Oxford Bill

Actually, just searched and found there was also a National Day of Reason (last week, 4/27). Am sorry I missed it, but not hard to see why with absolutely no coverage from the supposedly "liberal" media. Was aware of the rally, but wasn't able to make it to DC for it. Also, notably missed by that same old "liberal" media.

Still a bit lost as to why/how any could be offended by this.

Disp & others - Reason is a bad thing? Reason, one of the primary tenets of classical philosophy and held in high regard by the founders and framers of the Constitution (Jefferson, Madison & Adams in particular). This deserves less recognition or honor from our government than a chance to flaunt prayer in the face of godless communists (as initiated) or as a platform for those who choose to place their particular verses from the bible in higher regard than others?

You're absolutely right, PA2SC!! And I think I'm going to follow the course of the man who enshrined Christianity as THE religion of the Western World - Emperor Constantine. He brought Christianity to the forefront as the religion of Rome, but waited a good 20+ years to convert himself - shortly before his death. Hard to say for certain why he did, but most historians agree that it seems he felt he had some good sinning to do before taking that final step. Is it any wonder that what became the Catholic Church (and only accepted form of Christianity for the next 1,200 or so years) is so unbelievably hypocritical?

Now wait a second here.... Going on about a National Day of Prayer is fine. Have at it. I don't see the need and am disgusted because it was founded through the McCarthyism that led this country down a very ugly path for decades - NOT because I think a National Day of Prayer (even if sanctioned by government) is necessarily a breach of church & state separation.

BUT... you're laughing, posting snide comments and bally-hooing a National Day of Reason??? What would be wrong with that? You're really saying right here in black & white that reason is a bad thing? Or, that it shouldn't receive the same consideration as faith from anyone - or our government? God help us all!!!

And, there IS a National Day of Prayer. It is today!!! Do some of you people ever read the articles you post comments on?

Disp - What are you talking about? Prayers are regularly said in PA State House and have been for years. I'm not really a fan of this, but they will (and regularly do) whatever they like in both chambers.

What part don't YOU see. Can you find PCN on the TV? Maybe easier online: http://pcntv.com/

Thanks for pointing this out skimmer. But even with errors in grammar aside, it's not hard to see that many commenting here about the need for Voter ID would not have the intelligence to vote if even the simplest of tests were in place. Fortunately for them, the Constitution prevents such a test. Unfortunately for us, the Constitution also disallows a test to show a voter's grasp of reality & facts as opposed to rumor & paranoia!

Really, Jason.... I think pishaw may be on to something that could work for you. No schools, no roads, no tax money to pay for things you don't want or need. Throw in a little fundemental religion of your choosing and you're on the exact same political philosophy as the Taliban.

I sincerely wish there were a way to give you, and others who think (and rant) in a similar fashion what you would like - total anarchy and no cost. Tell you what. If you get a bunch of like minded people togethere and petition the state for your own little enclave - I'll even lend support and help you fund raise. Only condition I ask is that you go there, and never come out.

Me? I'd rather have society and the benefits of it. That, like anything else, costs money. If you wanna dance, you gottta pay the piper. Same as anything, anywhere. That's not to say that there aren't wastes that could & should be cut back, but eliminating public education? Are you just having a bad day or are you truly that anti-social?

Often read similar, but never surprised! It's not really what you think or others think should be necessary to do to be able to vote. There are also a lot of people I have problems with choosing the leader of the free world. But, you and I don't get to decide. The Constitution is clear on it.

What fraudulent votes will it suppress? Have you been the one to find them? You should contact the state AG office soon, because they're going to really need that evidence in court.

It will suppress votes from those who don't have "valid" ID, but also probably many thousands of others. The checking process (and sure to come confusion based on how the test run went last week) will add time to every voter processed. More time equals longer lines & longer waits. THAT will surely suppress votes from legitimate, ID carrying voters in future elections. You don't think so?

OK.... but riddle me this.... how can ACORN be a big part of the problem when the organization has not existed for years?

How many votes did Mickey Mouse or Elvis Presley make? Why would ACORN encourage their workers to do this (esentially telling their workers to steal from them, because pay was based on number of registrations turned in)?

Maybe you should pray for a little knowledge? Or better yet, find out for real what you are typing about instead of praying and trying to decipher the intent of your particular version of the Almighty.

A NATIONAL ID? Really? I thought most people who are for Voter ID are concerned about how much big-brother is already watching them. You're saying that every voter nationwide should be fingerprinted and required to hold a federally issued ID to correct a voter fraud problem that doesn't even exist?

I'm glad I don't have a beer or two and come on here. I don't think I could stop laughing enough to type with a little bit of a buzz on.

I don't think anyone has said the Constitution says anywhere that you do not have to show ID to vote. And, I'm pretty certain it says no such thing. What it does say is that voters can not be disenfranchised by unreasonable procedures - e.g. requiring specific ID to vote.

Many IDs people use every day (for many of the things mentioned thorughout these comments) are not valid forms of ID at the polls - mostly becuase of lack of an expiration date. To require people to get a specific ID, a process that is often far out of the way for many people, would probably be considered an undo burden by the courts.

As far as your ID required to purchase a gun, you may want to look at the stark differences between the two. Purchasing guns is not a right guaranteed by the Constitution (actually in part because of laws requiring purchase of arms in many states and by the federal govt. for a time). Ownership could be considered to be, but even that is not very clear in the 2nd Amendment. Guns kill people (or if you would rather, people with guns kill people), and have frequently over the years. Death of innocents (or even not too innocents) usually takes precedence over voter fraud - especially voter fraud that does not exist - or at least has yet to be shown to exist.

You guys are absolutely right.... It must be happening because you think it is. Why would anyone need proof or eveidence of anything as long as those who think they know better, know that something is true.

Funny I guess how this is such a big part of this issue and so many that the newest right wing of American politics (Tea Party, et al) cling to. Don't think we really need a full list here, but some of my personal favorites.... Obama is not a US citizen (though documentation has proven he is since before his election), our Fed Govt is going broke on bailouts (even though all money paid out for bailouts is either already paid back - or being paid back on schedule), Hussein had WMDs but he hid them very well, moved them or whatever other story (where is a shred of evidence), gas extraction from Marcellus Shale creates jobs for Pennsylvanians (actually this one is true if you are a waiter or maid at a hotel - but that won't last for long).

OK... enough of that for now, but could we try to stick to facts & reality just a little bit here?

Great points Prace, unfortunately your facts are wrong (as seems to be the case so often here).

I find the law disgusting for many reasons, but that aside, you CANNOT get an ID at a Photo ID center. That is a big part of the problem with the "fix" put in place for the problem that doesn't exist. You must go to a PENNDOT licensing center whihc are spread far & wide across the state.

I guess you, and many others ranting about how easy it is to get an ID, don't realize this. With this known, maybe you can clear this up for me.... How should voters who obviously don't have a drivers license get the 30 or so miles many must go to get a valid form of ID? OR, would you suggest that the state pony up even more money it doesn't have to open more licensing centers?

I agree it shouldn't be mandated - at elast in theory. But, we should let it slide when one municiplaity out of 20 has more than 1/2 of the inciedents that PSP have to respond to? When their population has tripled over past 30 years while other munis have only gone up 20 - 50%?

That means my tax dollars are paying for their increased police coverage, while at the same time cutting into the coverage I should be receiveing. Where is the common sense here? And, what is it dictating if not that some municipalities should be forced to set up their own police force or pay a surcharge?

OK.... so tell me how this works for the guy I'm going to try to take to PENNDOT for his photo ID.

He's a Vietnam Vet. Doesn't have a driver's license becasue he can't drive do to injuries sustained defending his country. He limps 200' to the polling place (as he has to everywhere else he goes), but closest place to get voter ID is 28 miles away on country roads. He does most of his business in the borough he lives in, and catches rides with neghbors to the same grocery store (1 mile away) that most shop at. His VA ID card with no expiration date will not be accepted as valid ID to vote.

You're saying that if he can get out to vote he can get out to get an ID? Does that mean he should hobble the 28 miles on country roads (actually 56 round trip), or are you saying PENNDOT should put an ID facility in his town?