"AYIYIYIYIYIYIYI!" - The XENA: WARRIOR PRINCESS Appreciation Thread -

Comments

I was just thinking about Xena the other day. Still one of my fave shows of all time. There's pretty much an episode for every mood you're in.
Personally my most watched are Sins of the Past, Return of Callisto, Here She Comes Miss Amphipolis, A Necessary Evil, The Furies, Been There Done That, The Bitter Suite, Adventures in the Sin Trade, In Sickness and in Hell, Paradise Found, Fallen Angel, The Haunting of Amphipolis, Heart of Darkness. Certainly a healthy mix of different themes, light and dark.

I managed to keep an interest in Hercules, out of appreciation for helping bring Xena to the air and because they shared the occasional storylines. For the first season, Xena was very similar, but it really came into its own with Callisto when they fully exploited Xena's past and showed that transforming into a hero wasn't going to be that easy. After that I think Xena took on its own life.
I've seen it described as a fun 'trash' show or guilty pleasure, which is a poor description because there is far too much care and importance taken with it to be classed as a throwaway. I liked the way it constantly challenged itself, like asking 'is killing other people for good really all that noble?' and 'if you do lead a peaceful life, what's to stop someone just coming along and killing you, is that really your reward for a passive life?' I actually liked it when Gabrielle fully embraced being a warrior and upgraded from the staff and that crappy powder stuff into the daggers, came just at the right time since Xena was pregnant. I liked short-haired action Gabrielle rather than innocent 'always judging you' Gabrielle.

I also loved how they treated religion. In Xena world they could incorporate numerous different faiths and mythologies, they were just a part of life depending on where they travelled to. And when you thought you knew what was what, they were suddenly delving into something else. I watched The Way yesterday as it was a controversial episode for its depiction of Indian mythology, despite it being done very respectfully. (I dread to think what problems people could dig up from the show now if they wanted to).
The finale is a mixed bag for me. While I appreciated the boldness of it, it was very depressing and a painful task you really didn't want to see. A happier ending probably would have been more satisfying.
I'm probably going to keep slipping in a rewatch of random episodes when I have the time.

I loved Xena but the one thing I wasn't overly keen on was... Gabrielle.
She was annoying at first but then she became alright once she got her footing but then she went full warrior Gabrielle and lost me again.
So for me the show was more about Xena and the other side characters. (Joxer and Autolocus and Salmonious and others)
So when it came to the time skip we lost all these other characters I had grown to love in a cheap tacky way sweep them under the carpet type way and was left with Xena and irritating warrior wannabe Gabrielle. The show just lost all it's charm for me then.

Very interesting Gabrielle i like overall but yeah ... I do feel she is divisive as a character i know loads of fans LOVE her like really... and she has great moments specifically in the comedy episodes and i ADORE her journey as a character...second to Willow from Buffy for me for character progression in 6 seasons ... from the bard/storyteller to amazonian role of queen and those tasks and mother to demon .... the entire rift (my favourite arc) but that was ONE character i loved the journey of.... the ambassador for peace/fighting without violence was so interesting too and then as protector and training up well to defend in the TWilight arc (another huge epic) then i think when producers were informed this may be the final season they did focus more on Xena and Gabrielle as a duo than previous 5 years...

BUT Season 6 i can honetly say is the only season where i love every episode.... i mean even my favourite overall seaosns 2,3 and 4 have filelrs i don't enjoy whereas I adore the time jump and Eve progression full circle, use of irgil, the Norse trilogy was epic etc and the Amazon stories were fantastic.... To Helicon and Back is one of my all time favourites in so many ways....

I know fans mostly see it as a Xena/Gaby relationship show but to me it was more than just those two... as you say all the characters had great journey's if they didn't it wouldn't be so exciting whenever they reappered.... it was amazing seeing Ephiny return or Minya, and of course Joxer, Ares, Aphrodite (Aphrodite and Gaby were a hilarious double act really) to name a few.....it was a incredible show that utilised a lot of operatic influences and Greek Fables and mythological tales to full advantage.

I was just thinking about Xena the other day. Still one of my fave shows of all time. There's pretty much an episode for every mood you're in.
Personally my most watched are Sins of the Past, Return of Callisto, Here She Comes Miss Amphipolis, A Necessary Evil, The Furies, Been There Done That, The Bitter Suite, Adventures in the Sin Trade, In Sickness and in Hell, Paradise Found, Fallen Angel, The Haunting of Amphipolis, Heart of Darkness. Certainly a healthy mix of different themes, light and dark.

I managed to keep an interest in Hercules, out of appreciation for helping bring Xena to the air and because they shared the occasional storylines. For the first season, Xena was very similar, but it really came into its own with Callisto when they fully exploited Xena's past and showed that transforming into a hero wasn't going to be that easy. After that I think Xena took on its own life.
I've seen it described as a fun 'trash' show or guilty pleasure, which is a poor description because there is far too much care and importance taken with it to be classed as a throwaway. I liked the way it constantly challenged itself, like asking 'is killing other people for good really all that noble?' and 'if you do lead a peaceful life, what's to stop someone just coming along and killing you, is that really your reward for a passive life?' I actually liked it when Gabrielle fully embraced being a warrior and upgraded from the staff and that crappy powder stuff into the daggers, came just at the right time since Xena was pregnant. I liked short-haired action Gabrielle rather than innocent 'always judging you' Gabrielle.

I also loved how they treated religion. In Xena world they could incorporate numerous different faiths and mythologies, they were just a part of life depending on where they travelled to. And when you thought you knew what was what, they were suddenly delving into something else. I watched The Way yesterday as it was a controversial episode for its depiction of Indian mythology, despite it being done very respectfully. (I dread to think what problems people could dig up from the show now if they wanted to).
The finale is a mixed bag for me. While I appreciated the boldness of it, it was very depressing and a painful task you really didn't want to see. A happier ending probably would have been more satisfying.
I'm probably going to keep slipping in a rewatch of random episodes when I have the time.

Speaking of Here She COmes Miss Amphipolis.....talk about PROGRESSIVE that episode aired in 1997 .... and featured drag racing essentially, a strong LGBTQ character, a great message about identity for our leads and support characters....very poignant and empowering story Xena doing a mainstream same sex/but not same sex kiss a good precursor to Madonna/Britney a mere few years later ;-) I am so for that....it is incredible really something written clearly at the time as something to fill the gap inbetween Return of Callisto/Intimate Stranger/Ten Little Warlords and the Destiny/Quest/Necessary Evil trilogies had just an impactful message as those epic stories.

There were things in Xena that few shows would be able to do today... i mean i get Game of Thrones it's popular etc etc but take away the grim melodrama and the icnest/over sexualisation of characters and what morals/lessons do we indirectly learn as well as intense drama? nothing as far as i am concerned.

THIS was epic... I mean as you say all these cultures spiritual, religious journey's the Debt two parter in China with Lao Ma was incredible (what a great actress she was too for a support character to make that much impact was beautiful) the whole Dahak/Apocalyptic horror story was incredible ... the Twilight of the Olympian Gods, the Norse mythology, the norther Amazons spirituality and occuls, the Indian stories...incredible

Probably because almost every show with a male lead, has a strong male lead character.

Well personally one may see it as that but I felt it were a natural progression .... I mean it was authentic and pure for the characters to take the roles. And I loved it.

ANd yes Xena Warrior Princess needs more credit for it's dues i mean Xena needs to be mentioned alongside and treated in similar light to Buffy as far as I am concerned whilst Buffy si my all time favourite show, Xena is right behind (mainy due to the filelrs in seaso n1 and the blatant ones for Lawless' maternity cover in eason 5 holding it back) but it was a sensational show and yes progressive in so many ways...

I liken the final two hour story A FRIEND IN NEED to David Lynch's TWIN PEAKS FIRE WALK WITH ME..... that had a similar and gets similar fan backlash and taken apart in big ways and criticism for what the creators did to the characters/narrative/dynamic yet it's incredible art for me.... i mean AFIN is devastating to watch even 18 years later this year.... it is traumatic, bold and one of the most melancholy and depressing finales ANY show has ever done but i find such beauty within it... I love that it is still discussed and analysed in the fandom.

ANd yes Xena Warrior Princess needs more credit for it's dues i mean Xena needs to be mentioned alongside and treated in similar light to Buffy as far as I am concerned whilst Buffy si my all time favourite show, Xena is right behind (mainy due to the filelrs in seaso n1 and the blatant ones for Lawless' maternity cover in eason 5 holding it back) but it was a sensational show and yes progressive in so many ways...

I used to get annoyed when the Sci Fi magazines I was reading were continually praising Buffy for its innovative mix of drama, comedy and action and it's unprecedented strong female characters and it's innovative idea of a completely musical episode when Xena had already done all of that!

As much as I loved the Buffy musical episode, The Bitter Suite knocks it out of the park. I still love listening to the sound track!

It's interesting how progressive Xena was and looking at the likes of Kevin Sorbo now it's hard to imagine such a progressive show came about as an off shoot with a right wing actor playing the lead of the original Hercules

I was going to mention Kevin Sorbo earlier but decided not to, but it was really disappointing to find out what a self-important so-and-so he is. He seems to approach his beliefs like it's a point-scoring mission over 'non-believers' and has the same kind of anger and defensiveness he accuses them of.
I didn't realize he'd slagged off Xena to such a degree. I remember Hudson Leick, when she played Callisto on Hercules, talking about him being a huge diva, constantly changing scenes to make himself look better. I kind of dismissed it as on-set disagreements, but I sympathize with her now. Based on how she talks about her time on either show, that was her only really unpleasant experience.

It's surprising that someone who played such an important figure in Greek mythology and must have gained a healthy amount of knowledge of other cultures isn't just a little more open-minded. You kind of hope that the actors take something away with them from a show like Hercules/Xena, but I guess not in his case.
Ending on a compliment, he must be a good actor because I find Hercules very likeable on-screen.

Hercules as a show and character Sorbo made really wholesome/fun/likeable... he was very much a Mickey Mouse style figure for people...Whereas Xena as a character and by nature her show was darker/crisper/innovative and boundry pushing.

Not saying HTLJ didn't have those moments... in fact it did have a few... and indeed some very homoerotic sequences... maybe just my eyes ;-) but yes Sorbo was a looker ....he was even great in Andromeda! The Robin Hood and Sinbad shows as well as Young Hercules were the child friendly shows and HTLJ was more family friendly whereas Xena was definitely aimed for teen/adult viewers.

And I think it is a sad thing when a hero of childhood goes and changes with backward views in time (he suffered a stroke didn't he? cannot have helped him at all) heck he even went on a rant against Madonna, Cher, Meryl Streep, etc at the female rally in 2017.....just bizarre .... absurd guy.

Anyway it is wonderful seeing how innovative and engaged Lawless/Conner and the cast got into the show i mean Callisto's Leick whilst sadly no longer acting (she is sensational) has taken a spiritual path which is wonderful to see. I think her character journey helped inspire that route though after season 5 of Xena she did cameo in several shows/films i think it helped find her ath that direction... and Lucy is frequently an activist for human rights, animal rights etc it's a true hero!

And earlier it was not a slight against Buffy... Buffy is my favourite show ever but i do think Xena needs more credit due I mean the stories the show inspired ... truly incredible Xena and Buffy were the Superman and Batman of my childhood/teens so i owe a lot to both shows...there's no show like them... But yes Bitter Suite was a masterpiece... the irony being after that episode aired Whedon was penning a season 4 Buffy musical but GENIUS changed it to a silent episode HUSH instead (which resulted in one of the scariest and most innovative stories ever so definitely great move there) but agreed Xena was the first to do a full blown musical, and the first to truly blur genres and sub genres in the weekly basis.

Quite a lot of shows have strong lead females as well and have had many for decades. But for some reason, people seem to think it's a rare thing.

Sadly the emphasis is always with strong male leads and heroes a lot... well not sadly but ya know.

I feel it was definitely a great revitalisation and pioneering era in the 90s with real strong iconic female lead fantasy shows .... I mean without Xena and the likes of Buffy, X Files, Voyager... and indeed Charmed, ALIAS,Dark Angel and in the 80s Sigourney Weaver giving us Ellen Ripley and Linda Hamilton giving us Sarah Connor.

I am truly in awe of what we had and why i feel a Xena reboot today would never ever work.... and why i would adore it to be put on streaming maybe for it's 25th anniversary year?

Quite a lot of shows have strong lead females as well and have had many for decades. But for some reason, people seem to think it's a rare thing.

Sadly the emphasis is always with strong male leads and heroes a lot... well not sadly but ya know.

I feel it was definitely a great revitalisation and pioneering era in the 90s with real strong iconic female lead fantasy shows .... I mean without Xena and the likes of Buffy, X Files, Voyager... and indeed Charmed, ALIAS,Dark Angel and in the 80s Sigourney Weaver giving us Ellen Ripley and Linda Hamilton giving us Sarah Connor.

I am truly in awe of what we had and why i feel a Xena reboot today would never ever work.... and why i would adore it to be put on streaming maybe for it's 25th anniversary year?

Back in my day it was Charlies' Angels, the Bionic Woman, Wonder Woman. Cagney and Lacey..

I never noticed a lack of strong female protagonists.

Noteable examples for sure and very obvious influences maybe for where TV shifted in the 90s ... But it is interesting to note really that those shows very much were popular but seemed to be having stories and narratives "realistic" for female lead shows if that makes sense.... but still I would say whilst Charlie's Angels played up the campy fare they still had quite compelling crime stories to face... and Bioic Woman much like Xena I would say was a stronger show as a spin off than it's parent show... and Wonder Woman inspired a generation of young minds for years to the point where it took 40 years to find a genuine replacement in the role.

Probably because almost every show with a male lead, has a strong male lead character.

Well personally one may see it as that but I felt it were a natural progression .... I mean it was authentic and pure for the characters to take the roles. And I loved it.

ANd yes Xena Warrior Princess needs more credit for it's dues i mean Xena needs to be mentioned alongside and treated in similar light to Buffy as far as I am concerned whilst Buffy si my all time favourite show, Xena is right behind (mainy due to the filelrs in seaso n1 and the blatant ones for Lawless' maternity cover in eason 5 holding it back) but it was a sensational show and yes progressive in so many ways...

I liken the final two hour story A FRIEND IN NEED to David Lynch's TWIN PEAKS FIRE WALK WITH ME..... that had a similar and gets similar fan backlash and taken apart in big ways and criticism for what the creators did to the characters/narrative/dynamic yet it's incredible art for me.... i mean AFIN is devastating to watch even 18 years later this year.... it is traumatic, bold and one of the most melancholy and depressing finales ANY show has ever done but i find such beauty within it... I love that it is still discussed and analysed in the fandom.

For me, natural progression would’ve been them making it official. Sure, their relationship was heavily hinted at and we even had a female love rival towards the end (Brunhilda), but it was never official in the show. The characters did everything but confirm they were together. It felt like strong queer baiting. I think the writers wanted to pull in the gay crowd, but didn’t want to alienate Ares/Xena fans.

We have something in common though. Buffy and Xena are 2 of my favourite shows and I agree that Xena needs more credit.

I think one of the reasons why Xena gets less credit is ,because it isn't shown on tv a lot and hasn't picked up new viewers due to the fact it doesn't seem to appear on streaming sites. Xena was one of the top shows of the '90s and yet here we are in 2019, and it's almost like a hidden gem. Shows like Buffy, X Files and Star Trek seem to pick up new fans with every new generation. Xena, sadly, not so much.

While they probably did play up Xena and Gabrielle's relationship because it was a big attraction to the show, I'm kind of glad they didn't put a label on it and kept it ambiguous so no one group could claim it for themselves. Even though labels can offer a sense of identity and belonging, people can be fiercely protective over them and it can lead to anger and rejection if others don't follow the same ideals.

While they probably did play up Xena and Gabrielle's relationship because it was a big attraction to the show, I'm kind of glad they didn't put a label on it and kept it ambiguous so no one group could claim it for themselves. Even though labels can offer a sense of identity and belonging, people can be fiercely protective over them and it can lead to anger and rejection if others don't follow the same ideals.

See, I actually think people are protective and angry over them, because they were never confirmed to be together in the show. People get pissed when their relationship is denied and others seem to get pissed, because they ship Xena/Ares.

The fact that it was “confirmed” they were a couple after the show ended, just makes me more annoyed.

I think one of the reasons why Xena gets less credit is ,because it isn't shown on tv a lot and hasn't picked up new viewers due to the fact it doesn't seem to appear on streaming sites. Xena was one of the top shows of the '90s and yet here we are in 2019, and it's almost like a hidden gem. Shows like Buffy, X Files and Star Trek seem to pick up new fans with every new generation. Xena, sadly, not so much.

It used to air on the horror channel and it recently aired on More4 (I think it was this channel), but I think the episodes were often aired in random order.

While they probably did play up Xena and Gabrielle's relationship because it was a big attraction to the show, I'm kind of glad they didn't put a label on it and kept it ambiguous so no one group could claim it for themselves. Even though labels can offer a sense of identity and belonging, people can be fiercely protective over them and it can lead to anger and rejection if others don't follow the same ideals.

See, I actually think people are protective and angry over them, because they were never confirmed to be together in the show. People get pissed when their relationship is denied and others seem to get pissed, because they ship Xena/Ares.

The fact that it was “confirmed” they were a couple after the show ended, just makes me more annoyed.

I think one of the reasons why Xena gets less credit is ,because it isn't shown on tv a lot and hasn't picked up new viewers due to the fact it doesn't seem to appear on streaming sites. Xena was one of the top shows of the '90s and yet here we are in 2019, and it's almost like a hidden gem. Shows like Buffy, X Files and Star Trek seem to pick up new fans with every new generation. Xena, sadly, not so much.

It used to air on the horror channel and it recently aired on More4 (I think it was this channel), but I think the episodes were often aired in random order.

I didn’t know it wasn’t available for streaming.

Xena recently has had re-runs on 4Music (as well as Sabrina the Teenage Witch, Supernatural reruns and Charmed reruns) So i would say Xena has maintained the CULT status just very edited for tv and yes random order.

and yes before that Xena and Hercules were of several shows rerun on the Horror Channel (Angel was also on the channel with repeats whereas Buffy was on FX repeats from what i remember.. .but i do not have sky so could be wrong)

Anyway....as for the relationshi;... they were ancient greeks... they invented fluid sexuality and I think everyone accepts now that Xena and Gabrielle were very much openly heterosexual but these two were soul mates .... as you say in The Ring trilogy we have Brunhilda who was infatuated with Gaby but it was not mutual because Gabrielle didn't love "women" but she lovedXena.....whereas Xena flirted with everything... much like ehr femme fatale persona of manipulation... to her anything goes...and didd go...it;s fascinating to see really.So as a younger viewer watching and now lookig back older I still love where they went with the characters... they didn't NEED to say...oh we are a same sex couple... they essentially were that from Sins of the Past.... or at least from episode 3 Dreamwalker onwardds as a duo of travellers.

With Buffy they studied relationships more closely whereas i think the Xena writers knew they could really appease everyone by keeping it all general... as they knew the beginning, middle and end for Xena and the same with Gabrielle they knew they wanted her to learn and go through life from bard to amazon to mother to murdered in defence to finding her inner peace to becoming a full time warrior queen....brilliant! honestly i think aside from Buffy and Xena being the title characters Willow and Gabrielle were the strongest ever characters arcs i have seen in any show.... to an extent 7 of 9 in oyager and Piper in Charmed (but those characters ended up victims of some truly shoddy writing in latter years which undoes a lo of the powerful energy from their character journey)

Funny enough was just playing the Bitter Suite Musical Odyssey soundtrack and it is so enchanting ... i mean that was done over 20 years ago and LoDuca's score and the vocals (particularly Lawless!) are spellbinding.....

side note- I do feel Lucy would have nailed a music career too er chants and songs on Xena were incredible that diction and clarity... haunting and beautiful.

there's been a lot of drama about Xena apparently being moved from Hulu...could Netflix be putting it on soon for streaming again? It was magic in 2015 when they celebrated 20 years of the show by putting it on there.

Would be excellent. I just ordered from ebay the Deluxe Edition box sets.... and they arrived and those artworks and photos used in the American box sets are so gorgeous and the dics what a treat to go through.... it is like buying for the very first time.

I miss when box sets used to be a huge event I have so many Xena, Buffy, X Files VHS and DVD sets... and then compared to a lot today they look plasticy and a bit slapped dashed together. Even shows like Game of Thrones, Walking Dead and DOctor Who (recently 2005-2011 had gorgeous box sets) big cult shows loo klike they haven't had much detail put in them and use publicity photos instead of artwork...bizarre.