Saturday, June 22, 2013

[gita-talk] Re: Suggestions for Gita Talk group - Moving Forward

Shree Hari Ram Ram

Recently a highly spiritual, very young sadhak said the following to us.

"I am not very interested in providing answers to any sadhak's questions. On one hand we ourselves do not properly understand the point completely and secondly, the person who we are telling, his attention is not on attempting to understand, but more on cutting the opposite party. This is what is happening nowadays. If that same individual finds the same thing by himself, while reading in a particular book, he honors it and gives it due consideration. However he will not give due consideration to it, in the form of a question and answer session. This is my personal experience. It is the same in my case, where I value and respect what I read in books."

We may want to look at how to proceed with this group and where we can add value, as it appears that many questioners are not quite satisfied with the responses provided.

We welcome suggestions.......

Gita Talk Moderators, Ram Ram

--------------------------------------------------------

Hari Om

This Divine Forum is 9 year old. Though times are changing very fast , this Forum has stood firm in its object, format and affiliation. It should continue to remain so. Divine members of this Forum should expect huge onslaught on this Forum because the teachings of Swamiji are direct, revolutionary and categorically oppose certain evil practices. If Divine Sadhaks care to see the past trend of questions....it will be revealed that highest questions were on the topics of:

1. Guru

2 Problems with reference to householder, marital life, service to others.

The views of Swamiji Ramsukhdasji Maharaj on the above are categorical, clear, unambiguous, relevant and practical....and PERFECT, leaving no scope for their denial or ignorance. That is a huge obstacle to organised and disorganised shop keepers.

Of late, some members have started talking about America vs India....unnecessarily. Some are categorical in their conclusion that : Hindu religion/ Sanatan Dharma has failed. Some say : I am good others are not. Some say : This Forum propagates discrimination of caste, gender !!! ha.....!!! Actually, world today is inhabited by self proclaimed Gurus. When this Forum says : No Guru is necessary, your Vivek or God only is your Guru....it appears simple, but it is direct attack on SHOP KEEPERS , on people who have opened shops for God Realisation....Particularly in Americas. Today the Gurus are there in every street and corner of the planet. Mainly, in times to come, the Qs will come on this topic. The ever increasing membership of this Forum and the perfect solutions emerging from messages of Param Shraddheya Swamiji appear to these establishments of Gurus to be big obstacle in their business. These establishments also propagate BHOGAS , addictions and give false hopes to so called disciples for a fees. Similarly, caste system laws are also being seen with criticism....!!! People do not accept that BHOGAS can be renounced. It is not possible for them to even take a step beyond BHOGA and SANGRAH ! There is no respect to inner eye...everything is outer eye. Our religion is stated to be orthodox and impractical. The fundamentals of our religion are opposed with petty arguments. What is interesting to note is that criticism to our religion is coming mainly from Non Resident Indians only....understandable !!!!So that is how it is.

Let us get united...let us be correct, let us impart truth to the world. Let the format remain as it is. Let us be prepared for more solid attacks. As the membership increases, as the problems to humanity increase, so the need for this Forum increases. As rightly said by Jayantilalji Shah...there is nothing which is beyond the purview of Holy Gita. This is Gita Talk Forum. Let us continue to be so....!!!! Let us be ready for any Question.....!!!!

Jai Shree Krishna

Vyas N B

-------------------------------------------------------

Jai Sri Krishna ! I am Agree with Honourable Personality NB Vyas and Humbly Sadhak-We should only concentrate on the Opinion of Sethji-Bhaiji-Swamiji and Geeta Press only-I too found hard to get answer of my question from this forum and suggest to be more Convinient For Questioner.But I got My answers anyhow and questions are least to ask.I am very Grateful to all of you. Basudev

--------------------------------------------------------- Humble submission : Gita is claimed to be the only scripture that covers all aspects of human life, hence there shouldn't be any restrictions on what Questions may be asked here in this forum. Restricting the domain of Questions to mukti, moksha, realization, austerity, spirituality etc. will imply that Gita is not now covering all aspects of human life. Humbly, Saadhaka Please forgive for poor English. ----------------------------------------------------------

As per Shree Vyasjee : This forum is Satsanga Forum. Request is made to Gita-talk Owners to rename Gita-talk as Gita-Satsanga because it is satsanga and not now talk any more.. Humbly, Saadhaka

---------------------------------------------------------- Whereas the sentiment expressed by the Sadhak is very understandable, since the whole purpose of this forum is honest expression of unresolved conflicts in our mind when the people with more, better or different onsite in that area express their views. Then Karmanye Vadhikaraste Ma Phaleshu OR as He wishes We imbibe. I sincerely wish that the Young Highly spiritual Sadhak would continue to provide because who knows in such forum who benefits and how much. Hemendra

-------------------------------------------------

Om Namo Narayana

I have been reading the posts in this group for the last eight years and have gained immensely. It not only clears doubts but also forces one to rethink some of the preconceived notions/interpretations, etc. If we are truly seeking self-realisation, how does it matter what is the source of the awakening or inspiration? For beginners like me, reading, understanding and analysing the scriptures on one's own seems daunting at timesthis forum addresses the myriad questions that come to the mind. Truth needs no justification or support, it exists regardless of allit is for the seeker to exercise his/her free will and choose accordingly. The present format holds up the truth and nothing but the truth...so my vote is for the format to continue as is...

Sadhak Sharmila

----------------------------------------------------

Here is another suggestion --

Post the question Wait for 1 week for members to respond Post the responses Wait for another week for members to respond. Post the responses.

Wait for another week. Close the topic if there is no response from questioner. Close the topic if questioner is satisfied. Continue the topic if questioner needs further clarification. Got to step 1 if questioner responds.

What if question results in more questions from the reader? If reader's response require further clarification or if there are further questions on reader's responses, then another thread should be opened. The thread from the questioner should be closed in 2 weeks if questioner does not respond or questioner is satisfied.

What if other sadhaks have same question and even though questioner is not responding, other sadhaks doubts are not resolved. My suggestion is that the question should be posted with new sadhak's name and then, it will be his responsibility to respond and tell if his doubts are resolved.

If you like my suggestion, then I have few more ideas. Don't want to waste my time if this won't be implemented.

Regards, Murari Das

-------------------------------------------------------

Hari Om

This forum is Satsanga Forum. It has no other agenda or motive except Satsanga. It is not some social reform outfit, it is not some charity outfit, it is not some political forum....it is pure, unadulterated, only SATSANGA FORUM. Here Satsanga also has its own class which emerges effortlessly out of teachings of Param Shraddheya Swamiji Shri Ramsukhdasji Maharaj....one of the Greatest Saints of Sanatan Dharma. It is that class, it is that selfless motive which makes this Satsanga Forum to be truly a unique Satsanga Forum. Swamiji once said: As Kaliyuga spreads its wings, people with Demonaic properties will inhabit the earth in abundance, and that day is not far when there will be no Holy Ganges on the planet, all teerthas except Kashi and Vrindavan will return to their abodes, the publications by Gita Press Gorakhpur will cease...etc. Now this is scene of time. In this backdrop, I do not see any any reason to make any changes in the existing format of this Divine Forum.

Sure...there will be attacks on this Forum too. People will try to first indirectly and then directly attack teachings of Swamiji and Holy Gita also. I therefore do not get shocked when I see the recent phenomena on this Forum. Here what is being talked? It is impossible to renounce BHOGAS. Did Swamiji ever say so ? I am also finding that some people say ...Swamiji said so ..while actually Swamiji did not say so. Now these type of things should be expected to increase on this Forum. We have to suitably reply them and impart truths. As we all know and discussed too..we should not worry as to whether the other person is satisfied with our reply or not...we should continue to impart truth. That is our duty...that is our goal. Let us therefore keep deliberating, keep speaking Sat and never worry. Let me reassure all members of this Divine Forum: IT IS IMPOSSIBLE TO FIND A FAULT WITH MESSAGES OF SWAMIJI SHRI RAMSUKHDASJI MAHARAJ...IMPOSSIBLE ! HE IS PERFECT ....AS PERFECT AS GOD HIMSELF.

Hence keep going Divine Sadhaks...We are in Satsanga ....LET TRUTH PREVAIL. Keep the format AS IT IS. Let any number of Qs follow. Keep SAT in focus. Never write anything in the name of Swamiji unless you are sure about the same. We may give our views freely, but to say that Swamiji confirms your views, if that is incorrect then it is sin. Let us have that discipline and move ahead...fearlessly !!!

The text, whether from a book or from Geeta Q&A, is important. The questioner should read the texts from the replyers carefully. Most of the replies are in the form of advices. It is very easy to advise others, but difficult to bring those advices into practice.

So, I feel, let us continue as we are doing now. Only thing is that we must be cautious in asking questions and giving answers.

Gee Waman

-------------------------------------------------------

Questions should be restricted to concepts dealt with in Geeta. Questioner should clearly state that while reading this holy text, I am unable to understand meaning or how to implement study of Geeta in life with Spiritual and Material advantage; or else I am faced with this problem and seeking advice from participants how to solve this or face this in accordance with teachings of Geeta. Any question outside the text although may be important in some other context, should be discouraged. As Gandhiji and Vinobaji have summarised by exhaustively studying the book and making sincere efforts to live up to it, and have categorically stated that there is no question in life either political, social , health problem or spiritual development whose solution is not found in Bhagwad Geeta. I confirm this statement independently by my experience of last 75 yrs. I was brought up in Saurashtra then Kathiawar ruled by number of native princes. Maharaja Bhagwatsinhji of Gondal under whose jurisdiction my town Dhoraji came, was deeply immersed in teachings of Bhagwad Geeta. As our school which was affiliated to then Mumbai University did not have place for Geeta in curriculum till Matriculation, he introduced Bhagwad Geeta as an optional subject from Std.6 onwards. To encourage students to learn Geeta, he even instituted a scheme of scholarships to those who opted for this subject. I write this to state that he was greatly influenced by Gandhiji work in many fields like political, social and spiritual and emphatic statement of Gandhiji that Geeta provided solutions to questions in all fields of life. Hence in this Satsang Group, questions should be restricted to Bhagwad Geeta only or any question asked by Sadhaks should be replied by citing authentic verse from Bhagwad Geeta. Also wherever possible, questioner should contact the answerer to develop further. Jayantilal Shah

---------------------------------------------------------

Jai Hanuman

There is nothing wrong in the existing format of this Forum. I have no doubt that with extensive teachings of Swamiji Ramsukhdasji Maharaj, Holy Gita, Scriptures of Sanatan Dharma and of Saints and Sages of our Eternal Religion ( Tulsidasji Maharaj, Mira Bai, Valmiki, Naarad, Jaidayalji Goendka, Sharananandji Maharaj , Bhaiji Hanumanprasadji Poddar etc) ....there is no question which can not be answered on this Forum. It is a service of very high order and of course this Forum is SATSANGA Forum. Hence fearlessly , we must continue AS IT IS.

The present phenomena caused by Sanjeev, Murari Das and GB is too novice an attack on this Forum. Here more prominent has been few facts only- like how is one's mother, daughter or family ; how one enjoys both east and west; where does obe lice, few quotes from Bhagwatam and few blanket remarks..,. That is it !. The aggression in Sanjeev proved to be short living. It was to be so but the intention is very clear. Here this man claimed before 30000+ learned members of this Divine Forum : I HAVE RETURNED TO EARTH AFTER 8000 YEARS TO DISPEL IGNORANCE.....!!! Divine Sadhaks...in times to come...you shall have more more such claims, more such attacks, more such self proclaiming people.

Hence, Divine Sadhaks should be very vigilant and ready for more onslaughts on this Forum, not because this Forum has done something wrong...but because we have more negative humans today who relish anti-God talks and bhoga. The association with 'material world' is also aiding to the same. The GARMI ( ahankaar) of living say in America or abroad is getting exhibited in a dirty manner yet...but as this Forum does not believe in Guru cult which is spoiling the very basis of spirituality today...you should expect more such attacks. Divine Sadhaks must understand that livelihood of many Gurus gets on stake, when such Forum , with ever increasing membership, silently imparts the truth.

Good...that for time being there is peace again !!! But , surely, more organised attacks can be expected...!!! This one was too weak, insignificant and short lived. At least when one opposes, some face savibg substance should be there, there was none this time.

Namaste Jee

Jee Jee Shashikala

-----------------------------------------------------

Dear Sadaks, Questions to be related to values of spiritualism. Like if one asks- what will I get if I realize? Do not answer or post the question. Reason selfishness. Whatever cost I want to realize- How? Post the question. My son does on believe in idol worship? Do not post the question as it is the responsibility of father to first have knowledge and then ask us. We cannot peel the plantain for that father. Sant Ramanujar wanted to know the concept of "Om Namo Narayanaya". He served his Guru for years, then Guru taught him. The guru wanted to see the depth of faith and then teach his disciple. Swamy Chinmayanadha went to Swamy Sivanandha asked his to upadesh on self realization. He was asked to come after two years. Chinmayanandha went exactly after 2 years. The swamy said to him to meet his Guru Tapovan Maharaj at tapovan. He traveled by foot those days 7 days. Tapovan Maharaj said to get letter from Swamy Sivanandha. Back 7 days and back 7 days to tapovan. Chinmayanandha was enlightened. Only for Moderator I reply these and above. Dharmaraj was asked by his Guru to travel 2 days and get bad people. Duryodhan was told to travel 2 days to get good people. Dharmaraj came back and said Nobody is bad. Duryodhan back and said NO ONE is good. Swamy Tejomayanantha said:- Arjuna declined to fight because he discrimination of his own people. Arjuna faught Gandharas without slightest discrimination and NO question asked. Sri Krishna NO discrimination. Raaga and Duveasha are 2 big walls crushing us. Seeing Bagavan Shiva amides two horns of bull in front Bagavan Shiva in temple is a ritual. But we dont know we can see Bagavan Shiva only when Raaga and Duvesha left. Many woman does NOT know husband is alternate roop of Bagavan. They need not do pooja. It is from Sri Dharam script. Those days chaste woman could make sun stop. I know a woman so chaste today that if she says rain and rain comes. Another aspect our people fail to realize. See Sai Baba, Ramana, Chirst, Pakad Baba, hati ram baba, samartha ramados pictures. They are not well dressed- do not wear gold ornaments, looks like begger etc. But see today swami with glossing cloths, hitec car, etc and people fall behind them. We cannot find fault as that is Kaliyug. Kalipursh (Demi God) put question to Dharmaraj. An elephant went through eye of needle but tail was caught. Dharmaraj then only knew it is Kalipurush and Kaliyug starting and they have to leave. The elephant is big big crimes today will pass through easily, but small and poor will be caught and jailed. May be I am boring; Namaste. B.Sathya

------------------------------------------------------

Moving individually on spiritual path is not that easy as walking in a park. When one finds it difficult to take the group (masses) on walking in a park as per own norms, what ease is there on spiritual path for it? Humble suggestion is, pick up all good found in satsang for own good use instead of trying to lead the group in any direction [Someone read on entrance of a satsang hall - krupayaa jnaanakee baaten yahaan na karen, yahaan aanewaale sabhee ekase badhakar ek jnaanee hain]. Better it would be to move with the group and not to try to move the group with yourself, letting go all that is not agreeable to your own norms. Humbly, Saadhaka

-------------------------------------------------------

>> On one hand we ourselves do not properly understand the point completely and >> secondly, the person who we are telling, his attention is not on attempting to >> understand, but more on cutting the opposite party.

Is the person who wrote the comment trying to force his views on the questioner or other readers? Does this person understand the point himself? Is this person respectful to questioner's views?

I can take my example. I agree with most views expressed in sadhak messages. But I cannot agree with exploitation of weak people based on race, caste, gender, sexual orientation or any other outwardly attribute. One example is caste system practiced by Hindus. I don't agree with the position of women in Hindu society. Some followers also try to deny happiness and become depressed in name of sense control. I believe that spirituality and dharma is supposed to increase happiness of the self, family and the whole society. One should not use dharma to propagate suffering, unhappiness and cruelty.

If someone propagates above views and forces upon others, then I cannot agree with that person. It becomes serious if some commentator (like Vyas) who appears to be quite knowledgeable of Gita propagates these kinds of views. Such person cannot force us or any other sadhak to accept something which is against their conscience.

Sri Sankracarya writes in Bhaj Govindam:

The same God dwells in absolutely everyone, where is the reason for any disagreement. Bar none. See the identical soul in everyone. Come off your conditioning.

Lets see the identical soul in everyone and respect other views. Lets respect those who don't understand Gita and trying to do it. We don't have to understand all the topics perfectly. We have this birth and many other births. So, lets look at eternity of the self and not get frustrated and not be judgmental towards others.

Regards, Murari Das

--------------------------------------------------

Hari Om

So long as the Questioner is willing to attend and respond , let us tell him about the truth. The moment he does KUTARKA ( bad arguments) , I will tell him this is KUTARKA, and stop responding. His last message Kutarkas are ignored. (see details in thread - Main Obstacle to God Realization is Attraction to Sense Pleasures). Answers to your further Qs will be given only upon receipt of response by you to the above.

Jai Shree Krishna

Vyas N B

--------------------------------------------------------

Hari Om

Your very highly spiritual and very young Sadhak is right. No one on this earth, including God Himself can make another person understand/accept something, if that another person is not willing to understand or accept. Saints, Scriptures, Teachers, Satsangis can tell you truth, but to accept the same or not IS THE SOLE RESPONSIBILITY AND WILL of the individual. Revered Swamiji once stated the characteristics of a fool...He said: A fool has two traits- 1 He himself does not know / understand ( KHUD JAANATA NAHIN) 2 He does not heed to the others ( DOOSARE KI MAANATA NAHIN ) !!! One who has these two qualities is called FOOL. Some listener asked then to Him: Swamiji...persons with above two qualities are in abundance, in every home...now how to make them understand the truth..because even if God Himself comes and tells him the truth, a fool will not understand because he does not heed others, and God is other. Great Saint smiled and replied: MOORKHANAAM AUSHADHAM DANDAM ( only medicine to cure a fool is punishment ). Hence it is Mother Nature only which produces a punishment for a fool and that only can cure the person with above characteristics. There are many verses in Holy Gita also which define persons of the above two typical traits. BG 16:8 / 9 and 18:32 readily come to memory.

I request Moderators to continue with this thread till the Questioner is fully satisfied. I request the Questioner to freely deliberate on the subject and give reasons for non acceptance. Whatever you have stated so far, We shall try to answer. Problem is singular: No one can make other accept a thing. We can deliberate, argue, but acceptance is sole prerogative of SOUL. Do you know Dear Questioner that SELF can only accept or reject and can do nothing else? Are you aware about this...? Know now this fact through this Divine Satsanga Forum...!!!! Nothing in this world, no body can make other accept or reject. You YOURSELF only can accept or reject. Still we shall try to give reasons to you so that realisation may dawn upon you, God willing.

1 SHRUTIS say : EKAKI NA RAMATE ( God did not relish being alone). Hence out of Himself only He created this Universe for PREM . All Jeevas are direct fragment of God. Your Q is what is the cause of Creation of this world. Answer is : PREM ( Love). He created the world for PREM.

2 How can you say that by God Realisation you do not get enriched? Have you realised God? No...! Then where is basis for your statement? Experiences arise out of acceptance effortlessly...It is a law. Acceptance is the only cause for your experiences. argue on this law...if you can !!! A thing which arises effortlessly can not be your goal. Your goal has to be acceptance of TRUTH. Can there be any better experience than the experience of PREM? Tell me...! This PREM effortlessly arises in you, when you accept the truth: I AM GOD's , ONLY GOD IS MINE, NOTHING ELSE IS MINE. Try it...not only you but everything around you shall get effortlessly enriched. Or tell me any other way by which so called humanity or civilisation can get enriched. Now answer...!

MIRAGE....what a beautiful word you chose. But there is one error not in the selection of word by you but in its application. Mirage is not God but the world...!!! HA...!!! You prove how God is MIRAGE or shall I prove how this world is a mirage ? You choose who should initiate the deliberations. Ideally you should set the ball rolling. Now answer....!

3 Those who do not have anger, those who love others, those who get pained by sorrows of other....if according to you those people are disastrous for society...then tell me What kind of people are not disastrous for society? Now answer....!!!

4 Renunciation is not a loosing battle if your acceptance is real. Your acceptance of false is real. Is not a dream real when you are dreaming? Is not experience of a snake in a rope real when you have accepted the rope to be a snake? Is not your acceptance of world real ? If that is real then how rejection is unreal ? Now answer....!!!!

5 It is a law ( Come on Dear Questioner..!!! .) - You can not enjoy a thing , if you are aware that the same is KHSANABHANGUR ( perishable/ momentary). It is a law....Man !!! Now you prove how can you enjoy a thing unless you presume that to be permanent. Else I shall tell you how the aforesaid law is LAW !!! It is not the biggest folly of Indian philosophy....but if you have accepted that to be so, it may be a biggest foolish acceptance from your end...!!! Now answer....!!!

6 Are you dead or alive ? Now answer...!!!

7. Elucidate. So far your statement is incomprehensible. Who is Sherlock Holmes? What does he do ?

8. Who is giving lectures to whom? We are answering your Qs. You invited us to enrich you. We are doing so. Of course, both acceptance and renunciation are effortless. They are KARAN NIRAPEKSHA. What efforts you made to renounce childhood and adopt youth or renounce youth and adopt old age? What efforts do you make live or die? What efforts did you make to accept the world as me or mine? What efforts do you make to get connected or disconnected with body?

Entire para about knowledge is childish and irrelevant. It proves nothing. Did Einstein say God does not exist? Why do you consider Einstein to be yardstick ? What is the topic under deliberation? Can a child understand value and taste of mango if it does not give up eating clay? How can perishable satisfy imperishable?

Let us see how the Learned Questioner is falling within definition of Gita 18:32 !!! There is nothing wrong in permanent element getting satisfaction only by permanent. It is COMMON SENSE ! But Questioner says: I challenge the assumption that "for pleasure to be pleasure it has to be permanent"..,.this is REVERSE INTELLECT. Questioner's insistence on VERIFICATION OF ASSUMPTIONS .,,,!!! Ha..Questioner is advised to verify his own assumptions first...once he does that...whole mirage will disappear. Worldly pleasures are not MAYA, your acceptance of them to be real or permanent us maya. Renunciation of false acceptance is not maya, your acceptance of false to be real is Maya. Read.,.O Questioner... Ponder over.,.THINK ...!!!!

O Dear Questioner ! You are calling God as mirage and world to be real !!! Totally reverse is the truth. Know now: The world is brought into existence due to spiritual ignorance/stupidity. There is not even a little Reality there. Satsanga discusses thus. The non discriminating quarrel about it. This world is an event of a dream. What have you found in this world which is not transitory? Life is as transient as the drop of water dangling at the sharp corner of a blade of grass..,do you know? It is possible to encompass the air, break the sky or string together the waves BUT not stay forever in life !!! You are talking about sensual pleasures ? Oh....!!! In the string-tossed bodily cage of the puppet doll of flesh, endowed with muscles, bones and joints, of a woman or a man, WHAT GOOD IS POSSIBLY THERE? Tell me.,,.! See if it is pleasing after separating the skin, flesh, blood, tears, eyes etc??? Why are you deluded in vain ??? Insufficient is childhood, it is forcefully devoured by youth. The latter is eaten away by old age. See this mutual cruelty. In old age, heart burns indeed due to his poor capacity to enjoy !!! The cat that is old age, eats the rat that is youth and you say I wanna enjoy this ? Incapacity, calamities, thirst, dumbness, perplexed intellect, covetousness, restlessness and dejection - all these exist in childhood. Appearance of youth is bright only for a moment, which is temporary like the trembling and deep thunder of the clouds and the lustre of lightening and of course , Inauspicious. It is pleasing only at the current moment ! Not aware...??? Of what avail is wealth , of what use is kingdom and what avail are body and things sought for? O Dear..even within a certain number of days, time destroys everything. The God of Death, of cruel behaviour , reducing to infirmity the body , swallows the mass of living beings continually, JUST AS: A serpent swallows the air !!!

And you compare these bondage creating flashes of non existent pleasures ( actually only pains exist there all along..pure unadulterated pains and nothing else except pains. It is stupidity that makes us see pleasures there ) with BLISS associated in God realisation !!! How funny !!! Aaaah ...!!!

Jai Shree Krishna

Vyas N B

-------------------------------------------------------

Dear Sadhnak, Information becomes knowledge when we get right experience, no mater the information comes from reading a book by self or by means of que-ans or by just listening the truth. If the person is discussing, or cutting others point , it is good, it shows that the person is really interested in getting the point or at least he/she has some information which while discussing/arguing becomes clear in his/her own head. Some day with right experience it will become part of his/her own being, and he/she will taste the Truth .Open discussion forum such as Gita gr provides a platform for all seekers to discuss in depth solutions provided in scriptures for all real life problems, o if we are willing, we can be benefited, if we are not willing, no one can help. Love, respect and blessings, Sadhna

----------------------------------------------------------

Hari: Om, It is natural to have doubts in a serious seeker. Therefore, a spiritual master should not disappoint such people by discouraging questions. No doubt, there are people who pose questions not for their understanding but to measure the knowledge of the master or to impress others with their knowledge. A spiritual master can understand from the nature of the question, the intention of the questioner and accordingly respond to his queries. From satsangs we get spiritual knowledge in bits and pieces and, therefore, question answer session should be an integral part after Satsang. Anyone one with intellectual mastery over philosophy (there are many Deepak Chopras like men and women in the market) can preach values but to satisfy a real seeker and to clear his/her genuine doubts, question/answer should not be discouraged, otherwise it could be misconstrued to mean that the master is a mere "His Master's Voice" and disinterested in the real spiritual progress of his followers. Coming to the subject that "main obstacle to God realization is attraction to sense pleasures" is correct. Study of Vedanta helps the seeker's over indulgence in sense pleasures. In fact as Swami Chinmayanandaji has stated "Vedanta does not teach us to keep away from anything, but to keep in tune with everything". Ignorance of one's Self, role of objects, misunderstanding that the pleasure lies in the object etc. etc. are the reasons for our failure to face life intelligently and fall pray to captivation of senses. Hinduism is a way of living and one who follows it with proper understanding can avoid a lot of fall, disappointments and displeasures in life. Mohanair

----------------------------------------------------

Jai Hanuman

No one can make another understand anything or any truth unless another is willing to understand. The independence of human birth lies there in ACCEPTANCE. This entire creation is output of acceptance only. It is due to our faulty acceptance of world as real, that we suffer the cycle of birth and death; it is our acceptance that is sole reason for our sorrows. This acceptance of unreal as real takes place from SELF and it is SELF only who is capable of RENOUNCING this acceptance of false. The learned questioner here has accepted the false to be so real that the real is appearing as false....and that precisely and squarely falls within purview of Holy Gira verse 18:32 ! Actually, the sole cause of this acceptance of world ( Gita 7:4/5) is AGYAAN/ STUPIDITY. When you get hugely entangled in the MIRAGE of this creation, 18:32 of Gita, is natural outcome.

When for the first time we grasped this principle body/world being different than SELF...it was unbelievable. But one progresses, starts discriminating, sees the momentaryness of the creation equanimously, you acquire capability of renouncing false acceptance. Learned Questioner can only be given reasons, logic, rationale but to accept or not accept is sole willingness of the Questioner.

What if the Questioner accepts the truths and renounces the false? He will get liberated. What if he does not? He shall continue to remain bondaged !!! Satsanga can only impart truths...NO ONE CAN MAKE ANOTHER UNDERSTAND...NO ONE, INCLUDING GOD !

God can, but why He should? God never interferes in the INDEPENDENCE of Jeeva. But Mother Nature does that. More you accept false, more sorrowful you get. The laws of Mother Nature are such that disconnection starts from the very moment of connection. Mother Nature keeps giving you signals regarding perishability, KSHANBHANGURATA of the world but our solid acceptance of world as real does not let us appreciate the TRUTH.

This solid acceptance is output of stupidity and nothing else..,because there are SHRUTI ( History/ Scriptures), YUKTI ( Logic/rationale) and ANUBHUTI ( direct experiences of perishable, momentary world) to guide us....but ALAS..,BG 18:32 !!!! Only Nature can cure stupidity and no one else.