“Living backwards!” Alice repeated in greatastonishment. “I never heard of such a thing!”“—but there’s one great advantage in it, that one’smemory works both ways.”— Lewis Carroll, Through the Looking-Glass

I think it's strange how our "mainstream scientific community" will so readily state "historical records were written by our intelligent ancestors this" and "historical records were written by our intelligent ancestors that..." but, when our intelligent ancestors start documenting how knowledge was handed down from beings from the heavens, all of a sudden not one mainstream scientists believes our ancestors were "intelligent."

I can't figure out how mainstream can say in one breath that our ancestors were smart enough to know how to build great things. And the very next breath claim that when they went to write those historical events down, our ancestors, mysteriously, became the dumbest creatures on the planet. I would like to actually hear a solid theory on how our ancestors can go from very intelligent humans creating complex structures, to morons who can't tell the difference between make believe and historical events.

Like some of the links provided here have clearly shown, these tribal leaders recorded historical events and even trading accounts. It is clear, when you look at any one tribe, they themselves make the distinction on when they were talking about legend/tradition and when they were talking about historical events that happened to their people.

Mainstream's answer is to simply ignore it and call it myth because mainstream minds cannot fathom a world where intelligent life in the universe may have visited this planet and shared certain knowledge. As told by the same intelligent ancestal humans who built the strange and complex structures that mainstream credits them building.

Came back to edit:..had some more thoughts on this after posting in another thread about this conversation.

It's simple, either our ancestors were intelligent enough to build and document these complex structures or they weren't smart enough to build or write it down. You can't pick just 1/2 that equation, ignorning the rest to suit your personal bias.

They built it and told us how they did it or they didn't build it and couldn't tell us how it was done. Which then brings up the logical question, who did build all those ancient structures.??

Personally, I believe our ancestors were smart enough to learn from the beings from heaven and our ancestors built the complex structures as they learned. Then they wrote about their achievements and how those acheivements came to be.

Last edited by SmokinJoe on Mon Mar 14, 2011 10:03 pm, edited 3 times in total.

Dawkins thinks belief in God is an excuse to evade thinking in the scientific world. Sadly, he is ignorant to the list of christian scientists who have contributed & founded many of the sciences he himself believes in. How ironic.

Now, let's be clear here. "Vimanas" are mentioned in the Ramayana and the Mahabarata (they are NOT mentioned in the Vedas (though the Rig-Veda does mention what may be "mechanical birds" but these do not carry passengers and have no pilots).

Now, the Ramayana is a sancrit epic poem (like, say, Beowulf). It is about the abduction of Rama's wife by a demon and how she eventually is rescued.

The Mahabarata is ALSO an epic poem (and neither of them are "Vedas") The Mahabarata is the one containing the most familiar of all Ancient Texts of India (The Bhagavad-Gita (or "Song of God") where Krishna (an avatar of Vishnu) and Arjuna have a chat on the just before a battle. (They'd have missed the fight) and Krishna lays down the rap that would eventually come to be known in the West as "Krishna Cosnciousness" with those guys who used chant and ask for donations and block you from getting on your plane.

I'm very clear on this. The 'gods' from the stars traveled in flying chariots. This is mentioned in the Vedas. That isn't an opinion, it is a fact.

I specifically was refering to the flying vehicles, not vimanas. The vimanas came later in the epics. It could be that the vedic accounts of gods in flying chariots could have inspired the vimanas mentioned in the epics, but make no mistake, "gods from the stars" and "flying chariots" are in Vedic literature.

The vedas also describe the rituals that are prescribed in worshipping each demigod. Those that worship the demigods will go to the demigods' respective planets. Those that seek inner spiritual knowledge, will seek Krishna, the supreme spiritual center and true knowledge.

With regard to poems....the place known as Troy in Homer's Illiad was once considered just a mythical place in an epic poem. We now know the poem is a mix of myth, legend and historical fact.

My personal opinon is we will learn this method of writing is repeated elsewhere on our planet by our ancient, and wise ancestors.

Dawkins thinks belief in God is an excuse to evade thinking in the scientific world. Sadly, he is ignorant to the list of christian scientists who have contributed & founded many of the sciences he himself believes in. How ironic.

Joe I don't know where you get this crap about the Hindu Gods and flying vehicles from the stars being mentioned in the Vedas. None of this is in there. No more than the so-called "space flight of Enkidu" turns up in THE EPIC OF GILGAMESH. It only ever happened in Eric Von Daniken's imagination.

The people who produce the popular books with all these so-called "facts" can rely on one thing---most of their readers are unfamiliar with the original texts and are usually too lazy to check that what they are reading is accurate.

I may be wrong about the Vedas, it could be the post vedas or puranas. But I most definitely was not talking about vimanas nor the epics. I'm already aware of what is in those texts.

I've been looking into ancient cultures for years. My research is not crap nor is my belief that I've come to. This is based on over 30 yrs of researching most of the known ancient tribes' own beliefs about gods and the universe.

From the Dogon tribe to the Greeks and from native indians (of which I'm part Cherokee) to the yoruba, chinese, assyrian and even the creation stories of India, all talk about gods coming from the stars. From this, these encounters (stories) get weaved in and out of many poems, myths, legends, and historical accounts from every tribe on this globe.

Creation stories around the world have this similar theme. It is a fact. India is not exempt from this at all.

I'm not too lazy at all. I'm the perfect amount of lazy, not too lazy, and not a litttle lazy, I'm just about the right amount of lazy.

And I love the sacred-text site. I've gotten a lot of information from that site and have posted that link many times here over the past 10 years. It's where I get a lot of my so-called "crap" from. It looks like we frequent the same "crappy" site.

I wonder how many lazy readers go there?

Last edited by SmokinJoe on Sun Oct 31, 2010 5:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Dawkins thinks belief in God is an excuse to evade thinking in the scientific world. Sadly, he is ignorant to the list of christian scientists who have contributed & founded many of the sciences he himself believes in. How ironic.

As in my previous post, I was wrong. It IS the post-vedas, or puranas, that I was referring to. I got my vedas/post vedas crossed.

The vedas are about spiritual knowledge, rituals, & sacrifices calling upon the gods to bestow upon us things like power, wealth, love, strength, etc...

Later, one learns to seek spiritual awareness over material things. That is the journey.

Anyway, it's the puranas that I was talking about concerning the flying chariots, the many worlds in this universe, etc....

But, also to be clear, I was not talking about vimanas nor the epics. As previously stated, I'm aware they also talk about this as well. I'm also waiting on a response from the email address shadow provided in her post. Not so much to verify what I already know in that I was wrong, but to see if they can provide some insight from their interpretations.

At any rate, my apologies to shadowcass, she is correct on the vedas.

Dawkins thinks belief in God is an excuse to evade thinking in the scientific world. Sadly, he is ignorant to the list of christian scientists who have contributed & founded many of the sciences he himself believes in. How ironic.

Or...or...just maybe the ancients recounted exactly what they saw and experienced and they weren't just a bunch of idiots who, oddly, could build pyramids and track the stars but made up fantastical sci fi stories in their spare time.

Exactly right, Shekem. I've made that point numerous times over the years. How is it that mainstream science emphatically states that our ancestors were highly intelligent enough to build the pyramids, but somehow their I.Q's inexplicably dropped to ZERO when writing about how they gained this knowledge.

Really????

We are suppose to believe they went from highly intelligent heroes in building complex structures to low brow zeroes when writing down their own history? Now that is hard for any logical thinking person to believe, much less accept.

It's truly the most ludicrous position for any scientist to take. Whoever actually thinks smart people became stupid when writing, they should rethink their own education. I laugh everytime some PHD tries to relate that smart humans built the pyramids, but those same smart people didn't know how to accurately record history. Allegedly, our ancestors only knew how to write make believe stories on how they did it. LOL.

That crap makes no sense to any intelligent, thinking person. It is truly more plausible to believe that our ancestors were intelligent enough to follow the instructions on how to construct the pyramids and were equally intelligent enough to record how they did.

Occam's Razor would follow that the latter is the simpler explanation. Albeit, harder for scientists to accept. But acceptance or not, as recorded history states, our ancestors learned how to build complex and amazing structures. And, our ancestors recorded exactly how they did it.

Dawkins thinks belief in God is an excuse to evade thinking in the scientific world. Sadly, he is ignorant to the list of christian scientists who have contributed & founded many of the sciences he himself believes in. How ironic.

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