Comments on: “Why doesn’t anyone stump for Aaron to be booted out of Cooperstown?”http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/12/28/why-doesnt-anyone-stump-for-aaron-to-be-booted-out-of-cooperstown/
Baseball. Baseball. And then a bit more baseball.Tue, 31 Mar 2015 18:46:03 +0000hourly1http://wordpress.com/By: stercuilus65http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/12/28/why-doesnt-anyone-stump-for-aaron-to-be-booted-out-of-cooperstown/comment-page-2/#comment-242817
Tue, 03 Jan 2012 08:09:12 +0000http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=104649#comment-242817More thinly disguised Bonds apologist BS. Whatever…
]]>By: pjmarn6http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/12/28/why-doesnt-anyone-stump-for-aaron-to-be-booted-out-of-cooperstown/comment-page-1/#comment-242553
Sun, 01 Jan 2012 23:49:26 +0000http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=104649#comment-242553If Hank Aaron or any one else was using stimulants or drugs than the whole idea of a Hall of Fame is a joke. There is no more national past time and no more idols to look up to and no more players to hold up as models or records to be broken.
They are all bogus. I like the ponies. There is a system to be studied and statistics to be used and one can make an extremely good living off the nags and the reason is that they are clean. Once the nags are doped and races are fixed, then you have to find another way to make money.
For instance 30 years ago at Calder Race Track in Maryland, once a day every day during the summer season the longest long shot won. You can go back and check. If you put $1000 on each of the nine races on the longest long shot and say a 25 to one came in then you got $25,000 less $8,000 and walked home with $17,000 in your pocket. You just couldn’t lose. Now if their rules weren’t so tight that all the horses had the chance to be tested and all winners were tested, that type of betting would never work.
But any time one wants to make money on the nags, its there because the races are clean. Not like baseball.
]]>By: jbrashguitaristhttp://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/12/28/why-doesnt-anyone-stump-for-aaron-to-be-booted-out-of-cooperstown/comment-page-1/#comment-242038
Fri, 30 Dec 2011 15:33:43 +0000http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=104649#comment-242038Also I was referring to Coca Cola using actual cocaine not caffeine. http://www.snopes.com/cokelore/cocaine.asp will show it had cocaine in it until 1929.
]]>By: jbrashguitaristhttp://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/12/28/why-doesnt-anyone-stump-for-aaron-to-be-booted-out-of-cooperstown/comment-page-1/#comment-242036
Fri, 30 Dec 2011 15:32:24 +0000http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=104649#comment-242036Fair rebuttal – however how would you then rebut the point of no relief pitchers and no closers at the time he played ball? Compare complete games of today’s leading pitchers to then (Cy Young had 749) to today’s pitchers which it’s a monumental achievement for them to get 5 or 6 a year. He DID hit most of his home runs on starting pitchers late in games… that is fact. So with that in mind he wouldn’t be facing those pitchers in today’s game thus proving the game is harder today than it was then. Ultimate point: It was a different game when they roided and to compare the today’s players to the era of those guys is a bit needing an asterisk with or WITHOUT steroids.
]]>By: bigleagueshttp://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/12/28/why-doesnt-anyone-stump-for-aaron-to-be-booted-out-of-cooperstown/comment-page-2/#comment-241981
Fri, 30 Dec 2011 03:27:22 +0000http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=104649#comment-241981MC Chaos says:

I’m steppin to da stump
to bounce da chump,
back to ’54
kickin and swearin, yeah
say goodbye Hank Aaron,
and if its all the same
share the shame of exile
from the Hall of Fame
with Roger and Barry.
but don’t worry, we
keep your careers on file
to compare and compile
reference and revile.
compare and compile
reference and revile.

]]>By: bozosforallhttp://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/12/28/why-doesnt-anyone-stump-for-aaron-to-be-booted-out-of-cooperstown/comment-page-1/#comment-241920
Fri, 30 Dec 2011 01:14:52 +0000http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=104649#comment-241920Wrong. Coca Cola took out the caffeine in 1903, when Babe Ruth was really still a “babe” (8 years old). So much for your idiotic claim.

And Babe Ruth did plenty of barnstorming, hitting against black pitching, and doing quite well, so the stupid claims of how he benefitted from there not being black pitchers in the majors is vastly overblown.

]]>By: jbrashguitaristhttp://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/12/28/why-doesnt-anyone-stump-for-aaron-to-be-booted-out-of-cooperstown/comment-page-1/#comment-241772
Thu, 29 Dec 2011 19:48:46 +0000http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=104649#comment-241772I’ve often wondered about the legitimacy of keeping someone from the hall for steroids. Think of this for a minute: Not ONLY do we have reason to believe the “greats” like Hank Aaron did in fact take amphetamines, but we know that the game was different for them. Babe Ruth hit over HALF of his home runs in his career AFTER the 7th inning. In the game in today’s world he would’ve been hitting on a reliever or worst case a closer. That closer wouldn’t have been a white guy it would be Mariano freaking Rivera.

Not only that… Babe Ruth was a known Coca Cola drinker – he supposedly drank Coca Cola throughout games. At the time he did so Coca Cola featured REAL coke – and I don’t mean soda. Would that have given him a jolt? What if Albert Pujols takes a shot of Coke on a tired starter in the 8th inning every game?

I’m not saying cheaters should be rewarded – but I AM saying the game was different when they were juicing, and if everyone was doing it – oh well. It’s an era – just like the era of all whites was an era.

]]>By: Old Gatorhttp://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/12/28/why-doesnt-anyone-stump-for-aaron-to-be-booted-out-of-cooperstown/comment-page-1/#comment-241573
Thu, 29 Dec 2011 05:01:24 +0000http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=104649#comment-241573When Bonds becomes eligible for the Hall of Fame
He’ll get called asshole.
That never happened to
Pablo Picasso…..

(with apologies to Jonathan Richman)

]]>By: lostsokhttp://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/12/28/why-doesnt-anyone-stump-for-aaron-to-be-booted-out-of-cooperstown/comment-page-1/#comment-241528
Thu, 29 Dec 2011 02:20:26 +0000http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=104649#comment-241528This articles seems superficial and tossed-off. C’mon, don’t waste our time. If you have a point, take some time and make it. Lazy writing…
]]>By: Kevin S.http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/12/28/why-doesnt-anyone-stump-for-aaron-to-be-booted-out-of-cooperstown/comment-page-1/#comment-241435
Wed, 28 Dec 2011 23:20:04 +0000http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=104649#comment-241435Again, saying that greenies just help give guys a little boost for the games A) completely underscores the effect greenies have on the human body, and B) underscores the importance of getting into games and being alert during them.

Steroids allow you to work out harder, certainly, but the body and strength alteration are almost predominantly in the upper body (I think it’s something like 80/20 in that regard). Both home-run and pitching power is generated in the legs. Just because guys look bigger doesn’t mean they can necessarily hit the ball farther.

]]>By: Kevin S.http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/12/28/why-doesnt-anyone-stump-for-aaron-to-be-booted-out-of-cooperstown/comment-page-1/#comment-241432
Wed, 28 Dec 2011 23:16:23 +0000http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=104649#comment-241432I’d like to say it’s mind-boggling that guys like you exist who ignore the studies showing that the impact of steroids on baseball performance ranges from unknown to negligible and the impact of expansion, small parks, tight balls and small strike zones on offense (these four facts fit the offensive spike better than the “Steroid Era” does), but sadly I realize that a sizable number of baseball fans have the emotional range of a five y.o.

As for Bonds, yeah, he used, and I’ve had no problems presuming that for quite some time. What I still refuse to acknowledge is that his usage makes him any dirtier than any other cheater in baseball’s history, including the many cheaters currently in the HOF.

]]>By: sfm073http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/12/28/why-doesnt-anyone-stump-for-aaron-to-be-booted-out-of-cooperstown/comment-page-1/#comment-241430
Wed, 28 Dec 2011 23:15:24 +0000http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=104649#comment-241430I personally don’t think ped users should be banned from the HOF. But comparing peds to greenies is kind of silly. Steroids physically alters your body and strength. Greenies just help give guys a little boost for the games. Just completely different to me.
]]>By: yahmulehttp://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/12/28/why-doesnt-anyone-stump-for-aaron-to-be-booted-out-of-cooperstown/comment-page-1/#comment-241427
Wed, 28 Dec 2011 23:09:25 +0000http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=104649#comment-241427It’s mind boggling that guys like you still exist. When did you finally admit Bonds was dirty, last year?
]]>By: Kevin S.http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/12/28/why-doesnt-anyone-stump-for-aaron-to-be-booted-out-of-cooperstown/comment-page-1/#comment-241407
Wed, 28 Dec 2011 22:41:46 +0000http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=104649#comment-241407No, I don’t, actually – amphetamines have had a more measurable effect on performance than steroids have. Seriously, while the most evidence anybody has ever provided for the impact of steroids on baseball is “But teh homerz!” there is actually significant research out there indicating they actually have had minimal effect on offense. Try starting at http://steroids-and-baseball.com/

Actually, baseball wasn’t way better when half a dozen shortstops were banging 35+ homers a season, because that never happened. In fact, only twice did even two shortstops hit at least 35 homers in a season, and A-Rod is the only post-strike shortstop to do it more than once. But hey, wild exaggeration never hurt anybody’s point, right?

I guess baseball was awful in 1971, when Hank Aaron had his career year at the tender age of 37, right? Or when he had a personal top-five season two years later, at age 39? Players have always had anomalous spikes at times we wouldn’t expect them. Obviously, those recent ones came under greater scrutiny because of the flagellation applied to the steroid era, but does it make sense to simply chalk all of those up to steroids when we know that tighter balls, tighter walls and tighter strike zones were all having noticeable effects on offense as well? And I don’t know about you, but I actually think it’s awesome when somebody who by all rights should be done puts together an incredible season late in his career. Randomness makes things more exciting.

]]>By: bozosforallhttp://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/12/28/why-doesnt-anyone-stump-for-aaron-to-be-booted-out-of-cooperstown/comment-page-1/#comment-241403
Wed, 28 Dec 2011 22:39:36 +0000http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=104649#comment-241403Steroids were first invented right around the time that Aaron’s HR numbers jumped dramatically. Who’s to say that his “greenies” weren’t really first-generation steroids?
]]>By: yahmulehttp://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/12/28/why-doesnt-anyone-stump-for-aaron-to-be-booted-out-of-cooperstown/comment-page-1/#comment-241364
Wed, 28 Dec 2011 22:02:13 +0000http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=104649#comment-241364As is the assertion that steroids are comparable to pep pills, but you applaud that poor comparison, right?

Nah, Davidoff and Craig and the other Bonds apologists are totally correct. Baseball was way better when guys had absurd career years @ 39 and half a dozen shortstops were banging 35+ HR a season.

]]>By: Kevin S.http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/12/28/why-doesnt-anyone-stump-for-aaron-to-be-booted-out-of-cooperstown/comment-page-1/#comment-241338
Wed, 28 Dec 2011 21:15:08 +0000http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=104649#comment-241338What, because I gave you first-hand knowledge that not all stimulants are created equal, and it hurt your little feelings that someone told you that you were wrong? Hey, I’m wrong here plenty of times, and people certainly let me know when it happens, but I absolutely know what I’m talking about on this subject, and the idea that greenies = coffee or energies drinks is supremely uninformed.
]]>By: sasquash20http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/12/28/why-doesnt-anyone-stump-for-aaron-to-be-booted-out-of-cooperstown/comment-page-1/#comment-241327
Wed, 28 Dec 2011 20:53:33 +0000http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=104649#comment-241327That is the single dumbest thing ever written/typed down before.
]]>By: sasquash20http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/12/28/why-doesnt-anyone-stump-for-aaron-to-be-booted-out-of-cooperstown/comment-page-1/#comment-241322
Wed, 28 Dec 2011 20:47:17 +0000http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=104649#comment-241322Not even close to the same thing. Apples and oranges, thus it makes zero sense. Prohibition was the banning of alcohol. Alcohol was something that was generally accepted by most in society. Steroids will never be generally accepted in society, or used as much as alcohol. Baseball is about history more then any sport. Thus steroids help shatter records that stood for decades. I do think greenies or other uppers may help you be your most alert, which would increase your numbers over a season. But if I had to pick one over the other in a contract season I’m juicing. The results are mind blowing and to act like there not isn’t being honest.
]]>By: yahmulehttp://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/12/28/why-doesnt-anyone-stump-for-aaron-to-be-booted-out-of-cooperstown/comment-page-1/#comment-241320
Wed, 28 Dec 2011 20:46:04 +0000http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=104649#comment-241320Except for the 211 home runs he hit in that decade.
]]>By: yahmulehttp://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/12/28/why-doesnt-anyone-stump-for-aaron-to-be-booted-out-of-cooperstown/comment-page-1/#comment-241319
Wed, 28 Dec 2011 20:44:04 +0000http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=104649#comment-241319The ADHD is the least of your problems. You’re grievously stupid as well.
]]>By: Kevin S.http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/12/28/why-doesnt-anyone-stump-for-aaron-to-be-booted-out-of-cooperstown/comment-page-1/#comment-241280
Wed, 28 Dec 2011 19:32:39 +0000http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=104649#comment-241280I used to chug coffee/Red Bull by the quart. This year, I began taking a low-medium dosage of Vyvanse (an amphetamine) for ADHD. I’m more alert for longer periods of time on 40 mils a day of that stuff than I was drinking a half a gallon of coffee. That you would equate the two things is a pretty good indicator that you haven’t got a clue as to what the fuck you’re talking about.

Oh, and those aren’t accusations. Aaron’s admitted to taking greenies.

Hey, lets try sticking to the baseball arguments. I’m all for grammar, punctuation, proper spelling and all that but if I can discern the point that somebody is trying to get to then I try and stick with just addressing their point. Granted, that is due largely to the fact that I’m a terrible typist, even worse speller and rarely proof read what I post. So there is that whole people in glass houses thing.

Unless somebody is being a complete pompous ass, lets stick to baseball. Otherwise, we risk spiraling into one monkey poop throwing event after another.

By the way, I agree completely with Davidoff, if you are going to hang guys for steroid use than there are a bunch of guys that took uppers, which were institutionalized and generally provided by the team, for decades that need to be outted, figuratively and literally. Also, keep in mind that percentage wise there were likely just as many pitchers taking steroids as hitters so there could be an argument made that it was a wash.

]]>By: churchoftheperpetuallyoutragedhttp://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/12/28/why-doesnt-anyone-stump-for-aaron-to-be-booted-out-of-cooperstown/comment-page-1/#comment-241262
Wed, 28 Dec 2011 19:04:45 +0000http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=104649#comment-241262They are getting Therapeutic Use Exemptions and getting prescribed Adarall for the record number of AD(H)D patients, i mean players, in MLB.
]]>By: drugrehabnewyorkhttp://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/12/28/why-doesnt-anyone-stump-for-aaron-to-be-booted-out-of-cooperstown/comment-page-1/#comment-241243
Wed, 28 Dec 2011 18:43:14 +0000http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=104649#comment-241243Speaking of the juice, I watched the Miami Heat last night and couldn’t help but notice the size of Dwyane Wade’s head seems to have grown, as well as pretty much ALL of Chris Bosh. Did a little research, and saw this, starting to think it’s credible: http://blogs.miaminewtimes.com/riptide/2009/04/dwyane_wades_former_business_p.php
]]>By: cur68http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/12/28/why-doesnt-anyone-stump-for-aaron-to-be-booted-out-of-cooperstown/comment-page-1/#comment-241239
Wed, 28 Dec 2011 18:30:36 +0000http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=104649#comment-241239I’m glad you’re saying some of this stuff as questions, Dan. Don’t forget the “Juiced Ball ERA” question. From the early 1990’s right thru to about 2002 (I think) that ball flew further on contact than it ever flew before. So the “steroid era” could easily be the “juiced ball era” or the “steroid-juiced ball era” or the “amphetamine-coke-alcohol-steroid-juiced ball era”.

The point of all this is that it is not possible to separate the effect of roids from that of the other stuff since they were concurrent. Anyone claiming to be able to do so speaks from their arse. In point of fact, the one thing you CAN conclusively say is that altering the ball itself alters its performance in a measurable and predictable fashion and was always illegal under the rules as stated since Adam was a pup. And yet, many august members of the BBWAA have no problem with the provable cheaters. Either get off the ‘roiders or get on all the cheaters. Anything else lacks integrity.

]]>By: mpw2133http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/12/28/why-doesnt-anyone-stump-for-aaron-to-be-booted-out-of-cooperstown/comment-page-1/#comment-241231
Wed, 28 Dec 2011 18:19:05 +0000http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=104649#comment-241231I have been making this point for years now, when you look at all the facts any substance that allows you to gain energy and back on the field of play when your hurt sore or indifferent is a PED. and thats not just me saying it that by definition. All these writers are a bunch of hypocrits.
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