Author
Topic: North Am Unity & End Times Rant (Read 16551 times)

The only way to Orthodox Christian unity is to ignore jurisdictional disputes by focusing on the ONLY Head of the Church--Lord Jesus Christ, our God and Savuiour.I am personally sick to death of the egomaniacal jockeying for power of both Patriarch Bartholomew of Constantinople and Patriarch Alexis of Moscow. This is doing great harm to the Orthodox Church. Neither is a man I admire or look to for spiritual guidance.I accept any jurisdiction that professes the Orthodox Christian faith in the Three-in-One (Trinity): Father-Lord Jesus Christ-Holy Spirit, that acknowledges Lord Jesus as the ONLY Head of His Church, God the Son become Man, crucified for and by our evil (our hatred of LOVE/God and of each other), atoning for our sins, cleansing us; reuniting His soul and body in His glorious Resurrection, restoring His human nature to the original pre-fallen state, restoring our human nature in His; ascending into Father, deifying His human nature, deifying our human nature in His, sending Holy Spirit into us to make us partakers of His Divine-Human nature, partakers of His cleansing, restoration and deification of our human natures. The faith of the Nicene Creed. I accept any jurisdiction that emphasizes love above all, that rejects hatred in any form: abortion, abuse, prejudice, pride, greed, lust, nationalism, racism; that acknowledges the Divine Image in each human person from the beginning,-conception.

I make no distinction between Greek/Byzantine Orthodox and Oriental Orthodox.The Oriental Orthodox churches were not , as Churches, ever monophysitic.As far as the Patriarchate of Kiev is concerned: no it isn't kosher for a Church to make itself a a patriarchate; but it's also not kosher for a Church to make itself autocephalous as the Russian Church did in 1463 and the Church of Greece did in 1833. Both initially rejected by the Patriarchs of Constantinople (Istanbul) but later accepted by them. There is no real difference between a patriarch and an archbishop of an autocephalous church.

The human race is in a very serious state. All Christians are dealing with militant atheism, militant Islam and occultism ( which has become incredibly widespread in the past 40 years). We are all dealing with satanic child-hatred: abortion, abuse, abandonment, neglect, people who put themselves before their children, people who spoil their children (a form of abuse usually not recognized as such), people who actually worship their children (turning them into raving egomaniacs).

Focus on what is important, ignore the picky stuff. Don't discount devout Roman Catholics and Evangelicals; cooperate where you can with them and with other sincere seekers of truth.

We are clearly at the end of the end of the End Times. When people have reached the point of hating their own children we're there; when people have reached the point where they openly mock and blaspheme Lord Jesus, even to the point of mocking His suffering and death for us, we're clearly there. When those who call themselves Christians are denying Him in their own churches (the Great Apostacy which is running through every Christian body on earth and has completely dominated many ), we're clearly there . I seriously doubt we have 20 years to Lord Jesus' manifestation in glory, when He will re-unite the dead with their bodies, show forth the general judgement, leave the haters of Love -the evil- to the outer darkness they have chosen, and create a new universe where Love is all in all.

If you're going to quote me, quote the whole statement. Yes I do stand by that statement --the whole statement. I invite anyone interested to go back and read the whole statement. Expressing lies and hatred about anyone is not of God. How representative that statement was of the 2200 monks on Mount Athos is unknown since only the secretary who wrote it signed it. My guess is it represents the view of about 2/3's, since 80% of the monks are ethnic Greeks (about 7% of Greek-Rite Orthodox) and the Greeks have a different mentality than the other Greek-Rite Orthodox. This is because they are a Mediterranean-European people; culturally and psychologically they most closely resemble Italian Roman Catholics than they do any other traditionally Orthodox ethnic group.

Let's get a sense of reality here. There are 6.8 billion persons on this earth. 2.1 billion of these are NOMINAL Christians; in fact about half of those are even semi-Christian (receive Lord Jesus as Lord and Saviour , as Son of God, which means as demi-God to the father, not as God, which is pretty much the faith of devout Roman Catholics and Evangelicals). There are about 250 million nominal Greek Rite Orthodox; in fact about 100 million believing practising (the rate of practise among nominal Orthodox in Eastern Europe is about 1/3). There are about 60 million nominal Oriental Orthodox (practising probably about 40 million). That's 140 million believing, practising Orthodox Christians in the world. We can't afford these divisions.

The only way to Orthodox Christian unity is to ignore jurisdictional disputes by focusing on the ONLY Head of the Church--Lord Jesus Christ, our God and Savuiour.I am personally sick to death of the egomaniacal jockeying for power of both Patriarch Bartholomew of Constantinople and Patriarch Alexis of Moscow. This is doing great harm to the Orthodox Church. Neither is a man I admire or look to for spiritual guidance.I accept any jurisdiction that professes the Orthodox Christian faith in the Three-in-One (Trinity): Father-Lord Jesus Christ-Holy Spirit, that acknowledges Lord Jesus as the ONLY Head of His Church, God the Son become Man, crucified for and by our evil (our hatred of LOVE/God and of each other), atoning for our sins, cleansing us; reuniting His soul and body in His glorious Resurrection, restoring His human nature to the original pre-fallen state, restoring our human nature in His; ascending into Father, deifying His human nature, deifying our human nature in His, sending Holy Spirit into us to make us partakers of His Divine-Human nature, partakers of His cleansing, restoration and deification of our human natures. The faith of the Nicene Creed. I accept any jurisdiction that emphasizes love above all, that rejects hatred in any form: abortion, abuse, prejudice, pride, greed, lust, nationalism, racism; that acknowledges the Divine Image in each human person from the beginning,-conception.

I make no distinction between Greek/Byzantine Orthodox and Oriental Orthodox.The Oriental Orthodox churches were not , as Churches, ever monophysitic.As far as the Patriarchate of Kiev is concerned: no it isn't kosher for a Church to make itself a a patriarchate; but it's also not kosher for a Church to make itself autocephalous as the Russian Church did in 1463 and the Church of Greece did in 1833. Both initially rejected by the Patriarchs of Constantinople (Istanbul) but later accepted by them. There is no real difference between a patriarch and an archbishop of an autocephalous church.

The human race is in a very serious state. All Christians are dealing with militant atheism, militant Islam and occultism ( which has become incredibly widespread in the past 40 years). We are all dealing with satanic child-hatred: abortion, abuse, abandonment, neglect, people who put themselves before their children, people who spoil their children (a form of abuse usually not recognized as such), people who actually worship their children (turning them into raving egomaniacs).

Focus on what is important, ignore the picky stuff. Don't discount devout Roman Catholics and Evangelicals; cooperate where you can with them and with other sincere seekers of truth.

We are clearly at the end of the end of the End Times. When people have reached the point of hating their own children we're there; when people have reached the point where they openly mock and blaspheme Lord Jesus, even to the point of mocking His suffering and death for us, we're clearly there. When those who call themselves Christians are denying Him in their own churches (the Great Apostacy which is running through every Christian body on earth and has completely dominated many ), we're clearly there . I seriously doubt we have 20 years to Lord Jesus' manifestation in glory, when He will re-unite the dead with their bodies, show forth the general judgement, leave the haters of Love -the evil- to the outer darkness they have chosen, and create a new universe where Love is all in all.

Amen ! Come Lord Jesus.Steve

I accidentally left out the Greek Church (Church of Greece); I apologize and add it here.

And just how do you presume to be able to tell who actuall is a Christian and isn't? Have you interviewed all of them?

We know them by the faith they express and by the fruits they produce. We klnow them by their love , or lack of love.

"Be on your guard against false prophets who come to you in sheep's clothing but underneath are wolves on the prowl. You will know them by their deeds. Do you pick grapes from a thornbushes or figs from prickly plants ? Never. Any sound tree bears sound fruit, while a decayed tree bears bad fruit. A sound tree can not bear bad fruit, any more than a decayed tre ecan bear good fruit. Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. You can tell a tree by it's fruit." --Lord Jesus (Mathew 7: 15-20)

I knew those extra trips to Wendy's would hasten Armeggedon, or at the very least turn them in to raving egomaniacs.

How dare you make light of the fact that here in America, 1/4 of our children are murdered by abortion and another 1/4 are seriously abused--psychologically, sexually, physically. I have dealt with the victims of this abuse--people whose own parents did things to them that would make you vomit. This is not a matter f or you to focus your decadent irony upon. Some realities are very ugly and are not funny. Grow up !

If you're going to quote me, quote the whole statement. Yes I do stand by that statement --the whole statement.

That's too bad.

Quote

I invite anyone interested to go back and read the whole statement. Expressing lies and hatred about anyone is not of God.

You knocked both the Ecumenical Patriarchate and the monks. Who's side are you on exactly (don't answer, "Lord Jesus")?

Quote

How representative that statement was of the 2200 monks on Mount Athos is unknown since only the secretary who wrote it signed it. My guess is it represents the view of about 2/3's, since 80% of the monks are ethnic Greeks (about 7% of Greek-Rite Orthodox) and the Greeks have a different mentality than the other Greek-Rite Orthodox.

You mean like Arabs and Romanians?

Quote

This is because they are a Mediterranean-European people; culturally and psychologically they most closely resemble Italian Roman Catholics than they do any other traditionally Orthodox ethnic group.

Given that Orthodox ethnic identity comes from Greeks, I find that hard to believe.

Quote

Let's get a sense of reality here. There are 6.8 billion persons on this earth. 2.1 billion of these are NOMINAL Christians; in fact about half of those are even semi-Christian (receive Lord Jesus as Lord and Saviour , as Son of God, which means as demi-God to the father, not as God, which is pretty much the faith of devout Roman Catholics and Evangelicals). There are about 250 million nominal Greek Rite Orthodox; in fact about 100 million believing practising (the rate of practise among nominal Orthodox in Eastern Europe is about 1/3). There are about 60 million nominal Oriental Orthodox (practising probably about 40 million). That's 140 million believing, practising Orthodox Christians in the world. We can't afford these divisions.

My guess is it represents the view of about 2/3's, since 80% of the monks are ethnic Greeks (about 7% of Greek-Rite Orthodox) and the Greeks have a different mentality than the other Greek-Rite Orthodox.

Can you source that out for me?? I have it from a priest who recently returned from Mt. Athos that in fact the majority of the monks are ethnic Slavs from Crimea....

Logged

“Find the door of your heart, and you will discover it is the door to the kingdom of God.” - St. John Chrysostom

You knocked both the Ecumenical Patriarchate and the monks. Who's side are you on exactly (don't answer, "Lord Jesus")?

You mean like Arabs and Romanians?

Given that Orthodox ethnic identity comes from Greeks, I find that hard to believe.

Right, which is why all heretics should return to the Church.

It's "too bad" !! Yes, it is too bad you can't be more honest and stright-forward. That's really sad.

I'm not on the side of Bartholomew; I've made that very clear. I'm not on the side of the monks who supported that vicious attack on Pope John Paul II and Pope Benedict. Yes, I try to be on the side of Lord Jesus; I don't always succeed but I do try.

"Orthodox ethnic identity comes from the Greeks."?!!!!--ethnic identity comes from your ethnic group; 93% of Greek Rite Orthodox are not ethnic Greeks. They are about 60% Slavic, then there are Romanians, Syrians, Georgians, Albanians, Finns, , Eskimo and Aleut Indians in Alaska, Chinese, Japanese, Koreans, Nigerians, Camouroons, converts from other ethnic groups (1/3 of Orthodox in America and Canada are converts).

It's "too bad" !! Yes, it is too bad you can't be more honest and stright-forward. That's really sad.

I'm not on the side of Bartholomew; I've made that very clear. I'm not on the side of the monks who supported that vicious attack on Pope John Paul II and Pope Benedict. Yes, I try to be on the side of Lord Jesus; I don't always succeed but I do try.

"Orthodox ethnic identity comes from the Greeks."?!!!!--ethnic identity comes from your ethnic group; 93% of Greek Rite Orthodox are not ethnic Greeks. They are about 60% Slavic, then there are Romanians, Syrians, Georgians, Albanians, Finns, , Eskimo and Aleut Indians in Alaska, Chinese, Japanese, Koreans, Nigerians, Camouroons, converts from other ethnic groups (1/3 of Orthodox in America and Canada are converts).

So Anastasios is a liar and you oppose Patriarch Bartholomew and the monks on Mt. Athos. That's the only thing you've said so far that makes any sense.

Logged

Artillery adds dignity to what would otherwise be a vulgar brawl. ~Frederick the Great

Can you source that out for me?? I have it from a priest who recently returned from Mt. Athos that in fact the majority of the monks are ethnic Slavs from Crimea....

Go to the Mount Athos website. 1800 of the monks are Greeks; the others are Russian, Serbian, Bulgarian and Romanian. There don't appear to be any non-Europeans on Mount Athos.Mount Athos is part of Greece. Crimea is a very small area of Russia. It doesn't really make much sense that most of the monks are from there. Maybe he meant most of the monks at the monastery he visited were from there.

I'm not on the side of Bartholomew; I've made that very clear. I'm not on the side of the monks who supported that vicious attack on Pope John Paul II and Pope Benedict. Yes, I try to be on the side of Lord Jesus; I don't always succeed but I do try.

Try harder. There is no love in your posts.

Logged

"Religion is a neurobiological illness and Orthodoxy is its cure." - Fr. John S. Romanides

Can you source that out for me?? I have it from a priest who recently returned from Mt. Athos that in fact the majority of the monks are ethnic Slavs from Crimea....

The only major concentration of East Slavs is at St. Panteleimon's. IME, Zografu and Hilandar were overwhelmingly Bulgarian and Serbian. Most of the Greek monasteries are at least 75% or so Greek with remaining monks drawn other groups from both traditionally Orthodox ethnicities and converts. Vatopaidi has a high Cypriote population. A few of the smaller sketes are also composed of one dominant ethnic group (the Romanians have a skete just past Great Lavra).

Crimea is a very small area of Russia. It doesn't really make much sense that most of the monks are from there.

Crimea is part of Ukraine that is demographically very Russian. The reason why there are so many ethnic Russian from Ukraine opposed to Russians from the Russian Federation is that it is much easier for a Ukrainian national to obtain a Schengen area visa. Strangely enough there are almost no visa restrictions for a Russian citizen to travel to either Turkey or Egypt, but a pilgrimage to Mt Athos is very difficult to arrange.

Ok - I know you guys know this but to argue with Steve-O is a futile effort. The best way to deal with this sadly misled person is to stop arguing and start praying. No one was ever converted through an arguement. (By the way that's Biblical). Love ya Steve!

Logged

Save us o' Son of God, who art risen from the dead, as we sing to thee Alleluia!

Ok - I know you guys know this but to argue with Steve-O is a futile effort. The best way to deal with this sadly misled person is to stop arguing and start praying. No one was ever converted through an arguement. (By the way that's Biblical). Love ya Steve!

Aserb,We all need constant conversion to Lord Jesus; that is a life-long process.What specifically do you think I need to be converted to ?

Steve get a grip you live in your own little Christian fantasy world of your own making. The best that I could do is tell you the truth. Your opening rant belies the fact that you are Orthodox. You maybe think you are. But you need a healthy dose of reality. The Orthodox church is imperfect but you need to join a local parish and I dare say become a catechumen, be baptized/chrismated and begin living an Orthodox life if you want to call yourself Orthodox.

Logged

Save us o' Son of God, who art risen from the dead, as we sing to thee Alleluia!

It's "too bad" !! Yes, it is too bad you can't be more honest and stright-forward. That's really sad.

Just noticed this post where you are calling me dishonest. I think I am pretty straightforward and honest. But in case you maintain I am not, allow me to clarify: I believe you're a graceless heretic. You are a branch theorist in the fullest sense of the word and you make up your own theology as you go.

Quote

I'm not on the side of Bartholomew; I've made that very clear. I'm not on the side of the monks who supported that vicious attack on Pope John Paul II and Pope Benedict. Yes, I try to be on the side of Lord Jesus; I don't always succeed but I do try.

Right that was my point. You are against both sides of the dispute. So who ARE you for? You are making up theology as you go.

Quote

"Orthodox ethnic identity comes from the Greeks."?!!!!--ethnic identity comes from your ethnic group; 93% of Greek Rite Orthodox are not ethnic Greeks. They are about 60% Slavic, then there are Romanians, Syrians, Georgians, Albanians, Finns, , Eskimo and Aleut Indians in Alaska, Chinese, Japanese, Koreans, Nigerians, Camouroons, converts from other ethnic groups (1/3 of Orthodox in America and Canada are converts).

You are so clueless about Romiosini. Read up on romanity.org and just try to understand what I was referring to. It is definitely not about Greek nationalism. Due to your lack of clarity, I was assuming you meant by Greek practice those who use Byzantine practice such as Romanians and Greeks and Arabs. I didn't mean you were referring to Slavic Orthodox as "Greek Rite." Again, you make classifications as you go.

Just noticed this post where you are calling me dishonest. I think I am pretty straightforward and honest. But in case you maintain I am not, allow me to clarify: I believe you're a graceless heretic. You are a branch theorist in the fullest sense of the word and you make up your own theology as you go.

Right that was my point. You are against both sides of the dispute. So who ARE you for? You are making up theology as you go.

You are so clueless about Romiosini. Read up on romanity.org and just try to understand what I was referring to. It is definitely not about Greek nationalism. Due to your lack of clarity, I was assuming you meant by Greek practice those who use Byzantine practice such as Romanians and Greeks and Arabs. I didn't mean you were referring to Slavic Orthodox as "Greek Rite." Again, you make classifications as you go.

When you don't quote an entire statement and lift things out of context, that is not being honest.

Yes I am against both sides of the dispute: I made that very clear: "2 egomaniacs jockeying for power". They are both in the wrong. What does this have to do with Lord Jesus or the Orthodox Christian faith ?

You're right, I am clueless about Romiosini. What does that word mean ?"Ethnic" refers to your ethnicity, which has nothing to do with your spirituality.I use the term "Greek-Rite" to distinguish the Orthodox of the Greek/Byzantine Rite, the Rite of Constantinople ,from the Oriental Orthodox -- for the purpose of clarity.

Yes I am a branch theorist to a point. Lord Jesus established His Church. He did not establish a Greek Church, or a Syrian or Egyptian or Roman, etc. etc.Because He is always beyond our ideas and images of Him (He is Who He is), His Church, His Body is always beyond what we think it is. It can not be identified fully with any earthly branch. Orthodox Christianity (Greek + all the Oriental)has retained the clearest understanding of the faith. But we only can come close to this understanding if we are focused upon Lord Jesus, if we have a relationship with Him. If we don't have a closer relationship with Him, a deeper sense of Him and His love for us, a deeper love for our neighbor, a greater compassion and understanding of our neighbor now than we did a year ago--we are going in the WRONG direction.

You are an Old Calendarist Greek Orthodox , a branch that regards The Patriarchate of Constantinople and the Church of Greece and the others who adopted it, as heretical , for adopting the Gregorian calendar. To me a non-issue. Use whichever calender you want. That doesn't effect anything basic.

Tell me Anastasios--Who is Jesus to you ? I've asked you that before but you refuse to answer. You and others on this website never refer to Him; that makes me VERY UNCOMFORTABLE with you. It seems as if some of you have created a Jesus-less "Orthodoxy". That of course would not be Christian, not be Orthodox; it would be total apostacy.

By the way: you had no business adding "end times rant " to my post. That was an abuse of your authority as moderator.