You could put Kareem in there too but besides the '85 finals it was really Magic who did all the damage. I didn't even bother with Wilt or J-West because half u dumb f**ks didn't start watching the NBA until 2000.

Now you can talk about how it's a different game now and blah blah blah but this whole thread is about who is the number one option on the team when someone wins a title.

Kobe the best? He's not even in the top 5 of Lakers (as number one option with rings before you blow a load all over the screen)

and for those that are counting, MJ = 6 - which no one player will ever catch (unless Lebron gets a legit bigman or Dwight gets some Tim Duncan post moves).

EDIT - Oh yeh, and could he have won it without Kobe? Probably not, but Shaq was at a point in his career when any talented (yes, i think Kobe was and is talented) guard helping out would have won the title, just like MJ could have done it without Pippen if the Bulls picked up another legitimate 2/3 to fill the gap. These side-kicks get elevated by being able to play more free when the best player in the team takes all the defensive focus

Lebron proved this year and Kobe proved last year that being the best player without proper back-up won't get you a ring, but know your f**king history

lol @ this fake a.ss basketball head act..
You could go into Jerry West and Wilt? Who had how many combined titles as a first option? A COMBINED one. You must have forgotten the fact that the Lakers team that won the title had West/Wilt TOGETHER, and Gail Goodrich lead the Lakers in scoring over both of them.
Not to mention Magic was really the first option for maybe one or two titles as a Laker. LOL.. You COULD put Kareem in there too? No s**t.

And really... Name 5 Lakers better than Kobe?

I guess you should include Byron Scott too, since he won a finals MVP, I guess that means he won as a first option then, huh?

Also, probably any "talented" guard could have helped the Lakers come out of the West when it was completely loaded with big men.. I guess all he had to do was give the ball to Shaq, let him put up his 100 points and 50 rebounds and get out of the way, right?

lol @ this fake a.ss basketball head act..
You could go into Jerry West and Wilt? Who had how many combined titles as a first option? A COMBINED one. You must have forgotten the fact that the Lakers team that won the title had West/Wilt TOGETHER, and Gail Goodrich lead the Lakers in scoring over both of them.
Not to mention Magic was really the first option for maybe one or two titles as a Laker. LOL.. You COULD put Kareem in there too? No s**t.

And really... Name 5 Lakers better than Kobe?

I guess you should include Byron Scott too, since he won a finals MVP, I guess that means he won as a first option then, huh?

Also, probably any "talented" guard could have helped the Lakers come out of the West when it was completely loaded with big men.. I guess all he had to do was give the ball to Shaq, let him put up his 100 points and 50 rebounds and get out of the way, right?

i meant to put hakeems first. and i know he didn't do it alone for the first one but you know people on this site like to think one person is the sole reason for a team winning. they act like jordan played with a bunch of kwames browns and he was scoring every basket and defending every player.

lol @ this fake a.ss basketball head act..
You could go into Jerry West and Wilt? Who had how many combined titles as a first option? A COMBINED one. You must have forgotten the fact that the Lakers team that won the title had West/Wilt TOGETHER, and Gail Goodrich lead the Lakers in scoring over both of them.
Not to mention Magic was really the first option for maybe one or two titles as a Laker. LOL.. You COULD put Kareem in there too? No s**t.

And really... Name 5 Lakers better than Kobe?

I guess you should include Byron Scott too, since he won a finals MVP, I guess that means he won as a first option then, huh?

Also, probably any "talented" guard could have helped the Lakers come out of the West when it was completely loaded with big men.. I guess all he had to do was give the ball to Shaq, let him put up his 100 points and 50 rebounds and get out of the way, right?

Your entire logic is f**ked up; not to mention f**king stupid.

read the whole thing retard

i'll help u out in numbered point form, okay?

1) this whole thread is about who was the number one option behind a ring. following me so far?

2) Magic was the number one option for all of his titles. i'm sure through your laker-jocking antics you are aware that he was their ball handler and go-to guy for all 5 of his titles. no, go-to guy/number one option doesn't mean finals MVP award, it means your the best player on your team. which is what the thread is about (see point 1)

3) since the whole thread has been about who was the number 1 option in the quest for a ring (see point 1 again - sorry), I wrote a small list of other Laker players who WERE the number one options when they won a ring. pretty sure it wasn't a list of 5 Laker players better than Kobe, just 5 Laker players who WERE the number one option on a Laker team that won a Laker ring. i'm fully aware you live on black mamba juice, and i hate to be the one to break it to you, but Kobe hasn't done that. he probably will this year. just not yet which is what the thread was about (i know, i know, see point 1)

4) Now for your last point about a West loaded with big men. in no way am i saying Tony Parker is better than Kobe, but he was "talented" enough to be the side-kick guard to Tim Duncan's big man. Like Veron Maxwell was to Hakeem. Like Clyde Drexler was to Hakeem. Like Prince Paul and Ray Ray were to KG. Like Kobe was to Shaq. if you think Kobe was the only player in the NBA "talented" enough to be Shaq's side-kick on those three rings you truely are the biggest f**king Stan on BX, and Quik needs to give you his crown

who's the fake a.ss basketball head now you f**king clown? :greetings10:

Why do people still bring up the cavs? them bumbs got bounced, shulda got swept if bron aint hit that lucky a.ss 3, and maybe wulda won some games if he culda hit some freethrows, its his fault too idk why everyone blaming the whole team but him, yea he was droppin but when it mattered he choked AGAIN ... stop talkin bout them clown they at home watchin the finals on tv

1) this whole thread is about who was the number one option behind a ring. following me so far?

2) Magic was the number one option for all of his titles. i'm sure through your laker-jocking antics you are aware that he was their ball handler and go-to guy for all 5 of his titles. no, go-to guy/number one option doesn't mean finals MVP award, it means your the best player on your team. which is what the thread is about (see point 1)

3) since the whole thread has been about who was the number 1 option in the quest for a ring (see point 1 again - sorry), I wrote a small list of other Laker players who WERE the number one options when they won a ring. pretty sure it wasn't a list of 5 Laker players better than Kobe, just 5 Laker players who WERE the number one option on a Laker team that won a Laker ring. i'm fully aware you live on black mamba juice, and i hate to be the one to break it to you, but Kobe hasn't done that. he probably will this year. just not yet which is what the thread was about (i know, i know, see point 1)

4) Now for your last point about a West loaded with big men. in no way am i saying Tony Parker is better than Kobe, but he was "talented" enough to be the side-kick guard to Tim Duncan's big man. Like Veron Maxwell was to Hakeem. Like Clyde Drexler was to Hakeem. Like Prince Paul and Ray Ray were to KG. Like Kobe was to Shaq. if you think Kobe was the only player in the NBA "talented" enough to be Shaq's side-kick on those three rings you truely are the biggest f**king Stan on BX, and Quik needs to give you his crown

who's the fake a.ss basketball head now you f**king clown? :greetings10:

1) ......

2) No he wasn't. Being the ball handler (aka. point guard) does not mean you are the number 1 option. How was it that Kareem still won MVPs, 1st team all NBA and 1st team all defense after Magic came to the Lakers when he wasn't the best player on his own team? Best player in the league but not the best on his team? I'll say Magic was the best for probably 3 of the 5 titles and still he wasn't the "go to guy" on the team because of the fact that so many different players were scoring and making clutch plays. Magic was still the player who was distributing most of the time when it's all said and done.

3) Now there's suddenly a top 5 list of players who were the number 1 option for a title winning team? What kind of stupid a.ss measure is that? You're f**king retarded by default for even thinking of some stupid s**t like that.

4) When Kobe was the 2nd option to Shaq, he was a legitimate top 5 player in the NBA and probably the best guard in the league by the 2nd title. If you actually watched those series' instead of pretending to be some a*****e who's been watching basketball for long enough to "bother with Wilt or J-West" and then showing yourself to be fundamentally retarded, you would know that Kobe was the main reason they got past teams like Portland, Sacramento & San Antonio when they were the best teams at neutralizing Shaq. And when push comes to shove, guess who they went to when the game was on the line, or when they needed clutch shots? Who WASN'T the liability when it came to late game situations, and who played defense on the best perimeter player on the floor?
So no, not ANY "talented guard" would have won a title with Shaq because apart from maybe T-Mac back then, he was the best guard in the league on both offense and defense.

2) No he wasn't. Being the ball handler (aka. point guard) does not mean you are the number 1 option. How was it that Kareem still won MVPs, 1st team all NBA and 1st team all defense after Magic came to the Lakers when he wasn't the best player on his own team? Best player in the league but not the best on his team? I'll say Magic was the best for probably 3 of the 5 titles and still he wasn't the "go to guy" on the team because of the fact that so many different players were scoring and making clutch plays. Magic was still the player who was distributing most of the time when it's all said and done.

3) Now there's suddenly a top 5 list of players who were the number 1 option for a title winning team? What kind of stupid a.ss measure is that? You're f**king retarded by default for even thinking of some stupid s**t like that.

4) When Kobe was the 2nd option to Shaq, he was a legitimate top 5 player in the NBA and probably the best guard in the league by the 2nd title. If you actually watched those series' instead of pretending to be some a*****e who's been watching basketball for long enough to "bother with Wilt or J-West" and then showing yourself to be fundamentally retarded, you would know that Kobe was the main reason they got past teams like Portland, Sacramento & San Antonio when they were the best teams at neutralizing Shaq. And when push comes to shove, guess who they went to when the game was on the line, or when they needed clutch shots? Who WASN'T the liability when it came to late game situations, and who played defense on the best perimeter player on the floor?
So no, not ANY "talented guard" would have won a title with Shaq because apart from maybe T-Mac back then, he was the best guard in the league on both offense and defense.

Ur ignorant...6 championships, 5 finals mvps, 5 season mvps, 11 time all nba, 9 time defensive first team, defensive player of the year (no guard will ever do this again), rookie of the year, all star mvp 3 times, 2 time olympic gold medalist..averaged damn near 30 his first season...stop being a f*g all your life.. stfu

And what does any of that have to do with my point?

Let me explain it to you, since you're slow...

Basketball doesn't = NBA
NBA Does, however, = Basketball

So if I say "Kobe is the best basketball player ever" you can only argue BASKETBALL against me, and not NBA stats.

The main objective in Basketball is to score more than the other player/team... No matter how you do it, you only win if you have more points when it's over... so with that being said...

Kobe and MJ, on a court, with a ball and a hoop... Kobe is the best at putting the ball in the hoop... therefore Kobe > MJ...

Nope. Only thing MJ and Magic have over Kobe is that they were more Successful. But Magic didn't even have half the talent Kobe does and Kobe is just a notch above Jordan talentwise.

Finally somebody that knows what they’re talking about. I don’t understand why people confuse winning with being a better player. I don’t care if somebody comes in the league and wins 10 rings. If he doesn’t have the overall package then he’s not the best player. Best winner maybe but not the best player.