“We don’t have time for this”: Cop allegedly kills North Carolina teen who was already tased and restrained

posted at 3:21 pm on January 7, 2014 by Allahpundit

Via Ace and Bearing Arms, I missed this yesterday but it deserves some belated attention. The victim, Keith Vidal, was schizophrenic, weighed 90 pounds, had already been tased, and reportedly was being held down by two officers when the shooting happened. He was armed with a “tiny screwdriver,” according to his family.

His dad claims that one cop said “we don’t have time for this” right before the kid was shot dead on the floor.

According to the report, the first unit on scene was a Boiling Spring Lakes officer who arrived at 12:34 p.m. He was joined shortly after by two additional BSL officers and a Brunswick County Sheriff’s Deputy.

The first unit on scene reported a confrontation in the hallway, but told Brunswick County Dispatchers several times that everything was OK.

Unit 104 from Southport arrived on the scene at 12:48:41, fourteen minutes after the first officer had already been on scene.

Seventy seconds later, Unit 104 radioed out that he had to fire shots at the subject in order to defend himself.

The event report mirrors what family members told the media…

Wilsey said officers had his son down on the ground after the teen was tased a few times and an officer said, “we don’t have time for this.” That’s when Wilsey says the officer shot in between the officers holding the teen down, killing his son.

A detective’s been placed on paid leave while the investigation plays out. Obvious question: Even if the cop was such a monster that he’d murder a mentally ill kid simply because he was a drag on his day, how did he think he’d get away with it with both parents right there watching? Is a suspension and murder investigation less of an inconvenience than wrestling a small teenaged boy into a squad car? If he was counting on a mom and dad to be intimidated into silence over the cold-blooded murder of their son, he was counting on an awful lot. I notice too that the dad doesn’t explicitly say it was the cop who fired the gun who said “we don’t have time for this.” One of the officers there said it. Was killing Vidal what he had in mind or were the comment and shooting unconnected?

The official story, I assume, will be that Vidal was going for a gun in the holster of one of the cops who was restraining him. Exit question: If the parents’ version is true, it can’t be the first time this has happened, right? No one would attempt a murder this cavalierly unless he was very confident, based on prior experience, that he could get away with it.

Blowback

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Comments

At this point in most cases involving police shootings, we have already learned every negative feature of the encounter related to the dead person. Violent, not following commands, history of violence, a conservative known to attend gun shows, violent, etc…., with all of this information coming from the police and/or the District Attorney.

So far, the “state” hasn’t uttered a sound about the actions of the police or the young man (in fact, we’ve heard more info about the demeanor of the mother and father since the shooting than we’ve heard about the cops involved….funny, that eh?).

This lack of info tells me one thing. They don’t have an excuse to justify the shooting, and one (or both) of the non-shooting cops are rolling over on the shooter.

Used to always fall on the side of assuming the cops were doing the right thing. Now I always fall on the side of assuming the cops overstepped –- because they can and, increasingly, they do. Anyone ever watch that reality show “Boston’s Finest”? I watch it and see a bunch of poorly educated bully fascists all pumped up with their power who can’t wait to shoot their fellow citizens.

They probably dialed 911. Which we are trained to do. Short test: Whats the phone number for the “Schizophrenic Adult Child Having An Episode Center” in your town…quickly now….hurry up…..your childs life depends on it….don’t make us send the police…..we’ll shoot him for ya

BobMbx on January 7, 2014 at 4:40 PM

Q: Did these parents just suddenly find out their kid was schizophrenic?

A: No. They knew he had mental problems.

Q: Did calling the police before stop this 18 year old mans outbursts of aggression?

A: No. How many times should these parents have called police before they come to the realization that this person is not safe enough to be out amongst society?

The parents should have stopped calling 911, and get their son committed. He’d be alive today.

Police work is not particularly deadly. The cop unions love to make it out like everyday is a scene from Predator 2.

CTD on January 7, 2014 at 4:51 PM

I made NO remark claiming that police work was deadlier than any other line of work. I simply make the point that there is no reason for an officer of the law to die because some crazy person wants to kill him for being an officer of the law.

Though I must say, when you go to work every day at your insurance office, the majority of your clients are NOT out to get you.

When you go to work as an officer of the law, most of your clients ARE out to get you.

Today cops get military weapons, military clothing, military vehicles. What they don’t have is Military discipline.
Every day our police slip a little bit closer to being nothing more than third world Paramilitary thugs.

If you as a police officer (at the time there were three officers on scene) cannot physically handle a 90lb boy who has already been tasered twice without shooting him, then you are in the wrong line of work.

Renee on January 7, 2014 at 4:52 PM

This does not hold water when dealing with a schizophrenic who fears for his life. That schizophrenic can quickly overpower those who are bigger and stronger.

Ever hear the stories of wimpy little people who pick up cars off someone they love? That can really happen. Adrenalin can do scary things. Clearly you do not understand the physiology at play here.

Today cops get military weapons, military clothing, military vehicles. What they don’t have is Military discipline.
Every day our police slip a little bit closer to being nothing more than third world Paramilitary thugs.

Q: Did these parents just suddenly find out their kid was schizophrenic?

A: No. They knew he had mental problems.

Whats your point? Are you blaming the parents for the cop killing their son? That pretty outrageous.

Q: Did calling the police before stop this 18 year old mans outbursts of aggression?

A: No. How many times should these parents have called police before they come to the realization that this person is not safe enough to be out amongst society?

Link please. You’ll need to show where anyone has stated Vidal had been violent (or aggressive) at anytime in his past. Otherwise you just made that up. Oh, and let us know how many times the police were called prior to that day. You seem to have a great deal of info no one else has.

The parents should have stopped calling 911, and get their son committed. He’d be alive today.

portlandon on January 7, 2014 at 4:56 PM

You just answered my first question. You are blaming the parents for Corporal Itchy Finger’s solution.

Not true. If he killed with premeditation, then it is first degree murder. If he killed in cold blood, then it is 2d degree at worst.
GWB on January 7, 2014 at 4:51 PM

I suspect it won’t be hard to introduce premeditation, especially if the facts as we know them are correct. Someone apparently thought the SOP when it’s late and you’re getting near the end of your shift is to hold down a suspect and execute him on the spot. i.e. the mindset was in place beforehand. Or, the officer could plead temporary insanity or whatever non compos mentis option may be available.

At any rate, the shooter’s life as he knew it is pretty much over no matter what legal procedures come from this. At the very least, he’ll be signing whatever checks come his way over to the victim’s family, probably for the rest of his life.

This does not hold water when dealing with a schizophrenic who fears for his life. That schizophrenic can quickly overpower those who are bigger and stronger.

Ever hear the stories of wimpy little people who pick up cars off someone they love? That can really happen. Adrenalin can do scary things. Clearly you do not understand the physiology at play here.

bigbeachbird on January 7, 2014 at 5:02 PM

If there was any suggestion of an out-of-control, superman type of psychotic episode in the house on that day, it would be the only thing we would be hearing on the news, and the Sheriff and DA would be holding press conferences by the shipload to get that headline out there. Since no one has said it, I’ll take the position that its not the case at all.

The parents should have stopped calling 911, and get their son committed. He’d be alive today.

portlandon on January 7, 2014 at 4:56 PM

They probably tried. The mental health system does not have room for these people and the family probably heard repeatedly “we have no beds”. Families are forced to deal with this stuff because no mental health agency will step in until AFTER a tragedy happens.

Same with my brother the law officer, who died in one of these situations. The parents had been trying to have the schizo committed (the one who killed my brother) for quite some time. The mental health laws did not allow for people to be committed against their will. The mentally ill have their rights, you know. The healthy can just go suck eggs until a sicko shoots them or stabs them or slashes their throat or goes on a mass-shooting rampage…

At any rate, the shooter’s life as he knew it is pretty much over no matter what legal procedures come from this. At the very least, he’ll be signing whatever checks come his way over to the victim’s family, probably for the rest of his life.

whatcat on January 7, 2014 at 5:04 PM

Thats a fantasy. 40-50 years ago? Maybe. Today? Not a chance. This guy will get a medal for “bravery” for saving the lives of two other officers.

I don’t necessarily agree with that. If a cop is worried about making it home, then he needs to find work doing something else. I work with amounts of radiation that would probably frighten most of you, but below the legal limit. I know the dangers, and I chose this line of work. If I don’t like these conditions then I need to find a different career.

This lack of info tells me one thing. They don’t have an excuse to justify the shooting, and one (or both) of the non-shooting cops are rolling over on the shooter.
“No comment”
BobMbx on January 7, 2014 at 4:53 PM

That’s what I was thinking, if there were no valid reason for this to happen the officers that restrained the kid as he was shot could be looking at accessory charges. Since they didn’t shoot – and especially if they had no idea it was coming – they don’t want to take the fall for the one who did the killing. So they go state’s evidence.

You just answered my first question. You are blaming the parents for Corporal Itchy Finger’s solution.

Way to go, Port.

BobMbx on January 7, 2014 at 5:03 PM

I’m not blaming the parents. I am blaming their decision to keep calling police, even though it did nothing to stop their son from behaving aggressive toward them & police.

In regards to the first response to these type of shootings, it’s like we learned nothing from the Trayvon Martin shooting. By all accounts from the first news stories, Trayvon was eating an ice cream cone in one hand, a balloon on a string in another and somebody walked up and shot him.

There is more to this story. And I have also jumped to conclusions by throwing out different scenarios as to what could have happened. That being said, the whole scenario is terrible to all involved.

It is more complicated than “I called the police, they killed my son” as the media headlines are pumping out there.

No one would attempt a murder this cavalierly unless he was very confident, based on prior experience, that he could get away with it.

He may or may not have killed before, but it seems unlikely that he would have behaved this way (if the facts as reported by the father are true) unless he felt fairly confident that the other two officers would cover for him.

At any rate, the shooter’s life as he knew it is pretty much over no matter what legal procedures come from this. At the very least, he’ll be signing whatever checks come his way over to the victim’s family, probably for the rest of his life.

In reality, the shooter will like receive 3 or 4 week paid vacation and a 2 hour class in dealing will the mentally ill before returning to regular duty.

If you can’t physically restrain any 90lb person on the planet you have no business being a police officer. PERIOD. I do not care if it is 9th dan Tae Kwan Do master on PCP, there’s no excuse for this.

And this sh** happens all the time now because the physical ability standards have been lowered to achieve ‘diversity’. I hope the parents end up owning every public building and property in town after the lawsuit.

This lack of info tells me one thing. They don’t have an excuse to justify the shooting, and one (or both) of the non-shooting cops are rolling over on the shooter.
“No comment”
BobMbx on January 7, 2014 at 4:53 PM

That’s my hope as well. Makes it easier to “go against the brotherhood” when you have someone else standing next to you agreeing that what happened was wrong. ESPECIALLY cause it sounds like the 3rd cop even put their life in danger by shooting at someone then were on top of.

When you go to work as an officer of the law, most of your clients ARE out to get you.

bigbeachbird on January 7, 2014 at 5:00 PM

Not really true. Most of the people with whom you’ll interact negatively might be out to get you, but most of your “clients” are law-abiding Joes who don’t give you any hassle whatsoever (OK, maybe a little if you pull them over to give them a ticket – but that puts them back in that other category, now, doesn’t it?).

The parents lost my sympathy with “they’ve had to call the police numerous times to deal with their out of control son.” Well damn in YOU as parents can’t even handle your kid don’t stand there rolling your eyes at the police.

The parents lost my sympathy with “they’ve had to call the police numerous times to deal with their out of control son.” Well damn in YOU as parents can’t even handle your kid don’t stand there rolling your eyes at the police.

Marcus on January 7, 2014 at 5:24 PM

I wouldn’t be too hard on the parents. Remember if you are trying to get an adult declared incompetent then you need evidence of their instability, and you mostly get that by calling the cops. We don’t know if that’s what they were doing, but it might have been if they were trying to get him help.

The parents lost my sympathy with “they’ve had to call the police numerous times to deal with their out of control son.” Well damn in YOU as parents can’t even handle your kid don’t stand there rolling your eyes at the police.

Not really true. Most of the people with whom you’ll interact negatively might be out to get you, but most of your “clients” are law-abiding Joes who don’t give you any hassle whatsoever (OK, maybe a little if you pull them over to give them a ticket – but that puts them back in that other category, now, doesn’t it?).

GWB on January 7, 2014 at 5:22 PM

Let me put this another way…

When you go on a domestic disturbance call, rules of civility are not likely to apply.

The domestic disturbance is one of the more dangerous calls an officer can go on because of the unpredictability and strong emotion inherent in those situations. It can explode out of control in a heartbeat.

A domestic disturbance is a FAR cry from a traffic stop. And all the sweet-talking, bleeding-heart psycho-babble in the world is useless against a schizophrenic in fear for his life.

Sooo…let’s stay focused on THIS situation, and not try to stereotype ALL officers nor ALL good American citizens.

If this disabled child were black, would your opinion be different? Say the truth.

Key West Reader on January 7, 2014 at 5:36 PM

I don’t care what color a person is.

A schizo is a schizo. It has been reported that the young man was schizophrenic. The parents knew it.

That is enough for me.

Maybe on a call such as this one the responders should be people trained in shooting sedative darts. Knock ‘em out like they do wild animals. Because that is what you are dealing with in an unmedicated schizophrenic who is out of control.

Sooo…let’s stay focused on THIS situation, and not try to stereotype ALL officers nor ALL good American citizens.

bigbeachbird on January 7, 2014 at 5:32 PM

I’m with that. And I say that as someone who finds it easy to dislike cops…or have somewhat in the past.
Who knows at this time what happened here, aside from a tragedy.
No doubt there are some bad cops and no doubt there’s often some institutionalized brutality that comes out of that world. But there’s also – more often and more likely – immense humanity and heroics.
Not to mention the whole going to work every day with your life on the line.

Maybe on a call such as this one the responders should be people trained in shooting sedative darts. Knock ‘em out like they do wild animals. Because that is what you are dealing with in an unmedicated schizophrenic who is out of control.

bigbeachbird on January 7, 2014 at 5:41 PM

The 5’3″ 90 pound child had been tased multiple times. Do think that being tased/pseduo electrocuted several times counts as a “sedative”?

I live in NC. This is not an uncommon thing to happen. The deaths alone in the county jail where I live in would shock anyone who checks. But it is not reported well and NOT investigated since they were just criminals. Having worked in law enforcement software management I know the rules of law but have yet to find any in NC who follow them. We have had a large number of prosecutors, police chiefs, HP, SBI lab personnel plus a load of others put in jail. This does not affect the corruption and hiring of person who should never be a LEO but are hired by their friends, relatives or paybacks. The role of LEOs in NC is to generate revenue. Our AG stated a doubling of crimes solved and convictions – To a whopping 3-5% rate! WOW great! Now crime is only 97 – 95% unaccountable. That will help a lot. And as for the guy doing the shooting – his attitude is the normal not a abnormality. There have been at least 3 recent shooting deaths of teens by cops in the last month in NC that I can remember.

That’s when Wilsey says the officer shot in between the officers holding the teen down, killing his son.

I find this hard to believe. For me either the father is mistaken, this was terribly reckless and put the other officers at terrible risk of being shot or the cop reached in and put his gun directly on the boy. That’s going to take some explaining.

The parents should have stopped calling 911, and get their son committed. He’d be alive today.

portlandon on January 7, 2014 at 4:56 PM

As others have noted, that no longer works.

But it should. In this case, and every other involving the mentally ill and weapons in any situation, we should be pointing out that the solution is to be allowed to separate the truly mentally from the rest of society and place them in some sort of protective environment.

The 5’3″ 90 pound child had been tased multiple times. Do think that being tased/pseduo electrocuted several times counts as a “sedative”?

Key West Reader on January 7, 2014 at 5:46 PM

The tazing did not apparently sedate.

All these arguments are fruitless. Only the family and officers were there. Judging this situation without all the facts is a waste of time.

I know my family’s experience, and so I know there is the possibility that the shooting was justified.

I also know that the law enforcement system is going in a very bad direction as departments all around the country are increasingly militarized, an abhorrent development in what used to be a great Constitutional republic.

I have every sympathy for this family which has endured the grievous pain of losing a son, and apparently, also endured the recent loss of their daughter in an automobile accident.

And this has WHAT to do with the story of a young male killed by a law officer in the South?

bigbeachbird on January 7, 2014 at 5:46 PM

Cops who shouldn’t be cops. We’re supposed to have faith in them. Every day we learn that faith is misplaced. Thats what is driving the anger you see from me and maybe others here and elsewhere on the intertubes.

Tell me that the next time you dial 911 (and I hope you never have to) that this or some other story isn’t going to influence the way you behave, speak, or move when the cops show up. You life depends on your obedience and “on your knees” show of respect when in their presence. Anything but that can get you killed.

I find this hard to believe. For me either the father is mistaken, this was terribly reckless and put the other officers at terrible risk of being shot or the cop reached in and put his gun directly on the boy. That’s going to take some explaining.

CW20 on January 7, 2014 at 5:50 PM

He decided this boys fate in less than 15 seconds. A real friggin’ hero, eh? God forbid if you sneeze while this guy writes you a speeding ticket. He might get the wrong idea.

“Suspect made a quick, violent move. Fearing for my life and the safety of the public, I drew my weapon and discharged it”

It seems that within 2 days, the department’s internal ‘investigation’ fully cleared it’s officers.
I just saw something on the shooting of Michelle O’Connell in St. Augustine a few years back.
Problem with these things is you have police investigating their own.

.
Amen to that sentiment. My condolences that your brother lost his life in the line of duty.

Schizophrenics are vastly misunderstood by the average person who has not been involved with them on a personal level. There is little in your daily experience that coincides with how they see and interact with the world.

The medications that are prescribed for schizophrenia are some of the most potent currently in use – and they HAVE to be.

Tasers are perceived as “instantaneous incapacitators” but they have a high rate of failure in actual use.

If required to “gain control” of a schizophrenic, I would start by using pressure or strike points intended to incapacitate.

If required to “gain control” of a schizophrenic armed with a “tiny screwdriver”, I would START with blows intended to disable/dislocate major joints.

Someone with a dislocated knee is not going to be very mobile or much of a threat.

I missed all this. You say the child had a history of uncontrollable violence? And that shooting him was the only course open to the police? Okay.

flicker on January 7, 2014 at 6:04 PM

There are a couple of commenters here that have stated if you can’t control your kids and call for help, you shouldn’t complain when they take care of business.

One poster has said that its outside of the police charter to lend assistance. I took from that, that if I call the police I should expect some gunfire and it’ll be my fault for not being able to control the situation myself.

In one of the first interviews I read, the dad (stepdad?) said that the 2 officers who arrived first tried to talk to the son and calm him down, and had almost succeeded when the third office arrived, said “we don’t have time for this” and ordered the other officers to tase the kid. After the kid had been tased a couple of times, and the two officers had him pinned to the ground, the dad heard a shot, and saw that the third officer had shot the son. The dad said he grabbed the third officer before he could shoot again.

The timeline was a little different than the later reports, in that the cop said we don’t have time for this before the kid was tased, not before he was shot, and it’s not clear, at least from the earlier articles, that the dad actually saw the cop shoot the kid. He said he “heard” a shot. Either way its horrible, but I don’t think all the facts are out yet, and the reports seem to be changing to make it more sensational. I find it hard to believe the shooting was justified, when the kid was pinned down by 2 cops and had just been tased, you would think he’s not a threat. But, I’d like to hear the full story.

Also, the parents had called the cops a couple of times previously to help take their son to a mental health facility when he was having an episode, and there had not been a problem. He was not violent, at least not previously, he was just not cooperative. It’s not clear that he was threatening anyone with the screwdriver, which was a small one used on electronics. Although after he was tased, he might have reacted violently, who knows.

I am going to say this as pc as possible.
I have, over the last 3-5 years, become very wary and somewhat afraid of our local police force. This story doesn’t surprise me in the least.
I remember a time when I thought, and taught that the police were the good guys. I’m not so sure any more and definitely do my best to avoid them………even though I have absolutely nothing to hide.
Times are changing, and really fast.

I feel bad for the family, but if this 90 lb 18 year old was too much for mom and dad to handle, then they were obviously afraid for their own safety if they called the police.

portlandon on January 7, 2014 at 3:31 PM

Unfortunately, our liberal friends have made it very difficult for families to have 90 pound schizophrenic family members committed. So instead these people live in fear, waiting for the next outburst, hoping it doesn’t escalate and get out of hand; knowing that if they have to call the police, there’s a very good chance it’ll end poorly.

One poster has said that its outside of the police charter to lend assistance. I took from that, that if I call the police I should expect some gunfire and it’ll be my fault for not being able to control the situation myself.

The worst part of all this is that we’re even debating whether a cop really could have shot a largely subdued kid as a matter of efficiency. The very fact that we give this story any credence at all is a sign of how far we have fallen as a civilization.

City cops barged into the home of a Staten Island mom without a warrant, beat up her family and callously killed her pet parakeet, according to court papers.

Evelyn Lugo’s beloved bird Tito was ejected from his cage after it was knocked off a dresser when cops came into the St. George home, the lawsuit alleges…

Lugo’s son Edwin Avellanet was taking a bag of garbage outside when cops stopped and questioned him about an orange construction cone placed in front of their Corson Ave. home to save a parking spot, according to lawyer Jason Leventhal.

The cops demanded to see identification and Avellanet, 26, refused, stating that he had done nothing wrong. A cop grabbed Avellanet by the arm, but he was able to break free and retreat into the house, according to the suit.

I am going to say this as pc as possible.
I have, over the last 3-5 years, become very wary and somewhat afraid of our local police force. This story doesn’t surprise me in the least.
I remember a time when I thought, and taught that the police were the good guys. I’m not so sure any more and definitely do my best to avoid them………even though I have absolutely nothing to hide.
Times are changing, and really fast.

ORconservative on January 7, 2014 at 6:25 PM

Though I have several law enforcement officers in my family, I am afraid I have to say the same.

I do not trust them, and do my best to avoid them. My family excepted.

Here the cops act more as vigilantes. They take cell phones and delete them, they stop you just to ask “how you doin’?”, they sieze $40,000 in drug money and only $30,000 makes it to the stationhouse, they engage in kidnapping, sexual slavery, extortion and rape and are told by the brass “don’t do it again”, until four years later the newspaper uncovers the trafficking and only four of the many implicated but otherwise anonymous cops, the visible tip of the iceberg, is prosecuted.

The police chief chased down an alleged traffic offender, in an unmark vehicle, with out identifying himself, and when he caught him, beat him up.