Welcome to the GWTW Forum.Guests (non-registered users) can view the forum but are unable to post. If you don't have anything to say then why would you bother to register?One of the most popular sections of the GWTW Forum has long been the Swap Meet. A great place to sell old, seldom flown kites or to get great deals on used (gently flown) kites. Only registered users can see the Swap Meet section, let alone wheel and deal. 1000's (literally) of kites have changed hands thanks to the Swap Meet.There are several more benefits to being a registered user, but you'll have to join our little community to find out all the "secrets".Questions or concerns? Contact Steve ... just drop an email to: forum.gwtwkites@gmail.com

I wish I had learnt the Slot first, but most of the kites I was flying at the time were not very slot friendly. One day after I'd been flying for a few years, Dan Whitney showed me how he was doing slots on his Gemini and the whole thing fell into place.

I tend to look at aggressive 540s and slots as being two sides of the same sandwich, but slow, flat 540s (old skool) are sort of a different thing. A croissant, maybe.

Let's not forget that a nice, "by the book" slot is not a slash-and-hack, aggressive thing either. A pop with one hand and release with the other to flatten the kite and turn the nose away, then another pop to initiate the spin. The nicest ones have the instant of pause after the kite flares, then a well-timed pop and slack to produce a nice, flat spin. And of course the all important clean, perfectly horizontal exit

That's very true but for someone just trying to get an idea, slash and hack may work to begin with. I'm all for "pretty", but there are some who will settle for "dirty" just to get started. And that's not so hard on a lot of newer kites.

Let's not forget that a nice, "by the book" slot is not a slash-and-hack, aggressive thing either. A pop with one hand and release with the other to flatten the kite and turn the nose away, then another pop to initiate the spin. The nicest ones have the instant of pause after the kite flares, then a well-timed pop and slack to produce a nice, flat spin. And of course the all important clean, perfectly horizontal exit

Holy cr@p, John, that 540 almost took that other guy's toupee off ! What was that, a Vapor you were flying ? Either that or an Illusion? Those older Prism kites do some nice 540s, and I have found them to be pretty easy and nice looking on the Qpro, too. I used to wonder (before I could do a 540) if the rotation should go towards the center or the side of the wind window, but have found that it can go either way, on either side.

OK, stupid noob question... Slot machine, Taz, and 540... All pretty close to the same thing ? Are the Taz and the Slot just horizontal 540s in different directions ? I have never seen any of these tricks done in person, and it took a couple of years to learn the 540 from videos. Thanks to Randy, Martin & Reggie, I finally got it.

OK, stupid noob question... Slot machine, Taz, and 540... All pretty close to the same thing ? Are the Taz and the Slot just horizontal 540s in different directions ? I have never seen any of these tricks done in person, and it took a couple of years to learn the 540 from videos. Thanks to Randy, Martin & Reggie, I finally got it.

~Rob.

They are all 540 spins started from an uneven flare, initiated from different orientations of flight (and therefore, different inputs to get the uneven flare)...for sure.

This realization helped me to really perfect the slot and taz. You need the same kite position for both, and they both start with the same orientation in flight (horizontal), but the slot spins from the upper wing...and the taz the bottom wing.

From horizontal flight, getting to an uneven flare is easy for the slot (almost too easy, so poor slots don't look anything like a 540 spin but still often 'go around'), and comparably difficult for the taz...but the uneven flare is essentially the same position for both (albeit relative to different wings).

obi

Logged

"When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been, and there you will always long to return." L daVinci

Thanks, guys. This stuff is hard for me to tell from video. I often find it difficult to tell which way the kite is facing in video, let alone when I'm flying. Just a mental disconnect caused by dyslexia (sp?) I think...

I know I've posted this vid a million times, but I feel like it helps to show these sorts of flat spin tricks slow enough to where you can get a better idea of what the kite needs to do. Maybe some new people would like to see it.

If you practice in light winds you can focus on the mechanics and not have to pop and pray that everything goes well. A normal quick 540 happens so fast, it's hard to understand what's going on.

If you're practicing these tricks and failing a lot, move on to something else and come back to it. You don't want to train your muscles to do it wrong.

Key to flat spins is nose away control. You can spin the kite around until the lines bind up if you can keep the nose from getting out of control. In the video, I do reversing flat spins by controlling the kite when it's nose away. If I had let the nose flair up too much the kite would be out of control. Any time the kite is nose away and under control, a flat spin can be started. Doesn't matter how you get there.

The key to nose away control is to always be in a down wind glide. It's just like a plane coming in for a landing, if you go too slow or pitch up too much, you'll fall out of the sky. Through all my flat spins the kite is moving down wind. It's moving very slow, but still moving down wind. For a nice flat 540 in higher winds, you should end up down wind quite a bit.

Thanks, guys. This stuff is hard for me to tell from video. I often find it difficult to tell which way the kite is facing in video, let alone when I'm flying. Just a mental disconnect caused by dyslexia (sp?) I think...

Thanks for posting the video, I have seen it, but never really concentrated on the individual tricks, just enjoyed the flying. Let me ask... around 1:20 in the video, I always thought that was called a Pinwheel. Is that the case ? Is a Pinwheel just another variation on the 540 ? I'm starting to feel alot more enlightened if all these tricks are related...

Thanks for posting the video, I have seen it, but never really concentrated on the individual tricks, just enjoyed the flying. Let me ask... around 1:20 in the video, I always thought that was called a Pinwheel. Is that the case ? Is a Pinwheel just another variation on the 540 ? I'm starting to feel alot more enlightened if all these tricks are related...

~Rob.

Glad you like the video, thanks.

Like any trick, these things all seem to have about 30 different names. In my world a pin wheel is started over head and the kite pretty much spirals down on its own. If you're cool you catch it in your hands. The trick works best indoors or in almost zero wind and on short lines.

In my vid, I like to think of those as multiple flat spins. I define that as being in control of the kite 100% of the time. At no time are both lines totally slack.

A good way to learn multiple flatspins/axels is to start by practicing pinwheels. Slowly advance from zero control, slack lines, to total control. Play around and see what you can do to keep the kite going. It took me a long time, but that's how I learned.

Use a pitch stable kite, it's a lot easier. The Ozone is a great kite to learn on and is actually easier than the vapor to control in my opinion. Also practice down wind glides until you can't stand it anymore. You must master that if you want to nail these sorts of tricks.

Our forum is made possible by the good folks whose ads appear above and by the members of our community (PayPal donation button at top)In case you missed it each ad is linked to the sponsors web site. So please, take a moment and visit our sponsors sites as this forum wouldn't be possible with out them.Interested in running an ad for your business or kiting event? Contact Steve at advertise.gwtwkites@gmail.com for a quote.