Endive Wombat:vegas_greaser: My job just announced that insurance is going up for tobacco users next year by $150 a month and gave all tobacco users 4 days to quit, so a bunch of people started bringing E-Cigs in and selling them to other employees. Then the company also announced that E-Cigs were also covered under the new rules, and that anyone using an E-Cig would also pay $150 more per month for insurance.Been a grumpy few weeks at the office.

Are they out of their farking minds? 4 days to quit? 4 days? I mean, I could understand 30-90 days...but 4 days? 4 days to quit using what is probably the most addictive substance most people will encounter in their life. I am going to guess that zero support was offered here too.

That is really unacceptable.

They do offer people a program to quit smoking and will pay for the first month of medication. After much outcry from affected employees, they have finally relented and gave us till Sept. 1 to become tobacco free or face the additional $150. I think what made it worse was the fact that the union employees don't pay a dime and can smoke as much as they like, while us non-union people pay for their benefits.

BraveNewCheneyWorld:The startup cost for your initial equipment is on par with several packs of cigarettes, but refills are a fraction of the price.

Actually my kit cost me 50 bucks used, it was regularly sold for $150.00 They (corporate whores) try to imply you have to replace the filters after about the equivilent of about a pack. You don't. A bottle of nicotene drops for 30 bucks will let you reuse the filters for like a year. I'm sure they'll figure it out and find a way to make the farking things out of something more biodegradable.

brantgoose:Why don't you just drop smoking and take up injecting heroin directly into your veins?

The tobacco industry doesn't care about tobacco. It's just a delvery-system for a drug. They don't care about the drug either. Any old drug will do, as long as it is addictive. Nicotene is addictive and comes from a plant that can be grown cheaply and picked by the nearest thing to slaves that the governments of Southern States will allow (which is wage-slaves--it took a Civil War but they finally clicked to the idea that wage-slaves and debt-farmers are cheaper than plantations and the other kind of slaves).

In short, everybody, including the e-cigarette manufacturers know and admit that e-cigarettes are the moral equivalent of crack pipes.

ONLY THE DRUGS THAT ARE PROFITABLE TO CORPORATIONS AND OUR MASTERS WHO OWN THEM AND RUN THEM MAY BE ALLOWED.

Once you get right down to brass tacks, tobacco is just crack for the people who used to be sold opium by the US government and the British Crown.

Remember this, smokers: you have nothing to lose but your chain-smoking. All the "cool" and "pleasure" has been sucked out of smoking and you now are just one tiny bit ahead of druggies shooting up--you don't have to search for an uncollapsed vein.

E-ciggs are crack pipes? Smokers are one notch below heroin addicts? Your one of the few people I would blow my smoke right in the face and laugh. Farking idiot.

ECF is a great resource, although the amount of info is like a phone book. People seem to like the Ego C and Ego Twist a lot for a starter set. Get some clearo tanks (a lot of folks really dig the Kanger Protank and some extra coil heads, which are dirt cheap. This setup is essentially foolproof and gives a lot of people really good results. If you decide that you want something more durable and with longer battery life, you can go to a "mod" that will cost a bit more, but will give you better overall performance in the long run. The Provari and the Reos mods are both well loved depending on how you want to delivery the juice to the atomizer or cartomizer. The Provari is a tube device like the Ego that takes tanks, cartos, atomizers or whatever else. The Reo actually has a bottle incident that you fill with juice and just put an atomizer or carto on top and go all day.

A lot of people turn this into a hobby. I'm not one of them. I just wanted to quit smoking and it is working extremely well for me.

As for juice, Pink Spot vapors is a great place to start, particularly for fruity stuff. They have regular availability, great service, and great product. If you like tobaccos you can't go wrong with some Copper Creek House blend.

HighZoolander:That's great that you would do that - I certainly appreciate when smokers are considerate, and I know other non-smokers do too. If everyone had done that there would be far fewer problems. Unfortunately there are so many inconsiderate smokers, including even some who would happily even blow smoke into the face of asthmatic (I've known several), that they ruined things for everyone. And if the government can make noise ordinances or fine people for having too much garbage on their property, I think it's not a different thing to put restrictions on smoking (when and where it's a nuisance to other people; I don't think a blanket ban is reasonable).

Those aren't close analogies. Closer would be making all bars stop having bands b/c someone walking by doesn't like having to occasionally hear music. You're ignoring the fact that there are plenty of anti smokers out there that aren't pushing bans b/c they care about health, or even the smell of tobacco, they're doing it b/c they are miserable people that want to force others to do what they think they should. Alcohol probation is a closer analogy.

It wont be too long before these devices are found to be very dangerous. Much of the anti smoking hype was funded by big pharma, so you'd buy their pills and patches and such. They don't like competition, and they'll get their more unscrupulous buddies in academia to get some studies done soon.

ununcle:ColdFusion: I smoke, and if you're a smoker who flicks away butts, I don't know what's wrong with you.

I save my butts. When I feel like saving a few bucks, I wring out the leftover tobacco from them and roll my own. Can make a pack of handrolls from my leftovers for less than a dollar. Also shuts up the "zomg you smokers all litter" herp derp when they see you tuck that butt in your pack after putting it out.

Your doing it wrong. Instead of saving a "few" bucks you should cut the cost of your habit by 70% and roll your own. Not only do I only spend 15 bucks a carton (as opposed to 60), I don't have to smoke gross sticky non filtered second hand tobacco. Less chemicals as well.

Well, I tried rolling my own for a while, but it just became too time consuming to do it all the time. So, I might do about two weeks on a regular pack, and then one week rolling my own. When I feel REALLY lazy, I pipe smoke the leftovers.

ColdFusion:ununcle: ColdFusion: I smoke, and if you're a smoker who flicks away butts, I don't know what's wrong with you.

I save my butts. When I feel like saving a few bucks, I wring out the leftover tobacco from them and roll my own. Can make a pack of handrolls from my leftovers for less than a dollar. Also shuts up the "zomg you smokers all litter" herp derp when they see you tuck that butt in your pack after putting it out.

Your doing it wrong. Instead of saving a "few" bucks you should cut the cost of your habit by 70% and roll your own. Not only do I only spend 15 bucks a carton (as opposed to 60), I don't have to smoke gross sticky non filtered second hand tobacco. Less chemicals as well.

Well, I tried rolling my own for a while, but it just became too time consuming to do it all the time. So, I might do about two weeks on a regular pack, and then one week rolling my own. When I feel REALLY lazy, I pipe smoke the leftovers.

Should also add that my packs are incredibly cheap compared to most people here. I pay about $2.75 a pack because I buy from a little drive-through tobacco shop that sells Pall Mall Menthols for about $3.25, and always has a "50 cents off" coupon on the wrapper.

ColdFusion:ColdFusion: ununcle: ColdFusion: I smoke, and if you're a smoker who flicks away butts, I don't know what's wrong with you.

I save my butts. When I feel like saving a few bucks, I wring out the leftover tobacco from them and roll my own. Can make a pack of handrolls from my leftovers for less than a dollar. Also shuts up the "zomg you smokers all litter" herp derp when they see you tuck that butt in your pack after putting it out.

Your doing it wrong. Instead of saving a "few" bucks you should cut the cost of your habit by 70% and roll your own. Not only do I only spend 15 bucks a carton (as opposed to 60), I don't have to smoke gross sticky non filtered second hand tobacco. Less chemicals as well.

Well, I tried rolling my own for a while, but it just became too time consuming to do it all the time. So, I might do about two weeks on a regular pack, and then one week rolling my own. When I feel REALLY lazy, I pipe smoke the leftovers.

Should also add that my packs are incredibly cheap compared to most people here. I pay about $2.75 a pack because I buy from a little drive-through tobacco shop that sells Pall Mall Menthols for about $3.25, and always has a "50 cents off" coupon on the wrapper.

I have an electric cigarette machine and one of the ones with the lever on it. Payed nothing for the electric,$30 for the other. $2 for a carton's worth of tubes,$10 for a big bag of KY best tobacco. Takes like ten minutes to roll most of a box of tubes.

I've barked at a few people I've seen littering. Fortunately it never turned violent, but I've gotten reactions anywhere from "I'm sorry, I'll pick up my shiat" to "What the fark are you talking about?"

I've also gotten some weird looks because when I go hiking I always carry a plastic grocery bag to pack out any of my own trash and sometimes I pick up trash left behind by other people just so I won't see it the next time I'm there. I once walked out of a park at 8 AM with about a case worth of beer bottles in the plastic bag.

In retrospect, I should have pretended to be drunk and staggered to my car after I threw them in the trash bin.

Pete_T_Mann:HighZoolander: That's great that you would do that - I certainly appreciate when smokers are considerate, and I know other non-smokers do too. If everyone had done that there would be far fewer problems. Unfortunately there are so many inconsiderate smokers, including even some who would happily even blow smoke into the face of asthmatic (I've known several), that they ruined things for everyone. And if the government can make noise ordinances or fine people for having too much garbage on their property, I think it's not a different thing to put restrictions on smoking (when and where it's a nuisance to other people; I don't think a blanket ban is reasonable).

Those aren't close analogies. Closer would be making all bars stop having bands b/c someone walking by doesn't like having to occasionally hear music. You're ignoring the fact that there are plenty of anti smokers out there that aren't pushing bans b/c they care about health, or even the smell of tobacco, they're doing it b/c they are miserable people that want to force others to do what they think they should. Alcohol probation is a closer analogy.

It wont be too long before these devices are found to be very dangerous. Much of the anti smoking hype was funded by big pharma, so you'd buy their pills and patches and such. They don't like competition, and they'll get their more unscrupulous buddies in academia to get some studies done soon.

I'm not sure that's a close enough analogy - since there are far more smokers than bars/bands. Maybe closer to make the comparison that bars aren't allowed operate in residential neighborhoods because of the noise/traffic. Whatever analogy floats your boat, but the point is that if something is a nuisance, it's not unreasonable to restrict it to the point that it's no longer a nuisance (and/or a reasonable compromise can be found).

I think the alcohol thing has as much to do with public drunkenness - not because of the drunk, but because drunk people are usually loud and out of control, and the ban is used to prevent problems that everyone has seen before and is sick of dealing with.

I'd be surprised if there are really so many miserable people who just get off on controlling other people's habits, that sounds to me like a myth perpetuated by rude smokers to help them justify doing whatever they want.

I've been vaping for almost three years and have helped several people transition from smoking to vaping by suggesting specific products and showing them how to use them. Smoking is definitely easier and more convenient, but vaping is definitely less harmful to one's health.

And I never tell anyone that vaping is harmless. It's just a great tobacco harm reduction alternative.

DubyaHater:I don't know much about the e-cigs and I certainly DNRTFA. I would think an e-cig habit is rather cost prohibitive. My guess is a pack of e-cigs cost 10x a pack of cigarettes.

Buying a good vaporizer has a fair amount of up front cost, so short term, it's a lot more than buying cigs.

But most of that is for stuff you will re-use. (2 rechargeable batteries, a battery charger, and some sort of tank or cartomizer, plus a bottle of juice.) Long term, vaping is a ton cheaper than smoking. One thing that comes up is that the more you smoke, the faster you hit the "break even" point. If you smoke 3 packs a day and quit, you save a lot more money every day, so it doesn't take long to save the cost of the e-cig setup. If you only smoke a 1/2 pack a day, it takes a lot longer to reach that point.

But honestly, the money you save is 4th or so in line when looking at the benefits. Health, not smelling like a smoker, being able to vape in places where you can't smoke without bothering people, those are all more important IMO.

Anyone wanting to get started should know there is a bit of a learning curve. The best place to go for info is a local vape shop, but if you don't have one of those, I recommend http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com

I smoked for over 30 years and was smoking 3 packs a day before I started vaping. Now I haven't had a cig in almost 2 years, and while I still vape all the time, I've gotten off the nicotine completely.

ElizaDoolittle:I wish I could quit nic, but I can't. You betcha I've tried, many times.

When I started vaping, the juice they sold me was 24 nic. That wasn't enough to get me off the cigs, and I had to buy some 30 nic juice. Once I did that, quitting cigs was easy. I didn't use the 30 nic for long. 24 would work as my "all day" and I'd use 30 when I really craved a cig, like right after meals. Before long, even after meals I could stay with the 24. After a few months on the 24, I bought some 18, and I mixed enough 18/24 together to last a few days (so I was doing 21 as a transition to the 18.) Then I did the 18 for awhile, and eventually moved to 12 (again, mixing 12/18 together for a transition.) I kept doing that, cutting down a little at a time, and now I've been vaping 0 nic for several months. Cutting down slowly worked for me. I'm still vaping, just without the nic.

ColdFusion:Should also add that my packs are incredibly cheap compared to most people here. I pay about $2.75 a pack because I buy from a little drive-through tobacco shop that sells Pall Mall Menthols for about $3.25, and always has a "50 cents off" coupon on the wrapper.

You sound poor - and black. Pall Mall Menthols? Really?

I swore I would quit when they started charging $2 per pack. I did, but it took me a few years after that.

Z-clipped:AirForceVet: I just don't want it around me until it is determined safe for those who are not partaking.

Your skepticism is logical, but I think you're taking it a little too far to be reasonable. Evidence (and general scientific rationale) points to e-cigs being pretty harmless to bystanders. Not that I think there shouldn't be continued study and regulations on what can go into the liquid, but for the time being, I think they represent a more-than-acceptable risk if they mean a significant reduction in conventional smoking.

Cool. Point taken. And after reading more on Google from more independent studies and articles about e-cigarettes, it still seems a mixed bag. This USA Today article plays it both ways, for example. But, as long as somebody doesn't vape next to me in an elevator or while I'm eating in a restaurant, have at it.

gfid:ColdFusion: Should also add that my packs are incredibly cheap compared to most people here. I pay about $2.75 a pack because I buy from a little drive-through tobacco shop that sells Pall Mall Menthols for about $3.25, and always has a "50 cents off" coupon on the wrapper.

You sound poor - and black. Pall Mall Menthols? Really?

You sound like an arse. You sound poor - and black. Really? Was there any reason to inject race into this conversation?

ElizaDoolittle:gfid: ColdFusion: Should also add that my packs are incredibly cheap compared to most people here. I pay about $2.75 a pack because I buy from a little drive-through tobacco shop that sells Pall Mall Menthols for about $3.25, and always has a "50 cents off" coupon on the wrapper.

You sound poor - and black. Pall Mall Menthols? Really?

You sound like an arse. You sound poor - and black. Really? Was there any reason to inject race into this conversation?

AirForceVet:I just don't want it around me until it is determined safe for those who are not partaking.

So your stance is to assume it's dangerous, and until it is proven 100% safe, keep it away from you?

Can you show any evidence at all that they aren't safe? There are a whole lot of people vaping, and so far, zero evidence that it's causing any health issues. You can't name anyone that's gotten sick from it or died from it, but your assumption is "Must not be safe".

I suppose that with your insistence on 100% safetly, you also avoid things like automobiles and bathrooms?

JuggleGeek:AirForceVet: I just don't want it around me until it is determined safe for those who are not partaking.

So your stance is to assume it's dangerous, and until it is proven 100% safe, keep it away from you?

My stance has always been not to share it in enclosed rooms with others in it with you. I don't want nicotine in my body by any means nor do others. The continuing assumption by those who want to use electronic cigarettes freely in replying to my comments has been either to claim it's safe without facts or to compare the vapor to common items like scented candles.

It's delivering nicotine to your body via the lungs. I'm not comfortable on its secondhand vapor. You haven't proved it's not emitting nicotine to those in the surrounding area. I'm not cool with you assuming it's safe for me only for your convenience so you don't have to to to someplace else.

Whatever happened to asking strangers and/or friends around you,"Mind if I vape?" If they don't, do. If they do, don't or move someplace else.

I (and a lot of other vapers) try to be considerate of others and restrict our vaping to normal smoking areas. Too many people victims (or perpetrators) of FUD and willing to cause trouble and put vaping and vapers in a bad light. That still doesn't stop me from sneaking a vape in a bathroom, just as smokers will sneak a butt in the stall.

I'm not comfortable on its secondhand vapor. You haven't proved it's not emitting nicotine to those in the surrounding area.

I don't think it would ever be possible to "prove it's 100% safe" with pretty much anything. However, if you can't point to any evidence that it *is* dangerous, that says something. Personally, I do avoid vaping if someone asks me not to do it, but until they ask, I assume it isn't a problem. I've had very, very few people ask me not to do it.

And again, do you avoid automobiles and bathrooms? Those aren't 100% safe either. Automobiles have been the #1 cause of accidental death over the past few decades, but I suspect you still drive.

AirForceVet:JuggleGeek: AirForceVet: I just don't want it around me until it is determined safe for those who are not partaking.

So your stance is to assume it's dangerous, and until it is proven 100% safe, keep it away from you?

My stance has always been not to share it in enclosed rooms with others in it with you. I don't want nicotine in my body by any means nor do others. The continuing assumption by those who want to use electronic cigarettes freely in replying to my comments has been either to claim it's safe without facts or to compare the vapor to common items like scented candles.

It's delivering nicotine to your body via the lungs. I'm not comfortable on its secondhand vapor. You haven't proved it's not emitting nicotine to those in the surrounding area. I'm not cool with you assuming it's safe for me only for your convenience so you don't have to to to someplace else.

Whatever happened to asking strangers and/or friends around you,"Mind if I vape?" If they don't, do. If they do, don't or move someplace else.

If you care to read about a study conducted which addresses your specific concerns:

Clearstream Air StudyIn December 2011, Aaron Frazier, Director of the Utah Vapers began consulting with FlavourArt in Milan Italy to develop research on the electronic cigarette in ways that had yet to be performed by anyone around the world. It was through this relationship that Clearstream Air was born. The purpose of this study was to identify and quantify the chemicals released on a closed environment from the use of an electronic cigarette.

Study ResultsThe study has now been completed, peer reviewed and accepted for the 2012 meeting of SRNT in Helsinki. The experiment concludes that within the limits of the observed parameters, has underlined that passive vapor does not produce detectable amounts of toxic and carcinogenic substances in the air of an enclosed space. You can view the study here: http://clearstream.flavourart.it/site/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/CSA_ I taEng.pdf

AirForceVet:I don't want nicotine in my body by any means nor do others.

Do you think those small doses of nicotine are bad for you? Nicotine is not the thing in cigarettes that causes health problems, only in large doses does it kill you. In fact, in small doses as found in vapor and cigarettes it has been linked to a significant reduction in the risk of Alzheimer's and dementia. It's sort of like alcohol, a huge dose will kill you, but in small doses, there are benefits.

HighZoolander:I'm not sure that's a close enough analogy - since there are far more smokers than bars/bands. Maybe closer to make the comparison that bars aren't allowed operate in residential neighborhoods because of the noise/traffic. Whatever analogy floats your boat, but the point is that if something is a nuisance, it's not unreasonable to restrict it to the point that it's no longer a nuisance (and/or a reasonable compromise can be found).

I think the alcohol thing has as much to do with public drunkenness - not because of the drunk, but because drunk people are usually loud and out of control, and the ban is used to prevent problems that everyone has seen before and is sick of dealing with.

I'd be surprised if there are really so many miserable people who just get off on controlling other people's habits, that sounds to me like a myth perpetuated by rude smokers to help them justify doing whatever they want.

I was referring more to the fact that many cities have instituted ordinances that you can't smoke in bars, and usually the people who are vocally trying to put them in place are people that never even go to bars in the first place. As far as the nuisance part, there isn't much chance of a reasonable compromise with the militant anti smokers, and they are the ones that will be bringing the issue up.

As far as drunkness, the end result is the same. And whatever the reason is its just an excuse used for the gov't to step in, assume control and make money off fines, jail time, etc, for something that really isnt a problem for most.

There may be more miserable people than you think, especially since nowadays people don't seem to feel they should have to deal with any behavior they don't want to, and whining about anything has been empowered, instead of just dealing with problems and making allowances for others. If they banned every behavior I found annoying... well things would be quite different. The anti smokers that campaign are the main culprits, though, and they are very vocal and relentless. Most normal people really aren't that concerned with smoking one way or the other, and unfortunately are apathetic about the gov't sticking its nose into another area.

Lernaeus:We figured out (read: we found a website that explained) how to modify them for alternate use. It's made the last few concerts more fun and paranoia-free.

Now to work on a sonic screwdriver mod ...

And expect this to be the tactic to get them banned or restricted in the more puritanical red states (the ones that still haven't legalised MMJ)--hell, the state of Indiana is pretty much using the exact tack of noting they can be used for vaping marijuana fluidextracts to try to get them essentially classified as drug paraphenalia. :P

"Wouldn't nicotine be in suspension in the vapor coming off e-cigs? It is a poison in strong enough doses. Nicotine can be used as a pesticide. Would it be okay for someone to spray bug killer everywhere they want just because it's not smoke?"

Dryknife you look farking retarded. You actually think you can absorb enough nicotine to mean a damn thing off second hand smoke? Good luck catching a buzz off second hand smoke: it's never gonna happen.

AirForceVet:Z-clipped: AirForceVet: I just don't want it around me until it is determined safe for those who are not partaking.

Your skepticism is logical, but I think you're taking it a little too far to be reasonable. Evidence (and general scientific rationale) points to e-cigs being pretty harmless to bystanders. Not that I think there shouldn't be continued study and regulations on what can go into the liquid, but for the time being, I think they represent a more-than-acceptable risk if they mean a significant reduction in conventional smoking.

Cool. Point taken. And after reading more on Google from more independent studies and articles about e-cigarettes, it still seems a mixed bag. This USA Today article plays it both ways, for example. But, as long as somebody doesn't vape next to me in an elevator or while I'm eating in a restaurant, have at it.

Point taken. After reading more on google about carbon dioxide I'm sure you'll understand that most people in restaurants and elevators don't want to be around you.

Blazncheetah:I wish this thread had more recommendations on e-cig models and liquids.I probably should go to an e-cig forums but having opinions outside of one helps too.

As much as it has been ragged on in this thread, I'm very happy with my Blu Premium 100. The liquid used in the cartridges is manufactured by Johnson Creek. The Premium 100 batteries last longer than the standard Blu batteries, the device has the right hand feel for me (40 year smoker here), the pack is the same size as a Marlboro 100's pack and the whole thing recharges quickly, using the same micro USB charger as my smart phones do. I like most of the flavors, with my favorites being the vanilla and coffee flavors.

For the person that asked how safe is it heating plastic - the Blu cartridge only has a vinyl exterior coating. The combination cartridge/atomizer is metal. The vinyl coating is simply for comfort.

Not only does my company prefer use of electronic cigarettes over the analog models, they allow use of them in the building. One of the lovely ladies from the facilities group saw my Blu pack on my desk and graciously provided me with an ashtray from one of the store rooms so I don't have to have my in-use digital cigarette rolling around loose on my desk.

The My Little Pony Killer:Do you smokers know what chemicals they're using in those e-cigs? Sure, it seems healthier because there's no smoke, but you're still willingly inhaling carcinogens just to stick it to us non-smokers. That, to me, is hilarious.

You're misinformed. Also, I don't use e-cigs to "stick it to" anybody. I do it because it is a vast risk reduction to cigarettes. 20 year smoker switched to e-cigs overnight, over 2 years ago. A $50 bottle of 12 mg juice lasts me about 1.5 months. I am hurting no one. I feel so much better, my lungs are awesome, and I smell great. There's no conclusive evidence of harm with e-cig use - for the user or for those who are nearby - but it is a young phenomenon, and I fully support further research.

dryknife:Wouldn't nicotine be in suspension in the vapor coming off e-cigs? It is a poison in strong enough doses. Nicotine can be used as a pesticide. Would it be okay for someone to spray bug killer everywhere they want just because it's not smoke?

Nicotine from the vapor does not affect you, if you are not drawing from the e-cigarette; as far as any studies can find, there are no public health issues with second-hand vapor. In fact, as I mentioned, there's nothing that supports a risk to the user. Again, I fully support further testing.

Nicotine itself, especially in the levels of the juices, are very, very low anyway. Rather harmless. Addictive, yes. Carcinogen? No. Affects on the cardiovascular system? A little controversial, some say it inhibits .. well, here's a quick read. Here's a video for another study. Here's a study discussing cell death that is *far* less than tobacco cigarettes. Here is a study that says e-cigarettes are less addictive than tobacco cigarettes.

J. Frank Parnell:Just no one tell them 'e-cigs' produce a lot of dioxins. Huffing on hot plastic is perfectly safe.

Prove it. My rig is Pyrex glass and metal, with a silicone thread. My other rig which has plastic tank doesn't get hot. I'd like to see more about this melting plastic terror you are discussing. Maybe shoddy gas station stuff... I don't know.

Anyway, there are a lot of resources to learn more. I can't stress it enough, though: I want more studies - long-term, peer-reviewed, clinical, well-funded studies. Until then, the consequences of smoking, or being inflicted with the smoke of, a tobacco cigarette that produces a toxic tar and contains countless chemicals are clear. The consequences of using a vapor system with a handful of known ingredients, none of which have known harmful properties*, that has improved my life immensely? Yeah, I'll go with that.

*One concern is Diacetyl. However, you go with vendors you trust - they have chemists on staff, they avoid using flavors with Diacetyl. Few, if any, US vendors have Diacetyl in their juices, so it's really not a big deal. More fear-mongering, as far as I can tell.

Pesky_Humans:ECF is a great resource, although the amount of info is like a phone book. People seem to like the Ego C and Ego Twist a lot for a starter set. Get some clearo tanks (a lot of folks really dig the Kanger Protank and some extra coil heads, which are dirt cheap. This setup is essentially foolproof and gives a lot of people really good results. If you decide that you want something more durable and with longer battery life, you can go to a "mod" that will cost a bit more, but will give you better overall performance in the long run. The Provari and the Reos mods are both well loved depending on how you want to delivery the juice to the atomizer or cartomizer. The Provari is a tube device like the Ego that takes tanks, cartos, atomizers or whatever else. The Reo actually has a bottle incident that you fill with juice and just put an atomizer or carto on top and go all day.

A lot of people turn this into a hobby. I'm not one of them. I just wanted to quit smoking and it is working extremely well for me.

As for juice, Pink Spot vapors is a great place to start, particularly for fruity stuff. They have regular availability, great service, and great product. If you like tobaccos you can't go wrong with some Copper Creek House blend.

I was researching the Kanger today and may dump my current clearomizers for this. I'm tired of the leaking and wasting the juice. The technology is changing so rapidly it's nearly impossible for a noob to keep up though and it puts them off. But I like the fact the Kanger has a Pyrex tank and stainless/brass innards. Plus it's rebuildable and I'm getting away from the disposable varieties in favor of longevity and a reduction in pieces. I got tired of buying tanks and whatnot then being disappointed when they failed prematurely.

I started with the first iterations, the thin 510 Joyetech style about 4 years ago and worked up from there and along the way had some real doozies, they were that bad.. I too am not a hobbyist but I find it very enjoyable and a bonus that I can do this, satisfy a hideous addiction and limit at least one small bit of bad stuff I ingest and save some $ in the process.

I did the research and I know exactly whats in the juice I buy, EcoPure. It is pricey but the tobacco flavor just appeals to me so much and sadly they are discontinuing it in the USA...bastards. There's something about the smell of fresh cut tobacco that I find appealing. It's heavy VG, but I cut it with some really good Blueberry, only 20% PG that I also know exactly the composition.

Unfortunately so many of the Chinese companies that produce juice and hardware just flat out suck.

SecretAgentWoman:I'd like to get my sister an e-cig starter kit, but I have no clue where to start.

A local vape shop is ideal, but the ECF forums are the next best thing. There is a lerning curve, and asking some questions on the forums will help a lot. It's a very supportive crowd, because almost everyone there is an ex smoker who switched to vaping. There are some location-specific sub forums, and those may help you find a vape shop in your area.

Macular Degenerate:There is nothing "e" about "e-cigarettes". It's just a battery powered vaporizer. Vaporizing a highly addictive drug. How this is farking legal and pot is still outlawed, I have no idea.

The "E" stands for "electronic." You do not even need to have nicotine in the device. Many people that use ecigs to quit work down to 0% nicotine, and use them purely to satisfy a psychological addiction until they quit entirely.

I realize you must be trolling, or extremely stupid, but I thought I would clarify that.

Since people are throwing e-cig companies around, I'd like to throw V2's hat in the ring. V2cigs.com. I'm not entirely sure how they compare quality-wise, but they have a pretty decent warrantee policy that (atleast when I was buying my first e-cig a year ago) was the best I came across. If your battery stops working, and you've bought atleast one package of carts/other product from their website in the last 90 days, you were covered. 90 days may not seem like a lot to a non-smoker, but as any smoker that depends on an e-cig can tell you, it's a farking lifetime.

"Pretty soon I'm starting a new job and will actually have some cash so I think I might get a Darwin for home use."

I would suggest looking at something like the Provari, or VV Reo Grand, over the Darwin. The batteries are replaceable, rather than built into the unit. Once you are in that price range, there are options that are likely better for you than the Darwin.