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As an exception I will offer some links here for YOU because in the early days of this thread - when mikeh & Huck made their respective entrance - both proved that they don't have much "luck" with "search machines".

Taking into account now that they BOTH are major contributors (not only) to THIS site/community - it seems so very reasonable (to ME at least) that there COULD be some MORE skeletons with similar traits in the respective closets (that YOU all didn't recognize because THEY themselves didn't and YOU just went along with the flock - eyes wide shut) that I think it's better to be save (now) than sorry (later - AGAIN).

Additionally mikeh - as a TRUE Tarot devotee - seemed to spent a lot of money and time on his endeavors for the just cause of finding the truth between the pages of olden timey books that MAY not always be the BEST choice...

Probably I should explain this more extensively because most of YOU seem to think that the OLDEST source should always be the BEST one.

Perhaps YOU have heard of Athanasius Kircher - a true RENAISSANCE MAN born into the Baroque era and up there with The FEW - like Pythagoras & Leonardo & Albert.

He was very interested in foreign and ancient cultures and got appointed papal librarian among other professions. He took his best shot at the Egyptian hieroglyphs - and failed for all it was worth.
Nevertheless he was in his lifetime THE most respected AUTHORITY on that matter and many turned to HIM for KNOWLEDGE about the Egyptian secrets.

This all changed only because/after the ROSETTA STONE was discovered in 1799.
The KEY to the Egyptian mind.

It was not HIS fault though. He worked on all that was available to him VERY thoroughly and explained every detail that garnered his attention meticulously. But The KEY wasn't found then and no one expected that there could be 1 waiting in the sand.

So TODAY it wouldn't be very wise to take Athanasius's opinions on the meaning of hieroglyphs as gospel.

On the other hand HE is the only scribe YOU should turn to when YOU want to learn something about The TREE & The GARDEN.

In his "Oedipus Aegyptiacus" he set out for a UNIFIED FIELD THEORY OF RELIGION.
Nothing more & nothing less. HE is the ONLY source for "Da'at" - but he didn't talk or write about it.
He discovered and DOCUMENTED The KNOWLEDGE in his representation of The TREE where it looks a bit like "platform 9¾" at the King's Cross Railway Station in London.

BUT "Da'at" got lost in TRANSLATION.

The desperate "rabbis" with their bound wings just made up "Da'at" where they found space within the branches and (g/c)rafted some convenient new ones so that they could nestle the faithful until expiration.
This wasn't entirely their fault either because the QBLH is not REALLY THEIR thing.
It was RECEIVED - as a PRESENT!

Can YOU guess WHO gave The PRESENT to them?

Now back to The TAROT.
This KEY (The "ROSETTA STONE" of TAROT - so to say... ) is made on the defining level from the 16 DIVINE EXPRESSIONS - represented in the GEOMANTIC CHARACTERS and IF YOU want to get a clue what these are YOU should turn to IDRIS...

A quote from en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geomancy:

"After praying to God that He give Idris easily a means to earn his living, Idris rested one day, bored and without work, and began to draw figures idly in the sand. As he did so, a stranger appeared before him and questioned what he was doing. Idris replied that he was simply entertaining himself, but the stranger replied that he was doing a very serious act. Idris became incredulous and tried to deny this, but the stranger explained the significance of the meaning of the figure Idris drew. He then commanded Idris to draw another figure, and upon doing so the stranger explained the meaning and significance of that figure. The pair continued this until Idris had discovered and understood the sixteen figures. The stranger then taught Idris how to form the figures in a regular manner and what the results meant, teaching him how to know things that could not be known with just the physical senses. After testing Idris' newfound knowledge and skill of geomancy, and revealing himself to be the angel Jibril in the process, the stranger disappeared. Idris, thankful to God and His messenger that he learned this art, never revealed the art to anyone. Before he was risen to God, he wrote a book describing the art as Jibril had taught him, and from his successors."

...and to Ross G. R. Caldwell because he made 3 valuable JPGs available on the net:

Unfortunately there are mistakes in the ORIGINAL DOCUMENTS - so YOU should PROOFREAD them!

...and to Heinrich Cornelius Agrippa von Nettesheim when YOU want to explore how widely spread in European Alchemy their wisdom and influence was once. He catalogued for example 7 variants for "FORTUNA MAJOR" alone in alchemical tomes. For other signs there are much more variants...

And Filippo Maria Visconti LOVED ALCHEMY - like many other rulers too.
Think about John Dee who was the ADVISOR in many trades to "The Virgin Queen" of England and Ireland.

So: because THIS is the GOLDEN AGE of RESEARCH we live in right now (and in fact this IS just the BEGINNING... ) I intend to save him (and YOU of course... ) some money AND time that could be spent so much better with a nice bottle of Absinthe & 2 glasses & the right kind of "spooning" with sugar & fire & cool clear water & a REAL GREEN FAIRY in YOUR lap (...& to avoid the FEAR that SOMETHING WILL go WRONG AGAIN... ...puhhh... ...of course... ).

Here are the links for...

1. The "LL" > "Y" problem:

"LL - French Pronunciation of the Double L"
"Is LL pronounced like an L or like a Y in French?"

Usually (as YOU should have noticed) I don't do "links" anymore here in this thread because I use "searchable" words and expressions that YOU only have to "type" in YOUR "search window" if YOU don't know what to do with them.

That way YOU can do a little bit of work YOURSELF - AND may even come up with some original "chains of thought" that YOU could DISCUSS with other RESEARCHERS.

That would be GREAT. Not the DISCUSSION part - but the INDEPENDENT thought part... !

Since this is a present for The May Queen and in some countries The Ascension of "The Good Shepherd" - who is romantically (and possibly without HIS consent) linked with the promise of making his disciples "FISHERs OF MEN" - is celebrated very soon... ...have you ever thought about what that really means?

For the FISH?

And for the SHEEP?

To be saved from harm and getting nurtured and fed... ...just to be SAVED for LATER...
...when it's too late?

Are shepherds and fishermen really in the business of doing good for/to the vertebrates?

Would - if they could - they tell their young that those are the truly benign forces in a hostile world who should be trusted anytime - no matter what?

But maybe this "picture" is just "off" by accident?
Then again it can't be - it's The SCRIPTURE - right?

It's OT reference bears a VERY political meaning - maybe this NT quote does too?

In case you were wondering why Jean did portrait the XXI (and the XVII of course - only in expectancy here... ...look at her navel!) in the image of a She-Hulk:

This is founded on the 2nd version of the "Python Legends" were Python appears as a male dragon/serpent.
The Negrolis worked on that too - in their burgonets for the mortal KINGS of this world - totally void of any spiritual meaning and nothing beyond the obvious metaphor.

( >>> If you should ever experience an urge to study The Order Of The Golden Fleece whose members were BY LAW above the law and "fathered" in principle the structures of todays oligarchies you may begin to understand WHY the wisdom was purposefully withheld and shrouded - and that those members of said order took the ETHOS of STEALING to a whole new level - what did blaze the trail for the "rogue" masons on the last pages of the "Copiale" and REVOLUTIONs in the long run...

...and while you're at it you should also have a look at the defining art piece for Christian culture in Gent.
Especially "The Adoration Of The Mystic Lamb":

"Lamb" is such an INNOCENT word - just like "enhanced interrogation" or "nuclear energy" - that most faithful believers don't think about The CHRIST as being MALE himself what makes The LAMB in reality a RAM with ALL the divine connotations that there could possibly be from the olden days on.

The SACRIFICE of the RAM is a reoccurring theme not only since ABRA(HA)M got the call to slaughter his SON and The CHRIST is THE perfect AMALGAM of BOTH PROTAGONISTS - The SON & The RAM in ONE.

Use your imagination to picture this panel of the altar as a snapshot of the "heads of contemporary society" (only the CHRISTIANS of course) so that some of The ORDER's ilk could be among them in waiting - for the LEFTOVERS after the RITE.

The (golden) FLEECE Of The RAM.
A marker of true KINGSHIP for the RIGHTFUL HEIR (in antiquity).

And if you don't have it... ...you just have to steal it!

This didn't sit well with the concerned clergy: that the knightly prime of Christendom and chivalry would take a pagan motto to define their "holy" purpose - but this criticism was countered by The ORDER with a cute and totally bogus cover story by...

"... the bishop of Châlons, chancellor of the Order, [who] rescued the fleece's reputation by identifying it instead with the fleece of Gideon that received the dew of Heaven." (Wikipedia)

...most effectively. When you learn about the strenuous efforts they made to KEEP that NAME - there should be SOMETHING to it that YOU didn't include in YOUR calculations (if YOU had any... ) so far what made such stress worthwhile.

Oh... ...and make sure to take a chance on stargazing in the waters of the FOUNTAIN!
For Christ's sake - I almost forgot that... ...it's QUITE an experience! <<< )

In alchemy these 2 different gender versions of the "Python Legends" (partly) gave rise to the idea of the HERMAPHRODITE or REBIS - which is present in the aTdM of Paul Marteau for Grimaud 1930 in disguise.
( > TRUE TAROT PDF: page 76)

Jean was perfectly well capable of drawing a nice girly "pinup" with all the necessary qualities (what you could tell by the facial features and bodily proportions he lends to the VI or the III for example - if YOU could). But THAT would have been COUNTERPRODUCTIVE for HIS PURPOSE.

He devoted ALL of his genius to the CAUSE and withstood the challenge of "showing off" on every occasion that presented a temptation to him - very UNLIKE the later "authors" of Fantasy-Cards.

These 2 versions of the "Python Legends" don't capture the TRUTH of the REAL event in ANY way - and they were not MEANT to do so. They were meant to disguise the TRUTH. BOTH of them.

This EVENT lies buried much deeper in the sands of time and it is the explanation WHY Abu Mūsā Jābir ibn Hayyān al-Sufi was so busy with "TAKWIN" - the artificial creation of life.

Today AI is on the schedule AGAIN.

And it should work out this time - in a comparatively VERY short span of years.

That must be pretty boring for someone who has been fed only soap operas for education all his life...

Especially for the "casual reader" who just has a "click" for "kicks"

But if you (the casual readers) have the stamina to read through all those (until now only) 7 pages of this thread (that has as the prime directive - just there in the title: " Tarotée - The Back-Door To The Secret" - to demonstrate HOW the LINES that where "distilled" from the HISTORICAL CARDS are PRODUCED and PUT to USE in the REAL GAME of TAROT (that is ABOUT The SECRET) you may find it quite rewarding... ...in the end.

And rest assured: MORE LINES will follow!

And while you wade through all that sometimes quite unentertaining stuff burdened with your weary brains you should sometimes go on a side path and sit for a while in the shadow for recreation and dare to click the "essentials" right there in the 1st post with links and all.

Among them is the one that Huck claimed "not given" (p)ages later just before I wrote him off.

Just now - I must say that - I'm a bit disappointed with the statistics.
Not angry. Just disappointed...

Not with the clicks here - here you do just OK - but the "essentials" worry me a bit.

How can you expect to understand something that you don't know anything about when you don't engage in the mandatory groundwork?
That was a rhetorical question - so don't bother please - I know that you do that all the time...

Please understand that I don't get ANYTHING out of this. I would just consider it a GESTURE.

See: this thread is a little bit like working with handicapped friends - say deaf-mute for example or mute only - I still have to figure that out - that's why I came up with this fantastic idea for a "sign language" that could tell me something about that.

It's not PERFECT though - but what IS? You could still cheat - but in fact I really don't care IF you read it really because I KNOW it already. I just would hate it that you miss out on the chance to amass some real knowledge that you could use possibly later for faster and better adaption.

The DEAL:

After the advised above links received those 100 additional clicks I will tell you the REAL NAME of Jean's LEFOV & how it came to be and what it MEANS & and about MADAGASCAR & LEMPERANCE.

( >>> Here is a link to a cute post from the learned jmd of fourhares on Aeclectic from 2002 that shows his opinion on the "apparent mis-spelling" on Jean's XIIII that shows there clearly IS a NEED to KNOW:

...so funny... ...but apart from jmd's scintillations about "a relation to IIII - LEMPEREVR" his revelations hold ONE good idea about "iconographic representations of its [LEMPERANCE's] opposite intemperance" - that he describes as a female drunkard what is a good point - NOT in itself though - but if you got THAT picture in your mind you can understand WHY the concerned young beauty of the PMB cards is described by "C" in the above advised LiBER MUNDi link as "SOBRIETY (summarized from the context AND the most "down-to-earth" translation/synonym for "temperance" & "tempérance" in both: English & French)" for being the PERSONA of PUELLA (The GIRL) in GEOMANTICS. Unfortunately the common Wiki-descriptions are FAR off this time & utter rubbish & VERY misleading (to say the least) so you would have to turn to the sources "C" advises there too - although to my knowledge they have not been translated into English yet! <<< )

Mmmh - how does that sound?

Even those 100 clicks are for your own good you'll see.

Right now there are only about 120 regular readers here in this thread and 2/3 of them from Europe - what is counterproductive to the cause of building "bridge(s) over (the) troubled water(s)" to reach the "Island of Bliss" (on "The WORLD" card of the PMB) until you've recognized what the "Merchant" in red at his table of said PMB does offer (not only to you) as a remedy to brighten The EYES & The SOUL.

Once you've enjoyed that treasure you won't need no bridge and no boat to get over and beyond... ...but it will cost you dearly!

But as I said NO PRESSURE & NO TIME LIMIT.

...on the other hand ( ...the left one I suppose ... ) you've done so well without such knowledge and took "the Fool" for granted all the time that it appears to me that you like it to be taken for one - so maybe you don't need to know?

I feel the need to address an (to me) important issue between "the lines" here so to say after I've read through the whole dreadful thing (the Aeclectic thread above that was initiated by the learned jmd of fourhares about the "apparent mis-spelling" on Jean's XIIII) because - in my opinion only of course - it is a very good example of the "world view" exercised in "Tarot research" as a whole for some time now.

The thread went on for some months and not much changed in the views of the participants. The main event is that they congratulate each other on their educated behavior and edification...
...and add a "bon mot" and a "caprice" or an "aventure" here and there.

When you look at the different "labels" that can be attached to the historical "phases" the world went through you can take such "labels" from different "jars".
The "cultural jar" for example holds "labels" like "Renaissance" or "Baroque" for defined time spans that historians can identify by certain attitudes displayed across the whole spectrum of a society.

But history can also be "labeled" politically.

And when you do that you'll find that the era in which "Tarot research" began to spread (around 1800 - in principle after Antoine Court de Gébelin published “Le Monde primitif, analysé et comparé avec le monde moderne ” in 1781 - the same time in which the word "bateleur" was introduced into the colloquial French) is labeled COLONIALISM.

The world view of the "colonialist" made it possible for him to go everywhere and find only "primitives and savages" - what gave him the ethical and religious right and DUTY to conquer them and "educate" them and "elevate" them (if he was in the mood to do "good") to a "level" just a tick below his own (according to their racial "disadvantages" - what was not THEIR fault BUT "god's will").

The "Indians" of both kinds and the "Moors" of the world got their fair share of "education" and "good will" enough to be ever so grateful to the white man as their master and tutor you may remember.

Nowadays a great deal of the world has adapted to more humane views and the colonialist of that age and time seems to be the real "primitive" in retrospection because he didn't appreciate what the foreign countries and their people had to offer and SO MUCH got LOST in those dark times due to the arrogance and ignorance of the white conqueror that there will be forever a void...

All the fields of social sciences and history and art history and psychology and comparative studies in religion and languages and anthropology adapt and have adapted to these new perspectives and evolved...

But "Tarot research" still stays in the tracks of the 18th and 19th century quite happy and content with itself:
The authors of the classical historical Tarot cards are STILL considered "illiterate" and "primitive" in their art so that THEY need to be CORRECTED and their works be "cleaned up" and "restored" what it so absurd in itself that I'm at a loss of words here.

That's what would be called "ideological colonialism" what implies that only the "world view" of the own acquired culture is accepted as the means to interpret any given phenomenon.

The exact same thing happened when Joseph Smith Jr. got his hands on some fragments of some Egyptian papyri and "interpreted" them to his own ends "with the help of god" for the "Latter Day Saints" into the "Book of Abraham" and after it all came out because NOW Egyptologists can REALLY READ what is written in hieroglyphs there are STILL Mormons today who BELIEVE that he was RIGHT in his clearly false "revelations" regarding the content of the papyri.

You can today with the Internet's help amass more knowledge from the sources of wisdom in a week of research than Arthur Edward Waite or Encausse Gérard Papus for example were able to do in their life time.
AND it would be FAR more accurate IF you do it right.

You have translator machines to help you for all the languages of the world those early pioneers would have KILLED for. But you don't use the knowledge that is waiting at your fingertips because it is seems far more "sophisticated" to be "knowledgeable" in the gospels of "Tarot Saints" like them and to take THEIR word for granted without having a "scale" of your own at hand.

( >>> Aleister Crowley for example would have had the chance to REALLY UNDERSTAND what "AIWASS" (whoever this may have been on what level ever) was trying to tell him about ABRAHADABRA if he had known about the sound shift that happened when the Phoenician "alphabet" evolved into the Latin "alphabet"... and YOU would have the chance too - but when all the "Thelemites" just repeat the nonsense without TRYING to DO what THEY wilt - what is simply disgusting - you can be excused - or not? <<< )

You BELIEVE and ASSUME and DISCUSS and STUDY IN DEPTH (whatever that is supposed to mean when you look at ONE card only like Supletion on the 3rd page states what would be like saying that by "studying" the letter X you aspire to understand Shakespeare) without trying to step INTO the WORLD the classical author lived in and really taking HIM SERIOUSLY without assuming that YOU know better.

And that is EXACTLY what happened when "The ROMANTICS" took over Tarot in the wake of 20th century with the rise of the "Hermetic Order Of The Golden Dawn" and others - all of them with (free?) masonic ties in one or another form.

All had the urge to find a "system" IN the Tarot cards and because they didn't know about the syntax of "The Unbound Book Of LEAVES" they focused on the SEMANTICS and produced their OWN likable "stories" with NEW pictures and NEW cards.

That would be like entrusting the The Walt Disney Company with the restoration of the Ziggurats of Mesopotamia when they were still buried under the sand and in rubble.

Now apply that logic to any other historical find that at first seemed "far out" and "unintelligible" like cuneiform script for example.

What good had it done when The Epic Of Gilgamesh had been written anew by Hormuzd Rassam and George Smith due to their own "feelings" before most of the cuneiform characters couldn't even been spelled correctly?

Andrew R. George would not have had found much to do - more than a century later - because all was said and done already - and LOST - right?

Please consider the above outrage (that can be by no means considered accurate and complete) only as an expression of my personal amazement when I'm confronted with such irritating procedures.

A remark on behalf of Jean's LEFOV I'd like to add in this context because the subject is very closely related:
You may probably know the quote attributed (probably erroneously) to Sigmund Freud - who was quite obsessed with "penile problematization" in his very own cult - that "sometimes a cigar is just a cigar"?

Well - in the case of LEFOV it is just so!
A "V" sometimes IS "just" a "V"...

...(probably ca. 1725 as suggested by Michael Dummett and not in print) - a "Tarot de Besançon" (where the II & the V are renamed as "JUNO" > the Roman equivalent to the Greek "HERA" = Goddess of women and marriage & "JUPITER"" > the Roman equivalent to the Greek "ZEUS" = God of sky and thunder) and wanted to explain on behalf of the truth here that in a "semantic" sense both are very good choices (when you know for whom the II & the V originally stood and you consider in the case of the II the original etymological meaning ""young cow, heifer ( > for sacrifice)" - even though both are in NO way styled "syntactically" correct.

Just so is the case of LEFOV: you can learn something about his REAL nature when you add some later WELL made mistakes together.
A. E. WAITE - A. Crowley & O. Wirth are very easy on the eyes for that purpose...

...and another thing came to my mind when I drifted along those coasts of thought:

You should consider when you hear about the "L’Hombre" card play that the interpretations of the etymology of that name may not necessarily be correct and/or complete.

In addition to "The MAN" the title of the card play draws also on the French word "L'ombre" "The SHADOW" (of "The MAN") just like A. Martini, 1739 said it in his title: