Hi and thanks for visiting the best Ravens forum on the planet. You do not have to be a member to browse the various forums, but in order to post and interact with your purple brethren, you will have to **register**. It only takes a couple of minutes. You can also use your Facebook account to log in....just click on the blue 'FConnect' link at the very top of the page.

Jones got a lot of help from his Gs against the top SEC fronts...and the unit picked up the slack b/c they were better than everyone. We won't have that luxury/advantage. So I don't think Jones is the C we're looking for.

"On their way to the podium, the Ravens FO is going to collectively step over my dead body and select...Breshad Perriman." -- Me, the day before the Draft

Re: New draft/FA/offseason thread

Originally Posted by BigPlayReceiver

Jones got a lot of help from his Gs against the top SEC fronts...and the unit picked up the slack b/c they were better than everyone. We won't have that luxury/advantage. So I don't think Jones is the C we're looking for.

So, Yanda isn't as good as the guards for Alabama?

For the record, I think Jones would likely be a guard, but that of course depends on whether or not they feel comfortable with Gradkowski at center.

Re: New draft/FA/offseason thread

I don't think the Ravens can afford to pick a guard or a center with their first round pick. The team is flush with guard type players. They really need someone that can play LT next year. The could move Oher back to RT and put KO at Guard. They are going to have to ride Gradkowski or get a low price vet option at Center. C is not really a position you want to go with a rookie as they are typically responsible for making line calls. They could also pick up a Braxton Cave late in the draft as a developmental Center.

Re: New draft/FA/offseason thread

For the record, I think Jones would likely be a guard, but that of course depends on whether or not they feel comfortable with Gradkowski at center.

Yanda is very good, of course, but what I meant was that our OL as a unit vs. the NFL is far below Bama's OL vs. the NCAA.

We can ill-afford to have our Gs support our C too often b/c our unit isn't good enough to hold up otherwise (at least the roster we have right now). We need a C that can consistently carry his own and from what I see Jones most likely won't be able to right away in the NFL...if ever, at C.

Re: New draft/FA/offseason thread

Wicked, I like your mock A LOT. Lots of good picks all around. Your Ravens picks are solid, but none of them have the "value" feel that Ozzie usually goes for--grabbing a guy who's fallen farther than his talent level, i.e. Jimmy Smith, Upshaw, KO, etc. But maybe that's the kind of draft we need right now. Barrett Jones is a fine pick and a good fit. Gerald Hodges is a good pick, but not a great fit for a 3-4 ILB. I love Sean Porter as a player, but where does he play in the NFL? He doesn't have the block-shedding ability or the physicality of Von Miller even if he profiles similarly. I like him a lot, though.

Next year could be very interesting for the Ravens defensively. IMO the 2013 draft is FILLED with great 4-3 defensive players, not so much 3-4 guys outside of a few linemen. I'm not saying the Ravens should make a scheme change based on one draft, but the talent is there and if they make a change at DC, they could bring in a guy like Ron Rivera who has experience in both schemes. Imagine the Ravens playing a 4-3 with this personnel:

And you'd have some solid depth on the back end as well. Imagine if the draft looked like Wicked's mock--Hodges is a GREAT fit at MLB or WLB if we don't re-sign Ellerbe and/or release McClain. Sean Porter could step in as a nickel edge-rusher from the LB spot or even possibly start at one of the OLB spots. You'd free up the LBs from taking on too many blockers in the run game, and they could play further back in coverage to defend the middle of the field a bit better.

Re: New draft/FA/offseason thread

I think Tao will end up falling a good bit. Like you stated, there isnt an emphasis on ILB anymore and I dont think hes going to "wow" anyone physically like Patrick Willis. Im not sure Tao goes before Jones or a handful of other Pass Rushing Lbs/DEs. I think hes going to end up a lot like Upshaw and dropping, but end up nowhere near where Upshaw fell. Id say 15-20 range at the very furthest, but probably safe to say teens.

Re: New draft/FA/offseason thread

Originally Posted by bmorecareful

Wicked, I like your mock A LOT. Lots of good picks all around. Your Ravens picks are solid, but none of them have the "value" feel that Ozzie usually goes for--grabbing a guy who's fallen farther than his talent level, i.e. Jimmy Smith, Upshaw, KO, etc. But maybe that's the kind of draft we need right now. Barrett Jones is a fine pick and a good fit. Gerald Hodges is a good pick, but not a great fit for a 3-4 ILB. I love Sean Porter as a player, but where does he play in the NFL? He doesn't have the block-shedding ability or the physicality of Von Miller even if he profiles similarly. I like him a lot, though.

Next year could be very interesting for the Ravens defensively. IMO the 2013 draft is FILLED with great 4-3 defensive players, not so much 3-4 guys outside of a few linemen. I'm not saying the Ravens should make a scheme change based on one draft, but the talent is there and if they make a change at DC, they could bring in a guy like Ron Rivera who has experience in both schemes. Imagine the Ravens playing a 4-3 with this personnel:

And you'd have some solid depth on the back end as well. Imagine if the draft looked like Wicked's mock--Hodges is a GREAT fit at MLB or WLB if we don't re-sign Ellerbe and/or release McClain. Sean Porter could step in as a nickel edge-rusher from the LB spot or even possibly start at one of the OLB spots. You'd free up the LBs from taking on too many blockers in the run game, and they could play further back in coverage to defend the middle of the field a bit better.

I actually am secretly hoping that they transition to a 4-3.

I think that the current guys would be an ideal 4-3 front 7. I also think that by moving to a 4-3, it will help out against the gaping holes in the middle. Ngata lined up beside Art Jones right in the middle would be a stout front. Suggs at DE, Kruger at DE (assuming they keep him), Upshaw at DE, McPhee at DE/DT, Tyson at DT...That is a pretty nice rotation.

The problem with the 4-3 is right now (now being the key word) they just do not have the line backers for a 4-3 alignment. Ellerbe would be a good 4-3 linebacker, but that's it. Everyone else that can or is playing ILB (McClellan) isn't fast enough to really be a true 4-3 LB. If you look at our defensive roster, at it's core, we have a lot of defensive ends playing line backer right now and that is a big reason why we can't cover the middle of the field effectively.

McClain - DE at Syracuse.
McClellan - DE at Marshall.
Kruger - DE at Utah.
Suggs - DE at ASU.
Upshaw - DE at Alabama (did play some stand up OLB though).

Ellerbe, Ray Lewis, Josh Bynes, and Ayanbadejo are the only guys who have been linebackers for any great length of time.

Re: New draft/FA/offseason thread

Originally Posted by JAB1985

I think Tao will end up falling a good bit. Like you stated, there isnt an emphasis on ILB anymore and I dont think hes going to "wow" anyone physically like Patrick Willis. Im not sure Tao goes before Jones or a handful of other Pass Rushing Lbs/DEs. I think hes going to end up a lot like Upshaw and dropping, but end up nowhere near where Upshaw fell. Id say 15-20 range at the very furthest, but probably safe to say teens.

I think he has enough hype around him and has enough intangibles that some team is going to leap frog others to take him early in the draft. I would be VERY surprised if he lasted past the 10th pick.

Re: New draft/FA/offseason thread

Nice mock Wicked...just one small thing. We are picking either 26th or 27th now depending on a coin flip.

Although Walsh's system of offense can compensate for lack of talent; however, defense is a different story. According to Walsh, talent on defense was essential and could not be compensated for. What did Walsh do in 1981? He acquired physical and talented players on defense.

Re: New draft/FA/offseason thread

Originally Posted by wickedsolo

I actually am secretly hoping that they transition to a 4-3.

I think that the current guys would be an ideal 4-3 front 7. I also think that by moving to a 4-3, it will help out against the gaping holes in the middle. Ngata lined up beside Art Jones right in the middle would be a stout front. Suggs at DE, Kruger at DE (assuming they keep him), Upshaw at DE, McPhee at DE/DT, Tyson at DT...That is a pretty nice rotation.

The problem with the 4-3 is right now (now being the key word) they just do not have the line backers for a 4-3 alignment. Ellerbe would be a good 4-3 linebacker, but that's it. Everyone else that can or is playing ILB (McClellan) isn't fast enough to really be a true 4-3 LB. If you look at our defensive roster, at it's core, we have a lot of defensive ends playing line backer right now and that is a big reason why we can't cover the middle of the field effectively.

McClain - DE at Syracuse.
McClellan - DE at Marshall.
Kruger - DE at Utah.
Suggs - DE at ASU.
Upshaw - DE at Alabama (did play some stand up OLB though).

Ellerbe, Ray Lewis, Josh Bynes, and Ayanbadejo are the only guys who have been linebackers for any great length of time.

Agree with everything you said, with a slight exception for McClellan. As I recall, he has seen a lot of playing time at 4-3 SAM and they seem to like him at least in part in the old Jarret Johnson role. Under Mattison they actually played a lot of 4-3 with JJ at SAM playing over the TE. Obviously they don't want McClellan dropping into anything other than a curl/flat zone, but I do believe he can do that and set the edge well at that position.

The problem IMO is moreso at 4-3 Mike and Will. I am really hoping they sign Ellerbe and ask him to play MLB full time next year. To me, I'd much rather cut McClain and re-sign Ellerbe to a similar contract. If they can't do that McClain is the fallback plan at MLB, and he could still end up on the chopping block if they draft a young, fast MLB who shines in camp a la Bobby Wagner for the Seahawks this year.

At Will linebacker they really have nothing and nobody. Luckily, there are a lot of guys in this draft who could be drafted in the 2nd and 3rd round that look like potential day-one starters at the position. Lavonte David is a great example of a 2nd round guy who stepped in at 4-3 WLB and is playing at frankly a Pro Bowl level right now. The college ranks are really bristling with guys right around the 6'0-6'3 225-240 range that maybe can't take on blockers and thump in the run game all that well, but who can drop into coverage well and won't miss a one on one tackle in the open field against a shifty back. Hodges, CJ Mosley, Sean Porter, Arthur Brown, Jelani Jenkins, Jon Brown out of Illinois...

I really think the traditional 3-4 defense is going the way of the dodo and the NFL is shifting back to the 4-3, but with a lot of insane athletes at the LB and DE positions. You can just do so much more that way. REALLY think the Ravens should make the move this offseason.

Re: New draft/FA/offseason thread

Originally Posted by bmorecareful

Agree with everything you said, with a slight exception for McClellan. As I recall, he has seen a lot of playing time at 4-3 SAM and they seem to like him at least in part in the old Jarret Johnson role. Under Mattison they actually played a lot of 4-3 with JJ at SAM playing over the TE. Obviously they don't want McClellan dropping into anything other than a curl/flat zone, but I do believe he can do that and set the edge well at that position.

The problem IMO is moreso at 4-3 Mike and Will. I am really hoping they sign Ellerbe and ask him to play MLB full time next year. To me, I'd much rather cut McClain and re-sign Ellerbe to a similar contract. If they can't do that McClain is the fallback plan at MLB, and he could still end up on the chopping block if they draft a young, fast MLB who shines in camp a la Bobby Wagner for the Seahawks this year.

At Will linebacker they really have nothing and nobody. Luckily, there are a lot of guys in this draft who could be drafted in the 2nd and 3rd round that look like potential day-one starters at the position. Lavonte David is a great example of a 2nd round guy who stepped in at 4-3 WLB and is playing at frankly a Pro Bowl level right now. The college ranks are really bristling with guys right around the 6'0-6'3 225-240 range that maybe can't take on blockers and thump in the run game all that well, but who can drop into coverage well and won't miss a one on one tackle in the open field against a shifty back. Hodges, CJ Mosley, Sean Porter, Arthur Brown, Jelani Jenkins, Jon Brown out of Illinois...

I really think the traditional 3-4 defense is going the way of the dodo and the NFL is shifting back to the 4-3, but with a lot of insane athletes at the LB and DE positions. You can just do so much more that way. REALLY think the Ravens should make the move this offseason.

Another reason I'd like to see them transition to the 4-3 is because I REALLY want them to draft Joe Vellano out of Maryland. Homer? Absolutely, but the guy just doesn't effin quit. He's kind of hard to find a spot for (from a traditional stance) because of his size (6'1" 285lbs), but the guy reminds me of a quicker Kelly Gregg. Complete underdog with a major chip on his shoulder.

Re: New draft/FA/offseason thread

I know some don't think much of him and I agree that it would be risky, but if he's still there, I'd like the team to take a chance on Mathieu with one of their mid round comp picks.

I think he'd be a good gamble at the very end of the 4th or 5th round.

Although Walsh's system of offense can compensate for lack of talent; however, defense is a different story. According to Walsh, talent on defense was essential and could not be compensated for. What did Walsh do in 1981? He acquired physical and talented players on defense.