Starting a little project here and ripping out the hard tanks, rebuilding the transmission, and doing a somewhat full restoration to the boat. It's a 1999 Super Air Nautique 210 (V drive). I'll probably be running around 3k in ballast (water puppies, plummed) on the GT-40 engine. Does anyone have experience running a lot of weight in an older 210? I have a feeling I should probably reprop this boat with something that will push a bit more weight and wondering what you guys are running in a similar set up? Any replies are greatly appreciated and if anyone in the Orlando area needs some 210 hard tanks let me know.

wakebordr11

08-19-2013 10:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wakedaveup
(Post 1839866)

Starting a little project here and ripping out the hard tanks, rebuilding the transmission, and doing a somewhat full restoration to the boat. It's a 1999 Super Air Nautique 210 (V drive). I'll probably be running around 3k in ballast (water puppies, plummed) on the GT-40 engine. Does anyone have experience running a lot of weight in an older 210? I have a feeling I should probably reprop this boat with something that will push a bit more weight and wondering what you guys are running in a similar set up? Any replies are greatly appreciated and if anyone in the Orlando area needs some 210 hard tanks let me know.

Make sure you install perfect pass if the boat doesn't already have it. Those boats weighted are a handful to keep at speed - in my experiences... I don't know the prop number off the top of my head but my buddy bought an acme that was propped down, it pulled great.

corerider

08-19-2013 10:47 AM

I would start at the ACME 1234. 14.5" x 14.25 x 0.105 cup 4 blade RH rotation. With the proper weight bias front/rear you should have no issues.

Acme 1234 is what is what i was recommended and using in my super sport, and i slam mine with about 2500lbs. It pulls the weight fine and definitely helped with the fuel effeciency.

DenverRider

08-19-2013 11:02 AM

Why does everyone pull out the hard tanks? I have a 2005 SANTE and I can't imagine wanting to pull out perfectly good hard tanks under the floor to replace them with raft material which seems a lot more fragile to me. You can add the bow sack under the front seats and the cubes in the storage lockers for double decker weight which makes sense to me but why is the raft material under the floor better than the hard tanks? If the previous owner had done this to my boat I would have passed on it and waited for one that hadn't been permanently modified.

DenverRider

08-19-2013 11:08 AM

Does a 14.5 diameter prop fit? The stock 644 is only 13.25 and Wakeprop's prop finder only recommends the 1464 (obsolete and replaced by the 1578) which is a 13.5" diameter prop for weighted boats.

sidekicknicholas

08-19-2013 11:10 AM

We had a 95' Supersport (same hull and we have a GT-40 engine) and this was our setup:

Pro-X Triangle Bow Bag under the playpen seating - ~800 lbs
Pro-X Fat Seat Bottom in the Ski locker - ~750 lbs
Pro-X V-drive sacs - 450 lbs each
two 80 lb lead bricks to move based on people
~2500 lbs + people
.... best part of this setup is there are ZERO bags on the floor or in the way. We've added extra bags to bring the weight total up to #3500 before, but honestly I hardly notice a gain in wake size/shape over #2500. That seems to be this hull's point of diminishing return.

Acme 856 prop did wonders for us. Pulls the boat out of the water stupid fast (fast then stock prop without ballast), usually run about 3000 rpms at 22-24 mph with that weight. Top speed drops to ~35 mph if that matters to you.

delmage171

08-19-2013 11:11 AM

Running 3000lbs in a 96' Supersport. Going to try running 3800 next week.

I have a Acme 1464 Prop. Gets on plane in no time

iShredSAN

08-19-2013 11:12 AM

2 Attachment(s)

I have a '99 SAN... First pic is when I first got the boat, before adding weight in the bow. Second pic is unweighted, just threw it in there for looks :D

I have about 300 lbs in lead up in the nose and also throw a sac on the seats up front. I try to really slam the nose (be careful coming off plane or hitting rollers head on). Needs to be about 60/40 - back/front when riding. Also, I installed a scupper on the bottom of the boat and plumbed in a 650lb sac in the ski locker since it didn't already come with a hard tank. Let me know if you have any questions. You picked a great boat!

natedogg

08-19-2013 11:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DenverRider
(Post 1839891)

Does a 14.5 diameter prop fit? The stock 644 is only 13.25 and Wakeprop's prop finder only recommends the 1464 (obsolete and replaced by the 1578) which is a 13.5" diameter prop for weighted boats.

Yes the 14.5" prop works great, tons of pull, I have ran it for 3 years 2years now with no gel coat burn.

05sante

08-19-2013 11:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DenverRider
(Post 1839886)

Why does everyone pull out the hard tanks? I have a 2005 SANTE and I can't imagine wanting to pull out perfectly good hard tanks under the floor to replace them with raft material which seems a lot more fragile to me. You can add the bow sack under the front seats and the cubes in the storage lockers for double decker weight which makes sense to me but why is the raft material under the floor better than the hard tanks? If the previous owner had done this to my boat I would have passed on it and waited for one that hadn't been permanently modified.

Because the hard tanks (wedge) only hold 260 lbs and take up space whether you're using them or not. Also, the aerator pumps don't do well with a piggy back system. If you pull the hard tanks and put 750's in the locker you gain a ton of storage space and the extra ballast is hidden and automated just like stock.

I keep 2 wakeboards in each locker now when I put the boat away. With the wedge tanks I was barely able to fit a wakeskate in the locker and would never dream about fitting a wakeboard in there.

And it's not permanently modified. I can pull my bags out and put the hard tanks back anytime I want.

markj

08-19-2013 11:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DenverRider
(Post 1839886)

Why does everyone pull out the hard tanks? I have a 2005 SANTE and I can't imagine wanting to pull out perfectly good hard tanks under the floor to replace them with raft material which seems a lot more fragile to me. You can add the bow sack under the front seats and the cubes in the storage lockers for double decker weight which makes sense to me but why is the raft material under the floor better than the hard tanks? If the previous owner had done this to my boat I would have passed on it and waited for one that hadn't been permanently modified.

My thoughts exactly.

08-19-2013 11:54 AM

The hard tanks are useless if you want to weight it down as much as possible. 250 in each side back there is nothing. I'd rather pull them out and run one bag then piggyback the system between a tank and a bag. To each his own. First thing I'd do is pull the hard tanks.

corerider

08-19-2013 12:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DenverRider
(Post 1839891)

Does a 14.5 diameter prop fit? The stock 644 is only 13.25 and Wakeprop's prop finder only recommends the 1464 (obsolete and replaced by the 1578) which is a 13.5" diameter prop for weighted boats.

IIRC pre-2002 a 14.5" diameter prop would fit without prop burn, but in 2002-2006 the drive angle changed and limits prop diameter to 13.5". I have been playing around with the idea of a 14" on my 2003 SANTE, but haven't bought one to try yet. If a 14.5" won't fit, then the 1464 (1578) is my next recommendation. I'm running it, moved up from the 644, and it is head over heals better than the 644 coming out of the hole. I currently only run about 1800lbs.

All that being said, if you have to run any real distance or cruise around much the 644 might be a better choice to keep some topend speed. If that isn't necessary go with the 1464 (1578) or 1234 if it will fit.

boardman74

08-19-2013 12:57 PM

Also in those years the tanks aren't below the floors they were in the locker and like stated above they wasted almost the whole locker for only 250 lbs. if they were below the floors people would just leave them alone and add to it, but they aren't below the floor like current model boats are.

seth

08-19-2013 4:18 PM

Can someone post a pic of the 1234 on a SAN? I am running the 1236 which is 13.5" on my 01 with up to 3500lbs of ballast. The 1236 does fine near sea level with that much weight. Ive also been looking at the 1846 which is 14" diameter. I have always heard that 14" is the biggest you can run. My 13.5 has about an inch gap to the hull.

natedogg

08-19-2013 5:07 PM

1 Attachment(s)

Quote:

Originally Posted by seth
(Post 1839958)

Can someone post a pic of the 1234 on a SAN? I am running the 1236 which is 13.5" on my 01 with up to 3500lbs of ballast. The 1236 does fine near sea level with that much weight. Ive also been looking at the 1846 which is 14" diameter. I have always heard that 14" is the biggest you can run. My 13.5 has about an inch gap to the hull.

this is a 96 Super sport, like someone else mentioned above they may have changed the drive shaft angle after 2003 for the SAN

rmotoxxx711

08-19-2013 11:16 PM

2002 SANTE
I run either the 1236 or 1464 a me reccomended to me by Acme for my weight setup. Can't remember which it is,
750s in the rears, 750 on the floor, front hard tank about 250, 1000 on the nose and about 250 in led and a third battery instead of only two (hey it's another 50lbs, ill take it) just left the stock pumps for filling and replaced the empty ones that stay in the tanks with sunami pumps and icon lent be happier easy to get to and replace

rmotoxxx711

08-19-2013 11:23 PM

Oh and just thought of none of us have taken into consideration is what prop were using at what elevation. I'm using that ^^^ setup at 1000ft

seth

08-20-2013 12:03 AM

They must have changed it before 01, because my boat has maybe that much room with the 13.5.

wakedaveup

08-20-2013 7:22 AM

Wow seriously guys thank you so much for the info, advice, and pictures. I will post some pictures up this week so you can see the starting process. It's a little ragged out right now, but that's the fun of restoring it.

I'm pulling out the hard tanks so that I don't put something too heavy on top of them and collapse them. 500lbs on a piece of plastic is not always good. I want to run the 750's in the back and "sperbert" hit the nail on the head on that one.

This boat is the 99 Super Air and already has perfect pass, ballast (ripping out pretty much everything on that), and tower speakers. I think he added the tower speakers because they are the newer (2002-2006) Polk Audio speakers.

wakedaveup

08-20-2013 7:22 AM

One thing as well, I am not in high altitude. This is strictly for pushing weight.

wakedaveup

08-20-2013 7:26 AM

R(West Side Rider) W- what perfect pass system do you run with that much weight. Right now the boat has a paddle wheel based PP so I feel I'll have some trouble with tight turns and D-ups. I am thinking about upgrading to GPS, but a tech at our shop mentioned you can't just swap them out, you need some other components when going to GPS and not just the GPS puck. Any thoughts on this?

wakedaveup

08-20-2013 7:30 AM

Connor nice boat man!! Thanks for the info as well! I know I've posted 5 times repeatedly I'm just getting back to this thread and didn't realize there were this many posts. Seriously thanks guys, this is my second boat (first was 06 B52 and still love the MB's). I know went backwards on years, but I got a smokin deal I couldn't pass up and regardless of Nautique loyal or not, these 210's were legit. Now it's just time to get hands dirty and go to work!

05sante

08-20-2013 7:49 AM

I did the upgrade to Stargazer on mine from the paddle wheel system. Perfect Pass sells the upgrade kit. You will need a new multi-line display, GPS puck, stargazer brain and associated harnesses. It's an easy upgrade. You keep the paddle wheel to use as a water temp sensor for the Stargazer system.

DenverRider

08-20-2013 8:48 AM

Your hard tanks have to be quite different from mine because my tanks are under the floor and I can't set anything directly on top of them. I didn't know this about older Nautiques.

I looked into that GPS perfect pass upgrade. It's about $500 or so for the Stargazer brain and another $200 or so for the multi line display that you'll need because the one you have is probably not compatible. More than I want to spend right now but my old boat had a much newer Stargazer system in it because I installed it myself and I miss it a little. $1200 to go from nothing to Stargazer was well worth it. $700 to go from pretty darn good to best is not such an obvious deal unless your paddle wheels are less reliable than mine.

FunkyBunch

08-20-2013 8:51 AM

Dave

You can also swap out the paddle wheel and replace it with a Nautic Logic unit. I just added this on my boat it replaces the paddle wheel with a signal from the gps. I can switch back to the paddle wheel if wanted by just swapping the wiring back since it is all plug and play.

Your hard tanks have to be quite different from mine because my tanks are under the floor and I can't set anything directly on top of them. I didn't know this about older Nautiques.

You said above you have a 2005 SANTE so yours is the same as everyone else's in here. Mine is a 2005 also. The belly tank is the only one that is under the floor. Most people don't touch the belly tank because it's under the floor and requires cutting to remove.

The port and starboard wedge tanks are in the lockers, not under the floor. All they have is a carpeted board set on top of it. That's why your locker is wedge shaped and slopes towards the front of the boat. Older 210's didn't have wedge shaped tanks but all are in the lockers just like yours and mine.

DenverRider

08-20-2013 9:29 AM

I didn't know you were just talking about the rear tanks. I've saw some boats on craigslist when I was looking for mine where they pulled the belly tank somehow as well.

jbach

08-20-2013 9:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DenverRider
(Post 1839886)

Why does everyone pull out the hard tanks?

have you tried replaced your impeller yet? that alone was reason enough to ditch the hard tanks. i hated taking them in and out every time i needed to maintain the engine/bilge pump, RWP, rudder packing, etc. added weight was a side benefit for me.

i do question the need to 3K pounds though. the wake seemed to plateau at about 2K. I only fill the 750's completely if we're surfing. for wakeboarding they're only about 1/2. bags all over the floor would be annoying. hell, i get annoyed with just a cooler.

seth

08-20-2013 9:51 AM

Get the nauticlogic GPS. It is so easy to install and works perfectly!!! Im running 750's in back, had a custom sack made to completely fill the ski locker, integrated bow sac, 160lbs lead in the nose, and sometimes we run 2 400's as well. One in the nose and one on the floor against the back seat. The wake definitely does not plateau at 2k. It gets real fun with 3500 in it!!

08-20-2013 10:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jbach
(Post 1840089)

i do question the need to 3K pounds though. the wake seemed to plateau at about 2K. I only fill the 750's completely if we're surfing. for wakeboarding they're only about 1/2. bags all over the floor would be annoying. hell, i get annoyed with just a cooler.

I disagree. To each his own however. You can run around 3000 #s with no bags on the floor(other than the bow). The only bag above the floor in both my 210 and my friends is the bow sac. I don't have a center tank though. I use a custom bag that holds at least double the weight of the stock center tank.

DenverRider

08-20-2013 10:41 AM

My boat had a new impeller in it that the previous owner installed before I bought it last June so I haven't had to do that yet. My old Tige was a direct drive so engine access isn't something I've had to deal with when replacing an impeller. I guess we'll see what that's like next summer.

corerider

08-20-2013 11:02 AM

The belly ballast tank can be removed by removing the floor section over the fuel tank, removing the fuel tank, then just side the ballast tank back. No cutting required! Most people are just too lazy for all that and cut up the old tank thinking they will never need it again anyway.

bschall

08-20-2013 11:41 AM

For those of you that ripped out the hard tanks how easy is it to keep the weight balanced? The 210s are pretty finicky side to side and by just having sacks back there i could see it being a problem.

The wake gets noticeably more meaty when you start get over 2000# but the shape makes up for its size at lower weights and is still muy bueno in my opinion

seth

08-20-2013 12:18 PM

Its easy as long as there is someone in the boat who knows what they are doing, to tell people where to move. I also have 4 pop bags on the floor to throw around.

wakedaveup

08-22-2013 12:16 PM

Mark (funky bunch)- thanks so much for the recommendation as well as the other guys on the stargazer upgrade. That's a must for me and every bit of information in this thread has been incredibly helpful. Thanks for that to everyone.

As far as the 3k in ballast being too much, it's just my preference and how I ride. I've been riding since I was 12 years old and would rather overrotate a trick than underrotate. I also would rather have too much ballast and let some out, than too little and not be able to add. That's my reasoning for the 3k and lets be honest, it's just fun to do custom stuff on these boats and put your own twist on it. I do think I'll be leaving the belly hard tank in and like said above the only visible sac will be in the bow, but that will be covered by a snap on bow cover so you'll never see it.

wakedaveup

08-22-2013 12:38 PM

4 Attachment(s)

Well, here they are haha. The boat is currently pretty rough and I couldn't be more excited about what I want to do to it and how it will turn out over the next month or two. There's just something about projects like these that when it's all said and done, it's something you can be proud of the work you put it in. Let's just hope it turns out like planned. First task is rebuilding the tranny, then I'm pretty much taking out most of the floor, seat basses, rear ballast tanks, and moving forward with the plummed ballast with reversable water puppies. After that I will be doing the perfect pass, custom cover, and wet sand/wax/polish. Other than some other minor things the final task will be a completely new upholstery ( I will probably leave the bow since it will have a sac on it and covered by snap cover). I'll post pictures through the process and any recommendations are always appreciated.

Ben- That's super clean man!! Love the colors too. I about knocked myself out tonight pulling my rear ballast tanks haha. This is not going to be a walk in the park that's for sure.

brichter14

08-23-2013 5:52 AM

Yeah you will appreciate having the 750 sacks in the rear locker. Opens up so much space. I looked at a 00 SAN before getting this one and there is a huge difference in storage if the hard tanks are out. Mines not a SAN though its a super sport so it didn't come with ballast. Did come with e factory FCT 2 tower and perfect pass though. You will enjoy the heck outa that boat.

wakedaveup

08-23-2013 7:16 AM

Thanks Ben! The wait is kiiling me, but I want to make it right before putting it in the water. I don't have a trailer and live on the lake, so once it's in, it's in. Last night I tore out the rear ballast tanks. The starboard side with the actuator was ridiculous to get out. I pulled the front of the tank up to get it out and it literally popped up, smacked my chin, and I went through about 3 towels of blood and sitting at work with a swollen chin haha! No pain no gain I guess ;)

seth

08-23-2013 9:18 AM

There was a ski locker hard tank in 99? If so I would really suggest pulling it if you are taking everything apart anyway. There is so much unused space in the ski locker! You can get 800-1000lbs in there with a custom sack.

jbach

08-23-2013 10:10 AM

that back seat pops straight up. you can them slide the ballast tanks forward and out. much easier. you won't have to worry about that anymore no though.

wakedaveup

08-23-2013 11:02 AM

Josh- I was able to slide the port side tank out that way (I had already pulled the back rest out). The starboard side batter box was screwed to the floor with audio cables going everywhere. It appeared to be a smaller tank than the port side so I assumed I could pull it out from the top. That was my mistake, never again lol. Next time I'm removing that battery and pulling it out like you said. Well, hopefully there won't be a next time!

brichter14

02-08-2014 9:25 PM

Any updates on this thread?

wakedaveup

02-09-2014 6:42 AM

Hey Ben, ironically I pulled the boat out 2 days ago to continue this project. I didn't get as far into it originally because I got the boat during summer and decided to use it more than I wanted to fix it up. Here's a list of what's going into the boat over the 2 weeks and I will get more pictures through the process. I'm planning on taking out the cooler boxes and replacing them with sub boxes (probably going to run solo baric 10's or 12's).

List over the next two weeks:

cap and rotor, spark plugs, belts, new batteries, converting to dual battery system and moving batteries under observer seat to open up rear compartments for more ballast, new blue tooth head unit, new audio wiring and speakers, subs and custom boxes, all new thru hulls for ballast, all bags will be completely independent (right now my 3 ballast puppies pull from 1 thru hull, it's dumb haha), new impellers in all pumps, and a few other small things. It's crazy how fast the money adds up but very thankful to work for a shop that helps me out especially on installs. I have been discussing with one of the techs and since we are a Moomba dealer I have been debating try to add the Moomba Flow surf system to the back of my boat since it's simply a bolt on application. We are also considering a custom built NSS system as well. My buddy at the shop is ridiculous with custom fab work. He built a go pro system on a G23 last year that was incredible. All the small things and ballast should be done over the next few weeks and I'll get some pictures. In a month the interior will be all done and I'm hoping to have a full write up and pictures from start to finish by spring time. Just so much money I want to put in this boat haha

wakedaveup

02-09-2014 6:45 AM

By the way Ben I love your boat man, so clean and that's the look I'm aiming for. I think we even have the same graphics except my tower is black. That's another consideration I have as well is powder coating the tower again. We'll see though, there's a lot of other things I need to get done first.

brichter14

02-09-2014 11:29 AM

Sounds like a lot of fun! I am looking forward to seeing all the progress, especially the battery relocation. I am planning on adding a second battery also but i will put mine on the ledge behind the back seat in the ski locker. There is plenty of room there even wit full 750s in the back.

If you haven't already you should join planetnautique and make a build thread there are alot of knowledgable ppl ere that might be able to help you along the way.

Hey Ben I do have an account over there and will definitely do a whole thread when the boat is done. I pulled out the interior and floor yesterday, disconnected all cables, and will start the relocation this week. I'll take some pics and post them up when it's done and how we did it. Is your battery still in the back compartment in that picture above? The whole reason I want to move mine under the dash is because the flyhigh 750 rubs on everything in the locker including the battery. It almost smashes it. I'm also relocating the blower and rerouting the hose. I think I can see your blower in the starboard rear compartment and mine was in the same spot but if I filled my bag to capacity, the blower edges would dig into the bag. Just trying to get the compartments as open and clean as possible so the bags fill evenly and look plush. You ever have these problems?

machloosy

02-17-2014 9:17 AM

Dave, I'm in Orlando for a week or so and would gladly give ya a hand. 315.729.4134. Shoot me a call or a text

wakedaveup

02-17-2014 11:39 AM

Hey bud thanks so much for the offer. I actually have one of our shop techs helping me out this week after work hours so I should be good, but we may head out this weekend and ride my buddies 230. If you're around send me a PM and I'll send you my number to see if we can hook up and ride. It's supposed to be some nice weather so hit me up.

wakedaveup

02-24-2014 1:50 PM

5 Attachment(s)

Finally able to make some more head way on the boat. Got the ballast done yesterday. Added 2 more thru hulls so that every pump and ballast can be independent. Ran rocker switches up to the dash, ran all the battery cables and installed dual battery system under the dash (was able to fit both batteries and still have room for a sub box or amp. The first battery slid all the way to the front of the observer compartment almost into the boat, fit better than I thought). New impellers in all pumps, new spark plugs, cap, transmission flush, and sent off some interior pieces to the vinyl guy. It's taken way longer than I thought and will probably still take some time to get it where I want it, but it's been fun and educational to say the least. The last step will be pulling the gas tank and fully cleaning the bilge, then carpets, and make my way out until it's spotless or as close to it as I can get.