Ret isnt as bad as people say but i find myself being quite frustrated sometimes. That being said, why dont we have good peels we can slow melee by 80%? we can Bop Casters or we can take 30sec HoJ or repent to get rid of annoying warriors or rogues who want to sprint of when theyre at 10%. If your trying to play ret like a warrior you ARE going to get wrecked if you play it as Support, I.E with healing and your team members in mind you may do better.

OP still has a point about Ret though. Severe under representation in PvE and PvP, though blizzard dont care at MMO-C i presume, posting in official US/EU forums would be best way.

When I saw that they reverted the Improved Counterspell nerf I decided to play my rogue more.

Ret is so vulnerable to casters and silences, even with good heals, that you either have to be extremely good or a sadomasochist to enjoy it. Or just fight bad players all the time, then ret is great.

You really need to be good at watching your allies and swapping targets at the same time to make the most of ret, then you need to play a setup that has synergy. I think other classes have an easier time in that department and don't have to worry so much about keeping an eye on their allies as much.

"These people, Adam, they're like ghosts. Always in the shadows. Always hiding behind lies and proxy soldiers. I need you to find them. They cannot stop us. They cannot stop the future".

When I saw that they reverted the Improved Counterspell nerf I decided to play my rogue more.

Ret is so vulnerable to casters and silences, even with good heals, that you either have to be extremely good or a sadomasochist to enjoy it. Or just fight bad players all the time, then ret is great.

You really need to be good at watching your allies and swapping targets at the same time to make the most of ret, then you need to play a setup that has synergy. I think other classes have an easier time in that department and don't have to worry so much about keeping an eye on their allies as much.

This. Ret is built to help, if you want to be the hero and go solo people, play another class :P

This. Ret is built to help, if you want to be the hero and go solo people, play another class :P

This isn't really true; the problem is the exact opposite. Sadly enough Ret is a pretty good solo spec, and while we are supposed to bring a lot to a team fight in theory, we don't. All we bring is a few very long cooldowns like Hand of Protection and some mediocre off-heals, while other specs bring much better pressure, peels, better crowd control, and other forms of utility. The Ret spec currently makes no sense at all, so save the "you're playing it wrong" argument, Ret brings very little to a group, which is why it doesn't get taken to RBGs or high rated arenas. Our "famous" support is outdated and exaggerated.

The tools are outdated, but instead of changing the spec, Blizz will probably just update the tools. That's why I'd like to see a 4th spec that is more focused and not a hybrid.

I like what they did with Glyph of Harsh Words where you could turn healing into damage instead if you had the opportunity, but Templar's Verdict is still better. You just have the advantage of range with the glyph. If they did that with Flash of Light too when Selfless Healer makes it instant then it would be more like the WC3 paladin and you could be even more offensive, but even that wasn't the best damage dealer and people used it to heal other heroes.

Ret had great hybrid healing at the end of Cata (and midway through too before they nerfed word of glory's cooldown), and good healing at the start of MOP before the PVP Power nerf. It was just easily shut down. That's why I felt that the nerf was unjustified.

"These people, Adam, they're like ghosts. Always in the shadows. Always hiding behind lies and proxy soldiers. I need you to find them. They cannot stop us. They cannot stop the future".

I learned a new word last week (being non-english) and I think it fits the original post and especially the title of the thread.

Hyperbole. And it really never helps, especially when you then make a long post and put your thoughts into it, you are probably taken less seriously.

Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment

... there are lots of different types of players, with different amounts of time to play, and different tastes for the content and difficulty and time commitment they want to give to any of those pieces of content. The person that plays for an hour or so a few times a week is playing the same game as the person that plays five hours every night.....

Blizzard not designing ret the way you want them to =/= Blizzard "stating" ret is a joke. Misleading title that leads to a wall of TLDR. Any class that is exceedingly powerful - especially in PvP - gets nerfed. Either their heals, their damage or their control. Stop being childish and taking 1/3rd of the current design of paladins so goddamned personally.

My mains are warrior/BM hunter, both have been severely nerfed in Mists (Bestial Wrath nerfed changed the very core of the spell after 8 years) and warriors have more coming. I got over it and still kick ass with my classes. That's just the way it is, the way it always will be, if you can't deal with being unable to survive anything and not being able to destroy anything that stands before you (Wrath days are long gone), then you should probably consider a different genre of game.

Ret is pretty awful at the minute, not subject to change as Ghostcrawler has said they're pretty much, "Exactly where he wants them to be right now"

Best thing to do is reroll to something decent like I have.

Last edited by Alenarien; 2013-01-30 at 01:02 PM.

"It hath been found by experience that no matter how decent, intelligent or thoughtful the reasoning of a conservative may be, as an argument with a liberal is advanced, the probability of being accused of ‘bigotry’, ‘hatred’ or ‘intolerance’ approaches 1." - Cranmer's Law

Blizzard not designing ret the way you want them to =/= Blizzard "stating" ret is a joke. Misleading title that leads to a wall of TLDR. Any class that is exceedingly powerful - especially in PvP - gets nerfed. Either their heals, their damage or their control. Stop being childish and taking 1/3rd of the current design of paladins so goddamned personally.

My mains are warrior/BM hunter, both have been severely nerfed in Mists (Bestial Wrath nerfed changed the very core of the spell after 8 years) and warriors have more coming. I got over it and still kick ass with my classes. That's just the way it is, the way it always will be, if you can't deal with being unable to survive anything and not being able to destroy anything that stands before you (Wrath days are long gone), then you should probably consider a different genre of game.

Because warriors are still the top melee in the game? Not saying you aren't good at the game or anything, but playing with Ret compared to playing with warrior is like playing as a kid on crutches instead of the captain of the football team. People do not need to play a different genre of game because Blizzard development scraped by with the ret spec.
And besides, the nerfs that happened to hunters and warriors were more of "fixes" than nerfs. TFB was never okay, stampede glitch was never okay, etc.
And they nerfed big and red because they made it a one minute CD, making offensive pressure insane.

Rets will forever be absolute bg heroes, I realize that isnt top-rate pvp, but bgs ARE PVP.

to get high rated, which i have on a ret, you have to do everything at the right times, you have to play every match flawlessly and KNOW how to play MOP ret. You are right when you say it is difficult, but its indeed possible

"I notice my rating actually boosts when I remember to have fun. Playing competitively while also enjoying yourself and focussing on having good games instead of getting rating is way more important.
After 2.2k the fun devolves into a twisted realm suffering and despair and you will quit pvp from extreme traumatic stress and you will probably xfer to Moon Guard and join some Belf rp guild and become a prostitute in Silvermoon."by Clukclukbewm

Rets will forever be absolute bg heroes, I realize that isnt top-rate pvp, but bgs ARE PVP.

to get high rated, which i have on a ret, you have to do everything at the right times, you have to play every match flawlessly and KNOW how to play MOP ret. You are right when you say it is difficult, but its indeed possible

Sorry to break this to you. Any class can be a random bg hero. Run with a few friends or just a pocket healer, or get queued against a team you outgear extremely, of course you will do fine that bg. Random bgs should never be taken seriously or used as proof for anything, doing so makes you look silly.

Don't post things like "to get high rated, which i have on a ret" without an actual rating number and season you got it in. What you consider high rating might just be average. Top multi-glad rets have all said ret is struggling this season and have rerolled to other classes. A ret can play every match flawlessly and still lose because they are simply outclassed. The outcome of most matches at high ratings is not based on mistakes.

Sorry to break this to you. Any class can be a random bg hero. Run with a few friends or just a pocket healer, or get queued against a team you outgear extremely, of course you will do fine that bg. Random bgs should never be taken seriously or used as proof for anything, doing so makes you look silly.

Don't post things like "to get high rated, which i have on a ret" without an actual rating number and season you got it in. What you consider high rating might just be average. Top multi-glad rets have all said ret is struggling this season and have rerolled to other classes. A ret can play every match flawlessly and still lose because they are simply outclassed. The outcome of most matches at high ratings is not based on mistakes.

Naw you can bg hero ret solo, and the fact that you think you NEED a pocket healer is enough proof that you arent high rated and/or know how to play ret