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Arredondo is a lefty killer. And Cingrani was expected to move to the pen when he got to the majors. He's there. I'm good with how the pen is right now. Look for Leake or Bailey (or maybe Arroyo?) to be moved at the winter meetings.

I don't think selling high on Cueto is out of the question either if the return is great enough.

The one constant through all the years, Ray, has been baseball. America has rolled by like an army of steamrollers. It has been erased like a blackboard, rebuilt and erased again. But baseball has marked the time. -- Terrance Mann (Field of Dreams)

Re: Reds Sign Jonathan Broxton- 3 Years, $21m; 4th Year option

I don't hate the move, but I don't love it either. I am nervous about Chapman to the rotation and I am nervous of Broxton staying healthy.

I know it's a minority opinion but I would much prefer to leave Chapman alone in the 9th inning for the next 5 years.

Those are inherent risks, which by definition are a part of the business and there isn't anything you can do about them. While you can take steps to insure against inherent risks with depth, they should not prevent you from taking the risk in the first place. Sure, its a risk that Chapman might not be effective in the rotation. But there's also the reward that makes the risk worthwhile. It was right to be "nervous" about Chapman being signed in the first place. Now, the risk was taken, and the reward is being realized, first as a setup reliever in pennant race, then as a closer in another playoff run, perhaps this year the reward for the risk is a nasty rotation that's even better than last year.

To maximize an investment, a risk will usually have to be taken at some point. With Broxton's injury risk, I'm sure you are referring to his large body. Ryan Madson is skinny as a rail and he was injured. Pitchers are ALWAYS an injury risk. Let's not spend money on any of them--also known as The Jim Bowden Theory on Pitching Staffs.

Re: Reds Sign Jonathan Broxton- 3 Years, $21m; 4th Year option

Originally Posted by Dan

Arredondo is a lefty killer. And Cingrani was expected to move to the pen when he got to the majors. He's there. I'm good with how the pen is right now. Look for Leake or Bailey (or maybe Arroyo?) to be moved at the winter meetings.

I don't think selling high on Cueto is out of the question either if the return is great enough.

Thankfully, the Reds don't subscribe to the "bullpen will take care of itself" philosophy. You could be right, but I fully expect a lefty reliever to be acquired.

Arredondo was quite poor in the second half. Not sure he will be with the club next year, and if he is he has a lot to prove.

I still like Cingrani as a starter in AAA. If the Reds hold onto Arroyo this season, they will have room for a young starter in 2014. I'd give Cingrani a chance to get ready as a starter at AAA, before possibly converting him to the pen.

Re: Reds Sign Jonathan Broxton- 3 Years, $21m; 4th Year option

Originally Posted by traderumor

Those are inherent risks, which by definition are a part of the business and there isn't anything you can do about them. While you can take steps to insure against inherent risks with depth, they should not prevent you from taking the risk in the first place. Sure, its a risk that Chapman might not be effective in the rotation. But there's also the reward that makes the risk worthwhile. It was right to be "nervous" about Chapman being signed in the first place. Now, the risk was taken, and the reward is being realized, first as a setup reliever in pennant race, then as a closer in another playoff run, perhaps this year the reward for the risk is a nasty rotation that's even better than last year.

To maximize an investment, a risk will usually have to be taken at some point. With Broxton's injury risk, I'm sure you are referring to his large body. Ryan Madson is skinny as a rail and he was injured. Pitchers are ALWAYS an injury risk. Let's not spend money on any of them--also known as The Jim Bowden Theory on Pitching Staffs.

Brox is an injury risk.

But the injury he had in 2011 could also be a plus.

It might be that JB wasn't quite ready last year after the injured 2011. Maybe another year off the injury list will make him stronger and better.

He was better late in the season when the Royals traded him to the Reds. Maybe after a winter off he will be even better.

Re: Reds Sign Jonathan Broxton- 3 Years, $21m; 4th Year option

Hard to not like this deal, IMO. Barring an injury, this isn't a bad signing AT ALL, especially considering the influx of money that MLB is about to see and the way contracts are trending. $7MM AAV isn't a lot of money anymore.

Re: Reds Sign Jonathan Broxton- 3 Years, $21m; 4th Year option

3 for 21M seems like a pretty good deal for the Reds. As recently as 2011, they were paying Francisco Cordero 12M a year to (try to) close out games. Getting Broxton for barely half that seems like a steal.

Re: Reds Sign Jonathan Broxton- 3 Years, $21m; 4th Year option

It might be that JB wasn't quite ready last year after the injured 2011. Maybe another year off the injury list will make him stronger and better.

He was better late in the season when the Royals traded him to the Reds. Maybe after a winter off he will be even better.

But is it a higher injury risk? What, because he's carrying 50-70 extra pounds? I think he has the same risk as any pitcher, which means its an inherent risk and not worth mentioning as a downside factor of the signing.

Re: Reds Sign Jonathan Broxton- 3 Years, $21m; 4th Year option

Originally Posted by Dan

Arredondo is a lefty killer. And Cingrani was expected to move to the pen when he got to the majors. He's there. I'm good with how the pen is right now. Look for Leake or Bailey (or maybe Arroyo?) to be moved at the winter meetings.

I don't think selling high on Cueto is out of the question either if the return is great enough.

I just don't see how they can afford to trade a starter unless they're adding another starter via trade or free agency. Not only is it unrealistic to expect everyone to stay healthy, it's crazy to think Chapman can go from closer to much more than 150 innings next season. They need rotation depth more than ever.

Re: Reds Sign Jonathan Broxton- 3 Years, $21m; 4th Year option

I like the deal. I am a proponent of good to great bull pens. You get as many good live arms as you can and your going to win a lot of games. Its a sea change from the days of David Weathers at the closer and picking up Estaban Yan off the scrap heap to help out the pen.

Re: Reds Sign Jonathan Broxton- 3 Years, $21m; 4th Year option

Originally Posted by traderumor

But is it a higher injury risk? What, because he's carrying 50-70 extra pounds? I think he has the same risk as any pitcher, which means its an inherent risk and not worth mentioning as a downside factor of the signing.

Brox had serious elbow/shoulder problems in 2011 with the Dodgers. I don't know what that means for the future, but it is something worth mentioning as a potential issue with the signing.

A good signing, but there is an injury risk, possibly more than the average pitcher I'd guess.

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