By the definition that some have here of what constitutes a #1 defenseman, there are substantially less #1 defensemen than there are teams in the NHL.

This. Too many people define a #1 D as "all-star-Norris trophy candidate-hall of famer." As someone else said, those are Franchise Defencemen and no-one here would argue Kronwall is one of those.

Plus we've been spoiled rotten and given insane expectations of what to expect from a #1D by 20 years of Lidstrom.

"If I can be totally honest, it's not a lot of guys you get impressed by. Actually, it's no one else but him. From the bench, to see what move he makes -- you're like, 'I wish I could do that.' Sometimes you sit on the bench and just think, 'wow,' and you look over to the other bench and they sit there and shake their heads, too. He has great, great skills. I'm probably not going to play with another player who has the kind of skills he has." Mikael Samuelsson on Pavel Datsyuk

I don't want to make a rank order list because I'm feeling pretty lazy, but I'd add Pietrangelo to your list and probably remove Karlsson. His offensive is obviously WAY better, but as shaky as Kronwall may seem at times, imagine if he were only 175 lbs and much weaker.

GMRwings: "Well, in other civilized countries, 16 years old isn't considered underage. For instance, I believe the age of consent is 16 in Canada. There's some US states where it's 16 as well.

We should have expected this season to be kind of a clusterf***. Lidstrom retired, they lost Stuart, then a third of the guys they expected to play on the top 3 lines all went down early. That's a lot of shuffling and guys playing new roles, with no camp and only a short season to get used to the changes. Kronwall had to adjust to being Nik instead of just Nik Jr., Ericsson needed to adjust to being #2, and they were working Smith in. There wasn't a single defenseman who had a partner they'd spent any significant time with before this year. It usually takes time to build chemistry and get your communication down. If you add Zetterberg having to adjust to being the captain and working 3 rookie forwards in too, that's about 3 normal offseasons worth of changes they had to make with no camp.

Throwing Kronwall under the bus for "playing worse" as a #1 than he did as the #2 guy is kind of harsh. I expect him, and everyone else, to be much better next season after a full training camp and half a season of the changes.

They basically all had their training camps with different players than they played with.

"The more I know about people - the better I like my dog." - Mark Twain

"A wise man once told me, ‘Don’t argue with fools. Cause people from a distance can’t tell who is who'." Jay Z, Takeover

"When I was looking for a captain, I wanted a guy with the Red Wings crest tattooed on his chest," said former Detroit coach Jacques Demers, who named Yzerman captain in 1986. "Steve Yzerman was that guy."

“Told him if he wasn't ultra-competitive he couldn't come here. If he didn't bring it every day he couldn't come here, because he was going to hate it if he didn't, dislike the coach and dislike playing here.

“It's real straightforward. If you don't do it right, you're not happy here." Babcock

I don't get the joke. Two players you bolded won the last two Norris trophies.

That's because the Norris has become nothing more than a scoring race for Dmen, no matter if they can even play the defensive side of the game. They just load up their points on the PP and win the Norris. Suter should have won it this year over the other 2 candidates. The Norris is supposed to be awarded to the "best all-around Dman" and that's where the trophy is losing a lot of credibility along with numerous others.

As for guys "as good" or "better" than Kronwall:

Pietrangelo, Doughty, Chara, Weber, Suter, Boychuk, Keith, Yandle, Ekman-Larsson, Shattenkirk and McDonough. There is a list of guys who can play both sides of the ice. Kronwall is basically equivalent to Keith, Yandle and Shattenkirk as an exact play style.

the expectations for a number 1 defenseman are obviously high and this already excludes franchise guys like Lidström (hope his son will fill in for him).

Letang is terrible in his own end. If he, Phaneuf, Shattenkirk, and probably a couple of the other guys were Wings we'd have a bunch of people complaining about them, too. Kronwall is a solid #1 d, with a few guys who are better and a few more right around the same level.

I bought some Maple Lea Tea. It cost a fortune and didn't come with a Cup.

I know you like Girardi a lot; but by the accounts of many Rangers fans, he did not at all have a good season.

And?

"If I were to wish for anything, I should not wish for wealth and power, but for the passionate sense of the potential, for the eye which, ever young and ardent, sees the possible. Pleasure disappoints, possibility never. And what wine is so sparkling, what so fragrant, what so intoxicating, as possibility!" - Kierkegaard