We all want that feeling, of being of value and being acknowledged. That the first to do would get undying loyalty could be dangerous though

“You, are a rebellious son who abandoned his father. You are a cruel brigand who murdered his lord. How can Heaven and Earth put up with you for long? And unless you die soon, how can you face the sight of men?”

No doubt, I wouldn't say I would go out of my way for just anyone though. I talk more along the people like Liu beI or Cao Cao. Not people like lu bu who are notorious for betrayal. If I were to serve someone it'd be someone who had a lot of charisma. I also have this inner thing with me where I rather die going down in the pages of history rather than live a safe life achieving nothing. It's just who I am though

I understand the wish to serve someone great, to be part of something great. I imagine most of us feel that from time to time, to be part of something more then ourselves. Though in practise, pinpointing a truly great figure is a lot harder then people tend to think, we do wish we found that great figure.

Death, even a noble death under a powerful kingdom like Zhang Yi's, does not guarantee a place in history despite a moving death whereas Zhao Yun, Zhuge Liang, Jiang Wan, Fei Yi, Chen Shou secured their places in history without dying.

“You, are a rebellious son who abandoned his father. You are a cruel brigand who murdered his lord. How can Heaven and Earth put up with you for long? And unless you die soon, how can you face the sight of men?”

That's true and Liu beI was also a traitor, I guess, but Liu bei was known for his charisma so I guess I may be hypocritical, but I'd still do it none the less :p also I could see you being someone like Xun you who gives amazing advice to his lord. Based off your posts

greencactaur wrote:That's true and Liu beI was also a traitor, I guess, but Liu bei was known for his charisma so I guess I may be hypocritical, but I'd still do it none the less :p

I was teasing, don't worry. We all do that (my bias and hypocrisy tends towards Cao Cao)

also I could see you being someone like Xun you who gives amazing advice to his lord. Based off your posts

I'm not that brave I would probably be (if not dead in youth), either stuck in trade given background or mid-ranking civil servant of whoever was my local lord. If I could find the love that Xun Can felt, I would be happy

“You, are a rebellious son who abandoned his father. You are a cruel brigand who murdered his lord. How can Heaven and Earth put up with you for long? And unless you die soon, how can you face the sight of men?”

First of all, if I were born in that period I hope I weren't born as a woman! Low-class women had relatively more freedom but had to endure poverty, hard labor and non-stop pregnancies (not to mention all the horrors of the civil war). Being a wife or a concubine of a wealthy man may seem like a better deal (safer, at least), but psychologically it could have been even worse - being stuck in a cage for life. "Dream of the Red Chamber" (one of my most favourite books), "Jin Ping Mei", Zhang Imou's movie "Raise the red lantern" paint quite a depressing picture. Freedom has always been very important for me, so I'd probably rebel against the norms of the Confucian society - and, as a natural result, would have been crushed by it.

I've always enjoyed reading about court power struggles, intrigues and elaborate plots, so, given an opportunity, it would have been interesting to take part in them myself! But in the end I'd probably loose everything including my own head because of my own carelessness - at least in chess I usually lose because I'm too concentrated on attacking and don't pay enough attention to the danger to my own pieces.

If I had lived in a relatively peaceful area, I would travel across the country, learn from various wise people and then live in a hut somewhere in the mountains (far from the war), playing my xiao flute, practicing calligraphy and composing poetry.

Otherwise I'd join the most sane (that's important! ) and powerful lord out there - and simply try to survive.

Dong Zhou wrote:Death, even a noble death under a powerful kingdom like Zhang Yi's, does not guarantee a place in history despite a moving death whereas Zhao Yun, Zhuge Liang, Jiang Wan, Fei Yi, Chen Shou secured their places in history without dying.

That's actually a fairly curious thing to say - Zhang Yi did get a guaranteed place in history. It may not have near the pinnacle, but given that 60-80 million people lived during the Later Han and 30-45 million lived at the start of Western Jin's unification, and there's about a hundred years between them, so let's say about 150 million people lived, breathed, and died during this time period. We know... how many? Not much. We know a few of the noblest gentry, the most talented scholars and military men, and the most favored individuals. Of them, we know the most about the Wei-Jin court at that. We cannot even come up with a list of every major position in the empire being filled, nor even how many children some of the most famous men and women in China had - especially women. The Shi family of Jiaozhi and the Gongsun family of You were vast expansive networks, but we know almost nothing about them apart from their main leaders. Which is, in a way, far better than we can say about most smaller warlords who died off in the formation of the three kingdoms.

To get your name mentioned in an appendix with the proper pronunciation and your styled name recorded seems like an achievement that almost none could approach in that period. With that in mind, I think Zhang Yi did a fair good job getting himself lodged in history! Even Zhuge Liang's younger brother seems to get almost completely forgotten in history.

Alone I lean under the wispy shade of an aged tree,Scornfully I raise to parted lips a cup of warm wine,Longingly I cast an empty vessel aside those exposed roots,And leave behind forgotten memories and forsaken dreams.