PatsEng, not going to quote/requote. I understand what you're saying but a lot of your points are based on 20/20 hindsight. Moreover, there is absolutely no way of knowing how many years you surrender taking the approach in your hypothetical. Finally, irrespective what is discussed here there is no reason to expect the Pats to deviate from the business and football operations model that they've employed since BB's arrival.

As an aside, Tavon Wilson may have been an overreach or not. Thus far he has hardly set the league on fire and he may take off in his 3rd year but that, at this point, seems unrealistic. When you say 'don't overreach on draft picks' what you're really saying is go with what everyone else thinks about a player an not what the Pats model is. BB will pick who he picks and all of the hyperventilation and vein bursting that we see in this forum when he doesn't take the Mel Kiper pick won't change a thing.

Make me a homer? Perhaps, but no disrespect intended, I'll put my trust in a guy who has made the team competitive year in and year out and not any of the reconstruction models I see here.

correct, and that's because the business model has more to do with Kraft's vision is for running a "successful" business. It's not necessarily about championships vs. the almighty dollar.

Worst logic ive heard in weeks. Krafts priority is Super Bowls and the most he can win(which has been the most in the league since he purchased the team so his "visions" have been pretty great!) He went about this by hiring a man who shared his vision of longevity. 1 play different in 2006, 2007, and 2011 and we have 6 SB championships in 13 years. No other teams can say they were 1 play away from more championships. Can Denver? Can GB, they got slaughtered, can pitt?

Dont try to paint Kraft as a man looking for money and not a guy who grew up a Pats fan, purchased the team and built a dynasty with BB.

PatsEng, not going to quote/requote. I understand what you're saying but a lot of your points are based on 20/20 hindsight. Moreover, there is absolutely no way of knowing how many years you surrender taking the approach in your hypothetical. Finally, irrespective what is discussed here there is no reason to expect the Pats to deviate from the business and football operations model that they've employed since BB's arrival.

As an aside, Tavon Wilson may have been an overreach or not. Thus far he has hardly set the league on fire and he may take off in his 3rd year but that, at this point, seems unrealistic. When you say 'don't overreach on draft picks' what you're really saying is go with what everyone else thinks about a player an not what the Pats model is. BB will pick who he picks and all of the hyperventilation and vein bursting that we see in this forum when he doesn't take the Mel Kiper pick won't change a thing.

Make me a homer? Perhaps, but no disrespect intended, I'll put my trust in a guy who has made the team competitive year in and year out and not any of the reconstruction models I see here.

correct, and that's because the business model has more to do with Kraft's vision is for running a "successful" business. It's not necessarily about championships vs. the almighty dollar.

Worst logic ive heard in weeks. Krafts priority is Super Bowls and the most he can win(which has been the most in the league since he purchased the team so his "visions" have been pretty great!) He went about this by hiring a man who shared his vision of longevity. 1 play different in 2006, 2007, and 2011 and we have 6 SB championships in 13 years. No other teams can say they were 1 play away from more championships. Can Denver? Can GB, they got slaughtered, can pitt?

Dont try to paint Kraft as a man looking for money and not a guy who grew up a Pats fan, purchased the team and built a dynasty with BB.

How we forgot the Pats WERE in every single SB they have played in since 2001. No blowout losses and leading every single one late in the game. 2006 AFCCG, they got jobbed.

PatsEng, not going to quote/requote. I understand what you're saying but a lot of your points are based on 20/20 hindsight. Moreover, there is absolutely no way of knowing how many years you surrender taking the approach in your hypothetical. Finally, irrespective what is discussed here there is no reason to expect the Pats to deviate from the business and football operations model that they've employed since BB's arrival.

As an aside, Tavon Wilson may have been an overreach or not. Thus far he has hardly set the league on fire and he may take off in his 3rd year but that, at this point, seems unrealistic. When you say 'don't overreach on draft picks' what you're really saying is go with what everyone else thinks about a player an not what the Pats model is. BB will pick who he picks and all of the hyperventilation and vein bursting that we see in this forum when he doesn't take the Mel Kiper pick won't change a thing.

Make me a homer? Perhaps, but no disrespect intended, I'll put my trust in a guy who has made the team competitive year in and year out and not any of the reconstruction models I see here.

correct, and that's because the business model has more to do with Kraft's vision is for running a "successful" business. It's not necessarily about championships vs. the almighty dollar.

Worst logic ive heard in weeks. Krafts priority is Super Bowls and the most he can win(which has been the most in the league since he purchased the team so his "visions" have been pretty great!) He went about this by hiring a man who shared his vision of longevity. 1 play different in 2006, 2007, and 2011 and we have 6 SB championships in 13 years. No other teams can say they were 1 play away from more championships. Can Denver? Can GB, they got slaughtered, can pitt?

Dont try to paint Kraft as a man looking for money and not a guy who grew up a Pats fan, purchased the team and built a dynasty with BB.

with all due respect true (and I have no say either) you dont know Kraft. Sure he started as a fan but you dont think people change? Money changes just about everyone. Look at what he did once Myra passed. Got him some eye candy and started flashing the baphomet. Dont be naiive man. I am not judging him but unless you know him personally , you cant speak to what kind of man he is or what he is AFTER. So far it looks like he is smart enough to know he can get to the dance every year w/BB/Brady and thats it. He doesnt have to shelll out big bucks. Not saying he is keeping money but its deep bro. Do the research. Kraft looks pretty content to me.

FYI, my son and daughter-in-law are engineers (both licensed) and I have a sense of how engineers view the world (plus I served with nuclear engineers for most of my Navy career). I don't hold that against you ;-).

Hey, I'm the first one to say that there are things on that team, particularly the D, that need fixing and I don't fault anyone who has ideas on how to do it. But, as you so appropriately point out, it is all in fun - except when it's not and people get fired up to the point where they begin to assault one another's character. I left that crap behind in elementary school and don't really see the fun in it.

I'd take a crack at prescribing a fix but I'd like to think that I'm a practical guy and would like to prescribe one (if I'm going to) that is truly a fix. My problem is I don't know enough about managing the salary cap to make an intelligent contribution to such a discussion. Hell, I show my a_ss often enough on things where I actually do know something without jumping in on that. That's why I generally defer to BB. Not because I think he knows all but simply because I know he knows more than me.

Not a particularly exciting way of looking at it but there you have it.

Fair enough and I agree with the personal attack part. I like to think I don't attack people when sharing comments but it does irk me everytime I hear someone say something to the extent of "what you think you know better then why aren't you a gm" type of thing. Or why even bother they know better than you so just sit back and enjoy. While I do agree to some extent other peoples fun is breaking down the faults and thinking of ways they could improve. I highly doubt anyone thinks they would be listened to or that it matters but it's just one more way to feel even the slightest part closer to the team they love so why not let people enjoy it? Once it gets into name calling though it's no longer fun and yes we should all have grown up by now.

I kind of look at it this way...we win (not Super Bowls any longer, but enough to consider it a success), the place is sold out, on Sundays Partriot Place is pretty full...people are walikng around, people are buying stuff, going to dinner, etc. Ther is most definately a budget in place with this team - and I'm not talking about a salary cap thing, but a money paid out in actual cash spending budget. As long as Brady is here and we are winning the AFC, making it to the playoffs and maybe winning a game nothing is going to change.

It kind of reminds me of the Bruins from the 80's (Jerremy Jacobs cash cow)...we had Bourque, we had Neely and we had Oates....we needed just a little more to win it all, but we had a "budget". It was about running a business...it was about making money and being responsible. And here we are now - we need a couple of quality pieces to get us over the hump - but that costs money and we aren't going to go over budget....doesn't matter if it may mean a super bowl, it's about staying competitive enough to put people in the seats and remain highly profitable. It's a business, that business philosophy won't change until we start losing and people stop going....then you won't hear about things like fiscal resposibility, it makes more sense to build the lower end of your roster with high quality players (when every November we are signing people from Taco Bell). It will be different when it hits this franchise where they don't want to get hit the most...the wallet.

"It started as a murmur. It then became audible chatter. Now it is a howl.

Those who thought the Patriots should "load up" following a crushing loss to the Denver Broncos in the AFC Championship game are now demanding it after watching the Seattle Seahawks knocked the Broncos hooves off in the Super Bowl.

Enough with the 5-foot-10 receivers and small cornerbacks and unknown retreads who populate the bottom third of the roster. This growing subsection of observers demand that the Patriots go for it before paint loosens and Tom Brady's window slams shut.

But as those cries wail through the streets of New England and over the airwaves, it's unlikely that they'll be heard in the offices at 1 Patriot Place. Owner Robert Kraft already said as much during a recent radio appearance on 98.5 The Sports Hub.

"We're trying to manage our resources as wisely as we can and be as aggressive as we can, but we're trying to make sure every year we are putting ourselves in a position to win," Kraft said.

And while it's fun to think what the team would look like with Larry Fitzgerald on the outside or Jimmy Graham lining up next to Rob Gronkowski at tight end, spending lavishly on the open market this offseason isn't wise for the long-term success of the franchise.

The Patriots have $118 million committed to their top 51 players and $8.5 million in dead money. If the salary cap is set at $128 million, the highest estimate being floated, the Patriots would have about $5.5 million in free space, given that they can roll over $4.1 million in unused space from last season.

That's not much room to play with. Re-sign someone like cornerback Aqib Talib, wide receiver Julian Edelman or running back LeGarrette Blount, and the coffers are emptied. Now, money can be created by restructuring contracts, releasing guys, or getting creative with how deals are structured, but eventually you have to face reality. Loading up brings talent. It also brings bad deals. More often the latter outweighs the benefits of the former.

The chatter surrounding the team last offseason was similar to what is being said this time around. Brady needed more weapons, particularly a deep threat, and the savior identified by many was Mike Wallace. Alas, the Miami Dolphins won those sweepstakes, and are now on the hook for $17.25 million next season for a guy who caught 73 passes for 930 yards in 2013.

For the sake of reference, Green Bay quarterback Aaron Rodgers carries a cap figure of $17.9 million next year. Lucky for the Dolphins, they aren't carrying many other heavy contracts, so they'll have room to improve their roster, but these deals often don't look as good once the sun comes up.

There's a reason that it's become a cliché to say that good teams are built through the draft, and bad teams look forward to free agency. It's true. More often than not, these free agents don't survive more than a few years with their new teams.

Remember the so-called "Dream Team" the Philadelphia Eagles assembled in 2011? Defensive end Jason Babin, defensive tackle Cullen Jenkins and cornerback Nnamdi Asomugha were the jewels of that free-agent class. All three have since been cut.

But the Eagles weren't the only team that struggled in free agency that offseason. Nineteen players signed deals with a new team spanning four or more years in 2011. Ten of them have already been released.

What Philadelphia learned was that collecting talent isn't the same as building a team. Not only did some of their new additions struggle to blend in, their presence ruffled those who were already on the roster. Chemistry never developed and the experiment failed.

That lesson registered with Kraft, who pointed to the 2012 Baltimore Ravens as an example. Baltimore was able to blend their new pieces in and win the Super Bowl, but they had to start cutting pieces free and went 8-8 and missed the playoffs in 2013.

That isn't the way he wants to do things.

"There's so many things that happen," he said. "I don't ever believe in selling your soul for a bowl of (porridge)."

What Kraft and the Patriots may be interested in is adding a missing piece here or there through free agency, which is what the Seahawks were able to do last offseason. It should, however, be pointed out that Seattle quarterback Russell Wilson had a base salary of $526,217 last season. Patriots tight end Michael Hoomanwanui was at $630,000. Having a quarterback that cheap makes it easier to take a few risks, though Seattle's spending can hardly be considered reckless.

They signed defensive ends Cliff Avril (two years, $13 million) and Michael Bennett (one year, $4.8 million) to reasonable deals, though trading for wide receiver Percy Harvin and signing him to a lucrative extension was a bit of a gamble. But the key to those moves was Wilson, which makes Seattle's situation completely unlike New England's.

But either way, loading up and revamping the offense by signing anyone with a decent set of stats is unlikely to happen in New England. The Patriots already began this task last offseason and will likely look to stay the course. Another tight end is likely needed, and a veteran wide receiver may help, but those looking for a shopping spree are sure to be disappointed.

"I think a better strategy is to try to be solid and be able to compete year in and year out," Kraft said.

It won't appease the fans, but that's the more prudent approach."

------

noone really thought the Patriots would/could load up....

1.

BUST-CHISEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Did you think I wouldn't do my job for this board and let them know you are the one and only BUST-CHISE, the world’s biggest and most ridiculous NY Jets Troll? That you hunt for the backsides of your neighbors kitties at night? That you carry an old rag, a torn up Mark Sanchez Jets T-Shirt, and a bottle of chloroform which you use to incapacitate your young feline victims and that it's the reason you call this BUST-CHISE persona "Phat Virgin"?

You will be known whenever you come here….this I swear to this board….the NY Jets are the worst franchise in the history of the NFL…44 years of laughable failure and ridicule, like Kellen “Vaseline Jazz Hands” Winslow….RUB-A-DUB-DUB, BUST-CHISE, RUB -A--DUB-DUB

Dick, You're doing a great job as the Forum Fool. Keep up the good work

BUST-CHISEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Did you think I wouldn't do my job for this board and let them know you are the one and only BUST-CHISE, the world’s biggest and most ridiculous NY Jets Troll? That you hunt for the backsides of your neighbors kitties at night? That you carry an old rag, a torn up Mark Sanchez Jets T-Shirt, and a bottle of chloroform which you use to incapacitate your young feline victims and that it's the reason you call this BUST-CHISE persona "Phat Virgin"?

And how about all your other names BUST-CHISE ?

Among them are:

Bustify

Uncle Rico

Manning Rules

Meadowland Mike

Mile High Mike

Bungalo Bill

Wewerrdat

You will be known whenever you come here….this I swear to this board….the NY Jets are the worst franchise in the history of the NFL…44 years of laughable failure and ridicule, like Kellen “Vaseline Jazz Hands” Winslow….RUB-A-DUB-DUB, BUST-CHISE, RUB -A--DUB-DUB

No Gronk, Hernandez or Vollmer. No Wilfork, Kelly or Mayo. Still a 4th place finish. Unacceptable to some, remarkable to me and many others. Thank you Mr. Kraft. Stay the course.

here here.

If the Pats had a very suprisingly healthy year instead of a pretty unluckily hurt year the outcome would have been very, very different. With Gronk and Volmer on offense for the second half of the year and play offs, and VW, kelly, mayo, spikes, Talib healthy for the end of year and playoffs I bet we would be solid favorites to win a game against Seatle. Even in hindsight. We would have burried the broncos. Not even close. That D we started to see to start the year would have improved, and the O was catching fire with Gronk and Volmer in there. I would have liked my odds for sure.

The goal of a successful franchise should be to make the top 4-8 every year, and hope for good health and the lucky bounce. This year they almost made the superbowl despite devestating injuries. Next year maybe they get better luck. VW, Mankins, and a few others are due a cap hit adjustment to allow for holes to be filled and depth to be restored. It happens every year, and yet we are always suprised by it. BB knows how to win. Enjoy it.

Did you think I wouldn't do my job for this board and let them know you are the one and only BUST-CHISE, the world’s biggest and most ridiculous NY Jets Troll? That you hunt for the backsides of your neighbors kitties at night? That you carry an old rag, a torn up Mark Sanchez Jets T-Shirt, and a bottle of chloroform which you use to incapacitate your young feline victims and that it's the reason you call this BUST-CHISE persona "Phat Virgin"?

And how about all your other names BUST-CHISE ?

Among them are:

Bustify

Uncle Rico

Manning Rules

Meadowland Mike

Mile High Mike

Bungalo Bill

Wewerrdat

You will be known whenever you come here….this I swear to this board….the NY Jets are the worst franchise in the history of the NFL…44 years of laughable failure and ridicule, like Kellen “Vaseline Jazz Hands” Winslow….RUB-A-DUB-DUB, BUST-CHISE, RUB -A--DUB-DUB

There are investment strategies between hiding all your money under the mattress and gambling it all in Vegas. On this site, those who criticize the Pats act as if they are so risk averse they avoid investing altogether, while those who defend the Pats seem to think any alternative to what they do is a trip to the casino.

Eng is just arguing for them to balance their portfolio a bit differently, with a little more in stock and a little less in bonds. It's not like he's asking Kraft to bet the whole farm on one spin of the roulette wheel.

Exactly. They've done it before.

It's a myth that Bill won by pulling people off the scrap heap entirely. It's also a myth that nabbing a front line FA doesn't help New England. They committed top RB dollar ($5 mil per) to Corey Dillon, and that worked.

It's about doing it shrewdly. New England doesn't need a RB, they have a couple. They also don't have Deion Branch in his prime, or a host of defensive stars. They could add a player there if they thought that was the piece they need.

Myself, I'm for adding tastefully. Another pass rusher to swap in for Nink and Jones would be amazing. Or actually spending a little cash to get a DL that isn't 40, and can stabilize the front four? Surely, that is worth spending $4-5 mil per for? We aren't talking "splash" here, just getting some roster spots filled with starters instead of backups like Vellano, and getting some WR insurance ...

I kind of look at it this way...we win (not Super Bowls any longer, but enough to consider it a success), the place is sold out, on Sundays Partriot Place is pretty full...people are walikng around, people are buying stuff, going to dinner, etc. Ther is most definately a budget in place with this team - and I'm not talking about a salary cap thing, but a money paid out in actual cash spending budget. As long as Brady is here and we are winning the AFC, making it to the playoffs and maybe winning a game nothing is going to change.

It kind of reminds me of the Bruins from the 80's (Jerremy Jacobs cash cow)...we had Bourque, we had Neely and we had Oates....we needed just a little more to win it all, but we had a "budget". It was about running a business...it was about making money and being responsible. And here we are now - we need a couple of quality pieces to get us over the hump - but that costs money and we aren't going to go over budget....doesn't matter if it may mean a super bowl, it's about staying competitive enough to put people in the seats and remain highly profitable. It's a business, that business philosophy won't change until we start losing and people stop going....then you won't hear about things like fiscal resposibility, it makes more sense to build the lower end of your roster with high quality players (when every November we are signing people from Taco Bell). It will be different when it hits this franchise where they don't want to get hit the most...the wallet.

I too am beginning to feel it is Bruin-esque. I used the same comparison with a couple friends the other day.

There are investment strategies between hiding all your money under the mattress and gambling it all in Vegas. On this site, those who criticize the Pats act as if they are so risk averse they avoid investing altogether, while those who defend the Pats seem to think any alternative to what they do is a trip to the casino.

Eng is just arguing for them to balance their portfolio a bit differently, with a little more in stock and a little less in bonds. It's not like he's asking Kraft to bet the whole farm on one spin of the roulette wheel.

I disagree, I think he's asking Kraft to only invest in the stocks with the highest returns, and unless you're Gordon f-ing Gecko that is just not possible.....or if you had that sports almanac from Back to the Future part 2, that would also in knowing what will happen in the future.

I guess for mere mortal highly succesful men like Kraft and Belichick they will have to just stick to smart business decisions, that allow for a longevity that is unmatched in the particular business they are in.

Actually Pro is right. True name 1 big name FA I've asked to go get. You'd be hard pressed to find a single one in all my years of posting. What I have asked for though is to get Goldson (when we had in him for a visit prior to his big year in SF), spend more to ensure you got Sanders, get a Byrant, stop putting money into retreads like A. Wilson, trade for a Boldin and extend him (they had a deal for the first part but cheaped out on the 2nd), I wanted to get DRC last year when the money was low, I don't think it's wise to invest in an injury prone player who has shown they can't stay healthy over 16 games (unless they are HoF talent level), and if you look over my draft choices over the years I have not advised to move up more then 10 picks in the 1st and only suggest moving a 2nd or lower pick from next year into this year if you get a high level talent player that fills a need. The one thing I have asked for is to use their first round pick on a DT or at least a 2nd. Almost every FA I've ever suggested usually got a contract within a couple mil per year (in the first couple years) of what the Pats signed as an alternative and usually within a couple years of that alternative too. I'm not suggesting taking on high risk change but take more certain and higher value stocks then yes it can and has worked in the past.

Seriously True, you have me curious now. What FA's or changes have I expressed that you feel is as you described?

PatsEng, not going to quote/requote. I understand what you're saying but a lot of your points are based on 20/20 hindsight. Moreover, there is absolutely no way of knowing how many years you surrender taking the approach in your hypothetical. Finally, irrespective what is discussed here there is no reason to expect the Pats to deviate from the business and football operations model that they've employed since BB's arrival.

As an aside, Tavon Wilson may have been an overreach or not. Thus far he has hardly set the league on fire and he may take off in his 3rd year but that, at this point, seems unrealistic. When you say 'don't overreach on draft picks' what you're really saying is go with what everyone else thinks about a player an not what the Pats model is. BB will pick who he picks and all of the hyperventilation and vein bursting that we see in this forum when he doesn't take the Mel Kiper pick won't change a thing.

Make me a homer? Perhaps, but no disrespect intended, I'll put my trust in a guy who has made the team competitive year in and year out and not any of the reconstruction models I see here.

correct, and that's because the business model has more to do with Kraft's vision is for running a "successful" business. It's not necessarily about championships vs. the almighty dollar.

BUST-CHISEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Did you think I wouldn't do my job for this board and let them know you are the one and only BUST-CHISE, the world’s biggest and most ridiculous NY Jets Troll? That you hunt for the backsides of your neighbors kitties at night? That you carry an old rag, a torn up Mark Sanchez Jets T-Shirt, and a bottle of chloroform which you use to incapacitate your young feline victims and that it's the reason you call this BUST-CHISE persona "Phat Virgin"?

And how about all your other names BUST-CHISE ?

Among them are:

Bustify

Uncle Rico

Manning Rules

Meadowland Mike

Mile High Mike

Bungalo Bill

Wewerrdat

Fletcherbrook

You will be known whenever you come here….this I swear to this board….the NY Jets are the worst franchise in the history of the NFL…44 years of laughable failure and ridicule, like Kellen “Vaseline Jazz Hands” Winslow….RUB-A-DUB-DUB, BUST-CHISE, RUB -A--DUB-DUB

FYI, my son and daughter-in-law are engineers (both licensed) and I have a sense of how engineers view the world (plus I served with nuclear engineers for most of my Navy career). I don't hold that against you ;-).

Hey, I'm the first one to say that there are things on that team, particularly the D, that need fixing and I don't fault anyone who has ideas on how to do it. But, as you so appropriately point out, it is all in fun - except when it's not and people get fired up to the point where they begin to assault one another's character. I left that crap behind in elementary school and don't really see the fun in it.

I'd take a crack at prescribing a fix but I'd like to think that I'm a practical guy and would like to prescribe one (if I'm going to) that is truly a fix. My problem is I don't know enough about managing the salary cap to make an intelligent contribution to such a discussion. Hell, I show my a_ss often enough on things where I actually do know something without jumping in on that. That's why I generally defer to BB. Not because I think he knows all but simply because I know he knows more than me.

Not a particularly exciting way of looking at it but there you have it.

Fair enough and I agree with the personal attack part. I like to think I don't attack people when sharing comments but it does irk me everytime I hear someone say something to the extent of "what you think you know better then why aren't you a gm" type of thing. Or why even bother they know better than you so just sit back and enjoy. While I do agree to some extent other peoples fun is breaking down the faults and thinking of ways they could improve. I highly doubt anyone thinks they would be listened to or that it matters but it's just one more way to feel even the slightest part closer to the team they love so why not let people enjoy it? Once it gets into name calling though it's no longer fun and yes we should all have grown up by now.

See, I don't have issue one with anything that you've posted. Why not play GM and see what you can come up with? No sweat there from my perspective. When it gets to the point, however, when I read that the Pats crapped the bed because they didn't sign this guy or didn't resign this guy or released that guy then I have to think 'They did?'. I have no problem with what anyone posts in here (with certain exceptions) but when a fan dumps on the team or its management simply because they did or didn't do this one thing that was THE answer that kind of borders on the silly.

As I said before, is BB perfect? Of course not. Do I scratch my head at some things he does? You bet I do. But I go back to when the franchise was formed and I guess that kind of shapes the way I approach all of this. The Pats history from a fan's perspective has not exactly been one lengthy tea party at Buckingham Palace. When Kraft bought the franchise, I was truly enthusiastic. When he hired BB I liked the move. The rest is history.

Now - let's get some things done here, BB. I want:

Quality depth at tight end

A tough DT who will either help or replace Big Vince

Tougher interior O line

A beast of an SS who strikes fear in the hearts of wideouts across the league

Talib resigned at a reasonable price or a replacement

And I don't give a rat's a_ss whether it's through the draft or free agency.

I kind of look at it this way...we win (not Super Bowls any longer, but enough to consider it a success), the place is sold out, on Sundays Partriot Place is pretty full...people are walikng around, people are buying stuff, going to dinner, etc. Ther is most definately a budget in place with this team - and I'm not talking about a salary cap thing, but a money paid out in actual cash spending budget. As long as Brady is here and we are winning the AFC, making it to the playoffs and maybe winning a game nothing is going to change.

It kind of reminds me of the Bruins from the 80's (Jerremy Jacobs cash cow)...we had Bourque, we had Neely and we had Oates....we needed just a little more to win it all, but we had a "budget". It was about running a business...it was about making money and being responsible. And here we are now - we need a couple of quality pieces to get us over the hump - but that costs money and we aren't going to go over budget....doesn't matter if it may mean a super bowl, it's about staying competitive enough to put people in the seats and remain highly profitable. It's a business, that business philosophy won't change until we start losing and people stop going....then you won't hear about things like fiscal resposibility, it makes more sense to build the lower end of your roster with high quality players (when every November we are signing people from Taco Bell). It will be different when it hits this franchise where they don't want to get hit the most...the wallet.

I too am beginning to feel it is Bruin-esque. I used the same comparison with a couple friends the other day.

And I probably shouldn't of used Jacobs as an example (that guy pretty much single handedly ruined my childhood), but Kraft's comments and outlook do remind me of those Bruin's years when Sinden would come out and tell us all about a budget, a business, being responsible, etc. Meanwhile we needed one more guy, but they wouldn't spend to get it.

I think right now with this pats team they need to extend themselves just a little more (and have for four years), but won't. They haven't spent to the cap, for what? Four of the last five years? They have at times left themselves 7 million under the cap and some of this was before heading into the uncapped year. Now people will say, "they save that money for injuries during the year", but those players they sign in November are had for peanuts - those are guys we never heard of who need a job and would practically play for nothing. And then people will say, "but they roll that money into the next cap year", but they did that once before, and you know what they did that next year? They did the exact same thing...rolled it into the future again. This is great business sense, but it is not making sense when you are in the playoffs and can't get within shouting distance of their QB. A pass rusher would help a lot more than 7 million being rolled into next year.

Now I could understand some of this business philosphy if we weren't so close..if we didn't have Brady...if we were playing with some first round pick quarterback learning the game/rebuilding, but we are not that.

There are investment strategies between hiding all your money under the mattress and gambling it all in Vegas. On this site, those who criticize the Pats act as if they are so risk averse they avoid investing altogether, while those who defend the Pats seem to think any alternative to what they do is a trip to the casino.

Eng is just arguing for them to balance their portfolio a bit differently, with a little more in stock and a little less in bonds. It's not like he's asking Kraft to bet the whole farm on one spin of the roulette wheel.

I disagree, I think he's asking Kraft to only invest in the stocks with the highest returns, and unless you're Gordon f-ing Gecko that is just not possible.....or if you had that sports almanac from Back to the Future part 2, that would also in knowing what will happen in the future.

I guess for mere mortal highly succesful men like Kraft and Belichick they will have to just stick to smart business decisions, that allow for a longevity that is unmatched in the particular business they are in.

Actually Pro is right. True name 1 big name FA I've asked to go get. You'd be hard pressed to find a single one in all my years of posting. What I have asked for though is to get Goldson (when we had in him for a visit prior to his big year in SF), spend more to ensure you got Sanders, get a Byrant, stop putting money into retreads like A. Wilson, trade for a Boldin and extend him (they had a deal for the first part but cheaped out on the 2nd), I wanted to get DRC last year when the money was low, I don't think it's wise to invest in an injury prone player who has shown they can't stay healthy over 16 games (unless they are HoF talent level), and if you look over my draft choices over the years I have not advised to move up more then 10 picks in the 1st and only suggest moving a 2nd or lower pick from next year into this year if you get a high level talent player that fills a need. The one thing I have asked for is to use their first round pick on a DT or at least a 2nd. Almost every FA I've ever suggested usually got a contract within a couple mil per year (in the first couple years) of what the Pats signed as an alternative and usually within a couple years of that alternative too. I'm not suggesting taking on high risk change but take more certain and higher value stocks then yes it can and has worked in the past.

Seriously True, you have me curious now. What FA's or changes have I expressed that you feel is as you described?

Well...

Goldson got 42 milly for 5 years and I believe was the 2nd highest FA contract to Revis? He plays the same position as Devin McCourty just not as good, so why would we do that?

"Spend more to assure you got Sanders" Why?

He plays the same position as Edelman and Amendola. So, unless you are using hindsight and looking at Amendola, KT, Dobson, and Gronk all being injured and THEN seeing we would need a SIXTH option at 3 or 3.5 million for 1 year in Sanders, well then I applaud you and your ability to look back....

Red Bryant over Jonathan Fanene = a TERRIBLE decision if we had done it. 1st off Bryant is a 330 pound 2 down run stuffer who is not great againt the run. He got paid 5 years 35 MILLION, and will probably be cut if he doesn't take a restructure. See, you guys can't just look back at the Fanene decision(which was a sound one) and in hindsight see that he lied about an injury, didn't play so we were stupid for not going after Bryant, who is over weight, and has a 8.5 MILLION cap hit this year

"Seahawks LE Red Bryant currently has an $8.5 million cap number for 2014."

Working against Bryant is a $3 million roster bonus due on March 14. Bryant only played 488 snaps in 2013, offers next to nothing in terms of a pass rush, and turns 30 in April. The Seahawks are looking to clear as much cap space as possible with important players like DL Michael Bennett set to hit the open market next month.
Feb 3 - 7:27 PM

Fanene was a good signing and secured the strong rotational DE/DT that we are ALL looking for. Read below what they said in Cinci after we stole Fanene from them. Again, only with the hindsight of him lying about being addicted to pain killers is this a bad signing. At 290 pounds he could hold gap integrity and get after the QB(sounds like a dream fit for us right?)

"On the other hand losing Fanene to a $12 million deal over three seasons is a blow that Cincinnati should have avoided. Consider that in two of the past three seasons, Fanene finished second on the team with at least six quarterback sacks in both seasons. And the one year he didn't, Fanene missed 14 games that season (2010) due to an injury. Additionally he finished third on the team with 15 quarterback pressures.

DRC(CB from denver I assume) got 5 million for 1 year, and fell off after 3 good years in Arizona, he had his 1st season with zero INT's in 2011, and was cut after another dismall 2012 season in Philly w playing put a huge contract, then stole 5 million from Denver last year, and you wanted us to get him for Talib money? And why? Our CB rotation is one of the better units on the team?

You say, you don't want to take on high risk change but suggested we signed Goldson at 42 million(70 tackles 1 pick, 1 FF) Bryant at 32 million(30 tackles a sack, and falling off in the run game and makes 8.2 million cap hit this year??) DRC 5 million for a Cb who isn't better then our top 4, Boldin who is one of my favorite players but is 34 years old, and would have cost 6 million last year, and probably another 12 for the next 2. You don't want aging vets like Adrian Wilson at 33 years old and 1.8 million(and had as good a career as Boldin) but you want Boldin 34 years old 6 million? What?

You guys all suffer from the same problem. You take all the small acquisitions that didn't work out which is exactly BB's team building philosophy for 13 years leave no stone unturned(or in murtls case he will take guys that contributed like Lloyd, Adalius Thomas, Brandon Spikes but say they were busts etc..) and say, {See we told you we should have signed player A, B, or C instead} even though those players were not reasonable contracts to hand out and haven't worked out for other teams.

I am not saying BB only makes good decisions, I also wanted a DT early for 2 years now, I wanted Big John Abraham(an aging vet who had another one of his standard good seasons 11.5 sacks as a rotational player) But the bottom line is we had serious injury problems and other problems.

If we had the 2 guys we committed 80 million to rebuild our offense through(Gronk and Hern) coupled with Dobson, Edelman, and Amendola, Rid, Blount and Vareen, then our offense is wayyy better then it currently sits as the 3rd best offense in the league!

If we have VW, and Tommy Kelly( a great signing) all year with fellow team captain and tackle machine Mayo, and a physical intimidating "Incredible Hulk" Adrian Wilson, and a healthy Talib our defense is DOMINATE.

We have had terrible luck, but still field a team that regularly goes to the AFC championship game. This team is on great shape and while nobody does it perfect, BB is one of the best in the league...still.

You guys all suffer from the same problem. You take all the small acquisitions that didn't work out which is exactly BB's team building philosophy for 13 years leave no stone unturned(or in murtls case he will take guys that contributed like Lloyd, Adalius Thomas, Brandon Spikes but say they were busts etc..) and say, {See we told you we should have signed player A, B, or C instead} even though those players were not reasonable contracts to hand out and haven't worked out for other teams.

I am not saying BB only makes good decisions, I also wanted a DT early for 2 years now, I wanted Big John Abraham(an aging vet who had another one of his standard good seasons 11.5 sacks as a rotational player) But the bottom line is we had serious injury problems and other problems.

If we had the 2 guys we committed 80 million to rebuild our offense through(Gronk and Hern) coupled with Dobson, Edelman, and Amendola, Rid, Blount and Vareen, then our offense is wayyy better then it currently sits as the 3rd best offense in the league!

If we have VW, and Tommy Kelly( a great signing) all year with fellow team captain and tackle machine Mayo, and a physical intimidating "Incredible Hulk" Adrian Wilson, and a healthy Talib our defense is DOMINATE.

We have had terrible luck, but still field a team that regularly goes to the AFC championship game. This team is on great shape and while nobody does it perfect, BB is one of the best in the league...still.

This the part I have a problem with is - this was not just "terrible luck" - when you sign and count on old, heavy players to be the foundation of your defense - that don't - that is not "luck"...that is poor decisions.

It was a poor decision to walk into the season with two 33 year old defensive tackles as the heart/center of your D. I and many were calling for a younger player (with talent) at that spot...yet we signed a guy with a heart problem (who never played) and a 32 year old guy who was two years removed from a ACL tear coming off a down year...and what happened? The heart guy never made iot out of the locker room and the old guy never made it out of October before going down with a non contact major knee injury...and the 335 pound other guy (Vince) didn't make it past the 2nd game after his non contact posssible career ending injury. This is what happens with older players...and let's not even mention Adrain Wilson, who looked old, slow and useless before he blasted out his achilles.

This is not just "terrible luck", this poor decisions and it hurt us...again.

You guys all suffer from the same problem. You take all the small acquisitions that didn't work out which is exactly BB's team building philosophy for 13 years leave no stone unturned(or in murtls case he will take guys that contributed like Lloyd, Adalius Thomas, Brandon Spikes but say they were busts etc..) and say, {See we told you we should have signed player A, B, or C instead} even though those players were not reasonable contracts to hand out and haven't worked out for other teams.

I am not saying BB only makes good decisions, I also wanted a DT early for 2 years now, I wanted Big John Abraham(an aging vet who had another one of his standard good seasons 11.5 sacks as a rotational player) But the bottom line is we had serious injury problems and other problems.

If we had the 2 guys we committed 80 million to rebuild our offense through(Gronk and Hern) coupled with Dobson, Edelman, and Amendola, Rid, Blount and Vareen, then our offense is wayyy better then it currently sits as the 3rd best offense in the league!

If we have VW, and Tommy Kelly( a great signing) all year with fellow team captain and tackle machine Mayo, and a physical intimidating "Incredible Hulk" Adrian Wilson, and a healthy Talib our defense is DOMINATE.

We have had terrible luck, but still field a team that regularly goes to the AFC championship game. This team is on great shape and while nobody does it perfect, BB is one of the best in the league...still.

This the part I have a problem with is - this was not just "terrible luck" - when you sign and count on old, heavy players to be the foundation of your defense - that don't - that is not "luck"...that is poor decisions.

It was a poor decision to walk into the season with two 33 year old defensive tackles as the heart/center of your D. I and many were calling for a younger player (with talent) at that spot...yet we signed a guy with a heart problem (who never played) and a 32 year old guy who was two years removed from a ACL tear coming off a down year...and what happened? The heart guy never made iot out of the locker room and the old guy never made it out of October before going down with a non contact major knee injury...and the 335 pound other guy (Vince) didn't make it past the 2nd game after his non contact posssible career ending injury. This is what happens with older players...and let's not even mention Adrain Wilson, who looked old, slow and useless before he blasted out his achilles.

This is not just "terrible luck", this poor decisions and it hurt us...again.

Except that Wilson was 1 .3 million cap hit, and Kelly was a 2.0 million cap hit, both players were perfect rotational players in a position of need. It was a great fit, they both just got injured. Your alternatives are 42 million for Goldson a FS who isn't as good as DMC, and 35 million for red bryant a situational run stuffer who had a down year(I would much rather have Siliga for his cap hit). The gap between these 2 options is insane. Our options were safe lower risk options. If we had Bryant and Goldson on the team right now it would add 15 million in cap hit this year alone, and if you think those 2 guys would be the difference in beating denver then I'd love to hear about it.

Yes you risk injury to aging vets but it is a calculated risk of 3.3 million for both guys against the 78 million dollars it would have taken to get Goldson and Bryant. Thanks, but no thanks.