IMO Catholism is Satanic. Satanism is misunderstood. Christianity is Gnosticism on a diet. Islam same as Christianity, just improved. Sufism close to Gnosticism. Buddhism very nice but somewhat flawed. Hindusim a bit silly, but has some merit as does Norse/Greek mythology. Shamanism: the origin of all "paths" I just mentioned. For me I go to the source, which brings me to orgasms.

The orgasm is the source of YOU. That cannot be denied. You can meet God in an orgasm. Every sperm is not sacred by default. It is a documented "fact" I think that the more you ejacluate the healthier your semen is. Sexual energy is a healthy energy, but only if put to good use. Jerking off to child porn day and night might not bring you closer to some sort of higher realm.

Don't blame the tools.

I agree with you, Dev.

However, I only participated in this thread with the intention of helping Cheetah... and I agree with each one of your statements, but without a longer elaboration, I don't think they will help Cheetah (they are too hard to understand for anyone who doesn't have a strong Gnostic *culture*).

The Chaldean Oracles explain quite well the main Gnostic idea:

"The Father effused not Fear, but He infused persuasion.
The Father hath apprehended Himself and hath not restricted his Fire to his own intellectual power.
The inscrutable God is called silent by the divine ones, and is said to consent with Mind, and to be known to human souls through the power of the Mind alone.
Such is the Mind which is energized before energy, while yet it had not gone forth, but abode in the Paternal Depth, and in the Adytum of God nourished silence.
All things have issued from that one Fire. The Father perfected all things, and delivered them over to the Second Mind, whom all Nations of Men call the First.
The Second Mind conducts the Empyrean. World"

You can find many versions of Gnosticism, Cheetah... some of them are Christian (the main branches of Christian Gnosticism are Sethian Gnosticism and Valentinean Gnosticism... though some Christian philosophers perfectly fit into Gnosticism without being related to Sethianism or Valentineanism -i.e, Origen, Nicholas of Cusa) and some of them are Pagan (like the Chaldean Oracles, Hermeticism -I mean the Alexandrian Hermeticism that can be found in the Corpus Hermeticum... and not the later development of Hermeticism which somehow turned Christian in Europe... the philosophy of Plotinus and Porphyry ... there's lots of etceteras).

The CORE idea of Gnosticism (without caring if it is Christian or Pagan) is that there is a transcendental God (which is quite often associated with the idea of non-being -like the form of Good in Plato's Republic) who created the Being and emanations of Himself in the realm of the "Being".

The different branches of Gnosticism perceive that one of this emanations ignored his origins and though that He was the "first" God, the "uncreated" God... but this ignorance made this emanation become a Jealous God, filled with self-created laws, commandments, the need to take revenge, etc. In some traditions this God is equal to Satan (though is some other Christian Gnostic traditions there is a difference between this "false God" and Satan).

It is very hard for us to conceive something that exists beyond the realm of Being... because that's also the limit of our language... We can't speak about that which exists above the Being... So we have a natural tendency to worship an "ignorant" emanation of God that exists in the realm of the Being. This is the God that the Catholic Church worships... a God of war, revenge, laws, control, inquisition, torture, restriction. It is in this sense that it is possible to say that the Catholic Church is Satanic.

When I was a teen I was quite interested in the so-called "sex magic"... nowadays I am not.
I'm not truly interested in loveless sex... mostly because I perceive sex as one of the most transcendental acts of union between two persons (this statement doesn't condemn at all masturbation)... and maybe this Union is the most sacred activity that takes place on Earth.

Maybe you've heard of the word "Egregore"... each group has an "Egregore" (the Churches, the magical orders, the corporations, the boy-scouts, the Republicans, the Democrats... everything). We are all part of different egregores.

It is my opinion that the most sacred egregore is the one that exists between 2 persons who love each other... and sexuality is one of the main expressions of this egregore.
My point of view is that nothing should interfere with this egregore (no ritual, no Church, no prayers, no marriages, no magical organizations, no system of beliefs, nothing***) and the transcendental God loves it, because it is an expression of love, light and life... even if very "dirty" things happen during that sacred encounter, because something very "dirty" can actually be something that is extremely "clean" and "pure".

*** I don't see a problem if two persons who are married decide to have sex, but I actually think that the bond created by sex is stronger than the bond created by marriage.

I don't disagree with you, Cheetah, when you state that procreation is the TRUE sense of love... it's just that "procreation" is NOT limited to "babies". The offspring of sex can also be love, freedom, smiles, peace... and that's a very "Godly" offspring.

And, as Dev said, such thing doesn't mean that EVERYTHING related to sex is "sacred" (i.e, I don't see anything sacred in the act of rape, but quite the opposite).

Thanks for the insight Zoas. Though I'm not a big reader on religion (even when I do I take every work out of context and use it for my own advantage while still learning the original context :P so that also probably blurs my verbal communication), forming a relationship with what egregore I believe in I find I like doing more, its like a 65 to 35 % ratio.

And no I've never heard/read that word until now (egregore)

I understand how something "dirty" can be "clean" (pure is an interesting word however, I'm surprised you used it) because its simply opposite.
I see how something "dirty" can bring life, light and love, but then why would one call it dirty?
Im scared that I'm "peeling" my subconscious layers unconsciously now lol

Thanks for the insight Zoas. Though I'm not a big reader on religion (even when I do I take every work out of context and use it for my own advantage while still learning the original context :P so that also probably blurs my verbal communication), forming a relationship with what egregore I believe in I find I like doing more, its like a 65 to 35 % ratio.

And no I've never heard/read that word until now (egregore)

I understand how something "dirty" can be "clean" (pure is an interesting word however, I'm surprised you used it) because its simply opposite.
I see how something "dirty" can bring life, light and love, but then why would one call it dirty?
Im scared that I'm "peeling" my subconscious layers unconsciously now lol

I.e, Leviticus 15:

16 “‘When a man has an emission of semen, he must bathe his whole body with water, and he will be unclean till evening. 17 Any clothing or leather that has semen on it must be washed with water, and it will be unclean till evening. 18 When a man has sexual relations with a woman and there is an emission of semen, both of them must bathe with water, and they will be unclean till evening.

19 “‘When a woman has her regular flow of blood, the impurity of her monthly period will last seven days, and anyone who touches her will be unclean till evening.

20 “‘Anything she lies on during her period will be unclean, and anything she sits on will be unclean. 21 Anyone who touches her bed will be unclean; they must wash their clothes and bathe with water, and they will be unclean till evening. 22 Anyone who touches anything she sits on will be unclean; they must wash their clothes and bathe with water, and they will be unclean till evening. 23 Whether it is the bed or anything she was sitting on, when anyone touches it, they will be unclean till evening.

24 “‘If a man has sexual relations with her and her monthly flow touches him, he will be unclean for seven days; any bed he lies on will be unclean.

I do remember that one of the first times I've had sex with my partner, she was having her period (menses). She was somehow concerned that I may find such thing disgusting, so she told me about it in advance.
I remember that I covered my hands with her blood and painted a sun, a moon and a symbol of infinity on my heart with that blood.
I was very much in love... and I still love her more than I can love anything or anyone else.
These symbols represented for me this lovely union... the act can be perceived as something very "dirty" or something very "pure".

I could have chosen to follow the laws of Leviticus and scream at her: "You are unclean, and if I touch you I will be unclean too! And the bed is unclean, so I can't sleep here! What a curse, maybe the whole world is unclean right not because you have your period... and I should send you to the shower, but maybe the shower will get unclean too!"

But I decided to do something that I considered sacred, pure, innocent, nice, dirty and yet CLEAN... and we both smiled.

A singer I like a lot: Diamanda Galas... she has this fantastic song, which I find very Gnostic.
It begins quoting Leviticus and it's laws about what is "Unclean".
Then she goes on with some Psalms...
And finishes with her own conclusion about these ideas and identifies them as "Satanic" ideas and gives the Devil a new name: "Impotent, homophobe and coward!".

[Leviticus, Chapter 15. from the Old Testament]

When any man hath an issue out of his flesh.
Because of that issue he is unclean.
Every bed whereon he lieth is unclean
and everything whereon he sitteth, unclean.
And whosoever toucheth his bed shall be unclean,
And he that sitteth whereon he sat shall be unclean.
And he that toucheth
the flesh of the unclean
Becomes unclean.
And he that be spat on by him unclean
Becomes unclean.
And whosoever toucheth anything under him
shall be unclean.
And he that beareth any of those things
shall be unclean.
And what saddle soever he rideth upon is unclean
And the vessel of earth that he toucheth, unclean.
And if any man's seed of copulation go out from him,
he is unclean.
Every garment, every skin whereon is the seed, unclean.
And the woman with whom this man shall lie
shall be unclean.
And whosoever toucheth her will be unclean.
This is the law of the plague:
to teach when it is clean and when it is unclean.
And the priest shall look upon the plague
for a rising, and for a scab, and for a bright spot.
And the priest shall shut up he that hath the plague.
He shall carry them forth to a place unclean.
He shall separate them in their uncleaness.
This is the law of the plague:
To teach when it is clean and when it is unclean.

[excerpt from Psalm 22]

Many bulls compass me, Lord
Strong bulls of Baashah do beset me round.
They gape me with their mouths
as a ravening and a roaring lion.
But thou, O Lord, shall bring them down.
Thou shalt bring them down into the pit of destruction
greedy and deceitful men shall be exposed as vermin
And their days as iniquity.

[excerpt from Psalms 58 and 59,
and text by Diamanda Galas]

Deliver me from mine enemies, O My God
Deliver me from the workers of iniquity
and save me from bloody men.
For lo, they lie in wait for my soul
The mighty are gathered against me
not for my transgressions, not for my sin, O Lord
They run and prepare themselves without my fault
Awake to help me and behold:
Swords are in their lips, for who, say they, doth hear.
But thou, O Lord, shall laugh at them
The God of my mercy shall let me see my desire
upon mine enemies
And at evening, let them make a noise like a dog.
and go around about the city
Let them walk up and down for meat
and grudge if they be not satisfied.
Break out the great teeth of the young lions,
Oh My God,
and when they laugh at the trial of the innocent
Let them be cut as in pieces!
Bring them down, O Lord, our shield.

[text by Diamanda Galas]

The Devil is an impotent man
He says it nice and plays himself off as the friend.
He tries to make you uncertain
so your hands shake
and then he tells you you're insane
when you call him by his rightful name:
Impotent homophobe and coward!
So you will miss when you aim at this evil man
who cannot get it up
except
in the T.V. public operating room
of another man's misfortune!

So... if you ask a Catholic Priest what he thinks about an unmarried couple painting themselves with menses, he will tell you that it's a horrible sin and probably something "Satanic".

But if I ask MY God, he smiles and welcomes love... and laughs at the ignorance of the Catholic Priest who worships Satan and believes that Satan is God.

So... it is a matter of perspectives, Cheetah...

Just imagine yourself in that same situation: You are in love with a girl, she is in love with you. She's having her period... and somehow confused about how you would feel about such thing.

A) Does YOUR God want you to tell her: "You are unclean, and the bed where you are sitting in unclean... and if I even dare to touch a hair of your head I'll be unclean and you have even ruined the chairs of my house because you are unclean!"... ?

B) Or does YOUR GOd smile when there is an act of love and doesn't get offended by menses and likes to see two persons smiling and being happy and doing something that harms no one?

My God is not a homophobe coward, he likes love, he doesn't like priests who speak in his name and mix him with their own prejudices. My God is not a misogynist eunuch who likes self-torture. My God doesn't seek revenge, he has no commandments against love or sex... and he smiles a lot.

What could possibly be a more important endeavor than the journey for wisdom? I think one who makes it a priority over all other things is on the purest path. In the beginning was thought, un-manifested realities soon to be. Potential energy at its purest and most raw. The return to the source is only possible through knowledge, no other path is more noble. Just my take on it.

Journey for wisdom yes. Desire for knowledge no. Words make all the difference. LOL.

Although, from experience, I think you hear wisdom if you stop listening for it... see it, if you stop looking for it... etc.

Recently I have come to the understanding that (for me at least) there is no need to return to the source. I am already there. So the thing is more about "holding that space". I understand why you use the words "noble" and "honourable", and I guess every individual have words that they feel express their feelings... I personally equate those words with "war mongering" and "nobility" and "elitism"... but I am certain you are not at all thinking about those things when you say those words.

However (for me) I don't think it is healthy to view anything I do as good, noble, righteous, honourable etc... is reeks of pride. Because real wisdom is to be aware that we cannot fully know the true scope of the Divine Mystery (call it what you like) in this manifestation... it kind of defeats the point of being in this realm in the first place. Who the fuck reads the last chapter of a mystery novel, and then sit down and read from the beginning. I don't know about you but I really don't like spoilers. Although this allegory doesn't really work, because the real situation is that the last page has not been written... so it can't be read.

For me it is enough "to be on the path"... and leave it at that.

Don’t let the delusion of reality confuse you regarding the reality of the illusion.