scrambler wrote:Thanks, when the 3rd quarter ends is when you go for two with a 5 point lead. You can see the silly game never ending however, why not with 2 minutes left in the 3rd go for two?? Can't you see the game? You muddle through the 4th quarter, you missed the two and with 3:24 left the opposing team gets a field goal and cuts it to 15-13. Then you get to the last play of the game for another field goal attempt. Can you not see the legitimate argument for kicking the extra point in that scenario??

1. No2. Every bad scenario that comes from this, only comes from this if you miss the 2 point conversion. How about this, make the conversion? You make the conversion and force the opponent to score a TD. But we have no faith in our team to convert. Which is the real problem. When you suck, you need to take chances. They suck. They need to take chances.

justmebd wrote:This isn't an egregious decision because it came back to haunt the Browns; it's a critical failure because Shurmur chose the option that added virtually nothing to his team's chances of winning.2 Kicking the extra point gave the Browns a 16-10 lead with 14 minutes to go; the only advantage it gave them was having the ability to tie if Philadelphia kicked two field goals. That's far less likely to occur than the Eagles scoring one touchdown. The value added by a successful two-point conversion is significantly greater, more than enough to justify the risk of going for two. The footballcommentary.com two-point chart suggests that the Browns should have gone for two unless their chances of converting were below 24 percent, a conversion rate that even the league's worst rushing attack would find attainable.

First it's from Grantland, so take it with a grain of salt. I forgot how many former NFL HCs they have on staff, 3 or zero?

But what they ignore in their arrogant analysis is that the Eagles had only scored 1 TD all day up to that point. The Eagles WERE moving the ball virtually at will all day and most likely would have had the opportunity for a couple of FGs. Not to say they couldn't have scored a couple of TDs either. But real time context of the game at hand does play into HCing mindsets on Sunday afternoon.

I'll give credit to the Browns D for playing tough in many aspects, but they were more opportunistic than they were a dominating steel curtain. Ultimately there was little doubt the Eagles would be in position to tie or win the game (in most fans minds) regardless of "the decision", but there's also no reason why we shouldn't have been able to muster up 1 more FG to make it all moot and secure a win.

I think a more viable question today is, when is the magical barrier in which Shurmur considers benching Weeden in place of Colt? Week 5 if we're 0-4 and Weeden has looked absolutely terrible? Week 5 if we're 1-3 and Weeden has looked absolutely terrible? Week 7 if we'ere 3-3 and Weeden has looked absolutely terrible? Week 9 if we're 3-6 and Weeden has looked decent and competent?

Last edited by FUDU on Tue Sep 11, 2012 8:19 am, edited 1 time in total.

Criminals in this town used to believe in things...honor, respect."I heard your dog is sick, so bought you this shovel"

scrambler wrote:justmebd...what I'm saying is isn't it always more likely to score 1 touchdown than two field goals?? Or is there a point in the game where you reach that point. Obviously with 14 minutes left this is the case you state. Is it the case with 20 minutes left?? with 24 minutes left?? AT the start of the game with 60 minutes left is it more likely for a team to score 1 touchdown or kick two field goals??

20 minutes left? 24 minutes left?

My answer to that is, who cares? A)There were 14 minutes left B)No one cares about hypotheticals. He blew it plain and simple. Convert the 2pt., and who knows what woulda happened. We prolly woulda won in all honesty.

FUDU wrote:First it's from Grantland, so take it with a grain of salt. I forgot how many former NFL HCs they have on staff, 3 or zero?

But what they ignore in their arrogant analysis is that the Eagles had only scored 1 TD all day up to that point.

Stupid.

How many FGs had they scored up to that point?

How about like Pup said, you actually make it and then, regardless, when you do end up getting the ball back your QB, OL and RB eat clock and play keep away?

Nah... let's make excuses and rationalize why Pat wasn't completely wrong. TD puts you up 5 in the 4th quarter you go for two. Unless you're an idiot.

Excellent that he went for one and got it though. Glad they executed on that PAT after watching them fuck those up last season.

Progress.

It was consistent with the majority of other HCs decisions on going for 2.

Eat the clock, with the QB and RB we had playing yesterday? Wait we are talking about the Browns game right?

It's still moot, b/c even if we did go for 2, and make it, so what we'd be 1-0 instead of 0-1, but it wouldn't change the fact the offense (esp the QB and RB and OL) sucked yesterday. But at least we'd feel better about it I guess...?

Criminals in this town used to believe in things...honor, respect."I heard your dog is sick, so bought you this shovel"

I'm just afraid if the Bengals insist on running NFL defenders out there it's likely to be ugly.

By the way (yeah...I just quoted myself), can you imagine the offensive fireworks if both Cuddles and Bleedin' got to face the Big12 patsies? My god. It'd be glorious to run either of them out there in that case.

Did you expect an offense full of rookie and 2nd year starters to put up points against one of the better defenses in the league? Especially one coached up by Pat Shurmer?

Hell, I'm just amazed that they were in this game at all considering how terrible they looked in preseason.

Swerb wrote:Go start a blog if you want to tell the world your incomprehendible ramblings.

Cerebral_DownTime wrote:I have a big arm and can throw the ball pretty damn far...... maybe even over those moutains. The Browns should sign me, i'll let you all in locker room to drink beer. Then we can all go out the parking lot to watch me do motorcycle stunts.

Did you expect an offense full of rookie and 2nd year starters to put up points against one of the better defenses in the league? Especially one coached up by Pat Shurmer?

Hell, I'm just amazed that they were in this game at all considering how terrible they looked in preseason.

I'm definitely not melting. I was looking at how I wanted to play my entries in the survivor league Sunday morning when it hit me that I could not find a team I thought would lose more games than the Browns. I guess I just didnt realize before then that I really thought they could be the worst team in the NFL this year.

They actually played a bit better than I expected. Of course not much, if Vick hadn't been only a hair better than Weeden the Iggles would have won by 4-5 TD's.

Last edited by JCoz on Mon Sep 10, 2012 11:42 am, edited 1 time in total.

Except for Andy Reid deciding to wait late in the fourth quarter to take advantage of the biggest advantage he had entering the game. That was pretty much the only thing that surprised me.

I'm still amazed that two nobodies in the linebacking corp. played as well as they did.

LJ Fort sounds like a guy who'd be in the 8th row starting in the Indy 500.

Craig Robertson? Didn't he play Darryl on "The Office"?

I was fully expecting Vick to take more advantage of how weak that area was and he really didn't. Honestly was expecting more of a 34-13 game.

Swerb wrote:Go start a blog if you want to tell the world your incomprehendible ramblings.

Cerebral_DownTime wrote:I have a big arm and can throw the ball pretty damn far...... maybe even over those moutains. The Browns should sign me, i'll let you all in locker room to drink beer. Then we can all go out the parking lot to watch me do motorcycle stunts.

Someone needs to put these pictures side-by-side with a pic of Peyton Manning and/or Tom Brady just so you truly can see the difference between someone comfortable in the pocket and the QB who is scared shitless.

Did you expect an offense full of rookie and 2nd year starters to put up points against one of the better defenses in the league? Especially one coached up by Pat Shurmer?

Hell, I'm just amazed that they were in this game at all considering how terrible they looked in preseason.

I'm definitely not melting. I was looking at how I wanted to play my entries in the survivor league Sunday morning when it hit me that I could not find a team I thought would lose more games than the Browns. I guess I just didnt realize before then that I really thought they could be the worst team in the NFL this year.

They actually played a bit better than I expected. Of course not much, if Vick hadn't been only a hair better than Weeden the Iggles would have won by 4-5 TD's.

It's hard to overlook Weeden's complete lack of pocket presence. It was discussed here starting just after the draft, but to actually have to witness that train wreck of a performance was demoralizing. Get the ball out sooner? Can be learned. Snaps from under center? Practice. Read coverages? Can be learned. Progressions to the second or third option? Comes with experience.

Not completely shitting the bed when a defender comes within 2 yards of you? Probably something you either have or do not have. We'll see.

I don't need to be patient, they're going to be shit forever. - CDT, discussing my favorite NFL team

Prosecutor wrote:I was actually encouraged. I expected to get blown out, not lose the game by a point in the final two minutes. Buffalo, Miami, Indy, and Tennessee lost by 20 points yesterday.

Weeden admitted he was "amped up". He missed two wide open receivers in the end zone. He won't keep missing them the rest of his career. He'll settle down and start hitting those passes. He completed 71% of his throws in college.

Richardson was rusty and is still not 100%. I still wouldn't want to be the next safety who gets in front of him with a loose chin strap.

What concerns me is the O-line. They didn't open one decent hole all day. TR was hit as soon as he took the handoff almost every time. It was like watching William Green in the playoffs against the Steelers.

Schwartz was no match for Jason Babin, and the guards just suck. This will be an issue all year, and I can see the Browns going the Steelers route next year and drafting offensive linemen with their first two picks. If Weeds is to have any chance he needs a strong running game like DA had in '07 and time to throw from the pocket.

Massaquoi looked good and should have finished with 5 catches for over 100 yards and a TD, but Weeden missed him twice. Gordon looked very athletic and a load to bring down on his two catches. Little still can't catch the ball and I expect him to finish the season below Gordon, MoMass, Benjamin and Cribbs on the depth chart.

This year is all about getting experience for Weeds, TR, Schwartz, Gordon, Cameron, and Benjamin. Next spring they go out and get two decent guards in FA or the draft and we're in business.

They had a chance to steal a win from a far superior team thanks to the Eagles refusal to run the ball, a rusty Michael Vick, a rash of penalties by the Eagles, and some very nice defensive scheming. It's probably better that they lost for draft positioning, but it would have been nice if Fort hangs on to that ball.

The Steelers lost and Ben got sacked five times. The day wasn't a total loss.

Now they get the Bengals on a short week. Hopefully the Ravens will beat them up pretty bad tonight.

Someone needs to put these pictures side-by-side with a pic of Peyton Manning and/or Tom Brady just so you truly can see the difference between someone comfortable in the pocket and the QB who is scared shitless.

I'm afraid you're actually serious.

I assumed Swerb was just fucking around with this, because nobody would actually think that you could take a snapshot of a QB from an NFL game and draw the conclusion that he is scared shitless because his eyes are a little wide.

Google Madison Baumgarner and take a gander at what he looks like when he's pitching.

Someone needs to put these pictures side-by-side with a pic of Peyton Manning and/or Tom Brady just so you truly can see the difference between someone comfortable in the pocket and the QB who is scared shitless.

I'm afraid you're actually serious.

I assumed Swerb was just fucking around with this, because nobody would actually think that you could take a snapshot of a QB from an NFL game and draw the conclusion that he is scared shitless because his eyes are a little wide.

Google Madison Baumgarner and take a gander at what he looks like when he's pitching.

I'm screwing with you because if you do that, it's hysterical. I used to work for newspapers, I know exactly how photos can be used to manipulate a story.

True story: The first paper I worked for had an edition literally ripped off the printer and every copy destroyed. Due to a computer glitch with the layout, the headline on the front page read something like "Child Molester Arrested," and right beneath it was a photo of a six-year old.

Rumor has it the publisher and the Editor stashed copies for themselves, but the publisher denied it, fearing a lawsuit.

The Browns defense was giving up yards but not points. The offense was doing zilch. The chances of actually converting a two-point try against that defense was well below 50%, IMO.

Imagine if he went for two, failed, and the Eagles kicked two FG's (one at the final gun), to win 16-15. He'd be getting his ass reamed.

It was the conservative call to be sure, but not a bad call. The way the Eagles defense was bitch slapping the Browns offense I seriously doubt the Browns would have come close to converting. No way they run it in, and who actually thinks Weeden would have completed a pass in the end zone the way he was throwing?

Prosecutor wrote:Imagine if he went for two, failed, and the Eagles kicked two FG's (one at the final gun), to win 16-15. He'd be getting his ass reamed.

As opposed to kicking the extra point and letting the Eagles drive 92 yards w/ 1 timeout in their pocket, aided by the Browns not converting a pass and stopping the clock (Hi Owen)essentially giving the Eagles a timeout. Yep, that's much easier to accept.

Maybe it's as simple as Shurmur has Dawson on his fantasy team and he needed all the points he could get, I don't know.

Galley Boys are slop on top of a so-so burger and a bun you coulde get from a Covneninet food mart generic pack. They the Antoine Joubert of burgers; soft, sloppy, oozing grease and cheap sauce and extremely overrated by a biased fan base. Proof that if you throw enough cheap sauce shit on a burger you still can't overcome the lame burger. -JB

Hikohadon wrote:I do appreciate the level of personal dislike that Weeden has found by the "fans" since... oh... he was drafted.

Stupid Weeden. Only a dick would allow the Browns to draft him.

Unless he's a cutie pie with great big doe eyes. Then it's OK.

Awww......Bleedin's got you in his corner. That's all he needs.

So cute that you well up when he gets picked on...

I personally don't dislike him in the least. He reminds me a lot of Peter Sellers in the Pink Panther movies. Bumbling and loveable in a funny sort of way. But Clousseau somehow always cracked the case in spite of himself.

That's my hope for your hope. For example, he seems to fumble every time he's hit. One of those fumbles is going to get picked up by a Brown and carried for a first down one of these days. One of those jump balls to the quick imp might get deflected by a ham handed DB and the deflection could go our way.

Hikohadon wrote:I do appreciate the level of personal dislike that Weeden has found by the "fans" since... oh... he was drafted.

Stupid Weeden. Only a dick would allow the Browns to draft him.

Unless he's a cutie pie with great big doe eyes. Then it's OK.

Awww......Bleedin's got you in his corner. That's all he needs.

So cute that you well up when he gets picked on...

I personally don't dislike him in the least. He reminds me a lot of Peter Sellers in the Pink Panther movies. Bumbling and loveable in a funny sort of way. But Clousseau somehow always cracked the case in spite of himself.

That's my hope for your hope. For example, he seems to fumble every time he's hit. One of those fumbles is going to get picked up by a Brown and carried for a first down one of these days. One of those jump balls to the quick imp might get deflected by a ham handed DB and the deflection could go our way.

Hikohadon wrote:I do appreciate the level of personal dislike that Weeden has found by the "fans" since... oh... he was drafted.

Stupid Weeden. Only a dick would allow the Browns to draft him.

Unless he's a cutie pie with great big doe eyes. Then it's OK.

No way it could be because someone didn't and doesn't think he can play. God, do those people look foolish. Sure is crazy to put any stock in what people said before the draft, and that Greg Cosell blurb wasn't even close to accurate.

Hikohadon wrote:I do appreciate the level of personal dislike that Weeden has found by the "fans" since... oh... he was drafted.

Stupid Weeden. Only a dick would allow the Browns to draft him.

Unless he's a cutie pie with great big doe eyes. Then it's OK.

Awww......Bleedin's got you in his corner. That's all he needs.

So cute that you well up when he gets picked on...

I personally don't dislike him in the least. He reminds me a lot of Peter Sellers in the Pink Panther movies. Bumbling and loveable in a funny sort of way. But Clousseau somehow always cracked the case in spite of himself.

That's my hope for your hope. For example, he seems to fumble every time he's hit. One of those fumbles is going to get picked up by a Brown and carried for a first down one of these days. One of those jump balls to the quick imp might get deflected by a ham handed DB and the deflection could go our way.

It's gonna be great!!

As if the disdain towards him were brand new.

Crybabies got their panties in a bunch since the draft.

Brandon, back me up here.

Aww...again.... so cute. "You all hated him before he shit himself yesterday. You never gave him a chance!!"

Rewatched the game to see if it changed my opinion. Sometimes you see things differently from the stadium seats.

Weeden didn't look all bad. Mixed in there were some nice slant passes. The first INT to Little was total bullshit. That should be 1st and goal at the 4. Hit him square in the chest.

The 2nd INT was a punt.

The scramble with 1 second left before half was classic. And not in a good way.

The 3rd INT was on an odd play. We had two WR running go routes close to each other. Gotta think if that was by design the throw was supposed to go underneath that traffic jam to some other crossing WR. Rookie mistake.

The drop by Marecic on 3rd down was catostrophic. No other way to put it. That was the big killer right there.

The 4th INT was rookie ,panic bullshit. He needed to take better care of the ball.

As bad as Weeden was, which was pretty bad but not nearly as Ty Detmer/Spergyn Wynn as some of you want to make it sound, T Rich was worse. He was so slow to the hole, often reading the incorrect hole. Not making anyone miss. Well...he did make one ghuy miss his helmet.

I think what we have here is a case of rookie players needing time. Sorry.

Hikohadon wrote:I do appreciate the level of personal dislike that Weeden has found by the "fans" since... oh... he was drafted.

Stupid Weeden. Only a dick would allow the Browns to draft him.

Unless he's a cutie pie with great big doe eyes. Then it's OK.

No way it could be because someone didn't and doesn't think he can play. God, do those people look foolish. Sure is crazy to put any stock in what people said before the draft, and that Greg Cosell blurb wasn't even close to accurate.

Good God... "personal dislike"... Bwah!!!!! Talk about butt-hurt.

No, you're right. The respect afforded Weeden after being drafted was exactly the same as Colt or Quinn. No one said anything negative about them prior to the draft. Drafting them wasn't a "mistake".

Hikohadon wrote:I do appreciate the level of personal dislike that Weeden has found by the "fans" since... oh... he was drafted.

Stupid Weeden. Only a dick would allow the Browns to draft him.

Unless he's a cutie pie with great big doe eyes. Then it's OK.

Awww......Bleedin's got you in his corner. That's all he needs.

So cute that you well up when he gets picked on...

I personally don't dislike him in the least. He reminds me a lot of Peter Sellers in the Pink Panther movies. Bumbling and loveable in a funny sort of way. But Clousseau somehow always cracked the case in spite of himself.

That's my hope for your hope. For example, he seems to fumble every time he's hit. One of those fumbles is going to get picked up by a Brown and carried for a first down one of these days. One of those jump balls to the quick imp might get deflected by a ham handed DB and the deflection could go our way.

It's gonna be great!!

As if the disdain towards him were brand new.

Crybabies got their panties in a bunch since the draft.

Brandon, back me up here.

Aww...again.... so cute. "You all hated him before he shit himself yesterday. You never gave him a chance!!"

mistero wrote:Rewatched the game to see if it changed my opinion. Sometimes you see things differently from the stadium seats.

Weeden didn't look all bad. Mixed in there were some nice slant passes. The first INT to Little was total bullshit. That should be 1st and goal at the 4. Hit him square in the chest.

The 2nd INT was a punt.

The scramble with 1 second left before half was classic. And not in a good way.

The 3rd INT was on an odd play. We had two WR running go routes close to each other. Gotta think if that was by design the throw was supposed to go underneath that traffic jam to some other crossing WR. Rookie mistake.

The drop by Marecic on 3rd down was catostrophic. No other way to put it. That was the big killer right there.

The 4th INT was rookie ,panic bullshit. He needed to take better care of the ball.

As bad as Weeden was, which was pretty bad but not nearly as Ty Detmer/Spergyn Wynn as some of you want to make it sound, T Rich was worse. He was so slow to the hole, often reading the incorrect hole. Not making anyone miss. Well...he did make one ghuy miss his helmet.

I think what we have here is a case of rookie players needing time. Sorry.

Careful, there's not nearly enough hyperbole in this comment for this thread. You'd better edit it to either claim Superbowl victory or the worst team of all time.

Seriously, our defense played better than anyone here could have hoped for. Why on Earth isn't that the story over the fact that rookies played like rookies? Did someone expect anything else? Weeden looked bad most of the day, with a few flashes. Mostly he played well until the Little "pick" at which point it looked like he got rattled and played like crap. I don't care in the slightest cause he's a rookie and it will take time.

Meanwhile, our D played as well as any team in football and that's awesome. That second hit on Maclin was just exciting. We were putting pressure on Vick, of all QBs. You need a pass rush in this NFL and all of a sudden, we may have one. That's a much bigger deal than rookies playing like rookies.

Oh, and Shurmur does seem to suck hard. Good news is that he's a lame duck and everyone knows it so it doesn't really matter. Although a regime change is exactly what Weeden doesn't need, so that's bad but probably unavoidable.

Dammit. I have no skills with photoshop. Just glad you took the time from hanging the Weeden Fathead and cutting pictures for the collage.

I love the fact the picture is saved as peeker01.jpg.

Awesome.

Only thing missing is your Vice-President of Hope & Propoganda dropping in to tell me how things actually went fairly well and are to be expected. But I think he sent Mistero.

Hey, see if you can come up with more pictures to try and distract people from the fact Weeden is ill-prepared to play NFL football. Okay? Thanks

Hikohadon wrote:

peeker643 wrote:

Hikohadon wrote:

peeker643 wrote:

Hikohadon wrote:I do appreciate the level of personal dislike that Weeden has found by the "fans" since... oh... he was drafted.

Stupid Weeden. Only a dick would allow the Browns to draft him.

Unless he's a cutie pie with great big doe eyes. Then it's OK.

Awww......Bleedin's got you in his corner. That's all he needs.

So cute that you well up when he gets picked on...

I personally don't dislike him in the least. He reminds me a lot of Peter Sellers in the Pink Panther movies. Bumbling and loveable in a funny sort of way. But Clousseau somehow always cracked the case in spite of himself.

That's my hope for your hope. For example, he seems to fumble every time he's hit. One of those fumbles is going to get picked up by a Brown and carried for a first down one of these days. One of those jump balls to the quick imp might get deflected by a ham handed DB and the deflection could go our way.

It's gonna be great!!

As if the disdain towards him were brand new.

Crybabies got their panties in a bunch since the draft.

Brandon, back me up here.

Aww...again.... so cute. "You all hated him before he shit himself yesterday. You never gave him a chance!!"