I don't see how he isn't a well though out and meaningfull character.. its just well thought out and meaningfull in a different way to what you expect. I think actually that instead of having a well thought out, meaningfull and different character you'd just rather have a character we've all become used to and bored of, that would just reproduce similar story progression any other leader would? Garrosh has made a massive change to the story, a massive change to the game, in my opinion, its made it better, and has left a lot of room for a lot to go down.

I don't mind Garrosh as villain an quite like that soon I will be able to finally gut the bastard. The only thing I completely and utterly hate that he's leader of playable faction and I'm forced to do disgusting quests for him to advance beyond them and witness other stories I like much better. Yes, I said "forced", because you can't sidestep that one quest in most chains and because, for example, entire 5.1 landfall meaningful story with leaders I actually like is hidden behind bloodthirsty "paint it red" dailies.

I don't mind Garrosh as villain an quite like that soon I will be able to finally gut the bastard. The only thing I completely and utterly hate that he's leader of playable faction and I'm forced to do disgusting quests for him to advance beyond them and witness other stories I like much better. Yes, I said "forced", because you can't sidestep that one quest in most chains and because, for example, entire 5.1 landfall meaningful story with leaders I actually like is hidden behind bloodthirsty "paint it red" dailies.

It's specifically designed to make you feel uncomfortable. Don't you find it oddly coincidental that you make a blood oath to Vol'jin to take down Garrosh and then immediately go back to being ordered around by his lackies the very next day? This is actually a fairly accurate portrayal of how a high-ranking official can eventually join forces with rebellious elements of their nation in a coup. It's supposed to be hard to go back undercover after each and every event that makes you hate Garrosh more and more because when you finally get to take him down, it'll be that much better.

This is incorrect. The orcs were taught basically everything they know, by other races, the dark portal is a prime example of that. The orcs have no advanced technology, all they had were shamans and huts, they were a hunter gatherer society.

I agree the Burning Legion taught orcs many things, but you can see from the distance that orcs have much more potential than any other race, you can see that in the fel orcs.
Fel orcs were much, much more stronger than fel blood elves for example.
Orcs have much more potential than their trainers. You can see that in Gul'dan. Gul'dan has unleashed much more havoc than Kil'jaedan or Archimonde both summed up (dont make me mention them again, check wowwiki or wowpedia).
You can see that in Fel Grom Hellscream, he unleashed much more damage than Manoroth ever hoped.
Burning Legion tried to kill Cenarius for thousand of years yet they havent succeded, but Grom succeded in one attempt and it wasnt even his purpose.

Its like coach training the champion, thats why i say the Old Horde could have destroyed the Burning Legion easily.

Yeah exploited they were, but what if they would turn against their masters? as i said if Grom Hellscream one shoted Manoroth, immagine Fel Grom Hellscream.
I think the Legion risked a bit much when they enpowered orcs, even if they could control them.
They played with the Ultralisk as if they would play with a normal Zergling thats what they did.

Yeah exploited they were, but what if they would turn against their masters? as i said if Grom Hellscream one shoted Manoroth, immagine Fel Grom Hellscream.
I think the Legion risked a bit much when they enpowered orcs, even if they could control him.

You give orcs too much credit, they were slaughtered and imprisoned by pathetic alliance, no way they would stand a chance against foe that consumed who knows how many worlds.

And that thing with Mannoroth was put in by Metzen because he has a hardon for shirtless orcs slaughtering everything. If someone competent was making the story, he would be dead.

You give orcs too much credit, they were slaughtered and imprisoned by pathetic alliance, no way they would stand a chance against foe that consumed who knows how many worlds.

And that thing with Mannoroth was put in by Metzen because he has a hardon for shirtless orcs slaughtering everything. If someone competent was making the story, he would be dead.

Imprisoned while VASTLY outnumbered, when there was the problem with the portal, the Alliance closed the portal and some orcs remained on Azeroth. Those were the ones imprisoned.
In a full out war, mano a mano, no other interference, Horde would break Alliance like flies (like they almost did with Doomhammer, luckly for Alliance Gul'dan betrayed them and took half of army with him, otherwise Alliance was no mroe now). Normal orcs not even mentioning Fel Orcs.

You said it yourself. Legion not only outnumbers orcs, it can drown them in bodies.

Yeah so you are saying the only advantage the Legion had over Old Horde was their numbers (if they would become enemies eventually). That i agree. Jaw to jaw, foe to foe, Old Horde was much more stronger.
Numbers in a fantasy environement like that of WoW arent as important.

Yeah so you are saying the only advantage the Legion had over Old Horde was their numbers (if they would become enemies eventually). That i agree. Jaw to jaw, foe to foe, Old Horde was much more stronger.

Now you are bringing "honor" and "fair fight" into it? Stop spitting hypocrisy.