If this is your first visit, be sure to
check out the FAQ by clicking the
link above. You may have to register
before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages,
select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.

This shows that obviously Brady isn't much better statistically in the playoffs than Peyton. Hardly any difference at all. That tells me the difference is obviously the rest of the team. Pretty good stats for a super "choker", compared to "Mr. Clutch".

We won't even talk about Ben, he's OBVIOUSLY looking better because of the rest of his team.

Regardless of the close stats, I know Brady is a better clutch player. His timing is impeccable.

I just figured these stats would be surprising for some, the way they dog Peytons playoff performances, and swoon over Brady's.

Re: Who will give the Colts their first loss?

Pittsburgh can make Manning look average. Palmer still slices and dices through our defense? Why? Because he's better than Manning at reading the defense, even though he's not allowed to call his own plays. Only Brady plays as consistently well against Pittsburgh.

Are you kidding me? This is how you measure players? Like playing Pitt is the only thing that matters. Maybe Palmer just has Pitt's number, you act like flukes like that will never happen.

I guess if this week Vick rushes for 200 yards, and throws for 2 TD's as well, suddenly he's the best QB in the NFL.

Re: Who will give the Colts their first loss?

Are you kidding me? This is how you measure players? Like playing Pitt is the only thing that matters. Maybe Palmer just has Pitt's number, you act like flukes like that will never happen.

I guess if this week Vick rushes for 200 yards, and throws for 2 TD's as well, suddenly he's the best QB in the NFL.

Get real.

Lighten up, Francis.

Palmer's numbers aren't significantly different than Mannings, and he can read a blitz much better than Manning can.

I'm sorry that you guys are seriously underestimating Palmer. He's the real deal, though. I'm willing to predict he wins a SuperBowl before Manning does (*if* Manning ever does).

Why do the things that we treasure most, slip away in time
Till to the music we grow deaf, to God's beauty blind
Why do the things that connect us slowly pull us apart?
Till we fall away in our own darkness, a stranger to our own hearts
And life itself, rushing over me
Life itself, the wind in black elms,
Life itself in your heart and in your eyes, I can't make it without you

Re: Who will give the Colts their first loss?

I'm sure he wants to win... but the scouting report also says he wants to prove he can win with his arm.

Had he remembered to call a few running plays last January, things might have turned out differently. Instead, he played right into our strength because he was preoccupied with trying to prove that he could pick it apart like Palmer does.

If you're going to let him call the plays, and give him credit when he makes good play calls, then his bad decisions as an "offensive coordinator" are going to have to be held against him, too.

Why do the things that we treasure most, slip away in time
Till to the music we grow deaf, to God's beauty blind
Why do the things that connect us slowly pull us apart?
Till we fall away in our own darkness, a stranger to our own hearts
And life itself, rushing over me
Life itself, the wind in black elms,
Life itself in your heart and in your eyes, I can't make it without you

Re: Who will give the Colts their first loss?

Are you kidding me. There's no way I'm going to argue the Steelers' receivers are better than either Indy's or Cincy's. At RB, during the Big Ben era (while Jerome has been in decline) I'd give the edge to NE and also Edge.

I agree about LeBeau and Cowher, though. They're geniouses.

Brady and Manning made their receivers (with the exception of Harrison).

Big Ben did not. Look at him without Randle el and Bettis. Not that great at all. He was falling back on his run game, his defense, and Randle el's ability to be able to turn any touch into a TD.

Re: Who will give the Colts their first loss?

Brady and Manning made their receivers (with the exception of Harrison).

Big Ben did not. Look at him without Randle el and Bettis. Not that great at all. He was falling back on his run game, his defense, and Randle el's ability to be able to turn any touch into a TD.

I don't even know what that means.

But are you seriously trying to look at Ben's first three games after a motorcycle accident and appendectomy and reach broad conclusions about his ability?

That's silly. And if that's your approach, then the KC game was more recent and Ben had a perfect QB rating in that game with guys like Nate Washington (undrafted), Cedrick Wilson (cast off by SF), Willie Parker (undrafted), Hines Ward (a steal from the fourth round), and a rookie that had been struggling (Holmes) catching his passes.

Why do the things that we treasure most, slip away in time
Till to the music we grow deaf, to God's beauty blind
Why do the things that connect us slowly pull us apart?
Till we fall away in our own darkness, a stranger to our own hearts
And life itself, rushing over me
Life itself, the wind in black elms,
Life itself in your heart and in your eyes, I can't make it without you

Re: Who will give the Colts their first loss?

Obviously I'm using some (a lot of) hyperbole here to make a point. "System" QBs - when used properly - can be just as important to a winning team (if not more) than "star" quarterbacks.

There may be a clear-cut "best passer in the NFL". But there's not a clear-cut "best QB."

Why do the things that we treasure most, slip away in time
Till to the music we grow deaf, to God's beauty blind
Why do the things that connect us slowly pull us apart?
Till we fall away in our own darkness, a stranger to our own hearts
And life itself, rushing over me
Life itself, the wind in black elms,
Life itself in your heart and in your eyes, I can't make it without you

Re: Who will give the Colts their first loss?

According to all the reports I heard Ben was 100% recovered from the accident so I don't wanna hear that as an excuse.

And are you really comparing 1 game to a SB and 4 other games of sucking?

"100% recovered" and "having a full training camp" are not the same thing.

Unfortunately for the Steelers, Ben's "training camp" began in Week #2 of the regular season. The fans were probably right to say that Batch should've started in Weeks #2 and #3. Ben may not have been injured anymore but he didn't look ready to play.

He did look awful. But that's not the real Ben R.

And no, I'm not relying on "one game" or even "one season". I posted three seasons of stats way up there at the top. Ben's been ranked #3 in the AFC for passer rating each of his first two seasons. He was awful his first three games, it will take a lot of work for him to rise from next-to-last in the ratings, but I think that when the season ends he'll be back into the top-five, statistically, in the AFC (in spite of that awful three-game slump).

I'd post more if Ben had played longer... but that's all there is to work with.

Why do the things that we treasure most, slip away in time
Till to the music we grow deaf, to God's beauty blind
Why do the things that connect us slowly pull us apart?
Till we fall away in our own darkness, a stranger to our own hearts
And life itself, rushing over me
Life itself, the wind in black elms,
Life itself in your heart and in your eyes, I can't make it without you

Re: Who will give the Colts their first loss?

I agree that he is good, I even said he would be the best QB of his draft class when he was drafted, but it just doesn;t look like he can lead a team to victory with below average weapons like Brady did and does.

Re: Who will give the Colts their first loss?

I disagree. That's the one thing he can certainly do and I think you're placing way too much emphasis on a 2-3 start in which every team we've played is better than every team Chicago, for example, has played.

Lots of teams are going to lose to Jacksonville, San Diego, and Cincinnati this year.

There's no doubt that Brady is in a different stratosphere.

But the similarities between Brady and Ben are quite strong, IMO. They're both just winners that happen to play QB.

Why do the things that we treasure most, slip away in time
Till to the music we grow deaf, to God's beauty blind
Why do the things that connect us slowly pull us apart?
Till we fall away in our own darkness, a stranger to our own hearts
And life itself, rushing over me
Life itself, the wind in black elms,
Life itself in your heart and in your eyes, I can't make it without you

Re: Who will give the Colts their first loss?

I disagree. That's the one thing he can certainly do and I think you're placing way too much emphasis on a 2-3 start in which every team we've played is better than every team Chicago, for example, has played.

Lots of teams are going to lose to Jacksonville, San Diego, and Cincinnati this year.

There's no doubt that Brady is in a different stratosphere.

But the similarities between Brady and Ben are quite strong, IMO. They're both just winners that happen to play QB.

The only difference being Brady actually shows up for the superbowl and makes game winning drives in every game of the playoffs. There is still no comparison. Any QB in the league could have won on the Steelers if Ben could have with a 39 passer rating. He was downright awful in the SB...and as far as I'm concerned, Winners don't suck in the most important game of the year. Even Manning hasn't had a 39 passer rating in any playoff game of his career...and that's with teams in Nickel and Dime packages the entire game.

Re: Who will give the Colts their first loss?

So you're basing all this criticism off of one game, which his team won?

Ben had a 124.9 rating in the AFC Championship game (Plummer had a 66).
Ben had a 95.3 rating against the Colts (Manning had a 90.9 and it would've been lower had Troy's interception not been erroneously overturned)
Ben had a 148.7 rating against the Bengals (Palmer's one play netted him a 128, Kitna played like Kitna and had a 60)

The year before, Ben had a so-so game against the Patriots and we lost. Ben had a 78.1 and Brady had a 130.5. I'm not saying Ben is better than Brady. Brady's clutch play helps raise him from middle-of-the-pack statistically to #2 overall, IMO.
Against the Jets, Ben was shaky in his first ever postseason game as a rookie. So if you want to hold his 57.8 against him, I'm okay with that. Besides, Pennington could only muster a 65.5 in that windy stadium that day (with lots of missed FGs, too.)

Yes, Ben was not particuarly good in the SuperBowl. But he did the QB's #1 job in that game, which is NOT to pass the ball. Its to move the team down the field any way possible.

Ben's stats are a little better than Brady's. Brady's a little more clutch than Ben. Of course I give the overall edge to Brady. But Ben deserves to be considered in that pack of QB's.

Why do the things that we treasure most, slip away in time
Till to the music we grow deaf, to God's beauty blind
Why do the things that connect us slowly pull us apart?
Till we fall away in our own darkness, a stranger to our own hearts
And life itself, rushing over me
Life itself, the wind in black elms,
Life itself in your heart and in your eyes, I can't make it without you

Re: Who will give the Colts their first loss?

I disagree. That's the one thing he can certainly do and I think you're placing way too much emphasis on a 2-3 start in which every team we've played is better than every team Chicago, for example, has played.

Lots of teams are going to lose to Jacksonville, San Diego, and Cincinnati this year.

There's no doubt that Brady is in a different stratosphere.

But the similarities between Brady and Ben are quite strong, IMO. They're both just winners that happen to play QB.

But they also beat a team whose starting QB has since been benched and the other team was missing their starting QB all together (even though that wasn;t the only reason).

Re: Who will give the Colts their first loss?

Yes, Ben should've been benched in Games #2 and #3 (recovering from the appendectomy) and last week (recovering from the concussion.)

I think we've rushed him back onto the field too soon (and I think he looked very jittery yesterday).

But Batch is not a long-term answer and I don't think Batch has what it takes to "kick-start" the Steelers. I think Batch should've been used to give Ben more time to recover, however (and I've said that on here a number of times.)

If Batch didn't play yesterday, there's no way Cowher is even considering replacing Ben while he's healthy right now, and for good reason.

Ben was 25-37 for 301 yards yesterday. As I've said in two other threads here, the turnovers are killing us. Take away the turnovers (which are obviously a huge factor) and its easy to see how this team could get back into the playoff race quickly.

We don't need to change QBs. We just need the QB we've got to protect the ball better.

Dan Patrick is just looking for something to talk about, but its far-fetched. We're closer to benching Willie Parker and replacing him with Davenport.

Why do the things that we treasure most, slip away in time
Till to the music we grow deaf, to God's beauty blind
Why do the things that connect us slowly pull us apart?
Till we fall away in our own darkness, a stranger to our own hearts
And life itself, rushing over me
Life itself, the wind in black elms,
Life itself in your heart and in your eyes, I can't make it without you

Re: Who will give the Colts their first loss?

So post bronco game.. how are we all feeling now? Still think we will lose a game or run 16-0?

Since the Super Bowl is in Miami, it is destined that the Colts and the Bears both go undefeated to insure that the old men from the undefeated Dolphins team get to see their glory season surpassed in person. The winning team, the Bears, will invite them to share the bubbly.

Re: Who will give the Colts their first loss?

Since the Super Bowl is in Miami, it is destined that the Colts and the Bears both go undefeated to insure that the old men from the undefeated Dolphins team get to see their glory season surpassed in person. The winning team, the Bears, will invite them to share the bubbly.

Both the Colts and the Bears have to play New England at Foxborough.

Both games are going to be very intriguing. I think NE will stop the Colts and Bears perfect season..but thats a homerish pick. Just imagine if the Patriots were using the 10 million in cap space that they have...I can't beleive they didn't sign anyone.

Re: Who will give the Colts their first loss?

Both games are going to be very intriguing. I think NE will stop the Colts and Bears perfect season..but thats a homerish pick. Just imagine if the Patriots were using the 10 million in cap space that they have...I can't beleive they didn't sign anyone.

The Bears have to play the Jets and Giants first. I wouldn't be surprised if the Bears are not undefeated when they play the Patriots. Their schedule has been absurdly soft prior to the next month.

And, I think the Patriots will beat the Bears by a LOT.

The Bears are only good by NFC standards. Of course, one of my buddies has been telling me all season that the Vikings really are a good team, too. Well, over the past week he's added the "by NFC standards" disclaimer to the Vikings.

As the Patriots showed last night, there's a big difference between the AFC powerhouses and "good by NFC standards."

Why do the things that we treasure most, slip away in time
Till to the music we grow deaf, to God's beauty blind
Why do the things that connect us slowly pull us apart?
Till we fall away in our own darkness, a stranger to our own hearts
And life itself, rushing over me
Life itself, the wind in black elms,
Life itself in your heart and in your eyes, I can't make it without you