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Re: A Strange Question that needs views on.

Realism vs. Idealism right there. It's easy to see it from Obito's point of view (heck I'm sure there are millions of people who feel the same). I'm not gonna lie and say that I'm not selfish - if I wasn't I would be trying my best to help others, not just post on a Naruto forum. I guess the best way to go about in this world is to live by what you truly believe in and have no regrets by your death (just my personal take on it).

Re: A Strange Question that needs views on.

Originally Posted by staticdash22

Yeah, Obito is the "negative" naruto. What could have happened if he wasn't steered in the right direction. For Obito, it was the pain of losing someone you love. Rin was his "light" if you will, and after losing himself he didn't that that person who could be his voice of reason/stability. I thought it was symbolic when he was crushed under the rock holding Rin's hand, and then he told her to hurry and escape when meant he let go of his "light", his "hope". For naruto last chapter proved the prophecy of the old toad sage, he had a decision and obito almost talk no jutsu'd him which makes him exactly like naruto, they both can be somewhat convincing & inspiring. Naruto was waken up by hinata, who's name means "sunny place", so she's his light, and instead of forgetting the hand, he grabbed the "light" & the "hope" which was hinata's hand.

Basically, Kishi is saying we can do either of two things. Submit and be weighed down by the world, or we can grab a hold of the light, the hope no matter how small it might be. Things in the world are bad, but the thing is, that things can be better, and it's a good start. It begins with us. sorry for the long analysis, just my thoughts.

That was excellent, I'm glad I read that because it's a very good thing to see, but do you yourself personally believe in what Kishi is trying to say, people with power come and promise change but the only change is things get worse, if you look around you today, looking at our generation you may see people who are separated from the rest because they may be smarter, more athletic or perceived as better in some way, but do you really think that everyone can be winners? there's always losers and losing in itself may be all that someone is capable of, when we lose the light in our lives we are enveloped by darkness and stop moving forward in life, when we need support the most the people who you call comrades are the ones who offer no help, when we lose our light and we gain another that light will be dimmer than the first one if you know what i'm trying to say, I value your opinion very much but I ask you, do you truly believe what you just wrote or are you making yourself believe in it?

Re: A Strange Question that needs views on.

Re: A Strange Question that needs views on.

Originally Posted by Drakengard

Realism vs. Idealism right there. It's easy to see it from Obito's point of view (heck I'm sure there are millions of people who feel the same). I'm not gonna lie and say that I'm not selfish - if I wasn't I would be trying my best to help others, not just post on a Naruto forum. I guess the best way to go about in this world is to live by what you truly believe in and have no regrets by your death (just my personal take on it).

I also understand what you're trying to say, in my opinion all of this starts from Loneliness, I have been alone all my life always wishing I had someone who I knew actually cared weather I lived or died and when I found that person and lost her I felt a pain that I had never felt before in my life, but now I see that, that pain is what we all share as people, that pain is what creates bonds of true relations because we both understand what it feels like, but in our generation dreams, aims and goals are all made almost impossible and living life without regrets is extremely hard you know?

Re: A Strange Question that needs views on.

Originally Posted by Arian

ive always said that obito isnt really evil...neither was pain. they simply want to achieve peace in their own way.. and since humanity is practically unable to achieve peace it seems like methods like these are the only options.. go read "Brave New Worl" from Huxley..thats also one attempt to achieve peace.. its a great book. in order to achieve peace one must sacrifice ones freedom of opinion and feelings.. i for myself think that would be worth doing so, since there are tons of people who would deserve a much better live, but dont have it(meaning poor/sick people. war orphans etc.) i always said and will keep on saying.. Naruto is not only a story or comic. is a philosophie

I see what you're trying to say, I myself always dreamed of a world where people didn't have to go through so much pain in their life, I felt like I can relate to Naruto because I lived his life, I've bee an outcast all my life and I still am, emotions are the reason we all find ourselves in the problems we are in now, we are unable to control what happens in the world because only people who have power are able to make any difference. I will check out that book, thank you for the recomendation :D

Re: A Strange Question that needs views on.

i can understand what obito is talking about as the world is full of pain and misery but that isnt all there is to life there is also enjoyment and hope and ambition obito wants to take away free will as he dosent want people to feel the pain that he once felt but in the end i guess there is no right or wrong answer as its down to your own perception.

Re: A Strange Question that needs views on.

Originally Posted by kobak

He is right but everybody has the right to mess up his/her own life the way he/she wants.

True, but if everyone messed up their lives there will always be that regret, and from regret envy and jealousy are born, and from those hate is born, we make our mistakes in lives but instead of blaming ourselves we blame those around us

Re: A Strange Question that needs views on.

Originally Posted by Kurama2012

i can understand what obito is talking about as the world is full of pain and misery but that isnt all there is to life there is also enjoyment and hope and ambition obito wants to take away free will as he dosent want people to feel the pain that he once felt but in the end i guess there is no right or wrong answer as its down to your own perception.

What you're saying is understandable but Hope is a delusion, we pray and believe in change because we ourselves know that we can't do much if not anything at all to try and help our dying world, to me happiness is something I haven't felt in many years, i'm not depressed, nor am I sad, I feel... nothing as so to speak, If we were to all come together maybe a change would be made. In Naruto I believe Obito is only doing the things that the rest of the world is brave enough to do

Re: A Strange Question that needs views on.

Originally Posted by Jin Hayami

I feel like I should be passing out razor blades. Look I like my life. Naruto and the rest of the world obviously like their lives. So one emo ******* doesn't like his life so he's gonna ruin it for everyone else? Sounds like suicide would have been the easier option on his part.

No there is no need to, I truly do not consider I or anyone else here an Emo, often people are afraid to talk about what they really think and all it takes is one person to start talking about it to inspire other people to talk about their beliefs and ideals, I don't see what he is doing as ruining everyone elses lives but merely trying to improve it so nobody has to suffer the pain that is reality

Re: A Strange Question that needs views on.

Originally Posted by StraawHat

That was excellent, I'm glad I read that because it's a very good thing to see, but do you yourself personally believe in what Kishi is trying to say, people with power come and promise change but the only change is things get worse, if you look around you today, looking at our generation you may see people who are separated from the rest because they may be smarter, more athletic or perceived as better in some way, but do you really think that everyone can be winners? there's always losers and losing in itself may be all that someone is capable of, when we lose the light in our lives we are enveloped by darkness and stop moving forward in life, when we need support the most the people who you call comrades are the ones who offer no help, when we lose our light and we gain another that light will be dimmer than the first one if you know what i'm trying to say, I value your opinion very much but I ask you, do you truly believe what you just wrote or are you making yourself believe in it?

Actually I do understand what obito is saying and alot of it is true. Just think about the decisions that governments make. No matter the decision there will always be someone who will be screwed over & hurt in order to accomplish your goals. I think this is a lesson that Kishi wants naruto to realize. He has to be weary of the lives he will affect when you're under a leadership position. From that pain that was caused by their decisions, comes hate. What I was saying is that yes, we need to fully understand how the world works, it isn't black & white, but one big grey area. Acknowledge that the world is getting worse, but that is where kishi's message comes in. What are we gonna do about it? Sit on our couch, and say "hey it's not me so whatever". Or do you stand on your values when society has lost theirs. People will always judge another based on their looks/athletic ability, and ect.

This is a quote I hear in Assassin's Creed:

"Those you sought to protect have turned their backs on you, and you still resist, why"?

"Because No one else will!"

Sometimes you may be the last one with any sort of sense left, does that mean you should stop fighting? Nah

FOOD?I love it. CHICKENS iBAKE; But if you want BEEFthen your life is at STEAK!!!

Re: A Strange Question that needs views on.

Originally Posted by StraawHat

Ok before I ask the question, I'm going to add a little background to it. Before I ever got into Naruto and started reading manga I used to be pretty negative on life on the inside but on the outside very happy go lucky... you could go as far as to say goofy. Recently my friend ( who had previously been into the series ) constantly referred to me as Tobi, I never understood what that meant until he told me to get into the Naruto series so as I went home i researched it since then I've been reading everything that's happened and would like to know if you guys think that this statement is true.

Applying everything into more realistic settings I think that Kishimoto has made Obito right in every way however, I don't think what he's really saying is applying to the Naruto world, I think it's applying more to the world that we live in because I personally agree with almost everything that he's saying and I do not understand why people are disagreeing with what Obito is saying because inside they know he is absolutely true, I'd like to get opinions on what people think about what Obito's saying, if he's truly right or wrong, no stupid arguments about "Oh he's just angry because he got friend zoned" I would genuinely like to get people's feed back on what Obito is actually saying because I find him as a very relate able character as well as Naruto but I would still appreciate feedback?

It's like itachi san said "we all live in our convictions and what we believe to be real"
The obito you know died under that rock and when he awoke he believed he was in the afterlife.He never let go of that notion and thinks that the world he currently resides in is "hell" due to rin's deaath.
Maybe to him infinite tsuyokomi is his key to heaven because he thinks it will make everyone happy regardless of how they feel now since there in "hell" with him. For him this is redemption.

Re: A Strange Question that needs views on.

The world belongs to no one, no one is the leader and no one is at the bottom. We as humans decided that, not some God. As the world grew older everyone just got more carefree, this generation is worse then the past one, and that past one is worse then the one before that, yes the world is continually decaying. But for it to be rescued, we must recue ourselves, someone else telling us won't allow us to realize anything. It's a really controversial topic and I could write an essay on it, but I don't have the time nor space.

Re: A Strange Question that needs views on.

Originally Posted by StraawHat

True, but if everyone messed up their lives there will always be that regret, and from regret envy and jealousy are born, and from those hate is born, we make our mistakes in lives but instead of blaming ourselves we blame those around us

The world still goes on.There have always been happy and unhappy people and always will. That's the way it goes.

FOOD?I love it. CHICKENS iBAKE; But if you want BEEFthen your life is at STEAK!!!

Re: A Strange Question that needs views on.

Originally Posted by Ninpou

The world isn't getting worse and worse, your just hearing more about the ****ed up shit that happens. Media wasn't as powerful and influencing 20 years ago.

With technology on the rise media has become the new outlet for lazy knowledge seekers. If its true or not depends on the writer. In most cases its not and media in a sense can be used to condition the mind. Knowledge not obtained and tested by yourself is just word of mouth but in today's age its considered "truth"

Re: A Strange Question that needs views on.

Originally Posted by staticdash22

Actually I do understand what obito is saying and alot of it is true. Just think about the decisions that governments make. No matter the decision there will always be someone who will be screwed over & hurt in order to accomplish your goals. I think this is a lesson that Kishi wants naruto to realize. He has to be weary of the lives he will affect when you're under a leadership position. From that pain that was caused by their decisions, comes hate. What I was saying is that yes, we need to fully understand how the world works, it isn't black & white, but one big grey area. Acknowledge that the world is getting worse, but that is where kishi's message comes in. What are we gonna do about it? Sit on our couch, and say "hey it's not me so whatever". Or do you stand on your values when society has lost theirs. People will always judge another based on their looks/athletic ability, and ect.

This is a quote I hear in Assassin's Creed:

"Those you sought to protect have turned their backs on you, and you still resist, why"?

"Because No one else will!"

Sometimes you may be the last one with any sort of sense left, does that mean you should stop fighting? Nah

Yes I see where it is you are coming from but think about it, what we do in life doesn't affect much in life, we leave the big decision making to the higher upps and when they make a decision it most likely doesn't benefit us, we live in a world were all different kinds of segregation causes us to be separated as a society amungst certain groups, we can all acknowledge the fact that our world is getting better but even Kishi himself knows that he doesn't have an answer on how to solve the plagues that ruin lives, if he had known then Naruto would surely have been able to protect his loved ones by creating this peace he has power and responsibility, he knows that it's because of him that many people have laid down their lives and died but how many people do we know are willing to put their life on the line to make the world a better place for others? a very small if not nothing of a handful of people. We all resist the fact that we know ways to make a difference but we do not care enough to go out and make an actual difference, even I myself go out and try to make a difference but yet all my despite my best efforts all I can do is inspire the younger to follow the fake role model I let them believe I am because the children of the next gen are our only salvation, people of this gen are selfish and all have evil in their hearts, I will freely admit that I do to, but inside our hearts is also good but people choose to hide this away from others from fear of being hurt, this creates distrust between people, families fight and our so called bonds are torn apart, so tell me, answer me this question. Have you ever truly felt pain in your life? Yes that quote does retain a lot of sense but think about it, sometimes retreating and changing your plan is the only way to win the game at the end of the day