neither are pbp Spanish produced figures. the rebel commander should be the black boots variant and denger would have a scar . no pbp figure has the entire coo in tact

The only reason i querried as the article i have read on another site mentioned a tash on the Rebel Commander can often be painted longer on the figures left hand side although i could find none of the so called melt markks on this figure but i dont know if this is where i am becoming confused between POCH and later PBP figures and also the Dengars bottom has 4 melt marks on it although i understand also that these few things alone do not constitute and early POCH figure?

Do you get to a stage where you find it easy to identify these things? Thanks for all your help today

Subject: Re: Need Help PBP or Not PBP That is The Question Sun Mar 26, 2017 4:33 pm

you will get better at id'ng variants from other variant collectors , that's how I got better . check the guides also ..

heres some pics to help you out ..

on a side note all rebel coomanders are poch (early production from spain)

dengar is pbp (later Spanish production)

there is also a poch dengar but you didn't ask about him

the rebel commanders with the dark boots are know as black boots rebel commanders , there is also a very rare (theyre all rare actually ) orange boots poch variant as you can see from my 3 poch's here . notice the meltmarks on their asses . meltmarks are only one feature you should look for when id'ng a figure from early Spanish production.. the boots match the scar, mustache is longer on the right yes . differing black boot shades but these are basically whats out there .

dengar produced from pbp later production has a pale face and very dark armor . notice the scar in his leg without the date . I have another pbp dengar but only took a picture of this one as their are a few differing scars on him .. hope this helps ,,, cheers

Subject: Re: Need Help PBP or Not PBP That is The Question Sun Mar 26, 2017 5:01 pm

Your 2 dark brown boots really are dark but look so similar to my chap with the other features but mine has not got any melt marks in his but at all. Same coo, spray apps and face coloration, also everything especially the head gear and scar is under sprayed and he even has the dark paint on his head where it shouldnt be for some reason.

I bought both figures together and the spray work on both looks similar re poor and either under sprayed or just in the wrong place, i had a look at a POCH dengar online and he has the same melt marks in almost but not quite the same locations and the markings are similar if not the same in size and shape. I also got a rebel soldier that again has melt marks in his bum and similar spray issues with some gaps at the arm joints as well, he has the painted white legs, neck scarf with no spray to the inner thigh so when you move his leg its the plastic colour (beige) on the inner thigh with the made in Hong Kong COO. Funnily enough the Hoth Luke with the thinner hips and orange yet slightly under sprayed face also turned up with them and a ginnger bespin luke with weird boogly eyes i mean he looks like a Palitoy but with dark boots, melt marks on the torso, pale hands and the large C 2 line Hong Kong. I will upload some more pics tomorrow as he looks hilarious!!! Thus far i cant find another like him and i have had a good look on here and other sites i mean i can find plenty of ginger bespins but not one with the eye apps, melt marks and gaps in the arm joints like the rebel soldier. You have been most helpful i will upload the pics tomorrow. I have other kenner figures and the lot that i bought just all had something odd about them in the spray work or melt marks. Oh and they came with a bespin guard with a white face, short tash and pale hands who looks like he aint been well lol or like he has just seen a ghost or perhaps saw himself in the mirror

the cuffs on the bespin guard and hands are wrong too. rebel soldier pants are the wrong color , paint mask is also

thats not a poch luke bespin either, there are 5 bespin lukes , i onluy own 2 of them . so im not 100%but the hand color is way off so i say no .

hi i got them ot them off gumtree they were part of a lot and when they arrived they were rough as you can see. i only paid a few pounds for them. Thanks for the advice i do appreciate it a lot i have now found out about a book that a gentleman has written on these figures so i am going to purchase a copy, i went in to water stones on Friday and they advised purchasing online. i am keen to collect Spanish figures and the prices are quite high but i find perfection in there imperfection. It just goes to show how wide the range of variation due to factory error or just quality related issues. i wont be collecting factory errors though unless they make me chuckle. i must say this site is very useful and the subject itself is extensive i really enjoying looking at the recent purchases too. A big thank you for the help as ever

the Spanish line is by far my favorite line as well .. I feel the exact way you do .

javis book yes ... its the best . I was going to bring it up to you but it slipped my mind as I was focused on helping you out .

might as well learn from the best and javi , Sergio and those guys have a wealth of knowledge they've helped me so much / the book is great but doesn't cover every variant .

javi actualy sold me my first 2 Spanish variants a few years back and ive been hooked ever since .they were a luke xwing poch and a bespin guard poch .

glad to help and good luck . I look forward to seeing your Spanish figures as you acquire them .

Any suggestions on where best to look for these figures for price and also confidence? Also had a look at some Luke X-wing examples u mentioned and LOL just brilliant.... literally brilliant great choice, i also enjoy art and draw / did a lot of warhammer when i was younger. I still have the tools and capability to work in a much smaller scale. I was thinking of doing a custom or two perhaps a Luke x-wing with a removal helmet and a luke endor with removal helmet sad i know and i dont like all customs but there are a few figures that should have been done differently and i intend to undertake a few of these

Subject: Re: Need Help PBP or Not PBP That is The Question Mon Mar 27, 2017 6:48 pm

I am confused regarding the rebel soldier. I thought the painted legs variant with that coo, the one pictured above, was Poch. I looked at this forum and then another via Google which led to more confusion for me. The similarities in the forums was the painted legs and the coo, what was different was the left chest patch and belt. This forum, from what I saw, did not mention the latter, patch and the belt, as exclusive to Poch which the other forum did. I googled imaged more and found more contradictions. I also found that in the forums melt marks were mentioned, as I know are a Poch characteristic, but the images displayed seem to not have any melt marks, at least none that were obvious. I am somewhat a novice, and if Orrysmith would have asked me if his rebel soldier was Poch, I would have said yes. I'm confused...Any clarification would be appreciated.thanks

I am confused regarding the rebel soldier. I thought the painted legs variant with that coo, the one pictured above, was Poch. I looked at this forum and then another via Google which led to more confusion for me. The similarities in the forums was the painted legs and the coo, what was different was the left chest patch and belt. This forum, from what I saw, did not mention the latter, patch and the belt, as exclusive to Poch which the other forum did. I googled imaged more and found more contradictions. I also found that in the forums melt marks were mentioned, as I know are a Poch characteristic, but the images displayed seem to not have any melt marks, at least none that were obvious. I am somewhat a novice, and if Orrysmith would have asked me if his rebel soldier was Poch, I would have said yes. I'm confused...Any clarification would be appreciated.thanks

So is Orry Smith now lol It seems there is such a fine line between what is and what isnt, if you look further up the article my rebel soldier has the lopsided tash spray mask coupled with the boot color of the so called black boot poch figure although mine has no melt marks at all so its kind of similar to your query on my Rebel soldier figure, it should also be noted that he has the unpainted inner thigh join on both legs and the legs are the same white colour as the scarff but it does not show to well, also bang on the sprak mask on the badge if you go by other sites is wrong the black bar should be thinner for a start, i too have found certain forums give different info i think Javis book is a great starting point so going to be purchasing one of those

Subject: Re: Need Help PBP or Not PBP That is The Question Mon Mar 27, 2017 10:03 pm

Kenner made a painted legs rebel soldier also, the main difference is the paint used. Kenners paint is more cream/off white where as the spanish figure is a really bright pure white color. The legs and the area near the neck on the torso are both really bright white on the spanish figure. Sometimes it is hard to see it in pics but that is the main difference.

Coincidentally Javi also sold me my first spanish figure, an atat driver. I am far from an expert on the spanish line and in fact quit even collecting them as a ton listed on eBay are actually just kenner beaters and not even spanish.

Subject: Re: Need Help PBP or Not PBP That is The Question Fri Mar 31, 2017 12:25 pm

This whole time I thought I had a Poch Rebel Soldier. I thought the painted legs were exclusively Poch. After your reply, I looked again at the images of the Poch Rebel Soldier. Your description of the pure white legs and scarf/neck area are spot on. Major oversight on my part. Thanks for the clarification.