WSJ: Next-gen iPhone will have 'around the world' LTE functionality

A Wall Street Journal report on Friday claims Apple's upcoming iPhone will boast global 4G LTE support, a function that will no doubt make the next-generation handset more desirable for international jet setters who crave fast data speeds.

Citing people familiar with Apple's plans, the WSJ notes the next-gen iPhone will boast compatibility with 4G LTE networks in the U.S., Europe and Asia, though the functionality may not be available to all countries and carriers at launch.

Analysts and pundits alike have speculated that the new iPhone, tentatively being called "iPhone 5," will be able to operate on worldwide LTE networks, a feature that rivals like Samsung have recently implemented in their latest smartphones.

Apple released its first LTE-equipped product with the third-generation iPad, however the device was only compatible with Verizon and AT&T in the U.S., and Bell Canada, Rogers Communications in Canada. The New iPad caused a small fracas in Australia, however, as Apple advertised the tablet as being "4G" despite not being compatible with the country's existing high-speed networks.

Samsung said if iPhone has LTE, they'll sue. Guess Samsung has their Lawyers in the bullpen warming up, but they better send in the 'Relief' lawyers as the lineup the last time lost the ball game. But Apple will hit it out of the park!
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Ten years ago, we had Steve Jobs, Bob Hope and Johnny Cash. Today we have no Jobs, no Hope and no Cash.

Unless we're talking about the homegrown TD-LTE then LTE is the same in standard across the globe. What isn't standard are the operating bands that LTE uses. LTE in the iPad (3) has the right LTE for Australia and Europe, but it likes the right operating bands, which require different HW.

I've mentioned many times this year the potential issues with this and wondered if Apple would finally have to launch multiple iPhones for different markets because of the operating bands, or if Qualcomm and Apple were able to work out a way for many (at least 6) power amps and other chips to exist together on a single Gobi chip for LTE.

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Unless we're talking about the homegrown TD-LTE then LTE is the same in standard across the globe. What isn't standard are the operating bands that LTE uses. LTE in the iPad (3) has the right LTE for Australia and Europe, but it likes the right operating bands, which require different HW.
I've mentioned many times this year the potential issues with this and wondered if Apple would finally have to launch multiple iPhones for different markets because of the operating bands, or if Qualcomm and Apple were able to work out a way for many (at least 6) power amps and other chips to exist together on a single Gobi chip for LTE.

Serious dumb question: why does a different band need a different power amp, rather than just a different modulator or whatever?

Serious dumb question: why does a different band need a different power amp, rather than just a different modulator or whatever?

Serious dumb answer: I don't know. I only know that there have been different power amps (from Triquent for 3G?) that have associated with different operating bands. I'm hoping this is no longer the case and they will use a chip that can adjust the frequency for various markets so we can finally get past this. It's great that LTE is so well adopted going forward but without a simpler way to support all those operating bands it's still not going to be pretty.

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I've mentioned many times this year the potential issues with this and wondered if Apple would finally have to launch multiple iPhones for different markets because of the operating bands, or if Qualcomm and Apple were able to work out a way for many (at least 6) power amps and other chips to exist together on a single Gobi chip for LTE.

Could they be using the same Qualcomm chipset as Nokia with their new Lumia 920?

It provides:

LTE 800

LTE 900

LTE 1800

LTE 2100

LTE 2600

That covers most of the current LTE deployments except the US/Canada. You'd need to add 2100/1700 and 700 for US support. Therefore I'd venture a guess that they'll release two different devices if they want LTE worldwide. One with the iPad chipset and another with the world (excluding NA) chipset for LTE. True worldwide connectivity would then be provided by the WCDMA chipset.

Like you, I don't believe we're at the level where we could ship a device with all the above mentioned frequencies in one device. If they do ship a device with all those bands (maybe without the oddball 900), that would be a positive surprise and a first time Apple would be pushing the boundaries of the actual physical layer of 2G/3G/4G.

Could they be using the same Qualcomm chipset as Nokia with their new Lumia 920?

It provides:

LTE 800
LTE 900
LTE 1800
LTE 2100
LTE 2600

That covers most of the current LTE deployments except the US/Canada. You'd need to add 2100/1700 and 700 for US support. Therefore I'd venture a guess that they'll release two different devices if they want LTE worldwide. One with the iPad chipset and another with the world (excluding NA) chipset for LTE. True worldwide connectivity would then be provided by the WCDMA chipset.

Like you, I don't believe we're at the level where we could ship a device with all the above mentioned frequencies in one device. If they do ship a device with all those bands (maybe without the oddball 900), that would be a positive surprise and a first time Apple would be pushing the boundaries of the actual physical layer of 2G/3G/4G.

Penta-band is certainly better than the dual-band LTE the current iPad has.

They will have to support different LTE bands than the Lumia 920. The iPad has 700 and 2100 for AT&T. The Verizon model has 700 (they couldn't even get 3 bands on the same iPad earlier this year) but I think those are different operating bands within the 700MHz frequency band, but I'm not certain.

Amazon's announcement yesterday mentioned some homegrown chipset that had deca-band support. Now they talked about LTE but I'm not sure if they meant that all 10 bands are to LTE or just the different bands across EDGE, UMTS, and LTE, which the current iPad already exceeds.

It's hard to believe Apple would have a different iPhone for each market but it's finally time to introduce LTE now that the 3rd gen LTE chips (2nd gen Gobi LTE chips) are here. Tech doesn't always line up the way we want it so if they have to do a split for a year or two i could see it, but I'm hoping and guessing that won't be the case.

edit: Here is what I mean by operating bands. It's a bit confusing but you get an idea about the complexity and range for carriers and countries.

I have a bad feeling about this introduction. A somewhat bigger screen, LTE that may or may not work world-wide--is that all there is? I know that the 4S was initially met with skepticism yet was still a big success; but as much as I like Apple products, and I'm sure this will be a good phone, I feel this iPhone is more catch-up than leading-the-way. I hope I'm wrong.

Originally Posted by waybacmac
I have a bad feeling about this introduction. A somewhat bigger screen, LTE that may or may not work world-wide--is that all there is? I know that the 4S was initially met with skepticism yet was still a big success; but as much as I like Apple products, and I'm sure this will be a good phone, I feel this iPhone is more catch-up than leading-the-way. I hope I'm wrong.

Apparently everyone has forgotten how the 4S was the fastest phone on the market at launch. And how it sold more than every iPhone before it combined. Despite being "the exact same phone as last year".

Apparently everyone has forgotten how the 4S was the fastest phone on the market at launch. And how it sold more than every iPhone before it combined. Despite being "the exact same phone as last year".

The world moves on though. The Galaxy S 3 is now the best selling phone, and that's just one Android phone out of a choice of hundreds.

For Apple to finally support LTE outside of America (I realise it must be a shock for Apple to discover there are actually other countries in the world) would obviously be a plus, but over the past year larger screens have become standard. When I compare my iPhone 4 to a current Android phone it looks like a toy, so tiny and yet so fat. If rumours are to be believed the i5 won't have NFC, which just seems bizarre. Does nobody in Apple ever travel to Japan? Do they not realise how big a deal NFC is there?

I'm sure the iPhone 5 will sell well, but nobody stays on top forever, at least not without trying very hard, and Apple have sadly gone from leading the smart phone world (in terms of innovation) to playing perpetual catch-up. They've become complacent.

"Samsung, long recognized as a devices company, invested in network and infrastructure developments well ahead of the curve, and has emerged as a leading 4G patent holder in several key categories. Interestingly, Apple, one of Samsung’s key competitors, holds few 4G patents, and currently licenses 4G capabilities for its new iPad. With Apple’s relatively lower patent protection in 4G, and Samsung’s dominance, the marketplace may well shift."

"Samsung is at the forefront of 4G-LTE domain with significant number of patents, including seminal patents. It leads the core 4G-LTE technology that relate to Data Transfer Rate, Power Management and Spectral Efficiency." Who keeps saying the Koreans don't know how to innovate?

"Apple has minimal patents in the 4G-LTE domain. In 2011, Apple joined hands with Ericsson, RIM, Microsoft and EMC to form a consortium and successfully bid for Nortel’s 6000 patents. This possibly includes complete ownership of Nortel’s 4G-LTE patents."

"Apple is currently using 4G-LTE technology from Qualcomm for its iPad 3 – a baseband processor which provides the LTE wireless data networking capability.
In March 2012, a day after the launch of iPad 3, Adaptix Inc. filed a patent infringement lawsuit against Apple in the field of OFDMA technology (related to 4G)."

The world moves on though. The Galaxy S 3 is now the best selling phone, and that's just one Android phone out of a choice of hundreds.

For Apple to finally support LTE outside of America (I realise it must be a shock for Apple to discover there are actually other countries in the world) would obviously be a plus, but over the past year larger screens have become standard. When I compare my iPhone 4 to a current Android phone it looks like a toy, so tiny and yet so fat. If rumours are to be believed the i5 won't have NFC, which just seems bizarre. Does nobody in Apple ever travel to Japan? Do they not realise how big a deal NFC is there?

I'm sure the iPhone 5 will sell well, but nobody stays on top forever, at least not without trying very hard, and Apple have sadly gone from leading the smart phone world (in terms of innovation) to playing perpetual catch-up. They've become complacent.

Your tearful concerns have been dutifully noted. 😭

Tim Cook is gay, believes in climate change, and cares deeply about racial equality. Deal with it (and please spare us if you can't).

Apparently everyone has forgotten how the 4S was the fastest phone on the market at launch. And how it sold more than every iPhone before it combined. Despite being "the exact same phone as last year".

Um.. there were already LTE phones on the market when it was released last year, so it was hardly the fastest. It's nonsense fanboy posts like this that make anything you say hard to agree with.

The Galaxy S 3 is now the best selling phone, and that's just one Android phone out of a choice of hundreds.

EVen MS claimed the Zune was the best selling PMP when it first came out. Maybe you should review your data and see why only the month before the new iPhone is expected to launch that the current model iPhone stopped being the best seller and a new device was on top. I'm hopeful you can come to a rational conclusion.

Quote:

For Apple to finally support LTE outside of America (I realise it must be a shock for Apple to discover there are actually other countries in the world) would obviously be a plus, but over the past year larger screens have become standard. When I compare my iPhone 4 to a current Android phone it looks like a toy, so tiny and yet so fat. If rumours are to be believed the i5 won't have NFC, which just seems bizarre. Does nobody in Apple ever travel to Japan? Do they not realise how big a deal NFC is there?

Nice strawman about a company that does more revenue and profit outside the US. A company that long ago supported more languages in their OSes by default without requiring you to buy different versions with partially complete support.

Quote:

I'm sure the iPhone 5 will sell well, but nobody stays on top forever, at least not without trying very hard, and Apple have sadly gone from leading the smart phone world (in terms of innovation) to playing perpetual catch-up. They've become complacent.

"Nobody stays on top forever" is your reasoning as to why you think Apple will fail right now? How the **** to get from one stupid concept to the other? if you review history you'll see Apple has been destined to fail by people like you from the start.

Apple is foolish to buy NeXT. Apple is foolish to sell the iPod. Apple is foolish to offer an expensive model that was only NAND-based. Apple is foolish to create a phone when the market is so established. Apple is foolish for not offering a physical keyboard. Apple is foolish for creating a tablet that doesn't use Mac OS X.

In retrospect people like you always like to conceded Apple's achievements to some degree to make yourself seem fair "Yeah well, they did good then, but now it's all gone to hell." is what you and your ilk say over and over again and have yet to be correct. One day, in your lifetime, you may actually be correct, and with that one tiny victory your sad and pathetic comments will be forever recorded on the internet letting the world that you were wrong every... other... fucking... time you made this claim.

This bot has been removed from circulation due to a malfunctioning morality chip.

Originally Posted by Cash907
Um.. there were already LTE phones on the market when it was released last year, so it was hardly the fastest. It's nonsense fanboy posts like this that make anything you say hard to agree with.

Please show me where I said anything at all about cellular telephony.

Originally Posted by Cash907
No, wait, it's emotional fanboy comments like THIS that make it hard to take anything you say seriously. Way to one up yourself, Skil. It's a phone, for Christ's sake.. no need for slapping and/or kicking, proverbial or otherwise.

Of course there is. That's what companies do to one another. It's not my fault that you don't like the words appropriate to describe the scenario.

Galaxy becomes "best selling" phone 11 months after the former champion comes out. Hours later the announcement for the new iPhone event goes out, taking away not only all the interest in that story, but also its legitimacy, within just a few weeks. What can you call that other than a kick in the genitals? And don't get me started on how that court case of theirs turned out. Or how their upcoming lawsuit over LTE will turn out…

In retrospect people like you always like to conceded Apple's achievements to some degree to make yourself seem fair "Yeah well, they did good then, but now it's all gone to hell." is what you and your ilk say over and over again and have yet to be correct. One day, in your lifetime, you may actually be correct, and with that one tiny victory your sad and pathetic comments will be forever recorded on the internet letting the world that you were wrong every... other... fucking... time you made this claim.

I think this every time I read these trolls, but it is nice to see it put to print every now and again...

The number of patents is not the accurate measure. The importance of the patents is. From the analysis done on this front (and pointed out on this very forum a few times in the past), Nokia and Qualcomm hold the keys to the treasure chest. They together hold the largest share of the important patents. These two have cross-lisensed with each other allowing the other to resell and sue if needed from the other's portfolio. Apple is using Qualcomm's chipsets so I'd venture a guess they are pretty safe on the LTE front due to that, not due to the consortium.

In short, Samsung has a lot of patents, but not very important ones at that.

EVen MS claimed the Zune was the best selling PMP when it first came out. Maybe you should review your data and see why only the month before the new iPhone is expected to launch that the current model iPhone stopped being the best seller and a new device was on top. I'm hopeful you can come to a rational conclusion.
Nice strawman about a company that does more revenue and profit outside the US. A company that long ago supported more languages in their OSes by default without requiring you to buy different versions with partially complete support.
"Nobody stays on top forever" is your reasoning as to why you think Apple will fail right now? How the **** to get from one stupid concept to the other? if you review history you'll see Apple has been destined to fail by people like you from the start.
Apple is foolish to buy NeXT. Apple is foolish to sell the iPod. Apple is foolish to offer an expensive model that was only NAND-based. Apple is foolish to create a phone when the market is so established. Apple is foolish for not offering a physical keyboard. Apple is foolish for creating a tablet that doesn't use Mac OS X.
In retrospect people like you always like to conceded Apple's achievements to some degree to make yourself seem fair "Yeah well, they did good then, but now it's all gone to hell." is what you and your ilk say over and over again and have yet to be correct. One day, in your lifetime, you may actually be correct, and with that one tiny victory your sad and pathetic comments will be forever recorded on the internet letting the world that you were wrong every... other... fucking... time you made this claim.

Oh my, what a deeply unpleasant tirade of nastiness. The internet sadly brings out the very worst in people.

If you can possibly stay your unpleasantness for a few seconds, could you tell me which smart phone platform is currently in the lead? Is it iOS? It was my understanding that Android is currently quite far ahead. I realise that must be an uncomfortable fact, but a fact it is. So sorry.

I dread to think what rage I have summoned up, but if you could find it within yourself to hold back, I'd appreciate it.

Originally Posted by kotatsu
If you can possibly stay your unpleasantness for a few seconds, could you tell me which smart phone platform is currently in the lead? Is it iOS? It was my understanding that Android is currently quite far ahead. I realise that must be an uncomfortable fact, but a fact it is. So sorry.

Can you first tell me what that has to do with absolutely anything whatsoever that you said earlier?

You can stop pretending that Apple at any time had 90% smartphone marketshare or that any sort of "decrease" in marketshare has happened since its first announcement, thanks. We can see through that charade.

Bottom line is that whatever samsung or android or anyone else does, Apple have revolutionised the world with regards to interfacing with technology and while being mocked by people who spend a good chunk of their lives grappling with viruses, malware and fugly, clumsy, soul destroying OS's, they single handedly dragged the smartphone market into the 21st century and with their one hundred billion dollar booty, will no doubt continue to make the world a more pleasant place for the haters to live in.

The number of patents is not the accurate measure. The importance of the patents is. From the analysis done on this front (and pointed out on this very forum a few times in the past), Nokia and Qualcomm hold the keys to the treasure chest. They together hold the largest share of the important patents. These two have cross-lisensed with each other allowing the other to resell and sue if needed from the other's portfolio. Apple is using Qualcomm's chipsets so I'd venture a guess they are pretty safe on the LTE front due to that, not due to the consortium.

In short, Samsung has a lot of patents, but not very important ones at that.

Reread my post or the document I linked to. Samsung has the largest share of seminal patents. Samsung has more seminal patents than Nokia and Qualcomm combined.

Communication Reliability? Samsung 10, Nokia 1 & Qualcomm 4.

Power management? 16, 3 & 4.

Network Deployment? 16, 9 & 2

Data Transfer Rate? 451, 147 & 260

Spectra Efficiency? 678, 121 & 424

"Samsung, compared to its competitors, accelerated and increased its investments in 4G-LTE ahead of the curve (2001 – 2005)."

"While most of the companies have a similar trend in terms of filing patents, Samsung got its patents approved and granted by USPTO earlier than other players (2003 – 2005)."

"Qualcomm also saw a similar spike in number of patents granted during the period 2007 – 1010."
"Samsung continues to have a strong pipeline of pending applications with the patent office."

Reread my post or the document I linked to. Samsung has the largest share of seminal patents. Samsung has more seminal patents than Nokia and Qualcomm combined.

Communication Reliability? Samsung 10, Nokia 1 & Qualcomm 4.

Power management? 16, 3 & 4.

Network Deployment? 16, 9 & 2

Data Transfer Rate? 451, 147 & 260

Spectra Efficiency? 678, 121 & 424

And another detailed analysis dividing the patents into 5 tiers of relevance and defendability (instead of 2) shows that of Grade A patents:

Nokia: 13.7%

Qualcomm: 14.4%

Samsung: 9.9%

Based on novelty (should be well defendable):

Nokia: 18.9%

Qualcomm: 12.5%

Samsung: 12.2%

And since Nokia & Qualcomm have pooled their patents together, the figures become quite formidable against Samsung in the importance category: 28.1% vs. 9.9% and in the novelty category: 31.4 vs 12.2% should Samsung sue Apple, who is using Qualcomm tech.

And since Nokia & Qualcomm have pooled their patents together, the figures become quite formidable against Samsung in the importance category: 28.1% vs. 9.9% and in the novelty category: 31.4 vs 12.2% should Samsung sue Apple, who is using Qualcomm tech.

I'm not saying that Samsung doesn't have a lot of patents and a fair number of important ones, but the combo of Nokia and Qualcomm is quite formidable should a patent war ignite.

Why do you believe Nokia and Qualcomm are partnered and working towards the same goals? FWIW Nokia is still after Apple, placing another package of (F)RAND-pledged patents with a NPE to bring another IP infringement suit against Apple. Perhaps you've mistaken Qualcomm as Microsoft.

Why do you believe Nokia and Qualcomm are partnered and working towards the same goals? FWIW Nokia is still after Apple, placing another package of (F)RAND-pledged patents with a NPE to bring another IP infringement suit against Apple. Perhaps you've mistaken Qualcomm as Microsoft.

Not necessarily the same goals, but due to their cross licensing:: “In 2008, Nokia and Qualcomm entered into a new 15 year agreement, under the terms of which Nokia was granted a license to all Qualcomm’s patents for the use in Nokia mobile devices and Nokia Siemens Networks infrastructure equipment.” Thus, the company has complete access to an unrivaled 31.4% of the essential LTE patents", Qualcomm's position is pretty solid just like Nokia's. My understanding is, that Qualcomm likewise has access to the Nokia pool of LTE essential patents. That's two separate analysises claiming that Nok/Qual hold roughly 30% of LTE essential vs. Samsungs 10-12%.

Is the NPE case about LTE? Or something else? This discussion was about LTE essential patents and Samsung's possible lawsuit threat against Apple in the LTE space. I don't know if Qualcomm's licensing deal with Nokia in the LTE front protects Apple, but the potential is there. That's why I think (possibly wrongly) that Apple is relatively protected from Samsung, when it comes to LTE essential patents due to Qualcomms strong position via their own strong patents and their deal with the other LTE patent powerhouse - Nokia.

The article also discusses an even more interesting tidbit of mapping patents (Nokia and Microsoft apparently together hold most of the patents in the outdoor and especially indoor positioning space). Once the war on mapping gets afoot, it may be an interesting one to watch.

Yes, it includes Apple's use of 4G technologies in the infringement claims. Read the link I supplied for additional clarity.

The link didn't clarify too much as it only had patent numbers. Patentlyapple had a bit more detail as to what exactly those patent numbers mean. It seems to revolve around 3G state machines and general packet data transfer over cellular networks. At first glance not much LTE specific, but some seem to be broad enough to cover LTE as well.

An interesting detail was how Nok&MS sold patents to this patent suit company with interesting terms: The patents were cheap, but they must capitalize on the said patents, any money they get over the initial purchase price get split evenly between this company, MS and Nok. If there is no return of money to MS and Nok, then the patents automatically revert back to Nok and MS.

An interesting detail was how Nok&MS sold patents to this patent suit company with interesting terms: The patents were cheap, but they must capitalize on the said patents, any money they get over the initial purchase price get split evenly between this company, MS and Nok. If there is no return of money to MS and Nok, then the patents automatically revert back to Nok and MS.

Correct, and it's generally been overlooked. FOSSPATENTS (and Hill60 too IIRC) has called out Google for "loaning" patents to HTC for defensive counterclaims against Apple's IP infringement suit. This one is along the same lines since Core Wireless doesn't actually own the patents outright, but much more aggregious IMO since some of Nokia's SEP's are included. When I asked Florian about it he claimed he knew nothing about the company and didn't follow any NPE's. Convenient that Microsoft is a client of his isn't it?

It's hard to believe Apple would have a different iPhone for each market but it's finally time to introduce LTE now that the 3rd gen LTE chips (2nd gen Gobi LTE chips) are here. Tech doesn't always line up the way we want it so if they have to do a split for a year or two i could see it, but I'm hoping and guessing that won't be the case.

Well they did bring a different phone for each market. Now they have three different models.

2 GSM models (1 for North America, 1 for the rest)

1 CDMA model

Even the "rest of the world" model is limited to three bands which doesn't really cut it as 2600 is not there to be thought of as a world phone. Then again DC HSDPA is more than enough for most.