when one knows that there is time to go back to more gradual path? if few years passed and there is no real recognition, would it be wise to consider oneself as not having high capacity and try to find more gradual teacher? I remember someone was writing on e-sangha that some people stick with DC for too long without any progress. PS it is not so easy to check with the teacher as there are thousand of students.

Thank you!

Disdaining the lower and unable to grasp the higher,talking of emptiness, such a person will neglect cause and effect,mouthing on about the view while in a state of self-deception.It would be better to concentrate on the gradual path.

rai wrote:when one knows that there is time to go back to more gradual path? if few years passed and there is no real recognition, would it be wise to consider oneself as not having high capacity and try to find more gradual teacher? I remember someone was writing on e-sangha that some people stick with DC for too long without any progress. PS it is not so easy to check with the teacher as there are thousand of students.

Thank you!

Maybe just try a teacher that it is more easy to have a personal discussion with. Anyway, even if it feels impossible it is normally not impossible to see even the most busy teachers but it takes some guts and strength.

/magnus

We are all here to help each other go through this, whatever it is.~Kurt Vonnegut

"To reject practice by saying, 'it is conceptual!' is the path of fools. A tendency of the inexperienced and something to be avoided."- Longchenpa

"Even though you have recognized your essence, if you do not get accustomed to it,You will be carried away by the enemy of thoughts, like a small child in a battle field.So long as you are not free from the limitations of accepting and rejecting,That long will you not recognize the view of the innermost secret heart-essence."

rai wrote:when one knows that there is time to go back to more gradual path? if few years passed and there is no real recognition, would it be wise to consider oneself as not having high capacity and try to find more gradual teacher? I remember someone was writing on e-sangha that some people stick with DC for too long without any progress. PS it is not so easy to check with the teacher as there are thousand of students.

Thank you!

I went from Vajrayana to Dzogchen back to Vajrayana. Don't come down on yourself because your "low capacity". Ask yourself if you enjoy your current practice and if you see a positive effect of your practice in daily life. I readily admit I am "low capacity"

How foolish you are, grasping the letter of the text and ignoring its intention! - Vasubandhu

rai wrote:when one knows that there is time to go back to more gradual path? if few years passed and there is no real recognition, would it be wise to consider oneself as not having high capacity and try to find more gradual teacher? I remember someone was writing on e-sangha that some people stick with DC for too long without any progress. PS it is not so easy to check with the teacher as there are thousand of students.

Thank you!

I went from Vajrayana to Dzogchen back to Vajrayana. Don't come down on yourself because your "low capacity". Ask yourself if you enjoy your current practice and if you see a positive effect of your practice in daily life. I readily admit I am "low capacity"

Me 2, and its had a much better affect on my mind and life, and some of the dzogpa chenpo stuff actually makes more sense now.

--another 'low-cap'

"Things are not what they appear to be: nor are they otherwise." --Surangama Sutra

Phenomenon, vast as space, dharmata is your base, arising and falling like ocean tide cycles, why do i cling to your illusion of unceasing changlessness?

rai wrote:when one knows that there is time to go back to more gradual path? if few years passed and there is no real recognition, would it be wise to consider oneself as not having high capacity and try to find more gradual teacher? I remember someone was writing on e-sangha that some people stick with DC for too long without any progress. PS it is not so easy to check with the teacher as there are thousand of students.

rai wrote:when one knows that there is time to go back to more gradual path? if few years passed and there is no real recognition, would it be wise to consider oneself as not having high capacity and try to find more gradual teacher? I remember someone was writing on e-sangha that some people stick with DC for too long without any progress. PS it is not so easy to check with the teacher as there are thousand of students.

Thank you!

Capacity depends on personal interest and diligence -- nothing more.

N

Oh, I thought it was based on the intelligence of the practitioner to grasp the teachings. Thanks for the clarification.

How foolish you are, grasping the letter of the text and ignoring its intention! - Vasubandhu

We are told Trekcho is basically relaxing body, speech (all energies) and mind and their various levels as one vajra with a central thigle ( of guru yoga). And with that letting all thoughts, sense inputs and surrounding world just flow through automatically with immediate observing and recognition of their type, without engaging or blocking. Sometimes desiring something or looking for it or at it's signs is the worst thing so not looking for it might help as stated in some Dzogchen tantras. There are other points, it might be working in the deep undercurrents. It helps in future lifetimes and bardo too. ChNNR says those who receive Dzogchen transmissions have the highest capacity on this earth. That means several tens of thousands under various masters from 6+ billion. He also says the least it does apart from other benefits is that in the long run one gets more relaxed if nothing else. We are also told when it starts to work very seriously, different obstacles and past lives' karmas and trials come up. But they are much preferred to other inevitable alternative scenarios over future lifetimes. In such hard times subtle clingings have to purged. However they will pass and we are told the best refuge at such hard times is the guru(s)'s vast state which is in our heart center anyway, inseparable from Padmasambhava and his two main consorts. There is no easy way out for any sentient being.

rai wrote:when one knows that there is time to go back to more gradual path? if few years passed and there is no real recognition, would it be wise to consider oneself as not having high capacity and try to find more gradual teacher? I remember someone was writing on e-sangha that some people stick with DC for too long without any progress. PS it is not so easy to check with the teacher as there are thousand of students.

Thank you!

Capacity depends on personal interest and diligence -- nothing more.

N

Oh, I thought it was based on the intelligence of the practitioner to grasp the teachings. Thanks for the clarification.

Nope, it is based solely on your karmic connection with the teachings. If you have that, then you have capacity -- whether it is high, low or medium capacity depends solely on your efforts and interests.

My dzogchen teachers have never taught it as anything outside of the lamrim.Well, better put: the lamrim is contextualized by dzogchen, and so the idea of having to "leave" dzogchen practice to do some other aspect of dharma practice, whether bodhicitta, kye rim or trulkor... just doesn't make sense.I'm trying to come up with an appropriate analogy, but can't.Whenever you find yourself reifying appearances, practice your yidam. This doesn't mean you're somehow "cheating" on your dzogchen teacher.

Similarly we are often told for Dzogchenpas it is more effective (not the only way though) to connect with one's previously karmically connected masters as well as relevant terma cycles in the current lifetime, both for recognition and progress potentials. Also in Dzogchen after receiving the lineage's Direct Introduction to the nature of mind and if not successful initially, masters often give methods so one can recognize rigpa even on one's own. So there are many options.

Besides the transmission comes as a reslult of devotion, the blessings, which is a kind of mind which comes together with the cycle of Dzogchen teaching(s).These blessings are very needed because it "opens" the mind to receive the teachingsTeachings are at this moment very clear and reflecting due to the blessingsTo get these blessings one must practice Guru Yoga in Bon Dzogchen. This Guru Yoga is mostly connected to the Master of that specific Dzogchen lineage, like Drenpa Namkha in the Bon Indian Dzogchen cycle :"The Yetri Thasel".

So the blessings stem or come here from Drenpa Namkha whereas the Tsawi Lama does the transmission.......

Best wishesKY

THOUGH A MAN BE LEARNEDIF HE DOES NOT APPLY HIS KNOWLEDGEHE RESEMBLES THE BLIND MANWHO WITH A LAMP IN THE HAND CANNOT SEE THE ROAD

Yontan wrote:My dzogchen teachers have never taught it as anything outside of the lamrim.Well, better put: the lamrim is contextualized by dzogchen

I think the same could be said about the Abhidharmakosa if it's about knowing one's real state.

Absolutely. If you have to leave Buddhism to practice dzogchen, you aren't practicing dzogchen.

Tashi delek Yonten,

Absolutely. If you have to leave Buddhism to practice dzogchen, you aren't practicing dzogchen, did you wrote.

I have a few questions to you:

- What does Buddhism incorporate inside the Dzogchen?- Is Dzogchen based on teachings stemming from Buddha Shakyamuni?- In case of yes how is this Dzogchen lineage called and which Dzogchen Masters are included?- Can one practioce Dzogchen without being a Buddhist?- What is a Buddhist or when can one call oneself a Buddhist?

Thanks in advance for your attention

Best wishesKY

THOUGH A MAN BE LEARNEDIF HE DOES NOT APPLY HIS KNOWLEDGEHE RESEMBLES THE BLIND MANWHO WITH A LAMP IN THE HAND CANNOT SEE THE ROAD