Kabul, Afghanistan
France is leaving Afghanistan. Though President Obama has committed to reducing America’s footprint in Afghanistan beginning July 2011, the withdrawal of another ally is likely to add an additional layer of challenge to maneuver that reduction. And the timing of the announcement has put France’s decision under some scrutiny.

The French surrender myth possibly the most pathetic attempt at trying to character assasinate a western country that has repeatedly ignored the US and maintained some level of sovereignty for themselves.

You do they've won a majority of the wars they've been in, right?

Speedy

10-29-2010, 04:56 PM

You do they've won a majority of the wars they've been in, right?

Which ones?

KhrushchevsShoe

10-29-2010, 05:01 PM

Which ones?

http://www.militaryfactory.com/battles/french_military_victories.asp

namvet

10-29-2010, 05:03 PM

The French surrender myth possibly the most pathetic attempt at trying to character assasinate a western country that has repeatedly ignored the US and maintained some level of sovereignty for themselves.

You do they've won a majority of the wars they've been in, right?

well I knew in ww1 and ww2 we should have let the french slide down the stool. and to think all those allied soliders that died for france??? it just wasn't worth it Ivan

Rockntractor

10-29-2010, 05:05 PM

http://www.militaryfactory.com/battles/french_military_victories.asp

That is a load!

obx

10-29-2010, 05:23 PM

I think I read where the only real war they won was a civil war, so the French actually managed to lose to themselves.

JB

10-29-2010, 08:23 PM

...Battle of Normandy - June 6, 1944-August 25, 1944
Foreign forces made up of British, Canadian and American troops gain the advantage on behalf of France against the Germans. Not so much a victory BY France as a victory FOR it.

This is counted among your "wins". Hahahahahahahahahahahahaha

"cheese-eatin' surrender monkeys" ~ Groundskeeper Willie

JB

10-29-2010, 08:25 PM

that has repeatedly ignored the USThen how lucky are they the US didn't ignore them.

Rockntractor

10-29-2010, 08:31 PM

Battle of Normandy - June 6, 1944-August 25, 1944
Foreign forces made up of British, Canadian and American troops gain the advantage on behalf of France against the Germans. Not so much a victory BY France as a victory FOR it.

This is counted among your "wins". Hahahahahahahahahahahahaha

"cheese-eatin' surrender monkeys" ~ Groundskeeper Willie

You got it! Every time we swooped in and saved their deodorant free asses, they considered it a win win for them!:D

Arroyo_Doble

10-29-2010, 08:43 PM

After the United States was attacked on September 11th, 2001 the French, along with other allied nations of NATO invoked article 5 of that organization's charter meaning that the French (and other allies) treated that attack like an attack on themselves and in 2002, next to the United States, France had the largest military contingent in the Afghan theater.

The contempt for one of the greatest traditional, and contemporary, allies against the enemies of the United States is embarrassing for me as an American.

I would suggest France bashers should be ashamed but shame left the building long ago.

JB

10-29-2010, 09:05 PM

and in 2002, next to the United States, France had the largest military contingent in the Afghan theater.I'd like to see a link to that because I'm pretty sure the UK and Germany had more troops there than the French.

Constitutionally Speaking

10-30-2010, 07:24 AM

http://www.militaryfactory.com/battles/french_military_victories.asp

Ever since WWI they have been pussies and they DESERVE the reputation they have earned.

djones520

10-30-2010, 08:02 AM

After the United States was attacked on September 11th, 2001 the French, along with other allied nations of NATO invoked article 5 of that organization's charter meaning that the French (and other allies) treated that attack like an attack on themselves and in 2002, next to the United States, France had the largest military contingent in the Afghan theater.

The contempt for one of the greatest traditional, and contemporary, allies against the enemies of the United States is embarrassing for me as an American.

I would suggest France bashers should be ashamed but shame left the building long ago.

Their presence amounted to 600 troops. It was only the largest, because the British force of 2,100 scaled back to 300 for a short period of time.

Dude, seriously. If your going to come up with somethign that weak, don't bother.

PoliCon

10-30-2010, 11:08 AM

The French surrender myth possibly the most pathetic attempt at trying to character assasinate a western country that has repeatedly ignored the US and maintained some level of sovereignty for themselves.

You do they've won a majority of the wars they've been in, right?

What's the last war they've fought in that they won? Not someone else winning it for the - that THEY won?

obx

10-30-2010, 12:13 PM

Do you know why the streets of Paris are lined with trees? So the Germans can march in the shade.

Sonnabend

11-01-2010, 03:31 AM

How many Frenchmen can defend Paris?

No one knows, its never been tried :D

KhrushchevsShoe

11-01-2010, 08:50 AM

What's the last war they've fought in that they won? Not someone else winning it for the - that THEY won?

When's the last time anybody won a war by themselves? I mean like an international conflict, not a civil war or anything like that.

KhrushchevsShoe

11-01-2010, 08:53 AM

well I knew in ww1 and ww2 we should have let the french slide down the stool. and to think all those allied soliders that died for france??? it just wasn't worth it Ivan

No it wasn't worth letting the Soviets take N. Italy, all of Germany and possibly the low countries. Right.

Zathras

11-01-2010, 08:57 AM

When's the last time anybody won a war by themselves? I mean like an international conflict, not a civil war or anything like that.

When was the last time anyone gave a fuck about anything a teenage punk like you has to say? Never, because it hasn't happened yet.

KhrushchevsShoe

11-01-2010, 09:00 AM

When was the last time anyone gave a fuck about anything a teenage punk like you has to say? Never, because it hasn't happened yet.

You're a Sharks fan? Haha how's Antti Niemi treating you? Not that Turco is much better but it sure is tough not having two of the best defensive lines in hockey making your life easy.

asdf2231

11-01-2010, 09:07 AM

France may have won battles but would have lost WWI without England and America bailing her ass out. France DID lose it's portion of WWII. Liberating France was a neccesary. The mistake was giving it back to the bastards afterwards. Also they should have assasinated DeGaul when they had the chance early on.
France might suck a little less today for that.

KhrushchevsShoe

11-01-2010, 09:09 AM

Assasinate DeGaulle... that's not bozo or anything.

Zathras

11-01-2010, 09:13 AM

You're a Sharks fan? Haha how's Antti Niemi treating you? Not that Turco is much better but it sure is tough not having two of the best defensive lines in hockey making your life easy.

Hmmm, still not giving a fuck about anything a snot nose punk like you has to say, sorry.

ironhorsedriver

11-01-2010, 09:18 AM

Well, technically, the US won the Pacific War single handed. True, the Brits where involved early on and throughout in Burma and SE Asia. And the Dutch for a few months. Australia, yes. But the Japanese where defeated wholly by US might.
The Spanish American war. The US only.

KhrushchevsShoe

11-01-2010, 09:50 AM

Well, technically, the US won the Pacific War single handed. True, the Brits where involved early on and throughout in Burma and SE Asia. And the Dutch for a few months. Australia, yes. But the Japanese where defeated wholly by US might.
The Spanish American war. The US only.
Way to forget China. Sure is Anglo-centered history in here.

Then we reach back over 100 years to the Spanish American War.

Again, the France surrender myth is complete fabrication.

obx

11-01-2010, 10:05 AM

China did about as much during WW2 as France. Mainly, sit back and try to decide who to fight with.

PoliCon

11-01-2010, 10:23 AM

When's the last time anybody won a war by themselves? I mean like an international conflict, not a civil war or anything like that.

Don't move the goal posts - answer the question. What is the last war that France won?

PoliCon

11-01-2010, 10:24 AM

China did about as much during WW2 as France. Mainly, sit back and try to decide who to fight with.

And which China? The commies or the Nationalists? They spent as much time if not more fighting each other as they did the Japanese.

AmPat

11-01-2010, 10:46 AM

After the United States was attacked on September 11th, 2001 the French, along with other allied nations of NATO invoked article 5 of that organization's charter meaning that the French (and other allies) treated that attack like an attack on themselves and in 2002, next to the United States, France had the largest military contingent in the Afghan theater.

The contempt for one of the greatest traditional, and contemporary, allies against the enemies of the United States is embarrassing for me as an American.

I would suggest France bashers should be ashamed but shame left the building long ago.

So the French "spoke" and hid behind other NATO countries who sent combat troops. Big deal. As for being So "embarrassed" by these comments, why wern't you more "embarrassed" and ashamed by the anti-American comments of your political allies? :rolleyes:That ("Americans" attacking Americans), is much more "shameful" than Americans attacking the French.

KhrushchevsShoe

11-01-2010, 12:20 PM

China did about as much during WW2 as France. Mainly, sit back and try to decide who to fight with.

You've obviously never heard of the Burma Road or Himalayan airlift. China had been fighting the Japanese since 1936. There was never any question as to who they'd side with.

I cant believe people really believe this shit.

KhrushchevsShoe

11-01-2010, 12:23 PM

Don't move the goal posts - answer the question. What is the last war that France won?

War of the Fifth Coalition against the combined power of the United Kingdom and Austria. 1809.

Last war they've won with no help from other countries other than their own satellite states.

ironhorsedriver

11-01-2010, 12:52 PM

You do understand that the Burma road and airlift on the hump was NOT done by China, other than laborers. China was ran by warlords, irregardless of there being a Nationalist Government. China, was defeated pretty much from day 1.
You need to study history a little better. And for the record, Vichy France, rolled over and played dead for the Japanese.

You do understand that the Burma road and airlift on the hump was NOT done by China, other than laborers. China was ran by warlords, irregardless of there being a Nationalist Government. China, was defeated pretty much from day 1.
You need to study history a little better. And for the record, Vichy France, rolled over and played dead for the Japanese.

No it was the UK and USA sending supplies and resources to China to help them in their fight against the Japanese. I mean, to say the Dutch contributed more to the war effort than China is borderline insane.

War of the Fifth Coalition against the combined power of the United Kingdom and Austria. 1809.

Last war they've won with no help from other countries other than their own satellite states.

Fine - and that was under what form of government?

PoliCon

11-01-2010, 03:52 PM

You've obviously never heard of the Burma Road or Himalayan airlift. China had been fighting the Japanese since 1936. There was never any question as to who they'd side with.

I cant believe people really believe this shit. And do you support or condemn them? Should we recognize them as the legitimate government of China?

KhrushchevsShoe

11-01-2010, 04:57 PM

Fine - and that was under what form of government?

Look who's moving the goalposts now?

KhrushchevsShoe

11-01-2010, 05:02 PM

And do you support or condemn them? Should we recognize them as the legitimate government of China?

Why does everything have to boil down to whether someone supports or condemns something? My personal judgments or feelings about Mao or Chang Kai Shek are completely irrelevant to historical fact. The Chinese fought a very sizable Japanese force for 5 years before the USA entered the war, they actually incurred the second highest death toll of any country participating in the war (that's including civilian and Holocaust casualties).

You're trying to tell me the sky is brown and when I call bullshit on it you ask how the sky being brown makes me feel.

PoliCon

11-01-2010, 05:28 PM

Look who's moving the goalposts now?

I'm allowing your war. How is that moving the goal posts? So - under what form of government was this war won?

KhrushchevsShoe

11-01-2010, 05:36 PM

I'm allowing your war. How is that moving the goal posts? So - under what form of government was this war won?

Oh you're allowing it. Good, because judging by your complete and total ignorance regarding China's involvement in World War 2 and not knowing anything at all about French history before 1900 you obviously are the authority on military history.

Why dont you skip to the chase here. Explain to me how Napoleonic rule makes French gains in the early 19th century any less impressive.

PoliCon

11-01-2010, 05:42 PM

Oh you're allowing it. Good, because judging by your complete and total ignorance regarding China's involvement in World War 2 and not knowing anything at all about French history before 1900 you obviously are the authority on military history.

Why dont you skip to the chase here. Explain to me how Napoleonic rule makes French gains in the early 19th century any less impressive.

Less impressive? Nah - it just goes to show that the french cannot be allowed self rule. They only excel when under a totalitarian regime. BTW - did you notice that this victory you are touting is over 200 years old? I think after 200 years you're allowed to call them cheese eating surrender monkeys. Just saying.

KhrushchevsShoe

11-01-2010, 06:08 PM

Each sentence of your post is special in its own way, so I feel compelled to give them each their individual attention.

Less impressive? Nah - it just goes to show that the french cannot be allowed self rule.
Perhaps the most dominating 10 years in military history, where one country beat five coalitions of Europe's strongest powers, is justification for stripping them of their sovereignty.

You are literally saying with the very first line of your post, in no uncertain terms, that France doesn't deserve to be a country. Its really hard to just skip how ridiculous and condescending such a remark is coming from someone as blatantly ignorant as yourself.

They only excel when under a totalitarian regime.
France has a top 10 global GDP, the 6th strongest military in the world and 8th highest life expectancy all while having the second largest population in continental Europe (incl. UK). Unless you want to call Sarkozy a military dictator (which I would not put past you), I'd say theyre doing quite well in a non-totalitarian government.

BTW - did you notice that this victory you are touting is over 200 years old? I think after 200 years you're allowed to call them cheese eating surrender monkeys. Just saying.
BTW - did you notice that this evidence you are touting is over 200 years old? I think after 200 years you're allowed to forgive France for Napoleon's methods.

PoliCon

11-01-2010, 06:21 PM

Each sentence of your post is special in its own way, so I feel compelled to give them each their individual attention.

Perhaps the most dominating 10 years in military history, where one country beat five coalitions of Europe's strongest powers, is justification for stripping them of their sovereignty.
You are literally saying with the very first line of your post, in no uncertain terms, that France doesn't deserve to be a country. Its really hard to just skip how ridiculous and condescending such a remark is coming from someone as blatantly ignorant as yourself.
Not at all - they can be a country. I fial to see how you conclude that they cannot be a country based on my statement. The French people however are not capable of governing themselves - they need a totalitarian regime - a king or an emperor to flourish. The evidence is clear. They are currently on what? Republic number 6? They change 'constitutions' like other countries change their underwear.

France has a top 10 global GDP, the 6th strongest military in the world and 8th highest life expectancy all while having the second largest population in continental Europe (incl. UK). Unless you want to call Sarkozy a military dictator (which I would not put past you), I'd say theyre doing quite well in a non-totalitarian government.Do you have sources for these claims?

BTW - did you notice that this evidence you are touting is over 200 years old? I think after 200 years you're allowed to forgive France for Napoleon's methods. What is there to forgive? :confused:

KhrushchevsShoe

11-01-2010, 06:30 PM

Not at all - they can be a country. I fial to see how you conclude that they cannot be a country based on my statement. The French people however are not capable of governing themselves - they need a totalitarian regime - a king or an emperor to flourish. The evidence is clear. They are currently on what? Republic number 6? They change 'constitutions' like other countries change their underwear.
States dont have underwear.

Do you have sources for these claims?
GDP- https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/fields/2195.html
Military strength- http://www.globalfirepower.com/
Life expectancy- https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/rankorder/2102rank.html NOTE- Its important to recognize that Andorra, San Marino, Monaco and the like are more city-states. Comparing them to countries' with 50 million+ inhabitants is difficult

I'm guessing the population proof is on Google, remember that Russia and Turkey are not continental European countries.

PoliCon

11-01-2010, 11:12 PM

States dont have underwear.

GDP- https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/fields/2195.html
Military strength- http://www.globalfirepower.com/
Life expectancy- https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/rankorder/2102rank.html NOTE- Its important to recognize that Andorra, San Marino, Monaco and the like are more city-states. Comparing them to countries' with 50 million+ inhabitants is difficult

I'm guessing the population proof is on Google, remember that Russia and Turkey are not continental European countries.

Yea lets see - France has the 8th largest GDP - a GDP that is 1/7th that of the United states. Any idea what the french tax burden is? 71.3% of gross salary according to wikipedia.

As for their life expectancy - it's a false statistic. Always has been.

As for population - the native french are in negative birth rates - the only thing keeping their population growing is the influx of muslims from north Africa and the middle east.

OH and as for military strength - do you remember what the claimed military strength of the Iraqi military was at the time of the first Iraq war?

djones520

11-01-2010, 11:17 PM

Yea lets see - France has the 8th largest GDP - a GDP that is 1/7th that of the United states. Any idea what the french tax burden is? 71.3% of gross salary according to wikipedia.

As for their life expectancy - it's a false statistic. Always has been.

As for population - the native french are in negative birth rates - the only thing keeping their population growing is the influx of muslims from north Africa and the middle east.

OH and as for military strength - do you remember what the claimed military strength of the Iraqi military was at the time of the first Iraq war?

A book I read last week had a lovely qoute in it.

"Iraq went from having the 4th largest Army in the world to having the 2nd largest Army in Iraq." :D

PoliCon

11-01-2010, 11:26 PM

A book I read last week had a lovely qoute in it.

"Iraq went from having the 4th largest Army in the world to having the 2nd largest Army in Iraq." :D

And despite being ranked 4th in the world they ROUTED.

Big Guy

11-01-2010, 11:28 PM

And despite being ranked 4th in the world they ROUTED.

Kinda like the French. :D

PoliCon

11-01-2010, 11:30 PM

Kinda like the French. :D

;) You'd almost think they had been a french colony!:D

KhrushchevsShoe

11-02-2010, 09:06 AM

And despite being ranked 4th in the world they ROUTED.

By a giant coalition of nearly every major western military power.

asdf2231

11-02-2010, 09:38 AM

Oh FFS.

To the drooling sychophantic Francophile?

France gut-shot itself when they killed or ran off anyone with a sense of class and breeding in the revolution. Then nearly every Frenchman with a real set of nuts was killed in WWI and the colonial adventures. Finally WWII finished off the last of the Frenchmen possesed of any amount of scrotal fortitude.

It's a nation of socialist pussies that cant even control the muzzie population in it's own cities.

In short, after all the help they have been to us in the last decades? Fuck 'em. In the ear.

Big Guy

11-02-2010, 12:03 PM

Oh FFS.

To the drooling sychophantic Francophile?

France gut-shot itself when they killed or ran off anyone with a sense of class and breeding in the revolution. Then nearly every Frenchman with a real set of nuts was killed in WWI and the colonial adventures. Finally WWII finished off the last of the Frenchmen possesed of any amount of scrotal fortitude.

It's a nation of socialist pussies that cant even control the muzzie population in it's own cities.

In short, after all the help they have been to us in the last decades? Fuck 'em. In the ear.

So, tell us how you really feel. :D

AmPat

11-02-2010, 01:44 PM

Oh FFS.

To the drooling sychophantic Francophile?

France gut-shot itself when they killed or ran off anyone with a sense of class and breeding in the revolution. Then nearly every Frenchman with a real set of nuts was killed in WWI and the colonial adventures. Finally WWII finished off the last of the Frenchmen possesed of any amount of scrotal fortitude.

It's a nation of socialist pussies that cant even control the muzzie population in it's own cities.

In short, after all the help they have been to us in the last decades? Fuck 'em. In the ear.

HooAhh!:)

PoliCon

11-02-2010, 03:52 PM

So, tell us how you really feel. :D

ASDF has a real problem with being honest about what he thinks. He's so cautious of other peoples feelings . . . . ;)

hampshirebrit

11-02-2010, 03:58 PM

They make good wine.

And baguettes.

And, of course, cheese, definitely very good cheese.

Some of their womenfolk are quite decent, too.

PoliCon

11-02-2010, 04:01 PM

They make good wine.

And baguettes.

And, of course, cheese, definitely very good cheese.

Some of their womenfolk are quite decent, too.

You like hairy women? :eek:

Bailey

11-02-2010, 04:12 PM

Oh FFS.

To the drooling sychophantic Francophile?

France gut-shot itself when they killed or ran off anyone with a sense of class and breeding in the revolution. Then nearly every Frenchman with a real set of nuts was killed in WWI and the colonial adventures. Finally WWII finished off the last of the Frenchmen possesed of any amount of scrotal fortitude.

It's a nation of socialist pussies that cant even control the muzzie population in it's own cities.

In short, after all the help they have been to us in the last decades? Fuck 'em. In the ear.

Yes WW1 killed so many men it mostly wiped out the aggressiveness right out of them, same with the Germans in WW2

hampshirebrit

11-02-2010, 04:27 PM

You like hairy women? :eek:

Mais non.

And not all of them are hairy. That's a bit of an urban legend.

One of the most beautiful women I ever knew came from Alsace.

Technically, that would make her an Alsatian. But she was no dog.

The French can be snooty and snobbish (especially when it comes to food), and it is true, do not generally excel on the battlefield. They make up for their shortcomings in other ways, though.

PoliCon

11-02-2010, 04:30 PM

Mais non.

And not all of them are hairy. That's a bit of an urban legend.

One of the most beautiful women I ever knew came from Alsace.

Technically, that would make her an Alsatian. But she was no dog.

The French can be snooty and snobbish (especially when it comes to food), and it is true, do not generally excel on the battlefield. They make up for their shortcomings in other ways, though.

Well - Alsatians are Germanic so that explains why she was hot. ;)

hampshirebrit

11-02-2010, 04:54 PM

Well - Alsatians are Germanic so that explains why she was hot. ;)

Damn. I was hoping no-one would pick up on that. She was very blonde and blue-eyed.

However, the first love of my life, and a contemporary of the Alsatian lass (both of them were exchange students at college), was dark haired and had light brown eyes.

Both these fine women were French, good looking in very differing ways.

AmPat

11-02-2010, 05:13 PM

Damn. I was hoping no-one would pick up on that. She was very blonde and blue-eyed.

However, the first love of my life, and a contemporary of the Alsatian lass (both of them were exchange students at college), was dark haired and had light brown eyes.

Both these fine women were French, good looking in very differing ways.
Did they stink?:confused::o

hampshirebrit

11-02-2010, 05:25 PM

Did they stink?:confused::o

The cheeses, certainly, the women far less so. Actually, as I recall, they were both pleasing to the nose, as well as to the eye.

I'm sorry to disappoint our many French bashers, but I have yet to experience a malodorous French women, whereas I have, unfortunately, experienced perhaps more than my fair share of "odorously challenged" British and North American ones.

Them's the breaks, I guess. France, Teh Yuk and North America have some wonderful women. I've just been luckier in France than in the other two places.

PoliCon

11-02-2010, 05:56 PM

The cheeses, certainly, the women far less so. Actually, as I recall, they were both pleasing to the nose, as well as to the eye.

I'm sorry to disappoint our many French bashers, but I have yet to experience a malodorous French women, whereas I have, unfortunately, experienced perhaps more than my fair share of "odorously challenged" British and North American ones.

Them's the breaks, I guess. France, Teh Yuk and North America have some wonderful women. I've just been luckier in France than in the other two places.

Prolly because no one here can understand a word you're saying! :p

asdf2231

11-02-2010, 06:27 PM

The cheeses, certainly, the women far less so. Actually, as I recall, they were both pleasing to the nose, as well as to the eye.

I'm sorry to disappoint our many French bashers, but I have yet to experience a malodorous French women, whereas I have, unfortunately, experienced perhaps more than my fair share of "odorously challenged" British and North American ones.

Them's the breaks, I guess. France, Teh Yuk and North America have some wonderful women. I've just been luckier in France than in the other two places.

Oh hay, I absolutely agree with you about French broads. :D

AmPat

11-02-2010, 07:57 PM

I have never experienced a more malodorous group than the French. The Greeks are a close second and many Germans wrinkled my nose. The French however were the top stinkers though.

Odysseus

11-03-2010, 01:29 AM

The French surrender myth possibly the most pathetic attempt at trying to character assasinate a western country that has repeatedly ignored the US and maintained some level of sovereignty for themselves.

You do they've won a majority of the wars they've been in, right?

You are astonishingly clueless. In the modern era (post 1800) the French has lost the Napoleonic Wars, the War of Mexican Independence (think about how tough that must have been), the Franco-Prussian War, and while they were on the winning side of WWI and WWII, their contribution to WWII was negligible (and their survival in WWI was largely due to the British, and the decisive influx of US forces at the end). Their post-WWII record has been embarrassing, with losses throughout their former colonies and a truly appalling performance as peacekeepers in Africa and the former Yugoslavia. In fact, the only effective combat force that the French have managed to maintain has been the Legion Etrangere, which is made up entirely of foreigners.

Spare me your military expertise. If it's anything like your economic knowledge, it's good for nothing but comic relief.

CueSi

11-07-2010, 09:21 PM

They make good wine.

And baguettes.

And, of course, cheese, definitely very good cheese.

Some of their womenfolk are quite decent, too.

I'll give you the baguettes...maybe the cheese.

But I prefer a good Reisling and the better looking specimens of Eastern Europe and the UK as well as my own United States. :D

~QC

AmPat

11-08-2010, 01:45 PM

maintained some level of sovereignty for themselvesTHEY CAN'T EVEN DEFEND THEIR OWN COUNTRY FROM THE INFLUX AND TAKEOVER BY THE MUSLIMS.