Or we could look at something drastic like the huntsman and see sometimes deviations from the original "plan" can be fun and not game breaking

The original concept behind the Huntsman was actually very conservative:

A Rifle that would not give slowdown when scoped but could not charge up when scoped. It was called the Walkabout. After internal testing, the TF team deemed it too similar to Snipers in Counter Strike; they did not want this. Changing the weapon into a projectile one allowed them to fit that original design without making it too similar to CS sniping.

Fact of the matter is that the most radical primary weapon they've made wasn't that radical to begin with. Don't expect a completely new Medigun that strays extremely far from the original Medigun's functionality, it's going to stay consistent with the hold-to-heal and alt-click-to-activiate formula.

The original concept behind the Huntsman was actually very conservative:

A Rifle that would not give slowdown when scoped but could not charge up when scoped. It was called the Walkabout. After internal testing, the TF team deemed it too similar to Snipers in Counter Strike; they did not want this. Changing the weapon into a projectile one allowed them to fit that original design without making it too similar to CS sniping.

Fact of the matter is that the most radical primary weapon they've made wasn't that radical to begin with. Don't expect a completely new Medigun that strays extremely far from the original Medigun's functionality, it's going to stay consistent with the hold-to-heal and alt-click-to-activiate formula.

Technically, the game classifies the Sticky Launcher as a primary despite it being in the secondary slot.

The idea behind the Close Combat Kit wasn't even to be a Demoman item, but to create an entirely new subclass right out the gate instead of trying to come up with more explosive items (which is difficult to do while making them balanced). The Huntsman still fits the Sniper's original role of ranged spike damage, the CCK just tosses the Demoman ideals out the window to fit a completely different role as a subclass.

Huntsman and Gunslinger are the two items that are considered "subclasses" within the classes, but they still fit the original class designs fairly well, albeit the changes made do invoke a different style of play, you can still play the class as if you were using the stock items (although not to as great of success). The way that the CCK works absolutely requires a different playstyle because it doesn't function remotely similar to the alternatives.

The steep differences between that class and subclass lead me to believe that creating a subclass was their way of creating a 10th class without actually creating a 10th class. The upside of this is that it allows players to mix and match loadout combinations with the base class weaponry for more variety than just a pure-melee class. The downside is that they've gotten a bit carried away with creating subclass weaponry instead of class weaponry.

The original concept behind the Huntsman was actually very conservative:

A Rifle that would not give slowdown when scoped but could not charge up when scoped. It was called the Walkabout. After internal testing, the TF team deemed it too similar to Snipers in Counter Strike; they did not want this. Changing the weapon into a projectile one allowed them to fit that original design without making it too similar to CS sniping.

Fact of the matter is that the most radical primary weapon they've made wasn't that radical to begin with. Don't expect a completely new Medigun that strays extremely far from the original Medigun's functionality, it's going to stay consistent with the hold-to-heal and alt-click-to-activiate formula.

I personally like how the stock weapons are in TF2. Its nicely balanced and has a good variation of gameplay dynamics. The rest of the weapons to me only serve as variations of the stocks and i'm fine with what i get from the team and really ain't expecting some radical new weapons.

What i would like to see are weapons that alter the strategy of the classes. This is why in my book the engineer update is still the most wonderful update we had. i can argue that because of that update, we're all still playing.

I personally like how the stock weapons are in TF2. Its nicely balanced and has a good variation of gameplay dynamics. The rest of the weapons to me only serve as variations of the stocks and i'm fine with what i get from the team and really ain't expecting some radical new weapons.

What i would like to see are weapons that alter the strategy of the classes. This is why in my book the engineer update is still the most wonderful update we had. i can argue that because of that update, we're all still playing.

Stock weapons are the best weapons of the time- there's really only a few weapons that are better than stock (I'm looking at you, equalizer).

I think the heavy chainsaw could make a nice change of pace in playing heavy. The mere fact that it wasn't marked as incompatible in the big workshop reject from last march makes me wish we'll get to see more ofit.

Stock weapons are the best weapons of the time- there's really only a few weapons that are better than stock (I'm looking at you, equalizer).

Stock melees are primarily useless anyway, bar a few exceptions.

Their low range and mediocre damage in comparison to the other stock weapons just make them rarely used.

Shotgun, Rocketlauncher, Minigun, Flamethrower, Scattergun, and both of demoman's explosives deal way more damage at the same range that melee weapons do. Soldier and Heavy are too slow to stay in melee range for more than a single surprise hit. The only excuse that Demoman has is to avoid damaging himself. All of the other classes are support classes who use their Melee only for self-defense in close range because their primaries are not as powerful as the ones belonging to the combat classes.

It's not that the Equalizer is better than Stock. It's that the Stock is just useless for any practical purposes.

Stock weapons are the best weapons of the time- there's really only a few weapons that are better than stock (I'm looking at you, equalizer).

To be honest, I don't even mind straight upgrade for melees, as the melee for 7 out of 9 functions exactly the same, aside for the Wrench.

Straight upgrades on Primary or Secondary are more noticeable and much more game breaking then Melees. I could almost consider the Melee slot as a pseudo-perk slot. Some items like the Solemn Vow, the Amputator, or the Third Degree provide a little bonus that can be useful if you need it.

Examples of non-straight upgrades but can be considered perk-ish are the Atomizer, the Candy Cane, the Eyelander (with heads) and the GRU (I forgot a few...)

i like to think that the whole lore of having complete balance between weapons is something that the tf2 team isn't adhering too sacredly to anymore. Sure they promised before that they want every weapon to have a pro and con and all that. But at this point its more of a guideline than a rule. I'm fine with upgrades too, hell every other game out there is basically pay-to-upgrade, so long as its not over powering and unbalanced.

Maybe it's a large urban map. That would be kind of a cool deviation, having a war "in the hood"

...or it's a promo map for a US bagel chain.

That's a bit too far of a deviation from the map theme that's going on. A vast majority of the maps are in abandoned spytech bases that are in the moutains, forests, desert, or abandoned buildings such as Granary and Junction. The Egyptian maps are the only exceptions.

It'd be unlike them to have a dense urban setting. It would likely become confusing to players if it were like a real urban area, if anything it might be inside an abandoned warehouse that's in an abandoned urban area. Kinda like turbine, but with windows to easily see other buildings from.

That's a bit too far of a deviation from the map theme that's going on. A vast majority of the maps are in abandoned spytech bases that are in the moutains, forests, desert, or abandoned buildings such as Granary and Junction. The Egyptian maps are the only exceptions.

It'd be unlike them to have a dense urban setting. It would likely become confusing to players if it were like a real urban area, if anything it might be inside an abandoned warehouse that's in an abandoned urban area. Kinda like turbine, but with windows to easily see other buildings from.

Could be a re-purposed ghost town. Perhaps either team spawns out of abandoned factories/garages and the center point is the literal center point of town (with the point sitting where a statue may have been or a fountain). Most of the buildings could look condemned and abandoned, perhaps having large fences blocking off the sidewalk and houses with warnings (condemned, unstable structure, etc) plastered onto them.

Keep the distinct Red/Blue contrast going of course, but make most of the look a rusted/faded sort of color. On top of that have places that robots can visibly spawn out of.

What I guess I'm going for is some sort industrial science town with lots of townhouses and shit in the backdrop, giving the implication that something horrible happened here, possibly related to all those robots running about, and the town was abandoned.

a map where you fight in a scrap yard in a big city with a city skybox and background props, but you never actually enter the city would probably be more like TF2.

Basically, the city is the background, the actual map is a scrapyard.

Actually, that goes against one of the main map design philosophies behind maps.

If you go into the developer commentary, Hydro to be specific, you can hear that it was an explicit decision to make the outskirts of maps barren and boring. They want to deter players from wanting to go explore outside of map boundaries and instead focus on the gameplay within the map.

Giving players something to want to explore beyond the fences and rails draws focus away from the important aspects of the map.

Actually, that goes against one of the main map design philosophies behind maps.

If you go into the developer commentary, Hydro to be specific, you can hear that it was an explicit decision to make the outskirts of maps barren and boring. They want to deter players from wanting to go explore outside of map boundaries and instead focus on the gameplay within the map.

Giving players something to want to explore beyond the fences and rails draws focus away from the important aspects of the map.

And then we had Thunder Mountain, which featured tons of shit going on everywhere outside of the map.

Maybe the SoHo map will be like those fake towns that America tested nukes on. A little suburb, kinda like the one in the custom map Tachyon, and inside the houses are cardboard cutouts of nuclear families.

And then we had Thunder Mountain, which featured tons of shit going on everywhere outside of the map.

5:12 PM - [FAUCᴱT] Psychopath: The barren outskirts of maps is the map maker's way of saying "there's nothing interesting out here, just go focus on the map"
5:12 PM - ned_ballad: except on a few maps, one of which is made by valve
5:12 PM - [FAUCᴱT] Psychopath: While there are some maps that have things to explore, they are not immediately visible
5:13 PM - [FAUCᴱT] Psychopath: the pictures in foundry are in a closed room that the doorway too isn't even that visible unless you are explicitly looking for it
5:13 PM - ned_ballad: except for the train in thunder mountain
5:13 PM - ned_ballad: or the port in upward
5:13 PM - ned_ballad: or the sniper in tm
5:13 PM - [FAUCᴱT] Psychopath: there are things to explore, yes. But some of these things require noclip and other abilities that are not available to people who are playing the game as a game
5:14 PM - [FAUCᴱT] Psychopath: easter eggs are exclusions to the outskirts guideline that I was going on about
5:14 PM - [FAUCᴱT] Psychopath: it only applies to the attention of players, not the attention of people who can leave the boundaries of the maps

That's a bit too far of a deviation from the map theme that's going on. A vast majority of the maps are in abandoned spytech bases that are in the moutains, forests, desert, or abandoned buildings such as Granary and Junction. The Egyptian maps are the only exceptions.

It'd be unlike them to have a dense urban setting. It would likely become confusing to players if it were like a real urban area, if anything it might be inside an abandoned warehouse that's in an abandoned urban area. Kinda like turbine, but with windows to easily see other buildings from.