[14:23] <ccp_fozzie> I started opening that box but then the faces started melting off some nearby Nazis so I looked away

[14:23] <exooki> you target an overabundance of relics by slightly reducing their runs, but data items are just as oversupplied, and the only reason run a data site will be this 1 item

[14:23] <exooki> im not sure how to interpret your comment

[14:24] <ccp_fozzie> raiders of the lost ark joje

[14:24] <ccp_fozzie> *joke

[14:24] <ccp_fozzie> yeah a complete rework of exploration loot is just out of scope for a pass like this unfortunately

[14:28] <exooki> oh i got the movie reference, just wasnt sure how it applied to the convo XD. how rare/scarce is the new item going to be?

[14:30] <exooki> my concern is that data sites will only be worth doing while this new item is in high demand, and once the supply overtakes it, theyll become worthless again, as this is the only item in a WH data site's drop table thats worth anything

[14:30] <exooki> will higher class Whs drop more per site?

[14:30] <ccp_fozzie> the new item is part of the salvage tables

[14:31] <ccp_fozzie> the data site changes are a slight reduction in datacore drop rates

[14:31] <exooki> oooh gotcha

[14:32] <exooki> so, in theory datacores from data sites should eventually go up, but that may take a while

[16:29] <ccp_fozzie> Quick update, the earlier version of that post had incorrect faction identification for the new Ladar and Radar components and salvage. I've updated the post now

[16:31] <sullen> LOL @ccp_fozzie that reference

[16:32] <sullen> so when you say that the item is part of the salvage tables. i assume it'll just be dropped at a rate that would balance out everything else' drop rate?

[16:33] <ccp_fozzie> it'll be dropped at a rate to get a supply/demand number fairly equal to most other ancient salvage outputs

[16:33] <ccp_fozzie> based on the number of hulls built and the number of sleepers salvaged over time

[16:42] <sullen> gotcha

[16:47] <lanyaie> @ccp_fozzie Not a noteworthy thing but why 7 for malfunctioning components? That makes for an awkward amount as multiples of 7 don't end on a round number until *10

[16:48] <lanyaie> Although, I guess that's not something important enough to take into account

[16:50] <ccp_fozzie> we looked at it as a -25%/-30%/-33% change respectively for the three classes of relic

[16:50] <lanyaie> Additionally, any specific reasoning as to why the drop rate was decreased instead of material requirements increased for datacores/relics?

[16:51] <ccp_fozzie> largely because the changes that had got us into this supply glut problem were drop rate changes

[16:51] <ccp_fozzie> although demand could have also worked to get the right result

[16:51] <ccp_fozzie> we also have a bit more granularity with drop rates than we do with consumption

[16:52] <ccp_fozzie> although that wouldn't necessarily be a deal breaker

[16:59] <lanyaie> T3 building is more complex and actually doesn't require just the basic industry skills and regular materials.

[17:01] <lanyaie> The skill requirements are far too high for everyone to just decide to pump out a couple batches. Those that can are going or already doing so so regardless

[17:07] <sturm_gewehr> @ccp_fozzie can't check myself as on mobile but did you guys end up trying to get a bit more ehp on the active tank subs? A lot of fits went from a bit over 21k down to 15-16k which is a significant foe surviving alpha.

[17:07] <sturm_gewehr> And could be problematic for some pve sites/missions as well.

[17:08] <ccp_fozzie> last changes in that regard were when we added more base HP to the Tengu a while back @sturm_gewehr

[17:08] <sturm_gewehr> Loki was another problematic one.

[17:08] <ccp_fozzie> there isn't a ton of room to go much higher without actually surpassing the base HP of the buffer subs

[17:09] <sturm_gewehr> Even if they were equal in base hp the buffer subs get a lot of mileage out of extenders and plates.

[17:09] <sturm_gewehr> And heated resisits.

[17:10] <sturm_gewehr> On buffer/active fits for pvp I am leaning more towards buffer subs in general because the ehp difference is so substantial and resist overheat bonus goes a long way to helping the active tank.

[22:25] <sturm_gewehr> @sullen the 7 low loki also loses a slot and additional lows can sometimes be used in lieu of rigs to create similar tanks or make the fit more effective overall.

[22:27] <sturm_gewehr> I agree with orchid about the power level reduction not being worth the cost in general, definitely will see more diversity but in the long run I think the power level of t3s will need to increase some to justify the cost. That being said I would rather ship them underpowered than overpowered.

[22:30] <sturm_gewehr> Especially considering a lot of the strong setups were either removed or neutered and some of the new roles like hybrid links/reps aren't worth the cost versus dual boxing a logi and a jetpack link t3d for performance.

[22:42] <exooki> If we nerf malfunctioning and wrecked, well still see the increased demand to sustain building, but it won't shove manufacturing into only the better relics, in a possibly unsustainable manner

[22:46] <exooki> Builders are concerned that the new material efficiencies make wrecked worse enough that it's throwing money away to use wrecked

[22:47] <ccp_fozzie> I think I've been speaking to the same builders as you are :slightly_smiling_face:

[22:48] <exooki> Probably, they're pretty concerned :D

[22:49] <ccp_fozzie> I won't rule it out, but this does come back to the issue of flooded supply

[22:50] <ccp_fozzie> in that it's not worth using wreckeds with intacts at their current prices, but that if relic prices adjust then wreckeds become usable again