Please read the chapter from the beginning. The Queen's main concern is the conduct of her royal son. The overall intended effect can be rephrased as follows: "You are a King with much responsibility, you cannot afford to take substances that have the potential to compromise your judgment; leave such substances for the masses who resort to such to relieve their anxieties." She is not advocating or permitting the use of alcohol for relief of anxiety, she is simply trying to draw a certain contrast aimed at alerting her son to the fact that he, in contrast to the masses, belongs to a royal class and that belonging to that class entails certain duties.

We use similar ways of speech even today. A mother in her pride might scold her young adolescent son, for example, for playing in the dirt and say something to the effect of, "You are a young man, you should not play in dirt; let the little babies play in the dirt for fun." She is not advocating or permitting that little babies play in the dirt for fun. Her point is clear--along the same vein as the point of Prov. 41:6 as I have just explained it.

« Last Edit: August 25, 2009, 11:38:48 AM by EkhristosAnesti »

Logged

No longer an active member of this forum. Sincerest apologies to anyone who has taken offence to anything posted in youthful ignorance or negligence prior to my leaving this forum - October, 2012.

"Philosophy is the imitation by a man of what is better, according to what is possible" - St Severus

Okay folks, please let's not argue about alcohol. I am acutely aware of the dangers of taking up drinking, I have considered it, it is true, because the emotional pain is so intense my body hurts from it, but I have seen far too many people's lives ravaged by it. I have witnessed men-alcoholics dead in the snow of winter, I have seen them being struck and killed as they attempt to cross the highway, I have seen them staggering along the streets on the way to the grocer's, I see them even here in my own city, sitting on the street in squalor, begging for money, and so I know I must avoid it at all costs. So please drop the discussion about alcohol for now. I am not, I hope, going to try it, even though I have nothing against an occasional glass of wine etc.

I am sorry that the subject continues in this thread Rosehip. But I cannot be silent at the continued attempt to justify the dangerous behaviour being advocated. I am glad you are not inclined to resort to alcohol as a means of dealing with your difficult situation. But I would hate for any other reader to be swayed by such suggestions, particularly given that Scripture has been brought into the discussion. Hopefully the moderators can make another due split so that the thread does not further digress. My sincrest apologies to you for the disturbance.

Logged

No longer an active member of this forum. Sincerest apologies to anyone who has taken offence to anything posted in youthful ignorance or negligence prior to my leaving this forum - October, 2012.

"Philosophy is the imitation by a man of what is better, according to what is possible" - St Severus

No, context is not a concept that bothers me. I am more than willing to learn; I am willing to love and respect others. I try very hard not to judge the intentions and the hearts of others - all thanks to Christ Jesus, no thanks to a pathetic sinner like me..

What are your thoughts regarding the following statement? I am not a fan of "Got Questions?", these days. However, I think they have a very good point regarding alcohol. I would say alcohol is clearly permitted. RE: Proverbs; I would say, alcohol is permitted, well, at least in desperation and poverty. My point is, alcohol can be a gift from God, when "used" properly.

What God commands Christians regarding alcohol is to avoid drunkenness (Ephesians 5:18). The Bible condemns drunkenness and its effects (Proverbs 23:29-35). Christians are also commanded to not allow their bodies to be “mastered” by anything (1 Corinthians 6:12; 2 Peter 2:19). Drinking alcohol in excess is undeniably addictive.

Jesus changed water into wine. It even seems that Jesus drank wine on occasion (John 2:1-11; Matthew 26:29). Again, Scripture does not forbid Christians from drinking beer, wine, or any other drink containing alcohol. Alcohol is not, in and of itself, tainted by sin. It is drunkenness and addiction to alcohol that a Christian must absolutely refrain from (Ephesians 5:18; 1 Corinthians 6:12).

Alcohol, consumed in small quantities, is neither harmful nor addictive. In fact, some doctors advocate drinking small amounts of red wine for its health benefits, especially for the heart. Consumption of small quantities of alcohol is a matter of Christian freedom.

Of course i know you will say that i have nothing to say since I married young and have children. And i am sure you would think I am smug about my marriage and fertility as well. I am not saying this to make you feel like you should be happy to be unwed. I am very happy as a married woman and mother. I would like to point out that you are setting yourself up for disappointment. You have in your mind such a high view of what life will/would be like if you were married with children that there is no way that the real thing will ever live up to it. Marriage is wonderful but it won't solve all your problems. No man can fill the entire vacuum you feel. You should work on your faith as well. A wife and mother need a strong faith. Try to work on that in preparation for marriage and motherhood. That is the greatest gift you can give your children and husband. Marriage and motherhood won't strengthen your faith if it is already faltering.

Do you have any godchildren? Do they have a big sisters program there? You could direct some of your maternal instincts in that direction now while you are waiting to meet and marry. I can tell you have an enormous amount of love to give. And there are a lot of children out there that would love to receive it. I have worked with these types of children before I was married and before we had children. It isn't the same as being a parent. But these children really appreciate having a loving person in their lives to talk to and such.

Rosehip, May I ask if there are any cancer support groups near your area? The hospital I work for has several groups that get together about once a week to share their struggles with other people in similar situations. It's a valuable time for those who feel like no one understands what they're going through and since you've expressed a longing for emotional and physical contact, it might be a good avenue to pursue if you have the energy and time for it. I know it's not always practical to attend every meeting, especially when you're tired from the chemo treatments, but maybe it would be worth checking into so you don't feel quite so alone in this.

Logged

Human beings, who are almost unique in having the ability to learn from the experience of others, are also remarkable for their apparent disinclination to do so. -- Douglas Adams

please drop the discussion about alcohol for now. I am not, I hope, going to try it, even though I have nothing against an occasional glass of wine etc.

Great! I salute you for this. Folks, let's respect Rosehip's wish and maybe move the general alcohol-related discussion elsewhere?

Of course. Rosehip, I respect the fact that you don't drink alcohol. I realise you are a fully grown adult - we are all adults -therefore, you are aware of the negatives of alcohol. Anyway, Sis, I shall continue to pray for you. I am sure you are in the right hands: God, the Orthodox community and your Doctor/Medical Professionals.

I have attended support groups for different ailments although I stopped in 2008 when the support group introduced religion to my dislike.

Unless someone else provided the link in a past post, here is the following website for finding a Cancer support group in your area. Find the strength to attend one group and in these groups, you can remain anonymous until you feel comfortable with the attendees and the process.

A friend of mine, whose mother (Memory eternal) bravely battled lymphoma for years, said she and her family both received tremendous support from the Wellspring network.

« Last Edit: August 25, 2009, 07:02:18 PM by Nebelpfade »

Logged

As a result of a thousand million years of evolution, the universe is becoming conscious of itself, able to understand something of its past history and its possible future.-- Sir Julian Sorell Huxley FRS

Yes, I have visited Wellspring, Nebelpfade. I went there for yoga once and talked to someone. Everyone was very nice. But still support groups aren't the same as having a husband who loves and cares for you.

I'm tired of support groups and psychiatrists. I just want to get on with life and have someone with whom I can hold hands and who will be close to me.

I have 3 older sisters. 2 are married with children, while one is still single, and she had cancer as well. She had it in her lungs. She is 3 years older than I, so I kinda know about some of the pain you are going through.

I too wanted to get married in my 20's, but it never happened. I too wanted lots of children, but it never happened. I am 32 now, and I still want to get married and I still want my own kids, but I really don't know if that will ever happen.

I almost got married 7 years ago, and since then I only dated 3 people, who also wanted to get married and have a family. I broke up those relationships because certain things were really important to me. Certain "nonnegotiables", recently around Feb of 09, I broke up with a Roman Catholic woman who seemed to have it all. She was highly educated with a masters degree, physically she was extremely attractive, she had her own house, her family was well off, and she's the niece of a famous college football coach in Pennsylvania.

But I broke it off because I really wanted someone that wanted to go to church with me more than once a week. And she wasn't willing, and I knew I wouldn't be happy in that relationship, and I knew that she wouldn't be happy either.

So I am single, I am 32 and single, and sometimes I question myself if it was right to leave her, for most of my college and highschool friends are married, and so I feel like the odd ball out, at church I see alot of married people with kids running all over the place, and I see alot of married women at church with kids on the way, and so I think to myself......."was it right for me to break off that relationship"?

I believe it was right for I would rather be single then be married to someone that doesn't want to go to church with me......no matter how pretty and well off that person is.

There are 2 protestant women that I like and would love to marry, but it all comes down to "going to church with me". I know that such a thing would be difficult for them to do, and so the relationship really wouldn't work out. And one of them really wants to get married too. She is 36 now, and she talks about being a single African American woman alot. And I feel for her, and I hope that she finds a man too.

When I go to church conferences I look to see if there is a woman there that might be a possible match. I really really really want children, but I also know that we don't always get what we want, but sometimes, we do get what we need.

And so, I have to learn patience. It's hard, and I don't like it, but it is what it is. Until then, I have other things to worry about.....like my prayer life, fasting and other issues.

Jnorm888

« Last Edit: August 25, 2009, 08:40:52 PM by jnorm888 »

Logged

"loving one's enemies does not mean loving wickedness, ungodliness, adultery, or theft. Rather, it means loving the theif, the ungodly, and the adulterer." Clement of Alexandria 195 A.D.

Since you are a man it doesn't matter so very much how old you are when it comes to having children. It's not like being a woman where after a certain age or being exposed to some dreadful cancer treatment you are robbed of all hopes. Maybe you should lower your expectations a bit too. For instance, I have no university education whatsoever, but I consider myself a cultured, refined person of grace and nobility. I was born to very well-educated parents. As fate would have it, I was not permitted to pursue an education, and so I threw myself into becoming the wife of a man's dreams. Many of these people with degrees I've discovered are very dull and conventional and nothing special in the least. That's been my experience. What I am trying to say is that there may be a very uneducated but loving, godly, and cultured woman for you...

I do not own a house (!) and I'm 40 years old. Help-I sure hope the men aren't expecting that of me too-no wonder no one ever wants to be with me, if that is what they are expecting from a woman!! I would think that would be more the male department-and even then, I would never demand it of a man-neither would I demand a degree from him. Only that he is a loving, faithful, loyal human being who is curious about art, culture, books etc.

Please pray for me again. I' m going through some really hard times again. I am so weary, so weary, of trying to be good enough for a man. But I am really tired of being alone in life. Life has been so hard, with going through so many losses with cancer-it's just been one horrifying loss after the next. I really long for companionship, comfort, love, someone who truly cares, someone whose hand I can hold,someone whose shoulder I can lean upon. I just thought I had met possibly such a man, and was really looking forward to meeting him, but he wrote me to tell me he's already found another woman, only a week after putting up his profile. I am nearly grief-stricken and don't know how much longer I can endure such terrible disappointments, especially in my already weakened, and severely demoralized state. I've been having to make myself ill looking for love and these divorced men repeatedly, almost instantly, find a new partner, while I remain alone, so terribly alone decade in and decade out.

Please please pray for me. Please pray that I will be deemed worthy of the love I've waited so dreadfully long to experience. It would be such a relief, such a blessing, I would appreciate it so much, so much. Please, please pray that I will be worthy, be good enough not to have to continue so alone and forsaken in life. Please pray some good, decent, caring man will notice me, will not reject me yet again for someone else. Please, please, please. Please pray that I too will have a chance to love and be loved.

Lord, have mercy on Rosehip!

If I can add something to the advice that's already been given to you, I think it might be a good idea if you found a new hobby, or found a new way of engaging one you already have. Some people have mentioned cancer support groups, and I agree that it's a very good idea. You also might find it helpful to concentrate on something that doesn't pertain to things that are troubling you. Join a book club, or take a college course, or plant a garden, anything that you would like and be able to share as a common interest with other people. God is fashioning you into something beautiful. Don't let scuzzball Orthodox men get you down.

Logged

He spoke it as kindly and heartily as could be; as if a man dashed a gallon of cold water in your broth and never doubted you'd like it all the better.

Since you are a man it doesn't matter so very much how old you are when it comes to having children. It's not like being a woman where after a certain age or being exposed to some dreadful cancer treatment you are robbed of all hopes. Maybe you should lower your expectations a bit too. For instance, I have no university education whatsoever, but I consider myself a cultured, refined person of grace and nobility. I was born to very well-educated parents. As fate would have it, I was not permitted to pursue an education, and so I threw myself into becoming the wife of a man's dreams. Many of these people with degrees I've discovered are very dull and conventional and nothing special in the least. That's been my experience. What I am trying to say is that there may be a very uneducated but loving, godly, and cultured woman for you...

I do not own a house (!) and I'm 40 years old. Help-I sure hope the men aren't expecting that of me too-no wonder no one ever wants to be with me, if that is what they are expecting from a woman!! I would think that would be more the male department-and even then, I would never demand it of a man-neither would I demand a degree from him. Only that he is a loving, faithful, loyal human being who is curious about art, culture, books etc.

I never really wrote about my standards, she just happened to have those things, but I really don't care about those things as much as I do about things of faith. She had everything, except for what I really wanted. She was a nominal Roman Catholic, I eventually found that out latter as I got to know her more. So everything she had meant nothing to me for she didn't want to go to church with me, and that's what I wanted the most.

But education isn't really a high standard of mine.

This is my own personal list:

Things I can't compromise on

1.) First thing first, someone I am theologically compatible with.

2.) There has to be some physical, spiritual, mental, and social attraction.

3.) Able to produce children, and wants to have children (there are alot of women I met that don't want kids, instead they want to work all the time and advance in their career life, which isn't wrong, it's just in conflict with what I really want in life)

4.) Must not of been married before while ex-husband is still living (There are alot of fine sistas I overlook because of this, and I mean fine. I get more upset at the men that let them go. You gotta hold on to something like that)

5.) Must trust and respect me (alot of women love to gossip and tell what I tell them to their friends and parents(mom). I hate this, so trust and respect is very very important to me)

These are my non negotiables, everything else is negotiable.

Everything else like,

Things I can compromise on

1.) Education

2.) Do you already have children

3.) Economics

4.) Status/class

5.) Different taste in music

6.) Race/Ethnic group

7.) Whether or not family and friends like her or not

.........ect.

Jnorm888

Logged

"loving one's enemies does not mean loving wickedness, ungodliness, adultery, or theft. Rather, it means loving the theif, the ungodly, and the adulterer." Clement of Alexandria 195 A.D.

#3 -saying they have to be able to produce children is ridiculous. Adoption is always an option. My brother in law is incapable of having children and he is in his mid-twenties. Desire to have children is an entirely separate issue from the ability to PRODUCE children, thats sounds very Henry VIII.

I know that life has not worked out as you had hoped it would, but I would encourage you to not fall into despair. For our Lord God knows the needs of your heart, and He knows that there is a right person out there for you. When you two shall meet, I do not know. What I do know is this: although you are without a spouse, there is much joy to be experienced in life today.

Reach out to friends, family, parishoners, and people around you to experience that joy. Whether it be through a support group or a volunteer opportunity, surround yourself with people, and try to keep yourself busy.

In order to find happiness with another, you must be happy with yourself first. No one can make you happy, as happiness is a choice.

I know of a couple in a local Orthodox parish that did not meet until they were 48. They were married at 50 and adopted an adorable little girl from Russia. They are in the process of adopting a second child, and are very happy.

I know of another woman who just got married for the first time at 56. Her husband is a widower with two teenage boys.

So you see, marriage and motherhood can come at any age (and in different ways.) But happiness is something that you can have today.

Try volunteering with different organizations or maybe taking up a class in a topic that interests you. Now that autumn is here, a lot of communities have adult education programs in the evenings in all sorts of interesting topics. They are usually very reasonable in price.

This would be a great way for you to get out of the house, meet new people, and potentially meet your "Mr. Right." Afterall, what better way to meet someone who shares the same interests as you, as doing something that you're interested in?!

Volunteering is another great way to meet people. Find a cause that you are passionate about and volunteer your time.

If you like animals, owning a dog is a great way to meet people, as people approach dog owners all the time when they are out walking their dog.

I pray God bless you and comfort you, and bring you the joy that you seek.

In XC,

Maureen

Logged

"For I know the thoughts that I think toward you, says the LORD, thoughts of peace and not of evil, to give you a future and a hope." Jer 29:11

#3 -saying they have to be able to produce children is ridiculous. Adoption is always an option. My brother in law is incapable of having children and he is in his mid-twenties. Desire to have children is an entirely separate issue from the ability to PRODUCE children, thats sounds very Henry VIII.

It also makes a woman's womb sound like a widget factory.

Should the kids come out with a "Made in the U.S.A." tag on the back?

Logged

"For I know the thoughts that I think toward you, says the LORD, thoughts of peace and not of evil, to give you a future and a hope." Jer 29:11

Yes, I think we must always remember that children are a gift from God. Some men are unable to have children too, as Quinault mentioned. And as she also mentioned, there is nothing wrong with adoption-what a noble and beautiful way to give a child a happy, secure home and chance in life!