Thinking of doing a rando/commuter build with this, drop bar none the less. Waiting for it to arrive..

Hey jdefran,

I picked up a Seneca off Craigslist a couple years ago, I started to mess with it and sacked it in an gave it to the bike mechanic at the LBS. I'd just done a couple Cunningham Nishiki builds, an Alien with Tange Prestige, and an Ariel with full 4130 frame and fork. The Seneca felt hefty but was finished nicely, lugged crown fork and clean welds. The Seneca was the middle model of the 5 bikes offered by Raleigh in 1985. Once I started pulling it apart I noticed that the steer tube is stamped "high-ten" and based on the "Raleigh Reynolds" frame tubing decal, I figured out the stays were high-tensile steel too. Hence, the 32 pound catalog weight that you found on MOMBAT's Raleigh pages. I've built probably 100 bikes in the past 10 years (for myself, family, friends, or to donate to charities... I've gotten very picky about the quality of the frame since space is an issue and I'll only take on lighter weight frames for my personal use. The mechanic at my LBS built up the Seneca, he rode it for a month and sold it. He didn't like the long top tube coupled with the long chainstays and the slack angles. The bike was good for an around town bike but not really trail worthy was his description. If you're planning a commuter build then the Seneca should make for a nice bike with a stable ride.

I picked up a Seneca off Craigslist a couple years ago, I started to mess with it and sacked it in an gave it to the bike mechanic at the LBS. I'd just done a couple Cunningham Nishiki builds, an Alien with Tange Prestige, and an Ariel with full 4130 frame and fork. The Seneca felt hefty but was finished nicely, lugged crown fork and clean welds. The Seneca was the middle model of the 5 bikes offered by Raleigh in 1985. Once I started pulling it apart I noticed that the steer tube is stamped "high-ten" and based on the "Raleigh Reynolds" frame tubing decal, I figured out the stays were high-tensile steel too. Hence, the 32 pound catalog weight that you found on MOMBAT's Raleigh pages. I've built probably 100 bikes in the past 10 years (for myself, family, friends, or to donate to charities... I've gotten very picky about the quality of the frame since space is an issue and I'll only take on lighter weight frames for my personal use. The mechanic at my LBS built up the Seneca, he rode it for a month and sold it. He didn't like the long top tube coupled with the long chainstays and the slack angles. The bike was good for an around town bike but not really trail worthy was his description. If you're planning a commuter build then the Seneca should make for a nice bike with a stable ride.

Good luck ! ! !

Thanks for the info, I appreciate it! Now I might have thought a little more about my decision if I read this first then again that's all part of being a tinker-er. I believe I got the frame for a decent price and have all the parts to build it up (handle bar might vary) so I figured what the heck. I'll try some dirt drops first and depending on feel, see if moustache bars work better to compenstate for the long top tube. I did however, try to base the size of the bike via top tube..it's 1 cm longer than my commuter (89 Trek 420).

If anything I'll tell my wife this bike will pull the kids' trailer when we have them

No way man, there would be no reason to second guess the purchase. My reply was going off your original post regarding building the Seneca up as a rando vs. a commuter... it'll make a fine commuter but given the 30+ pound starting weight in the catalog, it would be a hefty rando bike with full racks and panniers. You could certainly outfit it with light weight components and come in under 30 for sure but doing that seems like a lighter frame would be better served so you end up with a bike in the mid-20 pound range. Either way, I dig the idea of reviving any older steel bike and enjoying the custom build... beats the recycle bin and is way cooler than some crappy Chinese Wallyworld bike!!!

I'd caution you starting down the path of justifying bikes to the misses... there's nothing but the stink eye and the dog house waiting for you if you go there!

I wouldn't let the hi-ten stays and relatively generic tubing throw you off. My best-riding, most enjoyable bike is a Miyata I got for free that is just double-butted chromoly with hi-ten stays and fork. Couldn't tell you why, but it just is.

As far as weight goes, think of it this way. A complete bike usually weighs between 25 and 30 pounds. A frame is typically around 1/8th the weight of the completed bike, a relatively small percentage. A one pound frame weight difference (considered to be a fairly significant difference) is going to be the difference between a 27 pound bile and a 28 pound bike -- not a big deal. The weight difference makes a fairly negligible impact on your average speed over distance as well, something like a 0.2 mile per hour reduction for 10 pounds difference if I recall correctly.

I think that would make a pretty ideal touring/rando build myself. At 35 pounds, my Schwinn High Plains is no lightweight but I've never once found that it "feels" heavy on the road.

The new pedals were my only purchase, everything else came from the parts pile.

Now the starting weight of my Cimmaron was way over 30 pounds, as it came with rusty steel fenders, broken rack, quad crankset (homemade), old broken light, etc.

As acquired last fall, at a garage sale. I wish I had a picture of it as found, leaning against a tree, at a garage sale. Looked like a real POS, then I saw the Cimmaron model name (WTF), $15, sale had been going for over 3 hours, picked up two bikes at that one:

I'd have rocked the four rings? Just my kind of madness I guess? And the Raleigh? Why NOT use the frame for a rando, like you planned. With a few choice parts selections following the ways of weinieism, I bet that thing could be 27 and change? The wheels on those bikes weighed a TON, to start with, and add fat knobby tires, etc etc...You can imagine it adds up quick? The cannondale I just finished has two sets of wheels. With Pasela Tourguard tires, it weighs 25.01. With Tioga Psycho knobby tires on nearly Identical rims, it weighs 26.06(IIRC) Wheels and tires account for a lot of weight on most bikes?,,,,BD

My favorite bike picture, a close up of that crankset, with the homemade chain guard removed. Look closely, and count the chainrings: 1, 2, 3, 4: Huh??? On the outboard side?

McGiver meets Gomer Pile. That crankset, without the 4th ring, is still on the bike today.

Man alive Bill... every single time I see that Cimarron in the condition you purchased it, I'm filled with different emotions! My initial reaction is always sadness, the thought of what became of a beautiful lugged/fillet brazed American frame! That's about the time that the anger starts boiling, a $900 bike in the 1980's deserves better treatment! Finally, I chill and end up a bit envious of how svelte you managed to thin out your Cimarron. You've inspired me to shoot for the 25 pound mark with one of my Cimarron projects. My Cimarron that was saved from the dumpster, the paint and "Deerhead" XT components cleaned up so nicely, that's one getting outfitted for use as a commuter. So, my other Cimarron that is getting fresh paint and waterslide decals was to be a commuter but now I'll see how feathery I can build it, if I can get close to yours I'll be stoked! I've got a feeling that my other two stock Cimarrons are never going to see the light of day once I'm done with these two custom builds!

Anyway, thanks for the inspiration and the helpful info, you've certainly raised the bar pretty high but it'll be fun to build a skinny Cimarron!

-D-

p.s. Hey Bill, do you know what year your Cimarron was made? My "dumpster" Cimarron is a 1985, my "sanded" Cimarron is a 1988 "LE" model, I have a 1988 "LE" that I bought new ($859.99 plus tax), and a 1989 red one that I bought from my uncle almost 20 years ago. The parts on yours better matches the later models but the green color was only available in 1985 and on the 1988 "LE" model.

Thanks for the kind words. I always get a kick out of buyers that tell me "how lucky you are to have found a vintage bike in such great condition""It looks like it never left the garage", etc. I almost have to laugh. I pick up neglected bikes (why, because they are often CHEAP), and revive them. The old steel bikes are so resilient.

I did learn to separate my flickr pics into two accounts. Buyers who saw some of the before pics got spooked. Oops!

So if I encouraged even just one person to do it, that's the reward to me.

My favorite turn around is my chrome Katakura. Started as a rust covered frame, picked up from a flipper in Charlotte. Put a lot of work into that bike, starting with a full OA treatment. Then I grabbed all the Superbe Pro parts I had accumulated over the years, and rebuilt it. It was a really fun project.

It takes imagination, but there are deals out there if you have the time/tools/aptitude/interest/pile of parts.

Great bike that_guy_zach! I vaguely remember Rock Combo model but had totally forgotten about it. Cool story behind the frame, sneaky Mike Sinyard getting another NorCal builder, Scot Nicol, to create and answer to Grant Petersen's Bridgestone's MB-1. That guy has got some tires on him!!! It appears that the Rock Combo was only made in 1989, any idea how many are out there? I've never seen one for sale around SoCal in my 25+ years of building bikes. I dig the steep angles of the head tube and seat tube! How does it handle in the drops?

Thanks! I have not taken the one pictured out yet with the WTB drops, But they ride great with the stock BB-1 bars. As far as I can tell they made around 500 of them and they were slow sellers. I have 2 now and am always on the hunt for more. They are not super special or magic bikes but they do a good job.

Quote:

Originally Posted by neo_pop_71

Great bike that_guy_zach! I vaguely remember Rock Combo model but had totally forgotten about it. Cool story behind the frame, sneaky Mike Sinyard getting another NorCal builder, Scot Nicol, to create and answer to Grant Petersen's Bridgestone's MB-1. That guy has got some tires on him!!! It appears that the Rock Combo was only made in 1989, any idea how many are out there? I've never seen one for sale around SoCal in my 25+ years of building bikes. I dig the steep angles of the head tube and seat tube! How does it handle in the drops?

How are you folks running your front brake cable? I'm having a difficult time using the stem's cable stop without putting a tight bend in the cable. Does anyone have some decent shots of their setup with the bars unwrapped?

I've even seen some with the cable catchers built in lately. It is definitely a bigger deal with knobbies, but still nice to have something there so the straddle cable doesn't end up on the tire. You might freak out a little on street tread, but with knobbies you either end up ripping the brakes off, or flying over the bars, or both.,,,,BD

How are you folks running your front brake cable? I'm having a difficult time using the stem's cable stop without putting a tight bend in the cable. Does anyone have some decent shots of their setup with the bars unwrapped?

I'm really digging the Stumpjumper striknein, it looks like a champ with the black paint and the "Deerhead" XT set up!

I'm on my third build using the drilled stem cable stop, the trick is getting Odyssey BMX steel braided housing, you can make those tight bends with no issues. The housing is part of Odyssey's "Slic Cable" series, there is tubing inside the housing for perfect braking and release. Here is the current build I'm doing with a Nitto high rise quill stem, SOMA Sparrow bars, and Shimano STI brifters. The flexibility allowed me to run the cable in such a way that it did not obstruct the center hand position near the stem. Initially I tried this set up with the steel/alloy flex housing and there was no way for it to make the bend needed to maintain the central hand positioning. Odyssey was all I ran all those years racing BMX and it's still my go to housing on half my builds. Not even the $100.00 Nokon Cables can match the versatility of the Odyssey, my buddy tried and wasted his dough. Here it is on my Smorgasbord track bike, I love the function and the aesthetic of the steel braiding!

How are you folks running your front brake cable? I'm having a difficult time using the stem's cable stop without putting a tight bend in the cable. Does anyone have some decent shots of their setup with the bars unwrapped?

I use cross levers which makes for a slightly closer bend to the stop on the stem... a traditional hangar should not pose any problems with routing.

These extra levers lets me get back on the bars when I am descending on rougher terrain and allows for a good heads up position while I am riding in the urban jungle too.

The bike stops exceptionally well from either position and the lever action is rather light off the front.