I don't mind the occasional patchwerk style fight, but they get boreing fast. Raiding shouldn't be 'easy' it shouldn't be 'I'll just chill and relax while doing this.' It should be challenging, it should force you to pay attention, even in lfr. straight up gear checks, at least in normal modes, are rather annoying.

"If you have to believe it on faith, you have no reason to believe it at all.” Aron Ra

I was talking more about them making it now so everyone has a responsibility.

You mean like the 40 man raids of old where 10 people sat around AFK waiting for the boss to die?

“Do not lose time on daily trivialities. Do not dwell on petty detail. For all of these things melt away and drift apart within the obscure traffic of time. Live well and live broadly. You are alive and living now. Now is the envy of all of the dead.” ~ Emily3, World of Tomorrow

DPS check bosses are fun until you outgear them, then they're terribly boring. Good mechanic bosses typically mean that gear has a "little" less value (ie, you can still screw up and cause a wipe), so they seem to be a bit better.

If there was a way for the game to scale dps bosses, that might be interesting.

Beautiful veins and bloodshot eyes.
"If you are not capable of cruelty, you are absolutely a victim to anyone who is" - J. Peterson

I see it as a Chaotic vs Lawful thing. It's also about depth and execution.

Back in Classic, bosses didn't have too many mechanics, they were usually just hard because you had so many people, it was in the early days, and it was over-tuned to make up for the fact that it was relative simple. Now, with each expansion, boss fights have begun to involve more and more mechanics. But when you add more mechanics, it becomes more about execution and less about depth. Mechanics shrinks the space you have to do stuff freely, to do stuff as you want, you have a set of mechanics that makes for a very tight strategy that you have to execute. There's more order, and less chaos.
In Classic WoW and say, Guild Wars 2, stuff doesn't have too many mechanics, so stuff is pretty free and chaotic. Now, one might prefer execution and lawfulness over "depth" and chaos, and so on and so forth. But point is, more mechanics doesn't equal better all the time.

One thing I don't like about the newer bosses is how most of them have multiple phases that are basically completely different fights that you are forced to do back to back with no break. Why not just make them separate boss encounters?

Yes stuff like this! Anyhow bosses are way over complicated now... I recently put in hours of work on Horridon. The sheer amount of stuff I need to do as a ret paladin is ridiculous. In need to stun, interrupt,fear, Burst down certain adds, keep up my rotation, and dodge at least 5-6 different things...this is only the 2nd boss.

i like bosses like iron qon,
basically he has 4 phases, certain types of abilities will be present in each phase (his spear), but the effect it gives changes with the phase (fire/lighting/ice lines).
beside that it also has 1-2 abilities unique too that phase with which you have too deal properly with.
while its a massive amount of different things too keep in mind, the excution is quite simple and very enjoyable.

I see it as a Chaotic vs Lawful thing. It's also about depth and execution.

Back in Classic, bosses didn't have too many mechanics, they were usually just hard because you had so many people, it was in the early days, and it was over-tuned to make up for the fact that it was relative simple. Now, with each expansion, boss fights have begun to involve more and more mechanics. But when you add more mechanics, it becomes more about execution and less about depth. Mechanics shrinks the space you have to do stuff freely, to do stuff as you want, you have a set of mechanics that makes for a very tight strategy that you have to execute. There's more order, and less chaos.
In Classic WoW and say, Guild Wars 2, stuff doesn't have too many mechanics, so stuff is pretty free and chaotic. Now, one might prefer execution and lawfulness over "depth" and chaos, and so on and so forth. But point is, more mechanics doesn't equal better all the time.

What about 'simple' fights makes them 'chaotic' and gives them 'depth?'

Last edited by Florena Emberlin; 2013-03-17 at 03:21 AM.

"If you have to believe it on faith, you have no reason to believe it at all.” Aron Ra

I wish there were more Patchwerk fights, at least one per tier.
Different mechanics are nice, but sometimes shit get way too loaded, with a billion and a half things happening at the same time, with bosses running around the whole room (the troll council in this tier is an example) and you still have to manage moving, watching the GCD and the rest of the cooldowns.
Sometimes it fun to just leave the WASD alone and burst your brains out.

I mean, look at Durumu from ToT and tell me this shit isn't bloated as hell. I can't even fit half the skills in my 23 inch display.

I wish there were more Patchwerk fights, at least one per tier.
Different mechanics are nice, but sometimes shit get way too loaded, with a billion and a half things happening at the same time, with bosses running around the whole room (the troll council in this tier is an example) and you still have to manage moving, watching the GCD and the rest of the cooldowns.
Sometimes it fun to just leave the WASD alone and burst your brains out.

I mean, look at Durumu from ToT and tell me this shit isn't bloated as hell. I can't even fit half the skills in my 23 inch display.

Yeah - good luck taking the hour in vent to explain all that to any fresh faces in your raid.

Thing is with mechanic heavy fights, is it makes it extremely difficult to have someone fill a slot in the event someone can't make it. A few of the fights in Cata are prime examples. Where the guild would rather cancel the raid for the night rather than trying to bring someone fresh in to explain and learn all the mechanics of a mechanic-heavy fight.

What I hate the most are the fight with lots of adds and council type fights. Unfortunatelly 2 of them are the first bosses in new raid. I did beat them pre nerf, but still think they suck, and I would gladly skip those if I didnt need loot. ( prefer much more to have phase type bosses, with his abilieties changing over time, like Feng in T14 for example)
There should be patchwerk fight with tight dps check somewhere in the middle of evey raid tier imo, many people enjoy them.

dps check fights are fine so long as they're not brick walls(ie you can't progress at all in the dungeon unless you can kill them), and it is ok that you have to wait a few weeks to down them. They belong on the end of a wing in a nonlinear raid.

I do think the amount of mechanics has become too much. Normal mode fights now feel like they are more complex than heroic fights in the past tiers. And current normals feel as punishing as heroics were rather than similar difficulty to previous normals.

I personally hate it. Every fight feels like a fucking kiddy game of wack a mole. Give us adds to cc and aoe down, give us stacking and spreading mechanics, give us the occasional movement fight, but don't make every fight a hectic shuffle to avoid one of the20 fucking mechanics per fight. I think firelands was an absolutely perfect display of less is more, creative and fun mechanics rather than a fucking overload of stupid mechanics. It started to get bad in soo for me but wod has been unbearable for me