Alex Simmons/RST wrote:I also think having people who were dopers still involved in influencing the sport and the newer riders coming through via directing, managing, coaching, medical assistance etc is completely wrong.

"the ability to act on the riders' entourage, particularly the younger members"

"All we're trying to do is break the cycle so that the doping influence is less involved in the sport and that the managers are a group who have the highest ethics as cyclists and continue to have the highest ethics as management.

Whilst Ricco has not been proven guilty , he is still obviously in a world of his own, as the latest claims are now that it was only due to a temperature when he got back from a training ride, and that "2 days later he woke up in intensive care "...

I have no idea how serious these Gran Fondo's are, seems to me that some are taking them pretty seriously, this only made me laugh:

According to one of the event organisers who did not wish to be identified, RiccÃ² joined the 163km Gran Fondo Prologo-Giovanni Lombardi after 10km, appearing from behind a house. He then helped his friends by working to close the gap on a group of breakaway riders.

Edit: just reread what I wrote and it might not be clear - I didn't mean to say that because they might not be "pro" or "serious" events that cheating was ok, I meant that I didn't know what sort of repercussions would be dealt out because of the cheating. Obviously cheating is wrong at all levels.

According to one of the event organisers who did not wish to be identified, RiccÃ² joined the 163km Gran Fondo Prologo-Giovanni Lombardi after 10km, appearing from behind a house. He then helped his friends by working to close the gap on a group of breakaway riders.

thanks - that makes it even funnier - the imagery of Ricco riding out from "behind a house" to help his "mates" (where'd he get them from?) for that kind of event is both funny and incredibly sad. What a knob.

The UCI issued a warning Thursday advising teams and riders that several blood samples are undergoing expert scrutiny in advance of the Tour de France to determine whether blood doping or other forms of manipulation have taken place.

Using its Biological Passport program, the UCI has snared several top professionals despite the fact they had not tested positive for banned substances.

UCI doctor Mario Zorzoli suggested on Thursday that more positive cases could follow after a decision to probe several samples was taken in the wake of a meeting with World Anti-Doping Agency officials in February.

â€œWe can see for example a change in the value of certain parameters, which are completely different in 2010 to what they were in 2008 or 2009,â€ Zorzoli said at a French National Anti-Doping Agency (AFLD) conference. â€œObviously that leads us to suppose that some kind of manipulation has taken place.â€

igstar wrote:Nothing really new but I wonder how many sports in the world come under as much scrutiny. Take for example AFL's 3-strike policy...

On that note, the whole media, National Football Federation, and FIFA reaction regardingThe five Mexican footballers who were suspended from the Gold Cup last month.

The five Mexican footballers who were suspended from the Gold Cup earlier this month, are not the only players to have tested positive for the banned substance clenbuterol, according to FIFA president Sepp Blatter.

The players claim that the positive test was caused by contaminated meat and Blatter appears to hold the view that they ingested the drug by accident.

â€œIt was a surprise but when we received the documents, and especially after we had spoken to our medical supervisor, we noticed that there were five players in an awkward position,â€ Blatter said.

â€œBut traces of the product have also shown up in the systems of some of the other players in the team.

â€œIt is without doubt in the food and we are talking here about meat. The Mexican football federation is going to take all necessary measures and we (FIFA) are ready to lend a hand.â€

brentono wrote:â€œBut traces of the product have also shown up in the systems of some of the other players in the team."

this is Dertie's problem:- none of his teammates tested positive to tainted meat - we are to believe he ate a 'special' meal.- meat quality controls in western europe are far stricter than in south america - the odds of eating tainted meat are much lower.

brentono wrote:Certainly a different tack, than that would be taken in any Clenbuterol case in Cycling.

Well I hope WADA come up with a sensible solution. It's presently under review.

Whether or not the football cases are accidental or otherwise I have no idea but the use of clenbuterol in the largely unregulated cattle industry in Mexico and some other countries is widespread. The risk of unintended CB ingestion is significant there (but much less so in Europe). It is also compounded by the fact that CB only lasts in the system for maybe a week at most after therapeutic dose has ceased. So small amounts could easily be either from doping or unintended contamination through eating CB beef in the previous few days.

A large group of players in a team being positive (there are unconfirmed reports that many more on the team also tested positive) is either contaminated beef on the menu (assuming they have been dining together, which in the days leading up to a tournament is certainly plausible) or indicative of systemic doping.

jules21 wrote:- meat quality controls in western europe are far stricter than in south america - the odds of eating tainted meat are much lower.

It was nothing to do with Contador's situation, in my point , it was the more balancedapproach by media, National Football Federation, and FIFA.I'm not even going to get into a debate with you, when you wish to completely ignorethe fact, that a large amount of Mercosur product (Beef) from South America is imported into the E.U. (a FACT you and others wish to ignore)Think what you will.

Lone Rider- I rode on the long, dark road... before I danced under the lights.

brentono wrote:Certainly a different tack, than that would be taken in any Clenbuterol case in Cycling.

Well I hope WADA come up with a sensible solution. It's presently under review.

I agree, and the only sensible approach will be a threshold limit (as I pointed out from the onset)I would be concerned that it will take so much bureaucratic bumbling, before any decision can be made,that many sportspeople will be adversely affected by the present position on Clenbuterol (and possibly other substances)

Last edited by brentono on Mon Jun 27, 2011 3:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Lone Rider- I rode on the long, dark road... before I danced under the lights.

brentono wrote:I'm not even going to get into a debate with you, when you wish to completely ignore the fact, that a large amount of Mercosur product (Beef) from South America is imported into the E.U. (a FACT you and others wish to ignore)

any meat that is sold in the EU is subject to the EU's standards. imported meat will be subjected to those standards, the same as locally processed meat.

it's therefore likely that south american meat exporters would not dose export meat with clenbuterol, that they would for sale in south america.

i've previously explained that to you. it's you who is ignoring the facts, here

brentono wrote:I'm not even going to get into a debate with you, when you wish to completely ignore the fact, that a large amount of Mercosur product (Beef) from South America is imported into the E.U. (a FACT you and others wish to ignore)

any meat that is sold in the EU is subject to the EU's standards. imported meat will be subjected to those standards, the same as locally processed meat.

it's therefore likely that south american meat exporters would not dose export meat with clenbuterol, that they would for sale in south america.

As stated before, having been involved, not all shipments are tested or reviewed,and many are already through the process and distributed, after detection, from my personal experience in the process. Analysis is only a gauge of the whole system, not a deterent (That's what happens in Australia) FME.I'll leave that debate there, as we seem to be at odds.

Lone Rider- I rode on the long, dark road... before I danced under the lights.

brentono wrote:As stated before, having been involved, not all shipments are tested or reviewed,

of course that's true. but that is the deterrent - an exporter would probably not want to risk their EU export license, just to squeeze in some clenbuterol. i'm sure that neither is it the case that all locally processed meat in the EU is tested.

brentono wrote:I agree, and the only sensible approach will be a threshold limit (as I pointed out from the onset)I would be concerned that it will take so much bureaucratic bumbling, before any decision can be made,that many sportspeople will be adversely affected by the present position on Clenbuterol (and possibly other substances)

Well when a prohibited substance detected can be result of either doping or inadvertent ingestion from the regular food supply, and the threshold might be passed or failed simply due to the # of days since ingestion, then you can't blame them for taking some time to work out a reasonable solution.

Some science no doubt would help and I trust they are getting good advice in that respect.

In the meantime, I have told my Central American based athlete to avoid eating local beef and eat other sources of protein.

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