Bertel Gilje was born on November 10, 1903 in
Stavanger, Norway to Andreas Pedersen Norbotn and Karen Talette Gilje. Bertel's
four sisters, Anna, Talette, Marie, Andrea, all took the family name of
Pedersen, his brother Peder took their paternal grandfather's name of Norbotn,
and Bertel, who was the youngest boy in the family, took his mother's family
name. Bertel's father was a longshoreman, and the family had a three-story
house, in which they rented out the first floor. The Church was near their
home, and Pastor Johannes Lunde confirmed Bertel there.

Bertel attended
Stavanger public school for eight years, during which time he learned how to
play the trumpet and participated in the school band. Rather than continuing on
to a middle school like his brother and sister, Bertel went into a bookbinding
apprenticeship after his eight years of public school. For four years, he went
to technical evening school and was employed by a second generation German, who
took Bertel and the other apprentices on trips to Germany, Denmark, and Sweden.
Bertel's apprenticeship concluded in 1924, after which Bertel went to a trade
school in Copenhagen for three months. In an effort to make a descent living,
Bertel decided to immigrate to America in April 1927. After working in New York
for a couple of months, he went to Minnesota, where he had an uncle. Bertel's
uncle arranged a job for him with Augsburg's Publishing House, and Bertel
joined the Bookbinder's Union. After three years, he returned to Norway, but
later came back to America and found more bookbinding jobs.

On his
second trip to Norway, Bertel met his future wife, Julie, who was from Mandal,
Norway. Julie was returning to Norway on the "Stavangerfjord" and Bertel on the
"Bergensfjord," but after the "Stavangerfjord" lost its propeller in the middle
of the Atlantic, it had to return to New York, and Bertel ended up on the
"Bergensfjord" with Julie. They were married in July 1936 in Norway and then
moved to Brooklyn, New York, where their children, Oddrun and Karhild, were
born. Not wanting his children to grow up in Brooklyn, Bertel and his family
returned to Oslo, Norway in 1939. Upon this return to Norway, Bertel received
his master bookbinder certificate and got a job managing a bindery.

When World War II began, Bertel attempted to leave Norway again but could
not. Due to German inspections and keeping up with what the Norwegian
publishers wanted, work was difficult for Bertel during the war, and when the
war ended, Bertel and his family returned to the United States. At this time,
Bertel and Julie now had another child, Bjornulf. Bertel worked in Birmingham,
Alabama and Spokane, WA before permanently settling in Tacoma, WA, where he
worked for Pioneer Printing Company and the Washington State Printing Plant. In
Tacoma, Bertel also joined the Normanna Male Chorus, the Sons of Norway, and
Nordmann Forbundet, an organization for Norwegians living outside of Norway. He
and Julie have visited Norway in 1975, 1976, 1977, 1978, 1979, and 1981, and
after he retired, they began speaking mostly Norwegian in their home. According
to Bertel, "Har du noe aa si, saa snakk norsk," which means "if you have
something to say, then say it in Norwegian."

This interview was conducted with Bertel Gilje on July 21, 1982 in Tacoma,
Washington. It contains information about family background, education,
occupation, emigration, community activities, and Norwegian heritage. Also
available is a letter from Bertel to Dr. Janet Rasmussen in regards to PLU's
"Scandinavian Immigrant Experience." The interview was conducted in English.

Restrictions on Use

Custodial History

The Oral History collection
project was started during an experimental course on Scandinavian Women in the
Pacific Northwest. Students in the course were encouraged to interview women
and learn about their experiences as immigrants to the United States. The
project was continued and expanded with support from the president's office and
by grants from the L.J. Skaggs and Mary C. Skaggs Foundation, from the Joel E.
Ferris Foundation and the Norwegian Emigration Fund of the Royal Norwegian
Ministry of Foreign Affairs. The project was directed by Dr. Janet E.
Rasmussen. The collection was transferred to the Archives and Special
Collections Department.

Acquisition Information

Related Materials

Processing Note

The interview was conducted by
Morrene Nesvig using a cassette recorder. A research copy was also prepared
from the original. To further preserve the content of the interview, it is now
being transferred to compact disc. We deliberately did not transcribe the
entire interview because we want the researchers to listen to the interviewee's
own voice. The transcription index highlights important aspects of the
interview and the tape counter numbers noted on the Partial Interview
Transcription are meant as approximate finding guides and refer to the location
of a subject on the cassette/CD. The recording quality is good

The
collection was transcribed by Mary Sue Gee, Julie Peterson and Becky Husby.

Bibliography

Rasmussen, Janet Elaine. New Land
New Lives: Scandinavian Immigrants to the Pacific NorthwestTacoma, WashingtonUniversity of Washington
Press1993

The partial interview transcription
highlights important aspects of the interview. Numbers may be used as guides to
important subjects. Two numbers separated by a slash indicate that the first
number is for cassette and the second for CD.

Container(s)

Description

Cassette

181, side 1

024:

Bertel Pedersen Gilje. Pedersen was his father's family name.
Bertel was baptized after his maternal grandfather who came from the town of
Gilje, 60 kilometers from Stavanger. Bertel's father took his family name,
Pedersen and his place of birth, Norbotn. Bertel was born on November 10, 1903
in Stavanger, Norway.

181, side 1

096: PARENTS

Andreas Pedersen and Karen Gilje. The Gilje name followed
Bertel because he was the youngest boy in the family. Father used to be a cook
on a sailing ship. Sailed to Spain, Italy, and the Mediterranean. He stopped
sailing after he got married. He worked as a longshoreman in Stavanger during
WWI.

181, side 1

165: BROTHERS AND
SISTERS

Five sisters and two brother,
Anna, Talette, Marie, Andrea all of the sisters took the family name Pedersen.
Brother, Peder Pedersen Norbotn took the paternal grandfather's name.

181, side 1

274: GRANDPARENTS

Paternal grandfather was a schoolteacher from
Sundfjord north (?) of Bergen. He drowned when fishing for kveite (halibut).
Bertel never met him. His grandfather's name was Norbotn. He had several
sisters in the U.S. Maternal grandfather was a farmer. Died when 60 years old.
Grandmother lived to be 93 years old. Many in the Gilje family lived to be
quite old.

181, side 1

360: CHILDHOOD

Grew up in Stavanger. Sankt Johannes Park and Church
were near his home. Bertel was confirmed at this church. Went to Johannes
Skole. The pastor at the church was Johannes Lunde (?) who was bishop in Oslo
after he'd been in Stavanger for 10 or 15 years.

181, side 1

395: STAVANGER

A growing city. Bertel's father built his home two
blocks from the city line. Many of the Giljes bought farmland around
Stavanger.

181, side 1

437: FATHER'S WORK

Mostly long shoring. Knew how to prepare herring,
salted it and put it in big barrels. He often helped pack fish.

181, side 1

456: CHILDHOOD HOME

: Three-story home. Bertel's father would rent out the
basement or the first floor. They lived on the second floor for many years.
They eventually moved to the third floor because Bertel's father wanted to be
able to see the fjord and ships coming in. (See also I-782)

181, side 1

456: CHILDHOOD

(See also I-360) Learned to play trumpet in the
school band. The first school band festival was in 1918. Bertel was 10 years
old when he started in 1913. They had this festival every other year. Played in
Oslo and Baerum. 2000 boys from all over Norway played. His first trip out of
Stavanger was when his band took the boat to Oslo to play in the festival. They
played for the king.

181, side 1

574: WORK

Bertel, his wife, and two of their children moved from the
U.S. to Norway to take a position as a bookbinder in Oslo. For half a year,
they lived up by Holmenkollen Ski Jump in Oslo. Then they got a house in
Baerum.

181, side 1

602: CHILDHOOD

(See also I-360 and I-456) Bertel attended the public
school in Stavanger for eight years. His brother and sister went to middle
school but Bertel went into a bookbinding apprenticeship. His family had
friends in the printing trade. He spent four years going to a technical evening
school. His employer was second generation German. He gave all his apprentices
a trip out in the world. Mostly to Denmark, Germany, and Sweden. When Bertel's
apprenticeship was over in 1924, he was sent to a trade school in Copenhagen
for three months. Business was slow for the German in 1926 so some of the
single men were laid off. Bertel was out of work except for the money he had
made from playing in the band.

181, side 1

681: REASONS FOR COMING TO
AMERICA

Had to pay city tax even if you
weren't working. The city band was paid 800 Nkr for playing in the city park
during the summer. Bertel had to pay 800 Nkr in taxes that year. Bertel
couldn't make a living as a musician so he quit. He decided to go to America.
Relatives living in the U.S. came to Norway to visit. Bertel went to the U.S.
with them in April 1927.

181, side 1

735: TRIP TO
AMERICA

The ship went from Oslo to
Stavanger. It took thirteen days to get to Brooklyn, New York. The ship was
like a big hotel. They listened to the band play every day. Ate three meals a
day.

181, side 1

766: NEW YORK

Got a job in Minneola through a relative. Worked
there for a couple of months. Hadn't planned on staying in New York. Had an
uncle in Minnesota. Earned money to go to Minnesota.

181, side 1

782: FEELINGS ABOUT LEAVING
NORWAY

Came on the Stavangerfjord. Was
happy to leave. His father had a big family to take care of. Bertel didn't want
to be a bother to his family. He lived with his parents until he left for
America. The house had room for 6 or 7 children. Bertel had his room up in the
attic. From his window, he could see over the city, the harbor, and the fjord.
Beautiful scenery. Could see mountains too.

181, side 1

823: FIRST IMPRESSIONS OF THE
U.S.

Streets and location were beautiful.
They weren't far from the Norwegian Seaman's Church in Brooklyn, New York. Had
to travel over an hour to get to work. There were many Norwegians around. He
had studied one year of English while in Norway as well.

181, side 1

859: WORK

Bookbinding (See also I-574) Intended to find work in the
printing trade. His uncle in Minnesota arranged a job for him with Augsburg's
Publishing House in Minneapolis. Bertel worked on his uncle's farm for only six
weeks before he got the job in Augsburg's, He joined the Bookbinder's Union.
Bertel has a certificate from Norway, which certifies that he is a bookbinder.

181, side 1

918: WORKING IN
NORWAY

(See also I-574) Went back to
Norway to work as a bookbinder three years after he'd started working as a
bookbinder in the U.S. He went back to Norway in 1939 and became a master
bookbinder. He explains the certificate he received which qualifies him as a
master bookbinder.

181, side 1

974: MINNESOTA

Lived by himself. There were many Norwegians in
Minneapolis. People in Norway were out of work after WWI so they came to the
U.S. He was lucky to come to the U.S. with relatives and to have relatives to
help him.

181, side 1

995: BOOKBINDING
TRADE

Bound mostly library books, special
bindings. Sew, glue, make covers, and printed titles, and authors on the books.
It took two and a half hours to bind one book. He learned the trade in Norway
(See also I-602). Folkeboksamlingens bøker (Norway's variety of libraries)
ordered books from the company Bertel worked for in Oslo. They could make 100
books at a time and put them in storage until the libraries sent in their
orders.

181, side
1

1039: DIFFICULTIES IN AMERICA

(See
also I-823) The English language was a problem in the beginning, but there were
so many Scandinavians in Minnesota that it was difficult to get along. Got
bookbinding job with R.R. Donnelley Printing Company. Got a job through the
union working for economy advertising company in Iowa City, which is a
university town. Worked there for three months on school annuals at the
university. Got away from Norwegians and met many students. Most of the
students were Americans. Helped his English.

181, side 1

1094: COMPARISON OF PAY IN
NORWAY AND THE U.S.

Pay was much better
in the U.S. He had borrowed money to come to the U.S. from his sister in
Norway. After working in a lumberyard for one month, he was able to pay back
his sister. He had a good salary in Minneapolis, Minnesota. The union had him
working as long as there was work to do.

181, side 2

005: WORK

The union let him go. He went back to Iowa City in April and
worked for three months on the university's yearbooks. (See also I-1039). Got
his next job as a bookbinder in Des Moines, Iowa.

181, side 2

074: MEETING SPOUSE

Met on Bertel's second trip back to Norway. He was on
the Bergensfjord and she was on the Stavangerfjord. Stavangerfjord lost its
propeller in the middle of the Atlantic. Had to go back to New York. Bertel and
his wife-to-be ended up on the same boat. They were married in July 1936 in
Norway. Before marrying they would go to a Norwegian Youth Organization in
Brooklyn, New York together.

181, side 2

200: CHILDREN

Oddrun and Karhild were both born in Brooklyn,
NY.

181, side 2

210: WORK IN NORWAY

Bertel didn't want his children to grow up in New
York. He applied for a job as a bookbinder in Oslo, Norway. Bertel was still a
Norwegian citizen. His job was to take care of the bindery, which had 64
bookbinders, employed. This company had what was called a "Salmeboks forlaget."
They published books for the church. They also published for the libraries of
Norway, "Folkeboksamlingens Ekspedisjon." The bindery would bind 200 or 300
copies of a book and when the libraries wanted it they could just write to this
department. (See also I-574).

181, side 2

272: WWII

They came to Norway in June, 1939. In April 1940 the Germans
occupied Norway. Bertel tried to get out of Norway but no boats were leaving
Norway at that time. Bertel had a good, steady job, but it was tough. The
Germans came in everyday to inspect what they were doing and what they should
do for them. They found out that Bertel had a lot of genuine leather. They paid
Bertel for what they took and Bertel raised his prices. They also got Bertel
other materials he needed. They would give all bookbinder supervisors in the
city of Oslo supplies such as thread, glue, cardboard, and cloth. They had a
hard time keeping up with what the Norwegian publishers wanted. Bertel could
supply publishers with 200-500 copies but he could not fill orders for 10,000
copies. He couldn't use quality materials for 10,000 copies. Bertel stayed in
Norway until the war was over. He wrote to Book Production Magazine in New
York. He put an ad in this magazine. Two print shops wrote to him, offering him
jobs after the war was over. Bertel didn't want to stay in Norway after the
war. His experience there had been disappointing.

181, side 2

436: WORK IN THE
U.S.

Got a job with the Military Service
Company. Bertel was supposed to take care of subscriptions for different
magazines ordered from different military services in the United States. He was
supposed to make binders. Bertel had to move to Birmingham, Alabama from
Norway. Alabama was too hot for him. He started a bookbindery for them. Bertel
worked there for four years.

181, side 2

510: MOVING TO WASHINGTON
STATE

Bertel didn't like it Alabama. The
people he worked with were not cooperative. He read an ad in a newspaper. A man
in Spokane, Washington was selling his bindery. His name was Arneson, a
Scandinavian name. Bertel wrote to him. He wanted to buy the bindery in
Spokane. He made a deal with Arneson that he should stay and help out for three
months until Bertel got organized. Bertel took it over in September 1954.
Bertel had a car but no driver's license. He found a truck driver in Birmingham
who would take them to Spokane with a truckload of furniture and belongings.
Three days after they came to Spokane, Bertel had to organize the bindery.
Arneson got sick and died three days later. One of Arneson's sons was a
bookbinder in South Dakota. He didn't want to take over his father's business.
The other son was a union representative in Los Angeles, California. Bertel was
in Spokane for eight months and did fairly good business, but the bindery
wasn't in very good condition.

181, side 2

623: MOVING TO
TACOMA

Bertel was asked by Pioneer
Printing Company of Tacoma to take the position of foreman in the bookbindery.
He didn't want to stay in Spokane so he left. He liked his job in Tacoma. Later
the Washington State Printing Plant needed a man and Bertel wanted to work for
the. This was a civil service job. His wife found their house for them.

181, side 2

666: CITIZENSHIP

(See also I-210) 1951 when he was in Birmingham,
Alabama.

181, side 2

680: NORWEGIAN
ORGANIZATIONS

Sang in the Normanna Male
Chorus in Tacoma from 1955-1981. Sons of Norway. Nordmanns Forbundet, an
organization for Norwegians living outside of Norway; headquarters are in
Oslo.

181, side 2

741: TRIPS TO
NORWAY

April 1981, stayed four to five
months. They brought one of their grandchildren with them. They went in 1975
also. They stayed about three months. They visited his family in Stavanger and
his wife's family. Traveled around Sørlandet. Their granddaughter, who was
almost 18 then went with them in 1981. She had her driver's license so she
could drive all over Norway. They stopped in Gothenburg (Göteborg), Sweden and
got a car. The granddaughter drove 7,000 miles in Norway. They drove around
southern Norway first. Bertel's wife Julie is from the Kristiansand area. They
also drove through Telemark to Haugesund. Drove to Karmoey and took a ferry to
Stavanger.

181, side 2

859: NORWEGIAN TRADITIONS AND
CULTURE

The other children and
grandchildren don't take as much interest in the traditions and culture as this
one granddaughter does. His three children speak Norwegian. Karhild and her
family took a trip to Norway in 1969.

181, side 2

904: THE NORWEGIAN LANGUAGE IN
THE HOME

They spoke mostly English while
Bertel was working in the print shops. They speak mostly Norwegian know that
he's retired.

181, side 2

915: EXAMPLE OF
NORWEGIAN

"Har du noe å si, så snakk
norsk!" (if you have something to say, then say it in Norwegian!)

181, side 2

932: FEELINGS ABOUT NORWAY AND
THE U.S.

Bertel feels he belongs to the
U.S. just as much he belongs to Norway. When he is in Stavanger, he remembers
playing in the city band during his childhood. They played at several
dedications of various statutes and monuments in Stavanger. He tells about the
dedication of a monument in Stavanger in July 1925. This monument was for those
who had emigrated from Norway between 1825 and 1925. Many of the older people
in Stavanger remember Bertel. He and his wife went to Norway in 1975, 1976,
1977, 1978, and 1979. His wife had a stroke in 1980 so they didn't go. They
went again in 1981. Bertel would have gone in 1982 but Norway cut off his
social security in March 1982. Bertel and his daughter have sent a protest
because they've been property taxes, electricity, and water for the cabin they
inherited from Bertel's oldest sister.

181, side 2

1086: NORMANNA MALE
CHORUS

(See also II-680) Quit singing in
1981. His voice isn't good anymore. Bertel misses not singing in the choir.