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AmblesideOnline Narration Discussion

Taken from various posts on the AmblesideOnline email list

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Question:
My child, year 4, is shy and new to narration. What results am I
looking for regarding:narration and dictation? Any guidelines or
suggestions you can give?

Answer:
Perhaps narration is just what your daughter needs! Much of the year 4
material is complex for a first-time narrator, so don't be afraid to
take it in very small bites. Let her narrate after just one page, or
even one paragraph, at first.

Also,
you might find it useful to incorporate the Aesop's fables into your
school time, even though these are from an earlier year. They are very
short and complete, and are perfect to use when beginning narration--no
matter what the child's age.

Although
you will hear about children narrating at great length, CM
specifically said that the length of a narration is not the point.
The mental labor involved is what matters. If your daughter can tell
you just a few sentences about a chapter she has read, that may be
enough--provided the sentences include the most pertinent information.
Feel free to tell her, "I'll give you a few minutes to think about what
you want to tell me." before she narrates.

It
is much easier to remember what you have narrated! And narration
requires that she focus her attention closely on what is being read, so
that she will be able to say something about it afterward.

Take
it in very small steps, perhaps having her narrate only once or twice a
day for a couple of weeks, then gradually increasing until she is
narrating from everything you want her to.

Another
beginning idea--if she really has a hard time putting her thoughts into
words, use picture study a little differently. Let her narrate about a
picture while she looks at it, so that she only has to think about
what she is saying, but doesn't have to remember. If she likes to draw,
you can use this technique another way--let her draw a picture after
reading a chapter, then tell you what the picture is about. Although
drawing can be a valid form of narration, you want to use it as a tool
toward using words to express thoughts.

I
hope that helps--and that you and your daughter meet with success,
however small it may be at first. Narration is one of the most valuable
and powerful tools available to us.

~Karen
Glass

In
Miss Mason's classroom I understand that every reading was narrated
upon, but not every child narrated every time. However, the children
never knew whether they would be called to narrate or not, so they had
to be prepared. In homeschool classrooms we have a different dynamic-
and if you have only one student, narrating every single time can grow
tedious for both of you. You might try something we use called a
narration jar. I have written a different type of narration on
slips
of paper. The child draws out a slip of paper after the reading and
narrates in the manner indicated. Some of the options are:Draw a
picture from your reading. Set up a scene from the story with your
blocks. Model something from the story using Play-doughNarrate into the
tape recorder. Narrate to Mama.Write down five sentences about what you
read. Think about another story or even that reminds you of what you
just read about. Tell Mama about it.Write down three sentences about
what you read. You have 10 minutes to plan a short skit from what you
read. If you were giving a test on this reading, what are three
questions you would ask? Skip the narration today. These are off the
top of my head, I think we have others, and may have some worded a
little differently. I also don't have the same number of each--there
are several 'narrate to Mama's' but only two play dough and skit
suggestions. They draw the slip, and then return it to the jar, so the
next narration has just as many choices.

HTH,
Wendi

Question:
If a child's narration is almost word for word the same as the book,
does that mean the child is assimilating knowledge rather than living
ideas?

Answer:
One of the wonderful things about narration is that the children make
the language of good books their very own. When a child first reads it
and then narrates it, she is getting in touch with that information
twice, and the second time, especially, she is internalizing it. This
is fine. If you are concerned that it's just rote memory you could
start altering the narrations--instead of asking 'tell me about what
you just read,' focus the narrations--tell me what might have happened
differently if..., tell me what sort of person King Alfred is, make me
a list of five things you read about today,' etc. Once she writes her
narration it is perfectly in keeping with CM's methods to ask a couple
leading questions, to direct the discussion toward the paths you want
her to do, to discuss further.

You
can also try something Miss Mason did with older children. Around once
a week she would give them a composition assignment on a book from
which they had already narrated. This need not be difficult--'tell me
something about the character of the oldest brother in Swallows and
Amazons," or "describel a room in Laura Ingalls Wilder's house," or
"tell me something you might have done if you lived in King Arthur's
time." It could be oral.

Wendi

One
thing about narration, though-we really do need to remember that the
primary purpose of oral narration, especially, is not the external
production, but the internal action. The attention required for
narration, the mental process of ordering and selecting what to "tell,"
and finally the communication itself. We should not expect every
narration to be a finely-crafted presentation any more than we would
expect an Olympic athlete to skate the 1,000 meter race in record time
every time he practiced. If he's thinking about form, he might let his
speed slack off. If he's pushing for speed, he might be a little
sloppier in form. Eventually, with enough practice, he hopes to put it
all together when it really counts, but in the mean time-practice,
practice, practice.

I
know how this is supposed to work, but translating that knowledge into
real, working, performance is another kettle of fish. Which brings me
around to the difference between information and knowledge. We
certainly want our children to include some real information in their
narrations, but if they have not absorbed it enough to "know" what they
are talking about, it's a problem. CM says you cannot narrate what you
do not know...and I think this is true. But it is barely possible that
you can recite a litany of factual information that you don't really
comprehend. I suspect, in such cases, we either need to choose other
books or slow down.

~Karen

Charlotte
expected more from children than just narration in the form of simply
stating the facts in order. In Book three of the Charlotte Mason series
she expands upon her meaning of 'narration' under 'Other Ways of Using
Books' (besides simple narration) where she makes it clear that she
expects more of students:

From
Book 3, Other Ways of using Books: --But this is only one way to use
books: others are to enumerate the statements in a given paragraph or
chapter; to analyze a chapter, to divide it into paragraphs under
proper headings, to tabulate and classify series; to trace cause to
consequence and consequence to cause; to discern character and perceive
how character and circumstance interact; to get lessons of life and
conduct, or the living knowledge which makes for science, out of books;
all this is possible for school boys and girls, and until they have
begun to use books for themselves in such ways, they can hardly be said
to have begun their education.

Charlotte,
it seems to me, expects us to incorporate other types of narration into
our studies through character study, cause to consequence and
consequence to cause, etc. The way I interpret this and apply it here
to the AmblesideOnline books is by varying the form of the narration;
sometimes asking for a synopsis and other times asking for narration on
a particular topic, such as why a character might have acted the he
did, or what he learned, or how he changed during the story. That
interaction with the characters we meet and the books we read is what
makes it so memorable and personal, I believe.

Someone
on this list had a wonderful related suggestion about a narration jar
that we now use here as well. I do think it is important, though, to
keep the age of the child in mind and to remember that she also
emphasizes the use of caution and restraint so that we don't spoil the
enjoyment and unique experience that all of the wonderful literature
the AmblesideOnline curriculum provides. Our children are blessed by
Charlotte's philosophy still!

Alicia
in California

I
shared a few weeks ago that I have one son, 8, that narrates
reluctantly. Sometimes, he narrates readily and sometimes he looks at
me like:"Why do I have to tell you about what you just heard me read or
read yourself?" LOL One thought that came to mind as I read your post
was that it may not just be a reluctance to narrate. It may be an
attention problem. There's a difference between racing through a novel,
as I confess that I did for the majority of my life and am still very
prone to do, than focusing my complete attention on something,
concentrating and telling myself back whatever I read. When I began to
read about CM, I decided to try narration myself.

For
someone like myself, and many others, who love books, but tend to
"gobble them up" instead of focusing my full attention on the reading,
narration is hard work. I still catch myself, for instance, reading the
CM original series, I'll be focusing my attenntion and then suddenly, I
discover I've been drifting and not really retained anything from the
last few paragraphs. Part of my problem is that I never developed the
habit of attention. So, last year, I spent a lot of time, focusing on
developing the habit of attention in my children. The year before I
always asked for narrations--though it was just kindergarten for my
now 8yos.--but I really concentrated on it more last year. In the
beginning, he and my youngest, now 6.75 might just narrate a paragraph
or a few paragraphs. Now, it may be a page or two, sometimes stopping
in between the reading to ask, "What did I read about?"

Now,
I hope I don't sound too rigorous. Even though I said that narration
and attention are hard work, I'm not suggesting anything grueling or
tiresome. The key for me was making sure that I had their attention.
I'd give your son bite-sized readings, ask for narrations and accept
whatever he narrates back to you. You can make a mental note of things
you realize that he didn't grasp, but I would greatly limit summarizing
or discussing the material in great length. Concentrate instead on
developing his attention and focus on what he does know--not what he
doesn't. For instance, when I read TCOO, I give a brief, five min.
summary of what we read the last time. Then, I read a few pages and ask
for narrations. When I read this book, I always break up the chapters
over a few days. Other stories I may read in one sitting. It depends on
the material.

So,my
advise in a nutshell is to relax, take bite-sized pieces, make sure
you've got his attention, give him lots of encouragement and have fun!
You'll be surprised at how well he will begin to narrate in a few mos.

God
Bless, Lynn D.

We
read Pinocchio chapter 1 and 2 while we were at our place of business
waiting for their dad to finish work. First I told her she needed paper
so that she can draw the characters I will be speaking of, I didn't
tell her what I was going to read and prefaced it with you better make
sure you listen so you can know what to draw (said this in a very nice
way). As I began to read she began to draw the piece of wood but did
not get very far--she was complaining of a stomach ache and later I
realized it wasn't an excuse because she really did get sick. After I
read 2 chapters I asked her what she drew and she said she wanted to
draw the king and the kids but didn't have time--if you've read
Pinocchio you might know what I'm talking about it's in the first
sentence, very insignificant to the story. Anyhow I thought arghhh...
it's not even part of the story! Is this all she heard? I kept my
compusure and said to her please narrate it for me. She said I can't
and began poorly. So I simply said it is part of our schooling that you
narrate so I suggest you think about what we read because I want you to
tell me about it. As we were all in the vehicle on our way home she
narrated it well! She did not remember the names of the 2 men and I'm
not sure if she realized we were reading about Pinocchio but at any
rate she was listening.

My
encouragement to you is to try not to get upset with your kids and just
keep at it--I can relate to your frustration. If you have to read just
1--2 paragraphs and ask for a narration then do just that. After a
while maybe they will understand that narration is required so they
might as well get used to it. Someone correct me if I'm wrong but per
CM, you are not supposed to repeat what you've read cuz they need to
learn to listen the first time, so if they don't get it read the next
paragraph and ask again for a narration. Since we are new to this I
thought of reading a story to them and then narrating it myself so they
get the gist of it--I think that maybe they think they have to tell
the whole story with every detail. Also, in my opinion listening is a
skill that has to be learned--I know when my husband reads aloud to
the kids and I listen in, after about 3 minutes my mind wanders. That
is why when I'm listening to a sermon I'm writing and taking notes
constantly because it's how I keep my focus--not suggesting that kids
should be doing this I think since they start young they will learn the
skill whether they are auditory learners or not. By the way my daughter
is definately an auditory learner and yet tunes out at times.

Hope
this helps some--as you see from my post I'm not an expert, just
starting and really want this to work for us.

God
Bless! Row

A
fourth grader needs to be prepared to narrate all his subjects daily.
He may not do this, but he needs to be prepared. I handle this by
writing down various narration techniques on pieces of paper and
putting them in a jar. Daughter pulls a paper and does what it says.
One piece says 'no narration.' Some say 'narrate to mom.' some say
'draw a scene from the story.' Some say 'you have five minutes to plan
a skit of a scene from the reading. Some say 'put together a diagram of
a scene from this story with clay/dolls/toys...' You get the idea.
There is a full article on this in the archives under 'narration jar.'

When
I had two reading the same book, I kept two beads in my pocket. Red for
Bear (one child's nickname), Green for Doodlebug (another child) I
would reach in my pocket and pull one out and whatever color I drew is
the child who would narrate. This meant that sometimes the luck of the
draw led one child to give five narrations in a row. So be it. They
both knew they could be called on at any time.

The
first grader is only just beginning to learn narration. I would start
with something short, like Aesop's Fables. I would ask for narrations
after only a sentence or two. My memory is so feeble these days that it
is sadly affecting my 'diva' status, but I think CM did not expect full
narrations until about age 9. So go slow, keep an eye on the child's
frustration level, and occasionally take turns giving narrations, so he
can see what you're asking him to do (I had one who thought we wanted a
word for word recital of what we had just read, and we didn't figure
this out until I narrated for her, and she quit howling 'I can't do it.
It's too hard!" and instead smiled through her tears and said 'That's
ALL? I can do that.')

Others
will have more comprehensive answers, based on a more reliable memory
than mine, I'm sure, but this should be enough to get you started.=)

Wendi

Transitioning
from oral to written narrations

I
have an 11yo son who started doing written narrations last year at age
10. I can only share our experience, and I while I suspect it is
typical, I don't have much hard evidence to prove it.:g:Like most boys,
mine doesn't much care for putting pencil to paper, either.

Last
year, when he was only just 10, I had him doing one written narration
per week. Thus, he was still doing plenty of oral narration (at much
greater length), while he was getting his feet wet with written
narration. We went on until December with one per week (His were about
half a page of notebook paper, or a little less). Then I assigned
written narration twice per week. These narrations were short, and
displayed all the errors you can think of--poor spelling, lack of
proper capitalization and punctuation, and incorrect sentences. I think
he invented the run-on sentence. At about this time, I introduced the
idea of a longer paper-1-1/2 to 2 pages. I narrowed the topic of his
narration so he could focus on development of one topic at greater
length. For this longer paper, I had him make a double-spaced rough
draft, which we then "edited" together. I wanted to introduce the idea
of editing in general, and also gently instruct him about senctence
structure. It took about a week for him to do one of these papers, and
I let him off doing copywork in the meantime.:-)

He
turned 11 as we began this school year. I think I had him doing two
written narrations per week for the first term, and then increased it
to three times per week the rest of the year. His typing skills had
improved enough to allow for typing the written narrations, so he is
doing that now, and it really takes the pressure off of having too much
pencil and paper work. He can produce a one or two page (typed,
double-spaced) narration in a day or two, so the extent of his written
narrations have caught up to his oral ones. This has taken two full
years.

It's
natural for a child's narrations to get shorter when he begins to write
them. It's hard to give up that detail we are used to in narrations.
You might listen to an oral narration at first, then ask him to go into
more detail on just one aspect for the written narration. However, the
length of the narration is of less significance than the thinking
that goes into it. If your son is able to narrate the basic events
succinctly because he doesn't want to write a lot, that doesn't mean he
hasn't sifted through a lot of detail in his mind to cull the vital
parts for his narration.

Be
consistent and be encouraged. I have put a lot of faith in CM's methods
since my son was about 4yo. Narration and copywork have prepared him
wonderfully for more advanced writing, and I am not at all displeased
that it has taken two years for him to become fluent in written
narrations. I don't believe there's a writing program on the market
that would have put him in a better position than he is now.

Hope
that helps! Save those written narrations, so you will have a record of
his progress over time! When you think he needs it, don't be afraid to
push a little. Ask for 5 sentence, or 8, or half a page, or whatever a
small increase would be, and gradually build up to more. Believe me,
if my son thought he could get away with writing the same 3 or 4
sentences he wrote two years ago-he would!

~Karen

Did
you have your son write his paper over with corrections at this point?

NO.
And neither did Charlotte Mason. For several months, the goal was just
to get him comfortable writing his thoughts on paper. Once he was okay
with that, we went on to the editing idea (remember, we only did this
with one paper per month for a while).

Do
teach the student editing? How?

Well,
I happen to have my degree in English. That helps. <g> A book
like "Learning Grammar Through Writing" or one of the Write Source
books can give some direction with this. Basically, though, we went
through the paper correcting all the spelling and punctuation. My son
was allergic to capital letters (I guess), and tended to write run-on
sentences-"and" "and" "and" with never a period in sight. Then I read
the sentences aloud to him, so that he could "hear" them. He's very
auditory, and he often wanted to change the wording to make them sound
better. Finally, I read the whole paper aloud to him, and asked him to
pay attention to the ideas-to make sure everything flowed together, and
there were no major gaps. That's a bit abstract, and I didn't make
suggestions or criticize the final product. I just wanted him to think
about it. Then he re-wrote a clean copy with these corrections.

When
I say "teach him editing," what I really mean is that I was introducing
the idea that a writing project is not "finished" just because you got
some words down on paper. I was trying to instill the idea that a piece
of writing could be worked on and improved, while giving him just a
little taste of how to do that. Nothing really scary or grandiose here.

~Karen

Question:
How do I teach good narration and writing skills?

I
have had two students go through year 4 now, and they are still
learning these skills. These are just suggestions, take them as you
need and adapt them to your child.

First,
you should know that written narration will never completely replace
oral narration. So begin with oral narrations, and gradually introduce
written narrations.

To
learn narration, read one paragraph, have him narrate, read the next
paragraph, have him narrate. If this is the first year in the PUO, you
might also go ahead and include Aesop's Fables, as these short tales
make excellent narration practice.

Oral
narrations generally begin with "Tell me what you remember." Sometimes,
"Tell me what you remember about...." is used. In Miss Mason's
classroom I understand that every reading was narrated upon, but not
every child narrated every time. However, the children never knew
whether they would be called to narrate or not, so they had to be
prepared.

In
homeschool classrooms we have a different dynamic--and if you have
only one student, narrating every single time can grow tedious for both
of you. You might try something we use called a narration jar. I have
written a different type of narration on slips of paper. The child
draws out a slip of paper after the reading and narrates in the manner
indicated. Some of the options are:

Draw a
picture from your reading.
Set up
a scene from the story with your blocks.
Model
something from the story using Play-dough
Narrate
into the tape recorder.
Narrate
to Mama.
Write
down five sentences about what you read.
Think
about another story or even that reminds you of what you just read
about. Tell Mama about it.
Write
down three sentences about what you read.
You
have 10 minutes to plan a short skit from what you read.
If you
were giving a test on this reading, what are three questions you would
ask?
Skip
the narration today.

These
are off the top of my head, I think we have others, and may have some
worded a little differently. I also don't have the same number of each
--there are several 'narrate to Mama's' but only two play dough and
skit suggestions. They draw the slip, and then return it to the jar, so
the next narration has just as many choices.

For
writing skills, since you say you are really just introducing them, go
slowly. Use copywork regularly. Choose one grammar or punctuation skill
at a time to work on and only focus on that skill in proofreading his
writing. Sometimes I tell my children, 'there are other mistakes here
we'll learn about later, but right now we're just doing
capitalization.' That way I know they won't assume they do it all
correctly and then get frustrated when they are told something new.

An
important tool for you to have is a good English handbook. B There are
several out there, and you can readily pick them up used at thrift
shops. But don't push it. The narration is the most important thing, as
it is the bones for essays, critiques, and all other sorts of more
formal writing later on.

Wendi

Question:
Is narration to be oral after a single reading? Or is any reproduction
of info--a picture, a skit, a book cover, ect.--valid in place of
narration? Do alternate activities use the same capacities and give the
same training that the plain narration gives?

Charlotte
used both sketching and skits in her schools. I remember reading about
sketching a scene from the reading in one of CM's books (can't recall
the volume offhand). Charlotte does explain that many of the same
processes so important in the oral narration occur in choosing which
scene to sketch ( it is important to let the child do the choosing for
this reason) and in determinating how best to illustrate that scene.
Furthermore, when my children sketch a narration, they still have to
tell me something about it--or at the very least write down a caption
of their choice. So yes, many of these activities use the same
capacities and give similar training, much the same way two different
exercises might help strengthen the same area of the body, but in
different ways.

I
have a copy somewhere of the actual school schedules for one of CM's
schools, and one of the scheduled activities for the older students is
to sketch a scene each week from the reading of that child's choice.

I
first read about skits being used as narrations in Charlotte's schools
in an article from one of the old parent's reviews. The teacher writing
the article explained that she'd tell the class that the next day one
student would get to put on a short skit of that day's reading in a
particular subject. They all needed to think about how they would do
the skit, as she might call on any of them. That night they would all
go home and plan. The next day she would call on one child and let him
direct the others in acting out his idea of the skit. Not only did they
all have to think through the reading, considering events and their
sequence, and give thought to how best to portray them--but they also
would often discuss the reading all the way home as they debated how
one scene might better have been staged.=)

As
homeschoolers, we may not get this aspect of the skit plan--but doing a
skit was an acceptable form of narration in Charlotte's schools.

Staging
the reading with blocks is simply using some props to aid in narration-
it distracts a reluctant narrater from his fears or frustrations and he
ends up narrating more fluidly. When he has done this a few times you
can surprise him by telling him he's been narrating all along.

I
hope we do all understand that these are supplements to narrations as
we generally understand them--a retelling after a single reading--not
complete replacements. Oral narrations should continue through all of
the school years, even on into high school. But other methods may help
to prime the pump of a reluctant narrator or vary the day of a
homeschooled student. Not all of Charlotte's students narrated after
reading, but every reading was narrated. We can't narrate from every
reading unless our homeschooled student does all the narrating.
Varying the style is a way of avoiding tediousness.

So
while these alternate forms of narration are not to completely replace
oral narrations, they are very compatible with Charlotte's principles,
often actually used by her.

Wendi

Question:
Is the main idea to simply read the required passages together and have
them narrate them back to me? And I do this with all the books listed
for each week?

As
soon as they are able to, they should be reading as much of the
material as possible on their own. We tend to get more out of work we
do for ourselves. And they should narrate in some form after each
reading (to vary the day, their narrations can include sketches, skits,
models set up with blocks--but should always include some oral
narration as well).

You
can also spend a few minutes a week looking up places on the map and
putting events they've read about into a timeline.

There
are other aspects of a CM education, but I do think this is the basic
building block--good books and good narrations. You can also vary the
readings (don't do two similar subjects back to back, for example),
keep it short (this sustains interest), introduce a reading with a
'leading idea' (mention something interesting or exciting they are
going to read about), and ask them to sum up where you left off before.

Nature
study and picture study are for the purpose of developing observation
rather than gathering facts--there's more, and I'm sure you'll pick it
up from browsing here,--so don't fret over it.

Reading
good books and narrating them is a wonderful place to begin.=)

Wendi

Question:
My really big hurdle for the coming year is to start narration. Any
suggestions on how to get started with this?

Begin
by simply asking them to tell back what you just read. Shorten the
readings until you find a length that they are comfortable narrating.
You can gradually lengthen them again as they improve. You can read a
paragraph, narrate, read a paragraph, narrate, etc. Hmm, as I type
this, I think I did answer this part of your question before.

Wendi

Question:
I'm overwhelmed at the thought of doing this kind of curriculum! Where
do I start?

Do
your children regularly narrate? If not you may want to use an Aesop's
Fables book to help teach them narration. There is one recommended in
year 1, but other versions are available. I find the year 1 book
recommendation lively and well written (not all translations have these
qualities). These stories are useful for teaching even older students
to narrate.

Leslie
Smith

Question:
my 7 year old daughter is very resistant to giving me narrations from
our readings even though she absolutely loves the books. Any ideas or
suggestions?

You
could try using Aesop privately with the 7yo and ask her to narrate
privately. These stories are perfect to practice with and she should be
able to gain confidence with them. The private reading and narration
may help reduce any comparison she makes with her older sister as well
and any fears she may have of criticism as well.

Aesop
is helpful even with much older students who are new to narration.

You
can also try other forms of narration which make allowances for
different learning styles. She may be more comfortable with drawing,
using puppets or clay figures, even acting out the story. Just make
sure she explains the drawing or sets up the play and explains the
action. There are many other ways of narrating. Using another narration
method may help your daughter get her feet wet. Again, you may want to
try the alternative narration methods privately.

Leslie
Smith

Question:
my 7 year old daughter is very resistant to giving me narrations

Oh,
we've been there!! My daughter is nine now and she would still skip
narration gladly. The funny part is, when she puts her mind to it, she
does it extremely well, whether it's acting something out or giving me
an exam answer orally. (We haven't really started written narration
yet.) Some things I've found with her: I warn her when I'm going to be
requiring an oral narration (no, you can't act it out this time); I do
keep the selections short or sometimes break it up into two or three
parts--read some, narrate, read some, narrate, etc.; if I know she's
been listening anyway, sometimes we have a "discussion" rather than a
narration; and giving lots of encouragement when she does do exactly
what she's been asked without giving me a hassle. The tape recorder
does help sometimes too.

Anne W.

Question:
How do you preserve this info for your records?

I
don't preserve all of their narrations. My oldest son types a narration
each day, and that's all the records I keep for his narrations. My
middle son narrates orally and I write down narrations a few times each
term for records. When we do exams, I write down all of those for our
records. They do copywork every day and that's what we keep for records
rather than narrations.

Leslie
Noelani

Question:
Can someone please define narration and dictation for me? Exactly what
are you supposed to do? How exactly are these done/approached? How is
it organized?

I
can refer you to some good articles on this, besides Charlotte Mason's
own writings: you might want to look at Penny Gardner's CM site (search
by her name) and at Karen Andreola's article "Narration Beats Tests"
(search by that title and it should work).

Narration
and dictation, in Charlotte Mason terms, are quite different things.
Narration is telling back a story--not as memory work, but as
something that the student has visualized, grasped both the main idea
and the most important details of, and is able to tell about clearly.
In the early years, it may be as simple as "Tell me what you know about
bears" (after reading a book about bears), or drawing a picture of his
favourite part of the story. In later years, written narration is also
added, and the questions asked could be more complex (both for written
and oral narrations)--listing the points of an argument, making a
journal entry as if you were a character in the book, etc. There was a
Parent's Review article called "We narrate and then we know"--in other
words, this is not just to show Mom that he was listening, but an
actual part of working through the reading and making it his own.

A
child's narration can be written down (i.e. he dictates it to you), but
this is not necessary and can be difficult if he wants to go on at
length. (My daughter, usually a reluctant narrator, fell in love with a
biography of Handel and started giving me narrations that were about as
long as the chapters. I didn't want to discourage her, but my hand did
get a little tired.)

Narration
is valuable not only for the reasons I've given, but it also takes the
place of much of what we think of as "language arts" work,
comprehension questions, etc. It's not only good training in paying
close attention, but also in using language, increasing vocabulary,
sequencing, main idea, all that.

It
is very important to keep the readings short, especially at first and
for a young child. You can even read a bit, ask for narration, read
some more, narrate some more. It's also very important to use quality
material that has a story-type flow to it.

Now,
dictation in CM's terms is different from the way many homeschoolers
use it--I'm thinking of Ruth Beechick/Learning Language Arts Through
Literature methods. That is NOT to say that Beechick/Learning Language
Arts methods are wrong or not useful--I've actually been using a
homemade version of Learning Language Arts Through Literature this
summer with my daughter, based on Bambi. But in Charlotte Mason's
vocabulary, dictation was more or less a spelling exercise--not
something to be used later during the week for grammar or other
lessons. A student would be given a short passage to study, and then
write part of it (say a paragraph) from dictation. We do that about
once a week.

Don't
forget about copywork. Again, Charlotte Mason's version of copywork
wasn't as complicated as we sometimes think--it was done for
handwriting practice, from the words and sentences in the child's
reading. She also used a handwriting curriculum which seems to have
completely disappeared, but it had cards with handwriting models for
the students to copy.

Hope
this helps.

Anne W.

Question:
How often do you all require narrations from your little ones. Do you
have students narrate every subject? Once a day? My child is 6 years
ols.

At
six years old, one narration a day from Aesop's fables may be good. You
can increase that next year, perhaps, when she's used to narrating. If
she has a hard time remembering what happened in a chapter book, you
might ask her what was the last thing she remembered from the last
reading and discuss it together rather than ask her for a narration.

Leslie
Noelani

Question:
Do you read the section of book, have the child narrate the section and
then move onto the next book?

Basically,
yes. In our homeschool, we do try to vary the readings. This means that
I try not to have two science or two history books back to back. I try
also to alternate reading with other activities for school--some of
these might be math, handwork, music practice, foreign language,
singing, drawing, nature study, picture study, music study, or even ten
minutes on the rebounder.

Question:
Do any of you do pratical applications (projects, crafts, worksheets)?
This is where the Charlotte Mason difference really shows, I think.
Narration is practical application, more practical by far than
worksheets. Think about it--I am often asked for my opinion of a book,
to relay telephone messages, to summarize a letter from Grandma, to
communicate symptoms to a doctor or to relay doctor's instructions to a
family member, to share information about how we homeschool, to give
directions, to write an article, to teach a ladies' Bible's class, to
explain how I parent, to help somebody else homeschool... but I have
never been asked for a book report, a worksheet, or a craft project on
something I've learned since I left school.

There
can be a place for some projects and crafts--as part of the
afternoon's handiwork in certain cases. And sometimes narration is done
by drawing first and then telling about it, or by modeling a scene with
clay or bricks, and then telling about it.

Narration
seems so simple, but it really gets the brain working on all sorts of
complex tasks, reviewing, reasoning, comparing, contrasting,
organizing, selecting, and summarizing--then the child tells back,
which is also an important skill in communication. Here's something
I've tried--I read something to myself, and then I tell it back to
myself--this was much harder than I expected the first few times I
tried it! This is a very complex task we're asking of our children! I
would suggest you begin very slowly--when first narrating, read only a
paragraph at a time, then ask for a narration, then read the next
paragraph.

Wendi

Question:
Do you read the section of book, have the child narrate the section and
then move onto the next book? Do any of you do pratical applications
(projects, crafts, worksheets)?

I
think I know what you're asking; I asked the same thing myself once on
the Charlotte Mason VegSource Education board and got some good
responses. The whole thing sounds like just reading, no hands-on of any
kind? But that's only part of it. For one thing, don't forget that the
book lessons are to be alternated with more hands-on activities, table
work, moving-around things (and with young children, some traditionally
quieter subjects can BECOME moving-around things. One advisory member
practices French phrases with her son while tossing a ball back and
forth; my oldest learned phonics while jumping up and down the stairs).
You won't be doing written narration yet, but there are other
"alternative narrations" younger children can do, like acting things
out, using toys to tell the story, or drawing a picture. Also don't
forget about science experiments, nature drawings and "collections".
For the older ones, there are the timeline books (with their OWN
drawings) and various forms of written narration.

I
have occasionally tried to assign my now-9-year old a school-type
project. A teacher friend of mine who uses many Charlotte Mason ideas
in her classroom told me that, for instance, when they did
Paddle-to-the--Sea, she had each child do a large collage poster
illustrating some aspect of the province of Ontario (where we live). My
daughter was about 7 at the time, same age as the kids in this class,
but she just wasn't ready to handle that much independent work. I would
have ended up doing most of it myself, so I dropped the idea. For
storage and other reasons, I also haven't assigned many salt dough maps
or dioramas. One thing we've done several times, though, is to have an
"Egypt night" or whatever we were studying at the time--that seems to
be a way to incorporate several small projects--food, decorations etc.
--plus various forms of dramatic narrations. (We had a puppet interview
about finding King Tut's tomb.)

We
also use maps a lot, follow along with things we're reading. When we
read Minn of the Mississippi, I pasted a large map of the US (freebie
from old National Geographic) on poster board, we made a small paper
turtle for Minn, and stuck it on with sticky tack to show where she
ended up each week.

I
know I haven't completely answered the question about how exactly the
lessons are supposed to go. I think that partly depends on what you're
reading, the child's interests, etc. Charlotte Mason would not have
said not to do hands-on and followup activities, but I think she would
have hoped that much of that would come out of the child's interest in
the story, rather than being assigned and marked. (Yes, I know that's
idealistic, so sometimes homeschool moms have to help that along,
particularly when it's your oldest child who isn't very old yet and
always wants to know what to do next.)

Question:
What do you do when your child consitently gives poor narrations?

I
would say shorten the reading, but you already did that. Another thing
CM did is begin by introducing somethign called the 'informing idea.'
You might introduce a reading on the Pilgrims, for example, by saying
something like, "What would you do if the ruler of your country
wouldn't let you worship God the way you wanted? Listen and let's see
what one group of people did." Or, "What would it be like to cross an
ocean on a raft? What kind of dangers might you run into? Let's read
this and see what happened."

This
helps focus their attention. Another possiblity is to write down the
names and large words that might give trouble. Write them down and
pronounce them together before you begin. Leave this list out for use
when he narrates back.

Question:
How do you grade narrations? I don't know how to evaluate narrations!

I
don't grade them. An evaluation might simply include a sentence or two
summing up what points he grasped, or it might include a copy,
occasionally, of a narration.

Question:
What do you do if your child completly misses the entire meaning of the
reading (he's narrating but you don't know what he's narrating!)?

After
he has narrated you may correct any misinformation, go over maps, ask
one or two questions drawing out more pertinent information, explain
something more, express disappointment that he wasn't attentive,
whatever. Just so long as he narrates first.

Question:
Is 10 yrs the time to start written narrations? Should you require a
certian length?

Written
narrations never completely replace oral ones. I would start Slowly--a
sentence or two or three.

There
is a gold mine of information on narration in our shared files under
Parents' Reviews.

Wendi

>

Question:
Do we just read the book selections aloud and then have them narrate
immediately after the reading??

That's
most important. Narration is a deceptively simple activity. But
narration will provide your child with far richer learning and
reviewing than a dozen workbook pages, six projects which take up the
dining room table, 20 'creative writing assignments' or a bazillion
true false tests. Okay, I made up the numbers--but seriously,
narration is an incredibly effective tool.

You
can also do mapwork and timeline activities--simply spend a few
minutes making entries from the reading for a timeline or century book.
Look for places on the map. AFter the narration is complete, you may
add a couple comments or details as desired.

There
is more on narration in our some Parents
Review articles. Check
these sources out for further detail on this powerful little activity.=)

Wendi

Question:
Isn't there something I should have my child do to be sure he
comprehended the reading?? Didn't Charlotte Mason do other kinds of
comprehension things?

It
is my understanding that she had the children merely read and narrate.
That's it. If that is the case, it will be easy to tell whether a child
has the information or not. Slow and measured digestion comes with the
narration.

Donna-Jean

Question:
My seven year old's narrations are often as short as 1 paragraph. How
do I improve his narrations?

If
this is orally, I don't consider that a problem. Oral narration in a CM
education does not begin before age 6--and some children take a *very*
long time to get the hang of it (many boys, especially, really don't
"click" with oral narration for some time after 6). A paragraph or
longer on a section of a chapter or a short story is,

in my
humble opinion :-), very good for a boy this age.

I
am assuming you don't mean written narration. Written narration
typically comes much later--not until ages 9 or 10 (in a child who has
adequate reading and writing skills), or until a child (even an older
child, new to CM) has at least a couple of years of oral narration
under their belts. The time period in which a child transitions into
written narration (although oral narration never should actually end)
typically produces short narrations.

My
own experience is that of a now 16 year old daughter who has had a
CM-styled education since she started. She did oral narration, then
transitioned over to written, and now still is required to do written
narrations and oral narrations. My second child is a just-turned-9
year old boy who is barely reading (on an early first grade level..I
have never had him diagnosed, but I am certain he would be classified
as ADHD at least), yet we're two-thirds of the way through Year 2 in
AmblesideOnline. I read all the passages aloud to him--and he narrates
them back to me in a variety of ways...

He
is given a choice: he can "tell me," "ask me questions" (he asks me
several questions from the material), "act it out," "draw it" (in which
case he tells me about what he has drawn, so that the oral skills
happen without him being aware of it), or "lego it" (using his
playmobil guys or legos to act it out). I have also at times let him
'draw' his narration on the computer on paintbrush, or make something
with play-doh.

My
youngest, 5 1/2 yod, is not yet in AmblesideOnline year 1--I will start her
next year (she can already read ahead of her brother, but I expect to
do the vast majority of the reading for her). However, she is listening
in on her brother's read alouds, and she sometimes pipes in with a
narration comment or two. I do not require it of her, however.

Hope
this is helpful to someone! :-)

Love
in Christ,
Donna-Jean
Breckenridge

I
am learning more and more to respect the process of narration. Yet I
think everyone struggles with this. Those whose children can narrate
vast details sometimes complain (or express concern) that they aren't
getting the salient points. Those whose children give very brief and
sparse narrations are also concerned they aren't getting it. And while
we worry over them learning the process of narration, material is being
read and completed (and 'done with') that we wonder if they really
got and if it needs to be reviewed and drilled into them....

If
I come across a particularly complicated passage (or hard to follow)
such as in This Country of Ours, I will tell him ahead of time,
"Remember what happened yesterday? (pause and see if he does) Well,
that general is going to try and get the other side to do
such-and-such, and to do that he will do such-and-such--let's see how
it turns out!"

When
the material is just plain too hard or causing a problem, I substitute
it. What comes to mind is something about the Cavaliers in This Country
of Ours. It may have been the material, it may have been just a bad
time in our house or with my son and me, but I was looking at this one
day and thinking I never heard of this, why on earth does this
child who's doing a backflip off the rocking chair need to hear this??
(Come to think of it, maybe I was the one having the bad day! :-)

So
I canned that chapter or two in the book, read some extra children's
books from the time period to him (I think it was near the Pilgrim
time, or maybe John Smith, I forget) during those weeks, and picked up
the schedule when that part was over. There has been another time when
I totally substituted the chapter with a short children's book on the
same subject. (Other times, I have read a short book in addition -
such as this week, when I read a children's book on Martin Luther,
which is what we're up to in A Child's History of the World).

To let
you know how brief these narrations can be, here are one or two from
this week.

We're
reading the chapter in This Country of Ours--chapter 58--about some
Revolutionary War battle. I read him two pages (about a third of the
chapter) because the narrative fit (to break it up there would have
been illogical). I gave him a narration option, and he asked me
questions--only two! "Why did the Americans lie? Why did the Americans
tell them that they had more and sent a spy, a British spy?" That was
it. Then he proceeded to run back and forth in the room, acting like
the British spy who was sent back to the Brits and the Indians to say
the Americans had this huge army. It was a lot of running and panting,
and acting like being the next spy, and the next...

Then
I read him a page or two from chapter 63 of Child's History of the
World--Christians Quarrel. (I only have the paperback edition from
Sonlight--I don't think the chapters correspond with the hardback). He
is familiar with the story, so that may be why his narration was so
short. But this was what he said. "He nailed the rules on the church
door." ("How many?") "95." ("Who?") "Martin Luther." ("Why?") "So
they'll obey the right rules." (As you can see, it was not a chatty
day...)

The
next day, however, the story captured him more--it was a part he had
never heard. Even then, though, it was not extensive. I had read
another page from the book, with a logical story portion. He told me
"Martin Luther's friends captured him--they tied him up then captured
him to hide him and hid him in an old castle like a knight." (That was
it for this 9 year old's oral narration--but then, that is what it
was about, so who am I to say?) Little sister (5 1/2) piped in, "They
dressed him like a knight."

I
felt he was missing the point of knowing how to define the reformation,
so I then asked him "What is the Reformation?" and he said "When Martin
Luther nailed the thing--the paper--upon the door, about trusting in
God." Little sister added, "about believing in God."

And
then when we read chapter 19 of Pagoo yesterday, he suddenly (when I
said you have to narrate this) reached his arm out for his popcorn, ate
it wolfishly, then hurled the plastic bowl across the room. While I
went livid and started to scold him, he brightly announced "I'm the
octopus! I just threw away the shell!" and I realizd he was acting out
how the octopus ate the snail by grabbing it with its tentacle and then
how it threw the snail shell away.....(never a dull moment...)

Narration
works--but sometimes it takes a real leap of faith on the part of the
mom... :-)

Love
in Christ,
Donna-Jean
Breckenridge

Question:
How often do we do narration?

My
understanding of how Charlotte Mason applied narration is that in order
for it to be a really effective tool, every book, every reading, every
lesson must be narrated.

Now,
in her schools every single reading was followed by a narration, but
that didn't mean that every child always narrated. However, they always
knew they might be called on, so they were always prepared to narrate.
Knowing that they stood a good chance of being called on to narrate
probably gave an edge to their attention skills.=)

At
home this is a little harder, but there are ways around it. If you have
more than one child reading the same book they can alternate
narrations, or one can start, you interrupt them midstream and have
another finish (you should not have one child narrate the whole story
and then another child narrate the same story).

Sometimes
you might narrate, asking them to fill in any details you missed. And
you can do a search of our archives here, looking for 'narration jar'
for more ideas.

We
also have two or three articles from the original Parents'
Reviews,
written, most of them, in Charlotte Mason's time. Feel free to print
them out to look them over.

Wendi

Question:
I need some suggestions on getting my son familiar with the idea of
narration. He is not yet in year 1. We are reading through Charlotte's
Web right now. Should I scan the chapter ahead of time and go over
unfamiliar words with him in advance?

You
didn't say how old your ds is, but I'm assuming he's not yet 6, right?
With a child that young, you can introduce them to one or two new words
before the reading and they may have a fair chance of being able to
piece the definitions to the words when they come up in the reading
later. But if you introduce them to more than a couple, they will very
likely lose track of the definitions by the time you come to them. I
often just read the word, pause, look at the child and say a synonymous
word, and then go on as seamlessly as possible. To help the child
absorb the word, I sometimes say it with a little punch, and then
repeat its phrase after offering a synonym: "The chipmunk found himself
in a most precarious -- or 'dangerous' -- in a most precarious
situation." Kids love big words, and I always found that glossing the
word with a little drama quite often led to it immediately being tossed
about at the dinner table and in the back yard. That's what we're after.

Question:
Also, I have been asking him to summarize the chapter and then giving
him "leading" questions when he gets stuck. Any thoughts?

If
he's younger than six, he's probably too young for formal narration...
but it's a good age to have Daddy ask him over dinner to "tell me what
happened with Wilbur and Fern and Charlotte today!" Telling Daddy
stories over dinner is where my kids learned to narrate!

Lynn
Bruce

Narration
with an older (Year 7 and high school) student

I
don't see myself as an expert on narration--but perhaps what we've
done can provide some perspective.

I have
three children--age 15, age 8 1/2, and age 5. We've always
homeschooled, and always in a Charlotte Mason style.

Creating
a CM-styled high school program was a challenge. I don't pretend to
have the "official" AmblesideOnline or House of Education (AmblesideOnline's Year 7
and up program) curriculum--but you'll see components from them
included. On our website below my signature, we have linked the
material Bethany completed last year for grade 9--and the plan for her
in this 10th grade year.

In
reading Charlotte Mason's material and noting the importance of
narrating every lesson, I've determined that every subject or course
of study must have some sort of "output."

I
have attempted to vary these significantly. For instance, my 15 year
old daughter is reading through the entire Bible over the course of 4
years. Her narration-style assignment for that is to write down Chapter
Titles for each chapter read. (In this way, when she completes high
school, she will have her own collection of chapter titles for every
chapter of the Bible.)

Also
for Bible, she is reading parts of Lewis Sperry Chafer's Systematic
Theology. For that, she is to write what I called Narration Notes--she
writes down in note-form (not necessarily complete sentences) a
narration from the passage assigned to that week. She also does
Narration Notes for her reading of HomeSchool Legal Defense Assoc's
course "Introduction to Argumentation and Debate." Her daily Current
Events assignment is narrated very briefly, and could also be called
"Narration Notes" (a short paragraph each day--they are often more in
complete sentences, though).

For
history, she has three assignments per week: pages from Churchill's
"The Great Democracies," a speech or writing of Abraham Lincoln, and a
chapter or a speech from another person of the time we're studying
(1815-1900). For each of those, she must write a short Written
Narration (hand-written, usually one notebook page, sometimes less than
that).

For
literature, she has one significant work per term. This term, it's
Herman Melville's "Moby Dick." I don't ask for any narration through
the term. Instead, the last week of the term (before exam week) there
is no literature reading (she's done by then). She uses that time for a
Creative Narration. We talk ahead of time of how to do this, and then
she does the writing. (It counts as her exam for that subject that
term.) Some examples of her Creative Narrations are on our website. (We
need to update this, and add some from last year.) In the past, she's
done things like writing a one-act play (she did that with Jane Austen,
and it's on our site), writing a letter as though written by the author
of the work (last year, she wrote a letter as though from Jonathan
Swift to a new publisher, telling about his work "Gulliver's Travels,
accompanied by some illustrations), re-telling the story in a
character's voice (last year, she had Hester Prynne as an older woman
writing Pearl and telling her about their shared past) or re-telling
the story in a different setting (last year, she re-told Dickens' "Tale
of Two Cities" in a Civil War setting).

Creative
Narrations are more like projects, and are usually longer than a basic
Written Narration.

For
poetry, we read aloud one poem (or part of a poem) per day--from the
same poet for 4 or 5 weeks. At the end of that time of 4-5 weeks, she
must write a Poetic Narration of that poet's work (She narrates the
poetry in poetic form, either as a sonnet, or in a style reminiscent of
that poet).

In
other subjects, we do Oral Narration. For her reading of Robert Louis
Stevenson's Art of Writing, she tells me orally what she read in her
assigned section for that week. The same is true for her reading of a

particular
composer in "The Gift of Music," or her assigned reading for the week
in Van Loon's "The Arts" (which is being spread out over four years).

There
are subjects in which the standard "output" is regular testing. We do
that for Math-U-See and for Apologia's Chemistry. However, we do have
once a week times of Oral Discussion for chemistry, and that way I'm
able to gauge further her level of understanding of the material.

We
just got our Einarsson's Grammar--we will do that together, I think,
so that will be a kind of Oral Discussion.

For
French, when we read a passage or a story in French, she narrates it
orally in French. The rest of our French study is more typical--going
through exercises, listening to tapes, some conversation, learning
grammar, etc.

Once a
week, she is required to do a Drawn Narration--which can be of
anything she has read during the week.

At
the end of each term, she does exams--which I suppose could be called
Exam Narrations, since they usually take the form of what we think of
as essay questions.

I
don't ask for a certain number of narrations per week. Instead, I go
through each subject and decide what kind of narration output best fits
that subject, and adjust the frequency of those narrations accordingly.

Love
in Him,
Donna-Jean
Breckenridge

Question:
Where do you stop in the reading for narration?

This
depends on your child. Based on what you've said before, I would
suggest that you begin by asking for a narration after a single
paragraph or event. It doesn't matter how slowly you go. What matters
is learning to be an attentive listener and becoming familiar with the
language.

Question:
Every couple of paragraphs, every couple of pages? How do I make sure
he understands? Sometimes he says, "what does that mean?"

If
he asks while you are reading you go ahead and stop for a moment and
explain. The explanation should be short but clear. When you pick up
the reading again ask him "Now, where were we?" Let him give you a
sentence or two to 'help' you find your place.

Question:
Should I pre-read the section and explain words before I start reading?

I
do this sometimes with the harder books. I did it for my 12 y.o. when
she was ten and first reading Plutarch. What we did is used the 20
minutes or so immediately prior to our Plutarch reading for dictionary
study. I would pre-read the Plutarch selection and make a list of words
I thought most likely to give her trouble. This wasn't just the harder
words, but also words that had the fewest contextual clues. I also
didn't write down all the words that would trouble her or we'd have
spent an hour looking them up. Keep it short. Then we'd look up words
together and she would summarize the definition. I wrote the words and
short definitions on index cards. Later, she did this herself.

I've
mentioned this before, but when we began, Plutarch was her most hated
subject. She cried sometimes. We persevered and by the end of that
school year it was her favorite book!

I
would also suggest two other things.

When
you are about to begin the reading, ask your child first to sum up
where you are now. This isn't a entire narration of all the reading
thus far, just a brief account of the very last part of the last
reading.

Also,
when you preread the section try to make a note to yourself of some
important or interesting point in that reading (it need not be
earth-shattering). Then when you are ready to begin the reading,
introduce this idea--usually by a question--I'm trying to think of a
good example here. Umm, maybe 'Have you ever wondered about ________?
Today we're going to read about one person's idea.' Probably still not
clear. It's been a long time since I read Pilgrim's Progress. How
about, "Christian was given specific instructions. Today we're going to
find out what happened once when he didn't follow them." Or "One of the
problems Christian encounters along his journey is despair, or being
discouraged. Let's find out how he handles that."

You
could also wrap up a reading by asking what your child thinks might
happen next, or what should happen, or what he wishes did happen.

Wendi

I
thought I'd add a suggestion or two for oral narration, especially for
the "physically active" kind of kid.

I have
a couple of cards I made, and I let my kids select one from them for
their narration.

One
has a ? mark on it--and that means they can ask Mommy about 5
questions. (Using questions as a form of narration requires the child
to still process and analyze the information in their own minds.) They
enjoy this way of being the "teacher" even though they're still the
ones learning!

Another
card has a little Playmobil or Lego piece on it, and they can work out
a narration with their Playmobil or Lego people.

Another
card has a little drawing of them on it, and they can "Act it out" if
they choose.

One
more card has crayons on it, and it means they can do a Drawn
narration.

The
last card simply says "Tell Mom" on it, and they can do the usual "tell
back" narration.

Yesterday,
my 8 year old son (who does not read yet, past a very beginning level,
so I read aloud the passages to him) asked if he could narrate Pagoo
using Paintbrush on the computer. As he made his "drawing," I jotted
down his ongoing commentary. Here's what he said (this was for chapter
9, I believe it was):

"The
LandLady's on the bottom, and this is Pagoo's shell that he's strying
to squeeze out of. Here's the LandLady--but then she saw the gull! And
here's her shell. I'm making her legs--making her feelers. There's
Pagoo--there's his eye, his feelers...Pagoo's banging on the walls,
right Mom? There's somethng I can make on Pagoo -look--his twisted
tail!....this is the opening of the shell--you can't get to it."

Allowing
my kids to select which form of narration they will use has helped a
bit with the reluctance and even the hostility toward narration that
we sometimes encounter.

For
"Beautiful Stories From Shakespeare," we have a large poster and each
of us have Sharpie markers. We add stick figures or little identifying
actions as we sort of "chart" the portion of the story we read each
week. (This idea came from Vanessa awhile back.) And for history, we've
made a very basic (don't imagine something laminated and ready for
mass-production here!) rolled-up timeline chart (made of "butcher
paper" and that is the length of a long room). B.C. and A.D. are marked
off, along with basic century areas. Sometimes we've photocopied a
little picture from Child's History of the World and taped it on, but
usually we've just made a little drawing. I'm learning to just roll
this out on the floor once a week--say, on a Friday--and we can mark
off what we've learned in This Country of Ours and Child's History of
the World for that week (as well as any other reading, such as our
night-time reading of Childhood of Famous Americans).

Hope
that helps someone!

Love
in Christ,
Donna-Jean
Breckenridge

Question:
What if my son is reluctant about narrating?

I
don't know--mine all chatter like magpies to me, sometimes to the
point where I want to cover my ears and shout "enough!"

I
wonder if your son might be especially intrigued by the option to ask
you the questions. This is a very valuable form of narration.
Deciding what questions to ask involves going over the material
internally just as a more routine oral narration does, and accessing
which is important, which isn't. It's also, for those who are
interested, one of the higher levels of thinking in Bloom's taxonomy of
thinking skills.

Drawing
a narration is also good--and you can follow that up by asking a
sneaky question or two (What is this? What is happening there? How come
you drew the sword that way?).

And
maybe narrating into a tape recorder in the privacy of his own room is
something your son might do.

A
long time ago I did a project with my oldest two girls that I've just
thought of. Maybe you could adapt it somehow to narration (I'm just
thinking off the top of my head here).

I
made out various assignment cards for Bible study and wrote them up on
index cards. I put each one in a manilla envelope and on the envelope I
wrote "Secret Mission # 1" of course changing the numbers for each
mission.

One
of the assignments was to copy a list of verses into the backs of their
Bibles, and for that one I included a new pen each. Another was to read
a certain story in bed under the covers at night, and for that I
included a small flashlight.

I'm
wondering if some hitherto reluctant narrators might not be drawn in by
making up secret mission assignments--they might have a card saying
something like "You are a reporter smuggling out a dangerous report on
the activities of the Greek army at Troy. Dictate your report to your
secretary (mom)." "You are a famous artist and you have been given a
commission to paint a picture showing the events at Marathon, how would
you paint it?" And he could either paint a picture or just tell you how
he would do it.

The
trick would be not to make the glamour of the assignment over ride the
actual narrations, but doing something along these lines might ease
some bashful narrators into narrating as they act a part outside
themselves. And, of course, this is a little extra work for you, which
is another good reason not to overdo it.

Perhaps
just doing this sort of narration every once in a while would be enough
to peak interest and get cooperation in more everyday narrations?

Just a
thought,

Wendi

Someone
asked about writing paragraphs (during narration) and whether or not we
should stress all the paragraph writing rules that teachers use (begin
with a topic sentence, then the main body, use a concluding sentence,
etc.). I wanted to share this short paragraph that my 9yo did this
morning (it was a narration of a section from an old non-AmblesideOnline book
she's reading, Our Plant Friends and Foes).

"Guess
what family the apple comes from? If you said fruit or tree, you're
wrong. Apples actually come from the rose family. The rose hip is
really a tiny apple. Think about the difference of the leaves. Not
much."

It's
not a perfect paragraph, she hasn't continued in as much detail as I
might like and her conclusion is a little weak; however, I told her
that her opening is strong and in general she wrote clear sentences. My
point here is that she handled this on her own without being told to
shape her paragraph in a certain way; she was retelling what she read
in a natural way, and that's what I wanted.

Anne W.

Question:
I'm starting my 10 year old on written narrations. I was just going to
start with one of her literature books and gradually work up to several
books. She usually reads a chapter each week from the book. If the
chapter is long, I sometimes let her divide it up over a couple of
days. So, should I wait until she finishes the chapter every wk. before
I ask for a written narration, or should I just ask for a written
narration from that day's reading while she's in the middle of the
chapter?

I'm
having my 9yo write about one narration a day, from a short reading in
one of the assigned books (that is, usually a different book each day).
If you're having her do it all from one book, then I'd definitely have
her do it after each reading, not when she finishes the chapter.

I
think one problem you run into if it's always from the one book is that
you do have to keep the readings short, particularly if they're slow
readers and/or writers; and that means you can get behind schedule.
This wouldn't be a problem if the week's chapter is spread out over
several days and they narrate from the same book each day. I was having
my 9yo do written narrations this fall from It Couldn't Just Happen,
along with a couple of other books, as I said, on other days; and I
found it took about a month just to get through one chapter. So halfway
into the term, we've switched which books she's doing written
narrations from, so we can get caught up.

Anne W.

I'm
having my 9 year old (Year 4) read from a book called Armed with
Courage. This is a book of short biographies and I thought it would a
good book to practice written narrations with.

Anyway,
my daughter finished the first two sections (Florence Nightingale and
Father Damien) over several weeks, and produced written narrations that
were not bad but fairly sketchy in detail. Today we started the third
section (George Washington Carver) and I decided to do a complete
switch: she read three pages out loud to me and I gave her an oral
narration. Of course she has to pay attention to my narration to see if
I missed anything...<g>

Anne W.

Question:
Is it appropriate to require a written narration from a book that was
read-aloud to the child?

Sure,
we do that too, and I think it would have been done many times in
Charlotte Mason's day, in classroom situations where there was only one
copy of the book and the teacher read aloud.

Anne W.

Question:
My six year old has trouble telling back the moral of Aesop's fables.
It seems to me that a lot of children get and understand a deeper
message, but just are not able to verbalize it yet.

My
memories of my own childhood also lead me to the same conclusion. I
vividly remember knowing something deep down, but being unable to
articulate what I knew and understood. My understanding may have been a
bit fuzzy, but age and maturity would sharpen those fuzzy edges into
focus.

I
also suspect that stories like Aesop's fables are so memorable that a
child may have a 'feeling' about the story and its moral, but be unable
to articulate it or define it at 6. Then at 8 or 9 in his reading he
may be reminded of the story and suddenly recognize more meaning, or
words to give that nebulous feeling he had expression--and a few years
later, get even more understanding. But it starts with just being able
to read and narrate the story.

Wendi

Charlotte
Mason believed narration was valuable for students to give them an
opportunity to review the information in their own minds, to process,
reflect, and most importantly, to communicate what they know.

When
they know that they will have narrate something, in some way, after
every reading, they attend to the reading with sharper attention. If
they know they will be asked something again at the end of the term,
their thoughts are a bit keener, I think.

Wendi

Question:
What is narration for? Especially as it relates to written narration?

Narration
is your child/student connecting with the material, getting in touch
with the facts clothed in literary language, getting to know an artist,
a poet, a general, a mythological story, a brave young girl, a foolish
animal, a truth....and then relating those ideas articulately. The
articulate part will develop and grow (though it is often evident in
beginning narrations.... I think I mean the articulate part will get
more "polished"), because this is teaching composition skills!

Do
you remember writing a first draft? Well, written narrations are like
that--they are written with the intent of writing, of expressing....
with one exception--they are not meant to be re-written over and over
and over. That would kill the spirit of the child to have to correct
and re-write every narration (assuming you are requiring somewhat
frequent narrations).

I
have read of some parents really doing this to death, missing the point
of narration entirely. They go over a written narration, have the child
re-write it again and again (in some perceived lesson on penmanship),
then they use that same narration for dictation and for copywork. That
is not how CM teaches! Narration is about the art of writing--and by
writing, I mean 'composing' if you will, not spelling and handwriting,
etc. (They will learn that better from copying works that are already
established as great! :-)

To
me, listening to my child's written narration is listening to their
heart. I can "hear" what they understood and valued--and I can offer
respect to their composition by listening.

Love
in Christ,
Donna-Jean
Breckenridge

Narration
is deceptively simple (I suggest reading the Parents
Review articles
on narration on AmblesideOnline's webpage). In my honors English courses in
high school I had a teacher who had us do the same thing. This isn't
what she called it, but it is what we did. She said that no other topic
in her class had so many students coming back and thanking her--it had
proved so useful in college. She was right.

Wendi

Question:
We aren't supposed to correct a narration?

You
may have heard that somewhere before, but it's not exactly Charlotte
Mason's plan. It's true that we don't want to interrupt a narration in
any way, but when it is finished, there is no problem with correcting
information, or asking another child to add something that may have
been left out. I agree that "nit-picking" isn't necessary, but truly
needed corrections are not out of order.

For
example--when my then 6yo daughter narrated that Columbus sailed
across the Pacific ocean, I waited until she was finished. Then we got
out the globe and located Spain, America, and the Pacific and Atlantic
Oceans, so she could "see" which ocean he crossed. It was really just a
slip of the tongue for her--she knew the names of two oceans, but
really didn't have a clue as to which was which or where they were. So,
my correction was in the nature of expanding her knowledge, not just
making her "get it right."

Check
out the Parents
Review articles
on narration (Charlotte Mason was the editor of the Parents' Review
until her death)--they really give a lot of great examples about the
way narration was used in her schools.

~Karen

Question:
Can we do a Question: discussion after a narration?

Yes -
discussion after narration is just fine, and it is very CM.=)

The
main point is to have the child narrate first, without interruption,
and have discussion, if you want discussion, afterward. As long as the
discussion of what she read comes after the narration, it's fine.

The
point of not interrupting is so as to not distract her train of thought
--even her train is derailing. The first step should be her narration
from start to finish. THEN you do all the discussion you want.

When
she thinks she's done it's fine to draw out more ideas, to help her
clarify, to correct, to share more insight of your own, whatever. If
you've not been to the Parents' Review articles on narration, you might
want to check them out--fantastic stuff there!

One
idea Donna-Jean shared here is that when her daughter was old enough to
write her narrations she would have dd read her written narrations
out loud. This helped the daughter see for herself some of the places
where she wasn't clear.

Wendi

Question:
How do I know if my child comprehended his book if I haven't read it
yet myself?

I
think Charlotte Mason and her teachers had read the books. Charlotte
Mason had no family to care for, her teachers usually didn't either,
and in the case of mothers at home teaching their children, well, those
mothers generally had all kinds of household help that we don't. Though
it would be ideal for us to read the books, if we can't, we can't. Some
things to do that might help:

Skim
just the section the children are reading each week.

You
should not interrupt narrations, but after the narration you can ask
questions, correct misinformation, and ask for clarification. This is a
good way to find out how well they are understanding the material in
many instances.

We
occasionally share our childrens' narrations here on this list. This
does many things--shows other parents what children of a certain and
year are doing, gives your children an audience, and gives you a forum
for input. You can ask what others who have read the book think of the
narration.

Look
online for summaries of the book or lesson plans. Use the lesson plans
only as a reference for you to help you see what kinds of things your
child might be narrating about.

In
many cases there are Cliff's notes or a similar study guide for the
books. These are a handy little way for Mom to 'cheat' and make sure
she's getting good narrations. You read the study guide, your child
reads the book.=)

In
general, their narrations themselves will give us a good idea of how
well they're understanding the books--but there are occasions where a
child will give a confidant, articulate narration, and be eloquently
wrong about what they've read.=O

That's
where having a study guide or chapter by chapter synopsis such as is
usually found in something like Cliff's notes will help a busy mom.

Wendi

Oral
narrations do not have to be written down at all unless you want to do
so. I've heard "you have to write down their narrations" from a few
people describing Charlotte Mason methods, but I have never read
anything in Charlotte Mason's books or in Parents'
Review articles that
supports that idea. I transcribe exams done on tape, but that's all.

Anne W.

Narration
is recommended for children of about 6 and up. I have an almost-5-yo
who sometimes narrates to me, but I don't pressure her to do so. It's
an acquired skill (not an easy one!), and it's best to start out short.
A whole Bible chapter is probably too much, for example; one episode,
one Aesop's fable, one part of a fairy tale or history lesson, would be
enough at a reading if they're just getting their feet wet. It's also
fun to use alternate forms of narration, such as acting out a story or
drawing a picture, or having the child pretend they are the main
character and tell about what happened. Often a discussion question or
two can follow narration, and if the books touch their imaginations,
the children may ask the questions themselves. (A sure sign of
comprehension!)

Anne W

Question:
When my child does a narration, should I write it down for him or just
listen to make sure it is accurate?

You'll
be listening to way too many narrations to write them all down! The
only time I keep a written record of an oral narration is at term exam
time. I tape our exams, and try to type them up later (though I have
two terms backed up waiting for time to type them!).

When
my younger dd was seven, she developed a big thing for George
Washington that went on for over a year. She read stacks of books about
him, and narrated all of them (whether we wanted her to or not ;-))).
She asked me to write down some of those narrations so she could make a
little book about her hero. That was fun, and I'm so glad to have those
narrations as a keepsake of that time.

But
other than special things like that, I just listen.

Lynn
Bruce

Question:
after I read to my child how does the child record the session since
there are no worksheets?

Narrations!
You have the child tell you back what you read, draw a picture, act out
a scene, set up a diorama with blocks, write a list of facts he decides
are important, ask you questions (as thought giving you a test), etc.
If you go to our website and look up the articles on narration from the
Parents'
Review articles, you
can find out more.

Wendi

Question:
My 8 year old daughter doesn't stay focused if I read aloud to her and
therefore cannot form even a simple narration of what I have read. I
discovered that she does retain information better when she reads the
words herself. But I think the AmblesideOnline books may be too hard for her
to read on her own. Should I break down the reading into smaller
assignments?

I
am giving you this straight from the mouth of my 10 year old reluctant
narrator <g>--her opinion is that shortening the readings
probably wouldn't help if your daughter is reading them well enough
already. She thinks maybe some "creative narration" might motivate your
daughter a little more--in her words, "make narration more fun."

My
own opinion is that you might want to shorten the readings too, along
with providing some narration alternatives. My experience (after all
these years) is that some kids (mine) will continue to say "I don't
like narrating," and all you can do is keep working both on the
narration and on the attitude. Don't let yourself get too frustrated.

Anne W.

Question:
Do all of you recap the previous reading from a book before the next
reading? Did Charlotte Mason recommend that the children recap the
previous day's reading before starting the next reading? I usually have
one of my children tell me about the previous day's reading, but the
more proficient they become at narration, the longer it takes!

Chuckle
--sounds like your kids are great narrators! Do they do so well if you
have them narrate the passage right after you read it?

If
it is taking too long, though, you might try saying, "Now, where were
we?" to start things off, and then getting right into the story.

Anne W.

For
both of my children, I consider narration to be an integral part of
Language Arts. That is their composition, their reading comprehension,
their creative writing, their sentence structure and their grammar
understanding.

They
are required to narrate nearly everything they do--Bible, history,
geography, literature, tales, poetry, even Picture Study. That's a lot
of narrating. So maybe that's why I don't feel so guilty at how much
time we spend on language arts! :-)

CM says in the introduction to volume 6, "the whole
intellectual apparatus of the teacher, his power of vivid presentation,
apt illustration, able summing up, subtle questioning, all these were
hindrances and intervened between children and the right nutriment duly
served"

What a topsy turvy view we tend to have--that we must slice and dice
and pulverize the material and present it to the children arranged
carefully on the plate of our choosing, and then they must repeat our
recipe and answer our questions.

My husband is fond of saying that the one who asks the questions is the
one controlling the conversation--he tells me this to advise me in
another circumstance, but I think it applies here, too.

When we are asking the formal questions, asking for the formal,
workbook style responses to our
questions, we are controlling the conversation, but more devastingly, I
think, we are controlling the children's thought processes, and
blocking off trains of thought that might have proved profitable to
them.

CM says again, "What, then, is
knowledge?--was the next question that occurred; a question which the
intellectual labour of ages has not settled; but perhaps this is enough
to go on with;--that only becomes knowledge to a person which he has
assimilated, which his mind has acted upon."

Which is why we need to be very, very careful to give the children time
to let their minds act upon the material.

Wendi

Before I give you a description of narration in our house, I'd like to
say a little more in the way of background. Just know that some of my
thoughts and methods are informed by CM and some by my training as an
English major.

The first step in knowing a book is becoming familiar with that
book--what it actually says, its structure, style, time period and so
forth. You could even liken it to getting to know a person. You must,
firstly, find out basic, relevant things. I have found that in my
various work of dealing with many kinds of persons, there are many ways
to glean knowledge of a person. Some say I'm a 'people person'. Those
who know me more intimately agree I am more of an introvert. When I was
young, my mother liked to engage me in the pleasant pastime of
people-watching. We would tell one another what we knew about the
person by simply watching. Over time I became at adept at noticing.
Attending to dress, gait, carriage, expression, body-language.

I've never thought much about this before but as I was considering
narration and how it is like getting to know a person, I remembered
this activity. My mother perfected my people skills with narration! My
point is that attending is a skill that can be gained regardless of
one's disposition. Narration is the way to build this skill and it is
also regardless of disposition.

It begins with building up the attention to the most basic things.
Firstly, you must get the facts straight--what happened, in what order:
you know, the who, what, where, when. Gradually, one begins to notice
more detail. In this noticing, the mind begins to ask itself questions.
Why is this told first and that later? Why this word of description and
not another? Why is this worth mentioning? And so on.

Without following this course of 'knowing', we lay ourselves open
to many misinterpretations. Because we have observed carelessly, the
foundation of our knowledge is suspect and, at its best, cursory. Also,
this habit cannot be secured secondhand by attempting to guide the
child through the hoops. No doubt, there is merit in a well-asked
question, but it is not the modus operandi. The child's mind itself
must walk through the process: again and again and again. That is how
the tracks are laid.

So, in our house, the older is more reflective and the younger is more
voracious. According to their disposition that is how they deal with
the inflow of information. Both, however, need the same foundation of
'attention.' Depending on their condition on any given day, there is
generally one or two narration sessions which I would describe as
demanding. As they listen to the reading (sometimes given by me, them
or audio), they are not allowed to pet the dogs, lie down, look out the
window, tap, fidget. As they give their narration, no 'um' or 'like' or
other verbiage is allowed. I slip in a quick reminder as needed. Clear
enunciation is required. They must tell me what the words tell that is,
they must use their own words to tell what they heard without adding
comment, interpretation or a word that carries a different meaning.
Sometimes I may ask for something less than a complete retelling. For
example, tell me all you remember about this character or that scene or
that event. Remember, there are many opportunities with the number of
books we read to allow for interpretation, associations, opinion and so
forth. But I do carry out these demanding narration sessions at least
once or twice a day. How long or short depends on them yet I am mindful
of their condition or capacity for it.

I feel History and Literature, in particular, lend themselves to this
kind of training in narration to build healthy 'intellectual habits.'
Accuracy, thoroughness, right and straight without distortion, are the
standard. For us, Bible study involves much more discussion. Over time,
I believe they will apply themselves in the same way to their reading
of the word. The skill, of course, is transferable.Also, the little one
(5yob) participates more. My approach, of course, is VERY different
with the little one. The older ones are 9 and 10. I hope if any mothers
of younger ones read this they don't think this is simply a way I'm
advocating. This is something the olders have arrived at over many
years (although we haven't always used AO).

Regards, Laurie Dixon

For
more about narration, especially as it relates to composition, see
notes on Language
Arts
Kelly G. created two narration cubes. There are two narration cubes on
one page. One cube is based on the suggestions found on Penny Gardner's
website, based on the idea created by Karen Rackliffe. The other cube
is based on topics that are in literature evaluation essays written in
high school and college. Download the single-page .pdf file.