I hear your government is up in flames because climate change skeptics are about to royally screw over legislation in the Senate - opposition skeptics, nonetheless.

Essentially what I've seen so far is that the Liberals are splitting themselves apart as their leader, Turnbull, who is actually a liberal, made a deal with Labour to allow some environmental legislation to pass in the Senate, where the Liberals hold a majority/plurality. Skeptics, left over from John Howard's leadership I'm guessing, are challenging Turnbull and have resigned a whole bunch of posts within the party. This all threatens the legislation, which I'm guessing is a confidence motion, because apparently an election may be called if it doesn't pass. An election that Labour is predicted to win easily.

This is the limited information I have, mostly from BBC. I was wondering whether the resident Aussies on this website would know anything more, and could explain the situation a little better?

At 11/26/2009 8:38:17 PM, Volkov wrote:I hear your government is up in flames because climate change skeptics are about to royally screw over legislation in the Senate - opposition skeptics, nonetheless.

Essentially what I've seen so far is that the Liberals are splitting themselves apart as their leader, Turnbull, who is actually a liberal, made a deal with Labour to allow some environmental legislation to pass in the Senate, where the Liberals hold a majority/plurality. Skeptics, left over from John Howard's leadership I'm guessing, are challenging Turnbull and have resigned a whole bunch of posts within the party. This all threatens the legislation, which I'm guessing is a confidence motion, because apparently an election may be called if it doesn't pass. An election that Labour is predicted to win easily.

This is the limited information I have, mostly from BBC. I was wondering whether the resident Aussies on this website would know anything more, and could explain the situation a little better?

As an Australian, sadly I'll have to admit that you've actually taught me more about the situation than I have managed to pick up on in the past few weeks. I'm pretty apathetic about politics (which you probably take as blasphemy Volkov :D), but I can give you an extremely uninformed Australian view of what I believe is happening, mostly from what I've picked up from news snippets.

The government (Labour) wishes to implement the so-called Emissions Trading Scheme (ETS) and it appears that's what's going to happen at present. Liberal (the opposition) are completely divided over whether or not it's a good idea. Turnbull was on Sunrise (similar to the Morning Show and stuff in America) this morning talking about how we need to act on climate change (his quote was we need to "give the environment the benefit of the doubt), we can't be a nation of do-nothings and all this stuff.

There are two f@ggy back-benchers in the Liberal party Joe Hockey and Tony Abbott who are against the ETS, and they appear to have a lot of support within the party. I believe on Monday, something is gonna go down... they all have to go to senate and vote on the ETS and it's entirely possible that Turnbull will be voted out of the leadership position and even the party, to be replaced either by Hockey or Abbott.

That's about all I know dude, I realize I haven't taught you anything about it you don't know, but that is about all the info I've managed to pick up in the past week or two.

"Let me tell you the truth. The truth is, 'what is'. And 'what should be' is a fantasy, a terrible terrible lie that someone gave to the people long ago. The 'what should be' never did exist, but people keep trying to live up to it. There is no 'what should be,' there is only what is." - Lenny Bruce

"Satan goes to church, did you know that?" - Godsands

"And Genisis 1 does match modern science... you just have to try really hard." - GR33K FR33K5

It's all over the proposed ETS, Emissions Trading Scheme - businesses will get to trade unused levels of emissions to other countries. It's an odd policy since it would require other countries to have a similar deal, which none do at present.

Basically Turbull is of the position that, even if the skeptics are right, we can't afford to be wrong. Questions are being asked about the level of tax rise needed to cost new environmental policies "carbon-based stealth tax", the benefit of driving away business to countries where environmental industry practices are looser anyway, resulting in no gain.

And yep, you pretty much got this right... Abbott and Hockey were former Howard @rse-kissers and are leading the skeptic side of the party.

On Sunrise this morning, Turnbull said they were "making Howard look like a Greenie" (as in a member of the Greens Party, basically a hippy parliament party in Aus).

"Let me tell you the truth. The truth is, 'what is'. And 'what should be' is a fantasy, a terrible terrible lie that someone gave to the people long ago. The 'what should be' never did exist, but people keep trying to live up to it. There is no 'what should be,' there is only what is." - Lenny Bruce

"Satan goes to church, did you know that?" - Godsands

"And Genisis 1 does match modern science... you just have to try really hard." - GR33K FR33K5

Not that I really care (I dummy-vote), but I'd prefer Hockey than Abbott. Abbott just annoys me, he doesn't even have to talk I see his face and feel like punching it. :)

"Let me tell you the truth. The truth is, 'what is'. And 'what should be' is a fantasy, a terrible terrible lie that someone gave to the people long ago. The 'what should be' never did exist, but people keep trying to live up to it. There is no 'what should be,' there is only what is." - Lenny Bruce

"Satan goes to church, did you know that?" - Godsands

"And Genisis 1 does match modern science... you just have to try really hard." - GR33K FR33K5

Good lord, Abbott won. Everyone was sure Hockey would trounce Abbott in the spill off, but he was never clear as to whether he would oppose the ETS, and if elected was most likely going to ratify it. I am guessing this is the only way Abbott could have garnered that many votes - since he openly opposes the ETS.

At 11/30/2009 5:55:37 PM, Volkov wrote:What a shame. They really should change the party's name - they don't seem too liberal to me.

Traditionally the Liberal party focuses more on promoting industry and trade, socially - welfare expansion. Under Howard (12 odd years) numerous monetary incentive schemes designed to boost citizen spending on housing, families. Howard also focused on removing the trade deficit (versus say infrastructure expansion, schools etc.) - when he left power country was in the black. Green issues were usually at the back somewhere.

Labour is traditionally blue collar, though much less now, with a long and undistinguished history of tax rises and massive government spending in infrastructure, and raising the national debt. Rudd is no exception to this - current foreign debt is over a billion. Rudd plans to commit $43 billion to a national broadband grid. >.< Social issues Rudd is a bit of an odd duck - conservative mainly, there was talk he would enforce a national ban to access to 'inappropriate' sites - though that's been a bit quiet lately.

I am aware of Labour's lovely performance, though. Do you think Rudd has been an alright PM so far?

He really comes across as apathetic in policy and arrogant of mind - and not the hey I'm actually doing good so I can be sort. One of his first acts was to abolish workplace relations reforms - what probably won him the election, he apologised to the indigenous population for past government action, publicity yay, did the same for those in state care, orphanages, church institutions, publicity stunt I would hazard given the current furore over his refugee decisions in Indonesia.

He has signed some trade deals, but that's not wow - China wants our raw materials so we sell them. :P

Economic crash, his plan was to send out $900 odd dollars to all tax paying citizens - and then build one new building where possible in schools, military bases, to keep tradesman in business. Even when such places had no desire, need, or purpose for them.

If pressed to say if he has done anything outstanding or exemplary, no, not at all. Do I like his policies? No not really. Is he going to harm the economy in the long run - quite possibly. He comes across as just another The Big Players patsy - okaying whatever international policies will seem to give him international support, e.g. increased troop support and indigenous training in Afghanistan, and a fawning aspect to the U.N. and associated climate conferences.

True enough. Its nice getting an Aussie's perspective - haven't had for awhile. I need to find a Kiwi next...

Anyways, it doesn't surprise me you aren't a fan of Rudd, and neither am I in particular. But, it amazes me from what you've told me, compared to some of the polls I've been seeing in terms of support for Rudd, along the two-party line in particular. It hasn't gone below 55% in a while, eh.

Australia's situation with Rudd remind me of my own country's - leader isn't exactly competent nor completely loved, but does enough to look "busy" and the opposition is in such disarray that it doesn't matter.

Lol, I checked sportsbet.com.au about a week ago and the odds were something like $2.20 Labour, $4.50 any other party. Today they've been changed to $1.16 Labour, $5 any other party. I wonder why...

"Let me tell you the truth. The truth is, 'what is'. And 'what should be' is a fantasy, a terrible terrible lie that someone gave to the people long ago. The 'what should be' never did exist, but people keep trying to live up to it. There is no 'what should be,' there is only what is." - Lenny Bruce

"Satan goes to church, did you know that?" - Godsands

"And Genisis 1 does match modern science... you just have to try really hard." - GR33K FR33K5

"Let me tell you the truth. The truth is, 'what is'. And 'what should be' is a fantasy, a terrible terrible lie that someone gave to the people long ago. The 'what should be' never did exist, but people keep trying to live up to it. There is no 'what should be,' there is only what is." - Lenny Bruce

"Satan goes to church, did you know that?" - Godsands

"And Genisis 1 does match modern science... you just have to try really hard." - GR33K FR33K5