From martin_jacobs at optusnet.com.au Mon Oct 1 03:35:52 2007
From: martin_jacobs at optusnet.com.au (Martin Jacobs)
Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2007 20:35:52 +1000
Subject: [Brisbane-pm] Need some face-to-face help
Message-ID: <38FC5044-E2E7-45FA-A122-3411AE298551@optusnet.com.au>
Hi Perlmongers,
I have got as far as I can with forums and websearches, and I would
really appreciate sitting down with somebody to trouble shoot some
basic steps.
In particular, I am having trouble installing Perl modules on my Mac
(its a Darwin system, apparently). I have probably goofed up on some
very basic stuff, and I think that sitting down with someone with a
bit of knowledge will get me going in the right direction. I'm not
trying to build anything special here, and I am trying to stick with
the 'standard' installation (Perl 5.8.6) rather than Activestate.
Ideally, I would end up with a step-by-step idiots guide to
installing Perl modules on an out-of-the-store Mac, using the Bash
shell and command line input.
Please email me if you can spend an hour or so with me in a week-day
evening. I'm willing to travel anywhere around Brisbane to suit,
though I live in Camp Hill. Other than my contacts on-line, I don't
know who to turn to for help.
Regards,
Martin
Visit my website...
http://web.mac.com/martin_jacobs1
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://mail.pm.org/pipermail/brisbane-pm/attachments/20071001/86ea84e3/attachment.html
From jarich at perltraining.com.au Thu Oct 4 04:52:38 2007
From: jarich at perltraining.com.au (Jacinta Richardson)
Date: Thu, 04 Oct 2007 21:52:38 +1000
Subject: [Brisbane-pm] OSDC 2007 earlybird registration now open!
Message-ID: <4704D406.4000005@perltraining.com.au>
Registration for the Open Source Developers' Conference 2007 is now
open.
http://osdc.com.au/registration/
For non-presenters, the earlybird price is $275 (until October 14th),
after that the full conference price is $325.
All regular tickets include the conference dinner!
Cool & affordable, right?
Memory jogger: the OSDC 2007 conference dates are 26-29 November;
location: Brisbane, Queensland.
Peruse the overview of confirmed sessions at http://
www.cgpublisher.com/conferences/107/web/session_descriptions.html
You simply must be there, otherwise you're just not cool, and evil
geckos will eat your undies.
Cheers,
Arjen.
--
Arjen Lentz, Owner @ Open Query (http://openquery.com.au/)
Based in Brisbane, Australia - ph. +61-7-3103 0809
Open Source Experts, MySQL Specialists
Organising Committee, Open Source Developers Conference (http://
osdc.com.au/)
Brisbane QLD Australia, 26-29 November 2007
From martin_jacobs at optusnet.com.au Sat Oct 6 06:26:57 2007
From: martin_jacobs at optusnet.com.au (Martin Jacobs)
Date: Sat, 6 Oct 2007 23:26:57 +1000
Subject: [Brisbane-pm] Still no Success in Installing Perl Modules on Mac OS
X
Message-ID:
Dear Perlmongers,
I find it difficult to believe how difficult this has been. Am I the
only person in the entire universe who wants to do a date time
calculation for dates before the Epoch (1970 for Mac and Linux, 1901
for Windows)?
To recap, it seems that I cannot do all the date/time calculations
with the 'standard' Perl on my Mac. The kind of date/time calculation
that I want to do is analogous to calculating how many seconds Queen
Victoria lived between her birth (say 4:00 pm on 24th May 1854) and
her death (say 3:00 am on 22 Jan 1901); the point being that at least
one of these date/times are before the Epoch.
It seems that the 'standard' Perl can't do this calculation because
times and dates before the Epoch simply don't exist.
I have got into some private trouble-shooting correspondence with
some helpful Perl-Mongers, and I am very thankful for their efforts,
but I have come to a dead end. The solution, so I understand, is to
install the Perl Module DateTime.pm. However, I am not having any
success in installing modules (for reasons that I have explained in
other correspondence). We have explored several avenues, for example..
sudo perl ?MCPAN ?e shell
install Bundle::CPAN
or just
CPAN Params::Validate
I have tried changing permissions on directories...
sudo chmod a+rw /System/Library/Perl/5.8.6/CPAN.pm
and even logging in as 'root', and trying everything all over again.
But I am getting the same error messages, which end up follows...
Running make test
Can't test without successful make
Running make install
make had returned bad status, install seems impossible
This is a complete show-stopper, as far as my particular application
is concerned, and I don't want to get to the point where I am
regretting using Perl in the first place. I thought it would work as
a cross platform open source coding language - have I made the wrong
decision? If I have made the wrong decision, then I will have to
consign about 10 months of work to the trash.
Surely, there must be someone out there who has successfully
installed Perl modules on a Mac (OS X 10.4.10)?
I really need to hear how it is done, from someone who has actually
done it. The adage 'there's no reason why it should not work' simply
will not do.
Regards,
Martin
Visit my website...
http://web.mac.com/martin_jacobs1
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://mail.pm.org/pipermail/brisbane-pm/attachments/20071006/e8d69b54/attachment.html
From stephen at sydney.pm.org Sat Oct 6 07:26:00 2007
From: stephen at sydney.pm.org (Stephen Steneker)
Date: Sun, 7 Oct 2007 00:26:00 +1000
Subject: [Brisbane-pm] Still no Success in Installing Perl Modules on
Mac OS X
In-Reply-To:
References:
Message-ID: <4BF77559-6A89-4812-83FB-C8948C045E4E@sydney.pm.org>
> But I am getting the same error messages, which end up follows...
>
> Running make test
> Can't test without successful make
> Running make install
> make had returned bad status, install seems impossible
>
>
> This is a complete show-stopper, as far as my particular
> application is concerned, and I don't want to get to the point
> where I am regretting using Perl in the first place. I thought it
> would work as a cross platform open source coding language - have I
> made the wrong decision? If I have made the wrong decision, then I
> will have to consign about 10 months of work to the trash.
>
> Surely, there must be someone out there who has successfully
> installed Perl modules on a Mac (OS X 10.4.10)?
Hi Martin,
Did you confirm that you do, in fact, have the Developer Tools
installed from
the OS X DVD? Surely there is a more informative error than the
above...
but from Terminal I would suggest doing:
gcc --version
make --version
.. both should return a version number, if installed (and would be
installed
in /usr/bin, which should be in your path).
Installation of some modules from CPAN will indeed be impossible
without a
C compiler ;-).
If you definitely have the above utilities, you can also explicitly
tell CPAN
the location of make since this seems related to your issue, so:
sudo perl -MCPAN -e shell
o conf make /usr/bin/make
o conf commit
exit
Lastly I would run the install manually to see what the detailed
errors are :
sudo perl -MCPAN -e shell
look DateTime
perl Makefile.PL
make test
> I really need to hear how it is done, from someone who has actually
> done it. The adage 'there's no reason why
> it should not work' simply will not do.
Unfortunately the installation should be about this simple:
- install OS X
- install Developer Tools
- install extra desired modules using CPAN shell
If this seems too esoteric for your requirements, I would suggest either
revisiting the ActivePerl route (which also didn't seem to work out
for you)
or possibly switching to a different cross-platform toolset which is
better
suited for your purposes. You might find something like PHP easier to
install .. you would lose out on the richness of modules available from
CPAN, but haven't figured out how to install these yet in any case ;-).
There are plenty of folks using perl on OS X, but in general with
developer tools there is some presumption that you will be able
to work out how to drill down to the specific error that is preventing
your successful install. Getting perl set up should not be a difficult
challenge, but your other attempts with ActivePerl and mucking
about with file permissions may also have introduced problems.
Pretty hard to guess what else might have gone wrong at this point,
but I think since you've spent almost three weeks trying to sort out
your install it might be time to move on to something that will let
you get on with your project :-D.
You did mention 10 months spent developing your application ..
without benefit of CPAN, you might find there is a fair bit of
functionality you've reinvented. CPAN is definitely one of the
main reasons I would recommend using perl .. and essential
for any significant applications.
Cheers,
Stephen
From martin_jacobs at optusnet.com.au Sun Oct 7 02:13:16 2007
From: martin_jacobs at optusnet.com.au (Martin Jacobs)
Date: Sun, 7 Oct 2007 19:13:16 +1000
Subject: [Brisbane-pm] Finally Got Some Success in Installing Perl Modules
on Mac OS X......Yaaaaay!
In-Reply-To: <4BF77559-6A89-4812-83FB-C8948C045E4E@sydney.pm.org>
References:
<4BF77559-6A89-4812-83FB-C8948C045E4E@sydney.pm.org>
Message-ID: <5C3EF345-0118-4841-873A-ABBAB88860BA@optusnet.com.au>
Stephen,
I checked the developer tools....
Last login: Sat Oct 6 16:05:09 on console
Welcome to Darwin!
martins-powerbook:~ Martin$ gcc --version
powerpc-apple-darwin8-gcc-4.0.0 (GCC) 4.0.0 20041026 (Apple Computer,
Inc. build 4061)
Copyright (C) 2004 Free Software Foundation, Inc.
This is free software; see the source for copying conditions. There
is NO
warranty; not even for MERCHANTABILITY or FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR
PURPOSE.
martins-powerbook:~ Martin$ make --version
GNU Make 3.80
Copyright (C) 2002 Free Software Foundation, Inc.
This is free software; see the source for copying conditions.
There is NO warranty; not even for MERCHANTABILITY or FITNESS FOR A
PARTICULAR PURPOSE.
martins-powerbook:~ Martin$
I then did..
sudo perl -MCPAN -e shell
o conf make /usr/bin/make
o conf commit
exit
Just to make sure, I turned off the Mac and turned it on again.
Which must have done the trick because I then did
sudo perl -MCPAN -e shell
install DateTime
install DateTime::Locale
install DateTime::TimeZone
Which ended up with...
Writing /Library/Perl/5.8.6/darwin-thread-multi-2level/auto/DateTime/
TimeZone/.packlist
/usr/bin/make install -- OK
Thanks to all who have taken the time to talk me through this. I
hope you understand that my frustrations are not directed at you
guys, but rather at a process which, as you know, should be simple,
but turned out to be nothing but.
BTW the 10 months is 10 months of after-hours free time. And I'm not
trying to re-invent functionalities, which is why I needed to get to
grips with modules to start with.
Now, I can get back to the math....
On 07/10/2007, at 12:26 AM, Stephen Steneker wrote:
>> But I am getting the same error messages, which end up follows...
>>
>> Running make test
>> Can't test without successful make
>> Running make install
>> make had returned bad status, install seems impossible
>>
>>
>> This is a complete show-stopper, as far as my particular
>> application is concerned, and I don't want to get to the point
>> where I am regretting using Perl in the first place. I thought it
>> would work as a cross platform open source coding language - have
>> I made the wrong decision? If I have made the wrong decision, then
>> I will have to consign about 10 months of work to the trash.
>>
>> Surely, there must be someone out there who has successfully
>> installed Perl modules on a Mac (OS X 10.4.10)?
>
> Hi Martin,
>
> Did you confirm that you do, in fact, have the Developer Tools
> installed from
> the OS X DVD? Surely there is a more informative error than the
> above...
> but from Terminal I would suggest doing:
>
> gcc --version
> make --version
>
> .. both should return a version number, if installed (and would be
> installed
> in /usr/bin, which should be in your path).
>
> Installation of some modules from CPAN will indeed be impossible
> without a
> C compiler ;-).
>
> If you definitely have the above utilities, you can also explicitly
> tell CPAN
> the location of make since this seems related to your issue, so:
> sudo perl -MCPAN -e shell
> o conf make /usr/bin/make
> o conf commit
> exit
>
> Lastly I would run the install manually to see what the detailed
> errors are :
> sudo perl -MCPAN -e shell
> look DateTime
> perl Makefile.PL
> make test
>
>> I really need to hear how it is done, from someone who has
>> actually done it. The adage 'there's no reason why
>> it should not work' simply will not do.
>
> Unfortunately the installation should be about this simple:
> - install OS X
> - install Developer Tools
> - install extra desired modules using CPAN shell
>
> If this seems too esoteric for your requirements, I would suggest
> either
> revisiting the ActivePerl route (which also didn't seem to work out
> for you)
> or possibly switching to a different cross-platform toolset which
> is better
> suited for your purposes. You might find something like PHP easier to
> install .. you would lose out on the richness of modules available
> from
> CPAN, but haven't figured out how to install these yet in any
> case ;-).
>
> There are plenty of folks using perl on OS X, but in general with
> developer tools there is some presumption that you will be able
> to work out how to drill down to the specific error that is preventing
> your successful install. Getting perl set up should not be a
> difficult
> challenge, but your other attempts with ActivePerl and mucking
> about with file permissions may also have introduced problems.
>
> Pretty hard to guess what else might have gone wrong at this point,
> but I think since you've spent almost three weeks trying to sort out
> your install it might be time to move on to something that will let
> you get on with your project :-D.
>
> You did mention 10 months spent developing your application ..
> without benefit of CPAN, you might find there is a fair bit of
> functionality you've reinvented. CPAN is definitely one of the
> main reasons I would recommend using perl .. and essential
> for any significant applications.
>
> Cheers,
> Stephen
>
Regards,
Martin
Visit my website...
http://web.mac.com/martin_jacobs1
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://mail.pm.org/pipermail/brisbane-pm/attachments/20071007/db85f445/attachment.html
From hey.you at mac.com Sun Oct 7 13:22:38 2007
From: hey.you at mac.com (Tony Obermeit)
Date: Mon, 8 Oct 2007 06:22:38 +1000
Subject: [Brisbane-pm] Finally Got Some Success in Installing Perl
Modules on Mac OS
In-Reply-To:
References:
Message-ID:
Martin
Glad to see you finally got some success with your installation
problem. It was similar problems that I experienced some years back
installing the dbi package on linux that started my looking for other
options to perl after having been a strong advocate of it for some
time. The other problem with perl is deployment of anything more
than a simple set of scripts can be problematic, especially compared
to the mechanism and standardization one gets with the .jar, .war
and .ear mechanisms available with java.
So, obviously I decided to switch from perl to Java for any
application other than simple scripts. Having made this switch some
7 years ago, where do I position perl / java. I answer this based on
a similar question put to randal at a recent Brisbane meeting. My
choice of language mostly depends on the complexity of the
application, most simply measured by lines of code.
If < 10 (or 20 at most) lines of code, any language is fine including
shell scripts of various persuasions
Over 10 lines up to 100 (or occasionally 200) lines of code, perl or
other scripting languages like groovy / python, etc but never shell
script. I refer to these as simple scripts.
Over 100 lines then I go for Java. If significant UI is involved,
particularly graphical, then all bets are off with java.
I still like perl for simple scripts but now favour groovy instead
which is partly reflective of my preference for java.
Learning java after knowing perl fairly well was very hard for me but
now I consider it well worth the effort. The package installation
issues you've mentioned just never happen with java and you don't
have to worry as much about breaking other scripts / applications if
you upgrade to new packages in java because it uses dynamic class
loading for a much more flexible arrangement than you have with
perl. Never have to fight with make as well.
I hope such comments aren't treated as unwelcome in this forum, I'm
sending them because I went through similar pain to what you did and
swore never again. Hearing your pain reminded me of the fact that I
don't have that pain any more. Yeah, I still use perl, I think it is
a great language but I consider it's appropriate scope to be far
narrower than I once did. I also think Java's scope is somewhat
narrower also than I once did.
Regards
Tony
From jarich at osdc.com.au Wed Oct 10 22:41:21 2007
From: jarich at osdc.com.au (jarich at osdc.com.au)
Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2007 15:41:21 +1000 (EST)
Subject: [Brisbane-pm] OSDC 2007 Program is available
Message-ID: <20071011054121.5C431A92C2@teddybear.perltraining.com.au>
Dear Brisbane PM members,
Registrations are open for the Open Source Developers' Conference 2007:
http://www.osdc.com.au/registration/index.html
Book before THIS SUNDAY - 14th October to save $50 and get a free conference
t-shirt!
Key information:
14th October - Early bird date
26th November - Tutorials
27th - 29th November - Technical program
28th November - Google Conference Dinner
Royal on the Park Hotel
Cnr Alice & Albert Streets
Brisbane CBD
Queensland
The Open Source Developers' Conference is an Australian conference covering
talks about software development for open source languages and projects;
regardless of operating system. There will be 3-4 streams of talks over
the three days of technical program, with combined keynotes at the start
of each day. Morning and afternoon teas, and lunch will be provided. The
Google Conference Dinner will be held on the night of the 28th November
(each full registration includes one ticket (until sold out)).
Talks this year include:
* "Packaging Perl Applications: From CPAN To Your Project"
by Kirrily Robert
* "Integrating PHP and Active Directory" by Scott Barnett
* "Commercial Open Source with Python: Experiences from the
Trenches: Developing a Commercial Python Open Source Project"
by Juergen Brendel
* "Why would a Java Shop want to use Ruby?" by Keith Pitty
* "Unfair advantage - Taking on .net with a world-beating open
source stack" by Stuart Guthrie
To see more and view the program please visit:
http://www.cgpublisher.com/conferences/107/web/program-detail.html
Conference keynote presenters include Rusty Russell (opening), Rasmus
Lerdorf, Paul Fenwick (dinner), Kimberlee Weatherall, Nat Torkington
(closing), and plenaries by Ian Clatworthy and Melissa Draper!
You can help us make this conference be the best developers' conference
this year just by turning up and participating! We look forward to sharing
this great conference with you.
If your business would like to benefit from exposure to many of Australia's
best open source developers then perhaps you should consider sponsorship.
We have a wide range of sponsorship options, to find out more information
please visit: http://www.osdc.com.au/sponsors/index.html
Many thanks go to our sponsors: Apress, Brisbane PHP, BuilderAU, Common Ground,
Google, Linux Magazine, Opengear, Open Query, Red Hat, realestate.com.au,
Sun Microsystems, Trolltech, Woodslane, Zac-Ware/Freeway.
Jacinta Richardson
OSDC Publicity Officer
PS: There will be a total of 4 of these messages from me over the next
month and a bit. If this is unacceptable, please let me know and I won't
send the others to you.
From jarich at perltraining.com.au Wed Oct 24 20:08:18 2007
From: jarich at perltraining.com.au (jarich at perltraining.com.au)
Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2007 13:08:18 +1000 (EST)
Subject: [Brisbane-pm] OSDC 2007's Tutorial Program
Message-ID: <20071025030818.E5DD1A8B96@teddybear.perltraining.com.au>
Dear Brisbane PM members,
Registrations are open for the Open Source Developers' Conference 2007:
http://www.osdc.com.au/registration/index.html
The early bird has been partially extended. Book before October 31st to
save $30, and to get your free t-shirt. No t-shirts will be available
after the 31st October!
Key information:
31st October - Extended almost-early bird date
26th November - Tutorials
27th - 29th November - Technical programme
28th November - Google Conference Dinner
Royal on the Park Hotel
Cnr Alice & Albert Streets
Brisbane CBD
Queensland
The Open Source Developers' Conference is an Australian conference covering
talks about software development for open source languages and projects;
regardless of operating system. There will be 3-4 streams of talks over
the three days of technical programme, with combined keynotes at the start
of each day. Morning and afternoon teas, and lunch will be provided. The
Google Conference Dinner will be held on the night of the 28th November
(each full registration includes one ticket (until sold out)).
Tutorial attendance will include a tea break, lunch and printed reference
material. Tutorials cost $250 each.
Our tutorial program is included below:
Room 1
---------------------------------------------------------------------
9:00am "MySQL Optimisation by Design" by Arjen Lentz
12:30pm Lunch
1:30pm "Advanced SQL for Developers (PostgreSQL)" by Evan Leybourn
5:00pm End
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Room 2
---------------------------------------------------------------------
9:00am "Test Driven Development" by Kirrily Robert
12:30pm Lunch
1:30pm "Getting Started with Bazaar" by Ian Clatworthy
5:00pm End
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Room 3
---------------------------------------------------------------------
9:00am "Incident Response using PyFlag - the Forensic and Log Analysis
GUI" by Dr Michael Cohen
12:30pm Lunch
1:30pm "Groovy Tutorial" by Dr Paul W King
5:00pm End
---------------------------------------------------------------------
A tea break will occur roughly half way through each tutorial.
For more information on what each tutorial covers, please follow the links
from the schedule:
http://www.cgpublisher.com/conferences/107/web/program-detail.html
Prices and information on how to register can be found at:
http://www.osdc.com.au/registration/index.html
You can help us make this conference be the best developers' conference
this year just by turning up and participating! We look forward to sharing
this great conference with you.
If your business would like to benefit from exposure to many of Australia's
best open source developers then perhaps you should consider sponsorship.
We have a wide range of sponsorship options, to find out more information
please visit: http://www.osdc.com.au/sponsors/index.html
Many thanks go to our sponsors: Apress, Brisbane PHP, BuilderAU, Common
Ground, Google, Linux Magazine, Opengear, Open Query, Red Hat,
realestate.com.au, Sun Microsystems, Trolltech, Woodslane,
Zac-Ware/Freeway.
Jacinta Richardson
OSDC Publicity Officer
From stephen at sydney.pm.org Tue Oct 30 04:03:50 2007
From: stephen at sydney.pm.org (Stephen Steneker)
Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2007 22:03:50 +1100
Subject: [Brisbane-pm] perlmonger catch up around OSDC ?
Message-ID:
Howdy folks,
Just curious if someone would be interested in organizing a perl monger
catchup in Brisbane to coincide with OSDC? Could be a good opportunity
to meet with some folks from Sydney/Melbourne/... ;-).
Cheers,
Stephen