Rather than relying on arbitrary selection or decision-making based on conjecture which can be tainted by personal bias, decks are selected for the DTBF based on their performance at recent, large, competitive Legacy tournaments. Decks which make up a very large portion of the metagame are considered DTB's. Decks which are less prevalent but appear multiple times are considered DTW's. Archetypes which appear multiple times are considered ATW's.

The data used for selection is based upon Top 8's from the most recent Legacy tournaments with 33 or more players. European, Japanese, and other non-American tournament data is included in this process, because there is a thriving, well-developed Legacy community in places other than America, and their results are relevant.

For the sake of currency and relevance, the DTBF contents will be revised on the first of every month. The data from the most recent ten tournaments will replace the previous data.

What makes a DTB?

A Deck to Beat is a deck which has at least 6.25% placements over the total Top 8 slots at 33+ person tournaments in the last month's tournaments (or the last ten tournaments, whichever is greater).

this is the greatest link i've ever seen....why have I not known about this?

Darksteel

06-19-2013, 01:54 PM

Any tips on playing the mirror match? Or Omnihalls?

apple713

06-19-2013, 03:17 PM

Any tips on playing the mirror match? Or Omnihalls?

@ the mirror, dont cast S&T... all roads are bad for you unless you S&T a sneak attack and win that same turn. Sneak attack is your best card. Board in Through the breach and boseiju take out S&T.

@omni play defense, if you cast S&T be able to win that turn. Always choose griselbrand when they cast S&T so you can draw counterspells because they still need to cast ETI or wish and have it resolve.

otherwise you are favored like 70-30 just because you have so many more counterspells and if they play dream halls you can just laugh at them and say thanks. really its strange because you are able to take advantage of the spells they cast more than they can. Griselbrand is important for the MU tho cause you'll draw more counters than they have spells to resolve.

you can board in through the breach in this MU too. Boseiju is optional cause they dont have many counterspells anyways.

pavlaugh

06-19-2013, 06:53 PM

Any tips on playing the mirror match? Or Omnihalls?

In addition to what Apple said, it's a good idea to play the long game. S D Top is very good to help you not miss land drops. I also board vendillion clique in this matchup.

apple713

06-19-2013, 07:09 PM

In addition to what Apple said, it's a good idea to play the long game. S D Top is very good to help you not miss land drops. I also board vendillion clique in this matchup.

yes, i took out the typical preordain and use a SDT for this reason. I also added 2 vendilion cliques in the board. I think my list is posted a couple pages back.

blindspotxxx

06-19-2013, 08:39 PM

Don't forget to board in your Pyroblasts of course :) I've won so many games with Boseiju in the mirror as well.

The above advice are the key to winning. You should pretty much take your time on those match ups, the good thing is the mirrors and Omni-Maniac match ups aren't stressful as compared to playing other decks with mirrors.

I've pretty much beaten an Omni-tell player with him hitting me with 2 Thoughtseizes and having nothing but lands only to Ponder into a Griselbrand the turn before the casts his Show and Tell :)

Darksteel

06-20-2013, 11:59 AM

Cool, thanks for the tips, guys. I have tried Top before and I do like it, so I guess I'll replace the miser's Preordain I have with one. It does make Misdirection and Force slightly worse, but I think the utility of Top outweighs that, especially if there's a lot of discard at SCG Philly.

Here's my current list. It's Chas Hinkle's from SCG Baltimore, but now with the Top instead of the Preordain

The Simian Spirit Guide has been pretty sweet as a mana source that isn't impeded by Thalia, not to mention a chump blocker in a pinch or a creature needed for the final damage after an Emrakul swing. I was even considering going 3 Petal and 2 Spirit Guide.

Stock list with Probes. Deck is a blast. Won the Invitational in Elmira, NY with the same list. Details later.

2-2 drop at same event lost to elves and deathblade, then 0-3 at jupiter yesterday. The deck has been good to me in the past. Won a few duals, a moat ect. with it but just not doing so hot with it recently. Not sure if I want to play it next weekend or not now.

Griselpuff

06-23-2013, 07:07 PM

Just had one of the most epic games of all time at a local weekly Legacy tournament. I was on Sneak and Show and my opponent was on Death and Taxes.

Game 1 I have Show and Tell, Sneak Attack and Griselbrand and 2UR. I am worried that waiting would draw him into Wastelands, so I play the Show and Tell, revealing sneak attack. He flips a Revoker and that pretty much wraps it up as I'm stuck.

Game 2 I resolve a Blood Moon, which is nuts in this match-up and eventually kill him. He had two ports going locking me down, but eventually I was able to resolve the moon and later a threat to kill him.

Game 3 was insane. I have what is probably the ideal hand for this match up, which includes 3 or 4 lands, among them a Karakas. I get my first two non-basics wasted while getting beaten down by Thalia. I figure he's out of wastelands and bounce the Thalia with Karakas. Boom, wasteland again (#3), but I manage to force the Thalia. He begins with mom beatdown and gets me down to very low. I eventually have a hand that includes Show and Tell, Sneak Attack, Emrakul, Griselbrand and Blood Moon. I resolve the Blood Moon (he had a Karakas and more in play) and then go down to very low health. The following turn, I Show and Tell the Sneak Attack with 2 red left, hoping to win. Instead, he brings in a Flickerwisp, blinking the Moon. At this point, I'm at one life and can't use my two guys to kill him due to his Karakas. I need to chump block to survive. I pass, and he uses Port's ability to lockdown one of my two red sources. I sneak in Emrakul after the end step, and that baits him into attacking with both guys, I bring in Griselbrand and then block and gain 7, then draw 7 with nothing left. He resolves two Stoneforges and then passes to me. I look at my 8 cards, and I have an emrakul and an intuition for Griselbrand and win the game. Whew, yay chumping with Emrakul and Griselbrand!

Griselpuff

06-26-2013, 08:55 PM

After playtesting about 100 games in the past month, I'm happy to say I would consider myself a competent pilot, with a 70% game win rate (playing against admittedly weak opponents in general). I think the main point of contention regarding deckbuilding is with the sb, as the main is set with just a few flex slots (Spell Pierce, Flusterstorm, Misdirection, Preordain). Personally, I'm in favor of playing 2 Preordains along with the Ponders/Brainstorms. This is a combo deck, and wins 0% of the time when it does not assemble the combo. And even when you do have the combo, the cantrips can be used with FOW or to find FOW.

Sideboarding is where there is the most contention. Intuition is usually boarded out, and oftentimes Preordain is too. Here is the issue with that: you can't win even if you draw the best hate or anti-hate in the world and no combo. So, I firmly believe sideboarding should be done at a minimal level (i.e. only changing out a few weaker cards/counterspells), with the caveat that if you expect the game to go super long, then perhaps cutting a fattie, a lotus petal or all of the Preordains/Intuitions (even then, I'm not sure that's right).

So with that in mind, the ideal Sneak & Show sideboard would have

a) a high power level of hate cards (as opposed to flexibility) as only a few cards will be sided in and out. If you're only trading a few cards for a given matchup, they can afford to be very specific powerful cards as you can dedicate more slots to other match-ups
b) shut down your opponent's hate
c) more dedicated slots to your anticipated metagame. I cannot emphasize this one enough. Defense Grid is phenomenal against Delver/Spell Pierce/Daze decks, but lackluster against decks like EsperBlade that only run a few counters. If you expect Delver, then run a bunch of D-Grids. If not, then not playing them at all is totally acceptable.

Here's my current board that I'm still working on.

2-3 Blood Moon - This card has been the MVP in most of my post-sb games and not necessarily for the match-ups you would expect. This card is mediocre to decent against a lot of three and four color decks, like DeathBlade and RUG Delver. The reason is that if you don't drop Moon on the second turn or so, they might already have a clock and/or have used their discard or have free counters. Where Blood Moon has been incredible is vs. Karakas decks (Death and Taxes, Maverick), because it shuts down their primary way of interacting with you (Wasteland, Port, Karakas, Maze of Ith).

1-2 Flusterstorm - Good against other combo decks, not so great as an extra counter vs. control decks. This costs 1 mana and oftentimes on the combo turn, your mana is very tight, especially if you need to sneak stuff into play

1-2 REB - Good against control decks as it answers Jace and D-Sphere, two popular hate cards

2 Grafdigger's Cage - IMO more powerful than Relic and Surgical. I'm never bothering to bring in Relic vs. goyf/DRS decks (it's just not worth the time you can maybe buy, it's better to just assemble your combo with cantrips). If somebody can explain the appeal of Surgical to me, I'd be happy to listen, but it just seems less of an "I win" than Cage.

2 Echoing Truth - one of my least favorite slots, but there needs to be some answer for Humility and Pithing Needle. Right?

0-2 Pyroclasm - I'm not entirely sold on this card. It wipes the board against DeathBlade, but DeathBlade's creatures usually don't directly bother your combo. It also kills Thalia, but those decks have Mother of Runes and can nullify Pyroclasm.

0 or 4 Leyline of Sanctity - good enough to play, if you're expecting a lot of Jund. However, most decks pack less than 8 pieces of discard disruption nowadays, and I can't justify playing this if they only have 5 or so discard spells

2-3 Through the Breach - against decks that have fatties like ours

1-2 Karakas - good to have that extra land in some match-ups. I would even consider bringing this in vs. the delver decks with Stifle/wasteland, just to have another land. Also great vs. opposing fatties.

0-2 Misdirection - depending on how many you have main. Another free counter, and has the added benefit of being able to get you an Ancestral from time to time

This is Christopher Brunner's most recent decklist, where he won a 64 man tourney (he Top 8'ed GP Strasbourg): http://www.mtgdecks.net/decks/view/53243
If I were to pick up this archetype, I'd start with his list.

Happy to hear any and all suggestions/disputes with my analysis!

catmint

06-27-2013, 03:14 AM

Nice work akatsuki.

You nailed it concerning the decks sideboarding (little & high impact).

What I do different:
I usually side out petals/some counterspells before preordain. As you said: finding the combo and due to the hate/anti hate the post board games are sometimes a bit longer.
2 Through the breach are set for me since there is a lot of show mirror going on.
Leyline is also set. Esper has not only 4 discard but also snapcaster mage, vendilion clique,... Also MVP against Jund, BUG variants, ANT, Nic Fit and Belcher
Versus Karakas decks my weapon of choice is Pithing Needle. I cut the blood moons because as you said vs. aggro control they are too situational. Needle does not shut down port/wasteland, but is more versatile versus some other decks. Not sure what is better vs. death & taxes since needle comes down faster. Will test it.

kingtk3

06-27-2013, 06:31 AM

@catmint: I'm pretty sure that pithing needle stops wasteland and rishadan port too, but maybe you meant that a single blood moon stops all these lands togheter whereas you'll need multiple pithing needles to answer all of them?

Griselpuff

06-27-2013, 11:31 AM

Blood Moon is just better vs. decks with Wastelands and Ports (even Goblins!) as it deals with everything. Needle is certainly good too, but it can't really cover every angle at the same time and is a lot less powerful and I want powerful cards.

How do you decide when to side out Petals? I feel like there are a lot of match-ups where you just want more mana (vs. Wasteland decks), so I wouldn't touch them in that situation. Also, from now on, I'll only side out Preordain vs. Chalice decks. So I guess Intuition and Spell Pierce would be the first on the cutting block. I agree with your point about the Leylines now, there's just no EsperBlade or discard heavy Snapcaster BUG in my meta, so I'm leaving them out.

catmint

06-27-2013, 11:56 AM

@catmint: I'm pretty sure that pithing needle stops wasteland and rishadan port too, but maybe you meant that a single blood moon stops all these lands togheter whereas you'll need multiple pithing needles to answer all of them?

Sure - I mean if you baord in needle vs. karakas you set it on karakas. :smile: Even if you have a 2nd one probably you use it for Karakas because they can always get rid of a single needle. But sure if ports are kiling you you can set it on port. But as akatsuki mentioned. Blood moon catches all so might be the better option. Not sure (costs 4 under a thalia).

Intuition is an easy cut for all decks with surgicals so they come out very often obv. This reduces redundancy and I would not consider cutting preordain. Against chalice deck I would probably also prefer to side out misdirection (I run 3 maindeck) before I touch preordain.

Against Canadian I keep petals in for sure:
-2 Intuition
-1 Pierce (paying for counterspells is much harder)
+ 3 Defense Grid

Griselpuff

06-27-2013, 10:15 PM

Can somebody please address the following questions:

1. When do you side out Lotus Petal? To me, it seems like in most match-ups you want the extra mana. I think vs. slow control that doesn't attack your mana, like Miracles, it makes sense.
2. When do you side in Surgical Extraction and how do you use it? It seems like it's in a lot of sideboards and I'm not convinced it's better than Grafdigger's Cage. Surgical is better vs. control decks, but there are stronger cards (REB, Flusterstorm) imo.
3. How do people feel about Stifle and Not of This World? Stops Karakas, Jace, Wasteland (well stifle does at least). The issue is again is that it is anti-hate and you need your combo to win. The other anti-hate cards that are played (Blood Moon) are also powerful and disrupt your opponent, whereas these two cards just stop your opponent from disrupting you.

catmint

06-28-2013, 02:58 AM

Can somebody please address the following questions:

1. When do you side out Lotus Petal? To me, it seems like in most match-ups you want the extra mana. I think vs. slow control that doesn't attack your mana, like Miracles, it makes sense.
2. When do you side in Surgical Extraction and how do you use it? It seems like it's in a lot of sideboards and I'm not convinced it's better than Grafdigger's Cage. Surgical is better vs. control decks, but there are stronger cards (REB, Flusterstorm) imo.
3. How do people feel about Stifle and Not of This World? Stops Karakas, Jace, Wasteland (well stifle does at least). The issue is again is that it is anti-hate and you need your combo to win. The other anti-hate cards that are played (Blood Moon) are also powerful and disrupt your opponent, whereas these two cards just stop your opponent from disrupting you.

1)
Against decks running discard but don't attack mana heavily (no daze/thalia and only light wastelanding) and have a slower clock like shardless, jund or esper, the individual card quality is more important than fast mana. I did not play it recently so I don't have lists/boarding plans (which influences this decision of course) ready but to me the concept of siding out 2-4 lotus petals in such situations is clear.

2)
If I have surgical in the board I would side it in against opposing combo and gy decks obviously and yes it is not strictly better than cage. Cage hates the graveyard better whereas surgical hates opposing combo better. Surgical is a bad card versus control/aggro-control/midrange.

3) I don't like the Stifle plan to stop Karakas because it costs mana. Especially when a thalia is out it will often be unplayable. Preemtive answers like blood moon and needle are better to answer Karakas. Not of this world is not needed because all it counters is swords on griselbrand. Doesn't stop an ability like Karakas.

Griselpuff

06-28-2013, 12:32 PM

Actually, not of this world stops all activated and triggered abilities, as well as spells. It does not stop Wasteland or Liliana.

Also, I'm not sure you want to go long against any of those decks you listed as they all have card advantage engines and we do not. Obviously, they have disruption, but they also run Wasteland (with the exception of Esper), and sometimes it's hard to get RR for Sneak Attack + a fattie. The choice would be between Lotus Petal and a Spell Pierce, and I would have to go with Lotus Petal vs. any decks with Wasteland.

Essentially, it boils down to the fact that if you play counterspells, you will be able to stop their disruption and take the game longer, whereas Lotus Petal leaves you more vulnerable to disruption, but can end it quickly before they outdraw you.

Sunday Funday

07-02-2013, 12:19 PM

I've been going on a tear the last little while with this deck with great success. I've been going undefeated in the swiss and typically not even dropping a single game. My meta can vary drastically from tourney to tourney but my sideboard and maindeck have remained unchanged. Anyways, enough boasting, here is a brief report of what happened this past weekend's 33-man 6 round tourney.

Round 1: Elves (2-0)

G1: I keep a hand of 4 fetchlands, sneak attack, griselbrand, and force of will on the draw. He plays turn 1 Fyndhorn Elves and I'm liking what I see. I play land go do nothing until my fourth turn which I tapped out for a sneak attack. He builds a critical mass of elves and finally decides to natural order which I force. I show him the super twins in my hand and then G2.

G2: I start with leyline white. He mulls to six and keeps a slow hand of turn 2 and turn 3 deathrite. I show and tell a sneak attack by turn 3 with enough mana to sneak in griselbrand, draw 7 etc...he shows me double cabal therapy after the match.

Round 2: Jund Nic Fit Scapeshift (2-0)

G1: I never expect to see something like this in legacy. It runs thragtusk, veteran explorer, wood elves, scapeshift, cabal therapy, burning wish and stuff. I think it's just nic fit with a scapeshift theme going. Anyways he leads off taiga zenith for arbor. I sculpt my hand and dig for combo. He ramps a little more and casts scapeshift, I force. The following turn I show and tell sneak attack, griselbrand come in draw 7 etc.

G2: He turn ones a veteran explorer followed by turn 2 cabal therapy. I spell pierce and he flashes it back saccing explorer (yay I get free lands!) naming force of will? I guess he wants to protect his combo more than he wants to stop mine? I show him a ton of land, sneak attack and griselbrand. He burning wishes and I'm almost certain he'll get some hand disruption. He gets reanimate? I guess he figures once I sneak my griselbrand in play it dies eot and he can steal it? Maybe he's just not too familiar with my deck. I cast sneak attack, get griselbrand in, draw 7, petal, emrakul etc.

Round 3: Affinity (2-0)

G1: He mulls to five but puts everything in play turn 1. I show and tell emrakul turn 2 while he shows in etched champion. Emrakul wins.

G2: Same as G1.

Round 4: UR Burn (2-0)

G1: He double goblin guides me as I'm digging for combo and protection. I finally go off and a counter war ensue which I'm the victor. I sneak in emrakul and he's at 2 and I'm at 6. I have another emrakul in hand but no red source. He top decks land, then goblin guide while I brick. I draw a show and tell and emrakul comes in at a timely 4 life while his board is goblin guide & volcanic island.

G2: He plays land go for the first 3 turns. I figure his hand is full of counters. I play a defense grid later and protect it with two counters and I win. I cast an uncounterable sneak attack next and big dudes finish the job.

Round 5 and 6: ID

I'm number 1 seed. TOP 8 decided to chop the prize since the pool was pretty reasonable and it was Canada day long weekend!

I'm really not sure what to expect with the new legendary rules change in effect soon......

Griselpuff

07-02-2013, 02:38 PM

Sunday can you post your list? (I have also been on a tear, going 9-0 at two consecutive tournaments). I beat Death and Taxes, Dredge, Affinity, Dark Bant, Elves, ANT, OmniHalls, RUG Burn and UW Miracles.

Death and Taxes was by far the closest match-up. Although I also feel like Miracles is in their favor as well.

I'm also interested in what you cut for Leyline... Cabal Therapy is certainly a fantastic card vs. us, but if that is the only card they play (I know some versions play 2-4 Thoughtseize, but some versions just play Therapies), then I don't know that it's worth siding it in.

If I played Leyline, I would bring it vs. EsperBlade, Jund, Storm decks, BUG decks and that's it. In other match-ups, they don't pack enough discard to make it worth bringing it, because every card we bring in slows us down and reduces the consistency of finding our combo.

apple713

07-02-2013, 03:58 PM

Sunday can you post your list? (I have also been on a tear, going 9-0 at two consecutive tournaments). I beat Death and Taxes, Dredge, Affinity, Dark Bant, Elves, ANT, OmniHalls, RUG Burn and UW Miracles.

Death and Taxes was by far the closest match-up. Although I also feel like Miracles is in their favor as well.

I'm also interested in what you cut for Leyline... Cabal Therapy is certainly a fantastic card vs. us, but if that is the only card they play (I know some versions play 2-4 Thoughtseize, but some versions just play Therapies), then I don't know that it's worth siding it in.

If I played Leyline, I would bring it vs. EsperBlade, Jund, Storm decks, BUG decks and that's it. In other match-ups, they don't pack enough discard to make it worth bringing it, because every card we bring in slows us down and reduces the consistency of finding our combo.

will help improve your miracles matchup. its what i play because there are 2 miracles decks in my meta and they noramlly are my only close match up. boseiju and through the breach just annihilate them. not to mention they are great for the mirror and other control matchups. Clique helps a lot too in control match ups cause it puts them on a clock. and if you can get them into the red zone an opposing griselbrand that cant draw cards is very lack luster.

Game 1: Paired with a friend and a shopmate how unlucky! He goes turn 2 Show and Tell and all I have is Emrakul and cantrips. I lay Emrakul and he lays down Dreamhalls. He has the kill with Cunning Wish and a Blue card, unfortunately that blue card is the Impulse he needs to fetch with Firemind's Foresight.

In: Pyroblast, Through the Breach, Out: Show and Tell

Game 2: I keep a hand of Pyroblast, Flusterstorm, Spell Pierce and cantrips. He eventually dig into a Sneak Attack and Griselbrand. He goes for the kill on turn 3 or 4 I think with 2 Pact of Negation Back ups on his Show and Tell. Flusterstorm just wrecks Show and Tell and he can't pay his Pacts.

Round 2: RUG Delver 1-2

Game 1: Double Delver Flip, Stifle on my fetch and a lot of Counter Back up. I was paired again against a friend and a local player at our Legacy Turf, how unfortunate friendly fire.

Game 2: He misplays his turn 2 By Wastelanding my Ancient Tomb when I float it for Intuition and he counters the Intuition with a Daze. This leaves him with 0 board and I play a Turn 3 Show and Tell into Griselbrand with Force back up.

Game 3: He turn 1 Delvers, and has so much counter back up lol My opening hand had a Show and Tell, Griselbrand and an Emrakul. And I proceed to draw 2 more fatties lol Deck Failed me.

Round 3: Junk 2-0

Game 1 and 2: He keeps a non interactive hand except for a Qasali Pridemage. He is also new to Legacy and borrowed his Deck, Sneak Attack cleans him up.

Round 4: BUG Delver 2-1

Game 1: I combo him out and he mulled to 4. I misplayed here Spell Piercing his Force of Will when he had mana lol I think I was high and excited to his mull to 4.

In: Blood Moon, Pyroblast Out: Intuitions and Flusterstorm.

Game 2: Discard wrecks me. Turn 1 Thoughtseize and an early Threat and Counter back up. I was thinking he was on the Hymn plan because Team America Decks usually pack Hymn and no other discard but his Sideboard was different.

In: Leyline of Sanctity, Out: Spell Pierce, a Force of Will and an Emrakul.

Game 3: Turn 0 Leyline, I sandbag my sneak attacks on my hand and I play out a drawn Show and Tell. He counters and I let him. I expected Surgical Extraction and that's what he does. He takes away my Show and Tells and sees 2 Sneak Attacks. Next turn I play Sneak Attack and he has no answer. His hand was full of 2 Snapcaster Mages, Golgari Charm and a Pulse I think.

Round 5: Dredge 1-2

Game 1: I was paired to another Shopmate and friend! In our last encounter we were also in our win and in matches and I managed to outluck him. I say this because my list doesn't have any Graveyard hate. I just plan to race them with speed and some Leyline Protection. Learned an important lesson this round, Echoing Truths are a must board in. I manage to win Game 1 with a Turn 2 Show and Tell Emrakul while he has no Dredgers from his mull to 5 but he has a Therapy but it misses.

In: Leyline of Sanctity, Out: Misdirection, Flusterstorm

Game 2: Game comes to a point where If my Emrakul swings he would be left with a Land and a Stinkweed Imp and that will block and kill my Emrakul. I have no other options and attack. Emrakul dies and he Breakthroughs and has a lot of Graveyard back up to finish me off. Echoing Truth would have won me this game.

Game 3: Had a lackluster defensive opening hand. I Force his Putrid Imp, Pyroblast his Breakthrough but he has double Coliseum. I am happy that he makes top 8 for the 1st time in Legacy and he has the revenge factor on me lol.

Round 6: Slivers? 2-0

Game 1: I combo him out with Show and Tell into Emrakul.

In: Blood Moon, Out: Flusterstorms.

Game 2: He plays a Phyrexian Revoker and my 2 Sneak Attacks in my hand look stupid. He also Phantasmal Images my Griselbrand that I show and tell. Meat hooks rape me.

In: Pyroclasm, Echoing Truth, Out: Misdirections and a Preordain.

Game 3: He plays a Revoker and a Sliver, I Pyroclasm, He plays a Gaddock Teeg! I Echoing Truth and then Sneak in Grisel and Emra.

Props: 2 of my Teammates make it to top 8 SBGpinas (12-post) and GW Maverick. Pizza on Thursday to celebrate the Top 8 wins.

Flops: Having a Bridesmaid finish of Top 16 lol I will change my sideboard Wipe Away singleton into another Echoing Truth.

Griselpuff

07-02-2013, 11:01 PM

Look what I just found: http://www.planetmtg.de/articles/artikel.html?id=6475

Christopher Brunner has had the best finish in the deck's history (Top 4 at GP Strasbourg with 0 byes!!!!) and he actually wrote an incredibly detailed tourney report! Unfortunately, it's in German. Fortunately, we have free translators galore on the internet. Check it out!

Sunday Funday

07-03-2013, 11:32 AM

Sunday can you post your list? (I have also been on a tear, going 9-0 at two consecutive tournaments). I beat Death and Taxes, Dredge, Affinity, Dark Bant, Elves, ANT, OmniHalls, RUG Burn and UW Miracles.

Death and Taxes was by far the closest match-up. Although I also feel like Miracles is in their favor as well.

I'm also interested in what you cut for Leyline... Cabal Therapy is certainly a fantastic card vs. us, but if that is the only card they play (I know some versions play 2-4 Thoughtseize, but some versions just play Therapies), then I don't know that it's worth siding it in.

If I played Leyline, I would bring it vs. EsperBlade, Jund, Storm decks, BUG decks and that's it. In other match-ups, they don't pack enough discard to make it worth bringing it, because every card we bring in slows us down and reduces the consistency of finding our combo.

I'm very wary with bringing in Leylines because it's 4 slots and dead in multiples. Versus cabal therapy decks I bring those in for sure because therapy can disrupt your hand twice. For EsperBlade it depends on what I see from G1...I really don't mind fighting discard with countermagic especially since I pack misdirection anyways. It really boils down to what you see and predict you will see. Sometimes I will even board in defense grids because postboard they'll pack spell pierce etc. Leyline is an auto-inclusion vs. hymn decks.

Griselpuff

07-03-2013, 06:18 PM

Has anybody ever tried Worldspine Wurm? I think it's pretty bad game 1, but game 2 when they side out their Swords, it seems good vs. Liliana and Karakas. Although if you're not losing to those cards, you're probably fine without him.
Another cool card would be Tsabo's Web. Shuts down Port pretty well, but Karakas could probably get one activaton out of it. I like the fact that you draw a card though.

The main sb slot I'm unhappy with is the Echoing Truth slot. It's a purely reactive card that is fairly weak on its own. I guess the only other possible choice would be Terastodon. That card has it's own drawbacks (doesn't stop creatures like Revoker) and you also can't cast him. Has anybody who's played with him care to share?

blindspotxxx

07-09-2013, 10:03 PM

Worldspine Wurm seems cute but how can you really have other slots in your SB? :p

Try it out I've always thought of this idea lol

With m14 coming out do you guys think imposing sovereign will be a problem card for us?

Sunday Funday

07-14-2013, 09:09 PM

Worldspine Wurm seems cute but how can you really have other slots in your SB? :p

Try it out I've always thought of this idea lol

With m14 coming out do you guys think imposing sovereign will be a problem card for us?

Yes, it's most definitely problematic for us. But I doubt people will have this in their board since it's a very narrow hate card almost exclusively against this deck. Sneak show hasn't appeared in recent top 8s and may be off the radar. Omnitell has been THE show and tell deck to beat as of late.

blindspotxxx

07-14-2013, 10:27 PM

It also demolishes blockers for aggro matchups, it's not as a hoser to Sneak Show only. Laying down Tarmogoyf for defense won't happen anymore and DnT or some form of Maverick aggro maybe too much. We'll see in the coming months when m14 is legal

Griselpuff

07-15-2013, 11:42 PM

Amulet of Vigor ftw!

Also, Worldspine Wurm. Sovereign only affects Sneak Attack really. I can't really see the card MD in either Death and Taxes or Maverick as their other utility creatures are better. D&T already has a bunch of weapons vs. us.

Koby

07-16-2013, 01:40 AM

EOT activate Sneak plop down tapped. Untap step smash face.

Why are we discussing bad answers to unplayed cards? No one has yet played Blind Obedience which is better in the context of Legacy. Its not going to crop up. If you see it you can still play around it.

kingtk3

07-16-2013, 08:44 AM

It also demolishes blockers for aggro matchups, it's not as a hoser to Sneak Show only. Laying down Tarmogoyf for defense won't happen anymore and DnT or some form of Maverick aggro maybe too much. We'll see in the coming months when m14 is legal

D&T is not an aggro deck that would capitalize from Imposing Sovereign. I think that only Boros can afford to play that card in legacy, and still I'm not sure if it's better thanthe other creatures that are played.

blindspotxxx

07-16-2013, 10:36 PM

With the rise of RUG Delver what can we do to adjust to this new meta? Faced 3 RUG Delver decks on our previous major and got stomped so bad. Didn't prepare for the match up lol

pavlaugh

07-22-2013, 12:25 PM

With the rise of RUG Delver what can we do to adjust to this new meta? Faced 3 RUG Delver decks on our previous major and got stomped so bad. Didn't prepare for the match up lol

Fetch your lands aggressively when they don't have Stifle mana, and fetch basics if at all possible. Turn 1 Delver is very difficult to beat, but otherwise, the match up is not too bad -- you should get some time to play enough lands to avoid their soft counters so you really only need 1 hard counter (force/misdirection) for a very safe "going off." But again, Turn 1 Delver with even just a little bit of disruption is very difficult to beat.

I've been thinking of cutting 1-2 preordain/SDT for Gitaxian Probe to help with some of these blue Delver/Deathrite decks. Knowing when you can go for it is very important. I often find myself 1 turn behind.

Defense Grid is good from the board.

mulder

07-22-2013, 04:08 PM

How about some maindeck removal? Pyroclasm, for example. Helps against delver, goblins, elves, Humans, ... .

Griselpuff

07-22-2013, 07:34 PM

Pyroclasm only kills Delver so it's not very good. If you want a MD answer, I would suggest Repeal. It's great vs. Delver but mediocre otherwise.

If you're worried about RUG, play 20 lands, play around Stifle and play lots of Defense Grids.

blindspotxxx

07-22-2013, 08:31 PM

Thank you for all the advice. I've been doing that, fetching when they are tapped out and etc, but sometimes you just can't win no matter how you play around. I really hope Defense Grid makes the matchup favorable.

As of the moment this is my sideboard: (Meta is mixed but it used to be a buttload of BG Decks now it has shifted to a lot of RUG Delver and still with BG decks)

It's one of the ways we can kill karakas. What if I make it 2 Wipe Away then 0 Blood Moons? This will make space for 2 more defense grids. You're correct about Blood Moon being mediocre if you get it late.

I might try that out :) Sometimes we can play around Karakas and I've lost due to 0 basics or fetches drawn and can't cantrip into the combo.

apple713

07-23-2013, 01:59 AM

Thank you for all the advice. I've been doing that, fetching when they are tapped out and etc, but sometimes you just can't win no matter how you play around. I really hope Defense Grid makes the matchup favorable.

As of the moment this is my sideboard: (Meta is mixed but it used to be a buttload of BG Decks now it has shifted to a lot of RUG Delver and still with BG decks)

I'd really like to add 2 more Grids but no idea what to cut, any suggestions?

cut the grids... every time i wanna put it in i always regret it and wish i had almost anything else.... it pretty much only draws a counterspell and thats it. if it does stick, and your opponent plays something to hose you... now you cant counter it... womp womp.

-1 d grid +1 TTB, +3 boseiju (just walk all over control decks with these 4 addition) you'll wonder why you ever played d grid to start with. High tide, miracles, and the mirror are a joke. Karakas never gave me problems i couldnt beat through ... just use SA.

Pyroclasm only kills Delver so it's not very good. If you want a MD answer, I would suggest Repeal. It's great vs. Delver but mediocre otherwise.

If you're worried about RUG, play 20 lands, play around Stifle and play lots of Defense Grids.

+1 yeah dgrid helps against delver but its very mediocre in the other matchups. if your playing 3 rug delver matchups tho every tournament it wouldnt be bad to include them. Against a very mixed meta i wouldnt run d grids tho.

blindspotxxx

07-23-2013, 03:15 AM

cut the grids... every time i wanna put it in i always regret it and wish i had almost anything else.... it pretty much only draws a counterspell and thats it. if it does stick, and your opponent plays something to hose you... now you cant counter it... womp womp.

-1 d grid +1 TTB, +3 boseiju (just walk all over control decks with these 4 addition) you'll wonder why you ever played d grid to start with. High tide, miracles, and the mirror are a joke. Karakas never gave me problems i couldnt beat through ... just use SA.

+1 yeah dgrid helps against delver but its very mediocre in the other matchups. if your playing 3 rug delver matchups tho every tournament it wouldnt be bad to include them. Against a very mixed meta i wouldnt run d grids tho.

Boseiju sucks versus Tempo Decks, control is not a problem with this deck :)

Still might want to fit a Karakas in here. It no longer kills Karakas, but does stop Teeg and Thalia.

blindspotxxx

07-23-2013, 01:41 PM

Do you guys board in Defense Grid against Miracles? I figure it's not as good since it makes their Counterbalance uncounterable and if they're lucky to have 3 and 4 costs on top you're dead!

Koby

07-23-2013, 01:50 PM

Against Miracles I board into REBs, bounce spells, and Through the Breach. Defense Grid is a bit weak IMO, as they often can get Counterbalance which just counters without casting spells. They are also likely to bring in Wear/Tear or Disenchant to deal with any potential Moons, Sneaks, or Grids.

Griselpuff

07-23-2013, 03:55 PM

Blood Moons are bad vs. Miracles.

I think D-Grid is really good as they can side up to 19 pieces of instant speed disruption. See Joe's list: http://www.wizards.com/magic/Digital/MagicOnlineTourn.aspx?x=mtg/digital/magiconline/tourn/5712183

If you drop a Grid on turn 1 or 2, they HAVE to counter it or Tear it, otherwise you might just untap and kill them. Obviously, it's usually not a good topdeck if you're going into the late game, but even then, it just stops SO many of their answers that I would be hard pressed to find a better card. And Counterbalance really isn't that scary. If you're dropping Grid on turn 1 on the play, they have no chance of resolving it. If you're on the draw on turn 1, or on the play on turn 2, they could play a Counterbalance, but they would need to blind flip it.

blindspotxxx

07-24-2013, 02:54 AM

Thanks for the responses I guess it's time to remove Blood Moon for now :)

Griselpuff

07-24-2013, 11:24 AM

Chris Brunner who Top 8'ed GP Strasbourg plays 3 Blood Moons... I think they are quite strong vs. Karakas decks. They're good vs. the BG/x decks if you can drop it on turn 1 or 2.

blindspotxxx

07-24-2013, 11:30 AM

Well if Blood Moon is really super good then can it replace Leyline of Sanctity?

mulder

07-24-2013, 03:18 PM

Is Karakas even that much of a problem? Simply drop Griselbrand, draw a buttload of cards and win through a Sneak Attack. Put Emrakul and Griselbrand into play. If they bounce before you declare attackers, just replay Emrakul. And if they bounce after you declared attackers, they take 7 from the Griselbrand and have to sac 6 permanents.

Koby

07-24-2013, 03:23 PM

Is Karakas even that much of a problem? Simply drop Griselbrand, draw a buttload of cards and win through a Sneak Attack. Put Emrakul and Griselbrand into play. If they bounce before you declare attackers, just replay Emrakul. And if they bounce after you declared attackers, they take 7 from the Griselbrand and have to sac 6 permanents.

It does hinge on having Sneak Attack. Another option is Pithing Needle on Karakas, which is cheaper and easier to cast, and more versatile across more matches.

catmint

07-24-2013, 03:29 PM

If the Karakas deck also attacks your life total you might not have enough time to setup sneak + active twice.
Often the Karakas deck also runs waste/port and thalia making it hard to get to the 4r + rr needed to cast and activate sneak twice

alphastryk

07-24-2013, 03:31 PM

Blood Moons are bad vs. Miracles.

I think D-Grid is really good as they can side up to 19 pieces of instant speed disruption. See Joe's list: http://www.wizards.com/magic/Digital/MagicOnlineTourn.aspx?x=mtg/digital/magiconline/tourn/5712183

If you drop a Grid on turn 1 or 2, they HAVE to counter it or Tear it, otherwise you might just untap and kill them. Obviously, it's usually not a good topdeck if you're going into the late game, but even then, it just stops SO many of their answers that I would be hard pressed to find a better card. And Counterbalance really isn't that scary. If you're dropping Grid on turn 1 on the play, they have no chance of resolving it. If you're on the draw on turn 1, or on the play on turn 2, they could play a Counterbalance, but they would need to blind flip it.

The moon is certainly bad against Miracles. Some builds of Miracles like to PLAY Blood Moon even.

Defense grid is stopping counterbalance how exactly? if you turn one it on the play, great - are you killing turn 2? Is that a real scenario (Sol Land, D Grid, a colored source, SnT, Griselbrand)? Seems awful specific... If CB gets two turns, they can have CB or hatebears. Any o-ring effect will be boarded in for sneak attack already. D Grid seems a lot weaker than you propose. Joe's is certainly not the only list - a lot of us play permanant-based hate (Meddling Mage).

blindspotxxx

07-24-2013, 08:52 PM

If the Karakas deck also attacks your life total you might not have enough time to setup sneak + active twice.
Often the Karakas deck also runs waste/port and thalia making it hard to get to the 4r + rr needed to cast and activate sneak twice

This is super true! Sometimes if you show and tell griselbrand and draw and then put down knight of the reliquary you might just die before double red mana.

The moon is certainly bad against Miracles. Some builds of Miracles like to PLAY Blood Moon even.

Defense grid is stopping counterbalance how exactly? if you turn one it on the play, great - are you killing turn 2? Is that a real scenario (Sol Land, D Grid, a colored source, SnT, Griselbrand)? Seems awful specific... If CB gets two turns, they can have CB or hatebears. Any o-ring effect will be boarded in for sneak attack already. D Grid seems a lot weaker than you propose. Joe's is certainly not the only list - a lot of us play permanant-based hate (Meddling Mage).

This is honestly debatable, d. Grid would be super good if they don't draw any counterbalances. D grid would also be good if you have a combo in hand and d. Grid early. Personally, I don't believe that everyday is magical christmas land so i'd rather play safe. I seem to beat Miracles with just boarding in Rebs, bounce and Extra enablers. I used to have a singleton Boseiju but it hasn't come out and I've still won :)

apple713

07-26-2013, 01:26 PM

Well if Blood Moon is really super good then can it replace Leyline of Sanctity?

LLOS is trash to begin with.

this conversation has turned to a metagame call

Dgrid is good vs delver and tempo based decks. Dgrid is not great vs High tide or miracles. Miracles have CB and High tide can use it to combo against you.

Blood moon is good vs delver / bug / d&T / but really only if you draw it early and it sticks. If you draw it late vs delver/bug, they probably have a clock on you and its not really helping you anymore. Its help vs karakas is good but does it justify a whole SB slot against something that can be played around?

Boseiju is great vs miracles / high tide for landing TTB and S&T. It's not great against vs delver / anything with wasteland. You just have to hope you get to untap with it before they get a wasteland

Unfortunatly there is no card that solves all of the issues against control decks. It basically comes down to your meta. I play boseiju cause me meta has multiple high tide / miracle decks. Typically I havent had that bad of a time vs delver / tempo decks just because the deck usually has plenty of mana you just have to be patient. Drawing blood moon late in the game also just sucks. Do you really want to run 4 in the board to increase the chance you'll get it? Wasteland and karakas arn't big enough issues IMO to justify blood moon.

Very rarely will the deck land a S&T or a Sneak attack and not win.

yall should know that when picking cards to maindeck or sideboard you should pick cards that maintain consistency. They should not be situational. I mean this in the sense that LLOS with no way to cast it is worthless IMO... You cant expect to mulligain into it every sideboard game. A better strategy would be to keep a hand with 7 and try to find a copy of what your opponent discards. this deck is incredibly consistent in its mainboard. Blood moon after an opponent lands a creature or two is incredible less effective to the point where its just not worth playing because you now need to focus on finding your combo faster rather than slowing them down. This statement does not apply to cards like REB because you would only sideboard them in against a deck with Blue spells and it would always be good when you side it in.

The reason delver/bug / merfolk /tempo decks are hard for this deck and other combo decks isn't necessarily their control elements but the clock they put you on. Their control elements slow you down but only enough to hopefully push dmg thorugh. The sideboarding decisions here should be to either slow the opponent down, or increase the consistency / speed of your deck. The latter seems like the better choice because it follows in line with your original strategy. Slowing them down might work but it doesnt push you towards your end goal.

Consider this sideboarding decision. Vendillion clique vs tempo decks... It can be cast at EOT so your opponent will have to spend resources to respond to it making them not available on your turn. If it resolves you can now look at their hand and pull a card from it. draw out a spell pierce or force that might have stopped you from comboing. If their hand has a ton of counters you now know that you'll need to stock your hand with backup. The infomation this card provides is huge. Even if they stifle the trigger of ETB you still have a blocker that will klill delver or block a goyf, effectivly buying you another turn or two. This is also a great card to put in against control decks since it puts them on a clock and weakens their hand. Control decks are threatening because of the lack of information we have. If you knew that your miracles opponent didnt have a force of will in hand or a spell pierce on t2 you would cast S&T no questions. But because they have a full grip of 7 and an untapped island we assume the worst even if all they have is a brainstorm and 4 swords to plowshares and another land and CB. after explaining it like this is seems silly that we have not run it in the board. i think i'll add a third to mine.

MeddlingMageGR

07-28-2013, 05:04 AM

After the new Legend Rule, Karakas in sideboard is useless. With Karakas in play, the power of Show and Tell is almost zero. Not only for this card, but for few others with catastrophic "comes into play" abilities, I believe that we must think again about Progenitus.
I also believe that we must add Stifle in mainboard. Counters the delayed triggered Sneak Attack's ability, so the creature remains in game, protects from "comes into play" abilities that targerts Emrakul and Griselbrand, its a land Destruction, its an answer to Liliana, and its bue.

61 cards, no Intuition. Intuition is not as good as I expected. The majority of opponents play blue. So I dont feel ok, to search for... 3 Show and Tell or 3 Sneak Attack, and then I "eat" a counter to the one i have in hand. I lose the game. Intuition must be a SB card, against non-blue decks. Like Goblins, or Maverick. And replaces Misdirection.

Daze vs Spelll Pierce : All the decklists in TC Decks (http://www.thecouncil.es/tcdecks/tipo.php?archetype=Sneak%20Attack&format=Legacy) have 3 to 4 Spell Pierce. These decks dont play Stifle of course. I feel that Daze is stronger that Spell Pierce. I dont have the time ot keep 1 mana open, and if I keep it, its for Stifle.

Tell me your opinions...

blindspotxxx

07-29-2013, 04:36 AM

Interesting list foregoing Intuitions for Daze to be ready for more Tempo.

Sneak and Show
William Jensen
6th Place at StarCityGames.com Legacy Open on 7/28/2013

After the new Legend Rule, Karakas in sideboard is useless. With Karakas in play, the power of Show and Tell is almost zero. Not only for this card, but for few others with catastrophic "comes into play" abilities, I believe that we must think again about Progenitus.
I also believe that we must add Stifle in mainboard. Counters the delayed triggered Sneak Attack's ability, so the creature remains in game, protects from "comes into play" abilities that targerts Emrakul and Griselbrand, its a land Destruction, its an answer to Liliana, and its bue.

61 cards, no Intuition. Intuition is not as good as I expected. The majority of opponents play blue. So I dont feel ok, to search for... 3 Show and Tell or 3 Sneak Attack, and then I "eat" a counter to the one i have in hand. I lose the game. Intuition must be a SB card, against non-blue decks. Like Goblins, or Maverick. And replaces Misdirection.

Daze vs Spelll Pierce : All the decklists in TC Decks (http://www.thecouncil.es/tcdecks/tipo.php?archetype=Sneak%20Attack&format=Legacy) have 3 to 4 Spell Pierce. These decks dont play Stifle of course. I feel that Daze is stronger that Spell Pierce. I dont have the time ot keep 1 mana open, and if I keep it, its for Stifle.

Tell me your opinions...

stifle has no business in this deck for any reason whatsoever. This is not a tempo deck. Wasteland and karakas are not big enough issues to warrent main deck stifle.

I've never liked intuition in this deck so I could see daze's in place of those two. I'd probably just cut intuition from the deck all together cause it doesnt seem necessary. The only other idea i've had regarding intuitions is replacing them with preordains. Preordains dig deep with brainstorm and ponder to follow. 1 preordain and 1 ponder gets 6 cards deep. Thats ALOT to strike out on.

Also if we have to reconsider progenitus, just scrap the deck. Emrakul and griselbrand are the only reasons this deck is what it is. Replace it with something better or pick up a different deck

MeddlingMageGR

07-29-2013, 10:57 AM

stifle has no business in this deck for any reason whatsoever. This is not a tempo deck. Wasteland and karakas are not big enough issues to warrent main deck stifle.

I've never liked intuition in this deck so I could see daze's in place of those two. I'd probably just cut intuition from the deck all together cause it doesnt seem necessary. The only other idea i've had regarding intuitions is replacing them with preordains. Preordains dig deep with brainstorm and ponder to follow. 1 preordain and 1 ponder gets 6 cards deep. Thats ALOT to strike out on.

Also if we have to reconsider progenitus, just scrap the deck. Emrakul and griselbrand are the only reasons this deck is what it is. Replace it with something better or pick up a different deck

I dont follow your temper!! Plz dont make it personal. I can play any deck I like, without asking your permission :) We are here to discuss ideas about this deck, and how to make it better. I have some thoughts. You are not obliged to follow me... but its better to test them out before you criticize them. In our subject now...
I know its not a tempo deck, but - ironical - we try to be faster in the same tempo than your opponent. That's why we play Sol-Lands, and Lotus Petals. The main job of Stifle, is to protect the creatures after Show and Tell. In the environment there are many threats : Stingscourger, Vendilion Clique, Goblin Charbelcher, Oblivion Ring, Karakas, Maze of Ith, all the Storm Decks... and many other I cant remember. Of course dont forget that if your opponent has already Liliana of the Veil, or Jace, the Mind Sculptor YOU CANT PLAY SHOW AND TELL. Its so simple.
The second very very useful mechanic is the synergy with Sneak Attack. The creature REMAINS in game, and this is fascinating. I cant describe you my feelings but Stifle is a "win card" in some situations. More than its role in tempo decks.

Progenitus is a huge untargetable cloak on the board. Dont underestimate him. Even if he needs 2 turns to win, its something very difficult for the opponent to deal with. Besides its blue, and can stick in FoW and MisDirection.

Koby

07-29-2013, 12:05 PM

stuff

Your last couple of posts have made some pretty bad suggestions with regards to individual cards. You should state that these are your own preferences rather than rigorously tested heuristics. Tournament tesults have shown that Leyline, Intuition as useful and Daze as less useful. Yes Huey Jensen topped with Daze in his deck but I contend that Daze doesnt fit where its needed. Its effective only when forcing your own combo through, and not as a defensive counterspell. It loses its potency far too quickly.

Leyline of Sanctity is very effective against Jund decks and basically blanks all of their disruption including Liliana's -2. Onviously if no one is playin Jund or Junk or BUG in your metagame then it doesn't apply.

Every player who I've talked to has said Intuition was very powerful at what it did for the deck and the sole reason for cutting it was in SB games to avoid Surgical Extraction from being live after the tutor.

apple713

07-29-2013, 12:30 PM

I dont follow your temper!! Plz dont make it personal. I can play any deck I like, without asking your permission :) We are here to discuss ideas about this deck, and how to make it better. I have some thoughts. You are not obliged to follow me... but its better to test them out before you criticize them. In our subject now...
I know its not a tempo deck, but - ironical - we try to be faster in the same tempo than your opponent. That's why we play Sol-Lands, and Lotus Petals. The main job of Stifle, is to protect the creatures after Show and Tell. In the environment there are many threats : Stingscourger, Vendilion Clique, Goblin Charbelcher, Oblivion Ring, Karakas, Maze of Ith, all the Storm Decks... and many other I cant remember. Of course dont forget that if your opponent has already Liliana of the Veil, or Jace, the Mind Sculptor YOU CANT PLAY SHOW AND TELL. Its so simple.
The second very very useful mechanic is the synergy with Sneak Attack. The creature REMAINS in game, and this is fascinating. I cant describe you my feelings but Stifle is a "win card" in some situations. More than its role in tempo decks.

Progenitus is a huge untargetable cloak on the board. Dont underestimate him. Even if he needs 2 turns to win, its something very difficult for the opponent to deal with. Besides its blue, and can stick in FoW and MisDirection.

as for untargetable, griselbrand is really the only "targetable" creature and unless they sudden spoiling him you are drawing 7 cards. Even if they swords in resp to your first draw 7 you can draw 7 in resp.

Im not trying to attack you but I think in all the games I've played I've only lost 1 game because my creature didnt stay in play after sneak attack.

You're right about show and tell, it gets hozed by a lot of cards. 2 planeswalkers, which cant be put into play with show and tell, so hopefully you have backup for them cause they'll have to cast them. If you have a griselbrand in play you should have backup for those planeswalkers. Goblins isnt in my meta so i cant speak to it. I'm not sure how maze of ith is a threat at all and oring only really sucks if they get your emrakul with it.

Maybe its just my experiences but I dont run into that many issues when I play the deck.

Your last couple of posts have made some pretty bad suggestions with regards to individual cards. You should state that these are your own preferences rather than rigorously tested heuristics. Tournament tesults have shown that Leyline, Intuition as useful and Daze as less useful. Yes Huey Jensen topped with Daze in his deck but I contend that Daze doesnt fit where its needed. Its effective only when forcing your own combo through, and not as a defensive counterspell. It loses its potency far too quickly.

Leyline of Sanctity is very effective against Jund decks and basically blanks all of their disruption including Liliana's -2. Onviously if no one is playin Jund or Junk or BUG in your metagame then it doesn't apply.

Every player who I've talked to has said Intuition was very powerful at what it did for the deck and the sole reason for cutting it was in SB games to avoid Surgical Extraction from being live after the tutor.

I did state that "I never liked intuition", the statement would be an opinion and i never said it was bad or the wrong choice for the deck. I instead said that i didnt like it and considered daze. Sideboard is going to depend on your metagame, and my metagame determines my sideboard. I am pretty sure one of my recent posts stated that along with my suggestions for different metagames. Just because people do well with a card just sitting in their sideboard it doesnt mean that its the best card for that slot either. I must have played 50- matches with Blood moon in my board and after not boarding it in i just took it out...

Lets consider my statement about daze and your statement together. If we subsitute intuition for daze I have an increased chance of pushing my combo through. If im trying to protect my combo after I just cast it(sneak attack or show and tell), chances are i'm not going to have 3 mana to cast an intution to get what i need to protect my creatures on the field. However if I draw 7 with griselbrand I may get a daze and IM almsot certain to have an island in play to cast it.

The deck is consistent enough as to when i cut intuition from my main i dont miss it or even notice it's gone. I've never been like man i really wish i had an intuition right now.

dcosiem

07-29-2013, 04:41 PM

I think Intution is terrible for this deck too. It just cost way to much to do something so little, which can be done easily through 1 cmc can-trippers. In my list, i cut them for Gitaxin-Probe because it's useful to get perfect information, when you are going for the combo, if your opponent has counterspells or tricks for your deck. If your opponent has a counterspell which you can counter before you play Show and tell or Sneak Attack, you basically win. If your opponents has more than 2 counters, you can wait and do it later when your position to answer his additional counterspells, or whatever threat it is that stops you from combo-ing off successfully.

I also like the idea of having Daze because it is an additionally counterspell that is FREE to cast, and it can counter anything. The only downside-it is useful when your opponent taps out.

Playing this deck should not be played defensively in my opinion.

For the matter of Leyline of Sanctity; that is an required card in this 75 list because a lot of tier 1 decks play Discard spells. F. E. BUG, DEATHBLADE, JUND, ANT. Misdirection will not answer all of them. This is the reason why I don't even play Misdirection in the main anymore.

Before Stifle I'd have a look at Pithing Needle if Karakas is the problem. Leyline has been a love/hate relationship for me. Against the decks where it's effective, it shuts them off (their relevant disruption) completely and gains you valuable turns to find your winning hand. I only mulligan into it if my hand already sucks. If I have a good hand lacking Leyline I say fuck it and try to force my way through. I'm not sure about Blood Moons though. Against BGx decks (jund and shardless) I'm already boarding in 4 leylines and possibly a bounce spell just in case so there's no space for Blood Moons. When I want to beat Karakas I board in Needle and bounce so Blood Moon becomes overkill. Only against Death&Taxes Blood Moon takes care of multiple problems but sometimes I think I can let that one go as a bad matchup and use those slots for something else. So far my board is:

Before Stifle I'd have a look at Pithing Needle if Karakas is the problem. Leyline has been a love/hate relationship for me. Against the decks where it's effective, it shuts them off (their relevant disruption) completely and gains you valuable turns to find your winning hand. I only mulligan into it if my hand already sucks. If I have a good hand lacking Leyline I say fuck it and try to force my way through. I'm not sure about Blood Moons though. Against BGx decks (jund and shardless) I'm already boarding in 4 leylines and possibly a bounce spell just in case so there's no space for Blood Moons. When I want to beat Karakas I board in Needle and bounce so Blood Moon becomes overkill. Only against Death&Taxes Blood Moon takes care of multiple problems but sometimes I think I can let that one go as a bad matchup and use those slots for something else. So far my board is:

I don't think you need Blood Moon because it's more redundancy when you have Pithing Needle doing the same effect: stop Karakas.

I personally would not put REB because mana is so tight sometimes especially if you're playing 18 lands like myself. I can't afford to combo off with an extra mana open for a Spell Pierce or REB. To understand this context better, I'm usually combo-ing off from turn 1-3. I like the Daze approach because you still have protection when you can combo off as soon as turn 2-3. If you play 19 lands with Spell Pierce and Misdirection in the main, then playing defensive combo might be better. Reb can be good in this version of the deck. I personally play Defense Grid because most control list are running over 10 counterspells in their list. It will be hard to deal with each and every counter. This is why Defense Grid makes sense because you don't have to deal with a counter-war especially if you're able to combo out in early turns and when you have less counterspells then them.

blindspotxxx

07-30-2013, 09:07 PM

I don't think you need Blood Moon because it's more redundancy when you have Pithing Needle doing the same effect: stop Karakas.

I personally would not put REB because mana is so tight sometimes especially if you're playing 18 lands like myself. I can't afford to combo off with an extra mana open for a Spell Pierce or REB. To understand this context better, I'm usually combo-ing off from turn 1-3. I like the Daze approach because you still have protection when you can combo off as soon as turn 2-3. If you play 19 lands with Spell Pierce and Misdirection in the main, then playing defensive combo might be better. Reb can be good in this version of the deck. I personally play Defense Grid because most control list are running over 10 counterspells in their list. It will be hard to deal with each and every counter. This is why Defense Grid makes sense because you don't have to deal with a counter-war especially if you're able to combo out in early turns and when you have less counterspells then them.

Blood Moon is super Good against White Decks with Karakas, Wasteland and well Port for DNT. It also wins you the game if it resolves early on the BG decks. Pithing Can't do that. You're right about Stifle though, that extra mana is sometimes a pain to do especially when facing Thalia and Wasteland and well just not drawing that land.

Koby

07-31-2013, 01:20 AM

Blood Moon is super Good against White Decks with Karakas, Wasteland and well Port for DNT. It also wins you the game if it resolves early on the BG decks. Pithing Can't do that. You're right about Stifle though, that extra mana is sometimes a pain to do especially when facing Thalia and Wasteland and well just not drawing that land.

Pithing Needle on:
Wasteland
Karakas
Port
Mangara
Aether Vial

Seems really good to me...

blindspotxxx

07-31-2013, 12:43 PM

Pithing Needle on:
Wasteland
Karakas
Port
Mangara
Aether Vial

Seems really good to me...

Yeah but you only take care of one problem not all land problems as compared to blood moon :)

apple713

07-31-2013, 01:16 PM

Yeah but you only take care of one problem not all land problems as compared to blood moon :)

correct

Pithing needle reads much better than it plays in my experience

Koby

07-31-2013, 02:01 PM

Yeah but you only take care of one problem not all land problems as compared to blood moon :)

This is true, but it's cheaper to play under Wasteland/Port and still kills Karakas. It has its limitations, and so does Blood Moon; and neither deal with Thalia very well.

dcosiem

07-31-2013, 10:29 PM

If you have problems with death and taxes, then play pyroclasm. Say good bye to the board death and taxes. Have a pithing needle out and pray you boarded in ecohing truth against o ring...

Does anyone know the correct way to play against bug? It is the only deck that I have trouble beating. Really, it is the only deck that has a better chance in beating sneak attack. I guess the balance of counterspells and discard is just effective. Although from my point of view bug looks like it is boring to play...

catmint

08-01-2013, 03:32 AM

When you talk about BUG do you mean BUG Delver or Shardles BUG? Two very different decks. Btw.: Do you really think Sneak Attack has positive matchups against everything except BUG?

Higgs

08-01-2013, 05:23 AM

Personally I don't think it has positive matchups across the board but I think it has Vintage-like unbeatable god hands which can steal games from even the worst matchups. But surely variance can go both ways.

dcosiem

08-01-2013, 03:34 PM

Well, I'm relatively new to this deck, but I can say I've played a lot of games with the deck on-line and in person. I've top 4 at a 32 man tournament as well. I went from playing Death and Taxes to this and I'm very pleased with how this deck's schematic for winning is simple and efficient.

What I mean by Bug is probably Shardless Agent and not Delver.

I just lost a match to mono u Dream Halls. Pact of Negation is such a good card in that deck against blue decks. I don't think I can play defense grid anymore because of this. Does anyone know how to deal with mono u Dream Halls?

I faced a match with Death and Taxes recently, and got ported out of the game. It was really embarrassing. I guess Blood Moon might be more efficient at this point shutting down Karakas, Port and Wasteland. I'm going to miss Pithing Needle in my side because it stops Plainswalkers, which sometimes I need, but not all the time.

apple713

08-01-2013, 05:15 PM

Well, I'm relatively new to this deck, but I can say I've played a lot of games with the deck on-line and in person. I've top 4 at a 32 man tournament as well. I went from playing Death and Taxes to this and I'm very pleased with how this deck's schematic for winning is simple and efficient.

What I mean by Bug is probably Shardless Agent and not Delver.

I just lost a match to mono u Dream Halls. Pact of Negation is such a good card in that deck against blue decks. I don't think I can play defense grid anymore because of this. Does anyone know how to deal with mono u Dream Halls?

I faced a match with Death and Taxes recently, and got ported out of the game. It was really embarrassing. I guess Blood Moon might be more efficient at this point shutting down Karakas, Port and Wasteland. I'm going to miss Pithing Needle in my side because it stops Plainswalkers, which sometimes I need, but not all the time.

is the deck just playing dream halls? or is it omnitell? Omnitell should be fairly simple if you play smart and dig for griselbrand. You naturally have more counterspells than them. your spell pierces hurt a lot cause they run the same mana base almost. If they show and tell and your untapped, i'll let it resolve if i have a griselbrand. Dont cast show and tell yourself unless you have a griselbrand to draw protection. Oh yeah your like 2x faster then them. If you have a force or spell pierce and can combo off do it, all they have is force. Pact doesnt help for defense unless they can pay for it. So really your playing against a deck with 4x force of will.... should be very simple.

If its just dream halls and somethig else, I got no idea. Dream halls is muc slower tho so shouldnt be an issue.

blindspotxxx

08-01-2013, 11:23 PM

Well, I'm relatively new to this deck, but I can say I've played a lot of games with the deck on-line and in person. I've top 4 at a 32 man tournament as well. I went from playing Death and Taxes to this and I'm very pleased with how this deck's schematic for winning is simple and efficient.

What I mean by Bug is probably Shardless Agent and not Delver.

I just lost a match to mono u Dream Halls. Pact of Negation is such a good card in that deck against blue decks. I don't think I can play defense grid anymore because of this. Does anyone know how to deal with mono u Dream Halls?

I faced a match with Death and Taxes recently, and got ported out of the game. It was really embarrassing. I guess Blood Moon might be more efficient at this point shutting down Karakas, Port and Wasteland. I'm going to miss Pithing Needle in my side because it stops Plainswalkers, which sometimes I need, but not all the time.

Whatever apple said is correct! Flusterstorm is backbreaking for the matchup as it basically wins you the counterwar and they lose to their pacts. Usually you don't want to Show and Tell Griselbrand into play unless you have some open mana for a big counter war that will decide the game. Postboard well I typically board out my Show and Tells and use 2 Pyroblasts and 2 Through the Breach. Most Sneak Show players should know that End of Turn (opponents turn) activate Sneak Attack or Through the Breach your creature will live through your turn.

dcosiem

08-02-2013, 08:28 AM

Yea, I took out my 4 defense grid and 4 Leyline to add in a large counterspell tool box consisting of:

I don't run Misdirect and Spell Pierce in the main because I play 18 lands. I don't need an extra land if i'm trying to force my combo out as quickly as possible. My average turn that I combo is turn 2.

@Apple: The deck is mono blue dream halls omniscience. I did as exactly as you said, but sometimes, I can't cut into my life more than twice with Griselbrand after I already have countered one of his counters and I needed another counter-spell.

Through the Breach is too costly for me to play in my deck; therefore, I don't play it. I figured against this Omnisicience deck, I'll play heavy counters to deal with Enter the Infinite.

So after I said Stifle was not needed, sadly I played some games where I needed it...... It was against a fair deck, who sided in Angel of Despair...vs. my Emrakul....

apple713

08-02-2013, 09:40 AM

Yea, I took out my 4 defense grid and 4 Leyline to add in a large counterspell tool box consisting of:

I don't run Misdirect and Spell Pierce in the main because I play 18 lands. I don't need an extra land if i'm trying to force my combo out as quickly as possible. My average turn that I combo is turn 2.

@Apple: The deck is mono blue dream halls omniscience. I did as exactly as you said, but sometimes, I can't cut into my life more than twice with Griselbrand after I already have countered one of his counters and I needed another counter-spell.

Through the Breach is too costly for me to play in my deck; therefore, I don't play it. I figured against this Omnisicience deck, I'll play heavy counters to deal with Enter the Infinite.

So after I said Stifle was not needed, sadly I played some games where I needed it...... It was against a fair deck, who sided in Angel of Despair...vs. my Emrakul....

True, sometimes drawing 7 or 14 cards isnt enough... seems like it should be but odd dont always play out in your favor. In fact, I've drawn 3 times off a griselbrand and never hit an emrakul, mid game mind you... so i've alrady seen my initial 7 + several turn draws and im sure ponders and brainstorms galore.

The deck is amazing but still fails sometimes. It's a different kind of fail that other combo decks. We are really close to the victory cause we already have a griselbrand in play. but with other combo decks, you just dont get your combo off. Its an awkward feeling kinda like high tide, after spiraling out of control and drawing a ton it just flops.

Keep trucking, it wont happen often enough to be a major issue IMO

dcosiem

08-02-2013, 04:21 PM

You're pretty much correct about the statements with the tier 1 combo decks in the format. I haven't played high tide yet, but I've played Ant and TES enough to understand these deck's issues are definitely whether or not having the combo started. With as much hate against combo in legacy, deck's like Tes and Ant are somewhat hard to play. For example, if you're playing against brown Mud or white Smokestack, they can drop a trinisphere against u, and you have no way to deal with it. Move on to game 2! This is why Sneak Attack is, in my opinion, the preferred combo deck to play because a turn 1 Chalice and trinisphere doesn't affect you. You're combo starts with 3 cmc. LOL. This deck just breaths fire on my opponent in such absolute god speedy fashion. I love it.

@blindspot I would personally play what you've selected in your sideboard. The other 2 seems a lot worse. If you want to play Leyline, playing 3 is not a good idea. Statistically, 4 is better than 3 because the probability of a leyline of becoming a relevant draw is. I rather not to do the math here. I will personally try to fight the counter wars so I wouldn't play defense Grid. Otherwise, everything looks good.

Griselpuff

08-03-2013, 01:52 PM

Does anybody think spell pierce is bad? You want to wait extra turns for the protection, but then you might not have the mana. It's good vs discard etc but just not good vs tempo decks with counters bc you are tight on mana and time

MeddlingMageGR

08-03-2013, 02:30 PM

Does anybody think spell pierce is bad? You want to wait extra turns for the protection, but then you might not have the mana. It's good vs discard etc but just not good vs tempo decks with counters bc you are tight on mana and time

I believe that Spell Pierce is a bad choice. Daze is much better.

dcosiem

08-03-2013, 05:59 PM

I have to agree; but, here's the scenario when daze is irrelevant: against mid-range decks. You want to have spell pierces against their heavy discards. I define these decks as Esper, Deathblade, Jund, and Bug. Typically, I want to side in Leyline against these decks all day and every day, but fortune doesn't reward gamblers. Therefore, I'm still up in the air whether or not Defense Grid/ Leyline are good enough sideboard cards for this deck. Simply, we can reserve extra counterspell back up to play a little control as well. Someone remind me why we still need echoing truth/wipe away in our side?

Griselpuff

08-03-2013, 09:58 PM

O-Ring, D-Sphere, Humility, E-Bridge, other cards we just scoop to.

blindspotxxx

08-03-2013, 10:07 PM

@blindspot I would personally play what you've selected in your sideboard. The other 2 seems a lot worse. If you want to play Leyline, playing 3 is not a good idea. Statistically, 4 is better than 3 because the probability of a leyline of becoming a relevant draw is. I rather not to do the math here. I will personally try to fight the counter wars so I wouldn't play defense Grid. Otherwise, everything looks good.

Defense Grid is the only solid thing I can board in against RUG and Patriot. My dilemma is without Blood Moon I feel that the DNT match up would be super bad. I need some Karakas, Wasteland and Rishadan Port hate. I really want to fit in 2 Blood Moons honestly, I have no guts to run a 0 Pyroclasm and 0 Bounce sideboard as well!

@Spell Pierce Topic

Not sure if it's really weak but I have been seeing a lot of lists that use 3-4 Spell Pierce when they don't have 2 Flusterstorms main. Is 3 Daze better than 2 Spell Pierce? Daze becomes weak fast against Control Decks though and DRS.

dcosiem

08-04-2013, 12:43 AM

Defense Grid is the only solid thing I can board in against RUG and Patriot. My dilemma is without Blood Moon I feel that the DNT match up would be super bad. I need some Karakas, Wasteland and Rishadan Port hate. I really want to fit in 2 Blood Moons honestly, I have no guts to run a 0 Pyroclasm and 0 Bounce sideboard as well!

@Spell Pierce Topic

Not sure if it's really weak but I have been seeing a lot of lists that use 3-4 Spell Pierce when they don't have 2 Flusterstorms main. Is 3 Daze better than 2 Spell Pierce? Daze becomes weak fast against Control Decks though and DRS.

Defense Grid is nice, but resolving a flusterstorm as a back up counter to show and tell is the same thing. Game 1 against Rug is usually an auto win. I personally haven't played against Patriot much. I wouldn't expect it being formidable because it's the same deck as rug without the Goyfs and Mongoose.

Spell Pierce is good against countering simple 1 cmc spells like Ponder, Preordain, Brainstorm, Thoughtseize, Inquisition, and Jace when your opponent taps out for mana. I believe playing Daze is a matter of knowing one's preference or play-style. It comes down to this: Are you willing to wait out against your opponent when you have enough counter spells to win the counter war or are you willing to combo out immediately when you have it and not care if they have a counter or not? Daze makes sense in the second situation but not in the first. Spell pierce makes better sense in the first situation than the second. Personally, I play to the second scenario whereas I don't care what my opponent is doing or playing. I'm going to try to get my combo off and win. To make this play work, I play Daze and Gitaxian Probe to ensure that when I combo early, I can peek to see whether or not my opponent has something for me. Daze will be hard to counter if i combo on turn 2 or 3.

Game 1: I get nothing going except a Misdirection to his Hymn to Tourach. He has no other disruption but I don't draw any Enablers with 2 Emrakuls and a Griselbrand Mocking me. What a way to start the tournament. I also have Pondered Twice already lol

Game 2: I get a 2nd Turn Show and Tell into Emrakul and he has no Liliana of the Veil

Game 3: He mulls to 4 and I combo off turn 2. Better Lucky than Good!!!

Round 2: Dark Maverick

Game 1: I get a turn 2 Kill with Island, Petal, Petal, City of Traitors into Sneak Attack Griselbrand and draw 7 Petal into Emrakul and swing with both with him only having a Bayou and a Deathrite Shaman and misses his 2nd turn land drop.

Game 2: He has a funky sideboard of the Guildmage that can Tap a creature for W. He lays down Thalia, Birds, Deathrite, Guildmage, Sylvan Library and Lands. I somehow get to Show and Tell Sneak Attack into play and Sneak in Griselbrand draw 7 for a Petal, play Petal through Thalia and Sneak in my Emrakul in hand. He gets board wiped but he has DRS and Guildmage in play for the next turn. He has blocked Emrakul so he is still alive. Next turn I draw Pyroclasm although I already have the Echoing Truth to bounce his Guildmage and Sneak in for the Win.

Round 3: U/R Delver

Game 1: I get a turn 3 Show and Tell into Griselbrand with a Counter Back up and that's Game. I never drew 7 cards just Lifelinked him to death.

Game 2: I get a 3rd turn Defense Grid which surprisingly resolves and I Sneak in a few turns later.

Round 4: Boros Burn

Game 1: Turn 2 Show and Tell Emrakul at 16 Life :)

Game 2: I open with 2 Leyline of Sanctity (BETTER LUCKY THAN GOOD!) Turn 2 Show and Tell Emrakul and I Force of Will his newly drawn Ensnaring Bridge.

Round 5: Death and Taxes (mrjumbo03)

Game 1: I get locked out by Mother, Thalia, Karakas then he Vials in Mangara and I scoop.

Game 2: I get a Turn 4 Through the Breach with 2 Sol Lands I think and Eliminate his board. We play draw go for a long time but I already have Sneak Attack in play. I countered his first 2 Attempts at a Creature while cantripping and he lands one finally because I've run out of counters! After 3 Ponders and 2 Brainstorms I finally top deck Emrakul again when facing lethal. Bazaar of Moxen? lol

Game 3: I Show and Tell Griselbrand and he lays down a Batterskull. He has Thalia I think and I thought he didn't have Karakas but he plays it on his Turn and Bounces Griselbrand. I draw 6 of course :) I have dealt myself like 9 damage already (Ancient Tomb and Griselbrand) and he does 7. I Through the Breach Emrakul next turn but he has 7 Permanents (Stupid Germ Token!) and the last Phyrexian Revoker kills me.

Round 6: UW Fish

Game 1: Turn 2 Show and Tell Emrakul with Force of Will Back up. He can't race that.

Game 2: No Vial turn 1 this time and he doesn't really get a clock except 2 Mutavaults. I have no combo until like turn 7? I play Defense Grid with a lot of open mana and he burns his Force of Will. When he plays Lord and Silvergill I Pyroclasm them out. I play Sneak Attack and we both play Draw Go for a while with me nearly facing lethal. I finally draw an Emrakul and swing and he scoops despite being alive at 4 Life and no permanents.

Round 7: UWR Patriot (Draw)

ID into Top 8

Quarterfinals: Grixis Show and Know (Super Epic Matches!)

Game 1: I was paired up with a great player with the deck so I know things will be rough. I have also tweaked my deck to be weaker to opposing combo to have better chances to beat RUG and Patriot which has been the new epidemic in our metagame (no more 2 main deck Flusterstorms and added 2 Daze). We both spend the first few turns sculpting our hands for the big counter war and who can combo off successfully. This is the 2nd time we would be facing each other and both of us have great understanding of the matchup. I think on our turn 7? I draw 1st blood by casting Show and Tell. My game plan was to Show and Tell my Sneak Attack and wipe his board but if I lose the counterwar then I still have a Sneak Attack left in my hand. Somehow like a bait but if it resolves I win. He Forces and I Force back and to my surprise he has no Counters anymore so I jam Sneak Attack and attack with Emmy.

Game 2: Another round of hand sculpting from both sides but he has Thoughtseize to make my life harder. I really go defensive this time and chose to not cast my singleton Intuition as it can be a great tool box when something happens. I did not go Intuition into an Early Sneak Attack because if I lose the counter war then I wouldn't be able to draw anymore enablers to kill him. (Boarded out all of my Show and Tells so I have 6 cards to kill him 2 Through the Breach and 4 Sneak Attack). He Thoughseizes away my Intuition but sees a hand of Force of Will protection some Pyroblasts, Spell Pierce and Griselbrand. It would be risky for him to Show and Tell for the kill if he didn't have Omniscience and Emrakul as I can just draw a buttload of cards to counter his Burning Wishes. I finally go for it when I draw Sneak Attack because I figured he has less counter magic because his disruption is Thoughtseize and Daze. We go into a Counter War and I lose because he had a Flusterstorms and a Force of Will. It's his turn to combo and he proceeds to Show and Tell Omniscience (I Griselbrand) and he puts down both Emrakul and Griselbrand lol GG

Game 3: I go on the play yey. We both spend our 1st few turns on cantrips with him on the edge with more consistent land drops and me with an Island, Ancient Tomb and double Petal. We don't do anything until turn 5. And since I missed some land drops I had to discard my Misdirection (2nd one in my hand). I finally draw 2 Fetchlands straight and he Thoughtseizes me. He sees a hand of Force of Will, Misdirection, Intuition, Spell Pierce, Through the Breach and Double Pyroblast. He takes the Intuition of course :) He plays a Show and Tell when he had 8 cards and I Pyroblast it. A few turns later he goes for it with 8 cards in hand to my 5?

Him: Thoughtseize!

Me: Misdirection hardcasted!

Him: Force of Will!

Me: Pyroblast!

Him: Flusterstorm! (I think)

I knew he would win the Counter War as he had more cards in hand and had casted more Cantrips than me. Thoughtseize resolves and I am left with Force of Will and Through the Breach. At this point I was ready to shake his hand. He casts Show and Tell putting Emrakul into play. OMG one more chance no Omniscience!!! I proceed to top deck MVP Griselbrand it felt like winning the jackpot. I had like 10 total mana in play with 2 Lotus Petal. Pay 5 for Through the Breach Griselbrand and draw 7 (Down to 7 life). There's a Sneak Attack, 2 Brainstorms, Preordain, Force of Will, Land and another card I forgot. I cast Sneak Attack and it resolves, I am left with 2 Lotus Petals for mana but no Emrakul to end the game. I Preordain into a Land and a Force of Will and draw the next card.. It's a Land! I use my last mana for a Brainstorm gambling with a Petal and Emrakul and I get Lotus Petal.

I need a fresh hand and I now know I can't kill him so I swing with Griselbrand to his Emrakul for life link (14 life). I draw another 7 cards and still no Emrakul but another Griselbrand shows up (Down to 7 Life again). I sigh with both frustration and relief as I have drawn 14 cards and Brainstormed and Preordained already and not finding a single Emrakul, relief because I have another Griselbrand and will probably survive the next swing. He plays a Burning Wish which I Force and swings with Emrakul annihilating all of my lands the only permanent left is Sneak Attack and a Lotus Petal. I Sneak in Griselbrand to block and go back to 14 Life! My last turn and my last top deck........

BOOM! Emrakul finally shows up!!! I play a Scalding Tarn for my last Red Source a lone mountain and I Sneak in Emrakul and swing with him on 13 life after 2 Thoughtseizes!!!! Epic Match is epic! We both shake each others hand with respect after a much intense game.

Semifinals: UWR Patriot

Game 1: Turn 3 Show and Tell with Force of Will and Misdirection Back up. He also had 2 Force of Wills but I win the counter war to put Down Emrakul and win.

Game 2: He goes turn 2 Stoneforge into Sword of Feast and Famine? I Pyroclasm with City of Traitors and my mountain this was a misplay I think as I was playing around Daze but City of Traitors died later on and I couldn't ramp into Daze Protection and Spell Pierce protection for my combo I had a lot of Lands in hand that's why I risked losing the City. My Show and Tell gets Dazed, Show and Tell gets Force'd and I die to 3 Swings of Geist of St. Traft.

Game 3: He goes turn 2 Meddling Mage, I of course burn all my fetches to avoid Stifle. For a lot of turns he just has Meddling Mage (Show and Tell) which gets me down to around 10. I decide to Pyroclasm it and he Forces. At this point I already have a lot of lands like 6 mana? I lay down Defense Grid and he burns his other Force of Will. I have only 2 Griselbrands and no enablers but I have a 2nd Pyroclasm. He still has no clock and I cast the 2nd Pyroclasm to kill the lone threat he had. I was down to 7 at this point. I play Sneak Attack with 7 open mana. He Brainstorms, Spell Pierces, Dazes but I pay all of the tax counters and Sneak Attack resolves but i can't activate it. Next turn Sneak Griselbrand swing for life and draw 7. Next turn Sneak both Emra and Grisel :) End of the game he shows me a Flusterstorm and a Pyroblast which he can't use :)

Game 1: I get nothing going except a Misdirection to his Hymn to Tourach. He has no other disruption but I don't draw any Enablers with 2 Emrakuls and a Griselbrand Mocking me. What a way to start the tournament. I also have Pondered Twice already lol

Game 2: I get a 2nd Turn Show and Tell into Emrakul and he has no Liliana of the Veil

Game 3: He mulls to 4 and I combo off turn 2. Better Lucky than Good!!!

Round 2: Dark Maverick

Game 1: I get a turn 2 Kill with Island, Petal, Petal, City of Traitors into Sneak Attack Griselbrand and draw 7 Petal into Emrakul and swing with both with him only having a Bayou and a Deathrite Shaman and misses his 2nd turn land drop.

Game 2: He has a funky sideboard of the Guildmage that can Tap a creature for W. He lays down Thalia, Birds, Deathrite, Guildmage, Sylvan Library and Lands. I somehow get to Show and Tell Sneak Attack into play and Sneak in Griselbrand draw 7 for a Petal, play Petal through Thalia and Sneak in my Emrakul in hand. He gets board wiped but he has DRS and Guildmage in play for the next turn. He has blocked Emrakul so he is still alive. Next turn I draw Pyroclasm although I already have the Echoing Truth to bounce his Guildmage and Sneak in for the Win.

Round 3: U/R Delver

Game 1: I get a turn 3 Show and Tell into Griselbrand with a Counter Back up and that's Game. I never drew 7 cards just Lifelinked him to death.

Game 2: I get a 3rd turn Defense Grid which surprisingly resolves and I Sneak in a few turns later.

Round 4: Boros Burn

Game 1: Turn 2 Show and Tell Emrakul at 16 Life :)

Game 2: I open with 2 Leyline of Sanctity (BETTER LUCKY THAN GOOD!) Turn 2 Show and Tell Emrakul and I Force of Will his newly drawn Ensnaring Bridge.

Round 5: Death and Taxes (mrjumbo03)

Game 1: I get locked out by Mother, Thalia, Karakas then he Vials in Mangara and I scoop.

Game 2: I get a Turn 4 Through the Breach with 2 Sol Lands I think and Eliminate his board. We play draw go for a long time but I already have Sneak Attack in play. After 3 Ponders and 2 Brainstorms I finally top deck Emrakul again when facing lethal as I Force his first 2 Attempts at a Creature and he lands one finally with me having no counters! Bazaar of Moxen? lol

Game 3: I Show and Tell Griselbrand and he lays down a Batterskull. He has Thalia I think and I thought he didn't have Karakas but he plays it on his Turn and Bounces Griselbrand. I draw 6 of course :) I have dealt myself like 9 damage already (Ancient Tomb and Griselbrand) and he does 7. I Through the Breach Emrakul next turn but he has 7 Permanents (Stupid Germ Token!) and the last Phyrexian Revoker kills me.

Round 6: UW Fish

Game 1: Turn 2 Show and Tell Emrakul with Force of Will Back up. He can't race that.

Game 2: No Vial turn 1 this time and he doesn't really get a clock except 2 Mutavaults. I have no combo until like turn 7? I play Defense Grid with a lot of open mana and he burns his Force of Will. When he plays Lord and Silvergill I Pyroclasm them out. I play Sneak Attack and we both play Draw Go for a while with me nearly facing lethal. I finally draw an Emrakul and swing and he scoops despite being alive at 4 Life and no permanents.

Round 7: UWR Patriot (Draw)

ID into Top 8

Quarterfinals: Grixis Show and Know (Super Epic Matches!)

Game 1:

Game 2:

Game 3:

Semifinals: UWR Patriot

Game 1: Turn 3 Show and Tell with Force of Will and Misdirection Back up. He also had 2 Force of Wills but I win the counter war to put Down Emrakul and win.

Game 2: He goes turn 2 Stoneforge into Sword of Feast and Famine? I Pyroclasm with City of Traitors and my mountain this was a misplay I think as I was playing around Daze but City of Traitors died later on and I couldn't ramp into Daze Protection and Spell Pierce protection for my combo I had a lot of Lands in hand that's why I risked losing the City. My Show and Tell gets Dazed, Show and Tell gets Force'd and I die to 3 Swings of Geist of St. Traft.

Game 3: He goes turn 2 Meddling Mage, I of course burn all my fetches to avoid Stifle. For a lot of turns he just has Meddling Mage (Show and Tell) which gets me down to around 10. I decide to Pyroclasm it and he Forces. At this point I already have a lot of lands like 6 mana? I lay down Defense Grid and he burns his other Force of Will. I have only 2 Griselbrands and no enablers but I have a 2nd Pyroclasm. He still has no clock and I cast the 2nd Pyroclasm to kill the lone threat he had. I was down to 7 at this point. I play Sneak Attack with 7 open mana. He Brainstorms, Spell Pierces, Dazes but I pay all of the tax counters and Sneak Attack resolves but i can't activate it. Next turn Sneak Griselbrand swing for life and draw 7. Next turn Sneak both Emra and Grisel :) End of the game he shows me a Flusterstorm and a Pyroblast which he can't use :)

Finals: Punishing Jund

Prize split since it's already midnight :)

Won 4 Force of Will and a Bayou had a really great night with Magic.

In behalf of blindspotxxx:

Our Game 3:
The turns that matters;

My turn:
Me: Cast Thoughtseize
Him: Hard cast Misdirection - Misdirect Thoughtseize to me
Me: Force of Will (pitching Ponder) on Misdirection
Him: Cast Pyroblast to Force of Will
Me: Flusterstorm on Misdirection - He has 3 mana open
(Thoughtseize resolves)
Me: Looking at 1 Force of Will, 1 Spell Pierce and 1 Through the Breach - I took Spell Pierce.
( I have 1 Force of Will, 1 Burning Wish, 1 Show and Tell and 1 Emrakul, Aeons of Torn in my hand. I have 4 mana open in play.)
Me: Cast Show and Tell into Emrakul, the Aeons of Torn.

His turn:
Him: Top deck Griselbrand. Cast Through the Breach drop Griselbrand. Draw 7, his down to 7 life. Cast Sneak Attack, 1 Lotus Petal open. Attack Griselbrand, I block with Emrakul. He gain 7 life and pass the turn.

My turn:
Me: Draw Volcanic Island. Play land (Volcanic Island), Cast Burning Wish (supposed to get Eye of Nowhere to bounce his Sneak Attack) but he counter it with Force of Will pitching a blue card I forgot. Attack my Emrakul, after annahilating 6 permanents (he sacrifice all his lands) he Sneak Griselbrand into play. Draw 7 cards - his down to 6 life after - block my Emrakul - gain 7 life. His left with 1 permanent in play - Sneak Attack - he has more than 7 cards in hand at the end of my turn.

His turn:
Him: Top deck an Emrakul, fetch a mountain then Sneak Emrakul. I have 7 permanents in play and was down to 13 with no blocker. GG

Congrats again. IMO Blindspotxxx is the best Sneak Attack player in our Legacy community. I lost to him before that's why I was afraid that I had to face him in the Quarterfinals.

nodahero

08-09-2013, 09:23 AM

I took S&S to a tourney last night with about 20 players and ended 4-0.
For reference my list hasn't changed since the Milwaukee Open (http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=55038). Yes, I realize the rules have changed a bit and Karakas is ALOT worse for me now, but I have not played ANY magic since then and it completely slipped my mind until the middle of round 1.

Round 1
Merfolk
This guy was running a "classic" list complete with Standstills.

Round 2
TES (I think, I have not looked at the thread in AGES)
This list packed access to BURG and ran Past in Flames as its only engine. His list also included Probes.

Round 3
Miracles
This seemed like a standard UWr Miracles list with Elspeth.

Round 4
Mirror
This deck was fairly idential to mine with the exception of the sideboard plan. He essentially tried to ignore me and simply race with me by leaving in SnT and Petals.

After 4 rounds I learned that Karakas is ehh now although it can still be really handy with Clique and to save our fatties at EOT.

Also Misdirect was not nearly as good as I kept hoping it would be. Between last night and the Open I only got to abuse it 2 times and only once would really have mattered.

What is everyone's thoughts on ditching Misdirect for something else? Any suggestions? I like the idea of maintaining the control count where it is, I was thinking of swapping in V-Cliques to the main and then retooling the board.

I am planning on swaping out the Grids for Leyline of Sanctity.

dcosiem

08-09-2013, 09:37 AM

Congrats to Blindspot. Your report was entertaining to read. It is funny, how you didn't listen to a word I said and still succeeded. Anyways, everyone's ladder of success is different and unique because we all are individuals and have different beliefs. What works for you may not work for me. Props to you.

blindspotxxx

08-09-2013, 02:22 PM

Congrats to Blindspot. Your report was entertaining to read. It is funny, how you didn't listen to a word I said and still succeeded. Anyways, everyone's ladder of success is different and unique because we all are individuals and have different beliefs. What works for you may not work for me. Props to you.

Thanks! Glad you were entertained. My reasoning for Flusterstorm is that I view it as a defensive spell. Obviously if your opponent no longer has any counters and you play this then it protects your spell but that same goes for any counterspell. Defense Grid is an artifact which means that it gets through Pyroblast and Flusterstorms that RUG,Patriot or Control will board in against you. Also with Flusterstorm you need to have another piece of mana which could have been used to cast something else or pay a daze. This is my belief and reasoning that's why I didn't follow your advice.

Probably to each his own. What did you remove to be playing Gitaxian Probes? The preordain?

dcosiem

08-10-2013, 03:18 PM

I removed 2 Intuition and 2 extra counter spells. I used to run 10 counterspells in the main, which consist of 4 Fow, 3 Spell Pierce, and 3 Misdirection. The reason I switched to this version below because I was simply losing to games that I shouldn't lose to, but I was winning against games that I shouldn't be winning against. At a small local tournament with my old setup, I made top 4 out of 42 people with swiss, cut to top 8. I lost to some random affinity deck to not make into the final round. I demolished Elves, Esperblade, Ant, UW Mircales, and Dream Halls omnitell U. I drew to Reanimator. With this new list, I'm beating decks I should be beating, but more or less lose to, sometimes, to decks I shouldn't necessarily be winning against. This version I guarantee you is more fun then any version I've ever played. I still hate Leyline, but there isn't really any other options against discard.

Thats the list I have been playing since the legends rule. Working prety good.
But I havent played much shardless bug and some other decks lately.

I still want opinions on some cards and sideboards.

Im thinking cutting both misdirection for other flusterstorm and spell pierce. This makes the reanimator and storm matchup better. But less good vs tempo due to missdirection being a free counter. And the blowout on hymn. But being better overall.
Opinions?

In side Im still doubing on the wipe away or echoing truth.
Echoing is better vs agro wich i board in taking out countermagic. But wipe away costs more mana, dont bounces cards that are equal. But this happens rarely. But wipe can bounce cards like karakas, maze of ith, omniscense, o ring on the monster, and hatebeats without fear or mother of runes or so and can trick an infernal tutor.

Now on sideboarding plans.
Vs shardless bug. What u take usualy out? Is pyroclasm worth? It destroys all crearures only not goyf. But his creatures usualy are not fast enought or good enought vs us so we should only worry about notion thief or vendilion. But this is solved with 3 REB so. I would like to side 4 leyline and 3 REB.
But what you ppl would take out usualy for like this 7 cards?

Against patriot.
U like to put in pyroclasm? It eats all his guys. But im already sidding in 3 reb 2 grid. Taking out 4 petals and one pierce or ponder. But how many clasm? What other cards take out?

That all for now.
Thanks^^

blindspotxxx

08-11-2013, 12:27 PM

Against patriot.
U like to put in pyroclasm? It eats all his guys. But im already sidding in 3 reb 2 grid. Taking out 4 petals and one pierce or ponder. But how many clasm? What other cards take out?

You take out mana sources versus tempo decks? I usually take out the Intuition, Spell Pierces, one Emrakul, some Misdirections and side in Pyroblast, Defense Grid, Pyroclasm and Through the Breach.

The only matchup I board out Lotus Petals is versus Control Decks.

Togores

08-11-2013, 12:41 PM

Since 3-4 years i play constantly sneak atack i board petals out vs control.
They seem in theory really good.
But lots of times (for myself) u try to combo with help of petals And lose the counterwar. Then u have no other oportunity to combo. Cause u used your counters and ur extra mana. I prefer to lay down extra lands and then combo again. For example i think mosdirection is a great counter vs tempo cause is hard counter without needing mana so u can better pay for taxation counters of him.

Just my way of playing.
Only leave petals vs other combo (and not always) and vs agro.

apple713

08-11-2013, 02:27 PM

Since 3-4 years i play constantly sneak atack i board petals out vs control.
They seem in theory really good.
But lots of times (for myself) u try to combo with help of petals And lose the counterwar. Then u have no other oportunity to combo. Cause u used your counters and ur extra mana. I prefer to lay down extra lands and then combo again. For example i think mosdirection is a great counter vs tempo cause is hard counter without needing mana so u can better pay for taxation counters of him.

Just my way of playing.
Only leave petals vs other combo (and not always) and vs agro.

i agree. control matchups are typically longer and you sculpt your hand so winning quickly isn't great. I sideboard petals out instead and never miss them.

Togores

08-11-2013, 03:01 PM

i agree. control matchups are typically longer and you sculpt your hand so winning quickly isn't great. I sideboard petals out instead and never miss them.

When i meant control i meant also tempo.
All decks with some counters and so are control.
Sorry for the mistake.

I meant i take petals vs control, agrocontrol and tempo.

blindspotxxx

08-11-2013, 11:02 PM

When i meant control i meant also tempo.
All decks with some counters and so are control.
Sorry for the mistake.

Yes, but only if u succed and win the counterwar. If not you fall to much behind and can not win anymore. Thats the reason.

blindspotxxx

08-12-2013, 08:33 AM

I guess to each his own. Doesn't the match up involved sculpting a counter war ready hand? If you usually lose the counter war then you've lost. You can spam your spare copies of Show and Tell and Sneak Attack to let them use their counters then go to town on the key spell you want to resolve. With a lot of mana you just have to think about Force of Will and Pyroblast as the other soft counters will be negated by your petals. I have someone told me that I should also shave petals for the Tempo Matchups but I didn't listen lol I'm just to afraid of getting Wastelanded and Dazed all day.

nodahero

08-12-2013, 11:10 AM

Petal is terrible against taxing decks.

You are First TELLING them if you can or can't pay.

Second you are giving up alternatives such as Defense Grid against RUG

Third Petal grants one where as Pierce costs you two so it will not pay for Pierce.

The only time Petal is good is in the early game when you are trying to rush them, however being a combo deck against control we are best suited to sculpt our hand.

I consider Defense Grid a straight upgrade against control over Petal. We can do both before comboing but one puts alot more weight in our corner from the time we cast it until we win.

blindspotxxx

08-12-2013, 11:36 AM

Petal is terrible against taxing decks.

You are First TELLING them if you can or can't pay.

Second you are giving up alternatives such as Defense Grid against RUG

Third Petal grants one where as Pierce costs you two so it will not pay for Pierce.

The only time Petal is good is in the early game when you are trying to rush them, however being a combo deck against control we are best suited to sculpt our hand.

I consider Defense Grid a straight upgrade against control over Petal. We can do both before comboing but one puts alot more weight in our corner from the time we cast it until we win.

When did I give up Defense Grid? lol

Telling them doesn't matter Daze is dead whether they like or not if you have spare mana sources.

I know spell pierce taxes 2, that's not the issue of spell pierce vs lotus petal, it's about having a ramp of land drops and petal drops that can make a difference. That's my approach rather than fight them with Misdirection and Spell Pierce of our own which I board out in favor of Defense Grids and Pyroblasts.

Of course the best ideal scenario is fetching basics, making a lot of land drops rather than Petals but with 19 lands in the deck, Stifles and Wastelands from them I'm not sure if Petal is worth it or not.

With basic handsculpting it's mana light which your lands can afford. So the only time you would need to burst the petals is for the final counter war. Still, input is appreciated maybe I'm doing it wrong but I've been beating tempo recently lol Daze definitely shines here

nodahero

08-12-2013, 03:48 PM

Perhaps yet again we come to a diverengence in play style. I board out my Petals for Defense Grid.

I would make them pay ALOT more then me get a measly one free mana. To me, it appears rather elementary that Defense Grid is better then Petal.
Petal gets you a net of one mana a single time. Defense Grid will net you an unknown amount of mana depending on your opponents game plan.

OCCASIONALLY Defense Grid will sit and do nothing but at that point Petal would be worth as much.

I genuninely can't think of a situation where Petal is outright better then Grid unless you are in the first 2 to 3 turns or faced with to much pressure that you can't spare 2 mana or 1 turn to win.

I have found myself in alot more situation where I could use the extra tax on them more then I needed 1 more turn or mana.

Additionall I think Daze is a HAIR better then Petal and I am on the fence about Spell Pierce vs Petal for which is stronger for us to have access to game 2 and 3.

Griselpuff

08-12-2013, 07:25 PM

I keep both the Petals AND the Grids in. Petals are good when they tap out, then you can accelerate and kill them. Take out Probes and Intuitions and Counterspells that cost mana.

blindspotxxx

08-12-2013, 09:11 PM

I guess we're the same Akatsuki lol

Typically whenever I board out Intuition I put 1-2 Through the Breach as replacement :)

To the other Sneak Show players what would you choose? (Strictly Blue Tempo Matchup only)

koba

08-13-2013, 04:33 AM

Nobody is arguing you should not sideboard in defense grids against RUG tempo and other tempo decks. They are in your sideboard mainly for those matchups. You are not ‘giving up’ defense grids by keeping the petals. You take out intuitions and then some counters and maybe a few cantrips to make room.

A common way to win against RUG tempo is to reach as much mana as you can and play around taxing counters. Petal helps in that respect.

I would not sideboard out more than one petal against a deck with 4 daze and 4 spell pierce (after side) and especially not for a card that costs 5 mana. Through the breach is really bad in that matchup in my opinion.

blindspotxxx

08-13-2013, 02:12 PM

I'm also not sure about the Through the Breach but I fear Surgical Extraction so I guess I want 1 copy? :) Intuition seems to suck when you're grabbing combo pcs and it gets Surgical'd maybe you can grab multiple different cards but I just side them out.

Togores

08-18-2013, 12:23 PM

I played and event with the deck i posted here in the last page changing the 2 misdi for 1 more pierce and one more flusterstorm cause there was lot of combo in the metagame and i ended 3-2 losing vs the patriot who won, wining another patriot, losing to bug with 5 discards post board, no shardless and no liliana. Then wining counterbalance and back to basics control uwr.

My conclusions where:
3 pierce sucks so max 2 and one misdirection for it.
3 flusterstorm are the nuts.
Defense grid was nuts. So 3rd should come in side,I always liked to se her vs all decks with tons of counters.
Reb was really ok. So still 3.
Leyline was only bought in once. Vs bug. Was not good i put it in. 1st turn g3 and a g4 we played to test. 1st time i only clogged 1 hymn and 1 thoughseize. Wich got bs easy away. And a ve vendilion wich i had for counter anyway.
2nd time i laded it. I only catch 1 disvard spell and another vendilion i had to also counter. And this 2 games i lost. Also to bad draws but i felt they were crap. May be my opp with no liliana and only 5 discards post board bot like the 8 played by shardless and jund. Seemed bad. I think with SDT and countersi can fight it really good.
So i took them out. But will give them another try.

Won the event.
2-0 vs reanimator
2-0 vs rw burn with lynx
2-1 vs bug with tarmos, delvet stifle and pyrexian dregnouth
2-1 vs esper deathblade. With md only 2 fows and some discard and post board 2 more fows, 3 pierce 2 medling and 1 fluster and more discard.
1st here i sided in 2 pyroclasm but later i sided all 4 and it was really really good.

So right now thats im playing. I havent still not played vs shardless or jund. Or even deathblade.
But right now. How the format is going i think its ok. Will se if i test vs this decks and rethink the leylines.
I also think vs tes and ant they are bad. Cause at least in tes in bryant cook s premier on how to sideboard (wich everyone is copying) he sides vs show and tell decks 2 chain of vapor so usualy they run silence and a few discard allong the 2 xantid. So u only get to crush 4 gitaxian and 2 duress 1 therapy. If they go off with ad nauseam they are more probably got the chains. And just combo of. So its better to have a fast deck and stand behind a counterwall in a fast deck.

blindspotxxx

08-22-2013, 09:52 PM

Aside from the obvious Grafdigger's Cage. What are you guys sideboarding against Dredge? :)

Koby

08-22-2013, 11:43 PM

Aside from the obvious Grafdigger's Cage. What are you guys sideboarding against Dredge? :)

Pyroclasm or Echoing Truth; both deal with the zombies and slow them down by a few turns.

TerribleTim68

08-25-2013, 12:05 AM

Aside from the obvious Grafdigger's Cage. What are you guys sideboarding against Dredge? :)
Pyroclasm or Echoing Truth; both deal with the zombies and slow them down by a few turns.

I typically side 2 Tormod's Crypt & 3 Surgical Extraction. Most tell me it isn't the "ideal" setup. But it seems to fit my playstyle very well & I've blown Dredge out too many times with this setup, so I'm sticking with it.

blindspotxxx

08-26-2013, 12:21 AM

Made top 8 again at our recent Major Tournament :) Report to follow! Didn't win the Trophy though :(

Game 1: Paired with a friend! He doesn't get early pressure and I set up a Sneak Attack with Griselbrand and Emrakul.
I remember we have a counterwar but I have too many mana sources to pay his tax counters.

Game 2: Board in my Defense Grids and Pyroblasts I think. He plays Gaddock Teeg which I don't have the counter for
and I just draw a Sneak Attack as enabler and no Show and Tells and he beats me down to death with Pridemage.

Game 3: I boarded in my Pyroclasms. On the play, he plays a Gaddock Teeg again (1 off! Argh!) and I don't get any
Force of Wills to kill Gaddock. I play a Show and Tell for Griselbrand and draw 7 and he plays a Karakas to bounce it
and swing with his guys. I'm at 9 life I think or lower and I go for it. I Brainstorm 1st which gives me Emrakul and a
second Daze which I really need. He has 2 open mana and I play Show and Tell. He counters with Spell Pierce and I try
to Force but Gaddock Teeg is in play so I can't. I go for a double Daze to tap him out and he also has Double Daze but I have
Exact mana to pay for 2 of them and 1 activation of Sneak Attack for Emrakul which clears his board. (I put Sneak Attack into
play from Show and Tell)

Round 2: Patriot (WIN)

Game 1: He has no early pressure and just bolts me 4 times. When he bolts me and he is tapped out I take the opportunity to
fetch basics. He eventually plays a Grim Lavamancer, later on I play a Sneak Attack and pays for his tax counters and we have a counter war.
I am unable to activate Sneak Attack that turn and I am pretty low on life. 9 Life I think or 7 from his lone Grim Lavamancer and the
4 bolts! During my turn I activate Sneak Attack and he Stifles and I fetch a Volcanic Island for a 2nd activation. Griselbrand swings and
I draw 7 with no more Stifles from him. I get an Emrakul and it swings later to take the game.

Game 2: Side in my Defense Grids, Pyroclasms, Pyroblasts and I think a lone Blood Moon. I resolve a Defense Grid which he can only Spell Pierce
but I had Daze back up. That's all she wrote as I was able to put Griselbrand into play and swing him to death.

Round 3: Beck/Call Elves (WIN)

Game 1: I turn 1 Ponder with Lotus Petal setting up a Show and Tell Emrakul the 2nd turn. I do it the 2nd turn and he lays down Craterhoof Behemoth!
I figured he is dead but then he Natural Orders another Craterhoof Behemoth with 3 other elves. Emrakul, can't stop 38 damage only 10 lol

Game 2: Side in Pyroclasms and Leylines for his Cabal Therapies. He goes for a huge Glimpse which I don't counter but he fizzles. He has also played a Gaddock
Teeg earlier before he glimpsed. I Pyroclasm his guys out but he has enough gas to strip my hand then kill me short after.

Game 3: Turn 0 Leyline!!! He has a very slow start and I think I had trouble assembling the combo. There were hardly any threats on his side of the board
because I guess he kept open mana for Spell Pierce and only plays a Gaddock Teeg on his 3rd turn. He plays some more elves after this and I Pyroclasm his board.
I have trouble finding the combo I guess I have mostly creatures. He starts to recover with 2-3 guys and I finally rip a Show and Tell and put Griselbrand into play.
He puts down Craterhoof from my Show and Tell and time is called. I have 2 Sneak Attacks in my hand after drawing 7 but on his turn he plays a Harmonic Sliver
on my Leyline of Sanctity and hits me with a Cabal Therapy. I couldn't draw because I was low on life already (7 life?). Despite this I counted only 9 power on his board
and when he attempts a GSZ for 1 I Force of Will it (Last card on his hand). 9 Power can't race Griselbrand so I don't go for the greedy play of drawing a lot of cards
and just swing 3 Times. I figured if he draws something really relevant then I will draw 7. There was a turn where he didn't swing and I was able to get 21 life but I
didn't activate just to play safe because he was dead the next swing.

Round 4: Reanimator (Lose)

Game 1: He simply has a God hand to my good keep of Daze, Force of Will, Ponder, Preordain and lands. He Thoughtseizes himself and I forgot to
ask the target and I thought he was targetting me turns out he did it to himself discarding Iona. I was able to Daze his 1st reanimation
spell and Force the Daze protection he had. When he played his next Reanimation spell I'm out of counters and he puts Iona into play on Blue. I attempt
a Sneak Attack with a Lotus Petal for Daze protection that I saw in his hand when he Thoughtseized himself. Turns out he drew a Force of Will and Iona
kills me.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1aXqB6ruFHQ

Game 2: I side out Show and Tells which is a mistake! I kept a double Force of Will hand with a bunch of Blue cards and Through the Breach I think. I
counter his combo but he wins the counter war for the 2nd reanimation spell animating Griselbrand which takes over the game. There was one point where
he didn't have the animation spell yet and we were both out of counters and I could have Show and Tell'd Griselbrand but I needed 5 mana because I sided them
out for Through the Breach! Lesson learned!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bYIGJg7JC0k

Round 5: Patriot (Win)

Game 1: I am unable to get a creature despite having 3-4 enablers which will overload his hand of counters. Delver flips early
and ends me very fast. Sometimes 2 Ponders doesn't quite cut it.

Game 2: I was able to resolve a Defense Grid and was able to Sneak Griselbrand into Emrakul him.

Game 3: Time was called and he conceded to me because he had to leave early.

Round 6: Miracles (Draw)

ID with a friend into top 8

Top 8: Reanimator (Round 4 Opponent) (WIN)

Game 1: I know I'm in a bad spot getting paired against him again but what the hell right? I keep a similar hand from
our previous 1st game with Daze back up and Force of Will. He attempts a Careful Study I Force of Will. He attempts an
Entomb tapped out I Daze. He casts another Entomb and I think I also Force of Will or Daze. I figured that his deck has less
spells that put creatures in the graveyard so I counter most of them. Turns out he drew most of those spells and I am in
a tight spot. His 3rd Entomb resolves, getting him tapped out. I Ponder with a very difficult decision.
Top 3 cards are Daze, Intuition and Show and Tell. I only have 2 lands and a Lotus Petal in play so it will make me
have no more future lands to play the Sneak Attack in my Hand. My hand only has Emrakul, Misdirection and Sneak Attack.
He passes with no reanimation spell and I draw the Intuition. End of his turn I attempt an Intuition which he counters. I am
now down to 2 lands with just Daze as protection. He cantrips into a reanimation spell which I cannot answer. Iona naming
Blue comes into play again! After getting the Show and Tell I pass and he swings. I top deck an Ancient Tomb!!!

I attempt my Sneak Attack tapped out and I cross my fingers as he has 2 more cards in his hand. It resolves!!! On his turn
he thinks about killing my Sneak Attack and he casts a Show and Tell of his own. I figure if he has Terrastodon I lose right there
and then. So I put Emrakul into play and he scoops.

Game 2: I've got nothing to board in, that's how bad the situation is! Only my 2 bounce spells for Misdirections. My deck
wants revenge and gives me an opening 7 of Double Daze, Force of Will, some lands and cantrips. I keep this hand as I know
his deck is faster. I draw an Intuition and now I don't go for his cards that put creatures in the graveyard but his reanimation spells.
I eventually draw a Spell Pierce which solidifies my defense. I Daze somewhere but I forgot if it was a cantrup.
He doesn't have Reanimation spells and tries to dig for them. He plays a Pithing Needle on Sneak Attack which I let resolve as
I have Intuition for a different enabler. End of his turn I tutor up Show and Tell with Intuition and it resolves on my side surprisingly.
Griselbrand comes into play and that's all she wrote as I have so many counters in my hand after the 1st draw 7. Double Spell
Pierce, Daze and Double Force of Will and some blue cards. Griselbrand swings 3 times to end the game and revenge for
Sneak Show!

Top 4: Miracles (Round 6 Opponent and tournament winner) (LOSE)

Game 1: Paired against one of the top players of the Philippines who has won so many prestigious prizes. I
Failed to board out my bounce spells, game loss. I guess I was super stressed after winning against Reanimator that
I took a breather and forgot to deboard.

Game 2: Luck is really on my side as I Pyroblast a Vendillion Clique but his 2nd Clique puts my Through the Breach to the bottom.
I draw a Sneak Attack after he Cliques me and it resolves. At this point I have no creatures again and he also has a Karakas tap
into a 2nd Karakas, New Legend Rule! I play pass and he gets a Venser to bounce my Sneak Attack. I am nearly facing lethal so I
fetch my 2nd Misty Rainforest to improve my draw. It did as I top decked an Emrakul and Sneak it into play with 3 red mana.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5htqSD3a4nE

Game 3: I can't win this one as he told me after the match that he had an opening of Triple Force of Will, Top, Counterbalance,
Supreme Verdict and 1 land. He turn 1 tops, turn 2 Counterbalances. I Pyroblast the Counterbalance but he has Force of Will
back up. I am a little idiot from all the stress of the game loss that I don't grabe my early Ponder'd blue card for my own Force of
Will and I chose Through the Breach! What an idiot. Naturally Counterbalance resolves and he has 3, 4 and 5 casting cost spells on
top which spells game for me. He lays down a Pithing Needle some time for Sneak Attack and flips Misdirection and Entreat the Angels
as his Counterbalance top cards. Although he had difficulty with his 3rd and 4th land drops, it is very hard to win when you don't
resolve anything right?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XOjuOH6jNBA

I won 2 Misty Rainforests for all my troubles but I am still determined to win myself a Trophy as my goal in Legacy. Thank
You for the time in reading my report.

Props:

-to one of our shop owners for becoming a Father on the day of the tournament because his wife gave birth that day.
I insist that he names his Son Jace but his wife refuses lol I named my decklist after him, Richard So!
-to Redmond James Lim who wins the whole tournament and helps us defend our home turf. You deserve to win after having
a streak of bad luck to a skilled player.
-to my awesome teammates who make Magic more than enjoyable and our home turf Neutral Grounds Quezon Avenue.
-to 747 who gave me the game on Round 5 because he had to leave.
-to Sneak and Show deck for being so good to me and giving me some really crazy top decks.
-to the event organizers and the coverage for being more comprehensive than usual.

[SLAYER]chaos

08-26-2013, 02:48 PM

How do you guys fight reanimator? I've been getting crushed pretty badly at my LGS both game 1 and after board. I'm not running any dedicated grave hate cards right now but I'm thinking that may have to change.

blindspotxxx

08-27-2013, 01:20 AM

chaos;746159']How do you guys fight reanimator? I've been getting crushed pretty badly at my LGS both game 1 and after board. I'm not running any dedicated grave hate cards right now but I'm thinking that may have to change.

It's a bad matchup honestly. They have a faster combo than us therefore causing us to play into their dazes and etc. By analyzing the decklists, they also have more disruption than us. Sneak Show runs 9-11 Counter Spells while they can run 3-4 Daze, 4 Force of Will and 2-4 Thoughtseize. On the brightside, sometimes when they have animated a creature other than a fistful of counters we still have a chance to Sneak them as Emrakul > Reanimator's Creatures :laugh:

aljiichiban

08-31-2013, 06:06 PM

Made top 8 again at our recent Major Tournament :) Report to follow! Didn't win the Trophy though :(

Top 4: Miracles (Round 6 Opponent and tournament winner) (LOSE)

Game 1: Paired against one of the top players of the Philippines who has won so many prestigious prizes. I
Failed to board out my bounce spells, game loss. I guess I was super stressed after winning against Reanimator that
I took a breather and forgot to deboard.

Game 2: Luck is really on my side as I Pyroblast a Vendillion Clique but his 2nd Clique puts my Through the Breach to the bottom.
I draw a Sneak Attack after he Cliques me and it resolves. At this point I have no creatures again and he also has a Karakas tap
into a 2nd Karakas, New Legend Rule! I play pass and he gets a Venser to bounce my Sneak Attack. I am nearly facing lethal so I
fetch my 2nd Misty Rainforest to improve my draw. It did as I top decked an Emrakul and Sneak it into play with 3 red mana.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5htqSD3a4nE

Game 3: I can't win this one as he told me after the match that he had an opening of Triple Force of Will, Top, Counterbalance,
Supreme Verdict and 1 land. He turn 1 tops, turn 2 Counterbalances. I Pyroblast the Counterbalance but he has Force of Will
back up. I am a little idiot from all the stress of the game loss that I don't grabe my early Ponder'd blue card for my own Force of
Will and I chose Through the Breach! What an idiot. Naturally Counterbalance resolves and he has 3, 4 and 5 casting cost spells on
top which spells game for me. He lays down a Pithing Needle some time for Sneak Attack and flips Misdirection and Entreat the Angels
as his Counterbalance top cards. Although he had difficulty with his 3rd and 4th land drops, it is very hard to win when you don't
resolve anything right?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XOjuOH6jNBA

I won 2 Misty Rainforests for all my troubles but I am still determined to win myself a Trophy as my goal in Legacy. Thank
You for the time in reading my report.

Props:

-to one of our shop owners for becoming a Father on the day of the tournament because his wife gave birth that day.
I insist that he names his Son Jace but his wife refuses lol I named my decklist after him, Richard So!
-to Redmond James Lim who wins the whole tournament and helps us defend our home turf. You deserve to win after having
a streak of bad luck to a skilled player.
-to my awesome teammates who make Magic more than enjoyable and our home turf Neutral Grounds Quezon Avenue.
-to 747 who gave me the game on Round 5 because he had to leave.
-to Sneak and Show deck for being so good to me and giving me some really crazy top decks.
-to the event organizers and the coverage for being more comprehensive than usual.

What did you side out for you pyroblasts, through the breach and wipe away vs Miracles? Has daze been working good for you?

blindspotxxx

09-01-2013, 02:20 AM

What did you side out for you pyroblasts, through the breach and wipe away vs Miracles? Has daze been working good for you?

It used to be a lot different but because of the Meta shift to tempo I have dropped my 1 Boseiju, Who Shelters All for Defense Grids. If you're fightning Miracles it will be an attrition war so your acceleration isn't that strong. You want to overload them with enablers to run them out of counter spells. Surprisingly, people don't know that you can Through the Breach at the end of the opponents turn which will make the creature carry over to your turn for attacking. This enables you to play 2 enablers in a turn. Different casting cost enablers are also great in the chance that they resolve a Counterbalance. It is preferable if you can counter the Counterbalance as it will be more difficult to resolve spells when it is in play. The bounce spells are also for the Counterbalance or Detention Sphere that they will use against you. Pyroblast also kills Detention Sphere and is one of the most important cards in your sideboard as it handles Counterbalance, Detention Sphere, Vendillion Clique and Jace. I find this matchup to be 50/50, you are at an advantage game 1 then the sideboard games they will be slightly advantaged.

Daze has been super amazing in this meta. They don't expect it that much and it catches tempo in their unready state. Sometimes Tempo Decks have to sculpt their hand for a good counter war but sometimes they just have a few. Daze has enabled me to cast a turn 2 Show and Tell with Daze and Force of Will back up and has won me games. Daze can also help you resolve a turn 2 Defense Grid, it's really great as you can compete with their tempo early on.

It used to be a lot different but because of the Meta shift to tempo I have dropped my 1 Boseiju, Who Shelters All for Defense Grids. If you're fightning Miracles it will be an attrition war so your acceleration isn't that strong. You want to overload them with enablers to run them out of counter spells. Surprisingly, people don't know that you can Through the Breach at the end of the opponents turn which will make the creature carry over to your turn for attacking. This enables you to play 2 enablers in a turn. Different casting cost enablers are also great in the chance that they resolve a Counterbalance. It is preferable if you can counter the Counterbalance as it will be more difficult to resolve spells when it is in play. The bounce spells are also for the Counterbalance or Detention Sphere that they will use against you. Pyroblast also kills Detention Sphere and is one of the most important cards in your sideboard as it handles Counterbalance, Detention Sphere, Vendillion Clique and Jace. I find this matchup to be 50/50, you are at an advantage game 1 then the sideboard games they will be slightly advantaged.

Daze has been super amazing in this meta. They don't expect it that much and it catches tempo in their unready state. Sometimes Tempo Decks have to sculpt their hand for a good counter war but sometimes they just have a few. Daze has enabled me to cast a turn 2 Show and Tell with Daze and Force of Will back up and has won me games. Daze can also help you resolve a turn 2 Defense Grid, it's really great as you can compete with their tempo early on.

hi and congrats for result.

@ side: I think that without boseiju vs miracle, post side we have much problems. Grid is not a right chosen card vs this mu, but only vs tempo-deck.
If miracle have a classic build , post side it has a counter wall more vendilion, venser, ...too much, it is their only strategy to fight.
If miracle has RIP, it has much permanents to lock our strategy.

So I have ever boseiju in side to win vs miracle. It is a tier 1 and we have to cosider this mu in our side.
Like bouncer I prefer rushing river , because in some MU like rip, we can buoncer 2 permanent before win (like needle, d. sphere, etc...). Vs rip, it's fantastic that we can use boseiju to cast it.

When I play with miracle without wasteland I play also with 1 intution post side, to be sure to have boseiju on board.

blindspotxxx

09-05-2013, 10:41 PM

hi and congrats for result.

@ side: I think that without boseiju vs miracle, post side we have much problems. Grid is not a right chosen card vs this mu, but only vs tempo-deck.
If miracle have a classic build , post side it has a counter wall more vendilion, venser, ...too much, it is their only strategy to fight.
If miracle has RIP, it has much permanents to lock our strategy.

So I have ever boseiju in side to win vs miracle. It is a tier 1 and we have to cosider this mu in our side.
Like bouncer I prefer rushing river , because in some MU like rip, we can buoncer 2 permanent before win (like needle, d. sphere, etc...). Vs rip, it's fantastic that we can use boseiju to cast it.

When I play with miracle without wasteland I play also with 1 intution post side, to be sure to have boseiju on board.

Thanks!

You're right Defense Grid isn't that great against Miracles but Miracles in my area are at a total down low like only 2 people use them and 30%-40% of the meta is tempo and we have a worse match up against that. Through the Breach shines for me for Show and Tell mirrors and for matchups with Surgical, although this can also change. What is your strategy against other Show and Tell matchups? Blood Moon has also saved me numerous times against Death and Taxes and Maverick Variants and of course the occassional free wins against Deathblade and Shardless BUG.

blindspotxxx

09-08-2013, 09:04 PM

Sneaked in Top 8 again for Legacy Wars VIII :laugh: Will post report soon! :cool:

Game 1: Paired with a team mate! How lucky! We scouted the meta while playing and since the metagame is so
diverse we decided to play it out. I was able to Turn 2 cast a Sneak Attack but he was able to Expedition Map a Karakas.
I have 2 Red Sources and when I attacked for Emrakul again for the 2nd time that turn after it got bounced, he
casted Crop Rotation. I was like "Vesuva for Karakas?" he said "What do you think?" and well I just Dazed and he
quickly scooped them up.

Game 2: Turn 2 Sneak Attack didn't get answered, I guess he wasn't able to draw any disruption I think and I
Sneaked in Emrakul once again.

Round 2: RW Goblins - Win

Game 1: Saw his FB post about buying Thalia so I think to myself he's on Death and Taxes. He wins the
die roll and goes turn 1 Lackey. I am dumbfounded to this point as I don't Daze and say "okay" and then I
suddenly regret saying "okay". So it's RW Goblins after all. Well too late for me I get a 4th turn Show and Tell
into play and I have used the Daze on a Krenko. Emrakul seems to finish the deal but due to his Lackey Speed
and a Goblin Chieftain I face lethal even after Annihilator 6. My God what an idiot I say to myself.

Game 2: He mulls to 6. I get 1 Pyroclasm in my opening hand and a Wipe Away and I think a combo piece. As the
game progresses I cantrip into another Pyroclasm. He has a Rishadan Port lockdown to my Mountain
(lone red source) and when eh Wastes my Sol Land I Wipe Away his Rishadan Port. Pyroclasm clears Thalia and some
other goblins. A second Pyroclasm later and he has no board and I get a Sneak Attack into Emrakul. Later on I top
deck Griselbrand and we're onto Game 3.

Game 3: He mulls to 5 or 4. To further my advantage I get to Pyroclasm his only creatures that he had in play.
I get a turn 3 Show and Tell I think into Emrakul and he Pyroblasts. I have a
Force of Will and hand and when he flips he doesn't show a Matron or a Stingscourger. Emrakuls wins me
game 3!

Round 3: Punishing Jund (Chris Tayao) - Win

Game 1: I mull to 6 this game and he also mulls to 6. He opens with a turn 2 DRS and no discard spells or
disruption. I turn 3 Sneak Attack Griselbrand and draw 14 cards Forcing his Lightning Bolt and attacking for
the win.

Game 2: I mull to 6 this game and now he hits me with a ton of discard. I drew 0 counters or Brainstorms to
protect my combo and Sneak Attack Quickly hits the Bin. After getting hit by 2 Duress, I draw 0 cantrips or search
spells. Nearly the turn before I died I drew a Show and Tell and he Pyroblasted, I Force back and he Pyroblasts again.
Good Game as Tarmogoyf kills me.

Game 3: He mulls to 5 this game and get's mana screwed on just one badlands. I go first this game since I lost
and just play a fetchland. He casts an Inquisition of Kozilek and I think to myself if I would hit it with Misdirection
pitching my Spell Pierce or will I just Pierce it. I figure he probably would just choose the most useless card and
I can save the Misdirection for Hymn so I pierce it. I have no other blue cards though to pitch. Anyway no other follow
ups happened and I already had Emrakul, Through the Breach in my hand. When I get my 4th land a City of Traitors
I can already go for Through the Breach Emrakul but he only has one land and it didn't seem like a great plan. He top
decks a Wasteland to hit my City of Traitors, maybe I misplayed after all. Fortunately I Ponder into a Show and Tell
and play it. He casts a Red Elemental Blast and I Misdirect it. He doesn't have enough to cast Liliana and scoops.

Round 4: RUG Delver (Jacky Chan) - Lose

Game 1: Paired against a very good RUG player and a shop mate of mine. Game 1 he just beats me down with a
Nimble Mongoose and 2 Goyfs and has Double Force of Will for my Show and Tell and Misdirection back up. I don't
get Stifle or Wasted this match but quick clock plus Double Force is too much.

Game 2: Fetch basics whenever I can as usual. Don't remember much but I was able to resolve an Early Blood Moon
vs his slow clock of a Nimble Mongoose. After the match he tells me that he had a Force of Will but not a Blue card.
I was eventually able to Show and Tell an
Emrakul and that's game.

Game 3: I was able to resolve 2 Blood Moons against his clock of Double Nimble Mongoose but I couldn't handle his hand
of Force of Will and Pyroblast. My Show and Tell and Counterback up weren't enough.

Round 5: Manaless Dredge (Fox) - Win

Game 1: He wins the dice rolll and of course wants to go on the draw. I know him because I was the one who
sold him his Dredge cards lol I get a very slow combo, in fact I wasn't able to combo off until he killed me with
Dread Return on Griselbrand to flip his deck. What a sad game 1 for me lol

Game 2: I opt to draw obviously and I get to Show and Tell a Sneak Attack with a Petal into play. He goes Griselbrand.
I figure if I pass to the next turn he will kill me instantly. I can annihilate his Griselbrand with my Emrakul and atleast
dent his life total for one more swing. Surprisingly he activates Griselbrand and flips over his deck putting in 3 Narcomoebas
into play, because of this my Sneaking Emrakul was able to do lethal.

Game 3: I kept a turn 1 Show and Tell Emrakul hand with only a Sol Land and a Petal as mana sources. Time for an all in!!!
If he has Griselbrand then I automatically lose. Fortunately he only draws Griselbrand on his next turn before he discards
a Dredger. Emrakul saves me yet again!

Round 6: RUG Delver (Arrian Ordonez) - Draw

We did the math and even though I am at 8th place the only person who can catch up to a top
8 slot had only 41% tie breaks and I had 51% being the lowest so the Top 8 was secured. We all
decide to eat dinner and we are happy because three people from our Shop was able to make top
8.

ID into Top 8

Quarters: Shardless BUG (Ryan Payabyab)

INCOMING GREAT GAME!

Game 1: Paired against the guy considered to be the "Pillar of Philippine Magic", we chat a bit
and have a few laughs despite the intensity of a quarterfinals match. I open with 2 Show and
Tells, Sneak Attack, Emrakul, Island, Fetch and an Ancient Tomb. He wins the dice roll and I
cross my fingers for a no Thoughtseize turn one play from him. He does and he bins Emrakul.
Funny thing as one of the tournament organizers simply say top deck Emrakul, and of course
I do rip Emrakul again! On his 2nd turn he Thoughtseizes again... Takes Emrakul and leaves me
with no combo on the next turn. I draw a card, no creatures and just pass the turn.

He plays a Shardless Agent that fetches up a small Tarmogoyf. On my turn I think to myself if he
has a Maelstrom Pulse in his deck and I simply slam the Sneak Attack. On his turn unfortunately
he has the Pulse which clears the Sneak Attack. From a great opening hand to an empty hand. A
few turns later he hits me with Hymn to Tourach making me lose my Show and Tells. On my last
turn facing lethal I top deck Griselbrand with no more enablers in hand. :(

Game 2: Opening hand has Leyline, Blood Moon, Sol Land, Emrakul and some other cards I don't
exactly remember. Turn 0 Leyline, Turn 2 Blood Moon. Both resolves, we go into a fast top deck
mode and of course with no colored mana on his side my Sneak Attack is casted with a Force
of Will back up and Griselbrand Emrakul finished the job.

Game 3: Opening hand has Leyline again! Show and Tell, Sneak Attack, Griselbrand, Emrakul,
Ancient Tomb and Fetch! I say to myself this is a near God Draw and I will probably win against him.
Turns out I was wrong! He goes 1st and just plays a land, Leyline is in play of course so he can't
really discard me. I go Land and pass the turn. He lays a fetch land and passes as well. I go for a turn
2 Show and Tell. He Brainstorms and he Forces my Show and Tell. He plays a land and casts a
Tarmogoyf. I play land and I play a Sneak Attack tapped out, end of my turn he goes for a Golgari
Charm on my Sneak Attack! Ouch! That was my last enabler. I continue to draw trash and he lays
down a Liliana of the Veil to still eat my hand. My top decks were really sucky and I lose shortly after.

Sunday Funday

09-09-2013, 01:49 PM

So 2 sneak show lists in the top 16 of the latest starcity legacy open. Both lists ran 4 gitaxian probes. Anybody tried this card? Care to share some thoughts?

blindspotxxx

09-10-2013, 10:16 PM

So 2 sneak show lists in the top 16 of the latest starcity legacy open. Both lists ran 4 gitaxian probes. Anybody tried this card? Care to share some thoughts?

I will most definitely test them soon :) Hollywood has played a list with probes way back and he made top 8. I would assume yes it is great Gitaxian is a great card but it's still up to the player. Some RUG lists run it some don't so it will boil down to personal choice. I can see it's purpose when trying to fight Blue and RUG as you can be fearless after seeing no Wastelands or no Stifles.

Griselpuff

09-13-2013, 12:17 AM

Yeah, the probes are pretty insane in this deck. Really any Show and Tell deck. They tell you when to play around Stifle/Wasteland/specific soft counters. I think the metagame is soft to Sneak and Show now that nobody is running Gilded Drake etc. and Young Pyromancer and SFM are pretty bad vs. combo.

The cycle is basically, the fair decks started beating up on Delver, so now combo is doing well again vs. the fair decks. Once enough people start playing combo, Delver will become good again. Delver is still decent, but has uphill match-ups over Shardless BUG and Loam decks (which combo decks typically beat)

afb0032

09-13-2013, 01:16 PM

I've been playing 2 gitaxian probes in the deck since using them in omnitell and I've never been disappointed. The information they give has been just as valuable as the cantrip part almost every time I've cast them.

blindspotxxx

09-13-2013, 02:13 PM

Wow it seems this is the new thing :) after the last weekly legacy I still lack experience with probes they didn't seem to shine yet as I fought 12 post (easy win), Maverick which I boarded them out for more relevant cards and well crushed team italia and lost to death and taxes. No tempo matches yet :laugh:

JPA

09-13-2013, 02:26 PM

Well, I played 2 Probes in May at the last Bazaar of Moxen, finishing 11-4 in 19th place. It's really a matter of how you like to play the deck; Christopher Brunner (friend of mine, made Top 8 at Strasbourg) for example dislikes them, because he can read his opponent well enough and rather has more counters and additional "real" cantrips like the 1-of Preordain.

Final Fortune

09-14-2013, 09:15 AM

So 2 sneak show lists in the top 16 of the latest starcity legacy open. Both lists ran 4 gitaxian probes. Anybody tried this card? Care to share some thoughts?

I've played Probe in Sneak Attack for ages because I hated Daze, it and Overmaster are probably the best cards in order to resolve your threats as quickly as possible, but unfortunately they leave you defenseless vs discard.

Anybody have thoughts on Swan Song in here?

nodahero

09-14-2013, 10:58 AM

I think Swan Song is really good against us... Not so good for us.

dsck

09-14-2013, 01:05 PM

Caleb wrote that its going to be good in the mirror. I agree.

afb0032

09-14-2013, 04:22 PM

It's nice since it's a hard counter, but I just don't know which decks will want it. I guess if omni and sneak and show decks place highly in a lot of upcoming tournaments then people might sb it, but I'd prefer to play a counter that doesn't leave a body.

apple713

09-14-2013, 11:30 PM

anyone have ideas as to why this deck has not actually taken first in any tournaments? It places well and consistently enough to be a DTB but never seems to take first...whats up with that?

nodahero

09-15-2013, 01:45 AM

Personal expereince suggests the deck will simply shit on itself at least one time where you simply won't win in a large scale tournament. With that in mind the question is will this happen in the swiss or the single elims?

Sunday Funday

09-16-2013, 08:27 AM

Personal expereince suggests the deck will simply shit on itself at least one time where you simply won't win in a large scale tournament. With that in mind the question is will this happen in the swiss or the single elims?

I've placed top 8 or better in the last 8 tournaments or so with this deck at my local shop but the last 2 times were disastrous. Last weekend, I was facing omnitell that was going to kill me next turn. I drew 14 cards off griselbrand-all I needed was 1 of 3 lotus petals remaining in the deck or 1 of 3 force of wills....drew nothing. Next game I dug 19 cards deep (14 off griselbrand, ponder+shuffle, 1 gitaxian probe) just to find 1 of 4 emrakuls. Didn't find jack squat and died to lab maniac.

afb0032

09-16-2013, 09:36 AM

Personal expereince suggests the deck will simply shit on itself at least one time where you simply won't win in a large scale tournament. With that in mind the question is will this happen in the swiss or the single elims?

This sums up my experience with the deck as well.

nodahero

09-16-2013, 11:33 AM

I still think this is a very reasonable deck to play in torunaments though. You are trading random bad draws for a much more straightforward deck and in GPs or other large events you can't undervalue mental endurance.

I would rather play this deck at a GP then say Storm and that is my other deck of complete comfort simply because this deck requires significantly less thinking because the lines are much more straight forward.

blindspotxxx

09-21-2013, 12:34 AM

Not to brag or anything but I have taken a 1st place once :) It is true though that sometimes no amount of drawing and cantripping will get you out of a bad luck!!!

JPA

09-21-2013, 02:23 AM

Well, it did take first three times at SCG Opens in 2013, I think that's pretty good.

MeddlingMageGR

09-21-2013, 10:41 PM

Has anyone tried Stifle? I'am impressed...

blindspotxxx

09-21-2013, 11:55 PM

Has anyone tried Stifle? I'am impressed...

What did you replace? :)

MeddlingMageGR

09-22-2013, 06:35 AM

What did you replace? :)

I can't say what I replaced, because - here - everyone plays a different variation of Sneak and Show. Many players in here have different point of view about the deck. For example, some play Daze, some others not. Some play Spell Pierce, some others not. Some play Intuition, some others not. These are... around 8 open slots to improvise.
Something else. I cant see decklists having 1 or 2 copies of a card. For example 1 Preodrain, 2 Daze, 1 Inuition, 2 Gitaxian Probe... Some cards are intended to play in 4 copies. Or zero. There is no sense in playing 2 Dazes... Daze is an early counterspell, so you have to have it 4 times just to increase the possibilities to find in in the first 8-10 cards. And in late game, because its a free counterspell, you want to have it as many times as you can to fight a contingent counterwar while you try to cast Sneak or Show. In that situation, its better to have 2 Dazes in hand rather than 2 Spell Pierce. The 2 extra mana that I need is.. luxury. The same applies for Preodrain. You already use 4 Brainstorn and 4 Ponder. Just 1 Preodrain has no sense.
So... my personal rules about that deck are :
a)All cards 4 times. 60 cards minus 19 lands = 41 spells. You cant devide 41 in 4... so the closer option is to play 10 cards of 4 +1. But as i said before... I dont like playing single cards. 39, 38, and 37 and not devided with 4. So the next option is "36". Yes 36 gives us 9 cards from 4 copies, plus (+) 5 free slots. For these free slots I choose 2 Misdirections and 3 Stifles.
b) All counters must be free counters. 4 Force of Will, 4 Daze, 2 Misdirection sounds like the best recipe. 10 spell counters and 3 board counters (Stifle) makes a huge arsenal.

About the 3 Progenitus, is a choise that hasn't dissapointed me. Its blue for Fow and MisD, and untargetable / unstopable 10dmg in the head. He deserves a second look.

nodahero

09-23-2013, 10:16 AM

I don't think Progenitus is better then the 4th Emrakul or Griselbrand. They are simply better then Progenitus with a single attack and have a much bigger board presence then Progenitus does. Perhaps a singleton would be viable but there is no way he is better then Progenitus and Griselbrand.

Also there is the concept of diminishing returns. If you really are against singletons I suggest learning about the concept... It taught me alot. In a way this concept lead to ANT playing fewer and fewer AdNeausem to where it is today (loosely mind you, but it did get factored in).

coma

09-24-2013, 04:54 PM

Probe is very good also vs aggro and canadian but it get too slowly the deck vs aothers MU.

@ blindspotxxx: if it's necessary I play 2 TTB whit 1 Leyline and 1 slot to cut, but for mirror I prefere to use esperience and trick. Mirror it's not to much frequent.
TTB help us also with aggro like maverick, but I prefer use also sneak and intuition.

I played this weekend the Ovino tournament in Milan with more tan 400 people. playing obviusly sneak and show. Ended 7-2 loosing 2 match only vs painters and elves.
vs painters 1st game I mange to win even if he has a esnaring bridge on the field but he rebs my griselbrand and I misdirect to the bridge holding after a Wall of counters. 2nd game I show and tell into the field and he put an enchantment that when a creature or enchantment comes into play he switches for another of the same type. He targets his guy I just pyroblast it. So he has no legal target to Exchange. He has no cards in hand. And im at like 11 life. He ddraws a simian spirit guide and plays it. I draw 7 find no forcé he gets my griselbrand and I lose. 3rd game I made a missplay cause i brainstom and put swansong on top instead of the ponder I wanted to. Play thought the breach and he has 2 red mana and 4 cards in hand. I have emrakul, forcé, a blue card, and the ponder I thought was the swansong. He plays reb, I play forcé, He plays another reb with no more mana up and I play the ponder. Then realice Its not the swansong... BOOM. the images looked similar en my mind got destoyed. I should never lose this matchup. Was prety sad...

The other round I lost was vs elves:
where 1st game i just destroy him in the usual way. and then 2nd game I keep a hand with show and tell, petal, tomb, 2 pyroclasm, emrakul, ponder. Its not the hand I like but I have to keep u,u.
he starts forest elf, I make show and tell he puts a visionary into play. Next turn he puts the girl that gives 3 mana taping 3 elves. then glimpse, draws like 7 cards and ends with like 12 permanets or so. I swing he sacrifices. Then next turn he topdecks natural order and the behemoth kills me. 3rd game I resolve a few cantrips, have mana, have some counters for his plays But find no creature. When Im at 4 life and he has 2 simbionte and like 6 elves wich are atacking me. I draw a griselbrand to his 0 cards in hand. But he can jut atack with his team and bounce the guy I block.

Was sad to lose this matchup also where I usualy win but... thats magic...

I dont have my side deck plans here right now, but If someone wants I can post it up.

I know its a wird list, but I have played It similar some thime and won a ton of events and got a lot of tops with it.

Best regards Rodrigo Togores

blindspotxxx

10-03-2013, 03:46 AM

Wow your report makes me wanna try out Swan Songs in my deck. How were they? I guess I can cut 1 Spell Pierce for 1 Swan Song

nodahero

10-06-2013, 01:09 PM

What is the best configuration post board for beating Death and Taxes?

Also any input on the various Delver configurations?

blindspotxxx

10-08-2013, 04:08 AM

@nodahero

Blood Moon and Pyroclasm are really good against Death and Taxes. Through the Breach can also work, we don't need a lot of our counters for this matchup. For Delver decks I find Defense Grid to be the best card against them but if they catch on and board in the artifact hate then we are in trouble.

Game 1: I knew who I was paired against, it's Chinitoz here in the forums. He hasn't really played Legacy in a long time and he always plays a variation of the patriot colors, it can be control or tempo. After I win the die roll and go Island and pass the turn, he plays a turn one Volcanic Island and a Delver of Secrets. On my 2nd turn I Show and Tell an Emrakul with 2 Counter back ups and he scoops.

Board in: 3 Pyroclasm, 3 Defense Grid and 2 Pyroblast.

Game 2: He mulls to 5 and when I Show and Tell again he has little resistance due to having a mull to 5. Lucky!

Round 2: Death and Taxes (Win)

Game 1: Paired with a friend who I know plays Death and Taxes :(. My draw really really sucks. I don't get any enablers for a very long time. He is a bit mana screwed on 2 lands, a Karakas and a Rishadan Port. He only has Thalia as his beater and his turn 2 Revoker I chose to Force of Will. When I am nearly dead like 4 life or so, I finally top deck a Sneak Attack while having a shit load of Lands. He gets annihilated and the game is mine.

Board in: 2 Blood Moon, 3 Pyroclasm, 1 Wipe Away, 1 Echoing Truth

Game 2: Turn 3 Blood Moon and a Through the Breach into Griselbrand is what won me this game. I was able to hit him with a single Pyroclasm when my life was getting low killing Thalia. He didn't draw much hate this game except for a few Oblivion Rings that he tutored which I countered :) Blood Moon really helped in shutting down his Karakas game plan. A second Through the Breach into an Emrakul won me the game.

Round 3: UWR Miracles (Win)

Game 1: Paired against the former National Champ and one of the best players of magic across all formats. I had multiple enablers this game and when I finally resolve one, he Vendillion Cliques away my Griselbrand making my Show and Tell nullified. I get the beats from a Single Vendillion Clique until I'm nearly dead and I don't have a way to Put down a creature because his singleton Karakas came out.

Game 2: I was able to resolve an early Defense Grid this game making him tapped out every turn. I was also able to Spell Pierce away his turn 2 Counterbalance. Eventually I draw into a Sneak Attack and it resolves. I have a single Emrakul but no 2nd creature to finish the game. He gets annihilated but he has a lot of permanents already. I lucky top deck an Intuition after.

Game 3: I won the attrition was as he has expended 3 of his Force of Wills and his Sensei's Top not giving him the goods. He also gets a lot of lands this game although that normally happens to Miracles. His nearly lethal Entreat got Spell Pierced as well. Lucky me! On this game I just had so many enablers which helped me discard his entire hand of answers.

Round 4: Patriot Delver (Lose)

Game 1: I get 2 Islands and I casted 3 Ponders and 2 Brainstorms. My fetchlands evade me and I only get a City of Traitors which gets Wasted.

Board in: 3 Pyroclasm, 3 Defense Grid, 2 Pyroblast

Game 2: Turn 2 Defense Grid gets Dazed, should have played around Daze but I had a double City of Traitors draw so I tried anyway. He hits me with one Wasteland on the City of Traitors. I go Volcanic Island go. He gets another Wasteland and the only land I have is a City of Traitors. I die to his Delver with having a buttload of Red cards with no Red Sources!

Round 5: RUG Delver (Lose)

Game 1: I get a turn 2 Show and Tell with a lot of Mana Back up and a Counter Back up. He only has a Force of Will and Emrakul goes to town.

Board in: 3 Defense Grid, 2 Pyroblast

Game 2: I get an Island and an Ancient Tomb draw and I Ponder into 2 more Ancient Tombs. Since I have a Show and Tell in hand I figure I can just ramp the cast my Show and Tells. He gets 2 Wastelands which is fine and has no early clock. When I attempt a tapped out Sneak Attack he already has a Nimble Mongoose in play. He Dazes my Sneak Attack, no worries all according to plan. Since my life total is still over 10 I draw a Defense Grid and attempt that. He lets it resolve and he casts an Ancient Grudge! OMG! I was shocked! I attempt a Sneak Attack and he Forces. I have another Show and Tell for the win and he has no cards in hand but I was down to 2 life and needed to tap my Ancient Tomb...

Game 3: We play draw go and a lot of lands in play. I was able to resolve a Defense Grid and Sneak Attack but I don't draw a single monster.... No choice but to extend the hand. I get knocked out of Top 8!!!

Round 6: Waterfalls Cascade (Win)

Game 1: After a double backbreaking losing streak, I get so hyped to win my next round that I nearly had a God draw. Turn 2 Show and Tell on an Emrakul and a Daze for his Liliana was enough to finish game 1.

Board in: 2 Blood Moon.

Game 2: I Force of Will his turn 2 Dark Confidant and then drop a turn 2 Blood Moon with him not having a single basic land. He scoops, the match lasted like 10 minutes lol

Props: My team mate winning the entire event with Maverick as our metagame is filled to the brim right now with Delver Decks. 3 of my friends who I play with every week made it to the top 8 including a new friend that never got into a top 8. Having the pleasure of playing against very good players and very friendly players.

Evidently my list from the last SCG MKE was better then the one I piloted yesterday. My old list was MUCH closer to what Jaco played... I was disapointed in the finals though. Very anticlimatic although with Oops all Spells that was to be expected.

JPA

10-14-2013, 01:31 PM

Congrats Jaco! Hope to see a report from you, I still remember the one from Madison last year. :smile:

blindspotxxx

10-14-2013, 02:08 PM

nodahero is jaco? wow grats!

JPA

10-14-2013, 02:12 PM

nodahero is jaco? wow grats!

No, he is not. Jaco is Jaco. Read nodahero's post again. :wink:

TerribleTim68

10-14-2013, 02:30 PM

So we had a little SCG IQ event at our LGS yesterday. I used it to try and tune my deck for the upcoming SCG Open next weekend. Most of this will be from memory, so bare with me.

I made a last minute swap taking out 2 Pyroclasms from the board and going with 2 Blood Moons because there was a lot of talk about how great Blood Moon is at blowing out greedy decks. Plus, I wasn't sure I needed 2 Pyroclasms and 2 Echoing Truths because ultimately you would use them against the same thing, zombie tokens or goblin tokens. So I changed them to 2 Blood Moons. In hind sight, horrible decision. Those 2 Blood Moons were pretty much useless all night.
I use to side 2 Stifle and main 2 more. I decided to swap the 2 main for an extra spell Pierce and an extra Daze and then made some sideboard changes to fit in 4 Not of This World at the urging of this forum regarding "how much infinitely better it is than Stifle". Again, in hind sight, probably the most useless card in the 75. I was NOT impressed.

Now, to the report:

Round 1 vs B/U/G Control -
Game 1:
Never seen this dude before, so no idea what he's playing. He rips my hand apart with heavy discard, eventually beating me down with a Goyf and Bob. Seems good.
Game 2:
Pretty much the same here. I went early Show and Tell into Emrakul, The Aeons Torn. On his turn he dropped Lilliana and my Spaghetti Monster vanished rather quickly. I wasn't really able to recover from there and Bob went the distance.

Yay me! Starting off in the 0-1 column! :tongue: At this point I told myself if I lost one more I'd just go home and spend time with my wife since she wasn't thrilled about me taking her only day off to go do something without her. And it was clear that X-2 would not make the top-8 cut.

Round 2 vs Omni-Tell -
Game 1:
No clue what I'm playing against here, never seen this dude before. He leads with fetch into basic Island and does nothing, so I'm thinking "maybe High Tide?" So I go turn 1 Ancient Tomb, Lotus Petal, Show and Tell and he says "OK!!!!" That's when I knew I had made a mistake. Confirmation was when he put in Omniscience, then untapped and won the game.

Note to self - NEVER DO THAT AGAIN!!!!

Game 2:
So I side out the Show and Tells for those Flusterstorms and a couple Surgical Extractions thinking those might be nice if I can nab something of importance. I spend some time sculpting my hand, as does he. At one point we played "draw-go" for quite some time. Eventually he tries to go in for the Show and Tell and I Force of Will. He Force of Wills back, I Force of Will that, he Pact of Negations that, so I Misdirection that. Everything resolves from that point and it's now my turn. I run out a Sneak Attack into Griselbrand into "draw lots" into Lotus petal into Emrakul, the Aeons Torn and we're off to game 3!

Yay me! I finally won a counter war!

Game 3:
Possibly the most ridiculous game ever! We both spend a huge amount of time sculpting hands. I seem to be having better luck sculpting than him judging from his comments. I seem to have all the Brainstorms and Ponders while he has none. At some point he goes for the Show and Tell and I let it resolve. He puts in the Omniscience while I put in Sneak Attack. He then proceeds to cast Enter the Infinite. I force of Will, he Force of Wills back, I Spell Pierce, he taps 2, I Spell Pierce again, he taps his last 2, I Flusterstorm and him and everybody watching is suddenly going "What the hell just happened here???" He now passes turn and I untap and topdeck Griselbrand with a live Sneak Attack and it's all over but the crying.

1-1

Round 3 vs Grixxis-Pyromancer -
Game 1:
Again, never seen this dude before so no idea what he's playing. I had a strong hand and eventually he can't stop the Sneak Attack/Griselbrand/Emrakul, The Aeons Torn action. I didn't see much from him outside counters, so I'm still a bit confused as to what his gameplan is over there.

Game 2:
Out go the Show and Tells again for some more discard and those Blood Moons since they seem like they might help this matchup. I never see the Blood Moons and he goes early Young Pyromancer and eventually overwhelms me with counters and 1/1 dudes that go the distance.

Game 3:
Ok, new plan. the Blood Moons clearly hate me, so let's try Echoing Truth for those tokens. This time he leads off with an early Delver of Secrets and I'm toataly confused. I've now played 3 games in this match that seem to be against totally different decks each game. WTF??? But it doesn't matter much as I get a Sneak Attack online and a giant black demon and a spaghetti monster are too much for his insect to handle. Moving on!

2-1

Round 4 vs Death And Taxes -
Game 1:
Hmm....yet another guy I've never seen before, so no idea what he was playing. My matches had seemed to run longer than normal, so my scouting wasn't going so well between rounds. Mostly I just had a few minutes each round to step outside and enjoy some sunlight, something we don't get a lot of around these parts. So he leads off with a fetch into basic Plains and I'm thinking Maverick. Then I see Aether Vial and it becomes blatantly obvious at that point. I get an early Sneak Attack online before he can do much and run him over with my big ugly demon and an ode to Pastafarianism.

Game 2:
He gets a good early start with Aether Vial/Karakas into Mangara of Corondor and handles this game pretty easily.

Game 3:
I spend time sculpting and controlling his stuff until I can get Sneak Attack online and blow him out from there. Never once did I see a Not of This World outside of the opening hand of 3 of them that I mulled. Why do my sideboard cards hate me? Still, I'll take the win.

3-1 Guess the wife will have to wait.

Round 5 vs Maverick -
Game 1:
Another guy I've never seen before, so I'm going in blind. But I'm pretty jazzed up when he leads with fetch into basic Plains and drops a Mother of Runes. I starts sculpting, he gets a couple Noble Hierarchs online and then a Goyf gets out of control and this one slips away from me. Hmm.....

Game 2:
I've had fair luck against Maverick, so no idea what went wrong. But I opt for a more control plan and out go the Show and Tells again for some more control and those Not of This Worlds since I expect Karakas. But alas, my sideboard cards hate me, I never see them, and this one slips away as a Goyf goes nuts on me while Qasali Pridemages seem to be all rage. Not sure what just happened, but I know I lost.

3-2 And now there's a slim chance to top-8 at X-2 so I gotta stick around. Sorry wife.

Round 6 vs MUD -
Game 1:
Hey look! Another guy I've never seen before! I have no clue how I made it all day without seeing anyone I actually know sitting across from me. But here we go! So he leads off with a Chalice of the Void at 1 and I have no Force of Will. This didn't take long to get away from me.

Game 2:
I side out the Show and Tells yet again since he has big dudes too and I start to wonder why I don't just play without them in the first place. :confused: I go early Sneak Attack while having what I need to stop him from getting Metalworker online. This one went much better as I cruise to victory.

Game 3:
Cavern of Souls on Construct sucks! So does turn 1 Chalice of the Void on 1. Eventually I was able to bounce it with Echoing Truth, but I had to do that twice since I had no counters to stop him from playing it again. But bouncing it on his end step did let me Brainstorm and Ponder like a madman before it came down again. Eventually he dropped it on 3 and I was happy since I had sided those Show and Tells out anyway. But in the end, uncounterable Metalworkers make a lot of mana and he took this one.

3-3 Damn, not the last round I was hoping for.

So I missed top-8 by a lot. My thoughts on the 75 -

NOT happy with my sideboard at all!!!!
Not of This World kind of sucked. It was never relevant in any of my matches. Even where it would have been I have no idea how I didn't see at least one.
Blood Moon was horribad. Terrible decision to put that in there. Even when it would have mattered, I don't think it would have mattered enough to justify the slots.
My gave hate package that has served me so well in the past was irrelevant as I didn't play a single graveyard deck all day. That was a bummer. Not that I'm changing those slots, but still a bummer.
Several times I wished I had boarded Through the Breach. I find I side out the Show and Tells so much that they would have been good to have, more so vs the other Show and Tell decks and things like MUD where they have good stuff to put in off of it.

Feel free to suggest a better board or some tweaks I can make before SCG-Tacoma this coming weekend.

Togores

10-14-2013, 04:00 PM

I kiked the bllod mons in april already and from there on I have won more event tan ever. Usualy I top in 80 ppl events but after taking blood moons for better cards I win more.

Pyrclasm is needed. I play 4 cause patriot, death and taxes, maveric, elves, goblins u destroy them and u want to draw them in multiples.

Grand Superior

10-14-2013, 09:32 PM

Congrats to Jaco and Sneak and Show! This is probably my favourite deck in the format now.

I'm honestly surprised that it beat Reanimator, though. The winning list didn't have any graveyard hate at all and in my experience I almost always need it in that matchup because Reanimator is basically a faster version of our deck. It's the reason why I never get rid of my 2-of Grafdigger's Cage in my SB (and change it up to 3 if I know for a fact that I'll face Reanimator).

The 3 Sensei's Divining Tops are interesting, too. My Tops are currently gathering dust in my binder and I should give them a go in this deck.

blindspotxxx

10-15-2013, 12:44 AM

Blood Moon is great against 3 color decks and Maverick type decks. Otherwise it's not needed, it really shines on the Maverick and Death and Taxes matchup as it makes Wasteland and Karakas blank enabling your Through the Breach and Show and Tell to be relevant. I agree though that Pyroclasm is also as crucial, why not use both? Not of this World shuts down Karakas and so does Blood Moon and many more. Also the free wins against BG Variants when it resolves but really up to you.

Against MUD you can keep your Show and Tells when you plop down a Huge Emrakul. Even if they Blightsteel you can still beat them as Emrakul will be 4/4 and you swing with Annihilator.

Lol I hope Jaco makes a report here. Terrible of me to misread the post lol

JACO

10-15-2013, 01:06 AM

anyone have ideas as to why this deck has not actually taken first in any tournaments? It places well and consistently enough to be a DTB but never seems to take first...whats up with that?
You were saying? ;)

I will be writing up a tournament report on Eternal Central later this week with thoughts on the decklist, sideboard, and semi-detailed game/match notes. I'll probably toss a link on here when it's up as well.

TerribleTim68

10-15-2013, 10:24 AM

. . .

I will be writing up a tournament report on Eternal Central later this week with thoughts on the decklist, sideboard, and semi-detailed game/match notes. I'll probably toss a link on here when it's up as well.

Hopefully it isn't too much later this week. I'd like to read it before the Open this weekend. Seems I need to tune a bit before I go. Thanks Jaco, looking forward to the report.

Thanks to the others who suggested stuff as well. I'm taking everything into consideration.

Togores

10-15-2013, 10:37 AM

Just test my list on the last page. Its too good!

JACO

10-15-2013, 06:54 PM

My tournament report is now live here:
http://www.eternalcentral.com/scg-milwaukee-legacy-open-report-winning-with-sneak-and-bargain/

Any feedback always welcome. Thanks!

Togores

10-15-2013, 07:28 PM

I played this weekend the Ovino tournament in Milan with more tan 400 people. playing obviusly sneak and show. Ended 7-2 loosing 2 match only vs painters and elves.
vs painters 1st game I mange to win even if he has a esnaring bridge on the field but he rebs my griselbrand and I misdirect to the bridge holding after a Wall of counters. 2nd game I show and tell into the field and he put an enchantment that when a creature or enchantment comes into play he switches for another of the same type. He targets his guy I just pyroblast it. So he has no legal target to Exchange. He has no cards in hand. And im at like 11 life. He ddraws a simian spirit guide and plays it. I draw 7 find no forcé he gets my griselbrand and I lose. 3rd game I made a missplay cause i brainstom and put swansong on top instead of the ponder I wanted to. Play thought the breach and he has 2 red mana and 4 cards in hand. I have emrakul, forcé, a blue card, and the ponder I thought was the swansong. He plays reb, I play forcé, He plays another reb with no more mana up and I play the ponder. Then realice Its not the swansong... BOOM. the images looked similar en my mind got destoyed. I should never lose this matchup. Was prety sad...

The other round I lost was vs elves:
where 1st game i just destroy him in the usual way. and then 2nd game I keep a hand with show and tell, petal, tomb, 2 pyroclasm, emrakul, ponder. Its not the hand I like but I have to keep u,u.
he starts forest elf, I make show and tell he puts a visionary into play. Next turn he puts the girl that gives 3 mana taping 3 elves. then glimpse, draws like 7 cards and ends with like 12 permanets or so. I swing he sacrifices. Then next turn he topdecks natural order and the behemoth kills me. 3rd game I resolve a few cantrips, have mana, have some counters for his plays But find no creature. When Im at 4 life and he has 2 simbionte and like 6 elves wich are atacking me. I draw a griselbrand to his 0 cards in hand. But he can jut atack with his team and bounce the guy I block.

Was sad to lose this matchup also where I usualy win but... thats magic...

The main was heavily influenced by Jaco. The side is what I felt coming out of last weekend's SCG IQ. Any last minute suggestions?

defector

10-18-2013, 12:23 PM

Congrats Jaco on a great win. I played to a 6-3 finish at 49th with Sneak Show as well. Absolutely love the deck, you knocked out one of my playtest partners in the semis, well done:) I run one top main and after reading yoru report and thinking of the meta, you may be right, three may be the correct configuration right now. Not convinced, but food for thought. Anyway, great finish and congrats:))

TerribleTim68

10-21-2013, 01:49 PM

Well, that crap didn't work at all! I took the following to the SCG Open Seattle (Tacoma) :

I made a last minute SB change to drop the 2 Stifles for the 2 REBs. In the end, went 1-3-drop. I don't know what happened. I felt like I was keeping decent hands, they just didn't pan out. I even had a 1st round match where I stopped ANT from going off twice, but couldn't stop the third time and couldn't find my combo pieces at all, even with a Sensei's Divining Top on the board. All day I had opening hands like Ancient Tomb, Volcanic Island, Brainstorm, Griselbrand,Sneak Attack, Lotus Petal, Emrakul, The Aeons Torn. I felt like that kind of hand is keepable. Then you go turn 1 Volcanic Island, Brainstorm and see Emrakul, The Aeons Torn, Emrakul, The Aeons Torn, Daze and in the mean time your opponent goes Wasteland targeting Volcanic Island and you sit there looking bored while he continues to rape your hand with discard. That's pretty much a summary of my whole day. I really hate to say "I got bad draws" or "I had bad luck" 'cause that doesn't help you get better and I've really been pushing myself to find the real reason I lost. But when you're faced with a start like that and your opponent has double Dark Confidant and two turns in a row flips Land, Land, then draw, WTF???? Maybe it just wasn't my day. I don't know. But I've never had that poor of a showing, even at a big tourney like this. I was gonna write an actual report, but what for? I pretty much sucked all day, and who wants to read that? :cry:

Some Props:
My buddy Dave (@AvatarofBro) for loaning me the 4th Scalding Tarn. Oddly, I felt like it made a huge difference. I've gotta get 1 more.
My buddy Charles (@charlo0oki) for just being cool, fun to talk to and always a cheerleader. Besides, you always play cool decks, and I like that.
Feline (@FelineLongmore) for giving me feedback on my keeps. As a former SCG-Open winner your opinion is valued.

Some Slops:
Apparently my play all day. Clearly I'm missing something huge, I need to figure it out.
My deck - Why do you hate me? All I did was try to make you better. I thought we were friends. :frown:

In the end, I salvaged the last half of my day by hanging out with my beautiful wife. So I guess I win there! :cool:

optml

10-21-2013, 10:03 PM

All day I had opening hands like Ancient Tomb, Volcanic Island, Brainstorm, Griselbrand,Sneak Attack, Lotus Petal, Emrakul, The Aeons Torn. I felt like that kind of hand is keepable. Then you go turn 1 Volcanic Island, Brainstorm and see Emrakul, The Aeons Torn, Emrakul, The Aeons Torn, Daze and in the mean time your opponent goes Wasteland targeting Volcanic Island and you sit there looking bored while he continues to rape your hand with discard. That's pretty much a summary of my whole day.

Why did you brainstorm there? Even if he didn't wasteland you, what would it have accomplished?
You would have put 2 cards you didn't want on top, only to draw them again the next couple of turns. I think my turn would have been ancient tomb and lotus petal.
He wastes your tomb.
You play volcanic, draw another emrakul, and pass. He plays discard, you brainstorm in response, hide the good cards, then (if appropriate) daze him. (NOTE: if he seized you, and chose emrakul, you would lose your good cards, so choose accordingly)

I don't think you would have won that game, but I think your play there was not right at all. Maybe look back at what decisions you made, and think about why they didn't work?

TerribleTim68

10-21-2013, 10:29 PM

Why did you brainstorm there? Even if he didn't wasteland you, what would it have accomplished?
You would have put 2 cards you didn't want on top, only to draw them again the next couple of turns. I think my turn would have been ancient tomb and lotus petal.
He wastes your tomb.
You play volcanic, draw another emrakul, and pass. He plays discard, you brainstorm in response, hide the good cards, then (if appropriate) daze him. (NOTE: if he seized you, and chose emrakul, you would lose your good cards, so choose accordingly)

I don't think you would have won that game, but I think your play there was not right at all. Maybe look back at what decisions you made, and think about why they didn't work?

That's what I was looking for there. Thanks for the input, it helps.

You're right, I did misplay it. I'm so use to immediately digging for the pieces that I overlooked bating Wasteland. I've even gotten to where I tend to fetch basics first, I don't know why I was in such a hurry to dig. And what was funny was, game 1 I fetched basics and never once saw a Wasteland from him, so game 2 I was thinking "Well, I guess Wastelands aren't an issue." Boy was in wrong.

MeddlingMageGR

10-22-2013, 07:31 AM

Anyone here thinks that this deck needs further development ? Anyone here believes that it is slow, it has many "dead turns", and it is vulnerable to cheap counterspells such Daze, Spell Pierce?
I have some thoughts of how we can make it better... but i want to hear your suggestions too. The problems I have faced are :
a) Slow mana base. Especially if you lose a land drop, its hard to find 5 mana for Sneak Attack.
b) Show and Tell is not as powerful in here, as it is in OmniTell (its an auto-win in mono-U Omniscience decklist). Here is not. Even if you successfully cast it, you are not sure you 're gonna win.
c) Because we stand in only 2 spells to win, all the counters hit these 2 spells.

JPA

10-22-2013, 10:10 AM

That's what I was looking for there. Thanks for the input, it helps.

You're right, I did misplay it. I'm so use to immediately digging for the pieces that I overlooked bating Wasteland. I've even gotten to where I tend to fetch basics first, I don't know why I was in such a hurry to dig. And what was funny was, game 1 I fetched basics and never once saw a Wasteland from him, so game 2 I was thinking "Well, I guess Wastelands aren't an issue." Boy was in wrong.

Many players choose Sneak&Show because they don't like to think a lot. The only thing you really need to have success with this deck is the ability to cast cantrips properly (and maybe some experience to know when to go off and how to fight hate). You almost NEVER cast t1 brainstorm, the only situation I could imagine doing that would be when you have three Lotus Petals and a Show and Tell in hand.

Still, mistakes are quite easily forgiven through the raw power of the deck, so I guess your result is not only bad due to lack of skill, but also bad luck.

Sunday Funday

10-22-2013, 11:17 AM

Just curious to know what you guys think of this hand against elves on the play game 2.

I kept and show and telled sneak attack turn 1 and proceeded to draw nothing but lands and got killed turn 4 with natural order craterhoof.

MeddlingMageGR

10-22-2013, 05:18 PM

As I say...dead turns.

JACO

10-22-2013, 06:01 PM

What is the best configuration post board for beating Death and Taxes?

Also any input on the various Delver configurations?
The *best* configuration for beating Death and Taxes is just playing 3 Blood Moon main deck in the flex slots. I used to do that when RUG Delver and Death and Taxes/Maverick accounted for a huge portion of the field. Currently though I have 3 Blood Moon and Pyroclasms in the sideboard and don't have much trouble beating D&T.

Against Delver and Shardless BUG variants Defense Grid is very, very good.

All day I had opening hands like Ancient Tomb, Volcanic Island, Brainstorm, Griselbrand,Sneak Attack, Lotus Petal, Emrakul, The Aeons Torn. I felt like that kind of hand is keepable. Then you go turn 1 Volcanic Island, Brainstorm and see Emrakul, The Aeons Torn, Emrakul, The Aeons Torn, Daze and in the mean time your opponent goes Wasteland targeting Volcanic Island and you sit there looking bored while he continues to rape your hand with discard. That's pretty much a summary of my whole day. I really hate to say "I got bad draws" or "I had bad luck" 'cause that doesn't help you get better and I've really been pushing myself to find the real reason I lost. As stated by someone else, playing Brainstorm here is a mistake. When I play this deck I really don't want to cast Brainstorm unless I absolutely have to. That means missing land drops sometimes even, especially if I'm not discarding or under any grave pressure from the opponent, and especially if I'm holding up Spell Pierce against an opposing combo deck. That hand can just sit back for a couple of turns and make your first few land drops. Figure out what your opponent is playing, and hold the Brainstorm for when you absolutely need it, or for when an opponent casts a discard spell and you want to shield the contents of your hand. The most important aspect of playing combo decks is to properly gauge when you need to go off versus when you can go off. It's often much better to be methodical and wait in a deck like this (or OmniTell, High Tide, Doomsday, etc.).

Just curious to know what you guys think of this hand against elves on the play game 2.

I kept and show and telled sneak attack turn 1 and proceeded to draw nothing but lands and got killed turn 4 with natural order craterhoof.I would mulligan this hand every time. For one, you already have a relative mulligan to 6 with the double Ancient Tomb in hand (as it's superfluous), and you have no method of interacting with your opponent via countermagic or Pyroclasm or bounce. You also have no combo piece B, and no deck manipulation. If you're already down a game against Elves (which has a goldfish turn of 3-5), you can't really afford to keep a questionable hand like this. Sneak and Show is powerful enough that it can overcome mulligans, especially against decks without Force of Will to interact with you.

TerribleTim68

10-22-2013, 06:57 PM

. . .
As stated by someone else, playing Brainstorm here is a mistake. When I play this deck I really don't want to cast Brainstorm unless I absolutely have to. That means missing land drops sometimes even, especially if I'm not discarding or under any grave pressure from the opponent, and especially if I'm holding up Spell Pierce against an opposing combo deck. That hand can just sit back for a couple of turns and make your first few land drops. Figure out what your opponent is playing, and hold the Brainstorm for when you absolutely need it, or for when an opponent casts a discard spell and you want to shield the contents of your hand. The most important aspect of playing combo decks is to properly gauge when you need to go off versus when you can go off. It's often much better to be methodical and wait in a deck like this (or OmniTell, High Tide, Doomsday, etc.)...

Thanks for the input. I think I'm so use to thinking that I need to assemble all my pieces right away that I haven't thought to look at it that way. Typically I'm doing everything I can to find all my combo pieces first and foremost. That must be my issue. But when I try to play this deck a lot slower and more controllish, my opponent just rapes my hand with discard or something like that. But it sounds like I need to seriously rethink my lines of play.

Seriously, to both you and optml, much appreciated. I really thank you for your input. :cool:

MeddlingMageGR

10-24-2013, 05:51 PM

Drop the Petals for 4 Grim Monoliths, increase to 12 the cantrips (4 Preordain), and add 2 Through the Breach maindeck. And see what happens...

blindspotxxx

10-24-2013, 11:06 PM

Drop the Petals for 4 Grim Monoliths, increase to 12 the cantrips (4 Preordain), and add 2 Through the Breach maindeck. And see what happens...

Have you tried this yourself? lol Seems fun!

MeddlingMageGR

10-25-2013, 06:34 AM

Have you tried this yourself? lol Seems fun!

Yes this is my current built I'am testing in MWS.
a) Grim Monoliths overcome the cheap counters (Daze, Spell Pierce) that everybody uses.
b) You can play a 2nd turn Sneak Attack (Sol-Land > Grim Monolith. Volcanic > Sneak)
c) The Monoliths is not a new recipe. Hive Mind use them for a card with 6 casting cost.
d) The 12 cantrips is not a new recipe either. Omniscience combo use them. Generally in our 2 cards combo, working better.
e) Through the Breach must become a mainboard card. Its an additional threat, and its cheaper (1 red mana) than Sneak Attack.

As a result, the deck is more aggressive now, doesn't stuck with "dead turns", has protection from counters, and uses 3 threats to win.

JPA

10-25-2013, 10:01 AM

Yes this is my current built I'am testing in MWS.
a) Grim Monoliths overcome the cheap counters (Daze, Spell Pierce) that everybody uses.
b) You can play a 2nd turn Sneak Attack (Sol-Land > Grim Monolith. Volcanic > Sneak)
c) The Monoliths is not a new recipe. Hive Mind use them for a card with 6 casting cost.
d) The 12 cantrips is not a new recipe either. Omniscience combo use them. Generally in our 2 cards combo, working better.
e) Through the Breach must become a mainboard card. Its an additional threat, and its cheaper (1 red mana) than Sneak Attack.

As a result, the deck is more aggressive now, doesn't stuck with "dead turns", has protection from counters, and uses 3 threats to win.

a) You never cast your enabler against Tempo or control decks with Spell Pierce, if you aren't Daze/Pierce proof. Of course, these soft-counters can still lose you games, but that's what Defense Grid is for.

b) I don't like that. You open yourself up to Wasteland on turn 1, something this deck should only do if it draws one of its 3
Volcanics or in the case of T1 Petal Sol-land (which seems much better than a T2 daze-proof Sneak Attack that can't be activated.) You can even do the same with Sol-land Mountain/Volc Petal (ofc you are not Daze-proof then, that's true). You also give decay-decks a nice target for their otherwise dead card. Imagine a T1 Deathrite shaman into t2 Waste your Sol-land, decay your Monolith. And you need mana to play it, which can be relevant if you need open mana for Pierce or Brainstorm on your opponent's turn.
Moreover, Petals are as essential to our strategy as Grim Monolith was to Hive Mind. Their game plan was to cast a 5U enchantment and protect that with free counters. We, however need one free mana of any color so much more than 3 colorless for 2, because it can cast Pierce, Flusterstorm, REB, enable a Show and Tell t1 and, most importantly since Griselbrand is a thing, activate Sneak Attack.

If you have problems with soft-counters, increase the number of Defense Grids. Lotus Petal is essential to this deck.

d) What did you cut for the cantrips? Counters? Omniclash plays 12, because it is a 3 card combo most of the time and suffers harder from discard than we do. Playing some number of Sensei's Divining Top, as Jaco did, seems enough in this deck if you think you need more than 8/9 cantrips.

e) What did you cut there? Again, cutting counters for another, worse, enabler seems questionable. I rather resolve a Sneak Attack by countering my opponent's counter than having my Sneak Attack countered and casting a TTB next turn that doesn't always win me the game and forces me to assemble the combo all again.

I think the deck is really strong in its current configurations. Cutting counters for cantrips and more enablers might improve the consistency, but also decreases our matchups against faster combo decks where we often take the control role.

Sneak&Show definitely has a lot of problems with variance, but solving those creates other problems which might make the deck worse in the end.
Still, I will give 12 cantrips and maindeck TtB a try. :-)

MeddlingMageGR

10-25-2013, 11:22 AM

And 3 to 4 Grim Monoliths. Thought the Breach is not effective without them. I will post later my testing decklist

JPA

10-27-2013, 02:07 PM

Three Sneak and Shows in the SCG Invi semifinals. They know what's good :wink:

blindspotxxx

10-27-2013, 10:09 PM

Three Sneak and Shows in the SCG Invi semifinals. They know what's good :wink:

Now I'm lost.. Gitaxian Probe build or the Huey package? :(

nodahero

10-27-2013, 11:05 PM

Why did Huey pitch the Emrakul with only a Grisel in hand against an unflipped Delver with a Sword of Feast and Famine on it?

JPA

10-28-2013, 05:03 AM

Why did Huey pitch the Emrakul with only a Grisel in hand against an unflipped Delver with a Sword of Feast and Famine on it?

That was Chris VanMeter, not Huey. :laugh:

I guess he wanted to get his countered threats and played cantrips back in his library to improve chances of actually finding something. Maybe he didn't see the interaction between a pro-black Delver and Griselbrand? :eyebrow:

nodahero

10-28-2013, 09:17 AM

Good catch LOL, my bad. Yea, I assumed he didn't notice the pro-black part but I was curious if I was being an idiot and missed something. The pro-black just seemed to obvious, considering it used to be a big part of the old stoneblade lists.

Higgs

10-28-2013, 09:44 AM

So the SCG crew is mostly on the Sneak&Show plan as opposed to OmniTell. Meta call or because it's the better S&T deck?

DrHealex

10-28-2013, 12:01 PM

Probably the same reason as me, It's the best Blood Moon deck.

JPA

10-28-2013, 12:04 PM

Generally speaking, it's probably the better deck. Your matchup against other combo decks is much better because you play more live counters than Omniclash, which plays Pact of Negation instead of Spell Pierce/Misdirection/REB/Flusterstorm.

The other obvious advantage is that it's a 2 card combo you have to resolve (you could call it 3 cards if Sneak Attack Emrakul doesn't win you the game right away), whereas Omniclash always needs 3 cards, if it doesn't draw its 1-of Emrakul to s&t into play.

The disadvantage is Sneak & Shows higher vulnerability to hate, because you have to attack to win the game. If you have your "whole" combo of Snt + creature or Sneak Attack + creature you won't win the game 100 % if it resolves.
Thus, if permanent-fatty-hate increases Omnishow will definitely be the better choice, because it doesn't care about that.

alphacat

10-28-2013, 02:08 PM

I'm not sure I'd call it the better deck. I think a big part of it has to do with Sneak and Show being the easier deck to pilot. The Invitational is a grindfest, and over this many rounds, you are bound to have mental fatigue. Thus, choosing a deck that's straightforward and often times lead to quick wins can be a big strategical advantage.

lordofthepit

10-28-2013, 02:46 PM

Sneak Attack is the better deck, but Omniclash has better Show and Tells.

JPA

10-28-2013, 03:58 PM

I'm not sure I'd call it the better deck. I think a big part of it has to do with Sneak and Show being the easier deck to pilot. The Invitational is a grindfest, and over this many rounds, you are bound to have mental fatigue. Thus, choosing a deck that's straightforward and often times lead to quick wins can be a big strategical advantage.

You don't want to tell me Omniclash is difficult to pilot, do you? :laugh: Both decks are extremely straightforward in the way they play out, compared to other combo decks like Storm.

gregtron

10-28-2013, 04:17 PM

You don't want to tell me Omniclash is difficult to pilot, do you? :laugh: Both decks are extremely straightforward in the way they play out, compared to other combo decks like Storm.

Agreed. Dredge, Elves, High Tide, and Tendrils variants are all seem way more difficult to pilot. I know it's a gross over-simplification to say the deck is easy, but it definitely isn't rocket science to get Omniscience into play with Dream Halls and Show and Tell.

Dzra

11-01-2013, 04:43 PM

Generally speaking, it's probably the better deck. Your matchup against other combo decks is much better because you play more live counters than Omniclash, which plays Pact of Negation instead of Spell Pierce/Misdirection/REB/Flusterstorm.

I've thought about this and I'm not sure why Omniscience just doesn't run Spell Pierces itself, or even main deck Swan Songs for that matter. I think Omniscience is strongly favored in the Show and Tell mirror, but it does seem like overall Sneak and Show is both easier to pilot and has possibly stronger (or at least more consistent) MUs across the board.

blindspotxxx

11-03-2013, 10:16 PM

I've thought about this and I'm not sure why Omniscience just doesn't run Spell Pierces itself, or even main deck Swan Songs for that matter. I think Omniscience is strongly favored in the Show and Tell mirror, but it does seem like overall Sneak and Show is both easier to pilot and has possibly stronger (or at least more consistent) MUs across the board.

Yeah me too but I guess the Pacts are better for the counter war which makes this deck beat Tempo Decks. Spell Pierce is really good for the Black Discard matchups and well Omnitell relies on it's 4 Leyline sideboard for this.

Sneak and Show usually beats Omnitell because it runs more counters. Omnitell also has a harder time defending itself outside of Force of Will when Sneak Show combos off with Sneak Attack due to Pact of Negation being not good as a defensive tool. Flusterstorm is also a blow out to Omnitell when people run it.

apple713

11-06-2013, 03:23 AM

So the SCG crew is mostly on the Sneak&Show plan as opposed to OmniTell. Meta call or because it's the better S&T deck?

Sneak and Show is the better deck. In fact it has always been. The deck has raw power and consistency and looses mainly to misplays / mulllagains. Sneak and show requires more thought than Omni and has better match ups. It is almost more consistent. Consistency leads to better win% and in an 8-9 round tournament over the long run that consistency adds up.

Omni has 2 modes; Haha i win! or its more common mode, Durdle, Durdle, dead....

on a side note....I strongly dislike Omni cause of its consistency issues, but I loath high tide, and if someone wants to play a mono blue combo deck they should play omni over high tide because its better and your opponents probably won't hate you after the match.

@ MeddlingMageGR

a) Grim Monoliths overcome the cheap counters (Daze, Spell Pierce) that everybody uses. <--- You cannot cast grim monolith to activate sneak attack a second time after drawing with griselbrand.

b) You can play a 2nd turn Sneak Attack (Sol-Land > Grim Monolith. Volcanic > Sneak) <---- the deck has a t1 show and tell potential, and adding monolith to possibly speed it up seems greedy. Greedy often translates into less consistent and making poor choices.

c) The Monoliths is not a new recipe. Hive Mind use them for a card with 6 casting cost. <-----the last time hive mind did well it had mental misstep to fall back on

d) The 12 cantrips is not a new recipe either. Omniscience combo use them. Generally in our 2 cards combo, working better. <----- omniscience needs the cantrips because its too inconsistent i don't feel like this deck is along the same lines. Maybe you should try playing SDT / intuitions

e) Through the Breach must become a mainboard card. Its an additional threat, and its cheaper (1 red mana) than Sneak Attack. <--- TTB might be better than the Misdirections in Jaco's list. This might be the consistency you are looking for.

@Jaco

I read your article on eternal central and i wonder about the misdirections. I've played both with then and without them and feel like I do not miss them. When you add SDT to improve match ups against discard, and you brainstorm to hide cards misdirections seem almost irrelevant. I've found that they help most against burn decks and Hymn to tourach, however against burn decks you really just need to improve deck consistency / speed, and against decks running hymn (BUG / jund) they aren't difficult match ups to begin with.

I think you have mentioned that misdirections are flex spots, so for game 1 why not include something that improves consistency? Something like intuition / cantrips

I think i follow and agree with your boarding choices but you mentioned that you would include swan song over fluster storm. Do you worry about that the 2/2 might add too much pressure to your life total similar to gitaxian probe? Have you tested with it?

I've found that one of the main reasons that gitaxian probe is a bad choice for this deck because it adds unwanted pressure to your life total. Also, the information it provides is not very useful for someone who knows the format well.

Do you find yourself wishing you had some grave hate in your board?

Finally, how do you handle the miracles matchup? I've found this to be unfavorable. How would you board for it?

JACO

11-06-2013, 01:21 PM

Drop the Petals for 4 Grim Monoliths, increase to 12 the cantrips (4 Preordain), and add 2 Through the Breach maindeck. And see what happens...If you're going to do this you might as well play Hive Mind. It's a better Grim Monolith deck.

@Jaco

I read your article on eternal central and i wonder about the misdirections. I've played both with then and without them and feel like I do not miss them. When you add SDT to improve match ups against discard, and you brainstorm to hide cards misdirections seem almost irrelevant. I've found that they help most against burn decks and Hymn to tourach, however against burn decks you really just need to improve deck consistency / speed, and against decks running hymn (BUG / jund) they aren't difficult match ups to begin with.

I think you have mentioned that misdirections are flex spots, so for game 1 why not include something that improves consistency? Something like intuition / cantrips

I think i follow and agree with your boarding choices but you mentioned that you would include swan song over fluster storm. Do you worry about that the 2/2 might add too much pressure to your life total similar to gitaxian probe? Have you tested with it?

I've found that one of the main reasons that gitaxian probe is a bad choice for this deck because it adds unwanted pressure to your life total. Also, the information it provides is not very useful for someone who knows the format well.

Do you find yourself wishing you had some grave hate in your board?

Finally, how do you handle the miracles matchup? I've found this to be unfavorable. How would you board for it?
1) Misdirection - it's mainly there just as another pitch counter (ie Force 5-6 in counterwars). At the Invitational I ran 1 Misdirection main and 1 Swan Song main (with 2 Swan Song in sideboard), and at Legacy Champs this past weekend I cut both Misdirections for 2 Swan Song main (and a 3rd in sideboard), because I expected to play more combo. I consider everything besides the core (4 Force, 4 Sneak, 4 Show, 8 creatures) to be flex spots, so change configuration based on what you expect to play.
2) Swan Song is a big upgrade over Flusterstorm, and I won't look back from that. The 2/2 is a flying body, but definitely worth the tradeoff of a hard counter, and something that can deal with opposing Sneak Attacks, discard, Forces, and combo cards for 1 mana.
3) Gitaxian Probe is good against a bunch of combo mirrors, so you have more perfect information for Show and Tell. I prefer Sensei's Divining Top though to help overcome mulligans and discard in a more general metagame.
4) Graveyard hate goes in and out of the sideboard. Having like 2 pieces isn't really that effective, because it's difficult to find, and easy for a deck like Dredge to answer. I think it's best to either have 4 pieces or 0.
5) I think I am 2-0 in matches against Miracles in tourneys with this deck, but it doesn't seem that tough. I don't see people playing a lot of Miracles now anyway. They might have Counterbalance, but you have a ton of counterspells (probably more than them) and your key spells cost 3 and 4 mana. They initially have a handful of dead cards, and you basically have none, being a dedicated combo deck.

coma

11-08-2013, 06:50 AM

Thanks to jaco, because I use his build with 3x of SDT and I fell it very well. I don't miss intuition and it is a continuos looking for bombs against black deck, that attack your hand, with disruption.
I 'm not a fan of swang because I think we have just a main deck hard counter like pierce, and for counter war I prefer ever fluster . Whatever I thin k that there are some times which a 2/2 it' s rilevant in the game.

http://www.thecouncil.es/tcdecks/deck.php?id=12072&iddeck=88475

bye:smile:

JACO

11-08-2013, 01:55 PM

Thanks to jaco, because I use his build with 3x of SDT and I fell it very well. I don't miss intuition and it is a continuos looking for bombs against black deck, that attack your hand, with disruption.
I 'm not a fan of swang because I think we have just a main deck hard counter like pierce, and for counter war I prefer ever fluster . Whatever I thin k that there are some times which a 2/2 it' s rilevant in the game.

http://www.thecouncil.es/tcdecks/deck.php?id=12072&iddeck=88475

bye:smile:Very good! Your sideboard has a few interesting choices, and I was wondering if you would expand on how they performed for you. Most notably the 3 Boseiju and 3 Defense Grid. What are you siding them against, and how are you sideboarding (like what cards in and out?)? Thank you and congrats on the Top 8.

apple713

11-08-2013, 02:37 PM

Very good! Your sideboard has a few interesting choices, and I was wondering if you would expand on how they performed for you. Most notably the 3 Boseiju and 3 Defense Grid. What are you siding them against, and how are you sideboarding (like what cards in and out?)? Thank you and congrats on the Top 8.

I've played boseiju in my board before and it goes in against decks like miracles, and the mirror. You take out mana sources for them. It lets you push your spells thorough uncountered for an easy victory. You can use boseiju to S&T a Sneak Attack into play or use it with through the breach. It's good if your meta is packed with decks that are counter heavy but i've found that its not great against RUG / BUG because they have wastelands and it comes into play tapped. Rug makes up a significantly larger portion of my meta and defense grids seem to perform better in those match ups.

its a meta call.

Togores

11-09-2013, 04:58 AM

I also play since a long time boseiju. And in the mirror or vs combo decks it shines in making show and tell into sneak. Its like xantid in the storm decks. Just there to beat non removal counter decks.

Then i also side it in vs tempo. But im not sure if its worth. But won us many games. That muss be said. If there is no big pressure in the board ur plan would be to make volcanic or ancient tomb like turn 2-3 and if you opponent dont wasteland it. Just play boseiju. If he does. Then play another land and retry if it gets wastelanded. And then win.
Its kinda a slow plan but if there is no delver in play is easy Afordable.

blindspotxxx

11-11-2013, 03:20 AM

Scrubbed out at our last major tournament..

Lesson learned! Flusterstorm > Swan Song..

Lost to Omnitell a matchup which I usually crush. On our 3rd game I didn't have 3 counters for his turn 4 Show and Tell into Force and Pact. Swan Song didn't save me. Flusterstorm could have. Went to hell matchups after lol

MUD then DNT...

somethingdotdotdot

11-11-2013, 03:20 AM

I recently started testing this deck since it seems to have more raw power than the monoblue omni deck. However, this deck's show and tells are definitely much worse and I was having a lot of trouble versus dnt. It honestly seems like show is the worst card versus them and I often end up boarding out 2 of them for through the breaches. I thought about what could help out the matchup as I already had 3 pyroclasms in the board (he recovered after 2 board wipes for 2 creatures each); so I thought that spellskite might be good for the deck. It can absorb a lot of the things that white/blue has to show in. It also blocks hatebears for days while surviving your own clasms. What do you guys think? (Don't know if this has been discussed before)

Togores

11-11-2013, 05:07 AM

spellskite is nice but you really want to have it? it dosnt sabe you from karakas wich is a major problema in the hatebears matchup.

I play 4 pyroclams and 2 echoing truth vs death and taxes and its fine. But anyway its a hard matchup. Pithing needle for example seems better tan blood moon against them stops mother of runes so u can pyroclams them for infinite. also mangara, vial, stoneforge, an equip or karakas. I play none of them but If i wanna fight death and taxes i wuld prefer after my echoings and clasms the pithing.

Also other option is just to play 3 progenitus in the side board. If u can its the best card. Just show and tell into him and auto win.

coma

11-11-2013, 09:22 AM

@ blindspotxxx : yes I'm agree with you . I think that in every situation there is a counter better than swong:
best counter for counter-war: fluster
in mu vs blu based, when you need to a conter -removal: reb

etc...

@jaco: thanks, but it's a small tournament, I'm old player since 1996.
With family I don't go so far for big tournament like until 2007.
In that tournament I don't lose a game until top8 where I lose in a strange way to a goblin :eek:

Boseiju it's mainly vs miracle. In Italy and europe it's much played. Few time ago some player play also rip version with many threat. Obv I can useit in other mu.
Defense are for tempodeck like rug and patriot

I play in defense because I can't lose to a fast delver , so I keep all accelation to a fast defense, and I play for a show for griselbrand. I keep out some sneak and 1 emrakul because I won't to discard some piece and go under surgical.

mistervader

11-11-2013, 11:29 PM

My apologies for not making a detailed tournament report. I couldn't take too many notes because I was worried my opponents would end up reading what my opening hands were if I got that detailed.

Anyways, after punting my first Legacy tournament in a year last month, I came back to another one and had a 4-2 outing, resulting in 10th place. Not bad, but there was one round in particular I really regret. Lemme get to that in a bit.

I ran the exact 75 Jaco did during the SCG tournament. I'd love to have been more creative, but after weighing my options and the prevalence of ANT in my meta, I believe Swan Song was mostly an inferior choice to Flusterstorm in the board for my purposes.

ROUND 1: VS Ad Nauseam Tendrils (1-0)

Game 1: I lose the die roll, he opens with a Duress, and takes my Force of Will. I held Brainstorm, a few lands, a Spell Pierce, an Emrakul, a Griselbrand. I topdecked a second Spell Pierce. Next turn, he cast Ponder, I Pierced it. On my next turn, I got a Show and Tell, and put Emrakul into play. He had nothing his next turn, and with Spell Pierce mana up, I swung and he scooped.

Game 2: I mull to 6 because my opening hand had no answers to him. He opens with Duress, and sees my hand: Show and Tell, Force of Willx2, Spell Pierce, and lands. He takes Show and Tell, passes the turn to me, and I topdecked Brainstorm, and played a Volcanic Island. I spell pierced his Preordain, then topdecked Sneak Attack. I lay down a Fetchland. His turn, he cast Gitaxian Probe and a Ponder, but shockingly, did not find land drop #3. I Brainstormed into Griselbrand and shipped back two irrelevant cards, then managed to Sneak him in and Emrakul off a draw two turns later. The ANT deck punted hard that entire match.

ROUND 2: VS RIP Helm (2-0)

Game 1: He wins the die roll, gets to put down Counterbalance after winning a FOW war with me, as I was tapped out to Ponder on my first turn. Afterwards, I manage to Spell Pierce his SDT, and play my own SDT after. A few turns later, I cast Sneak Attack, and activate twice with 22 Power on the board. We go to Game 2.

Game 2: Mostly just durdling around on my part, and he cast RIP on turn 2. When I played Show and Tell, whoops, Helm. We head to Game 3.

Game 3: What a fascinating game. Turn 1, Top. I managed to get Defense Grid in on Turn 2 to his RIP. I had a turn 3 Show and Tell, and he put down Detention Sphere to handle my Griselbrand. Next turn, I REB'd that. I swung a few times, always drawing to make sure I have both a counter and mana to pay for the Grid. Every single turn, he topdecked an answer to Griselbrand, and every turn, I had a FOW or a Pierce ready. On the penultimate turn, he cast Helm with 6 mana on his table, I pierced it, he paid, but he had no mana to activate.

ROUND 3: VS Omnitell (2-1)

Game 1: I wasn't able to counter his Show and Tell on the 4th turn, and while I had Emrakul, he had Omniscience and Enter the Infinite.

Boarding: -1 Island, -1 Show and Tell, +2 REB. Oh, look! What an idiot! 2 Through The Breach, 2 Flusterstorm, all sitting around uselessly in my sideboard!

Game 2: We played a long game, but I had better card quality through SDT. The game went so long that he hardcast Omniscience on me, and the ensuing counterwar resulted in Omniscience resolving, but only after he pitched Enter the Infinite to his FOW. He paid his two Pact triggers, and didn't get anything of importance on the next few turns until I cast Sneak Attack and made short work of him via Griselbrand, since all his Sol Lands have been hurting him a lot.

Game 3: He managed to win a counterwar to cast Show and Tell on turn 4, I bounced the ensuing Omniscience in response to his Cunning Wish. Unfortunately, all he did afterwards was to get Noxious Revival, and do it all over again. I was ready to draw it out again, but he topdecked Emrakul next turn. Feh.

Horrible boarding choices did me in here.

ROUND 4: VS Goblins (3-1)

Game 1: I hit Show and Tell on him to put Sneak Attack into play. His only possible response was Stingscourger via Vial against my creatures. Unfortunately for him, I had both Emrakul and Griselbrand, and enough life to survive him. I swung with Emrakul, as he bounced Griselbrand, he lost all his lands, but kept all his creatures, but didn't have enough to kill me on his turn.

Game 2: I got overrun by Goblins because I couldn't find combo pieces in time. Grumble.

Game 3: Show and Tell turn 2, bounced back Griselbrand via Stingscourger. He had a lot of critters, but when I managed to swing with Griselbrand via Sneak Attack two turns later, I drew 7, found a Petal and a Pyroclasm, and used that plus another Petal to wipe his board except of a 3/3 Goblin. Each succeeding turn, I swung with Grisel, drew 7, found another Grisel.

ROUND 5: VS UR Delver (3-2)

Game 1: He opens with Delver. I die to Goblin Guides and Bolts and couldn't combo out in time.

Game 2: It was even worse. Bolts and Goblin Guides overran me, and he had answers to my attempts to combo out.

ROUND 6: VS Berserk Stompy (4-2)

Game 1: Finally, I win a die roll! I open my hand and see Lotus Petal x 3, Emrakul, Show and Tell, and 2 land. I decided that my opponent will either have Force or not, so went for it. He played a Green Creature to S and T, and from there, I knew I was gonna win.

Game 2: He was racing me damage-wise since I was still trying to assemble my combo by finding the mana. I held all the combo pieces, but was a Sol Land away from it. He pumped his critter, then went with Berserk, I forced the Berserk, then topdecked the Sol Land I needed to Sneak in two creatures in one go.

blindspotxxx

11-12-2013, 12:10 AM

@Mistervader

Sino ka? lol

@Flusterstorm Topic

I guess the only time Swan Song outshines Flusterstorm is during the mirror. I also liked the fact that it could counter a Counterbalance. But usually that matchup is in our favor anyway.

mistervader

11-12-2013, 01:04 AM

@Mistervader

Sino ka? lol

@Flusterstorm Topic

I guess the only time Swan Song outshines Flusterstorm is during the mirror. I also liked the fact that it could counter a Counterbalance. But usually that matchup is in our favor anyway.

Marcelle Fabie, though since I haven't been active for a long time in Legacy/Vintage, you probably haven't heard of me at all.

That being said, I really did not feel Swan Song would have served me better at any point in my losses where Flusterstorm could not have done just as well.

apple713

11-12-2013, 01:30 AM

@Mistervader

Sino ka? lol

@Flusterstorm Topic

I guess the only time Swan Song outshines Flusterstorm is during the mirror. I also liked the fact that it could counter a Counterbalance. But usually that matchup is in our favor anyway.

i really liked swan song when i played it. I put 1 in my board and 2 main in place of misdirection. Pretty much every time you need to cast it it'll be worth giving up a 2/2 token. It counters bitter blossom and counter balance. Keeps you alive against ant. its a hard counter for 1 blue mana, what more could u ask for?

apple713

11-13-2013, 04:42 AM

tournament report - SWANSONG FTW

Tonight I went 4-0 at a local LGS

round 1 vs esper

G1: drew more S&T and Sneaks than he had answers for till 1 of them claimed me the victory
G2: i couldn't draw a creature to save my life, and he got there with a SoFI
G3: swing with emrakul, with a blood moon in play. He keeps a DRS and has very few outs. We enter some serious top deck mode as I can't find another creature. I do however find a swan song and a Blood moon. Cast blood moon, counter it with swan song, and get there with my 2/2 Bird! yeah thats right SWANSONG FTW...

Round 2 vs Tin fins

G1: I keep a weak hand vs a combo deck and he gets there before I do.
G2: I keep a counter heavy hand and slow roll him till I can safely cast sneak and emrakul.
G3: Both of us sculpt our hands, huge counter war, I win it, and have trouble finding a creature. Match goes to time, I risk a show and tell and he has 1 card in hand. I stick an emrakul but he has 7 permanents, 1 is a swan song token....DOH! He's at 13 life. I'm turn 5 and I spin my Dradle and find a Echoing truth FTW!

round 3 vs Miracles

G1: I'm on the sneak attack plan and wait till i get 5 mana before trying to cast it. He ttys to spell pierce, and i swan song, I win. Next turn i emrakul and crush!
G2: He doesn't draw a SDT and is digging with brainstorms. I find my sneak first and win the counter war. Stick an emrakul and get him to 1.... gosh. He has time to draw outs while i dig for a creature. He casts pithing needle and i counter with spell pierce as he cannot use his fetch to get a land to pay for it. Find a emrakul next turn and win.

round 4 vs UW control (not miracles, scepter chant shenanigans)

G1: mull to 5, risk casting sneak with no back up and get there.
G2: have 3 FOW opening and draw into the combo. S&T an emrakul into play (i had a sneak attack but no other creatures) he has detention sphere. durdle for a turn or two and find another emmy. Sneak the emmy into play and win.

all in all, swan song is really good...its a hard counter and is better in most situations, except when trying to counter a fluster storm. Fortunately fluster storm can't be used to counter a sneak attack.

I'm running jaco's 75 with 2 swan songs main instead of misdirections. I took out the fluster storms from the board and replaced them with 1 swan song and 1 pyroclasm (for a total of 3 pyroclasms)

Also, I'm working on side boarding notes for all the matches. For the ones I don't have maybe y'all could help fill them in.

oarsman

11-13-2013, 03:36 PM

Hi guys. I would like to get some practice in playing Miracles against Sneak&Show tonight. If any of you guys have the deck on magic online and would like to play for a while, go ahead and send me a message either here or on twitch channel oarsman79.

nodahero

11-13-2013, 04:04 PM

If you get any takers on the MODO stream option can you post it here? I would be curious to watch that stream!!

apple713

11-13-2013, 04:22 PM

Sideboard Notes. I've made a collection of notes and sideboard information for my wife when she plays the deck. I figured it has some useful information that might help other players too.

Additionally if anyone has notes to add / questions please ask because I would like to improve these notes if possible. Here is my 75 for reference and then i'll start my notes.

***Match Notes – Watch out for soft counterspells like Spell Pierce and Daze, keep 1-2 mana open when casting sneak attack or show and tell so you will have the extra mana to pay for those counterspells.

***Match Notes – Counter goblin charbelcher, counter any spell that would allow the opponent to get to 4 mana. Counter Seething Song. Once Charbelcher has four mana open, Empty the Warrens becomes live and Force of Will becomes moot. If the Belcher player has five mana in pool and plays a Burning Wish, Force of will that. We should often be able to race goblins unless facing them Turn 1 on the draw, since Griselbrand's lifelink is so good, so another way to go about it would be to ignore anything but the Charbelcher itself. Often the Belcher player will help you out by starting with Land Grant, in which case you can see which plan he's on. You can have her practice the matchup.

***Match Notes: Keep Tormods crypt / relic of progenitus and goblin welder off the table. Destroy or bounce tormods crypt / relic of progenitus in response to grindstone being activated. Remember that Emrakul Shuffles back into your deck when it is put into your graveyard so you don’t lose when he uses grindstone.

Match notes – Only let a him resolve a show and tell if you have a griselbrand to put into play. He will try to cast Enter the infinite / cunning wish and you need to counter those spell or you will lose. Draw cards with griselbrand until you get a counterspell. Try not to tap out during the matchup so you can have mana available to use your counterspells. Through the breach with emrakul is typically better than with griselbrand because it will destroy his lands.

***Match Notes – Avoid Show and tell unless you have a sneak attack to put into play with it, and you can activate sneak attack preferably with an emrakul. Expect opponent to have pithing needles for your sneak attacks, and try to play controlling. Counter reanimate / exhume / animate dead, anything that brings a creature into play from graveyard.

March notes - The *best* configuration for beating Death and Taxes is just playing 3 Blood Moon main deck in the flex slots and Pyroclasms. Watch out for sword to plowshares on your gridelbrand. If he swords to plowshares your griselbrand you can draw cards in response and hopefully find a counterspell. Watch out for karakas. Blood moon makes karakas a mountain. Dont show and tell a creature when he has a karakas in play but you can show and tell a snea attack.

Match Notes: Play conservatively and try not to tap out unless you are going to win. Emrakul is better than Griselbrand because they need at least 4 lands to win. High Tide is a good card to counterspell but so is merchant scroll / turnabout

Match Notes – Sneak Attack and through the breach are better than Show and tell. Counter the Sensei’s Divining Top if you can. Play conservatively and have back up counterspells for your threats. Emrakul is typically better because they need lands. If they use Karakas in response to emrakul’s Attack simply activate sneak attack again and put emrakul back into play and Annihilate for 6.

JACO

11-13-2013, 05:00 PM

@Apple713, great write up. My main deck is the same except for the manabase. Still playing with the sideboard.

How is everyone else sideboarding against RUG Delver specifically? I want to get more opinions. Those seem to be the only decks that I have consistently had any trouble with in tournaments. Either I land a Blood Moon and it's immediately game over, or I never see any sideboard cards and they are able to fend me off with a first turn Delver sometimes.

rxavage

11-13-2013, 06:57 PM

How is everyone else sideboarding against RUG Delver specifically? I want to get more opinions. Those seem to be the only decks that I have consistently had any trouble with in tournaments. Either I land a Blood Moon and it's immediately game over, or I never see any sideboard cards and they are able to fend me off with a first turn Delver sometimes.

Glad I'm not the only one that struggles against RUG. Against RUG, BUG, UGX tempo/midrange I side in 3 Blood Moon and 2 'clasm, seems like if I ever resolve either it's GG. I'm not a fan of Defense Grid but I've never run more than 2, they were never drawn when needed or I'd get an opener with a BM and Grid and Moon always shines.

apple713

11-13-2013, 08:41 PM

@Apple713, great write up. My main deck is the same except for the manabase. Still playing with the sideboard.

How is everyone else sideboarding against RUG Delver specifically? I want to get more opinions. Those seem to be the only decks that I have consistently had any trouble with in tournaments. Either I land a Blood Moon and it's immediately game over, or I never see any sideboard cards and they are able to fend me off with a first turn Delver sometimes.

unfortunately thats kinda how the match goes. t1 delver with a flip puts you in a bind. You need to race cause your running out of time but you also need to play around soft counters. While I have done favorably with my side boarding strategy posted above, i've been tempted to board in pyroclasms. They are really good against delver, non thresh goose, v clique, young pyromancer...everything but goyf really. A well timed pyroclasm can buy you time to find the combo or play around the soft counters.

RUG delver is equatable to what zoo was like 4 years ago. It doesn't really have any bad match ups and is probably like 50% vs the field. A few cards blow it out, punishing fire and blood moon both i think, but they are not common enough to detour people from playing it. It is the roadblock that all decks need to deal with.

My suggestion might be play more blood moon effects since it blows out quite a few decks.

JACO

11-13-2013, 09:32 PM

Well I used to play Blood Moons main (see my Madison report from mid-last year http://www.eternalcentral.com/scg-madison-top-16-report-sneak-and-bargain/), and that was pretty sweet. I'm rolling 3-4 Blood Moons in the sideboard now, and think I will probably just board Blood Moon + REB again RUG. REB is a essentially a hard counter as well as a way to kill fast Delvers, and any time I've boarded in Pyroclasm against RUG I've regretted it. Defense Grid has been good the very few times I've actually drawn it when needed, but I rarely see it when I need it, even when boarding in 3 copies.

Another card that may be worth revisiting at some point is Overmaster. It cantrips and can't be REBed. Pretty limited in scope, but very powerful.

lordofthepit

11-13-2013, 10:42 PM

Glad I'm not the only one that struggles against RUG. Against RUG, BUG, UGX tempo/midrange I side in 3 Blood Moon and 2 'clasm, seems like if I ever resolve either it's GG. I'm not a fan of Defense Grid but I've never run more than 2, they were never drawn when needed or I'd get an opener with a BM and Grid and Moon always shines.

RUG Delver is the nightmare matchup for me. I don't play this deck a whole lot, but I'm 0-5 against RUG Delver and 15-2 against everything else (excluding concessions and IDs). It's a small sample size and the skill level of opposing pilots vary, but the difference is striking.

apple713

11-13-2013, 11:25 PM

Well I used to play Blood Moons main (see my Madison report from mid-last year http://www.eternalcentral.com/scg-madison-top-16-report-sneak-and-bargain/), and that was pretty sweet. I'm rolling 3-4 Blood Moons in the sideboard now, and think I will probably just board Blood Moon + REB again RUG. REB is a essentially a hard counter as well as a way to kill fast Delvers, and any time I've boarded in Pyroclasm against RUG I've regretted it. Defense Grid has been good the very few times I've actually drawn it when needed, but I rarely see it when I need it, even when boarding in 3 copies.

Another card that may be worth revisiting at some point is Overmaster. It cantrips and can't be REBed. Pretty limited in scope, but very powerful.

over master being limited to show and tell only makes it probably not worth it. Its one of the reasons i ended up cutting boseiju from my board.

JPA

11-14-2013, 07:07 AM

I think the Tempo-matchup is certainly one of the more difficult ones, but still pretty even. Pyroclasm is pretty bad against RUG, but I like boarding them against UWR and Grixis, since it hits all of their threats.

Defense Grid is definitely better than Blood Moon against URx-Tempo. They usually try to keep hands with one cc1-threat and counters, so Blood Moon often comes down too late. It "only" stops Flusterstorm, Pierce, Stifle and Daze (and more threats, of course), while Defense Grid turns off FoW and REB as well as their other counters.
Of course, Blood Moon can still be a bomb and end the game right away, but if you have problems with the Tempo-matchup, I would play more Defense Grids.

I will post my sideboard-plans later this weekend, gonna play in the bi-annual Magiccardmarket-Tournament this saturday. Last time I played the mirror against GP-Strasbourg-Top8-competitor and friend of mine Christopher Brunner in the finals - and lost 0-2. :laugh:

morpheus31

11-14-2013, 01:32 PM

Hi,
Its my first time on this forum so here goes.

I'll be playing sneak and show at the GP and was wondering if anyone can link me to detailed primers regarding the deck and MUs. Any feedback would be helpful.

Here are some questions I have. I have come up with some answers that are based off of theory and less on playtesting although I've done some of that too.

How can we make the death and taxes MU better?
My answer: Blood moons, wipe aways and pyroclasms. Blood moons are pretty obvious since Karakas, ports and wastelands are annoying. Wipe aways clears a mom out the way so I can clasm their board. It can bounce an o-ring which also seems sweet. Clasm is obvious but its less good if they have mom. Is anarchy at all playable if I'm super worried about it? It seems like casting a 4 mana spell would be rough but it gets around mom...It certainly seems sweet if we played an early blood moon. Am I missing anything.

Sensi's divining top, intuition, pre ordain and/or gitaxian probe? I haven't seen top in many lists until just now. I've been playing preordain, intuition and probes. Probes are whatever but figure I might need the training wheels but am 50/50 on cutting them for good cards. The one of intuition has been super sweet. I'm considering playing another one. In sb games its been especially awesome since eot intuition allows getting defense grid vs the MUs I've wanted them in or just getting 3 tombs. Its a little slow but having access to an instant tutor seems awesome. Preordain has been good and bad. Clearly the worse of the cantrips. How is divinig top? It seems like drawing 2 would be bad and can be a liability vs needle effects (although maybe thats a trap to needle our top), but with the colorless land we produce and all the shuffle effects i can see the upside.

Counter spell suit. Forces seem non negotiable (certainly can be deboarded) but spell pierce, flusterstorms, daze and swan song all have their merrits and downside. I've been unimpressed by spell pierce. It seems like my opponents have been able to play around it when I'm protecting the combo and using it to counter what they are doing as a proactive measure is usually what I don't want to be doing(unless the mu has no good targets usually or its a card that is somewhat proactive anyway like aether vial but I digress). Pierce is probably better vs the tempo decks since they tap out and usally only have 1 or 2 mana open anyway. Swan song seems strongest in the mirror but worse vs tempo decks. Daze seems like low impact but its free-ish. flusterstorm is narrow but real good vs combo and in fow battles.

Threats:
The 8 main threats are insane but is there anything worth considering if I'm specifically worried about certain MUs like taxes, the mirror or tempo decks?

Leyline of sanctity:
seems pretty good vs discard, tendrils and belcher decks. I hate that you can't cast it but maybe its so good you have to play it. Thoughts?

I'll be playing sneak and show at the GP and was wondering if anyone can link me to detailed primers regarding the deck and MUs. Any feedback would be helpful.

Here are some questions I have. I have come up with some answers that are based off of theory and less on playtesting although I've done some of that too.

How can we make the death and taxes MU better?
My answer: Blood moons, wipe aways and pyroclasms. Blood moons are pretty obvious since Karakas, ports and wastelands are annoying. Wipe aways clears a mom out the way so I can clasm their board. It can bounce an o-ring which also seems sweet. Clasm is obvious but its less good if they have mom. Is anarchy at all playable if I'm super worried about it? It seems like casting a 4 mana spell would be rough but it gets around mom...It certainly seems sweet if we played an early blood moon. Am I missing anything.

Sensi's divining top, intuition, pre ordain and/or gitaxian probe? I haven't seen top in many lists until just now. I've been playing preordain, intuition and probes. Probes are whatever but figure I might need the training wheels but am 50/50 on cutting them for good cards. The one of intuition has been super sweet. I'm considering playing another one. In sb games its been especially awesome since eot intuition allows getting defense grid vs the MUs I've wanted them in or just getting 3 tombs. Its a little slow but having access to an instant tutor seems awesome. Preordain has been good and bad. Clearly the worse of the cantrips. How is divinig top? It seems like drawing 2 would be bad and can be a liability vs needle effects (although maybe thats a trap to needle our top), but with the colorless land we produce and all the shuffle effects i can see the upside.

Counter spell suit. Forces seem non negotiable (certainly can be deboarded) but spell pierce, flusterstorms, daze and swan song all have their merrits and downside. I've been unimpressed by spell pierce. It seems like my opponents have been able to play around it when I'm protecting the combo and using it to counter what they are doing as a proactive measure is usually what I don't want to be doing(unless the mu has no good targets usually or its a card that is somewhat proactive anyway like aether vial but I digress). Pierce is probably better vs the tempo decks since they tap out and usally only have 1 or 2 mana open anyway. Swan song seems strongest in the mirror but worse vs tempo decks. Daze seems like low impact but its free-ish. flusterstorm is narrow but real good vs combo and in fow battles.

Threats:
The 8 main threats are insane but is there anything worth considering if I'm specifically worried about certain MUs like taxes, the mirror or tempo decks?

Leyline of sanctity:
seems pretty good vs discard, tendrils and belcher decks. I hate that you can't cast it but maybe its so good you have to play it. Thoughts?

death and taxes: the deck was before not so represented so I just sidded in 4 pyroclasm and 2 echoing. Now with more karakas.deck in the meta I have changed 2 pyroclams for 3 progenitus. Its easy to get show and tell + progenitus and it gets beyond all of his hate. An with still 2 pyroclams anad 2 echoing is easy to race. blood moon is also fine but you need blood moon + enabler + guy and can still lose to mangara or something like that. I think proegnitus is the way to go.

intuition is nice, but in a so heavy discard format is sensei better. Problem is that since surgical was ut I played everytime less intuition because evey random guy can just surgical ur search. Before I only did it vs black decks but now with colorless extirpate is not right.

the countersuit I play is weird: 1 misdirection 3 fluster 2 swangsong 4 fow. I have test and it worked the best. Pierce was bad cause they always payed for it and now with so much show and tell and ant in the format song and fluster are nuts.

I tested lyeline 4 events long and It was really bad, or u just blank 2 of his cards and they brainstorm it away, or u draw it late or so. With my couunter suite un can just outrace discard until u have the combo and win. Even vs belcher u need a fow nothing else and its not a real deck in the meta to worry about. and vs storm they always side in 2 chains of vapor so with them and xxantids they can just combo out and win. Sense + counters is better tan drawing into 4 blanks.

here is the deck im going to run this weekend in a big event in my city:

It has given great result giving me and my friends playing my list high number of tops and wins this last 5 months.

Then I have to make a mix of 3 cards of here for the deck to complete (right now i think it will be 2 boseiju + 1pyroblast) but im nt 100% sure, I have many options.

1-2 throug the breach (I dont like this card, only vs reanimator wich is a pairing that almost non exists since death rite and ur gonna lose if u dont side in a lot of cards so I just scoop to reanimator, in the miror my better counter suite and show and tell+ sneak + emrakul with bosiju gets there 90% of time)
1-2 boseiju who selters all
1 pyroclams
1 pyroblast

A problema with my list is that I dont have enought cards to sidin vs taxes (my sb plans are in the last 4 sites)
I would side out:
3 fluster
1 misdi
2 song
4 griselbrand

for;
3 progenitus
2 clasm
2 echoing

but thats not enought
may be letting the songs and one Grisel or sth like that.
if i side more clasm or thought the breach its easier cause i can just slam them in. but until...

that are my thoughts on all.

may be the correct configuration for the ones playing this weekend the gp is:

3 pyroblast
3 progenitus
3 grid
2 pyroclams
2 breach
2 echoing

just my thoughts, the thing is here show and tell is pupullar and also miracles and my boseiju is nuts vs miracles and good vs all other blue decks.

thx

morpheus31

11-14-2013, 04:28 PM

from my thoughts and experiences I woudl do the following:

death and taxes: the deck was before not so represented so I just sidded in 4 pyroclasm and 2 echoing. Now with more karakas.deck in the meta I have changed 2 pyroclams for 3 progenitus. Its easy to get show and tell + progenitus and it gets beyond all of his hate. An with still 2 pyroclams anad 2 echoing is easy to race. blood moon is also fine but you need blood moon + enabler + guy and can still lose to mangara or something like that. I think proegnitus is the way to go.

intuition is nice, but in a so heavy discard format is sensei better. Problem is that since surgical was ut I played everytime less intuition because evey random guy can just surgical ur search. Before I only did it vs black decks but now with colorless extirpate is not right.

the countersuit I play is weird: 1 misdirection 3 fluster 2 swangsong 4 fow. I have test and it worked the best. Pierce was bad cause they always payed for it and now with so much show and tell and ant in the format song and fluster are nuts.

I tested lyeline 4 events long and It was really bad, or u just blank 2 of his cards and they brainstorm it away, or u draw it late or so. With my couunter suite un can just outrace discard until u have the combo and win. Even vs belcher u need a fow nothing else and its not a real deck in the meta to worry about. and vs storm they always side in 2 chains of vapor so with them and xxantids they can just combo out and win. Sense + counters is better tan drawing into 4 blanks.

here is the deck im going to run this weekend in a big event in my city:

It has given great result giving me and my friends playing my list high number of tops and wins this last 5 months.

Then I have to make a mix of 3 cards of here for the deck to complete (right now i think it will be 2 boseiju + 1pyroblast) but im nt 100% sure, I have many options.

1-2 throug the breach (I dont like this card, only vs reanimator wich is a pairing that almost non exists since death rite and ur gonna lose if u dont side in a lot of cards so I just scoop to reanimator, in the miror my better counter suite and show and tell+ sneak + emrakul with bosiju gets there 90% of time)
1-2 boseiju who selters all
1 pyroclams
1 pyroblast

A problema with my list is that I dont have enought cards to sidin vs taxes (my sb plans are in the last 4 sites)
I would side out:
3 fluster
1 misdi
2 song
4 griselbrand

for;
3 progenitus
2 clasm
2 echoing

but thats not enought
may be letting the songs and one Grisel or sth like that.
if i side more clasm or thought the breach its easier cause i can just slam them in. but until...

that are my thoughts on all.

may be the correct configuration for the ones playing this weekend the gp is:

3 pyroblast
3 progenitus
3 grid
2 pyroclams
2 breach
2 echoing

just my thoughts, the thing is here show and tell is pupullar and also miracles and my boseiju is nuts vs miracles and good vs all other blue decks.

thx

Thanks for your input.

I expect there to be a lot of blue tempo(rug and wur), true name/stoneforge decks and combo decks(tendrals, elves and sneak). I think I'll have to beat taxes to win the tournament too. I might have to beat miracles but its an afterthought. I want versatility in my sb so I'm not sure about the progenitus since its only really good vs taxes. Probably good vs u/w and u/w/r. It doesn't work well with sneak either.

Your point about intuition is valid- I hadn't thought about it even though I tested stone blade and death blade with tnn. It seems only relevant in game 2 situations where you a) draw intuition and b)they have extraction. That certainly could happen especially if people are playing snapcaster extraction decks- which is a thing. Also people going rougue is a thing and a popular strategy is discard plus extraction.

Flusters and swans are pretty sweet. They don't counter planes walkers and articats which is my worry. Jace, liliana, aether vial and LED(not sure how much this one matters) are things. I do like flusterstorm a lot and will try to play 2 in my 75 at least. Swan song is fine. Good in the mirror so there's that.

Boseiju seems sweet vs miracles but again such a specific thing is cool when you expect a ton of things. I'll be playing like 14 rounds so I need to get max value from my sb.

Have you tested wipe away? not sure its better than echoing. Echoing kills goblins from empty and possibly bounces 2 hate bears or whatever but wipe away can get through a mom, counters after a guy gets o ringed and in the mirror if your opponent passes priority it can be a beating. The fact that it costs 3 and is double blue stinks so I'm not sure. It might be ambitious to want wipe away through a blood moon so I think that really does it to me.

Thanks again! Good luck this weekend.

Togores

11-14-2013, 05:28 PM

I have played wipe away for a long time. Vs death and taxes is not so good but for example vs goblins is better echoing to just time walk you.

you can bounce double pithing needle or so. And also bounce tokens vs belcher or dredge.

vs infernal tutor deck wipe away is cool tu just bounce a land in response to the infernal but nothing else.

I like echoing because vs counter decks when i side it in i usualy side also boseiju so its good.

mulder

11-15-2013, 09:21 AM

Why would you side out Griselbrand instead of Emrakul? They both die to Mangara, Karakas and Oblivion Ring but at least Griselbrand draws you a load of cards in the process... .

Togores

11-15-2013, 09:36 AM

Emrakul gats with sneak atack over karakas.
And griselbrand. Being in the race vs a agro deck with mana denial can u make not draw. Or die in his turn if you draw. So i think its the worst one.

JPA

11-17-2013, 04:54 AM

Huey didn't make day 2. :frown:

Let's all root for Chas Hinkle at 9-0 now!

Btw, why were we moved to Established Decks if we are at 5th place in the ranking?

Jared Boettcher moves on to the finals of GPDC after 13-1-1 in the Swiss (losing to Craig Wescoe's Death and Taxes in round 4), and 2-0 vs Esper Blade in the Quarterfinals, 2-1 vs Dredge in the Semis.

Good luck to him!

blindspotxxx

11-17-2013, 10:25 PM

We are 2nd place on the GP with Jared Boettcher using Sneak Show with Gitaxian Probes. It's the same Starcity list but it swaps 1 Gitaxian Probe for an Intuition.

apple713

11-17-2013, 11:11 PM

after todays GP performance, is anyone convinced that probe deserves a main deck slot?

i play 1 swan song and 3 tops in its place. i've been much happier with my tops

JPA

11-18-2013, 05:22 AM

Boettcher's List was obviously the perfect one for that Grand Prix. I think Probes are needed right now, especially with 10 % Death and Taxes in the metagame.

Funny note: Jared Boettcher's performance actually was the best in the history of the deck. :cool: Korey Age and Christopher Brunner Top 8ed a GP with Sneak and Show as well, but both lost in the Quarterfinals right away.

Togores

11-18-2013, 07:53 AM

Was nice that sneak atack got 2nd. The second game it was so frustrating his opponent got 3 forcé of will without cantrips in 8 turns. I dont belive how ppl can draw fows so much :(

I played here in Spain my list in a big event end got top 4.

1st round elves.
g1 He didnt glimpse me and emrakul with sneak goes there.
g2 I have petal, swansong, tomb, ponder, fetch, show and tell and one more card. I just go ponder into the guy petal go. He makes something i counter and show and tell for game.

2nd round pox wb
g1 He gets a game loss cause of deck list.
g2 I mull and get petal, city, fetch, griselbrand, show and tell, ponder. If I start its game but he starts into seize and get show and tell. I just go ponder find another, he goes confi, and turn 2 I show and tell. He shows and plays Liliana I draw 14 but no fow but I get mana to sneka emrakul next turn for game.

3rd round but standstill
g1 I show and tell turn 5 a griselbrand after he beated me with a goyf. He searches with his sdt and finds jace. I draw 7 but cant forcé it cause if I do he kill me with that life point. I go to try sneak atack but he got another fow.
g2 He has just wasteldn top go. I play land cantrip. He didnt gets 2nd land so I feel he should have 2 fows in hand. then i play boseiju into his wasteland to get him off mana and next turn he finds a land and wastes the boseiju. After some attempts I combo out.
g3 I dont remember, think I Just killed him without much response apart for his 2 goyfs and a wasteland on my boseiju.

4th black White hate with Green splash with 3 humility main (It’s a friend and I saw a humility at the end of other round but thought was 1off side deck).
1st game he put pressure discard and a wasteland and karakas on field never let me do a lot.
2nd game He seizes me and sees swan song so he can’t play the humility. So I have echoing, 4 mana, sneak, emrakul, and show and tell along of the song. I think a lot of his 4 manas and the best option is go sneak and pass. If he makes humility or o ring I just bounce and kill him. And so he has to tap out for mana an this plan only loses to krossan and so which I don’t think he plays. He plays something then I bounce and kill him with emrakul.
3rd game I just go into turn 3 sneka atack griselbrand after brainstorming to get along his therapy and win.

5th round ID vs esper
We played like 8 vintage games there because the next day was also big vintage event.

6th round ID vs taxes
I can ID and top but he can get out of top I the last one wins and get better tiebreak. But he was 1st of his points so I manage to convince him. I didn’t really care to play; my progenitus would just have destroyed him. But anyway: D

Top 8 vs omnitell
g1 I just sit there plying land with my hand of 2 fluster, fow, blue card, swansong, griselbrand and sneak attack. Discard cards a few turns and so. I just wait for him to go off. If I lose the counter vs his show and tell I just draw 14 with griselbrand and gg. He starts on turn x. I play song, fow, fluster. And he has no more counters. So next turn I just go sneka attack with fluster back row and win.
g2 I have a similar hand. With sdt I find boseiju and I know he has to go of in fear of the thought the breach I don’t play. I let him resolve show and tell after 2 counters on it with only 3 cards in his hand and I still have fow and fluster. I get griselbrand and one of the 2 cards in his hand is wipe away which just bounces my guy. Then the last one is obv enter the infinite and I just go fluste and win.

Was not nice having not having thou the breach because i sided out all 4 show and tells. But I know even so I just was 85% wining. Cause I can just go boseiju into fow a few times and win. Because all my counters are hard counters vs them and not like spell pierce.

Top 4 vs my future team matee in Barcelona sealed team with counterbalance.
He is better player and I know He plays fluster main, lots of rebs, vendilion and so.
g1 he has sdt. I play show and tell having sneak attack backup. he forces I forcé he flusters. Then he plays in my mp vendilion knowing he has no more counters But i lose my sneak for drawing a land and 2nd emrakul. Then he plays next turn batterskull. He still draws no counters but I don’t get any enablers so I lose.
g2 I have 1show and tell, 3 sneak and the guy and lands. my plan is to sculpt my hand vs his slow deck. but he goes turn 3 into sulfur elements wich get me a lighning each turn. So I have to move. Show and tell -> reb, Sneak atack-> pierce-> fow ->his fow. Sneak atack-> fow.3rd and last sneak attack on 5 lives ->3rd fow. Next turn I draw a land and scoope at 2 lives to die vs his elemental.

Get top 4. Pick up my prices and get to a friend’s house to play 1996 vintage and a little of normal vintage.

Jared Boettcher wins the SCG Legacy Open in Providence undefeated and now has a record of 25-2-3 with Sneak & Show over the course of two tournaments. :cool:

blindspotxxx

11-25-2013, 09:00 AM

I'm gonna try out his list soon :) It looks effective!

Togores

11-27-2013, 07:56 PM

Was nice that sneak atack got 2nd. The second game it was so frustrating his opponent got 3 forcé of will without cantrips in 8 turns. I dont belive how ppl can draw fows so much :(

I played here in Spain my list in a big event end got top 4.

1st round elves.
g1 He didnt glimpse me and emrakul with sneak goes there.
g2 I have petal, swansong, tomb, ponder, fetch, show and tell and one more card. I just go ponder into the guy petal go. He makes something i counter and show and tell for game.

2nd round pox wb
g1 He gets a game loss cause of deck list.
g2 I mull and get petal, city, fetch, griselbrand, show and tell, ponder. If I start its game but he starts into seize and get show and tell. I just go ponder find another, he goes confi, and turn 2 I show and tell. He shows and plays Liliana I draw 14 but no fow but I get mana to sneka emrakul next turn for game.

3rd round but standstill
g1 I show and tell turn 5 a griselbrand after he beated me with a goyf. He searches with his sdt and finds jace. I draw 7 but cant forcé it cause if I do he kill me with that life point. I go to try sneak atack but he got another fow.
g2 He has just wasteldn top go. I play land cantrip. He didnt gets 2nd land so I feel he should have 2 fows in hand. then i play boseiju into his wasteland to get him off mana and next turn he finds a land and wastes the boseiju. After some attempts I combo out.
g3 I dont remember, think I Just killed him without much response apart for his 2 goyfs and a wasteland on my boseiju.

4th black White hate with Green splash with 3 humility main (It’s a friend and I saw a humility at the end of other round but thought was 1off side deck).
1st game he put pressure discard and a wasteland and karakas on field never let me do a lot.
2nd game He seizes me and sees swan song so he can’t play the humility. So I have echoing, 4 mana, sneak, emrakul, and show and tell along of the song. I think a lot of his 4 manas and the best option is go sneak and pass. If he makes humility or o ring I just bounce and kill him. And so he has to tap out for mana an this plan only loses to krossan and so which I don’t think he plays. He plays something then I bounce and kill him with emrakul.
3rd game I just go into turn 3 sneka atack griselbrand after brainstorming to get along his therapy and win.

5th round ID vs esper
We played like 8 vintage games there because the next day was also big vintage event.

6th round ID vs taxes
I can ID and top but he can get out of top I the last one wins and get better tiebreak. But he was 1st of his points so I manage to convince him. I didn’t really care to play; my progenitus would just have destroyed him. But anyway: D

Top 8 vs omnitell
g1 I just sit there plying land with my hand of 2 fluster, fow, blue card, swansong, griselbrand and sneak attack. Discard cards a few turns and so. I just wait for him to go off. If I lose the counter vs his show and tell I just draw 14 with griselbrand and gg. He starts on turn x. I play song, fow, fluster. And he has no more counters. So next turn I just go sneka attack with fluster back row and win.
g2 I have a similar hand. With sdt I find boseiju and I know he has to go of in fear of the thought the breach I don’t play. I let him resolve show and tell after 2 counters on it with only 3 cards in his hand and I still have fow and fluster. I get griselbrand and one of the 2 cards in his hand is wipe away which just bounces my guy. Then the last one is obv enter the infinite and I just go fluste and win.

Was not nice having not having thou the breach because i sided out all 4 show and tells. But I know even so I just was 85% wining. Cause I can just go boseiju into fow a few times and win. Because all my counters are hard counters vs them and not like spell pierce.

Top 4 vs my future team matee in Barcelona sealed team with counterbalance.
He is better player and I know He plays fluster main, lots of rebs, vendilion and so.
g1 he has sdt. I play show and tell having sneak attack backup. he forces I forcé he flusters. Then he plays in my mp vendilion knowing he has no more counters But i lose my sneak for drawing a land and 2nd emrakul. Then he plays next turn batterskull. He still draws no counters but I don’t get any enablers so I lose.
g2 I have 1show and tell, 3 sneak and the guy and lands. my plan is to sculpt my hand vs his slow deck. but he goes turn 3 into sulfur elements wich get me a lighning each turn. So I have to move. Show and tell -> reb, Sneak atack-> pierce-> fow ->his fow. Sneak atack-> fow.3rd and last sneak attack on 5 lives ->3rd fow. Next turn I draw a land and scoope at 2 lives to die vs his elemental.

Get top 4. Pick up my prices and get to a friend’s house to play 1996 vintage and a little of normal vintage.

I finaly got the FBB volcanics I wanted for so long and now except the citys of traitor wich should be japanese all my deck is as pimp as I want it to be.
So here are pics of the deck I used at the event, Sorry but im in love with it so I needed to share :D

http://i.imgur.com/5swWVPj.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/094p25E.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/WZNMUeZ.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/BAIzL0c.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/VoDheHa.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/0PfPe3a.jpg

BlackPurple

11-27-2013, 10:58 PM

Very nice deck, awesome. Just hoping for your sake that SaT doesn't get banned :tongue:

JPA

11-28-2013, 07:45 PM

Beautiful Deck Rodrigo, thx for sharing!

apple713

11-28-2013, 10:35 PM

Very nice deck, awesome. Just hoping for your sake that SaT doesn't get banned :tongue:

Not until they print " when ~ wnters the battlefield you wim the game"

Reason being is because the deck isnt warping the format.

Secretly.A.Bee

11-29-2013, 12:36 AM

So how is sneak and show's matchup vs DeathBlade? I've been looking and I can't seem to find anything on the matchup.

Sent from my SM-N900V using Tapatalk

Togores

11-29-2013, 01:33 AM

I usualy crush them easy.
They just play discard and a few counters. Before I played progenitus I played 4 pyroclasm. So I usualy just sided in4 clasm for 4 petals and gg.
U kill his board and win from there.

BlackPurple

11-29-2013, 01:40 AM

Not until they print " when ~ wnters the battlefield you wim the game"

Reason being is because the deck isnt warping the format.

Just hoping you're right. Love this deck so much.

koba

11-29-2013, 07:05 AM

So how is sneak and show's matchup vs DeathBlade? I've been looking and I can't seem to find anything on the matchup.

Sent from my SM-N900V using Tapatalk

Preside, sneak show is in the advantage. After sideboarding, it depends, but it definitely gets worse and I would not describe the overall matchup as easy.

Some death blade decks bring in more than half of their sideboard. The combination of meddling mage, sword of feast and famine, discard and counters makes it a very challenging matchup in my experience.

JPA

11-29-2013, 08:44 AM

Jared demolished Bertoncini's Deathblade in the finals of SCG Providence. It is a very positive matchup; they have small bits of every disruption type post-board, but it's all easily manageable.
They are also much more vulnerable to an early Blood Moon than Esper Blade (which plays 4 basics).

The reason Show and Tell won't ge banned for now is that Jared (and Huey in the past) is the only one rocking the deck through every tournament he plays it in.
The rest of the Top 8/16 is always very well-rounded, since the fear of Sneak&Show hate and the aversion to non-interactive stomps prevents people from playing it. If the % of S&T players gets closer to 10, maybe we can talk about a ban again. For now, 4 copies of Show and Tell in the Top 8 of every big tournament won't be enough.

Griselpuff

11-29-2013, 08:58 AM

There are actually a fair number of people playing the deck now, yet it still doesn't do well because it has a tendency to crap on itself.

I don't really understand how some people manage to have such consistent finishes with it. I played it for a while and I did quite well with the deck, but there were definitely a significant percentage of games where I lost due to no fault of my own.

apple713

11-29-2013, 10:13 AM

There are actually a fair number of people playing the deck now, yet it still doesn't do well because it has a tendency to crap on itself.

I don't really understand how some people manage to have such consistent finishes with it. I played it for a while and I did quite well with the deck, but there were definitely a significant percentage of games where I lost due to no fault of my own.

The deck is amazing. Sensei's diving top actually fixes a lot of the so called "crapping on itself". Additionally, i've found that 90% of the games i lose there was something that I could have done to win the game. Some were unforeseeable at the time but still. The deck has everything it needs. Its not really dead to anything, but the skill of the pilot is its limiting factor. Sure a clown can win a fair amount of games but a very good player can really take harness its power.

i've found that it loses matches where it has a decent chance of winning but opponent gets all of the answers they need and the scales tip in their favor. There is a luck aspect to the game, however this deck has, in my opinion, more potential and better match ups than the other decks in the format.

Consider the following.

It has fairly good match ups against other combo decks, with reanimator being the exception
even with a chalice on 1 none of its combo pieces are hurt
It has a really good matchup against most aggro decks
it is pretty much immune to grindstone / painter.
The hardest decks to fight through are miracles / RUG and its because they are good decks. Good decks require skill to beat, and luck.
It's a 2 card combo that has 43% chance of getting both combo pieces in its opener and a 62% chance of getting them after 1 brainstorm/ponder. After 1 turn and 2 brainstorm/ponders/SDT you would have seen 14 cards and that raises your chances to 80%.

Theres not really any other deck that can tout those numbers, except maybe dark depths due to crop rotation.

menace13

11-29-2013, 02:07 PM

There are actually a fair number of people playing the deck now, yet it still doesn't do well because it has a tendency to crap on itself.

I don't really understand how some people manage to have such consistent finishes with it. I played it for a while and I did quite well with the deck, but there were definitely a significant percentage of games where I lost due to no fault of my own.

It can just durdle from having not found 2nd part of its combo.

but the deck is playing a different game of magic than most other decks. It doesn't play out non land permanents incrementally. It holds its parts on top of the deck or in hand until it's ready to win. It has less design restrictions than storm and doesnt need to chain its spells. The deck can play any fucking card it wants and call it a day.

You take a look at common decks in Legacy you can notice a mana curve from turns 1 to 4 getting increasingly stronger as it progresses. Or lots of cheap threats and tons of disruption in tempo. Those decks have many points of attack where just stopping/not drawing one isn't going to render the deck helpless. At the same time these decks must trade resources against other deck's answers/threats to edge out the other. Show and Tell ignores all that and just herps an immediate game winner on to the board.

Sure, it may not have the methodic consistant flow of threats/answers every turn. But it trades that for being able to maneuver and make any play a game winning play.

atopebenidorm

11-30-2013, 02:12 PM

Why anybody plays 2-3 copies of stronghold gambit? I think is a real good card. With gitaxian probe rules!.