Quoting 0897t5 (reply 0):If United treats customers who fly in excess of 50,000 miles per year and who achieve Premier Executive status this way, perhaps they shouldn't be in business. Thoughts?

I couldn't agree more, 0897t5! This is anti-client and total mis-management of a service industry provider. I am currently giving QF a bit of a cold shoulder even though I have Platimum status with them, due to their unconscionable devaluation of my existing points. Apparatly, we clients have had it too good for too long and QF have found the need to "simplify" the system for us. That's fine. Try this for a simple message: I'll take my business elsewhere. Whilst I prefer OW to SkyTeam, at least AF still looks after their FF's well (upgrades, earning points, etc). They might be seeing some more of my business, particularly as they the hub airline in Paris.

I just achieved WorldPerks Silver Elite status with Northwest. They got my card to me only 4 days before I was set to become Silver Elite (3/1/05). I also noticed it came bulk mail, however. I would be curious to know how many elite cardholders each airline has and how much they really do save by using bulk mail.

I'm sure you can access the lounge and check-in if they pull up your reservation, which would clearly show Premier Exec..granted 8 weeks is too long. On the other hand, you'll get within 8 weeks, mine came in 9 days.

What airlines are good about taking on new customers and allowing them to immediately assume the same status they did have on their previous network? I am interested in leaving United frequent flyer for another network. Someone who flies North America and Europe extensively, also with good coverage of Asia.
Many thanks

it's been 8 weeks so far and no card. Acccesing the lounge on a partner airline in Europe means the partner airline going through a laborious process of phoning United to verify status. With a now expired card United service personnel indicated yes I may have difficulty checking in at the Business Class desk, and will have to hope manual key in of my frequent flyer number will work. If not I'll have to fax in boarding passess and receipts to their Arizona processing center.

None of this would have happened if United had chosen to send Elite members their new cards via a method other than bulk mail.

Good points, but this isn't why UA is bankrupt. UA is bankrupt because they can't make money. As long as fares are low and costs are high, they won't make money. It has nothing to do with you not being able to access a lounge.

Quoting 0897t5 (reply 4):What airlines are good about taking on new customers and allowing them to immediately assume the same status they did have on their previous network? I am interested in leaving United frequent flyer for another network. Someone who flies North America and Europe extensively, also with good coverage of Asia.
Many thanks

check out the status match master thread on flyertalk.com. there, you'll find a listing of almost all programs and how they'll comp your status.

Sorry it is taking so long to get your card, which is totally CRAZY, however that is not the reason why UA is in Bankruptcy...they are there because their management didn't/doesn't know how to run a company. They spend money like crazy and make some pretty bad and dumb decisions on the backs of the employees of UA.

basic economics would indicate that yes, an airline would lose money if operating costs are higher than profits. One way to lose profits is to lose the highest paying customers. People who achieve Executive Premier Status on United are bringing significant profit into the airline by using United again and again and again. In any business, this is the ideal customer to have. In United's case, the cost of keeping a customer like me is the cost of a first class stamp. United says they use bulk mail for sending cards to their frequent flyers. There is definitely a connection between turning away your highest paying customers and bankruptcy, as the highest paying customers are keeping the airline closer to profitability.

Sending the cards bulk saves money, so it would be the opposite of why they are bankrupt.

However, on Delta at least, you never really need your card, as your status, crown room membership, etc... prints right on your ticket and is part of your reservation. I have found that they update almost immediately as well. Perhaps UA works the same way?

thanks for the flyertalk link Ben. I'll take a look. Postal issues could be a factor - but shouldn't be. I've enquired three times in the past 8 weeks about the card. If one of my clients who spent thousands a year on me asked me for a small credit card sized plastic card, I'd get it to him or her quickly.

using bulk mail contributes to bankruptcy. If they save £1 by using bulk versus first class mail, and in the process lose a frequent flyer who spends £10,000 per year, then if they repeat that mistake with others (and UAL no doubt does), then the mathematics can hypotehtically look like this:

400 UAL frequent flyers (spending on avg £10,000 per annum) leave UAL frequent flyer program due to card not arriving after 8 weeks:

UAL saves £400 on postage

UAL loses £4,000,000 in revenue as a result of choosing to "save" the postage

You're assuming that frequent fliers are the highest paying customers - which isn't always the case.

In fact, many times it costs more for an airline to service a frequent flier, because they expect:

first class upgrades

separate, dedicated check-in positions

separate, dedicated reservations staff

special frequent flier cards

And other sorts of constant coddling that ultimately costs the airline a great deal of money. Now sure, when it's someone who buys expensive fares that's wonderful, and even deserved - but when you have someone racking up elite status based on numerous $198.00 transcon loss-leader fares, that person becomes a high cost, low yield customer - arguably the airline's WORST customer.

"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan

Comments made here are my own and are not intended to represent the official position of Alaska Air Group

Catatonic: I was simply positing a tangible reason why a legacy carrier cannot seem to get itself together - and that this micro-act is partly responsible for the macro problem. It's a good example of why UAL is in difficulty. I have called them repeatedly, for your information.

You are wrong here. You CAN use a Red Carpet Club with just your boarding pass if you are flying with United. You are correct though that you may not use a *A lounge. You can also check in at the UA business class counter. I have done it many times.

But concerning customer service, it is annoying that UA sends their welcome kits via bulk mail. But last I heard, there are about 60k - 75k Premier Executives...and well over 100k-120k Premiers. Cost savings is a precious thing to them right now, and this is a relatively good way to do so since, like others have noted, your status shows up in any records you book using your MP number. (Yes, it can be a challenge to get lounge access in foreign territory.)

Furthermore, while status shows how much you fly -- it is not an indicator of how much revenue you generate for the airline. As a 1K, I can honestly say while I'm not the worst, I'm definitely not UA's greatest revenue-generating asset even though I sit on their planes for more than 100k miles each year. My personal travel is always a coach ticket, and for biz travel I try to be as conservative as possible for my clients--although some of them are more generous than others.

UA would much rather have the once-a-year flyer who drops $5k for a biz ticket ORD-LHR than to cart a Premier Executive around for 50k miles on deeply-discounted tickets, probably upgraded into premium cabins, that don't even total $5k.

And I don't think UA has the capability to differentiate between its profitable and unprofitable elite passengers so as to send your welcome kit via first class or bulk.

When I got to Gold on AA,they sent me my card right away, and it was shown on the AA website within 3-4 days of me achieving it......also, its always printed on my boarding card/slip and reservations...I think AA has been the best for me so far.

Quoting FriendlySkies (reply 6):Good points, but this isn't why UA is bankrupt. UA is bankrupt because they can't make money. It has nothing to do with you not being able to access a lounge.

I think it has everything to do with our friend not being able to access the lounge. If they treat their best customers like crap, those customers will fly with a better airline and UA will be stuck with the occasional low-yield flyer who doesn't take to the skies enough to have any loyalty to any airline. If they can't mail out a replacement FF card in under eight weeks, why not just close the doors and call it a day now?

this conversation has been very illuminating. I believe Travelocity here in the UK allows passengers to purchase access to the lounge on a per trip basis. I had previously been purchasing both US and European domestic air travel via the UA website. Perhaps the best approach is to purchase the cheapest ticket and purchase access to a lounge. Travelocity also ought to offer access to buisness check-in. I've often gone far out of my way to remain with Star Alliance carriers thinking they'd appreciate loyalty.

Ahhhhhh the month of Feb. when all status is no longer.... I havn't flown much this year and like yourself am losing my status. I was Premier Executive for Feb 03'- Feb 04'. Just at the end of Feb I called customer service and asked what status I would be and was told that I was only Premier. Took no longer than 7-10 business days for me to get my card. Now I'm back to the usual blue card which I expect to get any day.

My girlfriend is taking a trip with us this summer and b/c she is a new flyer with United and b/c her trip would entail a lot of miles she too was signed up for the FF program. From the day she paid for her ticket to the day she got her card had to be no less than 3 weeks.

Just use your old card. I have done it before and all they do is pick up your number. I understand that you have to jump to the front of the line and stand infront of the counter under some cheap red rug and a fake flower but chill. They will treat you the same and regardless of your status United has always, in my opinion/experiences, treated all of its customers be it someone flying in the back of the bus on coupons or the "Premier Executive" fellow sitting in the studio apartment seats up front with the same respect and attitude they would expect from someone else. So before you launch an attack on United b/c YOU didn't get a simple peace of plastic that means nothing really, check the facts and calm down. If you are so outraged by the fact that they will not bow the second you enter the airport then leave, probably saved a few people from having you jump down their neck.

I am personally laughing my ass off at your immature attitude towards a respectable airline. Like others have said, if you have such an issue with it then move on or write a letter.

In United's case, the cost of keeping a customer like me is the cost of a first class stamp.

I don't think they'll have an issue filling the seat and as we all know you are soooo important but I don't think your leaving the airline will really send **shocks** throughout the airline. But I agree, if someone isn't happy the whole system needs to change.

One of the reasons you might have an issue with checking in would be your attitude towards the airline. Go the counter, and in a calm collected voice explain your situation. If you truly are your status I highly doubt it'll be hard for the airline to pull up your records. I flew SFO-NRT-HKG-NRT-SFO and before I got home I had miles awarded to my account so I would say your records are up to date. In terms of the lounge....... Again, go up explain your situation and enter. I think, though your card says your are invalid, you still will get it. I'm no wiz but I think the only difference between a Blue normal mileage card and a gold Premier Executive is the color and print on the front of it. I think all it does it pull up your record and tells the computer the status of the card holder so if your account is active then it should be no problem.

I'm not meaning to be an ass or come down hard but you shouldn't expect and airline to meet your EVERY need despite the fact you spend sooo much money with them. And no, the card issue is not the cause for their bankrupt status. Maybe they've been bankrupt so long b/c their "Afloat Status" card is in the bulk mail....

In my experience, some "elite" members really let it get to their head. They think we should give them the world becuase of status. After they walk away, I pull up their etkt, and sure enough....they're on a very cheap ticket, or on a bulk fare.

All I have to say is the more rude you are, or demaning with an attitude, the less likely we will be eager to do something for you.

jetBlue

We know for you it's not just a seat on a flight to a place. It's a seat on a flight to your life.

I fully agree with you that there is no excuse whatsoever for rudeness, status or not.

But: as long as airlines give mileage for cheap tickets and as long as these people accrue enough miles to get status by using these cheap tickets, you can't blame them. IF the airline is unhappy about status passengers with discount tickets, all they have to do is change the rules of the FFP. 1 mile per dollar or something similar.

And moreover: a status pax is a loyal customer. I think if there is one thing that airlines like UAL need right now are loyal customers. So one shouldn't spit on them...

As for my own experience, when I asked swiss - another highly successful carrier, not - to send me a replacement for my top tier status card which I had lost, they wanted me to pay for that. Well right, so I don't have a card with swiss, but I have one with other airlines - which I shall use then.

Matt: The problems with check in revolves around the following: I fly Star Alliance in Europe. UAL status does not come up when you check in with Lufthansa, British Midland, et al. When travelling on business, the time is crucial, the the check in ability means a heck of a lot. Lounge allows for convenient computer access.

The card does mean something. Just two weeks ago I waited an extra 20 minutes to gain access to a Star Alliance lounge while they tried to reach United to verify status, missing a portion of a business meeting.

It's a simple thing Matt, but it does make a difference when travelling on business abroad and with a Star Alliance partner airline. Attitude? I usually sit in the regular boarding area. I don't mind lounge or not. But when I need the lounge for business and I need to check in fast it really helps.

Quoting 0897t5 (reply 0):If United treats customers who fly in excess of 50,000 miles per year and who achieve Premier Executive status this way, perhaps they shouldn't be in business. Thoughts?

Depends. With as stupid as legacy airline pricing and FF programs have become, a 50K miles/year traveler is not necessarily a valuable customer; in fact it can in some (actually many) cases be exactly the opposite. Since I don't know what type of fares you pay for your travel on UA and other Star airlines, I have no opinion on this subject. Simply saying that you may be anything from a very valuable customer on one hand, to a non-profit, high maintenance customer who has been trained (by UA) to think like a freeloader on the other hand. If it is the latter, I don't blame you but rather blame United for their folly in allowing such high-cost, low-yield nonsense to occur.

Quoting 0897t5 (reply 17):Catatonic: I was simply positing a tangible reason why a legacy carrier cannot seem to get itself together - and that this micro-act is partly responsible for the macro problem. It's a good example of why UAL is in difficulty. I have called them repeatedly, for your information.

I am with you on this, but believe me you will get further writing to them than complaining on here as i have found when I complained about being shat upon by BA and BMI you just get flamed by hardline fans of the airline that are quick to jump to their defence!

I think the airlines should do what's most cost effective, while maintaining impeccable safety and labour relations. If a frequent flyer programme isn't cost effective, it ought to be scrapped. I've learned a lot from this. Many thanks

PS Also perhaps the airlines could break down customer service into components ie fee for quick check in, fee for lounge, etc, separately charged for each flight. I would pay that for the time it gives me to work.

They do. You can pay for the Red Carpet Club at I think 500 a year... not too sure but there is a limit as to how much you can use it based on how much you pay. And it is cost effective. If you think you "deserve" all the things you get, buddy, there are so many other flyers like yourself that contribute the airline. It costs them soooooo little to give you what they do so don't be going around thinking that if you depart the airline will feel your absence.

I don't feel as though anyone is jumping to United's defence. I might be a fan of United but I have a laundry list of things they can improve upon. I just feel that 0897t5 is out of hand if he feels he needs to be treated with the utmost respect and that if he feels the airline isn't serving him the way he likes it then they must change.

Quoting Jetblue (reply 25):In my experience, some "elite" members really let it get to their head. They think we should give them the world becuase of status. After they walk away, I pull up their etkt, and sure enough....they're on a very cheap ticket, or on a bulk fare.

All I have to say is the more rude you are, or demaning with an attitude, the less likely we will be eager to do something for you.

Well put and talk about a great start on a.net. This is the sole reason I feel that this post is going no where and that if In my experience, some "elite" members really let it get to their head. They think we should give them the world becuase of status. After they walk away, I pull up their etkt, and sure enough....they're on a very cheap ticket, or on a bulk fare. If 0897t5 wishes to act the way he is then so be it, best of luck, you won't go far with that attitude.

Quoting UA777222 (reply 36): you think you "deserve" all the things you get, buddy, there are so many other flyers like yourself that contribute the airline. It costs them soooooo little to give you what they do so don't be going around thinking that if you depart the airline will feel your absence.

Quoting UA777222 (reply 36): just feel that 0897t5 is out of hand if he feels he needs to be treated with the utmost respect and that if he feels the airline isn't serving him the way he likes it then they must change.

How is that out of hand? Ideally, all customers should be treated with the utmost respect. Realistically, at least elite customers should be treated with the utmost respect.

The production of these cards should not take longer than 3 weeks, the most common way to produce the basic card is by offset-printing. After that, the personalisation and handeling of the cards into a mailing should be around 1 week. The postal shipping of a mailing should not take longer than a week in the USA and two weeks world wide. Normally, it would take from scratch to your mailbox 5-6 weeks, 2-3 weeks if the cards are on stock. The costs of one card will be around € 1,20 ($ 1,50) incl. materiales, handling and standard postal rates world-wide for as little as 2000 pieces.
I think the problem with UAL might be different; Nobody wants to give them credit anymore and the proforma invoice is simply not paid on time.

Personally, I'd rather see UA sell one of these cheap tickets to sixty different people - each of whom won't expect free upgrades, won't demand free lounge access, won't require agents bow with deference as they approach, etc.

Why? Because those customers cost a whole lot less to deliver service to.

The high YIELD customers are the ones who are deserving of extra perks - not the $100.00 each way customer who just happens to fly a lot in the process.

"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan

Comments made here are my own and are not intended to represent the official position of Alaska Air Group

Quoting 0897t5 (reply 34):I think the airlines should do what's most cost effective, while maintaining impeccable safety and labour relations. If a frequent flyer programme isn't cost effective, it ought to be scrapped.

Which is why Southwest is not bankrupt and, in fact has a market capitalization which probably still exceeds that of the combined market cap of the U.S. legacies. BTW, did I mention that Southwest has neither an elite FF program nor a convoluted FF award program with multiple partners?

Quoting 0897t5 (reply 0):1. Inability to access the lounge
2. Inability to check in at Business Check in
3. Difficulty receiving mileage credit when keyed in manually versus by swiping a valid card

1. Please help me understand this. I am a 1K, and have never had any of these problems. Firstly, as I stated above, whn flying UA your ticket is gold and says premier executive on it. This will allow you to access a UA lounge, but not the partner ones, unfortunately.

2. Yes, you will still be able to use Business Class check-in. Once you get there they will see in the computer your status. Also, I recommend you print out your Mileage Plus account summery to show it to them.

3. What? How is it difficult?

Let me tell you. United does not make a lot of money off of me. My mileage runs fly me about 100,000 miles a year for under $2,000. With all of my upgrades, they are losing big from me. Your status means nothing. Someone who just once buys a C class ticket to Europe is way ahead of some elites, such as myself. Please don't complain. United is a great airline, and 99.99% of the time I have haad nothing but perfection with them.

Now I get the train to work everyday, two there and two back, average 80
journeys every month. Plus maybe an extra 10 or so for just getting around
london to visit friends.. I think this would make me a FF (train wise)..

Wonder what would happen if I asked for a free upgrade into the 1st class carrage.

I'm referring here to domestic European travel on Star Alliance airlines. Without the UAL gold card itself, all the above are problems. As of tomorrow I have an expired card as I haven't yet received my new card so I'm not sure what will happen with an expired card. I understand all would be fine if flying United, but this involves Star Alliance Partner travel.
All the best.

I forgot to mention the frequent flyer card swiping. UAL uses fantastic credit card style frequent flyer cards. All Star Alliance partners I have flown simply swipe the cards to register your having flown. This makes collecting miles much easier. Without a card, premier mileage numbers will have to be entered manually, which means the process is much more prone to human error. I think the key here is that a UAL customer flying mainly overseas really needs the card. Without it, partner carriers must call UAL to verify status at each point where status is required. check-in, lounge

As for complaining, I respectfully disagree. I like UAL very much and have been with them a long time, however a specific problem exists for someone flying abroad who hasn't received his card from UAL, as I have outlined above.