Perhaps you can explain why a net of several hundred thousand US-born households abandoned Los Angeles - and California overall - in the 2000's, and likewise, several hundred thousand US-born households abandoned California in the 1990's and, importantly, what the 1950's have to do with it?

Um let's see, because California is an expensive state to live in, especially the Bay Area and L.A region. People are moving out of California because they're looking for more affordable housing, not because they want to segregate themselves from the scary poor people. I'm not sure what you were trying to prove with that statement.

Well you mentioned middle class flight to the suburbs, and I explained that it was a phenomenon that began for the most part in the 1950s, and that the difficult racial climate and social policies had a lot to do with it.

That may be true, given that no country in Europe comes close to being as racially & ethnically diverse, with the numbers & percentages of different group, as say US.

But at least there seems to much more of a cultural clash & segregation in Europe, between the Muslim & non-Muslim population developing than anything that exists in the US between Americans of Euro, Afro-, Latino, Asian, or for that matter, Muslim, background.

I understand that places like Bradford in northern England, with a very large percentage of Pakistani & Bengladeshis, is quite segregated & polarized.

In the US, the Pakistani & Bengladeshi populations as well as the Indians are much more integrated into the mainstream population.

The population is about 150 000. In recent year Petržalka became one of the most popular place to live in Bratislava, because of good connection to center and many facilities like schools, hospitals etc.

I understand that places like Bradford in northern England, with a very large percentage of Pakistani & Bengladeshis, is quite segregated & polarized.

In the US, the Pakistani & Bengladeshi populations as well as the Indians are much more integrated into the mainstream population.

This could be because when they first arrived in the UK hundreds of years ago it would of been scary and different so they congregated in certain areas
'safety in numbers' and it's just stayed like that and with the muslims as well it's probably familiarity and 'safety in numbers'.

The population is about 150 000. In recent year Petržalka became one of the most popular place to live in Bratislava, because of good connection to center and many facilities like schools, hospitals etc.

Is that a mall on the left foreground? Anyway, the housing blocks shown here are much better than the ones they shown on the movie Eurotrip

Is that a mall on the left foreground? Anyway, the housing blocks shown here are much better than the ones they shown on the movie Eurotrip

Actually this terrible parking area in best location has vanished by now and has been replaced by a quite nice tower. Also other things have changed. The blocks are one after another being renovated it seems, that includes often painting them in various fresh colours.

The desire to isolate their children from the influences of the "street" (read: kids from poor families) played a key role in the US middle class flight to suburbia. Germany does a more politically correct job at it: it segregates children into gymnasiums, real schools and haupt-schools without the need for the parents to move. This also significantly reduces ethnic tensions. "In fact, fewer than 10% of all Turkish students make it to the end of Gymnasium.. one study indicated that the majority of Turkish children continue to be sent to Hauptschule" (Muslims of Metropolis By Kavitha Rajagopalan).

In order to obtain the same effect in the US, a middle class family would have to move to the suburbs: there are no different-level schools in the US. And that is precisely what happened.

"In an elementary school in Berlin Neukölln 85% of the children are of non-German origin" - yeah, right. No 'white flight' and ethnic segregation in Germany, my furry behind.

Really? Sixteen million dollars? If that figure is correct, $16 million a year would get you um.. around 100 basic housing units in a city of close to 600,000 people? Yeah, that's the way to be politically correct. Build a handful of apartments each year in one of the most unaffordable cities in America and trumpet it nationwide.

Well I agree with what you say about the school system , that children in Germany are segregated not just by income but also by ethnicity, though one has to say that you can't just blame the Germans for it , but you also have to look at Turks in Germany, where the mentality is often-not always, not even in most cases, but too often-that there's less willingness to get an education than in many German or other European families.

What i disagree is that this creates less ethnic tensions than the U.S system does, since persons wouldn't have to move (though still many do, but this has mostly other reasons than white flight in Germany), it would create more ethnic tensions in the cities, which it does, just go to any larger German city after 10 PM, and you'll find Turkish Youths hanging out on the streets and pretending to be "Gangstas", just like their Afro-American counterparts, which certainly isn't what most Germans would consider pleasant (I'm not saying I'm like them or that I'm dissatisfied with the situation in German cities, I'm just saying it's a fact), and which creates ethnic tensions, esp. between Turkish/Muslim Youths (not all or even most o them, but there're still enough who behave in this way to create tensions in the population) and German and other European Youths.

That may be true, given that no country in Europe comes close to being as racially & ethnically diverse, with the numbers & percentages of different group, as say US.

But at least there seems to much more of a cultural clash & segregation in Europe, between the Muslim & non-Muslim population developing than anything that exists in the US between Americans of Euro, Afro-, Latino, Asian, or for that matter, Muslim, background.

I understand that places like Bradford in northern England, with a very large percentage of Pakistani & Bengladeshis, is quite segregated & polarized.

In the US, the Pakistani & Bengladeshi populations as well as the Indians are much more integrated into the mainstream population.

Doesn't the UK and France have huge racial and ethnic diversity in their major cities, especially in the London and Paris metro areas? The only group that very noticeably falls way behind in the UK and France are Latinamericans, as a general ethnic or ethno-linguistic group.

As a side note, it clearly looks like Spain has made up in Latinamerican immigration where the UK and France have "lacked", where many Cubans, Dominicans, Ecuadorians, Argentines (which may not be obvious to the eye due to their more-commonly-occuring European physical features and heritage), Peruvians, Columbians, Brazilians (despite their Portuguese language), and Bolivians have emigrated. Indeed, none of those have formed the huge community that Mexicans have formed in the US, or like the big Cuban community of South Florida.

Anyway, you may have been too quick in stating your first paragraph. I would be more willing to believe it if you removed the London and Paris metro areas from Europe. Otherwise I agree with your second paragraph, although not so much on the segregation part. I think there is similar levels of segregation in the US except that no ethnic or immigrant group in the US has ever expressed a hate for the US the way I have seen it in the UK or France. Otherwise, some Latinos in the US, particularly newcommers, often stick to themselves and segregate themselves by only speaking Spanish at times. They form identity groups which further isolates them. The US has Spanish-speaking (for Spanish, press 2) facilitations which further isolates them as a group. This is unheard of in the UK or France (exceptions do occur like with some helplines, maternal assistance associations, etc. where there is a non-profit desire to help) but not for a company offering service in Arabic, for example, the way the US does by offering Spanish-speakers). That just one example. What about the apparent lack of mixing among Blacks and non-Blacks (especially Whites) in the US, as much the living like recreational space? Just how much more is the EU segregated than the US?

Doesn't the UK and France have huge racial and ethnic diversity in their major cities, especially in the London and Paris metro areas? The only group that very noticeably falls way behind in the UK and France are Latinamericans, as a general ethnic or ethno-linguistic group.

As a side note, it clearly looks like Spain has made up in Latinamerican immigration where the UK and France have "lacked", where many Cubans, Dominicans, Ecuadorians, Argentines (which may not be obvious to the eye due to their more-commonly-occuring European physical features and heritage), Peruvians, Columbians, Brazilians (despite their Portuguese language), and Bolivians have emigrated. Indeed, none of those have formed the huge community that Mexicans have formed in the US, or like the big Cuban community of South Florida.

Anyway, you may have been too quick in stating your first paragraph. I would be more willing to believe it if you removed the London and Paris metro areas from Europe. Otherwise I agree with your second paragraph, although not so much on the segregation part. I think there is similar levels of segregation in the US except that no ethnic or immigrant group in the US has ever expressed a hate for the US the way I have seen it in the UK or France. Otherwise, some Latinos in the US, particularly newcommers, often stick to themselves and segregate themselves by only speaking Spanish at times. They form identity groups which further isolates them. The US has Spanish-speaking (for Spanish, press 2) facilitations which further isolates them as a group. This is unheard of in the UK or France (exceptions do occur like with some helplines, maternal assistance associations, etc. where there is a non-profit desire to help) but not for a company offering service in Arabic, for example, the way the US does by offering Spanish-speakers). That just one example. What about the apparent lack of mixing among Blacks and non-Blacks (especially Whites) in the US, as much the living like recreational space? Just how much more is the EU segregated than the US?

My point is, it really depends what you consider segregation.

I agree 100%, racial segregation in the US especially between blacks & whites is way too high. That's a legacy of the period up thru the 1950s/60s when there was official racial segregation, most extensive in the southern states, but also practiced to some degree in other areas.

There's also substantial but less segregation between other US groups. For example, "Latinos/Hispanics" were first were first lumped together under a cultural "umbrella" as there numbers started to reach a critical mass in the 1970s. So too were various Asian groups. So that classification creates a degree of segregation.

For better or worse, many ethnic/racial minorities in the US feel that a degree of segregation provides strength in numbers & a basis for gaining political, economic, & cultural inclusion.

I didn't mean to overlook Spain, yes, Madrid, Barcelona & other Spanish cities have attracted & absorbed large numbers of immigrants, especially from Latin America, during the last few decades. That makes a lot of sense given the cultural & linguistic ties between Spain & Latin America. Spain seems to have done a much better job of mainstreaming these immigrants than most other countries.

I understand quite a few of the Latinos have left Spain since the economic crash, as have some of the mostly undocumented Latinos who were working in the US.

In Paris, most of the racial & ethnic minorities are segregated in the suburban projects a long way from the downtowns. In London, most of the minorities live in the inner city ghettos, albeit not as big or segregated ones as in the US. The level of ghettoization is also high in the Netherlands, Germany, Scandinavia, etc. In France, there's still a debate about starting the kind of affirmative action programs that were started in the US 40 years ago. Cities in the UK, France, & other countries are just beginning to elect blacks, Arabs, Asians, etc as mayors & other key elective positions.

By no means do I mean to defend US cities, they suffer many shortcomings. The relative paucity of racial diversity in Europe has no doubt contributed to retaining more of a social saftey net of the kind which is now virtually non-existent in the US. When people as in Europe feel that social programs benefit their "own", they tend to support them. When they, as in the US, feel that social programs help the "others", they are much less inclined to support them.

You can see the big differeance between US & European cities when you compare the level of support for public education, transit, & other services & programs, including public housing.

I don't know where you get the impression European minorities are so marginalised, though Im sure the media reports on race riots or ethnic tensions in various areas is understandable. However you do get race riots and hate crimes in almost every country, US included. The rise of far right parties in the European elections recently, thanx to the economic depression doesnt help either.

The levels of segregation in the US are way higher than in Europe. According to the last census segregation was on the level of the 1960s, and getting worse, and in several major cities surpassing those in Apartheid era South Africa. -This of course doesn't mean that everyone hates each other, just that communities have the option to congregate, and readily do so on a multicultural model.

This is unheard of in Europe (France aside). Bear in mind entire countries like Sweden are 15% foreign born, Switzerland 20%, cities like Stockholm 20%, Paris 25%, London 40%, Amsterdam 45%, Brussels 47%, Rotterdam 50%, whilst 60% of children in German cities now have at least one foreign born parent, and White British children are outnumbered 2 to 1 in their London schools. The rates of mixed marriages are also far higher in Europe than US, despite US having centuries of history of multiculturalism.

Case example, London 40% foreign born, 50% non English ancestry in total, from 85 communities speaking 340 languages - and rising at rates approaching NYC in its turn of the century immigration heyday, and set to surpass it. However, despite the numbers, there isn't a single ethnic ghetto, the highest percentage being only 63% Pakistani in the ward of Central Slough. The fastest growing ethnic group is 'mixed race'. Compare this with US cities like NYC where every neighbourhood is 85%-98% of a single race, and sharply delineated by specific streets, where you can cross from say a 95% White neighbourhood into an 88% Hispanic neighbourhood. (As I mentioned before this doesnt mean NYC is racist, but it is segregated residentially).

Londons largest ethnic minorities, accounting for millions of people- it may look like people are congregating but check out the percentages:

(Bear in mind many of these communities are split into their own disparate groups, eg the Africans and Indians)

Darkest areas account for 58.2% at the highest

Darkest areas account for 35.7% at the highest

Darkest areas account for 22.9% at the highest

Darkest areas account for 5.35% at the highest. (The Chinese are the most evenly spread out of London's major minorities).

Darkest areas account for 54.2% at the highest

Darkest areas account for 13.3% at the highest

Darkest areas account for 19% at the highest

Of course this doesn't mean there isn't any racism whatsoever, but there does seem to be far less of an obsession with specific race - rather tensions revolve around country of birth and ongoing immigration. Read: newly arrived, foreign-born Poles will often get worse regard from anyone racist than say a native born of Jamaican ancestry, who are accepted as native (some far right parties in Europe even have non White members and councillors such as UK Independence Party, the BNP, and National Front de France,- provided they are born in the country but hate immigration).

Neither does economics respond on racial lines - different ethnicities within the races do better than others, many falling behind, many more outperforming the natives. For example the Somalian community in London will be most likely to claim benefits, whilst the West Africans outperform all other children in education, and are the most likely to go on to university and get a high paid job. Caribbean males earn significantly less than their White counterparts, whilst Caribbean women earn far higher (they are actually the second highest position, behind South Asian males, and earning more than White males at third). Indians form the top rung of the economic ladder, Bangladeshis near the bottom. Likewise the Brazilians are high performers, the Portuguese low.

In short ethnic division in US stems from the historical hangover, which Europe has had far less to deal with such as slavery, enforced segregation, the civil rights movement, internment, rail-road building etc. However any intercommunal tension in the EU arises from contemporary, ongoing immigration, rather than long settled non-White natives, with 2 million new arrivals a year compared to 1.5 million in the US (read: its not so much racial tension as new-immigrant tension, regardless of the race, especially since many East Europeans form part of that wave).

Oh yep, the demographics of Pakistanis in Bradford completely broke the norm for minorities in Britain, South Asians included. Bear in mind South Asians are the highest earning demographic (even more so than East Asians). Intermarriage accounts for 1/3 of all South Asian marriages (over half for Blacks and East Asians).

In those areas, at that time, minorities were segregated residentially, educationally and economically to levels unheard of in the country - hence why it was such an uproar the race riots of 2001 were ever allowed to happen in this day and age. It had been the first major such conflict in 25 years and alot has been done to those councils since then to undo the mistakes of the past.

NB also, there are very large numbers of Latin Americans now in London at least. Its one of the country's biggest waves of immigration (the others being the postwar ex-Empire wave, the EU wave, and the latest African wave), and one totally unexpected. There are now thousands of Brazilians, Colombians, Chileans and Argentines mostly arriving since 2002. Brazilians alone now account for about 100,000 in London, 300,000 for the country.