When to Fire Someone in the Church and Business World

Show Notes

When is time to fire somebody? How do you really know when it is time to let someone go? Dr. Z, Clay Clark and Pastors Brian and Jessi Gibson break down how to know when it’s time to let someone go in the world of ministry.

Knowing When To Fire Someone

BOOK – The Hard Thing About Hard Things: Building a Business When There Are No Easy Answers

NOTABLE QUOTABLE – “Every time I read a management or self-help book, I find myself saying, “That’s fine, but that wasn’t really the hard thing about the situation.” The hard thing isn’t setting a big, hairy, audacious goal. The hard thing is laying people off when you miss the big goal. The hard thing isn’t hiring great people. The hard thing is when those “great people” develop a sense of entitlement and start demanding unreasonable things. The hard thing isn’t setting up an organizational chart. The hard thing is getting people to communicate within the organization that you just designed. The hard thing isn’t dreaming big. The hard thing is waking up in the middle of the night in a cold sweat when the dream turns into a nightmare.”

― Ben Horowitz, The Hard Thing About Hard Things: Building a Business When There Are No Easy Answers

Dr Z moves for firing someone:

Decide they are going to be fired.

Fire them on YOUR time.

When it is time simply say “It’s just not working out”.

NOTABLE QUOTABLE – The Parable of the Bags of Gold

14 “Again, it will be like a man going on a journey, who called his servants and entrusted his wealth to them. 15 To one he gave five bags of gold, to another two bags, and to another one bag,[a] each according to his ability. Then he went on his journey. 16 The man who had received five bags of gold went at once and put his money to work and gained five bags more. 17 So also, the one with two bags of gold gained two more. 18 But the man who had received one bag went off, dug a hole in the ground and hid his master’s money. 19 “After a long time the master of those servants returned and settled accounts with them.20 The man who had received five bags of gold brought the other five. ‘Master,’ he said, ‘you entrusted me with five bags of gold. See, I have gained five more.’ 21 “His master replied, ‘Well done, good and faithful servant! You have been faithful with a few things; I will put you in charge of many things. Come and share your master’s happiness!’ 22 “The man with two bags of gold also came. ‘Master,’ he said, ‘you entrusted me with two bags of gold; see, I have gained two more.’ 23 “His master replied, ‘Well done, good and faithful servant! You have been faithful with a few things; I will put you in charge of many things. Come and share your master’s happiness!’ 24 “Then the man who had received one bag of gold came. ‘Master,’ he said, ‘I knew that you are a hard man, harvesting where you have not sown and gathering where you have not scattered seed. 25 So I was afraid and went out and hid your gold in the ground. See, here is what belongs to you.’ 26 “His master replied, ‘You wicked, lazy servant! So you knew that I harvest where I have not sown and gather where I have not scattered seed? 27 Well then, you should have put my money on deposit with the bankers, so that when I returned I would have received it back with interest. 28 “‘So take the bag of gold from him and give it to the one who has ten bags. 29 For whoever has will be given more, and they will have an abundance. Whoever does not have, even what they have will be taken from them. 30 And throw that worthless servant outside, into the darkness, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.’

Matthew 25:14-30

Audio Transcription

The world’s best business coaching workshop america’s number one business and you did it and your contact information to input drivetime show.Com turn on radio before okay fire far away. Are you a fan of street performers in new, york, city, I love, those guys, I love the street performers in vegas i? Don’t even want to go to see a show every time she wants to go, see a show or go see the circus something away and he went to go see the circus want to see a broadway I’d rather watch the guy beat the buckets. I love those guys., I love, those guys too and think about it is i. Did you return that the youtube video that very famous violinist veryfit world famous he’s in the train station in new, york yo, yo ma, the cello, get the crazy video but I respect that, because to me that is exactly the kind of dna were trying to instill upon people that it would take to make some money. That’s your on for newark, I love, i, told vanessa, I’m, a hustler, i, love, I love to see somebody hustle I was seeing work a lot, I love that grind it’s fun to say:here’s. What happens is ben horowitz wrote a book called the hard things about hard things and check on the show notes. I have it here in the in my little man cave library here, but the in disguise for the coming collapse. Where and what he talks about and I love this, because it’s it’s kind of like the dirty business coaching secret of entrepreneurship, but ben horowitz is talking about what happens. Is he reads these self-help books and he says every time that he reads:a self-help book every time he reads when he says:i love the book. I love the concept, but that wasn’t the hard part. The hard part is when you, when the people who are you, know that you hired, they start to become entitled. Oh yeah, that’s that’s the worst. I’m sure you’ve never seen this, but it’s the people you hired become entitled and soul. He says every time. I read a management or self-help book. I find myself saying that’s fine, but that wasn’t really the hard thing about the situation. I’m tapping in my inter, inter inter joel osteen, isn’t setting a big hairy. Audacious goal is laying people off when you miss the big boy game is the hard thing, isn’t hiring great people.

The hard thing is when those great people right people develop a sense of entitlement and start demanding, unreasonable things. The hard thing isn’t setting up an organizational chart. The hard thing is getting people to communicate within the organizational chart that you’ve done. This is joel osteen. Having a breakdown, hard thing isn’t draining big. The hard thing is when waking up in the middle of the night in a cold, sweat when they drink turns into a nightmare. I want to I want to ask you this place. I got my story to go to the store, because it’s like every entrepreneur out there has has as live this out there, they their beards now they’re delivering this. For the first time tell the story. My friend, optometry offices and I have multiple doctors at work. For me, and so one day, one of the doctors came up and said:hey and I’ll give you my 30 day notice, my husband got transferred to another city and, since I want to stay married to him, I’m going to go, live in that city with him. Therefore, I’m not going to work for you and your inner dialogue is probably a 30 day notice either way. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you very much. You’ve been a great. You have a burn any business coaching bridges. If you guys are ever back in tolls. Please give me a holler if you can tell you’re thinking. Okay, I lost a good person, but fine at the doctor have a bicycle. I want to talk to you. Real quick I want to pressure you but I’m. Just telling you there is a woman. So that’s a little strange, hey I heard the news about dr. So-and-so is leaving in a month it’s an important situated.

That’s the best timing, but if I don’t get a raise and get my schedule, changed. Probably the best situation, I just told you I have an opportunity right now. When you only wants to know someone trying to put you in a bind, have I just saying, yeah, i, know and I know it’s it’s it’s a tough time for you anyway, but if I don’t get these two demand, then I’m going to have to put in my notice to okay and what did I do I smile, my biggest smile i, said you know what you deserve. A raise, your right good person you’re such a nice guy z that schedule change that you want i. Think it’s a great idea. In fact this implement both of those starting this week so glad we had this conversation. That was in my mind my inner dialogue was what you’re fired. I just can’t say it quite yet:lego in our use expired passport, I get it I just want to get it so I wouldn’t hire not one, but two new I’m, just too cuz I had two business coaching positions if they all had one person, but then when they top 10 best move yeah. What’s up just give us hours if you’re listening right now. Listen to this, this is nothing more, nothing less. She came in and I said you a month ago, when you came in and kind of press me up for that raisin schedule, I mean you obviously were happy with it. So remind me of you remind me of my grandchild. My grandfather I said that they were fired. I just couldn’t tell you but you’re fired, and if things are not just things are not working out.

Travis. What’s sweeter than this, he was able to what you mean by that do. I get to work outside is outside i, just upgraded you to a customer daisy to the key words. Were it’s just not working out now? She got into the reasons why obviously, but most employees would want to get into an argument with you-try to figure out why they’re getting fired there you go so that’s I think it’s pretty epic and the kids they can’t take away on that is it do what’s best for the filters what’s best for the business and it wasn’t best the business for me to fire her that day, because then we would have been one short for a while till I can get someone hired as a pastor of a church, pastor jesse for a diligent person who you and your husband started, church from nothing with a budget of $0 working all the time to grow at church with now has a thousand folks attending i. Have you ever had somebody take advantage of the fact that irreplaceable they just think that they, especially when you first come on on to a team of people or you plant a church from scratch. Everybody thinks that they had the business coaching answer for how the culture should be and what we should be going on and they hold you hostage I’m going to do this work. If you’ll, do it my way, I’m going to do this work, if you’ll keep me I’m going to eat at it, it’s a constant. It’s a constant battle, help your pastor out there that says:i just don’t want to fire anybody, because christ would forgive somebody me moses, killed a man and got put in charge of many men right, I mean david. Have some pho pause, I mean everybody who is without sin, I mean what the person is struggling with. That yes well I think that there are things in people that we can deal with it, and there are deal breakers just like in every relationship and whenever you find out that there’s a deal-breaker, you got to go for it, I liked it I like to I like to talk about it. In this regard, cuz I grew up in a church, and my older sister was 5 years ahead of me. So there were other kids pastors other youth pastors that were her kids faster than her password and then I came along and I had kids pastors and use password.

Now, when she came along every single kidz, pastor and youth pastor that she had was very bad at their job and they were holding everyone hi when we come back from the break I want you to share the rest of the story, because how do you manage a team of people that might be holding you business coaching hostage when you are, in fact, the leader of the business stay 2, no broadcasting for this saturday verse and the thrive 15.Com world headquarters. It’s not the right time show welcome back to the conversation as if I have time show on your radio and podcast download everybody tuning into the show for the first time. What are the things that we like to do on? The show is like to gather people that have already made mistakes. People have already wow wow wubbzy. Are you getting crazy over there on the sound effects there? Is it just got over the first time we like to do is one doctor’s. He likes to queue up random, michael, jackson sound effects just to see if I’m, actually listening to the monitor speakers, you don’t know who have gone where you want to go right, because you can either learn from mentors or mistakes and so pastor jesse, pastor, pastor, jesse gibson a her and her husband have grown a church from 0 people to north of a thousand people and you’ve dealt with when employees or business coaching teammates are holding you hostage, and somebody out there is listening. Who’s. Listening is a pastor of a church, and you can relate to this because you have a very, very talented person who understands that there are.

They are quote, unquote, irreplaceable and so they’re asked to ask for unreasonable thing. So pastor jesse back to your story about people who were once reasonable now requesting a reasonable things. It’s not reasonable and kind of holding you hostage as the leader of the church that my sister, when she was 5 years older than me, had kids pastor to pastor that weren’t so great at their job and then I came along and other guys were in those spots in the same church. So forever I will be grateful because I had this amazing experience in my kids pastors and in my youth pastors and my sister kind of looks at man gets really ticked off and says:i can’t believe you got those guys and I got this about it all the time, because it’s like thank god that they were replaced, and so, when we’re dealing with it in church, there is a time and obviously you don’t want to cut off your nose to spite your face. But there is a time and they’ll just stay there and stay there and stay there and they’ll be asking for things and asking for things. So what we’ll do is go ahead and release them into their destiny, because obviously they are not happy working at our church at this point, as it will go ahead and just like release them out there and then immediately. We want to make sure that that department looks amazing, so we’ll add something incredible:i never want to put a business coaching guest on a situation where you ever feel like I’m asking you. What got your question so I’m not going to do that, but I want to see this up. Matthew 25:14 through 13 I know you’ve memorized the entire bible when he went to college with it’s the parable of the talents and the parable of the talents as I recall.

This is how I read it as a non packer, just as a person to attend to church I read it I thought to myself. Oh no. It seems as though again in the bible at the day, they kind of the bible god share stories and he’s trying to demonstrate a point, but it’s it’s somebody who was given talents giving given certain things and they did not, invest it wisely. And can you tell her that that that story could injure somebody up there listening who’s struggling with this idea in the bible? It’s very clear, i, just I get I I’m, not asking to quote word for word this:the parable of the talents. But what is that story about overall I mean the concept of this overall there’s an owner who had who hands out talents or coins will say to these different people that work for him, and he says here to one i:don’t remember the numbers off the top of my head. Give to and went to. One will give five into another will give 10 and then I want you to go see what you can do with towns that you have and then they took them and some of them use them and because they use them, they didn’t they use them wisely. They came back and they said we won. We did great everything is booming and the owner said. Well, then, because you’re you did that I’m going to give you more. But then there was this one guy and you don’t want to be that guy and he just buried it under the ground, because he was so afraid. I don’t know of what the owner would think of him. If he didn’t wind up losing of not pushing for i, don’t know what he was afraid of what he was afraid and he might have been a little business coaching lazy, so you just put it under the ground and he buried it and whenever he came back to the owner, the owner, who is obviously got in the story, said I’m going to take what you had and I’m going to give it to the guy who went to war z, I’m, going to read matthew 25 21 through 30, so you can go ahead and pack a lunch here, bummer it to you and I’d like for you to break this down from your perspective as a business guy, he wants his master said to him. Well done good and faithful servant. You’ve been faithful over a little I will set you over much enter into the joy of the master, and he also said who had the two talents came forward. Saying master you delivered to me to talents here. I have made two towns more his mattress at the well done. Good and faithful servant.

You have been faithful over little I will set you over much enter into the joy of your master. He also who had received the one. Talent came for ticketmaster I knew you’d, be a hard man reaping where you did not sell and gavin. Where you scattered no seats, I was afraid, I went and head your talent in the ground is pastor guess he said here you have what is yours, but his master answered him you wicked and slothful servant. Do you knew that I reap where I have not sown and gather where I scattered no seed? Then you ought to have invested my money with the bankers and it might coming. I should have received what was my own interest so take the talent from him, and so I take the town from him and give it to him. Who has the 10 talent for to me or forward to everyone who has will more be given, and he will have an abundance book for the one who has not even what he has will be taken away and cast the worthless servant into the outer darkness. The darkness hayward fight your fire and cast of worth of 7 into the darkness and that place that will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. Z review out, you know the business coaching password. What does it mean? The world of business is business. Well, we are all if you own a business or the master, and you are in that guy’s rolls and that’s exactly what we do is an employee does. Well, we promote them as an employee does well, we give them more money. You know my managers didn’t start off being my managers. They work their way up to the managers. Okay, and so that’s. That is a principle that is used in every business in every day. There’s nothing in there to that. I wanted to really keep your listing out there and you own. A business I want to really speak this over your nadia’s. Is that the master wasn’t the nicest guys he was in a good leader in some regards to master. Wasn’t the nicest of business coaching guys yes and I’m, telling you if you want to be the best leader and and have your people to once german said I was i? Was in fear, I saw the way you you know where you live and I was fearful. You know, and if you’re living out there you’re not being the best leader and you’re, not loving your people and you’re, not being a good example to them. What you want them to look like to you, then I would encourage you to do that. So it’s it’s! It’s not that the masters fault, but he did have some computer. He didn’t contribute to that situation. So, if you’re not being a good leader-and you expect your people to be good employees, you might have to rethink that little bitch story about adam and eve. So you think it’s just a random story. That’s not true! That’s just kind of a lot of people do believe it to be literal from the tree

Eve. Eve mystery. If you do I’m kicking you out of the garden but pastor jesse wind, how did eat from the fruit he wasn’t supposed to eat from and eve did eat from the fruit she wasn’t supposed to eat from god, kicked them out and i. Don’t recall, god inspiring the people to write down enormous amount of verses are articulating that god then felt guilty or not a good leader. That’s what’s best for the entire place, not just end the end. God is a good leader. I mean as a as a pastor of a church have to do what’s best for the church. What’s best for the congregation not was just best for one person that wants to do their thing. All the time do what’s best for your brand. Can you explain to me how doing what? What is best for your brand am I might not even feel like the best thing to do for you right now, as the owner and I’ll leave entire back into the stuff we just went over and that will come to mind when we were going over. That is the thought of over-delivering you’ll, soon be over paid, come on, pauline hill said delivered soon be over paid, and that ties into you know that the best thing you can do most selfish thing you can do as a business owner as a pastor is whoever is over deliver to your people. In your clients, they’re going to be wild and then they’re going to become apostles of your church or your business coaching program and they’re going to spread the word in the people that don’t do that who deliver last in his expect, not good it works. It works the same way. The tree. Will you talk to me about pruning for a second I cuz tree pruning to bring them my wife, just pruned are magnolia tree up front. I was a little bit alarmed by how much I put their tree was nude. Who was a virtuous female tree, and now it wasn’t it i. Just I was at the tigers and bears. Oh, my routing is, when you remove part of the plant to get it to grow, community stimulated to produce more for the next year, the next growing season. So it seems kind of weird it’s like this and like that limbs off to get it to produce more fruit. Yes, that’s. That is the concept and it works, and that’s why people bruise and we come back and talk about optimizing your website without flying to prune your website, remove the things that don’t work, but you spent a lot of time on things. You’ve invested a lot of time on that, don’t work, I mean we’ve got to help you get to the top of the google search engine stages of drive. Time show on your radio we’re talkin search engine optimization when we return