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WHIRLPOOL WARS:Danzou Strikes Back

well i've mentioned it before in the threads...so i figured i make a thread to get this off my chest and hear you guy's input on it...

well,with recent events...we have been shown that danzou's hands were into about everything that has devastated clans,villages and nations in the past.
1)more than likely nagato's village...his alliance with hanzo says alot
2)kabuto and his poor orphanage...plus the villages that kabuto infiltrated
3)undermining the 3rd...helping oro with his experiments
4)turning on a clan in his own village(the uchiha)...a former teammate's clan
5)lastly...he probably was heavily involved with the kazekage's death along with helping
to take out sarutobi-sama.

so my question is...

was danzou involved in uzushiogakure's demise and if so how deep did it go?

i mean was it like my last point(5) where it really isn't story changing...or was it like point (4).where it is very much story changing as far as...it justifies sasuke's fight with danzou...(and maybe riling naruto if it were true...naruto vs danzou could have happened).it was a priority of danzou's to keep naruto in the village(was it for his/village safety...hummm?).

were the uzumaki a target for him and oro... was this a way to get the secrets to build his body(sharingans and hashirama cells).seeing how he couldn't read the naka shrine tablet...neither could oro.with that said...how involved were they involved with madara.
was he friend or foe...because kabuto never even told tobi where he got the sample of dna for madara.remember..."where did you get that"lol...

well anyways...what do you guys think about his involvement...because itachi's flashback insinuates that danzou didn't give a s#$t about his comrades when it came to country(konohagakure).

besides,this is quite possible...how can sasuke's past be more tragic than naruto's(the protagonist).it would bring those two closer if they were truely screwed by the same guy...but of course naruto will convince sasuke that the village and it clans(his friends)are not to blame...

Re: WHIRLPOOL WARS:Danzou Strikes Back

I like this theory, and it can be certainly be possible, since Kishi pratically uses Danzou as a plot device for every bad things happened in the current timeline.

Still, I don't think it would be possible, for a lot of reasons:
-Uzumakis were Konoha's allies, and losing them would've meant losing a powerful partner ( they were feared so much they got annihilated, after all, probably by an alliance between more villages like Iwa and Kumo ) in any war.
Just take the Third ninja war, Konoha forces were slaughtered until Yondaime appeared in every battlefield, it can be said that Yondaime basically soloed that war.
With Uzumakis on their side, I believe the outcome would be different.
-Uzumakis were related to Senjus on both blood and marriage, and Danzou always seemed loyal to the First and the Second Hokages, and not only that, but apparently only Uzumakis have a body capable of being the Kyuubi's Jinchuurikis, meaning that exterminating them would've meant a freed Kyuubi, something he certainly wouldn't want, considering also his wariness about Uchihas.
Also losing Kyuubi would've meant Konoha would be the only major village without a Bijuu, thus being seen as weak, while Danzou wanted Konoha to be seen as the strongest.
-We saw how Fuuinjutsu is one of the most powerful arts in the Narutoverse, losing the greatest experts in that art would've dealt a huge blow, Danzou himself seemed fairly proficent with it.

As for Sasuke and Naruto's duality, the major responsable of his shitty life is Tobi, so Naruto fighting Tobi not for revenge, but for the sake of the world would mean that he has something to teach to Sasuke already.
Dunno, Danzou seemed always neutral about Naruto, he saw him as a weapon, like any other Jinchuuriki, nothing more, nothing less.

Re: WHIRLPOOL WARS:Danzou Strikes Back

Originally Posted by Uchiha_Blood

I like this theory, and it can be certainly be possible, since Kishi pratically uses Danzou as a plot device for every bad things happened in the current timeline.

Still, I don't think it would be possible, for a lot of reasons:
-Uzumakis were Konoha's allies, and losing them would've meant losing a powerful partner ( they were feared so much they got annihilated, after all, probably by an alliance between more villages like Iwa and Kumo ) in any war.
Just take the Third ninja war, Konoha forces were slaughtered until Yondaime appeared in every battlefield, it can be said that Yondaime basically soloed that war.
With Uzumakis on their side, I believe the outcome would be different.
-Uzumakis were related to Senjus on both blood and marriage, and Danzou always seemed loyal to the First and the Second Hokages, and not only that, but apparently only Uzumakis have a body capable of being the Kyuubi's Jinchuurikis, meaning that exterminating them would've meant a freed Kyuubi, something he certainly wouldn't want, considering also his wariness about Uchihas.
Also losing Kyuubi would've meant Konoha would be the only major village without a Bijuu, thus being seen as weak, while Danzou wanted Konoha to be seen as the strongest.
-We saw how Fuuinjutsu is one of the most powerful arts in the Narutoverse, losing the greatest experts in that art would've dealt a huge blow, Danzou himself seemed fairly proficent with it.

As for Sasuke and Naruto's duality, the major responsable of his shitty life is Tobi, so Naruto fighting Tobi not for revenge, but for the sake of the world would mean that he has something to teach to Sasuke already.
Dunno, Danzou seemed always neutral about Naruto, he saw him as a weapon, like any other Jinchuuriki, nothing more, nothing less.

yeah i know they were konoha's allies but we are talking about danzou...the uchiha were allies,hiruzen was his ally,itachi was his ally,sai and so on....
he doesn't give a shit about alliance...that is his"passive"agressive way of doing things.just look at the orphanage incident.
if this is danzou's way of treating allies/friends/comrades...sasuke sure wasn't having any of it(lol...neither would i).

as far as war...don't even bring that up.were they(uzushio)not a part of the fire nation?
then how come there are no noted uzumaki exploits during any of the wars.they were a cousin clan/ally to konoha...so when ever this happened(time/generation/peace/war).you mean to tell me that every citizen of uzushio was in the village at the time of the massacre(come on)...they say the clans were spread out afterwards.why wouldn't they just settle in konoha(hummmm)?
maybe,they did not feel safe there either...or felt that konoha could not protect them?
kinda suspious that they would try their luck in rival nations,when konoha is their"suppossed"closest ally.

now it could have been as simple as the shinobi of uzushio was not asked to fight by konoha/land of fire...hence,pissing danzou off(for what ever little reason he could come up with).

as far as a raid by rival nations...they live on an island that has the nation of fire to block most rival nations off from them.plus they are sealing specialists...if konoha has a barrier,imagine uzushio's defenses.
this was an inside job...like the uchiha.in both cases,if they knew they were about to be attacked...they would both be able to defend themselves and more than likely make you regret it.

Quote:

Uzumakis have a body capable of being the Kyuubi's Jinchuurikis

danzou cared little about the jinchuuriki...he was trying to achieve the power to control the kyubi.i think he would be very much interested in what secrets this village holds,especially with oro at his side...it's funny oro found karin during her village's demise(coincidence?).
if that was uzushiogakure,then we both can safely say that oro would not be able to bring it down alone(hence danzou and root).

his loyalty is in question...the 1st and 2nd preached will of fire and so did the 3rd.but we seen how he dealt with the uchiha...do you think the 1st and 2nd would have done the same?
the 3rd showed he wouldn't have...danzou was out for himself and not for konoha.he used konoha as an excuse for his evil deeds...

to me,i think minato becoming hokage pissed him off more than hiruzen becoming hokage.
because it's funny how all these unfortunate events for konoha started happening around the same time.because,once the 4th was gone only hiruzen would have given danzou a fight.this may have been the reason hiruzen took back the leadership...

speaking of which...
everyone keeps asking where were the uchiha during that night...where was danzou...was he not the third strongest in the village?
maybe danzou did not decide to make a move until he thought the 3rd was finished(passing on the title of hokage).he may have thought the 4th was young and naive...and maybe vurnerable to attack(from behind his back...lol).

Re: WHIRLPOOL WARS:Danzou Strikes Back

IMO i really think Danzo cares for the village, but he has the idea that ninja are tools and there deaths sounds be respected and praised, but dieing for the village is a ninjas duty.....Danzo himself died protecting the village from Sasuke who was going to kill a lot of innocent people...now i admit danzo has done alot of shady stuff and he craving of the tittle Hokage was more of a personal thing if you remember ... all he ever wanted was to be a proud and true ninja like his father and grandfather....so really if you look at it danzo has quite a tragic life

"Keep Eating Shit For The Rest Of Your Life " - 愛憎のロクサーヌ- Roxanne of Love and Hate

Re: WHIRLPOOL WARS:Danzou Strikes Back

hitler loved germany,stalin loved russia,the Kims love korea and so on...the quest for power changes one's thoughts of reality.
danzou's views were warped...and so was his way of dealing with comrades/community(if they don't love you who will?)...

Re: WHIRLPOOL WARS:Danzou Strikes Back

Originally Posted by gnut

yeah i know they were konoha's allies but we are talking about danzou...the uchiha were allies,hiruzen was his ally,itachi was his ally,sai and so on....
he doesn't give a shit about alliance...that is his"passive"agressive way of doing things.just look at the orphanage incident.
if this is danzou's way of treating allies/friends/comrades...sasuke sure wasn't having any of it(lol...neither would i).

as far as war...don't even bring that up.were they(uzushio)not a part of the fire nation?
then how come there are no noted uzumaki exploits during any of the wars.they were a cousin clan/ally to konoha...so when ever this happened(time/generation/peace/war).you mean to tell me that every citizen of uzushio was in the village at the time of the massacre(come on)...they say the clans were spread out afterwards.why wouldn't they just settle in konoha(hummmm)?
maybe,they did not feel safe there either...or felt that konoha could not protect them?
kinda suspious that they would try their luck in rival nations,when konoha is their"suppossed"closest ally.

now it could have been as simple as the shinobi of uzushio was not asked to fight by konoha/land of fire...hence,pissing danzou off(for what ever little reason he could come up with).

as far as a raid by rival nations...they live on an island that has the nation of fire to block most rival nations off from them.plus they are sealing specialists...if konoha has a barrier,imagine uzushio's defenses.
this was an inside job...like the uchiha.in both cases,if they knew they were about to be attacked...they would both be able to defend themselves and more than likely make you regret it.

Uchihas wanted to overthrow Konoha's higher ups, meaning Danzou as well, Hiruzen was his ally but he was, according to Danzou, too naive to ensure Konoha's dominance.
Sai and Itachi were viewed as tools, as shinobi were viewed by him.
While he does questionable things, he always have Konoha's wellfare in mind, and his own too of course.

To be fair, the only ones that rised up in the wars were the Sannins during the Second, and Yondaime during the Third, no other clan, or ninja, or special figure can be said to have took part in it and made a difference.
As for Uzumakis... Well, the majority of Konoha stays in Konoha too, a few wanderers always exist, that's why we've seen so few Uzumakis.

I doubt a small nation could withstand the might of 2 villages, hell I doubt Uzushio was as strong as a major village either, since they always seemed to me more of an overgrown clan than a village.

Quote:

danzou cared little about the jinchuuriki...he was trying to achieve the power to control the kyubi.i think he would be very much interested in what secrets this village holds,especially with oro at his side...it's funny oro found karin during her village's demise(coincidence?).
if that was uzushiogakure,then we both can safely say that oro would not be able to bring it down alone(hence danzou and root).

his loyalty is in question...the 1st and 2nd preached will of fire and so did the 3rd.but we seen how he dealt with the uchiha...do you think the 1st and 2nd would have done the same?
the 3rd showed he wouldn't have...danzou was out for himself and not for konoha.he used konoha as an excuse for his evil deeds...

to me,i think minato becoming hokage pissed him off more than hiruzen becoming hokage.
because it's funny how all these unfortunate events for konoha started happening around the same time.because,once the 4th was gone only hiruzen would have given danzou a fight.this may have been the reason hiruzen took back the leadership...

speaking of which...
everyone keeps asking where were the uchiha during that night...where was danzou...was he not the third strongest in the village?
maybe danzou did not decide to make a move until he thought the 3rd was finished(passing on the title of hokage).he may have thought the 4th was young and naive...and maybe vurnerable to attack(from behind his back...lol).

True, but a Jinchuuriki is needed to contain the bijuu, without it Kyuubi would rampage, and Danzou obtained Mokuton and the sharingarm after the massacre, meaning he needed
a Jinchuuriki to keep Kyuubi at bay.

His loyalty isn't in question imho, he did what he believed was right to ensure Konoha's domination.
We can question his methods, but don't forget that, despite the Dragonball feel, the Narutoverse is a ninja universe, where shadowy businesses were common thing.

During Yondaime's time Danzou seemed not to do a thing, probably because Yondaime was kage for a little time, and also because, like Naruto after the Pein invasion, he was pretty popular, thus any action towards him would destroy his reputation. Remember, Danzou wanted to be Hokage too, and an Hokage needs the people's support.

Lol Danzou was always absent from any major even during both part 1 and 2, we know during the Pein's invasion he did so to obtain the seat of Hokage, having ensured that Naruto was to stay at the Toads mountain.
He had faith ( ironic lol ) on Tsunade's and all of Konoha's ability to pull through, and in the end it was, for him, a winning bet.
Even though it was all thanks to Naruto stopping Nagato by throwing a book at him

Re: WHIRLPOOL WARS:Danzou Strikes Back

recent chapter makes me wonder more...
is this the reason oro was not particuliary interested in naruto in the beginning...
he had his fair share of uzumaki or senju dna/data...

thinking about how he tried to take over konoha...it would not be surprising if him and danzo comprised this assault.
like i said...it was quite a coincidence that he found karin(an uzumaki)in a village the was getting destroyed...and she was a...top-notch sensory,one of a kind sight,beyond byakugan user...
someone say"surveillance"

plus,who could have took them out without konoha reacting?
something screams"inside job"...someone they knew maybe even"trusted".

I think what he said is that "as long as the princess can utilize Katsuyu then not everyone in the village will die"....But dose danzo carry the "will of fire"

exactly...everything he does...he claims is for konoha.but,int the end it was all for his own selfish reasoning...
he always hated the fact...that he did not stand up when he had the chance and that sarutobi was chosen(because of his unselfishness in this very incident maybe)for hokage.

Re: WHIRLPOOL WARS:Danzou Strikes Back

recent chapter makes me wonder more...
is this the reason oro was not particuliary interested in naruto in the beginning...
he had his fair share of uzumaki or senju dna/data...

oro wanted best body right even then he was going after sasuke dont get me wrong sasuke is great but uchiha r known for there eyes not for body so if he wanted best body shouldn't he go after Senju or uzumaki who have good (best) body so if he wanted to become complete he should have take Senju or uzumaki body and uchiha eyes

danzou had uchiha eyes didn't oro have uchiha eyes ?? i mean if u look he has things that others didnt have danzou & tobi have lots of uchiha eyes then why didnt oro have. he and danzou were partners

Re: WHIRLPOOL WARS:Danzou Strikes Back

Not sure if Madara played a part as the village seemed to have been destroyed shortly after Kushina moved to Konoha. Madara would have been a bit too old to be able to take on the Uzumaki.

Orochimaru wasn't interested in Naruto because Naruto was seen as an untalented loser who'd amount to nothing, while Sasuke was seen as a genius with Sharingan. Orochimaru wanted the SHaringan because of its abilities, and Sasuke for how "beautiful" his body was and how talented he was. Even if Naruto did have Sharingan, Orochimaru would likely choose Sasuke unless Naruto was just as much of a talented genius. I don't think Orochimaru or anyone has Uzumaki DNA implanted because they have nothing to offer that makes them superior to Hashirama's DNA other than longevity. Even then, it's debatable as Hashirama might have lived a long time if he weren't killed.

Re: WHIRLPOOL WARS:Danzou Strikes Back

Originally Posted by suraj5898

oro wanted best body right even then he was going after sasuke dont get me wrong sasuke is great but uchiha r known for there eyes not for body so if he wanted best body shouldn't he go after Senju or uzumaki who have good (best) body so if he wanted to become complete he should have take Senju or uzumaki body and uchiha eyes

danzou had uchiha eyes didn't oro have uchiha eyes ?? i mean if u look he has things that others didnt have danzou & tobi have lots of uchiha eyes then why didnt oro have. he and danzou were partners

Orochimaru wanted the Rinnegan, and simply implanting some eyes would have be costly chakra-wise. Thus he choose to go after an Uchiha body, allowing him access to the eyes for no cost. The benefits of the Senju clan could be taken without any costly measures being attached.