"Bucannon is a terrible tackler in terms of form and technique. He is almost always lunging or diving at the opponent. Bucannon throws shoulder bombs and does not consistent wrap up, which is a shame because he is physically capable. He just has a ton of bad habits that lead to inconsistent results."

I like him. Super productive and a playmaker in a good conference. Tackling machine. Wash. State had a terrible defense so I'm not sure how much it says about his ability. So far I like Calvin Pryor the best out of the top safeties. Then probably Deone and also further down Terrence Brooks. Pryor and Brooks played on great pass defenses compared to Deone so it's hard to say if any one player is a large part of that reason. It's safer to pick someone who plays on a good defense.

Originally posted by DarthNiner:"Bucannon is a terrible tackler in terms of form and technique. He is almost always lunging or diving at the opponent. Bucannon throws shoulder bombs and does not consistent wrap up, which is a shame because he is physically capable. He just has a ton of bad habits that lead to inconsistent results."

I'm having a hard time finding a SS that I would want to replace Whitner from day 1. Not a huge fan of Bucannon, Bailey, Loston, Dixon. Phoenix brought up Cody Prewitt but he didn't declare. He would probably have been my first choice great production and great size. Has Reid type size and ability. If you made me pick right now I'd consider Clinton-Dix at the end of the 1st and convert him to SS although he has flaws as well. I'm not sure If I'd rather have him at 30 or Gilbert/Verrett/Matthews/Robinson, etc.

Originally posted by Gore_21:
I'm having a hard time finding a SS that I would want to replace Whitner from day 1. Not a huge fan of Bucannon, Bailey, Loston, Dixon. Phoenix brought up Cody Prewitt but he didn't declare. He would probably have been my first choice great production and great size. Has Reid type size and ability. If you made me pick right now I'd consider Clinton-Dix at the end of the 1st and convert him to SS although he has flaws as well. I'm not sure If I'd rather have him at 30 or Gilbert/Verrett/Matthews/Robinson, etc.

Dixon is my favorite, just because of the upside, but in reality, none of these guys are ready to start from Day 1. Best case scenario is Whitner re-signs for 2 more seasons, allowing a rookie to develop in that time. Not a fan of Bucannon, whereas both Dixon and Bucannon aren't superb in coverage,Dixon at least is a very capable and fundamentally sound tackler.

Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:
Dixon is my favorite, just because of the upside, but in reality, none of these guys are ready to start from Day 1. Best case scenario is Whitner re-signs for 2 more seasons, allowing a rookie to develop in that time. Not a fan of Bucannon, whereas both Dixon and Bucannon aren't superb in coverage,Dixon at least is a very capable and fundamentally sound tackler.

Agree, I think Dixon plays stiff and probably will struggle in coverage and Bucannon isnt a great tackler; from what I seen he can be blocked out easily. I was trying to find more on Calvin Pryor. Just not liking this SS class and I'd prefer to move on from Whitner get cheaper and younger but not sure we can with what is out there. I'd give Whitner 1-2 years at his age like 3 million or so a year but I think he could be looking for a 3-4 year deal.

Originally posted by Gore_21:
Agree, I think Dixon plays a little stiff and probably will struggle in coverage and Bucannon isnt a great tackler and will get ran over. I was trying to find more on Calvin Pryor. Just not liking this SS class and I'd prefer to move on from Whitner get cheaper and younger but not sure we can with what is out there. I'd give Whitner 1-2 years at his age like 3 million or so a year but I think he could be looking for a 3-4 year deal.

Jimmie Ward had a really good week, somewhat undersized but very fluid, has drawn rave reviews and was moved all over the field and still succeeded, he could be a guy to keep an eye on. Pryor is basically Goldson 2.0, huge, monster hitter, does some dumb stuff, takes some dumb penalties, gets caught out of position in coverage at times.

Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:
Jimmie Ward had a really good week, somewhat undersized but very fluid, has drawn rave reviews and was moved all over the field and still succeeded, he could be a guy to keep an eye on. Pryor is basically Goldson 2.0, huge, monster hitter, does some dumb stuff, takes some dumb penalties, gets caught out of position in coverage at times.

I haven't looked at Ward but I will have to check him out I seen he had a great senior bowl. What are your thoughts on Clinton-Dix and would you take him at 30 instead of say Verrett, Gilbert, Matthews, Robinson, etc?

And yeah guys I see starting to come around to big tall corners but if you don't use them like Seattle (play press, hold, ped, etc... thats as much of their system as the players.) You have to use them right we can't be playing 10 yards off keeping everything in front of you with big corners. Not the best use of them.

Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:Jimmie Ward had a really good week, somewhat undersized but very fluid, has drawn rave reviews and was moved all over the field and still succeeded, he could be a guy to keep an eye on. Pryor is basically Goldson 2.0, huge, monster hitter, does some dumb stuff, takes some dumb penalties, gets caught out of position in coverage at times.

Huge fan of this guy. He is more of a FS, which is fine, as I like thought of Eric Reid at SS anyway. Back to Ward, he has lots of experience covering slot WRs, and would be a great FS option for us.

Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:Jimmie Ward had a really good week, somewhat undersized but very fluid, has drawn rave reviews and was moved all over the field and still succeeded, he could be a guy to keep an eye on. Pryor is basically Goldson 2.0, huge, monster hitter, does some dumb stuff, takes some dumb penalties, gets caught out of position in coverage at times.

Huge fan of this guy. He is more of a FS, which is fine, as I like thought of Eric Reid at SS anyway. Back to Ward, he has lots of experience covering slot WRs, and would be a great FS option for us.

No way I move Reid from FS; he's doing too well. I actually want us to take a guy at FS and convert him to SS. I want someone physical enough to be a SS and stop the run but yeah have the experience of covering and playing center field. In today's NFL coverage has become more important than run stopping. Of course I want a guy who can still stop the run but he better be able to cover.

As for Ward I see 11 career INTs. Of course not as great of competition but I like guys who produce over guys who have great potential but don't produce. If you aren't getting int's in college odds are you won't in the NFL. Not saying it can't happen but I like to see guys who just have a knack for the ball. Some guys just end up in the right spot at the right time. Some times it skill. I compare it to before we had Aldon we had guys who would get pressure but couldn't capitalize on sacks or finish a sack. Well Aldon came in and he just has a knack for it... he finishes sacks, he is relentless he doesnt quit and gets sacks. Anyways, most SS are more of run stoppers and aren't ball hawks but ideally I want a guy who can cover and get int's. Whitner is one of those 1-2 int a year guys. He doesn't have a real knack for the ball although he is a great run stopper and he brings a physical presence.

Edit: Another thing I look for especially in CB's (S as well) is how fluid are their hips? Do they play high and stiff (not much bend...cant change direction quickly)? You want to see a guy who can break on the ball, change direction quickly. Can they play center field, can they track the ball in the air, are they going to be physical enough to tackle a TE but still be fast enough to cover one? And this isnt directed at you oldman or Phoenix, you guys are good at evaluating, I'm just saying in general to all.

And for the record might sound like I'm against Bucannon and it's not that he'd be near the top of my list although that doesn't say much because I'm not liking this SS class. Right now I'd put them as Clinton-Dix, Ward, Pryor, Bucannon, Dixon. I'm not sure I'd take Clinton-Dix in round 1 over Gilbert/Verrett/Matthews/etc. The other guys I'd take in the 2nd at the earliest but nobody has stood out to me and would make me feel comfortable if they had to start day one. As for Ward I think I'd have him bulk up to 200, he can cover but he needs to get stronger and bigger to handle the run game/physical WRs/TEs.

Originally posted by Gore_21:
I'm having a hard time finding a SS that I would want to replace Whitner from day 1. Not a huge fan of Bucannon, Bailey, Loston, Dixon. Phoenix brought up Cody Prewitt but he didn't declare. He would probably have been my first choice great production and great size. Has Reid type size and ability. If you made me pick right now I'd consider Clinton-Dix at the end of the 1st and convert him to SS although he has flaws as well. I'm not sure If I'd rather have him at 30 or Gilbert/Verrett/Matthews/Robinson, etc.

Dixon is my favorite, just because of the upside, but in reality, none of these guys are ready to start from Day 1. Best case scenario is Whitner re-signs for 2 more seasons, allowing a rookie to develop in that time. Not a fan of Bucannon, whereas both Dixon and Bucannon aren't superb in coverage,Dixon at least is a very capable and fundamentally sound tackler.

We sooo shuld have taken another S in the top 4 last season. Whatever. Thats why Wwhitner is one of biggest needs to resign this offseason, simply no one i trust to replace him.

I like Buccanon, i think he can be coached, but he is raw. I also like Christian Bryant alot in the latr rounds as a potential developmental project, but really we need to reign whitner.

Hes not perfect, but without resigning him our secndary going into next season will be scary in a bad way.

Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:Jimmie Ward had a really good week, somewhat undersized but very fluid, has drawn rave reviews and was moved all over the field and still succeeded, he could be a guy to keep an eye on. Pryor is basically Goldson 2.0, huge, monster hitter, does some dumb stuff, takes some dumb penalties, gets caught out of position in coverage at times.

Huge fan of this guy. He is more of a FS, which is fine, as I like thought of Eric Reid at SS anyway. Back to Ward, he has lots of experience covering slot WRs, and would be a great FS option for us.

No way I move Reid from FS; he's doing too well. I actually want us to take a guy at FS and convert him to SS. I want someone physical enough to be a SS and stop the run but yeah have the experience of covering and playing center field. In today's NFL coverage has become more important than run stopping. Of course I want a guy who can still stop the run but he better be able to cover.

As for Ward I see 11 career INTs. Of course not as great of competition but I like guys who produce over guys who have great potential but don't produce. If you aren't getting int's in college odds are you won't in the NFL. Not saying it can't happen but I like to see guys who just have a knack for the ball. Some guys just end up in the right spot at the right time. Some times it skill. I compare it to before we had Aldon we had guys who would get pressure but couldn't capitalize on sacks or finish a sack. Well Aldon came in and he just has a knack for it... he finishes sacks, he is relentless he doesnt quit and gets sacks. Anyways, most SS are more of run stoppers and aren't ball hawks but ideally I want a guy who can cover and get int's. Whitner is one of those 1-2 int a year guys. He doesn't have a real knack for the ball although he is a great run stopper and he brings a physical presence.

Edit: Another thing I look for especially in CB's (S as well) is how fluid are their hips? Do they play high and stiff (not much bend...cant change direction quickly)? You want to see a guy who can break on the ball, change direction quickly. Can they play center field, can they track the ball in the air, are they going to be physical enough to tackle a TE but still be fast enough to cover one? And this isnt directed at you oldman or Phoenix, you guys are good at evaluating, I'm just saying in general to all.

Christian bryant is my project guy following this formula. Late round guy due to his injury, but he i a gamer IMO and was a leader in that locker room even after the injury.

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