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9:57

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7.30 Report

Senate committee releases HSU report

Opposition Leader in the Senate Eric Abetz reveals the contents of the Fair Work report on the Health Services Union, which the Senate's education, employment and workplace relations committee has released.

Transcript

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CHRIS UHLMANN, PRESENTER: Liberal Senator Eric Abetz is the shadow Minister for Workplace Relations and he sits on the committee which tonight tabled the Fair Work report. He joins us now.

Senator Abetz, welcome.

ERIC ABETZ, OPPOSITION WORKPLACE RELATIONS SPOKESMAN: Good to be on the program.

CHRIS UHLMANN: Now it's 1,100 pages long, but it is very forensic and among many other things it finds that Craig Thomson spent $6,000 on union credit cards on prostitutes.

ERIC ABETZ: This Fair Work Australia report is absolutely damning, and on the basis of this report, Ms Gillard surely can no longer accept Craig Thomson's vote on the floor of the House.

CHRIS UHLMANN: Well Craig Thomson is on the crossbench. He's left the Labor Party, he has not been charged with anything yet by anyone, there may only be civil penalties involved in this, so how can you leap immediately to that conclusion?

ERIC ABETZ: Ms Gillard set up Fair Work Australia. It is her instrument of government that has looked into these allegations against Mr Thomson and Fair Work Australia has made finding after finding. There are literally hundreds of pages, individual chapters simply devoted to Mr Craig Thomson's activities, spending the hard-earned dollars of Health Service Union members in a fashion that is completely and utterly unacceptable and to think that the person who has been found to do this is propping this government up on the floor of the House is unacceptable to most Australians.

CHRIS UHLMANN: But if there are deficiencies in the law, it's a law, some of it, which has stood some for a long time. You didn't do anything about it when you were in government. What do you propose to do to make sure that it not happen again?

ERIC ABETZ: One, we believe that this matter should've been referred to the police a lot earlier. It has been referred to the police and we welcome that. Some 10 days ago, Tony Abbott announced a suite of policy to indicate to the Australian people that if we were to be elected, after the next election we would implement changes to increase the penalty on union bosses who so misuse and abuse the faith that individual union members place in them.

CHRIS UHLMANN: And that's a large report, but is there anything in that which says that a criminal act has been committed? I noticed also that Mr Thomson spent approximately $250,000 of union money both directly and indirectly on boosting his profile in Dobell. Have there been breaches of the Electoral Act?

ERIC ABETZ: We believe that the Australian Electoral Commission will need to reconsider the Dobell campaign on the basis of this report because there is no doubt that a lot has been disclosed in this report which was not made available to the Australian Electoral Commission before and we know that the New South Wales police and the Victorian police forces are investigating these very matters as we speak. Very serious matters. And they're doing that because the Commonwealth Director of Public Prosecutions has referred this report to those police forces.

CHRIS UHLMANN: Finally, briefly, what do you intend to do about Fair Work Australia after this episode if you should make government?

ERIC ABETZ: We believe that Fair Work Australia should no longer be enquiring into registered organisations and we would set up a separate registered organisations commission as part of the Fair Work Ombudsman and as a result take this away from Fair Work Australia which has had this unprecedented delay in coming out with this report.

CHRIS UHLMANN: Eric Abetz, thank you.

ERIC ABETZ: Thank you.

CHRIS UHLMANN, PRESENTER: The Government has been bleeding over the HSU affair for months. Just over a week ago the Prime Minister moved to limit the damage by cutting Craig Thompson adrift. But many in Julia Gillard's own party saw that as too little, too late. This afternoon the Workplace Relations Minister Bill Shorten reacted to the report by indicating he would change the law to ensure that this never happens again. He joins me now.

Bill Shorten, welcome.

BILL SHORTEN, WORKPLACE RELATIONS MINISTER: Good evening.

CHRIS UHLMANN: What do you propose to do?

BILL SHORTEN: Well the report is incredibly disturbing. As a former union official, it's extremely disappointing. I have to say, on the record, I do not believe that the vast majority of the trade union movement, its members and officials, act like some of the manner outlined in this report. It's appalling.

CHRIS UHLMANN: How could we know given the state of the law?

BILL SHORTEN: Well, that's where - I'll come to that, but I just don't want to let a few rotten apples in some parts of the Health Services Union become a smear across all unions 'cause I've been speaking with the incoming head of the ACTU Dave Oliver. He's as committed as I am to make making sure that we take the lessons and we improve governance. So to specifically answer your question, I see no argument against officials, officers of the union, reporting what they earn to the members. Financial disclosure and transparency's a must. I've got also no doubt and I know that the trade union movement and the Government are - unanimously have a view that you've gotta have appropriate penalties for individuals who are found to do the wrong thing and that the penalties do - will need be lifted.

CHRIS UHLMANN: Fair Work Australia is your beast. How could the legislation that govern it be so bad that the head of Fair Work Australia should say that she's unable even to deal with presenting the criminal matters to police? How can any legislation in the Commonwealth allow that?

BILL SHORTEN: Well, the legislation - and whilst I'm not seeking to divert from the issue, the legislation which the current government and the general manager of Fair Work operates under was actually passed in Parliament by the then minister for Industrial Relations in 2002, who, for the people who don't follow it, that was actually - it was Tony Abbott.

CHRIS UHLMANN: But - it's Tony Abbot's fault?

BILL SHORTEN: No, no, but it's Tony Abbott's law.

CHRIS UHLMANN: Fair Work Australia is your beast.

BILL SHORTEN: Sorry, but the Fair Work Registered Organisations Act is not and we are going to improve it. And we've also said today at the press conference that the recommendations that the general manager is making, we will implement. She's also said that - and we've already said this: that the report's taken too long.

CHRIS UHLMANN: Where is Bernadette O'Neill getting her legal advice from? Because what organisation in the Commonwealth can't deal with the police? They can in fact be compelled to deal with the police, can't they?

BILL SHORTEN: Well we've said today that there should be no ambiguity, no confusion, that Fair Work Australia general manager should be (inaudible).

CHRIS UHLMANN: It sounds like an excuse. It sounds like a facade.

BILL SHORTEN: I'm sorry, Chris, I hadn't finished. I'm just making it very clear. You're saying it's silly that the regulator can't talk to the police. We agree. That's why we will remove any legislative uncertainty so that that can't happen again.

CHRIS UHLMANN: But is there - have you got any legal advice of your own that says that this is the case?

BILL SHORTEN: The general manager of Fair Work Australia said so. We wanna fix that up once and for all.

CHRIS UHLMANN: Why is it that after four years, that this report appears on budget eve and the last report from them appeared on the Holy Thursday, the day before Good Friday? Coincidence in timing?

BILL SHORTEN: Oh, well, if you're looking for some sort of conspiracy, you won't find it here.

CHRIS UHLMANN: Why wouldn't cynics think that after what we've seen?

BILL SHORTEN: Well, as I've said earlier in April and as we said today, the report has taken too long. We owe it to the members of this union to resolve all of the investigations and what court processes have to happen will have to happen. We want to see - as minister I want to see the process finished. It has taken too long. There are deficiencies in the law. We'll rectify them. We are the people who've proposed putting in an administrator into the federally registered dysfunctional parts of the union, supported by the rest of the union movement. So we're taking action on governance. We're taking action on the union.

CHRIS UHLMANN: But if we work our way back through what you've said over the course in fact not just of months but of the last couple of years, you're saying today that you can change the law to change the way that this organisation works. And in the past you wouldn't even call on the organisation to release the report, so what are we to make of those two statements?

CHRIS UHLMANN: And you are the minister and you can change the law to change the way that it works. You're saying that today.

BILL SHORTEN: We owe it to hospital workers, we owe it to the people who clear people's bedpans to actually get the process right. It's been too long, coming on TV saying it has been too long, we've said that before. We said we think the report is deeply disturbing, it's appalling conduct that we're reading about. We're acting on the issues of governance. So, we are moving in the area which is now required to be done. The investigation stage is now completed at long last.

CHRIS UHLMANN: Could a reasonable person come to the conclusion that the HSU East branch was set up to defraud its members of money?

BILL SHORTEN: I don't know if that was the case. What I do know is that the behaviour which is reported is completely unacceptable. The references to payment for procurement of escort services leaves the Labor Party, leaves Labor members, leaves ordinary citizens disgusted and they're right to be. But what we are now doing is we want to clean up the structure of that union and we're acting on governance.

CHRIS UHLMANN: And let's be clear: that person that we're talking about is Labor MP Craig Thomson who still enjoys enough of your confidence that you take his vote on the floor of Parliament.

BILL SHORTEN: Well, as distasteful as the findings are and as much as some would wish it was not so, Mr Thomson is entitled to the presumption of innocence. There have been people in the Parliament who've been under charges and they've exercised votes. What we are making very clear today is that we've now finally got this report. It's been too long in the coming. The conduct is not acceptable. The findings are extremely disappointing and ugly and we're acting to fix up governance and we're acting to move on the issues.

CHRIS UHLMANN: Finally, briefly, how much damage has this done to the Labor Party?

BILL SHORTEN: I think that the action of a few individuals in some dysfunctional parts of the union is giving the labour movement a bad name, no question. That is why this government has moved to put an administrator in. Our lawyers didn't get caught in a traffic jam going to the Federal Court to do that. Everyone's hopped on the bandwagon. We are the ones who want to improve governance. But I'll also say this: I believe most trade - the vast majority of trade unionists are honest, hardworking, they don't deserve what these few individuals have done.