Why do people in Texas think Illinois is a big deal in St. Louis? Where are they getting that impression? I see it on multiple boards and am baffled at its origin.

I lived in St. Louis for 5 years. There is an Illinois presence in the town, but it is not large and certainly not anywhere close to 1/2 the metro area or carrying the town.

And the Illinois presence is shrinking. Funding issues at U of I have made it much less affordable, and fewer St. Louis-area high schoolers are going to Illinois. Meanwhile, Mizzou is attracting huge numbers of suburban kids out of Chicago because of the cost comparisons of the two schools.

Looks like 4,500 according to the UI Alumni Network. Sounds about right. And that's really not backed up by t-shirt fans much at all.

There are 80,000 KU alumni in Kansas City and another 15,000 in Lawrence-Topeka so I am suspicious of that low a number from a school bigger than KU. I'd guess that is the number of dues paying alum and not the total.

There are 80,000 KU alumni in Kansas City and another 15,000 in Lawrence-Topeka so I am suspicious of that low a number from a school bigger than KU. I'd guess that is the number of dues paying alum and not the total.

SIU reports 12,000 alumni there.

Where else is an Kansas grad going to go? It's Lawrence, Topeka or Kansas City for most.

I wouldn't be shocked if there are more SIU alums in St. Louis than Illinois. It's the closest major city to SIU, and southern Illinois really fits Missouri culture much more than the Lake Michigan portion of the state (where all the population is).

Illinois grads have Chicago as a primary beacon. Indianapolis is closer than St. Louis and Milwaukee is about as close, and they, like a lot of Big Ten schools, send a lot of grads to the East Coast. More options.

I assume most universities have more alums in their "feeder" cities than reported by official alumni counts. Missouri's count in KC is low. So it wouldn't surprise me if there are more than 4500 U of I grads in St. Louis. But enough to make claims about Illinois splitting or "covering" St. Louis? No way.

Fair enough. Mizzou reports 20,000 in Kansas City which seems like the same situation to Illinois there. I would bet there are 20-30,000 Illinois alums actually there. That site lists only 45,000 of them in Chicago and that seems impossibly low.

I point it out because the SEC claimed to capture KC' market with MU so to me, the same logic seems appropriate about the Big doing the same in St Louis. Some argued Nebraska brought KC to te Big and that make zero sense. I never, ever hear a peep about that conference living here.

Fair enough. Mizzou reports 20,000 in Kansas City which seems like the same situation to Illinois there. I would bet there are 20-30,000 Illinois alums actually there. That site lists only 45,000 of them in Chicago and that seems impossibly low.

I point it out because the SEC claimed to capture KC' market with MU so to me, the same logic seems appropriate about the Big doing the same in St Louis. Some argued Nebraska brought KC to te Big and that make zero sense. I never, ever hear a peep about that conference living here.

Have you lived in both cities? I have. Illinois' footprint in St. Louis is NOWHERE close to Missouri's in Kansas City.

You said "seems like the same situation to Illinois there" in reference to Mizzou in KC, and then estimate there are 5-6x as many Illinois alums in St. Louis as projected.

If it's "the same situation" with underreporting, the Missouri numbers in KC would need to be multiplied by the same factor as the Illinois numbers in St. Louis.

Have you lived in both cities? I have. Illinois' footprint in St. Louis is NOWHERE close to Missouri's in Kansas City.

You said "seems like the same situation to Illinois there" in reference to Mizzou in KC, and then estimate there are 5-6x as many Illinois alums in St. Louis as projected.

If it's "the same situation" with underreporting, the Missouri numbers in KC would need to be multiplied by the same factor as the Illinois numbers in St. Louis.

Either the 20,000 number is low for Mizzou, or the 80,000 number for KU is high. The 80,000 number does seem to be an outlier among the cited statistcs. Of course, they could be counting Topeka and Wichita as KC suburbs.

Missouri State's alumni total in KC is low as well. But with 40% of the metro in Kansas the numbers make sense for both MSU and MU. But with the MIAA schools fairly close to KC it hurts actual alumni numbers. KC kids have quite a bit of public schools to choose from close. STL doesn't really and that sends the big numbers to both MU and MSU. But the D2 school alums help feed the Wal-Mart t-shirt fan base which is needed.

Either the 20,000 number is low for Mizzou, or the 80,000 number for KU is high. The 80,000 number does seem to be an outlier among the cited statistcs. Of course, they could be counting Topeka and Wichita as KC suburbs.

It is the criteria. My understanding is that KU (and perhaps Kstate although I am not for sure on them) counts anyone who's attended the school in their figure while MU counts graduates only. Their actual # of graduates in town is probably half that or somewhere whereabouts.

DI is correct regarding UI and their lack of presence in Stl, it's an MU town, which stands to reason. As for why people in Tx think UI has a presence in Stl it's probably the same reason they all assume a Kansas Citian is from Kansas. Just ignorance.

Excellent argument. Clearly this is the key thing here, not facts - but where "Duncan Idaho" has lived.

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Illinois' footprint in St. Louis is NOWHERE close to Missouri's in Kansas City.

Yes it is.

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You said "seems like the same situation to Illinois there" in reference to Mizzou in KC, and then estimate there are 5-6x as many Illinois alums in St. Louis as projected.

I'm telling you to use your brain and think about the likelihood that a major university with 43,000 undergrads - 2 hours away from a city of 3M people - would have only 4K alums there. Use your head Duncan.

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If it's "the same situation" with underreporting, the Missouri numbers in KC would need to be multiplied by the same factor as the Illinois numbers in St. Louis.

It is the criteria. My understanding is that KU (and perhaps Kstate although I am not for sure on them) counts anyone who's attended the school in their figure while MU counts graduates only. Their actual # of graduates in town is probably half that or somewhere whereabouts..

KU reports non-grads in their alumni count (since the word "alumni" refers to any student) so you are very correct there.

Mizzou has to be doing the same and here's why: They claim 20K in Kansas City, and another 60K in St Louis. That's equivalent to what KU reports in Kansas City. It makes sense that MIzzou's alum base would be more split between the two cities and that KU's woudl be heavily concentrated a half hour from their campus. Since KU=MU in enrollment for over 100 years, their alumni counts will be the same in aggregate.