And there's another group of loonies who think that having their
birthdates on the Web somehow violates their privacy, while
living blissfully unaware that companies trade their medical
records like baseball cards and sell other touchy personal
info for pittances.

And there's another group of loonies who pay for goods in shops,
while living blissfully unaware that other people are robbing and stealing.

And there's another group of loonies who actually stop at zebra crossings,
while living blissfully unaware that pedestrians are killed every day.

Sorry, but this reasoning just doesn't stack up to me. If you think those
companies are doing the wrong thing, why would you follow their example?

And there's another group of loonies who think that having their
birthdates on the Web somehow violates their privacy, while
living blissfully unaware that companies trade their medical
records like baseball cards and sell other touchy personal
info for pittances.

And there's another group of loonies who pay for goods in shops,
while living blissfully unaware that other people are robbing and stealing.

And there's another group of loonies who actually stop at zebra crossings,
while living blissfully unaware that pedestrians are killed every day.

Sorry, but this reasoning just doesn't stack up to me. If you think those
companies are doing the wrong thing, why would you follow their example?

Kerry

Names, addresses, etc are so easy to find on Internet using Zabasearch
or the census for 1930 that fears seem almost unreasonable.

Seems like one needs to analyze the problems associated with identity
theft - usually it's about money. So don't make credit card info
available - or SS info - or whatever. Why keep it on the computer?

I'm inclined to think that more identity is stolen through our own
stupidity than because someone included our names and dob in an online
genealogy tree.

I'm inclined to think that more identity is stolen through our own
stupidity than because someone included our names and dob in an online
genealogy tree.

I think you are continuing to confuse privacy and identity fraud. Identity
fraud is not the primary motivation for privacy. Privacy is a more
fundamental notion relating to others not intruding into your life. For some
definitions of privacy, see:

"Across the range of frauds, estimated by the Australian Institute of
Criminology (AIC) to cost Australia around $5.88
billion per year, some 38% of serious frauds involve identity fraud or
theft. In addition to financial crimes, there
is a range of other serious criminality that is facilitated through the use
of false passports, visa documents and
account names, including drug importation, motor vehicle re-birthing, people
smuggling, money laundering and,
potentially, terrorist activity and financing. Tackling identity theft is
therefore a major priority for Australian law
enforcement."

The challenge that the Internet presents to data privacy is:

* the ease with which information can be collected and aggregated
* the ease and anonymity through which it can be exploited
* the ability to cross national and state jurisdictions which massively
complicates investigation or prosecution

Maybe we shouldn't make it easier for the bad guys? Most genealogical
software supports different reporting of the living and deceased; maybe we
should use those features!

I'm inclined to think that more identity is stolen through our own
stupidity than because someone included our names and dob in an online
genealogy tree.

I think you are continuing to confuse privacy and identity fraud. Identity
fraud is not the primary motivation for privacy. Privacy is a more
fundamental notion relating to others not intruding into your life. For some
definitions of privacy, see:

So far that appeared to be the problem - that lack of privacy was a
major factor in identity fraud. So, let's look at privacy.

Name, dob, place, age, school - almost all are published. So, tell me
what privacy rights should a person expect?

Sitat:

The challenge that the Internet presents to data privacy is:

* the ease with which information can be collected and aggregated
* the ease and anonymity through which it can be exploited
* the ability to cross national and state jurisdictions which massively
complicates investigation or prosecution

Maybe we shouldn't make it easier for the bad guys? Most genealogical
software supports different reporting of the living and deceased; maybe we
should use those features!

Kerry

You know, you just reconnected privacy and fraud. Why is the ease, as
outlined above, a problem if no one does anything with it? And bad
guys don't stop because things got a tiny bit harder - they have been
here all along.

So far I haven't heard a reason to not show the basic data for a
person.

I'm inclined to think that more identity is stolen through our own
stupidity than because someone included our names and dob in an online
genealogy tree.
I think you are continuing to confuse privacy and identity fraud. Identity
fraud is not the primary motivation for privacy. Privacy is a more
fundamental notion relating to others not intruding into your life. For some
definitions of privacy, see:

So far that appeared to be the problem - that lack of privacy was a
major factor in identity fraud. So, let's look at privacy.

Name, dob, place, age, school - almost all are published. So, tell me
what privacy rights should a person expect?

The challenge that the Internet presents to data privacy is:

* the ease with which information can be collected and aggregated
* the ease and anonymity through which it can be exploited
* the ability to cross national and state jurisdictions which massively
complicates investigation or prosecution

Maybe we shouldn't make it easier for the bad guys? Most genealogical
software supports different reporting of the living and deceased; maybe we
should use those features!

Kerry

You know, you just reconnected privacy and fraud. Why is the ease, as
outlined above, a problem if no one does anything with it? And bad
guys don't stop because things got a tiny bit harder - they have been
here all along.

So far I haven't heard a reason to not show the basic data for a
person.

Maybe in your jurisdiction. Not in mine. There are definitely restrictions
in Australian on organisations (but not yet private individuals) publishing
such information relating to living people. And this legislation is
currently being reviewed with a view to making it stricter. In the case of
medical information, it may well become restricted for dead people too,
because of the possible interpretations that may be made about the health of
their living descendants (e.g. inherited conditions).

[...] In the case of
medical information, it may well become restricted for dead people too,
because of the possible interpretations that may be made about the health of
their living descendants (e.g. inherited conditions)

Or even just a tendency to die young or live to a hundred, both being
likelihoods that interest life assurance providers.

[...] In the case of
medical information, it may well become restricted for dead people too,
because of the possible interpretations that may be made about the health of
their living descendants (e.g. inherited conditions)

Or even just a tendency to die young or live to a hundred, both being
likelihoods that interest life assurance providers.

I don't understand why this is a problem. Shouldn't a business that
deals in "risk" have as much information as possible?

I'm inclined to think that more identity is stolen through our own
stupidity than because someone included our names and dob in an online
genealogy tree.
I think you are continuing to confuse privacy and identity fraud. Identity
fraud is not the primary motivation for privacy. Privacy is a more
fundamental notion relating to others not intruding into your life. For some
definitions of privacy, see:

So far that appeared to be the problem - that lack of privacy was a
major factor in identity fraud. So, let's look at privacy.

Name, dob, place, age, school - almost all are published. So, tell me
what privacy rights should a person expect?

The challenge that the Internet presents to data privacy is:

* the ease with which information can be collected and aggregated
* the ease and anonymity through which it can be exploited
* the ability to cross national and state jurisdictions which massively
complicates investigation or prosecution

Maybe we shouldn't make it easier for the bad guys? Most genealogical
software supports different reporting of the living and deceased; maybe we
should use those features!

Kerry

You know, you just reconnected privacy and fraud. Why is the ease, as
outlined above, a problem if no one does anything with it? And bad
guys don't stop because things got a tiny bit harder - they have been
here all along.

So far I haven't heard a reason to not show the basic data for a
person.

Maybe in your jurisdiction. Not in mine. There are definitely restrictions
in Australian on organisations (but not yet private individuals) publishing
such information relating to living people. And this legislation is
currently being reviewed with a view to making it stricter. In the case of
medical information, it may well become restricted for dead people too,
because of the possible interpretations that may be made about the health of
their living descendants (e.g. inherited conditions).

You don't have phone books with names and addresses? or drivers
licenses? My retired military ID lists my dob, weight, height, color
of hair and color of eyes.

I carry medical cards that show I have had cataract surgery and have
two stents in case of emergency.

My checks have my name, address and telephone number.

Every medical group I visit has my SS# because it's the Medicare ID.

I could go on and on...

Are you saying that Aussies have no such things? How do you ever prove
who you are?

Sitat:

So, tell me
what privacy rights should a person expect?

Why not ask your relatives what privacy they'd like?

I recognize no obligation to do that.

Disclaimer: I don't record SS#s, or medical info of living people, or
addresses, or visible characteristics. I also don't list damnyankees
from 1861-1865 as part of the line. 8-)

I'll hasten to add that I have never published a family tree. But I
will if I want to and be assured that "living" is not anyone's first
name in my records.

You don't have phone books with names and addresses? or drivers
licenses? My retired military ID lists my dob, weight, height, color
of hair and color of eyes.

Being in the phone book is optional.

Generally in Australia, organisations can collect information from you
within the bounds of reasonableness of the service they are providing to you
(so my local library can ask for my address and phone number in order to
contact me about my overdue books but not my medicare number), but any
intention to give information to third parties has to be disclosed to you
and publishing it on WWW sites is generally right out! Often you get to
choose how they use your information. For example, when I had a day surgery
visit to a hospital, I ticked boxes on the form about allowing my
information being disclosed to my health insurer (so they'd pay the hospital
direct instead of me paying and then claiming back from the health insurer)
and being supplied in anonymised form for medical research (for the
advancement of medical knowledge).

So yes we have ID like drivers licenses and Medicare cards (our national
health system). Some ID is very protected by law. For example, our Tax File
Number is a piece of ID that only certain organisations are allowed to ask
you for (e.g. a car rental company or your landlord or a credit card company
cannot ask for it -- they break the law if they do). Some organisations can
collect it (e.g. your bank) but only for the purposes of interactions with
the tax office on your behalf and not for other purposes, and you can refuse
to provide it (although it is usually more convenient to do so).

Sitat:

I carry medical cards that show I have had cataract surgery and have
two stents in case of emergency.

Your choice, but presumably you don't propose that your healthcare system
should publish lists on the WWW of all people who have had various kinds of
surgery.

Sitat:

My checks have my name, address and telephone number.

Again, ours have our name and bank details but not our address or phone
number.

Sitat:

Every medical group I visit has my SS# because it's the Medicare ID.

In Australia you can be treated for free in a public hospital without giving
your name or any other ID. Of course, if you want to claim on any health
insurance for any purpose, you need to provide your details at least to the
health insurer. Our health insurance is required by law to be "community
rated" for risk purposes -- meaning everyone pays the same price regardless
of their medical history. However life insurance is not community rated --
your health does make a difference.

Sitat:

Are you saying that Aussies have no such things? How do you ever prove
who you are?

Having ID that you present for various purposes and allowing the
organisation that issues it to pass all details to 3rd parties and publish
it are very different things!

If you have the time, read the Australian Information Privacy Principles:

For the really short summary, I think this are the key point of our
legislation:

Personal information is to be collected and used only for relevant purposes
and its use for other purposes is only to "prevent or lessen a serious and
imminent threat to the life or health of the individual concerned or another
person".

Of course our legislation talks about "reasonable" and "relevant" and these
are the issues that get tested through cases being brought to the courts as
to where these fine lines get drawn in specific situations. Is it reasonable
for my local library to ask for my car registration in case they need to
track me down over overdue library books when I am on holidays? Etc.

This is all information privacy law. There is also personal privacy law in
Australia, although generally it is State law and less well-developed and
less uniform. For example, in Queensland, it is criminal offence to
observe, photograph or distribute photographs of a person in a bedroom or
bathroom without their consent, but your kitchen or lounge room are OK, so
peeping toms need to pick their windows carefully! Queensland also has
criminalised "up-skirt photography" in any location.

I don't understand why this is a problem. Shouldn't a business that
deals in "risk" have as much information as possible?

Well, in Australia, no, they are entitled only to have what is "reasonable"
to provide the service. So someone like an insurer would have to have a
risk-related reason to ask certain questions. If you want to insure your
house, they can certainly ask you about open fireplaces and smoke alarms,
but probably not what your favourite variety of pizza is.

In a similar vein, there are credit reporting agencies and so forth to share
information about people who don't pay their debts, but the information they
can gather etc is somewhat regulated. And generally if you enter into an
arrangement with a business that involved any form of credit, then in the
fine print they will disclose that they will exchange some information about
you with credit reporting agencies and debt collectors if you don't pay up.
But again they can only pass on information reasonably required for those
purposes, so if you don't pay your hospital bills, they can't pass on your
medical details merely the details relating to the debt.

You don't have phone books with names and addresses? or drivers
licenses? My retired military ID lists my dob, weight, height, color
of hair and color of eyes.

Being in the phone book is optional.

Generally in Australia, organisations can collect information from you
within the bounds of reasonableness of the service they are providing to you
(so my local library can ask for my address and phone number in order to
contact me about my overdue books but not my medicare number), but any
intention to give information to third parties has to be disclosed to you
and publishing it on WWW sites is generally right out! Often you get to
choose how they use your information. For example, when I had a day surgery
visit to a hospital, I ticked boxes on the form about allowing my
information being disclosed to my health insurer (so they'd pay the hospital
direct instead of me paying and then claiming back from the health insurer)
and being supplied in anonymised form for medical research (for the
advancement of medical knowledge).

So yes we have ID like drivers licenses and Medicare cards (our national
health system). Some ID is very protected by law. For example, our Tax File
Number is a piece of ID that only certain organisations are allowed to ask
you for (e.g. a car rental company or your landlord or a credit card company
cannot ask for it -- they break the law if they do). Some organisations can
collect it (e.g. your bank) but only for the purposes of interactions with
the tax office on your behalf and not for other purposes, and you can refuse
to provide it (although it is usually more convenient to do so).

I carry medical cards that show I have had cataract surgery and have
two stents in case of emergency.

Your choice, but presumably you don't propose that your healthcare system
should publish lists on the WWW of all people who have had various kinds of
surgery.

My checks have my name, address and telephone number.

Again, ours have our name and bank details but not our address or phone
number.

Every medical group I visit has my SS# because it's the Medicare ID.

In Australia you can be treated for free in a public hospital without giving
your name or any other ID. Of course, if you want to claim on any health
insurance for any purpose, you need to provide your details at least to the
health insurer. Our health insurance is required by law to be "community
rated" for risk purposes -- meaning everyone pays the same price regardless
of their medical history. However life insurance is not community rated --
your health does make a difference.

Are you saying that Aussies have no such things? How do you ever prove
who you are?

Having ID that you present for various purposes and allowing the
organisation that issues it to pass all details to 3rd parties and publish
it are very different things!

If you have the time, read the Australian Information Privacy Principles:

For the really short summary, I think this are the key point of our
legislation:

Personal information is to be collected and used only for relevant purposes
and its use for other purposes is only to "prevent or lessen a serious and
imminent threat to the life or health of the individual concerned or another
person".

Of course our legislation talks about "reasonable" and "relevant" and these
are the issues that get tested through cases being brought to the courts as
to where these fine lines get drawn in specific situations. Is it reasonable
for my local library to ask for my car registration in case they need to
track me down over overdue library books when I am on holidays? Etc.

This is all information privacy law. There is also personal privacy law in
Australia, although generally it is State law and less well-developed and
less uniform. For example, in Queensland, it is criminal offence to
observe, photograph or distribute photographs of a person in a bedroom or
bathroom without their consent, but your kitchen or lounge room are OK, so
peeping toms need to pick their windows carefully! Queensland also has
criminalised "up-skirt photography" in any location.

Kerry

An excellent summary and very interesting.

We have privacy laws here but hackers can get anything they wish from
anywhere. I doubt that we have privacy laws that would prevent me from
posting genealogy data on line as long as it was factual and not
libelous. But I probably would not publish any type of info that I
would not wish others to know about me. Vanity and privacy would
sometimes clash.

We have just recently disclosed the future use of an x-ray machine for
airports that can see through clothing. Of course there are safeguards
- the viewer is in a remote location and can't see the person and
private parts are blurry. Don't you know everyone will be honest and
obey the rules! And suppose my crotch is blurred and I hide a
derringer there. And what about the guy who doesn't want to be blurred
- will the ACLU sue for his rights to advertise?

Maybe in your jurisdiction. Not in mine. There are definitely restrictions
in Australian on organisations (but not yet private individuals) publishing
such information relating to living people.

Thankfully this doesn't seem to apply to the Commonwealth Government
as they have the names and dates of birth of thousands of Australians
publically available at the Australian Archives website.

Further, my name, dob and mothers maiden surname was published in the
Sydney Morning Herald and that still happens today across Australia in
lots of papers.

Sitat:

And this legislation is
currently being reviewed with a view to making it stricter. In the case of
medical information, it may well become restricted for dead people too,
because of the possible interpretations that may be made about the health of
their living descendants (e.g. inherited conditions).

So, tell me
what privacy rights should a person expect?

Why not ask your relatives what privacy they'd like?

I asked my father, as his name and DOB are on the Archives site and he
doesn't care. Most wouldn't know.

Maybe in your jurisdiction. Not in mine. There are definitely restrictions
in Australian on organisations (but not yet private individuals) publishing
such information relating to living people.

Thankfully this doesn't seem to apply to the Commonwealth Government
as they have the names and dates of birth of thousands of Australians
publically available at the Australian Archives website.

Further, my name, dob and mothers maiden surname was published in the
Sydney Morning Herald and that still happens today across Australia in
lots of papers.

And this legislation is
currently being reviewed with a view to making it stricter. In the case of
medical information, it may well become restricted for dead people too,
because of the possible interpretations that may be made about the health of
their living descendants (e.g. inherited conditions).

So, tell me
what privacy rights should a person expect?

Why not ask your relatives what privacy they'd like?

I asked my father, as his name and DOB are on the Archives site and he
doesn't care. Most wouldn't know.

In my opinion it almost goes without saying that there are multiple
legitimate sources where data can be obtained.

If one limits his genealogy to the basic data seems like there is
little reason to object to public presentation. Children born before 9
months of marriage is a privacy matter (or used to be) and some ladies
are vain about their age.

Seems to me like we are in an overkill mode about privacy and it will
take a few years to arrive at a concensus.

Thankfully this doesn't seem to apply to the Commonwealth Government
as they have the names and dates of birth of thousands of Australians
publically available at the Australian Archives website.

Yes, I wondered myself about the publication of data relating to those who
served in WW2 on their WWW site, seeing many of them are still living. It
seems to me to be a breach of the privacy legislation. So I asked them. The
response was that the National Archives is established under some
legislation which *obliges* them to collect and make available to the public
certain kinds of government material. My guess is that if we read the fine
print of the privacy legislation, there's some loophole for commonwealth
agencies. But it still seemed to me that even if the National Archives is
obliged to make certain information available to the public, there is still
a big difference between making it available if someone makes a deliberate
effort to come in to the achives to see it and publishing it on the WWW, but
I didn't pursue them on the matter. As a genealogist, their current
arrangements suit me fine, but then it's not my data that's being published.

Sitat:

Further, my name, dob and mothers maiden surname was published in the
Sydney Morning Herald and that still happens today across Australia in
lots of papers.

I'm curious about this one. In what context was that information published?

On the subject of the National Archives of Australia, I just checked the the
privacy legislation and indeed it excludes:
(f) Commonwealth records as defined by subsection 3(1) of the Archives Act
1983 that are in the open access period for the purposes of that Act;

So there is indeed a loophole for the archives, and a very explicit one at
that!

On the subject of the National Archives of Australia, I just checked the
the privacy legislation and indeed it excludes:
(f) Commonwealth records as defined by subsection 3(1) of the Archives Act
1983 that are in the open access period for the purposes of that Act;

So there is indeed a loophole for the archives, and a very explicit one at
that!

And the archives are indeed compelled to make information available to the
public. From the Archives Act 1983:

(1) Subject to this Part, the Archives shall cause all Commonwealth records
in the open access period that are in the custody of the Archives or of a
Commonwealth institution, other than exempt records, to be made available
for public access.

(7) For the purposes of this Act, a record is in the open access period if
a period of 30 years has elapsed since the end of the year ending on 31
December in which the record came into existence. Note: Records containing
Census information, and Cabinet notebooks, have different open access
periods: see sections 22A and 22B.

The exemptions are too numerous to list but some of them are reasonably
obvious, e.g. national security. Personal privacy is not a reason for
exemption. But of course, as I already said, making something available to
the public can be done in many ways, and publishing personal information on
public web sites as they do would seem to be an over-enthusiastic
interpretation of their obligations.

However, I think the reality is that genealogists bombard the archives with
enquiries that are too time-consuming on their staff to handle manually,
hence their enthusiasm to put the information on the WWW to reduce the
workload of the staff. Clearly they make choices every day about what
records they do make available through the WWW; certainly not everything
they hold is available this way. The current policy certainly appears to
include digitising anything requested by the public, presumably on the logic
that if one person asks for a particular record, odds on someone else will
want it so if they digitise it the first time, it saves them work the
subsequent time. Of course, for genealogists, this is a wonderful situation
to have!

The other solution I preferred (I wanted to have something running
in French and I had some difficulties when I tested some CMS) is a
wiki. Wikipedia is a well known example, but there are now many
different wiki softwares. A wiki is used to display pages you can
edit online. So, no FTP at all. You can use a sand box to practice.

The other solution I preferred (I wanted to have something running
in French and I had some difficulties when I tested some CMS) is a
wiki. Wikipedia is a well known example, but there are now many
different wiki softwares. A wiki is used to display pages you can
edit online. So, no FTP at all. You can use a sand box to practice.

Denis

Thanks, Denis.

Is there no way to select a template and just copy and paste my data?
Then at various times I would like to update with additional info.

Everything is already formatted as I want it on Word but I could
easily convert to PDF.

How easy is it for a novice to generate a website like the above using
your web host?

Thank you for you assistance.

Hugh

Hi Hugh,

I don't think that it's very hard at all to create a basic web site but I
like computers and find them pretty easy to use, so I'm probably biased.
Here's a way that you can decide for yourself. Adobe offers a free 30-
day trial of their web design software, Dreamweaver 8.
(http://www.adobe.com/products/dreamweaver/) You could download this
software, install a web server on your PC, and have a go at designing a
site. If you can't get a suitable website up and running on your own
PC's web server within a couple of weeks, then building your own site may
not be for you. If you can get a site working on your own PC, then
registering a domain name and uploading the site to a public web host
will be only a simple additional step. It won't cost you anything to
try.

How easy is it for a novice to generate a website like the above using
your web host?

Thank you for you assistance.

Hugh

Hi Hugh,

I don't think that it's very hard at all to create a basic web site but I
like computers and find them pretty easy to use, so I'm probably biased.
Here's a way that you can decide for yourself. Adobe offers a free 30-
day trial of their web design software, Dreamweaver 8.
(http://www.adobe.com/products/dreamweaver/) You could download this
software, install a web server on your PC, and have a go at designing a
site. If you can't get a suitable website up and running on your own
PC's web server within a couple of weeks, then building your own site may
not be for you. If you can get a site working on your own PC, then
registering a domain name and uploading the site to a public web host
will be only a simple additional step. It won't cost you anything to
try.

I don't understand why I can't select a host, choose the template (a
blank sheet will do) I like frrom a number of them, copy my data and
paste to the template and tell the host, "Here tis."

I looked at the Dreamweaver site and that's a 747 - all I want is to
push a wheelbarrow around the yard.

I have 45 pages of text in MS Word and I want to post it where people
can see it. I don't need pictures or music or pretty screens - just
line after line of text. It's divided into VA and NC and NC is divided
into 3 counties and all other counties. Links to those 5 to save
scrolling would be nice but not essential.

In other words why isn't is as simple as cut and paste the whole thing
right here, Isn't that the same thing?

How easy is it for a novice to generate a website like the above using
your web host?

Thank you for you assistance.

Hugh

Hi Hugh,

I don't think that it's very hard at all to create a basic web site but I
like computers and find them pretty easy to use, so I'm probably biased.
Here's a way that you can decide for yourself. Adobe offers a free 30-
day trial of their web design software, Dreamweaver 8.
(http://www.adobe.com/products/dreamweaver/) You could download this
software, install a web server on your PC, and have a go at designing a
site. If you can't get a suitable website up and running on your own
PC's web server within a couple of weeks, then building your own site may
not be for you. If you can get a site working on your own PC, then
registering a domain name and uploading the site to a public web host
will be only a simple additional step. It won't cost you anything to
try. :)

I don't understand why I can't select a host, choose the template (a
blank sheet will do) I like frrom a number of them, copy my data and
paste to the template and tell the host, "Here tis."

I looked at the Dreamweaver site and that's a 747 - all I want is to
push a wheelbarrow around the yard.

I have 45 pages of text in MS Word and I want to post it where people
can see it. I don't need pictures or music or pretty screens - just
line after line of text. It's divided into VA and NC and NC is divided
into 3 counties and all other counties. Links to those 5 to save
scrolling would be nice but not essential.

In other words why isn't is as simple as cut and paste the whole thing
right here, Isn't that the same thing?

How easy is it for a novice to generate a website like the above using
your web host?

Thank you for you assistance.

Hugh

Hi Hugh,

I don't think that it's very hard at all to create a basic web site but I
like computers and find them pretty easy to use, so I'm probably biased.
Here's a way that you can decide for yourself. Adobe offers a free 30-
day trial of their web design software, Dreamweaver 8.
(http://www.adobe.com/products/dreamweaver/) You could download this
software, install a web server on your PC, and have a go at designing a
site. If you can't get a suitable website up and running on your own
PC's web server within a couple of weeks, then building your own site may
not be for you. If you can get a site working on your own PC, then
registering a domain name and uploading the site to a public web host
will be only a simple additional step. It won't cost you anything to
try. :)

I don't understand why I can't select a host, choose the template (a
blank sheet will do) I like frrom a number of them, copy my data and
paste to the template and tell the host, "Here tis."

I looked at the Dreamweaver site and that's a 747 - all I want is to
push a wheelbarrow around the yard.

I have 45 pages of text in MS Word and I want to post it where people
can see it. I don't need pictures or music or pretty screens - just
line after line of text. It's divided into VA and NC and NC is divided
into 3 counties and all other counties. Links to those 5 to save
scrolling would be nice but not essential.

In other words why isn't is as simple as cut and paste the whole thing
right here, Isn't that the same thing?

That's almost exactly what I want to do with my 45 pages of text. The
pictures are nice. Can you add links to various sections if you wish?
For example why don't you have all 3 sites on one with links?

I have my domain name - can I do what you did on a hosted web site -
much shorter URL? Or must I go through all the apparent shenanigans
others have mentioned?

I actually like FrontPage but I didn't recommend it because Microsoft has
discontinued that product. It has been replaced by Sharepoint and
Expression (see
http://office.microsoft.com/en-us/frontpage/FX100743231033.aspx).
I think these products would be worse for a beginner to learn than
Dreamweaver; plus Microsoft doesn't allow free 30-day trials. In any
event, the reply from Hugh S, makes it clear that he wants something super
simple. If Hugh S. is reading this post, I'd be willing to put your data
on a free Tripod web account for you. (for example
http://schooner11.tripod.com/) It costs nothing but there are always a few
ads added at the top when the page is displayed. You can not use your own
domain name but you can choose the "xxxx" part of xxxx.tripod.com. If you
want me to put your data on Tripod for you, email me the info and I will do
it to help you out. You may even want to try doing it yourself. It's
pretty simple.

That's almost exactly what I want to do with my 45 pages of text. The
pictures are nice. Can you add links to various sections if you wish?
For example why don't you have all 3 sites on one with links?

I have my domain name - can I do what you did on a hosted web site -
much shorter URL? Or must I go through all the apparent shenanigans
others have mentioned?

Thanks,

Hugh

Hugh,

I apologize for the "last minute" input here - my news service
has been down for the past week.

Looking over what it is you want to do, seems to me you might
want to look at OpenOffice (www.openoffice.org). It has a very
nice web "wizard" that will allow you to easily create web pages
and a web site from specified documents - choice of backgrounds and
themes, etc. OO is _free_ and a version exists for Windows. This
is _almost_ painless - you create the site/pages by specifying a
document or documents, clicking on various choices in pull-down
menus, previewing, and determining where the final result will go
(local folder, remote server, what-have-you). Check it out before
you make a final decision.

In article <4583eb60.9301665@news1.news.adelphia.net>,
Eagle@adelphia.net (J. Hugh Sullivan) writes:
snip
That's almost exactly what I want to do with my 45 pages of text. The
pictures are nice. Can you add links to various sections if you wish?
For example why don't you have all 3 sites on one with links?

I have my domain name - can I do what you did on a hosted web site -
much shorter URL? Or must I go through all the apparent shenanigans
others have mentioned?

Thanks,

Hugh

Hugh,

I apologize for the "last minute" input here - my news service
has been down for the past week.

Looking over what it is you want to do, seems to me you might
want to look at OpenOffice (www.openoffice.org). It has a very
nice web "wizard" that will allow you to easily create web pages
and a web site from specified documents - choice of backgrounds and
themes, etc. OO is _free_ and a version exists for Windows. This
is _almost_ painless - you create the site/pages by specifying a
document or documents, clicking on various choices in pull-down
menus, previewing, and determining where the final result will go
(local folder, remote server, what-have-you). Check it out before
you make a final decision.

I actually like FrontPage but I didn't recommend it because Microsoft has
discontinued that product. It has been replaced by Sharepoint and
Expression (see
http://office.microsoft.com/en-us/frontpage/FX100743231033.aspx).
I think these products would be worse for a beginner to learn than
Dreamweaver; plus Microsoft doesn't allow free 30-day trials. In any
event, the reply from Hugh S, makes it clear that he wants something super
simple. If Hugh S. is reading this post, I'd be willing to put your data
on a free Tripod web account for you. (for example
http://schooner11.tripod.com/) It costs nothing but there are always a few
ads added at the top when the page is displayed. You can not use your own
domain name but you can choose the "xxxx" part of xxxx.tripod.com. If you
want me to put your data on Tripod for you, email me the info and I will do
it to help you out. You may even want to try doing it yourself. It's
pretty simple.

I really appreciate the offer. I've already paid way too much for a
domain name so I guess I ought to use it.

I may be getting to the point where I need to know more about web
sites and hosting instead of just copying and pasting. Once I start
I'll probably want to do a few things that take a bit of study anyhow.
The easy way out may not be the best way.

I really appreciate the offer. I've already paid way too much for a
domain name so I guess I ought to use it.

You're welcome. Domain names should not cost that much. I register most
of mine at http://www.godaddy.com/. They are currently selling domain
names to new customers for US$1.99 each for one year. They usually run
between US$5 to US$10 per year. I hope you didn't pay a lot more than
this. Good luck.

I really appreciate the offer. I've already paid way too much for a
domain name so I guess I ought to use it.

You're welcome. Domain names should not cost that much. I register most
of mine at http://www.godaddy.com/. They are currently selling domain
names to new customers for US$1.99 each for one year. They usually run
between US$5 to US$10 per year. I hope you didn't pay a lot more than
this. Good luck.

I paid $34. I don't mind being naive, I hate being stupid.

I don't sweat that too much (this year) but they want $11 per nonth
for hosting.

And like I say the expense will be out of my pocket because I don't
expect to recoup anything - just a service to Sullivan researchers.

Ouch. Ah well. "stupid" would be if you did it again, the first time
is just ignorance.

Sitat:

I don't sweat that too much (this year) but they want $11 per nonth
for hosting.

That's about double what it should be for a hobbyist site on a solid
server. You can host _anywhere_, you don't have to stay with
the people you registered with. I can help you find very affordable
hosting (hint...) drop me an email if you'd like.

Sitat:

And like I say the expense will be out of my pocket because I don't
expect to recoup anything - just a service to Sullivan researchers.

I actually like FrontPage but I didn't recommend it because Microsoft has
discontinued that product. It has been replaced by Sharepoint and
Expression (see
http://office.microsoft.com/en-us/frontpage/FX100743231033.aspx).
I think these products would be worse for a beginner to learn than
Dreamweaver; plus Microsoft doesn't allow free 30-day trials. In any
event, the reply from Hugh S, makes it clear that he wants something super
simple. If Hugh S. is reading this post, I'd be willing to put your data
on a free Tripod web account for you. (for example
http://schooner11.tripod.com/) It costs nothing but there are always a
few
ads added at the top when the page is displayed. You can not use your own
domain name but you can choose the "xxxx" part of xxxx.tripod.com. If you
want me to put your data on Tripod for you, email me the info and I will
do
it to help you out. You may even want to try doing it yourself. It's
pretty simple.

How easy is it for a novice to generate a website like the above using
your web host?

Thank you for you assistance.

Hugh

Hi Hugh,

I don't think that it's very hard at all to create a basic web site but I
like computers and find them pretty easy to use, so I'm probably biased.
Here's a way that you can decide for yourself. Adobe offers a free 30-
day trial of their web design software, Dreamweaver 8.
(http://www.adobe.com/products/dreamweaver/) You could download this
software, install a web server on your PC, and have a go at designing a
site. If you can't get a suitable website up and running on your own
PC's web server within a couple of weeks, then building your own site may
not be for you. If you can get a site working on your own PC, then
registering a domain name and uploading the site to a public web host
will be only a simple additional step. It won't cost you anything to
try. :)

I don't understand why I can't select a host, choose the template (a
blank sheet will do) I like frrom a number of them, copy my data and
paste to the template and tell the host, "Here tis."

I looked at the Dreamweaver site and that's a 747 - all I want is to
push a wheelbarrow around the yard.

I have 45 pages of text in MS Word and I want to post it where people
can see it. I don't need pictures or music or pretty screens - just
line after line of text. It's divided into VA and NC and NC is divided
into 3 counties and all other counties. Links to those 5 to save
scrolling would be nice but not essential.

In other words why isn't is as simple as cut and paste the whole thing
right here, Isn't that the same thing?

That's almost exactly what I want to do with my 45 pages of text. The
pictures are nice. Can you add links to various sections if you wish?
For example why don't you have all 3 sites on one with links?

I have my domain name - can I do what you did on a hosted web site -
much shorter URL? Or must I go through all the apparent shenanigans
others have mentioned?

I am soon 71
when I die who will pay for a hosted site?
so the rootsweb frebie is paid for by ancestry subscribers

How easy is it for a novice to generate a website like the above using
your web host?

Thank you for you assistance.

Hugh

Hi Hugh,

I don't think that it's very hard at all to create a basic web site but I
like computers and find them pretty easy to use, so I'm probably biased.
Here's a way that you can decide for yourself. Adobe offers a free 30-
day trial of their web design software, Dreamweaver 8.
(http://www.adobe.com/products/dreamweaver/) You could download this
software, install a web server on your PC, and have a go at designing a
site. If you can't get a suitable website up and running on your own
PC's web server within a couple of weeks, then building your own site may
not be for you. If you can get a site working on your own PC, then
registering a domain name and uploading the site to a public web host
will be only a simple additional step. It won't cost you anything to
try. :)

I don't understand why I can't select a host, choose the template (a
blank sheet will do) I like frrom a number of them, copy my data and
paste to the template and tell the host, "Here tis."

I looked at the Dreamweaver site and that's a 747 - all I want is to
push a wheelbarrow around the yard.

I have 45 pages of text in MS Word and I want to post it where people
can see it. I don't need pictures or music or pretty screens - just
line after line of text. It's divided into VA and NC and NC is divided
into 3 counties and all other counties. Links to those 5 to save
scrolling would be nice but not essential.

In other words why isn't is as simple as cut and paste the whole thing
right here, Isn't that the same thing?

Thank you,

Hugh

At the risk of being too simple-minded to live, is there
something wrong with the "publish to web" link under FILE in
your vers of Word?

I have just downloaded Expression and got a 60 day free trial from the
Microsoft Update Subscription I have
I just copied the URL and it has a family identifier in it so wont put
it here

You may have to have Office but I dont think so as it was on a generic
update email
195M to download and it works fine.

Now to work out how it works

Helen Castle
Narangba Qld 4504

I use Office 20000 Professional, which included FrontPage 2000. I can not
find any way to download a free trial of Expression. I'd love it if you
can point me to a public link that will allow me to download a trail copy.
Thanks.

I have just downloaded Expression and got a 60 day free trial from the
Microsoft Update Subscription I have
I just copied the URL and it has a family identifier in it so wont put
it here

You may have to have Office but I dont think so as it was on a generic
update email
195M to download and it works fine.

Now to work out how it works

Helen Castle
Narangba Qld 4504

I use Office 20000 Professional, which included FrontPage 2000. I can not
find any way to download a free trial of Expression. I'd love it if you
can point me to a public link that will allow me to download a trail copy.
Thanks.

How easy is it for a novice to generate a website like the above using
your web host?

Thank you for you assistance.

Hugh

Hi Hugh,

I don't think that it's very hard at all to create a basic web site but I
like computers and find them pretty easy to use, so I'm probably biased.
Here's a way that you can decide for yourself. Adobe offers a free 30-
day trial of their web design software, Dreamweaver 8.
(http://www.adobe.com/products/dreamweaver/) You could download this
software, install a web server on your PC, and have a go at designing a
site. If you can't get a suitable website up and running on your own
PC's web server within a couple of weeks, then building your own site may
not be for you. If you can get a site working on your own PC, then
registering a domain name and uploading the site to a public web host
will be only a simple additional step. It won't cost you anything to
try. :)

I don't understand why I can't select a host, choose the template (a
blank sheet will do) I like frrom a number of them, copy my data and
paste to the template and tell the host, "Here tis."

I looked at the Dreamweaver site and that's a 747 - all I want is to
push a wheelbarrow around the yard.

I have 45 pages of text in MS Word and I want to post it where people
can see it. I don't need pictures or music or pretty screens - just
line after line of text. It's divided into VA and NC and NC is divided
into 3 counties and all other counties. Links to those 5 to save
scrolling would be nice but not essential.

In other words why isn't is as simple as cut and paste the whole thing
right here, Isn't that the same thing?

Thank you,

Hugh

At the risk of being too simple-minded to live, is there
something wrong with the "publish to web" link under FILE in
your vers of Word?

Cheryl

I've been working on that this afternoon. It's pretty simple to C & P
the data but I haven't figured how the hyperlinks work and how to
edit. It's easy to get something up on the browser.

Thank you, Helen. I guess I was getting confused because I didn't realize
that Expression and iView MediaPro 3 are the same product. The download
link is to Iview and I was getting lost. Thanks for the help.

Using a blog, how does one use hyperlinks to go to other pages or
sites. Is there a FAQ site and/or practice site?

With a blog, you have a "edit page then publish" kind of thinking. You
don't need to write the HTML, the application takes care of that for you
and you just concentrate on the content, it handles the formatting. A
wiki gives you even faster interaction with your content, see
http://www.wikipedia.org for a hugely successful example. There are
other applications out there called "content management systems", Mambo
is one, but from what I've found for myself, learning how to do
something in one of those is more work than trying to do it in plain
HTML. I'm sure it's one of those learning curve things, but it's
definately not something for the person who wants to just write the
content, hit "publish", and get on with the next page. A blog or wiki
is the fastest, blog might be best for a site which is a
create-publish-share kind of content.

Sitat:

As far as keeping the site up after I'm gone, I suspect several people
would jump at the chance. If I use a pay site they could always switch
to blog.
Can a blog be used on a host site or must one use the templates?

Many hosting providers can install a blog for you and configure it the
way you want it. If they use the standard architecture of "LAMP"
(Linux/Apache/MySQL/PHP), your blog will be portable across any hosting
provider. Also, if you pick one of the popular ones (WordPress is one
of those), you can export the data for backup and portability. That
way, you can share the whole site with someone else as an entity, or
they can run a mirror site, or they can host it elsewhere, and so on.

The other way would be to write it as raw HTML, which I have been doing
for a long time but have started getting away from. My HTML is just not
that pretty, to be honest, I get the content out there but it just
doesn't have the look that people are looking for. OK, they look like
they're from 1995, is what I'm saying; not surprising since I haven't
learned much HTML since then. Benefits of a raw HTML site, though, are
that you don't need to have a database or PHP installed (see above re:
LAMP) so it's even more portable and you can throw the whole site onto a
CD to mail to relatives if you want. Like anything else there's
tradeoffs to everything.

Would it be useful to the group if I'd set up a few demo sites of the
above? This is the sort of thing that I do; I am trying to do this in a
way that provides value to the conversation without the appearance of
spamming, because that is most certainly not my intent, as anyone knows
me any length of time would know.

Using a blog, how does one use hyperlinks to go to other pages or
sites. Is there a FAQ site and/or practice site?

With a blog, you have a "edit page then publish" kind of thinking. You
don't need to write the HTML, the application takes care of that for you
and you just concentrate on the content, it handles the formatting. A
wiki gives you even faster interaction with your content, see
http://www.wikipedia.org for a hugely successful example. There are
other applications out there called "content management systems", Mambo
is one, but from what I've found for myself, learning how to do
something in one of those is more work than trying to do it in plain
HTML. I'm sure it's one of those learning curve things, but it's
definately not something for the person who wants to just write the
content, hit "publish", and get on with the next page. A blog or wiki
is the fastest, blog might be best for a site which is a
create-publish-share kind of content.

As far as keeping the site up after I'm gone, I suspect several people
would jump at the chance. If I use a pay site they could always switch
to blog.
Can a blog be used on a host site or must one use the templates?

Many hosting providers can install a blog for you and configure it the
way you want it. If they use the standard architecture of "LAMP"
(Linux/Apache/MySQL/PHP), your blog will be portable across any hosting
provider. Also, if you pick one of the popular ones (WordPress is one
of those), you can export the data for backup and portability. That
way, you can share the whole site with someone else as an entity, or
they can run a mirror site, or they can host it elsewhere, and so on.

The other way would be to write it as raw HTML, which I have been doing
for a long time but have started getting away from. My HTML is just not
that pretty, to be honest, I get the content out there but it just
doesn't have the look that people are looking for. OK, they look like
they're from 1995, is what I'm saying; not surprising since I haven't
learned much HTML since then. Benefits of a raw HTML site, though, are
that you don't need to have a database or PHP installed (see above re:
LAMP) so it's even more portable and you can throw the whole site onto a
CD to mail to relatives if you want. Like anything else there's
tradeoffs to everything.

Would it be useful to the group if I'd set up a few demo sites of the
above? This is the sort of thing that I do; I am trying to do this in a
way that provides value to the conversation without the appearance of
spamming, because that is most certainly not my intent, as anyone knows
me any length of time would know.

Dave

I'm trying to get away from portability. I want the people to see and
use but not copy the whole thing. I want it to be the central and only
point for this kind of data on the Sullivan line. Everything in one
spot and everyone shares. I want to be the sole editor. Since I'm
funding the project I hope people understand.

A lot of it is my research and a lot is from others. But I'm probably
the only one who ever took the time to organize all facts in this
manner. I've always been an organized nut. That's why I only have one
room, a bed and a closet plus use of one bathroom in this house - my
spouse doesn't want to be organized.

I can only speak for myself but I think an instructional site would be
helpful. I view it as little different from people referring us to
sites and that has been very helpful to me. With the apparent ease of
using blogs hosts may get overrun with business.

The down side might be if people started making suggestions or the
news group was filled with posts about the site - it could get
commercial but they could go to e-mail as we did.

I'm trying to get away from portability. I want the people to see and
use but not copy the whole thing.

From a technical standpoint, if they can display it, they can save it.
Doesn't mean you want to or should just post a downloadable GEDCOM or
editable documents. What I was saying about portability was more of so
that if you want to change hosting providers, you can pick it up and
move it without having to jump through hoops.

Sitat:

I want it to be the central and only
point for this kind of data on the Sullivan line. Everything in one
spot and everyone shares. I want to be the sole editor. Since I'm
funding the project I hope people understand.

Sounds like a blog would be good then - people can contribute but you
can set yourself up as the moderator or editor, so only you can publish
the content. It also lets you worry about the content and not have to
sit down and learn frontpage or whatever web software, things like the
WordPress blogging software are just like writing in MS word, formatting
icons & all that sort of thing. "click here to add a link", and so on.

Sitat:

I can only speak for myself but I think an instructional site would be
helpful. I view it as little different from people referring us to
sites and that has been very helpful to me. With the apparent ease of
using blogs hosts may get overrun with business.

Sitat:

The down side might be if people started making suggestions or the
news group was filled with posts about the site - it could get
commercial but they could go to e-mail as we did.

I'm open to suggestions. But the methods of using a blog for a
genealogy site are definately on-topic, and I don't see any need to make
it into a commercial. If someone asks me about hosting I'll tell 'em
what I can do, but that's not what the group is for.

The only downside to a demo blog is in vandalism / spammers getting
ahold of it. So again we're back to "I have a demo blog site you can
play with, email me for a password, oh by the way I sell a service"
which again gets us into that grey area, and on the side of it I don't
want to be on. I'm not sure there's an answer. I'm uncomfortable even
with this post, to be honest.

I dunno. Let's just talk about how to use one; I'll set up a demo site
and if people want to go from there, great. Maybe just a link on the
demo site saying "sponsored by (name)" that they can click on if they
want.

I'm trying to get away from portability. I want the people to see and
use but not copy the whole thing.

From a technical standpoint, if they can display it, they can save it.
Doesn't mean you want to or should just post a downloadable GEDCOM or
editable documents. What I was saying about portability was more of so
that if you want to change hosting providers, you can pick it up and
move it without having to jump through hoops.

I want it to be the central and only
point for this kind of data on the Sullivan line. Everything in one
spot and everyone shares. I want to be the sole editor. Since I'm
funding the project I hope people understand.

Sounds like a blog would be good then - people can contribute but you
can set yourself up as the moderator or editor, so only you can publish
the content. It also lets you worry about the content and not have to
sit down and learn frontpage or whatever web software, things like the
WordPress blogging software are just like writing in MS word, formatting
icons & all that sort of thing. "click here to add a link", and so on.

I can only speak for myself but I think an instructional site would be
helpful. I view it as little different from people referring us to
sites and that has been very helpful to me. With the apparent ease of
using blogs hosts may get overrun with business.

The down side might be if people started making suggestions or the
news group was filled with posts about the site - it could get
commercial but they could go to e-mail as we did.

I'm open to suggestions. But the methods of using a blog for a
genealogy site are definately on-topic, and I don't see any need to make
it into a commercial. If someone asks me about hosting I'll tell 'em
what I can do, but that's not what the group is for.

The only downside to a demo blog is in vandalism / spammers getting
ahold of it. So again we're back to "I have a demo blog site you can
play with, email me for a password, oh by the way I sell a service"
which again gets us into that grey area, and on the side of it I don't
want to be on. I'm not sure there's an answer. I'm uncomfortable even
with this post, to be honest.

As long as you are uncomfortable with how a post might be acccepted I
suspect you will stay within limits. Emphasizing educational and
avoiding commercial seems to be the ticket.

Hugh

Sitat:

I dunno. Let's just talk about how to use one; I'll set up a demo site
and if people want to go from there, great. Maybe just a link on the
demo site saying "sponsored by (name)" that they can click on if they
want.

For what it's worth, I think this deceased equine has been thoroughly
beaten. Not that I'm unsympathetic to your desires regarding
publishing and protecting your Sullivan material, just that the
discussion always circles back to the basic fact that if they can
see it, they can copy it in some means or manner and there's not a
damn thing you can do to prevent that.

You can make it more difficult, surely - throwing up graphic images,
for example, slows down those who'd republish your material unattributed
by adding extra steps.

You can protect your material through "obscurity" - e.g., publishing
only a list of what's available and asking folks to contact you for
specific material. You can choose whether to grant the request after
checking their bona fides through whatever mechanism you wish - perhaps
requiring referrals by two known/previously "registered" Sullivan
researchers.

You can publish everything but secure it via a password protection
scheme. I understand why you might not wish to do this, but it isn't
rocket science and not an unmanageable burden on you or the site admin
if not you.

There are many other possibilities that come to mind, bun not a one of
them satisfy your basic desire to keep folks from copying what's
displayed. Even if they cannot directly download your material, all
they have to do to capture your information is to do a screen print.
From there, it's a matter of OCR or "fat fingering" the material into
their own wordprocessor.

I'm sorry to be so completely negative here, but continuing to circle
Robin Hood's barn will NOT produce a different answer. You must
determine an acceptable level of exposure/risk and pick a solution
that allows you to achieve that. But you cannot now completely protect
your data short of not publishing it at all.

Using a blog, how does one use hyperlinks to go to other pages or
sites. Is there a FAQ site and/or practice site?

With a blog, you have a "edit page then publish" kind of thinking. You
don't need to write the HTML, the application takes care of that for you
and you just concentrate on the content, it handles the formatting. A
wiki gives you even faster interaction with your content, see
http://www.wikipedia.org for a hugely successful example. There are
other applications out there called "content management systems", Mambo
is one, but from what I've found for myself, learning how to do
something in one of those is more work than trying to do it in plain
HTML. I'm sure it's one of those learning curve things, but it's
definately not something for the person who wants to just write the
content, hit "publish", and get on with the next page. A blog or wiki
is the fastest, blog might be best for a site which is a
create-publish-share kind of content.

As far as keeping the site up after I'm gone, I suspect several people
would jump at the chance. If I use a pay site they could always switch
to blog.
Can a blog be used on a host site or must one use the templates?

Many hosting providers can install a blog for you and configure it the
way you want it. If they use the standard architecture of "LAMP"
(Linux/Apache/MySQL/PHP), your blog will be portable across any hosting
provider. Also, if you pick one of the popular ones (WordPress is one
of those), you can export the data for backup and portability. That
way, you can share the whole site with someone else as an entity, or
they can run a mirror site, or they can host it elsewhere, and so on.

The other way would be to write it as raw HTML, which I have been doing
for a long time but have started getting away from. My HTML is just not
that pretty, to be honest, I get the content out there but it just
doesn't have the look that people are looking for. OK, they look like
they're from 1995, is what I'm saying; not surprising since I haven't
learned much HTML since then. Benefits of a raw HTML site, though, are
that you don't need to have a database or PHP installed (see above re:
LAMP) so it's even more portable and you can throw the whole site onto a
CD to mail to relatives if you want. Like anything else there's
tradeoffs to everything.

Would it be useful to the group if I'd set up a few demo sites of the
above? This is the sort of thing that I do; I am trying to do this in a
way that provides value to the conversation without the appearance of
spamming, because that is most certainly not my intent, as anyone knows
me any length of time would know.

Dave

I'm trying to get away from portability. I want the people to see and
use but not copy the whole thing. I want it to be the central and only
point for this kind of data on the Sullivan line. Everything in one
spot and everyone shares. I want to be the sole editor. Since I'm
funding the project I hope people understand.

A lot of it is my research and a lot is from others. But I'm probably
the only one who ever took the time to organize all facts in this
manner. I've always been an organized nut. That's why I only have one
room, a bed and a closet plus use of one bathroom in this house - my
spouse doesn't want to be organized.

I can only speak for myself but I think an instructional site would be
helpful. I view it as little different from people referring us to
sites and that has been very helpful to me. With the apparent ease of
using blogs hosts may get overrun with business.

The down side might be if people started making suggestions or the
news group was filled with posts about the site - it could get
commercial but they could go to e-mail as we did.