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The True Archmage (3.5 PrC, PEACH)

The True Archmage

The true archmage sacrifices a great deal of magical power, but in return, the spells he is able to cast become almost second nature to him, and he is able to empower and shape them in ways no mage can!

Prerequisites: To become a true archmage, you must meet the following prerequisites:

Specialized Casting (Ex): At 1st level, a true archmage may select a subschool or a descriptor, such as the (healing) subschool or the [fire] descriptor. He must know at least 3 spells with this subschool or descriptor. If the true archmage is a prepared caster, he may spontaneously convert other prepared spells into any spell he knows or has scribed in his spellbook with the chosen subschool or descriptor, as if he was a druid converting a spell into summon nature's ally. If the true archmage is a spontaneous caster, he instead learns all spells of the chosen subschool or descriptor, up to the highest level he is able to cast, from the sorcerer/wizard spell list if he is arcane, and from the cleric list if he is divine.

Innate Casting (Ex): At 2nd level, a true archmage's spells no longer have any verbal, somatic, material, focus, or divine focus components. He also ignores expensive material components, up to 1000 gp. (If a spell has more expensive components than that, such as the forcecage spell, he must pay the entire component, in this case, 1500 gp)

Master of Metamagic (Ex): At 3rd level, a true archmage is able to apply a single metamagic feat he knows to a spell he casts without increasing the casting time or the spell's level. He may not use this effect with the Heighten Spell feat. A true archmage is able to use this effect 3+his casting ability score modifier times per day.

Limit Break (Ex): At 4th level, spells a true archmage casts that are dependent on caster level no longer have any level caps. (For instance, a wizard 15/true archmage 4 who casts magic missile would create 8 missiles instead of 5, and a wizard 15/true archmage 4 who cast ray of enfeeblement would inflict a Strength penalty of 1d6+7)

Master of Magic (Su): At 5th level, a true archmage is a master of magic. He adds a +5 perfection bonus to the DC of all saving throws for spells he casts that allow a saving throw. Additionally, the true archmage's spellcasting is not disabled inside of an anti-magic field. Any attempts made to dispel or counter the true archmage's spells automatically fail, though the true archmage may still dispel/dismiss his own spells and effects. Any effect the archmage personally produces with magic is irreversible, except by the archmage himself. This prevents spells like remove blindness, remove curse, break enchantment and etc from working, but it does not affect spells that simply affect the new target naturally (like a resurrection spell on a creature the archmage has killed, or a stone to flesh spell on a creature the archmage has petrified)

Finally, the true archmage projects a 20 ft radius aura of magical balance. Everything within the aura, including the true archmage and all of his equipment, are completely immune to the mage's disjunction spell. This is a supernatural ability.

Re: The True Archmage (3.5 PrC, PEACH)

People couldn't go into this class naturally. You could build a character who had already taken this class past its 5th level, which might be worth it for those characters, but anyone looking at taking the first level of this prestige class would fail. 5 levels or your character not progressing at all is so harsh. Even at a extended rate of XP gain. 5 levels is a lot to lag behind, and by the time you hit the 4th one you would wish that your character would die so you could re-roll to be that barbarian that is kicking your arse in everything at the moment.

Re: The True Archmage (3.5 PrC, PEACH)

Why not make it a 5 level class with no casting advancement? You'd have to increase the prerequisites so that you would need to be 15th level instead of 10th to take it, but it might work.

The alternative would be to have the first 5 levels be the ones that give casting advancement, but it makes more sense to just drop them entirely.

Originally Posted by gkathellar

Say you're a crazy person.

Not "some meds and therapy later and you're fine" crazy, not "ha! she so crazy!" crazy, you're mad scientist crazy.

So you go to science school, where you find out that science actually doesn't work like that. Partially because you live in medieval stasis where the closest thing people have to electrical energy is a bunch of guys pushing a wheelbarrow, and partially because science doesn't actually work like that.

Re: The True Archmage (3.5 PrC, PEACH)

Yeah, I think Skelengar has the right idea. Right now, you get 5 levels of pure horribleness followed by 5 levels of breaking everything. I know the dead levels are supposed to be a sacrifice, but you're asking for way too much to make this practical in-game.

If you'd rather keep this a 10-level PRC, I'd alternate between spellcasting-progression and abilities.

As for the features themselves, Specialized Casting seems way too good for prepared casters. If I pick, say Conjuration (Creation), suddenly I can spontaneously cast almost as many different spells as a sorcerer-- and that's just in core.

Originally Posted by Grod_The_Giant

Grod's Law: You cannot and should not balance bad mechanics by making them annoying to use

Re: The True Archmage (3.5 PrC, PEACH)

Originally Posted by Grod_The_Giant

Yeah, I think Skelengar has the right idea. Right now, you get 5 levels of pure horribleness followed by 5 levels of breaking everything. I know the dead levels are supposed to be a sacrifice, but you're asking for way too much to make this practical in-game.

If you'd rather keep this a 10-level PRC, I'd alternate between spellcasting-progression and abilities.

Ninja'd. I already made it a 5 level class with no casting.

As for the features themselves, Specialized Casting seems way too good for prepared casters. If I pick, say Conjuration (Creation), suddenly I can spontaneously cast almost as many different spells as a sorcerer-- and that's just in core.

That doesn't bother me. This class is supposed to justify 5 lost caster levels. In order to get Specialized Casting, you voluntarily sacrifice the ability to cast miracle, wish, and shades by 20th level, two of which let you cast pretty much any spell you want anyway, and the third lets you basically prepare any conjuration (creation) or conjuration (summoning) spell you want.

Re: The True Archmage (3.5 PrC, PEACH)

Personally, I think this mostly makes a great dip. Two levels gives you Silent and Still on every spell and removes limits on effects based on caster level. The third level is a bit more debatable since you're missing out on three levels of spellcasting advancement, but a Wizard or Cleric would still be able to get 9th-level spellcasting... and then be able to apply Maximize, Persist, or Quicken for free seven or more times a day.

Re: The True Archmage (3.5 PrC, PEACH)

Originally Posted by Mando Knight

Personally, I think this mostly makes a great dip. Two levels gives you Silent and Still on every spell and removes limits on effects based on caster level. The third level is a bit more debatable since you're missing out on three levels of spellcasting advancement, but a Wizard or Cleric would still be able to get 9th-level spellcasting... and then be able to apply Maximize, Persist, or Quicken for free seven or more times a day.

True. Since the class is frontloaded now, I should have harsher prerequisites.

Re: The True Archmage (3.5 PrC, PEACH)

Originally Posted by SheepInDisguise

If you wanted to discouarage druids you could add some knowledge (arcana0 requirements. IMO the requirements are harsh enough for a class this good.

I don't want to discourage specific classes, I want to discourage dipping. Harsher prerequisites help, because who wants to spend two of their precious feats just to get into a class they only want to take for 2 levels, especially when they are losing caster levels along with that?

Though I also heavily boosted Master of Magic, so that it was an attractive capstone that might encourage a character to drop his access to 9ths for it.

Re: The True Archmage (3.5 PrC, PEACH)

I quite like it. 8th level spells are already game-breaking enough that it could easily be worth taking, to the right kind of character; 9th level is generally overkill, although it's very fun overkill. But I do feel like Limit Break should be higher than the 1st level ability, because it's really quite impressively powerful. Maybe even swap it with Specialized Casting.

Re: The True Archmage (3.5 PrC, PEACH)

I would swap Scribe Scroll for something else, merely because wizards do get it for free. I think pretty much every caster is going to have a metamagic feat by these kind of levels, so really it's only a 1-feat tax for wizards (who need the power the least).

Re: The True Archmage (3.5 PrC, PEACH)

Originally Posted by Grod_The_Giant

I would swap Scribe Scroll for something else, merely because wizards do get it for free. I think pretty much every caster is going to have a metamagic feat by these kind of levels, so really it's only a 1-feat tax for wizards (who need the power the least).

Re: The True Archmage (3.5 PrC, PEACH)

Originally Posted by Amechra

Wizard 17/True Archmage 3

I hope you like free persistifying!

Yes. It's only slightly less cheesy than getting Free Persistifying back at level 8 when you got Metamagic Effect as an incantatrix, and it's sure to save you money on nightsticks if you're a cleric! (They're so expensive after all)

Re: The True Archmage (3.5 PrC, PEACH)

Originally Posted by NeoSeraphi

Yes. It's only slightly less cheesy than getting Free Persistifying back at level 8 when you got Metamagic Effect as an incantatrix, and it's sure to save you money on nightsticks if you're a cleric! (They're so expensive after all)

Re: The True Archmage (3.5 PrC, PEACH)

This is interesting, to say the least, though I'm not sure I'd take it personally. I was wondering if you could clarify something for me: does limit break increase the damage caps on spells? Like a spell that normally caps at 15d6 damage now has no damage die cap?

Re: The True Archmage (3.5 PrC, PEACH)

Originally Posted by NeoSeraphi

Specialized Casting (Ex): At 1st level, a true archmage may select a subschool or a descriptor, such as the (healing) subschool or the [fire] descriptor. He must know at least 3 spells with this subschool or descriptor. If the true archmage is a prepared caster, he may spontaneously convert other prepared spells into any spell with the chosen subschool or descriptor, as if he was a druid converting a spell into summon nature's ally. If the true archmage is a spontaneous caster, he instead learns one additional spell per spell level with that subschool or descriptor, chosen from the sorcerer/wizard spell list (if he is an arcane caster) or the cleric spell list (if he is a divine caster). These spells are added to his spells known, but he does not gain the ability to cast any spells that are of a higher spell level than he is already able to cast.

Take Specialized Casting ([Evil] descriptor) and the Violate Spell metamagic feat (adds Evil descriptor to a spell and 1/2 the damage is vile damage, +1 level) to spontaneously cast any spell ever from any spell list from any slot 1 level higher. This might be a bit stronger than intended for a 1 level dip. If it was just for spells you already know, it would probably be okay given the feats you need to spend to get in (and compared to just getting Uncanny Forethought).

Re: The True Archmage (3.5 PrC, PEACH)

Originally Posted by Garryl

Take Specialized Casting ([Evil] descriptor) and the Violate Spell metamagic feat (adds Evil descriptor to a spell and 1/2 the damage is vile damage, +1 level) to spontaneously cast any spell ever from any spell list from any slot 1 level higher. This might be a bit stronger than intended for a 1 level dip. If it was just for spells you already know, it would probably be okay given the feats you need to spend to get in (and compared to just getting Uncanny Forethought).

It is just for spells you already know. I was pretty sure that was clear intent, but I'll go ahead and clarify further.

This is interesting, to say the least, though I'm not sure I'd take it personally. I was wondering if you could clarify something for me: does limit break increase the damage caps on spells? Like a spell that normally caps at 15d6 damage now has no damage die cap?

Yes. Limit Break simply removes level caps from all calculations of your spells, whether that be the total rounds that lesser vigor remains active, the total health restored by cure light wounds, or the amount of damage a fireball spell deals.

Re: The True Archmage (3.5 PrC, PEACH)

1. Why do your examples for Limit Break use a character who doesn't have the requisite 4 levels of True Archmage?

2. This is an incredibly powerful class. As things stand, dispel is one of the few things at least attempting to keep casters in line. And using AMF to disable someone's protections is just plain nasty.

Re: The True Archmage (3.5 PrC, PEACH)

Originally Posted by Yitzi

1. Why do your examples for Limit Break use a character who doesn't have the requisite 4 levels of True Archmage?

Left over from when Limit Break was the 1st level ability.

2. This is an incredibly powerful class. As things stand, dispel is one of the few things at least attempting to keep casters in line. And using AMF to disable someone's protections is just plain nasty.

Yes, but you don't get the immunity to dispel and AMFs until level 20. Level 20. All the monsters you fight will more than likely be epic. If you give up access to 9th level spells and go into fighting epic monsters, you need some serious power to make up for it.

Re: The True Archmage (3.5 PrC, PEACH)

The first four levels are just not good enough to justify a 2 feat tax and four lost caster levels at that stage of the game. Coming at it from a spontaneous side, all Specialized casting does is compensate you for spells known you'd get from caster levels. Innate casting is ok, but on its own would probably not be worth a dip with a lost spellcasting level. Master of Metamagic and Limit Break are good, though Limit Break loses a lot because to really capitalize on it you need to spend yet another feat, Practiced Spellcaster. On the other hand the 20th level ability gets you enough that it alone would be worth a dip and two feats and the lost level all its own.

I think as it is, the PRC is just too backloaded. Here are my suggestions:

1) Have the +5 Perfection bonus to DCs at level 5 be changed into an ability you get at level 1 that gives +1 per class level. Think hard about adding in an ability that gives you +1 vs SR per level to compensate for lower CL with it (though see #2, in which case this is less necessary)

2) Give 2/5 spellcasting, with level boosts at 2 and 4. You may want to reshuffle the abilities so that the weaker ones (Innate Casting and debatably Spec Casting) are on the 2/4 levels.

3) Move the immunity to AMFs to Innate Spellcasting, since its the weakest ability currently and could use the buff

4) d6 HD and 3/4 BaB are unnecessary and unthematic, putting it back to d4 and 1/2 gives you some more moral authority to restore a couple of those caster levels

5) As it is Spec Casting is much, much better for a Prepared caster. The real slap in the face is that to choose it a spontaneous caster already needs to have 3 spells with the descriptor, so he ends up needing to have 10 total (and as a limited list caster picking 10 spells with one descriptor is pretty wasteful). If this class is just meant to be more of a Prepared thing that's ok I guess, but it really isn't nearly an equal feature right now, especially considering the power of a Prepared caster choosing [Creation] or something like that.

Re: The True Archmage (3.5 PrC, PEACH)

Originally Posted by DeAnno

I think as it is, the PRC is just too backloaded. Here are my suggestions:

And I think that most spellcasting PrCs are too front-loaded. I don't like PrC dipping and I discourage it heavily whenever I DM. I feel that prestige classes should be taken all the way to 5th/10th level.

4) d6 HD and 3/4 BaB are unnecessary and unthematic, putting it back to d4 and 1/2 gives you some more moral authority to restore a couple of those caster levels

I don't want to give any caster levels. The idea of the thread from the beginning was to make a half caster who got abilities that actually justified the lost caster levels. Then someone gave me the idea to just make it a 5 level class with no casting. And how is it thematically inappropriate to give 3/4 BAB and d6 hit dice when 2 of the 4 core classes that qualify have d8 and 3/4 BAB?

5) As it is Spec Casting is much, much better for a Prepared caster. The real slap in the face is that to choose it a spontaneous caster already needs to have 3 spells with the descriptor, so he ends up needing to have 10 total (and as a limited list caster picking 10 spells with one descriptor is pretty wasteful). If this class is just meant to be more of a Prepared thing that's ok I guess, but it really isn't nearly an equal feature right now, especially considering the power of a Prepared caster choosing [Creation] or something like that.

Well I don't know how I'd buff Specialized Casting for a prepared caster. Do you have a suggestion for that?

Re: The True Archmage (3.5 PrC, PEACH)

Originally Posted by NeoSeraphi

Well I don't know how I'd buff Specialized Casting for a prepared caster. Do you have a suggestion for that?

Well, for a moderate fee the prepared caster can effectively "know" (by scribing into his spellbook) every spell even slightly worth knowing of his chosen descriptor for spontaneous casting at any time. Would it really be that much worse to give the Spontaneous caster knowledge of all spells with the descriptor? A lot of them will be redundant, but after a certain point quantity has a quality all its own.