Hey guy I was just thinking about BJJ for self defense. I know its a great style but the problem is that once the teeth become a factor a large percentage of their moves go out the window. what subs do you guys know of that would be effective on the street.

the only ones I can think of right off the top of my head.

Knee bar
heel hook
rear naked choke.
maybe kamura depending on the clothes you wearing.
alligator choke (from guard your right leg across his left ear and back of head his right arm in his neck and press head down.)

what can you think of?

shatterproof

10-29-2009 12:06 PM

flying armbar... let me know how that works out. hehe

best way to defend yourself on the street, traing or not? Being mentally strong, knowing you've already won and... Walking in the other direction.

BlacklistShaun

10-29-2009 12:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by americanfighter
(Post 1030943)

Hey guy I was just thinking about BJJ for self defense. I know its a great style but the problem is that once the teeth become a factor a large percentage of their moves go out the window. what subs do you guys know of that would be effective on the street.

the only ones I can think of right off the top of my head.

Knee bar
heel hook
rear naked choke.
maybe kamura depending on the clothes you wearing.
alligator choke (from guard your right leg across his left ear and back of head his right arm in his neck and press head down.)

what can you think of?

BJJ is plenty effective on the street if you actually know what you are doing. I think that's the main factor in using it for self defense. It's the same with any martial art though, if you don't know what you are doing it wouldn't be all that effective.

I can think of plenty of subs that would be effective on the street....

Those are just a few different moves I can think of right off the top of my head that would be effective on the street. Bjj is all about position and if you can position yourself right for all these subs it's going to be impossible for some newb that knows no better to stop you from tearing him apart.

As far as your comment about the teeth coming into play and becoming a factor...go ahead and let me catch you in an armbar...you bite and I torque on that arm and let's see who ends up on the worse end of that exchange. Unless you've got rabies I'm gonna go home with a small bite mark (as much as you can bite before you beging screaming in pain from having your arm snapped) while you are going to the hospital to have your arm put back together. Just about any arm lock that might put you close enough to get bit is going to inflict far more damage than a bite ever could.

americanfighter

10-29-2009 12:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlacklistShaun
(Post 1030955)

BJJ is plenty effective on the street if you actually know what you are doing. I think that's the main factor in using it for self defense. It's the same with any martial art though, if you don't know what you are doing it wouldn't be all that effective.

I can think of plenty of subs that would be effective on the street....

Those are just a few different moves I can think of right off the top of my head that would be effective on the street. Bjj is all about position and if you can position yourself right for all these subs it's going to be impossible for some newb that knows no better to stop you from tearing him apart.

As far as your comment about the teeth coming into play and becoming a factor...go ahead and let me catch you in an armbar...you bite and I torque on that arm and let's see who ends up on the worse end of that exchange. Unless you've got rabies I'm gonna go home with a small bite mark (as much as you can bite before you beging screaming in pain from having your arm snapped) while you are going to the hospital to have your arm put back together. Just about any arm lock that might put you close enough to get bit is going to inflict far more damage than a bite ever could.

yha but as i said in my origonal post when someone can bite you losts of hose go out the window. arm bar bit the leg triangle bite the leg looking for one that keeps your body far enough away from the guys teeth so he cant bite you. thats the problem

BlacklistShaun

10-29-2009 12:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by americanfighter
(Post 1030972)

yha but as i said in my origonal post when someone can bite you losts of hose go out the window. arm bar bit the leg triangle bite the leg looking for one that keeps your body far enough away from the guys teeth so he cant bite you. thats the problem

I really dont understand your imposition unless you are fighting someone who has rabies??

Let someone bite you...they won't be doing it for long when you snap their arm. I promise you the last thing on their mind will be biting you.

Let me clarify in what I mean. If I get in a street fight I will go for an armbar (just for example). I'm not really looking to break the other guys arm per say, but rather make him give up. If he does bite me, he's just made up my mind and I'm going to break his arm and he's going to be in a much worse situation than me. I mean realisticly someone can bite you standing up...just ask Evander Hollyfield.

americanfighter

10-29-2009 12:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlacklistShaun
(Post 1030978)

I really dont understand your imposition unless you are fighting someone who has rabies??

Let someone bite you...they won't be doing it for long when you snap their arm. I promise you the last thing on their mind will be biting you.

yha you may be right and if its a average guy then ya you could snap it pretty quickly but I am worried about the big muscle guys getting time to think .

I am going to start bjj as soon as I can. I have trained in Ba Gua for a while and loved it but I have developed enough power in my palm heel strikes and knees I'm kinda afraid to use them on an average guy.

BlacklistShaun

10-29-2009 12:54 PM

To clarify a little more on what "I would do". Let me give you a few examples hypothetically speaking in a "street fight" situation.

I go for armbar and secure it. He bites me. I break his arm. He most likely isn't thinking about biting me anymore. If he continues to bite me I break his wrist. If he's still biting me I snap his forearm. I promise you he's not biting me anymore.

I go for Kimura or key lock. He bites me. I rip his shoulder clean out of socket. if he continues to bite me I switch to straight arm lock and break his arm. If he continues to bite I break his wrist. If he continues to bite I switch to arm triangle and choke him unconcious.

Not that it matters anyhow because the first bone you break they are done, they won't continue to bite, if they do however have no pain receptors in their brain and aren't effected by having their limbs broken then continue to break stuff until they give up. I would break something and say "you done yet or you want me to break more?" and continue doing this until they removed their teeth from my body.

BlacklistShaun

10-29-2009 12:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by americanfighter
(Post 1030983)

yha you may be right and if its a average guy then ya you could snap it pretty quickly but I am worried about the big muscle guys getting time to think .

I am going to start bjj as soon as I can. I have trained in Ba Gua for a while and loved it but I have developed enough power in my palm heel strikes and knees I'm kinda afraid to use them on an average guy.

For about the last month I have been giving private lessons to a body builder. He is MUCH stronger than I...we aren't even in the same league. When I get an armbar on him I don't have a problem extending it and finishing it. Once it's extended it takes a fraction of a second to snap it.

Another thing you have to remember about BJJ is it's all about position. If you are in a postion to get a sub, that doesn't mean you have to go for a sub. Most positions of dominance in BJJ are on top, which gives you the option to bring the rain on their ass. Let's be realistic here, who's gonna bite you when they are getting their face pounded in? Who's gonna bite you when they just got their arm snapped? Very slim chance they'll continue to bite you.

americanfighter

10-29-2009 12:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlacklistShaun
(Post 1030985)

To clarify a little more on what "I would do". Let me give you a few examples hypothetically speaking in a "street fight" situation.

I go for armbar and secure it. He bites me. I break his arm. He most likely isn't thinking about biting me anymore. If he continues to bite me I break his wrist. If he's still biting me I snap his forearm. I promise you he's not biting me anymore.

I go for Kimura or key lock. He bites me. I rip his shoulder clean out of socket. if he continues to bite me I switch to straight arm lock and break his arm. If he continues to bite I break his wrist. If he continues to bite I switch to arm triangle and choke him unconcious.

Not that it matters anyhow because the first bone you break they are done, they won't continue to bite, if they do however have no pain receptors in their brain and aren't effected by having their limbs broken then continue to break stuff until they give up. I would break something and say "you done yet or you want me to break more?" and continue doing this until they removed their teeth from my body.

guess your right.

BlacklistShaun

10-29-2009 01:31 PM

It's not really about being wrong or right to me. It's about helping people to better understand BJJ and grappling arts. I can completely understand where you are coming from because I was once in the same situation.

BJJ is a really odd art because it's really hard to understand how effective it is against someone who doesn't know it until you actually try it with someone who's pretty good at it. I would suggest finding a legit gym and go in there and roll with a good mid level/high level blue at least and you will see that BJJ is pretty darn effective and gives you the ability to toss people around and manipulate their base to gain dominant positions, secure submission holds, and beat them to death.

I see it all the time though, people come in and say "it doesn't look that hard" until they get on the mat the first time...then the immediate response is "this shit is hard!!". Just like that body builder I've been giving lessons too. He came in the first time and had it in his mind that I couldn't do anything to him because he was so much bigger and stronger than me that he would simply outpower me. He got a rude awakening and got tapped about 20-30 times in just a few minutes. He was so impressed at how effective it was that he signed up for private lessons two times a week for about a month now.