Howdy all!
I'm looking for single shot target pistol, percussion, that is accurate and less than a grand. I've been looking at the Pedersoli Charles Moore as sold by Dixie Gunworks (I like the blued barrel!). Anybody have any experience with this pistol? Anybody know if the Dixie Gunworks one is the same quality as the in the white barrel sold by say Cherry's? (There's a significant price difference between the two.)
I really want a loading ram rod on the gun, so that lets out a number of dueling type pistols. I really want one that can be very accurate, without buying an aftermarket barrel for it. Anybody have any other pistol suggestions? Anybody know any makers that might be able to supply such a pistol?
Thanks!

I'd look for a used Yazel. I have two (flint and percussion) with 9 inch barrels in .36 cal. I don't know of better quality at any price but they are hard to find as they're not made any more and most owners tend to keep them.

for your budget, I think you could get a custom gun made. I do not like double triggers on a pistol. A single set trigger that can be used either set or un set would be preferable. A good builder can make a gun with a plain trigger shoot with the same light crisp pull as set triggers. Prime parts will run about $400, leaving up to $600 for a gun smith to do the work.

A big +1 for the Gun Works. A custom pistol with quality components that should last most of a lifetime. In addition you won't have to spend all your time and possibly $$ trying to get it to do what you want like you would with a lot of those Italian pistols. Great people but Joe is getting up there in years and there's a 6 month wait. I've been looking at them for several years and will probably have to buy one "for the wife" if I can ever put enough distance between me and the bills.

I have heard of Ten Ring, Yazel, Lightning and Lewis pistols for line matches at 25 and 50 yards.

I am currently shooting 10 Ring Percussion and Flintlock pistols in 45 cal. The percussion and I are not doing well and it has some major design flaws as far as I am concerned. Along with the flaws, I do not shoot it well, but do very nicely with flintlock 10 Ring.

To my question, please provde input on Yazel, Lightning and Lewis pistols as you feel which is the better, why and what you deem is the better caliber for 25 and 50 yards, 36, 40 or 45.

Oh, You left off the 32.« Last Edit: March 13, 2011, 04:10:06 AM by Frizzen » Logged
The Pistol Shooter
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D. Buck Stopshere
Full Member

Posts: 110

Re: Line Pistols, Ten Ring, Yazel, Lightning and Lewis
« Reply #2 on: March 13, 2011, 04:45:28 AM »I have had experience with all but the Lewis pistols. I assume the Lewis pistols were made by Rob Lewis. He and his Dad, Dick had a business call Tri-L. Don't quote me on this. Its been 12 years since I shot on the pistol line at Friendship, so I have to refer to my years as a competitor from 1985 to 1999.

I started out with a pair of Ten-Ring pistols like you have. These were made by Alex Blaines of San Antonio, TX. They were serial numbered and in .45 caliber. Back in the 60's & '70's when NRA Conventional Pistol Shooting was hot at Camp Perry, and the 1911-A1 was "King", Mr. Blaines decided to construct his pistols with the grip angle of a 1911-A1 .45 ACP. His pistols became very popular with "Bullseye Shooters" (Conventional Pistol). He also offered an inline action muzzle loading rifle (before Tony Knight in '85).

The Yazel pistols were designed by Harold Yazel of Mentone, IN. He and his son, Mike built percussion and flint pistols to sell as a "custom-order pistol. They were available in .45, .40, .36, & .32. Flintlocks were available in either right-hand or left-hand configuration. They were available with accompanying false muzzles, if requested. Mike was a past National Champion, Distinguished Master & past President of NMLRA.

The Yazel is based on the grip angle of the Smith & Wesson Model 41 (.22 cal) pistol, which was also a favorite among "Bullseye Shooters". In Coventional Pistol, the favorite .22 RF pistols were the Hi-Standard Citation & the S & W Model 41. Most of the pistol competitors use Herrett's "National" model grips.

IMHO, the Yazel pistols are an improvement over the "Ten-Ring" Pistols. Simpler mechanism inside. I have shot my Yazel percussion pistol thousands of times in competition & practice. Nothing has broken. Think I have replaced the nipple/breechplug three times since 1987. From 1987 till 1999, I bought dozens and dozens of Yazel pistols to sell at the Nationals and here in the Carolinas.

For a long time, I was on the s**t list in WV among pistol shooters, because I sold H.P. Gregory a .40 caliber Yazel at Friendship one year. When He sold it, WV pistol shooters breathed a sigh of relief (I'm told).

The "Lightning" pistols were made by Cimarron Gun Works in Mehan, OK. I don't have much experience with the percussion model, but I have a flint model in .36 caliber, SN# 001, here by my side, which I just finished cleaning. The "Lightning" is made with an aluminum lower receiver, a 11" round barrel, and fitted with a Voequartsen rubber three-finger grip, and the flint-lock facing the shooter on the barrel. The lock work in side is quite elaborate, bordering on fancy. I don't know how they fared business-wise. Figured they closed.

The flint pistol first belonged to a friend of mine, Dan Hardman, in this area. Dan is a former National M-L Pistol Champion numerous times, Distinguished Master, 4th in Revolver in International Competition, and an all-around great shooter. His wife, Joan has won the Ladies National Championship a few times as well.

Another inline you have not mentioned but is worth considering is the Mouzon pistol. Designed and crafted by John Mouzon of Anderson, SC and available on in percussion, it is based on the grip angle of the
Ruger MK III MK678, .22 RF pistol, available in .36 and .32 calibers. Sold mostly to shooters in the South.

I can put you in touch with John if interested. As to calibers, younger fellows tend to go with .45 caliber, older shooters, mindful of recoil and shooting hundreds of rounds at Friendship at the National Matches, favor .40 & .36 & .32 caliber.

The .32 caliber is especially popular for what .32 cal RB's are besides .32 RB. That is also the diameter of
"0 Buck". When a box of Hornady .315 RB used to be $ 6.00/100, one could buy a 5 lb box of Hornady "0 Buck" buckshot for $14.00. There would be about 500 rds of buckshot in that 5 lb box. $6.00 per 100 or $14.00 per 500, now which caliber pistol will I choose?

I miss not being back at Friendship, and hope I can get back “in the Groove” and attend this Fall. Had two bouts with cancer one in '99 and a return to the radiation room in 2003. Guess, I'm "clean now", but the money I spent to pay the part that major medical didn't pay could have bought me a new truck.
But life's like that, sometimes.

Best books on shooting (slow fire/timed fire)M-L pistol in competition is the US Army Basic Pistol Marksmanship Manual written by the AMTU (Army Marksmanship Training Unit) at Fort Benning, GA, (available at gun shows)
AND
Gil Hebard's "Pistol Shooter's Treasury" out of Knoxville, ILL. Hebard's book has chapters written by men who all have one thing in common...they all won the National Pistol Championship at Camp Perry, OH.

One of the best that ever was, was "Mr Pistol" in the '60's at Camp Perry....Bill Blankenship.

He made a simple yet prolific statement that will stand the test of time in my store back in the '80's.

"ACCURACY IS 99% CONCENTRATION"

'Nuff Said. Everyone reading this is probably asleep already.

I'm a little wordy, sometimes. Hard to keep ramblings simple from such a simple mind.

"Keep 'em in the center" (close together)

Buck Buchanan Logged
I'd give my right arm to be ambidextrous.

NMLRA Field Rep- North Carolina
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Frizzen
Sr. Member

Posts: 487
Phil Piburn

Re: Line Pistols, Ten Ring, Yazel, Lightning and Lewis
« Reply #3 on: March 13, 2011, 05:51:03 AM »I enjoyed the read very much. Wish it had not ended. I have the Lewis, Yazel, and the Lightning.
Wife Paulette favors the Lightning. We favor the 32's. Wife won the womens at Friendship six
times now. Going for it again this June. Her and Joan have a real big time together. I remember the
time Joan was pacing up and down the line after Paulette had shot saying " I have to shoot a 90
at 50 yards to beat her, You believe that a 90 at 50" Oh we have had fun. All the above pistols
are good. Each one has good points and bad points. The older I get, I'm 68, I seem to shoot better
with the Lightning. The Yazel is probably the best engeneered. The Lewis shows more workmanship
His Flint to me is the very very best, and I have shot them all. The angle of the Lewis is more like
the Lightning, which is a copy of the Ruger Mark I. My hand is more a Ruger hand than a S&W 41.
They are all good, just somewhat different. I bought 34 boxes of Hornady when it was 9.00 a box.
There are about 700 in a box. Now ask me why I shoot 32's. Logged
The Pistol Shooter
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David Rase
Hero Member

Posts: 3131
I know nothing

Re: Line Pistols, Ten Ring, Yazel, Lightning and Lewis
« Reply #4 on: March 13, 2011, 06:07:28 AM »A little off topic but I thought I would share this with you paper punchers. I have the privilege of owning the first in-line pistol that Ron Long built. I was into paper punching back in the late 70's early 80's. Also owned a Ken Bresien underhammer action built by Ron. I have not shot the pistol in about 10 years. It has more sentimental value to me now then anything else. I sold it to a friend after I had owned it for about 5 years due to financial needs. Fortunately, that friend of mine could not shoot it worth a darn and I was able to acquire it back. I had a couple of friends who shot the Ten Ring Precision pistols. I always thought they were a little on the heavy side. Ron Long machined the pistol frame froma billet of aluminum and it uses HI-Standard grips, Micro rear sight and a .45 caliber Green Mountain Barrel. It goes without saying that it shoots like a dream.
DMR

Re: Line Pistols, Ten Ring, Yazel, Lightning and Lewis
« Reply #5 on: March 13, 2011, 06:19:00 AM »Here is a picture of Yazel top left and the Lightning and the Lewis Flint and bottom. You can see
the difference of the grip angles. I love the Ron Long pistol also.

The Yazel uses a Ed Rayl barrel, Lewis is Green Mt. The Lightning is a DeHass« Last Edit: March 13, 2011, 06:21:03 AM by Frizzen » Logged
The Pistol Shooter
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D. Buck Stopshere
Full Member

Haven't seen Joan & Dan since they took up 1/2 the year in Costa Rica and the other half here in NC.

Had a booth in the Lambsheds in Commercial Row from '73 until '98. They doubled the rent on folks in '97 or '98 and a lot of us just handed them the keys and said "so long". I was between the late Mick Koval of Koval Knives and Deer Creek Muzzle Loading Supply out of Waldron, IN.

Hard to remember names, been 12 years since I shot at Friendship. Glad to see Mark Tompkins doing well.
I traded a Yazel to him and got an original Remington NM Army .44 for it. Wish now, I had kept the Remington. Guess he holds the 50 yd slowfire record.

I pride myself in bringing a NC pistol shooter back in the late '80's, John Rooker. He has the enviable record set in the 25 meter International Match of the New Revolver Aggregate. 100 in 1988. I watched him shoot 10 tens and 3 eights. No one has tied that record. He won the National Championship a few times and became a Distinguished Master.

When John stopped coming, folks on the Pistol Line asked me if I was plannin' on bringing anyone else with me to the Nationals, anytime soon? Told them I knew this feller back in Fayetteville by the name of Dan Hardman, and the rest is history.

Logged
I'd give my right arm to be ambidextrous.

NMLRA Field Rep- North Carolina
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Frizzen
Sr. Member

Posts: 487
Phil Piburn

Re: Line Pistols, Ten Ring, Yazel, Lightning and Lewis
« Reply #7 on: March 13, 2011, 07:07:50 AM »Yea, tell me about it. I'm 68. I've been known to wear a name tag around my neck. Mark is a good
friend of ours. We always shoot beside each other. Had to loan him a co2 bottle when he dry-loaded
and didn't have any. He sent me a copy of his 50 yd record 98 3X. Knew Bill well also. Wife and I
talked to him when they had a cake for his 50 yrs of shooting at Friendship. I have spent many a
hour reading Bill's writing in "Muzzle Blast". another good one gone. He gave me a copy of his
100 9X's he shot in 1961. Saw the gun too. Won't be long before they will all be gone. Got to get
to Friendship every chance we can. Can't go in the fall right now because it's hard to take the 12
year daughter out of school. We will just be going in June until she's out in a few years. Oh the
daughter Halie just loves Joan. Joan has know her since we first took her to Friendship when she
was 3 years old. Used to sit her in her little red wagon while mom and I shot. Birdy good friend too.
They all kind of mothered around the daughter. Good friends are hard to find anymore. Hope to
meet you sometime. Logged
The Pistol Shooter
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gifford
Guest
Re: Line Pistols, Ten Ring, Yazel, Lightning and Lewis
« Reply #8 on: March 14, 2011, 01:33:06 AM »Thanks to one and all for the comments and pictures. Great info on the line pistols. G Logged
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zimmerstutzen
Sr. Member

Posts: 337

Re: Line Pistols, Ten Ring, Yazel, Lightning and Lewis
« Reply #9 on: March 14, 2011, 05:59:49 AM »I have a 10 ring that looks like a Toz Free Pistol. Also a pair of Lewis pistols in perc and flint. Also a pair of percussion tingle style guns made in Italy with fancy Rink style grips. Labeled Palmetto, but much better quality than usual for Palmetto.

I have a bizarre in-line rifle made by Pat Miller of Annapolice Maryland back in the 1960's complete with a false muzzle. Logged
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D. Buck Stopshere
Full Member

Re: Line Pistols, Ten Ring, Yazel, Lightning and Lewis
« Reply #11 on: March 14, 2011, 05:03:48 PM »Guys, this forum is for traditional muzzleloading rifles and pistols and while I hate to be a stickler for rules we seemed to have strayed far away from the intended areas of discussion that the board was created for. Here is a link to the ALR mission statement http://http://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/fusionbb/?action=recent lets try to stick to those topics.
Dennis
Logged
"I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend" - Thomas Jefferson
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Not sure if they qualify as a 'target' pistol but they're fun to shoot and play with. The lightweight #575494 Minie and tight fitting PRB loads are quite accurate. Loaded with big blank charges it will smoke up the Astrodome until about the 5th inning of game 2 of a double-header!

All that I can offer is that I have a CVA Mountain Pistol in 50 cal that is about 30 years old. I built it from a CVA kit and must have shot several thousand rounds through the gun. At the range last Sunday I shot seven rounds offhand and made a ragged hole about 2 inches in diameter at 15 yards from the target. Not too shabby for a 75 year old guy.
Many years ago, I had an issue with the lock and sent it back to CVA for repair along with a note stating how much I liked the gun. CVA repaired it and sent it back with no charge.

A few years back a buddy and I tried to organize a pistol match. Something that would take several relays. for instance, 25 yd paper, 35 to 65 yard silly wets, 50 yd paper, 100 yd paper from a rest and a heavy pistol 125 yd silhouette from a rest. We got interest from all over the country, but not enough locally to support a one or two day match. The fine target pistols might have an advantage on the paper, but not on the knock down targets and perhaps not on the distance shots.

to some, hitting the barn from the hay loft is accurate. While the traditions barrels should be good for PRB accuracy, the locks and triggers are not. Even if one added a good lock and set trigger the gun is very front heavy. And that is the nature of that style of grip. I would shave weight off the barrel by turning the forward 2/3 to round.

I think the OP is looking for a match style pistol out of the box. Too much modification of the traditions gun is required.

As durable as any I would say....I have had mine since the company changed it's name in 91..it was a kit I also have an older CVA in 45 cal.
The only complaints I would make are the factory ramrods and the screw on nose caps (brass screws don't like to be removed..... Otherwise they have been fine...
I paid less the $50. for one and won the other shooting.

One thing I've notice is that if people think they can shoot a rifle good, then they think they should be able to shoot a pistol accurately....learning to shoot a pistol is nothing like a rifle...
I'm an accomplished pistol shooter...so take that into consideration.

As durable as any I would say....I have had mine since the company changed it's name in 91..it was a kit I also have an older CVA in 45 cal.
The only complaints I would make are the factory ramrods and the screw on nose caps (brass screws don't like to be removed..... Otherwise they have been fine...
I paid less the $50. for one and won the other shooting.

One thing I've notice is that if people think they can shoot a rifle good, then they think they should be able to shoot a pistol accurately....learning to shoot a pistol is nothing like a rifle...
I'm an accomplished pistol shooter...so take that into consideration.

Pistol shooting uses different muscles, requires a strong shoulder, different stance, different use of the eyes for sighting. Just the hand's grip on the pistol for accurate aiming takes a certain conditioning.