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Is their a more overrated program in all of college sports? What has Notre Dame done lately? Shoot they haven't won a bowl game in years. Yet we get every game they play stuffed down our throats on prime time TV. And whenever they win 6 or 7 games people act as if they could beat an NFL team. Look I know they have history. But so does Army. At some point you have to produce on the field. Notre Dame has not done that in a very long time. Their recruits are always overrated. They schedule weak opponents. And they have a huge advantage by not having to play in a conference. ..... It bothers me when programs/franchises are able to live off of their pasts. When I see Notre Dame get more coverage then more deserving teams it gets old fast. Now I say this next statement as a Big 10 guy. Imagine if Notre Dame was in the Sec! They couldn't hold a candle to most of the programs in the SEC. If Notre Dame was in the SEC they'd be forced to play tough opponents week after week, while being exposed as a very average football program. The "fighting Irish" should be renamed the "not very physical, not very tough, not really wanting to fight Irish".

You know what i get sick of Bims? people moaning like little girls who have had there barbie taken away from them. People act like it's our fault that we are mentioned everywhere, and just for the record Bims, when we are mentioned in the national media we are ridiculed and berated, so all of us would rather we were just ignored, one thing i will agree with you on is that we have done nothing lately, we have yet to win a bowl in the 2000's, we could win a bowl this year, although it won't be a prestigous bowl, 2010 is when we will be challenging. Our recruits are not over hyped, they are all ranked and analysed before they commit to ND, if they don't plan out it's not because they received special ranking treatment because they were at ND, it's simply because not everything go's to plan, whether it be players moving from high school to College or from College to the NFL, case in point Alex Smtih. NBC offered us a deal, what were we to do? say no thankyou, take your millions of dollars we will satisfy everyone and not have our games broadcast? and not put our school in a advanced financial situation which will enable us to further our advanced research not only on football but world affairs as well. At some point people are going to have to grow a pair and get over the fact that we are a worldwide popular programme, not just for our football, but because of our academics as well. Let me know Bims, what % of there student atheltes (especially black student athletes) do most Division 1 schools graduate? and what % of there student athletes do Notre Dame graduate?, we are among the top tiered schools with Clemson and Northwestern at Graduating our athletes......., between 1995-1998 we graduated 98% of our scolarship athletes, at the same time the Division 1 average was 54% (Black atheletes graduating) and 76% (white athletes) I think you will find its a massive difference, we take care of our players, we offer them the oppurtunity to ready themselves for life after college, not all 80 odd players will be going to the NFl, we need to make sure that they have a path after college, and thats exactly what we do, we have high entrance standards, academically respected by national businesses, so we are not always going to be able to compete, some of the best athletes are just that because there studies come a very distant second, so maybe we have not been the best but we are one of the best schools for STUDENT-athletes, and we deserve that reognition. We have a national following we have to schedule different teams, teams wan't to play us, this years schedule is not the best but after a 4-12 season and a young team, what do you expct, joining a conference would not be a sound business move. Trying to maintain a storied programme like we have you need to make the right business moves, as a conference team we would have to share TV rights and Bowl money, it makes absolutely no sense at all, we have historic rivalries that would be in danger of dissapearing if we joined a conference, We are not always in control of our schedule either, we schedule the likes of Michigan and USC and Stanford, Boston College years in advance, we are commited to playing Michigan through 2016, is it our fault that there programme sucks this year? Also for your information we are notorious for having a hard schedule, our schedule was ranked 7th in terms of difficulty in the 2000's, eighth in the 1990's and the most difficult collective schedule in the 1980's. Tradition matters, and the uninformed opinions of media junkies do not.

Nothing personal against you Cubbie10. And I didn't read most of what you wrote because it's the usual ND grad retort. As soon as I saw you bring up Black athlete graduation numbers I knew you were reaching. This was about a football programs accomplishmentson the field. That's all. If we were going to count academic accomplishments then Vandy would get a ton of pub every year. But this was about the simple product on the field. So I don't care about ND and their continuous lowering of standards on their entrance for football players. Because even though ND will thump it's chest about holding its strict academic code even to great football players, it's simply BS and not true. So again I was just talking about on the field. And on the field ND has done nothing. ..... For the record once a recruit commits to ND their rating instantly goes up. Just like Duke in baseketball. So if a 3 start prospect commits to ND they get boosted to 4 star alot of the time. ..... Look what a program does in the past is great, and should be celebrated. But at some point you have to be held accountable for what you've done in the present time.

Nothing personal Bims but after the first couple sentences i stopped reading, it's the usual anti ND, short sighted analyse that we see everyday. For everytime you hear about ND, we hear 10 people talking rubbish about us, i just think people need to get a new topic to talk about. We are not the second most succcessfull football programme with high academic standards for nothing after all this is a COLLEGE football programme and academics are as important as the actual football, but ignore that and just look at the past 10 years thats fine, but over the years we get a little bit tired of people talking trash, it god old in the in early 90's and for me in the late 90's so now i have very little time for people who post exactly what you posted, just like i have very little time for people who talk trash about the Cubs because they haven't won in so long, we are still a great franchise even without a World Series win in the past 100 years, Notre Dame is still a great programme despite not having a national title in 20 years.

Nothing personal Bims but after the first couple sentences i stopped reading, it's the usual anti ND, short sighted analyse that we see everyday. For everytime you hear about ND, we hear 10 people talking rubbish about us, i just think people need to get a new topic to talk about. We are not the second most succcessfull football programme with high academic standards for nothing after all this is a COLLEGE football programme and academics are as important as the actual football, but ignore that and just look at the past 10 years thats fine, but over the years we get a little bit tired of people talking trash, it god old in the in early 90's and for me in the late 90's so now i have very little time for people who post exactly what you posted.

I don't think people are as anti Notre Dame as your making them out to be. I think Notre Dame people try to counter be called overrated with playing the victum. My point had nothing to do with academics. It was about the play on the field. What goes on behind the black curtain(money exchanging hands, the lowering of academic standars) goes in in every program. That includes Notre Dame. So the holier than though act gets old from Notre Dame people. On the field what has Notre Dame done? Notre Dame has not won a bowl game since the 1994 cotton bowl. That's 14 years ago! Notre Dame had some great years. But since 1977 they have won 1 national championship. I think people are just tired of Notre Dame being stuffed down our throats. They are not a top program in college football.

If you don't want to hear about ND, then don't go round starting topics about how overated we are etc we don't have a say on when the media covers us and when they don't, we don't vote in the polls, so if anything write to the likes of MNSBC and Fox and every other media outlet to complain. I'm putting to you that it's a college programme, so on field has everything to do with off field, and if you can't understand that, there is very little point talking to you about it. Talk about pro teams that are rubbish because that is a isolated programme. We still have some of the toughest standards, and we are not loweing them as much as other schools are, the arguent for lowering entrance has been going on for over 30 years, Ara Parseghian coached when lowering standards were demanded between 1964 and 1974, and they were rejected and we won 2 national titles, if you think that we are loweing our standards like the teams in the SEC you are amazingly deluded or have been reading too much ESPN, we have a limited number of proposition players, in fact i think we are allowed 2 players, so whilst we may not win as often as we once did, it's because of these standards. How many programmes can boast our academic pedigree with a storied football history, teams with the better SAT's like Stanford and Northwestern don't have football programme to match, keeping the balance between academics and athletic success is a very hard task, ND is a beacon of light in a ever increasing NCAA mockery institution that brings in players to play there years of eligiblity and then dumps them on the sideline when they are finished, you mention the SEC, is it any wonder that there rise to prominence as one of the best conferences in college football has come at the same time that they have lowered there admission standards to the NCAA minimum? So don't say that success on the field has nothing to do with Academcs, because it is the worst argument i think i have ever heard, and i have heard some bad ones, no offense, it has everything to do with it. I would rather us keep our programme the way it is than lower to the SEC standards and win every year. Tim Brown said this a year or so ago:

Quote:

"I've asked kids why don't they consider Notre Dame, and they say it's too tough. The kids these days are just looking for the easy way. If Notre Dame doesn't win games because they don't lower their standards, I can live with that. But to lower your standards just to win football games is a wrong decision"

And that's fine, we have won with our standards before and we will win again

Quote:

"Notre Dame continually resists becoming a full-fledged member of intercollegiate athletics' mainstream. It still requires math and foreign languages for admission, and it does not offer majors that contain words like "leisure" and "recreation." It does not recruit from junior colleges, does not provide football dormitories or special training tables. It does not allow booster clubs or independent fund-raising by the Athletic Department. It expects any revenue surplus from athletics to be available for academic purposes" Notre Dame also ranks sixth in the percentage of its students who study abroad. Its graduation rate is among the top 5 in the country and its alumni are celebrated for their loyalty.Notre Dame is one of just five universities to rank consistently both in the top 25 in the U.S. News & World Report survey of America's best colleges and the Sears Directors Cup standings of the best overall athletic programs.

NBC have us because we are a storied franchise and one with certain standards that demonstrate everything that is great about a college football programme. It peple didn't try to undermine the programe so much then people would not have to highlight why it stands above many others. So if you are sick of hearing about it stop talkign trash on it.

Not that i expect you will read any of the above, but it was important

I have a good friend, who i have known for many years and i quote him now:

Quote:

"I can't stand ND, not because of there programe just because of the attention they get, i will admit that it is jealousy, i think other programes should get the same treatment. However as much as i hate them, i respect them, they can't be held accountable for the media, i like the fans, i like the tradition, but the media paints them in such a negative light with there over attention that i take a dislike for them, more schools should be like Notre Dame, and they should receive the same treatment"

I couldn't agree more with this, he doesn't like ND, and he reminds me about it every single day, but he has a enlightened view, and i can respect that.

I bring up this topic on the heels of another weak Notre Dame team. I'm simply expressing being tired of the overrated Notre Dame football program. Me expressing that does no harm nor does it further the popularity of Notre Dame. ..... Please save your quotes telling us how hard it is for players to get into Notre Dame. It's BS. I'm sure I can find quotes from Hitler telling us how he would never oppress one indivual race(relax waveland). Notre Dame is a PR machine. But make no mistake about it they lower their standards for the right recruits. The only programs who are true to their academic standards in Division 1A are Vandy and Northwestern. ..... Yes we know why NBC keeps Notre Dame under contract. And that's exactly the point. Because they WERE a good football program. ..... You gotta love how Notre Dame is allowed to stay out of a conference as well. Talk about a BS advantage. ..... Look I get that you're a grad and you're coming from a totally biased view point. But lets stop swirling in and out from the truth. It's terribly weak for anyone to go with the whole " Notre Dame is less competitive because of their high academic standards" BS excuse. It's just not toally true. Notre Dame does have high standards at the face. But deeper not so much. Students might have those high GPA's/class rankings based on the crappy schools they go too, but not the ACT's to match. The SEC for the most part does have terribly low standards. Heck so do alot of schools. But lets stop thinking Notre Dame's is soooo much higher. Lets be honest about this and just admit that Notre Dame is not very competitive anymore because of the Coaches that they have brought in. One last giant factor is that Notre Dame just isn't tough/physical.

I won't post in this thread again, i think your reasoning is pathetic, your argument is pathetic and the fact you even made a thread to talk about a programe you don't like is pathetic. So moving on

So we can only post about things that we like? We can only express ourselves about things we enjoy? That would be a real crappy way to live life. ..... I think we both know my argument is very fair. And my reasoning is very solid. I'm just not sure you can give a good retort to most of what I said. So instead of making an attempt, you question the validity of the topic at hand. That's a quick out into having to say anthing with substance. No biggy. I wasn't being personal. I was just posing a question/expressing a view. But I'm always very open to hearing the other side of the story.

Norte Dame with yet another tough matchup today. They will be facing the very scary 0-6 Washington Huskies. Unfortunately Norte Dame will make a bowl game this season on the tails of yet another weak schedule. They have 4 wins this season. Those wins are against San Diego St(1-6), Michigan(2-5), Purdue(2-5), and Stanford(4-4). Notre Dame has yet to face a good team. The only team on Norte Dame's schedule that's actually a good college football team is USC. Norte Dame is always good at putting teams they try and convince us are solid on their schedule. But in reality those teams are solid at best. I don't care what Pittsburgh is ranked. They are a mediocre team in a mediocre conference. Boston College is another team from a less than stellar conference who is overachieving. Boston College is not a good team. In Norte Dame's 2 loses they lost to solid teams at best. Neither a good team. North Carolina is up and down. Michigan St. is a solid team in a weak conference. So the 2 teams that are solid Notre Dame couldn't even beat. ..... I know these games are scheduled in advance. But have some balls Notre Dame! Start scheduling teams in the Big 12 or the SEC. Start playing real football programs! Stop hiding behind the armed forces teams, Boston College, and gimmie wins. While teams like Texas, LSU, and USC play real games during the season. Norte Dame is able to play Syracuse, Navy, and every other weak opponet to get cheap wins. College football has plenty of unfair aspects to it: The Big 10 and Pac 10 not having to play conference championship games while much tougher conferences like the Big 12 and SEC do. The weak non conference games that Big 10 and Pac 10 teams are allowed to play, yet still be ranked highly in the standings. Seriously who has Penn St. played? And Notre Dame being allowed to stay out of a conference and avoid both a conference championship game, and manditory tough conference games. When it comes down to it the only good football teams who play tough competition every week are in the Sec and Big 12. Teams like Notre Dame, Penn St., Ohio St., Minnesota, or Northwestern wouldn't be a top 4 team in either conference!