Gold Member

years ago I read a book that made me hopping mad, but it also made me think. In it the psychologist was saying that each of us has a market value on the dating scene. It is based on a number of things that we bring to the table. Some of them were: Status, Age, Physical attractiveness, intelligence, Social clout, education, Gender, Race, etc. He felt that problems arose in dating when there was a disparity between what we thought our market value was and our true market value. He said quite often people over estimated their own market value while underestimating that of others.
I am sure most people do not want to hear that. I know I didnt. But it made me realize that we can bring many good things to the table , but if the person or persons we are wishing to attract do not value these qualities we are not going to have the desired outcome. Our market value is only as good as what the market will bear.

Gold Member

years ago I read a book that made me hopping mad, but it also made me think. In it the psychologist was saying that each of us has a market value on the dating scene. It is based on a number of things that we bring to the table. Some of them were: Status, Age, Physical attractiveness, intelligence, Social clout, education, Gender, Race, etc. He felt that problems arose in dating when there was a disparity between what we thought our market value was and our true market value. He said quite often people over estimated their own market value while underestimating that of others.
I am sure most people do not want to hear that. I know I didnt. But it made me realize that we can bring many good things to the table , but if the person or persons we are wishing to attract do not value these qualities we are not going to have the desired outcome. Our market value is only as good as what the market will bear.

What do you all think about this?

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The current market is quite large with plenty of room for variety. At least that's my experience. I'd like to know why he thought people over estimated their own value and underestimated that of others. Was he suggesting that market standards bear a narrow margin? If so, why? Sounds as though he's promoting what the media would consider a "high" market value and if that's so, then i'd say he's wrong on that count. We all bring our own "values" to the table in dating, that much is true, but i'd need to read what else he has to say before formulating a solid opinion.

Gold Member

You are a beautiful woman with much that you bring to the table so perhaps your options may be many. This book was written by a black psychologist to black women. He was explaining why in his opinion there are so many black women who do not have success in the dating arena. Many are well educated, attractive, etc. but many expect to find a man within their community that is either at the same status level or greater. In addition, he mentions that many black parents in the desire to give their children more than what they themselves had, have created a false sense of entitlement without the real social infrastructure to sustain such expectations. Thus the women find themselves outside the market. He mentioned that these women had to realize that they were competing not only against women of their own social status but women above and below them for the same prize. It was frustrating but sobering.

Gold Member

You are a beautiful woman with much that you bring to the table so perhaps your options may be many. This book was written by a black psychologist to black women. He was explaining why in his opinion there are so many black women who do not have success in the dating arena. Many are well educated, attractive, etc. but many expect to find a man within their community that is either at the same status level or greater. In addition, he mentions that many black parents in the desire to give their children more than what they themselves had, have created a false sense of entitlement without the real social infrastructure to sustain such expectations. Thus the women find themselves outside the market. He mentioned that these women had to realize that they were competing not only against women of their own social status but women above and below them for the same prize. It was frustrating but sobering.

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Oh, so he was discussing this within the context of a certain demographic. Now it makes more sense. I thought you were speaking in terms of a much broader "market". I would imagine that dating within one's culture/social strata changes due to a number of factors, including the ones you mentioned. Surprising to me Davis had to convince publishers with this topic; not only was it legitimate but a reality for many.

Still a loaded question for everyone, isn't it? I'll pick this up and read it. Thank you for the link, Naughty. :smile:

VerifiedGold Member

I've often heard women say, "I'm attractive, I'm educated, I make good money, etc...why can't I find a good man?"

What they don't realize is that although they place high value on those things, men don't necessarily place high value on the same things. Sure they're nice to have, but I'm more interested in someone who's nice, fun to be around, easy to get along with, etc.

Gold Member

I've often heard women say, "I'm attractive, I'm educated, I make good money, etc...why can't I find a good man?"

What they don't realize is that although they place high value on those things, men don't necessarily place high value on the same things. Sure they're nice to have, but I'm more interested in someone who's nice, fun to be around, easy to get along with, etc.

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Exactly,

Some of the examples he used were rather embarassing but real. I know that I have seen at least of few. But then I notice that many people male and female do the same thing as they attempt to assess what may have gone wrong they list all the things that they have been told would find one a mate and are in consternation when someone not as pretty, not as accomplished, not as educated, but also not as intimidating for these reasons walks away with what they consider the prize.

Gold Member

That is very very true. I've noticed in my life, that a lot of men, and some women, view themselves as having more dating value than they really do. I think this is one reason why some of men have trouble finding girlfriends.

Gold Member

That is very very true. I've noticed in my life, that a lot of men, and some women, view themselves as having more dating value than they really do. I think this is one reason why some of men have trouble finding girlfriends.

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LOL! Well sweetie who wants to see themselves as a 3 when they would rather be a 9? Television and movies do a lot to perpetuate this mythology. Look at shows like the "King of Queens" where an overweight idiot pulls a beautiful bright wife. Selling fantasies is what sells soap. What some people generally dont realize is that life is a bit more like the old Smokie Robinson song, "Shop Around"

Just because you've become a young man now
There are some things that you dont understand now
before you go and ask some girl for her hand now
Keep your freedom for as long as you can now
My mama told me, You better shop around
Uh huh you better shop around

There some things that I want you to know now
Just as sure as the wind is gonna blow now
The girls will come and the girls are gonna go now
just one thing before you say you love them so now
My mama told me you better shop around
Uh huh you better shop around

You better get yourself a bargain boy
Dont ya be sold on the very first one
Good looking girls come a dime a dozen
try to get you one that
s gonna give you true lovin

Instead of "Some day my prince will come" its more like "I'm ok so you better be pretty damn near perfect" Most men and women after they have fought hard to get their PhD, MD, JD, are not looking for someone to lift up out of the mire. They are looking generally for their equal or someone who can help them move to the next level. They are not going to have sympathy for all that you have been through to get where you are. IF you want to cruise with a Mercedes then you better have a Mercedes engine or a Porsche one. Dont expect a Mercedes to slow down from cruise control because you are pushing the pedal to the metal in your Yugo. If you cant buy the goodies on what you make , readjust your expectations. Unless you snag him when you are in your 20's tip top and tight , for every year on the chassis you are going to have to bring a little more to the table to even out the odds. It may not be fair but it is true. Why else are there so many older women continually going under the knife and using enough botox to paralyze themselves ? It isnt just for fun. They want to stay in the style to which they are accustomed. Now upgrades like weight loss, sudden boosts to the next income level etc might improve one's market value but always remember things can change at any moment. Scary? possibly True, definitely.

I am sure that gay men and women can attest to some degree to the same.

Gold Member

I'm not sure why the book made you "hopping mad." I tend to see the world this way. That is just the way my mind can make sense of things. When men have asked "what do you bring to the table" in the women's forum there have been angry responses, like "how dare you ask such questions?"

One College Board survey asked 829,000 high school seniors to rate themselves in a number of ways. When asked to rate their own ability to "get along with others", fewer than one percent rated themselves as below average. Furthermore, sixty percent rated themselves in the top ten percent, and one-fourth of respondents rated themselves in the top one percent.
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Also, most people rate themselves as above average drivers and very few think they are below average. And I bet most people would think they are above average lovers.

I notice people seem to downplay or dismiss their bad qualities. Like people that get mad and yell and argue will say "everybody does that sometimes" or "that's normal in relationships."

Personally, I've often wondered what my equivalent in a female would be. I don't want to overestimate my value, but I don't want to underestimate either. I've asked men and women, but can never get a good answer. Your market value is not an easy subject to discuss with others.

And even though I believe a lot of this market value stuff makes sense there is also the idea of chemistry. Two people may not have equivalent market values, but say they both share the same rare hobbies. Then they can make up for any difference in market value. So I think it's a combination of how good you are "on paper" and how well you get along with a particular person (intangibles). But many people will take that to mean market value means nothing which is not true.

Well said Jovial. The overestimation operates as a conscious or unconscious self-defense mechanism. Ignorance of one's flaws may be more of an age thing (the younger you are, the less experience you probably have with your own flaws), but a lot of these qualities are very hard to change. They cost loads of time and money, not to mention the fact that many are determined by these little things called nucleic acids and how they're chained together. It's easier to delude yourself and rationalize flaws than to actually change them, so I believe that's where much of the overestimation comes in.

But I mean, sarcasm aside, I can understand that impulse, to constantly produce fantasies that alter reality. It's tough being human, with all this consciousness business. Who wants to see all that negative stuff? After all, that makes you feel bad. You want to feel good! So just look at the positive stuff and create unbalanced market value for those positive qualities you have! Yay! We win! Except when that doesn't work, which is much of the time.

Gold Member

I am glad you enjoy the topic. I found it to be a wake up for me and helped me to look at things through a different lense.

Jovial,

I got angry because of a number of assumptions the author made. In the black community the demographics are that 30% of black women would ever marry. Starting with this daunting information, I felt as if he was pouring salt in the wound by blaming black women for a number of things that I really didnt think were their faults in why they did not find mates. Starting with the sheer numbers disparity, even if a person was damn near perfect in this dating game of musical chairs, someone was still going to do without unless they found some alternative. It was to say the least depressing.

Gold Member

I can see that. Dating does seem like a game of musical chairs to me and I'm not quick enough to ever get a chair. :frown1: It does seem odd that so many people, both men and women, say they can't find the right person.

Gold Member

I tend to underestimate my own value. I think that is because of my background and having not fit in where I grew up. It's sometimes hard to get out of that.

Right now there are two things really holding me back: my shyness and the fact that I'm unemployed/underemployed. I'm working on both but it's a long process especially for the shyness. And the job situation is partly just what is out there - the jobs have to BE there before that can really improve. One of my friends (SensualGoth, in fact...) recommended that I join Toastmasters. I've thought of that before and may just do that. I'm pretty busy in my life as it is, but that should help me both in my personal life and in my career, so it's good all around.

I tend to get down on my appearance a lot - I think probably I just have body image/insecurity issues that a lot (most?) women have.

Gold Member

I do have a question to ask ... Do you all think that one of the issues is that some people use their dating partner or ability to pull from A list person as a measurement of their own desirability, etc? I have seen over and over again couples where one partner is decidedly more physically attractive than the other and the less attractive partner eventually grows tired of the fact they they have to contribute more in the way of monetary goods or job, etc. In women I have seen them belittle a physically handsome but socially, educationally, or monetarily less successful partner in attempts to mold him into what they really want. They were blinded by the looks and later came to realize that it was not all they wanted or needed. Or even sicker I have found people that chased after a physically attractive person in the hopes that their children would be attractive and when the child came out looking like them then got angry with both the child and the partner and took out their disappointment on them.

VerifiedGold Member

Interesing question: what I have seen is that some people place such a high value on looks that they blind themselves to other things that they wouldn't accept in less attractive people. For example, I know a woman who accepts verbal abuse & disrespectful behavior from her BF because he's very good looking and a lot of other women want him. I've also seen people go after others for certain qualities like complexion, hair texture & other silly things in the hopes that their children will have those same traits...and yes, I've also seen the disappointment when things didn't turn out as planned...

Gold Member

Interesing question: what I have seen is that some people place such a high value on looks that they blind themselves to other things that they wouldn't accept in less attractive people. For example, I know a woman who accepts verbal abuse & disrespectful behavior from her BF because he's very good looking and a lot of other women want him. I've also seen people go after others for certain qualities like complexion, hair texture & other silly things in the hopes that their children will have those same traits...and yes, I've also seen the disappointment when things didn't turn out as planned...

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The sick thing about that is what in our society has made people ignore all common sense to chase after the brass ring of a diminishing resource. Looks go ... I used to think it was only among black people but after reading some unbelievable posts here I see this illness pervades us globally. I just finished reading "In the time of Butterflies" the story of the Mirabal sisters and their fight against Dominican dictator,Gen. Leonidas Trujillo. This is a person who systematically engaged in the genocide of thousands of Haitians in the quest to keep the Dominican population from being "tainted by African blood" I had often wondered why I had witnessed such color, feature and hair issues within that and many other Latin populations. The racism and self loathing is breathtaking. I have experienced and witnessed some amazingly outrageous comments from Latin family members and colleagues about others physical features. We have got to get over this. It is a poison that needs to be lanced.