If they held and election and everyone came…

CNN’s newest numbers. Note the differences between “likely voters” and registered voters. They’re calling it the “enthusiasm gap,” but quite frankly if you don’t vote because you’re “discouraged” or whatever, then…, well, you know the cliche.

A woman once told me that if I didn’t vote I lose my whining privileges. I have voted in every election since turning 18. I highly value my whining privileges.

28 comments

As a habitual voter I do most of my wining about the unverifiable privatized voting apparatus that has been set up across the country. Here in Humboldt, we have found a way to do an honest sample recount and have found and corrected problems with our own privatized system but most of the media is focused on voter fraud instead of election fraud. Only 5 people have been convicted of voter fraud in the last few elections nation wide out of 20 people charged with voter fraud. I think that one of those is Ann Coulter.

Does anyone have any real evidence that disputes that?

I had a bumper sticker that said, ” If no one votes, then the white guy will win”.
Republicans are hoping for a low turnout.

In most cases, as people get older they grow more conservative. In most cases, as people get older, they are more likely to vote. That’s why Social Security has not been dismantled but our public universities have been.

It’s crazy-making when you’re presented with bad and worse as alternatives, but if more young people started to vote for bad over worse instead of just telling themselves that voting is pointless, the whole system would be shaken and government would begin to respond a bit more to the people.

It’s actually true to a certain extent, but it’s been blown way out of proportion. In fact, most people become less ideological as they get older, and the hardcore right wingers tend to mellow. Priests become less dogmatic once they have established themselves. Military people also tend to mellow. And for some reason, country music stars as well.

It is also true that young people are more patient and when they vote for change they want it yesterday and anything less is a failure.

I’m hoping Obama’s appearance on the Daily Show last night will inspire a few more young voters.

http://www.abpnews.com/content/view/5778/53/
The generation gap on the issue was stark. Among the youngest group surveyed (ages 18-29), a full three-quarters supported full same-sex marriage rights (52 percent) or civil unions (23 percent). But among those age 65 and over, only a small majority voiced support for same-sex marriage (22 percent) or civil unions (29 percent).

Eric preaches hope:
Word of Bill Moyer on Democracy Now this morning say it better than I:

No matter the debacle—Watergate, Vietnam—no matter what has befallen us, we have kept insisting the system works. But listen. All bets are off. We have reached a parting of the ways, and we’re choosing the wrong path. The great American experiment in creating a different future together has come down to the worship of individual cunning in the pursuit of wealth and power, with both of our political parties cravenly subservient to Big Money. As a journalist, I can tell you what you know: a profound sense of betrayal and loss pervades the country between the coasts—even despair, even loss of hope in the future.

The last thing I want to be accused of is being Pollyanish, so I’ll be temperate in my remarks: this country has faced far worse situations in the past (Depression, Vietnam, Watergate) and come through intact (for the most part). Moyers has a strange sense of history if he thinks we are suffering from despair and loss of hope. Perhaps the circles in which he moves are different from mine; perhaps I’m an ostrich. But “profound sense of betrayal” is not the reading I would give to the country’s mood. Even the “Tea Partiers” are immune from despair — they are animated by a profound belief in the country’s ultimate goodness and promise, though their answers are simplistic.

For the record I preach realism. Yeah, I wish the health care reform included a public option. If it survives the next congress, there will probably be a public option within a decade and a single payer system within two. Obama said as much last night when pointing out the history of social security.

As for hope and despair, well, all I can think of is the old joke about the optimist and pessimist. The former says, “you know, I think we have the best of all possible worlds,” and the latter replies, “you know, I think you’re right.”

I am totally offended by Meg Whitman’s sending jobs offshore to solve her companies problems, then giving herself a big raise to her already obscene salary. Then she tries to buy the vote to become governor. Nothing can convince me that this woman will do anything for California other than help herself, and her cronies, to what is left of California’s wealth.

On the other hand I am old enough to remember the village idiot Jerry Brown and what he did to California when he was Governor. He mishandled everything from the medfly invasion, to ruining the highway system.

But, I’m going to hold my nose and vote for Brown. He is a malinformed idiot, but I think that he is an honest idiot, and I think that he might have more compassion for the common man than Whitman. My heart has always been with the common man, so Brown gets my vote this time. I’ll hate myself in the morning, but that’s another day.

I’m also voting for Wesley Chesbro. Partly because he is for the modification of Richardson grove while protecting the existing redwoods.
I’m voting for Mike Thompson because he is the hardest working man in politics.
I can’t even consider voting for Fiorina nor Boxer. Fiorina is a Whitman clone and Boxer is a worse idiot than Brown. There is no lesser evil. I’m not voting. I know that it doesn’t make sense, but I can’t hold my nose tight enough to vote for either.

I won’t tell you who I’m voting for in the hospital district, because I like my friends better than politics, and I don’t want to offend anyone.

I’m hoping Obama’s appearance on the Daily Show last night will inspire a few more young voters.

Hope to inspire! “Realism.” Right.

And…

there will probably be a public option within a decade and a single payer system within two.

What makes you think we’ve got two years let alone ten? Vote your heart out for these corrupt, bought and paid for craven whores (craven whores because they all pander for your money and your vote). In my book that makes you directly responsible for what they do and don’t do.

You have just proven beyond a doubt that you don’t understand thing one about democracy.

What’s that? That the people are NOT responsible for the people they elect? I don’t think the World’s going to make that distinction when they decide they can’t tolerate America’s hypocrisy and rogue anarchy anymore. You vote, your responsible …and accountable. Remember, “of, by and for the people”? That “people” is YOU, the VOTER. Anyone that thinks their responsibilities end at the voting booth are fools.

Let me put it this way: While I was sympathetic to Nader’s 2000 argument that there wasn’t “a dimes worth of difference” between the major parties, that was before Cheneybush and now the Tea Partiers threw in their two bits. Yes, it’s an ugly calculation, but the fact remains that the “lesser of two evils” is still, by definition less evil. Which is why most of the rest of the world is still very glad that they are dealing with a President Obama, rather than a President McCain, or worse yet, President (shudder) Palin.

…none of us should ever vote for anyone, because we can’t control every single thing they “do or don’t do” in office.

Hey, you’re not as dense or uneducated as I thought you were! It’s not about “control.” It’s about responsibility and accountability. That’s why the whole process is convoluted or ‘backasswards’. Since you can’t control what they do, you consequently, need to pick someone to represent you that you can trust. You can never trust anyone that wants something from you, like a vote. Get it now? Follow the logic, you’re doing good.

As far as I can tell, the problem is you’ve confused the act of voting with the status of citizenship.

Your responsibility for our country’s actions is due to your status as a citizen. Voting is the absolute-least-effort means of acting according to the responsibilities that befall you due to your status as a citizen. If you believe it would violate your conscience to vote for any of the candidates on the ballot, you have a variety of possible actions you can take while retaining any semblance of moral high ground:

— you could work to get different candidates on the next ballot

— you could run for office yourself

— you could publicly renounce your citizenship

— you could declare war on the United States

Declining to vote, while remaining a citizen and taking advantage of the various services and opportunities which the United States affords its citizens, is nothing to be proud about.

Eric, Can you believe some of these people? And you try to tell me the system is NOT broken. These people are totally clueless. How come you’re not trying to educate these people? Maybe they’d accept what you’d tell them. Talk about confused, uneducated, people. Is this what we get when the schools work for the past 60 plus years to MAKE good citizens rather than educate our children and encourage them to think for themselves?

By the way, I wasn’t talking about “my country.” I was talking about ITS ELECTED GOVERNMENT. That government is put in its legitimate place and Constitutionally authorized to govern ONLY by registered, legal voters – the bedrock of Democratic governance – THE VOTER.

“I’m hoping Obama’s appearance on the Daily Show last night will inspire a few more young voters.”

Joe Blow wrote…

“Vote your hearts out for the best that money can buy.”

and…

“Vote your heart out for these corrupt, bought and paid for craven whores (craven whores because they all pander for your money and your vote). In my book that makes you directly responsible for what they do and don’t do.”

I wrote…

“Your responsibility for our country’s actions is due to your status as a citizen. Voting is the absolute-least-effort means of acting according to the responsibilities that befall you due to your status as a citizen. ”

Joe Blow wrote…

“By the way, I wasn’t talking about “my country.” I was talking about ITS ELECTED GOVERNMENT. That government is put in its legitimate place and Constitutionally authorized to govern ONLY by registered, legal voters – the bedrock of Democratic governance – THE VOTER.”

I conclude… OK, I guess we agree. Or else, I haven’t got a clue what you’re trying to say.

Clueless? Ability to understand is not my problem. Honest and sincere people always ask questions when they don’t understand something or someone. So, why do I persist in trying to talk to such people? I don’t. But, since this is a public forum, some people are able to draw their own enlightened conclusions.

Eric, Conclusions from someone more literate than I. Very apt in view of previous discussions, I think. Here’s the link for the whole article: Job Hunting In Washington by Glenn Greenwald, an apparent progressive liberal.

Anyone who ran around hailing Barack Obama as a would-be champion of civil liberties and who has not by now retracted or at least severely qualified that claim is lacking in the Department of Intellectual Integrity, to put that about as mildly as I can consistent with accuracy.

Eric, Conclusions from someone more literate than I. Very apt in view of previous discussions, I think. Here’s the link for the whole article: Job Hunting In Washington by Glenn Greenwald, an apparent progressive liberal.

Anyone who ran around hailing Barack Obama as a would-be champion of civil liberties and who has not by now retracted or at least severely qualified that claim is lacking in the Department of Intellectual Integrity, to put that about as mildly as I can consistent with accuracy.

Well, given the failure to close Gitmo, and the continuation of warrantless wiretaps, extraordinary renditioning (outsourced torture) and CIA “black sites” for secret extrajudicial detention and probably torture…I do think it would be quite a stretch to refer to Obama at this point as a “champion of civil rights.”

Eric, You need to read the whole article before you start spouting off about “substantial.” Or at least take the time try to read it with some understanding. HOPE is NOT substantial and that’s all you offer. That or vote for corrupt liars and HOPE for the best. There is another choice besides the ones you offer, but then you’d have to admit to something you don’t have the “substance” to do before you could accept that choice. I thought you were better than this. Substantive people deal with the issues and NEVER assault the messenger. Once you assault the messenger you change the rules, and expose your intentions. Too bad, you’re one of the very few that’s been willing to actually engage me. Obama’s record stands, convicts and judges him and everyone that supports him. Not even you can change that. People that live in their dreams underestimate the visceral anger and hatred out here. If you don’t know, substance is made of such things as anger and hatred. Once the betrayal solidifies in people’s minds, I’m afraid we’re all going to get a severe dose of “substance.”