Im a believer, but I dont think any Messiah is coming on 2012. Hes /Its already here, just have to get on to the right frequency.

Spot on, IMO. We each of us has to 'get on the right frequency' as you put it. It would appear that exponentially increasing numbers of people are now having this experience.

As for 2012, I'm also deeply intrigued with the Mayans, who contrary to Tony's claim above, seem to have suffered the very same smear tactics as were meted out to the Druids and suchlike. History places great accent on the decline and fall of societies yet not so much upon their largely undocumented achievements.

I have a question. If, as it seems, even the NWO places some faith in astrologers and, as it seems, they appear to be accelerating their domination program and, as we have discovered, zillion$ in resources are going missing and Rockefeller & Gates are building a 'Doomsday' seedbank in the Arctic and (ad nauseum)... does it not seem to you that they at least are preparing (and monumentally coercing, regardless of law) for radically different planetary conditions in the very near future? What if they see the survival of mankind at stake - no holds barred?

OTOH, many have intimations that 'unknown energy fields' are beginning to play some part in our evolution.

Perhaps all the hype is coming from the fear-vendors? Perhaps the Mayans had it right. Why not? They appear to have had a high civilisation on this planet long before we Caucasians dragged ourselves out of the endless mire of ego-wars.

Take heed of Pacal Votan._________________"We will lead every revolution against us!" - attrib: Theodor Herzl

Billionaire and former colleague donate $30m for telescope that can provide early warning of asteroid crash

In the daytime the view from Cerro Pachon, a rocky, desolate peak high above Chile, offers a breathtaking vista of the Andes. Mountains of rock topped with snow and glaciers seem to touch the heavens.

Come nightfall, the Andes disappear into gloom and then the real show begins. As if someone had flicked a switch, the gleam of millions of planets and stars studs the inky blackness overhead.

The sky seems too immense to absorb, even for giant telescopes. They focus on one tiny portion at a time, pinpricks in the cosmos, because traditionally astronomers like to dwell on detail.

Not any more. Cerro Pachon is to host the Large Synoptic Survey Telescope, a near $400m (£203m) project that will survey the entire sky several times a week - something never done before.

Every 15 seconds it will take an image seven times the diameter of the moon, adding up, every three days, to a full panorama of the heavens. Boasting 3,200 megapixels, it will be the world's biggest digital camera.

"Most telescopes look at a tiny part of the sky, to look deep and in detail. We want to look broadly, to cover everything," Victor Krabbendam, the deputy project manager, said yesterday.

This week the telescope took a step closer to reality after donations from two geeky philanthropic billionaires who are entranced by the technology and its possibilities.

Bill Gates gave $10m from his private fortune and a former Microsoft colleague, Charles Simonyi, gave $20m through his Fund for Arts and Sciences.

Gates, one of the world's richest men, said the telescope would turn astronomy into a software issue by writing code and database queries to mine the night sky and recover its secrets.

"LSST is truly an internet telescope which will put terabytes of data each night into the hands of anyone that wants to explore it. [It is] a shared resource for all humanity - the ultimate network peripheral device to explore the universe," he said.

The donations will keep on track the construction of three large mirrors and three refractive lenses which are the most important and expensive part of the machine.

The first stages of production for the two largest mirrors are under way at the Mirror Laboratory at the University of Arizona.

Launched in 2000, the project is a partnership based in Tucson, Arizona, and split among 23 universities, laboratories and private entities. Once the mirrors are ready they will be hauled up the 2,690-metre peak and installed in a dome due for construction in 2011. "First light", as astronomers call their scoping, should begin four years later. [Late as ever! - Th911]

The camera is expected to take more than 200,000 pictures. Processing that information is expected to be the most technically difficult part of the project.

The camera's 15 second exposure should be long enough to record images of even very faint objects such as asteroids and so-called near-Earth objects. By monitoring them night after night, it should be possible to infer their orbit around the sun and hence how likely they are to slam into Earth...

does any one have an opinion or any info on the nibiru theory?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZlcPWa6SomE
This is new to me so ive been meaning to look into it once I get some time._________________Today's mighty oak is just yesterday's nut, that held its ground.
David Icke

its the same as most things, some think theres something in it others don't, some from both opinons think others of the opposite opinon are disinfo artists.

it really is only something you should research and form your own opinon on via your own research.

those who say its true say it will enter between mars and jupiter, and will have effects on the earth, but if it is true and is being cover-up, then it don't look good, i'd imagine the asteroid belt would be disturb also, the magnetic feild could ping some our way, so i hope it aint true.

How can we ever know what is really taking place? Niburu, Nephilim, Sirians et al. You might want to trawl through Laura Knight's Wave series, for one interpretation of all this.

Yet who is to say with any authority that this is not just another gigantic hoax to terrify the masses into submission?

How about this for a fanciful scenario:

The 'bad guys' are already here amongst us. 'They' are doing everything in their power to misdirect our attention towards eternal hardship, hatred, fear & strife (IOW, projecting their own fears upon us all). Bombardment by asteroids seems to be becoming the flavour du jour, so we have to zap them before they zap us, right? Maybe the 'good guys' are living in these 'asteroids'...

---
Enough! The way forward lies within each of us living now. Follow your heart and be steadfast in 'being the change you wish to see in the world'. Leave the lizards to the nightmare factories and ex-sports commentators?_________________"We will lead every revolution against us!" - attrib: Theodor Herzl

But the zodiac starts in aries, not aquarius...why/how is aquarius relevant to the maya?

the sun takes thousands of years to travel through each consilation,

...not true, the sun takes one year to travel through all the signs. It's in Capricorn now as it always is at the end of December/start of January.That's what makes people born in that period Capricorns,then Aquarius etc..

It's basically an illusion caused by the Earth's orbit around the Sun.

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the sun will enter aquarius on or around the date the mayan calender ends.

No, the sun will enter aquarius on the 21st of January....in 15 days as it does every year.

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which will bring in a new age, the old age will end.

What you're referring to is the precession of the equinoxes. Google it. The age of aquarius begins when the sign of aquarius rises in the east on the vernal equinox. But that event is debatable. Technically it will not occur for a long time. Beyond 2012.

It's debatable whether or not the Maya used a zodiac at all. They were certainly master astronomers.

For possibilities as to what the Maya may have been alluding to I recommend Carl Calleman or John Major Jenkins for more info.

Last edited by Lee on Sun Jan 06, 2008 11:17 pm; edited 1 time in total

we don't know, all we do know is something is not being told to the masses.

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How about this for a fanciful scenario:

The 'bad guys' are already here amongst us. 'They' are doing everything in their power to misdirect our attention towards eternal hardship, hatred, fear & strife (IOW, projecting their own fears upon us all). Bombardment by asteroids seems to be becoming the flavour du jour, so we have to zap them before they zap us, right? Maybe the 'good guys' are living in these 'asteroids'...

are you suggesting that if the niburu scenerio is true it would not effect the asteroid belt???

if its true and it would effect the earth you can gaurentee it will effect the much closer asteroid belt if it does indeed come in between mars and jupiter.

big bodys in space have an effect on other bodys, a bit like the relationship between earth and the moon.

however there is a lot of disagreement as to wether niburu is true at all.
all i am saying is i hope it is not true because if it is, then it will effect the asteroid belt, which is just logical rather than.

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to misdirect our attention towards eternal hardship

but like you say

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How can we ever know what is really taking place?

or as i would say, how can we tell who is correct about what is going to happen? its just all opinon. it dos'nt mean its true or untrue.

however researching might help each of us have a better idea. you have to research planet x to know if its true or not, not just be paranoid everyone are disinfo shills and therefore overlook information.

But the zodiac starts in aries, not aquarius...why/how is aquarius relevant to the maya?

the sun takes thousands of years to travel through each consilation,

...not true, the sun takes one year to travel through all the signs. It's in Capricorn now as it always is at the end of December/start of January.That's what makes people born in that period Capricorns,then Aquarius etc..

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the sun will enter aquarius on or around the date the mayan calender ends.

No, the sun will enter aquarius on the 21st of January....in 15 days as it does every year.

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which will bring in a new age, the old age will end.

What you're referring to is the precession of the equinoxes. Google it. The age of aquarius begins when the sign of aquarius rises in the east on the vernal equinox. But that event is debatable. Technically it will not occur for a long time. Beyond 2012.

It's debatable whether or not the Maya used a zodiac at all. They were certainly master astronomers.

For possibilities as to what the Maya may have been alluding to I recommend Carl Calleman or John Major Jenkins for more info.

ok whatever, for some strange reason i thought it was the earth that went through the zodiac full circle each year.

did you look at the links? no i did'nt think so, im not the only one who are obviously misinformed.

They're working hard with their chemtrails, HAARP, cell tower, GWEN and all the multiple rest, to shut the frequency uplift down
That's the essential meaning of all they do and the drive toward the subdermal microchip. They want to redensify us or eliminate usand return to feudalism.
That's why I constantly emphasise work on this level to counter their abominable workings_________________http://www.exopolitics-leeds.co.uk/introduction

I repeat Lee
These folks are trying to change things
The natural happenstance as much as control and patenting of the DNA
It doesn't really matter much how the coordinates -um- coordinate
They are taking control
You can't leave it up to the heavens
The heavens is being taken over by Star Wars_________________http://www.exopolitics-leeds.co.uk/introduction

says somebody who thinks its the sun than travels the zodiac full circle every year and not the earth?

lee wrote:

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Lol...no, you think that.

lee wrote:

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No, the sun will enter aquarius on the 21st of January....in 15 days as it does every year.

lee wrote:

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Do you know the difference (before you google it) between tropical and sidereal astrology?

Or geo and heliocentric astrology?

i never claimed i was an expert on astrology, i was simply pointing out information a lot of people think is true, and offering the information for others to look at, but as usual idiots have to turn up and attack the person who brings information forward rather than tackling the information.

you go on as though it is my information, yet i am not the one who started it or is the only one saying it.

rather than attacking me, why not put your case together and show us that it is wrong?

without acting like ive committed a crime or it is MY information would be nice.

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Don't be rude either boy.

i'd love to know where i was rude, maybe its the way you read things, as though your in conflict rather than having a normal conversation?

says somebody who thinks its the sun than travels the zodiac full circle every year and not the earth?

This is an example of being rude. It's an underhanded insult. Up until that comment I had been completely civil with you.

lee wrote:

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Lol...no, you think that.

And you do...quote - "the sun takes thousands of years to travel through each consilation, the sun will enter aquarius on or around the date the mayan calender ends."

lee wrote:

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No, the sun will enter aquarius on the 21st of January....in 15 days as it does every year.

This is an astrological term which is astrologically correct. Unlike the incorrect one which you offered and I corrected. In Geocentric astrology which sees the Earth at the centre this is how it appears. The sun does 'enter' Aquarius every year and not just in 2012.

You were, as I pointed out referring to the precession of the equinoxes but because you hadn't mentioned that I wasn't sure if you understood correctly.

You also fail to include the sentence after that which I included...

"It's basically an illusion caused by the Earth's orbit around the Sun."

lee wrote:

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Do you know the difference (before you google it) between tropical and sidereal astrology?

Or geo and heliocentric astrology?

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i never claimed i was an expert on astrology, i was simply pointing out information a lot of people think is true, and offering the information for others to look at

...well, you do try to appear as some kind of expert, as in your quote..."it becomes obvious why the calender ends. because it starts again from scratch in the age of aquarius, simple."

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but as usual idiots have to turn up and attack the person who brings information forward rather than tackling the information.

So now I'm an idiot? All I have done is tackle the information you provided, I haven't once attacked you.

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you go on as though it is my information, yet i am not the one who started it or is the only one saying it.

rather than attacking me, why not put your case together and show us that it is wrong?

You didn't ask me to and besides I already pointed out two very distinguished authors on the Maya for you to get some really researched info about.

I don't need to show you that the info you have provided is wrong.The two men sat at some kind of pretend news desk don't offer any info. They just paraphrase.

But...the planets in this solar system do not line up in 2012 as stated by the man on the left. Look in any ephemeris and you will find the planets in various zodiacal signs geocentrically.

The Sun may be seen to line up with galactic centre, but thats debatable...see John Major Jenkins

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without acting like ive committed a crime or it is MY information would be nice.

I haven't done either

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Don't be rude either boy.

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i'd love to know where i was rude, maybe its the way you read things, as though your in conflict rather than having a normal conversation?

This isn't a normal conversation. But you were rude, I have shown how, possibly because you felt embarrassed about being so misinformed. You also failed to read my posts correctly. You also failed to check over what you yourself have written thereby trapping yourself in your own accusations.

i cannot copy and paste, so heres some of the information saying what i was saying, feel free to read it all.

the timing of the sun entering a new age.

the apparent movements of the signs of the zodiac across the sky not only take place on an annaul basis however. the cycle also occurs over a period of 25,920 years, often refered to as plato's great year.

refering back to the royal arch of ages of the zoidiac diagram: as the sun heralds in the dawn on december 21st 2012 we shall be entering a new zodical season: aquarius.......... a phenomenon which last occured almost 25,920 years ago!

does this answer the question? please note: if it is wrong provide information and links why, do not attack me for linking information that is readily available on the internet.

This is an example of being rude. It's an underhanded insult. Up until that comment I had been completely civil with you.

what you mean is you interprate it as an insult, i was simply calling into question the fact you think the sun travels through the zodiac once every year, if the sun revolved around the earth i would agree. but as the earth revolves around the sun which makes up the seasons and the earth moves through the heavens during that orbit i tend to disagree and would associate the yearly zodiac with the earths orbit not the suns.

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"the sun takes thousands of years to travel through each consilation, the sun will enter aquarius on or around the date the mayan calender ends."

how can i think the sun has a yearly cycle when i clearly state it takes thousands of years for the sun to move into each consilation or better put 'new age'.

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...well, you do try to appear as some kind of expert, as in your quote..."it becomes obvious why the calender ends. because it starts again from scratch in the age of aquarius, simple."

oh so you think the earth will disapear when the mayan calender ends? theres something strange about calenders, i don't know if you have noticed it or not? they all end and then start a fresh, have you noticed it? what makes you think the mayan calender is any different?

its got nothing to do with claiming to be an expert, it has more to do with observations of every other calender in the world.

can you imagine a mayan using the yearly calender? would they think the earth would end in one years time? or would they realise we were just timing something different and it would then started afresh after the year was up?

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This isn't a normal conversation. But you were rude, I have shown how, possibly because you felt embarrassed about being so misinformed. You also failed to read my posts correctly. You also failed to check over what you yourself have written thereby trapping yourself in your own accusations.

I am only rude when provoked but not always.

Please don't continue to.

yes it is a normal conversation, i give information, you come along take it all out of context and imply im talking about something it was'nt, people disagree about the information so they debate it, please show me any other part of the forum is different?.

a bit like you trying to make out im being rude due to the way you read comments which even if you think thats how i intended it i can gaurentee it is'nt.

Read up on astrology. The Sun, geocentrically, moves through the zodiac once a year. Although this is an illusion, that's how it appears to be.

By saying "the sun moves into Aquarius in 2012" you are clearly implying that you think the sun moves through the zodiac. I was simply pointing out this happens every year.

You were the one implying the Sun's movement.You didn't mention the precession.

Precession is different. What precession means is that the Sun,on the vernal equinox, will rise in the east (with slight variation) as it always has done but, on the supposed Age of Aquarius start date, the constellation Aquarius will be behind it. At the moment it's still Pisces and will not change over astrologically for many years.

You also seemed to think that Aquarius starts the cycle again when Aries begins the zodiac.

The reason why the Mayan date seems irrelevant is because the 13 Baktun cycle is only a fifth of the precessional cycle.

Precession is different. What precession means is that the Sun,on the vernal equinox, will rise in the east (with slight variation) as it always has done but, on the supposed Age of Aquarius start date, the constellation Aquarius will be behind it. At the moment it's still Pisces and will not change over astrologically for many years.

well im sorry i was'nt clear, i did however provide information inorder for people to find out, or decide if there is anything to it that could mark the 2012 date as something that is being timed, you keep implying that i am saying this, but in reality i am only bringing the information forward which i have looked at myself. so you'd need to provide said information that says said information is wrong, rather than just keep telling me im wrong which does nothing interms of proving wrong all the information out there saying otherwise.

however which ever way you look at it the sun moves into aquarius or aquarius will enter the sun, this may sound like implying the sun moves, but it is'nt it is simply stating what will happen as the event occures, maybe i should of chose better words, but how else do you explain the sun ending up in aquarius with out mentioning moving or shifting etc etc.

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You also seemed to think that Aquarius starts the cycle again when Aries begins the zodiac.

no i don't. i was simply observing all calenders and every calender that has ever exsisted has an end date, and that they start a fresh. therefore why would the mayan calender be any different?

besides when will you realise that just because we record things in certain way today dos'nt mean its always been that way. we also have 24 hours in a day, the mayan had 13.

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The reason why the Mayan date seems irrelevant is because the 13 Baktun cycle is only a fifth of the precessional cycle.

and our calender cycle is only a one fifth of 5 years, that dos'nt mean we don't have the means to record a 5 year event in its entirity. or even the same event in yearly terms, like said above 25,920 years.

the thing about calenders is you can make them as short or as long as you want, it all depends on whats being timed, a 6 month calender is just as good at keeping track of things it would just take two rotations to mark a year rather than one.

13 baktun may be a fifth but if it was repeated 5 times would that match the full cycle of the precessional cycle?

our calender is smaller and we can map the precessional cycle car'nt we?

you do not need a calender equal in its entire lenght to predict an event. you can break it down to smaller parts which simply takes a certain amount of completions to reach the date your were timing.

just like 10 completions of our calender marks a decade, we do not have a 10 year long calender to make this lenght of time, we simply use a smaller calender and complete 10 rotations of it.

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Read up on astrology. The Sun, geocentrically, moves through the zodiac once a year. Although this is an illusion, that's how it appears to be.

but i was not talking about this optical illusion was i? this is what you brought forth which confused the discussion between us.

partily my fault for not being clearer, and wording it as the sun moving into aquarius, but none the less i never refered to this optical illusion which is caused via the earths rotation/orbit/tilt. i think we are both clear which event is being refered to now, so we can drop these parts they add nothing now it is clear.

the only thing im intrested in now its been cleared up what we are talking about is some sort of evidence of when the event will occure.

theres lots of information that says on or around 2012, can you link something thats saying that is rubbish or predictes a totally different date for what ever reason?

just to add and explain my logic so it is clear i do not claim to be some sort of expert.

first of all there is a process that exsists its called thinking for 'yourself', its something that many think they do however all they do is repeat information they were told and fail to connect dots.

so my logic went something like hhhmmm 2012, many say the sun ends up in aquarius at this time bringing in a NEW age, many say galatic centre, many say a lot of things but 2012 is significant for what ever reason. hhmmm the mayan calender ends on this date also.

hhmmm NEW age/ END of calender. i wonder? where else in history has an end marked a new start? thats right calenders! i believe it is very possible whatever it is that is being timed completes its cycle on 2012 and things start a new in a new age.

wether you believe it is spiritual advancement or whatever. 2012 dos'nt mean end of the world. there could be those trying to simulate it but it should'nt be, any end of the world will be manmade.

unless theorys about nirubu or galatic centre are correct in which case debatable on what effects that will have on the earth and where nirubu is concerned vast disagreement anyway. galatic centre im not sure about interms of how many disagree. however the event with the sun being in aquarius even you seem to accept as a possible event, the only thing in question is the date.

but i'd bet this event is why 2012 is significant and what is being timed both in history and by the powers that be to ensure we are all enslaved fully in everyway by this time, because it will bring change spiritually, and before anyone starts that dos'nt mean sitting back and relaxing, people would still need to work at becoming free. what i mean is a higer awareness of all things, that dos'nt gaurentee freedom or change but if true would make it easier interms of making people aware why the world is a hell hole making change a lot more likely, which we are all witnessing all the time as it appoaches. people start a conversation with me sometimes about things i use to find dodgy interms of a bad reaction or being laughed at without ever mentioning that subject to them previously.

i think people are starting to become self aware about certain injustices, i don't think all are wilfully blind about everything. something is shifting and something is causing it.

its not even as though im making up this information, so if you think its wrong please provide links why.

from the link below.........

evidence of the age of Additional evidence for the great age of the Sphinx may perhaps be indicated by the astronomical significance of its shape, being that of a lion. Roughly every two thousand years (2160 to be exact), and because of the precession of the equinoxes, the sun on the vernal equinox rises against the stellar background of a different constellation. For the past two thousand years that constellation has been Pisces the Fish, symbol of the Christian age. Prior to the age of Pisces it was the age of Aries the Ram, and before that it was the age of Taurus the Bull....................................Sphinx seems to have been sculpted sometime before 10,000 BC, and this period coincides with the Age of Leo the Lion, which lasted from 10,970 to 8810 BC.

It really boils down to creating a boundary line we can all accept. These star maps are changeable. People change. Star maps are valid because the society that created them agreed upon them, and that agreement is usually good enough for those who want to use that particular methodology. The Chinese constellations were different from the Mayan constellations and different from the Hebrew, the Greek, Roman and Egyptian.

so there was vast disagreement amongst the civilisations as to when one age started and another ended? whos civilisation are you getting your predicted date from? ours or the mayans? or some other?

there is also this that believes it is going to be some time of just as a counter.
but i have read that some consilations overlap a little, or are closer together than others, if true it is down to each civilsation to agree when certain ages have begun and each would indeed get different calculations depending on how the saw it, and with what the age of aquarius is said to bring it could bring a level of consciousness that brings peace which is why 2012 is so significant compare to others, quite simply it would be the best time to experience life and i have read many pages that seem to suggest there is disagreement on lines drawn in the sky and that many civilisations have disagreed. so 2012 could be a date some have predicted as the start of that time.

meaning an age of knowledge, independent thought and demands for freedom and progress.

i would argue it is closer than you think based on personnal experiences or there is some form of awakening leading up to it? all you have to do is notice what is happening today at an increasing rate.

anyway, im sure some will disagree but provide a reason why. history stinks of age symbology and humanitys conciousness has reflected each age, either because there is something in it or we are manipulated into change to reflect the age as some sort of faith or rules the ptb have worshipped since the beginning of civilisations(just a possibility i have no proof other than that, other than picses(the fish) being significant to this age in religon in a controlled society) or maybe it was'nt so controlled back then and they know whats coming, hence enslavement to stop the next age from having an influence.

who knows i feel like im treading glass sharing my thoughts but i aint going to be put of by others, who seem to think everything is disinfo or everyone is working for the ptb, rather than understanding it is simply people looking at information, thinking for themselves and digesting the information or get others imput inorder to have a fuller picture of the facts or what things point to.

The Law of Attraction has to do with the energy frequencies of thought. A thought in a person's mind causes a vibration that travels out into the universe. The universe responds to these vibrations. Higher thought frequencies (positive thinking) cause the universe to respond in positive ways. Lower thought frequencies (negative thinking) causes the universe to respond in undesirable manners.

frequencies in the universe that emit our way which is picked up by the sun somehow and passes on into the the solar system? could each zodiac sign actually represent a frequency a point in the universe that emits certain frequencies which is then amplified when alined with the sun effecting each one of us in a way depending on which frequency is being emitted in our solar system.

i have no idea at all, but could explain why each age is significant thoughout history and why 2012 is important.

They're working hard with their chemtrails, HAARP, cell tower, GWEN and all the multiple rest, to shut the frequency uplift down

For the most part I agree but chemtrails? Perhaps I missed some vital info somewhere but surely anyone with a bit of influence in the aviation field could analyse the fuel before it's burnt?

Another fairly simple approach would be balloons carrying sensitive (ppb) gas chromatographic equipment. From some of the photos I've seen and vapour trails experienced, any chemical additions would be easy to spot.

Effing around with gigahertz and VLF is another matter entirely!! But it seems the more damping 'they' attempt, the more people are tuning in. Ain't chaos grand? ;-)_________________"We will lead every revolution against us!" - attrib: Theodor Herzl

It really boils down to creating a boundary line we can all accept. These star maps are changeable. People change. Star maps are valid because the society that created them agreed upon them, and that agreement is usually good enough for those who want to use that particular methodology. The Chinese constellations were different from the Mayan constellations and different from the Hebrew, the Greek, Roman and Egyptian.

each civilisation calculated differently, mainly because drawing lines in the sky and deciding where each consilation starts and ends would vary from civilisation to civilisation, due to consilations overlapping, or some consilations being ferther apart than others.

ok now consider this:

It takes the Solar System 26,000 Earth years to complete one orbital cycle around Alcyone. It takes 72 years to complete one degree of the 360 degree total. This full period is a ‘year’ for the Sun or one Sidereal Year. This in turn can be divided into sectors (or ‘pieces of cake’!) of two different groupings.

it takes 72 years for a 1 degree difference. if civilisations disagreed where consilations started and ended then drawing lines in the sky in a different place to another civilisation would mean a small difference in degrees but a huge difference in years.

ok now consider this:

The end date is not agreed by leading experts because no one is exactly sure of when the calendar began. Some say it was Aug 11. 3,114 B.Cand some say it was Aug 13. 3,114 B.C. This problem arose because of trying to translate the Mayan calendar to our calendar which changed along the way from Julian to Gregorian. Therefore the great cycle of 5,125 years either ends Dec 21st 2012 or Dec 23rd 2012.

The Tzolkin neatly divides into five sections referred to as castles.
Within each castle are four wavespells.
Each castle lasts 52 days. When you live with the calendar you begin to notice that the castles
are in a sense like seasons with their own character.
Paying attention to which wavespell you are in is important but it is also useful to know what castle you are in.

"but it is also useful to know what castle you are in." to who? the maya?

how it works today with zodiac is basically the same, we have a yearly zodiac but also the longer periods that the sun is said to be in which marks a new age, we are currently in picses, each new age takes roughly 2,100 years of 12 signs, and a full cycle takes 25,920 years.

i believe the mayan did it differently. the season or which castle they were in was more important to them rather than which zodiac sign, so they had 5 periods of 5,125 years rather than 12 periods of 2,100 years.

this way they could map which castle the sun was in rather than which zodiac sign the sun was in.

5 periods of 5,125 years = 25,625 years.

quite close to the 25,920 year cycle, it is 295 years out. it sounds like a lot but the mayan would not of been mapping this in years, they would of been mapping it by observing the skys.

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it takes 72 years for a 1 degree difference

295 years shared by 72 = 4.09 degrees out.

now reconsider this:

Quote:

It really boils down to creating a boundary line we can all accept.

my conclusion is that the baktun being one fifth of the pressional cycle is not by mistake, when you consider the 5 castles or 'seasons' and the fact that calculations varied throughout civilisations.

they were mapping the astrological event just the same as any other civilisation including our own.

they mapped the event to occur on december 21st 2012. which is not an end date, the baktun just starts from scratch to mark the sun reentering the first 'season' of the 5 before the next great event.

wether they predicted the correct date or not is another matter entirely.

Another fairly simple approach would be balloons carrying sensitive (ppb) gas chromatographic equipment. From some of the photos I've seen and vapour trails experienced, any chemical additions would be easy to spot.

Must be getting desperate to quote myself but seems I am way behind the curve on this... Nevertheless, the only 'comprehensive' sites I've perused on chemtrails wouldn't last five minutes under the eagle eyes and minds on this board.

A CATASTROPHE FOR HUMAN HEALTH
From Global Research
by Amy Worthington

" Dumping tons of particulate matter from aircraft has geo-engineered our planetary atmosphere into a highly charged, electrically-conductive plasma useful for military projects. The air we breathe is laden with asbestos-sized synthetic fibers and toxic metals, including barium salts, aluminum, and reportedly, radioactive thorium.9 These materials act as electrolytes to enhance conductivity of military radar and radio waves.10 Poisonous on par with arsenic and a proven suppressant of the human immune system,11 atmospheric barium weakens human muscles, including those of the heart.12 Inhaled aluminum goes directly to the brain and medical specialists confirm that it causes oxidative stress within brain tissue, leading to formation of Alzheimer's like neurofibrillary tangles.13 Radioactive thorium is known to cause leukemia and other cancers."

Case studies would be appropriate but unlike DU, there don't seem to be any that can be directly attributed to chemtrails.

What has this to do with 2012? Who knows...EMP buffer?_________________"We will lead every revolution against us!" - attrib: Theodor Herzl

Cheers Thermate. At least you stick with something fairly simple. To argue over astrological buktans or suchlike is enough to drive you MAD.
You simply have the bad intent and the various ways they try to do it
It's all so frikkin simple and the ways to oppose it.
No need for this avalanche of esoteric debate
It's the confusion and endless worry they espouse_________________http://www.exopolitics-leeds.co.uk/introduction

Last edited by paul wright on Tue Jan 08, 2008 11:58 pm; edited 1 time in total

They're working hard with their chemtrails, HAARP, cell tower, GWEN and all the multiple rest, to shut the frequency uplift down

For the most part I agree but chemtrails? Perhaps I missed some vital info somewhere but surely anyone with a bit of influence in the aviation field could analyse the fuel before it's burnt?

Another fairly simple approach would be balloons carrying sensitive (ppb) gas chromatographic equipment. From some of the photos I've seen and vapour trails experienced, any chemical additions would be easy to spot.

Effing around with gigahertz and VLF is another matter entirely!! But it seems the more damping 'they' attempt, the more people are tuning in. Ain't chaos grand?

ps people are tuning in because of the changing frequencies.It's a natural process. They're being exposed. Their grandest technological designs can't quite hold the grid
Chemtrails are the kind of celestial soup or witches brew
A plasma as often described, up there, through which they convey the control frequencies
Disperse them and the spell is broken
Gotcha!

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