BiPolar Barer wrote: Everyone's greedy and anyone who talks about someone being evil for being greedy are probably the biggest greedy bastards of all. Say I fucked your girlfriends and she benefitted from the experience. Say it furthered her spiritual development and shit. She became a better person after I laid it on her. Would you hate her for it? What is the nature of that hate. I think it may be greed. You want her for yourself and you aren't really interested in spiritual development or else you wouldnt care if I fucked her. I know I will get hated on for this comment, but I really want to see the responses and shit. Please don't cop out with some dogmatic shit about being a do gooder. Hip Hop is a type of expression, and anything that affects hip hop is relative to it.

Ayn Rand fits nowhere. She was a miserable piece of shit, and a reason for any man to switch teams.

Where does her philosophy fit? Well, in the socially conscious scheme of hip hop music, she fits nowhere. Her ideas are repugnant to real progress when real people are involved with real power and real factors like real disparity in social standing and a real, unpredictable economy are in play.

As far as I'm concerned, the only way she could possibly fit into hip hop is on Jeru's "Da Bitchez."

Fri Oct 18, 2002 12:57 am

August Spies

Joined: 09 Aug 2002
Posts: 1979
Location: D.C.

"Everyone's greedy and anyone who talks about someone being evil for being greedy are probably the biggest greedy bastards of all. "

People have tendencies towards greed. This is true. The problem with capitalists, imo, is that this is all they look at.

People have greed, people have love, people have hate, people have cooperation and people have a fucking lot of otehr emotions. Greed is not the only value in play here. So what does this mean? Systems do not CREATE things. Communism doesn't create love, capitalism does not create greed etc... However, systems can PROMOTE different values. It is clear that capitalism PROMOTES and REWARDS greed over otehr values (if this isn't clear ill try explaining more what i mean).

I want a system that promotes other values. No, greed will not go away, but it doesn't need to be the driving force.

2 more cents.

Fri Oct 18, 2002 1:15 am

BiPolar Barer

Joined: 17 Oct 2002
Posts: 175
Location: Louisville, Kentucky

man, just when I thought I was going to give up on forums and shit this non-prophet shit saves the day. Thanks for the responses and shit. I get accused of circular logic all the time. Sorry for being pedantic. did I use that right?

Fri Oct 18, 2002 3:20 am

BiPolar Barer

Joined: 17 Oct 2002
Posts: 175
Location: Louisville, Kentucky

So check it out...my dad lives and dies by her shit and I always thought of him as being gustopo like as far as his disposition. I read "Atlas Shrugged", and it was entertaining. I read really so I could understand my dad a bit more b/c I always thought he was a jerk. Now I just know why I think hes a jerk. Thanks for the responses sorry if my ignorance on the subject offended anyone.

Thad

Fri Oct 18, 2002 3:25 am

BiPolar Barer

Joined: 17 Oct 2002
Posts: 175
Location: Louisville, Kentucky

I am with you August Spies as far as a wanting a sytem that acknowledges greed as part of the human maching but doesn't use it as the driving force in the system. :twisted:

Fri Oct 18, 2002 3:28 am

BiPolar Barer

Joined: 17 Oct 2002
Posts: 175
Location: Louisville, Kentucky

Okay with that being said I will shut the fuck up about this shit and talk hip hop. When is Sage going to do another show in Louisville for christ's sake?

Fri Oct 18, 2002 3:30 am

Reggie

Joined: 01 Jul 2002
Posts: 5766
Location: Queens, NYC

I think Ayn Rand is an asshole. And if you think that her philosophy doesn't completely support capitalism, then you need to re-read it more critically.

Fri Oct 18, 2002 6:53 am

BiPolar Barer

Joined: 17 Oct 2002
Posts: 175
Location: Louisville, Kentucky

who the hell said her shit doesn't support capitalism that is like saying ike turner doesn't support beating woman

Fri Oct 18, 2002 7:02 am

Reggie

Joined: 01 Jul 2002
Posts: 5766
Location: Queens, NYC

BiPolar Barer wrote: who the hell said her shit doesn't support capitalism that is like saying ike turner doesn't support beating woman

BiPolar Barer wrote: Has anyone read any of her shit. I am finishing up "Atlas Shrugged" and it has broaden my perspective on those hated capitalistic fucks. I now have a little empathy which is against my narcissistic makeup. I want some serious responses fellas. How do you feel about the virtue of greed and selfishness? How does this play out in the hip hop culture. Come on smarty pants

Fri Oct 18, 2002 7:17 am

BiPolar Barer

Joined: 17 Oct 2002
Posts: 175
Location: Louisville, Kentucky

I don't know Reggie what your point is really. In both comments I say she supports capitalistism if not directly than indirectly.

Fri Oct 18, 2002 6:04 pm

Petrouchka Rasputin

Joined: 30 Jun 2002
Posts: 852

Greed may be related to the invisible hand, but that word has unfair connotations that don't apply to the idea. That it refers to are the natural individual/corporate reactions that cause markets to move towards equilibrium in almost any circumstance, making it so that problems in the marketplace generally resolve themselves without any deliberate intervention.

Greed seems to vary in degrees so you are right, it has unfair connotations when connecting it to Smith's "Invisible Hand". I was just saying it always is the driving force behind the market...its degree can vary depending on each individual. Some people take in consideration the good of society and other don't like those enron shitheads.[/quote]

Fri Oct 18, 2002 6:20 pm

Petrouchka Rasputin

Joined: 30 Jun 2002
Posts: 852

Well, yeah. I guess you might say the invisible hand refers to legal greed. But executive corruption such as that at Enron is a totally different matter, and it actually works contrary to market forces because the false statistics and reports led to investment that wouldn't have been made under normal circumstances. No one would have bought shares in Enron if they'd known what was really happening.

i hope you don't think I condone enron's behavior. It was an act of pure evil. When you know what you are doing is going to hurt tons of people and you proceed to carry out the action you got some loud ass demons controlling your ass