Proposal description

tl;dr-- Dash OTC exchange with WallofCoins.comwill be available to the public: vote with your Masternode or by donating to: XxoppjLV4enbnNbEgiA5qk9upMVLG6TmCn

Genitrust is asking for 2000 DASH toget this project started: an OTC exchange for Dash, as integrated with the developed exchange Wall of Coins (https://wallofcoins.com). Vote with your Masternode, or vote directly with your DASH to make this project a reality in 2016.﻿

XxoppjLV4enbnNbEgiA5qk9upMVLG6TmCn

Wall of Coins (WOC) is far more than anOTC exchange, and with Dash it will be...

DASH's adoption boost platform. Wall of Coins is instrumental for people paying backpage.com, and helped
to save backpage.com's business when the Credit Card blockade first happened. WOC will be instrumental to bring DASH to the common person.

﻿As this will be a sizable achievement,there is a ton of information, and I (Robert Genito) will be available at least once every 1-2 hours to answer questions during USA day hours. Here's all of the compiled information I have at this moment:

Let me be entirely clear: this is a huge project, and the Wall of Coins parent company (Genitrust) is very well prepared and experienced to integrate this solution. Depending on the amount of incoming DASH donations, there may need to be another future treasury proposal to raise more DASH. The initial development costs are estimated to be at least $54,000, which we will ask for via the treasury proposal and donations. For the year following the DASH OTC release, technical maintenance and support costs will be at least $58,000, which will be funded and covered entirely by Wall of Coins. With all of your support—Masternode owners and donators—this platform will ready for the public within 2 months!

﻿﻿tl;dr -- Dash OTC exchange with WallofCoins.com will be available to the public: vote with your Masternode or by donating to: XxoppjLV4enbnNbEgiA5qk9upMVLG6TmCn

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Discussion: Should we fund this proposal?

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piggybank1 point,10 months ago

Voting Yes for Next month my friend.
We'll get this one done!

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Stealth9230 points,10 months ago

Voting no - yes its expensive, the ROI is not guaranteed, I dont think the volume that is generated from your business will provide value to Dash vs the cost...sorry

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rgenito (proposal owner)1 point,10 months ago

ROI isn't guaranteed, but a platform for adoption is, a platform giving developers an instant revenue opportunity exists, a platform giving Dash website operators an instant revenue opportunity exists, our current business relationships deciding to also work with Dash (or prefer to work with Dash because of Instant Send) is also on the table, and Genitrust influencing other similar-sized and smaller-sized companies to be interested in Dash.......

This isn't about volume on our site. If bitcoin users truly cared, they'd just use ShapeShift to get into Dash. It's about usability, and it's about Dash acquiring the CASH users, the bankless users, the users who want to use remote cash, etc.

Please spend some time to think about these opportunities.

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Icebucket0 points,10 months ago

Still NO for me, I dont think the budget should be used for paying R&D costs for just one company, its not fair to all of the other companies in the same space. If you really care about Dash adoption then you should make this open sourced and available to your competitors. Does not look like that is the case here :/

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rgenito (proposal owner)1 point,10 months ago

I care about adoption for Dash, and so do the many, many people that have reached out to me. However, the company does not care about integrating another coin when it's funds are tied up in projects that will boost our volume and bottom line. With Dash's daily volume already barely 0.5% daily that of bitcoin, it's not a sale. That's just how it is... sorry :\ This can be a valuable stepped stone for Dash, a valuable relationship with Genitrust (Wall of Coins) and the Dash ecosystem, and this can spark interested in other companies the same size as Genitrust or smaller! Genitrust is a company of 16 people, and the Wall of Coins service offers a service that NO OTHER company in crypto offers. Glidera.io is the only company that kind of offers what we do (the on-ramp/off-ramp API), but Wall of Coins bas doing what Glidera's doing (and better) more than twice as long as they have...

These are valuable things to consider.

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whalehunter1 point,10 months ago

I'm voting NO for that ... i don't see in your proposal where the source code and so on we pay for will be open sourced !

I believe that should not be, if we as blockchain pay for something, we need to get all rights on what the blockchain payed for.

It's the same like the dashwhale proposale at the beginning which was downvoted because of this. - You are going to create a business which produces income, but you want the blockchain to fund 1/2 of the initial costs, and the blockchain gets nothing from that income ... thats not fair!

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rgenito (proposal owner)1 point,10 months ago

I understand where you're coming from. Keep in mind that we already have a business--Wall of Coins has been servicing for over 2 years. Dash would become part of our business and part of our future tech timelines and current business relationships.

The blockchain doesn't get anything from ANY proposals anyways. Does it? Those who benefit are the Dash ecosystem participants themselves, and that is exactly what Wall of Coins was designed to do: boost the ecosystem. No other company is doing this single-handedly.

Thoughts to consider!

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unchained0 points,10 months ago

how do u secure yourself against fraud when accepting paypal? Alot of other vendors would have accepted paypal for crypto if it werent a very high risk proposition...

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rgenito (proposal owner)1 point,10 months ago

btw, i really wish i could've given you a better answer earlier in a the short time. We have specific policies in place for paypal, and we have certain things our paypal sellers will need to do with their paypal account in order to "harden" it for fraud security. a picture would be worth 1000 words on this one, but let me know if you have any other questions! Thank you for asking :)

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rgenito (proposal owner)1 point,10 months ago

The short answer: it's complex, and there's a reason why not everyone is doing it. You'll see once we are doing this. We work very different than any other services, so there is nothing I can compare this to.

We have a ton of experience with this.

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unchained0 points,10 months ago

if its complex and u cant show us until we pay for it to see it. Why dont u pay for it yourself up front as part of your business cost? I mean, unless we get a percentage of the revenue back we are basically just funding your business venture putting up all the risk capital and getting none of the reward aside from adoption, which other entrepreneurs will gladly do for free if they find profit from it...

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greensheep1 point,10 months ago

I am not sure what the USP of WoC is. It is a fiat to (currently bit)coin exchange service. It claims to be much easier than the other services. Yet, the trading volume seems to be rather low (source: https://data.bitcoinity.org/markets/exchanges/USD/30d#volume_desc) compared to other exchanges. It seems the users pay the simplicity with higher fees.

WoC has an API (https://wallofcoins.com/en/developer-api). But does it get used?

Can you answer the following questions:
- What are the number of transactions and their volume processed daily for BTC. What has the month-to-month growth been recently?
- How many users does your API have? Can you name some integrations?

So far, I am not convinced this will boost DASH adoption. Also, if WoC is convinced that adding DASH will lead to high usage of their service they would not need budget money for the integration -- the integration would finance itself through the fees.

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rgenito (proposal owner)2 points,10 months ago

Thank you for asking! You ask a lot of great questions and you have valuable considerations. I really appreciate that. Some items are less important than they are perceived, but that's fine as I will mention those here. Here are answers to your questions and things to consider...

- Bitcoinity does NOT track all of our global exchanges; Bitcoinity has bugs that inhibits it from capturing all of our volume; Bitcoinity only captures 4 of the countries we support. So basically, you're better off looking directly at our API.
- The great majority of our transactions are small-volume transactions. That's for a few reasons: 1) our platform is not attractive to fraudsters, and 2) our platform will not work with wire transfers until the near future.
- WallofCoins.com API (and our Widget) is currently in use by Backpage.com, Post Share bitcoin wallet, and many others. We've had a number of key integrators join us recently.
- Bitcoin volume--in no way or form--is an accurate way to measure how this will impact Dash. This is especially true because we are not a stagnant company: we have great innovations in development that will be announced as they are released.
- Daily volume on Wall of Coins has grown to $20,000 to $30,000+. This is normalized to USD value regardless of the fiat buyers use with our platform. Likewise, Bitcoin volume depends on the Bitcoin price.

- We've seen 260% month-to-month average over 6 months.
- Our growth is now ~100 users per day. The documents that are linked mention 50-100 new users per day. If you haven't already, read those links... there's a TON of valuable information in there.

Furthermore, Wall of Coins / Genitrust is NOT convinced that adding DASH will lead to high usage of our services. It is literally just myself, as Dash is one of the very few cryptocurrencies I care about, and inspiration from people of the Dash community that have urged me to have Wall of Coins integrate Dash. Dash is still relatively young, and in situations like this it is indeed DASH's volume that gives off the perceived demand, which is at best 0.5%-1% Bitcoin volume. There are KYC/AML issues unique to DASH still, and it doesn't help today that this is currently being fleshed out by Dash.org for the future.

And of course this will boost DASH adoption. No matter who is buying DASH today, they must jump through the Bitcoin loop. How are you going to get people with money to invest in DASH when they can just stop at Bitcoin? How are you going to get people to use DASH (whether they realize they're using DASH or not) when they have to learn how to use multiple services just to do so? Wall of Coins is the only service that can offer the Dash ecosystem such simplicity, and Wall of Coins is the ONLY on-ramp service available today that will help normal people get into cryptocurrency.

Furthermore, Genitrust and Wall of Coins are well-respected in the Bitcoin space, known by many industry leaders. Our formal involvement with Dash will spark and influence their curiosity about adoption Dash for their own services.

Is that not highly valuable for the DASH ecosystem, DASH investors, MNOs, etc? I believe the time is perfect for Dash and Wall of Coins.

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Dworf3 points,10 months ago

As I understand WoC it is a centralized service which currently is just available in the US, right? Bitsquare has added numerous cryptocurrencies for free, has worldwide unlimited access and works directly on the blockchain. And there are other opportunities eg. Shapeshift

I found this article on WoC: http://bitcoinist.net/wall-of-coins-review-good-bitcoin-beginners-so-so-veterans/

- WOC is available in over 10 different countries.
- WOC becomes more decentral as time goes on. You cannot YET have a 100% decentralized service that is easy for everyone to use. Your sights should not be so short on WOC.
- When people suddenly needed to send cash to services like backpage.com, bitsquare was no help. That's because WOC focuses on adoption, and this is what WoC accomplishes. WOC will bring more value to DASH than bitsquare in the short term and long term. Imagine if DASH with Instant Send were on WOC...the crowd of people who need to use remote cash (backpage.com, wikileaks.org, etc) will instantly begin using DASH via the WOC platform--whether they realize they're using DASH or not.

Answers:

- "Why in this case shall it cost 2000 Đ ?" This information is in the proposal: Genitrust, Inc has agreed to start the project if at least $20k is funded. I represent Genitrust as the CEO, and I bring this information to you. This is a HUGE project, as WOC is an adoption platform. I don't expect everyone to understand this, but there's something valuable for the DASH community here that you're going ot want to spend some time focusing on. There is a summary breakdown in the proposal for finances spent. Here's a direct link of the MAXIMUM projected costs and man hours: https://www.evernote.com/shard/s158/sh/ff503bf1-c582-4b06-946f-1e76ec67a444/d73afc416a3164bf309ecda4a6ff868e

- Is WoC legalized? of course.

- Is there a user statistic available? Yes, it is also linked in the proposal.

And finally, thank you for asking Dworf. I hope more people are inspired to read the links....there's important information there.

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Dworf1 point,10 months ago

there are many markets now: https://cointelegraph.com/news/9-ways-to-buy-bitcoin-without-a-bank-account

but I see the opportunity for DASH.

for clarification - you request 2000 Đ ($23,000) one time, right? The proposal suggests that more funding is required.

>> can you give a statement to this:
http://news.dinbits.com/2016/07/scam-alert-shady-websites-targeting.html
("play it safe" ff.)

>> I still do not find the user statistic

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rgenito (proposal owner)1 point,10 months ago

Statement: what's up with the Scam Alert article? Wall of Coins isn't mentioned anywhere, except a comment from a shill promoting another service.

For clarification, the 2000 DASH request is to get development of this project started, exactly as stated in this proposal. Integrating DASH and WOC isn't a tiny job. If you haven't already, check out the screen shot of the document that estimates the maximum amount of funds necessary for this project to be completed and into production.

Having met John from WoC in person, and speaking with him at length, I am completely sold on the WoC fiat <--> crypto gateway solution. Further, it is FAR FAR less expensive than the questionable ATM proposal currently in the works, and requires no 'Compliance' proposal either, which is also questionable and now also approved. We need to get fiat <--> crypto gateway solutions in place, and WoC already exists, and is used a lot. There are no 'unknowns' that could get in the way. It is just a matter of effort. No expensive lawyers. No expensive hardware. It just works.

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rgenito (proposal owner)3 points,10 months ago

Not to mention that Wall of Coins has already handled the legal on this long ago.........

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thedesertlynx1 point,10 months ago

Yes indeed. It would be a shame if the ATM project got approved and this one didn't.

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rgenito (proposal owner)2 points,10 months ago

Will the owner of 26 masternodes (down vote) kindly share some words on this proposal? :)

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thedesertlynx1 point,10 months ago

Seconded. Voting gives a powerful market signal, but sometimes a "no" needs a "why" in order to be instructive.

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kot2 points,10 months ago

Hey Robert,
In the proposal, you wrote:
"Genitrust is asking for 2000 DASH toget this project started: an OTC exchange for Dash[...]"
What exactly does it mean? What is going to be delivered within the initial funding of 2000 DASH - the entire solution or just a part of it?

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rgenito (proposal owner)2 points,10 months ago

Thank you for asking! The 2000 DASH is part of it to get the project started. Since this is also a proposal mixing with a crowd fund, future proposals will be based on any foreseen amounts remaining that need to be requested (via proposal) to complete the project. Click the "Show full description" for the full text--the last paragraph makes a clearer statement on this.

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DashRiprock1 point,10 months ago

I like this idea. It would be a good idea for you to contact Amanda B Johnson and see if she will interview you about this proposal on Dash Detailed. You can also post a video on Youtube explaining the benefits of this proposal and place a link to it here on Dash Central. Either way a video will have a much greater positive impact than just posting a few comments about it here.

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rgenito (proposal owner)2 points,10 months ago

That's true! I'll scrap up as much extra time as I can to make a video of myself reading the proposal....all of the info is in there my friend :) And THANK YOU for this information... I'll contact Amanda B Johnson now. Would you consider donating to this project?

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DashRiprock-3 points,10 months ago

People are much more likely to watch a video than read your long boring proposal. A lot of people like Amanda and would learn about your proposal who otherwise would not spend the time reading your boring proposal. People feel more comfortable voting yes when they can see and you and hear your voice. I have seen other proposal owners do this and get their proposals passed when they were struggling. On second thought you are right. You are a very rude person and it is better if people don't see what you are really like. I made the mistake of up voting this proposal but I will correct that error immediately. Yes, stay away from the videos just imagine how many people you would anger if you did one you conceited jackass.

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DashRiprock2 points,10 months ago

Disregard this post since it was a misunderstanding on my part.

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rgenito (proposal owner)3 points,10 months ago

Oh, I'm not a rude person. But I don't want to come off as rude in my writing :( I'll see to it to post a video so it can be more clear. Could you paste the sentence that came off as rude to help me understand where you're coming from?

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DashRiprock1 point,10 months ago

It sounded like he is being very sarcastic and mocking my idea. If I am wrong I apologize.

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rgenito (proposal owner)1 point,10 months ago

Yea, sarcastic people tend to have a pretty warped view of the sincerity of others. It's frustrating at times, but I do understand. Thanks for clarifying that, and I'm glad you know that I meant this sincerely.

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thedesertlynx1 point,10 months ago

Dude, what the hell? I think something must have been lost in translation, I can't see anything rude or negative in his comment.

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DashRiprock0 points,10 months ago

I sounds to me like he is being very sarcastic. If I am wrong I will delete my comment.

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thedesertlynx1 point,10 months ago

Glad to see this come around again, with some new benefits. Can you imagine being able to be paid in Dash via PayPal? Literally anyone can easily take, or receive, Dash that way. Please vote for this, it would take Dash to the stratosphere.

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rgenito (proposal owner)2 points,10 months ago

Much appreciated!! I truly, truly wish I could share other HUGE benefits that the Dash community will receive with Wall of Coins core platform developments.... those won't be announced until they're almost ready!

The Dash ecosystem will benefit with all of the future updates for Wall of Coins--many updates are significant for this industry, and they will undoubtedly continue to influence the industry.