Hello. I throw mostly backhand drives now, pretty accurate up to 300 feet, mostly using lighter Blizzard line discs such as Boss and Katana. I also have many other lightweight discs, including the TeeDevil which I want to ask y'all about.For accuracy I thow leopard beause that thing just suits me so well. Anyway... Usually I don't have an issue with any of my discs, every disc I know how to throw and how they work but this damned Blizzard TeeDevil does not seem to follow any logic whatsoever based on their flight rating values.I mean like what's up with the turnover properties it has? It does not matter how hard of a hyzer angle I throw it at, it always just flips over to the right like someone threatened it with a gun or something. I'm telling you, this disc feels haunted. Either haunted, or it has a turn of -8.My Vulcan, with a turn of -4 does not flip over nearly as much as TeeDevil does and Katana does not even come close. My Boss and Destroyer do this some times when thrown extremely fast and because of that I throw them at a slight hyzer angle and they just straighten themselves out no problem.Now I do realize that lightweight discs flip over more easily (this TeeDevil is rated at 137 grams) and that could be the reason mut Boss does not do this at all, it has a bit different flight values but it behaves entirely differently (I gotta mention that my Boss is a damn beat up disc already, been using it for around 350 rounds now.)

Is there a reason why a disc with -1 turn behaves entirely differently from another disc with the same turn rate, or is it some entirely different flight value that determines the discs tendency to flip over in a shot, or do I just throw the said discs differently?Oh and the flipover on teedevil is no "accident", it happens over and over again, even reliably so. I threw my record of 460 feet with it while doing a nice anhyzer glide shot in a soccer field, from one goal to other and way beyond. With straight shots or slightly curved hyzers I can reach 320 feet at best, so that single 460 feet throw was an absolute beast of a throw and a clear record for me.

Now what I really just want to know is that does TeeDevil do this for all of you or is mine broken?

The numbers mean VERY little. The shape of the disc is what actually matters, and the wider the rim the harder they are to make consistently. And the Blizzard discs seem to be even harder than normal ones, so they might well fly totally differently from how they should.

Parks wrote:If the posts on this forum are any indication, the PD is like a Teebird with sunshine coming out of its butthole so hard that it flies faster.

Yeah, sounds about right. My Champion Mako also has a turn rating of 0 but it doesn't hyzer to the right at all, I can do pretty much whatever I want with it and it'll just keep going until it loses its speed and it'll fade slightly.Guess I've got to forget the values and focus on the feeling instead.

Cryu wrote:Yeah, sounds about right. My Champion Mako also has a turn rating of 0 but it doesn't hyzer to the right at all, I can do pretty much whatever I want with it and it'll just keep going until it loses its speed and it'll fade slightly.Guess I've got to forget the values and focus on the feeling instead.

A bit confused by what you mean by "has a turn rating of 0 but it doesn't hyzer to the right at all"? If you're a right handed backhand player then hyzer angle is always to the left, and if you mean it isn't turning over then it's not supposed to, the 0 means it should just go straight.

Parks wrote:If the posts on this forum are any indication, the PD is like a Teebird with sunshine coming out of its butthole so hard that it flies faster.

Cryu wrote:....also has a turn rating of 0 but it doesn't hyzer to the right at al...

A bit confused by what you mean by "has a turn rating of 0 but it doesn't hyzer to the right at all"? If you're a right handed backhand player then hyzer angle is always to the left, and if you mean it isn't turning over then it's not supposed to, the 0 means it should just go straight.

Ah, of course I meant hyzer to the left, a typo on my part there.Another fine case of the numbers not meaning anything would be to compare champ Groove (turn -2) and Boss (turn 0), at least for me it seems that groove hyzers to the left immediately after throw where Boss keeps the straight line for a while.My arm isn't as powerful as many of you so of course it'll hyzer more but I'd still figure that Boss would hyzer more heavily with that turnrate.

I'm starting to realize why Discraft doesn't have such a specific flight system.

p.s. Starting to love my Glow Champ Mako more and more, it seems to fly very much like the frisbees you use for playing catch

You'll learn that the numbers are basically guidelines, especially when you move from one plastic to another. They give you a decent starting point, but experience is the only thing that's going to give you a true feel for how to buy. Even with one mold, there can be pretty big differences in the same plastics. I saw some Q-Astras this year that had to be 0/4 based on the PLH and amount of wing under the disc.

Cryu wrote:....also has a turn rating of 0 but it doesn't hyzer to the right at al...

A bit confused by what you mean by "has a turn rating of 0 but it doesn't hyzer to the right at all"? If you're a right handed backhand player then hyzer angle is always to the left, and if you mean it isn't turning over then it's not supposed to, the 0 means it should just go straight.

Ah, of course I meant hyzer to the left, a typo on my part there.Another fine case of the numbers not meaning anything would be to compare champ Groove (turn -2) and Boss (turn 0), at least for me it seems that groove hyzers to the left immediately after throw where Boss keeps the straight line for a while.My arm isn't as powerful as many of you so of course it'll hyzer more but I'd still figure that Boss would hyzer more heavily with that turnrate.

I'm starting to realize why Discraft doesn't have such a specific flight system.

p.s. Starting to love my Glow Champ Mako more and more, it seems to fly very much like the frisbees you use for playing catch

I hear you; I have a Star, Proto-stamp TeeDevil that is an overstable son-of-a-bitch. Imagine my surprise and frustration when I figured out champ Bosses were understable, squirrelly bitches. I replaced them with Echo Star Destroyers; a much better fit for the spot I was trying to fill (high-speed/overstablish). If you can find a place that will let you throw discs before you buy, that's the way to go. When I'm in Austin, I shop at Disc Nation for this very reason. Unfortunately, I'm not there very often, so I end up buying a lot from Disc Golf Center. San Antonio has a pretty weak (but growing) disc golf culture.

I must have bad luck when purchasing discs. Now that I think about it, I have a Champ Roadrunner that flies like a Valk's numbers would suggest. Surprisingly, it makes for a very reliable roller.

PMantle wrote:I have a Champion Leo that will not turn. Was not what I bought it for, but boy does it come in handy in the woods.

I bought two Champ Leos from DGC a while back and one was like yours, overstable, and the other more what you would expect. I am actually happy they came that way since I didn't have to wait for at least one to beat in and the other I can use in a bit of a headwind. And, yes, they are wizardry on wooded holes. Easily one of the most versatile discs in my bag and certainly one of my favorites. I can thread it through a tight, 250' tunnel shot or air it out a bit on an open, 350' hole. Great disc.

PMantle wrote:I have a Champion Leo that will not turn. Was not what I bought it for, but boy does it come in handy in the woods.

Yeah, and my 2nd run C-FD fly like Champ TeeBirds, they're not for turning. Love 'em. =) (And I've got 6 identical ones so I'll probably die before I run out of them, at the rate I wear out/lose discs.)

Parks wrote:If the posts on this forum are any indication, the PD is like a Teebird with sunshine coming out of its butthole so hard that it flies faster.

It's all good. After experimenting with the TeeDevil, I've found it to work great for anhyzer/turnover shots, securing a place in my bag, permanently.

I've also made a notion of the dome differences in various discs. The aforementioned Blizzard TeeDevil is straight out flat where Blizzard Boss has a great dome.Does anyone know how this affects the flight? Just thinking about this because I heard someone say that flatter profiled discs are better suited for overhead shots.

PMantle wrote:You'll learn that the numbers are basically guidelines, especially when you move from one plastic to another. They give you a decent starting point, but experience is the only thing that's going to give you a true feel for how to buy. Even with one mold, there can be pretty big differences in the same plastics. I saw some Q-Astras this year that had to be 0/4 based on the PLH and amount of wing under the disc.

Numbers are pretty much just guidelines. The plastic type, PLH, weight & dome have a lot more to do with it than the numbers companies give the disc. As far as your Blizzard discs go, I bought a Blizzard dis a few days ago & it sucks . I already have my bag setup how I want it & have backups at my house so I decide to use some money I won from a league I'm in to tryout something weird/new. So I bought a 150 Blizzard Destroyer (Heaviest one the shop had) & decide to try it out while playing a round with my friends. It was the biggest piece of crap I've ever throw. No matter how much hyzer I put on it it will always flip up, turnover then turn into a roller. I will never buy a Blizzard/Opto Air disc ever again & don't see any use for the Blizzard Destroyer I have now accept maybe to give it to my girl, she does better with lighter discs & will far way better with it than I have.

DiscinFiend wrote:So I bought a 150 Blizzard Destroyer (Heaviest one the shop had) & decide to try it out while playing a round with my friends. It was the biggest piece of crap I've ever throw. No matter how much hyzer I put on it it will always flip up, turnover then turn into a roller. I will never buy a Blizzard/Opto Air disc ever again & don't see any use for the Blizzard Destroyer I have now accept maybe to give it to my girl, she does better with lighter discs & will far way better with it than I have.

Wrong attitude, just don't buy a low PLH Blizzard/Opto Air disc. =)

For example Varsi bought a VIPAir Giant recently, which is just a hint more understable than his regular TP Giant, but when testing it out I still got my best distances with a shallow anhyzer and a low'ish line. Those throws were a bit limited due to the terrain at that point, but they felt and looked like they would have been my longest throws this summer, and this summer included several throws in the 450' range, with one breaking 475'. I need to get me some of those, and I'm planning to take his disc with me the next time we visit Powergrip, to find discs with the same PLH. =)

EDIT: Just to add, the VIPAir Giant was indeed thrown on a long distance golf line, the same line I used for the 450-475' shots, so not an all over the place max D line. It felt just as consistent to throw as my own max D drivers of choice, but was a lot easier to get distance out of, and flew longer even with less power.

Parks wrote:If the posts on this forum are any indication, the PD is like a Teebird with sunshine coming out of its butthole so hard that it flies faster.

PMantle wrote:You'll learn that the numbers are basically guidelines, especially when you move from one plastic to another. They give you a decent starting point, but experience is the only thing that's going to give you a true feel for how to buy. Even with one mold, there can be pretty big differences in the same plastics. I saw some Q-Astras this year that had to be 0/4 based on the PLH and amount of wing under the disc.

Numbers are pretty much just guidelines. The plastic type, PLH, weight & dome have a lot more to do with it than the numbers companies give the disc. As far as your Blizzard discs go, I bought a Blizzard dis a few days ago & it sucks . I already have my bag setup how I want it & have backups at my house so I decide to use some money I won from a league I'm in to tryout something weird/new. So I bought a 150 Blizzard Destroyer (Heaviest one the shop had) & decide to try it out while playing a round with my friends. It was the biggest piece of crap I've ever throw. No matter how much hyzer I put on it it will always flip up, turnover then turn into a roller. I will never buy a Blizzard/Opto Air disc ever again & don't see any use for the Blizzard Destroyer I have now accept maybe to give it to my girl, she does better with lighter discs & will far way better with it than I have.

DiscinFiend wrote:So I bought a 150 Blizzard Destroyer (Heaviest one the shop had) & decide to try it out while playing a round with my friends. It was the biggest piece of crap I've ever throw. No matter how much hyzer I put on it it will always flip up, turnover then turn into a roller. I will never buy a Blizzard/Opto Air disc ever again & don't see any use for the Blizzard Destroyer I have now accept maybe to give it to my girl, she does better with lighter discs & will far way better with it than I have.

Wrong attitude, just don't buy a low PLH Blizzard/Opto Air disc. =)

For example Varsi bought a VIPAir Giant recently, which is just a hint more understable than his regular TP Giant, but when testing it out I still got my best distances with a shallow anhyzer and a low'ish line. Those throws were a bit limited due to the terrain at that point, but they felt and looked like they would have been my longest throws this summer, and this summer included several throws in the 450' range, with one breaking 475'. I need to get me some of those, and I'm planning to take his disc with me the next time we visit Powergrip, to find discs with the same PLH. =)

EDIT: Just to add, the VIPAir Giant was indeed thrown on a long distance golf line, the same line I used for the 450-475' shots, so not an all over the place max D line. It felt just as consistent to throw as my own max D drivers of choice, but was a lot easier to get distance out of, and flew longer even with less power.

So far the Blizzards I've seen have been all over the place while Opto Air discs tend to be more consistent. Of course I've seen plenty more Blizzards since Innova is what most of the people use in Finland.Also it seems Innova has been getting a bit more consistent lately. At least the Blizzard C-Line FD's seem to be molding well.