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I awoke this morning to a PM from Siang (Water Duck) containing more information about Herman. It's important enough that I think I should post it publicly. Herewith the PM:

Dear Gentlemen,

Out of respect for Herman, who do not anymore drama; i am sending you both this short note.

I spent fri & sat 13 & 14 with Herman; we went out to the restro....then i tired calling him for 2 days, no replies, no return calls either.

On the 18, got a mail from Herman informing me of his wish to do euthanasia in the hospital, i am in total shock and had been crying since then, tried calling him again, just then, he has hang up his phone, there is no way i can get in touch with him . In my hour distress, i would really prefer that this be kept quiet and private, unless he reply to this thread on his own. I just want to share this sad news with you both, hope you could accomodate me on my wish for privacy. Sorry, i can't go on, i am crying too much.

Siang

emphasis added by Matty the Damned

It was a previous PM from Siang which prompted my other thread on this matter.

Yes I know it's a PM. Yes I know Siang wants me (and presumably any others he sent this to) to keep this news private. Matty the Damned, however, does not allow common courtesies to interfere with matters of life and death. I'm sorry Siang, but you're just going to have to live with the fact that I didn't respect yours or Heman's privacy.

Now I don't expect people to go stampeding around like hairy goats about this. I have no way of contacting Hermie and I don't know anyone who does. Other than Siang. I don't expect anything of anyone.

This is so sad. Herman's email address isn't in his profile and he hasn't logged in since April 7th. I have no idea what his phone number is but apparently none of these modes will get words of love and support to him. Does Siang know Herman is at home or not? I am unsure after reading his message. I know the last month or so has been emotionally draining for Hermie but he seemed to be OK, or so I thought.

Euthanasia laws require several months investigation before a determination is made unless the person is in pain and death is imminent anyway. At least I think that's how they work where elective euthanasia is legal.

What, if anything, can we do? If sending email or calling him or anything else might help please share your suggestions.

Thanks.

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String up every aristocrat!Out with the priests and let them live on their fat!

Matty I talked with Hermie about 3 weeks ago and he was very optomistic about life. Someting has gone very wrong for him to move this far south that fast.. I know he was waiting on his results of the surgery and that was the last I had contact with him... Please I hope this is not true!

NB. Any advice about HIV is given in addition to your own medical advice and not intended to replace it. You should never make clinical decisions based on what anyone says on the internet but rather check with your ID doctor first. Discussions from the internet are just that - Discussions. They may give you food for thought, but they should not direct you to do anything but fuel discussion.

Dan J has PM'd me and provided me with some email addresses. Also a phone number from Europe somewhere. I checked the Spin Cycle administrators page and Herman's email address was no longer listed. He must have changed it.

I appreciate the concern being expressed here. I also want to say that I don't think any responsible medical facility is going to be participating in euthenasia without having some serious safeguards in place. It is not going to be operating as a Final Exit Hotel to just check into.

Hermie has expressed some very depressed and discouraged thoughts and feelings in the past and then eventually come out of it. Lately it has seemed to me to be more shadow than sunshine in his entries. I would expect that at any hospital he maybe involved with there are professionals who are accustomed to dealing with depression and differentiating that from the end-stage situations which happen with all kinds of illnesses.

If Hermie is reading any of this thread then he knows people care about him and want him to come back. I hope he gets the help he needs right now and is able to come back.

I don't see there's much for us to do about the situation, as painful as it can be to accept that, beyond letting him know we are thinking about him and wishing him well.

And as far as the question of Matty having "violated a confidence," when it involves possibly saving someone's life, not reaching out to help a friend (or even a stranger) seems to me a nicety best forgotten about. I don't believe in getting into "saving" anyone, but responding with care to someone in need, well that's a big part of what we're here for isn't it?

OMG! I love Hermie and his posts has often given me something to think about. Although I do not know what he is going through, but from what I am reading here, there is obviously something serious going on. For those who emailed him, I hope he sees them and hopes it will show him how much he is loved. Come back Hermie, we all love you and miss you.

Matty, I think Water Duck will understand about you posting and frankly, I am glad you did. I am also glad that Water Duck told you or else we would be in the dark about this. I am praying for you Hermie.

Herman and I have talked and he is facing some real challenges in his life and given his history with depression, he is just having a very difficult time right now. I believe it is best for just one or two members to try and contact him, so we do not overwhelm him. I also believe it is disrespectful to share personal facts about Herman and/or to speculate on his mental status, without having all the facts and we should just stick to good wishes.

Herman, dear friend, please contact someone and let them know that you are still with us. We do not need details, nor do we wish to intrude on your privacy, but you have many friends here and you know that we all love you. Please tell us you are still here. You know what it can mean when you think this way... call me, anyone, please, we are very afraid for you.

Your posts have always been an inspiration to me. I never met you, never spoke to you in person, but your words on the forums have touched me greatly, and have helped get me through some difficult times.

Hermie mon cher'I understand, and am distressed to know that you are in a rough spot right now. I'm sure Lola is kissing you, and comforting you.Sweetie, Tyke, and I send giant hugs, and many kisses to you. All my love, lisa(maw)

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No Fear No Shame No StigmaHappiness is not getting what you want, but wanting what you have.

Sorry if the following seems inconsistent and incoherent. But that is how I feel.

Just trying to explain what is going on.I am screaming inside. I am hurting. I am dying inside.Screaming from the bottom of my soul.Screaming for help, because I can't cope anymore. I have completely isolated myself.But I am getting help, so please, this is no threat.I just lived through the four darkest days in my entire life, and I had some dark ones before.

I have just returned from the hospital, where I had a 2 hour talk with my HIV doc and the psychiatrists. My depression has reached unseen depths and that clearly scared them as much as it did me.

I can't has switched to I won't. Most of you have suffered a great deal in life. It feels selfish now, but I need to write it down.This is the list of stuff that happened to me in the last 1 ½ year : - temporary paralyses of my right side- suspicion of brain hemorrhage- buffalo hump growth within 3 days- suspicion of brain tumor - several strange rises in cortisol- serious burnout, followed by depression- my husband falls in love with another man and leaves me- the business goes down, because I wasnt able to work- the bailiffs start to show up - I start having problems to pay my staff- The guy I fall in love with in Toronto on my first AMG turns extremely abusive and aggressive in the next 6 months ( he was a morphine addict). - The sale of the business takes 1 ½ year longer than planned- I face bankruptcy- My best friend Magda kills herself, just when I was about to walk in her doorstep july 27th- 2 tumors are removed from my rectum. They turn out to be malign. I am in constant pain.- I fall in love with Dan ( positive fact)- Sell my business and loose $ 125.000 and am left with $ 40.000 in debts- I am free and fly to the the US to be with my love Dan.- What happened there is beyond anyones imagination. I was left on my own, 8000 miles away from home. I want to keep the details private, but it was not just a simple breakup. It left me shattered.

Too much is too much. I just broke into pieces, stopped eating, drinking, showering, shaving, taking meds I look and smell like a homeless person.

I just want you all to know I was in the darkest of all places when I decided to ask. for Euthanasia. After today I have agreed to be admitted to a mental clinic for a longer stay.

All of you : thank you for being here.I mentioned today that AMG Toronto in summer 2005 was one of the highlights of my entire life.

Matty, you smelled it right, once more. Thank you.Siang, you are a true friend. Thank you.And Joe you know where I have been. Darkes then black and very very very isolated.

It feels like I have returned to the living, but I still feel dead inside.Thank you for just being here and writing these words.

I am ashamed of myself. I am crying here, because I, who survived 20 years of HIV cold not cope with life anymore. I am so ashamed.Please forgive me.

Please give me some time.. ..I feel so destroyed.

Herman

« Last Edit: April 20, 2007, 05:12:08 PM by heartforyou »

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Diagnosed in 1987 and still kickingViread, Kivexa (Epzicom),Viramune once daily

I don't know you, but I just wanted to post and let you know that I'm thinking of you and hope you are able to find the resources to deal with the huge number of overwhelming things that have happened to you over the past 18 months.

I enjoy reading your posts, and hope you will soon return. Please do whatever you need to do to take the best care of yourself.

Herman... I have no words which will make it better. The only thing I can think of is that the world will be diminished if your light goes out.Sometimes troubles can be overwhelming. It might seem that the world is crashing around you.

I am saddened and dismayed that you are so troubled...

It sounds to me like there are many people on here who would talk to you if you reach out. You are not alone.

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Floating through the void in the caress of two giant pink lobsters named Esmerelda and Keith.

Dear Hermie...All the love shown to you lets you know how much so many people care about you, myself included...You are a fighter and will battle on...Bad stuff has happened and better days are on the horizon and you are not alone.

Love always, Jody

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"Wake up to find out that you are the eyes of the world". "Try to discover that you are the song that the morning brings."

Man, you have nothing to be ashamed about so please don't go there for one milli-second more. No kidding. That's just what I call "the high school voice of death" which is always critical and hangs around waiting to bat you over the head.

Take some deep breaths please whenever you're feeling like it's all hopeless. There's something about having lungs full of even the crappy oxygen we breathe that helps with getting out from under.

It is indeed great to hear from you ! As Andy said, no need to apologise. We are here to support and nurture each other, our global family. You have shown me kindness overtime and I send you this back ten fold.

It's good to know that you're seeking help from professionals who can help see you through these dark and difficult times.

Please know that there are many folks here who love you and will welcome you back with arms (and hearts) wide open, when you are ready to come back.

Just want you to know that I am sending good thoughts your way, and thinking of you daily. As others have said, it is now time, to take care of yourself. Don't ever be ashamed of crying, it's one thing that keeps me emotionally intact at times. Your a survivor herman, and you will get through this...

We don't know each other, but reading through this thread I'm relieved to see you are reaching out for help now. I hope you'll find meaning in your life again and that it's still worth living. Be good to you.

Seeing the outline of your reality.....................Feeling the pain of your reality............Knowing the strength of our friend in Belgium...........Fearing the reality of your pain...........Knowing the weakness of my soul..........Herman, I have held off pouring out my thoughts, feelings, and panic, and it has left me weak in the knees. I have not the words to express my heart to you, as I am not capable of holding up under the pressure of your reality. I know I would not be able to walk your path, so I just wanted you to know that I have been, and remain, your friend.

Nothing to guide you with, nothing to say, nothing to do, only questions, only love, and only a concern that you my dear friend can find your way through and out the other side, to the light of balance and happiness once again. I know you are not only capable, but also are worth the effort and worth the work that must be done.

My thoughts and heart are scattered, but know this, my love for you is unending, and I long for the day I can embrace you and let you once again know that in person.

Love, your friend, Tim.

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The Bible contains 6 admonishments to homosexuals,and 362 to heterosexuals.This doesn't mean that God doesn't love heterosexuals, It's just that they need more supervision.Lynn Lavne

I just returned from a day at the Buddhist temple with Siang ( Waterduck) Even got to meditate for a while. Scary when you are depressed.

Let me openly say this : as bitchy and sharptongued Siang may seem in some of his responses, as golden is his heart .This man has showed me pure kindness and love as a friend, unconditionally.What I really want to say is this : meeting people in real life is so enriching.Being able to look in eyes that understand, being face to face, actually feeling someones bodywarmth can completely change the impression the same person creates on paper.

Living in Europe, I miss seeing all my American friends from the Forum.

Tomorrow I will find out more about the therapeutic center I will be admitted to. I am scared, but curious at the same time to find out more about myself.You all have been a mirror to me many times. I have seen ugly sides of myself, but you have also showed me the true loving, caring, sharing, warm Hermie, in your responses.This frozen heart just needed every single one of your comments.

Thank you, and know that there is a lot more suffering and loneliness here then we may think.

In love and gratitude,

Hermie

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Diagnosed in 1987 and still kickingViread, Kivexa (Epzicom),Viramune once daily

Glad to hear from you dear friend and I am pleased that are seeking the help that you so desperately need. You know you never need to apologize to me, nor ask for my forgiveness, because you have done nothing wrong. After reading what you have been going through, you should be amazed at yourself for how strong you have remained. Honestly, reread what you wrote because all that turmoil would have claimed a weaker person.

You know I love you and support you unconditionally. I am here for you to share your life and offer my support. We share a mental illness and you never have to explain just how dark your dark is. My only hope is that you find the contentment that you so richly deserve. You know I am here.