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Re: Luck vs Griffin - let it begin.

If I have to use a color to denote such obvious sarcasm, I fear for society.

As I've said before, the internet does not convey sarcasm very well at all.

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Re: Luck vs Griffin - let it begin.

Ryan Leaf started off great had better athletic tools than Peyton as soon as defenses adjusted....pooped the bed.

Tony Romo is a classic example of this. Good arm, moves well, played very well when he first got under center in Dallas and had his chance. Obviously didn't flame out like Leaf did, but I think we can all agree once the league started to game plan for him he has never been able to get over the hump.

I could go on.

Thing is....the media and fans who look down on the "running quarterback" or athletic quarterback (which Luck himself is as well) don't bring up names like Ryan Leaf as examples of guys who didn't work out or were figured out by the NFL. They bring up the usual suspects: Vick, McNabb, Newton (who is only in his second season for God's sake), etc. They will even bring up that recent QB bust from LSU (forgot his name) more than they will Leaf. Let's be real about that. And they love to put RGIII in that same group, instead of putting him in a group (as a model) of Elway, Steve Young and other successful quarterbacks who were athletic as heck and could kill teams on the ground. Why do you think that is, hmmmm? Anyone who suggests that no one who makes that comparison is doing so on a racial basis/ racial comparison is living in a fantasy world. Sure not all the folks who make that comparison are doing so because of the race factor but certainly there are many out there who do. That's reality. Just as much as it is reality that white American players who get drafted into the NBA are either compared to Bird or dismissed as being not athletic enough all because of the color of their skin. Period.

I think the Skins still rush RGIII too much but I understand that they want to take advatage of his speed. Nonetheless what truly makes him a threat is his ability to pass, his arm strength, his quick decisions in the pocket, his accuracy and yes his intelligence. He isn't some mental midget like Vince Young and seems to have his head on straight unlike the very talented Cam Newton. For a veteran quarterback his numbers and rankins at this point would be extremly impressive. The fact that he is doing this as a rookie without his number one receiver while playing in a much tougher conference than he AFC is nothing short of mind-boggling. Maybe Luck will end up being the better player (no shame in that for RG III considering Luck was drafted #1), but at this time to suggest that III is some flash-in-the-pan who will be figured out by next season is premature. The way I see it a few years from now when III has a better offensive line and better recievers around him, he will rely less on his legs and do even more damage with his arm.

Re: Luck vs Griffin - let it begin.

I'm not disagreeing, but at least you recognize it as a rookie mistake for everyone.

Yes anybody makes rookie mistakes, the important part here is that when it counted RG3 put his team in a position to win the game and for some reason the Redskins defense gave up that stupid touchdown with 1:40 seconds left.

Luck to me was good today but RG3 was more impressive because he was playing against a better team, I think you need to take that into consideration.

Re: Luck vs Griffin - let it begin.

Oh, not even close to RGIII or Wilson or Tannehill or, apparently Weeded who seriously outplayed him today. I was talking about wins for the team. Luck is even less than I expected him to be but when you are talking about the most overhyped player in NFL history, that shouldn't be any surprise....

Re: Luck vs Griffin - let it begin.

First, Weeden is 6 years old than Luck, he *should* be better lol.... Let's see how good Luck is when he's 29.

Second, he didn't "seriously" outplay Luck, don't even really know how to quantify that. Luck scored 2 touchdowns, so did Weeden. Luck won the game, Weeden lost. Did the rest of the Colts "carry" Luck to that win?

Third, your predictions so far have been total crap; "the Colts would win 0-2 wins all season; the Skins would be a playoff team". The Colts are sitting here with a better record --- after only 6 games, and have already topped your prediction. Even if Indy loses every game the rrest of the season, you can no longer be correct about their record. Your "superhero" RG3 has less wins with a better team so far. Cam Newton, the superstar you so admire, is 1-5 with barely 200 yards a game, 4 TDs and 5 interceptions.

Last edited by Kid Minneapolis; 10-21-2012 at 10:21 PM.

There are two types of quarterbacks in the league: Those whom over time, the league figures out ... and those who figure out the league.

Re: Luck vs Griffin - let it begin.

First, Weeden is 6 years old than Luck, he *should* be better lol.... Let's see how good Luck is when he's 29.

Second, he didn't "seriously" outplay Luck, don't even really know how to quantify that. Luck scored 2 touchdowns, so did Weeden. Luck won the game, Weeden lost. Did the rest of the Colts "carry" Luck to that win?

Third, your predictions so far have been total crap; "the Colts would win 0-2 wins all season; the Skins would be a playoff team". The Colts are sitting here with a better record --- after only 6 games, and have already topped your prediction. Even if Indy loses every game the rrest of the season, you can no longer be correct about their record. Your "superhero" RG3 has less wins with a better team so far. Cam Newton, the superstar you so admire, is 1-5 with barely 200 yards a game, 4 TDs and 5 interceptions.

Luck was the number one overall pick, and Weeden was selected at the bottom of the first round, how do you figure Weeden "should" be better? Age has nothing to do with it, when they entered the league at the exact same time and Luck was selected before Weeden. Doesn't really make sense there.

Weeden would have won had Gordon not dropped that TD pass in the fourth. BUT he dropped it, and you should never say "if" so that's neither here or there. BUT the colts struggled to beat the Browns, and the Skins barely lost against the defending super bowl champs.

Luck has had great high's (the GB game) and bad low's (NYJ) but has mostly been somewhere in the middle when you add it all together. He has a bad tendency to turn the ball over, and he often throws a few floater's where he completely overthrows a receiver coming across the middle. But he also has a tendency to piece together long drives and figures out a way to run it into the endzone.

But man I'm telling you, for a guy that's only throwing to one side of the field and is probably only playing with half of the playbook, RGIII continues to impress and almost dominate in every game. And not just SC highlight type of plays. I'm talking about accuracy (crazy high completion percentage) decision making (only 3 INT) and he's so good he has players from other teams gushing about him. READ

Statistics aside (where RGII is absolutely killing Luck) I don't see how anyone can honestly say that Luck has played better, looked better, or out preformed RGIII in any way. He's barely looked better than guys like Tannehill and Weeden (who looked a lot better than expected)

Yes the colts have a better record, but the skins have played a tougher of a schedule. But it's deeper than that. Yes a win is a win, so I guess it depends on what you would prefer. Do you want to struggle to beat the likes of the Browns, only to have to come back to earth when you play a team with real talent? Or do you want to have hope for the future and be able to compete with the likes of the Giants? Some would prefer the W, others would prefer to be able to compete with the best.

Re: Luck vs Griffin - let it begin.

Luck was the number one overall pick, and Weeden was selected at the bottom of the first round, how do you figure Weeden "should" be better? Age has nothing to do with it, when they entered the league at the exact same time and Luck was selected before Weeden. Doesn't really make sense there.

Weeden would have won had Gordon not dropped that TD pass in the fourth. BUT he dropped it, and you should never say "if" so that's neither here or there. BUT the colts struggled to beat the Browns, and the Skins barely lost against the defending super bowl champs.

Luck has had great high's (the GB game) and bad low's (NYJ) but has mostly been somewhere in the middle when you add it all together. He has a bad tendency to turn the ball over, and he often throws a few floater's where he completely overthrows a receiver coming across the middle. But he also has a tendency to piece together long drives and figures out a way to run it into the endzone.

But man I'm telling you, for a guy that's only throwing to one side of the field and is probably only playing with half of the playbook, RGIII continues to impress and almost dominate in every game. And not just SC highlight type of plays. I'm talking about accuracy (crazy high completion percentage) decision making (only 3 INT) and he's so good he has players from other teams gushing about him. READ

Statistics aside (where RGII is absolutely killing Luck) I don't see how anyone can honestly say that Luck has played better, looked better, or out preformed RGIII in any way. He's barely looked better than guys like Tannehill and Weeden (who looked a lot better than expected)

Yes the colts have a better record, but the skins have played a tougher of a schedule. But it's deeper than that. Yes a win is a win, so I guess it depends on what you would prefer. Do you want to struggle to beat the likes of the Browns, only to have to come back to earth when you play a team with real talent? Or do you want to have hope for the future and be able to compete with the likes of the Giants? Some would prefer the W, others would prefer to be able to compete with the best.

I agree, RG3 to me(at least at this point) is more accurate and better than Luck, with Luck sometimes I have to make sure that I'm watching the right game because I get confuse and start thinking that I'm watching Tim Tebow throwing it up there.

I agree, RG3 to me(at least at this point) is more accurate and better than Luck, with Luck sometimes I have to make sure that I'm watching the right game because I get confuse and start thinking that I'm watching Tim Tebow throwing it up there.

Re: Luck vs Griffin - let it begin.

Luck was the number one overall pick, and Weeden was selected at the bottom of the first round, how do you figure Weeden "should" be better? Age has nothing to do with it, when they entered the league at the exact same time and Luck was selected before Weeden. Doesn't really make sense there.

You really don't think a 29 year old first round prospect has any advantage over a 23 year old?? Do you think you're skillset is static at the age you're at now? You won't have improved your skillset at your profession at all in 6 years, between the ages of 23 and 29? He's had 6 more years to learn, develop his game. Luck was drafted for his potential, which has yet to be realized. Weeden wasn't drafted for potential, he was drafted for what he is, a fully mature quarterback. I think it's completely feasible to say that RIGHT NOW Brandon Weeden is not at all too far from the category of Luck, RG3, Tannehill, Wilson. The difference is long-term... Weeden's growth curve is much smaller than Luck and those guys. Right now, Weeden is gonna keep it close with every other rookie otu there. Come back to me in a few years and ask the same question.

Weeden would have won had Gordon not dropped that TD pass in the fourth. BUT he dropped it, and you should never say "if" so that's neither here or there. BUT the colts struggled to beat the Browns, and the Skins barely lost against the defending super bowl champs.

So? That was this week. Two weeks ago, that "struggling Colts" team posted an amazing comeback over one of the best teams in the NFL. Luck has outperformed Weeden by a pretty large margin over the course of the entire season, in a number of ways. And let's not dismiss Weeden here, he's a good QB for what he is, a 29 year old rookie. Chris Weinke came in and had a few good years too, immediately. Weeden's OK St. just beat the Luck-led Cardinal in the Fiesta Bowl just half a year ago. It's not like Weeden can't hold his own against Luck --- this season.

Luck has had great high's (the GB game) and bad low's (NYJ) but has mostly been somewhere in the middle when you add it all together. He has a bad tendency to turn the ball over, and he often throws a few floater's where he completely overthrows a receiver coming across the middle. But he also has a tendency to piece together long drives and figures out a way to run it into the endzone.

Sooo.... he's a rookie. If you don't like Luck's inconsistency and turnover ratio, you absolutely would have been calling for Peyton Manning's removal in 1998. You have to have patience.

But man I'm telling you, for a guy that's only throwing to one side of the field and is probably only playing with half of the playbook, RGIII continues to impress and almost dominate in every game. And not just SC highlight type of plays. I'm talking about accuracy (crazy high completion percentage) decision making (only 3 INT) and he's so good he has players from other teams gushing about him. READ

There's pretty good reason for his statistical numbers, which we've discussed in fairly long length here on these forums. If you're going to base your opinion of RG3 on passer rating and completion percentage, then congratz --- you've just bought into MIke Shanahan's simplied offensive system. Makes rookies look good. RG3 is a very good prospect, he's the 2nd best prospect in this draft. He also has a west coast and option- like style of offense to play in, which does exactly what you're seeing. He also has the #1 rusher in the league to hand the ball off to. He's also not faced very good passing defenses. He's also already missed time due to injury, and despite having an easier system and better supporting cast, he has more losses. We've gone over all of this. There's a lotta hype around that guy, it's gonna come down eventually.

Statistics aside (where RGII is absolutely killing Luck) I don't see how anyone can honestly say that Luck has played better, looked better, or out preformed RGIII in any way. He's barely looked better than guys like Tannehill and Weeden (who looked a lot better than expected)

See, this is a big fat myth. The only stats he's beating Luck in are rating, interceptions, and completion rate. Again, all point to the system he plays in. All the reasons I just stated above. He's not beating Luck in passing yards per game, he's not running a no-huddle, he's only using half the field, he's not making as many reads. He has the same # of passing touchdowns in 1 more game than Luck. RG3 has more rushing touchdowns --- while getting his *** handed to him repeatedly on those designed run plays.

Yes the colts have a better record, but the skins have played a tougher of a schedule. But it's deeper than that. Yes a win is a win, so I guess it depends on what you would prefer. Do you want to struggle to beat the likes of the Browns, only to have to come back to earth when you play a team with real talent? Or do you want to have hope for the future and be able to compete with the likes of the Giants? Some would prefer the W, others would prefer to be able to compete with the best.

The Colts are 3-3 and just like RG3, lost a game in the final seconds to a long bomb. So could be 4-2. Do you remember what the Colts did this off-season? They overhauled the entire organization. Look at what Luck has around him. Reggie Wayne. That's it. Where is Indy's rookie head coach? Fighting leukemia in a hospital. He has way more working against him, less to work with, and he's damn near 4-2, and even Luck will admit he's not played perfectly, which just goes to show how much of an impact this guy has even when he's not playing to his full potential. Who else are you going to point to for 3, almost 4 wins in 6 games?? Reggie Wayne? He's good, but he's not winning games by himself. It's Luck. He's made this team legit way quicker than we have any right to be. And his full potential is 2-3-4 years down the road --- at least. I think that's all that needs to be said.

There is absolutely no way I'd trade him for anyone, including RG3.

Last edited by Kid Minneapolis; 10-22-2012 at 10:53 AM.

There are two types of quarterbacks in the league: Those whom over time, the league figures out ... and those who figure out the league.

Re: Luck vs Griffin - let it begin.

I agree, RG3 to me(at least at this point) is more accurate and better than Luck, with Luck sometimes I have to make sure that I'm watching the right game because I get confuse and start thinking that I'm watching Tim Tebow throwing it up there.

Comparing him to Tebow is a little rank. Comparing him to the other five starting QBs in the NFL is better and sometime, the "fans" have to admit that he is in last place with that group. Yes, he has won three games and that is great. But, his performance is very mediocre or less. People point out that he is even or ahead of Peyton at this point. He won't be by the end of the season and I expect him to finish the season as the fifth best rookie QB in the NFL. But, never fear, the folks here will have excuses ready and waiting for him. Prepare to be doing that for the next ten years or so. The Washington Post today said that goals would have to be reset for the Redskins in light of how well RKIII is playing and they praised his big play ability and the ability to beat a team with his arm or his legs or both. They also mentioned that Andrew Luck was struggling mightily on a very bad Colts team. Struggle is probably the exact right term. I think he will be struggling for a long, long time. But don't worry, at the current rate, the Colts will have several number one picks in the coming years... Andrew Luck? I just don't see it happening for him.....

Re: Luck vs Griffin - let it begin.

You really don't think a 29 year old first round prospect has any advantage over a 23 year old?? Do you think you're skillset is static at the age you're at now? You won't have improved your skillset at your profession at all in 6 years, between the ages of 23 and 29? He's had 6 more years to learn, develop his game. Luck was drafted for his potential, which has yet to be realized. Weeden wasn't drafted for potential, he was drafted for what he is, a fully mature quarterback. I think it's completely feasible to say that RIGHT NOW Brandon Weeden is not at all too far from the category of Luck, RG3, Tannehill, Wilson. The difference is long-term... Weeden's growth curve is much smaller than Luck and those guys. Right now, Weeden is gonna keep it close with every other rookie otu there. Come back to me in a few years and ask the same question.

So? That was this week. Two weeks ago, that "struggling Colts" team posted an amazing comeback over one of the best teams in the NFL. Luck has outperformed Weeden by a pretty large margin over the course of the entire season, in a number of ways. And let's not dismiss Weeden here, he's a good QB for what he is, a 29 year old rookie. Chris Weinke came in and had a few good years too, immediately. Weeden's OK St. just beat the Luck-led Cardinal in the Fiesta Bowl just half a year ago. It's not like Weeden can't hold his own against Luck --- this season.

Sooo.... he's a rookie. If you don't like Luck's inconsistency and turnover ratio, you absolutely would have been calling for Peyton Manning's removal in 1998. You have to have patience.

There's pretty good reason for his statistical numbers, which we've discussed in fairly long length here on these forums. If you're going to base your opinion of RG3 on passer rating and completion percentage, then congratz --- you've just bought into MIke Shanahan's simplied offensive system. Makes rookies look good. RG3 is a very good prospect, he's the 2nd best prospect in this draft. He also has a west coast and option- like style of offense to play in, which does exactly what you're seeing. He also has the #1 rusher in the league to hand the ball off to. He's also not faced very good passing defenses. He's also already missed time due to injury, and despite having an easier system and better supporting cast, he has more losses. We've gone over all of this. There's a lotta hype around that guy, it's gonna come down eventually.

See, this is a big fat myth. The only stats he's beating Luck in are rating, interceptions, and completion rate. Again, all point to the system he plays in. All the reasons I just stated above. He's not beating Luck in passing yards per game, he's not running a no-huddle, he's only using half the field, he's not making as many reads. He has the same # of passing touchdowns in 1 more game than Luck. RG3 has more rushing touchdowns --- while getting his *** handed to him repeatedly on those designed run plays.

The Colts are 3-3 and just like RG3, lost a game in the final seconds to a long bomb. So could be 4-2. Do you remember what the Colts did this off-season? They overhauled the entire organization. Look at what Luck has around him. Reggie Wayne. That's it. Where is Indy's rookie head coach? Fighting leukemia in a hospital. He has way more working against him, less to work with, and he's damn near 4-2, and even Luck will admit he's not played perfectly, which just goes to show how much of an impact this guy has even when he's not playing to his full potential. Who else are you going to point to for 3, almost 4 wins in 6 games?? Reggie Wayne? He's good, but he's not winning games by himself. It's Luck. He's made this team legit way quicker than we have any right to be. And his full potential is 2-3-4 years down the road --- at least. I think that's all that needs to be said.

There is absolutely no way I'd trade him for anyone, including RG3.

Don't worry, you will never get that opportunity. Washington wouldn't make that trade with any other five players or picks the Colts want to throw in. They have a superstar on their hands. The Colts have at best a project......