Tommen recast?

It looks as though King Joffrey’s little brother may be a lot older when we see him next on Game of Thrones.

According to our sources, the role of Prince Tommen Baratheon has been recast for season 4 and will now be played by Dean-Charles Chapman. Chapman starred in The Revolting World of Stanley Brown, appears in the upcoming film Before I Go To Sleep, and was seen most recently on The White Queen, playing Richard Grey. The choice of Chapman for Tommen may be surprising to some as he previously appeared on GoTplaying Martyn Lannister, one of the imprisoned squires killed by the Karstarks in season 3.

We have reached out to HBO for official confirmation of the casting.

Ours is the Fury: Chapman’s older age may better suit certain aspects of Tommen’s storyline going forward. Fans have often speculated Tommen might be recast, with Callum Wharry absent from the show since episode nine of season 2. Casual viewers are unlikely to remember or care that Chapman played a small role a year earlier, and I imagine the prince will look very different from the younger prisoner.

LOL wasn’t everyone who thought he’d be recast speculating it’d be as younger though? Funny. If he is Tommen, I find it believable that a kid by Lena and Nikolaj would look like him. Which reminds me that they got lucky, Maisie and Isaac look like they could be siblings.

I wonder if this has to do with the fact that Margaery is played by 31-year-old Natalie Dormer. If the former actor who played Tommen were still in the role, future story twists might have appeared too creepy since Dormer is old enough to be playing Tommen’s mother. This closes the age gap a bit, but the ick factor will still be there. This is why ND’s casting was such a poor choice. They should have found a teenage actress for her role (as well as other roles).

That’s exactly what I was thinking- the age difference was too great, it just looks creepy to have Margaery be engaged to a baby-faced Callum Wharry. Chapman’s older and he has slimmed out some and aged maybe a year from that headshot, from what I can tell.

So when Martyn Lannistet died he is reborn as Prince Tommen Baratheon. Lol if he is the one that spoke more(of the young lannister prisoners) then he seems like a pretty good actor. It makes sense because old Tommen actor didnt seem to have much screen presence. Barely heard him talk. Im sure they know what they are doing. Only 8 more months! (And maybe that long or less for next book)

Age aside i think Natalie Dormer is doing a fantastic job. She’s hot and really plays that sweet girl who is also manipulative really well. All the ages were upjumped because its just not possible. Besides she can easily pass for a teenager. On a side note, wondering if they will recast Rickon later seasons. I guess it depends on if they follow the book that way. Might be quite different.

haltwhogoesthere:
LOL wasn’t everyone who thought he’d be recast speculating it’d be as younger though? Funny. If he is Tommen, I find it believable that a kid by Lena and Nikolaj would look like him. Which reminds me that they got lucky, Maisie and Isaac look like they could be siblings.

True enough. That was frequently true on the original series also. The only time they felt the need to address it was when Lalla Ward took over as Romana in the story right after she had played a major supporting role in the last story of the previous season.

This is a really minor change, since Tommen wasn’t on screen much, and neither was the minor character the actor played.

I hope this isn’t true. Although Tommen becomes king he is still normally off screen (or page) in the book. I don’t think that Callum Wharry’s acting skills are an issue. And if a recast is necessary, then I wish that they would at least cast someone who hasn’t been in the show before. I think that it will be a bit jarring to see Dean-Charles Chapman dying in season 3 and see him pop up as a different character in season 4. Even more jarring than the Mountain’s recast (I still have unsullied friends that don’t understand that season 1 and season 2 mountains are the same person.

Yeah I know all about the Ian Whyte saga. And he played the giant too. This is a completely different situation, because the audience didn’t see his face when he was a White Walker or the Giant…it doesn’t cause confusion, unless you happen to stalk IMDB and know who plays characters below the prosthetics.

I guess it’s just a matter of opinion. While I enjoy Dormer in other roles, such as Anne Boleyn, I don’t find her convincing as Margaery. To me she looks her age and would have been a fantastic Cersei. As Margaery, she just comes off as very obvious and sneaky instead of sweet. Even GRRM said in a recent interview that her portrayal made the onscreen character older than his Margaery and smarter. He said ND!Margaery is what book!Margaery could possibly be like when she got older.

But the age thing isn’t just a criticism I have with ND and Margaery. The change in ages for Robb, Dany, Jon, and Gendry are also hurting their characters as well. With Dany and Jon, I can see casting a bit older so they can legally portray sex and violence. Though someone in their late teens would have done the job better than 20-somethings. But with Margaery, Robb, and Gendry, that wasn’t necessary since playing those characters didn’t require nudity until the show added it.

Hey everyone, this is a post and comment thread for all commenters, which means there needs to be SPOILER CODING! Please be considerate of the non-readers when discussing Natalie Dormer, and Margaery and Tommen’s engagement. Thanks!

Jarring if anyone even realizes. I think that they will make him look like old Tommen. He had about 45 seconds of screen time last season, and died. I bet not a single person would notice if they had not heard the news or knew about the recast.

Have you never seen siblings who aren’t exactly equal in the looks department? I know I have.

Also, I never thought much about the Margaery and Tommen marriage. As it wasn’t expected to be consummated until he was an appropriate age, I thought it was strange but not out of the ordinary in their world. It’s not unheard of for there to be a big age difference. Lysa and Jon Arryn, scumbagFrey and his wives, Myranda and her first husband (old enough to die while having sex with her, at least). I just kind of went with it. How the average viewer would react, I don’t know.

well, at least Martyn Lannister was his first cousin so they were indeed cast to look similar, and *in-universe* might look similar.

Even so….wow.

I mean, consider that Tommen had *no speaking lines in Season 1*, and only had speaking lines in TWO episodes of Season 2.

I wonder: has the TV series – which was otherwise willing to expand on minor characters – intentionally keeping Tommen and Myrcella out of the spotlight, to heavily imply just how little they figure into the internal dynamics of House Lannister and Cersei’s life?

Well this sucks. First desicion I REALLY don’t like.I Hate inconsistency, especially when it’s not needed to recast.

1. The actor has already played another character on the show.
2. Callum Wharry was fine speaking a single line every season.
3. Tommen won’t even need much speaking lines going forward, he will just need to appear in scenes.
4. The actor has already played another character on the show.
5. The actor has already played another character on the show.

SJ: hat Margaery is played by 31-year-old Natalie Dormer. If the former actor who played Tommen were still in the role, future story twists might have appeared too creepy since Dormer is old enough to be playing Tommen’s mother. This closes the age gap a bit, but the ick factor will still be there. This is why ND’s casting was such a poor choice. They should have found a teenage actress for her role (as well as other roles).

Does anyone HONESTLY believe that a TV series in which Craster raped and impregnated his own daughters, would shy away from large age gaps in political marriages?

This is… not good news exactly, but it makes me feel good rather than bad if that makes sense. If they had to recast Tommen for whatever reason, I’m glad they chose this kid. He looks great and we already know that he can act.

I wonder what they have in store for Tommen and Margaery.

Also, I really don’t want to stark this whole race thing again, but I can’t think of where else to ask. People were saying that the actor was too light-skinned to play olive skinned Oberyn, but today I was reading a book about Elizabeth I by Alison Wier and in it she says about Elizabeth “she had a swarthy olive complexion like that of her mother”. Elizabeth and Anne Boleyn were both white thou, so my question is, what the hell is olive skin supposed to look like. Sorry if this is racially insensitive or something, I’m really not trying to be rude, I’m just genuinely confused now because I thought olive skin was not white. And I figured there’s no harm in asking :)

Maybe the recast is not just based on the show wanting an older Tommen (although I think he will look a bit less creepy next to a Marg. that is a bit older than in the books) but also because maybe the actor wanted to do other things or his parents were not comfortable with him acting in the show as time goes on. I suspect he will have an increased roll with time and maybe his family didn’t want him to act full time.

Also – the kids on the show have been stellar actors. Maybe they were concerned he wouldn’t match up as time goes on? He hasn’t had much of a part so far.

Nick_Scryer:
Well this sucks. First desicion I REALLY don’t like.I Hate inconsistency, especially when it’s not needed to recast.

1. The actor has already played another character on the show.
2. Callum Wharry was fine speaking a single line every season.
3. Tommen won’t even need much speaking lines going forward, he will just need to appear in scenes.
4. The actor has already played another character on the show.
5. The actor has already played another character on the show.

This annoys me :(

all of this. while i’m not a big fan of the idea, recasting isn’t the worst thing in the world but using someone who has already played a part on the show is just wrong

BeatleFloydZeppelin:
I hope this isn’t true. Although Tommen becomes king he is still normally off screen (or page) in the book. I don’t think that Callum Wharry’s acting skills are an issue. And if a recast is necessary, then I wish that they would at least cast someone who hasn’t been in the show before. I think that it will be a bit jarring to see Dean-Charles Chapman dying in season 3 and see him pop up as a different character in season 4. Even more jarring than the Mountain’s recast (I still have unsullied friends that don’t understand that season 1 and season 2 mountains are the same person.

No one will remember Dean-Charles Chapman (didn’t even know his name until you wrote it.) That is a weak argument. Do you honestly think that a viewer will say, Hey, that’s the Lannister kid that was killed last season…”

Jake Umber is right. No one is going to recognize him. I’ve been watching The White Queen and didn’t recognize him. He looks completely different than he did two years ago, as teenage boys are wont to do. As The Dragon Demands said above, the cousins could certainly have a very similar look, especially given Tommen’s extreme Lannister lineage. Looking at some more current images of both on line, they seem to be around the same age to my much-older eyes. Depending on the scenes coming up, they may have thought that this new young man would do a better job.

In Nina Gold I Trust…

And get off Natalie Dormer! She’s doing a decent job breathing life into a character that was pretty flat and unremarkable in the books.

what about the fact that Marg an Tom can’t consummate the marriage since… he can’t. this boy is 16; some of the boys his age have kids of their own. That plot point really goes down on Saturday’s river..

I don’t mind him appearing as that boy Lannister since he had two lines and wasn’t at all, I don’t know…memorable I guess. The only ones that will care and notice is, well, us.

I rather think they needed a more talented actor since Tom’s role is going to increase a bit. ( in the future books too?) imo.

I don’t understand why. The poor actor is probably pissed out of his mind. And casting the same actor for two roles is nothing short of ridiculous, especially since they could have just held on to him for season 4 or having him play… I don’t know, TOMMEN last season. Anyone could play the prisoner. he had two scenes and no more than 10 short lines. This is just weird, but of course I don’t care much. He was okay last time and I’m sure he has the acting chops, but it’s still weird.

The sad thing about aging Tommen up is that it will probably mean his love of kitties and hatred of beets will be axes. His desire for a decree to outlaw beets was hilarious and I was hoping for Ser Pounce cameo.

I doubt any casual viewers will notice the recast but I don’t like it when shows do that. Maybe it was necessary though. We don’t know for sure. The first actor could have no longer wanted to do it or something. I just hope they don’t recast Myrcella too.

I think I will wait the confirmation of this information before saying anything… After all, it seems we are still waiting HBO confirmation about this recasting.
I guess we’ll see… Maybe we’ll still have the same actor in s4. But I have to say, if this info is true, i’m surprised and not surprised at the same time.
Surprised because I didn’t expected it, and not surprised because Tommen was played by an actor who is still a child, and who wasn’t even an actor, just a local boy, maybe he has other occupations ? Maybe his parents didn’t want him to appear on the show anymore ?

First off, Natalie Dormer is PERFECT as Margaery. Much more interesting than the book version. Second, why is it out of the question that cousins could bear a striking resemblance to each other? I generally don’t like recasts, but for a role as small as Tommen(at least during the first 3 seasons) it’s not that big of a deal to me. I’m sure a cleaned up and older Chapman won’t be recognizable as a dirty and oily haired prisoner.

Jesus, some of you are so ridiculous. No one is even going to notice this kid played some throw away murdered kid last season. They’re going to remember Robb being killed, and his baby and baby-momma and Cat, not the face of one of the two kids Karstark killed. And I don’t even really remember what hell the kid who played Tommen in the previous seasons even looked like now. No casual viewer is going to give a shit. Nor is any normal non-OCD fan. It’s a tv show. It’s not like it’s some long movie where they changed the actors in the middle of it. Get a grip.

Totally off topic, but just throwing it out there for anyone interested. I was out and about yesterday, and spotted the pink GOT signs at both Shanes Castle and Redhall in Island magee. Home of The CrossRoads Inn. Filming season four is definitely continuing at a pace.

according to the wiki of ice & fire, book!tommen is about 5 years younger than book!joffrey (and 1 year younger than book!myrcella). book!margaery is ~3 years older than book!joffrey, roughly ~8 years older than book!tommen.

in the show, joffrey turns 17 on the day of his season 2 nameday tournament, which means that show!margaery is at least 20, if you force the books and show into proportion. chapman is 15 irl, and i’m predicting that d&d cause show!tommen to play somewhere in the 12-13 age range, but an immature 12-13.

the difference between 8 and 16 (book!tommen and book!margaery ages) is vast, but so is the difference between 12 and 20, especially if chapman plays up show!tommen’s pre-pubescence, fascination with ser pounce, hatred of beets, etc.

if instead they cause him to act closer to his actual age, i agree it could get confusing.

NBD if you ask me. Lots of reasons for switching an actor out— none of which we are privy to. Most casual viewers aren’t going to notice the change as long as they stick a blonde wig on the kid and re-introduce him as Joffrey’s younger brother.

This happens all the time— and on shows with mythology as deep and complex as Game of Thrones. Doctor Who just cast the 12th Doctor with an actor not only previously featured in a small role in the show, but who also played a major role in a canonical spinoff (Torchwood). It’s not the first time either— both companions Martha Jones and Amy Pond had been featured on the show before in bit parts.

Isn’t that how most jobs work? You get tested out with a small task, and if you do well you’re promoted? There are a thousand reasons why the first Tommen was unable/unwanted to continue— but shouldn’t we be glad that they cast from within the Thrones family for his replacement?

I mean- it’s not like Kit Harington up and quit and they replaced him with Richard Madden. It’s a small (albeit growing) part that was replaced with an actor who played a character with less that a minute of screen-time.

I have absolutely no issue with this whatsoever!
In fact I’m happy they recast the role.

Many, MANY series that span long periods cast multiple actors for the same role showing them as young and then casting a new actor seasons later for an older version of the same character. Nothing new.

Finding a decent to good (possibly even excellent) teen actor is much easier than finding a good tween actor and with Tommen having a larger role in future episodes the older actor will make things much, much easier! Not to mention how the older character age will play against future plot developments!

I think some of you need to stop thinking the only reason roles are recast is down to the show firing the original actor. There are restrictions in place for under-16’s working on screen, which could potentially prevent Callum Wharry from appearing in the scenes planned for Tommen in season four, or perhaps he (or more likely his parents) have decided that they would rather not dedicate themselves to acting, especially if his role would be different than the background character he’s been so far.

It’s also quite possible he was only ever meant to play Tommen for two seasons. With Tommen’s role set to be much bigger next season, the producers may of planned to cast a new actor when he became the King.

Go watch Rome to see a really noticeable recasting of a major character. This happens all the time in TV, unfortunately. Its actually surprising that it hasnt happen yet on GOT due to the size of the cast and extreme ensemble nature of the show.

This isn’t good news, but recasts are inevitable on shows spanning the length of time this one will.

I’ll be annoyed, but I’ll get over it quick enough if this kid’s good and he looks nothing like he did when he previously appeared. That was a memorable scene though, I still remember his face/voice pretty clearly in the scene.

We’re getting our undies in a bunch over pure speculation again. We don’t know WHY this role has been recast. It could easily be something to do with the availability of the original Tommen. Perhaps he’s developed a stutter. Maybe his family is moving to New Zealand. Maybe his folks are difficult to deal with. Could be that this boy’s acting skills aren’t up to the season 4 challenges.

Since I can’t remember much about the boy who played the Lannister cousin, except that both young actors in that scene impressed me with their work, I will trust in Nina Gold.

I do remember being a bit confused watching the recycled Garrett Dillahunt on Deadwood, but much about that show was innovative and eye-opening.

I’ve been hoping that the role played by the late actor who played Ilyn Payne will be changed in the series so Jerome Flynn might have a continuing part. I could easily visualize him and Nikolai Coster-Waldau enjoying a snidely tempestuous series of night fights while on the road. I adore both characters and the actors who bring them to sarcastic life.

They are presumably recasting him because after Joffrey’s lethal wedding Tommen will have a much larger part than before. The other child actor may not be up to the job, which is fine, as he did what was required at the time.

Re-casting an older child, however, will cause complications for one critical aspect of the plot, namely Cersei’s resumption of authority. In the books, Cersei instantly assumes authority over the pre-adolescent Tommen, who’s content to sign his name on documents and enjoys using the seal. Would that be as believable with a near adult, and wouldn’t Tommen’s deference to his mother seem a bit less believable?

Has anyone considered that Callum Wharry might of decided not to do any more seasons of GoT after season 3? (If he truly is being recast)
I mean he was an unknown before the show, he might want to continue his studies, or decided acting isn’t for him.

Just thought I’d throw it in there since everyone seems to be jumping to conclusions.

How on earth could you confuse the two characters on Deadwood that Dillahunt played? They couldn’t be more different. I guess you are just far more observant than myself. :/

And I don’t think you could use Jerome Flynn for a new Ilyn. The reason Dillahunt worked was because he mannerisms between both roles were so pronounced (and that lazy eye or whatever it was). I think too many people would just be confused as to why Bronn has stopped talking and started pal-ing around with Jaime.

agree in principle to recasting tommen seeing as wharry seemed to be very shaky as Tommen in the first couple of seasons (including a very obvious irish accent coming across at that dinner scene with cersei, sansa,tommen and myrcella) and I’m fine with recasting him with an actor who’s already been in the show in a small capacity, its not like average viewers will really remember either him or wharry.
Still, given that he was playing a 15 year old last season, and this season he’ll be a year older, then this could mean they’re aging up tommen quite significantly. which i’m opposed too, it would still be weird that he marries margaery anyway, and thats like it was in the books anyway, so thats a good thing, but i hope they make the actor look younger than he looked last season, because taking into account the three year age adjustment from book to screen, tommen will be 11. If they age him up it will impact on the plot significantly, two things i can think of being– the amount of power the hand of the king and the regent have in the kingdom when he has none as king
-also the entire dorne plotline with Arianne and Myrcella, because if they aged him up then its likely Myrcella would be younger instead of older, which would get rid of the dornish law aspect of it
overall, good call by the showrunners, although he is quite old for the role and getting older, he could end up being a 19 year old trying to play a 12 year old, so hope they make him seem younger than he was in season 3

It annoyed me that the old Tommen had a northern English accent. Which the show uses as its ‘Northern’ accent. Why would Tommen have that accent?? Hopefully the new one will have the same accent as the rest of his family.

I’ve been hoping that the role played by the late actor who played Ilyn Payne will be changed in the series so Jerome Flynn might have a continuing part. I could easily visualize him and Nikolai Coster-Waldau enjoying a snidely tempestuous series of night fights while on the road. I adore both characters and the actors who bring them to sarcastic life.

would enjoy seeing that but only in season 4, since both characters will be out of KL after that, and it would probably hurt Bronn’s plotline if they were to have him go along with Jaime, since GRRM says that what Bronn is doing in Stokeworth will be of later significance. I think they should do that in Season 4, as Bronn doesnt have much to do then anyway, then when Bronn goes to Stokeworth, he can be given his own mini-arc, we see him a couple of time in the season at Stokeworth, hiring sellswords, killing his brother in law etc it sounds like exactly the kind of move D&D would go for, and it would provide some more action in a season which won’t be so action orientated as the others

Well, I figure that the aim would be to have Illyn do it just as in the books, but unfortunately his actor is terminally ill.

Bronn or Brienne seem like the best/only substitutes for me in that they are the only people I can imagine being trustworthy not to talk about Jaime’s (lack of) martial prowess- Bronn because he’d find it amusing and Jaime would pay him; Brienne because she and Jaime have become close and trust each other.

It is about viewers not being able to invest in a relationship between young tommen and old mags… They have to create on screen relationships that viewers can root for and seem realistic. Having Tommen be older will make viewers think “hey where is this going?” as oppossed to “this is ridculous.”

That’s exactly what I was thinking- the age difference was too great, it just looks creepy to have Margaery be engaged to a baby-faced Callum Wharry. Chapman’s older and he has slimmed out some and aged maybe a year from that headshot, from what I can tell.

The creepy age difference between Tommen and Margaery was the entire point though. And they’ve done far worse with Craster and Drogo.

I’ve thought they might recast Tommen, but I thought they would make him younger, not older.

Tommen and Margery don’t consummate their marriage in the books, the wedding night conversation between Cersei and the Queen of Thorns, N2M Cersie’s insistence that the a KG member accompany them to the bedroom would play out fine in the show and I think squash any “creepy” factor

I agree with those above who see this kind of recasting as lazy.

I really hope they don’t change the dynamic of the Ser Illyn and Jaime training sessions. A proper recast of Ser Illyn Payne should be done

If this is true , does make one wonder if there was some other reason for Callum Wharry not coming back. Wharry was not in season 3 and IMDB does not list him as being in anything besides the first two seasons of GOT.
?
I can’t imagine that Wharry grew 3 feet since we last saw him which was Blackwater.
Dean-Charles Chapman looks about the same age I think Wharry is right now.

The show seems to be going with the flow of time.
That somewhat mysterious ‘5 year’ gap of GRRM’s.
Sophie Turner has not looked the age the she gives Tryion in season 3 since season 1!
I thought it was a mistake to have her state in on the show her age …
And in 2014 season 5 filming she will be 18 , it’s obvious she is a young woman and not a child.
Anyway I absolutly cannot see Sophie Turner, Isaac Hempstead Wright, Maisie Williams or Art Parkinson being replaced.

This may have been one of those Conan Stevens, or Clive Mantle mysteries.
(For season 3 no explanation about Mantle ever emerged.)

I sense that Sansa stating that age was either the show wanting to prevent anyone from wanting the marriage to be consummated or Sansa wanting to prevent the marriage from being consummated, or possibly some combination of the two.

As soon as I saw the picture in the article I knew exactly who he was in season 3. I doubt many people know his name, but he has a unique appearance and is certainly recognizable. Even if people don’t recognize him the first time, I am worried that on a second viewing (after seeing him as tommen) unsullied will say “hey isn’t that Tommen being killed by Karstark?!?!”

It is about viewers not being able to invest in a relationship between young tommen and old mags… They have to create on screen relationships that viewers can root for and seem realistic. Having Tommen be older will make viewers think “hey where is this going?” as oppossed to “this is ridculous.”

In a series with so many faves, none of the casual viewers I know will even know that he played martyn. At most people will see that it’s a different actor. But the only people as mentioned above that will huff and poopoo this are those that know.

Boojam
I thought it was a mistake to have her state in on the show her age …

Since the show was unwilling to let Sansa hold any legitimate objections to marrying and sleeping with Tyrion relating to his own character, emphasizing that she’s still a child was the only way to go.

Timeline-wise, the show as a whole makes no sense (though I can’t really blame the writers for this; the kids are obviously growing), since they seem to be going with 1 season = 1 year, in general, but I dare anybody to figure out how you can fit three years into the show’s timeline.

Honestly? I liked this actor, to be truly honest, I’ve liked him since he was cast, hoping that he would play some more important character, but as you all know, he was there only for few minutes. Yes, I like him, but this is weird. Really, really weird. I would be ok with it, I’d get used to another Tommen, if Chapman hasn’t already played different character. And now I don’t know, whether I’d like this, because I like the actor, or dislike it, since it’s just weird, if it is true and not just a joke or mistake… Damn it!

Nick_Scryer:
Well this sucks. First desicion I REALLY don’t like.I Hate inconsistency, especially when it’s not needed to recast.

1. The actor has already played another character on the show.
2. Callum Wharry was fine speaking a single line every season.
3. Tommen won’t even need much speaking lines going forward, he will just need to appear in scenes.
4. The actor has already played another character on the show.
5. The actor has already played another character on the show.

This annoys me :(

I agree with this 100%. First off recasting someone who has already appeared in 8 episodes of the show is something I do not like as it is. And I dont care if he only had two or three lines to speak, that doesnt change the fact that he has been established as that character already. But the thing that annoys me the most is that they recast him with an actor who has already played someone else on the show. You cant get much more inconsistent than that. I really hope this doesnt turn out to be true.

That’s different. You didn’t see Ian Whyte’s face when he played the white walker. Unless they make a mask for the new Tommen, it’s a pretty different situation.

Without knowing why Tommen was recast, we can’t really say that it was “unnecessary” or “not needed.” And we may never know the truth. There are a multitude of possible reasons why this move was made, many of which have been mentioned in this thread.

They didn’t recast the role on a whim. They had a reason. As far as casting someone who has already appeared in the show, it shouldn’t matter as long as he is a quality actor because Tommen’s role does expand in the future.

Not really, in the world of ASOIAF betrothals age is rarely taken into consideration. It’s a rather normal occurrence. Sometimes marriage contracts are made before one of the participants is even born.

I feel a bit sad about this. I liked Calum Wharry as Tommen and I was expecting him to do a good job in the future. Dean-Charles Chapman was good in his small role earlier as well but I do like consistency. I feel as if it’s best not to recast unless there’s a serious problem. Of course I assume Nina et al had good reasons but it’s hard to know for sure.

I think it will add some interesting complications. In the books, Marg is more like a second mother-figure to Tommen than a wife – for obvious reasons, but I actually like the possibility for a slightly different dynamic. Cersei will have a different kind of a tug-of-war over Tommen if he’s old enough to have a romantic attachment or a crush on Margaery – even if he’s not old enough to consummate the marriage. It will be a reprise of what happened with Joffrey, except that Tommen seems to be sweet and fairly normal – more pliable, or at least doesn’t appear to be a sadistic psychopath like his older brother. That’s got to frustrate the hell out of Cersei, especially if Mace Tyrell is added to the small counsel and makes her feel she is losing influence over her son, in favor of his wife and inlaws.

I dont see anybody, aside from people who frequently view these forums, recognizing him. Even among the avid viewers I doubt it will be an issue. We saw the Lannister kid for 48 seconds and Tommen for like 4 minutes. This change is not that big a deal… I think itll actually be for the better.

NomadicDirewolf
would enjoy seeing that but only in season 4, since both characters will be out of KL after that, and it would probably hurt Bronn’s plotline if they were to have him go along with Jaime, since GRRM says that what Bronn is doing in Stokeworth will be of later significance. I think they should do that in Season 4, as Bronn doesnt have much to do then anyway, then when Bronn goes to Stokeworth, he can be given his own mini-arc, we see him a couple of time in the season at Stokeworth, hiring sellswords, killing his brother in law etc it sounds like exactly the kind of move D&D would go for, and it would provide some more action in a season which won’t be so action orientated as the others

Yes, season 4 would be a great time for Jaime to tour the realm with his sparring partner, and Bronn appears to have little to do now that he’s become gentrified, at least for the meantime. But that being said, season 4 has not only been written, but is currently filming. I hope Jamie’s night fights will be included somehow. I’ll be pleased to see how D&D handle it.

The original actor had to say a few lines per season, not nearly enough to gauge actual acting ability. Tommen will have a larger role in season four, he will have to have actual conversations with the likes of Peter Dinklage, Lena Headey, Nikolaj Coster-Waldau, and Charles Dance. And he will have scenes that will require huge displays of emotion. The casting has been pretty good so far, I trust the crew. And they brought back an actor that we can assumed impressed them enough to be brought back in a larger capacity, who also has a more extensive resume.

I sense that Sansa stating that age was either the show wanting to prevent anyone from wanting the marriage to be consummated or Sansa wanting to prevent the marriage from being consummated, or possibly some combination of the two.

Just do it like the book, Tyrion did , what he did, to defy his father.
Just use that.

HBO under UK labor laws cannot use old historical concepts of adult hood.
(For that matter , depending on the age, child actors, can work only so many hours a day.)
The above would be true under USA laws too.
That is why all George’s ‘Medieval’ characters had to be aged up , in the context of the plot, else-wise the show could not have been made.

Boojam: HBO under UK labor laws cannot use old historical concepts of adult hood.
(For that matter , depending on the age, child actors, can work only so many hours a day.)
The above would be true under USA laws too.
That is why all George’s ‘Medieval’ characters had to be aged up , in the context of the plot, else-wise the show could not have been made.

Easteros bunny: Well, the show has lost all continuity now. How can they cast someone who played a character that died in a previous episode? You think fans won’t notice? Thrones has the most hardcore fans on the planet, trust me they WILL notice!

He’ll be another year older plus playing a blood relative to the previous character. It’s fine even if people do dig to find out it’s the same kid. Even with a wide announcement it’s no big deal. Look at it this way; if George were to write in a brother of Khal Drogo in the next couple books I bet we’d see a LOT of people screaming for Jason Momoa to play the role. We’re talking about Tommen as well, barely a sub-character in use through the books so far.

Well, this certainly annoys me. Margaery being significantly older than Tommen is kind of the point no? I think it will look creepier that Marg is engaged to a teanager instead of a baby faced boy. It would seem more like a mother son relationship than an actual marriage if Marg is engaged to Tommen( to the dismay of Cersei who is an overprotective mother). And then to bring a dead character back to life by casting the same actor? Might as well have Sean Bean recast as Moon boy.

A couple of people set queries to this needed change in the
cast line up, albeit for different reasons. As long as the possible
new youth performs his role, sufficiently, the recast
should be just fine.

Apparently Tommen’s actor according to crew members was “difficult” behind the scenes, and was even ad-libbing lines, despite directors repeatedly telling him to stop. Also it didn’t help that he kept posting stuff on his blog that were against the disclosure agreement.

On a serious note I wonder what Tommen’s old actor looks like now. I never really thought he look looked like Cersei and Jaimie son and I bet he looks even less so now.

WeirwoodTreeHugger:
The sad thing about aging Tommen up is that it will probably mean his love of kitties and hatred of beets will be axes.His desire for a decree to outlaw beets was hilarious and I was hoping for Ser Pounce cameo.

I doubt any casual viewers will notice the recast but I don’t like it when shows do that.Maybe it was necessary though.We don’t know for sure.The first actor could have no longer wanted to do it or something.I just hope they don’t recast Myrcella too.

Thats the stuff. Remember how this actor said “Martin Lannister” when Oona Chapman asked him if he was a Lannister?

I declare you Ser Pounce of the Kings Guard! Now go forth and scare away the bad kitty that meows mean at me. I also imagine HBO Tommen may be extra faithful and really into the Seven, as a way to show his purity and innocence and love of all things kitten. It would also allow D&B to get more into the faith earlier.

hanging around Nerds will make you ” psychic ” every now and then, or at least
experience temporary Green-sight ability. Good call, even though this change
was for an older lad. This little guy may impress better than S1 Tommen.

I’m assuming we all know that age discrepancies in marriage are just a part of this story. So the folks saying Dormer just looks too old to be with Tommen are being sexist. Yes, it is an uncomfortable pairing, but this is a story that gravitates towards the uncomfortable. If you can accept Walder Frey’s lifetime of statutory rape as part of the story, and tolerated seeing a perverted elderly man with a teenager on his lap, you should be similarly accepting of a [visually] twenty-something woman marrying a pre-teen.

On the more general topic of aging characters up, I’m totally fine with it. I think the show is actually being more accurate, in a manner. The adults may technically be older than in the books, but when you consider life expectancy and the level of medicine, fully realized book characters would look older to our modern eyes. Similarly, the kids of this world are forced to mature crazy-fast, so while the kids in the book might be thirteen or fourteen, they act more like they’re in their late teens by our reckoning. Age is a concrete number, but on an emotional level it is highly relative, and I’m glad the show is aiming to be accurate with the latter.

Sean C.: If you didn’t know he already played somebody else (for like 30 seconds), would you ever have guessed?

I am a sucker for details, so yeah I did find the actor somewhat familiar and I would have eventually remembered that he played Martyn Lannister. Although I generally dislike recasting due to the inconsistency, I didnt mind it when they did it to Lord Beric Dondarrion (The guy who played him in the first season was an extra, who only appeared in one scene and had no lines), nor did I mind it when they did it to Rickard Karstark (because although the first actor was more than an extra, the second guy that played him did a fantastic job imo). I did mind it when they did it to the Mountain and I still do but the first guy hadnt appeared in eight episodes before they recast him and from the rumours that I heard he was a pain in the ass to work with so there is that.

But when it comes to Tommen, I just dont agree with this recasting, if it is indeed a recasting. At least not if they are planning to recast him with a guy who has already played a different character on the show. And please dont give me this “it has been done in other shows so therefore we should all just accept it” stuff. If he was replaced by someone new, someone who hasnt been in the show before then the problem will be much less significant.

I am completely on board with this recast of Tommen, even with my strongest image of Tommen being the one where he sits on Cersei’s lap at the end of Blackwater, looking his very youngest. Some of the scenes he has with Cersei in what I expect to be Season 5 would be hard to buy with a younger-seeming Tommen.

That said, I would be little short of outraged if Aimee Richardson is recast. She is perfect as Myrcella, even if she has not had the screen time she deserves. And I think that Aimee will be perfect for the material in A Feast for Crows, at just the age where it will be the least clear to what degree she is being manipulated, or if she has decided that it is in her own interest to go along with others’ plans.

Jacarb: I’m assuming we all know that age discrepancies in marriage are just a part of this story. So the folks saying Dormer just looks too old to be with Tommen are being sexist. Yes, it is an uncomfortable pairing, but this is a story that gravitates towards the uncomfortable. If you can accept Walder Frey’s lifetime of statutory rape as part of the story, and tolerated seeing a perverted elderly man with a teenager on his lap, you should be similarly accepting of a [visually] twenty-something woman marrying a pre-teen.

Okay that doesn’t even make sense. Walder Frey is supposed to be creepy and disgusting. It’s part of the character. We’re not supposed to like him. Whereas we’re not supposed to be freaked out by Margaery. It is supposed to be a little uncomfortable, with her older than her betrothed. They will have to wait years to be married. Cersei is critical of Marg being too old, in her opinion, having been married already etc. but it isn’t supposed to be outright scandalous. Chapman looking older provides a little more of a comfort zone for the modern viewer. Plus I think he is honestly just a better actor than Wharry. The expanded role could be part of the reasoning, who knows. We’ll have to wait and see.

Ours is the Fury: Okay that doesn’t even make sense. Walder Frey is supposed to be creepy and disgusting. It’s part of the character. We’re not supposed to like him. Whereas we’re not supposed to be freaked out by Margaery. It is supposed to be a little uncomfortable, with her older than her betrothed. They will have to wait years to be married. Cersei is critical of Marg being too old, in her opinion, having been married already etc. but it isn’t supposed to be outright scandalous. Chapman looking older provides a little more of a comfort zone for the modern viewer. Plus I think he is honestly just a better actor than Wharry.The expanded role could be part of the reasoning, who knows.We’ll have to wait and see.

That makes even less sense. Tommen being to young to marry Margaery is the point of the plotline. Everyone made it clear the marriage would not be consummated for years. If they age the character up enough to make it less creepy, than they remove any logical reason why the characters wouldn’t just consumate the marriage immediately.

I hated the mountain recasting too. What I hate most about it is that we were never given a proper reason as to why he was recast

Conan Stevens was caught in Peter Jackson’s decision to make The Hobbit into a trilogy.
Was not available for season 3.
What is not explained is what happened between Stevens and HBO for season 4, where he is needed, he apparently wanted to come back.

Pau: y Margaery. It is supposed to be a little uncomfortable, with her older than her betrothed. They will have to wait years to be married. Cersei is critical of Marg being too old, in her opinion, having been married already etc. but it isn’t supposed to be outright scandalous. Chapman looking older provides a little more of a comfort zone for the modern viewer.

Also, at 15 he would probably be eager to consummate the marriage, whereas Book!Tommen is totally oblivious to such concerns.

Boojam: Conan Stevens was caught in Peter Jackson’s decision to make The Hobbit into a trilogy.
Was not available for season 3.
What is not explained is what happened between Stevens and HBO for season 4, where he is needed, he apparently wanted to come back.

Once you turn down a show, you don’t get asked back. It’s that simple. It has nothing to do with availabilities (he was never needed for S3 anyway).

Also, he was pretty publicly bitchy about how his fight scene in S1 was edited – which is pretty unprofessional and generally gets you dumped from shows.

But… but continuity. And I liked little Tommen… Although I must admit that although I knew I had seen the face, I didn’t realise that it was Martyn until it was pointed out in the post.

And they wouldn’t have needed to do this if THEY DIDN’T CAST AN ACTRESS FOR MARGAERY THAT IS TWICE THE AGE OF THE CHARACTER. Don’t get me wrong, Natalie Dormer is a great actress, but she is not Margaery.

Also, what does this mean for Aimee Richardson as Myrcella? She has played a much smaller role than Tommen so far, and will have been absent for longer. But then again, her actress has recently appeared at cons and might have aged up visibly more than little Tommen’s actor.

If Tommen has been recast, I would guess it’s for reasons of acting ability. I don’t think it’s a problem for him to be waaaay too young.

I completely agree with those who say it should be totally creepy.

Marg is great at playing the game, which is relatively easy with Joffrey. With Tommen, the difficulty level for her increases tenfold. She still desperately wants to be queen, and she needs to curry favour with the populace, but now her only way of doing that it to marry a minor. Awkward etc.

Seriously, that’s drama gold… Ramps it up a bit from the book level of awkward.

And they wouldn’t have needed to do this if THEY DIDN’T CAST AN ACTRESS FOR MARGAERY THAT IS TWICE THE AGE OF THE CHARACTER. Don’t get me wrong, Natalie Dormer is a great actress, but she is not Margaery.

She’s not BookMarg, but she’s great as ShowMarg. I prefer ShowMarg anyway.

Like I said before, for dramatic purposes I don’t see anything wrong with having her older, as it greatly increases the awkward stakes in the Tommarg union.

It may also just be a legal issue, with the amount of time needed to work on set etc.

When I saw his picture above I knew I recognized him, but I couldn’t recall from where. I didn’t realize he played the adorable Lannister prisoner until I read it here. Even so, it will not bother me one tiny bit to see him as Tommen next season for two major reasons (a) I have an imagination and (b) costume/hair/makeup. It’s a thing in TV productions, look into it. Seriously people, settle down.

I can see being upset if you really loved the first actor (as I was very fond of the first Gregor), but getting all up in arms about a re-casting *on principle* and how it’s going to *ruin* the show and it’s just *wrong*…I just don’t get the outrage. I wonder what you would do if you were responsible for producing and casting a show like GOT?

Also, three seasons in, it’s time to accept the fact that the ages of the ACTORS on the show and the ages of the CHARACTERS on the show and the ages of the characters in the BOOKS can and will be three very different things.

Aw, that’s a shame. I really enjoyed Wharry’s performance, especially in S2. He really balanced out the Lannister family act. I really appreciated his input in the dinner scene with Sansa and Cersei.

I don’t see why Wharry and Dormer’s age difference would be an issue on the show. It’s not like there will be any bumping in the night for years to come. I fail to see the moral conflict in terms of the source material presenting difficulties for the production.

Also, what does this mean for Aimee Richardson as Myrcella? She has played a much smaller role than Tommen so far, and will have been absent for longer. But then again, her actress has recently appeared at cons and might have aged up visibly more than little Tommen’s actor.

I’ve been wondering about Aimee – and the character of Myrcella – for weeks. How long can she remain off-screen without becoming an afterthought?

I’ve been called a book purist all too many times for not liking changes in the series, but this one slide off me like water off a duck’s back. I simply do not get the fuss.

Personally, I’m not sure how many people would have instantly recognized Callum Wharry now that he has hit puberty even if the original actor returned to the role! Look at this photo. Is that the Tommen of Season 2? Of course not. I wager many people would think it was a different actor after a few years of puberty and 2 years out of their minds.

Consider Walt (Malcom David Kelly) on LOST. So many people thought they recast the role when Walt returned in Season 6 because of how much the actor changed after hitting puberty.

What if the original actor was not available? Would those people annoyed by the recasting prefer to have Tommen removed from the series because the original actor is gone? Now that would be an unforgivable change!

However, I do somewhat understand the concerns about how aging up Tommen affects certain plot lines like Cersei being Queen Regent and Tommen and Margaery’s marriage being delayed until he was of age. I’m not sure either is a major concern though honestly.

Regarding Joffrey’s and Tommen’s ages…
Gleeson is 21 and Chapman is 15, both look younger than they are. Joff of the TV series was well into his teens, not a 12-year old. The 9-year old Tommen will be played as a young teen. I guess I always expected that change seeing as even the original actor would be 15! XD

There is a huge difference between a child just entering his teens and one who is basically a man by the standards of the day. That age difference is enough change the dynamic between mother and son so the plot lines between Cersei and Tommen will not be affected too greatly IMO.

Regarding the age difference between Tommen and Margaery…
Chapman is 15 and Dormer is 31. She does not play a a 17-year old teen like the Margaery of the books. Likewise Tommen will not be a 9-year old boy, but Dormer is still twice his age! If that is not creepy enough there is always the fact that Margaery has already been married twice before and both times to kings who have lost their lives! It will still be a very uncomfortable relationship regardless of the recast!!

On top of all that this is still a rumor and not confirmed. It may not even be true! XD

Personally, I’m not sure how many people would have instantly recognized Callum Wharry now that he has hit puberty even if the original actor returned to the role! Look at this photo. Is that the Tommen of Season 2? Of course not. I wager many people would think it was a different actor after a few years of puberty and 2 years out of their minds.

I was hoping they would re-cast Tommen with a younger actor so it would be hilarious with him and Dormer together and show the absurdity of arranged marriages.

But Chapman has an impressive resume and has done far more than Wharry. My guess is this is based on casting a better young actor than just looks.

If Tommen is given a bigger role prior to the PW and he’s more of a teen idol than a little boy, it could change the dynamic. The Tyrells could look like they are choosing sweet Tommen as a better potential husband for Margaery over Joffrey.

Chickenduck:
If Tommen has been recast, I would guess it’s for reasons of acting ability.I don’t think it’s a problem for him to be waaaay too young.

I completely agree with those who say it should be totally creepy.

Marg is great at playing the game, which is relatively easy with Joffrey.With Tommen, the difficulty level for her increases tenfold.She still desperately wants to be queen, and she needs to curry favour with the populace, but now her only way of doing that it to marry a minor.Awkward etc.

Seriously, that’s drama gold…Ramps it up a bit from the book level of awkward.

I Agree here with your perspective, in general. Especially with respect to Tommen’s interaction with lady Margaery in , future seasons . If now preteen actor,
Brody-Sangster were his former precocious munchkin self, he would be
great to view onscreen. I’m not sure if the book version will win out , with an
overall naive Tommen, but I’m eager to see how the revisions would keep the
relationship interesting. I hope we don’t get too much smothering from Cersei.
And I’m in no way prepared for rushing headstrong into the ADWD territory.

Modern concepts do cause some experience some creep factor with such
betrothals, but the practice has not ceased in remote cultures. And then, there’s
Benjamin Button, another fictional depiction, in reverse. (:

This is why Aimee needs to be back on screen this season, GoT the series is not a book, where can you read about the characters hours later. I was upset they cut the scene(s) filmed at the Eyrie this past season. The episodes were already short enough, adding an extra 3-4 minute scene would not have harmed the so-called flow.
The Tommen recast is np for me, but recasting Myrcella would be bothersome because Ms. Richardson has done an exceptional job with her brief scenes.

Darquemode: On top of all that this is still a rumor and not confirmed. It may not even be true!

This isn’t just a rumor. HBO hasn’t given the official confirmation, but the source is very, very reliable. I get the feeling Chapman will be spotted soon enough in Dubrovnik. Croatian press is always fantastic about getting snapshots of filming, and Chapman tweeted he’d be traveling again in a couple weeks.

Chapman has also tweeted to the effect that he will be traveling very soon, and he’s been tweeting about how he’s currently filming in Belfast. It’s pretty obvious it for GoT.

And I don’t think it’s really fair to criticize Wharry’s acting when he was barely given anything to do. Chapman certainly has more experience due to his stage work and other film work, but they really aren’t comparable.

Eh, 90% of the time child actors aren’t good. I don’t mean to cast aspersions here but just by pure numbers the chances are that a kid cast when he was probably 8-10 yrs old is going to be a subpar actor. I wouldn’t have been more surprised if he wasn’t recast.

P.S Although I have been complaining, I don’t actually have a problem with this recast itself. I just have a problem with the age of Margaery on the show.

Oh, and just a thought: to those worried that this will screw up his marriage with Margaery because he could be old enough to consummate it now – that doesn’t effect the charges of adultery and high treason that are brought against Margaery. The only thing it really effects is Cersei going into the marriage. And even then it could actually make her hatred of the Tyrell’s stronger, because she will know that the only way she can now break up the marriage is if Margaery is found guilty of a crime, setting up her attempts to have Margaery imprisoned.

Am I the only guy here who was looking forward to non-readers going “EWWWW” when they found out that Margaery is marrying Tommen? Although I guess the new actor is young enough for it to still be creepy by modern standards.

Oh, and for the record, the guy who plays Ilyn Payne is alive and well. Do we know if he is gone from the show permanently? I saw him perform a month ago and he looked great.

Sharick:
Jesus, some of you are so ridiculous.No one is even going to notice this kid played some throw away murdered kid last season.They’re going to remember Robb being killed, and his baby and baby-momma and Cat, not the face of one of the two kids Karstark killed.And I don’t even really remember what hell the kid who played Tommen in the previous seasons even looked like now.No casual viewer is going to give a shit.Nor is any normal non-OCD fan.It’s a tv show.It’s not like it’s some long movie where they changed the actors in the middle of it.Get a grip.

Amen. Some of you would probably hang yourselves if you ever became fans of the TV series of Spartacus.

Tommen has been such a minor role so far in the show. You will all survive.

Are there actually people upset about this recast? To each their own I suppose but I will take every complaint and criticism on this site with a grain of salt from now on. Callum had a few lines. That’s it. Sure he made an impression in one or two scenes but he was recast for a reason. Maybe he wasn’t a good fit with Dormer, who yes she is playing a character who is much younger in the books, her aging up in the adaptation was in anticipation for the great bitchery of Marge vs Cersei, where an older actress butting heads with Lena as opposed to a 16 year old makes for much better drama. At least in my opinion. And why not use an actor who played a member of the Lannister family? Tommen is 100 % Lannister after all!

I can understand completely if this was their plan all along, and part of the reason why they didn’t show too much of Tommen so far, just a couple of quick glimpses. I think that excluding Tommen entirely from Season 3 was a mistake though. I mean… how do you expect the viewers to even remember this kid when he becomes king?

The original actor had to say a few lines per season, not nearly enough to gauge actual acting ability. Tommen will have a larger role in season four, he will have to have actual conversations with the likes of Peter Dinklage, Lena Headey, Nikolaj Coster-Waldau, and Charles Dance. And he will have scenes that will require huge displays of emotion.

I think their recast choice was very lazy, but as to why the role has been recast, this is a very good point.

Conan Stevens was caught in Peter Jackson’s decision to make The Hobbit into a trilogy.

No, he wasn’t. He decided to do THE HOBBIT and SPARTACUS at more or less the same time that S2 of GoT would be filming and there was a clash. Stevens said he could still have done GoT, which suggests to me that the filming dates did not directly overlap, but that HBO would have had to have shuttled him back and forth from Australia and New Zealand to Northern Ireland and back again several times, which would be quite expensive.

THE HOBBIT wasn’t split into three movies until well after completion of principal photography. That’s why the actors had to go back a few months ago to film more scenes for the third film.

The change could be easily explained by a comment by say Tyrion to say: “oh you have had a growth spurt since I last saw you” They could also explain his absence from Sansa’s wedding as him being away with some relatives for saftey/allusions to book Tyrion’s attempt to have him fostered in Clash. I also imagine him being older, having some scenes to show his sweetness in order to push Lady O and Marg into seeing him as a viable option and to inspire getting rid of Joff

I have forgotten what Martyn looked like in his season 3 episode. I have already forgotten how Chapman looks like since seeing his picture before reading the comments. I get concerns over recasting, particularly if the actor’s already been used. But I give a lot of benefit of doubt when it comes to child actors and child roles. They can be very difficult to work with, are rarely good, and their aging causes problems for continuity. If anything, willingness to recast shows that they are taking Tommen seriously and will maybe have more scenes with him. Curious where they’ll go with him.

In each post that is a bit controversial, you’ll find people who say that this blog is too whiny or negative or similar.

This is because the combination of two human mentalities, one, that the only thing that there is is what we see, the other, that if we’re not happy about something we tend to share it with more people than we are when we are happy about something.

So, in example, let’s imagine there are 10000 readers :

Only 10% of them would ever write a comment. Then :
A) 300 are not bothered with Tommen being recast or even happy about it.
B) 300 are not happy about the decision.
C) 300 either don’t care or rather wait or whatever.
D) 100 don’t know who Tommen is.

From D, just a few would probably write. People in the C group, will comment just rarely to counter what others are saying. Group A would express their satisfaction with this and counter other arguments, but most will rather not say much, as they agree. Group B? Those become the majority of the posters usually because they want to express their problems with this decision, which is totally fine, that’s why we have forums and comments and all that.

So let’s imagine that this is what happens then :
Out of 10000 readers, only 1000 ever write a comment. Out of those 9000, we don’t know their opinion at all. From the group A, only 50 post, from group B, 250 do, group C are 25 and group D, only 10 do. So, our brains will be deciding that since 75% of the comments are negative, it means that this blog is very negative, ignoring the fact that the rest of the people are either lurkers or don’t want to write to say that they agree.

This applies to most forums or blogs, unless it’s a very niche blog, whicn in there you will find the opposite. People only comment when they agree, because if they disagree, they will face a big pressure or their comment would be censored even.

The actor is 15. I’m guessing Tommen is still a bit younger, more 12 or 13.

Yeah, I think they’ll go with 12 now, which brings him in line with Bran again (they are both the same age in the books too, and it was somewhat puzzeling that Tommen was the only one of the children that somehow retained his book age. But now Loras probably was just “exaggerating” when calling him eight in season 1) They can’t make him much older though or continuity is shot to hell, when he suddenly would be show!Sansa’s age.

Also for ND and fandom’s sake I hope that someone finally mentions show!Margs actual age (“Haha, a 24 year old virgin? Want to by a bridge?”), so we can finally put that issue to rest too.

As much as it sucks to lose Callum, why has no one thought that Callum or his parents weren’t keen in the role going forward so he dropped out. Seasons 1-3 Tommens a background character, going forward its significantly maturing role.
End of the day Callum is a minor so his parents can withdraw consent for him to appear if they feel he is too young to do any scenes that may appear season 4 and onwards.

So stop thinking the that the team who so obviously love making this show are out to ruin it or disappoint you. It could be more than likely it wasn’t HBOs choice.

No they wont, execpt for die hard fans that read this kind of blogs. Kids on that age bracket change a lot, a bit of makeup and hair styling and nobody will be able to tell is the same person. Also, Tommen is pure Lannister, it makes sense that he looks similar to his dead cousin.

Ours is the Fury: Okay that doesn’t even make sense. Walder Frey is supposed to be creepy and disgusting. It’s part of the character. We’re not supposed to like him. Whereas we’re not supposed to be freaked out by Margaery. It is supposed to be a little uncomfortable, with her older than her betrothed. They will have to wait years to be married. Cersei is critical of Marg being too old, in her opinion, having been married already etc. but it isn’t supposed to be outright scandalous. Chapman looking older provides a little more of a comfort zone for the modern viewer. Plus I think he is honestly just a better actor than Wharry.The expanded role could be part of the reasoning, who knows.We’ll have to wait and see.

Oh, I think we’re on the same page. I was saying that Frey is way, way creepier and it is accepted as part of the story/how things were done in such cultures, so no one should be bothered by Margaery and Tommen, whose marriage isn’t creepy or scandalous beyond a chuckle. The complaint that Natalie Dormer makes their age discrepancy too great/hard to swallow doesn’t make sense when the discrepancy is already a part of the story. I am sensing a double standard behind this complaint, that’s all.

After I posted, I unpaused the episode of Family Guy I was watching and about thirty seconds later Brian very preachily complained that a double standard was behind people giving him shit for dating an older woman. I felt both vindicated and extra douchy.

As to the recast, I’m reserving my opinion, though I don’t think there are any obvious problems. Even if he is aged up to sexual maturity, it’s not at all hard to believe that Margaery would be able to manipulate him into waiting for some reason or another. She has been engaged to Joffrey, who is definitely sexually mature, for over a season now and no one is particularly rushing it. No doubt the producers are aware the dual roles might confuse and/or irritate particularly detail oriented fans, but something about him outweighed the risk. That much bodes well.

I’d say people are more baffled than pissed. Sometimes parts are recast. Sometimes actors are reused. Very rarely are both done at the same time. I highly doubt this was done for creative reasons. There no evidence that the actor couldn’t handle the role going forward. He went through the same audition process as Arya, Bran and Sansa and D&D knew the character’s arc through book four when they cast him. So I’m guessing something fell through with the actor at the last minute and they did not have time to do the full audition process and were forced to go with a known entity.

I’d say people are more baffled than pissed. Sometimes parts are recast. Sometimes actors are reused. Very rarely are both done at the same time. I highly doubt this was done for creative reasons. There no evidence that the actor couldn’t handle the role going forward. He went through the same audition process as Arya, Bran and Sansa and D&D knew the character’s arc through book four when they cast him. So I’m guessing something fell through with the actor at the last minute and they did not have time to do the full audition process and were forced to go with a known entity.

A very likely explanation.

However, I do think that some people are “pissed” by this move. (I am not one of them.)

As for the “last-minute replacement” idea, I frankly doubt it. Even it were last minute, they could choose just about anyone else. It’s Game of Thrones- they have their pick of actors, even child ones. Also, it’s clear from Chapman’s twitter feed that he was getting ready for the role a couple weeks before filming began, with the cutting and dyeing of his hair. A last-minute replacement wouldn’t have that preparation time.

Not sure how you get Myrcella into the S4 storyline without including scenes in Dorne. And since we haven’t received any casting info/rumors for Arianne, Arys, Doran, I don’t think it will happen this season.

Ours is the Fury:
I’m hopeful Aimee won’t be recast. She’s a better actor than Callum Wharry, and she’s grown into a Lannister-like beauty, certainly.

[…] Tommen taking on a larger role in Kings Landing this coming season, the producers have decided to recast Joffrey’s younger, kinder, softer brother for the coming season. Considering that the kid who […]

patchface: But is is supposed to be ridiculous.That’s the whole point.

Exactly. I’m confused with all this, “It’s supposed to make their relationship be believable”…It’s never supposed to be. Tommen is going on and on about kittens, while Margery is a grown woman manipulating Tommen by taking on the role of “loving mother”…

I don’t mind the recasting, my guess it has more to do with acting than age. In some ways I do think he’s too old. Part of Tommen’s character is that he’s an innocent being manipulated on all sides because he’s just a child who doesn’t know any better. All he cares about is kittens and being a kid. He’s the opposite of Joffery.

Well, the throwing up at the funeral could be easily attributed to the smell of Tywin’s corpse- no need for any maturity considerations there. In terms of the love of kittens and/or wanting to outlaw beets, I’d imagine that kind of thing might be downplayed a bit anyway even without the cast (its very touching on the page but could be soppy on screen if translated word for word); Also to consider is that even in the book, Tommen seems to be a bit immature/”slow” (not sure of a better term to use)- a combination of inattentive parents and having Joffrey for a brother- so he could have these same traits even if he was aged up

I thinks it’s very strange to recast Tommen with an actor who has already been cast in the series in another role. As other posters have mentioned, I have nothing aganist Natalie Dormer – she’s a lovely and talented actress – but I think she was a poor choice for Margarey. She can’t really pass for being under, say, 26. I wish they had cast her with an actress who looks younger and closer to book Margery’s age. Though that said the entire marriage between Tommen and Margery is creepy no matter if they recast Tommen with a kid a few years older so I don’t really see the point in why they decided on this change.

No one is saying that it’s supposed to be more believable. They’re saying that it will make the relationship less creepy and seeming like pedophilia. Yes, we know the marriage won’t be consummated because we know the books but the audience makes a snap judgment with their eyes. They would see a twentysomething character marrying a child. With Tommen supposed to be in his early teens, it will be still uncomfortable but Margaery won’t have to wait as long for him to grow up so in theory, it’s less disturbing.

I think having a teenage Tommen [spoiler]makes the relationship between him and Margaery even creepier because now they can have sex. And of course a teenager that loves playing with the royal seal, who spends all his days with his kittens and wants to outlaw beets, sounds like he has more issues than Robert Arryn. All those things stop being cute after a certain age.[/spoiler]

It would be pretty amusing if they do make him older but keep the same characteristics. It would serve to emphasize the contrast between him and Joffrey. They already had the scene of him crying when Myrcella left and Joffrey being a prick, but if he’s older and he’s still the gentle,playful kid that he is in the books it might be interesting to watch. Also makes it that much better that Margaery gets him to grow a backbone in regards to Cersei if he’s a bit older. Think Buster and Lucille, if you like Arrested Development.

I think that it is important for Tommen – regardless of who is playing him – to be sweet and gentle. It doesn’t it matter how old he is supposed to be. He doesn’t have to play with kittens all day. He just has to be the polar opposite of Joffrey. In the books, on more than one occasion, a character wonders what would have happened if Tommen had been the first-born son. The difference now is that he will be portrayed as a kind teen rather than a kind little kid.

At this point I trust the judgment of the producers/casting team. I thought Margaery was going to be a disaster because Natalie Dormer was too old, and now I adore what they’ve done with her. If they age up Tommen a bit, I don’t think it matters as long as they emphasize two things: (1) the contrast between Tommen and Joffrey; and (2) the slow building of confidence to break out from under Cersei’s control (and into Margaery’s).

And now I’m wondering if Myrcella will be involved at all, or, if just like in the story, she’ll be for the most part completely overlooked.

No one is saying that it’s supposed to be more believable. They’re saying that it will make the relationship less creepy and seeming like pedophilia. Yes, we know the marriage won’t be consummated because we know the books but the audience makes a snap judgment with their eyes

That’s what the show has dialogue for. It doesn’t take much to establish a 12 year old isn’t actually sleeping with a 30 year old.

You could make the argument that they want to change Tommen’s character traits from what they were in the show, and I agree that it could work, but I like what he did in AFFC.

The murdered Lannisters were shown for what, a minute? I would’ve never put two and two together, and I doubt the majority of viewers will either. I’m excited for this kid, and I’m sad for the old Tommen. But, the show must go on.

Well, in the book there are a few hints that Tommen begins to favor Margery and looks forward to being with her, in a very innocent way, of course. And he also starts repeating things that she said and doing things that she wants him to do. So there’s a basis for it from the books. By aging Tommen, the Producers can add more elements of him having a legit romantic crush on her, which would support Cersei’s reasoning for taking control of the kingdom all that much more. I’m eager to see how they change Tommen’s character as a result of this re-casting, which I don’t think they can avoid because this kid looks much older than the previous actor.

Well, regarding the beets…it’s possible that they could still include it but change the actor’s attitude. Instead of it being an innocent child being serious and as a result funny, they could have Tommen use it as joke and an example of how he’s uninterested in ruling. THAT’S the part that I don’t understand how they’ll work it. It makes sense for a pre-teen Tommen to just want to sign papers and not rule but this kid is 15 in real life playing a younger boy who is about tween age, an age where the trappings of power are more likely to interest him. So how do the make Tommen young enough to not be interested but older at the same time? I think they will have to make him different from how he is in the books.

[…] been recast with an actor already known to the series. According to inside sources reporting to WinterIsComing.net, Prince Tommen, who was originally played by young Callum Wharry (pictured to the left), will now […]

Why are people so worried about a creepy relationship between Tommen and margaery?! Its the same as little finger and sansa. And plus it would create more “drama” to the show… as far as i know its rare for a tv show or movie to show that kind of relationship. Which would make thw show more awesome and unique to the typical movies and shows…

I don’t get what the fuss is about. The Tommen/Margaery relationship is supposed to be ridiculous and not even actually creepy cause we know they aren’t sleeping together, which can be made clear on the show with a line or two of dialogue. Beseides we already have Sansa/Sandor, Sansa/Littlefinger and Sansa/Tyrion, which are more creepy tham Tommen/Marge in my opinion, but no one is freaked out about that. Not saying that anyone should be, cause it’s all great drama, but I just don’t understand the argument that the previous actor was too young to be in a relationship with Marge. For all we know he just wanted to leave.

Sergei Walankov:
As a big fan of The Thick of It who wants to avoid spoilers, I’m really frustrated that I can’t read Rygar’s comment at 6:22pm.

It wasn’t really a spoiler as my statement is rather ambiguous. Those who know the books will get my meaning but if you have not read them, I am not naming names or giving away anything crucial. In fact I think they mention it in the show when they talk about Gregor’s role in the sack of Kings Landing.

And it was more of an homage to Capaldi’s Malcolm Tucker from “In the Loop”, one of the funniest movies ever made.

It’s a dialogue spoiler. I don’t think it’s a major spoiler if he wants to go ahead and check out the Thick of It reference, which is very funny. But it is a parody of a chunk of a dialogue which has yet to be on the show and will likely be in this season, in a major scene.

Ser Endrew Tarth:
So the actor for Illyn Payne is still alive (the articles made it sound like he died) and someone upthread posted they wouldn’t recast his part out of respect?But he’s not dead?! My head hurts!:(

Yes Wilco Johnson who plays Ilyn Payne is alive but may not return due to health issues.

The only downside to recasting is that non book readers might get confused when they see these new faces pop up. I usually really enjoy this site but for some reason all these nerds arguing about recasts is making me want to set myself on fire.

Lady of Highgarden: I don’t get what the fuss is about. The Tommen/Margaery relationship is supposed to be ridiculous and not even actually creepy cause we know they aren’t sleeping together, which can be made clear on the show with a line or two of dialogue. Beseides we already have Sansa/Sandor, Sansa/Littlefinger and Sansa/Tyrion, which are more creepy tham Tommen/Marge in my opinion, but no one is freaked out about that. Not saying that anyone should be, cause it’s all great drama, but I just don’t understand the argument that the previous actor was too young to be in a relationship with Marge. For all we know he just wanted to leave.

Creepy, creepy, creepy…can we have another “creepy” please? Seven hells, dear princes and princesses, please suspend your disbelief and enjoy this tremendous adaptation of ASoS, which was written over 13 years ago.

I agree with you, dear Lady, there are many uncomfortably creative storylines in ASoI&F and GoT has even upped the ante a bit (due to HBO tolerance levels) for a few storylines. GRRM intentionally designed the plot of ASoI&F for maximum discomfort and attention…he never thought it would be filmed so he took the hyperbole to another level. And what a ride it has been…and that is exactly why millions of us are tuning in…to see how closely aligned or creatively askew the adaptation will be. I enjoy every uncomfortable moment in GoT as I did with ASoI&F (even though I shredded a few copies after certain chapters were read)…..this fictional world is nothing like our reality (thankfully….or is it?) but it is a grand escape indeed.

OItF…you have mentioned the word “creepy” so many times in your posts, it means nothing anymore.

Lina: I thought Margaery was going to be a disaster because Natalie Dormer was too old, and now I adore what they’ve done with her.

Like Ms. Dormer or not, she seems to be the busiest actress on the GOT set: she’s just signed for the two-part Mockingjay movies (part of The Hunger Games franchise) and she’s in Ridley Scott’s highly anticipated The Counselor (with Michael Fassbender), Ron Howard’s Rush and an indie film I’m not familiar with…..I don’t think anyone else can match that schedule at this point.

DH87: Like Ms. Dormer or not, she seems to be the busiest actress on the GOT set: she’s just signed for the two-part Mockingjay movies (part of The Hunger Games franchise) and she’s in Ridley Scott’s highly anticipated The Counselor (with Michael Fassbender), Ron Howard’s Rush and an indie film I’m not familiar with…..I don’t think anyone else can match that schedule at this point.

Unlike the opinions of previous posts by some, HBO seems to be very lenient with the schedules of their GoT cast, allowing them to be quite busy on non-related projects throughout the year. Good for all, I would assume. Can’t wait to see Ms. Dormer on these other projects…but please don’t fly away from GoT just yet, little bird…

1. I trust Nina Gold, who in my view has an excellent track record.
2. I would not recognise Dean-Charles Chapman from his time as Martyn Lannister.
3. In any case, I doubt that he would look exactly the same as Martyn did due to the passage of time and looking a bit like a relative is not so bad.

[…] unexpected is re-casting news. That is what has happened, though, according to Game of Thrones site winteriscoming.net. Winteriscoming has reported the news that the role of Prince Tommen Baratheon has been recast for […]