Well, turns out I’m not the only one who thinks these gendered products are completely ridiculous; the Buzzfeed post has gone viral, getting nearly half a million hits so far and re-igniting the Twitter hashtag #MasculinitySoFragile.

Here are some of the highlights from the hashtag so far. (Click on the smaller pics to enlarge them.)

But the hashtag has turned out to be more than just an opportunity to post pics of ridiculous products aimed at insecurely masculine men; it’s helped to spawn an interesting discussion about masculinity.

And it’s also spurred on a backlash from antifeminists, who (almost completely missing the point) have been bombarding the hashtag with attacks on “fragile” feminists.

More on all that in a future post or two.

In the meantime, I’ll leave you with this. I have no idea what it has to do with the hashtag but it is AWESOME.

Comments

Kat – omg hair removing cream smells SO disgusting, and you really know about it as most of us insecure teens will use it under our noses! I would rather change a thousand nappies than smell that stuff again .

If Odin can wear a dress to learn women’s magic,
and Thor can impersonate Freya to get his hammer back,
and Loki can give birth as part of a bet,
and the manly manly vikings can respect them,
I think you’re safe using a pink iphone.

The Vikings were actually very concerned with their hygiene. They took baths frequently, and combed and washed their hair daily. They also had various hairstyles, they didn’t just let their hair grow down to where it stopped by itself. And they were fashion-conscious and liked to look good.

If Odin can wear a dress to learn women’s magic,
and Thor can impersonate Freya to get his hammer back,
and Loki can give birth as part of a bet,
and the manly manly vikings can respect them,
I think you’re safe using a pink iphone.

All this talk of toxic masculinity and masculinity being defined as “not feminine” actually remind me of a manga I really like called Otomen.

It’s about a boy, Asuka, whose father left his family when he was young because his father was trans (He says “I’ve always wanted to be a woman!” as he leaves in a flashback), and his mother was scarred by it. She insisted that her son grow up to be a “man among men”, and forbids him from doing anything girly, because she thinks he’ll turn out like his father.

The only problem is, Asuka’s very much into girly things. He loves shojo manga, flowers, pink, teddy bears, all that stuff (and the best part is, he’s not homosexual, so no stereotypes about that!).

Later, he meets a girl, Ryo, who is the daughter of a man who runs a dojo. Her mother died when she was young, and she’s terrible at cooking and cleaning. Asuka quickly falls in love with her, and tries to hide his feminine side from her as he does from everyone else. She eventually finds out, and tells him that she’s okay with it, and he can be himself around her.

There’s also another guy, Juta, who’s their friend who is secretly the author of the Main Character’s favorite shojo manga under the name Jewel Sachihana, who’s studying him to write his characters based off of him and his love interest. On the outside though, he’s a huge womanizer, and he gets a lot of flack from the girls about it.

It’s a good manga. I need to track down the rest of the volumes, I only have one. : I

Ow, that Aussie TP commercial had me wincing just imagining that velcro strip.

And on another subject, Gendertrender is a NASTY transphobic hate site, which makes an elaborate point of getting pretty much everything to do with trans people horribly messed up and wrong. I avoid anyone who posts from it, and routinely block it on Facebook.

This is why it is very important to never break bread with anyone who works in marketing, because they are vile human beings who are actively profiting from making society a less consensual place.

I totally get where you’re coming from and who you’re talking about, because I hate that aspect of it as well. But speaking as a marketing professional… #notallmarketingprofessionals 😉 Like, when I conceptualized and wrote pitch and marketing materials for a startup trying to make the music business fairer and easier for independent artists (so they can actually get paid instead of being screwed around like they are currently), that was marketing that IMO makes the world better.

Marketing isn’t inherently negative. Again, I get who you’re talking about, but I’ve seen too many amazing, genuine people and businesses who are failing because they think marketing is scuzzy and underhanded, and that to market to the audience who needs them they have to lie. Some of us actively work with clients who are trying to make the world better… and they have to brand and advertise and all that stuff too, or else they (and the people who need them) lose.

Tracy | September 24, 2015 at 4:55 pm
Marketing isn’t inherently negative. Again, I get who you’re talking about, but I’ve seen too many amazing, genuine people and businesses who are failing because they think marketing is scuzzy and underhanded, and that to market to the audience who needs them they have to lie.

I see this sort of thing happen in small-scale on tumblr when it comes to artists who are trying to get their work out there.

So many people will accuse them of being “greedy” and “money-grubbing” when they advertise for commissions, or for comics they’re working on, or just in general, and it’s like…how the ever-loving FUCK do these people expect artists to get their work out there and for people to notice them and go ‘hey, I can give this person money for art!’ if the artists don’t fucking advertise the fact they do so?!

Though, this does also have to do with the fact that there are people out there who view art as being a luxury, and people who expect to get work for free or for super cheap because most artists undervalue the hell out of their work.

Agree with Jason42. This is more evidence that the modern feminist movement is more interested in dumping shit over men in any way, shape, or form than achieving equality for women. Hey, you’re a man… do you have any positive feelings about you gender? Yes, you do? FUCK YOU.

You guys realize there are parallel products that are sold to women on the basis of being feminine, right? How would you feel if I made fun of them? I suppose it would make me a misogynist? So how is this not misandry? The hypocrisy is appalling.

@PI: I always thought that artists don’t need to eat. I am speechless.
It is in fact annoying that artists are often criticized for wanting to make a decent living while businesspeople can practice the most voracious greed with little consequence, because that is what we expect of them.

You guys realize there are parallel products that are sold to women on the basis of being feminine, right? How would you feel if I made fun of them?

Go right ahead, asshole, we do it all the time. Which you might have realized, if you knew the first thing about feminism at all. But since you don’t, and you don’t understand the difference between men and all the idiotically hyper-gendered products aimed at them, or the difference between criticism of commercial bullshit and “misandry” (which, pro tip, is not a thing), well, all I can say is…

Someone,
This entire thread is actually full of feminists mocking unnecessarily gendered products targeted towards women. Feminists criticize and mock this all the damn time. If you don’t realize that, you probably don’t know enough about feminism to make any declarations on what the modern feminist movement is like.

As for having positive feeling about your gender, I’m not sure what you mean. If you’re saying being a man isn’t bad, feminists would actually agree with that. If you’re saying being a man is superior to being a woman or something to have pride in, that’s an issue.

George Carlin said it well.

Pride should be reserved for something you achieve or obtain on your own, not something that happens by accident of birth. Being Irish isn’t a skill… it’s a fucking genetic accident. You wouldn’t say I’m proud to be 5’11”; I’m proud to have a pre-disposition for colon cancer.

Things like gender, race, and ethnicity don’t say anything about how kind, ethical, intelligent or wise you are. The only reason one should express pride in belonging to a demographic group is in response to marginalization by a more powerful and privileged group.

Someone | September 24, 2015 at 8:23 pm
This is more evidence that the modern feminist movement is more interested in dumping shit over men in any way, shape, or form than achieving equality for women.

As several someones said in the hashtag: This isn’t about shitting on men, it’s about making fun of silly, fragile masculinity that some men believe will crumble at the slightest brush with anything deemed “feminine”, because someone decided that the best and only definition of “masculinity” should be just “not feminine”, which I’m sure we all can agree is silly.

Masculinity =/= Men as a Whole Monolithic Group.

Also, please read up on feminism before you convince yourself that we’re all out to “dump shit” on men solely for being men. These straw-feminists are getting lame.

Hey, you’re a man… do you have any positive feelings about you gender? Yes, you do? FUCK YOU.

If you felt that us “dumping shit” on silly gendered products that have no business being gendered is somehow equivalent to “dumping shit” on men who are legitimately insecure about themselves (because of other men, might I add), I would like to point out that that’s not the case.

It’s okay to be a man. We don’t hate men (the person who wrote this article is a man, ffs). What isn’t okay is the toxic brand of masculinity that so many men ascribe to that only hurts not only men, but everyone around them too.

It’s not okay to think that violence is a necessary part of who you are. It’s not okay to lash out at other men for not living up to your ideals of “manhood”, and it’s not okay to bottle up everything you’re feeling because seeking help is “weak”. That’s toxic masculinity, and this is what it creates.

This is bullshit, and these products seek to make money off of men’s insecurities about their masculinity, and that’s bullshit too.

You guys realize there are parallel products that are sold to women on the basis of being feminine, right? How would you feel if I made fun of them? I suppose it would make me a misogynist?

I suppose that making fun of silly needlessly gendered items for women would make us all misogynists then, because we think those are silly and worthy of mockery too.

So how is this not misandry? The hypocrisy is appalling.

Aw, someone’s upset! Do you want a Bronut? Would that make you feel better?

You guys realize there are parallel products that are sold to women on the basis of being feminine, right? How would you feel if I made fun of them? I suppose it would make me a misogynist? So how is this not misandry? The hypocrisy is appalling.

Seriously? I guess you’re right. After all, as a woman, I love Bic Cristal For Her Pens. And just look at some of the amazon reviews!

Someone has answered my gentle prayers and FINALLY designed a pen that I can use all month long! I use it when I’m swimming, riding a horse, walking on the beach and doing yoga. It’s comfortable, leak-proof, non-slip and it makes me feel so feminine and pretty! Since I’ve begun using these pens, men have found me more attractive and approchable. It has given me soft skin and manageable hair and it has really given me the self-esteem I needed to start a book club and flirt with the bag-boy at my local market. My drawings of kittens and ponies have improved, and now that I’m writing my last name hyphenated with the Robert Pattinson’s last name, I really believe he may some day marry me! I’m positively giddy. Those smart men in marketing have come up with a pen that my lady parts can really identify with.

These pens fit perfect in my hands, but hubby feels they are unnecessary since he writes all the checks. I’d explain more but I have to go make him a sammich.

Those big, clunky man-pens were getting on my nerves. They were so thick and weighty, I was getting a cramp in my hand every time I wrote my name in big swirls with hearts dotting the I’s and J’s. Thank goodness for Bic, they’ve finally designed a pen that is lightweight and slim enough for my dainty little bird hands! My only problem with the product is that it didn’t include instructions. Remember, Bic, you’re making these for women! Sometimes we need a little more explanation when it comes to technical things!

Thanks for responding courteously to that; I think #NotAllMarketingProfessionals is a valid sentiment here. You seem lovely, and I apologise for my earlier hostility.

I agree that there are a range of different causes that one can use one’s skills for, either good or bad. The campaign you identified does sound like an excellent cause, and as Paradoxy points out, there is a real problem in modern society of people not understanding that artists need to be paid. We as a society have become accustomed to paying $0 for art and thinking that because we can get away with that, it’s a fair price. This is a serious issue and I would love to hear artists and musicians discuss potential solutions to it; inasmuch as they would like a mathematics-brain pointed at it, I’d be happy to give input.

However, when it comes to marketing in general, I think we’re talking at cross purposes. It isn’t that I object to people using their powers for evil instead of for good; it’s that I object to them using those powers at all.

Sadly, we exist in a Nash Equilibrium* world in which any product which isn’t marketed aggressively will disappear, sliding under people’s radar regardless of how good it is. The solution to this isn’t for us to market good causes even harder and hope that the people using their powers for the bad ones don’t correspondingly step up their own game; the solution is to agree that nothing gets marketing money thrown at it at all, and consumers will make whatever decisions make sense to them.

—

* A Nash Equilibrium, in game theory, is an endgame situation in which rounds of choice-making have been iterated until every decision is unchanged. An example of a Nash Equilibrium is a stretch of land where several shepherds graze their flocks, but each shepherd overgrazes it so it suffers and turns to desert. If each cuts back on their grazing then the land would recover, but none trust the others enough to be willing to do this, so the land remains desert. (This is a negative Nash Equilibrium, but positive ones exist as well.)

@EJ (The Other one): I know. Sadly, it’s not all are good. One review of a another model of the “Bic for Her” line shows the sad downside of the pens:

I know it says “for her” on the package but I, like many, assumed it was just a marketing ploy seeking to profit off of archaic gender constructs and the “war of the sexes”. Little did I realize that these pens really are for girls, and ONLY girls. Non-girls risk SERIOUS side effects should they use this product. I lent one to my 13-year-old brother, not thinking anything of it, and woke up the next morning to the sound of whinnying coming from the room across the hall. I got out of bed and went to his room to find that my worst fears had been realized :

MY LITTLE BROTHER IS NOW A UNICORN and it’s all my fault. Sure, you’d think that having a unicorn for a little brother would be great but my parents are FURIOUS – I’ve been grounded for a MONTH!!! They made an appointment for him with our family practitioner, but I’m not sure it’ll do any good, and they told me that if it couldn’t be fixed I’d have to get a job to help pay for his feed and lodging D:

I repeat, boys, DO NOT USE THIS PEN. Unless you want to be a unicorn, and even then be careful because there’s no telling that you’ll suffer the same side effects.

SERIOUSLY BIC IT’S REALLY REALLY IRRESPONSIBLE FOR YOU TO PUT OUT THIS PRODUCT WITHOUT A CLEAR WARNING OF THE RISK IT POSES TO NON-GIRLS. Just saying it’s “For Her” is not enough!!!!

(I’m giving it two stars because even though they got me grounded, the pens still write really nice and bring out my eyes)

Though you could write (giggle) this off as someone using the product improperly, I think it does show the danger of making products pointlessly “for her.” If they’d focused on pens everybody could use, that poor boy wouldn’t be a Unicorn. Maybe he could have turned into a fighter jet, or a tiger riding a bear. You know, something masculine.

Hey David! In your new site update thingie, I could really use an “Edit” button to counteract my stupidity. Anyway, that first part should say: “I know. Sadly, it’s not all good. One review of another…”

@Tessa:
To me this is a clear case of “the boy who cried wolf.” Most gendered products don’t cause unicornosis, therefore the user of this one assumed that his little brother would be safe. If we only gender products in cases where there’s a real safety risk, we’d avoid tragedies like this.

I would be curious to see the prices of these manly products. For example, I did a quick check at Amazon, and a 48 count pack of Dude Wipes is $7. A 64 count of baby wipes is $2 (even less per wipe if buy in larger bulk). That’s a massive mark up in order to wipe in a manly manner.

These manly companies are laughing a manly laugh all the way to the bank.

I think it’s okay that Bic for her turned that boy into a unicorn. It’s best to let the free market sort this out. Now that an Amazon.com review has been published, boys will know to avoid it. Problem solved. Rand Paul for president!

I…I just don’t even know how to engage with someone who seemingly willfully construes critiques of toxic masculinity as attacks on men as a gender.

I just…I mean, anytime the subject’s discussed just about anywhere online, they swarm and spout BS like Someone.

Part of me wants to explain the concept, but a larger part can’t believe that they’re arguing in good faith, that it will amount to patiently drawing something out for a somehow belligerent brick wall.

WWTH – wow, that pink camoflauge AR-15 is something else. I’m trying to think of situations where a person would need to blend into a pink background. Maybe if they were stalking their quarry in a Hello Kitty factory?

“Hello, Arthur.”

“Hullo, James. Thanks for meeting me.”

“My pleasure. Always interesting, working with you. What have you got?”

“Well, I’m afraid this one is a little … out of the ordinary.”

“Oh?”

“… She’s a national.”

“Must be serious.”

“We have reason to believe she’s aiding and abetting a known domestic terrorist. She’s obstructing our ministry’s attempts to handle the situation before the public is alarmed. And when she was in charge of our … quaint little school, well, just look at these pictures.”

“Photographs, Arthur? How modern.”

“Untraceable. One of our scholarship students helped to make them. … I say, this coffee is really rather good. James? James!”

“Sorry, Arthur. A little creased? Just photographs. Where, and when?”

“I’m afraid we don’t know where she is, except when she’s in the office in our ministry. And it’s really rather urgent. Now, we can get you into our ministry. Here’s the plan of the building. Are you all right? You’ve gone kind of stiff.”

“Never mind, Arthur. Should be easy enough to get inside her office. When does she come, and when does she go?”

“We don’t know, it’s like she’s got a direct line into her office without passing through the building.”

@mockingbird
Some of the people who saw the tweets mocking gendered products most likely reacted negatively just to push back against feminists – I do think, though, that some of them believe that mocking the idea that men should behave in a very specific way is to mock being a man itself, while some others probably heard of the tag from a third party, and, without researching further, concluded that the people posting on those tags were mocking men in general.

But, yeah, I think talking to most of them (even the ones who didn’t understand the tag) would be as useful as talking to a brick wall.

I was shopping for fragrance for the Beloved and found one I really liked but could not bring myself to buy because the bottle was in the shape of a very realistic hand grenade. Because guys can’t smell good unless they’re prepared to blow things up, clearly.

I would be curious to see the prices of these manly products. For example, I did a quick check at Amazon, and a 48 count pack of Dude Wipes is $7. A 64 count of baby wipes is $2 (even less per wipe if buy in larger bulk). That’s a massive mark up in order to wipe in a manly manner.

These manly companies are laughing a manly laugh all the way to the bank.

A 5x markup seems about standard for Dude Products. The markup for Lady Products seems to be around 1.5x. But then, Dude Products are more of a bonus way to show how dudely you are, whereas women are expected to use Lady Products all the time.

The mark up on any sort of cosmetic/toiletry products is ridiculous anyway. Just about every bath product is a variation on washing up liquid.

One of my friends loves a skin product called Creme design la Mer. The thing is this stuff is identical to a product used to treat burns, and I’m not using identical rhetorically, I do mean literally. You can buy the burn stuff from pharmaceutical suppliers in 5 litre containers for less than the cost of a tiny pot jar of the branded stuff, but apparently it’s the pot that counts.

This reminded me of when Andrew Sullivan heard the term ‘toxic masculinity’ and went on one of his trademark rants. Apparently he thought it meant that masculinity itself was toxic, and that would simply not stand. It was like an Emily Litella sketch without the “Never mind” at the end.

Thanks for responding courteously to that; I think #NotAllMarketingProfessionals is a valid sentiment here. You seem lovely, and I apologise for my earlier hostility.

Hey, no biggie. Like I said, I totally get where you’re coming from.

However, when it comes to marketing in general, I think we’re talking at cross purposes. It isn’t that I object to people using their powers for evil instead of for good; it’s that I object to them using those powers at all.

Sadly, we exist in a Nash Equilibrium* world in which any product which isn’t marketed aggressively will disappear, sliding under people’s radar regardless of how good it is. The solution to this isn’t for us to market good causes even harder and hope that the people using their powers for the bad ones don’t correspondingly step up their own game; the solution is to agree that nothing gets marketing money thrown at it at all, and consumers will make whatever decisions make sense to them.

First – TIL I learned what a Nash Equilibrium is! Thank you! Not being facetious here, I love learning new things. The commenters here are good for that.

Marketing isn’t a thing that’s going to go away, ever. It just isn’t. For consumers to even make a decision, marketing has to happen. (websites, blogs, social media etc are all part of marketing – so a company having a website to even visit is marketing, as is the search engine optimization they’ve done to help their website rank when people search for what they offer)

And of course it isn’t just products – it’s services, charities, non-profit orgs, etc. It’s also not just large corporations – it’s mom & pop shops, small businesses, independent professionals, bootstrapped startups, theatre companies, artists, etc. I recently worked with a professional speaker who is one of the best, most genuine people I’ve ever met; he makes life better for people wherever he goes. He literally changes people’s lives – I interviewed several former clients of his and was blown away by what they told me about him and what he’d done for them. If he didn’t market himself, the world would be poorer for it IMO.

Anyway, I don’t think the solution is to market good stuff more aggressively, but more honestly. Plenty of smaller companies are understanding that having genuine conversations with their customers/potential customers, actually listening to and caring about those customers, and being transparent about who they are and how they operate is more than enough to stand out from the noise.

I’m lucky enough to work with people who want to do good for the world. Of course, that’s because I market myself to those sorts of people. 🙂 I market my own business in order to attract the type of clients I want to work with, and who share my values (and who want to work with someone with my values and approach). They can compare me and my services to other providers, and then make the decision that makes sense to them.

I do think that’s vastly different from exploiting insecurities to sell ball wipes to men. 😉

At some point marketing is a bit like collecting interest: No matter how much you might hate the concept, it’s an inherent part of capitalist society, and there’s really nothing to be gained from not doing it on principle.

Re: Marketing – I used to hate it, considering it all to be pretty fundamentally unethical. But then I had a manager who was a former marketing guy, and he explained it this way: Unethical marketing is when you try to *convince* people that they need or want your product. Ethical marketing is when you reach out to *find* the people who actually DO need or want your product. In the first instance, only the seller benefits. In the second, everyone wins.

It’s the difference between marketing a price-gouged pink sparkly pen to women, vs. marketing a competitively-priced wider, ergonomically-shaped pen to people who have pain or mobility limitations which make gripping a small pen difficult. Or people who just like comfy pens.

I had to laugh about this.
It’s the marketing execs plot to get families to buy two of a product when they only need one. Simple as that. It’s the same reason they gender toys.
It’s hilarious that men are so scared that using pink soap might make them gay. That hand grenade shower puff is priceless. I want one 🙂

We Hunted the Mammoth tracks and mocks the white male rage underlying the rise of Trump and Trumpism. This blog is NOT a safe space; given the subject matter -- misogyny and hate -- there's really no way it could be.