BTW, wasn't it Nate who wrote the check to replace the stolen football gear for a Detroit High School last year? And we want HIM to hit the road because of WHY?

No, that was Suh and Best, but that's besides the point.

Again, you don't over-pay someone by millions of dollars because they provide $20k worth of charity to a nearby school.

No, you just want to trade away a guy that has gotten better every year and never gotten arrested for anything, rather than paying him what he has earned. ( Avril )

Sorry. Couldn't help myself.

I would bet that he was talking about Burleson. There is no mention of Avril in any of that.

I was talking about Avril. And yes, he has gotten better every year he has been in the league. He progressed exactly as you could ever hope a 3rd round DE should.

June 2nd, 2012, 6:53 pm

thelomasbrowns

Player of the Year - Offense

Joined: August 24th, 2010, 9:54 pmPosts: 2870

Re: Nick Fairley Busted for Pot

BillySims wrote:

Here's a solution. Place him on a team ,1 year suspension without pay for conduct detrimental to the team. Do it right now! Sure, he's innocent until proven guilty. But, 2 arrest so closely together? That means that he is just a dumb rectum. And that stupid laugh on his mug shot proves it. Maybe a year with no pay will wise him up. If he screws up even 1 more time in that year, just cut him. He will never get it. And he would already be a waste of the pick we used to get him.

Billy, aren't you the guy who was pissed we didn't move heaven and earth to get Jenkins in the 2nd?

_________________"Good teams don't worry about a whole lot of stuff. They travel, they play, they win. And it doesn't matter where they go, what the time block is, all those kinds of things. They never seem to bother teams that play well, and we want to be one of those teams." -Jim Caldwell

Here's a solution. Place him on a team ,1 year suspension without pay for conduct detrimental to the team. Do it right now! Sure, he's innocent until proven guilty. But, 2 arrest so closely together? That means that he is just a dumb rectum. And that stupid laugh on his mug shot proves it. Maybe a year with no pay will wise him up. If he screws up even 1 more time in that year, just cut him. He will never get it. And he would already be a waste of the pick we used to get him.

Billy, aren't you the guy who was pissed we didn't move heaven and earth to get Jenkins in the 2nd?

Yeah so? Your point? Jenkins has been clean for over a year since his earlier problems. APPARENTLY he learned his lessons. And there were other other CB's that I would have been just as happy or happier with than Jenkins with our 2nd pick. But, then again, that has nothing to do with THIS discussion.

edited to add the bolded area.

June 2nd, 2012, 9:06 pm

regularjoe12

Def. Coordinator – Teryl Austin

Joined: March 30th, 2006, 12:48 amPosts: 4211Location: Davison Mi

Re: Nick Fairley Busted for Pot

BillySims wrote:

Footsoldier32 wrote:

BillySims wrote:

wjb21ndtown wrote:

WarEr4Christ wrote:

BTW, wasn't it Nate who wrote the check to replace the stolen football gear for a Detroit High School last year? And we want HIM to hit the road because of WHY?

No, that was Suh and Best, but that's besides the point.

Again, you don't over-pay someone by millions of dollars because they provide $20k worth of charity to a nearby school.

No, you just want to trade away a guy that has gotten better every year and never gotten arrested for anything, rather than paying him what he has earned. ( Avril )

Sorry. Couldn't help myself.

I would bet that he was talking about Burleson. There is no mention of Avril in any of that.

I was talking about Avril. And yes, he has gotten better every year he has been in the league. He progressed exactly as you could ever hope a 3rd round DE should.

I won't argue he is a bad value for a 3rd round pick, but he only had 5 sack a year and around 40 tackles per before Suh and KVB came to town. You can't ignore that and say the progression was all him. With out those guys next to him he is nearly average...and a dime a dozen replaceable IMO.

_________________2013 Lionbacker Fantasy Football Champion

June 3rd, 2012, 2:18 pm

m2karateman

RIP Killer

Joined: October 20th, 2004, 4:16 pmPosts: 10408Location: Where ever I'm at now

Re: Nick Fairley Busted for Pot

regularjoe12 wrote:

BillySims wrote:

I was talking about Avril. And yes, he has gotten better every year he has been in the league. He progressed exactly as you could ever hope a 3rd round DE should.

I won't argue he is a bad value for a 3rd round pick, but he only had 5 sack a year and around 40 tackles per before Suh and KVB came to town. You can't ignore that and say the progression was all him. With out those guys next to him he is nearly average...and a dime a dozen replaceable IMO.

Agree with Joe.

You also don't pay a guy top dollar for one decent years worth of performance. Other teams have done that and have paid a heavy price as a result. The argument that his productivity is the result of being placed among other very good defensive lineman is more than valid. I've said that Avril still had to make the plays he made. But those plays weren't enough to warrant his being overpaid. So, while he has improved somewhat year over year, and he was a value in the 3rd round, his status as a third round pick means absolutely nothing after the draft he was taken in, let alone years down the road. You don't overpay a player because he's turned out to be better than the average third round player.

_________________I will not put on blinders when it comes to our QBs performances.

BTW, wasn't it Nate who wrote the check to replace the stolen football gear for a Detroit High School last year? And we want HIM to hit the road because of WHY?

No, that was Suh and Best, but that's besides the point.

Again, you don't over-pay someone by millions of dollars because they provide $20k worth of charity to a nearby school.

No, you just want to trade away a guy that has gotten better every year and never gotten arrested for anything, rather than paying him what he has earned. ( Avril )

Sorry. Couldn't help myself.

I would bet that he was talking about Burleson. There is no mention of Avril in any of that.

I was talking about Avril. And yes, he has gotten better every year he has been in the league. He progressed exactly as you could ever hope a 3rd round DE should.

I won't argue he is a bad value for a 3rd round pick, but he only had 5 sack a year and around 40 tackles per before Suh and KVB came to town. You can't ignore that and say the progression was all him. With out those guys next to him he is nearly average...and a dime a dozen replaceable IMO.

When you draft a Dlineman in the late 1st round or later, it is pretty common to get very little, on field, results until the 3rd year. Which is exactly when Avril's stats caught up with his learning curve. I believe it was just a coincidence that Avril's 3rd year coincided with Suh's 1st year. Did Suh cause some of Avril's stats to increase? Probably. But, did Avril help Suh have a phenomenal rookie year? Probably. It cuts both ways. Only the freakish Dlinemen come in and produce right away. The rest take about 3 years for their stats to catch up to their learning curve. And amazingly, Avril's stats caught up in his 3rd year.

I was talking about Avril. And yes, he has gotten better every year he has been in the league. He progressed exactly as you could ever hope a 3rd round DE should.

I won't argue he is a bad value for a 3rd round pick, but he only had 5 sack a year and around 40 tackles per before Suh and KVB came to town. You can't ignore that and say the progression was all him. With out those guys next to him he is nearly average...and a dime a dozen replaceable IMO.

Agree with Joe.

You also don't pay a guy top dollar for one decent years worth of performance. Other teams have done that and have paid a heavy price as a result. The argument that his productivity is the result of being placed among other very good defensive lineman is more than valid. I've said that Avril still had to make the plays he made. But those plays weren't enough to warrant his being overpaid. So, while he has improved somewhat year over year, and he was a value in the 3rd round, his status as a third round pick means absolutely nothing after the draft he was taken in, let alone years down the road. You don't overpay a player because he's turned out to be better than the average third round player.

You also don't let pass rushers hit the door. Carolina still hasn't replaced Peppers. And adding Peppers revived the Bears who were left for dead and would have been coach hunting the next off season. And I bet you, Houston, despite Mario not fitting the 3-4, is going to regret letting him walk.

Avril's 5 sack year was also his rookie year. DEs almost never make a big splash into the NFL. Look at Chris Long. He has almost identical sack stats as Avril (4, 5, 8.5, 13) in his 1st 4 years.

I think he should get paid, as he does get sacks. He shouldn't be the highest paid DE, but I can see him being in the top 5-10.

_________________"Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passions, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence." - John Adams

“The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it.” - Neil deGrasse Tyson

June 4th, 2012, 10:35 pm

regularjoe12

Def. Coordinator – Teryl Austin

Joined: March 30th, 2006, 12:48 amPosts: 4211Location: Davison Mi

Re: Nick Fairley Busted for Pot

Touchdown Jesus wrote:

Avril's 5 sack year was also his rookie year. DEs almost never make a big splash into the NFL. Look at Chris Long. He has almost identical sack stats as Avril (4, 5, 8.5, 13) in his 1st 4 years.

I think he should get paid, as he does get sacks. He shouldn't be the highest paid DE, but I can see him being in the top 5-10.

But who surrounds Chris Long. Once again I'm not hating on Avril. But the truth is he is NEVER double teamed. IMO you better get in The ten sack range if your one on one all season long. Chris long will see a tackle and a tight end frequently. Due to our d line there are time when Avril only has to face a TE. I stand by the idea that his numbers are inflated due to that.

_________________2013 Lionbacker Fantasy Football Champion

June 5th, 2012, 8:25 am

m2karateman

RIP Killer

Joined: October 20th, 2004, 4:16 pmPosts: 10408Location: Where ever I'm at now

Re: Nick Fairley Busted for Pot

BillySims wrote:

You also don't let pass rushers hit the door. Carolina still hasn't replaced Peppers. And adding Peppers revived the Bears who were left for dead and would have been coach hunting the next off season. And I bet you, Houston, despite Mario not fitting the 3-4, is going to regret letting him walk.

Billy, I understand your viewpoint. However, it's not like the Lions have nobody else who can rush the passer. Avril had a better than average season. One. One. He shouldn't be paid like an elite pass rusher, and that's what he's waiting for. Sorry. You hurt the team when you pay a guy that much long term, and it turns out he flashed and then comes back down to earth. And putting Avril in the same sentence with Peppers is ridiculous. Peppers is and always has been an elite defensive lineman, not just pass rusher, but complete d-lineman. Avril is a liability against the run, and not just because of the Wide 9. He always has been too easily removed from the running lanes....by just one blocker.

And your post stating that Avril helped Suh his rookie year is completely and utterly without merit. Avril rarely sees a double team, and that is because of Suh, Corey or SLH eating those guys up in the middle. DTs take blockers away from the DEs in this defense, not the other way around. Suh was facing one blocker in the first half of his rookie season because teams were doubling Corey, not Cliff. Teams were also keeping the TEs on the left side of their O-line because of KVB. When Suh started destroying blockers and getting to QBs early in his rookie season, teams doubled him and began keeping their backs in more often in an effort to stop him. Avril barely ever faced two blockers that season, and less so last season.

All that said, I don't want to see Avril traded or watch him leave as a free agent. However, his vision of how he should be paid is a bit clouded. He needs to lower his demands to a more manageable level.

_________________I will not put on blinders when it comes to our QBs performances.

June 5th, 2012, 8:51 am

The Legend

Team President - Rod Wood

Joined: February 11th, 2005, 3:01 pmPosts: 5013Location: WSU

Re: Nick Fairley Busted for Pot

i love to beat up on billy when possible but i have to take his side for the most part on this one. the lions defense is dependent on the pass rush and avril is vital. i dont think the argument that avril's sacks are a direct result of suh or others making plays is a valid one. maybe he gets spared some of the double teams but its not like suh is chasing the qb into avril on a majority of the sacks. avril deserves his contract as much as charles johnson and others around the league deserved theres. the real question is can the lions afford to keep him at that cost? Until they add another passrushing DE in the draft or Willie Young turns his flashes into sustained success the answer is yes. The Lions are playing this smart by using the franchise tag and maintaining some leverage, IMO they are handling the situation very well.

June 5th, 2012, 5:47 pm

m2karateman

RIP Killer

Joined: October 20th, 2004, 4:16 pmPosts: 10408Location: Where ever I'm at now

Re: Nick Fairley Busted for Pot

The Legend wrote:

i love to beat up on billy when possible but i have to take his side for the most part on this one. the lions defense is dependent on the pass rush and avril is vital. i dont think the argument that avril's sacks are a direct result of suh or others making plays is a valid one. maybe he gets spared some of the double teams but its not like suh is chasing the qb into avril on a majority of the sacks. avril deserves his contract as much as charles johnson and others around the league deserved theres. the real question is can the lions afford to keep him at that cost? Until they add another passrushing DE in the draft or Willie Young turns his flashes into sustained success the answer is yes. The Lions are playing this smart by using the franchise tag and maintaining some leverage, IMO they are handling the situation very well.

Charles Johnson was WAY overpaid because Carolina was desperate. He should never have gotten that much, and it is likely had Carolina just let him look elsewhere he wouldn't have gotten that contract. And you don't overpay a player because some other team did it for their player. Were that the case you'd have teams handing out $100M contracts to defensive tackles left and right (ala Redskins to Fat Albert).

Avril got 11 sacks, and KVB got just three less than him. KVB faces the better player each week (left tackle) and is older. Sorry, but Avril shouldn't be getting paid much more than KVB is getting right now. And last I knew, Kyle wasn't sniffing $10M per season.

And while you talk about Willie Young and his "flashes", tell me, how is he supposed to do anything but flash when he is getting played part time? Until he is given a true full time assignment, working with the first team in practice day in and day out, getting a great deal of reps and then playing more than just around 8 to 10 plays per game on defense, doing anything more than "flash" is going to be difficult.

_________________I will not put on blinders when it comes to our QBs performances.