If this is your first visit, be sure to
check out the FAQ by clicking the
link above. You may have to register
before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages,
select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.

Re: [Deck] Imperial Painter

Originally Posted by jandax

First, think about what each of those three cards are doing. Firebolt is an answer to most creatures seen in the format, which also gains card advantage via flashback. SMF answers a completely different problem, the opposite problem actually. It comes in against control decks as an alternative win condition. I wouldn't just find three cards to cut, and I also wouldn't just play a few different cards without having a great reason to change a deck/SB that is well tuned. In order to make it work properly you need to identify the problem you're having with the deck, and address it with changes to play style, increase your knowledge of troublesome matchups, and playing the deck regularly for practice. When you have those three steps down pat, and you know that there is a specific problem that needs addressing, then should you go about making changes. It's about having patience and diligence inside and out of the match. Imperial Painter is a deck full of must-deal-with cards, one of its biggest strengths. Don't forget your fundamentals!

Hello Jandax! I think I understand what you mean! If you want to put SFM and its equip have to remove other cards in sideboard that help vs. control deck, then firebolts are essential!

Then I make you a different question: Actually, there are places in this sideboard for SFM, Jitte and Batterskull? and if the answer is "yes" cards which would be sacrificed?

Re: [Deck] Imperial Painter

I think you missed my point.

I was trying to get you to take a step away and not consider what to cut, but why?

If your meta is full of control, I still wouldn't skimp on the Firebolts. You see, I go by Seth and Jack's list, for the last two tournaments it's been Jack's 75 and I have never wanted to run SFM. Koth is good game, and there are other cards that help in the matchup. My mentioning fundamentals was meant to say that one shouldn't forget that this is a Painter/Grindstone combo deck and should only play cards that work to that strength. If your meta is interactive and combat based, SFM isn't what you want to be doing anyways. If you're determined to play a SFM package, then go for it. There's been some talk on the thread about it, maybe someone else who's played it more can chime in.

Re: [Deck] Imperial Painter

Hello Jandax! I think I understand what you mean! If you want to put SFM and its equip have to remove other cards in sideboard that help vs. control deck, then firebolts are essential!

Then I make you a different question: Actually, there are places in this sideboard for SFM, Jitte and Batterskull? and if the answer is "yes" cards which would be sacrificed?

P.S. The list to which I refer is the last top8 at SCG

Everything is on the front page. Seth's current list (pretty sure) runs both firebolts and stoneforge package.

Basically Jandax was trying to phrase this in a nice way:

You are trying to invent the wheel when Seth and I have finely tuned Lambos. He has been painting for 6+ years so I value his opinion over anyone else's. If you are deadset on a shortcake list, pick the one that fits your style more and don't change anything.

If you want mono-red then go ahead and ask some others who are running it for their latest lists and discussion. I'm not the person for that.

Re: [Deck] Imperial Painter

Kap gives me too much credit these days as I rarely have played meaningful legacy anymore instead playing more block decks and Vintage. But he is right about the deck. Most of what is going on with it has been fairly static for the past 2-3 years. Most lists are pretty much 56 cards and then you have about 4 cards to wiggle with. For me that is an EE, Etutor, Peacekeeper, and unknown at this time. You could also swap out one of the city of traitors for another land of your choosing. But other than that I would find it hard to modify the deck, unless you are in an extremely small and inbred meta. I have always held that I like diversifying answers, which is my choice of Peacekeeper over the 2nd Bridge(although they are slightly different each with its own pros and cons) along with the EE and extra tutor to make removal and finding what I want a little easier. Jack and lots others have gone with a more situational answers with Revokers and the like, and its hard to argue with their results these days. I've been slow to switch as I know my list better and I don't get to play meaningful legacy much(yes I usually sling a deck with Juzzam, sink hole, and fucking alpha Demonic Hoards and Royal Assassins. And no it doesnt win much). But the core of the deck is really well tested at this time and I can't think of really any reasons to change it.

On to the board, its a complicated thing. Most of my 75 hasn't changed in 2 plus years. Its the same list, with maybe one change from that event in Bmore and my ok finish at SCG open. That is because the cards that i wanted to fight may have changed but what they represent hasnt. Take Firebolt for example. When I dug that card out it was over two years ago. Jund was raging. Go ahead look and see what was a deck to beat then. The card was strong then as it is now because it allowed you to out grind those grindy decks and just barely get some card advantage to get that extra turn, make that extra land drop, that extra mill for your Welder to be live. It worked bc it killed Bob, and Stoneforge, and Clique, and Delver, and Bloodbraid, and then Deathrite. It bought you turns which is all that matters when you are playing combo and the card still functions to this day, even as the craetures have changed and Death and Taxes hardly resembles its original incarnation. Its the strategy behind the card and what we wanted it to do that makes it work. In each of the cases above it slows down the rate at which you die and then if you are lucky it lets you repeat the process. The instant vs socerey really didn't matter as we were just buying a small amount of time with the card, and trying to eak out every bit or card advantage Red has to offer(which isnt much). the only time I miss Lightning Bolt anymore is when Jace lands, but we have blasts so I can live with that.

In terms of the Stoneforge Package That should be viewed as a totally different entity, one in which I am not entirely sure needs to exist anymore to be honest. SoLS was used in some of Hollywood's earliest lists(Find these they are awesome and used something like 2 Jaya and 3 Figure of Destiny) and I tried it during the same Jund era. I was looking for a way to protect painter, along with allowing me the time to win. It did this by gaining life and getting back dudes as they did not use STP. The alternate win con was a nice alternative and I would ultimately try various numbers and equipment pending meta shifts. Sometimes you win with turning dorks sideways and the equipment and card advantage Stoneforge into SoLS or Batterskull was awesome. Now it still comes in against those decks where I might need to get a little more time and cards for. For Miracles it is nice, it is stong against xGB decks, and I would bring it in against burn decks but rarely does it alter the outcome.

The importance of this is that they serve different roles in the deck. I think playing Painter without 4 Firebolts is the absolute wrong decision anymore, and nobody in the past 2 plus years has been able to show me a reason why I am wrong there. the other cards of the board is a little tougher. That is where you just need to play the deck, read the thread, and then play some more. I guarantee every card(unless from the new block about to drop) has been talked about and tested. Nobody is going to be reinventing the wheel with this deck(especially if Wizards keeps butt fucking red). All the cards have been discussed and it is up to you to mix and match to suit your taste. Some people will choose Maniac Vandal over Viashino heretic(I can understand that), or a Koth or other Planeswalker, or various artifacts that give the middle finger to playing spells or to RIP vs varius other forms of gravehate. That is a personal choice and one in which I am hard pressed to say one is right and one is wrong.

I will end with this, just play the fucking deck, enjoy it. Its a fucking blast, takes forever to get good as you have no cantrips to lean on and the lines of play are far deeper to read. That and pray Spinal Villian is sometime playable again.

Seth

…no matter how much you think you love somebody, you’ll step back when the pool of their blood edges up too close.

Re: [Deck] Imperial Painter

Originally Posted by Ish

Any matchup that you bring in RIP. Just an extra win con.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I play mono red painter deck with RW manabase for sidedeck answers. I play three rips.
they are mad against rug delver shuts down tarmogoyf and nimble mongoose and my after sideboard 8 red blasts can handle the delvers.

Re: [Deck] Imperial Painter

Originally Posted by vhirvela

I play mono red painter deck with RW manabase for sidedeck answers. I play three rips.
they are mad against rug delver shuts down tarmogoyf and nimble mongoose and my after sideboard 8 red blasts can handle the delvers.

Thorn of Amethyst really saved the day against Burn, Oops and Ant. Jund Loam was won with T1 Blood Moon on both games followed with a quick Revoker to Mox Diamonds. All the other games were slow grindfests with lots of things happening. We agreed to split the prizes with the RUG player before the finals and I went home 500€ wealthier, nice day all in all.

Re: [Deck] Imperial Painter

If that new UR list takes off, I think I will look at siding two Rolling Earthquake in the place of other burn effects. Cheap board wipe is handy against that deck.

It is better to ask and look stupid then keep your mouth shut and remain so.

Originally Posted by Spam

Do not make fun of lands masters, they've spent many years mastering the punishing fire technique in the secret loam monastery. Do not mistake them with the miracles masters, eternal rivals, they won't like it.

Originally Posted by DarthVicious

I hope your afterlife is filled with eternal torment.

Originally Posted by Dice_Box

Fuck. Which one of my quotes do I drop for this?

Originally Posted by DarthVicious

Something about how fun it is pulling the wings off flies and microwaving the neighbors cat?

Re: [Deck] Imperial Painter

I think this deck is getting better and better if 2-4 treasure cruises become the norm in blue decks. That means more dead spells to interact with us in the first turns, dead spells that can also just be countered by a blast after they committed their entire graveyard to it. And treasure cruise also means that blue decks in general will be played more than ever .... better for us ! (although U/R delver is a very scary matchup and i hope that deck doesn't become the favorite choice of everyone, which i highly doubt because it feels too much like a burn deck and people don't want to play burn ).

I think i will be upping the blast count between main and side from 6 to 7.... or even 8, who knows.

Rolling earthquake is obviously good against u/r delver ... probably better than sudden demise because it kills both pyromancer/swiftspear and delver.

Re: [Deck] Imperial Painter

If you want a sweeper effect, why would you play rolling earthquake over something like martyr of ashes. She is tutor able, less mana intensive and thus harder to counter with soft counters (ie daze, spell pierce). I personally like pyrokinesis due to its "free" cost and instant speed, but it doesn't sweep everything.

Re: [Deck] Imperial Painter

Because Martyr does not hit Delver.

It is better to ask and look stupid then keep your mouth shut and remain so.

Originally Posted by Spam

Do not make fun of lands masters, they've spent many years mastering the punishing fire technique in the secret loam monastery. Do not mistake them with the miracles masters, eternal rivals, they won't like it.

Originally Posted by DarthVicious

I hope your afterlife is filled with eternal torment.

Originally Posted by Dice_Box

Fuck. Which one of my quotes do I drop for this?

Originally Posted by DarthVicious

Something about how fun it is pulling the wings off flies and microwaving the neighbors cat?

I'm concerned with the burn matchup as strange as it sounds almost to the point of considering a 4x Leyline of Sanctity (all the burn players I know have no out for this besides the creature route) but it's a dead card if I don't get it initially. I'd probably run 4 Thorn of Amethysts if I had a full set so I decided to add in Trinispheres to make up for it. I'm excited to finally get to use my Koths again, I used to use it when I played Werewolf Stompy a year ago.

Re: [Deck] Imperial Painter

You should play to your best outs and not really worry about burn. Unless the burn players are really good they won't be in Top8 contention which is a place the blood moon/ensnaring bridge deck can clean up. Don't try and metagame with mono red painter. Just play tight and for god's sake borrow a 4th blood moon. There will be times where all you play against is burn and pox, that's magic. However it seems painter is well positioned in your area so focus on its strengths and know your match ups!

I'm concerned with the burn matchup as strange as it sounds almost to the point of considering a 4x Leyline of Sanctity (all the burn players I know have no out for this besides the creature route) but it's a dead card if I don't get it initially. I'd probably run 4 Thorn of Amethysts if I had a full set so I decided to add in Trinispheres to make up for it. I'm excited to finally get to use my Koths again, I used to use it when I played Werewolf Stompy a year ago.

I play the shortcake version so I probably shouldn't comment, but I really think you want goblin welders, the 4th blood moon and a third top. You need to have ways to find your combo pieces. I would also personally play the bridges main, but that's just me. If you are able/willing to switch to shortcake and want to ramp up your burn matchup, just add one CoP red. Mono red you could consider a couple copies of the pro red swords or maybe life gain with dragons claw or trading post or something? I don't know. Or as Jandax mentioned, just hope you don't play it.