Quote of the Day: Boston Bans Toy Guns Edition

“Kids shouldn’t have them on the street. It’s sending a bad message. We’re asking parents to take the guns away before police have to.” – Boston Mayor Martin Walsh in City launches ban on replica guns in public [at bostonherald.com]

When, exactly, was it that the police started executing kids with toy guns? It certainly never happened in the 60’s and 70’s when I was young. I’m sure I’ll get some heat for this one, but I can’t think of a single excuse for police to shoot at kids with toys. And yes, I mean the really real looking ones too. Whatever happened to putting your life on the line? Are police cowards nowadays?

Not giving heat, but there should be no reason a child points a toy gun at an officer. A gun, even a toy gun is a “perceived threat”, I wouldn’t want a gun pointed at me. There are also acts of stupid violence, hey little kid if you want to be in our gang, you gotta shoot somebody here take this gun.

The cops are not at fault per se. It is the training methodology and one simple example is the “force continuum” idea.

For example the “force continuum” says meet the situation with just enough extra response to “control” if there is verbal resistance meet it with a louder voice, if there is resistance meet it with more resistance.

“Lethal Force — Officers use lethal weapons to gain control of a situation. Should only be used if a suspect poses a serious threat to the officer or another individual.

Officers use deadly weapons such as firearms to stop an individual’s actions.”

If the officer sees someone with a gun (toy gun in this instance) and perceives a lethal threat the force continuum model allows immediate lethal response. It is not hard to imagine an officer misreading a situation with a child that believes themselves to be “innocent”

The cop’s bosses have been militarized, often at overseas ‘training camp’ weekends, then those guys come back here and inculcate that us-vs-them mess into the local officer’s heads as if ‘danger’ is around every corner and the citizens are an ‘enemy’.

Ever see the line of “No More Hesitation” Shooting Targets? Little Kids, Pregnant Women, and Retired People, many clearly in their Own Homes, .. used for gunfighting reflex (no thinking required) training for the cops.

Tamir Rice was the size of a small adult, and the cops were primed by reports of him “pointing it at people.” (Same accusation made falsely against John Crawford III.)
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Tamir Rice was pointing his replica firearm at people. In fact, he mostly pointed it directly at the head’s of people and from close range. Now, either the people didn’t notice or knew it was a replica, because non reacted as one normally would with a firearm pointed at them, but it’s not in doubt that he pointed the replica firearm at people.
There just were not any people around when the police arrived so there was no need to stop that close to him.
In John Crawford’s case, there is no evidence he pointed the replica at anyone.

@ Xanthro: Not sure what you mean by “no evidence”. True, the camera vids show Crawford didn’t point the BB gun at anyone, but the 911 caller clearly said he was pointing it at people, and specifically at children. I still think that guy should be strung up.

If I was a parent in an urban area I suspect that would probably try to keep my boy(s) from playing with toy guns out and about. Nervous police are a reality and one must acknowledge reality or maybe pay a price.

I think the difference is that many toy guns now are made to look and feel as realistic as possible, and the only thing that identifies them as toys is that blaze orange tip. Some air pistols could probably even fool some readers of this site; I used to have a Walther BB pistol that was pretty convincing, and would absolutely get me shot if I drew it on a cop (or any other average person).

Cops are special- as in above the law and above the Tax Payers who pay their wages.
The Tax payer Citizen is to just obey and pay.

In Oklahoma they have passed a law that charges you with a Felony if you get into a fight with an off duty cop even– knowing full well that many at least 25 to 35% are thugs , so now you can’t even defend yourself against one of the elitist when he gets drunk and assaults you or your wife/girl friend.
They also made it a Felony to make your home Burglar or break in resistant because they can’t just come kick your door in– even though to many times they have the wrong house.
Again– just pay your taxes and do as your told like a good little nobody.
This BS is getting ridiculous and they wonder why people have NO respect for cops or law makers

I’d like to see the numbers of people shot by cops for holding toy guns compared to the people shot by cops for holding anything at all else or even nothing at all whatsoever.
They really shouldn’t be blaming innocuous behavior of an individual for the wholly reckless behavior of a cop. A better case would be citing facsimile guns used in robberies. Here we have the case “our cops are jumpy lunatics so bend over every which way as to not set them off even though the object in your hand is inconsequential.”

Every time I drive into or through Mass, I see the blue “Massachusetts Welcomes You” signs. And every time, I think it should say “Massachusetts – Fun and Civil Rights end here. Keeping it that way since 1620.”

That’s actually a very long answer and I’m replying to you by my phone, so I’d suggest reading about Shay’s Rebellion, the Massachusetts Constitution, and how our Constitution got ratified state by state.

Mass’s own constitution protects the collective right to bear arms, not the individual’s.

People who would vote in this character to public deserve what they get. Will the mayor also make the cable and TV stations block all shows with guns in them? Will he make his police officers carry concealed or make them patrol unarmed? Will he ban guns at military funerals?

This is a tough one. The ordinance, which a search on my phone could not locate (but i did find the committee report), appeared to only ban replicas that appear to be handguns. The most likely offender will be airsoft pistols.

It doesn’t ban replica rifles, which should leave a Red Ryder in safe space (for now).

If found on a minor, the gun is returned to a parent who comes to the station; adults have to pick them up after 24 hours. Fine is $50, no arrest. If the goal is just awareness of the risks presented to youth, I think I’d be fine with the takeaway from minors, no takeaway from adults, no fine, no jail.

I’m sure there is more, but I haven’t had time to chew over this. It was filed several months ago, but this is the first I’m hearing of it and I still haven’t read the ordinance.

Do I think a blanket ban is necessary or appropriate? No. But, if a narrow ban, as I discussed, is needed to give police the authority to take toys away from children who are not using the toy appropriately and return them to their parents, then so be it.

Growing up, if we were irresponsible with a toy, it was a likely to be taken by my parents as it was by another adult (or the police). Those other adults would give the toy to my parents who could hang on to it until I showed I would be responsible with it.

I don’t know how strictly this will be enforced, but if it is just used to deal with irresponsible kids (of all ages), I’m ok. If it’s used to discourage reasonable and socially appropriate behavior, it will go too far.

You know you all have to get a life. They are trying to do is not ban “toy” guns, they are trying to ban stupid. I was listening to a very pro gun broadcast talking about this issue. A couple of high school girls pulled along side another car at a stop, pulled out an airsoft gun and pointed it and dry fired. They thought it was hilarious watching peoples reactions. The only reason they did not end up dead was that it not that easy to pull out a gun from 4 o’clock in a car. The biggest problem with the toy guns is kids treat them like toys, but they can look very real. Growing up I had a 1:1 model of a Mauser broom handle (for a Han Solo blaster project) and at the age of 12 in the 80s I knew NOT to take it outside and wave it around. We had other “toy” guns we played with, but then again, NOT stupid.

They should have a toy gun buyback where every boy that turns in his toy gun gets a free doll. I seem to remember there used to be a doll that peed in it’s diaper. That would be perfect, turn in you toy guns and get a free bed wetting doll. That’ll learn ’em, thinking it’s OK to be a boy in O’Bama’s Amerika.

So what happens when, like in Chicago last week, a guy tries to commit a robbery with a replica handgun? Because certainly he’s not going to obey the city ordinance banning them in public, he’s going to commit a robbery! When the robbery occurs and he is shot/captured/killed, and they find out he had a replica, what do they do then??? Ban them altogether – not just out in public? Let’s make more stuff illegal, cause that always works right? And when the replica handguns are completely banned inside city limits, then what happens when the next guy commits a robbery with one?? Make it a felony to possess a replica firearm? Ok, so they do that and then another guy robs a store with a replica handgun because, he doesn’t care, he’s going to commit a robbery! He gets zapped by the cops and then what’s next? Door to door confiscation of all firearms, replica or not, just to be sure?

That’s how you get there people. It’s not hard, it’s what happens when you don’t think things through and act on your feelings. They’ll never get it. To them, it’s all a matter of making the right combination of laws and restrictions on your liberties in the name of safety and security.

Let’s not be fooled into thinking that this ban on toy guns is for the children. Boston has to ban toy guns to protect kids from cops. The toy guns are not the problem. The cops are the problem, and Boston’s mayor just sold out all the people of his city.

As much as this has a direct impact for firearms, this is what these people do. They ban things. Most of the time, it revolves around a (1) person who behaves irresponsibly. You see, if one person can do it, then millions of people could do it to. Not that they will…mind you, but if they wanted to, they COULD!! Ahhhhhhhhhhhhh!
Obviously, the solution is to ban the bad THING. Remember the Lawn Dart? One(1) irresponsible asshole misbehaves, ergo, we are all potential irresponsible assholes. Under this dehumanizing, demeaning philosophy, anything can be banned. These gutless wonders must endeavor to ban any THING’s that might stand in their way. Naturally, the ability to defend yourself from people like them, has got to go. As does their horror that children might grow up thinking that they have an inalienable right to keep and bear arms. Get ’em while they’re young.

Toys should be toys, not look like the real deal.
Cops have enough to do, too many times dumb people use toys in a robbery.
Let’s all regain our sanity shall we?
I’m ok with this so far.
Any legal overreach should be quickly dealt with.
Move along….shows over.

And yet, several generations of children have lived and survived into adulthood playing with realistic-looking toy guns. When I was a kid, we had some seriously real-looking cap guns (the kind with the red plastic strip caps), that didn’t even have orange tips on the barrels. And yet, here I stand, never having been shot by a cop who thought a kid playing in the park was involved in an armed robbery heist.

Then there’s all the people who have been shot by a cop for holding a phone, or a wallet, or any number of non-gun objects. I don’t think the toy guns are the problem…

Yeah back in the day(60’s) we all played with guns and pointed them at everyone. Had the Mattel 38 that looked(and felt) quite realistic-but this ain’t the 60’s. Cops are out of control and so are lots of young men. I wish the world was different but it’s NOT. And I live just south of Chiraq and lots of “kids” are criminals-and they execute 9 year olds as gang retaliation. Heck I don’t even go in a bunch of Chiraq neighborhoods because of the huge rise in teen(and younger) crime…

The only way to 100% Guarantee the police won’t shoot anyone with a replica gun is to take all guns away from the police. People have been shot pointing a finger, holding a wallet, holding a cell phone, holding toy guns, holding replica guns… How about some education for the public… maybe some TV safety ads sponsored by The Boston Police Dept letting people know that a Gun is a Gun is a Gun and is always treated as if it is real and loaded at all times. If you play with a gun of any kind in public, you are at risk of getting shot if you don’t show respect to authorities.