How many states, besides Oklahoma, ban Islamic law?

The Oklahoma legislature passed a bill Monday to prevent the use of religious or foreign law in state courts. Between 2010 and 2012, lawmakers in 32 states introduced similar bills, and six states – Oklahoma, Arizona, Kansas, Louisiana, South Dakota and Tennessee – enacted such bills into law.

Oklahoma’s earlier law, which explicitly banned sharia (Islamic law), was struck down in federal court in 2012. A new interactive map by the Pew Research Center allows you to click on a state to read about the legislation proposed or enacted there in recent years to ban the consideration of foreign or religious law in state court decisions.

The Pew Research has released an additional resource that focuses more broadly on religious law, courts and mediation in the United States. This new report examines how some of the country’s major Christian traditions and other religions, including Islam, Judaism, Buddhism and Hinduism – 15 groups in total – decide internal matters and apply their religious laws.

Some of the legal codes – Islamic sharia and Jewish halakhah, for example – are quite comprehensive, covering many aspects of individual, family and community life, from marriage and divorce to death and inheritance. Other religious legal traditions, including those of many Protestant denominations, focus largely on internal church governance, including the expulsion of members and disciplining of wayward clergy.

Each entry includes links to official documents and other resources to help readers who want to delve more deeply into a particular religious group’s laws or judicial system.

How dare they, really! How do they outlaw something that is guaranteed by the Constitution!!!??!?!

//Kate Bregman via Facebook 9 April 2013 at 6:06 pm

How dare they, really! How do they outlaw something that is guaranteed by the Constitution!!!??!?!

//Kate Bregman via Facebook 9 April 2013 at 6:06 pm

to be fair, I wouldnt expect any religious law to hold up in a state court if it was in conflict with the state laws. Am I misunderstanding the article?

//Tanzi Thornton via Facebook 9 April 2013 at 6:06 pm

to be fair, I wouldnt expect any religious law to hold up in a state court if it was in conflict with the state laws. Am I misunderstanding the article?

//Tanzi Thornton via Facebook 9 April 2013 at 6:06 pm

To be objective, the article says that the religious laws do not hold up in court. One could argue that the old Morman law allowing polygamy should be legal based on freedom of religion. Or perhaps there is a religious law allowing mercy killings, stonings, and such. Those are considered murder by the state regardless. Or perhaps I misunderstood the article

//Tanzi Thornton via Facebook 9 April 2013 at 6:09 pm

To be objective, the article says that the religious laws do not hold up in court. One could argue that the old Morman law allowing polygamy should be legal based on freedom of religion. Or perhaps there is a religious law allowing mercy killings, stonings, and such. Those are considered murder by the state regardless. Or perhaps I misunderstood the article

//Tanzi Thornton via Facebook 9 April 2013 at 6:09 pm

To be honest, I didn’t read the article, just the thumbnail, & I rushed to the conclusion that they were banning Islam.

//Kate Bregman via Facebook 9 April 2013 at 6:12 pm

To be honest, I didn’t read the article, just the thumbnail, & I rushed to the conclusion that they were banning Islam.

//Kate Bregman via Facebook 9 April 2013 at 6:12 pm

That still might be a slightly valid assumption, though, as I would imagine they wouldn’t ban Jewish law, which calls for stoning to death those who don’t observe the Sabbath.

//Kate Bregman via Facebook 9 April 2013 at 6:15 pm

That still might be a slightly valid assumption, though, as I would imagine they wouldn’t ban Jewish law, which calls for stoning to death those who don’t observe the Sabbath.

//Kate Bregman via Facebook 9 April 2013 at 6:15 pm

All states are forbidden from recognizing any law beyond those recognized by the U.S. Constitution. OK just likes to waste its time beating a dead horse. Where are the jobs OK?

//Rodney B. Proffitt via Facebook 9 April 2013 at 6:18 pm

All states are forbidden from recognizing any law beyond those recognized by the U.S. Constitution. OK just likes to waste its time beating a dead horse. Where are the jobs OK?

//Rodney B. Proffitt via Facebook 9 April 2013 at 6:18 pm

I have a very serious question to ask and let me preface this by saying my credentials as an interfaith activist working almost entirely with Muslims for years now are rock solid.

Polygamy is alive and well in the Black American Muslim community. I was made aware of this by Black American Muslims directly. Many of them eschew getting marriage licences because they do not believe the state should be involved in marriages and as well imams at many Black American mosques are not requiring them. Practicing polygamy is also the reason for not getting marriage licenses. I did research and this is RAMPANT in that community. Here is the link to one “imam” with HIS two wives, Philadelphia. The gentleman I WAS friends with on Facebook is very well known as a founder of a mosque in St. Louis which he told me also performs polygamous marriages. He became very angry with me when I quoted an Afghan friend of mine who is the wife of an imam in the DC area who said Muslims are to follow the laws of the land they live in.

These folks aren’t doing that, and I personally find a huge problem with this. They are getting around it because technically they are not LEGALLY married at all without marriage licenses, but they sure are practicing Islamic polygamy right here in the US.

Technically many of them are in a sense banning Islam. Basically marriages, divorces, child custody arrangements, etc from other countries will not be honored. Family law allows religious beliefs to be considered as part of the judge’s ruling. But these states are forbidding that. Some religions (like Islam) often favor the mother especially when the child is young. However, these courts are refusing to recognize this. The fact is, if it is related to family law and is not effecting other people, the court really has no reason to ban it.

//Jennifer Haynes Khedr via Facebook 9 April 2013 at 6:35 pm

Technically many of them are in a sense banning Islam. Basically marriages, divorces, child custody arrangements, etc from other countries will not be honored. Family law allows religious beliefs to be considered as part of the judge’s ruling. But these states are forbidding that. Some religions (like Islam) often favor the mother especially when the child is young. However, these courts are refusing to recognize this. The fact is, if it is related to family law and is not effecting other people, the court really has no reason to ban it.

//Jennifer Haynes Khedr via Facebook 9 April 2013 at 6:35 pm

No law would stand up. Fact is, family law allows religious laws to be considered and these laws in no way actually are the offical deciding factor of a judge, nor do the effect others. However, these laws do not contridict any state laws. This was a cheap shot at literally trying to ban many aspects of Islam. Bad thing is, it also effects others such as Jews and even Christians.

//Jennifer Haynes Khedr via Facebook 9 April 2013 at 6:38 pm

No law would stand up. Fact is, family law allows religious laws to be considered and these laws in no way actually are the offical deciding factor of a judge, nor do the effect others. However, these laws do not contridict any state laws. This was a cheap shot at literally trying to ban many aspects of Islam. Bad thing is, it also effects others such as Jews and even Christians.

//Jennifer Haynes Khedr via Facebook 9 April 2013 at 6:38 pm

As long as they are not legally married, the government does not recognize it as a marriage, so you cannot actually say it is being practiced because the law requires the marriage to be legally documented in order to count. This is also how Mormons also get away with it, so it isn’t really fair to refer to it as “Islamic” polygamy since the practice existed long before Islam and is practiced by many other religions and cultures.

//Jennifer Haynes Khedr via Facebook 9 April 2013 at 6:42 pm

As long as they are not legally married, the government does not recognize it as a marriage, so you cannot actually say it is being practiced because the law requires the marriage to be legally documented in order to count. This is also how Mormons also get away with it, so it isn’t really fair to refer to it as “Islamic” polygamy since the practice existed long before Islam and is practiced by many other religions and cultures.

//Jennifer Haynes Khedr via Facebook 9 April 2013 at 6:42 pm

Why is it unfair to call it “Islamic” polygamy. That is exactly what it is, just like Mormon polygamy is Mormon polygamy. I get it, it’s ok as long as they aren’t legally married. Loop hole, claiming Allah’s law is higher than our marriage laws here. EXACTLY the sort of thing that feeds Islamophobia.

//Robin McLaren via Facebook 9 April 2013 at 6:48 pm

Why is it unfair to call it “Islamic” polygamy. That is exactly what it is, just like Mormon polygamy is Mormon polygamy. I get it, it’s ok as long as they aren’t legally married. Loop hole, claiming Allah’s law is higher than our marriage laws here. EXACTLY the sort of thing that feeds Islamophobia.

//Robin McLaren via Facebook 9 April 2013 at 6:48 pm

To add why do you think these folks calling themselves Muslims are practicing polygamy? Because it is allowed in Islam. But guess what, it is not allowed in the United States and these folks are flaunting our laws by saying Allah’s laws are higher. This is NOT a good thing for the Muslim community to be condoning. Furthermore it is a tenant of Islam to follow the laws of the land, not try to get through some loophole.

//Robin McLaren via Facebook 9 April 2013 at 6:55 pm

To add why do you think these folks calling themselves Muslims are practicing polygamy? Because it is allowed in Islam. But guess what, it is not allowed in the United States and these folks are flaunting our laws by saying Allah’s laws are higher. This is NOT a good thing for the Muslim community to be condoning. Furthermore it is a tenant of Islam to follow the laws of the land, not try to get through some loophole.

//Robin McLaren via Facebook 9 April 2013 at 6:55 pm

I have another question. Why is it perfectly legal for a man to have a million mistresses, which he may or may not provide for, but its wrong for a many to have more than one wife which he MUST provide for? My only problem with polygamy in America, is that it is unregulated, and many men don’t provide for the women. The women are OK with, what I call, the MISTRESS MENTALITY. As long as he sleeps with her occasionally, they don’t care how many women he has. Its NOT polygamy by Islamic standards in the least bit. Its western frolicking with a new name.

//Familja Jon via Facebook 9 April 2013 at 7:25 pm

I have another question. Why is it perfectly legal for a man to have a million mistresses, which he may or may not provide for, but its wrong for a many to have more than one wife which he MUST provide for? My only problem with polygamy in America, is that it is unregulated, and many men don’t provide for the women. The women are OK with, what I call, the MISTRESS MENTALITY. As long as he sleeps with her occasionally, they don’t care how many women he has. Its NOT polygamy by Islamic standards in the least bit. Its western frolicking with a new name.

//Familja Jon via Facebook 9 April 2013 at 7:25 pm

I don’t care because without the marriage license, there is NO LEGAL marriage. Thus there is NO violating the law of the land. Its NO different than men non-Muslim men having many girlfriends. When we try them for that, then we can try people for marriages that are NOT legal by the law of the land.

//Familja Jon via Facebook 9 April 2013 at 7:28 pm

I don’t care because without the marriage license, there is NO LEGAL marriage. Thus there is NO violating the law of the land. Its NO different than men non-Muslim men having many girlfriends. When we try them for that, then we can try people for marriages that are NOT legal by the law of the land.

//Familja Jon via Facebook 9 April 2013 at 7:28 pm

WHO SAID IT IS OK FOR A MAN TO HAVE A MILLION MISTRESSES? That is an obfiscatory statement,, illogical as you can get! IMAMS are issuing marriage Sharia marriage licences for this POLYGAMY that is being practiced. You think this is ok?

//Robin McLaren via Facebook 9 April 2013 at 7:29 pm

WHO SAID IT IS OK FOR A MAN TO HAVE A MILLION MISTRESSES? That is an obfiscatory statement,, illogical as you can get! IMAMS are issuing marriage Sharia marriage licences for this POLYGAMY that is being practiced. You think this is ok?

//Robin McLaren via Facebook 9 April 2013 at 7:29 pm

OKAYSIES, are you residing in the States?

//Robin McLaren via Facebook 9 April 2013 at 7:34 pm

OKAYSIES, are you residing in the States?

//Robin McLaren via Facebook 9 April 2013 at 7:34 pm

By the LAW it is LEGAL for a man, or woman for that matter, to sleep with as many people as he/she may wish. The thing is there is NO MARRIAGE LICENSE, thus NO MARRIAGE by the law! So, BY THE LAW, its no different than a man who is sleeping with more than one woman! Got it?

//Familja Jon via Facebook 9 April 2013 at 7:36 pm

By the LAW it is LEGAL for a man, or woman for that matter, to sleep with as many people as he/she may wish. The thing is there is NO MARRIAGE LICENSE, thus NO MARRIAGE by the law! So, BY THE LAW, its no different than a man who is sleeping with more than one woman! Got it?

//Familja Jon via Facebook 9 April 2013 at 7:36 pm

Oh yes I get it very well. Muslim polygamy with imam issued sharia “marriage” licences ok by you. I get it loud and clear. And guess what, there are plenty of Muslim Americans who would not agree with you at all!

//Robin McLaren via Facebook 9 April 2013 at 7:38 pm

Oh yes I get it very well. Muslim polygamy with imam issued sharia “marriage” licences ok by you. I get it loud and clear. And guess what, there are plenty of Muslim Americans who would not agree with you at all!

//Robin McLaren via Facebook 9 April 2013 at 7:38 pm

Yes, I live in the states. The point is anybody can play house and call it what they like. It doesn’t mean the law will recognize it. There isn’t much by the law that can be done.

//Familja Jon via Facebook 9 April 2013 at 7:39 pm

Yes, I live in the states. The point is anybody can play house and call it what they like. It doesn’t mean the law will recognize it. There isn’t much by the law that can be done.

//Familja Jon via Facebook 9 April 2013 at 7:39 pm

There certainly is something that can be done by Muslim Americans to condemn it because it does not reflect well on the Muslim American community for this to be gong on unchallenged by those who DO abide by the law and don’t engage in this behavior.

//Robin McLaren via Facebook 9 April 2013 at 7:42 pm

There certainly is something that can be done by Muslim Americans to condemn it because it does not reflect well on the Muslim American community for this to be gong on unchallenged by those who DO abide by the law and don’t engage in this behavior.

//Robin McLaren via Facebook 9 April 2013 at 7:42 pm

What are you asking to be condemned? Just going to the mosque and having a ceremony with NO LEGAL binding? If they do it without the mosque is it any different, because MANY do it that way? I don’t agree with many aspects of it because it includes tons of corruption and oppression which Islam prohibits, but that is an entire other conversation. The reality is that many people are in OPEN marriages and relationships. The only difference is that Muslims, Mormons and other religious sects label the people they have sex with as spouses, instead of partners. I find it difficult to see how there is a huge difference besides the labels. My only problem would be if the women, children, or even men, were being mistreated, and uncared for. If you don’t have the money to support a family, whatever the heck label you put on it, do NOT start one, and certainly don’t get more than one if you have a family that fell on hard times, as is common in this horrid economy. Legally, there isn’t much to be done.

//Familja Jon via Facebook 9 April 2013 at 7:51 pm

What are you asking to be condemned? Just going to the mosque and having a ceremony with NO LEGAL binding? If they do it without the mosque is it any different, because MANY do it that way? I don’t agree with many aspects of it because it includes tons of corruption and oppression which Islam prohibits, but that is an entire other conversation. The reality is that many people are in OPEN marriages and relationships. The only difference is that Muslims, Mormons and other religious sects label the people they have sex with as spouses, instead of partners. I find it difficult to see how there is a huge difference besides the labels. My only problem would be if the women, children, or even men, were being mistreated, and uncared for. If you don’t have the money to support a family, whatever the heck label you put on it, do NOT start one, and certainly don’t get more than one if you have a family that fell on hard times, as is common in this horrid economy. Legally, there isn’t much to be done.

//Familja Jon via Facebook 9 April 2013 at 7:51 pm

Seriously? “The only difference is that Muslims, Mormons and other religious sects label the people they have sex with as spouses, instead of partners.”

There is NO “labeling”, marriage is a commitment that involves a whole lot more than sex. If it was only “labeling” then no marriage would take place! What the hell kind of game and disassociation from what marriage is are you and these polygamists playing?

//Robin McLaren via Facebook 9 April 2013 at 7:54 pm

Seriously? “The only difference is that Muslims, Mormons and other religious sects label the people they have sex with as spouses, instead of partners.”

There is NO “labeling”, marriage is a commitment that involves a whole lot more than sex. If it was only “labeling” then no marriage would take place! What the hell kind of game and disassociation from what marriage is are you and these polygamists playing?

//Robin McLaren via Facebook 9 April 2013 at 7:54 pm

lady No one cares in this nonsense There are bigger problems between Muslims and Americans last week your army killed 11 children in Afghanistan !!

Right. Another obfuscation because nothing can be talked about except that subject. Got that one covered on my end also. I can discuss more than one topic at a time and the comments here are the stuff Pamela Gellar and cohorts would love. Fine upstanding folks who take marriage seriously. Vile, absolutely VILE.

//Robin McLaren via Facebook 9 April 2013 at 7:59 pm

Right. Another obfuscation because nothing can be talked about except that subject. Got that one covered on my end also. I can discuss more than one topic at a time and the comments here are the stuff Pamela Gellar and cohorts would love. Fine upstanding folks who take marriage seriously. Vile, absolutely VILE.

//Robin McLaren via Facebook 9 April 2013 at 7:59 pm

@Robin, I understand your perspective. I agree that Muslims living in the US have to follow the laws of the land. As a Muslim myself, we are considered to be living in this country under a covenant. We must, therefore, comply with the laws of their country of residence without, at the same time, disobeying Islamic Law. Islamic law is simply there to guide individuals in all matters of their daily lives. Islamic law is important to Muslims, but at the same time, they should not disobey any of the U.S. laws. But like stated, Muslims are not the only ones practicing polygamy. Others are also. They may even believe that their religious laws are important over any other laws, but may not directly say it. But keep in mind this is not the only loophole people are creating in the U.S. You may wonder why it’s allowed in Islam?? Statistics show that the number of women is greater than the number of men; if each man were to marry just one woman, this would mean that some women would be left without a husband, which would have a harmful effect on her and on society:

The harmful effect is that she would never find a husband to take care of her interests, to give her a place to live, to spend on her, to protect her from doing unlawful actions, and to give her children to bring her joy. Also, men fight in battles and more men may die than women. This is one of the things that raise the percentage of husbandless women, and a solution to this problem is plural marriage. But there are conditions that must be met first. Also, polygamy existed before Islam. Prophets like Abraham, Solomon, and David had more than one wife. Polygamy is only permitted when one is able to be fair and just and have the means to spend on each wife. Men are responsible and will be accountable for their actions.

//Hana Ch via Facebook 9 April 2013 at 8:00 pm

@Robin, I understand your perspective. I agree that Muslims living in the US have to follow the laws of the land. As a Muslim myself, we are considered to be living in this country under a covenant. We must, therefore, comply with the laws of their country of residence without, at the same time, disobeying Islamic Law. Islamic law is simply there to guide individuals in all matters of their daily lives. Islamic law is important to Muslims, but at the same time, they should not disobey any of the U.S. laws. But like stated, Muslims are not the only ones practicing polygamy. Others are also. They may even believe that their religious laws are important over any other laws, but may not directly say it. But keep in mind this is not the only loophole people are creating in the U.S. You may wonder why it’s allowed in Islam?? Statistics show that the number of women is greater than the number of men; if each man were to marry just one woman, this would mean that some women would be left without a husband, which would have a harmful effect on her and on society:

The harmful effect is that she would never find a husband to take care of her interests, to give her a place to live, to spend on her, to protect her from doing unlawful actions, and to give her children to bring her joy. Also, men fight in battles and more men may die than women. This is one of the things that raise the percentage of husbandless women, and a solution to this problem is plural marriage. But there are conditions that must be met first. Also, polygamy existed before Islam. Prophets like Abraham, Solomon, and David had more than one wife. Polygamy is only permitted when one is able to be fair and just and have the means to spend on each wife. Men are responsible and will be accountable for their actions.

//Hana Ch via Facebook 9 April 2013 at 8:00 pm

Sorry for writing a lot, there was just lots to say because this is an important topic. Have a good day! 🙂

//Hana Ch via Facebook 9 April 2013 at 8:01 pm

Sorry for writing a lot, there was just lots to say because this is an important topic. Have a good day! 🙂

//Hana Ch via Facebook 9 April 2013 at 8:01 pm

Robin, to me it doesn’t seem like you care so much about the legalities of it, as you do of the fact that Islam permits a many to marry up to 4 wives, provided he can be just to all. Saying polygamy is a vile view on marriage is no different than the extreme right saying marriage is only between man & woman, so gays shouldn’t marry. When you can site some LEGAL proof that its wrong, then I’ll see it as an issue. Until then, by the law, these couples are no different than anyone else in America who plays house without a marriage license.

//Familja Jon via Facebook 9 April 2013 at 8:08 pm

Robin, to me it doesn’t seem like you care so much about the legalities of it, as you do of the fact that Islam permits a many to marry up to 4 wives, provided he can be just to all. Saying polygamy is a vile view on marriage is no different than the extreme right saying marriage is only between man & woman, so gays shouldn’t marry. When you can site some LEGAL proof that its wrong, then I’ll see it as an issue. Until then, by the law, these couples are no different than anyone else in America who plays house without a marriage license.

//Familja Jon via Facebook 9 April 2013 at 8:08 pm

No need to lecture me on this. My first husband who I was AMICABLY divorced from and remained on most loving terms until the day he died in our daughter’s arms was Muslim. I lived in the homes of both my real mother in law and the second wife of my father in law as well.

That was Saudi Arabia.

This is the United States.

Warren Jeffs and other polygamist Mormons is a very POOR excuse to bring up for Muslims practicing polygamy here. I think you might want to change that point in any argument you make to justify Muslims practicing polygamy here under the radar with their own “law”

//Robin McLaren via Facebook 9 April 2013 at 8:08 pm

No need to lecture me on this. My first husband who I was AMICABLY divorced from and remained on most loving terms until the day he died in our daughter’s arms was Muslim. I lived in the homes of both my real mother in law and the second wife of my father in law as well.

That was Saudi Arabia.

This is the United States.

Warren Jeffs and other polygamist Mormons is a very POOR excuse to bring up for Muslims practicing polygamy here. I think you might want to change that point in any argument you make to justify Muslims practicing polygamy here under the radar with their own “law”

//Robin McLaren via Facebook 9 April 2013 at 8:08 pm

Mormons do this a lot also. If there is no marrage that is recognized by the state then they are just living together. No law against that.

//Don M. Mee via Facebook 9 April 2013 at 8:10 pm

Mormons do this a lot also. If there is no marrage that is recognized by the state then they are just living together. No law against that.

//Don M. Mee via Facebook 9 April 2013 at 8:10 pm

That’s horrifying!

//Kate Bregman via Facebook 9 April 2013 at 8:20 pm

That’s horrifying!

//Kate Bregman via Facebook 9 April 2013 at 8:20 pm

Isn’t that against the First Amendment to the US Constitution?!!

//Tom Barto via Facebook 9 April 2013 at 8:24 pm

Isn’t that against the First Amendment to the US Constitution?!!

//Tom Barto via Facebook 9 April 2013 at 8:24 pm

Also I want to add something to your subject, I do not live in America, but you know that Islam says when you live in a non-Islamic society u must follow their laws Surprise right lol
Do you know something else I live in Saudi Arabia is very much more devout Muslim state in the world and I am a very social person I know hundreds of people will you believe me if I tell you not one of them married more than one !!
Polygamy came in the days of the first Islamic wars where lack of men was a painful reality And continued after this and for information you may not marry more than four and they must act fairly and treat them with kindness Now tell me who can do this loool Some men marry more than one 2 maybe then stop after is something not likable, but in the end is a law Do you want to tell me all the laws in the Bible and the U.S. Constitution You are OK with >> impossible right !!

Also I want to add something to your subject, I do not live in America, but you know that Islam says when you live in a non-Islamic society u must follow their laws Surprise right lol
Do you know something else I live in Saudi Arabia is very much more devout Muslim state in the world and I am a very social person I know hundreds of people will you believe me if I tell you not one of them married more than one !!
Polygamy came in the days of the first Islamic wars where lack of men was a painful reality And continued after this and for information you may not marry more than four and they must act fairly and treat them with kindness Now tell me who can do this loool Some men marry more than one 2 maybe then stop after is something not likable, but in the end is a law Do you want to tell me all the laws in the Bible and the U.S. Constitution You are OK with >> impossible right !!

Wrong assessment. I know full well Islam has polygamy and think that is AOK in Islamic countries. I do NOT think it is ok to be trying to practice this here in the States because 1. Most Muslim Americans don’t do this >> because they follow our laws here 2. Doing this and condoning it will only bring TROUBLE upon the Muslim American community. If ya’ll are ok with that I guess I have nothing to say. Don’t say you weren’t advised.

//Robin McLaren via Facebook 9 April 2013 at 8:29 pm

Wrong assessment. I know full well Islam has polygamy and think that is AOK in Islamic countries. I do NOT think it is ok to be trying to practice this here in the States because 1. Most Muslim Americans don’t do this >> because they follow our laws here 2. Doing this and condoning it will only bring TROUBLE upon the Muslim American community. If ya’ll are ok with that I guess I have nothing to say. Don’t say you weren’t advised.

//Robin McLaren via Facebook 9 April 2013 at 8:29 pm

Ban all religious laws, they are seperated from the legal laws of our land, the books of all faiths don’t belong in our court rooms.

//Nona Goldstein via Facebook 9 April 2013 at 8:31 pm

Ban all religious laws, they are seperated from the legal laws of our land, the books of all faiths don’t belong in our court rooms.

//Nona Goldstein via Facebook 9 April 2013 at 8:31 pm

They are NOT just “living together” because Islam does not allow that therefor these polygamous marriages are being performed sliding neatly through a loophole of them not technically being illegal because they aren’t legal in the first place.

Again I warn, if you think this reflects well on the Muslim American community here you have rocks for brains

//Robin McLaren via Facebook 9 April 2013 at 8:31 pm

They are NOT just “living together” because Islam does not allow that therefor these polygamous marriages are being performed sliding neatly through a loophole of them not technically being illegal because they aren’t legal in the first place.

Again I warn, if you think this reflects well on the Muslim American community here you have rocks for brains

//Robin McLaren via Facebook 9 April 2013 at 8:31 pm

Way to show tolerance, by calling people vile and saying they have rocks for brains because people disagree with you about an issue that doesn’t necessarily affect you one way or the other? What business is it of any of ours what someone does in their home & bedroom?

//Familja Jon via Facebook 9 April 2013 at 8:36 pm

Way to show tolerance, by calling people vile and saying they have rocks for brains because people disagree with you about an issue that doesn’t necessarily affect you one way or the other? What business is it of any of ours what someone does in their home & bedroom?

//Familja Jon via Facebook 9 April 2013 at 8:36 pm

You have that one wrong too! My entire family who lives here INCLUDING my own daughter who is married to a Muslim herself as she is Muslim get affected by this sort of crap.

//Robin McLaren via Facebook 9 April 2013 at 8:39 pm

You have that one wrong too! My entire family who lives here INCLUDING my own daughter who is married to a Muslim herself as she is Muslim get affected by this sort of crap.

//Robin McLaren via Facebook 9 April 2013 at 8:39 pm

Here you go…………. this was not the first time I engaged on this subject

Naeem Abdullah (the Philadelphia “imam” with two wives himself)
WARNING TO ALL IMAMS, AMIRS AND SHAYKHS: Beware of the “MASJID HOPPER”! The “MASJID HOPPER” attends various masjids – which is not a problem in and of itself. But the “MASJID HOPPER” which I speak of will get married at one masjid, get counseling at another masjid, and yet get divorced in another masjid! By using the technique of “MASJID HOPPING”, they are able to circumvent Allah’s law. A woman can get married while she is still married to her previous husband, a wife beater can get married under the guise of being ‘the good brother’, carriers of diseases can move freely among us transmitting viruses, sisters can have co-husbands, etc…

ADVICE: EVEN IF YOU DON’T GET ALONG WITH ANOTHER LEADER, COMMUNICATE WITH HIM WHEN SOMEONE FROM HIS COMMUNITY COMES TO YOU FOR MARRIAGE, COUNSELING OR DIVORCE!!!

Robin McLaren Of course all of this is going on outside the legal system which would prevent this sort of thing completely because you can’t get married to someone else if you are already married. Far be it from me to point this out to folks who disavow the legal system in the place in which they live.

^^^^ Who here thinks this is OK? You act outside the law here and no one is protected by the law. Furthermore you can’t get insurance benefits through this sort of “marriage”.

//Robin McLaren via Facebook 9 April 2013 at 8:42 pm

Here you go…………. this was not the first time I engaged on this subject

Naeem Abdullah (the Philadelphia “imam” with two wives himself)
WARNING TO ALL IMAMS, AMIRS AND SHAYKHS: Beware of the “MASJID HOPPER”! The “MASJID HOPPER” attends various masjids – which is not a problem in and of itself. But the “MASJID HOPPER” which I speak of will get married at one masjid, get counseling at another masjid, and yet get divorced in another masjid! By using the technique of “MASJID HOPPING”, they are able to circumvent Allah’s law. A woman can get married while she is still married to her previous husband, a wife beater can get married under the guise of being ‘the good brother’, carriers of diseases can move freely among us transmitting viruses, sisters can have co-husbands, etc…

ADVICE: EVEN IF YOU DON’T GET ALONG WITH ANOTHER LEADER, COMMUNICATE WITH HIM WHEN SOMEONE FROM HIS COMMUNITY COMES TO YOU FOR MARRIAGE, COUNSELING OR DIVORCE!!!

Robin McLaren Of course all of this is going on outside the legal system which would prevent this sort of thing completely because you can’t get married to someone else if you are already married. Far be it from me to point this out to folks who disavow the legal system in the place in which they live.

^^^^ Who here thinks this is OK? You act outside the law here and no one is protected by the law. Furthermore you can’t get insurance benefits through this sort of “marriage”.

//Robin McLaren via Facebook 9 April 2013 at 8:42 pm

Look, those things mentioned are things 100% against islam, and I am against it 100%. However, telling people they can’t get married “off the books”, won’t prevent it. People will do what they want. Do you understand where I’m coming from? These people are just using the term polygamy to do their dirt. They were trash before Islam, and they are trash under the guise of Islam. I hate what they do, but not polygamy, especially since in reality under the law in in these cases its not marriage. They can NOT get any rights of marriage,except for one spouse, they can not legitimize any children, except the children born to the LEGAL spouse, they can’t file taxes together, or any other advantages of LEGAL marriage, except for the one they are LEGALLY married to. These same horrific goings on happen outside the Muslim community too, and honestly, many times there is little protection for them too. Unless someone is being FORCED into this, there is NOTHING the law can do. Trust me, many women, some who admittedly have been mistresses their entire lives prior to becoming Muslim(or CALLING themselves Muslim), like these type of arrangements. If we get on them we need to get on everyone else who plays house and does this foolishness. The bottom line is we can’t do a thing by the law when they are consenting adults, because since there’s no legal marriage, there is no laws being broken. I’m not calling you an Islamaphobe, and I commend you for working towards tolerance. I just don’t think you understand this issue according to the law & Islam, and I think your blame is misplaced. Have a good night Robin.

//Familja Jon via Facebook 9 April 2013 at 8:57 pm

Look, those things mentioned are things 100% against islam, and I am against it 100%. However, telling people they can’t get married “off the books”, won’t prevent it. People will do what they want. Do you understand where I’m coming from? These people are just using the term polygamy to do their dirt. They were trash before Islam, and they are trash under the guise of Islam. I hate what they do, but not polygamy, especially since in reality under the law in in these cases its not marriage. They can NOT get any rights of marriage,except for one spouse, they can not legitimize any children, except the children born to the LEGAL spouse, they can’t file taxes together, or any other advantages of LEGAL marriage, except for the one they are LEGALLY married to. These same horrific goings on happen outside the Muslim community too, and honestly, many times there is little protection for them too. Unless someone is being FORCED into this, there is NOTHING the law can do. Trust me, many women, some who admittedly have been mistresses their entire lives prior to becoming Muslim(or CALLING themselves Muslim), like these type of arrangements. If we get on them we need to get on everyone else who plays house and does this foolishness. The bottom line is we can’t do a thing by the law when they are consenting adults, because since there’s no legal marriage, there is no laws being broken. I’m not calling you an Islamaphobe, and I commend you for working towards tolerance. I just don’t think you understand this issue according to the law & Islam, and I think your blame is misplaced. Have a good night Robin.

//Familja Jon via Facebook 9 April 2013 at 8:57 pm

There absolutely could be something done. The major Muslim American orgs could come out and say that imams should not be conducting marriages except with a marriage license. I did several hours of research on this and found that most mosques require the license (which of course you get before the marriage ceremony is performed). This crap is going on under every ones noses and if you want credibility as law abiding Americans something needs to be done because this can and WILL be used against Muslim Americans at large. Mormons sure did distance themselves from polygamy for the sake of their community and show they sought to abide by the law. Same thing needs to be done by Muslims (since a comparison was made here TO Mormons, this is the case, HUGE distancing and condemning of “Mormon” polygamy)

//Robin McLaren via Facebook 9 April 2013 at 9:04 pm

There absolutely could be something done. The major Muslim American orgs could come out and say that imams should not be conducting marriages except with a marriage license. I did several hours of research on this and found that most mosques require the license (which of course you get before the marriage ceremony is performed). This crap is going on under every ones noses and if you want credibility as law abiding Americans something needs to be done because this can and WILL be used against Muslim Americans at large. Mormons sure did distance themselves from polygamy for the sake of their community and show they sought to abide by the law. Same thing needs to be done by Muslims (since a comparison was made here TO Mormons, this is the case, HUGE distancing and condemning of “Mormon” polygamy)

1. Why would a woman do this to herself? She has no legal rights if the marriage is not recognized by the state. Not cool and pretty unintelligent. Sigh.
2. Isn’t this what Gay people do? They marry without the recognition of the state. So why is this behavior acceptable in the name of homosexuality but not polygamy?

//Yasmina YR via Facebook 9 April 2013 at 10:52 pm

1. Why would a woman do this to herself? She has no legal rights if the marriage is not recognized by the state. Not cool and pretty unintelligent. Sigh.
2. Isn’t this what Gay people do? They marry without the recognition of the state. So why is this behavior acceptable in the name of homosexuality but not polygamy?

//Yasmina YR via Facebook 9 April 2013 at 10:52 pm

Homosexuals cannot marry except in some states. Some states have legal civil unions. Both of those are fully legal.

As yet polygamy is illegal. Go for it. If you think it should be legal fight the fight like the LGBT community has. There is nothing wrong whatsoever in mounting a legal challenge. Opinion on something prior to that challenge being mounted is really just opinion/

//Robin McLaren via Facebook 9 April 2013 at 10:57 pm

Homosexuals cannot marry except in some states. Some states have legal civil unions. Both of those are fully legal.

As yet polygamy is illegal. Go for it. If you think it should be legal fight the fight like the LGBT community has. There is nothing wrong whatsoever in mounting a legal challenge. Opinion on something prior to that challenge being mounted is really just opinion/

//Robin McLaren via Facebook 9 April 2013 at 10:57 pm

Robin, most Muslims in America don’t practice polygamy because it isn’t practiced by most Muslims in most nations… it has nothing to do with obeying what you refer to as “your” laws!!! You may not accept the concept of polygamy and you are free to speak against it, but your arguments seem biased. Your emotions are skewing your logic.

Also why do you keep saying ‘our’ laws. Many–if not most– Black Muslims are not immigrants/foreigners. They are converts. You are viewing them as outsiders disregarding American laws… when they could easily be Americans disregarding American laws. And since I’m speaking on technicality… technically, they are not breaking any laws… there is no marriage until it is recognized by the state

//Yasmina YR via Facebook 9 April 2013 at 10:57 pm

Robin, most Muslims in America don’t practice polygamy because it isn’t practiced by most Muslims in most nations… it has nothing to do with obeying what you refer to as “your” laws!!! You may not accept the concept of polygamy and you are free to speak against it, but your arguments seem biased. Your emotions are skewing your logic.

Also why do you keep saying ‘our’ laws. Many–if not most– Black Muslims are not immigrants/foreigners. They are converts. You are viewing them as outsiders disregarding American laws… when they could easily be Americans disregarding American laws. And since I’m speaking on technicality… technically, they are not breaking any laws… there is no marriage until it is recognized by the state

//Yasmina YR via Facebook 9 April 2013 at 10:57 pm

I wasn’t saying anything about them being outsiders. Point to where I did please because you won’t find it. I specifically said they are placing “Allah’s law” (as was told me repeatedly) above the laws of the country they are living in. “Living in” also does not imply “outsider”.

There you go again, “technicality”. Well indeed it is a technicality. Proud of that Yasmina? Proud of the fact these people are CLAIMING to be MARRIED. This goes a little bit deeper than shenanigan language playing when Muslim Americans who DO abide fully with the laws get affected by this. If you think ANYWHERE which you are implying in your words that this is AOK shame SHAME on you.

//Robin McLaren via Facebook 9 April 2013 at 11:05 pm

I wasn’t saying anything about them being outsiders. Point to where I did please because you won’t find it. I specifically said they are placing “Allah’s law” (as was told me repeatedly) above the laws of the country they are living in. “Living in” also does not imply “outsider”.

There you go again, “technicality”. Well indeed it is a technicality. Proud of that Yasmina? Proud of the fact these people are CLAIMING to be MARRIED. This goes a little bit deeper than shenanigan language playing when Muslim Americans who DO abide fully with the laws get affected by this. If you think ANYWHERE which you are implying in your words that this is AOK shame SHAME on you.

//Robin McLaren via Facebook 9 April 2013 at 11:05 pm

Really? If they are “just living together” why is there a need for a marriage performed by an imam?

//Robin McLaren via Facebook 9 April 2013 at 11:08 pm

Really? If they are “just living together” why is there a need for a marriage performed by an imam?

//Robin McLaren via Facebook 9 April 2013 at 11:08 pm

Are you saying these imams are just slapping an okay on “just living together” polygamously?

//Robin McLaren via Facebook 9 April 2013 at 11:09 pm

Are you saying these imams are just slapping an okay on “just living together” polygamously?

//Robin McLaren via Facebook 9 April 2013 at 11:09 pm

I don’t like the concept of polygamy. Islam does not force a woman to be in a polygamous marriage, therefore their ‘marriages’ do not affect me and never will. Thus I don’t really care. Like we have established, this is not illegal. Gay couples have been doing it for decades. It doesn’t bother me when they do it, so why should this bother me? I like to keep an open mind. People all around the world do things differently. This is different and I don’t care as long as it isn’t harming innocent people. These men and women are grown adults. They make their own decisions so I’ll let them be.

“CLAIMING” … hmm, so a marriage is only validated by the state? I’d say that a church or mosque is sufficient. Why does it need the government’s stamp of approval? If they are committed and faithful, I recognize it as a legitimate marriage.

lol why do you keep saying this will affect Muslim Americans who DO abide by the laws? I abide and their life will NOT affect me. That’s the BEAUTY of America and its laws 🙂 I’m protected against someone else’s choice to leave differently. Thank God for our Constitution.

//Yasmina YR via Facebook 9 April 2013 at 11:13 pm

I don’t like the concept of polygamy. Islam does not force a woman to be in a polygamous marriage, therefore their ‘marriages’ do not affect me and never will. Thus I don’t really care. Like we have established, this is not illegal. Gay couples have been doing it for decades. It doesn’t bother me when they do it, so why should this bother me? I like to keep an open mind. People all around the world do things differently. This is different and I don’t care as long as it isn’t harming innocent people. These men and women are grown adults. They make their own decisions so I’ll let them be.

“CLAIMING” … hmm, so a marriage is only validated by the state? I’d say that a church or mosque is sufficient. Why does it need the government’s stamp of approval? If they are committed and faithful, I recognize it as a legitimate marriage.

lol why do you keep saying this will affect Muslim Americans who DO abide by the laws? I abide and their life will NOT affect me. That’s the BEAUTY of America and its laws 🙂 I’m protected against someone else’s choice to leave differently. Thank God for our Constitution.

//Yasmina YR via Facebook 9 April 2013 at 11:13 pm

Gay couples have NOT been getting MARRIED for decades. They have been living together. Major difference. Now in some states and in some countries gay marriage has been legalized. Some gay couples have gotten their unions blessed by ministers but that is in no way claimed to be a marriage.
Yes indeed people all around the world do things differently and when you live in those countries I would say you need to abide by those laws.

This is how it works. You get a license from the state and a minister, rabbi, imam or justice of the peace/judge performs the ceremony. Sorry, BLEEP, it is not enough to have one of those conduct a ceremony without a license because that marriage would not be LEGAL.

Here it is. Every single state requires a marriage license to be legally married. The religious person or judge only solemnizes it. You can get a marriage licence and never have it solemnized and you also are NOT married., It is a two part process.

What planet are you living on that you don’t face discrimination whatsoever as a Muslim living in the US? If you have never had anything personal occur to you, you SHOULD be concerned about it occurring to others. If you don’t think that this practice going on here outside the law will be fodder for the Islamophobes think again. Furthermore responsible Muslims live responsibly and don’t condone or totally ignore something this rampant.

//Robin McLaren via Facebook 9 April 2013 at 11:31 pm

Gay couples have NOT been getting MARRIED for decades. They have been living together. Major difference. Now in some states and in some countries gay marriage has been legalized. Some gay couples have gotten their unions blessed by ministers but that is in no way claimed to be a marriage.
Yes indeed people all around the world do things differently and when you live in those countries I would say you need to abide by those laws.

This is how it works. You get a license from the state and a minister, rabbi, imam or justice of the peace/judge performs the ceremony. Sorry, BLEEP, it is not enough to have one of those conduct a ceremony without a license because that marriage would not be LEGAL.

Here it is. Every single state requires a marriage license to be legally married. The religious person or judge only solemnizes it. You can get a marriage licence and never have it solemnized and you also are NOT married., It is a two part process.

What planet are you living on that you don’t face discrimination whatsoever as a Muslim living in the US? If you have never had anything personal occur to you, you SHOULD be concerned about it occurring to others. If you don’t think that this practice going on here outside the law will be fodder for the Islamophobes think again. Furthermore responsible Muslims live responsibly and don’t condone or totally ignore something this rampant.

Oh of course I’ve faced discrimination. I think when you’ve faced it so much, you become desensitized to it [sad I know]…but I see your point 🙂

//Yasmina YR via Facebook 9 April 2013 at 11:40 pm

Man? Who is a man? My level of frustration is that for YEARS, make that 40, I have when ever it arose, stood up for Muslims. That’s a long time Yasmina that I have not just been doing this for the hell of it. It’s because I respect the Muslims I know beyond words. I have both foreign family (some who reside here) and MANY Muslim American friends. This isn’t a play game for me, it is my entire being. Hell I received and award from CAIR and Congressional recognition for my activism on behalf of Muslims. Now I see this SHIT going on by some so called Muslims here and it makes my skin crawl. Does that explain my passion about this? I am also the mother of an Arab-American daughter who has been a mother lion for 34 years when anything racist occurred to her. I know FAR too many Muslim Americans whose skin would crawl at this being done in their faith’s name also.

//Robin McLaren via Facebook 9 April 2013 at 11:50 pm

Man? Who is a man? My level of frustration is that for YEARS, make that 40, I have when ever it arose, stood up for Muslims. That’s a long time Yasmina that I have not just been doing this for the hell of it. It’s because I respect the Muslims I know beyond words. I have both foreign family (some who reside here) and MANY Muslim American friends. This isn’t a play game for me, it is my entire being. Hell I received and award from CAIR and Congressional recognition for my activism on behalf of Muslims. Now I see this SHIT going on by some so called Muslims here and it makes my skin crawl. Does that explain my passion about this? I am also the mother of an Arab-American daughter who has been a mother lion for 34 years when anything racist occurred to her. I know FAR too many Muslim Americans whose skin would crawl at this being done in their faith’s name also.

//Robin McLaren via Facebook 9 April 2013 at 11:50 pm

Islam is nacism, it should be baned and destroyed all over the world, is is satans cult, Do not allow anything to muslims in the USA.

//Míla Pudil via Facebook 10 April 2013 at 3:41 am

Islam is nacism, it should be baned and destroyed all over the world, is is satans cult, Do not allow anything to muslims in the USA.

//Míla Pudil via Facebook 10 April 2013 at 3:41 am

This is how America is, this is how ^ people were back then when don’t forget quite a few decades ago in America mixed race marriages were banned in almost 2/3 rd of the states. Now see it’s legal…

I thought the government was not suppose to make laws establishing or prohibiting religion?

//Jason Chester via Facebook 10 April 2013 at 6:20 am

I thought the government was not suppose to make laws establishing or prohibiting religion?

//Jason Chester via Facebook 10 April 2013 at 6:20 am

I like this group because of the great information shared. I believe you follow the law of the land in which you live. If you don’t like the law then go somewhere else to live. When I went to the UAE I followed the laws of the land and did not complain.

//Rayeann Noyes via Facebook 10 April 2013 at 7:51 am

I like this group because of the great information shared. I believe you follow the law of the land in which you live. If you don’t like the law then go somewhere else to live. When I went to the UAE I followed the laws of the land and did not complain.

//Rayeann Noyes via Facebook 10 April 2013 at 7:51 am

You Mila Pudil are disturbed. A sick dranged person that needs help. Satan has already got a hold on you.

//Rayeann Noyes via Facebook 10 April 2013 at 7:52 am

You Mila Pudil are disturbed. A sick dranged person that needs help. Satan has already got a hold on you.

//Rayeann Noyes via Facebook 10 April 2013 at 7:52 am

Mormons can only have 1 wife (by church standards and US law), it’s the FLDS that still believe in plural marriage. They don’t go to the same church.

//Gordon M Ryan via Facebook 10 April 2013 at 10:53 am

Mormons can only have 1 wife (by church standards and US law), it’s the FLDS that still believe in plural marriage. They don’t go to the same church.

//Gordon M Ryan via Facebook 10 April 2013 at 10:53 am

What I mean by “just living together” is that their relationship has no basis or protection in the law. The marriages are not recognized by Federal, state, or local governments. If their church sanctions the marriages it matters not to anyone, in my opinion. I am aware that Mormons, in general, do not sanction plural marriages, that it is upheld, now, by only the more fundamental fringe of the LDS. The same can be said of Islam. Islam allows for plural marriage yet it is seldom followed by the vast majority of Islamic devotees.

//Don M. Mee via Facebook 10 April 2013 at 11:39 am

What I mean by “just living together” is that their relationship has no basis or protection in the law. The marriages are not recognized by Federal, state, or local governments. If their church sanctions the marriages it matters not to anyone, in my opinion. I am aware that Mormons, in general, do not sanction plural marriages, that it is upheld, now, by only the more fundamental fringe of the LDS. The same can be said of Islam. Islam allows for plural marriage yet it is seldom followed by the vast majority of Islamic devotees.

//Don M. Mee via Facebook 10 April 2013 at 11:39 am

@Rodney B. Proffitt, there are jobs all over the places. NO one wants them though.

//Jason Chester via Facebook 10 April 2013 at 4:46 pm

@Rodney B. Proffitt, there are jobs all over the places. NO one wants them though.

//Jason Chester via Facebook 10 April 2013 at 4:46 pm

All of them will have to reverse the ban when SCOTUS rules, again, that such ban is unconstitutional.

//Ayman Freeman via Facebook 10 April 2013 at 5:36 pm

All of them will have to reverse the ban when SCOTUS rules, again, that such ban is unconstitutional.

//Ayman Freeman via Facebook 10 April 2013 at 5:36 pm

If this nation had any self preservation, it would be all 50.

//Ian Carlson via Facebook 10 April 2013 at 6:30 pm

If this nation had any self preservation, it would be all 50.

//Ian Carlson via Facebook 10 April 2013 at 6:30 pm

There is no law that says it’s illegal to ban Islam in America what so ever. So if you want to cry like babies fine. Just you wait until Sharia Law comes along and over throw your freedom of speech.