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Smash Hero

Sylux's absence + the presence of lesser hunters appearing as spirits is certainly suspect. I think "spirits deconfirm" is "Ness deconfirmed" levels of digging-too-deep nonsense but I can't help but feel that this omission in particular was deliberate.

I know he had no trophy in Sm4sh, but that game came out before even Federation Force was announced, which was the game that basically cemented his status as an important character.

Count me in, I love Metroid and having some more vicious, serious villains is very enticing. This is the only potential promo character that interests me. A character that utilizes tripwires? You have my full attention.

I can think of only one reason they'd omit a spirit of him: he's getting a new or updated design in Prime 4 and they don't want to spoil it yet. Or they actually don't have it done yet, but then what would stop them from just putting in the old one and then adding the new one later?

I'd like to believe there's a huge coincidence where Sylux missing out on a Spirit is futureproofing in anticipation of Prime 4 in some fashion given how stuff seems to be lining up (especially if Bandai Namco is actually making it), but it's still entirely probable that they just glossed over it with no deeper meaning. These speculation cycles are rife with misinterpreted red herrings, after all (i.e. the picture people thought was a Golden Sun hint).

Hopefully we'll get some added direction on Thursday if Prime 4 actually shows up as that 'something special' at the Game Awards.

I'd like to believe there's a huge coincidence where Sylux missing out on a Spirit is futureproofing in anticipation of Prime 4 in some fashion given how stuff seems to be lining up (especially if Bandai Namco is actually making it), but it's still entirely probable that they just glossed over it with no deeper meaning. These speculation cycles are rife with misinterpreted red herrings, after all (i.e. the picture people thought was a Golden Sun hint).

Hopefully we'll get some added direction on Thursday if Prime 4 actually shows up as that 'something special' at the Game Awards.

Fair, but the thing about the Let's Go spirits is that, like Olimar in Melee it's they're only unlocked if save data of the game is found on your switch.

Plus to go alongside that we do already have Evee and Pikachu spirits in the game so I don't think that detracts from it too much when you also consider Let's Go was coming out before Ultimate and even though it wouldn't make much sense saying Sakurai didn't want to include things from a game that wasn't out yet since Let's Go is just a new Gen 1 remake of Yellow and a what if version if there was a Pokémon Brown version, now that would make more sense if it was a Melmetal and Meltsn spirit but eh... I guess their mere presence in Let's Go could've been a reason as to why they waited for after Let's Go to release to announce this but... nonetheless this probably does detract more of the chances of Adeleine and Porky (unless we have a new Kirby game and a Mother Collection/Mother 3 coming out next year) than it does Sylux, as Prime 4 is a thing we know will come in the future and I'm quite sure Nintendo will promote it with a fighter rather than a spirit due to the fact this game could very well be the Awakening scenario but for Metroid Prime 4, if the game doesn't sell well we may never see Samus embark on another adventure ever again and that only further cements in my mind when Metroid: Samus Returns only sold .49 million units and while I would chalk that up due to it being releasing for a system not many people care about due to the Swirch being out by then it is very much a thing to worry about on the business side of things nonetheless since I don't think Nintendo would care if it was released on a rapidly ignored system, they'd only care about the numbers.

So to give a push to Prime 4 I think they Sylux being a fighter would make much more sense for marketing than being a mere spirit especially since not many outside of the Metroid community know who he is which is why I think he's absent from pretty much every YouTuber's DLC prediction videos and why others may underestimate him greatly. It would probably make more people want to buy Metroid Prime 4 if they saw one of its key characters in action than just a png.

Smash Journeyman

I'd be more willing to write off Sylux's absence if less important hunters weren't there. He's the only omission of the "big three" people have taken note of that can't really be easily written off as anything but something pertaining to an upcoming game, given how hard he would be to miss when going through the hunters.

Adeleine: I recall Sakurai stating that he just doesn't want human characters in Kirby, and her existence is a result of him not directing the Dark Matter trilogy. Good character but I can sadly see how she'd just end up being brushed aside.
Porky: Is joke (play Mother 3)
Sylux: ???

It very well could be nothing, but that's no fun to talk about. I don't buy Spirits being direct confirmations (or deconfirmations for that matter), but Sylux raises an eyebrow dang it. They glossed over the upcoming big bad but not Kanden? ****ed up if true
At least the Metroid reps would be diverse save for Dark Samus, even the literal same character twice has a different moveset.

I mean I've heard they're actually stoke about Dark Samus... they just were complacent when it came to Ridley and called him Captain America cause the rest of us were calling to too big BS to be just that, BS.

Though I don't care, I'd rather see them suffer and complain about not getting another FE rep than have them be happy about getting another FE rep... which is likely nonetheless.

I'd be more willing to write off Sylux's absence if less important hunters weren't there. He's the only omission of the "big three" people have taken note of that can't really be easily written off as anything but something pertaining to an upcoming game, given how hard he would be to miss when going through the hunters.

Adeleine: I recall Sakurai stating that he just doesn't want human characters in Kirby, and her existence is a result of him not directing the Dark Matter trilogy. Good character but I can sadly see how she'd just end up being brushed aside.
Porky: Is joke (play Mother 3)
Sylux: ???

It very well could be nothing, but that's no fun to talk about. I don't buy Spirits being direct confirmations (or deconfirmations for that matter), but Sylux raises an eyebrow dang it. They glossed over the upcoming big bad but not Kanden? ****ed up if true
At least the Metroid reps would be diverse save for Dark Samus, even the literal same character twice has a different moveset.

While your reasoning for Adeleine is kinda solid, as a recent Porky supporter I'm just going to point out the following

1. Even if he's a joke, he's a major villain in Earthbound and Mother 3 so his absence is big nonetheless even if Giygas is not there either, Giygas could easily be in a Final Smash.

2. He is literally the /only/ boss throughout the entire series that doesn't have a spirit, I don't know about you but that in itself is to be equally suspicious as Sylux's absence is.

3. Next year happens to be Mother's 30th anniversary and while I'm not saying anything will happen, it would make a ton of sense to add one of the series' major villains and characters there alongside either Mother 3 finally being given to everyone outside of Japan or a remastered Mother 3 and Earthbound game in 3-D.

Nonetheless I'm gonna stop it there as this is the /Sylux/ thread, not the /Porky/ thread, I just had the urge that had to be said and not be left alone.

I still do believe out of everyone though Sylux has the biggest chances since he's a pre-established character that could be a promotional fighter for an upcoming game that's highly anticipated by fans, I do think though he'll be in the latter said of DLC since I view Prime 4 releasing late 2019 or Early 2020. Porky is the second for reasons I've stated, and Adeleine is the third and least likely due to what you've said but she's also a popular character in the Kirby fan base and has been requested to return for years on end and she finally has with Star Allies so that is something to note and K Rool and Ridley having similar requests is finally what got Nintendo to add them to the roster (as if I recall with K Rool, apparently they were surprised how much he was requested to be in Smash Bros.) so I don't think Sakurai's vendetta against her would stop her from appearing alone as you said. The man also hasn't worked on a Kirby game for years he could've just passed by her not even knowing or remembering her, if anything I think Adeleine could at the least be a future DLC spirit (personally if you had asked me before we knew all the assist trophies I would've said she'd be a lock but uh... Vince took that spot, so... that could either decrease or increase her chances if you ask me). Nonetheless if spirits and bosses do deconfirm (I say bosses because I know 90% of the community will shrug off Bowser turning into Giga Bowser and

Ganondorf turning into Ganon

because "They're veterans, they don't break the rule") she's the only plausible Kirby rep in my eyes that could be DLC unless they somehow make Zero II of all things a playable fighter or Hyness from Star Allies.

Smash Journeyman

I mean I've heard they're actually stoke about Dark Samus... they just were complacent when it came to Ridley and called him Captain America cause the rest of us were calling to too big BS to be just that, BS.

Though I don't care, I'd rather see them suffer and complain about not getting another FE rep than have them be happy about getting another FE rep... which is likely nonetheless.

While your reasoning for Adeleine is kinda solid, as a recent Porky supporter I'm just going to point out the following

1. Even if he's a joke, he's a major villain in Earthbound and Mother 3 so his absence is big nonetheless even if Giygas is not there either, Giygas could easily be in a Final Smash.

2. He is literally the /only/ boss throughout the entire series that doesn't have a spirit, I don't know about you but that in itself is to be equally suspicious as Sylux's absence is.

3. Next year happens to be Mother's 30th anniversary and while I'm not saying anything will happen, it would make a ton of sense to add one of the series' major villains and characters there alongside either Mother 3 finally being given to everyone outside of Japan or a remastered Mother 3 and Earthbound game in 3-D.

Nonetheless I'm gonna stop it there as this is the /Sylux/ thread, not the /Porky/ thread, I just had the urge that had to be said and not be left alone.

I still do believe out of everyone though Sylux has the biggest chances since he's a pre-established character that could be a promotional fighter for an upcoming game that's highly anticipated by fans, I do think though he'll be in the latter said of DLC since I view Prime 4 releasing late 2019 or Early 2020. Porky is the second for reasons I've stated, and Adeleine is the third and least likely due to what you've said but she's also a popular character in the Kirby fan base and has been requested to return for years on end and she finally has with Star Allies so that is something to note and K Rool and Ridley having similar requests is finally what got Nintendo to add them to the roster (as if I recall with K Rool, apparently they were surprised how much he was requested to be in Smash Bros.) so I don't think Sakurai's vendetta against her would stop her from appearing alone as you said. The man also hasn't worked on a Kirby game for years he could've just passed by her not even knowing or remembering her, if anything I think Adeleine could at the least be a future DLC spirit (personally if you had asked me before we knew all the assist trophies I would've said she'd be a lock but uh... Vince took that spot, so... that could either decrease or increase her chances if you ask me). Nonetheless if spirits and bosses do deconfirm (I say bosses because I know 90% of the community will shrug off Bowser turning into Giga Bowser and

Ganondorf turning into Ganon

because "They're veterans, they don't break the rule") she's the only plausible Kirby rep in my eyes that could be DLC unless they somehow make Zero II of all things a playable fighter or Hyness from Star Allies.

When I said "joke", I was more referring to the presence of the Absolutely Safe Capsule, which Porky is inside of. Even Galeem's laser couldn't destroy that thing, meaning he couldn't have become a spirit because he was safe from the laser. Porky is presumably spankety spankety spanking it up at Galeem's expense, inside the capsule, until everyone who won't like him is gone.

Plus this whole MIA Sylux thing plays really well into the mystery of the character. I like where this is headed, should it be what it sounds like.

Smash Journeyman

When I said "joke", I was more referring to the presence of the Absolutely Safe Capsule, which Porky is inside of. Even Galeem's laser couldn't destroy that thing, meaning he couldn't have become a spirit because he was safe from the laser. Porky is presumably spankety spankety spanking it up at Galeem's expense, inside the capsule, until everyone who won't like him is gone.

Plus this whole MIA Sylux thing plays really well into the mystery of the character. I like where this is headed, should it be what it sounds like.

Ah, my bad, though unlike other spirits who are in a different form, examples being Petey Piranaha and Waluigi (Strikers) then just normal spirits of them the ASC doesn't have (Porky) attached to it, seeming as we have items and the smash ball as a spirit as well... they I think they intentionally left Porky's name absence form it, nonetheless it's still a funny thought.

Yeah... guess you're right on the whole MIA thing, does fit Sylux's thing of being the mystery man.

Though I will say we will get the third party fighters first since those have probably been in development the longest due to the listening and stuff and first parties just started development last month or the last one did anyways, which as I've stated I think Sylux will be one of the last fighters released, so near 2020 as any Prime 4 trailers will probably create more hype for him and the game, and then finishing it off with him being in Smash Bros would only escalate such hype to further levels.

So... according to this video Metroid Prime 4 has now been longer in development than Metroid Prime 2, I'm not sure if it's fake or not in which is another reason I'm editing this onto my post is to maybe get some more knowledgeable people here help decide if it is or not.

Smash Journeyman

Game awards are today folks... let's hope for Prime 4 to get something today and even a Metroid Prime Trilogy on the Switch (though... I gotta say a Prime collection would be nice too... adding at least the story modes from Hunters and Federation Force so everyone can experience the games leading up to Prime 4).

Though with that electronic billboard thing having a blank space next to Piranha Plant... Sylux may be announced today but as I've said, I think he'd be a latter announcement, though another huge possibility today is Banjo and Kazooie for a whole plethora of things.

Smash Apprentice

I can't bring myself to care for the Game Awards, but I'm willing to sit through it if there's a good chance we'll actually get an update on Metroid Prime 4. A Metroid Prime Trilogy announcement would be fine too, but I really hope that won't be all we're getting.

On a sidenote: I don't think we'll get a Sylux announcement today. Ultimate isn't even (officially) out yet, so we'll probably have to wait a bit longer for DLC fighters namedrops.

Smash Journeyman

I can't bring myself to care for the Game Awards, but I'm willing to sit through it if there's a good chance we'll actually get an update on Metroid Prime 4. A Metroid Prime Trilogy announcement would be fine too, but I really hope that won't be all we're getting.

On a sidenote: I don't think we'll get a Sylux announcement today. Ultimate isn't even (officially) out yet, so we'll probably have to wait a bit longer for DLC fighters namedrops.

Smash Journeyman

You know? I'm kinda happy bout that, honestly. Sure, more (or, you know, actual) news about Metroid Prime 4 would have been great, but I also hope this means they're taking their time on the game until they have something proper to show for it.

Smash Modder

Apparently Reggie said something during the Game Awards post-show about DLC being characters that are from new franchises or something along those lines? No one's got the exact quote yet at the time of this post and they're presumably busy freaking out over Joker so I'm all for being corrected once everything settles down.

That might not bode well for a lot of characters speculated here if it's actually the case.

edit: went back and found the audio, he specifically says "characters that are new to the series". That isn't exactly clear enough since it could technically mean "characters from franchises that are new to the series."

Smash Hero

He also said something about "No one you're anticipating". Sylux definitely fits on bill in terms of the whole Smash fandom since he's not on the level as King K. Rool and Ridley were. That and with Nintendo choosing it'd make sense they'd add him to promote Metroid Prime 4.

Smash Journeyman

At it's face value, those words only mean: 'These characters have not been playable in Smash'...and of course they haven't: Everyone is here, right?

If we go to the other extreme and believe that this does mean the characters have never been seen at all within the series period, then this is a nice list of characters that will not come within DLC Pack 1 (assuming the potential but not confirmed concept of a DLC Pack 2):

Smash Journeyman

At it's face value, those words only mean: 'These characters have not been playable in Smash'...and of course they haven't: Everyone is here, right?

If we go to the other extreme and believe that this does mean the characters have never been seen at all within the series period, then this is a nice list of characters that will not come within DLC Pack 1 (assuming the potential but not confirmed concept of a DLC Pack 2):

I don't know... I just have a feeling scenario number 2 may happen over the rest but I'm gonna chalk it up to some slight despair I'm feeling for no new Prime 4 info (hyped about Joker though, makes more sense why Xander Mobus returned too now).

I'd obviously prefer the first scenario because Sylux would still have a chance and well... I'm not really trusting any leaks even if we do have that leak that Banjo supporter graciously provided us with that seems realistic but also too good to be true.

I still believe the evidence would point to Sylux but eh... with all the ways that quote can be taken it does put some doubt in me as if it's the second option that is the truth a whole lot of characters I wanted got yeeted out the window save for Banjo and Kazooie, Monokuma, and Jin, so that's a bit more to add onto that potential pile.

Nonetheless (I find it funny since I'm the guy who runs the Monokuma support thread) I'm just in a state of despair probably, I'll be back to my normal self soon enough and hopefully convince myself the dream is still alive!

Smash Journeyman

Leaks are lies until the evidence is shown; the burden of proof is not placed upon the recipient. (lemme just dust off the basics of my law degree real quick)

But yes, call me out as the crazy Custom Robo optimist that I am (Custom Robo being saved by options one and three...can't complain), but I still think option two is...absurd, as it leaves Nintendo short of a lot of its own characters for inclusion outside of promotional ones from upcoming games (which would include Sylux if Tanabe truly goes that route for Prime 4). I mean...Maybe the Fire Emblem crowd would get hyped about a character that we/they know nothing about, but a character like Joker brings in a whole new group of people; SMT fans, Persona fans, and especially people who might not even be on the Switch. But when I think about the concept of someone from Three Houses popping into my head, I just keep thinking 'What are you wearing? That's not armor, why are you going onto the battlefield wearing a dress?' 'Really? Another Fire Emblem character?'

To be fair, Even if Sylux had been announced at the VGA...it only would have truly worked if we also had Prime 4 news. If it was without that'd make no sense...but the 'Wow Factor' of Joker is why announcing them at something like the VGA makes more sense for a larger event. Most people would look at Sylux and, rather than say 'Really? Another Metroid character?' would look at that announcement and say: 'Who?' Since, while an 'established' character, they aren't known outside of their (admittedly small) franchise and would not draw as many prospective new or returning players in to invest in additional payments.

---------

I feel as though Nintendo is not likely to go predominately third-party. While enticing for the initial 'Wow Factor', splitting the money on DLC due to licensing stuff is not as enticing as busting out your own characters for that extra dosh. If option two were true? They'd be strapped for those big name options. I mean, looking at that incomplete Thanos'd list of Nintendo characters...what big name characters do they really have still standing that'll convince people to pay extra money for this game?

That's not everyone, but the point is that most of the notable Zelda prospects are out. You could do this with most of the other main franchises too, Metroid included (RIP Weavil and Sylux). There's even the Universes without fighters that are out of the running too, since their most known characters would already be in the series in some form (and in so doing have no chance by option two's standards)

...and even on the side of Third-Parties you have Rayman. Not a personal favorite myself, but that's a character who'd garner some of that 'Wow Factor' from before, if you were truly going that route.

Smash Modder

Everyone has their knee jerk reaction to this whole thing, myself included. Happening near midnight wasn't exactly conductive to most of us thinking at our best anyway. Like I said before the awards, them opening Fighter Pass DLC with a wide appeal choice was expected. Persona 5 is one of the most celebrated RPGs in recent memory and something Sakurai has praised in depth, so Joker in hindsight isn't too out of left field. Plus, opening with a widely recognized third party at a globally transmitted event watched by millions was a smart move. A third party inherently generates more buzz than, say, a first party like Elma, Bandanna Dee or Sylux. Standard Directs in the future are much better places to expect first party characters given the intended audience.

Reggie's comment is vague, yes, but I don't think Nintendo would gridlock themselves out of promoting a future first party release with Smash. There's still four more slots left in the Fighter Pass and at least two of them could stand to be first party choices.

As for the leak, well, anyone can make guesses. If you ask me it's a too good to be true kind of list (plus the vagueness doesn't help it), but the fact that it had Joker means it's worth keeping tabs on as the months go by.

It's not over until the last character is announced, and we have a whole year to go. Keep your heads up.

Smash Journeyman

Everyone has their knee jerk reaction to this whole thing, myself included. Happening near midnight wasn't exactly conductive to most of us thinking at our best anyway. Like I said before the awards, them opening Fighter Pass DLC with a wide appeal choice was expected. Persona 5 is one of the most celebrated RPGs in recent memory and something Sakurai has praised in depth, so Joker in hindsight isn't too out of left field. Plus, opening with a widely recognized third party at a globally transmitted event watched by millions was a smart move. A third party inherently generates more buzz than, say, a first party like Elma, Bandanna Dee or Sylux. Standard Directs in the future are much better places to expect first party characters given the intended audience.

Reggie's comment is vague, yes, but I don't think Nintendo would gridlock themselves out of promoting a future first party release with Smash. There's still four more slots left in the Fighter Pass and at least two of them could stand to be first party choices.

As for the leak, well, anyone can make guesses. If you ask me it's a too good to be true kind of list (plus the vagueness doesn't help it), but the fact that it had Joker means it's worth keeping tabs on as the months go by.

It's not over until the last character is announced, and we have a whole year to go. Keep your heads up.

I mean, Reggie's comment is kinda the most nothing thing ever since (for example) Piranha Plant and Isabelle are new to the series. The comment basically just boils down to "The DLC is brand new characters".

Proteus Geoform

Glad I didn’t sugarcoat it earlier then. Wasn’t sure what to make of that interpreted Reggie statement when I first saw it given how tired I was at night, but I’m glad the remaining first party characters still have a shot. Well the DLC’s have already been decided but y’know, like to think Nintendo chose some of its own characters too and that it’s not all shock 3rd party reveals, much as I would still like to have some.

Smash Journeyman

If I were to hazard a guess, I'd say that the DLC reveal schedule (as the DLCs are going through 2020 if I remember right) would look something like the following:

VGA - Joker AKA Shock Third-Party Character
Nintendo Direct - First Party Character
Major Nintendo Direct - Notable First Party Character / Notable Third-Party Crossover (Someone Nintendo is on good grounds with)
E3 - Shock First/Third-Party Character
Nintendo Direct - First Party Character

With announcements throughout 2019, they're going to want to reveal the biggest guns where they are likely to get the best attention from the most possible sources, ideally bookending the series with another heavy hitter, with the three in the middle providing a sense of stability with varying levels of hype. What this would theoretically mean for Sylux is that it makes sense to reveal Sylux, a not-so-known Nintendo Character, at a Nintendo-Oriented Event (AKA Nintendo Directs) as this is the most likely place where your target audience would be watching. Ideally, this would coincide with Metroid Prime 4 news in order to stoke the flames of the hype train even more, but could be placed into a Direct without this information...

...though, after an announcement like Joker, following him with a Sylux reveal without Metroid Prime 4 news would be a notable downgrade.

Smash Hero

I will say though, one thing for sure is, the fact that nothing about Metroid Prime 4 was shown through the entirety of the VGAs bothered me. No Sylux reveal, I can manage, but not even showing a small tease? They're definitely hiding something.

Smash Journeyman

That...is a true and valid observation. Personally, I prefer to be an optimist.

But, as a whole, I'd say these are the following four fates for Sylux:

- Sylux is revealed as a DLC Pack 1 Fighter (I do not think he'll be the last one shown but, as K.W. said, that's certainly a possibility)
- If it is deemed to exist, Sylux is revealed as a DLC Pack 2 Fighter
- Sylux is added as a spirit with Prime 4 data the same way that Pikachu and Eevee Spirits were added for Let's Go!
- There is no Sylux. Only tears.

Smash Journeyman

I might be a Custom Robo man at heart, but I genuinely believe our boy Sylux (despite my also being a disgusting Weavil main and the jerk who found out how to glitch through walls) has arguably the best chance out of all of Nintendo's first parties.

Smash Journeyman

Speaking of Metroid Prime 4 though, when do you guys think they'll announce it? I'm thinking Metroid isn't a big enough series to carry an entire E3 if we go by Nintendo's E3 patterns of a single game taking a majority of the time and all but I think January is a bit too early, I'm thinking in a March or April Direct to be honest.

Edit: Also found this when I was scrolling through YouTube

I'm not exactly sure how true it is as I can't find said interview (that or because it's 4:57 am when I'm typing this, refusing to going to sleep making me too lazy to actually find it). So if someone could actually find it we may actually have gotten an indirect confirmation of a brand new Metroid Prime trilogy and not just Prime 4.

Edit 2: Also fun fact, Pyscho Bits from Metroid Prime Hunters is a track in the game and is the only track from Hunters in the game.