He isn't signing for the same reason most vets don't sign right away.... the ability to work out on their own with their own people instead of being relegated to the team facilities. You have to remember that the new CBA is very restrictive to how much working out players can do. Maybe Cliff feels he needs to work harder and he wouldn't get the same level at the facilities as he could working with a private company. As long as he doesn't sign, he doesn't have to report and he can't be fined since he's not under contract. If he signs and holds out, he's fined per day.

As for a trade, it won't happen unless its something Cliff has already agreed too. I think he'll sign one of the offer sheets to a long-term deal eventually, but there's no rush to get anything done right now.

BS! If he wanted to "voluntarily" workout harder, he could. The only reason he's not doing it is so he can dog it and not be subject to rigorous workouts that may get him hurt. He isn't doing this so he can "workout harder." That's nonsense.

April 23rd, 2012, 5:39 pm

njroar

Team MVP

Joined: September 25th, 2007, 3:20 amPosts: 3262

Re: My last thought before the draft

wjb21ndtown wrote:

njroar wrote:

He isn't signing for the same reason most vets don't sign right away.... the ability to work out on their own with their own people instead of being relegated to the team facilities. You have to remember that the new CBA is very restrictive to how much working out players can do. Maybe Cliff feels he needs to work harder and he wouldn't get the same level at the facilities as he could working with a private company. As long as he doesn't sign, he doesn't have to report and he can't be fined since he's not under contract. If he signs and holds out, he's fined per day.

As for a trade, it won't happen unless its something Cliff has already agreed too. I think he'll sign one of the offer sheets to a long-term deal eventually, but there's no rush to get anything done right now.

BS! If he wanted to "voluntarily" workout harder, he could. The only reason he's not doing it is so he can dog it and not be subject to rigorous workouts that may get him hurt. He isn't doing this so he can "workout harder." That's nonsense.

So its perfectly normal practice that Miami players have done for years, but nonsense that a Purdue player would do it? So anyone that doesn't do what you think they should do is a dog and being lazy. That's nonsense.

He isn't signing for the same reason most vets don't sign right away.... the ability to work out on their own with their own people instead of being relegated to the team facilities. You have to remember that the new CBA is very restrictive to how much working out players can do. Maybe Cliff feels he needs to work harder and he wouldn't get the same level at the facilities as he could working with a private company. As long as he doesn't sign, he doesn't have to report and he can't be fined since he's not under contract. If he signs and holds out, he's fined per day.

As for a trade, it won't happen unless its something Cliff has already agreed too. I think he'll sign one of the offer sheets to a long-term deal eventually, but there's no rush to get anything done right now.

BS! If he wanted to "voluntarily" workout harder, he could. The only reason he's not doing it is so he can dog it and not be subject to rigorous workouts that may get him hurt. He isn't doing this so he can "workout harder." That's nonsense.

YEAH Because by dogging it, it will help prove that he is deserving the contract that he wants

_________________Proud member of the Contract Extension for Schwartz Fan Club.

April 23rd, 2012, 7:46 pm

jrd66

Mr. Irrelevant

Joined: February 10th, 2005, 6:52 pmPosts: 958Location: Linden, MI

Re: My last thought before the draft

mwill2 wrote:

njroar wrote:

He isn't signing for the same reason most vets don't sign right away.... the ability to work out on their own with their own people instead of being relegated to the team facilities. You have to remember that the new CBA is very restrictive to how much working out players can do. Maybe Cliff feels he needs to work harder and he wouldn't get the same level at the facilities as he could working with a private company. As long as he doesn't sign, he doesn't have to report and he can't be fined since he's not under contract. If he signs and holds out, he's fined per day.

As for a trade, it won't happen unless its something Cliff has already agreed too. I think he'll sign one of the offer sheets to a long-term deal eventually, but there's no rush to get anything done right now.

Exactly. Under the franchise tag, I'm pretty sure the player is only paid for regular season games. Avril can wait until after the preseason to sign without losing any money, right? At this point, waiting is the best way for him to gain leverage. He can make the team go through camp without him and see if that will motivate the front office to offer a better deal.

I'm with you on this one. Avril has only one lever to yank on in this scenario and it is to not sign and withold his 'services'. It's part of the negotiating process, nothing else. It doesn't make him a turd, its just how things work. Porcher did the same thing when they tagged him. He held out until training camp and signed a long term deal, for something in between his demands and the teams offer. I would be very surprised if he gets traded this week, to tell the truth.

The one thing I haven't seen mentioned here with regard to a possible Avril trade is that he can't be traded until he signs an offer. Currently he's not under contract, so the Lions can't trade him. He'd either have to sign his franchise tag, or agree to a different contract, sign that one, and then be traded. A player who hasn't signed can't be traded.

That's my understanding anyway. I could be wrong though....

_________________"Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passions, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence." - John Adams

“The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it.” - Neil deGrasse Tyson

April 24th, 2012, 9:58 am

m2karateman

RIP Killer

Joined: October 20th, 2004, 4:16 pmPosts: 10408Location: Where ever I'm at now

Re: My last thought before the draft

Touchdown Jesus wrote:

The one thing I haven't seen mentioned here with regard to a possible Avril trade is that he can't be traded until he signs an offer. Currently he's not under contract, so the Lions can't trade him. He'd either have to sign his franchise tag, or agree to a different contract, sign that one, and then be traded. A player who hasn't signed can't be traded.

That's my understanding anyway. I could be wrong though....

I believe you are correct. He would have to sign his franchise offer, then the Lions could trade him for whatever they agree to. The team they trade him to would already have a deal ready for him to sign. If the Lions got a second and fourth round pick for him, I'd think it was worth it. I just don't see them getting a first rounder for Avril now....not with what seems to be a high contract demand.

_________________I will not put on blinders when it comes to our QBs performances.

April 24th, 2012, 10:49 am

Pablo

RIP Killer

Joined: August 6th, 2004, 9:21 amPosts: 10024Location: Dallas

Re: My last thought before the draft

You are both correct, you cannot trade a player who hasn't signed a contract.

I was glad to see that Asante Samuel was traded to Atlanta today. I didn't want a thing to do with him. I think he's a good player, but he's on the wrong side of 30 and I don't think that he's the player he used to be. He's also a gambler, which can be good, but if he's going to be relied on as your #1 CB, you don't want him gambling too often, because he'll get burned.

_________________Forward down the field!

April 25th, 2012, 4:22 pm

Killwill25

Rookie Player of the Year

Joined: March 5th, 2009, 8:42 pmPosts: 2422Location: Brooklyn, NY

Re: My last thought before the draft

i cant wait till saturday which should be the last time we see todd mcshay for a while.

_________________Just one Super Bowl win before I go!

April 25th, 2012, 7:54 pm

kdsberman

League MVP

Joined: February 20th, 2007, 10:51 pmPosts: 3527Location: Saginaw, MI

Re: My last thought before the draft

Killwill25 wrote:

i cant wait till saturday which should be the last time we see todd mcshay for a while.

Amen to that.

April 25th, 2012, 8:12 pm

m2karateman

RIP Killer

Joined: October 20th, 2004, 4:16 pmPosts: 10408Location: Where ever I'm at now

Re: My last thought before the draft

Wayne Fontes wrote:

I was glad to see that Asante Samuel was traded to Atlanta today. I didn't want a thing to do with him. I think he's a good player, but he's on the wrong side of 30 and I don't think that he's the player he used to be. He's also a gambler, which can be good, but if he's going to be relied on as your #1 CB, you don't want him gambling too often, because he'll get burned.

Well, first off nobody said he would be the number one corner here. I think Houston is a more consistent player. Secondly, if the Lions had traded for Samuel, I think they still would have taken a corner somewhere in the draft, even round one if Kirkpatrick somehow fell to them. If you can add talent to your roster, you do it. Not at any price, of course. I think the deal he was given was probably a bit too much, but I wouldn't have been too upset by it if the Lions gave him the same deal. He's still a good corner, and he's better than Aaron Berry, Alfonso Smith or anyone else we have right now behind Houston. And for a late round pick? I'd accept that all day long.

_________________I will not put on blinders when it comes to our QBs performances.