Translated:"... the actual fraud [was] i.m.o committed by Stadermann and Over de Linden [...] who thought they could make a lot of money from the manuscript or a publication of it."

The facts are in strong contrast to your speculation, which undermines your whole theory:

Letter Verwijs to Over de Linden (16-10-1867):"mag ik [...] een voorstel doen met U te onderhandelen over de overname?"
=> "may I do a proposal to negotiate with you about selling it?"

Letter Over de Linden to Verwijs (17-10-1867):"Een familiestuk dat zoo ter bewaring wordt aanbevolen mag men zijne kinderen niet ontvreemden, dus niet verkoopen."
and "ik wil het toch voor geen waarde ruilen"
=> "One can´t take an inherited family treasure, that is advised to be protected in this way, from ones children, so it can´t be sold."
and "I don´t want to sell it for any price"

Verwijs in his report to the Provincial Executive of Friesland (17-12-1867):"Hij eiste bepaaldelijk dat het oude Hs. [Oera Linda Boek] eerst in zijn geheel voor hem vertaald. Was dit geschied, kende hij er den inhoud van, dan zoude hij er volstrekt niet tegen zijn dat het Hs. werd uitgegeven, mits het maar niets bevatte dat zijne familie kon compromitteeren!"
=> "He demanded explicitly that the old manuscript [OLB] would first all be translated for him. When this was done, and he knew the content, he would by no means object publication, as long as it did not contain anything that could compromise his family."

Never (when he had the chance) did Over de Linden make an attemt to make money from selling it or from publication.
This means that your speculation about Over de Linden and Stadermann hoping to make money from it is nonsense.

===

Posted 06 January 2014 - 05:27 PM

Abramelin, on 04 January 2014 - 11:26 PM, said:

If you can read and understand the language used in the OLB, you can read and understand Dutch.
It is not that different at all, and it should be no surprise it isn't.

Knul, on 06 January 2014 - 12:20 PM, said:

To understand the OLB completely one should know Dutch, English, Frisian, German and Latin plus various Dutch and Frisian dialects, (e.g. myk - made in Prov. Zeeland). I know one person who knew all of them: J.H. Halbertsma.

You have the illusion that the language of the OLB is so easy to understand (for who has a basic knowledge of languages), but from the start you had a translation at hand and I doubt that you ever read und undersood it all without one.

Eelco Verwijs (1830-1880), who was one of the best and most famous linguists of his time, and who published about etymology, had so much trouble translating it, that he gave up after a few years (!), although he was very interested.

Read the following fragments from letters by Verwijs (my translation, original text below):

1) 1867 june 28 - to J.F. Jansen
"This morning I copied a whole speech which is not all clear to me yet, but which, as far as I could judge from the copy, is most curious."

2) 1867 oct. 13 - to C. Over de Linden (OdL)
"As I said, I was overjoyed with the discovery and told many of my friends. Part of it was quite easy to understand and, although seeming to be of younger age, not different from the language of the Oldfrisian laws from the 13th and 14th century. But there were also fragments, that I didn't and still don't understand and that will take much meticulous study, before I can clarify them."

3) 1867 oct. 16 - to OdL
"I really can't promise you the translation of a separate part, as there are difficulties in it, that may take weeks of study."

4) 1867 oct. 19 - to OdL
"It certainly is a manuscript from one of your ancestors - which means your family is very old - , that was copied many times and by all means deserves to become known. [...] The importance of the manuscript will give the ancient name of the Oera Linda's a radiance, brighter than any of the oldest noble families."

5) 1868 nov. 21 - to OdL
"The case is of enough interest to me, to finally dive into it properly."

6) 1869 may 17 - to OdL
"Then I hope to take the whole with me in this summer holiday and start translating."

7) 1869 nov. 11 - to OdL
"I finally return the manuscript to you, but you will be sorry that the translation is still missing. [...] Here and there translation is very easy and it can be done at first sight; but other parts contain difficulties, that take much time and study. But I hope to be able to help you soon now."

8) 1869 nov. 11 - to J. Winkler
"Here and there translation is easy, but there are also quite some difficulties and unknown words. I know that if I would start, I would not rest before I have solved them, and that way I would spend much too much time on it. [...] The case is of much interest to me, so I don't want to fully withdraw from it. [...] Such an etymological quest is very much of my liking, [...] It's odd that it contains some very old words and that also the forms point at a previous linguistic era, while other expressions sound so very modern." [Verwijs could not (or hardly) imagine that some expressions were old, which does not prove that they could not in fact have neen old.]

Yes, I had a translation at hand, and that is how I learned OLBan. As soon as I got the hang of it, I did the translations on my own, as you WELL KNOW.

Which you could not have done without the existing translations.

Quote

My translations were often different from Ottema's and Sandbach's, and I based those translations on my high-school knowledge of Middle/Old Dutch, and what I discovered online, using Old Frisian, Old Norse, and Old/Middle Dutch dictionaries. Dictionaries not available to both Ottema and Sandbach.

Neither were those dictionaries available to your supposed creator(s).

So you think you made some minor improvements here and there.
That doesn't mean the whole book can easily be understood for anyone with the basic knowlege that you have.

As for the similaries between Fryan and modern Dutch and Frisian;
There are also such similarities between Fryan and German and Scandic languages, as there are between those languages themselves. Some terms and expressions have survived in this, some in that language. What else could we expect from a real ancient text? You would be surprised how many Fryan words survived to-the-letter in Norse and Icelandic (while being very different from Dutch).

And again: your only 'proof' is that you can't imagine that some words are that old.
That is no valid evidence at all.

Many breakthroughs in science have happened in the past that people could not imagine before they were accepted reality.

===

Posted 07 January 2014 - 07:19 AM

Knul, on 06 January 2014 - 09:16 PM, said:

Unfortunately, you overlooked that he [Verwijs] called the OLB nonsense of recent date, a joke etc.

He didn't use those words. I challenge you to quote him. He got a good job in Leiden working on a big dictionary and he will have feared to waste his reputation, as public opinion already turned against the OLB. His new bosses in 'Holland' may not have liked the possible political implications of the book either.

Quote

By the way, Verwijs was no Oldfrisian specialist and didn't know about dialects like Winkler did.

Winkler may have known something about dialects, but he wasn't able to do the job either.
It is simple psychology (as is the case with Verwijs): rather than admitting he was not able to translate it, it was easier to say he did not want to, because he believed it was fake.

===

Posted 07 January 2014 - 09:00 AM

Knul, on 06 January 2014 - 09:16 PM, said:

Verwijs was no Oldfrisian specialist and didn't know about dialects like Winkler did.

Winkler was a medical doctor (general practitioner) who was interested in dialects and Frisian history, but did he publishanything significant about Oldfrisian, Olddutch or Oldgerman?

Verwijs was more than a specialist Oldfrisian; he was a philologist.
He published about Old- (or 'middle'-) Dutch and etymology.
Winkler was (literally) an amateur compared to Verwijs.

That is why Verwijs was considered to be the main suspect of having created the whole OLB (by De Jong, 1926), or at least its language (by Winkler, Jensma).

In museum Schloß Wilhelmshöhe, Kassel, I saw an interesting painting (1760, Nikolaus Hoffmann).
It has the oldest known (to me) picture of a ´christmas´ tree and, even more interesting a female ´santa´.
Why have I never heard of this before?
At least in some part of Germany this must have been an old tradition, and it may very well go back to the time that the Yule-feast was (also) a celebration of Frya´s invention of the JOL-letters, as described in the OLB.

===

Posted 14 January 2014 - 03:32 PM

NO-ID-EA, on 13 January 2014 - 10:03 PM, said:

Is that supposed to be a nativity scene on the table... or just some toys of the kids ??
Nice lion (of Judah) picture prominently placed on the wall ?

Looks like toys to me.
Yes the lion is remarkably detailed.
The old Frisian coat of arms was two lions (yellow on blue) and the one of the counts of Frisia (later Holland) was a lion too (red on yellow).
Flanders (Belgium) has a black lion on yellow and current Netherlands a yellow lion on blue.
So no reason to assume any link to judea.

Netherlands:

Flanders (southern Netherlands):

Holland:

Friesland (incl. Westfriesland):

===

Posted 14 January 2014 - 04:55 PM

Also worth considering is:

1) this line from the OLB (Sandbach p.17):

"Powerful Frya! At the glance of her eye the lion lay down at her feet"

2) the fact that Frya is associated with cats:

3) the Germanic tribe-name Chatti (= cats? = lions?)

===

Posted 15 January 2014 - 09:22 AM

NO-ID-EA, on 13 January 2014 - 10:03 PM, said:

Nice lion (...) picture prominently placed on the wall?

I had a little revelation:

In the OLB the word for lion(s) is exactly the same as the verb to believe: "LÁWA".

I asked the scribbler for a source and if he knew an example of such an attack. He answered that he had promised his anonymous source to not reveil any details in order to protect him/her.

I found a fascinating possible piece of the puzzle.

Jensma suggested (don't recall where exactly now) that the OLB had made 'victims' (people who believed in its authenticity).
Other authors have suggested that it would be a product of dark forces.

In 1983 Jensma acted (main character) in a short film, titled "Stof tot Stilte" (he used the name Goffe Theunis).

This film can very well be seen as an allegory about the OLB.

The plot in short:
A young photographer falls in love with a mysterious, unattainable woman who was in the background of some photos he took.
He does not know that the woman was sent there on purpose by an man (fate, doom?), to make him the victim of his evil plot.
He gets obsessed with her and enters a limbo of doubt: Does she still live, is she real at all?
At the end he meets her, but she somehow dissappoints him, anyway he looses his mind and commits suicide.
The film ends with the mysterious evil man looking for a new victim.

See and decide for yourself:

If someone from the group of friends who made this film got obsessed with the OLB, lost his mind and/ or commited suicide, this would explain the fear around the OLB that I sense in Jensma's book (and in Friesland in general). Psychologically it is a well known mechanism to ridicule or demonise something that is feared. (Just speculating out loud.)

===

Posted 18 January 2014, 11:33 AM

Knul, on 18 January 2014 - 09:47 AM, said:

... Dr. J.H. Halbertsma

IF Halbertsma would have written the OLB,

1) it would have been more than a masterpiece and he would have known that. He would have wanted the honour. His family would have known that he had worked on it.
2) he would have included Hindelopen, which he was convinced to be the most pristine Frisian city.
3) why would the family Over de Linden (Ovira Linda, Oera Linda) have been included?
4) how would it have gotten into the hands over Over de Linden and/ or Stadermann?

===

Posted 19 January 2014, 10:21 AM

Knul, on 19 January 2014 - 10:06 AM, said:

Who else could have written it ?

That Halberstma did not write it, does not mean someone else must have written it.
Start considering the possibility that it is authentic and all will begin to make much more sense.

(Shlomo Felberbaum, 2003)And they name Dionysus Orotaltand Urania Alilat.
~wikipedia/Orotalt"According to the 5th century BCE Greek historian Herodotus, Orotalt was a god of Pre-Islamic Arabia whom he identified with Dionysus [...]Merriam-Webster's Encyclopedia of World Religions states that Orotalt is a phonetic transcription of the name of the sun god Ruda."

wikipedia/Ruda (deity)"Ruda is a deity that was of paramount importance in the Arab pantheon of gods worshipped by the North Arabian tribes of pre-Islamic Arabia. [...]The oldest reference to Ruda is found in the annals of Esarhaddon who ruled over the Assyrian empire from 681 to 669 BC. The name is transliterated into English from the original Akkadian as Ru-ul-da-a-a-ú and he is mentioned among the gods of the Arabs."

wikipedia/Ruldaiu"Ruldaiu was a god featured in Arab mythology according to the Annals of Sennacherib (eighth century BC). Arabic inscriptions mention a god called Ruda. Herodotus calls him Ortalt."~http://nabataea.net/kedar.html (Dan Gibson)Regarding their religion, Assyrian inscriptions tell us that Sennacherib captured of several Arabian deities in the Kedarite city of Dumah. The chief deity was Atarsamain, or the morning star of heaven. (the counterpart of Mesopotamian Ishtar). The tribal league led by the Kedarites was known as "the confederation of Atarsamain, and their cult was led by a series of queen-priestesses in Dumah. The rest of their pantheon of gods consisted of Dai, Nuhai (Nuhay), Ruldai (Ruda), Abirillu, and Atarquruma. Rock graffiti in the Thamudic language reveals that Ruda was known as the evening star, and Nuhay was the sun-god, and they were worshiped in addition to Atarsamain 'the morning star.' Herodotus, in the fifth century BC identified two deities worshiped among the Arabs, as a fertility god called Orotalt (perhaps Ruda, as identified by Macdonald in North Arabian in the First Millennium BC, 1360), and a sky goddess know as Allat. (Herodotus III,3.) Later Allat became referred to in the masculine form as Allah)
~
RuLDai => RLD => (?) uRaLDa (wRaLDa)

If Urotalt, Orotalt, Ruldai etc. (containing UR & ALD, resp. RLD) was a primal god of some early Arabs (8th c. BCE), this can be most relevant.

In OLB, the word RÉD is used many times, in many varieties.
It is an important term and can be translated in different (though similar) ways:
reason, reasoning, advice, council, argument, consideration, etc.

Triratna or Triratana is a key term in Buddhism, usually translated as Three-Jewels, -Treasures or -Refuges, Triple-Gem or Precious-Triad. That "Tri" means "three" is undisputed.
But "Ratna" or "Ratana" could IMO very well be related to the Oldfrisian plural of RÉD, as shown in the quotes above.
It would surely make sense.

~
BTW, the dutch and german word for wheel ("rad") may also be related as it is a sacred symbol, associated with wisdom:

In Latin, radius not only means beam (of sunlight), but also spoke of a wheel.Wheel in german and dutch is 'rad'.
('Radio' is ofcourse derived from the 'latin' word radius.)

The beauty of the six-spoke wheel or JOL (as it is named in OLB), is that it contains six triangles with sides of equal length (the length of the radius).

Another important term from geometry is ratio(which also means reason).

gestur, on 17 November 2013 - 06:17 PM, said:

In OLB, the word RÉD is used many times, in many varieties.
It is an important term and can be translated in different (though similar) ways:
reason, reasoning, advice, council, argument, consideration, etc.

Plural of the word in OLB is RÉDNE, RÉDENE or RÉDNUM:

In the following posts, I will show other varieties of the OLB-word RÉD, and their etymological implications.

If you want to defend Over de Linden and Stadermann, please give us evidence, that they did not lie and fraud.

A suspect is to be considered innocent, until proven guilty.
The burden of proof lies with the accuser, not with the defender.

Quote

Why did Over de Linden hide the name of Stadermann from Verwijs, Ottema and his grandson ?

"Hide"? He just did not mention te name, probably because it was irrelevant.
How would this proof he lied?

Quote

Why did he come out with the O.L.B. after the dead of Stadermann ?

Why would that be suspect?

Quote

Why did het omit the trip to Enkhuizen in 1845 in his story for his grandson, which has been confirmed by his son-in-law ?

Perhaps he thought it was irrelevant, because the trip had no succes.
As I have argued before, I suspect OdL of a small lie: that he took the OLB under pressure from his niece in 1848, or maybe even without her consent (as her son Hendrik Kofman claimed later), instead of receiving it from his aunt by surprise. But I see no reason to doubt that he had the OLB in his possession since 1848 and that it had been with his family in Enkhuizen before that. Many witnesses confirm this. You think they all lied?

Quote

Why owned Over de Linden learned boks, which he (according to his son and Ottema) could not read and understand ?

He had many interests and wrote much himself. He was self-taught and tried to make sense of the manuscript through study.
What is the source for your claim that Ottema and his son would have thought he could not read or understand those books?

Quote

A grandson of Stadermann wrote to the Frisian Society, that these boooks belonged to his grandfather. Evidence enough, I would say.

So OdL got some books from book-trader Stadermann.
How does this prove anything at all?

Is the best 'evidence' you have?
Using your method, I can prove that Donald Duck and Mickey Mouse wrote the OLB.

=== Posted 20 November 2013 - 10:25 AM

Knul, on 19 November 2013 - 11:10 PM, said:

Cornelis over de Linden himself kept silent about the trip of 1845 and Stadermann.

Cornelis' statements of how he had received the manuscript in 1848 were inconsistent and in confict with other witness accounts.

Cornelis basically claimed that his aunt had given it to him by surprise:

- Letter to Eelco Verwijs (7 Oct. 1867):Some 18 years ago, visiting my family, my aunt gave me two manuscripts, that she had not been allowed to give me when her husband was still alive, although my grandfather had demanded it.

- In a diary (1873 or 1874):Once when I visited my mother and some other family, I was at my aunts at a moment when her second husband Koop Meylhof was not at home. I think it was in the year 1847 or -8. We were in the garden that I loved because I had such good memories of when my grandparents lived there. A pear tree carried three ripe pears that I asked for, saying that since grandfathers death, I had not tasted fruits from this garden. She agreed and said: "Now that you mention your grandfather, I have something for you that I had to keep until you had grown up. Hendrik..." (Hendrik Reuvers was the name of her first husband) "... didn't want me to give it to you, but Koops doesn't know about it, therefore I should give it to you now." I expected something like a watch, but she came back with an old book. Then she said: "This is, as grandfather said, an old Frisian manuscript from our ancestors. He didn't want to give it to your father, because he wasn't interested, therefore I had to keep it for you."I put it under my coat and could hardly hide my disappointment. "You don't seem very happy with it", she said. "But if you knew how much your grandfather loved it, you'd be more happy. I only heard about it, but I believe they are Frisian papers of nobility. Etc." To please her, I showed some more gratitude, and promised that I would learn to read it and that I would tell her what it said. (She died in the year 49. So if she would not had given it to me, Koops would have laid his hands upon it - or one of her children, that are named Reuvers.) One might as well have given me Hebrew, I couldn't read any of it and when I told my wife that they were papers of nobility, she thought it was a joke.

That he would have received the OLB by surprise is in conflict with this:

According to Vinkers ("Wie heeft...?"), Over de Linden's stepson-in-law Jacob Munnik told in 1876, that in 1845 he went with Cornelis and the book-binder Ernst Stadermann from Den Helder, to Over de Linden's mother in Enkhuizen, where he [Cornelis], appearantly without succes, tried to convince her to give him an old family-book.

That he would have received it from his aunt Aafje is in conflict with this:

Hajo Last in Enkhuizer Courant (9 jan. 1934):"Once when he [Cornelis] was visiting in Enkhuizen, he came to his cousin, and that was a widow Kofman[the daughter of aunt Aafje! If this was in the 1840-s, she was not yet a widow], in the Rietdijk, now called the Vijzelstraat [...]. She said to him: 'Kees, I have some old manuscripts here, from your grandfather, and he always said: "Those are meant to be passed on to my heir ['stamhouder']".' That's how his cousin gave them to him; I still remember him saying it, sitting at our table."

That it was given to him voluntarily is in conflict with this statement from the same witness (Hajo Last in E.C. of 9 jan. 1934):

In this article, Last claims that Hein (Hendrik) Kofman, a son of Cornelia Kofman-Reuvers (daughter of aunt Aafje) and colleague of Last had told him: “Cousin Over de Linden stole it from my mother”.
(Note that Hajo Last reported the death of Anna Goemaat (in 1876), the mother of Cornelis. So he must have known the family well.)

So at least someone has been lying here.
It makes most sense to me that Cornelis lied about how he had received it (not that he had obtained it in 1848), simply because he had taken it by force or even without permission. Consider the fact that (he said) he initially believed it contained information about a family treasure.

Quote

I wonder, if you have ever read Ottema's De Koninklijke Akademie and the O.L.B.

Perhaps, I don't remember and don't have it at hand.
If it contains anything important, I will consider translating it for the forum.
Please do post the relevant parts or a link if it is available online.

=== Posted 22 November 2013 - 04:34 PM

Brand new discovery:

ANFANGA = αναφαινω, αμφαινω

In the following eleven fragments, I have translated ANFANG(A) with (to) start, but as I will reveal below, more poetic translations are possible.

1 [006/13]WR.ALDA [...] MAKADE T.ANFANG
Wralda [...] made the start
2 [014/24]ALLE THINGA THÉR MÀN ANFANGJA WIL
All things that one will start
3 [045/10]THÀT FORMA SINNE BILD WR.ALDA.S. AK FON T.ANFANG JEFTHA T.BIJIN WÉRUT TID KÉM
The first symbol of Wralda,
also of the start or beginning from which time/tide came
4 [067/07]NV KÉM.T.ANFANG FON THÀT ENDE
Now the start of the end came
5 [084/07]THÉRNÉI SKIL THET MORNERÁD WITHER ANFANGA TO GLORA
Thereafter, morningred shall again start to glimmer
6 [098/20]FONUT WR.ALDA KVMTH.T.ANFANG ÀNDET ENDE
Out of Wralda comes the start and the end
7 [103/07]BY T.ANFANG MIN ÀND BLÁT
At the start small and naked
8 [115/22]BY T.ANFANG THERE ARNE MONATH
At the start of the Arnemonth
9 [141/11]THA ÉWA THÉR WR.ALDA BI.T.ANFANG IN VS MOD LÉIDE
The laws that Wralda at the start laid in our mood
10 [141/19]ALTHAM SKIL ANFANGAFJUWER THUSAND JÉR NÉI ÁT.LAND SVNKEN IS
All that shall start
fourthousand years after Átland was sunken
11 [204/28]BI T.ANFANG WÉRON HJA REINTJA NÍDICH
At the start they were jealous (needy) of Reintja

But the Roman general in a forced march, cut through the Caesian forest and the barrier which had been begun by Tiberius, and pitched his camp on this barrier, his front and rear being defended by intrenchments, his flanks by timber barricades.

He then penetrated some forest passes but little known, and, as there were two routes, he deliberated whether he should pursue the short and ordinary route, or that which was more difficult unexplored, and consequently unguarded by the enemy.

They were helped by a night of bright starlight, reached the villages of the Marsi, and threw their pickets round the enemy, who even then were stretched on beds or at their tables, without the least fear, or any sentries before their camp, so complete was their carelessness and disorder;

I have put the brochure on my website ...the Academy of Sciences did not want to investigate the O.L.B., but individual members of the Department of Literature and History condemned the O.L.B. as mystification.

Thanks for all the work you did so far, creating a great source of information.
Yes, it shows the utter arrogance and ignorance of dutch academia.

It is not surprising why they were not happy with the OLB, as they were members of the powerful elite back then, and nowadays it's their lapdogs. (I can tell because I was one of them.)

CAUTIONOLB-believers are dangerous!"Its mythologic-religious character makes the book loved by some loners, whose belief in secret conspiracies entices them to commit (suicide) attacks." (my translation)Original dutch text:"Het mythologisch-religieuze karakter maakt het boek eveneens geliefd bij sommige einzelgängers, wier geloof in geheime samenzweringen hen tot (zelfmoord)aanslagen verleidt."Source: "Bedrog, bijgeloof en zelfmoord in Friesland" (Deceit, superstition and suicide in Friesland) in Eos Magazine (sept. 2011), by penny-a-liner Chris Reinewald.I asked the scribbler for a source and if he knew an example of such an attack. He answered that he had promised his anonymous source to not reveil any details in order to protect him/her.If such an attack has taken place, it was apparently not reported. Why would such a thing be kept a secret to the public?

=== Posted 03 December 2013 - 08:26 PM

The screaming silence from the paper research group can hardly mean anything else, than that they are not getting the results they want.As I argued before, they should not have pre-assumed that the paper has to be from the 19th century.They did this because two random paper makers said so in 1876 (one of whom had never even seen 13th century paper).They completely ignored dr. Ottema's remarks to that so-called investigation.They can't get their results straight, because they have excluded beforehand the possibility, that the paper is what the first page says it is; foreign 13th century (or older) paper.Here are some random samples of 13th century Arab paper. (Source: www.islamicmanuscripts.info)Doesn´t look much older than that of the OLB, does it?1. copied in or before 1247 CE; "Al-Risala al-Qushayriyya"2. copied 1233 CE; "al-Durar wal-Ghurar"3. copied in or before 1271 CE; "Kitab Makarim al-Akhlaq"4. copied 1275 CE; "al-Risala al-Adhawiyya"OLB-paper (copied 1256 CE):

=== Posted 03 December 2013 - 08:42 PM

Copy with a different lighting. Here the (horizontal) "laid lines" are better visible.These lines were already used by the Chinese, who made paper long before the Arabs adopted their methods.

=== Posted 03 December 2013 - 09:05 PM

On this paper (Latin-Arabic manuscript, dated before 1195 CE, from Toledo Spain), the laid lines are also clearly visible (here vertical).Arab paper making:Source for both images: http://www.islamicma...quires-2013.pdf

=== Posted 04 December 2013 - 08:38 AM

Knul, on 04 December 2013 - 03:42 AM, said:

... a list of modern mid 19th c. words and expressions in the OLB...

You believe they are modern mid 19th., but you are not sure.I could refute all of them again, as has been done over and over so far, with all earlier examples.Where did these ´modern´ expressions (in written form) come from?From spoken language, which is much older.

=== Posted 04 December 2013 - 11:20 AM

Knul, on 04 December 2013 - 03:42 AM, said:

I can give you a list of modern mid 19th c. words and expressions in the OLB like
todalesta (ten laatste),
nittomin (niettemin)
dahwila (dewijl),
afsken (ofschoon), etc.

If these were some of your best examples, then you have (once more) made yourself implausible.

I noticed something interesting about this word "KUL".
First, it is not listed in any of the oldfrisian dictionaries (Wiarda, Hettema, Richthofen), but it is in Kiliaan's "Etymologicum Teutonicae Linguae" (1599).
It meant both testicle and penis.
The word is only used in modern dutch as meaning "nonsense".

Why authorities do not investigate this further? (...)I wonder if what you say is true, which would be the consequences of a reversal in the official "consensus"? (...)I believe you have a winner, regardless of what people say...

Thank you for your encouragement and important questions, Mario.With my following videos, I will try to answer some of them.

That word is related to french "foutre", latin "futuere".A link with the frisian "fiterje" makes more sense to me, but who knows, that may be related to the latin word as well.

=== Posted 20 December 2013 - 10:42 AM

gestur, on 22 November 2013 - 04:34 PM, said:

ANFANGA = αναφαινω...According to my dictionary, this can mean:ignite, let shine, bring to light, reveal, inform(laten lichten, laten schitteren, aan 't licht brengen, openbaren, meedelen)..."templum quod Tanfanae vocabant"..., it may very well have been a temple where T.ANFANG was celebrated.

And did you read about how the Norwegians/Scandinavians/Vikings called their 'priests' before their conversion to Christianity?Gode.

So your conclusion is that this was the only word for priest in all of northern Europe? BS.They had different terms for the same concepts, just like we do.Example:God in Icelandic can be "Guð" or "Drottinn" (the latter usually being translated as "Lord").This last word is also known from old-german:"Te hwi thu mik so farlieti, lievo drohtin" (anonymous ca. 830 CE)= why do you abandon me, dear God/ Lord?The <h> before a <t> will have sounded like our <ch>, compare "alomahtig""; allmighty (dutch: almachtig)."Liobo druhtin min" (Otfried von Weißenburg, ca. 865 CE) = my dear God/ LordIn OLB:JEF THIN DROCHTEN THÀN SÁ BJUSTRE GOD IS (p.35)If your god is quite so goodTACH ALSA NIL.T VS DROCHTEN NAVT (p.36)But our god does not want that thatTHENE ALLERVRSTE DROCHTEN (p.37)the supreme god... etcetera.The word was sometimes translated by Ottema as "gedrocht" (monster), which was probably (in that context) how the Fryas thought about the gods of their enemies. But Minerva also referred to Wralda als DROCHTEN. So the meaning of words sometimes change.OLB is much more complex than you imagine. You'll have to do better than superficially scan it and then create pet theories that you stubbornly stick to.In short, there are many more indications (and they are much stronger) that OLB's language is authentic, than that it's a modern fabrication. Even the specialists back then couldn't imagine anyone who would have been capable of creating anything of its kind.Your examples are desperate and inutile attempts to prove that OLB is fake.

=== Posted 30 December 2013 - 08:05 AM

Dr. No and Puzzler gave perfect replies, I can only add little to it:

Abramelin, on 29 December 2013 - 07:38 PM, said:

To me. and many others, it is bloody obvious that "prester/priester" is derived from "presbyter". It follows the same etymological 'rule' as the derivation of "ho(s)tel" from Latin "hospitale"

It is indeed possible that prester is derived from presbyter, just like master (also used in OLB) from magister. But we don´t know when that happened. We have very little written records, and mainly from cultures that destroyed/ replaced the northern European indiginous ones. Oral language is much older and the varieties may have co-existed for a very long time, the shorter versions (prester, master) possibly being considered to be more vulgar. Who knows? Not we.

Quote

You said the word "prester/priester" could have been derived from other, LATIN words (...), but then it still was not an Old Frisian/Old Germanic word. No Sir, I do not ignore anything.

I am still waiting for your proof, that the OLB is authentic without the words maybe, possibly, could be, etc., but with something we can verify.

One step at a time.My main goal at the moment is to prove that the official OLB-doctrine is flawed in many ways, and that it is not at all evident that the OLB is fake.In my recent videos, I demonstrate that the relevant authorities* misinform the Dutch/ Frisian public about the OLB.* authorities:1: Tresoar, the archive in Leeuwarden (Friesland) that guards the manuscript2: prof. Goffe Jensma (Groningen University) and Frisian educational TV (11en30)For now I am satisfied when people accept that OLB might be authentic and that further research is needed.From there we can move on.

suche / zoek / soek / sök / søk / søg / seek/ sykje

F R Y A ~ S K É D N I S E

the early speech of our fore-fathers

"The pure Friesic and easy wording of the Oera Linda Book must be most welcome to students of English and Saxon, as a widening of the now too narrow ground of the early speech of our fore-fathers." Wm. Barnes. Macmillan's Magazine,April 1877, p. 465.

Video Studies

Cornelis Over de Linden (1811-1874) Den Helder

Eelco Verwijs (1830-1880)

first scholar who studied the manuscript and confirmed its authenticity (1867) - later he withdrew this conclusion, probably to save his career

Jan Ottema (1804-1879) Leeuwarden

first translator and publisher of the 'Oera Linda Bok' (1872 & 1876)

the oldest production of European literature

"We may thus accept that we possess in this manuscript, of which the first part was composed in the sixth century before our era, the oldest production, after Homer and Hesiod, of European literature. And here we find in our fatherland a very ancient people in possession of development, civilisation, industry, navigation, commerce, literature, and pure elevated ideas of religion, whose existence we had never even conjectured."Dr. J.G. Ottema, 1871 (translation Sandbach)