Pages

Monday, August 27, 2018

'Josiah Pops the Question' Recap

Counting On "Josiah Pops the Question"

In Laredo, Jinger and Jeremy are visited by Luis and Cara Robles and their three kids, Eli, Olivia, and Emily. Luis and Jeremy were teammates on the New York Red Bulls professional soccer team. "Back in the day, I was the single guy," says Jeremy. "They were the settled down, married couple. It was just a good relationship we had."

During the visit, Jinger and Jeremy volunteer to watch the kids so Luis and Cara can go out for dinner. When jokingly asked what qualifies them to watch the kids, Jeremy responds. "I used to be a kid. She has 36 siblings that she watched."

Jeremy admits that he has never changed a diaper. When asked how many diapers they have each changed, the Duggars sisters' responses are:

Jinger: "I've changed hundreds, if not thousands, of diapers in my lifetime."

Jana: "Hundreds? Thousands?"

Jessa: "My mom and dad changed the bulk of the diapers, but all of us kids definitely got our share."

After Luis and Cara leave, Jinger and Jeremy and the kids enjoy playtime in the backyard before ordering pizza. "How did your mom do it with 19 kids?" Jeremy asks Jinger. "She's amazing," responds Jinger. "She really is," agrees Jeremy.

Lauren and her family, who have recently moved to Northwest Arkansas, are preparing to travel back to Milledgeville, Georgia, where their family has lived for more than 100 years, so mom Lana can give birth to her ninth child. It's a boy, and his name will be Duke. Dwain and Lana Swanson give their daughters "L" names and their sons "D" names. Lauren tears up as she piles into a big bus with her family and waves goodbye to Josiah.

At this point, Josiah and Lauren have been courting for a couple months. "We've really become just best friends," says Lauren.

Lauren's parents approve of the relationship. "I think Josiah is a great match for Lauren," says Lana. "He's so thoughtful and kind. I just think he's wonderful."

"[Josiah] and Lauren are just kind of a natural fit for each other," adds Dwain.

A short while later, Josiah flies commercial to Georgia to meet the new baby and propose to Lauren. "I think I may be more nervous about losing the ring than the proposal," he admits.

Josiah is thrilled to meet Duke Matthew Swanson, who weighs just over 7 lbs. Random fact: Lana's longest labor (around eight hours) was with Lauren. Duke shares a middle name with Josiah, a decision that Dwain says was partly because of Josiah.

The following day, Dwain and David (Lauren's brother) help Josiah set up the proposal site in a field where Dwain proposed to Lana. Using a stack of hay bales, the guys string flours, place picture frames, and scatter flower petals.

After a family lunch of Chick-fil-A, Dwain suggests that he, Josiah, and Lauren go on a walk. As they arrive at the proposal site, Dwain walks away, and Josiah gets down on one knee. "I'm so grateful for you," he tells Lauren. "There's nobody I'd rather spend, nowhere else I'd spend the rest of my life with, than you. God has been the one bringing us together in this. He is the one making our story. I see how perfect we are for each other. Lauren, I love you. I want to spend the rest of my days growing old with you. Will you marry me?" And Lauren, completely surprised, says, "I'd love to, Si." Bring on the hand holding and the "I love yous."

Back in Arkansas, as Joy nears her due date, she and Jessa go on a walk at an indoor track. Jessa tells Joy that her labor pains were "agony" and also that the most important thing is to not get discouraged.

It's very possible that the day the courtship was announced was NOT the actual day of Josiah's "court-posal". I wouldn't at all be surprised if it turns out they started courting BEFORE she tagged along on the family trip "down under", even though the announcement came after. There are pics of Lauren and Josiah together from that trip where they look very cozy together, much more than just "good friends" would be. That would explain the discrepancy.

I think it’s so weird that Joe and Kendra and Josiah and Lauren waited to say “I love you until engagement”. The other couples didn’t do that iirc. I think it’s too exaggerated. It’s not gonna make you “stir up desires” and it’s importnat to make it clear you love a person and have them know that and vice versa before you marry them.

12:21, while it’s not a choice I would make not kissing definitely isn’t weird, tons of people choose not to until they’re married. However not not saying I love you is weird though, and not holding hands is BIZARRE! Like what do you think is going to happen?

Josiah and Lauren had a rather short courtship, as did Joe and Kendra. So I understand why they wouldn't want to say "ILY" until the engagement. John and Abbie have had the shortest official courtship so far (not even 2 months) and I'd not be surprised if they didn't say ILY until engagement either.

But the couples who wed earlier courted for longer. Jessa and Ben courted for 11 months, and while Jill and Derick didn't court that long they had been chatting on the Web for a while before they met in person. I think Jinger and Jeremy courted about 8 months. So it makes sense they wouldn't wait for engagement to say "I love you".

NO BEN WHEN THE SECOND MILE, WITH JESSA, HE BUT SOOOOOO MUCH THOUGHT, I WAS VERY IMPRESSED HIM, AND I THINK JESSA PROPOSAL WAS THE BEST ONE YET!!!!!!!!!!!!!! BEN I THINK U ARE AMAZING, AND U ARE A GREAT HUSBAND/FATHER TOO!!!!!!!!

Some of us are like "poor Jessa" and prefer a simple, short and sweet "will you marry me" over a long, sentimental speech. Obviously neither way is wrong! It just depends on personality and preference.

I asked my husband if he wanted to get married and he said yes. We had held hands, front hugged, kissed, and said we loved each other many times before then. How many Duggar Rules of Engagement did we break? And how did it make any difference, 42 happy years later? God blessed us anyway. All that Duggar fuss is for nothing.

jessa should be encouraging her sister to go to a hospital because she had bad labor. why would you want to birth a child at home knowing what happened to your sisters. only smart one is jinger went to a hospital.

Well, labor is only more nightmarish and stressful when you're confined in a hospital full of intrusive strangers, wires, and beeping machines. So that's one reason to labor at home, if home is a comfortable place for her (I prefer a birth center to my home or a hospital, personally).

The other reason is that complications and harmful interventions are more likely to happen in a hospital, even controlling for low-risk births only.

The upside of hospitals is that if a serious complication does occur, you save a couple of minutes if it's a time-sensitive emergency.

But most complications are not especially time-sensitive, so starting at home and going to the hospital if those do occur (like many of the Duggars chose) is still safer than starting out at the hospital, where they're more likely to occur in the first place.

Jinger had different circumstances. She had an induction, which is a high-risk situation. So that had to be done in a hospital, no choice in the matter.

When in labor, I wanted the entire hospital full of wires and machines, and even the "strangers" who I knew had years of training and experience in such matters. I didn't care if they intervened. In fact, if they could have had the baby for me or if they woke me up when it was over, all the better! They were the only thing keeping that "nightmare" from careening out of control. That and an IV of pain meds. I couldn't have done it anywhere else. If Joy was the least bit worried, she should never have heard Jessa tell about her horrible back labor at home and all that. That didn't do Joy any favors. There's no reason to be uncomfortable or at (home) risk during labor any more. There are hospitals that have procedures to deal with birth every day. The aim is to have a living baby and mother, even if you end up with a C-section.

I don't know if Joy was safer laboring at home than at a hospital. She had blood sugar issues during pregnancy and attempted a homebirth while attended by Jill and another midwife who didn't know Gideon's position. His position would have been easily determined at a hospital. Being a half an hour away from the hospital during an emergency can be deadly. All four Duggar daughters ended up in the hospital in relation to their first labors. The hospital saved Jessa's life by stopping the bleeding and with a blood transfusion. It's frustrating to read people so critical of hospitals and stating how unsafe to they are to then rely on the same institutions to save them and their baby's lives when their homebirth plan fails. The Duggar girls are far more diplomatic when speaking about hospital vs homebirth than some commenters.

Julia K., I have yet to know any women who has labored in a hospital being exposed to intrusive strangers, wires and beeping machines. They are in the labor rooms, being taken care of a nurse/midwife, with husband and/or other family members. There is a doctor on call, who they probably know already. The labor rooms are comfortable, mom can walk about and whatever, and any monitoring of the baby is not intrusive and VERY NECESSARY, especially if mom requests pain medications. Interventions only occur if necessary.

The statistics do not show that complications and serious interventions are caused by having a child in a hospital but that interventions OCCUR in the hospital, where they should take place.

While I personally would not want to have had any of my (13) babies at home, I always wanted to labor as long as possible at home before going to the hospital. I was only at the hospital from 20 minutes (a little close for comfort on that one) to 2 hours before my babies were born. It seemed the perfect mix of privacy at home for labor and knowledge of being where I could receive immediate help if something went wrong during delivery. Of course I had all low risk pregnancy, and except for a few posterior babies, they were all in good positions and weighed between 7-9 lbs.

I'm glad you were satisfied with your birth location and experience! I did not want to sleep through mine - it was the most meaningful day of my life. Like you, I couldn't have done what I did anywhere else. Everyone has different things that help them feel relaxed and empowered enough to give birth, and I respect your needs there as well the Duggars'. Feeling relaxed and empowered has real bearing on medical outcomes during birth, since it helps open the cervix. If wires and machines make you feel relaxed and empowered, I'm glad you had them!

All else equal, there are still plenty of reasons to avoid the risks and side effects of common labor interventions (e.g. epidural, pitocin, C-section, etc.) unless medically necessary. It's not true there's no reason to avoid these procedures if possible. Of course the aim is to have a living baby and mother, but that's a very low bar. Health outcomes can vary for living babies and mothers depending on what is done.

Here's an overview of health outcomes associated with epidurals, for example: http://www.mothering.com/articles/the-hidden-risk-of-epidurals/

From what it looked like on the show, Joy's blood sugar issues resolved before the end of her pregnancy.

I'm not sure what was up with Gideon's position. Ultrasound at any imaging center, which hopefully they were going to, would have shown his positions during pregnancy. Midwives also palpitate to feel the position throughout pregnancy. So if they had a decent midwife I would have expected they'd have accurately known Gideon's position within a week of when labor started. Now, babies can turn late in pregnancy or during labor. But I hear that's less common when they're big like Gideon was. Maybe they knew he was breech a while back and tried a home birth anyway? That's very unlikely to succeed and would qualify as high risk; unless the baby only turned breech during labor, it's unlikely to turn to the correct orientation during labor. For a baby that is known to be breech before labor, it's better to attempt an external cephalic version late in pregnancy but before labor starts. I can't see any version of that story that sounds good.

However, one thing is clear, which is that Gideon would probably have been breech and likely born by C-section whether Joy started off in the hospital or at home. It's unfortunate but was probably inevitable.

Going to the hospital in cases like that is usually no big rush. Usually when an unplanned C-section becomes necessary, things take an hour or so to set up at the hospital anyway. The baby's not going anywhere and mom is fine for a while. The problem in most cases is not that things are changing for the worse, but rather that nothing is changing.

Likewise, Jessa would likely have hemmorhaged whether she gave birth in the hospital or at home. It's unfortunate but was probably inevitable. Midwives carry Pitocin to stop hemorrhages. Once she was stable it was appropriate that she went to the hospital to get more blood.

Going to the hospital when you need surgery or a blood transfusion is of course the right course of action. Going to the hospital when you have an uncomplicated headcold is more likely to expose you to drug-resistant hospital germs and make you miserable for hours in the ER when you could be sitting at home watching Netflix, eating chicken soup, and taking a decongestant. Likewise, some people - not all - prefer a less hectic setting for uncomplicated childbirth and only go to the hospital to get interventions if the need arises. When you go to a hospital, they assume it's because you need them to do something.

It's not at all hypocritical to start managing such a situation at home and then go to the hospital if necessary and "rely on the same institutions to save them and their baby's lives." That's not a failure of the plan - that is a contingency within the plan! Heck, even people who want hospital births are encouraged to accomplish most of their labor at home.

Everyone I know in three different states who labored in a hospital was exposed to strangers, wires, and beeping machines! We must know different people.

When I was planning a hospital birth, I was told there was no way I could meet or get to know the nurses beforehand, and midwives were not allowed. A friend of a friend who gave birth there said she was forcibly confined to the bed even without an epidural. I asked about "walking epidurals" and they said they only did traditional ones. And they said if I had a C-section they would not give the baby to me or my husband in the operating room. So I changed to a birth center instead, which was wonderful.

I am glad your hospital is much better than mine! They vary in protocols, and that can make all the difference. I wonder if that's why Jinger went all the way to San Antonio: to find a baby-friendly hospital?

Although the quality of hospital (and midwife!) does make a huge difference, on average, the statistics do show that home birth is safer. Outcomes were better for both mothers and babies, and fewer complications and interventions occurred at home. A meta-study of 24,092 low-risk pregnant women concluded:

"Perinatal mortality was not significantly different in the two groups (OR = 0.87, 95% CI 0.54–1.41). The principal difference in the outcome was a lower frequency of low Apgar scores (OR = 0.55; 0.41–0.74) and severe lacerations (OR = 0.61; 0.54–0.83) in the home birth group. Fewer medical interventions occurred in the home birth group: induction (statistically significant ORs in the range 0.06–0.39), augmentation (0.26–0.69), episiotomy (0.02–0.39), operative vaginal birth (0.03–0.42), and cesarean section (0.05–0.31). No maternal deaths occurred in the studies."

1) The quality of hospitals, birth centers, and midwives varies. What makes people feel relaxed and empowered enough to accomplish birthing their baby varies. So you must judge in your own individual case what is best, and you cannot judge others for choosing what in their individual cases was best, because it varies due to the circumstances.

2) You especially cannot judge people for having home births, since despite the variance, studies show they are safer on average than hospital births, for low-risk pregnancies. This is not ammunition against individuals who choose hospital births (since circumstances vary!) but merely additional affirmation for those who choose home births.

Julia - I agree with your last statement. The quality of medical facilities and practitioners vary dramatically. Hospital births aren't for everyone. Home birth is a solid and safe, often times preferable, alternative to the hospital when attended by qualified midwives.

However, there are women who do not view hospitals as nightmarish or intrusive. Many prefer to have their baby's vitals monitored to ensure they are not in distress. The "strangers" are viewed as medical professionals dedicated to safely delivering their child. The vast majority will respect your birth plan and will limit interventions unless absolutely unavoidable. From what we've seen of Jinger and Kendra's labors, they were able to be mobile. Jinger's epidural actually allowed her body to relax enough to begin active labor. It just shows that interventions can be beneficial if the mother is open to them being part of their birth plan (not saying that women should accept them if they feel uncomfortable).

The reason why Michelle called emergency services was because Jessa's midwife could not stop the hemorrhaging. It was only when paramedics arrived that Jessa was fully stabilized because Certified Professional Midwives cannot administer pitocin or other drugs. It was just sad that Jessa wasn't able to enjoy the first hours of Spurgeon's life with Ben. The hospital may have been able to more quickly stop the bleeding and avoided the blood transfusion as well as minimized the time mother and baby spent apart.

I didn't realize that Jessa's midwife could not stop the hemorrhaging. That helps the episode make sense! I had the wrong impression before.

I'm surprised and dismayed that CPMs cannot administer Pitocin like LMs and CNMs. It's pretty simple compared to the other duties of a midwife, and as you say, stopping the bleeding sooner probably would have avoided the transfusion and separation. That sounds like a major factor to consider when choosing providers.

Another great episode! I wonder if Josiah bought the engagement ring at Whites Jewelers, like everyone else in the family. TLC has changed up the format a little (although I'm not complaining, TLC is doing a fabulous job this season)

I like how Jeremy is thinking through what is involved in being a parent--we've seen this in several scenes on the show--and realizing the work and committment involved. He is approaching parenthood from a place of maturity (even if he did stuff a whole piece of pizza in his mouth!).

The thing I loved about Josiah's proposal was that it was all about her, not him. So sweet. He was thinking of her when he proposed at the same site her parents became engaged. It was well thought through.

I agree, though I wasn't that impressed with the court-posal that seemed rather impersonal and rushed, the actual marriage proposal was very sweet and well thought out. And certainly better that way around than the opposite.

Indeed, watching Josiah and Lauren interact in the actual show, has given me a very different, more positive impression of them as a couple, than the brief awkward "official announcement video"s of the courtship, engagement and wedding shown on the TLC site earlier, as those did make me question their chemistry. Not really questioning it now.

I love how much Lauren’s family love Josiah!It is so sweet and of course he will be one of the family , so refreshing to see a close family embracing their daughter’s soon to be husband! They seem like a wonderful family!

Really? I think this post and comments has been one of the more civil discussions posted on this site. There have been some interesting discussions about whether Josiah's proposal topped Ben's, and about home birth vs. hospital birth, but they have been conducted with respect. No snarky, sarcastic comments. Though I certainly HAVE seen such comments in other topics, I'm not sure why you chose this one to vent in.

I take it all back! I previously thought that Josiah looked stressed in his wedding photos because he was feeling burdened by being the grownup man in the relationship. These episodes show that its actually flipped. Lauren is very mature for her age. It's clear they are in love. I do worry that Lauren will grow weary of Josiah's high energy conversation over time (like Kendra disapproving of Joe's plate licking). I Hope it evolves into an equal relationship and not into one dominated by her expectations alone.

I like Josiah's simple proposal. The fact that it was Lauren's wish to keep it simple and Josiah fulfilling her dream made it even more special. Nice that they don't try and compete who has the most extravagant proposal :)

I enjoyed the way Josiah popped the question. Especially proposing where her father did. Josiah and Lauren are a great couple. Both are very sweet. Hopefully they take time in having babies to enjoy each other. Natasha B.

Thanks for leaving your comments! We answer as many of your questions as we can, but due to the number of comments we receive daily, we are unable to answer every one. Our aim is to post all points of view, but we do not post anything that is profane, insulting, derogatory, or in poor taste.

Translate This Blog

Welcome to the premiere source for factual, encouraging updates on Jim Bob & Michelle Duggar and their 19 kids (TLC's 19 Kids and Counting & Counting On). Our site is not maintained by the Duggars, but we (Lily and Ellie) are personal friends of the family.