24 June 2008

Comedian George Carlin died of a heart attack at age 71 Sunday evening.I am old enough to have a perspective on Carlin's significance. He signaled a change in comedy. Comedy had been more of the Henny Youngman variety: one-liners, shticks, gags. Carlin started "straight" and buttoned-down, then developed a very different approach to comedy. He pioneered a more observational sort of humor, such as we can see in Stephen Wright, Jerry Seinfeld, Ritch Shydner, and a host of others.

Carlin's worldview took a toll on him, as drug-use reportedly started the heart-problems that eventually killed him. Five years before his death, the "funny-man" voiced a very dark view:

"I sort of gave up on this whole human adventure a long time ago," he said a couple of years ago. "Divorced myself from it emotionally. I think the human race has squandered its gift, and I think this country has squandered its promise. I think people in America sold out very cheaply, for sneakers and cheeseburgers. And I don't think it's fixable."

Here you see a man who is confronted with the disaster which autonomy has brought on our race. Carlin sees some of the bitter fruits of man's rebellion against God. He longs for redemption. He sees that it will not arise from within us. Yet, like the classic definition of insanity, he has no prescription but more of the same. He was raised Roman Catholic, and probably thought (alas, wrongly) that this exposed him to Christianity, to Christ, to the Gospel. Thus he often expressed contempt for religion. Rejecting the fake, like so many he was inoculated against the real item. Thus apparently Carlin never seriously considered the actual cure whose absence he would later feel so keenly: Jesus Christ, the only hope and redeemer of mankind (John 1:29; 1 Timothy 1:1).

As we all naturally do — in spite of his many keen insights — Carlin misdiagnoses the cause, and thus completely misses the cure.

When I think of Carlin, I think primarily of his riff on "stuff," and his riff on how we view different ages: we "become 21, turn 30, push 40, reach 50 and make it to 60; now you've built up so much speed that you hit 70!" (Someone added some trite "happy life" thoughts and circulated it, made it totally un-Carlin; but I've heard the man give the first part.)

As articles across the globe remember Carlin, those routines aren't what they celebrate (?) in Carlin. What they remember — often in their obit headlines — is a routine he did on, and exulting in, seven obscene words. (I won't link to that one.)

I don't think that would bother Carlin, unfortunately. His routines were often badly profane, which is why you don't see links to them. But it bothered me. What a way to be remembered: Carlin made many clever, wry, gentler observations; but it was a juvenile, potty-mouthed rant that ends up as his epitaph.

Which got me to thinking a bit of how any of us will be remembered when we pass away. Which got me to thinking of Mark Driscoll.

Don't brace for a bash. This isn't meant as one. I think we here at Pyro have a range of estimations of Driscoll, with a lot of overlap. I have heard at least a couple dozen of Mark's sermons or talks, and liked most of them very much... with some reservations.

But if Driscoll were to pass away right now, how would he be remembered? Would it be: "Revolutionary voice for Christ in Washington passes away: Driscoll preached Bible in an anti-Christian setting"?

Now, would that be fair? As a summary of all of Driscoll's work and preaching and writing, no, I don't think it would be fair at all. But you know it would happen.

Part of that would be the fault of the paint-thin, sensationalistic, spiritually clueless, despicable, contemptible MSM.

But part of it wouldn't.

It's worth our giving that a thought, regardless of the size of our circle of influence, fame, infamy.

I'm not asking that we convince the world to like us. Not going to happen — or we've messed up, somewhere (James 4:4). I'm not saying we should expect fairness from the MSM. I'm more thinking of what we make our emphasis. If the media noted our passing, and mischaracterized us, would our friends have abundant resources to show how ridiculous they are? Or would we have played right into their hands by poor judgment, poor priorities, over-fondness of applause, playing for laughs and roses?

I'm saying it's worth real thought.

Thememory oftherighteous is a blessing,but the name of the wicked will rot(Proverbs 10:7)

A good name is to be chosen rather than great riches,and favor is better than silver or gold(Proverbs 22:1)

A good name is better than precious ointment,and the day of death than the day of birth.2 It is better to go to the house of mourningthan to go to the house of feasting,for this is the end of all mankind,and the living will lay it to heart.3 Sorrow is better than laughter,for by sadness of face the heart is made glad.4 The heart of the wise is in the house of mourning,but the heart of fools is in the house of mirth.(Ecclesiastes 7:1-4)

It actually would not be that. The people of Seattle (and Philly, and many other cities who have churches associated with Acts29) know Driscoll as an Evangelical pastor who is planting sites and churches and evangelizing all the time.

The only people who think of Driscoll in the way that you mentioned is fundy-mundies like yourself.

You got Fundied after only 2 comments in this thread! I think that's a new record.____________________

aboulet:

I would guess that the truth is someplace between the view you express here and the view you think Dan holds -- which is probably the view Dan actually holds. However, the problem is that there's no way to confirm this without conducting a nationwide poll of people who know who Mark Driscoll is.

Unless, of course, we re-read Dan's very good post here today and ask ourselves: did he write off Pastor Driscoll, or did he voice concern for him? Because I think you have said he wrote him off -- and I don't think you can make that case from what he actually wrote.

Carlin had some clean classics, like the football and baseball routine.But he was foul, and I wouldn't rent any of his video's for sure.I saw an interview of him last night, and he totally disregarded the Bible out of hand as myth.His death is sad, and where he went is even sadder.

Very good post. I read Mark's last book, 'Vintage Jesus', and 90% of it is good stuff; some very good insight, and doctrinally sound.BUT, he has some crude things peppered in the book as well.I don't get that.But he will be remembered for it, along with the good things he has done. For it is written.Unless he clears it all up by the end of his life.I guess that's possible.

But the main point in this article, "George Carlin, and us", is me.I'm convicted a bit, and encouraged. Thanks Dan.

I agree that many would remember Driscoll that way, but I also think many more would not.

I started out not liking the guy because I heard he was the 'cussing pastor'. Then, I listened to him for quite some time. Now, I enjoy some of his insights. His recent series on doctrine has been very good, even though I disagree with him about ongoing revelation.

All this to say, the next time someone tells me that Mark is the cussing pastor, I am going to ask them if they have listened to him. I know that you do not hold this view and I also know that many people defame Mark by someone else's report. (I have winced a couple of times at something he has said, i.e. the sermon on Humor)

Driscoll's behavior should have got him removed from his pulpit immediately. There is absolutely no excuse for the things he's done. Defenders of Driscoll might do well to survey 1 Timothy again and notice that Driscoll does not meet the biblical criteria.

"He preaches the gospel" is just an excuse to say that we can overlook the fact that he as a pastor lacked the discernment to know that cussing from the pulpit and speaking of the Lord in extremely crass terms was totally unfit for one of Christ's ministers.

A pastor can't afford to do the things that Driscoll has done and anyone guilty of his offenses should be removed from the pulpit. Pastors are held to the highest standards by the word of God.

Lastly, I came home last night and found that a burglar had broken into my house and stolen everything, and replaced it all with exact duplicates. I told my wife and she said, "Who are you?"-- Steven Wright

From Wiki article on George Carlin (by the way ... some foul stuff there so beware)

"Although raised in the Roman Catholic faith, Carlin often denounced the idea of God in interviews and performances, most notably with his "Invisible Man in the Sky" and "There Is No God" routines. In mockery, he invented the parody religion Frisbeetarianism for a newspaper contest. He defined it as the belief that when a person dies "his soul gets flung onto a roof, and just stays there", and cannot be retrieved."

Observation: His Frisbeetarianism is a lot like the universalism Americans have come to embrace.

I think Carlin is a great example of a man given a great gift - the gift of observing the human condition and being able to draw humor and insight into it - but who squandered that gift through exalting that which is the most base and vile. And for that, as DJP points out, he will be most remembered. And even celebrated by those who engage in the same. Carlin's comments about our society squandering what we could have been apply directly to himself.

And of course, they apply to every one of us as fallen and depraved individuals.

"I spilled spot remover on my dog, and now I can't find him."

"I once put instant coffee in the microwave oven and almost went back in time."

Mark Driscoll should NEVER be remembered by ANYBODY for his "cussing pastor" identity . . . unless they were false accusations that his character should more than overshadow. Unfortunately he has, and he is . . . whatever the % would be.

Can you imagine if God would have had to have an "addendum" put into scripture about Paul in the way all of this is going now in Driscoll's offense? (Well I guess Paul sort of did that himself, but it was "PRIOR to conversion" activities.)

Prior PYRO posts on "emergents", etc., are really hitting hard and hitting home and right on the money. There is no room in a pastor or church leader's life except for: "we preach Christ crucified". Culture matters NADA . . .

May God and HIS Word get ALL the glory.

Mike HowardBIBLE BURGH

P.S. When most of these emergents get pinned to the wall they'll wiggle out with DBL speak . . . heard it directly from Brian McLaren on our own Talk Show . . . they move like jello! :-)

A legacy is really all one has to leave behind. Mr. Carlin was a creative, talented guy but he chose to take a bitter course with his humor and as such, never overshadowed the "7 words" bit.

That makes me think of how one bad move can overshadow an entire life's work. I guess we better make sure everyday is so positively remembered that if we make that "one bad move", people will say "I can't believe it...not him!"

In looking at a pastor growing up in the spotlight so to speak, shouldn't a person have conquered such basics as vulgar language before being considered worthy of the office of Elder?

Driscoll is a self appointed pastor. If you listen to his testimony on the mp3 from the Convergetn Conference session 3 you will hear him talk about how God told him(yes, like actually spoke to him) to start churches and this after he was newly converted. Huge red flags there. That alone violates several commands that God lays out in scripture regarding the appointment of elders such as 1 Tim 3:6. God doesn't contradict his own word so the whole "God told me to" thing doesn't fly. False prophets and lying spirits are known because they contradict the word of God. I don't buy the whole Charismatic thing anyhow. Driscoll calls himself a Charismatic with a seatbelt.

According to the testimony that Driscoll gave at the Convergence Conference, the only person who considered him for the office of pastor was himself.

Great post Dan. It had been a while since I had heard the tacph tacph tacph sound of tent spikes being hammered through temples.

Well writte--for a fundy.

"Pyromaniacs: We put the 'fun' in 'fundy-mundy"

It's been a while since I have commented here. I think I'm still bitter that I'm not blog rolled here yet. I mean really, you guys know you get all your material from me anyway. Really, it's the least you could do.

Carlin was an old postmodern insurgent who 'shocked' his way into success. The (anti)rebels of our generation need not to follow in their footsteps.

Here's a quote from DFW that explains my point:

"The old postmodern insurgents risked the gasp and squeal:shock disgust, outrage, censorship, accusations of socialism, anarchism, nihilism. Today's risks are different. The new rebels might be artists willing to risk the yawn, rolled eyes, the cool smile, the nudged ribs, the parody of gifted ironists, the 'Oh how banal.' To risk accusations of sentimentality, melodrama. Of overcredulity. Of softness. Of willingness to be suckered by a world of lurkers and starers who fear gaze and ridicule above imprisonment"- DFW

Sorry for the diatribe in my deleted comment if it seemed to derail the meta in any way and take the focus off of Christ. Great post Dan! It's just that I work among the most extremely liberal of the baby boomer generation in higher ed, and whenever I get started on my views of their socialist, "village" mentality...well, it drives me up the wall and I'd better stop here before this comment unravels into a few hundred more words!

Driscoll is a self appointed pastor. If you listen to his testimony on the mp3 from the Convergetn Conference session 3 you will hear him talk about how God told him(yes, like actually spoke to him) to start churches and this after he was newly converted. Huge red flags there."

~Ah...that makes this much clearer. Glad to read that he's trying to do better at least!

BUT, it just seems too easy to criticize someone else's tone and use of the tongue from the Internet. (Interestingly Driscoll will be speaking at the DG conference on just this topic, won't he?) How many times have people recently thrown Eph. 4:29, or something similar, at Frank for his "clowning" people? They just swoop in, drop a verse, and then walk away feeling good about themselves. I know how this works, because I've done it too.

Mark is big enough to answer for himself, so I'm not here to defend him. My basic question comes back to this...(in the innocent kind of way, not the accusatory way).

Could your general point have been made without bringing controversy to Mark's name? Am I off here?

Before I came to Christ, Carlin was a riot: rude, coarse, poking his finger in the eye of authority. His use of profanity appealed to the juvenile mentality. He was like Eddie Murphy and Richard Pryor, people who said things you never heard in polite company which made it all the more appealing.

Afterwards and now following his death, he seems just sad. An angry, bitter person with no hope and nothing to live for. His profane humor now pales in comparison to what you hear from the mouths of teenaged girls and adults in the business world. His uniqueness was gone.

Now he is dead and his quick wit and sharp tongue will do nothing to convince the Judge to spare him. In the midst of the world celebrating his life, we ought to look at his death as a sobering reminder of what is at stake.

What I remember about Carlin was that my father had an 8-track tape of one of his routines and my mother got angry with him for playing it while my sister and I were in the room. I also remember my mom telling me about swearing and why we do not talk like that (she was not a Christian until later in life) Unfortunately, it was from George Carlin that I heard some of the first swear words in my young life at that time (in the 1970's)

Dan, when you wrote, "Rejecting the fake, like so many he was inoculated against the real item" I couldn't help but think not of Christianity as promulgated by Rome but by Christianity as promulgated by Western mondernists, with its penchant for consumerism and infatuation with legislative answers (not least conservative) for societal ills.

A lot of the time, it seemed to me, Carlin took aim at the fake because we Christians gave him the fakeness to aim at.

I absolutely agree with you Daryl, and in no way suffer under the delusion that the world would fall in love with the church if those caricatures were removed.

I'd just like the church to be rejected for all the right reasons, ya know?!

The early church was accused of sedition and cannibalism. O, how I long for such accusations, considering what we're accused of these days (which brings me to my point about Carlin's scathing critiques).

I think you really outdid yourself, Solameanie--you got me doing a search for the lyrics of "Monday, Monday"! (I've heard the Ms&Ps sing it many times but never knew the words.) Maybe you really should take Polycarp's suggestion and do that YouTube version (with revised lyrics)!! It'll be such a big hit!!

I'm surprised at your objections. Am I wrong in assuming that all of you (except, obviously, the first) actually read what I said? It was very mild, and measured. I am certain that at least as many people thought I was far too easy on him.

So what is your argument? Is he not a good illustration of a Christian who runs the risk of letting unwise tongue-indulgences overshadow all the good things he does? You think Driscoll himself wouldn't admit it, and hasn't already admitted it?

Do you think he's going through his day all happy, and someone might say, "Mark — Dan Phillips said you have made some unwise choices about how you use your mouth"? And he's going to gasp, say "Dan Phillips? Surely not Dan Phillips?" — and his whole day, maybe his whole ministry, is going to be ruined?

Or he's going to say "What? My tongue? How come no one ever talked to me personally about this?!"

Next I'll say I think Mahaney is trying to mix oil and water when he mixes continuationism and Reformed theology, and you'll tell me I have to say that to him first; or to Grudem, if I fault his nutty fantasies about prophecy; or I can't publish a book review until I send it to the author and give it 2-3 years for dialogue.

Those are nutty standards.

And if that doesn't satisfy you, oh well. Sorry. Keep your receipt for a full refund.

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