Quote: I think the most important stat I can state is simply the magnitude of potential is so much higher in Pro Football, it would be extraordinary that a small population of athletes found in MMA

And where did you get this source?

Quote: the proof of the pudding is in the eating, there are currently several washed up athletes trying to compete in the MMA

Like Bob Sapp who get his handed down to him on almost every occassion. You call that 'elite'? I thought you said 'elite athletes' are able to wipe the floor of the scrubby MM-Artists. Now answer this; what's an 'elite' athlete?

Quote: Let's see how they do and we can re visit this topic then

The one that is in MMA isn't doing great. Now let's continue the discussion.

Quote: the proof of the pudding is in the eating

I certainly agree, but then it's just another excuse for you not having to put down your sources, facts, data, stat and proof of your claims.

Quote: We are all just too stubborn to change our minds, anyway.

Nope, you're the one that's being stubborn and even though you know we're right, you just can't accept the truth.

I do admit that Bob Sapp got skills but that's only due to him being in the industry for a long time but he's never been 'elite' in the MMA industry despite his physical advantage of strength he lacks in technique and functional strength geared towards combat. His body is made to run in the fields, not bull-rushing someone just to get KO'ed by a jab (Sapp-Crocop fight).

And you still haven't answered "What defines an 'elite' athlete".

-Taison out

_________________________
I got two fists.. Don't make me use my head as well!

What is interesting is people can look at the same thing and see 2 different things.

Lets look at Bob Sapp, and when you do, it does not look so good for MMA.

First Bob Sapp was a Pro football player, who was under contract for 4 seasons, but only played in one game, he was a college standout who clearly could not make it in the Pros even with his "Beast Like" size and strength. Making him a college level athlete, the same level I credit the top MMA guys.

Then he tries his hand at wrestling, gets a contract but is cut because he cannot handle the cardio vascular demands.

So then he tries K-1 where he knocks out a 4 time champion, twice and for a few years has some success, enough success that everyone on this board knows who he is.

He manages to stick around, had a winning record until finally getting his orbital bone broken by one of the best fighters the sport has ever produced.

He is virtually untrained as a fighter. ( I hope this is obvious to everyone).

So Pro Football- BustPro wrestling-BustPro MMA, International Recognition, Fame, all with no or almost no training as a fighter.

And no I don't think he is an elite Athlete.

Now I will also say I think MMA has improved in the few short years since Bob Sapp made his mark, and a guy like him wouldn't last as long as he did today. But I don't the sport has evolved to the point where it's on Par with Pro Football, not even close.

Tasion- Elite athletes in my mind are guys with amazing physical skills, combined with reflexes, instinct and intelligence to rise over and above anything the average person could ever "train' for. In a word they are gifted.

MMA fighters are on the level of good college athletes, this is my assessment as an athlete and a Martial Artist, and I think anyone who seriously looks at them and evaluates them as athletes would agree.

I would disagree with anyone who says Bob Sapp is an untrained fighter. While he may not have the best technique, he has had training and has trained prior to every fight just like any pro athlete/competitor. He may not be a martial artist, but he is a pro fighter and while not the most technical he has come a long way on his attributes. Many other fighters claim they don't respect him as a fighter because he just uses his size and power to bull does his way into the sport...So what? He uses his attributes which is just another factor in whether he can do well as a competitor.

I have seen videos of his training for both boxing and kick boxing.

What Kimo is referring to as elite is DNA, he chooses nature over nurture. A point that neither proves him right or wrong as this can be argued to infinity.

However, I feel most people will agree that it is not just DNA that makes an elite athlete, but the combination of both nature and nurture, good genetics and quality training along with the spirit to persevere through.

I would compare someone like Tim Silvia to Bob Sapp, someone who has gotten by on training but mostly their attributes. Even though we all know Silvia trains with Militech camp. To me it was why the better athlete with great attributes such as Randy Couture was able to win rather easily.