I'm wondering if members are familiar with the Beethoven: Complete Symphonies / Blomstedt, Staatskapelle Dresden recordings and if so would you recommend that I get them? They are available at a very reasonable price in Tower Records in Dublin.

Seán

"To appreciate the greatness of the Masters is to keep faith in the greatness of humanity." - Wilhelm Furtwängler

I haven't heard them, but I can tell you that I've seen them recommended many times on various message boards over the years. Whenever the subject of a good budget Beethoven set comes up, this is one of the sets that always gets mentioned.

"If this is coffee, please bring me some tea; but if this is tea, please bring me some coffee." - Abraham Lincoln

"Although prepared for martyrdom, I preferred that it be postponed." - Winston Churchill

"Before I refuse to take your questions, I have an opening statement." - Ronald Reagan

I don't know if I can be of much help here, but I did own this set 10-15 (probably closer to 15) years ago. I make notes now when I discard cds or lps, but then I didn't, and therefore don't recall the details of why I didn't keep them. I do remember that I didn't keep them for long...just a few days, perhaps, so I must not have formed a very positive impression. May I sneak in a recommendation for Jochum's mono set in a DG box, just in case you don't have them? Superb! And in great sound! http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00007 ... -2&seller=

gfweis wrote:I don't know if I can be of much help here, but I did own this set 10-15 (probably closer to 15) years ago. I make notes now when I discard cds or lps, but then I didn't, and therefore don't recall the details of why I didn't keep them. I do remember that I didn't keep them for long...just a few days, perhaps, so I must not have formed a very positive impression. May I sneak in a recommendation for Jochum's mono set in a DG box, just in case you don't have them? Superb! And in great sound! http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00007 ... -2&seller=

Interesting, I never "get rid" of CDs or LPs for that matter either, I'm not a hoarder merely a collector. Thanks for the Jochum nomination. By the way I do not have many Beethoven recordings. I have the Karajan 1962 set, I love it. I have a few CDs of Mackerras with the Royal Liverpool and like them too. The Blomstedt set has been in Tower for some time now. I saw it there again today and that got me thinking that perhaps I might get it.

Seán

"To appreciate the greatness of the Masters is to keep faith in the greatness of humanity." - Wilhelm Furtwängler

Seán wrote:I'm wondering if members are familiar with the Beethoven: Complete Symphonies / Blomstedt, Staatskapelle Dresden recordings and if so would you recommend that I get them? They are available at a very reasonable price in Tower Records in Dublin.

Got the Blomsted set a few months ago. Have listened to Symph. 1-8 but not the Choral (yet).

This is an intellectual interpretation, a bit cold.
I acnowledge its formal correctness, but I do not warm to it.
The contribution of the Dresdener Statskapelle is faultless.

If you want a complete set, you may acquire the complete MacKerras / Liverpool set on EMI Classics For Pleasure. The cost is a steal, and if you like some of it, you will surely like all of it. Do not confuse it with MacKerras´ second set (released by Hyperion) - an uneven live recording from the Edinburgh festival a few years ago.

The Blomstedt/Dresden set is one of the better big band Beethoven cycles I know--impeccable playing, full-bodied sound, yet not mushified through the Romantic wringer but more classical in spirit, if I recall. I seldom listen to it since I prefer the leaner, meaner HIP or HIP-influenced sets. When I got mine from Brilliant Records the cost was ~$20. At that price it's a no brainer.

"Most men, including those at ease with problems of the greatest complexity, can seldom accept even the simplest and most obvious truth if it would oblige them to admit the falsity of conclusions which they have delighted in explaining to colleagues, which they have proudly taught to others, and which they have woven, thread by thread, into the fabric of their lives." ~Leo Tolstoy

"It is the highest form of self-respect to admit our errors and mistakes and make amends for them. To make a mistake is only an error in judgment, but to adhere to it when it is discovered shows infirmity of character." ~Dale Turner

"Anyone who doesn't take truth seriously in small matters cannot be trusted in large ones either." ~Albert Einstein
"Truth is incontrovertible; malice may attack it and ignorance may deride it; but, in the end, there it is." ~Winston Churchill

Sylph wrote:While we're at Beethoven... Could someone recommend a great, powerful, majestic, superb, unleash-the-fury version of the Fifth?

Chicago Symphony/Reiner--who else? You want the Living Stereo issue.

The analog Chicago Symphony/Solti is also outstanding. I haven't heard the digital re-make.

The VPO/C. Kleiber on DG has a reputation going back to its LP days, but the mastering on the DG Originals issue (has there been another) leaves something to be desired.

Boulez recorded the Fifth with the New Philharmonia Orchestra about 35 years ago which has not been issued on CD to my knowledge. A controversial interpretation in its day due to the inclusion of a repeat in the third movement. Boulez was convinced by one of his students that Beethoven inadvertently omitted it. Not a rip-roaring performance, but an interesting one, which I suspect will never again see the light of day.

OK Reiner's pretty damn good, but a little too powerful at times, not to be played too often I think...

The producers have done a pretty good job cleaning up some of the distortion that plagued LP issues, much like Giulini's EMI recording of the Verdi Requiem. A Fifth for the ages.

A bit of crumpled tape noise came up in the fourth movement, but not too much distortion...

As for Guilini, definately a Requiem for the Ages, there is a DVD of it too...

I was listening to Abbado's the other day, that's also excellent, but then so is Reiner...

premont wrote:If you want a complete set, you may acquire the complete MacKerras / Liverpool set on EMI Classics For Pleasure. The cost is a steal, and if you like some of it, you will surely like all of it. Do not confuse it with MacKerras´ second set (released by Hyperion) - an uneven live recording from the Edinburgh festival a few years ago.

I agree about Liverpool being a great bargain, but I think Edinburgh is really good too...I just got his Dvorak Symphonies on Classics for Pleasure...yet more great performances, the man never makes a bad record...buy the CfP Sean...

Hi Sylph, I have mixed views when it to comes to buying a complete symphonic set. On balance I do prefer to buy individual recordings, however, I think that buying a set of recordings of the music of say Alfvén, Balakirev, Glazunov, etc is a very good and inexpensive way to get acquainted with that composer's symphony cycle. The reason why I am tempted to get the Blomstedt set is because it is for sale for less than €20; if there are three or four good interpretations in the set then I'll feel that it's well worth the money. Incidentally, the only Blomstedt recordings in my collection are of Nielsen's music, so I'd like to get more of his work too. That's why I come along here and pester people looking for assistance.

The Reiner/CSO recordings are wonderful, they are well worth having.

Seán

"To appreciate the greatness of the Masters is to keep faith in the greatness of humanity." - Wilhelm Furtwängler

This thread appears to have steered off topic a wee bit. David is right I am looking for the "Big Band" approach to Beethoven. People seem to be, in the main, indifferent to the Blomstedt renditions, am I right?

Seán

"To appreciate the greatness of the Masters is to keep faith in the greatness of humanity." - Wilhelm Furtwängler

Sylph wrote:While we're at Beethoven... Could someone recommend a great, powerful, majestic, superb, unleash-the-fury version of the Fifth?

Apart from Szell/Concertgebouw and Herbie's 1962 take, you could try Peter Eotvos' hyper-exciting reading with the Ensemble Modern on BMC (Budapest Music Centre) CD 063 ; he plays it fast and straight,yet relaxes nicely in the slow movement - curiously, the strings were amplified during the performance, as it's a fairly small orchestra. I hear this as a modern composer's homage to Beethoven (minus pipe and slippers!) Hard to get hold of, but perhaps you might be able to listen to samples

Seán wrote:This thread appears to have steered off topic a wee bit. David is right I am looking for the "Big Band" approach to Beethoven. People seem to be, in the main, indifferent to the Blomstedt renditions, am I right?

Based on an admittedly cursory scanning of this thread, it seems that few who've responded are familiar with the Blomstedt/Dresden cycle, but that doesn't stop most from suggesting their favorites.

For appraisals from critics who at least have heard the set, you might investigate reviews on the web, such as the MusicWeb review here, the Classics Today review here, or the unprofessional reviews at Amazon here and comments at GMG here. I will say that if Herbie the K's approach really floats your boat, you might not appreciate Blomstedt's as much. He's closer to Szell, IMO.

And if you really like the Blomstedt/SFS Nielsen (I do!), then you might also treasure their terrific Sibelius cycle, their Brahms German Requiem, their Mendelssohn symphonies, and their Peer Gynt--all of which are among my faves.

"Most men, including those at ease with problems of the greatest complexity, can seldom accept even the simplest and most obvious truth if it would oblige them to admit the falsity of conclusions which they have delighted in explaining to colleagues, which they have proudly taught to others, and which they have woven, thread by thread, into the fabric of their lives." ~Leo Tolstoy

"It is the highest form of self-respect to admit our errors and mistakes and make amends for them. To make a mistake is only an error in judgment, but to adhere to it when it is discovered shows infirmity of character." ~Dale Turner

"Anyone who doesn't take truth seriously in small matters cannot be trusted in large ones either." ~Albert Einstein
"Truth is incontrovertible; malice may attack it and ignorance may deride it; but, in the end, there it is." ~Winston Churchill

Chalkperson wrote:[I agree about Liverpool being a great bargain, but I think Edinburgh is really good too...I just got his Dvorak Symphonies on Classics for Pleasure...yet more great performances, the man never makes a bad record...buy the CfP Sean...

I did not write, that I think the Hyperion set is bad, but I find it uneven. It contains one of the most exciting recordings of no.3 and no.7, and and one of the most routinier performances of no. 9, I can recall at the moment. The Hyperion set is IMO well worth owning, but compared to the consistently good CfP set, it is too expensive and, - yes uneven.

DavidRoss wrote:
And if you really like the Blomstedt/SFS Nielsen (I do)

IMO Blomstedt´s SFS Nielsen set is admirable and efficient, but also a bit cold.
I much prefer his earlier EMI set -it is warmer, more Danish, if I may say so.

You may be the first person I've met to accuse the Danes of warmth--not that I disagree, just that Scandinavian warmth in general and Danish in particular is expressed so subtly that those equating demonstrativeness with warmth tend unfairly to stereotype Scandinavians as cold.

"Most men, including those at ease with problems of the greatest complexity, can seldom accept even the simplest and most obvious truth if it would oblige them to admit the falsity of conclusions which they have delighted in explaining to colleagues, which they have proudly taught to others, and which they have woven, thread by thread, into the fabric of their lives." ~Leo Tolstoy

"It is the highest form of self-respect to admit our errors and mistakes and make amends for them. To make a mistake is only an error in judgment, but to adhere to it when it is discovered shows infirmity of character." ~Dale Turner

"Anyone who doesn't take truth seriously in small matters cannot be trusted in large ones either." ~Albert Einstein
"Truth is incontrovertible; malice may attack it and ignorance may deride it; but, in the end, there it is." ~Winston Churchill

Seán wrote:This thread appears to have steered off topic a wee bit. David is right I am looking for the "Big Band" approach to Beethoven. People seem to be, in the main, indifferent to the Blomstedt renditions, am I right?

I've only heard the Ninth, which I enjoyed. Blomstedt is a conductor who wears very well over the long haul. I'd buy this set if it were inexpensive (it's really hard to justify paying top dollar--or Euro--when I already have about 20 cycles). I believe this set is included in the Brilliant Classics Beethoven Edition. There is an special pressing of this set which includes 15 CDs of historical performances in addition to the 85 CDs included in the set, all for about 56 Euros + shipping from Amazon.fr.

CharmNewton wrote:[
I believe this set is included in the Brilliant Classics Beethoven Edition. There is an special pressing of this set which includes 15 CDs of historical performances in addition to the 85 CDs included in the set, all for about 56 Euros + shipping from Amazon.fr.
John

No, the Symphony set in the Brilliant complete LvB 100 CD box is the recording by Leipzig Gewandhausorch. / Masur.

The Blomstedt Symphony set is part of the Brilliant 40 CDs LvB masterworks box.

Last edited by premont on Mon Feb 16, 2009 3:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.

DavidRoss wrote:
You may be the first person I've met to accuse the Danes of warmth--not that I disagree, just that Scandinavian warmth in general and Danish in particular is expressed so subtly that those equating demonstrativeness with warmth tend unfairly to stereotype Scandinavians as cold.

I am unfamiliar with the Blomstedt/Staatskapelle-Dresden set you mention. I no longer collect "complete" sets since I have so many. My "reference recording" of a complete set is by von Karajan on DGG in the 1962 set you refer to. While I am not a total von Karajan fan, I think that is among the finest traversals of complete sets on the market - and you have it! If you are looking for another complete set, I would recommend the one conducted by André Cluytens and the Berlin Philharmonic. Here, you have a Belgian/French-trained conductor who was also steeped in the musical traditions of Austria and Germany. His complete set of Beethoven symphonies was recorded (in stereo) between 1957 and 1960 and released on EMI. It holds up very well, indeed. Cluytens isn't given a lot of hype these days, but I thought his performances to be quite revealing with the Berlin Philharmonic (a good comparison with von Karajan and the Berlin!). Outstanding sound. The set has been reissued on the DISKY label [703732] and is available for a song! I was lucky to find all of Cluytens' Beethoven symphonies issued in the USA on the budget-priced Seraphim label, which is now out of print. Honestly, there are so many complete sets that it's very difficult to focus one specific issues. Everyone has their own individual tastes. Naturally, you will probably want to supplement complete sets with individual recordings of each symphony. It can get out of hand very quickly - and expensively!

Seán wrote:I'm wondering if members are familiar with the Beethoven: Complete Symphonies / Blomstedt, Staatskapelle Dresden recordings and if so would you recommend that I get them? They are available at a very reasonable price in Tower Records in Dublin.

Seán wrote:This thread appears to have steered off topic a wee bit. David is right I am looking for the "Big Band" approach to Beethoven. People seem to be, in the main, indifferent to the Blomstedt renditions, am I right?

Based on an admittedly cursory scanning of this thread, it seems that few who've responded are familiar with the Blomstedt/Dresden cycle, but that doesn't stop most from suggesting their favorites.

For appraisals from critics who at least have heard the set, you might investigate reviews on the web, such as the MusicWeb review here, the Classics Today review here, or the unprofessional reviews at Amazon here and comments at GMG here. I will say that if Herbie the K's approach really floats your boat, you might not appreciate Blomstedt's as much. He's closer to Szell, IMO.

As one of the GMG members said, "given the price, it's a no-brainer", so good, I'll get it. Thanks David.

DavidRoss wrote:
And if you really like the Blomstedt/SFS Nielsen (I do!), then you might also treasure their terrific Sibelius cycle, their Brahms German Requiem, their Mendelssohn symphonies, and their Peer Gynt--all of which are among my faves.

I love the Blomstedt/SFSO recordings, I prefer them to the earlier Blomstedt/DRSO versions. The Blomstedt Sibelius is on my shopping list. I didn't realise that they had recorded Mendelssohn symphonies and Peer Gynt too.

Last edited by Seán on Mon Feb 16, 2009 4:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Seán

"To appreciate the greatness of the Masters is to keep faith in the greatness of humanity." - Wilhelm Furtwängler

The Klemperer/EMI box set is available very inexpensively. And also includes the piano concertos with Barenboim which are superb. I don't particularly know how it compares with earlier mono recordings or if it is the earlier mono recording, but nothing sounds like the Philharmonia Orchestra under Klemperer. They cook. The only caveat is that the 9th is the worst of the seven renditions I have.

As far as a passionate 5th, try the recent Rattle/BPO. If nothing else it is wild. The piccolo goes absolutely nuts in the final movement.

premont wrote:No, the Symphony set in the Brilliant complete LvB 100 CD box is the recording by Leipzig Gewandhausorch. / Masur.

THAT SET...

They released it as SACD'S in the early days...how ever did he get the NYPO Job...

Talent, I expect.

I have the later Gewandhausorchester/Masur set, and I like it very well. In principle, enjoying Blomstedt's work to the extent that I do, I'd be most interested in listening to a Beethoven Symphony set of his; I expect it to be well worth the listening to. I like this box of Masur very nicely, and more than one Beethoven symphony set is a low, low priority for me.

I have the later Gewandhausorchester/Masur set, and I like it very well. In principle, enjoying Blomstedt's work to the extent that I do, I'd be most interested in listening to a Beethoven Symphony set of his; I expect it to be well worth the listening to. I like this box of Masur very nicely, and more than one Beethoven symphony set is a low, low priority for me.

Cheers,
~Karl

I have to say that no matter how hard I try I find his recordings to be, well, just like those by Maxim Shostakovich...the only Masur recording that I do like is ironically enough Shosty's 7th Live in Paris on Naive...otherwise I just find him dull, I picked up a five disc Liszt Budget Set on Decca last week (Recommended by Stenka, 5CD's for 12 bucks at J+R) and it has his Hungarian Rhapsodies on it, I made myself listen to it all the way through, well, until I fell asleep that is...