Meet the Wingnuts: The extremist views of I-920’s Dennis Falk

What will happen if I-920 passes? Funds for primary and secondary education will be eliminated. Specifically, funds used for reducing K-12 class size, learning assistance programs, financial aid for Washington low- and middle-income college students, and about 8,000 enrollment slots at state universities will be eliminated. All that comes about through a repeal of the Washington State Estate Tax (or the Blethen Tax as Goldy likes to call it).

Dennis Falk is the sponsor and campaign director of I-920. Last June, Neil Modie of the Seattle P-I gave this brief biographical sketch of Dennis Falk,

…I-920’s sponsor, campaign manager and chairman, Dennis Falk, a former Seattle police officer and a longtime leader of the ultraconservative John Birch Society. In 1978, Falk co-chaired Save Our Moral Ethics, an unsuccessful initiative campaign to repeal a Seattle law barring housing and employment discriminations against gays and lesbians.

“I think it certainly raises eyebrows that some of the leading corporate citizens in the state are funding a John Birch Society organizer, who is paying himself,” Christian Sinderman, a spokesman for the opponents and a veteran Democratic campaign operative, said Thursday. Falk is paying himself $950 a month from campaign funds to manage I-920.

So this initiative is being run by a homopobe who is the lead Bircher for Washington State. (Goldy previously profiled Dennis Falk and his Bircher ways.)

But, Dennis Falk is not just your ordinary ultra-right wing, anti-commie, homophobe, UN conspiracy theorist. Nope…Dennis Falk has a long history of involvement with more extremist groups. In 1986, before being kicked off the Seattle Police Force for “for shooting to death a fleeing, mentally retarded man,” Falk was involved in another movement.

From the Seattle Times (“Group Hoping For End To Income Tax,” Dee Norton. Feb 12, 1986. pg. D.2):

A group of Seattle police officers and firefighters who call themselves constitutionalists want the city to stop deducting federal income tax from their paychecks.

Seattle police officer Dennis Falk and Sgt. Keith Engstrom have joined with 15 to 20 other officers and firefighters in the effort. The group hopes a federal appeals-court case scheduled to be heard in Seattle starting today will bolster their position. […]

The income-tax war for Engstrom, Falk and the others became confrontational several years ago when they submitted their income tax withholding forms to the city. Falk said he was exempt from paying income taxes.

The group claimed that, because of punctuation, capitalization and spelling changes when the 16th Amendment was being ratified by the states, the federal income tax is void. The courts disagreed.

Who are the “constitutionalists?” At worst, the “constitutionalist anti-tax movement” includes the Freemen movement (originally in Montana) and the Posse Comitatus.

I’ve found no evidence that Falk is personally involved in any citizen militia or other violent movements (except…um…in his former capacity as a cop), but he is more broadly involved in the Christian Patriot movement, as this 1996 article suggests .

It’s unbelievable that a right-wing wack-job like Dennis Falk could actually inspire a grassroots movement to get an initiative on the ballot.

It is unbelievable because…it’s not true. Initiative 920 is not based on anything resembling a grassroots movement. The majority of the funding or I-920 has come from Martin Selig who has given $807,500 to the I-920 campaign . Big bucks, to the tune of $357,500, have also come from Michael Dunmire (a.k.a. Eyman’s Sugar Daddy). And, as Goldy mentioned, $25,000 came from John N. Nordstrom for the signature drive.

Given Mr. Falks extremist views, one has to wonder whether these people actually know about Mr. Falk and his movement. Or are they part of the movement, too?

(Bonus question: Given the common connections through Dunmire, what is Eyman’s involvement in the Birchers and the Christian Patriot movement?)

Update: I was wrong about Dunmire donating to I-920—I searched the PDC database and got all results thinking they were restricted to I-920. Dunmire dumped his pile-o-money into I-917. I guess that lets Eyman off the hook. Also John N. Nordstrom’s contributions to I-920 to date have trippled to $75,000 from when Goldy wrote his earlier post. I had more to say about that at Jesus’ General Sunday night.

As wack-jobs go, Falk looks like a doozy. And it certainly was entertaining to read his story. But what does his personal story have to do with the issues at stake in I-920? Presumably, if you agreed with an initiative, you would vote for it even if its sponsor was a doozy of a wack-job.

(For the benefit of the attack dogs here who see red whenever anyone takes a position that might be construed as not unfailingly hostile to any idea or person from the right, I will note that I plan to vote against I-920. But that is because of my own beliefs about the estate tax, not because of Falk.)

So Darryl, I am so glad you finally admitted you LIBRUL GIRLY-GUYS guys are communists!

On the UN, again Darryl, you are on the wrong side of the US populace:

Hudson Institute polled this week…

75% of Americans believe the U.N. is no longer “effective” and “needs to be held more accountable.” 71% believe the U.N. “needs to be considerably reformed.” 67% believe “there are too many undemocratic nations in the U.N. that do not care about promoting democracy and freedom.” Only 37% believe the U.N. is “effective in PREVENTING wars and military conflicts.” Only 32% believe the UN is “effective in ENDING wars and military conflicts.”

So I guess Darryl, you disagree with Americans?

When asked whether they thought same-sex “marriages” should be recognized by the law as valid and come with the same rights as traditional marriages, 68 percent of the respondents in the CNN/USA Today/Gallup poll said they should not.

In this ABCNEWS/Washington Post survey, 38 percent of Americans favor amending the U.S. Constitution to make it illegal for homosexual couples to marry, but 58 percent say, instead, that each state should make its own laws on gay marriage. Sampling, data collection and tabulation for this poll were done by TNS Intersearch. That’s not an endorsement of same-sex marriages — indeed most, 55 percent, say such marriages should be illegal.

Pew Research Center for the People & the Press and Pew Forum on Religion & Public Life survey conducted by Schulman, Ronca & Bucuvalas (SRBI). July 6-19, 2006. Adults nationwide. (June 2006 and earlier conducted by Princeton Survey Research Associates International.)

Regarding anti-semites: Most ASSWipes on HorsesASSWipes are the anti-semites.

Goldie: MWS asked where are the Haaretz ans J-Post links? Aren’t you a good Jew who cares about his native land? Or does donkiness overtake jewness so you can’t add the links because it would show your actual colors.

Darryl: Where do you weigh in on this topic? Do you support Israel or not. I am an avowed neocon. I support Israel’s right to exist. Most ASSWipes here do not. What say you?

I and just about every liberal on this comment board supports Israel’s right to exist.

However most liberals also believe Israel is just making life harder for herself by brutalizing the Palestinians and occupying the West bank. Pulling out of tiny Gaza when it’s more or less a walled prison is little consolation.

40 years of military occupation of the West Bank has just made things worse and worse for Israel and Dubya’s excellent adventure in Iraq hasn’t helped.

Just raise any questions about Israel’s policies and it’s “anti-semitic” name-calling time from right-wing jerks like Puddybud.

By the way Puddybud do you agree with your anti-semitic peeps in CO Springs and Mel Gibson that the Jews killed Jesus Christ?

Cluelessness: You are so funny. I can see why you think why do you. You’ve NEVER BEEN TO ISRAEL.

You had to carry two US passports. Why? We had one for Israel and Europe and one for Arabs and Europe. If you showed up in an Arab state with an Israeli stamp you were NOT ALLOWED IN or given many hours of questions! What a moonbat.

So I guess you agree with the 4000 Hezbollah rockets landing in Northern Israel? I guess you agree with the Intifadah started by the useless “statesman” Arafat? Clinton loved him and Bush told him what he was a terrorist!

Let me ask Clueless since you are such a “scholar” of history: Who started the 1967 and 1973 wars? Who was the agressor? Doesn’t the victor get the spoils?

Now we see the Palestinians tell Israel they will get peace if they leave Gaza and what happens. Israel leaves and Gaza attacks and still has the Israeli soldier as a hostage. Since Israel is not in Gaza and we see the problems there are Palestinian, even some Palestinian politicos are waking up and saying Israeli hatred is not going to put bread on the table or money in their wallets. Yes, you cluelessness blame it on Israel. This is where you and I differ! You being a moonbat get your marching orders and views from Kos and other moonbat sites. You should ask if they have visited the middle east. I bet the answer is a FAT NO!

Sorry I don’t answer your rants. Mel Gibson has to answer for himself. Regarding the who killed Christ answer, it was the Synogogue leaders. Says so in the Bible when Caiaphas called Jesus a blasphemer for saying He was the Son of God!

Why was Falk a cop in the first place? Doesn’t SPD do any psychological screening of officer applicants? Do we have to wait for someone to get shot to find out our city has given a badge, gun, and the legal right to use deadly force to a nut?

Suppose the fascists install a one-party government that we can’t get rid of (because they control the voting machines) and send guys like Falk into our neighborhoods. Can you just imagine Falk banging on your door, wearing a police uniform and badge, and pointing a gun at you, and saying “you’re under arrest on suspicion of being a liberal?”

4 – Puddybud that’s a fucking lie and you know it. I’ve documented your right-wing anti-semitic peeps over at the air force academy in CO Springs – the new mecca for brainwashed wingnuts. Commentby For the Clueless— 9/17/06@ 12:58 pm

Cluelessness by his own admission above put this one to rest against himself!

Suppose the fascists install a one-party government that we can’t get rid of (because they control the voting machines) and send guys like Falk into our neighborhoods. Can you just imagine Falk banging on your door, wearing a police uniform and badge, and pointing a gun at you, and saying “you’re under arrest on suspicion of being a liberal?” Commentby Roger Rabbit— 9/17/06@ 1:42 pm

Pelletizer, that’s unadulterated bullshit and you know it about who controls the voting machines. Do I need to remind you about their use in California, controlled by DONK? Do I need to remind you how libruls act when we are driving while black? Your side is trying this on the airwaves with the “Fairness Doctrine”.

I’m sure Hitler got similar poll numbers after a few years of shoving his propaganda down the throats of gullible Germans. You can get people to believe anything, if you work hard enough at it. After all, Hitler got Germans to believe Poland attacked Germany, and Bush got Americans to believe Iraq attacked the World Trade Center. Low Tax Looper would be a Tennessee state senator, instead of a Tennessee prison inmate, if he’d had a better publicist and a better lawyer.

So, now that we’ve established that P.T. Barnum was right, what’s the point of your post @3, Puddybutt? That the drumbeat of rightwing propaganda against the UN has had an effect?

So you don’t like the UN. So you don’t like the idea of sitting down with other nations to thrash out differences in order to prevent wars. Whose ass do you want to kick next? Iran’s? Syria’s? North Korea’s? Are you going to send American kids to Israel to take away THEIR nuclear weapons?

People like you have a dark, dark, dark vision of the world. You see a world of intractable evil in which incessant warfare is the normal state of human affairs. You were born 1,000 years too late, Pudwhacker. You were just right for the Dark Ages.

“Do I need to remind you how libruls act when we are driving while black? Your side is trying this on the airwaves with the ‘Fairness Doctrine’.” Commentby Puddybud Mo Money Ray Nagin— 9/17/06@ 1:48 pm

I’ve never been to Israel, don’t plan to go there, and don’t know how to get the Israelis and Palestinians to stop killing each other. Maybe there’s just too much embedded hate that has accumulated over several generations for it to ever stop. But I understand this much: No reasonable person could possibly believe the Palestinians will ever submit to living in a permanent state of subjugation to Israel. The Palestinians fight like people with nothing left to lose because they have been deprived of nearly everything, and have nothing left to lose.

For #19 & 20: Yes, When Pelletizer can refute truths he acts dumb. Wait a minute he’s a rabbit; can’t get much dumber than that! Well on second thought there’s clueless, dribble, left turbball factslefthimbehind.

“That the drumbeat of rightwing propaganda against the UN has had an effect?” — — No Pelletizer, the multiple mistatements of Kofi Annan has donr more for our side than anything else!

Don’t smoke Pelletizer! Don’t drink Pelletizer!

Let me help you Pelletizer. The California Donk Secy of State said electonic voting machines are fine and she trusts them. Why she controls them stupid rabbit.

Librul Police perform DWB. You are white since you want people to suck your white cottontail. You will never experience DWB. STFU! You have no clue what you are blabbing about!

Puddyliar, I’ll tell you what. If you want to believe the voting machines are manufactured, distributed, programmed, and controlled by Democrats, that’s fine with me! In fact, it improves our chances of working together to solve this problem.

Just to humor you, let’s pretend that companies owned by Democrats make the voting machines, and our side has been rigging the voting machines to steal elections, with the result that Republican voters have been disenfranchised and Democrats have established a one-party government that controls the White House, both houses of Congress, and the judiciary; and that Democrats have been going around imposing peace, education, and jobs on people.

Well, we liberals certainly have been mean to you poor oppressed wingnuts, haven’t we? Tell you what. I agree you fuckers deserve a fair shake at the polls. After all, elections are supposed to be a competition of ideas, are they not? Okay, here’s what I’m willing to do.

Let’s get rid of the voting machines. Every last damned one of ’em. Bring back paper ballots, marked with an “X” in the box, and hand count ’em all.

Sorry nice try Puddybud. Your anti-semitic peeps taunted a jewish cadet at the air force academy with an accusation that HE (the jewish caded) killed Jesus Christ. It’s documented unless you think Mikey Weinstein and his son are lying. It’s been dragged through the courts and there’s a paper trail.

YOUR peeps Puddybud. Do you denounce them? How many of them do you think there are? A handful? Dozens? Hundreds? Thousands?

Puddyliar, I’ll tell you what. If you want to believe the voting machines are manufactured, distributed, programmed, and controlled by Democrats, that’s fine with me! In fact, it improves our chances of working together to solve this problem. Commentby Roger Rabbit— 9/17/06@ 2:12 pm

Skipping the rest of the crap you blogged, where did I say anything you wrote in paragraph one? Facts surely hurt the librul mind!

Now we see the Palestinians tell Israel they will get peace if they leave Gaza and what happens.

That’s such bullshit it’s pathetic. Sharon’s decision was completely unilateral. He didn’t say one word to the Palestinians. He thumbed his nose at them and redeployed his military assets to the West Bank to consolidate his plan there. And why not? Just manage Gaza like the walled-off prison it already was surrounded by the IDF on the land and the Israeli Navy at the sea.

Nun shot in back after mulims get upset at Pope’s comments about Islam. “Whoever offends our prophet Mohammed should be killed on the spot by the nearest muslim.”–Sheik Abubukar Hassan Malin.

Folks, this is for real. Islamofacism is not a joke. It is for real. This people are dead serious. Wake up and quit trying to downplay the threat of islamofacism. It is real and we must fight and not pretend it isn’t there.

I can see you now. In your momâ€™s basement, bra strapped over your head (ala Weird Science), in your tighty whiteys, computer in front of you, your body wrapped in aluminum foil (the â€˜hoods version of teflon) and just knowing any minute Karl Rove will call asking you head the Shit throwing department for the WA State WingFuck party. He will see your words of wit (laced with an anger that you canâ€™t disguise. Anger being the chief weapon of the WingFuck party as you so capably demonstrate here on a daily basis.

If you donâ€™t like living in the hood. MOVE! And donâ€™t tell me how the â€œmanâ€ keeps holding you down. The only thing holding you down is the 40 of Olde English in your hand and the doobie about to burn your lips.

Sorry nice try Puddybud. Your anti-semitic peeps taunted a jewish cadet at the air force academy with an accusation that HE (the jewish caded) killed Jesus Christ. It’s documented unless you think Mikey Weinstein and his son are lying. It’s been dragged through the courts and there’s a paper trail. YOUR peeps Puddybud. Do you denounce them? How many of them do you think there are? A handful? Dozens? Hundreds? Thousands? So back off asshole with that anti-semite name-calling! Commentby For the Clueless— 9/17/06@ 2:14 pm

Wow one example Cluelessness. Keep looking for others. You’ll be looking for a while.

Donâ€™t be upset that I didnâ€™t known what â€œdozensâ€ is. My wife needed no help in playing. Again, the evidence was clearâ€¦..she kicked their asses. Poor defenseless woman. roflmao.

By the way, â€œbrother”, how is it you can even read, let alone converse with, the â€œprotoplasmâ€ out in the Pacific. Surely you have nothing in common with him? Unless of course you are not Black (which I believe to be the case), or in the alternative, you are a self-hating Black man. No man, Black or otherwise, would allow someone to spew the shit that our supposed Pacific island dweller is continually regurgitating, without challenging him openly and continuously. I can only surmise that you agree.

And donâ€™t tell me how you took him to the woodshed over it. That is bullshit and you know it.

By Maggie Haberman @ New York Post (EXCERPT) September 5, 2006 – A string of anti-Semitic rants about Sen. Joe Lieberman have popped up on the liberal MoveOn.org’s open forum Web site, drawing criticism from the Anti-Defamation League. It’s the latest flap in the contentious race between Lieberman, who is running as an independent to keep his seat in Connecticut, and upstart Ned Lamont, the Democratic nominee.

“We recognize that Action Forum is an open forum intended to foster the free flow of ideas,” ADL head Abraham Foxman said in a letter dated Aug. 31 to MoveOn, which supported Lamont in the Democratic primary against Lieberman. “Nevertheless, since such profoundly offensive content is appearing on a board clearly linked to MoveOn.org, we believe you should assume some responsibility to respond to this hateful content,” Foxman wrote in the letter, which was forwarded by Lieberman’s campaign.

Foxman cited examples from the site’s Action Forum, including “media owning Jewish pigs,” “Zionazis,” a reference to the senator as “Jew Lieberman” and the question, “Why are the Jews so Jew-y?”

…in a statement posted on the MoveOn site Saturday, Eli Pariser, executive director of the MoveOn Political Action Committee condemned the anti-Semitic rants…

SO – ARE LIBERALS ANTI-SEMITIC? A) Not THIS liberal…

O’ course, SOME o’ the more extreme lefties in Hollywood, among political activists, in Academia, and on some “liberal” internet forums can be counted among the often shrill voices attacking Israel’s right as a sovereign nation to defend itself. And I find it disturbing to see and hear folks that I agree with politically on a broad range of political, economic and socio-cultural issues parroting the same anti-Zionist propaganda as the Prime Minister of Iran, Osama bin Laden, angry Islamist clerics and terrorist leaders sworn to kill all Western “infidels” – along with all Jews.

Editor-Publisher Mort Zuckerman has written:

Just as historic anti-Semitism has denied individual Jews the right to live as equal members of society, anti-Zionism would deny the collective expression of the Jewish people, the State of Israel, the right to live as an equal member of the family of nations.

The USA is a democracy. So is Israel. Citizens in both countries have the right to criticize Israel’s policies – as they do. However, how much slack should be accorded critics who would deny Israel’s sovereignty as a nation or even Israel’s right to exist? I’m sorry – but I see most pro-Palestinian (and pro-Hezbollah, pro-Hamas) voices in this country, in Europe and in the Middle East as merely parrots repeating anti-Zionist propaganda, misrepresentations and lies. When so-called liberals ally themselves with political and religious extremists who seek the destruction of Israel – they are Anti-Semitic – whether they utter the obscene epithets or couch their hateful purposes in scholarly or polite rhetoric.

I think it’s important for liberals to take a stand against the lefty Anti-Semitics. Call attention to them. We must differentiate our views concerning Israel’s sovereignty and its right to self-defense from the cacophony of angry Anti-Semite voices among tenured, fuzzy-thinking profs in Ivory Towers or the UN Security Council.”

I can see you now. In your momâ€™s basement, bra strapped over your head (ala Weird Science), in your tighty whiteys, computer in front of you, your body wrapped in aluminum foil (the â€˜hoods version of teflon) and just knowing any minute Karl Rove will call asking you head the Shit throwing department for the WA State WingFuck party. Commentby My Left Foot— 9/17/06@ 2:27 pm

Teresa: Does Carl still have those electrodes connected to each side of his neck? Please increase the amperage to the neck area. Karl, I can call you Karl right Karl? Karl, if you paid attention for more that an hour at a time, last week I wrote to some moonbat here my mother is in a cemetery in San Diego. I realize facts escape you and your comprehension and mental retention is low and miniscule. Are you an idiot savant? Good in the military but worthless otherwise?

Now that Disney/ABC have aired their right-wing hit-piece called “The Path to 9/11,” the letter-to-editor columns of newspapers are filled with the rants of wingnut apologists for lying. For example, the Seattle Times today published this letter:

“So now that the TV movie ‘The Path to 9/11’ has aired, I do believe all the complaining liberal editorializers in Northwest Voices [‘Honoring memory,’ Sept. 11] owe everyone an apology. They where whining and complaining about a docudrama that they hadn’t even seen yet.

“Bill Clinton managed to protest and get any mention of Monica Lewinsky taken out. So now there can be peace. Not to mention the letter that threatened ABC with its FCC license, from the ‘tolerant, First Amendment-touting’ liberals.

“How pathetic and disgusting. I know perfectly well why the liberals are so up in arms about this movie. They don’t want the American public to see them for what they truly are: manipulating, controlling mommy figures who think they are the only ones who can take care of us. They are afraid this movie will make them look incompetent. But it is so true.

— Christopher Van Auken, Buckley”

Let’s see, where to start. Well, I can’t start with facts, because there aren’t any in Mr. Van Auken’s letter. The reasonable inference is that he himself has no clue what the facts are, so let’s review:

“The Path to 9/11” is fiction, not objective journalism or careful history. Moreover, it is fiction that was written by a right-wing propagandist named David Horowitz and aired by the right-wing executives who control the Disney-ABC media empire one week before an election for the purpose of influencing said election by filling voters’ eyes and ears with lies.

That is what Mr. Van Auken is defending.

Now let’s suppose that Disney-ABC was controlled by, say, media baron Roger Rabbit. Here’s what I would do. “The Path to 9/11” would show George W. Bush, Dick Cheney, Donald Rumsfeld, and Osama bin Laden sitting at a conference table in the basement of the White House planning the details of 9/11. The episode would include the following dialogue:

OSAMA: $1 billion is fine as a starting point for our negotiations, assuming that’s what the figure is. After all, you don’t expect Michael Jordan to settle for your first offer, do you? I want $5 billion.

CHENEY: $1 billion, take it or leave it.

OSAMA: Tell you what. I’m sure we can get a win-win here. I’ll take $1 billion and the book rights.

BUSH: WHAAAAT?!!! Book rights?! What book? You can’t write a book!!!

OSAMA: Of course I can write a book, and the book rights are always part of the deal.

BUSH: You’re nuts! You can’t write a book about what we planned together.

OSAMA: Sure I can. I always assumed you guys figured I would, and that you would give me the book rights.

BUSH: If you write a book about this, we’ll all hang!

OSAMA: What do you mean ‘we,’ white man? You mean YOU will hang.

BUSH: No book.

OSAMA: Okay, then I want $5 billion.

CHENEY: No, we all agreed you’d get $1 billion.

OSAMA: And the book rights.

CHENEY: No book, period! Absolutely not! $1 billion.

OSAMA: Then you’ll have to get someone else to take down the World Trade Center. Try Saddam. Maybe you can get HIM to do it for $1 billion. A billion bucks doesn’t even cover my expenses. I’m a businessman, not a charity. I have to make a profit.

BUSH: Let’s not be hasty, Dick. After all, we keep a rainy-day fund for contingencies like this, don’t we? (laughs) We can go $2 billion.

OSAMA: Dig a little deeper.

BUSH: That’s our best and final offer.

OSAMA: Bullshit. If you can come up with $2 billion, then you can come up with $4 billion.

Is this bullshit? Of course it is! I just made it up — just like David Horowitz made up the scene of Sandy Berger hanging up on CIA men who said they had Osama in their sights and wanted the okay to take him out. A scene that ABC deleted only after a public outcry over the film’s lies and misrepresentations. What is the difference between Disney-ABC fictionalized the events surrounding 9/ll, and my fictionalizing them?

My script is bullshit, and their script is bullshit too. The only difference is they have more money than I do, so their script got on the air, and mine didn’t.

And now we have apologists for lying like Mr. Van Auken demanding an “apology” for calling Disney-ABC’s lies what they are — lies. Hey Christopher, I’ve got a better idea. Take a deep breath, bend over, and suck your own dick.

I wouldn’t have any problem with “The Path to 9/ll” if ABC had labeled it properly. To wit:

“The following program is a paid infomercial by well-heeled right wing nuts who are going to feed you a pack of lies in an effort to convince you to vote for the people who are looting our country. The show will conclude with a brief presentation on how to get rich by flipping real estate, with a phone number to call to order your starter kit. Please have your credit card number ready, because operators will be standing by.”

“Nun shot in back after mulims get upset at Pope’s comments about Islam. “Whoever offends our prophet Mohammed should be killed on the spot by the nearest muslim.”–Sheik Abubukar Hassan Malin.

Folks, this is for real. Islamofacism is not a joke. It is for real. This people are dead serious. Wake up and quit trying to downplay the threat of islamofacism. It is real and we must fight and not pretend it isn’t there.

Commentby Reality Check— 9/17/06@ 2:23 pm

I notice that you haven’t bothered to see any of the other Muslim leaders speaking out on this topic. For example, Ismail Haniya, the Palestinian prime minister, called on Palestinians on Sunday to refrain from sectarian strife.

“All Palestinian citizens must prevent all harm to all Christian churches on Palestinian land. Our Christian brothers are citizens of Palestine. They are Palestinians,” he said.

If you wish, I can get quotes from “Christians” calling for violence against Muslims. Some have even posted on this board. I use the term “Christians” in quotes, because no follower of Jesus Christ would ever make such a call.

Just because Fox News and the extreme far right consider all Muslims to be “Islamofacists” does not make it true.

“I have to say how interesting I find it to be lectured on free speech by liberals after they just used their government authority to threaten to pull ABC’s broadcasting license if they didn’t suppress the very truthful ‘Path to 911’.

“Now of course our resident liberals will bring up the Reagan movie that CBS was airing, but that it just a strawman. The Republicans never threatened the broadcast license of CBS. And for all the loonies who are going to say they did, I say PROVE IT!

“To date, the only ones trying to suppress free speech are the liberals.

Commentby pbj— 9/15/06@ 4:51 pm”

Item 1: What government authority? You assholes control the government, including the FCC.

Item 2: If you guys can make up shit about 9/ll, why can’t we tell the truth about Reagan?

Item 3: Nobody’s trying to suppress your free speech, which in your case, is the same thing as lying. All we’re asking for is truthful labeling, such as: “This program contains material that is not factual and is intended for propaganda purposes.” Just like your posts on HA.

Item 4: Very truthful? Even the producers of the show didn’t call it journalism or history, they called it “drama.” They admitted it’s a fictional made-for-TV movie. If you think “The Path to 9/ll” is truthful, you also probably are hoping for a ride on the Star Trek spaceship to the constellation Orion, too.

That’s the trouble with UFOs. They abduct these fucks, perform sexual experiments on them, fill their heads with bullshit, then dump them back here on earth. I wish the aliens would just kill these fuckers after abducting them.

Falk is just your typical jack-booted, nazi-lovin, kkk-lovin, right wing turd. The only difference between him and most of the right wingers is that he’s up front about his redneck, anti-social views. He’s just this side of a cult leader and the only reason he’s NOT a cult leader is that few are stupid enough to follow him.

You don’t support your own Christian peeps? Yes Puddy read the article in WAPO about Mikey Weinstein. They are Christian and believe in a military driven and led by hard-core Christians. What’s there not to support for you?

If you believe they’re a little misguided, the least you can do is denounce their anti-semitism. Don’t you denounce any kind of racism?

In regards to the ABC movie. Has anyone noticed that nobody except us is talking about it?

As I expected, most folks watched something else.

Let’s see: – NFL Football had a 15.1 rating and a 23 share – A rerun of CBS’s 9/11 documentary had an 8.2 rating and a 12 share – The ABC movie also had an 8.2 rating and a 12 share.

A recent rerun of CSI had an 11.0 rating and a 17 share.

Yes, the movie was a hack job and a deliberate attempt to alter the historical record. They spent a pile of money making it. It flopped. A few folks on the far right will get bootleg copies and wear out the part where President Clinton doesn’t shoot Osama binLadin, watching it over and over again with all their buddies.

Jeez it looks like David Postman only got part of the story about who is running this campaign for his boss. Go figure. Now I think David is a good guy but too much detail here could be bat for his future.

“I think we may have attempted to solve a problem a year or two in advance of when we should have put it on the ballot… Maybe we should have let these homosexuals carry on with their recruiting of our children for another year or so. As they flaunt their deviant behavior in the face of the general public, the public will become concerned and we’ll get it on the ballot again.” Dennis Falk

WOW, what a piece of work this guy is. He lives on Fox Island. Good. Maybe we can place an armada around it and keep him from harming the rest of us.

SillyGuY, I need to you check if the quote is accurate and if I am on topic. As a liberal, I am in a constant state of confusion, or so you believe. Help me out, please.

Left Foot – You again have shown a total lack of sense in your replies. You are the true essense of a partisan i.e. you have a very closed mind and are unwilling to listen any other points of view. When you can’t reply with facts you attack the person!

I hope your family enjoys your points of view! Please enjoy the rest of the weekend.

I know that you believe that polls showing the American people’s attitudes should be our guide. In that case, I am sure that you now share the American people’s strong beliefs that: – the war in Iraq is not worth fighting (56%) – the Bush Administration does not have a clear plan for handling the situation in Iraq (61%) – the war in Iraq is separate from the war on terrorism (53%) – things in this country are heading off on the wrong track (63%) – and, of course, if the election for U.S. House of Representatives were held today, you would vote for the Democratic candidate in your congressional district (53%)

My brother is an attorney. He says, and I tend more and more to think so, that “everything is negotiable.” So as much as you guys love the exercise of deadly force and believe that it justifies all (unless Saddam exercises it, right?), it, umm, …doesn’t.

So now the Pope has joined president Islamofascist Clash of Civilizations in aiding al Qaida in their quest provoke a religious war, polarize the Islamic world, and force most Muslims to line up on the side of jihad.

It is not I with the closed mind. I believe in free speech, the ruling party believes I should shut up. I believe in open government that responds to the people. (We the people and all that) the ruling party believes in telling me what is good for me and lies to me for my own good.

My mind is open. I am willing to accept diversity, willing to accept that we should be free to love whomever we choose. Willing to accept (though I don’t agree with abortion) that a woman has the right to choose as it is her body. I am willing to accept and listen to criticism of my beliefs, I am willing to compromise on most any issue. Willing to meet in the middle.

However, your party, including Ney, DeLay, Frist and Cunningham believe that power, wealth and personal gain are the order of the day. When you are called on it you bring up ancient history. (yes, Congress Jefferson should resign).

Your party takes a lie, builds a house on it and then cries foul when the lie collapses into a sink hole, taking the house with it. WMD, the link between Saddam and terrorists, no exit plan, non bid contracting (see Haliburton), a military that lies (see Tillman incident and Abu Ghrabe (sp)). a president who is unresponsive (see Katrina disaster), a president who cries terrorist and appeaser (much like Hitler cried Jews)….Shall I continue? The bankruptcy law change that penalizes the unfortunate and rewards the banks (it makes no exception for those destroyed by medical, natural disaster or other emergencies), the attempted usurping of the constitution in the name of national security, wire taps, neighbors spying on neighbors, arrests without warrants, and now, your party wants to be able to put people on trial and find them guilty with evidence that they won’t be able to see or was beaten out them (legally of course) via water boarding and other barbaric means. Soon you will want to use the same methods on thieves and other common criminals. All this without seeing how we are becoming exactly the same as those you profess to despise.

You are the one with the closed mind and eyes, not I. Not any clear thinking American.

I am liberal (look the word up, asshole) I am Democrat and I am God Damned proud to be so.

I am voting, I am speaking out. I have put my name on my posts. You, as the others on your side, Richard Pope being an exception, rarely do. You hide, condemn and attack from your anonymity. A loud cacophony of lies, deceit and baseless attacks.

So the next time you come here and try to put me in my place, you best think harder. I can defend my positions quite well.

By that standard (that of cherry-picking commenters and characterizing a site based on their comments), you could denounce Horse’s Ass as the home of homophobic genocidal racists. But that’s just JCH, right?

James Madison 1788 – Federalist No. 41How could a readiness for war in time of peace be safely prohibited, unless we could could prohibit, in like manner, the preparations and establishments of every hostile nation? Reference: The Federalist

Joseph Story 1833 – Commentaries on the ConstitutionIt is important also to consider, that the surest means of avoiding war is to be prepared for it in peace. Reference: Story, Commentaries on the Constitution, 415.

George Washington 1790 – First Annual MessageTo be prepared for war, is one of the most effectual means of preserving peace. Reference: George Washington: A Collection, W.B. Allen, ed. (468)

George Washington 1793 – Fifth Annual MessageThere is a rank due to the United States, among nations, which will be withheld, if not absolutely lost, by the reputation of weakness. If we desire to avoid insult, we must be able to repel it; if we desire to secure peace, one of the most powerful instruments of our rising prosperity, it must be known that we are at all times ready for war. Reference: George Washington: A Collection, W.B. Allen, ed. (488)

Alexander Hamilton 1787 – Federalist No. 25War, like most other things, is a science to be acquired and perfected by diligence, by perserverance, by time, and by practice. Reference: The Federalist

Thomas Jefferson 1805 – Second Inaugural AddressWe are firmly convinced, and we act on that conviction, that with nations as with individuals our interests soundly calculated will ever be found inseparable from our moral duties, and history bears witness to the fact that a just nation is trusted on its word when recourse is had to armaments and wars to bridle others. Reference: Jefferson: Writings, Peterson ed., Library of America (518)

Patrick Henry 1775 – speech in the Virginia ConventionThe battle, sir, is not to the strong alone; it is to the vigilant, the active, the brave. Reference: American Heritage Dictionary of American Quotations (130)

Thomas Paine 1776 – The American Crisis, No. 1These are the times that try men’s souls. The summer soldier and the sunshine patriot will, in this crisis, shrink from the service of his country; but he that stands it now, deserves the love and thanks of man and woman. Reference: Thomas Paine: Collected Writings , Foner ed., Library of America (91)

Thomas Paine 1776 – The Crisis, no 1I love the man that can smile in trouble, that can gather strength from distress, and grow brave by reflection. ‘Tis the business of little minds to shrink; but he whose heart is firm, and whose conscience approves his conduct, will pursue his principles unto death. Reference: respec. Quoted

George Washington 1776 – General OrdersWe have therefore to resolve to conquer or die: Our won Country’s Honor, all call upon us for vigorous and manly exertion, and if we now shamefully fail, we shall become infamous to the whole world. Let us therefore rely upon the goodness of the Cause, and the aid of the supreme Being, in whose hands Victory is, to animate and encourage us to great and noble Actions. Reference: George Washington: A Collection, W.B. Allen, ed. (71)…

It doesn’t bother me a bit to make sure the public knows the Nordstrom family donates lots of cash to a movement led by an ex-cop who was kicked off the force because he liked to shoot retarded black kids in the back. I’m also curious why Falk is personally so cranked up over the inheritance tax–could he have collected so much from the old “tolerance policy” payoff system that it might actually affect what he has to pass on to his own heirs?

77 I am not a WingNut, I am a moonbat. You are the WingNut. Try to keep up.

I did notice that you refuted nothing that I said. I made charges, expressed an opinion and all you can do is attack me yet again.

Now, since you did not refute my charges and opinion, I have concluded that you agree with me, but that you just don’t like my M.O.

Please, crawl back under the rock from which you came and continue your nap. when you next awaken, the House will be Democratic (Maybe the Senate too) and we will have taken the first steps right the wrong your kind has wrought upon this wonderful country.

Enjoy your evening. Must be comforting to have your head in the sand AND the wool pulled over your eyes.

Every one of the quotes you listed were from men fighting for freedom from tyranny. Right here on our soil. The boats and soldiers were lining up and invading.

I know you are going to claim that the terrorists are doing the same, but, it is not the same. It was a random act of violence. The guilty were punished in Afghanistan. The threat is recognized and we are vigilant in our approach to the threat.

You wish equate the war for independence with one act of terrorism makes no sense. They are a gnat on the ass of lion. You are willing to blow up half the world to “protect” us from exactly what? When they have lined up soldiers on ships in Elliot Bay I will be there, guns blazing.

Now, see if you can find an example of might making right…. Because it does not. Remember please that the British had the might back then.

Somehow you seem to confuse the responsibility of any government to protect its citizens with a desire to go to war.

None of the posts you put forward indicates a “might makes right” mentality, while our present government does seem to have just such an opinion.

Liberals are not afraid to go to war when it is necessary for our protection. FDR is reviled by many conservatives to this very day, yet when we were attacked by a military force, he went before Congress and called for a declaration of war.

Today, we are fighting a war against a nation that did not attack us, while ignoring the actions that could bring us closer to actually finding and capturing the criminals that did attack us. In the opinion of many, the actions we are currently taking will actually help the people that attacked us.

Many of the quotes you give above speak of being “ready for war”. Liberals do not disagree, and history concurs. The best way to prevent war is to be ready for it.

But the pendulum can swing too far. Being ready for war does not mean being eager for it. Prevention of war is the goal, not the starting of one. No matter how evil Saddam Hussein was (and is), he was not a credible threat to our country at the time we invaded.

One of the main reasons for having a strong military is so that you never have to use it. This seems contradictory on its face, but is nonetheless true. Going to war is the ultimate failure of diplomacy. We had managed to contain Saddam Hussein for years, and we had gotten very good at it.

I found: 137 lawyers named “Teresa” in New York State (variants not allowed), 173 lawyers with the name “Teresa” or some variant in Washington, and the Illinois bar association does not have a first-name-only search function.

Now, if you were looking for someone with the last name of “****” then I can see where you found no records.

Sorry, but some databases do not use the “****” as a wildcard.

Perhaps before you start calling someone a “LIAR”, you should do a bit more checking? Mine took about five minutes.

I know that you believe that polls showing the American people’s attitudes should be our guide. In that case, I am sure that you now share the American people’s strong beliefs that: – the war in Iraq is not worth fighting (56%) – the Bush Administration does not have a clear plan for handling the situation in Iraq (61%) – the war in Iraq is separate from the war on terrorism (53%) – things in this country are heading off on the wrong track (63%) – and, of course, if the election for U.S. House of Representatives were held today, you would vote for the Democratic candidate in your congressional district (53%) Commentby Daddy Love— 9/17/06@ 4:41 pm

Little Daddy: If you look at what Darryl wrote, Puddy was responding and he responded well. You are leaving the thread bringing up an off-topic issue. Good try at deflection. I see you learned from the paw of Furball.

Puddybud @ 41 By that standard (that of cherry-picking commenters and characterizing a site based on their comments), you could denounce Horse’s Ass as the home of homophobic genocidal racists. But that’s just JCH, right? Same lying bullshit, different day. Commentby Daddy Love— 9/17/06@ 4:58 pm

Do you know who Mort Zuckerman? What does he do?

Times up because you’d have to Google it. He’s the US News & World Report Editor. He’s BIG TIME DONK! If he says moonbats are anti-semitic, I guess it hits home huh Daddy Love.

Yes your bullshit shine through. In fact you are the pure definition of Bullshittium.

Again, I did not make the statement you attribute to me. All I did was point out that the quotes you cited, in my opinion, do not apply to today. I realize that in the past you have had some trouble reading, comprehending and generally keeping up. We try to make allowances for you.

Some more for you on the subject of Teresa. She told you she practices under her maiden name and her first name. You are assuming that Teresa is her first name.

I am telling you this because John Barelli has spent time invalidating your claims and I don’t wish for him to do so anymore. He writes eloquently. I look forward to him tearing the WingNuts to pieces. Teresa is her middle name, which she goes by informally, among friends and family. But all the data base searches in the world won’t give you a clue without information that you don’t have and are unlikely to get. Her wish to remain anonymous is the same as yours. So whatever stigma you attach to that belongs to you too. You may assume whatever you wish. We assume the same of you. It gets all of us nowhere.

Try sticking to the issues instead of “investigating” everyone. I know you are bitter and upset that the balance of power is shifting left again. Well not left so much as back to the center. It hurts, I know. I have suffered 12 years of your parties control.

The difference this time is you are hurting and me, well, I am overjoyed that we are taking our damn country back.

And since I can’t resist giving it to you because you really don’t like it, although I think secretly, you love the attention. You are really nothing more than a neurotic crate of musty compost.

ProudOfHerFatFuckingLyingAss has suddenly gone silent. She was bluffing got caught and now does not know what to do.

Leave, that is what you should do. Just leave. Your only skill is using google to search and posting your results here, all the while pretending, that she knows something. Tonight she became a history expert as well as a gumshoe. Trouble is, she is neither.

Neither of us is angry. We are laughing our asses off over here. There is no way you have the right information. No way on God’s green earth.

You still want to harp on the picture that I posted, we think you are very mean to that nice young lady. It is true, Mean Girls, like you, suck. And not in a good way.

So, post it OneWhoKnowsEverything. Teresa just said she will take the case against you pro bono (that means at no charge). Says it will take two subpoenas to have your info, or the info of whoever owns the ISP account and the computer you are using to bang out your bullshit.

You are the tormented one. Why I bet you just about shit when I did not beg you not to post your “information”. You are so sure that you are protected by the “public information” clause that you “cited”, why aren’t you posting the “information”? I will tell you why. You are chickenshit. You are lying. You are sitting there in your chair thinking “Oh fuck! I went to far”. Now you have a credibility issue and a pride issue. If you don’t post your credibility goes down the toilet (not that you had so much anyway) and your pride (however unfounded that may be) goes with it. Just a swirly shit down the drain.

I will be here for a while. After your heart stops beating out of your chest and you have wiped the sweat off your upper lip, you can admit you were wrong and apologize, not that I will accept, but at least your mind will be able to rest knowing you did the right thing once in your miserable life.

You really don’t get it do you. The picture is not Teresa. All your commenting on it is wasting your time, but that is your business.

Post the WSBA info you lying chicken shit bitch. You are lying and the entire blog now know it (not that I care).

This place is your life. I am watching football with the lovely and intelligent Mrs Left Foot, calling your bluff. How sad your life must be in the trailer park in Renton. Husband left, kids out of control. Your only outlet to the world is right here. Have you tried a singles chat room? Or did they boot you from there?

You really don’t get it. No one is angry you sanctimonious, dried up prune. You have my last name GROSSMAN you have her MIDDLE name. You have nothing to lead you to her licensed name. You are lying, You are caught.

Not hiding. I am right here. Carl Grossman. WA state resident, Democrat, Liberal.

You don’t have it, admit you are lying.

Or post it.

Freedom of speech is a wonderful thing. I admit my wife does not approve, but I am willing to accept her disapproval. Small price to pay for this ass kicking you are taking.

Daddy Love: “So now the Pope has joined president Islamofascist Clash of Civilizations in aiding al Qaida in their quest provoke a religious war, polarize the Islamic world, and force most Muslims to line up on the side of jihad.

Whose side are these idiots on?”

Would you prefer that we all just keep quiet, and not disturb the murderous fanatics? Why don’t we just submit to them now, and forget all this nonsense about freedom of speech, and democracy. With attitudes like yours, we are lost.

I just noticed the bad attorney comment. OOOOOOH, that hurts. Licensed to practice in FOUR states as well as SCOTUS. Your opinion means so much to me, I might have to reevaluate my relationship with her, because obviously I need to be with someone with your high morals, intelligence and beauty. Stop, I can’t do this with a straight face. I am busting a gut laughing.

No kidding sweetcheeks, I told the wifeypoo days ago that I knew the pic wasn’t her. But I also commented how pathetically it reflected upon her that you would choose a phone-boobed, big hair, tacky HeeHaw heroine to depict her, and suggested she might want to wonder how your fantasy reflects on your relationship with her.

No sweetcheeks, I won’t post out of respect for her privacy and out of respect for her safety concerns. You can believe that or not. But frankly, I am convinced you would not be as gracious, that you would harm my children or lead others to do so with pleasure. Your “wife” is an adult. I have childrren that are not and it is my duty to protect them from the evil you are. I don’t consider that cowardice, I consider that SMART.

You like to call conservatives evil, when in fact it is you that play down in the dirt.

“Would you prefer that we all just keep quiet, and not disturb the murderous fanatics? Why don’t we just submit to them now, and forget all this nonsense about freedom of speech, and democracy. With attitudes like yours, we are lost.”

No. Disturbing the murderous fanatics is not the problem or the issue. Nothing we say will change their minds.

Disturbing the non-murderous devout Muslims is a different matter. Unlike our culture, where using Jesus’ name “in vain” is common, using the Prophet’s name in vain in most Muslim countries will, at the very least, get you backhanded across the mouth. In many countries it will get you arrested. They take it very seriously.

One of the tools that the fanatics use in recruiting these simply devout Muslims is our willingness to insult their Prophet.

Speaking out against fanatics is perfectly reasonable. What the Pope did, (without meaning to, in my opinion) was to push a very hot button that had already been pushed earlier with the cartoons being published.

In doing things like this, and in dealing with devout (but not fanatic) Muslims without bothering to understand or respect their culture we are giving the fanatics one more tool to keep these otherwise reasonable people from trying to understand and work with us.

The fanatics do not, under any circumstances, want a dialog between us and the devout Muslims. They do not want us talking. They do not want us to try to understand each other.

They want hatred and jihad between us. We need to fight them, while not giving them any more tools to keep us away from the rest of the Islamic world, because in the end, this will not be won on the battlefield or even in the courtrooms. It will be won when the best of their culture and the best of our culture comes together and squeezes out those who prefer hatred to progress.

It can be fun. It got your attention. Mrs Left Foot is very proud of me. I am a gentleman.

As for proudofherfatass, you speak eloquently, but you can’t put lipstick on a pig. You are lying. You have nothing.

Your concern is not your kids. Your concern is the lawsuit you would face. The information you have is incorrect. Unless you have conjured up her last name via a seance. I would go into my full background but boasting in not my way. I am proud of my wife, to be sure, but far more humble about my own accomplishments. But your concern is of your own making, not based on anything you know about me. Just what you have made up in your own mind.

I think you are a liar. I think your mouth overloaded your ass. Now you need a gracefull way out.

gentleman –noun, plural -men. 1. a man of good family, breeding, or social position. 2. (used as a polite term) a man: Do you know that gentleman over there? 3. gentlemen, (used as a form of address): Gentlemen, please come this way.4. a civilized, educated, sensitive, or well-mannered man: He behaved like a true gentleman. 5. a male personal servant, esp. of a man of social position; valet. 6. a male attendant upon a king, queen, or other royal person, who is himself of high birth or rank. 7. a man of good social standing, as a noble or an armigerous commoner. 8. a man with an independent income who does not work for a living. 9. a male member of the U.S. Senate or House of Representatives: The chair recognizes the gentleman from Massachusetts. 10. History/Historical. a man who is above the rank of yeoman.

Right.

Unless of course you were referring to definition #5… then I could see how your anger could get the best of you.

Barelli – I am tired of walking on egg shells hoping I don’t offend some dovout or fanatical Muslim. That is their way to intimidate us and dominate our lives. I refuse to live in fear.

Muslims need to join the modern era. If someone offends them, they need to educate those offenders, not threaten to kill them. Until they take this very minor step into civilization, it is impossible to have a dialog with them.

Muslims are not mindless robots. They have free will, just like you and me. If they want to willingly follow an imam that declares us infidels, and orders his followers to kill us, then those who follow are guilty. They cannot hide behind their religion.

No kidding sweetcheeks, I told the wifeypoo days ago that I knew the pic wasnâ€™t her.

This can be taken two ways. I see how it could me Teresa you were referring to or your own wife. Point taken.

Now, kiss my ass and post. Although, I suppose you can’t post what you don’t have. We have no fear because you have nothing. Also, not that it will make difference, you have my word that I would never harm you or your children. That would be counter to what I dedicated my career to.

You, sweetcheeks, are not being baited. Your bluff is being called. You don’t have the nerve or you flat out have nothing. You are a liar. It is very simple. You are also frightened. If you screw this up, your “family” business could go POOF!

Opened your mouth and crammed your foot in….all the way to the knee.

You can get off the hook simply by admitting your mistake (WingNut word for lying your ass off).

Rights – I already did. Just the fact that you wrote this proves you are scared, and the fanatics have won with those on the left. Why should I be afraid to put my name to a letter stating that Muslims are human beings, capable of rational thought?

I find it mind-boggling that the left just wants to appease those who are a danger to them. Since when did speaking to truth go away?

I see how you walk in the gutter, and then claim the high road. The website was found by typing “insult generator” into google. If you want to follow the links and look at the pictures, be my guest. I was just entertained by the generator itself. Quite clever actually.

Now, as far as being concerned for your kids, HOGWASH. Just part of your high road folly. Just like being considerate of Teresa and not “OUTING” her. Laughable.

You are sad and pathetic. You made a statement, I called your bluff. You folded. You were creative in the folding, which I predicted in the very beginning.

You have proven yourself to be a liar and a fraud.

I have enjoyed this banter, but until you post what you don’t have,

Game Set Match to Carl and Teresa

I was disheartened to find out all Democrats are violent crazies. Here I thought it was the Republicans who believed might makes right. Wait, you did post trying to prove that. And you think I am one to be frightened of. ROFLMAO.

You call this a litterbox. You know the old saying about if you roll with the pigs in the mud? Guess what sweetie, you walk in the “litterbox” you are one of the kitties. Either that or the puppy eating the kitty rocca. Which is it, pumpkin?

Post the information.

You don’t have it. You’ve lied yourself into a corner. I may be rude at times, which is not a crime by the way, but I have not lied here. You can not say the same.

Teresa and I await your posting of the information. We are not holding our breath.

It one thing to be full of bluster and hyperbole, it is another to lie. Your bluff got called, you folded. Gutless wonder.

Rising when we fall and learning when we lose Keith Ellison’s Excuse Brigade — the “don’t touch Keith” crowd in the DFL, the media and the blogosphere — has gone into overdrive for the man who is the DFL’s choice to represent Minnesota’s Fifth Congressional District in our nation’s capital. The Brigade cut its teeth on Ellison’s 40 or so unpaid parking tickets, and his nine moving violations since 2000. Its candidate hit the campaign trail in June with a suspended driver’s license, thanks to his failure to pay his fines. This was nothing new for Ellison, who seemed unfazed. “I don’t know how many prior suspensions I’ve had,” he told the Star Tribune. “I don’t keep count.”

In dismissing Ellison’s irresponsibility, the Excuse Brigade didn’t even break a sweat. What’s a suspended driver’s license when you’re an attorney fighting for social justice? Sometimes your great work can’t wait (speeding ticket), and sometimes you’ve got to fight for the oppressed no matter how long it takes (expired meter).

Ellison’s defenders brushed off their candidate’s $25,000 in unpaid back taxes — incurred some years ago and later paid — in a similar spirit. Let’s face it: When you’re on a crusade to right big wrongs, you’ve got little time for the petty details of personal life — license suspensions or tax liens. Anyway, this stuff has nothing to do with running the people’s business, right?

Ellison’s lengthy history of campaign-finance disclosure violations posed a greater challenge. The state attorney general sued him twice over filings, and his record includes numerous warnings, a default judgment and a collection agency. When Ellison accepted the DFL nomination in May, he faced fines of over $2,500, including $1,500 for a “willful” violation that could have been charged as a criminal gross misdemeanor.

But it’s Ellison’s history of support for Louis Farrakhan — and the notoriously anti-white, anti-Semitic Nation of Islam — that has set the Excuse Brigade scrambling. Ellison says that his association with the Nation of Islam was limited to 18 months in the mid-1990s — a claim that the Brigade has repeated.

He also says that he failed to scrutinize Farrakhan’s positions sufficiently. Today, Ellison proclaims brotherly love, and all is forgiven.

But facts are stubborn things.

Ellison’s support for Farrakhan dates from at least 1989, when he wrote an article defending “Minister Farrakhan” for the Minnesota Daily. In 1995, he was a Minnesota organizer for the Million Man March, which the Nation of Islam convened. In 1997, Ellison publicly supported the executive director of the Minneapolis Initiative Against Racism when she allegedly called Jews “among the most racist white people.” The Star Tribune described Ellison as a “representative” of the Nation of Islam in an article about the incident. In 1998, when Ellison made his first run for the Minnesota House of Representatives, the paper described him as “well-known in the black community as … a supporter of Louis Farrakhan and the Nation of Islam.”

The Excuse Brigade has sought to counter these inconvenient facts by falling back on the nuclear option — the B word. Folks who draw attention to Ellison’s support for Farrakhan are bigots, they say. Case closed.

So far, the Excuse Brigade has said little about the latest Ellison revelation. A few weeks ago, Nihad Awad, executive director of the Council on American-Islamic Relations in Washington, appeared at an Ellison fundraiser, and he and at least one other CAIR employee have donated to Ellison’s campaign. Sen. Charles Schumer (D-N.Y.) described CAIR as an organization “which we know has ties to terrorism.”

Mike Erlandson, an Ellison opponent in the primary election, criticized Ellison for appearing with Awad, whom Erlandson described as a supporter of the Palestinian group Hamas.

Why is the Excuse Brigade pouring so much energy into Ellison’s defense? Any other candidate with half this record would likely be persona non grata in any political party.

The truth is plain, if unpalatable. Many are willing to overlook Ellison’s record because they are breathless with excitement at the chance to send the first Muslim — and the first black Minnesotan — to Congress.

Ellison’s candidacy may be a defining moment for the DFL. Is this the new face of the party of Hubert Humphrey? Heavy hitters such as Walter Mondale and Mayor R.T. Rybak have endorsed Ellison, and DFL fundraisers extraordinaire Sam and Sylvia Kaplan have raised big bucks for him.

The question of the hour is this: Is Ellison’s DFL also the party of Amy Klobuchar and Mike Hatch? We have six weeks to find out.

“Barelli – I am tired of walking on egg shells hoping I don’t offend some dovout or fanatical Muslim. That is their way to intimidate us and dominate our lives. I refuse to live in fear.”

Who says walk on eggshells? Most of the mistakes we make are of the most basic varieties. We’re rude.

Is it “walking on eggshells” to avoid deliberately insulting someone? Around here, perhaps that is so. But in the real world, common courtesy goes a long way.

Have a contest to deliberately create insulting caricatures of the major figure in one of the world’s largest religions. Criticize anyone that dares say this was a bad idea. After all, we shouldn’t have to “walk on eggshells”.

The major papers in the United States were criticized for choosing not to publish them, and many of our own fanatics, who also prefer hate and jihad to dialog went out of their way to put them out on the web and in other forums in the most insulting ways possible.

How is it that not deliberately insulting their most revered religious figure becomes “walking on eggshells”? Throughout most of Christian history, speaking of Jesus the way many folks speak of Muhammad would have gotten you tortured to death, not by the Church, but by the villagers.

These days we call it “brave” and “forward”, but what it really comes down to is often deliberate and calculated rudeness, and then we add additional insult by expecting them to “toughen up”. After all, just because we deliberately tried to offend them is no reason for them to be offended.

Unlike most Americans, these people actually believe in their religion. It isn’t just something to do with the family on Christmas and Easter.

It isn’t a matter of living in fear. It is a matter of what used to be called “common courtesy”. There was a time, not so long ago when people in this country did not deliberately insult the religion of another. This is not a matter of free speech, it is a matter of respect.

Yes, in this country, we are now free to show a complete disregard of our own religions, and show our utter and complete contempt for those of anyone else.

And then we’re also free to wonder why folks don’t like us. And then the fanatics are free to use our own arrogance as a wedge to keep their devout (but not fanatic) people from having a real dialog with us.

Tell me, Janet. What works better with you? The insults that I see you getting here on a daily basis, or rational dialog, respecting your dignity? I’m of the impression that if I respect your dignity, even while I’m strongly opposing what you say, we are more likely to find some common ground and actually might understand each other’s perspective.

Or, I could use all the words I’ve seen other use. I’m an old Sailor, and I know a few that I haven’t seen used here yet. I could insult your religion, family and person.

I do not, as you have probably already noticed, “walk on eggshells” for anyone. I speak my mind, and do so rather forcefully. Yet, at the same time, I can still treat you with the respect you are due as a human being.

Can’t you manage to do the same with someone of another culture? Shouldn’t we insist that our public figures do the same? It really isn’t difficult.

I spent quite a bit of time in the Muslim countries while on active duty. I had shipmates that managed to get into trouble, because they could not manage the basics of everyday courtesy. I found it pretty easy to get along.

Smile, don’t curse, don’t disturb people at prayer, say “please” and “thank you”. Graduate level courtesy in the Arab world includes not using your left hand to eat or give things to people, but they knew we were foreigners, so it wasn’t mandatory. Wow. Tough stuff. “Walking on eggshells”.

Surprisingly enough, their culture places great value on tolerance and hospitality. You have to do something really stupid like, say, insulting the Prophet, or deliberately insulting their culture to get them angry.

Oh, and the sailors that got into trouble? One got publicly drunk and made a crude pass at a woman in traditional Muslim clothing. Another decided to preach to people coming out of Friday prayers at a Mosque. Both later claimed that they were just exercising “free speech”.

Personally, I would have left them in that Jordanian jail for at least a few extra days, but lucky for them, it wasn’t up to me. Speech should be free. Stupidity should be expensive.

Man, I am always amazed when I come here and read the right-wing posts. These people are so unhinged it almost seemed faked, as if they were CIA plants designed to make blogging unbearably unpleasant for normal people.

As for the Christian Patriots, those people are scary with a capital S. I always hate it when right-wingers take real facts, like one lone nut didn’t take down the OKC Building, and then roll it into a big ball of right wing crap that they read in the American Free Press.

Truth is not subjective, it’s simply been obscured. What we need is less ideology, less editorial slant, and more commitment to uncovering the truth.

Truth is not subjective, it’s simply been obscured. What we need is less ideology, less editorial slant, and more commitment to uncovering the truth. When will Goldy insitute a no-freakin’-lunatics policy? Commentby Tahoma Activist— 9/18/06@ 6:46 am

So when the MSM smears truths because it would make GWB or conservatives look good it’s okay because they are on your side?

Janet S is confident that baiting Islamists into more war will help her Halliburton stock go up and she has nothing to fear since her sons won’t be doing any of the fighting. Commentby RightEqualsStupid— 9/18/06@ 6:59 am

Barelli – stop lecturing about courtesy and manners. If that is what you think this is about, you are way too far gone to reason with. Either that or you purposely cloud the issue. Are you accuing the Pope of being rude? How absurd. He was giving a scholarly speech, quoting many sources. That fanatics took out one piece and, rather than use words and reason to prove why these are no longer true, they burned down churches and killed a nun.

Rights- When you start using reason and argument in your posts, I’ll respond in the future. You present nothing to refute what I said, only invective. Which is what happens when you are on the losing end of an argument.

John Barelli has never, to my knowledge, that could be remotely considered INVECTIVE (Definition from Dictionary.com: 1. Of, relating to, or characterized by insult, abuse, or denunciatory language.)

He is always polite, well written and on topic. It is you who uses talking points that are not your own words. It is you who injects “polite” invective. (Not to mention using words that you have no clue the meaning of).

The next time you decide to deride someone here, pick a target who deserves it. Like me. I am rude, crude, and throw shit as well as any RightWingNut out there. I am full of invective, insults, insolence, contempt, dislike, invidiousness, loathing and disgust.

You are just like that other dumb bitch. proudofherfatlyingbluffingass, you want to post so you just bang on the keyboard hoping that something comes out that makes sense.

Now Pam, put the keyboard away and try a bit more Baileys in the coffee. It will ease the pain and help you sleep.

And look, I did not use one work that (un)SP would refuse to to allow (except maybe bitch).

Left Foot – you need to learn how to read. I accused of Rightsnonsense with invective, not John Barelli. Barelli is just guilty of being naive, that good manners will ward of the evil of Islamic fanaticism.

Nice to know, though, that you hold yourself to a much lower standard when it comes to rhetoric and argument.

Clueless – what part of my argument do you disagree with? Do you condone the actions of fanatics who burn down churches and threaten the Pope with death? How do you propose we, in the civilized world, deal with them? Calling me names is a sure-fire method.

Did you look up diatribe? I am nasty, mean and angry. Your side has taken this country down a road where evil resides on both sides. TWO FUCKING THIRDS of Americans agree with me. But you, the Morally Superior Race still believe you have the right and duty to tell us what to do. You rail against those of us who speak out against the direction the Morally Superior Race is taking us. You say were are confused, conflicted and have no right to speak out against the Morally Superior Race. You attempt to silence us by drowning out our cries with more lies, more invective.

You threaten (proudofherfatlyingass did that last night, when I called her bluff, she retreated like the little bitch she is, stood in the gutter and called it the high road) us with terror and attack, when the truth is that it simply has not happened.

2. Men and women (young men, young women, sons, daughters, brothers, sisters, moms and dads) are dying needlessly for a war begun on lies and self-serving interests.

3. My civil rights are threatened by an administration that suddenly is wiser than our founding fathers and who therefore wish to just burn the Constitution and the Bill of Rights right before our eyes and give us a new one.

4. The president, your president, is an idiot.

5. I have not touched on foreign relations, because except for Britain, we have none left. (and Britain is about to have a governmental change due to Mr. Blair’s support of the US policy, so those relations are soon to be in the toilet too)

There is my argument as to why we need change. There is nothing you can say to refute those points. Nothing. This admistration is built on lies with the sole purpose being to enrich those involved personally and to retain power.

Left Foot – your anger is clouding your eye sight. Seen the gas pumps lately? If you are paying $3.00 per gallon, you are using premium to fill your gas guzzling SUV. Everyone else is paying less, and the price is going down.

Where exactly is the President curtailing your civil rights? Any authority given in the Patriot Act was approved by Congress, including a large number of democrats. Can you tell me, specifically, what you are not able to do now that you were previously able to do?

The current discussion involves terrorists captured in combat. Do you really believe they should be accorded more rights than any US citizen? That is what McCain and company are arguing, and Bush is saying is the path to defeat. Islamic fanatics have little use for Geneva Conventions. We can follow them or not, it won’t save a single beheading. But if you want to sacrifice women and children in order to preserve the dignity of a terrorist, be prepared for the next attack. They already see us as weak, this only proves them right.

As for comment 5 – seen Australia lately? They are demanding loyalty oaths from their imams. Seems they want the religious leaders to put country before fanaticism.

Last challenge – see if you can engage in dialog without swear words or personal attacks.

Isn’t it convenient for Bush. He gets on the phone to his oil industry pals and says lower the price of gas for a few months and let’s see if we can con the American people into voting for us one more time. Then poof – all of a sudden the prices will go right back up after the election. And if Americans fall for this shit, they deserve everything they get and then some.

I am not goading you. I am not infuriated. I am taking pleasure in pointing out you bluffed, lost and now need a way out. You spin it any way you choose. You say you have information, you threaten to post, I call the the bluff, you back down.

There is nothing for me to be infuriated about. It is you who are afraid of you own shadow. Just explain how your “children” are threatened by “outing” my wife? There is no connection. Just like there is no connection with your “information” on my wife.

Barelli – stop lecturing about courtesy and manners. If that is what you think this is about, you are way too far gone to reason with. Either that or you purposely cloud the issue. Are you accuing the Pope of being rude? How absurd. He was giving a scholarly speech, quoting many sources. That fanatics took out one piece and, rather than use words and reason to prove why these are no longer true, they burned down churches and killed a nun.

First, you should perhaps read my statements before answering them. I believe my exact phrase was “What the Pope did, (without meaning to, in my opinion) was to push a very hot button that had already been pushed earlier with the cartoons being published.” (emphasis added)

It seems that the Pope agrees with my feeling.

“The Pope said on Sunday he was deeply sorry Muslims were offended by his use of a medieval quotation on Islam and said it did not represent his personal view.”

You are welcome to think that the Pope was being disingenuous in his apology, but I believe that he was sincere. As to what Muslims are saying about the churches being burned, here again is the statement from Ismail Haniya, the Palestinian prime minister, as he called on Palestinians on Sunday to refrain from sectarian strife.

“All Palestinian citizens must prevent all harm to all Christian churches on Palestinian land. Our Christian brothers are citizens of Palestine. They are Palestinians,” he said.

I don’t attend Mosque, so I have no real idea what is being said there, so I will simply assume that they are preaching what they say they are, which is that this type of violence is unacceptable and against Islam.

As to the claims I see here that you are Ms. Roach, well, I doubt that myself. Just because you share political opinions with a particular politician, that is not evidence that you are that politician, and I doubt that Ms. Roach has the time to spend on these boards. I find that I share many opinions with at least a couple of politicians, but that doesn’t make me Derek Kilmer or Larry Seaquist. (It does, however, get me out helping them.)

Now, as to the lecture on courtesy, my remarks were more of a general conversation than they were aimed at you in particular. I used you as an example, as you have seen quite a bit of discourtesy from others, and should know how it feels. Still, you may have a point. I’ve been trying to use courtesy and respect with you, even where I disagree strongly with your positions. The responses I get (ex. – “you are way too far gone to reason with”, “Stop making excuses for them. They win if you do.” and others even less respectful seem to indicate that you will only treat me with respect if I agree with you.

Left Foot – your anger is clouding your eye sight. Seen the gas pumps lately? If you are paying $3.00 per gallon, you are using premium to fill your gas guzzling SUV. Everyone else is paying less, and the price is going down.

(Can’t help but notice this is right before the elections, a product the Bush’s are heavily involved in, an industry that desperately wants to keep the “friendly” Republicans in power.)

Where exactly is the President curtailing your civil rights? Any authority given in the Patriot Act was approved by Congress, including a large number of democrats. Can you tell me, specifically, what you are not able to do now that you were previously able to do?

(If I receive a call from overseas I now wonder, is this call being listened to, am I on a list because of a website I accessed? This is a huge infringement on my civil rights)

The current discussion involves terrorists captured in combat. Do you really believe they should be accorded more rights than any US citizen? That is what McCain and company are arguing, and Bush is saying is the path to defeat. Islamic fanatics have little use for Geneva Conventions. We can follow them or not, it wonâ€™t save a single beheading. But if you want to sacrifice women and children in order to preserve the dignity of a terrorist, be prepared for the next attack. They already see us as weak, this only proves them right.

(I think they should be given the same rights. That is what this country stands, or once stood for. Trying people without evidence is morally repugnant. We are essentially saying “the government says you are guilty, you are guilty. How do you like your fair trial with the open airing of evidence?)

As for comment 5 – seen Australia lately? They are demanding loyalty oaths from their imams. Seems they want the religious leaders to put country before fanaticism.

(are you suggesting that we all swear a loyalty oath to the United States. Do hear what you are saying? This is not the German Fatherland (or is it) of the 1940’s. We are free in this country to dissent, to protest, to practice any religion we so choose.)

Last challenge – see if you can engage in dialog without swear words or personal attacks.

Comment by Janet S â€” 9/18/06 @ 9:27 am

It amazes me how you are so willing to give up rights. So willing to condemn an entire religion based on the actions of a few. How you are so willing to give a government of, by and for the people the right to control, totally, our lives. It begins one step at a time. Germany is the most obvious example.

How about YOUR threats “carl”? The threat YOU MADE of posting the address of MY children, you miserable bastard.

You do realize, don’t you “carl” there are people who read but don’t post? You do realize, don’t you “carl” the dangers of personal information made public on the net. You’d have to live in a vacuum on the moon not to understand/be aware of the dangers of personal info… how’s the air up there, moonman?

No bluff, sweetcheeks.

I don’t think the safety of the moron who willingly married you, the safety of my children or even the safety of your pathetic hide is something to joke about nor take lightly.

The moron that willingly married you should be appalled that you even list your “real” name, “carl”.

Afraid for my children, damned right I am. Especially from the hate spewing filth represented by you far wing left whackos… you do GET why your called whacko’s, don’t you “carl”?

Yes, sweetcheeks you most certainly threatened my children and you better ask the wifeypoo the consequences of cyber-threats… while I ask the police department Carl Grossman liberal democrat in Seattle.

I made a choice to not expose the moron that willingly married you to the freaks that hang around boards such as these.

If you think that choice is a game you somehow won, well CONGRATULATIONS “CARL”, YOU ARE A WINNER IN YOUR OWN MIND.

Now run along to your insult generator, plug in a concept or whatever and get your next post. You remain a bore.

My frustration with Muslims in general is that the fanatics are allowed to get away with riots and threats, without loud and vocal denouncements within their ranks. I applaud the Palestinian authorities who finally stood up and called for a stop.

I also see Muslims demonstrating at Westminster Cathedral, carrying signs containing death threats, along with all sorts of comments offensive to Christianity. I would expect the moderate Muslims of England to step up and tell them to cease and disist. But there is silence. I’m betting it is because they are as fearful as the British govt and police at crossing this very vocal and violent minority. Death threats are taken seriously in some parts of the world.

In the US, I hear a deafening silence from CAIR and others calling for an end to this. If Muslims want to engage in dialog, let them start. And it doesn’t start with “you can’t say the name of the prophet in any context or I will harm you”. It will start with the realization that they live in a modern world with people who mean them no harm, but have the freedom of speech to criticize their behavior. American Muslims are an asset to this country. They work hard, and provide well for their families. I just wish they wouldn’t let their faith be hijacked by fanatics.

BTW, when the pedophile scandal broke in the Catholic church, there was an outcry from the media and from the Catholic population. If not for that, I’m not sure that it wouldn’t have stayed hidden.

I told you Teresa would serve two subpeanas to find your isp and account and who owned the computer you are banging your drivel out on. I never said I would post your address. That is your imagination working overtime again.

You directly threatened me. I called your bluff. You backed down. More empty threats from you. Calling the police? No one threatened you, directly or indirectly. You are really a twisted sister.

I like the name calling. It shows anger and frustration. We have no fear of the whackos you speak of. A man has nothing if he is not willing to stand behind his words. I back my words with my real name.

Again, you have my permission to post whatever information you have (think you have).

Now, please show me where I in any way, shape or form threatened you. Another WingNut lie designed to deflect from the issue. The issue being you have no information. You are lying. Your bluff was called and now you are frightened, angry and frustrated. (I like to repeat stuff in the hopes it will finally sink in).

So if I carry a sign with an anti-Christian message on it, I should be lumped with terrorists. Carrying a sign that advocates violence is a far cry from actual violence. (How many times have you told someone “If you do that, I will kill you”? You should be locked up for that.

I feel sorry for you to be so afraid of anything not in line with your Christian values. There will always be violence in the name of God. You just think that when it is in YOUR God’s name it is justified. News flash for you: so does every other extreme WingNut in the world.

Another thought on courtesy. Your comment “stop lecturing about courtesy and manners. If that is what you think this is about, you are way too far gone to reason with. indicates that we have far different values when it comes to courtesy.

Courtesy and manners have been life-and-death issues throughout human history. We see nostalgic movies and novels about the “Age of Chivalry”. That was a time when, if you insulted someone there was a good chance that you would be called upon to back up your statements with your life. Good manners were important. Rude people stood a chance of dieing young.

While I do not advocate going back to dueling, I do sometimes wonder if we have perhaps gone too far in the opposite direction. (Some folks could benefit by being backhanded across the mouth.) One of the reasons I post under my full name is that it reduces the temptation for me to be rude or vulgar. People can find me and hold me accountable for my words. I think this is a good thing. I refuse to be cowed by the nutcases out there, as I, too refuse to live in fear.

Courtesy can inflame or defuse a conflict. It is very powerful, and it is a tool that we do not use well in our effort to separate the fanatic from the devout. Some in our own country do not seem to want to separate those two groups. (Read some of the posts here if you want examples.)

Courtesy and respect can succeed where bombs and bullets cannot. Assuming that our goal is not to simply “kill them all and take their oil”, but is to leave a functioning, friendly government in Iraq, and to defuse the tensions between us and the Islamic people, courtesy and respect are the only tools that will do the job.

Whether or not you feel that it is our responsibility to do what we can to separate them, it is certainly in our interest to do so. Rejecting common courtesy as a tool in that effort almost certainly dooms it to failure.

If you can post the comment where your children were theatened, I will turn myself in. You are such a liar. You did not post it. You have nothing.

Your anger is growing. Now you are so mad that you make a correction only to make another typo.

Show me where I threatened anyone.

Your bluff was called. You have no information. You THREATENED ME and the “wifeypoo”. You directly posted that you would disclose our personal informaion, which you don’t have, in an effort to stop me from speaking out. That is internet terrorism at its finest.

Give the wifeypoo hugs and kisses… and you might want to mention to her all the permission you gave me (and on her behalf!) to post public information that I chose, out of my benevolance and consideration for her safety, NOT to post, BEFORE she tries to scare up a cop, then maybe a judge for her subpoena’s. {/LMAO}

By the way, threatening terrorist bastard, I did call my family member at the AG’s office and I just happened to mention your threats to my children… you do know the AG’s office moved last week, didn’t you?

Give the wifeypoo hugs and kisses… and you might want to mention to her all the permission you gave me (and on her behalf!) to post public information that I chose, out of my benevolance and consideration for her safety, NOT to post, BEFORE she tries to scare up a cop, then maybe a judge for her subpoena’s. {/LMAO}

By the way, threatening terrorist bastard, I did call my family member at the AG’s office and I just happened to mention your threats to my children… you do know the AG’s office moved last week, didn’t you?

So if I carry a sign with an anti-Christian message on it, I should be lumped with terrorists. Carrying a sign that advocates violence is a far cry from actual violence. (How many times have you told someone “If you do that, I will kill you”? You should be locked up for that.

I feel sorry for you to be so afraid of anything not in line with your Christian values. There will always be violence in the name of God. You just think that when it is in YOUR God’s name it is justified. News flash for you: so does every other extreme WingNut in the world.

Carl, I hesitate to take this on, as you’ve been so kind in your comments to me. Still, I should, as it speaks directly to what I’ve been saying to Janet.

If you carry an anti-Christian sign, you are deliberately trying to evoke anger and resentment, just as I would be if I carried an anti-Jewish (or other belief) sign. As a religion and as an ethnic group, this cannot be news to you. There is way too much history that proves it.

If I intend to make someone angry it seems a bit odd that I would be surprised at their anger.

If I carry a sign that advocates violence, then I certainly bear some of the ethical responsibility for that violence. Both Christian and Hebrew ethics concur on this.

While Janet and I have certainly disagreed on large areas of discussion, I have not yet seen her advocate or condone violence in the name of Christianity or any other belief. We may disagree as to the appropriate responses to the violence that we have seen, but nowhere do I see her advocating some sort of holy war.

Your comment “You just think that when it is in YOUR God’s name it is justified” is not backed by any of her statements. Essentially, you don’t know what she thinks, other than what she has told us in her posts. I presume from some of her statements that she is frustrated because she sees Christians condemning violence perpetrated by Christians, and does not see the same reaction from other groups.

To this, I would point out that while I, and presumably she, hears sermons on a regular basis condemning violence, we don’t go to Mosque on Friday, so we don’t hear those same sermons from Muslims.

But you seem to be as willing to lump together all Christians (including folks that we really wish would stop using the name, as their actions do not reflect the teachings of any of the major Christian denominations) as she seems to be willing to lump all Muslims together. (I know that you don’t really believe that, but it is what the post implies.)

There are over a billion Christians in the world, and also over a billion Muslims. If even one-fiftieth (1/50) of one percent of these groups consist of fanatics, that gives us about a million whackos. Let’s stop letting these tiny percentages paint our perception of the entire group. I do not like the term “Muslim fundamentalist” for this reason. They really aren’t Muslims by the definition that most of the Islamic world uses.

Yes, much of the Islamic world sees us as an enemy, and some even rejoice at the sight of Americans being hurt and killed. Most of those same folks, upon reflecting that real human beings were really hurt and killed, will find themselves ashamed of that reaction.

And in that, they are not so different from us. Many Americans found themselves cheering when we sent our bombs and missiles into Iraq, without really thinking about the human tragedy on the receiving end of those bombs and missiles. People who were themselves victims of Saddam Hussein were killed and maimed, and we cheered.

Perhaps that reaction from both sides should give me some hope. We really aren’t that different. There is room for dialog, and with dialog can come understanding and, hopefully, peace.

Janet has advocated for the war in Iraq, basing it on her belief that Islam attacked us. Islam did not attack us. extremists attacked us. She is saying directly that anti-Christian protests are abhorent, which to her, may very well be, and that violence against the group is called for because “her God” is offended. She forgets that we live in a free country. I am allowed to protest and dissent whatever issue I choose. It is not illegal to have bad taste, Lord knows I have displayed enough of it here on my own.

Janet is opposed to talking. She wants to crush, by whatever means necessary, the “opposition”. Be it the Islamo-Fascists (this by the way is an oxymoron) or the dissenters and as she calls them, appeasers.

This man’s family has spent far too long defending this country, and its principles, to allow people who believe as Janet does, to ride roughshod over me and the others who speak out when we see a wrong.

As for a sing advocating violence, perhaps I should have said a sign advocating change. But even our forefathers knew that sometimes, violence is the answer. To wit:

“This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it, or exercise their revolutionary right to overthrow it.” Abraham Lincoln

And John, without disagreement there would be no need for discussion. Do not hesitate to call me out if you think I am wrong. (except when I go after someone based purely on the venom in their post).

Sweetheart, baby doll, you don’t have what you think you have. I promise. Now as for the subpeanas, those were clearly in reference to Teresa handling the case against you, when you post information of an innocent third party, pro bono. Go back and read the posts again. You continually have trouble with reading comprehension. How did you get out of high school? Or did you?

You still have not posted a “threat” that you claim I made. You are a lying, low life, scum sucking pig.

You do not have the high ground. You are now hiding your little cave and hoping not to get caught.

You directly threatened to “OUT” our personal information. I called your bluff, showed no fear, did not beg you not too and that is when the panic set in for you. That is when you started in with the name calling. Sweetcheeks is two words by the way. Teresa says you are right, I have great ass!

The only moron around here is you. Post the information, baby. Post the threat. You have not done so because it does not exist.

You called the AG’s office. What did you say? I threatened a guy (you assume) on the internet. He called my bluff and now I am crying like a baby?

Like I told you before. Post the information you have. You will be free from liability if you post the right information, but since I know you don’t, and you doubt, that you have the right info, you won’t do it.

Is your ass sore from riding that high horse on the high road for so long? You are in the gutter sugarlips, and you know it.

I quote you; “Give the wifeypoo hugs and kissesâ€¦ and you might want to mention to her all the permission you gave me (and on her behalf!) to post public information that I chose, out of my benevolance and consideration …..”

Please stop, you are making me laugh so hard my sides hurt. Your children, just like the “family” business, are figments of your imagination. No man, no matter how desperate, would lay with you.

Post the information. You won’t be subjecting Teresa or I to anything. You will subjecting some other innocent bystander to your evilness and yourself to legal action for having done so.

Post away, Proudofyourfatlyingass, post away.

By the way. I checked the RCW and there is nothing in it that prevents me from swearing, making sexual inuendo, or being as rude as I can possibly be.

CONGRATULATIONS “CARL”! YOU ARE A WINNER IN YOUR VERY OWN LITTLE MIND!

And, again, I’m quite sure the moron that willingly married you is ever so proud of her little man.

You have apltly proven yourself a vile little man* quite adept at playing with himself… carry on, sweetcheeks, carry on.

*a vile little misogynist man who gets his kicks out of threatening the children of those with whom he disagrees and who can only build himself up by tearing down others. You may be an adult by virtue of your age, but you have much to learn about being mature and truly being a man.

Thesaurus.com can help you with words other than vile and misogynist. I am only a misogynist when it comes to you. As for the masturbation comment, well sweetie pie, it is my body and I can do what I want with it.

Bitterness seems to be your strong suit. Honey, who hurt you so bad? Did your father run out on the family? Were you abused or mistreated? Get some help.

And post the information that you don’t have. You won’t post because you are not sure, you doubt yourself. Afraid there in your little room at the computer. It is a mistake you are not willing to make.

Bottom line. You have nothing. You are making baseless, groudless charges. Call your AG buddy and find out what happens when you do that.

You are not impressing anyone here. I am actually getting bored with your lack of original material. You made a direct threat to “out” my wife. You threatened to destroy her career. You then did the Republican thing, backtracking and claiming you were keeping it private to save her. What really happened is your bluff was called, you folded. Like a little bitch, now you throw out names and use invectives trying to get reaction from me.

All you get is this: post the information. Direct us to the threat of your “children”. Nothing garners sympathy like a woman “protecting” her young. When she has them. Lying bitch.

Post the proof.

Post my zip code. roflamo. You will have to post the all the zips for the entire puget sound area.

Isn’t it convenient for Bush. He gets on the phone to his oil industry pals and says lower the price of gas for a few months and let’s see if we can con the American people into voting for us one more time. Then poof – all of a sudden the prices will go right back up after the election. And if Americans fall for this shit, they deserve everything they get and then some. Commentby RightEqualsStupid— 9/18/06@ 9:35 am

LeftHisTrudLostHisBrain is dumb and stupid. Apparently he didn’t read the minutes of the last OPEC Minister’s meeting. Now RightEqualsStupid AKA LeftHisTrudLostHisBrain, does GWB control them?

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