May 22, 2007

"Clearly, this public comes across as much more moderate than much of the Muslim public in most of the world," said Andrew Kohut, president of the Pew Research Center. "They are decidedly American in outlook. Seventy-two percent say hard work can get you ahead in the society, and that is even a larger segment than the general public in the United States."

Of course American Muslims are happy with their lives and their overall outlooks. Let them try to pass off their type of islamisism anywhere else besides the US and let's see how moderate they remain. In the middle-east they would be called traitors. In fact, this is the type of scrutiny they would face outside of the US and this is just one voice on the matter.

http://www.al-moharer.net/moh205/safiyyah205.htm

Moderate muslims are just that, moderate. They wouldn't be allowed to exist anywhere else as moderate if they lived in the middle-east where this is not allowed. Most muslims would rather not be political, but unfortunately the arab culture doesn't allow them that luxury. Most arabs would tell you in private that they don't have a choice but to follow the crowd because if they don't, then they risk having themselves or their families punished or killed. Islam simply doesn't play well with others.

It alluded to certain numbers of youth having "extremist views" and did say 46% of American Muslims said their highest loyalty is to Islam, not the USA, but for the most part was all about "Great people, well adjusted! No problem here, folks, move on!"

Even Reuters had a far grimmer picture than the pro-Muslim spin of the liberal media contents of the Krupa article you linked, Ann.

The myth is that in many countries, Islamoids are angry and considerable numbers support terrorism from poverty alienation, lack of upward mobility. But, the media says, not Israel or the good ol' USA, where Muslims are treated good and are real happy for the most part.Well, we know now the Israeli Muslims are not happy But what of the Happy Muslim in the USA, no threat to anyone??? That makes America the Great Exception to the Bloody Borders of Islam?Pew Research suggests we aren't an exception. (Perhaps the only reason we haven't seen the European sort of violence and problems is Muslims still lack the numbers in the USA to create extremist havens)

From Pew Research, that alerted us to how bad and growing the radical Islamist problem was in Europe, N Africa, Pakistan - some Islamoid Factoids, from Reuters:

The survey found 26 percent of younger Muslims believed suicide bombings are often, sometimes or rarely justified, compared with 69 percent who believed such attacks can never be accepted.

By contrast, 13 percent of all U.S. Muslims felt suicide attacks could be justified often, sometimes or rarely, while 78 percent completely rejected the deadly tactic that has been used by al Qaeda and other Islamist militants.

The poll, conducted from January 24 to April 30 in four languages, had a 5 percent margin of error.

"It's not something they see themselves engaging in. It's more of them seeing what's happening abroad and ... feeling that in these situations, suicide bombings are justified for others," said Farid Senzai of the Institute for Social Policy and Understanding, a Michigan-based research group that studies U.S. domestic and foreign policy.

But 5% of young American Muslims expressed support for the activities of Al Qaeda, a number estimated at 27,000 -30,000 nationwide.

Senzai attended the news conference as a member of the Pew survey project's outside advisory board.

Experts said the level of Muslim youth support for suicide bombings was similar to patterns seen in Europe.

Support in some degree for suicide bombings among younger European Muslims ranged from 22 percent in Germany to 29 percent in Spain, 35 percent in Britain and 42 percent in France, according to a May 2006 Pew poll.

Pew estimates that there are 2.35 million Muslims living in the United States, a tiny fraction of an overall U.S. population of 300 million people. But Muslim population estimates vary widely, ranging as high as 7 million, because the U.S. Census Bureau does not ask about religious affiliations in its national surveys.

Pollsters said they were surprised to find that only 40 percent of U.S. Muslims believed Arabs carried out the September 11 attacks on New York and Washington.

The survey suggested 53 percent of Muslims believe their life has become more difficult since the 2001 attacks because of discrimination or government surveillance.

But the findings also showed that 78 percent of U.S. Muslims are either "pretty happy" or "very happy" with their lives.

All in all, not very encouraging, especially when Muslims list the main reason they are happy in their lives is "submission to the Will of Allah and the dictates of the Holy Qu'ran".

Besides the 5% of Muslim youth that "supported AQ, 26% had a more positive than negative view of AQ or refused to answer.

Enemy within.

Almost half of jihadi attacks directed at Americans involved some US citizens, naturalized citizens, or foreigners given refugee status. Many of the true bigshots of international terror like Sayyid Qutb and Khalid Sheik Mohammed lived or studied in the USA for many years and gave no outward sign of their intentions...

The most disturbing thing about that survey is 29% of the general public apparently thinks the war in AFGHANISTAN was a mistake. I didn't think the wingnut vote was that big. No wonder the Democrats are doing well in the polls.

Anyway, referring to "American Muslims" as a faceless mass is a bit silly. The poll indicates that the median American Muslim believes in maintaining a distinct identity while adopting American customs and favors the American work ethic while being dissatisfied with the current state of the country. He is homophobic and in favor of a bigger government that does more to crack down on morals violations.

Ironically, this median Muslim did not vote for George Bush.

Anyway, aside from being significantly less pro-American in attitude than the typical American, this median Muslim is fairly typical of a member of the Religious Right -- whether you view that as "mainstream" or not is up to you.

But let's look at the outliers. According to this survey, over a quarter of foreign-born Muslims flat-out reject adopting any American customs. Muslims under age 30 identify themselves as Muslim, rather than American, by a 2 to 1 margin. Alarmingly large percentages of all Muslims are 9/11 conspiracy theorists.

Fully half of Muslims believe the Koran is the literal word of God. Most of those further believe that there is only one posible interpretation of those words. In short, a good third of Muslims make Pat Robertson look like a morally reletivistic wuss and the majority would make a Southern Baptist preacher say "y'all need to be a little more flexible in your morals".

To sum up, the median Muslim is, essentially, George Bush without the war on terror. A plurality of the Muslim community favors significant reductions in American freedoms and lacks loyalty to American ideals.

I'm on Zogby's polling list, and I get email polls from his company about once a month.

Recently, I suffered through an extensive telephone poll conducted by his company regarding Americans' views of Muslims. The questions were comically biased....If only I'd written them down.

In any event, the gist of poll seemed to be whether or not plain non-Muslim Christian-type folks thought Muslim Americans were law-abiding folks and whether or not Islam was a peaceful religion.

One section of questions dealt with how I regarded Muslim police officers, teachers, nurses, and politicians, especially in the context of how they appeared in the media. I got the sense that we are soon going to see TV drama, sitcoms, and movies featuring whitebread Muslim characters....

Before the India-Pakistan Partition, based on the majority of Muslims rejecting assimilating as a minority and demandin their own "Pure (Pak) Muslim nation (stan):

At the 1940 AIML conference in Lahore, Muslim leader Mohammed Ali Jinnah made clear his commitment to two separate states, a position from which the League never again wavered:

“ The Hindus and the Muslims belong to two different religions, philosophies, social customs and literature… To yoke together two such nations under a single state, one as a numerical minority and the other as a majority, must lead to growing discontent and final destruction of any fabric that may be so built up for the government of such a state.

Curious that a poll needs an advisory board, when they are supposedly asking questions to ascertain the truth.

I saw about 10 minutes of Frank Gaffney's documentary, Islam v. the Islamists, and it's excellent. It's also very un-PC, as it tells the story of real moderates who are being intimidated and threatened by the more radical Islamist establishment. PBS replaced it, on advice of their advisory group of radicals, and showed another piece about how Muslims are victimized in the US.

If you want to see the film that you as a taxpayer paid for, go to his site and sign the petition.http://freethefilm.net/

I'm not a fan of immoderate Islam by any means, but having one's higher loyalty to one's religion rather than to one's country is as American as apple pie.

Not according to that poll.

First off, more Christians picked "American" than "Christian" as their primary loyalty. For Muslims the numbers were reversed. Secondly, and most alarmingly, the percentage of Muslims choosing "American" were very low, even among those who've been here for decades -- a hefty chunk of those who didn't choose "Muslim" opted for the "dual loyalty" option rather than the "American" one. Lastly, around a third of Americans aren't religiously affiliated, and hence obviously don't consider themselves to primarily be a member of a religion.

It all adds up to this: around two out of three Americans consider themselves Americans first, with religious loyalty being either secondary or not a consideration at all. In contrast, only one in four Muslims feel that way. The Muslim attitude on this subject is pretty clearly not "as American as apple pie".

Perhaps it's that devout Christianity is more compatible with loyal American citizenship than is devout Islam. If that's the problem, say so.

Christianity is, indeed, more compatible with secular democracy than Islam is, and that may be the root cause of this problem.

Question: If a Christian must be put God BEFORE country...Can a Christian every be a truly loyal American?

When that abortionist was assassinated by a pro life gunman, I read many posts by religous folks who applauded the act even though it was an act of murder under American laws.They said that if it came to obeying the laws of God obeying the laws of the country.... they'd choose to obey God.This raises some serious concerns about where the loyalty of Christians lie. If our government passes laws that Christians don't like, how can we be sure they will obey them?There are a lot of issues that Christians will never compromise on : homosexuality, abortion, pornography, marijuana, prostitution

Would Christians choose to follow God or the laws of our Country.

I think they will choose their God.

Personally, I put my Country BEFORE my God. Country comes first.

Which leaves the rest of us wondering: Can Christians every truly be Good Americans?