So... I went to church yesterday - something I am trying to do more often lately. Trying to be a better Christian and all that.

The pastor spoke about the fifth commandment: "Honor thy father and thy mother". He went on and on about how the bible doesn't give you certain circumstances where you have to obey, and that we cannot choose to obey only that which suits us. We have to obey these 10 commandments, regardless of anything else. We have to honor our parents, even if they were lousy parents, because they were appointed to by God and did the best they could, being sinful humans.

WTF? Forgiveness I can still get my head around. I am even willing to work at forgiving my abusers and all those who were complicit. But to honor my abusers? How the fuck am I supposed to do that?

How do I honor the man who beat me for fun, used me as an ashtray, and raped me whenever he was sober enough to get it up?

How do I honor the woman who first refused to believe me, then scolded me, screamed at me and even slapped me for talking about it, and then abandoned me with a man she knew to be abusive?

I don't call that doing their best. I call that doing their best to destroy me.

Someone, please help me understand. Because right now I am inches away from simply turning my back and walking away from religion completely...

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I guess what I'm trying to sayIs whose life is it anyway because livin'Living is the best revengeYou can play-- Def Leppard

Trust me when i say forgive yes and that is more for yourself than anything else. Your pastor is wrong to just leave it so open ended like that. Honoring they mother and father can also mean staying away from them Because if you did go around them that would end up inevitably in dishonoring them I do not go around my mother to much because of this very reason we just do not get along in the normal mother son relationship so instead of trying to fake it we are around each other as long as we could and should be.

The MAJOR PART AND POINT YOUR PASTOR FORGOT TO MENTION Is that the bible says to honor your mother and farther IN THE LORD

Ephesians 6 (NIV)One verse per lineChildren and Parents1 Children, obey your parents in the Lord, for this is right. 2 "Honor your father and mother"--which is the first commandment with a promise-- 3 "that it may go well with you and that you may enjoy long life on the earth." 4 Fathers, do not exasperate your children; instead, bring them up in the training and instruction of the Lord.

I am pleased to say you honor them in the lord if they are not in the lord and living and bringing you up in the lord than there is no obligation to honor them in this biblical wayEveryone wants to leave this part out just like the wife is to honor or follow the husband as he follows Christ if he no longer follows Christ why would she follow ?

The same goes for this in this instance obey what ? If they or he or she molested you this is not training a child up in the way that he or she should go no in fact this is where you have to read on about Christ telling the people that it would be better for a millstone tied around the neck and cast into the sea for hurting the little ones meaning children

You have to use the holy spirit and let it lead and guide you read and study the word for yourself come to some conclusion for yourself man gets it wrong sometimesThat is the case here you do forgive but you may be honoring them by staying away from them nothing but pain is birthed by being around them and love does not birth pain

Do not get caught up in that Kind of teaching Jesus came and died because we are not capable of keeping the law that is including the 10 Commandments. Man is not capable of living a sinless life We are going to sin in this life but we should begin to sin less and less We are forgiven past present and future sins when we accept Christ as our personal Lord and Savior then it is the work of the Holy Spirit that will begin to sanctify us And the more we are purified and become more Christ like and conform our life to be more Christ like it will reflect in a manner as to not break the 10 Commandments Well will we always keep them 100% no because we are fallible But we have been redeemed by the blood of the lamb He knew that we would struggle he knew that we would sin so he paid the ultimate price for us But this does not give us an excuse to keep living the way we lived before we were saved Our life Should automatically begin to look different as our relationship grows in our knowledge of God grows And the sanctifying work of the Holy Spirit begins to minister to us. And reveals to you personally what needs to go and what needs to stay not man's ideas of what should go and what should stay. Too many people get in the business of doing gods work and only the work that the Holy Spirit can do everyone is at a different place in their life with God their faith is at a different place with God it is not up to man to determine how much faith or how much a person should know

God wants for every man to come to him and give their life to him and let him lead them let the spirit feed you read and study the word for yourself and the questions that you seek will be found draw near to him and he will draw near to you

It's in there. My dad, we discovered, has stage 4 prostate cancer. It's in the bone now. He provoked my wrath with his abuse, and, honestly, hope the SOB suffers like hell!

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Phoenix

A guy opens the front door and sees a snail on his doorstep. He picks up the snail and throws it across the street in a neighbor's yard. A year later, the guy opens the front door and the same snail is on his doorstep. The snail says, "What the f*ck was that about?"

I agree, where the parents stray from the will of the Lord, the call for obedience is gone. The verse better translated "Children, obey your parents as if to the Lord". Not freed for total disobedience; never obeying, just freed from anything that is against God. Is it a minor point here? Maybe - but I thought one worth making.

As for honoring - my studies have brought me to a slightly different place which I offer as another view - I am to honor my parents. Period. This verse does not carry the 'in the Lord' qualification, it is a new statement. But what is honor? Lack of disrespect.... I've been able (at least some) to fulfill this with politeness on the phone when required, no more screaming at them for their "crimes against me", etc etc. They know what they are - the Lord will deal with them. (Romans 12:19 "It is mine to avenge, I will repay.")

And if there's any doubt where to draw the line, there's Col 3:23 "And in all you do - do it as to the Lord".

Just my take.

ps - regarding the wife/husband who is married to an unbelieving spouse. Let's not forget 1 Cor 7:16 "How do you know, wife, whether you will save your husband? Or, how do you know, husband, whether you will save your wife?" Yes, he's talking staying married here - but how do you fulfill that without honor?

So basically, you're saying my pastor was wrong, and that I don't have to honor them if they don't live according to the will of God?

That sounds a lot better. No way either of them brought me up in the way any God I'd be willing to worship would want...

Thank you.

"And, ye fathers, provoke not your children to wrath: but bring them up in the nurture and admonition of the Lord." Eph 6:4

Your pastor failed to bring up that other scripture. If you provoke your kids to wrath, you deserve what you get. Honor works both ways you know.

_________________________
Phoenix

A guy opens the front door and sees a snail on his doorstep. He picks up the snail and throws it across the street in a neighbor's yard. A year later, the guy opens the front door and the same snail is on his doorstep. The snail says, "What the f*ck was that about?"

I am to honor my parents. Period. This verse does not carry the 'in the Lord' qualification, it is a new statement. But what is honor? Lack of disrespect.... I've been able (at least some) to fulfill this with politeness on the phone when required, no more screaming at them for their "crimes against me", etc etc. They know what they are - the Lord will deal with them. (Romans 12:19 "It is mine to avenge, I will repay.")

And if there's any doubt where to draw the line, there's Col 3:23 "And in all you do - do it as to the Lord".

Just my take.

Mmmm, I'm wondering if this is perhaps what he meant when he said "honor"...

I interpreted "honor" as respecting them, even when they aren't present (he mentioned not talking bad about them in front of others, etc, which, at the time, I also interpreted as I'm not supposed to tell people how they abused me, because that would be showing them in a bad light, and thus "dishonoring" them. Which is pretty much what my mother told me when I told her my father was molesting us - don't say such things! He's your father, you need to respect him!

I just don't know...

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I guess what I'm trying to sayIs whose life is it anyway because livin'Living is the best revengeYou can play-- Def Leppard

I don't believe telling others for you to heal is dishonoring your parents - you're doing it for your healing - it's not even against them in that regard. I also don't believe God would expect you to not report something if you saw abuse (or any crime).

One thing I do want to say is do not over-stress this, if you can. We are flesh and blood, human, and we make mistakes. Fortunately for us God looks at the heart - the intentions - the desires and tells us where we fall short - His grace is enough to cover it all. So even if you don't get the honor thing "perfect" - it's ok. Remember God's grace, and claim it's promise.

My take and undersatnding on this passage works for me now. "Honoring" my parents doesn't mean following and participating in their sickness. It means that I allow them to live the lives they're living, and put a boundary to protect myself from their sickness. It means that I "forgive them for they know not what they do", but it does not mean I allow them to trample over my human dignity any longer.

Our parents are sick people, and their recovery is their responsibility. If they're not able to take responsibility for their lives, that is their choice.

Our parents have the power to choose their own lives, and our acknowledgement (and letting go) of this is "honor". We "honor" their dignity as human beings, even when they cannot "honor" our dignity as human beings.

I am to honor my parents. Period. This verse does not carry the 'in the Lord' qualification, it is a new statement. But what is honor? Lack of disrespect.... I've been able (at least some) to fulfill this with politeness on the phone when required, no more screaming at them for their "crimes against me", etc etc. They know what they are - the Lord will deal with them. (Romans 12:19 "It is mine to avenge, I will repay.")

And if there's any doubt where to draw the line, there's Col 3:23 "And in all you do - do it as to the Lord".

Just my take.

Mmmm, I'm wondering if this is perhaps what he meant when he said "honor"...

I interpreted "honor" as respecting them, even when they aren't present (he mentioned not talking bad about them in front of others, etc, which, at the time, I also interpreted as I'm not supposed to tell people how they abused me, because that would be showing them in a bad light, and thus "dishonoring" them. Which is pretty much what my mother told me when I told her my father was molesting us - don't say such things! He's your father, you need to respect him!

I just don't know...

No offense, but I'll be direct. You father is a sicko and your mom was an enabler and a sicko and your pastor is full of shit for not bringing up the other truth. Run from this loser. I realize they are flesh and blood, but, dude they deserve no respect just your scorn. Hell, if they had been my "parents", they'd be six feet under. Best of luck to you.

_________________________
Phoenix

A guy opens the front door and sees a snail on his doorstep. He picks up the snail and throws it across the street in a neighbor's yard. A year later, the guy opens the front door and the same snail is on his doorstep. The snail says, "What the f*ck was that about?"

I don't believe telling others for you to heal is dishonoring your parents - you're doing it for your healing - it's not even against them in that regard. I also don't believe God would expect you to not report something if you saw abuse (or any crime).

Yes, thank you. That is true.

I guess I was just slightly triggered because of the similarity to my mother's reaction when I told her...

Thank you, everyone, for your insights. This pastor is (fortunately) not our regular pastor. At this stage I am considering making an appointment with our regular pastor, and asking him to help me understand this better. I have spoken to him about my past before, so I think he should be able to help me place everything in context.

I really want to understand what God expects from me...

But first I have to deal with the issues from my other thread. My T keeps telling me "one thing at a time", and I keep struggling to stick to that. So I'll take her advice for now. I'm sure God will understand if I postpone this for a week or two...

_________________________
I guess what I'm trying to sayIs whose life is it anyway because livin'Living is the best revengeYou can play-- Def Leppard

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