I read that book 20+ years ago, and just did not like it (or the Lazarus Effect).

I guess even a great writer can drop a literary bomb once in a while too...

I did enjoy The White Plague though, and would suggest you read that if you have not already....

Really? Can I ask what you didn't like? Was it the plot, characterization/characters themselves, or the philosophy that turned you off?

TJI was one of my favorite FH books, almost on par with Dune itself. I think the addition of Ransom really added some poetic feeling to the prose that FH is often missing, he tends to be a bit dryer in his descriptions and imagery in his other novels.

I agree a little with both Freak and Thing. I enjoyed The Jesus Incident very much, but was disappointed with Ship as a fairly minor character - although it made his every appearance catch my attention. I haven't read The Ascension Factor yet but The Lazarus Effect, while good, didn't feel like it had the same kind of deep reflections that are found in Franks other books (that I have read).

Ah English, the language where pretty much any word can have any meaning! - A Thing of Eternity

SandRider wrote:finally, this "20+ years ago" comment - assuming you read these things in your teenage years,this puts you well over thirty, maybe even forty. If so, you're really, really dense & retardedfor a man of that age. Or you really are a young 20-something jackoff, & full of shit.

I think it was because after the ending of D:V, I expected a lot more about Ship. It was a good book but just not at all what I expected.

I read it first, so I was slightly less dissapointed than I would have been by this, though I was still dissapointed by it especially in the later 2 books).

However, I think FH made the right decision with Ship. The more mystery the better, much like Sauron in LoTR, the more offscreen the character is, the more menacing and impressive they grow in your imagination. Nothing FH could have written about Ship would have even come close to the feeling of awe and amazement I got from wondering.

A Thing of Eternity wrote:However, I think FH made the right decision with Ship. The more mystery the better, much like Sauron in LoTR, the more offscreen the character is, the more menacing and impressive they grow in your imagination. Nothing FH could have written about Ship would have even come close to the feeling of awe and amazement I got from wondering.

That is why FH is The Master and BH/KJA and schmucks.

Paul of Dune was so bad it gave me a seizure that dislocated both of my shoulders and prolapsed my anus.~Pink Snowman

I read that book 20+ years ago, and just did not like it (or the Lazarus Effect).

I guess even a great writer can drop a literary bomb once in a while too...

I did enjoy The White Plague though, and would suggest you read that if you have not already....

I have that, one day to my surprise my gf came home with it. I've not read it but she loved it, made her actually read Dune (even though she says for her the story ended with the first book ). I'll probably start that this week

SandRider wrote:"she says for her the story ended with the first book"

sounds like a real smart girl.

hang on to that one ....

I get the "story ends with the first one" up to a point.

To me there are several layers of DUNE canon.

FIRST: Dune. book one, a full story unto itself

SECOND: The Trilogy. as FH originally concieved of the materiel, and it doesn't violate FIRST

THIRD: Thru GEoD. To me this is last one written in the same Voice as the Trilogy, and it doesn't violate FIRST

FOURTH: All DUNE by FH. the final, final say so, and it doesn't violate FIRST

FIFTH: DE. cos FH authorised it and it is obviously a well researched labor of love, and it doesn't violate FIRST

SIXTH: Fanon, if it doesn't violate FIRST thru FOURTH

SCHFIFTY-FIFTH: Anyone who agrees that BH/KJA are not canon cos they violate FIRST and, they don't know what they're talking about.

I don't think the author should make the reader do that much work - Kevin J. AndersonWe think we've updated 'Dune' for a modern readership without dumbing it down.- Brian HerbertThere’s an unwritten compact between you and the reader. If someone enters a bookstore and sets down hard earned money(energy) for your book, you owe that person some entertainment and as much more as you can give. - Frank Herbert

The Jesus IncidentI enjoyed the book very much. I beleive FH was working on themes of pure good & evil then got inspired to continue the Ship book with his musings. The Lazarus Effect is my favorite of the void books, The Ascention Factor, the least.

I'm still a little weak on why the mutations were nessesary, except perhaps for the one line of dia, "Like me, thats how we define human."

Avata should've been a little more aggressive, I think...

Thoughts?

Leto II is gone for good, except for OM. The "pearl" was just that; a miniscule portion of what Leto was, and not a compressed version of the whole. The pearl that the worms have do not make them Leto, or in any way similar to him.-Omphalos

D Pope wrote:The Jesus IncidentI enjoyed the book very much. I beleive FH was working on themes of pure good & evil then got inspired to continue the Ship book with his musings. The Lazarus Effect is my favorite of the void books, The Ascention Factor, the least.

I'm still a little weak on why the mutations were nessesary, except perhaps for the one line of dia, "Like me, thats how we define human."

Avata should've been a little more aggressive, I think...

Thoughts?

I just finished a re-read of The Jesus Incident. This time round it occurs to me that Avata is the analogue of Jesus i.e. dying for us in some way. The Avata had to die for humans realise what they had and have now lost. Hence the title. But I could be wrong. (Or I could be right and should have realised this ages ago .)

Ah English, the language where pretty much any word can have any meaning! - A Thing of Eternity