BullBearMS:FlashHarry: explain how the administration is at fault here? this is 100 percent the fault of congress and its republican leaders.

Aside from Obama fighting his own party to extend the Bush tax cuts for the rich the last time they should have expired?

If Rep. Peter DeFazio, D-Ore., is to be believed, President Obama is casting the upcoming House vote on the tax cut deal in very stark terms.

"The White House is putting on tremendous pressure, making phone calls," DeFazio said on CNN's Parker Spitzer. "The president's making phone calls saying that's the end of his presidency if he doesn't get this bad deal."

If you think the leadership of either party is anything but totally owned by the obscenely wealthy, you haven't been paying attention.

It would be so nice to see the real puppeteers outed.Maybe they will hire more stupid than Ryan and spill some good beans.Fat chance, I am sure it would be fatal.

BullBearMS:The "fiscal cliff" is this years excuse for screwing over everyone who isn't rich

On this, we agree.

I don't have a clue how to stop this train. Having the zombie eyed granny starver on the ticket hasn't changed their view that the Grand Bargain to slash 4 trillion in government programs in the middle of an epic slump is still great policy and even better politics. But don't worry. They'll ask millionaires to "pay a little more" so it's all good. I'm feeling more "confident" already.

Basically we have a choice between the Republican dystopian hellscape or the Democrats' long slow jobless recovery with even more insecurity for the poor and middle class. Or actually, it's more likely to be a "compromise" between the two. After all, these are the opening bids. Link

Although there are still some rank and file Dems, especially in the House, who care about people who aren't rich, as a whole we have a choice between the Republicans and the other Republicans when it comes to serving the interests of the obscenely wealthy.

Just look at the results of President Obama's bipartisan Debt Commission which released it's report right before the last lame duck Congress went into session.

Big shock. They wanted to cut taxes yet farther for the rich, disallow the most useful tax deductions for the middle class and slice the hell out of the social safety net programs for the poor. Mind you, that was the bipartisan consensus.

Just remember how popular talk of cutting Social Security was the last time a lame duck Congress was in session.

Both parties want to cut taxes for the rich and screw over everyone else. They just don't want to be held responsible for their actions, so they look for excuses like the "fiscal cliff" and then try to pass the legislation after the elections are safely past.

snocone:Yes they will.With Congress all farked, legislation is going to flow from the bench.

The legislation, it must flow.

With a Roberts-led court? I'm skeptical. More likely? One of the justices dies, and there's a vacancy because whoever is in the minority in the Senate next Congress actually does filibuster the replacement's confirmation.

You know, if we would just pay our taxes and stop buying so much shiat imported from other countries, all of our problems would go away.

I am trying to buy a new BBQ grill right now and the only brand that still makes them in the US is Canadian. Ten years ago I bought an inexpensive grill for $150 and it was made in the US. Now they all are. The same situation can be found across all non-military manufacturing. The huge hole in our budget is caused by un/underemployed workers not paying taxes. Get them working again and we can start turning around this deficit.

AdolfOliverPanties:Obama offered the Rethuglicans a 10 to 1 deal. For each tax increase, he would offset it would ten spending cuts.

They rejected it out of hand, drove the country to the brink and the result was a lowered credit rating and a near default on our obligations.

Fark the GOP.

Today's GOP is the greatest threat the United States has ever faced.

I think to be fair they are still only the second greatest threat the United States has ever faced - but a lot of GOP supporters still wave the flag of the greatest threat. I could also see an argument McCarthyism and the overreaction to the threat of communism might have been greater. Of course the GOP still seem to be accelerating, so maybe they can take that No 1 spot they so covet in the near future.

Oh he's rich so its ok. I'll just sit here and wait for the crumbs to fall from the 1% table. I'll pay my 30% because I won't make as much as him in my lifetime. No wonder the country is going to hell with nitwits like you.

Oh he's rich so its ok. I'll just sit here and wait for the crumbs to fall from the 1% table. I'll pay my 30% because I won't make as much as him in my lifetime. No wonder the country is going to hell with nitwits like you.

Have we forgotten that Kerry paid an even lower tax rate than Romney when he had to release his tax returns during his run for the White House?

It's almost as if the obscenely wealthy have managed to rig the system so that they don't have to pay their fair share of taxes.

Oh he's rich so its ok. I'll just sit here and wait for the crumbs to fall from the 1% table. I'll pay my 30% because I won't make as much as him in my lifetime. No wonder the country is going to hell with nitwits like you.

Have we forgotten that Kerry paid an even lower tax rate than Romney when he had to release his tax returns during his run for the White House?

It's almost as if the obscenely wealthy have managed to rig the system so that they don't have to pay their fair share of taxes.

Stile4aly:You mean austerity measures are bad? But I was told we have a spending problem...

Both idelogies have their strong point and weak points. Continuing keynesian-type spending may help us out in the short-term but will likely have a large impact on our debt and future sustainability. Chopping our fingers to the bone and going with full blown austerity willl greatly impact us (especially the poor and middle-class) in the short term but will likely help the deficits and debts.