New Visual Novel Publisher MoeNovel Say They Won’t Give Up On The West

There’s a new visual novel publisher on the block, and you may have heard of them. They call themselves MoeNovel, and their first English release is a game titled If My Heart Had Wings, which is one of the few HD visual novels to be translated and released in the west.

MoeNovel even went to the extent of having the game rated by both the ESRB in America and the PEGI in Europe, making a concentrated effort to go through the same channels that regular games do, in order to encourage the image of a more “mainstream” visual novel.

Now that the publisher has released their first game, the question that remains is: will we see more? It’s all too easy to underestimate just how hard it can be to find success in the western visual novel market, and so, we caught up with MoeNovel producer Fujisan to ask what the publisher’s future plans are.

One of the questions I asked Fujisan was about the difficulties of breaking into the western market, and how that affects the company’s future. Is If My Heart Had Wings a one-time deal, or are MoeNovel in this for the long haul?

As it turns out, MoeNovel seem well aware of the difficulties associated with the west.

“In working on this project, of course I discussed this with many industry people, but I was repeatedly told, over and over, that ‘The Western market is difficult’,” Fujisan replied to my question. “Thinking of it business-wise, I’m sure it’s not uncommon to not see any results for a long time, and we have to move projects along somewhat blindly, so I’m sure it won’t be easy.”

“I fully understand that this isn’t going to be an easy ride. But our number one motivation is in wanting people all over the world to know about the Japanese-born game genre known as visual novels. Business is important, too, but that motivation is stronger. Rather than quitting because we hear that the Western market is a difficult, we’re going to give it a try. We at MoeNovel really take this to heart.”

So, why the focus on HD games in particular? Because MoeNovel feel that the west is being deprived of visual novels with high-resolution visuals, and in an age where even smartphones have high-res screens, they feel this is an oversight.

“The reason we’re sticking to high resolution graphic visual novels is because of the changing user environment,” Fujisan explains. “Nowadays even smart phones have high-resolutions, and PC monitor resolutions continue to get better as well. Amidst such circumstances, we thought that customers might feel unfortunate about being stuck with titles in the 800 x 600 size resolution, so we decided to stick to high-resolution visual novels.”

“That’s not to say there aren’t interesting visual novel titles in the 800 x 600 resolution,” he went on to clarify. “MoeNovel runs on the idea that it wants to spread to visual novel genre to people that might not know about it, so it’s not as though we’re only going to release high-resolution visual novels like If My Heart Had Wings. If there are any titles that we really feel we want people from around the world to play, there’s always the possibility that we might release such titles even if they aren’t high-resolution.”

We’ll have more from MoeNovel about their views on the western visual novel market in the near future.

A lot of the erotic scenes in VNs that rely on story over fetishism are just there for the sake of being there and add nothing to the experience (aside from the obvious). Usually those scenes are even written by a different person and can generally feel out of place in the story.

When they get a port to a console or handheld, all the adult material is taken out, anyway.

biskmater

it is usually done better, and with additional content to replace what was previously cut, though.

QueuedDisappointment

All true.

But in this case, for one of the routes it actually changed the story in order to cut the h scenes out.

They also went a bent overboard, and tried to get rid of pretty much any dirty joke/sign of affection (even editing the kissing scenes).

Himiko

I’d like them to remain anyway as a fan of only Eroge.

wyrdwad

It is still part of the original experience, though. It’s material that Japanese fans were able to experience from day one, but western fans are being deprived of altogether due to an outmoded moralistic code derived from our puritanical roots. Maybe you feel the erotic scenes are out of place and unnecessary, but that’s only an opinion — for others, they may provide a certain emotional balance that gives the game a more personal feel.

Ultimately, even if those scenes are somehow objectively awkward and damaging to the game’s story in some way, we’re still not even being given the choice to view them. And that, I believe, is an enormous mistake on the part of the publisher. Releasing the edited version is fine… but I believe the unedited original should also be offered as a digital download for anyone who’s interested.

M’iau M’iaut

Business decisions are about as vanilla and neutral as things get. They are made based upon what someone thinks will get them the most in return. Folks can be wrong, but let’s not universally determine why those decisions were made based upon our own codes and roots.

wyrdwad

Ultimately, though, that is why the decision was made. I mean, yeah, I don’t think MoeNovel’s goal was to shield children’s eyes from the horrors of nature or anything — I think they censored the game in order to reach a wider audience and increase their bottom line.

…But why would they assume censoring the game would cause it to reach a wider audience? Why would they assume they’d make more money censoring it than not? Because if they released an adult version of the game, that version would be heavily restricted as to its available sales venues, and might stir up controversy.

And the reason its sales would be restricted and controversy would be stirred? Because of our outmoded American morals that make all depictions of sex completely taboo.

We have laws and policies in place to keep things like this from being sold, and ultimately, the reason those laws and policies exist is because we’re a country that was founded on puritan ideals. And we’re just going to continue supporting those puritan ideals, whether we like it or not, unless someone has the cojones to come along and challenge them.

Which MoeNovel had a chance to do. But they chose to focus on their bottom line instead. An understandable decision… but, at least in my opinion, not the right one.

M’iau M’iaut

Customers usually aren’t making their buying habits based only on perceived social norms, sometimes they just want to have fun or find comfort. Or maybe possibly perhaps it is just not everyone finds their entertainment in watching hand drawn sex acts, but might enjoy a story of a small group of friends reaching for their dreams.

Please stop making the determination that your morals are somehow better than anyone else’s who might buy the game. Just because you find personal affront and anger at ‘outmoded’ ideas does not mean every other human being in the world does.

wyrdwad

I never said anything of the sort. Every comment I’ve made has been personal opinion only — lots of “I believes” and “I sincerely hopes.” I speak my mind on the matter only because it is indeed a very important one to me, on a personal and political level. And to the best of my knowledge, I’m not breaking any rules by discussing this, right? I mean, I understand you’re trying to keep things under control here, but this is clearly a serious issue for a lot of us, and is directly related to the article. It seems to bother you that so many of us consider this a deal-breaker, but… well, that’s simply how it is! And I can’t see any reason why we shouldn’t be able to talk about it. As long as we’re respectful of other people and simply argue our own points of view, there should be no problems.

M’iau M’iaut

I am talking with you, but yes would say there is a difference between sharing an opinion of hope and declaring that somehow we haven’t been getting enough h-games because of outmoded American morals.

Peach Princess and MangaGamer have had the cojones to bring over some incredibly hard content. I give you anything from Liquid and Zyx. There ain’t much moral or ideal going on in those games. If you know Pulltop, you know they have been very interested in coming to the West and finding consumers here to buy their releases. They dabbled with Peach Princess and are now trying this route. It is what they want to do as a company – their own choices.

Look at this attempt, the announcements of KnS2 plus the prequel at AX, and the expectations of one more huge shoe dropping at the con this weekend. Pretty damn good time to be a VN fan.

wyrdwad

“They dabbled with Peach Princess and are now trying this route. It is what they want to do as a company – their own choices.”

And that’s pretty much the bottom line of what I’m trying to say here. It is indeed their own choice, but I believe it to be the wrong one for the industry as a whole.

Not saying you have to agree with me there! But I still firmly believe, with all my heart and soul, that they’re making a mistake here, and that it COULD (though isn’t likely to) have unfortunate consequences somewhere down the line.

If nothing else, it speaks poorly of Pulltop in my mind, and will make me more wary of them as a company from here on out.

M’iau M’iaut

I leave the have to agree with me to my twitterverse friends. Here it is just being the casual (or not so casual) reminder of how things are being said.

I can recognize where your concerns are. My hope is to open the doors to VNs enough that folks learn something like a KaraNoShojo or Ever 17 exist, and recognize whatever roads it took to find those games in the past are not ones folks were willing to take. Sometimes one has to deal with the annoyances and bumps of a road under construction to get a smoother ride in the future.

Yause

By focusing only on the sex and on the United States, we’re missing a huge piece of the puzzle.

Putting explicit scenes aside, let’s just say that the edits wouldn’t have been so drastic had the characters been college students and appeared to be over the age of 18. Additionally, they’d probably have been more willing to release an adult version, at least as an option.

Ultimately, I think it boils down to Pulltop needing to expand (the 18+ game market is in a death spiral, and they’ve been in financial trouble for some time now). Yet, they haven’t adjusted their product lines to include content that’s more suited toward export. You can also see how rigid they are in their reluctance to explore outside PC development.

https://twitter.com/Ni_Go_Zero_Ichi Project 2501

I have a dream, that one day little boys and little girls all around this nation of ours will be able to get online and purchase Japanese porno games legally!! That we shall be freed from the tyranny of puritanism, the only thing keeping anime porn games from spurting their greatness into every household, every desktop, every man, woman and child!! Share in my dream, wyrdwad! Share in my dream and cry out for justice!

Zak Ledward

play Da Capo 1 and 2, then come talk to me

Yggdr5

In all honesty, I hope they fail. It’s as simple as this. Whatever they are bringing over has little in common with the Japanese original. Those aren’t Visual Novels anymore, those are Americanized, cut, logic and jokes deprived, 50% of CGs removed American ESRB-friendly… somethings. I’m unable to comprehend or understand how anybody who knows this could buy or enjoy this in any way possible.

Crazy_O

Upvoted, but only because what you say it’s true and shows the fault in their thinking. We like Visual Novels because of there uniqueness. Remove things from it, change it to make it more like western games and you butchered what we like about them.

We just want faithful translations, don’t touch anything else.

Radiosity

Reminds me of the original horrendous Americanised localisations of the Persona 1 and 2 games. I shudder whenever I think of what they did to those.

Tenetan

There is many who have not, Jast USA will announce 7 new VN’s this weekend alone for the west.

324234

I can only hope it fails to sell, making it an example of why not to censor a VN in localization. Don’t let it set the precedent that they should continue.

Neckbear

A precedent that might open up the market to more and better quality translations and a bigger fanbase? Sure, screw these guys!

324234

If it involves butchering the games in the process, I’d rather they not.

M’iau M’iaut

Point has been made and your opinion made known. Move on.

alixraen

Quality translations won’t matter as much if they’re going to continually water down their product for western audiences in order to grab as broad an audience as possible.

ChiffonCake

Yyyyyyyeah no. I’m as upset about the censorship as the next person, but I think that that’s a price that must be paid if we are to have an increased awareness of visual novels here in the west. After all, the great majority of VNs still have h-scenes, and I think we all know that being rated AO by the ESRB is pretty much commercial suicide. And you might say that they didn’t have to go through the ESRB, but considering that they want to target people who /don’t/ already know what a visual novel is, they pretty much had to.

Please don’t think that I’m defending what they did here, because I’m not! There obviously are things that they could’ve done better. However, I’m also not going to act like what they did was pure evil, because their actions are understandable, and their goals noble.

324234

Accessibility is fine, but it is not an excuse for not offering an uncensored version for those who’d want it.

ChiffonCake

I agree, though I can also somewhat understand why they wouldn’t do that either. Just having that option at all could cause other potential customers who notice it to go “oh, so it’s one of THOSE japanese games.” Hell, even VNs that don’t have h-scenes get that reaction – see the comments in the Greenlight page for Higurashi.

This is one major obstacle to be surpassed in bringing VNs over, I feel.

StromIV

A problem with that is they offer it for sale on the MangaGamer and Jlist website. So, it is sort of illogical to think they won’t have their title associated with ‘those Japanese games’, when the title is for sale right next to them.

324234

Alienating the existing VN market in an attempt to go mainstream doesn’t seem like a ‘noble’ cause, it’s a sell-out. As has been said previously, if they want to get rid of the negative connotation VNs have as porn games, localize good non-porn games. Don’t butcher one to masquerade it as something that it isn’t, that goes against the very purpose.

MrSirFeatherFang

Well it seems VNs have a good fanbase. I mean I know fans are going out their way to retranslate texts and add in h-scenes (or even kiss scenes). But it’s not all lost and you can’t do anything about it (like content removed in Yakuza 3 & 4?) and you can still contact the publisher via the links in my post above…
I think they just need to hear our voices.

brian

Undoing the stigma around this genre seems like an alright trade-off to me.
edit: also keep in mind that games like this are originally released with censorship, but to less of a degree than this release.

mirumu

I largely agree, but I don’t really think censorship is the price we have to pay for increased awareness of visual novels. If they had chosen a more appropriate game they wouldn’t have needed to censor anything.

Zak Ledward

Or you could just pick an all-ages game and solve the problem there =3= And don’t say there aren’t any good All-Ages VNs out there. Clannad and Little Busters, nuff sed

M’iau M’iaut

Do remember this is Pulltop working very much on their own behalf with their own title. Net bulletin board stories for many years have been that Key is almost actively uninterested in licensing or seeing their games brought over.

Yause

Profit is important to Key. Their stance is that licensees have two options:

1) Prove that the English market is very lucrative (by and large, it’s a money loser, so no hope there)

or

2) Pay a high licensing fee (which VN publishers can’t afford because by and large, these games are money losers) so that Key makes a nice sum regardless of market performance

If profit isn’t guaranteed, they see any venture as a waste of time.

M’iau M’iaut

Which should only strengthen the argument for small steps at a time — we have not earned the right to be in the deep in the of the pool yet. This is not to disparage the quality of Pulltop’s work. As nukiges and eroges go, they are well handled with better than most production values.

Zak Ledward

I see, I must have not read that part concerning MoeNovel and their connection to Pulltop in that they’re trying to promote their own VNs. I still have to say that they’re doing it wrong. Oh well, I’ll just get the original japanese version of KonoSora and deal with what I can understand. I’ll keep an eye on MoeNovel just in case they learn that you don’t take out every single thing that pertains to sex JUST to get a lower ESRB rating. Because, truth be told, that ESRB rating isn’t going to bar the kids that really want the game from getting it. (A.k.a. your favorite uncle is your best friend).

I wasn’t saying that they HAD to be Key novels, I’m just sighting examples of good all-ages VNs. I’m well aware of Keys…phobia(?) of bringing their games overseas. There’s also the Da Capo PSP series, but those are on a dead system and won’t bring in much unless you DD release it.

M’iau M’iaut

Ya from a business standpoint MoeGamer does indeed = Pulltop. Or at least the banner under which Pulltop flies.

If they were to look for an outside of Pulltop series, my hope would be for Infinity. Ever 17 already has a translation and there is a semi official one for Remember 11. Sell to the 999 audience, just as 999 was first marketed as being from the minds of Ever 17.

Zak Ledward

I see, but I must ask (again if this is stated in the article I apologize for being stupid) was the call for the game to be epic-censored (the new tier) made by Pulltop or was that a decision made by MoeGamer alone?

I’ve never played Ever17 or 999, I’m sorry. Though from what VNDB is saying it seems like one of those Nitro+ games that will give me a headache from the amount of mindf*ck present in the story. In any case, there are a lot of potential market in the all-ages genre, yes. It’s just the question of which one people will enjoy the most. At least, that’s what it is to me.

M’iau M’iaut

Moe Gamer is part of the same business entity that Pulltop belongs to, so the decisions are indeed ones made by the same company.

Ever17 really isn’t that crazy in that all the pieces can be put together before the true end arc and everything still works when you see the entirety.

Niyari

did you even think before you hit enter? the correct thing to do is offer feedback since these are the only guys giving us a chance at the moment. hoping they go under is just terrible and would severely hurt the chances of us ever getting another visual novel that isn’t 4+ years old (aka all of MG’s line-up)

324234

Did you? I never said I wanted them to go under. I said I hope the game fails to sell. That it is a disappointment, that their handling hurt it and that they don’t repeat that mistake.
Better a game come four years late than butchered forever.

Tylor Boreas Makimoto

Because after all, it isn’t like one failed game has NEVER sunk a company. /sarcasm

MrSirFeatherFang

has that happened before? wow

Tylor Boreas Makimoto

Probably has been. The likelihood says yes, but I don’t know for certain. If you want to check though, I found this wikipedia category you could go through …

They already said they’re going to keep trying whether this game succeeds or not… so yeah, I hope they learn something from this release, instead of getting the impression everything was alright from the beginning.

Bigabu Beaze

The first picture is so cute!

Raltrios

You might even say…moe?

Laer_HeiSeiRyuu

VN’s seem to be lacking in diversity…

Crimson_Cloud

You didn’t play many of them then…

MXC

A message from me to you MoeNovel and a word of advice. Thanks for not giving up on the fans on the west and best of luck to you guys as someone who appreciates what you guys are trying to do. At the same time, I want you to consider changing the awkward wording of sentences. And lastly, not exactly referring to the 18+ stuff, ease up on the censorship where it complicates things unnecessarily because it makes the original intent weird and probably forces more effort on your side than is necessary. But like I said I really appreciate you guys not giving up and wish you the best of luck along with my support.

supervamp

If they want to broaden the audience they should stick to all ages novels no censorship at all.

Justin Shepherd

There going out of business, don’t waste your time.

Kai2591

*salutes*

MasterScrub

Screw going through the ERSB, release things uncensored and you’ll get all my support and a good deal of my money.

Crazy_O

Thanks for not giving up, but seriously… can’t you make two version of the game, one which is completly uncensored. I don’t feel particulary good when spending money on a game I get a lesser experience from than I should have.

At least where I live in Europe you’d still get an R-16 rating, and no I’m not in some lesser known country. This is the case in Germany. (If there is no sexual violence, things usually get only R-16).

kroufonz

thanks for not giving up!
still censorship is suck
If you want to make all age games then release it on PS3/PSvita no one will be pissed with removed ero content that way (assuming there is some new content added).
alternatively simply give people option make two version of it.
also DRM free for both digital and disk.

better translation would be nice, I am aware translating VN is damn hard finding the right composition, personally I hate to much liberal translation on the otherhand some people can’t take it if it’s to literal.

Crimson_Cloud

On PS3? Muv Luv Total Eclipse. *hint* *hint* XD

MrSirFeatherFang

If you guys want MoeNovel you disliked how they handled the release, why not contact them instead of commenting here?https://twitter.com/Moenovelhttps://www.facebook.com/Moenovel?fref=ts
To be honest though… I don’t think high resolution graphics/CG is enough to warrant releases. The game have to be… well good, fun and written well too, right?
I’m happy to see them trying hard to push VNs in the market, I should probably go ask them to (since they want their games to be rated by the ESRB) localize VNs on the Vita, PS3, 360, etc. Most eroges ported to those consoles have to be the all-ages version so nothing lost.

RichyGaming

I agree with you on this. But unfortunately, good graphics and beautiful HD artwork is often enough to get someone interested and decide to actually get the game these days.

EX: I would ask someone to try…. hmm maybe 2D Final Fantasy 4 when he/she’s playing a much higher quality 3D game. Most of the time he/she will prefer to play the better looking game ONLY because it looks better.

My point is, even though there are fans who support visual novels. A lot of people these days consider games that look appealing before actually trying them.

And to prove that i’m not just trying to sound like a dick and an asshole, i’ll say that I love visual novels even though I barely read a lot of them. And I personally don’t think VNs have to be High resolution as long as the game itself can help you VISUALIZE the story. (Or at least that’s how I look at VNs).

Zoozbuh

When it comes to mass appeal, and trying to appeal to a broader audience, the HD graphics will *definitely* help. I can imagine some casual gamers picking this up because “it looks kinda pretty”, and then being pleasantly surprised by the story/unique style, etc.

Morricane

How can a 3D game look better than 2D Final Fantasy 4! :D

“VISUALIZE the story.” <- I do that when reading books all the time btw…

RichyGaming

lol Final Fantasy 4 is amazing. But I used that out of all the other FFs because even though I played a lot of the main games, FF4 was one of my favorites, but most people who do care for graphics and such wouldnt like 2D small bit games like this so FF4 was a good example.

…And it’s one of my favs xD

Zoozbuh

I totally agree with you about the localising for consoles! Since they went to all the trouble of getting the game rated by the ESRB, they should really take a chance on PSN or something. It would be an extra source of revenue, and be the first ever English VN on home console (that I know of?)

PlatinumMad

Don’t give up, the industry needs more publishers like them, not going for mainstream stuff, most publishers just play safe and publish things than will surely sell. Censorship sucks but it’s is needed, thanks Obama.

I hope somebody traslates Date A Live: Rinne Utopia, it’s on HD so there is a minimal possibility of MoeNovel picking it up.

Laer_HeiSeiRyuu

I’d like an LN reading app

r0gamer940

My only recommendation is to have two versions of the game. Let the market decide then.

nothing956

Or at least an all ages physical release and a adult patch

DyLaN

And then you will have the DLC whining incoming if they release the h patch as DLC.

Honestly I’m just glad some1 stood up and make an effort to popularize VN in the west. Ppl are way too sensitive abt censorship when all ages ver itself is a form of censorship.

landlock

Well Manga gamer seems to be doing alright for themselves since they just announced 10 new titles and 5 more later. Both versions would be better.

I avoided this personally since is wasn’t the adult version. Trying to popularize VN’s this way in the west is only ever going to find limited success, while annoying the fans that are already there.

DyLaN

Oh the market for all ages is def there. I’ve seen community tht are vehemently against sex scenes in VN.

landlock

…but will they gain more then they lose that is the important question. I guess time will tell choice is always better.

In this regard I will be choosing not to support them.

DyLaN

Whtever then. Don’t blame them if VN market fails to grow overseas.

landlock

It’s already growing just look at the increased workload MangaGamer are doing since they first started and of course the improved quality. Koihime Musou met it’s target to get the voice track patched in. Things seems to be pretty well at the moment. More and more VN publishers are signing up to MG and JAST all the time.

Again choice is always better.

DyLaN

But I think most ppl will prefer those more plot base and “mainstream” stuff like those “;” series or key VNs. There are ppl who still thinks VN is “High school dating porn game”.

And honestly most of MG stuff does not interest me as I prefer those more plot based game.

Tom_Phoenix

“MoeNovel”

….Well, if nothing else, you have to give them credit for a very descriptive name.

http://www.siliconera.com/ Ishaan

We asked them about that, too! You’ll see that soon. :)

X_Bacon

I wonder if they picked Konosora specifically for the eye-candy. While it may not be the case for most adult VNs, the adult content on this one is actually well integrated into the story, so making an all-ages/12+ version out of it wasn’t really a good idea. One of the routes ended up so different from the original you could even say they’re telling different stories.

Neckbear

Having played through two routes by now, I don’t feel the adult content would’ve added anything to the story, personally.

MellowMadman11

They also removed things like kissing scenes where you directly see the characters lips touching, and a lot of dialogue was removed/edited because it had a lot of perverted humor.

Neckbear

I still see a whole lot of perverted jokes and such, though. And they didn’t remove the kissing scenes, they edited the CGs.

X_Bacon

They edited them so that we can’t see their lips touching. I think that’s what MellowMadman meant.

MellowMadman11

Yes.
This release has been rated Teen and above by ESRB, and has also been given a 12 rating by PEGI.
It contains love content, but explicit content has been removed.
There are kissing scenes and kissing sounds, but there is no actual
animation showing that.
Beach scenes will show girls in bikini wear, and bathroom scenes will
show girls covered by water, or by towels in bathroom scenes.
The translation might be a little stiff as we have restricted the
dialogues to be similar to the Japanese version, and not allow it to
stray from the original meaning.

MellowMadman11

Edit: ^This statement was a response by Moenovel to a fan asking them what they had changed in the localization.

Morricane

Kisses. That’s ridiculous…@_@

MellowMadman11

That is the thing that makes me hesitant to buy this game, it seems they censored a little more than they needed to.

X_Bacon

Oh, sorry, I should have said it in a clearer way.
I do think the game is still enjoyable as it is, they did a good job in making the necessary modifications to make it as seamless as possible; it’s actually the amount of cut content that bothers me. I can’t help but feel we’re getting an inferior product…

And out of curiosity, was Ageha’s route one of those you’ve played through?

Bacon_n_Lettuce

I say if they want to be successful in the West, start going for games released on consoles. If they stick to PC only, they’re going to have to try to get their games on Steam if they want to see any long term success whatsoever. I’m not saying they won’t survive if they don’t go for Steam, but they definitely won’t be able to break out of their niche otherwise, as Steam is pretty much the standard for mainstream PC games.

Kawashima

I believe that they might put it on Steam as another article says that the Play-Asia digital version is a Steam code.

http://simplephilistine.wordpress.com/ Arla

If you’re going to remove the sex scenes in the games you localize then don’t bother picking up eroge. Ridiculous.

Cerzel

This is really the simplest and most sensible thing. There are plenty of good visual novels out there with no explicit content in them in the first place. Why go out of your way to get a game with objectionable content and remove it before releasing it instead?

Laer_HeiSeiRyuu

Because they can only afford Eroge?

Cerzel

There is nothing to automatically make eroge cheaper than all ages visual novels.

Yause

For simplicity’s sake, you can think of them as “Pulltop USA”. They aren’t independent, and their primary mission is to localize games produced by their parent company.

Ultimately, the goal is to create more demand for their own products and to raise the value of their properties.

Strid

“Ultimately, the goal is to create more demand for their own products and to raise the value of their properties.”

All the more reason why they shouldn’t be censoring their products here. Taking out the adult oriented content in these types of games tends to drive away the very people who’re more likely to buy it in the first place.

Personally, if they aren’t going to release their games “properly” then I’d prefer they just didn’t at all; letting instead, someone else who will [if their games are good enough and they are willing, someone else will].

Jesse Thompson

Please God, localize Amagami already…

gamefreak86

Why no pursue this on more platforms. Thought PlayStation mobile would be nice for them. entry into phone market with no barrier to dev for and can hit the vita market as well, which is the group more likely to have played these kind of games. Be nice for psn to publish but ill take that other option if its the only option.

JuiceKun

I would very much like to see them bring titles such as Fate/Stay Night and Tsukihime over here. I am okay with them cutting the H-content, damn scenes are censored anyway, get over it guys.

pekikuubik

If that were to happen, I propose replacing the sex scenes in F/sn with CG dragons.

Morricane

…or just bring the official PS2 all-ages version over? :)

JuiceKun

Yes, cheesy ones like in the anime adaptation.

Nitraion

Lol can I say most people playing this just for HCG and F-Material?

Morricane

That wouldn’t justify the fact that the non-H content in these titles is like 95%…

Firekitty

This. I play yaoi VNs on occasion, and I really don’t think most of them make for viable fap material; Kuro no Tsuki took me a week to read through one route, and there were only two or so sex scenes, made up of one or two (Not all that graphic) still pictures and a few paragraphs of text. I also got like five hours into Tsukihime without encountering anything off-color (And quit because I found the story boring, but that’s neither here nor there).

The average American romance novel is two to three hundred pages and has at LEAST five extremely graphic sex scenes. And if it’s a historical or fantasy romance, it’s very likely that at least one of those scenes will be, if not actual rape, VERY dubcon.

If they can publish romance novels in English without kicking up a fuss, I’m positive that a few sexy VNs would pass unnoticed. Hot Coffee and the sex scenes in Mass Effect were only such a big deal because they were in major, high-profile games.

AlphaSixNine

It’s nice that they won’t give up on us after all the backlash they got with If My Heart Had Wings. However, I do hope they take note and learn their lesson with all of this. It’s nice to try and spread VN’s to those who know nothing about them but please don’t ignore those who actually know them and want them as they are. Balancing both is the key.

biskmater

Oh, so MoeNovel, hasn’t given up on the west…? I think the reality here is whether the west has given up on MoeNovel or not.

Zoozbuh

Loooooool.

serverny

Nah, after totally destroying game with lazy and radical censorship they will blame “western users not being interested in VNs” for poor sales instead of blaming themselves for gutting game to unplayable experience.

Yggdr5

Nicely put. Now if the whole situation wasn’t this sad… :/

Radiosity

Yeah, they’re really approaching the whole thing from the wrong direction, as if WE’RE the ones to blame. Nice try, guys.

Anonymous

Seems like these guys don’t know know their own target demographic. Blindly making alterations to a given work in order to appeal to a wider audience is always a recipe for disaster.

Kanasuke2

Not sure if I’m allowed to link, but there is a Fan Restoration Patch that restores all the sex scenes in the works

Drop the fan translation talk now folks. If you wish to vote with your money that MoeGamer takes a different path in the future, that’s fine. Work for change the right way, please. Let’s not encourage folks not to take chances. Bigger audiences really can be better.

Ethan_Twain

Wow, this is kinda interesting. Both the article, and the reactions around here. I didn’t previously know about this at all. I’m not sure I understand why people are upset about pornographic content having been excised. What we have here is a company doing their very best to localize visual novels. Not translate, localize. That means actually reviewing the content and customizing the end user experience for the audience in the region.

In Western regions, both porn and especially anime porn are dealbreakers for an AWFUL lot of people. Whether readers here are those people or not, and whether we feel like that should be the status quo or not, I think we can all recognize that this is the society we’re dealing with. There is a fairly low ceiling for achievement for a product containing this adult material.

Products like Telltale’s The Walking Dead or the fantastic Kentucky Route Zero show that there is a market outside Japan for games that contain very little action and are mostly reading/selecting dialogue options. Japan makes a ton of games that fit that description. It would seem that the time is now to try and capture a larger audience than the tiny existing visual novel fanbase. Moenovel is doing exactly that. They’re getting ESRB ratings to try and shed some stigma (and lets be honest, other Visual Novels have done the genre no favors in creating that stigma) and they’re cutting some content so that it’s a game that more people around these parts may enjoy.

It’s a move towards the center. A baby step towards the center. It’s still a date sim anime visual novel, just without the sexing. Here at Siliconera a lot of people are upset about that. They liked Visual Novels the old way. To you I say: this is a tradeoff. You are not just losing your porn scenes, you and others like you could potentially gain from this. Want companies to invest in localization rather than simply translation? Support this. Want visual novels through official channels as opposed to fan translations like that type moon thing? Support this. Want visual novels to have any chance at ALL of growing their market share, leading to more product being provided? Support this! Want higher quality (HD) visual novels? Well this is how it happens!

I think this is could be the beginning of something really good for the western visual novel market.

wyrdwad

The problem is, it’s censoring the original experience. The story is being altered to “clean it up” for American audiences. And if we’re to believe that video games — even adult ones — are a form of art (which I do wholeheartedly believe), then this is a direct affront to the artistic expression of the game’s original creators.

I firmly believe it would be better not to bring the game over at all than to offer only a heavily-censored version of it. What we got is not an accurate representation of the experience the game is meant to convey. And if this catches on, it could set a dangerous precedent — it could lead other companies to believe that censoring artistic expression is OK. And while this particular act of censorship can be justified easily enough… where do you draw the line?

It’s a slippery slope.

M’iau M’iaut

Again, these are the same arguments you trotted out the last time. Pulltop was involved with the process, there is no affront when changes are made with the involvement, input and understanding of the original creators. The original creators in fact, created another version of their own artistic expression.

Again, disagree all you wish. But here, get off the high horse that somehow folks choosing to buy the product for themselves are doing world ending harm to anything.

wyrdwad

I’m not blaming those who choose to buy it. I’m just… worried about how MoeNovel’s decision may affect future releases from other companies. I hope that there are enough others like me out there to send a message to MoeNovel that we want uncensored releases… but if the game proves successful, then clearly this isn’t as important an issue to others as it is to me, and I’ll just have to learn to accept that.

I don’t have to like it, though. ;)

malek86

You should see it another way though: uncensored visual novel releases have already pretty much been proven unsuccessful, so any message on that side would likely not be well received without good reason.

Ethan_Twain

Customizing media for different cultures happens all the time, and in most every form of media. It’s the extra scenes in Iron Man 3′s Chinese release. The bonus track in Random Access Memories’ Japanese release. The mysterious disapperance of little boy Goku’s penis when Dragonball came to the US. The missing blood in Xenosaga 3′s key flashback cutscene (or maybe it was some sort of cyber dimension, those games honestly made NO sense after a while). Tharja’s covered butt in Fire Emblem Awakening DLC. Kasumi’s covered thigh on the Dead or Alive Dimensions cover. It’s removing the reference to the Japanese noodle joint in the original Metroid. This list could go on forever.

The point is, this happens all the time. Indeed, it’s normal. And if you truly are such a strong believer in the merit of authorial intent that you feel distaste consuming any adjusted media then… well, your options are gonna dry up awful quick.

I mean, we aren’t even looking exclusively at foreign works. How do you feel about Gangster Squad? That recent movie had a key scene that was a shooting in a theater with tommy guns, and it was excised at the last minute because of the shootings at Batman in Colarado? How do you feel about Alien 3, a movie that David Fincher to this day refuses to take credit for because he’s so upset with how editing ruined his vision for what the movie was supposed to be? Point is, in any medium with a lot of money on the line, odds are the creator’s original visions have already been compromised just to get the project made. Sometimes drastically. How do you feel about a video game like Bioshock 2 where there was a clear vision for the game… and there was also a clear publisher mandate that there be online shooter multiplayer?

Honestly, what products are you left with?

wyrdwad

Everything you just mentioned is something that bothers me immensely, actually. And they’re excellent examples as to why this particular decision worries me so much — it absolutely terrifies me to think that this sort of thing is actually acceptable to people!

Fortunately, there are a LOT of things I’m left with, particularly from smaller companies and indie developers. Off the top of my head, there’s Knytt Underground, a puzzle-platformer completely devoid of violence and nudity, yet it still managed to get an M rating because of copious (yet realistic) swearing and character development-related sexual dialogue on the part of the main characters. A larger developer would’ve likely toned down the dialogue to get a T rating, but Nifflas stuck to their original vision, and the game was better for it IMHO. Its characters felt more alive and more relatable.

Our own Corpse Party is a great example, too. That’s a game in which high school kids literally get tortured and killed in the most gruesome, horrific ways you can possibly imagine. There’s also nudity and sexual themes present. And you know what? We didn’t censor a single frame of it when we released it here. I think a larger company would’ve — particularly the graphic descriptions of eviscerated kindergarteners and such — but the shock value is part of what makes Corpse Party such a gloriously unsettling series, and we would never deprive gamers of that.

Smaller companies and indie devs are gaining more of a foothold as time goes on, but it seems like larger companies are getting worse and worse, and the ESRB is getting more and more restrictive about censoring box art and magazine ads and such. It’s a sad trend, IMHO, and it is totally not an acceptable one to me. I hope one day to publish a game of my own that pushes the medium to its limits and generates tremendous controversy so I’m able to shine a spotlight on this problem and lobby for change throughout the industry — though that is, of course, nothing more than a pipe dream on my part.

But hey, a dream’s a dream, you know? ;)

Ethan_Twain

Uhh… I feel like I’m missing something important here. Who is “we”? Am I speaking with an employee/representative of the western publisher of that game, Xseed? If you’re actually in the business of translating/localizing media then that would be another angle on this entirely. I’ve only been approaching this as a consumer.

M’iau M’iaut

Yes, he is indeed one of several posters employed within the industry. We truly do get all types in our little corner of the internets.

wyrdwad

Yeah, I’m a translator/editor at XSEED Games. Though to be fair, I’m posting as a gamer — my opinion on this matter isn’t representative of XSEED’s as a whole (though it is true that XSEED doesn’t and won’t censor any games in any way unless we absolutely have to for some reason, but that seems to be less a matter of policy and more a matter of… well, there never really being any good reason TO censor any of our games so far!).

https://twitter.com/Ni_Go_Zero_Ichi Project 2501

In fairness, the censorship in Xenosaga Episode III had the effect of being so lazily implemented that it rendered the scene completely nonsensical. (I mean, even more nonsensical than everything else in Xenosaga already is.) Unlike the other examples you provided, both the censorship itself and its implementation had an actual, tangible impact on the plot and the game’s intended effect with (what was supposed to be) a very important sequence, making it a prime example of how NOT to do this.

Stranger On The Road

Just a note to MoeNovel in the case they are reading this thread. I for one have no problem with galge, but if you are going through the trouble of getting the title officially rated by ESRB and PEGI, then why not release the PS3/PSP/PS Vita versions instead? Why censor the PC version if the console version would do?

P.S. I don’t know if your first release had a console version or not; but in my humble opinion a console release would have been better.

http://www.siliconera.com/ Ishaan

Because you pay royalties to the manufacturer for releasing your game on consoles, and need to go through all sorts of approval processes. All of that stuff adds up.

UmikazeVN

There was no Japanese console release of this title, only an 18+ PC version.

supervamp

I hope they pick an actual all ages novel this time.

Kawashima

I’m glad to see that there is a company willing to publish VNs in the west. As for removing the erotic content, I believe that it was the right decision to do considering that their goals are to spread the genre to as many people as possible. They would have to censor sex scenes since thats just something that doesn’t conform with the status quo. Some good examples would be GTA’s “Hot Coffee” (I think that’s what it was called) and when Rapelay started getting a lot of downloads after being posted online, the media was in a frenzy for the next few days. If they went through the ESRB with all of the Erotic content still in place, it would be in the news right now and further drag VNs deeper into the muck.

kanade3

Hot Coffee was never meant to be released to the public to begin with ,and the reason why the media was in a stir was because the ESRB wasn’t made aware of such content during the rating process.

Rapelay was over the top when it came to sexual content,and dealt with sensitive subject matters like rape .

I don’t see how If My Heart Had Wings would even stir the media when the H content is pretty much consenting high school students having sexual relationships.

Kawashima

Well yeah those two examples were on the extreme side. But leaving the sex scenes in would still give them an AO rating which is pretty much suicidal.

Anonymous

That VN looks nice, Though i’m not a fan VN, Mainly because i just see it as an e-book and that 80% or more are just Hentai Visual Novels

serverny

Its not nice, extremely lazy censorship (cutting even hugs, kisses and “lewd” jokes) just destroyed this VN.

katamari damacy

If you have an all ages version, do a console digital release on PSN. see from there if it is viable.
The only other barometer for pure visual novels selling on consoles in the west is Disgaea Infinity, which additionally benefited from being part of a well known series. If that game was able to recoup translation and port costs, then it would be prudent to also do the same. However if it’s sales were crap then no wonder they didn’t do consoles.

Zoozbuh

Since they went to the trouble of getting it rated for the ESRB and everything, they should totally appeal to Sony and get it put on PSN?? The fact that it’s also high-resolution can only help, surely. We never get any console VNs, and I think there would be a market for ones like this :(

Crimson_Cloud

If they really feel the need to make it an all ages version, then they should pick more plot oriented VNs with a dose of action in it. I know that there are some REALLY good ones out there, but on top of my head comes 11 Eyes. It has intriguing plot and good character interaction that can live solo without the h-content. Or better yet, try to get one of the newer Muv Luv series. ^^

Same with mangagamer, I’ll support them depending on what VN they release. I try to buy one whenever I can but I skip ones with plots that focus on rape and mindbreaking the girls.

kanade3

The problem with a games like 11 Eyes,and Muv Luv in BETA universe setting is the violence/action will be too much for those young girls out there. MoeNovel would have no choice,but to heavily censor,and rewrite the entire scripts for either of those games . If you still don’t understand just think of MoeNovel as the 4kids of VNs.

MoeNovel has stated in a few of their interviews that young girls,and 12 year old French girls are the audience that they are trying to target if you were wondering what I meant by young girls.

Crimson_Cloud

Hmm, changing it too much would suck then but I get your point. Still seems kinda waste for all those good ones laying around unused. Maybe they will expand their horizon after/if they get more successful sales and acquire bigger budget in the future.

Pinkemon

What I always found strange regarding erotic content in VNs relating to the west is that I’ve seen people being all like “In visual novels they do it for the creepy otaku crowd! Its so gross!” yet in the west you can have a book series(Two come to mind, but there’s probably more out there) with explicit erotic content(And it can even get a live-action adaptation) and it has a huge fanbase and I don’t ever see people saying the erotic content is only there for creepy people. I never really got what’s up with that. Either way, though, I totally would like to see VNs get more love outside of japan. I think they’re neat!

Yause

Visual porn has always carried more of a stigma.

However, the biggest problem with eroge is the perceived age of the characters. There are other adult games in the west (such as Singles and Seduce Me), yet none of them elicit quite the same reaction.

Pinkemon

Oh, I see. I if you put it like that I kinda get it now. (The age thing in particular. I DID feel really uncomfortable about how Muv-luv had one romanceable heroine who looked like she was twelve despite being in high school.)

serverny

Nah, “50 shades” is pure art, unlike those creepy VNs where erotic scenes take less than 10% of all material.

Slayven19

Since what one considers good art can be subjective I’m gonna say 50 shades isn’t pure art just cause.

Ladius

They should consider a console port (yeah, I know it isn’t as easy as it sounds, even if they are directly connected with Pulltop), I feel the game would be received better in an environment where visual novels are still new and no one expects ero scenes.

I have bought the physical edition from Playasia, but I still haven’t received it so I can’t comment on the game or its issue. That said, from what I’ve read the criticism isn’t only about censorship, but even about the translation’s quality. Not that it’s uncommon for new visual novel publisher, and regardless of their choices I’m glad they want to stick with our market.

Radiosity

“I fully understand that this isn’t going to be an easy ride.”

I call total BS on that. It’s only being difficult because YOU are making it difficult. All the west needs is faithful translations, no censorship, no alterations at all beyond removing unnecessary ero if you’re aiming for more than the adult market. It’s not difficult, guys, seriously.

Oh and maybe the usual silly ‘all these girls are over 18, honest guv’ disclaimer, especially since a couple of the girls in this game are… rather young looking (the twins) ;)

Ladius

Point is, like it or not that isn’t the business model they’re aiming at. They probably wouldn’t have even started this company if they had to localize eroges, aside from the fact that they haven’t been smart in promoting their All Ages effort (trying to sell this game in the usual eroge venues while completley neglecting Steam, for example, even if Greenlight would have probably blocked them even if they tried).

David García Abril

Leaving the censorship aside, I can tell you that “faithful translations” are no small feat. The problem is that localization is expensive. Yes, even if it’s only subtitles. Plus, the more text a game has, the more expensive to localize it is, so translating VN is VERY expensive. And let’s not kid ourselves: if even the “Ace Attorney” series is struggling to be profitable in the West… I think these games have a pretty small chance…

David García Abril

There’s another issue with this.

It’s annoying for us Europeans, but the truth is that the industry say “Western market”, but in practise they mean “US market”.

Concerning localization, English-only localizations can only carry you so far in Europe. If you REALLY want to have a meaningful presence in that market you need MANY more localizations. And as I’ve said several times before, even subtitles-only translations are expensive.

Small publishers can’t possibly afford to localize text-heavy games to 5 or more languages!

http://www.segalization.com/ Kuronoa

If h scenes are a problem and you like to ESRB your titles, I would focus on consoles and handheld.

Aristides

From the looks of the comments here it seems the VN fanbase has been divided, this of course is pretty bad for such a niche genre who struggles to make it’s mark in the west. If possible I believe localizing console/handheld VNs may be a good idea since censorship(if any) is already done to enter the market in Japan.

I understand the views of those against censorship but I also understand the views of those who support the toned down localization. VN market will never grow in the west if they continue to be eroge games and yet there is a dedicated fanbase for eroge games.

In my personal stance in the topic I believe that VNs could use a shot in the arm with more broader releases like the censored IMHHW localization but perhaps the way they managed it wasn’t the best approach since they are still experimenting with the market and getting a lot of heat for it. I have yet to buy and play the game however I wouldn’t have gone for it if it was you typical eroge VN. I’m not Judging eroge VNs or it’s market, I gone through the Muv-Luv series and the original F/SN and they’re some of my favorite games, I just have no interest in the eroge in those games, just the story. The way I see it a lot of people will continue to miss out on these great stories if they’re boxed in the eroge category only for the enjoyment of a small but dedicated fanbase.

Strid

As someone who buys visual novels, I will not now, nor will I ever buy an eroge without the eroge. I wont buy Steins;Gate without the science, nor would I buy an action/rpg without the action or rpg. Do it right, or take a hike.

MoeNovel gave up on the west, as far as I’m concerned, when they decided to neuter their game.

https://twitter.com/Ni_Go_Zero_Ichi Project 2501

Out of curiosity, does Steam allow unrated or AO-rated games to be released on its service?

M’iau M’iaut

Every sign points to no regards their allowing AO on their store front. It has even been noted that games for which adult versions or adult content are available need to take special steps to ensure that what is being attempted by some outside Pulltop can no be done with a version sold through Steam.

Ladius

Steam would be a great venue for Moenovel’s All Ages effort, it’s frustrating to know they still haven’t tried to pursue that platform (at least afaik) and that, even if they did, they would probably be blocked by Greenlight.

M’iau M’iaut

There was that very early posting that a Steam version was to be available. My hope is they didn’t get turned down because of the ‘no AO possibilities’ supposedly Steam games must confirm to. So what are they left with — downloads through MG and PP, where other good eroges and all-ages have already gone to die.

It is why steps away from the norm must be accepted, regardless of the perceived slight or pain.

Ladius

Exactly, the real issue here is that they want to try something different from what other PC visual novel publishers have done so far, but at the same time they’re forced to use the same distribution channels, which means being unable to reach their target audience.

If they aren’t able to solve this issue, I fear their games will end up catering to a small niche in the already small visual novel fanbase, mostly the few visual novel fans who want to foster the All Ages localization scene and aren’t vehemently opposed to censorship.

M’iau M’iaut

The question I would ask MoeGamer is have you tried Kongregate or GOG. Trying AMZN is damn near worthless, since their end digital game provider is Steam. Almost sickening that in the wide open world of the internet there are so few choices.

Ladius

As much as I like Steam, I think it’s frightening to see how its increasingly hegemonic role in the PC market is making games released through other channels somewhat irrelevant. I love GOG (in fact, I would be glad if it completely replaced Steam), but platforms like it, Gamersgate and others have an extremely small market share and can only offer a bit of help to a niche game compared to Valve’s outlet.

If Steam’s approval procedures were better, or at least made some sense, things could still be bearable, but Greenlight seems designed with the objective of keeping out of Steam every niche game that is unable to generate a relevant amount of hype among its users, and sadly that is pretty much the norm for visual novels and other niche Japanese games (the fact that even Agarest had to go through Greenlight despite being already released worldwide on both X360 and PS3 is telling, even if things turned out well in that case).
I’m glad Recettear and some other Japanese games were able to make it to Steam before Greenlight was introduced, especially since that validated their publishers and made them able to skip Greenlight for their new games.

M’iau M’iaut

You almost wonder if Gabe is actually trying to say only the West is relevant when it come to game development. The doujin market in reality, far predates what would be considered the modern western indie market. Yet, there is not a hint of interest in titles outside of smaller American and Euro studios. Even more interesting considering how aware from a business standpoint Gabe and Harrington should be.

Ladius

I don’t know if they really have such an ideological stance, or if Greenlight is simply a byproduct of their unwillingness to properly curate Steam’s approval procedures by making a community mostly centered on western games decide what should or shouldn’t be released by new publishers or developers.

The fact that they apparently don’t care about the consequences of Greenlight on the viability of localized niche Japanese PC games is pretty sad, even if it’s not so strange considering how small their audience is (even if games like Recettear have been surprisingly successful).

The possibility that such an audience could become larger if Steam embraced it (or at least let it thrive by making their games available) apparently isn’t even considered, even if fostering Japanese gaming on PC could help to make some console-only gamers more interested in PC gaming, or to convince Japanese developers to give a chance to PC ports for their western releases.

https://twitter.com/Ni_Go_Zero_Ichi Project 2501

Good god, people are really getting their panties in a wad over not having their precious porn scenes. Guess MoeNovel is about to learn a tough lesson about trying to market to Western otaku.

kanade3

People are upset over much more then the porn scenes as some of the non H stuff like kissing got censored,and a considerable amount of the story had to be rewritten for it to make sense as the sexual content was integrated into it.

Thing is MoeNovel isn’t even trying to market to Western Otaku as they are trying to target the young people especially girls.

https://twitter.com/Ni_Go_Zero_Ichi Project 2501

Young people? GIRLS?? God forbid!!

Firekitty

marketing to young people and women is fine, as long as you’re doing it with a title intended for those demographics, and not chop-shopping a pre-existing one into something you *think* will appeal to them.

It didn’t work when they tried to edit Card Captor Sakura into a boy’s show, so why would it work with anything else?

Xerain

Dear Pulltop and MoeNovel. I very much want to support your efforts, so please take some advice from your potential customers. I agree that HD All Ages titles are a good way for Visual Novels to break into the US Market. However, it is very hard to sell to a costumer base you are afraid of, or at least believes you to be afraid of them.

When making All Ages titles, please make them the same as if you were making an All Ages title for Japan. Better yet, make an All Ages version for Japan first, then translate that version without any further changes other than the translation. If you have to tone down the All Ages version you woudl make for Japan a little more than normal in anticipation of international release, then so be it.

However as long as you need to make special changes for the West, we will continue to view you as someone who looks down upon us, your customers. This does not go over well here. No matter how much you try, you will never reach the level of success you hope for so long as we don’t believe we are receiving the same respect as your Japanese customers.

Kanasuke2

thankfully there’s a fan restoration patch in the works that restores the sex scenes and restores censored content

http://www.youtube.com/Lyonharvestmoonfan Eduardo Rocha

I hope this is the start of more visual novels comin out on english.

Video game stories from other sites on the web. These links leave Siliconera.