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Re: We really did upgrade the bench

Re: We really did upgrade the bench

I like our core a lot up until 8 players.
The rest not so much but I'm totally fine with Hansbrough and Stephenson getting their last chance to prove themselves and Young as a cheaper and IMO slightly worse D Jones type of player.

Re: We really did upgrade the bench

I thought he stunk last year in pre-season. I forgot nothing. Just like I saw his 13 rebounds on SAT and realized that they came to nearly zero for the team due to how he got them (FT rebounds) or what happened when he did (blocked shot, charge, missed shots).
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Yep he "stunk", 19 and 11 against Chicago in the first preseason game while playing against Noah and Boozer

Game 2: he got 24 points and 14 rebounds against the Bulls again what a horrible player....

I guess that if Tyler with this numbers "stunk" everybody on the Pacers during this preseason has "stunk" the joint too.

Re: We really did upgrade the bench

Obviously, you meant to say Ron instead of Roy wouldn't have made it through that season, and you're absolutely right. The 04 team was a beast from a talent perspective, but I don't like hearing that they could have beaten the 2000 team.

I think talent wise the 2002-2003 team was hands down the most talented roster we ever had. It was the same team from 04 except replace Scott Pollard with Brad Miller. Brad Miller >>>Scott Pollard. I even vividly remember Mark Boyle saying as much on one of the radio broadcasts and Slick agreed. Obviously talent alone doesn't make a good TEAM though as the 03 team swan dived after the allstar break and limped out of the playoffs in the first round.

Re: We really did upgrade the bench

Before we get too high, let's remember that Ian has foul problems, DJ's Matador defense, Tyler's TOs and lack of passing. Not sure about Green's defense either.

I agree....let's come back to Earth here. With Mahinmi's penchant for fouling....I really hope that Vogel realizes that Mahinmi has 6 ( not 5 fouls ) . But in reality...I still see Hansbrough getting roughly 16 mpg if we look at a split of 28 mpg each for West and Hibbert and 24 mpg for Mahinmi. I think that what will limit Mahinmi's minutes is not fatigue...it will be foul trouble. But I really hope that we go with Granger to play some backup PF minutes and limit Hansbrough to 12 mpg where he can come in and provide some really high energy off the bench. I really would like to see a really a small # of minutes with an athletic SG/SF/PF lineup of PG/Green/Granger can do.

Re: We really did upgrade the bench

With Mahinmi, how much do we really need him to play? And he has improved his fouling every year in the league. I think we could squeeze 16-20 minutes out of him not problem.

And Vogel could frontload his minutes as well. So if Mahinmi is having a good game of not fouling he can play more minutes. If hes having one of those games, then Tyler or Plumlee gets some minutes.

And really I am not sure why people are so worried about our Benches D. Our Bench is better offensively, and our bench last year on D was horrible against Miami. At least this lineup might be able to score some points against them.

Frankly I prefer the idea of our bench being run and gun. Pushing the pace. So when opposing teams try and play their stars against out Bench. Just have them trade points, maybe let the other team make a small dent in any possible leads. But then that leaves their stars more worn out when we put the starters back in.

Re: We really did upgrade the bench

With Mahinmi, how much do we really need him to play? And he has improved his fouling every year in the league. I think we could squeeze 16-20 minutes out of him not problem.

And Vogel could frontload his minutes as well. So if Mahinmi is having a good game of not fouling he can play more minutes. If hes having one of those games, then Tyler or Plumlee gets some minutes.

And really I am not sure why people are so worried about our Benches D. Our Bench is better offensively, and our bench last year on D was horrible against Miami. At least this lineup might be able to score some points against them.

Frankly I prefer the idea of our bench being run and gun. Pushing the pace. So when opposing teams try and play their stars against out Bench. Just have them trade points, maybe let the other team make a small dent in any possible leads. But then that leaves their stars more worn out when we put the starters back in.

Besides defense and rebounding I want to see Ian continue to score inside like he has during the preseason. That puts a lot of pressure on the other teams defense and does not allow them to key on the perimeter players when Roy is out.

Re: We really did upgrade the bench

Besides defense and rebounding I want to see Ian continue to score inside like he has during the preseason. That puts a lot of pressure on the other teams defense and does not allow them to key on the perimeter players when Roy is out.

Has he really looked that good offensively? Thanks to my lame duck cardinals i hadnt got a chance to watch any games?

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Re: We really did upgrade the bench

If Roy sees more minutes, that means Mahinmi will almost certainly be playing against other bench players. Part of the issue last year was that Roy was playing fewer minutes, which meant Lou was playing against starters as much as bench players.

Playing our starters against other starters, and our bench against other benches - I like the match-ups.

EDIT - another part of the problem with Lou was his complete lack of offense and being under-sized for a center

Re: We really did upgrade the bench

Ian has been the breakaway suprise of the off-season for me. I already had very high expectations of Green after watching him in New Jersey last season, but Ian, man, he looks like he could be a starter on some teams, and is still relatively young. Some of Ian's post moves have been very, very advanced, and he made Marc Gasol look like an ******* trying to guard him in the post, forcing him to foul 3 times in a short period and scoring twice on him.

Getting a guy like him for 4 million dollars, given the market for 7 footers who can walk and chew gum at the same time, may turn out to be one of the biggest steals in recent Pacers memory. I love, love, love getting a guy like Gerald Green, who I think can legitimately challenge for 6MOY for 3 million per too, great, shrewd moves. I'm near to the point of wanting to phase Tylers minutes out and have Ian as the primary backup at the 4 and 5 position alongside either Roy or West at almost all times, with Tyler getting minutes in blowouts and nights were people have foul trouble. His mobility has impressed me the most, he'll be an upgrade defending the pick and roll over Roy or West, and that could be huge some nights. He and Green look like they'll be a great 1 2 punch off of the bench every night.

I like alot of what I see from Augustin, but man, he's even worse than DC on D, hopefully Vogel will find a way to hide him on that end, because opponents are getting whereever they want against him every night, there are so many good point guards that it could hurt us if he ends up playing against especially starters. Love his handles, speed on offense and ability to spread the floor though. I think we'll see a shorter rotation this year, with both Ian and Green playing 20+ minutes. They offer real skills that in certain situations may make sense to sub in for certain starters, Mobility for Ian, Shooting and shot creation for Gerald.

Re: We really did upgrade the bench

Ian has been the breakaway suprise of the off-season for me. I already had very high expectations of Green after watching him in New Jersey last season, but Ian, man, he looks like he could be a starter on some teams, and is still relatively young. Some of Ian's post moves have been very, very advanced, and he made Marc Gasol look like an ******* trying to guard him in the post, forcing him to foul 3 times in a short period and scoring twice on him.

Getting a guy like him for 4 million dollars, given the market for 7 footers who can walk and chew gum at the same time, may turn out to be one of the biggest steals in recent Pacers memory. I love, love, love getting a guy like Gerald Green, who I think can legitimately challenge for 6MOY for 3 million per too, great, shrewd moves. I'm near to the point of wanting to phase Tylers minutes out and have Ian as the primary backup at the 4 and 5 position alongside either Roy or West at almost all times, with Tyler getting minutes in blowouts and nights were people have foul trouble. His mobility has impressed me the most, he'll be an upgrade defending the pick and roll over Roy or West, and that could be huge some nights. He and Green look like they'll be a great 1 2 punch off of the bench every night.

I like alot of what I see from Augustin, but man, he's even worse than DC on D, hopefully Vogel will find a way to hide him on that end, because opponents are getting whereever they want against him every night, there are so many good point guards that it could hurt us if he ends up playing against especially starters. Love his handles, speed on offense and ability to spread the floor though. I think we'll see a shorter rotation this year, with both Ian and Green playing 20+ minutes. They offer real skills that in certain situations may make sense to sub in for certain starters, Mobility for Ian, Shooting and shot creation for Gerald.

I said that the day we signed him I was shocked that he signed for so cheap. Getting a starting quality C(not a top 10 C by any means) for 4m was by far my favorite move of the off season. Going into the offseason my hope was to get Dalembert who the Rockets were trying to give away. But getting Ian was much better he is younger and was a better fit. To be honest I didnt even know Ian was a free agent until he signed. By far the day Ian signed was the happiest I had been all summer. Green will put up better numbers and be flashy but Ian will make a bigger difference than people realize he is really good at what he does.

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Re: We really did upgrade the bench

After finally catching a pre-season game, and seeing Mahinmi, Green, and Augustin for myself, I felt like re-visiting this thread was a good idea.

We really did upgrade the bench.

When Hill and Granger get fully healthy, the 8-man rotation on this team will be very good. And I don't mean just adequate. I mean, our top 8 is going to be equal to or better than anyone else's top 8. Other teams may have 2, 3, even 4 players. But we have 8 guys that can start. After that, Tyler, Miles, Lance, Ben, Pendergraph... clearly not the same level, but when you start complaining at guy #9 or #10, you're in good shape.

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Re: We really did upgrade the bench

I'm not gonna pretend to be anything close to a Mahinmi expert, but I've gotta assume going to teams with coaches and cultures like San Antonio and Dallas had to do wonders for him. Goes to show how important culture is to reaching potential. Remember how AWESOME! Hassan Whiteside was gonna be? Hell, look at John Wall.

Mahinmi's vocality impresses me more than anything. When's the last time you saw a 7 foot bench big directing people where to go on the floor?

I was really, really skeptical, and I'm not reaching any definitive conclusion based on preseason. But hot damn, Mahinmi's the Player X thunderbird always talked about.

Re: We really did upgrade the bench

It's amazing how a contract as small as 3.5M has forced us to be "creative" in order to improve our roster this season. And really, Ian's contract isn't looking that good right now either, though he'll have a shot at trying to earn it next year in the playoffs. These aren't Murphy/Dunleavy level moves, but they are really hurtful on a small scale. I like to keep repeating it, but I thought last offseason was the worst, pound for pound, in recent memory.

When Bird was asked at the presser last week if he thought Donnie did a good job, his reply was something like "Yes, we made it to the ECF, didn't we"? That's a textbook example of how to be diplomatic.