Friday, February 3, 2012

As our frequent readers know, one of the recurring topics on our site as we report on public figures -- the Roloff family, is that of the Solid Rock Church and the lead pastor John Mark Comer. That is the church in Portland that all of the Roloffs have attended, but Jeremy is especially enthusiastic about the church and the lead pastor John Mark Comer. Jeremy's girlfriend, Audrey, also lists John Mark Comer as one of her idols and inspirations.

Solid Rock is a very conservative church (something that John Mark Comer has said in his sermons by referring to other churches in Portland that are "a lot more liberal than we are") that has been the cause of passionate debates on our site due to Solid Rock's and John Mark Comer's stance about a woman's role in society and in marriage and the sermons taught about gay people - John Mark Comer has described gay people as perverted, broken and that they need to pray to Jesus to be cured of their "gayness". As it relates to the Roloffs, this issue is a hot button topic for Roloff followers and LPBW fans due to the Roloffs role as Diversity advocates.

Matt and particularly Amy, have gotten paid by diversity groups to spread the message of equality and how members of minority groups should accept their own differences and to accept the differences of others. That message was also used by TLC to promote LPBW over the years. Many believe that by supporting Solid Rock the Roloffs are hypocrites since they have collected money for being portrayed as Diversity advocates when privately, they support agendas that work against what they've been paid to speak about.

It ignites fiery debates about what the Roloffs themselves believe. Matt and Amy Roloff do not give direct answers about the issue and Jeremy does not speak for himself.

I think it's fair to say that most people feel Jeremy echos John Mark's sentiments through his enthusiastic support and the fact that the majority of Jeremy's friends are rather upfront that they share John Mark Comer's sentiments on gay people needing to pray to be cured. Although, I don't think there will be a definitive conclusion on that subject until which time Jeremy takes a stand and decides to speak for himself. Some Roloff family friends such as former "Little People, Big World" producer and close Roloff friend Chris Cardamone, tell people to ask Jeremy himself for his own opinion, but that's kind of a useless suggestion since Jeremy does not speak to "fans" (for the most part) and certainly does not speak to people about a subject like that.

For the record, close friends of Jeremy state that he does echo John Mark Comer's sentiments, but they take issue with Jeremy being described as a "bigot" or "hateful" towards gay people. They say Jeremy doesn't object to being in the presence of gay people and will speak to gay people, but he does not "approve" of gay people for the Biblical reasons that John Mark has discussed about. Jeremy's friends take issue with Jeremy being called a hypocrite for being "pro-dwarf" but "anti-gay". They don't think it's the same thing because in their opinion Jeremy's family members were born with dwarfism and they don't think gay people were born that way. So they object to the word hypocrite being used to describe Jeremy and the Roloffs as a whole.

However, other posters to our site have pointed out that John Mark Comer has also spoken how drunkards -- people that go out on a Friday night to get a "buzz" are sinners and will not enter the Kingdom of God unless they seek Jesus' forgiveness. One of Jeremy's favorite sayings is "A church is not a museum for saints, it is a hospital for sinners". Our guest reviewer and frequent commentator Rap541 has described that as the "Whoopsie! Sorry Jesus" syndrome (meaning that Jesus followers don't need to have any accountabilty for their actions - they just say "Whoopsie! Sorry Jesus" and then "sin" again tomorrow, followed by another "Whoopsie! Sorry Jesus"). But some have pointed out since it's widely known that Jeremy obviously does not follow John Mark's sentiments about drinking or getting drunk as being a sin, that people shouldn't assume that Jeremy also believes what John Mark Comer preaches about gay people needing to "pray the gay away".

So anyhow, John Mark Comer is often discussed on our site mainly due to Jeremy's enthusiasm for him (Molly has also went to Solid Rock events with Jeremy and his friends). In the name of fairness, because JMC is discussed, some of Jeremy's fellow Solid Rock church goers wanted to pass along news that John Mark Comer has authored a book about Anxiety and Depression and healing through Jesus that is now available for sale at Amazon.com. Friends have told us that Jeremy is very excited about the book and Jacob Mueller (Jeremy's best friend, of course) has already read and highly recommends the book.

Here is a description of John Mark Comer's book, entitled "My Name Is Hope"

"For years, John Mark Comer thought he was the only man on the planet who struggled with anxiety and depression. He was dead wrong.

Staggering numbers of modern Americans fight anxiety and depression on a daily basis. In 2010, there were 253 million prescriptions for antidepressants in the U.S. alone. That's in a nation of 311 million people. And the battle is nothing new. My Name is Hope is the story of one follower of Jesus who went through the horrors of anxiety and depression and came out the other side. It is his ruthlessly authentic and scripturally authoritative account of prophets and poets, mothers and fathers, and even a Messiah who all came up against anxiety and depression.

"With obvious relevance and prophetic resonance," My Name is Hope "speaks needed truth into the over-stressed, over-medicated reality of our lives and culture. It is a book that will awaken and guide many towards a return home to the hope that is ours in Jesus."

107 comments:

Timothy
said...

Although I strongly disagree with what John Mark Comer perpetuates about gay people (and gender roles) and I think it's very damaging and dangerous, I have listened to several of his podcasts and he does speak about some good things about how to behave in life.

Things that take character, things like work ethic, being a person of your word. General human behavior things.

But I think his overall reputation is demeaned when he has followers like Jeremy and his friends. I think all that Jeremy and his friends take from John Mark Comer's church is that they are special because they say they love Jesus and they are comforted by the "Sorry Jesus!" mentality that Rap has posted about.

If a large portion of a pastor's flock believe the same thing, that is a reflection on the Pastor himself.

I've listened to John Mark Comer talk about the importance of Christians to have friends with non-believers and that he and his wife try to have non believers for dinner every week. Then look at Jeremy and his friends. I think we all know that about 99% of Jeremy and his friends are Christians and privileged like he is.

I've seen some of Jeremy's friends on their blogs describe strangers that were friendly towards her as creepy losers because they were unattractive yet then she goes and posts 10 things in a row about how it's her goal in life to bring all people to Jesus! It's mind boggling.

I guess what I'm saying is that if I was a pastor, I wouldn't want to have Jeremy and his friends leading my fan club.

Timothy, I agree with most of what you're saying. What you have to understand is that Solid Rock is geared towards college aged youth. It's on the weekends and has become sort of a "cool club" to hang out and meet girls or guys. I think when something becomes "cool" like that it sort of demeans the message of Jesus.

I believe Jeremy and most of his friends would dismiss Jesus if Jesus disguised himself as someone that was socially awkward or physically unattractive or poor.

Who is to say for certainty that Jeremy does not follow what John Mark Comer said about getting drunk? Jeremy is 21 and allowed to have a beer. John Mark does NOT say having a beer is a sin. John Mark said he PERSONALLY does not drink at all, but he said it's not a sin. What he said was getting DRUNK is a sin. Like Chris Cardamone said, Jeremy getting drunk is all conjecture and rumor.

Just because RANDY on the Spiritswander blog said Jeremy doesn't follow the stuff about not getting drunk doesn't make it true! Randy doesn't know anything about Jeremy. Randy is dumb and ignorant.

I keep on thinking about Jeremy's reaction when that girl asked him if he ever gets depressed? Remember Jeremy's rant about there being two kinds of people in the world, positive and negative and she was a horrible person for trying to be negative by asking him if he ever got depressed? Then Jeremy accused her of being depressed, asked her and then told her not to answer because he didn't care?

I wonder if good ol' Jer would go off on John Mark Comer about their being two kinds of people?

That's what is wrong with Jeremy's brand of Christianity. They don't treat people the same. They totally act differently around different people.

In the same way that the KKK in my state used to openly preach hate against african americans (Mississippi)from the church pulpit on sunday morning "pastors" like John Mark Comer use their pulpits to spew hate fear and intolerance from their pulpits.

What's worse is the way he cloaks his hate speech in the blanket of religion as a way to justify it and give his evil words some level of "intellectual merit".

As a Christian, I think we need more people like John Mark Comer. He has a talent for reaching young people and pulling them towards Jesus and the Kingdom of God. We need that in the church. If Jeremy is drawn closer to Jesus because of John Mark Comer, then that's a good thing.

@Charlene, I think Jeremy chose to be the photographer because every time a picture of him surfaces, it's showing him to be an enormous jerk and hypocrite! Jeremy has so much to hide. I don't think that's what John Mark wanted for his church goers!

Members of John Mark's family hangs out with Jeremy when he is in Portland. People suggesting that John Mark isn't honored by Jeremy's support are spouting nonsense. Jeremy is a follower of Jesus. He's not perfect and never said he was. John Mark Comer does not teach that you have to be perfect to be a follower of Jesus.

Well Ashley, from what I decipher from Solid Rock's teaching, if Audrey subscribes to it, Audrey would keep her mouth shut about Jeremy frolicking on beds with girls. It's her role to support her man in all that he does and to ask her man for spiritual guidance!

Jer Bear's walk with Jesus leads him in his drunkeness to beds with girls! Audrey must support Jeremy in his walk with Jesus!

Molly was right with what she said on You Tube. No true Christian would judge others harshly like you all judge Jeremy and no one has the right to judge Jeremy's walk with God except for God. Since none of you are God you should all SHUT UP! Buy John Mark Comer's book and maybe you will have better understanding of Jesus. I pray for you.

If you look closely at the picture you can see that Jeremy's pants are undone (you can see the front fly is wide open). I think the girls hand is clearly inside the fly of his boxers (the blanket beside him hides it a little).

In my humble opinion, Jeremy is not a true follower of John Mark Comer. He likes the overall message that he will be saved by Jesus and will be welcomed into God's Kingdom when he dies because he professes to be living for Jesus.

Jeremy has an immature understanding of faith, but don't most 21 year old guys?

Pam, that redness is termed 'menstroid face' by some, and is also brought about by other activities.It seems strange that the phrase "Judge not, jest YOU be judged" has no effect on anyone who has posted thus far, from anti-Jeremys, to unfans, to pedestal-perching segregationist christians. To quote a famous poster on FB, "Keep the comedy coming!"

Katie K - I think we'd all like to see Jeremy Roloff do an interview where he proudly states that while he does drink, he never gets drunk because of his respect for the Lord.

Heck, we still haven't seen Matt's great big boy ever do an interview where the big boy didn't have his mommy or his daddy there to make sure he did ok. That's kinda sad now that Widdle Piddle Jer-Bear is 22 and his parents still don't think he's grown up enough to handle an interview.

Hey, I'd also like Jeremy to say publically that he loves Jesus and accepts Jesus as his Savior. But... there's standing up for Jesus and then there's money, and we all know what's more important to a Roloff!

@Rap. If Jeremy wasn't proud to be a Jesus follower, then none of you would know that he respects John Mark Comer or likes the "Church is a Hospital for sinners" saying.

No one can say for certain that Jeremy was drunk in any of those pictures. It's rumor and speculation.

@Podge. He's dancing on the dance floor. People sometimes get red in the face when they get hot. It looks to me like he might have the start of a sun burn in those pictures. He was in Anaheim California.

Samantha P. What about all the stuff in the bible about not forbidding tattoos, stoning to death adulterers, not wearing two different clothing fabrics, eating pork, oh yeah and women not speaking in church. The bible is outdated. You can't pick and choose, ok gays are an abomination but I'm allowed to eat meat and get a divorce.

Kyle, I'm not 100% positive, but I think women are not allowed to speak from the pulpit at Solid Rock. I read that on their Facebook page from one of their members. No one else disputed it.

It was a question from someone that moved out of state. They said they had found a church that was similar to Solid Rock but there was controversy because they didn't allow women to speak from the pulpit. The Solid Rock fans were saying that Solid Rock has the same beliefs and it's the same at SR.

Actually Katie, you're incorrect - the only reason Jeremy's participation in this church is known is because of other people seeing Jeremy there and discussing it. Jeremy himself has never *publically* stated he likes the teachings of John Mark Comer. Sure, I think with his buddies, where no one say anything other than way to go, that he mentions it but hmmm the lad never seems to stand up for Jesus when the cameras are on and say "I attend John Mark Comer's church".

Its nothing to be ashamed of, right? Yet standing up for the Lord is just not happening on camera. I recall the Christians here CROWING in delight over Jeremy putting "Thank you Jesus!" on the front of his van yet... that was cut from the show. Hmmm. And for a boy who gives glory to God for his accomplishments... why are there no public statements of Jeremy saying "This is all due to Jesus?"

Katie K - am I really asking for something so astounding? If you expect me to *believe* that Jeremy stands up for the Lord - to the point that no one is to question his walk with Jesus - why is it so unreasonable to expect Jeremy to say publically he loves Jesus and considers the Bible the ultimate authority?

It doesn't seem to be hurting Tim Tebow, after all.

As for Jeremy drinking, I just have a question - if he's not getting drunk, then why would he refer to church being a hospital for sinners? I mean, you're insisting he's not sinning, correct?

Is he drunk? I understand your arguement Katie - he could be puking on himself while holding a bottle of Jack Daniels and you'll insist that's not proof. Its only a big deal because of people like you insisting a 21 year old can drink but always holds his faith in Jesus first and therefore never gets drunk ever, despite his comments about church being the hospital for sinners. Is he perfect? If the answer is no, then why is all criticism a lie?

Btw while yes he was in Anaheim, I saw no indication of sunburn on the aired episodes.

@Rap. You're wrong. Jeremy liked John Mark Comer's videos on You Tube. Even on his Facebook, he likes Solid Rock. You don't have to be a friend to see it, at least you didn't. That part was visible. When Jeremy had a fan page on Facebook, he said he attended church service. Someone asked him if it was Solid Rock. Jeremy answered yes.

Jeremy has no control over what parts of his vehicle that TLC shows or don't show.

Jeremy says it's a hospital for sinners because it is. He sins because he's human. There are a lot of ways to sin. You can't claim to know that he gets drunk.

You think because he quoted "Church is a hospital for sinners" that he's getting drunk? What else do you think he's doing? Drugs? Stealing? Murder? That's what you're saying, he said the church is for sinners therefore Jeremy is doing everything that's wrong? He's saying he's not perfect. That doesn't mean he's getting drunk. Even John Mark Comer doesn't say he is perfect.

1 Corinthians 14:34-35 (NIV) 34 Women should remain silent in the churches. They are not allowed to speak, but must be in submission, as the law says. 35 If they want to inquire about something, they should ask their own husbands at home; for it is disgraceful for a woman to speak in the church.

Kyle, John Mark Comer does speak about what you quotes. I listened to a podcast of his where he said exactly what you posted about a woman asking her husband. He said the man should study the Bible and the woman should ask her husband questions about spirituality.

Katie - his facebook is not open to the public. That's certainly his right but thats also not a public statement of faith. Liking a video is a public statement of faith to you? Really? I'm asking for Jeremy to make a public statement of faith and *liking someone's youtube video* is the equivalant of "I am Jeremy Roloff and Jesus is my savior"? That's faith these days?

And if you're blaming evil TLC for forcing Jeremy to be silent... lets all remember that the big boy was signing up for exactly that once he hit eighteen, Katie. That's right - Jeremy (and Zach but no one cares about Zach) could have said no. Instead he took the money, Katie. He took money to allow himself to be *edited* to appear to not stand for Jesus and to NOT give glory to God daily. If Jeremy had a *problem* with his depiction on TLC... he's not a slave and he was and is an adult with free will.

Now, Jeremy doesn't do interviews because, per you, he just doesn't. Under that theory* he could do an interview about his faith and chooses not to. Now Katie, that means Jeremy isn't speaking out on his faith. I concede the possiblity that Matt or TLC is restricting him... and Jeremy didn't turn down the 30 piecces of silver now did he?

And Kaite - if you concede the possibility that Jeremy isn't perfect, why is it so impossible that he could've gotten drunk? I mean really - he's even admitted it in his myspace comments from yesteryear.

I think he's quoting the church is a hospital for sinners line because it gets him off the hook, Katie. It's the classic "whoopsie Jesus" excuse - he knows per his faith, its wrong to get drunk, or lie in bed with unmarried women (thats in one of those photos) and well, "church is a hospital for sinners" so if he sins, all he has to do is say he's sorry. He doesn't have to try to not sin, he just has to apologize after. Its lazy faith. It's easy to be "strong in faith" when *nothing* is required. Heck, Jeremy doesn't even have to publically call himself a Christian and he can accept money for keeping silent on his faith and you're calling it awesome.

I fail to see why someone who is Christian would not want to make his faith known. It's not like he's calling himself a Jew in 1943 Berlin.

Shelby - honestly I imagine Jeremy wishes he was Tim Tebow. I may not especially care for Tim's views, but he's willing to stand up for them, unlike Jeremy. And Tim's actually successful at something he loves. Unlike Jeremy. And Tim got there through his own hard work and talent, while Jeremy's entire lifestyle is funded by his mommy and daddy, and they are famous for well, being born dwarfs.

Oh and Jeremy keeps his social networks private. Which is his right, but is not Jeremy making statements for public dissemmination.

Shannon, since I haven't offered an opinion on John Mark Comer's book, I am not sure why my reading it is relevant. The issue is Jeremy's willingness to say *publically* that he supports John Mark Comer's church - and so far we're getting a lot of "he does it all the time on social network sites that he sets to private so no one can see".

I might read John Mark's book, but honestly since I don't have problems with depression, it probably won't hit my reading list any time soon.

"Oh and Jeremy keeps his social networks private. Which is his right, but is not Jeremy making statements for public dissemmination."

Which is really ironic, Rap, that you would mention that when you posted about (and happily do whenever you get the chance to bring it up) Jeremy's MySpace comments from way back when in the very comment before you posted the one that includes this line.

Now why Rap? Why would you say that and STILL RELENTLESSLY bring up Jeremy's MySpace issue ALL THE TIME? C'mon Rap, hand on the Bible, let us here your *excuse*.

ROFLMAO about the John Mark followers who posted here! Wayyyyyy funny.

Non-tolerant, religious right leader who is admired by Diversity Speakers. No one gets that irony of that joke apparently.

Narrow minded people are always the ones to start splitting hairs about they devoutly belief THIS but that doesn't mean they really are bigoted, racists bastards.

Does Jeremy have a black friend? Does he have an openly gay friend? Does Matt? Does Amy? Does Zach?

Do any of them have close friends that are not Christians? Friendships speak volumes and these people surrond themselves with others who think exactly like them. Diversity Speakers? Boy, do they have the con worked for their suckers.

Where's Vic Rattlehead when you need him? Or that other poster who knew the Bible better then these weekend Bible Thumpers?

Because those comments were public and open for viewing until Jeremy found himself in the national enquierer. Tiffany.

See the difference? If Jeremy has his myspace wide open so that anyone who types in Jeremy James Roloff can see him call Mike Detjen his ni*ger, and refer to Mexico as "that beaner place" - then it was public.

But when a non friend goes to Jeremy's facebook these days, they can't see Jeremy's "I love Christ and I love Christianity" comments.

Oh and with respect Tiffany, calling me relentless in bringing up the Myspace comments?

Hun, *you're* the one who brought that into the conversation here. I was leaving it alone. For someone who apparently has a problem with Jeremy's public comments on Myspace being discussed, you do realize the only reason they're on the table, dredged up again, is because *you* dredged them up. :)

Hi Tiffany. I'm glad you stopped by. With your closeness to the Roloffs I believe you'll have some insight that will prove a benefit to us all.

It's my belief that the opinions Jeremy expressed were open and public before Matt muzzled him. I still maintain the Roloffs walk both sides of the fence for money. This is the reason why people try to cast doubt on, or keep private, the family members' true beliefs in order to avoid offending any one side of the diversity question, which pays the Roloffs quite well to speak to.

You brought up a very valid point in a previous item, that enigne "Have you ever thought that... oh no... (love your sarcasm) there are several hundred thousand people who don't read this blog and who genuinely don't know anything that has happened in the Roloffs lives since the series ended?" I honestly was too self-centered to realize this. I apologize for having such a narrow view. My question, Tiffany is this; how can I inform the several hundred thousand people about the true and accurate beliefs and lives of the Roloffs? If everyone knew the truth, then this blog would have no reason for its existence. There would be no reason to exaggerate the truth as you apparently see it, so reality as some describe it will be honest, and all would be free to walk the walk they speak of, regardless of which side of the fence the belief resides.Am I being over-simplistic or am asking too much?

"And Kaite -if you concede the possibility that Jeremy isn't perfect, why is it so impossible that he could've gotten drunk? I mean really -he's even admitted it in his myspace comments from yesteryear."There is your proof Rap that YOU, not me, brought it up in this discussion. :) Nice try.Anywho, those comments on MySpace were intended for his personal friends to read. It was a discussion between friends. By the way, weren't the only friends he had on there his close, personal family and friends? I think so.

Sure, his profile on MySpace may have been public as to where anybody could read his comments. This is probably because it was so early in the series and he most likely didn't realize people would be searching for him on there. No fault to Jeremy or the fans for doing that but that was probably why his MySpace profile was public to begin with.

“Judge not, that you be not judged. For with the judgment you pronounce you will be judged, and with the measure you use it will be measured to you. Why do you see the speck that is in your brother's eye, but do not notice the log that is in your own eye? Or how can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ when there is the log in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brother's eye."

To be fair. I reread my comments and realize I did reference Jeremy's public myspace comments about how he got drunk. Because Katie was insisting I couldn't know... apparently Katie is suggesting Jer was lying or something.

Hey Tiffany, my excuse? Is that Katie is saying I couldn't know that Jeremy is drunk. I think its fair to use Jeremy's own public comments on his drunkenness to prove my point that he's no stranger to getting drunk. I'm *sure* either you or Katie will find some way to put Jer up on that pedestal where he never drinks, and never lies, but also isn't perfect, but no criticism is ever valid and no one can ever truly hold a negative opinion of Jeremy without having known him since his birth...

Btw still waiting for *Jeremy* and not his friends and fans, to have the chops to publically stand up for Christ. As I have said before, its very easy to bask in the praise of being a good Christian when you're not required to even dare speak for yourself publically. He's such a brave boy (not a man, Jeremy's not ever a man) sitting silent for Jesus while his buddies tell us what he supposedly believes.

Tim Tebow got in really hot water with the NFL Commissioner and the management of the Denver Broncos over his endzone celebration and the post game interviews (they nearly forbid him form doing interviews).

The NFL has a strict policy about keeping religion and politics out of the game and Tim Tebow violated it to the point that they were going to suspend him for a couple of games and fine him a million dollars and ban him from doing interviews until they realized the media backlash (particularly from conservatives) would hurt the laegue.

To be fair Podge/Rodge, you aren't being too simplistic or asking too much.

I just personally don't understand why people are so hell bent on forcing other people to see the Roloffs in a different light. If someone sees them for what they are on the show, what's really so terrible about that? Allow people to have their own views and beliefs and draw their own conclusions without trying to make them change their stance. That's a change that needs to happen on its own.

"...the true and accurate beliefs and lives of the Roloffs."

That is then going beyond the Roloffs public life and right into their personal life. Being on a reality show, it is very hard for some people to draw the line between ones public life and ones private life. In the Roloffs case, their public life is what is featured on the television show Little People, Big World and the various outlets that Matt and Amy use to update fans, mainly their Facebook fanpages. Any other information not given by them is then getting into their personal life, and yes getting into/on their personal social networking accounts, whether public or not, IS getting into their personal life.Despite all of that, the Roloffs are entitled, no matter what people say, to have their own personal views and beliefs and act however they want to without being judged for it. Just as each of us are entitled to the exact same thing. Remember, we each have those certain unalienable rights, "life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness," and no one, no matter how angry it might make people, can take that away from us nor the Roloffs.

Tiff - you have to concede I realized I made an error and corrected myself. Also, neither the internet or reality tv was brand new from 2005 to 2009, the time frame for Jeremy's comments to be up and public.

Now I must admit I have always enjoyed the "blame the public for seeing the comments, Jeremy thought it was private!" arguement but you do understand that it's a ridiculous arguement? First, no matter how much you want to say it wasn't, it was a PUBLIC discussion.

If someone say, decided to subpoena Jeremy for his PUBLIC comments on MYSPACE, those comments that got him into the National Enquirer would be included. And also, Matt and Amy being as litigious as they are, never tried to sue the National Enquirer for violating Jeremy's privacy.Why? Because the comments were out and proud in public.

So back to square one, Jeremy will easily call someone a faggothole in a public setting but making a statement of faith about his love of Christ is something the big boy keeps private. Oh and lets his friends speak anonymously for him since well... I guess everyone associated with the Roloffs and Christ are afraid to use their real names for some reason. :)

Vic - Oddly, Tim's public stance on his public displays of affection for Jesus are something I respect him for. I don't believe in what he believes in, but I respect his willingness to stand up for his beliefs despite potential backlash.

Thats one of the big differences between Tim Tebow and Jeremy Roloff. Tim isn't afraid say he loves Jesus in public. Jeremy won't and Jeremy lets his friends anonymously defend him all while keeping silent himself.

The other difference is that Tim's actually successful and got that success thru actual work. When Tim was 21,almost 22, gosh, he was a college graduate getting ready to start a pro ball career and doing endorsements for Nike. Oh, and publically speaking about his faith to the point that the NCAA made the "Tebow" rule....

[[Allow people to have their own views and beliefs and draw their own conclusions without trying to make them change their stance]]

Tiffany, that's exactly why I like Spirits blog so much.

Spirits presents information about the Roloffs that people wouldn't know from watching the highly edited TV show that is produced from people who are personal friends with the Roloffs.

In all aspects of life, I want to be able to hear all of the information and then form my opinion. I don't want it to be censored from me because someone thinks it will be bad publicity.

When someone tries desperately to be a public figure, you do give up privacy. People will want to know about your life. Especially when you're a diversity speaker. I completely feel that the Roloffs feelings for the Solid Rock church are relevant because they drape themselves in a diversity banner. People paying the Roloffs to speak about differences and people listening to the Roloffs deserve to know whether they are hypocrites when they aren't up on stage or on the edited TV screen. At least they deserve to decide if you think they are being hypocrites.

I also don't have much sympathy for the Roloffs "privacy" because they had the chance to get out of the spotlight after the show was cancelled and didn't.

The Roloffs could have closed their fan Facebooks down, , stopped making You Tube Videos, stopped posting on public forums, stopped selling their Roloff merchandise and became complete private citizens.

But the Roloffs didn't do that. They've done everything they can to keep their public figure star rising.

Could someone, perhaps Tiffany, point out the people who are allowed to have opinions without anyone judging them?

Because frankly, I see my opinions judged pretty harshly on a daily basis - "How dare you judge Jeremy's walk with Jesus" comes to mind.

Tiffany - you do understand that you're insisting the Roloffs have more priveledge than the rest of us don't you? Our opinions can and will be judged, but if a Roloff has an opinion on something, no one is allowed to say *anything* as the Roloffs have the right to their opinions with NO disagreement or backlash. Matt says "X sucks!" and no one has the *right* to say "Matt Roloff is wrong".

Tiffany - why are the opinions of the Roloffs inviolate? Is it because they are Christians? Or because you're friends with them and therefore anything other than "Matt said it and if Matt says it, its NOT to be questioned".

Tiffany - do you believe Matt Roloff and ALL Roloffs are not to ever be questioned or disagreed with? Since apparently disagreeing wth them or questioning them is not allowing them their opinions?

"their public life is what is featured on the television show Little People, Big World"

Public life??When you show your kids in their beds sleeping and waking up in the morning, that's not public life.

When you show your son high on anesthetic after surgery in the hospital room, that's not public life.

When you discuss your feelings for your son's girlfriends with television cameras, that's not public life.

When you show your son failing his driving test, that's not your public life.

You are making your private life public.

What most people with an ounce of intelligence realize is the Roloffs are so fake and have so many skeletons in the closet that a lot of real things about them were concealed so they could continue the sham of a wholesome family friendly image.

I got an idea. How about people actually become authentic? That way they don't need to hide portions of their lives?

I am with Rap about Tim Tebow vs Jeremy comparison. As much as I disagree with Tebow, he's entitled to them. Tebow doesn't need to hide his love Jesus, support of Focus On The Family or any of that stuff because he's honest about what he believes.

The Roloffs and Jeremy hide what they are really all about.

From their religion to everything like Matt presenting Jeremy as being gentle and helpful towards cats, when really he and Mueller are chucking the cat in the air and mutilating birds.

Poor poor public figures that try to make money off a good guy friendly image when in reality, they are throwing cats and using slurs when they are being themselves.

Be authentic Jeremy! Present yourself as a top cat tosser and hunter of birds that thinks gay people are going to hell, and that you love Christ. Then he wouldn't have anything to hide.

David, remember, when a Roloff calls people cheap bastard douchebags, or leaves up a "I wanna punch faggots for Matt" comment, or takes pictures of their buddies throwing cats and posts them, or uses hatespeech on a public website, or does interviews where they discuss their son getting kicked out of school and say we can call it kicked out - ANY AND ALL BACKLASH from a Roloff's public statements are the fault of the *public*. After all.... Roloffs are NEVER at fault. They don't call themselves perfect but all criticism of them is invalid and wrong. Right Tiffany?

Matt and Amy discussion details of their marriage. Amy sniffling and shedding a few tears about how they've lost their friendship in their marriage and how she doesn't know if she sees Matt in the picture in another 20 years.

Then she goes on Joy Behar and talks about how awful it is that people speculate that they might get divorced.

It's just more of the Roloffs never being accountable for anything they do or participate in.

You're 100% correct Rap that the internet and reality TV weren't anything new in 2005. But, guess what...the Roloffs were. So it is, afterall, a fair assumption to say that perhaps Jeremy didn't think people would be searching for his profile on MySpace at that time.Moving on to more important issues....

Greg's "public life?? When you show your kids in their beds sleeping and waking up in the morning, that's not public life. When you show your son high on anesthetic after surgery in the hospital room, that's not public life. When you discuss your feelings for your son's girlfriends with television cameras, that's not public life. When you show your son failing his driving test, that's not your public life," statement does go to show that the Roloffs do include certain aspects of their real life into the show. So the show isn't 100% fake afterall, is it? Or is it still fake because the Roloffs don't disclose all their personal and private goings on as you think they should?

PREPARE YOURSELVES!!!!

"Now I must admit I have always enjoyed the "blame the public for seeing the comments, Jeremy thought it was private!...." (Rap)"..ANY AND ALL BACKLASH from a Roloff's public statements are the fault of the *public*.." (Rap)"Lord help us. The old 'blame people for looking at public websites' excuse.." (David)

And these are only just a few examples from this thread alone. So let's address that..oh um....lets say....how about right now.

Should the Roloffs be held accountable for the things they publicly say and do? Sure. They're public figures obviously and should be careful with what they put out publicly. But their social media profiles that were made specifically for their own PERSONAL family and friends is NOT for the public. Regardless of if they may have been "public" based on the websites criteria. They were having a conversation between friends, not a conversation with the entire world. And lets get this cleared up while we're at it: being a public figure does give up some of ones privacy. That fact is non-argueable. But one does not have to and is not required to give up ALL of their privacy and personal facets of life. That's a ridonkulous request for anyone to make of another person.

When then does a person stop and realize that the fault is their own for finding out information about someone that they don't necessarily agree with or like? Sure, as I've said, it's good to do your research and make up your own mind, but at the end of the day, it was you that made yourself go look for the information. It's not the Roloffs fault for making statements with friends and family and acting the way they want. The fault is then placed on the person who is going through someone else's private and personal conversations and information. At some point you've got to realize that if you do enough digging on someone, you're bound to come across something you don't like and that shouldn't be a surprise to you.

Julie, this is the very point that some of us are attempting to make on this blog. While some posters will attempt to cloud the facts and discredit the truth as the rest of us see it, others will question or give their own version of terms such as "reality", or "public" or "private".What is at the core of all this? I'm merely seeking the truth. Something that would appear quite simple proves difficult on this blog, as people jump in to try to spend time defining their version of the word "truth" while deflecting the discussion away from the facts that really is the heart of the discussion. Spirit has been accused of lying when Spirit reported actual proven facts, in my view simply to cloud the issue and cast doubt on things as they really are.Thank you Julie, for being honest. BEWARE! I've no doubt there will be people that will try to discredit you and say "You don't know Jeremy. You're lying. How dare you judge Jeremy's walk with Jesus." etc.etc I can't say why. It might be to try to hang onto their own perceived "truth"? It might be to avoid damage to the bottom line? I don't know. But thanks again.

Some people like Tiffany should stop reading my comment or they'll blame themselves for reading things they don't like. lol.

But for anyone interested in real truth?

I don't know Jeremy, but I went to High School with Audrey Botti. She's dating Jeremy now. I'm not best friends with her anything, but we were friendly enough.

Is anyone still wondering about Jeremy and alcohol? Because I can clear it up for you with fact.

I'm looking at about 10 pictures Audrey has of her and Jeremy and he has a beer in his hand in all those pictures.

In fact, Audrey said something about the commercial with the Bud Light dog that fetches beers and kegs for people. Audrey's comment on the video was that the beer fetching dog will be Jeremy's next purchase.

I hope that helps settle the question about whether Jeremy likes his alcohol or not.

Tiffany, you're arguing an invalid point, which is why so many people are frustrated with it.

It's not the *public's fault* that the Roloffs continue to display their private business on public social media websites. The info was out there in 2005 - when Matt Roloff began posting how his neighbors were jerks on the TLC website and when people began *warning him* what was on his kids public myspaces. The info was out there in 2006, 2007, 2008 - while Jeremy was blithly posting his "private" thoughts publically. Just because they *thought* it was private doesn't mean a thing. You can keep insisting "They thought it was private so IT WAS" - you're not right. You're not. You can bitch and moan how Jeremy didn't KNOW so everyone should just sit silent and pretend he was making private comments even though they were public - sorry Tiffany, but they were *public comments*. ALl the "he didn't *think* they were public" isn't going to change the basic facts and all the "How DARE anyone look at a public site that Jeremy *thought* was private! And How DARE anyone hold Jeremy accountable? He thought it was private and when a Roloff decides its private, well, a *Roloff has spoken!*" isn't going to change the reality.

You recently bent yourself into a pretzel insisting the very same thing about Jake being kicked out of school - that somehow its everyone's fault BUT the Roloffs for the Roloffs public comments.

Tiffany - I've asked before - Why are the Roloffs accorded priveledges the rest of us aren't? I mean, I sure as hell can't play the "If I say it is private, then despite my public comments, it IS PRIVATE" - so why are the Roloffs allowed to play the game this way? Tiffany? Why?

And please don't say "they didn't know". Thats not an excuse and it doesn't change the reality of their PUBLIC comments and how they, and you, blame the public for daring to look at public comments.

And for the record Tiffany, I don't think anyone is asking the Roloffs to give up all their privacy. I think we're all just tired of being yelled at for *invading their privacy* when they're posting their business on publically accessible websites. There's any number of things about the Roloffs I've heard from private sources that I don't choose to spread around... because they're private. But Jeremy posting about that beaner place called Mexico? Was on a publically accessible and open website.

Kelly, I'd like to try again to put my ideas on this whole thing clear.OK, so Jeremy likes his alcohol. So what? Big deal. I used to like my alcohol too. A lot! For 15 years. I realized that if I was honest and open, I could remove its power over me.Now hang on, I'm not claiming in any way that Jeremy had the problems that I did. Not at all. My big problem is why not just be honest about it? The Roloffs certainly are not above us, or above being open and honest about themselves. None of us are. not myself, or you, or Rap541, or Tiffany, or Chris Cardamone or Matt or anyone else. We could even throw Dana and Lynne C, in there for a good round cross sample. I just don't understand. Now, I'm sure Tiffany will make his usual offer to put it in Clear.Simple.Terms as before, and with the way my mind is wired, I'm quite comfortable being honest about my mental blocks in regard to some abstracts that I cannot grasp.

Btw, here's where the "private social media made for their personal private use" arguement fails. In 2005, 2006, 2007, and 2008... anyone who typed Jeremy James Roloff into Myspace's search could see his private personal meant only for family comments. When Tiffany goes on about people going thru the Roloffs personal private correspondence, please understand, there's no hacking involved, there's no theft involved, there's no *violation* involved. People are looking for public information on celebrities and finding it. Which, per Tiffany, makes the person who looks up the celeb WRONG.

It's not like someone broke into the Roloff house and stole Jer's diary - which is what Tiffany is implying and what she was implying when she was accusing this site of spreading rumors about Jake (Remember that Tiffany? Your ineffectual attempt to imply that Matt and Amy Roloff chattering in public about Jake's school problems was somehow this blog's fault? Way to just slink off and not apoligize for your public slurs btw) - that the information was somehow illicitely obtained.

It wasn't illicitely obtained because it's not unreasonable for people to look up celebs on social media sites. I tire of the implication Tiffany likes to make that anyone who dares look up the Roloffs on line is violating their privacy.

Btw, here's where the "private social media made for their personal private use" arguement fails. In 2005, 2006, 2007, and 2008... anyone who typed Jeremy James Roloff into Myspace's search could see his private personal meant only for family comments. When Tiffany goes on about people going thru the Roloffs personal private correspondence, please understand, there's no hacking involved, there's no theft involved, there's no *violation* involved. People are looking for public information on celebrities and finding it. Which, per Tiffany, makes the person who looks up the celeb WRONG.

It's not like someone broke into the Roloff house and stole Jer's diary - which is what Tiffany is implying and what she was implying when she was accusing this site of spreading rumors about Jake (Remember that Tiffany? Your ineffectual attempt to imply that Matt and Amy Roloff chattering in public about Jake's school problems was somehow this blog's fault? Way to just slink off and not apoligize for your public slurs btw) - that the information was somehow illicitely obtained.

It wasn't illicitely obtained because it's not unreasonable for people to look up celebs on social media sites. I tire of the implication Tiffany likes to make that anyone who dares look up the Roloffs on line is violating their privacy.

Rap, to be honest, I think Tiffany is so far off the rails, I don't even agree.

Celebrities and public figures are going to be discussed. What they do, post, say, might be talked about or repeated.

Tough luck. That's what it means to be a public figure.

When Prince Harry goes to a private party dressed as a Nazi, people are going to talk. Who the hell cares if it was a private party? Boo hoo.

What, the Roloffs posted pictures of them throwing the cat on Facebook or twitter and it got leaked out? Boo hoo. It was true.

If you don't want people to know who you are or be concerned with how you act, then don't be a public figure. The problem is people like the Roloffs want to pick and choose when they are public figures and when they aren't. It doesn't work that way.

The question to me is whether it is true? Not about how well they can hide all of their nastiness and lies. The fact they have all this stuff that keep on biting them in the butt speaks of volumes about the lack of character and integrity the Roloffs possess.

I think Tiffany is succeeding in trying to take the focus off of the fact that Jeremy's pastor spreads the message that gays must pray to God become "normal", while Amy and Matt collect money from gay rights and diversity groups.

I'm glad there's some people out there that value the truth and report things as they really are.

Timothy - well, I agree that Tiffany's "If I do something dumbass in public with my friends and family and I *think* it was private, then I have the right to be pissed when what I did in public gets discussd because I *think* its private and therefore my privacy was violated" arguement is utter nonsense, I do think there are things that are private.

With that said, if you post about it online, its not private. If you go to a party dressed as a Nazi, yes, its going to get around. If you post a photo of yourself kissing and hugging a male friend, or yourself shirtless with your eyes closed as your male friend rubs your chest... thats not keeping your cards close, and the Roloffs need to stop the "WE ARE SO VICTIMIZED" whenever they do something stupid and get caught with photos or internet comments or youtube videos of themselves doing something dumb.

I agree completely that the Roloffs are trying to play at both sides "oh we're just average folks" and "we're celebs".

Are there still fools in the world that don't understand that anything you post online is not truly private? That includes Facebook, Twitter, Myspace, Tumblr, etc

Employers have been known to check people's Facebook accounts. There's been several news stories over the years about people that get disciplined over content on their Facebooks or twitters. Wasn't there a daughter of one of "Housewives of ...." show that got kicked out of private school for using the N word on her Facebook when she was posting to her friend?

It's even more obvious when said person is a celebrity.

If you're so ashamed of something that you don't want it getting out, then don't post it on the internet.

How about the Roloffs try to live more honest lives where their whole image isn't based on fake personas? That's too easy of a solution, I guess. Much better to blame people for finding out about all the nastiness and dishonesty rather than the Roloffs themselves.

Had to take a course in libel when I got my journalism degree... the Roloffs are no longer considered private people. Being Public - they are fair game for criticism as long as you follow certain rules.

The reality is we could lie about the Roloffs all we wanted and unless they could prove malice (very difficult), we couldn't be held legally libel (Matt ask your lawyer and if he/she has any knowledge of journalism law, he/she will tell you this, idiot). Internet law is even more liberal!

The sad part is that why lie? The Roloffs allow plenty of "personal" information in the form of videos, Facebook, and photographs to stand testament.

Did anyone see the review of a recent Duggars show? Exploiting your dead fetus now... and TLC has a Toddlers & Tiaras mom sueing them because they ho'ed up their daughter. A Teen Mom is up for five years in jail if she doesn't complete her drug rehab. ROFLMAO!

Reality "stars" really take the cake!

BTW if Jeremy is living for Christ, what charity does he donate his time too? What soup kitchen? Why no photos of him going to church? Photos of him praying? Did he go visit the shut-in elders with food and to discuss the bible? Has he worked at the churches' Sunday school? Where is this long list of good works done by the good Christian Roloffs?

"Tiffany -I've asked before -Why are the Roloffs accorded priveledges the rest of us aren't? I mean, I sure as hell can't play the "If I say it is private, then despite my public comments, it IS PRIVATE" -so why are the Roloffs allowed to play the game this way? Tiffany? Why?" (Rap)Mmmk Rap, lets do a little role reversal, shall we?

You and everybody else wanna hold the Roloffs up to such a standard that you aren't willing to hold yourselves up to. Case and point, the comment I just referenced above. A couple of months ago I referenced to something you said yourself on here about how you like to have a drink every now and again. You then went on a rampage about how dare I personally judge you for being a drunk (a fact that never came outta my mouth in anyway, I just referenced what you had said on here.) Now, I didn't go through your personal profile(s) to obtain that information. That would be a violation of privacy. You said it on this site, which doesn't contain anybody's personal accounts and is genuinely open to the public for anyone to see because its a public discussion board, NOT a personal account. You didn't intend for that to be read only by your friends. You intended that to be read by the general public. So why Rap, why can't I hold you to the same standard that you wanna hold the Roloffs too? Why can you judge the Roloffs on comments intended for their friends on their personal accounts and I can't even reference something you said on a public discussion board that had nothing to do with your personal account(s)?

"And for the record Tiffany, I don't think anyone is asking the Roloffs to give up all their privacy." (Rap)Yet you and the vast majority bitch about how the Roloffs don't disclose all their personal information like their religious views and their personal beliefs and ALL the private goings on they do. That is, in fact, asking them to give up all of their privacy.

"If you don't want people to know who you are or be concerned with how you act, then don't be a public figure. The problem is people like the Roloffs want to pick and choose when they are public figures and when they aren't. It doesn't work that way." (Timothy) All's I gotta say about that is that you, Rap, and most everybody else want the Roloffs to be PR conscious every single moment of their entire life, in EVERYTHING they do, which is unfathomable to comprehend why that would be asked of them to begin with.

"Had to take a course in libel when I got my journalism degree... the Roloffs are no longer considered private people. Being Public -they are fair game for criticism as long as you follow certain rules. The reality is we could lie about the Roloffs all we wanted and unless they could prove malice (very difficult), we couldn't be held legally libel (Matt ask your lawyer and if he/she has any knowledge of journalism law, he/she will tell you this, idiot). Internet law is even more liberal!" (BeckyM)

Funny thing is, you can talk as much crap about anybody as you want. HOWEVER. Notice that was a big however? Even though a person is considered a public figure, it doesn't give you the right to defame them. Laws are laws and your journalism class should've taught you that, or at least a simple viewing of CNN would. Defamation IS held up in the court of law, for those that didn't know. ;)

1. People will talk about what they do. The very good point has been made that what you post online, even on Facebook is not truly private, especially if you are a public figure.

2. They get paid to speak about DIVERSITY! Yes, their religious views are relevant since they have made their money by holding themselves off as diversity advocates.

People do have a right to know if they truly carry that flag or if they are phony, hypocritical and use a noble cause only as a money maker.

I bet the ol' Roloffs, wouldn't be too happy if a reality star (the Roloffs don't seem to have a problem being critical of other reality stars) got patted on the back for being a diversity speaker about acceptance and equality if it was found that in their real lives they supported messages that people with dwarfism had to get taller to be "right with God" and that LP's don't make good parents.

Hey Tiffany, for things to be defamation, they actually need to be untrue...

Jeremy does use slurs.

Jeremy does attend and promote John Mark Comer and his church. JMC does teach that gay people are perverted and should pray to be cured.

Jeremy and Mueller did take photographs of themselves throwing a cat.

The Roloffs and their friends do insult fans.

The Roloffs and their friends do drink. Minors have been seen drinking Jack Daniels in the Roloffs garage.

Jacob did get kicked out of private school. A matter that Matt and Amy first discussed themselves online.

All this stuff is true. You're just upset that they aren't able to phony for people that chose to do some research as opposed to relying on a TV network consisting of producers (including the Roloffs themselves) portrayal of what the Roloffs are like.

Tiffany - I'm not on tv. I'm not a public figure. You decided to... what was your excuse? "Use a figure of speech" - essentially insulting me by saying "in your drunken state" - Since I don't make a point of personally insulting you by asking you say, what are you smoking, crack, to think that Jeremy wasn't using slurs - yes, I corrected you on how in polite discussions, if *you* want to be taken seriously, making personal insults about your opponents is offensive and means you have no arguement. Don't blame me that your childish tactics got you called out. You still haven't explained how "In your drunken state" is a "figure of speech" and perhaps if you want to be engaged like a grown up, you should.

But onwards. Tiff - you're having a disconnect on several levels. Yes, there are some people who want the Roloffs out and discussing everything. SO you disconnect when you say *I* and othters want that. I have always been upfront that I do not need the Roloffs blithering on line and in fact are causing a lot of their own problems by continuing to engage fans on line. Do the research, look thru many of the threads here. I'm not going to do it for you - you can be an adult and do the research or whine I am lying and then continue to insist you'r right until I post actual quotes and then you'll stomp off like the way you always do.

I simply tire of the Roloffs failing to be pr conscious, as you call it, and then insisting "it was private, oh god we're just private citizens living our lives give us our privacy!!!"

Jeremy's myspace was PUBLIC. He got caught being an idiot and the Roloffs and you insist it was "private" and its everyone's fault but Jeremy's.

The kiddies call fans "creepers". It gets reported, and bless us, it was supposed to be private!

Matt and Amy both initiate the Jake gets kicked out of school issue on line and sure enough, there is Tiffany noting how dear god it was private! PRIVATE! How could people on tv for six years know that openly discussing their kid getting kicked out of school wasn't public?? Bad public!

The kiddies post photos on line of themselves drinking in the garage, their underage pals drinking in the garage, cats being abused... they're just 21 year old children, they didn't know the internet ISN'T PRIVATE! Bad public for not treating adults like little boys in diapers!

As for defamation, see Tiffany, its not defamation if its true. If I say, gosh, Mueller and Christian were both underage when they were doing shots of whiskey in the Roloffs garage.... guess what? There's photos. Its not defamation.

Anyone else betting that Jeremy's empty head is exploding over the news that Proposition 8 was declared unconstitutional by the ninth circuit court of appeals in San Francisco which basically means that gay marriage is now all but legal in California.

Look under Celebrities"In the matter of privacy, entertainers often make a plea for special treatment as public figures. They argue that, as they are not appointed or elected to positions of public trust, their off-stage or off-screen lives are nobody's business but their own. They say that they play a fantasy role in a movie or a television show, and their real lives are private.

For journalists, the issue centres on whether public figures use publicity to promote a good image of themselves to the public. If they do, they cannot reasonably claim that the media should also not expose their bad qualities."

http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/Libel+and+Slander"To recover in a libel or slander suit, the plaintiff must show evidence of four elements: that the defendant conveyed a defamatory message; that the material was published, meaning that it was conveyed to someone other than the plaintiff; that the plaintiff could be identified as the person referred to in the defamatory material; and that the plaintiff suffered some injury to his or her reputation as a result of the communication."

Proving malicehttp://www.citmedialaw.org/legal-guide/proving-fault-actual-malice-and-negligence"Instead, the plaintiff must produce clear and convincing evidence that the defendant actually knew the information was false or entertained serious doubts as to the truth of his publication. In making this determination, a court will look for evidence of the defendant's state of mind at the time of publication and will likely examine the steps he took in researching, editing, and fact checking his work. It is generally not sufficient, however, for a plaintiff to merely show that the defendant didn't like her, failed to contact her for comment, knew she had denied the information, relied on a single biased source, or failed to correct the statement after publication."

Journalism 101 my dear.

Now go suck on a baby bottle for awhile. Maybe someone in your family can gently stroke your hair and sing you a lullaby because if you think your constant flaming here is doing the Roloffs any favors, you are wrong. All it does itmake more comments and puts the internet search engine on hyperdrive.

These Comments about Jeremy's faith are honestly the dumbest statements I have ever read. I can feel my IQ deteriorating as I read along. Why does it matter that Jeremy's pastor is "more conservative" than other Portland pastors? Portland is an extremely liberal area. I have been to solid rock and its really boring but it seems to have a much more accepting atmosphere than other churches I have been to. And Jeremy's been 21 for like 2 years now. Who cares if he drinks!

It gets attention because of Jeremy's fondness for Bible quotes. He apparently either genuinely believes he's a "living for Jesus" or likes to present an image to others that he's "living for Jesus" but people find out that he actually enjoys getting "hammered", "slammed", "drunk".

Jeremy professes his admiration and love for a Church and pastor that teaches that preaches that getting "slammed" or that getting "a buzz" is a sin that will keep you out of Heaven.

It makes Jeremy's statements about his faith look ridiculous and hollow.

Additionally, the "conservative" comment with regards to Solid Rock church is because the Roloffs make money off of attempting to portray themselves as advocates when in reality, they support a Church that is un-diverse. It's the type of thing that advocates should be standing up against, not supporting it.

It also goes to how Jeremy is quoted in a book on values as a underage teen saying he does not drink as it does not please God, he's lauded to the skies as Jeremy Jesus Roloff, that FINE Christian boy that we should all lavish praise upon because drinking is so very wrong... but when he admits (ON HIS PUBLIC MYSPACE) that he was drunk and set the barn on fire at fifteen, well, thats *private* and everyone who saw it violated the poor boy! And if someone says they saw Jeremy drinking in Ireland? That person is a LIAR because Jeremy is a CHRISTIAN and If *Jeremy* says he doesn't drink as it does not please God, he DOES NOT DRINK and anyone who says so is sinning and hating on that innocent Christian lad, may they BURN IN HELL. And pictures of the lad drinking up in Ireland while still under age turn up? Bless us, he's not lying! God says drinking is cool if you're legal and anyways anyone who has aproblem qwith it just isn't cool and bless us those people werre STILL LIARS! LIARS HATING ON THE INNOCENT JEREMY!

And now that Jer-Bear's legal? SUck up the suds and sin for Jesus! Jesus will forgive anything so get drunk for the Lord whoo hoo!

After a while, Anon, people get tired of hearing how they're liars hating when they're telling the truth.

I can believe what John Mark Comer said in his speach about depression. They don't believe in science? Depression is a disease! I don't believe that if you sleep with your boyfriend/girlfriend and you feel depress is because you make sin!!! We are in 2012!!!! I understand what he means like to look on your action to see why you're depress but sometimes, people nead to take medication and it's not because they make sin because I think a lot of people would be depress!

They are liars. Jeremy lied in the book about not drinking because it doesn't please God. He even said he was better than all those bad kids. He was drinking back then! The vodka barn story proves that.

Of course John Mark Comer and his followers believe in science they're ignorant evangelical christians.

These are the same sort of people who believe so wholeheartedly in "the power of prayer" and don't want anyone to use modern medicine because "it's wrong".

Too which I say fine if you believe so much in god then when you get cancer don't go for treatment just try to pray it away and when you're on your deathbed and you realize that you're a fool and it's too late to do anything you can die knowing you've committed suicide because of your religious beliefs.

I just stumbled across this blog and honestly don't know who Jeremy is but just wanted unto say that I've been going to Solid Rock for years now and have never once heard him say anything close to this about homosexuality. If you listen to some of the more recent sermons you will actually hear him talk about some of his friends being gay. He is direct on what Scripture teaches on homosexuality but I have never once heard him say they need to be cured (that would be like saying we all need to be "cured" of ourselves). Makes me sad actually that this is being said about him because it couldn't be more untrue. Honestly, I think if there were more real, raw, genuine pastors out there like John Mark the church would be in a much better state than it is in today. We really would accomplish so much more in this life if we would just love people the way we are supposed to (and yes, that includes Christians judging and condemning other Christians). So sad that these kinds of things are being said.

Sarah, did you watch the video of John Mark's sermon from a "Loveology"?

If not, here it is: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UW-9HNG7uPQ (or click on my name to go to the link directly).

What he says is all right there, Sarah. Listen to Part 6 too, that's where he actually directs people who are gay to "de-gaying" organizations.

Sarah, the facts are right there.

It is very dishonest of you to come to a site and imply or flat out accuse people of lying when they are actually speaking about facts.

John Mark Comer believes and teaches that people who are gay are sinners who will not enter the Kingdom of God unless they seek forgiveness and he advocates that they heal by asking Jesus to cure them of being of gay.

Again, watch the video Sarah.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UW-9HNG7uPQ

Hopefully you don't disappear now, Sarah. I'm curious to hear what you have to say.

By the way, while I think it is a dangerous message to send (that gay people can or should pray and be cured) you, Jeremy Roloff or John Mark Comer can believe what you want. I don't expect you have all of my own beliefs. It is your right.

What I do object to (and I know a lot of other people feel the same way) is when people don't own their beliefs in real life and are dishonest or accuse others of lying for saying the truth.

John Mark Comer preaches that gay people should pray to Jesus and be cured. He recommends some of those "de-gaying" organizations. It's a fact. Don't deny it. Own it. Be transparent, not dishonest.

Hi Brandon, thanks for your post. I actually haven't seen this and although I'm not able to listen to it right now I definitely will tomorrow. I wasn't trying to accuse anyone of lying, I apologize if I came across that way (although I can see how it would seem that way looking back). Honestly, I was just really surprised at what I was reading and sincerely believed he wouldn't say anything like that. I do think homosexuality is a really hard topic for a lot of people and so frequently they are treated as though they have committed the unforgivable sin which is tragic to me because it's such a lie. I appreciate you posting this to give me a reference on where this blog post came from. I still don't believe John Mark meant in any way to be offensive or hostile because that just seems like it would be out of character but I do see how words like that can be very damaging and hurtful. Thanks again for the clarification, all the best to you!

Thank you, Sarah. To be honest, John Mark tries to be nice about it. He says people shouldn't yell that gay people are going to hell because that doesn't help. He tries to say that all sin is equal and the church shouldn't make homosexuality THE one sin above all others. However, the fact is he then goes onto say people who are gay should seek spiritual counselling and then promotes an "ex-gay organization and talks about the "success" story of an ex gay who is now married to a woman.

Hi Brandon. The link is in Spanish? Do you have a link in English? I sincerely do not believe that John Mark is trying to be offensive or hurtful in any way. He does teach what the Scriptures teach (although they don't teach that homosexuals needs to be "cured"). All of us, Christians included, make mistakes in things we say - I do it all the time. I do know from being a part of the church for so long that he does not regularly teach that nor does he come down on the gay community. I'd love to see the link you are referring to so I can understand better what you mean when you say he believes homosexuals should be cured. Also, I am sorry for all the hurt this has caused people, both you and those reading this.

Super long time in between responses. So sorry about that! I did listen to it after I realized it was in English (guess I should have hit play to begin with huh??). I honestly didn't interpret what he was saying in the same way and I listened to it quite a few times and had my husband listen as well to see if I was misinterpreting anything. He was reading what is stated in the Scriptures which can at times sound harsh if not read in the right context. He did a sermon recently that I thought was great (it was on food - how could that not be great right? :-) ) and at the end says one of my favorite things that I wish was said more often in the church. He says, "If you're here today and you're gay, Jesus wants to have dinner with you." Here's the link if you want to listen http://www.ajesuschurch.org/teaching-current/?sermon_id=964. The part I'm referring to is at the very end (around 43 minutes) but I think you need to listen to the whole thing in order to have appropriate context (he also addresses the way most Christians treat others, particularly those who are gay, throughout the sermon). Just take a listen. I completely respect your opinion and am not at all trying to change it, just trying to provide some additional information. Hopefully I hear back from you! And I also hope you have a wonderful holiday season with your family :-).

Hi Sarah, I appreciate that we interpret JMC's comments differently. Thank you for the link. I will listen to it soon.

I'll say that yes, I do think he was "trying" to be nice. Trying to sound respectful. Part of his point was that Christians should NOT make gay marriage or being gay out to be THE only issue that matters.

But the bottom line is that he was promoting the message that gay people need to be cured and can be cured by prayer. That's not in doubt. He even gave out a link. If you follow the link he gave out (portlandfellowship.com), "de-gaying" people is exactly the purpose of the website he recommended.

And that is a controversial message to preach. Just a few months ago, it made all the news headlines that organizations were actually apologizing for their "de-gaying" agenda/practices.

I understand that JMC is saying it nicely. And he's telling Christians not to attack or humiliate or to be aggressive towards gay people. BUT. He is saying you are going to Hell if you are a gay unless you pray to Jesus, then you will be cured and all will be alright when Jesus makes you normal. And that, imo, is a terrible, terrible and dangerous message that leads to many of suicides we hear about.

But again, if that's the belief John Mark Comer has or that the Roloffs have, it is their right. I don't have to agree with it. I'm sure there are things I believe that they don't agree with it.

The problem in this case is the hypocrisy with the Roloffs. The Roloffs actually sell themselves and get paid to be acceptance advocates. Spirits has an article here about Amy's speech she was paid to give about "Accepting yourself and your difference - being a lone tree among the forest."

Yes, I think if you are going to call yourself a diversity advocate and get paid by groups that are all about accepting people for being different, you should not be anywhere near messages like "You need to pray to Jesus to be cured of your difference and pray to be normal like me".

That's the problem that I and others have with the Roloffs and their beliefs. They should call their message "Accept me, accept us "Little People" as we are, but we don't have to do the same for groups different from us". But they try to sell the broad message because they know that can bring in the money. It's disingenuous, dishonest and sneaky.

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