As for whether the discussions here and on other sites are "relevant" to the "real world" of climbing, I would say first that folks are going discuss what interests them, and incessantly droning on about the fact that those discussions don't matter isn't going to make one iota of difference. But beyond that, I would note that the history of science, and particularly of mathematics, has shown over and over again that the most "irrelevant" topics have turned out to have critical "real-world" uses, and that there is absolutely no way to judge "relevance" at the time of a discussion, nor is there any way to predict what kinds of ideas will arise as a result of a discussion. What we've learned about human progress is that you have to let people investigate and discuss what interests them, and out of this soup comes the world's most important advances. It is true that the price paid is the propagation of much that is unimportant, but no one has found a way to extract the nuggets without sifting through the sand.

It would be absurd to suggest that scientific breakthroughs will result from a discussion about the utility of rappel backups, but I believe that the same basic principle, which is to say that progress is most likely to result from unfettered discussion, applies. So in addition to the fact that no one is going to pay the slightest attention to someone who thinks they can dictate what can or cannot be discussed, I think that such discussions, in total if not individually, are intrinsically valuable.

i personally think its quite "important" to understand that all this dribble on what people argue about isnt whats going to kill you ...

imagine if a newer climber came on some intraweb forum, and looked at the threads that have the most views/posts, what would they see?

people going on and on about how to climb this way or that way, or use this gear or that gear ... or youll be "stupid", "dead", "gumbied", etc ...

the reality is that the things people argue over and over again on the intrawebs have little relevance to climbing in the real world ... yet, read it, youd think that if you didnt do it this way or that way youre "unsafe"

there ARE things that people should worry about ... such as belaying, rapping, going out and climbing stronger thus increasing your margin, rockfall, ground falls, weather and other objective hazards, etc ... ... but these generally receive MUCH LESS attention, if any

use your brain, learn the basic skills from a real live person, practice em over and over again ... climb as much as you can ... thats what will make you "better" and "safer"

not listening to intraweb geezers arguing about this gear or not using that (perfectly fine) technique

I have to say, out of all the internet forums I follow (not limited to rock climbing) this site has the rudest, nastiest, and most ridiculous members and posts/discussions that rarely have any interesting content. Probably why I hardly come on here anymore. I chalk it up to this site's obvious name. And given such an obvious name, it attracts a lot of newbies and beginners. And for every newbie's "dumb" question there's 1000 replies that forget the question and just argue over the answers and opinions. Makes me think of this...

"We are blessed to be living in an age when we have a global communications network in which idiots, assholes, and total and complete wastes of fucking human life alike can come together to give instant feedback in an unfettered and unmonitored online environment. What better way to take advantage of this incredible technology than to log onto the Internet and insult a complete stranger?"

The mods here suck. They let topics go wild and turn into back-and-forth battles that really turn people off from having intelligent discussions. Other rock climbing sites, you see this a lot less. And again, I think it's because their names aren't as obvious as "rockclimbing.com" so there are less uneducated climbers. In fact, I see on other sites people using their real names and regularly selling gear, which would provide personal info.

And a quick shout out to bearbreeder since he's following this thread. You actually have some decent thoughts and input. But it's too bad more often than not, you have to throw in all sorts of childish language (interwebz, yer gonna die, I'm gonna die, , RC.com experts, etc.) and argue your points to death to the point where I can no longer take you seriously.

...The mods here suck. They let topics go wild and turn into back-and-forth battles that really turn people off from having intelligent discussions. Other rock climbing sites, you see this a lot less. And again, I think it's because their names aren't as obvious as "rockclimbing.com" so there are less uneducated climbers. In fact, I see on other sites people using their real names and regularly selling gear, which would provide personal info...

Are you claiming that your real name is njrox? Oh well, nobody uses their real name here.

I have to say, out of all the internet forums I follow (not limited to rock climbing) this site has the rudest, nastiest, and most ridiculous members and posts/discussions that rarely have any interesting content. Probably why I hardly come on here anymore. I chalk it up to this site's obvious name. And given such an obvious name, it attracts a lot of newbies and beginners. And for every newbie's "dumb" question there's 1000 replies that forget the question and just argue over the answers and opinions. Makes me think of this...

"We are blessed to be living in an age when we have a global communications network in which idiots, assholes, and total and complete wastes of fucking human life alike can come together to give instant feedback in an unfettered and unmonitored online environment. What better way to take advantage of this incredible technology than to log onto the Internet and insult a complete stranger?"

The mods here suck. They let topics go wild and turn into back-and-forth battles that really turn people off from having intelligent discussions. Other rock climbing sites, you see this a lot less. And again, I think it's because their names aren't as obvious as "rockclimbing.com" so there are less uneducated climbers. In fact, I see on other sites people using their real names and regularly selling gear, which would provide personal info.

And a quick shout out to bearbreeder since he's following this thread. You actually have some decent thoughts and input. But it's too bad more often than not, you have to throw in all sorts of childish language (interwebz, yer gonna die, I'm gonna die, , RC.com experts, etc.) and argue your points to death to the point where I can no longer take you seriously.

Anyway, my 2 cents on rudeness and the decline of RC.com.

The decline of RC.com huh? What we really need are some more trolls to bring this site back to it's glory days.

IMO - you look at the other sites and the SNR is just as bad, people everywhere giving their opinion on stuff they shouldn't be giving their opinion on. Same thing happens in real life too though. It's amazing how many gumbies there are out there that have been climbing for 5 ro 10 years.

The mods here suck. They let topics go wild and turn into back-and-forth battles that really turn people off from having intelligent discussions. Other rock climbing sites, you see this a lot less. And again, I think it's because their names aren't as obvious as "rockclimbing.com" so there are less uneducated climbers. In fact, I see on other sites people using their real names and regularly selling gear, which would provide personal info.

What would you like the moderators to do?

If some user posts an answer, and this answer contains come correct information, and some wrong information (wrong according to whom, in the first place?), should we delete the post? Edit it? Should we only let people like Rgold answer questions, since his answers are usually detailed and reasoned? Should there be an "expert" for each field, so DouglasHunter is answering questions about training, Oncehardman is answering questions about injury treatment, and jt512 is answering nutrition questions?

Then it becomes an ask-the-expert website, and not a forum.

It is the nature of the forum that there is a lot of back-and-forth, and the topics evolve in whatever direction that people answering the question take it.

We cannot police every response in every detail.

Take bearbreader's combativeness in the anchor thread, for example. Combativeness aside, is it true that a lot of things can be used for anchors? Sure! I think everybody knows that in real life sometimes you use things that are not optimal, because that's what you have on hand, and everybody probably has done so.

Would I use a PAS, if someone handed it to me? Sure! I also used the rope itself, the quickdraws, the slings... Have I used a daisy to anchor myself at some point in my climbing? Yes. I don't think daisy is the best thing to use to clean a sport climb, but I also have done things that may not be "the best", because I didn't have other options at the time. I have on some occasions gone in direct into one bolt only, have been on climbs where there WAS only one bolted anchor, have bailed off gear that may not have been picture perfect, etc. etc. etc.

BUT... when a n00b is asking, what should I get for cleaning anchors ( on a sport climb), a daisy or a PAS? The most rational response is, neither. There is absolutely no reason to get a daisy, and there is no need to spend money on PAS, when a cheaper and most logical option is the quickdraw (that the guy will have to get, if he is sport climbing) or a sling with locking 'biner (again, something that most people would get, or have already, if they are planning on setting TRs).

So, every response that bearbreeder posted in that thread (and every response to his posts) is completely unnecessary to answer the OPs question, regardless of the tone of his posts, or the merits.

...The mods here suck. They let topics go wild and turn into back-and-forth battles that really turn people off from having intelligent discussions. Other rock climbing sites, you see this a lot less. And again, I think it's because their names aren't as obvious as "rockclimbing.com" so there are less uneducated climbers. In fact, I see on other sites people using their real names and regularly selling gear, which would provide personal info...

Are you claiming that your real name is njrox? Oh well, nobody uses their real name here.

I dunno, how about removing the aforementioned 'pissing' contests from threads?

Maybe not standing for the childish name calling?

How about this, would you let someone act / talk like they do here in person? If not don't stand for it here.

Yeah, that sounds like a good start. I mean, isn't that would mods should be doing?

I will say again that I rarely use RC.com anymore because it's a website (forum) overrun by bullies who just want to prove their point while degrading someone else's statements/opinions. Almost everyt thread ends up going off topic. I read/follow/post/discuss topics on other sites daily and don't come across half the nonsense that I do here. It's like grade school playground arguing vs. college classroom debating. I don't want to discuss rock climbing here because 9 out 10 times discussions turn to insults and the whole thread goes off topic. You don't make friends here. You want a user's feedback on your site? Well, there it is.

I can see this already becoming yet another RC.com pissing contest so I'm not going to add any more fuel to the fire. You can take my statement for what it's worth (accept that's how I feel, and deal with it) or you can post reply after reply breaking down every little thing I said and defend, argue, and belittle it (typical RC.com responses to anything not found to be agreeable).

Better moderating doesn't necessarily fix the problem either. Look at Mountainproject. I'd say that there is more moderating of posts over there than here and that some (not all) of the negative bullshit is kept in check there. But there is just as much misinformation spread over there as there is here, only people get called out on much less and much less aggressively. So it's a "happier" place to be in that I think they are less tolerant of trolling and name calling and such...but at the same time, misinformed posts and "facts" are perpetuated just as much or more than here. I think there is something to be said for getting a smackdown when you say stupid shit. Not sure what the answer is, and I'm not sure there is one.

It's good to know that these are your views and no the sites. It is worth pointing out that the mods are the face of this site and your posts represent the site management.

Wouldn't being a combative jerk be categorized at rude?

If you and I where talking about the average grade of sport climbs across the country and someone jumped in and said 'you don't know shit Lena, only a weakling would think most sport climbs are rated 5.?'

Wouldn't you call that being rude, offensive, and inappropriate? I would.