sonex wrote:I take it you are a Havenite? Just finished the latest major Honor Book.

Another Harrington

Oh, sweetie. I'm not just a Havenite. I am, hands down, the most notorious Havenite fangirl on this entire board, bar none. And believe you me, I've had some competition. Whom I beat when RFC Himself started cracking wise about it.

Welcome aboard! Have a virtual stein of Old Tilman, on us.

~*~

I serve at the pleasure of President Pritchart.

Javier & Eloise"You'll remember me when the west wind moves upon the fields of barley..."

(Btw., can anyone tell me which political party MWW supports? I find it kinda strange that the virtual re-incarnation of Hitler in his novel series shares a name with a certain US president... )

I think my favorite was the base ball pitcher who got the surprise hit to spark the winning from behind rally... I would have to go back and find it but it translated as John Smoltz who was not known for his batting average in our universe Win–loss record 213–155Earned run average 3.33Strikeouts 3,084Saves 154

clancy688 wrote:I was wondering if there's a list of "translated" names somewhere.

Some are more or less easily translatable (Like Zhaspahr Clyntahn -> Casper Clinton?), but not all (the hell did 'Ahrmahk' evolve from? ).

I'm late to this topic and since it's drifted right off topic, I'll reply to this first post.

I have difficulties with Weber's names in the Safehold series, and not just because they're reworked and respelled common names. Given that many names (and words generally) have spellings which don't reflect their pronunciation, I find it most odd that a name like Robair would appear given that that's a French pronunciation and all the first settlers spoke "Standard English". The name Cecil is pronounced "sessil" in British and Oz English, and anyone who comes out with the American "seesil" would get strange looks. A thousand years on, why would spellings of names change radically when they managed to remain spelled much the same ways for centuries on "Old Earth", whether or not spelling reflected actual pronunciation? I don't buy the notion that English would remain much the same for 9 centuries (except for the rather odd changes in spellings of names) yet distinct accents arise. Fitting that in with the apparently large number of Asian settlers (given obviously Japanese and Chinese people and place names) is just a bit difficult, and given the large proportion of Asians in the Harchong Empire and its very different social system, I can't see why separate languages or at least mutually unintelligible dialects would not arise over that time period.

I believe RFC stated that English was the language Bedard left in the colonist's memories. All others were suppressed. There are also artifacts from the archangels, like the map of Safehold in the Temple and the Writ itself, which constantly remind them that language too was a gift from God.

The wired pronunciation as captured in his spelling reflects the drift. Recall the spelling on Safehold hasn't changed, only in the books to highlight the pronounciation drift.

Peter, accents arise in large part due to contact with other languages. German English speakers often can't pronounce a 'th' in large part because they don't have that sound any more. Hibernian and Scots English have their distinctive character in large part due their contact with Gaeilge and Gaelic respectively. Australian and NZ Englishes are different in part due to the latter's contact with Maori. So given that there are "accents" on Safehold, how would they develop if everyone initially spoke the same language? Isolation will induce some change, but not much. Also, if accents differ across Safehold, how is it that names are pronounced the same across the planet? There are Zion Robairs and Charisian Robairs. To me the "spellings to reflect pronunciation" are an unnecessary complication.

I believe RFC has come to agree with you that his spelling of names was unnecessary.Safehold 's colonists were not all native English speakers. I recall mention that the Chinese wanted to retain some of their unique qualities when their memories were suppressed. So, even though everyone spoke English, they spoke it differently from the beginning. Notice how nations' "ethnicities" on Safehold developed along linguistic lines. Dohlar had their Spanish influence and Harchong their Chinese influence.

I think pronunciation was the most distinct difference between people from the Day of Creation. I am guessing Safeholdians see the language as a Divine gift to mankind and how language is expressed as a personal gift/freedom from God.

MikeT... I see the spelling on the names to be an infusion of the alien into the human character...A hand full of 'Y'

MikeT wrote:

clancy688 wrote:I was wondering if there's a list of "translated" names somewhere.

Some are more or less easily translatable (Like Zhaspahr Clyntahn -> Casper Clinton?), but not all (the hell did 'Ahrmahk' evolve from? ).

I'm late to this topic and since it's drifted right off topic, I'll reply to this first post.

I have difficulties with Weber's names in the Safehold series, and not just because they're reworked and respelled common names. Given that many names (and words generally) have spellings which don't reflect their pronunciation, I find it most odd that a name like Robair would appear given that that's a French pronunciation and all the first settlers spoke "Standard English". The name Cecil is pronounced "sessil" in British and Oz English, and anyone who comes out with the American "seesil" would get strange looks. A thousand years on, why would spellings of names change radically when they managed to remain spelled much the same ways for centuries on "Old Earth", whether or not spelling reflected actual pronunciation? I don't buy the notion that English would remain much the same for 9 centuries (except for the rather odd changes in spellings of names) yet distinct accents arise. Fitting that in with the apparently large number of Asian settlers (given obviously Japanese and Chinese people and place names) is just a bit difficult, and given the large proportion of Asians in the Harchong Empire and its very different social system, I can't see why separate languages or at least mutually unintelligible dialects would not arise over that time period.