I had to catch the first 3 qtrs of the game via audio only yesterday... with only glimpses of a TV here and there thru the 3rd. I was able to catch the 4th qtr via TV.

So tonight I put played my recording of the game...

Peyton played a good game. He had a couple of questionable throws that were interesting, and that hurry up on 3rd downs didn't work out too well, but overall he was in control of the game. It didn't look like he was out of sync or that the Ravens could keep him flustered or take us out of what we wanted to do.

That said, sometimes all it takes is one bad play to turn a game so I know where the detractors are coming from when they are casting a critical eye at Peyton. OTOH... now that the defense has decided that Freeney and Mathis don't have to pash rush and try and spin around the outside every.... single... down.... our defense is making it possible for our offense to play without a ton of pressure (the pressure to be perfect) on each possession. We don't have to have perfect offense when the defense plays like this.

Not only did the overused outside pass rush of Freeney and Mathis create gaping holes for the opposition to run to but it also was forcing the opposition away from their throwing game anyway (because who wants to throw when there was such an intense pass rush coming (seemingly) every down?). So IMHO it was failing on two levels. Someone finally figured out that stopping (and slowing) the run first, even if we did invite the other team to throw, was actually a benefit for the Colts (our pass defense isn't bad, plus the opposing offense can't be as safe throwing as opposed to running and might just make some unforced errors of their own when putting the ball in the air (like receivers running the wrong routes, QB's over/under throwing the recievers, bad snaps, or plain old dropped balls). And this has allowed us to start mixing it up again and keep the opposition guessing as the game wears on. So all of a sudden we can take advantage of Freeney and Mathis as pass rushers again as long as we keep things less predictable. Maybe it's a whole lot more complicated than that but that's at least that seems to me to be what we've changed (plus added Bob Sanders).

I'm a sucker for watching a defense be a big factor in wins. And that's what they are doing so far in these playoffs.

.02
-Bball

01-15-2007, 01:12 PM

ABADays

Re: I told you so!

What is the common thread between the game Manning played and the game Brady played? Brady threw the ball 51 TIMES with 3 picks. The common thread - they both won! That's why they are considered the best.

01-15-2007, 07:19 PM

brichard

Re: I told you so!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Destined4Greatness

Whats that have to do with the fact he sucked today against a weaker D than we played against.

Either Both Sucked, or they both controlled the ball and did what was needed to win.

I have no comment on Brady's performance yesterday as I did not watch it. I am just saying that historically Brady has shown he is a solid performer in the playoffs. I don't think anybody walks around and says "Man wait until the playoffs, Brady really mails it in then." Even Peyton was giving props to the Patriots after our win saying that "The Patriots are a whole different team in the playoffs." Mr. Brady has a couple of Superbowl rings on his finger as well. Although Trent Dilfer proved you don't have to be a good QB to win a Superbowl, I think most agree that Brady is solid.

Now, count on your hand how many people say the same thing about Peyton. How many people say "That Peyton has ice in his veins in the playoffs!"

01-15-2007, 07:31 PM

brichard

Re: I told you so!

DK,

I'm just saying that I haven't heard anything positive regarding Peyton in conversations I have had with people regarding our playoff performance. Obviously everbody is happy to get the win, but I've heard nothing but harsh words regarding Peytons individual performance. I mean 100% of the people I have encountered feel the same way as Shade and I do.

Props to the defense? All day long! Props to the offensive line! You betcha! Props to Addai week one and Rhodes Week 2? Constantly! Mention Peyton and all I have heard, with the exception of this thread, are grumbles and moans.

I keep hearing how he controlled the game and I just don't see it that way. I've suggested for the past 2 weeks that we needed to start controlling the clock, and I think the thought for running the football is probably more attributable to Dungy/Moore and Co. in terms of their strategy than Manning. But since we don't know, he could potentially have some props here.

As good as the Ravens are as a football team, we are very lucky that they missed some very fortuitous opportunities. We are also very lucky our defense came up with some well timed turnovers or we easily could have wound up with a loss. Part of Peytons "success" on passing is the fact that Baltimore rarely capitalized on his miscues. If the defenders aren't holding on to the ball and you throw "X" amount of passes, you will get completions.

Just so I end this thread on a positive note... we did win. And I still say we have won in spite of Peyton rather than because of him. And since he knows he has played poorly in 2 consecutive games and the team has still won, perhaps he can unclench his buttocks and bring us a victory. I would like nothing more and he is certainly capable.

:cheers: :woot:

01-15-2007, 10:00 PM

brich

Re: I told you so!

For what it's worth, I have a great friend who used to live next door to me when I lived in Boston, who is a rabid Patriots fan. He loves the Patriots, and he loves Tom Brady, but he thought Brady did not play well at all yesterday. He felt lucky that the Patriots were able to get the W with the effort they put in. I thought Brady was fortunate that he didn't get more picks...because he was really forcing the ball yesterday into double and triple coverage.

My view on Peyton is that he has not played well in the playoffs so far, and I sincerely don't think the grand concensus is that he has. As a fan, to a certain point I don't care, because we won, but I am concerned. In the playoffs, everybody is going to have to step up at one time or another, and so far, our defense has stepped up HUGE. I am still hopeful that Peyton will have a big game or two.

I think alot of Peyton's legacy, whether it be fair or not, will hinge on how he plays against the Patriots. Many people still think Belichick gets in Peyton's head, and I can guarantee you that many people I know in Boston who are Pats fans think that is the case. To a point, Peyton, and the Colts have put that to bed with their regular season performances, but they have not been able to prove they can beat them in the playoffs.

The media will spin this as Peyton vs. Brady and Belichick. If the Colts win, then I think history will be forgiving if his stats aren't good. If they lose it will be an albatross around his neck. I am not saying this is fair, but perception is reality, and I think that is how it would be perceived. That is my opinion anyway.

I hope Peyton has a great game and we get the W...but if he throws 5 INTs and we win, then I will still be happy.

01-15-2007, 10:10 PM

Destined4Greatness

Re: I told you so!

Quote:

Originally Posted by brichard

I have no comment on Brady's performance yesterday as I did not watch it. I am just saying that historically Brady has shown he is a solid performer in the playoffs. I don't think anybody walks around and says "Man wait until the playoffs, Brady really mails it in then." Even Peyton was giving props to the Patriots after our win saying that "The Patriots are a whole different team in the playoffs." Mr. Brady has a couple of Superbowl rings on his finger as well. Although Trent Dilfer proved you don't have to be a good QB to win a Superbowl, I think most agree that Brady is solid.

Now, count on your hand how many people say the same thing about Peyton. How many people say "That Peyton has ice in his veins in the playoffs!"

So the **** What people say, the world once thought the world was flat doesn't mean people are right.

01-15-2007, 10:21 PM

brichard

Re: I told you so!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Destined4Greatness

So the **** What people say, the world once thought the world was flat doesn't mean people are right.

Tom Brady's Playoff Record- 12-1
Peyton Manning's Playoff Record- 5-6

You're right, Tom Brady sucks. :rolleyes:

Please enlighten me, just out of morbid curiosity, what makes you think Tom Brady is not a steallar QB? Even if he did have a crappy game yesterday, one game a player does not make.

01-16-2007, 04:33 AM

larry

Re: I told you so!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unclebuck

I thought Baltimore's defense was fantastic. That was why the Colts offense didn't look so good

glad to see you get in on some action over here w/ the colts mr. buck.
you are the die hard pacer guy that supports even in dark times gotta love that.
the colts could use your support.
yes, peyton had to face t. law and then the entire ravens d.
the bears still have a tough d, and the pats will be well game planned.

correct me if i'm wrong but i was in the stands when the pats stopped edge on the 1 yard line and that was the year they went on to win ring 1. i know they put in the injury time out rule, because W. Mcgginst played like he had hurt his knee. that gave the bigger, but slower pats the final breath they needed to stop the run. i also saw d. clark hurt his leg badly right in front of my row 6 mid feild seat.
we have played the pats a ton since, but that had to be 5 years ago. clark was a rookie. have the pats had a game here since? if so name it please.

sorry for my spelling and grammer i've been sipping a littlte, well alot.

01-16-2007, 04:44 AM

larry

Re: I told you so!

brady & manning are the best qb's playing in the nfl today.
i know i used to shun brady and say its just his team and gameplan.
he was like big ben to me, just in a good situation. i have found alot of new found respect for him. he has lost a ton of weapons and here he is. his 3rd down conversion rate is a killer. he killed me by getting my hopes up and then converting the 1st down on a 3rd and long many times. i saw alot of the same against the chargers. he is and the pats offense is just sneaky good and frustrating. of course the chips had to fall the pats way and they got pretty damn lucky, but hey i still say so did pitt against us last year. to win it all the chips will have to fall your way a few times.

drew brees is also looking like he is going to be right there w/ manning & brady. if he gets a ring or throws up another year or 2 on par w/ this year he's there. i think he will continue to be this good, but he's still gotta go do it.

01-16-2007, 07:58 AM

Slick Pinkham

Re: I told you so!

Nobody anywhere said Brady overall played a great game. They (the media) are saying he led a great 4th quarter comeback. There is a difference.

He wasn't awful. The Chargers D was incredible and he had to force it often. Most of his COMPLETIONS were to well-covered receivers.

01-16-2007, 08:55 AM

DisplacedKnick

Re: I told you so!

Quote:

Originally Posted by brichard

DK,

I'm just saying that I haven't heard anything positive regarding Peyton in conversations I have had with people regarding our playoff performance. Obviously everbody is happy to get the win, but I've heard nothing but harsh words regarding Peytons individual performance.

Yes - if he doesn't throw a bunch of TD passes it isn't a good game for him. And all other aspects of offensive performance such as clock and time management, etc., are automatically discounted as having anything to do with him.

As I said before, Indianapolis would not support a defense-based team. Polian had it right.

You even have posters on here saying that a great offense can't be affected by a great defense. That's just plain goofy.

01-16-2007, 10:10 AM

Destined4Greatness

Re: I told you so!

Quote:

Originally Posted by brichard

Tom Brady's Playoff Record- 12-1
Peyton Manning's Playoff Record- 5-6

You're right, Tom Brady sucks. :rolleyes:

Please enlighten me, just out of morbid curiosity, what makes you think Tom Brady is not a steallar QB? Even if he did have a crappy game yesterday, one game a player does not make.

So you are going to take a team stat like victories in comparison of two QB's thats really really a bright idea. Yeah Brady didn't have any help in those game.

Man Peyton had it right people are stupid, there are 2 choices, either A the Colts win or B Peyton loses. Well I guess he was wrong C) Both

And stop putting words in my mouth I never said Brady sucks, so either A) Put some content into your posts or B) Be quiet and stop blindly hating on Peyton without any base on which to do so.

01-16-2007, 06:26 PM

ChicagoJ

Re: I told you so!

I think you're both right, but you aren't really talking about the same things.

Peyton finally had a good game a play caller/ offensive coordinator, and that's been the #1 knock on him anyway - his refusal or inability to manage the clock because he had the ability to "strike quickly".

That, of course, is not normally the QB's job. However, it will be very important for the Colts for him to have an equally excellent game as the play caller against NE, because they've got a lot of experience going on the road (normally into Pittsburgh) and winning AFC Title games when they're the underdog. Moreso that Brady just being a "winner", which he is, Belichick is a tremendously good big-game coach.

He didn't throw the ball well, and had some lousy passes and overall stats. Those are the things you normally look to the quarterback for.

01-16-2007, 07:14 PM

brichard

Re: I told you so!

Quote:

Originally Posted by DisplacedKnick

Yes - if he doesn't throw a bunch of TD passes it isn't a good game for him. And all other aspects of offensive performance such as clock and time management, etc., are automatically discounted as having anything to do with him.

As I said before, Indianapolis would not support a defense-based team. Polian had it right.

You even have posters on here saying that a great offense can't be affected by a great defense. That's just plain goofy.

Well, I think Bill Polian is dead wrong. At the end of the day, people will show up b/c you have A) Victories or B) Tradition. Since Indy has no football tradition ala the Steelers, Bears, Cowboys, etc., they need to get W's. If they were 14-0 with a defensive based team, they would pack 'em in. IU football certainly wasn't setting any attendance records with Antwaan Randle El and he was one of the most explosive players in the country at the time. The problem was they weren't winning many games. And I know that is college vs. Pro, but it has happened with teams like the Pacers as well.

You write above that if Peyton doesn't "throw a bunch of TD passes" that people say he didn't have a good game. Although I'm sure some people feel that way, I know that isn't what I'm asking for. But to not get one TD? And to throw 4-5 sure fire interceptions?

I think a good defense affects a good offense, but it shouldn't eliminate your ability to score a single touchdown. And it isn't as if Peyton's backs were oft turning over the ball either. He simply could not figure out a way to get it in the end zone. It is just my philosophy that you not let another teams strength elminate your strength, it is a bit of a losers mentality.

I still say we don't know who to give the kudos on clock management to, but it is at least a partial if not full feather in Peytons cap. And I think that some may think I am a Peyton naysayer, and I'm really not. I'll defend him if I feel like interceptions weren't his fault. And let's face it, we wouldn't be in this position if it weren't for Peyton. He's an absolute phenomenal QB, he just tends to be a class better in the regular season vs. the post season in my opinion.

Anyway DK, you always make me think so I appreciate your thoughts. Even if they are wrong of course... :cool:

01-16-2007, 07:51 PM

brichard

Re: I told you so!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Destined4Greatness

So you are going to take a team stat like victories in comparison of two QB's thats really really a bright idea. Yeah Brady didn't have any help in those game.

Dude, what are you using for an evaluation of a quarterback? You continue to ridicule any data I throw in to the mix, yet you don't refute it with different data. Victories in and of themself are not complete barometers to success. But, they are a key component if you are trying to see if somebody is a winner. I even admitted that Brady had some better teams than Peyton, but if we are trying to determine if Tom Brady is a good quarterback under pressure (playoffs,) then his Won and Loss record is an absolutely great statistic to look at. You'd have to at least deduct that he isn't so inept as to ruin his teams ability to win games. It doesn't tell the full story, but it does tell part of the story.

Quote:

Man Peyton had it right people are stupid, there are 2 choices, either A the Colts win or B Peyton loses. Well I guess he was wrong C) Both

What does that mean? The losses of the Colts have categorically been blamed on the defense for the last few games of the season. Even Peyton made a comment about "not being able to play both sides." I was a little hard on him b/c my expectations of him are unbelievaby high, but I know I had a minority opinion there.

Quote:

And stop putting words in my mouth I never said Brady sucks, so either A) Put some content into your posts or B) Be quiet and stop blindly hating on Peyton without any base on which to do so.

Well, you did say he sucked yesterday as you can see.

Quote:

Whats that have to do with the fact he sucked today against a weaker D than we played against. Either Both Sucked, or they both controlled the ball and did what was needed to win.

When I defended his reputation:

Quote:

have no comment on Brady's performance yesterday as I did not watch it. I am just saying that historically Brady has shown he is a solid performer in the playoffs. I don't think anybody walks around and says "Man wait until the playoffs, Brady really mails it in then." Even Peyton was giving props to the Patriots after our win saying that "The Patriots are a whole different team in the playoffs." Mr. Brady has a couple of Superbowl rings on his finger as well. Although Trent Dilfer proved you don't have to be a good QB to win a Superbowl, I think most agree that Brady is solid.

Now, count on your hand how many people say the same thing about Peyton. How many people say "That Peyton has ice in his veins in the playoffs!"

You replied with the brilliant reply:

Quote:

So the **** What people say, the world once thought the world was flat doesn't mean people are right.

So if I say Tom Brady is viewed as a stellar QB in the playoffs, and I mention that it is a common view. You turn around and say that just b/c people say something doesn't make it right. So since I say Brady is good and you say people don't know anything, I'm drawing the conclusion that you disagree.

You don't like the content in my posts, yet you have added zero to the last several posts on this thread. I mean I have no idea what your point is on this thread other than to blindly defend Peyton. You offer no explanation to why he threw into double and triple coverage. You are just flaming rather than engaging in a debate.

You'll notice that DK and I have kept the gloves and intellect in play while having differeing opinions. You should attempt to do the same. Calling people stupid and adding **** to your posts shows an absolute lack of maturity. When people run out of intelligent things to say, they go to insults.

01-16-2007, 07:53 PM

brichard

Re: I told you so!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jay@Section19

I think you're both right, but you aren't really talking about the same things.

Peyton finally had a good game a play caller/ offensive coordinator, and that's been the #1 knock on him anyway - his refusal or inability to manage the clock because he had the ability to "strike quickly".

That, of course, is not normally the QB's job. However, it will be very important for the Colts for him to have an equally excellent game as the play caller against NE, because they've got a lot of experience going on the road (normally into Pittsburgh) and winning AFC Title games when they're the underdog. Moreso that Brady just being a "winner", which he is, Belichick is a tremendously good big-game coach.

He didn't throw the ball well, and had some lousy passes and overall stats. Those are the things you normally look to the quarterback for.

Good points Jay. I just don't think the Peyton of the KC or Baltimore game is going to get it done. He has a greatness in him that I have not seen come out yet. When it does... watch out NFL.

01-16-2007, 08:53 PM

DisplacedKnick

Re: I told you so!

Quote:

Originally Posted by brichard

Anyway DK, you always make me think so I appreciate your thoughts. Even if they are wrong of course... :cool:

LOL - I think I'll leave this thread with that. This horse has been beat so much you could serve him for lunch at the old folks' home.

01-17-2007, 12:38 AM

clownskull

Re: I told you so!

i too give major props to the defense. this is a group that does not resemble what the regular season crew was putting out (most thankfully). they have actually been the main reason the colts have been winning. i can't help but think the return of sanders has been just huge.
not only do the colts get another game at the dome, but it would be super sweet if we could beat the pats again this season. that alone would be 2/3rd's as sweet as winning it all but, not quite as sweet.
c'mon colts-- get the pats-- get some revenge for post seasons past!!!