January 26, 2010

Some people think the the rules don't apply to them... including some people who got big and famous amusing us with revelations of the way some people think the rules don't apply to them. It's so hilarious.

IN THE COMMENTS: Crack Emcee says:

What's wrong with you people? James O'Keefe did America a big favor once, and I'll wait to hear what he was fishing for this time before I condemn him or call him stupid. If he has a legal defense fund, I'm in. Why should he pay for doing what the media refuses to do? That kid's a hero. Investigative journalism ain't no "15 minutes of fame" bullshit, it's serious business - y'all need to get serious as well.

I support good people - not goodie-goodie - and James O'Keefe's contribution to this latest incarnation of conservatism - The Tea Party Movement - can't be overstated. It's bigger than Scott Brown's, though Brown was in a better situation to have an impact, because these were kids - acting when nobody else would - proving to the world we were right about the corruption of ACORN all along. That was the crack in liberalism's facade and you know it.

This young man realigned our political world. Like I said, I'm with him until I hear more. The fact the rest of you have to think about it, or are assuming anything already, gives me pause:

What is that reporter doing reporting about James O’Keefe? And isn’t it funny that she is leaping to assumptions after she should have read an affidavit that doesn’t back her assumptions up?

Look: I wasn’t there and I therefore don’t know what happened. But O’Keefe has a history of goofy, humorous, over-the-top undercover stunts to make a political point. Wiretapping doesn’t seem like his style. And the facts in the affidavit — especially the lack of reference anywhere to any listening devices in the possession of anyone in the building — suggest to me that’s not what he was doing.

Stupid stupid stupid. If these accusations are true, these guys are screwed. I'll bet the government will not accept a plea because the case will be pretty tight and there are plenty of people wanting an example to be set.

1 yr from now the Supremes amazingly will be hearing this case, and will rule O'Keefe's free speech rights were violated, that the right of free speech includes listening to someone else's private free speech.

People are getting way out of control with their partisan politics. This week we've got a DailyKos clown busted for writing a zillion phoney letters to papers under the name Ellie Light, and a Breitbart moron pulling some Nixonian funny stuff with a Senator's phone system.

Some people think the the rules don't apply to them... including some people who got big and famous amusing us with revelations of the way some people think the rules don't apply to them. It's so hilarious.

It is, kind of. In addition to being clearly illegal, the political environment, with the leadership of the DOJ, makes their conduct doubly stupid.

1 yr from now the Supremes amazingly will be hearing this case, and will rule O'Keefe's free speech rights were violated, that the right of free speech includes listening to someone else's private free speech.

garage, stick with being the perpetually angry liberal because your attempts at comedy blows.

Some people think the the rules don't apply to them... including some people who got big and famous amusing us with revelations of the way some people think the rules don't apply to them. It's so hilarious.

Indeed, O'Keefe didn't think rules applied to him when he recorded the pimp interview without prior consent and then disseminating it. Especially heavily edited, where the interviewee's voice was dubbed over making it impossible to determine what they were really saying.

Now we can see where Lawyers get most of their business from...intelligent people acting stupidly. They need the famous Texas defense lawyer who charges $500,000 , or $1,000,000 if he provides the witnesses.

What's wrong with you people? James O'Keefe did America a big favor once, and I'll wait to hear what he was fishing for this time before I condemn him or call him stupid. If he has a legal defense fund, I'm in. Why should he pay for doing what the media refuses to do? That kid's a hero. Investigative journalism ain't no "15 minutes of fame" bullshit, it's serious business - y'all need to get serious as well.

I support good people - not goodie-goodie - and James O'Keefe's contribution to this latest incarnation of conservatism - The Tea Party Movement - can't be overstated. It's bigger than Scott Brown's, though Brown was in a better situation to have an impact, because these were kids - acting when nobody else would - proving to the world we were right about the corruption of ACORN all along. That was the crack in liberalism's facade and you know it.

This young man realigned our political world. Like I said, I'm with him until I hear more. The fact the rest of you have to think about it, or are assuming anything already, gives me pause:

Crack...I see your point. But this time he was not asking questions, but he was doing an undercover wire tap, that the FBI should have been doing with a Search warrant from a Judge. So he will also incurr the wrath of having committed the worst crime known to law enforcement ... which is Impersonating a Police Officer.

Indeed, O'Keefe didn't think rules applied to him when he recorded the pimp interview without prior consent and then disseminating it. Especially heavily edited, where the interviewee's voice was dubbed over making it impossible to determine what they were really saying.

Garage, you can't feign outrage at what O'Keefe has done, while tripping over yourself to excuse or even deny (despite numerous videotapes) what ACORN employees did. [conspiring to set up prostitution and/or child trafficking rings]

Right is right, wrong is wrong. If we start changing those meanings based on politics, all is lost.

Guys, why the rush do indict? Can't we at least give him the same benefit of the doubt that the Holder DOJ gives self-ignited AQ terrorists, and the media (including Fox!) gives to ALLEGED Fort Hood shooter Maj Hasan?

"Some people think the the rules don't apply to them... including some people who got big and famous amusing us with revelations of the way some people think the rules don't apply to them. It's so hilarious."

Ahh, the intoxicating pull of cruel neutrality.

Imagine, the outcome if these separate crimes were consummated and tell me they even come close.

Garage, you can't feign outrage at what O'Keefe has done, while tripping over yourself to excuse or even deny (despite numerous videotapes) what ACORN employees did. [conspiring to set up prostitution and/or child trafficking rings]

If you didn't notice from my posts I think it's hilarious. More hilarious is watching the little army of breitfart.com morons running around thinking they've uncovered all these eerie and ominous Obama conspiracy theories lurking around every corner. A pimp and a ho walk into an ACORN office and receive tax advice. Oh, and how to traffic humans. I mean seriously. You think these imbeciles uncovered it all? They then alter the audio on the recordings, feed it to FOX for a 24/7 ACORNPALOOZA, and the MSM unquestionably laps it all up like puppies. This country is just too fucking dumb to survive.

While I still condemn this action, what would happen if they got away with it and published the Senator selling her vote or even worse, like some really bad scandal, of which I have insufficient imagination to suggest.

Would we ignore the wiretapping? I'm sure the left would not let that happen, and there would be a big fight over what is more important. Which is a telling aspect of partisanship.

The coverage I'm reading on the right blogosphere is not being shy about acknowledging the wrongness of this crime, if true, and even implying guilt. Quite different from what you see when the tables are turned.

I saw a lot more mindless defense of ACORN for much worse and it continues to this day.

Isn't entering a Federal building under false pretenses a crime? I assume they had to go past a Federal Marshall or some such, and a metal detector, etc. I know in Milwaukee the Federal building is not easy come easy go.

I don't think these guys had any idea how unprankishly this act would be viewed by people in a postion to make their lives miserable.

I wonder what they were really up here. There is nothing in the affadavit about electronic monitoring equipment. They couldn't get much with just a tool belt. Maybe listen in real time if the office was using copper lines, but nothing if they were using a digital circuit for voice service.

It will be interesting, though, if this story disappears. Because whatever they thought they were going to find will come up in open court, and if there's anything there there, the pressure to keep it under wraps will be intense.

A pity. I know the kid stupidly ignored "risk-reward" thinking and violated significant laws. At the least, he blundered himself out of the "good cause" business and will now have some jailtime and a felony record.

On the other hand, IF only we DID have the complete transcripts of Mary Landrieau and her staff's phone conversations over the past two years, they would be facing far more serious indictments and more time behind bars than O'Keefe.

That's the problem. We know the People are being sold out daily to the Ruling Elites. That their future and their children's is being bartered away for the power and insider profits that are being created by Open Borders, selling out the US middle class to cheap global labor oversupply, a wrecked education system, and bank bailouts.

But the people doing it are clever. They are mostly lawyers with a careful eye to what crimes and betrayals they do are provable in a court of law or not.

To make this all a transparent, workable government again would require scrapping the system by Revolution and rewriting the Constitution to take power from the cabals of the Imperial City.

Back when the movie Independence Day came out in 1996, Beltway Elitists were mildly consternated when audiences cheered the alien death beams destroying Washington DC.Now, people half-joke that the problem on 9/11 was the terrorists lacked sufficient planes needed to do a really good job on the NYC bankers and DC cabals.

But honestly - don't you secretly wish that you could listen in whenever you wanted to the private conversations of the people you believe are the bad guys? Especially the ones you know have pulled the wool over everyone else's eyes?

So I don't usually comment much, but I am a phone guy and here's the thing:

The phone room of a large office building has thousands of pairs of wires, and dozens of "smart jacks" that provide digital circuits. If you've ever been in one you will know it is almost impossible to pick out one small group of lines for one tenant without the road map provided by the carriers (outside dial tone guys) or the guys who did the inside wiring.

My point here is that these kids may very well do hard time for an act that had zero chance of ever being effective. There is no way they would luck into the Senator's lines and then be able to go to town. There are no neon signs saying "Landrieu lines here!"

I find this whole thing sad and fascinating. I do wonder what they were planning and if we will ever know.

"There is nothing in the affadavit about electronic monitoring equipment."

And I'm seeing a whole lot of statements as fact that they were trying to bug Landrau's phone.

Trespassing in a public place might be against the law. Giving false information going through security is probably against the law, seeing as it's federal offices and all. (Did they? Or did they use their own ID's?)

Actually tapping a phone is something else. Since the whole "recording someone without their consent" has what's his face in court ATM, he can't possibly not know the difference.

My guess?

The kid who's dad is a US Attorney, says... Hey, you know how easy it is to just walk past security in those buildings? I do it all the time and they don't even check.

The other guys say, yeah, but so? You can't get anything past the metal detectors.

And one of the other guys says, we could walk through with all sorts of technical looking gadgets and metal crap if we look like maintenance people.

And the other one says, but not ones that work there... computer guys or something.

Or phone repair.

Ooohhhh!

So, how far do you think we'd get before they stopped us?

How far did they get?

They seem to have gotten all the way to Mary Landreau's telephone closet, even having "forgotten" their work badges and ID's, before anyone called security and stopped them.

By the by... can they claim not to have been "impersonating" anyone if they didn't have any false identification on them whatsoever?

How curious! There was a Washington Post story just recently about how Paul Harvey had tried to break into the Argonne National Laboratory in 1951, to demonstrate that security was lax. He was caught within seconds, and had to be bailed out by J. Edgar Hoover. Sound even vaguely familiar?

I don't know whose footing the tab, but they have one of the best criminal defense attnys in Louisiana--and the nation--representing them in Eddie Castaing, a close friend of mine since undergrad days at LSU. (even if he won't admit it publicly :) ) He successfully represented the RNs who were charged by the La. Attny Gen. with the Katrina patient deaths at Memorial Hosp.

[I'm going to repost this earlier comment; it'd be great if - instead of just playing around - Althouse could find a legal expert with experience in this area to weigh in]

I just read the affidavit. It doesn't say anything about "bugging" or "wiretapping", it only claims they were trying to "interfere" with the phone system. This is one of those things blawgers are supposed to discuss, but Insty and volokh.com just link to reports.

In any case, if anyone wants to do things in a perfectly legitimate and highly effective way that will raise the level of debate in the U.S., help promote this plan. I've been promoting that in vain for almost three years, and if Breitbart had followed it instead of posting tea party screeds and the like he'd have had a far greater impact than he's had. Of course, that plan requires people who aren't compromised, and it's difficult to find many people like that.

The term "men" is used very selectively by some women, particularly when wanting to make sure we get the point that these individuals are liable. I have a daughter that age, and a number of guys in that general age group work for me, and they are kids and lads to me, if not to the legal system and somber stern women.

He's an adult, so face the potential consequences of his actions he must, regardless and however it plays out. Full stop.

Still, it's a shame--had certain people been more concerned in nurturing his talent than exploiting his "get," or even expressed both in equal measure, perhaps things would be playing out differently.

Of course, we'll never know, now.

In this case, the stain deserves spreading--not legally, necessarily (I have no idea), but certainly morally and ethically. It's easy to encourage and even easier to exploit; to mentor is much, much harder and requires a discipline which--to put too fine a point on it--O'Keefe was far from being alone in failing to exercise.

I have said throughout that I think what they did was stupid and most likely criminal. I don't expect any leniency to be shown them.

I do think it is unfortunate that they may end up paying dearly for something that is more silly than nefarious.

The kid who hacked Palin's email was mentioned. The difference here is that he probably never left his room. Today's deeds may have been ultimately less intrusive than that, but these events took place on Federal property and so the penalty will reflect that.

These events suggest a mixture of youth and hubris that is quite common. They set out to do something they could not have done anyway because they probably did not know how. And it's a shame that their lives will be negatively affected maybe forever over this.

Calling them lads and kids is my way of offering forgivenes for misplaced youthful exuberance. I don't expect the Federal Prosecutors to feel the same way.

I'm not sure what the equivalent right side organization would be to ACORN, or if that's even possible, but if there was one and some young people did what they did and undcovered similar stuff like at ACORN, and then did this to a Republican senator, I would feel the same about it:

I'd be proud of what they did in exposing the organization, I be impressed with their determination to find more corruption and I would be disappointed in that they chose so poorly the method this time.

I also would be somewhat forgiving due to their age, there are few things as universally explanatory of stupidity as being young.

Is this really so hard for us all to agree on, or are we wrapped that tight?

Meanwhile, it seems the FBI is alleging O'Keefe was an accessory, apparently because he happened to be sitting right there in plain sight.

On it's face, it doesn't add up. If O'Keefe was involved, what did he hope to accomplish; show how easy it is to waltz into the senator's office and bug her phones in broad daylight? Not much here, even if it worked. And where was the FBI, waiting in the wings?

Maybe. Maybe not. It's early days yet. I'll state up front I'm not a lawyer or of related professions/expertise. Still, it seems to me that--so far--it's just as likely that more, and more serious charges, might be brought going forward as it is that the case will be dropped altogether.

To people who *are* lawyers or of related professions/expertise: Am I off-base with regard to that thought?

How could the Senator's office know what the intentions were without a doubt?

Were they Mirandized on the spot?

Trespassing in a public place might be against the law

How can one trespass in a public place if said public place is open to the public?

OK -- the closet might technically not be open to the public.

It was wrong. I'm sure they'll pay a price for this. But it will be interesting to see how overkill-ish it will be, given that Eric probably hearts Bertha. (Landrieau's statement seems a bit heavy handed, given the situation. Maybe they are doing the fear-of-God thing. But then ML is still stinging from being faulted for selling her vote for 300 million pieces of silver.)

Not to muddy the waters though -- what happened again to those New Back Panther guys who were intimidating voters (on video) with sticks casually swinging at a public polling place in PA?

I just like things to be fair and balanced. Like the New Black Panthers. Yes, and Sandy Berger. And ACORN. Several ACORNs. And the VP mail hacker. (BTW - MOST hackers don't leave their rooms. And still some end up at Motel, Fed all expenses paid.)

What expenses could possibly need "bankrolling". They just dressed up and walked in offices. Everything they have done, is well within the capabilities of most college students, in terms of financing, motivation, and recklessness.

I wouldn't be surprised if this turns out to be a well planned stunt that's quite more than it appears today.

These guys are 24 and 25 years old. Their age is no excuse. They did something stupid, at best, but seriously stupid. If they had a listening device, then they're in deeper trouble. But as a few have noted, $10K is chump change for bond. They're not on the way to Gitmo.

I wonder how many of you rooting for these morons are hoping they also bugged Bobby Jindal's office - if you knew anything about the story of that $300 million bucks you'd know that he and his top medical administrator Alan Levine were lobbying our entire congressional delegation and the Obama administration for help with that for a year. Landrieu was stupid to make it part of the health care debate process, but it's a shame those guys have run for cover and let her take all the heat.

I am confident that Jim Letten, the U.S. Attorney in our district, a Republican appointed by W, will be completely honorable and fair in dealing with these guys. As I've said several times here before, Letten is the absolute best thing to happen to New Orleans, not just post-Katrina, but possibly ever.

It didn't occur to me that penetrating a Federal building under false pretenses was a terrorist act, but if the Guantanamo cell fits, send O'Keefe right over. Let him be tried by a military commission.

I sincerely hope they didn't Mirandize him.

What O'Keefe did to reveal the corruption at ACORN was brave and admirable

s/corruption/sense of humor/

Why conservatives fear poor people getting housed is beyond me -- we've talked about the Golden Rule and "the least of My brethren" often enough. Christians have to walk the walk, not just talk the talk.

This is one of those events where you let the facts make their way out of the bag and breath a bit before conclusions are drawn.

If true, they should be punished just enough to deter others from doing the same type of nonsense.

As much as many dislike politicians and cling to the mantra that they are all crooks or up to machinations for ruling elites, we would still hate someone messing with us illegally on our jobs or in our homes.

It's side nonsense like this that keeps anything on the political front from gettting done in this country. (Or, I should modify that and say, "Anything that I want from getting done").

Honestly, why isn't every Senator's phone available to the public. What does Landrieu have to hide?

Since every Senator's phone is NOT available to the public, there's no reason to ask what Landrieu has to hide. That's crappy logic.

Most communications can be gotten with an FOI request, can't they? I don't know. I do know that when public officials' emails and calls are made public, they are first redacted for the privacy of their constituents.

"Councilman X, I need help. There is a serious drug operation down the street from my house, and police officer's car is often parked there. I can't call the NOPD because it looks like that cop is in on the action. Can you help me get this information to the FBI? My name is Y, and I live at 1234 Honest Citizen Way. Please don't tell your contacts who I am; these dudes will kill me."

Also, Landrieu is on the Homeland Security Committee - by all means, let everyone in Yemen listen in.

garage, if I wasn't clear, what I meant by that was she was stupid to make the deal to solve that $300 million formula funding gap a contigency for her vote to allow debate on the health care bill. Yes, they both are about health care, but there are limits to how quid pro quo can be pulled off. She screwed up, but she did it as part of an overall effort by our elected state officials, as the one most in a position to get it accomplished.

They also allegedly had an accomplice in a car nearby with a listening device. Just what were these clowns up to?

You wanna act like it's some small thing. I don't want some extremist nutcases going into my Senators' offices and fucking with the phones with listening devices and so forth. There's people in our prisons who did a lot less than that, so I hope they throw the book at these idiots and they don't just get probation.

I was going to say that the way this has been handled in general by r/w bloggers is indicative of a "smarts gap", but I guess there really isn't much of a gap, or it's more of an oscillating kind of thing.

Hint: instead of anyone repeating the claim that they were "trying to bug" the office, read the gov't documents. They only say they were "interfering". Then, find a communications lawyer to explain what all of it means, and use that to help discredit those making "bugging" claims, while at the same time not excusing whatever they were doing. It should be easy, but I have yet to see anyone else besides me even attempt part of that.

You won't find Althouse, Instapundit, or volokh.com doing that. Are there any blawgs that are willing to do something besides link to the MSM and repeat their claims?

LoafingOaf: Let's try an intellectual honesty test. List some possibilities for that "listening device", some possibilities why it's not (at least yet) part of the case, some possibilities regarding the statement from the anon official, and some possibilities why they'd have such a device, assuming they had it at all. Really think about it just as honestly as you can.

No reason to let our respect for the law drown out a little bit of healthy curiosity about what he thought he'd find. Hard to see what could go worse for the signatory to the Louisiana Purchase.

O'Keefe is savvy enough to pick juicy targets, and I suspect he had a lead. But obviously, he went too far this time.

It's a pity that timid prosecutors -- the kind who will be all over this case -- don't have the cahones to go after NYT and Washington Post journalists who crack open the deepest national security secrets.

In comparison to what? Generally, they want people to be able to bond out quickly, unless they're a violent threat to the community. But you don't get a $10,000 bond (especially if you have no criminal history and you're not accused of anything violent) unless you're charged with something serious. Crack dealers and burglars often get lower bonds than this guy, and I think those are pretty serious crimes. My point was not that this was some incredibly high bond that was a burden for him to post. My point was, he's facing serious felony charges, and he is.

Lonewacko: I don't know what you're getting at. I'll let this case play out in court. All I'm saying is, they're facing serious charges and their credibility is going down the drain. It's looking like they'll soon be convicted felons.

I didn't care for the O'Keefe/Giles tactics against ACORN even though I'm not actually a fan of ACORN. Those two were heppy to destroy peoples' lives to score some political points, using hidden cameras and highly edited footage. So, I have no compassion for what looks like James O'Keefe ruining his own reputation and future with felonies. He's a "the ends justify the means" and "who cares if I destroy some peoples' lives with my shady tactics" type of political extremist.

When you hear they had a "listening device", that sounds pretty bad, doesn't it? They were obviously trying to listen in on phone calls, right?

Then, you realize that even AllahPundit - who, while careful and level-headed isn't that bright - has been able to come up with an alternative explanation. And, there are no doubt a multitude of others. So, since the blawgers have failed us, let's see if we can come up with a list of possibilities for the device and the whole thing.

+1 for benefit of the doubt, wait and see, nobody could be that stupid, this must be a play-fake or an attempt to get something on the record or something...and if indeed the full-monty worst-case scenario is true, these yonkers are in for it! If only all offenders could receive the justice they deserve.

I don't really get people defending this shit. Is Crack Emcee really gonna send checks to James O'Keefe's defense? Why? He approves of a bunch of political exremist ass-clowns entering a U.S. Senator's offices on false pretenses to fuck with the phone system? Why is that considered legitimate journalist tactics?

They will score every single point you and your brain-brothers at (whatever that execrable link was) want to have put across, but will do it in fairly good English without mouthbreathing bile. So in theory, I might read it.

The lives of some of the amoral criminals ACORN likes to hire. But they're lefties, so it's cool.

Anyway, if the allegations against O'Keefe are true then he should most certainly be punished. He's done more real journalism in the last year than the NYT has, but there's no "I was researching my next news piece" exception to the criminal codes.

I was a telephone repairman for many years and Yeah, these guys were real dumb.They could have asked a real repairman for a few tips....First, the Phone Company is too cheap to send in more than one repairman, and second, there is no need to go into the congressmans office to listen in. It can be done at MANY points, all of them completely safe....

You know, it should be pointed out that there is ZERO EVIDENCE so far, other than the FBI agent's mind-reading, that the intent here was to bug the phones. All they know for sure is that the guys asked to see the phone closet.

Then what? They weren't carrying tools, you know. Or wires or radio transmitters or supermicrominiaturized battery-powered KGB surplus bugs. There's no way they could have bugged the phones.

That's just an element of drama the FBI agent added, to make it seem far more dark and serious than it is.

Because, you know, in fact what they did is exactly what they did to ACORN. They bullshitted their way into an office, and then planned to record what happened there.

The problem is that they forgot that the one thing the law protects viciously is the property of the lawyers. It's not a felony offense to bullshit your way into ACORN offices -- but it sure is to bullshit your way into a Senator's office.

They probably had some ludicrous idea that everyone was equal under the law, so if the law protected (or failed to protect) a private citizen, it would do no less (and no more) to protect a Senator. But we don't live in such egalitarian days any more. The sacred persons of Senators are far more important than those of we mere peasants.

This sounds bad and stupid. It seems as though their plan was extremely stupid, and it's not clear to me how they would have even tapped a phone as the affidavid does not mention any equipment that would do anything like that. These guys were probably just dumb... but I do wonder if they expected to get arrested. Why record a fake phone repairman's conversation with an office worker? Bizarre.

There is no way they would luck into the Senator's lines and then be able to go to town. There are no neon signs saying "Landrieu lines here!"

All they need is a Tone & Tracer. The affidavit says they were fooling with the receptionist phone. No big deal to throw a toner on that line and trace it back in the closet. I don't know what kind of PBX they're using, and I'm not a PBX guy anyway, but they could identify the line easily enough. I'm not sure what that would accomplish though.

Presumably, it being a federal building they have one PBX running all the phones, (the US Marshall's office, FBI, senator's office, etc) right? But...that's not the way you'd approach that anyway right? You could do that easier from a manhole out in the street.

Nah...had to be some kind of sting about the interactions with the staff or something. But what?

I find this whole thing sad and fascinating. I do wonder what they were planning and if we will ever know.

Me too. I haven't got a clue what they could have thought they were going to accomplish. I wonder how the FBI caught they guy down the street in the car...unless they had some surveillance set up. Maybe once they caught them they checked building security tapes and saw them getting out of the car 15 minutes earlier?

It reminds me of the Tiger Woods case. At first all we knew was Mrs. Woods with a sand wedge in the driveway. Later we find out about 15 or 20 other women, Ambien, all the rest.

Here's an innocent question [since I don't know what answer to expect]: Did the crew at "60 Minutes" [or other media] ever enter a federal building "under false pretenses"? If so, were they even charged, let alone prosecuted?

If we are going to be so adamant against people who take journalistic risks that really endanger no one in an attempt to find corruption, then we need to start voting for better people. What these people attempted to do, is what will catch terrible cases of corruption.

You know they are going on right now and lots of em. Who is looking for them? Even the liberal press which loves to catch Republicans is too lazy to find much. We usually learn of congressional scandal long after the damage is done. After they have completed their lifelong career of stealing, lying, and nest feathering.

I want more investigation not less, I hope this doesn't cool off the motivated.

If they break the law, then convict and punish, but when no harm is attempted other than to the politician's or their corrupt staff's career, I'm not not looking for a rope to hang them.

I doubt what these people did was the only law being broken in that building that day or today.

I seriously doubt they were trying to do a wiretap. Landrieu's office probably has digital service (T1, PRI or VOIP), it would be pretty tough to tap into that unless you know what your doing. I doubt these kids have a clue.

They were probably just trying to make Mary look stupid, which really isn't that hard.

I hope it comes out ok for them.

But you highlighted comment is right about them doing the job the press should be doing.

The "listening device" in a car outside could have been a cell phone. The horror! But if they expected to get arrested they'd need someone to know right away and not when they got around to getting a phone call.

And if someone is pretending to be a phone repairman they ask to see the phones to keep up the charade. It doesn't even suggest they intended to do anything at all with the phones.

How long did it take before security was called?

And you know why? I bet the young men had short haircuts (likely more expensive than felons who get $10,000 bonds can afford) were "clean" and, yes, were rather pale.

And hey, how noble is it when some idiot chains herself to a federal building and gets arrested. A hero! How noble is it when some idiot walks through security to prove a point? A criminal!

The defenses of ACORN amaze me. "Heavily edited?" There is no way but keep upping the "edited" level. I watched them and they did not seem edited just because there wasn't movie quality surround sound. The dialogs were lengthy as one ACORN worker after another did her best to "help". Giles' and O'Keiffe's dialog could be removed completely and the context would still be there.

Ruining people's lives is when money that should have been helping the poor get houses is used to encourage people to skirt the law, bury your money in the back yard, lie on your tax returns, support prostitution as just another choice for young people, make sure you keep those kids out of sight so too many questions aren't asked, make sure they don't say the wrong things to the wrong people, and, oh, teach them to read, ok?

Misusing money, particularly government money, and failing to deliver the value that was promised is a classic investigative journalism sort of thing. That never happens any more.

I realize that for many, actual evidence that "poor" have been helped and their lives have been improved is irrelevant. The only reason this could be is if it's about feeling good about yourself for supporting the idea and not at all about actually helping people.

Which is exactly why "conservatives" are against "helping" the poor get houses. There's never any accountability to figure out if anyone is actually helped or not. (How many people "helped" were plunged into disaster and bankruptcy by being given mortgages they didn't qualify for and couldn't pay? How is this not *destroying* people?)

Everyone is very busy and very self-congratulatory about helping those poor people, and they don't even have decent employee training and education, leaving these unfortunate "helpful" women out to hang when all they were doing was what they were supposed to do.

Anyone who actually cares about the poor as real people living in real communities and who also supports and excuses ACORN is a liar. But they've got to say the right sort of "caring" things while ACORN sucks in available funds and goes to court to claim they have a constitutional right to collect tax dollars and operate without scrutiny from the Congress.

But go on and try to shame "conservatives" for not wanting to help the poor. It worked for years, after all.

money that should have been helping the poor get houses is used to encourage people to skirt the law, bury your money in the back yard, lie on your tax returns, support prostitution as just another choice for young people

OK, so where are the actual whorehouses filled with Third World children that ACORN has facilitated? The actual tax return liars? The back yards filled with ill-gotten gains?

The only thing that did happen: Two well-scrubbed college kids come into your office with a cock-and-bull story. Things are slow just at the moment, so you play along. Then you get fired for having a sense of humor.

How many people who got their houses through ACORN offices and with the help of ACORN advisers are still in them after the crash?

Or, those Annenburg funds that Obama helped administer... are there any hard numbers or measurements of success?

In both of these cases the investigative journalist could find out that either program was a huge success. Both are/were relevant to current events and could have ridden the swell of public interest if pursued in a timely manner.

Just because what they did was illegal doesn't make it wrong. "Illegal" is not equivalent to "wrong".

It seems likely to me that they didn't have any plan to tap anyone's phone; but were there instead to record video on their cellphones, in a public building, of public employees supposedly working for the public.

And the public employees responded by charging them with the most severe thing that they could dream up that seemed plausible. "With intent to commit a felony"? What sort of bullshit is that?

Wonder if the whole thing --the bust --was planned, with the object of drawing information out of the senator's connections with ACORN ? Should the senator make an effort to keep the case out of the courts, that's a chunk of info, and the kids will walk with a coup in hand. That boy O'Keefe strikes me as a step or two ahead of most of us, and on a mission, to boot.

Pastafarian is on the scent here.. "Thought crimes," eh? The FBI has been watching too many Tom Cruise films. Brave New World indeed....and 1984 has come and gone--about time I guess--especially in the Age of Obama.

Resolution: Whereas Hannah Giles and James O'Keefe III filmed investigatory videos uncovering the fraudulent and illegal practices of the Association of Community Organization for Reform Now (ACORN);

Whereas the House of Representatives voted [unconstitutionally - AL] to completely defund ACORN on September 17, 2009;

Whereas these videos resulted in the potential annual savings of millions of taxpayer dollars to organizations that contract with ACORN;

Whereas Hannah Giles and James O'Keefe III have displayed exemplary actions as government watchdogs and young journalists uncovering wasteful government spending; and

Whereas Hannah Giles and James O'Keefe III are owed a debt of gratitude by the people of the United States: Now, therefore, be it

Resolved, That the House of Representatives-

(1) honors Hannah Giles and James O'Keefe III for their work as investigative journalists;

(2) commends Hannah Giles and James O'Keefe III for bringing to light the fraudulent behavior of the Association of Community Organization for Reform Now (ACORN) and helping save millions of taxpayer dollars that otherwise would have funded ACORN; and

(3) respectfully requests the Clerk of the House to transmit an enrolled copy of this resolution to Hannah Giles and James O'Keefe III.

Alpha, you descend to a whole new level of stupid when you accuse "da GOP" of "honoring criminals" (plural? of course, Hannah is accused of nothing) when at the time, neither of them was accused of a crime.

Or is any opposition to Obama, ACORN, Gramsci, etc., a crime?

TW: undfase. O'Keefe seemed undfase-d and, if you look at his twitter feed, it says a few lines down that '2010 is going to get heavy' or some such. Wonder how long this has been brewing.

I looked at Crack's post that so many of the conservatives here have found so persuasive.

He is basically saying "this guy has been one of our helpful activists, so we should back him, regardless of whether or not he broke the law. Ends justify the means."

This is an immoral position. It says that law breaking is an acceptable tactic if it helps Republicans.

Man, I am loving this O'Keefe guy! He is exposing the moral depravity of the conservative movement.

And...

"O'Keefe wore a dress shirt and normal clothing when he was in the ACORN offices, but spliced in shots of himself wearing the pimp outfit in the final videos to make it appear that he had worn them in the meetings with ACORN."

He's learned well from his conservative elders how to lie and deceive.

It’s exactly the same thing I said for the state dinner. You must not allow — the Secret Service must come down on these peoples in the White House like a box of rocks. You don’t do anything to hurt security for the president or for a senator or anybody else. You don’t mess around with it. Ever, ever, ever, ever. … We have enough [evidence] to, I believe, condemn.

Dave W., Toning back a phone is not the same as toning back a line wher the source of dial tone is. If you think it's a snap for someone with little or no experience to ID lines in a multi-tenant multi-story office building, I may be able to offer you a job.

Oh, and you didn't say "da GOP" either. I would have been better off using single quotes, which I think are appropriate for a paraphrase.

Try this rephrase, then, you pedantic cocksucker:

Alpha, you descend to a whole new level of stupid when you accuse 'da GOP' of 'honoring criminals' (plural? of course, Hannah is accused of nothing) when at the time, neither of them was accused of a crime.

Or is any opposition to Obama, ACORN, Gramsci, etc., a crime?

Anything? Crickets?

And if not actually a formal, literal sucker of cocks (I forget if you're openly gay like DTL), you are more of one than I am a liar. Can't fix your damage with Strunk & White, at any rate.

Or put it this way: I may be fat but you are ugly, stupid and wicked, and I can diet.

OT: I have been rebuked in the past for using the epithet "cocksucker," by people who had the job ;-) Must watch that. Not for your sake of course, no AL need apply.

How has this in fact become a term of opprobrium? Among women, at any rate, it should be welcomed, nurtured, cherished. Even among gays I suppose it is a kindly act. I think it has some of the connotations of "brownnoser" or "toady" or "lickspittle." Comments?

AL, in the old days, you calling me a liar to my face would be all the excuse I'd need - I mean legally - to blow your brains out. Unless, of course, you apologized and apologized handsomely; that "sorry you took offense at my harmless/true remark" shit didn't fly in the age of the code duello.

There is a difference between being wrong and being a liar, which it is a common leftist tactic to elide.

Which practice should end, or be ended. By, as you put it, any means necessary.

One report I read tonight speculates these guys were trying to put the office phones out of commission then see how the staffers reacted - would they ignore it? laugh at constituents not being able to get through? There's been some local conservative complaints about not getting through on the phone to Landrieu's office - I've called in the past with no trouble, but no idea if it's the case now. I email her, and get a reply usually.

If that's the set-up, I can't see where they're in deep shit legally. I guess it would have been too boring to record their efforts to get through to the senator's office and demonstrate if the complaints were accurate.