The argument that pures can switch specs depending on the encounter would feel more justified if it weren't such a hassle and investment to swap gear (I'm thinking of mages in particular). I do feel that hybrid classes should have everything in their toolkit to be able to handle every situation since it is their only dps spec available to them. however, while having the tools does not mean that they will be the best at every kind of encounter. Shadow is missing tools and feels incomplete with the shadow orbs.

Shadow needs something to identify itself away from Affliction as they had everything shadow had to offer (dps-wise) and better all expansion.

The argument that pures can switch specs depending on the encounter would feel more justified if it weren't such a hassle and investment to swap gear (I'm thinking of mages in particular). I do feel that hybrid classes should have everything in their toolkit to be able to handle every situation since it is their only dps spec available to them. however, while having the tools does not mean that they will be the best at every kind of encounter. Shadow is missing tools and feels incomplete with the shadow orbs.

Shadow needs something to identify itself away from Affliction as they had everything shadow had to offer (dps-wise) and better all expansion.

The argument that swapping gear and reforges and gems, because priorities shift between pure specs - is equally true for hybrids depending on fight types.

Combat Rogues prefer different stats than Assassination rogues - but Shadow also prefers different stats depending on AoE fights - talent choices - and our role in the encounter. For example, where burst AOE damage is a critical factor in the encounter (a wave of adds which must die ASAP) - Halo becomes a predominant part of our DPS for the critical component of the fight - Halo gains 0 from both haste and mastery so the only stat that truly matters for getting that progression kill - is Critical strike rating - a few lucky crits on that wave can decimate those adds, while doing better damage during the downtime between that mechanic is pretty useless.

For patchwerks (or any fight with a single target burn phase that is important, which is lots of them - not just Jugg/Malkorok) - the important stat for standing and burning something is almost always haste to the GCD cap (18100) - because it determines both how fast we can put out spells, and how many dot ticks / MF ticks / insanity ticks we can fit between recasts or into a devouring plague. Haste also creates a further multiplicative gain with Power Infusion during these same single target burn bosses.

For fights where survival is the name of the game, running a high mastery build can up our DI proc rate - which feeds us greater DP uptime, and better self-healing - which is very important for removing ourselves from the healing requirement of the fight the way our competitors do (warlocks, who are immune to all raid damage). Our talents, the fight genre, and our role in our comp and the encounter - determine just as much as a pure spec swap - what stats are ideal for hybrids.

So, I think that argument needs to be laid to rest in Cataclysm - if not MoP - now that it is surely dead (it was always true, but the MoP talent trees have hammered it home).

1st patch everyone is going to be playing something else because of MOP Shadow roller coaster. Blizzard realizes there is a problem and buffs Spriest again. A bunch of people return to their beloved Spriest because it isn't a bag of dicks anymore. People complain about Spriest, we get nerfed and are right back to square one.

I'm onto you Blizzard

Its more like they will give us a buff and slightly nerf something at the same time to compensate for the buff. Then they will just take away our buff while leaving the nerf in place.

Nope, switched my main to a lock, I don't like the state of SP or where its going. Like others have said, we don't know exactly when WoD hits what SP will be like, but I really don't think its going to get better.

Yes, been using my Shadow Priest as a main since I started in TBC and will still main her until the end of WoW!
I like the feeling of that holy figure using the darkness to bring down the enemies, yet still stay true to their faction.
I would like more spec specific spells like how someone else mentioned in a different thread to change Power Word: Shield into Shadow Word: Shield I believe. Making it 50% weaker but deal 200% of the amount absorb in AoE. Besides that, I like how everything is for the Shadow Priest when it comes to spells currently.

you are either a shadow priest or you are not ….. 'you make lemonade' with shadow, thats the way its been since BC anyway.(not a dot class or real dps at all)
Sure they beat us around the face with a nerfbat all expansion….. kinda…. but shadow is still good.
It seems to me that there are people who play classes better than others. I do a good deal of Pvp as well as raid and I have nothing to be ashamed of with my DPS or damage. I snap horde necks and hold right at the top of meters in raids.
Its not as bad as some of you are making it seem but I know its easier to complain than learn or adapt. How dare they change it? OMG! My precious!
If you're thinking of leaving the class because you can't change with the times.. you may find it difficult playing any classes well.
Change.. not just something you hopefully do with your panties. Shadow For Life!

I acctually hate it. But since my priest were my main and my guild kind of forced me to dps and i were good at it, I had no choice. And so I became attached to her that way.. I dont know :/ I dont understand who chooses shadow priest willingly. But its my only main T_T and will most likely always be. I wanna change but i kind of cant cuz im so attached D: We have so many memories and achievements

As a 9+ yr shadow priest I've seen it all... from the 1 mana battery raids to holy shit SP dps is retarded /nerfbat... I doubt I will give up shadow ever, even though my mage/lock with 10 less Ilvl's do more dps. Then Again, I think my wow days are coming to an end too. I'm finding it harder and harder to log in, and even more so to farm the same old Heroic content over and over each week. With WoD suspected to be 20+ weeks away, It doesn't look good.

"You take 4,994,468 boredom damage from daily quests.... You have died."

To me it seems that many people who lived through the days of vanilla and BC have more staying power when it comes to shadow not performing with locks. We've been through the times when shadow wasn't even considered viable in progression content, through early BC where the frozen shadowcloth set really kept us top of the line until BT, where our we fueled our healers and arcane mages and warlocks with infinite mana, and buffed warlock damage by 15% as well as provided the necessary mass dispels to survive for Felmyst and Muru.

I dunno, I just seem to see that any priest who started in wrath or later just can't take being told you can't compete at high end... even though when most people complain about 'high end' you're talking about the top 5-6% of the game's population. Shadow is competitive when you're talking 2-3 heroic and under in progression. And even if you look at raidbots, the span of average dps is about 80k between all specs. Yes, shadow is near the bottom on many, but its still within 12% of the average. One has to also consider how gear is distributed in high end guilds and how that may skew those results. If, on average, gear is fed to what's considered the highest dps class, that would probably mean locks are getting geared faster than shadowpriests, which would only widen the gap on raidbots.

To me it seems that many people who lived through the days of vanilla and BC have more staying power when it comes to shadow not performing with locks. We've been through the times when shadow wasn't even considered viable in progression content, through early BC where the frozen shadowcloth set really kept us top of the line until BT, where our we fueled our healers and arcane mages and warlocks with infinite mana, and buffed warlock damage by 15% as well as provided the necessary mass dispels to survive for Felmyst and Muru.

You mean the FOTM Cata rerollers are gone. Personally, I wish I did play Shadow back in TBC. I like that hybrid role. Everyone's brought for a reason and it doesn't have to be only for damage. It can be frustrating at times though. And do you really feel proud when you're taken in but you know you're a mediocre warlock? Are you happy being brought for Bloodlust only?

I dunno, I just seem to see that any priest who started in wrath or later just can't take being told you can't compete at high end... even though when most people complain about 'high end' you're talking about the top 5-6% of the game's population. Shadow is competitive when you're talking 2-3 heroic and under in progression. And even if you look at raidbots, the span of average dps is about 80k between all specs. Yes, shadow is near the bottom on many, but its still within 12% of the average. One has to also consider how gear is distributed in high end guilds and how that may skew those results. If, on average, gear is fed to what's considered the highest dps class, that would probably mean locks are getting geared faster than shadowpriests, which would only widen the gap on raidbots.

The warlock outgears the fights earlier than the shadow priest. Non-top guilds can gear up everyone equally (and who's to say the lock won't leave since they're in high demand?). Raidbots says fuck all. I gladly let some guys in my guild rank while I focus my firepower -without padding- on high prio targets. As long as we one shot it I don't care, and I don't care about rankings either because I know I'll have to pad the entire fight, and get good procs. In fact I am aware of a skewed ranking on WoL which has been up since half november and they simply don't remove this log. These people have been rank #1 on this fight forever. I can't take WoL rankings serious because the more I look into it the more idiotic things I see. It baffles me when others do take it serious. I do use WoL, as it is a very useful tool to look into details but not for the raw numbers of total blabla done. I use it for stuff such as damage done on high prio targets after a wipe, unnecessary damage taken, see if/when CDs are used, check out amount of MBs, and so on.

If blizzard takes that away every retard in the world will do a close up performance to a top shadowpriest with same gear.

Apparently that is the goal. On one hand we'll be easier to balance because there won't be huge outliers due to miraculous RNG (what they see right now in top 100 parses), on the other hand, it'll be boring as hell.

Right now I'm practicing rolling my face on the keyboard with my hunter, just in case.

To me it seems that many people who lived through the days of vanilla and BC have more staying power when it comes to shadow not performing with locks. We've been through the times when shadow wasn't even considered viable in progression content, through early BC where the frozen shadowcloth set really kept us top of the line until BT, where our we fueled our healers and arcane mages and warlocks with infinite mana, and buffed warlock damage by 15% as well as provided the necessary mass dispels to survive for Felmyst and Muru.

I dunno, I just seem to see that any priest who started in wrath or later just can't take being told you can't compete at high end... even though when most people complain about 'high end' you're talking about the top 5-6% of the game's population. Shadow is competitive when you're talking 2-3 heroic and under in progression. And even if you look at raidbots, the span of average dps is about 80k between all specs. Yes, shadow is near the bottom on many, but its still within 12% of the average. One has to also consider how gear is distributed in high end guilds and how that may skew those results. If, on average, gear is fed to what's considered the highest dps class, that would probably mean locks are getting geared faster than shadowpriests, which would only widen the gap on raidbots.

I was Holy in Vanilla, Shadow from TBC until now. In TBC we had very powerful and unique utility. What unique and valuable utility do we offer now that compensates for our mediocre performance in PvE and our absolutely dreadful state in PvP?

It was late TBC when GC et al started banging on about "bring the player, not the class". The game and its classes have been changed in accordance with this ethos. GC has been criticised for prioritising homogeneity over and above everything else. OK, well in which case, whey do they keep getting it so wrong?

Are you genuinely saying you find the current state of Shadow in PvP acceptable?

There's a bit too much "shadow 'til I die" in this thread. Yes, we all love shadow but, no, class balance in this ex-pac (PvE & PvP) has not been well handled. That's undeniable.

Dismissing this by asserting:

a) you shouldn't be pissed off unless you played Shadow in Vanilla / TBC
b) you shouldn't be pissed off unless you're in an advanced heroic raiding guild

Yes, we all love shadow but, no, class balance in this ex-pac (PvE & PvP) has not been well handled. That's undeniable.

How do we quality that though? By looking at the sheer numbers? Hunters have been bad from DS till last wednesday with the exception of T14. My problem with class balance in an expansion (or on a little bit grander scale because you can't just simply ignore the previous in the context) isn't that one class is sometimes good in a tier and another bad. My problem isn't a class is good on some fights and bad on others. My problem is that mages and warlocks, who share almost all the gear w/us, are amazing and better than me on almost every single fight in this entire tier. On top of that locks also provide amazing utility.

We lost a lot of utility throughout MoP that is for sure. If someone would make an in depth analysis summing up what we gained and lost including how useful the utility really is in raiding my gut feeling tells me we're on a net loss. But only an in depth analysis can prove such a point. Such an analysis should even include how we once were the only class in game with a 90% damage decrease, and how we were one of the two unique classes with 15% less damage taken. One utility we did not gain in SoO but has been incredibly useful though, is Spectral Guise, which shares the same cooldown as Feign Death. No other class, other than hunter, is able to ignore certain mechanics as much as priest. But is that better or worse than 15% damage reduction? How can we ever reach an agreement on such?

I'm up for writing such an analysis, together with others. Think a short version of warlocks in Cataclysm.

If i keep playing in WoD, it will be as a Shadow Priest.
That said, with all the changes to haste break points and dot-snapshoting, and rumors of a viable DoT-less spec; WoD is looking pretty damn awful.

To be honest, nearly every change to shadow since ICC has been for the worse.