The Other Guys (Warriors 115, Bucks 110)

As with Tuesday’s game against the lowly Magic, the Warriors had three goals against the NBA-worst Bucks: get a win, stay healthy and build momentum for the post-season. Two out of three ain’t bad. While the win against Orlando was a decisive deconstruction, Thursday’s win against Milwaukee was less than awe-inspiring. Curry, Thompson and Lee carried the load on the offensive end, and Bogut and Green were their usual rugged selves on defense, but the players most likely to benefit from this type of game — the Warriors’ supporting cast — were missing in action. It’s hard to gripe too much with Mark Jackson smartly resting Iguodala and O’Neal, but this still feels like a missed opportunity.

When you look at the Warriors’ playoff wins last season, there’s a common thread running through them. Stephen Curry and Klay Thompson usual had big games, but some other Warriors found ways to change the game. In game 2 against Denver, Barnes went for 24 points and Jack scored 26. In game 3, Barnes and Landry both dropped 19. In game 4, Bogut, Green, Jack and Landry all scored in double figures. And in the clinching game 6, Green was the second leading scorer with 16, Bogut finished with 14 and 21 rebounds, while Jack contributed 13 on 10 trips to the line. In the San Antonio series, the Warriors’ role players met with less success, forcing Curry and Thompson to carry more of the load. When Curry and Thompson seemed to fade late in the series, the Warriors’ fate was sealed.

That’s not to say that a short-handed match-up against the team with the NBA’s worst record is an indicator of how the Warriors will perform in the playoffs. But it’s a timely reminder that, at some point, the Warriors are going to need meaningful offensive contributions from players not named Curry, Thompson and Lee. Good defensive teams — the type the Warriors will face in the playoffs — will find a way to shut down their primary options, forcing the other guys to step up. None did on Thursday night, in the type of game that should be an extended garbage time exercise for the second string. Barnes bottomed out with a scoreless 0-7 night in 27 minutes. Bogut connected early for 8 points but was absent from the offense later in the game. The same can be said for Speights, who saw little run after some early success moving off the ball in the post. Green wasn’t particularly efficient (2-6 for 5 points) and Blake barely left a scoring mark (1-2 in 20 minutes). Only Crawford seemed to find his shot (5-8 for 12 points), but I have no faith in his ability to control or sustain his streaky performances.

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So we’re left with a tribute to just how good Curry, Thompson and Lee can be on offense (a collective 29-48, scoring 82 of the Warriors 115 points) and a warning, given the ultimately narrow margin of victory, that their scoring prowess alone may not be enough. I take solace in the fact that having Iguodala back on defense would have helped slow down the Bucks (48.8% from the field), while O’Neal, still capable of putting up 20 on any given night, would have given the Warriors an added layer of diversity to their offense. Those pieces certainly will help when late April rolls around. But their absence doesn’t excuse the lack of production from the players that were on the court. Inserting Barnes into the starting line-up has done nothing to jump-start his production. His only meaningful production comes from time at the stretch four — a role in which Jackson seems allergic to using him. Bogut produces when the Warriors go to him, but they rarely do outside of the early game structured offense. The scoring output from Speights, Green and Crawford remains wildly unpredictable. Blake is productive when he asserts himself, but — for better or worse — he still seems to defer to his less capable bench compatriots.

The comparison between the Warriors’ performance in this type of game and that of their next opponent — San Antonio — highlights the potential concern. When Popovich decides to rest players against lesser opponents, it’s an opportunity and challenge to the guys one rung down in the depth chart. The understudy is expected to fill the shoes of the star or bring their own special mix of talent to his expanded role in the Spurs system. For the Warriors, the understudies still seem to be tripping over their lines, even in a modest dress rehearsal like this game.

Adam Lauridsen

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Once again your analytical skills boil down to a purely reductive conclusion — “The simple fact is he’s terrible” — where one merely, and conveniently, assumes his/her desired result.

But, as I said, if that floats your bathtub boat, carry on . . . .

thecity2

He is terrible. All signs point to it. You have to be blind or his agent not to see it at this point. Even his agent knows he has an uphill battle selling this guy in the future.

Believewhat

Congrats on Kiwis victory but it does seem like it is not earned.

Son of Ahmed

Speaking of Doug McDermott, if he were 4″ taller he’d be the next Dirk. Their games are similar, though I think Dirk is a better athlete. One thing that makes Dirk so great is that his height and length enable him to get his shot off with little threat of getting blocked. And his fade away, which is deadly, creates all the space he needs. One of the greatest go-to shots in NBA history. McDermott has the same fade away shot, but he is smaller. Will be interesting to see if he can be a prolific scorer at 6-8. Though his game is different, I can see him having a Glenn ‘Big Dog” Robinson NBA career in terms of production. I don’t buy the Larry Bird comparisons (he doesn’t pass as well and is not as tough under the basket), but I can see a little Chris Mullin in his game. Worst case scenario:He could be the next Jimmer Fredette (worse name ever for an NBA player. Parents might as well have named him Opie. Is he really from NY?)

Son of Ahmed

Barnes is not as bad as you make him out to be. Most NBA players take about 4 years to fully develop unless they are upper tier starts. He’s got a nice skill set and will be solid.

The problem is he was overrated last season. I wrote here many times last summer that the Warriors should sell high on Barnes. Not because I didn’t like his game, but because I felt his value was seriously inflated and felt the Warriors could pick up better players to improve the team, esp. if it meant packaging him with a player like Lee.

thewarriorsrule

Mark Jackson is the dumbest coach ever. Any blind man can see that every time Bogut was out in the 4th qtr the bucks got layups. Absolutely terrible. Fire this guy already

sartre

Airbus, I actually think Curry is a good bet for a future HoF spot if he remains healthy enough to have a relatively long nba career. The HoF doesn’t just reward players who win championships. Curry is already touted by contemporaries like LeBron and Durant as likely the greatest pure shooter the game has seen and one different from the Millers and Allens because he does it so often off the dribble. Last season he broke an nba record with his 3-point shooting and I suspect that the records will continue to fall as he is only going to get better as a play-maker with experience. As for getting to the all star game in his 5th year – year 3 was hampered and eventually lost to injury and last season he was identified as the biggest snub. Nellie was good for Curry’s development but the following season it was stalled by Notso’s “tough love” and odd desire to give minutes to a journeyman PG that should have gone to Curry.

sartre

Agree BW, rain-interrupted wins are always controversial. But a team can do no more than put themselves ahead of the opposition using Duckworth-Lewis calculations in the face of threatening weather conditions.

RickP

My take on the Jackson respect issue.
MJ is clearly a master of the emotional side of the game. The body language on the bench is great. All the players buy the system. The chemistry looks like a significant strength.
But, he takes heat for strategic decisions. The hockey subs are a good example. I don’t think they worked a single time prior to Blake’s arrival. So, people ask questions about blended lineups instead of 5 out, 5 new guys in.
If MJ ever explained his reasoning for hockey subs, I missed it. Has he ever explained his reasoning for any strategic choice? Well, maybe “I’m comfortable with the ball in X’s hands”. Has he ever taken responsibility for a poor choice? (Nelson did occasionally. I recall him, more than once, saying a loss was his fault).
Anyway, losing games to mediocre teams, even just a few times, while voicing platitudes, invites criticism.
And, to be fair, if you’re an NBA coach and you lose a single game all season, somebody is going to complain that you’re an idiot.

sartre

Yes, I understand where BW and others are coming from in light of Iguodala’s low average scoring. Perhaps what I should say is that I think Iguodala remains the more rounded player and overall more productive player.

Son of Ahmed

Curry is playing in the golden age of point guards. In any other era he makes the All Star team last year. He should have made it anyway. The kid is a transcendent player. Without him the Warriors are not in the conversation. Period. And he IS the reason this is the best team since Rick Barry wore a Dubs uni.

The guy is on track to nab the 3 point record, and his all around numbers (points, assists, rebounds, and sadly turnovers) are easily going to round out to HoF numbers. But its his unearthly jump shot and ability to get his shot off so quickly and so accurately that will leave his mark in NBA lore. He is already a living legend.

You, sir, are banned from take-off until you retract your statement about Curry.

Son of Ahmed

He doesn’t score a lot, but on the offensive side of the court he makes a lot plays. He’s a great chemistry player.

sartre

He is raw but exactly the kind of player who might reward patience in a couple of years.

sartre

Nothing I wrote denied his having a bad season. In fact, the drop off from his rookie season has been striking. I just don’t buy that he is incapable of improvement.

thecity2

Anybody is capable of improvement. The question is how much, when, and how much are you willing to give up to wait for it? Is it worth the risk? What exactly is the upside you all seem to see in the future?

Are we waiting for the next Paul George or the next Dorell Wright? It’s great to talk about guys improving, but there is a huge opportunity cost to waiting too long.

See Derrick Williams, Thomas Robinson, Evan Turner, and on and on. Sometimes players just don’t pan out, and it’s better to get something for them while you can.

strummer

not without commas i don’t!

sartre

I completely agree, thecity2. I wouldn’t want to be a GM trying to make these kinds of calls and I can only hope that Myers’ past and future decisions with respect to Barnes prove the correct ones. Barnes’ trade value was much higher during the off-season than it is now but given his age and physical tools (some nba media personalities are still high on his potential) I suspect there remains a healthy market for him out there. However, if the Dubs give Barnes another season and he continues to disappoint then his stock will increasingly tumble and the window for value in return will close.

thewarriorsrule

Mark Jackson has destroyed Barnes’ confidence. Get Jackson outta here

sartre

Airbus1 has been recalled by the manufacturer. Apparently Dubs fans are taking out a class action against the creator.

Son of Ahmed

Our of respect to the poor families and friends of those on Flight 370 I will refrain from jokes about missing planes.

sartre

What a nightmare for all involved. Hope they eventually gain a greater measure of closure.

sartre

“I imagine I will go to the game tomorrow and he will say he thinks it’s smart if I sit and I will say I want to play and then he’s going to go to Tim and it will be the same situation,” Ginobili said. “Sometimes you can’t convince him. He’s sure and he sits you. Sometimes there’s a dialogue. We’ll see what happens.” It was the grind-it-out nature of Friday night’s 99-79 victory over the Kings in Sacramento, a grossly misleading margin of victory that belied the competitive nature of a game that required the presence of Duncan, the 37-year-old team captain, for nearly 34 minutes, that likely will require some pleading on the part of the Spurs’ top three scorers if they want to suit up against the Warriors.”

I love Steph Curry, but I do think we need a little perspective.
He’s played in 1 all star game, made the NBA playoffs once (soon to be twice), never led the league in scoring, never led the league in assists.

point guards in the hall who never won a championship
Gary Payton had been to the playoffs 5 times and been in 3 all star games at the same point in his career.

John Stockton led the league in assists twice and steals once.

Not in the hall and never won a championship
Tim Hardaway (not in the hall) 3 all star games. 4 years in playoffs.

Mark Price 2 all star games 5 years in playoffs

compare what he’s accomplished to Kevin Durant, Tim Duncan, or Kobe in their first 5 years

even with contemporaries. Rose has been MVP, Rondo’s won a championship and led the league in assists.

I”m not saying Rose and Rondo (when healthy) are better. I’m just saying when people think the Warriors have 60 win talent or should be in the West finals now, Curry, as their best player, doesn’t have the track record of the very best players in the league in their first 5 years.

jsl165

QED.

sartre

Airbus1, you’re right that Curry has yet to put together a HoF case. But having just turned 26 it is hard to begin comparing him to players whose careers are over.

Airbus01

I agre with that. He’s a very unique talent, a point guard who shoots the 3 better than most any 3 point specialist who can score like a shooting guard while still creating for teammates.
That may do it. I think Pete Maravich is in the Hall of Fame (I’ll have to double check) for similar reasons. His NBA numbers were less extraordinary than most people think, but there was a general recognition that he was capable of special things on the court.

I wasn’t comparing Curry to Hall of FAme or near Hall of Famers over their entire careers. The comparison was between their first 5 years in the league and what they’d done.

This could all change very fast, especially if he delivers a championship or two.

sartre

Celebrating JB. In this brief clip it is nice to see him moved by the gift of being near universally respected and valued by the Dubs fan base:

Any info on the spurs? Are the big 3 playing? Whether they play or not the outcome will be the same. A high scoring 114-103 spurs win.
Pop has the luxury to rest his players because HE HAS CAPABLE BACK UPS. He knows his 2nd and third options at center are better than the warriors Bogus. His bu SG and SF can outplay the warriors any given night. Jackson doesn’t have that privilege. Two of his starters are Dleague type talent and his bench is sketchy.
How will Pop approach this almost certain win?

Will he continually mess with Boguts psyche by forcing him to the FT line and gleefully watch him miss?
Will he fool Jackson into isolation and ditch the fluent ball movement that works so well for the warriors.
Which of his versatile defenders will he introduce to Curry. Leonard, Green, Ballineli,
Joseph, or Mills?
Curry and Lee are good enough to beat any team, except the SAS.

Ronnie Baseball

Trolling is the lowest form of internet behavior.

knick

Says a guy who calls himself Ronnie Baseball.

Ronnie Baseball

Trolling for attention is the highlight of your day.
Sad.

sartre

Rusty Simmons:

San Antonio coach Gregg Popovich said Tim Duncan and Manu Ginobili will sit out tonight’s game vs. the Warriors.

Mark Jackson said the plan is to have Jermaine O’Neal back tonight. He’s been dealing with some leg/hip issues the past two games.

SurfCity

Call it a hunch.
But something tells me Jackson is finishing the season.

SurfCity

SA 16 — non-Curry Warriors 0

Eric Eiserloh

You have to be careful about projecting slow, unathletic guys who may be overwhelmed at their position.

Anybody remember Morrison?

I yi yiyi

Way Too Stupid

Son of Ahmed

Kieth Van Horn also comes to mind.
Turst me, I’m always mindful of the slow, white guy thing.
But this guy’s got a better shot than both of them. It’s the height that bothers me. 6’8″ might be about 2 inches short for his game at the pro level.

I yi yiyi

Spurs close third Q ‘s very well

Son of Ahmed

Airbus,
Curry is the best player on the Warriors since Rick Barry, and that includes Chris Mullin who is in the Hall of Fame.

I reviewed the list of point guards currently in the Hall, and Curry is already better than some of them. Calvin Murphy, for example, is a Hall of Famer and Curry’s career numbers will be vastly superior by the time his career is over barring some kind of tragic injury.

Guys like Stockton are lock to get in so I wouldn’t use him as an example of someone who is not in.

I yi yiyi

Just a joy to watch Andrew Bogut,and making Knick eat crow

Eric Eiserloh

The Spurs are just a much better TEAM. Look at the individual matchups on the floor right now, and you wonder why we are not winning by 10 rather than losing by 10.

Comes down to execution, and taking them taking advantage of every mistake we make

Chris L

I’m at the Big Sur Tap-House right now. No sound. Watching Jim Barnett and Fitzgerald post-game. Don’t know what they’re saying. But have never seen Jim so animated. Desperate to hear what Jim’s saying.

Our Team

So that’s what an elite defense looks like. Players rotate only when they need to, and otherwise stay home, forcing the Warriors to commit too early in the air and then throw the ball to spectators in the first row.

Chris L

That’s what a system looks like—at both ends.

Our Team

I feel like I got it at both ends tonight.

Our Team

I could use some of the drugs David Lee was on tonight.

coltraning

turnovers…end of story. I am sorry, and I know we have a whole bunch of curryphiles, but he played atrociously in handling the ball tonight, as did Lee. 27-13 in points off TOs, end of story. Most of the time Steph shows up, but tonight it was Stephanie. Those lazy lackadaisical passes to no one, unforced…uggh..of course SA is a better team, but between Steph and Lee 11 TOs, almost as much as the whole Spurs team, and WAY too many of them the too cool for school I’m too cool to care casual ones…sorry for the rant, and I am sure many will jump to Curry’s defense (Sartre, waiting on you) but that was simply disgraceful. He needs to wise up on that crap. He is now in his 5th season and needs to know better…normally a big fan, but tonight I wanted to puke at his inattention to taking care of the ball.

good night…

Our Team

Oh, the “you don’t actually watch the games” insult. Very clever of you.

Chris L

No, turnovers aren’t the end of the story. Too reductive. Too dismissive of a more complete diagnosis. Just because you have piles doesn’t mean you might not also have the flu.