Ok well this just shows my ignorance towards druid, hadnt realised this was entirely single target. You were clearly very valuable to this fight then, I'm intrigued now. I've always played inquisitor and still find it competitive but nothing compared to that. I'm assuming you are at least using a druid macro? I once tried druid manually, sure it does a little more but crikey you sure need to know what you're doing.

Not possible, I thought Clerics is the worstest class in Rift ever according to this forum.

A single boss fight doesn't determine the total value of a class. Cleric is broken in PvP with half their souls running out of mana and having limited play without the eternal. The scaling of the class is so bad early on that they have a huge dps, hps deficit and a reason why you get legendaries that simply add % damage increases. They are not legendaries like other classes which come with added utility and mobility and increasing the effective playability of the class in many different scenarios.

You are basically UNDERPOWERED up until you get the last eternal and indefinitely crippled in pvp. Warrior, Primalist and Rogue are just much better choices. They are also the most countered healers in PvP and the most susceptible to cc with one charge and having their damage erased from a cleanse bot. Consider the amount of debuffs and buffs you have to track with shaman and then consider how susceptible they are when they can't stick to a target because the specs the other classes have enormous amounts of repelling abilities and slow and teleports and mobility. A single 15 sec. cd charge, no pull, a slow that isn't even off the global cooldown etc. You would think that they are naturally faster and that what makes them good but that is fake news because every class is pretty damn fast have teleports or they can stun you disable you all in the same soul or they have a pull and multiple leap backs with charges.

Save yourself some buyers remorse and play the class the devs worked on the most in this expansion which was rogue, warrior and primalist. Don't be a person who doesnt pvp so does care. Be the person who rather play a class that is great all around in PvE with the option to dominate in PvP as well even if you don't PvP.

Ok, let's try this again, I don't think there is any arguing with the following information:

1. Druid is stupidly strong atm, despite it's flaws, it's actually a really nice rotation when combined with macros and potentially strongest ST dps in game.
2. I believe cleric is the only class currently where 3 of its damage souls are all competitive in ST (All above 1.2-1.3 million on dummy self buffed).
3. Shaman is currently one of the highest AoE specs in game when it comes to 3+ adds
4. Let's not forget to highlight how good they are at tanking, ST heals and AoE heals, after all, when you hear the word cleric, you don't automatically think a damage class.
5. I do not play this game to be strong in PvP, so I would prefer you didn't suggest these absurd things, PvP in this game has a tiny proportion of the player base now, and you need to accept this.

Sure, you've had terrible experiences with balance in PvP and that's a shame, but that does not give you reason to hate on Clerics, and hate on the Cleric player base for being so blasť about it's "underpowered" nature. It's insulting, and quite immature of you.

I think it's time you stop being so blasť about sticking to Rift PvP and move on to a more suitable PvP game.

Ok, let's try this again, I don't think there is any arguing with the following information:

1. Druid is stupidly strong atm, despite it's flaws, it's actually a really nice rotation when combined with macros and potentially strongest ST dps in game.
2. I believe cleric is the only class currently where 3 of its damage souls are all competitive in ST (All above 1.2-1.3 million on dummy self buffed).
3. Shaman is currently one of the highest AoE specs in game when it comes to 3+ adds
4. Let's not forget to highlight how good they are at tanking, ST heals and AoE heals, after all, when you hear the word cleric, you don't automatically think a damage class.
5. I do not play this game to be strong in PvP, so I would prefer you didn't suggest these absurd things, PvP in this game has a tiny proportion of the player base now, and you need to accept this.

Sure, you've had terrible experiences with balance in PvP and that's a shame, but that does not give you reason to hate on Clerics, and hate on the Cleric player base for being so blasť about it's "underpowered" nature. It's insulting, and quite immature of you.

I think it's time you stop being so blasť about sticking to Rift PvP and move on to a more suitable PvP game.

End of Story.

Just no. https://prancingturtle.com/Session/BossFight/145
Read the data carefully and you can see you are wrong in almost every statement you made. Best classes are Rogue and Primalist. Shaman can't compare to aoe of MM/NB from range. Best classes scale off of weapon and AP. This is something that has been stated over and over for about a year.
Warning a player about a bad investment is doing a good deed. Telling people that cleric is "master class" and comparable is like telling a person a sweet lie. It is just something they want to hear even though you know it is not true. Cleric needs a ton of work done to the class and the game itself have to stop favoring leather and dex drops. Also, from a gearing point you have option to have 2 classes with dex essences share same source and easiest to get best in slot fragments. It is a no brainer that primalist or rogue are the top 2 classes to consider for anything in this expansion. Before and after.https://prancingturtle.com/Session/BossFight/163

I am even giving you the most dumb down boss mechanics to show even in fight which is basically a dummy boss druid is not competitive with them.

As for PvP. Rift is introduced as a faction vs. faction game so it is no surprise that PvP is central theme of the game in the eyes of new players. And every successful MMO that has 100K active users or more has decent PvP. The top 10 MMOs woouldn't consider itself and MMO if it didn't have a decent PvP environment actually.

Because of poor scaling until you get the last eternal cleric is really not competitive. So warrior is better positioned and much easier to fix as it doesn't need a bandaid eternal to fix its class like cleric does. I am seeing a few people swear that cleric is top dps and is OP or top HPS and they don't provide any data. I am not sure how they come about this conclusion.Now they realize that there is a way to check if they are saying misinformation.

PVP

Defiler is not bad in PVP (use the druid 0pt legendary). It's not terribly bursty so you won't get a lot of KBs but the self healing will win you most 1v1 battles, so it works well for solo objectives.

Druid is fantastic until you have to switch targets... wish there were a cleaner way to handle that.

1. "Shaman can't compare to aoe of MM/NB from range". I'm not sure you meant this, as it doesn't make sense.

2. I said nothing about them being a master class, I inferred they were in a good place. Which is really important atm, considering we have no class developer as it stands, and therefore we must ask ourselves, are we in a crisis? No, not really.

3. "Warning a player about a bad investment is doing a good deed", I would suggest a cleric to anyone, because it's enjoyable, varied, and has so much going for it. I certainly wouldn't argue that top of dps is everything.

4. "the game itself have to stop favoring leather and dex drops", well I never mentioned gear, this is a different topic, and hasn't directly affected me too much.

5. Linking dps meters is personally unreliable to reflex the current 99% population. What's top on the top 1% is very different to whats top with the other 99%. You ask for data, rough data is right in front of you every time you join a pug or your own guilds raids and other guilds raids. It's experience. On top of that, cleave is a massive contributor to many of these boss fights. I would personally like to see a rogue dummy vs a druid and really see what comes out on top. I'm not saying druid is good in a raid scene, far from, but I was arguing they were almost top in ST bar primalist.

Also it comes back to the old debate, is it underpowered, or is something else overpowered, I will always go with overpowered, as if you scale everything up rather than down raids become even more easier than they currently are. Primalists have always been OP despite numerous nerf, that ones just a long battle.

6. My response was more referring to the issue I have with players actually flaming other players for being too passive and the cause for the reason clerics are in such a bad state. I can't let that go past.

7. Don't get me wrong, if PvP is strong, I would enjoy it, but I'm definitely in the 90% player pool right now that say they play this game for PvE now and if they wanted that PvP experience they could go else where, as demanding Trion to do something about PvP is pretty pathetic at this point (I mean come on, you need separate gear anyway!).

Also if you're going to state everything I said is wrong, you better be ready to break down everything I said.

Just no. https://prancingturtle.com/Session/BossFight/145
Read the data carefully and you can see you are wrong in almost every statement you made. Best classes are Rogue and Primalist. Shaman can't compare to aoe of MM/NB from range. Best classes scale off of weapon and AP. This is something that has been stated over and over for about a year.
Warning a player about a bad investment is doing a good deed. Telling people that cleric is "master class" and comparable is like telling a person a sweet lie. It is just something they want to hear even though you know it is not true. Cleric needs a ton of work done to the class and the game itself have to stop favoring leather and dex drops. Also, from a gearing point you have option to have 2 classes with dex essences share same source and easiest to get best in slot fragments. It is a no brainer that primalist or rogue are the top 2 classes to consider for anything in this expansion. Before and after.https://prancingturtle.com/Session/BossFight/163

I am even giving you the most dumb down boss mechanics to show even in fight which is basically a dummy boss druid is not competitive with them.

As for PvP. Rift is introduced as a faction vs. faction game so it is no surprise that PvP is central theme of the game in the eyes of new players. And every successful MMO that has 100K active users or more has decent PvP. The top 10 MMOs woouldn't consider itself and MMO if it didn't have a decent PvP environment actually.

Because of poor scaling until you get the last eternal cleric is really not competitive. So warrior is better positioned and much easier to fix as it doesn't need a bandaid eternal to fix its class like cleric does. I am seeing a few people swear that cleric is top dps and is OP or top HPS and they don't provide any data. I am not sure how they come about this conclusion.Now they realize that there is a way to check if they are saying misinformation.

I was looking through the links you posted. It took me to Beligosh in TDNM initially, is that the fight you are referencing? That's not a very good test since that fight is unique in its phases and favors burst dps with cooldowns.

If you look at Azranel, in my opinion this is a fairer comparison to a raid encounter for all classes, All time single target DPS for Rogue is 1,507,743 and Cleric is 1,505,336. Overall dps in this fight really doesn't mean much unless your cleaving down the towers which isn't necessary. Damage to the boss is what matters and in a pure single target comparison cleric and rogue are pretty much level, warriors and mages are behind and prims are ahead. According to Prancing Turtle data as a base anyway, which does not include everything.

I was looking through the links you posted. It took me to Beligosh in TDNM initially, is that the fight you are referencing? That's not a very good test since that fight is unique in its phases and favors burst dps with cooldowns.

If you look at Azranel, in my opinion this is a fairer comparison to a raid encounter for all classes, All time single target DPS for Rogue is 1,507,743 and Cleric is 1,505,336. Overall dps in this fight really doesn't mean much unless your cleaving down the towers which isn't necessary. Damage to the boss is what matters and in a pure single target comparison cleric and rogue are pretty much level, warriors and mages are behind and prims are ahead. According to Prancing Turtle data as a base anyway, which does not include everything.

If you look at Azranel, in my opinion this is a fairer comparison to a raid encounter for all classes, All time single target DPS for Rogue is 1,507,743 and Cleric is 1,505,336. Overall dps in this fight really doesn't mean much unless your cleaving down the towers which isn't necessary. Damage to the boss is what matters and in a pure single target comparison cleric and rogue are pretty much level, warriors and mages are behind and prims are ahead. According to Prancing Turtle data as a base anyway, which does not include everything.

Not even so, I spent a good minute or more disconnected from the boss thanks to defensive spin. Druid does not have the tools to do damage from ranged like a rogue.

I'll be hard pressed to find any rogue doing 1.7+ ST on a dummy over several minutes. 61 NB ST is pretty strong but their strength lies in their near lossless cleaving.

Just no. https://prancingturtle.com/Session/BossFight/145
Read the data carefully and you can see you are wrong in almost every statement you made. Best classes are Rogue and Primalist. Shaman can't compare to aoe of MM/NB from range. Best classes scale off of weapon and AP. This is something that has been stated over and over for about a year.

Primalists have significant advantage on short fights. Linking minute long parses on super farm content doesn't support your claim very strong although I'll admit primalists reign supreme in dps all things considered. Have a look here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VcYVxcY6Mv4&t=62s I'm able to burst 3.2m over 30 seconds - that's due to being able to pre-load our strongest cooldown 30 seconds before a fight to maximize it's up time during flaring/lava.

I was looking through the links you posted. It took me to Beligosh in TDNM initially, is that the fight you are referencing?

The link I posted doesn't take you to Beligosh. Look at it again. I used the ultimate dummy boss from T1, BERUHAST, because it is basically a tank and spank to eliminate any mechanics just so it was a non factor. Cleric CLEARLY still not worth investing time into in this expansion. It is better to tell the truth. Rogue and Primalist are at the moment the best classes. And it is not easy to multiclass so if someone chooses cleric they are stuck or quit the game. People start having advantage over cleric as soon as they hit level 70 and in end game raiding they are just mediocre. It would be okay to be mediocre in raiding and totally ripping players apart in PvP like they did to warrior back in NT but with paragon but in case of cleric they don't get that luxury. They get to be mediocre in PvE and pretty much non viable in PvP.

Wynford is the cleric doing uber top dps at the zone event in one of my videos. I leveled my cleric with a similar spec,couldn't figure out why no one else was running it,till I saw Wynford at ZE kickin butt. Funny that everyone was saying clerics are in a bad place a month back (I wasn't one of them lol).

Primalists have significant advantage on short fights. Linking minute long parses on super farm content doesn't support your claim very strong although I'll admit primalists reign supreme in dps all things considered. Have a look here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VcYVxcY6Mv4&t=62s I'm able to burst 3.2m over 30 seconds - that's due to being able to pre-load our strongest cooldown 30 seconds before a fight to maximize it's up time during flaring/lava.

It supports my claim just fine. The super farm content is what the game is mostly about for 90% of players. Trying to top dps on a dummy that has no mechanics is not. And I also linked T2 fight just because I predetermined that someone would bring up that fact in my second link by the way. Check it out.