From my colleague: "When are you gonna get a new car? It's so old! And, really, manual door locks??! You might as well be living in the 80s!"Me: "You know what else my car has? No monthly payments, and low gas bills. I'll get rid of it when it falls apart on the highway."*Silence*Colleage: "HOW did you manage no car payments??!?! Did your parents buy you a car?"

Excuse me, I'm gonna go hit my head against the wall now.

For the record: I drive a 2011 Honda Fit that my husband and I bought new in 2011. It has no AC, manual locks, and is VERY reliable. We share the car, so we only HAVE one car to afford and maintain. And how we managed car payments: well, we bought a car after 5 years of working professional-level jobs in a city with excellent public transit, and we saved money instead of going out every night. That's how we afforded the car.

Parents, indeed *harumph* Honestly, I'm kind of insulted.

You bought a 2011 model that didn't have AC or auto locks...didn't know that was possible, my '99 toyota has both plus heated seats. Don't tell me you have to manually roll down the windows too?

My 2007 hyundai accent has AC, but not power locks and windows. They're still out there!

From my colleague: "When are you gonna get a new car? It's so old! And, really, manual door locks??! You might as well be living in the 80s!"Me: "You know what else my car has? No monthly payments, and low gas bills. I'll get rid of it when it falls apart on the highway."*Silence*Colleage: "HOW did you manage no car payments??!?! Did your parents buy you a car?"

Excuse me, I'm gonna go hit my head against the wall now.

For the record: I drive a 2011 Honda Fit that my husband and I bought new in 2011. It has no AC, manual locks, and is VERY reliable. We share the car, so we only HAVE one car to afford and maintain. And how we managed car payments: well, we bought a car after 5 years of working professional-level jobs in a city with excellent public transit, and we saved money instead of going out every night. That's how we afforded the car.

Parents, indeed *harumph* Honestly, I'm kind of insulted.

You bought a 2011 model that didn't have AC or auto locks...didn't know that was possible, my '99 toyota has both plus heated seats haha. Don't tell me you have to manually roll down the windows too?

The no-AC is a bit of a drag in summer, but I discussed it with my husband last week (because we're looking at needing a second car in about 18 months, and will likely buy another fit, since it's perfect for our needs and we have no complaints and it's a good car for a good price): we're in Quebec. Assuming we keep a car 6 years (we're rural and drive a lot), that 3K extra is 500$/summer for AC on the car. Which, realistically, we'd actually use... 25 days? Maybe 30?

Like, at that price, open the windows.

The AC on my '06 is functionally broken. It is a white car but with a black interior. Yeah, for those thirty days, for half an hour each, it is pretty awful. But then I discovered that I can just keep my windows cracked open two centimetres when I'm not using it and a few more while driving.

From my colleague: "When are you gonna get a new car? It's so old! And, really, manual door locks??! You might as well be living in the 80s!"Me: "You know what else my car has? No monthly payments, and low gas bills. I'll get rid of it when it falls apart on the highway."*Silence*Colleage: "HOW did you manage no car payments??!?! Did your parents buy you a car?"

Excuse me, I'm gonna go hit my head against the wall now.

For the record: I drive a 2011 Honda Fit that my husband and I bought new in 2011. It has no AC, manual locks, and is VERY reliable. We share the car, so we only HAVE one car to afford and maintain. And how we managed car payments: well, we bought a car after 5 years of working professional-level jobs in a city with excellent public transit, and we saved money instead of going out every night. That's how we afforded the car.

Parents, indeed *harumph* Honestly, I'm kind of insulted.

You bought a 2011 model that didn't have AC or auto locks...didn't know that was possible, my '99 toyota has both plus heated seats haha. Don't tell me you have to manually roll down the windows too?

The no-AC is a bit of a drag in summer, but I discussed it with my husband last week (because we're looking at needing a second car in about 18 months, and will likely buy another fit, since it's perfect for our needs and we have no complaints and it's a good car for a good price): we're in Quebec. Assuming we keep a car 6 years (we're rural and drive a lot), that 3K extra is 500$/summer for AC on the car. Which, realistically, we'd actually use... 25 days? Maybe 30?

Like, at that price, open the windows.

The AC on my '06 is functionally broken. It is a white car but with a black interior. Yeah, for those thirty days, for half an hour each, it is pretty awful. But then I discovered that I can just keep my windows cracked open two centimetres when I'm not using it and a few more while driving.

I get a remark about once a week about my phone (an iphone 5, barely 3 years old)

So far i've been able to replace the battery, screen and charger port. The charger port I was told by apple that it was impossible to replace. $10 from amazon later it's good as new. I didn't realize how easy the iphones were to fix and tear down.

I get a remark about once a week about my phone (an iphone 5, barely 3 years old)

So far i've been able to replace the battery, screen and charger port. The charger port I was told by apple that it was impossible to replace. $10 from amazon later it's good as new. I didn't realize how easy the iphones were to fix and tear down.

That's really good to hear. I've had my iPhone 4 screen shatter twice. Both times it was so bad I could not use the phone and it was when I was so busy I was like "I have to have this fixed RIGHT NOW, I cannot even wait a day for parts to come, let alone spend time fixing it", so I dashed to a high street repair shop. (I need emails on my phone all the time for work, and I'm self-employed.) But I'd like it to break one day when I have time to try out fixing it myself.

I get a remark about once a week about my phone (an iphone 5, barely 3 years old)

So far i've been able to replace the battery, screen and charger port. The charger port I was told by apple that it was impossible to replace. $10 from amazon later it's good as new. I didn't realize how easy the iphones were to fix and tear down.

I too have the same phone and it's about the same age. It was handed down to me by a friend who's contract had ended. She was paying $65 a month for it and is now paying a similar amount for her iPhone 6. Meanwhile I have a 30 day rolling contract that allows me 125 minutes, 100MB of data and 500 texts, and it costs $6.50 per month. In a year's time her new contract would have ended, so I will probably get her iPhone 6. I can then sell the iPhone 5 and that will pay my monthly bill for at least 6 months.

I too have the same phone and it's about the same age. It was handed down to me by a friend who's contract had ended. She was paying $65 a month for it and is now paying a similar amount for her iPhone 6. Meanwhile I have a 30 day rolling contract that allows me 125 minutes, 100MB of data and 500 texts, and it costs $6.50 per month. In a year's time her new contract would have ended, so I will probably get her iPhone 6. I can then sell the iPhone 5 and that will pay my monthly bill for at least 6 months.

On topic, I work with someone who bought a $7,000 riding mower the other week. He lives on half an acre. When I asked him why he bought it, he said that he wanted one that would last. Riiiight...

Have never needed one, how much should one ordinarily spend?

I lived on 2.5 acres with my ex. We paid $500 for a used fairly high end John Deere.

Back in spendypants days we bought one new off the floor for $1500 +/-. It was an MTD though - even then I wasn't willing to pay a premium for green paint. And having worked in a machine shop making parts for JD, I never felt like there was anything special about them.

The only good thing about a JD tractor is when it comes with a Yanmar engine.

I get a remark about once a week about my phone (an iphone 5, barely 3 years old)

So far i've been able to replace the battery, screen and charger port. The charger port I was told by apple that it was impossible to replace. $10 from amazon later it's good as new. I didn't realize how easy the iphones were to fix and tear down.

I too have the same phone and it's about the same age. It was handed down to me by a friend who's contract had ended. She was paying $65 a month for it and is now paying a similar amount for her iPhone 6. Meanwhile I have a 30 day rolling contract that allows me 125 minutes, 100MB of data and 500 texts, and it costs $6.50 per month. In a year's time her new contract would have ended, so I will probably get her iPhone 6. I can then sell the iPhone 5 and that will pay my monthly bill for at least 6 months.

Depreciation is killer. $63k for this low mileage 2012 which according to the description had a new sticker price of $131k. That works out to $2.91/mile in deprecation alone!

The sweet spot is models that are 6 years old and the manuf warranties are expired. You can get 5-6 year old LS 460L for $mid-20s to $low-30s, mileage dependent. A 2011 model with 26500 miles is advertised for $35k. I'm not sold on the hybrid stuff.

Logged

Signature worthless. I'm worth more dead than alive. Wife and kids will collect. Or Uncle Sam will, you can rely on Him.

Same as the non-hybrid (AWD models) on the highway. The only improvement is with city economy, which goes from 16 mpg to 19 mpg. I'm guessing it still has to use the V8 at highway speeds. Also, it weighs 5,115 pounds!

Same as the non-hybrid (AWD models) on the highway. The only improvement is with city economy, which goes from 16 mpg to 19 mpg. I'm guessing it still has to use the V8 at highway speeds. Also, it weighs 5,115 pounds!

5115lbs! Is it an armoured car or does it also do heavy excavation work? (Yeah I know there are way heavier cars than even this, sadly).

Same as the non-hybrid (AWD models) on the highway. The only improvement is with city economy, which goes from 16 mpg to 19 mpg. I'm guessing it still has to use the V8 at highway speeds. Also, it weighs 5,115 pounds!

5115lbs! Is it an armoured car or does it also do heavy excavation work? (Yeah I know there are way heavier cars than even this, sadly).

It's all the safety features.... if you believe the other flame/thread on the topic. :D

Logged

Give me one fine day of plain sailing weather and I can mess up anything.

I get a remark about once a week about my phone (an iphone 5, barely 3 years old)

So far i've been able to replace the battery, screen and charger port. The charger port I was told by apple that it was impossible to replace. $10 from amazon later it's good as new. I didn't realize how easy the iphones were to fix and tear down.

That's really good to hear. I've had my iPhone 4 screen shatter twice. Both times it was so bad I could not use the phone and it was when I was so busy I was like "I have to have this fixed RIGHT NOW, I cannot even wait a day for parts to come, let alone spend time fixing it", so I dashed to a high street repair shop. (I need emails on my phone all the time for work, and I'm self-employed.) But I'd like it to break one day when I have time to try out fixing it myself.

If you're the kinda person who breaks screens frequently and can't wait 24hours (amazon has same day shipping on iphone 5 screens in my area) it may be prudent to just have one handy since they are only $22. About a quarter of the price of having it repaired. Watch some of the "jerryrigeverything" youtubes and you'll be able to fix them easily in no time.

Speaking of iPhones, my 4S died recently and couldn't be fixed. I qualified for a free upgrade to a 6, or - for a mere $50 - I could get a 6S. I kept saying patiently "I want the free one, please." The guy didn't give up until I said "Look - I loved my 4S. The only reason why I'm here today for an upgrade is that it can't be fixed."

I had this conversation today... it's not mind blowing like somethings on this thread, but it amused me. Because CW seems very suspicious of our lifestyle and loves to challenge me when we are "spending money" as if to prove we aren't as frugal as we appear (I feel I should note, I never actually bring up money with this particular person, she just really seems very interested in how I choose to spend my money since the time she over heard me talking about savings and retirement with someone who was genuinely interested and of a similar mindset of me)

CW: What are you doing tonight?Me: Going to a baseball game.CW: Oh, [Triple A team one hour away]? That's fun. But I thought you didn't spend money on things like that!Me: No, [college league team in town]. The games are a lot fun and tickets are really cheap, even if DH hadn't gotten tonight's tickets free through work.CW: Well you still have to drive there and pay for gas!Me: We'll ride our bikes. It's only about 5 miles.CW: But it might rain.Me: So we'll get wet?CW: Well you still have to eat supper at the park!Me: We'll just eat at home before we go. CW: That's just weird.

CW, really nice lady, invited me and other colleagues to go to Starbucks (I generally drink Starbucks when join colleagues or friends). On our way we had a small talk and somehow ended up discussing Costco. I complained that every time my husband and I go there, we end up leaving a bunch of money there. Minimum $80. This happens because generally we eat quite pricy food because we love fruits, veggies, fish, cheese, and wine.

CW told that that was nothing because she and her husband leave there at least $800 each time they go..

I was so shocked that did not have time to ask how often they do this.

I had this conversation today... it's not mind blowing like somethings on this thread, but it amused me. Because CW seems very suspicious of our lifestyle and loves to challenge me when we are "spending money" as if to prove we aren't as frugal as we appear (I feel I should note, I never actually bring up money with this particular person, she just really seems very interested in how I choose to spend my money since the time she over heard me talking about savings and retirement with someone who was genuinely interested and of a similar mindset of me)

CW: What are you doing tonight?Me: Going to a baseball game.CW: Oh, [Triple A team one hour away]? That's fun. But I thought you didn't spend money on things like that!Me: No, [college league team in town]. The games are a lot fun and tickets are really cheap, even if DH hadn't gotten tonight's tickets free through work.CW: Well you still have to drive there and pay for gas!Me: We'll ride our bikes. It's only about 5 miles.CW: But it might rain.Me: So we'll get wet?CW: Well you still have to eat supper at the park!Me: We'll just eat at home before we go. CW: That's just weird.

I had this conversation today... it's not mind blowing like somethings on this thread, but it amused me. Because CW seems very suspicious of our lifestyle and loves to challenge me when we are "spending money" as if to prove we aren't as frugal as we appear (I feel I should note, I never actually bring up money with this particular person, she just really seems very interested in how I choose to spend my money since the time she over heard me talking about savings and retirement with someone who was genuinely interested and of a similar mindset of me)

CW: What are you doing tonight?Me: Going to a baseball game.CW: Oh, [Triple A team one hour away]? That's fun. But I thought you didn't spend money on things like that!Me: No, [college league team in town]. The games are a lot fun and tickets are really cheap, even if DH hadn't gotten tonight's tickets free through work.CW: Well you still have to drive there and pay for gas!Me: We'll ride our bikes. It's only about 5 miles.CW: But it might rain.Me: So we'll get wet?CW: Well you still have to eat supper at the park!Me: We'll just eat at home before we go. CW: That's just weird.

TIL it is apparently weird to eat before attending a sports game.

I am not at all frugal about eating out (I know, it's on me), but I will eat a protein bar on the way rather than ice cold nachos or an old hot dog at a sports game. Even in box seats at major NYC games, I still haven't seen too much approaching actual food at games.

...CW seems very suspicious of our lifestyle and loves to challenge me when we are "spending money" as if to prove we aren't as frugal as we appear

I guard against this by giving people way too much information. Even though friends/relatives don't question my spending, I still feel the need to share with them my entire rationale. A friend noticed that I was wearing a new cardigan.

Me: "I sold five things on eBay offset the cost!" Her: "... I was just going to say it was pretty!"

I had this conversation today... it's not mind blowing like somethings on this thread, but it amused me. Because CW seems very suspicious of our lifestyle and loves to challenge me when we are "spending money" as if to prove we aren't as frugal as we appear (I feel I should note, I never actually bring up money with this particular person, she just really seems very interested in how I choose to spend my money since the time she over heard me talking about savings and retirement with someone who was genuinely interested and of a similar mindset of me)

CW: What are you doing tonight?Me: Going to a baseball game.CW: Oh, [Triple A team one hour away]? That's fun. But I thought you didn't spend money on things like that!Me: No, [college league team in town]. The games are a lot fun and tickets are really cheap, even if DH hadn't gotten tonight's tickets free through work.CW: Well you still have to drive there and pay for gas!Me: We'll ride our bikes. It's only about 5 miles.CW: But it might rain.Me: So we'll get wet?CW: Well you still have to eat supper at the park!Me: We'll just eat at home before we go. CW: That's just weird.

I enjoyed this.

But I'm the weirdo who takes her kids to free concerts at the park instead of pay concerts. Parks for free and walks a mile. And eats before we go, and then packs water to drink.

From my colleague: "When are you gonna get a new car? It's so old! And, really, manual door locks??! You might as well be living in the 80s!"Me: "You know what else my car has? No monthly payments, and low gas bills. I'll get rid of it when it falls apart on the highway."*Silence*Colleage: "HOW did you manage no car payments??!?! Did your parents buy you a car?"

Excuse me, I'm gonna go hit my head against the wall now.

For the record: I drive a 2011 Honda Fit that my husband and I bought new in 2011. It has no AC, manual locks, and is VERY reliable. We share the car, so we only HAVE one car to afford and maintain. And how we managed car payments: well, we bought a car after 5 years of working professional-level jobs in a city with excellent public transit, and we saved money instead of going out every night. That's how we afforded the car.

Parents, indeed *harumph* Honestly, I'm kind of insulted.

You bought a 2011 model that didn't have AC or auto locks...didn't know that was possible, my '99 toyota has both plus heated seats. Don't tell me you have to manually roll down the windows too?

Yeah, my car, which is a '93 Accord also has Power Windows, Power Mirrors, auto locks, and AC (though the AC kind of sucks and I never turn it on cause it kills the mileage).

My colleagues also keep on asking me when I'm going to buy a new car. My standard response is I will buy one when my current car isn't doing its job anymore ... which is to get me from Point A to Point B.

I had this conversation today... it's not mind blowing like somethings on this thread, but it amused me. Because CW seems very suspicious of our lifestyle and loves to challenge me when we are "spending money" as if to prove we aren't as frugal as we appear (I feel I should note, I never actually bring up money with this particular person, she just really seems very interested in how I choose to spend my money since the time she over heard me talking about savings and retirement with someone who was genuinely interested and of a similar mindset of me)

CW: What are you doing tonight?Me: Going to a baseball game.CW: Oh, [Triple A team one hour away]? That's fun. But I thought you didn't spend money on things like that!Me: No, [college league team in town]. The games are a lot fun and tickets are really cheap, even if DH hadn't gotten tonight's tickets free through work.CW: Well you still have to drive there and pay for gas!Me: We'll ride our bikes. It's only about 5 miles.CW: But it might rain.Me: So we'll get wet?CW: Well you still have to eat supper at the park!Me: We'll just eat at home before we go. CW: That's just weird.Me:Fuck you.

Speaking of iPhones, my 4S died recently and couldn't be fixed. I qualified for a free upgrade to a 6, or - for a mere $50 - I could get a 6S. I kept saying patiently "I want the free one, please." The guy didn't give up until I said "Look - I loved my 4S. The only reason why I'm here today for an upgrade is that it can't be fixed."

What appeared to be the problem? All the components can be bought on amazon so it's very likely it could be fixed after watching a few youtubes. My latest issue was with the charging port, but have also swapped batteries and screens fairly quickly.

He will be 76 in October and the company has been waiting for him to bow out gracefully, but he just couldn't afford to retire.

He's on his fifth wife. Wears $15 shirts but gets them dry-cleaned. Buys two or three coffees a day. His wife is in her late 60 and she 'retired' for about six months and is now back at work.

They moved last year to a five-bedroom house "so we have room for the grandchildren when they visit". A colleague told me they are renting, estimated their rent at $950-$1150/week.

I've rolled my eyes a lot at this guy's behaviour over the years but now it's just ... sad.

Oh wow... that is really sad... almost $60,000 a year in rent! How on earth is he going to afford that now?

Yeah that is incredibly sad. It's always unfortunate when you see someone that has been working their entire life and still doesn't have much savings. A good friend of mine's parents are amazing, but it's crazy that he's still working at 65 after 40+ years of working and they have a house that has about 7 years of payments left, and they are still eating out and buying plenty of toys. My friend told me that they recently bought a friend's pontoon even though they already had one that was only a little bit smaller.

I am not at all frugal about eating out (I know, it's on me), but I will eat a protein bar on the way rather than ice cold nachos or an old hot dog at a sports game. Even in box seats at major NYC games, I still haven't seen too much approaching actual food at games.

My personal weakness is for the poutine at the local minor league baseball stadium. I get it every time.

I had this conversation today... it's not mind blowing like somethings on this thread, but it amused me. Because CW seems very suspicious of our lifestyle and loves to challenge me when we are "spending money" as if to prove we aren't as frugal as we appear (I feel I should note, I never actually bring up money with this particular person, she just really seems very interested in how I choose to spend my money since the time she over heard me talking about savings and retirement with someone who was genuinely interested and of a similar mindset of me)

CW: What are you doing tonight?Me: Going to a baseball game.CW: Oh, [Triple A team one hour away]? That's fun. But I thought you didn't spend money on things like that!Me: No, [college league team in town]. The games are a lot fun and tickets are really cheap, even if DH hadn't gotten tonight's tickets free through work.CW: Well you still have to drive there and pay for gas!Me: We'll ride our bikes. It's only about 5 miles.CW: But it might rain.Me: So we'll get wet?CW: Well you still have to eat supper at the park!Me: We'll just eat at home before we go. CW: That's just weird.

Just replying to add, we did in fact get wet. Didn't change our enjoyment of the game (or the lovely ride home). Also ate at home, because, like others have mentioned, the food is better there. But I did get ice cream at the park. They just have really ice cream.

I am not at all frugal about eating out (I know, it's on me), but I will eat a protein bar on the way rather than ice cold nachos or an old hot dog at a sports game. Even in box seats at major NYC games, I still haven't seen too much approaching actual food at games.

My personal weakness is for the poutine at the local minor league baseball stadium. I get it every time.

If there were poutine I might also be weak. $10 popcorn, not so much. Although I do buy $10 beers, haha.

I had this conversation today... it's not mind blowing like somethings on this thread, but it amused me. Because CW seems very suspicious of our lifestyle and loves to challenge me when we are "spending money" as if to prove we aren't as frugal as we appear (I feel I should note, I never actually bring up money with this particular person, she just really seems very interested in how I choose to spend my money since the time she over heard me talking about savings and retirement with someone who was genuinely interested and of a similar mindset of me)

CW: What are you doing tonight?Me: Going to a baseball game.CW: Oh, [Triple A team one hour away]? That's fun. But I thought you didn't spend money on things like that!Me: No, [college league team in town]. The games are a lot fun and tickets are really cheap, even if DH hadn't gotten tonight's tickets free through work.CW: Well you still have to drive there and pay for gas!Me: We'll ride our bikes. It's only about 5 miles.CW: But it might rain.Me: So we'll get wet?CW: Well you still have to eat supper at the park!Me: We'll just eat at home before we go. CW: That's just weird.

TIL it is apparently weird to eat before attending a sports game.

I am not at all frugal about eating out (I know, it's on me), but I will eat a protein bar on the way rather than ice cold nachos or an old hot dog at a sports game. Even in box seats at major NYC games, I still haven't seen too much approaching actual food at games.

For me, I kinda enjoy the bad junk food at the games. It's part of the experience for me, but I appreciate that others don't see that as a good use of their money.

I had this conversation today... it's not mind blowing like somethings on this thread, but it amused me. Because CW seems very suspicious of our lifestyle and loves to challenge me when we are "spending money" as if to prove we aren't as frugal as we appear (I feel I should note, I never actually bring up money with this particular person, she just really seems very interested in how I choose to spend my money since the time she over heard me talking about savings and retirement with someone who was genuinely interested and of a similar mindset of me)

CW: What are you doing tonight?Me: Going to a baseball game.CW: Oh, [Triple A team one hour away]? That's fun. But I thought you didn't spend money on things like that!Me: No, [college league team in town]. The games are a lot fun and tickets are really cheap, even if DH hadn't gotten tonight's tickets free through work.CW: Well you still have to drive there and pay for gas!Me: We'll ride our bikes. It's only about 5 miles.CW: But it might rain.Me: So we'll get wet?CW: Well you still have to eat supper at the park!Me: We'll just eat at home before we go. CW: That's just weird.

TIL it is apparently weird to eat before attending a sports game.

I am not at all frugal about eating out (I know, it's on me), but I will eat a protein bar on the way rather than ice cold nachos or an old hot dog at a sports game. Even in box seats at major NYC games, I still haven't seen too much approaching actual food at games.

For me, I kinda enjoy the bad junk food at the games. It's part of the experience for me, but I appreciate that others don't see that as a good use of their money.

Yeah, overall I don't find going to games to be a productive use of money so I rarely go to games. I went to one game last year, a minor league game. Tickets were $5 for outfield "seats" (grassy section that you can sit on). I did spend some coin on getting beer (have a ton of good beers there) and some food. I came out ahead a bit, as they were handing out free vouchers for Wendy's Baconator Jr and after I asked for one from a friend who's a vegetarian, everyone asked for one. I don't eat Wendy's, but that was 12 free Baconator Jrs for me, so that was 12 meals I didn't have to cook for.

A dear friend at work needs a second car for the family. From my understanding, the only use case is driving 15KM twice a workday with a one-year infant and their car seat in back. Their family had X thousand to spend on a vehicle's downpayment. One day, CW was talking about how they were going to look at some new <high-end SUV> to lease (spend X thousand upfront, pay sub 100/monthly for the lease, then planning to buy the vehicle after the lease). They wanted to do this so they wouldn't have two car payments simultaneously.

I wanted to speak up. I wanted someone to speak up. Someone. None of us did. Some of us talked about it later but none of use suggested that we should convince the colleague. The next day, an update on the car quest. An older CW rebukes the entire plan. Finally, sanity. The car expert then pipes up "Get the newest used Camry or Accord for X thousand that works best for you in a testdrive. Done." They have an discussion on why, logically, a lease is wrong and a Camry/Accord with no loan is best.

CW (hopefully) will save tens of thousands of dollars over the next few decades now. Horror story of clown-car clown debt averted.