I suppose I'm drawn to that conclusion because I like the coyote for its symbolic value, as a special icon (creator as trickster).

Jerry Horne wrote:Interestingly enough, on some tarot cards for 'The Fool' there is a fox at the foot of he Fool.The Fool reversed cautions you about potentially being taken advantage of or entering into a deal where you do not fully understand the consequences of your decisions.

Tarot Cards! I'm a collector of these.

The Rider-Waite Tarot Fool is a good fit, both for a wolf or a coyote (the GD Fool card had a child with a wolf on a leash sitting in a rose garden iirc). The negative version of the Rider-Waite fool would seem to be a recklessly carefree or preoccupied vagabond figure, so caught up in his otherwordly thoughts that he doesn't even notice the dog/animal biting at his heels. The iconography is redolent of Breugel's The Misanthrope, insofar as the fool like the misanthrope has left worldly interest behind. Also the Fool is about to walk off a cliff, for the same reasons. Is this Hastings -- so preoccupied with the zone that he forgets about his worldly situation? Principal, husband, fisherman.

The positive meaning represents the pre-beginning of things, the impulse that sets things in motion before anything descends into world of action. And on a higher level, the Fool is the Ipsissimus, the 'one who is most himself'. In Magick: Theory and Practice, Crowley claimed the Ipsissimus was an adept who acted without acting -- whereas in the form of a Magus (the following card 'The Magician') the adept accomplishes his will by ensuring that his every action is triangulated by an action that negates it -- the Ipsissimus is somehow above and beyond such dualities. If the Magician is one who longs to see, the Fool is one who has already seen, and is for that transcendental, unworldly, beyond the pale.

The downside of even the positive (non-inverted) Fool is that the Fool can represent leaving the world behind, 'travelling very light' in terms of material concerns and relationships. The Fool is an 'idiot' in the etymological sense, seen in classical Roman times as an extremely private person who refuses to take part in the civic and public life of the city, instead aspiring to remain outside human laws. Not so much a simpleton as a absolute separatist -- a solipsist -- he was also considered in law as caput lupinum, a 'wolfshead'. He belongs to neither nature (the rural) nor culture (the city) but chants out between two worlds, trapped on the threshold, either walled up with the mad at the city margins or kept at bay from entering beyond these city termini (literally, 'ex-terminated'). Historically, he's a deeply tragic figure usually banned from law (which means anyone can kill him without incurring the charge of murder); mythologically he's like Robin Hood or any number of outcast figures with secret ties to, or knowledge of, the city establishment or hierarchy.

Bringing only this tiny fragment of the existing intertextual iconography of wolves, coyotes and outsider-tricksters into play, it's safe to say this door knocker is a fitting emblem for the fact that Hastings has seen too much, and is earmarked for nonexistence. It's a doom-laden moment when we see it.

As a matter of fact, 'Chalfont' was the name of the people that rented this space before. Two Chalfonts. Weird, huh?

Last weekend I started my first rewatch of The Return/Season 3.I have to say that for me as well it is not entirely clear whether I should use spoiler tags for information that will be revealed in later parts. So for the safety of it I will use them if necessary.Also, sorry in advance if some of my observations were discussed in this thread before, but 60+ pages us just to much to scan before posting…

What follows are some random observations, questions and ideas about parts 1 & 2 + some of my favorite quotes.

- I also asked myself this question

Mr. Reindeer wrote:

Spoiler:

The effect of Dale disappearing after the Fireman says he is far away seemed like a very similar effect to Laura's corpse vanishing during Dale's attempted retcon in Part 18. I think most of us took the "far away" to mean he's in the Black Lodge, or that he's far from reaching the enlightenment of the White Lodge (if that's where they are). But maybe the Fireman is referring to Coop being in the "Richard" dimension?

- It struck me during this rewatch how ‘in character’ Richard Beymer is. Ben Horne was spot on Ben Horne from the first second. I really believed it.

– I find it dramatic that in Part 1

Spoiler:

the dialogue between Ben and Jerry is the only scene in which Jerry interacts with another character before going on his strange ‘trip’ in the forest. I wonder if there's anything in this scene that triggers Jerry to go out on his journey?

– So, the insurance guy scene at the sheriff’s station is only to establish that there are two Trumans?

- I absolutely love the whole scene at Buella’s house

Spoiler:

and find it a bit disappointing we don’t revisit it later on in the series

. Are there any theories about this scene/house? Is there a link with the lodges? What is the purpose of the guy in the wheelchair and the guy next to him? What do Ray and Darya give those two guys as they leave with Mr. C?

- The similarities between Otis en the elderly waiter from season 2 are very striking to me. There’s something in their facial expressions that are very identical. Coincidence?

- Where the hell did the security guard go the second time Tracy was visiting Sam? Was there a set up so that Tracy could enter the room in order to have sex with Sam? Dit sex (love) trigger The Mother to appear?

- Random theory and thinking out loud:

Spoiler:

Sam says that the guy he replaced saw something in the glass box but wouldn’t talk about it. Is that guy anyone we know? Is it BadCoop? We saw him in Part?? In a picture at the glass box. Could it be he was waiting there for something to appear and ‘quit the job’ once he saw wat he needed (wanted ) to see? Dit Major Briggs appear in the glass box and did BadCoop kill him right there? It could be a hint that Brigg’s body is found in that same Part of The Return…

Or maybe indeed, as Novalis sais, this mitght also be an option:

Novalis wrote: Sam's mention of a predecessor who saw something in the glass cube, who wouldn't -- or couldn't -- say more puts me in mind of

Spoiler:

Hutch's mention of a belated Sammy to whom he owed money. Since it is established by photo that Mr. C is somehow involved with the New York experiment, and possibly finances the project, it might not be unreasonable to guess that Hutch was Sam's predecessor. He may have promised Sam money for replacing him, after seeing something that he did not want to think about.

– Where did The Mother go after she escaped the glass box? [spoiler]To Sarah, ‘activating’ the bug that was planted in her in the 50’s? Is the mother the doppelganger of The evolution of The Arm?

(had to post this in two parts becouse something went wrong editorial-wise...)

- Out of curiosity: what could Hank have got that is his and Chips but Harvey can’t get? Is this scene as random as it looks, or is there something more to it? Theories?

- I liked detective Don Harrisson, head of State Police, and think it’s weird

Spoiler:

he appeared so little later in the series

- It never really was cleared out what

Spoiler:

that peace of flesh was in Hasting’s car, was it? Can we assume it was a piece of Ruth Davenport?

- In part 2 Phyllis says to George “he knows” about Will Hastings. On my first watch I thought she meant “he knows about our affair”. However, in the scene prior to that scene Hastings is in his cell, head between hands uttering “Oh my God, oh my God, oh my God”. To me that means he’s realizing his acts with Ruth Davenport wasn’t a dream. Phyllis caught up on that and knows that he knows.

-

Mr. Reindeer wrote:It's also still unclear what exactly Phyllis did to advance Mr. C's plan. She slept with George, which allowed Mr. C to frame George for her murder. But why were Phyllis or George relevant to his plan at all? Did she give him access to Bill's trunk so he could plant whatever the sashimi-fleshy thing was?

Yes, I would also love to hear theories about the relation between BadCoop, Phyllis Hasting, Will Hastings, Major Briggs, George, the woodsman in the prison cell and the piece of flesh in the car of Hastings.

Spoiler:

Is Phyllis a Tupla? Did she, BadCoop and George work together ? Did BOB possess Will? Why is the woodsman in the prison cell? Was it a woodsman to begin with? He looks different compared to the other woodsmen we see in later parts…

- Mr. Todd says: “tell her she has the job”.

Spoiler:

I’m still wondering: who is ‘she’?

- Who is Jack? And why is he there all of a sudden at the diner where BadCoop, Darya and Ray were eating? He wasn’t at Buella’s. Also an observation: I thought Ray was joking when he said to Jack something about finishing his third diner. But there are in fact three plates in front of him...

-

Mr. Reindeer wrote:So we never got a resolution to who Mr. C called in this Part. Real Jeffries, Mike, other? Might make for a good poll. The "I missed you in New York" line seems to imply it's

Spoiler:

Judy Is this why Bob always gets pulled out of Mr. C when he dies, because Judy is pulling him back to her?

Any other obvious options?

I'm thinking

Spoiler:

Mike or Judy are the most obvious possibilities.

- Hawk in the woods is an absolutely beautiful scene!

Spoiler:

But what was the purpose of it? Did he let Margaret know what happened?

Did he see what was going on in the red room which occurs right after he sees the drapes at Glastonbury Grove?

The Jumping Man wrote:

Spoiler:

I think Hawk was drawn to Glastonbury Grove because that's where Coop was supposed to emerge, if all had gone right. Once the Arm doppelganger interferes and sends Coop into "nonexistence," and Evil Coop puts his tulpa plan into action, Coop was rerouted. What we see in Part 18 is his departure from the Lodge playing out the way it was supposed to, as he exits through Glastonbury Grove. Just my two cents!

I agree, I also think

Spoiler:

Cooper normally had to get out that night at Glastonburry Grove. Hawk somehow knows this: “There was supposed to be something happening here tonight”. BadCoop intervened and manufactured Dougie Jones. The One Armed Man & The Arm notice this: “something is wrong!”. In order to make this work BadCoop also created a diversion via the glass box so that Coop didn’t appear in Glastonbury Grove but in the house were Tulpa Dougie Jones is. Because of this change in events the Red Room ‘ripped’ and the Doppelganger of the evolution of The Arm was also able to escape into the real world. Is the doppelganger of the evolution of The Arm The Mother?? I don’t know. This doesn’t make any sense I guess.

- Another random question: why was Jack wiring the car of the secretary of Hastings if Ray supposedly already got the coordinates?

Spoiler:

- The arm says: “Bob, Bob, Bob”. Three times Bob. Three different worlds?

-

Mr. Reindeer wrote:

Spoiler:

Are we assuming that Laura getting yanked from the Lodge is the result of Coop's well-intentioned meddling with the timeline?

I don't think so, I think she's being yanked out because of what she whisperred to Coop.

Spoiler:

I think what Laura whisperred is essential --> the reaction of Coop is so present, also in the final credits of Part 18 like Novalis said.

- The Chromatics song ‘Shadow’ is so emotional en beautiful. Maybe my favorite Roadhouse song from Season 3.

- The arm says: “Bob, Bob, Bob”. Three times Bob. Three different worlds?

Cooper / Cooper / Cooper

Spoiler:

"Albert. Albert. Albert."

On this, I had these thoughts:

Spoiler:

We know there's some numerology buried somewhere in the creators' interests, given Cole's counting of Tammy's fingers and the message Cooper leaves Cole at the hospital. Well, this is season 3. Season 2 ended with a doppelganger (a double). Perhaps season 3 might be considered as ending with the discovery that beyond Cooper and his double there is a third person, different from both of them. While Hawk, apparently still in season 2 mode, is shocked to discover there are 'two Coopers!' when he sees Briggs' message, the message as presented is in fact truncated. We all know from S2 that the original intercept, besides having the owls message also had three 'COOPER's on it -- in fact you can still see the "CO" from the third one where the printout has been cropped. This also brings to bear the old fan theories over the name Tremond. Lodge spirits in TMP talked of "intercourse between the two worlds", but suppose there were actually three? Pendant to all this is that feeling that 'behind' Twin Peaks (Blue Pine and White Tail mountains regions) looms a further 'peak' hitherto unexpected -- just as the face of a third Cooper unexpectedly interposes itself near the close of part 17. This Third Place -- let's call it -- is perhaps the one that we return to in the finale, and is the one where the sleeper must awaken. Added to this, the way Cole counts Tammy's fingers (right to left, so that her ring finger is counted as '2', makes the blackened finger which appears behind Sarah's mask count as a '3'. Perhaps beyond whatever the 1st world is (presumably the world of Twin Peaks and its normal inhabitants) and the 2nd 'spiritual' world of the lodges lies a 3rd world that has to do with whatever Sarah is carrying; this would be Carrie's world, very austere, stark and frightening. As if in confirmation, its the world that has a Tremond family ('three worlds') living at its centre.

EDIT: a non-spoilery afterthought, about the threes. We also have Candie / Mandie / Sandie (this one works better visually) and of course Fusco / Fusco / Fusco.

Last edited by Novalis on Thu Sep 28, 2017 5:09 am, edited 2 times in total.

As a matter of fact, 'Chalfont' was the name of the people that rented this space before. Two Chalfonts. Weird, huh?

Mr. Reindeer wrote:Started rewatch tonight with Part 1. (This will probably take awhile, work is very busy as are my weekends.) I'd love it if the mods would clarify whether or not future Part spoilers are game in these threads, so we can analyze how earlier Parts relate to what comes. It's great to have the spoiler tags, but that might get a bit unwieldy. Future Part spoilers up to and including Part 18 follow.......

Spoiler:

The effect of Dale disappearing after the Fireman says he is far away seemed like a very similar effect to Laura's corpse vanishing during Dale's attempted retcon in Part 18. I think most of us took the "far away" to mean he's in the Black Lodge, or that he's far from reaching the enlightenment of the White Lodge (if that's where they are). But maybe the Fireman is referring to Coop being in the "Richard" dimension? When exactly this introductory scene takes place is one of the more fascinating questions in terms of the narrative.

Especially given how things turned out, it's incredible to realize how little Dale we got in Part 1. The opening scene with the Fireman and then the Mr. C scene at Buella's -- that's it!

The shot of the Packard Mill's remains ended up being the only reference to the town's former central business, other than a brief background glimpse (incongruously across from the Sheriff's Station, reflecting the real location but not established series geography) in Part 9.

This didn't register with me before, but Jacoby wearing sunglasses over his 3D glasses is hysterically funny. One of many little touches I'll come to adore on future rewatches. (Just watching Armstrong the dog throughout those scenes is another. And the absurdly elongated bathroom in the NYC glass-box-loft.)

Seeing Constance and Dave Macklay for the first time almost made me squeal with joy. I've rewatched each of the Parts exactly once, a few days after the initial airing. So, I haven't revisited them knowing what's to come (although of course my Part 1 initial rewatch was after I'd seen the first four). I got so attached to these two (especially Constance) that it was wonderful to revisit meeting them for the first time.

So we never found out what the sashimi-looking thing in Bill's trunk was, huh? Honestly, aside from having blood on it, it doesn't look like human flesh to me. Perhaps a piece of an organ?

Also no clue what resonance the gramophone has, other than INLAND EMPIRE parallels, but "the sounds" obviously played a key role in Parts 17/18. Skipping record indicating time being stuck?

Per Dave's pad, Bill Hastings has a 1997 Jaywalking prior. Temporal correlation to the creation of Dougie?

Ha! I always thought it looked like sashimi too. Anyway...

Spoiler:

I'm wondering if the part with the Fireman and Coop happens in between Coop leaving the sheriff's station and before flickering into the FWWM scene to save Laura. It's the same effect when he teleports.

Also, that sound from the gramophone? It's in Part 2, sounding a big more electric, right before Mike says something's wrong and the Arm mentions its doppelganger. I'm guessing that sound is associated with Judy, now.

- Who is the man posing as Jeffries? He doesn't have the southern accent, but him mentioning Bob links him to the Lodge. At certain moments it kind of feels like it's Albert, but the Bob-remark debunks that theory.

- Is it fuuutuuur or is it past?

- What is the intrinsic motivation of the Arm's doppleganger to throw Cooper into the abyss that leads to the purple world?

I’ll lead off with the big discovery I haven’t seen mentioned before...Officers Olson and Douglas accompany Macklay to arrest Bill Hastings in squad car number (wait for it) 119 (in case this wasn’t clear enough, the rear part of the car has emblazoned on it, “CALL 911”). Earlier in Part 1, the same officers were in car 116.

Anyone who says DKL simply shot the new show on digital and slapped it on the airwaves with no thought for aesthetics needs to watch the “driving” shot from the “woods” promo (with its lush greens) and compare to the color-corrected version in Part 1. You may feel that parts of the show were drab (I disagree), but the cinematography was a VERY conscious artistic choice, not merely a product of laziness.

Call me crazy, but I think there’s a gold bead — i.e., one of the “soul” beads — hovering around Judy’s hands when she first appears. It disappears after a few seconds. Not sure what this means, but freeze frame it and tell me if you agree or disagree.

Speaking of, freeze framing the entire “Experiment” sequence is really worth it. Not necessarily in a “hidden clues” way (I looked for a frame of Zabriskie with no luck), but more in the way that freeze-framing a Tex Avery cartoon can be enormously entertaining, to catch the weird subtle in-between moments. The way DKL morphs Judy from frame to frame is really breathtaking, and somehow only adds to the mystique of the entity. I’m convinced that she is basically just a female body with a head shaped like the Eraserhead baby’s, featureless except for the gaping mouth....but the way she blurs, distorts and overlaps herself, her head at various points resembles a human skull and a stereotypical “grey” alien (a nice tie-in with TSHoTP), among many other much more abstractly grotesque forms which defy description.

A really nice subtle little editing touch: as Officers Olson and Douglas walk away at the end of the scene with Hank, Hank’s foot comes into frame a split-second before the scene cuts to a shot of him stepping forward. Again, anyone who says DKL wasn’t ruthlessly paying attention to detail (as he always does) is just being bitter. Doesn’t mean anyone has to like the show, but there is tremendous care put into every frame.

Odd freeze frame: Constance has Word docs on her desktop titled “Abu Hamza” and “Abu Nidal,” presumably suspects targeted by Buckhorn PD. An unfortunate bit of Islamophobia (either name would have been ok on its own — particularly if there were ANY other names present on the desktop...). Hopefully this was the work of a rogue propmaster and not any principal on the production.

I’ve finally gotten to see the “combined” Part 1/2 cut and compare it to the broken-up version...and I agree with the majority, it works much better going straight-through. Aside from the fact that the same sound effect bridges the two parts, making the directorial intent pretty clear, I love the flow of this edit — after the introductory bits, teasing various disparate threads (DoppelCoop at Buella’s, various familiar faces in TP, and the nonstarter NYC storyline), it dives full-on into Buckhorn for a looong time, then — with Phyllis’s killing — transitions perfectly from Buckhorn to all-Coop-all-the-time after starving us of our leading man for the better part of 70 minutes.

Laura’s “I am dead yet I live” has the ring of John 11:25: “Whoever believes in me, though he dies, yet shall he live,” adding to the Messianic Laura motif. Out of curiosity, has Mark ever spoken about his religious beliefs?

Mr. C has a great little smirk at one point when Darya is screaming, as if once in awhile he’s still able to find some small modicum of joy in human suffering, as world-weary as he is. It reminds me of Diane talking about his smile.

The Arm and especially his doppel have heads that bear more than a passing resemblance to Judy/Experiment’s head in the glass box sequence in Part 1.

I'm not much of a believer myself, I prefer suffixing at least about seven question marks behind each statement or "person." But I do remember that Lynch saw a passage in the bible that brought him to an idea for the ending of Eraserhead, of which he said that it was his most spiritual movie. I also know that Cyril means "lord" and that his dog was black and white. Just saying.

Xavi wrote:I'm not much of a believer myself, I prefer suffixing at least about seven question marks behind each statement or "person." But I do remember that Lynch saw a passage in the bible that brought him to an idea for the ending of Eraserhead, of which he said that it was his most spiritual movie.

At one point in the Lynch 2 documentary, he also mentions reading the Bible hoping to find similar inspiration for IE, and retells the “Legion” story. But of course, DKL is much more interested in Buddhism than Christianity by and large, which is why I wondered about Mark. He strikes me as an atheist, but I might be projecting.

The combined version entirely drops the “Part 1 end credits sequence,” which depicts the Fireman looking to his left, followed by a slow zoom on the phonograph. Both shots were used in the opening scene of Part 1, but the end credits feature longer extended footage of both shots with unique sound effects.

The combined version features a few extra frames — really a split second — of Bill Hastings rubbing his temples, which are lost in the standalone Part 2 fade-in.

In the combined version, the credits start earlier over the Chromatics performance, as they have to include cast credits and song list for both Parts 1 and 2. The standalone Part 2 edit features more “clean” footage of the Chromatics performance before the credits start.