That quote is said mostly to anyone bitching about Ashenvale and Gilneas not reflecting the "Alliance victories" and that they prefer keep the zones like they are and offering interesting questing for both sides instead of just screw up everything just for a question of satisfaction and "fairness".

Or they could operate phasing so it feels like the world is dynamic and alive.

If they are/were going to commit themselves to an Alliance vs Horde war then they should have damn well made sure they had the resources to keep it dynamic and interesting for both sides. If not end it and return to a neutral storyline that both factions can enjoy.

Or they could operate phasing so it feels like the world is dynamic and alive.

If they are/were going to commit themselves to an Alliance vs Horde war then they should have damn well made sure they had the resources to keep it dynamic and interesting for both sides. If not end it and return to a neutral storyline that both factions can enjoy.

Resources that should be drained by much more useful content for a pointless phasing. And for anyone bitching about "they did it with Theramore", replace a city full of scripts, text quests and dialogues with nothing but a huge crater is extremely easy, you just erase everything and put "nothing" there. Phasing places like Ashenvale and Gilneas would require new scripts, new quests, new npcs and new dialogues. And that's huge.

I don't even know what it means "neutral storyline", since the point of phasing Ashenvale would be to, basically, remove the Horde presence from there, while now both sides have plenty of quests there, and this have nothing to do with the feeling of fairness, justice, sense of victory and stuff like that. For this they always say "gameplay > lore" when it comes to the game itself.

Originally Posted by Keyblader

It's a general rule though that if you play horde you are a bad person irl. It's just a scientific fact

Proof:

Originally Posted by ravenmoon

no matter what I said, you would find one way or another to undermine it or ridicule it. It wasn't in the interest of fair game with you, it was vindictive and cruel, just like the description of the race you adore so much

Resources that should be drained by much more useful content for a pointless phasing. And for anyone bitching about "they did it with Theramore", replace a city full of scripts, text quests and dialogues with nothing but a huge crater is extremely easy, you just erase everything and put "nothing" there. Phasing places like Ashenvale and Gilneas would require new scripts, new quests, new npcs and new dialogues. And that's huge.

I don't even know what it means "neutral storyline", since the point of phasing Ashenvale would be to, basically, remove the Horde presence from there, while now both sides have plenty of quests there, and this have nothing to do with the feeling of fairness, justice, sense of victory and stuff like that. For this they always say "gameplay > lore" when it comes to the game itself.

Don't forget all the artwork for the crater was already completed for the scenario. All they did was copy/paste it into the world.

Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment

´So.. sorry to bring this up but..you know that .."thing" (Med'an).. is that "thing" cannon still?
...as much have some have wished otherwise, yes. (Loreology)

seriously, looking at these screenshots in the other thread, almost every named orc in orgrimmar (or at least the ones able to fight) is killed in this raid. NPCs of all kinds wind up evil and are killed by either the Kor'kron or the players, and we kill the Kor'kron too. Some of the best the orcish race has to offer dies, like nazgrim. Their whole military is being completely destroyed. There are NO organized orcs helping the rebel forces, except for the few npcs like Thrall and saurfang/eitrigg.

But think about it. The orcs have been utterly ruined by this. their city is screwed and SO MANY of them are dead now. even the devs describe it as "wiping out every orc in orgrimmar". how can they still be the dominant force in the horde after this?

Resources that should be drained by much more useful content for a pointless phasing. And for anyone bitching about "they did it with Theramore", replace a city full of scripts, text quests and dialogues with nothing but a huge crater is extremely easy, you just erase everything and put "nothing" there. Phasing places like Ashenvale and Gilneas would require new scripts, new quests, new npcs and new dialogues. And that's huge.

I don't even know what it means "neutral storyline", since the point of phasing Ashenvale would be to, basically, remove the Horde presence from there, while now both sides have plenty of quests there, and this have nothing to do with the feeling of fairness, justice, sense of victory and stuff like that. For this they always say "gameplay > lore" when it comes to the game itself.

The point is, if you're going to create a war you should make it dynamic and changing.

Zones gained and lost, skirmishes in zones changing every patch.

Blizzard didn't have the resources for this and at times it came across as very forced, poorly written and felt like 1 side got by far the better (see horde 1-60, 5.3)

The point is, if you're going to create a war you should make it dynamic and changing.

Zones gained and lost, skirmishes in zones changing every patch.

Blizzard didn't have the resources for this and at times it came across as very forced, poorly written and felt like 1 side got by far the better (see horde 1-60, 5.3)

The war was not the driving force that brougth to the revamp, the Shattering has been the excuse for doing such a massive rework, since the zones had very minor and almost irrelevant changes by the beginning of the game, so they revamped all the 1-60 zones by moving the world at least a bit forward, since those areas were old as the game itself, with storylines tied to pre-TBC events.

Many zones had important changes that, in fact, brought the story forward with many events regarding the development of Garrosh, which was designed to be the final villain of MoP, so he needed some goddamn development outside of novels and short-stories.

Revamping Ashenvale and Gilneas would just result in trivial story progression that probably wouldn't have nothing to do with the next expansion or even the next one after that, nothing that couldn't just be confirmed and explained by the devs or in some novel/short story, like happened with the "canonical removal" of the Kor'kron guards in the Undercity; what you say about the "zones gained and lost, skirmishes in zones changing every patch" ecc. could be applied if the game had 100% focus in the Horde/Alliance conflict, but it doesn't; this whole HvA campaign served just a precise storyline (Garrosh's arc) and the revamp in Cata helped a lot to actually give any sense of progression to the story.

And if you felt that the Alliance quests were a bit worse or the Horde ones a bit better in the revamped zones that have been intended, since the "old world" always favored the Alliance in terms of interesting questlines and zones, compared to the Horde ones that were unintersting and, indeed, poorly written.

Originally Posted by Keyblader

It's a general rule though that if you play horde you are a bad person irl. It's just a scientific fact

Proof:

Originally Posted by ravenmoon

no matter what I said, you would find one way or another to undermine it or ridicule it. It wasn't in the interest of fair game with you, it was vindictive and cruel, just like the description of the race you adore so much

And if you felt that the Alliance quests were a bit worse or the Horde ones a bit better in the revamped zones that have been intended, since the "old world" always favored the Alliance in terms of interesting questlines and zones, compared to the Horde ones that were unintersting and, indeed, poorly written.

Why don't we just all agree that content should be good for both sides every time?

Why don't we just all agree that content should be good for both sides every time?

That would be amazing, but kinda hard to put in practice, balance has always been a complicated bitch to handle, especially in this game.

One thing is sure, phasing or revamping again those zones just for achieve some kind of justice or perfect balance is out of question, especially if we consider that I don't think any kind of "balance" would be achieved with the Horde removed by Ashenvale, for example, since would suddenly erase all their questlines there, and if the plan is just phasing Ashenvale just for see the Horde still there, with completely new questlines, but in a "losing" situation, well...that's pretty frivolous, if the point is moving forward a conflict that will have zero interest in the main story, at least in the short-term; they could always change their minds about it if some important storyline will be tied to these zones, probably.

Originally Posted by Keyblader

It's a general rule though that if you play horde you are a bad person irl. It's just a scientific fact

Proof:

Originally Posted by ravenmoon

no matter what I said, you would find one way or another to undermine it or ridicule it. It wasn't in the interest of fair game with you, it was vindictive and cruel, just like the description of the race you adore so much

That would be amazing, but kinda hard to put in practice, balance has always been a complicated bitch to handle, especially in this game.

No. It isn't. I said content should be good for both factions every time. I didn't say balanced. The story is going to flip back and forth, one faction will get developed for a bit, then the other. Our job as players is to sit back and enjoy the ride rather than wave a flag for our chosen faction. If we all united, rather than constantly bitching at one another, this would really be achievable. Instead Blizzard has to spend so much time trying not to upset the ultra patriots of both factions.

I really wish people would stop saying this, and trying to use it as there excuse for why they don't understand Garrosh's actions in mists.

All that happened in cata, was the writers making you think there was something else to Garrosh, when it was all a ruse. They convinced you he was a better orc then people regarded him as, but as all evidense as shown there after, his 'honorable actions' was nothing more then a ruse, where threw you off, so he could scheme something else.
His plan for the mana bomb didn't happen by chance, he saw what it did in stonetalon, and drew inspiration from it, all the while making you think he was disgusted at the act, when really he as inspired by it. Hell, he more then likely knew about the bomb itself, and after its use, killed his commander to make it seem like he had nothing to do with it, when really it was his plan all along.

Infact, I seem to remember one of the devs saying this, that it was all garrosh's plan to test the bomb out.

Nah, that's all pretty retconlicious. I think the only sense you can make of Stonetalon is that whoever was writing that intended to show Garrosh's character development (note his reference to learning from Saurfang in Northrend) into a more palatable Warchief. Then later on they all changed their mind and just made him the villain for MoP.

No. It isn't. I said content should be good for both factions every time. I didn't say balanced. The story is going to flip back and forth, one faction will get developed for a bit, then the other. Our job as players is to sit back and enjoy the ride rather than wave a flag for our chosen faction. If we all united, rather than constantly bitching at one another, this would really be achievable. Instead Blizzard has to spend so much time trying not to upset the ultra patriots of both factions.

It's not a matter of listening the "ultra-patriots" or some kind of loud and endless bitching, Blizzard decided themselves that the Horde questlines in the 1-60 bracket deserved something more, for compensate the lack of entertainement of the previous ones. Just because the Horde questlines are a bit better there doesn't mean that the Alliance ones are complete garbage. People should remember that is leveling content, not end-game, so is not worth of any kind of hard work in rephasing/reshaping or revamp until that doesn't fit with the current storyline (like happened in the Barrens, instead).

- - - Updated - - -

Originally Posted by Mormolyce

(note his reference to learning from Saurfang in Northrend)

Too bad that Garrosh essentially bashed and treated like shit Saurfang until the last day he stayed in Warsong Hold. Plus, the quote he used didn't fit with the situation and didn't have any sense there, so was just a fluff.

Last edited by Zulkhan; 2013-09-09 at 12:24 PM.

Originally Posted by Keyblader

It's a general rule though that if you play horde you are a bad person irl. It's just a scientific fact

Proof:

Originally Posted by ravenmoon

no matter what I said, you would find one way or another to undermine it or ridicule it. It wasn't in the interest of fair game with you, it was vindictive and cruel, just like the description of the race you adore so much

So it looks like the Alliance are the ones enslaving children. The Horde just locked them up.

Oh look, it's the local slobbering Horde fanboy. You know what I love most about the last couple of expansions? The way you guys have had to contort yourselves and torture logic in order to try and maintain this "scrappy underdogs downtrodden by the r-r-racist Alliance" self-image you masturbate to. I mean Sylvanas alone pretty much drags the faction into villain territory (let alone the steroid psychopath Warchief you've had for the last few years) but as soon as someone mentions it on a forum you'll have to wade through more flimsy justifications for killing civilians and maintaining WMD programs than a Syrian diplomat's press agent.

Sure, sure, whatever. "Persuading" some "volunteers" to quit (while their kids go "Whee this was fun!" and such) is totally the same as having to rescue children that were explicitly kidnapped and threatened by a bunch of undead warlocks and shit holding them prisoner with evil floating green eyes. Whatever, it's only Aquamonkey talking. The Alliance aren't the ones having to storm their own capital and kill their own faction leader on his throne while somehow acting like they haven't been taking his orders for years.

Too bad that Garrosh essentially bashed and treated like shit Saurfang until the last day he stayed in Warsong Hold. Plus, the quote he used didn't fit with the situation and didn't have any sense there, so was just a fluff.

Oh look, it's the local slobbering Horde fanboy. You know what I love most about the last couple of expansions? The way you guys have had to contort yourselves and torture logic in order to try and maintain this "scrappy underdogs downtrodden by the r-r-racist Alliance" self-image you masturbate to. I mean Sylvanas alone pretty much drags the faction into villain territory (let alone the steroid psychopath Warchief you've had for the last few years) but as soon as someone mentions it on a forum you'll have to wade through more flimsy justifications for killing civilians and maintaining WMD programs than a Syrian diplomat's press agent.

Sure, sure, whatever. "Persuading" some "volunteers" to quit (while their kids go "Whee this was fun!" and such) is totally the same as having to rescue children that were explicitly kidnapped and threatened by a bunch of undead warlocks and shit holding them prisoner with evil floating green eyes. Whatever, it's only Aquamonkey talking. The Alliance aren't the ones having to storm their own capital and kill their own faction leader on his throne while somehow acting like they haven't been taking his orders for years.

You're the one making wild exaggerations to pump up the Alliance side... All I did was slap them down with facts straight from the quests.

You claimed "children enslaved by the Horde." Completely false. They are held captive, not enslaved at all.

Nope, it's just that Garrosh says a thing and thinks another, and this happened by the very beginning, like in his short-story in which he thought a thing, but said another for meet Thrall's approval. It's a common and constant theme with Garrosh as always has been.

It's a general rule though that if you play horde you are a bad person irl. It's just a scientific fact

Proof:

Originally Posted by ravenmoon

no matter what I said, you would find one way or another to undermine it or ridicule it. It wasn't in the interest of fair game with you, it was vindictive and cruel, just like the description of the race you adore so much