FTTC router installation query

I thought the Open Reach installer/engineer would
only connect the BT modem, check that it worked using
some test equipment then make a quick getaway.

Click to expand...

The chap who installed my FTTC at home this week didn't seem to have any
kit to connect to the line other than a tone generator and linesman's
handset.

Apparently he wasn't expecting to provide me a modem, when I said I'd
need one he shuffled off to his van and after *much* rummaging found an
un-boxed one, PSU was covered in mud and I had to shake bits of glass
and offcuts of wire out of the vents in the case!

He couldn't get any Vodafone signal on his tablet (which had a smashed
screen) so couldn't get the results of the initial sync speed, nor could
he book the job as finished.

I could tell from decreased ping and increased upload speeds that it was
connecting as VDSL, and I knew the download speed was unlikely to
increase until the ISP end noticed the jump in line rate, but a "normal"
customer might be left with an initial impression there had been little
point upgrading to fibre.

I don't expect much whenever a Quinn/Kelly engineer shows up, but it
seemed a pretty low-class installation ... would have preferred wires-only.

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The chap who installed my FTTC at home this week didn't seem to have any
kit to connect to the line other than a tone generator and linesman's
handset.

Apparently he wasn't expecting to provide me a modem, when I said I'd need
one he shuffled off to his van and after *much* rummaging found an
un-boxed one, PSU was covered in mud and I had to shake bits of glass and
offcuts of wire out of the vents in the case!

He couldn't get any Vodafone signal on his tablet (which had a smashed
screen) so couldn't get the results of the initial sync speed, nor could
he book the job as finished.

I could tell from decreased ping and increased upload speeds that it was
connecting as VDSL, and I knew the download speed was unlikely to increase
until the ISP end noticed the jump in line rate, but a "normal" customer
might be left with an initial impression there had been little point
upgrading to fibre.

I don't expect much whenever a Quinn/Kelly engineer shows up, but it
seemed a pretty low-class installation ... would have preferred
wires-only.

Click to expand...

Probably one of the (virtual) zero hour contract contractors who are chasing
their tails all the day due to extreme work loading (we're talking about 10
to 15 job tours on every day)

You should have received a box thru the post a couple of days before the
visit as the field engineers just don't carry new units*** but do carry swap
units (i.e they are not supposed to supply a fresh new one but can swap out
a faulty one as they are now booked in and out via a swap system, 1 for 1)
so I suppose you are lucky he did have a 'spare' but if/when you do get your
new one keep the original as a spare as they can go a little loopy (which is
exactly what they do, loop thru the boot up and back to the beginning
again). Check to see if you haven't received a dreaded card from the
postie, even though the box was supposedly designed to go thru an average
letter box.

***
If the field engineer officially carry 'spare' units they would have to
carry the same for all the providers, as if that is likely (this is where
equivalence rears its ugly head). Puts a smile on my face each time I see
another CP order stating that the field engineer is to supply a router from
his van stock (what van stock) if the end user hasn't received theirs thru
the post.

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a) ideally
b) on the assumption that the engineer will swap faceplates in situ.

Then, when the engineer arrives, offer tea/coffee and biscuits and tell
him what your fairy godmother would do.

Most BTOR engineers are very [,very] helpful and may assist in minor
relocation [especially if H&S is involved - eg cables under carpets are
frowned upon].

Hope you are lucky!

Click to expand...

You may not be...

In my case last year it was a subcontractor of Openreach who told me "I
know what I'm doing" after my asking about his needing a new
faceplate... He simply reused my ADSLnation faceplate filter I had for
the previous ADSL installation and installed his BT modem onto the wall
nearby using my old master. He also insisted nothing, such as my NAS
server, could be plugged into the double mains socket next his modem
supply saying "... a free socket is needed for future test use"!! I've
ignored this, since an alternative is available nearby, outside my
equipment cupboard, should it be needed. I've used a previously
installed cat5e LAN cable to plug into the BT modem and have located my
PPPoE router in a more suitable place for the WiFi signal.

The message here, based on an installation not using a genuine Openreach
technician, is that the BT modem needs -one- dedicated mains socket and
it should be installed near to the filtered master socket but you can
run the Ethernet cable from this to the best place for your WiFi router.

I've got practically maximum speeds, since the copper run carrying the
VDSL signal to the fibre cabinet is less than 200m

In my case last year it was a subcontractor of Openreach who told me "I
know what I'm doing" after my asking about his needing a new
faceplate... He simply reused my ADSLnation faceplate filter I had for
the previous ADSL installation and installed his BT modem onto the wall
nearby using my old master. He also insisted nothing, such as my NAS
server, could be plugged into the double mains socket next his modem
supply saying "... a free socket is needed for future test use"!! I've
ignored this, since an alternative is available nearby, outside my
equipment cupboard, should it be needed. I've used a previously
installed cat5e LAN cable to plug into the BT modem and have located my
PPPoE router in a more suitable place for the WiFi signal.

Click to expand...

I think I was lucky, in that I got an older guy who did seem to know
what he was doing, and it probably helped that my ADSL modem/router
was on a little high corner shelf with a mains extension, an RJ11
phone cable and an ethernet cable already routed there through some
trunking. I had also previously replaced my master socket faceplate
with the one with a built in filter (in an attempt to get better
performance on ADSL, which it did achieve), so all he really had to do
was plug the new modem in and test it.

I also managed to persuade him not to screw the new modem to the wall,
even though he said this was their standard practice. What is the
reasoning behind this? All my previous modems and routers have worked
perfectly well simply placed on desks or shelves, so why do they think
a VDSL modem needs to be screwed to the wall while the separate router
you have to use with it doesn't? I've subsequently replaced the two
separate boxes with a combined VDSL modem/router, which works
perfectly well sitting on the shelf. I don't usually want any
pluggable electrical equipment screwed to the wall, as it makes things
awkward to change, and if I did I'm perfectly capable of drilling
holes in my own wall myself.

The message here, based on an installation not using a genuine Openreach
technician, is that the BT modem needs -one- dedicated mains socket and
it should be installed near to the filtered master socket but you can
run the Ethernet cable from this to the best place for your WiFi router.

Click to expand...

The need for an unshared mains outlet is utter nonsense (although the
modem does need a dedicated one that is plugged and switched on all
the time). In my case, the mains extension cable that goes through the
trunking to the modem shelf shares a wall socket with a Netgear
Powerline adaptor (through its pass-through connector in fact) and it
all works just fine.

a) ideally
b) on the assumption that the engineer will swap faceplates in situ.

Then, when the engineer arrives, offer tea/coffee and biscuits and tell
him what your fairy godmother would do.

Most BTOR engineers are very [,very] helpful and may assist in minor
relocation [especially if H&S is involved - eg cables under carpets are
frowned upon].

Hope you are lucky!

Click to expand...

You may not be...

In my case last year it was a subcontractor of Openreach who told me "I
know what I'm doing" after my asking about his needing a new
faceplate... He simply reused my ADSLnation faceplate filter I had for
the previous ADSL installation and installed his BT modem onto the wall
nearby using my old master. He also insisted nothing, such as my NAS
server, could be plugged into the double mains socket next his modem
supply saying "... a free socket is needed for future test use"!! I've
ignored this, since an alternative is available nearby, outside my
equipment cupboard, should it be needed. I've used a previously
installed cat5e LAN cable to plug into the BT modem and have located my
PPPoE router in a more suitable place for the WiFi signal.

The message here, based on an installation not using a genuine Openreach
technician, is that the BT modem needs -one- dedicated mains socket and
it should be installed near to the filtered master socket but you can
run the Ethernet cable from this to the best place for your WiFi router.

I've got practically maximum speeds, since the copper run carrying the
VDSL signal to the fibre cabinet is less than 200m

Click to expand...

Recently helped a customer by being present for the Openreach engineer's
agreed PM slot - customer had to be at work.

OR engineer actually female, and from Kelly. She rang at 11 am saying
she had finished her previous job early - so could she do ours? Sadly I
had to put her off until I got there so she cleaned her van.

I arrived on site about 12:15

By 12:30 she had reconfigured service in the green cabinet and soon
after arrived on site. I explained that the existing master socket was
in the hallway - very inconvenient for the customer - and that the
builder had run extensions to a bedroom and to the lounge.

She investigated, finding that the extension wiring was standard CW1308
and it ran first to the bedroom then to the lounge. So she jelly
crimped a pair onto the incoming service and fitted the master socket in
the bedroom, exactly where the customer wanted it. I then covered the
opening in the hallway with a blank plate.

The bedroomm had a double mains socket beside the extension so no
problem connecting the OR modem and the Ethernet router that I supplied.

I think I was lucky, in that I got an older guy who did seem to know
what he was doing, and it probably helped that my ADSL modem/router
was on a little high corner shelf with a mains extension, an RJ11
phone cable and an ethernet cable already routed there through some
trunking. I had also previously replaced my master socket faceplate
with the one with a built in filter (in an attempt to get better
performance on ADSL, which it did achieve), so all he really had to do
was plug the new modem in and test it.

I also managed to persuade him not to screw the new modem to the wall,
even though he said this was their standard practice.

Click to expand...

[snip]

The story here appears to be that early practise was to fit the modem to
the wall, otherwise it would likely be left on a shelf and covered with
papers or clothing and would overheat.

Then OR received complaints that the area on the wall would be stained -
generally by dust attracted by air moving up to the device - so they
then stopped wall mounting.

Now I think the engineers are trained to explain, and ask what you want.
I've found they are quite happy to leave the mounting template and
screws for the user.

Sadly most other routers don't have a mounting template even if they do
provide screws and rawlplugs. Early Vigor routers (the 2600 series) had
part of the display box constructed as a template, with holes punched to
mark the screw locations. Some later models came with a ruler in the
box!!!!!

As an aside, I don't think I've ever seen an OR engineer measure the
performance of the VDSL signal. I know it's impossible with the
supplied VDSL modem, but when testing ADSL (agreed only when there is a
fault, not at a routine install) they have their own modem with
management software to tell them all about the line.

Has anybody any experience of OR resolving a problem with VDSL? What
equipment did they use?

I also managed to persuade him not to screw the new modem to the wall,
even though he said this was their standard practice.

Click to expand...

[snip]

The story here appears to be that early practise was to fit the modem to
the wall, otherwise it would likely be left on a shelf and covered with
papers or clothing and would overheat.

Click to expand...

It's a valid argument, and I have actually seen the results of an
ordinary ADSL modem/router being left covered with items of clothing
on a floor (luckily just melted plastic and no fire), but if they
apply this argument to an Openreach (Huawei) VDSL modem, why don't
they apply it to the separate router it needs to be plugged into?

Then OR received complaints that the area on the wall would be stained -
generally by dust attracted by air moving up to the device - so they
then stopped wall mounting.

Now I think the engineers are trained to explain, and ask what you want.
I've found they are quite happy to leave the mounting template and
screws for the user.

Click to expand...

Giving general advice about ventilation, uninterrupted power etc and
leaving it up to the customer seems by far the best policy. Then they
can do their own DIY to their own satisfaction. I have my modem/router
on a high shelf in a corner, where it's out of the way and probably
gives better wireless performance too, and I'm happy. I actually had
no trouble persuading the engineer just to plug the modem in and leave
the rest to me, but I wasn't sure if this was because of the visible
preparations I had already made. I wonder what the more gullible and
ignorant typically end up with?

As an aside, I don't think I've ever seen an OR engineer measure the
performance of the VDSL signal. I know it's impossible with the
supplied VDSL modem, but when testing ADSL (agreed only when there is a
fault, not at a routine install) they have their own modem with
management software to tell them all about the line.

Has anybody any experience of OR resolving a problem with VDSL? What
equipment did they use?

Click to expand...

For work I have on the testing front as I was standing next to him, having
made his next cup of coffee. He had the testing kit with him and, as I had
explained that the whole reason for the line was increased upload speed,
asked if I would check the reading with him and see how it compared with the
ADSL connection next to it.

ADSL upload is 0.8Mbit, VDSL is about 5Mbit. Download is 12Mbit on ADSL,
about 7-8Mbit on VDSL, but the Draytek router load balances well enough to
use each effectively. Given the site and the route to the exchange he was
amazed at the performance. Worked well for us too.

For work I have on the testing front as I was standing next to him, having
made his next cup of coffee. He had the testing kit with him and, as I had
explained that the whole reason for the line was increased upload speed,
asked if I would check the reading with him and see how it compared with the
ADSL connection next to it.

ADSL upload is 0.8Mbit, VDSL is about 5Mbit. Download is 12Mbit on ADSL,
about 7-8Mbit on VDSL, but the Draytek router load balances well enough to
use each effectively. Given the site and the route to the exchange he was
amazed at the performance. Worked well for us too.

Click to expand...

Those ADSL speeds are similar to what I used to have, download being
slightly better in fact, which makes it surprising that your VDSL
download speed should actually be worse. When I changed to VDSL, my
upload speed went from about 1Mb/s to about 5Mb/s, more or less the
same as yours, but download increased from about 10Mb/s to about
25Mb/s. I wonder if you have a line fault of some sort?

At least your upload and download speeds are better balanced, even if
download is slower. A ratio of 10:1 is really no longer suited to
typical usage.

Those ADSL speeds are similar to what I used to have, download being
slightly better in fact, which makes it surprising that your VDSL
download speed should actually be worse. When I changed to VDSL, my
upload speed went from about 1Mb/s to about 5Mb/s, more or less the
same as yours, but download increased from about 10Mb/s to about
25Mb/s. I wonder if you have a line fault of some sort?

At least your upload and download speeds are better balanced, even if
download is slower. A ratio of 10:1 is really no longer suited to
typical usage.

Click to expand...

Part of the intention of VDSL was to improve the upload speed. This is
done by sharing the bandwidth more evenly. So on a long line where the
available bandwidth is severely limited it sometimes happens that the
VDSL download speed is a bit lower than expected. So the issue as to
whether to upgrade in these circumstances is a serious question.

However I would not have expected such a marked change as stated by Mr
Guest. Recently I saw ADSL at 5Mb down and 448k up improve to VDSL at
12Mb down and 1Mb up.

Given he has a Draytek router, he could swap it for a V2860 and make use
of its internal VDSL modem, so would therefore be able to see tha actual
VDSL sync speeds.

Given he has a Draytek router, he could swap it for a V2860 and make use
of its internal VDSL modem, so would therefore be able to see tha actual
VDSL sync speeds.

Or a Billion 8800NL, which is considerably cheaper and contains both
ADSL2+ and VDSL2 modems. That's what I have, and it works well.

Click to expand...

The 2860 also includes both, as well an an Ethernet port (to use with any
BT supplied router in case an engineer arrives) and a USB port (for 3G
backup).

Click to expand...

And VPN support for dial-up and LAN-to-LAN, which it a more useful
feature for support of customers.

Click to expand...

All useful and worthwhile things if you need them, but a pointless
expense if you don't. I don't need 3G backup, as I still have my old
dial-up modem, and I also have the Huawei modem supplied by Openreach
and the Technicolor router supplied by my ISP - they're in a box in my
junk room.

Given he has a Draytek router, he could swap it for a V2860 and make
use of its internal VDSL modem, so would therefore be able to see
tha actual VDSL sync speeds.

Or a Billion 8800NL, which is considerably cheaper and contains both
ADSL2+ and VDSL2 modems. That's what I have, and it works well.

The 2860 also includes both, as well an an Ethernet port (to use with
any BT supplied router in case an engineer arrives) and a USB port
(for 3G backup).

And VPN support for dial-up and LAN-to-LAN, which it a more useful
feature for support of customers.

Click to expand...

All useful and worthwhile things if you need them, but a pointless
expense if you don't. I don't need 3G backup, as I still have my old
dial-up modem, and I also have the Huawei modem supplied by Openreach
and the Technicolor router supplied by my ISP - they're in a box in my
junk room.

Click to expand...

The main point I was making was that the 2860 does both ADSL and VDSL.

Click to expand...

Which is a good one. Not many do have both types. I'm surprised more
don't make it a selling point - future proofing and all that. If you
currently have ADSL and might be thinking of upgrading to FTTC, then
the upgrade itself becomes a lot less complicated as there's no new
cabling, no screwing of new boxes to walls, no changes to wireless or
anything else on your local network; just a single configuration
change in the modem/router and everything carries on as before, except
faster.

Given he has a Draytek router, he could swap it for a V2860 and makeuse
of its internal VDSL modem, so would therefore be able to see tha actual
VDSL sync speeds.

Or a Billion 8800NL, which is considerably cheaper and contains both
ADSL2+ and VDSL2 modems. That's what I have, and it works well.

The 2860 also includes both, as well an an Ethernet port (to use with any
BT supplied router in case an engineer arrives) and a USB port (for 3G
backup).

Click to expand...

And VPN support for dial-up and LAN-to-LAN, which it a more useful
feature for support of customers.

Click to expand...

All useful and worthwhile things if you need them, but a pointless
expense if you don't. I don't need 3G backup, as I still have my old
dial-up modem, and I also have the Huawei modem supplied by Openreach
and the Technicolor router supplied by my ISP - they're in a box in my
junk room.

Rod.

Click to expand...

We had a resilient set up using a Draytek 2930 (superseded by the 2960) in our office.

The main connection was 50Mbps using Virgin cable (VDLS), with an online back up of 8Mbps from BT (ADSL). We routed all the VOIP down the BT connection to minimise latency. We never had a time when both failed together, butone could envisage flood, storm or incompetent road excavators cutting offboth at the same time. We did not buy a 3G (now 4G) dongle, but intended to do so if this happened and we could not borrow Wi-Fi from any of the neighbouring businesses.

Part of the intention of VDSL was to improve the upload speed. This is
done by sharing the bandwidth more evenly. So on a long line where the
available bandwidth is severely limited it sometimes happens that the
VDSL download speed is a bit lower than expected. So the issue as to
whether to upgrade in these circumstances is a serious question.

However I would not have expected such a marked change as stated by Mr
Guest. Recently I saw ADSL at 5Mb down and 448k up improve to VDSL at
12Mb down and 1Mb up.

Given he has a Draytek router, he could swap it for a V2860 and make use
of its internal VDSL modem, so would therefore be able to see tha actual
VDSL sync speeds.

Click to expand...

Have moved office for work now, not a stress-free enterprise! Have two VDSL
connections (data and phones have one each), about 50m from the cabinet. Have
a v2860 variant, forget the actual model, that someone else set up and gave
me the login details for.

Appears on both connections we have 79995Kbps download and 20000Kbps upload,
echoed by the adsl status command from a Telnet session. It's hellishly
responsive compared to before.

Have to say that I might have had a prod of the load-balancing settings so
that I can grab the download bandwidth when no-one is in using the phones.
Just need to sort out home now, supposed to be able to get this new
virginmedia 200Mbps service...

Have moved office for work now, not a stress-free enterprise! Have two VDSL
connections (data and phones have one each), about 50m from the cabinet. Have
a v2860 variant, forget the actual model, that someone else set up and gave
me the login details for.

Appears on both connections we have 79995Kbps download and 20000Kbps upload,
echoed by the adsl status command from a Telnet session. It's hellishly
responsive compared to before.

Have to say that I might have had a prod of the load-balancing settings so
that I can grab the download bandwidth when no-one is in using the phones.
Just need to sort out home now, supposed to be able to get this new
virginmedia 200Mbps service...

Click to expand...

Load balancing is fun! You might find banks and some on-line shops
require several settings, one for each of their IP address ranges. Not
easy to find anybody that knows the answers.

Load balancing is fun! You might find banks and some on-line shops
require several settings, one for each of their IP address ranges. Not
easy to find anybody that knows the answers.

Click to expand...

Yes. I have load balancing on my 2820n. I have simply set it up so
that all HTTPS connections are routed through one WAN connection.
Banks and such do object when they get packets from different IPs in
the same session.

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