Bara, I wish I could swim. The pool at my gym is only open during the summer and it's a ridiculously high charge on top of the membership fee to use it.

Nika, not running is multifaceted. I was having some issues with my ankle and arch that even high impact (faster) walking was exacerbating. I have improved the support in my shoes and altered my treadmill time to a higher incline and slower pace, and that has helped. My biggest concern with running on the treadmill is that I am klutzy as shit. I feel like i'm going to fall off at a 4mph walk. The weather will soon be too ungodly hot to run outside. i was going to ride my bike to work today but it's going to be 90 when I get off.

Good lord... and it's supposed to snow here for the next three days. >.<

I can do treadmill running, but I don't like it. I hate the sound of my feet hitting the damn thing... makes me feel like I'm 300 pounds and everyone can hear my feet (and all of my body weight) slapping on the running carpet. My gym has a track though, so I use that. But I don't think a lot of gyms have that.

The track also has wayyyy less people on it. What I see a lot of women doing is running a few laps, then walking a few, rinse and repeat. Seems to work pretty well for them if they're not yet up to full on running. Although please, for all that is sacred, don't be one of those people that talks on their frigging cell phones while walking around the track. OH MY GOD I WANT TO KILL THEM.

I just bought these puppies last night. The picture doesn't quite do it justice because they look almost neon irl. I'm super pleased about them if only because my last pair was frigging PINK because that's all they had at the time.

See a podiatrist for a running shoe recommendation. Certain manufacturers have better shoes for different foot types. I'm a New Balance guy, personally. But I know plenty of Adidas people and some Nikes.

Second the swimming suggestion. You can try to find a gym with a lap pool or make friends with someone who's got a pool at their house? Swimming is a zero-impact full body workout that runs through the range of motion.

- I'm not Jesus, but I can turn water into Kool-Aid.- A Sergeant in motion outranks an officer who doesn't know what the hell is going on.- A demolitions specialist at a flat run outranks everybody.

Arnock wrote:If you can't find a pool without paying an arm and a leg, do you have a bike? Cycling isn't quite the full-body workout that swimming is, but it's a LOT easier on the joints than running.

It's funny you say that. My husband is crazy for the bicycles. He has 4 and plus a tandem we share and I have a Dutch bike. Now that the weather is better we'll ride more.

I use the exercise bike at the gym and the treadmill. I vary the treadmill from 2.5-4mph and 12-15% incline. 15% is the max it goes up to. I also walk a ton at work, I average about 10k steps a day but often hit 13k. This is part of the reason I wonder if I need to focus on toning since added cardio isn't helping anymore.

4mph is a 15 minute mile. You have a lot of room for improvement there; that's barely above a walk.

Shoot for running 1km nonstop (jogging, obviously - not outright RUNNING). That should take a week or two. Don't worry about how long it takes or how slow you seem to be moving (when I first started running, my jogging pace was actually slower than my brisk walking pace, so don't worry about it too terribly much if you think you're too slow). Then increase your distance until you're able to jog 3km without walking - roughly another week or two. After that, start working on time - a good 3km time target to hit is the 14 minute mark (7.5 minute mile, roughly).

- I'm not Jesus, but I can turn water into Kool-Aid.- A Sergeant in motion outranks an officer who doesn't know what the hell is going on.- A demolitions specialist at a flat run outranks everybody.

Fivelives wrote:After that, start working on time - a good 3km time target to hit is the 14 minute mark (7.5 minute mile, roughly).

Are you kidding me? For a female who barely runs?

I have run relatively regularly for the past three years and most of my distances are around 5k which usually end around the 30 to 33 minute mark. You could argue that I'm not pushing myself to my potential, but I think setting the mark at 14 minutes for 3k is a bit too high of a bar for someone who is only starting to run.

I said target, not "GO DO THIS RIGHT NOW" - nobody's going to cut their run times literally in half without a buildup to that. Figured that was obvious.

And I know plenty of people (both male and female) who've gone from completely sedentary to a 7.5 minute mile in a matter of weeks. Granted, that was with drill sergeants "motivating" them, but still. It can be done.

As far as being clumsy is concerned, use the handrails. If you have problems with keeping a steady pace on a treadmill, consider finding one that's not powered and isn't going to force the pace on you; or run on a track or trail until you get used to keeping a steady pace. That's the most likely culprit there - if you slow down on a treadmill that's going at a fixed speed, it's going to take your feet out from under you or dump you unceremoniously off the back end.

Incline or no incline, a slow walking pace is going to plateau fairly quickly and will stop being a benefit. What you're doing is definitely good for you, but if you want to continue then you have to push it. No effective workout is ever easy.

- I'm not Jesus, but I can turn water into Kool-Aid.- A Sergeant in motion outranks an officer who doesn't know what the hell is going on.- A demolitions specialist at a flat run outranks everybody.

Still missing the "I have joint issues" part and the "on an incline" part.

I have joint issues too and shouldn't even be walking as exercise (I have chondromalacia patellae) - but I too walk on an incline (usually around 11% at a walking pace of around 6.5 km/h - or 4 mph). 4 mph is not a slow walking pace - the CDC sets "brisk pace" at 3 mph or 5 km/h, and add an incline and it becomes an intense and brisk walk.

Granted you will level out at all levels of intensity if you just stay at that level and "get used to it".

Average walking speed is around 3.5mph. 4mph is not brisk, it's average. My personal average is 6mph (9-10 minute mile, measured the last time I walked to the gas station to buy cigarettes. Ironic, I know) including the steep hill I live on here. My fitness level is pretty high though, so YMMV.

Joint issues respond pretty well to exercise. Nothing will ever get rid of the pain completely, but exercise will reduce it. Pretty sure it has something to do with dropping weight and firming up the small muscles that help stabilize the joints. Either way, joint issues are no excuse for not exercising and pushing yourself. The "on an incline" part doesn't matter much if you're hitting a plateau and not pushing yourself farther.

If you absolutely, positively can't run, then don't try. Use an elliptical machine or bike, or ideally, find a pool and swim laps. If you have a pool but can't swim, then walk back and forth in water that's at least waist deep. If you really want to get better, there are ways. There are always ways.

I have a coworker who suffers from rheumatoid arthritis. Her hands and feet, mostly, but also her knees. She runs in the Phoenix marathon every year despite that, and her time this year? Just over 4 hours. She's also 55 years old. Joint pain is no excuse, if a 55 year old woman with RA can finish a marathon ahead of younger, healthier people (men and women both) then you can work your way up to a jog and improve your health from wherever you're at now. You may never set a world speed record, but you can see improvement.

- I'm not Jesus, but I can turn water into Kool-Aid.- A Sergeant in motion outranks an officer who doesn't know what the hell is going on.- A demolitions specialist at a flat run outranks everybody.

Excersise does not alleviate joint pain coming from "defective" joints.Arthritis is another beast entirely, and cannot be compared to defective joints in that regard - athritic joints are not "defective", they are in a state of "disrepair", and can be repaired by useage which increases the "lubrication" of the joint. Arthritis is primarily a state of inflammation.

A gear does not get repaired from use if it is missing one or more teeth, but if its just stuck, it can get going by being lubricated and used, while it may be "painful" to the gear to get unstuck, once thats done, its all downhill.

Exercise does alleviate joint pain coming from "defective" joints. Diet and exercise is pretty much the closest thing we have to an all-natural panacea. There's a huge weight of evidence for it, and for any joint condition you can think of there are any number of studies done showing the benefits of exercise for the affected joint.

Either way, I rather imagine continuing this discussion is going to be the equivalent of beating my head against a brick wall. So I'm exiting now.

So you're going to tell me that you consider a brisk walk to be anything faster than 4.69 inches per second? The average step length of a human being is 31", so you're taking roughly one step every 6.6 seconds and consider that a brisk walk?

... There's something wrong with that picture.

- I'm not Jesus, but I can turn water into Kool-Aid.- A Sergeant in motion outranks an officer who doesn't know what the hell is going on.- A demolitions specialist at a flat run outranks everybody.

Nooska wrote:Excersise does not alleviate joint pain coming from "defective" joints.Arthritis is another beast entirely, and cannot be compared to defective joints in that regard - athritic joints are not "defective", they are in a state of "disrepair", and can be repaired by useage which increases the "lubrication" of the joint. Arthritis is primarily a state of inflammation.

A gear does not get repaired from use if it is missing one or more teeth, but if its just stuck, it can get going by being lubricated and used, while it may be "painful" to the gear to get unstuck, once thats done, its all downhill.

As someone else with bad knees, I can attest that some exercise is just brutal on me. It doesn't help that I'm still trying to lose a ton of weight, but with 3 arthroscopic procedures per knee to clean out junk from the joint, I take what I can, when I can.

I'm hoping that baseball season will help me ease into losing more, and alleviating the stress on my already bad knees.

Fivelives wrote:Exercise does alleviate joint pain coming from "defective" joints. Diet and exercise is pretty much the closest thing we have to an all-natural panacea. There's a huge weight of evidence for it, and for any joint condition you can think of there are any number of studies done showing the benefits of exercise for the affected joint.

Either way, I rather imagine continuing this discussion is going to be the equivalent of beating my head against a brick wall. So I'm exiting now.

So you're going to tell me that you consider a brisk walk to be anything faster than 4.69 inches per second? The average step length of a human being is 31", so you're taking roughly one step every 6.6 seconds and consider that a brisk walk?

... There's something wrong with that picture.

Along with the math mistake there, 31 inches is the average stride for a man, not human beings. Stride length is generally a function of height, so women have a smaller average stride of about 26" inches. I believe that ends up being just about 3 (2.7) steps per second at a 15 minute mile pace.

That aside, as far as injuries and joint problems and exercise it really depends. Strengthening the supporting muscles/ligaments/tendons etc around joints can often help with pain and it's really great at preventing injuries in the first place, but depending on the ailment exercise can also irritate and inflame a problem.

Obviously, if you have joint issues, it's probably worth seeking professional advice before undertaking a significant change in exercise.

And just to finish up the defective joint argument - I'll take the word of the orthopedic surgeon that has examined my knees over someone on a forum painting in broad strokes and comparing athritis to any joint pain.

I might add that for many people injuries to the ligaments will also feel like pains from the joint unless they know better, and excercise will most certainly not help the problem there.In fact exercise is good in moderate amounts for the general health, however exercise in non-moderate amounts is probably one of the most common causes of injuries and you need to not exercise so much as to induce excessive wear on the body - there is a reason manual labourers have a lower life expectancy than academics, despite getting generally more "exercise" - and its not all about income.

The step length is the one I found on a reputable source for quick and (very) dirty napkin math - men average 33-34" and women average 26-27" for an overall average of right around 31". I can try and find it again if you want to compare.

Manual laborers have a lower life expectancy than academics for a multitude of reasons, not just exercise or income. I highly doubt it has anything to do with exercise, for that matter. Off the top of my head: diet, education, dangerous work environments (heavy equipment is far more dangerous to work around than a desk with a computer), sleeping habits, etc. If you're trying to say that exercise beyond "oh, I think I'm going to park at the end of the row and walk into the store instead of parking right up front" is bad for you, then this probably isn't a thread you should be hanging around in, quite frankly.

Rheumatoid arthritis is an autoimmune disease along the lines of Lupus etc that affects joints and bones in addition to internal organs. It has a lot more in common than you think with chondromalacia patella. CP is soft cartilage in the knee. RA attacks cartilage, basically eating it whole. It's an entirely different beast than standard osteoarthritis, so the comparison is more valid than you think.

"Many people" can't tell the difference between a sharp stabbing pain that radiates outward in pulses from a distinct point of injury, and a dull, throbbing, burning ache deep in the joint that can't be directly pinpointed to a single spot? I've never once come across anyone who can't differentiate between types of pain, no matter how severe it is or where it is. And if you're hurting before you start your workout routine, it's fairly obvious that the workout isn't what caused it. If you get injured during your workout, then it's also fairly obvious that the workout contributed to it in some fashion.

The point I've been trying to stress since the beginning of this whole thing is that "moderate" does not mean doing the same intensity exercise over and over. The intensity has to continue to increase in order for benefits to be maintained. Essentially, what was moderate last week isn't going to be moderate today. Use whatever excuse you want to justify not pushing yourself, but then don't complain about not seeing any results if you do. It's true that any activity is better than no activity, but if you're trying to lose weight and get healthier then push through your plateaus.

- I'm not Jesus, but I can turn water into Kool-Aid.- A Sergeant in motion outranks an officer who doesn't know what the hell is going on.- A demolitions specialist at a flat run outranks everybody.