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Re: Fire cam

Originally Posted by wickedsolo

Not that I really disagree with you, but Pitta and Dickson virtually ran the same 40-time at the combine...

Dickson was actually a full tenth faster in the 40 at the combine. Doesn't sound like much but .10 in a 40 is a fairly substancial amount. However Pitta did test much faster on the shuttle and three cone which would project better lateral agility and potential route running.

Re: Fire cam

I did not intend to sterotype Dickson and Pitta at all. I just don't see Pitta being able to outrun LBs and get deep. Timmons was all over Pitta in the Steelers games, and the times that I have seen the Ravens run deep patters to the TEs, they have thrown the ball to Dickson. They seem to throw more underneath passes (possession passes) to Pitta (like they do with Boldin) and more deeper routes to Dickson (like they do with Torrey Smith).

Just go back to previous years. In 2011 he was more even although still better inside than outside the numbers. In 2010 he was 20+ points better inside than outside, not as extreme of a split. In 2009 he was WAY better throwing left, mediocre throwing middle, and not very good throwing right, but again not by as extreme a split. In 2008 he was again more even overall.

Not sure what the meaningful data to take away from prior years is.

Originally Posted by Ravenswintitle

are a lot of those 'inside the numbers' passes just dump offs? that may be a big part of it because they don't run many crossing routes

Not sure if you're trolling, but he's averaging almost 9 yards per attempt inside the numbers, so no, they're not "just dump offs". These stats include ALL passes thrown inside the numbers, including deep balls like the post and deep seam routes, which Flacco appears to hit at a much better clip to that area of the field rather than your true "go" routes straight up the sideline.

He's averaging 5.6 YPA outside the numbers. The huge disparity in YPA is a big reason why the passer rating is so much higher, as is completion percentage. Joe's near 75% inside the numbers vs. about 45% outside the numbers.

The question is, what do these numbers mean? I think they're an indictment of this offense's refusal to consistently attack the middle of the field where they have the potential to be extremely successful. I don't think Joe is just somehow magically way better passing to the middle of the field than the sidelines, I think it's a scheme issue.

Re: Fire cam

Just go back to previous years. In 2011 he was more even although still better inside than outside the numbers. In 2010 he was 20+ points better inside than outside, not as extreme of a split. In 2009 he was WAY better throwing left, mediocre throwing middle, and not very good throwing right, but again not by as extreme a split. In 2008 he was again more even overall.

Not sure what the meaningful data to take away from prior years is.

Not sure if you're trolling, but he's averaging almost 9 yards per attempt inside the numbers, so no, they're not "just dump offs". These stats include ALL passes thrown inside the numbers, including deep balls like the post and deep seam routes, which Flacco appears to hit at a much better clip to that area of the field rather than your true "go" routes straight up the sideline.

He's averaging 5.6 YPA outside the numbers. The huge disparity in YPA is a big reason why the passer rating is so much higher, as is completion percentage. Joe's near 75% inside the numbers vs. about 45% outside the numbers.

The question is, what do these numbers mean? I think they're an indictment of this offense's refusal to consistently attack the middle of the field where they have the potential to be extremely successful. I don't think Joe is just somehow magically way better passing to the middle of the field than the sidelines, I think it's a scheme issue.

It's mind boggling how Cam just ignores the middle of the field. I don't get it. I'd love for someone to ask Harbaugh or Cam about how they use the middle of the field.

Re: Fire cam

Let's see! Mmmmmmmm.....!

Dickson's faster but can't catch

Pitta's slower but can catch

I wonder which guy I'd rather have? Seems like a big dilemma to me!

Originally Posted by Cj34

Dickson was actually a full tenth faster in the 40 at the combine. Doesn't sound like much but .10 in a 40 is a fairly substancial amount. However Pitta did test much faster on the shuttle and three cone which would project better lateral agility and potential route running.

Re: Fire cam

Just go back to previous years. In 2011 he was more even although still better inside than outside the numbers. In 2010 he was 20+ points better inside than outside, not as extreme of a split. In 2009 he was WAY better throwing left, mediocre throwing middle, and not very good throwing right, but again not by as extreme a split. In 2008 he was again more even overall.

Not sure what the meaningful data to take away from prior years is.

Not sure if you're trolling, but he's averaging almost 9 yards per attempt inside the numbers, so no, they're not "just dump offs". These stats include ALL passes thrown inside the numbers, including deep balls like the post and deep seam routes, which Flacco appears to hit at a much better clip to that area of the field rather than your true "go" routes straight up the sideline.

He's averaging 5.6 YPA outside the numbers. The huge disparity in YPA is a big reason why the passer rating is so much higher, as is completion percentage. Joe's near 75% inside the numbers vs. about 45% outside the numbers.

The question is, what do these numbers mean? I think they're an indictment of this offense's refusal to consistently attack the middle of the field where they have the potential to be extremely successful. I don't think Joe is just somehow magically way better passing to the middle of the field than the sidelines, I think it's a scheme issue.

Exploring this a bit more...Joe's between the numbers (BTN) breakdown:

Completions to Ray and Dennis do represent a good portion of Joe's excellent middle efficiency, and Boldin represents another portion. In the "BTN 9 yards or less" zone, all three guys together are 53/66 for 526 yards, and 1 INT. That's 93.6 efficiency. Adding in Torrey's numbers gets you a total of 63/78 for 692 yards, 1 TD and 2 INTs. That's 97.2 efficiency.

Looking at Torrey in the "BTN 9 yards or less zone"...with 7 fewer receptions than Boldin (10 vs. 17), Torrey has only 1 less yard receiving. This seems to qualify the repeated thought around here that Torrey's speed directly (i.e., separation) and/or indirectly (i.e., earning a big pre-snap cushion) has much greater value (compared to Boldin) inside the numbers. I say "seems" due to the small sample set.

Editing this in: And on those 10 fewer receptions...Torrey has +31 YAC compared to Boldin. Last year, with 4 fewer catches (11 vs. 15) in the same "BTN 9 yards or less" zone, Torrey had +47 YAC compared to Boldin.

Note: For the yardage categories above, it's how far the ball traveled in the air.
Note 2: All stats from PFF.com

Re: Fire cam

Wasn't that the year that Ozzie didn't trade up and the Patriots jumped up over us to get Gronkowski - and then Ozzie traded back and we got Kindle. Now there was a genius move! Maybe I got my drafts mixed up - but all I remember is that we cheaped it out. No matter we'd have Gronkowski blocking while we throw (or should I say overthrow) 9 routes.

Wasn't that the year that Ozzie didn't trade up and the Patriots jumped up over us to get Gronkowski - and then Ozzie traded back and we got Kindle. Now there was a genius move! Maybe I got my drafts mixed up - but all I remember is that we cheaped it out. No matter we'd have Gronkowski blocking while we throw (or should I say overthrow) 9 routes.

Get a grip man. We had no ammo to move up as a result of the Boldin trade.

The only talent-based misjudgment that draft was taking Dickson over Hernandez and Graham.

"We are so ingrained to the systematic neglect on offense that we let recency bias of "being up by 14 points" convince us that our offense does not need attention." - bt12483

Re: Fire cam

It's truly amazing to me that a bunch of guys (fans) on the internet can go out and research these numbers, film, etc. and lay out factual proof that what Cam is doing (rather attempting to do) completely goes against the grain of our players' talent and skills, not to mention the high risk low percentage results that come with what he's trying to do.

Couple that with your best offensive play maker being forgotten about from time to time and a struggling (and injured) defense that you want to keep off the field as much as possible.

How in the hell can a bunch of arm chair QBs see and understand what's wrong, but the people getting paid big bucks to figure this stuff out and implement corrections can't?

Earlier today Davis & Norris had Keion Carpenter on for an interview and were asking him about what he thought about what is taking place here.
As a former NFL DB he said playing against this offense is by far the easiest to defend.
Very predictable with no deception.
Easy to play off the line because the film shows you everything including tendencies which in his eyes we have way too many that occur continually with little wavering.
He said that if he can see it just by watching some Ravens games here and there when he gets them on TV down in Atlanta, then he damn sure knows every coach and player having to game plan against them sees it.