ALAN DERSHOWITZ: I don't think it's the NRA power. I think it's people like us, not the two of us, but Americans who care about guns aren't doing enough to make our case to the public.

Because we think it's their issue. We've given that issue over to them because they have lobbyists they pay money. But in the end, the people determine the outcome. And it's wrong, and it's racist and it's bigoted to say that guns are quintessentially American. They may represent a part of America, but my grandparents who came over from poland and live in Brooklyn, New York, are just as much Americans --people who came over from Ireland, people who came over from Italy -- we're just as much Americans. We live on the coast and we have a right to define the America we want to live in and we have the obligation to win politically, to vote for people to put gun control as a high priority.

They put it as a number one priority. We who favor gun control put it as a 16th or 17th priority. So it's our fault, not the NRA's fault.

We live on the coast and we have a right to define the America we want to live in and we have the obligation to win politically, to vote for people to put gun control as a high priority.

So this idiots belief, and many on the left, feel that if they can get the voters to agree with gun control, they will disarm all of us law abiding Americans.

Well, expired race card or not, this isn't going to fly with the millions of Americans who will simply refuse to disarm no matter what proclamation comes from our government. If the time to fight for our rights has come, then let's get it on and get it over with. Time to liquidate those who want to take away our constitutional rights.

Well you know they have lost the debate when they throw
the race card out there. They don’t have a leg to stand
on and they know it so they go racist.
Liberalism is just a fancy name for low life scum.

14
posted on 01/07/2013 9:12:07 PM PST
by Slambat
(The right to keep and bear arms. Anything one man can carry, drive or pull.)

Why is it, as Alan would have it, that people come here from Poland, and Ireland, and Afghanistan, and Kenya, and and and ... and, having left those hellholes, they want to change the USA into another hellhole like the one they left? I am sick of this mindset.

How about our immigrants and their offspring look at the USA, since they CHOSE to come here, often at great personal sacrifice and peril, and think about what it is that made the country work before their arrival, and what made it so desirable vs the hellhole they left?

ANY so-called ‘jew’ whose family ‘came over’ from, of all places on earth, POLAND, and insists on gun control is a masochist, a lunatic, a traitor to his blood, (which I have stated many times before about dershowitz,) or worse. Much worse.

They may represent a part of America, but my grandparents who came over from poland and live in Brooklyn, New York,

I'll betcha a C note, his grandparents wished they had guns to defend themselves before they left Poland. Instead, they were fortunate enough to be able to retreat to America. But after America, there is no place to retreat to. That is why smart Americans will not allow their primary means of self-defense to be easily taken away from them. We've seen what happened in Europe when that was done: the lucky ones escaped while the unlucky ones ended up in gulags or, worse, in ovens.

I cannot understand why Dershowitz would want to make it easier for some future tyrannical government to herd people into the boxcars. He should study some history. Fairly recent history, actually, relatively speaking...

“we have a right to define the America we want to live in and we have the obligation to win politically, to vote for people to put gun control as a high priority.”

Does this 0.o anybody but me? That’s called infiltration- & maybe a reach, but to some extent, subversion, too. Professor Dershowitz has the same opportunity (& probably far greater means, too) his parents had to move to a country that is more agreeable to him. It isn’t like there aren’t any suitable alternatives. He grew up here. Why doesn’t he love America that has been good to him?
Mexican nationals invading the US & Muslims invading Europe come to mind because they are obsessed with changing those countries into what *they* want & damn the citizens. They don’t want to assimilate. They want to take over.

(This is the part of ‘spreading democracy’ that I think gets us into trouble. It inherently opens the door to those who think that turnabout is fair play. And that’s hard to argue. It’s different than defense against being attacked or threatened)

Alan, were it not for free men with guns, your whole family would have gone into the ovens, and they would have been put there by a government in the same position you wish to place ours in. What don’t you get?

25
posted on 01/07/2013 10:01:37 PM PST
by Trod Upon
(Civilian disarmament is the precursor to democide.)

Like many liberals, Dershowitz seems ignorant of the details of the Revolution and of the thinking of the Framers of the Constitution and of the debate over ratification. In Federalist No. 46, James Madison refuted the idea that a federal standing army could overcome the well-armed American people, organized through local militias and supported by their state and local governments. As Madison reasoned:

"Besides the advantage of being armed, which the Americans possess over the people of almost every other nation, the existence of subordinate governments, to which the people are attached, and by which the militia officers are appointed, forms a barrier against the enterprises of ambition, more insurmountable than any which a simple government of any form can admit of. Notwithstanding the military establishments in the several kingdoms of Europe, which are carried as far as the public resources will bear, the governments are afraid to trust the people with arms." (emphasis supplied).

For Americans of that era, the effectiveness of a well-armed populace as an essential guarantee of freedom was a self-evident lesson of the Revolution. Without the American people being armed, there could not have been a Revolution, or at least not a successful one.

As it was, the lack of a Bill of Rights was a potent criticism by opponents of the proposed Constitution, with a guarantee of the right to keep and bear arms frequently cited as needed. To secure ratification, leading advocates agree to offer a bill of rights in the first Congress under the Constitution.

As proposed and adopted, the bill of rights therefore included a guarantee of the right of the people to keep and bear arms. In that manner, Madison's reasoning and popular opinion of the time was incorporated into the bill of rights.

Another point that Dershowitz is willfully ignorant on is the original basis for gun control in this country. The gun control movement was specifically started with the intent of keeping free blacks defenseless from attacks by whites. I challenge Dershowitz to site examples of post-Civil War laws which were passed with a more racist intent than gun control laws were. Nothing approaches it - not segregation, not Jim Crow laws, not even anti-miscegenation laws. Simply put, nothing is as disgraceful as the attempt to disarm fellow citizens from defending themselves. A son of Jewish emigrants from Poland should know this better than most.

The Jews of the Warsaw Ghetto were “dying” for guns, any kind, any caliber, to fight the Nazis. Though doomed, these Jews decided to fight evil to the end.

I must point out that a leader of the Free Polish Army,Stefan Korbonski, was the only Polish military leader (that I know of), who smuggled arms into the Warsaw Ghetto to give the people there a chance to fight. He was named a “Righteous Gentile” by the Yad Vashem Memorial organization in Israel, its highest honor that they could give to someone who was not Jewish.

Stefan was a friend of mine, and ranks up there with Polish diplomat, Jan Karksi, another “Righteous Gentile” as true heroes of Poland during WW2.

They are both blessed and honored memories to we Jews.

PS: I had relatives killed in Lemberg, Belzec CC, and Auschwitz Concentration Camp. Also had an acquaintance who made Molotov cocktails in Milo 20 before she, as a teenager, was made to leave the Warsaw Ghetto before the fighting (She ended up in a German slave labor camp as did her brother - Sachsenhausen CC, across the street). Both survived the war and she became a nurse in New Jersey.

History is full of heroes, too many unsung, but worthy of mentioning whenever possible.

So much of my family, German, Lithuanian, and Polish were almost completely wiped out. People on FR don’t understand why I get so ‘touchy’ when they lump all Jews together when speaking of the leftist dem jews who I don’t even consider blood at all.

44
posted on 01/08/2013 12:08:24 AM PST
by MestaMachine
(Sometimes the smartest man in the room is standing in the midst of imbeciles.)

PS
To this very day, as quirky as it might sound, I have absolutely refused to enter, let alone ride in, or drive, a volkswagen. I don’t use bayer aspirin or anything made by bayer. Have never bought a ford. A few other little things like that.

45
posted on 01/08/2013 12:16:56 AM PST
by MestaMachine
(Sometimes the smartest man in the room is standing in the midst of imbeciles.)

I spend all day reading the latest news/opinion about mostly serious subjects happening now, both from liberals and pseudo Republicans and sometimes a conservative gets in there and I switch back and forth between CNN and Fox - I include all sides so I'll know what the enemy is thinking.

As a result regarding gun control, I am seriously worried Hussein's gun grab will be just the first “control” law and others will follow until we have to physically fight to keep our weapons.

In this first law, magazines are surely going to be limited to 10 bullets which is why there are few magazines left in stores now. A laser gives the shooter an advantage and I wouldn't be surprised if they are outlawed, too. If you want that laser, you should get it now even if you don't have the gun yet. Remember it must be the laser made for that specific gun.

Matt Bracken was exactly right. First they limit the kind of guns one can have and limit the accessories to add to the guns. Next is registration, then they are confiscated and the death toll starts growing. It has worked that way in every country that took guns from all citizens (except the bad guys keep theirs.)

The citizens of Australia gave all their guns to the government and they were all destroyed. Now, they are being killed in their houses and law enforcement can't stop it as there are too many. The citizens have added multiple locks on their houses and put in cameras but they have no weapon and they are terrified. I saw a film of the guns being picked up by a front end loader to be dumped and burned and saw/heard the citizens talk about their fear of being killed in their houses.

Not everyone lives in an urban environment. I live a mile from National Wilderness. I have bear and cougars wander through my yard. Yes, they are black bears, but that hardly makes me racist. People would be fools here if they did not have a couple of guns.

My ancestors settled in Maine in 1626. They had guns too. In fact, they took their guns with them when they fought at the plains of Abraham in the Indian Wars and in the American Revolutionary War.

My 93 year old father has hunting guns and a nickel plated 45 - the one he was issued as an officer in the Navy. Pretty sure he had it with him at Pearl Harbor.

Guns are part of my American culture which has very deep roots. I consider further gun control legislation as a declaration of war against my culture.

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