13:00 < jds2001> who's here?
13:00 < jds2001> let's get this party started :)
13:01 -!- giallu [n=giallu@81-174-9-68.dynamic.ngi.it] has joined #fedora-meeting
13:01 * nirik is sorta around, but dealing with about 3 things at once.
13:01 * poelcat here
13:01 * stickster here fwiw
13:01 < poelcat> stickster: joing the BugZahpahs?
13:02 < stickster> I want to at least see how I can pitch it to a larger group
13:02 < poelcat> that's what they're called in the NE ;-)
13:02 < stickster> That makes me think we're shooting lobsters
13:02 < jds2001> lol
13:02 < stickster> They call those "bugs" up there in Yankee-land
13:03 < jds2001> heh :)
13:04 < jds2001> so this meeting is supposed to discuss tehse proposals, iwas hoping for a better turnoout :/
13:04 < jds2001> http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/JohnPoelstra/BugzillaExtremeMakeOver and http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/BugZappers/HouseKeeping
13:05 < poelcat> jds2001: i got it added to the fesco schedule for tomorrow too
13:05 < jds2001> cool, saw that.
13:05 < poelcat> only constructive feedback I've gotten so far (in private mail)
13:05 < poelcat> was "what about tracking RFEs or Feature" bugzillas
13:06 < poelcat> suggestion was that those should always stay open and rawhide
13:06 < jds2001> yep, so long as they start with RFE we can exclude them easily
13:06 < jds2001> same with Package Reviews
13:07 < jds2001> so long as we're just providing an advanced query to eng-ops, that's quite doable.
13:08 < jds2001> actually i wonder if ppl are using the FutureFeature keyword like they should
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13:09 < jds2001> yep, 431 bugs w/that keyword open
13:09 < poelcat> well, then they complained that they shouldn't use the subject line or keyword :-/
13:10 < jds2001> huh? How do wwe tell then?
13:10 * poelcat is puzzled too
13:10 < poelcat> kind of like some of the feedback on the list
13:10 < poelcat> "that is a bad idea... it won't work"
13:10 < poelcat> "i don't have any suggestions on how to change it either"
13:11 < poelcat> given our current environment I think FutureFeature is the best way to go
13:12 < jds2001> well i just did a FutureFeature OR ^RFE, and it raised the number to 542
13:12 < poelcat> jds2001: more good stuff to add to the procdures somewhere
13:13 < poelcat> jds2001: hopefully tomorrow's meeting will draw more attention to it... or maybe it is just really good ;-)
13:13 < jds2001> hehe :)
13:13 < poelcat> we can move on if you want
13:13 * poelcat wants to talk about RSS hawtness
13:14 < jds2001> alrighty
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13:14 < poelcat> I guess it makes sense to add Feature exclusion to cleanup and regular procedures
13:15 < jds2001> yeah, and likely package review too
13:15 < poelcat> on the other hand does it make sense to keep a feature open forever if it is never going to be implemented?
13:15 < jds2001> but you exclude features you end up with cruft like bug 11539
13:15 < buggbot> Bug https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=11539 medium, low, ---, Bill Nottingham, ASSIGNED , /sbin/ifup should not allow everyone to bring interface up/down
13:16 < poelcat> true
13:17 -!- JSchmitt [n=s4504kr@p54B10E5E.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #fedora-meeting
13:18 < jds2001> what sucks is the modified date of every bug was changed as the result of versioning changes
13:18 -!- nphilipp [n=nils@155.56.26.52] has quit ["Leaving"]
13:18 < jds2001> so I can't just say show me stuff that hasn't been touched in a year
13:18 < jds2001> :(
13:18 < poelcat> you can blame me for that :)
13:19 < poelcat> at least we don't have "test3" as a version any more :)
13:19 < jds2001> no, it's a good thing :)
13:19 < poelcat> I propose that we backburner feature thing and see what other feedback comes in
13:20 < jds2001> yep
13:20 < poelcat> or go the more aggressive route of closing them and seeing if we "hear" from people
13:20 < jds2001> RSS feed improvements are forthcoming
13:20 < poelcat> that seemms like a really good solution!?
13:20 < poelcat> the whole RSS thing
13:20 < jds2001> yeah
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13:21 < poelcat> can you create a wiki page so people can create their own custom queries?
13:21 * jds2001 wonders if that code is on parner-bugzilla yet
13:21 < poelcat> wiki page w/ instructions on how to do it
13:21 < jds2001> there's just an RSS link at the bottom of the search
13:21 < poelcat> so why do you put it in feedburner?
13:22 < jds2001> you could subscribe to that. The URL is about a mile long, that's why i used feedburner for the "advertised" ones
13:22 < poelcat> right
13:22 < poelcat> so once the fix is in people can watch single components?
13:23 < jds2001> they can do that today with the 'advertised' feeds
13:23 < poelcat> could a maintainer make a feed to see all bugs where they are assigned to?
13:23 < poelcat> then what does that RFE address?
13:23 < jds2001> what fields are included in the feed
13:24 < jds2001> like the component isn't there today, making it fairly useless for some ppl
13:26 < jds2001> hmm, doesnt look like that code is on partner-bugzilla yet
13:26 < poelcat> hmm in my feed reader I only see the bz# and descrition
13:27 < jds2001> if you open it, you'll see opened date, assignee, severity, priority, status, and changed date
13:27 < jds2001> those fields will change on tomorrow....
13:29 < jds2001> stickster: wanna talk about your ideas for expanding the audience?
13:29 * jds2001 is all ears :)
13:30 < stickster> Well, I was wondering if you guys had seen this:
13:30 < stickster> http://git.mg8.org/kwestie/
13:30 < stickster> Unfortunately, still looking for a "show off the goods" site
13:31 < stickster> It's not really feasible as a suggestion, just interesting from the community bug perspective
13:31 < stickster> This is something Bryan Clark is working on, an email-driven bug tracker
13:31 < stickster> Simplified interface, intensely XML driven, and consumable by other instances
13:32 < jds2001> so, the triage team would take this stuff and throw it in bugzilla?
13:32 < stickster> So you can basically set up a Kwestie bug tracker of your own that takes feeds from other kwestie bug trackers, so it's like Bugzilla-meets-RSSreader.
13:33 < jds2001> that's fairly cool.
13:33 < stickster> Newer bugzilla probably has better RSS/XML capabilities and might be able to tie better with this.
13:34 < stickster> One of the questions Kwestie answers is, "how does my customer/user enter bugs without having a PhD in Bugzilla?"
13:34 < jds2001> i dunno. I do know that RH bugzilla support xmlrpc methods that upstream didn't.
13:34 < jds2001> I think they're trying to get that stuff upstream w/3.2
13:34 < stickster> Anyway, this is a side issue.
13:34 < stickster> I just wanted you guys to have a link to it -- it's Ruby on Rails I think, so if you know how to set that stuff up, you should be able to take it for a test drive.
13:35 * stickster scratches his head.
13:35 < poelcat> stickster: way back when wwoods proposed a special start page for Fedora, but I think issue was someone w/ skilz to implement it
13:35 < poelcat> i think that is our best solution for now
13:35 < stickster> sure... again, not proposing that we do anything with Kwestie at this time.
13:35 < poelcat> it would mask all the unnecessary stuff
13:36 < stickster> Just wanted to see if you guys had heard of it already.
13:36 < wwoods> we're not moving to a new bug tracker
13:36 < wwoods> that's ridiculous
13:36 < jds2001> the pervasive issue that i've seen with bugzilla is that we have 5000 components
13:36 < stickster> wwoods: Right.
13:36 < poelcat> wwoods: no one is suggesting that :)
13:36 < wwoods> just making sure that's clear
13:36 < stickster> But thanks for clearing it up ;-)
13:37 < poelcat> wwoods: do you have a pointer to the start page ideas you had?
13:37 < wwoods> yeah. we don't need to present all 5000 components to the user. we could have a smart client-based pygtk tool
13:37 < jds2001> but the thing is, we have 5000 components because we *have* 5000 components.
13:37 < wwoods> with wizards and gizards and auto-log-grabbing
13:37 < stickster> Like a better bug-buddy?
13:37 < wwoods> yes. like a better bug-buddy.
13:37 < wwoods> make days 30 hours long and I'll finish it in a month
13:37 < stickster> heh
13:37 * stickster waves wand *zap!*
13:38 < poelcat> wwoods: when/if we could secure an intern... do you think that would be a viable project for them?
13:38 < wwoods> we should write up a spec for such an app
13:38 < jds2001> we were thinking that's something an intern could do.
13:38 < wwoods> and do some UI mockups
13:38 -!- petreu| [n=peter@p3EE3C199.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #fedora-meeting
13:38 < wwoods> but yes
13:38 < wwoods> given a spec to code to and some ui mockups
13:38 < wwoods> definitely
13:39 < wwoods> well. probably. I'm making some unsupported assumptions about intern skillllz
13:39 < poelcat> i naively added that to the intern page someone created
13:39 < poelcat> as a possible project
13:39 < poelcat> wwoods: didn't you scope something out to the websites mailing list?
13:40 < jds2001> gack, the one im not on :)
13:40 < wwoods> maybe? probably?
13:40 < wwoods> maybe like a year ago I had a mockup simplified bug entry page
13:40 < wwoods> that is Not The Solution
13:40 < wwoods> couldn't hurt though
13:41 < wwoods> if I had time for either I'd work on the clientside app first
13:41 < poelcat> wwoods: that's what I was remembering :)
13:43 < jds2001> wwoods: if it's not too much of a problem, ask dkl to push the new RSS code to partner-bugzilla
13:44 < jds2001> i still dont see it there, and it's supposedly going out tomorrow (unless i misunderstood)
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13:46 < jds2001> anything else?
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13:47 * poelcat is good
13:47 < nirik> I might have something... ;)
13:47 < jds2001> shoot :)
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13:48 < nirik> not sure if it's bugzapper, but I think related... Would it be possible to generate a list of 'these comonents need maintainer help' ? ie, identify where we could get more maintainers for some components that get lots of bugs?
13:48 < jds2001> sure
13:48 < jds2001> i do some reporting already on that sort of stuff.
13:48 < nirik> or even a top 10 list of 'these got the most new bugs last week'...
13:48 < poelcat> nirik: we were thinking of collecting data like that as we start the cleanup
13:48 < nirik> ok, cool. I think some reporting like that posted to the devel list could help out...
13:48 < poelcat> like a before/during/after snapshot
13:49 < poelcat> to see where the pain points are
13:49 < jds2001> if you want a weekly report to f-devel of bugs filed in the last week, that can certaintly be arranged.
13:49 < poelcat> nirik: my only fear is that the data might get taken in the wrong way
13:49 < nirik> yeah, it would need some explaining...
13:50 < nirik> don't want all bugs, but perhaps a breakdown by component/release or something...
13:50 < nirik> I'm sure we know the kernel gets a lot of bugs, but it might identify some other component that only has a single maintainer or something where we could go help.
13:50 < jds2001> yeah, i privately have some reports targeting rawhide
13:50 -!- mpdehaan [n=mpdehaan@nat/redhat/x-6a3c70077189ff4d] has joined #fedora-meeting
13:51 < jds2001> take a look in ~jstanley/public_html on fedorapeople.org if you wanna see the data :)
13:52 < nirik> cool.
13:52 < jds2001> three are some spreadsheets there that aren't linked to anywhere.
13:53 < jds2001> let me know if something like that is what you wanna see.
13:53 < jds2001> i have a report at home of last month, but it's sorta tainted due to gcc43
13:54 < poelcat> nirik: as a FESCo-er can you give any guidance on what stuff we need to take there for review or not?
13:54 < nirik> I think surely the bug closing/livecycle/moving forward should get approved...
13:54 < poelcat> right now we're taking the approach that anything highly disruptive or that we need to get the word out on should be brought up there
13:54 < nirik> yeah, that seems reasonable to me.
13:55 < poelcat> okay thanks
13:56 < jds2001> hopefully the discussion tehre will be lively tomorrow.
13:56 * jds2001 is disappointed with the lack of feedback thus far.
13:56 < nirik> yeah, I was expecting more flames...
13:56 < jds2001> of course everyone will scream bloody murder when it actually *ahppens*
13:56 < nirik> perhaps people just didn't see it...
13:57 < nirik> you could post to the fedora list. :) Get end user feedback.
13:57 < jds2001> that might not be a bad idea.
13:58 < jds2001> except that my normal account isn't subscribed. I have another one that is.
13:58 < jds2001> WAAAYYY too high volume and s/n for me :)
13:58 < poelcat> jds2001: i can post there if you like
13:59 < jds2001> nah, i can do it, just wont come from my normal acct.
13:59 -!- rdieter_away is now known as rdieter
13:59 * poelcat is subscribed and behind 2,000 messages
13:59 < jds2001> lol better than my 5,000 threads :)
13:59 < poelcat> jds2001: fwiw I think it best to just post the links and not the raw wiki text
14:00 < jds2001> for there, yeah
14:00 < smooge> hi guys how long til end of meeting for you?
14:00 -!- JSchmitt [n=s4504kr@fedora/JSchmitt] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
14:00 < poelcat> smooge: now :)
14:00 < jds2001> i guess we can move :)