Telstra may be deploying brand new greenfields copper

news The Department of Communications has published statistics which appear to show that incumbent telco Telstra has deployed brand new copper to hundreds of new development premises around Australia, as a direct result of the Turnbull Government’s new greenfields NBN policy.

Today NBN blogger Kenneth Tsang reported on his jxeeno blog that the Department of Communications had updated its ongoing registrar of telecommunications providers in new developments. Click here for Tsang’s full article.

However as Tsang reported, the document has become peppered with references to “copper” network installations since it has been updated, with about 420 new developments having received new copper connections provided by Telstra.

The data suggests that, as new developments by definition did not previously have telecommunications infrastructure, Telstra may be deploying brand new copper cables to homes and business premises in some regions of Australia as they are built, instead of deploying next-generation fibre cables to those new premises.

Delimiter has contacted Telstra and the NBN company to invite both to respond to the situation.

If Telstra is indeed deploying brand new copper to greenfields developments around Australia, this move would appear to have come about as a direct result of a new policy enacted in this area by Malcolm Turnbul, when the Member for Wentworth was Communications Minister under Tony Abbott’s Coalition Government.

Previously, the NBN company was broadly to deploy its own Fibre to the Premises network to new greenfields developments under Labor’s NBN policy. This meant that the NBN company was able to provide a uniform platform across Australia for broadband infrastructure, but also cut out smaller providers such as Opticomm, which had developed a business rolling infrastructure into new developments.

Labor had already modified this policy somewhat, but Turnbull released a policy in May 2015 which saw this policy changed against substantially, with developers to choose amongst competing infrastructure providers, and the NBN company remaining the infrastructure provider of last resort in developments with 100 premises or more within its footprint. Telstra was to remain the provider of last resort in developments with fewer than 100 lots and in developments outside the NBN fixed line footprint.

It appears, given the listing highlighted by Tsang, that Telstra has interpreted this responsibility as meaning that, if it is the provider of last resort in a greenfields location, that it may deploy copper infrastructure instead of fibre.

If this is the case, it would not represent the first time that brand new copper was deployed under Turnbull’s controversial NBN model. In October last year, the NBN company revealed it had purchased some 1800km of brand new copper cable at a cost of about $14 million, to ensure that the Fibre to the Node technology model preferred by Malcolm Turnbull’s Coalition Government would function correctly.

opinion/analysis
I would welcome further commentary from Telstra and/or the NBN company on this issue: I think we don’t quite have the full picture as to what is going on here. In addition, the copper rollout we are discussing here may not be heterogenuous — Telstra may have decided to put in a bit of copper here, a bit of copper there, for small locations where it was easier to do so quickly rather than deploying fibre or waiting for the NBN company to deploy fibre. Some of this may be justifiable, depending on each situation.

I will say one thing, however. If I bought a house in a new development, I would be pretty irritated if Telstra deployed brand new copper cable to that house, instead of fibre …

73 COMMENTS

We need a class action because the value of the properties will be less. The theft from the Australian people because of less economic activity. The LNP should be sued for damages. Maybe we can use the TPP for that?

Yep this is silly, more proof of the mess the government has made of the nbn and giving telstra backs its monopoly.

My new apartment complex has terrible new copper incapable of more than 8mbits on adsl… should have just ran fibre… should not be an option to put copper in now. It cost a ton to do, will have to be changed to fit the fttn, etc etc… installing new copper is a waste of money.

“Telstra may have decided to put in a bit of copper here, a bit of copper there, for small locations where it was easier to do so quickly rather than deploying fibre or waiting for the NBN company to deploy fibre”

I will do a ground visit tomorrow, but I say with high degree of confidence that Telstra has deployed new copper Pillar, Conduit and Copper run off Arnold Avenue in Kellyville since mid-2014. FTTP site in same location, including one directly across the road, have been in place since 2013.

This meant that the NBN company was able to provide a uniform platform across Australia for broadband infrastructure, but also cut out smaller providers such as Opticomm, which had developed a business rolling infrastructure into new developments.

Cutting out cowboys like OptiComm was a good thing – while at the now iiTPGborg I saw so many issues including:

* Microwave backhaul used to some FTTP estates (even in 2010 100/100mbps MW for backhaul was a poor joke)
* completely unreliable non-telco grade VoIP implementation – we had to supply separate VoIP ATA’s to customers to avoid getting whacked by the TIO after repeated failures of OptiComm to resolve the issues.

sadly i am one of those people affected under the telstra copper cop out.

suburb was zoned for FTTP commencing 2016 but then FTTN was introduced for the suburb.
The developer had no idea that they had the power to chose FTTN or FTTH therefore my stage of the development is copper and the next stage is FTTH, now its going to cost me several thousand dollars from the closet fibre boundary to upgrade to FTTH

House is less than a year old, new estate in the Sunbury area. I’m not sure if it was the relatively small size of the estate, or the change of Government, but around a week or two before moving in, we got the confirmation from our ISP that the area is only served by Telstra Copper.

The estate developers were utterly CLUELESS what was being rolled to the estate. It seems they were going with whatever was default.

The utter raw kicker? Telstra don’t do RIMs anymore, it seems. We’re on a THREE KILOMETER long phone line. 5-6mbits for a brand new household in a brand new estate is not only stupid, it’s utterly unacceptable.

Who knows. Sunbury is apparently due for FTTN in March, 2016. I’m sure they probably typoed the number for the Year. >_>”

House is less than a year old, new estate in the Sunbury area. I’m not sure if it was the relatively small size of the estate, or the change of Government, but around a week or two before moving in, we got the confirmation from our ISP that the area is only served by Telstra Copper.

Shit, that sucks. Which estate are you in? We live in Rolling Meadows and were meant to get FTTP as you said, but it is now FTTN.

We are looking to build a new house, I thought any development over 100 lots would have guaranteed FTTP. I am glad I’ve heard about this, especially given it is an issue in Sunbury.

Who knows. Sunbury is apparently due for FTTN in March, 2016. I’m sure they probably typoed the number for the Year. >_>”

Rollout has started it seems, I saw a crew doing “network validation” a few weeks ago, and tonight I saw a horizontal borer and new ducts near to be installed near the golf course roundabout.

It’s one of the new estates near Sunbury Private Hospital. I don’t really want to shout my address live on the Internet, but the information given should be close enough reference.

I’m unsure if the new developments there are all considered the same development, or a lot of separate tiny estates. I get the feeling the size might have affected things, either way. Even if it did nonsensically mean Telstra rolling out brand new 3 kilometer long copper phone lines.

For note, the estates seem to be so new that Google doesn’t even show the individual addresses/lots yet.

The ultimate kicker? I was trying to lobby for us to move to one of the new estates in Diggers Rest instead, but, alas, that didn’t eventuate.

Boy I bet all you people who voted the Coalition into government are happy, don’t look behind or you will noticed that Abbott and Turnbull are butt fucking you and loving it.
Laying copper in greenfield developments, does it get worst YES, nodes that only come with 2Gb of bandwidth.

Wouldn’t have been a problem and if over 90% of houses got FTTP. Either way, the MTM is still a failure and doesn’t remove the problem. If they think an MTM wouldn’t influence house prices then they are wrong. Houses closer to the nodes will obviously get better speeds than those further away and therefore likely to be worth more. Sorry to the folks who get satellite and wireless because their houses wouldn’t be worth very much. The MTM is already creating artificial demand not just between suburbs and cities, but within neighbourhoods and streets. How does the Coalition argument about MTM not influencing house prices hold up now? They are talking out of their asses as usual.

I honestly doubt its going to make that huge of a difference, if it does then you’d simply use the savings to get FoD etc. If people cared that much then the Libs wouldn’t have been able to lie their way into power.

Sure wireless/Satellite (esp the 200k extra) it probably will because those things are a little more obvious. Whilst the techies will probably look into distance from a node (assuming you can identify the correct one) good luck convincing the SO that the perfect house isn’t because its 750m away ;).

Goodness me. Keep us updated on this story. Government screws the people yet again. I sure hope they do not get a second term because they clearly do not want what is best for this country. There is no hope for Australia if they stay in. NBN was supposed to remove Telstra from the picture but instead brought them back to fix the copper and now lay new copper in greenfields. Absolutely useless bunch. I wish I got paid as much as they do to be that useless. So much for innovation.

I recently purchased a block of land in a new 22 lot subdivision. Purchase was off the plan and at the time I asked the developer about installing fibre to each lot but was told that Telstra had been contracted to provide the pits and pipes and they would be providing the lines when an application to connect was made. I then checked with NBN about the option for fibre to this subdivision only to be told that it is <100 lots so it is up to Telstra to provide the supporting infrastructure. No fibre for sure in Bolwarra Tops subdivision at Bolwarra Heights NSW. Yes I am very disappointed that Telstra can install copper lines to a greenfield site but that seems the only option as NBN are not interested.

Another day in the GimpCo saga yet another I told you so moment. If Telstra had it their way they wouldn’t have even rolled out ADSL2+. Rolling out copper in Greenfields indicative of that. Doesn’t matter how much or how little it is occurring it defies logic in 2016 and beyond. Coalition clowns could argue fibre speeds not needed just as they have done in the past so for them it probably would make sense. If they did that they would at least show some consistency for once rather than being hypocritical about the matter.

yeah they had the infrastructure in their DSLAM’s for several years but refused to toggle that 1 byte that would enable the higher tier and it literally was just a software setting holding things back :(.

“The Telecommunications Legislation Amendment (Fibre Deployment) Bill 2010 (the Bill) would insert a new Part 20A into the Telecommunications Act 1997 which would prohibit the installation of a (telecommunication) line[1] other than fibre-optic fixed-line infrastructure to the premises (FTTP)[2] or ‘fibre-ready’ fixed-line facilities[3] in greenfield developments[4] nationwide. The Bill provides an array of associated legislative mechanisms to support this primary purpose, in particular relying heavily on legislative instruments.”

I don’t know if it is against the law, but I’ll make a note to try and find out tomorrow, as I know a few people who would know.

“The Bill provides an array of associated legislative mechanisms to support this primary purpose, in particular relying heavily on legislative instruments.”

I suspect that either the law has changed (there were a few telco amendments passed over the past two years, particularly as part of the Omnibus regulatory repeal packages), or that as Communications Minister, Turnbull made a regulatory ruling to change it. Sometimes the Minister has that power, although Parliament can obviously disallow such a legislative instrument.

When FTTN was introduced the legislation was changed that suburb’s marked for FTTN have the option of FTTH or FTTN for all greenfield developments.

it’s purely up to the developer to opt Telstra or nbn

Which is the situation i’m in, was told its FTTH by sales and at this stage was still marked for FTTH on nbnco website later changed to FTTN as per Abbot/Turnbull brilliant idea *sarcasm*

but developer already contracted Telstra and were not aware they could use Fibre until i had raised the issue but have advised the next stage is FTTH but want nothing to do with assisting myself with making the current stage FTTH thus will costs me x dollars to “upgrade” to FTTH from the nearest fibre boundary which should be the next development otherwise will be the 2GB uplink Node approx 1km down the road, in which i still have to brunt the full costs for fibre and fibre distribution point for my street until neighbours apply for the same thing and i get “refunded” keeping in mind my house at this stage is the second to be built in the street.

I’m in the middle of building in a new estate in north Brisbane consisting of 16 lots. They were originally advertised as fibre connection but now they are stating its a fibre provision. First owner has just moved in and it looks like they are getting copper.

No, I think it is more likely that Telstra is just deploying copper out to a few new premises here and there, where it does not believe it is economical to roll a whole new fibre cable. I think this is probably a technical decision rather than a political one.

I moved into a brand new house in a brand new street in November 2015 (in Tas). I still don’t have ANY fixed line Internet, there is no fibre OR copper infrastructure under the road.

The whole street is just left high and dry. It looks like when we do eventually get something, we will be getting copper. The current ETA I am receiving from Telstra is 1-3 months (one of which has already passed, and already over a month of delays getting anything out of them).

If Telstra is not also future-proofing new drops by laying fibre (even if it wants to justify copper pairs for its own reasons), then the question should be asked whether it is disingenuously taking advantage of a loophole in order to collect payment again to add fibre in a future drop.

“By the end of 2011, 109,988 premises in greenfields estates remained on NBN Co’s waiting list.”

Aka premises left with no wired connection, relying on wireless BB and mobile telephony.

“Under the universal service obligations to provide fixed-line phone connections, Telstra would connect new housing estates of under 100 premises, typically with copper, while NBN Co would roll out fibre in estates larger than 100 homes.”

So it’s deja vu all over again right? In fact, it looks pretty much identical to the current policy. What were the words, “uniform platform”?

But yeah, sooo outrageous. Obviously we need the pitchforks and torches.

Another case of selective memory/outrage based on the party, not the result (not excepting Turnbull of course who described what he is now doing as “prejudice” when the ALP allowed the same to occur).

Org
We are not talking about past policy we are talking about current policy. That the current policy is network providers requires to supply nbn like services. Which Telstra isn’t. But nice article there but then this one show how private sector has failed again.

I have had the exact same situation when I build my house in a new estate of less than 100 houses.

When I moved in there wasnt a provider who could put in an internet service into my house. I called NBN and was told there are not obligated to put in NBN into my premise as the estate was less than 100 houses and was told to contact Telstra. When I contacted Telstra I was told that as the estate is a new estate it is a greenfield and I should contact NBN.

Nobody wanted to do anything and I was left with no choice but to use wireless broadband for about 2 months. I even complained to Telecommunication Ombudsman and was told that they would not be doing anything and I would have to go sort it out myself with Telstra or NBN, reason given was that in the statutory act providers are only required by statutory to provide consumers with a phone line and not an internet line! Are we in the 1950’s?

In the last resort my neighbours and I contacted the sales agent which sold us our lots and pressured our developer to get Telstra to do something about it if not we would be bringing a class action. Telstra after being pressured by the developer then decided to install copper cables in our dismay and left us with pretty slow connection (better than no connection though)!

In my opinion since its a greenfield NBN should have rolled out the fibres into our estate. It is an estate about 60 houses and due for expansion into more phases later on. Another estate down the road did get NBN because they are more than 100 houses! And we were only like 15km from CBD!

For god sake! Didnt the government or NBN think of all this during their policy planning stage? Gosh!

“reason given was that in the statutory act providers are only required by statutory to provide consumers with a phone line and not an internet line! ”

Well you have hit the nail on the head there, until the USO (Universal Service Obligation) is defined to include a minimum internet data connection speed and not just voice Telstra is not obligated to supply a first time residential service beyond that, which by default is a piggyback onto ADSL2+ if you are lucky enough if your exchange is DSLAM active with spare ports.

The ACCC, ACMA and ISP industry bodies like the CCC should be pushing for legislation for that change.

Comments are closed.

Book now available

Written by Delimiter Publisher Renai LeMay, The Frustrated State is the first in-depth book examining of how Australia’s political sector is systematically mismanaging technological change and crushing hopes that our nation will ever take its rightful place globally as a digital powerhouse and home of innovation.

Welcome! We were an energetic and engaged community of Australians who worked with or who were interested in technology -- all sorts of IT professionals, IT managers, CIOs, tech policy-makers and tech enthusiasts.