Past just the Japanese number itself, the main takeaway we get from the result is Toyota’s sheer ability to produce and deliver its popular model, and so quickly after its introduction.

For May 2017, we currently have a running total of 7,501 copies sold for the month globally (not all numbers are in – but pretty much all, at least when it comes to areas where Prius PHV is sold) .

Since the model’s introduction in February, Toyota has delivered 12,134 copies of the plug-in Prius in just Japan.

In the US in May, Toyota sold almost every copy it could ship, noting 1,908 sales(with an average ‘days on lot’ inventory level of just ~9 days), giving the Prius Prime the “top selling” plug-in crown for the second consecutive month in America.

1. Who the H told you “it can’t regen”? That would be totally weird given that Toyota’s entire hybrid line dating 20 years back, is based on regen

2. You might have failed to notice that the i3 REx costs about 2x as much as the Prime after incentives.

3. In 2017 terms it’s definitely a base-level PHEV, but 25 miles EPA are equal to the median US-metro commute distance, and there are other PHEVs besides Ford’s with even shorter range (Audi comes to mind). The Prime also sports the highest MPGe among all PHEVs sold in the US. So certainly not the worst. If you’re trying to be objective, that is.

To claim it’s “one pack” and then say a portion of it is for EV and another for HV is to be obviously confused about, or consciously abusing, the term “battery pack”. It doesn’t necessarily follow only the HV portion can be charged by regen, but that’s certainly the logical thing to do. With the possible exception of coming down a mountain there’s just no need for a bigger buffer to store the recuperated energy.

But really, both sides would do well to offer some credible source if they have one.

It’s a single physical battery-pack. There has been a collection of photos showing its design & layout. Using the software-specified HV threshold to raise doubt is a blatant effort to mislead, especially after 5 years of real-world data clearly confirming no separation beyond just how it is labeled.

Simply look up “stacking” for proof. That’s how gen-1 owners used regen to exceed the HV threshold for more EV without plugging in when in flat areas.

Google is your friend if you are interested in the Prime’s battery pack. It’s not hard to use. You will find that the Prime has a 8.8 kwh battery that can be charged by plug or by regeneration. There is no separate ‘Li-ion’ and ‘hybrid’ battery: they are one and the same. When the 8.8 kwh battery pack is drained below a certain threshold then the car enters hybrid mode and the engine will come on to supply power as necessary.

The Li-ion battery wasn’t drained to zero, it was just drained below the threshold where the car could operate on battery-only, so the car entered hybrid mode and displayed zero electric range left. Just like happens on any plug-in hybrid when the you use up your electric only range

You’ve had testimony from a Prime owner that he regenerated 10 miles of electric-only range coming down a mountain. Research a little about the Prime’s design and you will find that the traction battery is a single 8.8 kwh Li-ion pack: there is no additional “hybrid” battery.

Toyota is a mega-corporation that operates in the interest of its shareholders. That doesn’t make it evil, or good.

They generally sell products that are a reasonable value, and they were open-minded enough to pioneer the hybrid-electric vehicle, which, with more than 10 million sold, have done more to save gasoline and avoid pollution than any other car company’s efforts on “green” cars of any sort.

Anyone who touts the MPG rating on gas mode of the PHEV is trying to undermine EVs.

Yes, I know. You will then tout the efficiency of the Prime in EV mode. But with its slow 0-60mph times of 12 seconds, it is also undermining all other EVs by showing the world that an efficient EV means “slow EV”.

Ben, you don’t know John. He’s a Toyota troll, and has trolled every other plugin for years. His feelings got hurt when others started making plugins and Toyota’s hybrid tech was obsolete/left in the dust. He preached against them. Then Toyota finally came out with the PiP, a plugin with just 6 miles of EV range. At that point he said that was the BEST RANGE OUT THERE, and anything more than that was a waste. Toyota didn’t agree, and finally increased the range (but lost a seat, which apparently doesn’t matter now). Now 25 MILES IS THE BEST RANGE EVER. He’s transparent as hell; a Toyota shill for life.

I have owned three Hyundai products! All three underperformed in the m.p.g. department. Third Prius and I originally thought Toyota was a cult! Nope, they over achiev in m.p.g. , New prime is a huge surprise always charging to 34 ish miles after charge! Way more then the 25 Toyota advertises.

Fuelly is useless for Volt, half the time I tried to enter data for my Volt it complains that the MPG is too high and it throws it out. It isn’t set up to consider dual fuel usage and the fact I often go more than 1000 miles while using less than 1 gallon of fuel from the tank.

“Yet on fuelly.com, owners report that the Prius Prime gives them 76.3 MPGe, which is higher than the average MPGe reported for the Volt.”

BS.

1. It is MPG, not MPGe.
2. It all depends on how stupid owners enter it.
3. 2017 Prime shows 76.3mpg where 2017 Volt shows 84.2 mpg. Even if you average in 2016 Volt, it is still higher than the 76.3mpg figure from Prime.

You would have average gen 1 Volt to get lower. But Gen1 numbers were impacted by how people mixing MPG and MPGe.

Exactly. It’s amazing how many morons think that gallons of fuel consumed divided by miles driven says anything whatsoever about efficiency when some unspecified portion – anywhere between 0% to 100% – of those miles were driven using another energy source.

It’s as if I were to brag I’ve managed to survive eating only a small bunch of grapes this year – the amount of grapes may be true, but if we know nothing about what else I ate it’s not a very meaningful way to measure my energy efficiency!

The EPA efficiency is MPGe, so all my other foods are expressed in grape equivalents. And it’s also taking charging losses into account, because it measures the energy delivered from the socket. And it’s 55 for the stupid Prime, which is to say a 30% improvement over any old Prius. If they’d made a half decent BEV instead the improvement would be something like 200% instead (from ~42 to ~125 MPGe).

MX should check out the sales for plug-in hybrids. So far in 2017, the Volt is tops, with 9187 thru May, and the Prius Prime is 2nd, with 8073. The BMW I3, with no breakout for models with the small gas engine, is way down at 2425, below both of the Ford plug-ins (combined 7800 sold). I think people are voting for both value and utility. The BMW I3 is deficient in both.

It isn’t ugly in Japan where is its main market and where Prius was top selling car in 2016. It is ugly in the US mostly where people prefer more old-fashioned designs. Typical “American” brand car designs may also look amazingly ugly, too flashy/cheap, weird and out of this time to many people out of North America, not used to such design. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

A Cessna isn’t a Learjet, the prime does a lot of things well. A bigger battery would require a bigger engine to pull it. Even that extra seat changes the calculations.
I am happy with my prime, over 5000 miles with an average of 87 mpg.

Yes, bigger engine would be needed for 5th seat… because PiP is at the edge of structural strength. Toyota choose too weak a platform for it, and instead of expensive redesign just cut 5th chair. Bigger platform => bigger engine for the same performance.

I will accept technically correct. Price is also a factor in design and material. My Cessna comparison is a case in point, weight, price, design.
Just don’t fly it into a storm.
Same is true for the prime, it isn’t for bad roads.
I don’t know how it will be as an old car, will the variable drive hold up?
I am kinda hoping battery technology will advance to the point where in 10 years a higher density storage package will fit in the same space, and I can retire the existing pack for home storage on solar panels.
It is an asperational purchase, so far am am pleased. I am glad I got a knob on my radio and buttons for the AC.

Remember they don’t have the Volt in Japan. So this is probably one of the best PHEV offerings available there. Still, that is an impressive number of PHEVs to be sold over there in one month as we’ve never even seen a number that high in the USA which is a much larger market.

No, we don’t need much longer range. We don’t even know if this is being plugged in. Due to biased incentives and HOV access rule in places like California, this could be replacing the regular Prius hybrids. Still better than pure ICE with no regen. The trunk of Prius Prime is already quite shallow because of the battery pack. We don’t need any smaller. With workplace charging, this can cut 80-90% of gas usage.

Instead, Toyota should make more of these and sell more in numbers all around the world at prices competitive with ICE cars. That will help a lot of people get off ICE.

If they got nothing to lose, then triple the production quickly then. Sell every copy it can make.

Obviously it seems that Toyota got at least 100,000 annual spare capacity on the conventional Prius line (that is about how much its sales have dropped from the peak Prius sales in the US). So, it shouldn’t have any issues to boost Prime number to 50K per year unless it doesn’t have enough battery capacity. Why wouldn’t it? Because it doesn’t plan well or doesn’t want to sell more?

Toyota built the RAV4 EV… but paid Tesla to develop the EV powertrain, because Toyota wasn’t willing to spend the R&D money to do that themselves.

Toyota has also, in recent years, repeatedly claimed that fool cell cars, not BEVs, are the wave of the future.

Toyota, like Ford, needs to get serious about developing and selling compelling BEVs, or at least fully capable switch-hitter PHEVs, like the Volt, if they don’t want to be among the auto makers who go out of business during the EV revolution. They need to get serious about that very fast… if it’s not already too late for them to catch up.

About the best you can say for the Prius Prime and its wholly inadequate 25 miles of EV range, is that at least it’s a slight improvement over the previous Prius Plug-in’s ~11 miles of EV range.

Toyota does its job for its customers (and for environment too), in the way that makes sense, and not in the way to please some arm-chair EV “revolutionaries” fantasizing about miracle batteries and hating the world for not going their fantasy way.

Toyota’s 10 million hybrid cumulative sales number and emissions reduced by these hybrids speaks for itself. Much more real difference, not hot air from Veblen goods producers that create more pollution manufacturing their electron guzzlers than an average car would ever produce in its useful lifetime.

The 50% of miles driven on ICE will be at DOUBLE the MPG of a regular car.

Therefore a PP will reduce gasoline consumption vs a regular car by 75%.

If your goal is to reduce consumption of gasoline across the board by 15% then isn’t selling a PP-like vehicle that is affordable and has no range anxiety to 20% of the car market (and thus reducing gas consumption by .75*0.20 or 15%) far easier to do and more cost effective than trying to cling to 1% market share of an overly subsidized pure BEV market that can’t survive on its own, requires massive infrastructure changes, and buyers have wholeheartedly rejected at all but the most ludicrous levels of money losing pricing?

I guess if the masses like it then it must be bad right? Or is it that any consumer with half a brain would logically chose a PP over a pure BEV any day because it just makes more sense in their world at their economic reality.

( You should actually drive a Real EV before you say that. Respectfully. The Prime offers a Hybrid experience. It in no way gives you an EV experience. It doesn’t have a battery in the floor, so it doesn’t block road noise. It doesn’t have the Acceleration of a real EV, because it’s electric motors are tiny. )

It is smug and promotion of consumerism. Make things more expensive than necessary, consume more, trash more, outsource all dirty production somewhere else out of your backyard and don’t give … about it, demand more tax money to support it, and so on.

If you want a “proper” one that you can show to neighbors to signal your virtue, and which costs 50-100-150k as direct result of being “proper”, as well creates more emissions from manufacturing and mining than average hybrid over lifetime, it is available to you. But these “proper” cars are irrelevant to real life families even in the US with $56k median gross household income, that would struggle to come up with money for couple of $20k new cars. Not to mention developing countries with lower disposable income and likely less subsidies to buy luxury cars.

Toyota is positioned to sell a ton of plug-ins fairly quickly by fitting a bigger battery on their existing hybrids.

But, don’t you think it prudent to start off with one model and make sure it’s going well before expanding the lineup? I do.

Plus there’s the issue of where you fit the extra battery: Toyota’s other hybrids are already adaptations of ICE designs, which already make sacrifices in cargo-space and utility. Fitting a big enough battery to be useful on a larger car like a Camry is going to seriously impact the cargo space and utility, so it may not be the best idea until you can do a major redesign to accommodate.

i3 REX or no REX is already available worldwide, including Japan. Unlike GM/Ford, BMW takes Japan market seriously (they even fitted Chademo outlet to Japanese i3) and generate good sales of their cars, including i3, as much as it is possible for its price and utility.

Anybody with money can buy it. If you think Toyota can magically produce the same significantly cheaper just by changing the badge, it is a bit naive.

Excellent News. PP is priced at $33K in Japan may be pricey and probably it needed some discounts to move it.

Prius Prime is the first Plugin Vehicle to cross 5,000 mark in sales in a single market. The other models being purely Battery Electric Vehicles.

So the global tally in May-2017 stands at 40K (China) + 16K (USA) + 1K (Canada) + 5K+ (Japan) = 62K with EU yet to be counted. If EU makes it 18K, then the tally will cross 80K which is a massive number for a non quarter ending month like May. I hope from June onwards every month will hit 80K sales with December crossing 110K and Worldwide sales exceeding 1 million.

As a cost conscious consumer I really struggle with the whole Volt vs Prime purchase analysis.

Sure the Volt has more pick up and more range but if you don’t need it why spend all the extra $$… Not to mention when you go on longer trips it can easily be more fuel efficient and overall cheaper to operate.

30 miles of EV from a 25-mile rating is nice, but it really does come down to looking beyond electric-only range.

As more Prime fill our roads, that real-world data will become more prominent. Seeing 199.9 MPG on the screen is what will solidify the purchase decision. No complicated math or detailed spreadsheet is required. It really is that simple.

Notice the level of desperation of some to paint an ugly picture for Prime?

That extreme is confirmation of a paradigm shift.

They see the true competition. It isn’t other plug-in vehicle. It’s traditional vehicles… and reality is about to come crashing down soon, when the tax-credits trigger phaseout.

The measure of success comes from replacement of those guzzlers. A plug-in with a “right sized” battery will compel the masses to buy. Drawing attention isn’t enough. It’s all about high-volume profitable sales.

Change doesn’t come from someone like you who takes the time to consider detailed analysis. Change comes from those shopping the showroom floor who take an unexpected pause to consider the purchase of a plug-in vehicle, a thought they hadn’t ever entertained.

If Toyota had spent as much effort on the Prime as it did on the Mirai, the Prime would already have 45 miles+ EV range and 60mpg while cost less than $30K. Sure, it would still be slow. =) But at least it would be a more practical PHEV.

But no. Why not? Because it doesn’t want to make the Mirai looking so bad compared against it.

I’d say they sized the battery where they did because they are making a play to be one of first mass market plug-in vehicles. Pricing and space considerations dictated they keep the battery relatively small.

The Mirai is a long term play: nothing anyone expects to be mass market any time soon. The Prime on the other hand will probably sell more than 100,000 copies worldwide this year, and a lot more than that next year when supply meets demand the whole year.

Sure, it has to be 25 miles, not 30 miles? Or why wouldn’t it be 20 miles so it can be even cheaper and pick up the 5th seat?

What is the excuse for not giving it more EV performance? Those are pretty much “free” in terms of design. More powerful motors don’t cost more. 0-60mph times can be improved with gearing but impacts high rpm efficiency.

Those are the active decision Toyota choose in trying to “keep its marketing title” of hyper efficiency rather than making the car more appealing to a bigger/wider audience.

Toyota is guilty at “capping” the appeal of hybrid by dominating the hybrid market with the Prius but did so with a poor image of something that drives like a POS. So, the negative image of hybrid being ugly/slow/poor handling stuck with buyers which made entire Hybrid market into a small niche market.

Tesla is shattering the negative image that in order to be efficient, it has to be slow and ugly. (okay, Model X is kind of ugly).

Toyota isn’t doing any favor to the green community by keep making slow EVs.

If it had brought out the new E-Rav4 with 7.6s performance like it had before, I would have supported it more.

The Prius is supposed to be the flagship of efficiency. Toyota’s other hybrids tend to be much faster.

However, one consideration about the Prime is the battery size. Like with all PHEVs with smaller batteries, they are limited in power output. I would imagine the battery is sized just right for their drive motors. To make it faster it would need a larger battery and larger drive motors, thus increasing the cost. However, some might be willing to pay extra for that. I’m not sure how many, though.

I disagree that Toyota somehow did a dis-service by building a hybrid that has sold about 10 million copies. The numbers are proof enough that they built a car that hit the mass-market target in terms of price, efficiency and utility.

In case you haven’t noticed they also have offered a ton of other hybrids, for many years. On other models the hybrid version is generally higher performance than the base model ICE only version.

Hey, nobody thinks the Prime is the perfect vehicle, but don’t let the perfect be the enemy of the good.

There are more than a dozen plug-in hybrids on the market that have less range and less EV-only capability than the Prime. Why not waste electrons slagging Ford, BMW, Mercedes, Porsche for all the weak plug-ins they make instead of running down Toyota who is marketing a package that is actually in the sweet-spot of price/performance to sell a ton of vehicles while offering superior electric-only capability?

Sure the Volt is great, but it’s more expensive, it also has reliability issues lately, and it has much worse cargo space.

The i3-rex is also more expensive, smaller, has range issues with it’s tiny gas tank, and doesn’t even have 4 regular doors.

Millions of cars sell every year with ~12 sec 0-60 mpg times … it’s really not a priority for a lot of people, so don’t get hung up on it.

There’s just a lot of people piling on the Prime and Toyota in this thread, so I offered a counterpoint.

I wasn’t aware of john’s history, but it’s no excuse to go crazy slagging the Prime and Toyota. Just correct whatever error you might perceive he’s saying and carry on.

The Volt and the i3 are pretty much the only two plug-ins available that are arguably better than the Prime, with more electric-only range and better acceleration, but those aren’t the only things that matter, and the Prime beats them on some other important issues, i.e. price, reliability, cargo space, efficiency operating on either electric or gas.

Amen… Couldn’t have said it better. I am at a loss to see why so many people are poo-pooing this car. It’s a good price and is much better than most other PHEVs. If there were no Volt, I’d seriously consider the Prime.

I don’t like the i3, REx or no. It’s hideous, the interior is awful and those doors would put me off even if everything else was great.

I’m not a fan of the Prius Prime, it has unnecessary strange styling, no middle rear seat, it’s slow and I’ve never liked those strange shifter levers in Toyotas (Mirai has one too).

I like the Volt, I think it’s the right choice for a lot of people.

Now all that having been said am I somehow upset a bunch of people bought Prius Primes? Nope. Japanese aren’t going to buy Volts anyway because of their inherent biases and getting a Chevy serviced in Japan is probably a nightmare. So they probably bought the best car that was a possibility for them. Win.

I was waiting…waiting….and waiting for Toyota TMCC to release a better financing or leasing program but it never happened. I drive the 2014 Prius plug-in but because they didn’t have a good program, I am now leasing a Hyundai Sonata plug-in. The car drives nicely but not ready to say it’s better than Prius. I really enjoyed my 2014 plug-in. Too bad they deterred me from continuing to be a Prius owner!

You are just a Toyota enthusiast. While others (Tesla, Nissan, GM, Ford) were doing the heavy lifting, all you could do is troll. Now Toyota has a weak offering and you are claiming superiority in the plugin arena, any which way you can spin it.

Unfortunately the PP isn’t a good buy. We are still waiting for Toyota to make something that’s worth the money. And apparently Toyota felt they need “faster further” over the PiP, because they made it faster and go further. Sadly they still fell short. If this wasn’t a concern, why not just stay with the PiP’s 6 miles of EV range?

I saw my first Prime on the road the other day. I think they look cool. But then I’m one who likes the looks of the 4th gen Prius: it reminds me of origami, and I like how it doesn’t look like every other car on the road.

I realize a lot of people don’t like the design. I’ve talked to one 3rd gen Prius owner who was so turned off by the new design that she was struggling over whether she should upgrade.

My wife and I own a 2cnd gen Prius, have for about 4 years now. It’s been a fantastic car. Though it did take some getting used to the driving dynamics, I’ve found it fairly enjoyable to drive: it’s got the premium sound system which helps the experience. I’ve never had a problem lacking acceleration when I needed it. Biggest downside is the engine noise.

Last summer my wife and I added a Gen 1 Volt which I drive. I mostly love it, but I do miss some things about the Prius: layout and usability of infotainment/controls, cargo space and access, view outside the car, especially to the rear, exacerbated by the rear-view camera being low-quality, especially at night. And I get irritated by the Volt’s proximity alert system, which is constantly and uselessly beeping at me when I go to back out of a parking spot. Plus the charge port door gets stuck shut a lot of the time so I’ve got to fiddle with it to get it open. Pretty sure that wouldn’t happen on a Toyota. I do love the electric driving experience, and the handling, ride and acceleration are better than the Prius.

In my hometown the electricity comes from coal, so I’m not really doing any better for the environment by plugging in, but that will change before long when they upgrade the plant to natural gas.

“Plus the charge port door gets stuck shut a lot of the time so I’ve got to fiddle with it to get it open.”
———
This also bothered me on the Gen1 Volt, and apparently enough other people that GM finally went with the KISS philosophy on the 2014 and made it manual. It would be nice to be able to retrofit my 2013, esp in the winter when it sticks more.