Spectropop - Digest Number 357

From:Spectropop Group

Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2002 16:31:48

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There are 25 messages in this issue of Spectropop.
Topics in this Digest Number 357:
1. Is it Live or is it Fake?
From: "Vlaovic B"
2. Kooper, Diamond
From: "Paul Payton"
3. Re- AL KOOPER - THE SONGS NOT THE SINGER
From: "Javed Jafri"
4. Re: AL KOOPER
From: "Joseph Scott"
5. Re: Yes we're going to a party, party
From: Michael Rashkow
6. Re: musica/Janie Grant/Diane Renay
From: Bruce Kerr
7. Kiwi Baiting
From: "Martin Roberts"
8. INTENTIONALLY DELETED
By: "Spectropop Administration"
9. Re :When songwriting starts to suck
From: "Robert Conway"
10. Re :When songwriting starts to suck
From: Dan Hughes
11. Re Janie Grant. A Warning!!
From: "Martin Roberts"
12. Silk Purses or Sow's Ears?
From: James Botticelli
13. Casey Kasem
From: James Botticelli
14. Hullabaloo and Shindig -- Again
From: Paul Urbahns
15. Remixing
From: James Botticelli
16. Re: Fifth Avenue Band
From: Scott
17. Burt in Canadian press
From: "Vincent Degiorgio"
18. Jaynets
From: Simon White
19. Brian Wilson/Smile - Mojo Magazine
From: "Tom Knott"
20. Jeff Barry's Greatest Hits
From: "Don Charles"
21. Re: Mojo Men
From: "J.H. Ket"
22. Re: Re-mixing
From: "Vincent Degiorgio"
23. Wonderful Majors
From: "Kingsley Abbott"
24. Re: It ain't fair
From: Michael Rashkow
25. The Rock Machine
From: Richard Havers
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Message: 1
Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2002 17:13:36 -0500
From: "Vlaovic B"
Subject: Is it Live or is it Fake?
Surprised that it took so long for someone to mention the
2nd side of the First Shangri-Las LP 'Leader of the Pack'.
Fake audience going gaga over a group that definitely
wasn't live. A sextet of early r'n'r covers with none of
their hits! How often would that have happened.
Can I offer the Ronettes suspiciously live 'What'd I Say'.
Although it might have been recorded live, the track was
definitely peppered with background crowd noise. Although
Ronnie's urging of Nedra to 'go' (I think it actually was
"Go Ned") sounded pretty real.
V
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Message: 2
Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2002 15:41:38 -0500
From: "Paul Payton"
Subject: Kooper, Diamond
Mick Patrick writes:
> ...as a recording artist, AL KOOPER has never reached
> me. The lack of response to David's message leads me
> to suspect that many Spectropoppers feel likewise.
Amen, Mick, but as you note, "Al wrote some really good
songs." To add to your note, the flip of the Eight Feet
45, "What Am I Without You," is a truly gorgeous folkie
ballad, and one of my favorite songs of his, alternately
called "Street Song" and "New York's My Home (Razz Ma
Tazz)" was done by him solo (on a little
Amy-Bell-distributed label whose name I forget - my
favorite of all his own recordings) and by the Kitchen
Cynque on LHI (prod. Lee Hazlewood), also a very fine
version.
Bryan: thanks for the Kenny & the Kasuals link. I should
know to always check Fuzz Acid & Flowers first. But
strangely - no mention of "I'd Love To Go Flying."
To Alan Zweig: thanks for bringing up your feelings -
which I share - on Neil Diamond. In my opinion, "Solitary
Man" is his masterpiece, and his last great song was
"Holly Holy" or around that era. Since then, I find him
to have become almost a caricature; he's just too old to
cry and bleat the way he does on his records. (Fightin'
words to some, right? But as I said, "in my opinion.") It
doesn't diminish his monumental accomplishments in the
beginning.
And Alan, some folks who burn out get recharged and come
back. For example, John Lennon found an interesting new
road just before he died; and after his run of "terminal
cuteness," Paul McCartney is again writing some stuff
that counts - i.e., his song on the "Vanilla Sky"
soundtrack. Few if any of us have the experience, but it
must be hell trying constantly to top oneself in public.
(Not that I've ever had to personally confront that
problem!)
Country Paul
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Message: 3
Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2002 11:21:01 -0500
From: "Javed Jafri"
Subject: Re- AL KOOPER - THE SONGS NOT THE SINGER
> nice list Mick but what about.....
> I Love you More Than Youll Ever Know, My Days Are
> Numbered, I Can't Quit Her (from BST The Child is Father
> To The Man), New York City (You're A Woman and The
> Warning (Someone's on the Cross Again), both are from New
> York City You're A Woman a 1971 solo album. The latter
> has Carol Kaye's bass on about half the tracks
>....and as a recording artist he reached me too. One of
>the great unsung
Also Al Cooper's work with the Blues Project should not
be forgotten and there are some nice things on the
Stills/Cooper Super Sessions album.
Javed
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Message: 4
Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2002 09:40:09 -0700
From: "Joseph Scott"
Subject: Re: AL KOOPER
Projections-era Blues Project is excellent and
underrated imo. As of mid-1966 they were recording heavy
rock tunes that sound more like 1968 _and_ lazy hippie
tunes that sound more like 1968.
Joseph Scott
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Message: 5
Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2002 17:46:51 EST
From: Michael Rashkow
Subject: Re: Yes we're going to a party, party
In a message dated 1/19/2002, le_page_web wrote
> Mickey's Monkey - Miracles
This song is usually left out of everyone's Smokey
Robinson list, but I remember it as a big hit in
L.A.--always thought it a great track.
Rashkovsky
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Message: 6
Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2002 15:58:40 EST
From: Bruce Kerr
Subject: Re: musica/Janie Grant/Diane Renay
Jamie,
Thanks for your kind words re "No Gold" and the Byz. Emp.
songs. I hadn't heard them in 30 years 'til a member
[played] them.
And great to hear you tick off the influences in "No
Gold." I think you're dead on, though I don't know who
Concrete & Clay are...
Best Regards,
Bruce
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Message: 7
Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2002 18:13:49 -0000
From: "Martin Roberts"
Subject: Kiwi Baiting
Sorry, before any irate Kiwi's (are there any Kiwis-irate
or otherwise on the list?) write in, I had a closer look
at Janie's EP and although it is copyright in Australia &
New Zealand the record shows it was made in New Zealand.
A shame my scanner is on the blink because the EP "Janie
Grant Sings" looks great. Hard shiny cardboard, Janie's
face (same as Spectropop pic.) on left with pink lipstick
kisses on the right and back (not mine I hasten to add)
and for the space allowed quite a good 'biography'.
...started singing when she was eight...stealing the show,
....little Miss Grant remembers "the night I recorded
Triangle", as the most thrilling event in her life, Gerry
Granaham....heard her singing at a party...captured "the
sound of the sixties"...her hobbies ..guitar, dancing,
swimming and record collecting etc.etc.
Tracks "Roller Coaster", "Oh Johnny", "Greasy Kids Stuff"
and I Wonder Who's Kissing Her Now". The music? Like I
said.....great looking EP! Little bit of twisting from
Frank and two great sounding Janie Grant's on musica.
Martin
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Message: 8
Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2002 08:54:51 +0900
From: "Spectropop Administration"
Subject: INTENTIONALLY DELETED
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Message: 9
Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2002 12:27:49 -0600
From: "Robert Conway"
Subject: Re :When songwriting starts to suck
Frank wrote:
>1) They only had so much in them and after a while there
>was nothing interesting left so they had to use tricks
>over talent in order to stay on.
>
>2) Another theory (which I found obvious in the case of
>movie directors and which I think could apply to music)
>is that a newcomer is really eager to do his thing. Then
>with success also comes criticism (I mean good ones) in
>the press and from then on everything is lost. When they
>start to believe what's written about them, they're lost
>to their art. I'm pretty much convinced this is what
>happened to Neil Diamond, Billy Joel, Elton John and
>quite a few others.
Frank: I go with your #2. It is much the same way with
authors. Some have a book or two in 'em and then they go
back to academia or whatever while others develop a loyal
following that keeps their careers alive rehashing the
same story lines.
I recall an interesting article from some forgotten music
mag (circa 1977-1978) that talked about recording artists
(who compose most of their own material) in terms of
their first three LPs. As an example the author chose to
look at Pure Prairie League. ANYBODY OUT THERE RECALL
READING THIS ARTICLE? Anyhow, the article touted your #2
theory not just for PPL but for the majority of recording
artists.
One last comment: Try the new Elton John/Bernie Taupin
CD--for whatever reason the early magic is back...at
least for this CD.
Bob Conway
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Message: 10
Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2002 07:49:15 -0600
From: Dan Hughes
Subject: Re :When songwriting starts to suck
Frank writes:
> 1) They only had so much in them and after a while there
> was nothing interesting left so they had to use tricks
> over talent in order to stay on.
>
> 2) A newcomer is really eager to do his thing. Then
> with success also comes criticism (I mean good ones) in
> the press and from then on everything is lost. When they
> start to believe what's written about them, they're lost
> to their art.
Jeez Frank, you're reading my mind. Both of your points
are absolutely valid. Some songwriters had one good song
in them, and others (several early British blues bands,
like the Moodies especially) were told too many times
they were Artists and so spurned their roots.
A couple of other thoughts
1. The songwriter didn't start to suck. It's just that
the listener couldn't keep up. As the songs get more
intricate, so to speak, the listener can't assimilate
that intricacy. That is, the songwriter evolved beyond
the listener's meager capabilities. (Not that I
necessarily agree with this theory; creeping
pretentiousness is lost on me).
2. The Peter Principle sets in. The songwriter has
risen to his level of incompetency. (For those not
familiar with the Peter Principle, it says that as long
as you do a good job you get promoted. When you finally
reach a level you can't do well, you get no more
promotions. So for the rest of your life you are stuck
with a job you do badly. The end result is that every
job is eventually given--permanently--to someone who
cannot perform it).
3. As the songwriters fame grows and he is paid more and
more money, he feels guilty. To give the adoring public
their moneys' worth, he feels he must spend more and more
time working and reworking each new song, until all the
freshness and spontaneity is gone.
---Dan, http://members.soltec.net/~dan
(spiffy home page)
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Message: 11
Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2002 20:49:47 -0000
From: "Martin Roberts"
Subject: Re Janie Grant. A Warning!!
Feel it's my duty to warn Spectropopers about another
Janie on UA "Priceless Possesion"/"That Kind Of Boy".
"Priceless..." is pleasent, glad I've got it but it ain't
no "I Shouldn't Care". More an update of her Caprice
material. Do look out for her Parkway release though "
And That Reminds Me" Punky Soul-Beat. (Janie, Punky
Soul-Beat??!!) Strewth!
Martin
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Message: 12
Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2002 12:46:42 EST
From: James Botticelli
Subject: Silk Purses or Sow's Ears?
AZ asks:
> So I want to ask for opinions on how songwriters start
> to suck.
Reverting again to cliche, one can make only so many silk
purses from sow's ears..JB
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Message: 13
Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2002 12:53:37 EST
From: James Botticelli
Subject: Casey Kasem
> I'm Ronnie Allen. I formerly worked as the east coast
> writer/researcher/and interview for Casey Kasem's
> American Top Forty (from 1972 through 1987).
Welcome aboard Ronnie....you've come to a pretty groovy
little list...low on inflated egos, yet very high on
knowledge.
Have you ever heard that recording circulating by Casey
Kasem about the little girl who's dog just died? Casey's
trying to read it straight-faced over one of his up
tempo numbers. He stumbles over one particularly
"touching" sequence and COMPLETELY loses it!. He cusses
out the girl, the f____' dog, the song, his job,
everything he has to be grateful for!. It is
hysterical...It was set to music by British Breakbeater
Jacknife Lee a couple of years back. The juxtaposition
of this "Top-40" hustler and his swearing is poetic
justice at its finest!....JB
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Message: 14
Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2002 17:10:50 EST
From: Paul Urbahns
Subject: Hullabaloo and Shindig -- Again
Guy wrote:
> I notice that several volumes of Hullabaloo are
> available on VHS and DVD in the States. Has anybody
> got them? Do I have to reach for my credit card again?
Got'em all on DVD. Well worth the money until someone
wises up and issues the superior Shindig shows on DVD or
VHS. Rhino cut the series apart as "themed" releases by
artist. OK but spoils the feeling of "watching it"
Strangeloves? They are at the Hullabaloo A Go Go set and
probably a typical Hullabaloo lip sync of the record. As
I recall its three guys beating on drums.
Paul Urbahns
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Message: 15
Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2002 12:43:27 EST
From: James Botticelli
Subject: Remixing
> It's the principle of re-mixing that I am a little
> uncertain of. Can you convince me of a need for it?
Its the ol' "different strokes for different folks"
concept...certain beats and grooves work better than
others with certain people...Also, the other ol' "variety
is the spice of life" can be applied...JB/living cliche
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Message: 16
Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2002 08:32:05 EST
From: Scott
Subject: Re: Fifth Avenue Band
I read the email on The Fifth Avenue Band and knew I had
the LP somewhere in my collection, but I couldn't
remember much about it ... Anyhow, I finally found it
and gave it a couple of spins. Not bad - certainly won't
change your life, but quiote commercial.
There's also a second Fifth Avenue Band LP - it was
released in 1990 by the Japanese Pony Canyon LP. Can't
tell you anything else about it.
Scott
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Message: 17
Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2002 11:58:38 -0500
From: "Vincent Degiorgio"
Subject: Burt in Canadian press
http://www.canoe.ca/JamMusic/jan20_bacharach-sun.html
Pretty lengthy,
Vincent
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Message: 18
Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2002 20:10:15 +0000
From: Simon White
Subject: Jaynets
Does anyone in Spectropopland have a track listing
for the Jaynets album Sally Go Round The Roses on Tuff ?
I know someone does....
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Message: 19
Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2002 12:14:06 -0800
From: "Tom Knott"
Subject: Brian Wilson/Smile - Mojo Magazine
The Feb issue of Mojo Magazine has a fairly in-depth
article by Rob Chapman on the "Smile" album.
tom
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Message: 20
Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2002 20:57:02 +0000
From: "Don Charles"
Subject: Jeff Barry's Greatest Hits
> Don Charles: re: Jeff Barry's Greatest Hits, how could
> you forget the first two Raindrops hits, or his
> brilliant solo on Red Bird, "I'll Still Love You," the
> best Marvin Gaye song Marvin Gaye never did?
The Raindrops' second hit, "The Kind Of Boy You Can't
Forget" IS on my Top 25 list. If it wasn't, I simply
missed typing it! The list was hit singles-oriented,
which is why the wonderful "I'll Still Love You" wasn't
included . . . but you'd best believe that's definitely
one of my personal faves.
Don Charles
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Message: 21
Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2002 22:28:01 +0100
From: "J.H. Ket"
Subject: Re: Mojo Men
> What CD is this MP3 from? Great track, and I can
> understand why you would play it after the Kit Kats, a
> very simular sound. Kind of reminds me of the Hollies in
> their Evolution/Butterfly era! I have heard about the
> Mojo Men (besides hearing "Sit Down, I Think I Love You"
> for decades), but never bought any of the Sundazed CD's.
I'm sorry I don't have more info on the "Mojo Men -
Should I cry" track. But is it possible that there were
two groups under the name of Mojo Men? The "Should I cry
- group" sounds completely different from the "Freak-Beat
Mojo Men" who recorded "She's my baby".
Does anyone have some information?
Hans Ket
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Message: 22
Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2002 11:33:05 -0500
From: "Vincent Degiorgio"
Subject: Re: Re-mixing
John wrote:
> It's the principle of re-mixing that I am a little
> uncertain of. Can you convince me of a need for it?
John, sometimes curiosity of what a song or album from
the past would sound like in stereo may be the
inspiration for enhancing a past recording. The modern
day club world the remix has become a product of
talentless overkill. But, some of these 50's and 60's
mixes, especially in Moulton's case, is a labour of love
in order to try--and I do use the word 'try' in the most
honest sense, to provide a fuller finished product in the
eyes of today. Because of the minimal instrumentation
that was good enough, tight enough and recorded well
enough to be put through this remixing process now, it
sometimes allows a vocal to be raised in the over all mix
that may have been buried. Sometimes, it also allows
certain instruments to to be equalized and panned in such
a way to open up the sound of the original recording and
in stereo for the first time.
The other reason may be the re-use or fraying of a two
track master would give purpose for someone to go in and
attempt to use the master tape to generate a new two
track master. And with that opportunity, certain minimal
liberties can take place. Tom was constantly asking me
for a multi track and/or stereo copy of Canadian pop idol
Bobby Curtola's "Fortune Teller" for the same reason.
In addition, new technologies being used in the mastering
process does allow the enhancement of the original two
track tapes without an actual remix.
During my RCA tenure, there was suggestion that we remix
tracks from the Elvis Presley catalogue and give them an
update. Needless to say, I approached the idea with much
hesitation. The song I chose first to review was
Suspicious Minds. Going into the RCA studios the only
thing I could think about it was "Mister, this is ELVIS
we're dealing with. Don't do a thing if you think it
would affect that fan base"...
We put the master reel on the machine and the 16 track
tape started to flow. The first thing I noticed is that
Elvis was talking on the tape. OK, I was a kid in heaven
now. Next step was getting everything on the board. I
soon noticed that the horns were not on the master. They
were recorded live over top of the multi track tape.
After listening to this tape and recording itself, I felt
that I could not tamper with a legacy of an artist and
his fan base. We had the permission of the estate to
explore it, and felt that NO was the appropriate answer.
It was a remix that was completely unnecessary. The
recording in its originally intended form was good enough.
This is one example where it doesn't make any sense.
With regards to Moulton, his legacy is pretty much
untouchable, but the favourites here are More More More
by Andrea True where he added so much to it a record
happened, Disco Inferno---the album version was actually
a 3 minute song and the 11 minute work is actually a
successive number of adaptations of the original multi
tracks original sections reworked and Devil's Gun by CJ
and Company. The latter's ending becomes the intro of one
of disco's best ever records.
Hope this helps or gives another opinion worth
considering.
Vincent
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Message: 23
Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2002 21:47:59 -0000
From: "Kingsley Abbott"
Subject: Wonderful Majors
Mick P rightly predicted that "A Wonderful Dream" would
be on the Majors' Collectables CD. It is indeed the lead
off track, and it also features their other main song
"She's a Troublemaker". Only problem is that there are
only ten tracks in total, totally only around 22 minutes
- bit meagre huh! Virtually no notes either. Still, if
you wanted the details it was COL CD 5249.
Re Al Kooper - don't forget the lovely Tokens' original
of "The Water Is Over My Head". Jay Seigal's voice sat
really well on that one.
Anyone into The Boys Next Door??....No...I meant the
GROUP...
Kingsley Abbott
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Message: 24
Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2002 17:46:51 EST
From: Michael Rashkow
Subject: Re: It ain't fair
Ken writes:
> Interesting that you thought Barry Mann was the primo
> composer of the Brill bunch. Better than even Bacharach?
Ken: I never really thought of Burt as a Brill Building
writer. I think he worked out of his Fifth Avenue
penthouse.
Rashkovsky
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Message: 25
Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2002 12:58:59 +0000
From: Richard Havers
Subject: The Rock Machine
Slightly....oh well, very off topic, but can any British
Spectropopper tell me the track listings for The Rock
machine Turns You On and Rock machine I Love You.
Thanks in anticipation
Richard
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