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I read most of your post and am no quite sure what you mean by too much respect.
If anything, what you talk about is Sony being over confident and not showing enough respect to the competition. In a way it's understandable, they have dominated 3 out of the 4 console gens they have been a part of, and even in the one gen where they struggled they managed to catch up towards the end. But I hope it doesn't hurt them in the end.

In regards to studio acquisitions I agree that they have been lacking. They have a strong lineup already but I don't think they can rest easy just with that since MS really seems to be making a serious push to expand their studios. The Order 1886 was a shame but there's no one to blame but Ready at Dawn, with other projects on the horizon and other studios to work with I can't blame Sony for not spending tens of millions just to find out if maybe RAD actually wanted to make a game instead of a movie the second time around. I'm personally glad they didn't buy Quantic Dream since I find their games pretty bad, I'm also glad they are talking about going third party so maybe that opens up some finances at Sony to collaborate with a different studio.
I do agree that they should start considering investing in a new studio or two. Personally I'd like them to make more games in Japan or at least try and expand the style of games their studios work on. They have top tier studios when it comes to third person action adventure games and I hope they continue making those. But maybe it's time to look into a studio that could make a first person shooter, or a multiplayer focused game, or a horror one, or a JRPG, etc.

In terms of tradeshows, honestly, I don't worry too much. The recent ones have just been slow because there's obviously a next gen coming soon so we are in that awkward phase where they don't want to talk about next gen consoles and games yet, so they focus on whats left for this gen which is limited (though with Days Gone, Death Stranding, Ghosts of Tsushima and TLOU2 it's a pretty good final batch for the Ps4, even if some of them end up being cross gen).

Anyway, don't know if I'd worry so much. Sony has been doing a decent job this gen and it's hard to say much more until we see what both MS and Sony have on offer for next gen. If anything I think you hear more about MS because the ball is currently in their court to prove stuff. Ps4 has been selling a lot better so MS are the ones that need to put in the extra work to show why people should get an Xb1, Ps4 has consistently been releasing some amazing and critically acclaimed exclusives so it's up to MS to show that they are also serious about expanding their studios and releasing more and better exclusives, etc

The numbers I pulled are all referenced on wikipedia here . Following back the citations for the source figures they appear to be direct PR from the respective platform holders.

A cursory search shows numerous reports of PS3 outpacing 360 by around 2013 ( this for example), but there's not much attribution to follow in order to ensure VGChartz numbers weren't being used.

The bottom line being that the two platforms ended up very closely matched, with the Wii some distance in-front despite fading much sooner. Based on its wider geographical popularity and that it was on the market for less time it seems probable to me that PS3 sold more strongly post generational transition and as such I'd expect it to be slightly ahead in the end.

There's certainly very little evidence to support the opposite conclusion, especially given that I don't believe MS have ever claimed victory and have been very cagey in recent years about releasing figures showing their market performance that can be used directly as a comparison.

Indeed. Microsoft has really been looking at the future of console gaming in general, while Sony has been clinging to their idea of traditional consoles. I'll probably get a PS5 anyway, but I'm not excited to see what they do with it because I know they'll probably play it safe and not innovate much or take any risks. I'm super excited to see where MS takes Xbox next gen.

Member

OP I tried reading the entirety, but I'm not seeing where you are going. Regarding the thread title, I have to disagree with the premise. Sony dominated this cycle with a very formidable competitor launching within a couple weeks of PS4. They have never been in a position of weakness at all. Could they have competed differently and done a little better? Maybe, don't know either way but certainly wouldn't be comfortable saying they made a big mistake anywhere looking at the numbers of units sold and profits made.

I do think a question along the lines of whether Sony is showing too little respect to its consumers is debatable. I don't think they have, but with crossplay being locked out almost entirely, the relatively weak PS+, overpriced PS Now, and other minor gripes I am sure I could think back to if I tried, I could understand the opposite argument. From my vantage point, the real answer will come when they disclose if PS5 will or will not have backwards compatibility for our digital PS4 libraries. If not, I would say they have shown their consumers a lack of respect without hesitation, and would almost certainly switch brands to reduce the chances of that ever happening in the generation that will follow.

Sony does have cloud service and obviously has servers for gaming purposes. MS Azure is just for any kind of service, but Amazon Cloud shits on it.
Sony dropped the Vaio long ago because it is a losing market, and the Surface is losing. Surface sales are not good.

Meh about Microsoft's asymmetric controller. It's always terrible to me. Good for them about the disability controller, but as far as hardware goes, who cares. It's all about the games, which Microsoft lacks.

Sony's network is on the same level as MS in terms gaming while handling double the player base, and since Sony is handling more players than Microsoft, you could say it's doing a better job.
More and more PC players are preferring the DS4 over the XBox controller, so much so that Steam (via Big Picture Mode) and various developers (AssCreed, Ni no Kuni 2) have added native support with overlays. Your claim of people buying adapters to use Xbox controllers has no ground or data backing up your "fact".

You are second only to "Last Word" in nonsensical fanboy bullshit here. At least he hides his shame in "wall of text" posts. Keep calm and Pony on man...

On topic, I am not sure what Sony needs to do at all and I think it's current, more calm waters, are because they are crushing it in sales, killing it in critically acclaimed games and getting things in order for the next gen. They don't even really have to acknowledge the competition publicly except in rare cases like "crossplay"where the community was crying foul. The patents found for backwards compatibility are interesting too as Sony and some of it's fans have trashed that as a non-feature on the Xbox for years. We'll see how that tune changes coming into the next gen.

Member

Its really bizarre to me how people are getting so excited over the prospect of streaming on Xbox and acting like MS have somehow invented some sort of radical new strategy when PSNow has been around for four years without much fanfare. Its not like Sony don't have a successful platform to piggyback it off either when PS4 has literally outsold Xbox 2:1 this gen.

MS surely talk a good game but they've failed to deliver as often as they've succeeded, I mean how many years is it now since they teased Crackdown 3's "power of the cloud" destruction system and not only has the game not been launched, they haven't even trailered the tech in ages. Same deal with their augmented reality HoloLens system, shows great at E3 then a year later it comes out that the consumer version is $3000 and not a word is heard about it again in 2 years.

Looking past the hype MS have actually achieved remarkably little. One X is a nice piece of kit but all it appears to have achieved is tp make the One S look underpowered and redundant, it certainly hasn't increased their marketshare. Sure their revenue has increased but unit sales, which are kinda important given that the bulk of income is coming from software licensing haven't. Same deal with backwards compatibility, again its a great positive for users but its had very little appreciable impact on sales, and objectively can never be a growth element going forwards as that old software depreciates with age. If its not driving momentum now, why would it be doing more in say 5 years hence? Its not like its evolving, its a static body of product.

I think Sony's relatively restrained PR has been the smart play here. MS are literally throwing the kitchen sink at getting their profile up and yet still by all competitive metrics aren't gaining ground.

The reality of course is that there's absolutely nothing stopping Sony from adopting any or all of MS strategies themselves in the future. If they want to make a big deal about BC, they can do once they have tech powerful enough to easily emulate the CELL, and should they wish to dig deep back into the PS2/PS1/Vita/PSP back-catalogue they have vastly more material to work with than MS do. PSNow now folds Gamepass-like functionality into its offering, and already offers a proven streaming service for games. PS4 Pro was the first real mid-gen upgrade so even beat One X to the punch on that score, synergizing really well with PSVR which again is another forwards looking offering that is ripe for incremental upgrading as the tech matures.

Sony are in a ridiculously strong position, and while yes it is absolutely possible that they could fuck it all up by making unwise choices at the generational transition, I just don't see it. Partly because we already know that the next generation is going to be an evolution rather than a revolution thanks to continuity in tech partner, but mainly because every decision they've made this gen indicates that they understand the importance of the two most critical factors in determining mass-market success: Price point and software line-up. The things that crippled the PS3 despite its multimedia capabilities and its complete backwards compatibility.

Banned

That used to be the case, but he is correct. The "technological ground" he is referring to is likely the fact that MS has a cloud and server infrastructure that Sony doesn't. MS also currently has its Surface line of pc's... Does Sony still have a pc division since Vaio?

To add on top of all of that, the current consoles also have a gap as far as quality goes. MS's elite controller, and the one for people with disabilities is far and away better than anything Sony has on the market. Current XB1's have a UHD player, and adequate cooling solutions. The PS4 and Pro don't have an UHD player, and the fans are working overtime far too often.

As far as recent years go, yes I agree with you. I was talking about the past history of Microsoft as a console company, and there is absolutely no denying anything stated in my previous post, unless we're not talking facts but fanboy revisionism.

Sorry but aside the fat Xbox One, Microsoft did an excellent job. The OG Xbox was an excellent console, the 360 was an amazing machine and Xbox One X is also amazing and Xbox One S is fine. Xbox One fat was their only real mistake.

Member

I agree with everything else but you're actually very wrong on that point: Microsoft started as a software company that was never specialised or any good at hardware until very recently while Sony has half a century of technological and especially multimedia hardware experience.

Sony understood from the very first Playstation how to make and build console, while it took Microsoft three generations after (so after 5th generation, the Xbox then Xbox 360) to release a decent hardware and platform.

And still there's the fact that MS video game culture and platform management is not quite at the highs of Sony or Nintendo, although they're almost there (adding Backward Compatibility was a big applause from me).

I expressed myself poorly there. If/when consoles die, people are still going to need Microsoft products to do some of their gaming. I'm still having Windows, the OS is not going away. So it's not unlikely that MS manages to provide a solid service that takes advantage of their presence in the market. Like an actually good Windows Store. Sony doesn't have that option. Their presence in the market is 100% due to the device itself.

What they could do is some sort of streaming service of exclusives, but then again, their IPs are probably not strong enough to sustain that logically without them backing up humongous amounts of money into each game.

Member

Its really bizarre to me how people are getting so excited over the prospect of streaming on Xbox and acting like MS have somehow invented some sort of radical new strategy when PSNow has been around for four years without much fanfare. Its not like Sony don't have a successful platform to piggyback it off either when PS4 has literally outsold Xbox 2:1 this gen.

MS surely talk a good game but they've failed to deliver as often as they've succeeded, I mean how many years is it now since they teased Crackdown 3's "power of the cloud" destruction system and not only has the game not been launched, they haven't even trailered the tech in ages. Same deal with their augmented reality HoloLens system, shows great at E3 then a year later it comes out that the consumer version is $3000 and not a word is heard about it again in 2 years.

Looking past the hype MS have actually achieved remarkably little. One X is a nice piece of kit but all it appears to have achieved is tp make the One S look underpowered and redundant, it certainly hasn't increased their marketshare. Sure their revenue has increased but unit sales, which are kinda important given that the bulk of income is coming from software licensing haven't. Same deal with backwards compatibility, again its a great positive for users but its had very little appreciable impact on sales, and objectively can never be a growth element going forwards as that old software depreciates with age. If its not driving momentum now, why would it be doing more in say 5 years hence? Its not like its evolving, its a static body of product.

I think Sony's relatively restrained PR has been the smart play here. MS are literally throwing the kitchen sink at getting their profile up and yet still by all competitive metrics aren't gaining ground.

The reality of course is that there's absolutely nothing stopping Sony from adopting any or all of MS strategies themselves in the future. If they want to make a big deal about BC, they can do once they have tech powerful enough to easily emulate the CELL, and should they wish to dig deep back into the PS2/PS1/Vita/PSP back-catalogue they have vastly more material to work with than MS do. PSNow now folds Gamepass-like functionality into its offering, and already offers a proven streaming service for games. PS4 Pro was the first real mid-gen upgrade so even beat One X to the punch on that score, synergizing really well with PSVR which again is another forwards looking offering that is ripe for incremental upgrading as the tech matures.

Sony are in a ridiculously strong position, and while yes it is absolutely possible that they could fuck it all up by making unwise choices at the generational transition, I just don't see it. Partly because we already know that the next generation is going to be an evolution rather than a revolution thanks to continuity in tech partner, but mainly because every decision they've made this gen indicates that they understand the importance of the two most critical factors in determining mass-market success: Price point and software line-up. The things that crippled the PS3 despite its multimedia capabilities and its complete backwards compatibility.

I think people are excited about the possibility of game streaming from MS side. Yes Sony has had streaming for a few years now, but it's had issues, and has been flat out poor at times. People want to see someone else's crack at it.

The rest of your post is mostly fallacies and Sony praising. Xbox YoY growth is pretty impressive. Not sure why you would blatantly lie about that. It ruins any credibility you might have.

Member

I think people are excited about the possibility of game streaming from MS side. Yes Sony has had streaming for a few years now, but it's had issues, and has been flat out poor at times. People want to see someone else's crack at it.

The rest of your post is mostly fallacies and Sony praising. Xbox YoY growth is pretty impressive. Not sure why you would blatantly lie about that. It ruins any credibility you might have.

Nothing fallacious in my post, its either hard fact or logical conjecture based on those facts.

Xbox YoY growth is based on revenue as I stated, which is what you'd expect from selling a new SKU at double the price in the same unit volume. As I've noted previously the One X is outselling the S model in units, Mat Piscatella in his video breakdown for August NPD states it to be the case for that month explicitly. If both were on a major upswing they'd be outselling PS4/Pro by units and revenue. but neither is the case in the US, and its inevitable that their performance is going to be worse overseas because the NA market historically has been far and away their strongest.

Increasing profit is not the same as increasing marketshare in a commodity business. Its good for shareholders but of minimal use to consumers. It does not indicate improvement in brand strength and market penetration, things that actually reflect the competitive balance.

The reality is that MS have done a great job of rehabilitating their image to core gamers since the disastrous start of the gen, but the hard fact remains that they are still under 50million units sold nearing the end of the generation. And that matters immensely if the next generation is characterized by continuity, something that I'd say is a virtual certainty at this point in time.

Sure. Like I'm the only person on Earth praising OG Xbox or the 360… And the past history, what history is that exactly ? MS launched 3 consoles. OG Xbox, Xbox 360 and Xbox One. So implying that OG Xbox was somehow a poorly conceived machine or that Xbox 360 wasn't a great achievement on MS end is revisionism and whatever mistakes they made with XB1 are now in the past with the X. Furthermore, their philosophy is totally different than Sony's. I'm not saying it's better or worse, it's just different and Sony is more successful. So ? At the end of the day I'm supposed to care about who's first ? It's like a dick contest or something ? Or maybe because Celine Dion is selling more records than Lucky Soul, I'm supposed to buy them also ? Or maybe you mean that every console that has sold less than PlayStation is a piece of trash. Dreamcast included ?

Milk Connoisseur

As far as the Xbox itself goes... MS has responded to all issues this gen. It takes time, but theyve done it.
•PS4 was more powerful.
°MS responded.
•PS4 had the advanced DS4.
°MS responded.
•PS4 allowed used games.
°MS responded, and included bc.
•PS4 has streaming with PSNow.
*It looks as though MS is responding.•PS4 has superior first party.
*It looks as though MS is responding.

Member

Nothing fallacious in my post, its either hard fact or logical conjecture based on those facts.

Xbox YoY growth is based on revenue as I stated, which is what you'd expect from selling a new SKU at double the price in the same unit volume. As I've noted previously the One X is outselling the S model in units, Mat Piscatella in his video breakdown for August NPD states it to be the case for that month explicitly. If both were on a major upswing they'd be outselling PS4/Pro by units and revenue. but neither is the case in the US, and its inevitable that their performance is going to be worse overseas because the NA market historically has been far and away their strongest.

Increasing profit is not the same as increasing marketshare in a commodity business. Its good for shareholders but of minimal use to consumers. It does not indicate improvement in brand strength and market penetration, things that actually reflect the competitive balance.

The reality is that MS have done a great job of rehabilitating their image to core gamers since the disastrous start of the gen, but the hard fact remains that they are still under 50million units sold nearing the end of the generation. And that matters immensely if the next generation is characterized by continuity, something that I'd say is a virtual certainty at this point in time.

The XB1X was the best selling sku for August. If you want to base your point on 'facts', then I suggest that you go have a look at how many X sku's were available in August vs S sku's.

Your other points are correct though. Xbox as a whole isn't gaining marketshare. Not from what we can tell anyway. Next gen isn't guaranteed for Sony though either as you suggest. Continuity may certainly be a factor, but if crossplay, and even more importantly cross progression becomes a thing, then it becomes much less of one.

We've seen gen after gen after gen where the lead sales platform had believed they were destined to repeat... Only to be outsold by a competitor. It happens every gen almost. If the PS5 outsells both Ninty and MS next gen, it would be an outlier. Not the norm.

Member

No enough respect more like, I'm a Playstation guy but hell I do not blame anyone next gen going Xbox if they launch with full BC and continue with the support they've shown so far.
This gen while Sony has been hitting it out the park with first party titles, MS has been building on that legacy library.
Once the the new console hit everything resets
Sony won't have that stable of AAA games.
MS just needs some good launch titles and BC with a decent price and they will be laughing

Member

The XB1X was the best selling sku for August. If you want to base your point on 'facts', then I suggest that you go have a look at how many X sku's were available in August vs S sku's.

Your other points are correct though. Xbox as a whole isn't gaining marketshare. Not from what we can tell anyway. Next gen isn't guaranteed for Sony though either as you suggest. Continuity may certainly be a factor, but if crossplay, and even more importantly cross progression becomes a thing, then it becomes much less of one.

We've seen gen after gen after gen where the lead sales platform had believed they were destined to repeat... Only to be outsold by a competitor. It happens every gen almost. If the PS5 outsells both Ninty and MS next gen, it would be an outlier. Not the norm.

Not sure what your first point means? Are you suggesting One S was supply constrained during one of the quietest months of the year?

Look, I'm sorry but if you look at it like racing form, one of the "horses" in the console war "race" would be a red-hot favourite; winning the 5th (gen) race by a mile, by an even larger margin in the 6th, scrambling a joint second in the 7th despite a dreadful start and rough early going, then recovering to win the 8th by a mile again! Race number 9 coming up, the smart question to ask is why exactly aren't past results going to repeat themselves?

Member

Not sure what your first point means? Are you suggesting One S was supply constrained during one of the quietest months of the year?

Look, I'm sorry but if you look at it like racing form, one of the "horses" in the console war "race" would be a red-hot favourite; winning the 5th (gen) race by a mile, by an even larger margin in the 6th, scrambling a joint second in the 7th despite a dreadful start and rough early going, then recovering to win the 8th by a mile again! Race number 9 coming up, the smart question to ask is why exactly aren't past results going to repeat themselves?

No, my first point was that the XB1S had like 8-11 sku's available in August to choose from vs 2 for the X. One of the X sku's was August's top seller for Xbox. Overall, the S most certainly sold more units.

As for your second point. I guess your right. History does prove it. Sony's got this console business all wrapped up.

Member

No enough respect more like, I'm a Playstation guy but hell I do not blame anyone next gen going Xbox if they launch with full BC and continue with the support they've shown so far.
This gen while Sony has been hitting it out the park with first party titles, MS has been building on that legacy library.
Once the the new console hit everything resets
Sony won't have that stable of AAA games.
MS just needs some good launch titles and BC with a decent price and they will be laughing

Why do so many people assume the PS5 won't have any BC at all?
It is likely to be BC with PS4 software, that's my personal requirement to have any interest in it. If it doesn't, new games will be on PC only for me from then on.

GAF's Pleasant Genius

The XB1X was the best selling sku for August. If you want to base your point on 'facts', then I suggest that you go have a look at how many X sku's were available in August vs S sku's.

Your other points are correct though. Xbox as a whole isn't gaining marketshare. Not from what we can tell anyway. Next gen isn't guaranteed for Sony though either as you suggest. Continuity may certainly be a factor, but if crossplay, and even more importantly cross progression becomes a thing, then it becomes much less of one.

We've seen gen after gen after gen where the lead sales platform had believed they were destined to repeat... Only to be outsold by a competitor. It happens every gen almost. If the PS5 outsells both Ninty and MS next gen, it would be an outlier. Not the norm.

Banned

I expressed myself poorly there. If/when consoles die, people are still going to need Microsoft products to do some of their gaming. I'm still having Windows, the OS is not going away. So it's not unlikely that MS manages to provide a solid service that takes advantage of their presence in the market. Like an actually good Windows Store. Sony doesn't have that option. Their presence in the market is 100% due to the device itself.

What they could do is some sort of streaming service of exclusives, but then again, their IPs are probably not strong enough to sustain that logically without them backing up humongous amounts of money into each game.

Well it's true and this context is arriving soon, but I somewhat disagree with the premise: when console die, it'll be most likely because game streaming and servers have become a thing.
In order terms it won't be so much a question of hardware indeed, but most importantly platform.

And as you mention, the Windows Store is such an horrible pile of shit (not to mention their crap DRM) that both Steam, Battle.net, Origin and Gog have a LARGE upper-hand on the Windows Store platform. Well the future for both Nintendo, Sony and Microsoft will be in fact a continuation of the console war in the form of a platform war.

It'll be about GPU server proficiencies, platform services/interface and most importantly exclusive/curated catalogues, as it already is somewhat the case today. So it's not a given that Microsoft, besides having the Windows OS system that could easily be in competition with any future streaming-compatible terminal wether it's Chrome or iOS, has any advantage.

To be honest, besides the coherence of regular AAA quality curation, Sony hasn't been doing a good job at maintaining and promoting their whole Playstation backlog of franchises, neither retaining studios with talent (like those they've closed) so if they continuing being stupid while Microsoft has been switching gears with their studios it could indeed happen.

Banned

Sure. Like I'm the only person on Earth praising OG Xbox or the 360… And the past history, what history is that exactly ? MS launched 3 consoles. OG Xbox, Xbox 360 and Xbox One. So implying that OG Xbox was somehow a poorly conceived machine or that Xbox 360 wasn't a great achievement on MS end is revisionism and whatever mistakes they made with XB1 are now in the past with the X. Furthermore, their philosophy is totally different than Sony's. I'm not saying it's better or worse, it's just different and Sony is more successful. So ? At the end of the day I'm supposed to care about who's first ? It's like a dick contest or something ? Or maybe because Celine Dion is selling more records than Lucky Soul, I'm supposed to buy them also ? Or maybe you mean that every console that has sold less than PlayStation is a piece of trash. Dreamcast included ?

Nobody gives a shit about anyone's minor subjective bias, the OG Xbox is universally criticised as being crap, period. The Xbox 360, although I didn't have it and don't like the platform, is universally acclaimed as being as good (if not slightly better) than the PS3, and I objectively can only agree with that, not that I have to but I simply do given facts. That's the difference between objective judgment (which usually translates in the numbers unless we're talking about art) vs subjective tastes.

As for the Xbox One, they did terrible mistakes not just at launch but also with the handling of their studio exclusives and franchises, wether it's Quantum Break, Halo 5, Sunset Overdrive or Sea of Thieves, the cancelled Scalebound and Phantom Dust, or the disappeared Project Spark. Facts. Now, I consider that with the various interface and service updates, the ultra-bluray reader inclusion and especially the launch of cross-generation backward compatibility, they're doing a WAY better job than Sony. Facts.

It's not a question of taste or personal appreciation, success of a platform is a question of pragmatic and objective decisions, management and governance, and as such there is no mystery in either the success of the PS4, the boom of the Switch and the stagnation of the XB1...which can change at any given moment if Microsoft continues taking better decisions and better managing their assets while Sony continues not doing much or even stupid decisions they've taken with the last PS4 fragmentations...

Member

No, my first point was that the XB1S had like 8-11 sku's available in August to choose from vs 2 for the X. One of the X sku's was August's top seller for Xbox. Overall, the S most certainly sold more units.

As for your second point. I guess your right. History does prove it. Sony's got this console business all wrapped up.

Regarding your first point, maybe I misunderstood Piscatella saying that One X was the highest-selling Xbox SKU in August as not representing the overall sales split, I ought to look back into it but the truth is at this point in the platform life-cycle it shouldn't be close.

I conceded in my first post that nothing is a certainty and its always in Sony's power to screw up catastrophically, my point was simply that you can't argue that there's a precedent here. Which is contrary to your assertion that Sony continuing to outsell both Nintendo and MS next gen would be an outlier, the fact is that since all 3 major platform holders have been contesting the market, the 7th gen was the outlier.

Member

Nobody gives a shit about anyone's minor subjective bias, the OG Xbox is universally criticised as being crap, period. The Xbox 360, although I didn't have it and don't like the platform, is universally acclaimed as being as good (if not slightly better) than the PS3, and I objectively can only agree with that, not that I have to but I simply do given facts. That's the difference between objective judgment (which usually translates in the numbers unless we're talking about art) vs subjective tastes.

OG Xbox is universally criticised by who exactly ? There's numerous articles on numerous gaming websites about the many things the console introduced into console gaming like western RPGs plus, I Don't know, Xbox Live ? And 360 slightly better than PS3 ? No, it's not a slightly better console, 360 is a way better designed console and it evolved quite a bit during the course of its life. I can totally understand that you Don't like the Xbox brand, no problem about that, it's personal taste. But OG Xbox is crap ? And universally criticised on top of that ? I never heard such things outside console wars but it doesn't seems to be the case here. So, how come ? How a console way more powerful than the leader (PS2), which introduced Xbox Live, Western PC gaming culture to console, how come it's crap ? It's not possible. On Xbox Live alone it's not possible. I'm not saying it was perfect, but crap ? No way.

Member

Well they acquired a load of studios recently and there is rumours Obsidian is joining them. Remains to be seen if the studios can deliver but it's obvious MS is making moves in an attempt to improve their first party offering.

Banned

OG Xbox is universally criticised by who exactly ? There's numerous articles on numerous gaming websites about the many things the console introduced into console gaming like western RPGs plus, I Don't know, Xbox Live ? And 360 slightly better than PS3 ? No, it's not a slightly better console, 360 is a way better designed console and it evolved quite a bit during the course of its life. I can totally understand that you Don't like the Xbox brand, no problem about that, it's personal taste. But OG Xbox is crap ? And universally criticised on top of that ? I never heard such things outside console wars but it doesn't seems to be the case here. So, how come ? How a console way more powerful than the leader (PS2), which introduced Xbox Live, Western PC gaming culture to console, how come it's crap ? It's not possible. On Xbox Live alone it's not possible. I'm not saying it was perfect, but crap ? No way.

All this tells me is that you didn't know how to say "mommy" and "daddy" yet when the console came out. There's not even a debate about it, if you were around back then. The Xbox was one of the most horribly designed console, it was huge, badly architected, had a crap system with many shortcomings and system, and almost no curation but sure, it was a bit more powerful. Xbox Live was not the first console online system and the fact that it introduced (even though it didn't) WRPG on console is irrelevant in the grand schemes.

As for the Xbox 360, I agree it was a better than the PS3, better design and bit better graphically tuned.

Member

All this tells me is that you didn't know how to say "mommy" and "daddy" yet when the console came out. There's not even a debate about it, if you were around back then. The Xbox was one of the most horribly designed console, it was huge, badly architected, had a crap system with many shortcomings and system, and almost no curation but sure, it was a bit more powerful. Xbox Live was not the first console online system and the fact that it introduced (even though it didn't) WRPG on console is irrelevant in the grand schemes.

As for the Xbox 360, I agree it was a better than the PS3, better design and bit better graphically tuned.

Member

I wonder if in retrospect, 2018 E3 won't be remembered as the turning point. Sony should have never allowed MS to acquire 4 good studios in one fell swoop like that. At the very least Sony should have acquired Ninja Theory, if just to keep them out of Microsoft's clutches. 2018 E3 might be remembered as the moment that Sony could have 'curb stomped' Microsoft and didn't. Then fast forward to 2025 and MS is battling with Google & Amazon for gaming supremacy and Sony is an also ran.

Member

There is next to no competition for Sony right now, compared to when they were the new kids on the block in 1994....the fight is between them and Microsoft...with Nintendo trying to stay "relevant" on the side-lines...its all too easy for Sony ...

Member

Regarding your first point, maybe I misunderstood Piscatella saying that One X was the highest-selling Xbox SKU in August as not representing the overall sales split, I ought to look back into it but the truth is at this point in the platform life-cycle it shouldn't be close.

I conceded in my first post that nothing is a certainty and its always in Sony's power to screw up catastrophically, my point was simply that you can't argue that there's a precedent here. Which is contrary to your assertion that Sony continuing to outsell both Nintendo and MS next gen would be an outlier, the fact is that since all 3 major platform holders have been contesting the market, the 7th gen was the outlier.

I see your point, and I concede that Sony have generally had stellar sales.

I'd also like to point out that we are currently in 8th gen. Sony has been the sales leader of 3 of those. Yeah, Sony has been very dominant since joining, but dominance doesn't usually last forever. At one point, Atari dominated the market for a time, then Nintendo dominated, then Playstation. To think that nobody else will show up and dominate the market at some point is a bit naive.

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I see your point, and I concede that Sony have generally had stellar sales.

I'd also like to point out that we are currently in 8th gen. Sony has been the sales leader of 3 of those. Yeah, Sony has been very dominant since joining, but dominance doesn't usually last forever. At one point, Atari dominated the market for a time, then Nintendo dominated, then Playstation. To think that nobody else will show up and dominate the market at some point is a bit naive.

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You see, Sony knows they can do that because the PS360 generation completely destroyed the mystique of Killer Applications, there is absolutely not a single game on earth (even Half Life 3) which would change the tide. It did help them that Microsoft's own first party juggernauts started suffering from franchise fatigue. It's no longer a war with games, it's a war of marketing. I would say we no longer need three consoles: Nintendo takes spot one, your guess as to which one the other should be. Having two Playstations (Sony and Microsoft) has become redundant.