Forum Help

If you want to ask about changing your username, have login problems, have password problems or a technical issue please email forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com

Posting help:

If you want to ask why a word can't be typed, your signature's been changed, or a post has been deleted see the Forum Rules. If you don't find the answer you can ask forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com though due to volumes we can't guarantee replies.

My husband lost his HSBC visa debit card on a recent business trip to Las Vegas. He did not use this HSBC card whilst there as he has a work American Express card that he tries to use for all expenses when travelling with work. The following day when he discovered it missing he reported it to HSBC. He returned to the UK the next day & discovered approx £1500 of fraudulent transactions had taken place before he reported it missing (all in the space of about 3 hours), mainly signed for transactions in various supermarkets, but there were 2 cash withdrawals that apparently used the correct pin. His card was not copied, & no-one saw him use the pin as he did not use it, he definitely did not write down or give his pin to anyone. He also has witnesses who were with him at a conference during the time these transactions took place. HSBC have stated that they do not believe him to be a victim of fraud and will not refund any of the money. We have appealed giving all the detail in writing to them but they will not change their decision, they have said we must now go to the financial ombudsman. Help! We are at a loss what we can do, my husband did not carry out any of these transactions including the cash withdrawals with a pin so how could it happen & how is it possible to prove he is telling the truth? Has anybody had a similar experience? Any advice before we approach the financial ombudsman?

1974 as part of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 - and the world of plastic we have today was probably never anticipated. A classic example of nobody really noticing what the law meant in a modern context.

I think it "made sense" to people that if they were careless with a credit card then the bank could make them pay. Also the banks created T+Cs to make it look that way. They generally said something to the effect of "once you let us know you'll only be responsible for up to £50" when the true position is that whether you tell them or not, legally you are only responsible for up to £50 and then only if you're grossly negligent. (Of course you are responsible if you are fraudulent or you have authorised someone else to use the card.)

When I lost a card, I was asked by MBNA "is it possible anybody knew your PIN". Of course I answered no, and there was no problem (I later found the card). But paradoxically people might be in a stronger position if they say something like "Well, yes. I have a terrible memory so I wrote the number in my diary and that was with the card. I am terribly stupid. Sorry." If the card is used fraudulently, the bank can't really claim you used when all along it is possible is that somebody got the number. On the other hand, if you swear blind that nobody could have got your PIN and in fact the card does get used with a PIN, the bank could well conclude that you must have used the PIN.

Long ago I had cash withdrawn from my bank account using a pin number and debit card - the problem was, I was 150 miles away and so was my card. At first the bank said it had to have been done by a family member of someone I'd revealed my pin to. I asked them to tell me at what branch and at what time the withdrawal was made. Fortunately for me I was able to show them that at that very time I was in Royal Lemington Spa, in a branch of that bank, asking for money over the counter because I didn't even know my pin number. That wont help you but at least it shows that it can happen. I also had my card cloned in Japan and used for transactions in another Japanese city and then USA. Bank spotted it but couldn't get in touch with me in Japan. As it was, I only used it once - for my hotel deposit. Did you husband stay in a hotel in Vegas? Did he have to give a CC impression for security?
Good luck anyway

It's scary that the banks can just rub their hands of any fraud if the pin was used with the amount of card skimming going on. Even just by using your card in a shop cctv can easily record your pin up. This video I saw a while back for example https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=fN27hTrltf0 it's shocking how close the cctv can zoom in to pick your pin up. A invasion of privacy I'd say! Doesn't take much for a doggy shop to replace their card reader with a skimming one and have a camera zoomed in to pick the pin up. (I'm not saying the YouTube link shop is a scam by filming the chip n pin reader but just highlights what shops can do if they wanted to)

Certainly made me think twice about paying with card in unknown places and where possible I'll use contactless to avoid entering my pin if it allows.

It's scary that the banks can just rub their hands of any fraud if the pin was used with the amount of card skimming going on. Even just by using your card in a shop cctv can easily record your pin up. This video I saw a while back for example https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=fN27hTrltf0 it's shocking how close the cctv can zoom in to pick your pin up. A invasion of privacy I'd say! Doesn't take much for a doggy shop to replace their card reader with a skimming one and have a camera zoomed in to pick the pin up. (I'm not saying the YouTube link shop is a scam by filming the chip n pin reader but just highlights what shops can do if they wanted to)

Certainly made me think twice about paying with card in unknown places and where possible I'll use contactless to avoid entering my pin if it allows.

This just isn't true. If your PIN is skimmed you weren't negligent and aren't liable! You may have a fight with your bank, but take that fight to court.

It's also why contactless (with No CVM or with CDCVM, not with Online PIN) or chip and signature are actually safer in one significant way... A PIN capture device can't be used with a stolen card/chip (yes there have been cases of fraudsters in Brazil stealing just the chip) or a magstripe clone (in a magstripe ATM) to steal money from an ATM.

It's also why contactless (with No CVM or with CDCVM, not with Online PIN) or chip and signature are actually safer in one significant way... A PIN capture device can't be used with a stolen card/chip (yes there have been cases of fraudsters in Brazil stealing just the chip) or a magstripe clone (in a magstripe ATM) to steal money from an ATM.

My husband lost his HSBC visa debit card on a recent business trip to Las Vegas. He did not use this HSBC card whilst there as he has a work American Express card that he tries to use for all expenses when travelling with work. The following day when he discovered it missing he reported it to HSBC. He returned to the UK the next day & discovered approx £1500 of fraudulent transactions had taken place before he reported it missing (all in the space of about 3 hours), mainly signed for transactions in various supermarkets, but there were 2 cash withdrawals that apparently used the correct pin. His card was not copied, & no-one saw him use the pin as he did not use it, he definitely did not write down or give his pin to anyone. He also has witnesses who were with him at a conference during the time these transactions took place. HSBC have stated that they do not believe him to be a victim of fraud and will not refund any of the money. We have appealed giving all the detail in writing to them but they will not change their decision, they have said we must now go to the financial ombudsman. Help! We are at a loss what we can do, my husband did not carry out any of these transactions including the cash withdrawals with a pin so how could it happen & how is it possible to prove he is telling the truth? Has anybody had a similar experience? Any advice before we approach the financial ombudsman?

I am the victim of debit card fraud and it feels like being physically mugged. Itís not a laughing matter! I worked out how they did it and it was simply someone monitoring my behaviour over time. I used a gym which had a four digit combination lock which took a random number each time a user chose to ďhireĒ it. This was at a gym. I rarely use PIN at ATMís as I prefer digit transactions ie Apple Pay & only kept a debit card as a back up. Sometimes I was aware that I had chosen my PIN number as a lock code. Silly but it happened. The thief & fraudster must have taken note and had a lucky day. They even stole and used my card within a hourís window when they knew I was working out!

I am the victim of debit card fraud and it feels like being physically mugged. It!!!8217;s not a laughing matter! I worked out how they did it and it was simply someone monitoring my behaviour over time. I used a gym which had a four digit combination lock which took a random number each time a user chose to !!!8220;hire!!!8221; it. This was at a gym. I rarely use PIN at ATM!!!8217;s as I prefer digit transactions ie Apple Pay & only kept a debit card as a back up. Sometimes I was aware that I had chosen my PIN number as a lock code. Silly but it happened. The thief & fraudster must have taken note and had a lucky day. They even stole and used my card within a hour!!!8217;s window when they knew I was working out!

They took 2 out of 4 bank cards from my wallet and even swapped out my SIM card with one from the same network provider. They left everything else in place (including quite an expensive watch) and re-locked the locker in the hope I wouldn't notice the robbery.

Using my SIM card in another phone they were able to respond positively to fraud alert texts sent by my card providers. Various banks offer basic text services to detail balances, recent transaction etc. Using this information they were able begin a reset process on my Internet Banking profiles too. Thankfully I noticed before they inflicted a huge amount of damage.

It was quite the wake-up call...

Credit where it's due - HSBC have been really good with my case and swiftly refunded the money.

How this site works

We think it's important you understand the strengths and limitations of the site. We're a journalistic website and aim to provide the best MoneySaving guides, tips, tools and techniques, but can't guarantee to be perfect, so do note you use the information at your own risk and we can't accept liability if things go wrong.

This info does not constitute financial advice, always do your own research on top to ensure it's right for your specific circumstances and remember we focus on rates not service.

Do note, while we always aim to give you accurate product info at the point of publication, unfortunately price and terms of products and deals can always be changed by the provider afterwards, so double check first.

We don't as a general policy investigate the solvency of companies mentioned (how likely they are to go bust), but there is a risk any company can struggle and it's rarely made public until it's too late (see the Section 75 guide for protection tips).

We often link to other websites, but we can't be responsible for their content.

Always remember anyone can post on the MSE forums, so it can be very different from our opinion.

MoneySavingExpert.com is part of the MoneySupermarket Group, but is entirely editorially independent. Its stance of putting consumers first is protected and enshrined in the legally-binding MSE Editorial Code.