I need a little direction here! I am hoping one of you can give me a bit of advise!

I have been taking either Fentanyl or PMS Morephine(MS Contin) and Oxycodone on top of it all for the last 7 years.

I was taking 190mg a day altogether...

I was injured at work and herniated 5 discs in my back...and being from Canada none of the doctors here would touch me!

So I stumbled across a website for surgeries outside of Canada and applied...it's not like any of the 9 surgeons here would touch me...literally the last one said not with a ten foot pole! Nice!

Anyway...we mortgaged the house to the hilt, travelled to India and did the surgery. It worked...I am having to re-train my back muscles to carry me properly (lots of muscle pain but bearable) again but I am mobile and getting slowly better. I have to behave for the next three months until the sutures in my back heal completely...but I will get there...after waiting 7 years I can wait three months right!? lol

My major problem is the Oxycodone...when I was admitted to the hospital in India (they despise analgesics FYI) my meds were taken away that night. Technically they were just in a drawer at the end of the bed...but it is the honor system...so you don't touch them!

I had three of the most miserable days of my life...I didn't eat or drink for three days, vomitting and diarreah...even the smell of the blankets, pillow...my own hair made me sick! Really fun!

The ansthesiologist came in the night before the surgery and found little old me twitching like Rainman and pale as a ghost! He was pretty mad and started yelling down the hall and the "sisters" came running in grabbing log books and things and running back out! lol Within half and hour they had meds for me...unfortunately instead of giving me enough to stop the worst of the symptoms...they dosed me back up to the top...maximum dose! I felt great within a few minutes...finally got something to eat...this being a sandwich and a cup of tea...before I got put to bed for the night.

They did the surgery the next day...and to my infinite regret...they imbedded a morphine drip before they closed up...so it took two days to convince them to remove that...and even before I could start to eat soft food (keep in mind the 12" incision on my spine!) I went into withdrawl again...this time 3 days into the withdrawl it was even worse than the first time...no eating or drinking, at one point I started to seize..my body arched off the bed...I remember the beginning of a horrible pain...(the rest I get from my husband)..I started to call out, my eyes rolled up in my head and I was out for the better part of 30 minutes! At this point my hubby got REALLY mad and called the doctor who told him I would just have to "suck it up and get through it". Hubby gave up and slipped me one of my 5mg tabs...just one. Within 30 minutes the posturing and twitching had stopped, no more seizing and the day to day smells weren't turning my stomach!

We returned from India on Monday the 10th of August...we told our family doctor about weaning and he agreed...we decided to continue just the 5mg tabs for at least a week to give me time to heal. Last week I dropped it down to 2.5mg and today I decided to just stop...

I am still twitching like crazy...does this ever end?

I can't yet walk any distance, my hubby still has to supervise showers and I cannot bend at the waist at all...so relief is next to none right now!

How far do I have to go to wean off this irritating drug???

I admit I had unrealistic visions of having the surgery tossing my meds (quite dramatically at my doc) and walking away...that didn't last very long...I am miserable...

Mostly it is the sleeping...which I don't...I have telegraphing nerve pain from the regenerating nerves(bearable) and incision pain(not too bad), compared to the pain I had before the surgery it is manageable...I just need to get rid of these meds for once and all! But I just seem to cause myself more pain! I seriously doubt my family doctor is going to renew my prescrition again...so this might be interesting!

Its not whining at all. There is nothing else like withdrawals mate. I am on Oxy and MScontin as well. usually you are over the worst and feel better after 4 or 5 days, but you may have trouble sleeping and other symptoms for a little while yet but it WILL pass.

thosw docs are Idiots! they should have weened you slowly! Ive done cold turkey before through having no choice. I wont give you a long post about all this, go look in the forums at drugs.com - they have alot of info and ways to lessen the symptoms and other stuff you might find useful to get you through this. If you have come this far, it wont be long till you feel better, but you should find a sympathetic doctor and get them to wean you off it.

Withdrawl once would have been hell...twice was torture...three times...<shaking head>

The one really miserable thing being post-op is the hyper activity...Oxycodone has never "calmed" me...maybe because I have a hyperactive personality...whenever I took it...it would make me"zippy"...I would do stuff that the pain told me I couldn't...it was supposed to be for b/t pain...but two 5mg tabs...seriously! If the 60mg tabs aren't controlling the pain, two 5 mg tabs aren't going to fix anything! lol

I would take them when I wanted to do something stupid...like mow the lawn for instance...the Oxy would ramp me up and I could plow through the pain...I paid for it dearly when I finally stopped or the meds wore off though...

I am finding that with the withdrawl I am VERY hyper...I want to ditch the pills desperately...but soon into withdrawl I am twitching and twisting and I always end up hurting myself because I can't stay still...

It took a bit of soul searching before I could get over the fact I wasn't invincible...lol just human me! lol

Still feel like an ass for not trying to kick this sooner and letting the docs just keep prescribing this crap to me...hind sight is a beautiful thing! lol

Thanks for the tips about drugs.com...I will check it out...I have to find a better way to fix this...

I finally feel so much better for the first time in years...and now the meds are making me sick...talk about a reversal!

All I can say is WOW what an ordeal to go through!!!!!! No wonder we are having a hard time with a doctor that came from India. My husband ended up seeing one when our regular PCP was on vacation and he refused to fill his pain meds and changed up his other meds.

I'm so sorry you had to go through the miserable hell that they put upon you

It's funny...I waited 7 years for a surgeon to decide to take a chance and do my surgery...They told me everything from "sorry you're too young to paralyze." To "you only stand a 60% chance of coming through a surgery whole...we won't operate until the numbers are more like 85%, come back when you are in a wheelchair or can't take the pain anymore."Honestly the surgery was amazing...I was up walking the day afterwards...upright and straight...it was so amazing! I was over the moon! And now I have the reality of the meds to deal with! It would have been really great if the Eastern and Western medical communities could work together! It would have been nice to do the surgery and be weaned...THAT would have been nicer!

My original doctor was from India and he was the same way with meds...he even refused to admit I had herniated discs...he kept calling it a pulled muscle! Even after a CT scan and an MRI...

Our newer family doctor is OK with me weaning myself off the Codone...but everytime I drop a half dosage I get HUGE restless...I can handle the vomiting and nausea and everything else...but I HATE the restless feeling. I'm bone tired and the rest of me wants to go jogging! LOL

Hi, Runestonez,Welcome to the CP forum. Wow - you sure have been through a lot! The one thing I was wondering was if consulting an Addictionologist might help. I am NOT saying you're an addict, but your body is dependent on the medications, and Addictionologists are specilists trained in Addiction Medicine and might have the latest strategies for dealing with withdrawal symptoms.

Just a thought - and not meant to offend!

Take care. And again, welcome, but sorry for all you're going through.

What an ordeal!!! Not only being in pain but having to go to India of all places to have surgery on your spine....I'm sorry, but I wouldn't have went there to have it done. And, what crappy heads to torture you that way. If I have pain meds, and theyre legal, they better not touch them....I think you were brave....very brave.....

How are you doing now?

Me.

I have been a spectator for so long..Now it's time to participate.......

Me,I know we're not yet used to it here in the U.S., but there is some cutting edge care being provided in India. Not in all hospitals, mind you, but a friend of mine recruits nurses internationally and spent about a year in India helping to set up a state of the art hospital, I think in Mumbai (sp?). Don't know where Runestonez went, but I'll bet it was a pretty modern facility, although it sounds like they didn't know much about helping with pain meds.!

Hello and welcome to Healing Well. Wow, what a story, omg how barbaric can they be. You are very lucky you survived the withdrawls over there, seriously. What you went thru is pathetic, I do not care how good of a surgeon you had. Why India, why was India the only place you could go? What kind of surgery did they do? Sorry, for the questions just extremely interested.

There are many things available to help you get off the medication totally. Your dr should be able to help you in this area. Please get in to see him to discuss this. I am very happy to hear that you are doing so well since surgery except for the meds problem. Please be extremely careful and do not over-do. Following your post-op instructions are just as important as the surgery itself. I do not know if your dr here is allowing it, but when he does it most likely will be walking. Walking is the very best form of exercise for people that have had back surgery particularly. It builds up your strength ans stamina just don't over do.

Ok first questions first...(and you thought the first email was long!)

Here is the whole story!

Why India?

Well I was working as a welder on an assembly line and one day I had this horrific pain in my back and I found I couldn't lift anything anymore...I thought it was a pulled muscle and so did my doctor. So I took a week off of work and took some meds...no good...still couldn't function...so I had to take the rest of the month off and rest. At this point my insurance company stood up and told everyone they weren't paying me unless I enrolled in physio...no arguments here! I was going stir crazy at home! I don't think I have sat that still in years! Unfortunately, physio seemed to make things even worse. So at the end of the next month(physio completed)...my doctor is still calling it a pulled muscle and I am getting really worried...not to mention I am now in constant pain. So the insurance company once again rears it's head and says no more money unless I get a CAT scan and X-rays...my doctor was mad as H*ll...but he agreed finally. I had to wait 8 months to have the CAT done of course because I was a low priority...and the X-rays came back with nothing. So in the meantime, they tried to send me back to work and I made it 1 week on modified duties and then collapsed. So they yanked me out of work permanently this time!

Finally the CAT scan came back and showed 1 herniated disc. So I was referred out of town to an Orthopaedic Surgeon(we had a doctor shortage here)...that took another 8 months to come about...the surgeon finally saw us and said he didn't like the CAT...he wanted an MRI. Well another 6 months goes by--again. The MRI comes back finally. So we drive another hour out of town to see the surgeon...again. We had already discussed our options with him at the last meeting and he had told us that if it was just one disc we were going to do surgery and fix it...fine and dandy...back to work in 6 months! Whoo hoo!

So we show up for the appointment all optimistic(after this we knew better), he walked in...looked at us...said he was sorry but there were 5 affected discs and he put the succes rate at less than 60%...so he advised us to come back when I was in a wheelchair or couldn't take the pain anymore. He left the room while hubby and I sat there with our mouths hanging open!

Apparently I had a rather high pain threshold...I basically was a workaholic and slowly herniated discs until when I got to 5 it hurt enough that I had to stop finally.

The next five years I spent tracking down various surgeons in Canada that were doing clinical trials, or heading research into disc replacement, etc...they all just kept saying they were sorry but I had too many factors against me...too many discs, DDD, Facette degeneration, OA, the list goes on...and on...etc...

I never thought someone could be injured and NOT get the medical help they needed. The last doc at the Hamilton Ambulatory Spinal Clinic actually told me he wouldn't touch me with a 10 foot pole. Nice...

I was getting to the point that it was getting harder to stay mobile and any upright movement was horribly painful...the whole gamut of radiating pain etc...hamstring issues...I was only comfortable bending forward and even then I couldn't sit up very long...I started to spend more and more time in bed lying down and I was starting to worry that the docs were going to finally get their way...they kept telling me I would be in a wheelchair by Christmas of 2005...but I kept pushing and pushing...I didn't know if I was making it worse but I was trying so hard to kept some of my muscle tone...

At one point in 2004 the insurance company once again decided to get involved and enrolled me in a re-hab program that was touted as a "pain managment" program...honestly for muscle issues it would be great...for someone with herniated discs...it made me so bad I could no longer control my bladder functions...they just patted me on the shoulder and told me it was just muscles keep going...they also decided I was depressed and thought it would be a good idea to put me on Remeron...I went from being a normal sane person to honestly thinking about suicide for awhile...when I realized what was happening I contacted everyone and told them I had to stop the meds and they told me not to! They told me that the meds had a cumulative effect to just push through it! Seriously! I finally grew a backbone (so to speak) and put my foot down...I stopped the meds, quit the re-hab program and went back to searching for other surgeons! In the meantime I also found a new family doctor...the other one was still calling my back issue a pulled muscle...

The insurance wrote me of at this point and stopped offering me re-hab programs. I think I made them mad! lol

So long story much shorter than the real version...a racoon ate all the Koi in my pond! (no I haven't taken my Codone dose...yes it is related!)

I went to a guys house to buy some more Koi from him...his wife is a hair dresser and new a lady whose husband had just returned from India after spine surgery. Slowly my name got passed from person to person until this lady finally called me and we had a chance to talk together...they had seen a special on TV about a man that had gone to India and as her husband was immobile after a botched surgery in the US, they had nothing left to lose...she was afraid he might just give up because of the pain and off himself...so they contacted a program here in Canada that facilitates cross border surgeries and they set everything up...forwarded his files to India for approval etc... and finally they went. He just completed his last de-compression surgery this February just passed and he is now walking and driving again and in almost no pain whatsoever!!!

We sent my files with little or no hope of being approved since 9 doctors here already turned me down...but the surgeon who specializes in spinal disorders said it was a simple surgery and approved me for surgery. Great...now all we had to do was find the money! Our doctor refused to sign the OHIP papers for us because he didn't like the fact that we weren't waiting like the doctors here wanted...so we mortgaged the H*ll out of our house and booked the surgery anyway!

I left here on July 22nd...had the surgery on July 30th and was walking upright on the 31st! Seriously..they had me out of bed and walking the next day! I was taller, and they did it without bone grafting...there have been 6 papers written on the inadvisablility of grafting with bone and 2 have been written by this doctor! He does the surgeries and does an amazing job! (aside from the withdrawl!!) He is such a dynamic person...he walks in the room and just sucks all the air out of you! He is aggressive and confident...looks a bit too much like an Indian version of Eugene Levy...but that is another topic for later!

He decided that the tests we had already had done weren't good enough...he looked at his assistant and told him he wanted a new MRI, CT, and 2 sets of X-rays, cardiology, hemetology, ECG...the tests go on! It was 6pm when I was admitted and spent literally the next 3 hours in one test or another so he could review everything when he started his shift at 9am the next day!

Considering I had to wait 8 months for any scheduled test here...I was stunned!

He was also the first doctor that was able to tell me exactly what was wrong with me...Spondlylithesis Grade1 at L4-5 and Degenerated Disc at L3-4.

I didn't need to have 4 discs removed and fusions done which is what they were saying here...he told me I was going to lose the L4-5 disc since it was completely gone and the bone had started to flake...but the next disc up was still alive but in bad shape...so they decided to do a TLIF L4-5 and Transition Fixation L3-4 (globus). The rest of the discs would righ themselves once the damaged discs were supported properly. So I lost the L4-5 disc and they pulled my spine back into place...spaced out the L4-5 disc space put a spacer in to keep the space and used pedicle screws to hold it in place...the next disc up had a Dynamic Knuckle added to space out the disc space while keeping the disc allowing it to re-generate without the pressure on it and screwed it in place...all without any bone grafts! And with the dynamic knuckle at the L3-4 I still have total mobility...only the L4-5 had to be fused permanently...the rest is completely flexible!

I only gave them 10 days post-surgery and then I told them I was flying back home on the 10th day...It was the longest I could give them...I had to get back home! I was gone a total of 21 days altogether...and I wanted to be back at my house!

Yeah...they wanted me to stay an additonal 6 days but I convinced the surgeon I was fine and he gave me my fit to fly papers...OK to be honest...in retrospect...about 2 hours into the return flight I wished to god I had kept my feet on the ground! LOL

But I made it back and I have been walking trying to build up my muscles again! I have had a few set backs here and there! I can't bend at the waist for 3 months, lift or twist...so I have pulled a few muscles here and there...but it is getting better and better each day...I had alot of neuro pain at first...the nerves were really upset once they were unpinched and had 7 years of B*tching to catch up on! lol But I literally have no pain...muscle yes...but no the pain that I had before the surgery. It is harder in a way because you know your normal pain so intimately...and then all of a sudden it is gone and there is pain from all different sources...but 3 weeks late it is heaven! I can handle what neuro pain there is and I have almost stopped the Codone now...I am down to 2.5mg every 4-6 hours...at least until I am able to walk a bit better...hopefully I'll be done by next week...I hope...

I did see my family doctor today and he asked me about weaning off of Oxycodone...he seems happy with my progress...I am frustrated that I seem to be eating miniscule flakes of this obnoxious drug and my body still craves it...I got good and mad the other day and stopped---again---I was twitching so bad that night I pulled the muscles in my back and have been on bed rest for the last 2 days...so he advised me to keep cutting the stupid pills in half and lengthening the time between doses...because as he tells me I am a drug addict now...<big sigh> I know I can't beat him to death...but is it against the law to poke him in the eye a bit?

He thinks it is funny that I seem to be taking forever to wean off...I mean it was only 7 years I was taking morephine...should be a cake walk right? <disgusted snorting> He's not getting jack for Christmas this year---not from me anyway!

So anyway that is the long story of why I finally gave up and started to look at India...honestly...except for the withdrawl...which I agree they could have handled much better it was a god send for us! I have 3 months to recover and let the back muscle sutures heal...then I have absolutely zero restrictions...NONE. In one year they tell me that it will be impossible to tell I ever had a back injury nevermind a spinal surgery!!! I used to be very active so I covered the full course of things I wanted to do...skating, skiing, rollercoasters, horseback riding, tobogganning! Whatever I want to do...I can do!

Why the hell didn't I hear about this 7 years ago while I was still hale and hearty and could have snapped back right after the surgery...and without the nasty meds???

This is a surgery they do 4-5 times a day in India...whereas the docs here do it 4-5 times a year. It isn't considered a high risk op either...it is a standard surgery!

The hospital wasn't the Ritz, it is pretty old but well cared for...it is India for Gods sake...we were in one of the larger cities...(we were at the Apollo Hospital in Chennai as that is the hospital that specializes in spinal issues)...but you are wheeled into the operating room and all the machines are top of the line...brand spanking new...I can honestly say that the day of the surgery as they wheeeled me to the OR I was totally peaceful...not a worry at all...with Dr. Hegde he doesn't leave room for worry...there just wasn't any...

Now if they could learn to work on the whole withdrawl thing! They HATE HATE HATE anelgesics...they don't prescribe them if they don't have to...so when people come in who have been on them for long term treatment...they consider the Western doctors here to be jerks...lol so they take you off of them..period...

With space and perspective...and knowing what I do know...I think I would have kept a few meds back (the 5 mg tabs) and let the rest go...just to stop the twitching and enough to allow me to eat and not get as horribly sick as i did...so to anyone who decides to go to India...keep this in mind! Keep a few for emergencies! LOL Or even better get your doctor to write you a letter asking them to wean you and set up a program for them to follow! They are very receptive to suggestions...who knows...it might work!

So I will continue to wean...but eventually I will have to deal with the last of the withdrawl since I can't keep mushing the tabs to flakes trying to cut them down! LOL My doctor is happy with the progress I have made so far...so I seriously doubt he will let me see anyone about this(no offense taken! ) ...I guess in the end I will have to suck it up and deal...it just depends how small I can cut the tablets in the meantime!! LOL

Wow!! I'll eat my words after reading that. I kinda wish that the surgeon that operated on me had all of your surgeon's knowledge...maybe I'd be in better shape. I had fusion surgery 4 years ago with the bone grafting and I regret it...Nothing got better, as a matter of fact the pain is worse then ever. I am so stiff and I seem to be "STUCK" every day when I wake up. It takes me an hour to get to where I can bend a little...Mine was L5-S1...I can be thankful that I didn't have any "Hardware" put in.

I really don't think you'll have any problems when you finally wean yourself off the meds...you seem like a very courageous and strong person...I wish I had your strength and could get through life without the pain meds...but I can't. So, keep doing what you're doing...because you will do fine.

Me.

also, as a person interested in all things mystical...I love the name.

I have been a spectator for so long..Now it's time to participate.......

lol :)You know what is funny...?People keep saying how brave or courageous I was...but honestly it had reached a point where it was do something or just finally give up!You can only chase around in circles for so long before you just have to give up and admit that it is a lost cause and that you are never going to get better! I had really reached that point...I was so defeated. Everytime we went to a new doctor I would get my hopes up and then there was always the depression when they sent me home with no answers and a pat on the back for trying.

I was really ready to try anything...and I really did research the Dr. and the hospital before we went. I tracked down 11 previous patients and was impressed when no matter how hard I looked I couldn't find one person with anything bad to say...not about the hospital, the surgeon, the nurses...nothing.I figured it was time to put up or give up...so we went!

-Runestonez-I love all things mystical too...I am actually a hedge witch, so the name is fitting since I do actually read runestones! lol :DI have tarot but I like my stones best!

and it has nothing to do with being strong...everybody has their limits as to what they can tolerate...I have a really high pain threshold...and honestly when I get sore I get mad as h*ll rather than admit I hurt! lolAnyone else in a chronic pain position would handle it their own way too.You do what you can and leave the rest to chance...What else can you do!

Oh that is the weird thing...i haven't been able to crack my back in years and now after the surgery...I sound like rice krispies!I feel like everything is slipping and moving...very odd!I feel a bit stiff where the fusion is...but I can feel the "hardware" moving sometimes when I move...it was worst after the surgery...and I only feel it a bit now and again...but it is def a disturbing feeling!lol