Doug said: "I have given you tangible proof that Islam is a false religion by God's judgment against Islam forth coming when Ezekiel 38-39 takes place. Which will be most likely either this fall or the fall of 2010."

Doug said: Jesus gave prophecy after prophecy plus Revelation to John. He also gave the parable of the fig tree. Applying the understanding of that parable... May 14, 1948+70 years = May 14, 2018, not later than. Not later than May 14,2018, Jesus will return to this earth. Subtracting 7 years for the tribulation period under the Antichrist, May 14, 2018 - 7 = May 14, 2011. No later than May 14, 2011, the Antichrist will confirm the Mt. Sinai covenant with the Jews. Just before then - whatever date it turns out to be - Gog/Magog will take place.Meaning that Gog/Magog will take place not later than May 14, 2011.

Semar said: Wow, this is very interesting statement. This fall or the fall of of 2010, that's very-very close. Let see what will happen. Most of this forum members insha Allah still alive to prove and witness what Dough said.

That I am sure that will happen on that time, insha Allah (God's will) Obama will pull US's troop from Iraq, not anti Christ or Gog/Magog appearance.

If Doug were correct, on 2012 US election, maybe the anti Christ will be US's president candidate, and he will win.. the question is he will joint with democrat or republican...

Sad for Obama, he only have a change for 1 term, and will be the only US's president who has dark skin in the history of human kind...

Hi Semar, I don't know who the Antichrist is. But I am confident that he will not be an US president or come from America.

If you talk to Jews, they interpret the new covenant prophesied in Jeremiah 31:31-34, as a "renewal" of the Mt Sinai covenant....not the gospel message, which they reject.

If one reads in Daniel 9:26-27, the prince who shall come,from the people who destroyed the temple and city, the Romans, "confirms" the covenant with many for seven years. The covenant that he "confirms" will almost certainly be the Mt. Sinai covenant.... for two reasons. 1. That the Antichrist will be unwittingly embraced by the Jews as their messiah. And when he "confirms" the covenant, that will fit in with their expectation of the new covenant being "a renewal" of the Mt. Sinai covenant. 2. The Mt Sinai covenant was the basis for all of the animal sacrifices. In the midst of the seven years, the Antichrist will stop those animal sacrifices.

So there is going to be a temple rebuilt on the temple mount, in spite of Islam being dead set against it. But if Ezekiel 38 and 39 are fulfilled as I believe it will happen, Islam will be destroyed, and the current Muslim impediment to the rebuilding of the temple will be taken out of the way.

That Jerusalem is in the news every day and it status is so difficult for resolution, is what God said he would do. Those prophecies are found in the Tanach. Jerusalem is found all through the Bible, 669 of them are in the Tanach, and 154 times in the New Testament. How many times does Mohamed mention Jerusalem in the Quran?

Doug L.

OK Doug, let see in this fall, or the next fall, it's not very far. Hopefully you are still in this forum you might want to coordinate "breaking news" for this forum about the coming of the AntiChrist. Even you might want to ask him to join to this forum. By the way in your undestanding the antiChrist will have one eye or 2 eyes.

Maybe he will just disappear and make us believe that he got raptured. By the time the Antichrist appears, he should be already on his heavenly taxi.

Say: "Truly, my prayer and my service of sacrifice, my life and my death, are (all) for Allah, the Cherisher of the Worlds. (Surat al-Anaam: 162)

Douggg: So what specifically are you saying is corrupted in the KJV Ezekiel 38 and 39?

Well for one thing, this obsession with Israel being the virtual center of everything. Its all about Israel and the Jews and to hell with everybody else. This is not what I would expect from a God who is just and fair; this preference for one race over all others, as if they are superior in some way.

What specific verses in Ezekiel 38 and 39 are you saying is corrupted, not from God?

Douggg: X, I don't disagree with
you that historically there have been many who placed Jesus's coming at
different dates - but none of those are based up "after the fact" of
Israel having become a nation again, before 1948.
So, you won't find anyone from before 1948 making calculations based on
the fact that Israel had actually become a nation again.

You may call me islamispeace, please.

So, you have all the answers, huh? Why didn't those people try to calculate when Israel would become a nation again, first? Especially, if it was so central to the end times prophecies?

A big portion of the end times prophecies were sealed until the time of the end. The time of the end is identified by scripture as the period in history when travel and knowledge are increased. Meaning our generation.Daniel 12:4 But thou,
O Daniel, s*****p the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the
end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased.Many of the prophecies, such as the world will see the resurrection of the two witnesses in Revelation 11, could not have happened, technologically speaking, until our generation. In our generation we have instant communications globally and satellite TV.

Douggg: It shows that you, as well as all who are of Adam's flesh, have
inherited the penalty of sin, which is death...even before you
committed a single sin.

More nonsense. I was born with a clean slate, innocent and pure. So were you. So was Adam. I became a sinner only through my own actions. So did you. So did Adam.

What happens when a baby dies in infancy? How can it be saved? After all, you say it was born a sinner (such injustice is not becoming of the majesty of God!)?

Your soul was joined to Adam's flesh. That you cannot get around.

1 Have mercy upon me, O God, according to thy lovingkindness: according unto the multitude of thy tender mercies blot out my transgressions.

4 Against thee,
thee only, have I sinned, and done this evil in thy sight: that thou
mightest be justified when thou speakest, and be clear when thou
judgest.

5 Behold, I was shapen in iniquity; and in sin did my mother conceive me.

6 Behold, thou desirest truth in the inward parts: and in the hidden part thou shalt make me to know wisdom.

7 Purge me with hyssop, and I shall be clean: wash me, and I shall be whiter than snow.

Using a hyssop branch, Moses sprinkled the people with blood - sealing the Mt Sinai covenant, foreshadowing the shed blood of Jesus, washing away our sins.

Isaiah 52:14 As many were astonied at thee; his visage was so marred more than any man, and his form more than the sons of men:

15So shall he sprinkle many nations; the kings shall shut their mouths at
him: for that which had not been told them shall they see; and that
which they had not heard shall they consider.

Also the hyssop branch was used to put the blood on the top and sides of the doorframes, during the passover in Egypt. Jesus was the Lamb of God who takes away the sins of the world.

Douggg: Sin affects the physical as well as the spiritual. Sin entered the world when Adam disobeyed.

This is absurd! Like I said, sin is not some physical entity you can touch and hold. If I were to steal, that would be sin, but it does not affect me physically. Its not like I get a tumor from stealing.

If your soul (which is not physical) resides in your body, then why not sin in the flesh of Adam?

Douggg: It affected the animals as well. So they die.

Oh for the love of...I have heard some real nonsense, but the nonsense coming from you is beyond anything else. What do the animals have to do with all this?

It shows that when Adam disobeyed and ate from the tree, sin entered the world and affected everything. The animal's nature changed as well.

Isaiah 11:6 The wolf also shall dwell with the lamb, and the leopard shall lie down with the kid; and the calf and the young lion and the fatling together; and a little child shall lead them.

7 And the cow and the bear shall feed; their young ones shall lie down together: and the lion shall eat straw like the ox.

8 And the sucking child shall play on the hole of the asp, and the weaned child shall put his hand on the cockatrice' den.

Are you saying plants die also because of the sin of Adam?

I don't know what affect sin had on them. I do know this verse...

Romans 8:22 For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now.

23
And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of
the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.

Douggg: You and I are related to Adam more that just by blood. Our bodies are his actual flesh.

Even if this was somehow true, its not like sin infected him like a disease, like AIDS. His sin was his own.

Sin is analogeous to AIDs. Being the first man, created without a sin nature, when he ate from the tree and his nature changed, it affected all who were borne after him and of him.

Douggg: The decision on how Jesus would die was God's decision. Why are you so against the way that God chose?

I am not against God's will. I am against the will of those who would try to subvert his will! People like you!

In other words, you have no idea on how to answer my question.

Douggg: Jesus himself informed the disciples ahead of time how he would die.
That Jesus was crucified meant that his death was witnessed by all.
John the baptist at the beginning of Jesus's public minsitry,
proclaimed Jesus as the "Lamb of God who takes away the sins of the
world". Jesus's death on the cross coincided with passover sacrifice
of the lambs. During the passover coming out of Egypt, death passed
over those who's dwelling was marked by the blood.

All of this is irrelevant. I already know all this. What I want to know is the logic behind it, if any.

Douggg: There are Christian crosses displayed all over the world. Who doesn't
know what those crosses symbolize? And who died upon it.

He could have simply been crushed by a rock, and then that rock would become the symbol of Christianity. Do you see the point I am making? It's not "rocket science", Dougggie!

1Corinthians1:18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.

19 For it is written, I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and will bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent.

Jesus' entire mission rested on the people who condemned him and wanted
to kill him. That means the Pharisees, the Romans, all of them,
ensured that his mission to die for all of us, including the Pharisees
and Romans themselves, would succeed.Therefore, they should be
considered heroes since their actions saved us all. This is air-tight
logic, which you simply cannot refute and so claim that it "is a silly
waste of my time".

Using your logic, the crusaders who killed muslims should be considered by muslims as heros, because they made them martyers so that they could be assured of heaven (in Islam thinking).

I am sure that the Romans, Pharisses would be considered by Satan and the demons as heros because of their role in crucifying Jesus.

btw, when Jesus entered this earth back in the 1st century and cast out demons, the demons were caught off guard, because they did not know the plan of salvation. Satan was behind the inspiration to kill Jesus, thinking that would give him victory. But Satan was blind to God's plan of salvation, which was not understood until after the resurrection.

1Corinthians2:7 But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory:

8 Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.

By the way in your undestanding the antiChrist will have one eye or 2 eyes.

I know that some theorize the Antichrist will be such in association with being mortally wounded based upon Zechariah 11:17 Woe to the idol shepherd that
leaveth the flock! the sword shall be upon his arm, and upon his right
eye: his arm shall be clean dried up, and his right eye shall be
utterly darkened.

I don't know. It may be possible that the Antichrist is killed in such a fashion that leaves him with damaged arm and missing eye. When the Antichrist comes back from being mortally wounded - what his appearance with be I don't know that the bible says. He may retain those wounds to prove to everyone it is him. Or he may be totally recovered in order to deceive people his claim to be god.

It does say in Daniel 8 that he will be a King of fierce countenance, i.e. a stern facial expression.

Douggg: What specific verses in Ezekiel 38 and 39 are you saying is corrupted, not from God?

Like I said, the obsession that Israel is God's chosen nation, and screw everyone else.

There may be some truth in the Old Testament, the chapters of Ezekiel included. But, there is also a lot of falsehood. One of them, I think, is that God favors the Jews, whether they sin or not, over everyone else and treats them differently, even to the point that they are considered superior to everyone else. This is not becoming of a just and fair God.

Douggg: A big portion of the end times prophecies were sealed until the time of the end.

Well, how convenient! Don't we need a prophet to interpret these prophecies?

Douggg: The time of the end is
identified by scripture as the period in history when travel and
knowledge are increased. Meaning our generation.What sort of knowledge? If you mean spiritual, then actually the opposite happened, because the world is more secular and religious knowledge has decreased.

It seems to me that if Israel's second birth was so central to the end times, there would have been more information about it in the Bible, and apocalyptic fanatics would have tried to figure out when that would occur beforethey even thought about trying to figure out the end times. Its like trying to walk before you crawl.

Douggg: Your soul was joined to Adam's flesh. That you cannot get around.

Sure I can, because my flesh is different from his and my sins are my own.

You have a bad habit of ignoring questions when they are posed to you. I asked about the babies:

What happens when a baby dies in infancy? How can it be saved? After
all, you say it was born a sinner (such injustice is not becoming of
the majesty of God!)?

Douggg: If your soul (which is not physical) resides in your body, then why not sin in the flesh of Adam?

Because my soul is my own, as well! On the Day of Judgment, when our souls are brought forth, we will not have a pile of "sin" next to us. Or a pile of "good deeds" next to us, for that matter. Do you see the difference?

Douggg: It shows that when Adam disobeyed and ate from the tree, sin entered
the world and affected everything. The animal's nature changed as
well.

It shows that you have an overactive imagination. The animals have nothing to do with the whole grand scheme. They don't have free will. It makes no sense to include them.

Douggg: I don't know what affect sin had on them. I do know this verse...Romans 8:22 For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now.

23
And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of
the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.

See, this is the nonsense I am talking about. These words of Paul seem to suggest that plants too have been tainted by sin! They can't even move or make a sound! They just grow from the ground!

Douggg: Sin is analogeous to AIDs. Being the first man, created without a sin
nature, when he ate from the tree and his nature changed, it affected
all who were borne after him and of him.

I am getting tired of hearing the same nonsense. Believe what you will, but don't tell me to believe it as well.

Douggg: 1Corinthians1:18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.

19 For it is written, I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and will bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent.

Once again, you failed to answer the question! Instead, you question my "wisdom". You know what that is called? Its an ad hominem fallacy. So, lets see now. You have used a red herring, a non-sequitur and now an ad hominem. Looking good, Dougggie!

Douggg: Using your logic, the crusaders who killed muslims should be considered
by muslims as heros, because they made them martyers so that they could
be assured of heaven (in Islam thinking).

False analogy! Boy, you are doing good!

The difference between your pathetic analogy and that of mine is that the Muslims who were killed had not planned on it from the start. Jesus apparently did. And they certainly were not dying for the sins of others! Douggg: I am sure that the Romans, Pharisses would be considered by Satan and
the demons as heros because of their role in crucifying Jesus.

btw,
when Jesus entered this earth back in the 1st century and cast out
demons, the demons were caught off guard, because they did not know the
plan of salvation. Satan was behind the inspiration to kill Jesus,
thinking that would give him victory. But Satan was blind to God's
plan of salvation, which was not understood until after the
resurrection.

We are not talking about the demons and Satan. We are talking about the humans who supposedly killed Jesus. But if you do want to talk about them, they too can be considered heroes because by doing what they did, they ensured God's plan would succeed, even though they did not know what they were doing.

Anyway, contrary to your assumption that Satan did not know how humans could achieve salvation, the Quran tells us that he did. It was quite simple. Believe in Allah! That's it!

7:16-18He (Satan) said: "Because thou hast thrown me out of the way, lo! I
will lie in wait for them on thy straight way:
"Then will I assault them from before them and behind them,
from their right and their left: Nor wilt thou find, in most of them,
gratitude (for thy mercies)." (Allah) said: "Get out from this, disgraced and expelled. If any
of them follow thee,- Hell will I fill with you all.

Satan knew that all people had to do was believe in Allah and follow his commandments, so when he was cast out from the presence of Allah, he knew what to do. He was able to get Adam and Eve to disobey God, which got them booted out from Heaven. But, he failed to sway them from worshiping Allah, which was the key back into Heaven for them, and for us as well.

Douggg: 1Corinthians2:7 But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory:

8 Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.

In other words, they were pawns.

Before I close, I forgot in my last post that you had not answered my points on why the Biblical Jesus was such a racist. For convenience, I will paste my response to your fallacy here:

What Jesus may have said to the Roman does not
change what he may have said to the woman he referred to as a dog just
because she was a gentile. Or was Jesus reneging on his racist
attitudes? Did he reform?

You can't simply ignore these questions and think you will get away with it. I will keep asking until I get an answer.

Edited by islamispeace - 17 July 2009 at 8:26pm

Say: "Truly, my prayer and my service of sacrifice, my life and my death, are (all) for Allah, the Cherisher of the Worlds. (Surat al-Anaam: 162)

Douggg: What specific verses in Ezekiel 38 and 39 are you saying is corrupted, not from God?

Like I said, the obsession that Israel is God's chosen nation, and screw everyone else.

There may be some truth in the Old Testament, the chapters of Ezekiel included. But, there is also a lot of falsehood. One of them, I think, is that God favors the Jews, whether they sin or not, over everyone else and treats them differently, even to the point that they are considered superior to everyone else. This is not becoming of a just and fair God.

Could you do a copy and paste of the official Muslim version of Ezekiel 38 & 39 which shows only the uncorrupted verses?

Douggg: What specific verses in Ezekiel 38 and 39 are you saying is corrupted, not from God?

Like I said, the obsession that Israel is God's chosen nation, and screw everyone else.

There may be some truth in the Old Testament, the chapters of Ezekiel included. But, there is also a lot of falsehood. One of them, I think, is that God favors the Jews, whether they sin or not, over everyone else and treats them differently, even to the point that they are considered superior to everyone else. This is not becoming of a just and fair God.

Could you do a copy and paste of the official Muslim version of Ezekiel 38 & 39 which shows only the uncorrupted verses?

Doug L.

There is no official version of Ezekiel. We have our own knowledge of the end times. According to those sources, Imam Mahdi will lead the Muslims during the reign of the Antichrist and Jesus will descend in Damascus and kill the Antichrist. After that, Gog and Magog will be released and spread throughout the world, only to be destroyed and fed on by birds and beasts, similar to the Ezekiel account. But, Gog and Magog will not be Muslims.

Edited by islamispeace - 18 July 2009 at 3:06pm

Say: "Truly, my prayer and my service of sacrifice, my life and my death, are (all) for Allah, the Cherisher of the Worlds. (Surat al-Anaam: 162)

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