Smith gets up 0-2 and throws the FB right over the middle/outside of the plate. Santana has GOT to set up further outside on that pitch so Smith knows what his target should be. Inexcusable. That is just horrible defense by Santana.

bookelly wrote:Smith gets up 0-2 and throws the FB right over the middle/outside of the plate. Santana has GOT to set up further outside on that pitch so Smith knows what his target should be. Inexcusable. That is just horrible defense by Santana.

Look, I understand a lot of the hate for Carlos Santana behind the plate. And maybe I am just not getting what people are meaning tonight, but christ if Joe Smith throwing a cock shot up 0-2 is his fault because he didn't set up far enough outside? Heard them all now.

bookelly wrote:Smith gets up 0-2 and throws the FB right over the middle/outside of the plate. Santana has GOT to set up further outside on that pitch so Smith knows what his target should be. Inexcusable. That is just horrible defense by Santana.

Look, I understand a lot of the hate for Carlos Santana behind the plate. And maybe I am just not getting what people are meaning tonight, but christ if Joe Smith throwing a cock shot up 0-2 is his fault because he didn't set up far enough outside? Heard them all now.

He not only wasn't set-up outside...he was inside on that pitch. As if he didn't even know what sign he just gave.

bookelly wrote:Smith gets up 0-2 and throws the FB right over the middle/outside of the plate. Santana has GOT to set up further outside on that pitch so Smith knows what his target should be. Inexcusable. That is just horrible defense by Santana.

Look, I understand a lot of the hate for Carlos Santana behind the plate. And maybe I am just not getting what people are meaning tonight, but christ if Joe Smith throwing a cock shot up 0-2 is his fault because he didn't set up far enough outside? Heard them all now.

He not only wasn't set-up outside...he was inside on that pitch. As if he didn't even know what sign he just gave.

That is the most confusing thing ever.

You say he called for an outside fastball and set up on the inner half? and you think it is because he is bad, stupid, lazy or all of the above?

No idea in this case, but some times this is done intentionally. Especially for a guy like Smith. Hitter already expects something away and if Santana sets up away the hitter gets an edge. Maybe they know the guy checks where catchers set up? Of course, Santana is most of the things I said above so maybe you are right.

Never really thought of the batter checking the catcher. I had heard that this is nearly impossible to do as it changes your focal point and then you can't pick up the pitch. But it very well could be that Santana thought the guy on 2nd was stealing the signs/set-up. Good point.

And the truth is it was a really fucking shitty pitch for an 0-2 count.

The horrible relief pitching continues. Rich Hill was brought in to get Pierzynski and gives up a screaming line drive that fortunately was right at Swisher. Allen and Smith both give up two runs in one inning. Yeah, something is definitely wrong with Smith. 11 hits, 5 walks and 0 strikeouts in his last 6 innings? I think both him and Pestano have dead arms or something.

Gotta hand it to Perez and Albers for three scoreless innings to set up the win. They surprised me.

Gutsy call by Francona to take off the bunt and let Raburn swing away. If he grounds into a DP and the Tribe loses the second guessing would have been brutal. But Raburn was locked in. He already had three hits and a line drive to the left fielder, so Tito let him swing away with the infield playing for the bunt. Smart call.

Great game by Brantley. Three hits, a walk, a line drive to the first baseman, and he threw two guys out on the bases. Except he only got credit for one because Santana screwed up the tag and dropped the ball. He's so bad defensively in every phase, but especially blocking balls in the dirt and tagging out runners at the plate. He even let a guy go from first to third on a strikeout.

Michael Bourn got caught stealing - again. That's 8 times against only 13 steals, if I'm not mistaken. Is this the same guy that stole 62 bases two years ago? He's really having trouble adjusting to the American League pitchers.

Last edited by Prosecutor on Fri Jul 26, 2013 11:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.

bookelly wrote:Smith gets up 0-2 and throws the FB right over the middle/outside of the plate. Santana has GOT to set up further outside on that pitch so Smith knows what his target should be. Inexcusable. That is just horrible defense by Santana.

Look, I understand a lot of the hate for Carlos Santana behind the plate. And maybe I am just not getting what people are meaning tonight, but christ if Joe Smith throwing a cock shot up 0-2 is his fault because he didn't set up far enough outside? Heard them all now.

He not only wasn't set-up outside...he was inside on that pitch. As if he didn't even know what sign he just gave.

That is the most confusing thing ever.

You say he called for an outside fastball and set up on the inner half? and you think it is because he is bad, stupid, lazy or all of the above?

No idea in this case, but some times this is done intentionally. Especially for a guy like Smith. Hitter already expects something away and if Santana sets up away the hitter gets an edge. Maybe they know the guy checks where catchers set up? Of course, Santana is most of the things I said above so maybe you are right.

I particularly enjoyed his lazy dropped third strike that hit him where he was holding the glove and his lazier slow jog to the backstop on the next passed ball that allowed a guy to go 1b to 3b.

He's special back there. Perfect embodiment of this team's defensive approach.

skatingtripods wrote:How can he get left handed hitters out when nearly 67% of his pitches to lefties are down and in? Most lefties like the ball down there.

Am I missing something? That chart says it's from the CATCHER's point of view, not the pitcher's. Which means that Smitty's keeping the ball down and away from lefties, not down and in. Correct me if I'm wrong.

skatingtripods wrote:How can he get left handed hitters out when nearly 67% of his pitches to lefties are down and in? Most lefties like the ball down there.

Am I missing something? That chart says it's from the CATCHER's point of view, not the pitcher's. Which means that Smitty's keeping the ball down and away from lefties, not down and in. Correct me if I'm wrong.

Yeah, you're right. Makes it even worse than LHB are slugging .493 off him when he's working down there.

A God Damn dead man would understand that if a minor league bus in any city took a real sharp right turn, a Zack McCalister would likely fall out. - Lead Pipe

Lefties have a .843 OPS against Smith versus .552 against right-handed hitters. Francona may think of Smith as a guy who can get both out, but the numbers prove that's not the case. A nearly 300 point differential can't be ignored.

The problem is that we have no effective left-handed relievers so Tito has to go with Smith against lefties. We really need to trade one of our middle infield prospects that's blocked by Lindor and Kipnis for a decent lefty out of the pen. Rich Hill is horrible.

Smith's ERA by months:

April 0.00May 1.80June 3.65July 8.22 (.355 BAA)

He's fallen off the cliff. There must be something wrong with his arm.

Biggest thing is that hitters aren't chasing as much leading to better contact. His line drive rate is up 7% this season, part of the reason why his ground ball rate is down 12%. Has a career 2.4 GB/FB ratio. This season, it's 1.56. Bad things happen on line drives and fly balls.

Maybe he misses Allie LaForce.

A God Damn dead man would understand that if a minor league bus in any city took a real sharp right turn, a Zack McCalister would likely fall out. - Lead Pipe

What is wrong with Chris Perez? Two uneventful appearances. Two perfect innings Friday with only 18 pitches made. A one-two-three 9th inning save on Saturday, throwing only 6(!) pitches, 5 for strikes. Not complaining though.

I've tried 'em all, I really have, and the only church that truly feeds the soul, day in, day out, is the Church of Baseball.~~~Annie Savoy-"Bull Durham"