Well, you can only blame having a lack of equipment, finds and manpower to fight the 'genuine' problem due to your illegial corporate crusade in
Iraq.
Im also happy you can admit that Iraq was an illegial act, purely in retaliation for a 'muslim' act on America.

No, I can blame it on a radical wing of our populace coupled with these idiots in congress who are trying to "stop the war" and thus stop the
killing by cutting funds to fight the war in Iraq. Nice,

send a bunch of american kids in there and then take all their # away and say, "wish ya
luck, dont get killed."

uhm....

yeah....

yeah thats messed up. I agree.
So hows about your president pulls them out?

F-Themselves?... how american of you to turn against your fellow americans like that.

I like the way you actually TYPED the word f**k too..... real decent.

If you would bother to actually read the post you would realise I am talking about americans in that post.

You know? the ones who think its the US that is the problem?

I know...

thats what im saying.
Your telling other Americans
'' If you dont believe in my ideoly that Iraq deserved to be carpet bombed, and we should take the gloves off and massacre anything that moves.. you
can go F-Yourself ''

yeah thats messed up. I agree.
So hows about your president pulls them out?

Well, hopefully someone will figure something out. Bush wont pull them out and that probably wont happen until a year or two into the next presidents
term at the earliest.

I dont think people understand that if bush backs down now and pulls everyone out, it would be far worse than seeing this war to the end (or at least
the end of his term). It would be political suicide for him and anyone associated with him to do that, no matter how unpopular the war is because if
in some bastardized way of things, this turns out to be a good move for the Iraqis, etc. Bush and his clan will be set in american politics for the
rest of their lives. Hell of a gamble, I know.

Iraq has already descended into a Civil war.
Yes, what will happen in Iraq is going to be terrible if you pull out.

Unfortunately, thats something your Leader, and your country is going to have to deal with.
You messed the country up, now thousands are dying...

Atleast be on the side who's trying to achnowledge it, instead of shoving it home that Iraq deserved the problems it has.

America made the mistake.
Iraq is going to bare the brunt of it.
You should be dedicating your economy to repairing iraq. Not building weapons to keep destroying it.

The world said Dont go into Iraq.
The people said dont go into Iraq
the UN said dont go into Iraq.. but you did.

and its NO ONES fault but your own, the level or carnage lays squarely at the feet of the American Leaders.

And now your trying to blame IRAQIS for the level of carnage thats happening?

Was it IRAQIS who sent their military into IRAQ to disband the army and government?
Was it IRAQIS who bombed and murdered people, forcing them into a life of pain and suffering with hatred towards the USA?

God dammit IT WASNT.

And the sooner you SICK TWISTED AMERICANS who believe carpet bombing and gloves of techniques are required should be sent to the front line WITH NO
WEAPON.

Have your body tortured and head cut off....

Why should these innocent Iraqis suffer, because you and your DAMN LEADERS felt they could make a quick buck

You make me sick, especially when you say its the American people who should get f'd because they dont follow your haneous, insane methods.

thats what im saying.
Your telling other Americans
'' If you dont believe in my ideoly that Iraq deserved to be carpet bombed, and we should take the gloves off and massacre anything that moves.. you
can go F-Yourself ''

am I getting it about right?

No, Im saying that if your going to whine about the war, then when we start getting attacked more and more, dont whine about it.

So long as Americans are being murdered in the Streets of Iraq,
So long as Iraqi's are being murdered in their homes...
So long as the American economy suffers..

And so long as Bush continue's to lie, and manipulate the media I think its fair that every single citizen of every country whine, winge, scream,
yell, rant, rave, jump up and down yelling at the top of their lungs.. because for some reason comepltely out of the realm of 'reality'

Apparently neither do you. There is no going back. Pulling out will inevitably get more Iraqis killed and possible leave a state ripe for a tolitarian
regime.

dont you get it? It isnt americans killing the damn Iraqis! Its the shia millitias gaining power in the new government and running the secret prisons
etc.

Its going to happen regardless.
Dont you see this>?
The void created when the US Removed the government/army enabled them to come into this space.
Wether we stay or leave, they are going to murder people, and they are going to effectivley become the ruling faction.
The government is as weak as eggshells.
when we leave no matter who leave in power.. they are going to be over run by shiites.
Unless we plan on staying forever..... convenient eh?

I am a part of this world, I am a human whom breathes the same air as you.

I will not butt out of this war just because you dont agree with me.

Your country has caused the deaths of hundereds of thousands of people.
The only option is to pull out... yes its going to be bloodshed.. but its going to be that ANYWAY!

If you leave Iraq atleast 'some' form of government will rise up.. like saddam did.. through force, through fear, and lead Iraqi's.

It matters GREATLY why we are there.

WE went there on a lie, illegially, to make a quick buck.
That means a LOT MORE now, than your flimsy excuse
'' we need to stay to protect the iraqis ''

Iraq is going to get very BAD.
So your going to have to accept, its at your feet.

At last somebody who has the b@lls to say it like it is! Will Bush & Co please leave Iraq, in fact, preferably leave this planet so that the rest of
us can carry on with our daily grind, bring back the poor buggers who were sent to Iraq and try to remember to keep that huge US nose out of everybody
else's affairs. Yes, as was rightly pointed out, Iraq will only get worse, whether the American troops are pulled out or not but what other option
is there? Leave the poor guys/girls there indefinitely while Bush and cronies make megabucks? I don't think so. America is already one of the most
hated nations in the world at the moment. Perhaps you need to start cleaning up your act by fixing what is broke in your own country and leaving the
rest of the world to sort out their own problems.

Originally posted by XphilesPhan
But who is going to fund these millitias? Im sure that guarding bus stops, etc. isnt a paying job.

From what I gather most are self funded; you provide and maintain your own gear. Call me idealistic but I don't think they are going to be too picky
about doing something like guarding school children, at least if they have any heart at all. I don't know how others states work but here in VA if
the Virginia Defense Force is called up to active duty by the state they receive standard Department of Defense pay, so if they do it in an official
role for the state then it could be paid for, however if they donate their time as a good will gesture then its a freebie unless people help them out
by providing food, water, etc.

I've read up a lot on our government's (U.S.) past criminal actions, the 9-11 conspiracies, including the BBC news reporter who announced that WTC
building 7 had fallen while it was standing firmly behind her and did not fall until 23 minutes after the report was made, the new F.B.I. findings in
the Tim McVeigh/OK City bombing, Columbine, Bin Laden, The U.S.A. Patriot Act, the Insurrection Act, Haliburton detainment camps, the London subway
and bus bombings and resulting analysis, and everything that is remotely related to what is going on right now.

It's clear to me that these conveniently timed "releases of information" are not an attempt to inform the public, because informing the public has
never been this, or any other government's modus operandi - unless it suits the government in question. This is a fact as far as I'm concerned.

Every move our government makes goes through a process of careful evaluation and planning before action is taken.

What should be looked at more closely, instead of what is being released, is what else is going on that our government would have a vested interest in
that would prompt this release of information now.

It may not be immediately apparent, but the government stands to gain and this is the reason they utilize their lap dogs in the media.

Every time information like this is released that support grows for anti-terror legislation, and the government in general. We are basically lap dogs
who simply "react" to the carefully planned public relations releases.

I've stopped watching the news; and reports such as these carry no weight with me. If you want real news I'm assuming you know where to find it,
because you're on ATS. It's a good start.

I am extrapolating from what I know that the isolated terrorist acts perpetrated inside the U.S., and at U.S. installations around the world have been
orchestrated by the United States in collusion with "other" parties. These "other" parties can include scapegoats such as Lee Harvey Oswald and
Tim McVeigh.

Someone even suggested that Al Qaeda was a terrorist group manufaactured by the U.S. government(?). I don't know if this is true, but if it was how
incredulous would you be today, as more and more lies bubble to the surface?

I am not including links to information to back this up, but there is plenty out there. Because I don't want to include supportive links I will offer
a disclaimer that all of this is speculation.

But if you're up on what's really going on, I think you know I'm not going too far out on a limb to suggest this...

However it may be done, it is something that is NOT in the mainstream media, and it is something that should be addressed. Do you know how easy it is
and how unsafe our children are from leaving their homes to getting to school? How many abductions occur? These are the same type of actions that
allowed 9/11 to happen that most of you are spewing. Warhawking..fear mongering...incite panic.

If you read an article in 2000 that stated terrorists were going to hijack planes and strike targets in the US, you would have laughed, and most state
PNAC just wants to go to war. THen on September 11th, our biggest fear was brought to life.

Are we to stand by and allow something to again happen or investigate every little thread of evidence that may lead to a true threat. Or is that what
the Left wants to destroy the GOP? Sometimes I wonder...

Hi all. I am a truck / diesel mechanic in Minneapolis. I work out of a building that also has a trucking company based from there, owned by a couple
of brothers who happen to also be from the Mid-East. Very nice guys, and all their employees are either Somolian, or from the Middle East and pretty
cool too.

I got on the subject of terrorizm with a few of them, and a couple of our reguler customers, who are all worried (and have heard misc chatter) that
there will soon be terror attacks involving semi-tractors & trailers. So the theory of using school buses wouldn't be all that our of line. But if
a semi-trailer was used instead, think of what could happen.

A 53ft loaded trailer with some sort of bomb in it would do alot of damage in an underground delivery terminal (such as a few we have in the Twin
Cities). That would be a great way to shut down the transportation industry, and create havoc on our economy, since over 75% of all goods are
transported via truck / trailer.

Note that I am just stating a small portion of a conversation, and I have no facts to back it up. Also, I am not doing fear-mongoring (sp?). Just
telling what the word is on the streets.

As for school buses, I find it hard that terrorists would use them filled with children and use it in a wave of attacks. My 2c worth.

You're absolutely right. That would be an easy way to simply inflict a lot of damage with the least amount of effort.

This seems to be the modus operandi of middle-eastern terrorists. They pack as many explosives around them, or their vehicles that they can, and then
detonate it in shopping malls, movie theatres, markets, etc.

This is the primitive, terrorist sort of stuff we're used to.

Doesn't it seem odd that instead of loading up with explosives and hitting a populated area they took a much more involved, complex, labor-intensive,
risky, and extremely sophisticated approach of having members train IN THE UNITED STATES to be pilots (of small aircraft mind you) over several
months, and then to attempt to hijack multiple large, commercial airliners and fly them into several specific targets?

Were they also confident that they wouldn't be shot down by our advanced air force before they traveled the distances to reach their targets?

On a side note, has anyone ever investigated the Pennsylvania wreckage? It was suggested that there was no debris, and that the crash site wasn't
indicative of a downed full-size jumbo jet. Just curious...

These lumbering commercial jets, which are monitored with a sophistication I imagine is pretty advanced, moved off of their course and headed toward
Washington, DC, without so much as a "please stay on course" from anyone?

There was an incident a while ago at the White House wherein the president, whom I presume to be Bush, Jr., was evacuated from the White House because
of something on radar. The news reports said it ended up being a cloud, and whether it was or not, was probably the source of some amusement, but
pointed to how sophisticated our monitoring abilities are in that area.

However, I think prior to that there was an episode where a small, possibly single-engine aircraft entered DC airspace and may have even landed. I
think I read that the pilot just went off course. So here you have a low-flying individual fly in, and land below restricted air space.

From this security lesson, and the alarm triggered by the cloud, you would think that there was a system in place to spot a commercial jet airliner.
Maybe not?

It just seems like the long way around for a segment of middle-eastern criminal society who are used to just sending in explosives.

They could make bombs that would do twice the damage at several locations at once with little risk of missing their target, and without the risk of
being caught at any point over the several months while they were supposedly working for this group, and as a result having to abandon the whole
plot.

The combination of questions about 9-11, and the character of these groups from their past behavior doesn't, to me, suggest that this middle-eastern
terrorist group suddenly made the leap into the 21st century.

They're still blowing up shopping malls over there, but we're sitting here just like we were prior to 9-11, with nothing to worry about until our
government decides it's time for another attack. The next one though, ain't gonna be pretty. Problem, reaction, solution. So what's next...?

Ersdad, The point is that America has a very long list of people who arent to happy about its Foreign Policy so it may or may not be open to a range
of terrorist attacks.

The mere fact that the FBI anounced that terrorists would seek Licences to drive School Buses is pure fantasy. Terrorists are not a group of knuckle
dragging morons, they are highly, trained, dedicated, inteligent and well financed.

The US has a myriad of possible targets and to be honest is about as secure as Swiss cheese. Which again begs the question where are these much
vaunted Terrorists, where is all their terrorising.

The fact of the matter is that the US wish's to wage war to further its interests, this policy is embraced in the PNAC document. If you are engaged
in War and Conquest you have to have a reason for it, the villain of the plot etc.

These excuses are usually trotted out as they have been done for millenia which are, those religeous fanatics want to wipe us all out, they have
resources we need, and the old favourite they are lower humans than us and need to be civilised.

Yes believe or not the above are embraced in all wars, and the mugs fall for it hook line and sinker every time, and while the rich and politicians
are nice and safe and sat on their money they send us the cannon fodder to die for them.

But ask yourself this question, during the Irish troubles the Uk security services knew about every Terrorist, their whole families the lot. They
could of rounded them all up in one go or took them out but they did not.

The same could be said for the Mafia in the US, but it was the same there why?

Ask yourself for what possible reason were these organisations allowed to go about their murderous business.

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