NYU vs GULC

How's it going? Finally made an account so I could get some direct feedback. Love all the info on this site. So basically I got waitlisted at every T-14 except HYS(didn't apply). And GULC is offering 35k/year. I'm a 3.3x, 177 splitter.

Goals: Born and Raised in NYC, ideally where I would go back to after law school.Shooting for Biglaw

Dilemma:I'm plan on riding out most of the waitlists, but if nothing pans out is GULC with 105K a good move. Should I reapply ED somewhere next cycle, but risk pissing off GULC? My main concern is if I don't make the biglaw train can I earn enough to cover the 100k (+25k from UG) in loans? For the private sector is there just BIglaw at 160k and then shitlaw at 60k or is there something in the middle?

Thanks in advance!

Last edited by johnlawrence430 on Sat May 12, 2012 6:27 pm, edited 2 times in total.

If you sit this year out and ED somewhere next year, I wouldn't imagine you'll get a comparable scholarship offer since the ED school has your attendance guaranteed. With that in mind, 105k at GULC sounds like a pretty good choice.

Flips88 wrote:Did you apply late or something? With your numbers, you were very likely to get into multiple T-14s, i'm specifically thinking Michigan, Cornell, Duke, and probably Northwestern (who likes splitters).

given his gpa though, are any of them likely to offer $$ close to 105K? GULC with that scholarship > any T14 short of HYS at sticker.

Flips88 wrote:Did you apply late or something? With your numbers, you were very likely to get into multiple T-14s, i'm specifically thinking Michigan, Cornell, Duke, and probably Northwestern (who likes splitters).

given his gpa though, are any of them likely to offer $$ close to 105K? GULC with that scholarship > any T14 short of HYS at sticker.

Fair point and yeah, doubt he gets as amazing a scholarship offer from anywhere else. His GPA knocks you out of HYS contention so GULC with $35k is a solid choice to make.

f0bolous wrote:GULC with that scholarship > any T14 short of HYS at sticker.

This is my thought process as well. I don't see HYS coming through nor do I see any other T14 coming close to the amount of $ that GULC is throwing here. But maybe NU might, they seem to be giving ridic money this cycle.

Flips88 wrote:Did you apply late or something? With your numbers, you were very likely to get into multiple T-14s, i'm specifically thinking Michigan, Cornell, Duke, and probably Northwestern (who likes splitters).

given his gpa though, are any of them likely to offer $$ close to 105K? GULC with that scholarship > any T14 short of HYS at sticker.

Fair point and yeah, doubt he gets as amazing a scholarship offer from anywhere else. His GPA knocks you out of HYS contention so GULC with $35k is a solid choice to make.

I say take it too. Besides, duke and Cornell tend not be splitter friendly, so im not sure why they were mentioned. Go to gulc.

Thanks for the advice everyone. As for applying late I submitted my apps by 12/3, which I don't think is to late. I do still have to hear back from Cornell but I doubt its gonna be good news this late in the cycle. But hypothetically what kind of scholarship from them would be enough in conjunction with its better big law placement to sway you away form GULC

envisciguy wrote:If you sit this year out and ED somewhere next year, I wouldn't imagine you'll get a comparable scholarship offer since the ED school has your attendance guaranteed. With that in mind, 105k at GULC sounds like a pretty good choice.

No offense, but bad advice. With a 3.3X GPA it would be pretty hard to turn town 105 from GULC. That's a pretty great deal and obviously T14.

envisciguy wrote:If you sit this year out and ED somewhere next year, I wouldn't imagine you'll get a comparable scholarship offer since the ED school has your attendance guaranteed. With that in mind, 105k at GULC sounds like a pretty good choice.

No offense, but bad advice. With a 3.3X GPA it would be pretty hard to turn town 105 from GULC. That's a pretty great deal and obviously T14.

Are you sure you read his post?

johnlawrence430 wrote:Thanks for the advice everyone. As for applying late I submitted my apps by 12/3, which I don't think is to late. I do still have to hear back from Cornell but I doubt its gonna be good news this late in the cycle. But hypothetically what kind of scholarship from them would be enough in conjunction with its better big law placement to sway you away form GULC

12/3 is definitely late for splitters. That said, the scholly you got from GULC is unlikely to be approached, much less matched, by other T14 schools even with a more timely application. I won't bother with the Cornell hypothetical, because they're not going to give a non-URM with a 3.3x any money -- just look at LSN.

envisciguy wrote:If you sit this year out and ED somewhere next year, I wouldn't imagine you'll get a comparable scholarship offer since the ED school has your attendance guaranteed. With that in mind, 105k at GULC sounds like a pretty good choice.

No offense, but bad advice. With a 3.3X GPA it would be pretty hard to turn town 105 from GULC. That's a pretty great deal and obviously T14.

Um....I'm pretty sure we agree on this issue. I was saying it's not a good idea to sit out and ED next year. I don't know of any school that would offer 105k to an ED applicant, and the splitter status makes that even more unlikely. That's why GULC sounds like too good an opportunity to pass up.

Hey everyone so I was recently admitted to NYU off of the wait list. Im so happy but now I face a tough choice. They say they don't have any more merit aid but they do still have need based aid. (If anyone is eligible for financial aid its me) Regardless NYU is my dream school and my goal is big law in NYC. So i have a few questions

1. Does anyone know how NYU is with need aid?2. Would I be completely stupid to turn down Gtown's offer for NYU? (Also I could live with family in NY and save on COL)3. Would the fact that I was admitted off of the wait list mean I'm less likely to be successful at NYU?

I really want NYU but I don't want to make a stupid decision so any insight would be great. Thank you!

johnlawrence430 wrote:Hey everyone so I was recently admitted to NYU off of the wait list. Im so happy but now I face a tough choice. They say they don't have any more merit aid but they do still have need based aid. (If anyone is eligible for financial aid its me) Regardless NYU is my dream school and my goal is big law in NYC. So i have a few questions

1. Does anyone know how NYU is with need aid?2. Would I be completely stupid to turn down Gtown's offer for NYU? (Also I could live with family in NY and save on COL)3. Would the fact that I was admitted off of the wait list mean I'm less likely to be successful at NYU?

I really want NYU but I don't want to make a stupid decision so any insight would be great. Thank you!

2. Not necessarily. How much would you be able to save on each year on COL in NYC? NYU gives you a significantly better shot at NYC BigLaw.

This is a tough choice, and it really depends on how debt averse you are.

But based on:

johnlawrence430 wrote:Shooting for BiglawMy main concern is if I don't make the biglaw train can I earn enough to cover the 100k (+25k from UG) in loans? Thanks in advance!

With 100k+ in debt from GULC, you'll still need biglaw/lrap to cover the loans. Your chances of striking out for biglaw/lrap are noticeably higher if you attend GULC than if you attend NYU. Therefore, NYU would be the less riskier option in my mind. It essentially boils down to whether GULC is worth an extra 105k in risk.

Take the money. While you'd still need biglaw to pay it off, you don't run the risk of being assfucked by debt if you happen to get biglaw and not stay in it for more than 5 years (which would happen at NYU).

bk1 wrote:Take the money. While you'd still need biglaw to pay it off, you don't run the risk of being assfucked by debt if you happen to get biglaw and not stay in it for more than 5 years (which would happen at NYU).

I agree with this. That's a ton of money. Gulc places decently in NY and the oci threads seem to corroborate that most people there bid heavily on dc but did much better in ny. Plus COL favors DC marginally.

I'm thinking we should get some more specifics on this before making hard pronouncements. This could certainly narrow the COA difference considerably and make NYU a much more reasonable pick than it would be if COL expenses weren't mitigated to an extent.

johnlawrence430 wrote:Hey everyone so I was recently admitted to NYU off of the wait list. Im so happy but now I face a tough choice. They say they don't have any more merit aid but they do still have need based aid. (If anyone is eligible for financial aid its me) Regardless NYU is my dream school and my goal is big law in NYC. So i have a few questions

1. Does anyone know how NYU is with need aid?2. Would I be completely stupid to turn down Gtown's offer for NYU? (Also I could live with family in NY and save on COL)3. Would the fact that I was admitted off of the wait list mean I'm less likely to be successful at NYU?

I really want NYU but I don't want to make a stupid decision so any insight would be great. Thank you!

1. I'm pretty sure that with the exception of something like An-Bryce, there isn't any such thing as need-based aid at NYU (I could be wrong on this though).

2. Not necessarily. The question is how much do you want to risk being $100k in debt with no job/LRAP that will help you deal with it? There is probably less than a 50% chance of getting biglaw from Georgetown, at NYU 80% of people who tried to get biglaw jobs last fall got them. That said, $100k is payable with the $50k or so non-big law salary if you get at least some job from Georgetown (which most do, even if they aren't big law) but it won't be pleasant. Paying down that extra $105k from NYU, even with big law, is probably equally unpleasant. Basically if you go to NYU and you kill it, you might regret spending the extra $105k. If you go to NYU and you are median or below, you might feel relieved that you did.

3. Waitlist means nothing when it comes to performance. Pretty sure the top student in my section last semester was waitlisted. Waitlist acceptees have the same potential to succeed at NYU as the regular admits, they usually just hurt the numbers. I mean if the reason you got a 3.3 was poor study habits and you continue those poor study habits in law school, then yes you probably won't do as well (or if someone were waitlisted due to a low LSAT score and that low LSAT score was the result of crippling test anxiety, if that doesn't change that person also probably won't do well). A 177 demonstrates that you are either really good at test performance and/or that you were capable for that one time to do what you needed to do to outperform most people. If you can channel whatever made that successful into law school, you should be fine.

2. Not necessarily. The question is how much do you want to risk being $100k in debt with no job/LRAP that will help you deal with it? There is probably less than a 50% chance of getting biglaw from Georgetown, at NYU 80% of people who tried to get biglaw jobs last fall got them. That said, $100k is payable with the $50k or so non-big law salary if you get at least some job from Georgetown (which most do, even if they aren't big law) but it won't be pleasant. Paying down that extra $105k from NYU, even with big law, is probably equally unpleasant. Basically if you go to NYU and you kill it, you might regret spending the extra $105k. If you go to NYU and you are median or below, you might feel relieved that you did.

This statement isn't really taking into account more self-selection into non-biglaw at GULC. Speaking as a GULC student, the fact is that if you do well enough your first year (above median, really, and even if not it's not necessarily a wash) you should be in a strong position to get interviews/offers during EIW for NYC. This year's 2L class did well and hiring definitely was up. So, frankly, I think taking the $105K from GULC is a very good decision. And if biglaw ultimately isn't in the cards for you because your interests change, we obviously have a strong LRAP and plenty of avenues into public interest.

If you go to NYU and kill it, your chances are the same as when you go to GULC and kill it in many cases. My .02 cents.

2. Not necessarily. The question is how much do you want to risk being $100k in debt with no job/LRAP that will help you deal with it? There is probably less than a 50% chance of getting biglaw from Georgetown, at NYU 80% of people who tried to get biglaw jobs last fall got them. That said, $100k is payable with the $50k or so non-big law salary if you get at least some job from Georgetown (which most do, even if they aren't big law) but it won't be pleasant. Paying down that extra $105k from NYU, even with big law, is probably equally unpleasant. Basically if you go to NYU and you kill it, you might regret spending the extra $105k. If you go to NYU and you are median or below, you might feel relieved that you did.

This statement isn't really taking into account more self-selection into non-biglaw at GULC. Speaking as a GULC student, the fact is that if you do well enough your first year (above median, really, and even if not it's not necessarily a wash) you should be in a strong position to get interviews/offers during EIW for NYC. This year's 2L class did well and hiring definitely was up. So, frankly, I think taking the $105K from GULC is a very good decision. And if biglaw ultimately isn't in the cards for you because your interests change, we obviously have a strong LRAP and plenty of avenues into public interest.

If you go to NYU and kill it, your chances are the same as when you go to GULC and kill it in many cases. My .02 cents.

So you're taking issue with the statement of less than 50% chance and then describing it as if you get above median you have a chance? Hmm...

Anyway, I don't think NYU is necessarily worth 100k more than GULC, but it depends on personal goals, etc.