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Left of the dial.

People need to understand that this is a robust opinion based forum and not a blog, corner soapbox, or an echo chamber from where your views will go unchallenged if people have a different world view. This place would be much worse if we all ran away from any post that he didn't agree with so as not to rock the forum boat.

Be it football related or otherwise, post bollocks and we should all expect to be called on it. However, how we handle any counter view to our own tends to speak volumes.

All Australian

People need to understand that this is a robust opinion based forum and not a blog, corner soapbox, or an echo chamber from where your views will go unchallenged if people have a different world view. This place would be much worse if we all ran away from any post that he didn't agree with so as not to rock the forum boat.

Be it football related or otherwise, post bollocks and we should all expect to be called on it. However, how we handle any counter view to our own tends to speak volumes.

It's entirely fine to have a different opinion to others, the important part is backing it up with reasoning.
People need to stop melting down and saying "OMG JONG/HONEY/WEBB ARE ON OUR LIST, WE ARE A BOTTOM 4 SIDE THE SKY IS FALLING" then presenting absolutely no meaningful discussion behind why they hold these thoughts. You can have different views on things, but at least give something along with it instead of flooding the forum with negativity and never contributing anything that even slightly resembles actual discussion (the entire purpose of an online forum)

Senior List

People need to understand that this is a robust opinion based forum and not a blog, corner soapbox, or an echo chamber from where your views will go unchallenged if people have a different world view. This place would be much worse if we all ran away from any post that he didn't agree with so as not to rock the forum boat.

Be it football related or otherwise, post bollocks and we should all expect to be called on it. However, how we handle any counter view to our own tends to speak volumes.

If this forum was full of people robustly discussing their football opinions and engaging in good-faith discussion without the sideshows that are currently always going on, I would have no problem with it at all. I just think that a welcoming and respectful forum would encourage more posters to post, which would then actually increase the quality of the discourse, with more different views being expressed on more different topics, and help prevent it turning into an echo chamber of any kind. A lot of the "challenges" on here read as personal and not a part of any genuine discussion at all.

All Australian

If this forum was full of people robustly discussing their football opinions and engaging in good-faith discussion without the sideshows that are currently always going on, I would have no problem with it at all. I just think that a welcoming and respectful forum would encourage more posters to post, which would then actually increase the quality of the discourse, with more different views being expressed on more different topics, and help prevent it turning into an echo chamber of any kind. A lot of the "challenges" on here read as personal and not a part of any genuine discussion at all.

There is a spectrum to this. Some users offer alternative viewpoints on topics, others just sling abuse and then cry when called out. If we kept the discussion to the actual footy itself, and offered genuine reasoning behind our opinions, then I doubt there'd be so many issues. When most of the problems end up stemming from a small handful of users, who then try play victim, you just need to look at their posting habits to figure out the issues. Most of them tend to do exactly the same thing and offer very little actual input outside of pointless arguments or preaching that the sky is falling

Senior List

There is a spectrum to this. Some users offer alternative viewpoints on topics, others just sling abuse and then cry when called out. If we kept the discussion to the actual footy itself, and offered genuine reasoning behind our opinions, then I doubt there'd be so many issues. When most of the problems end up stemming from a small handful of users, who then try play victim, you just need to look at their posting habits to figure out the issues. Most of them tend to do exactly the same thing and offer very little actual input outside of pointless arguments or preaching that the sky is falling

Yeah, I agree 100%. There are posters who cause regular problems, and I don't see that they'll ever voluntarily stop doing it, so then the question is how much is everyone else going to get sucked into the whole affair. There's an element where awful behaviour needs to be challenged, but there's also an element of not sinking the level of discourse down to its lowest common denominator and just constantly fuelling the fire. If these posters aren't breaking any rules by doing what they're doing, which it seems they're not, then it falls on everyone else to stop letting them have so much of an influence. It's just a bad situation all round, and unlike the OP of this thread, I'm not optimistic.

I guess to put my money where my mouth is, the right thing for me to do would be to start posting and practising what I preach, and when the season comes around and there's actual football to talk about, I guess I'll try to do that. Be the change you want to see, and so on.

All Australian

Yeah, I agree 100%. There are posters who cause regular problems, and I don't see that they'll ever voluntarily stop doing it, so then the question is how much is everyone else going to get sucked into the whole affair. There's an element where awful behaviour needs to be challenged, but there's also an element of not sinking the level of discourse down to its lowest common denominator and just constantly fuelling the fire. If these posters aren't breaking any rules by doing what they're doing, which it seems they're not, then it falls on everyone else to stop letting them have so much of an influence. It's just a bad situation all round, and unlike the OP of this thread, I'm not optimistic.

I guess to put my money where my mouth is, the right thing for me to do would be to start posting and practising what I preach, and when the season comes around and there's actual football to talk about, I guess I'll try to do that. Be the change you want to see, and so on.

Yeah. Step One of this process would be to set a number of people to 'ignore'. I did this with one particular user a while ago and immediately noticed a significant improvement in the quality of content on here, just because his crap wasn't dragging everything down. It does seem I need to add a few more to that list though, and encourage others to do the same if we want to see change. Mods (rightly or wrongly) obviously don't view these people as rule-breakers, so nothing will change from that perspective

I'd be interested to see where in the thread people have been posting disrespectfully about our players, which is the topic of the OP. It's become a wider conversation afterwards, but the OP as I read it is about the way posters talk about our players on the forum.

I do agree with your earlier post about people exaggerating or misstating comments others have made, I don't think that kind of tit for tat kind of stuff helps anyone here. There seems to be an entire minigame on this forum about you, and although it was born in some things you've said that I think are shitty and you do seem to relish it, it's not just you who perpetuates it and it's definitely not just you I was talking about in my post. I think lots of people have an impulse to always be for point-scoring, and speaking for myself it's tiresome to read whenever it pops up.

If anything I've said is wrong or you think is against the ideals of the thread, let me know and I'm happy to respond to it.

Brownlow Medallist

I'd be interested to see where in the thread people have been posting disrespectfully about our players, which is the topic of the OP. It's become a wider conversation afterwards, but the OP as I read it is about the way posters talk about our players on the forum.

I do agree with your earlier post about people exaggerating or misstating comments others have made, I don't think that kind of tit for tat kind of stuff helps anyone here. There seems to be an entire minigame on this forum about you, and although it was born in some things you've said that I think are shitty and you do seem to relish it, it's not just you who perpetuates it and it's definitely not just you I was talking about in my post. I think lots of people have an impulse to always be for point-scoring, and speaking for myself it's tiresome to read whenever it pops up.

If anything I've said is wrong or you think is against the ideals of the thread, let me know and I'm happy to respond to it.

I don’t filter it and I don’t care what others think. I do not write it to deliberately bother people although I am very aware in today’s PC world it will but again that is not my problem.

I’m abused more than anyone in here, and rightly so, but if people could see the Pms I get and the fact that one poster on here actually went to the trouble of tracking me down to my home address and phone number and posting that he had that info on here I think I cop my fair whack mate.

I won’t pretend to respect those that don’t have my respect and I won’t edit my words for fear of offending others. I also don’t want that don’t respect me to pretend they do also. I don’t live that way in real life I won’t pretend to do it in here. I’ve been me since day one in here for good or bad.

I give honest opinion and am watched more than any other human in this place. I don’t break the rules and if I do I get infractions. Annoying people and being honestly negative are not against the rules. Mutt is dying to give me a perma ban so the minute I cross over the line I cop it

I have several people on ignore and They know I have them on ignore yet they continue to post and abuse me with ZERO response. They actually hold convos about me without me actually being apart of it and yet again people just see my name and blame me. Do me a favour and watch those that do come at me and see if I respond to them. And it’s funny so many people say they have me on ignore YET they use my words against me? Hmmmm

People can say whatever they wish about me but i won’t sit silent and let them lie about things I never said that they get away with coz it’s me. I have never wished injury on any player and won’t accept people lie and say I did.

With no disrespect I have not noticed you before and nothing you have said bothers me and even if it does you shouldn’t care. Life is way too short to be upset by people’s offence over others they do not know and never will.

It’s a public forum if people want a nice safe place I suggest hitting the Mama Mia forum.

Now I wish you a damn fine weekend and a Happy and more importantly safe Xmas and New Year.

I know people come at you a lot on here and you're always being discussed - that's one of the things I was talking about in my post. I'm sorry to hear about the personal abuse you've got, and nothing you've done on here that I've seen warrants stalking at all. No question.

You're right that you didn't wish injury on Jong or Smith and it was wrong to say that you did (which, from memory, was admitted to and apologised for), but what you did say was mean-spirited and over the line, imo, and was rightly called out as well.

But in the end it comes down the fact you're not willing to watch what you say in order to be considerate to others, which is your call, and so I'll put you on my ignore list, and I dare say we'll never talk again and both be happier that way.

Brownlow Medallist

I know people come at you a lot on here and you're always being discussed - that's one of the things I was talking about in my post. I'm sorry to hear about the personal abuse you've got, and nothing you've done on here that I've seen warrants stalking at all. No question.

You're right that you didn't wish injury on Jong or Smith and it was wrong to say that you did (which, from memory, was admitted to and apologised for), but what you did say was mean-spirited and over the line, imo, and was rightly called out as well.

But in the end it comes down the fact you're not willing to watch what you say in order to be considerate to others, which is your call, and so I'll put you on my ignore list, and I dare say we'll never talk again and both be happier that way.

Debutant

A bloke who, whether he can see it or not, regularly posts provocative comments and then steps away and produces the "right-to-speak" card to justify his gloomy forecasts and put-downs of players, other posters and the club in general.

Norm Smith Medallist

I do not agree with the aim of this thread at all. People should be responsible for their comments, and it’s not on to say certain things about others’ mental health, full stop. Nevertheless we don’t need to censor the board. It’s up to people to take responsibility for their own comments in a forum like this and I do not see any benefit in grouping up to educate others. We’re adults here and if someone is being a dick - that’s their problem and their responsibility as much as it is in any other social context. It would ruin the atmosphere, imo (I really can’t be ****** having some kind of imperative to lecture dumbarses for their bs... I like telling them off but that’s about it)

It also won’t make a difference to the players in question doing it in this context as if it were enforced people would simply seek out other outlets to rag on them. What will help at risk players is adequate support systems to deal with the realities of being a celebrity in a contemporary context. It’s NEVER going to get any easier and with a workforce comprising mostly very young blokes the AFL should have and must do more.

As The Buck also says above, you’re giving the troll what he wants with this shit too - aren’t you tired of that? I’m certainly sick of it.

Senior List

I do not agree with the aim of this thread at all. People should be responsible for their comments, and it’s not on to say certain things about others’ mental health, full stop. Nevertheless we don’t need to censor the board. It’s up to people to take responsibility for their own comments in a forum like this and I do not see any benefit in grouping up to educate others. We’re adults here and if someone is being a dick - that’s their problem and their responsibility. It would ruin the atmosphere, imo.

It also won’t make a difference to the players in question doing it in this context as if it were enforced people would simply seek out other outlets to rag on them. What will help at risk players is adequate support systems to deal with the realities of being a celebrity in a contemporary context. It’s NEVER going to get any easier and with a workforce comprising mostly very young blokes the AFL should have and must do more.

As The Buck also says above, you’re giving the troll what he wants with this shit too - aren’t you tired of that? I’m certainly sick of it.

I promise you, I'm ten thousand percent sick of it, but the thing is that it's going on all over the board and it's not magically going to stop on its own. I had a brief convo with MattDougie, and I don't intend to continue it. The thread was about being respectful on this board, and I've tried to discuss that with him, and I may be wrong but I don't think it's made anything worse. Again, people bringing everything back to MattDougie also takes the focus off the other issues which have been raised. It isn't all about him, I just responded to him because he was participating in the thread.

The wider point of the thread is about respect on the board, and it's interesting how so often requests for simple respect and better behaviour are often turned around and reframed as censorship. OptimisticDog made a pledge to avoid abusing players and making personal attacks on them, and others in the thread have talked about some of the offensive and trolling behaviour on the board and the effect that it has. Never at any point has anyone suggested censoring the board, unless you're referring to removing all the sexual conversation and objectifying of women in threads that are supposed to be about footy, in which case, yeah, got me. That doesn't belong here. I'm also not sure about the "grouping up to educate others". I don't think there's an education committee, just some posters frustrated with the state of the board.

There's not much we can do on here directly about player welfare, for sure, but I think the real benefit of a pledge like in the OP is to the state of this board and the people who read it. Worrying about the atmosphere being ruined if people decide to be more considerate doesn't take into account that for some people the atmosphere is already ruined.

Spec Moderator

Many people believe it's a virtue to stick to an expressed opinion, however unpopular, or whether facts don't support it. They need to be open to changing their minds if the evidence stacks up. Clinging to an "opinion" doesn't make them look strong, or individual, just obstinate. I respect someone more if they say "I used to think X but now I see that Y is the case."

Agree with TheFool (what does that make me? joke) about the over-the-top sexist posts. Isn't there a board for that, somewhere far far away? Kermit can you please clean up the thread in question?

Sometimes I'm sure people know they're being offensive and think that decency is there to be challenged, cos internet.

Club Legend

posters should respect that everyone is different.. good, bad, ugly, whatever. there will never be the utopia world some want. if there wasnt a wide range of opinions i'm sure a lot of us wouldnt be here. i know i wouldnt be, id just talk to myself, how boring.

singling out one poster out of nowhere is just as bad as the intention of this thread.

I started that, not with the intention of upsetting anyone, but as an add on to the possibility of seeing Josh Schache and Matthew
Hammelmann in the same forward line as I would have found that quite exciting. I apologise if this offended you or anyone else,
but I can assure you my swimming pool is not that shallow and I salivate over no one.

Norm Smith Medallist

I promise you, I'm ten thousand percent sick of it, but the thing is that it's going on all over the board and it's not magically going to stop on its own. I had a brief convo with MattDougie, and I don't intend to continue it. The thread was about being respectful on this board, and I've tried to discuss that with him, and I may be wrong but I don't think it's made anything worse. Again, people bringing everything back to MattDougie also takes the focus off the other issues which have been raised. It isn't all about him, I just responded to him because he was participating in the thread.

The wider point of the thread is about respect on the board, and it's interesting how so often requests for simple respect and better behaviour are often turned around and reframed as censorship. OptimisticDog made a pledge to avoid abusing players and making personal attacks on them, and others in the thread have talked about some of the offensive and trolling behaviour on the board and the effect that it has. Never at any point has anyone suggested censoring the board, unless you're referring to removing all the sexual conversation and objectifying of women in threads that are supposed to be about footy, in which case, yeah, got me. That doesn't belong here. I'm also not sure about the "grouping up to educate others". I don't think there's an education committee, just some posters frustrated with the state of the board.

There's not much we can do on here directly about player welfare, for sure, but I think the real benefit of a pledge like in the OP is to the state of this board and the people who read it. Worrying about the atmosphere being ruined if people decide to be more considerate doesn't take into account that for some people the atmosphere is already ruined.

I wholeheartedly agree that people should always be respectful towards one another.

Some people won’t though and beyond calling it out initially I don’t think we should do any more than that. The OP suggested that we have mods to assist with this, and that’s what I am referring to - I don’t think that’s their or our role. I’m not worried about the atmosphere being ruined if people decide to be more considerate. I’m worried about there being an atmosphere where there is some kind of imperative to have to chase up people who aren’t worth my time or effort when I’d rather be having a friendly chat about footy with like minded supporters. And quite frankly those people aren’t going to listen, and aren’t worth the time to engage with them. You can call for respect from them but from all my experience so far that seems to just make it much worse.

*******s should be able to be ignored. As for sexually violent or misogynistic comments. That should be banned entirely. Any instance of it. I was referring to careless criticisms of players who have mental heath issues in game day and other threads (which to my mind are unacceptable, but not in need of follow up or censorship, unlike many things which are).

As for the weather girl comments in the other thread, yes they’re very creepy! Do they cross the line? Not my place to say. Do you think they do? This is absolutely not a loaded question, just interested to know, as it’s obviously objectification but not sure in need of anything other than calling it out.