Looking at adding something extra to my bike touring capacity. One option is to buy a fat bike (and be desert sand savvy). The other is to buy a recumbent (probably trike). Probably have a real use for the fat bike once a year and the trike every fortnight, so at the moment a recumbent is looking pretty good. As you can probably guess, I have zero experience with either recumbents or trikes.

All the good rides in my area have mountains which tend to make you feel every gram of touring gear onboard. I figure a trike will help lessen the load (or at least make it less of a sweat).

Things that concern me/to avoid about a trike:1. Having two wheels at the back so you get a face full of what ever the front one throws up at you (also planning to have the option of towing my extrawheel trailer, so a single rear wheel is really what I am looking at) .2. Having to micromanage every rut and bump on the road since you can't use your legs as suspension3. Safety issues eg : Taking up a wider slot of the road or not having the better turning response to a hazard a two wheel offers. Also the danger of not being so visible due to low position (planning on mounting some 1.5 metre balinese flags to add a "here I am" factor) 4.Low ground clearance ( is the low point on many trikes somewhere between the front and back wheels? - so you are likely to bottom out on a speed bump ?- or is more closer to the wheel/s? - so that whatever the wheel is clearing, there is a good chance the bike will clear unless you chance on some derailleur smashing rock or log that MTB'ers are similarly wary of)?

what looks good in a design1. carrying luggage space (preferably with regular panniers bags - I already have some great ortielbs - I usually tour with between two and four panniers depending on circumstance) I could go with a simple two bag pannier carrying option since I could tag along the extrawheel cargo trailer to bring the other two as the need arises) . Whatever the case, a strong pannier rack is definitely on the cards2. good low maintenance seat (the mesh one's look good since they are ventilated and seem to offer an element of suspension)3. avoiding disc brakes would be good since they can be a bit high maintenance (although I would be willing to go for disc brakes if it was part of a model that was perfect in some other aspect) 4. In two minds about whether suspension would be a good idea (smooth out the bumps) or a bad idea (add yet another thing that could potentially go wrong). However I am pretty much convinced that coil suspension is the only sort of suspension for long distance touring - running into trouble with air suspension and no bike shop for 500 km is simply not worth it5. Seen some models that can take either a 700 or a 20/26 rear wheel (I like the idea of having a speedy option for short two day tours and an endurance option with three uniform wheels... avoiding the necessity of carrying extra repair/replacement gear for the different wheel sizes). Not a must for the final choice but I like it6. Dynamo hub on one of the wheels is not a must but sounds good (for the purpose of powering front and rear lights)7. I imagine it would mostly see use on sealed roads, but having some sort of off-road capacity, eg: dirt road, would add to the fun

I am about 180cm and 80kg.Price wise, I am willing to go around $4000, but anything over $3000 has me thinking whether it is really worth it.

Having said all this, if you think there is a good reason for ignoring/adding something to my design "for's" and "against's", please feel free to chime in.

Here are some models (mostly just one type of model per brand) I have been thinking about (mostly using flyingfurniture website because they have all the specs easily accessible ... may actually make purchase at http://www.recumbent.net.au/ in sydney or epic cycles in brisbane ... just in case anyone thinks I am spamming the innocent public ) :

con's- only takes a single pannier rack (and not the strongest sort, even if you opt for the special one ..... (not sure if rear pannier racks are pretty much generic on recumbents or if there a host of different racks for every brand)

Ice Adventure? Regardless if you are going to be carrying more than 25kg of weight you will require a trailer. Racks typically rated to that.Mudguards, Rear Rack are pricey optionsDo not buy a trailer from FlyingFurniture. They are cheaper direct from radical design.Suspension is damn nice to get, I'm glad FF screwed up on me so I did get full suspension My Ice Adventure FS HD runs off elastometers. Pretty ditto to go wrong with them. Dynamo for front light going to add another another $300 or so to price. Require disc brakes for the Son dynamo hub for trikes and is for the right wheel only. Would be worth a trip to FF to have a good look and compare the HP Velo to the Ice Adventure/Sprint to the Greenspeed Magnum.Performer JC20 my opinion I tried and wasn't impressed.

FYI my Ice Adventure I get my camping gear, and my clothing with a bit of food on no problem. It is rated to 25kg then need the trailer

Baalzamon wrote:Ice Adventure? Regardless if you are going to be carrying more than 25kg of weight you will require a trailer. Racks typically rated to that.

some of the racks on FF are rated to 30kg - Probably won't be going over 25 but I figure the more weight they can handle, the less likely they are to break. Anyways if extra luggage is a non-issue I guess we can scrub it as a pro

... although even having extra real estate to play with is an attractive option eg Not making my rear and front pannier ortliebs redundant is always a plus(not sure exactly how the front ones are hooked up there ... or even how much clearance they have) )

Mudguards, Rear Rack are pricey options

hoping to avoid mudguards if possible - just another thing to lose a screw and clatter around - from the look s of it, they won't keep anything off the drive train anyways. I notice FF has prices for mudguard etc group sets and drive train guard protection etc group sets.

Do not buy a trailer from FlyingFurniture. They are cheaper direct from radical design.

already have an extra wheel pannier trailer (basically just a pannier rack on a wheel) and bags for it. Hoping to stick with that.

Suspension is damn nice to get, I'm glad FF screwed up on me so I did get full suspension My Ice Adventure FS HD runs off elastometers. Pretty ditto to go wrong with them.

If something did go wrong with them and they went flaccid, would your trike still be ride-able?

Dynamo for front light going to add another another $300 or so to price. Require disc brakes for the Son dynamo hub for trikes and is for the right wheel only.

Yeah I forgot all about that - I already have a dynamo hub on my extra wheel trailer - I guess I wanted to go for two so I could keep the lights going and recharge stuff at the same time.

Would be worth a trip to FF to have a good look and compare the HP Velo to the Ice Adventure/Sprint to the Greenspeed Magnum.Performer JC20 my opinion I tried and wasn't impressed.

I live two states away - the plan would be to iron out whatever specs I wanted and catch a plane to pick it up then ride it home (in time for work)

The plus of the magnum is its weight capacity - thinking I might be able to squish in extra luggage (ie water for long dry hauls)

FYI my Ice Adventure I get my camping gear, and my clothing with a bit of food on no problem. It is rated to 25kg then need the trailer

so that's two panniers and a little something tied to the top?I read a few of your other posts about your trike adventures - I recall you made mention that it wasn't the best thing to ride to work (car problems maybe?) so I take it you mean it comes in to its own when its a bit out of the urban stretch ... you mention somewhere about some plastic coming off the seat or something (and this caused a problem with seat adjustment .... which you solved by jury rigging some solution - details escape me now).. Any fault/wear and tear that seems to arise from use/design that makes you pause for thought?

EDIT - I mixed up your name with other blogs and stuff on trikes I was reading - It was a QR skewer that you got replaced - I think its time to stop surfing the net looking for stuff on recumbents and take a nap.-yawn-

The ICE FS (Full suspension) trike use elastomers......so not sure how they could fail apart from physically removing the elastomer......

There is not much that can go wrong.....

I have an ICE Vortex FS and it's brilliant, I used to own a Greenspeed GT5 and it's chalk & cheese.......The FS ICE trikes win hands down compare to my old GT5 - no contest......

To put it into perspective, coarse chip on a GT5 trike killed a decent LED lamp in just 40 minutes - the high frequency vibration was that bad.......the replacement lamp is still going strong 4000km later on my FS Vortex.

Hydraulic disc brakes are brilliant, where does this idea of hydraulic disc brakes being unreliable come from ? I have them on my MTB and had them on 2 trikes and faultless......low maintenance - just inspect every 500km when I turn my tyres and wipe off some dust and check the pad thickness....... And powerful enough to lift the rear wheel during emergency stops !!

Hydro brakes vs drum brakesScenario doing 25kphPhil in his vortex + with hydraulic discsMe in my adventure with drum brakesWe both brake at the same time. Phil came to a dead stop in less than a metre, took me 5m to come to a stopChain tubes are brilliant Sure noisy but keep the chain clean. Cycled yesterday and I brushed all the sand off my bike when I got home. Do you think the chain had any on it? The chain tube stopped past where the rear mudguard dumped all the sand so protected it.Just remember as well trikes have a weight limit.So figure 80kg in your body weight, few kg in waterYou will be upto over 95kg easily imo depending on your camping equipment etc

Shame you can't get a Stein trike over here.... I would have jumped at one of those

Just thought I'd chime in too.I have a LogoTrike. Very nice. Pity Martin is taking a sabbatical from trike building.My experience is the disk brakes are great and have given no trouble in thousands of km.

Mudguards are pretty much essential in the wet or you will get covered in muck. Look where the front wheels are in relation to you. we, my wife and I have never had a problem with themudguards coming loose or rattling on the Logos.

A couple, Andrew and Joanne Hooker rode Logos round Australia and also from Dead Horse Alaska down into the US. On the round Australia ride the used bob trailers successfully. I didn't hear them complain about rough roads even though their trikes didn't have suspension. That was probably because they were not travelling at any great speed while touring though.

Cheesewheel wrote:Looking at adding something extra to my bike touring capacity. One option is to buy a fat bike (and be desert sand savvy). The other is to buy a recumbent (probably trike). Probably have a real use for the fat bike once a year and the trike every fortnight, so at the moment a recumbent is looking pretty good. As you can probably guess, I have zero experience with either recumbents or trikes.

All the good rides in my area have mountains which tend to make you feel every gram of touring gear onboard. I figure a trike will help lessen the load (or at least make it less of a sweat).

Things that concern me/to avoid about a trike:1. Having two wheels at the back so you get a face full of what ever the front one throws up at you (also planning to have the option of towing my extrawheel trailer, so a single rear wheel is really what I am looking at) .2. Having to micromanage every rut and bump on the road since you can't use your legs as suspensionNot a big issue and being low to the ground those bumps and holes show up even better being low even at night.3. Safety issues eg : Taking up a wider slot of the road or not having the better turning response to a hazard a two wheel offers. Also the danger of not being so visible due to low position (planning on mounting some 1.5 metre balinese flags to add a "here I am" factor) You are wider but not by much and in my opinion your safer because folks see the trike where as most drivers only see a bike and forget that you have shoulders and arms hence close shaves so when adding it up riding a DF bike your just as wide riding as on a trike. If you have a left and right mirror and keep an eye on traffic you can tell those that haven't seen you ye and start planning. I'm yet to see too many folks that don't notice a trike and most give you a wide birth more so than a DF bike.4.Low ground clearance ( is the low point on many trikes somewhere between the front and back wheels? - so you are likely to bottom out on a speed bump ?- or is more closer to the wheel/s? - so that whatever the wheel is clearing, there is a good chance the bike will clear unless you chance on some derailleur smashing rock or log that MTB'ers are similarly wary of)?I haven't meet a curb or speed hump that the trike doesn't clear and mine is low plus I have never bashed my RD only got grass in the jockey wheels when riding through tall grass and that is rare that you do that.what looks good in a design1. carrying luggage space (preferably with regular panniers bags - I already have some great ortielbs - I usually tour with between two and four panniers depending on circumstance) I could go with a simple two bag pannier carrying option since I could tag along the extrawheel cargo trailer to bring the other two as the need arises) . Whatever the case, a strong pannier rack is definitely on the cardsMost trikes will handle all luggage/equipment if you give it some thought to placement and mounting.2. good low maintenance seat (the mesh one's look good since they are ventilated and seem to offer an element of suspension)Highly recommend mesh when touring or even just local they keep you cool and offer padding having said that I use three layers on mine.3. avoiding disc brakes would be good since they can be a bit high maintenance (although I would be willing to go for disc brakes if it was part of a model that was perfect in some other aspect)Not an issue so long as you use BB7 and 203mm rotors if touring all round and if you can use a rear brake as well that is good for a drag brake. Having three disks brakes allows you to alternate between front and rear on a steep decent when loaded keeping the brakes cool. 4. In two minds about whether suspension would be a good idea (smooth out the bumps) or a bad idea (add yet another thing that could potentially go wrong). However I am pretty much convinced that coil suspension is the only sort of suspension for long distance touring - running into trouble with air suspension and no bike shop for 500 km is simply not worth itYour call but my personal experience is you don't need suspension when touring if you get BA tyres they have great puncture resistance plus take up much of the bumps and with your mesh seat your all good plus trike frames have flex adding to smoothing out the ride. 5. Seen some models that can take either a 700 or a 20/26 rear wheel (I like the idea of having a speedy option for short two day tours and an endurance option with three uniform wheels... avoiding the necessity of carrying extra repair/replacement gear for the different wheel sizes). Not a must for the final choice but I like itMost can take a 26" rear wheel but some need add-ons to the drop-outs for fitting ie: catrikes. One other thing with 700 or 26" wheels on the rear is your gear inch for climbing hills will increase making you work harder and bitch more when towing a trailer so in my opinion stick with 20" or 24" your still going to be a speed demon just not as fast if you had the larger wheels.6. Dynamo hub on one of the wheels is not a must but sounds good (for the purpose of powering front and rear lights)Your choice I don't use such devices I stick with solar panels so I can't offer advice there.7. I imagine it would mostly see use on sealed roads, but having some sort of off-road capacity, eg: dirt road, would add to the funBA tyres kick in now and smooths that ride so don't go thinking fat tyres don't roll or make life hard that is BS there good on the tarmac and offroad so that is a good set-up for touring. Swapping out for around home is fine if you want to a tyre that is more suited but not touring your going to see dirt roads so you want the best of both worlds.I am about 180cm and 80kg.Price wise, I am willing to go around $4000, but anything over $3000 has me thinking whether it is really worth it.

Having said all this, if you think there is a good reason for ignoring/adding something to my design "for's" and "against's", please feel free to chime in.

Here are some models (mostly just one type of model per brand) I have been thinking about (mostly using flyingfurniture website because they have all the specs easily accessible ... may actually make purchase at http://www.recumbent.net.au/ in sydney or epic cycles in brisbane ... just in case anyone thinks I am spamming the innocent public ) :

con's- only takes a single pannier rack (and not the strongest sort, even if you opt for the special one ..... (not sure if rear pannier racks are pretty much generic on recumbents or if there a host of different racks for every brand)

PS - going for a test ride on greenspeed trike (not a model I think I am interested in) on saturday just to get a feel for the whole trike thing

In my opinion seek out a trike that has an adjustable seat so you can fine tune the angle as a fixed back when touring you will soon find out is just not right. Steal frames are better for touring as repairs can be made with ease and most cow cocky's/towns have welders where as you will be hard pressed to find someone to fix alloy. Also don't be too concerned trying to find narrow width in trikes I find that when touring having a wider cockpit is more relaxing and stable. I also find direct steer is better for touring it gives more room and better adjustment for fine tuning handling along with tuning your hand position to be more relaxed.

Some trikes have bushings in the steer while most have bearings for be I want bearings. I use a MTB crank and chainrings when touring it gives me enough top end plus allows me to climb the biggest steepest mother out there hauling a trailer so many of the trikes come with a road set-up for cranks.

(SkOrPn you have three layers of mesh on your seat? Is it easy enough to jury rig shade cloth on the seat frame?Also interested in detail about your solar set up if you've got a link where you've discussed it in detail)

as far as models jockeying for position

... at least a disc brake on the rear would be good, mudguards and an adjustable seat a must. Chain tubes sound like a good idea too. Steel frame would be good for impromptu repairs

Ask how I go on the weekend My Ice Adventure FS HD is tackling a portion of the Munda Biddi.Changed the rear tyre to a knobby BMX one, may need to lose my mudguard but small concession for rear traction on pea gravel!

(SkOrPn you have three layers of mesh on your seat? Is it easy enough to jury rig shade cloth on the seat frame?Also interested in detail about your solar set up if you've got a link where you've discussed it in detail)

Hi CW I have the ACS10 mesh in the below link which I use three layers to make up my own personal level of comfort.

As for Jury rigging shade cloth to the frame it can be done but in my case both the bucket style and older style would need some thinking and messing around for it to be done and I would say a heavy duty sewing machine. I use a standard home sewing machine when making my ACS10 mesh seat but to do as you asked on mine I think building a new chair frame that is more straight sided would be cheaper or even buying a pre-made one from another trike manufacture and retro fitting.

I don't have a link to any discussion on my solar set-up but what I do have is a Brunton 26w fordable solar panel which charges all my devices that I drape over the trailer and have wires made up that are hidden and connect to the bike much like a car trailer wiring set-up. I also have a 16000mAh Solar Power Universal Charger that charges or powers everything from 5v-19v and in the case of phones and the likes will charge them back to being full in 2 hrs and you get about 6 charges from that unit before itself needs charging either via mains power it's own solar cell or external solar panel.

After doing my lose-your-inhibitions-against-riding-through-hilly-terrain tour on a fully loaded surly + extrawheel I gave serious thought to the idea of moving over to a trike (particularly when going down hill - on more than one occasion I nearly lost it to speed wobbles .... what to speak of coming down on a gravel road ). I think I will go for something a bit more expensive (probably an ICE tourer with some sort of suspension) than what I had originally set out. This will push the purchase date back some time. Might come back to this thread later when I have the extra $$$.

CW can I make a suggestion from experience if your going to tour on a trike and use a trailer get the trike fitted with 203mm rotors the 160mm rotors that come stock on many of the trikes just don't cut it there not up to the task of long steep decent. Even if your not going to get a trailer for a trike the bigger rotors will still be a god send to have they really make the world of difference. If you set up the rod ends and balance your load right you will have an easy ride down hills even towing a trailer. On mine I have hit over 80km towing and it's been real stable plus you can corner on a knife edge if needed. The other great thing about 3 wheels is if going up hill you can stop dead and have your bike balanced/stable to either take pictures of just relax no trying to keep control of bike balance like a DF. If you get a ICE trike your in good hands there a great machine and well built for the money you spend so good luck in finding your new bike.

I think I posted pictures here of how I did my seat pad. Ventisit style.I used small cable ties and it is pretty much like the ventisit method I think.

Finished pad

I have to get off line now as I am off to the city 4.30 am tomorrow. I'll look for the post when I get back and if I can't find it I'll repost the details.

For the "shade cloth style I used some outdoor furniture mesh. Its like shadecloth but stronger. my local upholsterer had it. I got him to stitch a tubular fold down each side, punched some semicircular holes and slid some ali wire (later brake cable outer) down the tubes . It wraps round the seat sides and is tensioned with cable ties but it could be bungy cord if you wish.

not wanting to throw a spanner in the works but I recall concerns regarding single wheel trailers and tadpole trikes. I remember Greenspeed were selling and spruiking BoB trailers, but switched to Burleys. I also seem to recall that ICE were not recommending them for their suspended models at least. I've done a little hunting but can't find (and don't have the time) the threads at Bentrider to link to.

The concern centered around twisting forces applied to the rear triangle in turns. It was some time ago, which may explain my difficulty in finding the relevant links, but worth asking the question of suppliers if you're intending to use the Extrawheel.

chuckchunder wrote:not wanting to throw a spanner in the works but I recall concerns regarding single wheel trailers and tadpole trikes. I remember Greenspeed were selling and spruiking BoB trailers, but switched to Burleys. I also seem to recall that ICE were not recommending them for their suspended models at least. I've done a little hunting but can't find (and don't have the time) the threads at Bentrider to link to.

The concern centered around twisting forces applied to the rear triangle in turns. It was some time ago, which may explain my difficulty in finding the relevant links, but worth asking the question of suppliers if you're intending to use the Extrawheel.

cheers

glen

Spanner rejectedI asked Ice Trikes about my Ice Adventure FS HD and they suggested the Cyclone IV Trekking and so did FlyingFurniture