Am I the only one who really liked Indy IV? I've read soooooo many complaints! People say it didn't make sense or too far fetched. How far fetched was the Arc and it's powers killing and melting people? How about T.O.D? Pulling beating hearts out of living people and stones that have power. And The Last Crusade where a knights Templer was on guard for hundeds of years? ALL of these movies were far fetched. It's called Fiction people! I was just so excited waiting all these years and FINALLY being able to see Indy back on the big screen! Really, the only part of Indy IV I didn't care for was Mutt swinging from the vines like a monkey. That scene shoulda never happened! I think too many people have "grown up" and become movie critics! I think they have lost the fantasy and imagination they had as a kid. If they would just sit back and enjoy the movie for what it is, they would have enjoyed it more. I'm longing for another one. Bring it on. I don't care what it's about. Make 5 more, the more the better! It lets me get lost into the Indiana Jones adventure for a couple of hours and brings back many great memories I had as a 10 year old child seeing Raiders of the lost Arc for the first time.

As Micky wrote, "...some people are more easily pleased than are others."

Quote:

Originally Posted by scott434

Really, the only part of Indy IV I didn't care for was Mutt swinging from the vines like a monkey. That scene shoulda never happened!

Why not?

After all,

Quote:

Originally Posted by scott434

ALL of these movies were far fetched. It's called Fiction people!

As a 10 year old child seeing KOTCS for the first time you would probably have enjoyed watching Mutt do a Tarzan impression with a troop of performing monkeys.

Quote:

Originally Posted by scott434

I think too many people have "grown up" and become movie critics! I think they have lost the fantasy and imagination they had as a kid. If they would just sit back and enjoy the movie for what it is, they would have enjoyed it more.

Why have an atom bomb, a flying fridge, three waterfalls, a snake in a sandpit, a wannabe son, an annoying wife-to-be, a half-hearted double crossing friend, an under-employed and under-qualified villainess, a spaceship, and then leave out Mutt swinging from the vines with monkeys?

Montana Smith, You have WAAAAAY too much time on your hands to disect my post like you did. You must not enjoy much movies that come out. I'm not being ugly, it just seems like you would be very hard to please. Maybe I'm just too easy to please? I just love all things Indy & glad we had at least 4. Even though the chances for a 5th are slim, I'm still ready to stand in line for my ticket.

Montana Smith, You have WAAAAAY too much time on your hands to disect my post like you did.

The Raven is the place for deconstruction!

Quote:

Originally Posted by scott434

You must not enjoy much movies that come out. I'm not being ugly, it just seems like you would be very hard to please.

I'm easily pleased by Indy #1, #2 and #3. But #4, after the Doom Town sequence (beginning with the moment the fridge landed) was a film full of facepalms. While the first three were parody, the last was a parody of the parody. One step too far. After the fridge there was no impetus, and little belief in some of the characters.

If the first three films were cartoons, they would be classic Tom and Jerry , and KOTCS would be Roger Ramjet.

Quote:

Originally Posted by roundshort

Because as a stand alone movie it totally sucked. Knowing it was part of the Indiana Jones movies makes it even worse than Plan 9 form Outer Space!

It was 19 years too late. An experiment that blew up the laboratory and created something completely different. It lacks the sense that anything within it really matters. The original trilogy, while being fairly wild, had an internal consistency. KOTCS is too reliant on sources no longer associated with the cliffhangers of the '30s and '40s. It's a product of The Atomic Kid, the unused fridge from Back To The Future, '50s kitsch, and the need to wow an audience with massive spectacle over human drama, which robs the film of any depth.

It does glide along on the surface much in the manner of Plan 9 From Outer Space. And when you feel no connection to many of the characters, and see that some of the actors don't quite know why they're there, it becomes a boring exercise to reach the end without hitting fast forward.

Am I the only one who really liked Indy IV? I've read soooooo many complaints!

Firstly, Scott, welcome to The Raven - where the whip-cracking never stops!

Secondly, some people liked the film so you're not alone. It's actually refreshing to see a new Raven member who enjoyed it rather than a negative naysayer joining up (or a new member who hasn't even seen Indy 4 yet).

Quote:

Originally Posted by Montana Smith

If the first three films were cartoons, they would be classic Tom and Jerry , and KOTCS would be Roger Ramjet.

Animation values aside, "Roger Ramjet" was great. Don't knock it, Smiffy! (Anyway, it was made by a different animation company and was a different genre of cartoon.) A better comparison with "Tom and Jerry" would be "Ruff and Reddy". A cat & dog cartoon that Hanna-Barbera made 17 years later with a cliffhanger format, not violent and has plenty of aliens & flying saucers!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Montana Smith

While the first three were parody, the last was a parody of the parody.
---
KOTCS is too reliant on sources no longer associated with the cliffhangers of the '30s and '40s. It's a product of The Atomic Kid, the unused fridge from Back To The Future, '50s kitsch,...

While what you write here is true, for me, the non-association with cliffhangers isn't Indy 4's detracting factor because 'parody of the parody' began with "Crusade". Little of Indy 3 was rooted in the serials so it's no surprise that #4 wasn't either. The classic-cliffhanger-association is not a rule to make/break the movie.

---
To answer Scott's often repeated question: I think people are hard on "Skull" because they had overblown expectations. (It was actually better than I thought it would be!)

I don't think it matters as much that it was nineteen years later. They just could have done something better with it than what we saw. I would have loved to be a fly on the wall and hear why (or how) they gave the nod to this installment.

Animation values aside, "Roger Ramjet" was great. Don't knock it, Smiffy! (Anyway, it was made by a different animation company and was a different genre of cartoon.) A better comparison with "Tom and Jerry" would be "Ruff and Reddy". A cat & dog cartoon that Hanna-Barbera made 17 years later with a cliffhanger format, not violent and has plenty of aliens & flying saucers!...

I knew there was another one, but it kept slipping off the edge of my brain!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stoo

While what you write here is true, for me, the non-association with cliffhangers isn't Indy 4's detracting factor because 'parody of the parody' began with "Crusade". Little of Indy 3 was rooted in the serials so it's no surprise that #4 wasn't either. The classic-cliffhanger-association is not a rule to make/break the movie.

Forced to do the bidding of a villainess whoís more bluster than competence. [GREED]

Discovering his friend is even more mercenary than himself. [TREACHERY]

Escaping only to walk into an atomic test site, then making off by means of a fridge. [FRAUD]

Mistaken for a Communist by his government, then forced by the alien skull to do its bidding. [ANGER]

Meeting the kooky woman who used to be Marion. [LUST]

Rescued by the upstart son from a sandpit by means of a snake. Discovering that his friend is doolally, and his other friend is barely a real person at all. A swing with the monkeys, a timely rubber tree and three waterfalls. [GLUTTONY]

The stubborn bachelor is finally shackled to the kooky woman and forced to defend himself against the ambitions of the upstart son. [HERESY]

I would not like it
here or there.
I would not like it
anywhere.
I do not like
Kingdom of the Crystal Ham.
I do not like it,
Sam-I-am

Would you like it
in a house?
Would you like it
with a mouse?

I do not like it
in a house.
I do not like it
with a mouse.
I do not like it
here or there.
I do not like it
anywhere.
I do not like Kingdom of the Crystal Ham.
I do not like it, Sam-I-am.

Would you watch it
in a box?
Would you watch it
with a fox?

Not in a box.
Not with a fox.
Not in a house.
Not with a mouse.
I would not watch it here or there.
I would not watch it anywhere.
I would not watch Kingdom of the Crystal Ham.
I do not like it, Sam-I-am.

Would you? Could you?
in a car?
Watch it! Watch it!
Here they are.

I would not ,
could not,
in a car

You may like it.
You will see.
You may like it
in a tree?
I would not in a tree.
I would not, could not in a tree.
Not in a car! You let me be.

I do not like it in a box.
I do not like it with a fox
I do not like it in a house
I do mot like it with a mouse
I do not like it here or there.
I do not like it anywhere.
I do not like Kingdom of the Crystal Ham.
I do not like it, Sam-I-am.

A train! A train!
A train! A train!
Could you, would you
on a train?

Not on a train! Not in a tree!
Not in a car! Sam! Let me be!
I would not, could not, in a box.
I could not, would not, with a fox.
I will not watch it with a mouse
I will not watch it in a house.
I will not watch it here or there.
I will not watch it anywhere.
I do not like it, Sam-I-am.

Say!
In the dark?
Here in the dark!
Would you, could you, in the dark?

I would not, could not,
in the dark.

Would you, could you,
in the rain?

I would not, could not, in the rain.
Not in the dark. Not on a train,
Not in a car, Not in a tree.
I do not like it, Sam, you see.
Not in a house. Not in a box.
Not with a mouse. Not with a fox.
I will not watch it here or there.
I do not like it anywhere!

You do not like
Kingdom of the Crystal Ham?

I do not
like it,
Sam-I-am.

Could you, would you,
with a goat?

I would not,
could not.
with a goat!

Would you, could you,
on a boat?

I could not, would not, on a boat.
I will not, will not, with a goat.
I will not watch it in the rain.
I will not watch it on a train.
Not in the dark! Not in a tree!
Not in a car! You let me be!
I do not like it in a box.
I do not like it with a fox.
I will not watch it in a house.
I do not like it with a mouse.
I do not like it here or there.
I do not like it ANYWHERE!

I do not like
Kingdom of the
Crystal Ham!

I do not like it,
Sam-I-am.

You do not like it.
SO you say.
Try it! Try it!
And you may.
Try it and you may I say.

Sam!
If you will let me be,
I already tried it.
You donít see.

Say!
I donít like Kingdom of the Crystal Ham!
I donít!! I donít like it, Sam-I-am!
And I wouldnít watch it in a boat!
And I wouldnít watch it with a goat...
And I wonít watch it in the rain.
Or in the dark. Or on a train.
Or in a car. Or in a tree.
It is so bad so bad you see!

So I wonít watch it in a box.
And I wonít watch it with a fox.
And I wonít watch it in a house.
And I wonít watch it with a mouse.
And I wonít watch it here and there.
Say! I wonít watch it ANYWHERE!

I do so dislike
Kingdom of the Crystal Ham!
Thank you!
Thank you,
Sam-I-am

Shel Silverstein's "Where The Sidewalk Ends" could also be mined for inspiration:

There is a place where the franchise ends
and before the reboot begins,
and there the hair grows thin and white,
and there mushroom clouds burn crimson bright,
and there the fridge rests from his flight
to cool in the atomic wind.

Let us leave this place where Marion comes back,
and then births a Mutt to send.
Past sand pits and past Colonel Spalko,
we shall walk with a walk that is measured and slow
and watch where defeated moguls go
to the place where the franchise ends.

Yes we'll walk with a walk that is measured and slow,
and we'll go where inter-dimensional beings go,
for the fans, they weep, and the haters, they know,
the place where the franchise ends.

Shel Silverstein's "Where The Sidewalk Ends" could also be mined for inspiration:

There is a place where the franchise ends
and before the reboot begins,
and there the hair grows thin and white,
and there mushroom clouds burn crimson bright,
and there the fridge rests from his flight
to cool in the atomic wind.

Let us leave this place where Marion comes back,
and then births a Mutt to send.
Past sand pits and past Colonel Spalko,
we shall walk with a walk that is measured and slow
and watch where defeated moguls go
to the place where the franchise ends.

Yes we'll walk with a walk that is measured and slow,
and we'll go where inter-dimensional beings go,
for the fans, they weep, and the haters, they know,
the place where the franchise ends.

Location: The distant figure that walks the treeline. The man standing in the field.

Posts: 4,152

Quote:

Originally Posted by scott434

I don't watch movies and get in depth as much as others do I guess.

I'm about the same way. I'm on the fence about Kingdom, but I overall did enjoy it. I didn't go in with a critical eye like a lot of users here, nor do I look too much into it almost five years later. It is what it is.

I don't try to be hard on the movie, some of the scenes that others really hate don't bother me that much, but overall I didn't like the story, I thought the actors lacked chemistry together, and for me they ruined the character of Marion. I didn't think Mutt was a good fit for Indy's offspring either. That whole family of Indy, Marion and Mutt just didn't work for me and I'd have rather seen something different.

But for me the most telling thing that this movie isn't on a par with the others is that Parts 1, 2 and 3 are all still very watchable movies for me, but 4 just....isn't.....