis 1 out of 12 too many.

> though I would think raw statistics are> harder to politicize than 'research'

Research can and should depend on statistics.When you establish metrics that people'slivelihoods depend on, you naturally skewthe behaviour of people to optimize thestatistics. If you're a pharmaceuticalcompany and you give a doctor a trip tothe Bahamas for a medical conventionbecause he prescribes a certain quota ofa particular medication, what do you thinkhe's going to do even though there arecheaper and, perhaps more effectivemedication alternatives?

From what I can tell of in Durham,there's a lot of stuff that goes onrelated to maximizing pensions and jobsecurity. I do see this kind of thingin my own small town though I generallydon't pay a lot of attention to it. Butthey need metrics to justify growingemployment.

Very similar to what I see with theteachers unions and administrativestaff. Our state will have a pensioncrisis within the next ten years aswill states around the country.

And we've already had a few tax revoltsover school and municipal spending.

In today's modern life, we optimizeto get as much done as possible andsmall stuff like dealing with the CJsystem can take you or your familyout for a few days or a month or evenlonger. That poor storekeeper thatwas accused of rape and thrown injail didn't really even know thewoman that accused him and his lifewas destroyed over something thatcame completely out of the blue.Her parents indicated that she hadmental problems but they shouldhave explained that to the policebefore they tossed the guy in jail.

Aren't you absolutely horrified thatthis could happen to someone? Do youhave brothers or sons or fathers thatyou worry about that could be falselyaccused? That's part of the outrageover the Duke Lacrosse case. One posterin the Durham newspapers talked abouta black man that was falsely accused,convicted and in jail since the late80s or early 90s asking why therearen't a bunch of blogs calling forjustice and compensation for him tothe tune of what the Duke three shouldbe getting. I absolutely agree withher in that he should be compensatedfrom the highest mountain for theyears that he spent in jail. And notjust some token amount that's set bysome statute.

> you disregard the recent UK study of > almost 3,000 rape cases because it was> 'pussified' you choose to cite the > Kanin study when even the author HIMSELF > said it should not be used to generalize > to other populations,

One can't help but generalize from hisstudy. Sure, there will be variationsfrom place to place but it makes fora starting place for discussion.

> you cite the 15 > year old DOD research that has pretty> much been discredited given the > revelations about sexual assault in> the military and the military academies > and you ignore the recent surveys of the > military academies, you discount multiple > national the college surveys that > consistently find the same rates of rape > and attempted rape.

I have no idea as to what you're talkingabout. I do not recall any such dataposted here.

> You decry the citing of anecdotal evidence,> individual cases and expert opinions and> then you do it yourself.

I use anecdotal evidence to demonstrate a"there exists" which is a predicate logicterm. You use it to generalize to all cses.The predicate logic term for that is "forall"and it is generally something that should beavoided as it is difficult to prove.

> But "your" experts are better > than mine. You cite quotations and material > out of context and you read into statistics> things that the authors never put there.

I'd suggest that you cite my quotes and whatis out of context.

> You believe what you want to believe> and at heart, you are no better than> Mike Nifong. Your belief is based on> ideology and not on evidence.

Nifong was willing to arrest, indict andconvict regardless of the evidence. And hedidn't care about recompense for the accused.

Sounds a lot more like you.

Mike Nifong was never about ideology. Heknew what he was doing. But didn't care.

The burden of proof is lower in civil cases, it is the preponderance of evidence or clear and convincing evidence depending on your state, generally it means you have to prove it was more likely than not.

There is also anecdotal evidence that especially in rape cases civil juries are more willing to believe women because they don't worry about 'sending the nice man to jail' on the 'woman's word alone'...so the burden of proof ande the removal of possible criminal sanctions make people more willing to stick to the law rather than want 'extra' proof as so often happens with rape cases.

There might be a civil statute of limitations as well though, the law treated many things including rape much differently in the 1960's.

I think it is truly HYSTERICAL that I rely on a 2 year old study of almost 3000 rape cases from all over England that was sponsored and vetted by the government which found 3-4% of rape complaints were LIES. This study also found that ONE THIRD of rape cases listed as unfounded by police should not have been....somewhat calling into question the FBI's 8% number as possibly too high, not too low.

You rely on a 20 year old study in a single town of 109 cases to say that 41% of rape cases are lies, yet I am the one that does't stick to the evidence. That is laughable.

I've also told you OVER AND OVER that in science, if your study results cannot be replicated, as they have never been, then your results cannot be generalized and are not particularly useful. If the majority of other similar studies do not find the same results, then chances are there was something amiss in the anomalous finding. The Purdue study falls into that category since its results are not born out by other studies, other experience or anything else other attitudes and beliefs of the uninformed.

It's also a convenient fact you overlook that rape shield laws only came into being in the 1970s and the 1980's as well in the 1980s the statutes removed actual physical force as a prerequesite for proving a rape conviction, now in most states not consenting to sex is all that is required, yet you don't factor any of this into your review of cases and statistics from that time frame.

It is generally acknowledged that until the last decade or so rape victims were routintely disbelieved and harassed by police, as they still are in some cases. That is why rape shield laws came into being and why the law on force was changed, because society realized that juries making decisions on a rape case because a woman used birth control or had previous sexual partners wasn't fair and further realized that when the law said that even if a man admitted the woman said no repeatedly it was not legally rape if no force was proven to be used was obscene.

I asked for the full context of the quote by the New York prosecutor on 50% of rapes in NYC that were reported never having happened.

Thanks for your comment!I'm 95% certain that the evidence, if presented, would be very clear and convincing. Hundreds of details are fixed firmly in my mind (and these memories never waiver). I need no script.

It is not based on "my word alone". Other evidence exists, plus there are 2 other victims. I'm in the middle of writing a book to get down on paper should I croak.

Meanwhile, I have no hesitation in naming the Rapist (Jim Dickinson). You see, although nobody in the brotherhood of Theta Chi during 1962 would break the almighty code of silence; neither would they come to his defense in a defamation of character suit.

I can't find any information about the "civil statutes of limitations for RAPE in the State of Georgia".

But it was not only Rape. In TWO separate incidents, he committed conspiracy, fraud, kidnapping, false imprisonment, rape sodomy ... plus voyeurism (filmed).

I contacted him by phone and registered mail in July of 2005. I'm sure he was stunned at the accuracy of my details. Of course, he denied any wrong doing.

The big three that can result in psychosis are schizophrenia, depression and bipolar. Two other less common categories are post partum depression and post traumatic stress.

In many cases, the problem is a fear. You darkest fear coming out as intrusive thoughts, hallucinations or delusions. And getting bombarded with these thought can drive one insane.

Current antipsychotics disrupt neurotransmitter function and this seems to reduce psychosis or I've heard that it can eliminate it. But antipsychotics have side effects that can be rather unpleasant and they are generally expensive.

Other ways to keep old memories away are staying busy and participating in sports. Kids, work, hobbies, making money, etc. keep me very busy. This morning Iwas out teaching tennis and I will be teaching vector calculus and logic this afternoon.

Raising kids is incredibly timeconsuming as is generating theincome to pay for their futureexpenses and retirement. I usedto publish an newsletter fortraders and enjoyed doing it butat some point, I couldn't justifythe time that I spent doing itWRT family needs.

Rigorous sports seems to providea benefit to the body chemically.It could be a runner's high orthe satisfaction in beatingdistance or performance goals.Tennis is a more anaerobic sportbut you can get a satisfyingworkout through it and the goodfeelings that striking a ball wellsends through your neurosystem.

I cannot imagine carrying aroundstrong and negative emotions andfeelings over the long haul as itgets in the way of life and responsibilities. If we're oldenough, we all have our share ofbaggage and have to find our ownways to shed the baggage.

We're studing the history of philosophy at home with the kids and it's been an eye-opener to them about how people thought about things through history. And how philosophers thought about thinking in the past. I try to talk to themabout thinking about their thinking and optimizing their life and going through life aware of risks andteaching about points of view.As you might imagine, this is a hard thing to do as kids are generally concerned with the present and tangentially concerned about the future.

> I think it is truly HYSTERICAL that> I rely on a 2 year old study of> almost 3000 rape cases from all> over England that was sponsored and> vetted by the government which found> 3-4% of rape complaints were LIES.> This study also found that ONE THIRD> of rape cases listed as unfounded by> police should not have been....> somewhat calling into question the> FBI's 8% number as possibly too high,> not too low.

I think that others have addressed yourUK study in a more current thread so Iwill leave discussion of that for them.

But for arguments sake, let's assume3.5%. What would you like to do for that3.5% that get falsely accused? It isvery hard to take you seriously whenyou are hysterical and do not believein the scales of justice as balanced.

> You rely on a 20 year old study in a> single town of 109 cases to say that> 41% of rape cases are lies, yet I am> the one that does't stick to> the evidence. That is laughable.

Even if I assume your numbers for argumentssake, you are still recalcitrant on thematter of justice being blind, fairnessfor the accused and compensation for thosefalsely accused and prosecution of thefalse accuser. Question: should CrystalGail Magnum be prosecuted for her falseaccusations?

> I've also told you OVER AND OVER that in> science, if your study results cannot be> replicated, as they have never been, then> your results cannot be generalized and> are not particularly useful. If the> majority of other similar studies do not> find the same results, then chances are> there was something amiss in the anomalous> finding. The Purdue study falls into that> category since its results are not born> out by other studies, other experience> or anything else other attitudes and> beliefs of the uninformed.

As has been mentioned in the other posts,studies aren't research.

> It's also a convenient fact you overlook> that rape shield laws only came into being> in the 1970s and the 1980's as well in the> 1980s the statutes removed actual physical> force as a prerequesite for proving a rape> conviction, now in most states not> consenting to sex is all that is required,> yet you don't factor any of this into your> review of cases and statistics from that> time frame.

I really don't anything about the historyof the rape shield laws. Just their currenteffect. You seem to impute motives as ifparanoid.

> It is generally acknowledged that> until the last decade or so rape> victims were routintely disbelieved> and harassed by police, as they> still are in some cases. That is> why rape shield laws came into being> and why the law on force was changed,> because society realized that juries> making decisions on a rape case> because a woman used birth control or> had previous sexual partners wasn't> fair and further realized that when> the law said that even if a man> admitted the woman said no repeatedly> it was not legally rape if no force> was proven to be used was obscene.

argumentum ad populum

The problem with tilting the scales ofjustice is that you encourage gamingthe system. Was rape shield helpful toCGM?

> I asked for the full context of the> quote by the New York prosecutor> on 50% of rapes in NYC that were> reported never having happened.

I am not a library. I'd suggest a tripto a good university library for you tofind the material that you are lookingfor. Alternatively, you could ask on theother thread where there is widerdiscussion.

Did anyone notice that Michael was spouting statistics and inventing acronyms during the middle of the game? Most "men" across America were watching the Super Bowl at that time. Even I was watching the game, and I'm nothing but a woman.

Now .... go back and play with your balls (tennis balls of course).

It has taken me a while to realize you are not worth of anyone's attention.

> Did anyone notice that Michael was > spouting statistics and inventing > acronyms during the middle of the > game? Most "men" across America > were watching the Super Bowl at > that time. Even I was watching the > game, and I'm nothing but a woman.

KC Johnson said...

As a Patriots fan, I am boycotting this year's Super Bowl.

I guess it was just KC and me.

> It has taken me a while to > realize you are not worth of > anyone's attention.

If you seriously want to pursue a civil case against your assailant you could either contact a private lawyer or talk anonymously to a rape crisis counselor, who could probably give you some baseline advice on the legal aspects of how a civil case would work, what the rules of evidence are in your state and how the length of time would impact your chances of success.

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I am from Higgins Beach, in Scarborough, Maine, six miles south of Portland. After spending five years as track announcer at Scarborough Downs, I left to study fulltime in graduate school, where my advisor was Akira Iriye. I have a B.A. and Ph.D. from Harvard, and an M.A. from the University of Chicago. At Brooklyn College and the CUNY Graduate Center, I teach classes in 20th century US political, constitutional, and diplomatic history; in 2007-8, I was Fulbright Distinguished Chair for the Humanities at Tel Aviv University.

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"From the Scottsboro Boys to Clarence Gideon, some of the most memorable legal narratives have been tales of the wrongly accused. Now “Until Proven Innocent,” a new book about the false allegations of rape against three Duke lacrosse players, can join these galvanizing cautionary tales . . , Taylor and Johnson have made a gripping contribution to the literature of the wrongly accused. They remind us of the importance of constitutional checks on prosecutorial abuse. And they emphasize the lesson that Duke callously advised its own students to ignore: if you’re unjustly suspected of any crime, immediately call the best lawyer you can afford."--Jeffrey Rosen, New York Times Book Review