Gary Numan Digest Sun, 20 Feb 2000 Volume 2 : Issue 14
Today's Topics:
Alien
Alien Magazine
Gary Numan Digest V2 #13
I'm Playing With Some Aliens
I AM on top
If Numan can't even win here, I don't stand a chance
labels
Lots goin' on with the NAGNFC !! :-)
OT: New Kraftwerk?
Telekon
Telekon the song
that's not it
TikTokMan mistake(s)...
Todd M LeMieux vs Alien Magazine
Valerium by a process of elimination...
Vinyl
What does "at cost" mean anyway?
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2000 07:46:28 +0000
From: vickers@netcomuk.co.uk
Subject: Alien
To: Gary Numan
Maybe Alien is not a neutral, generalised magazine,
catering to all tastes. But then again, it's not
meant to be! I find it more informative than its
predecessor, and far more useful bits of background
are in it. I want to read, learn and inwardly digest
things Numan, or Numanish, or Numanesque. This is my
little island of fantasy...
And, by the way, why do Numanoids keep slagging
one another off. Unity, folks, harmony...
Paddy Vickers
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2000 16:15:03 +0000
From: Tom Gorham
Subject: Alien Magazine
To: Gary Numan
> I feel that Alien is self-congratulatory and masturbatory to the point
> of arrogance. I'm sure it's not written by real writers nor edited by a
> real editor; it's probably completely produced by the Numan clan. And
> you know what? It shows. It's poorly designed, poorly written, and
> poorly edited. Period.
You've only just noticed? :)
> There has been
> very little, from a basic "Graphic Design 101" perspective, that is any
> good at all. If I were to add to that my personal likes and dislikes I
> would say that most, if not all, of his graphics are amateurish at best
> and could stand to be improved considerably.
To be fair, I don't think many people subscribe to Alien for a lesson in
design. Most would still want it if it was a couple of sheets of typewritte=
n
A4. And although his last two album covers have been fairly forgettable, at
least they're a marked improvement over the 1984=AD1992 covers; for a start
they don't feature our Gary on the cover. Hurrah!
=20
> His ranting (on his website and
> in Alien) are pathetic. Get over it. Either ignore the comments or, if
> they are many and frequent maybe you should take them to heart because
> your fans are putting the food on your table and there will come a time
> when they may choose to not buy your stuff. I didn't pay for a magazine
> subscription to hear him whine about these things in print.
I think that's fair comment. It seems surprising that he's taking a pop at
moaners now, when the Digest, for example, has contained criticism of Gary
from day one (a quick check back at the first Numan Digest shows a swingein=
g
- and accurate - critique of Machine and Soul from Derek Langsford. I don'=
t
think the complaints have got any more unreasonable since, so why choose no=
w
to have a go? Maybe Gaz is just a little frustrated at the moment, or fans
are becoming a little peeved with continual delays to the release of the ne=
w
album - delays which seem to be Gary's own doing.
> I've heard all the "Oh Gary's been screwed so many times in the past
> that now he wants to do it all himself." arguments. Well maybe that's
> so. I wonder how much of this is about control but also about money.
> Doing it all yourself means you don't have to pay others for their
> expertise. Deal with the consequences of those actions. But I
> don't want to hear Gary (or fans) complain about valid criticism.
Me neither. I don't think it's about money though: I really think it's abou=
t
control. Sometimes it's good to do a lot of things on your own: it means yo=
u
have responsibility and control of the whole project. But when you start
shutting collaborators out, and then criticising some fans for daring to
moan about what they perceive as weaknesses, who's left to provide the
balance? It certainly isn't healthy.
=20
Regards
Tom Gorham
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2000 09:14:31 EST
From: SteelHanky@aol.com
Subject: Gary Numan Digest V2 #13
To: digest@garynumanfan.nu
In a message dated 2/17/00 3:20:55 AM Central Standard Time,
digest@garynumanfan.nu writes:
> For true fans: the Rolling Stone bio on Gaz is below, see if you can spot
> the error:
> While frontman for Tubeway Army, Numan
> made his debut with the post-Sex Pistols punk
> singles "That's Not It" and "Bombers."
Uhhh, that's not it.
--- JAD...
Proud member of Boys Who Don't Profit From Bootlegs
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2000 07:36:52 -0800
From: "Jim Benson, AICP"
Subject: I'm Playing With Some Aliens
To: "Gary Numan"
> For true fans: the Rolling Stone bio on Gaz is below, see if you can spot
> the error:
The error? There are several.
> Pumping on keyboards
> and sampling new wave
> sounds, Numan created an
1. Wouldn't call it "pumping".
2. No sampling in 1979.
> singles "That's Not It" and
3. That's too bad.
> on the juice. The now
> divided band split up and
4. No, not really.
> pop legend status. In 1981
> Numan's passions turned
> to the air when he flew
> around the world in his own
> airplane.
5. What happened to Dance, I, Assassin, etc.?
> Numan continued to record
> into the '90s, releasing
> Sacrifice in 1994 and a
> greatest hits package,
> Premier Hits, in 1996.
6. Numan (or others) have released countless Greatest Hits CDs. Probably
more than any artist ever, including Mozart.
> Numan's latest CD, the
> electronica-influenced
> Exile, was released on
> Cleopatra Records in
> February 1998.
7. More like Goth Influenced
> Anni Layne
8. Probably Annie.
> Does anybody else get the impression Gary doesn't really want to work on
> this new album? He has yet another news post at NuWorld about mucking
> around with his studio equipment, which in turn has interfered with him
> working on the album. Maybe he's feeling pressured into doing it,
> instead of inspired. The impetus is coming from outside himself,
> instead of from within.
Let the guy work. You want a bunch of shlock that takes two or three days
to pump out?
Jim
http://www.mp3.com/jleroy
http://www.mp3.com/ama (still beating Tori Amos)
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2000 19:48:42 -0000
From: "Valerium"
Subject: I AM on top
To:
My love is a liquid wrote " One hopeless individual 'Valerium' tried at
least 8 times before he beat me.... puff!:-) No but hardly in the spirit of
things is it? You know what they say 'if you have no knowledge, keep it to
yourself' well they don't actually say that I just made it up."
Actually I tried only five times as you can see from the list ( well that's
only the five you can see :-)) My intention was not to beat you since I no
not who you are and care not a jot. My intention was to answer all questions
correctly. But hardly in the spirit of things?? Another fine example of PC
crap. The spirit of a quiz is to answer as many questions correctly as
possible. If you don't do well the first time, you can try to do better and
there lies the spirit of life, to do better next time.
I am so hopeless that I managed to get all 20 correct something which no-one
else has managed. Not only that but the way I achieved it was simply
breathtaking :-). Now what were you saying about knowledge?
V
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2000 12:35:08 -0800 (PST)
From: PolareBear
Subject: If Numan can't even win here, I don't stand a chance
To: machman@interaccess.com, digest@garynumanfan.nu
Hello Numanoids Of The World! I appreciate Jeff's honest comments
about my light-hearted postings. No, I don't have the Jerry Springer
mentality of Numanoids who apparently prefer to see our small group rip
ourselves apart instead of making each other laugh. This list is becoming a
cesspool of light Jenny Jones controversial proportions with throwaway
issues force fed to my inbox weekly so I can read how awful are doers like
my man Gary Numan whose foremost intention is to please and make happy.
I have reasoned and hung on by my fingertips on this wild and utterly
negative ride but I see no reason not to jump off. This will be my last
posting. Since the NAGNFC Website receives more hits monthly than there are
Digest members, longtime fans of the NAGNFC can be rest assured that it will
always be there like a beacon in the night for Numanoids who would like to
experience the lighter side of being a Numanoid once in awhile.
Love to my friends,
Jim "The Machman" Napier
Curator
North American Gary Numan Fan Club (1989 - ?)
http://themachman.garynumanfan.nu
_______________________________________________________
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------------------------------
Date: 17 Feb 2000 10:33:54 +0000
From: Steve Webbon
Subject: labels
To: numan list
On a separate issue. Just why did the I Assassin
album use the Dance labels? I always thought it might
have been because they had a lot left because Dance
sold poorly. Surely Beggars Banquet were not that
cheap were they?
I suspect that there's a high element of truth in your theory! (though, as =
a licensed act at the time, it was WEA being frugal). Though Dance sold =
well it was significantly less than previous albums so there probably was =
a large stock of label backgrounds left over. So should this label cop-out =
be repeated when it comes to re-issuing 'I, Assassin' on CD?
P.S. 'I.Assassin' is currently down at the mastering room; the tapes are =
confusing, so there may be some alternative versions, though probably no =
room to include them on this CD. Don't expect a release until September +
- steve
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2000 02:25:21 -0800 (PST)
From: PolareBear
Subject: Lots goin' on with the NAGNFC !! :-)
To: digest@garynumanfan.nu, machman@interaccess.com
Hello Numanoids Of The World! Jim "The Machman" Napier here to shock,
please or dismay, hopefully to please! Ha-ha! There seems to be some
confusion about the moniker "The Machman" to the point of imposter name
calling. Yes, I'm an imposter. Gary is the original Machman from a 1979
persona. I then came along and called myself Machman in 1989. I suppose
anyone after that is an imposter of Gary and me.
For those who hadn't thought to make items available first, that's
okay, I understand your pain. I hold a gun to no one's head to buy these.
Believe it or not, no profit has been made so far compared to what I paid.
And that probably won't change even with a heaping helping of very old Numan
video recently unearthed by my new friend Dave in Manchester (thanks Dave!)
as well as a sweet stereo video of Shadowman infinitely more watchable than
Jeff's copy.
Obviously, given Jeff Tolva's dismay about Numan video on eBay, he has
personally contacted all 4 present sellers of Numan video on eBay. If not,
his views really aren't to be taken seriously, are they?
Now I know how Gary feels, with his recent need to deflect comments
made by watchers instead of doers. And not even Gary ran his fan club
internationally until I already had for 7 years. Where were all you
armchair critics then as I lost a fortune bringing Numanoids together from 4
continents? Ha-ha! No doubt they were writing letters to their local
newspaper editors thinking they were changing the world too.
I get so many positive e-mails, it's easy to dismiss whining by people
who don't even have the decency to speak to me privately first. You are a
miniscule minority. Fans of the NAGNFC know that it always has been, and
always will be, the last refuge for fun-loving Numanoids. Never room for
negativity. Gary's music is too good, and life is too short. Parteeee!
WOOHOO!!!!
Speaking of fun, check out details on most Numan websites for a fun and
incredible live chat on February 22 at 7:00 pm when you can talk to Jim
Collins first-hand about his amazing and very much awaited CD called "The
Church Of Gary Numan: A Dark Celebration". The NAGNFC snagged this tres'
cool Numanoid for you to hang with and question about his upcoming
high-production album and video rockumentary! The NAGNFC chat room is found
at:
Peace out and 'Til next time!
Jim "The Machman" Napier
http://themachman.garynumanfan.nu
_______________________________________________________
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------------------------------
Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2000 15:06:23 +0000
From: Dryad
Subject: OT: New Kraftwerk?
To: digest@garynumanfan.nu (Gary Numan)
Your gentle pardon, folks, but I don't know who else might supply me with the
info...
brand:new on MTV UK has been screening this video, the very beginning of which
I keep missing, so don't know who does the song, but it walks, talks, heck,
practically smells like Kraftwerk. So, my question is, does anyone know if
this is Kraftwerk, and if so, from what cd?
Thankee
Clea
--
Space is still a high priority for NASA
Dan Quayle
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2000 18:48:29 -0000
From: "Antonio"
Subject: Telekon
To: "Gary Numan"
Gary P asked about Telekon,
>Anyway. This is not to say everyone should like
>Telekon, far from it. I am just interested to know
>why so many people seem to dislike it, while liking
>other tracks that seem to my mind to be equally
>unusual.
Personally, 'Telekon' is one of my favourite songs ever.
Telekon the album was the first album I ever bought on the day of its
release, I remember rushing out to but it in case all the copies with the
free single got sold out on the first day :>
And I played the album constantly - I wore three copies out! (well, I bought
three copies over the years on vinyl as they all got scratches on different
tracks... but it sounds better the first way I said it...) and I now have a
copy on CD... so it's probably my most owned album :P
Teletour 80 was also my very first gig, so this is the album which to me
marks the very beginning of my Numan fanship 9even though I had the first
three albums by the time Telekon was released, this was like my first proper
looking forward to the new album experience) - and, well. It blew me away.
Telekon and Sleep By Windows were and remain my favourites, but the whole
album is wonderful. I wasn't bothered that I Die:You Die and We Are Glass
were not on the abum - in fact, it made it seem all the better because this
was 10 new, unheard songs, plus live recordings of Remember I was Vapour
(though this was my least favourite track) and On Broadway.
I loved the words to Telekon - 'You end on reel one' to me at the age of 14
seemed so deep! I was thinking, 'Wow - this means your life is so short,
only one reel long... it's like, a metaphor for being cut down in our
prime...' I even used the lyrics in an English Literature assignment at
school, where we had to choose a poem or a set of 'pop lyrics' and analise
them... 'We're in formation saying safe, safe, safe' - hmmm - safety in
numbers, paranoia... - I took things way too seriously when I was 14 ;P
But, yeah.
I LOVE Telekon - the song and the album - and I don't care :>
Anti
I am a poseur and I don't care, I like to make people stare!
(X-Ray Spex)
http://www.goffboi.freeserve.co.uk
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2000 09:41:25 -0600
From: hartlaub@falcon.tamucc.edu
Subject: Telekon the song
To: digest@GaryNumanFan.NU
I agree with Gary P about "Telekon" being a great song. Far from being one
of my least favorite tracks, I think it's great. (In fact, I've never seen
the appeal of "I Die: You Die" - that's my least favorite on the album,
although I like the lyrics.) "Telekon" is very sparse and atmospheric,
very much like "Please Push No More" and "Aircrash Bureau". Ced's drums
sound almost robotic also, as if the entire song (save the tinkling piano)
is coming right from a computer. A lost-in-the-computer song which sounds
like it came from a computer.
-Mark
"I'd love to be like me if I could feel like you"
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2000 12:47:36 -0600
From: Valerie Iglar-Mobley
Subject: that's not it
To: The Gary Digest
Dear numanoids,
> I wonder how much of this is about control but also about money.
Todd, your points are well taken, but I don't think it's about the money
for Gaz. If he were to take your advice and hire some people to help
him out around the periphery of what he's doing, he'd probably be in a
lot better standing right now in marketability-- so he'd actually have
bigger sales and more filthy lucre at his disposal-- but he's willing to
sacrifice that to keep the reins in his own hands. I think it really is
about control for him; he just wants to do it all himself. He has a
vision and he wants to follow it.
Whatever it may be doing to his career, we have to admire his integrity.
Other artists give carte blanche to the industry to cut and shape them
into Frankenstein's monsters of marketing-driven pop sensibility, but
Gary does what he wants to do with a devil-may-care attitude about how
it affects his sales.
That said, I'll agree that I would actually like to see him make some
decisions that could give him a boost. I've mentioned them before. I
wouldn't want him to change anything to do with his artistry, but, you
know, picking which songs become singles and so forth.
For instance...
> I am just interested to know why so many people seem to dislike it...
Gary, I'm one of those who thinks "Telekon" is indeed the worst song on
that album. Still something I'd take over just about anything else I
hear on the airwaves, but up against the rest of 'Telekon' it loses out.
In fact, I think it should've been a b-side, despite it carrying the
album title. I mean, "Dance" didn't even make it onto a b-!
To my ears, "We Have A Technical" is hands-down the best song to come
out of the 'Replicas' sessions-- yes, even beating out those big two--
but I understand why it didn't go onto the album. It wouldn't have
sounded quite in keeping with everything else. It has a more spartan
arrangement, and it's about twice the average length.
"Telekon" is probably the most monotonous song Gary has recorded. It
doesn't really go anywhere. His singing is at its most sonorous. In
hindsight, I think Gary has indirectly admitted it probably should've
been a b-. What are the two songs from 'Telekon' that have never
appeared on a live album? Anyone want to speculate wildly where Gary's
career would be right now if that album had looked like this:
1) This Wreckage 1) I'm An Agent
2) The Aircrash Bureau 2) I Dream Of Wires
3) Remember I Was Vapour 3) Please Push No More
4) Remind Me To Smile 4) We Are Glass
5) I Die: You Die 5) The Joy Circuit
In 'Praying To The Aliens' he admitted that was his first big mistake,
however well-intentioned. The album could've held onto some chart
standings for a while longer; the media would've held off on turning on
him for a bit.
I think he has learned from that lesson. My guess is that's why
"Absolution" went onto 'Exile,' however out of place it may have sounded
amid all the blasphemy. Any single that Gary ever releases, from now
on, WILL be on an album. One might even argue that was why he had to
record 'Automatic,' just to have a Gary album with "Change Your Mind" on
it. (It had appeared on Bill Sharpe's 'Famous People,' or whatever it
was called, but, you know, that wasn't a GARY album.)
With all that said, I am hoping against hope that somebody in the
current band will have compassion for us 'noids and bootleg every last
one of the 75 or however many songs Gary has demo'd for the next album,
just so we can hear them. I mean, I want the album to be marketable,
but I still want everything Numan to eventually end up in my collection!
lots of love (with bonus tracks!),
Ben Iglar-Mobley
http://home.earthlink.net/~iglarmobley
* * *
"You quote from 'anxious' and things we do...
Do you begin to see that I don't know?"
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2000 15:16:55 PST
From: "ian blair"
Subject: TikTokMan mistake(s)...
To: digest@garynumanfan.nu, datta@ivanova.garynumanfan.nu
TikTok Man was afer an error in the Rolling Stone article, but there were at
least two that I found...
1)"It was this industrious mix that won Numan two No. 1 albums..." = should
be THREE #1 albums.
2)"That's Not It" = That's TOO BAD
- Ian
______________________________________________________
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------------------------------
Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2000 09:07:02 -0000
From: thoutby@fusiongroup.co.uk (Tim Houtby)
Subject: Todd M LeMieux vs Alien Magazine
To: "'Numan Digest'"
I'm sure that by now there has been a flurry of mails re Todd's scathing
attack on Alien & other things Numan, but can I just say this:
Todd - I'm not sure where you get your information from, but be rest
assured that-
a). It is written by real writers (Steve Malins, if you did not know, is a
writer & editor for probably the UKs best music magazine). He is, as you
should know, a long time Numan collaborator and friend (take a read of
Praying To The Aliens))
b). I'm sure it is edited. See above.
c).Sure, there has been bad design in the past (Machine & Soul for
example), but you can't say Exile and maybe Sacrifice are in that same
design league - and you can't say that things haven't improved.
d).With regards to money - I'm sure the poor designs & artwork in the past
WERE to do with money. My guess is that Gary COULD NOT afford to employ
such a creative design talent as yourself whilst releasing on Numa.
e). Why the argument now about who writes it?? Hasn't the Numan Fan Club
magazine/newsletter ALWAYS been writen by "the Numan clan". From day1 ???
Thats all.
Tim.
ps - Do you feel another Manchester Acadamy saga coming on ?
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------------------------------
Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2000 16:11:02 PST
From: "ian blair"
Subject: Valerium by a process of elimination...
To: digest@garynumanfan.nu, datta@ivanova.garynumanfan.nu
Last digest "My love is a liquid" posted "Subject: I will be top!"
He said something like... "Great idea with the quiz but maybe some kind of
restriction to how many attempts you get. One
hopeless individual 'Valerium' tried at least 8 times before he beat
me.... puff!:-) No but hardly in the spirit of things is it?"
Well I can't believe he's got nothing better to do! You have to wait an hour
before re-sitting!
Even with Valerium's lowest score of 80% (of course, we don't know how many
times he didn't make it past the first 10 questions!) he could of only got 4
questions wrong... so it would only be a process of re-selecting and
arranging the ones he knew (I suspect he was v confident with the right
ones) were wrong, each time... so I agree - it's hardly the spirit... not
even like he ws guessing... ;)
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------------------------------
Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2000 13:05:42 +0000
From: "Laurence Robertson"
Subject: Vinyl
To: numan@cs.uwp.edu
Remember when Gary released his songs on the black stuff ??
I have a comprehensive collection of Gary's singles, albums and 12"
singles. Is there some way of finding out their worth (if anything)
Examples include -
Down in the Park 12" single
Are Friends Electric picture disc 7"
Remember I was Vapour 12" single
original Replicas album with poster
Bombers double pack 7" single.
Also, I have recently rediscovered my ageing collection and I never
realised what good albums Dance, and for that matter, Berserker were. My
favourites were always Replicas and Warriors. Also, if anyone has some
vinyl I recommend that they invest in a
good record player, my Numan records sound better than ever on the 2nd
hand deck I just bought - much better than CD.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2000 20:03:03 -0600
From: Jeff Tolva
Subject: What does "at cost" mean anyway?
To: digest@GaryNumanFan.NU
Fellow Numanoids,
I've had a number of inquires since my last posting to the Digest regarding
my selling of Numan audio and video tapes at cost. What does "at cost"
mean anyway? Plain and simple, it means I make no profit whatsoever on
dubbing tapes! It means covering the cost of buying the tape itself,
putting it in a padded mailer, and posting it to you. For those who have
dealt with me before, you'll note that my "rate" has never changed. I
charge $5 USD per audio tape and $10 USD per video tape. And just so I'm
perfectly clear on this: I always try to make a one-to-one tape trade
first. Converting money is a mess, and frankly it's not worth converting
money for one or two tapes anyway. I'd much rather trade fellow fans for
something that I don't already have. The whole reason I do it is to expand
my own Numan collection, and in the process I help others do the same. And
this can and is be accomplished without financial profit to me at all! If
I can't make a one-to-one trade, then I submit to you that these rates
simply cover my cost of making and sending the tapes. BTW, I use high
quality audio tape such as Maxell, TDK, or Sony chrome tapes. And for
video, I generally use Maxell Silver or Gold video tapes. I don't bother
with cheap shit. Charging anything more than the rates I do is more than
simply covering costs! For the record, the last time I checked, Mr Napier
charges $15 per one hour video tape and $25 per two hour video tape via his
web site catalog. I can't say for certain what he charges for audio tapes,
but I'll bet it's more than $5 per tape. Now, either I'm loosing money on
every deal I make, or Mr Napier's rates cover more than just his cost. I
can assure everyone on this Digest that I am not loosing money at $5 per
audio tape and $10 per video tape, but then again I am not making any money
either. That's the way I think it should be! Before this message starts
another war about copyrights and bootlegging, etc., let me say that I don't
claim to own the copyrights to any of the live material I have, but if I
can sell it without making profit, then it's worth exactly what the cost of
the tape and postage is, and nothing more than that. One last thing: I
will put my audio and video tapes up next to Mr Napier's any day of the
week! For those I've traded with or sold to in the past, you know what I
deliver. And for those of you who'd like to see my lists, I'd be more than
happy to send you one via e-mail. I don't advertise my collection on any
web pages as some others do; I generally like to keep a low profile on
these sorts of things. So much for a low profile after this message though...
I just wanted to get it all "in the open" for those who have been asking or
for those who have just been wondering.
Regards,
Jeff Tolva (The Machman)
------------------------------
End of Gary Numan Digest
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