3 Comments On This Entry

Hi Chris.

I agree with your overall point especially vis-a-vis comparing christians v muslims. But I disagree with the idea that there was "nothing" to be ashamed of.

Let's not forget that while the Muslims undoubtedly got the brunt of the crusaders' wrath, the Jews did not go unscathed; The crusades - especially the FIRST Crusade - all but eradicated "Ashkenazi" Jewry; I'd even go so far as to call this the original 'Holocaust'. Heck, I'll go even further and say that the Holocaust of the 1930s/1940s may not have even happened if the crusaders hadn't first set the example.

For all practical purposes, the only difference between how the crusaders treated Muslims and Jews was that they killed Muslims outright whilst Jews were given a chance to convert or be killed.

"Convert or Die". I'm just not sure I grok the nuance between a Crusader saying that to a Jew, and a modern-day member of Those ISILs or Boko Haraam saying that to a non-muslim. Either way, dead is dead. When you do that to a non-combatant 'civilian', there's a word for it that starts with a 'T'. The crusaders were guilty of it.

If the crusaders had to go though a "Nuremburg" today? The verdict would undoubtedly be "guilty".

Even MORE egregious is that after the loss of Jerusalem (1187) the crusaders increasingly turned upon our own fellow Christians with things like the "Albigensian Crusade" against "Cathars" (1209-1229), and ESPECIALLY after the fall of ACRE in 1291 turned increasingly inward culminating in "The Inquisition", in which not only Muslims but Jews BOTH got the brunt of it.

KILL someone because they either worship a different God, or even worship the SAME God in a different manner? NO. That's where *I* get off the bus.

Hi Chris.I agree with your overall point especially vis-a-vis comparing christians v muslims. But I disagree with the idea that there was &quot;nothing&quot; to be ashamed of.Let's not forget that while the Muslims undoubtedly got the brunt of the crusaders' wrath, the Jews did not go unscathed; The crusades - especially the FIRST Crusade - all but eradicated &quot;Ashkenazi&quot; Jewry; I'd even go so far as to call this the original 'Holocaust'. Heck, I'll go even further and say that the Holocaust of the 1930s/1940s may not have even happened if the crusaders hadn't first set the example. For all practical purposes, the only difference between how the crusaders treated Muslims and Jews was that they killed Muslims outright whilst Jews were given a chance to convert or be killed. &quot;Convert or Die&quot;. I'm just not sure I grok the nuance between a Crusader saying that to a Jew, and a modern-day member of Those ISILs or Boko Haraam saying that to a non-muslim. Either way, dead is dead. When you do that to a non-combatant 'civilian', there's a word for it that starts with a 'T'. The crusaders were guilty of it. If the crusaders had to go though a &quot;Nuremburg&quot; today? The verdict would undoubtedly be &quot;guilty&quot;.Even MORE egregious is that after the loss of Jerusalem (1187) the crusaders increasingly turned upon our own fellow Christians with things like the &quot;Albigensian Crusade&quot; against &quot;Cathars&quot; (1209-1229), and ESPECIALLY after the fall of ACRE in 1291 turned increasingly inward culminating in &quot;The Inquisition&quot;, in which not only Muslims but Jews BOTH got the brunt of it.KILL someone because they either worship a different God, or even worship the SAME God in a different manner? NO. That's where *I* get off the bus.

You haven’t given a reason why modern Christians should be ashamed. We had nothing to do with it either way. Also, you act like they just decided one day to get all murderous. Gee, I wonder what might have gotten their dander up.

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