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As entertainment critic Roger
Ebert once said, "If you disagree with something I write, tell me so, argue
with me, correct me--but don't tell me to shut up. That's not the American way."

So we finally get a pair of challenges that make a little more sense: see how well the dogs can dig, then find out how they operate as the temporary leaders of a very rambunctous pack. And then we handed both challenges over to someone who makes no sense: Beth Joy. The results were pretty much as expected.

I can't argue the decision to remove Bella Starlet: she was hyperstressed (possibly something she gets from her partner) and wasn't going to get much farther without risking an all-out breakdown (ditto). Presley's problem was just severe puppyitis: the most important thing was reaching his partner's voice: what other dogs in the maze? And Star's issues were a combination of age and ownership -- of Bill: I don't think she liked sharing him with the youngsters. (Yes, neither dog with the edge could make use of it. Go figure.)

Now, about our panel -- oh dear. They don't like each other very much, do they? It felt like this (and other things) was simmering under the surface since the first episode, and we finally got to see the first steam plumes erupt from the ground. They managed to calm down enough to conduct the elimination, possibly because someone hid tranquilizers in their food -- but we may not have seen the last of this. JD & Galaxy might have originally been bound for the bottom three last night: how dare you succeed with methods I don't approve of! But...

I was really irritated by Laurie's attitude of a dog needs a treat every.single.time they do something good or perform a trick. Not in my house. We use the "Nothing in Life is Free" approach. Also, a resounding good boy! or good girl! is sufficient. (Of course my dogs would *rather* have the treat, they are labs after all.)

Now, I have been bugging my DH for a couple months now about getting a golden retriever puppy. When they came on the screen, O.M.G. I sounded like Sharon. Beebeez!!! Beebeez!!! *in love*

First I just want to say, I would have liked to watch Tillman herding puppies. Especially if he unexpectedly showed a tender heart toward the puppies. Also, good riddence to Beth Joy. Her dog was cute, but

"Belle Star isn't a human being, Beth, it does not speak or understand human speak. You idiot."

Laura and Andrew can go next, although Andrew is a cutie. It would look about right if someone stuck him on a broom stick. He looks like a dust mop.

Also, the dogs with herding instincts performed herding duties well, and others didn't. Big surprise. At least this was a more dog achievement oriented challenge, though.

But mostly I reveled a bit in the infighting between the judges. Obvioulsy the producers imposed a 'Time out' during the commercial break and explained the realities of RTV to them.

They were so friendly afterwards. *Making finger down the throat gesture*.

I've been bird hunting with well trained bird dogs (I had one once that was less well trained, by me) and I've been duck and goose hunting with well trained retrievers. All of which were better trained than the dogs on the show, maybe except for Galaxy. And it kind of irritates me that they portray these dogs as trained.

I think Galaxy is a bit of a ringer, and that the judges are being a little biased against her. How to otherwise explain any critism at all (by the one judge) of her performance. And how (again referring to the judge on the left) can she critisize Galaxy's owner's training methods? First, she only saw the performance, not the training, and second, she's supposed (I thought) to be judging the performance.

If one wants to see well trained dogs, go to field trials sometime. Or watch real herding dogs in action. Or just go duck or goose hunting with a good duck dog. Their owners communicate with the dogs effectively and efficiently, and the dogs perform wonderfully, beautifully. And their joy at doing their owners bidding is evident. Itís wonderful to watch. They aren't just sit, heel, stay, fetch trained.

I really felt Laurie and Andrew should have been in the bottom 3. Andrew was turning and biting at the pups. Not sure how that was seen as better than Presley who at least loved the pups and wanted to play with them. Presley was just a puppy himself so he did not have much hope of winning that one. Just like Star was older and did not want to be bothered by them.

Leroy was the perfect dog for that challenge. He really had the advantage. We had a border collie when I was a kid and that dog without any training would herd anything he came in contact with. It was his natural instinct.

Glad Beth Joy finally went home. Her dog was cute but she was getting on my nerves.

I still miss Tillman. Too bad he couldn't come back for a visit.

And as for training techniques I think at times it does depend on the individual dog. We have 3 dogs and what works with one does not always work with the others. But they do need discipline and not just treats.

ABSOLUTELY!! Herding dogs are going to herd, PERIOD! And duh-border collies are herders! This show makes me just go crazy sometimes!! I mean these judges are supposed to be the end all and know it all about dogs and they can't see that a little dog like Andrew (dang, can't think of his breed right now-starts with an M), is NOT going to herd! He's thinking of himself, like most terrier-type breeds do!Working dogs work! That's a fact! Why Star didn't like those puppies, I don't know, but Bill was FAR from being abusive to her!! She just did NOT like the puppies. Like he said, she'd never been around them, they probably stressed her out with all that yapping energy, and she could feel the stress from Bill, and she just shut down. But dogs can stand a whole heck of a lot than FIVE FREAKING minutes in a maze, before they are considered abused!

I am a die-hard Cesar Milan fan, way before VS ever came on the air, and as much as I like her, she will never come anywhere near what he does with those animals! She treats, and treats, until they get sick, most of the time. Cesar gets down to their level, treats them as if HE were their pack leader, gives them respect and GETS their respect, and what has he done?? He's running a program with 50+ dogs in it that ALL get along, and he uses them to rehabilitate red-zone dogs that would normally be put down. Until SHE can come up to those standards, she is NO WAY the best in the country!! NO WAY!

She got upset at the mention of Cesar's name, plain and simple! She is egotistical, and a maniac when it comes to HER way or the highway, as the other woman said. I think they are a long way from agreeing. But for the sake of the show, they had to fake it and make it work.

> Andrew (dang, can't think of >his breed right now-starts with >an M), is NOT going >to herd! He's thinking of >himself, like most terrier-type breeds >do! >>Andrew is a Maltese. >and is a type of small >toy spaniel - not a >terrier; >but I get your point anyway. >

Yes, Maltese-I thought of it right after I posted, of course. And for some reason, thought he was a terrier-type breed. Mostly because he acts like MY terrier, I guess! Should have googled that one before I went off, sorry!! And thanks for the info!My point, as most have made, is that the personality of the dog first of all, depends on the breed, and second of all, depends on the D.O.G!!! And so much of what happened in that maze was PURE LUCK! Galaxy did an amazy job, and his master knew exactly what to do to get those puppies up to him! Great job! As far as Leroy, I still believe that his herding instincs kicked in, to a point. I happen to own a Cattle dog, and I do know that they nip, but they also have other ways of herding, and it isn't ALWAYS nipping! Sometimes, it's just going back and finding the other animal, and doing exactly what Leroy did, counting and watching after it to see if it's following. I see it every single day with my Cattle Dog vs my Terrier...

As for Leroy, he really didn't herd the puppies. I've seen border collies herd - they nip at the heels of the sheep/cattle/etc. - and I don't think lab puppies would herd very well. Follow? yes, be herded? no.

I think there was a lot of "luck" involved in this challenge - that is, whether the puppies noticed the other dog running off - or if their backs were turned when the other dog left - and just took off after them. Or if like Presley - he just ran off so fast the puppies didn't know which way he went (if Travis had been able to tell him to sit and stay/wait, the puppies might have caught up like they did with Galaxy). I thought it was impressive that Presley went back to look for them following Travis' commands.

And as for training techniques I think at times it does depend on the individual dog. We have 3 dogs and what works with one does not always work with the others. But they do need discipline and not just treats.

I completely agree and I should have mentioned that. Not only does it depend on the individual dog, but also the breed. Some breeds are much 'softer' than others. Most labs will walk all over you if don't train them properly so we're pretty tough on ours when it comes to training. I have no idea what a Maltese would be like or a doberman or a border collie, but I am sure they are all different when it comes to training techniques.

Coincidence that Laurie was having the discussion with JD about training methods and then the judges have the same argument? hummmmmm I like little Andrew (he's cute) but Laurie seems to be a person who must always be right. "Her way or no way" kinda person.

I know my brother was tough with his lab when training him, but I don't think he was abusive. And the dog loved him to death! He could throw a ball and that dog would sit and quiver but never move till bro gave him the signal to retrieve it.

I felt sorry for Bill & Star. The owner/dog teams never know if they will be criticized for trying too hard - or for giving up too easy. I think Bill thought like I did that they would be judged on how many puppies got thru. I don't think it was made clear that the 'process' was just as important as getting them there.

Has anyone else noticed the resemblance between Beth Joy's frown (especially the eyebrows) and Matt from Hell's Kitchen? I think they must be siblings. LOL

It's very possible JD & Laurie had that argument two or five challenges ago, and the editors dropped it into this episode to underscore the panel fight. Maybe we'll get some former contestant interviews after the series wraps and find confirmation on a few tricks -- some of the dog fancier sites almost have to be waiting on exclusives.

KF noted above: how (again referring to the judge on the left) can she critisize Galaxy's owner's training methods? First, she only saw the performance, not the training, and second, she's supposed (I thought) to be judging the performance

You could be right that this happened days before and the judges happened to see it prior to this challenge. that would explain how the judge jumped on JD's training methods and not the performance.

So it seems that we are in for another episode of inappropriate challenges. Or, maybe the pointer will try and flush it, the border collie will try to herd it, and Andrew will go crazy yapping at it while getting treats from Laurie.

I still think Tillmanís reaction would have been the most entertaining. A sniff followed by a nap.

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