Forbea - WELCOME!! We are so glad to have you here, and you are probably going to be inundated with support, very quickly. =)

Congratulations on being off of the Tramadol!! A whole month! I know you are still feeling the horror, but this really is a big achievement.

My sister was put on prednisone for a flare-up of ulcerative colitis about 5 years ago and went completely insane...turned out the nurse had messed up the order and she was on way too much. I was sure she was going to kill herself. Eventually they figured out their error, and she eventually got better. My father is a doctor, and is terrified any time a doctor tries to put one of us on prednisone. It is a life-saver, but you're right...with such an awful backlash.

I know there are people on here who would take a codeine or a vicodin from time-to-time to ease the Tram withdrawals...they seemed pleased with the effect. I, however, took a Darvocet for a migraine about 2 weeks into withdrawal...and the next two days definitely felt like I was back at week 1. I am only 9 days Effexor-free, so I'm aware that it takes a long time to totally recover from that, too.

I'm sure you've already read it, but Tramadol has both that synthetic opioid-agonist AND an anti-depressant almost identical in structure to Effexor. So...it's like, getting off of the Tramadol probably aggravated the Effexor-less issues AND produced the opiate withdrawal.

I'm sure you've already found the Thomas Detox Recipe in this journal, but if you haven't...it will really help you when you decide to jump up from the Norco's completely. Also, I have some solutions that help with the Effexor-related mumbo-jumbo. To sum up these two together, for you to use now...before and when you jump off:

1) Liquid vitamins (Emergen-C, Ionic Fizz...which is my personal favorite, because it has so much magnesium for calming) will help your body to fight the war against the damage that has been done to it

2) Mineral baths, whenever you need them (I use a generic one from CVS that has eucalyptus in it...helps the muscle pain, and eases the sinuses)

4) GABA (not gabapentin) from Whole Foods or whatever health food store...it relaxes the nerves, both body and brain. It is a neurotransmitter derivative. I take it at night, and take the sublinguals during the day when I need to.

5) Valerian/Passion Flower/L-Theanine (for anxiety and sleep)

6) Immodium AD (if you cannot stand the runs or cramping, anymore...although it's good to wait, as your body is trying to get the nasty stuff out of your system)

7) 5HTP (this has saved me from the Effexor withdrawal symptoms...as it is a precursor for Seratonin)

8) Vitamin Gummies! I take the Ionic Fizz at night (since it relaxes me), but I take the vitamin gummies during the day or immunity and energy...since swallowing the Vitamin B's made me sick.

9) Melatonin, unless you find it's causing more Restless Legs (it started to for me, so I stuck with the Valerian/Passionflower mix)

10) RELAX INTO THE PAIN, INSOMNIA, AND ANXIETY. It sounds ridiculous, but this is the one piece of advice from reading Emily's posts that has changed my life. Any time I feel like my body or brain won't let me talk them out of one of these things, I close my eyes and breathe/relax into it. For some reason, it makes the pain and insomnia bearable.

I'm going to leave this arsenal at 10 items for now...but let me know if you have any questions/other symptoms I didn't address. There IS a light at the end of this tunnel and it is BRIGHT. Most of us admit to being big babies about pain, sleeplessness, anxiety, and illness before recovery...but have gained so much strength in dealing with these without the aid of pharmaceuticals. As soon as you convince yourself that you have the power to get through the ugliest parts of this, then the battle has begun and you WILL be the victor.

All that said, I now have the flu and it FEELS like Day 3 of Tram w/d's...but I waged a minor war in support of my immune system, and I'm starting to feel a victory (even though I'm already taking the day off tomorrow).

You are not on very many Norco's right now, so you could probably make the jump...but if you want to try to get down to 1 a day...then 1/2 a day...maybe that would lessen the symptoms? It sounds like you keep starting withdrawal between pills, though, so perhaps you are ready (if you DON'T need to be working!) to make the jump. I had the luxury of not being allowed to work for the first month off of Tram...so I was able to focus solely on my recovery. Don't know what your situation will allow for...but I hope you can get a chunk of days off to get through the 4 days of nastiness.

Thanks for helping me feel less guilty about a little valium. I took one and slept three hours! My friend only brought me 5 pills rather than the 10 I asked for. He said he thought I may feel less guilty. Joe said if I was in a hospital detox they would be giving me something. Not to worry. Thanks again. Gonna try and go back to sleep.

I want to thank you all for welcoming me and giving me some great advice. I just cant imagine what my Doc was thinking and still does about Tramadol. He has told me when I spoke to him on the phone, that there is no Evidence of Paranoid thoughts or that Tramadol is addicting. I am so furious with him for that and many other problems.
Needless to say he is no longer my Doc.
So the shaking/nervousness, I am having, and the bathroom issues are common, Seems i cant eat anything without running to the restroom... I am hoping it will subside soon. I read above about Gaba and my all natural Doc just gave me a bottle.
Thank you so much for your support..
Today is a new day, Going to make the most of it... <3

KD...If I had a really good doc who was mistaken about Tram, I would be willing to forgive that, until he wouldn't even listen to me. I have addictive tendancies, true, but Tramadol turned me into a full fledged addict. I've messed with Xanax, Dexedrine, Ritalin (all via perscription, but still did not follow the instructions) but put them down with no ill effects. I followed a short Xanax taper with a week of Klonapin. Then I moved on the opiates recreationally. Hydrocodone. I took bunches. I spent $6,000 in one summer, became furious with myself, put that down, and had some mild detox for about a week. Okay, maybe I was an addict before Tramapuke, but I have always been in control of myself.

Then I found tramapuke. It was cheap. No real high per se, but it made me feel energetic the way I did when I was prescribed the meds form my ADD. You could get it online. Heaven. It got to where I was taking 6-8 in the morning to be able to get out of be and go to work. Within a year I was addicted. I found this out when I ran out the first time. I have stolen pills from my father. One night when I was so miserable in detox, I got out of bed at 3 a.m. when to the parents house and the screeen door was latched. I almost broke it down. I knew what I was. Couldn't ignore it. It took me another year to give up and get clean,

I think I am having an easier time than some. But I had a bad day six, following a wonderful day five, so I guess I am not as excited as I was.

I took two valiums last night and I did sleep and it did help the jitters, but I feel a little drugish this morning and I HATE that feeling. I threw the others away. I have been so enjoing the real me, I think I would rather go through a bad post tramadol day and deal with it, that try to cover it up. So for me, I won't be taking any more valium. It really was not bad enough to warrant it.

I wanted to be alone, Joe was feeling lonely. When my body is dealing with the RS everything, I don't like to be touched. I also have woken up EVERY morning other than the first few days with energy bubbling over and looking forward to the day. I can't say that today. The valium has my energy. F*** that stuff.

I'm SO PROUD of you for getting rid of the rest, once you felt your power taken from you. I'm glad that you got some sleep, but am sad that the Valium took away some of the naturally-good feelings. You are SO strong to say f*** you to that stuff, because of it. Also, this journal (and others on medhelp) always points out that after a great day, you will usually have a poor day...but then there's always another day after that, which will eventually turned back to GOOD! "I will trust my own body to deal with this from here out"...that is AMAZING and what I wish for everyone. I am so proud of you.

KD,

I'm so glad that you got rid of that doctor. If you search online for the online PDR (physician's desk reference), you will be able to search for the entry that DOCTORS ARE SUPPOSED TO REVIEW on Tramadol. The tramadol entry, however, wasn't amended until November 1st, 2010. Maybe they'll start to believe us, now. I'm so glad you fired him, since (like all of my doctors) he never bothered to research the drugs you were on TO SEE if what you were saying was true. Makes me so angry. Let me know if the GABA helps, and if you're not already...Valerian totally obliterated any of my anxiety symptoms. It's amazing.

Your recoveries are inspiring. I took the day off for my bogus flu, but the war I waged against it last night ended up in my favor. Vitamins are amazing...

DAY 30!!!! I never thought I would see this day!!! I always read that there was a 'turning point' around day 30, and anxiously awaited it. I'll let you guys know if it happens, but this flu may hold it off a few days.

DamTram, CONGRATS ON DAY 30.. I can't wait to be where you are.. Hope the Flu passes soon!

Nora, Thank you for the comment on my Avatar. I took it a couple of weeks ago during one of our "snow storms" I can't wait for the weather to get alot better and me a little stronger. I love taking pictures.

Randy, I felt so guilty for taking xanax to get sleep at night. I even slept 10 hrs my 2nd or 3rd night. I tossed and turned a lot, but went right back to sleep. Even with all that sleep I would wake up very draggy feeling. I was going to step down over a few days but just decided to try the Melatonin and now I'm getting 5 to 6 hours of sleep .last night I only woke up 4 or 5 times and pretty much took about 10 to 15 minutes to fall back asleep. At least I'm not groggy from the xanax.. I think you should do what you have/need to, to get you through these horrible withdrawals.. They are Hell...

Right now I am having fewer and fewer brain zaps, Thank goodness. The sneezing and itching/stuffy nose is driving me nuts. I am so energyless I just can't get anything done, but I am so happy that I'm not horribley depressed like I have been beforewhen trying to get off this junk! I can't wait to make it to day 13 because I believe that will be the longest I have ever made it and it will be the last time.. I don't even crave it this time. It still angers me that he gave 240 with 5 refills the first time. I have never been addicted to anything in my life and the man is still handing them out like there is no tomorrow. I just wish there were some way to get these Dr.'s to know what they are prescribing.... Sure would have made my life a litlle easier..lol

Thanks everyone. I am concerned that I am beginning to feel the effects of the anti-depressant component. Yes, I had two valium last night and I slept.

It is almost 11:30 am, and I feel like a walking zombie. I feel like dead weight, want to be in bed and would probably be sleeping. I missed out on a LOT of sleep in the last 5 days, so may be normal. But I also have a feeling of being in a bubble, which you all mention as a longer lasting effect (I read people mentioning that 20-30 days in.) I hate it. I feel like my wonderful Monday has been taken away.

I'm not going to relapse on tram, and not taking anything else but vitamins and Neproxsyn for pain. I hope this doesn't go on for long!

Randy, your Monday is YOURS. You had it, it is much too late for it to be taken away. After a really great day, it is hard to remember the non-lineaness of the Tramadol recovery, and how a good day may or may not be followed by a bad day. Out of the Tramafog we have the ability to recognize good days and bad days, when previously it was all the same.

Joe is very right about rehab. They gave me Valium as well as ambien while I was in rehab. They sent me home with vistaril and trazadone, as well as low doses of my muscle relaxer, xanaflex. I am hoping in the next couple of months, to remove the vistaril. I am also on Gabapentin and Effexor. I want to discuss Gabapentin with my Drs to see if this is right for me. I am staying on effexor for the time being, as I have felt this is the first time in a while an antidepressant has been so effective. I know FOR ME, I need an anti-depressant. I also know I could not handle another withdrawal period.

DamTram-congrats on 30 days! It is truly a mile stone. Things do begin to look up a bit more at this mark. I am so proud of you!

The worst for me, is the fatigue and not being able to relax when I go to bed. I am taking a multivitamin w/added minerals. A b-complex vitamin, and emergenC. Knowing I can have it more than 1x a day is a very happy thing. I am in the process of ordering some sublinguals to help me. Vicks vapor rub for my cold and cough, ActivON keeps the pain in my Shoulder/Arm/Hand manageable, as well as Arnica. A mineral bath is so helpful. I mix up a little eucalyptus with my DR Teal's Lavender. But I find lavender on its own really calms me & helps my sinuses as well. I am becoming concerned with what I am putting my body. I am reading labels more diligently. Less garbage, more good stuff. I am deathly allergic to poultry (all the antibiotics & garbage, and buying range free organic is much too expensive) so I try to get my protien from cheese, some red meat, tofu and fish.

Today it is raining, something we have needed very badly. It bothers my pain, but really, it is manageable. I am hoping to come out of my sick/fatigueness soon and rise from the ashes.

JMA- that is a fantastic picture! I am from So Cal, and I have NEVER seen a Cardinal in real life. I remember living in San Francisco and being overjoyed by the abundance of Robins there. The one thing we do have are lots of Hummingbirds. They are building their tiny nests everywhere and they will soon have 2 of the teensiest eggs you have ever seen.

Did you notice the tags in this most recent journal? Love. There is a lot of it here to be sure.

Kdemer-hang in there, okay? We are here for you!
ForBea- Welcome! You are in the best place you could possibly be!

Thank you Nora, I am fairly new to this forum so I may be over posting lol..
I hope to be of help once i can heal myself
Thank you thank you thank you for all the support.. I am doing this alone and notice even my husband is of no support or understanding right now.

KD - you've come off of so much, your brain is recovering. yes, 5htp is a precursor or seratonin and is naturally occurring so would be safe to try. i started taking it during my effexor taper, and it has helped loads.

No such thing as over-posting! =)

Nora - Yes I DID see that this morning! =) I guess maybe Emily has been watching over us. I have an awful flu/cough/cold/I don't know...so I'm interested in this Vicks' Vapor Rub. I've never tried it, but this chest thing is ridiculous. Take pictures of the eggies when they happen!!

Ok shorter version.lol I was advised to get the 5HTP by some on this board and I really think it has helped. It's only been 3 days, but it seems to help with the low energy a bit and the gloomies.....
Yesterday was a pretty good day. My middle child had a spider bite that turned into a skin infection on her hand and fingers. Went to the dr. and hopefully she will be fine. on meds to clear it up. then she and I stopped for lunch and got fried pickles of all things.. we laughed and had fun.. I opened the sun roof and we did some channel surfing on the radio. We listened to Queen, AC/DC, a country song about a "Farmers Daughter" and Dirty Dancing song the way it was ment to be sung, the one without the "Dirty Bit" If you've heard it, you know what I'm talking about ... I laughed because these aren't songs I'd normally listen too. Not since my younger years and she laughed because she was seeing me, the goofy happy mom I use to be.... It was just a glimpse but she saw it and it made her happy. It was a good day...
Today hasn't been as good. Maybe I just over did it yesterday and I hope thats what it is because I have felt so positive about this being easier this time. I am letting myself start to worry that maybe it has just taken the withdrawals longer to hit this time. I beg that it's not because I can't stand the thought, I guess that everyone has had these worries and I'm no different.. Maybe I'll wake up tomorrow and it will be a good day. Maybe even a great day.... Ugh Ugh Ugh! stupid Tramadol...

Nora, wow you've never seen a Cardinal in real life? How about a Blue Jay. Do you have those? I have some pics of those too. I love the hummingbirds. We put out feeders in the spring and they are everywhere, oh and the Woodpeckers.. I think I will work on adding pics to my journal. did I see a way to do that, or I could be imagining it.lol.. I

JMA-I hang my head in shame that I have never seen a blue jay. We have scrub jays here, oh! We have parrots! Every morning a flock flies past our house, squawking happily. And every evening they come home. They are green with red on their heads and faces. And you are able to upload pics!! I would love to see more of your work. And unfortunately, one day to the next can be good or bad. I was able to get myself together on Saturday and do some stuff with my husband. But the days after have not been so easy.

DamTram-I need to see if the hummingbirds made a nest in our courtyard. Last year, one made a nest in our parking garage, I wonder if anyone is re-using it. I love vick's rub. Rain said he found some online that is not all greasy. I like that idea. I just buy mine at the drugstore. It is old-school greasy, but it makes me nostalgic. I was able to find a GABA sublingual, but not 5htp. Also B6. Both are pretty close.

I had a tiny burst of energy which allowed me to do some dishes, but once again I am down for the count. I gave myself a vick's rub and turned on my heating pad (still having trouble with cold feet) my kitty, Byron (see picture) decided that the heating pad was for him too, cand curled up on my legs. He is a big boy, not fat, just big. Although he is cutting off my circulation a tiny bit, it is great to have him here with me. I feel so bad for my husband & kitties the first 2 weeks of my W/D. I could not be touched, and I felt bad to tell my husband this, but worse for the kitties, since they don't know what is going on, sweet babies.

Remember, you recovery is based on a lot of things: age, sex weight, health, height, length of time taking it, and amount taken. I took it for 3-5 years, but it got out of hand in the last year. So I try to be patient. I am not as frustrated as before. Maybe I am beginning to relax into it? Doesn't feel like it to me. I have surrendered to recovery, but I have not ceased fire on Tramadol. That is something I will always fight.

Nora - I just showed my boy cat your Byron picture and do you know what he did? He stared at it for 15 seconds and then started YAAAAWNING! Just like people! That's so strange that you couldn't find 5htp...it was GABA I had a hard time finding. NEVER give up the fight...but when you relax into the SYMPTOMS, then you cannot feel fear. Fear will lose the war.

hey guys,
Got myself to leave the house today. Started some herbal. havent taken a norco all day too. Not feeling as bad as I was. still lots of symptoms, but either its getting better or I'm getting used to the hell. The further away you get, the more messed up I realize I was or am still. Not as bad for sure. Like I said before, This post was a sanity saver for sure. I'm looking back on the last month of crazy out of control anxiety, and everything that went along with it, and can't believe I made it through it so far. Definitely getting better though. Hopefully I can pick up the pieces of my life with the strength I feel I'm gaining. By the way I'm a 40 year old father of 4 children I couldn't have ordered up any better. They have suffered from these crazy docs and meds too. Can only do what I can do now. gonna try to eat something. Check back later and thanks again everyone and I'm sorry for what you are going through. I can say already it will get alot better, It couldn't get any worse really. I Hope.

Great to see new brave people here, I'm still struggling, but moving forward none the less. Work is so intense this week & I cannot use commuter at work anymore. So it's rough not checking in here as much- you are all in my thoughts....i like that I know where you are, it's a good feeling. An awful lot of good is happening here.

Forbea70, I can relate, I am 40 and the mother of three. i am so ashamed of the time I have wasted on this crap that has over taken my life... I have found that I feel better when I get out of the house. Mostly in the car with the radio up. I have run out of things to do... I can't wait til tomorrow to go grocery shopping just to get out..lol.. I just seem to feel over all crummy when home alone..funny thing is, I wanted to be left alone while taking this junk.. Good luck and congrats on cutting back on the norco and doing so good.

I felt gloomy all day and then went to pick the kids up from church and socialized a bit and felt so much better just talking to people and being away from the house.... I'm running out of places to go during the day..I'm thinking about going to the Youth Center a few times a week to just get out and exercise...I'm going to end up the crazy lady sitting on a bench at the mall talking to everyone, just to keep myself busy! Ha!
I had a hard time finding the 5HTP. Wal-mart was out, Walgreen's doesn't seem to carry it and I finally went to GNC and found it there. I seem to be colder than everyone else in the house. I am so thankful for the electric blanket my hubby got me for Christmas. It's so nice and Nora, my feet are freezing all the time....

okay - after I said that about no energy, in a fog, etc. I went and got a 6 hr energy shot with lots of vitamins (included ones recommended for us) and some caffiene. After 30 minutes or so I felt better. Went to the organ and played for two hours. I am better now. Going to try and go to bed. Love to all~

2:26 a.m. I lay down about 10:30. Got up due to the jitters at 11:30, polished silver for an hour, then went back to work and played the organ till about 2. I guess I am up for the night. That's ok. Tomorrow is a new and glorious day regardless of what the rest of this night brings. -Randy

Thank Goodness I found this site... I am so hopeful listening to you all. I am keeping good thoughts for you all with your success. Today seems bit better (I say that as I am fearful it may not last all day) Thank you for the info on 5 HTP and Valerian went out yesterday and bought both. It took all i had to drag myself out, my poor daughter wanted to shop with Mom and I just was in no shape to go, But I did...Last night took both and actually slept until 4am. I am one before all this to be comatose sleeper. I woke up in better frame of mind, and actually could hold a better conversation with my husband. Usually wake up with awful dreadful thoughts.
I have been pretty scared of my heart with all that has been going on, when I mentioned it to the LAME Doctor who insists you CANT be addicted to Tram!! He told me I needed to go to a cardiologist, Hmmmm.. The more I read the more I understand that this could be part of detoxing. Not sure what to do now, go to the Cardiologist or wait it out. Irregular heart rhythm and it feels like the heart slams hard into my chest. The more I read on Tram the more I get irate with that Doctor. Prescribing it for 12 years and mixing it with so many different anti-depressants. Its lucky I am not much much worse or forbid Dead. I am printing out what the PDR says about Tram and going to his office and insist he read it. Grrrrrr makes me so mad he treated me like he has.
I wish you all a great day,
Thanks for listening and caring. It truly has been A HUGE help!!

KD...I have chronic atrial fibrillatio, and I have never felt my heart was out of whack even when taking huge doses up to 20 pills a day. The problem was diagnosed before Tram. I was taking alot of medication - heart pills, blood pressure, blood thinner. They made me feel awful, so I took other drugs recreationally. I finally lost weight and told the doctor that I felt horrible on the drugs and was stopping them. He said okay, take a baby asparin a day. I love my doctor. He listens. He said it would not be his first recommendation to stop the heart med, but seeing as I had lived a year from diagnosis and it had probably benn going on for a long time it was a risk he could accept. He said people live with this.

It wouldn't hurt to go see the doctor. However if these symptoms happened after you started taking Tram, maybe it doesn't matter. I'd want to know if I had a heart problem. On the flip side, when my doctor noticed mine, I got stuck in the hospital for five days. Yuck, and they accomplished nothing.

I think we often know our bodies better than the doctors.

Well, I may have gotten some fitful sleep, don't really remember. Still sitting in bed with restlessness talking to Joe. I really hate to go to work early and not get paid, but I guess I will....can't stand the bed ANY longer!

I will say this. Other than being tired, I have my clarity. I am glad I got rid of the valium. Praying that today is special...

It is great if you have a Doctor who actually wants to help, Sounds like you went thru a lot Randy... Will pray for you to keep gaining good health. I didn't notice anything irregular about my heart up til I stopped the Tramadol. I do have some little issues with my heart due to Lyme disease. I will keep the appointment today.. Just scary.. Heart monitor for a week I think they were talking about.. Ughhh.. Well need to get ready... Have a great day...

Kdemers4, My heart feels like its sometimes beating a little faster than normal and then feels like it stops for half a second then a big thud or burst feeling and then back to beating the way it had been before..Kind of like it's skipping a beat.... Mine started doing this really bad about 3 weeks before I quit, but I had cut down from 10 to 12 a day to about 5 or 6, so I think it had to do with cutting my dose.. Mine has done this just ever once in a while all through my Tramadol use. Before my Tram use .y heart would skip a beat every once in a great while.... Everything I read has nothing about it affecting you heart, but I know mine would speed up when I took larger doses...

Maybe I need to talk to the Dr. about. I was put on Blood Pressure meds 3 years ago, but stopped them because they made me so tired the next day then I lost about 50 lbs and it went back to normal. The last 3 times I have been to see him my blood pressure has been around 155/110 and he never says anything. It's like the nurse takes all the info and he never reads it..But It is my fault because I never said anything to him fo fear he would take my Tramadol away... Pretty sad I could have had a stroke and I'm was more worried about loosing my trams.. yep I'm done.. My kids don't deserve a dead mom and that scares me.... Did anyone else have blood pressure problems while on Tramadol?

Yuck on you crummy sleep Randy. Hope today isn't too bad for you...

I tried to sleep without taking anything and laid in bed til almost 12am so I got up and took 2 melatonin and then slept until 5am. I'll take it, but boy I'm not good at functioning on 5 hours sleep. 'I'm an 8 hour a night kinda girl, or I'm useless..
This evening will be a whole week Tram free.. I am so excited!

Hello everyone - old and new! Haven't posted for a while so thought I would pop in and say hello and how pleased we are to see so many more people kicking the tramadol poison into touch! Day 37 for my husband clear of tramadol. For all of you in the early stages - days and weeks - believe everyone on here when they say LIFE DOES GET BETTER! He suffered all the 'usual' symptoms following tramadol withdrawal - flu, night sweats horrendous sore throat, depression, anxiety, VERY horrendous RLS, mouth ulcers, bloated tummy, and insomnia. This has not been a quick or easy process. He stopped cold turkey from a relatively low dose taken over a 3 year period There were several days during this journey when we felt he had turned a corner only to find that the next day he was back down again. However - everyone talks about the magic 30 day mark and in the past few days he has been sleeping well. Some posters feel a lot better earlier for others it takes a lot longer but one thing is for sure it will take as long as it takes. Other than mild RLS and problems getting off to sleep all the other symptoms seem to have gone - we are keeping everything crossed they will stay gone! Life is getting back to what it was pre back problem and tramadol. His back pain is strangely better since he stiopped the medication! Many previous posters report that their original symptoms have also improved since they stopped taking tramadol. He has found that taking anything ie melatonin, valerian even the Hylands seemed to make things worse for him - so he hasn't and for him this has been positive - everyone has to find their own way to cope.

We are both so pleased that new people are finding their way to this forum - thank God for Emily! You will find strength and support here so please keep looking in - it has made a huge difference to us - we are a long way from home without family or friends support and having to deal with a foreign language, medical system etc This has been a challenge to say the least so we decided to go it alone! Without the good people here we would not have coped - so clueless were we - so thankyou Madtram, Steph and co.

Please remember that the recovery is not linear - you will have good and bad days so please don't be discouraged - every day IS a step foreward. Accept the love and support of those around you, and if you are alone remember you have people here who will give you the support you need. We are now both anticipating with joy our son visiting us for half term - I feel he will see a huge difference in his father - more awake than he's been for the past 3 years for sure! Hang in there tram warriors - you can all do this! Remember one day at a time. Love and respect to you allx

Tramadol causes respiratory depression, worse at high doses....which is the leading cause of death from overdose on opioid analgesics. Coming off of the Tramadol, your heart and respiration have to re-learn how to work...just like your brain/nerves. During my first week of withdrawals, I almost checked myself into the hospital because of the palpitations and inability to take a deep breath.

Remember -- most of us forgot that we had a heart that beat when we were taking Tram..because we simply couldn't feel it. If you go back to Emily's early journals, she says this perfectly. You are just more conscious of what your heart is doing, now. Good to go listen to what the cardiologist has to say, but I'm pretty positive that most of this is coming from your heart recovering.

Let us know what the Cardio says! So glad everyone is feeling so WONDERFULLY positive, today! Randy - I'm so glad you were able to sleep at all after taking an energy drink at NIGHT! Hopefully you will have the same great results during the day. I like how you said, 'I hope this day will be special'. I'm 100000% sure it will be, for you. =)

At home again with Influenza A, but turned to antibiotics and my fever is finally down. I even broke down yesterday from the monsters in my lungs and pain in my joints and bought Nyquil, which I swore I'd never do again (as I used to use it as a sleep-aid...DANGEROUS!). But, it helped IMMENSELY. I'm feeling much better, now.

Just a quick check in...Dam, I took the energy drink in early afternoon. I was extremely tired at 10 p.m. but once I got in bed I couldn't get calm and I couldn't lay still, so I just got up. Cleaned the kitchen, polished my dining room table, polished some silver, left the house and took my vintage Cadillac for a ride, ended up at the church and played the organ till 2 a.m. Came home and eventually got some fitful rest.

Woke up and left early for work via Micky D's...breakfast gave me some energy, and at 11 I took another energy drink. I can't quote the stuff in it but it is mostly things the Thomas recipe or Tram people talk about. I think I am going to look for some 5HTP and Valerian.

I'm having a good day...just not like Monday. I won't expect days like that any more. When they come they will be a gift.

My tracker is off. I stopped a day earlier. I know I am fussing compared to my earlier postings, but I am so THRILLED that I am doing this, and so looking forward to more and more elapsed time away from this poison. Like I said this morning. I have my clarity and my feelings. That is worth everything!

Oh Tramadol, you harsh mistress. Was woken up around four with W/D symptoms I had in the beginning of my detox, but not as strong as it was back then. But I knew what it was and I hated it. I took some hylands calm and valerian root, and managed to sleep for another 4 hours. I ordered some supplements and mineral salts from soap.com. The prices are great, free shipping over $25 and 20% for first time customers with a code. For those experiencing muscle pain, I reccommend Arnica.

JMA/KD oh yeah! I usually have dangerously low blood pressure, and it totally shot up my first few weeks of W/D. My pulse was crazy too. While in rehab they took my pulse and vitals 2 times a day. What you are concerned about is a pretty normal W/D side effect, but certainly it will not hurt to see your Dr. You may experience bloating and and stomach cramps (bad ones where I thought I might burst open with an alien baby or I was wearing a steel boned corset that was laced too tight). Your mileage my vary. It may be worse for me wnd fine for you. I just wanted to give you all a heads up.

At day 44 i am better but not completely out of the woods. I am having a tiny relapse, heart pounding, shaky, etc. I feel like Tramadol is a toxic roommate/lover/friend who is taking their sweet time moving out of my house. I can be patient while you get your things together and get out, but OUT you will go, and you are no longer welcome in this house/my body. Mineral baths, hot baths in general are very relaxing. Emily sung the praises of BathTherapy Lavender. I use a different kind that has a good mineral content, you can use Epsom salts In a pinch. It will relax you. If you cannot take a bath, a hot shower will do good as well.

KAZ! So glad to see your update! Good work to you and your husband! I know the journey has been tough for the both of you! But you have both stuck it out and have a lot to show for it. You are absolutely right, this will take as long as it takes.

And Randy, my Randy, I am glad you have kept yourself busy during the rough patches. It helps the time go by. Your attitude is infectious. Thank you, and thanks to everyone else for the positive energy you all embed in this forum.

I am hoping to get my sorry person into the bath today. My arm is acting up, but I think a hot bath would do me good!

Thank you Randy for being a day off on your tracker, I knew you stopped a day before me and i was just sick thinking I was a day behind what I am... pretty sad how much a days difference means to me but ugh it's just one more day closer to feeling all the better...
I've been drinking Ensure Clinical Strength...Has all kinds of vitamins and minerals and proteins, ..........prebiotics, antioxidants and amino acids.... whether it's doing any good or not , who knows. The chocolate shake taste yummy and I'm just going to drink one every morning and pretend they are...lol

JMA, you know, when you get down to it, what's a day? I know when I took the last pills (a Wed nite) and when the s*** hit the fan (a Thurs nite). All that matters is we all stay the course. Each new day is one more mile down the road away from the poison I took for nearly two years.

I've had a really good day today. I mean, like I have already repeated myself, it could be better, but I got all my office work done so I can enjoy Friday and Saturday off. I took the old Cadillac I gave myself as a consolation for the suffering I am now enduring to a body shop to get an estimate for exterior restoration (replacement of these plastic fender extensions in the four corners of the car - they rot with age, painting the car, and redying the vinyl roof. It is about $1,200 but then my 22 year old Cadillac will look really grand. The leather inside is a burnt orange color with chrome, leather, shag carpet, fake wood, and just screams the 70's even though it is a 1989. I got it from the kids of a little old lady.) Sorry, that is probably TMI...

Nora...Did I tell you I lived in the bay area for almost 10 years? Worked in Los Altos, but lived in Sunnyvale. Loved it except for how expensive it was.

Seems like when I lay down I get the jitters. What is it about this tramapuke leftovers that can't stand the bed?

You know Randy, you kept saying that you can really hear and enjoy playing your music since off this stuff? the past few days I would get in the car and be feeling blah and then I would turn on the radio and do alot of channel surfing. Old music, new music, Country, Christian rock..... All of it just puts me in a happy place. makes me feel alive. Tonight I got my radio out and turned it on in the kitchen and me and my girls had a good time singing and cleanning. Tonight my oldest and I youtubed a bunch of 80's songs and she really enjoyed hearing the kind of music I use to listen to.. Now my youngest informed me "That the man sounded really bad and when I told her it was an 80's band she said " ooooh thats why he sounds so bad" Kids.. But you are right. i can really "hear" music and it puts me in such a better place.. wow..
Hope you sleep good tonight!

Dam Tram I can't drink those. last time I would drink 2 a day and Ugh. I would be shakey by night... Hope your feeling at least a teensie bit better by now!

Kaz, I am soglad things are looking up for you all. Your Husbands story is one of the ones I followed, so it is still fresh in my mind and know what a horrible time he had and is now feeling so much better, gives me engouragment. Keep up the good work!!!

I am hoping that I remane in good spirits through the weekend. i think I would like to take the girls to neat place to take picture and maybe take in a few flea markets... My old soles love doing things like that.. They are a gift. My youngest told me today that I have always been a good good mommy, but latley I have been a good,good, good, good. Mommy and more funnier. Made me want to cry. for the sadness and for the happiness. Could they really tell I was different?

Hope everyone is having the strength to push through this, even the ones that are lurking, not ready to jump aboard or tell their story yet. Keep it up, it's one day at a time. Let these people help you. They have helped me so much!

Yesterday was amazing, I actually felt wonderful like being in a new body.. Experiencing things with a clear head. ( I still had WD's but I ignored them) Thank you for mentioning the 5 HTP and the Valeran again.. Walked 3 miles and felt like a new beginning was close..

Well today was a weepy one, My body anxiety/shakes drove me over the top. Cried and cried. Maybe its ok to feel sad. Sad that I did this to my body, mind, and family.

The cardiologist hooked me up to a small heart monitor that I brought home for next 4 days, when I am having palpitations I have to record it.
DAMDam- Thank you for that insight on our hearts that makes a lot of sense..
Jomas- I too have had extremely high blood pressure for over past 2 years. (La-mo Dr) Blood pressure pills, but I know now it was tramadol causing other issues. Two days ago spiked up to 155/90 Uncontrollable speeding in my heart. Scary!!
Its so comforting knowing that others are here explaining what their bodies are doing too.. Other than here, I have done this alone, Dr is a putz, husband doesn't understand, and my kiddos just too young to understand.
I was so scared not knowing what I was going to go thru when I found this site.. YOU ARE ALL AMAZING, Keep the faith and remain strong.. We can do it..

To those who asked if the energy boost may be causing my issues. NO. I call them jitters but it is RLS and everything else. It is like being a vampire...the symptoms fade into the far background until I try to relax in the bed, and WHAM. Major restlessness. It isn't something I can't live through, but it is so unpleasant. I can't evem surf comfortably. I realize they (the energy boost) may certainly enhance the negatives of RLS, but I have been taking them just before lunch. So by midnight they should be metabolized, I have it on my list to get 5HTP and Valerian, but will have to wait until March payday.

Without the enrgy boost I've been feeling lethargic and having a hard time in the mornings after a couple of hours in the office. Wake (excuse me, edit that to read GET up) feeling fine and around 11 it hits and I can't function - negative attitude and such. The energy drink helps.

We are entering 5 days of warm but overcast weather. Some minor rain showers in the forcast, too. Not good for me. The sun is my healer.

I'm off today. I have woken up relaxed and did get some good bouts of sleep. So things are okay. I need to get motivated to work in the house some more. Hard to do when Joe is around. I am a good Episcopalian. I like my antiques and things and everything has to be "gay correct." I have let that go because Joe, even though he is gay, is not so concerned about looks. He is concerned about clean, lol.

Back to bed, I think I can actually get a few more winks. Love to all....Namaste -Randy

Oh Randy! Ha!! 'Gay Correct' I have to tell my gay parents that! They will love it! And my apartment manager who is a bit sloppy and we joke that he is a 'bad gay' as he loves gaming and comic books, and is kinda geeky looking (very different from the perfectly airbrushed gay men in our neighborhood). His partner is very neat and organized. I would love to talk antiques with you. I collect a lot of 20th century furniture and furnishings, but mostly I collect vintage clothes, shoes, underwear and jewelry for myself and my husband. Our wedding was new look vintage. I also restore vintage hats, and used to make custom vintage clothes when sewing was not so painful. I am starting to sell off stuff I don't wear as much, and looking forward to getting out my with my husband so I can start dressing up again.

I find that music has been a big cure for me. I downloaded a bunch of music after I got out of the hospital, and my husband and I love to to dance to some local radio programs that do swing and big band music. Also, we have some great pandora stations, so I will get funky with James Brown or charleston madly to The Squirrel Nut Zippers. It helps me excersise a bit, and my husband and I get to do something together that is active.. I have heard a lot of people mention music as instrumental (pardon the pun) to their recovery.

Oh BTW today is my 45th day. 6 weeks of this garbage. And there is an improvement. More moments and instances that I just feel like me, and not a person in recovery. After my bath yesterday I felt much better, and got a few things done around the house.

This weekend a dear friend who I was close to in my early 20's is going to be in town. I am really looking forward to seeing her. We found each other on a networking site and it has been great. A mutual friend of ours had died in the last 10 years of heart failure. He was only 35, but drinking and smoking, and probably doing other drugs like they were going out of style. His story has become a cautionary tale amongst all who knew him. I think about how that could have been me, just substitute booze with Tramadol.

To those of you who are early in your recovery, stick with it. 45 days and I think if I looked a Tramadol in the eye, I would want to force feed it to some of these stupid doctors who think it is no more dangerous than advil.

Hello ,first time posting.
I am still on tramadol,have been for bout 5 years but every single day now for about 2 or 3.about 6 months ago I ran out of trams and couldnt get more right away. I tryed Methadone and I didnt feel the ugly wd symptoms no more.I decided to go as long as I can to hope to quit.I didnt take no trams for about a week then I ran out of methadones and start feeling no energy. Well I dont know if I was just really tired or withdrwaing again.May be methadones or almost the same as trams and thats why I didnt feel w/d symptoms when i was on them ? Thats probably the easiest way to get off trams if there not the same. I dont see it happening though because methadones are probably hard to get.I long for a cure though its getting to be expensive. Anyones thoughts on the methadones ?

Tony-welcome. I understand you want to get off the Tramadoo, but I am kinda leery about using another med to get ease the addiction of another. Yes it can work, but eventually you have to get off that as well. and being that Tramadol's W/D is not linear, I am not sure how long one would need methadone. If you cannot see a Dr then I would do some online research. What little I have read it does not seem like a pleasant drug to withdrawal from either, and being a drug used to withdraw from more heavy duty narcotics like Morphine or Herion, it maybe something you might want to avoid.

There is no easy way to get off Tramadol. I think all of us can agree to that. And although we do share a lot of the same withdrawal symptoms, the length of time in which you experience it can vary due to your dosing, size, weight, height, gender, etc. And it is not going to be pain free whether you taper down or go cold turkey.

I am confident in suggesting the Thomas recipe to get off the meds. Aside from the klonopin, the bulk of it is all natural, and that way you can start putting good stuff in your body and get rid of the toxic stuff.

Hey guys. I didn't have a fever this morning (ok, I had a low-grade fever), so I went to work. By mid-day, I knew my fever was through the roof and a colleague gave me some naproxen, but they didn't even make a dent. I finally came home at the end of the school day, to the chagrin of my colleagues who don't trust me since my medical leave and we were supposed to meet. I got home and my fever was over a 100, so I took ibuprofen and acetaminophen. I'm feeling less like I'm about to go into shock, which is good...because I'm having dinner with my favorite ex-colleague and my old principal and I really would rather die than not go. Just wanted to let you know that I'll be down for the count for the next few days. My dad is going to order some Tamiflu, since antibiotics made it worse. Hoping for a speedy recovery. Stay healthy, everyone!
Welcome, Tony! I definitely do not think that methadone will solve the problem of being addicted to this ****. It will only prolongue another withdrawal and, as you said, get very expensive. Best of luck in getting the strength to get off! =) We are all here for you.

Nora - I am spending hours at the pipe organ. I am waiting for the cops to come banging down the church door the next time I am there at 2 a.m. But what a release, , and my new found brain and emotions are getting a good workout!

All - I bought some 50mg 5HTP caps. Directions say one a day. Can I take three or four spread out during the day. This is supposed to help bring the seratonin back in line, right? I think this is what is making me feel funky right now. Not depressed or anything, just zombie-ish and Joe told me those energy shots can be habit forming, too.

Randy, I think you can take more spread out. Mine are 100mg and I take one a morning. I am thinking of taking another in the afternoons. There was a 200mg too, but I didn't know what I was supose to take so I just the 100's.. I can always take an extra.. I would also like to know how many Mg's a day people were taking. I used the energyu shots the last time and they helped. I picked some up today for when I am having a bad,energyless day....

I am mentally feeling pretty good. Just have times of all of a sudden very tired and then a while later I have spurts of energy.. Instead of the brain zaps now, I have a dizzy feeling when I turn my head either way. kind of the dizzy feeling's you get when you have fever.. I slept 6 1/2 hours last night and only interupted for a potty break once... Longest stretch of sleep so for with out something strong. Just my normal 2 Melatonin's...

DamTram, I sure hope you can take this weekend and get better, before going back to school.... I shutter to think of dealing with all those kids and feeling like that..lol

Tony, Nora is right.. I've done this a few times and everytime there has been different W/D symptoms... The first time I did not use the thomas recipe and OH my. it was horrible.. this time and the last I have used it. (this tme faithfully and it has been the better of them all. of course I was taking less this time too, so it all just depends...)

Randy and JMA - I was taking 100mg once per day, but bought 50mg's when I ran out...so now take one in the morning and one at night. Again, I was only taking them to try to avoid the Effexor-W/D-brain-zaps...so there are days, now, when I'll only take 50mg. I'm not depressed, so either it's working or I wouldn't be depressed anyway. Who knows. I'm not going to NOT take anything until I get my retrovirals tomorrow and get this flu thing outta here.

Nora and JMA - thank you so much for your kind words! I was such a mess by 1:30pm today, but luckily my kids had to take a test and then have a party (but I'm so strict that 'partying' involves quietly playing math games in pairs), so I was able to survive. Only my colleagues didn't seem to understand that I had to go home immediately to get Tylenol and Advil into my system. My students seem to understand illness better.

I survived dinner, but just barely. It was like the clock struck, and I thought I was going to die. Somehow I made it home, and now I'm reclining and plan to be for several days. This flu is BOGUS! I must not have gotten a flu shot this year, what with all this Tramaggeddon that was going on. *kick Tramadol in the head, AGAIN*

what injections are you referring to? 5htp is what i've used when coming off of effexor...it is a seratonin precursor. it has been used in tramadol w/d to help with the gloomy feelings of depression. do you have a tapering plan?

Morning all...The weather here is wonderful as far as it is warm, but overcast. Some sun breaks through in the afternooon. It is going back to winter next week after a rainy Sunday.

I would think if tramapuke messes up our seratonin, which is so important, then everyone should take the 5htp. I am taking 100mg - a 50 in the morning, and a 50 when I come in from work. I also got the valerian. It seems to be working. Better than the Hyland's. But you know, I have an idea simply taking a pill can help regardless of what it is.

Now beginning 10 day down the road. I feel okay. I had some really sucky days following a fabulous one last week and I hope that those days don't come consistently any more. I was taking about 5 trams every morning about 6 a.m. going back to bed and waking up at 7 ready to conquor the world. I am feeling better in the morning now after learning to eat some cereal and take my vatimins, but I miss the comfort I once new.

It does get better every day. The morning ,I mean. I don't have to work, but I so want to get out of bed and get excited about a project.

Well last night I went to bed without taking any melantonin.. I slept 6 1/2 hours... I got up before anyone this morning.. On the trams I was the last to bed and the last to rise on the weekend..It has been at least a year since I got up on a weekend and fixed breakfast.. Everyone's going to be shocked... I am about sick of the swishy brain zaps.. I had them 10 years ago with Effexor, So, I know that's what is more than likely causing these for me. Thinking I might need to up my 5HTP and see if that helps.. I feel better this day 9 than I did day 9 a year ago and it gives me so much hope that I'm going to make it this time!! No doubt at all. I have a close family member that quit the same time I did and is having a hard time. She says that it is better this time for her too, but I worry the minute her refill is available, she will be right back on them. I don't want to see her get to that 15 to 20 a day habit that is so easy to do, again... It does make it hard to know she will have them and I could at, at any minute, ask , and have some just like that. (has happened everytime in the past)... I have told her, I don't want to even know when she has them and to keep them put up so I won't even be tempted. I know I'm the one that has to be strong enough to just say no, but I just want to make sure I have a little help..lol
Oh and my new nickname for tramadol is Trama-troll.. Even off of it, It's still "trolling" my life.. making itself present at the worst times! I can be feeling good and bam all of a sudden, a brain zap or a sudden urge to lay down in isle 9 at the store..

DamTram, i didn't do a flu shot either, everyone else in the house did.. Sorry you were felling so bad, makes it so hard to enjoy somethihng like that, when all you want to do is lay your head on the table and not move.. I hope you wake up today 99.9% better... :)

It's partly cloudy here today, hopping the sun comes out for a bit. Think I might go out and take picture's with my two oldest at the lake...
Have a great day everyone!
JMA

Raining. Took my meds a little late so now I am jonesing a little. I thought this would be past me, but I guess it is the train wreck that is Tramadol. At least I hit my 45 day mark. Hope everyone hass a great day! Enjoy your weekends, people!

45 DAYS?!? ZOMG!! that's, like, almost the 60 day mark when A&E intervention goes back to check on the addicts and they're almost always soooo glad to be alive and living life...sober! Congrats, Nora! What's a 'lil train wreck, as long as we SURVIVED?!

it's definitely not too fast...i know you went down quickly from 50 to 30 before, how did that turn out?

have you talked with your doctors about a taper plan? that's really the best person to talk to about this...as long as you make the doctor read the most up-to-date information on Tramadol in the physician's desk reference and from the federal drug administration.

people on this site say that there ISN'T a 'good' way to come off of this drug. the risk of seizures becomes when you come off (cold turkey or not) and THEN TRY TO TAKE THE DRUGS AGAIN. that's when people have reported seizures.

remember that there are people who were on this drug as long as you, but at 1/30 of the amount, who still had awful withdrawals. we all have have had horrible withdrawals, at least those first 5 days...with lingering effects much longer.

the people who report 'not' having withdrawals are the people who have withheld the information that they were supplementing with high doses of other opiates.

please, please talk with your doctor(s). once they are informed of the evils of this drug, they really are the best suited to advise about getting off of it. it's the doctors who were uninformed or in denial about the truths of the drug that did so many of us so, so wrong.

I'm not like most of you - they were not prescribed - I discovered them. I spent 6K one summer on lortabs recreationally, and put them down. Still wanted to pop some kind of pill and my dad had trams. They were cheap.

I researched anything I have taken, so of course I heard my parents say how the doctor said they were far less likely to habit forming, etc, and I read the same thing.

I am SO mad at the drug company for making a concoction like this that has a double-whammy, and marketing as a miracle drug using the soundbites "non-narcotic" etc. They SHOULD pay.

But bottom line. I popped the first, second, third, fourth, and thousandth one. They did not force them on me. it is nice to be able to lay some of the blame for my situation elsewhere, but I only have myself to blame. I know my family history with substance abuse and I ignored it.

At least I am trying now and I am in control of my life. I am over the worst of the physical WD and you can't pay me to take a tramadol. I am so thankful to be clean from them. I just wish I would feel more better more faster. That's okay. I am clean.

I was put on them legitimately, took them legitimately, asked for legitimate help when I felt they were making me want MORE, and I was treated like a crazy person. I am no better or worse than anyone else who took this drugs, BUT THERE WERE COUNTLESS PROFESSIONALS NOT DOING THEIR JOBS IN MY CASE, ESPECIALLY WHEN I WAS BEGGING FOR THEM TO LISTEN. I would love to be part of a class-action lawsuit, but wouldn't even know where to begin. This ruined my career as a teacher, and screwed up my chances of saving myself by getting in a PhD program this year...as the essays were written in Tramafog. I'm going to be somewhere, working on a farm, next year...and that wouldn't have been my first or 10th choice. I would love some compensation for what this did to my career.

That does sound horrible. I'm so sorry. They did not ruin my job, but right now I am experiencing what most of you describe as long lasting problems, and I am so depressed. When I quit hydrocodone after 4 months of heavy use, I was back to myself within 5 days, and it was physical without the mental component of this s***.

I'm going to be living on energy stackers for a while and they have their own drawbacks. But I am clean. I am clean!

Going to play some music now. Loud pipe organs can be fun! That is therapy and work at the same time.

I totally agree and would love to be involved too. My (Fired) doctor still insists its in my head and no way addicting. I am starting to climb out of a hole I never thought it would be this bad.. I cannot stand how the certain doctors look the other way, or are too ignorant to look into what they are prescribing. 12 years for me, and so many out there with ailemtns looking for help.. We trust and what has it really gotten us? How very sad..
I have a long history of chronic ailments but I will never ever trust another Doctor again, Will live in pain rather than live with what I have gone thru with tramadol.

There is at least one class action lawsuit. I bet the Dr I saw in Emergency would at least serve a testimonial on how bad off I was in my first 72 hours of withdrawal.

Tramadol ruined me as well, Damtram. I could not go to school, do artwork, sleep, or any of the things I was trying to accomplish. I became agoraphobic, unable to see my Drs. Opportunities for art shows, lectures, comissions fell by the wayside. I tried to kill myself at least 3 times. I could not even care for myself properly. Nothing seemed to matter. I was extremely insecure and paranoid. It was hell.

I am sorry things have been so crummy Damtram, I don't blame for being angry or bitter. But you came out on the other side alive! And you have your whole life left. Now it will be an even longer life since you erraticated some nasty chemicals that were put in your body needlessly. I know you can turn this around to your advantage. There are going to be much better days ahead.

My doctor would DEFINITELY be willing to testify. Thank you for your kind words, Nora...it's so nice to know you're here with unconditional support, no matter how badly the crummies may be trying to attack you. All my love!

Nora, I went thru and still having moments of what you described.. My heart goes out to you.. The paranoia and insecurities almost devastated my marriage ( I was never insecure before but noticed in the past 1 yr it was Mind blowing).. I hope it all works out for you.. Go get em!!

I think my body is on a 6 1/2 hour wake up call..No matter when I go to bed, I can almost bet 6 1/2 hours later I'm going to be up! But, I'll take it since i'm not taking anything at all to help me sleep... I am having acid reflux/heartburn problems and I have NEVER had these problems before...Spent yesterday at the lake taking picture of my girls. It was nice and I got some really good pics of them and felt really good all day. Once late afternoon hit I could barley put one foot in front of the other. funny how it can hit just all of a sudden. Hopefully this will be another great day. Can ceanning house be fun? hasn't had a good cleanning since the last days of the trams...Yuck!

Good day to all and hope that today is a wonderful day for everyone!!!!

Thank You, KD. I have suffered from depression and anxiety since my teens. But it seemed more profound on the Tramadol. But lately I have a clarity I have not felt for a very long time.

JMA- I got the heartburn acid reflux pretty bad too. I think it might be from the supplements I was taking. Some antacids can interfere with. The strength of herbal supplements, vitamins, etc. Ginger can help, as well as fennel. I prefer the fennel, as it is a little more soothing for me, and does not interfere w/ my rest as Ginger can. You can buy it in capsules at any health food store/vitamin section.

For energy, try sublingual vitamin B12 or emergenC. EmergenC is pretty tasty, and you can put it in a glass of water or fruit juice. I am partial to the raspberry, but then again, I am partial to anything raspberry. 61/2 hours of sleep is fantastic with no kind of sleeping aids. I wonder if I will ever be able to fall asleep & stay asleep without having to take anything.

Hope everyone has a lovely Sunday. I am going to try to breathe deep and fall back to sleep again. It is still pretty early here on the west coast! Take care and be gentle to yourselves!

Ugh, Ive had the worst cold/flu the last 3 days starting with a devlish tickle spasm cough that I couldnt go 2 minutes without coughing..Fever and terribly sensitive scalp and eyes and back...And yet I had to work cause I can't afford to miss any with no sick days and no insurance..2 longest nights of my life the last 2....(except maybe early january in beginning wd's) Been taking aspirin, sudafed, vitamin c etc...Found a few pills beginning with the letter T in the car that wouldve fixed me right up....but I threw them in the trash...Fighting this battle without the devils help thanks! And a battle it is...How I didnt miss work is amazing me right now with all the feverish aches and pains and cough...Oh well not out of the woods yet gotta get back to bed for now and resume the fight tonight 3rd night in a row...benadryl and fake nyquil have helped in getting rest when home from work. Of course still havent quit cigs, cant think too hard about anything right now hurts me head too much...cheers to the poor working class that beat the flu without doctors or prescriptions...So much for healthcare....
Cant wait to feel well enough to remember how good it is to have quit tramadol..for 40 something days approaching 50...Jeez this goes down as the roughest winter ever for me!! Thank goodness theres a spring!

Nora, I feel for you, Keep the faith we can beat this...
Rain, I hope that it subsides for you. Nothing worse than fighting the addiction and being sick on top of it. Sounds like you are very strong and can do it!!
Have a great Sunday to everyone here... <3

Rain, nooooo, not you, TOO! I had a terrible feeling. Praise you for working through this virus...I had to go back to work on the 3rd day of it and my fever went through the roof. I just kept saying it was like day 2 tram wd all over again. After day 4, of this flu too, you'll start to feel the fever go down and the cough get more productive. I CAN'T BELIEVE YOU LOOKED THE TRAMABEAST IN THE EYES at this time!! You are so strong, and are SO in the clear!

I have about 1/3 of the Easyway book left...and every single sentence could be about recovering from Tramadol addiction, if you replaced 'nicotine' with Tramadol. It's not really a 'book' that you have to 'read', but more several, circular arguments to 'unbrainwash' your mind of what society has MADE you think about quitting smoking. If you PM me your address, I will send it to your home...that's how much I KNOW that this book is going to ensure that you smoke your last cigarette...and soon. You are supposed to keep smoking while you are reading it, but it's already working so much that I don't feel like it...but I'm going to follow the man's advice (I want to make no mistake!), and go buy my last pack. My last ciggie is in there, somewhere.

The whole point is that if you quit using willpower, you will suffer an itch that you can't scratch...for the rest of your life. Unless you scratch it, in which case...you have 'fed the little beast' and will go back to needing cigarettes again. That smoking doesn't actually cause stress relief or give support...it just EASES the anxiety/loneliness created by THE OTHER CIGARETTES, because smoking is a NICOTINE ADDICTION, not a habit.

Like Tramadol, you have to actually accept smoking as what it is: a killer and a life-ruiner, until you actually recognize that the only relief you get from smoking is created by your having smoked in the first place. Once you realize that you don't WANT put another one to your lips again (because it's pointless, and it only hurts you), you recognize that you will never smoke again. Like you would never put another Tramadol in your mouth. And you don't have to go through the rest of your life saying, "I miss smoking, I wish I had a cigarette right now, I hate myself for wanting a cigarette". Because you won't.

Hello all! I haven't posted in a while as I felt I didn't have anything to add that someone hadn't already said...everyone seems to be "in it" right now...and pulling through to the other side brilliantly! It’s great to see all the new people on here.

Just a thought: anger can be helpful in quitting/staying off tramadol, but it can also easily consume you. It's a fine line to walk. I’ve seen people take up causes and be very successful. I’ve also seen it narrow their vision until they saw nothing else.

I'm really posting today because I want to say this:

The other day my bf said, "you have much fewer days where you come home from work upset about your teaching or your students."

It's a simple thing...but it confirmed for me how much better my life is without tramadol. For those of us approaching the 2 month mark (and this started for me around 3-4 weeks) it can be difficult to see the big picture at times. We've pulled through that initial "high" of quitting the drug, and the worst of the WD symptoms have subsided. But our brains have not fully repaired themselves. It's not particularly gloomy, but it's not particularly bright out either. It's sort of flatline with good days and bad days. After talking to my therapist she confirmed that this is completely normal and to be expected. It will take time to be 100% (like 3-6 months) and so just be patient. Yes, life is MUCH better and for the most part I feel very strong. But I definitely have moments of wondering - is this as good as it gets? The answer is no. It keeps getting better. Which isn't to say, of course, that there won't be pain or tough days or boredom. But the brain is literally not firing at its full capacity - and so we wait – knowing it does get brighter.

Stay strong - those thinking of quitting, those on day 7, those at 2 weeks, at 1 month, at 2 months, 6 months and everyone in between....

Rain – I am so proud of you for not taking tram when you discovered them while sick! I can’t think of anything more difficult that getting sick at this stage of recovery and then finding a pill – I hope you feel better soon! (And don’t get me started on the healthcare system in the US…!)
And DamTram – my soul sister – I am so sorry you’ve been sick on top of everything else. I know you are strong enough to weather anything – but you’re being tested too much. It’s too much. A dear friend wrote the following to me when I told her of my addiction and how painful the WD/recovery/stuff with my bf was: “Years ago I read Endurance, do you know it? These guys were in constant peril. A memory I have of the book is their descriptions of sublime beauty found at the extremes of nature, so extreme in fact as to be deadly to the witness. Pain allows us sublime insight, but we cannot live there. This window will close of its own accord.” This is to say: pain is so instrumental in our growth as human beings…but too much will cripple us. You are dealing with so much right now. But the window will close. Waitlisted is hope. You didn’t like your boss- good riddance to that job. You mom will pull through. You are clean! And you clearly have so much going for you in other ways. I know (know in the way that I know for myself) that you will look back on this in 10 years, doctorate in hand, doing meaningful work, happy and healthy, and know this time in your life just showed yourself and the world just how strong you really are.
Kaz – so glad that you and your hubby are doing so well! Enjoy the visit with your son – I’m sure he will see amazing changes in his father!

Hello old and new tramatroopers,
I have had the flu too or something similar to it-I hardly ever get sick with bugs but this is two now since January. My head is in a very weird place. I haven't felt well at all since before the downfall day when I took a tram-sleepless-irritable, so very tired. I honestly think its the autoimmune problem now-I see the doctor in June-I am in no mood to go any sooner. I have had terrible paranoia, which is weird for me, off drugs anyway. I am not using the computer at work any more and I spend most of my time there so i am not posting much but I catch up on reading posts when I can. They always teach and help me. I hope to have better more happy posts soon-sorry so many have been sick with viruses and bugs. I am thinking quitting Tramadol was worst than quitting smoking but nothing else beats quitting smoking. It was the hardest thing for me until this. I smoked for 25 years, took tram 10-12 years. Took 6 months for me to get through the WD symptoms from smoking. I had emotional wd as well. Who knows how long this will take. This ordeal reminds me of when you delete a computer program but little bits and pieces of information from it are embedded everywhere throughout the computer and take forever to clear out, if ever. Tram infiltrated everywhere for me.

Thank you Steph and Damtram...Getting ready to go to work. The really tickly cough is 80% gone, now its an intense pressure in the forehead and eyes (sinus im sure). Stupid stupid viruses.I think your right Damtram day 3 and Ive turned a corner on this virus just gotta hang in there. We'll see how hard quitting cigs is soon enough but not today! lol....
Its been like flashing back to the 1st week of wd's, I HAD to just go into a trance like state of thinking "must just hang in there and keep going forward" I hardly remember the last 2 nights I was so fever fogged out, but losing 2 full days pay would be disaster so although risky Im sure, I'm glad I'm 'toughing' it out....
Was it Joan Jett that sang "Hit me with your best shot"?? Ought to be a theme for quitting lol, I've getting 'shot at' pretty darn good by life! Screw it what doesnt kill us makes us stronger.....I'm SO sick of feeling like an invalid mentally and physically. To think I was a tennis club champion and ran 10k races back in the 80's, I'm so ashamed to feel this weak. Well I still have my goals!! I WILL be playing again by spring or summer heck or high water.
To all still quitting here, stay strong, you will be tested, and you MUST succeed! I'm proud of myself (a little) and proud of everyone here still standing tall and moving forward with tramadol-free lives!!
Ok blabbermouth must go to work, yall have a great evening!

UGH! Today has been a baaad day.. It's like my brain wants to get up and go and my body is like NO WAY. but then when I do nothing I get this great big anxity feeling. I just want this day to be soooo over with!..

Rain....I thought about you this morning. I woke up feeling good. Got ready for work. Went to the trouble to dress up. Got outside and in the car (on which I spent $250 yesterday on planned maintenance) and the darn thing would not start. I am talking about my baby here, my 22 year old Cadillac. That sent me into a tailspin. I got the Geo out and went on to work, but darn.

I have some good neighbors - we all think it is just the starter. I went to Autozone and picked one up and the neighbor is going to put it on tomorrow for $50. But I just can seem to get back to "me." Joe is starting to "catch" some of my depression. Oh my....Dear God, please come to us and sustain us. We are trying to stay strong but we can't do this alone. We need you!

Joe is sacked out. I couldn't lay in bed so I was going to go to my folks. Went out the door, and there was a yard rake. I just spent two hours raking up pine straw (an excellent mulch, by the way) and piling it around the tree trunks and the foundation of the house. It helped me a lot. I feel a smidge like myself. Now what to do? 6:15 p.m., Joe is asleep and won't wake for a while, and I am sitting here. I guess I will go back to church and play the organ but d*** I was there all day to start with. We don't have evening service or anything so I will be alone.

Randy as you know, cars, the more you love em the more they cost! My baby has several ailments but she keeps running and its a miracle...Gotta change gear oil, brakes, rotors etc soon..real soon..
Been home 4 hours from work and this was the 1sst I could write due to fever and runny nose......Right about as I ended work my sinuses turned on like a spigot....No sudafed either ran out and all places to get it closed by 5pm sunday...(the real sudaphedrine)...along with faucet nose came fever and chills, so i HAD to lay down its all I COULD do.
However couldnt sleep, just like 1st 2 weeks of wd's...but at least fever broke awhile ago..now im just grabbing tissues about every 30-45 seconds..and my eyes..its liike trying to look into the wind with your head a foot off the ground on a windy day at the very sandy beach!. And its hard to think of solutions when your brain is spinning like a wet sponge riding the 'whip' at the county fair! ..well I think its vaporub time, the only thing I can think of for now, and more benadryl, which hasnt helped so far.. TGIM I'm off monday...gotta hope for improvement

Rain and everyone else with the cold/flu, I am so, so sorry...I can only imagine how having to deal with that along with the regular tramapoop crap must be. I am sending prayers, positive energy, and if you will have it Reiki your way to help you along.

I did last night without any over the counter sleep aids, but I did take a valerian cap. I did not sleep at all early on, but around 3 or 4 a.m. got to bed and woke up at 7:30. My wake up pills are as follows:

I ate some crackers with it, havent taken an energy stacker or anything just don't feel like the jitters right now. I'm okay, but not really interested in doing much. Maybe in a little while I will. But overall I feel pretty darn good. Off today. I honestly think working would be better.

I've got to try to find a way to reconnect with my partner. We live in the same house, but are not communicating much or doing the "together" things we usually do. I'm starting to feel better but still wanting to isolate a lot and not converse.

I'm so glad you're feeling ok, and so sorry about things with your partner. How many years has it been since neither of you were taking drugs (pot, pills, whatever) of any kind? As you very well know, sobriety changes people and relationships...particularly if those relationships contained one or more un-sober people for many years. Just like some of us are in therapy to learn who are and how to cope NOW that we're sober, couples therapy might be really beneficial to learn who you are as a SOBER couple and how to identify and best meet each other's SOBER needs. I can't even imagine working through that without a trained professional. It doesn't even matter that neither of you were addicts of any kind...just no longer having that medicinal form of coping can change everything. I hope you and Joe decide to work on it, together...I would hate for it to feel like only you feeling the distance and strain. All my love, Randy.

It isn't that bad. The issue is that I am dealing with a physical detox. I'm better now, but early on, I did not want to be touched and I moved into the guest room, etc. Now things are better...sleeping in the same bed, etc.

However, I am having to get used to not popping a pill to rev up or calm down...I'm getting used to living with my "normal" feelings. I am spending a lot of time just figuring stuff out.

Joe is used to me lavishing a lot of attention on him and I just haven't felt like it. He is very understanding. I just want to make sure he is feeling supported. =Randy

I slept 7 1/2 hours last night ( I did take 1 melatonin). I got up this morning and my back was hurting so bad, I could barely stand or sit. Got the kids off to school and went back to bed for 1 1/2 hours. When I got up, back ache was gone and I felt like I was getting a tummy virus..after about 4 hr all of a sudden I felt wonderful...UGH!!!. I am so glad I felt better, but I hope there won't be too many days like the way this one began.. I am hoping the tummy thing was because I drank an ensure clinical strenght and took my vitamins and all other naturals that are suppose to make me feel good, and just maybe took too much at once..WHEW! I am so thankful for this good day. Best one so far with exception of the start of it....

Randy, I can so relate. We are getting there, but it's taking us time. The withdrawal made it so much worse, but.I think in a way the tramadol made me a very distant person. I didn't wnt my hubby or my kids touching me very much and now that I am starting to feel better I can see how much it means to the kids for me not to be saying " Move" or " get up" I just didn't want anyone leaning on me...

Hope everyone that has the flu is doing better and has a great week!
JMA

I hardly recognise any of the names here anymore as I've been away in Vietnam for 3 1/2 weeks. I have no idea how long I've been Tram free now but I'm guessing it's around 3months. I'll see what the tracker says when I send this post. Anyway, it's a bit difficult to judge my progress at the moment as Vietnam was hard going at times and the beds in the accom weren't always the best so I've had lots of pain, discomfort and exhaustion and it's hard to know which is from tram w/d and which is just from me being too old to travel Asia on a budget :-) Anyway, I've promised myself that I'm done with one and 2 star accomodation and I will be staying in nothing lower than 3 star from now on. I'm 50 in a couple of weeks so it's about time. That's my excuse anyway :-)

So, Hi to you all and as much as I'm sorry that you all have to be here, I'm glad you found it. This forum is the only thing that helped me get through the early days of getting rid of the horrible Trams.

My sinus cold/flu was worse today than the last 3 days, to the point of rocking...Only 1 thing saved me from the intense pain and pressure (no not the evil pill)..I finally mustered the will to get to wallgreens and get more real sudafedrine..1/2 hour after taking 60mgs I could think straight again and rest...I can't tell you how bad sinus pain can be, some here probably know, its way up there on the scale when its bad...In fact, its how I originally came to know tramadol about 10 years ago...I was at an E.R. all night with similar pain and they failed miserably to help me having only given me a shot of torridol after 4 hours of waiting..(I never payed them either-was too angry) .. But I did get a prescription for 10 pills of you guessed it...It worked wonders..I was in heaven..I remember telling my fiance at the time that it was insane to feel that good and to never renew the prescription because it was very addictive...And I didnt. Many years went by till I found the stuff online overseas, and cheap too....well several bouts later I'm here...With some of the same pain as 10 years ago..Thank god for sudafed because nothing was working to stop the pain...Now it feels manageable with bufferin, and I'm hoping to heal with some rest and vitamin c, quercitin, and other natural stuff like oregano oil..and saline spray etc etc. Ya know, Ive dealt with all kinds of pain the last 10 years, but dang sinus can really mess you up...anyhow I have hope again..gotta keep keepin on...

I wondered about you! I have a member of my church choir and her husband (quite a bit of age on you) who are in the midst of a VIet Nam quest now. They left a couple of weeks ago. If it wasn't there it would have been somewhere else in the wilds of Asia. They are probably gone at least a fourth of every year.

I finally did it. I put those dam babies down, and at first I was so high just because I did it and I was not dieing I felt great. Now about two weeks in, I realize that there is a lot of "growing into my new skin" that has to be done. I did not believe y'all when you talked about how drastically tramadol changes everything about you, but of course, now, I know first hand.

Early last week I was getting scared because I really did not see any improvement one way or another. I felt a little like a walking zombie. I did only what was needed, but by the end of the week things were getting better. I understand the good day/bad day thing too.

Anyway...glad you said hello, and I hope your trip was awesome in spite of the lack of everyday comforts most of us take for granted.

No Tramadol for about a month. Does anyone at this stage recall muscle wasting and then not bieng able to develop muscle. I have been cycling a lot and doing physical work but dont seem to be developing muscle as I used to. I seem to have a lot of energy for a very short duration then legs feel really heavy , even climbing the stairs at midday felt like a hike up a hill. I am mid forties so should be bulking up with all the use

Guess who's back! So many new people to welcome. Well I missed about a whole thread. Phones going to die so short for now I haven't touched tramadol. And when I go to tell my doctor about the evil drug he reminds me that my percocet is ready.... ugh I didn't want it but couldn't say no so they sat in my glove box screaming to get out. I took a few dumped the rest. Had to take Vicodin for same old pain about 4 a day for the month but decided to go completely medicine free so new day 1 this time Vicodin ......not happy glad to see old friends

SheLiz-hello! Nice to have you back! I have been following your posts. Glad you enjoyed Vietnam. I hear it is gorgeous. And you deserve 3* hotels and up!

Wewar-nice to see you too. Regarding muscle tone-I have not exercised much since the Tramadol came in my life. Prior to that I was pretty athletic. I used to dance, fence, yoga, etc., but I feel like my muscles have atrophied since my recovery. I guess I just never noticed it on the Tramadol. In fact, I never noticed much that was important. I am at 48? days and I can say, the weakness and sleep will be the last things my body adjusts to. I can barely walk around the block, and I try to do it at least once a day. I am taking Arnica which is supposed to be helpful in restoring muscle tissue. It helps me with my chronic pain (which is not so chronic since I went off the Tramadol), it may help you. Also some magnesium. But keep on biking and exercising because it gets the poison out quicker. I am sur as time goes by, it will improve.

Rain, try the sinu-rinse. It is much easier and less ooky than using the neti pot. If you can buy just one setup and try it, you will be glad you did. This comes from one sinus person to another.

Hope everyone else is doing well. I went out for the first time since my detox. My husband and I have gone to breakfast and lunch, but this is the first time since summer we went OUT out. I put on makeup and did my hair, we went to this neat little Mexican place and had dinner with a very old, very dear friend of mine. We just reunited recently, after being out of touch for so long, and I am glad, because I missed her friendship. My husband and I and her had a nice meal, plus a pitcher of delicious Sangria. I had two glasses, which was enough for me. I was very anxious through the night, though no on noticed, I did. So sleep was not so good. By about 1 am I was able to calm myself and remind myself not to freak out over things I cannot do anything about. My insecurities have always held me back and it is something I SOOO want to improve.

Today, I am pretty wiped out, but glad I went out. Yesterday during the day, my husband & I went to the pet memorial park and picked up Colette's ashes. They engraved the box for free so we had her name and her nickname put on it. They also gave me her paw print pressed in clay. My husband and I walked around the cementery, went to get some Boba Tea afterwards. It is such a contrast to a year ago, when I could not even leave the house!

Also going to need to stay talking to u guys because after about 5 days of this Vicodin withdrawal ill be staring down a loaded 360 count tramadol refill, and after 30 days tram fre that is the last thing I want. Sorry talking about just me ill comment on others when I get to a PC this phone typing ***** sorry

Hey....ThisTime....whatever you do, don't touch the tramadol! Cancel the refil, what ever. If you are suffering from legitimate chronic pain and have to have something, I say take the standard opiate medication. If not, I did not find detox from Hydrocodone near as bad as tramapuke.

I am your garden variety addict. I truly sympathize with those of you who hate taking narcotics but suffer chronic pain. But I know one thing. Tramadol is poison, far worse than the older meds.

I got my Caddy fixed today $130 more dollars besides the $250 I spent Saturday for something that did not have to be done. Anyway, that old car is my baby and it really messed with my recovery when I got in it Sunday and it would not start. I bought that car as a present for giving up the Tramadol.

I'm doing so much better than I expected. Not excited like I was around day four and five, but I am functional and pretty happy. I feel certain that the things like the B12 and multi vitamins, 5HTP, Valerian, etc are helping.

I'm still dealing with some issues at night, but no noticable WD's during the day.

I'm with Randy - cancel that script ASAP!!! You do not want the temptation and you may be a little more vulnerable right now having just stopped the vicodin. Please give yourself a fighting chance and get rid of that refill right now! It will be the best decision you can make. Please!!

And also - welcome back sheliz! So great to see you hear again and glad to hear the trip was good. And I agree with everyone else - you deserve four star (or at least 3!) hotels! :) p.s. oh yeah, I hit my 7 month mark today :)

so glad all the old friends are back, and the new friends are kicking butt, too!

things are so bad at work that i've had to hire a labor attorney. this is only related to Trams in that i can see why i needed them in the mornings. now, it's just physical, emotional pain and fear...every day. the kiddos are great, though, and learning. yay!

mom's surgery scheduled for a week from tomorrow. hoping for a cancer-free biopsy.

Sleep is still good.It is interupted, but I can go back to sleep after about 15- 20 minutes. the only bothersome sleep problem I'm having is the sweating.. I wake up with my whole front feeling like I've been sprayed with a water hose... Still no energy, my mind feels energized, but I just can't get myself to do anything..Matter of fact my 7 year old said tonight " mom it smells like a dog had puppies in here" Uhhh Yuck, Maybe by spring I will be able to do some real good spring cleanning!
. Acid reflux is horrible and I can't eat very much without feeling like I way, over ate. I have never had this problem. I end up miserable everytime I eat. Of course I didn't eat alot when I was on the trams. Does anyone know if any of the vitamins might be making my stomach feel this way? I have been very agitated tonight. Really angry feeling and have snapped at the kids and even the hubby who has gone above and beyond to help me get off and stay off these things!!! Everyone has steered clear from me.. I'm not feeling too down. I like to think the 5HTP is helping, because last time I was a basket case..

Thistime4real, I thought my Dr. gave me alot at 240, but wow yours doesn't hold back at all. I agree with the others. Call and cancel them. I was so wishing that a person close to me that quit when I did, would do the same, but they haven't.. You've made it so far. and good job on dumping the vics! Good Luck!!

SheLiz, Congrats on the 92 days and agree with the other, You deserve 4 star treatment..... What an excieting trip though!!

Bad night last night. Could not lay still in the bed, so got up at midnight for a couple of hours. When I went back to bed I got an old and heavy comforter and wrapped up like a shroud and forced myself to be still.

I got 3-4 hours with some interruptions and a lot of sweating, but hey...that is enough to face the day. They are now pretty good regularly. If last night repeats, I am going to get a couple of valium again. I don't think a couple every few weeks will impeeded progress too much. It sure helped my attitude the next day!

I'm so thankful. I don't care how crappy last night was. I don't have to worry about where I am going to get some pills or how I am going to pay for them, or what is going to happen to me if I can't get them. That is truly a blessing. One more day down the road. The farther away I get from those buggers the better I feel!

JMA-the sweating is awful, I know. Be sure to drink lots of liquid and something w/electrolytes to replenish your body. Also mineral baths to replace magnesium.

Good sleep last night. Being tired and weak is maybe the worst of it. I am still having trouble with anxiety, but I can tell it is improving.

I finally got out yesterday and went to the market with my husband. It was pretty crowded but it did not freak me out in the least. In fact, in the midst of the crowd, I ran into a friend and chatted with her a bit. A year ago I would not even go to the market in the dead of night!

Keep fighting! You are all such great people, do not submit to such a terrible, destructive drug!!

Hey Nora, did you mean NeilMed Sinus Rinse?? I hope to go down to Walgreens later and find what your talking about.
Sinuses still a total mess and lungs too, but had no fever yesterday and had a good shift. then promptly spent all the earnings on cat food at walmart..Walmart appears to need all my money as they only reported 27% profit gains this last quarter..(cough cough) Can you believe though that they are the only place around here that carries Newmans Own organic catfood?? Only a 1.38 per 5.5oz can.. heck I eat cheaper than that. But my 20yr old only eats 2 kinds in the whole world, newmans turkey, and FF tilapia appetizers at 1.27 each... I'll have to win the powerball lottery to keep this up! 24 newman and 12 FF 50 bucks! Looks like I need tissues more than anything! Argh these sinuses have got me into a cranky state.
Nora sounds like you live in a great area of CA. I've been to all parts of CA and loved the state, except for the crazy government there and the laws and taxes etc etc.I have a niece that lives in Berkely (sp), She's a recovering heroin addict. Funny when she found I was quitting tramadol she emailed saying I should take suboxone for the wd's !! I was like, no thanks. I didnt even know what it was at the time.. After reading here I knew I didnt want any part of it.
Anyhow hope everyone is staying strong and getting better.

Rain-¡Exactamente! That stuff works. Trust me!
(Time for some disclosure) Rain, San Diego can be a great place to live. People are always surprised when I tell them where I am from, I don't look the part of the so cal gal. The weather is great, we live in a pretty liberal urban part of town, close to lots of great shops, coffee houses & places to eat. I love my neighborhood and neighbors, there is a real sense of community which I like. It has been unusually cold here, which would be warm most other places, but it allows fo me to wear warm clothes and hats.

Berkley is fantastic. Lots of great Indian food and shops. I loved living in Northern CA. I guess being what people call an 'Artsy type' I really felt at home living in SF. My husband and I drove from San Diego to Corvallis OR, and had a fantastic time. It was pretty amazing to see how huge and varied the state of CA really is. And yes, the government can be kinda screwy, but it could be much worse.

Well its day 30 off the trams and day 2 off the Vicodin the wd aren't as bad as tramadol I am so happy to be off that. I don't feel great. I have an endurance and agility test sat prolly going to be bad :( I live in long beach so I'm a socal Guy too nice weather here! Class tonight and exam so I'm debating taking a Vicodin but idk. I wish I could go back to being a kid before I knew all this existed u know

talking to the attorney (class action) he says if we can get noterized statements from the dr. u all mentioned we will go for it! that is the only way i can see to kill this drug. why noone overseas did the same?
anyone have friends the the newpaper business? i have one (small paper) but she is very excited to write an article

Ok thanks Nora. I'll find it..
My experience in Cali has been that Ive stayed in Mission Bay for a weekend (company) and Ive camped at the Cardiff by the sea (80's) and also camped in the redwoods and stayed near San Clemente for a night lol...Drove through wine country then on to Vegas via San Bernandino and death Valley I think...Also saw the golden gate bridge..
All in all I thought Cali was huge and beautiful and the people were great. I loved how san diego had vegetarian smorgasborgs etc..So advanced for the time...Here in Columbia they still hunt brontosaurus, and I havent known a vegetarian other than myself in the 20 years Ive been here. :( But the people are very friendly (and dumb) for the most part.
O.k. gotta get energy up to go nasal/sinus relief hunting

Hang in there JOMASMOMAGAIN you are doing great, and sure vitamins can get to your stomach sometimes...If you can, try acidopholus before eating...I swear by 'jarrow-dophilus eps' and get mine on amazon...cured my 'i.b.s.' too....
almost 2 weeks for you!! Stay strong!
Glad your feeling well Randy keep at it!
And Thistimefor real I hope you find the strength to stay strong and not take vicodins!

that he believes this drug was not presented as it should have been giving everyone a false belief that is was non addicting and not releasing the true facts on this

everyone orders this on line as it is not a 'controlled' drug can u imagine how hard they will fight this? they are making millions per day i see that it would take years to convince the fda this was scam (don't have a better word)

that is why i think getting newspapers involved contact reporters, boycott the co. (i know that it doesn't work) but i have been involved with a situation that needed to be taken of and the newspapers is what help me and my staff to get to the truth and not a pretty scene when they were taken down.

let me know
about how many do we have on this line trying to detox? we maybe need more people to prove what we r saying and i know how many were thrown for a loop when they tried to stop and so many are in conditions that they do not want to expose themselves (which i understand ) and r using this forum to help them get off these

i think dr. would be the best place to start i have medical people in my family and i have already told them what is going on and believe me that was reallllllly hard (no way did i let them know how many i take)

one is a dr. at northwestern and i am waiting for his response

lets see what we can do

would anyone want to come forward with name etc? i don't think so i am also checking into other tramadol detox forum
and it really increasing by the day

stay safe u guys and pray i dropped down to 20 3 days ago and now am getting w/d stuff

Thanks rainallday! I may have to try that for sure as we have i.b.s. probs in this house.... today instead of taking all the vitamins at the same time I split them up and instead of taking the 5htp in the morning, I took it this evening and I had more energy today. Don't know if it had anything to do with switching it to the evening, but I'm going to keep it this way and see if it helps. My tummy has felt better too.. I got up and cleanned two rooms. Even dusted and vaccumed..Tomorrow I hope to tackle the kitchen floors.. I don't know what it is about stormy weather, but it just zaps all my energy and tomorrow is going to be a stormy day. I'm not going to push myself..

Also, has anyone ever gotten sore's on the roof of their mouths? When I get strep I always get sores in my mouth and I have had these places on the roof of my mouth for over a week and am quessing it's eiter my bodies reaction to the stress, one of the vitamins or possibly the acid reflux..I wish there was a symptom list to go by! LOL

Today is the longest I have ever gone getting off this stuff, It seems like such a silly milestone, but It really is an awesome feeling. The last time all I thought about was was taking a pill so I could have energy and be happier.. This time I could care less if I ever see another pill and thats a major step for me.. I know I have a long road, but that road looks a lot more doable than the times before...

I also took a step and comitted to babysitting a little boy in about 4 weeks to 5 weeks. Something I would have never done before since I never new if I was going to run out and be withdrawling while having to work. Now if I can only get my energy back in 5 weeks..LOL

Nora, I have been drinking gatorade and then stopped about 3 days ago, I will put that and Epson salt on my list, I know that Epson soak helped my body when I was soaking.....

Hey Jomasmomagain, good move on the 5htp as its a 'mellowing' supplement...btw at about day14 I had sores also and it scared me alot until I just said screw it its withdrwawals related, and I also realized I was dehydrated..Gatorade is great but water is also great and I think water balances high acidity or whatever i had...Of course I didnt know that at the time I just plowed forward , and symptoms came and went...Glad your feeling motivated stay positive, and dont be discouraged if any symptoms occur, stay the course!! It's great for me to read that you and anyone here turn that 'corner' in the 2nd week where you start to realize 'hey I'm really beating this thing' No more opiate withdrawal, just the ups and downs of the seratonin imbalance, which I'm learning can take many weeks or even months to get right..
This BAD sinus cold I have had the since last friday made me feel as bad as the 1st week...And I wondered if I'd ever feel better again, but I'm turning yet another corner and feel better today and ate my 1st real meal in 6 days....
My new 'thing' is shopping for guided self-hypnosis help mp3's on amazon, for quitting smoking, and (a little late) healing, motivation, focus etc etc....I've got alot of 're-programming' to do, and alot of change yet to make....Luckily being tramadol free, I can see what I need to do, I'm just not strong enough yet to do it...1 day at a time.....
Congrats yet again to all the warriors here, and thanks Jomasmomagain, your posts are really uplifting today!

Hi Randy, Rainallday, NoraTorious - great to see you all still here and further along the track to better healthy than when I left. Especially Randy - great to see you finally get through all the Christmas stuff and finally take the plunge.

Im Done - Congrats on 7 months, that's a nice big chunk of time away from the trams.

Sososo - I'm happy to put my name to anything that will mean an end to this drug.

Jomasmomagain - It's hard to tell what is part of the w/d and what is caused my something else. I had all the skin peel off the palms of both hands for about 2-3 weeks weeks about a month ago. It's probably not a common tram w/d but I'm sure it had something to do with it. It does so many strange things to our minds and bodies, who knows.

Still not sure what w/ds I have, if any, as I'm still worn out from Vietnam. I'm sleeping well (but still taking about 1/4 of a 25mg seroquel at night - about 6-7mg which is hardly anything but I don't sleep too well without it and I really feel the need for some regular sleep right now). My sleep in general definitely MILES better than it was in the first month after trams though. Never want to go through that again :-)

I'm down to about 37mg of fluvoxamine (anti-anxiety) each morning. I've slowly come down from 100mg per day and even though it doesn't have w/d like trams I still like to take it slowly. And, after 17 years of amitriptyline I've now been off that for about 6 months or more. So, I am slowly but surely getting rid of everything and looking forward to being on nothing at all.

The hard thing tough is that I still have a lot of my original physical pain and apart from all the physio therapy work, swimming, walking, massages, yoga etc I'm just not sure how I'm going to deal with it. It's very much there and I don't want to take anything for it anymore but I'm just not sure exactly how I am going to deal with it. I am hoping that the travelling has made it worse than normal and that it will settle down in time. No matter what Tramadol will NEVER be an option.

My partner decided yesterday he is going to open a store in Florence that offers spiritual readings (tarot, etc) and herbs...anything dealing with white magick, and that threw me for a loop. Joe is a Christian psychic and he has a potentially huge ministry to people who have been disallusioned by the Church, but we are in A L A B A M A... the BIBLE BELT, land of Dixie and all that crap...Plus my career is working in the mainline Church. The Episcopalians would probably just ignore it, but the Presbyterians...I don't know. There are all the hardline fanatics who will write about this new EVIL in the paper, etc. Possibly. It may not even happen. But worrying about how we were going to pay for a place, etc threw me for a loop and made me want to USE. Something besides tramadol, lol.

I hate to dash anyone's hopes. Joe has a mental disorder which prevents him from working a normal job. He is on good meds and it is hardly noticable until he has to keep a schedule or something like that. Even though this is a subject he is passionate about, it will require discipline. He is on disability and can only make a small amount of extra money from working...another issue is how many people would take advantage of the service he offers, maybe not many, and that would depress him. So I am trying to help him find a middle ground to work with and see. The people I have met in the Wiccan community and other new agers don't have any money to spend so ????

We had this heated discussion right before I had to go run choir rehearsals, and it zapped my tedious energy reserves to the max and how I got through it I don't know. ALL I could think of was "I NEED A PILL(S)" and when I got home I was still feeling that way. I ate some frozen stuff from the freezer and some Raman noodles and that did the trick. I wonder how many times I have popped a pill when I was hungry?? Lots, I guess.

I did not take anything before bed last night. No valerian no valium (don't have it - a good thing) and while it wasn't the most restful sleep, I think I got near 8 hours. I was in bed by 11 and besides a couple of bathroom trips I woke up at 7. No rondevous with the computer in the middle of the night or anything.

So Joe just woke up and he has his head on straight this morning...not so much reaching for the moon. Thanks for letting me vent! We are going to have a good day, other than the spring like storms which will keep us cooped up!

Randy, well done for getting through the day without resorting to any pills. If Joe does want to go through with his idea he might be better off trying it in Florence, Italy LOL. Congrats on the 2 week mark!!

I'm going away for a mini family reunion this weekend so I'd better go and pack. Got a physio appointment before I head off so hoping she will help my old body get ready to cope with the weekend.

I cannot believe that 50 days ago, I walked into urgent care with my husband. Thus started my detox. I just felt my body saying, " no more". From there it was 4 of the roughest days of my life.

Randy, I would think there might be some little touristy place that might be a good fit for Joe. But I know it is hard to loosen the bible belt, even just a teeny bit. I wish it would rain so my head would stop feeling like it was going to explode. My sinuses are so in tune with the barometric pressure here.

My dear husband has a second interview next week. Please think good thoughts for him, as I shall think them for all of you!

I have had a good day overall. I didn't eat breakfast or lunch, and by the time I left the office at 2:30 I had the "I need some pills" thing going again. I felt like I was wilting fast, and before, of course, a few pills would have picked me up. So as soon as I got home, I ate lunch, and now I feel better. I guess I am going to need to start some kind of breakfast and lunch at a regularish time. I hate feeling like a wilted flower!

Anyway, things are going well at this point. I get frustrated and wish I could go back to the days before I used subtances to deal with my day or night. It is going to take a LONG time to get over that and get used to existance without a "better living through chemistry" attitude.

How are those of you fairly early in your post-tram days doing? I have heard everyone talk about the lack of energy, and of course I am experiencing it, but not as bad as many who talk about not being able to get out of bed in the morning. Am I just lucky?

Randy, I was able to get up around at the place you are at, but the days were scattered. I might feel great in the morning, but crappy by the afternoon. I think my low energy level has a lot to do with the fact that I was not doing even a little bit of exercise prior to getting off Tramadol. I also really wanted to take something, just not Tramadol, but nothing seemed to work. Now, I can feel the herbal supplements working.

I remember days 15-25 being especially tough. I remember someone saying 'my mind is strong, but my body is weak'. That is exactly how it was for me.

Day 31 no tramadol day 3 no vikes feel ok like I ate grenades for a month and my nose wont stop running. I haven't taken any pills but knowing the Vicodin are there is haunting me for sure tho the wife needs em for her lupus ....I have my police agility and endurance test sat morning and I'm so out of shape from these pills o well time to man up... I don't want to take any more but like Nora quoted my body is strong but my mind is weak or the other way idk. Something is weak lol hope u all keep fighting urges I will. After falling from airplanes 1000 feet and surviving 2xx and being shot in Afghanistan this is still the hardest battle keep fighting all

Day 31 no tramadol day 3 no vikes feel ok like I ate grenades for a month and my nose wont stop running. I haven't taken any pills but knowing the Vicodin are there is haunting me for sure tho the wife needs em for her lupus ....I have my police agility and endurance test sat morning and I'm so out of shape from these pills o well time to man up... I don't want to take any more but like Nora quoted my body is strong but my mind is weak or the other way idk. Something is weak lol hope u all keep fighting urges I will. After falling from airplanes 1000 feet and surviving 2xx and being shot in Afghanistan this is still the hardest battle keep fighting all

Okay...I have it in my head that if I have several days of insomnia I can go get a couple of valium and at least get one good night. Other than early on that has not been the case. I have said, I was not sleeping all night on trams. I would wake up and peruse my favorite websites. Since putting the pills down, I just haven't felt the need to pick up the computer in the middle of the night other than to listen (rather than watch) a movie on Netflix. Last night I slept practically the whole night.

So far, when I have had what I thought was a craving for trams, it was legitimate hunger. I mean, if I don't eat breakfast or lunch and find myself wanting pills, but eat, and find myself satisfied, then it wasn't pills my body wanted but food. I may gain some weight. So what.

I work and socialize among a group of people whom social drinking is a big part of any gathering. Wine with hors d'ouvres or maybe a martini, and while I don't like getting drunk, I do enjoy, legitimately, I think, a glass or two of wine or a couple of drinks. At the same time, I consider myself an addict, and alcohol is a drug. Anyway, I don't have to worry about it now, but it is there in my mind. You know what they say about Episcopalians....where ever two or three are gathered there's always a 5th!

JUST SMOKED MY LAST CIGARETTE FOR THE REST OF MY LIFE!!! for anyone you know that can't quit smoking, tell them about the Easyway method that can be learned in Allen Carr's book. i know that although the next 3 days will be challenging, that i will never pick up another cigarette or puff on someone else'e EVER AGAIN...JUST LIKE TRAMADOL!

i am FREEEEEE!

i will probably have to leave my job, and my mom is having surgery on monday with a possible terminal cancer dx to follow...but this will only allow me to be in a better state to help her and to be productive in making important life-decisions. THIS IS IN NO SMALL PART TO THE STRENGTH I HAVE GAINED FROM YOU ALL AND THIS SITE!! thank you for saving my life, and giving me the confidence to know that all i need is ALREADY INSIDE OF ME!

i love the example in the book of the Wizard of Oz. he turned out to be a sham, and the heart, brain, and courage were already inside of the lion, scarecrow, and tinman. ALL YOU NEED IS ALREADY INSIDE OF YOU!

go go go, sososo!!! you will probably get to the point where withdrawal has started enough that you just decide to go cold turkey. i went cold turkey after 3 days of taking wayyy more than 15, and i think that others have done the same.

do not fear the beast!

love, love, love...

to Emily, especially. i knew that smoking would never cease until the Tramabeast had already been slayed.

not enjoying not sleeping...we had spring storms here tonight...tornado sirens going off, lots of rain, thunder and of course an hour long power outage and I can't even think about sleep without my fan running. Everything back to normal and I have been FBing and monitoring a couple of favorite websites for an hour. Time to try again. Since last night was so wonderful, I guess I am due one of these...

Cheering for ya DamTram, You can do it!! I am going out to look for the book you mentioned. My husband wants to quit smoking too, but since detoxing off Tram I just didn't have the strength for both at once. I am feeling ok, have my moments when my body is just on fire and a little bit of Paranoia ( I wish it would go AWAY!!) Very few bouts but still... URGH.. I have been taking Valerian and 5Htp but still noticing I am waking up at the weirdest times. Thursday 2am, went to bed at 10ish. Any suggestions? I would love to sleep longer feeling tired all the time.
I wish you all a great day... Kelly

Thanks, KD!! Would you believe me if I told you that I haven't even wanted a cigarette in the last 7 hours? Probably not, especially since I generally smoked 1/2 a pack per day and I was up most of last night bc I was reading a good book. But it's true!! I believe in this book so much, I sent RainAllDay a copy. I hope it gets to him, soon! If your husband reads the book, you'll both find that there IS not stress from quitting. Just joy, and a couple of days of nicotine leaving your system. Which is counteracted by the joy, anyway. Quitting = difficult = the biggest myth created and sustained by Big Tobacco. Good luck to you and your husband!

GABA, another natural supplement, saved my sleeping problems. I get it at Whole Foods and take one, 750mg tablet per night. And, like everyone says, if I woke up at 2am...I would not try to force myself back to sleep. I would do something else until I was sure I could fall asleep, again.

this tracker is annoying. i am 39 days off of Tramadol, 19 days off of Effexor, and 1 day off of cigarettes. i won't be using any trackers on this journal unrelated to Tramadol. sorry for any confusion, ya'll.

I have an herb question. I am taking 5HTP, Valerian, B12, plus a multi. I've only been taking the Valerian at night and I do think it helps with the anxiety (which is MUCH better maybe because of that, since I have been taking it since day 1 I don't know) If GABA will help with sleep, I guess I should try that ,too.

I am not up all night really that got better about day 4, but going to bed at a normal time isn't working. I need to set bedtime at 2 am or something like that and I would probably be better. I like getting in bed at 10 but the anxiety (light, but keeps me from relaxing) kicks in and if I don't get up and do something it will not go away.

A shower helps, and actually sex (solo or with partner) helps too if you feel up to it. But I have never had a huge sex drive so that is usually way too much trouble.

But everyone....I am actually okay. If I start eating lunch, I won't have anything that resembles a WD symptom during the day, and the only hanger on for me is odd sleep and not being able to relax in the bed even if awake, and so far it has never lasted all night since those first few days.

The biggest thing I am dealing with is accepting my feelings what ever they may be and not taking a pill to change them if I wish they were different. I am sure that will be something I will grow into and not think about as time goes by.

I don't know what I would have done without this forum. I would have just continued to hate myself and use. Knowing how others fight has been my power. I hope my quitting experience will help someone else quit, too.

Dam...I think stopping smoking, however anyone does it, is a major accomplishment right up there with the trams. You go! Congrats!!!!

City approvd Joe's business plan for a new age gift and consignment store with a web-based business on site and spiritual advice as "entertainment." He's been talking to someone who owns a storefront in a part of town that has been designated for arts/entertainment, and I happen to know the family well. They are Episcopalian and attend the church I worked at before California, and I played for their son's funeral when he died from AIDS.The building has been empty forever and they seem to be willing to let us try this at a FAR below market rent.

I am POOR. How we come up with $300 rent and utilities is the question. However, Joe works for a couple of psychic hotlines and his income will pretty much cover that. Who knows if this will work but he is having fun. Pray for us!

Oh....Lord....y'all tell me if you think this stuff is inappropriate since it is not about Tramadol....We were downtown picking up our occupancy liscense, and we met someone with over 100 books on mystic/eastern/etc religion and subjects. He heard us talking to the city officials about what we wanted to do and wants to consign them plus other things in that realm (antique buddah heads, etc) that would work. I worked with an estate appraiser in CA so I guess I am going to go inventory all this stuff this guy wants to move (he inherited the house and contents and is remodeling). I can do this, but my specialty is antiques not new age. I did talk to a mutual friend of Joe's and mine who had a successful new age shop downtown prior to 9/11 when regulations and products became too expensive to keep the shop open.

I guess I am just sitting here with my jaw dropping because I was thinking about how negatively the city planners would view this - not to mention the conservative Christians who will consider some of it demonic - and gifts are literally falling from the sky. What did we do to deserve this good karma? The part of town where the shop will be located is called East Florence. The buildings, many of them, are historic. The city is encouraging bars/restaurants and such - anything entertainment oriented - and I guess Joe lucked out since they saw the spiritual reader thing as entertainment. The storefront is right on the street with a big window. Mystic Conceptions seems to becoming a reality.

It is kind of scary. Living a drug-free life with a drug-free partner seems to be something that the powers-that-be-upstairs must approve of! I am really excited for Joe.

Today has been the first time I have wanted to take a pill. For a split second I thought "just one, once in a while wouldn't hurt" but I know it would, Thats what has led me back into abusing the trams everytime before..I am hoping to have the strenght to keep believing what I tell myself! I'm not having sleep problems, or anxity or depression..... It is the lack of ambition or energy to get anything done... Today was horrible as was yesterday.... It has been cloudy for 2 days and that is a major energy zapper for me.. Sunday is going to be 70 degrees and then Monday 35 and rainy.... UGH!! I want a full week of sun...lol... I also try to remind myself that their were ALOT of time that those little white pills did nothing for my energy. I just tend to only remember the times they did good for me, not the bad.. Funny how our brains only remember what we want them too....

I surprised the girls last night and asked them if they wanted to play "Just Dance 2" on the Wii.. Before you knew it, an hour had passed. I was out of breath and sweating. We had so much fun..lol. I am thinking about getting the Zumba for the Wii and exercise......

Still having acid reflux and yesterday brought a new symptom, a burning sensation in my nose and itchy nose and more sneezing than I had been having...

JMA - The is only the 'little monster' of the Tramadol taking its last gasps at life. Its last attempt make itself survive.

Because taking one Tramadol simply creates a 'withdrawal' a few hours later, which causes you to feel WORSE than than you did before you took the first one. So, what would make that new emptiness/pain/exhaustion go away? Another pill.

And so on and so on and so on.

It's just the 'little monster'. You can say to him, "Yes, I very well might to give you a Tramadol....but it's just not going to happen." And then you can do your happy dance, because the monster is almost dead and YOU are FREE!!

I'm so proud of you, JMA! Just keep pounding B12, D3, Tyrosine, and maybe an adrenal fatigue supplement. Generally, adrenal fatigue is the cause of the lack of energy/motivation. Just keep pounding them in the morning.

Hey yall, Stopping in for just a minute, my headache is pounding away...Plus I have to be at my friends tire shop at 8am (They don't even know it yet) to hope they can put belts on the car again because the alternator belt broke again like in January during my friday night shift....Crappy luck....really crappy.....It ***** for one because I normally sleep 8-2pm....
Plus just trying to get over killer sinus cold....So dont see much sleep till sunday morning I imagine...Tough times...
Nora i DID get the neilmed sinus rinse and have done it twice, without much effect....I'm sure I'll get better at it or whatever, seems like I'm doing it right, just no big results.....It's much easier than neti-pot I'll say that.. So i'll keep at it and hope it helps, I need all the help I can get...
Hang in there Jomasmomagain...If i can hang in there anyone can....This sinus cold really kicked my butt for the last week now....along with back and neck pain....But i didnt cave in.. Bufferin should send me a gold card though!! so should sudafed...I can't wait to feel better ......one of these days......

I'm having a hacking cough and sneezing, etc, too, which I thin is tram related because so many of you face it. I don't have cold or flu; I learned erly on that tram suppressed things like coughing.

Things are perking along. My supplements and vitamins are working. I am taking an energy stacker capsule in the morning, but eating about four small meals a day. Even a cup of Raman noodles will take away the pill craving and gives me an energy boost.

JMA - Just a pep note...if you get a pill craving...just relax into that just like they say about the insomnia...try to do something to get your mind off it or take a vitamin...and in a few minutes it will go away.

I did not realize just how much I was not eating when on those pills, and so far, most of the time, when I feel like I have to have some pills to keep going, a cup of Raman noodles or something like that will do the trick. It is more trouble than popping the pills, but it works for me.

I DO have times when I want to use a substance (something to make me cute and perky, or relax to sleep) which I keep talking about because it is a habit I have built up over the years. Gotta go to a party...take (or drink) something first. THAT of course, has nothing to do with food, and honestly it can be a little bit of a downer, but I do think with time that won't be the first thing I think about. I hope not anyway.

I am just saying that I KNOW I substituted trams for meals regularly. I am 6'4" and got down to 205 at one point because of it. I am up to 240 now I guess, even with giving up sugar and snacks. I guess when I did that my body quit burning it so fast. Big deal. Right now....staying clean is priority.

I keep saying this because if I am finding myself having pill cravings and then a small meal ends that...others have to experience the same thing.

The need for a cigarette or pill or drink is the same, empty feeling. Before, when we would feel empty, we thought it was because we needed something to make us feel better. Most often, we were hungry.

Oral fixations are fake. They don't make you feel better, or people chewing gum should be the most relaxed of everyone. Let me know if you ever find a relaxed person who is chewing gum. When people give up a substance and eat a ton when they feel empty, this is where the weight gain comes in...because, before, drinking and smoking and pilling would eventually cut off your appetite. Without that, people binge unknowingly. Eating little bits when you feel empty (the genuine feeling of hunger), you're doing the right thing for your body.

Your metabolism will get back in check. You're going to start seeing the weight fall off.

Tramadol & Ultram are additive??? I am on Suboxone, i felland hurt my back and the only meds they could give me were Tramadol & Ultram because they said the wont make me sic(because suboxone is an opied blocker), They gave me a shot of tram and it didnt seem to work, i also bought it onine at the hight of my perk addiction :/ BTW DamTram Congrats on 40 DAYS!!!! my tracker says 0 days cuz im on subs :( but i havent taken perks or other hard drugs for almostt 2 yearrs, but i just went from one drug u buy off the street to another that the dr gives u...****** up but iam now addited to subs...crazy...

Here I Am....Tram/Ultram is a synthetic opoid medication. It uses the same receptors as older medications like Lortab and Vicodin. It also has a built-in anti depressant component that complicates things for those of us who become addicted to Tramadol.

I believe that the drug companies that originally marketed Ultram as safe with a low risk of dependance probably knew better sooner, but they saw $$ bills.

I believe in people getting relief for chronic pain whether it be by narcotics or what have you. It is up to the individual to decide what to do if they feel the medication is beginning to control their life - as many legitimate users here did.

Personally, I feel like Tramadol is a very dangerous and serious medication that should not be used recreationally. I know people are going to use prescription meds for fun - if so, stick with Vicodin or Lortab, they are safer.

Anyway, I had been on Tramadol for two years and took more and more to feel "okay" and never got a big kick out of it. Stopping it has been one of the most unpleasant experiences of my life and I would not wish the way I feel - great one day and horrible the next, the insomnia, and frankly wierd WD affects of this medication on anyone. I have a colleague who took it for a month while fighting Shingles and he had serious WD after just that mild use.

Nope....Tramadol is poison and I would not consider it preferable to anything else out there available for chronic pain maintenance.

thank you, hereiam!! it's been a wild ride, including the devastation of my career. i hope they eventually take you off of the suboxone!

like randy said, Tramadol is a synthetic, partial-opioid agonist. It only partially fills, randomly, the receptors that are COMPLETELY filled by natural opiates (vicodin, percs, etc). instead of being supplemented by acetaminophen or ibuprofen (like most opiates), it is supplements with:

an anti-depressant identical to Effexor is structure and to:

MDMA/ECSTASY IN MECHANISM!! an anti-depressant that tells your neurons to flood your synapses with seratonin and norepinepinephrine, so that if you're taking the drug every...your body can no longer release these neurotransmitters on their own.

oops. doctors still don't know. i just found out on Thursday that a colleague of mine (ex colleague, I resigned from teaching yesterday, permanently) is prescribed Tramadol for severe menstrual cramps. she almost fell out of her chair when I was honest about what has happened to me, medically. her daughter PROMISED her it was not addictive. she couldn't understand why she enjoyed taking it!

screw you, Big Pharm.

almost 2 days clear from cigarettes. =) going to get a 90 minute massage all of my joint pain. i'm getting angrier as i realize that I probably have rheumatoid arthritis, and was misdiagnosed with Fibromyalgia last August (what started this whole Tramadol fiasco). fml.

For me, the Trams are way worse that the vics and percs... I have been on vics for a few months before and when the time came to stop. no problem.. I took the trams for a very short time in the begining and everytime I missed a couple of days I was sick, sick, sick! These are the first pills I just couldn't put down. The first ones that I spent everyday for almost 3 years thinking about from the time I got up until the time I went to bed.. The power they have over you is incredible. I lied to my husband for a year (he thought I had stopped using them) I lied to him about how many I was taking a day. When I would run out I would get them from over seas, not even careing if they were legit or if I was going to take them and kill over from who knows what that might be in them... If thats not a sign of them being addictive I don't know what is. I know that I feel good about not having all these thing to worry about anymore, but I still think of them ever so often and I hate that..

Randy, While taking these they curved my appitite in a big way. I also had myself conviced that they didn't work as well when I ate. In all I lost 50 to 60 pounds.which puts me about 20 pounds abouve my ideal weight, since I have been off them I find myself eating more and I know I'm gaining(my pants are getting a little tight) I am giving myself anout 2 to 3 weeks to get myself better and then I am going to work on keeping my weight from getting out of control again..

Yesterday late afternoon I took a claritin-D for all the sneezing and snotting and all of a sudden I was wide awake with lots of energy and couldn't fall asleep until 1am. drawback. I couldn't sleep in , so I only got about 5 1/2 hours of sleep. Made for a long day today.. Can't wait to hit the pillow tonight...

Thanks rainallday, I'm haning, although it feels like it a bare thread, I'm doing it.

DamTram, thank you for your kind words.. Everything you share with me is so helpful and Congrats on putting down the cigs! I stopped 11 years ago this March. I can tell you my sense of smell is so strong it drives me nuts! I could never smell anything when Iwas smoking.. Thats why I feel this time getting off the trams will be it..... I got to that point with smoking.. I was just DONE and after many failed atempts, that time I knew. You will feel great!......

Nice reading everyone's posts...I have had a wonderful day. I was beginning to get antsy as soon as the sun went down, but took some Valerian and I am calmer. Will probably go to the church to practice organ for tomorrow and then come home and hope to sleep. I know that I will at least get several hours so I can live with that.

2 a.m. I got four hours of deep sleep. I don't know if I will get back to bed. In the old days I would surf for an hour and go back to sleep. My side of the conforter is soaking wet around where it met my neck. I know we complain about this, but would it not be our bodies getting rid of toxins? If so, then even though unpleasant...it is a good thing, right?

I'm going to google some pics of very small retail spaces and see if I get any ideas for Mystic Conceptions. I told my parents that I was basically starting a venture that at best in the short term would simply pay for itself with no profit, and they were supportive and understanding. That was a good thing. Now if they would just hand me a thousand bucks to do the work in the space I want to do to get it ready!

I hope your day is blessed. Yet another mile down the road from my last Tramadol and I am so happy about that! I'm not afraid of finding the odd pill. It would go down the sink or toilet very easy now!

Good morning...a couple of comments....I did get back to sleep. It is 6:50 and time to get ready for work. Something came up yesterday that I thought worth sharing.

There is a local place here (if you search/google "The Wall" you can read about it) with a native American prayer circle. The builder told me people had been cured of addiction. I would not go in there until I had quit using, but I did at about day three or four, and asked God to help me fight.

We took someone else there yesterday - it is not commonly known - even though is has been deemed one of the most important contemporary environmental arts in the USA, the largest monument to any woman in the USA, the largest monument to a Native American woman in the USA (of over 100,000 people, men women children removed in the trail of tears, this is the only one PROOVED to have returned) and one of the 12 most spiritual places in Alabama - there is power there.....

Anyway, Joe told me that it was after I went in the circle and prayed that I started sleeping all night. I do pretty much sleep until morning when I do get to sleep. It may be 2 a.m., but I sleep until 6 or 7. I can't remember sleeping more than two hours at a time and then getting up to read or something for years. Interesting.

Last posting at 2 a.m., I was up about 15 minutes, wrote that, and went back to bed. Amazing.

Randy, I'm so glad you got lots of sleep last night. I started feeling better when I started getting long periods of sleep... When on the trams, I slept good. It's funny, during the day they pepped me up, but once I went to bed they knocked me out. if I got up to go to the bathroom I would stumble back to bed.... I REALLY miss that deep sleep..lol..

I slept 9 hours last night, would have been great had i not woke up about 15 times... Right back to sleep pretty much, but UGH! Makes for a long night when you look at the clock and see you were just awake 20 minutes before.. I think it's because the hubby works nights and I am use to sleeping by myself, but he's off weekends.. Hopefully, The extra hour of sleep will make up for all the waking...

Going on day 4 of clouds. Supose to storm tonight and tomorrow. and then partly cloudy alll week and in the mid 60's with Tuesday being mostly sunny.. I just want to scream. The sun makes me feel so energized....Hope this is one of those many times the weather man is wrong..lol..

Went flea marketing with the girls yesterday and got some really neat ideas for some crafts. I've got a craft room full of scrapbooking,sewing and crafting things and since being on Trams, I've really had no intrest in doing any of it. I just kept buying stuff. One of my tram free goals is to get more scrapbooking albums done for the girls.. The have asked me many times if I would show them/ scrap with them.. I think it's time!

About 6 months ago, I was at a coffee house with my husband. I had my moleskin with me and way drawing in it. The girl serving us made a big deal over my pictures and how I should mount them and do a show at their shop. I laughed it off, saying it was a one trick pony. I collect 19th and 20th century medical books and use them in my art; I have a lot of pages with text. I am grating these pages with something that allows me to draw on them, and it gives an interesting farme to my work. I get really excited about my art, and think I can really do something. But right now, it just feels stupid and pointless.

I am glad everyone is doing so well, but I am not. I have fallen in a deep hole of depression. I am still Tramadol free, I have no desire to take it, but when I go into a period of self-loathing like this, I just want to die, and I don't care how I go about destroying myself.

My husband and I have just enough money for rent. No food, no bills. I scraped $20.00 so my husband can get a haircut for his second interview on Tuesday. We are selling some antique coins and jewelry because I need new contacts desperately. The ones I have are over a year old and disposable. I can see well enough to get around and possibly drive my neighborhood, but I would not want to risk it.

We have run out of places and people to borrow money from. I am just at a loss as to what to do. I am so angry at my husband for not making an effort for five months to get a job, and now scrambling around trying to sell things to make a quick buck (which is $20, $30 here and there). I just don't think I can do this anymore.

Nora...I've been there...In San Fran right after 9-11, and I understand. I lost my job, Steven lost his, both depressed and no drive to do much about it. If you want to talk and have a cellphone/minutes, I can listen, actually that is part of my job...and can also perhaps give some advice about what we should have done looking back that we did not do. Let me know and I will send my phone number. You are in my thoughts and I am sending all the positive energy I can and a big hug {{{{{{{HUG}}}}}}}}}

Same as Randy. And I can obviously lend money to get you through this time! Just PM me your number. My mom goes in to surgery tomorrow, but will be able to talk shortly thereafter. And I know how stupid it sounds, but relax into the depression just like the pain and insomnia and illness and everything else.

On a good note, I randomly called the SD Police History Museum, to see if they needed volunteers to help them in curation/archives. I chatted with the VP and he was so excited to find someone who has handled historical artifacts and has experience in archives. He was even more thrilled that I have knowledge about clothing preservation, crime history, and San Diego History. He wanted to meet me asap and have me apply, as I cannot work there, even as a volunteer, until they do a full background check on me. But none the less, he wants me to come in and see their stuff, and see what I could do for them. I am excited, but so afraid of failure.

Randy, I can completely relate to the hunger thing you're talking about. I also found when taking the tramapoison that I never ever ate on it. I didn't want the food to remove the "high" I got from the pills. And after I quit WOW the hunger took over. It was like my brain and body were so used to being "fed" by tramadol that once removed, everything went back to normal (slowly of course) but I soon realized it was food that I needed, not the pill. And the overwhelming appetite has subsided some now and I can now focus on losing the extra few pounds I've gained since quitting. But I'll take the weight gain ANY day over the horrible life I was living on the trams.

And I also wanted to mention that I read that if you're feeling a craving, think of the acronym H.A.L.T. as in - 1. am I Hungry? 2. am i Angry? 3. am I Lonely? and 4. am I Tired? This is supposed to help you to identify the true feelings behind that craving and address that emotion/feeling instead of taking a pill. Just something to think about and it has really helped me a lot.

Awe Nora! I am so sorry you are feeling so horrible! I hate that there is nothing I can do for you.. Hopefully things will look up for you all.. Better things are to come.. We live pay-check to pay-check and it is so stressfull and more so with three kids to worry about. It's sometimes so overwhelming. Hang in there Nora and I'll be hoping and praying that your hubby gets that job! So glad you are looking into things that intrest you and it will be wonderful if you can find something that will bring you pleasure!

Today was THE best day so far..(Maybe it was the 9 hours of sleep) I don't think I have had one withdrawal symptom today with exception for the over eating feeling along with acid reflux feeling. I really never did have the exhausted rollercoaster feeling I have been having everyday. I know.. one step forward and 2 steps back. I am so hoping I am coming to that finish line and on my way to feeling better and better everyday... I was around Trams today and I stood strong and when I left I was so proud of myself. Don't get me wrong..lol I wanted too, but I didn't want to, more.. It felt good.

Well I better go get ready for the storms they are calling for.. Goodnight to everyone and hopefully good sleeps!

Bonjour everyone - thought I would pop in and say hello as we have not posted for a while. Glad to see everyone still here and off the trams. My husband is now 49 days free from tramadol and is doing well. Still suffering from bouts of rls, still having trouble going off to sleep but when he does is sleeping right through. Is still getting anxious now and again but all in all pretty good. Hope the rls eventually disappears altogether but if it doesn't he can cope with it.

Nora - I feel you have proved to everyone here (and yourself) that you are one of lifes survivors - we have been there re: money worries believe me - can remember when our children were small and no work anywhere sitting on the floor crying my eyes out surrounded by bills and only £5 left in my purse! BUT something turned up and I'm sure it will for you and your husband as well. I will be thinking of him and hoping he does well at his second interview. I am sure he will. Your art sounds amazing and you have obviously been graced with a talent. Don't hide it away! Why not consider exhibiting - what have you got to lose? So what if it is in a coffee shop, even Picasso had to start somewhere! Sounds as though volunteering for the museum could be a wonderful opportunity for you to get back out there and do something positive while at the same time giving a helping hand - something which in itself will give you a lift - DO IT! You and your husband have a strong relationship - he has been there through the tramadol and withdrawal - I know how hard it is to be the partner in this process so know how much you two must love and support eachother otherwise you wouldn't be together - only strong relationships last the course through this s***! Soooooo.... however hard it is now, hang on to the thought you have something that is invaluable and which money can't buy and things can (and will) only get better!

Damtram - hope your mums operation goes well tomorrow - will be thinking of you and your family. You have done really well and tramadol free will be in such a better position to support her through this. Am prayinmg for a good result for all of you.

Jonasmom - glad you are sleeping better - it will continue to get better as time goes by. The appetite thing is pretty common - my husband had very little appetite during the 3 years he was prescribed the trams - since he stopped taking them has eaten loads more than he did - however it calms down after a few weeks so don't worry - it will balance out. Well done for the progress you are making - your children deserve to have a pill free mum - they are already noticing the difference in you and will continue to do so - you are going to have some fabulous times together as a family. Our son has just gone back to college after spending half term with us - it was wonderful for me to see how well he and his father were getting on together - laughig and joking around like they used to before he was prescribed the medication - their relationship is back on track and I am so happy that it is .

Randy - keep up the good work - you and Joe sound as though you are a talented couple and your plans sound exciting - think it is really important to have something to work towards whilst you continue through the withdrawal. Your sleep will get better and better as time goes by. Many posters on here have said that sleep is the last thing for many to right itself and my husband can write the book on that as it has been the worst thing for him and he still gets frustrated at not being able to just jump into bed and go straight to sleep - however it is SO much better and he is getting good quality sleep . Madtram really reassured him on that one when he thought he was never going to sleep again (and I must admit I was beginning to worry myself!!)! BUT you will find in a few weeks that you are doing so much better so keep going and you will def get there

You are all amazing for getting off the medication - the worst is behind you! You deserve all the good things that are just around the corner. Have a great day (or night!) wherever you are in this world - there are a lot of you out there - I am sure this forum just touches the surface - as the French say Bon courage! Love and respect to you all x

Hello all, I'm here writing because for the 1st time in about 9 days my headache stopped....No idea why....Had a headache all through the academy awards..Could hardly watch. But hey it was enjoyable.
I work freind brought me some catfood from walmart since Ive been without car for 2 days and my 20yr old angel only eats the tilapia ff appetizers. Plus she's got a cold, so very stressfull...Heck a nine day headache is stress enough, but no car etc etc....Hoping the tire shop mechanic shows monday morning and hooks me up. I lost 2 1/2 days of work and pay..I'm already paycheck to paycheck. BUT The time off feels good even If I'm stuck here with no ride..I'm just running out of all the stray cats/raccoons/birds/possums food, so I NEED my car tomorrow!! last time they put both belts on and gave me a tire all for free, I'm hoping it goes the same way tomorrow. The could be on her last leg anyway with all the leaks and other issues, but there are no choices at the moment. So I just ASSUME it'll all be ok....why?? Because somehow I've lived the last 7 years check to check broke and feeding all the strays and somehow survived, I can't even see how..(grace) I'm not religeous but I believe in grace....Pure heart, goodwill, non-harmful, I assume I'll be lucky and keep fighting onward...These last 9 days of sinus pain and migraines and car trouble have really brought me to near the bottom in attitude though....It's hard to think positive when your ever reaching for otc pain relievers and trying to lay down and make the room dark as possible!!!! So we'll see tomorrow if the car's ok and if the head pain returns or not, it could turn into a very good week..It NEEDS to!
btw Jomasmomagain we're supposed to get storms monday evening, its been a long time since we had big storms, could be interesting.

Morning all...fitful sleep and an anxious night survived. I am up a little earlier but I have some errands I need to run before the storms hit and even though I am off today, I've decided to play music for the funeral of a man the priests at my church have been providing pastoral care to for two years....he's contributed to the parish financially but was only able to attend once.

Foster said "he was one of us, he has no one to pay respects to him." I am usually selfish with my music. I won't walk out the door for less than $100, but for some reason this one is different. Don't care about the money, The funeral will take place about the time the severe tornadic storms are supposed to hit so who knows?

I keep saying this....there is no one way to approach what ever God is. We all have the God of our own understanding as they say in the 12 step group. Grace is God...looking up at the stars and being blown away is God, an innocent child running to you and jumping into your arms who doesn't know who you are is God. Wow...I had the experience once and it blew me away...unexpected and undeserved....I felt like God herself had embraced me with a special hug. I can't imagine life without moments of the Divine.

It is so important to be healthy and whole to try to find the eternal which is a part of all of us....I find it mostly in creation, but anyway it really helps, and it helps to tell whoever that part of us that is spirit and eternal thank you for those little gifts of Grace.

Good Morning everyone,
I am still having some issues and thought I would throw them at you all in hope maybe I could unsettle my mind.
Its hard for me to really express what I am going through and at times is soooo FRUSTRATING!
As I said I have been on tramadol non stop for 12 years, With a mixture of Wellbutrin, then Seroquel then Prozac( All prescribed) I would stop taking one and start another. Plus a beta blocker for pinched nerve running down my arm. Really unexplained as to why that happened. Any ways, I knew a year ago that I needed off the tramadol so I would decrease on certain days, and I could go maybe one whole day with out taking it, Then my body would demand it. My issues started about the same time I was trying to ween myself off the tramadol. (Symptoms) I started getting very paranoid of things happening that no-one else understood. Mostly that my husband who works and comes home every nite at the same time every day for 15 yrs, doesnt go or do anything without me. But I have insisted that he is cheating, I have gone into stores where I think people are plotting against me or mean me harm. I have had non stop excessively chatter without making much sense to my husband. I would say things I would have Never said before. I just couldn't stop! I thought he was texting on his phone to someone, Which he doesn't use his phone. He looked at a house down our road and I thought he was having a affair with who ever lived there. Which I think they are elderly. It was pretty bad for I would say 8 months, I thought everyone was talking about me, This is NOT me. I have never ever felt this way in my life and it had scared me. Now since detoxing, THAT Was scary!! Shakes, sweats, body odor even after many showering, Muscle twitching, shakes, on and on,a few times felt I had a small seizure. Massive headaches, Loose bathroom issues. (All the time.) I am having better days, I can go a few days without the odd thinking, or a thought will come and I realize what it is and stop the thinking. I do feel more clearer thinking, but I am still having tiny bouts of paranoid thoughts. On the clear days I am shocked at how I behaved, I am scared at times as those thoughts felt so real it is hard to understand those times. I am now wondering if I had/have S-Syndrome. My doctor was of NO Help, I did this all on my own with your support, But I am scared that my mind will never go back to where it was.Please...Has anyone had these issues? I feel so lost and I am now worried my husband has had enough. I have tried to explain to him that something has gone wrong and that I am still inside but can he really be blamed his wife has lost it. Its so hard on me that I have caused such heartache to a man I know has loved me. Any thoughts are sooo appreciative..

oh forgot when detoxing that I had heart issues, constantly palpitating or felt like it was slamming into my chest. They hooked me to a home heart monitor. I haven't heard back yet, but the symptoms of that has almost subsided. Maybe once or twice a day I feel it very lightly. So that is good news.

KD....I am not claiming any form of expertise here. I sympathize greatly with you. If you are getting better post-tram then that is of course a great leap in the direction you want to go.

I wonder if the length of time you were on the tramadol is an issue, and also, how it may have interacted with your other meds over the long haul. It seems to me that there hasn't been much concern about tramadol at all...how addictive and demanding it is...they are just now dealing with that. As bad as that part is, it wouldn't be far fetched to consider that it might play havoc with one's mental health and cause other meds to act in ways doctors don't expect.

My partner Joe has borderline personality disorder with some bipolar and other tendancies. This has all been under control since before I met him, but he told me he used to hear voices telling him to do things, etc, and had a lot of paranoia. He put himself into a psych ward as a teenager against his parents wishes. Listen to the part of your body and soul that is sanity and go with that. Don't let the other part control you. I know this may be easier said than done.

As we age, things about our body chemistry change. I don't know who has been treating your pyschological issues. Joe hates his MD psych doctor but he swears by the fellow's nurse practitioner and I have seen the fruits of her work in simple medication adjustments or additions that have made a huge difference in the way Joe feels.

My advice is to continue to look for a doctor, whatever their specialty, who will listen to you and work to help you get your life fully back into your control. My late partner suffered from depression and they never found a cocktail that fit him to the "T" but if it turns out you need psych meds, finding a good MD is paramount. Willy-nilly prescriptions of medications without close monitoring and being available for consultation isn't good.

It sounds to me like you have come SUCH a long way! That is something to be thankful for and hold close to your heart! It shoud give you a measure of hope, too!

The work we are doing here isn't easy. I get so frustrated every evening. I feel like a vampire sometimes, as soon as it gets dark, I get edgy, can't relax, etc. I do sleep but fitfully. And all the while looking at the clock and wishing for the sun to come up and put that "me" to bed.

At the same time, I sometimes tear up in the midst of my frustration because I am SO thankful I am in control of my life -good, bad, whatever! It isn't controlled by a pill any more.

All any of us can do is what we feel is best at any given moment. Worrying constantly serves NO helpful purpose. Careful planning, sure, but once you do that, try not to worry. If you enjoy the bible....check out Matthew 6:24-34.

Randy... Thank you for the kind words.. I so needed to hear it. I looked up the passage you gave me and totally agree.. Its amazing that we try and control our lives when we should be handing it to God.

I do think I accumulated a toxic level of Tram over the course of 12 years, With the mixture of anti-depressants. I tried and tried to tell that quack i was feeling out of control but he just didn't listen. Still insists that Tram and mix is no biggy. I have heard a few (Scary)stories of his patients dying when there was no reason for it. So goes to show you...

I am just so sad about what I have done to my marriage, He is fed up and just wants to move forward and not mention the past I have caused. I am one that dwells in it. I so want to fix things that I cannot. Which when I do try and talk about it he gets sooo FRUSTRATED with me.

Since removing the tram,I know that God is trying to help me. I get messages all the time from people mentioning God. I just need to listen more. Let go and let God.. I need spiritual healing for sure.
Thank you so much.

KD! ALL of what you are experiencing, I DID TOO! My husband can tell you! When I was on Tramadol, I was so depressed, I could not function. I became agoraphobic. I could not even go on my front porch. I was extremely paranoid. I was sure everyone was talking about me, I was moody and in a dark mood. Most of the time I would take my meds and secretly hope that this might be the time all these meds might kill me.

Then the detox started. I formed a close, personal relationship with my toilet here at home and while I was in rehab. I could barely sit down. I threw up everything the first 3-4 days. Sweat pouring off of me, yet I was freezing.

Whilst in rehab, things changed. By the second day I saw things much clearer. I became super hungry. The food was suprisingly good. The only thing was that the form of pill they were giving me for my antidepressant made me dog sick, so there would be days I could not have my lunch or sit in group. But the nurses were good to me, saving my lunch or bringing me ice water (which is all I ever wanted, and ice was not in abundance). I found myself having this sunny, cheerful disposition. I got along with everyone in my unit. In fact, the night I left, the nurse on duty pulled me aside for check in. I thought I was in trouble. She told me that my happy demeanor was going to be missed, that my attitude and sense of humor was infectious. She apologized for not giving me more attention (thought I did not notice it), she said, 'there are people who need more attention, your always seem to be doing so well, you have that gift to get along and be friends with everyone'. Gift? Don't know about that...but I did feel like myself again.

And the heart thing! I am just feeling my heart begin to calm down. I have a lot of anxiety issues, and I tend to not breathe correctly, which contributes to anxiety and racing heart. When I feel it getting out of control, I listen to my breating. I count slowly (in my head) 1,2 to breathe in and 3,4 to breathe out. Sometimes I do a little mantra like, 'let it go' (inhale) 'this too shall pass' (exhale). Whatever works. The heartbeat will settle down. It just began to calm down for me. I was on this garbage for 3-5 years and I was taking lethal amounts. If you ca get out with your kids, run around, go for a walk, dance, just a little exercise will calm your heart down some.

That may not be the best news to hear, but I will tell you something great. You are free of that terrible medication. All is not lost with you and your husband. And now that can see things clearer, and appreciate how you were acting, perhaps you can talk to your husband, and tell him how you are feeling. These things can happen in a marriage. People get sick.

Our society accepts sickness in a limited way. We seem to be sympathetic to people with a broken leg, in a wheelchair, or cancer. But we do not seem to be able to accept mental illness. I think that is because the illness is not as obvious or transparent as the others. But it is just as legitimate. You cannot 'snap out of it' or 'think positive' and have it go away. Clearly the Tramadol messed with your head. It did with mine too. I find I am so much better mentally and physically (I was taking it for chronic pain in my left shoulder/arm/hand) since I got off this stuff.

You are going to be okay. All the stuff you are going through will pass, it just takes time. I finally told myself that this is going to take 90-120 days before I am completely free of this junk. Of course, your mileage my vary.

The first 30 days were the hardest for me, but then you have much more good days than bad days. Yesterday I was so draggy and depressed, so I started to do some prep work for my art, different paper treatment tests, finding the right text to do my artwork on, etc. I am recycling pages out of an early 20th cent medical book that is 1400 pages long. It is about the size of an old webster's dictionary we had in the library in jr high school. I spent most of my afternoon working on that and journaling my different techniques in getting the pages ready. Within a few hours I was in good spirits again, laughing & joking with my husband.

I know it seems like all of this will never end, but it will. You will be surprised and pleased with the difference.

I finally got the flu that's been going around...Damtram/rain...I don't know how you guys stayed so strong. I want ANYTHING that will make me feel better. I know I need to relax into it...and accept that my body is fighting the bug and it will take a few days...but I'm just so not into it right now. I've been fighting this type of battle for almost 2 months...I just want it to be over.

I want to offer encouragement to Nora and KD...you guys are in my thoughts though...I second (third?) randy's advice...anyone fighting this battle and reaching out for help here is a warrior - and so deserving of good things to come. and they will come. before I got sick I was feeling pretty damn good.

Nora....so glad to hear today is better! I am also glad you could confirm some of KD's issues, as I was just guessing.

KD....If hubby needs a break, you may need to give him some time, and if you need to talk, find a counselor, but honestly, nothing is better than a friend either in person or here. Just not a quack - there are plenty of those in the world not just your old MD.

When I talk with you two, I feel so blessed that I am having it so easy compared to you. I also feel a little guilty! But y'all and DamTram are heavy on my mind today.

I just got back from playing a funeral for someone I never saw. I don't know whether these emotions on my palm are good or bad...maybe both. I couldn't speak to anyone I just sneeked out before the final blessing. Since it was a freebie, I did not feel it necessary to provide muzak for going out, too, although the funeral home owner who is old fashioned and believes in live music and has installed a pipe organ in the chapel offered me a job as chapel organist. I have to go discuss it with him. I already have three part-time jobs, but he said all I had to do was say no if I couldn't do a given time. I have to be at St. Bart's from 9-2 T-W-Th that leaves a lot of time available for him!

You all have brought me good advice and encouragement, I am truly blessed to have a group of people... Thank you for your kind words and strength.. I will trudge forward, and pray in time that the things will eventually dissipate from my life. I know I shouldn't feel such anger towards my hack doctor but I do..

OK...KD...more wise words, and these did not come from me. Anger is okay...it serves a purpose, but sooner is better than later to let the anger go. Anger we hold ourselves only hurts us. And getting rid of serious anger like you have (and deserve to have) is hard. Like a weed with a big taproot, you can't just yank it out...you gotta dig deep and get ALL of it, otherwise, it will come back to bug you again.

To anyone who is hurting I wish with all my heart I could make it better. All I can do is offer a bandaid of love, but the real healing comes from within your own hearts and souls, all you have to do is ask, and it is there for the asking, just waiting for you. All you have to do is tell your higher power, that part of each of us that is God, thank you, and then listen to the silence. It works.

StephC sorry to hear that, and yes it *****.....sudafed (the real kind) and aspiring kept me going, and benadryl at night helped the pain and insomnia. Oh and I took at least 2 grams of vitamin C a day (buffered kind). and other things that failed, like nyquil etc etc..Hopefully you'll find relief!
I'm still holding as better today from last night so I'll say I'm lucky and hope I'm done with the flu.,
On another good note, my car was ready, the sick mechanic made it in to work and put the belts on, and the shop owner (friend) did NO charge again (blessing for me even though he is muslim). I tipped the mechanic $20 for his time and to make him happy from working in an oily mess that is my car!!!........The bad news is the belt still slips from 2 things. 1. oil drips onto it from a bad leak (way expensive to fix like $500) and 2. the tightener bolt is missing from the alternator and is all but impossible to find. So that means every time I start the car and at almost every stop, there is a 'squealing' sound from the belt that drives you nuts. I stop it by quickly turning the car off, then on again to catch the belt..This is not good for the car, but I have no choice really, being a pizza guy lol...I plan to re-change the oil and add the no-leak thickeners like I always do and that slows the leak but doesnt stop it... The most important thing is that the car drives and I can work and make money. It also leaks anitfreeze and overheats about weekly, but that is another story and I just keep adding fluid and stop leaks to control it.....I have no credit and no real cash to get a better car so I HAVE to make it work..Tough catch-22 right now... But at least as Willie Nelson says, I'm 'on the road again' lol....
Gotta get to walmart today, theres alot of strays and wild animals waiting for me to get food!

Rain...best of luck to you man with your car, especially since it is so important to your work.

Last summer my tranny, starter, and alternator all went out in the span of a month and I had no money to fix the tranny, a member of the church I work at offered to give me the money, at which point my parents paid for it, but before that they just fussed at me for not having any savings. They did not know it all went to drugs.

I am lucky. I actually have three cars right now, and one of them very good (2003 Taurus I got with money inherited when my granny died). But I bought Joe a Geo last summer and it is a piece of crap. Paid $1500 and it needs that much work. It could fall apart at any time. I can't sell it to an unassuming innocent, so I pawned the title and have no intention of paying on it. I hope that isn't awful, but those places.....Grrrr.....

Anyway, like I said, hope things keep picking up for you, and religious or not, be sure to say thank you for the good karma you are receiving via your friend. You obviously do something right!! -Randy

Too many posts for me to catch up on, I have had the ultimate reminder that wherever there is life, there is hope & change whether we are ready for it or not. My younger brother was killed in a car crash last week; we were very close & his physical absence engulfs me. I am still in shock that the world is continuing on regardless. Please hug your nearest & dearest, (of all species), for me today, in honor of this precious life.

kdmers, your body would be very accustomed to the presence of tramadol after 12 years. Randy has given you excellent advice, an understanding doctor would make all the difference. It doesn't even have to be an addiction specialist, some doctors who specialize in treating conditions with multiple symptoms, such as fibromyalgia & myalgic encephalitis can be very well informed on different meds & more sympathetic to the random nature of tram withdrawal.

Randy, you are obviously very talented. My brother was a sound artist who managed his own studio & music continues to be a vital comfort to me now, so I am very grateful to you & all musicians.

Nora, I am so sorry you are having these financial struggles & wish you the best of luck for your husband's interview.

as i sit the a hospital room, here with my unconscious mother (going on 10 hours) waiting for her to wake from having 1/4 of her lungs removed, your story simultaneously broke my heart and filled me with love in his honor...that i have not lost her, yet.

your loss is incredible, and if he is anything like you...your brother is loved boundlessly. thank you for posting during this time, and even continuing to offer your invaluable advice. i'm sure that i speak on behalf of everyone that if you ever need to talk/skype/whatever...send a PM message. we are all here for you during this time...and can be so in more ways than text.

madtram, you are in my thoughts and prayers as well. i can't begin to understand the loss of a sibling, but i do know loss. please know i'll be thinking of you and hope you continue to find the beauty in this world where it exists. i don't know what else to say except i'm sorry.

damtram you are in my thoughts as well. your mother is very lucky to have you so please always know in your heart that you have stayed by her side. i too wish for a full recovery for your mom. stay strong and know there are many people in the world, and here in this forum, who love you.

Madtram - I am so sorry to hear of the loss of your brother. I will be thinking of you here in Melbourne.

DamTram - I am also hoping for a full and easy recovery for your mum. My mum had a kidney removed when she was 80 due to cancer and it was a very dark time. She's now 82 and doing very well for her age.

I have been following all of your posts and want you all to know that even though I am not around to post as much I am very happy to see the progress you are all making. That's the wonderful thing about this forum, we can all have pride in and hope for each other no matter where we are at.

MadTram....So sorry for your loss. I lost my first partner very suddenly due to a massive pulmonary embolism. I had the luxury of being with him. That was in 2006 - even today the memory of that day long ago is surreal. Our loved ones stay with us in our hearts always, and even as they continue the pilgrimage in a different way and place, I believe they do check in. But I know how hard sudden loss is. We honor all who have gone before by living our own lives to the fullest.

I will certainly be thinking of you and your little brother as I make music this week.

Hi, I am new to this forum and would absolutely WELCOME some advice from someone that has taken a high dose of Tramadol then gone to Sub for tapering.

This is humilating to admit but I am on 36 (50mg) Tram a day! I have been on this for approx 3 years. I had one seizure (Im sure one will ask or warn) about 2 years ago. Thankfully I have not had one again.

I desperately want to get off but afraid of cold turkey because I am on such a large dose afraid of seizure (possibly) and that I will not be able to take care of my daughter and work (divorced and work full time).

I would prefer not to take off work to go to a rehab (what I would like to do) because my office is going through a re-org and we have a RIF (layoff) period coming and want to be sure I am not giving off negative signals.

Anyway, my doctor is one of those "hands off" guys. He easily prescribes with little to no supervision at all. He sent me home with Suboxone which I am scheduled to go back in today to ask for Subtex. He did not give me much advice how to take, I have found everything on the internet.

First, since Tram is a combo of opiate side effects and Seretonian (may have spelling wrong) I do not want the Naloxone (again, spelling may be wrong) that is combined in the Suboxone. Naloxone reverses the Seretonian levels in your brain and for a heavy Tram user that would be too much a hit to my brain and am concerned for seizure or very bad depression (worse than normal). So I prefer the subutex that does not have that added drug.

Second, has anyone been on a high dose of Tram and gone to Sub? I can't find anyone. I would like to know the following:
1) Do I need to taper down to a lower dose before going into the initial withdrawal period to take Sub?
(or just "stop" and wait for the withdrawal to bet to the point I can take the sub). **I do have the COWs schedule so
realize I need to be at a certain moderate to severe state before taking.
2) What doesage is considered ok to go to the Sub if I do need to taper down alittle.
3) How long did you wait before the withdrawals were at the point it was ok to take the sub? I know everyone is different but with Tramadol, unlike even stronger Opiates, it stays in system longer. I almost feel I need to treat myself as if I was on Meth - wait 32 hours before taking the sub.

Anyway, any advice would be appreciated.

I have tried to just taper with Tram..dont do very well. I know, Im a mess.

First of all, you are not a mess. You are a human being, and that human thing can make life not so perfect.

I am sure you are aware, that you are takingnsome dangerously high levels of Tramadol. From what I have learned, you are more prone to have seizures on the Tramadol than coming off it.

I was talking to my therapist about people using suboxone to wean off of Tramadol. He did not advise it, but you are taking such high levels, it may be a different situation. I thought I was taking high levels when I was taking 10-12 50mgs a day!

It is great you have the smarts to do your own research. But I wonder, are you able to see another Dr for another opinion?
I went cold turkey since that wad the only way I could do it. Looking back, I am glad I did it, but it was hell. I think no matter which way you go, there are going to be some rough days ahead, whether it is detoxing from the tramadol or the subs.

I did not think I needed to go into rehab until my 3rd day of recovery, and I then realized that coming off this garbage was not going to be so easy. I am not sure where you are, but in CA, they cannot fire you if you are going through rehab for drugs or alcohol.

Please, please get help. This is a serious thing. I wish you the best of luck.

Hello Everyone...it's has been way too long since I've posted out here... Most of you I don't recognize..some..like you MadTram..I am so sorry for your loss...I lost my only brother 2 years ago..so I absolutely understand your pain. I just wish you peace and comfort as you go thru your grieving process... I remember when I started to accumulate some recovery from Tramadol..i always wanted to come out here and see folks who had long term recovery..post so that I could continue to heal with the help of their strength and encouragement. But everyone has busy lives and I was begging others to post as there were many new folks coming down the pike always needing help .. so guess what..I've done the same thing..gotten so busy in my life that I've not take the time to keep up out here.
for this i am truly sorry..but folks believe me when i say that this site is largely responsible for getting and keeping me off the Tramadol. I also have a good dr. and a good therapist..and changed my anti-depressant cocktail and hit some 12 step meetings.
Today Im Tram Free for 307 DAYS. Please believe when I tell you that it can happen..one day at a time. My thinking and reasoning ability has returned...my energy is back for the most part.. I will be forever grateful to Emily for creating this site...and for all those who pioneered..and shared their experience, strength ..hope and their frustrations. But I am equally grateful to all the newcomers...who remind me what it was like...i know how much courage it takes to come out here and post..and the seemingly impossible task of ridding your system of this awful drug...if you had told me one year ago that i would have 307 days today..i would have said BS..no way...
I tapered..that was only way i could do this...it worked for me..doesnt work for everyone..we all have to do this in a way that makes sense.
I want to wish you all so much peace, strength and courage as you go down this road...it's not easy but you CAN DO IT.
Blessings...
Pat

Madtram I am very sorry for your loss.
Damtram I hope your mother gets better.
I also hope everyone here continues to fight the good fight. Alot of wonderful warriors here.
I have a headache again today, but its the kind I used to get from my neck injury and sinus, theres not too much I can do about it. Hoping otc bufferin can help some. Have to work tonight for 1st time since belt broke last friday.
Be strong everyone and try to have a good evening.

My husband texted me regarding his 2nd interview. I guess it went extremely well, but the meeting with HR was a bit awkward.

My husband is a software developer. His last job, he was laterally moved into another position, as systems admin of the company. It was a high pressure job, which sometimes my husband does not do so well with. He was called into work one Sunday night when the server went done. He worked on it 11 hours straight and was too scared to call the manager and ask for help. Instead he took it on, snapped then when the bosses walked in, he chose flight instead of fight. Because of this, failing to report, they let him go. So when HR questioned him he explained it the best way he could in the best possible light. But the potential co workers at the second interview really liked him, and were impressed with him.

Nora....people all over Florence are praying for y'all. Best of luck and may karma smile on you both!

MadTram....they are remembering your brother and family, too,

and DamTram....they are remembering your family - especially your morther

All y'all tramadol warriors - thinking of y'all everyadn and the what sei,oi dan.............................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................

Yayyyy, Nora! That is such good news!! I'll be keeping my fingers crossed for the next few days, for you!

Living, thank you for remembering to come back. =) We definitely have bad days up in here, and it's so good to remind ourselves of the light at the end.

Randy, thank you for all of your well-wishes!! I loved the requiem quote for madtram...

SYDNEY! Welcome! You're right, no one here has gone the suboxone route. I think you are probably right about the seratonin issue...I can't even image what that would be like, being even more depleted.

When I stopped, I was up to the amount you were at...but only the last 3 days. I went cold turkey from that dose. I think I was probably seizing during those last 3 days, but I did not have a seizure once I had stopped.

Withdrawal is 4 days of pure hell, but it's only 4 days. And every single minute is less bad than 100 minutes before it. By 7 days, you're functional. I understand your issue with your job, but I predict:

You're going to get sick as a dog switching Tram to Suboxone anyway (Tramadol is not an opiate, and suboxone is for opiates). You're right about the anti-depressant portion, but also remember that Tramadol is a partial-opioid agonist and NOT an opiate.

My advice to you would be to SEE A DOCTOR WHO KNOWS WHAT S/HE IS DOING! Your doctor if lost right now, and you're going to be the one paying for it (either with a lot of pain, permanent damage, or your life). See a specialist either in psychiatry, neurology, or addictions.

Like Nora said, you're going to get sick...any way it happens. Tramadol withdrawal cannot be evaded. Tramadol is a drug from the Underworld, so the only thing that could halt the withdrawal symptoms would be a gift from heaven...and that surely isn't going to be a pharmaceutical, I think we can all agree.

Find a doctor to ease you through this. I know tapering is awful, but even if you did it quickly, like in a few days...it might be less dangerous than coming off 36/day. But I am no doctor, and it is another doctor you should see.

Thinking of all of you!

P.S. Mom is awake and talking, but still at the hospital. We hope she will start her recovery at home in the next couple of days...it's scheduled to take ~ 2 months, since they took out 1/4 of her lungs. Because of that, though, there most likely will not be a recurrence...esp since it had not spread to her nodes. Thank you for your powerful thoughts and prayers....THEY WORKED!!!! Bless you all.

I am thinking of you DamTram and your family.
Everything seemed fine until later in afternoon, Which I notice to be my worse time. Panic, and odd thinking. When I worked in the nursing field, I worked with Alzheimer's patients and also noticed they also had down time later in the day. Called it sun-downing. I spoke with my mom who said maybe not enough Melatonin supplied. Not sure really. I looked the supplement up but worried as it produces Serotonin which I think I have too much right now. Not sure what else I can take naturally to help with this issue.
I am taking
B 100 twice a day
Gabba 3 pills
5 HTP 150 mg
Valeran 2 pills
Folic Acid
Omega 3- 3 pills
Magnesium 3 pills
E 400
I seemed to be in more control yesterday of my odd thinking with the exception of later afternoon, Lasted about an hour and as fast as it came it left. I prayed and prayed for guidance and strength.
I felt at ease after that and actually had a very pleasant night with my husband with no ( reading into everything he was saying) YEAH!!!
He even told me last night that I should look into a lawyer to sue my quack doctor. He is a very quiet man, so it made me feel like all this that I have gone thru he is now understanding. Very hard to cope with addiction plus feeling like I am dealing with it alone. So I felt "confirmed"

HE DOES CARE Whoohoo..
Thank you Randy for the passage I printed it and posted it where I can remind myself.
I am wishing that today we all let go of our anxiety and look for joy in our lives...
Kelly

KD - What is the dose of each GABA pill? And I think 100mg 5htp is recommended? Not totally sure. What I do know is that....it sounds like too much Dopamine running through you, not Seratonin. Dopamine is the neurostransmitter that is affected during delusions, but I'm not sure if any of your supplements are to blame. I just don't know enough about them.

Whenever I was having an adverse event, I would:

Stop taking one supplement per day and record how I felt. Then the next day, take it again but stop a different supplement. Same thing. I know it's dumb, because really it takes a few days for anything to clear your system...but it seemed to help me in figuring out which ones were making my heart race or making me TOO tired.

If I were you, I would sue that QUACK for all you have. Most of us were treated poorly by medical personnel, but he was way over the line.

DEFINITELY see a psych...they are most well-versed in delusions/paranoia, and YOU can inform THEM if they don't already know about how Trama*** can create them.

I hate some of our nicknames....but NoraTorious has always been a favorite. I'm not creative enough to have come up with anything original....I told someone my real name is Ransome (family name), but never been called anything but Randy. I looked at my last post. I fell asleep while doing it (whoopie!)

Sydney...I am not a doctor, but what I have read on the rest of this site about Sub/Methadone or any other substance that is substituted for what ever it is we are taking is scary. In some cases since it is legal that may be the only positive.

My advice would be to find a doctor who understands (or who can be taught by you - tell him to read this journal. There's years worth of knowledge here) and try to taper down slowly. I did not find it hard to go from 15-20 a day to 10. It got harder after that, and at 6 (100 mg three times a day) I eventually gave up and let nature take its course.

You are/were on more than me, but everyone says seziures occur on high doses, not coming off. That doesn't mean there isn't always a first time, but that should ease your mind on that account.

I was having tiny seziures at night. My body would basically quickly jerk (sometimes off the bed) and that was it. I was lucky. I did not know it was Tram related until I lowered my intake and since then it has never happened again.

Like one of our other astute members said, the first 3-4 are really unpleasant. 2 and 3 were my worst, but I was so petrified that it never got as bad as I expected. God help me, I never want to go there again though. I never felt like I was about to die. It just sucked bigtime.

Today is my day 20. I told someone I sometimes feel like a vampire because when the sun goes down I tend to get a little anxious and getting comfortable in the bed is difficult. I do get several hours of decent sleep. I am having some bad days but mainly good. Days in general are fine, just get antsy at night and now not doing anything to try to stave it off, just dealing. I have had some valium a couple of Saturday nights for full sleep since I am organist-choirmaster at two churches and I do need to be fully rested on Sunday. I did my Sunday gig on day 4 and then went back full-time on day 5. I know people who worked through it all. It would be hard. day 2-3 were spent in the bathroom or in the bed on my account, but you could potentially work on day one and then have Sat-Sun as 2-3 and never miss a day. Everyone is different so it would be chancing it.

If it were me, I would taper with a doctors help and skip the sub. I don't really see the point you are going to be SICK. And I did not listen to the others, but I wish I had just taken the plunge long before I did. I was scared, but I totally believe you have to be ready and that happens in its own time.

We are here for you and you can ask questions, fuss, tell us how nasty your w/d is, tell us joyfully when you have that first moment when you see with your own eyes how much better life post-tram will be. There isn't much we haven't heard.

Personally, I just wish you all the best. I know how scary it is. But I am on the other side of the street looking back now, and it really is worth it. The suffering is a small price to pay, and for me got better way sooner than I expected.

Love to everyone. Glad for the good news DamTram. Keep up the good work all! -Randy

I was reading on dopamine and it works harmonically with Serotonin as well.. I will remove individual vitamins but I'm thinking maybe 5HTP not really sure.. But will try anything right now.. Need balance for sure

Well this is a good thing I am taking so wont remove this.... GABA (short for gamma-amino butyric acid), the most plentiful calming messenger. Calming neurotransmitters are so important that in the brain there is 200 -1,000 times the amount of GABA as the dopamine it controls! GABA also decreases muscle tension, but in large doses, can cause drowsiness. Generally, 300 to 600 mg are used; 1,000 mg can be used for children over 13. Vitamin B-6 is necessary to utilize GABA and magnesium, which is the reason that it reportedly can help in hyperactivity.

THANK YOU to all that responded to my situation. I can't tell you how glad I was to see some responses. I tried going on other forums and asked about Tram and had 0 replies...

rt35650, until I read your post I never realized that I was having "tiny" seizures until now. I too have had those tiny jerks while watching TV or sitting on couch. Wow, I never, never realized that was a seizure!!!

Damtram, you are the FIRST person I have contacted that was on my amount or similar. You said you stopped cold turkey from 36 pills aday? I think I am a person that may have to stop cold turkey too if I fail at everything else. I was told that absoultely NOT to stop cold turkey from such a high amount as that would be a danger of seizure?

I went to my doc yesterday and he did tell me he wants me to wean down to about 8 or 10 pills a day before trying to switch to sub. He feels that stopping now on such a high dose, even if it is only for a day (you need to get into mid to high withdrawal before taking sub) because he felt that it is not just high dose on Tram that makes you seizure but suddenly stopping too. The brain is looking for the seratoniam..or whatever and its too much a change.

Now I am confused because most of you don't feel I am at risk for seizure stopping, just continuuing to take. I realize I am at dangerous high..I need to come off NOW.

Anyway, I am trying to taper atleast for now to come down as much as I can. Honestly, if I can get down to 8 or 10 pills I can just get off without sub (my feeling).

Can someone tell me what a good taper schedule is? One pill every 4 days, or one pill every week? How long do I go with each drop? I know some people say 25% less but I can't cut these tiny pills, and have no idea what 25% of the pill would be anyway, It is easier to cut one pill or at least half (I may be able to do that with a pill cutter).

Thanks again for your replies. Its so nice to hear you all care enough to respond.

I would also love to hear experiences from those that went cold turkey from high doses. Damtram, did you have any seizure? Was your withdrawal any different from someone at 12 pills, etc? To me, withdrawal is withdrawal, I dont think our body knows when we are tapering or "jumping"...it just starts to withdrawal same energy as either way.

My only fear of tapering is like I said before "withdrawal is withdrawal". I feel tapering is going through that horrible feeling over and over again every time you drop (if that is the way it happens)? so cold turkey is easier for me if I could do that.

I know some sub users say that when you taper on Sub after the first 5 days of being on it, you dont feel the withdrawal as it has such a long half life by the time it catches up with you, you are down to such a low dose it is not as bad. That is why i thought it sounded good. The drug is in "film" too which is easy to cut into four's (2mg each), which would help me since I am terrible with pills trying to figure out what is what when I cut them.

I went from 10-12 pills a day to cold turkey. It was HELL. No other way of describing it. I went to urgent care, and there was not much they could do, so I went to the ER. Any med they gave me did me no good. I went home that night, and was up most of the night, writhing around, pounding my head against the wall, and just wishing I could die. By the early morning I was in the bathroom throwing up, or having terrible diarrhea. I was shaking, pouring out sweat, and not able to sit, stand, or lie still. I could not have my kitty near me (he is very affectionate, loves to lay all over me, knead my stomach, etc. My husband had to keep him out of the room. I just could not be touched. By the third day I was back in the ER and they transported me to rehab. They gave me meds and monitored me, and by day 4 I was feeling better.

I would talk to your Dr about a taper schedule. I chose CT because I knew I had no other choice. I had another scrip from my other Dr, so my husband destroyed 2 full bottles of Tramadol. Now there is no way I could get it again, and I am thankful for that. I also know that DT from Tramadol is something I would not wish on my worst enemy. I would imagine tapering might make the DT's easier, but I am not entirely sure. You might want to check out the Thomas recipe to help you through it. Good luck, and hang in there.

Sydney, I went cold turkey I wasn't on a high dose just 6 pills a day with a mixture of Antidepressants NON stop for 12 yrs. Which my Doc didn't seem to bother if they interacted.. (They do) I had bathroom issues, every time I ate or drank anything. I too have the jerks in my body and feeling like my insides want to come out. It never occurred to me that it could have been seizures.. It does make sense... Later afternoon's are the worse, and most times at night, I have to get up due to the twitching and jerks. I was prescribed everything and followed what the Dumb*** Doc said. But I knew last year that I was in trouble.I was having bouts of Mania, and Paranoid thoughts. It was the hardest thing I had to do to detox, But I am doing it. My symptoms are a lot like Nora went thru... Those symptoms (Paranoia) were much worse as soon as I stopped taking the tramadol. About 4 days I was so scared. My guess is that my mind was trying to make up for the lack of Serotonin that Tram was giving me. Overload I guess you could say. I am at 24 days clean, and still having tiny bouts with paranoia, but I know that it will eventually leave. I have faith!! You can beat this, and people here are so awesome, If I didn't stumble on this site I really don't know what I would have done. Memory is a issue right now as I get very confused, So I am hoping this all makes sense lol .... Best of luck to you, and know we are here. I am still learning but hope I can be of some help.

Oh forgot, sweats and I was and Is still so very cold!! And I sneeze constantly.. (not sure on that one but heard of others complaining of that.) Heart palpitations the list goes on... Memory again... There is so much I must be missing but others can fill you in..

Sydney - my heart goes out to you - my husband stopped cold turkey from a low dosage (maximum of 4 pills a day for a 3 year period) - he was on NO OTHER MEDICATION - the early stage of his withdrawal was horrendous - he had all the symptoms - flu, mouth sores, heart palpitations and even hallucinations one horrendous night (I think it was night 3!) The fact is that everyone seems to react to withdrawal in different ways - people seem to exhibit a variety of different symptoms - he didn't get the horrendous bad tummy and toilet issues that many on here do - have read a lot about this over the past 2 months (as you do!) and many people who have gone through this state that length of time and/or higher dosage can make the WD worse - however as I said he was on a low dosage although admitedly over a longish period of time. You may react in a different way if you went CT - but I wouldn't risk it, certainly not without support - as other posters have stated find a doc who will listen to you - if you want to start tapering, if you read further back through these journals there are some good suggestions re tapering schedules. Have courage - you can get off the trams and although it is hard you will come through the other side - my husband now going into day 51 tramadol free - is taking nothing other than a multi vitamin (and his back pain has significantly decreased since he stoipped taking the tabs! Ironic as this was why they were prescribed in the first place!) Good luck and keep posting here for support - the people here were life savers for us - wouldn't have coped without them!

Madtram - so sorry to read of your loss - we are thinking of you.

Damtram - glad your mum has had the op and prognosis is good - tell her how many people are thinking of her and willing her well - from one supporter to another tell her I am with her in spirit and we are praying for her here in France.

Well I guess my marriage wasn't strong enough. He is leaving... I faced tramadol alone and suffered alone, went thru the withdrawals and paranoia alone. He doesn't understand, as I originally hoped/thought he would. I will trudge thru as I have always done.
Please keep me in your thoughts as I feel I am loosing it.

KD - I am so, so, so unbelievably upset to read this. Please, please send me a message with your number if you need to talk. Sometimes our friends and family can come with so many opinions, and a fresh ear is what we need. But, listen to me: you're right, he was not helpful OR supportive. And let me tell you that I had been carrying around a broken heart for several years, and until I beat Tramadol did I realize how strong I was and that I was ALL I would ever need - anyone or anything else would just be extra. From what you'd written, he was only a step less supportive than your quack doc. You got yourself through this BY YOURSELF. You stopped yourself from DYING...BY YOURSELF. You WILL start to believe that you CAN and WILL do anything on your own, or with companionship...should you choose to do so.

I found out today something not similar, but still devastating -- my ex-principal (I resigned on Friday) put me on the "do not hire" list. This means that I can never work in our city, again. All of my problems at work this year stemmed from a Fibromyalgia diagnosis, and my consequent worsening through the taking of Tramadol. What I mean to say is -- I would still be in my principal's favor if it weren't for Tramadol, but HOW RELIEVED AM I TO NOT WORK FOR SUCH A DISCRIMINATORY BULLY?! Much the same way...you will one day be SO RELIEVED TO BE FREE FROM A NON-EMPATHIC/UNDERSTANDING AND BLAMING PARTNER!

Again, send me your number. I got an iPhone yesterday, and I'm not afraid to use it.

All my love, KD. I'm a professional at moving on from unfulfilling relationships. I understand the devastation, and listen to me when I say:

I took ~40 for 3 days in a row, and I believe on the 4th day...I only took ~20. Prior to that, I was on ~8/day.

I did not have any seizures upon cold turkey. But, I had only been on Tramadol 6 months altogether. And only on high dose those last few days at the end. Again, the only seizures I had were mini ones those last 3 days.

Part of the magical thing about the Tramadol withdrawal is SURVIVING!! Whether at home or in the hospital, whether with benzos or not, whether with a loved one or alone...you get off of it KNOWING that you did it BY YOURSELF. Also, on Day 2...there's this immediate shift to 'clarity of mind' that you have not had for many months. You will recognize it when you see it, and it will make you want to kiss the sky. Switching to suboxone would take some of your power away from you and put it back in to pharmaceuticals...and this would rob you of one of the gifts that comes out of surviving Tramadol withdrawal (and no one has actually died from the withdrawal, only from taking it...I believe).

I liked the suggestion of taking your last dose on Friday morning so that the REAL withdrawal won't kick in until after work...and then going through day 2-3 and maybe, MAYBE only needing to take a day off on Monday and forcing yourself in on Tuesday. I really think one of the complicating factors of Tramadol w/d is the other medications you were taking/have taken. Those of us on anti-depressants or who had recently come off of them seemed to be affected more. This doesn't make any sense, but it's just an observation. But, like others said...the Thomas Recipe will help you, and there are hundreds of posts on this site about what worked and what didn't.

I like your doctor's suggestion to get down to 10/day, but from experience...this can be done quickly. And one thing WE HAVE ALL LEARNED is that the LONGER you stay on Tramadol, the MORE damage it is causing and the LONGER your recovery will be. Therefore, I just think 1 pill less every 4 days would keep your going for soooo long. Every time I have tapered off of a medication that I couldn't quit cold turkey, I would do it by cutting doses in half. So, if I were on 20 pills/day...I would go down to 10 pills per day the next day. If that was too awful for functioning, I would continue at those 10 until I felt ok. Then, I would do it again...5 pills per day. If I were taking Tramadol and got down to 5 pills per day, the withdrawal would kick in and I would go Cold Turkey. If I were you, I would contact the user sososo or solatesolate (I'm pretty sure they're the same person), as they were on upwards of 50/day and got down to 30 in just a few days with no bad effects. I believe they are down to 20/day now, and are getting ready to jump off.

If it were me, tapering off of tramadol...I would drive decreasing my dose by 5 pills/day. If most of what is out there about this drug are lies, this much is true: IT IS A WEAK OPIOID ANALGESIC, and those doses of the anti-depressant are SMALL. This is WHY we built up such a tolerance/dependence to it. My point is, you can cut out those pills at just a fast of a past as you started to increase them. And, remember, INCREASING them is what caused seizures!

The brain is extremely resilient, and will be working to compensate when it starts to go haywire. Experiment with how low you can get without having symptoms. Once the symptoms start, you'll know what you can and not do with YOUR body and brain.

Yes, you are going to have effects of your system not being flooded with seratonin for many, many weeks. And norepinephrine. You will probably have brain zaps (google the phrase). But, yes, these happen at long-term LOW doses, too. It's going to suck, but you will reap MAJOR REWARDS once you get through it. Like others, my physical pain is now manageable and I no longer suffer from anxiety or depression from which I have been plagued my entire life. Tramadol withdrawal is h e double toothpicks, but Tramadol recovery will leave you a better, stronger person.

Oh KD, I am so very sorry. I know you don't need this right now. But I don't think I could ever be with someone who did not understand or support my decision to get off this nasty drug. You did an amazing, brave thing, and I am sad and angry he cannot see it for what it is.

I may appear to be a hedonist, but I can tell you the one thing I take very seriously is marriage. I waited until I was almost 40 to get married. I do not like to see any marriage disintegrate. Do people forget about, "in sickness and health"? Is there any way he would be up for counseling? I am not crazy about his behavior towards you, but I also understand the dynamics of marriage, and how complicated they can be.

Please do not hesitate to PM me. Please take care and be gentle with yourself.

Wow, so much to catch up on again. I don't get back here much these days but I do read all of your posts when I look in.

I'm actually just checking in to see what my tracker tells me as I have an idea I'm very close to 100 days.

Anyway, I'm back in my back brace and neck support and feeling full of pain and discomfort and annoyed about it all in general but underneath it all there is some clarity and lots of hope that this will pass and I will get the chance to enjoy my tramadol free life. Just doing everything I can to get to that point.

I had the night to think it over, Your all right with the no support. He left, not sure what will happen, I appreciate your support and thoughtful words. I do know that if this is to be fixed its not just me that needs to change. I have dealt with so much alone in the past 13 yrs what does it matter if I deal with this alone too? Its all the same. I do know that I have not been mentally well, and TRULY feel this is a Serotonin MESS!! But I have seen clearer and clearer days. Just feel there was no understanding at all. She looks normal then she IS normal. During those times of paranoia I was so utterly scared.
But today... I decided that I will work on myself, Life is too short to have such sorrow in it.
I will message you soon Dam tram <3 thank you all very much.. I am repeating "let go, let god".. I think I have said it over 10,000 times since the 2 hour nite sleep.

He left this morning without his clothes, and saying goodbye to the kids. How terrible...

KD I think that is totally horrid. How old are the kids and have y'all talked to them together? It shouldn't be your job to make a sweet explanation to them. My late partner's farther left him, his mom and brother and sister by telling her on the phone. "I can't take it any more. You can have the kids, the house, the money." And Steven heard it because he never put down the extension he was listening on. It affected the rest of his life.

NOW is when you really have to take care of YOU....you've got the kids to think about too. How to keep them with some semblance of normalcy. I ain't at all ever dealt with this kind of thing, but you will know people who have.

If the kids are underage, drag him to the cleaners where they are concerned - he owes them. Grrrrr....I am SO sorry and I am so mad at anyone who would be such a weasel. What ever happened to manning up and dealing?

Thanks Randy,
My kids are 14 and 12 and Yes I asked him to come home tonight and discuss things with them but I guess not. I am falling apart, first im mad then I am so heart broke.
Very self centered man, I will have to talk with them alone tongiht I guess. Always me handling things.
I just dont know...

Thanks again for those that responded again (DamTram, Kaz, KB...). I would love to hear from SoSoSo or SolateSolate ?

Im trying to taper alittle to see how that goes. I dont want to go too fast as then it is too extreme on the withdrawals. I am trying to do alittle every so many days (to kick in the half life) before going down 1 pill to delay out the withdrawals as much as possible. I dont know if there is such a thing as "mild" withdrawals but we will see.

SoSoSo or Solate, if you read this I would love to know how you are doing?

KD, you have every right to be angry. His behavior is unacceptable. The very idea that you have had to carry the burden of sickness and recovery, along with taking care of the house and your home, and have your spouse be so reticent really chaps my hide. Get online and find yourself a good lawyer. Then get all you can for yourself and your kids. Remember, God only gives you as much as you can handle, and if you can get through the Tramadol, you can survive anything!

Sydney ~ Yes, you can make your w/d milder with a taper, but it takes a longer time to stop. I stopped taking tram with a very long, slow taper (because I did cold turkey once and couldn't handle it...I'm a weenie like that). At my most I was taking 3-50mg tabs 4 daily...rarely would I take more than that. When I began my taper I first reduced down to 2.5 tabs 4 times a day and set a rigid schedule of when I would take them....in my case it was every 6 hours. Never once did I deviate from my schedule. I would get some mild w/d...like my sleep would be interrupted and a day or two of tummy issues. I would stay at that dosage until I was comfortable again and the symptoms faded. Then I would increase the time increments to 7 hours. Again, letting any symptoms subside. Then I would decrease dose again by a 1/2 a tab and wait on the symptoms to fade....then increase to 8 hour increments....etc, etc....decrease dosage, increase time....you get the point. I did this all the way down to 1/4 tab every 12 hours. Once I finally stopped I totally expected a full on acute w/d, but it never came. I did have some mild anxiety and tummy issues and interrupted sleep, but that is normal. None of it (upon stopping) was unbearable. By the way, I had my doctor's approval and support for doing it that way....she held me accountable for my taper and only game me new scripts that reflected the amount that I needed. I had to keep her updated via email throughout my taper. I'm now only 21 days away from being clean for a year!

I know you are on a much higher dose, but maybe you could try something similar? How many times a day do you take yours and how many at a time?

Also....madtram, I hope you are doing okay. You've been in my prayers. And Pat....so nice to see you again!!! Beth?? You still out there, too?!

Myfreedom, thanks for your advice. I was hoping a taper would do like yours. But 3 50mg pills is not that much..:) However I know I had withdrawal bad enough when I was taking 4 a day...tried to stop way back then too. So I know its hard whether you are on a few or a lot. Its a mental thing with me now because I take so much.

I actually didnt realize I took that many until I decided to stop and counted. I actually freaked myself out. No way did I think I took that much but reality is reality.

Im trying (for me) one pill every 4/5 days. It will take a long time but Im goiing to see how it goes. If it goes well when I get down below 20 I will revisit again if I want to keep going, jump or take the sub.

Right now it is too high to stop cold turkey..I do know that.

I have heard that the longer you taper the better it is because you avoid the horrendous withdrawals. Yes, it takes time but I have the time. I certainly took the time to take these (3 years)...I can stick around to get off. The only problem (for me) would be if I start to feel the withdrawal too much when i taper then I become the big baby and would rather just stop cold turkey or wean off with sub at that point.

Im praying about this too for God to help me. I ran out today..pharmacy doesnt want to fill until Monday so maybe He is trying to tell me something...lol. I may have an interesting day tomorrow..:)

Maybe I worded the first part of that incorrectly.... I was taking 3 tabs, 4 times a day....sometimes 5 times a day. Making my dosage 12-15 tabs a day. Not only that, but I took them for 8 years. No, not quite 36 tabs, but plenty to cause horrendous w/d if stopped too quickly. I tried to cold turkey quit around 2-3 years into my usage (failed after about 4-5 days), but at that time this journal wasn't here and I had no idea how much longer it would last. So I started back. There was no info online about how to stop taking them or supplements to help with w/d or anything of the sort....because everyone said they are nonaddictive blah, blah, blah. I thought I was alone with the tram devil for a long time. We all know better now, though. Thank goodness for Emily or I might still be taking them.

Anyway.... My taper lasted about 5 months, maybe a little longer. Again, I had my dr's support. She had actually offered me klonopin to help during the process, but I refused. I didn't want anything....nothing at all in regards to other prescriptions. I do, however, take my multivitamin, B12, D3 and fish oil and I had a mild muscle relaxer (flexeril) for my back issues....she gave me 15 tabs and those have lasted me more than 14 months.

If you do a taper, only reduce by small amounts at first until you know how mildly/harshly your body will react. Then once you get to a lower dosage, re-assess your situation and take it from there.

Best of luck to you. I look forward to seeing your progress! You CAN do it!!!

Been busy,busy around here, which is good. Keeps my mind off the trams. I think I am 21 days tram free. Only thing I am taking now are the 5htp's. All the vitamins were causing lots of acid reflux. I stopped taking them 3 days ago and the reflux/heart burn has been better each day. I am going to wait a couple of more days and then start taking one every couple of days to see what if any are causing this. Who knows, it may just be my stomach trying to get use to more than one meal a day? Last night was the first night I only woke once, right back to sleep until the alarm went off. Up until then I have been waking up around 4 or 430 and then right back to sleep only to wake back up 15 20 minutes later, over and over until 6:30. Hopefully this is a sign that sleep is getting back to normal (if there is a normal anymore). I really can't complain, because the sleep deprovation this time, hasn't been bad at all. I feel really guilty when I read others post and the problems they are having...

Sydney, I was on them for almost 3 years. At one point was taking 15 to 20 (mostly 20) a day on a regular basis, but at times have taken many many more...When I quit the first time it was horrible. I was on that high dose and stopped cold turkey. I lasted only a week or so and I was back on them. This time I was at 10 to 12 50mg a day and tried to tapper. I would get to 5 a day and the withdraws would start so I would go back to 6. I then decided that I would just cold turkey from there and the withdrawls were nothing like what I had expected. very uncomfortable, but not horrible like they had been the first time at such a high dose.. I also took 1 Xanax the first few nights.. I started my taper a couple of months before C/T. I really didn't plan on quitting, I just wanted to get down to a dosage of 2 a day, when I realized there was no way. I decided It was time. I had hated these things for a long time and realized I would never take "just 2" I couldn't even get down to 5... I was able to take a couple of pills away and then wait a few days and take another couple away, without much side effects, when I was at the high dosage's.. Everyone is different and only you know what you can handle, but it is true, You will feel so much better when you are off. The low energy is my main problem, but then when I was taking tons of Trams I look back now and realize I was exshuasted after popping pills all day trying to catch that energy the first pills of the day would give me.. Good luck. You will do it and you will feel wonderful!

KD, I hope things went ok last night. You have already gone through one of the worst things you can and did it! I think beating addiction makes you a strong person and you did it pretty much by yourself , so that makes you double strong!! Hope you all can work it out and he can see that you are trying so very hard to get better and be more supportive to you!

I am really missing all of you. I don't want to post much because I fell off the wagon. I have not gone over 4 a day and to be honest I'm struggling staying at that amount. I know I can come off of this awful stuff but I will taper slowly this time. I just felt I could'nt get through the WD-I could not do my job due to the fatigue-well that's what crazy tram brain told me and I believed it. I am so glad you are all so brave and successful at this. I know you will all continue the fight. I'll be back!

Sydney - I went with the slow taper as well although I never got to a high daily dose (my problem was I was so obsessed with taking as little medication as possible I was keeping myself in constant w/d without even knowing it). I never took more than 8 x 50mg a day and would often not take any for 12hrs at a time - thought I was doing the right thing but all it did was make me feel like crap most of the time and wondering why i was always sick, exhausted and in pain. It was the middle of one sleepless night that it finally clicked that Tramadol might be playing games with me. That's where I crawled out of bed, got on the net, did a search for Tramadol and, among all the other standard blah blah about Tramadol, I found this site. What an amazing relief that was.

Anyway, I was happy to do the slow taper knowing that every day I was taking less and less of the horrible poison. Once I got to a couple of weeks of 1 x 50mg every 12 hrs I got restless and just wanted to be rid of them completely. The w/d was not pleasant and I have no idea what it would've been like going CT but either way, it's done and i am so grateful that they are behind me. I was glued to this site almost every waking minute (and there were lots of those :-) and don't know how I could've done it without everyone here both old and new.

I'm now having to deal with all of my original aches and pains which is a bit of a full time job at the moment but even on my worst day I will never touch Tramadol again as it actually makes things worse in the long run. I also have extra new pains now and I am sure they are a legacy of Tram. I'm going to get rid of those asap so I can get out there and LIVE. It is frustrating to know that under the pain the depression, anxiety and exhaustion that came with the Tram w/d has all gone now :-) but physically I can't get out there and enjoy it all. It will happen, I just have to be patient for a bit longer and keep looking after myself.

My husband did not get the job. He is very downtrodden. I can only hope there is something coming down the pipeline for him-and soon. Sunday I hit my 60 day mark, and Monday I meet with the museum to talk about (hopefully) volunteering there.

Nora, I'm so sorry. I'm so glad that you still sound positive and are able to be there for HIM during this difficult time! Please let us know how the museum meeting goes, and CONGRATS ON ALMOST 60 DAYS!! Again, it makes me think of on Intervention when they do the follow-up and I would always get jealous at how much happy and better the people are (their lives aren't great, and they're still in rehab, usually..but they are SO HAPPY to be FREE)! So, CONGRATS!!

Ducky, I know I wasn't the only person here that was worried about you. It's horrible, but my mind always goes straight to suicide...since I came so close to it on this drug, myself. I'm so glad that you're okay, and maintaining a low dose!! Do you have an idea of what would've helped you stay off/what interfered with staying off? Maybe we can help?

KD, please let us know how you're doing. And, please please send a PM with your number if you would still like to talk. It would NOT be a burden...I would love to help in any way that I can.

Rain, I am so glad that you got the book and have started reading it! It was so helpful to me that I was supposed to smoke throughout reading it, so that reading it didn't create any anxiety or fear, at all. I know the dude can be kind of annoying in the repetition, but it turns out that the repetition IS the deprogramming...and the important points will stay with you, forever. Let me know what you're thinking about it!

Sydney, I'm so glad some of the taperers have been able to give you such good advice! I hope that you have found a direction that may work for you, and that you find that you may be able to do this without the addition of the subs. Let us know what you decide!

Liz, your posts were some of first that I read when first coming off of Trams. You are so strong and brave, and I have no doubt that you will find a way to get most of that pain in check. Please let us know what works! Will be thinking of you. And congrats on 100+ days!!!! That must feel AMAZING.

JMA, I am sooooo glad that good sleep is returning! And that the 5htp has been helping. I had to stop taking the vitamins for the same reason, and just take the daily, multi-vitamin GUMMIES now! They are so yummy, and they don't hurt me, at all. Sometimes at night, I'll still drink the Ionic Fizz if I feel like my immunity is down. And the magnesium in it is always nice for sleep. =)

I have my first appoint with a rheumatologist tomorrow, and I'm very excited. Fibromyalgia was diagnosed by my PCP and the Tramadol exhaustion over the last 6 months prevented me from ever using the rheumy referral to figure out what was truly going on. So much of my pain is still in my joints, so I'm hoping it's not Rheumatoid Arthritis, and I'm also hopeful that he'll have some idea of what to do for the pain WITHOUT narcotics. I can't wait to see what he knows about Tramadol....

Damtram thanks again for the book, I am at page 50 and will cherish every page, and will update you how its going. Can't wait to be an EX-smoker soon.
On an interesting note though, I've been averaging I dont know, 8-10 aspirin a day couple vitamin c 4-6 sudafeds etc etc for various pain and symptoms. But last night I listened to a self-hypnosis mp3 called 'rest and sleep' but some british lady. I was already tired, but as most of us Ive had not had regular sleep so anything that helps I'll try..Well I woke up a couple times to go the bathroom which is unusual for me, but the MAIN thing is, after waking up, for the 1st time in AGES I didnt take any pills...It didnt occur to me till I was at work that I just didnt have the usual sinus and or headache pain and I didnt take any pain relief. It could be coincidence I don't know.,But I just had to mention it because it was just so wierd to realize I hadnt taken any pills and felt ok....Just not 'normal' for me....But I'll take it.. So the moral of the story is, don't discard the idea of self-help self-hypnosis cd's or mp3's, they could be very helpful and many areas. For me, to quit smoking, and by chance, the rest and sleep track. I've not seen ANY related to drugs or tramadol but there must be some related out there....It may help some here having a tough time..You can easily shop on amazon in the mp3 downloads section and preview any you may be interested in...I wouldve shopped real hard back in january if I'd have thought of it...Why noone ever mentions it here I don't know...Maybe we here were destined to suffer?? Well I've done my share of suffering and am looking for ways to enjoy life again...If I'm not too lazy and remember to listen again to the rest and sleep mp3 I'll report back on it, and any others I get to eventually...(like smoking cessation etc) I've put off the smoking ones for now till I finish the book Damtram sent me..
So in other words keep searching people, looking for ways to make your life after tramadol easier and better. It's tough enough with withdrawal symptoms that go on for weeks and months, let alone the crap life keeps throwing at us.
If I wasnt so weak-willed and foggy after all these years of pill popping and smoking, I'd have remembered that it was transendental meditation that helped me quit crystal meth cold turkey all alone back in about 1981 !!! I then had 10 good years of athletics, yoga, and good health until an engagement gone bad started me back down the path of smoking, pills, and bad attitude towards my well-being....
So keep open minded and realize there are many ways to beat this drug naturally, and many ways to restore good health mentally and physically, we just have to find them....Like I'm trying to do now!!!!!
Hope everyone finds new hope and faith and answers like I'm trying to do!
Have a great night warriors!

i am down to 10 a day now! hey!
syndey i have found that a fast taper down until i started feeling w/d worked for me. i was on 50 (plus i also drank) i got to 30 started feeling it so kept that up till feeling normal the i dropped to 20 for a couple of days i have been on 10 for awhile now and next week i will slowly drop a pill every couple of days.

i will keep u informed how it goes how many r u on now?

kd i so sorry for all the crap u have gone thru. did he know that u were in this struggle? he does seem v ery selfish and if so u are better off getting rid of him rough now but this to will pass

So sorry I let you all and me down. I'm tapering 1/2Pill at a time, this time. Heartbreaking to hear of MT's profound loss, MT's mom's struggle, and Nora's hubby's struggle to work. I think of you all often, and will draw strength from your journeys again. Rain, your determination has always impressed me, I need some more of that. DT asked what was it that sent me backwards? many things all at once and feeling desperately overwhelmed and alone. I will make it back minus 1/2 at a time.

I went to Nashville to the inlaws last night and just got home to Florence, and I have read all the posts.

Nora, I am so sorry. It is hard to keep looking, but that is all y'all can do. Steven was in the same field and carved a little niche out for himself in Silicon Valley working for people who had offices in their homes. He called himself a "virtual assistant." It wasn't huge money, but it helped and he felt good about himself. His clients adored him.

I just heard from a dear friend of mine who has had HIV for years and been very healthy. My late partner and I were with him almost 20 years ago when his partner died from AIDS. Brad has dementia now and his mother is doing all his business and it sounds a lot like Alzheimer's. I haven't talked with him in about a year and a half. I feel really bad because we were just in Nashville and I could have looked him up. I gotta get up there. He says he doesn't have long. His name is Brad....please remember him and his family.

I am getting along without Tram. Still dealing with things like I would have taked a bunch of pills an hour before we got to Joe's mother's, and not doing so was really strange. All was okay. Good visit. Glad to be home.

I will be thinking of each of you tomorrow as I do my thing at my church jobs. Be blessed. -Randy

Ducky - you haven't let anyone down, we all know how hard this is. The main thing is that you are back and heading in the right direction and we're all with you.

DamTram - I've got a great team of physio therapists, GPs, OTs, Massage therapists etc and we're all working hard to sort out my poor old body (turning 50 tomorrow :-). It's costing a fortune and if it wasn't for all of these therapists I don't think I'd have any social life at the moment he he but it's all for a good cause. My aim is to get back to being able to do lots of walking, swimming & yoga so I can build some core strength so I can prevent any further decline.

Sososo - I haven't seen anything from solatesolate for while now. Also haven't heard anything from Lizzielang who was going CT about the same time as me. She had a fall a couple of months ago and did herself some more damage. If you are out there Lizzie I just want to let you now that I often think about you and hope you are well and happy.

SHeLiz-congrats on making it to 100+ days. It sounds like with the help of your Drs you are doing awesome! And 50 is nothing. I think society's obsession with youth is not as prevalent as it used to be. Besides, you are doing so well!

Ducky, please, please do not feel like you let anyone down. I totally understand what you are going through. Though I do not want Tramadol, if I came across some Valium I am sure I would gobble it down. With all that is going on in my life, I sometimes feel I cannot get a grip. I feel kinda powerless. Ducky, you have to do it your way, and it is not so bad. You a taking a small amount. You can get off it. I know your mind is strong, but this med just gets into your system and takes over. Physical dependency is much worse than mental, because your mind and body can be totally at war ith each other. Keep fighting the good fight and know I am here for you! We all are.

Randy, that is so hard. Watching someone decline that way is so frustrating and painful. I am sure ahead was an amazing dynamic person before he got sick, and having him decline like this, well I just get so angry at the injustice of it all. My heart breaks for him and his family. I have lost several friends with AIDS and watched helplessly as the bright, sweet, funny person I know is laying on the floor as their bathtub is overflowing, and he does not know where he is, and is terrified he is going to be put in some dreadful hospital. I only hope the best for you and your friend.

i was put on lyrica and trams almost simultaneously, but i remember taking the lyrica first to see what it would do. the first 2 days, it felt like I was gumby...but I didn't have pain! it didn't do anything to my brain (I felt), but just relieved all of the joint and muscle pain. that went away after those first 2 weeks, and you're supposed to have your doctor bump up your dose after the 1st week, so i did. then, i was also taking it simultaneously with Tram.

one of the side effects of Lyrica is 'tearfulness'. i wish i'd known it, then. what this means is, you don't have to be sad or feel down, but you might become physically tearful/experience the physical symptoms of sadness even though there has been no emotional stimulus. this was the first thing, in august, that set my principal on her journey to be rid of me. her words were, 'see, i can't even talk to you!' i didn't know that i was getting tearful in random situations because of medicine. and i was on such a small dose of the Tram at the time (100mg/day), that i'm sure it was the Lyrica.

I stopped taking the Lyrica in late December, but it ended up helping with the withdrawal from Tram in January...because it eases pain, increases appetite, and relaxes the mind.

I now only take it if my joint pain gets so bad at night that i cannot fall asleep. it helps, quickly.

i could not get on, full-time, because i know that you build up tolerance and it stops being effective...that's what happened with me. this way, i can take it when i really need it and deal with my pain the rest of the time. also, it is EXTREMELY expensive. i'm hoarding it while i still have insurance (ending April 1st, since i had to leave teacher forever, on Friday). also, it causes increased appetite and weight gain...and i'm currently fighting both of those things, as is.

let me know if you have any other questions!

DUCKY - noooooo one is disappointed in you or feeling let down, NO ONE! i only hope that the things that brought you down are dealt with before you jump off, again. the book i sent rain is the 'easyway' to quit cigarettes, but when i read it...i felt every time he said 'nicotine', tramadol could have been replaced and everything would have made even MORE sense. it's by Allen Carr...it would give you the coping skills to get off and stay off of Tram.

SheLiz - So glad you have so many helping hands, and HAPPY BIRTHDAY TO YOUUUU!!! can't wait to hear you feel better, again =)

Feel like a cold or flu coming on, but got through the big shin-dig at both churches (huge music because Lent starts this week and everything goes low-key for fourty days). I felt like crap, but played extremely well. Someone upstairs always steps in when I am prepared but my body isn't!

Been in bed resting and think I need food.

Thanks to those who messaged me about my friend. He is in God's hands. I hope to get to see him as soon as Ash Wednesday's doings are completed.

Jonasmomagain (sorry if I spelled that wrong) and Myfreedom, thank you for your notes. I have to say, I am some what discouraged. I was all hyped about tapering but feel I am not much ahead of where I was. I spend all weekend on the couch. This is the first time I have never left the house. Literally in a 'zone" all weekend. I cut down only 8 pills since last week (the end of day 8 that took me to 36 pills a day. I dont really miss that one anyway as I just went up that high a couple weeks ago (dont ask me why).

I just thought Id write about some of the side effects that has happened to me, I know alot of people already know the nervous energy you feel (but dont seem to get anything done), the daze you can get from taking Tram. Here are a couple symptoms that have been very real for me that may or may not be unsual:

1) Takes away my hunger completely. I can go all day without food. When I start to get hungary I take about 4 or more and its gone. This is probably the main reason I have clung to these for so long. Its a whole other addiction but years earlier I had an eating disorder, and although I am no longer binging and purging (havent for years) my "obsession" with thinness is still there. I am not heavy to begin with..was about 130 when I took these (5'8") and I am an avid hiker and very active (usually walk atleast 4miles daily). So this made my workouts even more intense. The issue is, I am now thinner than my 15 year old. And that isnt right.
2) Although I am an avid excerciser to begin with I have slowly stopped that. Never left my house this weekend. Had no desire other then to vegate on couch. Thankfully my daughter was with her Dad.
3) This is the real unusual and scary thing for me which is primarily what finally got me to the point I need to stop, I guess it is the constant "itching" that Tram gives us that I started scratching open sores all over my back shoulders and "neck". They would come and go.. I would look in mirror and see all these bloody sores. They would evenually go away then I'd do it again. Now I have all these scars on my back and neck that I never had before Tram. I am 49 years old and never had a break out or anything and now Im covered with scars. Some were pretty nasty.
4) And another huge clue to stop, this is the most strange. I have completely isolated myself from the world. I am the type that opens all the shades the first hint of sunshine. Love to keep my windows open and cover my house with open, flowers, sunny decor. Now I have noticed I'll go all day without lifting the shades. I am a recovering alchohlic too (have 3 years) and stopped going to meetings. Thankfully I have not drank and dont plan too but I miss all my friends. I "want" to go but when I try to force myself this urge to just stay home comes over. It is very weird. In the past, if I stayed home one day I couldnt wait to get out and do something, now I go days and nothing. I also find it difficult to even get the energy to shower.

Anyway, I need some encouragement on tapering.

Here is my sick schedule I do now:
At 6:00a I take 4 pills
then around 7 or 8 another 4pills (some time I just take all 8 at one time)
then around 10:00a I take 12 all together (I know this is terrible but I have my body used to getting more so it "remembers" the times if I try to skip and I go through withdrawal (headachy, etc.).
I used to take the latter 12 at around 2p or 3p but slowly I have started taking it earlier and earlier until now it is just hours after my morning dose.
Then around 3 I take another 8. I used to take another 8 around 5 but thankfully stopped that.

What taper can I use to make sense?
I would love to go cold turkey but the doctor who gives me the tramadol scared me to death on the seizures. He said people coming off tramadol have seizures at high doses.
I had one seizure two years ago on Thanksgiving and scared my daughter to death (not to mention my neighbors, etc.). I am so thankful to God I wasnt in car with her or anything and Thank God I have not had one since) but as I said earlier I do randomly get those little zaps when sitting still etc, Sometimes they jerk me up if Im lying down, but no grand seizure again, thankfully.

Jone, it is encouraging to see you were on as high a dose as me. Can you give me what schedule you took your pills and how you cut back.

Sydney, I cut a lot early on with little to no WD - now I know we are all different. So what happens to you will be different probably. My morning pills seemed to be the most important. I need to be out of bed at 7 so at 6 I would take five or six pills. Then I took more at noon, and then perhaps around 5 p.m. and a couple at bedtime (less at night). I could go through 180 in two weeks, but I honestly don't know what my daily average was until I got worried and started watching it. I guessed 15-20.

I can tell you this...Now that I am clean I tend to isolate. If not working or doing something else I have to do I am in bed. I will go out hiking if the weather is nice, but the bed is my thing, and this isn't good. Gotta work on that.

Doing the taper thing was very, very difficult for me. I got down to about 9-10 a day on my own. Then I would cheat. I had my partner get me down to 6 at which point I would find where he hid the pills so the so-called tapering beyond that point did not exist, so finally I just quit.

I don't know how to help you. I do feel a taper is important to get down from our max intake, but at some point if stops working and you gotta jump.

The only thing on this forum I have read is people don't have seziures from lowering their intake. I was having small ones at the higher dose which stopped as soon as my first taper down.

I had a rough first week, and still dealing with a lot of odd stuff, but glad to be tram free. I am not complaining. And I really do sympathize with you. If you don't have another choice....maybe you can go to your doc for each day's pills? At any rate, I think going cold turkey at around 20 pills a day or less, considering your already high dose would make sense. You are going to be sick no matter what. What about a detox hospital??

Hi RT, just so I read your post correctly, did you suggest I go cold turkey around 20/day or taper down more? I do realize at some point it will be better to just jump but would prefer to get down to about 15 or better yet 8 to 10 a day. I calculated if I skim 1 pill in morning and one pill at mid morning (leaving the afternoon alone for awhile) - for me the 10a and afternoon are what really get me through. I could get down to about 14 in one month then 2 weeks later about 8 (now that is if I am diligent and dont mess up). At that point I do think I will jump unless the tapering is going so well I'll just keep going or maybe use the Subutex the doc gave me (holding for security). :)

This morning I ran out so had to go 3 less pills than normal and Im fine so I will stay at this for this week and not take those additional 3 (God helped me make that choice). :)

Im feeling better now that I have it on paper and see it will only take about a month and half to get where doc told me to be.

This not wanting to go out is not so normal for me however I have always been kinda "boring" when it comes to activities. I like to get out for excercise and fun things - amusement parks, hiking, even meetings (I actually love AA meetings) but now anything that requires leaving the house takes effort. Its embarassing and I feel so lazy.

Hopefully that will change. I miss being "present" more with people instead of just straining to keep a conversation going. Someone mentioned that before and I can totally relate..it is an effort just to keep a conversation (almost exhausting). What this does to you has convinced me that I never want any drug in my body again that isnt absoultely warranted.

For me, this was not about being mislead. Since I am in AA, I knew after the first week on this drug it was not good to stay on it even though most of the information said non-addicting. The very first week I had withdrawals. Most of the internet now does say bad withdrawals however the doc I had was, interesting enough, still under impression it was ok. I just convinced myself I needed it despite it wasnt good for me. Never again!

I made a mistake in my amount for today..I thought I had gotten down to 20 but it actually is 25 (oh well) its still an improvement from 28. I am going to try to do more this week, stabilize then do more next week.

Hey everyone, I think it is getting close to 2 months without tramadol. Unfortunately as most know i have had vicodin around the house and i fought it hard but i fell again to it, i have been unable to stop taking them so tomorrow I have checked myself into a rehab center for opiates, i feel like i need to get to the root of why i feel i need to take them and I am so tired of these things. I want to be done with them all. Thank god i havent touched the tramadol but i want to make sure I am completely drug free. Nora I am sorry to hear your husband did not get the job, I will be praying for you. I will appreciate all of your support as i go through this 10day in patient treatment and I am excited and nervous to finally be rid of the last pill controlling me, I am happy to see the progression that is being made every time i check back with this forum. I am sad and dissapointed in myself that i am unable to just tough out the vicodin but after stopping the tramadol i think the addict in me just grasped on to it, either way I am ridding myself of this. I am happy to see randy and damtram continuing to place more days behind you both! If i can help anyone with my expierences i will just ask, I have tapered off high doses as well as cold turkied many times. I will be unable to post for the next 10days but will get back to anyone after just keep me in your prayers and thoughts I am very nervous.

Sydney - Tram use also made me very reclusive. The longer I took them, the worse it got (8 years total). During the early use I was still "normal" and was very social with friends and neighbors and other parents of my son's friends. After tram turned on me and I started to avoid people at all cost. To make it worse, I had 3 different neighbors that I was really great friends with and ALL of them moved around the same time....granted one of them had become quite the pill user herself and was a nutcase by the time she finally moved....but still, all my neighbors were gone in a short period of time. All 3 had children around the same age as my son...so he sort of lost his friends at the same time. Tramadol just compounded that whole situation for me.

At nearly a year clean, I am still getting back to normal. I don't intentionally avoid things anymore. I will answer the door now without peeking out to see who it is first and answer the phone without worrying about having to talk to someone....silly stuff, I know...but that's what it turned me into. I think I've said it before, but my biggest change (meaning: getting back to normal) came around 4 and a half to 5 months clean. It was then that I saw my biggest change for the better. At that time I was beyond nearly all the nuisance symptoms and I began to really feel like ME. I sort of hit a plateau shortly after that and then my next big improvement was about a month ago (which was my 9 month mark). I made a few adjustments with some vitamins and meds and I feel very close to the original me now....I would say I hover around 95% normal now. I'm sure if I would make myself get up and exercise I would be even better. :P

Okay... So, your current daily amount is about 36-ish on the schedule you listed above? When I was still taking them (and before my taper) I would take my "wake up" dose around 8am....then again around 11am.....again around 4pm....again around 9pm and sometimes an additional dose depending on how late I was awake (I was quite the nite owl on tram). Once I talked to my dr and made the decision to taper I made myself a strict schedule of taking them every 6 hours in the beginning. I started at 8am, then 2pm, then 8pm then 2am....I had my phone alarm set to remind me take them at those exact times...even during the nite. I would just bring my dose to bed and put it on the nightstand along with water bottle, wake up when the alarm goes off, take the dose and back to sleep. Once I was on that schedule for a few days (less than a week I think), I dropped 1 pill from each dose (I *think* I dropped 1 pill from each dose...might have just been 1/2 a pill....don't recall at the moment....I didn't keep a log that early on). I stayed on the 2 tabs every 6 hours until any symptoms were gone. Then I increased to 2 tabs every 7 hours and waited out the symptoms/discomfort. Once symptom free again, I dropped to 1 and 1/2 tabs every 8 hours and etc, etc, etc all the way down to 1/4 of a tab every 12 hours before stopping completely.

At some point in the past I would take different amounts at different times of the day....usually my second dose would be my biggest dose. Before I'd ever met with my dr I'd decided I wanted to taper off them and had began to regulate my intake....meaning, I wanted each dose to be equal. I didn't want my body to "want" more at certain times of the day than others. I think it made it easier for me. I'm certainly not a doctor, but maybe you could start out the same way?? Start a regular schedule of exact times per day? Maybe start with something like 11 tabs (or maybe 10 if you are feeling ambitious?) at 8am and again at 2pm and again at 8pm etc?? I know 6 hours may seem terrifying, but you can do it if you prepare yourself ahead of time. It probably won't take but a few days to get your body adjusted to that schedule....it's just the mental part that you have to overcome, the physical isn't so bad (in terms of creating the schedule). Go ahead and think of things you can do to make that time pass quicker.....DVR lots of tv shows/movies to watch, pick up some crossword puzzle books, load up the ipod with great music (a lifesaver for me), take lots of hot showers/baths. One of the things I did early on was lots of web surfing. I love all the funny pictures on the cheezburger and people of walmart sites. I think I have seen every picture on those sites....just something else to occupy a withdrawing brain! lol Also, get your vitamins and have them ready for the adventure...particularly B12 (was and still is a lifesaver for me). You may wanna get some immodium if you haven't already. One thing I found VERY helpful during my taper was a probiotic. I just got the walgreens generic one....30 capsules for like $20. BIG HELP!!

It will take some time and determination, but you CAN do it!! Don't be afraid of tramadol....be ANGRY at it. Be angry at what it's done to you, be angry at how it's changed you. Keep that anger alive during the journey....it really helps. Once I no longer FEARED tramadol, all was well and I was on my way. Never once did I stray from my schedule, nor did I ever cheat. I was on a mission. Keep coming here and posting...it helps. We all know how you feel and what you are going through. As you know there's always someone around to help encourage you along the way.

Sydney - Just to add to the list of great things MyFreedom has given you to help pass the time. I got a whole lot of talking books on CD from the library. I listened to them quite a lot especially at night. It was like having someone read you to sleep at night. Even if I didn't actually fall asleep and even if I wasn't totally able to follow the story it was still very soothing and a good distraction.

Sydney, if it is any consolation, I had a lot of the same issues you had on the Tramadol, and the grow worse and worse. Last year I turned into a wreck. I would not leave the house, rarely answered the door, or socialized with friends. I became agoraphobic. I could not get past my porch. I stopped taking care of myself. And bad depression, very suicidal, I tried to kill myself 3x last year.

You know how not hungry you are? Well get ready, because once you have been off the Tramadol for a week or so, you will become incredibly hungry. But it will even out.

Sad news from both my husband's family and mine. In mine, a close friend of the family has died. This man and his wife met my parents when my mom and she were both about 5 months pregnant with their first child (that would be my big bro who is now 50). They are good people and it breaks my heart. On my husband's side, his great aunt died. She did live a fantastic life, but this has been a blow to his mother as well as his maternal side of the family. Very very tough news.

Nora, my sincere condolences for your family's losses, I think you & I are now overdue for some good news.

SheLIz, happy birthday for yesterday, I hope the pain did not put too much of a dampener on your day. I will be joining you in a couple of months but am too bogged down at the moment to see much past one day at a time.

Sydney, the others have given you some great advice. The only thing you need to do to get off tramadol is to make sure you are not increasing your dose or getting stuck on one dose level for too long. Subject to these basics, anything goes. Some do find that setting & sticking to D dates for reducing doses & quitting is the only way they can stick to a taper but when coming off such a large dose, it's hard to know how & when reductions will hit you. For this reason, I would not focus on the precise cold turkey point until you are at a much lower dose.

If you can access the extended release form of tramadol, you may find that this helps smooth out the daily withdrawals.

Randy, sorry to hear of your friend's deterioration & sending strength to you & his mother to see you through this difficult time.

Ducky, all that matters is you have come back, we have already forgotten that you were MIA for a little while.

SoSo, you are doing so well, please keep posting. Unfortunately, no-one seems to have heard from Solate. I put her in touch with Tramahater, another member who quit cold turkey from a high dose but have heard nothing since then.

Rain, I believe in self-help hypnosis & meditation in the same way that I believe in physical exercise, however for some reason, I find it harder to keep up a mental practice than a physical one. Pre tramadol, I was in a great routine & it got me through one of the toughest times of my life when my first husband went crazy on cocaine, resulting in the loss of our home & me getting cervical cancer because he was indiscriminately sleeping round, among other things,(hope this isn't TMI).

However, I lost my practice during the tramadol years & although I did try to get back to it during withdrawal, I didn't succeed. If you go back far enough through the journal, you will see people using these approaches & I would always encourage everyone to experiment with mind technologies as they are side effect free & may well work wonders. I am very glad that they are having positive effects for you.

Finally... I was confirmed yesterday that I had/have serotonin syndrome.. My neurologist called and spoke with me...YEAH I am not loosing it. ( Sort of speaking)
My husband came home... ( The night I wrote he left) He understands....Feels bad... and we are working things out. As much as I was hurt and angry, I also understand his frustrations. I really wasn't in a good frame of mind at all. We have a way to go, but I know that things can be worked on.
My neurologist said he will sit down with my husb and explain what had happened which I think can only help.
My quack Doc is in for it, as now I have the proof I need to sue him, He mixed Prozac and tramadol as well as Seroquel which are all known to cause the syndrome.
I have been trying to calm things with myself and my family and that was the reason I haven't been on. But I so appreciate the help and support I have found with you all. I hope that today is a good day for you all.
Off to look for lawyers and see what they think. I am not a sue happy person but I feel he needs to be stopped. I am angry that I my life means nothing to that man.
Every day, feels closer to getting my normal life back its about time after 12 yrs...
<3

MyFreedom and others, thank you so much for your great recommendations. It really helps to see that others had similar if not exact routine as me. I too take my strongest (largest) dose on my second dose (10:00a ish). Last night I fell again. I started to sweat and feel "cotton head" around 7p. I rationalized that this was in no way that bad and definitly doable rather than if I was cold turkey. Also that I would be going to bed soon and sleep through most of it, but when I got home I took the extra 8 pills anyway.

Now I am mad..mad at myself. I am starting again today reducing 3 pills from my morning dose. I will analyze MyFreedom's schedule. So, you suggest 10/11 pills every 6 hours? Right now I take them about 3 (and when Im worse) 4 times a day. 6a, 10a, 2p and sometimes 5p however I am determined not to take the 5p today. So I only took 9 pills on my large dose this morning instead of 12. Im going to try to do the every 6 hours, I think that is a good idea to get somewhat "even".

I work from home so keeping busy is not a problem. But I work behind a computer so you know how that can be when you dont feel good. But I know this is important.

By the way, I know that hunger comes back with a vengence. In fact, that is how I know Im starting to withdrawal as that is the first thing that happens to me, I start craving something to eat.

I hope I dont go the other way around when I stop..eating everything in site! :)

Question: did anyone else lose weight on thid drug? I rarely see people talk about that but that was the first big side effect for me..not being hungary. I think it speeds my metabolism too as now that I dont walk or hike as much doesnt seem to affect me. Before if I missed a day I would feel it.

I am new here... I suffer from Fibromyalgia and chronic IBS- I was put on Trams about 8 months ago- taking up to 8 per day- My doctor had no problems giving it to me, although the ONLY warning he gave me was that it can cause seizures at high doses (bear in mind- he gave me these MONSTERS in a bottle after I asked to NOT be put on anything addicting)

Ok, 8 months later here I am, a victim, so I go to the dr. after i've run out, and haven't had any in 3 days- I haven't been eating, sleeping, low grade fever, flu- like symptoms and had lost 6lbs in those 3 days- now I see this "DR." who has NEVER had an issue giving them to me, refill after refill- I tell him I want to get off of them... what does he say? " OK SO THEN STOP!" can you BELIEVE THIS CRAP?

I said ummm... yea tried that and felt HORRIBLE, I need to taper off- he IMMEDIATELY started to treat me like TRASH- started asking me INSANE questions about " do you take street drugs?" " are you on heroin?, speed?, " I wanted to knock all of his teeth out... then FORCED me to take a drug test, WHICH I GLADLY TOOK, wrote me a script for 5, yes FIVE- and basically told me to take a hike!- at this point im ready to cry, I came to this PIECE OF CRAP for HELP! and he treats me like an ANIMAL? - I go to the nurse and say I would like to put in a FORMAL COMPLAINT- I do, she obliges and tells me to see another dr. in the practice that is a little more sympathetic and knowledgeable- SO I do... SAME THINGGGGGGGGGG- Now she's going to the other doctor to ask him! When I told her what he did! I thought I was in a NIGHTMARE!- She comes in, basically again treats me like an animal- gives me 4 yes FOUR and tells me to go to the HOSPITAL for detox b/c there is NO REASON WHY I should be having ANY withdrawal symptoms from this drug.

YOU STUPID C*NT, I said to her... when the drug test comes back NEGATIVE, and one of your patients DIES b/c you aren't educated enough to know what you're prescribing- I hope you NEVER SLEEP AGAIN.

NOONE UNDERSTANDS THAT THIS DRUG IS A NIGHTMARE! I COULD HAVE BEEN SHOOTING UP HEROIN THIS WHOLE TIME AND HAD THE SAME IF NOT EASIER WITHDRAWAL SYMPTOMS!

SO here I am- 6 pills, no sign of a refill- and one part of me is THRILLED b/c maybe i'll be finally done with them, and the other part of me is like ... I have work, I am moving in 2 days... How will I get through all of this?

I read about all of the natural remedies, 5hpt, probiotics, valerian root and highlands restless leg.- I will have those tomorrow after work. I might resort to asking my mother for some vicodin *JUST IN CASE I end up ready to throw myself off of a speeding train*

A lot of you had time to lay around and die, but I don't remember reading anything about how to cope when you have NO CHOICE but to get up and work, no calling in sick, moving in 2 days no way out, HELP :(

ps- I must say I am very motivated that I'll be ok, by reading all of the posts and I thank GOD ( whatever he/she may be) that there is a forum for me to vent on! thank you all!

HI everyone. Not sure if this post is open. I am Ryan 27. I have been addicted to Tramadol for 1.5 years. I was using 400 MG a day during this entire period. I was getting them from my Aunt as they were not perscribed and she lost her perscription and I was forced to quit cold turkey and didnt have time to wean off. I am just ending day 3 and was actually able to make it off the couch today and even worked. I think getting out of the house helped morale. Depression and anxiety are very high along with weakness, restlessness at night, insomnia, sneezy, stuffy etc. At what day did you guys have the withdrawals settle down and eventually end? Thanks a lot.

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