I wanted to start this thread off by thanking everyone in this community for the massive amount of help, friendliness to newcomers, and great information you pass on.

I have successfully, through the help of this forum and other sources, increased my base knowledge of lighter weight backpacking and making better gear choices.

With that….I have one of my last umbilical cords to sever but its the hardest one for me. I've been using a Copper Spur UL2 for the past several seasons. I have read through the forums extensively about tarp tents and the benefits, the cons, condensation, etc. As I sit here and look at my gear, how small and compact and light it has all become, at how little space it all takes, and then keep darting my eyes to that big orange tent bag, I get a sinking feeling.

I know I can get my base weight a full pound lighter if I let go of my dual walled tent and ground sheet. But I am super gun shy….Last year on the JMT I experienced 7 straight days of rain. One night a flash flood! My little tent held strong and kept me dry until the 8th day. On the 8th day it failed and the tub seeped water…but that's a story for another day (REI took it back and I got a new one-the same one to be precise).

Other reasons for my shyness- the unknown….I can handle anything..except for being miserable every night for 10-14 days this year (my long trip is in August).

I'm 6'"3 and tent floor length is a challenge with some of the smaller tents. I'm late to the game here if I decide to move to a tarp tent this summer due to manufacturing reasons.

So in nutshell: I have looked at SMD Lunar DUO/ Tarp Tent Double Rainbow/ and many others.

I am a BD Z-pole user….

I know asking on a ultra light forum this kinda question is inevitable in its answer…but I'm interested in the process.

Personally, I think a properly pitched tarp is significantly more storm-worthy than most 3 season tents. Why not try a few incremental steps to see if you like it? Try sleeping with your Copper Spur with the bug netting left open one night. Then try sleeping with it pitched with just the fly and no inner. That's pretty close to being under a tarp. You'll probably like it.

We sound a lot alike. The solution for me was to keep the fairly heavy Copper Spur UL1 for poor weather and use a cuben tarp/nano net for good weather. I get the best of both worlds that way. Keep in mind my trips are rarely over 3-4 days so I can get a pretty accurate weather report and pick the right shelter.

For longer trips where that is difficult to do, I suggest starting with one of the larger tarps. The extra coverage is so nice when the weather gets nasty, and will only cost you 2oz or so. I get a little claustrophobic in heavy rain with a smaller tarp.

I concur on going with the larger tarp at first. You can easily make one yourself inexpensively, or simply go with a blue tarp from the hardware store (a bit heavy, but really cheap for a test, and you can use it at home for something else). As someone noted, think of it as the outer wall of a double-wall tent that keeps the tent underneath dry.

With a larger tarp you can pin one edge down to the ground in a real blow, or even both edges, just make sure the ends don't point into the wind. But even that is not a problem if you go with a Jardine-style tarp end closure (aka a "bat wing"), but I think you'll have to make it since I haven't seen any on the market.

I too had to get over the psychological barrier of not being entirely enclosed. But now we like the more open feeling, having plants under the tarp with you, ease of setup, large covered area, ability to easily and safely cook underneath the tarp, etc.

Slowly build up your confidence with tarps in your backyard in inclement weather, try it again on a short trip with easy bail-out options, and then move on to bigger badder trips.

Borah Gear and BPWD both sell 8×11 tarps at reasonable prices. The biggest trick imo is making sure that water won't pool where you are sleeping. I once pitched a tent in a difficult to perceive bowl and woke up in a pool.

Shawn Peterson, I've gone through my share of heavy rains, in fact at times I have actively sought out heavy rains to go backpacking, since nobody else goes during those times, which is also by the way why I wouldn't think for a second to use a floorless tarp in any situation where heavy weather is likely.

You've already found what a bathtub floor does, trust your experience, I trust mine, I would never head out in cold weather in winter where there may be limited site selection which exclude the luxury of finding the perfect spot where water will not pool without a real tent with a real floor. Not so easy to do when the rain is driving and it's near freezing and you just want to get that tent up as quickly as possible. I'd use a tarp with net screen in certain climates I think, just not real rain situations.

Tarp tent type tents with built in bathtub floors cover a very wide range, for example, you can have Zpacks build you a large hexamid with a built in bathtub floor, almost all tarptents use a built in bathtub floor, and the trekking pole supported ones weigh only about a pound and a half, that's 1.5 pounds less than your copper spur 2 if I read it right. I believe the main obstacle you'd hit is the zpoles, most trekking pole supported tents should have some adjustment in the trekking poles to tension things, though maybe not all need that, I don't know.

Every time I look at serious rain areas like Northern Europe, and look at the tents they are making, I see basically some type of double walled tunnel tent, for very good reason, sitting in a typical mesh edged tarptent in driving cold rain strikes me as a fairly miserable way to hunker down in cold rainy climates, but each to their own I guess.

Using tarps is like using anything else with backpacking gear. It takes much more skill and knowledge to use it successfully. I just returned from 2 weeks along the NPT with rain 12 out of days. I just used a shaped tarp or slept in shelters.

One of the bigest concerns I had was with the bugs. Heat dictated light weight clothing. Wet meant that mosquitoes would bite right through it…DEET & permethrin were no real help. A fire at night would chase most bugs away, but the rain would put it out in short order. This was something that was not mentioned. Bug killer, sprayed on a bandana and kept in a plastic bag, lasted about 10 days. Fleas, no-seeums, deerflies, blackflies, etc are killed by hanging this near the peak. DEET on your head and hair and permethrin on your sleeping cloths will kill most ticks/repel most mosquitoes at night. ALWAYS keep your bag/sleeping cloths dry.

Open tarps are no different from shelters. They supply a dry roof. You need to select your ground carefully to not get flooded is the only difference. A mound or higher area that can be covered is the first requirement for staying dry. Under a larger pine tree works well, too.

Weight is perhaps the bigest reason to use a tarp. A 9' long shaped tarp that weighs about 14oz (16oz with line and stakes) and one 42" trekkng pole works OK for everything except winter camping. I have woken with puddles around me after 3+" of rain during a 2 hour lightening storm in 30-50mph winds. My bag was damp, though other gear was wet. Putting a cloths line up kept the cloths out of the water (though it does not dry that way.) I will say is that tarps work.

Hammocks have a cult following and you'll only get the tip of the iceberg here imo. Check out Hammockforums.net as well. I've spent my 2013 backpacking allowance on ground dwelling gear as I'm doing the Wonderland this year and hammocks are a no-go. Next year will be all about getting my butt off the groud again. I'm a light sleeper but there is something about sleeping in a hammock that has a narcotic effect on me.

I have yet to read it but this book gets great reviews from reputable hammock hangers.

I'd say spend 100 bucks on an 8×10 sil flat tarp from a good (but not super-expensive) manufacturer (Locus, Yama, Oware; not MLD). With a tarptent you'll save 16-20 oz off your UL2, likely with less functional space and significantly worse condensation problems. Keep the UL2 for bug season and especially rainy trips. It's a better fully-enclosed shelter. Embrace the tarp learning experience for everything else. Don't use a bivy. Don't get one with beaks. Only use a groundsheet if you must (i.e. if you use a fragile inflatable mat). The bar for site selection will be higher. The bar for conditions assessment will be higher. Yes, eventually you'll pitch it too high, get surprised by weather, and get a bit wet. Yes, you'll underestimate the bugs and have to sleep in your headhet occasionally. Yes, you might not sleep as well the first few times out. You'll be paid back with 360 degree views during light montane rains, midnight aurora shows without getting out of bed, and a better eye for sites and conditions.

I think my experience last year with the 7 days of rain has me punchy…..I couldn't imagine being under a floor less tarp in last years weather…and it wasn't expected weather…it was supposed to be typical Sierra afternoon possible thunder storms.

I might do what another poster suggested above and try it for a few nights in the backyard ….$100.00 is bad to try….better than $500!

Make one out of polyethylene. 2 mil is a bit fragile but light weight. 3 mil a little heavier. Painters tarp from big box store. $10 for 10' x 25' which is enough for a couple tarps. And $5 for Mason's twine which is enough for many tarps.

I asked because 130cm is too high for many pole supported shelters, otherwise the Notch could have been a good contender.
(I have set a couple of shelters using the new version with the adjustable bit. They work)
I am not a fan of having poles set sideways to change the hight, but you could get substitute poles for a couple of ounces each.
You would fit inside a Rainbow/Double Rainbow.

Back in the day I used to use tarps a good bit, cheap woven poly tarps and G.I. nylon ponchos!
This was because I was cheap and didn't want to carry a heavy tent when going solo.
I still play around with home made polycryo tarps.

But these days I've gotten soft and simply prefer a tarptent. I have a 2 pound Squall 2 for my solo tent and a 2-1/2 pound Rainshadow 2 for my wife and I that is simply a palace.
I figure that instead of a tarp, ground cloth, mosquito head net, and possibly a bivy bag a feller could simply take something like a TT Contrail at about 25 ounces, or go whole hog with a Squall 2 like I do at about 34 ounces and have lots of room.

The difference in weight isn't to bad and the dry, easy to set up bug free space can really save yer sanity!

So ya might find a TT to be a good in between step between a double wall freestanding tent and just an open tarp. I did!

Ah, heck! All those shelters are 2.5 or more times expensive than a tarp. Tarps are good for learning. He's probably not going to die from sleeping under a tarp. I don't use a flat tarp much any more, but it would be good to go back and review Dave's first post about the learning to be gained from using a tarp.