I fail to see the point of arguing against structured learning, even from a point of cost or time.

I mean certainly here, one can do the various RYA certifications at quite modest costs, especially if taken over time. Many yacht clubs run winter courses too at very modest costs.

IN the case of the RYA, the principle certification is the YM offshore ( the YM Ocean being a different kettle of fish) . That is purely an on the water practical Exam there is no "course"

my view, is that if you can always try and complete all the way to the exam and certifications,you should, it sharpens the mind and provides focus.

Simply because you have a piece of paper does not make you a sailor, no more then many other pieces of paper in life.

Sailing is a lifetime of experiences, coupled with some useful structured learning at appropriate points in time. Since this is all a hobby, the exams have little pressure other then you own desire to succeed.

Dave

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I fail to see the point of arguing against structured learning, even from a point of cost or time.

I mean certainly here, one can do the various RYA certifications at quite modest costs, especially if taken over time. Many yacht clubs run winter courses too at very modest costs.

IN the case of the RYA, the principle certification is the YM offshore ( the YM Ocean being a different kettle of fish) . That is purely an on the water practical Exam there is no "course"

my view, is that if you can always try and complete all the way to the exam and certifications,you should, it sharpens the mind and provides focus.

Simply because you have a piece of paper does not make you a sailor, no more then many other pieces of paper in life.

Sailing is a lifetime of experiences, coupled with some useful structured learning at appropriate points in time. Since this is all a hobby, the exams have little pressure other then you own desire to succeed.

Dave

There is a bit of "confusion" in your reply that essentially captures my outlook on the issue. (BTW, I do agree with everything you said, it's the conclusion that isn't as obvious to me.)

Structured learning is good.
A piece of paper does not make you a sailor.
One of the few worthwhile qualifications can be challenged.

Given the above three factoids, slogging your way through course after course really isn't as cut and dried an issue as one would think.

I believe its good to throw yourself into a class of reputation no matter what you believe your "expertise" level is. You'd be surprised how mis-informed or outdated you havebecome, and the holes in your "self learning". You might be advanced in some areas, but lacking in some fundamentals (or forgetful). Think of it as a "technical refresher". The paper is just paper.

What I was saying is that where there is an exam and a piece of paper at the end of a particular course, then I would recommend everyone try and achieve it. These are not exams in that they affect your life , its a hobby.

BUT the resulting certification is merely a confirmation ( of sorts ) that you have achieved some basic understanding.

Im not sure anyone " slogs " from course to course, in my experience as an instructor, most people do courses cause they find them enjoyable, they learn something and they get a bit of credentalism. Few people " slog" through them, most of those , just either don't start or don't finish if thats the case

The biggest group that then to run down structured learning are typically older people that perceive they know more. What usually transpires is they know a lot less then they claim and are scared to be " shown up".

__________________Check out my new blog on smart boat technology, networking and gadgets for the connected sailor! - http://smartboats.tumblr.com

I believe its good to throw yourself into a class of reputation no matter what you believe your "expertise" level is. You'd be surprised how mis-informed or outdated you havebecome, and the holes in your "self learning". You might be advanced in some areas, but lacking in some fundamentals (or forgetful). Think of it as a "technical refresher". The paper is just paper.

exactly. well put

__________________Check out my new blog on smart boat technology, networking and gadgets for the connected sailor! - http://smartboats.tumblr.com

There is a bit of "confusion" in your reply that essentially captures my outlook on the issue. (BTW, I do agree with everything you said, it's the conclusion that isn't as obvious to me.)

Structured learning is good.
A piece of paper does not make you a sailor.
One of the few worthwhile qualifications can be challenged.

Given the above three factoids, slogging your way through course after course really isn't as cut and dried an issue as one would think.

I had to go back to the first post in this thread and see how all this started. You live in Edmonton. I would take Jackdale up on his offer as he circumnavigates Vancouver Island. I have done this and can tell you once you have completed this, even a part of it, you will have more self esteem, confidence, skill and maybe start developing a fat head like some of us. You will encounter everything the seas have to offer and be in the best navigational training grounds in the world. He is an IYT Instructor and you can continue certifications with him if you want the qualification. It is more than "just a piece of paper" It is hours, days at sea and academics. It should be viewed as a personal milestone and as others have mentioned, it should be fun.

I had to go back to the first post in this thread and see how all this started. You live in Edmonton. I would take Jackdale up on his offer as he circumnavigates Vancouver Island. I have done this and can tell you once you have completed this, even a part of it, you will have more self esteem, confidence, skill and maybe start developing a fat head like some of us. You will encounter everything the seas have to offer and be in the best navigational training grounds in the world. He is an IYT Instructor and you can continue certifications with him if you want the qualification. It is more than "just a piece of paper" It is hours, days at sea and academics. It should be viewed as a personal milestone and as others have mentioned, it should be fun.

And this is exactly why I asked the question in the first place

It seemed to me that 2 weeks around the island would teach me more effectively than the equivalent two weeks cruising the gulf islands in a Cruise and Learn scenario. First because I learn better through repetitive, hands-on tasks and second because the variety of environments and conditions I might encounter.

That led me to think that certification or no, tagging along on a big trip like that might suit me better than the equivalent dollar spent in a more classroom-like environment. I will say that based on everyone's input I have revised my opinion of the structured options and will likely continue to pursue them. However I am going to aggressively seek out bigger trips regardless of any lack of opportunity to gain certs.

It seemed to me that 2 weeks around the island would teach me more effectively than the equivalent two weeks cruising the gulf islands in a Cruise and Learn scenario. First because I learn better through repetitive, hands-on tasks and second because the variety of environments and conditions I might encounter.

That led me to think that certification or no, tagging along on a big trip like that might suit me better than the equivalent dollar spent in a more classroom-like environment. I will say that based on everyone's input I have revised my opinion of the structured options and will likely continue to pursue them. However I am going to aggressively seek out bigger trips regardless of any lack of opportunity to gain certs.

Good stuff. I encourage you to stay with the IYT International Yacht Training program like you have. You picked a good one to start off with. A good instructor/school will offer you exactly what you are looking for. Hands on repetitive. Stay out of the classroom if you can. I don't know Jackdale and have never spoken to him but I have read his comments over the years and I know his cruising grounds and with that I would urge you to get in contact with him. You can continue to Bareboat and on to YM Coastal.
The other thing I would recommend is that you get in touch with the local Sea Cadet Corp in Edmonton. A ton of information for you and you even get paid to do this stuff. I spent 8 weeks on Goose Spit in Comox BC training from Victoria to Queen Charoltte Islands. 6 Weeks onboard and got paid $150 a day. Just another fun option for you. Good luck.