were the most objective, except for perhaps "naturalism." I preferred "teleology" to "creationism" because I would have classed anything by Gish, say, as "Creationism (Teleology)", thus providing the link between ID and creationism while distinguishing that they are two agendas.

I also preferred "religion and science" to just "science." I came across a blog by a librarian who groused that, since creationist/IDist books were "about science" he felt forced to class them as "science," and I disagreed.

As a librarian, I am trying to be objective. I am not a cataloger, but if I were, it would be my job to help the patron find what s/he is looking for, esp. in a public library, without making judgements about why they are looking for it. Therefore, I would not just classify these books as "religion," but to completely exclude religion from the subject headings would also be inaccurate and serve another agenda.

Library catalogs are stodgy, anyway! I am all for adding reader's reviews and tags, but nothing beats the flexibility of Amazon, I am sorry to say.

--------------Which came first: the shimmy, or the hip?

AtBC Poet Laureate

"I happen to think that this prerequisite criterion of empirical evidence is itself not empirical." - Clive

were the most objective, except for perhaps "naturalism." I preferred "teleology" to "creationism" because I would have classed anything by Gish, say, as "Creationism (Teleology)", thus providing the link between ID and creationism while distinguishing that they are two agendas.

I also preferred "religion and science" to just "science." I came across a blog by a librarian who groused that, since creationist/IDist books were "about science" he felt forced to class them as "science," and I disagreed.

As a librarian, I am trying to be objective. I am not a cataloger, but if I were, it would be my job to help the patron find what s/he is looking for, esp. in a public library, without making judgements about why they are looking for it. Therefore, I would not just classify these books as "religion," but to completely exclude religion from the subject headings would also be inaccurate and serve another agenda.

Library catalogs are stodgy, anyway! I am all for adding reader's reviews and tags, but nothing beats the flexibility of Amazon, I am sorry to say.

Kristine, what would you think of religion versus science instead of religion and science? I can see where that could cause problems but I'm just curious as to what you think.

--------------Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword. - Jesus in Matthew 10:34

But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me. -Jesus in Luke 19:27

So, back to the kid's college discussion. Life sucks when you're poor. He would kill to go to Full Sail or Yingling down in Florida, but we're looking at about $100,000 tuition that would put him in debt in a bad economy for who knows how long. Sad, because he is very talented in art. He was at a state wide competition yesterday and won a lot of awards with his concepts. Not bragging, just saying it sucks when you're poor and your kid has the talent.

We'll look at scholarships and financial aid of course, but I doubt it will make much of a dent.

Looks like he'll be starting out at Washburn, because it looks to have the best art/animation department in the state. Sad, because I don't think it will challenge him at all...he's already talked with the head of the department and there are things he can learn of course, but would be sooo much ahead at those other colleges.

Sucks...taking a loan that huge may put you in debt forever when you're just starting your life. Too many risks. grrrr...frustrating as all hell.

--------------"Evolution is a creationism and just as illogical [as] the other pantheistic creation myths" -forastero

So, back to the kid's college discussion. †Life sucks when you're poor. †He would kill to go to Full Sail or Yingling down in Florida, but we're looking at about $100,000 tuition that would put him in debt in a bad economy for who knows how long. †Sad, because he is very talented in art. †He was at a state wide competition yesterday and won a lot of awards with his concepts. †Not bragging, just saying it sucks when you're poor and your kid has the talent. †

We'll look at scholarships and financial aid of course, but I doubt it will make much of a dent. †

Looks like he'll be starting out at Washburn, because it looks to have the best art/animation department in the state. †Sad, because I don't think it will challenge him at all...he's already talked with the head of the department and there are things he can learn of course, but would be sooo much ahead at those other colleges.

Sucks...taking a loan that huge may put you in debt forever when you're just starting your life. †Too many risks. †grrrr...frustrating as all hell.

And yet, if I recall correctly, you're planning on voting for the guy who suggests that your kid borrow money from you to go to college.

Art is tough... any art. And Full Sail is not accredited. Which means that they don't actually have to educate your kid in order to take his money.

Oh and the economy is picking up pretty well. Three schools around here are hiring new art teachers.

--------------Ignored by those who can't provide evidence for their claims.

Hmmm. Says it's nationally accredited I thought. Supposedly Full Sail and Ringling are two of the top animation universities in the country. Oh well, can't afford it anyway.

Oh, and I've told him numerous times to get his teaching degree in there somewhere.

Yes, art is not the way to go in this economy, but wth do you do when that's where all your talent lies and your obsessed with it? We've already learned the hard way with his Dad's career path that the economy can destroy your dreams, but whatever.

So many decisions.

--------------"Evolution is a creationism and just as illogical [as] the other pantheistic creation myths" -forastero

???? How the hell would he pick up a good job doing 3D computer animation without a degree from a top notch school? He's not wanting to settle for crap....he's totally motivated to get into 3D animation...film or game, etc. I don't know if he can to it, but he does have the dedication and the drive. He's top in his AP class...school of 1,750, which means nothing in the big world, but still I'd like to see him get a chance at his dream some way.

Here's a question...getting a website to display his stuff. He has basically no time right now to set anything up because he's bogged down with school and art projects & competitions that have him putting in hours before & after school and often missing lunch.

What are the best type of on line websites to use for displaying his ar? Somewhere he could just upload his art and information so he would have it at his fingertips when discussing his work. I see tons of website builders on line, but are any of you familiar with them and which ones are more user friendly for our needs?

--------------"Evolution is a creationism and just as illogical [as] the other pantheistic creation myths" -forastero

Hmmm. †Says it's nationally accredited I thought. †Supposedly Full Sail and Ringling are two of the top animation universities in the country. †Oh well, can't afford it anyway. †

Oh, and I've told him numerous times to get his teaching degree in there somewhere. †

Yes, art is not the way to go in this economy, but wth do you do when that's where all your talent lies and your obsessed with it? †We've already learned the hard way with his Dad's career path that the economy can destroy your dreams, but whatever. †

So many decisions.

There are only 6 accrediting agencies that mean anything. They are the 6 regional accrediting bodies. They will have a "region name", followed by "Association of Colleges and Schools".

Anyone can claim to be accredited. Unless it's one of those six it doesn't mean crap. The University of Phoenix has more 'accreditations' than the university I graduated from. Stilll, a regional accreditation is not one of them and degrees from University of Pheonix are not accepted by most actual universities. That also means that (like Full Sail), they can take your money and give you jack shit in return and no one will say anything about it.

If the boy goes to a school with regional accreditation, then if he lacks a skill that his school was supposed to provide (taking and passing a course in it, for example), then he can complain to the school and/or the accrediting body and the school MUST retrain him for free.

Besides, if he wants graduate school from an actual college or university, those degrees from Full Sail, University of Phoenix, etc don't mean jack shit. And I mean that literally. Even the crappy little commuter school I graduated from won't accept a bachelor's degree from UP for graduate school.

--------------Ignored by those who can't provide evidence for their claims.

There presently is a dearth of good art websites. Red bubble used to be quite good, and may still be a good fit for 3D style art. I personally think it was better a few years ago when it had a more robust abstract section.

Zazzle is not bad and he might even sell some of his designs as t-shirts or mugs.

There presently is a dearth of good art websites. †Red bubble used to be quite good, and may still be a good fit for 3D style art. †I personally think it was better a few years ago when it had a more robust abstract section.

Zazzle is not bad and he might even sell some of his designs as t-shirts or mugs. †

I have heard of Deviant Art but know very little about it.

Best of luck to him.

ty..will check it out.

--------------"Evolution is a creationism and just as illogical [as] the other pantheistic creation myths" -forastero

???? How the hell would he pick up a good job doing 3D computer animation without a degree from a top notch school? †He's not wanting to settle for crap....he's totally motivated to get into 3D animation...film or game, etc. †I don't know if he can to it, but he does have the dedication and the drive. †He's top in his AP class...school of 1,750, which means nothing in the big world, but still I'd like to see him get a chance at his dream some way.

Here's a question...getting a website to display his stuff. †He has basically no time right now to set anything up because he's bogged down with school and art projects & competitions that have him putting in hours before & after school and often missing lunch. †

What are the best type of on line websites to use for displaying his ar? †Somewhere he could just upload his art and information so he would have it at his fingertips when discussing his work. †I see tons of website builders on line, but are any of you familiar with them and which ones are more user friendly for our needs?

pinterest? it's connected to social media so there's the potential to have a wide audience quickly. hell, i dunno

i'm not very familiar with the art world, but my artist friends who have become successful pooh-pooh the notion that going to college has anything to do with making art. what might be better is doing an apprenticeship... but i s'pose going to college might help him network to land those sorts of gigs.

--------------You're obviously illiterate as hell.†Peach, bro.-FtK

Finding something hard to believe based on the evidence, is science.-JoeG

lol...the career he's wanting to go into there is no way he'd get a decent apprenticeship without a serious amount of education on 3D animation. Check out Full Sail's animation programs...freaking top notch.

--------------"Evolution is a creationism and just as illogical [as] the other pantheistic creation myths" -forastero

lol...the career he's wanting to go into there is no way he'd get a decent apprenticeship without a serious amount of education on 3D animation. †Check out Full Sail's animation programs...freaking top notch.

sigh... if you come to ask the experts, why don't you listen to them... oh wait... nevermind.

Academy of Art University - talk about top notch and it's accredited.

CalArts (California Institute of the Arts) - is the top ranked digital animation school by Disney and Pixar (the Pixar head went there). It's accredited.

Those are schools that actually provide internships at good places. Yes, they will be tough to get in.

Honestly though, at this point, if he hasn't actually created an animated short-film, then he's seriously behind. Same thing with programmers.

When I was a teacher, I had no shortage of high school students saying they were going to be game programmers. I asked them how many games they had built so far. Every time the answer was none. I asked how many programming languages they knew. Every time the answer was none. I told them that they better get on the stick because there were (and are) 8th graders who have published apps on the iPhone and a job won't even look at them until they have a serious portfolio of work.

I'm not trying to be discouraging. That's the way the world is. Right now, to do anything other than basic work in any field, you have to be seriously involved before high school. I mean, creating games, creating short films, doing science and engineering before you even get to college.

--------------Ignored by those who can't provide evidence for their claims.

lol...the career he's wanting to go into there is no way he'd get a decent apprenticeship without a serious amount of education on 3D animation. †Check out Full Sail's animation programs...freaking top notch.

sigh... if you come to ask the experts, why don't you listen to them... oh wait... nevermind.

Academy of Art University - talk about top notch and it's accredited.

CalArts (California Institute of the Arts) - is the top ranked digital animation school by Disney and Pixar (the Pixar head went there). †It's accredited.

Those are schools that actually provide internships at good places. †Yes, they will be tough to get in.

Honestly though, at this point, if he hasn't actually created an animated short-film, then he's seriously behind. †Same thing with programmers.

When I was a teacher, I had no shortage of high school students saying they were going to be game programmers. †I asked them how many games they had built so far. †Every time the answer was none. †I asked how many programming languages they knew. †Every time the answer was none. †I told them that they better get on the stick because there were (and are) 8th graders who have published apps on the iPhone and a job won't even look at them until they have a serious portfolio of work.

I'm not trying to be discouraging. †That's the way the world is. †Right now, to do anything other than basic work in any field, you have to be seriously involved before high school. †I mean, creating games, creating short films, doing science and engineering before you even get to college.

In addition: I don't want to suggest that financial aid is easy to find at the moment, but it's likely to be a whole lot easier if you're applying to a real college.

--------------Math is just a language of reality. Its a waste of time to know it. - Robert Byers

There isn't any probability that the letter d is in the word "mathematics"... ¬†The correct answer would be "not even 0" - JoeG

He's been teaching himself programs needed for the field he is interested in for years. He's created and sold his concepts in small venues. He's working on a 3D claymation short film in an independent study he's working on at school. His portfolio will have to include a 3D animation that he's already been working on concepts for.

He's talked to a head of 2 college art departments here in KS, and they said he is ahead of most students just entering their freshman year in as far as the things he's self taught himself, so I think we're on track to a degree. I'm not worried about that.

My main concern is the financial aspect and getting him to the right school without destroying him financially for the rest of his life. As well as getting into a school that will hopefully guarantee a decent job in the field.

Btw, his 3rd and 4th choices were CalArts and BYU, although he's been advised that the other two I mentioned have even more connections with Pixar/Disney, etc. than CA and BYU. Who the hell knows.

--------------"Evolution is a creationism and just as illogical [as] the other pantheistic creation myths" -forastero

Btw, his 3rd and 4th choices were CalArts and BYU, although he's been advised that the other two I mentioned have even more connections with Pixar/Disney, etc. than CA and BYU. †Who the hell knows.

I'm guessing people at Pixar/Disney would know. Get a name, write a letter, ask.

--------------"But it's disturbing to think someone actually thinks creationism -- having put it's hand on the hot stove every day for the last 400 years -- will get a different result tomorrow." -- midwifetoad

lol...the career he's wanting to go into there is no way he'd get a decent apprenticeship without a serious amount of education on 3D animation. †Check out Full Sail's animation programs...freaking top notch.

sigh... if you come to ask the experts, why don't you listen to them... oh wait... nevermind.

Academy of Art University - talk about top notch and it's accredited.

CalArts (California Institute of the Arts) - is the top ranked digital animation school by Disney and Pixar (the Pixar head went there). †It's accredited.

Those are schools that actually provide internships at good places. †Yes, they will be tough to get in.

Honestly though, at this point, if he hasn't actually created an animated short-film, then he's seriously behind. †Same thing with programmers.

When I was a teacher, I had no shortage of high school students saying they were going to be game programmers. †I asked them how many games they had built so far. †Every time the answer was none. †I asked how many programming languages they knew. †Every time the answer was none. †I told them that they better get on the stick because there were (and are) 8th graders who have published apps on the iPhone and a job won't even look at them until they have a serious portfolio of work.

I'm not trying to be discouraging. †That's the way the world is. †Right now, to do anything other than basic work in any field, you have to be seriously involved before high school. †I mean, creating games, creating short films, doing science and engineering before you even get to college.

+1

I used to be in charge of a large team of developers. A un. degree was just a sign that somebody could focus long enough to pass exams. We paid well and looked for people who lived and breathed coding

Used to be creationism was the end-all-be-all of tard. Now, creationism is NOTHING. ID is NOTHING.

Nothing at all compared to the tard that is anti-GMO. OMG, it's like the anti-GMO crowd has learned all the tricks of the creationists, but they have real true believers out there. You can't even do a simple google search for "percentage of GM sugar beets in the US" without wading through pages of the purest tard you've ever seen.

These guys have it allheadlines that make it seem like GM corn will destroy the entire fucking solar systemcherry-picking on a truly epic scalequote-mining... you've never seen quote-mining like these guys do itevery logical fallacy that exists... all on the same page

Geez, I didn't want this. But now, creationism is dead. It may be fun to kick the horse a while, but anti-GMO is alive, well and almost as popular as that guy who claims that in a 'real rape' women can't get pregnant.

It's... really fucking depressing.

--------------Ignored by those who can't provide evidence for their claims.

Used to be creationism was the end-all-be-all of tard. †Now, creationism is NOTHING. †ID is NOTHING.

Nothing at all compared to the tard that is anti-GMO. †OMG, it's like the anti-GMO crowd has learned all the tricks of the creationists, but they have real true believers out there. †You can't even do a simple google search for "percentage of GM sugar beets in the US" without wading through pages of the purest tard you've ever seen.

These guys have it allheadlines that make it seem like GM corn will destroy the entire fucking solar systemcherry-picking on a truly epic scalequote-mining... you've never seen quote-mining like these guys do itevery logical fallacy that exists... all on the same page

Geez, I didn't want this. †But now, creationism is dead. †It may be fun to kick the horse a while, but anti-GMO is alive, well and almost as popular as that guy who claims that in a 'real rape' women can't get pregnant.

Used to be creationism was the end-all-be-all of tard. †Now, creationism is NOTHING. †ID is NOTHING.

Nothing at all compared to the tard that is anti-GMO. †OMG, it's like the anti-GMO crowd has learned all the tricks of the creationists, but they have real true believers out there. †You can't even do a simple google search for "percentage of GM sugar beets in the US" without wading through pages of the purest tard you've ever seen.

These guys have it allheadlines that make it seem like GM corn will destroy the entire fucking solar systemcherry-picking on a truly epic scalequote-mining... you've never seen quote-mining like these guys do itevery logical fallacy that exists... all on the same page

Geez, I didn't want this. †But now, creationism is dead. †It may be fun to kick the horse a while, but anti-GMO is alive, well and almost as popular as that guy who claims that in a 'real rape' women can't get pregnant.

It's... really fucking depressing.

The problem is that there are valid concerns about the mega seed companies which gets lost in the crazy.

It's like coal seam gas - People want the whole industry shutdown where what it needs is some better regulation.

Used to be creationism was the end-all-be-all of tard. †Now, creationism is NOTHING. †ID is NOTHING.

Nothing at all compared to the tard that is anti-GMO. †OMG, it's like the anti-GMO crowd has learned all the tricks of the creationists, but they have real true believers out there. †You can't even do a simple google search for "percentage of GM sugar beets in the US" without wading through pages of the purest tard you've ever seen.

These guys have it allheadlines that make it seem like GM corn will destroy the entire fucking solar systemcherry-picking on a truly epic scalequote-mining... you've never seen quote-mining like these guys do itevery logical fallacy that exists... all on the same page

Geez, I didn't want this. †But now, creationism is dead. †It may be fun to kick the horse a while, but anti-GMO is alive, well and almost as popular as that guy who claims that in a 'real rape' women can't get pregnant.

Used to be creationism was the end-all-be-all of tard. †Now, creationism is NOTHING. †ID is NOTHING.

Nothing at all compared to the tard that is anti-GMO. †OMG, it's like the anti-GMO crowd has learned all the tricks of the creationists, but they have real true believers out there. †You can't even do a simple google search for "percentage of GM sugar beets in the US" without wading through pages of the purest tard you've ever seen.

These guys have it allheadlines that make it seem like GM corn will destroy the entire fucking solar systemcherry-picking on a truly epic scalequote-mining... you've never seen quote-mining like these guys do itevery logical fallacy that exists... all on the same page

Geez, I didn't want this. †But now, creationism is dead. †It may be fun to kick the horse a while, but anti-GMO is alive, well and almost as popular as that guy who claims that in a 'real rape' women can't get pregnant.