Icons will be added to assist users with finding log and wallet daemon directory locations.

Monero Hardware / Official Hardware Wallet

Developer boards have been slightly delayed.

FFS for a proper enclosure is live.

An NFC radio test version is expected to be available at DefCon.

Purism has reached out to collaborate with the Monero team further - especially our hardware team.

v0.12.1 builds are expected to be available on May 9th. These 'may' be test builds.

Will enable easier support for Ledger Hardware Wallets.

You can use a Ledger wallet w/ the GUI as long as it's generated by the CLI

Deprecation of Payment ID's continue. Migration to integrated addresses in the short term and SubAddresses in the longer term.

Full Log

1:02 PM <_Slack> <rehrar> 1. Greetings
1:02 PM <@ArticMine> Hi
1:02 PM <+moneromooo> stoffu: ^
1:02 PM <xmrscott[m]> Howdy
1:02 PM <Alex_LocalMonero> Hello.
1:02 PM <rbrunner> Hoi zäme
1:02 PM → TinusMars joined (510bcefc@gateway/web/freenode/ip.81.11.206.252)
1:03 PM <vtnerd> hi
1:03 PM <ErCiccione> Hi!
1:03 PM <xmrmatterbridge> <oneiric> hi
1:03 PM <xmrmatterbridge> <el00ruobuob> Hi
1:04 PM <_Slack> <rehrar> 2. Brief review of what's been completed since the previous meeting
1:05 PM → bomb-on joined (~bomb-on@139-142-17-89.fiber.hringdu.is)
1:05 PM <_Slack> <rehrar> Watchoo foo's been up to.
1:06 PM <sarang> hiyo
1:07 PM <sarang> Some of MRL went to an IEEE workshop that had some Monero focus
1:07 PM <sarang> Learned of some funny bizniss that evil remote nodes can do, ways to represent rings, and, most interesting, refund txns
1:08 PM <gingeropolous> evil public remote
1:08 PM <gingeropolous> well, i guess one you control could get compromised
1:09 PM <sarang> The proposed attacks mean that such a node could present corrupted mixins and determine true spend
1:09 PM <gingeropolous> ouch
1:09 PM <sarang> But we already present a warning to the user in the case that the known spend is corrupted when returned by the node
1:10 PM → rehrar joined (~user@174-28-239-11.albq.qwest.net)
1:10 PM <rehrar> I have arrived
1:10 PM <Alex_LocalMonero> Hello there.
1:10 PM <sarang> The only way it provides any advantage is if the node selectively returns false outputs, and this only statistically works a small amount of time
1:10 PM <@fluffypony> so remote nodes are bad, mmmkay?
1:10 PM <sarang> So I consider our current mitigation to be fine
1:10 PM <sarang> lol
1:10 PM <gingeropolous> lol
1:10 PM <xmrmatterbridge> <michael> $ whoami(msvb)
1:10 PM <sarang> But yes, you shouldn't use an evil remote node anyway
1:10 PM <rehrar> oh nice, we have michael from hardware too. Update from you guys?
1:11 PM <@ArticMine> There is enough deterrence since an evil node is then exposed
1:11 PM <sarang> ArticMine: yes, a node that pulls this crap a lot will get blacklisted by the community
1:11 PM <sarang> I consider the research useful, but not a practical problem
1:12 PM <sarang> It was also responsibly disclosed, so thanks to the researchers for doing it right
1:12 PM ⇐ Sterl quit (~Sterl@c-73-153-26-15.hsd1.co.comcast.net) Ping timeout: 248 seconds
1:12 PM <xmrmatterbridge> <michael> rehrar: I'm on mobile, kind of read only.
1:13 PM <rehrar> no worries. People can always check out your Taiga for updates
1:13 PM <rbrunner> What is it whith those mobiles :)
1:13 PM <sarang> Any other questions/comments for MRL?
1:14 PM <rehrar> is the most secure setup to run your own full node behind a username and password, and connect to it with your mobile devices?
1:14 PM ↔ Alex_LocalMonero nipped out
1:14 PM <tjfkfoaofbrcdj> any status updates on bulletproof audits?
1:15 PM <sarang> rehrar: probably
1:15 PM <@ArticMine> There is actually an advantage to using a remote node even of one also runs a full node
1:15 PM <sarang> ArticMine: how?
1:15 PM <sarang> blending in with many other txns?
1:15 PM <@ArticMine> Hiding your IP from the network
1:15 PM <sarang> tjfkfoaofbrcdj: Kudelski and QuarksLab have begun their work
1:15 PM <@ArticMine> When sending a tx
1:15 PM <rehrar> sarang: can you quickly check when the other guy starts also?
1:16 PM <sarang> Benedikt was mid-May IIRC
1:16 PM <sarang> I'm looking up his more accurate statement in my email
1:17 PM <sarang> Benedikt estimates he will start on May 21, finishing by June 4
1:17 PM <rehrar> ArticMine: mitigated with Kovri after release, correct?
1:17 PM <sarang> Kudelski will finish by mid-July
1:18 PM <sarang> I'll be checking in with all auditors this week (and weekly thereafter)
1:18 PM <@fluffypony> fyi: my bandwidth is abysmal (64 bytes from 8.8.8.8: icmp_seq=14 ttl=53 time=795.821 ms) so I'm just observing in silence
1:18 PM <@ArticMine> Yes of course but Kovri is not out yet
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1:19 PM <rehrar> ArticMine: one day....
1:19 PM <rehrar> anything else to report as being done the past couple weeks?
1:19 PM → Zames joined (~Mutter@110.54.251.179)
1:19 PM <dEBRUYNE> I guess I can provide a few updates on the GUI if peeps are interested
1:20 PM <sarang> fo sho
1:20 PM <Alex_LocalMonero> Please do.
1:20 PM <dEBRUYNE> All right. I'll first start with the critical bugs in GUI v0.12
1:21 PM <dEBRUYNE> - There was the bad_cast issue, which resulted in a subset of Linux users being unable to properly run the GUI
1:21 PM <dEBRUYNE> i.e. the GUI wouldn not connect to the daemon that was running already
1:21 PM <dEBRUYNE> - A subset of users reported that the GUI was laggy (even when using a remote node). This has been fixed by stoffu. It was caused by the tracking stuff
1:22 PM <dEBRUYNE> Stoffu also made a commit that ensures the GUI uses the same daemon connection, which should improve stability and connectivity
1:22 PM <rehrar> I love when you talk like that dEBRUYNE ;)
1:23 PM <dEBRUYNE> Then for Windows users GUI v0.12 wasn't using proper graphic fallback. We're busy fixing the Win environment and are waiting on pazos for some test results. It's a bit of a pita since QT has to be built statically
1:23 PM <dEBRUYNE> ^ Those are all fixes for issues in GUI v0.12
1:23 PM ⇐ Zames quit (~Mutter@110.54.251.179) Client Quit
1:23 PM <rehrar> *applause*
1:23 PM <dEBRUYNE> Then dsc_ / dsc2 has also improved the Show status window + the receive page, as can be seen from here:
1:23 PM <dEBRUYNE> https://github.com/monero-project/monero-gui/pull/1359 (receive page)
1:24 PM <dEBRUYNE> https://github.com/monero-project/monero-gui/pull/1341
1:24 PM <dEBRUYNE> Also a few other bugs present in GUI v0.12 have been fixed, but mostly minor stuff
1:25 PM <dEBRUYNE> I guess that's it. One more thing I wanted to talk about is rbrunner's Windows installer. I think we should really add it for GUI v0.12.1
1:25 PM <dEBRUYNE> It's (i) easier and more intuitive for the user and (ii) actually somewhat more secure
1:25 PM <rehrar> add it to the website, you mean?
1:25 PM <+moneromooo> Can you expand on (ii) ?
1:26 PM <dEBRUYNE> moneromooo: Let me check what rbrunner said
1:26 PM <rbrunner> Ah, I can take over, if you like
1:26 PM <dEBRUYNE> rehrar: Yes. So we would have the installer + the portable .zip file
1:26 PM <dEBRUYNE> Oh he's here actually :P
1:26 PM <dEBRUYNE> Nice
1:26 PM <dEBRUYNE> Sure rbrunner, go ahead
1:26 PM <rbrunner> The installer copies the monero files to a place in the file system where you only can change them with admin rights
1:27 PM <rbrunner> Namely C:\Program Files
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1:27 PM <rbrunner> So they do not just lay around somewhere in the filesystem ...
1:28 PM <rbrunner> That's not revolutionary, but the proper way, the way it should be
1:28 PM <+moneromooo> So you have to get admin rights to install, and that makes it more secure ?
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1:29 PM <+moneromooo> Naively, I'd think that makes it less secure.
1:29 PM <rbrunner> Yes, because the access is restricted to a well-defined point in time
1:29 PM <@ArticMine> Adin rights in Windows is trivial. Most malware knows how to get it
1:29 PM <rbrunner> And after that it's somewhat protected
1:29 PM <+moneromooo> Oh, you mean otherwise you need admoin rights every time you run it ??
1:30 PM <rbrunner> No, don't think so
1:30 PM <@ArticMine> Also if the files are always in the same place it makes it easy for malware
1:30 PM <rbrunner> But anyway, every program that is a "good citizen" on Windows goes there
1:31 PM <rbrunner> See how much power Linux gains from everybody respecting the norms.
1:31 PM <@ArticMine> Good citizen with respect to Microsoft's vision of DRM
1:31 PM <rbrunner> IMHO we should do likewise on Windows
1:31 PM <rbrunner> But that's probably not the main point of the installer, of course
1:32 PM <rbrunner> It's simply easier for noobs, and with much easier updates
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1:32 PM <rbrunner> I included also icons to easily access logs
1:32 PM <rehrar> that's definitely the bigger one, yes
1:32 PM <rbrunner> and the wallet directory
1:32 PM <rbrunner> and starting the daemon directly
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1:32 PM <rbrunner> and low-graphic wallet start
1:32 PM <rbrunner> and and and :)
1:33 PM <rbrunner> Really, the thing won't hurt
1:33 PM <dEBRUYNE> If I recall correctly, most Windows programs give the user an option to run an installer or use a portable version
1:33 PM <dEBRUYNE> Imo we should do too, especially if the installer provides greater convenience
1:33 PM <rbrunner> Yes, and of course we don't take away the ZIP
1:33 PM <rehrar> alright. michael is now able to write and give a hardware report if we're down to hear it
1:33 PM <ErCiccione> is the installer to make it for 0.12.1? i would implement it in the guide if yes
1:34 PM <ErCiccione> *is the installer going to
1:34 PM <rbrunner> That's the funny part: You can build the installer basically *any time*
1:34 PM <rbrunner> there are nearly no interdenpendencies
1:34 PM <rbrunner> Just take the content of the current release ZIP, pack it, release it - *any time*
1:34 PM <msvb-lab> rehrar: Oah yes, thanks.
1:34 PM <dEBRUYNE> ErCiccione: Imo we should add the installer for 0.12.1. We've been trying to add it since 0.11.1.0..
1:34 PM <rehrar> let's do it.
1:35 PM <rehrar> I'll put it on the website
1:35 PM <msvb-lab> An order of a bunch of developer boards is in but on hold due to a chinese problem (picking up at the DefCon Beijing office.)
1:35 PM <rbrunner> The current installer for Helium Hydra could have been published in January, February, March ...
1:35 PM <msvb-lab> And our FFS to get a proper enclosure was turned live by Luigi (thanks!) a couple days ago.
1:36 PM ⇐ tjfkfoaofbrcdj quit (b84bd42d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.184.75.212.45) Ping timeout: 260 seconds
1:36 PM <msvb-lab> On a related note, we're testing a hardware design that can be considered a wallet, but is an insecure NFC radio version.
1:36 PM <rbrunner> rehrar: I'll put it on the website <- Thanks for that already now
1:36 PM <msvb-lab> To be given out at DefCon Vegas.
1:36 PM <msvb-lab> That's all for a hardware team status report, thanks. Any questions?
1:36 PM <rehrar> rbrunner: it just takes someone to move it from talk to action :D
1:36 PM <ErCiccione> rehrar: would be good to have the guide on the website, at least last releases (next one is 1.1)
1:37 PM <rbrunner> Yes, it's like that most of the time :)
1:37 PM <rehrar> hardware questions?
1:37 PM ⇐ Hardy8Pacocha quit (~Hardy8Pac@ns334669.ip-5-196-64.eu) Ping timeout: 256 seconds
1:37 PM <rehrar> do we have a timeline for 1.1 btw?
1:37 PM <msvb-lab> rehrar: Yes, hardware questions, unless you want to talk about what purism has asked.
1:37 PM <rehrar> not at the moment. It's still developing.
1:38 PM <ErCiccione> PDF of 1.1 will be out right after GUI 0.12.1 . It's already mostly done
1:38 PM <rehrar> Preannouncement that Purism wants to collaborate with us further, especially our hardware people
1:38 PM ⇐ al-maisan quit (~al-maisan@opentransactions/monetas/al-maisan) Quit: See you later..
1:38 PM <rehrar> oops ErCiccione, that's what I meant. Do we have a timeline for 0.12.1?
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1:39 PM <+moneromooo> pony said on the 9th IIRC. Not sure if still up though, he said there'd be preliminary builds, which there weren't so far.
1:39 PM <rehrar> care to comment mr fluffypony?
1:39 PM <ErCiccione> rehrar: afaik we have 3 PR ready to be merged. After those are merged: code freeze -> refresh all translations and embed guide -> 0.12.1
1:39 PM <rehrar> fluffypony: "I'm not a crook" *holds up V sign*
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1:40 PM <rehrar> this will be helpful to push it out since afaiu ledger will officially realase after that
1:41 PM <rbrunner> And getting rid of those syncing bug, right?
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1:41 PM <dEBRUYNE> I'd like for 0.12.1 to be released soon as well (if the devs say it's ready)
1:41 PM <dEBRUYNE> It will significantly reduce the amount of support that is required :p
1:42 PM <dEBRUYNE> + it will finally enable users to use Monero on Ledger
1:42 PM <rehrar> alright, deadline tomorrow
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1:42 PM <dEBRUYNE> :D
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1:42 PM <dEBRUYNE> On a side note, you can use a Ledger wallet w/ the GUI as long as it's generated by the CLI
1:42 PM <@fluffypony> I'm on bad Internet until later this coming week, so the plan is to finalise it then
1:43 PM <@fluffypony> I think we're mostly done with merges on the CLI side
1:43 PM <dEBRUYNE> For the GUI too fwiw
1:43 PM <+moneromooo> There's just 3753, it seems useful, but a bit dicey maybe.
1:44 PM <rehrar> Anyways now that that's settled (somewhat), let's move on for a bit here. Alex_LocalMonero wants to talk about payment IDs. He's quite supportive of them and wants to give everyone a high five for their invention.
1:44 PM <rehrar> then we can talk PRs
1:44 PM <Alex_LocalMonero> Thank you rehrar.
1:44 PM <dEBRUYNE> I'd like for that one to be included moneromooo. Still everyday someone seems to be on the wrong chain :P
1:44 PM <Alex_LocalMonero> Honorable gentlemen.
1:44 PM <Alex_LocalMonero> Your fluffyness.
1:45 PM <Alex_LocalMonero> It is our opinion at LocalMonero that separate payment IDs (SPIs) need to die.
1:45 PM <Alex_LocalMonero> SPIs increase the complexity of Monero, a common complaint for many new users.
1:45 PM <Alex_LocalMonero> SPIs increase the amount of support that is required for us to process.
1:46 PM <Alex_LocalMonero> SPIs create a loss of productivity for everyone involved.
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1:46 PM <+moneromooo> That's the same point said three times.
1:46 PM <Alex_LocalMonero> Not exactly.
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1:46 PM <+hyc> I thought payment IDs were already deprecated
1:46 PM <endogenic> yeah well why could just write moneromö instead
1:46 PM <vtnerd> so you want it to be always an integrated paynent id?
1:46 PM <Alex_LocalMonero> Yes.
1:46 PM <+moneromooo> They are, and it's the destination's choice what to use, so...
1:47 PM <Alex_LocalMonero> Most exchanges still use SPIs, unfortunately.
1:47 PM <endogenic> anything can be put into extra tho right?
1:47 PM <Alex_LocalMonero> One exchange, I believe it's Bitfinex, even started charging people $20 for recovering deposits that forgot to include payment IDs.
1:47 PM <+moneromooo> Yes (within the size limit).
1:48 PM <endogenic> so they could technically still keep using them
1:48 PM <Alex_LocalMonero> Which is why I believe they need to completely spliced out in the RPC and CLI and GUI wallets.
1:48 PM <endogenic> we moved to generating integrated addresses rather than SPIs fwiw
1:48 PM <endogenic> and short PIDs which are entered are automagically treated as an integrated addr of course
1:48 PM <+moneromooo> No. They stay for backward compatibility. I'd be OK with a warning though.
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1:49 PM <Alex_LocalMonero> moneromooo, the value from backward compatibility is far outweighed by the loss of productivity that is caused by the increased complexity.
1:49 PM <endogenic> well there's the argument that long pids are a privacy issue somehow
1:49 PM <@fluffypony> endogenic: agreed
1:49 PM <endogenic> they rely on the client generating random and unique data
1:50 PM <@fluffypony> we should just put in a notice of deprecation with a timeline
1:50 PM <rehrar> do subaddresses also not address this issue?
1:50 PM <@fluffypony> say something like 2 year's time
1:50 PM <@fluffypony> rehrar: yes
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1:50 PM <rehrar> in that sense, we should almost get rid of integrated addresses altogether
1:50 PM <rehrar> subaddresses are just so easy from a UX perspective
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1:50 PM <Alex_LocalMonero> I would argue against that.
1:50 PM <Alex_LocalMonero> Integrated addresses are much better for us to manage.
1:51 PM <endogenic> subaddresses haven't been audited enough either
1:51 PM <rehrar> Alex_LocalMonero: the eternal struggle of easier for the user vs easier for the vendor
1:51 PM <@fluffypony> we should deprecate PIDs in favour of integrated addresses over like 2 years, and then deprecate those in favour of subaddresses over the next 2 years
1:51 PM <endogenic> would agree, fwiw ^
1:51 PM <rehrar> fluffypony: Monero's got like another half year left in the tank at best
1:52 PM <Alex_LocalMonero> Aren't subadresses less scalable?
1:52 PM <@ArticMine> That seems like a good plan
1:52 PM <endogenic> Alex_LocalMonero: on a scanning side, maybe, but we can look at techniques
1:52 PM <@fluffypony> and we don't remove support for receiving / parsing them
1:52 PM <@fluffypony> just for creating txs with them
1:52 PM <@ArticMine> Yes very important
1:52 PM <Alex_LocalMonero> That's perfect.
1:53 PM <sarang> endogenic: on the scanning side it reduces to a hash lookup
1:53 PM <@fluffypony> Alex_LocalMonero: unless you have 500 million customers you're not going to worry
1:53 PM <@fluffypony> scanning side is plenty scalable
1:53 PM <Alex_LocalMonero> How dare you assume we won't have 500 million customers?
1:53 PM <@fluffypony> ^^ what sarang said
1:54 PM <@fluffypony> lol
1:54 PM <rehrar> to get this moved along more quickly, there can be educational support instead of changing the code as well
1:54 PM <sarang> If anything the scanning is just annoying if you have to do wallet recovery
1:54 PM <rehrar> if we get things like Monero Integrations to only offer integrated addresses, and all other vendor tools to do the same, then it will be a natural transition.
1:55 PM <Alex_LocalMonero> May I ask for the SPIs to be phased out within 1 year instead of 2 years?
1:55 PM ↔ @Guest77943 (was Guest77943; opped) nipped out
1:56 PM <rehrar> 2 years is like a millineum in cryptocurrency world
1:56 PM <Alex_LocalMonero> Exactly.
1:56 PM <+moneromooo> You'd need all exchanges to have switched within that time. I don't see that happening.
1:56 PM <+moneromooo> You could say it's their problem, true :)
1:56 PM <rbrunner> 2 years like a millenium won't stay that way
1:56 PM <Alex_LocalMonero> Exchanges aren't going to start switching until the last week in any case, I guarantee it moneromooo.
1:56 PM <@fluffypony> what if we put it out as a disclosure
1:56 PM <cryptochangement> rehrar: oops I was supposed to get Monero Integrations on only integrated addresses like a couple weeks ago and got distracted lol
1:56 PM <rbrunner> Things *have* to calm down
1:56 PM <@fluffypony> ie. it's a privacy risk, here we're responsibly disclosing, here's the list of exchanges we contacted
1:56 PM <@fluffypony> here's the list that have taken action
1:57 PM <dEBRUYNE> fluffypony: that would basically be a recommendation for exchanges to either use integrated addresses or subaddresses right?
1:57 PM <Alex_LocalMonero> Yes.
1:58 PM <Alex_LocalMonero> With a tack of passive aggressiveness.
1:58 PM <rehrar> full on aggressiveness is the way to go here
1:58 PM <rehrar> "don't you know Monero buys hitmen?"
1:58 PM <@ArticMine> Given the long term plan the recommendation should be sub addresses
1:58 PM <Alex_LocalMonero> I agree. I think this in conjunction with a 1-year phasing out timeline for SPIs is the best way to go.
1:59 PM <Alex_LocalMonero> We won't bare 2 years of these goddamn SPI tickets.
1:59 PM <jdoejfbeibridje> can we do a ffs for subaddress audits?
1:59 PM <Alex_LocalMonero> They are clogging up our support way too much.
1:59 PM <rehrar> Alex_LocalMonero: why do your business not do integrated only?
1:59 PM <Alex_LocalMonero> We do do integrated only.
1:59 PM <+moneromooo> Just charge them for the time. Good solution, and extra revenue stream.
1:59 PM <@luigi1111> Hard to stop using them before exchanges stop requiring them
2:00 PM <rehrar> ^ luigi1111 this is indeed the thing
2:00 PM <rehrar> we have to force the hand of the exchanges
2:00 PM <Alex_LocalMonero> The problem is that people want to withdraw from LocalMonero to places like Bittrex that use SPIs
2:00 PM <rehrar> in essence, we are putting our usability for users at their mercy
2:00 PM <rehrar> force the hand of the exchanges. They will switch over. Then we can move on in peace.
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2:00 PM <pigeons> jdoejfbeibridje: I'd like to see more review of subaddresses as well
2:01 PM <+moneromooo> What's your problem then ? Once you've coded that, it's a one off. People forget to use it ? Then they cry to bittrex, not you.
2:01 PM <rehrar> I don't think there's any denying that SPIs are a UX nightmare
2:01 PM <+moneromooo> And bitrex can charge them ^_^
2:01 PM <Alex_LocalMonero> The move from integrated addresses to subaddresses doesn't incur a loss of productivity or increase in complexity.
2:01 PM <iDunk> Bittrex it too afraid to ever touch anything Monero unless they have to.
2:01 PM <Alex_LocalMonero> The move from SPIs to integrated addresses will lead to an overall increase in the productivity of the entire Monero ecosystem.
2:01 PM <@luigi1111> Polo did finally upgrade to integrated a while back
2:02 PM <Alex_LocalMonero> Yes, thank god.
2:02 PM <@luigi1111> But it's a good guess bittrex won't ever without some motivation
2:02 PM <Alex_LocalMonero> 100%
2:02 PM <rehrar> I agree with Alex that many exchanges won't do anything until they are forced to, and at the last second at that
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2:03 PM <Alex_LocalMonero> They'd rather charge people $20 to credit the SPI-less deposits instead of updating their Monero-interfacing software.
2:03 PM <Alex_LocalMonero> Which is a loss to the economy.
2:03 PM <msvb-lab> Whoever can understand monero development well and will be at DefCon Las Vegas, please submit a speaking proposal for our Monero/BCOS village at:
2:03 PM <Alex_LocalMonero> And a negative effect.
2:03 PM <msvb-lab> https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLScnDevCkvDNQpfO-ktisAtWIx7z3M_6zX0qSbhDVRsIVEIF4w/viewform
2:03 PM <Alex_LocalMonero> On the user experience.
2:03 PM <rehrar> yes Alex_LocalMonero and this alone could give users a bad taste in their mouths about Monero period
2:04 PM <Alex_LocalMonero> A newb is like "this Monero thing is crazy, with Bitcoin I just send to an address and that's that, with this Monero there's this weird field and because I didn't know about it now I have to pay bitfinex $20"
2:04 PM <Alex_LocalMonero> "Screw this, I'll never use Monero again"
New messages since you tabbed out
2:04 PM <iDunk> rehrar: that came out right :)
2:04 PM <rehrar> :P
2:05 PM <rehrar> the crazy thing is, the solution is already invented and ready to go
2:05 PM <rehrar> it just needs to be enforced
2:05 PM <Alex_LocalMonero> Exactly.
2:05 PM <UkoeHB> If it's hard to move exchanges to integrated, it will be almost impossible then move them to subaddresses.
2:05 PM <Alex_LocalMonero> Subaddresses aren't such a huge upgrade for vendors.
2:05 PM <Alex_LocalMonero> So there's no need to enforce it.
2:05 PM <Alex_LocalMonero> Because it doesn't provide decreased complexity of a user's depositing experience.
2:05 PM <rehrar> I agree with the 1 year deprecation, but I'm just a guy with a dream
2:06 PM <rehrar> either way, good discussion. For those that need to go, please feel free. We're over the hour.
2:06 PM <gingeropolous> "<Alex_LocalMonero> They'd rather charge people $20 to credit the SPI-less deposits instead of updating their Monero-interfacing software." >> i mentioned a while back trying to invent a way for new daemons to only work with new wallets
2:06 PM <rehrar> Also, msvb-lab is correct. If you are going to defcon and would like to present something, please consider submitting a speaking proposal
2:06 PM <UkoeHB> Integrated are more intuitive for laymen, and provide the same ultimate function
2:06 PM <gingeropolous> i've got a feeling most exchanges just leave the wallets alone and update the daemons
2:07 PM <rehrar> next meeting in two weeks time