Report this post

Explain why you are reporting this post:(750 characters max.)

Originally posted by XxGrimmxXFirst we must define the definition of Pay to Win. Some say it's the ability to buy items that are superior than those provided in the game and the only way to get them is from real currency. Some say being able to spend money to get top tier gear/ships/equipment etc without having to put in the time to get it yourself is pay to win. Personally I think EVE is pay to win to a slight degree. Saying that you have to put months in to train your skills doesn't detract from the fact that you can essentially buy any ship you want. If WoW released a shop that allowed you to buy all the best gear would you not call that pay to win? "NO of course not, you have to spend A LOT of time grinding up to level 90, then you have to learn how to properly PvP...etc etc" I think you see my point. Player skill, or game knowledge has nothing to do with if a game is pay to win. Is EVE pay to win? People with money to blow certainly do have an advantage, you can't deny that.

By your definition, bowling is pay to win because people can buy wrist braces.

There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein

Report this post

Explain why you are reporting this post:(750 characters max.)

Ok work outhow much real money it will cost you to own 350 billiob isk.... Then ask your self why players form alliances with thousands of players so they just so they can own some space. And think for one momment at the cost required to to set up and run just 5 structures in eve in deep null sec... Im relling you that venture alone will set you back a good 3 billion isk. And thats concidered nothing and is a requirement if you join an alliance..

Also unlike wow which is probably where your from.. You can loose everything at the drop of a hat. You dont get sets of armour in eve and if you did a team of 5 noobs can strip your isk away from you over time with relative ease...

Isk is not impprtant in eve.. The players are. With outfriebds no amount of isk is win.

Stop speculating on something thats much too complex for your mind todigest. And just play the game.. Buying plex will help you and only you. You cannot buy enough plex to make an impact as others already have it... Also if you dont have the skill points you are limited to what you can buy..m. So!!!!

Report this post

Explain why you are reporting this post:(750 characters max.)

Originally posted by Nitth

So what about that guy that has the skills and buys an endless supply of ships for his corp war?

You still only fly one at a time, so for a fight it doesn't give you an advantage. But the PLEX bought you time though, because you don't have to run missions or any other ingame activity to earn back isk if you lose the ship.

Report this post

Explain why you are reporting this post:(750 characters max.)

Originally posted by Bluefear77

You can purchase unlimited amount of Plex for real money, so if you wanted you could buy anything.

But what about the argument you need to train in real time to learn skills? All you have to do is pay your monthly subscription, login occasionally to train skills, and with enough time ( and subscription fees) have any skill you want.

How can anyone try to justify this game not being pay to win? It is no better than any other pay to win game out there and in many ways it is worse because they suck as much money as possible in monthly fees along the journey.

You know why everyone justifies that eve is not pay-to-win?

Because everyone in the game wants you to sell PLEX for isk and buy a lot of stuff, also everyone in the game really want you to buy that character from the character bazar. Why because with all your 'I-win' items and 'I-win' character, you will suck badly, because 'I-win' items and 'I-win' characters don't give enough advantage in the game to overcome experience.

Everything in eve is about the person, not the character's he plays. You know what happens when a veteran player start training a fresh character with no skills and a small T1-fit frigate and asks to join a PvP ops with that character? He will be invited immediately because his experience is so important in the battle field that no one cares what he flies.

Did you know all ships in eve are balanced? A large ship against a small ship will end up in a stalemate; the big ship cannot hit the small ship, the small ship cannot do enough damage, however the small ship can stop the large ship from doing anything. Therefor in PvP all ships are important.

Report this post

Explain why you are reporting this post:(750 characters max.)

"Pay to Win" normally refers to when someone can gain advances when spending real money on ingame items over those who don't, not when people earn ingame credits by playing and working hard at earning it, which anyone can do and most people would aim to achieve anyway in order to get anywhere within the game. I think its great that CCP even give the option for those kind of players to continue their subscription without the need to pay with real money.

Report this post

I always hear Eve being hailed as the shining beacon of subscription MMO hope. But, I looked into this plex thing...

Is it true I can just buy all the Plex I want with my credit card and then sell it in game to become crazy rich? That seems at least somewhat pay to win...they are basically being their own gold sellers.

Yes it is pay to win... Because if you don't pay you can not play and thus not win... =P

Beyond that i do not think there is any game that rewards long time comitment as well as Eve. I'd say it is the exact opposite of the traditional P2W.

Report this post

Originally posted by NitthSo what about that guy that has the skills and buys an endless supply of ships for his corp war?

You still only fly one at a time, so for a fight it doesn't give you an advantage. But the PLEX bought you time though, because you don't have to run missions or any other ingame activity to earn back isk if you lose the ship.

But looking at it by scale, Wars could be won when competitors have more ships for fodder.

Report this post

Originally posted by NitthSo what about that guy that has the skills and buys an endless supply of ships for his corp war?

You still only fly one at a time, so for a fight it doesn't give you an advantage. But the PLEX bought you time though, because you don't have to run missions or any other ingame activity to earn back isk if you lose the ship.

But looking at it by scale, Wars could be won when competitors have more ships for fodder.

Each of those Rokhs costs 300M ISK. Megas are about the same. Carriers are 2 bill or more. It would cost thousands of dollars to PLEX the replacements for those ships, and that's just one battle in the war.

In the reality of the game, EVE's "winners" buy PLEX for ISK to save money, they don't buy PLEX for money to sell for ISK.

Report this post

The most precious and powerful commodity in Eve isn't ISK - it's time.

It takes time to become the most powerful person in Eve. The most powerful person in Eve is The Mittani without any doubt whatsoever.

It must have taken a lot of time and dedication to do this.

ISK is potentially infinite. However, time is not - time is a limited resource - we eventually run out of it and die.

So the question that the OP should be asking is: "Do I really want to be the 'best' (most powerful) in Eve, or is my passion in life something else?"

At best, an infinite amount of ISK might get you to become one of The Mittani's leutenants, but only a massive expense of time would make you more powerful than The Mittani.

I lol'ed

Mittens hardly ever plays the game! The only reason that he is famous is because of an incident that happens years ago in which he barely played a part in. I.e. the disbanding of BOB. Prior to that he was just a grunt that was high up on the the slippery ladder of goonfleet.

Report this post

Explain why you are reporting this post:(750 characters max.)

Let me take this time to say thank you to the people who use PLEX to buy the biggest ship with the most expensive mods thinking this will somehow mean they'll win. You guys make our killboards looks great!

“There are certain queer times and occasions in this strange mixed affair we call life when a man takes this whole universe for a vast practical joke, though the wit thereof he but dimly discerns, and more than suspects that the joke is at nobody's expense but his own.”-- Herman Melville

Report this post

Explain why you are reporting this post:(750 characters max.)

Originally posted by dave6660Let me take this time to say thank you to the people who use PLEX to buy the biggest ship with the most expensive mods thinking this will somehow mean they'll win. You guys make our killboards looks great!

a big expensive ship is usually known by the term 'primary target' because expensive ships do look a lot more interesting on killmails than some random guy in a rifter, but yeah, those who go into Eve thinking its Pay to Win usually end up as padding on someone elses killboard

Report this post

Originally posted by NitthSo what about that guy that has the skills and buys an endless supply of ships for his corp war?

You still only fly one at a time, so for a fight it doesn't give you an advantage. But the PLEX bought you time though, because you don't have to run missions or any other ingame activity to earn back isk if you lose the ship.

But looking at it by scale, Wars could be won when competitors have more ships for fodder.

Each of those Rokhs costs 300M ISK. Megas are about the same. Carriers are 2 bill or more. It would cost thousands of dollars to PLEX the replacements for those ships, and that's just one battle in the war.

In the reality of the game, EVE's "winners" buy PLEX for ISK to save money, they don't buy PLEX for money to sell for ISK.

Thats not the issue here, The issue is: "Does plex provide mechanism to get an advantage."

Report this post

Explain why you are reporting this post:(750 characters max.)

Originally posted by Nitth

Thats not the issue here, The issue is: "Does plex provide mechanism to get an advantage."

Nope, and anyone who'd have spent more than a month in the game would realize this. The time it takes to get those skills up to be good in those types of fights you'll have amassed more than enough ISK to replace those ships. Had you not, and were poorly skilled, then even those 100 ships you bought with ISK converted PLEX will only clutter the battlefield as they explode just like the first one.

Report this post

Originally posted by NitthSo what about that guy that has the skills and buys an endless supply of ships for his corp war?

You still only fly one at a time, so for a fight it doesn't give you an advantage. But the PLEX bought you time though, because you don't have to run missions or any other ingame activity to earn back isk if you lose the ship.

But looking at it by scale, Wars could be won when competitors have more ships for fodder.

Each of those Rokhs costs 300M ISK. Megas are about the same. Carriers are 2 bill or more. It would cost thousands of dollars to PLEX the replacements for those ships, and that's just one battle in the war.

In the reality of the game, EVE's "winners" buy PLEX for ISK to save money, they don't buy PLEX for money to sell for ISK.

Thats not the issue here, The issue is: "Does plex provide mechanism to get an advantage."

I'll make this easy for you: the best advantage you can ever get from spending excess money into this game is using alts. ISK alone is not an advantage in eve as you're used to in other linear games. And that's why every experienced player would rather make an alt than spend plex on isk alone, and actually plex themselves instead of selling it for isk.

Just because there is technically an advantage, it does not make it very meaningful at all, or a replacement for actual game knowledge. You won't buy your way up in eve, that is for certain.