Get off work at 5:50ish. Check my podcast list for updates like usual. HOLY SHIT IT'S SERIAL FINALE DAY!! YES! It's been uploaded! Click to download for my perfectly timed 50 minute drive home. Wait for it to finish. Still Waiting. Shit! It's downloading SLOOOOW. Guess I'm not the only one jumping on it early. It's not even done by the time I get home... Well, time for an extra long morning walk!

Gotta say, I really liked the ending. Wrapped it up the only way it could be wrapped up IMO, and on top of that brought some new things to light we didn't know about and revisited so old things that needed it. I really look forward to seeing where Adnan's case goes and what happens to him and I cannot wait for season 2!

I wonder how we are going to be able to keep track of the case now? Will probably have to rely on bits an pieces from other journos. Will Sarah do one of podcasts if there is news from the innocence project?

Get off work at 5:50ish. Check my podcast list for updates like usual. HOLY SHIT IT'S SERIAL FINALE DAY!! YES! It's been uploaded! Click to download for my perfectly timed 50 minute drive home. Wait for it to finish. Still Waiting. Shit! It's downloading SLOOOOW. Guess I'm not the only one jumping on it early. It's not even done by the time I get home... Well, time for an extra long morning walk!

Gotta say, I really liked the ending. Wrapped it up the only way it could be wrapped up IMO, and on top of that brought some new things to light we didn't know about and revisited so old things that needed it. I really look forward to seeing where Adnan's case goes and what happens to him and I cannot wait for season 2!

I wonder how we are going to be able to keep track of the case now? Will probably have to rely on bits an pieces from other journos. Will Sarah do one of podcasts if there is news from the innocence project?

I imagine the email list for the podcast will include some updates via other articles.

Jay is involved for sure. The final episode just confirms that. How he can be linked with a serial killer, I don't know. My feeling is Adnan did it and got Jay to help bury the body. But as the reporter concludes, beyond Jay's testimony, there's zip physical evidence that Adnan did it.

Jay is involved for sure. The final episode just confirms that. How he can be linked with a serial killer, I don't know. My feeling is Adnan did it and got Jay to help bury the body. But as the reporter concludes, beyond Jay's testimony, there's zip physical evidence that Adnan did it.

The thing that gets me is that everything we know about Adnan doesn't jive with what would be involved in committing this murder and pleading innocence to his own detriment for 15 years. There has barely been a hint that Adnan could or more importantly would do such a thing and I have a very, very hard time believing he's the Dexter-like figure he'd have to be were he to be guilty and lying. It just makes me reiterate again that there is clearly a large piece of the puzzle we are missing here which puts what we do know into focus. It could be that Adnan had more motivations for killing her and keeping quiet than we are aware, it could be that Jay had motive to kill Hae and took the Adnan's loan of the car and phone as the perfect opportunity to frame Adnan, it could be that Jay somehow randomly got pulled into Ronald Moore's actions, or any other number of things both outlandish and reasonable. I think what we have in the end here is first and foremost the inescapable conclusion that there wasn't enough evidence to rightfully convict Adnan in the first place and that there is probably cause for the state to revisit his case and conviction. Beyond that I feel like we have the scales of justice leaning reasonably in multiple directions and that while we may argue and may even agree that one scale is heavier than the others, whatever that extra weight is, is so minute that it should be ignored.

I really wanted to come around to thinking Adnan is innocent, I'm hoping this last episode will sway me. Maybe.As of today I still can't see how Adnan is so neatly tied up in this otherwise. Granted Jay's story has shifted enough to drop less convenient facts in his telling, but it still relied on a massive amount of circumstantial luck to pin it on Adnan that he had no way of foreseeing or manipulating.

I usually download my new podcasts Monday so be a couple of days before I get to the last episodeI have a concern with the second to the last episode though.She interviewed a criminal psychologist where he talks about a perpetrator having partial or full amnesia of a crime and then remembering it. From what I have read, that is kind of bullshit. It very likely is a false memory you created through talking to other people.

Logged

"Give me the storm and tempest of thought and action, rather than the dead calm of ignorance and faith. Banish me from Eden when you will; but first let me eat of the fruit of the tree of knowledge."— Robert G. Ingersoll

My guess though is that Jenn and Jay are involved somehow. Jay probably gave Adnan's cellphone to the person who ended up killing Hae. Maybe it was a serial killer, maybe they know each other somehow and he had some kind of a hold over Jay, but that seems far from the prosaic explanation these sorts of things usually have.

It's not uncommon for, say, a jealous GF to demand her BF kill his mistress. But I don't really understand why Jay would ultimately cop to helping, unless he was afraid they'd figure out he and his GF killed her and was willing to cop to a lesser charge and pin it on Adnan.

My guess though is that Jenn and Jay are involved somehow. Jay probably gave Adnan's cellphone to the person who ended up killing Hae. Maybe it was a serial killer, maybe they know each other somehow and he had some kind of a hold over Jay, but that seems far from the prosaic explanation these sorts of things usually have.

I think that given the oddities in this case, almost anything could be categorized as a long shot until we have evidence. It does seem crazy that all this could be the result of some unknown and random third party, but then again so does Adnan being basically Dexter, or Jay wanting to kill Hae when he barely was even aware of her, and so on. That's why this show was so engaging IMO; despite all the facts, nothing seems to quite fit them right without just seeming wrong somehow.

It's not uncommon for, say, a jealous GF to demand her BF kill his mistress. But I don't really understand why Jay would ultimately cop to helping, unless he was afraid they'd figure out he and his GF killed her and was willing to cop to a lesser charge and pin it on Adnan.

I think it's clear to everyone that Jay was more involved than he claimed. It also seems credible Jay was scared of more than just the police. I am with the other person in the podcast who just can't buy into the fact that Adnan was extremely unlucky in that the day Hae went missing he asked her for a ride, lent his car and cellphone to the person who said he did it, and couldn't come up with an alibi or remember anything about that day. And to top it off, the person who pinned him for it seemed to know enough about the fact that no one would be able to pin him down anywhere to create a problem for his own story.

After this last episode I'm back to believing Jay did the murder under Adnan's guidance and help. Even though I would have had a ton of reasonable doubt on the jury, I just can't shake the doubt I have about Adnan's innocence, as much as I want to believe.

It was a fun ride. And that serial killer thing seems like bullshit based only the fact that Jay knew where the car was.

My guess though is that Jenn and Jay are involved somehow. Jay probably gave Adnan's cellphone to the person who ended up killing Hae. Maybe it was a serial killer, maybe they know each other somehow and he had some kind of a hold over Jay, but that seems far from the prosaic explanation these sorts of things usually have.

The biggest issue with the serial killer theory is that Jay knew where the car was. Otherwise, I could just about see him kowtowing to the cops, making up a story around the facts the cops gave him, and then the cops choosing to believe him because they had extreme tunnel vision.

That being said, Serial can't outright put up a case that it was Jay without opening themselves up to a slander suit (podcasts count as verbal communication, right?) and I feel like this instance as well as several others are SK trying to say "it would be great if there was a bit more light shed on Jay" as much as anything else. There's actually quite a bit about Jay that they actually *didn't* report because it would have begun to have given the series a different focus: I've seen it intimated that Jay has not exactly been a choir boy since this, for instance. Of course, from Adnan's perspective the last thing he wants to do from a jail cell is start throwing out accusations (what if he only thinks it was Jay but it actually turns out to *be* the serial killer, Jay found out about the car through other means, and now he's closed off a potential exonerating witness? What if he accuses Jay rather forcefully and that causes someone to make an exculpatory statement, and then in turn the state argues that said witness was being threatened?).

You hope the truth comes out eventually but unfortunately I just don't think truth works that way.

Logged

Speak what you think now in hard words, and to-morrow speak what to-morrow thinks in hard words again, though it contradict every thing you said to-day.

If Jay was out to Murder Hae, it seems not unreasonable that having Adnan lend him his car and phone would provide him with an opportunity to frame Adnan and would have been the impetus to act that day, and I think the first episode laid out a solid case for why it's not unreasonable that Adnan didn't remember what he did that day.

This has been alleged elsewhere (the subreddit primarily) but this does to me open up a whole new angle on the case. Perhaps the cops showed Jay where the car was rather than the other way around. Given their behavior elsewhere in the case regarding his string of confessions (specifically, the way they sat with him unrecorded for several hours before they began to record said confessions), I already though it likely-to-plausible that they simply handed Jay the list of cell phone calls and allowed him to cook up a story as to what was going on during said calls. This, frankly, isn't even something that would cause a guy who has a record of planting drugs in a witness' car to "encourage" them to testify off-guard: in this scenario I could definitely see where the cop might think "we've got the guy, now let's make everything else we have add up so we can bring a good case to the prosecution".

The thing of it is, I like SK still have doubts as to whether or not Adnan did it. I don't think that the prosecution even came close to making their case, and it it weren't for the railroady bullshit I think it's entirely plausible that the detectives would have worked harder and found other evidence which really did lead a path to Adnan's or somebody else's door. In a really large sense, I feel like this is the real tragedy here: even if the cops happened to luck into catching the right guy, justice was never served in this case.

Logged

Speak what you think now in hard words, and to-morrow speak what to-morrow thinks in hard words again, though it contradict every thing you said to-day.