This trailer from PlanetSide 2 shows off a ground assault in SOE's upcoming MMOFPS sequel, showing a superior force prevailing, leading to the tagline: "Size always matters," a quote which we have not been able to find in Sun Tzu's Art of War.

LoL and TF2 say otherwise. Although the majority of players won't buy any aesthetic item, a small minority will pay a ridiculous amount of money to make themselves stand out. See the skins in LoL or the hats in TF2 or the mounts in WoW.

As for paying for XP boosters, it's true that they do give you an advantage when you're new and competing against other new players. In the long-term, however, it doesn't really offer any advantage because everyone has already unlocked everything.

TF2 was a good example. LoL wasn't. LoL sells overpowered heroes every month or w/e the interval is just to get people to buy it, then it is nerfed and they roll out the next OP hero. That company and game is fucked like most of the crowd playing it.

LoL and TF2 say otherwise. Although the majority of players won't buy any aesthetic item, a small minority will pay a ridiculous amount of money to make themselves stand out. See the skins in LoL or the hats in TF2 or the mounts in WoW.

As for paying for XP boosters, it's true that they do give you an advantage when you're new and competing against other new players. In the long-term, however, it doesn't really offer any advantage because everyone has already unlocked everything.

bhcompy wrote on Jun 21, 2012, 11:57:I'm sorry, "Pay to win" is when you can do things like buy superior weaponry that is only available with cash. Increasing your xp gain is not pay to win, it's called operating a free to play game and actually remaining viable and in business.

Yeah exactly, you're not really gaining an advantage aside from less time taken. It's not like the weapons are somehow going to kill quicker or "better" just because one pays physical money for em. At least in MWO, Not sure how it works in PS but I'd assume prolly the same with certs and xp just getting you there quicker.

I'm sorry, "Pay to win" is when you can do things like buy superior weaponry that is only available with cash. Increasing your xp gain is not pay to win, it's called operating a free to play game and actually remaining viable and in business.

eRe4s3r wrote on Jun 21, 2012, 05:46:So you think buying weapons, cbills and xp boosters are not pay to win? Unlocks and progression speed are part of the gameplay, paying gets you better unlocks faster even with less skill, gameplay effects -> pay-to-win.

It may not be terribly imbalanced, but it is pay to win. And that is everything that is wrong with F2P crap like this.

Exactly. I think guys get seduced by the logic that if said unlock is attainable without spending real money then it's okay. It all depends. I've played waaay too many F2P games on iOS and I know that unlockables and enhancements aren't worth the time spent hoarding the xp/points versus just outright buying it. If the F2P scheme isn't imbalanced at the start you can bet your ass that a company like SOE will make it that way eventually. SOE needs gamers to spend money. PS2 isn't going to turn a profit just buy selling skins.

So you think buying weapons, cbills and xp boosters are not pay to win? Unlocks and progression speed are part of the gameplay, paying gets you better unlocks faster even with less skill, gameplay effects -> pay-to-win.

It may not be terribly imbalanced, but it is pay to win. And that is everything that is wrong with F2P crap like this.

Verno wrote on Jun 20, 2012, 15:24:I know a lot of people hated T2 but I loved those 64 player mashups with vehicles and discs flying around everywhere. That game was technically a disaster in so many ways but when it worked, man it was fucking great.

C22 sounds like a lot of fun, I love outfits where the goal is just having a good time trying different things other than zerging.

We did a lot of things like this. Our original Claim to Fame on Konried server where our Tower of Power nights. Where we would go take a Tower in the middle of a fight between NC/Vanu where we didn't belong and see how long we could interrupt their battle. (Sometimes it was a half hour or more)

We also experimented with going to a locked continent, draining a base neutral in the middle of the continent to bring a fight to us and start the new continent that way (Instead of following the designated lattice lines)

We did the standard outfit things, ran Reaver nights and Armor Column nights. But the Spec Ops stuff we had the most fun with.

We became well known for doing random things like this and I truely hope Planetside 2 left room for this kind of gameplay.

More than welcome to come hang out with us, though right now until the beta starts it's mostly just a few of us playing BF3 or the original Planetside at night.

That sounds like a ton of fun, Drez. Seeing as I'm pretty insanely stoked for this game I've just registered on your forums and will applying because you guys sound like the sort of crew I could have a hoot with. And I'm super easy about roles/direction. Happy to play offense, support, whatever. In fact I'm thinking I'd quite like to play a medic.

LgFriess wrote on Jun 20, 2012, 16:48:Not to hijack the thread but I've not looked into the specifics of MWO. What is it doing badly with their F2P model?

If you pay you get increased XP and in-game money. It becomes a grind-fest, whereas games like Dota 2 only sell cosmetic items and don't give players any gameplay advantage for paying. I'm not a fan of XP/unlock systems in non-RPG games, especially when combined with pay-for-advantage systems like MWO - especially when the top-tier costs $120, which is dramatically more than a regular game costs. Not everybody objects as I do, but I'd much rather pay for a game outright than give an advantage to players that pay more.

RollinThundr wrote on Jun 20, 2012, 17:07:Dude you have no fucking clue what you're talking about when it comes to MWO. You still need skill to do well. PS2 has XP boosts as well available in it's store. How is that any different at all?

If that's the case for PS2 then I object, as I have made perfectly clear. I'm not applying double standards.

RollinThundr wrote on Jun 20, 2012, 17:07:Stop talking out of your ass about a game you obviously haven't played and don't know shit about.

How the hell I'm I meant to have played a game that hasn't even been released yet?

LgFriess wrote on Jun 20, 2012, 16:48:Not to hijack the thread but I've not looked into the specifics of MWO. What is it doing badly with their F2P model?

If you pay you get increased XP and in-game money. It becomes a grind-fest, whereas games like Dota 2 only sell cosmetic items and don't give players any gameplay advantage for paying. I'm not a fan of XP/unlock systems in non-RPG games, especially when combined with pay-for-advantage systems like MWO - especially when the top-tier costs $120, which is dramatically more than a regular game costs. Not everybody objects as I do, but I'd much rather pay for a game outright than give an advantage to players that pay more.

RollinThundr wrote on Jun 20, 2012, 17:07:Dude you have no fucking clue what you're talking about when it comes to MWO. You still need skill to do well. PS2 has XP boosts as well available in it's store. How is that any different at all?

If that's the case for PS2 then I object, as I have made perfectly clear. I'm not applying double standards.

RollinThundr wrote on Jun 20, 2012, 17:07:Stop talking out of your ass about a game you obviously haven't played and don't know shit about.

How the hell I'm I meant to have played a game that hasn't even been released yet?

theyarecomingforyou wrote on Jun 20, 2012, 15:08:As long as the cash items are restricted to cosmetic items and there isn't anything else that imbalances the game I'm looking forward to this. It reminds of what I loved about Tribes 2. I wanted to like Tribes: Ascend but the XP grind bullshit turned me right off it and because it downplayed vehicles - as you needed to earned credits to unlock them - it just didn't have the team element and epic scale that I loved about the franchise.

This looks like Tribes done right and F2P without all the bullshit baggage that ruins the vast majority of F2P games (the new MechWarrior Online is a perfect example of how to do F2P badly).

Dude you have no fucking clue what you're talking about when it comes to MWO. You still need skill to do well. PS2 has XP boosts as well available in it's store. How is that any different at all?

You can use Cbills you gain from games to outfit mechs, or you can use real money to buy the same exact weapons though you get enough Cbills per match that you don't need to spend a penny if you don't want to and still do just fine.

Stop talking out of your ass about a game you obviously haven't played and don't know shit about.

Verno wrote on Jun 20, 2012, 15:24:I know a lot of people hated T2 but I loved those 64 player mashups with vehicles and discs flying around everywhere. That game was technically a disaster in so many ways but when it worked, man it was fucking great.

C22 sounds like a lot of fun, I love outfits where the goal is just having a good time trying different things other than zerging.

We did a lot of things like this. Our original Claim to Fame on Konried server where our Tower of Power nights. Where we would go take a Tower in the middle of a fight between NC/Vanu where we didn't belong and see how long we could interrupt their battle. (Sometimes it was a half hour or more)

We also experimented with going to a locked continent, draining a base neutral in the middle of the continent to bring a fight to us and start the new continent that way (Instead of following the designated lattice lines)

We did the standard outfit things, ran Reaver nights and Armor Column nights. But the Spec Ops stuff we had the most fun with.

We became well known for doing random things like this and I truely hope Planetside 2 left room for this kind of gameplay.

More than welcome to come hang out with us, though right now until the beta starts it's mostly just a few of us playing BF3 or the original Planetside at night.

That sounds like a ton of fun, Drez. Seeing as I'm pretty insanely stoked for this game I've just registered on your forums and will applying because you guys sound like the sort of crew I could have a hoot with. And I'm super easy about roles/direction. Happy to play offense, support, whatever. In fact I'm thinking I'd quite like to play a medic.

“That's it. You people have stood in my way long enough. I'm going to clown college!”

Feel kind of bad for Dust 514 with as good as this is looking, but I'm sure they're happy they're staying in the console ecosystem for now. Considering all the rumors of Sony buying out CCP because of Dust 514, this probably puts that to rest, because this game is obviously going to be successful.