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[3.5] A new Daggerspell Guardian: Daggerspell Invoker [PrC]

Daggerspell Invoker

Vreese Drakkar, a daggerspell witch

The Daggerspell Guardians have had a long standing tradition of the arcane arts and druidic magic mixed with their special form of dagger combat, but until recently only were comprised of two branches, the daggerspell mages and daggerspell shapers. In a turn of events, the Daggerspell Guardians have begun to induct new members to their order to increase their presence in the world. One of these new branches, the daggerspell invokers, are a small and rather secretive branch of formerly renegade daggerspell mages who took up fey or otherworldly pacts for power. They had learned to adapt these practices and they returned with their order called for aid. They have begun to teach a new generation of warlocks their art, and while their power is wild and often misunderstood, they stand unified against the dark, wielding the very weapons of the darkness itself.

Almost all daggerspell invokers begin their career as rogues before making their pacts or realizing their full arcane potential as a warlock. Some begin as spellthieves as well. All however must maintain a non-evil alignment; a trait that always causes some instability to the daggerspell invokers however, resulting in a necessity to maintain a chaotic alignment.Hit Die: d6

Weapon and Armor Proficiencies: The daggerspell invoker receives no new weapon or armor proficiencies.

Daggercast (Ex): Daggerspell invokers seamlessly blend the use of their twin daggers with powerful invocation abilities. A daggerspell invoker can perform invocations and utilize his eldritch blast even when holding a dagger in each hand. If a daggerspell invoker holds anything other than a dagger, he must have at least one hand free to cast a spell with somatic or material components. Casting a spell in this way still provokes attacks of opportunity normally.

Invocations: Beginning at 2nd level, you gain new invocations known and an increase in caster level as if you had also gained a level in an invocation-using class to which you belonged before adding the prestige class level. (This includes eldritch blast) You do not, however, gain any other benefit a character of that class would have gained. If you had more than one invocation-using class before becoming a daggerspell invoker, you must decide to which class to add each level for the purpose of determining caster level and invocations known.

Ritual Knives (Su): One of the arts that the warlocks brought to the Daggerspell Guardians was that of the ritual knife. By bathing their daggers in special reagents and performing an arcane ritual over the blade (an act that requires one hour of time to prepare and perform), they attune their blades to their spirit and to their power which grants them two special properties. The character may only ever have two daggers attuned to him at a time. The first is when the daggerspell invoker uses his daggercast ability to perform an eldritch blast, he may change the damage to inflict half slashing damage. The second property is the ability to recall his ritual knives to his hand if they had been dropped or thrown and are within 60ft. To recall his ritual knives, the character must spend a swift action calling his ritual knives to hands.

Sneak Attack (Ex): Beginning at 3rd level, a daggerspell invoker deals an extra 1d6 points of damage when flanking an opponent or at any time when the target would be denied its Dexterity bonus. This extra damage applies to ranged attacks only if the target is within 30 feet. It increases to 2d6 points at 6th level and 3d6 points at 9th level. See the rogue class feature, page 50 of the Player’s Handbook. If a daggerspell invoker gets a sneak attack bonus from another source (such as levels of rogue), the bonuses on damage stack.

Damage Reduction (Su): Daggerspell invoker receive the same benefit from their pact as do traditional warlocks, thus their bodies are also fortified by these forces. At 4th level, daggerspell invoker gain damage reduction 2/cold iron. If the daggerspell invoker had this supernatural ability previously, then this ability adds to it. At 8th level, the daggerspell invoker's damage reduction improves to 4/cold iron.

Fiendish Resilience (Su): Beginning at 4th level, a daggerspell invoker learns the trick of fiendish resilience. Once per day, as a free action, he can enter a state that lasts for 2 minutes. While in this state, the daggerspell invoker gains fast healing 2. At 8th level, the daggerspell invoker's fiendish resilience improves to 4. If the daggerspell invoker had this supernatural ability previously, then this ability adds to it.

Witch's Razor (Su): When using his ritual knives, the daggerspell invoker learns a special technique, allowing him to infuse an attack with an special eldritch blast shape invocation called the Witch's Razor. To use this blast shape invocation, the character throws his knife and channels his eldritch blast to create a 60ft line of destructive eldritch energy. His knife follows the path of the blast where it either sticks to a target or obstacle, or falls to the ground along the path of the attack. All targets along the path of the Witch's Razor are allowed a Reflex save for half damage. Victims along the path of the attack who take damage from this attack also take damage from the daggerspell invoker's dagger as if it were thrown by the character (including any applicable special weapon properties and damage bonuses from the weapon or the character's Strength and applicable feats) along the path of the Witch's Razor. This invocation may be further enhanced by eldritch essence invocations. This is a 4th level equivalent ability.

Eldritch Infusion (Su): Daggerspell invokers learn to utilize their eldritch essence invocations to create a haze of eldritch power around their daggers. As a move action, they channel the potency of their eldritch blast into their ritual knives, temporarily enabling them to inflict extra damage and (if applicable) inflict an eldritch essence secondary effect upon their victim as well (one may simply use his normal unmodified eldritch blast). While this is in effect, the ritual knives add half of their wielder's eldritch blast damage to their weapon strikes (of either normal eldritch energy or elemental damage based on what sort of eldritch essence invocation is used). For example, a daggerspell invoker's eldritch blast inflicts 7d6 points of damage to his enemies, and when he infuses his blast into his ritual knives, they inflict an additional 3d6 points of damage. To add an eldritch essence to the eldritch infusion, they must possess the eldritch essence invocation they wish to use. For example, the above daggerspell invoker who possess the hellrime eldritch essence invocation inflicts an additional 3d6 points of cold damge (instead of arcane damage) and they also inflict the hellrime essence's secondary effect of having to make a Fortitude save or suffer a -2 penalty on the Dexterity from having been struck by the ritual knife. While this ability is in use, the daggerspell invoker is incapable of utilizing his eldritch blast ability (and any eldritch essence invocation he passes into the weapon as well). To end this ability, the daggerspell invoker spends a swift action to recall his eldritch energy from his ritual knives.

Daggerspell Doom (Sp): The most potent technique a daggerspell invoker learns, is the ability to mix the potency of a dark invocation with the well known flurry technique of the Daggerspell Guardians. The daggerspell invoker makes a full attack action and while doing so, as a free action, he may make an eldritch blast attack using the eldritch doom blast shape invocation. This ability may be utilized a number of times per day equal to the daggerspell invoker's Dexterity modifier (minimum 1).

Last edited by ErrantX; 2009-06-11 at 01:17 PM.
Reason: Changed name to Daggerspell Invoker

Re: [3.5] A new Daggerspell Guardian [PrC]

Looks good. I don't have Complete Adventurer handy so I can't compare but it looks good on its own. Now, lets get on to my comments.

First, the 1st level of the PrC is pretty weak. All is allows is for casting with two weapons which is nice, but the level could use a little bit more. Something minor but still useful, just so the 1st level isn't so bland.

Next, the DR/Cold Iron is kinda useless being only 1 or 2 points. Maybe up it by a point or something. I see the flavor use and it fits, it just is quite weak. So you could probably bump it up to 2 and 3 points.

Re: [3.5] A new Daggerspell Guardian [PrC]

Originally Posted by watsyurname529

Looks good. I don't have Complete Adventurer handy so I can't compare but it looks good on its own. Now, lets get on to my comments.

First, the 1st level of the PrC is pretty weak. All is allows is for casting with two weapons which is nice, but the level could use a little bit more. Something minor but still useful, just so the 1st level isn't so bland.

Next, the DR/Cold Iron is kinda useless being only 1 or 2 points. Maybe up it by a point or something. I see the flavor use and it fits, it just is quite weak. So you could probably bump it up to 2 and 3 points.

The other two Daggerspell Guardian classes have daggercast alone in the first level. I saw no reason to change this for this class, to sort of fit to a certain style and theme.

The DR alone isn't all that much, but the Warlock base class also possesses DR/cold iron and fiendish resilience as well, so I wanted to inject a dash of the warlock class itself into it as well. Having looked at other warlock specific prestige classes, I have tended to see a trend of improving those traits. Perhaps I will increase that though. Not many monsters swing cold iron, at least in games I've been in, but just the same.

I have plans to put two more Daggerspell Guardians on the board, so check those out as well. Thanks!

-X

P.S. Was thinking about changing the name on the class, to either Daggerspell Invoker or Daggerspell Warlock. I like Witch, but I'm not solid on it. Thoughts?

Re: [3.5] A new Daggerspell Guardian [PrC]

You might as well give Hideous Blow as a bonus invocation, because it does what you want Eldritch Infusion to do and more (full Eldritch Blast damage, eldritch essence included, instead of just an extra d6). And that's with a suboptimal invocation available at level 1.

Also, Ritual Knives shouldn't have a gp cost. Daggerspell Mage gets free magical slashing with Invocation of the Knife and free returning daggers with Arcane Throw. Don't make the Invoker pay for the same thing.

Re: [3.5] A new Daggerspell Guardian [PrC]

I like having Hideous Blow as an entry requirement because it strikes me as something that a prospective entrant would know anyhow, using their eldritch blast in melee. Think of it as part of the cost for admission, right?

I did however eliminate the cost for the ritual knives and I'm allowing them to recall their knives as a swift action without attacks of opportunity instead of as a move action which provoked attacks of opportunity.

As far as Eldritch Infusion is concerned, eldritch blasts (regardless of eldritch essence invocations aside from vitriolic blast) check for spell resistance, this is a way for the daggerspell invoker to get around the SR by infusing it into a blade. Stick the blade in, yeah, less damage, but at least the secondary effects of the eldritch essence invocation has a chance of effecting the target. That was my thought process anyhow.

Anyhow, thanks for the feedback! I have one more, maybe two more, daggerspell guardians left to make before I'm through. Keep an eye open and let me know what you think of those please

Re: [3.5] A new Daggerspell Guardian [PrC]

Good point, it does make sense for a dagger-wielding warlock to have Hideous Blow. Requirements look fine, then.

I missed the no-spell-resistance aspect of Eldritch Infusion. Now that I think about it, the Invoker will probably Sneak Attack with it anyway, so the lower damage isn't as much of an issue. There are worse trade-offs, I suppose.

I'm glad I could help and looking forward to seeing what your other Daggerspell Guardians look like.

Re: [3.5] A new Daggerspell Guardian: Daggerspell Invoker [PrC]

OK. First, I like the PrC. I've actually been meaning to play a warlock/rogue, and I'm definitely going to try to get the DM to approve this when I get around to it.

But I also know that you posted here looking for criticism. So here you go.

Originally Posted by ErrantX

Witch's Razor (Su): When using his ritual knives, the daggerspell invoker learns a special technique, allowing him to infuse an attack with an special eldritch blast shape invocation called the Witch's Razor. To use this blast shape invocation, the character throws his knife and channels his eldritch blast to create a 60ft line of destructive eldritch energy. His knife follows the path of the blast where it either sticks to a target or obstacle, or falls to the ground. Targets along the path of the Witch's Razor are allowed a Reflex save for half damage. The damage of this attack also includes his dagger's damage as if it were thrown by the character, including any applicable special weapon properties and damage bonuses from the weapon or the character's Strength and applicable feats. This invocation may be further enhanced by eldritch essence invocations. This is a 4th level equivalent ability.

Question about this ability. Who takes the weapon damage? The first target to fail their save? Everyone in the line? Does an attack roll need to be made?

And is it otherwise the same as the Eldritch Line invocation from Dragon Magic, or would the EB effect also stop when the daggers stick into something?

You might want to clarify.

A question about Eldritch Infusion. It doesn't say anything about being discharged, so once you've spent the move action to activate it, you have it until you end it. This means that the following round you could full attack and get the extra damage on every hit. Am I reading that correctly, or did you mean for the energy to be discharged? A DI with brimstone blast would deal an additional 3d6 (min) and force a save for 2d6 more, per hit (The 2d6 more would only be once a target). All before EB boosting items. Since we're TWFing and are at 13th level, we'll have at least 3 attacks. Remember we're stacking this on top of a probably sneak attack for another 3d6. And we still have our swift action to play with. This seems a little over powered to me.

Why aren't you just letting the DR stack with the DR from the warlock class. It seems like you're punishing the character for taking more levels of warlock before entering the class.

Daggerspell Doom looks really cool, but why is it based on the Dex mod? It seems more logical that it would be based on Cha. Cha is an important stat for both rogues and warlocks, so it's not like you're making the class MAD.

Also, about having hideous blow as a pre-req, you do seem pretty set on it, and it does have good flavor, but Warlocks get so few invocations. It's not like a wizard who can just buy some scrolls and meet prerequisites. Hideous blow is a terrible invocation. Once you have Eldritch Infusion, it's hard to imagine any situation where you would use HB, but you can't swap it out or you'll lose access to the class abilities. The two martial feats seem to cover the "must be combat oriented" part of the pre-reqs.

Re: [3.5] A new Daggerspell Guardian: Daggerspell Invoker [PrC]

I must say I like your Daggerspell Guardian line of PrCs. Please bear in mind that any ability that I didn't comment on, I find no need to since they're well-balanced/flavourful/fun.

So now that the ground rules are set out, let us begin

Damage Reduction (Su): DR/Cold Iron is no big deal, so I'd say just let the ability increase your existing DR by 2, and then by 4, instead of just by 1. That said, the requirements for this PrC ensure that you are a Warlock 5/Rogue 1 before entering the class, so you'd have DR 1/Cold Iron anyways. So being in this PrC, you end up with DR 5/Cold Iron at level 13 instead of DR 4/Cold Iron at level 15. I don't see how that's a huge balance problem

Witch's Razor (Su): I have the same concerns as Yucca on this one. Very succinctly put, Yucca.

Eldritch Infusion (Su): This ability is cool, but you use ritual knives and ritual knife intermittently throughout its description. Am I to understand that you infuse your Eldritch Blast ability into 1 dagger or 2? If you can infuse your EB into both daggers, take care not to let the DMs complain about the amount of d6s

To demonstrate my point, let's look at the extra damage you get. When you first get this ability, you have a minimum of +3d6 SA damage and 6d6 EB damage (9d6 with this ability). When flanking an opponent, you can make 3 attacks (or 4 if you have Improved TWF), each dealing an additional 12d6 damage. Even on normal full attacks, you deal an additional 9d6 damage on each of your 3 (or 4) attacks. I know DMs who'll balk at that, but it's really not that bad compared to a fully optimized Eldritch Glaive using Warlock (who does even more with Hellfire Warlock while making touch attacks).

In short, very cool ability. I like it a lot

Daggerspell Doom (Sp): You can't access Dark Invocations at this level if you went Warlock 5/Rogue 1/DI 10, so I'm assuming this is an exception to the rule? Seeing as you get 1 less invocation than a normal Warlock at level 20, I think you should get the blast shape invocation as a bonus invocation as well.

In conclusion, nice class, and the best IMO of the DS Guardian line (it's just because I prefer Warlocks over normal casters, too much prepping kills me )

Re: [3.5] A new Daggerspell Guardian: Daggerspell Invoker [PrC]

OK. First, I like the PrC. I've actually been meaning to play a warlock/rogue, and I'm definitely going to try to get the DM to approve this when I get around to it.

But I also know that you posted here looking for criticism. So here you go.

(Witch's Razor)Question about this ability. Who takes the weapon damage? The first target to fail their save? Everyone in the line? Does an attack roll need to be made?

And is it otherwise the same as the Eldritch Line invocation from Dragon Magic, or would the EB effect also stop when the daggers stick into something?

You might want to clarify.

While I thought it was clear, you're not the first to ask about it so I rewrote parts of the invocation to make it more clear. All targets along the path of the Witch's Razor take the throw dagger's damage. I was unaware of the Eldritch Line invocation existing, so this is a mildly better version of it as a free invocation then. *shrug*

A question about Eldritch Infusion. It doesn't say anything about being discharged, so once you've spent the move action to activate it, you have it until you end it. This means that the following round you could full attack and get the extra damage on every hit. Am I reading that correctly, or did you mean for the energy to be discharged? A DI with brimstone blast would deal an additional 3d6 (min) and force a save for 2d6 more, per hit (The 2d6 more would only be once a target). All before EB boosting items. Since we're TWFing and are at 13th level, we'll have at least 3 attacks. Remember we're stacking this on top of a probably sneak attack for another 3d6. And we still have our swift action to play with. This seems a little over powered to me.

3d6 bonus damage averages around 8 points of damage. It looks impressive, but as we all know, Batman gets it done while the Blaster cries himself to sleep. Daggerspell mages and shapers can get small bonus damage or infuse spells directly into their daggers for scads of fun or use daggers for claws. Warlocks... not so much. This way, they lose their range for bonus melee damage. It's -exactly- like Eldritch Glaive for the two-weapon fighter. It only does -half- EB damage, has no reach, but still stacks with the regular dagger damage. Not to sound snarky, really is not what I'm going for, but everyone is OMG Eldritch Glaive and wielding an 8d6 reach weapon is totally fine but a 1d4+4d6 weapon is out? Come on If they can get their sneak attack damage on top of it, that's great (so it's 1d4+4d6+3d6? Same damage as EG!), but lots of things come up immune or resistant to sneak attack damage in higher levels unless you're crafty. This helps preserve the arcane destructive nature of the warlock while keeping in feel with the nature of the daggerspell guardians, I feel.

Why aren't you just letting the DR stack with the DR from the warlock class. It seems like you're punishing the character for taking more levels of warlock before entering the class.

I changed it, 1 DR isn't the end of the world.

Daggerspell Doom looks really cool, but why is it based on the Dex mod? It seems more logical that it would be based on Cha. Cha is an important stat for both rogues and warlocks, so it's not like you're making the class MAD.

Because Daggerspell Flurry is based on Dex. Check it out in Complete Adventurer. Otherwise I agree with you.

Also, about having hideous blow as a pre-req, you do seem pretty set on it, and it does have good flavor, but Warlocks get so few invocations. It's not like a wizard who can just buy some scrolls and meet prerequisites. Hideous blow is a terrible invocation. Once you have Eldritch Infusion, it's hard to imagine any situation where you would use HB, but you can't swap it out or you'll lose access to the class abilities. The two martial feats seem to cover the "must be combat oriented" part of the pre-reqs.

The two feats and Hideous Blow are the entry fees. As I said above, it makes sense that a Warlock using his eldritch blast in melee would learn this invocation, and Eldritch Infusion builds off of it. The other two feats the same as the other Daggerspell Guardians.

Again. I liked the class.

Why thank you for your critiques and for your praise :)

Originally Posted by Pramxnim

I must say I like your Daggerspell Guardian line of PrCs. Please bear in mind that any ability that I didn't comment on, I find no need to since they're well-balanced/flavourful/fun.

So now that the ground rules are set out, let us begin

Damage Reduction (Su): DR/Cold Iron is no big deal, so I'd say just let the ability increase your existing DR by 2, and then by 4, instead of just by 1. That said, the requirements for this PrC ensure that you are a Warlock 5/Rogue 1 before entering the class, so you'd have DR 1/Cold Iron anyways. So being in this PrC, you end up with DR 5/Cold Iron at level 13 instead of DR 4/Cold Iron at level 15. I don't see how that's a huge balance problem

Addressed it above, I agree with you both.

Witch's Razor (Su): I have the same concerns as Yucca on this one. Very succinctly put, Yucca.

Agreed, hopefully I addressed it to your liking. Check the edit.

Eldritch Infusion (Su): This ability is cool, but you use ritual knives and ritual knife intermittently throughout its description. Am I to understand that you infuse your Eldritch Blast ability into 1 dagger or 2? If you can infuse your EB into both daggers, take care not to let the DMs complain about the amount of d6s

To demonstrate my point, let's look at the extra damage you get. When you first get this ability, you have a minimum of +3d6 SA damage and 6d6 EB damage (9d6 with this ability). When flanking an opponent, you can make 3 attacks (or 4 if you have Improved TWF), each dealing an additional 12d6 damage. Even on normal full attacks, you deal an additional 9d6 damage on each of your 3 (or 4) attacks. I know DMs who'll balk at that, but it's really not that bad compared to a fully optimized Eldritch Glaive using Warlock (who does even more with Hellfire Warlock while making touch attacks).

In short, very cool ability. I like it a lot

I switched to knife the once to show what a single attack with Eldritch Infusion would look like. It can be infused to one knife if you wanted, I guess, but it's presumed you'd infuse it to both knives. And thank you for understanding that it's really the same as Eldritch Glaive, more or less.

Daggerspell Doom (Sp): You can't access Dark Invocations at this level if you went Warlock 5/Rogue 1/DI 10, so I'm assuming this is an exception to the rule? Seeing as you get 1 less invocation than a normal Warlock at level 20, I think you should get the blast shape invocation as a bonus invocation as well.

Indeed it is, it's a freebie. It's a variation of Eldritch Doom in that it's got a finite limit per day, but while you're doing it you can unleash a full attack on an opponent or two within your range. Soften them up for the boom. A 16th level character is definitely going to packing a high Dex modifier for this class, so they should get a decent number of uses out of it. The free additional invocation (so that'd be like getting two invocations this level) isn't really necessary, IMHO.

In conclusion, nice class, and the best IMO of the DS Guardian line (it's just because I prefer Warlocks over normal casters, too much prepping kills me )