Despite the precious poster being confused by old and outdated information that was posted in the wiki (there is no such thing as "armor ignore" in the game) I second his recommendation for Paris Prime for most cases.

Paris prime does "Physics Impact Damage" which was confused in the past as "armor ignore": "they [enemies] will always receive the source weapon's calculated base damage, unmodified by armor."

This refers to body part armor and not enemy armor as you can see further in that page that some grineer mobs still has armor calculations.

Paris prime is much easier to use, you need to always do weakspot hits with Dread for it to be better. Neither of them are very good, so it's pretty okay to just pick which one you think is cooler to be honest.

Dor99alon wrote:Despite the precious poster being confused by old and outdated information that was posted in the wiki (there is no such thing as "armor ignore" in the game) I second his recommendation for Paris Prime for most cases.

Paris prime does "Physics Impact Damage" which was confused in the past as "armor ignore": "they [enemies] will always receive the source weapon's calculated base damage, unmodified by armor."

This refers to body part armor and not enemy armor as you can see further in that page that some grineer mobs still has armor calculations.

This topic... again.. how about some actual numbers? These are from Mad5cout's damage calculator (version 3.1 at the time). Mobs are set at level 100, and each bow is using a crit build (Serration, Split Chamber, Piercing Hit, Vital Sense, Point Strike, Hammer Shot, Piercing Hit, Speed Trigger and Shred).

The average damage is a bit skewed towards Dread because of the light units within each faction.

Dread faction scores:

Grineer

Corpus

Infested

Average Damage

2985

5978

4835

Average DPS

2466.05

5600.44

4294.13

Paris Prime faction scores:

Grineer

Corpus

Infested

Average Damage

3051

4823

2808

Average DPS

2685.6

4507.09

2569.13

We can also take a look at some heavy units for a better idea of how they'll perform.

Erm, I did not ignore that at all. The build I plugged into the calculator is a critical damage build. The calculator also does factor in crits in its calculations (except on 'average hits to kill' which is why I took it out of the tables).

Erm, I did not ignore that at all. The build I plugged into the calculator is a critical damage build. The calculator also does factor in crits in its calculations (except on 'average hits to kill' which is why I took it out of the tables).

- Crit builds are dumb for weapons with such slow fire rates. Bows are supposed to oneshot stuff, and crit is not the way to ensure that as you can't get it to 100%.

- Crit builds are even more dumb if the weapon doesn't have 200% Crit Damage base (Paris Prime), and THAT is the most obvious reason why comparing the 2 weapons' DPS in a crit build (that btw takes a Catalyst and 3 Forma if you used Voqualin's build with all mods maxed out) shows the Dread winning.

- Bows are not high end weapons because of their rate of fire in general, their overall DPS (this does NOT! NOT! NOT! mean their damage per shot is low) is just terrible. They are fun weapons mostly unless you (for some reason) think sneaking through an entire mission does anything worth the time.

- Paris Prime does more DPS to Grineer than Dread, while Dread does more DPS to Corpus and Infested than Paris Prime.

- Crit builds are dumb for weapons with such slow fire rates. Bows are supposed to oneshot stuff, and crit is not the way to ensure that as you can't get it to 100%.

- Crit builds are even more dumb if the weapon doesn't have 200% Crit Damage base (Paris Prime), and THAT is the most obvious reason why comparing the 2 weapons' DPS in a crit build (that btw takes a Catalyst and 3 Forma if you used Voqualin's build with all mods maxed out) shows the Dread winning.

- Bows are not high end weapons because of their rate of fire in general, their overall DPS (this does NOT! NOT! NOT! mean their damage per shot is low) is just terrible. They are fun weapons mostly unless you (for some reason) think sneaking through an entire mission does anything worth the time.

- Paris Prime does more DPS to Grineer than Dread, while Dread does more DPS to Corpus and Infested than Paris Prime.

... or just go Despair as it pretty much beats any primary in terms of DPS (do the math all you want, you'll get the same results) without using crit mods and even without ANY forma whatsoever.

I have to disagree that crit builds suck. Yes, the ideal way to use a bow is to one shot enemies (even this is arguable), but on any heavy of a sufficient level, any build you use isn't going to one shot it. At that point, you should just be maximizing your potential damage per shot, which means crit builds.

Here's the faction metascores for Paris Prime with an elemental build, and you can easily see it's inferior to a crit build in both average damage (per shot) and DPS.

META SCORES

Grineer

Corpus

Infested

Average Damage

1803

3034

2213

Average DPS

1543.4

2916.37

1998.87

I also don't see why people need to always bring in other weapons into these bow discussions. Some people just like bows and want to use them; they don't care if Despair has better DPS.

Think I got slightly different numbrs for DPS on an elemental build, but anyhow I suppose the DPS could be better for your crit build. I really like using Bows btw, I just don't think they are worth anything because they are so easily outdone DPS-wise by most other guns. That's the point I was getting at mostly - if you really insist on using a Bow for DPS I suppose it's not dumb to go with a crit build.

Well, even if you just consider average damage per shot, crit builds will come out of top (according to my calculations at least). The only advantage I see to elemental builds is that they have more consistent damage but that's with a caveat. If you hit any protected body part of any high level enemy (or even mid level medium Grineer, since they have so much armor), your elemental damage is heavily reduced. It's for this reason that I don't see elemental builds to be that useful as one may predict.

This hasn't been updated in awhile.. Since Damage 2.0 my dread is extremely lacking in DPS even on crits with a crit build, to come close to what i had before 2.0 I'd have to stack damage mods and reduce reload/fire speed AND get perfect hits on weak spots, which is fine for small waves and weak enemies but at higher levels (Lvl20+ sometimes depending on frame) can dominate you when using a bow. I did enjoy Dread and had considered getting the Paris Prime but now I'm resistant towards either, they simply do not cut it for late game enemies, especially high shield mobs (Can not crit on shields).

But open to opinions, anyone have something to say about Dread VS Paris Prime on Damage 2.0? (AKA Stalker eats your face update)

Damage 2.0 has changed this around the Dread is simply the best other than against Grineer and that case the Paris Prime is. The Dread has the Same stats as the Paris prime(excluding damage) other than the Dread has a higher crit multipler their for better end of story

98.26.157.27 wrote:This hasn't been updated in awhile.. Since Damage 2.0 my dread is extremely lacking in DPS even on crits with a crit build, to come close to what i had before 2.0 I'd have to stack damage mods and reduce reload/fire speed AND get perfect hits on weak spots, which is fine for small waves and weak enemies but at higher levels (Lvl20+ sometimes depending on frame) can dominate you when using a bow. I did enjoy Dread and had considered getting the Paris Prime but now I'm resistant towards either, they simply do not cut it for late game enemies, especially high shield mobs (Can not crit on shields).

But open to opinions, anyone have something to say about Dread VS Paris Prime on Damage 2.0? (AKA Stalker eats your face update)

Actual it can cirt against shields i ahve done it a couple of times however it doesnt show up in the same color as a crit on health. Yes it is great end game against infested and corpus easly as armor ignore is gone and Grineer are the only faction with more than like 2 units that are considered Armored units while corpus crewman and all infested and non heavy Grineer all have damage buffs to slashing damage

what I would say is what approach are you using? are you using stealth? or mid ranged combat with a high dpb? paris is built as a stealth aid to take out far away targets. dread is a high dpb combat weapon that happens to be silent.

Both have their uses, though I'd say Paris Prime is better at almost every aspect that counts. Since it does puncture damage it has a bonus against all armoured and robotic(after their shields are down) units, that means all grineer(except for seer and commander - dunno why), MOA's and osprey's(though hitting an osprey with a bow is kinda hard in general). That bonus damage remains at all levels while Dread's slash damage is getting way lower as the mobs gain levels - especially robotic units which get only half damage from slash.

Against shield both are equal, but since Paris got a higher base damage it also gets alot(considering you have seration) more from elemental mods, and thus take shields down faster(especially if you get magnetic). Having a higher crit multiplier is nice - but you don't crit all the time, and slash damage is fun versus infested but using a bow against them is in my opinion a fail in the first place - alot of freaking weak melee units verus a strong, slowly firing weapon that misses quite often at close range - burst rifles or melee weapons do short work of infested alot faster.

Why is this still going on...
Have you tested both weapons before posting? Have you seen their damage ingame or have you just looked at the stats?

Paris Prime and Dread do the same additive damage on charge attacks. Both of them rely heavily on critical hits to deal damage. Because of Dread's higher critical damage, elemental mods are superior on Dread as opposed to the PP.

Against grineer, corrosive damage is superior to puncture damage, which gives dread an edge. Against corpus, blade damage affects the health of corpus crewmen, and the magnetic element destroys both humanoid and robotic corpus enemies. There isn't a need to say dread is better against infested.

Paris Prime is by no means a bad weapon. But dread is also by no means inferior to it.

I've been using the Dread for a few days now, current rank with it 21, and it doesn't seem to matter who I shoot. 9/10 I'm killing them. I have the Thunderbolt and damager booster mods on it can't remember the name. Corpus, Greeier, Infected all drop on a full charger shot.

Well I think it is safe to say damage 2.0 makes Dread out shine Paris Prime, due to high critical chance and slash damage. So, unless you are killing only moas and don't have a good secondary for moas, it will be Dread over Paris Prime.

truth fully though, I must disagree with reddrago, the dread and paris prime are essentially equal, but are best used on different types of enemy factions. thats why they introduced the new type of bow.

Connorpistol wrote:truth fully though, I must disagree with reddrago, the dread and paris prime are essentially equal, but are best used on different types of enemy factions. thats why they introduced the new type of bow.

That is why I quoted moas. The Paris Prime only betters dread Vs Robotics (Moas, Jackle, ambulas, ect.) which is a fairly small selection of enemies and it use agenst more armoured enemies, conpared to Dread that does x1.5 damage on every hit Vs Corpus Crewman (once sheilds are down) ,Grineer (exept rollers) and Infested (All). The fact a crit build works on a Dread makes it all so more deadly, where as Paris Prime can't really achieve that.

Although I agree that the Bows are more differed for enemy factions, the fact that Dread can easily soar through the majority of enemies in all 3 factions surely makes it outshine the Paris Prime which is only good for it's puncture damage which is only overly effective on armoured targets, and that a good build makes it great for corpus, OK for Grineer and creates little effect on Infested.

68.40.29.23 wrote:Slash dmg ond dread isnt just effective for infested. My build of dread gives me 40k crits of slash dmg and a high point strike and vital sense. I one shot kril, hek, phorid, and tyl regor

I don't want to call BS so soon, so I'll assume you mean one shot after Lech Kril is in his "fire form." But seriously what build are you using to one shot him!? I've accomplished a one shot on other bosses with the Dread but never on Lech Kril.

- Puncture damage is usefull in alot more situations than Slash or Impact are, including Void where more than half the targets are armored at all times

- Ragdolling makes it able to kill 2 targets in a crowd with one arrow, no other bow can do this, as ragdolling seems to be doing the same damage on the 2nd target as the 1st, Dread can damage targets behind the 1st target but at reduced damage.

619666 wrote:Advantages of this bow over Dread that have not been mentioned are:

- Puncture damage is usefull in alot more situations than Slash or Impact are, including Void where more than half the targets are armored at all times

- Ragdolling makes it able to kill 2 targets in a crowd with one arrow, no other bow can do this, as ragdolling seems to be doing the same damage on the 2nd target as the 1st, Dread can damage targets behind the 1st target but at reduced damage.

Seriously, you either don't have PP(in which case you are just trolling) or are unable to read through what I wrote. Both PP and Dread arrow flight speed have been significantly buffed - they were equal before the buff and they are still now. And if by any reason one has faster arrows than the other it's nothing that can be clearly observed.

Seriously, you either don't have PP(in which case you are just trolling) or are unable to read through what I wrote. Both PP and Dread arrow flight speed have been significantly buffed - they were equal before the buff and they are still now. And if by any reason one has faster arrows than the other it's nothing that can be clearly observed.

LOL I can't read? Maybe you should look at the freakin update notes before you assume I'm a troll. I have both bows, and I just tested them both. I don't have anything to capture with, but the arrow speeds look fairly identicial, although I still think dread has a tiny tiny edge.

Unable to read? Like seriously? You should either get a capture card, video you using both bows, and prove me wrong, or wipe off the tears, shut up, and dealwithit.jpeg. ( •_•) ( •_•)>⌐■-■ (⌐■_■)

Did you not read the hotfix/update? Why are you acting like he can't read? You are the only one not reading _-_ They now both have the same flight speed, they did not before.. I can attest to this as I have had and used both since they came out..

'Least I'm not putting up false garbage statements like "Did you not read the hotfix/update? Why are you acting like he can't read? You are the only one not reading." So, if any of you "lone Tenno" care to prove me wrong, link me to the update page where Paris prime's arrow speed was confirmed by DE to have been buffed. Otherwise deal with it.

Seriously, you either don't have PP(in which case you are just trolling) or are unable to read through what I wrote. Both PP and Dread arrow flight speed have been significantly buffed - they were equal before the buff and they are still now. And if by any reason one has faster arrows than the other it's nothing that can be clearly observed.

LOL I can't read? Maybe you should look at the freakin update notes before you assume I'm a troll. I have both bows, and I just tested them both. I don't have anything to capture with, but the arrow speeds look fairly identicial, although I still think dread has a tiny tiny edge.

Unable to read? Like seriously? You should either get a capture card, video you using both bows, and prove me wrong, or wipe off the tears, shut up, and dealwithit.jpeg. ( •_•) ( •_•)>⌐■-■ (⌐■_■)

There is no real point in trying to prove to you that you are wrong as you don't seem to able to accept it anyway. Pasting patch notes from DE proves nothing as it seems they got their own information wrong(void reward chances for example or even drops) or just the fact that 'slightly' in their launguage means +150% increase of a stat. But hey, not all people like have their own mind, some - just like you - prefer to take any piece of information given to them as truth.

All of this discussion started because you weren't able to understand that both PP and Dread had their arrow speeds buffed despite only Dread was mentioned in the patch notes and now, when you realize you were wrong, you simply state that "dread has a tiny tiny edge"(while still insulting).

There is no real point in trying to prove to you that you are wrong as you don't seem to able to accept it anyway. Pasting patch notes from DE proves nothing as it seems they got their own information wrong(void reward chances for example or even drops) or just the fact that 'slightly' in their launguage means +150% increase of a stat. But hey, not all people like have their own mind, some - just like you - prefer to take any piece of information given to them as truth.

All of this discussion started because you weren't able to understand that both PP and Dread had their arrow speeds buffed despite only Dread was mentioned in the patch notes and now, when you realize you were wrong, you simply state that "dread has a tiny tiny edge"(while still insulting).

LOL, like I need to validate myself to a few anons and you. And now, I show you the error of your ways.

Clearly the words "I just tested them both" don't register with you. It means I tested both bows and barely noticed a tiny difference between their respective projectile speeds. I actually never said that DE was correct in the update notes. I was originally insulting because the anon(s) LIED and accused me of not reading the updates. And now that I call them out apparantly I "can't accept that I was wrong?" I also used the word "supposedly" in my original comment, hinting at the possibility that *GASP* DE could have screwed up again, which at this point isn't surprising.

Honestly, this entire thread is entirely pointless now. It's not about Paris Prime vs Dread, is about incorrect Anons plus Azure against people who can read, test different weapons, and actually back up their stuff.

LOL, like I need to validate myself to a few anons and you. And now, I show you the error of your ways.

Clearly the words "I just tested them both" don't register with you. It means I tested both bows and barely noticed a tiny difference between their respective projectile speeds. I actually never said that DE was correct in the update notes. I was originally insulting because the anon(s) LIED and accused me of not reading the updates. And now that I call them out apparantly I "can't accept that I was wrong?" I also used the word "supposedly" in my original comment, hinting at the possibility that *GASP* DE could have screwed up again, which at this point isn't surprising.

Honestly, this entire thread is entirely pointless now. It's not about Paris Prime vs Dread, is about incorrect Anons plus Azure against people who can read, test different weapons, and actually back up their stuff.

Nobody accused you of not reading updates untill the guy from 131.156.137.37, but at that time you were all buthurt already. The lone tenno that stated you had reading problems(#47) was me, and I specified clearly that you have problems with reading through what I wrote - never mentioned the patch notes or other stuff. See the difference?

Does stating "just tested them both" mean that you commented twice on their arrow speed in favor of Dread without testing them? I registered it allright and that's how I saw it - even more so after noticing your "supposedly". You mentioned something that you made look like you weren't sure of and since in my opinion tiny(insignificant, not noticible) difference is no difference I corrected you(and soon you went raging)

And if it trully was me as the one who can't read and test weapons then the comments up to(and including) reply #39 would not be here. You were the ones throwing statements without testing both bows before you posted.

Just saw it. It's a good video, but I'm a Dread fanboy so I'll stick with that.

@ Azure Ryu

I don't feel like even scrounging through the trash you wrote so if you're going to bother with this pathetic internet argument, do it on my page. Don't block up this page with your hole-ridden arguments.

138.123.84.107 wrote:Based on this discussion both dread and paris need to be removed due to thier overpowered damage. Once you get one of these weapons the game will no longer be a challenge and therefore no fun.

Umm, bows have a slow rate of fire, require full charging to deal full damage, have travel time, and you can be left open if you miss. Bows are fun and actually somewhat challenging to use "correctly." If bows are subject for removal for overpowering damage, then so are a long long long list of other weapons. No thanks.

Once this event ends, I'll be changing Stormbringer to the event mod for the increased status chance, despite the 30% lower damage. I'd love to change Infected Clip to Malignant Force, but that's a /long/ ways away. ( More frequent AoE procs? Yes. All of the yes.)

While the damage for this setup is by no means maximized, it still does obscene amounts of damage anyways, and when the Gas or Electric procs it kills everything in the AoE along with the original target. It's also more designed for super long runs with minimal ammo drops. I could easily drop the Mutation for more damage if I wanted to, but it's really nice to never have to care about running out of arrows.

Still, I see consistent head-shots for 15k+, so I'm not complaining

I'm toying with the mod choices a bit as I go, and I'm looking to see how things change with a Hammer Shot in the mix instead of something else.

Having a both the Dread and the Paris Prime, I can say that I vastly prefer the Paris Prime. < All of the following is according to the in-game listings of the weapon with no mods attached > The primary damage type is more favorable, plus the extra 5% crit chance on the Dread is largely wasted (Since a maxed Point Strike still takes the same mod slot and there's no real benefit to my knowledge of having a crit chance higher than 100%) - after that you really gain no other benefits for using the Dread. {The base Crit Multiplier is the same, as is the Status chance. The overall damage calculations are both base 200 combined, and their charge time and accuracy are identical. }

Since they have good base proc chance of 20% now, it is Weaken VS Bleed.

Although Slash does less damage on armor, it has the super badass ARMOR INGORING status effect in the game which deals 245% more PURE damage. On 50+ level grineers, each tick ( there are total 7) of bleeding damage can be stronger than its original hit due to the damage reduction by armor.

In theory you are right, but even at 60 minutes of T3 survival paris prime can one shot heavy gunners with a corrosive build, without heavy caliber. Your build will never be used properly in the vast majority of even the endgame (and will be detrimental in many situations as well). Also, paris prime or dread with viral proc... just saying.

In theory you are right, but even at 60 minutes of T3 survival paris prime can one shot heavy gunners with a corrosive build, without heavy caliber. Your build will never be used properly in the vast majority of even the endgame (and will be detrimental in many situations as well). Also, paris prime or dread with viral proc... just saying.

Well you have to know some people's endgame is far longer than a 1h sur.

If your bulid can 1shot a lv 80 heavy gunner then mine wont take more than 2~3 shots (without proc) too. But with proc mine can fight stronger enemies, such as a lv100~150+ leader.

My build is just showing you guys how dread has the potential on killing super high armor enemies. I can say paris prime and dread have almost the same usage and result when fighting low-mid.

BTW with the new event mods, why not a corrosive and bloody, nearly 100% proc dread which is OP from lv1 to 100+?

Ok, according to Dor99's post Dread is only good for infested. The bow really takes the lead when it comes to shooting it right through a long line of enemies and that opportunity is found mostly in the void, epsecially t3 defense. The void consists of mainly Grineer and Corpus. Infested are most concentrated in derelict, but its too dark to use such a precise weapon and you're better off spraying and praying. So, I would say the Paris is much more practical.

theyre both almost the same: dread has 5% more crit chance but nobody rlly cares, so lets look at the damage type: paris P has puncture damage, so its only good when fighting grineer. dread deals slash damage, which deals great against infested and good(not very good) against grineer AND corpus. if you only fight grineer, you should take paris P, if you fight everything, you should get dread

I used both Paris Prime and Dread. They have both 200 base damage, so elemental damage scales are the same. Dread has great slash damage, but Paris Prime has great puncture damage. They are both good, but in different situations. I use Paris Prime, because I like golden parts of it)))

While they both have same base damage, Dread has higher "specialized" damage. Paris P sacrifices like 20(I think it was 20) puncture damage for the sake of slash damage.
Doesn't make much difference unmodded, but will make difference later.

i have been trying to figure out which one of these will work better in the void. my basis for success in the void is taking down the heavy gunners, they are (IMO) the toughest thing there to kill. so i decided to test both bows with identical mods on 30ish heavy gunners for each bow. i know it's not a deep pool of kills to draw numbers from, but i figured it was enough to get an idea of the damage range on both weapons.

the mods: serration, point strike, vital sense, hammer shot, cryo rounds, infected clip, speed trigger. for the last mod i used max rank sawtooth clip on the dread, and max rank piercing hit on the paris prime. all other mods are the exact same mod i used on the other bow for consistency sake.

the paris prime edged out the dread ever so slightly, by a few thousand dmg with a head shot. with nova's MP i was capable of getting a 60k crith with paris prime and a 57k crit with dread. the difference is not enough to say that should use one or the other. if you only have one of these bows they are comparable to each other and if you only have the dread, it will work just fine. it is splitting hairs, and the difference is not substantial enough to call one superior to the other.

the only thing that is a variable is the red crits. i feel (not fact, feel) the dread has a higher chance to show a red crit, compared to the paris prime. only sharing my perception on that because that makes a difference to some people.

i hope this helps anyone trying to figure out what to do with these bows :D

71.81.87.47 wrote:i have been trying to figure out which one of these will work better in the void. my basis for success in the void is taking down the heavy gunners, they are (IMO) the toughest thing there to kill. so i decided to test both bows with identical mods on 30ish heavy gunners for each bow. i know it's not a deep pool of kills to draw numbers from, but i figured it was enough to get an idea of the damage range on both weapons.

the mods: serration, point strike, vital sense, hammer shot, cryo rounds, infected clip, speed trigger. for the last mod i used max rank sawtooth clip on the dread, and max rank piercing hit on the paris prime. all other mods are the exact same mod i used on the other bow for consistency sake.

the paris prime edged out the dread ever so slightly, by a few thousand dmg with a head shot. with nova's MP i was capable of getting a 60k crith with paris prime and a 57k crit with dread. the difference is not enough to say that should use one or the other. if you only have one of these bows they are comparable to each other and if you only have the dread, it will work just fine. it is splitting hairs, and the difference is not substantial enough to call one superior to the other.

the only thing that is a variable is the red crits. i feel (not fact, feel) the dread has a higher chance to show a red crit, compared to the paris prime. only sharing my perception on that because that makes a difference to some people.

i hope this helps anyone trying to figure out what to do with these bows :D

Dread. When I see dread crit for over 180k and Paris Prime with 2 more forma barely pushing 50K against the enemies it is good against, I'll take dread any day. Paris Prime is garbage. Anyone who thinks otherwise is bad at this game and should quit playing.

Carbonate wrote:Dread is a poor man's bow, which is easy obtainable by killing Stalker, when Paris Prime is hidden in the void.

I'm afraid I have to disagree. A "poor man's bow" can't have some of the strongest single-shot damage in the game.

Dread and Paris Prime are both RNG related. Therefore they have varying degrees of difficulty in acquiring them, although Paris Prime was more difficult for me to get. They're both excellent weapons. No need to insult one weapon just because you don't like it.

I just dong get it...a webesite that breaks down the damage types by faction...and people are STILL posting the craziets things...Like The guy above who states Dread works great vs Grineer and void...and Paris Prime works great against infested...when Paris Prime does Puncture...which gives you bonus damage aginst Grineer...and the Heavy Gunners in the Void...and Dread gives bonus damage against infested...

Then you have the next guy two comments down who says Paris Prime is garbage..He obviously only does ODD...the Paris Prime is best bow for Void and Grineer...there is no debate...All you ahve to do is look at the freaking Damage 2.0 table..Plus put the exact same build on both weapons and do test runs on the highest level of each faction...Also, if you need a little help...you can go to warframe-builder.com

The IPS damage of weapons does not matter much, since most damage will come from elementals. As long as your combos are right, you can use either bow

216.67.44.132 wrote:Dread. When I see dread crit for over 180k and Paris Prime with 2 more forma barely pushing 50K against the enemies it is good against, I'll take dread any day. Paris Prime is garbage. Anyone who thinks otherwise is bad at this game and should quit playing.

Close this dumbass thread down please. These bows are damn near Identical, in practicality each bow is lethal against all factions, period there is no winner. (Although Dread Looks cooler and sounds cooler). Both bows will get the job done. That's all anyone needs.

73.183.255.46 wrote:Close this dumbass thread down please. These bows are damn near Identical, in practicality each bow is lethal against all factions, period there is no winner. (Although Dread Looks cooler and sounds cooler). Both bows will get the job done. That's all anyone needs.

Actually you are wrong...Each bow is unique in physical damage...if you go look at the DAMAGE 2.0 table you would clearly see that Paris Prime is better than Dread vs Grineer...and Dread is better than Paris Prime vs Infested. For corups it is debateable. In the Void the hardest enemy to take down is the Heavy Gunner....which makes Paris Prime best for Void.

Yes all bows are lethal against all factions...but at the same time there is a ceiling for each weapon...and Paris Prime out performs Dread when fighting High level Grineer and Late game content in the Void.

most of your damage will always be elemental, in any endgame situation. higher crit chance on dread (14~%) fully modded means more red crits. paris prime has a small damage bonus vs grineer. cernos is absolute shit vs all factions.

Voqualin wrote:This topic... again.. how about some actual numbers? These are from Mad5cout's damage calculator (version 3.1 at the time). Mobs are set at level 100, and each bow is using a crit build (Serration, Split Chamber, Piercing Hit, Vital Sense, Point Strike, Hammer Shot, Piercing Hit, Speed Trigger and Shred).

The average damage is a bit skewed towards Dread because of the light units within each faction.

Dread faction scores:

Grineer

Corpus

Infested

Average Damage

2985

5978

4835

Average DPS

2466.05

5600.44

4294.13

Paris Prime faction scores:

Grineer

Corpus

Infested

Average Damage

3051

4823

2808

Average DPS

2685.6

4507.09

2569.13

We can also take a look at some heavy units for a better idea of how they'll perform.

Heavy Gunner (Average DPS):

Bow

Head

Body

Dread

2590.19

1511.65

Paris Prime

3298.8

1820.02

Ancient Healer (Average DPS):

Bow

Lower Arm/Leg

Head

Body

Dread

3030.09

1661.52

830.76

Paris Prime

2387.23

3133.29

1566.65

Corpus Tech (Average DPS):

Bow

Head

Body

Dread

9695.16

1566.65

Paris Prime

7638.39

1954.03

So, yes Paris Prime will generally outdamage Dread.

Wait what, are you bad at math?

You just posted the numbers but you didn't actually average the damage, really?

Dread is good at Mid-teir to entry High-tier levels. Paris Prime is good at Late Void levels. While Slash is good for Flesh and bleed Proc, it becomes much less reliable when the enemies have high armor values and damage. That's where Paris Prime shine. The Dread won't be enough to stop Heavy Gunners and Corrupted MOAs while the Paris Prime can ignore their armor and reduce all of their damage to 70%. As for the increased chance of red Crits, they won't matter if the flesh is protected by layers of Ferrite or Non-Existant.

I find what a lot of people say about dread funny. With a crit build and barrel diffusion on, it one shots practically anything it hits. My dread currently is doing a maximum of 40k and averaging around 4-12k. It's all about experimentation.

74.105.173.69 wrote:I find what a lot of people say about dread funny. With a crit build and barrel diffusion on, it one shots practically anything it hits. My dread currently is doing a maximum of 40k and averaging around 4-12k. It's all about experimentation.

My Paris Prime does 15k average....and i constantly see numbers in the the 80k range...

Remember you get bonus numbers when using puncture weapons against grineer...that's why paris prime is supreme over dread..because of it's ability to take down heavy gunners faster in the towers over the dread.

They both are equal,most people say dread is op,but a few mods with paris prime wont make it better,both a almost insta kill in stealth,also useful in fighting(Thus ending the argument with NONE ARE BETTER .-.)Now go to sleep like I said nothing.

They are almost exactly equal in terms of damage. The very slight increase in reload speed for the Paris Prime is offset by the very slight increase in critical hit chance for Dread. So the only difference remaining in terms of damage is that Paris Prime deals primarily puncture damage and the Dread deals primarily slash damage. So it only depends on which faction you're facing. Even then it doesn't really matter because you can make up for the other factions with elemental mods. The only thing left remaining is how it looks and that is the only reason left for picking one over the other.

For me it depends on whether hitting a heavy grineer head counts as cloned flesh or ferrite/alloy. I don't know the answer to that question. But in one case the paris prime would be better and the other dread would be (for killing grineer anyhow).

To all above me argueing that 80puncture dmg deal 50% more to ferrite.. srsly... do u really think that 80 is gonna matter much while u have all other elementals? 90% mods and 60% mods? really? that 80? even if maxed serration and heavy cal.. still... that tiny bit of puncture.. more than corrosive? and other shits?

Since Serration and Heavy Caliber stack with Fanged Fusilade which pushes slash damage beyond 1200 alone and there is no equivalent puncture mod right now Dread at the moment is the better choice no matter how you look at it.

There is a little problem with the dread. I am playing in U.15.3.2. The MAX AMMO WAS REDUCED TO 30 EVERYONE IF YOU HEVE DREAD CHECK IT!!! :C Fortunately,my 5-Forma OP Paris Prime still has 72 Ammo. I know that bows do not really use that much ammo,but 30 is NOT ENOUGH for a T4 S/D. I always were on the Paris P side,but if DIGITAL EXTREMES WOULD NOT NERF EVERY GOOD WEAPON AND WARFRAME i woulda said Dread. Why? I think it looks better. Both are really good weapons.

This is as bad as the Ash vs Loki conundrum, you are trying to compare apples to oranges. The paris is built to work with puncture (meaning it works really well on grineer but not so much other fractions) The dread does Slash damage (meaning really good on infested not so much on other fractions) They are no where near comparable to each other.

Not really. At least Ash and Loki do two different things. In this case, they do the same exact thing, but with only slightly varying results. Dread has a better chance to red crit, and murders both infested and grineer with 3-4 corrosive projections (making it ideal in the Void as well), and Paris/P is better with most group setups because scrubs run Energy Siphon to Grineer/Void runs instead and Paris deals mostly puncture damage.

Paris's Puncture main is actually better in all cases - everything (EVERYTHING) at high levels (80+) has a considerable amount of armour, and under that both bows kill everything in 1 shot anyways. Now you may be going "Isn't that what Corrosive Projection is for?", but if you use Paris instead of Dread, you can ditch one or two Corrosive Projections and trade them for something like Rifle Amp to maximise damage, and anyways 3 of 4 people should have corrosive builds on at least 2 of their weapons. There's the other thing about the Dread's bonus 5% crit chance. WHOA 5% IS SO MUCH! In the end, when you do maybe 3 more crits out of 100 shots versus 27-54% increased damage, the Paris has more DPS. People can say it's "way harder to get than Dread for equal or lesser power", but really that makes sense, because for one of the best weapons in the game, it shouldn't be as easy to get as any other weapon. And you can get 10 Dreads quite easily. Then there's the thing about "Dread looks so much cooler!", well, the Dread is kinda tiny for a bow and it looks harmless compared to the humongous Paris Prime, plus the arrow tips on the Dread are fucking half circles. Fashion, right?

Anyways, after all the calculating and stuff, it seems like the Paris Prime would outperform the Dread. Took a bit to lay out all the facts, but that's good because the more you dig into something, the more people learn about it. Use the Paris Prime, it'll be worth it in the end.

That's why I said Corrosive Projection. And with four that entire defense type goes away, making nothing weak to puncture damage, and Moas/Nullifiers/Drone shields resistant. And nothing is better than having four CPs due to removing the expodential durability scaling of armor. And that 5% IS so much, that's 12.5% higher chance to red crit, bringing it to 25%, or doubling its chance to red crit over Paris/P. That's a pretty big deal.

Your other points are inaccurate or opinionated, I don't have a reason to respond to them, sorry.

KainDarkfire wrote:That's why I said Corrosive Projection. And with four that entire defense type goes away, making nothing weak to puncture damage, and Moas/Nullifiers/Drone shields resistant.

You completely ignored my section on replacing 1 or 2 of them with Rifle Amp. If you use corrosive damage (which you should), it can take just as much armour away. In endgame, everyone should be using puncture weapons / corrosive builds. You can then use 1 or 2 Rifle Amps, giving a 27-54% increase in damage, which definitely is worth more than 57% or whatever less armour.

KainDarkfire wrote:And that 5% IS so much, that's 12.5% higher chance to red crit, bringing it to 25%, or doubling its chance to red crit over Paris/P.

"Bringing it to 25%".
Paris Prime has 45% base crit.
2.5*45=112.5% (Max Point Strike)
Dread has 50% base crit.
2.5*50=125% (Max Point Strike)
That's only a 12.5% increase in crit, I have no idea where you got 25% from. 12.5% more red crits means only 11 more out of 100 shots. That may be twice more red crits than Paris Prime, but with only 25% red crits, that isn't a very large increase in overall DPS. I'd much rather have 54% increased damage on a Paris Prime than 12.5% more crits and 54% LESS damage on a Dread. And it's good that armour has more durability in higher levels, as all the procs from your and your team's weapons won't remove it all, meaning you'll do more overall damage. Once you do all the calculations, Paris Prime still outshines the Dread. The last two bits are just speculation, and most people not being archers and not knowing anything about bows in reality, that doesn't matter to those people, like you. But the acquisition part IS kinda true, if you've been playing long enough to care about these endgame weapons, you'll have Dread. There is not a single person who is going for endgame weapons who hasn't had a Dread blueprint. In the end, Paris Prime isn't that hard to grind, but still harder to get than Dread. The only reason for you not responding to them is the fact that you're afraid of me being right about more things, I know it can be embarrassing, but still. You can use the Dread all you want while me and everyone else who uses the Paris Prime will be going farther in T4s, I don't really care. I'm just here to let you know you could be doing a lot better.

You don't really understand where 25% came from? Do you not math? Or read? I said "And that 5% IS so much, that's 12.5% higher chance to red crit, bringing it to 25%, or 'doubling its chance to red crit over Paris/P'."

And no, if you're using bows, you don't want to have Rifle Amp to increase the damage by a pitiful amount so you can keep using Corrosive and hope for procs, you want to kill the thing in one shot for as long as possible, and Dread with Viral damage against Grineer with no armor will forever do more damage than Paris Prime with Corrosive and ~20.4% more damage from Rifle Amp (Even less if you're using Heavy Caliber) on Grineer with 40% of their armor. And that's why I ignored it. "Your other points are inaccurate or opinionated, I don't have a reason to respond to them, sorry."

"you want to kill the thing in one shot for as long as possible". Corrosive damage doesn't ONLY have a proc, it has the increased damage versus armour as well, all the same as the Viral damage versus Flesh. 54% damage isn't pitiful. If your Paris Prime did 1k damage per shot, that'd mean it would do 1.54k damage instead. That's a pretty big change in DPS.

"Dread has twice the red crit potential of Paris Prime." Dread has 125% crit chance with max Point Strike, meaning it has a 25% chance of red crits. Paris Prime has 112.5% crit chance with max Point Strike, meaning that's a 12.5% chance of red crits. When you compare the percents statistically, even though Dread has twice the chance to red crit compared to Paris Prime, it doesn't add up to THAT MUCH. And anyways, when you're doing more dps with that 54% more damage and 60% reduced armour, it won't make much of a difference.

"Do you not math? Or read?" You worded that statement very strangely, only now do I realise what you were trying to say, that Dread has 12.5% more crit chance and apparently that's a lot, and the fact that that brings the TOTAL red crit chance to 25%. I thought you meant 12.5%=25% and I was confused.

You do have a team, that doesn't account for much of anything if you're using a bow. What, you expect people to soften every heavy target on the field for you so you can finish them? I find it hard enough to believe that 4 people will be coordinated to use corrosive projection, much less run corrosive status weapons so the bow user can e-peen stroke. Oh, and by the way, even if they DID, guess what your best weapon would be again? If you said Dread because we're back in the same scenario, you'd be right.

Rifle Amp stacks ADDITIVELY with Serration, NOT MULTIPLICATIVELY, which is where the 20.4% damage increase from TWO Rifle Amps came from. Your Paris would go from 1k to 1204ish.

And yes, red crits are important when you're talking about high level endless mode enemies. Even more so if you can land Red Critical Headshots, which is triple your crit damage.

Not soften to finish them, but for eximus (the only things you don't have 100% chance to 1-shot at higher levels) a couple procs would help. And yeah, teams that will all use 4x Corrosive Projection is kinda hard to find.

I know. 54% of 1,000 is 540. 1,000+540=1.54k. And it isn't 20.4%, each Rifle Amp is worth 27%. 2 Rifle Amps would get you 54%, which is what you would earn from getting rid of 2 Corrosive Projections.

You mean you don't hit headshots for every single shot? It's a good habit to get into, really lets you be able to kill things without red crits. The only time red crits REALLY matter is with some eximus, and even then it'd take 2 shots with and without red crits for each bow at high levels, when you can't 1-shot them. And if you've built right, you'd have at least a little more fire rate on there.

You should just get Paris Prime, maybe potato it and forma it a little, then compare 2x Rifle Amp 2x Corrosive Projection Crit+Damage Corrosive Build Paris Prime to 4x Corrosive Projection Crit+Damage Vial Build Dread. See which one lasts longer, and actually try to kill everything as efficiently as possible (focus headshots) with the exact same team. I'd go ahead and do what I just said, the thing is I don't have any free weapon slots (Farming mastery food atm) or potatoes.

You already did. The 2 equasions I put above are the only ways I can think of "additively" and "multiplicatively". Instead of waiting for me to notice something that isn't there, tell me what you've been trying to say. Unless you don't know what you're talking about. Or stalling to look it up.

WHY IS THIS EVEN A THING?!?! Simply put going against grinner go with the paris, infested use dread. Paris=puncture=grineer, Cernos=impact=corpus, Dread=slash=infested. You can leave the math out its this easy. If you want to get into the whole adding viral and corrosive and all that then hopefully you are smart enough to figure the math out on your own. No weapon is better then the other, better used in different scenarios yes. Players are superior not weapons. Skill > dps.

Or not ignore everything that's being debated and get some real facts. "You can leave the math out" Are you serious? Warframe is ALL about math, given you DO have skill, it's NOT having skill where math becomes irrelevant because you do no damage.

My friend you are comparing apples to oranges as the saying goes. Each weapon offers a different type of damage. If you go all out with corrosive and viral slash will help you more otherwise puncture. What I mean is there really isn't a need to get into the math. One bow is slash, the other is puncture. To me (and yes I understand the math being used here) you are overcomplicating a simple issue of "Need more slash go Dread, Need more puncture go Paris." Beyond that its personal preference.

More like apples to apples of a different color, they do basically the same thing.

The game is still based around math though, so thinking that there is no need to run numbers is folly.

Don't just discount people that bother to sit down and take the time to run the numbers and come up with the answers for whatever reason you seem to harbor by saying that it doesn't matter, because obviously it does to enough other people to actually contribute to this topic, and others still to read it and understand how things work in the game.

I just see it as a matter of preference, I do not discredit the math being done by you and the other fellow people in this topic, Maybe its my own way of thinking, I don't see a reason to compare a weapon made for puncture to a weapon made for slash. So maybe you can explain it better to me. (all seriousness and respect) As you are not one of the few that are on here complaining about a buff or nerf or just in general I would never discount your ability.

Rabid is actually incorrect. Infested have such little health that they would be 1-shot by any bow in the game, and at higher levels they have armour so Puncture would be more effective. The only time the bows can actually be compared is T4S.

Oh, I complain about a lot of things about the game- don't get me wrong. Just know that removing armor from grineer removes that defense type completely, making them vulnerable only to slash/fire/viral. You can do this in with Corrosive Projection, Corrosive procs, or a combination of the two.

Oh, and from experience, infested enemies' health scales far harder than any other faction at higher levels. Which is kind of counter intuitive, because they're also not exactly weak to Viral either. (Chargers/runners are resistant, as well as all Leech eximus, who can get really bad on the health on top of their ~25% resist all buff.)

Everything has an armour rating, it scales with level. And the same thing, if you trade one or two Corrosive Projections for a Rifle Amp or something else useful, you can still get the bonus damage from puncture.

That 10% armor is a loss in dmg especially at a really long runs, you might as well remove that armor completely and use viral and slash, rather than the enemy getting 10% armor and using puncture + corrosive or puncture + radiation.

Plus doing puncture+corrosive makes you effective on the heavy gunners but not that effective on the alloyed targets, vice versa.

That 10% armor is a loss in dmg especially at a really long runs, you might as well remove that armor completely and use viral and slash, rather than the enemy getting 10% armor and using puncture + corrosive or puncture + radiation.

Plus doing puncture+corrosive makes you effective on the heavy gunners but not that effective on the alloyed targets, vice versa.

In the voids' case, you'd want the different weapon for either spamming down Nullifier's shield or able to take out the ancients (I'd prefer a melee for that one though), not just alternating between heavy gunners/butchers and bombards/lancers the whole time.

Well if anyone is still on this topic, Ash has polarity set to use steel charge/ rifle amp and I'm not going to change just for corrosive projection as I melee alot to build up the combo counter for use with bladestorm. Which bow would end up better to use Dread or Paris prime?

Considering you're likely to be in a group of randoms, I'd assume Paris Prime if anything. But if you're meleeing a lot, why not a nice shotgun like the Hek to fill in your powerful shooty mcbang needs? You can still feel like a 'ninja' by running hikou or despairs, I promise.

Well come to find out Seeking Shuriken can work like corrosive projection with just an addition of 48% strength is supposedly enough to strip the armor completely. So I thinking dread with heat and viral maybe? I don't know i pefer the like of the grinlok and the bows.

If you are going to use a bow use dread, the bonus to crit is just barely enough to push it ahead in damage against grinner and slash is better than punture against both courpus and infested, but unless you are consistantly getting headshots and/or hitting multiple targets other weapons will have a better damage output.

I beg to differ, I've been using both with different set-ups during T4s and found prime does better even when +4 cp is going. So even if the numbers state otherwise, experience tells me PP is the better of the two but its a matter of opinion

If team has 4x corrosive projection then dread wins hands down. But if it's just a pug with random auras then I think paris is best. Arguement comes down to puncture vs slash. Majority of the real problem enemies are the heavies like bombards and gunners which are priority targets imo b/c they are ranged (and hit hella hard). Melee mobs like ancients are easier to avoid/cc in general + do not come in large packs like the heavies do. So if you pug, I think paris is best for anything past lvl 60 (unless infested). If it's under that level then it really does not matter which one you pick, either one is awesome and will wreck stuff.

Dor99alon wrote:Despite the precious poster being confused by old and outdated information that was posted in the wiki (there is no such thing as "armor ignore" in the game) I second his recommendation for Paris Prime for most cases.

Paris prime does "Physics Impact Damage" which was confused in the past as "armor ignore": "they [enemies] will always receive the source weapon's calculated base damage, unmodified by armor."

This refers to body part armor and not enemy armor as you can see further in that page that some grineer mobs still has armor calculations.

Con: Does "Blade Damage" which is considered weak when fighting high level mobs (with the exception of infested chargers and crawlers).

If you are looking for critical build than you should go with the dread though.

Sorry, but I just want to say that there is armor ignor and it is possible. Now dont get me wrong i didnt say the weapon has it. you said that there was no such thing as armor ignor. Sadly the only thing that ignors armor isnt a weapon, its ash. His final move and stealth attacks from behind are the only abilities in this game that ignores armor.

not related to that, The dread is amazing agianst infeasted and decient against corpus and the PP is which i better by far against grineer. but i dont believe it matters against corpus as much. Now that last sentence is not one to take seriously due to that i almost never use a bow and mostly just the Boar Prime. Now to prove im not a noob I have played my fair share of the game with 600 in game hours and mastery 14. Im on PS4 so the steam hours you look at are the hours you have the game open. My hours are in game running around on planets. And crit build is hella strong with dread.

RabidScholar wrote:I beg to differ, I've been using both with different set-ups during T4s and found prime does better even when +4 cp is going. So even if the numbers state otherwise, experience tells me PP is the better of the two but its a matter of opinion

Sorry, i should have explained further, the Paris Prime will do more damage on a regular shot but the dread will red crit twice as offten (25% vs 12.5%) giving it a higher average damage, but even then the dammage difference is only 2k after faction ajustments for both the per shot damage and the average damage, not a whole lot. The reason that you dont notice a difference with cc is that even though they have 0 armor and their health bar turns red they still have the damage type resistance given by their armor, otherwise your damage would drop severly as the 50% for punture and 75% for corosive/radiation damage bonuses would be lost.

Sorry, but I just want to say that there is armor ignor and it is possible. Now dont get me wrong i didnt say the weapon has it. you said that there was no such thing as armor ignor. Sadly the only thing that ignors armor isnt a weapon, its ash. His final move and stealth attacks from behind are the only abilities in this game that ignores armor.

not related to that, The dread is amazing agianst infeasted and decient against corpus and the PP is which i better by far against grineer. but i dont believe it matters against corpus as much. Now that last sentence is not one to take seriously due to that i almost never use a bow and mostly just the Boar Prime. Now to prove im not a noob I have played my fair share of the game with 600 in game hours and mastery 14. Im on PS4 so the steam hours you look at are the hours you have the game open. My hours are in game running around on planets. And crit build is hella strong with dread.

His information is outdated, the bows now have the same base and crit multiplier damage AND those damage types and their asociated bonuses no longer exist.

Did bunch of t1s solo with both bows to compare. Loki Prime modded for duration stealth + energy siphon. Mods on bows are 4 forma'd with max mods of: serration, vital sense, point strike, fanged fusillade (dread)/heavy calibre (paris), infected clip, stormbringer, split chamber, and speed trigger (cant live w/o this one). At the 50 min mark, dread was taking 5+ headshots to down a gunner...the slash dot at that point didn't do much. I had to extract at 55 b/c I ran out of arrows/LS. The paris started to tapper off drastically at 60 mins but it was still capable of killing gunners with 3 or so head shots. With a dream team with 4 CP, I would certainly go dread without hesitation but solo...it all depends I suppose. Anyways, I like dread best despite this just because it has no gold bling on it. Ha!

184.66.7.62 wrote:Did bunch of t1s solo with both bows to compare. Loki Prime modded for duration stealth + energy siphon. Mods on bows are 4 forma'd with max mods of: serration, vital sense, point strike, fanged fusillade (dread)/heavy calibre (paris), infected clip, stormbringer, split chamber, and speed trigger (cant live w/o this one). At the 50 min mark, dread was taking 5+ headshots to down a gunner...the slash dot at that point didn't do much. I had to extract at 55 b/c I ran out of arrows/LS. The paris started to tapper off drastically at 60 mins but it was still capable of killing gunners with 3 or so head shots. With a dream team with 4 CP, I would certainly go dread without hesitation but solo...it all depends I suppose. Anyways, I like dread best despite this just because it has no gold bling on it. Ha!

LMAO i feel you on the gold bling, I also realized i was lacking with my aim as red crits come from hitting the weak points(?) so ill be off to try some more testing. Put some light/ neutral colors on prime makes is look a hell of alot better, but I hate gold period they should give an option to switch gold to silver.

Dor99alon wrote:Despite the precious poster being confused by old and outdated information that was posted in the wiki (there is no such thing as "armor ignore" in the game) I second his recommendation for Paris Prime for most cases.

Paris prime does "Physics Impact Damage" which was confused in the past as "armor ignore": "they [enemies] will always receive the source weapon's calculated base damage, unmodified by armor."

This refers to body part armor and not enemy armor as you can see further in that page that some grineer mobs still has armor calculations.

Con: Does "Blade Damage" which is considered weak when fighting high level mobs (with the exception of infested chargers and crawlers).

If you are looking for critical build than you should go with the dread though.

Sorry, but I just want to say that there is armor ignor and it is possible. Now dont get me wrong i didnt say the weapon has it. you said that there was no such thing as armor ignor. Sadly the only thing that ignors armor isnt a weapon, its ash. His final move and stealth attacks from behind are the only abilities in this game that ignores armor.

not related to that, The dread is amazing agianst infeasted and decient against corpus and the PP is which i better by far against grineer. but i dont believe it matters against corpus as much. Now that last sentence is not one to take seriously due to that i almost never use a bow and mostly just the Boar Prime. Now to prove im not a noob I have played my fair share of the game with 600 in game hours and mastery 14. Im on PS4 so the steam hours you look at are the hours you have the game open. My hours are in game running around on planets. And crit build is hella strong with dread.

Just to point out that is outdated info from 2 years ago, I don't know if it is necessarily different but Dread in my honest opinion is an amazing weapon.

what does Higher base damage have to do with elemental damage? I could have no element at all on Paris and still do very good damage. Dread High crit or not just seem more of a certain circumstance weapon. Plus I really hate cookie-cutter squad builds on anything people should just play how they enjoy the game and stop worrying about squeezing dps out of a weapon. It really isn't that big of a deal I can go in a T4 with a grinlok and easily keep up with a PP user or dread user.

True, or the Hek. Or Tiberon, or any number of other weapons. Solo i might add. Haha I would think that ALL THREE Bows have insane potential, yet everyone ignores the third counterpart. Cernos is no pushover, yet is largely ignored due to it's damage type. Seems a waste of a good bow.

RabidScholar wrote:what does Higher base damage have to do with elemental damage? I could have no element at all on Paris and still do very good damage. Dread High crit or not just seem more of a certain circumstance weapon. Plus I really hate cookie-cutter squad builds on anything people should just play how they enjoy the game and stop worrying about squeezing dps out of a weapon. It really isn't that big of a deal I can go in a T4 with a grinlok and easily keep up with a PP user or dread user.

184.66.7.62 wrote:Did bunch of t1s solo with both bows to compare. Loki Prime modded for duration stealth + energy siphon. Mods on bows are 4 forma'd with max mods of: serration, vital sense, point strike, fanged fusillade (dread)/heavy calibre (paris), infected clip, stormbringer, split chamber, and speed trigger (cant live w/o this one). At the 50 min mark, dread was taking 5+ headshots to down a gunner...the slash dot at that point didn't do much. I had to extract at 55 b/c I ran out of arrows/LS. The paris started to tapper off drastically at 60 mins but it was still capable of killing gunners with 3 or so head shots. With a dream team with 4 CP, I would certainly go dread without hesitation but solo...it all depends I suppose. Anyways, I like dread best despite this just because it has no gold bling on it. Ha!

Your test was wrong, you modded Paris Prime with Healy Call and Dread with Fanged, Healy Call is miles better so of course Paris Prime did better.

even though they have 0 armor and their health bar turns red they still have the damage type resistance given by their armor, otherwise your damage would drop severly as the 50% for punture and 75% for corosive/radiation damage bonuses would be lost.

Pretty sure they lose the defense type completely, leading to the damage loss on corrosive when it procs the 4th time.

They do, once the bar becomes red the damage for puncture does drop and slash with viral become more viable. Dread will do better with a +4 CP then Paris. For me its not about damage I just like the way Paris Prime "feels" Dread is not a bad bow either. Since I've been using both its almost feels like the Loki, Ash debate. Both are great but each one shines in different ways

Hum, I don't know about these feels you have, having used and forma'd both bows *4 they were pretty much the same weapon outside of sound effects and damage priorities to me.

That other debate is pretty dumb as well, as they both have full access to all of their skills now, it's no longer a simple stealth v stealth matchup, but a trickster/disabler v assassin match, which makes them not competitive at all.

KainDarkfire wrote:Hum, I don't know about these feels you have, having used and forma'd both bows *4 they were pretty much the same weapon outside of sound effects and damage priorities to me.

That other debate is pretty dumb as well, as they both have full access to all of their skills now, it's no longer a simple stealth v stealth matchup, but a trickster/disabler v assassin match, which makes them not competitive at all.

Heard the saying "2 kinds of people"? It is more true then people realize. On one hand you have those people that like algebra, these people are good with numbers, most only find reasoning behind logic and factual information essentially a "realist". On the other hand you have those people who are good with geomerty, these people go by imagination, intrigued by theory and usually go by a gut instict. "dreamer". This information is all simplified so don't take it to heart. To me real life or video games everything has a "feel" but i will not discredit those others that do the insane dps math.

Heard the saying "2 kinds of people"? It is more true then people realize. On one hand you have those people that like algebra, these people are good with numbers, most only find reasoning behind logic and factual information essentially a "realist". On the other hand you have those people who are good with geomerty, these people go by imagination, intrigued by theory and usually go by a gut instict. "dreamer". This information is all simplified so don't take it to heart. To me real life or video games everything has a "feel" but i will not discredit those others that do the insane dps math.

So basically, you don't have any idea to what this 'feel' could be related to.

Basically, It's like a can pull off a long distance shot with heavy caliber on by knowing where to adjust in a split second, quickness in the draw (Paris is faster correct?) Same thing goes with the Grinlok I can keep going 90+ in a T4S because to me its not just about Dps I also make full use of every weapon I carry, and no I'm not spamming 4 (yet).

199.255.184.56 wrote:The guy who made this guide is an idiot, even though his damage is from 2.0, i SINCERLY hope that he did not put piercing hit on a dread and expect it to be comparable to a paris p.

I prefer the Dread and I think it's better and doesn't sound fucking retarded when I fire it, unlike my Paris P which does great damage, but sounds like a loogie and a thud.

This is a moot point anyway, and if you think otherwise, you can suck on my Synoid Gammacor and it's over 5k/sec damage with potato and no forma.

and a Rhino Prime, and a Boltor Prime, yadda, yadda, yadda. I could care less about the synoid. Personally I prefer to kill enemies before they get in my face. Telos Akbolto can do up to 60K burst according to Warframe Builder, plus the Proc is great on Ash as I have him with on vitality and the stamina boost does well for the melee. Also if you are going to respond in a discussion try NOT to act like your still in preschool.

a Rhino Prime, and a Boltor Prime, yadda, yadda, yadda. I could care less about the synoid. Personally I prefer to kill enemies before they get in my face. Telos Akbolto can do up to 60K burst according to Warframe Builder, plus the Proc is great on Ash as I have him with on vitality and the stamina boost does well for the melee. Also if you are going to respond in a discussion try NOT to act like your still in preschool.

The akboltos are VERY good weapons, or they would be if they were automatic, the problem with them is that to get that super high damage you have to raise the fireing speed to 20+ shots/sec, the problem with this is that you won't be able to click the mouse that fast, so yes, on PAPER the telos Akbolto is amazing but the gameplay is different and unless you think you can click the mouns 20+ times every second you are losing a LOT of dsp

PureXXX wrote:even though they have 0 armor and their health bar turns red they still have the damage type resistance given by their armor, otherwise your damage would drop severly as the 50% for punture and 75% for corosive/radiation damage bonuses would be lost.

Pretty sure they lose the defense type completely, leading to the damage loss on corrosive when it procs the 4th time.

You missunderstand how how the corosive proc works, it drop their armor by 25% of their CURENT armor, not total, so is somebody had 100 armor, they would lose 25 (100 X 0.75 =75) the socond proc they would lose 18.75 (75 X 0.75=56.25), then they lose 14.25 (56.25 X 0.75~42). the amount of armor you remove with each proc gets smaller every time you proc. it takes 8.366239421......(logX)+1 (where X is the value of the enemy armor) to reduce their armor value to 0

and you might be right about them losing the type, i haven't tried to see the damage difference... They always die to fast......

a Rhino Prime, and a Boltor Prime, yadda, yadda, yadda. I could care less about the synoid. Personally I prefer to kill enemies before they get in my face. Telos Akbolto can do up to 60K burst according to Warframe Builder, plus the Proc is great on Ash as I have him with on vitality and the stamina boost does well for the melee. Also if you are going to respond in a discussion try NOT to act like your still in preschool.

The akboltos are VERY good weapons, or they would be if they were automatic, the problem with them is that to get that super high damage you have to raise the fireing speed to 20+ shots/sec, the problem with this is that you won't be able to click the mouse that fast, so yes, on PAPER the telos Akbolto is amazing but the gameplay is different and unless you think you can click the mouns 20+ times every second you are losing a LOT of dsp

Fire Rate mods I am very iffy about. But the issue you bring out is easily taken care of by using you mouses scroll wheel or making a quick macro and removing any delay. But I'm not really worried about High dps anyway. I use them because of Truth proc and they are silent.

PureXXX wrote:even though they have 0 armor and their health bar turns red they still have the damage type resistance given by their armor, otherwise your damage would drop severly as the 50% for punture and 75% for corosive/radiation damage bonuses would be lost.

Pretty sure they lose the defense type completely, leading to the damage loss on corrosive when it procs the 4th time.

You missunderstand how how the corosive proc works, it drop their armor by 25% of their CURENT armor, not total, so is somebody had 100 armor, they would lose 25 (100 X 0.75 =75) the socond proc they would lose 18.75 (75 X 0.75=56.25), then they lose 14.25 (56.25 X 0.75~42). the amount of armor you remove with each proc gets smaller every time you proc. it takes 8.366239421......(logX)+1 (where X is the value of the enemy armor) to reduce their armor value to 0

and you might be right about them losing the type, i haven't tried to see the damage difference... They always die to fast......*too fast*

No friend he fully understands. You are mistaking Corrosive Projection to work like a corrosive proc and this isn't the case. It simply removes it completely unlike a corrosive proc which works as you have explained. Even on the Corrosive Projection Projection page its says "When stacked to 100%, the yellow hit point bars for armored enemies will turn red, showing they have no armor left, similar to what might happen after multiple[1]Corrosive procs." It's simply removed no math needs to be involved.

PureXXX wrote:even though they have 0 armor and their health bar turns red they still have the damage type resistance given by their armor, otherwise your damage would drop severly as the 50% for punture and 75% for corosive/radiation damage bonuses would be lost.

Pretty sure they lose the defense type completely, leading to the damage loss on corrosive when it procs the 4th time.

You missunderstand how how the corosive proc works, it drop their armor by 25% of their CURENT armor, not total, so is somebody had 100 armor, they would lose 25 (100 X 0.75 =75) the socond proc they would lose 18.75 (75 X 0.75=56.25), then they lose 14.25 (56.25 X 0.75~42). the amount of armor you remove with each proc gets smaller every time you proc. it takes 8.366239421......(logX)+1 (where X is the value of the enemy armor) to reduce their armor value to 0

and you might be right about them losing the type, i haven't tried to see the damage difference... They always die to fast......*too fast*

No friend he fully understands. You are mistaking Corrosive Projection to work like a corrosive proc and this isn't the case. It simply removes it completely unlike a corrosive proc which works as you have explained. Even on the Corrosive Projection Projection page its says "When stacked to 100%, the yellow hit point bars for armored enemies will turn red, showing they have no armor left, similar to what might happen after multiple[1]Corrosive procs." It's simply removed no math needs to be involved.

We WERE talking about the corosive Proc NOT corosive projection, that is why he said "when it PROCS the 4th time). nobody was talking about the corosive projection aura.

I will admit I didn't know about the proc when we were talking about the proc, mostly because, as you said, they always die too fast. But much of this discussion has centered around Projection, so it's an understandable mistake.

Shonoun wrote:There's the other thing about the Dread's bonus 5% crit chance. WHOA 5% IS SO MUCH!

When it comes to Red Crits, then that can make all the difference, especially when that gap of 5% then stretches to a 12.5% at max crit. That's a huge difference that you seemed to neglect.

Literally this entire discussion has pointed out the fact that Paris = Grineer and Dread = Infested multiple times. The "armor at high levels" is circumstancial and if you ONLY farm high levels, then go for a Paris, sure. Currently, the only way to do that is the Raid that's out. That being said, you can get to those high levels by surviving and defending, but you gotta work your way past the lower ones first right? Circumstancial.

Moving forward, the Corrosive Projection is also circumstancial. While it would heavily affect the scales in Dread's favor, it's not something that can be counted on occurring all the time and is a constantly changing variable. You're more likely to have one at best if you, yourself, are running it, but otherwise you're looking at a nice fat 0 CP's. People are going to run ES mostly, unless they have a specific build. You can actually coordinate a group, but then that's fixing the odds in your favor.

Back to the crits part, there's the aspect of Dread doing more damage output with the crits. With a lead of 12.5% on crits, it has a better chance of outdamaging enemies where the Paris cannot. The Paris can only hope to find it's way against armored targets and dish the pain on them. The crits are random, but don't care what it hits to do extra damage. Paris needs to focus on armored targets to take it's benefits to outclass the Dread. Going further on this, the armored targets are not going to be the only target you find in more normal missions. You're likely to see a few of them, but I'd wager less than half, if even. The Dread will clean up most of those that are not armored or Grineer, which is most likely the majority.

Looking at the enemy pools, if you're seriously debating on the damage and calculations, you're either a tryhard, a hipster, or legitimately looking to do the most damage out of a weapon for a specific reason. If we were to say you had a specific reason, you're looking to do damage in the Void or OD's, because Dread and Paris will literally clean up anywhere when equipped to the max. Void and OD missions have more Infested in there than anything else, so Dread takes the win. OD will have a nice mix of Infested and Corrupted, so Dread has a slight advantage on that mark.

In this case, it's not so much a "well this does good against this", than a versatile damage output vs armored target damage output. This is what I'm seeing with my experience. I may not have a Paris, and I don't care what does more damage or what's better. I own a Dread, and if the Dread does less, then I couldn't give a rat's ass. It kills shit, and that's all I need. If I ever have trouble, then switch to Despair. Using a bow as your primary is one of the most retarded thing I've heard of unless you're looking to get a nice first hit on something in the far distance then engage with a melee or sidearm.

I've given my thoughts, opinion, and experiences in this post, and I honestly believe that by doing so, I've subjected myself to incessant babbling about how I'm wrong. There is no "better", they do what they do in whatever situation they do best in. They have a variable stat that now makes things too different. If this was Damage 1.0, then the answer would be 100% clear.

TL;DR- You're LITERALLY COMPARING SLASH VS PUNCTURE. That's it. Great job. I hope you've figured out what damage type is best out of the two so I can farm EVERYTHING with it!

just one thing:if you go fast runs on 30-40 min,no matter what you use paris or dread,mobs anyway are weak,if you go more all team will take corrosive aura, so i can not imagine a situation where i can need use paris,sad but true.

Well, it does matter somewhat, at least at higher levels when you're trying to keep oneshotting things. In that case, Slash damage is good against Cloned Flesh- the only defense type remaining for Grineer. And in the Void, the only defense type that isn't weak against Slash is shield.

In the end, even with crits, the PP and Dread are quite even. Both of them do quite some damage to all factions, although they have a different damage type. Also those little minor differences shouldnt help you choosing PP or Dread. I'd all come to preference (and by that I only mean the look of it). I use the Dread because I like the look of those round arrowpoints and it would be awesome if them would make it partly gold (like a Dread Prime version :D).

I dont think it's better using the Dread because when I used the PP I never felt a real difference when making crits on both. As long as I would reach 100% crit, I would kill them in 1 hit (sometimes 2 with both on high levels).

PS. my highest crit ever was over 100K with the Dread with a Nova ult on an infested.

Just saying but high end damage, the Dread's slash proc is so much better than the Paris' puncture proc. If we're talking about damage, you'll see higher numbers from the Paris, generally, but the dread does more damage total due to slash procs. So whilst you can say you see higher numbers with the Paris, damage wise, the Dread actually wins high level.

TL;DR Paris shows higher numbers, Dread does more damage total due to slash proc.

You're more likely to trigger your elemental proc unless you run Buzz Kill. Either way, Paris still won't do more damage than Dread period, as with four CP it has nothing it's good against outside of Corpus machines, and until there are beefier versions of those like the Bursas, then it's prety moot.

82.18.232.203 wrote:Just saying but high end damage, the Dread's slash proc is so much better than the Paris' puncture proc. If we're talking about damage, you'll see higher numbers from the Paris, generally, but the dread does more damage total due to slash procs. So whilst you can say you see higher numbers with the Paris, damage wise, the Dread actually wins high level.

TL;DR Paris shows higher numbers, Dread does more damage total due to slash proc.

Even without the slash Proc Dread will average a higher dps, even against armor, but if raid is the new endgame and 4CP being relitivly normal the dread is hands down the better weapon. And considering that you will have about a12.33% chance or less to proc slash(unless you are using status mods) you will not be seeing it very offten.

My quickbow build Dread kills everything in one shot in the raid with the four CP, so we need a better test for Dread's full damage potential, perhaps the Nightmare version will give us a better sample.

Because a Corrosive Speed Trigger+Vile Acceleration still does too much damage for level 80s, even though the Corrosive part is pointless.

Status weapon? If you want status utility stick with Boar Prime. If you wanted long range kill strength, pretty much any other bow does it better, even Cernos. Even with the touted longer range (which is just a product of better projectile speed) you'd be better off with other bows.

This stupid thread is still not closed? Can't we all agree that Dread is better if the whole team runs CP or you go up against Infested, and Paris is better for any other time? Let this stupid discussion die already ffs...

Lazarus93 wrote:This stupid thread is still not closed? Can't we all agree that Dread is better if the whole team runs CP or you go up against Infested, and Paris is better for any other time? Let this stupid discussion die already ffs...

Thats not really true because slash is better vs shields and if you want it to die so badly why did you come and coment?