Monday, 18 June 2018

AUSTRALIAN MP CALLS FOR NO DIPLOMATIC RELATIONSHIP WITH VATICAN.

DAVID SHOEBRIDGE MP IS CORRECT AND COURAGEOUS BY SAYING THAT AUSTRALIA SEVER ALL DUPLOMATIC RELATIINS WITH THE VATICAN.
The Vatican has only been a "state" since 1929 - 89 years after receiving that gift plus millions from the dictator Musselini in return for the RC Church supporting him.

It is absolutely crazy for any religion, even a big one, to have the status of a state in these modern times.

Furthermore through its many activities, including abuse, the Vatican is a ROGUE STATE!

That's why they gave Mugabe of Zimbabwe a seat of honour at the Pole' s funeral.

I was very pleased when Enda Kenny cancelled Ireland's diplomatic relations with the RCs and annoyed when it was restored.

For its role in abuse in the world the Vatican should be treated as a pariah.

Typical Church bashing from Pat. Predictable, tiresome soundbytes. All about Pat's supposed, radical, creative renewal! If only! Vengance and self promotion form the basis of his empire - but we are still waiting for the fruits of your "renewal" - nothing has yet emerged of any significance. If you stopped preaching hatred God might work wonders through you. Thank God my parish is reasonably good and vibrant. It would not produce appropriate fruits if I were to preach such boring, negative, self glorifying, vitriol like Pat's "reflections". Take comfort Pat, calm down with the promise of Jesus - "I am with you always, yes, to the end of time". Thank you Jesus for the hope you give us.

What about the Jewish people and Israel. Also the Muslim States. Manure serves a purpose. It helps plants to grow or the one who makes it may have a problem with their bowels. I do agree that arguments on here sometimes go down silly sidestreets which have nothing to do with the main issue

When something is really important then it's Pat's daty as a preacher to be say it repeatedly. "Preach the word; be ready in season and out of season; reprove, rebuke, and exhort, with complete patience and teaching." (Paul's second letter to Timothy) The Vatican's Nationhood status is one of the many factors that's destroying the RC church. For just one example - who is in charge of the Irish Church nowadays? Is it still the Bishops, as used to be the case? Or is it Frankie's messenger-boy, the Papal Nuncio? If you could follow the money then very likely it's the Nuncio. But there are a great many other issues as well. You could write a book about it. But at the same time some of those cardinals (Vincent Nichols, for example) are also diocesan bishops with considerable legal responsibilities in respect of government-funded schools etc.

The current Vatican City State might date from 1929 only, but the Holy See has been sovereign for a LONG time and had a lot more territory than it currently has. Also, Enda Kenny did not break off diplomatic relations with the Vatican. He closed the embassy, but maintained full diplomatic relations and appointed an ambassador, albeit a non-resident one.

I entirely agree with the rationale of Mr Shoebridge's well constructed and entirely proper argument.Opinions may differ on the right and wrongs of any religious organisation having its own nation state status. For may own part, I think it entirely ridiculous and, in the Vatican's case, a historical aberration from less enlightened times.But the thrust of Mr Shoebridge's motion is entirely proper. Why should the Vatican be allowed to use diplomatic immunity to refuse to divulge information about child abuse by the clergy to the Australian Royal Commission? In essence the "Holy See's" response was: 'The Vatican considers demands for a nation state to release this information unreasonable.'The figures Mr Shoebridge referred to surely calls into question the 'reasonableness' of the RC organisation: 4000+ child abuse cases, 66% were at RC institutions involving 10/11 year old children and 572 priests.When I read some of the comments accusing +Pat of RC 'church bashing', I am obliged to wonder at the motivation and thinking capacities behind them.And the words of Jeremiah 5:21 come to mind.MMM

I have to agree with MMM. This is more to do with the actions of the Vatican city State than the Religious basis. The religious basis is an easy target but the context is quite different so the context ought not be overshadowed.

10.02: MMM : You're wondering about the motivation as to why priests or other commentators criticise Pat for his RC bashing! Precisely because it is 'bashing - a full onslaught, sometimes legitimate but mostly prejudiced, biased, vengance filled and an encouragement to harrass, intimidate and ridicule others through social media. If he (Pat) is true to the Christ whose memory he wants to keep SACRED, then he'll have to learn the qualities of moral and spiritual integrity, truth, mercy, kindness, justice with mercy and truth, not his throwaway nuanced soundbytes, respect, tolerance ...All he need do is read the Gospels of Matthew, Mark, Luke and John and he'll discover how Christ would want him to live. I rely on my values from Christ.

While I agree +Pat's choice of words and criticism can sometimes be OTT nevertheless his opposition to much of the RC church's practices as an organisation and the behaviour of many of its clerics is entirely justified. In that respect his role is valuable. Sometimes it is necessary to 'fight fire with fire' when a rational, reasonable and respectful approach is constantly ignored. Was it the Christ of your values who threw the moneychangers out of the temple? I wonder would he have had more success reasoning with them?No doubt you practise the laudable virtues you quote. But maybe other approaches have value: a case of "horses for courses."MMM

Delighted to see the back of him from Cork. Cork's gain is Meath's loss.

To all Meath clergy, prepare yourself for cynisism on a level you have never seen before.

To the Diocesian Office staff; make sure all staff can make decent tea. He will literally ask you if you are incompetent or stupid if you make him a bad cup of tea.

Please also be prepared to be embarrassed if you dine out with him. How he speaks to waiting staff is appalling. What is worse is how he speaks about people behind their backs, he is classist, snobbish and has forgotten his own roots in Blackpool.

The best thing he has ever done is agreed to leave Cork. Thanks for that Tommmy. I'm looking forward to a new Diocesian secretary and so glad that there us little chance of you becoming bishop of Cork and Ross. There will be weeks of celebrating this.

In Tom Deenihan we have yet another desk priest. His statement today was pure complacency. Everything is fantastic, a bit of folksy GAA stuff, no mention of the referendum and absolutely no mention of God.