The plant step wouldn't be too long if you took run up steps before the x step. You do tilt your waist forward before the release but it isn't enough. You're halfway there with the waist forward bend angle. Looking at your videos check to see if your heart is directly above your right knee as the disc leaves your hand. That's easy to check in practice with a video camera so you'll get instant feedback. That should aid in developing quicker.

dude you need to get out of that mindset. seriously. 350 with fairway drivers is GREAT. if you are getting 350 with fairway drivers you need to REJOICE. You are probably getting faster discs out to 380+ right? That is PLENTY of D to win USDGC. Rather than working on going farther I would strongly urge you to work on throwing 350 or even 330 with accuracy and relaxation. If you can stay RELAXED and throw 350 you are infinitely better off than someone throwing 390 in their red zone. I think it is much easier to reach the goal of throwing 350 with relaxation than it is throwing 390 while bursting a blood vessel. And hey...once you are throwing 350 and staying nice and relaxed you can put just a little more umph into it and bam, you are throwing 375 and still staying mostly relaxed.

dude you need to get out of that mindset. seriously. 350 with fairway drivers is GREAT. if you are getting 350 with fairway drivers you need to REJOICE. You are probably getting faster discs out to 380+ right? That is PLENTY of D to win USDGC. Rather than working on going farther I would strongly urge you to work on throwing 350 or even 330 with accuracy and relaxation. If you can stay RELAXED and throw 350 you are infinitely better off than someone throwing 390 in their red zone. I think it is much easier to reach the goal of throwing 350 with relaxation than it is throwing 390 while bursting a blood vessel. And hey...once you are throwing 350 and staying nice and relaxed you can put just a little more umph into it and bam, you are throwing 375 and still staying mostly relaxed.

rant off

You're totally right. Thanks for the kick in the pants. IowaDiscGolf always preaches that to me, too. I really get caught up in trying to throw further when I should be practicing placement, putting, and upshots. The nice thing is that when you get a lot of snap you are throwing more relaxed, and thus, more accurate.

I'm not burning up my personal records with this shorter form yet, but I'm playing much more consistently. I'd rather be almost my best most of the time than my best 10% of the time and horrible the other 90%. My control is slowly coming in, and I'm placing my shots better. The biggest change has been in my upshots. I can now never turn my head and throw to the pin from around 200', and that has made all the difference in my game.

And really, throwing 350' with fairway drivers is really nice. I find myself hardly ever using that D on the course, to be honest. I was throwing 360' with Teebirds on the practice field before this change in form, but now I find myself not even having to work for 320', which is money. On tight courses, I'm not really breaking out my SOLFs anymore.

I should post another video.

Morgan Lasley
When life gives you lemons, stick them in the freezer for a few hours, then throw them back, 'cause they're like rocks, man.

I sort of agree with Aaron, but myself, I want the best form I can achieve. it won't be perfect, I won't throw 500', but I'd like to get the max out of myself.

If you want to do that, follow Blake's tips. I agree 100% with them. They'll add power and snap to your throws. I still think that you're getting distance from that OAT, but not seeing the throw, it's hard to say. I play with a guy who throws with a dramatic anhyzer throw and does fine, so there is nothing wrong with that form unless you want a different form. That may/may not add anything to your shot. It sounds like you've changed some things because you're saying 320' is much easier. That's a good sign of some snap.

Think about what you want to achieve and go from there. You can use your current form, get accuracy and play for years and become consistent and win. Or you can decide to spend months or years changing your form to get it right. If so you may or may not ever see the benefit from that. As Aaron said, 350' is a good distance if you can do it on demand.

I'm starting to get the OAT (and thus the anny) under control with the new form. It only creeps in if I'm really wailing on it. I'm throwing Teebirds, Gazelles, and TLs 350' on the practice field with pure hyzer. I've had a few anny throws with Eagles over 390' on the practice field. I'm not practicing or really playing with anything high-speed right now, though they are sitting in the bag waiting. Teebirds are doing great on the course.

The whole point in me changing form was to get snap. I started to equate snap with keeping my elbow high. In the last few days, I'm starting to get snap without such a high elbow, which was creating a lot of my torque issues.

My form is really in flux right now. I'm trying out a ton of little adjustments and we'll see what sticks. The main thing I've changed is that I'm pulling closer to my chest - which is what has blessed me with snap.

I'm still doing a really short and slow X-step. Anymore than that, and I get out of control (and have OAT and early-release issues). Once I feel like I can shape shots a little better and am controlling release angles better, I'll start working on getting my hips into it. Using the lower body is something I've never done in my form. Up until now, I was just strong-arming it. I've got to get those hips into it somehow. The whole timing of the opening of the hips is something that still eludes me. I understand in my head, separately, how it is supposed to work, but I haven't gotten from that to combining it with from the left pec to the right pec to the hit. It's a work in progress. I'm trying to rebuild from the hit back.

Morgan Lasley
When life gives you lemons, stick them in the freezer for a few hours, then throw them back, 'cause they're like rocks, man.

I'm about at the same stage as you're in now cmlasley. Doing similar things partially. See if you can get rid of the OAT and anny on the throws with full power by pinching harder on the disc with index and thumb before you throw. For the sake of practice forgetting the snap part you can go to full pinching power and if that eliminates OAT and unintentional annies great. Helped me a ton except that I don't need full power pinch and I don't lose wrist motion. If you get annies out then dropping pinching power pre throw gradually should help you to find the happy medium between keeping the disc oriented correctly and still having good snap.

Annies can come easier than from wrist and forearm being too loose by planting to the right of the vector you're running on and by having too loose sip muscles with the waist bending to the right. At stand still try twisting as far to the right as you can while being upright. That's the motion you need. Not on any other plane. OAT of the spine so to say is bad. With the notable exception of needing to bend the waist forward in the end for a nose down flight.

cmlasley wrote:The whole timing of the opening of the hips is something that still eludes me. I understand in my head, separately, how it is supposed to work, but I haven't gotten from that to combining it with from the left pec to the right pec to the hit. It's a work in progress. I'm trying to rebuild from the hit back.

Start with hip rotation. The whole point of the hip rotation is that it's your power base. You wind up top to bottom, but unwind bottom to top. Wind up = close your hips and reach back. Unwind = open the hips and lead the rotation of the torso / shoulders and *pull* the arm. You'll find that doing this, your arm will be close to the pec area before you even use a muscle in your arm. Once you're at this point (at the pec), it's where you utilize the pec drill. Explode into and beyond the hit. That's where all your arm power comes in - *after* you've sort of given yourself a rolling start by rotating the hips and torso.

You're using your powerful legs to start the rotation, your torso and shoulders to increase the power/speed of the rotation and your arm just needs to not screw up the speed and power you're building. That's why the grip is so touchy - not too hard - not too soft.

Good luck. Don't give up. Don't expect an impact on your game right away either - allow yourself time for your muscles to memorize your new actions.

black udder wrote:You wind up top to bottom, but unwind bottom to top. Wind up = close your hips and reach back. Unwind = open the hips and lead the rotation of the torso / shoulders and *pull* the arm.

I'm starting to get this when I throw from a standstill or with one step, but I'm having trouble understanding how it works with a run-up.

Morgan Lasley
When life gives you lemons, stick them in the freezer for a few hours, then throw them back, 'cause they're like rocks, man.

black udder wrote:You wind up top to bottom, but unwind bottom to top. Wind up = close your hips and reach back. Unwind = open the hips and lead the rotation of the torso / shoulders and *pull* the arm.

I'm starting to get this when I throw from a standstill or with one step, but I'm having trouble understanding how it works with a run-up.

Yeah, me too to some degree. When you do an x-step, you increase your speed and momentum, so you just need to work on your timing. It'll take time - accept that and you can still have lots of fun while improving