Leftcoast 2 blocks from the beach, down the street from a green haze called Venice.

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6,646

Originally Posted by Wells

I mean seriously, how can you even suggest that your conspiracy theory is the simplest answer over "they agree with Palestine".

That is saying you agree with a terrorist state, and you want a war in the Middle east. I can not believe that the Majority of the Worlds governments are ignorant as to what is happening. I can not believe that smart rational people would almost uniformly vote of something that can lead the world into a major war. Even though we have a Liberal president the US will charge in if anyone attacks Israel, and this series of events can lead up to all out War.

Leftcoast 2 blocks from the beach, down the street from a green haze called Venice.

Posts

6,646

Originally Posted by Stormspellz

essentially this, american religious fanatics see isreal has an ally vs the "evil" muslims, even how wrong such thinking is on so many levels that is the under line if not spoken break down of it.

From September 1993 - 2006
1500+ Israelis have been murdered by Palestinian terrorist.

I'm not saying Muslims are evil, but Hamas is. Do I need to start quoting their literature?

"The Day of Judgement will not come about until Moslems fight the Jews (killing the Jews), when the Jew will hide behind stones and trees. The stones and trees will say O Moslems, O Abdulla, there is a Jew behind me, come and kill him. Only the Gharkad tree, (evidently a certain kind of tree) would not do that because it is one of the trees of the Jews."

---------- Post added 2012-11-30 at 07:41 PM ----------

I have more words of wisdom from Hamas.

Article Eight:

Allah is its target, the Prophet is its model, the Koran its constitution: Jihad is its path and death for the sake of Allah is the loftiest of its wishes.

Article Eleven:

The Islamic Resistance Movement believes that the land of Palestine is an Islamic Waqf consecrated for future Moslem generations until Judgement Day. It, or any part of it, should not be squandered: it, or any part of it, should not be given up. Neither a single Arab country nor all Arab countries, neither any king or president, nor all the kings and presidents, neither any organization nor all of them, be they Palestinian or Arab, possess the right to do that. Palestine is an Islamic Waqf land consecrated for Moslem generations until Judgement Day. This being so, who could claim to have the right to represent Moslem generations till Judgement Day?

This is the law governing the land of Palestine in the Islamic Sharia (law) and the same goes for any land the Moslems have conquered by force, because during the times of (Islamic) conquests, the Moslems consecrated these lands to Moslem generations till the Day of Judgement.

It happened like this: When the leaders of the Islamic armies conquered Syria and Iraq, they sent to the Caliph of the Moslems, Umar bin-el-Khatab, asking for his advice concerning the conquered land - whether they should divide it among the soldiers, or leave it for its owners, or what? After consultations and discussions between the Caliph of the Moslems, Omar bin-el-Khatab and companions of the Prophet, Allah bless him and grant him salvation, it was decided that the land should be left with its owners who could benefit by its fruit. As for the real ownership of the land and the land itself, it should be consecrated for Moslem generations till Judgement Day. Those who are on the land, are there only to benefit from its fruit. This Waqf remains as long as earth and heaven remain. Any procedure in contradiction to Islamic Sharia, where Palestine is concerned, is null and void.

"Verily, this is a certain truth. Wherefore praise the name of thy Lord, the great Allah." (The Inevitable - verse 95).

I really love this one.

Article Thirteen:

Initiatives, and so-called peaceful solutions and international conferences, are in contradiction to the principles of the Islamic Resistance Movement. Abusing any part of Palestine is abuse directed against part of religion. Nationalism of the Islamic Resistance Movement is part of its religion. Its members have been fed on that. For the sake of hoisting the banner of Allah over their homeland they fight. "Allah will be prominent, but most people do not know."

Now and then the call goes out for the convening of an international conference to look for ways of solving the (Palestinian) question. Some accept, others reject the idea, for this or other reason, with one stipulation or more for consent to convening the conference and participating in it. Knowing the parties constituting the conference, their past and present attitudes towards Moslem problems, the Islamic Resistance Movement does not consider these conferences capable of realising the demands, restoring the rights or doing justice to the oppressed. These conferences are only ways of setting the infidels in the land of the Moslems as arbitraters. When did the infidels do justice to the believers?

"But the Jews will not be pleased with thee, neither the Christians, until thou follow their religion; say, The direction of Allah is the true direction. And verily if thou follow their desires, after the knowledge which hath been given thee, thou shalt find no patron or protector against Allah." (The Cow - verse 120).

There is no solution for the Palestinian question except through Jihad. Initiatives, proposals and international conferences are all a waste of time and vain endeavors. The Palestinian people know better than to consent to having their future, rights and fate toyed with. As in said in the honourable Hadith:

"The people of Syria are Allah's lash in His land. He wreaks His vengeance through them against whomsoever He wishes among His slaves It is unthinkable that those who are double-faced among them should prosper over the faithful. They will certainly die out of grief and desperation."

essentially this, american religious fanatics see isreal has an ally vs the "evil" muslims, even how wrong such thinking is on so many levels that is the under line if not spoken break down of it.

Well then they are doing it wrong because the first they they would do is break up religious unity in Jerusalem and raise the Dome of the Rock. Considering that no one is doing that, I don't think your their is as popular as you think it is.

And out of these 15 that matter, the majority voted for Palastine to be recognised. So, what exactly are you trying to say? or are you afraid to admit that the US and apparently your opinion too isn't popular in the international stage?

I'm saying that what is 'popular' on the international stage only matters insofar as it generates real challenges, not show circuses like this crap in the UN.

---------- Post added 2012-12-01 at 02:02 AM ----------

Originally Posted by Slacker76

You contradict yourself. Israel cannot embrace a realist doctrine and and some bygone historical doctrine at the same time. Before WWI world powers were clinging to Colonialism even as it was in decline.

Israel has no foreign policy. Their sheer reliance on the US for diplomatic and military cover has caused any foreign policy to atrophy. Their behavior has driven away Turkey. But Likud likes to claim new relations with Azerbijan as an improvement. Next they will be telling us the the Czech republic is the New Europe. Who need France, Spain and Germany.

You were right to point out the Colonialism of pre-WWI. It failed and the world abandoned it with good reason.

Its so far from being Realist.

Very droll, but colonialism and realism are not necessarily contradictory, especially if colonial acquisitions are made based on the national interest. If you can even call Israel's current actions 'colonialist', given that they are more aimed at eliminating strongholds of insurgence.

Colonialism was abandoned because the great powers lost the willpower to maintain their empires, period.

What you fail to see is why would Portugal or Spain vote yes or No, Why would 150 Countries To Vote “Yes” For Palestine. And the Nations which voted No, what do they have in common? What about nations which didn't vote. Look at that map. Take you time think it through use logic. the simplest answer is usually correct. Palestine, two regions (Gaza, West Bank) in the middle east which are divided and hostile to their neighbor (Israel), which is days away from open war with each other, It has a non-functional government, and the granting Nationhood will almost guarantee a war.

"But we like the Palestinians and feel sorry for them so we will give them Nationhood."

I'm sorry that takes too much work to believe it's not simple.

Saudi Leaders call every nation on earth and tell them Palestine will be a Nation, or gas prices go up.

Which is more believable?

---------- Post added 2012-11-30 at 07:13 PM ----------

I should point out some of the nations that voted yes, would normally not vote the same way as their neighboring state, because they hate their neighbor. ie India and Pakistan, both have traditionally been Allies to America but secretly want to nuke each other. Pakistan is a mostly Muslim State, on merits alone India normally would vote no on something like this. They voted yes. South Africa a long term Allie of Israel, voted yes. Something fishy don't you think?

See you sometimes sound like a normal guy.
Then you come up with stuff like this.
How dare YOU as a single man, put yourself, even after all the (twisted) reading you do (guessing from your mother's library huh? ), in front of 150 countries, and say "there is something fishy".
Who are YOU to call on something fishy in regards to the UN.
It's not up to YOU to say that. You can judge, or spread your "facts" around the table as you like my friend.
But YOU are YOU. Not 151 countries. So you listen to what they say, bow your head, and say "ok".

Exactly what Israel should do.

Is it detrimental to peace?
We'll find out. NOT YOUR CALL.
Is it going to make the area unstable?
Well find out. NOT YOUR CALL.
Is it going to make things better? Or worse?
We'll find out. NOT OUR CALL.

From September 1993 - 2006
1500+ Israelis have been murdered by Palestinian terrorist.

I'm not saying Muslims are evil, but Hamas is. Do I need to start quoting their literature?

---------- Post added 2012-11-30 at 07:41 PM ----------

I have more words of wisdom from Hamas.

I really love this one.

Man...
You don't want to get on comparing death tolls between the two sides.
You really dont want that.
Second point. You act as if Hamas was a... lets say, natural evolution of the Palestinian society.
Hamas is the unwanted son of israel my friend. Israel has to blame the sabra and shatila, the massacres of '48, the bombing of infrastructures, the white phosphorous, the using of Palestinian kids as human shields, the illegal settlements, etc. etc. etc... for the birth of its very own enemy.

"Whatever is ultimately discovered about the carnage committed by Israel's forces, enough is known to implicate Sharon for a form of ethnic cleansing--purposefully destroying the Palestinians' ability to govern themselves. The systematic destruction of the signposts of nascent Palestinian statehood--statistics bureaus, education ministries, electricity and water supplies--is aimed at further uprooting a refugee population." Robert Scheer, Los Angeles Times, April 16, 2002

Don't think Hamas is born out of nowhere.
Hamas is born from the seeds of anger, repression, ignorance, and misery. Seeds that have been spread willingly from Israel on the area, and you can't deny that.

Now the damage is done, and the solution aint easy.
It's up to who ISN'T living in poverty, ignorance, misery, and repression to show the way, to LEAD the way.
IF Israel really wants peace, they have to do that. Otherwise there won't be any peace.
You can't kill them all you won't be able to do that if ANYONE should know this is the Jewish people.

---------- Post added 2012-12-10 at 01:12 AM ----------

And again.

Early estimates by independent contractors in Gaza say that Gaza lost nearly $2 billion in assets, including 4,000 homes destroyed.[344] The IDF destroyed 600–700 factories, small industries, workshops and business enterprises throughout the Gaza Strip,[345] 24 mosques, 31 security compounds, and 10 water or sewage lines.[346] The World Health Organization said that 34 health facilities (8 hospitals and 26 primary health care clinics) were damaged over the course of the offensive and the UNOCHA said that over 50 United Nations facilities sustained damage, of which 28 reported damage in the first three days of the operation.[347] On 22 January 2010, Israel paid $10.5 million in compensation to the United Nations for damages to UN property incurred during the Israeli offensive.[348]

A satellite-based damage assessment of the Gaza Strip by the United Nations revealed 2,692 destroyed and severely damaged buildings, 220 impact craters on roads and bridges with an estimated length of 167 km (104 mi) of paved and unpaved roads damaged, 714 impact craters on open ground or cultivated land with an estimated land area of 2,100 hectares (21 km²), 187 greenhouses completely destroyed or severely damaged with an estimated area of 28 hectares (0.28 km²), and 2,232 hectares (22.32 km²) of demolished zones targeted by IDF bulldozers, tanks and phosphorus shelling.[349]

Approximately 1.5 million Palestinian civilians have died since 1948,including the victims of the ethnic cleansing campaigns in the west in 1948-50 and in the east since 1967. Civilian deaths have escalated dramatically in recent years since the zionists developed their obsession with the Palestinian birth-rate,and children are often the target. There is only a small fine for killing a Palestinian in cold blood. It's based on a weapons charge,not murder. To understand the genocidal character of this vile regime,one need only glance at the responses from zionists; at least half advocate or at least imply approval of the killing of non-jews. Adocating genocide is by the way a reportable offence on Y/A. Aproximately 2000 civilian Palestinians are killed each year. If you are jewish and you shoot an 8-year-old Palestinian girl in cold blood,you will have your weapons license revoked for three months and pay a fine equivalent to 50-100 dollars U.S. It's considered by the "government'"to be more or less the same thing as shooting squirrals within city limits with a .22. would be in America. Zionists love to murder Palestinian children and they do it all the time. The military handles the mass-murders. We are not talking about suicide bombers or militants; those figures fall into another category. I am referring to wanton killing of civilians.

So my dear friend, don't be so hasty in linking "sentences from a book", or numbers.
I do see Hamas only as violence, but I understand that THAT is its only purpose. It's been CREATED for that only purpose.
If there wasn't any anger, there wouldn't be Hamas. Funny isnt it.

The Islamic countries facing the Mediterranean arent prone to fundamentalism, Syria, Lebanon, Jordan, Palestine, Egypt, Libya, Algeria, Tunisia, Morocco. They have been trading with the rest of Europe for so long now.
This is true ESPECIALLY for the Middle East.

The Islamic world goes from Philippines to Mali, if you think they're all at the same level of social evolution you are dead wrong.

---------- Post added 2012-12-10 at 01:43 AM ----------

Ah sorry, I could NOT go away without my favourite piece.
Ladies and gentlemen, from the operation CAST LEAD I present you...

The killing of animals in the zoo

The Gaza Zoo reeks of death. But zookeeper Emad Jameel Qasim doesn't appear to react to the stench as he walks around the animals' enclosures.
Watch video of Gaza zoo carnage
A month ago, it was attracting families - he says the zoo drew up to 1,000 visitors each day. He points at the foot-long hole in the camel in one of the enclosures.
"This camel was pregnant, a missile went into her back," he tells us. "Look, look at her face. She was in pain when she died."
Article continues below

Around every corner, inside almost every cage are dead animals, who have been lying in their cages since the Israeli incursion.
Qasim doesn't understand why they chose to destroy his zoo. And it's difficult to disagree with him. Most of them have been shot at point blank range.
"The first thing the Israelis did was shoot at the lions - the animals ran out of their cage and into the office building. Actually they hid there."
The two lions are back in their enclosure. The female is pregnant, and lies heavily on the ground, occasionally swishing her tail. Qasim stands unusually close to them, but they don't seem bothered by his presence.
As he takes us around, he is obviously appalled at the state of the animals. The few animals that have survived appear weak and disturbed.
"The foxes ate each other because we couldn't get to them in time. We had many here." There are carcasses everywhere and the last surviving fox is quivering in the corner.

The zoo opened in late 2005, with money from local and international NGOs. There were 40 types of animals, a children's library, a playground and cultural centre housed at the facility.

Inside the main building, soldiers defaced the walls, ripped out one of the toilets and removed all of the hard drives from the office computers. We asked him why they targeted the zoo. He laughs. "I don't know. You have to go and ask the Israelis. This is a place where people come to relax and enjoy themselves. It's not a place of politics."
Israel has accused Hamas of firing rockets from civilian areas. Qasim reacts angrily when we raise the subject.
"Let me answer that with a question. We are under attack. There was not a single person in this zoo. Just the animals. We all fled before they came. What purpose does it serve to walk around shooting animals and destroying the place?"
Inside one cage lie three dead monkeys and another two in the cage beside them. Two more escaped and have yet to return. He points to a clay pot. "They tried to hide", he says of a mother and baby half-tucked inside.
Qasim says that his main two priorities at the moment are rebuilding the zoo and taking the Israeli army to court. For the first, he says he will need close to $200,000(Dh734,000) to return the zoo to its former state - and he wants the Israelis to cover the costs. "They have to pay me for all this damage."
We ask him why it's so important for Gaza to have a zoo. "During the past four years it was the most popular place for kids. They came from all over the Gaza Strip. There was nowhere else for people to go."
Has Israel gone berserk and lost all sense of reasoning? Should it be tried for war crimes at The Hague?
--------------------------------

See you sometimes sound like a normal guy.
Then you come up with stuff like this.
How dare YOU as a single man, put yourself, even after all the (twisted) reading you do (guessing from your mother's library huh? ), in front of 150 countries, and say "there is something fishy".
Who are YOU to call on something fishy in regards to the UN.
It's not up to YOU to say that. You can judge, or spread your "facts" around the table as you like my friend.
But YOU are YOU. Not 151 countries. So you listen to what they say, bow your head, and say "ok".

Posts like this would convince me that Israel is in the right even if I knew nothing about the situation. The depths of idiocy required to think that ~150 countries voting for something makes it right is something only an Israel hater could posess.

I will call UN actions fishy and suspicious whenever I wish. And guess what, any intelligent person knows that 90% of the UN is nothing more than a third world west hating circle-jerk. The only part the West gives two shits about is the UNSC as it is where veto power resides and the third world poor house circlejerk can't brute force it's way through with the duly obedient culturally backward voting bloc it possesses. To tell someone they cannot call out the UN, and then act as if the UN is some inviolable bastion of justice and truth is to walk around wearing a sign with an arrow pointing upwards that says "I'm an idiot". 151 countries can say what they want, and I can look at reality, look at the facts, and then tell them that they are a collection of retarded shits whose collective brains wouldn't be enough to fill my toilet, of which the contents are more intelligent than they.

Last edited by Crackalackin; 2012-12-10 at 05:55 AM.
Reason: This aint a troll! It's pure truth. I duly expect a warn/ban for telling the unvarnished truth and offending the delicate sensibilities of those mentally lacking posters whom will enter this topic now

They should not be recognized at all when the only area they have any even partially justifiable claim to is the Gaza Strip.

---------- Post added 2012-12-10 at 12:50 AM ----------

Originally Posted by obdigore

Isn't the official explanation that any UN recognition of a state of palestine (of which there has never been a nation before) would become problematic to any agreements between Isreal and Palestine?

And didn't Palestine refuse to become their own state back in '47 when the UN tried to setup Isreal and Palestine next to each other?

No, what happened was that Jordan forcibly annexed the land that was supposed to be set aside for the Palestinians, killing thousands in the process. Blame them, not the Israelis.

---------- Post added 2012-12-10 at 01:04 AM ----------

Originally Posted by Gog

FYI the USA wants to protect Israel because they believe in the bible and that Jerusalem has to exist for baby Jebus to come back. And they think that the Jews are gods chosen people so they need to be protected since god can't protect them.

You may say that sarcastically but you have just stated the truth.

Also- Muslims have no right to any territory in the area except possibly the Gaza strip and no right at all to any part of Jerusalem. Tear down the mosque.