Please feel free to complete the crossword by posting answers in this thread. I will endeavour to update the O.P grid and respond to answers at least twice daily.

I have attempted to follow Ximenes-ish rules. And when I say -ish, I mean ISH. Really it's more of an Libertarian style on account of my amateurism and lack of skill. In fact, it's uber-libertarian this time. Be aware I done me best, and me best (at this point) may be even worse than the last time.

That said, this crossword should slightly harder than the first to complete. Once again you may hindered by my poorly constructed clues, and this time I've thrown a few different types of clue into the mix. I am aware that a few (cf many) of the clues are dodgy, but I feel that's just adds to the challenge *grin*

Once again, feel free to tell me how I could've done it better/what I got wrong.

Here are some guidelines:

*Try to have fun.

*Work together or on your own.

*Bemoan the clues.

*It's encouraged (but not necessary) to parse the clues when answering. This will help me learn where I am going wrong/right.

*Discussion of clue construction is also encouraged.

*I may bump the thread occasionally if it drops off the radar, but I will let it die if no-one gives it a crack after 7 days.

*Try to have fun.

Here is a plea:

Don't shout at me too much when you find I've messed something up--instead, tell me where I went wrong.

Here is where you take over:

Good luck :)

HarryHoskins

02-15-2013, 04:35 AM

The French baby holder is designed to be seen.

HarryHoskins

02-16-2013, 03:53 AM

Lancashire Evening Post write about hobo to get headline.

HarryHoskins

02-17-2013, 01:36 AM

The result of running over a sleeping gendarme in a 2CV?

Parametric

02-17-2013, 01:57 AM

Yay! Harry brings me crosswords! :D

6 down, "continental breakfast".
22 down, "take the mickey".

HarryHoskins

02-17-2013, 02:12 AM

Ah! Nice to have you here, Para. :)

6 down, "continental breakfast[s]".
22 down, "take the mickey".

A couple of humdingers there!

Parametric

02-17-2013, 02:30 AM

27 across, "take the bull by the horns", while 27 down is something like "transformed"? :tongue Trans being the Neil Young album and the number being four/for.

edit: 29 across, "act out".

HarryHoskins

02-17-2013, 02:33 AM

27 across, "take the bull by the horns"

Rodeo queen!

... while 27 down is something like "transformed"? :tongue Trans being the Neil Young album and the number being four/for.

Something like is right. You have the first part -- but not the second, yet.

29 across, "act out".

A great performance!

Parametric

02-17-2013, 02:36 AM

Something like is right. You have the first part -- but not the second, yet.

Ah! Transfigure!

Parametric

02-17-2013, 02:40 AM

3 down, "annul". That would be cannula left accountant (take "c" and "a" off "cannula") invalid (annul).

HarryHoskins

02-17-2013, 02:45 AM

Ah! Transfigure!

Turned into the right answer!

3 down, "annul". That would be cannula left accountant (take "c" and "a" off "cannula") invalid (annul).

I'm convinced that 24 down, "fire axe", is a double meaning with the solution being a word that means to be sacked from work - ie to be both "fired" and "axed". But my spidey sense is suggesting that 31 across ends in an f, which makes 24 down **y*f*. That doesn't look very likely ... /ponders

edit: Oh! I've got it! 24 down is "layoff", so 31 across is indeed "sharif", the descendants of Fatimah.

Parametric

02-17-2013, 10:43 PM

Still putting all the pieces together, but I'm thinking 37 across is "hitherto".

I'm convinced that 24 down, "fire axe", is a double meaning with the solution being a word that means to be sacked from work - ie to be both "fired" and "axed". But my spidey sense is suggesting that 31 across ends in an f, which makes 24 down **y*f*. That doesn't look very likely ... /ponders

edit: Oh! I've got it! 24 down is "layoff", so 31 across is indeed "sharif", the descendants of Fatimah.

A double whammy! Nice working.

Still putting all the pieces together, but I'm thinking 37 across is "hitherto".

45a is either a really great clue, or an awful one. You'll all be able to tell me when you get it which it was.

23 ac = little (first letter of the words)

21 ac = nattier (even letters)

ETA: Para!! Come back!!

Mccardey! Glad you made it (I figured you were busy from your user title) I reckon if you don't have much time for this one, another will be along in a few weeks. :)

A great return with a perfect double!

Parametric

02-18-2013, 12:29 AM

Close, but no cigar.

You challenge me, sir? Take two - 37 across, "hereunto". Up to now (hereunto) Hungarian leader (H)'s hesitation (er) met with European Union (EU)'s veto (to) - at the centre of which lay surface tension, which according to google is measured in units of N/m.

Parametric

02-18-2013, 12:32 AM

23 ac = little (first letter of the words)

21 ac = nattier (even letters)

Awesome! I rarely spot the ones where you take a letter from each word - and the even letter ones are even harder to see. :D

HarryHoskins

02-18-2013, 12:37 AM

You challenge me, sir? Take two - 37 across, "hereunto". Up to now (hereunto) Hungarian leader (H)'s hesitation (er) met with European Union (EU)'s veto (to) - at the centre of which lay surface tension, which according to google is measured in units of N/m.

I stand defeated! Nice work.

I used the same working until the end -- Veto (no) at the centre of which (positional indicator) surface tension (T -- the surface of Tension)

Parametric

02-18-2013, 12:42 AM

A stand defeated! Nice work.

I used the same working until the end -- Veto (no) at the centre of which (positional indicator) surface tension (T -- the surface of Tension)

I have to confess that I use a brute-force method of crossword solving, which is to find the simple solution first and then see if I can puzzle out the cryptic part. It's not terribly elegant and it does result in the occasional mistake. I must hang my head. :tongue

I have to confess that I use a brute-force method of crossword solving, which is to find the simple solution first and then see if I can puzzle out the cryptic part. It's not terribly elegant and it does result in the occasional mistake. I must hang my head. :tongue

No head hanging needed, that's about the way I do it too. And maybe that's why 45a is giving you a hard time (temporarily, I'm sure). I've tried to make the definition indicators a little more tricky in this crossword. In doing so I might be treading a tenuous line, but I got to make you suffer for the answers somehow! :)

I can't believe I stumped everyone -- I mean, I know some a lot of the clues are a little torturous in their construction (not to mention a little dodgy) but it can't be true that y'all are stuck, can it?

mccardey

02-26-2013, 01:52 AM

42 ac repairman?

43 d inter ?

Have these been found already?

Parametric

02-26-2013, 01:55 AM

I think my head will explode before I crack this crossword, but let me take another shot. :tongue 9 down, "reticence".

HarryHoskins

02-26-2013, 01:59 AM

Ah, Mccardey and Para to the rescue! :)

42 ac repairman?

43 d inter ?

Have these been found already?

Nope they'e not been found, and yup, you hit two for two, nice work!

I think my head will explode before I crack this crossword, but let me take another shot. :tongue 9 down, "reticence".

No head exploding allowed on my watch -- bullseye!

mccardey

02-26-2013, 02:03 AM

19 ac transplanting? Oh no - it doesn't fit :(

mccardey

02-26-2013, 02:08 AM

11d strategists?

HarryHoskins

02-26-2013, 02:10 AM

11d strategists?

That's some damn nice moves, Mccardey!

mccardey

02-26-2013, 02:13 AM

Para - 19ac? I think it might be re: something: ing. I was thinking it was about the adoption group and the heart transplant dr.

mccardey

02-26-2013, 02:22 AM

Para - 19ac? I think it might be re: something: ing. I was thinking it was about the adoption group and the heart transplant dr.

reimplanting?

maybe?

not even sure it's a word...?

HarryHoskins

02-26-2013, 02:27 AM

reimplanting?

maybe?

not even sure it's a word...?

It might be a word, but it's not the word I am looking for -- you are on the right tracks with what both doctors are famous for though (well, with a little cryptic thinking). :)

Parametric

02-26-2013, 02:28 AM

Agree with your logic, but am also stumped for the word itself. :Huh:

mccardey

02-26-2013, 02:36 AM

it could be heart-hunting if it was two words... my heads going to fall off in a minute

mccardey

02-26-2013, 02:40 AM

heartmending? heartrending??

Parametric

02-26-2013, 02:41 AM

Heartrending?

HarryHoskins

02-26-2013, 02:43 AM

Double Trouble! :)

heartmending? heartrending??

Heartrending?

Double points! :)

mccardey

02-26-2013, 02:45 AM

Whoa! Para - we're good !!! :)

It's quarter to midnight here and ffffreeezing. I'm off to bed (and I'll be trying to work out where mutilating heads comes in all night. 13 ac grrrr Thanks for that, Harry ;)

Parametric

02-26-2013, 02:52 AM

Ha! 5 down, "timing". :D

HarryHoskins

02-26-2013, 02:54 AM

Apologies for the potential nightmares, Mccardey. :)

Parametric

02-26-2013, 02:54 AM

I'm going to inch out on that limb again and suggest that 12 across is "calendar month".

HarryHoskins

02-26-2013, 02:54 AM

Ha! 5 down, "timing". :D

Super-dooper nice moves, Para!!!

HarryHoskins

02-26-2013, 02:55 AM

I'm going to inch out on that limb again and suggest that 12 across is "calendar month".

The limb can take it, that's spot on and very well played!

mirandashell

02-26-2013, 03:09 AM

I'm here!

36 down - laities?

HarryHoskins

02-26-2013, 03:17 AM

I'm here!

36 down - laities?

Now that, Miranda, is very, very nice work indeed! Gold star! :)

mirandashell

02-26-2013, 03:20 AM

I'm stuck now.....

HarryHoskins

02-26-2013, 03:23 AM

I'm stuck now.....

Well, consider it a well deserved rest -- I wasn't sure laities would be got, you know.

HarryHoskins

02-28-2013, 03:55 AM

I do declare that some of the remaining clues are badly constructed -- should I tweak the clues a little?

mirandashell

02-28-2013, 02:31 PM

It might help. Have to admit I'm totally stuck on the remaining clues. So is OH ...

:flag:

mccardey

02-28-2013, 02:47 PM

It might help. Have to admit I'm totally stuck on the remaining clues. So is OH ...

:flag:

Me, too :flag:

Parametric

02-28-2013, 03:14 PM

I do declare that some of the remaining clues are badly constructed -- should I tweak the clues a little?

I've added them to the OP, and left the originals there so you can see where I was going wrong. As usual feel free to point out/discuss my mistakes.

Apologies for the both old and new clues -- some of them are rather tough to make work. (Especially when I dropped a Dan Quayle in 1 Down) :)

mccardey

02-28-2013, 05:32 PM

A learned answer, Mccardey!

then 8d is literary?

which makes 13 ac titular which is my favourite clue. :)

Parametric

02-28-2013, 05:45 PM

OK, I'm stealing all the clues so let me white it out so people can continue:

14 across, "himalayan".
7 across, "solarises"
15 across, "inlet"

Parametric

02-28-2013, 05:46 PM

Ah! 1 down, "saccharin", a sweetener and anagram of "cash in car".

I thought for ages that 20 down (body/carver) must be "plough", as in a carver of the earth also found in a heavenly body, and the new clue confirms it.

mirandashell

02-28-2013, 06:26 PM

15 across is idler?

mirandashell

02-28-2013, 06:28 PM

Is 18 d waist?

mirandashell

02-28-2013, 06:30 PM

14 a is Himalayan?

Harry, did you take pity on us all? LOL!

Parametric

02-28-2013, 06:38 PM

Is 18 d waist?

That matches the new clue exactly, but what on earth does that have to do with Tolkien's friend's land? Was TS Eliot a friend of Tolkien? I went straight to CS Lewis' Narnia.

That must make 17 across "renowned". So the last clue is 2 down?

2 down. A strong-boned bastard's father. (7) m*l*m*n

mirandashell

02-28-2013, 06:40 PM

I know. I'm getting the answers but can't relate them to the old clues.

Parametric

02-28-2013, 06:47 PM

I think it might be via TS Eliot's The Waste Land. I hadn't heard that TS Eliot and Tolkien were friends, but that could just be my lack of education. :D

HarryHoskins

02-28-2013, 11:38 PM

then 8d is literary?

which makes 13 ac titular which is my favourite clue. :)

Double Whammy!

OK, I'm stealing all the clues so let me white it out so people can continue:

14 across, "himalayan".
7 across, "solarises"
15 across, "inlet"

One short of a hatrick!

Ah! 1 down, "saccharin", a sweetener and anagram of "cash in car".

Sweet!

I thought for ages that 20 down (body/carver) must be "plough", as in a carver of the earth also found in a heavenly body, and the new clue confirms it.

You're a star[s]!

15 across is idler?

No flies on you!

Is 18 d waist?

Flat-out right!

That must make 17 across "renowned".

Right on!

Only one more to go (and you'll never guess what) it's not the best clued of clues even though I re-clued it! :)

HarryHoskins

03-01-2013, 12:04 AM

I know. I'm getting the answers but can't relate them to the old clues.

As usual, I'll give the clue parsings (and a little more in-depth workings this time) when the xword is complete so you can see where I was going wrong. :)

In the meantime, I will say:

I think it might be via TS Eliot's The Waste Land. I hadn't heard that TS Eliot and Tolkien were friends, but that could just be my lack of education. :D

Yup, was the Wasteland.

The old clue for this was a little dodgy because I wanted to make the middle girth/middle earth pun so the clue was more interesting. Because of that, I had to include Tolkien, and the easiest way for me to do that (but the surely the most tortuously bad for you guys) was to link him another literary figure. My Google Fu brought up (maybe tenuous) links that Tolkien and Elliot were friends and members of a Christian writers group (not the Inklings) so that was good enough for me.

In doing this, the clue became a triple definition clue (which probably made things harder) and also Tolkien's closer/more documented friendship with C.S.Lewis became a red herring. The red herring, I think, hurt the clue and made it a little unfair. I would love to hear all of your thoughts about that as discussing the clue construction and what is allowed/fair/acceptable (or just plain wrong) would really help me to make better clues.

Thanks again to everyone who took part, and apologies again for me bad clues. I'll put up the full workings either later tonight or tomorrow evening. In the meantime, feel free to congratulates yourselves and discuss the clues.

If anyone fancies stepping forward to set the next one, that would be great. If not, I'll do another one in a couple of weeks (unless that is too soon). :)

Parametric

03-01-2013, 12:46 AM

Ah! Milkman! One of those clues that makes perfect sense in retrospect. :D

To get the Self, one has to link it to God -- I do capitalise Self, but is this enough. Also, does Allah work as a homophone for ALA in this context? Furthermore, the end of this clue is clunky: does 'and finally disapearred' really suggest the 'D' of 'and' has to go? I dunno!

TOTAL CALAMITY! Dan Quayle would be proud! I can only offer apology after apology for this as I clued it for Saccharin with a E and not without. Furthermore, the 'during' after fired is so clunky, awful and counter-intuitive that I have given myself 50 lashes in penance. Again, sorry if I wasted your time with this clue.

Attempted to make you think of who is a bastard's father. Traditionally, a milkman is a likely cuckhold.

Further Info:

Whilst I think some clues should be difficult (and their getting should depend on letters from other clues) -- this, as was, is far too tough. Also, I threw in the 'some' red herring to make you think it was a container clue. Furthermore, the 'poor', even in a cryptic, is pretty superfluous.

All in all, not the best of clues, but, as I have mentioned, it does raise the question: Should some clues be so hard that other letters are required to aid in their solving? What do you all think?

ALT: Milkman [cryptic]

A strong-boned bastard's father?

Changed the clue to give double leads to the answer. Stong-boned should send you to calcium and milk, whilst the likely father of a bastard is the trad cuckhold, a milkman.

Problems with 'slight break' should really be 'short break'. Does it work though? Hmmm. Also, whilst 'is medically wise' as the definition works for the clue, it is a little tenuous as a definition itself.

I've used contractions before to misdirect and deceive, but this is the first time I used it in an anagram. Is it fair? As is, the clue makes you think that the s after the apostrophe is part of the anagram fodder -- but, it's actually just a contraction of 'is senseless'. I'm not sure whether this is fair play, any thoughts?

Stupidly [anagram indicator] soldiering on [anagram fodder] at the end of war [R = letter at the end of wa[R] & anagram fodder] is not cool [definition]

Further info:

I think I can get away with the additional R being included into the anagram without an addition indicator (though it is a little dodgy). The real question I have is about the definition.

As I have said before, I would argue that some clues need to be a little dependent on getting letters to aid solving them. Therefore, the vague definition 'is not cool' works to help you know you have the answer once you get enough letters, rather than solidly giving it. Is this fair? What do you think?

11d: Strategists [Charade]

A guitar, for example, is the top self-starter for forward thinking players.

A guitar [STRAT] for example [EG] is [IS] the top [T = the top of [T]he] self-starter [S = the starter of [S]elf] for [definition indicator] forward thinking players [definition]

I went into detail about this in a previous post, but, further to that, it can definitely be accused of being convoluted at the very least.

ALT: Waist [double definition]

A band has got guts behind it.

A band [definition] has got guts behind it [definition]

20d: Plough [double definition]

Body Carver

Body [definition] Carver [definition]

Further Info:

I think I stand by this clue. Saying that, my sister (her of the Times afficiandodom) thought it not clear enough. We got into a conversation about A: Not enough definition for a celestial body -- and B: a plough turns earth rather than carves it.

Again, I'd argue that a double definition gives two shots at the answer and therefore can require a little more lateral thinking. Also, a plough does carve as well as turn, so there, Sis! What does anybody else think on the matter?

Question about capitalisation. To mislead, I didn't capitalise 'Monkey', fair or unfair? Any opinions?

24d: Layoff [double defintiton]

Fire axe.

Fire [defintion] axe [defintion]

26d: Shatterproof [charade]

Unable to go to pieces, an insane chap protects himself with endless scientific evidence.

Unable to go to pieces [defintion] an insane chap [HATTER = mad hatter] protects himself with [positional indicator - hatter shelters between the next two parts of the clue] endless [S = the end of less[S]] scientific evidence [PROOF]

27d: Transfigure [charade]

Change number at the end of a Neil Young album.

Change [definition] number [FIGURE] at the end of [positional indicator] a Neil Young album [TRANS]

Further info:

The positional indicator may be a little dodgy. As this is a down clue, it should indicate below, but I figured that 'at the end of' would be ok because track listings are listed vertically. Still, not perfect, but maybe excusable?

I'm not sure playing with the definition (having the solver move the two words together) is Kosher, but it seemed to work in the context of the clue.

43d: Inter [cryptic]

What one could also do to Saint Edmund's skull? (5)

Works on the skull being the head of St Edmunds (BURY St Edumnds) and also leading you to think bout death. After that it's a simple synonym for bury.

Further Info:

Might've been better if I'd added 'missing' in front of skull.

So, that's about all folks. :)

Please comment, discuss and berate the clues if you feel that way inclined. It will certainly help me to get better as a setter and save you all some frustration in the process!

It'd be great if someone fancies stepping up to set the next crossword, but if no-one does, I'll do another one in a couple of weeks. Thanks again to everyone who took part and well done for wrestling with my clues (especially the really bad ones). :)