Pope Francis, Another Zealot?

Take a good hard look into the life of new pope. To give an overview he thinks that:

Homosexuality is still a sin. He tells people to respect homosexuals, but whent the Argintinian government is going to make sam-sex marriage legal he says, "Let's not be naive, we're not talking about a simple political battle; it is a destructive pretension against the plan of God. We are not talking about a mere bill, but rather a machination of the Father of Lies that seeks to confuse and deceive the children of God."

During his early life he gave up all his fancy posetions (personal cook, facy place to live, chauffeured limo) and made a pledge of poverty. This sounds awefully noble right? Wrong, look at why he had those things to start out with (because he was a cardinal). Think about what the Bible verson of Jesus would have done. He probably wouldn't have even considered giving those things out to preachers of his word anyway. So denying riches should be something that cardinals and popes HAVE to do an shouldn't be praised for. By the way, the pledge of poverty meant that he just had to live like everyone else in the community (what a saint -- sarcasm)

Lastly, there was a criminal complaint filed against him by a human rights lawyer for the abduction of two Jesuit priests. However, there was no evidence to prove that he had anything to do with it. :)

Replies to This Discussion

We think that God reveals himself through creation, and can be found through the study of nature and science;

Why do you believe God revealed himself and gave incorrect information? Why would he not say "hey, I made this entire universe with multitude of galaxies, and I made life such that it evolves from simple to complex, oh and here is an important equation e=mc**2 and btw did you know 111111111 squared is 12345678987654321. And also don't bother praying, it doesn't work. I made homosexuals too, please love them because I do."

No, God said, hey, I made you, but still, let me see if you will kill your child for me, and I'm gonna have Noah save rats,snakes (oddly) and roaches from a big flood. And you must worship me or I will torture you, and Adam ate this apple, see, and eve was made from his rib and in your own intellect trust not...it's ridiculous.

Pope no pope life will go on. There will be pedo priests, there will be non female priests, they will still demonize homosexuality, they haven't changed their stand on contraception and for a young pope as he is, he probably has no plans to change any of these. So to hell with the pope and cheers to all good men and women who fight everyday for a secular world, with secular laws.

@ Prof Robert - But it is the adding up of all this millions of dollars - the catholic church is the wealthiest of all religions, with obscene opulence. It costs millions to run, and the new pope is now talking of reform for the Vatican bank. Why did Robert Calvi commit suicide? in 2011 showed it had 68 percent of then members of the clergy, and 8.2 billion of assets. Why was Eettore Gotti Tedeschi removed from his post.

The Italian Central Bank suspended bank card payments in the Vatican because of failure to fully implement anti-money laundering legislation. So, you can't really talk about austerity in the catholic church, What happened to a rich man can't go to heaven, you can't fudge it by saying the money is not theirs, where does all these billions come from? Either working class sheep or criminals. How many catholic babies could be saved from starvation, how many humpys could be built for said homeless people with children, not save the world, but millions certainly could help, and people are saying isn't it wonderful, this latest pope used to cook his own meals. I feel very sad that a well educated man doesn't see the irony in this. Money, I thought, was supposed to help the poor, that is what I was taught as a child, instead I see opulence of the highest order.

Speaking of Professor Robert, first let me say that I have no serious problem with the man - he's intelligent, articulate, he's a theist who makes no bones about it, nor makes any attempt to convert anyone, and consequently, for what it worth, he has my vote of welcome here to say anything he likes, as long as he can accept our taking exception with those parts with which we disagree, and so far, it would seem he can do that as well. The perfect guest.

My only question - and this is no deal-breaker - is why is it necessary to announce to the board, Robert, that you're a professor? You may well be, and I applaud you for that, but wouldn't simply, "Bob" remove all aspects of pretentiousness?

I mean, I could say, "Grand Poobah of the World Archaeopteryx," but regardless of how true I may feel that is when I'm doing the thousand-yard stare, I'm really the only one who needs to know it. And of course my shrink.

Molestation by trusted people like parents, teachers, or ministers: Even worse.

Covering up of molestation or enabling it by being an incompetent leader: Criminal. Infuriating. Mortally sinful. A betrayal of trust.

Blaming an entire class of people for the despicable acts of a few people: Biased. Unfair. Unjust. At least until you can present evidence of proximal causation or intent by the group (like the KKK).

Believing that a certain class of people commits certain types of crimes because they belong to that class of people, even though there is a correlation (like African Americans and robbery): Prejudiced, misguided, poorly reasoned, hurtful.

Does that help a bit?

"If you don't believe what's written in the Bible, how do you justify your belief in a Christian God?"

It seems to me that the objection of yourself and most of the people in this community is to fundamentalist Protestant Christianity (and probably to fundamentalist approaches to Islam or Judaism as well, but those don't seem to come up). Catholics like myself would share your objection. We do not take a literal view of what is written in the Bible, and we think taking a literal view is foolish. It is an aberrant form of Christianity which arose from the Reformation, when the reformers rejected a long tradition of learning and teaching in favor of sola scriptura - "only the Bible". There were sociopolitical reasons for them to do that, but they sort of threw the baby out with the bathwater. We try to be tolerant of our brothers and sisters with that approach, but it does make us roll our eyes quite a bit.

In my Church as an intellectual community, we'd think of the Bible as a compilation of important documents. A bit like if you were to pick up a text on the history of physics. It includes stuff from Archimedes and Aristotle in the "Old Testament", and stuff from Newton and Maxwell and Einstein and Bohr and such in the "New." Is everything that Archimedes wrote to be taken literally? Of course not. Are some of the concepts he wrote valid, and does that way of thinking still contribute to our understanding? Absolutely. Is everything that's important to know about physics written down in the textbook? No way. Is it useful sometimes to look something up and refer to it? Sure.

Like you, we don't really understand the fundamentalists, and we find them a bit exasperating. All I would suggest to you, as a parting thought, is that not all approaches to religion are the same, and it would be more fair and reasonable to address each individually.

As I said somewhere else, Professor Robert, there is no requirement for you to flee. Hang around a bit if you like, just be aware that some of our members are more aggressive as posters than others.

I have a question for you. You are a practicing Catholic, and I am a practicing lesbian, married to my wife. How do you see my position? I feel according to the assertions of the Catholic faithful (you have seen some of the disputes here about text interpretations) that my wife and I are 'abominations', headed for the pits of hell.

"In my Church as an intellectual community, we'd think of the Bible as a compilation of important documents. A bit like if you were to pick up a text on the history of physics. It includes stuff from Archimedes and Aristotle in the 'Old Testament', and stuff from Newton and Maxwell and Einstein and Bohr and such in the 'New.' Is everything that Archimedes wrote to be taken literally? Of course not. Are some of the concepts he wrote valid, and does that way of thinking still contribute to our understanding? Absolutely. Is everything that's important to know about physics written down in the textbook? No way. Is it useful sometimes to look something up and refer to it? Sure."

Bob, are you really going to make an intelligent, insightful comment like that, then run away? I don't recall ever asking a theist to stay and I certainly would never presume to control the actions of another human being, but I believe it would be our loss if you didn't.

"not all approaches to religion are the same, and it would be more fair and reasonable to address each individually. "

But it remains, doesn't it, that all flavours of religion - including Catholics, though you want to set yourself apart, require this giant leap of irrationality called "Faith". Further it remains, doesn't it, that, without the Bible there would be no Christianity - including Catholicism. Yet even a cursory examination of the Bible reveals itself to be so full of holes as to be useless as the reference you claim it to be.