She's in storage out in the west, but outdoors. The moist climate can't be good for her. Speculation is that she'll be sold at a loss, and likely for the value of her steel. Should a scrap dealer pony up the cash first, it could be disastrous for a functional and steam worthy locomotive. Serious negotiations should be entered to bring her back to Pennsylvania and return her to coal firing. The RT&HS should own her.

"We no take-a gasoline. We no take-a airplane. We take-a steamship! And that friends, is how we fly to America! - Chico Marx

As a summary, the conversion from coal burning to oil burning was not done is a manner conducive to the design of the 2100's boiler/firebox, causing her to steam poorly and possibly sustain firebox damage. Read these threads over on Trainorders and you'll see discussion from some of the people who actually fired the 2100 in Washington State. Poor, poor locomotive.... Actually talk of her possibly being sold for scrap value.

Since I'm no longer a member and they axed access for my "heritage account", I can only see the first page of these threads.

Some of the most interesting posts are those by Mr. Ross Rowland:

From all credible reports of those who were directly involved in the 2100's operation during this ill fated venture the rube goldberg set-up was an unqualified disaster.

It was impossible to maintain working pressure with anything beyond the throttle barely open and the evaporation rate was so poor that it couldn't even maintain pressure when the gun was turned on!!

In addition it has resulted in substantial damage to the firebox side sheets/combustion chamber due to improper air introduction mechanics/design.

In short, a total failure.

Fortunatly Mr. Payne went broke before anyone was seriously injured or worse, so I guess we need to be grateful for that!!

Darn shame as if he'd only accepted the help that was offerred to him by steam professionals that knew how to convert from coal to oil properly, all this potentially fatal to the machine damage could have been avoided!!

As the old saying goes...you can lead 'em to water............

Ross Rowland

You can make all the excuses,rationalizations etc. that you want but that doesn't alter the bottom line facts in this issue.

For the industrys sake let's hope that this ill fated venture is used as a teaching tool of what NOT to do if one wishes to convert a locomotive from a coal burner to oil. How badly this poorly engineeered system damaged the boiler is an open question and may never be fully addressed. From the available evidence there does appear to be substantial discoloration of areas of the sidesheets in the firebox and combustion chamber which may or may not be indicitive of serious internal damage??? The only way to really know is to do a VERY thorough boiler inspection ( including an ultrasound) by acredited professionals.

With the current state of the mainline steam game being what it is, the chances of anyone being willing to invest that kind of effort/money in the 2100 is EXTREMELY remote. I'm saddened to say that the overwhelming odds are that it will continue to sit in some remote corner of the world and eventually be forgotten. Sure hope I'm wrong but that's the reality.

The one slim chance for revival might be if she does get auctioned off to help pay some of the debt accumulated by Tom Payne and the buyer at that auction is a T-1 lover with a fat checkbook!!

Other than that I'm afraid her continuing value to the steam world will be as a stark real life example of how NOT to do things!!

As a summary, the conversion from coal burning to oil burning was not done is a manner conducive to the design of the 2100's boiler/firebox, causing her to steam poorly and possibly sustain firebox damage. Read these threads over on Trainorders and you'll see discussion from some of the people who actually fired the 2100 in Washington State. Poor, poor locomotive.... Actually talk of her possibly being sold for scrap value.

Since I'm no longer a member and they axed access for my "heritage account", I can only see the first page of these threads.

Some of the most interesting posts are those by Mr. Ross Rowland:

From all credible reports of those who were directly involved in the 2100's operation during this ill fated venture the rube goldberg set-up was an unqualified disaster.

It was impossible to maintain working pressure with anything beyond the throttle barely open and the evaporation rate was so poor that it couldn't even maintain pressure when the gun was turned on!!

In addition it has resulted in substantial damage to the firebox side sheets/combustion chamber due to improper air introduction mechanics/design.

In short, a total failure.

Fortunatly Mr. Payne went broke before anyone was seriously injured or worse, so I guess we need to be grateful for that!!

Darn shame as if he'd only accepted the help that was offerred to him by steam professionals that knew how to convert from coal to oil properly, all this potentially fatal to the machine damage could have been avoided!!

As the old saying goes...you can lead 'em to water............

Ross Rowland

You can make all the excuses,rationalizations etc. that you want but that doesn't alter the bottom line facts in this issue.

For the industrys sake let's hope that this ill fated venture is used as a teaching tool of what NOT to do if one wishes to convert a locomotive from a coal burner to oil. How badly this poorly engineeered system damaged the boiler is an open question and may never be fully addressed. From the available evidence there does appear to be substantial discoloration of areas of the sidesheets in the firebox and combustion chamber which may or may not be indicitive of serious internal damage??? The only way to really know is to do a VERY thorough boiler inspection ( including an ultrasound) by acredited professionals.

With the current state of the mainline steam game being what it is, the chances of anyone being willing to invest that kind of effort/money in the 2100 is EXTREMELY remote. I'm saddened to say that the overwhelming odds are that it will continue to sit in some remote corner of the world and eventually be forgotten. Sure hope I'm wrong but that's the reality.

The one slim chance for revival might be if she does get auctioned off to help pay some of the debt accumulated by Tom Payne and the buyer at that auction is a T-1 lover with a fat checkbook!!

Other than that I'm afraid her continuing value to the steam world will be as a stark real life example of how NOT to do things!!

Sad but true!!

Ross Rowland

Well, Mr. Rowland may be wrong yet. I'm trying to help track down an avalible northern type for Jake Marcus at the Mt. Rainer Scenic. Sadly, I have no idea how to contact Tom Payne, who owns 2100. Maybe Mr. Rowland would know how to get in contact with him, but the website for the 614 went down about a week ago, so I have no idea how to contact him

jrevans wrote:According to another forum, there is supposedly a seven figure lien again the locomotive....

Hu? Well, what's that supposed to mean?

Here's the quote from the other forum:

It's my memory of this whole sad saga that the locomotive now carries a 7 figure lien against it by the wealthy ex-friend of Mr. Paynes who lent him in monies for the ill fated excursion operation with the engine as security for the loan.

The curious thing is why it has taken so long for the lien holder to auction off the asset in order to get at least some of his money back??

Same thing as a lien on your automobile, it means someone (Mr. Payne I presume) took out a loan against the locomotive and the bank really owns it since Mr. Payne is apparently unable to make payments on it. Were it a car, the bank would reposess it and sell it. I think the problem here is not so much because it's a locomotive, but because of it's condition auctioning it off is not likely to bring enough money to be worthwhile.

Which, in relative terms the scrap value on that engine isn't going to be much, less than a tenth of what's owed on it - I'm not sure what the engine weighs or what grade of steel it would be considered, but it's better grade than what scrap automobiles are considered and those are in the $200/ton range as of this writing, so if you assume double that on 100 tons you get $40,000. Of course cut up (IE "processed") it's worth more than that - that's how scrap buyers make their money - but still doesn't bring it up to the debt amount.

The bank may look at it as a case of where waiting it out may be better for them - even if he can sell it for half his asking price that would be better than auctioning it and only getting scrap price, then subtracting auction costs, repo costs, legal fees, etc. and then still trying to collect the balance from the debtor down the road.

The condition of 2100 is excellent ready to go,fully certified,according to Mr.Payne. He invited anyone seriously interested to fly out and inspect anytime. Mr. Payne is quite knowlegable on the T's and the stoker will be included in the deal. It(stoker) is currently on display? in Canada.