WILSON: And I am interviewing Abby Gorton on April the 5th for the Peace

Corps Oral History Project. Abby, what is your full name?

GORTON: My full name is Abigail Suzanne Gorton.

WILSON: And where and when were you born?

GORTON: I was born at Fort Benning, Georgia on November 1, 1977.

WILSON: Okay, and can you tell me something about your family and

something about your growing up? Were there things in that growing upthat led to Peace Corps and other kinds of international experiences?

GORTON: When my parents were first married my father was in the army, so

they lived overseas in different places--Korea and Germany. And theyloved to travel. And then growing up we hosted several internationalstudents from the University of Kentucky, and so I think I've alwaysbeen exposed to international things and been curious about othercultures.

WILSON: Where were your, where were the international students from that

GORTON: Well we hosted students from China, India, Spain, Africa, other

places in Europe, from all over. We kept in, we've kept in touch withsome of them and actually two of them still live in the US and one ofthem helped--Shipoe, who is from India helped coach my soccer team whenI was ten. And he still works in Ohio, and so we you know we email andtalk on the phone a lot. And so that's been really phone to have thatconnection and I actually went to India a couple summers ago and itwas like, "Oh! I get it." I understood why you know we had three Indianstudents who didn't necessarily speak the same language and you knowcould only speak English to each other because there were differentdialects. And so that was a lot of fun to see where our international2:00student had come from and understand his culture more and we were ableto have really good conversations after that about India and more indepth. When I was in high school, well in middle school I guess I tookSpanish and then in high school and college, and just have always lovedto travel and studied abroad.

WILSON: Why don't you talk specifically Abby about those international

experiences that you had?

GORTON: When I was a junior, the summer after my junior year of high

school I went to Argentina. My Spanish teacher had a family thatshe was good friends with down there and they liked to host studentsthrough an exchange. So I went for I guess almost three months andlived in Co rdoba. And then when their daughter came up and lived withus for a few months that next year--

WILSON: Oh that's nice.

GORTON: And so it was a fun exchange and really that kind of sparked the

3:00real, "Oh! I like traveling and I definitely want to do this more." AndI enjoyed the language study and I enjoyed meeting the people.

WILSON: So did you get pretty fluent in Spanish at that point or

beginning to sort of?

GORTON: Beginning to, it was a good basis. And more than anything just

the culture and the different way of doing things and the food, youknow just the travel--it was amazing. And we've kept up you know withthat family as well, which has been really nice. And Gabi, who is thesister that I, that came to live with us for a few months is now marriedand living in Connecticut. So you know it's kind of, it's amazing theconnections and it really is a small world. And then when I was incollege I studied for a semester in Chile in Valparaiso and that wasa lot of fun. My school actually went on strike for a couple of weeks4:00so I was able to really travel around the country and also up to Peruand Bolivia. And you know made some great friends and I stayed witha host family again. I stayed, of course, in Argentina and then inChile and that was I think it's really fun to see that, you know to bepart of a family and to see how other people live and you get to learnthe culture much more quickly because you're celebrating the holidaysand you're cooking and you're cleaning and you're laughing and you'remeeting the families and the family's family and that's a lot of fun.

WILSON: What were you studying in Chile?

GORTON: Well, I was a Latin American Studies major in college and

political science. And I took geography, literature--Spanishliterature, and a Spanish class, language class. And then we hadseveral cultural, I went with the International Studies Abroad Program.So there were several organized kind of trips and things like that so--5:00

WILSON: So let's go back and get some dates here. You were in at

University of Kentucky from when to when? When did you graduate then?

GORTON: From 1996, the fall of 1996 to the five year program so until I

graduated in May of 2001. And I was in Chile in the spring of 1999.

WILSON: Okay. So then you graduated with a degree in a Latin American

Studies and political science?

GORTON: And a degree in political science.

WILSON: And a degree in political science, and then what did you do

after college?

GORTON: I decided to move to China and I went, I was originally supposed

to teach at a university in Shandong Province. And for some reason wehad it all set up and then I just kind of never heard again. So I hada friend that was teaching at a private school and decided that might6:00be fun you know because I really wanted to go to China.

WILSON: Why did you want to go to China? After having majored in Latin

American Studies one might have thought you would have gone to--

GORTON: We did have some host students from China so there was that

exposure. And my grandmother went, took a trip to China. When itfirst opened she did a people to people tour like in 1980 I think.

WILSON: Oh really? Wow.

GORTON: And so I think I kind of heard stories about that and it just,

it was just fascinating to me. You know I think the world's a reallyinteresting place and so I went to a little town near Dalian, whichis in Province. And the town where I was called Jinzhou and it wasa small town of 700,000 people, which you know Lexington is quitesmaller. But that was really neat because I was one of--I think therewere seven foreigners that actually lived in the city. And so it7:00was kind of fun. I mean you kind of had to learn some of the basicsfor the language because nobody really spoke English. And the kids,you know the parents it was a private school but parents were reallyconcerned about education. And so they were kind of scraping to sendtheir kids to school to this private school. And I felt like you knowteaching children is so much fun because they just pick it up reallyquickly and you can have a lot of fun and play a lot of games. Andthe public education system is very different than what I was usedto growing up in the United States and learning how to reason and youknow be creative and things like that. And so it was really fun tosee these kids you know we sang in class and we drew in class and weyou know played games that were educational. So they were learningbut they also really enjoyed it, and that was a lot of fun to be ableto expose them to a different kind of learning and a different way of8:00thinking. And I also substitute taught in some of the public schoolsand that was an eye opening experience. But then I, so I stayed inJinzhou for six months and then I moved to a city called Jinan, whichis a little bit further south and it's kind of across from South Koreain Shandong Province. And I taught for a year there. At the same, itwas the same company but they have schools all over China. And I guessin the fall of, well my parents came to visit me in China in the springof 2002 and I was in China for 9/11.

WILSON: I was going to say yes that's where you were.

GORTON: Yeah and that was really interesting because I was also

teaching for a coats thread factory for their business because a lot ofbusinesses want their employees to be able to speak English. And you9:00know some of my students said, "Well, you deserved it," and there wasno sympathy. A lot of people were very you know they were horrifiedand felt bad, but it was really interesting to see really you knowwhat people thought. And actually after I'd been there for a whileand my Chinese improved I would tell cab drivers. I would say, "Oh!I'm Canadian," and I would get to hear the full spiel about Americans.Or, "Oh, I'm American." "Oh, well you're wonderful," and you knowso that's kind of interesting to be able to see what different peoplethought you know because you know I think it's important to know, youknow, to know what's going on in the world and all. So I moved toJinan in the spring of 2002 and then in the fall I went back home fora couple months to apply to graduate school and to see my family andI took the Tran Siberian from Beijing to Moscow for two weeks, whichis really fun and just so amazing. Because it was in September so the10:00tourists, there weren't many tourists; there were some but a lot of thepeople were the people that just take it all the time. They're tradersand the, you know, the business people and the, you know, just kind ofthere were Russians and Chinese and it was really amazing. And I alsowas able to meet people who spoke English and you know kind of hookup with the group to go with the different tourists. But I also gotto see a lot of local people and so that was a lot of fun. And then Icame back to China for another six months and lived in Jinan and that'sactually, it's near Qingdao, which they're going to have the sailingevents for the Olympics in Qingdao. And Qingdao Beer is also the onlybeer that China exports, so that's its claim to fame. And it was,China's such a huge place and there's so much diversity. My brotherand I were able to travel together. He came over for about a month11:00and started in Hong Kong when I came back the second time, started inHong Kong. I had a friend down there and she let us stay with her andshowed us around and then we went up through the a little bit west. Wewere going to Guangzhou, but we heard of this virus that was killingpeople so we thought, "Well let's skip that," and we went to Macau.And later come to find out it was SARS.

WILSON: Yeah right.

GORTON: So we were glad we skipped that and kind of traveled all up

through China and that was a lot of fun to do together. But then Icame back to Lexington.

WILSON: So what more did you learn from being in China off and on really

for two years that you hadn't already learned from your experiences inArgentina and Chile and from all these international students?

GORTON: Well I think the main difference, I mean Chile and Latin America

12:00is fairly similar in a lot of ways to our culture in the United States.

WILSON: Okay.

GORTON: In terms of food and entertainment and you know Latin America is

mostly Catholic so a lot of the religious values are similar. China istotally different. It's you know there is so much diversity. You knowpeople think of, some people I've talked to think of China as beingall the same but it's not. It's you know there are the languages, thedialects, the everything is different, the history and so it's not ashomogenous as people think. And I didn't realize that. I thought, youknow, I knew there were differences but north to south, east to westit's very different. I think I learned a lot about how to be, I mean13:00I made so many mistakes in China. It was just a constant; you know Ilearned how to laugh at everything because many things were oppositeor just completely not something that I would have expected in manysituations. And you just kind of, it was nice to be able to learnto just kind of throw away your assumptions and just go with whateverwas going on and know that you know I mean I think people were good,basically very good and I kind of let down the not my guard but I justwent with things and people took care of me and they showed me thingsthat if I had been really concerned or unwilling to just sort of gowith it that I wouldn't have seen. And I really just found out thatthe hospitality is just amazing and I also think it was interesting14:00to be able to be such a foreigner and not speak the language and notunderstand the culture and I kind of got a better perspective for whatmaybe when people come to this country they might be going through.So I think when I went to school at the Patterson School, you knowwe had international students and it was kind of, you know, I cankind of think well maybe they don't want to come out with everybodyand maybe they, you know, it was easier to sort of relate to peoplein the US that are from another country because you go, "I totallyunderstand that you feel completely confused." And so that I think thatperspective is a nice thing to be able to have now.

WILSON: So you came back and went to the Patterson School? And talk a

little bit about that program and what you did as part of that.

GORTON: I, the Patterson School of Diplomacy and International Commerce

15:00is a professional and academic program, graduate program. And it's ayear and a half, so it's three semesters typically. I was a diplomacymajor and I minored in intelligence actually. And we have professorswho have had experience. One of our professors is a former diplomatand a consul general. And we also have professors who are veryacademic and have done wonderful field work in Africa and all overthe world and so it's a really diverse program. It's about 80 peopleor so at any one time. And in between your first year and your lastsemester everyone is required to do a summer internship. And I did mysummer internship at the US Consulate in Chennai, India, which used tobe called Madras. And I was in the political and economic and publicaffairs section. A lot of people go on vacation in the summer so16:00interns get to really fill in and do more than they probably normallywould if everyone was there. And that was really interesting. I gotto do a lot of work with Dalit rights, which were formally known asuntouchables. And went around with a USAID worker to different localNGOs that were working with AIDS victims and their children, and thatwas really fascinating to see. And I also got to see the diplomaticside of life, so it was kind of an interesting balance. And I workedin the American Citizen Services for a couple weeks because I was justcurious to work in all the sections. And that was interesting to seewhat American citizens, what kinds of issues American citizens come inwith. And I was there for about three and a half months. One of my17:00classmates at the Patterson School her family's from, she's from SriLanka and her parents still live in Colombo, so I went and visited themand then traveled in India a little bit.

WILSON: And then you came back and finished in the Patterson School?

GORTON: Finished Patterson graduated in December of 2004.

WILSON: And then?

GORTON: And then applied for the Peace Corps and in, I think I found

out in February that I would be going to Peace Corps and I left in Julyfor Jordan. Well no I started applying, I found out in May I think. Ican't remember the timeline but so--

WILSON: So Abby after all these other international experiences because

you have had a lot before you went into the Peace Corps, what made youdecide that Peace Corps was something you wanted to do?

GORTON: It's always been something I've wanted to do. I mean I kind

18:00of started to fill out the application when I was at UK several times.But then I thought--

WILSON: As an undergrad?

GORTON: Two years as an undergrad, two years is a long time. Do I

really want to make a two year commitment? Because that's to me thatwas a long time at the time. And so you know when I went to ChinaI made a one year, I did a one year contract. And then you know andthen I decided to stay on but I wanted to go back to school because Iwasn't entirely sure what I wanted to do after college. So I thoughtwell I'll make shorter commitments. Then after I graduated from thePatterson School I thought, "I don't have any responsibility," you knowI don't have a family yet or you know any financial responsibilitiesthat are big and so this is a really good time to do Peace Corpsbecause I can give two years and I can you know so that's fine. I'llonly be 30 when I get out so.

WILSON: So that's okay.

GORTON: So that's okay!

WILSON: What did you think a Peace Corps experience would allow you

19:00to do or would add to your understanding about the world that theseprevious experiences wouldn't? Or what were you hoping it would?

GORTON: In the previous, when I was in China I was teaching for a

private school and so I was earning a decent salary and I was, I hadChinese neighbors but I did hang out with a lot of expatriates. AndI taught with Chinese teachers but we all hung out together with youknow a lot of people spoke English and all you know. There were someopportunities for volunteer services or you know activities but itwas very limited because the government was kind of sensitive aboutletting foreigners into certain places, especially orphanages which isthe main place we tried to go in. And I as a student it's a differentperspective. I've kind of grown up talking to the different Peace20:00Corps volunteers, Angene being one of them. And my parents have alwaysyou know, we've always kind of talked about oh you know Peace Corps isinteresting and neat and oh that person was a Peace Corps volunteer.You know and I've just sort of always been fascinated with it and youknow I think they had recruiters come to campus and I went into someof those programs. And it's an experience that's unlike anything youcould ever make yourself. You know going out on your own I mean it'sreally it's local grassroots making a difference, not giving money andyou know throwing money at something. It's you know meeting people andhaving that one on one contact, which I think is essential. I mean Ithink just even though I wasn't officially doing any volunteer work inChina or India or anything, when you meet people face to face and youget the impression of that country and you give the impression of theUS and you exchange. There's so many exchanges that go on that you21:00don't even realize and they don't even realize. And so I think withPeace Corps it's more a focused way to do that because you are most ofthe time the only American in a village or the only you know foreignerthat someone has ever met and sometimes you might have skills or theymight have skills that you can exchange and it's just, I think it's awonderful program. So I think I could learn a lot.

WILSON: So you knew that it was going to be obviously different from

being in the embassy in India for example?

GORTON: Oh yes.

WILSON: And you wanted that experience? I'm just curious, were there

returnrd Peace Corps volunteers among the 80 students who were atPatterson School when you were there? And or did anybody from the folks22:00who were there when you were going through the program go into PeaceCorps besides you?

GORTON: There was a returned volunteer and she actually, I didn't

realize this, but she was actually in Jordan as a volunteer. Sowhen I found that, after I applied for Peace Corps I went back andtried to talk to her about her experience in Jordan. But she wasevacuated or she left Jordan for some reason and then she went to,after she graduated from Patterson she went down to the Caribbeanand the hurricane hit so she had to be evacuated. So she kind of hadseveral Peace Corps experiences. And there was a guy named Pete atthe consulate in Chennai who was a returned Peace Corps volunteer whowas in Africa. And he was the one Foreign Service officer that sort ofgot outside the US expat community. And like his girlfriend was German23:00and he played rugby with local people. And it was kind of, it wasinteresting thinking about possibly going into Foreign Service myself,it was really neat to see his perspective versus some of the other.And the other foreign services were great, but his perspective wasreally different and he was much more comfortable going outside thatcircle and being you know relating to people and not necessarily juststicking to the events with the high officials and the, you know, kindof the crowd.

WILSON: Right, right.

GORTON: At the consulate so--

WILSON: Yeah it would be interesting and I don't know what the

statistics are now. But of course that was one thing that I thinka lot of people hoped when Peace Corps started was that Peace Corps,returned Peace Corps volunteers would change the Foreign Service andwould change USAID. And I don't know what the percentages are now. I24:00know USAID is heavily returned Peace Corps volunteers. I don't knowwhat the percentages are in the Foreign Service, but for that exactreason. And there certainly have been returned Peace Corps volunteerswho have been, become ambassadors and have gone you know all the wayup the ranks. So that's an interesting point. Okay, let's talk just alittle bit about what last year when you were trying to join the PeaceCorps, what was the process of joining? Because that's changed over theyears--

GORTON: Right, I filled out an online application and then I spoke to

the recruiter. I think we had a phone interview and then he actuallycame to Lexington and had an in-person interview and then a follow-upphone interview again. And then in between that time I had severalforms to fill out. And then with the medical clearance and the25:00background investigation and that was it. So it was--

WILSON: And were you offered a choice of countries and did you ask for a

particular country?

GORTON: We were allowed to choose like kind of our top three regions

and then specify which countries we wanted in those. And I, Jordan wasactually my first choice. And I found out in talking to several othervolunteers that a lot of people don't, I mean they don't necessarilyassign you--You know it's kind of what they need and what your skillsmatch up with and so it's kind of, it's not random but it's kind ofthe overall picture taken into consideration not just what you choose.And I think China was my second choice, and then I can't remember if Iput a third choice down. I kind of had in my mind that I wanted to goto Jordan but because I'd never been in that region and I didn't knowmuch about the middle east, but I kind of more than anything wanted to26:00do Peace Corps. I mean that was kind of my first commitment becauseI think if you go in, I mean if I'd gone into Peace Corps. I mean Icould have gone to Jordan in other ways. I mean there's study abroadprograms and there are, you know I could have gotten a job outside ofPeace Corps with Jordan. So I wasn't dead set on Jordan I guess, but Ijust happened that I did get my first choice.

sessions, not much culture but more Peace Corps culture than anythingelse. And then kind of an all day meeting, workshops, some gettingto know you kind of things and just preparation for travel, gettingour passports and all that kind of stuff and last minute details. Wehad some free time so we were able to kind of explore this city andyou know hang out in D.C. for a little bit too. And then we left forJordan and we arrived at 2:00am at the Amman Airport and drove for anhour and a half to Irbid, which is where our training took place and--

WILSON: Okay, so what was the assignment? Was this group composed of

28:00people who were all supposed to be doing sort of the same kind of thing?

GORTON: Well there are three programs in Jordan. There's special

education, English teaching--ESL, and then youth and communitydevelopment. And our group was a mixture of all of those things. Itwas mostly TEFL people, Teaching English as a Foreign Language and thenmaybe there were six special education volunteers and a few youth andcommunity development volunteers. So it was a mix but the majoritywere teaching English as a foreign language.

WILSON: And how many volunteers were already in Jordan?

GORTON: There were 20 some volunteers. They had re-entered --when the

ambassador was assassinated Peace Corps pulled out of Jordan --and29:00so they had kind of slowly been reintroducing volunteers to Jordan.We were the J9 class so we were the 9th group of volunteers to cometo Jordan.

WILSON: So when did Peace Corps open Jordan?

GORTON: 1990--

WILSON: Okay so there weren't--

GORTON: It hasn't been there very long.

WILSON: There weren't volunteers in Jordan before that.

GORTON: Right, so it's not a--

WILSON: And then they reintroduced them after 9/11?

GORTON: Right, that's correct. And so we were the third group to come

back after they reintroduced people, the volunteers.

WILSON: Okay, alright. So you arrived in your host country and went

to training?

GORTON: To training, and they got us up bright and early at 8:00

that morning, which is good to get over jetlag and we did just some30:00introductory sessions. And we stayed in Irbid for about a week andthen we were assigned to training villages. And there were five orsix volunteers in each village around Irbid. And so and we each hada language and cultural facilitator, an LCF who was Jordanian and whospoke English really well but also and was also really well educatedabout customs in the villages. And so we stayed in host families inour villages. And each volunteer had their own host family but therewere five of us in each village, or five or six of us in each village.So we would come together with our LCF and have language classes andcultural classes and then spend like evenings visiting other people inthe village or with our host families.

host families most of that time. I think there were probably abouttwo weeks that we weren't with our host families throughout, not allat once.

WILSON: Okay, what would a typical day have been like during training?

GORTON: We had class from, language, we had Arabic language class from

7:30 or 8:00 depending on, it was pretty flexible up to our LCF andto our group until noon. And then went home for lunch to our hostfamily and then came back for class from like 4:00 to 8:00. Andsometimes it was both sessions were language class and sometimes it waslanguage class and then cultural courses. And our LCF, each group hada different training experience. My group, which was just wonderful,32:00we had a really good LCF and he made sure that we visited like eachnight of the week we would go to one person's host family's house. Andthe host families were really different. There was one, Andy and Mikewere two of the volunteers and they lived with an older couple becauseit was difficult to place young men in families that had daughtersor wives. So they lived with an older couple and we would go, he wasabout 95 I think and she was 75 or 80. And so we would go there andwe would visit with them and they had grandkids that would come inand you know the sons and daughters would visit. And then there was,Cassie lived in a, she was another volunteer and she lived with a hostfamily that they had formerly been involved with oil somehow and sothey were very wealthy and they lived in this huge house on the otherside of the village. And so we got that experience, you know. Wedidn't sit on the floor and on the mats, which are called farscha. Wewere sitting in chairs and it was very formal things like that. So33:00and then we had you know my family was kind of out farther away fromthe others and my host father was a retired military, retired soldier.And they you know had several fruit trees and raised cattle, well theyhad two cows. And then my host mother didn't work outside the home.And then another host family, Amy's host family, had a car and theylived. You know, they had some farms, a farm and her father was aformer intelligence guy of some sort and he spoke English pretty wellactually. And Cassie's family had some people that spoke English, butAndy and Mike and I--our families didn't speak any English at all. Andso that was really fascinating. My host family had five children--two34:00boys and three girls. And so that was a lot of fun to get to see themon their first days of school and you know help them with their Englishhomework. And so we did our language classes and cultural classesfor the first month and then we had a practicum where we taught. Weactually went and taught kind of a summer camp, an unofficial summercamp where we just taught English in the school in our trainingvillage. And the three female volunteers taught, co-taught the classesbecause it was, I think it was only four hours a day. And then and Amyhad experience teaching in China as well and Cassie had never taughtbefore and I had taught before, so we kind of traded out and we wereobserved by some Peace Corps staff. And then the boys taught in aseparate village at the boys' school.

WILSON: So there was some training of, there was some teacher training

GORTON: Some teacher training yes. And then one day a week actually we

went into Irbid, which is the main--the big city.

WILSON: Meaning how big?

GORTON: Meaning maybe half a million people.

WILSON: Okay.

GORTON: I mean Jordan's population is like four million people total,

so it's four or five so it's small. And there we did, we broke up intoour different groups, the special education, the youth and communitydevelopment and TEFL teachers. And so we did get teacher trainingthere and we did some group cultural training classes and healtheducation classes and security. Security was a big deal over thereand so and then after our practicum we did do a site visit. We took aweekend and went to the village where we were supposed to, going to beplaced permanently. And then we came back and had I think another week36:00with our host families and then were sworn in on September 15.

WILSON: Okay, let's talk a little bit more specifically about aspects of

the training. What was how was it to learn Arabic?

GORTON: It was really fun. The way Peace Corps kind of teaches you

what you need to know right away. I mean we did numbers and well no wedid greetings and food and health issues and then numbers. And my--Wewere kind of I don't know exactly how they grouped us, but they kind ofobserved us in trial classes, Arabic classes with different teachers,and so they kind of paired up the learners that learned in similar wayswith an LCF that would, that they saw kind of agreed with the style ofthe learning. So there was some thought you know put into the groupsbut I don't know how much exactly. They didn't tell us. And so we,I mean we started--Our group wanted to learn to write even though we37:00weren't really supposed to, we copied down things as we were goingthrough and while we were learning you know the basics and we didn'treally understand what we were doing, but it was fun to copy. AndArabic is actually much easier than Chinese. I did not--I can speaktaxi-cab Chinese but I did not learn to read or write because there'sno alphabet for one thing. But we did learn the alphabet and we learnedsome of the basics in grammar. And of course we got a lot of practicewith our host families. I mean it was kind of fun because even thoughI wasn't really speaking Arabic my host mother and I really connectedand she would know what I wanted before I knew what I wanted in manycases because they were kind of in tune with this strange American thatwas you know in their house. And that was kind of fun to communicate.You know you don't need language necessarily to communicate and so--

GORTON: And so you know you can once you can identify the characters you

can sound things out and you know make sense of things.

WILSON: And what did they focus on in cultural training?

GORTON: Well a lot of it was sort of the visiting. Visiting is just a

huge part of the Arabic culture and we you know most of our culturaltraining came from visiting families and learning how to eat. Whatyou know like showing the balls of your feet to someone is very rudeso you know little things like that; you know, not turning your back tosomeone if you're sitting down, what to say. I mean there's you knowif someone says hello the response is different than you know what doyou say for certain occasions and visiting and greetings. That was39:00really important and also--

WILSON: And as a woman you would not shake hands with a man in Jordan?

Is that correct?

GORTON: Usually not, usually you put your hand on the center of your

chest and you just and the man does the same thing. And it was reallyinteresting because there were some people that you know we, thewomen in my village we just took cues from the people. You just takecues from the people you meet and there were some men who just said,"Hi! How are you?" you know and shook your hand. And some people hadtraveled outside of Jordan.

WILSON: And were comfortable doing that.

GORTON: And were comfortable doing that, but you just kind of you know

kind of saw what other people did. And also learning how to, likethere were several small conflicts with like host families or you knowkids in the village throwing rocks at us or things like that that wereally looked to our LCF. Because I mean if these things happened inour village we would need to know how to appropriately respond. Andso you know the, it's really complicated the chain of you know if --Amy40:00and I for example were walking to school one day and there were thesetwo probably early 20s guys walking behind us and they started yellingreally obscene things at us in English. And so instead of reacting tothat we called our LCF and we told him because since he's a man he cancome defend us. And there was another incident I mean just several,it's not --saving face is very important and so direct confrontationis not acceptable. And so we kind of learned you know and like whenthe neighborhood kids would come in and start getting rowdy in ourclassroom or you know interrupting us and things you know Ahmed wouldsay, "Come in!" He was our LCF; he would say, "Come on in!" and insteadof yelling at them to go away he would invite them in and they wouldgo ohhh and they would run away. So it's things like when someonesays something do they really mean it, are they being polite, do you41:00accept it or do you say, "Oh you know thank you but I can't." And it'svery subtle and very situational and we kind of learned how to read thedifferent, you know, the body language and learn the spoken language aswell. And as you know as women we learned how to sit on the bus. Menand women are not allowed to sit on the bus together and so, there'skind of a shuffle, a little dance that goes on when if there are seatsthat are you know if a man has a single seat and there are two emptyseats here. Then a woman gets on the bus so the man will stand up andthe woman will you know switch and it's a little bit complicated sowe kind of learned that sort of thing and how to buy products. Therewasn't much bargaining but you know when it was appropriate to bargainwe learned how.

WILSON: You said earlier that security was really important and I know

that that's changing in Peace Corps. What kind of security training42:00did you have?

GORTON: We, well the Peace Corps has a head of security, a guy who came

in and did briefings with us. We learned--

WILSON: Yeah every country now has a security officer, correct?

GORTON: Yes. And we learned how to respond to local issues. I mean

like when we had rocks thrown at us or you know things like that whoto call, what to do, what not to do. The phrases that are appropriatefor, especially for women you know. If a man --a lot of times asAmericans and we're not covered, our heads aren't covered, and eventhough our clothing I mean every day I wore shirts down to my wristsand past my wrists, pants past my ankles and still as an American, awomen without a hijab on, you know people would say or do things that43:00were inappropriate. So we learned the appropriate responses like youknow leave me alone or don't you have sisters or you know things likethat that were important to say. And then also you know how to varyour routines, what to talk about and what not to talk about.

WILSON: Like what could you talk about and not talk about?

GORTON: Well, like volunteer locations, other volunteer locations. We

would never want to reveal that to someone who was not--You know Iwould never say oh my friend Cassie's down in this village; she's upon a mountain by herself as an American, you know. And so I guess alsowe had emergency action plans and different you know stages of you knowlike stand fast if like when the Amman bombings happened we were instand fast. And so we stayed in our villages and we were to you knowmaintain our normal routine but just don't go outside your village.And you know we had consolidation points where if something were44:00to happen that we couldn't stay in our villages we would go to thatparticular point and stay there for however long and things like that.We were advised to you know we had several warnings like from theembassy and like the you know don't go to this area of Amman or don'tgo to this place or avoid you know public places and things like thatat various, according to what security risks were like for terrorismand things like that.

WILSON: So you all had cell phones?

GORTON: We did. We weren't officially required to have them but if

you didn't have one it was very difficult to get information from yourwarden or from you know--

WILSON: Who's your warden?

GORTON: A warden--each area of the country had a volunteer who was kind

of in charge of informing the other volunteers in that area about anymessages that needed to be communicated. And so and also it was nice45:00to be able to text other volunteers, text message other volunteersbecause you're kind of by yourself you know out in the middle ofnowhere. And also for emergencies, a lot of times like if I was on abus or walking or something and I didn't, I felt like I was going toget unwanted attention I would just pretend to talk on my cell phone.So it was nice to even just to have that or if I was in--We didn't,we weren't really supposed to take taxis very often because they wereexpensive and because it was unsafe and because it would ruin ourreputations if we showed up in a village, in our village with a taxibecause it would be kind of scandalous because who were you with, whatwere you doing, that kind of thing. But in the taxi it would be niceto, I would always call and either stay on the phone with somebody orpretend like I was talking on the phone with somebody or say I'm ina taxi and I should be home at this time, so if you don't hear from46:00me you know that kind of thing. So it was really convenient to havea cell phone and everybody got one eventually I believe. Some of ussaid, "Oh! We're going to hold out and not get them." And by the middleof training I mean I got one in the middle of training and I thinkeverybody pretty much broke down and got one.

WILSON: But Peace Corps didn't provide those? You were getting those out

of your allowance?

GORTON: No, right.

WILSON: You talked about the bombing in Amman. What happened then? You

were told just to stay in your village and that was the safest place tobe anyway?

GORTON: Yeah, and I actually--

WILSON: And was there a fallout from that?

GORTON: No.

WILSON: No.

GORTON: It was I mean we all--I talked to a lot of the volunteers and we

all felt really safe in our villages so we, I mean we were far enoughaway. I was far enough away from Amman that I didn't go in very oftenanyway and so it really didn't affect, I mean I watched it on the news47:00with my neighbors but and actually my neighbors across the street werereally sweet and the father of the family said, "Do you want to comestay with us?" You know it was the night after the bombing and whydon't you stay at our house tonight, that will make you feel safer andyou won't be alone in your house. So that was nice and I did spendthe night over there, but there wasn't much. A lot of the youth inour village went and protested, did peaceful protests in Amman afterthe bombing. But there wasn't a lot of fallout and their securityis really tight in Jordan in general. There are lots of checkpoints;there was a checkpoint to get to my village so I went through thatevery day. And so I think I mean it was just, it was mostly in Ammanand it affected the volunteers near Amman.

WILSON: Thinking about technology since you are a very recently returned

48:00volunteer and I have just seen some of your pictures, did everybodyalso have a computer with them?

GORTON: Most volunteers brought a computer or ordered it once they got

there. And it was, I didn't have internet access and most volunteersdon't have internet access. But it was really convenient for watchingDVDs and for you know taking pictures you know and loading pictures onthe computer and then I also typed a lot of emails, long emails at homebecause I had to pay for internet time and it wasn't always available.And so I would put them on my flash memory disk, card, stick.

WILSON: And then take it.

GORTON: And then take it to the internet cafe and just plug it in, and

then I could spend my time reading emails and just have my group sortof update or update to my parents ready to go and just send it andmaybe change it a little bit. But so that was really nice to have.49:00And I mean we weren't you know--

WILSON: And how often would you get to an internet cafe?

GORTON: I went in once a week.

WILSON: Once a week? Okay, to?

GORTON: And I went to Irbid. I was about an hour, well about an hour or

more depending upon the bus system from Irbid. So that was convenientand there was a volunteer in Irbid so she and I could meet up sometimestoo, which was nice. But internet access, the University Streetis what it's called in Irbid and it's in the Guinness Book of WorldRecords as having the most internet cafes on one street.

WILSON: Oh my goodness.

GORTON: So we had, there were plenty of options for internet, which

was nice.

WILSON: And how much would internet cost?

GORTON: About $.35 for half an hour. So it wasn't too expensive at all.

WILSON: And at this point you are getting how much as a living allowance?

GORTON: We received 145 Jordanian dinar each month and that's about,

50:00it's almost, it's about $200, $220 I think a month. And it was, Inever really ran out of money. I mean because well I wasn't allowed toshop in my village because I was a woman, a single woman. So I had togo to Irbid to buy things, so I didn't really buy things that much. SoI ended up having more disposable income than I thought I would.

WILSON: Because that is how many, how much American money?

GORTON: About $220.

WILSON: About $220, okay alright yeah you said that.

GORTON: Which and I didn't I mean--

WILSON: You had to pay for your housing or your housing was provided as

part of the?

GORTON: Well we got an allowance for our housing too. My rent was 55

JD a month, which is $75 I think. So we got that on top of our livingallowance. And then we got, we also got a travel allowance of like $2651:00a month, US dollars a month. I think it was 26 that we could you knowin case we were traveling or whatever.

WILSON: And in Jordan you were allowed to leave the country? You were

allowed to travel?

GORTON: Yes if we had, well there were certain restrictions. Like we,

you know we couldn't leave our village for the first month and thenwe could leave our village once a month for two nights. There wasvacation but we weren't allowed to use vacation for the first threemonths. So and to travel outside the country you had to get permissionfrom the country director. So it was very controlled, I mean it wasvery controlled but we were allowed to leave.

WILSON: And as part of security as well, they want to always know where

know very--I felt very, when I arrived in my village I felt like Icould comfortably visit people that I had never seen before or metbefore and not totally screw up. You know I mean the big differencebetween China and Jordan for me was that in China if you mess up you'rea dumb foreigner and you laugh it off and it's not a big deal. Butin Jordan if you mess up it can affect your reputation and thereforeyour effectiveness as a volunteer and your safety. And so it wasmore important to get things right because otherwise you know thatfirst impression you know not that people weren't--People had a greatsense of humor as well but since the dynamic between men and women isdifferent you know if a man interpreted something you did. You know ifI accidentally spoke to the wrong person or made eye contact in a waythat was wrong that could lead to you know somebody might think oh well53:00she's an American and I can try this with her because she's you knowshe's not Jordanian. Which I mean I had very--For example, in my hostfamily I one morning I was, my host mother had to take the youngestson to the dentist. And so all the kids were gone to school and myhost parents left and so I had the house to myself. So I thought,"Oh! I'm going to eat my breakfast in front of the television," becauseI never really I mean I never really watched TV and certainly neverwatched English programming, not that there was much on. But it wasjust nice to be in the house alone. And I didn't realize that thehost father hadn't gone to the dentist and he came in through the backdoor. And normally I mean I just don't, there are things that youjust don't think of being raised in the US and you know lessons that54:00I learned very well. And he came in and he sat in the room with meand what I should have done is immediately get up and leave, but I wasalmost finished with my breakfast and I thought well I'll just finishmy breakfast and then I'll go. And okay two minutes in the room withthis guy is not going to be, I mean he's my host father. He's myhost father. And so I was finishing my breakfast and he reached overand started petting my hair, which is extremely--I mean it's hard todescribe the--Because the segregation is so complete and very clearthat was a major, major violation of disrespectful to me, disrespectingthe culture, you know very bad thing for him to do.

WILSON: And you knew that.

GORTON: And I immediately and I was like oh my gosh, and I immediately

you know like put my stuff in the kitchen and was going and he kept55:00following me around and came into my room and just was inappropriate.And I was like trying to get because I was on my way to school andso I shut my door, locked it, and left. And I you know showed up atmy because the other volunteer Amy and I, her house was on the way toschool so I walked over there and I was pretty upset. And I was kindof like you know--

WILSON: This is how long have you been there?

GORTON: I'm not sure, about three weeks maybe but so not very long. And

you know I got to school and I was so upset and I you know I told myLCF and he was really good and called the security guy or the guy incharge of home stays and he was out there that morning talking to myhost father. And they told me they said you know don't tell anybodybecause that would ruin that family in this whole village and thatwould just be awful.

WILSON: Sure, yeah.

GORTON: So the guy, the Rifat is his name, talked to my host father and

that was very you know cleared up pretty quick that he was not to dothat. And so you know I went back and everything was fine and you know56:00nobody in the family knew and--

WILSON: And you stayed with that family the whole time?

GORTON: I stayed with that family.

WILSON: Wow.

GORTON: Because it was, I mean I had really bonded with the mom at that

point and I knew that the father had been talked to. And I wasn'treally comfortable but Peace Corps was like, "Well we'll move you ifyou really want us to." But that's going to look bad for that family,they're going to lose the income, and I didn't want to. I mean theywere nice kids and it was two months. My door locked so you know.

WILSON: And he never tried anything again?

GORTON: No but yeah but so it was fine. But you know it was just one

of those things that you kind of you had to weigh the good and the badand he was creepy and I could just kind of put up with it so it wasfine. But when I talked to my language, my LCF was really good becauseI said what you know okay something broke down there because that's, I57:00felt like that was something that I should be able to stop and he said,"Well you should have just left the room immediately. As soon as hewalked in the room you shouldn't have even let him sit down by the timeyou were out of there." And I you know my sense was, "But I was therefirst and I was eating my breakfast and I was watching TV!" But you're awoman, he's a man, and its his house. I mean but even if it wasn't hishouse, I still should have left immediately. That was a good lesson.You know I mean I learned several things like that in training, littlethings that I wouldn't have been aware of to even do otherwise.

WILSON: What was that? What other illustrations are there in training

and your experience that have to do with male/female relations? And wasthat really, I mean I would guess it would be--

GORTON: How long do you have?

WILSON: Yeah, well I would guess that would be the toughest part of

being in Jordan.

GORTON: Yeah, that was probably the main sort of cultural issue that

we all had to kind of get our minds around. And the men too, I meanthe guys, it was really interesting and dynamic because the women got58:00invited to people's homes and to you know visit their children. We gotinvitations to tons of things within the home. We weren't allowed togo out you know I mean to go outside.

WILSON: As individual women or with men or whatever.

GORTON: Right, but the guys you know they always got taken out with

the men but they were not often invited into homes because the malemembers of the household didn't want their daughters and wives exposedto strange men. And that's unfamiliar you know strangers, and that'seven for Jordanians. I mean that wasn't because we were Americansthat's just the cultural dynamic. Like there was when my I'm trying tothink who was--When the--When one of the Peace Corps, well when my LCF59:00would come to my host family's house like he was not allowed to see myhost sisters. I mean he did towards the end because they got to knowhim a little bit more and so they would be, you know they would comeout on the porch and give us tea and then go back in. But they werealways covered and that was okay. But like I would if the men wouldbe meeting in the front part in the men's visiting room and like my LCFwas there I would be allowed to go in and be in a room full of just menbecause I was American. And it would be different you know they were--

WILSON: You're an honorary male.

GORTON: "Come talk politics with us, come--" yeah exactly. But at the

same time it wasn't I mean it was so confusing because it was like wellyou can do this and this and this but don't do that. And if you--Youknow it was just a different system whereas you know when my fellowvolunteers came over, the male volunteers, because we would all visit60:00together as a group we would visit my host family.

WILSON: This is in training?

GORTON: In training.

WILSON: Right.

GORTON: So we would be on the porch and if the male volunteers were

there the girls were inside. I mean that was, the mom was--My hostmother would come out but the girls were generally inside exceptfor the younger, you know the much younger ones. And that was aninteresting dynamic, just different you know the sitting on the bus.In my village, in permanent village Makraba it was really fascinatingbecause like my friend Hollah and her family they lived across thestreet from me. And I spent practically every evening there and that'swho I spent the night with when the bombings happened. And so I wasclose to that family and I was able to see every, I mean I talkedwith the twins who were 16 year old guys and the oldest son was 20.And you know I was very much like a sister to them, but in public we61:00didn't acknowledge each other. I mean towards--After a while you knowI would say, "As salaam alaikum," you know I would kind of greet themunder my breath and they would do the same to me but it was never a,"Hey! How you doing?" kind of greeting, and her father too would neveracknowledge me in public. And but that was a sign of respect and soI was grateful that for that. But I also knew that if I was ever introuble they would be right there to help me. I mean because they weremy family even though they couldn't really because I was not reallyfamily they couldn't talk to me because it would look bad, it wouldmake them look bad, it would make me look bad. It would just be bad.And my neighbor Syham's husband was very nice. I never actually hada conversation with him, well I did when I visited their family inanother village. But it was the big you know the grandparents and allthe uncles and aunts and so it was all, it was a big family gathering62:00so I was in the room with everybody and that was probably the most I'dever talked to him and it wasn't much. And when I would see him onthe bus you know we didn't, there was not even no nod, no eye contact,no nothing. But I knew that he knew I was on the bus and I knew thathe was on the bus. And I knew that if something were to happen hewould probably help me you know. And to contrast that with like mylandlord's family whose brothers would talk to me in the street andyou know follow me around. I mean it was very, it's a very clear line.It's very easy to see when someone is not behaving in a normal way.

WILSON: And so the landlord's family was not behaving, those men were

not behaving in a normal way?

GORTON: Right.

WILSON: They were trying to take advantage of you as an American woman?

GORTON: Well I think there were a lot of things going on with that and I

don't know. Do you want me to?

WILSON: Go ahead, whatever you feel comfortable with.

GORTON: Well the--There was and there were also people that I met that

63:00were men that spoke English and were just so excited to try and speakEnglish that I mean it wasn't a big deal to shake their hand or speakto them.

WILSON: In your village even?

GORTON: Not in my village because I controlled that. I didn't want, I

didn't acknowledge anybody unless it was in a private home. Or in mytraining village, it was easier because my LCF was there and so he waskind of my brother you know father type.

WILSON: Right.

GORTON: And that's okay. Like if the father's there it's okay. But in

my village I didn't have anyone really like that and so I did not, Ifelt so rude doing it but I ignored people and just you know kind ofonly women that I talked to. And that was I mean to keep my reputationin tact. I mean I you know, but those brothers would talk to me on thebus. The one brother who shared my house, like he and his wife lived64:00in the front part of the house. You know, "Okay Abby! We're here!Let's go!" And you know because the bus would drop me off at my house,and that was just you know I would cringe every time because and peoplethe family--In a small village like that the families know who actssome ways, so it didn't hurt me that badly but one of the brothers whois mentally ill and who they put, they put him in a hospital when I gotthere but he came out a couple months after I had been there. And hewould talk to me in the street in English and he would follow me. Andone day my neighbor Hollah she told me, she said, "You need to makesure that stops because people will think badly of you if you let himfollow you." And I'm like I don't, I don't want to talk to him! Andthen he, she told me some things about him. I mean he had raped an 11year old girl and her family had to move out of the village completelybecause it was so shameful for her and her family. And he started65:00waiting for me at the house.

WILSON: But her family had to move out, not his?

GORTON: Right, exactly, right. But when he started waiting for me after

school at my house that was my like oh we're not having this anymore.And I called Peace Corps but just to let them know it was going on.But since direct conflict is not, you know I didn't ask them to comeout but I went to his aunt, the brother's aunt and I said, "I don'twant him waiting for me after school. That's inappropriate." And shesaid, "Oh but he's a little bit sick," and I said, "Oh but that's notokay. You know you would not let your daughter, that happened to yourdaughter you would not let that happen to your sister you know." Soshe told her husband who told my landlord who told his brother to stopdoing it and it stopped. But it was kept in the family.

WILSON: Right.

GORTON: And I went to the woman who then communicated to the husband who

then communicated--I mean so it's a very--

WILSON: And you had learned how to do that? That was suggested to you as

66:00a way of dealing with it or that's something you'd learned over beingthere?

GORTON: Well I mean that just seemed to be the right way to do it. And

then I called Peace Corps and I said, "This is what I've done locallybut I want you to know incase something else happens," which did andthey had to send their security person out and you know talk to thefamily and stuff. But yeah handling it first within the family, saveface and not you know. And then it would be inappropriate for me totalk to a man directly and so that I mean--

WILSON: Okay but then when it escalated or when he didn't pay attention

to what they said.

GORTON: Well it was a different--

WILSON: Oh it was a different?

GORTON: It was a different situation.

WILSON: Oh okay.

GORTON: The brothers all started having coffee right in the middle of

my sidewalk, which was my only entrance to my house, which and theywould never do that to a Jordanian woman. Never because the father orthe brother, they would get in major trouble. And at that point I feltlike I needed to let them know that I do have a father, you know my67:00Peace Corps father because me doing it was not an effective. I'm notreally you know.

WILSON: And your family across the street really couldn't?

GORTON: They have to live in the village for the rest of the--

WILSON: In the village and so that wouldn't work.

GORTON: You know I mean so that wouldn't--

WILSON: Yeah, yeah it's complicated isn't it?

GORTON: And I didn't, you know I went to them and I said this is what's

happening and Hollah said well you should talk to me you know foradvice because I was really like part of their family. And she said,"Oh you should talk to the wife of the landlord," and she, I was notcomfortable with that and so we kind of I mean they when I left thebrother that lived in the front part of the house came over. And Idon't know that he would have physically attacked me but he verballyconfronted me big time because I was leaving. And I was lucky becauseHollah's family was there and they stand, they did say, "You need to68:00calm down and stop that," and so I was lucky I was at their house atthat time. But I think so I think if I had been in physical dangerthey would have helped me.

WILSON: But you needed the Peace Corps too?

GORTON: The power dynamics of the village and you know it was just kind

of complicated, so it was better for Peace Corps because they don'thave--I mean they can come in and say, they could come in as a maleand say. And what they did it was actually really interesting. Two ofthe staff members came in and talked to the landlord's family, and whatthey said was, "We've overtrained her. We've trained her so much tobe so sensitive that she's not comfortable with public attention frommen. And so please don't you know, she's just too--" You know so likeI mean it was saving their face.

WILSON: To saving their face, wow.

GORTON: But letting them know that Peace Corps was aware and please

don't let this happen. And then of course the advice they gave me they69:00said, "Oh well you need to have the landlord's wife over more and makesure she's included with everything," and--

WILSON: That wasn't?

GORTON: That wasn't, I mean that was pretty not fun.

WILSON: To try it?

GORTON: To try to be around her and it was you know it was complicated

but anyway. So it was really interesting the problem solving, and someof that is similar to Chinese culture in the saving face way. But themale/female interaction is very different. And so you know I, beingraised in the US I'm used to confronting and dealing with. You know ifI had a problem with someone following me I would probably turn aroundand yell at them and say, "Go away!" or I would you know--

GORTON: Maybe, I guess what's--It's definitely one of the hardest if not

the most. But also the knowing what you can do and what you can't do,figuring that out because a lot of the rules like women weren't allowedto walk faster than a certain pace because otherwise people would thinkbadly of you. But then at the same time you know like I guess being,I had to play more, like kind of my friends that were Jordanians playedby the rules but they tried everything in their power to break therules, like to get around the religious, the cultural norm.

WILSON: Women?

GORTON: Women.

WILSON: Yeah, like what?

GORTON: Like smoking, you know women smoking is so bad and that's

horrible for your reputation but you know my friend Hollah and itshocked me because she did this. I had known her for about six monthsand when I saw her smoke for the first time I was like, "Ah! What are71:00you doing?" And she's like well you know, there's just so many hiddenthings that women do behind closed doors or that men do when they'reyou know. I mean a good example unfortunately is pornography. I meanthe male volunteers, see we got to get together and exchange storiesand see what each you know because the men had different challengesthan the women did.

WILSON: Yeah, totally.

GORTON: As volunteers totally different, and you know I think I hate

to say that the women had it more difficult but the men were able toget away with more stuff and not have to worry so much about theirreputations. They did a little bit but it was really interesting tosee the way that I mean like the front that's put on in the name ofreligion and culture and these are you know and then to see what goeson behind the scenes. But as an American when you're behind the scenesa lot of the values, even though they're not you know a woman might be72:00smoking. But if I smoked it would be a different value judgment on methan, I mean I don't smoke but if I did--

WILSON: Yeah, yeah.

GORTON: That would be a different you know even though they were doing

it, they would still apply the same judgment as if it--It was justcomplicated, and as an American you know they get Oprah and they get WWEwrestling and they get 90210, Beverly Hills 90210. I mean so they seea lot of movies and television shows that portray American women in acertain way. And so you have to really fight really hard to keep thatstereotype you know even though some of the girls in my village, theteenagers or the young women in their 20s would wear like tight jeansI would never wear tight jeans because I made sure you know everythingwas covered at all times because as an American people would take,would see that and go oh typical you know like and take advantage. Butwhereas a Jordanian woman wearing tight jeans but covered with hijab73:00and grown up in that village it's a different, it's just a differentdynamic. And it was just kind of hard to navigate. You know you kindof always had to be, even with your close friends, on and you couldn't.You know like things with religion I mean if you know if you wereJewish you weren't, you were recommended not to tell anyone.

WILSON: And did you have Jewish volunteers?

GORTON: I don't know.

WILSON: Oh, you don't even know.

GORTON: Nobody--

WILSON: Nobody said anything, wow.

GORTON: And for example like my brother is serving in Iraq in the army

right now. He's studying biology at UK you know I mean.

WILSON: Yeah you would never have let that out.

GORTON: Yeah and like I would walk into homes and there would be big

portraits of Saddam Hussein and like my friend Hollah's mother Miriamshe loved Saddam Hussein. She, when his trial would come on TV wewould be in the visiting, the women's visiting room and her husband74:00would say, "Miriam! You know your future husband's on television,"and she would run in and I mean just loved Saddam Hussein, and a lotof people felt that way. And so that was really kind of foreign aswell because we don't think that way here necessarily. And I wasin the northern, most northern part of Jordan so I could see fromHollah's roof we could see the Sea of Galilee on the right hand sidein the distance but we could still see it, and then the mountains ofIsrael straight across. And so that was, I'm thankful that I didn'tunderstand Arabic for some cases because some of the volunteers thatdid said you would not believe some of the hateful things that aresaid. And I mean in any part of the world there are people who youknow are racist or whatever, but that was a big issue. And thereare so many different, you know there's Jordanians who hate the75:00Palestinians that are in Jordan, and then it's so complicated but it'sreally it's just fascinating. In different areas it's a very tribalsociety and so like you can tell. You know if you hear a last name youcan say, "Oh! You're from this village or you're from that village,"like my village everybody's last name was Azzam and so all of the, Imean everybody's last name was Azzam. And so when I would say I was inMakraba everybody would go, "Oh! Al Azzam," and know where you're from,so that was pretty interesting too.

WILSON: So all the politics of what people thought about Israel or

Palestinians or Iraq or Syria or whatever?

GORTON: And a lot of in my training village some of my neighbors were

Syrian, like married a Jordanian from Syria. And it's so close to the76:00border, you know my village was so close to the border and then I hadyou know there were some people in my village that were from Iraq. Andthat was you know that was interesting. Like my friend--

WILSON: Who would have moved there from Iraq?

GORTON: Married a Jordanian and came to--

WILSON: Married a Jordanian, right.

GORTON: And then you know there were also people that you know a lot of

soldiers. My village was primarily soldiers, farmers, herders, formergovernment people, I think we had one doctor, and teachers. And a lotof the soldiers had been in Haiti with NATO, with the UN I mean so itwas kind of a different. I guess children don't grow up thinking, "Oh!What do you want to be?" It's kind of what you kind of end up being and77:00so those were the main jobs in that area of Jordan.

WILSON: But you wouldn't have had an opportunity to talk about a person's

experience in Haiti because they were men and you were women or?

GORTON: Right, right.

WILSON: So you just knew that part?

GORTON: Through the women, oh my husband's in or just got back from.

It's amazing the information that is passed. I mean I knew a lotabout several of the men that I saw, but it wasn't because I'd talkedto any of them it was because the women you know would talk about them.

WILSON: Right, right, and so what kinds of things? So you were when you

were doing things with people in your village you were with women?

GORTON: Right.

WILSON: So what kinds of things did you do with them when you were

across the street with your--?

GORTON: A lot of cooking.

WILSON: Okay so like you were making, you were showing me pictures of

making a--?

GORTON: A dessert for--

WILSON: A dessert for?

GORTON: The festival Eid el fitr, which is the festival after Ramadan.

78:00Most women spend three or four hours cooking each afternoon for eitherthe lunch meal or sometimes the evening meal, like depending on thehusband's work schedule. The families eat at different times, and soa lot of the day would be spent cooking or planning to cook for thenext day. You know we would dig out squash in the evening, sit aroundtalking and you know digging out the insides of squash to make d forthe next day.

WILSON: And what's dawali?

GORTON: Well dawali is the grape leaves with rice and kind of a meat

mixture stuffed.

WILSON: Okay and how do you spell that? D-I--?

GORTON: D-A-W-A-L-I and then cusa is the C-U-S-A is the squash that's

stuffed with rice and meat and spices.

WILSON: Oh okay, good food?

GORTON: Excellent food, oh all of the food was really good. And it was

79:00and there was plenty of it and people would share even if they didn'tyou know I mean it was amazing hospitality. But then a lot of timestoo in the evening the men would occupy the main part of the house withtheir friends or you know and so the women would be in another room andwe would sometimes put on music and dance or just sit around and talk.Some women did a lot of embroidery.

WILSON: Talk about what?

GORTON: Mostly cooking. The children gossiped about the neighbors.

There wasn't a lot of interest--sometimes I would try to ask questionsand share America and there wasn't a lot of interest in learning aboutwhat my life was like in the US.

WILSON: Oh that's interesting? And that was different from your

experiences in other countries or at least a little bit?

GORTON: A little bit, yeah. And because I think I know I had several

80:00conversations with Hollah who spoke English very well, so it was easyto get pretty--I could understand her answers to my questions, whichwas nice. I think she assumed that my life in the US was like herlife there.

WILSON: Oh really?

GORTON: And so she didn't really ask.

WILSON: Even though she had seen television and had stereotypes of

Americans?

GORTON: Yeah.

WILSON: But she assumed that you cooked and you did?

GORTON: Mmmhmm, and it was really hard. I mean people would ask me.

There was a lot of conversation about food and like the teachers atmy school we would talk about school and they would say, "Well whatdo you eat?" And I would say, "Well I eat rice and I eat chicken andI eat beef." And they would say, "Oh so you eat mansef?" which is atraditional dish. And I would say, "No, I've never had mansef. Iprepare it differently," you know because there are about nine dishesthat are prepared. There's no, there's not a lot of experimenting when81:00it comes to cooking. It's pretty much you know everybody learns what'scooked and that's it. And of course most people like don't go torestaurants in my village. You know there were a couple times duringRamadan that I broke fast with other volunteers at the Pizza Hut inIrbid, which was really exciting. But I couldn't you know I couldn'ttell my village that. You know we went to so and so's house and cookedwas the story. And so I think there just wasn't a lot of interest orthere was, if she did know she didn't, she thought it was unfair anddidn't want to--This is me guessing but I mean probably she knew therewasn't anything she could do about it and so why bother learning what.I mean that would be my guess. And I didn't--

going to university in Amman and so she commuted three hours each wayevery day to her classes. And one day she had a test real early inthe morning so she spent the night at an uncle's house in Amman. Shecame back and she said, "You wouldn't believe his house," she said,"They have two cars. My aunt and uncle each have a car. They have youknow when you have tea or coffee a different sweet comes with it. Theyhave the kids there are four boys and they each, two of them share aroom and two of them share the other room. And they have a TV and acomputer in each room and they have heat in the house." And she wastelling me all this and just really like, "Wow! Can you believe this?"And it was fascinating, I mean it kind of felt good because I thoughtwell she thinks I'm you know and I do live as her family does kindof across the street. But it was sad that she had no concept of what83:00our life in America, what my life in America was like. And I didn't Imean I didn't say anything you know. I kind of felt sort of ashamed,oh well we've got what we have here. But I think there's not a lot oftravel outside in some families. Some families are different; I meanit varies. And of course Amman, the capitol is you know people are farmore technologically advanced than you know I am, so it's just a widevariety that you encounter. And it's just interesting.

WILSON: Let me go back for a moment because we haven't really talked

about either where you lived and what your living conditions were likeor your actual Peace Corps job. So start with your house. I've seen apicture of it but go ahead and describe that.84:00

GORTON: Okay, I had a cute little house I thought. It was a stand alone

home and the front path was occupied by a newly married couple andthen I had the back half. And I had a pretty big bedroom with a, theneighbors gave me a rug and there was a bed in there and I bought acloset. And then I had a small kind of long, longish rectangular livingroom and lots of windows. And then I had a kitchen that was prettygood size, and Peace Corps gave us a refrigerator and a stove top, youknow gas burners. I had a sink and then I had a bathroom with a showerand a Turkish toilet, and we had a hot water heater. They requiredall landlords to put in hot water heaters if there wasn't one already,85:00which was so wonderful. And of course but water conservation overthere is not only necessary but it's cultural. You know you wouldn't,even if you had the water you wouldn't want to use it unwisely.

WILSON: So your shower would last?

GORTON: Well two, a lot of times I did the turn the water on, get wet,

soap up, turn it, you know. And then my host family in my trainingvillage I took bucket baths so I mean. So I took a shower about twicea week and then sometimes towards the, like a few months in I found agym in Irbid because I wasn't allowed to walk outside so I was kind ofgoing a little stir crazy. So I could run and walk on the treadmillbut they had hot showers there too.

WILSON: So that was nice.

GORTON: So I kind of upped my shower days when I joined that. And

so and then outside of my house was absolutely gorgeous. Across thestreet was an empty field and they were growing onions in the spring,86:00and then beyond that there was another field where Bedouin people camein the summer and fall and setup tents with their camels and theiranimals and worked the fields. And then there were olive trees allaround my house, so it was--

WILSON: But now you could not walk outside? Is that right? You couldn't

go for walks?

GORTON: No, I walked to school because that was a purpose and you know

everybody was walking to school because nobody had cars.

WILSON: How long did it take to walk?

GORTON: Maybe five, ten minutes or so. I mean it wasn't that far. But

I couldn't just go outside and go for a walk. And there were a coupleof times when Hollah would come with me. I would say, there were acouple times when I went, "I've got to get outside because it's sobeautiful out and I have not walked, haven't moved," because a lot ofthe social time consisted of sitting around and drinking really sugary87:00tea and eating.

WILSON: Did you gain weight?

GORTON: Oh yeah, oh yeah, which was kind of the opposite of what Peace

Corps, you think of Peace Corps volunteers doing. But it was youknow and it's rude to say no to tea or coffee. I mean you can't, youwouldn't want to offend your host or hostess. But I wasn't allowed togo in stores in my village. Older married women could but I would haveto find a kid on the street, just grab a kid off the street and sendthem if I wanted something, send them to the store for me.

WILSON: I'm watching this and it's going to go off here so let's stop.

Tape two with Abby Gorton.

WILSON: Abby, let's finish talking a little bit more about your living

situation. I just was asking you about water. How did you deal withdrinking water? We talked about your shower but--

GORTON: Well, drinking water we boiled the drinking water and not--Some

88:00of the families thought that was a little bit odd because they drinkjust straight tap water. But it was not clean and my digest--youknow, not safe to drink so I boiled all my drinking water. And it wasdelivered I think once a week. I know in my training village watercame once a week and so the family, you had to parcel, you know, parcelout your water.

WILSON: So that water came?

GORTON: Was in a tank on the roof.

WILSON: Was put in a tank, okay.

GORTON: And most families either had wells or they had a tank on the

roof. And so since I was living by myself I never really had a waterproblem running out, but some of the families I know in my host familywe ran out of water a couple times sort of right before it was goingto come. And so and there are certain days that you do washing andcertain days that you take baths. And so to conserve and make sure you89:00know you have enough water.

WILSON: Where would the water have come from?

GORTON: It's trucked in.

WILSON: It's trucked in from?

GORTON: Yeah from Irbid or--And some families had wells and so they

kind of had unlimited and the well water was safe to drink and actuallytasted pretty good.

WILSON: But if you went to somebody else's house like across the street,

you were drinking tea so you were hoping it was boiled? And how did youdeal with that?

GORTON: It was sort of boiled. I like to tell me self that it was

sufficiently boiled and just kind of go with it. I mean I had giardiaonce when I was there, but I tried not to look too closely. I mean theother thing, not so much to do with water but when you were in a group,like there were several times when I would have a meal with 30 otherpeople. And after dinner when you're served the Arabic coffee in theselittle cups there was one cup, and so if you were at the end of theline you drank after all 30 people. And I mean you get, and you can't90:00say no because that would rude, and so you just I mean I just kind of--Most people don't get sick there very often and so I figured oh heck I'mfine. I washed my hands, you know I tried to be cautious about what Idrank and ate but you know.

WILSON: So in terms of health you were okay while you were there?

GORTON: I was pretty healthy. I didn't have, I never really--

WILSON: And what kinds of, we didn't talk about that I guess. What

kinds of health things did they do in training?

GORTON: Well we had a--There's no malaria there, which is nice so I mean

we just kind of went through the health book and did basic first aidkind of.

WILSON: But there weren't, you didn't have really any health concerns?

GORTON: And I taught 3rd grade, 5th grade, and 7th grade and then I had

a remedial 1st grade class of four students. They were so cute.

WILSON: Okay, so what was a typical day like?

GORTON: Morning assembly would begin at 7:45 at school.

WILSON: And before that you've eaten?

GORTON: Well before that I've eaten--

WILSON: You get up at?

GORTON: I get up at probably 6:30 or 6:45, listen to the BBC. That was

the first thing I did was I turned my radio on every morning and everynight.

WILSON: The BBC is important.

GORTON: And then I usually had oatmeal. Some mornings I would go have

coffee with my neighbors, but most of the time I was running late to dothat. So just grab a quick bite to eat and walk to school. Of course92:00I didn't have to shower or anything so and morning assembly dependingon--It was really interesting. Depending on the time of year we hadmorning assembly if the weather was nice. If we didn't, school startsat 8:00 so we wouldn't worry about the 7:45 thing. And I eventuallylearned that most of the teachers didn't even show up until 10 till orso, but that changed so it was kind of hard to gauge. Get to school,have morning assembly, teach classes.

WILSON: Now you had classes by yourself? I mean the kids were coming to

you for English classes or you were going to their classes or how didthat work?

GORTON: It varied. Each grade had their own classroom and so the

teachers rotated between classes. I, sometimes I co-taught with oneof the--There were two other English teachers at my school and Noorwas fresh out of college so it was her first year of teaching. And93:00then Rawan had been teaching for a while and she actually was gettingready to have a baby when I first arrived. So when she left to havea baby I took her classes. The, sometimes I co-taught, sometimesthe teachers said, "Oh just go teach by yourself," and so I would goteach by myself. At the beginning I tried to lesson plan and reallyhave every minute timed out, but depending upon which teacher was incharge of ringing the bell that day the class would be anywhere from30 minutes to 50 minutes long. So I kind of just had in my head whatmaterials I was supposed to be teaching for that day and kind of triedto cover as much as I could. The Ministry of Education was, theirmain goal was to get through the book. And so as an English teacherthat was really frustrating to me because the kids weren't necessarilygetting any of what I was saying but I had to finish that book. And ifI didn't finish that book then that was the worst thing in the world.94:00And so I tried to make, to do activities that were outside the bookbut there was so much material to cover. And you know classes wouldget cancelled some days, some days would be cleaning days, and I didn'treally know what--I just kind of went in not expecting anything andtried to do the best I could and tried to prepare and--

WILSON: Had there ever been a Peace Corps person in this village before?

GORTON: No, I was the first volunteer in my village.

WILSON: And was, were all of you teaching English in elementary schools,

in primary schools?

GORTON: Some people taught in high schools. There were no college

teachers teaching.

WILSON: Right, and there wasn't--The idea was to teach English. Was

the idea also to maybe be a model for English teachers that were in theschools? I mean was there anything else there?

GORTON: I think so. I think my job description and then what I ended up

95:00actually doing was very different, were different things. The teacherswere extremely, they were kind of like, "Why are you here? What areyou doing? We don't want anything to do with you," for the first fewmonths, which was fine. I mean we kind of--I could kind of understand.

WILSON: That hadn't been part of--?

GORTON: They--None of--My principal lived in another village, a

different village.

WILSON: Okay, so he's the one who had requested you?

GORTON: She--

WILSON: She requested you?

GORTON: I don't know who requested me because she wasn't principal when

they requested a Peace Corps volunteer.

WILSON: Oh okay.

GORTON: Most volunteers had a counterpart.

WILSON: Yeah.

GORTON: I didn't have a counterpart.

WILSON: At all.

GORTON: Right and the two--My principal and the biology teacher came to

the conference for Peace Corps. Neither of them lived in my village soand neither of the English teachers I mean they had no idea what PeaceCorps was, why I was there. And when I asked them to volunteer to be96:00my counterpart they kind of went, "No, I'm not going to do that." Youknow kind of it was a challenge to--I didn't even try to teach whatPeace Corps was about. I just tried to get along with the teachersbecause naturally they're--I was an outsider and I mean it's a verysmall community. So that was and of course and the other thing is thatthe principal gave me my own room as an English room to set up to youknow they wanted me to set it up. And it was wonderful because I wasable to have remedial classes in there and keep resources in there andso that was great. But you know the other teachers were like, "Whydoes she get a special? You know she's an American," and I mean therewas a lot of--I mean by the end of, I was really proud because by theend of the semester we had exchanged cell phone numbers and we hadtexted each other for holidays and they wished me a merry Christmasand I wished them a happy Eid through text messaging. So it was like97:00I was kind of starting to break into the fortress of that inner clique,which is really hard to do. But the other thing is that the teachers,I mean the workload it was really different than the way we do it hereI think. And I've never taught in the US so I can't say how differentit was but--

WILSON: Well you can compare it to China I suppose?

GORTON: My experience, well to China yeah. When I taught in China, well

I think most teachers teach all the class periods that day. But inJordan in my school there would be a class and then you'd have a break.You know there were like maybe three or four classes a day at themost, maybe even two. There was one day when I just had the first twoperiods of class and then the rest of the day I liked it because I couldmake visual aids and I could you know get stuff done. I don't like tosit around and waste time. And most of the day consisted of drinkingtea and sitting around and wasting time and going to class ten minutes98:00late and leaving class ten minutes early and it was very unstructured.And the principal didn't have, didn't want to or have a grip on theteachers or the students. And so that was frustrating to me becauseto my thinking you know I wanted to plan my lessons, know what I wasdoing, have my 45 minute class and get you know get things going, youhave a routine. And the teachers they would switch my classes on meand not tell me until that class. And so that was for the students Imean I can't even imagine being a student there because you know therewas no routine. Some days you'll have English this period and somedays it will be you know switched, and so it was fairly unorganized.But and at the same time you know coming into the situation I couldn'tjust say, "You need to do this," because who am I to say that? You99:00know and I'm not worried about, you know, I didn't have a husband or afather at home yelling at me and telling me you know. This was kind ofin a way now that I look back at it kind of a way for them to socializeand to be in charge and have control over that situation.

WILSON: And they couldn't do that in other parts of their lives.

GORTON: Right, and the other thing is they were raised in a school system

like that so it was normal. That was all normal and I had trouble.

WILSON: But in the other situations, the other volunteers you talked to

who had counterparts, did they still have problems with the education?

GORTON: The organization.

WILSON: The organization.

GORTON: Yeah, yeah I mean the switching around and the disorganization

I should say. And when the supervisors, the supervisors would come,excuse me, maybe once a month and they would just come in and justcriticize, pick every little thing apart for the teachers. But then100:00leave and not really I mean there was very little outside managementhappening. And I mean my principal I you know I, she had a reallyrough life too. I mean it's like all these things going on and youknow so I had to kind of force myself to sit and drink tea because thatwas as important as getting the English stuff done.

WILSON: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

GORTON: And so like eventually some of the teachers became interested

because I was trying to get an adult English class going for theteachers. They wanted nothing to do with that. And then eventuallylike one of them was working on a master's degree and as I got to knowthem they would come to me with questions and we would have fun grouplearning discussions, but it was just a very slow process for gettinginto that group. And my landlord's wife was one of the teachers and101:00she was very, I think she was threatened by an outsider coming in.And so I think she was really insecure and so she kind of made thingsyou know she would, it was like I felt like I was in 8th grade orsomething. I mean it was you know talk about me and spread rumorsand you know stupid vicious things that really made it difficult toactually do what I was there to do. And eventually though I kind offeel like I was in the community to just sort of be there to say hiand I don't think Peace Corps necessarily wanted me to teach English.I mean they wanted me to teach English but being in the community andgetting to know the community was more important than, because a lotof teachers weren't even from the village. So just exposing that, andmaybe future volunteers will have at least they'll have an idea of thevillage will have an idea of what an American's like and what you know102:00how I teach so that might--It was kind of a groundbreaking kind ofthing. I mean because all the teacher training we got was great butwhen we got into the schools it just wasn't real. I mean it was and itwas so frustrating. I talked to one volunteer who had been there for,she was almost there for I guess a year. She had been there at leasta year when I got there. She said, "Yeah now I only cry once a week atschool," because I mean it's so stressful to have all these different.And then the form of discipline I think the thing that bothered methe most was that hitting and beating on students was the form ofdiscipline. And so A) that was hard to watch, B) the kids didn't knowany, didn't respond to anything else and I wasn't going to hit them.And so my classes were just, we couldn't get anything done especiallywith the 3rd graders. I had 27 3rd graders and it was a co-ed classand most of my time was spent trying to get people calmed down. And103:00I made the mistake once of saying, "Oh I'm going to get the principal.You're going to have to go to the principal's office." And so we hadthe principal come up and she literally just beat these children. AndI was like, "I'm never doing that again. I'll have a rowdy class andwe won't get anything done," but you know. I mean and I guess thepositive side to that is that a lot of the kids you can walk into theclassroom and you know that those certain, you can see the kids thathave been told, "You're stupid. You're slow. You're not anything,"and they're just, they're tuned out. And there were a couple of my 7thgrade girls that when I got were just completely tuned out. And theywere kind of, I mean I talked to, I mean there were only--I only had 14students in my 7th grade class so it was a great size class because Icould engage each of the students. And you know these girls by the end104:00of the semester, that first semester they were raising their hands andI wasn't--because I would call on them, I would make them you know theyweren't used to being; they were used to being ignored. And so that wasa really wonderful change to see and of course the older you know theolder girls didn't need so much discipline so it was easier to actuallyteach English and you know easier to sort of zip through the activitiesthat we had to do that were kind of pointless and do other things.

WILSON: And do things that you wanted to do.

GORTON: That would be more effective. And I found that a lot of the

books were so far above the level of English that they were doing.And everything's geared toward this national exam to get into thiscollege and so there's not. It's just kind of a disconnect withlearning English and you know now they teach it from 1st grade up sothat's going to be better. But they used to just teach it startingin 5th grade, and so my 7th graders had just learned from 5th gradeand they had these books that were designed for somebody who had been105:00learning English for--so I don't know, there were a lot of challengeswith teaching.

WILSON: Okay, what--Let's go back to the typical day for a second. So

you might teach anywhere from two to four classes?

GORTON: Wel, school's out at 2:00 unless they decide to shave off the

6th period. So sometimes it was out at 1:00 depending. And so afterschool everybody goes home to lunch and I kind of liked having. It wasreally sweet because on my way home everybody would, "Oh! Come in fortea! Come in for coffee! Come in for lunch!" and so sometimes I did stopfor coffee or tea but not every day because often times I was just sokind of worn out from teaching or yelling or something. And so I would106:00go home and have lunch and a lot of times people would bring me a plateof food or invite me to their home for lunch. And so I would sometimesdo that and you know it varied. I did very little cooking for myself,which was really surprising because I don't mind that. But and so inthe afternoon I generally did not visit in the afternoon. I kind oftook that time to write, catch up on letters or read, sometimes watcha DVD, just kind of relax. And then around 4:00 that's when visitingwould start. And that was just unbelievable. I mean you go from, andof course being a newcomer and a guest I got invited out more than--

WILSON: Other people?

GORTON: --other people because you know I didn't know everybody yet.

And so I would literally just go kind of from house to house and drinktea and coffee and visit and you know. And then a lot of times in the107:00evening I would end up at Hollah's house and just go in and hang outwith her family. We would watch TV or you know so I worked with hersix year old brother a lot with English. I had a couple workbooks thatI brought from home that he liked to color. And so we would color andyou know kind of do activities together. And then I would usually gohome and they would always say, "Oh! It's so early. Why do you leaveso early?" And I would leave at you know 9:00 or so and go home andeither write in my journal or read or something and then go to bed. SoI guess I usually went to bed around 10:30 or 11:00.

WILSON: And how often would you get into the bigger city where you had

done your training?

GORTON: I went in--

WILSON: Maybe once a week or something?

GORTON: I went in once a week usually on Saturdays because those

were fairly free days. We had Friday and Saturday off; that was our108:00weekend. I started going in a little more frequently once I figuredout the bus system because I knew the bus drivers and who would beactually running their buses on time. There was another volunteer wholived in the city who I got to watch her cat when she went out of town,which was really fun. But it wasn't really a bad trip in and back, butI had to be back before dark because well the buses stopped running.It would look bad for me to take a cab and probably be unsafe. Igot to Amman maybe once a month to pickup my mail and just go into thePeace Corps office and just check in and see everybody.

WILSON: That's good. What were your interactions with other Peace Corps

volunteers like? Did you--I mean you talked about the person that livedin--

GORTON: Irbid.

WILSON: Irbid.

GORTON: Well she had been a volunteer in the Philippines. She was about

65; I think she was 65. And I had very limited interaction. A lot ofthe volunteers, I didn't find this out until Christmas at the Christmasparty, I found out a lot of volunteers would go to Amman every weekend.

WILSON: Every weekend, uh-huh.

GORTON: And I was like, "Oh! Okay, that's why I don't know you guys as

well as you know each other," but that's not. I mean that's not whyI was there so I didn't really worry about that. There was anothervolunteer Suzanne who actually lived in my training village, and soI guess we would get together for lunch maybe once a week sometimes.110:00And of course at the internet place you--Everybody, there aren't thatmany places to--There was kind of a circuit so you'd wind up seeingvolunteers you know at the internet or at a certain restaurant or at acertain you know on the street and stuff. So I didn't have much. Wehad a holiday party for Christmas at the country director's house, soI saw all the volunteers then. And then we had a couple of trainingmeetings where I saw them and others, and so but it was fairly limited.I mean just--

WILSON: You've told a lot about the culture I think, Abby, and that's

nice and helpful to know. Are there any particularly memorable storiesfrom your Peace Corps service that you want to tell that you haven'thad a chance to tell?

GORTON: I think one of the best days I could have ever even imagined

111:00was well when I first arrived in Jordan you know there's olive treeseverywhere. And so they weren't ripe yet. I kept asking people, "Sowhen do you pick the olives? When is the olive season here?" just outof curiosity and it was a good conversation starter for new people.And some people gave different answers so it was fascinating. Andfinally it came to be the season to pick olives. And my neighbors, ofcourse all of my neighbors picked and it was a long, you know it was abig job. There were lots of olives to be picked. And so one afternoonI came home from school and Hollah's family was out picking olives.And I was so excited! I ran home and changed clothes and got mycamera and came back over and learned how to pick olives. And we spentseveral, a few hours picking that afternoon. And you know they weregetting this tree done and then moving to the next tree and then youknow. So that was a lot of fun. And then I was able to go. Hollah's112:00mother's sister lived in another village, so I went with them. And wedidn't actually go to pick olives but it turned out they were pickingolives so I helped them. You know and it was just the interactions. Ithink those kind of interactions, I went to so many weddings and thatwas a lot of fun. Even though I didn't know very many people there itwas such a festive time and actually the first wedding I went to in myvillage all the women were on one porch and the men were kind of over.And this guy, of course a lot of guns are shot you know up in the airand he shot a gun right next to where we were all sitting and all thewomen ducked and went, "Ahh!" and so it was kind of a funny you knowbonding experience to have early on. I'm trying to think of good--Imean there was just so many wonderful things. You know I got to,sadly I went to some funerals and also the month of Ramadan I think was113:00probably--I felt so lucky to be there and I fasted with everybody andthen broke a fast. You can get up in the morning and eat at like 3:30before the first call to prayer. And then you fast; you don't drinkor eat all day until the sun was setting around 5:30 or 6:00 when I wasthere. And it's such a wonderful time and everybody's so excited andyou eat that first date and then it's you know just a wonderful meal,a time to be together. And I ate at different, I ate at like 19 or 20different houses during Ramadan.

WILSON: Oh my goodness, wow.

GORTON: And I never ate at my own home because it's bad to eat alone

for Ramadan, so I was always out. But I always went to Hollah's houseif I didn't have another invitation and sometimes just to take a breakfrom socializing because it was really a lot. And ate in severaldifferent villages because people would say, "Oh! Come with me to114:00visit my aunt in such and such village," so we would go you know takethe bus however many miles away. And so that was, I mean Ramadan wasjust a fabulous way to know people and you know. Strangers who youknow no introduction needed they would invite me over to dinner or youknow, and those were some of the times when there would be like thewomen would get together and there would be 30 women of all differentgenerations you know eating mansef, which is a traditional dish ofchicken and rice and kind of a yogurt sauce. And that was just, it wasfascinating to see that interaction. And you know the veils come offand the hijabs come off and it's a party, so that was a lot of fun.

WILSON: How did religion influence what happened in other ways besides

Ramadan? I mean you were talking about relations between men and women,115:00you talked about how you, the kind of clothes you wore, but as a womanand as an American woman, what about the prayers five times a day orother kinds of things that I guess we think of that are manifestationsof Islam, practices of Islam?

GORTON: It was surprising to me how well the prayer times just fit. I

mean it's just so it's built around; the day is built around prayers.So it's not unusual to be driving along and see a police officerpraying on the side of the road or you know I would--Sitting insomeone's living room and they would say, "Oh I'm going to pray," andthey'd stand in the corner and they'd do their prayers. And at firstthat was a little bit I thought, "Oh well should I leave or should Isay?" you know. And it was just part of life and so it didn't really116:00disrupt, it didn't disrupt daily activities in any way. And you knowpeople, the men didn't have to go to mosque every time, which I wassurprised. I didn't really know how that all worked and--

WILSON: Did the women go to the mosque at all?

GORTON: One time they brought in a speaker for the women in the village

and they were allowed to go to the mosque, but no, they prayed athome. The other thing that I was surprised about was how much cultureinfluenced their religion because there were a lot or things thatweren't, that were cultural that were not religious but that were part,but that were kind of under that guise of religion. Well, that's howwe do it kind of thing. And one thing that I thought was fascinatingwas the covering because there's such a wide range of reasons that women117:00cover their heads or their whole faces. And I kind of thought wellit's all religious, but it's not. And so I had several conversationswith women who growing up they didn't cover but then they decided thatthey were in a place in their faith that they wanted to, and so thatwas their choice to wear the hijab and for religious reasons. Therewere a lot of women who just grew up wearing it. There were some womenwhose fathers or husbands when they got married said you have to wearit. There were some women who wore, like a few teachers at my schoolwore the full burka with the eyes, even the eyes, there were eye slits.

WILSON: To teaching?

GORTON: Well, they would take it off in the class.

WILSON: In the class? Okay, okay, but to come to school.

GORTON: But yeah and anywhere else outside they were covered. And in

118:00talking to several people about that, there are different reasons.Some of the women were so beautiful and I think their husbands wantedthem to cover. Some it was just because that's the way their familydid it, and some of it was economic because you don't have to worryabout your hair or your makeup or your clothing if you're wearing allblack. And so a lot of university students who were not very wealthywould do it for economic reasons.

WILSON: Oh that's interesting.

GORTON: Some of it was for respect. I mean you get more respect the

more you cover from men, and so that was kind of a safety about it.It's fascinating.

to get me to wear hijab so I did one day and it actually happened to bethe day Cassie and Amy, the other two volunteers, did too because thatwas like the most exciting thing for the host families. And we kindof debated it and we said, "Well is that disrespectful or is that beingrespectful?" And so you know we'll try it for a day and we actually gotrocks thrown at us. And not for that reason but we were like, "Well119:00we're not doing this again," you know.

WILSON: If the rocks are going to be thrown at us this is not good. So

why did you decide to come home?

GORTON: I think it was a combination of things. The Peace Corps offered

to change my housing situation to another place in the village, butthat I think would have offended more people than it would have--itprobably would have made things worse with my landlord's family, and itwould have meant I would have had to get into a whole new--I mean theneighborhoods are very close. And getting accepted and being a part ofthat neighborhood is a very big deal, and I think I would have offendedmy neighbors big time. And also when I--

WILSON: And you were really close to the neighbors across the street?

GORTON: And I was very close to across the street and down you know like

on the other side.

WILSON: So the Peace Corps had come in and things were okay for a while

back from Irbid or come back from Amman I would just get so upset abouthaving to go to my house because this brother in the front of my househe was just obnoxious, creepy, and doing things just pushing the limit.And I couldn't say, "You're doing this and it's inappropriate," butlike knowing it and plus when I did the night before I left actually hecame over and directly attacked, I mean directly confronted me and wasyelling at me and really, really nasty. So I think if I had stayed andmoved houses I don't know if my safety would have been okay.

WILSON: Wouldn't have helped, yeah, yeah, right.

GORTON: Because he was pretty mean but--

WILSON: So did Peace Corps offer to move you to another village?

GORTON: No, and I'm not sure that I would have. I don't know. I mean

121:00I had been there for five months in my village and the teaching thing,the teaching thing was really hard too. Just the kids--

WILSON: So that was part of it as well?

GORTON: That was part of it. My brother's in Iraq and my parents; I

didn't realize how worried my mom was because they never, they wouldnever say, "We want you to come home!" They never said that but when Igot home I realized that it was a really good thing just for her sanityyou know I came home. And I think I don't know bird flu and there's amillion, it just didn't quite work. And the support, the Peace Corpsstaff I think was well intentioned but the support the Jordanian staffgave was--I don't know how. It wasn't very helpful. It didn't, it wasjust kind of different. And the attitude, sort of the--Janet, who wasthe volunteer in the Philippines who's in her 60s, I mean she's having122:00a rough time too. I think I mean I was the 10th person to leave frommy group.

WILSON: Wow.

GORTON: And there's about a 50% rate of, and I know a lot of people who

were planning to leave in the summer but they stayed for a year becausethe benefits were better if you stay for year, but I wasn't willingto sacrifice. I mean sanity and you know health are much better thanyou know.

WILSON: Sure.

GORTON: So there were several reasons. I mean I think it's a really

difficult program to run and I think politically it's probablyimportant and it's good to have a show of volunteers there, but I don'tknow that single women should be placed in a village by themselves.

WILSON: Right.

GORTON: I think that's--

WILSON: And had they done that before?

GORTON: Oh yeah.

WILSON: And they've had a 50% attrition rate on a regular basis, is that

right? Did you all know that going in?

GORTON: No. Well, coming in it was really interesting because coming in

the lady I spoke to who actually called to say, "Would you like to cometo Peace Corps Jordan? Oh but wait, there's some things you need to123:00know." And she said, "You won't be able to drink and you won't be ableto have male visitors in your house," and I said that's fine. I meanyou know.

WILSON: Yeah you don't need that, right.

GORTON: That's fine, but if she had told me I wouldn't be able to walk

outside, I wouldn't be able to go in stores, and I wouldn't be--I wouldneed to be so on guard for any little miss--And there are some dynamicsthat are just really hard to explain there. And she told me about theclothing and I was fine with the clothing and stuff like that. ButI mean maybe if they put two female volunteers together in a villageor you know. It's just a really difficult place to have Peace Corpsvolunteers. And the teachers aren't really going to teach, they'regoing to be present because all the education system, all administrativeeducation wants is to get through the book. That's the goal.

GORTON: Right, which and I, when I brought that up it was sort of like,

"Oh somebody will fill that role naturally." But it's really, I thinkit's really comforting to go into a situation with somebody that knowsabout Peace Corps and knows about, has been a little bit trained andis excited for you to be there. I mean I don't even know, I mean myvillage I think overall was very supportive. But there wasn't really,and they were very sweet and hospitable in many ways but there wasn'tsomeone going, "We wanted--You know here's why we asked for you."

WILSON: We asked for you.

GORTON: And it was kind of like so I mean--

WILSON: Did you get a chance to talk about your concerns or suggestions

before you left like maybe having two volunteers in a village orwhatever?

GORTON: There was an exit interview but basically she said, "Oh well

we've heard all this before. You're just one of--"

WILSON: The third that's leaving or the half that's leaving.

GORTON: So I don't know that it was very effective, but I do feel like I

125:00made--I at least got Hollah thinking about things. I know that. And Igot some, I'll never--I don't know but I don't think, I think it needsto be advertised differently or changed somehow because the Peace Corpsthe way it's structured is just not effective there. I mean they're--

WILSON: Well yeah and what you were just starting to say. That's really

the next question. So what do you think your impact was during thetime you were there and what do you think the impact of the experiencewas on you?

GORTON: I think I mean I was--I hope that they put, well I don't know

that I hope that they put another. I hope they put another volunteerthere, not with that landlord's family. But the women in the communitywere excited about learning English. They were excited about learningabout, I was going to teach an exercise class. We had in the springwe had kind of set that up to go, and so I think there's a lot of126:00potential. I think the people, the women especially are very excitedabout getting out and doing things. And I feel like--

WILSON: And you thought you got Hollah thinking?

GORTON: I know I got her family thinking too, and I think I made a

difference with Senat, her younger brother. And I think--

WILSON: Are you still in touch with them?

GORTON: I am, yeah. I've called them a couple of times and they've

actually called me too.

WILSON: Good.

GORTON: So it's a good relationship. I left on a good note with

everybody and I just kind of forgot about the landlord's family. Ithink with the kids at school you know there were a couple girls;I don't know what kind of an impact I made. But the kids that gotignored I think really enjoyed being acknowledged and "Good job" andthat kind of thing. And so I hope that they felt--

WILSON: Maybe some of the 7th grade girls?

GORTON: Yeah some of the 7th grade and the other kids that kind of get

picked on and stuff like that, so I don't know. I mean I don't know127:00what impact--I think Peace Corps, and I think going into Peace Corps Iknew that you can't really define that or measure it because you neverknow.

WILSON: Yeah, yeah, and what about the impact on you? I mean it's early

but--

GORTON: It's early, I don't--

WILSON: You've been home for?

GORTON: About a month, a little over a month.

WILSON: Yeah.

GORTON: I mean it was interesting. I don't know that I've--It was very

stressful and so I think I'm not quite ready--

WILSON: To think about that?

GORTON: Yeah.

WILSON: What was it, as you look back at least at this point, was it not

really what you thought it was going to be?

GORTON: I don't--Well I think in some ways it was--

WILSON: And part of that maybe because it was Jordan but you know--

GORTON: Well in some ways it was very much what I thought it was going

to be.

WILSON: I expected to have a lot of time by myself and you know away

128:00from communications and things like that. I think that the women'ssituation was way worse than I thought it would be. And the fact thatthere was a known rapist outside my house every day, and that girlis now you know in some other village, has ruined her chance of--Thatwas really stressful to just think about what, you know the way thatsociety treats--And it's just different, and I know that probablysome of that goes on here and it's just that I've never been kind ofdirectly confronted with that, and there's nothing I can do about anyof the things--You know I found out one of the English teachers whowas my good friend actually who just had a baby, her husband was thesheik of the village, which is the village's kind of religious leader.And I found out that he beats her. I mean what do you do with that129:00information? I mean it was like there were all these things and it waslike I couldn't do anything about and so it was like just kind of avery--And I mean you know it was stressful to get on a bus and be theonly woman and know that I had to go do things, but having to--It wasjust a lot of stressful interaction with people. I mean there was onetime when I just got off the bus in the middle of nowhere and walkedbecause it was so scary being on this bus with these guys kind offighting with each other and you know not knowing what they do to meand you know. So stuff like that just kind of after a while kind ofwears you, you know wears you down and you kind of go, "Well I could bemuch more productive or happier or you know--"

WILSON: Doing something else.

GORTON: Doing something else and you know.

WILSON: I think it is interesting that they, and I gather that was

130:00true for all of you that they put you one person, one woman by herselfbecause they didn't do that at all at the beginning of Peace Corps. Sothey always put two women together.

GORTON: Oh really?

WILSON: Yeah they didn't leave people. In fact in our time they put,

always put two people together.

GORTON: I think that would be an interesting--

WILSON: That's interesting, but apparently they don't do that now. I

know that you're just back, but what are you thinking about doing next?

GORTON: Well I'm actually running--My mom's running for office and so

I'm managing her campaign. It actually worked out well and she kind ofdrafted me, which was good.

WILSON: Absolutely.

GORTON: I'm working, also working at a public relations firm part time,

and so I think I'll be here in Lexington until November and probablyafter the primaries start looking in earnest for a real job. I've131:00thought about international development. I kind of hadn't plan tothink about this for like another year so I'm kind of in that thinkingphase right now. I'm not sure.

WILSON: Is Foreign Service still a possibility?

GORTON: I'm going to take the written exam on Saturday. And so I did

an internship in the consulate so I kind of got an idea of what itwould be like and I might like to do that, but I wouldn't be--It'snot sort of my goal. It's something if that worked out then I wouldthink that's what would be meant to be, but it's not something that I'mreally intent on doing.

WILSON: Would you ever go back to the Middle East?

GORTON: I might. I mean I think it's in many ways it's wonderful. I

would not live by myself in a small conservative Muslim village forsure, absolutely. But I mean Amman is a wonderful city and the peoplein the village I mean I loved overall. I mean there are, if I wasn't132:00living there it would be really fascinating. But if you didn't livethere, you wouldn't get into the meeting people, so it's kind of adual--It's different. I really know, I know Jordan's supposed to bemore open than some other places. So I don't know that I would goanywhere else in the Middle East, but I'd like to travel there forsure. And if I, you know if I got stationed there as a Foreign Serviceofficer I think it would be interesting.

WILSON: So the last question here, well no there are two more questions

here actually. What has the impact of Peace Corps, specifically beingin Jordan, been on the way you think about the world and what's goingon now? And I guess I would amend that question to say particularly interms of the Middle East and our understanding of the Middle East and133:00foreign policy and the war and all of that--

mean a lot of it, so much of it is just cultural. I mean there are,I have heard this argument. I have made you know argued with peopleabout it I mean in a good way. But religion I mean there's not,there's not a lot of--I can understand why it's so hard to come up witha compromise or peace in that area because there is no bending. Itis very difficult to change sort of the religious. I mean it's very--religion is deeply embedded and the culture is very--I'm trying to think134:00how to say this right. There's no room for compromise; there's no roomfor cooperation I guess. And that was interesting to see.

WILSON: And so when you think about Iraq and Iran?

GORTON: I think about Iraq and Iran, and I think about Iran and I think

I would like to think that diplomacy is the way to do things. AndI think it is; I mean I personally believe it is. But you know hereI talked to my brother. He calls about once a week and he actuallycalled me in Jordan too and it's just different--it's not, you know youcan't force your way of life on people that don't want it. And thatI think in Iraq especially I mean we're trying to put this system inthat is not necessarily what people want and it's not. I mean I don'tknow. I mean I hope there's some resolution and that eventually there135:00can be peace. But the other thing too is that Christians and Jews andMuslims have been living over there for thousands of years and have hadconflicts and also had times of peace. And so when you draw officialboundaries and you--you know I mean it's a very tribal, it's just adifferent world and you know, I don't know. I'm probably, I understandsome things better now and I am completely confused about other things.

WILSON: Well sometimes that's what happens, right? What, and we've

gotten into this a little bit earlier Abby but let's finish off withthis. What do you think the role of the Peace Corps ought to be todaybased on your experience in Jordan?

GORTON: I can, in talking to people that have volunteered I mean I have

project working with AIDS. And it's a very concrete project and she'sgetting, you know, kind of able to make a difference. I felt like inJordan it's a fairly developed country. There aren't a lot of healthissues and it's more political, I guess. And that's okay, but I'mnot sure the people of Jordan want Peace Corps there. I would saythey probably don't just from my experience and maybe find it a littleinsulting in some cases. I mean I do think the one, the individualgrassroots effort is very--I still believe that's the best way. So I137:00don't know, I mean I think it depends on the country and the, you know,I think probably it's evolved. Peace Corps has evolved with the times,so I mean I can't comment on other countries. But I think Peace CorpsJordan definitely needs re-looked at and probably re-structured and.

WILSON: Is there anything else you want to say? Is there a question you