As usual, Remington is a day (or a few years, give or take) and a dollar (or a bunch of dollars short). While they unveil their answer to Ruger's answer to Savage's innovative inexpensive bolt guns (first the Stevens 200 and then the Edge now Axis), the industry leaders in innovation are already 3 or 4 steps ahead of them. Remington's belated response is only offered in .270 Win, 30-06 and 7mm Rem Mag, while Ruger's American was originally offered in both short action .243 Win and .308 Win, as well as long action .270 Win and 30-06. And now Ruger has expanded their offering with new chamberings in 22-250 and 7mm-08. Of course the true innovator and market leader, Savage came out with their new package Trophy XP with a decent Nikon 3-9 BDC scope for a very reasonable price with the widest range of chamberings of any rifle offered including the .204 Ruger, the .260 Remington, and the Winchester Short Magnum cartridges. Winchester's (FN) response is to move the assembly of the Model 70 to Portugal and not bother to attempt to compete in the value class of entry level hunting rifles. I applaud Savage and their efforts to offer affordable, accurate, reliable rifles in a wide range of cartridges, so we aren't all doomed to the same old .243/.308/270/30-06 group of chamberings. Ruger appears to be following suit by expanding their offerings in their budget priced American. I don't know who calls the shots at Remington, but whoever it is, hasn't got a clue.

They cut some corners on an existing design, cheaped out on the finish, and lowered quality standards.

If that's innovation, we should all be worshiping China.

Remington 710/770 - NEW design, at the time of its initial release.
Marlin X7 - NEW design.
Ruger American - NEW design.
Savage Edge/Axis - cut corners on an existing design, and gave it a different name (...and had to rename it AGAIN, because it didn't have the best reputation)

That isn't "innovation", from my point of view.

__________________"Such is the strange way that man works -- first he virtually destroys a species and then does everything in his power to restore it."

They cut some corners on an existing design, cheaped out on the finish, and lowered quality standards.

If that's innovation, we should all be worshiping China.

Remington 710/770 - NEW design, at the time of its initial release.
Marlin X7 - NEW design.
Ruger American - NEW design.
Savage Edge/Axis - cut corners on an existing design, and gave it a different name (...and had to rename it AGAIN, because it didn't have the best reputation)

That isn't "innovation", from my point of view.

I was referring more to Savage's decision to offer their Trophy package gun in such a wide array of cartridges. And if you look closely at the "new designs" you list, you will find a whole lot of similarities to the Savage design, i.e. barrel nut, accu-trigger, synthetic stock, etc. And the reason they had to change the name was because Ford had already had a copy write on the name "Edge" for one of their vehicles, IIRC. Not sure I would have gone with "Axis" in its place, but I guess they had to do something.

Look closely at the safety and trigger on the 783. Then look at a pic of the marlin x7. They are the same. Then read the description of the marlin's pro-fire trigger vs. the remington cross-fire trigger. Both user adjustable and will go down to 2.5 lbs. Both have button rifled barrels and use the same barrel nut. Then take into account that a couple of years ago Marlin was bought out by the same company that owns Remington, Freedom Group, and the Marlin plant that produced the x7's was shut down and their operations moved to Remington's plant in Mayfield KY. The quality control of the Marlins suffered as a result. The marlins were still outselling and outperforming the 770s so now it seems Remington has slapped a new-age looking trigger guard and stock with a detachable box magazine on a marlin x7 with a smaller ejection port and called it a Remington model 783. Look for the x7 to be phased out soon and calibers and a stainless model to be added to the 783. Marlin has already dropped the stainless version of the x7. I think you will also find the Marlins that were made before the Remington takeover to be better guns than the "Remlin" x7's or the 783. Remington does not have the quality control that it used to, and its showing.

The only thing I really find interesting is that Remington used to make fun of Savage and their "ugly" barrel nut. I love the barrel nut. Sure makes head space adjusting a lot easier than going back to the lathe.
Looking at that stupid looking safety, I agree with the above posts that it is a Marlin. They are both Freedom Group companies so it makes sense.

I dont think that they will phase out the Marlin X7 on account of Remington offering a rebadged version. The X7's are already not sold in big-box retailers like Wal-Mart, Cabelas, Bass Pro, ect. The Remington will assuredly be sold at those stores. The Marlin X7 DID NOT suffer much from the transition like the Marlin Lever guns. Funny enough, the extractor problems that a rare few of the X7s experienced were all with pre-Kentucky X7 rifles, that I know of. ALL of the STAINLESS X7 rifles were made in the Kentucky plant. I have one and it is great. If the two lines co-exist it would be stupid for Remington to offer Stainless 783s and not stainless X7 rifles with the Marlin badge. They will probably not be sitting on the same shelves.

I saw the announcement on their website and it was interesting. IMO Savage is still the go-to rifle for anything less than $800 or so (The Ruger American seems to be doing very well too.). I think their Sendero IIs are nice, but I'd rather buy a used Savage and build it to exactly what I want, so I'd go with Savage even if I was looking for a more expensive rifle.

I absolutely agree with 2ndtimer about Remington.. a day late and a dollar short. Remington is just a disappointment at every turn lately. I've got high hopes that once Freedom Group changes hands that their new owner will bring them back to the company we all grew up loving.

The transition to barrel nuts by multiple manufacturers is interesting though. Who knows long term what kind of changes that could lead to.. maybe one day it'll be more common to build your own rifle than to buy it as one whole unit?

__________________
The Jeep has been a lot of fun, but time to come back to my first hobby.. shooting.

FiveInADime the reason I said what I did about the x7 and the stainless version is that I was looking at getting one a couple months ago and my dealer told me they were no longer available in stainless, even though there is still a stainless model on their website. I also did alot of online research and alot of reading on the marlin owners forum. The general consensus there was that an xl7/x7 with JM stamped on the barrel would 9-times-outta-10 be a better gun than one with an REP stamp. Ive never owned one myself so I cant say thats gospel. There were also alot of rumors floating around that this buyout of Marlin would lead to the x7's demise. The x7 may very well live on but I personally have my doubts. Time will tell.

Especially on the MarlinOwners forum, which I frequent, there is a sentiment of displeasure with the fact that Freedom Group bought out Marlin, closed their plant, layed off their employees, and handed everything over to Remington employees. Now there may be more of an 'out the door it goes' attitude with the new plant, but I have not seen this major discrepancy in "quality" between the JM stamps and REP stamps. Like I said, I personally have seen more broken parts reported on JM stamps. Sure, there are a few reports of this and that, but there are not mass reports of low-quality on even the REP stamp rifles.

I just bought a stainless x7 a month or so ago and there were 5 other stainless x7s on the shelf where I bought it. I went back a week ago and they had 6 on the shelf. $359.99 They ran a bunch of them in 2011 and those supplies are not depleted yet. If they choose to permanently discontinue the stainless x7 or the x7 in general, I would be very surprised.

Thats good to hear that you can still get an x7 stainless. I stand corrected. I hope they keep making them. Maybe Ill eventually own one. I wish I would have went to your dealer instead of mine who looked at me like I was an idiot and told me they were no longer made and there was no old stock of them left in any caliber. That deal falling through is what led to me ordering a Howa barreled action instead and Im pleased with it so I guess it all worked out. I still think Marlin, and Remington also, were better run companies that produced better firearms when they both were stand-alone brands. I think that Freedom Group is the source of the problem, not Remington or Marlin. Marlin was sucked into Remington which had already been sucked into Freedom Group. Dont get me wrong, I think the x7 is a great bang-for-the-buck rifle and I realize that Marlin and Remington still make good products, but it sure seems like I hear of alot more bad apples as of late, especially from Remington. I have a Marlin 336 in .35rem and a Remington model 700 in 6mm rem, both made in the 70's. The quality and fit & finish on both of those rifles is excellent, but compare them to a new version of each gun and its night and day. But I guess its that way with most brands nowadays. Hopefully when this "changing of hands" I keep hearing about finally happens to Freedom Group, things will improve. And to add to 4V50 Gary's post: that race for ugly is a three way race. You have to throw the Ruger American right in there with them. And the Mossberg ATR 100 isnt too far behind. But i suppose beauty (or ugly) is in the eye of the beholder. If you like the way it looks and can hit the broad side of a barn with it, have at it.

The reciever looks like the old Model 788 in pics. I have one of those great rifles very accurate just needs trigger work and a good scope and you are good to go. We the consumers are what want all cheap stuff from China especially to save money that is why Walmart is so big and other like them. My company in electrical has same issues and now have to sell Chinese motors to compete for business much to the 95 year owners disgust. The way we are now
roc1

I guess I fall into the old fart catagory ( though I don't feel I'm actually there yet... dragging my feet... kicking & screaming )

the only "new" bolt action I've bought lately was a Ruger 77-22 Hornet, that I wanted for a project, 1st thing I did, was replace the barrel... the price of the "nice" bolt guns drops my jaw, & the new Ruger was the same... I really wanted / needed one for my project, otherwise my "new" bolt guns have been old... new to me guns... my latest, an unfired 80's Remington 700 in 35 Whelen, with gorgous wood, ebony tip, jeweled bolt, & several $100.00 less than a new offering... IMO, this is the only way to buy... a couple years ago, I picked up an unfired 100th aniversary of the 30-06 version Remington 700, again, for a couple $100.00 less than a new gun cost...

... back to topic, I guess I'm just not willing to settle for the plastic trigger gaurds, magazine boxes, etc. cheesy wood or plastics ( though I do like a nice laminate stock, & do own a couple all weather stainless / synthetic guns ) I'd rather buy a used "classic looking" rifle, even if it requires rebarreling, or rebedding to get the accuracy I want, than buying the economy offerings...

I'm in need of a .270 right now, & will be scouring the gun shows looking for just that right gun... I doubt I could "pull the trigger" on one of the economy offerings, even though I'm tight on money right now

I agree with you Magnum Wheel Man. I looked at the Ruger Americans and brought home a Savage lightweight hunter. It has beautiful wood and is truly a beautiful rifle. It reminds me of BDL's made in the 80's. I would not buy one of the 783's purely because the safety on them is so crappy looking. It does not scream "cheap." There is nothing wrong with Cheap. It screams "junky."

You are right that bolt guns last forever.
My (four) Enfield #4/Mk.1s were manufactured in 1943 or so, and both Spanish FR8 carbines have very strong, large-ring 8mm Mauser actions which must also have been built in the 40s.

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