dogcrazyjen wrote:Encouraging an owner who cannot control a dog who aggressively bites to do PP work seems to me a recipe for disaster.

I agree with this statement. The aggression is the first thing to address. Once obedience is solid and the 'issues' are under control the dog could be evauated for PP training.

I'm sure Mike and his mentor Nelson would never do PP training with a dog that was not completely under control and responsibly handled.

Absolutely!!!! My old trainer typically does not allow a dog to start PP work until it has a VERY high level of obedience. His one exception was Sacha...we worked on the PP and obedience together...but she was different...she was a lab...There wasn't a threat of her biting someone (I mean, honestly...heck, I'm lucky she bites the sleeve now).

My current trainer starts bitework with puppies, and does not start obedience until much later...she's been biting since she was 6 weeks old, but has only JUST started obedience (she's 9 months old) but I have socialized my puppy from day one (asking people to touch her, handle her, taking her places where there are lots of people).

I also know other dogs, though, who have bitten people...and ONLY after they have gotten that aggression out of the dog, and have the dog under complete control will they start bitework. They have found, though, that the dog will no longer do it....

Listen if you read my previous statements I said that first, you have to moidified the behavior of aggression, once the behavior is controlled then the handler would have to undergo a intensive training herself to learn what it is to handle pp dog. mpn13 you are right I would never put myself, my business, or my mentor nelson under that situtation. However, I say that 75-80% of the problem is almost and if not always the handlers fault, by puting the dog in that position. Ex: having a pp dog and going to the store living the dog in car with the window and you outside getting assalted, or somebody breaking into your house and the dog inside in the crate, you yourself are setting up the dog to fell the test. I don't know about you but, as for me if someone break into my house I want my dog to finish what it started, it may sound a little harsh, but at the same time my family comes first... If not, give the dog I will put her to work at a business, to provide me another income......

Mike A.

" knowledge is not power, applying it is. Which lead to wisdom, that is power."

For further info. contact M.J.A Kennels and Training Facitily at (407)932-4710 or e-mail: m.j.a@adelphia.net

Mike A. wrote:Ex: having a pp dog and going to the store living the dog in car with the window and you outside getting assalted

I take my dogs everywhere. If I go to the store, they are crated, in my car. Why? Because 1) I don't know about the laws in FL, but here in MD/DC, the LAW states a dog can't come in a store (unless the store specifically allows it OR unless the dog is a service dog); 2) Sometimes it's more convenient to take them with me (like if I'm on my way to training, and I have to stop at the market to get hot dogs). I don't allow them to roam my car b/c 1) my lab would probably eat my car; 2) I simply don't like all that hair everywhere.

So, I could leave the dog at home, but if you go to the second thing you say:

Mike A. wrote:or somebody breaking into your house and the dog inside in the crate, you yourself are setting up the dog to fell the test.

so, what if I leave my dog at home, so I don't set it up for failure in the car, and I leave it OUTSIDE of the crate when I leave it at home, but I get attacked right outside my home trying to go to my car. Well, all my doors are shut to my house....my dogs still can't get to me...

By your reasoning, it appears that I'm scr##ed if I take them with me AND if I don't....

So, if everything I'm doing is setting them up for failure, then why have a pp dog in the first place? Why not carry pepper spray/take a martial arts class/etc?

Mike, I know this isn't what you're saying...and I do understand what you're saying, but I think there are enough people on here that don't understand PP. If you could clarify your points so that people don't get the wrong idea.

If you understand what I am saying, then why are you making so much harder for others. .......

By you having your dog in the house and you are outside walking toward your car, out of no where somebody starts to hurt you, you set yourself up not the dog. Me personally I would have a Doggy Door. ........