He made sure Brawn got Merc engines, a bunch of dominoes fell from that moment.It's all coming around now.

Lets think in a very different way.... With a different set of assumptions.

F1 is competitive but only up a point... In reality, they are really one organisation and they rise and fall together. You cant race by yourself... So actually the "teams" are just Departments of "F1 plc".

BE is the boss of the whole thing... Not just the commercial rights. He decides who will be FIA president, whether Adam Parr can work at Williams... But not every single thing is under his control. Sponsors and owners come and go.

Now rethink what happened in 2008/9.

By that time Merc had its offer to take over Macca rejected and the Bahrainis had come on board. Ron had his plan to make road cars. A parting of the ways was inevitable.... Merc was going to pull out of Macca sooner or later.

Then Honda pulls out suddenly ... that wasnt in BE's script. So all of F1 - not just MW and Merc rally round - under BE's leadership to keep Brackley from going the way of Cologne. They also work to make sure that Merc's ambitions of having its own team is realised... so they persuade Merc to give Brackley engines, they also allow Brakley to keep its historic TV money, they let Brakley's dodgy interpretation of the DD rule stand ... Brackley wins the title - Merc's board is persuade to buy the whole thing and Brackley's future is assured for the time being.

IMO this is what went down... and its not hindsight - I started to see it coming as soon as Merc gave Brackley engines and BE released Honda's TV money to Brawn.

In a way Whitmarsh works for F1 plc as much as he works for Macca... he was a very good FOTA chairman - wasnt he? ... Might make a good FIA president or a good senior executive at the commercial rights holder one day, wouldnt he??

To be honest, since Lewis has joined Mercedes, I've been quite optimistic about his chances of being successful there, with the main question-mark being Hamilton's ability to "do a Schumacher" (Ferrari 1996 - 2004) type job. He just seems more of a "drive the wheels off it" kind a guy to me...

However, scrap that. I'm not so optimistic now. Change works best when it is a function of strategic development. All this hiring and firing at Mercedes smacks of a typically chaotic and impatient manufacturer, where the minutes of the last board meeting consisted of "you have one last change to be successful in F1".

I predict its going to be a total cluster***k in the Mercedes garages this season. Haug and Brawn fostered a culture of level-headedness and reasonable expectation. I expect now the disappointments and successes are both going to be met with magnified response in equal measure. God help the team if the new car isn't evidently quick out of the box, or the gun man who botches a stop. And should the new car be half decent, there will be unbelievable weight of expectation.

To be honest, since Lewis has joined Mercedes, I've been quite optimistic about his chances of being successful there, with the main question-mark being Hamilton's ability to "do a Schumacher" (Ferrari 1996 - 2004) type job. He just seems more of a "drive the wheels off it" kind a guy to me...

However, scrap that. I'm not so optimistic now. Change works best when it is a function of strategic development. All this hiring and firing at Mercedes smacks of a typically chaotic and impatient manufacturer, where the minutes of the last board meeting consisted of "you have one last change to be successful in F1".

I predict its going to be a total cluster***k in the Mercedes garages this season. Haug and Brawn fostered a culture of level-headedness and reasonable expectation. I expect now the disappointments and successes are both going to be met with magnified response in equal measure. God help the team if the new car isn't evidently quick out of the box, or the gun man who botches a stop. And should the new car be half decent, there will be unbelievable weight of expectation.

This is going to be amusing to watch.

I disagree with this.

When Hamilton was signed, I was very pessimistic because this team didn't have a driver weakness, at least not in the minds of most, including Mercedes. Mercedes had a car/technical team problem and bringing in a new driver did nothing to correct that.

The changes being implemented now appear to be aimed at the core problem. They may not be successful, but at least they're correctly targetted. While there's potential for these changes to be disruptive, W04 has been penned at this point. None of these changes will impact the base package and it will either be better or worse than W03 at release. These changes may impact how W04 is developed in season, which has been an area of serious defficiency 3 seasons running. It may not "FIX" that either, but lets be honest, the bar has been set rather low.

One thing is clear. Everyone on the team has been put on notice that unless this team starts to bear fruit, no one is safe. People tend to become complancent and believe they're motivated but when these type of shake-ups occur, motivation tends to be redefined.

However, scrap that. I'm not so optimistic now. Change works best when it is a function of strategic development. All this hiring and firing at Mercedes smacks of a typically chaotic and impatient manufacturer, where the minutes of the last board meeting consisted of "you have one last change to be successful in F1".

Excellent point.

This is going to be amusing to watch.

I'm not a Hamilton fan, but I think he is definitely one of the most exciting drivers/personalities in F1 today, so I'm hoping you're wrong.

To be honest, since Lewis has joined Mercedes, I've been quite optimistic about his chances of being successful there, with the main question-mark being Hamilton's ability to "do a Schumacher" (Ferrari 1996 - 2004) type job. He just seems more of a "drive the wheels off it" kind a guy to me...

However, scrap that. I'm not so optimistic now. Change works best when it is a function of strategic development. All this hiring and firing at Mercedes smacks of a typically chaotic and impatient manufacturer, where the minutes of the last board meeting consisted of "you have one last change to be successful in F1".

I predict its going to be a total cluster***k in the Mercedes garages this season. Haug and Brawn fostered a culture of level-headedness and reasonable expectation. I expect now the disappointments and successes are both going to be met with magnified response in equal measure. God help the team if the new car isn't evidently quick out of the box, or the gun man who botches a stop. And should the new car be half decent, there will be unbelievable weight of expectation.

This is going to be amusing to watch.

All remains to be seen, but I do agree that there is a high chance of it falling down like a house of cards given all the new egos involved and what seems a bit like several senior management members (some now shareholders) fighting over control and seeking to install their own people. Can't be doing much for the morale of those already working at Brackley.

You could say though that Mercedes have shown plenty of patience in the past. The long gaps between McLaren's championship success, for example. The 3 years with Bigois and persevering with Schumacher as he tried to regain his old form. On the flip side I always thought their purchase of Brawn was because they thought they were buying success at a bargain price. All those years struggling to win WDcs with McLaren and they throw an engine into the back of a Honda chassis and bingo... instant success. At least that is the impression I get of what was probably the thinking of the board at the time.

I respect where your optimism is coming from. However, I'll stick to my theory that "disruption" will be a greater force than "benefit" in the short term and I think the rather major developments at Mercedes suggest time isn't something the team has a lot of...

I'm not a Hamilton fan, but I think he is definitely one of the most exciting drivers/personalities in F1 today, so I'm hoping you're wrong.

Hamilton will be fine. At worst he'll jump ship when the time comes and I'm sure he'll find another top ride. At best, Mercedes will come out of this in good shape. I'm definitely not hoping one of the best drivers careers stagnates. It was annoying watching Villeneuve in the BAR...

Hamilton will be fine. At worst he'll jump ship when the time comes and I'm sure he'll find another top ride.

That's what I'm hoping.

I think he is being given a great opportunity to learn what it takes to be the undisputed team leader, and what it takes to help develop a grand prix winning car. Hopefully he takes the opportunity presented and makes the most of it.

.... However, I'll stick to my theory that "disruption" will be a greater force than "benefit" in the short term and I think the rather major developments at Mercedes suggest time isn't something the team has a lot of...

I agree with most of that statement. Certainly one would "expect" continuity to be the safer short term bet but given the history (3 seasons of continuity, 3 season of decline) disruption "MAY" produce better results in the long run.

Further- how short is "short term"? If we're talking real short term, like release/pre-season testing, the dispruption may be minimal as it will not impact the design and completion of the car -that's already done.

If short term means, first half of season- yes- I agree disruption could be a problem- car designed under old system, new system in place trying to deal with preexisting design can get messy.

If short term means 2013 as a whole- I think it's less of a concern as the old system was not good at understanding problems quickly, and fixing them in season. Since the old system wasn't great at that (bar set low), the new system doesn't need to be miraculous to improve upon that.

I think he is being given a great opportunity to learn what it takes to be the undisputed team leader, and what it takes to help develop a grand prix winning car. Hopefully he takes the opportunity presented and makes the most of it.

Many of the top drivers, now and in the past, have had periods of their careers where they have had midfield cars (or in Kimi's case, rally cars) even after winning the WDC. Alonso had 2008 and 2009. Button had 2007 and 2008. Webber had the Jaguar and Williams years. At Ferrari, Schumacher had 1996 and 2005. As Rinehart says, that is about the worst that can happen to him and it could be character building too (as I believe it was for the others).

Having said that, I still think it is likely he will win a race or two in 2013.

I respect where your optimism is coming from. However, I'll stick to my theory that "disruption" will be a greater force than "benefit" in the short term and I think the rather major developments at Mercedes suggest time isn't something the team has a lot of...

The question, too, is whether it will all come together into an effective organisation, whether sooner or later. That depends on more than just the quality of the technical people brought in, and is difficult to be sure of in advance.

Why was it a pre-prepared dig? He was posed the question "is it your expectation to try and beat them [Button and Perez]...." and he answered.

Something about the way he totally ballsed up the delivery but continued anyway, didn't sound at all spontaneous. Was also weird the way he said he'd beaten Button and Perez in the same car, before deciding it was only Button he was talking about.

Something about the way he totally ballsed up the delivery but continued anyway, didn't sound at all spontaneous. Was also weird the way he said he'd beaten Button and Perez in the same car, before deciding it was only Button he was talking about.

To be the hesitancy made it sound spontaneous. It was like he was about to say it but didn't want to sound too arrogant.

Something about the way he totally ballsed up the delivery but continued anyway, didn't sound at all spontaneous. Was also weird the way he said he'd beaten Button and Perez in the same car, before deciding it was only Button he was talking about.

Jeez!!! Can't someone fart in peace without others bringing out a stethoscope ???

Hamilton is a threat even driving a shopping trolley, so I would not count him out. He might not win the title but with a decent reliable car I won't be surprised if he's a contender. He can win races for sure.

Guys imagine if Mclaren is really as fast as it looked yesterday and if Button wins the WC easily, Hamilton would probably have big problems sleeping at night and this would be eating him up like crazy. Remember I'm just saying if, Button also said that testing feelt like 2009 but he also said welcome to 2009 baby last year when he won in Melbourne.

Guys imagine if Mclaren is really as fast as it looked yesterday and if Button wins the WC easily, Hamilton would probably have big problems sleeping at night and this would be eating him up like crazy. Remember I'm just saying if, Button also said that testing feelt like 2009 but he also said welcome to 2009 baby last year when he won in Melbourne.

Imo, lewis has already said that he's much happier at mercedes, which is what i feel the most important thing.How fast the cars re and how the championships play out we'll soon find out, but the fact that he's happier is already a plus point

Imo, lewis has already said that he's much happier at mercedes, which is what i feel the most important thing.How fast the cars re and how the championships play out we'll soon find out, but the fact that he's happier is already a plus point

Ofcourse he won't say otherwise. He is one of the fastest drivers, do you think he would still be happy when even a podium is out of a reach ? If Button wins this year's world championship and McLaren will dominate, IMO he would regret his choice a lot, because his objective is to win and not finnishing in midfield.

And even worse, if Mercedes doesn't get results as they want and they decide to leave F1 (like for example BMW did), where Hamilton could go ? IMO Ferrari got Alonso, Red Bull got Vettel (if he doesn't move to Ferrari), in McLaren probably he has closed doors.

Ofcourse he won't say otherwise. He is one of the fastest drivers, do you think he would still be happy when even a podium is out of a reach ? If Button wins this year's world championship and McLaren will dominate, IMO he would regret his choice a lot, because his objective is to win and not finnishing in midfield.

And even worse, if Mercedes doesn't get results as they want and they decide to leave F1 (like for example BMW did), where Hamilton could go ? IMO Ferrari got Alonso, Red Bull got Vettel (if he doesn't move to Ferrari), in McLaren probably he has closed doors.

Ofcourse he wont be happy if button dominates and wins championships easily, but those are alot of ifs in your post. We'll just have to wait and see if he made the right decision.

New challenge........CHECK
Less sponsor engagements.......CHECK
Happier environment........CHECK
Better financial deal.........CHECK
Fast car..............CHE...CK
Paddy Lowe.........CHECK
No Whitmarsh.......CHECK
Manufacturers engine for 2014.....CHECK
Only thing holding them back are the doubts from the past(that haters like to regurgitate)........CHECK

New challenge........CHECKLess sponsor engagements.......CHECKHappier environment........CHECKBetter financial deal.........CHECKFast car..............CHE...CKPaddy Lowe.........CHECKNo Whitmarsh.......CHECKManufacturers engine for 2014.....CHECKOnly thing holding them back are the doubts from the past(that haters like to regurgitate)........CHECK

Very suprised with Mercedes, Lewis did his lap of 1:20.5 on the soft tyre using only the two DRS zones, let's take into account that the tyres this year are a bit faster than last but the DRS kinda rules that out.

His pole lap in the Mclaren was a 1:20.9 i think, so you can say the Mercedes is not slow, don't know if it will be at the front but Lewis hasn't made a mistake it's looking like, Paddy Lowe onboard who will design the 2015 car along with the other top guys they have,
Possibly the best engine from 2014 onwards.

Very suprised with Mercedes, Lewis did his lap of 1:20.5 on the soft tyre using only the two DRS zones, let's take into account that the tyres this year are a bit faster than last but the DRS kinda rules that out.

His pole lap in the Mclaren was a 1:20.9 i think, so you can say the Mercedes is not slow, don't know if it will be at the front but Lewis hasn't made a mistake it's looking like, Paddy Lowe onboard who will design the 2015 car along with the other top guys they have,Possibly the best engine from 2014 onwards.