Same sex couple ttc - real issue, no joke

From:
MichelleAnugrah

To: ContinuallyChad

Posted: Sep-21 03:24 AM (22 of 46)

That's one of the option the lawyer told us. Get them to move to OZ first after the baby's born, get married there and then arrange for a private adoption. However, one regulation that we still need to clarify is whether the terms "adoptive parent" in our adoption regulation can cover same sex parents (again, same sex marriage is a crime in Indonesia). The lawyer said she could just go ahead and do the adoption paper and find a friendly judge to approve it. But it is still a very long shot. If it fails, we ended up being a legal parent of somebody else's child. To push forward with having this child moved to OZ with her mother would constitute a kidnapping.

Another option is to have the mother marry some guy in a 'contractual' marriage, have the child registered after his name, and get a divorce one year after that, giving sole custody to the mother. The drawback here is to find the guy. We are actually canvassing for a non-Catholic man we know who's willing to do this (Catholics can't get a divorce here, and if they do, it's only legal divorce, not church, and both can't get their subsequent marriage registered in church afterwards. We still have to get married according to our religion before we can register our marriage to the state. Extremely backward!). Plus, there has to be a great financial incentive for the man not to raise a problem afterwards.

One last option that none of us really like is to have the mother marry her uncle (by marriage, not biological) as a second wife, then get a divorce afterwards. His religion allows him to have more than one wife with consent from his first wife (her biological aunt). But that's really, really last resort (only if we decided not to sign the birth certificate). Plus, they are rather hesistant in asking him to do this as he doesn't really approve them.

We can't get the biological father to do this as she did it through a sperm bank in Thailand. I actually suggest her to ask one of her gay male friends for this. I hope one of them would be willing to help. It's mutually beneficial for both.

Anyway, my wife and I have reached an agreement to give our consent and do this only if other efforts fail. We still have three months to look for a 'prospective' father. I'm hoping some good hearted friends of us showed up and help these ladies. I'm so glad they understand our situation and don't push the issue. As I understand, they are also trying to find ways to get the birth certificate, legally or by proxy.

That's one of the option the lawyer told us. Get them to move to OZ first after the baby's born, get married there and then arrange for a private adoption. However, one regulation that we still need to clarify is whether the terms "adoptive parent" in our adoption regulation can cover same sex parents (again, same sex marriage is a crime in Indonesia). The lawyer said she could just go ahead and do the adoption paper and find a friendly judge to approve it. But it is still a very long shot. If it fails, we ended up being a legal parent of somebody else's child. To push forward with having this child moved to OZ with her mother would constitute a kidnapping.

Another option is to have the mother marry some guy in a 'contractual' marriage, have the child registered after his name, and get a divorce one year after that, giving sole custody to the mother. The drawback here is to find the guy. We are actually canvassing for a non-Catholic man we know who's willing to do this (Catholics can't get a divorce here, and if they do, it's only legal divorce, not church, and both can't get their subsequent marriage registered in church afterwards. We still have to get married according to our religion before we can register our marriage to the state. Extremely backward!). Plus, there has to be a great financial incentive for the man not to raise a problem afterwards.

One last option that none of us really like is to have the mother marry her uncle (by marriage, not biological) as a second wife, then get a divorce afterwards. His religion allows him to have more than one wife with consent from his first wife (her biological aunt). But that's really, really last resort (only if we decided not to sign the birth certificate). Plus, they are rather hesistant in asking him to do this as he doesn't really approve them.

We can't get the biological father to do this as she did it through a sperm bank in Thailand. I actually suggest her to ask one of her gay male friends for this. I hope one of them would be willing to help. It's mutually beneficial for both.

Anyway, my wife and I have reached an agreement to give our consent and do this only if other efforts fail. We still have three months to look for a 'prospective' father. I'm hoping some good hearted friends of us showed up and help these ladies. I'm so glad they understand our situation and don't push the issue. As I understand, they are also trying to find ways to get the birth certificate, legally or by proxy.

Hi MichelleAnu: I like the gay friend idea; that's ideal! The uncle marriage is bad, a really bad idea, I may be wrong but he sounds like he practices Islam and is a Muslim. As a Muslim myself I would not advise that she even goes that route. I live in the U.S.A now, my husband and I are Muslim, although we are very liberal in our ideas of co-existence; many Muslims from back home ( my parents birth country ) are not, and homosexuality is considered criminal and punishable by death (which in my opinion is such a barbaric way of thinking). If you are not Muslim please don't think all Muslims are crazy, there are many people back home who are mean spirited, evil and use Islam as a source to practice these cruel behaviors. I do wish the best to your family and friends.Do keep me updated, I would like to hear good news!!Sincerely,Layaansajid

Hi MichelleAnu: I like the gay friend idea; that's ideal! The uncle marriage is bad, a really bad idea, I may be wrong but he sounds like he practices Islam and is a Muslim. As a Muslim myself I would not advise that she even goes that route. I live in the U.S.A now, my husband and I are Muslim, although we are very liberal in our ideas of co-existence; many Muslims from back home ( my parents birth country ) are not, and homosexuality is considered criminal and punishable by death (which in my opinion is such a barbaric way of thinking). If you are not Muslim please don't think all Muslims are crazy, there are many people back home who are mean spirited, evil and use Islam as a source to practice these cruel behaviors. I do wish the best to your family and friends.Do keep me updated, I would like to hear good news!!Sincerely,Layaansajid

I don't have any advice for you unfortunately but please keep us updated. My heart goes out to your family and your friends. I don't know what religion you are but I am praying for you and them. In the Christian religion being gay is a sin but not an unforgivable one and I believe every one has the right to be happy especially a innocent child . Good luck

I don't have any advice for you unfortunately but please keep us updated. My heart goes out to your family and your friends. I don't know what religion you are but I am praying for you and them. In the Christian religion being gay is a sin but not an unforgivable one and I believe every one has the right to be happy especially a innocent child . Good luck

Hey man I don't know you and I barely know your situation but as a Man of God I immediately say do it and here's why. LOVE God commands us and gives us the freedom to love, it doesn't matter if they are or aren't homosexual they are people and there is a little life that's about to be brought into this cruel world a child of God. Do that child a favor and love her by giving her a fighting chance. If it was me I'd be the very first one at the hospital or home to sign those papers and I'd do it with LOVE. I know this is hard to decide but God is big enough to handle all the responsibilities you'd face with that child. Consider this a privilege to help those brothers and sisters in God who are the least of us. I'm praying that God will help you make the right decision and whether you believe in God or not it still is the RIGHT thing to do. God bless you

Hey man I don't know you and I barely know your situation but as a Man of God I immediately say do it and here's why. LOVE God commands us and gives us the freedom to love, it doesn't matter if they are or aren't homosexual they are people and there is a little life that's about to be brought into this cruel world a child of God. Do that child a favor and love her by giving her a fighting chance. If it was me I'd be the very first one at the hospital or home to sign those papers and I'd do it with LOVE. I know this is hard to decide but God is big enough to handle all the responsibilities you'd face with that child. Consider this a privilege to help those brothers and sisters in God who are the least of us. I'm praying that God will help you make the right decision and whether you believe in God or not it still is the RIGHT thing to do. God bless you

So, we will still sign the birth certificate, but my wife's other best friend, a gay male, is willing to marry the mother and establish a legal marriage, so we can arrange a private adoption with them. It's rather too late to arrange a proper church marriage at this time of the day, as they have to wait for at least three months for church preparation. He only wants to have the marriage last for at least two years, and the mother poses as his wife during the two years marriage. He's currently living in Australia, although a citizen to our country and he's financially sound. He wants the mother to go back home when necessary (for family stuff) and he will have a cover of having a wife, and after the divorce, he can pretend he's too broken hearted to have another wife (brilliant idea, isn't it?). Plus, he wants to have visitation rights to the child with mutual consent, so the child will have a father figure as well. The women will be living in the same town with the man, afterall. The only problem we see is if the man's family raise a ruckuss over the divorce, but that's a problem in the future and we'll deal with that if it happens.

We are in the process of arranging a legal agreement for the adoption and the pre-nup for the marriage. The baby is due on December/January and the wedding will be done early February.

Isn't that amazing that the people willing to help are often people shunned by the society?

Do you think they will consent having their daughter named Leia Amidala? *grin

Thanks for all of your inputs and thoughts and prayers! They are all really helping! Plus, I'm relieved that the kid will be living in a more open society that where we are now!

We had a good news from my lawyer!

So, we will still sign the birth certificate, but my wife's other best friend, a gay male, is willing to marry the mother and establish a legal marriage, so we can arrange a private adoption with them. It's rather too late to arrange a proper church marriage at this time of the day, as they have to wait for at least three months for church preparation. He only wants to have the marriage last for at least two years, and the mother poses as his wife during the two years marriage. He's currently living in Australia, although a citizen to our country and he's financially sound. He wants the mother to go back home when necessary (for family stuff) and he will have a cover of having a wife, and after the divorce, he can pretend he's too broken hearted to have another wife (brilliant idea, isn't it?). Plus, he wants to have visitation rights to the child with mutual consent, so the child will have a father figure as well. The women will be living in the same town with the man, afterall. The only problem we see is if the man's family raise a ruckuss over the divorce, but that's a problem in the future and we'll deal with that if it happens.

We are in the process of arranging a legal agreement for the adoption and the pre-nup for the marriage. The baby is due on December/January and the wedding will be done early February.

Isn't that amazing that the people willing to help are often people shunned by the society?

Do you think they will consent having their daughter named Leia Amidala? *grin

Thanks for all of your inputs and thoughts and prayers! They are all really helping! Plus, I'm relieved that the kid will be living in a more open society that where we are now!

Y'all don't have a friend that will marry one one of them and then one of them would be on the birth certificate. Or when you do this and they move , can you adopt this child to them legally when they are in Austrailia

Y'all don't have a friend that will marry one one of them and then one of them would be on the birth certificate. Or when you do this and they move , can you adopt this child to them legally when they are in Austrailia

Or a family member of the one not pregnant ( a single male) do they have someone like that in the family that would marry the pregnant one. That seems like it would have less legal issues and make it easier to move with the baby later. Idk. But if you can't find another solution to protect this lil girl I can understand wanting to do it. You are just taking on the legal responsibilities of another child and maybe you can adopt her to her rightful parents after they move. ASAP

Or a family member of the one not pregnant ( a single male) do they have someone like that in the family that would marry the pregnant one. That seems like it would have less legal issues and make it easier to move with the baby later. Idk. But if you can't find another solution to protect this lil girl I can understand wanting to do it. You are just taking on the legal responsibilities of another child and maybe you can adopt her to her rightful parents after they move. ASAP

Sorry didn't see that last post/update. That is great y'all have came I a solution and even better there are so many people willing to help others. God Bless:) Good Luck. And tell Moms congratulations!

Sorry didn't see that last post/update. That is great y'all have came I a solution and even better there are so many people willing to help others. God Bless:) Good Luck. And tell Moms congratulations!

I'm having the same thought as Lauren. This obviously took some time and planning on their part, did they have someone else who backed out or did they just assume you would do it? It just seems like they're not telling you a big piece of the puzzle to me.

I'm having the same thought as Lauren. This obviously took some time and planning on their part, did they have someone else who backed out or did they just assume you would do it? It just seems like they're not telling you a big piece of the puzzle to me.

I didn't read all the posts so I don't know if someone already suggested this: can you have the kid under your name and then have them adopt her? I don't know the laws from your country and I don't even know if this is a possibility, but this solution came to my mind as I read some of the posts.

I didn't read all the posts so I don't know if someone already suggested this: can you have the kid under your name and then have them adopt her? I don't know the laws from your country and I don't even know if this is a possibility, but this solution came to my mind as I read some of the posts.

As I replied to Chad, they had full backing from my wife. It's just that my wife, although brilliant in many aspects, is not really savvy in terms of legal documents (and tax, and banking, and travel arrangement, to name a few). Both women were also not informed about this birth certificate issues. The three of them plotted this and somehow my wife didn't tell me about this until it was too late for me to say No immediately. That's why I was a bit pissed off with the way I was put in the corner. But anyway, it turned out to be workable and I'm glad that we have taken some steps towards protecting this baby girl. At least now I have another daughter without having to have anything to do with the pregnancy drama, or paying the hospital and caretaking bill.

As I replied to Chad, they had full backing from my wife. It's just that my wife, although brilliant in many aspects, is not really savvy in terms of legal documents (and tax, and banking, and travel arrangement, to name a few). Both women were also not informed about this birth certificate issues. The three of them plotted this and somehow my wife didn't tell me about this until it was too late for me to say No immediately. That's why I was a bit pissed off with the way I was put in the corner. But anyway, it turned out to be workable and I'm glad that we have taken some steps towards protecting this baby girl. At least now I have another daughter without having to have anything to do with the pregnancy drama, or paying the hospital and caretaking bill.

Ok, I understand now. They just left you out of the loop, assuming your answer would be yes. A bit presumptuous, but her heart was in the right place. I'm glad it worked out for you, you're doing an amazing thing for your friends. I sure hope they appreciate you two!

Ok, I understand now. They just left you out of the loop, assuming your answer would be yes. A bit presumptuous, but her heart was in the right place. I'm glad it worked out for you, you're doing an amazing thing for your friends. I sure hope they appreciate you two!

If they are lesbians, how did they conceive? Knowing the law and how their country operates, it was kinda irresponsible to try and get pregnant before they were able to leave the country and they are now putting you in an awkward position. I have nothing against same sex relationship and I'm not trying to be mean but I guess I don't understand how they got into this situation to begin with. It's not like its normal for a lesbian woman to accidentally become pregnant or anything... I guess a solution to all this could be to go through with it and have your friends adopt their baby so they would now be legally responsible.

If they are lesbians, how did they conceive? Knowing the law and how their country operates, it was kinda irresponsible to try and get pregnant before they were able to leave the country and they are now putting you in an awkward position. I have nothing against same sex relationship and I'm not trying to be mean but I guess I don't understand how they got into this situation to begin with. It's not like its normal for a lesbian woman to accidentally become pregnant or anything... I guess a solution to all this could be to go through with it and have your friends adopt their baby so they would now be legally responsible.

I would do it. I believe everyone deserves to be with their loved ones. I would want to feel as if I was the second choice patents for this baby though, like godparents. So if anything happened to the ladies without question the baby would be in your custody. Find what your comfortable with :)

I would do it. I believe everyone deserves to be with their loved ones. I would want to feel as if I was the second choice patents for this baby though, like godparents. So if anything happened to the ladies without question the baby would be in your custody. Find what your comfortable with :)

What I don't understand, is if they knew there were such implications for their child, why did they choose to have one of them impregnated while still in the country, or was it a threesome that took place and it was an accident? If they were specifically trying to have a child, they should have thought about all this. If it was an accident why didn't they leave this country sooner? So many questions, but ultimately it will be up to you to decide what you are comfortable with.

What I don't understand, is if they knew there were such implications for their child, why did they choose to have one of them impregnated while still in the country, or was it a threesome that took place and it was an accident? If they were specifically trying to have a child, they should have thought about all this. If it was an accident why didn't they leave this country sooner? So many questions, but ultimately it will be up to you to decide what you are comfortable with.

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