theurge14:Mexico does have stricter gun control laws. But thanks to the relaxed gun laws in states like Arizona, Mexican cartels have US citizens purchase arms in the US and then smuggle them across the border. The Mexican President has even publicly stated that the expiration of the US 2004 Assault Weapons Ban is directly linked to the increased violence thanks to assault weapons making their way south of the border. A quick Google can bring up many articles on this.

Yeah, but those guns are ILLEGAL!

So how do all these mexicans keep getting them?

Next you will tell me that ILLEGAL drugs are pouring across the border from Mexico into the US and Americans are buying them and our President has said that there is a direct link between that and all this violence!

I'm incredibly encouraged to see the vigilantes have access to assault rifles and black guns in tactical kit(folding stocks, hi cap mags). This really an advantage for them; or at least, having AR and AK clones at the ready lets them more ably fight back against the cartel.

Good thing those kinds of weapons weren't outlawed in Mexico, like they were in the US.

BojanglesPaladin:spacelord321: It wasn't just the drug war. We share the blame for allowing our corporations to close shop and move to Mexico, where they could pay the Mexicans next to nothing and toss them out on their asses when they became too old. It really is disgusting what we have helped do to their country.

Can you explaoim how more industry and jobs (even if crappy ones) caused rampant violence, police corruption, warlord drug cartels and a near total descent into bloody chaos?

Not defending the companies, but destabilization is counter to their own interests too. I'm, not sure you aren't confusing correlation with causation, so could you please explain how auto factories and manufacturing facilities caused this?

/And also who is this "we"?

Mexico had a lot of smaller, local economies. You could go buy your goods from each other. Prices were low, wages were low. But all necessities were met. Enter Big Corporation. It wipes out the farms, the small local vendors and replaces them with One Company that pays a bit better, but then the people in these places can no longer buy the necessities they could before. So their better pay becomes useless- and worse the items they need are more expensive now. So you get movements to the cities and the border in order to find a better life.

Free Trade isn't about better wages. It is about taking advantage of lower wages in one place to create a product that sells for cheaper in the other place.

BojanglesPaladin:This would have never happened if Mexico had gun control laws./ ....

Mexico actually has extremely strict gun control laws. There was a fark article of some American sentenced to jail for years because he crossed the border with an antique gun in his car. And he only crossed the border because he needed to turn around on the highway in a truck (I think the agents told him to just cross the border, turn around, and come back). .

Next you will tell me that ILLEGAL drugs are pouring across the border from Mexico into the US and Americans are buying them and our President has said that there is a direct link between that and all this violence!

dittybopper:Mikey1969: Hundreds of armed vigilantes have taken control of a town on a major highway in the Pacific coast state of Guerrero, arresting local police officers and searching homes after a vigilante leader was killed. Several opened fire on a car of Mexican tourists headed to the beach for Easter week.

And that, my friends,is why vigilantism is a bad, BAD idea...

[www.naturalnews.com image 400x225]

Absolutely. Leave it to the professionals.

Still don't want a bunch of vigilantes running around. Doesn't mean that I don't think a lot of police departments need their ranks thinned a LOT and some mandatory training implemented.

Man's completely skinned head, two severed forearms arranged on each side (one hand holding his severed penis and scrotum)The word "metra" spelled out on sidewalk with human entrailsMen's head skins draped over a sidewalk queue poleA bunch of other human giblets strewn about

BojanglesPaladin:theurge14: Mexico does have stricter gun control laws. But thanks to the relaxed gun laws in states like Arizona, Mexican cartels have US citizens purchase arms in the US and then smuggle them across the border. The Mexican President has even publicly stated that the expiration of the US 2004 Assault Weapons Ban is directly linked to the increased violence thanks to assault weapons making their way south of the border. A quick Google can bring up many articles on this.

Yeah, but those guns are ILLEGAL!

So how do all these mexicans keep getting them?

Next you will tell me that ILLEGAL drugs are pouring across the border from Mexico into the US and Americans are buying them and our President has said that there is a direct link between that and all this violence!

willfullyobscure:I'm incredibly encouraged to see the vigilantes have access to assault rifles and black guns in tactical kit(folding stocks, hi cap mags). This really an advantage for them; or at least, having AR and AK clones at the ready lets them more ably fight back against the cartel.

Good thing those kinds of weapons weren't outlawed in Mexico, like they were in the US.

I'm not too concerned about having to defend myself or family from cartels. The benefit of living in the US

ShawnDoc:I don't know, sound like Tea Party heaven. Who needs police and prosecutors, we'll just form our own vigilante group.

Because the cops over there cannot be trusted. They are criminals themselves who have been caught on video allowing gangsters to do their work. Because the prosecutors never prosecute the right people. Because the entire system is corrupt from top to bottom.

Nadie_AZ:Mexico had a lot of smaller, local economies. You could go buy your goods from each other. Prices were low, wages were low. But all necessities were met. Enter Big Corporation. It wipes out the farms, the small local vendors and replaces them with One Company that pays a bit better, but then the people in these places can no longer buy the necessities they could before. So their better pay becomes useless- and worse the items they need are more expensive now. So you get movements to the cities and the border in order to find a better life.

I can appreciate that hypothetical, but how well does it comport with reality? Mexico's economy has been a complete shiathole for decades and decades, and I vaguely recall that over the last decade or so, it has been improving a little. What you describe is a textbook anti-capitalism scenario. Not that it isn't true or doesn't happen, but I think we are better off making sure that supposition matches reality. I am not an expert on the Mexican economy, so I am open to additional information before I draw a conclusion regarding economic consequences.

I would also be interested to see median and average per capita income levels in Mexico over the last decade as well as any cost of living increase or inflation.

Lastly, you have not shown how this has CAUSED an uptick in violence at the level and type that we have seen/

BojanglesPaladin:Nadie_AZ: Mexico had a lot of smaller, local economies. You could go buy your goods from each other. Prices were low, wages were low. But all necessities were met. Enter Big Corporation. It wipes out the farms, the small local vendors and replaces them with One Company that pays a bit better, but then the people in these places can no longer buy the necessities they could before. So their better pay becomes useless- and worse the items they need are more expensive now. So you get movements to the cities and the border in order to find a better life.

I can appreciate that hypothetical, but how well does it comport with reality? Mexico's economy has been a complete shiathole for decades and decades, and I vaguely recall that over the last decade or so, it has been improving a little. What you describe is a textbook anti-capitalism scenario. Not that it isn't true or doesn't happen, but I think we are better off making sure that supposition matches reality. I am not an expert on the Mexican economy, so I am open to additional information before I draw a conclusion regarding economic consequences.

I would also be interested to see median and average per capita income levels in Mexico over the last decade as well as any cost of living increase or inflation.

Lastly, you have not shown how this has CAUSED an uptick in violence at the level and type that we have seen/

Who cares? It doesn't matter the cause or what effect it has - it is just another opportunity for farkers to blame Republicans/Democrats/Socialists/Fundies/Pinko/Commies/Hipsters. It's a never ending stream of blame that will never solve anything and doesn't serve any purpose other than to let some of the most outspoken Farkers pontificate to each other in the goal to maybe one day hold dominion over the entire shallow, pointless conversation.

violentsalvation:At what point will we formally declare Mexico a failed state? Corruption is everywhere, public officials who cannot be corrupted are killed. There is no free press because journalists who actually report their civil war are killed. Over six years, estimates up to 100,000 dead, 1.6 million displaced refugees. All for an unwinnable drug war.

Can anyone tell me if whatever substance you or your friends favor has seen a jump in price or reduced availability over the last six years? People I know who use have told me no, but that might be because my proximity to the border.

The United States has a bad habit of funding those creating civil wars: Mexico, Syria, Egypt, Libya.

BojanglesPaladin:Nadie_AZ: Mexico had a lot of smaller, local economies. You could go buy your goods from each other. Prices were low, wages were low. But all necessities were met. Enter Big Corporation. It wipes out the farms, the small local vendors and replaces them with One Company that pays a bit better, but then the people in these places can no longer buy the necessities they could before. So their better pay becomes useless- and worse the items they need are more expensive now. So you get movements to the cities and the border in order to find a better life.

I can appreciate that hypothetical, but how well does it comport with reality? Mexico's economy has been a complete shiathole for decades and decades, and I vaguely recall that over the last decade or so, it has been improving a little. What you describe is a textbook anti-capitalism scenario. Not that it isn't true or doesn't happen, but I think we are better off making sure that supposition matches reality. I am not an expert on the Mexican economy, so I am open to additional information before I draw a conclusion regarding economic consequences.

I would also be interested to see median and average per capita income levels in Mexico over the last decade as well as any cost of living increase or inflation.

Lastly, you have not shown how this has CAUSED an uptick in violence at the level and type that we have seen/

Well, if I can no longer feed my family, what am I going to do? Look for an opportunity to do so. However, I think that has led to people moving to the cities (and creating those huge shanty like towns) or going North. I know drug cartels attract young adult men because they figure they'd rather have a few years of living a good life versus living a long life of crushing poverty.

As for an uptick in violence- didn't that coincide with the previous President's decision to use force against the cartels?

Mexico's history is like others in Latin America- you've got a caste type system in place with those in power near the top, a small middle class and lots of poor people.

I know conservatives hate to hear this kind of thing, but examples like this from Mexico and other shiatholes around the world demonstrate why a strong centralized government is vital for protecting people's freedom. Not TOO strong, mind you, but right there in the sweet spot like a lot of western nations have found.

Or we could say screw the government and just arm everyone to the teeth so they can "protect themselves," in which case you've essentially got Somalia.

fireclown:Members of the area's self-described "community police" say more than 1,500 members of the force were stopping traffic Wednesday at improvised checkpoints in the town of Tierra Colorado, which sits on the highway connecting Mexico City to Acapulco.

1,500? That's about two battalions. That's not a gang, that's an effing army.

The Dog Ate My Homework:I know conservatives hate to hear this kind of thing, but examples like this from Mexico and other shiatholes around the world demonstrate why a strong centralized government is vital for protecting people's freedom. Not TOO strong, mind you, but right there in the sweet spot like a lot of western nations have found.

Or we could say screw the government and just arm everyone to the teeth so they can "protect themselves," in which case you've essentially got Somalia.

I don't think anyone reasonable is so much against a central government that they think the government shouldn't be able to move against bands of drug lords murdering their way across the country.

What you present is a false choice. Either stronger government powers, or lawless wandering vigilante brigades.

Mikey1969:Hundreds of armed vigilantes have taken control of a town on a major highway in the Pacific coast state of Guerrero, arresting local police officers and searching homes after a vigilante leader was killed. Several opened fire on a car of Mexican tourists headed to the beach for Easter week.

And that, my friends,is why vigilantism is a bad, BAD idea...

Except government has admitted it is unable to do its job so what is the alternative?

The Mexican maid asked for a pay increase.The wife was very upset about this and decided to talk to her about the raise.She asked, "Now Maria, why do you want a pay increase?"Maria: "Well, Señora, there are tree reasons why I wanna increaze. The first is that I iron betterthan you."Wife: "Who said you iron better than me?"Maria: "Jor huzban he say so."Wife: "Oh yeah?"Maria: "The second reason eez that I am a better cook than you."Wife: "Nonsense, who said you were a better cook than me?"Maria: "Jor hozban did"Wife increasingly agitated: "Oh he did, did he?"Maria: "The third reason is that I am better at sex than you in the bed."Wife, really boiling now and through gritted teeth asks, "And did my husband say that as well?"Maria: "No Señora The gardener did."..Wife: "So how much do you want?"

hasty ambush:Mikey1969: Hundreds of armed vigilantes have taken control of a town on a major highway in the Pacific coast state of Guerrero, arresting local police officers and searching homes after a vigilante leader was killed. Several opened fire on a car of Mexican tourists headed to the beach for Easter week.

And that, my friends,is why vigilantism is a bad, BAD idea...

Except government has admitted it is unable to do its job so what is the alternative?

I don't know, but I don't think it's civilians with no training that can't distinguish between turistas and Cartel members...