WWI Digest 388
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: Rigging stuff...
by Mark Shannon
2) Re: Ah'm Back!
by Mark Shannon
3) Re: Book Opinions
by "Stuart L. Malone"
4) Re: Book Opinions
by hartc@spot.Colorado.EDU (Charles Hart)
5) Rare book, American Armies & Battlefields In Europe
by ilyam@pipeline.com (Carl J. Bobrow)
6) Datum line etc.
by Bill Bacon
7) help
by "Valenciano . Jose"
8) Re:
by Joseph Gentile
9) Re: Datum line etc.
by "Longshot"
10) RE: Datum line etc.
by Shane Weier
11) ooohh, I say!
by Erik Pilawskii
12) Re: Re[2]: Nieuport articles
by bucky@mail.prolog.net (Mary-Ann/Michael)
13) Re: Ah'm Back!
by bucky@mail.prolog.net (Mary-Ann/Michael)
14) Re: Ah'm Back!
by Alberto Rada
15) Re: Fee Questions
by Alberto Rada
16) Re: Brussels Air Museum
by gspring@ix.netcom.com
17) RE: Ah'm Back!
by Shane Weier
18) DML Sopwith Camel???
by Jesse William Leo Stuart
19) Re: Fee Questions
by "Valenciano . Jose"
20) Re: DML Sopwith Camel???
by "Valenciano . Jose"
21) Re: DML Sopwith Camel???
by john@rollmodels.com (John Roll)
22) Re: Book Opinions
by mbittner@juno.com
23) Testors/Hawk Nie.17
by mbittner@juno.com
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Mon, 06 Jan 1997 12:05:40 -0600
From: Mark Shannon
To: wwi
Subject: Re: Rigging stuff...
Message-ID: <32D13EF4.1E46@ix.netcom.com>
mbittner@juno.com wrote:
>
> On Sun, 5 Jan 1997 20:18:20 -0500 "Valenciano . Jose"
> writes:
>
> > Were turnbuckles present on every rigging line on a plane? What
> > do you guys use to simulate turnbuckles?
>
> Not sure if they were present everywhere, but in 1/72nd, who's
> going to notice if they're there or not? What do you 1/48th guys
> use?
>
> Matt
> mbittner@juno.com
Personally, I cheat. I use a fishing knot that gives a long knot (sort
of looks like the hangman's noose knot, but it's tied differently).
When touched with a drop of CA that runs into the loops and
smooths them, then painted in a slightly contrasting color from the rest
of the 'wire' it looks like a turnbuckle until you haul out your
microscope. (I use transparent nylon and fishing leader for the
rigging, natch.)
The knot is relatively easy to tie:
Pass the line through a fixed loop or eye on the structure. The free
end is then wrapped up the standing portion for at least five wraps, or
until the length you want. Now the hard part, run the free end through
the loop formed at the eye, then back through the loop this forms. (It's
easier to see than describe) Carefully pull the knot tight. This works
great when you are starting a length of line, because then you can pull
it taut through the next rigging point. There is a variation of this
knot that is used in the middle of a line (to drop a loop off to one
side) that can be used to form a 'floating' turnbuckle.
--
This has been Mark and/or Mary Shannon
at Shingend@ix.netcom.com
Remember that every cliche started out as a stroke of genius.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 06 Jan 1997 12:15:47 -0600
From: Mark Shannon
To: wwi
Subject: Re: Ah'm Back!
Message-ID: <32D14153.36E4@ix.netcom.com>
Valenciano . Jose wrote:
>
> Hi All,
>
> A Happy and prolific New Year to all.
>
> May I start a thread here?
>
> What models have we finished & worked on this year?
>
> Finished:
> DML Fokker Dr.I
> Eduard Eindekker
> Eduard SSW D.III
>
> Worked on:
> Sierra AEG G.IV
> Sierra H.B. 29
> Sierra Roland C.II
>
> How about you?
>
> *********************************************************************
>
> Joey Valenciano WW1 modeller, teacher, jazz musician,
> joeyval@pusit.admu.edu.ph sitarist
> tel. (632) 921-26-75
> Metro-Manila, Philippines
>
> "The more you know, the more you don't know."
>
> *********************************************************************
--
Um, I'm afraid this has been a non-WWI year in terms of my model output.
I started the year with Richtoffen's Dr.I 152/17 from the DML kit, and
Stark's D.VII, but after that it was ships.
So:
DML Fokker Triplane
DML Fokker D.VII
and off topic:
Matchbox 1/700 H.M.S. Exeter (with a lot of scratchbuild correction)
Matchbox 1/700 H.M.S. Kelly (Turned into H.M.S. Jupiter)
Skywave 1/700 U.S.S. Atlanta (Finished as October, 1942, U.S.S. Juneau)
Albatros 1/700 Sumner Class (Finished as DD-702 U.S.S. Hank)
Skywave 1/700 LST's, LSM, LCT, LCI, LCT(R)
AND
Revell 1/720 (actually, closer to 1/710) H.M.S. Ark Royal and Tribal DD
(Lots of correction)
Oh, yeah, there was also a big four engined job from the second world
unpleasantness.
This has been Mark and/or Mary Shannon
at Shingend@ix.netcom.com
Remember that every cliche started out as a stroke of genius.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 06 Jan 1997 14:32:45 +0000
From: "Stuart L. Malone"
To: wwi
Subject: Re: Book Opinions
Message-ID: <32D10D0D.4789@sound.net>
Simon Bosworth wrote:
>
> I just picked up a book titled 'German Aircraft of the First World War'
> by Gray & Thetford. It appears to be a useful book. Does anyone have any
> opinions re its value, (accuracy etc)?
It was one of the first reference books I purchased. I really enjoy it
personally....
I also have the WW2 German, and WW2 Japanese books by Putnam, that I
find invaluable.
I have asked before and received no replies, but have you seen one of
these tomes on WWI British or French A/C?
Stuart L. Malone
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 6 Jan 1997 14:27:34 -0700
From: hartc@spot.Colorado.EDU (Charles Hart)
To: wwi
Subject: Re: Book Opinions
Message-ID:
>Simon Bosworth wrote:
>>
>> I just picked up a book titled 'German Aircraft of the First World War'
>> by Gray & Thetford. It appears to be a useful book. Does anyone have any
>> opinions re its value, (accuracy etc)?
Stuart replied:
>I also have the WW2 German, and WW2 Japanese books by Putnam, that I
>find invaluable.
>
>I have asked before and received no replies, but have you seen one of
>these tomes on WWI British or French A/C?
Jack Bruce produced a couple of volumes on aspects of RFC and RAF
aircraft of the first world war, exact titles escape my memory. As for
French a/c of WW I, this is why the Flying Machines Press volume for this
spring is so eagerly awaited. There are numerous French machines for which
published documentation is remarkably lacking. Considering how important
the French air service was in the Western Front, publications about them,
in any language, are difficult or non-existent.
My US$ 0.02 worth.
Charles
hartc@spot.colorado.edu
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 6 Jan 1997 17:29:10 -0500
From: ilyam@pipeline.com (Carl J. Bobrow)
To: wwi
Subject: Rare book, American Armies & Battlefields In Europe
Message-ID:
I am selling my copy of "American Armies & Battlefields In Europe". For
those of you in the know this is a valuable as well as a hard item to find,
sale price on request. For those of you who do not know about it, it is
500+ pages with 80+ fold-out maps photos comments and an attached pocket
with 3 major maps with remarkable details of the Aisne-Marne, St. Mihiel
and Meuse-Argonne front lines.
Carl
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 06 Jan 1997 14:55:36 -0600
From: Bill Bacon
To: "World War I modeler's list"
Subject: Datum line etc.
Message-ID: <32D166C8.3E64@netjava.net>
Friends,
The scale police, color police, Scotland Yard, FBI, CIA and all local
police will be on me for this.
All this talk about plans gets me. I spent most of my working life in
quality control so know a bit whereof I speak. The point was made that
photo copying can change the "size" of te drawing. Agreeed most
wholeheartedly. The "plans" we use are at best glorified general
assembly drawings. A drawing from which something is manufactured, must
have a tolerance (acceptable deviation from the ideal) plus orminus
something as it is impossible to make all pieces exactly the same.
Ergo, the wingspan, wing chord, etc. are the designed ideal but how many
a/c were exactly that measurement. Secondly, thaking a set of dividers
or ruler to take the drawing wing chord is called scaleing ther drawing
and can lead toall kinds of trouble. We all do it but it rally ait't
right. This brings us back to the point, who in hell knows what is
right. I' bet the the Camels at the IWM, Canadian War Museum, Old
Rhinebeck, NASM, RAF Hendon, and USAFM all look the same, would or do
fly, but under the microscope of the 1:1 scale police there would be
hell to pay. Are we not picking flyspecks out of pepper?
Want to drive them nuts? Just ask them if the A/C rigging was checked
to the now famous (on this list at least) datum line. How many of us
have ever checked incidence, stagger, gap, symetry etc. to the datum
line or point when we build a model. IF IT LOOKS RIGHT mos ofus are
home free. The potification of kit reviewers blows my mind. The
reviews of Revell 1/28 D-VII in several reviews didn't pick upon the
reversed taper of the wing. Experts? Best definition: A drip under
pressure.
I agree that color references are only a guide and where the known
definition of colors used on post WW1 a/c are known, they are are only a
place tho start.
So much for my soap box for today
Cheers,
Bill
Bill Bacon
wbacon@netjava.net
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 7 Jan 1997 07:02:44 +0800 (GMT+0800)
From: "Valenciano . Jose"
To: wwi
Subject: help
Message-ID:
Hi all, it seems that I've been unsubscribed again these past days.
Yesterday I made an inquiry about Fe2b data.
Any posts to the list answering this question did not reach me.
I have since resubscribed. Could anyone who replied to the Fe2b questions
please repost so I could get them?
Thanks a bundle.
*********************************************************************
Joey Valenciano WW1 modeller, teacher, jazz musician,
joeyval@pusit.admu.edu.ph sitarist
tel. (632) 921-26-75
Metro-Manila, Philippines
"The more you know, the more you don't know."
*********************************************************************
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 6 Jan 1997 17:17:50 -0600 (CST)
From: Joseph Gentile
To: wwi
Subject: Re:
Message-ID: <199701062317.RAA14439@Walden.MO.NET>
At 11:52 AM 1/6/97 -0500, you wrote:
> On seat belts:
>
>What was the seat belt situation of 2-seaters (German, English, French). The
>observer usually had a little stool. Did he have a seat belt?? Did the pilot
>usually have shoulder straps as well as a lap strap? Or was it assumed that
>2-seaters would not fly uside down?
>
>thank you
>
>paf
>
I've just started the Koster 1/48 Hannover vac. It has included two sets of
leather lap belts, one for the observer and another for the pilot. This
seems to be substantiated by drawings I have from WWI Aero and other
resources that Bill sent me when I purchased the kit. I believe that the
rationale for going with the Argus engines in the Hannover machines despite
it's poorer performance at higher altitudes was that the bird would not be
operating above 9000 feet. Maybe the bureaucracy thought that Schlasta
personnel only flew on a level plane.
Joe
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 6 Jan 1997 16:22:04 -0700
From: "Longshot"
To:
Subject: Re: Datum line etc.
Message-ID: <199701062322.PAA25018@dfw-ix7.ix.netcom.com>
Well put, Bill. Even allowing for the occasional obsessive that has
the time to mike out a kit, almost all of us are doing this because
it is fun, relaxing, escapism or a combination of all three. Anymore,
I build maybe two kits a year--too many other demands on my free
time. None of the people I show the completed model to are going
to say "OOOO! You idiot! You should have smoothed off the ribbing
and used a different shade of red." because I won't let people like
that into my life.
Still too dam' many people looking for their 15 minutes.
Larry Armin
----------
> From: Bill Bacon
> To: Multiple recipients of list
> Subject: Datum line etc.
> Date: Monday, January 06, 1997 3:48 PM
>
> Friends,
>
> The scale police, color police, Scotland Yard, FBI, CIA and all local
> police will be on me for this.
I'll guard your back! 8-)
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 7 Jan 1997 09:24:25 +1100
From: Shane Weier
To: "'wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu'"
Subject: RE: Datum line etc.
Message-ID: <01BBFC7C.93F26060@pc087b.mim.com.au>
Hi Bill,
I agree most whole heartedly with your soapbox speech except
>Want to drive them nuts? Just ask them if the A/C rigging was checked
>to the now famous (on this list at least) datum line. How many of us
>have ever checked incidence, stagger, gap, symetry etc. to the datum
>line or point when we build a model. IF IT LOOKS RIGHT mos ofus are
>home free.
You can bet I won't be levelling up my models and rigging them according to
the manual, just so they look like the plans I'm using as a guide to the
real shape.
BUT.. and this was the point of the datum line discussion.... where that
dirty big black line shows on the photos I guess I'll put it on my models
too. And now that we all have a fair idea of why it's there, we can add
one more tidbit to the list of things we've learned pursuing the hobby. Of
course, whether the wing incidence and stagger bear any realtionship to my
black decal stripe will be pure accident ;-)
Shane
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 6 Jan 1997 15:33:18 -0800 (PST)
From: Erik Pilawskii
To: Multiple recipients of list
Subject: ooohh, I say!
Message-ID:
> Wrote letters to Betty Wright and Helen Mead this evening. Betty is
> certainly a bright little friend.
>
A ha! The Cheek! And what are we to make of this? Is Mr.E.C.C. Genet as
stupid as we have assumed? Is Gertie a well-built ship that passed of the
starboard bow?
And what shall we read into this 'pontificate' language "a bright little
friend"??? Hmmm! Methinks the Diary conceals much!....
Cheers, Erik
::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
"If you're not living Life on the edge, you're taking up too much room!"
..............................................................................
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 6 Jan 1997 18:57:16 -0500
From: bucky@mail.prolog.net (Mary-Ann/Michael)
To: wwi, Multiple recipients of list
Subject: Re: Re[2]: Nieuport articles
Message-ID: <199701062357.SAA23654@pease1.sr.unh.edu>
At 12:22 AM 1/6/97 -0500, Ray Boorman wrote:
MAJOR LEAGUE, BIG TIME DELETIONS
>Big problem with the struts. If you correct anything this would be the
>thing. The struts in front of the cockpit should be angled from either side
>of the cockpit to meet under the upper wing. The Kit has them going
>straight up. Now maybe some were built this way but all the refer3ences I
>had show them meeting. Note this is the rear set of struts just in front of
>the cockpit not the front ones behind the cowl.
What I've been doing is mixing the Smer kit and the Testor's for the
struts closest to the cockpit. I know I've seen sone Bebe's with the struts
not meeting at the middle. So, I just take the Smer inverted v -shaped strut
and used it on the testors, and vice versa. Cheap and relatively effective.
More than anything else, very easy those those of us who are a tad clumsy.
Mike Muth
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 6 Jan 1997 18:57:17 -0500
From: bucky@mail.prolog.net (Mary-Ann/Michael)
To: wwi, Multiple recipients of list
Subject: Re: Ah'm Back!
Message-ID: <199701062357.SAA23657@pease1.sr.unh.edu>
At 12:37 AM 1/6/97 -0500, Ray Boorman wrote:
>
>Yes I know I build slower than a tortoise and worse than that not a single
>1/48th. (I'll go hide my head in shame)
And well you should!
Mike Muth
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 6 Jan 1997 20:05:15 -0400 (AST)
From: Alberto Rada
To: wwi
Subject: Re: Ah'm Back!
Message-ID: <199701070005.UAA00801@fw.true.net>
At 07:03 PM 1/5/97 -0500, you wrote:
>What models have we finished & worked on this year?
>
All in 1/48, naturally,
Finished:
Pfaltz D III a Blue Max, beautiful kit, although the upper wing tends to
be too low.
Morane Saulnier L Eduard, lovely when finished, but most be careful with the
wheel spokes, as the ones included are German not French
RAF FE2b Aeroclub, perfect , no buts , I love this kit
Working At:
Albatross D V Eduard, nice plastic parts for once, haven't been able to
do the wood grain, I have tried about ten different techniques
without much success, a friend of mine that only builds motorcicle
kits, lent me a magazine Scale Auto Enthusiast No. 105 October
1996 that has a very good article on the subject and I have the
feeling this is it. ( any one interested I can fax it, but a lot of color
photographs wont came through, so if any one interested can get
hold of the magazine, I recommend it.
Nieuport 17 Hobby Craft ( 1/32 ) Our Transport Museum is preparing a new
Aviation exhibition and they need big size models, anyway I think
it is a lovely model, needs some work to be added, but it's OK
Future: Que sera sera , who ever will know, will know . Once every month
or so I bring out all the models and datafiles and try to see what will
be next, but don't seem to reach a conclusion, so I think that's part
of the hobby ( a nice part though )
SALUDOS
ALBERTO
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 6 Jan 1997 20:13:16 -0400 (AST)
From: Alberto Rada
To: wwi
Subject: Re: Fee Questions
Message-ID: <199701070013.UAA00941@fw.true.net>
At 07:10 PM 1/5/97 -0500, you wrote:
>
>Hi everyall,
>
>I'm starting off on the Aeroclub Fe2b.
>
>
>3. To anyone with the Fe2b Datafile, may I have copies of interior photos
>and 3view drawings? I need to know the correct shape of the 4 bladed prop
>(I think the Aeroclub prop could be improved), and where the rudder cables
>exit from the nacelle.
>
Joey
If you give me your fax number I will certainly fax you any information you
need, and you
will find the answer to the ruder cables question, as of the four blade
propeller improvement,
well I'm not certain it needs improvement, the only thing better to this,
would be scratch building it from laminated wood ( I certainly can't do it )
or buy it
from Martin Digmayer in the Czech Republic.
You'll also need to scratch build some pulleys that the kit needs and are
not included, also
the seat is a bit thick, don't you think ? , the instrument panel can also
be improved .
let me know
SALUDOS
ALBERTO
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 6 Jan 1997 16:31:55 -0800
From: gspring@ix.netcom.com
To: wwi
Subject: Re: Brussels Air Museum
Message-ID: <199716183039241@ix.netcom.com>
Hi Peter!
On 01/06/97 11:55:17 you wrote:
>
> On the air museum in Brussels:
>Any help here will be greatly appreciated
I last visited it in 1988 so my info may be dated.
>1) On what days is it closed?
This is not in the guidebook I purchased at the museum but you can probably
count on it being closed on national holidays. Belgium is a Catholic
country so there are a number of religious holidays as well.
>2) Can I take photographs in there? Flash?? Tripod??
I was politely but firmly (in French) requested to leave all photo gear in
the check room. The personnel at the entrance were Air Force types but none
spoke English. I believe that they are desirous of selling post cards and
literature at the gift shop rather than letting you take pictures for
free. My gear was cheerfully returned when I left. I have read that you can
make arrangements in advance to take photos but how you go about this I
can't say. We have a Belgian member on this newsgroup. Perhaps he can
help. I quite enjoyed my visit. They were doing a number of restoration
projects on the exhibits. In 1988 they had an unrestored Halberstadt C V in
original lozenge and an unrestored LVG C VI. If you are taking the metro,
the stop is Merode. Be sure to include the 'o'! Brussels is a great town
for food and beer. E-mail me direct for some restaurant or cafe
recommendations.
Cheers!
Greg
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 7 Jan 1997 10:37:54 +1100
From: Shane Weier
To: "'wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu'"
Subject: RE: Ah'm Back!
Message-ID: <01BBFC86.D84C0AE0@pc087b.mim.com.au>
Joey asked us:
>What models have we finished & worked on this year?
Finished:
1:48 Eduard DFW T.28 Floh
1:48 Dragon Fokker D.VII (converted to mid prod OAW, Seven Swabians)
1:72 Pegasus Roland D.II
Worked on:
1:48 Bristol F.2b (Scratchbuild, now 20 months work, about 80% complete)
1:48 Albatros W.4 (conversion, using the Glencoe fuselage as a core
for a blob of milliput, plus remainder scratchbuilt, about 10%
complete)
1:48 Albatros B.II (Scratchbuilt, wings only so far)
1:48 Caproni Ca.3 (Scratchbuilt, wing skins only so far)
1:48 Nieuport 17 (accurise of Hawk kit. Fuselage corrected, wings
corrected,
lost some interest when I heard about Eduard. bout 20% done)
1:48 Airfix Spitfire F.MK.22 (Okay, so it isn't WW1, but it's a beutiful
plane.
About 10% done last year, now about 90% done, for an OoB review in a
club magazine)
Next up:
Like Alberto, I'm a fickle modeller (redundant, aren't we all?) so it could
come from any of about 60 WW1 kits secreted about my house. However the
Biff HAS to be finished this year, and I really HAVE to make an Albatros
D.V and a Sopwith Tripehound.......and a Pup, and a Baby, and an SE5a and a
Dr.I, and a......
Shane
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 6 Jan 1997 17:04:06 -0800 (PST)
From: Jesse William Leo Stuart
To: wwi
Subject: DML Sopwith Camel???
Message-ID: <199701070104.RAA07381@guzzler.ecst.csuchico.edu>
I've seen ads for the DML Camel, but my local hobby shop doesn't
think they will actually release it. Anybody heard anything about it?
==========================================================================
jwstuart@ecst.csuchico.edu
==========================================================================
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 7 Jan 1997 10:04:42 +0800 (GMT+0800)
From: "Valenciano . Jose"
To: Multiple recipients of list
Subject: Re: Fee Questions
Message-ID:
On Mon, 6 Jan 1997, Alberto Rada wrote:
> Joey
>
> will find the answer to the ruder cables question, as of the four blade
> propeller improvement,
> well I'm not certain it needs improvement, the only thing better to this,
> would be scratch building it from laminated wood ( I certainly can't do it )
> or buy it
> from Martin Digmayer in the Czech Republic.
I would imagine that all the blades should have a slight twist built into
them, just like most other props. If I do knock one up, I'll laminate
0.5mm plastic of two colors in alternating layers. This will guide me in
making the blades a uniform shape.
> also the seat is a bit thick, don't you think ?
Yes, I worked on this already. I filed the back of the backrest until the
metal in the lightening holes started to dip then I punched them through
with a blunt needle.
I would imagine that the pilot would have a lap strap as in the Be2c. But
how did the observer sit in his position?! Just to see how he might have
sat, I placed a sitting figure on the "ass rest" (sorry, dunno what to
call it, it's the thing that juts out of the bulkhead). God, the figure
had the whole top of his torso (from the hips up) exposed! How did he keep
from falling out?
*********************************************************************
Joey Valenciano WW1 modeller, teacher, jazz musician,
joeyval@pusit.admu.edu.ph sitarist
tel. (632) 921-26-75
Metro-Manila, Philippines
"The more you know, the more you don't know."
*********************************************************************
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 7 Jan 1997 10:10:53 +0800 (GMT+0800)
From: "Valenciano . Jose"
To: Multiple recipients of list
Subject: Re: DML Sopwith Camel???
Message-ID:
On Mon, 6 Jan 1997, Jesse William Leo Stuart wrote:
> I've seen ads for the DML Camel, but my local hobby shop doesn't
> think they will actually release it. Anybody heard anything about it?
I suppose this would be a good time to ask again,
Does anyone have any comments (give a review) of Monogram's Sopwith Camel?
Is it an original mould or did they get it from Aurora too?
*********************************************************************
Joey Valenciano WW1 modeller, teacher, jazz musician,
joeyval@pusit.admu.edu.ph sitarist
tel. (632) 921-26-75
Metro-Manila, Philippines
"The more you know, the more you don't know."
*********************************************************************
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 6 Jan 1997 20:32:11 -0500
From: john@rollmodels.com (John Roll)
To: wwi
Subject: Re: DML Sopwith Camel???
Message-ID:
Jesse hopefully typed:
> I've seen ads for the DML Camel, but my local hobby shop doesn't
>think they will actually release it. Anybody heard anything about it?
Sadly, everything that I've heard would seem to confirm this. The latest
information from DML has no mention of the Camel. If they were going to
release it, there would be some kind of PR.
Boy do I hope I'm wrong!
John Roll
john@rollmodels.com
http://www.rollmodels.com
The Internet Model Shop
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 06 Jan 1997 21:22:07 EST
From: mbittner@juno.com
To: wwi
Subject: Re: Book Opinions
Message-ID: <19970106.202317.14486.3.mbittner@juno.com>
On Mon, 6 Jan 1997 16:27:06 -0500 hartc@spot.Colorado.EDU
(Charles Hart) writes:
> Jack Bruce produced a couple of volumes on aspects of RFC and
> RAF aircraft of the first world war, exact titles escape my
> memory. As for French a/c of WW I, this is why the Flying
> Machines Press volume for this spring is so eagerly awaited.
> There are numerous French machines for which published
> documentation is remarkably lacking. Considering how important
> the French air service was in the Western Front, publications
> about them, in any language, are difficult or non-existent.
_The Aeroplanes of the Royal Flying Corps, Military Wing_. It's
been reprinted a number of times, so you should be able to find a
copy.
And ditto on the huge French tome due this spring. A must have,
if you like French stuff.
Matt
mbittner@juno.com
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 06 Jan 1997 21:22:06 EST
From: mbittner@juno.com
To: wwi
Subject: Testors/Hawk Nie.17
Message-ID: <19970106.202317.14486.0.mbittner@juno.com>
I hope that Shane and Ray don't mind, but I've taken the
liberty to reformat their combined Nie.17 treatise to make
it a little easier to read - as well as give credit where credit
is due. Here's the reformat, with my comments added:
(Shane, my apologies, but my computer dictionary Americanized
some of your spellings. Can't imagine why...;-))
BUILDING A NIE 17 using Testors (Hawk Mold) 1:48 kit
S> Full interior. Well, there is none, so I need a seat, stick and
S> some structure at least. I have Nie 17 Datafile and Nieuport
S> Fighters Specials and there are some good pictures in some of
S> the Windsock magazines. (Toms Modelworks French interior set
S> has many useful details appropriate to this aircraft.)
Datafile #20 is on the Nie.17. Windsock Vol. 7 No. 1 contains
some great photo's of the surviving Belgium Nie.23, some in
color.
S> Lower wing tips. For some reason they are heavily raked. Easy
S> way out would be to just square them off per the drawings, but
S> then the wings get about 1/2" too short in span, which an
S> observant judge would twig to I suspect. Trouble is that
S> lengthening the wings and disguising the joins is a tough
S> prospect.
R> Actually this might not be as bad as you think. The lower wings
R> don't have enough sweepback (I think that's the correct term).
R> Therefore if they were cut at the root and another section
R> added, it would make the correct sweepback and lengthen the
R> wing. The cuts would have to be angled on both the wing and the
R> inserted section's. Maybe cut-off pins inserted for stiffness
R> in the wing would not be out of line too.
If you add at the roots, what does this do to the ribs?
R> Also and I'm not sure about this but the incidence of the upper
R> and lower wings looks different on the plans, is this really
R> true or is this just the way the wing is show from the side?
S> Ailerons. They don't have as great an inverse taper as the
S> photos and drawings depict. It isn't too obvious, but new ones
S> shouldn't be difficult. The slots for the aileron cranks will
S> be harder, any sensible suggestion of how to cut them perfectly
S> symmetrical, insert the crank, pivot AND wing spar etc. etc.
S> gratefully accepted.
R> I was going to just smooth the cranks off and then put half
R> rings in. It doesn't really solve the problem of but it would
R> look better than the blobs that are currently in place.
What I've done on my 1/72nd Nie.11, is to use the Tom's cranks;
cut a small opening for the crank, then finish it carefully with
square files; glue the nose of the crank in; add the spar passing
it through the crank; then align and finish glueing.
Or, I might have done all three at once. I can't really
remember, and in 1/72nd it doesn't matter that the nose of the
crank is glued to the wing. I then plan on adding the rod after
everything's together.
S> Forward Fuselage. Should be asymmetrical in cross section and
S> it's clearly visible. I'll probably add a veneer of plastic
S> card or a blob of milliput to the port half and re-contour it.
S> The access panels, both sides, will need redoing too.
Use the Tom's as patterns to fashion new ones out of plastic.
R> The one thing that the plans show is that the side panels are
R> the same width just different shapes. The Revell 1/72 Nieuport
R> has this molded correctly, as I looked to try and work out what
R> the shape was on the plans?
S> Cockpit position appears to be a little far aft. I may ignore
S> this since it's not obvious. The alternative is to make a
S> vertical cut fore and aft of the cockpit, a horizontal one
S> starting at the cowl lacing and remove the cockpit coaming. Cut
S> 2mm from the front of the removed pieces and relocate forward.
S> Fill the resultant gap at the rear then move (or is it extend,
S> I don't recall) the headrest fairing to match.
R> I would also fill in the lacing it looks gross on the model and
R> redo with something a bit more subtle.
Maybe use Fotocut's lacing?
R> Rear fuselage, get rid of ribs showing through on the rear
R> fuselage, unless you are modeling an aircraft in flight. See
R> page 6 of the Datafile Special-Photo 9. Or for those who don't
R> have this the following is what happens. On the ground the
R> sides of the aircraft are smooth from the rear of the cockpit
R> back to the rudder. However in flight the fabric is pulled onto
R> the ribs (wrong word I know but my mind is blank for the
R> correct term). It is very pronounced in the photo's. However if
R> you are weathering the aircraft then dirt and oil would show
R> these lines up. (Also a way to hide mistakes on doped silver
R> surfaces.) Also fill in the footplate on the starboard side.
R> The photo's show this for the port side only.
S> Exhaust channel. Kit hasn't got one so the underside of the
S> fuselage needs cutting away and boxing in, then puttying to
S> make the shape.
S> Cowling and Engine. It might be possible to drill out the
S> engine, thin the cowling, cut the slots and add the stiffening
S> strips (is that what they are?) from strip.
At one time, Rosemont made a replacement cowling. Not sure if
it's still in production, though.
R> There were at least two styles as the Datafile shows. Strips
R> that are 5 degrees from vertical on either side, or strips that
R> were exactly horizontal on both sides of the cowl. Were their
R> other types?
As is always true with WW1 modeling, do check your sources for
the a/c you're building. These slots and stiffening strips were
at times modified in the field.
S> However I'll probably turn it down a bit on my handy dandy
S> (dangerous) drill and use it to plug mold a few shots out of 20
S> thou. Then I can mess up a few attempts at making nice even
S> slots. The engine can be an Aeroclub 110hp Le Rhone since I'm
S> not such a maniac as to scratchbuild one when there is a
S> reasonable alternative.
Doesn't Atlee make a 110hp, as well?
S> Tail skid fairing. Its a flat fin in the kit but should be
S> shaped more like half of a football. I'll carve it from plastic
S> stock.
S> Engraved markings. They have to go of course. Not too hard but
S> if I want to build a aluminum finish I may opt to skin the
S> wings in card with embossed ribs and avoid the difficulty of
S> completely erasing all sign of the old markings under a coat of
S> silver.
R> You could take off all the rib detail (easy to do since its
R> raised lines for once, not trenches) and Redo the ribs at the
R> correct angles if you change the wing sweepback. This would
R> also be another way to hide the wing filler pieces. (Under
R> whatever you use to simulate the corrected ribs)
S> Gun(s). From Aeroclub, too lazy again. I like the idea of an
S> aircraft with both Vickers and Lewis mounts, since it will make
S> it LOOK more complex without adding all that much work.
Again, replacements also from Atlee?
Not all that complex, except for that top wing, freakin' mount.
;-)
S> Tail surfaces. The rudder/fin looks a bit thick, and would be
S> easy to replace. Small effort, big effect, so I will probably
S> do it. Is the tailplane shape OK ? It differs from the plans
S> but should be easy to sand down to match.
Just replace out of card, and save yourself the hassle. Note
that this part of the Nieuport was awfully thin on the real
thing, and the ribs were not that noticeable.
S> Undercarriage. New wheels, maybe. (I don't remember if the
S> wheels are okay) The wing struts are usable with a little
S> detailing effort but the undercarriage will take more work.
R> Big problem with the struts. If you correct anything this would
R> be the thing. The struts in front of the cockpit should be
R> angled from either side of the cockpit to meet under the upper
R> wing. The Kit has them going straight up. Now maybe some were
R> built this way but all the references I had show them meeting.
R> Note this is the rear set of struts just in front of the
R> cockpit not the front ones behind the cowl.
S> Rigging. Rigging, and control horns and so on. Painful but
S> necessary for every WW1 a/c.
S> Color scheme. I'd like to build an aircraft with interesting
S> and colorful markings, but they mostly seem to be on aluminum
S> doped aircraft which means the surface modifications need to be
S> shit hot standard. I might cop out and build a nice green RFC
S> aircraft, which will avoid that trap.
Check out the German captured and flown Nie.17. A little more
interesting. Also, OtF Vol. 1 No. 1 had an article on Italian
Nieuports.
R> In the Datafile Special they show a camouflaged version for
R> Nungessor (N.1490) upper surfaces green and brown and lower
R> either clear doped or pale yellow?, also has presumed blue
R> 'Cone de penetration'. Page 16 "I" and page 28 Photo 53.
Again, Rosemont at one point had a 'cone', but I also think this
is out of production.
S> Quite a long list which makes my enthusiasm for the kit seem
S> unreasonable. But my kits are cleanly molded, fairly good
S> representations of the prototype (especially considering the
S> age of the mold), provide a neat basis for an accurate model,
S> and even if I'd paid the $5 list price damned cheap.
R> Yep its a bargain in Canuck money or Aussie. IMHO its no more
R> work than any of the Eduard models.
Well, let's just hope Eduard gets it right. If they "forgot" the
exhaust channel on the Pup, who's to say they won't on the
Nie.17? Sure, they made up for it on the Triplane, but time will
tell.
Matt
mbittner@juno.com
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End of WWI Digest 388
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