Just bought this on ebay and cant really figure out if that is a good thing...

I just bought what was sold as a vintage cinelli. I am a little skeptical because the only cinelli markings i can see in any of the photos are stamped in the seat stays and also because the it is made with Oria special tt 0.9 tubing. I DO know that Columbus tubing bought Cinelli in 1978, but i was wondering if its possible that Cinelli would have made a frame from oria tubing on request? Also the lugs are not chromed, which i believe his always were.....
I am really just looking for any info on this bike, thanks.

how come there's no shot of the seat cluster? I guess cause that's a dead giveaway...It's Italian, but no Cinelli. Interesting that they didn't try to pass it off as a Colnago given the headset (and I've only seen those on real Colnagos, but parts can be swapped). At any rate, it looks like a decent bike, and that's pretty nice tubing, maybe just a tad heavier than SL...nothing to sniff at. Kind of looks like a Giordana (which were contract-built by "unknown") but they'd have logos panto'd all over them. Just ride it and enjoy it as a "mysterioso"...and put some adjuster screws in the dropouts so you can push the axle forward, it'll help that old Campy RD to shift.

Cinelli lugs generally were NOT chrome,Oria was around for a spell being used by many frame builders,the lugs most certainly DO look like Cinelli,why not? Cinelli was a major(the largest)lug fabricator,they made lugs long after they were making frames under the same roof,I really don't think that someone put the fake stampings and there's nothing particularlt telling about the seat cluster.Cinelli's manufacture,in general for twenty some-odd years IS all over the place,fake is not the right word,it just doesn't really apply,they STILL own 90% of Italy's lugs and "farm" frame building out,as they've always had.AND I'm SURE it was CHEAP to buy,I just don't see a problem here.Read some threads on Cinelli,the more you read,the more confused. Why do you think so few lugged Italian frames are currently made?

I don't think that is a Cinelli. The seat clust hasn't really changed in 50+ years and from this picture, it is not Cinelli's fastback design.

Also, the internal brake cable routing is something Cinelli offered in the early 1950s and never again to the best of my knowledge. As for chrome on the lugs, I have seen sometimes yes, sometimes no, I haven't done the research to see if that is determined by a specific time frame or something else.

Cinelli sold lug sets to other builders so it is very easy to have Cinelli parts on a non-Cinelli made bike. What "confuses" people the most is the bottom bracket shell. It will have the Cinelli logo along with a number cast into it. In addition to the cast number, a Cinelli bike will have a stamped serail numer indicating size, production date and production sequence, assuming it was made from 1980 and later. Prior to 1980, the stamped serial numbers meant absolutely nothing.

I found a "Cinelli" on Italian ebay that is exactly like the one above. There is a supersize picture in the listing. I am not very familar with the late model Cinellis, is it possible they changed their design?

The guy that sold it to me swears up and down that it is a cinelli and says that he has had a couple and ridden more. Of course i'm taking that with a grain of salt, so i guess i'll just have to wait untill it arrives to find out more. Thanks for all the input....

Hrm, I am not an expert but I do have a Colnago Sport, a lower end frame made by Colnago aimed at the entry level market. It was outfitted with Gipiemme and it doesn't have all of the Colnago finery (chromed lugs, clover cut-outs, etc) that the higher end Colnagos have but it is definetely a Colnago.

Perhaps this bike is the same type of thing, a Cinelli aimed at a different demographic.

It is not a Cinelli. A lot of builders used Cinelli frame parts but Columbus would never build a Cinelli with Oria tubing.

vjp

Could be, I wouldn't commit to that,that's why I left myself latitude in my evaluations on the bike,Cinellis
are Cinellis in name only,they were involved in joint ventures.The original owner is by and large,truthfull.I don't pretend to know more about that bike than you do,the bike perhaps was born in a "gray area" and will always be there.The color is telling,not just yet,the fortunate new owner may find-out more through other bikes similarly painted,if not that exact color.

that link iab supplied is interesting: it's not *exactly* the same as the pink/black Oria (check the vertical dropouts, the chrome on the chainstay where it joins with the stays to the D/O, and the fork looks like a unicrown), but the seat cluster and cable routing is similar enough to suggest that there *could* be Cinellis that don't show any of the classic Cinelli features we all expect on a "real deal" Cinelli. I'm with the theory that Cinelli offered some "bargain" frames in the '80s and this may well be one of those, Oria tubing and all...there's ample evidence that Cinelli would build to suit even back in the "Cino" days, so there are classic Cinellis out there with no fastback seat clusters or chrome lugs, and even built from 531... but definitely real.