Run Faster, I assume you’re talking about Justin Wright...why would Withers have Justin Wright in for an official visit days before signing day only to then say he’s pulling an offer? Especially when we needed LB commits? That makes no sense, and that’s not what happened. Wright de-committed because his gf was going to cosmetology school in Tulsa, and he followed her there. Even on his official visit pictures, she was posting sad faces on social media and was saying she couldn’t deal with them being apart. Lo and behold, out of nowhere, he de-commits last minute from Texas State and in the span of a few hours is offered, commits, and signs with Tulsa. Your story smells. What’s unfortunate — but common in the recruiting process — is that recruits that de-commit last-minute, can really leave a hole in a recruiting class at a need position because there are no longer viable targets to recruit and/or inadequte time left to find one.

Wed Sep 19, 2018 1:41 pm

El Gato

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Joined: Wed Nov 30, 2005 4:56 pmPosts: 6401Location: Cedar Park

Re: Recruiting 2019: offers, commits/decommits, transfers

lancer wrote:

He means approval of UTEP since they were the bottom last year.

ahhh...ok.

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Wed Sep 19, 2018 2:01 pm

Bobcat.taxman

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Joined: Wed Jan 23, 2008 7:21 pmPosts: 7791Location: Austin

Re: Recruiting 2019: offers, commits/decommits, transfers

TXST_01 wrote:

Run Faster, I assume you’re talking about Justin Wright...why would Withers have Justin Wright in for an official visit days before signing day only to then say he’s pulling an offer? Especially when we needed LB commits? That makes no sense, and that’s not what happened. Wright de-committed because his gf was going to cosmetology school in Tulsa, and he followed her there. Even on his official visit pictures, she was posting sad faces on social media and was saying she couldn’t deal with them being apart. Lo and behold, out of nowhere, he de-commits last minute from Texas State and in the span of a few hours is offered, commits, and signs with Tulsa. Your story smells. What’s unfortunate — but common in the recruiting process — is that recruits that de-commit last-minute, can really leave a hole in a recruiting class at a need position because there are no longer viable targets to recruit and/or inadequte time left to find one.

Withers has done that a few times. Usually offers them a grey-shirt ("Grayshirts have commonly been used by programs that oversign, which means not having enough roster spots for all of their commits. Sometimes, coaches are up front about grayshirting from the beginning. However, other times, they will force grayshirts on athletes at the last minute, leaving them unable to find schools that will allow them to play immediately") or a PWO to try and sign another player. I bolded the second part because it is a bush move and that's why a lot of high school coaches have said they will never recommend TxSt to their players as long as this coaching staff is here.

Wed Sep 19, 2018 4:10 pm

chockyy

True Bobcat Fan

Joined: Fri Dec 02, 2005 9:47 pmPosts: 906

Re: Recruiting 2019: offers, commits/decommits, transfers

Bobcat.taxman wrote:

Withers has done that a few times. Usually offers them a grey-shirt ("Grayshirts have commonly been used by programs that oversign, which means not having enough roster spots for all of their commits. Sometimes, coaches are up front about grayshirting from the beginning. However, other times, they will force grayshirts on athletes at the last minute, leaving them unable to find schools that will allow them to play immediately") or a PWO to try and sign another player. I bolded the second part because it is a bush move and that's why a lot of high school coaches have said they will never recommend TxSt to their players as long as this coaching staff is here.

To which recruits? Which high school coaches are mad? Why on earth would a college coach deliberately sabotage the very relationships that will make or break his career? Frankly, these and other similar accusations sound like fiction. Until better information comes out on that front, I personally don't buy it.

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Wed Sep 19, 2018 5:33 pm

run faster

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Joined: Fri Feb 16, 2018 5:50 pmPosts: 378

Re: Recruiting 2019: offers, commits/decommits, transfers

El Gato wrote:

One of them went to Abilene Christian with no other offers, and the other, if we are to assume this is the one you are referring to, was Justin Wright, a 2* recruit that did have 5 offers: Tulsa(AAC), Louisiana Monroe(Belt), Nevada(MWC), Us(Belt), and Abilene Christian(FCS). So really 4 FBS offers and 2 from the Sun Belt, none from CUSA as you stated.

He also had an offer from UTEP. That makes 5 FBS offers and accounts for one from Conference USA.

El Gato wrote:

Odd though that his visit with TxSt was on 12/8/17, a full 3 months after Bowie played cooper(9/29/18) and he committed to Tulsa a month later on 1/19/18.

Odd that he would make a campus visit in December and Withers decides in that dead time of recruiting that this particular linebacker was soft 3 months ago? Since Bowie had their last playoff game in November the timeline again here is inconsistent.

Lots of holes in this story, just sayin.

There are no holes in the story. My source was directly involved in all of it, had absolutely no reason to fabricate any of it, and routinely told me stories about how disgusted he was by the unethical treatment of recruits and the most absurdly dumb decisions made in that program. This was just one of many.

Wright was not dropped on his official visit. He had already been committed. Again, his fucking family was ready to move here to be with Justin and his sister. His girlfriend, who another poster claimed was going to cosmetology school in Tulsa, was going to go to a different cosmetology school less than an hour from San Marcos. She went to Tulsa for school as a result of Justin getting dropped by Texas State and deciding on Tulsa, not the other way around.

TXST_01 wrote:

Run Faster, I assume you’re talking about Justin Wright...why would Withers have Justin Wright in for an official visit days before signing day only to then say he’s pulling an offer? Especially when we needed LB commits? That makes no sense, and that’s not what happened. Wright de-committed because his gf was going to cosmetology school in Tulsa, and he followed her there. Even on his official visit pictures, she was posting sad faces on social media and was saying she couldn’t deal with them being apart. Lo and behold, out of nowhere, he de-commits last minute from Texas State and in the span of a few hours is offered, commits, and signs with Tulsa. Your story smells. What’s unfortunate — but common in the recruiting process — is that recruits that de-commit last-minute, can really leave a hole in a recruiting class at a need position because there are no longer viable targets to recruit and/or inadequte time left to find one.

You have absolutely no clue what you're talking about. Wright didn't decommit on his official. Wright didn't decommit, period. He came for his official (with his entire family, including his divorced parents, step-mom, girlfriend, siblings, etc.). Days before signing day, after having been committed for more than four months to Texas State, his recruiting coach was instructed by Withers to drop his offer. That coach continued, mildly, to go to bat for him even though Withers had been negatively talking about Wright for months (entirely rooted in his son's comment about that high school team's defense being "soft"). Withers wanted the coach to do it over the phone. The recruiting coach felt the kid deserved to have it be done in person. Days before signing day, the recruiting coach made his in-home visit to the Wrights. At that point, he told them that the offer was no longer valid. I'm not positive about this, but I don't think they offered him a grayshirt. I believe they offered him a preferred walk-on opportunity with a strong chance of earning a scholarship at some point. Obviously, the kid and family were heartbroken as they had been committed for many months, had told his other offers that he was solid on Texas State, were looking forward to the siblings being together, and the father and step-mother were planning on moving to the area. They felt betrayed and were furious. It was solely a Withers decision, entirely against what the DC/recruiting coach/position coach wanted, and Withers was too much of a coward to make the call himself, so he sent the other coach to handle it.

That's the entire story, all absolutely truthful, and nothing has been left out. It wasn't a concern about qualifying, attitude, etc. Hell, if you're monitoring his/the girlfriend's social media, write the kid yourself. Pretend that you have a son being recruited by Texas State and wanted to get some feedback on Withers. See what the kid says.

chockyy wrote:

To which recruits? Which high school coaches are mad? Why on earth would a college coach deliberately sabotage the very relationships that will make or break his career? Frankly, these and other similar accusations sound like fiction. Until better information comes out on that front, I personally don't buy it.

He doesn't "deliberately sabotage" the relationships. His arrogance leads him to believe that he can either lie to the coaches and make excuses for the drop or that he won't need that school in the future.

If you think this is fiction, how about asking Cullen Wick what happened at Texas State? Cullen was a JUCO transfer with three years to play who is currently on the 2-deep at Tulsa as a sophomore. Cullen's brother plays in the NFL. Cullen, by all accounts, is a quality kid who had solid grades. His mother is a teacher in Texas. Cullen came for his official visit after having been offered. Cullen and his entire family loved the school and the program. However, there was one problem: Withers had already, on his own, decided that he wouldn't accept Cullen's commitment. Withers had made this decision before the official visit, yet still had Cullen and his family come. Worse, Cullen and his parents spend hundreds of dollars at the campus store after having decided that Texas State was where they wanted to be, and the staff allowed it to happen even though they already knew they weren't going to accept his commitment.

So, what happened? The last morning of his official visit, before his meeting with Withers where commitments routinely take place, either the position coach or recruiting coach (I can't recall which I was told) had to tell the Wicks at the hotel that they wouldn't be meeting with the head coach that morning like was scheduled. He had to explain to them that they weren't going to accept his commitment. Once again, having made the decision unilaterally, Withers was too much of a coward to meet with the family and explain the decision himself, so he had another coach do it to avoid having to meet with the family.

But that's not the end of the story. Cullen's JUCO coach was furious about what happened. He called Withers and demanded an explanation. Withers lied to him and said that during the visit, the players and player-host who were with Cullen over the weekend felt he was too quiet, a loner, and wasn't a good fit with the rest of the team. This was all bullshit. The JUCO coach admitted that the kid could be quiet at times, so he trusted Withers' word about what happened. Unfortunately for Texas State, the JUCO coach then contacted the recruiting director. The recruiting director, not aware of Withers' recent lie to the JUCO coach, explained that Withers had already decided not to take his offer before the official visit and brought him in as a backup, contingency plan in case they didn't get commits from other kids they were recruiting. The JUCO coach asked the recruiting director if the drop had anything to do with Cullen not fitting in with the Texas State team, allegedly being quiet/a longer, etc. The recruiting director, again not aware of Withers' recent lies to the JUCO coach, reiterated that the decision was made well before the official visit and had nothing to do with any of those things. The JUCO coach, again furious, called back Withers and let him know his thoughts. And the kid's mom being a teacher in Texas? You can be assured that school's head football coach found out how they were wronged.

But, again, if you think this is fiction from a source who was directly involved, feel free to contact Wick and ask. Give him the same story that I suggested with Justin Wright. Tell him you have a son being recruited by Texas State and wanted to know why he was scared off from Texas State and see what he says.

These two weren't the only ones Withers did this to. It happened the previous year, too, with other recruits. What Withers doesn't understand (well, one of many things) is that Texas State isn't Ohio State. Ohio State can play dirty in the recruiting game. You may get shut out of a school for a brief time, but you're Ohio State, so kids will still come there regardless. That's not the case at Texas State. You get a reputation, especially in Texas where the high school coaches are a brotherhood which is different in other states, and you're fucked.

Wed Sep 19, 2018 9:42 pm

ruwallydog

SuperCat

Joined: Wed Mar 21, 2007 3:04 pmPosts: 202Location: Chicago, IL

Re: Recruiting 2019: offers, commits/decommits, transfers

Holy Lord. If what you say is true...Withers needs to go. The hits just keep on coming.

Wed Sep 19, 2018 10:56 pm

BobcatCowboy

SuperCat

Joined: Tue Mar 05, 2013 5:43 pmPosts: 198

Re: Recruiting 2019: offers, commits/decommits, transfers

No high school coach is going to tell one of his student athletes not to go somewhere... If they interfere in a student's future like that then they shouldn't working with kids.

It would be pretty unethical for a coach to tell a kid to not go somewhere if the kid wants to go there

Thu Sep 20, 2018 9:14 am

chockyy

True Bobcat Fan

Joined: Fri Dec 02, 2005 9:47 pmPosts: 906

Re: Recruiting 2019: offers, commits/decommits, transfers

runfaster, i'm not going to call up Wick and roleplay to invalidate/validate your story, i'll just take your story with a grain of salt. In fact, I believe that what you're saying is a story that's been told, however, that doesn't mean it's the way it unfolded (although, i'm willing to believe it's possible). On that front, what are your thoughts on what the posters above were saying about the LB from cooper in re: to your first anecdote?

edit: but I agree - if that's what' going on, Withers needs to go.

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Thu Sep 20, 2018 9:31 am

Bobcat.taxman

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Re: Recruiting 2019: offers, commits/decommits, transfers

BobcatCowboy wrote:

No high school coach is going to tell one of his student athletes not to go somewhere... If they interfere in a student's future like that then they shouldn't working with kids.

It would be pretty unethical for a coach to tell a kid to not go somewhere if the kid wants to go there

High school coaches are mentors to their kids, and they will always look out for their best interests. If one of their athletes comes up to them and says "Coach, what do you think about me going to Texas State?" A good coach will lay it out like it is. "This is what they've done to other recruits, so be careful when dealing with them"

Or the more outright "I won't let you recruit my kids to your program because I want to protect them from shady recruiting practices."

Thu Sep 20, 2018 9:59 am

run faster

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Joined: Fri Feb 16, 2018 5:50 pmPosts: 378

Re: Recruiting 2019: offers, commits/decommits, transfers

chockyy wrote:

On that front, what are your thoughts on what the posters above were saying about the LB from cooper in re: to your first anecdote?.

I'm not sure what was said that I haven't already commented on. I am 100% positive that everything I said regarding the situation is accurate. The only question is if Texas State offered him a gray shirt just days before signing day or if they offered him a preferred walk-on with the opportunity to earn a scholarship.

Everything else is entirely accurate - the major reason his scholarship was taken away was because Withers' son told him that Cooper's defense was soft. He was entirely committed, loyal, and ready to sign with Texas State until he was blindsided by an in-home visit to break the news to him just days before signing day. Withers was too cowardly to make the call or visit himself, so he told another coach to do it over the phone. That coach felt the Wrights, being as loyal and committed as they had been, deserved it to be done in person.

What else are you referring to?

chockyy wrote:

edit: but I agree - if that's what' going on, Withers needs to go.

For clarification, I don't think he should be let go because of these incidents. He is far from the only coach who screws kids over in recruiting, is dishonest, and unethical. The difference is that most of the other coaches who do it can get away with it because the value of the school/program far outweighs some negative recruiting actions. Texas State is the complete opposite of that. They need every ounce of positive reputation and good-will that they can get.

Outside of some extreme situation, I think Withers deserves at least a full three years. However, if the team only gets two FBS wins this year (meaning they go 3-9), I think it is cause for him to have his contract bought out.

Thu Sep 20, 2018 7:04 pm

chockyy

True Bobcat Fan

Joined: Fri Dec 02, 2005 9:47 pmPosts: 906

Re: Recruiting 2019: offers, commits/decommits, transfers

run faster wrote:

For clarification, I don't think he should be let go because of these incidents. He is far from the only coach who screws kids over in recruiting, is dishonest, and unethical. The difference is that most of the other coaches who do it can get away with it because the value of the school/program far outweighs some negative recruiting actions. Texas State is the complete opposite of that. They need every ounce of positive reputation and good-will that they can get.

Exactly, I agree. I don't think he needs to go because the conduct is unforgivable, but because his methodology doesn't align with the realities of our program.

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Fri Sep 21, 2018 10:42 am

Larry Teis

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Joined: Tue Jul 12, 2016 2:25 pmPosts: 392

Re: Recruiting 2019: offers, commits/decommits, transfers

I’m surprised that people are shocked by this. In his first few months here, Withers was already burning bridges. Remember the Braeden Kent fiasco?

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