This is a discussion on How to tell an 8 from someone who had a rough childhood within the Type 8 Forum - The Challenger forums, part of the Body Triad - Types 8,9,1 category; after reading Riso and Hudson's description of type 8, it occurred to me that most people who suffered a traumatic ...

How to tell an 8 from someone who had a rough childhood

after reading Riso and Hudson's description of type 8, it occurred to me that most people who suffered a traumatic childhood and had to become stronger/more independent to overcome life obstacles would relate to almost all of it (I related to nearly all of it myself and I'm a 7w6). what are some good ways to tell the difference between someone from such a background and an 8?
@n2freedom
@Boss
@Paradigm
@Wake

Look into the core motivations. Read as much as you can. No one give a set of differences between real '8s' and those with complex life histories. I match both the childhood development patterns for 8 and 3, 8 more than 3 actually. It's up to the individual to peel layers of reactions/thoughts/emotions/attachments to one's self image etc. to get to what' really at the core. And, RH's 8 description isn't the best because it lionizes the type too much, and a lot of superego 6 and 1 traits (healthy levels) are attributed to 8. It's why I suggest that people don't stick with RH's works alone when self typing, especially if you have a lot of varied and complex life experiences.

after reading Riso and Hudson's description of type 8, it occurred to me that most people who suffered a traumatic childhood and had to become stronger/more independent to overcome life obstacles would relate to almost all of it (I related to nearly all of it myself and I'm a 7w6). what are some good ways to tell the difference between someone from such a background and an 8?

It seems Riso and Hudson material can vacillate from book to book and what's published on the internet. So to ensure we are comparing apples to apples. What was the source of Riso and Hudson's description you are referring to? Was it on the internet? And/Or, which book?

It seems Riso and Hudson material can vacillate from book to book and what's published on the internet. So to ensure we are comparing apples to apples. What was the source of Riso and Hudson's description you are referring to? Was it on the internet? And/Or, which book?

I'll have to ask Wake, he's the one who sent it to me (I could probably just forward you the message)

I'll have to ask Wake, he's the one who sent it to me (I could probably just forward you the message)

Okay, I glanced at the information and it is not from the R&H book I have at home. Let me read it when I get home and I will share my thoughts with you then. Thanks for sharing because I do like to compare and contrast different sources. Will post later.

after reading Riso and Hudson's description of type 8, it occurred to me that most people who suffered a traumatic childhood and had to become stronger/more independent to overcome life obstacles would relate to almost all of it (I related to nearly all of it myself and I'm a 7w6). what are some good ways to tell the difference between someone from such a background and an 8?

Well, the Enneagram says that we form an reliance on one of the nine motivations and such things create reoccurring thoughts throughout our experience. If the person relies on the 8's instinctive survival instincts instead of the other then that is what is necessary to differentiate them. RH did state in his childhood pattern that it is not to be used as the only cause of what makes a type, but things he noticed and appears to play some role in the process.

My position is that each individual is more vulnerable to certain types' motivation based on their innate physical characteristics than others, and when the time comes when they experience this motivation they attach themselves to it or not.

@Swordsman of Mana, your scenario of people identifying with a type on a lower level may match the beliefs of either a tritype theory or my own which is that we gain a varying level of influence from each motivation throughout our lives and place a varying degree of acceptance of it into our lives based on what we think the world needs.

@Swordsman of Mana .... I just read the information more carefully. And, yes it is from the book I have Wisdom of the Enneagram, therefore I stand corrected. @Wake is correct in that the childhood pattern is a common childhood pattern found among 8s vs this childhood pattern creates an 8.

Back to the question proposed in your OP....my thoughts are this...core motivations/desires/fears, core motivations/desires/fears, core motivations/desires/fears. I relate to most of the descriptions of type 4, 5, and 7 but I know that my core motivations/desires/fears do not align with any of them. For instance, as you know I originally mistyped as a 7w8 mainly due to test results and also going based on the descriptions in R&H and Palmer's book without really understanding how the descriptions correlated to the underlying core motivations/desires/fears of each type. I know I love freedom, I love to have fun, and I avoid pain. But my underlying reasons for freedom, fun, and avoiding pain are primarily motivated by different reasons.

After delving deeper within myself, I realized my motivations for avoiding pain was not rooted in fear but because collapsing into pain for lack of better words was for the faint hearted. Emotions other than anger, I viewed as someone who was out of control and weak. Funny huh? Because many others would view someone who was expressing anger in the same manner. When I took out my Pandora's box and looked inside I realized that I had some pretty fucked up notions about emotions and life in general.

How do you tell the difference? core motivations/desires/fears. All I can say is this...it's not easy being an 8 in my experience. It's not glorious being an 8 either. My inner workings have been a very dark, lonely, and empty place. My life has felt like one fighting match after another. It seems as if I'm not fighting for one thing it's another. Fight, Fight, Fight, struggle, struggle, struggle....that's what it feels like to me.

Another thing while the world looks on in admiration mixed with jealously you get a mixed bag of apples of bullshit to sort through on a daily basis because people perceive you as the one who has it all together, the strong one, the iron lady as I was referred to by my ex husband. You get treated like you don't have feelings because you have become so gifted in concealing them and have deep determination not to reveal them. Why? because you view feelings as road maps and gateways for people to have access to you to hurt you or to take advantage of you.

I don't know where to begin or where to end. I don't know how trauma impacts an individual's core personality when it comes to the Enneagram, MBTI, or any other personality type for that matter. But, this is what I do believe if you relate to the strategies, underlying core/motivations/desires and if by being aware of the red flags and making the conscious effort to catch yourself in the act and take a different course of action helps to improve your relationship with yourself and with others based on the assumption you're an Eight then you're probably are an Eight.

See that is why I love the Enneagram...especially the way Riso and Hudson and Palmer have written their books. First of all they are in layman terms. Secondly, they can help you connect the dots between your behavioral choices and your motivations/desires/fears if that is what you choose to use the information for. I like Maitri and Naranjo as well because they delve into the darker neurotic sides of each of the types however I doubt if the average person wants to look that deep within themselves. But, either way whatever the material...I think the bigger question is why do I need to know my type and why am I researching this information? For me is because I want to be a better, happier person who make choices that genuinely empower me...not give me results in the interim with a bunch of casualties to show for it.

I see the Enneagram as a diagnoses of sort...so if I diagnose wrong then I will consequently treat the wrong symptoms so to speak. Time will reveal if you are treating wrong symptoms because they will persist and your world won't look much better than it already does at the current moment. I use it as a tool to transcend not relish in this is what I am...ha ha ha ha. All of this reminds me of the saying "Just because you are in the church doesn't make you a Christian any more than sitting in a garage all day makes you a car."

I've only found myself relating to parts (if, at all) of 8 childhood development scenarios that I've read.

I'm not a wall street tycoon, I wasn't a bully, I didn't experience abuse- where would that leave me if I only relied on childhood descriptions? I certainly wouldn't identify as an 8.

Regardless of childhood or experiences- you should be able to relate to the fear, motivation/drive and vice of your type. I could relate to so much about type four- but when it comes down to it; I couldn't relate to the 4 fear or vice. From my experience, trying to find indicators in behaviors and childhood can easily cause confusion.

If you're an 8-you're an 8 because you identify with the fear, motivation/drive and vice- NOT because of your childhood or specific behaviors.

8's fear looking vulnerable, so it would be a big shock if you saw them cry or talk about their fears out out loud in person, in an environment full of people they don't trust (mostly in public). A non-8 probably wouldn't show the hesitation to do such a thing.

However, I'm more curious if american male societal norms would interfere with this observation. American men are more or less taught that crying and admitting weakness is for sissies. So its hard to say if what I wrote above holds any actual merit.

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