I liked having all the keys and doing the attunements. Having all the keys / Urn made me feel like I was important..... Now I did do CoT and the other pre-req for Kara many times for many alts and many fresh 70's in old care bear guild, and that shit got annoying.

Why would BT guilds be recruiting people that need kara attunement..... From what I remember poaching went BT > Tier 5 so you had to kill Kael / Vashj and Tier 5 could get tier 4 geared people and farm loot the first few tier 5 bosses, so the only people getting shit end of attunement stick imo were the kara guilds that had to run heroics again and again

Think you're talking about extremes. Since Heroics were required to get even the foot in the door, there wasn't a lot of carrying. If you "sucked" you were kicked. I don't know how many guilds put up with people not taking, not healing, and not dpsing in 5 mans just to carry them all the way through raiding content to begin with. Let's also not forget that at the initial, you had to do questing and normals and dailies to get to revered before you could do heroics.

That's a hell of a lot of work with NO ONE noticing that who ever is with them isn't playing.

I was a tank for a guild that died due to poaching. I am telling you, right now, all of it was carrying.

For example..... in tbc you had too sheep one orc or the tank was one shot instantly .

I loved having a SP in party for MC's on the mob packs leading up to Murmur in H-Slabs.

Hehe, I remember the pack of 6 mobs in the room with Blackheart could be brutal. Having a rogue pop up at the wrong time in a party that was not in at least good mix of Kara and Heroic gear, was usually a wipe.

1) It required entire (some) raids to go back to content 80% of them didn't need to attune new members who weren't quite to their level. This created entire farm nights were most people didn't get gear and just felt like a giant waste of time. But you had to do it to keep new blood flowing into the guild.

2) You had to do it for any alts you had. Right now (and for much of wow) if your guild is fine with carrying you through some of the easy fights, you can quickly gear up your alt with loot no one needs. This puts you very quickly into normals and perhaps heroics, which is what you want to play (getting you to your raid level quickly). In BC, you had to do all the attunement stuff all over again before that could happen, which made a much higher barrier of entry.

I don't have a problem with any attunements. For instance, some sort of skill check for LFD, LFR, and any other random queue content would be quite nice. Doesn't have to be too high, just there. But BC attunements had some pretty big drawbacks that made for some miserable times.

Blizz can just not win. Every single decision has a disgruntled vocal minority screaming their heads off on the forums about how it's the worst thing ever. Some folks demanding a higher barrier to entry and mandatory progression through old content, other folks demanding the exact opposite. Not asking for, not presenting arguments for ... demanding.

Legendary cloak is not an attunement, and its not mandatory for progress. People just blindly think it is because its "orange"

I also believe that at the time, having to do Heroics was a good gate. It forced players to participate if they wanted to raid, and due to design, it also forced them to become better at their class.

It meant that if you had your Attunements, you probably knew what the hell your were doing.

Uh, no... not really. My former vanilla 40m raiding guild had no problems getting the attunements for everyone, but we had to shed half our roster once we actually started raiding because we couldn't carry their dead weight in the raids. This was especially evident in our multiple karazhan groups where we realized picking groups based primarily the most ideal class comps was failing... had to meticulously select the groups so we didn't have too much dead weight in one area.

As bad as people seem to think it sounds, I think of nothing but fondness about it.
Raids felt like they meant something when you entered them.

Maybe if these were difficult but none of them were. Unless you were in a bad guild then all of these including the boss kill requirements were piss easy. They were just frustrating to deal with for the lesser guilds with high turnover rates. I never felt a single drop of accomplishment for any of these. The accomplishment was killing bosses in the relevant tier before anyone else on the server.

Uh, no... not really. My former vanilla 40m raiding guild had no problems getting the attunements for everyone, but we had to shed half our roster once we actually started raiding because we couldn't carry their dead weight in the raids. This was especially evident in our multiple karazhan groups where we realized picking groups based primarily the most ideal class comps was failing... had to meticulously select the groups so we didn't have too much dead weight in one area.

See... I can't feel bad for this. If you didn't notice them sucking in Vanilla raiding, and you couldn't figure out their lack of performance during Heroics... why should anyone feel bad?

Most complaints and tears on this subject tend to come from both poor guild leadership and lack of attention. It plays out in my mind that there was a ton of rushing only to realize no one was "ready" and then there was a wall hit. That lead to people who were ready, who were able, to get annoyed and go to other guilds. Leadership was a HUGE measure in tbc and something that was wildly absent.

See... I can't feel bad for this. If you didn't notice them sucking in Vanilla raiding, and you couldn't figure out their lack of performance during Heroics... why should anyone feel bad?

Most complaints and tears on this subject tend to come from both poor guild leadership and lack of attention. It plays out in my mind that there was a ton of rushing only to realize no one was "ready" and then there was a wall hit. That lead to people who were ready, who were able, to get annoyed and go to other guilds. Leadership was a HUGE measure in tbc and something that was wildly absent.

Frankly it was ok to have horrendous people in your raid in vanilla if you were only doing MC and the lesser half of AQ40. Both of those only required you to have like 18 people that were paying attention as long as the others were spamming buttons and not completely afk.

Frankly it was ok to have horrendous people in your raid in vanilla if you were only doing MC and the lesser half of AQ40. Both of those only required you to have like 18 people that were paying attention as long as the others were spamming buttons and not completely afk.

I nor anyone I knew personally raided Vanilla so I wouldn't know from first hand experience. That being said, the implication still stands. It does sort of boil down to people complaining that after they "did all the work" caring people, those useless people they carried left leaving them short. Turns out, Tbc raiding wouldn't have allowed you to keep them anyway. Only top notch guilds worked with 1 maybe 2 short after completion. This is why very few guilds could sell t6 pieces.

See... I can't feel bad for this. If you didn't notice them sucking in Vanilla raiding, and you couldn't figure out their lack of performance during Heroics... why should anyone feel bad?

Most complaints and tears on this subject tend to come from both poor guild leadership and lack of attention. It plays out in my mind that there was a ton of rushing only to realize no one was "ready" and then there was a wall hit. That lead to people who were ready, who were able, to get annoyed and go to other guilds. Leadership was a HUGE measure in tbc and something that was wildly absent.

The way it plays out in your mind and how it happened are two very different things.

memories of having to slog through all that crap whenever we got poached by a Kael/Vashj guild and tried to get people reattuned for TK/SSC.

Hate, hate, hated attunements. They were tedious and time consuming for alts and new group members. Many of them were cool and interesting the first time, but after that you never wanted to have to deal with them again.