"Farms in the UK rely on fruit and vegetable pickers from the EuropeanUnion. But this summer theyre staying away, and the harvest will behit

"In the wake of an ocean of writing linking Brexit to the zeitgeistyDunkirk spirit, heres one more martial metaphor. Self-evidently, thisis the phoney war stage of the process. Negotiations have barelystarted; the prime minister is on holiday. Most importantly, thefragile tangle of threads that defines what passes for Britainseconomic wellbeing -- that mixture of affordable essentials, freelyavailable credit and dependable house prices which ensures no one getstoo uppity about stagnating wages -- just about remains intact.Meanwhile, ministers -- and Labour politicians -- talk about thefundamentals of leaving the European Union as if we can push Brusselsin any direction we fancy and freely choose no end of measures to easeour passage out.

"The recent noise about freedom of movement is a case in point. If thegovernment has a coherent position, it seems to be that migration fromthe EU under current rules will end in 2019, but also carry on, with-- according to the home secretary, anyway -- the proviso that duringan 'implementation phase' of up to four years, people from the EU willsimply have to add their names to a national register. Thus, a greathuman army which keeps so much of Britains economy ticking over willstill be available, just as long as the right arrangements are put inplace.

"This is, of course, somewhat less than credible, as evidenced by amounting crisis that has yet to turn critical but is bubbling awayacross the country. At the very least, we are fundamentally changingthe basis on which people can live and work in the UK, swappingresidence as a right for a much more uncertain system dependent onpolitical caprice.

"If you wanted to be more dramatic, you might say that the 2016European referendum in effect put a huge neon sign over Britain,saying, 'Foreigners not welcome'. And to make matters worse, the valueof sterling is making coming here even less attractive.

" 'The perception from overseas is we are xenophobic, were racist,and the pound has plummeted too. Weve gone with Brexit and that makesus look unfriendly.' Those are the words of John Hardman, director ofHops Labour Solutions, which supplies about 12,000 workers a year tofood-growers. He reckons that when it comes to 'food-picking jobs inagriculture -- which means everything from strawberries to brusselssprouts', there is currently a Brexit-related shortfall of about 20%,which chimes with recent surveys by the National Farmers Union."https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/aug/05/brexit-uk-food-industry-eu-fruit-veg-pickers

And even if we decided one way or another to stay in, the damage hasalready been done. Those pickers from the EU will likely stay away foryears to come, irrespective of what kind of -- or any -- Brexitthere is. Until at least signs appear that the natives are friendly.

Post by MMSummary: A crisis is mounting."Farms in the UK rely on fruit and vegetable pickers from the EuropeanUnion. But this summer they’re staying away, and the harvest will behit

Will it? Where's the evidence? If it will, though, it's becausefarmers won't pay them an attractive rate. It's called supply and demand.

Post by MM"In the wake of an ocean of writing linking Brexit to the zeitgeistyDunkirk spirit, here’s one more martial metaphor. Self-evidently, thisis the phoney war stage of the process. Negotiations have barelystarted; the prime minister is on holiday. Most importantly, thefragile tangle of threads that defines what passes for Britain’seconomic wellbeing -- that mixture of affordable essentials, freelyavailable credit and dependable house prices which ensures no one getstoo uppity about stagnating wages -- just about remains intact.Meanwhile, ministers -- and Labour politicians -- talk about thefundamentals of leaving the European Union as if we can push Brusselsin any direction we fancy and freely choose no end of measures to easeour passage out.

Do they?

Post by MM"The recent noise about freedom of movement is a case in point.

Is it?

Post by MMIf thegovernment has a coherent position, it seems to be that migration fromthe EU under current rules will end in 2019, but also carry on, with-- according to the home secretary, anyway -- the proviso that duringan 'implementation phase' of up to four years, people from the EU willsimply have to add their names to a national register. Thus, a greathuman army which keeps so much of Britain’s economy ticking over willstill be available, just as long as the right arrangements are put inplace."This is, of course, somewhat less than credible, as evidenced by amounting crisis that has yet to turn critical but is bubbling awayacross the country. At the very least, we are fundamentally changingthe basis on which people can live and work in the UK, swappingresidence as a right for a much more uncertain system dependent onpolitical caprice.

Agricultural work is seasonal. Most of those from the EU come to workfor the season. They don't need to acquire rights of residence, just awork permit.

... which I don't, thank you - Project Fear is dramatic enough as it is.

Post by MMyou might say that the 2016European referendum in effect put a huge neon sign over Britain,saying, 'Foreigners not welcome'.

Yes, dear.

Post by MMAnd to make matters worse, the valueof sterling is making coming here even less attractive.

Then we have to pay them enough so that it is attractive enough. It'sbasic economics.

Post by MM" 'The perception from overseas is we are xenophobic, we’re racist,and the pound has plummeted too. We’ve gone with Brexit and that makesus look unfriendly.' Those are the words of John Hardman, director ofHops Labour Solutions, which supplies about 12,000 workers a year tofood-growers. He reckons that when it comes to 'food-picking jobs inagriculture -- which means everything from strawberries to brusselssprouts', there is currently a Brexit-related shortfall of about 20%,which chimes with recent surveys by the National Farmers Union."https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/aug/05/brexit-uk-food-industry-eu-fruit-veg-pickers

Then he needs to pay them more, not keep wages where they were and moanthat he can't attract the workers.

Post by MMAnd even if we decided one way or another to stay in, the damage hasalready been done. Those pickers from the EU will likely stay away foryears to come, irrespective of what kind of -- or any -- Brexitthere is. Until at least signs appear that the natives are friendly.

They'll come if the wages are right.

Post by MM---This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.http://www.avg.com

Post by MMSummary: A crisis is mounting."Farms in the UK rely on fruit and vegetable pickers from the EuropeanUnion. But this summer they’re staying away, and the harvest will behit"In the wake of an ocean of writing linking Brexit to the zeitgeistyDunkirk spirit, here’s one more martial metaphor. Self-evidently, thisis the phoney war stage of the process. Negotiations have barelystarted; the prime minister is on holiday. Most importantly, thefragile tangle of threads that defines what passes for Britain’seconomic wellbeing -- that mixture of affordable essentials, freelyavailable credit and dependable house prices which ensures no one getstoo uppity about stagnating wages -- just about remains intact.Meanwhile, ministers -- and Labour politicians -- talk about thefundamentals of leaving the European Union as if we can push Brusselsin any direction we fancy and freely choose no end of measures to easeour passage out."The recent noise about freedom of movement is a case in point. If thegovernment has a coherent position, it seems to be that migration fromthe EU under current rules will end in 2019, but also carry on, with-- according to the home secretary, anyway -- the proviso that duringan 'implementation phase' of up to four years, people from the EU willsimply have to add their names to a national register. Thus, a greathuman army which keeps so much of Britain’s economy ticking over willstill be available, just as long as the right arrangements are put inplace."This is, of course, somewhat less than credible, as evidenced by amounting crisis that has yet to turn critical but is bubbling awayacross the country. At the very least, we are fundamentally changingthe basis on which people can live and work in the UK, swappingresidence as a right for a much more uncertain system dependent onpolitical caprice."If you wanted to be more dramatic, you might say that the 2016European referendum in effect put a huge neon sign over Britain,saying, 'Foreigners not welcome'. And to make matters worse, the valueof sterling is making coming here even less attractive." 'The perception from overseas is we are xenophobic, we’re racist,and the pound has plummeted too. We’ve gone with Brexit and that makesus look unfriendly.' Those are the words of John Hardman, director ofHops Labour Solutions, which supplies about 12,000 workers a year tofood-growers. He reckons that when it comes to 'food-picking jobs inagriculture -- which means everything from strawberries to brusselssprouts', there is currently a Brexit-related shortfall of about 20%,which chimes with recent surveys by the National Farmers Union."https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/aug/05/brexit-uk-food-industry-eu-fruit-veg-pickersAnd even if we decided one way or another to stay in, the damage hasalready been done. Those pickers from the EU will likely stay away foryears to come, irrespective of what kind of -- or any -- Brexitthere is. Until at least signs appear that the natives are friendly.MM

Even when I was a teenager (er long ago) there were pick your own strawberry farms, because the low cost labour to pick them scarce.

There might be some wastage, but the likeliest result is just higher prices in the shops - well probably already is because things like salad veg from Spain have to be paid for in 10% more expensive Euros.

Even when I was a teenager (er long ago) there were pick your ownstrawberry farms, because the low cost labour to pick them scarce.There might be some wastage, but the likeliest result is just higherprices in the shops - well probably already is because things like saladveg from Spain have to be paid for in 10% more expensive Euros.

The price of veg around the world is strange, and seems to bear norelationship to costs

One of the things that gets me is the ludicrously high price of green beansat 4 pound per kilo

Even when I was a teenager (er long ago) there were pick your ownstrawberry farms, because the low cost labour to pick them scarce.There might be some wastage, but the likeliest result is just higherprices in the shops - well probably already is because things like saladveg from Spain have to be paid for in 10% more expensive Euros.

The price of veg around the world is strange, and seems to bear norelationship to costsOne of the things that gets me is the ludicrously high price of green beansat 4 pound per kilogo to Spain and they are a quarter of that pricebut the cauliflowers are three time the price of the UKtim

Cost of transport usually. Green beans do grow in the UK, but a lot better in Spain.

Cauliflowers grow in both places, but we have had a wet summer, so cauliflowers here will have grown very well - so good supply and ergo low prices, whereas Spain has had a drought, which is bad for cauliflowers, so fewer smaller cauliflowers and so prices will be high. They are costly to transport and tend not to travel too well leading to high wastage otherwise the price would even out as it has say for salmon where a combination of disease in the stock and the fall in the pound has lead to big price rises in the UK.

Even when I was a teenager (er long ago) there were pick your ownstrawberry farms, because the low cost labour to pick them scarce.There might be some wastage, but the likeliest result is just higherprices in the shops - well probably already is because things like saladveg from Spain have to be paid for in 10% more expensive Euros.

The price of veg around the world is strange, and seems to bear norelationship to costsOne of the things that gets me is the ludicrously high price of green beansat 4 pound per kilogo to Spain and they are a quarter of that pricebut the cauliflowers are three time the price of the UKtim

Cost of transport usually. Green beans do grow in the UK, but a lot better in Spain.Cauliflowers grow in both places, but we have had a wet summer, so cauliflowers here will have grown very well - so good supply and ergo low prices, whereas Spain has had a drought, which is bad for cauliflowers, so fewer smaller cauliflowers and so prices will be high. They are costly to transport and tend not to travel too well leading to high wastage otherwise the price would even out as it has say for salmon where a combination of disease in the stock and the fall in the pound has lead to big price rises in the UK.

Are you trying to tell us the heresy that there are factors other thanBrexit?

Even when I was a teenager (er long ago) there were pick your ownstrawberry farms, because the low cost labour to pick them scarce.There might be some wastage, but the likeliest result is just higherprices in the shops - well probably already is because things like saladveg from Spain have to be paid for in 10% more expensive Euros.

The price of veg around the world is strange, and seems to bear norelationship to costsOne of the things that gets me is the ludicrously high price of green beansat 4 pound per kilogo to Spain and they are a quarter of that pricebut the cauliflowers are three time the price of the UKtim

Cost of transport usually. Green beans do grow in the UK, but a lot better in Spain.Cauliflowers grow in both places, but we have had a wet summer, so cauliflowers here will have grown very well - so good supply and ergo low prices, whereas Spain has had a drought, which is bad for cauliflowers, so fewer smaller cauliflowers and so prices will be high. They are costly to transport and tend not to travel too well leading to high wastage otherwise the price would even out as it has say for salmon where a combination of disease in the stock and the fall in the pound has lead to big price rises in the UK.

Are you trying to tell us the heresy that there are factors other thanBrexit?

Of course there are factors other than Brexit, it is just that at the moment the pound's fall is a very big factor. Fortunately for UK consumers the price of crude oil has slipped so petrol prices have actually fallen because the price in dollars has fallen more than the price of the dollars it is priced in.

Even when I was a teenager (er long ago) there were pick your ownstrawberry farms, because the low cost labour to pick them scarce.There might be some wastage, but the likeliest result is just higherprices in the shops - well probably already is because things like saladveg from Spain have to be paid for in 10% more expensive Euros.

The price of veg around the world is strange, and seems to bear norelationship to costsOne of the things that gets me is the ludicrously high price of green beansat 4 pound per kilogo to Spain and they are a quarter of that pricebut the cauliflowers are three time the price of the UKtim

Cost of transport usually. Green beans do grow in the UK, but a lot better in Spain.Cauliflowers grow in both places, but we have had a wet summer, so cauliflowers here will have grown very well - so good supply and ergo low prices, whereas Spain has had a drought, which is bad for cauliflowers, so fewer smaller cauliflowers and so prices will be high. They are costly to transport and tend not to travel too well leading to high wastage otherwise the price would even out as it has say for salmon where a combination of disease in the stock and the fall in the pound has lead to big price rises in the UK.

Are you trying to tell us the heresy that there are factors other thanBrexit?

Of course there are factors other than Brexit, it is just that at the moment the pound's fall is a very big factor. Fortunately for UK consumers the price of crude oil has slipped so petrol prices have actually fallen because the price in dollars has fallen more than the price of the dollars it is priced in.

Tell us more about salmon then. You see, nearly all of what we consumehere in the UK is produced here. Indeed, we export quite a lot.

So, how does the pound falling affect the price here where no foreignexchange is involved.

Of course there are factors other than Brexit, it is just that at the moment the pound's fall is a very big factor. Fortunately for UK consumers the price of crude oil has slipped so petrol prices have actually fallen because the price in dollars has fallen more than the price of the dollars it is priced in.

Tell us more about salmon then. You see, nearly all of what we consumehere in the UK is produced here. Indeed, we export quite a lot.So, how does the pound falling affect the price here where no foreignexchange is involved.

There is no foreign exchange involved if the fish is farmed or caught in the UK and then sold here.

However salmon can be shipped fresh, frozen, smoked or even tinned and at ~£10 per kilo the transport cost will not be that great a proportion of the price, unlike say potatoes (say 25p/kg).

So Tavish McFish, seeing he can get 10% or more extra if his salmon is shipped to continental Europe or even the USA arranges to do so. The result is that if you want to buy salmon in the UK it will (and does) cost you 10-20% more just because of the exchange rate situation. Factor in an unfortunate sea louse epidemic and rises of 30 to 40% in the shops are not uncommon...

Of course there are factors other than Brexit, it is just that at the moment the pound's fall is a very big factor. Fortunately for UK consumers the price of crude oil has slipped so petrol prices have actually fallen because the price in dollars has fallen more than the price of the dollars it is priced in.

Tell us more about salmon then. You see, nearly all of what we consumehere in the UK is produced here. Indeed, we export quite a lot.So, how does the pound falling affect the price here where no foreignexchange is involved.

There is no foreign exchange involved if the fish is farmed or caught in the UK and then sold here.However salmon can be shipped fresh, frozen, smoked or even tinned and at ~£10 per kilo the transport cost will not be that great a proportion of the price, unlike say potatoes (say 25p/kg).So Tavish McFish, seeing he can get 10% or more extra if his salmon is shipped to continental Europe or even the USA arranges to do so.

But he can't. If the pound has fallen by 10% against the Euro or the USDollar, his customers will pay 10% less in their own currency for hissalmon, but he will receive exactly the same amount in pounds as he everdid.

It's how it works.

The result is that if you want to buy salmon in the UK it will (anddoes) cost you 10-20% more just because of the exchange rate situation.Factor in an unfortunate sea louse epidemic and rises of 30 to 40% inthe shops are not uncommon...

Of course there are factors other than Brexit, it is just that at themoment the pound's fall is a very big factor. Fortunately for UKconsumers the price of crude oil has slipped so petrol prices haveactually fallen because the price in dollars has fallen more than theprice of the dollars it is priced in.

Tell us more about salmon then. You see, nearly all of what we consumehere in the UK is produced here. Indeed, we export quite a lot.So, how does the pound falling affect the price here where no foreignexchange is involved.

There is no foreign exchange involved if the fish is farmed or caught inthe UK and then sold here.However salmon can be shipped fresh, frozen, smoked or even tinned and at~£10 per kilo the transport cost will not be that great a proportion ofthe price, unlike say potatoes (say 25p/kg).So Tavish McFish, seeing he can get 10% or more extra if his salmon isshipped to continental Europe or even the USA arranges to do so.

But he can't. If the pound has fallen by 10% against the Euro or the USDollar, his customers will pay 10% less in their own currency for hissalmon, but he will receive exactly the same amount in pounds as he everdid.It's how it works.

no it's not

agricultural goods on the worldwide open market will be priced in dollars,or some other currency based upon the dominant production. The UK producescirca 10% of the world's salmon so will not be dominant enough to dictatethe world wholesale price.

So, if your exchange rate against that currency falls, the price of theseworld products will increase, even if you do produce them at home

Of course there are factors other than Brexit, it is just that at themoment the pound's fall is a very big factor. Fortunately for UKconsumers the price of crude oil has slipped so petrol prices haveactually fallen because the price in dollars has fallen more than theprice of the dollars it is priced in.

Tell us more about salmon then. You see, nearly all of what we consumehere in the UK is produced here. Indeed, we export quite a lot.So, how does the pound falling affect the price here where no foreignexchange is involved.

There is no foreign exchange involved if the fish is farmed or caught inthe UK and then sold here.However salmon can be shipped fresh, frozen, smoked or even tinned and at~£10 per kilo the transport cost will not be that great a proportion ofthe price, unlike say potatoes (say 25p/kg).So Tavish McFish, seeing he can get 10% or more extra if his salmon isshipped to continental Europe or even the USA arranges to do so.

But he can't. If the pound has fallen by 10% against the Euro or the USDollar, his customers will pay 10% less in their own currency for hissalmon, but he will receive exactly the same amount in pounds as he everdid.

No they will pay the same (very nearly) and he will get 11% more in pounds (>20% more when the pound was at its lowest).

no it's notagricultural goods on the worldwide open market will be priced in dollars,or some other currency based upon the dominant production. The UK producescirca 10% of the world's salmon so will not be dominant enough to dictatethe world wholesale price.So, if your exchange rate against that currency falls, the price of theseworld products will increase, even if you do produce them at hometim

Of course there are factors other than Brexit, it is just that at themoment the pound's fall is a very big factor. Fortunately for UKconsumers the price of crude oil has slipped so petrol prices haveactually fallen because the price in dollars has fallen more than theprice of the dollars it is priced in.

Tell us more about salmon then. You see, nearly all of what we consumehere in the UK is produced here. Indeed, we export quite a lot.So, how does the pound falling affect the price here where no foreignexchange is involved.

There is no foreign exchange involved if the fish is farmed or caught inthe UK and then sold here.However salmon can be shipped fresh, frozen, smoked or even tinned and at~£10 per kilo the transport cost will not be that great a proportion ofthe price, unlike say potatoes (say 25p/kg).So Tavish McFish, seeing he can get 10% or more extra if his salmon isshipped to continental Europe or even the USA arranges to do so.

But he can't. If the pound has fallen by 10% against the Euro or the USDollar, his customers will pay 10% less in their own currency for hissalmon, but he will receive exactly the same amount in pounds as he everdid.

No they will pay the same (very nearly) and he will get 11% more in pounds (>20% more when the pound was at its lowest).

They will pay the same in pounds since that's what they've always paidin. Asking for 10% more in pounds looks like a 10% increase in pricethat may well be completely unacceptable.

no it's notagricultural goods on the worldwide open market will be priced in dollars,or some other currency based upon the dominant production. The UK producescirca 10% of the world's salmon so will not be dominant enough to dictatethe world wholesale price.So, if your exchange rate against that currency falls, the price of theseworld products will increase, even if you do produce them at hometim

Thanks Tim, maybe Norman should buy a copy ofhttp://www.dummies.com/education/economics/economics-for-dummies-cheat-sheet-uk-edition/BTW when do you think the pound will fall below the Euro?

I'm sorry, my crystal ball has a faulty USB socket.

If you know when (or even if) it will be, you could make your fortuneand you'd be daft not to.

Oh?I thought you didn't like "speculators", and now you're encouragingthem!

It was conditional on his knowing when or if the pound would achieveparity with the Euro. That wouldn't be speculating but investing.

So speculators are investors now?Why is that a bad thing?

It's not speculating or gambling if you know the outcome. If youdon't, it is.

Apart from knowing (in general terms) that we are going to leave the EU,the Brexiteers don't know any details of the outcome. I reckon thatmakes them speculators and gamblers, rather than, say, 'visionaries'.

Of course there are factors other than Brexit, it is just that at the moment the pound's fall is a very big factor. Fortunately for UK consumers the price of crude oil has slipped so petrol prices have actually fallen because the price in dollars has fallen more than the price of the dollars it is priced in.

Tell us more about salmon then. You see, nearly all of what we consumehere in the UK is produced here. Indeed, we export quite a lot.So, how does the pound falling affect the price here where no foreignexchange is involved.

There is no foreign exchange involved if the fish is farmed or caught in the UK and then sold here.However salmon can be shipped fresh, frozen, smoked or even tinned and at ~£10 per kilo the transport cost will not be that great a proportion of the price, unlike say potatoes (say 25p/kg).So Tavish McFish, seeing he can get 10% or more extra if his salmon is shipped to continental Europe or even the USA arranges to do so.

But he can't. If the pound has fallen by 10% against the Euro or the USDollar, his customers will pay 10% less in their own currency for hissalmon, but he will receive exactly the same amount in pounds as he everdid.It's how it works.The result is that if you want to buy salmon in the UK it will (anddoes) cost you 10-20% more just because of the exchange rate situation.Factor in an unfortunate sea louse epidemic and rises of 30 to 40% inthe shops are not uncommon...

Post by R. Mark ClaytonFactor in an unfortunate sea louse epidemic and rises of 30 to 40% in the shops are not uncommon...

Are you suggesting Brexit introduced the sea louse epidemic, and causedthe price of salmon to rise?

Not the sea louse problem, but the price, certainly. And smoked salmonis not the only product that has been affected by Brexit and theexchange rate, as millions of householders are now finding out. Evenpetrol is rising again.

Post by R. Mark ClaytonFactor in an unfortunate sea louse epidemic and rises of 30 to 40% in the shops are not uncommon...

Are you suggesting Brexit introduced the sea louse epidemic, and causedthe price of salmon to rise?

Not the sea louse problem, but the price, certainly. And smoked salmonis not the only product that has been affected by Brexit and theexchange rate, as millions of householders are now finding out. Evenpetrol is rising again.

Supply and demand mainly, though anything priced in dollars will beaffected by the pound-dollar exchange rate.

But do tell us how Brexit and the exchange rate affects the price ofsalmon which is produced here, priced in pounds and sold here in pounds.

Post by R. Mark ClaytonFactor in an unfortunate sea louse epidemic and rises of 30 to 40% inthe shops are not uncommon...

Are you suggesting Brexit introduced the sea louse epidemic, and causedthe price of salmon to rise?

Not the sea louse problem, but the price, certainly. And smoked salmonis not the only product that has been affected by Brexit and theexchange rate, as millions of householders are now finding out. Evenpetrol is rising again.

Supply and demand mainly, though anything priced in dollars will beaffected by the pound-dollar exchange rate.But do tell us how Brexit and the exchange rate affects the price ofsalmon which is produced here, priced in pounds and sold here in pounds.

because where the suppliers do have the option of selling overseas at thehigher price, it *does* bit up the price that people have to pay for homeconsumption

Post by R. Mark ClaytonFactor in an unfortunate sea louse epidemic and rises of 30 to 40%in the shops are not uncommon...

Are you suggesting Brexit introduced the sea louse epidemic, and causedthe price of salmon to rise?

Not the sea louse problem, but the price, certainly. And smoked salmonis not the only product that has been affected by Brexit and theexchange rate, as millions of householders are now finding out. Evenpetrol is rising again.

Supply and demand mainly, though anything priced in dollars will beaffected by the pound-dollar exchange rate.But do tell us how Brexit and the exchange rate affects the price ofsalmon which is produced here, priced in pounds and sold here in pounds.

because where the suppliers do have the option of selling overseas atthe higher price, it *does* bit up the price that people have to pay forhome consumption

That's straightforward supply and demand. It has nothing to do withBrexit or the exchange rate.

Post by R. Mark ClaytonFactor in an unfortunate sea louse epidemic and rises of 30 to 40% inthe shops are not uncommon...

Are you suggesting Brexit introduced the sea louse epidemic, and causedthe price of salmon to rise?

Not the sea louse problem, but the price, certainly. And smoked salmonis not the only product that has been affected by Brexit and theexchange rate, as millions of householders are now finding out. Evenpetrol is rising again.

Supply and demand mainly, though anything priced in dollars will beaffected by the pound-dollar exchange rate.But do tell us how Brexit and the exchange rate affects the price ofsalmon which is produced here, priced in pounds and sold here in pounds.

because where the suppliers do have the option of selling overseas at thehigher price, it *does* bit up the price that people have to pay for homeconsumption

That's straightforward supply and demand. It has nothing to do withBrexit or the exchange rate.

Brexit I agree

but it shows how the ER changes the local price of goods even though thosegoods are wholly produced at home.

If the world price for a tonne of potatoes is 100 Euro or 80 pounds

the local price the farmer charges is 80 pounds

if the ER changes and the world price at 100 Euro becomes 90 pounds, Hesells at home for 90 pounds

Even if his costs of production haven't gone up, the opportunity value has(and the cost of the alternative imported supply has). So that's the pricehe sells at

Post by R. Mark ClaytonFactor in an unfortunate sea louse epidemic and rises of 30 to40% in the shops are not uncommon...

Are you suggesting Brexit introduced the sea louse epidemic, and causedthe price of salmon to rise?

Not the sea louse problem, but the price, certainly. And smoked salmonis not the only product that has been affected by Brexit and theexchange rate, as millions of householders are now finding out. Evenpetrol is rising again.

Supply and demand mainly, though anything priced in dollars will beaffected by the pound-dollar exchange rate.But do tell us how Brexit and the exchange rate affects the price ofsalmon which is produced here, priced in pounds and sold here in pounds.

because where the suppliers do have the option of selling overseas atthe higher price, it *does* bit up the price that people have to payfor home consumption

That's straightforward supply and demand. It has nothing to do withBrexit or the exchange rate.

Brexit I agreebut it shows how the ER changes the local price of goods even thoughthose goods are wholly produced at home.If the world price for a tonne of potatoes is 100 Euro or 80 poundsthe local price the farmer charges is 80 poundsif the ER changes and the world price at 100 Euro becomes 90 pounds, Hesells at home for 90 poundsEven if his costs of production haven't gone up, the opportunity valuehas (and the cost of the alternative imported supply has). So that'sthe price he sells at

If it's what the market will bear, why hasn't he been selling at thatprice already?

But it isn't of course, because he's in competition with othersuppliers. If they continue to sell at £80, he won't be able to sellhis at £90. And a lot will because they don't have a ready export market.

Post by R. Mark ClaytonFactor in an unfortunate sea louse epidemic and rises of 30 to 40%in the shops are not uncommon...

Are you suggesting Brexit introduced the sea louse epidemic, and causedthe price of salmon to rise?

Not the sea louse problem, but the price, certainly. And smoked salmonis not the only product that has been affected by Brexit and theexchange rate, as millions of householders are now finding out. Evenpetrol is rising again.

Supply and demand mainly, though anything priced in dollars will beaffected by the pound-dollar exchange rate.But do tell us how Brexit and the exchange rate affects the price ofsalmon which is produced here, priced in pounds and sold here in pounds.

because where the suppliers do have the option of selling overseas atthe higher price, it *does* bit up the price that people have to payfor home consumption

That's straightforward supply and demand. It has nothing to do withBrexit or the exchange rate.

Brexit I agreebut it shows how the ER changes the local price of goods even thoughthose goods are wholly produced at home.If the world price for a tonne of potatoes is 100 Euro or 80 poundsthe local price the farmer charges is 80 poundsif the ER changes and the world price at 100 Euro becomes 90 pounds, Hesells at home for 90 poundsEven if his costs of production haven't gone up, the opportunity valuehas (and the cost of the alternative imported supply has). So that's theprice he sells at

If it's what the market will bear, why hasn't he been selling at thatprice already?

in the ROW it is

it's just the UK ER has made it more expensive here

and if we aren't a big enough market or supplier to be dominant, which withsalmon we are not, we just have to suck it up

Post by R. Mark ClaytonFactor in an unfortunate sea louse epidemic and rises of 30 to40% in the shops are not uncommon...

Are you suggesting Brexit introduced the sea louse epidemic, and causedthe price of salmon to rise?

Not the sea louse problem, but the price, certainly. And smoked salmonis not the only product that has been affected by Brexit and theexchange rate, as millions of householders are now finding out. Evenpetrol is rising again.

Supply and demand mainly, though anything priced in dollars willbe affected by the pound-dollar exchange rate.But do tell us how Brexit and the exchange rate affects the priceof salmon which is produced here, priced in pounds and sold herein pounds.

because where the suppliers do have the option of selling overseasat the higher price, it *does* bit up the price that people have topay for home consumption

That's straightforward supply and demand. It has nothing to do withBrexit or the exchange rate.

Brexit I agreebut it shows how the ER changes the local price of goods even thoughthose goods are wholly produced at home.If the world price for a tonne of potatoes is 100 Euro or 80 poundsthe local price the farmer charges is 80 poundsif the ER changes and the world price at 100 Euro becomes 90 pounds,He sells at home for 90 poundsEven if his costs of production haven't gone up, the opportunityvalue has (and the cost of the alternative imported supply has). Sothat's the price he sells at

If it's what the market will bear, why hasn't he been selling at thatprice already?

in the ROW it isit's just the UK ER has made it more expensive hereand if we aren't a big enough market or supplier to be dominant, whichwith salmon we are not, we just have to suck it up

No we don't. While there are domestic producers who do not export butonly sell in the UK, they will continue to sell at established UKprices. They are in competition with each other, so can't increasetheir prices unilaterally without losing substantial sales.

Similarly, those with an export market, if they wish to sell in the UK,will have to sell at established UK prices.

Post by R. Mark ClaytonFactor in an unfortunate sea louse epidemic and rises of 30 to40% in the shops are not uncommon...

Are you suggesting Brexit introduced the sea louse epidemic, and causedthe price of salmon to rise?

Not the sea louse problem, but the price, certainly. And smoked salmonis not the only product that has been affected by Brexit and theexchange rate, as millions of householders are now finding out. Evenpetrol is rising again.

Supply and demand mainly, though anything priced in dollars will beaffected by the pound-dollar exchange rate.But do tell us how Brexit and the exchange rate affects the price ofsalmon which is produced here, priced in pounds and sold here in pounds.

because where the suppliers do have the option of selling overseas atthe higher price, it *does* bit up the price that people have to payfor home consumption

That's straightforward supply and demand. It has nothing to do withBrexit or the exchange rate.

Brexit I agreebut it shows how the ER changes the local price of goods even thoughthose goods are wholly produced at home.If the world price for a tonne of potatoes is 100 Euro or 80 poundsthe local price the farmer charges is 80 poundsif the ER changes and the world price at 100 Euro becomes 90 pounds,He sells at home for 90 poundsEven if his costs of production haven't gone up, the opportunity valuehas (and the cost of the alternative imported supply has). So that'sthe price he sells at

If it's what the market will bear, why hasn't he been selling at thatprice already?

in the ROW it isit's just the UK ER has made it more expensive hereand if we aren't a big enough market or supplier to be dominant, whichwith salmon we are not, we just have to suck it up

No we don't. While there are domestic producers who do not export butonly sell in the UK, they will continue to sell at established UK

If you can find such a product

but in what world is there an agricultural product that UK farmers don'tlook to export at some point in the growing cycle?

we may not be self sufficient in food, but we also have a (relatively) shortgrowing season

I doubt that there is a crop that you can name where we don't have an excessat some point in the season

Post by R. Mark ClaytonFactor in an unfortunate sea louse epidemic and rises of 30to 40% in the shops are not uncommon...

Are you suggesting Brexit introduced the sea louse epidemic, and causedthe price of salmon to rise?

Not the sea louse problem, but the price, certainly. And smoked salmonis not the only product that has been affected by Brexit and theexchange rate, as millions of householders are now finding out. Evenpetrol is rising again.

Supply and demand mainly, though anything priced in dollars willbe affected by the pound-dollar exchange rate.But do tell us how Brexit and the exchange rate affects theprice of salmon which is produced here, priced in pounds andsold here in pounds.

because where the suppliers do have the option of sellingoverseas at the higher price, it *does* bit up the price thatpeople have to pay for home consumption

That's straightforward supply and demand. It has nothing to dowith Brexit or the exchange rate.

Brexit I agreebut it shows how the ER changes the local price of goods eventhough those goods are wholly produced at home.If the world price for a tonne of potatoes is 100 Euro or 80 poundsthe local price the farmer charges is 80 poundsif the ER changes and the world price at 100 Euro becomes 90pounds, He sells at home for 90 poundsEven if his costs of production haven't gone up, the opportunityvalue has (and the cost of the alternative imported supply has).So that's the price he sells at

If it's what the market will bear, why hasn't he been selling atthat price already?

in the ROW it isit's just the UK ER has made it more expensive hereand if we aren't a big enough market or supplier to be dominant,which with salmon we are not, we just have to suck it up

No we don't. While there are domestic producers who do not export butonly sell in the UK, they will continue to sell at established UK

If you can find such a productbut in what world is there an agricultural product that UK farmers don'tlook to export at some point in the growing cycle?

In any world where the producer can't supply domestic demand. Whyexport, with all the problems involved, when you have domestic demandexceeding your ability to supply?

Post by tim...we may not be self sufficient in food, but we also have a (relatively)short growing seasonI doubt that there is a crop that you can name where we don't have anexcess at some point in the season

An excess over what? Most crops can be stored. And most crops don'tmeet domestic demand. We produce only enough to feed 60% of the population.

Post by R. Mark ClaytonFactor in an unfortunate sea louse epidemic and rises of 30 to40% in the shops are not uncommon...

Are you suggesting Brexit introduced the sea louse epidemic, and causedthe price of salmon to rise?

Not the sea louse problem, but the price, certainly. And smoked salmonis not the only product that has been affected by Brexit and theexchange rate, as millions of householders are now finding out. Evenpetrol is rising again.

Supply and demand mainly, though anything priced in dollars willbe affected by the pound-dollar exchange rate.But do tell us how Brexit and the exchange rate affects the priceof salmon which is produced here, priced in pounds and sold herein pounds.

because where the suppliers do have the option of selling overseasat the higher price, it *does* bit up the price that people haveto pay for home consumption

That's straightforward supply and demand. It has nothing to dowith Brexit or the exchange rate.

Brexit I agreebut it shows how the ER changes the local price of goods even thoughthose goods are wholly produced at home.If the world price for a tonne of potatoes is 100 Euro or 80 poundsthe local price the farmer charges is 80 poundsif the ER changes and the world price at 100 Euro becomes 90pounds, He sells at home for 90 poundsEven if his costs of production haven't gone up, the opportunityvalue has (and the cost of the alternative imported supply has). Sothat's the price he sells at

If it's what the market will bear, why hasn't he been selling at thatprice already?

in the ROW it isit's just the UK ER has made it more expensive hereand if we aren't a big enough market or supplier to be dominant, whichwith salmon we are not, we just have to suck it up

No we don't. While there are domestic producers who do not export butonly sell in the UK, they will continue to sell at established UKprices. They are in competition with each other, so can't increasetheir prices unilaterally without losing substantial sales.Similarly, those with an export market, if they wish to sell in the UK,will have to sell at established UK prices.UK prices of UK produced goods are unaffected by exchange rates.

If there is a would market in UK reared salmon, then the exchange ratewill affect the UK price.

Currently the dominant cause of the upward price of salmon is the sea louse.

Post by tim...but it shows how the ER changes the local price of goods even thoughthose goods are wholly produced at home.If the world price for a tonne of potatoes is 100 Euro or 80 poundsthe local price the farmer charges is 80 poundsif the ER changes and the world price at 100 Euro becomes 90 pounds,He sells at home for 90 poundsEven if his costs of production haven't gone up, the opportunityvalue has (and the cost of the alternative imported supply has). Sothat's the price he sells at

If it's what the market will bear, why hasn't he been selling at thatprice already?

in the ROW it isit's just the UK ER has made it more expensive hereand if we aren't a big enough market or supplier to be dominant, whichwith salmon we are not, we just have to suck it up

No we don't. While there are domestic producers who do not export butonly sell in the UK, they will continue to sell at established UKprices. They are in competition with each other, so can't increasetheir prices unilaterally without losing substantial sales.

Once the exchange rate makes it favourable for them to export thenenough growers will do so that the law of supply and demand will driveup domestic prices too. Goods will be in short supply domestically.

If the exchange rate changed radically then *all* the goods would beexported if farmers could say double their income by doing so.

How short some peoples memories are! It was only a few months ago thatthere was a famine of courgettes and other warm climate fruits.

Post by tim...it's just the UK ER has made it more expensive hereand if we aren't a big enough market or supplier to be dominant,which with salmon we are not, we just have to suck it up

No we don't. While there are domestic producers who do not export butonly sell in the UK, they will continue to sell at established UKprices. They are in competition with each other, so can't increasetheir prices unilaterally without losing substantial sales.

Once the exchange rate makes it favourable for them to export thenenough growers will do so that the law of supply and demand will driveup domestic prices too. Goods will be in short supply domestically.If the exchange rate changed radically then *all* the goods would beexported if farmers could say double their income by doing so.

It's not that easy though. It takes time to set up an exportingorganisation and contacts. You can't just turn it on like a tap.

Of course a fall in the exchange rate encourages exports by making ourproducers more competitive. But to benefit from that increasedcompetitiveness they have to keep their prices low.

Exchange rates don't change radically enough to make any suddendifferences to commerce.

Post by Martin BrownHow short some peoples memories are! It was only a few months ago thatthere was a famine of courgettes and other warm climate fruits.http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/food-and-drink/courgette-shortage-uk-vegetable-shortage-cold-weather-ispain-italy-europe-continent-a7533236.htmlThe farm produce prices are volatile and subject to availability.

We'll see. So much of what we "manufacture" in the UK depends oncomponents priced in Euro or Dollars that price rises are inevitable.

In time, everything equalises. Exchange rates settle down too.

But I don't think salmon production relies too much on Euros or dollars,so I don't think any current price rises in the shops, which is whatpeople have been complaining about, are due to the exchange rate. OrBrexit, which is what they'd love us to believe.

Of course there are factors other than Brexit, it is just that at the moment the pound's fall is a very big factor. Fortunately for UK consumers the price of crude oil has slipped so petrol prices have actually fallen because the price in dollars has fallen more than the price of the dollars it is priced in.

Tell us more about salmon then. You see, nearly all of what we consumehere in the UK is produced here. Indeed, we export quite a lot.So, how does the pound falling affect the price here where no foreignexchange is involved.

There is no foreign exchange involved if the fish is farmed or caught in the UK and then sold here.However salmon can be shipped fresh, frozen, smoked or even tinned and at ~£10 per kilo the transport cost will not be that great a proportion of the price, unlike say potatoes (say 25p/kg).So Tavish McFish, seeing he can get 10% or more extra if his salmon is shipped to continental Europe or even the USA arranges to do so. The result is that if you want to buy salmon in the UK it will (and does) cost you 10-20% more just because of the exchange rate situation. Factor in an unfortunate sea louse epidemic and rises of 30 to 40% in the shops are not uncommon...

Smoked salmon slices from Morrisions now cost £41 a kilo. But I stillbuy the 60g pack occasionally, as I love the stuff.

Of course there are factors other than Brexit, it is just that at themoment the pound's fall is a very big factor. Fortunately for UKconsumers the price of crude oil has slipped so petrol prices haveactually fallen because the price in dollars has fallen more than theprice of the dollars it is priced in.

Tell us more about salmon then. You see, nearly all of what we consumehere in the UK is produced here. Indeed, we export quite a lot.So, how does the pound falling affect the price here where no foreignexchange is involved.

There is no foreign exchange involved if the fish is farmed or caught inthe UK and then sold here.However salmon can be shipped fresh, frozen, smoked or even tinned and at~£10 per kilo the transport cost will not be that great a proportion ofthe price, unlike say potatoes (say 25p/kg).So Tavish McFish, seeing he can get 10% or more extra if his salmon isshipped to continental Europe or even the USA arranges to do so. Theresult is that if you want to buy salmon in the UK it will (and does) costyou 10-20% more just because of the exchange rate situation. Factor in anunfortunate sea louse epidemic and rises of 30 to 40% in the shops are notuncommon...

Smoked salmon slices from Morrisions now cost £41 a kilo. But I stillbuy the 60g pack occasionally, as I love the stuff.

Even when I was a teenager (er long ago) there were pick your ownstrawberry farms, because the low cost labour to pick them scarce.There might be some wastage, but the likeliest result is just higherprices in the shops - well probably already is because things like saladveg from Spain have to be paid for in 10% more expensive Euros.

The price of veg around the world is strange, and seems to bear norelationship to costsOne of the things that gets me is the ludicrously high price of green beansat 4 pound per kilogo to Spain and they are a quarter of that pricebut the cauliflowers are three time the price of the UKtim

Cost of transport usually. Green beans do grow in the UK, but a lot better in Spain.Cauliflowers grow in both places, but we have had a wet summer, socauliflowers here will have grown very well - so good supply andergo low prices, whereas Spain has had a drought, which is bad forcauliflowers, so fewer smaller cauliflowers and so prices will behigh. They are costly to transport and tend not to travel too wellleading to high wastage otherwise the price would even out as it hassay for salmon where a combination of disease in the stock and thefall in the pound has lead to big price rises in the UK.

Are you trying to tell us the heresy that there are factors other thanBrexit?

Of course there are factors other than Brexit, it is just that at themoment the pound's fall is a very big factor. Fortunately for UKconsumers the price of crude oil has slipped so petrol prices haveactually fallen because the price in dollars has fallen more than theprice of the dollars it is priced in.

Tell us more about salmon then. You see, nearly all of what we consumehere in the UK is produced here. Indeed, we export quite a lot.So, how does the pound falling affect the price here where no foreignexchange is involved.

Even when I was a teenager (er long ago) there were pick your ownstrawberry farms, because the low cost labour to pick them scarce.There might be some wastage, but the likeliest result is just higherprices in the shops - well probably already is because things like saladveg from Spain have to be paid for in 10% more expensive Euros.

The price of veg around the world is strange, and seems to bear norelationship to costsOne of the things that gets me is the ludicrously high price of green beansat 4 pound per kilogo to Spain and they are a quarter of that pricebut the cauliflowers are three time the price of the UKtim

Cost of transport usually. Green beans do grow in the UK, but a lotbetter in Spain.Cauliflowers grow in both places, but we have had a wet summer, socauliflowers here will have grown very well - so good supply and ergolow prices, whereas Spain has had a drought, which is bad forcauliflowers, so fewer smaller cauliflowers and so prices will behigh. They are costly to transport and tend not to travel too wellleading to high wastage otherwise the price would even out as it hassay for salmon where a combination of disease in the stock and thefall in the pound has lead to big price rises in the UK.

Are you trying to tell us the heresy that there are factors other thanBrexit?

Of course there are factors other than Brexit, it is just that at themoment the pound's fall is a very big factor. Fortunately for UKconsumers the price of crude oil has slipped so petrol prices haveactually fallen because the price in dollars has fallen more than theprice of the dollars it is priced in.

Tell us more about salmon then. You see, nearly all of what we consumehere in the UK is produced here. Indeed, we export quite a lot.So, how does the pound falling affect the price here where no foreignexchange is involved.

Salmon is now Scotland's biggest export. Sadly the salmon farms are mainlyNorwegian owned

quite apart from the fact that you need to provide proof of that claim

Even when I was a teenager (er long ago) there were pick your ownstrawberry farms, because the low cost labour to pick them scarce.There might be some wastage, but the likeliest result is just higherprices in the shops - well probably already is because things like saladveg from Spain have to be paid for in 10% more expensive Euros.

The price of veg around the world is strange, and seems to bear norelationship to costsOne of the things that gets me is the ludicrously high price of green beansat 4 pound per kilogo to Spain and they are a quarter of that pricebut the cauliflowers are three time the price of the UKtim

Cost of transport usually. Green beans do grow in the UK, but a lot better in Spain.Cauliflowers grow in both places, but we have had a wet summer, so cauliflowers here will have grown very well - so good supply and ergo low prices, whereas Spain has had a drought, which is bad for cauliflowers, so fewer smaller cauliflowers and so prices will be high. They are costly to transport and tend not to travel too well leading to high wastage otherwise the price would even out as it has say for salmon where a combination of disease in the stock and the fall in the pound has lead to big price rises in the UK.

Are you trying to tell us the heresy that there are factors other thanBrexit?

Of course there are factors other than Brexit, it is just that at the moment the pound's fall is a very big factor. Fortunately for UK consumers the price of crude oil has slipped so petrol prices have actually fallen because the price in dollars has fallen more than the price of the dollars it is priced in.

Tell us more about salmon then. You see, nearly all of what we consumehere in the UK is produced here. Indeed, we export quite a lot.So, how does the pound falling affect the price here where no foreignexchange is involved.

You stated the reason yourself:

"Indeed, we export quite a lot." you said.

If salmon exporters can get a better price by selling the stuffabroad, since there's only a finite amount to go round, some shortageshere will be inevitable, thus pushing up the domestic price.

Post by R. Mark ClaytonCauliflowers grow in both places, but we have had a wet summer, so cauliflowers here will have grown very well - so good supply and ergo low prices, whereas Spain has had a drought, which is bad for cauliflowers, so fewer smaller cauliflowers and so prices will be high. They are costly to transport and tend not to travel too well leading to high wastage otherwise the price would even out as it has say for salmon where a combination of disease in the stock and the fall in the pound has lead to big price rises in the UK.

Are you trying to tell us the heresy that there are factors other thanBrexit?

Of course there are factors other than Brexit, it is just that at the moment the pound's fall is a very big factor. Fortunately for UK consumers the price of crude oil has slipped so petrol prices have actually fallen because the price in dollars has fallen more than the price of the dollars it is priced in.

Tell us more about salmon then. You see, nearly all of what we consumehere in the UK is produced here. Indeed, we export quite a lot.So, how does the pound falling affect the price here where no foreignexchange is involved.

"Indeed, we export quite a lot." you said.If salmon exporters can get a better price by selling the stuffabroad, since there's only a finite amount to go round, some shortageshere will be inevitable, thus pushing up the domestic price.

That's simple supply and demand. It has nothing to do with Brexit.

Do please tell us all how the exchange rate affects the price of stuffproduced in the UK and sold in the UK.

Post by R. Mark ClaytonCauliflowers grow in both places, but we have had a wet summer, so cauliflowers here will have grown very well - so good supply and ergo low prices, whereas Spain has had a drought, which is bad for cauliflowers, so fewer smaller cauliflowers and so prices will be high. They are costly to transport and tend not to travel too well leading to high wastage otherwise the price would even out as it has say for salmon where a combination of disease in the stock and the fall in the pound has lead to big price rises in the UK.

Are you trying to tell us the heresy that there are factors other thanBrexit?

Of course there are factors other than Brexit, it is just that at the moment the pound's fall is a very big factor. Fortunately for UK consumers the price of crude oil has slipped so petrol prices have actually fallen because the price in dollars has fallen more than the price of the dollars it is priced in.

Tell us more about salmon then. You see, nearly all of what we consumehere in the UK is produced here. Indeed, we export quite a lot.So, how does the pound falling affect the price here where no foreignexchange is involved.

"Indeed, we export quite a lot." you said.If salmon exporters can get a better price by selling the stuffabroad, since there's only a finite amount to go round, some shortageshere will be inevitable, thus pushing up the domestic price.

That's simple supply and demand. It has nothing to do with Brexit.Do please tell us all how the exchange rate affects the price of stuffproduced in the UK and sold in the UK.

I thought I had done this already.

Tavish McFish farms or catches his salmon in Scotland and normally sends it to Billingsgate [fish market] he gets paid say £10/kg.

The pound falls, so now he sends it to Rungis [fish market in Paris] and receives Eu12/kg. Before the pound fell this would only have given him £10/kg less transport and and Fx costs, so no benefit, but now this gets him £11 and increased profit. Imagine you are Tavish - what would you do?

Post by R. Mark ClaytonCauliflowers grow in both places, but we have had a wet summer, so cauliflowers here will have grown very well - so good supply and ergo low prices, whereas Spain has had a drought, which is bad for cauliflowers, so fewer smaller cauliflowers and so prices will be high. They are costly to transport and tend not to travel too well leading to high wastage otherwise the price would even out as it has say for salmon where a combination of disease in the stock and the fall in the pound has lead to big price rises in the UK.

Are you trying to tell us the heresy that there are factors other thanBrexit?

Of course there are factors other than Brexit, it is just that at the moment the pound's fall is a very big factor. Fortunately for UK consumers the price of crude oil has slipped so petrol prices have actually fallen because the price in dollars has fallen more than the price of the dollars it is priced in.

Tell us more about salmon then. You see, nearly all of what we consumehere in the UK is produced here. Indeed, we export quite a lot.So, how does the pound falling affect the price here where no foreignexchange is involved.

"Indeed, we export quite a lot." you said.If salmon exporters can get a better price by selling the stuffabroad, since there's only a finite amount to go round, some shortageshere will be inevitable, thus pushing up the domestic price.

That's simple supply and demand. It has nothing to do with Brexit.Do please tell us all how the exchange rate affects the price of stuffproduced in the UK and sold in the UK.

I thought I had done this already.Tavish McFish farms or catches his salmon in Scotland and normally sends it to Billingsgate [fish market] he gets paid say £10/kg.The pound falls, so now he sends it to Rungis [fish market in Paris] and receives Eu12/kg.

But he won't. The French aren't daft. They will say "we 'ave bin on,'ow you say, ze telephone, and ze market price is £10/kg. We ain'tpayin' a penny more, git yer luvverly cockles 'ere darlin".

So, the price is £10 take it or leave it, or 11 Euros and do your ownexchange.

Post by R. Mark ClaytonBefore the pound fell this would only have given him £10/kg less transport and and Fx costs, so no benefit, but now this gets him £11 and increased profit. Imagine you are Tavish - what would you do?

Even when I was a teenager (er long ago) there were pick your ownstrawberry farms, because the low cost labour to pick them scarce.There might be some wastage, but the likeliest result is just higherprices in the shops - well probably already is because things like saladveg from Spain have to be paid for in 10% more expensive Euros.

The price of veg around the world is strange, and seems to bear norelationship to costsOne of the things that gets me is the ludicrously high price of green beansat 4 pound per kilogo to Spain and they are a quarter of that pricebut the cauliflowers are three time the price of the UKtim

Cost of transport usually. Green beans do grow in the UK, but a lot better in Spain.Cauliflowers grow in both places, but we have had a wet summer, so cauliflowers here will have grown very well - so good supply and ergo low prices, whereas Spain has had a drought, which is bad for cauliflowers, so fewer smaller cauliflowers and so prices will be high. They are costly to transport and tend not to travel too well leading to high wastage otherwise the price would even out as it has say for salmon where a combination of disease in the stock and the fall in the pound has lead to big price rises in the UK.

If you like Victoria Plums they are now in the shops. What continentalplum can compare to them ?D.J.

Even when I was a teenager (er long ago) there were pick your ownstrawberry farms, because the low cost labour to pick them scarce.There might be some wastage, but the likeliest result is just higherprices in the shops - well probably already is because things like saladveg from Spain have to be paid for in 10% more expensive Euros.

The price of veg around the world is strange, and seems to bear norelationship to costsOne of the things that gets me is the ludicrously high price of green beansat 4 pound per kilogo to Spain and they are a quarter of that pricebut the cauliflowers are three time the price of the UKtim

Cost of transport usually. Green beans do grow in the UK, but a lot better in Spain.Cauliflowers grow in both places, but we have had a wet summer, socauliflowers here will have grown very well - so good supply and ergo lowprices, whereas Spain has had a drought, which is bad for cauliflowers,so fewer smaller cauliflowers and so prices will be high. They arecostly to transport and tend not to travel too well leading to highwastage otherwise the price would even out as it has say for salmon wherea combination of disease in the stock and the fall in the pound has leadto big price rises in the UK.

If you like Victoria Plums they are now in the shops. What continentalplum can compare to them ?

dunno

but the last time I bought plums they tasted of, um, not very much

Another fruit where the taste has been engineered out as a result of thequest for greater yield

Even when I was a teenager (er long ago) there were pick your ownstrawberry farms, because the low cost labour to pick them scarce.There might be some wastage, but the likeliest result is just higherprices in the shops - well probably already is because things like saladveg from Spain have to be paid for in 10% more expensive Euros.

The price of veg around the world is strange, and seems to bear norelationship to costsOne of the things that gets me is the ludicrously high price of green beansat 4 pound per kilogo to Spain and they are a quarter of that pricebut the cauliflowers are three time the price of the UKtim

Cost of transport usually. Green beans do grow in the UK, but a lot better in Spain.Cauliflowers grow in both places, but we have had a wet summer, socauliflowers here will have grown very well - so good supply and ergo lowprices, whereas Spain has had a drought, which is bad for cauliflowers,so fewer smaller cauliflowers and so prices will be high. They arecostly to transport and tend not to travel too well leading to highwastage otherwise the price would even out as it has say for salmon wherea combination of disease in the stock and the fall in the pound has leadto big price rises in the UK.

If you like Victoria Plums they are now in the shops. What continentalplum can compare to them ?

dunno

but the last time I bought plums they tasted of, um, not very much

Another fruit where the taste has been engineered out as a result of thequest for greater yield

tim

==

Which is the very reason I grow my own. Not much of an answer for you but Iam just agreeing.

Post by Dean JacksonIf you like Victoria Plums they are now in the shops. What continentalplum can compare to them ?

dunnobut the last time I bought plums they tasted of, um, not very muchAnother fruit where the taste has been engineered out as a result of thequest for greater yield

You may have bought those foreign varieties. Our Victorias still tastelike plums. It's the same with strawberries I find. British oneshave flavour, those from abroad even in season are bigger but tasteless.

Even when I was a teenager (er long ago) there were pick your ownstrawberry farms, because the low cost labour to pick them scarce.There might be some wastage, but the likeliest result is just higherprices in the shops - well probably already is because things like saladveg from Spain have to be paid for in 10% more expensive Euros.

The price of veg around the world is strange, and seems to bear norelationship to costsOne of the things that gets me is the ludicrously high price of green beansat 4 pound per kilogo to Spain and they are a quarter of that pricebut the cauliflowers are three time the price of the UKtim

Post by MMSummary: A crisis is mounting."Farms in the UK rely on fruit and vegetable pickers from the EuropeanUnion. But this summer they’re staying away, and the harvest will behit"In the wake of an ocean of writing linking Brexit to the zeitgeistyDunkirk spirit, here’s one more martial metaphor. Self-evidently, thisis the phoney war stage of the process. Negotiations have barelystarted; the prime minister is on holiday. Most importantly, thefragile tangle of threads that defines what passes for Britain’seconomic wellbeing -- that mixture of affordable essentials, freelyavailable credit and dependable house prices which ensures no one getstoo uppity about stagnating wages -- just about remains intact.Meanwhile, ministers -- and Labour politicians -- talk about thefundamentals of leaving the European Union as if we can push Brusselsin any direction we fancy and freely choose no end of measures to easeour passage out."The recent noise about freedom of movement is a case in point. If thegovernment has a coherent position, it seems to be that migration fromthe EU under current rules will end in 2019, but also carry on, with-- according to the home secretary, anyway -- the proviso that duringan 'implementation phase' of up to four years, people from the EU willsimply have to add their names to a national register. Thus, a greathuman army which keeps so much of Britain’s economy ticking over willstill be available, just as long as the right arrangements are put inplace."This is, of course, somewhat less than credible, as evidenced by amounting crisis that has yet to turn critical but is bubbling awayacross the country. At the very least, we are fundamentally changingthe basis on which people can live and work in the UK, swappingresidence as a right for a much more uncertain system dependent onpolitical caprice."If you wanted to be more dramatic, you might say that the 2016European referendum in effect put a huge neon sign over Britain,saying, 'Foreigners not welcome'. And to make matters worse, the valueof sterling is making coming here even less attractive." 'The perception from overseas is we are xenophobic, we’re racist,and the pound has plummeted too. We’ve gone with Brexit and that makesus look unfriendly.' Those are the words of John Hardman, director ofHops Labour Solutions, which supplies about 12,000 workers a year tofood-growers. He reckons that when it comes to 'food-picking jobs inagriculture -- which means everything from strawberries to brusselssprouts', there is currently a Brexit-related shortfall of about 20%,which chimes with recent surveys by the National Farmers Union."https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/aug/05/brexit-uk-food-industry-eu-fruit-veg-pickersAnd even if we decided one way or another to stay in, the damage hasalready been done. Those pickers from the EU will likely stay away foryears to come, irrespective of what kind of -- or any -- Brexitthere is. Until at least signs appear that the natives are friendly.MM---This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.http://www.avg.com