Now I know what to do with all the broken axles from snowblowers etc. Nice hard steel, better than HSS. Have to be careful not to over heat or have to anneal them after. Oh the possibilities are great and I always say never throw good material away, proof again that they eventually find a use.

Reminds me of my first turning exercise in the 7th grade of school, some 70 years ago==same similar types of tool, just the old carbon steel. Scrapper type of turning, which I believe you are showing as a correct method of use. Live long enough=====Regards

Reed- On my last trip to Doug's web site I bought one of these because of your high regard of these in other videos of yours. Your advice has been thoughtful and solid every time I have come here with questions. Thanks for this tutorial I had no idea on how to use this. I'll have a go right now!

"A man who carries a cat by the tail learns something he can learn no other way" -Mark Twain ...

IP Logged

Ron Sardo

WR AdministratorWR PatronOffline

Chief cook and bottle washer

Posts: 9,347

DrumsPennsylvaniaUSA

PM 3520

Re: Fluteless gougesReply #9 - Sep 20th, 2013 at 9:05pm

Impressive Reed.

I made my first fluteless gouge around 2007~8 and now have a handful of different sizes and shapes. Each are an important part of my tool kit.

While I'm sure I'll never abandon my bowl gouges, I'll admit that I've often wondered how much the flute ready adds to the tool. With the exception of chip extraction your video really show that the flute really doesn't add that much.

You did just about every cut that any bowl gouge can do along with some cuts a skew can do. The fact that there is more steel on the tool means there is a lot less vibration which is a major consideration. Plus not having to cut a flute means its a whole lot easier for a person to make their own tools.

"A man who carries a cat by the tail learns something he can learn no other way" -Mark Twain ...

IP Logged

Ed Weber

WR AdministratorWR PatronOffline

Posts: 5,381

WiltonCaliforniaUSA
Gender:

JET 1642Grizzly G0584

Re: Fluteless gougesReply #13 - Jan 25th, 2014 at 1:41pm

Good explanation and video, although still not my cup of tea.Quote:

While I'm sure I'll never abandon my bowl gouges, I'll admit that I've often wondered how much the flute ready adds to the tool. With the exception of chip extraction your video really show that the flute really doesn't add that much.

I still find these tools to less forgiving, more prone to catch or skate if the angle is off.I'll stick with my gouges.

Ed,If it is skating off, then that is more like the skew when you come off the bevel, though with the steeper bevel, the skating won't be so dramatic. I can't say that I have ever had a catch with one of these. High shear angle, and drop the handle slightly and you can't get it off balance. If you lived close by I would have you over for a session.

I love my Robust lathes. I have a Beauty and a Liberty. I wanted to step up from my old PM 3520A for more horse power. The Beauty comes with a 3 hp motor. I wanted a sliding headstock. I wanted made in America. Oneway was out, no sliding headstock. Serious was out for the same reason. VB36 was out because it just said 'bowl' lathe no matter the configuration. I also love the telescoping legs so you can set your lathe to any height without having to put it on risers. If you see one in person, the construction is second to none. If I ever set up a woodturning school, I may have other lathes so people can experiment, but I can't see many improvements that could be made. While not an engineer by trade, I do have the 'if it ain't broke, take it apart and fix it any way' syndrome. There are a lot of people who buy the sliding headstock and pivoting headstocks and never use that feature. I always slide it down to the end and can stand up straight and keep the tool in close to my body.

Ed,If it is skating off, then that is more like the skew when you come off the bevel, though with the steeper bevel, the skating won't be so dramatic. I can't say that I have ever had a catch with one of these. High shear angle, and drop the handle slightly and you can't get it off balance. If you lived close by I would have you over for a session.

Reed, I don't have an problems using these tools at all, I don't use them, hence no problem.While I do appreciate the offer, it would be a short session, I'd rather sink a few cold ones instead of cursing at those evil tools. Like I said, not my cup of tea. I can get all the different cuts I need with the tools that like me without trying to tame those retched things.

"Right now I'm having amnesia and deja vu at the same time.I think I've forgotten this before." - Steven Wright

IP Logged

Leo De Bruin

Active MemberOffline

Turning pro as soon as I retire

Posts: 186

Gender:

Re: Fluteless gougesReply #23 - Jul 8th, 2018 at 1:14am

It is now 4 yrs or so since the last post. I have just watched Robo's video for the second time and I am thinking about ordering one from Doug T. to do the inside of my bowls. Anything that cuts down on sanding floats my boat!

I am interested in feed back from anyone who uses this tool on a regular basis now? I am thinking the tool has been around for awhile now should be more people using it or was it just a fad ie latest and greatest!

Might be helpful to share description of areas/results that require sanding. For example, just in transition zone? Just across flat bottom? Outside also? What sizes of bowls?

For example, when making salad mixing bowls 5-6" deep I was always hollowing from the middle out and from the top down, so I was sneaking up on final wall thickness over 10 minutes or more. The top of the bowl was warping as I was working, so the last attempts to take a smooth shaving from the rim to the transition zone never took a continuous cut at the top of the wall. And thin shear scraping didn't solve the problem. About a year ago I realized warping was the problem, and I would work the bowl interior down in 1" or 1 1/2" stages, and take the final inside cut at the top of the side before it warped. In other words, my technique was the problem, and adding another tool would not have made any difference.

One of the conundrums of woodturning, well maybe life in general, every piece is different. On bowls up to maybe 12 inches, I can take a 'one final pass' on pretty much the whole inside of the bowl. Some woods yes, some no. I have figured out that, especially at higher speeds, the wood will elongate in the same direction that it will warp because of the grain orientation. Another thing that can make them feel like they are warping is too much bevel pressure, which again causes that elongating along the warping lines/grain orientation. I am still trying to get the zero bevel rub pressure figured out. "The bevel should rub the wood, but the wood should not know it!" No idea who said that one, but it was attributed to some skew master.... Too much bevel rub can also set up harmonic vibrations that can be quite loud...

so I was sneaking up on final wall thickness over 10 minutes or more. The top of the bowl was warping as I was working, so the last attempts to take a smooth shaving from the rim to the transition zone never took a continuous cut at the top of the wall.

Short answer would be to use dryer wood. but the issue you had is not uncommon.In addition to what Reed mentioned there are also variables like where the blank was cut from the tree. Was it in compression before being cut. Internal stress is relieved when you remove material, this can cause warping. The difference between the moisture content of the wood and the ambient humidity can cause warping. If it's dry in your shop and the wood has a high moisture content is can cause warping The greater the difference, the greater chance of warping.(I have low humidity in the summer months, at night the humidity is in the 40's and during the day it drops to the teens. It's almost impossible to turn green wood without it warping. I rarely turn green wood)As you mentioned Don, this is a method of work or technique problem, even possibly a wood problem but not a tool problem.

I've purchased two of these over the past few years...a 1/2" and a 1". I think we all have inherent likes and dislikes for tools...perhaps it's a technique that just doesn't feel comfortable or that the tool just doesn't fit our eye. I too prefer my gouges but I'll ocassionally break out the 1" fluteless gouge where the traditional gouge just isn't working and/or the grain is exceptionally squirrely. I prefer the larger version for its mass and what I can do with it on a high shear angle. In either case and for myself, the fluteless gouge is sort of my tool of last resort and if nothing else, it does keep me from having to reach for the old 80-grit gouge.

I think we all have inherent likes and dislikes for tools...perhaps it's a technique that just doesn't feel comfortable or that the tool just doesn't fit our eye.

Bingo!

IMO fluteless gouge is an incorrect name for these tools.No flute means it's a chisel, much like the skew is a chisel. These are single bevel curved edge chisels but still chisels, not gouges of any kind.