PanOceania: State of the Faction, and what's next?

I wouldn't be so sure. Well, I mean they could be enhanced by a suit rather than by an Lhost.

If you take the servo-muscles of one of the 4-4 superheavies like the mowang and remove half the armour I could see that being represented by 6-2. Or a manned TAG style frame used for mobility instead of armour.
At this point we're probably talking about another army though, since that doesn't sound like PanO engineering to me.

Actually, some kind of "extra leg joint boots" could possibly work for Teutons. Although I'm not sure that's what they need: and with a number of MO players having success with them I'm not certain they even need an upgrade.

Click to expand...

"Unaugmented humans outside of a TAG can't go faster than 4-4" is a statement from the game developer, not Idle speculation.

"Unaugmented humans outside of a TAG can't go faster than 4-4" is a statement from the game developer, not Idle speculation.

It was a few years ago but still stands as far as I'm aware.

Click to expand...

Problem is, the setting seems to have cheap and easily available cybernetic and biological augmentation. In the wargame it is used basically only by Haqq for battle and Nomads for indulging fetishes, but there isn't a good reason that the likes of Yu "We Hate Individual Freedoms" Jing doesn't require its elite troops to undergo an augmentation process in order to squeeze out a little more combat ability.

PanO also has advanced Remote Presence technology, with PanO corporations behind most of ALEPH's nicer toys. There's a lot of ways to get around the "unaugmented humans" in Infinity. Helot HI when?

Warcor

I'd argue that it didn't affect its potential. Greater speed and Mimetism more than make up for it. I'd rather see lower BS and options, than higher BS... and that's it. We've been there faction-wise and most of us didn't like it.

Exactly. Here's my dream version:

Teutons: In Your Face Edition

MOV 6-2 | CC 23 | BS 13 | PH 13 | WIP 13 | ARM 3 | BTS 6 | W 2

Impetous, Berserk, Jungle, Religious, Kinematika L1, Dogged, Core and Duo (still able to link with Magisters), EXP CCW and Breaker Pistol for all

it would be just be unconceivable to see the best shooting faction getting the best CC specialist of the game too

Click to expand...

Yet it's not PanO that got the best shooting unit in the game (Kriza Borac). And it would be *one* CC specialist in the entire faction. Two if you count Magisters. There's nothing inconceivable about it.

Again, why would we want another short-mid range shooting specialist in a faction lousy with them? And why do you bring De Fernsen? He's not remotely in the same category as a CC-oriented Teuton would be. Expensive, non-disposable, mid-range (in a rare MO link with good long range options) and a specialist. For Teuton we are talking something you could just throw at the enemy and have it reliably come out on top. It would still be difficult to pull off, but it would be a niche. Right now they're the weaker Santiago or the overpriced Magister.
Domaru is a good comparison, I don't think anyone here would complain if Teutons were like Domaru. They're basically the same unit, but good. The difference in JSA and MO army composition notwithstanding.

And it would still hardly be the best CC specialist. Not with guys like McMurder or the entire Highlander army existing.

Warcor

"Best shooter" is difficult to define, there are too many variables. I'd argue that many of our TAGs can fight for the top spot. Same goes for a Swiss Guard, or GdA. It depends on what exactly we want to achieve.

Domaru would still be better than my Teutons thanks to higher PH, MA3 (and Stealth that goes with it), and Dual Wield. @SmaggTheSmug sums their problem perfectly - other knights are doing the same thing either better or cheaper.

But enough about Teutons and back to general PanO state. It's obvious that the season for giving us nice things is open, and interesting side effect is that we're getting to be really good at hacking. We're not able to throw as wide Repeater nets as Nomads can, but we got a very decent range of hackers in all categories. Particularly KHDs - each of our sectorial has access to one or two very good ones, and aside from MO our AVA for Fugazi drones (which also helps with keeping mass camo at bay) is pretty good. I'd even say that Acon and Varuna are two of the best sectorials in the game when it comes to hacking.

Warcor

Speaking of Remotes - that's another very strong aspect of our lists, especially given their current availability. Vanilla and all sectorials except Acontecimento have AVA 2 on Pathfinders and Sierras. SAA and NCA have AVA 3 Fugazi. Armbots are AVA 2 everywhere, except Varuna (only 1 Peacemaker). All in all it makes for a workable Repeater net, as well as plentiful cheap combat units. This is a serious advantage.

Speaking of Remotes - that's another very strong aspect of our lists, especially given their current availability. Vanilla and all sectorials except Acontecimento have AVA 2 on Pathfinders and Sierras. SAA and NCA have AVA 3 Fugazi. Armbots are AVA 2 everywhere, except Varuna (only 1 Peacemaker). All in all it makes for a workable Repeater net, as well as plentiful cheap combat units. This is a serious advantage.

Click to expand...

I struggle to include more than one remote, if any in my military orders list. They tend to end up being replaced with my midfield skirmishers like dart, tofoos, or black friars whenever I make a list, partially because I normally struggle to fit a normal hacking device in the list.

Warcor

Speaking of Remotes - that's another very strong aspect of our lists, especially given their current availability. Vanilla and all sectorials except Acontecimento have AVA 2 on Pathfinders and Sierras. SAA and NCA have AVA 3 Fugazi. Armbots are AVA 2 everywhere, except Varuna (only 1 Peacemaker). All in all it makes for a workable Repeater net, as well as plentiful cheap combat units. This is a serious advantage.

Warcor

I struggle to include more than one remote, if any in my military orders list. They tend to end up being replaced with my midfield skirmishers like dart, tofoos, or black friars whenever I make a list, partially because I normally struggle to fit a normal hacking device in the list.

Sent from my SM-G965F using Tapatalk

Click to expand...

Look at EVO, then. It meshes well both with Remotes and hackable units in general, and provides some other useful bonuses. @AdmiralJCJF's list is a nice example.

Midfield skirmishers are nice, but don't even come close to the efficiency of Pathfinder+Fugazi setup when it comes to anti-Camo operations. And Peacemakers buffed by Overclock (which carries over to Auxbots, too!) can be a very good speed bump.

Look at EVO, then. It meshes well both with Remotes and hackable units in general, and provides some other useful bonuses. @AdmiralJCJF's list is a nice example.

Midfield skirmishers are nice, but don't even come close to the efficiency of Pathfinder+Fugazi setup when it comes to anti-Camo operations. And Peacemakers buffed by Overclock (which carries over to Auxbots, too!) can be a very good speed bump.

Click to expand...

The problem is that a fugazi and a pathfinder is two of my ten orders in mo. And normally, I end up wanting more aggressive pieces that that. If I throw in a normal ahcker so i can buff those remotes, it means I only have seven left in a list that has to have a few reliable methods of punching. It's why everytime those units get pushed out in favour of other things. I quite agree that pathfinders are super helpful for uncloaking camo, but I also need a way to kill it once it's uncloaked, and that's where my midfield stuff comes in.

Warcor

The problem is that a fugazi and a pathfinder is two of my ten orders in mo. And normally, I end up wanting more aggressive pieces that that. If I throw in a normal ahcker so i can buff those remotes, it means I only have seven left in a list that has to have a few reliable methods of punching. It's why everytime those units get pushed out in favour of other things. I quite agree that pathfinders are super helpful for uncloaking camo, but I also need a way to kill it once it's uncloaked, and that's where my midfield stuff comes in.

Sent from my SM-G965F using Tapatalk

Click to expand...

It's hard to get a better specialist than the Pathfinder in PanOceania.

I find one is worth the "slot" even in most Limited Insertion lists.

But it's fair to say that I would never argue for a remote-heavy LI build. As my example above shows such builds will tend to lean order heavy.

It's hard to get a better specialist than the Pathfinder in PanOceania.

I find one is worth the "slot" even in most Limited Insertion lists.

But it's fair to say that I would never argue for a remote-heavy LI build. As my example above shows such builds will tend to lean order heavy.

Click to expand...

Oh absolutely, I now try to include a pathfinder in every list I do having learnt the hard way that I need it! The challenge is including genuinely offensive remotes, as it's so rare that I have space for the hacker needed to buff them as well.

Warcor

Oh absolutely, I now try to include a pathfinder in every list I do having learnt the hard way that I need it! The challenge is including genuinely offensive remotes, as it's so rare that I have space for the hacker needed to buff them as well.

I don't believe that mo is playable beyond 10 orders tbh. I have seen a lot of your lists, and just can't imagine how they play, as they just seem to lack a lot of the heavy firepower that it seems mo need to bring. Not saying you are wrong at all, just I genuinely don't understand how your lists would work!