If you aren’t familiar with the “Book of Mormon” or the Bible, many of these points will be obscure to you. Oh well. Read and learn.

1. Shiz & Coriantumr – Ether 15:29-31. Shiz appears to have been unconscious when Coriantumr cut his head off, although he may have started to wake up. Anyway, after Shiz was decapitated, he “raised [himself] up on his hands and fell; and after that he had struggled for breath, he died.” (The words in square brackets are mine, for clarity). Does that sound like it could have happened? Could it be explained by post-mortem muscle spasms, as some have suggested? Struggling for breath, perhaps; but a controlled movement like raising yourself on your hands?

2. Reformed Egyptian (RE) – the language of the Nephites. According to the LDS I’ve spoken with, “Reformed Egyptian” isn’t the name of the language, but a description: the “Book of Mormon” people used a form of Egyptian that was altered (“reformed”) in some way. What the ancient Meso- and North Americans called it isn’t known.

In 1 Nephi Lehi and his family left Jerusalem just before the exile to Babylon (before 607 BC I think) and took a copy of the Old Testament – what had been written up to then – with them on brass plates in the Egyptian language (Mosiah 1:3-4).

(a) Joseph Smith Jr said RE was a combination of Egyptian, Assyrian, Chaldaic (Babylonian) and Arabic. The problem is that Egyptian and Assyrian are non-alphabetic scripts, while Chaldaic and Arabic are alphabetic scripts, so these four can’t form any language as we know it. It would be like using Japanese, Chinese, Russian and English to form a language! The only possibility as far as I can see could be a language like a type of mathematics that uses numbers and some letters which express large numbers (the name of the language eludes me at present.)

(b) 1 Nephi 3:19 – They took the plates with them to “preserve … the language of our fathers”: being Israelites, the language of Lehi’s fathers was Hebrew (this contradicts what Mosiah 1:3-4 says: that it was Egyptian). If Nephi intended to preserve the language of his fathers, the Nephites did a spectacularly bad job: RE doesn’t even include Hebrew!

(c) Why would Hebrews write in Egyptian? That would be (close to) blasphemy for the Jews – God’s word in the language of their former slavemasters? The Jews had their own language in which God revealed Himself, His past and His purposes to them. Moses used (paleo-)Hebrew, not Egyptian.

(d) Considering the length of the Old Testament up to the exile, a lot of brass would be needed. The Israelites used bronze and perhaps tin but as far as I know they never brass, a compound of those two metals. Why wouldn’t they use papyrus or vellum to write, as they had done for centuries? These would be easier to write on and much more portable.

(e) Joseph Smith Jr said that a selected transcription of the “Book of Mormon” was taken to Professor Charles Anthon (Pearl of Great Price, Joseph Smith 1:62-64). Professor Anthon was reported as saying that Joseph Smith’s translation was “more correct than any he had before seen.” But if RE was not known by anyone (Mormon 9:33), how could Professor Anthon say that Joseph Smith Jr’s translation was “more accurate than he had before seen”? How could he know that it was more accurate if the language wasn’t known? He couldn’t have any other translation to compare it to!

To expand on this … Prof. Anthon must have had to learn RE somewhere and be expert at it. He must have had some standard of knowledge that would have been “most accurate”, until he saw Joseph Smith Jr’s translation. But if the language wasn’t known by anyone, how could he have had any knowledge of it at all? Even if he knew all the four languages that make up RE, they would be so altered (see above) that they wouldn’t retain their former meanings.

3. Faith and works. 2 Nephi 25:23-24 “by grace we are saved, after all we can do”. Contrast Ephesians 2:8-9 – “by grace we are saved … not by works” – and
Titus 3:5 – “he [God] saved us, not because of righteous things we had done, but because of his mercy.” (words in brackets mine.)

4. Does the “Book of Mormon” teach monotheism, polytheism, or henotheism (many gods but only one worshipped)?
2 Nephi 31:21 – “this is the only and true doctrine of the Father, and of the Son and of the Holy Ghost, which is one God, without end. Amen.”

Alma 11:26-31 – “Now Zeezeom said: Is there more than one God? And he answered, No”.

LDS may say that it only refers to this Earth; however, Alma 18:24-32 – “… this Great Spirit, who is God, created all things are in heaven and in the earth?” The question should be answered with “Yes”. Second, there is no other parameter mentioned to allow for this limitation. Compare Alma 22:9-11.

5. Jesus the Father & the Son (this is called modalism).
Mosiah 15:1-3 – “God himself shall come down among the children of men … he shall be called the Son of God, and having subjected the flesh to the will of the Father, being the Father and the Son – the Father, because he was conceived by the power of God and the Son, because of the flesh; thus becoming the Father and Son – and they are one God, yea the very Eternal Father of heaven and of earth.”

Alma 11:38-39 – “Now Zeezrom saith again unto him: Is the Son of God the very Eternal Father? And Amulek said unto him :Yea, he is the very Eternal Father of heaven and earth”.
Ether 3:14 – “Behold, I am Jesus Christ. I am the Father and the Son.”
Is it necessary to say the Bible does not teach this?

6. Where first called Christians? Alma 46:13-15 (BC 73), contrast Acts 11:26 – they were first called Christians at Antioch.

8. Neither children nor joy, because there was no evil – 2 Nephi 2:22-23. But before the Fall, God told Adam and Eve to have kids (Genesis 1:28) – so sin was never a condition of procreation.

9. Jaredites crossed the oceans with air-holes in the top and base of their crafts – thus letting in air and salt water! (Ether 2:19-20). If a strong wind blew constantly from Israel towards the Americas, would it take 344 days to get there?! (Ether 6:5-11.) If the wind blew at 10 knots, you could go around the world three times.

10. Joseph Smith Jr said there was no Greek or Latin on the plates that he had, but also
“Christ” is Greek – and it is a title not a name. (2 Nephi 10:3, 25:19);
“Alpha and Omega” are Greek letters. (3 Nephi 9:18);
“Raca” is Aramaic for “empty-head”. (3 Nephi 12:22);
“Synagogue” is Greek. Synagogues didn’t come about until (or at latest, after) the exile. Lehi etal left before exile! (Alma 16:13)
“Adieu” in Jacob 7:27 is French for “goodbye”. The book of Jacob was written about 544-421 BC. French comes from vulgar Latin, but wasn’t an independent language until around 700 AD! But “adieu” didn’t enter the language until about the 14th century. it might have been spoken one century, even two, earlier than this and we don’t have records – but that’s still a long way from 400 BC! And there’s nothing that “adieu” can be used for that “goodbye” can’t.

11. References to Jesus’ baptism occur about 550 years before the event, but are written in the past tense! (2 Nephi 31:6-11)! If a figure of speech, what one? There is none that I’m aware of.

12. The cover page of Book of Mormon says that if there are mistakes they are the fault of men – but the way in which Joseph Smith Jr translated the Book of Mormon (through the Urim & Thummim spectacles, or with a seer stone in his hat, into which he put his face), mistakes couldn’t be made! (Each word given to Joseph Smith Jr – David Whitmer, “An Address to all believers in Christ” (1976), and “The Journal of Oliver Broadman Huntington”, p.168).

13. The 1964 edition of the “Book of Mormon” says that if the Lamanites turn to Christ they shall become “white and delightsome” (2 Nephi 30:6). The newest edition of the Book reads “pure and delightsome.” If “white” is figurative for “pure”, why change it? If the “Book of Mormon” is God’s word, why change it? Just add a footnote. And using one literal adjective (“delightsome”) with one figurative adjective (“white”) isn’t done.

14. Why not use Joseph Smith Jr’s “Inspired Version”? He did finish the translation – “We this day finished the translating of the Scriptures … Having finished the translation of the Bible” (“History of the Church”, Vol. 1, pp.368-369).
God commanded Joseph Smith Jr to translate the New Testament (Doctrine & Covenants 45:60-61) and publish it to the world (“Doctrine & Covenants”, 124:89).

16. The “Book of Mormon” claims to have, or to be, a “familiar spirit”: “For those who shall be destroyed shall speak unto them out of the ground, and their speech shall be low out of the dust, and their voice shall be as one that hath a familiar spirit … and their speech shall whisper out of the dust” (2 Nephi 26:16). LDS claim this means its doctrine is similar to the Bible’s. But “familiar” in the Bible doesn’t mean “similar to”: it is an allusion to witchcraft; as with a “witch’s familiar”, an animal possessed by a spirit. This is confirmed in 2 Nephi 18:19 – “And when they shall say unto you: Seek unto them that have familiar spirits, and unto wizards that peep and mutter …”

In the Bible, it’s said regarding Jerusalem/ Ariel – “Brought low, you will speak from the ground; your speech will mumble out of the dust. Your voice will come ghostlike from the earth; out of the dust your speech will whisper.” (Isaiah 29:4)

Needless to say, God condemns spiritism:

“When men tell you to consult mediums and spiritists, who whisper and mutter, should not a people inquire of their God? Why consult the dead on behalf of the living? To the law and to the testimony! If they do not speak according to this word, they have no light of dawn.” (Isaiah 8:19-20. Also Deuteronomy 18:9-12)

17. Is baptism for the dead effective?
No.
2 Nephi 9:38 – And, in fine, wo [sic] unto all those who die in their sins; for they shall return to God, and behold his face, and remain in their sins. (words in brackets mine.)

Alma 34:31-35 – I beseech of you that you do not procrastinate the day of your repentance until the end … if we do not improve our time while in this life, then cometh the night of darkness wherein there can be no labor performed. Ye cannot say … I will repent … for that same spirit that doth possess your bodies at the time that ye go out of this life, that same spirit will have power to possess your body in that eternal world. (also Mosiah 2:33; Hebrews 9:27).

18. Is a person forgiven before or after baptism?
after: 2 Nephi 31:17 – For the gate by which ye should enter is repentance and baptism by water; and then cometh a remission of your sins by fire and by the Holy Ghost.
(also 3 Nephi 12:2; Moroni 8:11, 25).

before: “Doctrine & Covenants” 20:37 – All those who have truly repented of all their sins … and truly manifest by their works that they have received of the Spirit of Christ unto the remission of their sins, shall be received by baptism into his church.
(also Romans 10:9, 1 Corinthians 1:17 and 15:1-4.)

19. Is God unchangeable or a glorified man?
For I am the Lord, I change not; therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed. (3 Nephi 24:6)

And if there were miracles wrought then, why has God ceased to be a God of miracles and yet be an unchangeable Being? And behold, I say unto you he changeth not; if so he would cease to be God … (Mormon 9:19)

For I know that God is not a partial God, neither a changeable being; but he is unchangeable from all eternity to all eternity. (Moroni 8:18)

And God spake unto Moses, saying: Behold, I am the Lord God Almighty, and Endless is my name; for I am without beginning of days or end of years; and is not this endless? (“Pearl of Great Price”, Moses 1:3. Also Moses 6:67).

copyright Troy Grisgonelle 2008.

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8 Responses to “Some issues with the “Book of Mormon””

You seem to be interested in solving some conundrums posed by BofM passages. These may be BofM 500 level questions. They sure aren’t BofM 101. Have you asked the people at http://www.fairLDS.org or ttp://farms.byu.edu/?

It is so wonderful that you are reading and deeply studying the beautiful Book of Mormon: Another Testament of Jesus Christ! You have created a very long list of questions here! They are all really intelligent and valid. I can assure you that all of these items here have been addressed before in detail by our living prophets, apostles and general authorities, as well as by many other LDS scholars, and there are very clear explanations for things that have concerned you.. I do not have space or time to answer each one by one here, however A great place to start when you have questions is by using the search box on lds.org. I can also provide a list of books and links to articles for further study that I have found extremely interesting and helpful. If you are interested please feel free to send me an email directly and I will happily attach.

In all of your studies, and quest for answers regarding the Book of Mormon I would suggest you start with the following basics:

1. Remember, that this is not a history book. It is a scriptural text. similar to the Bible, it includes stories from history in order to illustrate spiritual principles. As you have read in the introduction and in the text, the ultimate purpose is to stand as another witness of Jesus Christ (along with the Bible and additional scripture), and it teaches us God’s truth, while helping us feel the Holy Spirit. Although it is fascinating to study in-depth from a scholarly point of view the history, geography, linguistics, etc. associated with any scriptural text, the true purpose of the book must be kept foremost in our minds, and the interpretation of its text must be done through a spiritual and not a scientific approach.

2. The Book of Mormon is an abridgment by the prophet Mormon – (approx. AD 350-400) of histories and stories and prophesies that were recorded over the span of nearly 900 years and passed down through all of those generations. Mormon had a massive task assigned to him. He compiled the abridgment of all of those records upon thin metal plates, which was then translated by Joseph Smith into what we hold in our hands today. (Thus explaining the origin of the name of the book, in honoring that great prophet abridger) By divine direction and inspiration Mormon was the prophet who chose the parts that would be of most use for our generation to bring us closer to Christ. (See: Words of Mormon chapter 1). After his death, his son Moroni safeguarded the records, wrote additional important prophecies within the pages, and before his death, buried the record so that it could be found and translated for our generation. It was preserved by God especially for you and me and all those who have lived since the 1830s! It is a “voice from the dust” directly to us who are living in the last days of the earth.

3. It is by the Holy Spirit of God that we can know the truth of all things. It is also through trying very hard to keep the Spirit of God with us at all times that we can be led to further answers and knowledge and understanding. In the Book of Mormon there is a specific promise included to all those who diligently read and study and ponder it – (Moroni 10: 3-5). Each reader is promised a personal answer from God that these things are true if they are willing to follow the specific steps outlined, which includes having faith in Jesus Christ, and sincere prayer.

I recommend that you read the article “Mormoni’s Promise” by Gene R. Cook, (found on lds.org in search field). I also highly recommend reading “How To Know The Truth” by President Henry B. Eyring.(using same search field).

4. Your very extensive list includes doctrinal questions such as the nature of the Godhead, and the process of repentance and forgiveness, among others. Since Joseph Smith, there has been a living prophet and apostles restored to the earth today. Their words and teachings and clarifications combined with the Holy Scriptures written by ancient prophets (Old Testament, New Testament, and Book of Mormon Testament) all continually add to our wisdom, knowledge and spiritual understanding! Your study of the Book of Mormon is just the beginning of a huge amount of knowledge waiting for you in The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Take one step at a time, don’t get overwhelmed, and we will get you all of the information you are seeking.

5. I have found that the more answers we obtain the more questions it generates, because it is one of the very exciting parts of being human – we are born with an intense desire to learn, and improve, and are always in a quest for more and more information and knowledge. It is what separates us from all other living things, and is a divine trait. It is important that we differentiate between our scholarly knowledge quest and our spiritual knowledge quest with confirmation of belief. I believe that it is imperative to begin with the spiritual confirmation first. Because it is by and through the Holy Spirit in which we can know all things. (Moroni 10:6) Once we have a spiritual witness of something (such as “God Lives”, “Jesus Christ is the Savior of the World”, “The Bible is divine scripture”, “The Book of Mormon is divine scripture”…etc.) then we have something solid to stand upon as we add to our knowledge of truth. This gives us great peace as we realize that we do not have to know ALL things in order to know and recognize what is truth, and it gives us patience in our life-long journey of learning. Gaining wisdom is a never-ending process.

I personally know that the Book of Mormon is true scripture from God. It is one of my foundations of spiritual knowledge. I received my own witness when I was about sixteen, and another powerful and memorable witness when I was 23, and every time since that day that I have read and studied the book I get yet another great confirming feeling that yes, this is absolutely right and wonderful. I enjoy reading scholarly texts and learning more about the intricacies of the book from a scientific approach – however, my spiritual beliefs are not defined by them nor gained because of scientific proof and study. We do not have to read every scholarly text, and have every answer to know that the Book of Mormon is true scripture. Having a strong spiritual foundation also safeguards us when something comes along that tries to “disprove” the validity of this book, or the validity of God, or the validity of any other spiritual belief. I don’t have to get all worked up about it because God has given me my answer already. Science is fallible. God is not!

God will send to you a personal answer and witness in His own time, and each person receives it in their own unique way. But it will ALWAYS come to those who seek it. I have had multiple times when I have been filled with love and peace and confirmation of truth reading the Book of Mormon. I love it so much. It is imperative that one seeks this sure foundation first and foremost in any quest for knowledge. A personal spiritual witness of the Book of Mormon does not mean that all of our questions will be instantly answered, nor need to be. When we want to learn things, it often takes some effort and work on our part and time and study, but having the Holy Spirit with us makes things clear. There will be plenty of voices out there that will try to demean and attack and slander spiritual feelings and spiritual knowledge. Satan is just as real as Jesus Christ. We must use spiritual wisdom when we decide which voices we listen and who to trust. We must turn to God for help in discerning this. Ask, and it shall be opened. He is there for you.

Please feel free to contact me for additional info I found helpful. – best wishes on your amazing spiritual journey!

Good holy God, it breaks my heart to read the foolish words of such an apparently nice person as mormonsoprano. Mormonism is like a hard candy shell around her brain, cheap and sugary and addictive, and impervious to any outside ideas.

I want to say that I second the testimony that Mormonsoprano has stated. The Book of Mormon, like the Bible is the Word of God and Joseph Smith was a Prophet and that we have a living Prophet on the earth today. The priesthood is restored and the gospel rolls forth throughout the earth.

It is important that we ask questions. A baby must crawl before they walk and walk before they run. That is the way we learn about Christ and his gospel. Here a little and there a little. How many times did Jesus teach his disciples and they themselves not understand, and He was standing right there?

Troy, some of your questions are insightful and others seem to be more contextual, easily understood and answered once a historical and/or spiritual context is obtained.

I do not know every answer to every question about the Church, but what I cannot deny is the feeling of the Holy Ghost when I go to Church and when I learn of Joseph Smith and the Book of Mormon. There might be some inconsistencies found in some historical records or questions about time lines and word etymologies but I cannot deny the Spirit that is telling me that the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is true.

When it comes to doctrine, we need to remember that we have been told that the latest issue of the Conference Report goes on top of all other scriptures. We need to live in the now and find what the Lord wants us to know and do in this generation. We learn from Prophets of Old but we will be judged by our actions today based on how we follow our living Prophet. I have learned this the hard way in some instances, nothing that has shaken my testimony. I do recall that they Prophet back in 1998 gave us some great counsel that if I had been listening better I could have saved me and my family some severe financial pain.

I know I did not really answer any of your questions, though I have to admit I don’t think I actually know the answer to every single one you presented. I just know that the Lord loves us and he will give us the answers we seek when the time is right and our hearts are open and ready to receive them.

Let me know if you have any more questions. I have a good friend who runs a website, http://www.ldsmag.com, he has some great writers and there are some good archives you can look through.

I was born and raised in The Mormon Church, spent two years as a missionary. When I decided to leave the church it was because I knew it was the right thing to do. The same way everyone in The Mormon Church says they had a feeling (which they say is a message from God through the Holy Ghost…and then call it proof). I had a feeling that my life would be better outside of the church so I gave it a try and guess what? It was SO MUCH BETTER (sorry for yelling there). It has been almost six years since I left the church and I have to say: when Mormon’s and non-Mormons discuss their world-views, neither one has any chance of understanding the other. A non-Mormon has no way of understanding the socialization, indoctrination and separation of someone who was raised (or indoctrinated into) The Mormon Church. A Mormon separates their life into two parts: the church and the ‘world’ and everything in the church is good and comfortable and safe, and everything in the ‘world’ is the opposite and to be avoided. If anyone is going to reach someone in The Mormon Church, they will have to understand how a Mormon’s mind works and how they accept information as correct. Despite what any member of the church will tell you, no one has ever taken a truly objective (let alone critical) view of their own church or The Book of Mormon. In order to do this, they would have to genuinely ask themselves the question, “what if The Book of Mormon is false?” and for an archaic, non-progressive organization like The Mormon Church, that question is tantamount to apostasy. If they could view their religion with objective eyes, they would see just how different the church is today than how it started. Instead of a grassroots, fringe organization trying to make sense of Christianity (in an admittedly unusual way) it has become a giant, bureaucratic organization of flowcharts and authority structures.
I wish there was some way to explain to members of The Mormon Church how much better life is outside of the church, but they have been trained to believe that if they leave the church they will ruin their lives and go to hell (sorry, outer darkness). No needless guilt, an optimistic world-view, true acceptance of your fellow man: these are the things that await you in ‘the world’. Come on in, the water’s fine.