The pattern is entirely predictable be the subject rats, bugs, bacteria, fungi<quoted text>

What was strange was how the rat "society" broke down so completely.. Even though there was plenty of food, when the population reached a certain tipping point, the rats began to kill and eat one another. There were some mating irregularities as well.

<quoted text> What was strange was how the rat "society" broke down so completely..Even though there was plenty of food, when the population reached a certain tipping point, the rats began to kill and eat one another.There were some mating irregularities as well.

I am not in a funk and I doubt that many other people, at least in this country, are in one. I also doubt that fruit flies, yeast, or rats will be much of a predictor as to what happens to humans. Sorry, but this sounds like a lot of doomsday fear mongering without the evidence to back it up.

Yes , I believe the claim. There are over 280,000 workers in theVA. In all organizations there are lazy incompetent clock riderswho will falsify paperwork to keep from having to work or to cover up their incompetent mistakes or omissions. There are worthless doctors just likethere are worthless people in any profession. I believe the director is doing the best he can do with available resources.

waco 1954 wrote:

TSF do you think there is any validity to the claims about the VA that just surfaced regarding letting veterans die? Real, or political?

The evidence is overwhelming. The result is the same with any biological system on which the experiment is tested. Intelligence to change the experimental conditions is the only advantage humans have that would suggest a different outcome for humans. Ignorant denial of facts because we do not like to hear them shows a lack of intelligence. If there is a human predominance of that lack, there is the proof that humans are no exception. Only if everyone thinks like you are we doomed.

Red Square wrote:

I am not in a funk and I doubt that many other people, at least in this country, are in one. I also doubt that fruit flies, yeast, or rats will be much of a predictor as to what happens to humans. Sorry, but this sounds like a lot of doomsday fear mongering without the evidence to back it up.

I am not in a funk and I doubt that many other people, at least in this country, are in one. I also doubt that fruit flies, yeast, or rats will be much of a predictor as to what happens to humans. Sorry, but this sounds like a lot of doomsday fear mongering without the evidence to back it up.

No "doomsday".Who mentioned that? Main study was regarding overpopulation.

Red Square mystifies. Won't vote. Rich, powerful people "allow" us to vote, to insure some degree of domestic tranquility. Some would say, gives the average person the feeling that he/she actually has a small degree of influence over larger events. A sham, a sop to mollify the "masses"?

Hard to believe a woman is being executed because she is a Christian. Maybe now, the true level of animosity that Muslims feel for Christians is being amply demonstrated to the world. That woman has real belief in Christ.They will kill her for that. Astounding.

The evidence is overwhelming. The result is the same with any biological systemon which the experiment is tested. Intelligence to change the experimental conditions is the only advantage humans have that would suggest a different outcome for humans. Ignorant denial of facts because we do not like to hear them shows a lack of intelligence. If there is a human predominance of that lack, there is the proof that humans are no exception. Only if everyone thinks like you are we doomed.<quoted text>

That means this experiment would have to be tested on every biologicalsystem--I doubt that has happened. There are likely many populationsthat have not followed this model--the cockroach for instance. Plus theones you mentioned seem to be in closed systems under experimentalconditions, not real world ones. So I really don't see any particularreason to be convinced by all this. Might there be some temporaryproblems with human population growth? Could be. Are we necessarilyheaded for extinction--I doubt it. It's easy to make long term predictions,harder to see if they will come true.

Red Square mystifies.Won't vote.Rich, powerful people "allow" us to vote, to insure some degree of domestic tranquility.Some would say, gives the average person the feeling that he/she actually has a small degree of influence over larger events.A sham, a sop to mollify the "masses"?

Almost half the population doesn't vote. You have a rightto vote, no matter what rich people allow. But I do agreethat the average voter doesn't have a lot of influence overevents and that the rich have more power than the middleclass or poor do.

Humans are a relatively new development on Earth having been here only around 2 million years. If we last another 2 million years, we will still be a short lived species here compared to other species like the cock roach which has been here hundreds of millions of years. Centuries are a blink in the eye of time . So you personally need not worry since we are still in the exponential growth phase with slight leveling just now beginning to happen.Numbers: human population took 2 million years to reach 1 billion in 1802. Only 125 years later in 1927 the human population reached 2 billion. Only 33 years after that , our population reached 3 billion. in 1960. Only 27 years after that our population nearly doubled reaching 5 billion in 1987, only 12 years after that human population reached 6 billion in 1999, only 13 years after that our population reached 7 billion in 2012. So you see exponential growth with a slight leveling in the rate of growth. When you see the growth stop then in a few decades, you will see the precipitous drop in human population to near zero or even eventually to zero. Don't worry. It probably will not happen in our lifetimes., but it will happen.

Red Square wrote:

<quoted text>Well if the ultimate outcome might be extinction, thatsounds pretty doomsday to me. People have beenpredicting all kinds of doomsday scenarios for centuries,and we're still here.

Look what Paul Ryan and republicans are doing to the VA. What could go wrong?

Budget Panel Eyes End to VA Care for 1.3 Million Vets

The House Budget Committee, chaired by Rep. Paul Ryan (R-Wis.), has told a veterans' group it is studying a plan to save $6 billion annually in VA health care costs by cancelling enrollment of any veteran who doesn't have a service-related medical condition and is not poor.

Committee Republicans, searching for ways to curb federal deficits and rein in galloping VA costs, are targeting 1.3 million veterans who claim priority group 7 or 8 status and have access to VA care.

Priority group 8 veterans have no service-connected disabilities and annual incomes, or net worth, that exceed VA means-test thresholds and VA "geographic income" thresholds, which are set by family size.

Priority Group 7 veterans also have no service-connected disabilities and their incomes are above the means-test thresholds. But their incomes or net worth fall below the geographic index. In other words, because of where they live, in high cost areas, they likely struggle financially.

Joseph Violante, national legislative director for Disabled American Veterans, said he first learned of the committee's interest in possibly narrowing access to VA clinics and hospitals from a DAV member from Wisconsin, chairman Ryan's home state

waco 1954 wrote:

TSF do you think there is any validity to the claims about the VA that just surfaced regarding letting veterans die? Real, or political?

One of the crusaders, Raymond of Aguiles, boasts of this incredible cruelty:

Wonderful sights were to be seen. Some of our men (and this was more merciful) cut off the heads of their enemies; others shot them with arrows, so that they fell from the towers; others tortured them longer by casting them into flames. Piles of heads, hands and feet were to be seen in the streets of the city. It was necessary to pick one's way over the bodies of men and horses. But these were small matters compared to what happened at the Temple of Solomon, a place where religious services are normally chanted ... in the temple and the porch of Solomon, men rode in blood up to their knees and bridle reins.7

Monks of War, researcher Desmond Seward narrates the events of these tragic days:

Jerusalem was stormed in July 1099. The rabid ferocity of its sack showed just how little the Church had succeeded in Christianizing atavistic instincts. The entire population of the Holy City was put to the sword, Jews as well as Moslems, 70,000 men, women and children perished in a holocaust, which raged for three days. In places men waded in blood up to their ankles and horsemen were splashed by it as they rode through the streets.8

According to another historical source, the number of Muslims pitilessly slaughtered was 40,000.9 Whatever the actual number of the dead, what the crusaders committed in the Holy Land has gone down in history as an example of matchless barbarism

No excuse, just facts.

waco 1954 wrote:

Hard to believe a woman is being executed because she is a Christian.Maybe now, the true level of animosity that Muslims feel for Christians is being amply demonstrated to the world.That woman has real belief in Christ.They will kill her for that.Astounding.

Hard to believe a woman is being executed because she is a Christian.Maybe now, the true level of animosity that Muslims feel for Christians is being amply demonstrated to the world.That woman has real belief in Christ.They will kill her for that.Astounding.

That is the reality of a Theoracy in action. Something that the Christian right would love to see happen here with permission to execute all Muslims in the same fashion. Better keep all religion out of govenment. This is the result.

Humans are a relatively new development on Earth having been here only around 2 million years. If we last another 2 million years, we will still be a short lived species here compared to other species like the cock roach which has been here hundreds of millions of years. Centuries are a blink in the eye of time . So you personally need not worry since we are still in the exponential growth phase with slight leveling just now beginning to happen.Numbers: human population took 2 million years to reach 1 billion in 1802. Only 125 years later in 1927 the human population reached 2 billion. Only 33 years after that , our population reached 3 billion. in 1960. Only 27 years after that our population nearly doubled reaching 5 billion in 1987, only 12 years after that human population reached 6 billion in 1999, only 13 years after that our population reached 7 billion in 2012. So you see exponential growth with a slight leveling in the rate of growth. When you see the growth stop then in a few decades, you will see the precipitous drop in human population to near zero or even eventually to zero. Don't worry. It probably will not happen in our lifetimes., but it will happen.<quoted text>

It's true that we have nothing to worry about, as these projectionsare very far in time. So we will have no way of knowing whetherthey will turn out to be true or not. Projecting things into the futurefor millions of years seems a rather questionable enterprise.

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