Fred Phelps, the founder of the Westboro Baptist Church, has died at the age of 84, according to two of his children.

His son, Timothy Phelps, confirmed to Kansas' WIBW that Fred Phelps died "before midnight" on Wednesday. His daughter, Shirley Phelps-Roper, also confirmed news of the death to the Topeka Capital-Journal.

However, at least one family member seemed to dispute the reports of his siblings, as attorney Jonathan Phelps told WIBW: "Pastor Phelps is doing just fine." The network notes this could be a spiritual reference.

"I can tell you that Fred Phelps is having some health problems," WBC spokesman Steve Drain told the Lawrence Journal-World Sunday. "He's an old man, and old people get health problems."

A spokesperson for the Westboro Baptist Church was not immediately available for further comment Thursday.

Nate Phelps, one of Fred Phelps' estranged children, wrote a Facebook post on March 15 saying his father was "on the edge of death at Midland Hospice house in Topeka, Kansas."

He also revealed Fred Phelps had been excommunicated from the church in August 2013. The Topeka Capital-Journal later reported the excommunication occurred after he called for kinder treatment of fellow church members.

The Westboro Baptist Church was established in 1955 by Phelps. Over the years, the Topeka-based group became infamous for their vehement anti-gay rhetoric and picketing of funerals. In 2011, NPR reported the church only had about 100 members, almost all of whom were from Phelps' family.

I normally try and refrain from celebrating the deaths of people i can't stand, but this is one worth celebrating!

G-bye Hate-monger. wouldn't it be fun to be a fly on the wall at the Pearly Gates and watch the suprise on his face when he realises he's not at all what he thought he was and not getting in?

I agree. This Jack Wagon made a whole lot of people view Christians in a wrong light.

March 20th, 2014, 7:36 pm

Pablo

RIP Killer

Joined: August 6th, 2004, 9:21 amPosts: 9967Location: Dallas

Re: Ding Dong the witch is dead, the wicked witch is dead!

CNN wrote:

Should we celebrate Fred Phelps' death?

He was a preacher best known for his virulent anti-gay rhetoric, the force behind placards that read “God Hates Fags.” He taught that natural disasters and man-made horrors like the Sandy Hook Elementary School shooting were God’s punishment for acceptance of homosexuality.

He believed gays and lesbians should be put to death.

On Thursday, the world learned that Fred Phelps, founding pastor of the small but infamous Westboro Baptist Church of Topeka, Kansas, was dead.

The news unleashed a firestorm of online chatter. In less than an hour after CNN posted an article announcing his death, more than 3,000 readers had weighed in with comments. By the end of the business day, that number exceeded 11,000.

Nearly as many readers “liked” a comment from humm61: “To paraphrase a famous actress, ‘My mother said to only say nice things about the dead. He's dead. How nice.’”

Mixed in were those who wanted to picket – or party – at Phelps’ funeral. Some relished the idea of him rotting in hell. Plenty others were horrified by the hatred and condemned the celebration.

The sometimes heated back-and-forth between readers at CNN and elsewhere got us thinking: What is the appropriate response to Phelps’ death? Is it right to damn him to eternal suffering, a dark wish he extended to plenty of others?

We reached out to several advocates for those who may have taken Phelps’ message most personally - Christians who are also gay - to see what they thought.

“The words and actions of Fred Phelps have hurt countless people. As a Christian, I’m angry about that, and I’m angry about how he tarnished the reputation of the faith I love so much,” Justin Lee, executive director of The Gay Christian Network, said in an e-mail message.

“But as a Christian, I also believe in showing love to my enemies and treating people with grace even when they don’t deserve it,” he said. “I pray for his soul and his family just as I pray for those he harmed. It’s easy for me to love someone who treats me kindly. It’s hard for me to love Fred Phelps. To me, that’s the whole point of grace.”

That Phelps is gone isn’t cause for joy for Jim Smith, either.

“There is a sadness as deep as the Grand Canyon over the harm that he has unleashed in our country, a sadness that can’t be quantified. But that still doesn’t mean I delight in his death,” said Smith, the associate director of Dignity USA, an organization that advocates for LGBTQ Catholics. “I’d delight in the end of the Westboro [Baptist Church] mission.”

One need not specifically work on behalf of the LGBTQ community to see this broader point. Phelps was one small, albeit persistent and radical, voice in a larger chorus.

“A Christian can be glad that Fred Phelps will no longer be distorting the gospel into little spectacles of hate. But then he’s hardly been the only one doing that,” Mark D. Jordan, a professor of religion and politics at Washington University in St. Louis, wrote in an e-mail message. “As hate-mongers go, he was not particularly dangerous.”

Phelps “was a phantom of the media: he loved a TV camera – and the TV cameras too often loved him,” said Jordan, a leading expert on Christian ethics and sexuality.

“If we’re serious about stopping Christian persecution aimed at sex or gender, we’ll pay less attention to televised spectacles and more to the collusion of churches with bureaucracies of governmental power.”

Rejoicing in Phelps' death, or the loss of any soul, isn't the Christian way, Jordan added.

"If some Christians want to celebrate the death of Fred Phelps, I hope it's because they think he has been released from bodily suffering and is going home to God," he said.

"To rejoice because you hope that he's already in hellfire is to do exactly what he did to his enemies."

He was a preacher best known for his virulent anti-gay rhetoric, the force behind placards that read “God Hates Fags.” He taught that natural disasters and man-made horrors like the Sandy Hook Elementary School shooting were God’s punishment for acceptance of homosexuality.

He believed gays and lesbians should be put to death.

On Thursday, the world learned that Fred Phelps, founding pastor of the small but infamous Westboro Baptist Church of Topeka, Kansas, was dead.

The news unleashed a firestorm of online chatter. In less than an hour after CNN posted an article announcing his death, more than 3,000 readers had weighed in with comments. By the end of the business day, that number exceeded 11,000.

Nearly as many readers “liked” a comment from humm61: “To paraphrase a famous actress, ‘My mother said to only say nice things about the dead. He's dead. How nice.’”

Mixed in were those who wanted to picket – or party – at Phelps’ funeral. Some relished the idea of him rotting in hell. Plenty others were horrified by the hatred and condemned the celebration.

The sometimes heated back-and-forth between readers at CNN and elsewhere got us thinking: What is the appropriate response to Phelps’ death? Is it right to damn him to eternal suffering, a dark wish he extended to plenty of others?

We reached out to several advocates for those who may have taken Phelps’ message most personally - Christians who are also gay - to see what they thought.

“The words and actions of Fred Phelps have hurt countless people. As a Christian, I’m angry about that, and I’m angry about how he tarnished the reputation of the faith I love so much,” Justin Lee, executive director of The Gay Christian Network, said in an e-mail message.

“But as a Christian, I also believe in showing love to my enemies and treating people with grace even when they don’t deserve it,” he said. “I pray for his soul and his family just as I pray for those he harmed. It’s easy for me to love someone who treats me kindly. It’s hard for me to love Fred Phelps. To me, that’s the whole point of grace.”

That Phelps is gone isn’t cause for joy for Jim Smith, either.

“There is a sadness as deep as the Grand Canyon over the harm that he has unleashed in our country, a sadness that can’t be quantified. But that still doesn’t mean I delight in his death,” said Smith, the associate director of Dignity USA, an organization that advocates for LGBTQ Catholics. “I’d delight in the end of the Westboro [Baptist Church] mission.”

One need not specifically work on behalf of the LGBTQ community to see this broader point. Phelps was one small, albeit persistent and radical, voice in a larger chorus.

“A Christian can be glad that Fred Phelps will no longer be distorting the gospel into little spectacles of hate. But then he’s hardly been the only one doing that,” Mark D. Jordan, a professor of religion and politics at Washington University in St. Louis, wrote in an e-mail message. “As hate-mongers go, he was not particularly dangerous.”

Phelps “was a phantom of the media: he loved a TV camera – and the TV cameras too often loved him,” said Jordan, a leading expert on Christian ethics and sexuality.

“If we’re serious about stopping Christian persecution aimed at sex or gender, we’ll pay less attention to televised spectacles and more to the collusion of churches with bureaucracies of governmental power.”

Rejoicing in Phelps' death, or the loss of any soul, isn't the Christian way, Jordan added.

"If some Christians want to celebrate the death of Fred Phelps, I hope it's because they think he has been released from bodily suffering and is going home to God," he said.

"To rejoice because you hope that he's already in hellfire is to do exactly what he did to his enemies."

Well, while I do agree with the subject of the article. And I agree that GOD does not hate Homosexuals. GOD does hate the act of being gay. GOD saves the sinner from out of his/her sin. Once GOD has saved them from their sin, they are supposed to leave that sin behind. So, I don't believe that you can be actively participating in the gay lifestyle and be saved at the same time. But, even that is not to say that you can't repent of the act again and ask GOD to forgive you again. 7 X 70.

March 21st, 2014, 9:57 am

Pablo

RIP Killer

Joined: August 6th, 2004, 9:21 amPosts: 9967Location: Dallas

Re: Ding Dong the witch is dead, the wicked witch is dead!

BillySims wrote:

GOD does hate the act of being gay.

Really, does God have a girlfriend? Did Jesus? Perhaps God hates anyone being in a relationship. If God really loves us all, perhaps he just wants us to feel love as well - straight or gay. I find it scary how so many think they know exactly how God thinks, that just leads to all sorts of problems.

It saddens me that even after his death, Mr. Phelps is still able to push his message....

My job as a Christian is NOT to clean the fish, but to catch them. Jesus said, "Come, follow me, and I'll make you fishers of men." Not at ANY time did He say it was my responsibility to clean, or pick and choose who's in, and who's out. That is Country Club Christianity, and a big reason why so many people are injured and have lost their taste for God.

"They shall know we are Christians by our love!" When we take sides, and picket, and try to defend this right and that, we are only ALIENATING ourselves from those whom need to see Jesus in us. As a Blood Bought Born Again Believer, I have NO RIGHTS to defend. I'm bought with a price, and so I'm a slave to righteousness. As a slave, I report to a master, and it is HIS duty to feed, defend, provide, and direct what I do. My ONLY duty is obedience!

In my humanity, I often try to communicate what I see and hear from God to those around me, BUT it is often seen as foolishness because they can not see, nor hear because of the lack of faith. That doesn't make them bad, or unworthy, it just means that the only One who can do anything about the translation needs to do the translating. My responsibility there is to NOT muddy the waters anymore, and begin praying for those whom the Lord has laid upon my heart. And to keep praying for as long as it takes! The load isn't that heavy, but the discipline and diligence is a difficulty that must be managed.

_________________Acts 4:13, 1 Cor. 2:1-5, Rom. 12:1-2

March 21st, 2014, 11:08 am

WarEr4Christ

QB Coach - Brian Callahan

Joined: October 26th, 2005, 11:48 pmPosts: 3056Location: Elkhart, In.

Re: Ding Dong the witch is dead, the wicked witch is dead!

For me personally, I do not agree with the gay lifestyle, and understand it to be a "bent" or "sensitivity" that can be generational, or environmental, but that is MY opinion and perspective. I know others don't agree and I'm not concerned with arguing the point so as not to create an offense. In reality, I'd choose to love Adam and Steve, or Adelie and Eve despite their lifestyle. Because it is my deepest desire, that they will come to know Jesus by the love He displays through my life.

Mr. Phelps' church is predominantly made up of his family members, and his hate rhetoric has provided a lot of notoriety, but it is my hope that now that the head of the snake is gone, the body will wither and disappear. Too many Veterans and other people deserve better than to have their final moments made a display of this magnitude.

Really, does God have a girlfriend? Did Jesus? Perhaps God hates anyone being in a relationship. If God really loves us all, perhaps he just wants us to feel love as well - straight or gay. I find it scary how so many think they know exactly how God thinks, that just leads to all sorts of problems.

Have you ever read the story of Sodom and Gamorah? Case closed. I think GOD made it perfectly clear how he felt about the act of being gay.

Really, does God have a girlfriend? Did Jesus? Perhaps God hates anyone being in a relationship. If God really loves us all, perhaps he just wants us to feel love as well - straight or gay. I find it scary how so many think they know exactly how God thinks, that just leads to all sorts of problems.

Have you ever read the story of Sodom and Gamorah? Case closed. I think GOD made it perfectly clear how he felt about the act of being gay.

P.S. And yes. JESUS does have a girlfriend. His church is his bride to be. ( Marriage Supper of the Lamb.)

March 21st, 2014, 11:51 am

Pablo

RIP Killer

Joined: August 6th, 2004, 9:21 amPosts: 9967Location: Dallas

Re: Ding Dong the witch is dead, the wicked witch is dead!

BillySims wrote:

Pablo wrote:

BillySims wrote:

GOD does hate the act of being gay.

Really, does God have a girlfriend? Did Jesus? Perhaps God hates anyone being in a relationship. If God really loves us all, perhaps he just wants us to feel love as well - straight or gay. I find it scary how so many think they know exactly how God thinks, that just leads to all sorts of problems.

Have you ever read the story of Sodom and Gamorah? Case closed. I think GOD made it perfectly clear how he felt about the act of being gay.

I certainly have and I must assume you think everything in the Old Testament to be true then, especially the Book of Genesis - LOL. You also must be an expert of the story of Sodom and Gamorah and know that basically no archaeological evidence supports the supposed location of the story and that there is much debate among Hebrew scholars as to the exact meaning of many of the translations. For example "yada" is assumed to mean something sexually occurred, although a more direct translation is simply "know" and of the nearly 1,000 times it is used in the Bible, this is one of less than 15 times it is translated into something sexual as it was here. There are many other translation issues that can be brought up in this story but since you are again an expert and the case is "closed" it is probably useless to have any sort of open discussion.

I'll state again, this "black and white" thinking is very scary - people assume they know what God thinks with no idea what they are really talking about. People think and act on assumptions they have never really dived deep into. But hey, feel free to ride over his grave on your back to the future hovercraft skateboard with Tony Hawk since you assumed that must be true also...

Really, does God have a girlfriend? Did Jesus? Perhaps God hates anyone being in a relationship. If God really loves us all, perhaps he just wants us to feel love as well - straight or gay. I find it scary how so many think they know exactly how God thinks, that just leads to all sorts of problems.

Have you ever read the story of Sodom and Gamorah? Case closed. I think GOD made it perfectly clear how he felt about the act of being gay.

I certainly have and I must assume you think everything in the Old Testament to be true then, especially the Book of Genesis - LOL. You also must be an expert of the story of Sodom and Gamorah and know that basically no archaeological evidence supports the supposed location of the story and that there is much debate among Hebrew scholars as to the exact meaning of many of the translations. For example "yada" is assumed to mean something sexually occurred, although a more direct translation is simply "know" and of the nearly 1,000 times it is used in the Bible, this is one of less than 15 times it is translated into something sexual as it was here. There are many other translation issues that can be brought up in this story but since you are again an expert and the case is "closed" it is probably useless to have any sort of open discussion.

I'll state again, this "black and white" thinking is very scary - people assume they know what God thinks with no idea what they are really talking about. People think and act on assumptions they have never really dived deep into. But hey, feel free to ride over his grave on your back to the future hovercraft skateboard with Tony Hawk since you assumed that must be true also...

Sure will. I wasn't intent on ruffling any feathers with what I said. Many words have more than 1 meaning. It is true in every language. In order to understand the true meaning to the word, you need to put it into context with the whole statement. That is why it is translated differently in those 15 places than in the other 1000 times. Since I only know English and a tiny bit of German, all I have to go on is the English versions of the bible I have read.

As for the hover board comment. I am pretty sure the US Government has anti gravity technology. There are far too many reports of people seeing black triangular shaped aircraft just hovering over the trees, and emitting absolutely no sound. They are usually reported as UFO's because regular people don't know what they are. So, usually, technology arrives in stores about a decade after the Government has it. So, IMHO, it is not a stretch to think it is finally hitting the stores.

March 21st, 2014, 12:46 pm

Pablo

RIP Killer

Joined: August 6th, 2004, 9:21 amPosts: 9967Location: Dallas

Re: Ding Dong the witch is dead, the wicked witch is dead!

I'm not intending to ruffle any feathers either Billy - just trying to make sure people stay more open minded, that being said I'd sure like to be light as a feather on a hoverboard if you ever get your hands on one can I come over to play?

Really, does God have a girlfriend? Did Jesus? Perhaps God hates anyone being in a relationship. If God really loves us all, perhaps he just wants us to feel love as well - straight or gay. I find it scary how so many think they know exactly how God thinks, that just leads to all sorts of problems.

Have you ever read the story of Sodom and Gamorah? Case closed. I think GOD made it perfectly clear how he felt about the act of being gay.

I certainly have and I must assume you think everything in the Old Testament to be true then, especially the Book of Genesis - LOL. You also must be an expert of the story of Sodom and Gamorah and know that basically no archaeological evidence supports the supposed location of the story and that there is much debate among Hebrew scholars as to the exact meaning of many of the translations. For example "yada" is assumed to mean something sexually occurred, although a more direct translation is simply "know" and of the nearly 1,000 times it is used in the Bible, this is one of less than 15 times it is translated into something sexual as it was here. There are many other translation issues that can be brought up in this story but since you are again an expert and the case is "closed" it is probably useless to have any sort of open discussion.

I'll state again, this "black and white" thinking is very scary - people assume they know what God thinks with no idea what they are really talking about. People think and act on assumptions they have never really dived deep into. But hey, feel free to ride over his grave on your back to the future hovercraft skateboard with Tony Hawk since you assumed that must be true also...

Sure will. I wasn't intent on ruffling any feathers with what I said. Many words have more than 1 meaning. It is true in every language. In order to understand the true meaning to the word, you need to put it into context with the whole statement. That is why it is translated differently in those 15 places than in the other 1000 times. Since I only know English and a tiny bit of German, all I have to go on is the English versions of the bible I have read.

As for the hover board comment. I am pretty sure the US Government has anti gravity technology. There are far too many reports of people seeing black triangular shaped aircraft just hovering over the trees, and emitting absolutely no sound. They are usually reported as UFO's because regular people don't know what they are. So, usually, technology arrives in stores about a decade after the Government has it. So, IMHO, it is not a stretch to think it is finally hitting the stores.

Ahh, the good old TR-3B. I think we actually had a conversation here before about the plausibility of it's existence a long time ago.

While I'd love to believe it exists just out of pure patriotism and how awesome it would the if the U.S really has reached that level of technological prowess...I find it extremely hard to believe that something like that (especially given how big they are suppose to be) could actually remain secret with no real evidence of their existence for that long (the rumors and supposed sightings began circa 1980), especially given the fact that nowadays everyone has a cell phone and instantly reaches for it anytime they see anything strange.

March 24th, 2014, 7:02 pm

regularjoe12

Off. Coordinator – Jim Bob Cooter

Joined: March 30th, 2006, 12:48 amPosts: 4194Location: Davison Mi

Re: Ding Dong the witch is dead, the wicked witch is dead!

wow, this thread took a couple of turns on me!. Let me see if I can catch up..

A) im actually suprised Pablo beat Wags to the idea that maybe celebrating his death isn't very classy idea. I had a feeling that thought line was comming, and I do agree that the high road is probably the better road to take, but every once in a while someone does one simple thing that makes the world so much better of a place that IMO it deserves to be celebrated. This guy doing us all a favor and finally kicking the bucket qualifies IMO. The ammount of grief and misery this hate monger brought to so many....knowing he cant do it again all by itself is a reason to put a smile on my face. (knowing that his lil church is down to less than 100 people and most of them are his family makes it even better)

B) im ALWAYS a little dispapointed whenever a christian declares that god hates people. ANY kind of people. the whole Christian faith is SUPPOSED to be about love and understanding. "Love thy neighbor" "judge not" ect ect ect. the way I understand things, God doesnt hate ANYONE. he may hate what we do, and the sins we commit, but jesus was all about love and forgivness. I mean for crying out loud the guy was in pain and misery, being murdered slowly...and he STILL asked that those bringing him harm be forgiven. yeah that sounds like a guy who would endorse the whole "God hates gay people" line of thinking I'm sorry but anyone who says that "god hates (insert any group of people here)" has missed the message and needs to stop preaching and go back to learning.

and finally C) Screw the hoverboard! Science fairs in the 50's say I should have a hoverCAR by now! Get on it NASA!

_________________2013 Lionbacker Fantasy Football Champion

March 25th, 2014, 11:10 am

Pablo

RIP Killer

Joined: August 6th, 2004, 9:21 amPosts: 9967Location: Dallas

Re: Ding Dong the witch is dead, the wicked witch is dead!

Excellent post Joe, especially about the Christian faith - it is nice to hear that perspective because it certainly applies to the vast majority of Christians I have known. Here is one more thought, this guy's hateful opinions likely had the opposite effect of what he intended and preached. Instead of turning many weak minded souls against gays, he actually galvanized the gay rights movement. He got the sideline folks to stand up and even though they don't have a horse in the race, they decided to get involved with the opposite horse from which he was riding due to his hateful rhetoric.