Don't get me wrong, I love clothes (I am a woman). I just don't feel clothing should be viewed as a form of self expression, but as a tool. Every moment of every day is an opportunity for "lesser magic".

There are so many people that allow fashion to be a master for them. Refuse to think beyond what their personal style is, and are bound to it.

Clothing as an expression of the self is a created meme to make people buy more shit. If you think about it, you're hardly expressing much "self" because all you are showing is that what others considered worth of being worn. That what you have constantly on display is "them".

Of course it has become that incorporated that unless you fabricate all your clothing yourself, there is no escape from it.

I just don't feel clothing should be viewed as a form of self expression, but as a tool.

There is, I think, little difference. If it is being used as part of a magical working, then clothing is a method of self-expression towards that lesser magical goal. Likewise if clothing is being used as a method of artistic self-expression, it is a magical tool to that end. With the exception of making dressing for others a higher priority than dressing for oneself, the Self and its expression cannot be taken out of the equation.

Agreed that self-image can be constraining. Re-invention and change are both necessary at times.

Did you read D's post after mine? He got what I meant. Clothing is no more a matter of "self expression" than your favorite song. If you didn't make it yourself, it's not really your self expression reflected in that choice.

Fashion is just another form of control, a way to get us to buy more. Society is more than happy to allow an individual to rebel through clothing choices. It's harmless.

Speaking of fashion, PoB, your "fashion" choice of writing entirely in bold is annoying and pretentious. If what you're writing is good, it should be able to stand on its own two feet without you drawing attention to it.

Being a social creature (as long as it's on my terms mostly) I do tend to dress to impress because it makes me feel good about myself as well.

On the other hand I wouldn't wear anything that I didn't feel comfortable in simply to impress others.

Generally speaking I prefer to wear things that I consider to be my personal style. Sometimes my choices make me look out of place, such as when I wear a cut off jean jacket to a social event, or my Schott motorcycle jacket. I do find that when I am comfortable wearing something, other people who might not have the same taste that I do, still are very accepting of me. This must be because my ever so charming personality just seems to shine through Although awhile back some wise ass made a comment about 1982 wanting its jacket back; which I actually thought was amusing and we ended up having a good chuckle over it. I know it was meant as a bit of an insult and he was showing off his wit in front of his friends, but I found the situation entertaining and fun also, so why get all bent out of shape?

Of course I wouldn't show up wearing those things to a black tie event, but even in that case I would want to wear something just a little bit different then anyone else. This is not because I'm an attention whore (Ok perhaps I am just a little bit) but because my personal fashion sense happens to be somewhat different from that of most people.

I'm human and enjoy positive reinforcement, but not to the point of going out of my way to impress.

I've also started wearing a substantial sized CoS Baphomet pendent quite regularly, which I haven't done in the past. Again there is a bit of the attention whore in that, but the main reason being is that I think that it looks cool, although I'm mature enough not to feel that I HAVE to display when it might be inappropriate or for pure shock value, or where it might cause unnecessary drama in my life, such as work or in front of my mommy. I got to the point in life where although I don't always want to wear who I am on my sleeve, I also don't want to have to hide it either.

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"The first order of government is the protection of its citizens right to be left alone."

For me it is not a question of "rebellion". I don't operate on that stimulus-response level.

The extent to which clothing is an authentic form of self-expression depends upon the individual response to it.

If an individual is buying into a system that tells them that self-expression is intrinsically tied into a product and that by partaking of that product they are expressing their individuality, then; yes, that is control and that process accounts for the vast majority of fashion and advertising as it relates to people who cannot/will not think for themselves.

However, if an individual has removed themselves from that system of control, takes from it as they wish and uses that material in inventive and creative ways which reflect something that they have personally conceived (rather than what they've been externally presented with) then that is irrefutably an act of self-expression.

All the more respect to those who want to make their own clothes but an artist does not need to personally make his/her own paints and canvas to be an artist.

Speaking of fashion, PoB, your "fashion" choice of writing entirely in bold is annoying and pretentious. If what you're writing is good, it should be able to stand on its own two feet without you drawing attention to it.

It is not in bold. It is in a font (Book Antiqua) provided by the forum.

However, if an individual has removed themselves from that system of control, takes from it as they wish and uses that material in inventive and creative ways which reflect something that they have personally conceived (rather than what they've been externally presented with) then that is irrefutably an act of self-expression.

All the more respect to those who want to make their own clothes but an artist does not need to personally make his/her own paints and canvas to be an artist.

Shit, I wish that I've said that.Eh, in any case, it's pretty much what I wanted to say.

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"The first order of government is the protection of its citizens right to be left alone."

That's right FS. When they started to push us into consumerism they changed our "buy on need" habit into a "buy on desire". Just like they consciously pushed females into smoking (doubled their consumers), they started to change our attitude towards clothing which led to what we are used to now; fashion and clothing as an expression of identity.

Fashion is a constant renewal of that which is considered desirable and through which people express themselves as being "in" or "out".

What's even quite ironic is that at one point people started paying more money in order to become a walking billboard for the very product labels they spent their cash at.

That's right FS. When they started to push us into consumerism they changed our "buy on need" habit into a "buy on desire". Just like they consciously pushed females into smoking (doubled their consumers), they started to change our attitude towards clothing which lead to what we are used to now; fashion and clothing as an expression of identity.

Yes, but what if something that a person truly likes and enjoys to wear also happens to be fashionable? There were times in my life when what I liked to wear was looked at as out of style or strange (like flared jeans for example) and then later became fashionable (again). Should I have stopped wearing it simply because others might think that I am TRYING to follow a trend?

I mean if I understand you correctly about wearing things out of must mere necessity, does that mean that you go to the Salvation army for your clothes and by the least expensive ones that will cover you up and or just keep you warm?

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"The first order of government is the protection of its citizens right to be left alone."

All I point out is that a lot of what we consider our own choices are not so much our own.

You're absolutely right about that, and have often wondered about possibly being brain washed to some extent into liking what I like. Most likely the answer is yes, and one of the more telling signs of that is the fact that I like to wear jewelry. There is absolutely no reason for it other then for some kind of attention seeking behavior, but I don't think that there is anything wrong with that as long as I know my reasons for doing it.

I believe that often times those people who claim to be doing something ONLY for their pleasure are not being completely honest with themselves.

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"The first order of government is the protection of its citizens right to be left alone."

But we are "brain washed" into liking what we like. Take the example of cars. I remember very well cars looked like shoe boxes, all edgy and such. Then the more curved cars came out and at first you wonder what the fuck they were thinking but add some more and some time and next you look at a shoe box and consider that a piece of crap.

It's with everything; the more it is advertised and used in our environment, the more normal we find it to buy it too.

*using quick reply, my virus protection progra has decided the page to reply to a specific post is "malicious"*

POB, how exactly have you resisted that system of control? Painters and paints is a nice analogy, but is just another way to defend the fashion is self expression meme.

This is a "thing" for me. I researched every place I used to buy clothing at and was horrified. Sweat shops making shit for pennies and selling it for hundreds of dollars. The exportation of factories overseas is really hurting blue collar workers in the US.

I dropped out of purchasing blood clothing. I either buy used clothing, or warehouse discount deals online. I just got in 300 bra and panty sets for $300. Forty fit me, I'll sell the rest. One example,just one.