While the improvements may be nice, they lost a lot of good will by treating first release as a sort of paid beta. This will be another MMO World of Warcraft will be dining on, digesting, and pooing down Square's throat. Dead and buried within 2 years.

Don't forget that if you purchase the original game, you'll get this one free with perks and another free trial. Even if you felt cheated before, you can still give it another go at no additional risk to you when it comes to Open Beta and Launch. No one tell you whether you'll actually like the changes or not, but actually playing for yourself will allow you to judge. They intend to give you ample time to play without paying a dime, so there shouldn't be any real concern on your part Gone Gonzo.

I'm still having a hard time choosing betwen ESO and this. I'm waiting for more beta footage and such, but I played FFXI for a few years and loved it, and am at the point where I've got free time and the need for nostalgia. So it's a very, very tough choice. I've been following both MMOs closely to see who will get my money. My head says ESO may be better gameplay, but my heart misses the times I had in FFXI. So... please, please, please be good.

Edit: Benchmark score: 15492. I win. My sister is getting 2891 on her laptop, which will still run the game nicely, apparently. I love my beast.

Rare misstep? RARE? All the bravest, ff13 just all of it (yes i am aware some people liked it but when half your fanbase starts rejecting yes I qualify it as a misstep) the lazy ports, no its not rare anymore just par the course unfortunately.

I really would have thought after all this they would have come back relaunching it without the subscription and sticking to a paid shop like most games now. Unless this game just absolutely blows people away that could be a killing blow right there. 'Decent' just doesn't cut it anymore when it comes to subscription fees, wait too long between updates, don't have enough to do at high level right away, hell anything the community deems a problem and people don't feel they're getting their money's worth and take off. Go with a paid shop and they can keep dropping back in to spend a bit of cash for months and years to come.

Honestly, I may give this a try, but after the debacle of the original release, I'm definitely waiting for public opinion before I dive into my wallet. They do get brownie points for razing that disaster to the ground and building from square(heh) one.

NameIsRobertPaulson:While the improvements may be nice, they lost a lot of good will by treating first release as a sort of paid beta. This will be another MMO World of Warcraft will be dining on, digesting, and pooing down Square's throat. Dead and buried within 2 years.

Wouldn't be too sure about that. Final Fantasy XI is still going strong after 11 years, and is apparently profitable enough on its subscription pay model that Squeenix is still making expansion packs for it(new one coming out this year). If FFXIV can capture that audience(no guarantee of that, naturally) then it should do just fine.

I am sure this game is going to do really well, as long as they intend to give free versions out to everyone who bought the first version and don't plan on taking on monthly subscriptions for a game that is basically the reincarnated version of an MMO-Hindenburg.

MMOs rely on the initial hype to get going, due to their social nature. If you start a new MMO and there aren't enough people around, people will become bored really fast. SE will have to work really hard to get people back on board for this.

From what I've heard from people who've played ARR (who are not fanboys), it's a solid WoW clone with a FF feel and a few next-gen features (like the FATE system, aka dynamic events, and supposedly the ability to attack things that other players are fighting and still get credit--both of which are things that I just can't do without anymore after playing GW2). I don't care, and I imagine most FF MMO fans don't either, whether or not it's super innovative. All I want is ~immersion~ and, ideally, the sense of community and accomplishment that FFXI had, though I've recently become more or less convinced that you can't have either of those things in a game that's actually fun.

GW2 gives me 80% of what I want in an MMO (mostly fun), and the rest (the aforementioned immersion, community, and accomplishment) could either come from FFXIV or else is gone from the MMO genre forever. I know there's a market for that type of game, even if it's too small for most publishers to care about it at this point, and most of the people who want it either have played FFXI or are still playing it. Not many games cater to them anymore.

Unfortunately SE are still stuck in the old mindset that sub fee = guaranteed quality. Which doesn't bode well. Unless they're just pretending to believe that, and have actually made the choice because they believe that model will get them more money.

Also, I just want to see those male Miqo'te and female Roegadyn and Highlanders that I spent so long on the forums campaigning for, dammit.

Hm... Console version? Cross-platform accounts? Dynamic event systems? Completely re-tooled game world? This sounds interes...Monthly subscription fee.Oh. Nope, never mind. I'm out. After WoW, I refuse to pay a monthly subscription fee ever again. The amount of money you end up spending just accumulates too quickly. Plus - and I am sorry, Square - this game crashed and burned the first time, so I have no intentions of paying a monthly fee for anything until I know for a fact it won't do that again. Props go to you for not trying to hide it, but it's enough to turn me away, at least for now.

FF11 was "Flowchart-the-job" masquerading as a game. Unless they've taken emphasis away from the soul-crushing grind (extremely unlikely), nothing else matters.There is literally no way you could make it appealing to me.

And what I saw of the initial FF14 suggests Squeenix just wants another subscription money-stream that requires little to no investment in matters of actual gameplay.

Siege_TF:Did they fix the names along with everything else? Altana as my witness I'm not calling the damned catgirls anything other than 'Mithra'.

So what are the cathouse, mithro? To be fair, while the races are pretty much the same appearance wise, it's a new setting and the two different paths have some appearance differences.... So I'm not that concerned about the names and how well the game does post launch

Why does it seem like all the great companies of my youth (capcom, konami, squeenix, nintendo from time to time) start screwing the pooch so hard that it requires medical attention? Then again, back in the days they were only squaresoft and enix and both were awesome on their own but somehow awesome + awesome != 2awesome in this scenario :C

digital warrior:Rare misstep? RARE? All the bravest, ff13 just all of it (yes i am aware some people liked it but when half your fanbase starts rejecting yes I qualify it as a misstep) the lazy ports, no its not rare anymore just par the course unfortunately.

Half the fanbase? I'd like to know where you happened to pull that "fact" from. It was probably your arse. Considering reviews for FFXIII were *actually rather positive* and there just happened to be a *very* vocal minority who shat bricks for some reason. Majority of people completely ignored the horridness of the internet and give a hearty (but silent) "Fuck off." ;)

Ehhhm...... it looks kind of "generic" mmorpg doesn't it?.....I'm still kind of interested, thye should try to add some events like DC universe example: a special event fight agains kefka? or the four elemental fiends?, but paid subscription? really? I'll rather continue playing Tera...... let's see what happens.

Regardless of whether I stick with it or not, at least they're offering a new trial month. I want this game to do well, but that's not saying much as I'm not one to wish ill on any developer who's actually made some effort, and after the balls-up of 1.0 they have certainly been trying.

The sub is a turn-off, but, I'm willing to give it that chance. And the moment I'm not having fun, or realise I don't have the time, or whatever, I'll drop the renewal. But it's getting that second chance at least.

Some people just don't get it. We don't need story on MMOs, people just want to do shit together while getting xp and gold in order to do more shit together. Who's really gonna read text when you're hurrying to out level and out gear the other clans?

FF should remain single player only, they should've fixed their core FF franchise before doing anything else. All their FF games been shit for the past few years.

Siege_TF:Did they fix the names along with everything else? Altana as my witness I'm not calling the damned catgirls anything other than 'Mithra'.

So what are the cathouse, mithro? To be fair, while the races are pretty much the same appearance wise, it's a new setting and the two different paths have some appearance differences.... So I'm not that concerned about the names and how well the game does post launch

Last I checked, Final Fantasy XI still exists. In fact, it gets an expansion next month, Seekers of Adoulin! Want your Mithra? Play FFXI, no one is stopping you. Final Fantasy XIV =/= Final Fantasy XI. It is NOT a sequel. They don't have to keep any of the same names at all. Hell, "Altana" is not an FFXIV thing, it's an FFXI thing.

ExtraDebit:Some people just don't get it. We don't need story on MMOs, people just want to do shit together while getting xp and gold in order to do more shit together. Who's really gonna read text when you're hurrying to out level and out gear the other clans?

FF should remain single player only, they should've fixed their core FF franchise before doing anything else. All their FF games been shit for the past few years.

Completely disagree.

One of the aspects FFXI does best is it's story. It's not bad, even better than some of their "core titles" like 13. And it's actually integrated into gameplay, it's not just background lore you're expected to wiki. You can play the game like a number cruncher if you like, but being immersed with good characters and events does not have to be cut from the equation.

FF11 was "Flowchart-the-job" masquerading as a game. Unless they've taken emphasis away from the soul-crushing grind (extremely unlikely), nothing else matters.There is literally no way you could make it appealing to me.

And what I saw of the initial FF14 suggests Squeenix just wants another subscription money-stream that requires little to no investment in matters of actual gameplay.

Sounds like you need to do your research. Hiromichi Tanaka was the reason why FFXIV 1.0 failed. He didn't learn anything from his asinine additions to FFXI (the old FFXI team moved on to make FFXIV). Somewhat interesting concept, ruined by poor execution.They thankfully showed him the door, Naoki Yoshida is SO much better at the job, so much so that he's doing both Producer AND Director when it used to be two people. The FFXI team is also almost entirely new and have drastically altered the game to make it much less of a chore. Tanaka was the problem.

FF11 was "Flowchart-the-job" masquerading as a game. Unless they've taken emphasis away from the soul-crushing grind (extremely unlikely), nothing else matters.There is literally no way you could make it appealing to me.

And what I saw of the initial FF14 suggests Squeenix just wants another subscription money-stream that requires little to no investment in matters of actual gameplay.

Sounds like you need to do your research. Hiromichi Tanaka was the reason why FFXIV 1.0 failed. He didn't learn anything from his asinine additions to FFXI (the old FFXI team moved on to make FFXIV). Somewhat interesting concept, ruined by poor execution.They thankfully showed him the door, Naoki Yoshida is SO much better at the job, so much so that he's doing both Producer AND Director when it used to be two people. The FFXI team is also almost entirely new and have drastically altered the game to make it much less of a chore. Tanaka was the problem.

The fans love to say this, but there really is no evidence for it.

First of all, Tanaka was the producer. Producers have very little creative input on their games; that job belongs to the director. Another job of the producer is to take the fall when things go poorly, so that's what Tanaka did: became the scapegoat. And the fans lapped it up. This is one of the biggest reasons I left the FFXIV community, despite wanting to stick around and give input on how the game could be made better. People saying they hoped Tanaka died in the tsunami were too much for me. It was disgusting. (Also, he was a part of FFXI from the very beginning. There is no way to say which of the ideas were his and which belonged to other people. And FFXI was a grindy chore because it was more or less an EverQuest clone, and that's how all MMOs were then. WoW is what changed it.)

Not saying that he was entirely blameless, but there are other, much more obvious reasons why it failed. Namely, FFXI launching half-finished and doing fine for its first year and everyone at SE assuming XIV would fare the same, director Komoto being inexperienced with directing full games despite being good at directing expansions, piles of evidence that they wanted to capitalize on things that were the craze in Japan at the time (Monster Hunter) and weren't particularly interested in actually learning what their western fans wanted (they seemed to think that western players didn't like getting physical objects with their collectors' editions, apparently oblivious to things like the Halo helmet), CEO Wada continuing to have his head up his ass at all times and wanting to please the stockholders by releasing the game as soon as possible, and so on.

Is it just me, or is the idea of a dragon as the main bad guy getting a little too cliche? Hell, even seeing grotesque monstrous beings feels a little old. I know there's a lot you can do to make a monster a monster, but why not try another approach? Why not make a monster that is beautiful to look upon. And I'm not talking about making it some sexy chick that has a few horns/hooves here or there, or has red skin, or some crap like that, I mean a genuinely beautiful monster that is pleasing to look upon for more than just sexual value. Something that truly inspires awe, and doesn't just make you want to kill it by its looks alone. I'd love to see a monster like that, not just another generic dragon. Anyway, the game looks...eh? I don't know, I love MMOs, but I can't help but feel I won't find anything truly ground breaking here, and unless its more immersive than falling into a whirlpool leading to the bottom of the Mariana Trench, I can't seem myself really getting into it. Only WoW has ever truly pulled me in, even when other games offer better gameplay mechanics and other features, they all seem to pale in comparison when it came to immersion. While WoW hasn't been able to pull me in like that for a while, no other MMO seems capable of scratching that ever growing itch. But I digress. Hopefully it will be something cool, who knows.

Siege_TF:Did they fix the names along with everything else? Altana as my witness I'm not calling the damned catgirls anything other than 'Mithra'.

So what are the cathouse, mithro? To be fair, while the races are pretty much the same appearance wise, it's a new setting and the two different paths have some appearance differences.... So I'm not that concerned about the names and how well the game does post launch

Last I checked, Final Fantasy XI still exists. In fact, it gets an expansion next month, Seekers of Adoulin! Want your Mithra? Play FFXI, no one is stopping you. Final Fantasy XIV =/= Final Fantasy XI. It is NOT a sequel. They don't have to keep any of the same names at all. Hell, "Altana" is not an FFXIV thing, it's an FFXI thing.

..... You do realize that was kinda my point. I was stating that while they may appear the same, it's an different setting/game.... I think your attempt to provoke a mob ended up with you forcing a zone dash before it uses it's gobbie bomb special attack.

Ehhh, I just don't want to pay a subscription fee when there are so many great free to play games out there. I'm sure this game will find it's audience, but I doubt they'll be able to get everyone back. Too many people still feel burned about 1.0 and everyone I still talk to from my FFXI days have gone back to Vana'diel and haven't been won over by any of the news about ARR so far.

klaynexas3:Is it just me, or is the idea of a dragon as the main bad guy getting a little too cliche? Hell, even seeing grotesque monstrous beings feels a little old. I know there's a lot you can do to make a monster a monster, but why not try another approach? Why not make a monster that is beautiful to look upon. And I'm not talking about making it some sexy chick that has a few horns/hooves here or there, or has red skin, or some crap like that, I mean a genuinely beautiful monster that is pleasing to look upon for more than just sexual value. Something that truly inspires awe, and doesn't just make you want to kill it by its looks alone. I'd love to see a monster like that, not just another generic dragon. Anyway, the game looks...eh? I don't know, I love MMOs, but I can't help but feel I won't find anything truly ground breaking here, and unless its more immersive than falling into a whirlpool leading to the bottom of the Mariana Trench, I can't seem myself really getting into it. Only WoW has ever truly pulled me in, even when other games offer better gameplay mechanics and other features, they all seem to pale in comparison when it came to immersion. While WoW hasn't been able to pull me in like that for a while, no other MMO seems capable of scratching that ever growing itch. But I digress. Hopefully it will be something cool, who knows.

I doubt a dragon will be the main bad guy here, knowing SE and FF MMOs like I do. They're probably going to continue with the evil magitek empire theme. Dragons are just scary but semi-generic things to be tackled by endgame groups in FF MMOs, while the Big Bad is usually something with more of a religious and/or technological theme.

I agree with you that I'd love to see more beautiful monsters. It happens sometimes, but not often enough. The unicorns in FFXI were very disappointing. (I did find some of the endgame monsters to be truly awe-inspiring, though.) But then I hate myself for killing them.

FFXI was the peak of immersion for me. I know it has a lot to do with it being my first MMO, but it also has something to do with the slow build of scenery as you progress, from realistic at the beginning, to increasingly full of fantastic elements, to completely bizarre and otherworldly at the end. Also, as I've been discovering, being able to relax and turn your brain off as you settle into a routine skill cycle is an important component of immersion. As fun as fast-paced, action-filled combat is, it's not relaxing.

Though I have been becoming increasingly suspicious of "immersion" and beginning to view it as something like a drug, but that's another topic.

Sounds like you need to do your research. Hiromichi Tanaka was the reason why FFXIV 1.0 failed. He didn't learn anything from his asinine additions to FFXI (the old FFXI team moved on to make FFXIV). Somewhat interesting concept, ruined by poor execution.They thankfully showed him the door, Naoki Yoshida is SO much better at the job, so much so that he's doing both Producer AND Director when it used to be two people. The FFXI team is also almost entirely new and have drastically altered the game to make it much less of a chore. Tanaka was the problem.

That's all well and good, only I'm more convinced by results, than people.When Squeenix produces an MMO that isn't an embarrassing grind-driven mess, I'll give them credit.

Unless that reset button also had a magic F2P feature built in, I still won't be interested. I will gladly pay for the base game. I will also be willing to pay a monthly subscription for a free game. And I really do like the Final Fantasy setting when it comes to magic and monsters. I'll run a blue mage... or a black mage if there isn't any blue.

But no, judging from the gameplay videos, this ranks right up there with Eden Eternal. I won't be paying monthly to play that.

EmperorSubcutaneous:From what I've heard from people who've played ARR (who are not fanboys), it's a solid WoW clone with a FF feel and a few next-gen features (like the FATE system, aka dynamic events, and supposedly the ability to attack things that other players are fighting and still get credit--both of which are things that I just can't do without anymore after playing GW2). I don't care, and I imagine most FF MMO fans don't either, whether or not it's super innovative. All I want is ~immersion~ and, ideally, the sense of community and accomplishment that FFXI had, though I've recently become more or less convinced that you can't have either of those things in a game that's actually fun.

I think that's sort of how I feel about MMOs in general -- I'm not about innovation necessarily, I just want to play a solid game in an immersive world. I ended up leaving SWTOR because of that -- the story line was fine, but I never felt *immersed* in the SW universe. It was so strange, walking around in all these gorgeous places and never feeling like I was in the Star Wars universe. I think this game's success will ultimately lay in how they can pluck the strings of nostalgia for their huge fanbase through the game's quest and social systems. They were quite adamant about GM events and supporting the community's social efforts, which I took as a very good sign.

EmperorSubcutaneous:Also, I just want to see those male Miqo'te and female Roegadyn and Highlanders that I spent so long on the forums campaigning for, dammit.