This is a discussion on KK on the flop... How would you play it? within the online poker forums, in the Cash Games section; This is my eighth hand of the "How would you play it" series.
Again it will be a play by play.
$0.01/$0.02 NLHE 6-Max 6 player
Villain (LJ):

I don't think villains has J8, T7 or 97, so you are only losing to T9, 77, 99 and TT. There are so other many combos in villains range that you are probably ahead for now.

#4

September 25th, 2018, 1:56 PM

xbronk

Online Poker at: pokerstars

Game: texas holdem

Posts: 457

I would verify that you may be far behind in these moments or far ahead but I would verify even if it seems that the best thing is not to let you see more letters without paying more

#5

September 25th, 2018, 3:01 PM

Dentolle

Poker at: Pokerstars

Game: holdem

Posts: 14

We don't have any info on Villain.
But for me it's a clear CBet - 3/4 pot

#6

September 25th, 2018, 3:03 PM

braveslice

Online Poker at: Pokerstars

Game: 6max zoom

Posts: 1,974

Cbet for me too, edit: 3/4 = 0.29

#7

September 25th, 2018, 4:06 PM

Pablo22

Game: holdem

Posts: 462

re: Poker & KK on the flop... How would you play it?

I would bet half of the pot.

#8

September 25th, 2018, 4:13 PM

georgi krastev

Online Poker at: PS/ACR/CC

Game: Hold'em

Posts: 2,280

I bet here in this scenario .

#9

September 25th, 2018, 4:55 PM

neiroob

Posts: 292

I would have defended my hand here and put 75% of the bank.

#10

September 25th, 2018, 4:59 PM

perrywh

Posts: 152

I bet the pot.

#11

September 25th, 2018, 5:43 PM

HeyMan

Poker at: Blackchip

Game: Omaha

Posts: 128

Either bet 3/4 or full pot and see what happens ..decisions if you get called ...

#12

September 25th, 2018, 5:44 PM

Miguel Chacon

Online Poker at: PokerStars

Game: NL Hold'em

Posts: 323

In this situation I would bet 3/4 Pot cause there are lot of straight draws with this flop so that way you protect your hand aginst some cards you don't want to see on Turn or river

#13

September 25th, 2018, 6:22 PM

57noona

Poker at: ACR

Game: holdem

Posts: 724

I would bet 1/2 the pot.

#14

September 25th, 2018, 10:08 PM

hugh blair

Online Poker at: pokerstars

Game: Holdem/omaha

Posts: 4,774

re: Poker & KK on the flop... How would you play it?

Bet pot or jam here board is wet protect your hand good luck.

#15

September 25th, 2018, 10:34 PM

henriquemaduro

Poker at: Pokerstars

Game: NL holdem

Posts: 667

Originally Posted by Andrew Popov

1/3 Pot Bet.

I would do the same

#16

September 26th, 2018, 1:23 AM

crisco609

Online Poker at: ACR

Game: Holdem

Posts: 189

1/3 of the pot sounds like a safe bet, however if they've been somebody who has been throwing chips around I would have bet the pot. Another possible move if it matches with the villians style would be to possibly check the flop to downplay your hand and make a move on the flop if they check again.

#17

September 26th, 2018, 1:32 AM

63burner

Poker at: AmericasCard

Posts: 244

against the grain play..

Originally Posted by EvertonGirl

This is my eighth hand of the "How would you play it" series.Again it will be a play by play.$0.01/$0.02 NLHE 6-Max 6 player

Villain (LJ): $2.18Hero (BN): $3.58

Pre flop: (pot: $0.03) Hero has K♦ K♣

LJ raises to $0.06, 2 folds, Hero raises to $0.18, 2 folds, LJ calls

Flop: ($0.39, 2 players) 7♣ T♦ 9♠

LJ check, Hero??

What would you do here on the flop, check it back or bet?

EDIT: I had $0.27 as the pot on the flop, I forgot to add the LJ's call

I would check it back, see if villain will let hand play out, he might not have the nuts. Normally, I would shove KK, but that board is a tough read, so many combinations..

How to play would depend on your relative chip stack, will it kill your stack to make the move you want?

#18

September 26th, 2018, 1:36 AM

vpashuta

Online Poker at: Bet On Line

Game: holdem

Posts: 385

Bet 1/2 pot. I've been drawn out on too many times to not bet.

#19

September 26th, 2018, 1:36 AM

Johnson baker

Poker at: Pokerstars

Game: All

Posts: 226

I'd bet at least the pot. See what's what. Also would depend on the flow leading up to that hand but gotta get I think.

#20

September 26th, 2018, 7:28 AM

Andrew Popov

Online Poker at: PokerStars

Posts: 1,890

In the end, we agreed that we should put 1/3 or 3/4 of the bank. Does anyone have an expert opinion, which of these two is more correct?

#21

September 26th, 2018, 7:36 AM

Gamebreakr25

Poker at: America's Ca

Game: NL Holdem

Posts: 100

re: Poker & KK on the flop... How would you play it?

Originally Posted by EvertonGirl

This is my eighth hand of the "How would you play it" series.Again it will be a play by play.$0.01/$0.02 NLHE 6-Max 6 player

Villain (LJ): $2.18Hero (BN): $3.58

Pre flop: (pot: $0.03) Hero has K♦ K♣

LJ raises to $0.06, 2 folds, Hero raises to $0.18, 2 folds, LJ calls

Flop: ($0.39, 2 players) 7♣ T♦ 9♠

LJ check, Hero??

What would you do here on the flop, check it back or bet?

EDIT: I had $0.27 as the pot on the flop, I forgot to add the LJ's call

Hi there !!! I would bet 100 percent of the pot here. So, 40 cents. I would usually go 2/3rd's here, but the board is pretty connected. I would want to charge the villain's draws. Take care

#22

September 26th, 2018, 10:18 AM

Edvin55555

Posts: 129

This board is not very good for KK. But you should cbet about 50% of pot to get value from AK, JJ and straight draws.

#23

September 26th, 2018, 2:51 PM

EvertonGirl

Poker at: PS PP 888

Game: NLHE PLO/2-7

Posts: 7,536

Here is what hero did:

LJ checks, Hero raises to $0.25, LJ raises to $0.77, Hero??

What would you do now? Call or cbet?

#24

September 26th, 2018, 6:57 PM

braveslice

Online Poker at: Pokerstars

Game: 6max zoom

Posts: 1,974

If we call we are pot commited (feels like it?), so I prefer shoving.

With info folding is option too, but 6max is ocassionally quite aggressive even under 25nl.

I would call here and see whats happens later. If villain bets huge after turn, you are probably beat.

#26

September 27th, 2018, 2:55 AM

Poker_Mike

Posts: 671

You can bet that I'm betting here. Why wouldn't you? Trapping? har har….Let him just get there and then fold? I guess that's an option....

Bet, bet and keep betting until he raises and you pause to contemplate whether he has 2 pair or the straight.

AT, KT, QT, JT, may very well pay you the whole way and not beat you.

Good luck !

#27

September 27th, 2018, 9:01 AM

PuntinHundies

Game: NLHE PLO

Posts: 24

I think that you have a clear bet in this spot, somewhere between 1/2-3/4 of the pot. You want to get value for your KK and charge your opponent to draw if they have a straight draw or an ace in their hand. When the turn brings another straight card, you may consider slowing down if your opponent leads out.

If you get check raised on this flop, then you have a decision to make. On this board texture when you get check raised, you will either be facing a set or something like top pair with an open ended straight draw.

Either way I feel like making a medium large bet on this flop is best.

#28

September 27th, 2018, 9:35 AM

Vulpix

Online Poker at: ACR/BOL

Posts: 14

re: Poker & KK on the flop... How would you play it?

Interesting hand, thanks for sharing!
As others have suggested, I would bet ~1/3p on the flop. Facing a c/r, I would call and evaluate the turn. A 'reasonable' range of hands that would call a 3b preflop OOP, and c/r this flop would be:
99+,QJs,T9s
Against this range, it is almost a literal flip; 49.48/50.52 in their favor.
It is likely they don't have KK+ and removing these hands makes it ~59/41 in your favor. Could also consider including 88 in their range, although this seems a bit loose preflop and on the flop.
If you call their c/r, the pot will be 0.39 + 0.77 + 0.77 = 1.93. The effective stack would be 1.23, so about 67% of the pot. On the turn, if they check I think you can safely shove for less than pot. If they lead shove, it depends on what the turn is. If the turn is 2 - 7, call. If its an 8, fold. 9/T are close, and I'm not sure, perhaps 50/50 between call and fold. J, Q, K, A call.

Just my opinion, interested to see results.
-vulpix.

#29

September 27th, 2018, 9:51 AM

Misaki

Posts: 353

I have the questions to all of you who choose 1/3 bet. Do you even know why do people tend to bet 1/3 nowadays in many spots? and why do you choose 1/3 bet sizingi if you decided to bet? what's an idea to choose that sizing in that spot? Do you play your entire range choosing that sizing? do you bet AKs here too with 1/3? or you just check/fold it even with backdoors? etc. etc.

guys it's nl2. you complicate your life too much. if you don't want to see a raise then choose check/call line. If you want to bet because you think you have a valuebet and because it's nl2 then mostly you have a valuebet then choose the bet. But not 1/3. I would choose definitely 1/2-2/3 sizing here on tight ranges. If he will raise you then I would consider a fold without an info, but most of the time just bet bet bet on safe cards. Easy game, easy gameplan on the lowest poker limit.

#30

September 27th, 2018, 10:09 AM

Vulpix

Online Poker at: ACR/BOL

Posts: 14

Originally Posted by Misaki

I have the questions to all of you who choose 1/3 bet. Do you even know why do people tend to bet 1/3 nowadays in many spots? and why do you choose 1/3 bet sizingi if you decided to bet? what's an idea to choose that sizing in that spot? Do you play your entire range choosing that sizing? do you bet AKs here too with 1/3? or you just check/fold it even with backdoors? etc. etc.

guys it's nl2. you complicate your life too much. if you don't want to see a raise then choose check/call line. If you want to bet because you think you have a valuebet and because it's nl2 then mostly you have a valuebet then choose the bet. But not 1/3. I would choose definitely 1/2-2/3 sizing here on tight ranges. If he will raise you then I would consider a fold without an info, but most of the time just bet bet bet on safe cards. Easy game, easy gameplan on the lowest poker limit.

I would guess that people likely use that sizing because
1) The solver said so
2) They saw successful players doing it

I chose 1/3p because:
1) given my experience in similar spots, it 'seems to work'
2) keeps ranges wide, and folds out a decent chunk of their range, while risking the least
3) nicely sets up a bet/bet/shove line, can shove for a pot sized bet on river, when sized properly.

So, that's my idea on why I use it. You could pot the flop, and shove the turn for about a pot sized bet, sure. It is not clear which is better, but both seem fine. In 3b pots depending on the board, I tend to use smaller sizings, because ranges are usually fairly polarized. With that being said, developing 'good habits', even at the lower limits, will help as you move up.

-vulpix

#31

September 27th, 2018, 10:44 AM

Misaki

Posts: 353

Originally Posted by Vulpix

I would guess that people likely use that sizing because
1) The solver said so
2) They saw successful players doing it

on micro I guess no ones uses solvers and if they do they harms their game. So I guess correct answer is 2nd answer. They saw players on HIGHER limits making it.

Originally Posted by Vulpix

I chose 1/3p because:
1) given my experience in similar spots, it 'seems to work'
2) keeps ranges wide, and folds out a decent chunk of their range, while risking the least
3) nicely sets up a bet/bet/shove line, can shove for a pot sized bet on river, when sized properly.

So, that's my idea on why I use it. You could pot the flop, and shove the turn for about a pot sized bet, sure. It is not clear which is better, but both seem fine. In 3b pots depending on the board, I tend to use smaller sizings, because ranges are usually fairly polarized. With that being said, developing 'good habits', even at the lower limits, will help as you move up.

ye I get your point and I believe it can work but still I prefer to protect my hand with normal bet sizing because ranges are tight so it's not like that you keep the ranges wide. Because you probably get a call from same range using 33% and 50%. Sometimes you can get calls from hands like AQs with backdoors but that's really small part of villains range.
I disagree with your 2nd point about risking less. So why do you 3bet KK if you think about risking money but not earning money? and you think about folding some hands in villains range but not about extracting value?
3rd point is ok but most of the people call twice anyway so if they call they are most of the time just behind vs your kings so you earn less, because you decided to choose smaller sizings.

Anyway if some of you choose 1/3bet because vs a raise you have a hard spot and you can call a raise at least once so don't you realize that you are burning money? ranges are tight, people on micro are very honest with their ranges in 3bet pots and if you call a raise you have no clue where you at. what do you do on total blank? still call turn bet? when mostly you are behind? because on some scary cards you fold anyway. It would be just better to broke the flop than calling a raise. Of course you can keep villain's bluff but how many does he have there on tight ranges? almost none unless you play with a spazzer. That's why I would decide to bet myself and make my decision more easy. just by choosing bigger sizing than 1/3 and fold vs aggression unless I know villain can choose to ship hands here like JJ, QQ.

or just choose check/call line what would be ok too. But on nl2 I prefer to bet.

#32

September 28th, 2018, 5:36 PM

Danoncebay

Online Poker at: Pokerstars

Game: Holdem

Posts: 58

I think it would be the healthiest to do 3/4 to be able to shield my ranges and give them value

#33

September 28th, 2018, 9:49 PM

ChipWinged

Poker at: PokerStars

Game: holdem

Posts: 94

I am sure about wrongest move - slowplay. LJ can have straight-draw so we should avoid to see turn. So bet should be not small (1-3bb will be called by him) and not all-in because we are not crazy. Semi-pot is a little dangerous (0.20$) but after this bet LJ call only with AA or three of a kind. I would bet 0.15$

#34

September 28th, 2018, 10:26 PM

Ivan Pasha

Posts: 4

bet 65-70%

#35

September 29th, 2018, 10:58 AM

Spewster

Posts: 64

re: Poker & KK on the flop... How would you play it?

So first of all, its a 1ct/2ct game, which means throw hand reading out of the window. Calling a 3bet OOP is a donk move, but in those stakes they are not even thinking about that.

You 3bet your KK, which is correct and villain is making more of an ego call aka "I dont let this guy push me off my hand" move, which happens pretty often.

So in these games it's important to remember that it's very often a way ahead, way behind scenario in which hero only has an overpair and 2 outs.

So it doesn't make sense to bet big on the flop. If he has nothing, he will also fold to a small bet, if he has it, hero will lose a lot.

So 1/3 pot is the best option here and betting 3/4 pot would be a massive mistake.

I hate to say it, but IMO your hand is dead after he check raised you. He either hit a set, two pair with T9. I don't see a lot of x/r bluffing in microstakes, especially not in 3bet pots.

A call would let me think overpair, TP...but a x/r for this kind of size?
It depends on reads what I would do here. If villain was a fish, I'd call, because there is so much trash in his range and he would also "defend ATo" here.Against a reg, I'd just fold.

A word about betting for "protection": It's bullshit. You bet to fold out better hands, get called by worse hands and bloat the pot when you have the goods.

When you bet big in this scenario, only better hands will call and worse hands will fold...not what you want.