Ah, yep. I give this pretty good odds that previous to firing said phosphorous rounds, the braying sound of the redneck mating call of "Hey ya'll, watch this!" was heard loud enough to hear though their ear protection.

Ablejack:Target practice with 50 gallon drums bobbing around at sea with 20mm tracers is good times. I cannot imagine tracers add much to the indoor range experience.

Stupid action on the part of the person who shot them, but it could have been the only way he *COULD* shoot them.

You can buy tracer ammo, it's not illegal, and in fact I had a box of 7.62mm NATO tracers a couple decades ago that I ran through my old Mauser. The difference: I was shooting them into a hill covered with about a foot of snow at the time.

I had access to a place where I could shoot them safely. This guy may not have.

dittybopper:Stupid action on the part of the person who shot them, but it could have been the only way he *COULD* shoot them.

He could have just got rid of them and used "safe" ammo, instead of not thinking and burning down a building.

When we cleaned out my grandfather's garage after he died, we found a bunch of old lead-based paint, old ammo of questionable condition, and even two bottles of mercury (still haven't figured out why on that one). We didn't shoot off the ammo, paint the barn, and drink the mercury. We took it to the appropriate disposal facilities.

jnoel:'Police kept onlookers at least a block away due to the threat of exploding munitions'

Brilliant.

That should be good enough. I once new an archeologist that did a lot of US Civil War digs, his basement had lots of unfired munitions and his house caught fire. He said it kept the fire deportment away for most of the day and night while his house burned.

Tat'dGreaser:stevarooni: Never seen an indoor range accepting of tracer rounds, but I wouldn't think they'd be especially vulnerable to burning down.

I have a feeling he broke a couple rules there

Yup. Tracing compound burns really hot and can easily set stuff on fire. Most of the indoor ranges I've been to have rubber panels at the rear of the range through which bullets must pass on their way to the bullet traps (the panels are to absorb sound and prevent ricochets). Tracing compound could easily set such rubber panels on fire. Pretty much any range prohibits tracers due to the fire risk.

I'm surprised that there wasn't a fire-suppression system (like sprinklers or some other mechanism) that could reduce the severity of a fire.

jnoel:'Police kept onlookers at least a block away due to the threat of exploding munitions'

Brilliant.

Small arms ammo isn't really explosive and poses a relatively low risk beyond a few meters if it's not being fired from a gun -- it basically goes "pop" and the case pops off the bullet (the bullet, being heavier, tends to not move as much) at relatively low velocity. There's some heat and flame but no explosion. Now, if the range had bulk powder storage or exploding targets (unlikely at an indoor range) then there'd be a greater risk, but federal regulations and fire codes require proper storage magazines if one is storing more than a certain amount of powder, explosives, etc.

It's not like an indoor range is a military ammo dump containing tons of high explosives and other dangerous stuff.

Shadowknight:He could have just got rid of them and used "safe" ammo, instead of not thinking and burning down a building.

Well, duh.

I was pointing out that he probably didn't have a safe place to shoot them. Also, it's possible that he didn't know they were tracers until he fired them. Generally, tracer ammo has the tip of the bullet painted a different color, but not everyone knows what the different colors mean, and going back to my ammo, some of it was old enough that the paint was flaking off. Admittedly, it's unlikely, but possible.

dittybopper:Shadowknight: He could have just got rid of them and used "safe" ammo, instead of not thinking and burning down a building.

Well, duh.

I was pointing out that he probably didn't have a safe place to shoot them. Also, it's possible that he didn't know they were tracers until he fired them. Generally, tracer ammo has the tip of the bullet painted a different color, but not everyone knows what the different colors mean, and going back to my ammo, some of it was old enough that the paint was flaking off. Admittedly, it's unlikely, but possible.

I was always taught that if you're unsure of your ammo, don't shoot it. Much like if you're not sure of the weapon you're holding (be it clear or safe to shoot) you might not want to pull the trigger either.

But then, I wasn't raised in a gun-nut house where we had random/stray ammo laying around, like this guy apparently did. Either he had ammo he wasn't sure of or didn't know what it was, or he purposely shoot off tracer rounds without thinking of what a supersonic projectile burning at 1500F would likely do. Either way, he shouldn't be playing with guns, because he's too stupid to be trusted with anything more than a sturdy pencil.

Shadowknight:dittybopper: Shadowknight: He could have just got rid of them and used "safe" ammo, instead of not thinking and burning down a building.

Well, duh.

I was pointing out that he probably didn't have a safe place to shoot them. Also, it's possible that he didn't know they were tracers until he fired them. Generally, tracer ammo has the tip of the bullet painted a different color, but not everyone knows what the different colors mean, and going back to my ammo, some of it was old enough that the paint was flaking off. Admittedly, it's unlikely, but possible.

I was always taught that if you're unsure of your ammo, don't shoot it. Much like if you're not sure of the weapon you're holding (be it clear or safe to shoot) you might not want to pull the trigger either.

But then, I wasn't raised in a gun-nut house where we had random/stray ammo laying around, like this guy apparently did. Either he had ammo he wasn't sure of or didn't know what it was, or he purposely shoot off tracer rounds without thinking of what a supersonic projectile burning at 1500F would likely do. Either way, he shouldn't be playing with guns, because he's too stupid to be trusted with anything more than a sturdy pencil.

I wouldn't necessarily go that far.

Do you advocate pulling the driver's license of people who hit a patch of black ice and that causes an accident that damages other's property?

There are basically two relevant facts:1. Did the range have a sign forbidding tracer or other incendiary ammo?2. Did the person in question know beforehand that the ammo was tracer ammo?

If the answer to both is "Yes", then the guy is civilly responsible. If either or both of them is "No", then he's not.

Shadowknight:dittybopper: Stupid action on the part of the person who shot them, but it could have been the only way he *COULD* shoot them.

He could have just got rid of them and used "safe" ammo, instead of not thinking and burning down a building.

When we cleaned out my grandfather's garage after he died, we found a bunch of old lead-based paint, old ammo of questionable condition, and even two bottles of mercury (still haven't figured out why on that one). We didn't shoot off the ammo, paint the barn, and drink the mercury. We took it to the appropriate disposal facilities.

My dad dry panned for gold when he lived in Nevada. At the time, ie 1960s, the most common method of extracting the gold from the final bit of material left was to use mercury.

A bottle that he had supposedly had four ounces of gold dissolved in it. Sadly it disappeared from where it was stored at my grandfather's home after grandpa died.

With the current ammo shortages, a lot of places only have tracer available in calibers like .223, and people are dumb enough to buy it without really thinking about what it is. Then when you get to the range, the range owner will usually check for steel core which damages back stops, but otherwise it's the responsibility of the shooter to know what he or she is shooting.

So, I can't really say the guy was criminally negligent, as I'm sure he didn't shoot the tracer off on purpose. Stupid? Failing to check the type of ammo certainly qualifies. But i'm not going to pile on the guy because a confluence of events happened causing a massive fail.

Shadowknight:brerrabbit: My dad dry panned for gold when he lived in Nevada. At the time, ie 1960s, the most common method of extracting the gold from the final bit of material left was to use mercury.

A bottle that he had supposedly had four ounces of gold dissolved in it. Sadly it disappeared from where it was stored at my grandfather's home after grandpa died.

Huh... Well, that's a possibility, I guess. Thanks for the insight, you may have just solved a very old mystery.

dittybopper: I wouldn't necessarily go that far.

Do you advocate pulling the driver's license of people who hit a patch of black ice and that causes an accident that damages other's property?

There are basically two relevant facts:1. Did the range have a sign forbidding tracer or other incendiary ammo?2. Did the person in question know beforehand that the ammo was tracer ammo?

If the answer to both is "Yes", then the guy is civilly responsible. If either or both of them is "No", then he's not.

I'm not saying that he should legally not allowed to own guns. But those responsible for this retard should probably do it for him.

You say he's a retard, when you don't even know he *knew* it was tracer ammo when he fired it. For all we know, he loaded up what he *thought* were regular ball rounds, shot the first round, saw the glow of the tracer going down range and had an oh-shiat moment, while said tracer lodged in something flammable and the whole place went up.

Dry, Flammable material + Heat Source == Fire. If anything, the range shares partial culpability because if there was enough flammable material that the place went up like a box of matches, then there was something very very wrong to begin with. At 25 yards, if someone were to come in with a black powder weapon, or a reloader shooting powders that make a big fireball, or even something sparks just right, that could also have started the fire.

See, this is why I'm of two minds about the 2nd amendment. If you enshrine the right for everybody to own and use guns, _everybody_ gets to use them, including the ones who are too dumb/dangerous/crazy to use one responsibly or safely.

YixilTesiphon:Every indoor range I've been to asks you to show them your ammo first. No hollow point, no exploding.

My range only has two rules that I'm aware of for the indoor pistol range, related to the ammo: Lead bullets only (no jacketed ammo), and velocity under 1,000 fps. I don't shoot at the indoor handgun range, though, because I don't own a handgun*, so I don't know if they have a rule against tracer ammo, but I imagine they do.

*Stupid NYS laws require you to spend roughly $150 and wait several months just to get permission to own one.