Posted 13 February 2012 - 05:05 PM

Given the cost per analysis for my company, we need X products purchased to offset the employee/electric/server fees for the email to be sent.

X compared to the whole of sales Y is so low as to be considered basically free.

YMMV

You're too smart and confused me, lol.

I think you're saying it's not free but will pay for itself.

The New York Red Bulls previously kicked around Major League Soccer as the MetroStars with limited success. But after transforming under a new banner in 2005, the Red Bulls have become a force to be reckoned with in the Eastern Conference. The club has made leaps of progress since its previous incarnation and now has its focus on bringing the league title to New York. Grab your New York Red Bulls soccer jersey and other gear here at MLSGear.com.

Posted 13 February 2012 - 05:09 PM

sabremike

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Also, one thing I noticed that was different from the first year at RBA, there were no added "processing fees". $19 per seat, two 5-game plans, $190 flat. All weekend games, with only one I believe having an afternoon start (2:30PM, IIRC) The added benefit of coming to the event was they waived the fee for the membership card. Great deal.

If they got rid of the processing fees I'll give them credit for that. The membership to me is a deal killer to me, even if I don't have to pay it (and as an ESC member I wouldn't). It just shows contempt for the fans. If they really needed $25 extra dollars they should've just raised the season ticket price by $25. I wouldn't have had nearly as much problem with that.

Where did I ever say they weren't doing enough? The only thing I've argued is not treating your paying customers like suckers (RE: Membership scheme), because if you do they stop becoming paying customers. I'm arguing that they are scrambling to sell tickets due to said treatment of paying customers. That is all, no more, no less.

Posted 13 February 2012 - 05:15 PM

Either way.. they're trying to sell tickets. Attempting to sell more to a market that has previously bought, regardless of your current numbers, is just obvious.

I dont think anyone has accused Chris Heck of not wanting or trying to sell tickets/increase attendance. People just question his methods and rightfully have pointed out that his methods are a classic example of a "cart before the horse" tactic. While i don't think his partial ticket plan is the end of the world, it is indiciative of his philosophy.

Why limit the potential partial plan fans ability to commit or come to a game by not allowing them to choose the 5 or so games they can make or want to make? This fanbase is already somewhat limited in the first place, why place even more barriers to attending the game than already exists?

Many have already stated quite clearly why they are opposed to his full season ticket pricing plan already. He has shown that he is not above mass give aways in order to report sell outs that simply did not actually exist.

Serious question, how has he increased actual demand for tickets so far in his first full off season? What has he done and what steps has he taken that has led directly to an increase in SALES? Preliminary reports so far suggest they are below last year's season ticket numbers and projecting lower equivilants with the partials than last year. That to me says all i need to know about his ticket policies. I am sure we will see the mass give aways and "partnerships" with secondary sellers again this year.

If anything he has devalued the season ticket and the demand for them.

Maybe he is hoping this "rumored" awesome marketing campaign will do the trick. Someone better tell him that the season starts in like 30 days.

Posted 13 February 2012 - 05:20 PM

It's probably a more difficult process to guarantee specific seats if it becomes a pick and choose what games you want to go to.

If I remember correctly, the Nets have partial plans where you basically pick 5 games out of the 8 listed. It's not a situation where one can say I want to see LA, Ok City, Clippers, Chicago, and Boston.

"If they asked me to go back to the academy and coach the U-14s (I would have). I care about this club. It was never false, it always rings true.’" - Red Bull New York Head Coach Michael Petke

Posted 13 February 2012 - 05:26 PM

It's probably a more difficult process to guarantee specific seats if it becomes a pick and choose what games you want to go to.

If I remember correctly, the Nets have partial plans where you basically pick 5 games out of the 8 listed. It's not a situation where one can say I want to see LA, Ok City, Clippers, Chicago, and Boston.

I'm a Nets plan holder. Basicly the Nets have games in 4 different price categories based on opponent. Each one is priced differently. If you pick 5 games, they are priced based on that category and discounted 5% each (except the Knicks and Heat, the "Premium games". You get no discount for them). So you can pick any 5 games, they just may cost more.

Posted 13 February 2012 - 05:44 PM

adiamas

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I dont think anyone has accused Chris Heck of not wanting or trying to sell tickets/increase attendance.

People just question his methods and rightfully have pointed out that his methods are a classic example of a "cart before the horse" tactic. While i don't think his partial ticket plan is the end of the world, it is indiciative of his philosophy.

I agree that no one has accused Heck of not wanting to sell tickets, so at least we agree on something. To play devil's advocate, just because people have pointed it out, doesn't necessarily make them right, no matter how much they repeat it or how vociferously they post it.

Why limit the potential partial plan fans ability to commit or come to a game by not allowing them to choose the 5 or so games they can make or want to make?

I can think of a few reasons with just one of the least of them being that it gives season tickets a selling point. Want games not included in the 5/10 game plan? Go for the season tickets.

This fanbase is already somewhat limited in the first place, why place even more barriers to attending the game than already exists?

I agree the fan base is limited, and I agree it might not be a smart move, but the fact of the matter is that what they were doing previously wasn't "working" as defined by most people either. Sometimes you need to change (and fail) to find out it doesn't work.

Many have already stated quite clearly why they are opposed to his full season ticket pricing plan already.

And they should continue to do so. I may or may not agree with them, but I think its a good thing if those that aren't happy continue to express their frustration to the FO.

He has shown that he is not above mass give aways in order to report sell outs that simply did not actually exist.

Given that attendance is based on tickets sold, if all the seats are sold, by definition it is a sellout. It existed. We might not like that a fair number of those "buyers" don't show up, or how those that do show got their tickets, but it doesn't change that the seats were "taken" by the current measurement. (This is why I think its pointless to measure sales as compared to actually measuring the number of bodies through the turnstile.)

Serious question, how has he increased actual demand for tickets so far in his first full off season? What has he done and what steps has he taken that has led directly to an increase in SALES?

Its not my job to defend the front office for its actions or inaction's selling tickets and that's all your questions are asking for someone to do. Sorry, not biting.

Preliminary reports so far suggest they are below last year's season ticket numbers and projecting lower equivilants with the partials than last year. That to me says all i need to know about his ticket policies.

This may be where we differ. I don't care if they are or are not making their projected ticket sales at this point. If there are less people in the stands for most games and nothing changes again, then I'll worry about it.

Until then, everything is hype, hyperbole and rumor.

I am sure we will see the mass give aways and "partnerships" with secondary sellers again this year.

And until there are 30k user base scrambling for tickets and willing to wait on a waiting list, that's not going to change. If it gets people in the stadium and turns just one of those people into a return fan, I'm fine with that.

If anything he has devalued the season ticket and the demand for them.

Until the season starts, we have no idea what actual impact there has been on the value and demand for the tickets. Everyone's guessing and everyone has their own personal opinion they are carrying. I don't feel my seats have been "devalued" and seeing as I'm still in them, there is clearly a "demand".

Maybe he is hoping this "rumored" awesome marketing campaign will do the trick. Someone better tell him that the season starts in like 30 days.

/rant

This isn't anything different then the last 17 years. Meet the new boss, same as the old boss.

Your rant is was well written and concise (as you usually are), but very little in it countered my original comment that I don't think the emails to previous buyers "smells of desperation" as some are implying.

My opinion differs from yours and from the original poster. I've just been the foil to his post.

Posted 13 February 2012 - 06:04 PM

I can think of a few reasons with just one of the least of them being that it gives season tickets a selling point. Want games not included in the 5/10 game plan? Go for the season tickets.

They have had three full months to renew existing season ticket holders, (which they didn't do a good job of) and had the holiday season to push for new season ticket holder accounts. At this point, the people that are buying the full STs have bought them all things constant. You listed a reason, not sure if i would agree it is a good reason weighted between the two choices.

Given that attendance is based on tickets sold, if all the seats are sold, by definition it is a sellout. It existed. We might not like that a fair number of those "buyers" don't show up, or how those that do show got their tickets, but it doesn't change that the seats were "taken" by the current measurement. (This is why I think its pointless to measure sales as compared to actually measuring the number of bodies through the turnstile.)

"Sold" can mean a lot of different things. They could "sell" the amounts distributed to a youth team on the books, when it is essentially a free give away. They "sell" them to Groupon at very low margins who may or may not actually sell them to an actual human.

Everyone with 2 eyes could tell the sell outs he announced were horseshit., irrespective what accounting/ticket sale method you choose.

This may be where we differ. I don't care if they are or are not making their projected ticket sales at this point. If there are less people in the stands for most games and nothing changes again, then I'll worry about it.

Until then, everything is hype, hyperbole and rumor.

Except the raw data is pretty useful in trying to analyize the effectiveness of their new ticket policy. Selling less is never a good indicator of your plan to sell more.

Until the season starts, we have no idea what actual impact there has been on the value and demand for the tickets. Everyone's guessing and everyone has their own personal opinion they are carrying. I don't feel my seats have been "devalued" and seeing as I'm still in them, there is clearly a "demand".

Simply not true. We can already see the actual value/demand for tickets now based on the signs we already see today. We also have years of historical precident to draw on as well. You don't feel your seats are devauled, but it doesn't mean they have not been. Anytime a polciy reduced the demand for your seats, the seats lose value. Everytime the polciy calls for selling to third party entities to sell at much smaller margins it reduceds the value of the ticket you paid for.

Just because YOU bought a season ticket doesn't mean there clearly is "demand". It just means YOU individually have demand.

Posted 13 February 2012 - 06:09 PM

JayDelight729

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I'm a Nets plan holder. Basicly the Nets have games in 4 different price categories based on opponent. Each one is priced differently. If you pick 5 games, they are priced based on that category and discounted 5% each (except the Knicks and Heat, the "Premium games". You get no discount for them). So you can pick any 5 games, they just may cost more.

Ok... so the Nets are pricing games based on opponent.

Hypothetically, $30 for bottom teams, $40 for fringe teams, $55 for playoff teams, & $75 for contenders. But the caveat is you can purchase any of them (except Knicks and Heat), but pay for the price range it is in.

And the Red Bulls are charging the same price for every single game on the schedule, but the partial plans are locked and you cannot hand pick the games you want to attend?

Am I understanding this correctly?

"If they asked me to go back to the academy and coach the U-14s (I would have). I care about this club. It was never false, it always rings true.’" - Red Bull New York Head Coach Michael Petke

Posted 13 February 2012 - 06:20 PM

Rooney22

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Serious question, how has he increased actual demand for tickets so far in his first full off season? What has he done and what steps has he taken that has led directly to an increase in SALES? Preliminary reports so far suggest they are below last year's season ticket numbers and projecting lower equivilants with the partials than last year. That to me says all i need to know about his ticket policies. I am sure we will see the mass give aways and "partnerships" with secondary sellers again this year.

Wait untill next year

On a more serious note RBA is kind of an anomaly. People buy ST's but only show up 1/3rd of the time. With that the partial season tickets do make sense but they were introduced wayyyy to late. They should have released them along side the ST or like 2 weeks after. Even without the schedule released you can sell a 5 game pack that includes a ticket to the Philly OR DC game and with the 10 game pack you can include BOTH those games and just fill in the rest later. Heck is trying to get RBA full but he is doing some back assward stuff to do so. It will take time and a lot of winning to get RBA full on a consistent basis.

Posted 13 February 2012 - 06:31 PM

Right Back

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as someone who lives 3 hours away and now going to college, I can say that this is a very limiting factor. I have no idea if any of these packages will work out for my family given how hectic our schedule can get. Really is a stupid move IMO, but I realize my situation is a bit of an oddity.

Posted 13 February 2012 - 06:33 PM

adiamas

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Simply not true. We can already see the actual value/demand for tickets now based on the signs we already see today.

And I say that's simply not true because we don't have the raw numbers. We have rumors, opinions and anecdote. We can't "already see the actual value/demand" because there hasn't been "actual" verifiable results. Come the start of the season and turn out is less then we had? I'm happy to admit you were right. Until then I disagree with you, but you and I have rarely seen eye to eye.

Just because YOU bought a season ticket doesn't mean there clearly is "demand". It just means YOU individually have demand.

I can sum up the same response by saying just because YOU feel the ticket is devalued doesn't mean there's clearly no demand.

Everyone's got an opinion and we all toss them around, but until the season starts no one has definitive numbers on where the sales stand because the FO hasn't released them and we haven't see the stands.

But you have the right to your opinion no matter how much I disagree with it.

Posted 13 February 2012 - 07:02 PM

Rob Money

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Supply vs. Demand.......vs. Give a way

True story. Went to a game with a friend last year and forgot my season ticket cards. When I got to the stadium I was approaching the window to try and get things rectified. A lady grabbed my arm and asked if I had bough tickets yet. She had a fist full of tickets and said that her and her husband get 30 free tickets every game because they are involved in Youth Soccer. No one on the youth team ever wants them and she feels bad but has to throw them away every game. She then went on to stuff 2 tickets in my had and hoped I'd enjoy the game.

Posted 13 February 2012 - 07:12 PM

onionsack

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And I say that's simply not true because we don't have the raw numbers. We have rumors, opinions and anecdote. We can't "already see the actual value/demand" because there hasn't been "actual" verifiable results. Come the start of the season and turn out is less then we had? I'm happy to admit you were right. Until then I disagree with you, but you and I have rarely seen eye to eye.

I can sum up the same response by saying just because YOU feel the ticket is devalued doesn't mean there's clearly no demand.

Everyone's got an opinion and we all toss them around, but until the season starts no one has definitive numbers on where the sales stand because the FO hasn't released them and we haven't see the stands.

But you have the right to your opinion no matter how much I disagree with it.

We don't have the raw numbers because the club isn't releasing them. But I KNOW that they sold less ST's than last year i KNOW the ST retention rate was lower than the past 2 seasons. We also have circumstantial evidence that suggests the same conclusion. Silence is deafening from NYRB on the numbers. Extending deadlines to renew, scheduling additional efforts to sell tickets are all classic tells in the sales business that sales are not going well.

The world is full of grey man which is why most the time you have to rely on information at hand and deduct through reasoning what the answer is most likely to be. If you want black and white raw data before you are willing to make a conclusion....you'll be waiting for quite some time.

Posted 13 February 2012 - 08:07 PM

RedBullScouse

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We don't have the raw numbers because the club isn't releasing them. But I KNOW that they sold less ST's than last year i KNOW the ST retention rate was lower than the past 2 seasons. We also have circumstantial evidence that suggests the same conclusion. Silence is deafening from NYRB on the numbers. ...

How are season ticket sales going? I mean, REALLY? Fred – Short Hills

We’re well ahead of pace from previous years. As a matter of fact we sold 1,000 new season tickets by the first week of December. We expect the season ticket base to increase from last year and to continue to grow.

"Everybody has a plan until they get punched in the mouth." - Iron Mike