Main menu

You are here

Editor barred from Nuesse hearing

Matt Westerhold

Mar 23, 2010

Fired police Chief Kim Nuesse's civil service hearing had only just begun this morning when I got booted out of the hearing room before any witness took the stand.

The city's attorney asked Judge Joseph Cirigliano if I could be added to their witness list to testify about telephone calls regarding the Nuesse matter. I don't think the city really wants me to testify. It's just a ploy to get me out of the hearings.

Another blow to the First Amendment courtesy of the city of Sandusky, where public records aren't public and due process is just a hurdle to overcome in pursuit of an agenda.

At least I can take comfort -- acting police chief Charlie Sams and SPD Lt. Phil Frost also were barred from the hearing room -- because they are scheduled to testify later in the hearings.

*

Matt Westerhold is managing editor of the Register. Westerhold writes a weekly column in the Sunday Register and he is a member of the media company's editorial board. He often also writes about his personal views in this opinion blog.

Comments

Anonymous

Mon, 10/13/2008 - 11:00am

Life is better when the busybodies and gossip mongers are kept at bay. Good for the city and thanks judge!

Anonymous

Mon, 10/13/2008 - 12:07pm

You should be booted out the door of the SR also (Erie county too). I get tired of your opinions, you are all about drama not the news.

Anonymous

Mon, 10/13/2008 - 12:43pm

You should have been allowed to stay- I think you speak alot of truth about what goes on in the good ole boy network... Keep up the good work- and hey, maybe you'll get lucky and they WILL let you testify- oh, the things you could tell them.. if only anyone would listen...

joe baumgartner

Mon, 10/13/2008 - 12:46pm

Dear Matt. Was this a private hearing, or did they just make it that way for their benefit. Do not listen to the neysayers that have commented above. Trust your instincts and find out rhy the Press is not allowed to sit in on the hearing. The same act was followed when my wife was in the Erie County Common Pleas Court. I was barred from sitting in on the procedings. They will do anything that they can get away with behind closed doors, and it is not reported to the public. Where in the USSR are we anyhow?

Sam

Mon, 10/13/2008 - 2:57pm

Matt, you never heard of separation of witness? I thought you were so knowledgeable about the criminal justice system. Why complain, just assign another reporter to cover the story. Maybe now is the time to start with your resume, just in case. I hear the Journal has an opening on a morning motor route. What calls did you make with Nusse and what did you know and when? Maybe you should consult an attorney.

Anonymous

Mon, 10/13/2008 - 3:04pm

This was the right move by the City. Good for them. The SR can easily put another reporter in there. Quit crying and whining and go do something useful for a change.

Anonymous

Mon, 10/13/2008 - 3:12pm

Matt quit your crying. Seperation of witnessess is an every day occurence in law proceedings. If you would not have involved yourself in such a biased way, maybe you would have been just that average reporter, and allowed to stay. Your in it deep now, so you might as well grin and bare it.

Anonymous

Mon, 10/13/2008 - 3:19pm

I see that the GOBs are up to their tricks to cover their butts and keep the truth buried. Matt, have other reporters take your place. The reason why they don't want you there is because they don't want you to report all that went on. The GOBs want the truth to remain hidden.

Keep up the good work, Matt. Many of us support you and want to see the TRUTH to come forward. It is time for the GOBs to answer to their bosses, WE THE PEOPLE.

Hey Matt, could the Sandusky Register get outside help like the FBI to investigate here like in Cleveland? Newspapers have a lot of clout in getting corruption exposed. If the GOBs have nothing to hide, then they would welcome a Federal investigation.

Are these hearings open to the public? If so, I would like to be there to support the TRUTH. But GOBs love to keep everything quiet and secret.

Anonymous

Mon, 10/13/2008 - 3:25pm

Looks like the GOBs are really busy posting anti-Matt comments. I hope that they are not posting on taxpayer time.

It would be nice if all of the comments had IP addresses assigned and posted for all to read. What is the IP address of city hall and the prosecutor's office?

Anonymous

Mon, 10/13/2008 - 3:36pm

Wasn't Judge Joey Toothbrush Cirigliano in the Baxter family probate case. When Joey Toothbrush isnâ€™t letting child molesters roam free on the advice of his real estate partners â€“ heâ€™s conspiring with his favorite County Prosecutor Kevin Baxter so that Kevin can steal money from his own brothers and sisters! Ejay was represented by Schumakes Loop and Kedrick Attorney Thomas Pletz. This was a great write-up !

Anonymous

Mon, 10/13/2008 - 4:41pm

Isn't it convenient that the lying and crooked city attorney, led by Icsman, didn't already have Matt on the witness list before the trial began. He was put on the list to keep things quiet and not get reported on. If they would have let Matt know beforehand he could have had another reporter there to represent the SR and the people. This judge is about as honest as Al Capone was. He should have thrown this request out and told the city attorney they had plenty of time before the trial began to put Matt on the witness list. Instead he cowtows to the GOB's again. When will we ever get an honest judge involved in this.

Anonymous

Mon, 10/13/2008 - 5:58pm

....Make me nauseous. Seems to be just a few of them making blog after blog. Nothing better to do with your life? Be careful, you may find yourself in the same boat as Westerhold if you keep spewing your venom.

Anonymous

Mon, 10/13/2008 - 6:09pm

It seems to be that no one is capable of covering Nuesse gate but Matt because he was an imbedded reporter from the beginning of this fiasco. His alleged unethical behavior of being at Nuesse's house listening to commissioner conversations is going to come out. Hope your ready Matty

Taxpayer

Mon, 10/13/2008 - 6:46pm

Westerhold how many times were you at Nusse's house and her lawyers office sharing information? Whos is biased.The GOB, Westerhold, Nusses and friends.

Anonymous

Mon, 10/13/2008 - 7:10pm

Typical "GOBs" maneuver. Makes me think, What are they hiding.

Anonymous

Mon, 10/13/2008 - 8:50pm

Who cares if Matt listened in. I have a speaker phone and others in my home also listen in to my phone conversations. Why all of the secrecy?I am sick and tired of all of these secrets. Unless the call was "strictly confidential" such as confidentiality between a lawyer and client, who gives a crap if others listened in onto phone conversations. If BIG BROTHER can listen in to my phone conversations or hack into my computer, let them. I HAVE NOTHING TO HIDE. Only crooks get upset when others listen in to their LIES.

Call in the FBI to investigate Sandusky, the Erie County Court system along with all judges, prosecutors and lawyers. While they are at it, they may want to investigate the Ottawa County prosecutor's office too.

Anonymous

Mon, 10/13/2008 - 9:50pm

I've noticed the quality of the register has gone down hill since Westerhold has taken charge.

The writing has become hackneyedthe comics s u c kand I get fresher news from either TV or the Morning Journsl.

I actually saw a story hit the front page 2 weeks after channel 11 out of Toledo did a piece on the exact same thing.

NineMM

Mon, 10/13/2008 - 9:56pm

Hey Matt...............Heard Sean B was dropping off some paperwork or "evidence" to the SR last week concerning the ongoing Baxter feud. You, Sean, and Ejay gonna gang up on Kevin? I'm on your side on this one as well as Nuessegate. You don't have to delete my comments from the other page. We'll find out eventually. I'm not trying to "scoop" you either. If that's what you think then you should change your front page format from blue to yellow. Afraid that brother Kevin will find out you are helping Sean and Ejay expose him. Give em he11.

Anonymous

Mon, 10/13/2008 - 10:06pm

What happened to the "Just In" story about Nuesse and her hearing? Was Matt told to remove it or what? If not he should have been. Strange.

NineMM

Mon, 10/13/2008 - 10:13pm

RE: Hmmmmm................Yeah, I was on that page making a comment and got the old page not available or has been moved page. Strange is right. Maybe there will be another just in scoop to blog about. Maybe the Baxter feud since Sean was seen at the SR dropping off "evidence", and that cat is out of the bag.

Anonymous

Mon, 10/13/2008 - 10:17pm

I was thinking just the opposite. I thought there was too much truth coming out in them about Westerhold and Nuesse and SR or Weseterhold himself didn't like it. Got spooked.

Anonymous

Mon, 10/13/2008 - 10:59pm

Is it also a ploy that Sams and Frost were also barred? It's tough being the ceter of the universe, isn't it?

Anonymous

Tue, 10/14/2008 - 6:25am

Absoutely right on the money. Matt just how many times were you at Nuesse's residence? Maybe you shouldn't be allowed int he hearings could be simply based on the witness issue. Not your little selfish issue of not being able to report the matter. You involved yourself by befriending her spinning the register in her favor. Now you're going to have to answer to it. You make the comment, The city really don't want you to testify. Make sure you don't lie under oath or maybe youir friend Kevin Baxter will be prosecuting your next hearing..............

Anonymous

Tue, 10/14/2008 - 7:13am

Same ole same ole. This is what the low-down dirty tactic boys are known for-- playing dirty. That's why it took so long to get this thing rolling. They had to conspire behind closed doors on how they were going to work it. Lord, I hate this system here in Erie County not to mention Kevin Baxter. That guy is the epitome of all evil.

Anonymous

Tue, 10/14/2008 - 7:19am

I've got a Summary Judgement done by Baxter's Lorain County attorney BUDS that I showed the Court DOCUMENTED PROOF was full of LIES. One even lied in an affadavit signed under oath and I PROVED it was a LIE yet Binette and McGookey ignored it. So I am now calling Baxter's office. I want these crooks PROSECUTED. And Mr. Baxter better do his job........

Anonymous

Tue, 10/14/2008 - 7:38am

I predicted that they would do something to keep Matt from reporting on this and I was right! And you better believe Bailey was part of it....I know how these GOBS work.

Anonymous

Tue, 10/14/2008 - 8:46am

They certainly didn't want Matt to do the reporting did they.

Anonymous

Tue, 10/14/2008 - 8:51am

Lord, I really DO BELIEVE now what the community has been complaining about. Mr. Baxter is going to get a good tongue-lashing from me for ruining THIS COMMUNITY! His mother must be turning over in her grave.

Anonymous

Tue, 10/14/2008 - 9:20am

You don't help your case that there is nothing underhanded going on when you post what amounts to a threat... taken from below

THE WESTERHOLD AND NUESSE SUPPORTERS wrote on Oct 13, 2008 6:58 PM:

" ....Make me nauseous. Seems to be just a few of them making blog after blog. Nothing better to do with your life? Be careful, you may find yourself in the same boat as Westerhold if you keep spewing your venom. "

Anonymous

Tue, 10/14/2008 - 11:21am

TO THE BLOGGER ON OCTOBER 13, 2008 AT 6:58 PMOh really? And what exactly is the "boat" that Westerhold is in? Is that suppose to be some kind of threat that nobody DARE EXPOSE THE SH*T THAT'S GOING ON IN THIS COUNTY? If it is then you can go straight to the pits honey because I'll spout the SH*T WITH PROOF TO ANYBODY THAT WANTS TO LISTEN! What are you trying to say---that Baxter and his gob club are suppose to be HITLER or something and everybody should be shaking in their boots? You seem to forget sweetie that these tyrant morons were ELECTED by the people and the people have every right to GET RID OF THEM WHEN THEY TURN CORRUPT! AND THEY SURE ARE CORRUPT!!! SO COOL IT WITH YOUR JOKE THREATS, HONEY.

Anonymous

Tue, 10/14/2008 - 12:11pm

Considering that the retired judge was involved in the Baxter's probate estate wonder why Bailey never objected to his being the mediator in this? Any comment from Mr. Bailey over this matter would be very much appreciated. I also heard the rumor that Kevin Baxter used our tax dollars to pay for his defense against his brother's allegations in the Baxters estate. I find it very hard to believe that was LEGAL. Any comments from the retired Judge over this matter would be very much appreciated. Thank you.

Anonymous

Tue, 10/14/2008 - 12:22pm

You scream about the first amendment, but yet you censor this crap rag on here. How does it feel to get a taste of your own medicine? Well, do you care to answer that Westerhold? Oh I know you are not sure how to do that. Mr Westerhold, if I want another one of your spewing opinions I'll sit on my behind and fart. At least you can't censor that! Cry like a baby because your first amendment rights are being violated! What about mine and the others on here that are being barred from what we have to say because you think the rules should only apply to us! You are a jack a s s!

Anonymous

Tue, 10/14/2008 - 12:34pm

Hang in there, Matt!Win Big, Kim!

Anonymous

Tue, 10/14/2008 - 1:26pm

If people can't see by now how that Baumgartner woman got railroaded they never will.....

Anonymous

Tue, 10/14/2008 - 1:43pm

One would think these guys would be well, maybe a little embarrassed barring the Editor Matt Westerhold from the hearings. I mean come on guys even high school kids would have had more brains than to pull off an obvious move like that.

Anonymous

Tue, 10/14/2008 - 6:48pm

A threat? What are you talking about? I am not sure who you think you are talking to but I see no threat there. Did I use the word "may" in there someplace? Geez.....eeeeaaaaasy. You Nuesse, Westerhold supporters are so paranoid! What is up with that? Talk about threats, that is all you people do in every single blog since this has been going on is threaten our city leaders. Give me a break. Remember when I said "make me naseous"? Thanx for proving my point. ;)

Anonymous

Tue, 10/14/2008 - 8:46pm

Go do something useful like maybe volunteer your time out to the Erie County Care facility preferably in Cluster 4 because you certainly won't change my opinion about these wonderful city leaders. I know how they work. The fraud in Probate alone proves they have no respect for the living, no respect for the dead, no respect for the LAW and if the truth were known they don't even have any respect for GOD.

Anonymous

Tue, 10/14/2008 - 10:18pm

As a matter of fact, I work in a nursing home tpye facility. I take care of people every single day of my life, have been for quite some time now. Alot of politics there also. So much for that theory of yours. You sound like a very angry person. All over a person like Nuesse? Wow! Nuesse is my problem in all of this. The reason being....why is she causing all of this hatred and turmoil throughout our town? I always thought that if your boss fired you, he fired you. Wasn't that the city managers right? Why would she even want her job back? Well, in my opnion, she is not even thinking about wanting her job back. She just wants to TRY and take every single penny she THINKS she can get her hands on from the city that I was born and raised in and have been here all of my life. She needs to go cause all of this hatred and turmoil in her town where she came from. That, sir, is MY problem. What is yours? Life is too short to be that angry just because of her!

Anonymous

Tue, 10/14/2008 - 11:29pm

You are dead wrong if you think Kim Nuesse is the cause behind my anger. You are also dead wrong if you think Kim Nuesse is the cause of all the hate and turmoil throughout this town. Kim Nuesse instead is the straw that broke the camel's back.

Anonymous

Wed, 10/15/2008 - 10:01am

I think everyone should settle down and buy a clue here. This isn't rocket science. As we have seen Mr. Westerhold has been very biased on his reportings of Ms. Nuesse. There have been too many questions in regards to leaked stories to the press by Ms. Nuesse as well as supposedly private conversations between Ms. Nuesse and the commissioners being listened in on by Mr. Westerhold. By calling Mr. Westerhold as a witness it will place him into a position to tell the truth and nothing but the truth, where before we have only received vague answers. Remember the question and answer at the State Theater where things got heated between Mr. Westerhold and Ms. Farrar? I for one would like to know how far this ex-chief went, I am sure it is not against the law to leak city information, however to me it would make her very unethical and a poor choice of a leader.

Anonymous

Wed, 10/15/2008 - 10:17am

Exactly!

Anonymous

Wed, 10/15/2008 - 11:03pm

Oh come on already. Baxter is the biggest crook around and everybody and their brother knows it. Just like everybody and their brother knows the reason nobody ever runs against him is because it's a fixed deal. And you're talking about this fired police chief's ethics making her a poor choice of a leader? Give it a rest already. That woman was railroaded and everybody and their brother knows it. You say that Mr. Westerhold has been very biased on his reportings of Ms. Nuesse? I don't believe this. Suffice to say it was the other way around. And just for the record I do not live in Erie County and believe you me I never would!

Anonymous

Thu, 10/16/2008 - 3:20am

Matt,Sure hope you had someone else go in for you?! Can A witness be called that late in the game without the defenses lawyer having that info before trial?

Rules of discovery or some such thing?LOL We will all be surprised if you are called as witness for the state or anyone...you don't lie and you don't scare!!!

Anonymous

Thu, 10/16/2008 - 7:33am

This dirty trick did not surprise me in the least. These are the kind of tricks sick Baxter and his club have been pulling off for years and some of the people in this community STILL can't see this sick bast*ard and his gob club for what they really are.....unreal.

Anonymous

Fri, 10/17/2008 - 10:14am

Matt gets barred from the hearings because Baxter and his smelly club don't want the truth to come out....Gee,this sounds familar. People in Erie County ALSO get "barred" from their own cases held behind CLOSED DOORS because the judges and the lawyers "don't want the truth to come out about their crook judge and lawyer friends".

Anonymous

Fri, 10/17/2008 - 12:35pm

MATT: I'M READY TO SPILL THE BEANS ON CIRIGLIANO. CALL ME. I EMAILED YOU LAST WEEK.

Anonymous

Fri, 10/17/2008 - 6:03pm

I could not believe this! How rotten... But then when one looks at the whole picture it shouldn't have come as a surprise. The good 'ole boys will do anything to shut the people up that are on to what's going on in this county.

Anonymous

Fri, 10/17/2008 - 11:24pm

That is the absolute best news I have heard. You are about to get called out for the way you cheated in those phone calls to commissioners that you recorded!!! This is great!!!! What will you say now Matt??? Whose fault will it be?? Sams, Frost, Iscman??? Who Matt???They dont want you in there because your employer allows you to be bias instead of printing the facts. I like how you print this story like youre so proud of yourself, like your a rebel reporter who they are afraid of. If your going to be a witness, you cant sit in on the other witnesses Matt, try picking up a book and learning about court procedures sometime Matt you may learn something. I bet its killing you not to be able to be in there staring at your girl. Now both of you are going to get caught with your hands in the cookie jar!!!

Anonymous

Sat, 10/18/2008 - 8:29am

Hey buddy, the only guys who got caught with there hands in the cookie jar was the Sandusky Police officers stealing girl scout cookies. Remember that, and in my opinion they all should have been fired. Can anyone please provide a list of the names of those officers.

Anonymous

Sat, 10/18/2008 - 10:43am

thing to ever happen in this trial was you getting booted out. See if your buddy Phares will sue to get you back in.

Anonymous

Sat, 10/18/2008 - 11:53am

I SEE THE LIGHT wrote on Oct 14, 2008 2:26 PM:

" If people can't see by now how that Baumgartner woman got railroaded they never will.....

You see the light? Do you also hear voices? You are clearly delusional.

Anonymous

Sat, 10/18/2008 - 2:07pm

Why couldn't Whaley have videotaped it? Could have been sent to America's Funniest Home Videos.

citizen

Sat, 10/18/2008 - 7:24pm

I think these guys are out of control......they obviously don't even care if the citizens can see right thru this. I don't get angry very often but this pi#ses me off to no extent. What in the he## is going on in this town?

Anonymous

Sun, 10/19/2008 - 6:01am

I'm not sure but....if Matt is going to be called as a witness that means he cannot do any reporting on these hearings. Wow! How's THAT for UNFAIRNESS? They play DIRTY, Matt. Take it from one who knows how Baxter and his good 'ole boys work.

Anonymous

Sun, 10/19/2008 - 8:01pm

HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! First amendment violation my azz. Maybe the judge got sick of seeing the bull you people print in this joke of a newspaper!!!!

Did I say HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHA! Idiot!

Anonymous

Sun, 10/19/2008 - 10:01pm

sounds as bad as a pantywaist judge who lets drug dealers go,stepping on the constitution.which any more in this country is interpeted to meet there situation instead of taking the black and white rules our forefathers meant it to be.good luck i hope you can throw the "book" at them on this dont back down man the paper I.E const. shouldnt be subject to an individual 's interpet to please them.oh btw i was aquainted withe lechner family sincere condolences but i think kim is gettin the shaft because she is a women and toomany good ole boys in the spd couldnthandle taking orders from a woman good luck man

Anonymous

Mon, 10/20/2008 - 5:51am

If Kim knew then what she knows now, I'm thinking she never would have applied for the Chief's job.

Anonymous

Fri, 10/24/2008 - 2:40pm

OK GUYS- My last comment was ERASED. Listen I submitted explicit details of the night of events regarding the shooting that accused McDonald and Turner of Murder â€“

So hear it comes again, JUST WATCH HOW QUICKLY THIS WILL BE ERASED, right before your eyes.... I think I'm on to something good.

- The night of the shooting Baxter accused three guys because they were all seen at the club together. While at the club caston is involved in an argument with jerome caffey over who can bench press the most weights.

- That very night, mcdonald drove both turner and caston to the club picking them up in his white car. Please note that caston and turner both were picked up at turner's home and mcdonald was driving his own vehicle, not riding with caston as Baxter has indicated. .

- After the club closes, caston was still very angry and intoxicated as he was ranting and raving about seeking revenge against caffey. You should all know that this was an argument with Caston and Caffey only. McDonald, once again, gave turner and caston a ride home from the club and before they reached their final destinations they stopped at the shell gas station, it was there that McDonald purchased party mixers and condoms for his evening with Ms. Harris. Ms. Harris had purchased a hotel in her name at the motel on Cleveland avenue and it was a mutual agreement that they would meet immediately after mcdonalds night at the club.

- It has been noted that while at the gas station, caston was observed by several people as to have been extremely intoxicated and angry, he was so out of control that he asked terry mcdonald if he had a gun to go kill caffey. Mcdonald had planned an intimate evening with ms harris and he was not entertaining caston with his ill thoughts. Besides, caston never hung out with mcdonald this was turner's friend. Turner stated that know one paid caston any attention because he always behaved in that fashion especially when he was drunk. Turner also admitted that caston would always want his gun and he would often give it to him as caston was only talking when he was drunk.

- As they left the shell gas station it was then that mcdonald dropped caston and turner off at turners and mcdonald proceeded to move on with his night meeting ms harris at the motel on Cleveland Aven._THIS WAS WHERE MCDONALD WAS AND IS INNOCENT FOLKSâ€¦â€¦ Meanwhile, turner at his home with caston, turned over a gun to caston and caston left the home of turner and walked home which was right down the street from his home with the gun, retrieving the keys from his girlfriends driving her red caviler.

- Caston's destination alone and mission to seek revenge was to the home of caffey. It was then during a stop-by that he turned out his head lights and opened fired 32 rounds of ammunition into the home of caffey. You should also know that during this gun sfire shoot out, Mr. caffey was shooting back as officers confiscated a smoking gun in the dryer. This is critical also, emergency room dr's revealed that the bullet wound that struck ms. Johnson came from the direction of the house and not the street. Baxter has all this information but do you really think he will tell the Johnson family this information or the newspaper . HECK KNOW

- Now get this, Turner admits that he heard the shots ring out, as caffeys home was in within range that he could you can hear the gun fire. Turner immediately knew that caston followed through with what he was planning to do, so he ran down to castons home, no car, and no caston. Turner admits that he returned back to his home pacing the floor worried sick as to what caston had done. All he could think about is how stupid he was to have given him his gun.

- Turner admits that later, caston is home and turner runs over to castons, only to find caston with his brother terry it was then that caston informed he shot up the home of jerome caffey and was instructed to rinse his hands in bleach by terry and that both got rid of the murder weapon throwing it lake erie. It was also reported that caston stated the police would never recover the gun because they threw the gun in lake erie. We all know that Lake Erie has no bottom.

_ So folks perfect plan for Baxter to set mcdonald up. Boy was he on to something; he wanted him for drugs that never happened, by gosh was he going to pin this murder on him. He's a mess that Baxter. SO READ BETWEEN THE LINES- mcdonald was framed he was no where near crime he was simply in a motel with ms harris having himself one heck of a good time. I know he wishes he would have been home with his wife and kids you think?

YOU FIGURE THE REST,,,,, please tell me if i should provide more information.

- that fact that the police did not know what kind of car was used in the shooting until baxter interviewed caston and caston said that there were 3000 cavilers , baxter stated himself caston was a dummy because it was caston who gave up the goods about the car that was used. Baxter never asked what car was used, caston did great work to help the investigation. Oh I forget caston was simply too drunk and couldnâ€™t remember yeah right ! Baxter then order's the police to search the red caviler and guess what people they found three shell casings, but didn't bother to dust for finger prints placing, mcdonald and turner in the car. Caston also mentioned that he was so drunk he couldn't remember until baxter got in his ear about mcdonald and how badly he wanted him. So every time you erase my post look for me to keep telling this story.