The Madstad will never fit the bill unless the current contract is torn up, which will never happen as its in place until 2025! The stadium is run exclusively by Compass, and they have no idea about running bars for a rugby crowd and contribute to a dismal matchday experience. The club get nothing back except ticket sales, and that business model is not sustainable. Our costs compared to revenue generated is one of the highest in the league.

Moving from one football town to another for one football ground from another. We need to buy up a well worn rugby field somewhere in the Thames valley and start putting up some seating around it. It is the ONLY way we will ever feel like a proper club. We need to get hold of these guys, and do what they're doing....... [www.shropshirestar.com]

HeavyCream - that would take a LOT of money (to build a 10,000+ seater stadium), plus planning permission (in the Thames Valley? For a sports stadium? Are you joking...???), plus road access and parking... There are not very many suitable parcels of land of that acreage for sale at ANY price in the Thames Valley.

That is money we simply don't have. Not even Mick Crossan and his pals.

HeavyCreamMoving from one football town to another for one football ground from another. We need to buy up a well worn rugby field somewhere in the Thames valley and start putting up some seating around it. It is the ONLY way we will ever feel like a proper club. We need to get hold of these guys, and do what they're doing....... [www.shropshirestar.com]
Just need some money

I agree! I've always thought the perfect long term solution is Hazelwood. If you put planning to one side for a moment it's perfect!

We own the land.
It's already home.
There's enough space for a stadium and parking, and keep the 'world class training facilities'
If parking is a problem, Kempton Park is just up the road for Park and Ride.
We might need to punch a new access road hole through to the site.
It's then just a case of slowly building forward with temporary stands, like Exeter,Bath, Worcester, Quins etc use. We even have the advantage of not having to build changing rooms etc to begin with.

So, all we need is Planing Permission! With planning, it's amazing what's possible if you have stomach to dig in and plug away! I have intimate experience of what's possible here in Horsham with the local football club. When the threatened loss of a key community facility was a possibility if the football club didn't get a new home, it was amazing how councilors attitudes changed despite locals objection. Eventually, the football club won. In LI's case you argue that the current community use of Hazelwood would be lost, as LI can only become sustainable and stay in business, and keep the community facility is if the professional arm moves in. It might take a few years of chipping away, but I'm sure we'd get there in the end!

AlecWYeah - anyone got a spare £70-100 million down the back of the sofa?
No - thought not.

HeavyCream - that would take a LOT of money (to build a 10,000+ seater stadium), plus planning permission (in the Thames Valley? For a sports stadium? Are you joking...???), plus road access and parking... There are not very many suitable parcels of land of that acreage for sale at ANY price in the Thames Valley.

That is money we simply don't have. Not even Mick Crossan and his pals.

Sorry, but it is a pipedream.

Wow sorry for having an opinion. Any danger of responding in a way that's not rude and patronising? Pretty sure I stated at the end that we'd need money. Anythings possible with planning permission as Finno says..... we will never succeed at Brentford. In my opinion. Hazelwood gets my vote.

I would have thought that Brentford wins hands down ahead of Hazelwood or many other locations for one big reason. Public Transport.

Driving to stadiums is not a way to get people into grounds. Would most people who go to grounds at football matches by car? Wembley, Emirates, Stamford Bridge, White Hart Lane, Olympic Park etc etc surely the vast majority in these stadiums all go by public transport. Not sure of our crowds at games but I would say over 50% drive to the stadium and in the grounds above I would be amazed if it was even 10% who drive to those grounds.

I travel by car to Mad Stad about 9 miles but would prefer to go by train. Never really drink at games as I drive, it is way quicker. I have always seen the logic of the move to Brentford for this main reason, if you can get large amounts of people in and out of a ground quickly by public transport then you will get better crowds. Brentford is one of the best that I have seen for rail, tube, bus access and that makes it attractive to larger potential supporters. Brentford has planning permission (for rugby as well as football) and is going to be built. With your residents in Sunbury/Hazelwood and one exit/roundabout off the M3 to get 10,000 in and out mostly by car..... can't see it myself, you would never get permission even if you had the money to build a big stadium.

I guess it depends where your starting from Bazzo. Unfortunately Brentford isn't on a main line so anyone travelling any distance will require 1 or more changes + the delays involved and the increased risk of a donkey replacement service.

DrV'sHairyCraicI guess it depends where your starting from Bazzo. Unfortunately Brentford isn't on a main line so anyone travelling any distance will require 1 or more changes + the delays involved and the increased risk of a donkey replacement service.
And this wonderful train service is only hourly on a Sunday.

Coming up from the south coast , I think Brentford will be far more difficult to get to for us . |I am assuming that the location will mean parking is very limited . Public transport I imagine will be very time consuming and expensive for four of us . Now we simply drive to the Mad Stad and park .

DrV'sHairyCraicI guess it depends where your starting from Bazzo. Unfortunately Brentford isn't on a main line so anyone travelling any distance will require 1 or more changes + the delays involved and the increased risk of a donkey replacement service.
And this wonderful train service is only hourly on a Sunday.

Yes, but the 10k will be able to walk from home

You joke about it, but it is a fact that there are way more people living in the greater London area within the tube network in particular than there around the outskirts of Reading? I do not see why people try to turn that into a joke? I was never talking about people walking to the game, (even if some in Chiswick/Kew/Brentford could) I was saying that there is a tube station (Gunnersbury) a 5 min walk away and a train station (Kew Bridge) a 1 min walk away with trains from Waterloo. I have no idea how regularly they run, but anyone within the tube and train network (Millions?) could get there in under an hour I would say and that has to open up a whole new support base. I can see the logic.

Of course it will be more difficult for lots of current people who go to games in Reading (me included) to go to Brentford, but the point that I was making was that a stadium within the tube network opens up a whole new option for way more people to come to the games if we are in Brentford. It just does. I might not like it, but it does.

We've been around this buoy many times, Bazzo, in fact I'm quite dizzy & bored with the debate. However there is a section of us who are somewhat skeptical of how big the actual Rugby market to be tapped is in an area where there are already Scottish, Richmond, Quins, Ealing, Irish Amateur, Welsh Amateur & a bit further away Sarries.

I will do anything I can to make matches should/when the move happens. However I've just checked and our route to get there would be walk-bus-train-underground-train or drive-park-train-underground-train.

I've just checked duration using this weekend as an example and on a Saturday it would take us in excess of two hours, on Sunday in excess of three, and on Sundays would mean no longer taking part in grassroots Rugby. This is without any engineering works, of course.
Cost for our party would be £35-50 return.

Set that against current arrangement of driving for 30-40 minutes & paying £80-90 a season to park & I think you can see why we might not continue coming. I know there are people who have longer journeys. I accept that we might be easily replaced by the many residents covered by the LT network.

However the Board needs to be 100% sure that the market is there. Of course the other way to get acceptable numbers at the MadStad is to start winning again...

DrV'sHairyCraicThey didn't go to Ealing, Richmond or London Scottish to watch us last season.

We were playing Ealing, Richmond, London Scottish...... not Saracens, Wasps, Quins etc. I would venture that there would be more there to watch those teams in the Premiership than the ones you mentioned in the Championship !

HeavyCreamMoving from one football town to another for one football ground from another. We need to buy up a well worn rugby field somewhere in the Thames valley and start putting up some seating around it. It is the ONLY way we will ever feel like a proper club. We need to get hold of these guys, and do what they're doing....... [www.shropshirestar.com]
Just need some money

I agree! I've always thought the perfect long term solution is Hazelwood. If you put planning to one side for a moment it's perfect!

We own the land.
It's already home.
There's enough space for a stadium and parking, and keep the 'world class training facilities'
If parking is a problem, Kempton Park is just up the road for Park and Ride.
We might need to punch a new access road hole through to the site.
It's then just a case of slowly building forward with temporary stands, like Exeter,Bath, Worcester, Quins etc use. We even have the advantage of not having to build changing rooms etc to begin with.

So, all we need is Planing Permission! With planning, it's amazing what's possible if you have stomach to dig in and plug away! I have intimate experience of what's possible here in Horsham with the local football club. When the threatened loss of a key community facility was a possibility if the football club didn't get a new home, it was amazing how councilors attitudes changed despite locals objection. Eventually, the football club won. In LI's case you argue that the current community use of Hazelwood would be lost, as LI can only become sustainable and stay in business, and keep the community facility is if the professional arm moves in. It might take a few years of chipping away, but I'm sure we'd get there in the end!

Easy 'innit!!

Apart from the fact that Kempton Park
already has an application in for
building of 3000 houses on it! Also trying
to get Spelthorne Council to change all
tha planning laws that exist on th
Hazelwood including a maximum of 20
matches a season on the main pitch.
If a pro game was scheduled for a Sunday
what would happen to the 400 or so
mini/ youth players that current
use Hazelwood for most of the day?

Hazlelwood is a complete non starter. Chelsea wanted it for a training ground and that didn’t go through, the Nimbism is way to strong....... there was outrage at the 15 seater temporary stand and there are still residents outside a games saying it’s a training ground you shouldn’t be playing matches......

The Jockey Club are looking at selling of Kempton for development so that won’t be parking and will result in a lot of development traffic south of the M3 so can’t see anything more being allowed there.....

My main worry with Brentford is that we were told it would provide a revenue stream during the week through the conference facilities that the Brentford Chairman has shelved as to risky so it may no longer provide as good an option as when first floated.

There is an unused sports arena in the Feltham area which is a significant white elephant and has been for years, called “Feltham Arenas” probably not possible but It’s a 5 minutes walk From Feltham Station and is owned by Hounslow council, and close to Hazlewood

Jon_r43Hazlelwood is a complete non starter. Chelsea wanted it for a training ground and that didn’t go through, the Nimbism is way to strong....... there was outrage at the 15 seater temporary stand and there are still residents outside a games saying it’s a training ground you shouldn’t be playing matches......
The Jockey Club are looking at selling of Kempton for development so that won’t be parking and will result in a lot of development traffic south of the M3 so can’t see anything more being allowed there.....

My main worry with Brentford is that we were told it would provide a revenue stream during the week through the conference facilities that the Brentford Chairman has shelved as to risky so it may no longer provide as good an option as when first floated.

There is an unused sports arena in the Feltham area which is a significant white elephant and has been for years, called “Feltham Arenas” probably not possible but It’s a 5 minutes walk From Feltham Station and is owned by Hounslow council, and close to Hazlewood

Looks like it’s already been a graveyard for a couple of development projects

Jon, Nimbyism never stopped anything in the long term if you really have the stomach for a fight and prepared to play the long game. Chelsea didn't need to fight...they just had the money to go elsewhere !

If a Planning Application actually goes to appeal to the Sec of State, then it's heard purely on planning grounds and it doesn't matter what the locals think. Locals can only influence things (with Councillors etc) when it stays local and if goes to appeal it's heard remotely, and as long the application is sound from a planning perspective, it will be passed !

You only have to look at the current Hazelwood set up, to see that if you chip away and answer concerns you can usually get what you want planning wise (albit it with some restrictions, which you can work on later). Unfortunately or fortunately, depending on which side you're on, that's the way the planning business works.

If you're really serious and be prepared for setbacks and play the long game, you'll eventually get what you want.....and I'm sure that Hazelwood is the ultimate long game, nothing else makes long term commercial sense unless the man with the big bag of sugar turns up !

Speaking as someone living SW at the moment I and a few of my nearest and dearest happily made the trips to Richmond, London Scottish and Ealing. We don't however head to the Mad Stad often because it's an absolute pig. Brentwood would be dead easy for us to get to. We're about to move to SE, Brentwood would still be easy for us, Reading would still be a pig.

Cannot see Brentford making any difference to the size of the crowd, infact the only game we would sell out is the St. Patrick’s day game which attracted over 20,000 to the Madstad one year meaning the club would actually loose money as Brentford will only be 17,500 take into account the supporters who travel up from Guildford , Petersfield, Havant and Portsmouth to Reading who wouldn’t go to Brentford than I cannot see any benefit to the club , especially as they won’t be able to make mo eyxsuring the week from conferences etc.

Jon_r43Hazlelwood is a complete non starter. Chelsea wanted it for a training ground and that didn’t go through, the Nimbism is way to strong....... there was outrage at the 15 seater temporary stand and there are still residents outside a games saying it’s a training ground you shouldn’t be playing matches......
The Jockey Club are looking at selling of Kempton for development so that won’t be parking and will result in a lot of development traffic south of the M3 so can’t see anything more being allowed there.....

My main worry with Brentford is that we were told it would provide a revenue stream during the week through the conference facilities that the Brentford Chairman has shelved as to risky so it may no longer provide as good an option as when first floated.

There is an unused sports arena in the Feltham area which is a significant white elephant and has been for years, called “Feltham Arenas” probably not possible but It’s a 5 minutes walk From Feltham Station and is owned by Hounslow council, and close to Hazlewood

Looks like it’s already been a graveyard for a couple of development projects

Jon, Nimbyism never stopped anything in the long term if you really have the stomach for a fight and prepared to play the long game. Chelsea didn't need to fight...they just had the money to go elsewhere !

If a Planning Application actually goes to appeal to the Sec of State, then it's heard purely on planning grounds and it doesn't matter what the locals think. Locals can only influence things (with Councillors etc) when it stays local and if goes to appeal it's heard remotely, and as long the application is sound from a planning perspective, it will be passed !

You only have to look at the current Hazelwood set up, to see that if you chip away and answer concerns you can usually get what you want planning wise (albit it with some restrictions, which you can work on later). Unfortunately or fortunately, depending on which side you're on, that's the way the planning business works.

If you're really serious and be prepared for setbacks and play the long game, you'll eventually get what you want.....and I'm sure that Hazelwood is the ultimate long game, nothing else makes long term commercial sense unless the man with the big bag of sugar turns up !

How long approx do you think the "long game" that you suggest would take Finno? 5-10 years maybe? That would be just for planning if we did manage to chip away at residents etc, then you have to get the finance and actually build something like a premiership stadium? Could take another few years. Bear in mind that we are losing lots every season (2m?) and that is even without being competitive enough to challenge the top of the league in financial terms. We could have spent and lost 30 odd million by the time your plan comes off. Someone has to fund that every year. Brentford is starting construction soon and will be built within three years. If we got an average 8-10k crowd without any non match day revenue it would still be a better deal than Reading. I enjoy discussing this as it is crucial in the long term survival of the club, but we will never get 10k crowds in reading. Paddy's day games are one offs, and to those who say winning games will bring people in, it didn't last year in the championship and the club has been at Mad Stad long enough to try everything. Not sure how long we've been there, 15 odd years? I live in the area and try to get people to come along and they have no interest. The passionate people on this board who go to games know this too. Brentford is the best option by far for me.

I'm not questioning the benefits or otherwise of the move but not sure how you can state we will never get 10K crowds in Reading when we used to get those sorts of levels regularly when I first started supporting LI ...

Jon_r43Hazlelwood is a complete non starter. Chelsea wanted it for a training ground and that didn’t go through, the Nimbism is way to strong....... there was outrage at the 15 seater temporary stand and there are still residents outside a games saying it’s a training ground you shouldn’t be playing matches......
The Jockey Club are looking at selling of Kempton for development so that won’t be parking and will result in a lot of development traffic south of the M3 so can’t see anything more being allowed there.....

My main worry with Brentford is that we were told it would provide a revenue stream during the week through the conference facilities that the Brentford Chairman has shelved as to risky so it may no longer provide as good an option as when first floated.

There is an unused sports arena in the Feltham area which is a significant white elephant and has been for years, called “Feltham Arenas” probably not possible but It’s a 5 minutes walk From Feltham Station and is owned by Hounslow council, and close to Hazlewood

Looks like it’s already been a graveyard for a couple of development projects

Jon, Nimbyism never stopped anything in the long term if you really have the stomach for a fight and prepared to play the long game. Chelsea didn't need to fight...they just had the money to go elsewhere !

If a Planning Application actually goes to appeal to the Sec of State, then it's heard purely on planning grounds and it doesn't matter what the locals think. Locals can only influence things (with Councillors etc) when it stays local and if goes to appeal it's heard remotely, and as long the application is sound from a planning perspective, it will be passed !

You only have to look at the current Hazelwood set up, to see that if you chip away and answer concerns you can usually get what you want planning wise (albit it with some restrictions, which you can work on later). Unfortunately or fortunately, depending on which side you're on, that's the way the planning business works.

If you're really serious and be prepared for setbacks and play the long game, you'll eventually get what you want.....and I'm sure that Hazelwood is the ultimate long game, nothing else makes long term commercial sense unless the man with the big bag of sugar turns up !

How long approx do you think the "long game" that you suggest would take Finno? 5-10 years maybe? That would be just for planning if we did manage to chip away at residents etc, then you have to get the finance and actually build something like a premiership stadium? Could take another few years. Bear in mind that we are losing lots every season (2m?) and that is even without being competitive enough to challenge the top of the league in financial terms. We could have spent and lost 30 odd million by the time your plan comes off. Someone has to fund that every year. Brentford is starting construction soon and will be built within three years. If we got an average 8-10k crowd without any non match day revenue it would still be a better deal than Reading. I enjoy discussing this as it is crucial in the long term survival of the club, but we will never get 10k crowds in reading. Paddy's day games are one offs, and to those who say winning games will bring people in, it didn't last year in the championship and the club has been at Mad Stad long enough to try everything. Not sure how long we've been there, 15 odd years? I live in the area and try to get people to come along and they have no interest. The passionate people on this board who go to games know this too. Brentford is the best option by far for me.

I agree, renting at Brentford is the best option for the foreseeable, but ultimately, for the best
possibility of being sustainable, ownership of our own stadium is a must. There is no reason why all that can't be progressed in parallel.

We own enough land to make that a reality, and surely it must be ultimate aim!

I am not convinced that we will get bigger crowds in Brentford. OK, there are more people in London than in Reading, but there is also more competition - Quins, Sarries, Richmond, Scottish, etc., and that support will already have decided where their loyalties lie.

What will increase the numbers is, as Fatlad points out, "good winning rugby", and we used to get this in Reading.

Personally, I can't see much difference between Brentford and Reading:

Both stadiums built primarily for football
Similarish size - 17k vs 24k - it's not as if one was 50k and the other 10k
No mid-week revenue at either

There is currently good car parking at Reading, and after the changes it will still be better than Brentford.

The new Green Park railway station has been given the go-ahead, and, as far as I can see, this will make public transport access at Reading easier than Brentford.

In the long term, Brentford may be better, but I can't help feeling that the club will initially struggle to replace the lost support, and I do worry about what the impact will be in the interim.

Sale rugby, located in the Greater Manchester conurbation, population 2.5M gets crowds of 5-6K.
Wasps, only just in the Greater Birmingham conurbation,population 3M+, gets crowds of 12-14K and sometimes 18-20K.

The best team in the AP, Sarries moved to North London, overall catchment 12M+ but do not get huge crowds. What 10K? and only rarely do they extend the stands to take 15K.

Exeter, local population max 500K, crowds 8K-9K but down from previous years.

No local Union competition for each. Two long established the other two movers. All the above own their own stadia AFAIK.

I can't conclude that a move is in any way beneficial to crowd numbers.

I would love to see us stay in Reading and fill the stadium every week. I just have never seen that in my time so i can understand the need to move. I actually don't know when we had 10k at every game. I know the Paddys day game and double header helps get our average up. Would like nothing better than a full Mad Stad, just do not see it happening anytime soon even if we do win games. I cant get any of my friends to go. In all honesty the first game back in Reading after winning the championship and beating Quins in Twickenham had 5k people at it, compared to other premiership clubs that is poor. Hope we do get better crowds this year.

I started supporting in 2001, & don't really remember crowd sizes at the time. By the time I became a properly serious supporter who could make nearly every game as I had settled fairly close to the MadStad it was the 2006/7 season & there certainly seemed to be a lot of people around.

I am absolutely certain that in the period between about 2007 & 2010 we were regularly getting 10k for Premiership matches, and the St Patrick's Party was sold out at least once.

Check out some of the numbers in the 09-10 season. Even if you ignore the big games, we still pulled >16K against Tigs & >19K against Sarries. Ok Sarries was Xmas but IIRC, that was the game where it was only given the go ahead to be played a few hours before KO.

Those two games were slight anomolies though, with one being Xmas and Tiggers always bringing a big following. Average crowd was around the 10-11,000 which is still a vast improvement on recent years.

I'm not sure what this proves through other than fans are fickle. We were a top side then and got decent crowds. We declined on the field and now people who used to come don't any more. It's easy to say improve on the field and people will come, but it is impossible to guarantee quality and not really a sound premise to base a business plan on.

In any case, even with those larger than now crowds, the deal we have at the MadStad is a poor one. Staying will simply perpetuate the cycle that we are in now. Is Brentford the answer? Who knows, but it will certainly be a better deal than we currently have, and I'm pretty sure that the successful businessmen in charge of the club would not be considering it if it wasn't considered necessary by them.

The issue though isn't really around spectator numbers but financial numbers.

By all accounts(pardon the pun), the current deal at the MadStad is poor at best. The assumption is that we'd do a much better deal at Brentford, and it helps the adpiration to move back to London! I think the club see additional numbers as a bonus at this stage, until we start ripping up The Premiership(don't hold your breath!),

Personally, I prefer Reading as it is an easier commute than Brentford will be despite the additional distance from Sussex. I like being able to drive to the ground, get away easier and be home in just over an hour if the motorways are clear. But, hey ho, it's going to be Brentford and as a stadium it looks ideal for our needs.

I would suggest there are many, many reasons for the erosion of the Reading support - the key one being a lack of engagement with the local area. Since it has been stated repeatedly that Irish were moving back to London I doubt many of the locals even considered offering their support. Why get into something only to have it dragged away from you?

It is interesting to note that we came very close to breaking-even at one point with either the current tenancy agreement or the previous, worse, one. So to suggest that it's impossible to make it work is, perhaps, short-sighted.

I'm afraid the increased prices, reduced fun, messing about with reserved/unreserved, removal of senior-citizen status, changing policy over Sat/Sun k.o. etc. etc. are all part of the problem. The business side of LI, in its many incarnations, has a lot of blame for the failures and how they were handled. All of this needs to stop wherever we play. The last few years I would say the club has felt way more welcoming and inclusive than previous years but there are a lot of people who've simply stopped coming and have no reason to re-engage.

Sure, moving might change some things and find new people to replace the ones we've lost but as a club we really need to not repeat those debacles.

I don't know the Reading deal and have to accept that it's a poor one, incapable of being improved. What I do think is that the club is running a risk of losing much of its Berkshire support by a failure to engage with it

I've been shot down in the past over this, but IMHO the Club needs to be communicating actively and vigorously, to mitigate against most of this support not following to Brentford. Right now, the silence over Brentford and its impact is deafening, and as a consequence, rumour and gossip are driving communications

Of course there may be a high level of confidence that any lost support can be more than covered by new W London support. But I'd prefer to reduce my risk by bringing supporters with me rather than immediately having to go out and find replacements.

orsoncartLot of sense in Griff's comments.
I don't know the Reading deal and have to accept that it's a poor one, incapable of being improved. What I do think is that the club is running a risk of losing much of its Berkshire support by a failure to engage with it

I've been shot down in the past over this, but IMHO the Club needs to be communicating actively and vigorously, to mitigate against most of this support not following to Brentford. Right now, the silence over Brentford and its impact is deafening, and as a consequence, rumour and gossip are driving communications

Of course there may be a high level of confidence that any lost support can be more than covered by new W London support. But I'd prefer to reduce my risk by bringing supporters with me rather than immediately having to go out and find replacements.

Just a view

I agree, the club must prioritise against losing support before hoping to attract new ones!

Not really Alec, certainly that does dictate some changes but there have been periods where when we had the choice we chose Saturdays and others when we chose Sundays. Arguments can be made for both days but we really needed to make a choice and stick with it - you'd disenfranchise one preference but only one. What we've done is disenfranchise both.

AlecWNope, Foggy - harvesting apples, pears and sloes in East Anglia! Will watch online, if I can find a stream...

Irish to move to Carrow Road. After all Naaaarfaaalk is a big old desert for top-flight Rugby. You heard it here first

Now you are talking! That would be a dream come true all ready for when I retire from work and return to my hometown. Not going down that bloody Carrow Road though, plenty of other lovely places in and around Norwich that would make great rugby grounds. By the way Foggy, I will be looking for a property with a BIG cellar.

FloridaI'm stunned at how many location analysts / planners there are, all supporting the same club. Remarkable. Do you all do it for a living or are some of you just really keen amateurs?
I'd be really keen to know what data sources you're all using and what you're using to merge, blend and query to get your insights. The guys working here use alteryx and speak very highly of it.

Sorry, long and boring tube journey. My point is, non of us are experts in this field. Although if some of you are I'd love to hear more as its a fascinating subject

Bit harsh, people can have opinions. My thoughts are those that find it easier to get to Brentford will want the move, those who find it easier to get to Madjeski won't.

Overall, being a winning club trumps all that ( although with "Brentford", only just ).

Jeezus. are we really still bickering about this again?
Staying where we are now is not an option as the Owners have consistently stated.
There is NO parking at Brentford (see LI submitted transport plan)
The club believes there is a substantial (latent) supporter market just waiting for us to return to west London...
We don't have the dosh to own our own stadium.
No chance of any sort of stadium at Hazelwood....ever!

walthamJeezus. are we really still bickering about this again?
Staying where we are now is not an option as the Owners have consistently stated.
There is NO parking at Brentford (see LI submitted transport plan)
The club believes there is a substantial (latent) supporter market just waiting for us to return to west London...
We don't have the dosh to own our own stadium.
No chance of any sort of stadium at Hazelwood....ever!

Yes, we are . Why would I be happy switching an easy 45min drive to Reading to a 3hr public transport nightmare to Brentford.
If there are so many fans in London why didn’t they come before?
Increasing the support isn’t going to happen unless we start winning more challenging at the top of the league, which won’t happen without investment.

Ive supported Irish since the 70's Ive lived in Wigan, Cambridge,letterkenny, Portlaoise London and now in Tonbridge,always managed to get to matches I am glad the plan is to head back to London, engage the irish community and rekindle the support that that we had in London.Lets relook at what success looks like, I feel at the Madjeski it seems half hearted

AlecWNope, Foggy - harvesting apples, pears and sloes in East Anglia! Will watch online, if I can find a stream...

Irish to move to Carrow Road. After all Naaaarfaaalk is a big old desert for top-flight Rugby. You heard it here first

Now you are talking! That would be a dream come true all ready for when I retire from work and return to my hometown. Not going down that bloody Carrow Road though, plenty of other lovely places in and around Norwich that would make great rugby grounds. By the way Foggy, I will be looking for a property with a BIG cellar.

Same old rubbish spouted about the move back to London.
Yes more people live their than Reading but those people won’t come flooding back unless we start winning games challenging for trophies, which won’t happen without investment.

"We've been around this buoy many times, Bazzo, in fact I'm quite dizzy & bored with the debate. However there is a section of us who are somewhat skeptical of how big the actual Rugby market to be tapped is in an area where there are already Scottish, Richmond, Quins, Ealing, Irish Amateur, Welsh Amateur & a bit further away Sarries. "

Plus Chelsea, Fulham, QPR, Brentford, Spurs, Arsenal, West Ham, all of whom attract the sports fan from this and the nearby areas.

Margin_WalkerYou do get the feeling the reduction in proposed commercial facilities at the Brentford site may have thrown a bit of a spanner in the works.
Slightly less sure that this is happening than a few months ago. May well be wide of the mark there though. All of this is guess work to an extent.

I agree that the changes have possibly derailed the deal as now there would appear to be nothing more to the 'relationship' with Brentford than a pay to play contract similar to the MadStad.

Being honest, I see the next 12 months as a real defining moment in the history and future of LI as a professional club.
I really hope when we look back we can celebrate it as a positive defining moment, but I worry that may not be the case.

Margin_WalkerYou do get the feeling the reduction in proposed commercial facilities at the Brentford site may have thrown a bit of a spanner in the works.
Slightly less sure that this is happening than a few months ago. May well be wide of the mark there though. All of this is guess work to an extent.

I agree that the changes have possibly derailed the deal as now there would appear to be nothing more to the 'relationship' with Brentford than a pay to play contract similar to the MadStad.

Being honest, I see the next 12 months as a real defining moment in the history and future of LI as a professional club.
I really hope when we look back we can celebrate it as a positive defining moment, but I worry that may not be the case.

You are right. Wouldn't it just be great if a rich investor came along and we got our famed new stadium off the M25?

Really, I think we need our own stadium to be financially self sustainable. If the club has any long term ambition they need to push harder to find a sugar daddy, simple as, as clearly the demands of running a Premiership club (without any off-field revenue) are totally unsustainable.

Our World Class Facilities™ at Hazelwood are a great start. But surely now is a great time to push for following on from that - if the club's looking to transition somewhere else we may as well make a long term investment.

In the short term, though, the club has so much work to do in terms of marketing within the Reading area, or even just communicating about the potential for a move. It's been commented on so many times yet there's still dead silence. No amount of social media marketing, with presumably the fairly mixed demographic of our supporter base, will ever make up for at least trying to bump up attendances via other methods (cheap tickets, or free as a one off, to local schools and businesses just as Wasps did at the Ricoh) in the meantime.

Of course, I am basing this all on assumptions, and I am no business expert. I may be totally misinformed, and we could be fighting tooth and nail behind the scenes to advertise on Reading's radio, to get something up on a billboard in Reading, to be contacting local businesses and offering discounted tickets to schools, hospital staff, workers at the Thames Valley Business Park, etc. Something tells me this isn't the case, though.

That being said - it could be a lot worse with all eyes on Worcester at the moment....

NewCEO Brian Facer starts next Monday according to this, pinched from the Saints Facebook site a few weeks ago so maybe things will move forward

“Today the sun sets on my career at Northampton Saints. During my 12 years at Franklin's Gardens I have been involved in survival, relegation, the elation of winning and the deep sorrow of loss! I have had the pleasure of meeting lots of wonderful people and handful of "challenging" characters. Together we have built things, knocked things down and then helped to create new things. The club, its staff, stakeholders and supporters have helped me through some dark days in my life and have made me the person I am today. It has enabled me to provide for my family both financially and emotionally, it is true to say it has been more than "just" a job, I will never forget my time there. I feel honoured, to have been a tiny part of its history and I would like to thank everybody involved for making it an amazing journey. I would especially like to thank the Barwell family who have made it possible for a working class boy to have experienced so much. Northampton Saints is truly a special Club owned by a special family and Northampton “tane” should be very grateful and proud of them.

As the sunsets on one career, so a new dawn rises on another. On Monday, October 16 I will become the chief Executive Officer of London Irish. A club steeped in proud history with a devoted staff and a supportive fan base. My job is to take what I have learned, apply it and help the Exiles become one of the greatest clubs in Europe. It is a challenge that scares me and excites me in equal measures and an opportunity that I cannot wait to get stuck into. I am looking forward to serving this great club and doing justice to its heritage, whilst creating a lot of special moments along the way.

I feel privileged and blessed to have been given these opportunities, but it’s gratifying to know that hard work and dedication can pay off in spades. All of this is underpinned by a loving and supportive family headed by my very tolerant and loving wife Nicola Facer.”

zzzzzzzz
LI won't have any equity in the new stadium...we'll be a (favoured) commercial tennant. There will be a joint trading company however so that match day incomes and profits will be shared (no idea of the proportions though).

Unless that is.....some magical billionaire and highly benevolent investor fancies ploughing about £10 mio per year into LI with a zero expectation of any profitable return.

norg2072The plans show no parking and its a short walk from from Kew Bridge station (SW trains). The contract hasn't been signed and its not 100% to be happening with Brentford.
So why don't we wait 12 months and see what the club decides to do. Meanwhile lets get behind the club everyway possible!

Just to let those that are interested that the new stadium in Brentford is up for revised planning permission on Thursday. The Planning report recommends approval and hopefully it should be rubber stamped - there is then a 6 week period during which it could be called up by the Mayor - although this is thought to be unlikely.

Site clearance has started and it is expected that proper work will begin before the end of February with an expected completion towards the end of 2019 - Brentford are planning on moving mid-season.

The revised planning permission also includes appropriate full permission for rugby use and LI is mentioned extensively in the Appendix A document and may make for interesting reading as has obviously been prepared with the club.

I have glanced at the documents which indicate that London Irish will feature in the new development which is good news.
I appreciate that supporters have different views about the proposed move. But the question I would like an answer for is: What will our relationship be with Brentford football at the "Football Community Stadium". Will we be tenants? Will there be more benefits than our current relationship with the Madjeski.
I am not looking to stir up various arguments but I would appreciate some clarification.

It doesnt matter wherever the ground is, Reading, Brentford,or even Norwich.Its about winning, if we cant do that then we will not attract fans, so location is irrelevant.

I travel from Tonbridge, at the mercy of M25,M3,M4, could be 90 mins could be 3hrs depending on the severity of the motorways or by train at the mercy of public transport.I am a cancer sufferer and I will travel wherever to support my team when I can

Cast our mind back to mid 2000's we had great crowds, due to the 50/50 games we played and we had belief.We honestly didn't know the outcome, even when we lost we saw good games, but this season we are sure the outcome before we even kick off in my opinion.

Hasn’t our name only been added as approval is officially needed for us to play there?

As has been said unless we start winning crowds won’t improve wherever we play and in fact if we move to Brentford I probably won’t go as it turns a 1hr car trip into a 3 hr public transport nightmare.

I think once The Reading 4 have been ditched they are planning on The Brentford Multitude, made up of the Quins Quitters, Scottinsh Splitters, Welsh Walkers, Richmond Refuseniks and all the others who have just been waiting for us to be in London again and supporting lesser Clubs until we do

I think once The Reading 4 have been ditched they are planning on The Brentford Multitude, made up of the Quins Quitters, Scottinsh Splitters, Welsh Walkers, Richmond Refuseniks and all the others who have just been waiting for us to be in London again and supporting lesser Clubs until we do

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