They should forget the age thing. Let the market decide, let the parents and kids decide what tournament type to enter. In FL. many tournaments now have choices depending on the demand.

For example, last weekend we went to a tournament that offered Orange Ball G 10s and B 10s. Yellow ball G 12s, B 12s, G 14s, B 14s. No red or green, just orange and yellow because the tournament director did some trial and error and found out those offerings drew kids.

The orange 10s had some little tikes, some very raw, some very good. A few kids were in the yellow ball 12s that had no business playing yellow yet and they lost 6-0,6-0 in the 1st round. But thats the parents call to put them into that.

The market will decide. Offer the red or orange or green or yellow as the specific market demands. Train the beginners using the red, orange, yellow system in a lesson setting, then let them play the type tournaments they want.

The Norcal rigid age deal is just wrong. A good coach will produce sound players and a bad coach will produce bad players, no matter if you force kids to use red, orange, green, or not.

Thanks TCF, I think that might be in the cards. Florida might be a stretch, but my parents live down in SoCal, so we will probably hit some of those tourneys, maybe a little Mo's, or, what I'm guessing will happen, local pro's will start putting on their own tourneys. I know a lot (about half) of our local pro's are really upset about this, but there are a good number of Pro's that are drinking the USTA Water on this and are totally on board.

This is going to go Nationwide, I'm 99% sure.

Have you been to any of the little mo tourneys? What is the competition like in the youngest groups?

Its hit and miss in the Little Mos. Some excellent players in the younger groups, along with some beginners who have trouble hitting 3 balls over the net.

'
I have a student who I think is pretty close to being ready for a tournament. He is no phenom but is very athletic, hits the ball well and has a great attitude. I want him to have a great first tournament experience-get his feet wet and see how he likes it. Sounds like they have a first round consolation. With NorCal rolling out 10 and Under he is going to have to start with a red ball/small court which seems like a waste of time and money. But maybe not-maybe it will give him great confidence. 6 months ago at a 10 and under workshop they told us that there was "no mandate" but it seems as though now with the pathway there is a mandate. I would appreciate anyone's experience with all of this!

More hoops to jump through equals more cost for families. Tournaments (even for Juniors) are expensive and time consuming. I see this as a real barrier. I advocate for the kids in the junior program I work for. How about the kids who don't have an advocate? I can't help but get a little cynical here about the "industry within an industry" that I see. But I don't want to miss the forest for a tree here. Tennis is a wonderful thing for kids however it turns out.

Tennis is filled with average kids. Kids who just want play opportunities and to be rewarded for their hard work. Having a guided system with benchmarks will provide that (not to say that this is the right system for it). We need more casual one day events for kids in 10u tennis and Green ball 12s to achieve their benchmarks. It sadly has to be mandated or else lazy directors and pros will not make the changes necessary to grow tennis in the direction of the casual player/average player. Competition for kids needs to be geared for wider range of kids; this compared to the more elite / advanced players it is currently geared towards.

They should forget the age thing. Let the market decide, let the parents and kids decide what tournament type to enter. In FL. many tournaments now have choices depending on the demand.

For example, last weekend we went to a tournament that offered Orange Ball G 10s and B 10s. Yellow ball G 12s, B 12s, G 14s, B 14s. No red or green, just orange and yellow because the tournament director did some trial and error and found out those offerings drew kids.

The orange 10s had some little tikes, some very raw, some very good. A few kids were in the yellow ball 12s that had no business playing yellow yet and they lost 6-0,6-0 in the 1st round. But thats the parents call to put them into that.

The market will decide. Offer the red or orange or green or yellow as the specific market demands. Train the beginners using the red, orange, yellow system in a lesson setting, then let them play the type tournaments they want.

The Norcal rigid age deal is just wrong. A good coach will produce sound players and a bad coach will produce bad players, no matter if you force kids to use red, orange, green, or not.

It will never work unless it is mandated. Most directors and tennis pros are lazy and myopic. They will keep with the statuesque even to the detriment of a larger amount of players--all because it is easier for pros themselves. There is no reason for said pros to train players with the appropriate balls unless it is what they will be using in competition.

'
I have a student who I think is pretty close to being ready for a tournament. He is no phenom but is very athletic, hits the ball well and has a great attitude. I want him to have a great first tournament experience-get his feet wet and see how he likes it. Sounds like they have a first round consolation. With NorCal rolling out 10 and Under he is going to have to start with a red ball/small court which seems like a waste of time and money. But maybe not-maybe it will give him great confidence. 6 months ago at a 10 and under workshop they told us that there was "no mandate" but it seems as though now with the pathway there is a mandate. I would appreciate anyone's experience with all of this!

Unless he can hit topspin groundstrokes with a super high consistency (90/100) hit slice backhands and transition to net for a volley then it will hardly be a waste.

Unless he can hit topspin groundstrokes with a super high consistency (90/100) hit slice backhands and transition to net for a volley then it will hardly be a waste.

-SF

I am familiar with TAUT and have gone to a number of play days and workshops. I utilize a ton of this stuff in practice. I don't believe that a player needs to be as skilled as your description above to find playing half court with red balls unchallenging. Red balls/Orange balls are a great teaching tool. But for talented young players who hit well on the full court I can't see the logic in mandating they play at a artificial low level. The better kids I work with don't want to play with the slow balls. They find it boring. They are flat out too good.

It will never work unless it is mandated. Most directors and tennis pros are lazy and myopic. They will keep with the statuesque even to the detriment of a larger amount of players--all because it is easier for pros themselves. There is no reason for said pros to train players with the appropriate balls unless it is what they will be using in competition.

-SF

The market will decide just fine. It has nothing to do with lazy directors. Down here for 2 years now we have had numerous tournaments that offered every possible combinations called ROYG ball tournaments. These tournaments offer red, orange, yellow, green. These were set up voluntarily with no mandates and pushed by the equipment manufacturers. In many cases there are no entrants into half the offerings.

Some areas do go by age mandates. Kids get bored easily with the red and greens. They simply quit tennis and focus on sports they find more fun. I have seen it happen for several years now.

Coaches have always used low compression balls to teach kids. Before they were available, they would use very old balls with little bounce. Small marked courts have also been used for decades. There is nothing new to this except the mandates.

Make no mistake about it, the equipment manufacturers are behind this, it has nothing to do with a better way to develop kids. Good coaches develop good players, lazy coaches develop bad players, no matter the balls used or any mandates.

I'm sure all these 8 year olds who play yellow ball on full courts would totally dominate these kids..

pffft

That video has been used for a while now to show how great the low balls are. The balls are easy to play with and the kids can have fun with them.

The problem we see is that many kids get fooled and do not realize that tennis is a running game. They get destroyed when they switch to yellow in many cases.

We have kids who play yellow and go 'down' to the green or orange level to compete sometimes. In a week they can easily adjust and win vs the slow ball only kids. But the slow ball kids get slaughtered when they try to move to yellow.

Tennis at the junior level is hard. Its hot, the yellow ball kids move you, they hit high deep topspin. You have to move like a demon to get to balls, you have to have great footwork and be able to cover the court for long rallies.

Many of the low compression ball trained kids are shocked to find out how much they have to move on a full court.

The mini tennis video is cute, but there is no way to know if those kids would bust it on a full court anymore than knowing if a good ping pong player would.

Also, these balls do not magically make coaches better or less lazy. A lazy or bad coach is that way no matter what equipment they use.

I have seen these red, orange, green balls used for years now. Nothing has changed. The coaches who teach bad technique, take short cuts, rush kids into tournaments before they have proper fundamentals....they all still do that with the slower balls.

Good coaches can teach a kid with yellow balls from age 4 if they choose to with proper hand feeds. However, many do choose to use the lower bounce balls for training purposes, for the same reasons they used flat balls or poked holes in balls back in the day before low compression balls were on the market.

But this notion that the slower balls make coaches better is wrong. A lazy coach is not transformed by the equipment. Same with kids. Lazy or disinterested kids who do not want to learn tennis fundamentals are not changed by the balls. If the yellow balls are bouncing over their heads it is because they have not been taught the proper footwork or simply are not interested or too lazy to use the proper footwork.

Also, these balls do not magically make coaches better or less lazy. A lazy or bad coach is that way no matter what equipment they use.

I have seen these red, orange, green balls used for years now. Nothing has changed. The coaches who teach bad technique, take short cuts, rush kids into tournaments before they have proper fundamentals....they all still do that with the slower balls.

Good coaches can teach a kid with yellow balls from age 4 if they choose to with proper hand feeds. However, many do choose to use the lower bounce balls for training purposes, for the same reasons they used flat balls or poked holes in balls back in the day before low compression balls were on the market.

But this notion that the slower balls make coaches better is wrong. A lazy coach is not transformed by the equipment. Same with kids. Lazy or disinterested kids who do not want to learn tennis fundamentals are not changed by the balls. If the yellow balls are bouncing over their heads it is because they have not been taught the proper footwork or simply are not interested or too lazy to use the proper footwork.

Exactly. People don't understand (or see) the benefits of hitting yellow balls. A proper mix makes sense to me, but saying you can't hit a yellow ball until you can slice is freaking ridiculous.

I am familiar with TAUT and have gone to a number of play days and workshops. I utilize a ton of this stuff in practice. I don't believe that a player needs to be as skilled as your description above to find playing half court with red balls unchallenging. Red balls/Orange balls are a great teaching tool. But for talented young players who hit well on the full court I can't see the logic in mandating they play at a artificial low level. The better kids I work with don't want to play with the slow balls. They find it boring. They are flat out too good.

My point is that TAUT is a not a race to hit a decent enough forehand and then move to Yellow balls / 78' ct. It's classic Could vs Should. A player could be on 78' but they should be on the court size that allows them to play and develop a full court game / different skills.

The market will decide just fine. It has nothing to do with lazy directors. Down here for 2 years now we have had numerous tournaments that offered every possible combinations called ROYG ball tournaments. These tournaments offer red, orange, yellow, green. These were set up voluntarily with no mandates and pushed by the equipment manufacturers. In many cases there are no entrants into half the offerings.

Some areas do go by age mandates. Kids get bored easily with the red and greens. They simply quit tennis and focus on sports they find more fun. I have seen it happen for several years now.

Coaches have always used low compression balls to teach kids. Before they were available, they would use very old balls with little bounce. Small marked courts have also been used for decades. There is nothing new to this except the mandates.

Make no mistake about it, the equipment manufacturers are behind this, it has nothing to do with a better way to develop kids. Good coaches develop good players, lazy coaches develop bad players, no matter the balls used or any mandates.

Tennis Coach FLA,

The reason kids are getting bored with red balls is because pros are not teaching them a game with depth; to use different tactics. A player should not have to wait to learn a slice backhand or to chip and charge until the yellow ball and 78' court.

The different divisions will not make unless pros train kids using those balls. many pros are lazy and will keep doing what they have been doing with the yellow ball. I made that point earlier. You might have missed it. Yes. lazy coaches will develop bad player no matter what. That wasn't my point. Lazy pros will not change unless they are forced.

The reason kids are getting bored with red balls is because pros are not teaching them a game with depth; to use different tactics. A player should not have to wait to learn a slice backhand or to chip and charge until the yellow ball and 78' court.

The different divisions will not make unless pros train kids using those balls. many pros are lazy and will keep doing what they have been doing with the yellow ball. I made that point earlier. You might have missed it. Yes. lazy coaches will develop bad player no matter what. That wasn't my point. Lazy pros will not change unless they are forced.

-SF

SF, I can only speak for S. FL. Many weekends we have so much choice all within an hour or so drive. Several ROGY tournaments with every choice, yellow ball 12s with kids from 7-12 playing.

I still see the same exact terrible strokes in the reds and oranges, and I see some very nice strokes in all levels.

I am curious....how does the type of ball "force" a bad coach to change in your mind? To be honest, this one is going right over my head because pros teach the same way, good or bad, no matter if they use balloons or yellow balls. The Spanish ignored the low compression balls and use proper hand feeds to teach even 4 year olds the right swing pattern.

As far as slicing, I addressed that in my last post. Unfortunately teaching a slice too early results in WAY more problems down the line. More times than not the slice becomes the go to backhand at the expense of a solid top spin backhand.

The only difference I have seen in a few years of ROGY balls is that now 5-6 year olds with bad strokes now are rushed into local tournaments.

Euros are patient and use the low compression balls to teach the kids the right way.....American parents use them as a reason to toss 5 year olds into tennis tournaments.

Well, what country should we model our junior development pathway around? The ITF does not allow 10-and-under children to play international events. To put everything in perspective, baseball is on the decline in the U.S. Everyone has heard of the Little League World Series for 12-and-under players. Of the 7,000 kids who have participated in the Little League World Series in the last 60 years, only 31 have ever played in Major League Baseball and no Little League World Series pitcher have ever pitched in the major leagues.

In tracking participants of one Little League World Series team, fewer than half of the kids on the Spring, Texas, finalist team in 1995 played high school baseball.

See the parallels?

All of the above information and more can be found in the book "Positioning Youth Tennis For Success," available through the USTA. This is a must read for any realistic coach or parent.