and you obviously didnt read mine, i said ive absolutely no problem with people who deserve these benefits, getting them so get off your high horses and read what i said, read it again cheery before you gob off

measuring intelligence by exam results is like measuring digestion by turd length

chris.ph wrote:and you obviously didnt read mine, i said ive absolutely no problem with people who deserve these benefits, getting them so get off your high horses and read what i said, read it again cheery before you gob off

1. I did.2. You said you had no problem with people who deserve benefits, but you also seem to think that you can say who deserves them.3. Who's on a high horse here?4. Don't tell me to shut up and especially not in that kind of language.

at absolutely no point did i say who deserves benefits, wise up and dont try to read things into things that are blatantly not there and saying that i was making personal attacks on people on this site is just a lie.think before you name names and making personal attacks or is that just beyond you.

measuring intelligence by exam results is like measuring digestion by turd length

cheery_j. wrote:I had really hoped that we had finished with this, but no! Somebody else feels the need to generalize and insult.

Yes, you're a very tough guy, Chris. Well done!Did you actually bother to read the posts of those people here who told about their own situation and the reasons why they can't/or couldn't work? Would you call Tony or Jan or Batty scroungers to their faces in real life? Because that's exactly what you're doing here.

No, he probably wouldn't because he's known us for a long time on here and we know him and his 'call a spade whatever' ways

chris.Proper-Hero wrote:i said ive absolutely no problem with people who deserve these benefits, getting them so get off your high horses and read what i said, read it again cheery before you gob off

Chris - it's not what you've said it's how you said it...

I knew what you were on about so I didn't post even though I did feel like you were being too generalist (as Alanz was) because I know how much you've gone through and admire the way you've carried on living your life the way you're happiest with. Proper Hero isn't a snide, it's genuine. You're remarkable and admirable and you also have no brakes and can't always express yourself too calmly so, knowing this I kept out of it but when this happens

Batty wrote:I can't be arsed to post again on this subject though. I feel increasingly depressed with people insulting and abusing anyone who is disabled - purely because they themselves can cope!

it can't be left alone because that's more or less the case with me.

So here's the whole of it so everyone can understand why I still understand Chris' PoV and why it's only part of the true picture. On paper I could work in a mainstream job (like a call centre) because physically I can sit and lift things and I have a brain and reasonably good people skills - when I'm well. For me the COPD and my lack of mobility are not the problem. It's the clinical depression. I take meds that some people only need to take for weeks or months or even a few years and it helps them recover. Depression is a 'manageable' disease for some, even if they've a chronic kind like Tony and myself have. My actual problem so far as working for someone else again is concerned is that I'd have to work with people. The cause of my numerous breakdowns were in the main through being in the wrong job, even though the last was one I was qualified for and pretty good at when I was using my best skills. When I wasn't it was having to work with absolutist concepts that meant people were constantly compartmentalised - put in neat little boxes with rigid rules (called guidelines but hah! to that! ) on performance and procedures that literally drove me nuts. I was a manager and I supervised other people I knew couldn't do the job they were doing as well as I could and the people over me couldn't do it at all, but they were the ones who had the influence and the final word which is why I went into management to have more of a say in how the job was done. It broke me and come the end I had hassle with my team as well as the rest of the management chain because I had such frustration and stress with 'how things had to be done'.

I always meant to go back to work when I was 'better', but what's better? Knowing office culture and the way it was heading in this country, the thought of going back to the civil service literally made me sick and, having performed to the top level that I could have reached already, going into a less specific line of work that involved 'form filling' of any kind also filled me with dread, whether or not I was a manager. I had recognised by then that I'd only be repeating the cycle if I went back to an office and sooner or later I'd fall down once more and it was getting harder and harder to get back up again... So I decided to try and go freelance as a graphic/web designer, but doing that and having 'sell' myself was something I wasn't cut out for either so I went on incapacity and did the occasional print job when I could get one, which never paid enough, regularly enough to affect my benefit. Then I took my work pension early which is pretty low because I took it out too soon - basically I get that and my benefit still, which I'm legally entitled to, in part because of my illnesses and also because I paid national insurance for just over 30 years.

Even so I still work - I just don't get paid for it. I'm the chair of our local Patient Participation Group (Launceston only has one NHS med practice) and currently I'm involved in a pilot scheme for a People's Commissioning Board as part of the new CCG system with the NHS. I'm spending approximately half my time daily including weekends with something to do with those 2 groups, including meetings and sometimes I hate doing that and the petty-mindedness of some of my fellow 'participators' but I carry on because it's something I think is important and I'm anyway used to working with 'jobsworths' so it's mostly water off a duck's back. Some of the rest of my time I'm doing secretarial and promotional work with a Breathe Easy group (support group with the British Lung Foundation) using some of my graphic skills. So I'm not a lazy bar steward either, except in the sense that life exhausts me so much most of the time I'm rarely out of bed before noon and have finally trained the housemate not to talk to me except at mealtimes because I don't like talking too much at all away from this forum and my own

I function as well as I'm prepared to socially, which for me includes work and it's this that keeps me from finding a 'proper' job because talking to people in general, even ones I know very well is hard. Too hard at times but I try even so. So Chris, I love and honour you mate but just because you can carry on with what you have to contend with doesn't mean everyone can because there may be more than that wrong with them and you might not be able to 'see' it. I agree there are people out there who don't 'deserve' to receive their benefit and dodge work and they should be identified and suffer for that but compartmentalising people without knowing all the facts isn't a good way to sort the sheep from the goats.

Let's have a little charity here - people have a right to an opinion and some people on here have earned the right to say what they're saying even it's a bit too rough and raw around the edges so let's not get too personal

Anyway i'm glad to be back and thanks for the comments , it's a touchy subject best put it to bed, Let's change the subject and talk about something else....Wow two Gueese just flew past my window at work, I'm on the Ground Floor and they were really flying low for Gueese

Agents from the Australian Security Intelligence Organisation and the Australian Defence Force -- essentially, the country's spies -- are exempted. But due to an oversight, agents from a third spy agency, the Australian Secret Intelligence Service, are not.

Thus, according to the Commonwealth Work Health and Safety Act, they must wear bright yellow safety vests while skulking around on the job. "Full compliance could in some circumstances place people who work for the director-general of ASIS at risk and prejudice national security," admitted foreign affairs parliamentary secretary Richard Marles, urging Parliament to amend the law.

So it's not just the UK, then?

Some are born great, some achieve greatness and some have greatness thrust upon them.

The FBI received a tip that a Facebook user was seeking to pay for an assassination of someone in Cleveland, Ohio.

An agent posed as a hit man and corresponded online with the individual. The Facebook user, later identified as Meredith Lowell, 28, allegedly told the agent she wanted him to kill someone -- anyone -- who was wearing fur outside the Cleveland Heights-University Heights Public Library.

"I am paying you to kill one person wearing fur who is 12 or older (but hopefully at least 14 years, however 12 years old or older is fine)," Lowell allegedly wrote in a message.

The report also indicates Lowell wanted to be present for the killing so that she could hand out anti-fur industry literature.

A psychological report found her mentally incompetent to stand trial and not capable of being rehabilitated to competency, so the judge.................... freed her.

Some are born great, some achieve greatness and some have greatness thrust upon them.

Bouncy Castle wrote:Agents from the Australian Security Intelligence Organisation and the Australian Defence Force -- essentially, the country's spies -- are exempted. But due to an oversight, agents from a third spy agency, the Australian Secret Intelligence Service, are not.

Thus, according to the Commonwealth Work Health and Safety Act, they must wear bright yellow safety vests while skulking around on the job. "Full compliance could in some circumstances place people who work for the director-general of ASIS at risk and prejudice national security," admitted foreign affairs parliamentary secretary Richard Marles, urging Parliament to amend the law.

So it's not just the UK, then?

What. ASIS is basically our MI6/CIA. So it would be rare that they would be on the job inside Australia. And possibly not often that they work inside the Commonwealth either. Anyway, in the right circumstances, a safety vest can help with cover.

Bouncy Castle wrote:The FBI received a tip that a Facebook user was seeking to pay for an assassination of someone in Cleveland, Ohio.

An agent posed as a hit man and corresponded online with the individual. The Facebook user, later identified as Meredith Lowell, 28, allegedly told the agent she wanted him to kill someone -- anyone -- who was wearing fur outside the Cleveland Heights-University Heights Public Library.

"I am paying you to kill one person wearing fur who is 12 or older (but hopefully at least 14 years, however 12 years old or older is fine)," Lowell allegedly wrote in a message.

The report also indicates Lowell wanted to be present for the killing so that she could hand out anti-fur industry literature.

A psychological report found her mentally incompetent to stand trial and not capable of being rehabilitated to competency, so the judge.................... freed her.

Hopefully to be put into a [EFF!]ing mental ward. But personally, I think she should have stood trial.

What is the age of consent in the US? It doesn't seem to be implying that he's done anything illegal. If he wants to have sex with men, and they want to have sex with him, what's the problem? Why should his career need to be in jeopardy? As for acting like a father to this young man, he sent a car to pick him up and take him to a hotel for sex. Sounds pretty straight forward to me, and not very father-like at all.

What's up with this glass? Excuse me? Excuse me? This is my glass? I don't think so. My glass was full! And it was a bigger glass!