Comments

If he is half as good as the last reserve centre half who we signed from Everton, he will do for me.

Would that be the mighty Matt Woods?

[quote][p][bold]Rover since 1947[/bold] wrote:
[quote][p][bold]TurfMoor Tom[/bold] wrote:
Papering over the cracks again with substandard signings.
Not good enough Bowyer.[/p][/quote]If he is half as good as the last reserve centre half who we signed from Everton, he will do for me.[/p][/quote]Would that be the mighty Matt Woods?Blackburnley

Rover since 1947 wrote…

TurfMoor Tom wrote…

Papering over the cracks again with substandard signings.

Not good enough Bowyer.

If he is half as good as the last reserve centre half who we signed from Everton, he will do for me.

Would that be the mighty Matt Woods?

Score: 5

To.guy
5:00pm Sun 31 Aug 14

Football fans tend to react to the present and not think long term. I'm one who was disappointed with GB appt. Nothing major but just saw it as another easy cheap option by venkys and learning nothing from previous apps. Fans were pleased with the appt on the whole because they saw him as a decent guy who got the topic back to the pitch and that he wasn't there with a hidden agenda. That's ok if your ambition is to maintain the status quo but when you're aiming for promotion you need experience/leadershi
p/tactical guile etc. I don't see GB with that. He's learning. We can't find It with a learner at the helm.

Football fans tend to react to the present and not think long term. I'm one who was disappointed with GB appt. Nothing major but just saw it as another easy cheap option by venkys and learning nothing from previous apps. Fans were pleased with the appt on the whole because they saw him as a decent guy who got the topic back to the pitch and that he wasn't there with a hidden agenda. That's ok if your ambition is to maintain the status quo but when you're aiming for promotion you need experience/leadershi
p/tactical guile etc. I don't see GB with that. He's learning. We can't find It with a learner at the helm.To.guy

Football fans tend to react to the present and not think long term. I'm one who was disappointed with GB appt. Nothing major but just saw it as another easy cheap option by venkys and learning nothing from previous apps. Fans were pleased with the appt on the whole because they saw him as a decent guy who got the topic back to the pitch and that he wasn't there with a hidden agenda. That's ok if your ambition is to maintain the status quo but when you're aiming for promotion you need experience/leadershi
p/tactical guile etc. I don't see GB with that. He's learning. We can't find It with a learner at the helm.

Score: 2

TurfMoor Tom
6:49pm Sat 30 Aug 14

Papering over the cracks again with substandard signings.

Not good enough Bowyer.

Papering over the cracks again with substandard signings.
Not good enough Bowyer.TurfMoor Tom

Papering over the cracks again with substandard signings.

Not good enough Bowyer.

Score: -48

Bigman501
6:58pm Sat 30 Aug 14

Lets give this lad a chance. I have been calling out for us to sign a central defender, we probably need another one as well because Hanley is atrocious, but its a step in the right direction for sure. Our defence is comically bad at the moment, and this lad will hopefully sort it out. Still I have questions about certain individuals who consistently make errors and are caught out of position, but at least we finally signed a central defender.

Lets give this lad a chance. I have been calling out for us to sign a central defender, we probably need another one as well because Hanley is atrocious, but its a step in the right direction for sure. Our defence is comically bad at the moment, and this lad will hopefully sort it out. Still I have questions about certain individuals who consistently make errors and are caught out of position, but at least we finally signed a central defender.Bigman501

Lets give this lad a chance. I have been calling out for us to sign a central defender, we probably need another one as well because Hanley is atrocious, but its a step in the right direction for sure. Our defence is comically bad at the moment, and this lad will hopefully sort it out. Still I have questions about certain individuals who consistently make errors and are caught out of position, but at least we finally signed a central defender.

Score: 32

Harwoodstblue
7:41pm Sat 30 Aug 14

Duffy was the Championship defensive player of the year last season and how we need him. Some of those today were not good enough. Having said that we've been unlucky again with injuries already and not had a settled team . We need a big commanding figure at the heart of defence so let's hope this lad can do it.
Can't understand at all why the dingles are on here crowing tonight when they've just dropped to the rock bottom of the league ??? Doesn't look like any sort of achievement to me.

Duffy was the Championship defensive player of the year last season and how we need him. Some of those today were not good enough. Having said that we've been unlucky again with injuries already and not had a settled team . We need a big commanding figure at the heart of defence so let's hope this lad can do it.
Can't understand at all why the dingles are on here crowing tonight when they've just dropped to the rock bottom of the league ??? Doesn't look like any sort of achievement to me.Harwoodstblue

Duffy was the Championship defensive player of the year last season and how we need him. Some of those today were not good enough. Having said that we've been unlucky again with injuries already and not had a settled team . We need a big commanding figure at the heart of defence so let's hope this lad can do it.
Can't understand at all why the dingles are on here crowing tonight when they've just dropped to the rock bottom of the league ??? Doesn't look like any sort of achievement to me.

Score: 29

BlackburnRoversFC f*****g hate burnley
8:23pm Sat 30 Aug 14

Disgrace today Williamson shouldn't be on the pitch for me... Need a defender and duffy fits the bill so see what happens.

Disgrace today Williamson shouldn't be on the pitch for me... Need a defender and duffy fits the bill so see what happens.BlackburnRoversFC f*****g hate burnley

Disgrace today Williamson shouldn't be on the pitch for me... Need a defender and duffy fits the bill so see what happens.

Score: 16

A Rover 45 years and over
8:39pm Sat 30 Aug 14

Don't think it matters who GB brings in as he appears to be tactically inept and incapable of putting a sustained promotion push together.

Don't think it matters who GB brings in as he appears to be tactically inept and incapable of putting a sustained promotion push together.A Rover 45 years and over

Don't think it matters who GB brings in as he appears to be tactically inept and incapable of putting a sustained promotion push together.

Score: 11

Yeah_nice_one!
9:09pm Sat 30 Aug 14

at last bowyer is seeinh what the fans have seen for time. i know for sure when the players see the team sheet esp with williamson etc their heads must bow

at last bowyer is seeinh what the fans have seen for time. i know for sure when the players see the team sheet esp with williamson etc their heads must bowYeah_nice_one!

at last bowyer is seeinh what the fans have seen for time. i know for sure when the players see the team sheet esp with williamson etc their heads must bow

Score: 12

Rover since 1947
9:30pm Sat 30 Aug 14

TurfMoor Tom wrote…

Papering over the cracks again with substandard signings.

Not good enough Bowyer.

If he is half as good as the last reserve centre half who we signed from Everton, he will do for me.

[quote][p][bold]TurfMoor Tom[/bold] wrote:
Papering over the cracks again with substandard signings.
Not good enough Bowyer.[/p][/quote]If he is half as good as the last reserve centre half who we signed from Everton, he will do for me.Rover since 1947

TurfMoor Tom wrote…

Papering over the cracks again with substandard signings.

Not good enough Bowyer.

If he is half as good as the last reserve centre half who we signed from Everton, he will do for me.

Score: 13

mark anthony
9:38pm Sat 30 Aug 14

Yawn

Yawnmark anthony

Yawn

Score: -11

Rover since 1947
9:48pm Sat 30 Aug 14

Blackburnley wrote…

Rover since 1947 wrote…

TurfMoor Tom wrote…

Papering over the cracks again with substandard signings.

Not good enough Bowyer.

If he is half as good as the last reserve centre half who we signed from Everton, he will do for me.

Would that be the mighty Matt Woods?

It was indeed. By common consent the best uncapped centre half of his generation, and better than many who had been capped.

[quote][p][bold]Blackburnley[/bold] wrote:
[quote][p][bold]Rover since 1947[/bold] wrote:
[quote][p][bold]TurfMoor Tom[/bold] wrote:
Papering over the cracks again with substandard signings.
Not good enough Bowyer.[/p][/quote]If he is half as good as the last reserve centre half who we signed from Everton, he will do for me.[/p][/quote]Would that be the mighty Matt Woods?[/p][/quote]It was indeed. By common consent the best uncapped centre half of his generation, and better than many who had been capped.Rover since 1947

Blackburnley wrote…

Rover since 1947 wrote…

TurfMoor Tom wrote…

Papering over the cracks again with substandard signings.

Not good enough Bowyer.

If he is half as good as the last reserve centre half who we signed from Everton, he will do for me.

Would that be the mighty Matt Woods?

It was indeed. By common consent the best uncapped centre half of his generation, and better than many who had been capped.

Score: 11

NealB
12:59am Sun 31 Aug 14

Honest to god...

We concede because we don't defend as a team, our forwards and midfielders make it an almost impossible task to keep teams out because they don't make enough fouls in the other half... Look at how many free kicks we gave away on the edge of our own box and today and against Bournemouth from letting teams play far too easily out of their own half when we should be boxing them in. We're lacking a Dickov type player who will chase down defenders and force mistakes for 90 minutes... Rhodes doesn't work hard enough and it's a bad move not to sell for 12 million when we're lacking depth and quality at full back and centre midfield. His goals didn't get us in the playoffs last season and wont get us in the playoffs this season.

Bowyer somehow doesn't see these issues and I find it unbelievable to be honest. It's all well and good signing good defenders but even good defenders at the top level are protected and teams defend as a team.

Rivalry aside, Burnley presented this method absolutely textbook today and how other managers (not just Bowyer) don't take note of this style of play I find absolutely astounding. This isn't just something Dyche has introduced, Pearson, Mackay and many other managers understand attacking and defending AS A TEAM will get you out of this league.

Bottom line, these teams who get promoted don't have more ability than us, they work harder as a team than us and personally I find that the hardest thing to stomach.

Honest to god...
We concede because we don't defend as a team, our forwards and midfielders make it an almost impossible task to keep teams out because they don't make enough fouls in the other half... Look at how many free kicks we gave away on the edge of our own box and today and against Bournemouth from letting teams play far too easily out of their own half when we should be boxing them in. We're lacking a Dickov type player who will chase down defenders and force mistakes for 90 minutes... Rhodes doesn't work hard enough and it's a bad move not to sell for 12 million when we're lacking depth and quality at full back and centre midfield. His goals didn't get us in the playoffs last season and wont get us in the playoffs this season.
Bowyer somehow doesn't see these issues and I find it unbelievable to be honest. It's all well and good signing good defenders but even good defenders at the top level are protected and teams defend as a team.
Rivalry aside, Burnley presented this method absolutely textbook today and how other managers (not just Bowyer) don't take note of this style of play I find absolutely astounding. This isn't just something Dyche has introduced, Pearson, Mackay and many other managers understand attacking and defending AS A TEAM will get you out of this league.
Bottom line, these teams who get promoted don't have more ability than us, they work harder as a team than us and personally I find that the hardest thing to stomach.NealB

Honest to god...

We concede because we don't defend as a team, our forwards and midfielders make it an almost impossible task to keep teams out because they don't make enough fouls in the other half... Look at how many free kicks we gave away on the edge of our own box and today and against Bournemouth from letting teams play far too easily out of their own half when we should be boxing them in. We're lacking a Dickov type player who will chase down defenders and force mistakes for 90 minutes... Rhodes doesn't work hard enough and it's a bad move not to sell for 12 million when we're lacking depth and quality at full back and centre midfield. His goals didn't get us in the playoffs last season and wont get us in the playoffs this season.

Bowyer somehow doesn't see these issues and I find it unbelievable to be honest. It's all well and good signing good defenders but even good defenders at the top level are protected and teams defend as a team.

Rivalry aside, Burnley presented this method absolutely textbook today and how other managers (not just Bowyer) don't take note of this style of play I find absolutely astounding. This isn't just something Dyche has introduced, Pearson, Mackay and many other managers understand attacking and defending AS A TEAM will get you out of this league.

Bottom line, these teams who get promoted don't have more ability than us, they work harder as a team than us and personally I find that the hardest thing to stomach.

Score: 21

Garylla
2:23am Sun 31 Aug 14

I go back to California later today. Having seen Rovers concede 5 goals in 2 games but keep JR I go back being thankful we have the Venkys but wondering about GB's ability to get us promotion. We have the players but we don't have the tactics. Please sort it out before my next visit in November Gaz. COYB

I go back to California later today. Having seen Rovers concede 5 goals in 2 games but keep JR I go back being thankful we have the Venkys but wondering about GB's ability to get us promotion. We have the players but we don't have the tactics. Please sort it out before my next visit in November Gaz. COYBGarylla

I go back to California later today. Having seen Rovers concede 5 goals in 2 games but keep JR I go back being thankful we have the Venkys but wondering about GB's ability to get us promotion. We have the players but we don't have the tactics. Please sort it out before my next visit in November Gaz. COYB

Score: 9

greenscreener
8:19am Sun 31 Aug 14

NealB wrote…

Honest to god...

We concede because we don't defend as a team, our forwards and midfielders make it an almost impossible task to keep teams out because they don't make enough fouls in the other half... Look at how many free kicks we gave away on the edge of our own box and today and against Bournemouth from letting teams play far too easily out of their own half when we should be boxing them in. We're lacking a Dickov type player who will chase down defenders and force mistakes for 90 minutes... Rhodes doesn't work hard enough and it's a bad move not to sell for 12 million when we're lacking depth and quality at full back and centre midfield. His goals didn't get us in the playoffs last season and wont get us in the playoffs this season.

Bowyer somehow doesn't see these issues and I find it unbelievable to be honest. It's all well and good signing good defenders but even good defenders at the top level are protected and teams defend as a team.

Rivalry aside, Burnley presented this method absolutely textbook today and how other managers (not just Bowyer) don't take note of this style of play I find absolutely astounding. This isn't just something Dyche has introduced, Pearson, Mackay and many other managers understand attacking and defending AS A TEAM will get you out of this league.

Bottom line, these teams who get promoted don't have more ability than us, they work harder as a team than us and personally I find that the hardest thing to stomach.

You really are barking up the wrong tree Neal.

I agree your general point about the whole team needing to defend better, but this is because our back line and particularly our midfield drop far too deep and allow the opposing midfield a clear run between the half way line and the last third.

However your solution, to say sell Jordan Rhodes, and that he doesn't work hard enough is errant nonsense.

The evidence so far this season, Rudys goal against Cardiff ? JR got the tackle in just outside their box dispossessed a defender and Gestede scores. JRs opener against Bournemouth ? He chased down a defender inside their penalty area, dispossessed him and stuck it through the keepers legs.

We are basically far too defensive, selling a 25 goal a season striker doesn't seem like the right way to fix that to me.

[quote][p][bold]NealB[/bold] wrote:
Honest to god...
We concede because we don't defend as a team, our forwards and midfielders make it an almost impossible task to keep teams out because they don't make enough fouls in the other half... Look at how many free kicks we gave away on the edge of our own box and today and against Bournemouth from letting teams play far too easily out of their own half when we should be boxing them in. We're lacking a Dickov type player who will chase down defenders and force mistakes for 90 minutes... Rhodes doesn't work hard enough and it's a bad move not to sell for 12 million when we're lacking depth and quality at full back and centre midfield. His goals didn't get us in the playoffs last season and wont get us in the playoffs this season.
Bowyer somehow doesn't see these issues and I find it unbelievable to be honest. It's all well and good signing good defenders but even good defenders at the top level are protected and teams defend as a team.
Rivalry aside, Burnley presented this method absolutely textbook today and how other managers (not just Bowyer) don't take note of this style of play I find absolutely astounding. This isn't just something Dyche has introduced, Pearson, Mackay and many other managers understand attacking and defending AS A TEAM will get you out of this league.
Bottom line, these teams who get promoted don't have more ability than us, they work harder as a team than us and personally I find that the hardest thing to stomach.[/p][/quote]You really are barking up the wrong tree Neal.
I agree your general point about the whole team needing to defend better, but this is because our back line and particularly our midfield drop far too deep and allow the opposing midfield a clear run between the half way line and the last third.
However your solution, to say sell Jordan Rhodes, and that he doesn't work hard enough is errant nonsense.
The evidence so far this season, Rudys goal against Cardiff ? JR got the tackle in just outside their box dispossessed a defender and Gestede scores. JRs opener against Bournemouth ? He chased down a defender inside their penalty area, dispossessed him and stuck it through the keepers legs.
We are basically far too defensive, selling a 25 goal a season striker doesn't seem like the right way to fix that to me.greenscreener

NealB wrote…

Honest to god...

We concede because we don't defend as a team, our forwards and midfielders make it an almost impossible task to keep teams out because they don't make enough fouls in the other half... Look at how many free kicks we gave away on the edge of our own box and today and against Bournemouth from letting teams play far too easily out of their own half when we should be boxing them in. We're lacking a Dickov type player who will chase down defenders and force mistakes for 90 minutes... Rhodes doesn't work hard enough and it's a bad move not to sell for 12 million when we're lacking depth and quality at full back and centre midfield. His goals didn't get us in the playoffs last season and wont get us in the playoffs this season.

Bowyer somehow doesn't see these issues and I find it unbelievable to be honest. It's all well and good signing good defenders but even good defenders at the top level are protected and teams defend as a team.

Rivalry aside, Burnley presented this method absolutely textbook today and how other managers (not just Bowyer) don't take note of this style of play I find absolutely astounding. This isn't just something Dyche has introduced, Pearson, Mackay and many other managers understand attacking and defending AS A TEAM will get you out of this league.

Bottom line, these teams who get promoted don't have more ability than us, they work harder as a team than us and personally I find that the hardest thing to stomach.

You really are barking up the wrong tree Neal.

I agree your general point about the whole team needing to defend better, but this is because our back line and particularly our midfield drop far too deep and allow the opposing midfield a clear run between the half way line and the last third.

However your solution, to say sell Jordan Rhodes, and that he doesn't work hard enough is errant nonsense.

The evidence so far this season, Rudys goal against Cardiff ? JR got the tackle in just outside their box dispossessed a defender and Gestede scores. JRs opener against Bournemouth ? He chased down a defender inside their penalty area, dispossessed him and stuck it through the keepers legs.

We are basically far too defensive, selling a 25 goal a season striker doesn't seem like the right way to fix that to me.

Score: 10

accylongside
8:19am Sun 31 Aug 14

Garylla wrote…

I go back to California later today. Having seen Rovers concede 5 goals in 2 games but keep JR I go back being thankful we have the Venkys but wondering about GB's ability to get us promotion. We have the players but we don't have the tactics. Please sort it out before my next visit in November Gaz. COYB

Rhodes will be gone before you get to California. A rat deserting a sinking ship

[quote][p][bold]Garylla[/bold] wrote:
I go back to California later today. Having seen Rovers concede 5 goals in 2 games but keep JR I go back being thankful we have the Venkys but wondering about GB's ability to get us promotion. We have the players but we don't have the tactics. Please sort it out before my next visit in November Gaz. COYB[/p][/quote]Rhodes will be gone before you get to California. A rat deserting a sinking shipaccylongside

Garylla wrote…

I go back to California later today. Having seen Rovers concede 5 goals in 2 games but keep JR I go back being thankful we have the Venkys but wondering about GB's ability to get us promotion. We have the players but we don't have the tactics. Please sort it out before my next visit in November Gaz. COYB

Rhodes will be gone before you get to California. A rat deserting a sinking ship

Score: -9

Harwoodstblue
8:26am Sun 31 Aug 14

NealB wrote…

Honest to god...

We concede because we don't defend as a team, our forwards and midfielders make it an almost impossible task to keep teams out because they don't make enough fouls in the other half... Look at how many free kicks we gave away on the edge of our own box and today and against Bournemouth from letting teams play far too easily out of their own half when we should be boxing them in. We're lacking a Dickov type player who will chase down defenders and force mistakes for 90 minutes... Rhodes doesn't work hard enough and it's a bad move not to sell for 12 million when we're lacking depth and quality at full back and centre midfield. His goals didn't get us in the playoffs last season and wont get us in the playoffs this season.

Bowyer somehow doesn't see these issues and I find it unbelievable to be honest. It's all well and good signing good defenders but even good defenders at the top level are protected and teams defend as a team.

Rivalry aside, Burnley presented this method absolutely textbook today and how other managers (not just Bowyer) don't take note of this style of play I find absolutely astounding. This isn't just something Dyche has introduced, Pearson, Mackay and many other managers understand attacking and defending AS A TEAM will get you out of this league.

Bottom line, these teams who get promoted don't have more ability than us, they work harder as a team than us and personally I find that the hardest thing to stomach.

Excellent post and spot on. As you say, committing the fouls in the opponents half is far less dangerous than committing them on the edge of our own box. It also serves to break up attacks at an early stage and take the pressure off our easily panicked defence. Good comparison beteen Dickov and Rhodes work rate, how Dickov was prepared to give 100% to win the ball back higher up the pitch and to make a 'nuisance' of himself for 90 minutes. It isn't rocket science but the players need to show that desire all over the pitch.

[quote][p][bold]NealB[/bold] wrote:
Honest to god...
We concede because we don't defend as a team, our forwards and midfielders make it an almost impossible task to keep teams out because they don't make enough fouls in the other half... Look at how many free kicks we gave away on the edge of our own box and today and against Bournemouth from letting teams play far too easily out of their own half when we should be boxing them in. We're lacking a Dickov type player who will chase down defenders and force mistakes for 90 minutes... Rhodes doesn't work hard enough and it's a bad move not to sell for 12 million when we're lacking depth and quality at full back and centre midfield. His goals didn't get us in the playoffs last season and wont get us in the playoffs this season.
Bowyer somehow doesn't see these issues and I find it unbelievable to be honest. It's all well and good signing good defenders but even good defenders at the top level are protected and teams defend as a team.
Rivalry aside, Burnley presented this method absolutely textbook today and how other managers (not just Bowyer) don't take note of this style of play I find absolutely astounding. This isn't just something Dyche has introduced, Pearson, Mackay and many other managers understand attacking and defending AS A TEAM will get you out of this league.
Bottom line, these teams who get promoted don't have more ability than us, they work harder as a team than us and personally I find that the hardest thing to stomach.[/p][/quote]Excellent post and spot on. As you say, committing the fouls in the opponents half is far less dangerous than committing them on the edge of our own box. It also serves to break up attacks at an early stage and take the pressure off our easily panicked defence. Good comparison beteen Dickov and Rhodes work rate, how Dickov was prepared to give 100% to win the ball back higher up the pitch and to make a 'nuisance' of himself for 90 minutes. It isn't rocket science but the players need to show that desire all over the pitch.Harwoodstblue

NealB wrote…

Honest to god...

We concede because we don't defend as a team, our forwards and midfielders make it an almost impossible task to keep teams out because they don't make enough fouls in the other half... Look at how many free kicks we gave away on the edge of our own box and today and against Bournemouth from letting teams play far too easily out of their own half when we should be boxing them in. We're lacking a Dickov type player who will chase down defenders and force mistakes for 90 minutes... Rhodes doesn't work hard enough and it's a bad move not to sell for 12 million when we're lacking depth and quality at full back and centre midfield. His goals didn't get us in the playoffs last season and wont get us in the playoffs this season.

Bowyer somehow doesn't see these issues and I find it unbelievable to be honest. It's all well and good signing good defenders but even good defenders at the top level are protected and teams defend as a team.

Rivalry aside, Burnley presented this method absolutely textbook today and how other managers (not just Bowyer) don't take note of this style of play I find absolutely astounding. This isn't just something Dyche has introduced, Pearson, Mackay and many other managers understand attacking and defending AS A TEAM will get you out of this league.

Bottom line, these teams who get promoted don't have more ability than us, they work harder as a team than us and personally I find that the hardest thing to stomach.

Excellent post and spot on. As you say, committing the fouls in the opponents half is far less dangerous than committing them on the edge of our own box. It also serves to break up attacks at an early stage and take the pressure off our easily panicked defence. Good comparison beteen Dickov and Rhodes work rate, how Dickov was prepared to give 100% to win the ball back higher up the pitch and to make a 'nuisance' of himself for 90 minutes. It isn't rocket science but the players need to show that desire all over the pitch.

Score: 1

Harwoodstblue
8:29am Sun 31 Aug 14

NealB wrote…

Honest to god...

We concede because we don't defend as a team, our forwards and midfielders make it an almost impossible task to keep teams out because they don't make enough fouls in the other half... Look at how many free kicks we gave away on the edge of our own box and today and against Bournemouth from letting teams play far too easily out of their own half when we should be boxing them in. We're lacking a Dickov type player who will chase down defenders and force mistakes for 90 minutes... Rhodes doesn't work hard enough and it's a bad move not to sell for 12 million when we're lacking depth and quality at full back and centre midfield. His goals didn't get us in the playoffs last season and wont get us in the playoffs this season.

Bowyer somehow doesn't see these issues and I find it unbelievable to be honest. It's all well and good signing good defenders but even good defenders at the top level are protected and teams defend as a team.

Rivalry aside, Burnley presented this method absolutely textbook today and how other managers (not just Bowyer) don't take note of this style of play I find absolutely astounding. This isn't just something Dyche has introduced, Pearson, Mackay and many other managers understand attacking and defending AS A TEAM will get you out of this league.

Bottom line, these teams who get promoted don't have more ability than us, they work harder as a team than us and personally I find that the hardest thing to stomach.

Excellent post and spot on. As you say, committing the fouls in the opponents half is far less dangerous than committing them on the edge of our own box. It also serves to break up attacks at an early stage and take the pressure off our easily panicked defence. Good comparison beteen Dickov and Rhodes work rate, how Dickov was prepared to give 100% to win the ball back higher up the pitch and to make a 'nuisance' of himself for 90 minutes. It isn't rocket science but the players need to show that desire all over the pitch.

[quote][p][bold]NealB[/bold] wrote:
Honest to god...
We concede because we don't defend as a team, our forwards and midfielders make it an almost impossible task to keep teams out because they don't make enough fouls in the other half... Look at how many free kicks we gave away on the edge of our own box and today and against Bournemouth from letting teams play far too easily out of their own half when we should be boxing them in. We're lacking a Dickov type player who will chase down defenders and force mistakes for 90 minutes... Rhodes doesn't work hard enough and it's a bad move not to sell for 12 million when we're lacking depth and quality at full back and centre midfield. His goals didn't get us in the playoffs last season and wont get us in the playoffs this season.
Bowyer somehow doesn't see these issues and I find it unbelievable to be honest. It's all well and good signing good defenders but even good defenders at the top level are protected and teams defend as a team.
Rivalry aside, Burnley presented this method absolutely textbook today and how other managers (not just Bowyer) don't take note of this style of play I find absolutely astounding. This isn't just something Dyche has introduced, Pearson, Mackay and many other managers understand attacking and defending AS A TEAM will get you out of this league.
Bottom line, these teams who get promoted don't have more ability than us, they work harder as a team than us and personally I find that the hardest thing to stomach.[/p][/quote]Excellent post and spot on. As you say, committing the fouls in the opponents half is far less dangerous than committing them on the edge of our own box. It also serves to break up attacks at an early stage and take the pressure off our easily panicked defence. Good comparison beteen Dickov and Rhodes work rate, how Dickov was prepared to give 100% to win the ball back higher up the pitch and to make a 'nuisance' of himself for 90 minutes. It isn't rocket science but the players need to show that desire all over the pitch.Harwoodstblue

NealB wrote…

Honest to god...

We concede because we don't defend as a team, our forwards and midfielders make it an almost impossible task to keep teams out because they don't make enough fouls in the other half... Look at how many free kicks we gave away on the edge of our own box and today and against Bournemouth from letting teams play far too easily out of their own half when we should be boxing them in. We're lacking a Dickov type player who will chase down defenders and force mistakes for 90 minutes... Rhodes doesn't work hard enough and it's a bad move not to sell for 12 million when we're lacking depth and quality at full back and centre midfield. His goals didn't get us in the playoffs last season and wont get us in the playoffs this season.

Bowyer somehow doesn't see these issues and I find it unbelievable to be honest. It's all well and good signing good defenders but even good defenders at the top level are protected and teams defend as a team.

Rivalry aside, Burnley presented this method absolutely textbook today and how other managers (not just Bowyer) don't take note of this style of play I find absolutely astounding. This isn't just something Dyche has introduced, Pearson, Mackay and many other managers understand attacking and defending AS A TEAM will get you out of this league.

Bottom line, these teams who get promoted don't have more ability than us, they work harder as a team than us and personally I find that the hardest thing to stomach.

Excellent post and spot on. As you say, committing the fouls in the opponents half is far less dangerous than committing them on the edge of our own box. It also serves to break up attacks at an early stage and take the pressure off our easily panicked defence. Good comparison beteen Dickov and Rhodes work rate, how Dickov was prepared to give 100% to win the ball back higher up the pitch and to make a 'nuisance' of himself for 90 minutes. It isn't rocket science but the players need to show that desire all over the pitch.

Score: 0

Harwoodstblue
8:52am Sun 31 Aug 14

greenscreener wrote…

NealB wrote…

Honest to god...

We concede because we don't defend as a team, our forwards and midfielders make it an almost impossible task to keep teams out because they don't make enough fouls in the other half... Look at how many free kicks we gave away on the edge of our own box and today and against Bournemouth from letting teams play far too easily out of their own half when we should be boxing them in. We're lacking a Dickov type player who will chase down defenders and force mistakes for 90 minutes... Rhodes doesn't work hard enough and it's a bad move not to sell for 12 million when we're lacking depth and quality at full back and centre midfield. His goals didn't get us in the playoffs last season and wont get us in the playoffs this season.

Bowyer somehow doesn't see these issues and I find it unbelievable to be honest. It's all well and good signing good defenders but even good defenders at the top level are protected and teams defend as a team.

Rivalry aside, Burnley presented this method absolutely textbook today and how other managers (not just Bowyer) don't take note of this style of play I find absolutely astounding. This isn't just something Dyche has introduced, Pearson, Mackay and many other managers understand attacking and defending AS A TEAM will get you out of this league.

Bottom line, these teams who get promoted don't have more ability than us, they work harder as a team than us and personally I find that the hardest thing to stomach.

You really are barking up the wrong tree Neal.

I agree your general point about the whole team needing to defend better, but this is because our back line and particularly our midfield drop far too deep and allow the opposing midfield a clear run between the half way line and the last third.

However your solution, to say sell Jordan Rhodes, and that he doesn't work hard enough is errant nonsense.

The evidence so far this season, Rudys goal against Cardiff ? JR got the tackle in just outside their box dispossessed a defender and Gestede scores. JRs opener against Bournemouth ? He chased down a defender inside their penalty area, dispossessed him and stuck it through the keepers legs.

We are basically far too defensive, selling a 25 goal a season striker doesn't seem like the right way to fix that to me.

Agree with most of that GS but why does GB not see it ? Hate to say it but Burnley, as said above, attack and defend 'as a team , 100%'. They also have the guts to have a real go at teams, as they did in the first half yesterday. Bowyer on the other hand seems much more timid and cautious and should be getting much more out of this squad. I wasn't having a dig at Rhodes in particular in my previous post but if the whole front line put in some 'Dickov' type effort the defence wouldn't be under half as much pressure.

[quote][p][bold]greenscreener[/bold] wrote:
[quote][p][bold]NealB[/bold] wrote:
Honest to god...
We concede because we don't defend as a team, our forwards and midfielders make it an almost impossible task to keep teams out because they don't make enough fouls in the other half... Look at how many free kicks we gave away on the edge of our own box and today and against Bournemouth from letting teams play far too easily out of their own half when we should be boxing them in. We're lacking a Dickov type player who will chase down defenders and force mistakes for 90 minutes... Rhodes doesn't work hard enough and it's a bad move not to sell for 12 million when we're lacking depth and quality at full back and centre midfield. His goals didn't get us in the playoffs last season and wont get us in the playoffs this season.
Bowyer somehow doesn't see these issues and I find it unbelievable to be honest. It's all well and good signing good defenders but even good defenders at the top level are protected and teams defend as a team.
Rivalry aside, Burnley presented this method absolutely textbook today and how other managers (not just Bowyer) don't take note of this style of play I find absolutely astounding. This isn't just something Dyche has introduced, Pearson, Mackay and many other managers understand attacking and defending AS A TEAM will get you out of this league.
Bottom line, these teams who get promoted don't have more ability than us, they work harder as a team than us and personally I find that the hardest thing to stomach.[/p][/quote]You really are barking up the wrong tree Neal.
I agree your general point about the whole team needing to defend better, but this is because our back line and particularly our midfield drop far too deep and allow the opposing midfield a clear run between the half way line and the last third.
However your solution, to say sell Jordan Rhodes, and that he doesn't work hard enough is errant nonsense.
The evidence so far this season, Rudys goal against Cardiff ? JR got the tackle in just outside their box dispossessed a defender and Gestede scores. JRs opener against Bournemouth ? He chased down a defender inside their penalty area, dispossessed him and stuck it through the keepers legs.
We are basically far too defensive, selling a 25 goal a season striker doesn't seem like the right way to fix that to me.[/p][/quote]Agree with most of that GS but why does GB not see it ? Hate to say it but Burnley, as said above, attack and defend 'as a team , 100%'. They also have the guts to have a real go at teams, as they did in the first half yesterday. Bowyer on the other hand seems much more timid and cautious and should be getting much more out of this squad. I wasn't having a dig at Rhodes in particular in my previous post but if the whole front line put in some 'Dickov' type effort the defence wouldn't be under half as much pressure.Harwoodstblue

greenscreener wrote…

NealB wrote…

Honest to god...

We concede because we don't defend as a team, our forwards and midfielders make it an almost impossible task to keep teams out because they don't make enough fouls in the other half... Look at how many free kicks we gave away on the edge of our own box and today and against Bournemouth from letting teams play far too easily out of their own half when we should be boxing them in. We're lacking a Dickov type player who will chase down defenders and force mistakes for 90 minutes... Rhodes doesn't work hard enough and it's a bad move not to sell for 12 million when we're lacking depth and quality at full back and centre midfield. His goals didn't get us in the playoffs last season and wont get us in the playoffs this season.

Bowyer somehow doesn't see these issues and I find it unbelievable to be honest. It's all well and good signing good defenders but even good defenders at the top level are protected and teams defend as a team.

Rivalry aside, Burnley presented this method absolutely textbook today and how other managers (not just Bowyer) don't take note of this style of play I find absolutely astounding. This isn't just something Dyche has introduced, Pearson, Mackay and many other managers understand attacking and defending AS A TEAM will get you out of this league.

Bottom line, these teams who get promoted don't have more ability than us, they work harder as a team than us and personally I find that the hardest thing to stomach.

You really are barking up the wrong tree Neal.

I agree your general point about the whole team needing to defend better, but this is because our back line and particularly our midfield drop far too deep and allow the opposing midfield a clear run between the half way line and the last third.

However your solution, to say sell Jordan Rhodes, and that he doesn't work hard enough is errant nonsense.

The evidence so far this season, Rudys goal against Cardiff ? JR got the tackle in just outside their box dispossessed a defender and Gestede scores. JRs opener against Bournemouth ? He chased down a defender inside their penalty area, dispossessed him and stuck it through the keepers legs.

We are basically far too defensive, selling a 25 goal a season striker doesn't seem like the right way to fix that to me.

Agree with most of that GS but why does GB not see it ? Hate to say it but Burnley, as said above, attack and defend 'as a team , 100%'. They also have the guts to have a real go at teams, as they did in the first half yesterday. Bowyer on the other hand seems much more timid and cautious and should be getting much more out of this squad. I wasn't having a dig at Rhodes in particular in my previous post but if the whole front line put in some 'Dickov' type effort the defence wouldn't be under half as much pressure.

Score: 6

greenscreener
9:10am Sun 31 Aug 14

Harwoodstblue wrote…

greenscreener wrote…

NealB wrote…

Honest to god...

We concede because we don't defend as a team, our forwards and midfielders make it an almost impossible task to keep teams out because they don't make enough fouls in the other half... Look at how many free kicks we gave away on the edge of our own box and today and against Bournemouth from letting teams play far too easily out of their own half when we should be boxing them in. We're lacking a Dickov type player who will chase down defenders and force mistakes for 90 minutes... Rhodes doesn't work hard enough and it's a bad move not to sell for 12 million when we're lacking depth and quality at full back and centre midfield. His goals didn't get us in the playoffs last season and wont get us in the playoffs this season.

Bowyer somehow doesn't see these issues and I find it unbelievable to be honest. It's all well and good signing good defenders but even good defenders at the top level are protected and teams defend as a team.

Rivalry aside, Burnley presented this method absolutely textbook today and how other managers (not just Bowyer) don't take note of this style of play I find absolutely astounding. This isn't just something Dyche has introduced, Pearson, Mackay and many other managers understand attacking and defending AS A TEAM will get you out of this league.

Bottom line, these teams who get promoted don't have more ability than us, they work harder as a team than us and personally I find that the hardest thing to stomach.

You really are barking up the wrong tree Neal.

I agree your general point about the whole team needing to defend better, but this is because our back line and particularly our midfield drop far too deep and allow the opposing midfield a clear run between the half way line and the last third.

However your solution, to say sell Jordan Rhodes, and that he doesn't work hard enough is errant nonsense.

The evidence so far this season, Rudys goal against Cardiff ? JR got the tackle in just outside their box dispossessed a defender and Gestede scores. JRs opener against Bournemouth ? He chased down a defender inside their penalty area, dispossessed him and stuck it through the keepers legs.

We are basically far too defensive, selling a 25 goal a season striker doesn't seem like the right way to fix that to me.

Agree with most of that GS but why does GB not see it ? Hate to say it but Burnley, as said above, attack and defend 'as a team , 100%'. They also have the guts to have a real go at teams, as they did in the first half yesterday. Bowyer on the other hand seems much more timid and cautious and should be getting much more out of this squad. I wasn't having a dig at Rhodes in particular in my previous post but if the whole front line put in some 'Dickov' type effort the defence wouldn't be under half as much pressure.

I think we agree on the problem, and why GB works this way is just disappointing, trying to avoid losing rather than going out to win seems like the actions of a guy under a lot of pressure.

My issue with Neals post was only his solution.

Much as I loved watching Dickov, or Speedie, play with that passion and commitment neither of them could come close to Jordan Rhodes for goals.

Defending from the front is great, and Ian Rush was the master (who also got a few goals) but it's wasted if the rest of the team are 40 yds further back.

[quote][p][bold]Harwoodstblue[/bold] wrote:
[quote][p][bold]greenscreener[/bold] wrote:
[quote][p][bold]NealB[/bold] wrote:
Honest to god...
We concede because we don't defend as a team, our forwards and midfielders make it an almost impossible task to keep teams out because they don't make enough fouls in the other half... Look at how many free kicks we gave away on the edge of our own box and today and against Bournemouth from letting teams play far too easily out of their own half when we should be boxing them in. We're lacking a Dickov type player who will chase down defenders and force mistakes for 90 minutes... Rhodes doesn't work hard enough and it's a bad move not to sell for 12 million when we're lacking depth and quality at full back and centre midfield. His goals didn't get us in the playoffs last season and wont get us in the playoffs this season.
Bowyer somehow doesn't see these issues and I find it unbelievable to be honest. It's all well and good signing good defenders but even good defenders at the top level are protected and teams defend as a team.
Rivalry aside, Burnley presented this method absolutely textbook today and how other managers (not just Bowyer) don't take note of this style of play I find absolutely astounding. This isn't just something Dyche has introduced, Pearson, Mackay and many other managers understand attacking and defending AS A TEAM will get you out of this league.
Bottom line, these teams who get promoted don't have more ability than us, they work harder as a team than us and personally I find that the hardest thing to stomach.[/p][/quote]You really are barking up the wrong tree Neal.
I agree your general point about the whole team needing to defend better, but this is because our back line and particularly our midfield drop far too deep and allow the opposing midfield a clear run between the half way line and the last third.
However your solution, to say sell Jordan Rhodes, and that he doesn't work hard enough is errant nonsense.
The evidence so far this season, Rudys goal against Cardiff ? JR got the tackle in just outside their box dispossessed a defender and Gestede scores. JRs opener against Bournemouth ? He chased down a defender inside their penalty area, dispossessed him and stuck it through the keepers legs.
We are basically far too defensive, selling a 25 goal a season striker doesn't seem like the right way to fix that to me.[/p][/quote]Agree with most of that GS but why does GB not see it ? Hate to say it but Burnley, as said above, attack and defend 'as a team , 100%'. They also have the guts to have a real go at teams, as they did in the first half yesterday. Bowyer on the other hand seems much more timid and cautious and should be getting much more out of this squad. I wasn't having a dig at Rhodes in particular in my previous post but if the whole front line put in some 'Dickov' type effort the defence wouldn't be under half as much pressure.[/p][/quote]I think we agree on the problem, and why GB works this way is just disappointing, trying to avoid losing rather than going out to win seems like the actions of a guy under a lot of pressure.
My issue with Neals post was only his solution.
Much as I loved watching Dickov, or Speedie, play with that passion and commitment neither of them could come close to Jordan Rhodes for goals.
Defending from the front is great, and Ian Rush was the master (who also got a few goals) but it's wasted if the rest of the team are 40 yds further back.greenscreener

Harwoodstblue wrote…

greenscreener wrote…

NealB wrote…

Honest to god...

We concede because we don't defend as a team, our forwards and midfielders make it an almost impossible task to keep teams out because they don't make enough fouls in the other half... Look at how many free kicks we gave away on the edge of our own box and today and against Bournemouth from letting teams play far too easily out of their own half when we should be boxing them in. We're lacking a Dickov type player who will chase down defenders and force mistakes for 90 minutes... Rhodes doesn't work hard enough and it's a bad move not to sell for 12 million when we're lacking depth and quality at full back and centre midfield. His goals didn't get us in the playoffs last season and wont get us in the playoffs this season.

Bowyer somehow doesn't see these issues and I find it unbelievable to be honest. It's all well and good signing good defenders but even good defenders at the top level are protected and teams defend as a team.

Rivalry aside, Burnley presented this method absolutely textbook today and how other managers (not just Bowyer) don't take note of this style of play I find absolutely astounding. This isn't just something Dyche has introduced, Pearson, Mackay and many other managers understand attacking and defending AS A TEAM will get you out of this league.

Bottom line, these teams who get promoted don't have more ability than us, they work harder as a team than us and personally I find that the hardest thing to stomach.

You really are barking up the wrong tree Neal.

I agree your general point about the whole team needing to defend better, but this is because our back line and particularly our midfield drop far too deep and allow the opposing midfield a clear run between the half way line and the last third.

However your solution, to say sell Jordan Rhodes, and that he doesn't work hard enough is errant nonsense.

The evidence so far this season, Rudys goal against Cardiff ? JR got the tackle in just outside their box dispossessed a defender and Gestede scores. JRs opener against Bournemouth ? He chased down a defender inside their penalty area, dispossessed him and stuck it through the keepers legs.

We are basically far too defensive, selling a 25 goal a season striker doesn't seem like the right way to fix that to me.

Agree with most of that GS but why does GB not see it ? Hate to say it but Burnley, as said above, attack and defend 'as a team , 100%'. They also have the guts to have a real go at teams, as they did in the first half yesterday. Bowyer on the other hand seems much more timid and cautious and should be getting much more out of this squad. I wasn't having a dig at Rhodes in particular in my previous post but if the whole front line put in some 'Dickov' type effort the defence wouldn't be under half as much pressure.

I think we agree on the problem, and why GB works this way is just disappointing, trying to avoid losing rather than going out to win seems like the actions of a guy under a lot of pressure.

My issue with Neals post was only his solution.

Much as I loved watching Dickov, or Speedie, play with that passion and commitment neither of them could come close to Jordan Rhodes for goals.

Defending from the front is great, and Ian Rush was the master (who also got a few goals) but it's wasted if the rest of the team are 40 yds further back.

Score: 3

A Darener
9:18am Sun 31 Aug 14

Don't know how much he learnt whilst at Everton but after yesterday's performance against Chelsea, Everton's defence have a lot to learn.

Don't know how much he learnt whilst at Everton but after yesterday's performance against Chelsea, Everton's defence have a lot to learn.A Darener

Don't know how much he learnt whilst at Everton but after yesterday's performance against Chelsea, Everton's defence have a lot to learn.

Score: 1

guiderover
9:20am Sun 31 Aug 14

It maybe still early in the season,but we're already playing catchup.We're leaking goals for fun with comical defending.If The Venkys are serious about Rovers gaining promotion then GB has to step down and go back to his old job.I know its a long shot,but Tony Pulis could save our skins,if not Steve Clarke.

It maybe still early in the season,but we're already playing catchup.We're leaking goals for fun with comical defending.If The Venkys are serious about Rovers gaining promotion then GB has to step down and go back to his old job.I know its a long shot,but Tony Pulis could save our skins,if not Steve Clarke.guiderover

It maybe still early in the season,but we're already playing catchup.We're leaking goals for fun with comical defending.If The Venkys are serious about Rovers gaining promotion then GB has to step down and go back to his old job.I know its a long shot,but Tony Pulis could save our skins,if not Steve Clarke.

Score: 3

Bazzer
9:36am Sun 31 Aug 14

greenscreener wrote…

Harwoodstblue wrote…

greenscreener wrote…

NealB wrote…

Honest to god...

We concede because we don't defend as a team, our forwards and midfielders make it an almost impossible task to keep teams out because they don't make enough fouls in the other half... Look at how many free kicks we gave away on the edge of our own box and today and against Bournemouth from letting teams play far too easily out of their own half when we should be boxing them in. We're lacking a Dickov type player who will chase down defenders and force mistakes for 90 minutes... Rhodes doesn't work hard enough and it's a bad move not to sell for 12 million when we're lacking depth and quality at full back and centre midfield. His goals didn't get us in the playoffs last season and wont get us in the playoffs this season.

Bowyer somehow doesn't see these issues and I find it unbelievable to be honest. It's all well and good signing good defenders but even good defenders at the top level are protected and teams defend as a team.

Rivalry aside, Burnley presented this method absolutely textbook today and how other managers (not just Bowyer) don't take note of this style of play I find absolutely astounding. This isn't just something Dyche has introduced, Pearson, Mackay and many other managers understand attacking and defending AS A TEAM will get you out of this league.

Bottom line, these teams who get promoted don't have more ability than us, they work harder as a team than us and personally I find that the hardest thing to stomach.

You really are barking up the wrong tree Neal.

I agree your general point about the whole team needing to defend better, but this is because our back line and particularly our midfield drop far too deep and allow the opposing midfield a clear run between the half way line and the last third.

However your solution, to say sell Jordan Rhodes, and that he doesn't work hard enough is errant nonsense.

The evidence so far this season, Rudys goal against Cardiff ? JR got the tackle in just outside their box dispossessed a defender and Gestede scores. JRs opener against Bournemouth ? He chased down a defender inside their penalty area, dispossessed him and stuck it through the keepers legs.

We are basically far too defensive, selling a 25 goal a season striker doesn't seem like the right way to fix that to me.

Agree with most of that GS but why does GB not see it ? Hate to say it but Burnley, as said above, attack and defend 'as a team , 100%'. They also have the guts to have a real go at teams, as they did in the first half yesterday. Bowyer on the other hand seems much more timid and cautious and should be getting much more out of this squad. I wasn't having a dig at Rhodes in particular in my previous post but if the whole front line put in some 'Dickov' type effort the defence wouldn't be under half as much pressure.

I think we agree on the problem, and why GB works this way is just disappointing, trying to avoid losing rather than going out to win seems like the actions of a guy under a lot of pressure.

My issue with Neals post was only his solution.

Much as I loved watching Dickov, or Speedie, play with that passion and commitment neither of them could come close to Jordan Rhodes for goals.

Defending from the front is great, and Ian Rush was the master (who also got a few goals) but it's wasted if the rest of the team are 40 yds further back.

The value of NealB's comments is that on the current results being returned by this team, Jordan Rhodes is a luxury we cannot afford.

[quote][p][bold]greenscreener[/bold] wrote:
[quote][p][bold]Harwoodstblue[/bold] wrote:
[quote][p][bold]greenscreener[/bold] wrote:
[quote][p][bold]NealB[/bold] wrote:
Honest to god...
We concede because we don't defend as a team, our forwards and midfielders make it an almost impossible task to keep teams out because they don't make enough fouls in the other half... Look at how many free kicks we gave away on the edge of our own box and today and against Bournemouth from letting teams play far too easily out of their own half when we should be boxing them in. We're lacking a Dickov type player who will chase down defenders and force mistakes for 90 minutes... Rhodes doesn't work hard enough and it's a bad move not to sell for 12 million when we're lacking depth and quality at full back and centre midfield. His goals didn't get us in the playoffs last season and wont get us in the playoffs this season.
Bowyer somehow doesn't see these issues and I find it unbelievable to be honest. It's all well and good signing good defenders but even good defenders at the top level are protected and teams defend as a team.
Rivalry aside, Burnley presented this method absolutely textbook today and how other managers (not just Bowyer) don't take note of this style of play I find absolutely astounding. This isn't just something Dyche has introduced, Pearson, Mackay and many other managers understand attacking and defending AS A TEAM will get you out of this league.
Bottom line, these teams who get promoted don't have more ability than us, they work harder as a team than us and personally I find that the hardest thing to stomach.[/p][/quote]You really are barking up the wrong tree Neal.
I agree your general point about the whole team needing to defend better, but this is because our back line and particularly our midfield drop far too deep and allow the opposing midfield a clear run between the half way line and the last third.
However your solution, to say sell Jordan Rhodes, and that he doesn't work hard enough is errant nonsense.
The evidence so far this season, Rudys goal against Cardiff ? JR got the tackle in just outside their box dispossessed a defender and Gestede scores. JRs opener against Bournemouth ? He chased down a defender inside their penalty area, dispossessed him and stuck it through the keepers legs.
We are basically far too defensive, selling a 25 goal a season striker doesn't seem like the right way to fix that to me.[/p][/quote]Agree with most of that GS but why does GB not see it ? Hate to say it but Burnley, as said above, attack and defend 'as a team , 100%'. They also have the guts to have a real go at teams, as they did in the first half yesterday. Bowyer on the other hand seems much more timid and cautious and should be getting much more out of this squad. I wasn't having a dig at Rhodes in particular in my previous post but if the whole front line put in some 'Dickov' type effort the defence wouldn't be under half as much pressure.[/p][/quote]I think we agree on the problem, and why GB works this way is just disappointing, trying to avoid losing rather than going out to win seems like the actions of a guy under a lot of pressure.
My issue with Neals post was only his solution.
Much as I loved watching Dickov, or Speedie, play with that passion and commitment neither of them could come close to Jordan Rhodes for goals.
Defending from the front is great, and Ian Rush was the master (who also got a few goals) but it's wasted if the rest of the team are 40 yds further back.[/p][/quote]The value of NealB's comments is that on the current results being returned by this team, Jordan Rhodes is a luxury we cannot afford.Bazzer

greenscreener wrote…

Harwoodstblue wrote…

greenscreener wrote…

NealB wrote…

Honest to god...

We concede because we don't defend as a team, our forwards and midfielders make it an almost impossible task to keep teams out because they don't make enough fouls in the other half... Look at how many free kicks we gave away on the edge of our own box and today and against Bournemouth from letting teams play far too easily out of their own half when we should be boxing them in. We're lacking a Dickov type player who will chase down defenders and force mistakes for 90 minutes... Rhodes doesn't work hard enough and it's a bad move not to sell for 12 million when we're lacking depth and quality at full back and centre midfield. His goals didn't get us in the playoffs last season and wont get us in the playoffs this season.

Bowyer somehow doesn't see these issues and I find it unbelievable to be honest. It's all well and good signing good defenders but even good defenders at the top level are protected and teams defend as a team.

Rivalry aside, Burnley presented this method absolutely textbook today and how other managers (not just Bowyer) don't take note of this style of play I find absolutely astounding. This isn't just something Dyche has introduced, Pearson, Mackay and many other managers understand attacking and defending AS A TEAM will get you out of this league.

Bottom line, these teams who get promoted don't have more ability than us, they work harder as a team than us and personally I find that the hardest thing to stomach.

You really are barking up the wrong tree Neal.

I agree your general point about the whole team needing to defend better, but this is because our back line and particularly our midfield drop far too deep and allow the opposing midfield a clear run between the half way line and the last third.

However your solution, to say sell Jordan Rhodes, and that he doesn't work hard enough is errant nonsense.

The evidence so far this season, Rudys goal against Cardiff ? JR got the tackle in just outside their box dispossessed a defender and Gestede scores. JRs opener against Bournemouth ? He chased down a defender inside their penalty area, dispossessed him and stuck it through the keepers legs.

We are basically far too defensive, selling a 25 goal a season striker doesn't seem like the right way to fix that to me.

Agree with most of that GS but why does GB not see it ? Hate to say it but Burnley, as said above, attack and defend 'as a team , 100%'. They also have the guts to have a real go at teams, as they did in the first half yesterday. Bowyer on the other hand seems much more timid and cautious and should be getting much more out of this squad. I wasn't having a dig at Rhodes in particular in my previous post but if the whole front line put in some 'Dickov' type effort the defence wouldn't be under half as much pressure.

I think we agree on the problem, and why GB works this way is just disappointing, trying to avoid losing rather than going out to win seems like the actions of a guy under a lot of pressure.

My issue with Neals post was only his solution.

Much as I loved watching Dickov, or Speedie, play with that passion and commitment neither of them could come close to Jordan Rhodes for goals.

Defending from the front is great, and Ian Rush was the master (who also got a few goals) but it's wasted if the rest of the team are 40 yds further back.

The value of NealB's comments is that on the current results being returned by this team, Jordan Rhodes is a luxury we cannot afford.

Score: 1

Harwoodstblue
9:48am Sun 31 Aug 14

greenscreener wrote…

Harwoodstblue wrote…

greenscreener wrote…

NealB wrote…

Honest to god...

We concede because we don't defend as a team, our forwards and midfielders make it an almost impossible task to keep teams out because they don't make enough fouls in the other half... Look at how many free kicks we gave away on the edge of our own box and today and against Bournemouth from letting teams play far too easily out of their own half when we should be boxing them in. We're lacking a Dickov type player who will chase down defenders and force mistakes for 90 minutes... Rhodes doesn't work hard enough and it's a bad move not to sell for 12 million when we're lacking depth and quality at full back and centre midfield. His goals didn't get us in the playoffs last season and wont get us in the playoffs this season.

Bowyer somehow doesn't see these issues and I find it unbelievable to be honest. It's all well and good signing good defenders but even good defenders at the top level are protected and teams defend as a team.

Rivalry aside, Burnley presented this method absolutely textbook today and how other managers (not just Bowyer) don't take note of this style of play I find absolutely astounding. This isn't just something Dyche has introduced, Pearson, Mackay and many other managers understand attacking and defending AS A TEAM will get you out of this league.

Bottom line, these teams who get promoted don't have more ability than us, they work harder as a team than us and personally I find that the hardest thing to stomach.

You really are barking up the wrong tree Neal.

I agree your general point about the whole team needing to defend better, but this is because our back line and particularly our midfield drop far too deep and allow the opposing midfield a clear run between the half way line and the last third.

However your solution, to say sell Jordan Rhodes, and that he doesn't work hard enough is errant nonsense.

The evidence so far this season, Rudys goal against Cardiff ? JR got the tackle in just outside their box dispossessed a defender and Gestede scores. JRs opener against Bournemouth ? He chased down a defender inside their penalty area, dispossessed him and stuck it through the keepers legs.

We are basically far too defensive, selling a 25 goal a season striker doesn't seem like the right way to fix that to me.

Agree with most of that GS but why does GB not see it ? Hate to say it but Burnley, as said above, attack and defend 'as a team , 100%'. They also have the guts to have a real go at teams, as they did in the first half yesterday. Bowyer on the other hand seems much more timid and cautious and should be getting much more out of this squad. I wasn't having a dig at Rhodes in particular in my previous post but if the whole front line put in some 'Dickov' type effort the defence wouldn't be under half as much pressure.

I think we agree on the problem, and why GB works this way is just disappointing, trying to avoid losing rather than going out to win seems like the actions of a guy under a lot of pressure.

My issue with Neals post was only his solution.

Much as I loved watching Dickov, or Speedie, play with that passion and commitment neither of them could come close to Jordan Rhodes for goals.

Defending from the front is great, and Ian Rush was the master (who also got a few goals) but it's wasted if the rest of the team are 40 yds further back.

Yes I agree we need to push up more. Once we were 'safe' last season Bowyer seemed to relax and play with much more freedom andd confidence with the results that we all saw. I can't understand why he seems to have retreated back into his shell again in the early part of the season. Apart from the first half against Bournemouth it's been pretty much the same as the early part of last season. On the other hand it's early days and we have to take the injuries into account.
Umnlike some others I'm not calling for his head, but wish he would be a little more offensive and give the opposition something to think about.

[quote][p][bold]greenscreener[/bold] wrote:
[quote][p][bold]Harwoodstblue[/bold] wrote:
[quote][p][bold]greenscreener[/bold] wrote:
[quote][p][bold]NealB[/bold] wrote:
Honest to god...
We concede because we don't defend as a team, our forwards and midfielders make it an almost impossible task to keep teams out because they don't make enough fouls in the other half... Look at how many free kicks we gave away on the edge of our own box and today and against Bournemouth from letting teams play far too easily out of their own half when we should be boxing them in. We're lacking a Dickov type player who will chase down defenders and force mistakes for 90 minutes... Rhodes doesn't work hard enough and it's a bad move not to sell for 12 million when we're lacking depth and quality at full back and centre midfield. His goals didn't get us in the playoffs last season and wont get us in the playoffs this season.
Bowyer somehow doesn't see these issues and I find it unbelievable to be honest. It's all well and good signing good defenders but even good defenders at the top level are protected and teams defend as a team.
Rivalry aside, Burnley presented this method absolutely textbook today and how other managers (not just Bowyer) don't take note of this style of play I find absolutely astounding. This isn't just something Dyche has introduced, Pearson, Mackay and many other managers understand attacking and defending AS A TEAM will get you out of this league.
Bottom line, these teams who get promoted don't have more ability than us, they work harder as a team than us and personally I find that the hardest thing to stomach.[/p][/quote]You really are barking up the wrong tree Neal.
I agree your general point about the whole team needing to defend better, but this is because our back line and particularly our midfield drop far too deep and allow the opposing midfield a clear run between the half way line and the last third.
However your solution, to say sell Jordan Rhodes, and that he doesn't work hard enough is errant nonsense.
The evidence so far this season, Rudys goal against Cardiff ? JR got the tackle in just outside their box dispossessed a defender and Gestede scores. JRs opener against Bournemouth ? He chased down a defender inside their penalty area, dispossessed him and stuck it through the keepers legs.
We are basically far too defensive, selling a 25 goal a season striker doesn't seem like the right way to fix that to me.[/p][/quote]Agree with most of that GS but why does GB not see it ? Hate to say it but Burnley, as said above, attack and defend 'as a team , 100%'. They also have the guts to have a real go at teams, as they did in the first half yesterday. Bowyer on the other hand seems much more timid and cautious and should be getting much more out of this squad. I wasn't having a dig at Rhodes in particular in my previous post but if the whole front line put in some 'Dickov' type effort the defence wouldn't be under half as much pressure.[/p][/quote]I think we agree on the problem, and why GB works this way is just disappointing, trying to avoid losing rather than going out to win seems like the actions of a guy under a lot of pressure.
My issue with Neals post was only his solution.
Much as I loved watching Dickov, or Speedie, play with that passion and commitment neither of them could come close to Jordan Rhodes for goals.
Defending from the front is great, and Ian Rush was the master (who also got a few goals) but it's wasted if the rest of the team are 40 yds further back.[/p][/quote]Yes I agree we need to push up more. Once we were 'safe' last season Bowyer seemed to relax and play with much more freedom andd confidence with the results that we all saw. I can't understand why he seems to have retreated back into his shell again in the early part of the season. Apart from the first half against Bournemouth it's been pretty much the same as the early part of last season. On the other hand it's early days and we have to take the injuries into account.
Umnlike some others I'm not calling for his head, but wish he would be a little more offensive and give the opposition something to think about.Harwoodstblue

greenscreener wrote…

Harwoodstblue wrote…

greenscreener wrote…

NealB wrote…

Honest to god...

We concede because we don't defend as a team, our forwards and midfielders make it an almost impossible task to keep teams out because they don't make enough fouls in the other half... Look at how many free kicks we gave away on the edge of our own box and today and against Bournemouth from letting teams play far too easily out of their own half when we should be boxing them in. We're lacking a Dickov type player who will chase down defenders and force mistakes for 90 minutes... Rhodes doesn't work hard enough and it's a bad move not to sell for 12 million when we're lacking depth and quality at full back and centre midfield. His goals didn't get us in the playoffs last season and wont get us in the playoffs this season.

Bowyer somehow doesn't see these issues and I find it unbelievable to be honest. It's all well and good signing good defenders but even good defenders at the top level are protected and teams defend as a team.

Rivalry aside, Burnley presented this method absolutely textbook today and how other managers (not just Bowyer) don't take note of this style of play I find absolutely astounding. This isn't just something Dyche has introduced, Pearson, Mackay and many other managers understand attacking and defending AS A TEAM will get you out of this league.

Bottom line, these teams who get promoted don't have more ability than us, they work harder as a team than us and personally I find that the hardest thing to stomach.

You really are barking up the wrong tree Neal.

I agree your general point about the whole team needing to defend better, but this is because our back line and particularly our midfield drop far too deep and allow the opposing midfield a clear run between the half way line and the last third.

However your solution, to say sell Jordan Rhodes, and that he doesn't work hard enough is errant nonsense.

The evidence so far this season, Rudys goal against Cardiff ? JR got the tackle in just outside their box dispossessed a defender and Gestede scores. JRs opener against Bournemouth ? He chased down a defender inside their penalty area, dispossessed him and stuck it through the keepers legs.

We are basically far too defensive, selling a 25 goal a season striker doesn't seem like the right way to fix that to me.

Agree with most of that GS but why does GB not see it ? Hate to say it but Burnley, as said above, attack and defend 'as a team , 100%'. They also have the guts to have a real go at teams, as they did in the first half yesterday. Bowyer on the other hand seems much more timid and cautious and should be getting much more out of this squad. I wasn't having a dig at Rhodes in particular in my previous post but if the whole front line put in some 'Dickov' type effort the defence wouldn't be under half as much pressure.

I think we agree on the problem, and why GB works this way is just disappointing, trying to avoid losing rather than going out to win seems like the actions of a guy under a lot of pressure.

My issue with Neals post was only his solution.

Much as I loved watching Dickov, or Speedie, play with that passion and commitment neither of them could come close to Jordan Rhodes for goals.

Defending from the front is great, and Ian Rush was the master (who also got a few goals) but it's wasted if the rest of the team are 40 yds further back.

Yes I agree we need to push up more. Once we were 'safe' last season Bowyer seemed to relax and play with much more freedom andd confidence with the results that we all saw. I can't understand why he seems to have retreated back into his shell again in the early part of the season. Apart from the first half against Bournemouth it's been pretty much the same as the early part of last season. On the other hand it's early days and we have to take the injuries into account.
Umnlike some others I'm not calling for his head, but wish he would be a little more offensive and give the opposition something to think about.

Score: 4

roverstid
5:13pm Sun 31 Aug 14

Rovers 1495 wrote…

Message for Mr Bowyer

Don't ever play Williamson again.

At least until next seasons derby if we need a *cough* professional foul *cough* again to stop a team who we never needed one to beat before.

[quote][p][bold]Rovers 1495[/bold] wrote:
Message for Mr Bowyer
Don't ever play Williamson again.[/p][/quote]At least until next seasons derby if we need a *cough* professional foul *cough* again to stop a team who we never needed one to beat before.roverstid

Rovers 1495 wrote…

Message for Mr Bowyer

Don't ever play Williamson again.

At least until next seasons derby if we need a *cough* professional foul *cough* again to stop a team who we never needed one to beat before.

Score: -2

adcr
11:01am Sun 31 Aug 14

I think the main problem is far too many mistakes, this effects confidence and curtails your attacking ambitions. I think that is why Bowyer likes to play a defensive formation. I agree though Bowyer is overly cautious and this invites even more pressure, but I don’t agree we are ever a team under siege either (so we can’t put all the blame on Bowyer’s tactics). Bottom line is defensively we are weak and we need more recruits bringing in before the transfer window shuts. Duffy is a start, but I think we need more recruits. Over the years I have witnessed many great defender partnerships at Rovers, what we have at the moment is one of the worst. Goals conceded we are joint second worst in this division atm says it all.

I think the main problem is far too many mistakes, this effects confidence and curtails your attacking ambitions. I think that is why Bowyer likes to play a defensive formation. I agree though Bowyer is overly cautious and this invites even more pressure, but I don’t agree we are ever a team under siege either (so we can’t put all the blame on Bowyer’s tactics). Bottom line is defensively we are weak and we need more recruits bringing in before the transfer window shuts. Duffy is a start, but I think we need more recruits. Over the years I have witnessed many great defender partnerships at Rovers, what we have at the moment is one of the worst. Goals conceded we are joint second worst in this division atm says it all.adcr

I think the main problem is far too many mistakes, this effects confidence and curtails your attacking ambitions. I think that is why Bowyer likes to play a defensive formation. I agree though Bowyer is overly cautious and this invites even more pressure, but I don’t agree we are ever a team under siege either (so we can’t put all the blame on Bowyer’s tactics). Bottom line is defensively we are weak and we need more recruits bringing in before the transfer window shuts. Duffy is a start, but I think we need more recruits. Over the years I have witnessed many great defender partnerships at Rovers, what we have at the moment is one of the worst. Goals conceded we are joint second worst in this division atm says it all.

Score: 5

NealB
11:50am Sun 31 Aug 14

greenscreener wrote…

NealB wrote…

Honest to god...

We concede because we don't defend as a team, our forwards and midfielders make it an almost impossible task to keep teams out because they don't make enough fouls in the other half... Look at how many free kicks we gave away on the edge of our own box and today and against Bournemouth from letting teams play far too easily out of their own half when we should be boxing them in. We're lacking a Dickov type player who will chase down defenders and force mistakes for 90 minutes... Rhodes doesn't work hard enough and it's a bad move not to sell for 12 million when we're lacking depth and quality at full back and centre midfield. His goals didn't get us in the playoffs last season and wont get us in the playoffs this season.

Bowyer somehow doesn't see these issues and I find it unbelievable to be honest. It's all well and good signing good defenders but even good defenders at the top level are protected and teams defend as a team.

Rivalry aside, Burnley presented this method absolutely textbook today and how other managers (not just Bowyer) don't take note of this style of play I find absolutely astounding. This isn't just something Dyche has introduced, Pearson, Mackay and many other managers understand attacking and defending AS A TEAM will get you out of this league.

Bottom line, these teams who get promoted don't have more ability than us, they work harder as a team than us and personally I find that the hardest thing to stomach.

You really are barking up the wrong tree Neal.

I agree your general point about the whole team needing to defend better, but this is because our back line and particularly our midfield drop far too deep and allow the opposing midfield a clear run between the half way line and the last third.

However your solution, to say sell Jordan Rhodes, and that he doesn't work hard enough is errant nonsense.

The evidence so far this season, Rudys goal against Cardiff ? JR got the tackle in just outside their box dispossessed a defender and Gestede scores. JRs opener against Bournemouth ? He chased down a defender inside their penalty area, dispossessed him and stuck it through the keepers legs.

We are basically far too defensive, selling a 25 goal a season striker doesn't seem like the right way to fix that to me.

Sorry mate but you aren't watching the same team as I'm watching. The two examples you have given me happened very early in games, this is something that is important for 90 minutes... I'd rather have a Dickov type player who can nick one, win 1-0 and chase down for 90 minutes than someone who gets his goal(s), can't do the rest and end up conceding 2 or 3 every week. I'm not really saying Rhodes doesn't work hard what I'm saying is he's either not fit enough and quick enough to do this job or Bowyer plainly doesn't see it to enforce it... Probably both in my eyes. I watched Bournemouth take throwins in their corner flag and play out unchallenged and be on the edge of our own box within 10 seconds... Yes this is an issue that all the squad can take blame for but your first line of defence is attack... Rudy is sometimes just as guilty. The manager has to take blame for signing this type of player, Varney and Brown certainly aren't quick enough to do this job.

I'll get all the stick in the world for saying this but it's the truth... If our manager has any strength it's in the transfer market and had he been given at least half the money from the sale of Rhodes he would have made this squad of players a whole lot better equipped to get out of this division... After all, Evans, Cairney, Gestede and Conway cost less that 2 million pounds.

The venom that people spit at those that merely suggest and give good honest reasoning for selling Rhodes is astounding. The fact that you think what I've said is 'errant nonsense' clarifies to me that you, like our manager, can't see the qualities that a team needs to get out of this league.

Someone said 'Jordan Rhodes is a luxury we can't afford' and at 12 million pounds I think it's high time that (given the lack of depth in our squad) people start to realise it. The lad is a great finisher... Better than Nugent, Vardy, Ings and Vokes but they're playing in the premier league and the reasons for that are not complicated... In fact... They are very very simple.

[quote][p][bold]greenscreener[/bold] wrote:
[quote][p][bold]NealB[/bold] wrote:
Honest to god...
We concede because we don't defend as a team, our forwards and midfielders make it an almost impossible task to keep teams out because they don't make enough fouls in the other half... Look at how many free kicks we gave away on the edge of our own box and today and against Bournemouth from letting teams play far too easily out of their own half when we should be boxing them in. We're lacking a Dickov type player who will chase down defenders and force mistakes for 90 minutes... Rhodes doesn't work hard enough and it's a bad move not to sell for 12 million when we're lacking depth and quality at full back and centre midfield. His goals didn't get us in the playoffs last season and wont get us in the playoffs this season.
Bowyer somehow doesn't see these issues and I find it unbelievable to be honest. It's all well and good signing good defenders but even good defenders at the top level are protected and teams defend as a team.
Rivalry aside, Burnley presented this method absolutely textbook today and how other managers (not just Bowyer) don't take note of this style of play I find absolutely astounding. This isn't just something Dyche has introduced, Pearson, Mackay and many other managers understand attacking and defending AS A TEAM will get you out of this league.
Bottom line, these teams who get promoted don't have more ability than us, they work harder as a team than us and personally I find that the hardest thing to stomach.[/p][/quote]You really are barking up the wrong tree Neal.
I agree your general point about the whole team needing to defend better, but this is because our back line and particularly our midfield drop far too deep and allow the opposing midfield a clear run between the half way line and the last third.
However your solution, to say sell Jordan Rhodes, and that he doesn't work hard enough is errant nonsense.
The evidence so far this season, Rudys goal against Cardiff ? JR got the tackle in just outside their box dispossessed a defender and Gestede scores. JRs opener against Bournemouth ? He chased down a defender inside their penalty area, dispossessed him and stuck it through the keepers legs.
We are basically far too defensive, selling a 25 goal a season striker doesn't seem like the right way to fix that to me.[/p][/quote]Sorry mate but you aren't watching the same team as I'm watching. The two examples you have given me happened very early in games, this is something that is important for 90 minutes... I'd rather have a Dickov type player who can nick one, win 1-0 and chase down for 90 minutes than someone who gets his goal(s), can't do the rest and end up conceding 2 or 3 every week. I'm not really saying Rhodes doesn't work hard what I'm saying is he's either not fit enough and quick enough to do this job or Bowyer plainly doesn't see it to enforce it... Probably both in my eyes. I watched Bournemouth take throwins in their corner flag and play out unchallenged and be on the edge of our own box within 10 seconds... Yes this is an issue that all the squad can take blame for but your first line of defence is attack... Rudy is sometimes just as guilty. The manager has to take blame for signing this type of player, Varney and Brown certainly aren't quick enough to do this job.
I'll get all the stick in the world for saying this but it's the truth... If our manager has any strength it's in the transfer market and had he been given at least half the money from the sale of Rhodes he would have made this squad of players a whole lot better equipped to get out of this division... After all, Evans, Cairney, Gestede and Conway cost less that 2 million pounds.
The venom that people spit at those that merely suggest and give good honest reasoning for selling Rhodes is astounding. The fact that you think what I've said is 'errant nonsense' clarifies to me that you, like our manager, can't see the qualities that a team needs to get out of this league.
Someone said 'Jordan Rhodes is a luxury we can't afford' and at 12 million pounds I think it's high time that (given the lack of depth in our squad) people start to realise it. The lad is a great finisher... Better than Nugent, Vardy, Ings and Vokes but they're playing in the premier league and the reasons for that are not complicated... In fact... They are very very simple.NealB

greenscreener wrote…

NealB wrote…

Honest to god...

We concede because we don't defend as a team, our forwards and midfielders make it an almost impossible task to keep teams out because they don't make enough fouls in the other half... Look at how many free kicks we gave away on the edge of our own box and today and against Bournemouth from letting teams play far too easily out of their own half when we should be boxing them in. We're lacking a Dickov type player who will chase down defenders and force mistakes for 90 minutes... Rhodes doesn't work hard enough and it's a bad move not to sell for 12 million when we're lacking depth and quality at full back and centre midfield. His goals didn't get us in the playoffs last season and wont get us in the playoffs this season.

Bowyer somehow doesn't see these issues and I find it unbelievable to be honest. It's all well and good signing good defenders but even good defenders at the top level are protected and teams defend as a team.

Rivalry aside, Burnley presented this method absolutely textbook today and how other managers (not just Bowyer) don't take note of this style of play I find absolutely astounding. This isn't just something Dyche has introduced, Pearson, Mackay and many other managers understand attacking and defending AS A TEAM will get you out of this league.

Bottom line, these teams who get promoted don't have more ability than us, they work harder as a team than us and personally I find that the hardest thing to stomach.

You really are barking up the wrong tree Neal.

I agree your general point about the whole team needing to defend better, but this is because our back line and particularly our midfield drop far too deep and allow the opposing midfield a clear run between the half way line and the last third.

However your solution, to say sell Jordan Rhodes, and that he doesn't work hard enough is errant nonsense.

The evidence so far this season, Rudys goal against Cardiff ? JR got the tackle in just outside their box dispossessed a defender and Gestede scores. JRs opener against Bournemouth ? He chased down a defender inside their penalty area, dispossessed him and stuck it through the keepers legs.

We are basically far too defensive, selling a 25 goal a season striker doesn't seem like the right way to fix that to me.

Sorry mate but you aren't watching the same team as I'm watching. The two examples you have given me happened very early in games, this is something that is important for 90 minutes... I'd rather have a Dickov type player who can nick one, win 1-0 and chase down for 90 minutes than someone who gets his goal(s), can't do the rest and end up conceding 2 or 3 every week. I'm not really saying Rhodes doesn't work hard what I'm saying is he's either not fit enough and quick enough to do this job or Bowyer plainly doesn't see it to enforce it... Probably both in my eyes. I watched Bournemouth take throwins in their corner flag and play out unchallenged and be on the edge of our own box within 10 seconds... Yes this is an issue that all the squad can take blame for but your first line of defence is attack... Rudy is sometimes just as guilty. The manager has to take blame for signing this type of player, Varney and Brown certainly aren't quick enough to do this job.

I'll get all the stick in the world for saying this but it's the truth... If our manager has any strength it's in the transfer market and had he been given at least half the money from the sale of Rhodes he would have made this squad of players a whole lot better equipped to get out of this division... After all, Evans, Cairney, Gestede and Conway cost less that 2 million pounds.

The venom that people spit at those that merely suggest and give good honest reasoning for selling Rhodes is astounding. The fact that you think what I've said is 'errant nonsense' clarifies to me that you, like our manager, can't see the qualities that a team needs to get out of this league.

Someone said 'Jordan Rhodes is a luxury we can't afford' and at 12 million pounds I think it's high time that (given the lack of depth in our squad) people start to realise it. The lad is a great finisher... Better than Nugent, Vardy, Ings and Vokes but they're playing in the premier league and the reasons for that are not complicated... In fact... They are very very simple.

Score: 1

Stone Island:
11:51am Sun 31 Aug 14

Garylla wrote…

I go back to California later today. Having seen Rovers concede 5 goals in 2 games but keep JR I go back being thankful we have the Venkys but wondering about GB's ability to get us promotion. We have the players but we don't have the tactics. Please sort it out before my next visit in November Gaz. COYB

Thankful we have the Venky's? The vermin in India, have all but destroyed our once proud club. And it's going to get worse, a lot worse.

[quote][p][bold]Garylla[/bold] wrote:
I go back to California later today. Having seen Rovers concede 5 goals in 2 games but keep JR I go back being thankful we have the Venkys but wondering about GB's ability to get us promotion. We have the players but we don't have the tactics. Please sort it out before my next visit in November Gaz. COYB[/p][/quote]Thankful we have the Venky's? The vermin in India, have all but destroyed our once proud club. And it's going to get worse, a lot worse.Stone Island:

Garylla wrote…

I go back to California later today. Having seen Rovers concede 5 goals in 2 games but keep JR I go back being thankful we have the Venkys but wondering about GB's ability to get us promotion. We have the players but we don't have the tactics. Please sort it out before my next visit in November Gaz. COYB

Thankful we have the Venky's? The vermin in India, have all but destroyed our once proud club. And it's going to get worse, a lot worse.

Score: 5

greenscreener
12:17pm Sun 31 Aug 14

NealB wrote…

greenscreener wrote…

NealB wrote…

Honest to god...

We concede because we don't defend as a team, our forwards and midfielders make it an almost impossible task to keep teams out because they don't make enough fouls in the other half... Look at how many free kicks we gave away on the edge of our own box and today and against Bournemouth from letting teams play far too easily out of their own half when we should be boxing them in. We're lacking a Dickov type player who will chase down defenders and force mistakes for 90 minutes... Rhodes doesn't work hard enough and it's a bad move not to sell for 12 million when we're lacking depth and quality at full back and centre midfield. His goals didn't get us in the playoffs last season and wont get us in the playoffs this season.

Bowyer somehow doesn't see these issues and I find it unbelievable to be honest. It's all well and good signing good defenders but even good defenders at the top level are protected and teams defend as a team.

Rivalry aside, Burnley presented this method absolutely textbook today and how other managers (not just Bowyer) don't take note of this style of play I find absolutely astounding. This isn't just something Dyche has introduced, Pearson, Mackay and many other managers understand attacking and defending AS A TEAM will get you out of this league.

Bottom line, these teams who get promoted don't have more ability than us, they work harder as a team than us and personally I find that the hardest thing to stomach.

You really are barking up the wrong tree Neal.

I agree your general point about the whole team needing to defend better, but this is because our back line and particularly our midfield drop far too deep and allow the opposing midfield a clear run between the half way line and the last third.

However your solution, to say sell Jordan Rhodes, and that he doesn't work hard enough is errant nonsense.

The evidence so far this season, Rudys goal against Cardiff ? JR got the tackle in just outside their box dispossessed a defender and Gestede scores. JRs opener against Bournemouth ? He chased down a defender inside their penalty area, dispossessed him and stuck it through the keepers legs.

We are basically far too defensive, selling a 25 goal a season striker doesn't seem like the right way to fix that to me.

Sorry mate but you aren't watching the same team as I'm watching. The two examples you have given me happened very early in games, this is something that is important for 90 minutes... I'd rather have a Dickov type player who can nick one, win 1-0 and chase down for 90 minutes than someone who gets his goal(s), can't do the rest and end up conceding 2 or 3 every week. I'm not really saying Rhodes doesn't work hard what I'm saying is he's either not fit enough and quick enough to do this job or Bowyer plainly doesn't see it to enforce it... Probably both in my eyes. I watched Bournemouth take throwins in their corner flag and play out unchallenged and be on the edge of our own box within 10 seconds... Yes this is an issue that all the squad can take blame for but your first line of defence is attack... Rudy is sometimes just as guilty. The manager has to take blame for signing this type of player, Varney and Brown certainly aren't quick enough to do this job.

I'll get all the stick in the world for saying this but it's the truth... If our manager has any strength it's in the transfer market and had he been given at least half the money from the sale of Rhodes he would have made this squad of players a whole lot better equipped to get out of this division... After all, Evans, Cairney, Gestede and Conway cost less that 2 million pounds.

The venom that people spit at those that merely suggest and give good honest reasoning for selling Rhodes is astounding. The fact that you think what I've said is 'errant nonsense' clarifies to me that you, like our manager, can't see the qualities that a team needs to get out of this league.

Someone said 'Jordan Rhodes is a luxury we can't afford' and at 12 million pounds I think it's high time that (given the lack of depth in our squad) people start to realise it. The lad is a great finisher... Better than Nugent, Vardy, Ings and Vokes but they're playing in the premier league and the reasons for that are not complicated... In fact... They are very very simple.

Yes, they are not playing in front of Williamson, and a flat back-8.

Until you change the tactics it doesn't matter who you have in there, and frankly loosing the top goal scorer is the last thing you need when you can't keep a clean sheet.

[quote][p][bold]NealB[/bold] wrote:
[quote][p][bold]greenscreener[/bold] wrote:
[quote][p][bold]NealB[/bold] wrote:
Honest to god...
We concede because we don't defend as a team, our forwards and midfielders make it an almost impossible task to keep teams out because they don't make enough fouls in the other half... Look at how many free kicks we gave away on the edge of our own box and today and against Bournemouth from letting teams play far too easily out of their own half when we should be boxing them in. We're lacking a Dickov type player who will chase down defenders and force mistakes for 90 minutes... Rhodes doesn't work hard enough and it's a bad move not to sell for 12 million when we're lacking depth and quality at full back and centre midfield. His goals didn't get us in the playoffs last season and wont get us in the playoffs this season.
Bowyer somehow doesn't see these issues and I find it unbelievable to be honest. It's all well and good signing good defenders but even good defenders at the top level are protected and teams defend as a team.
Rivalry aside, Burnley presented this method absolutely textbook today and how other managers (not just Bowyer) don't take note of this style of play I find absolutely astounding. This isn't just something Dyche has introduced, Pearson, Mackay and many other managers understand attacking and defending AS A TEAM will get you out of this league.
Bottom line, these teams who get promoted don't have more ability than us, they work harder as a team than us and personally I find that the hardest thing to stomach.[/p][/quote]You really are barking up the wrong tree Neal.
I agree your general point about the whole team needing to defend better, but this is because our back line and particularly our midfield drop far too deep and allow the opposing midfield a clear run between the half way line and the last third.
However your solution, to say sell Jordan Rhodes, and that he doesn't work hard enough is errant nonsense.
The evidence so far this season, Rudys goal against Cardiff ? JR got the tackle in just outside their box dispossessed a defender and Gestede scores. JRs opener against Bournemouth ? He chased down a defender inside their penalty area, dispossessed him and stuck it through the keepers legs.
We are basically far too defensive, selling a 25 goal a season striker doesn't seem like the right way to fix that to me.[/p][/quote]Sorry mate but you aren't watching the same team as I'm watching. The two examples you have given me happened very early in games, this is something that is important for 90 minutes... I'd rather have a Dickov type player who can nick one, win 1-0 and chase down for 90 minutes than someone who gets his goal(s), can't do the rest and end up conceding 2 or 3 every week. I'm not really saying Rhodes doesn't work hard what I'm saying is he's either not fit enough and quick enough to do this job or Bowyer plainly doesn't see it to enforce it... Probably both in my eyes. I watched Bournemouth take throwins in their corner flag and play out unchallenged and be on the edge of our own box within 10 seconds... Yes this is an issue that all the squad can take blame for but your first line of defence is attack... Rudy is sometimes just as guilty. The manager has to take blame for signing this type of player, Varney and Brown certainly aren't quick enough to do this job.
I'll get all the stick in the world for saying this but it's the truth... If our manager has any strength it's in the transfer market and had he been given at least half the money from the sale of Rhodes he would have made this squad of players a whole lot better equipped to get out of this division... After all, Evans, Cairney, Gestede and Conway cost less that 2 million pounds.
The venom that people spit at those that merely suggest and give good honest reasoning for selling Rhodes is astounding. The fact that you think what I've said is 'errant nonsense' clarifies to me that you, like our manager, can't see the qualities that a team needs to get out of this league.
Someone said 'Jordan Rhodes is a luxury we can't afford' and at 12 million pounds I think it's high time that (given the lack of depth in our squad) people start to realise it. The lad is a great finisher... Better than Nugent, Vardy, Ings and Vokes but they're playing in the premier league and the reasons for that are not complicated... In fact... They are very very simple.[/p][/quote]Yes, they are not playing in front of Williamson, and a flat back-8.
Until you change the tactics it doesn't matter who you have in there, and frankly loosing the top goal scorer is the last thing you need when you can't keep a clean sheet.greenscreener

NealB wrote…

greenscreener wrote…

NealB wrote…

Honest to god...

We concede because we don't defend as a team, our forwards and midfielders make it an almost impossible task to keep teams out because they don't make enough fouls in the other half... Look at how many free kicks we gave away on the edge of our own box and today and against Bournemouth from letting teams play far too easily out of their own half when we should be boxing them in. We're lacking a Dickov type player who will chase down defenders and force mistakes for 90 minutes... Rhodes doesn't work hard enough and it's a bad move not to sell for 12 million when we're lacking depth and quality at full back and centre midfield. His goals didn't get us in the playoffs last season and wont get us in the playoffs this season.

Bowyer somehow doesn't see these issues and I find it unbelievable to be honest. It's all well and good signing good defenders but even good defenders at the top level are protected and teams defend as a team.

Rivalry aside, Burnley presented this method absolutely textbook today and how other managers (not just Bowyer) don't take note of this style of play I find absolutely astounding. This isn't just something Dyche has introduced, Pearson, Mackay and many other managers understand attacking and defending AS A TEAM will get you out of this league.

Bottom line, these teams who get promoted don't have more ability than us, they work harder as a team than us and personally I find that the hardest thing to stomach.

You really are barking up the wrong tree Neal.

I agree your general point about the whole team needing to defend better, but this is because our back line and particularly our midfield drop far too deep and allow the opposing midfield a clear run between the half way line and the last third.

However your solution, to say sell Jordan Rhodes, and that he doesn't work hard enough is errant nonsense.

The evidence so far this season, Rudys goal against Cardiff ? JR got the tackle in just outside their box dispossessed a defender and Gestede scores. JRs opener against Bournemouth ? He chased down a defender inside their penalty area, dispossessed him and stuck it through the keepers legs.

We are basically far too defensive, selling a 25 goal a season striker doesn't seem like the right way to fix that to me.

Sorry mate but you aren't watching the same team as I'm watching. The two examples you have given me happened very early in games, this is something that is important for 90 minutes... I'd rather have a Dickov type player who can nick one, win 1-0 and chase down for 90 minutes than someone who gets his goal(s), can't do the rest and end up conceding 2 or 3 every week. I'm not really saying Rhodes doesn't work hard what I'm saying is he's either not fit enough and quick enough to do this job or Bowyer plainly doesn't see it to enforce it... Probably both in my eyes. I watched Bournemouth take throwins in their corner flag and play out unchallenged and be on the edge of our own box within 10 seconds... Yes this is an issue that all the squad can take blame for but your first line of defence is attack... Rudy is sometimes just as guilty. The manager has to take blame for signing this type of player, Varney and Brown certainly aren't quick enough to do this job.

I'll get all the stick in the world for saying this but it's the truth... If our manager has any strength it's in the transfer market and had he been given at least half the money from the sale of Rhodes he would have made this squad of players a whole lot better equipped to get out of this division... After all, Evans, Cairney, Gestede and Conway cost less that 2 million pounds.

The venom that people spit at those that merely suggest and give good honest reasoning for selling Rhodes is astounding. The fact that you think what I've said is 'errant nonsense' clarifies to me that you, like our manager, can't see the qualities that a team needs to get out of this league.

Someone said 'Jordan Rhodes is a luxury we can't afford' and at 12 million pounds I think it's high time that (given the lack of depth in our squad) people start to realise it. The lad is a great finisher... Better than Nugent, Vardy, Ings and Vokes but they're playing in the premier league and the reasons for that are not complicated... In fact... They are very very simple.

Yes, they are not playing in front of Williamson, and a flat back-8.

Until you change the tactics it doesn't matter who you have in there, and frankly loosing the top goal scorer is the last thing you need when you can't keep a clean sheet.

Score: 2

ComeDine WithMe
12:25pm Sun 31 Aug 14

Defence is dire, from what I saw against Bournemouth in the 2nd half - God help us. Signing Duffy is a positive step though, COYB!

Defence is dire, from what I saw against Bournemouth in the 2nd half - God help us. Signing Duffy is a positive step though, COYB!ComeDine WithMe

Defence is dire, from what I saw against Bournemouth in the 2nd half - God help us. Signing Duffy is a positive step though, COYB!

Score: 2

Rovers 1495
12:30pm Sun 31 Aug 14

Message for Mr Bowyer

Don't ever play Williamson again.

Message for Mr Bowyer
Don't ever play Williamson again.Rovers 1495

Message for Mr Bowyer

Don't ever play Williamson again.

Score: 5

NealB
12:51pm Sun 31 Aug 14

greenscreener wrote…

NealB wrote…

greenscreener wrote…

NealB wrote…

Honest to god...

We concede because we don't defend as a team, our forwards and midfielders make it an almost impossible task to keep teams out because they don't make enough fouls in the other half... Look at how many free kicks we gave away on the edge of our own box and today and against Bournemouth from letting teams play far too easily out of their own half when we should be boxing them in. We're lacking a Dickov type player who will chase down defenders and force mistakes for 90 minutes... Rhodes doesn't work hard enough and it's a bad move not to sell for 12 million when we're lacking depth and quality at full back and centre midfield. His goals didn't get us in the playoffs last season and wont get us in the playoffs this season.

Bowyer somehow doesn't see these issues and I find it unbelievable to be honest. It's all well and good signing good defenders but even good defenders at the top level are protected and teams defend as a team.

Rivalry aside, Burnley presented this method absolutely textbook today and how other managers (not just Bowyer) don't take note of this style of play I find absolutely astounding. This isn't just something Dyche has introduced, Pearson, Mackay and many other managers understand attacking and defending AS A TEAM will get you out of this league.

Bottom line, these teams who get promoted don't have more ability than us, they work harder as a team than us and personally I find that the hardest thing to stomach.

You really are barking up the wrong tree Neal.

I agree your general point about the whole team needing to defend better, but this is because our back line and particularly our midfield drop far too deep and allow the opposing midfield a clear run between the half way line and the last third.

However your solution, to say sell Jordan Rhodes, and that he doesn't work hard enough is errant nonsense.

The evidence so far this season, Rudys goal against Cardiff ? JR got the tackle in just outside their box dispossessed a defender and Gestede scores. JRs opener against Bournemouth ? He chased down a defender inside their penalty area, dispossessed him and stuck it through the keepers legs.

We are basically far too defensive, selling a 25 goal a season striker doesn't seem like the right way to fix that to me.

Sorry mate but you aren't watching the same team as I'm watching. The two examples you have given me happened very early in games, this is something that is important for 90 minutes... I'd rather have a Dickov type player who can nick one, win 1-0 and chase down for 90 minutes than someone who gets his goal(s), can't do the rest and end up conceding 2 or 3 every week. I'm not really saying Rhodes doesn't work hard what I'm saying is he's either not fit enough and quick enough to do this job or Bowyer plainly doesn't see it to enforce it... Probably both in my eyes. I watched Bournemouth take throwins in their corner flag and play out unchallenged and be on the edge of our own box within 10 seconds... Yes this is an issue that all the squad can take blame for but your first line of defence is attack... Rudy is sometimes just as guilty. The manager has to take blame for signing this type of player, Varney and Brown certainly aren't quick enough to do this job.

I'll get all the stick in the world for saying this but it's the truth... If our manager has any strength it's in the transfer market and had he been given at least half the money from the sale of Rhodes he would have made this squad of players a whole lot better equipped to get out of this division... After all, Evans, Cairney, Gestede and Conway cost less that 2 million pounds.

The venom that people spit at those that merely suggest and give good honest reasoning for selling Rhodes is astounding. The fact that you think what I've said is 'errant nonsense' clarifies to me that you, like our manager, can't see the qualities that a team needs to get out of this league.

Someone said 'Jordan Rhodes is a luxury we can't afford' and at 12 million pounds I think it's high time that (given the lack of depth in our squad) people start to realise it. The lad is a great finisher... Better than Nugent, Vardy, Ings and Vokes but they're playing in the premier league and the reasons for that are not complicated... In fact... They are very very simple.

Yes, they are not playing in front of Williamson, and a flat back-8.

Until you change the tactics it doesn't matter who you have in there, and frankly loosing the top goal scorer is the last thing you need when you can't keep a clean sheet.

You know very well Williamson isn't a regular starter and flat back 8??? You're missing the point completely...

As far as "loosing your top goalscorer is the last thing you need when you can't keep a clean sheet".... Perhaps the previous posts I've posted were in latin? Maybe this wall will have a better understanding? I'll give it a shot.

If you can't debate, don't debate.

[quote][p][bold]greenscreener[/bold] wrote:
[quote][p][bold]NealB[/bold] wrote:
[quote][p][bold]greenscreener[/bold] wrote:
[quote][p][bold]NealB[/bold] wrote:
Honest to god...
We concede because we don't defend as a team, our forwards and midfielders make it an almost impossible task to keep teams out because they don't make enough fouls in the other half... Look at how many free kicks we gave away on the edge of our own box and today and against Bournemouth from letting teams play far too easily out of their own half when we should be boxing them in. We're lacking a Dickov type player who will chase down defenders and force mistakes for 90 minutes... Rhodes doesn't work hard enough and it's a bad move not to sell for 12 million when we're lacking depth and quality at full back and centre midfield. His goals didn't get us in the playoffs last season and wont get us in the playoffs this season.
Bowyer somehow doesn't see these issues and I find it unbelievable to be honest. It's all well and good signing good defenders but even good defenders at the top level are protected and teams defend as a team.
Rivalry aside, Burnley presented this method absolutely textbook today and how other managers (not just Bowyer) don't take note of this style of play I find absolutely astounding. This isn't just something Dyche has introduced, Pearson, Mackay and many other managers understand attacking and defending AS A TEAM will get you out of this league.
Bottom line, these teams who get promoted don't have more ability than us, they work harder as a team than us and personally I find that the hardest thing to stomach.[/p][/quote]You really are barking up the wrong tree Neal.
I agree your general point about the whole team needing to defend better, but this is because our back line and particularly our midfield drop far too deep and allow the opposing midfield a clear run between the half way line and the last third.
However your solution, to say sell Jordan Rhodes, and that he doesn't work hard enough is errant nonsense.
The evidence so far this season, Rudys goal against Cardiff ? JR got the tackle in just outside their box dispossessed a defender and Gestede scores. JRs opener against Bournemouth ? He chased down a defender inside their penalty area, dispossessed him and stuck it through the keepers legs.
We are basically far too defensive, selling a 25 goal a season striker doesn't seem like the right way to fix that to me.[/p][/quote]Sorry mate but you aren't watching the same team as I'm watching. The two examples you have given me happened very early in games, this is something that is important for 90 minutes... I'd rather have a Dickov type player who can nick one, win 1-0 and chase down for 90 minutes than someone who gets his goal(s), can't do the rest and end up conceding 2 or 3 every week. I'm not really saying Rhodes doesn't work hard what I'm saying is he's either not fit enough and quick enough to do this job or Bowyer plainly doesn't see it to enforce it... Probably both in my eyes. I watched Bournemouth take throwins in their corner flag and play out unchallenged and be on the edge of our own box within 10 seconds... Yes this is an issue that all the squad can take blame for but your first line of defence is attack... Rudy is sometimes just as guilty. The manager has to take blame for signing this type of player, Varney and Brown certainly aren't quick enough to do this job.
I'll get all the stick in the world for saying this but it's the truth... If our manager has any strength it's in the transfer market and had he been given at least half the money from the sale of Rhodes he would have made this squad of players a whole lot better equipped to get out of this division... After all, Evans, Cairney, Gestede and Conway cost less that 2 million pounds.
The venom that people spit at those that merely suggest and give good honest reasoning for selling Rhodes is astounding. The fact that you think what I've said is 'errant nonsense' clarifies to me that you, like our manager, can't see the qualities that a team needs to get out of this league.
Someone said 'Jordan Rhodes is a luxury we can't afford' and at 12 million pounds I think it's high time that (given the lack of depth in our squad) people start to realise it. The lad is a great finisher... Better than Nugent, Vardy, Ings and Vokes but they're playing in the premier league and the reasons for that are not complicated... In fact... They are very very simple.[/p][/quote]Yes, they are not playing in front of Williamson, and a flat back-8.
Until you change the tactics it doesn't matter who you have in there, and frankly loosing the top goal scorer is the last thing you need when you can't keep a clean sheet.[/p][/quote]You know very well Williamson isn't a regular starter and flat back 8??? You're missing the point completely...
As far as "loosing your top goalscorer is the last thing you need when you can't keep a clean sheet".... Perhaps the previous posts I've posted were in latin? Maybe this wall will have a better understanding? I'll give it a shot.
If you can't debate, don't debate.NealB

greenscreener wrote…

NealB wrote…

greenscreener wrote…

NealB wrote…

Honest to god...

We concede because we don't defend as a team, our forwards and midfielders make it an almost impossible task to keep teams out because they don't make enough fouls in the other half... Look at how many free kicks we gave away on the edge of our own box and today and against Bournemouth from letting teams play far too easily out of their own half when we should be boxing them in. We're lacking a Dickov type player who will chase down defenders and force mistakes for 90 minutes... Rhodes doesn't work hard enough and it's a bad move not to sell for 12 million when we're lacking depth and quality at full back and centre midfield. His goals didn't get us in the playoffs last season and wont get us in the playoffs this season.

Bowyer somehow doesn't see these issues and I find it unbelievable to be honest. It's all well and good signing good defenders but even good defenders at the top level are protected and teams defend as a team.

Rivalry aside, Burnley presented this method absolutely textbook today and how other managers (not just Bowyer) don't take note of this style of play I find absolutely astounding. This isn't just something Dyche has introduced, Pearson, Mackay and many other managers understand attacking and defending AS A TEAM will get you out of this league.

Bottom line, these teams who get promoted don't have more ability than us, they work harder as a team than us and personally I find that the hardest thing to stomach.

You really are barking up the wrong tree Neal.

I agree your general point about the whole team needing to defend better, but this is because our back line and particularly our midfield drop far too deep and allow the opposing midfield a clear run between the half way line and the last third.

However your solution, to say sell Jordan Rhodes, and that he doesn't work hard enough is errant nonsense.

The evidence so far this season, Rudys goal against Cardiff ? JR got the tackle in just outside their box dispossessed a defender and Gestede scores. JRs opener against Bournemouth ? He chased down a defender inside their penalty area, dispossessed him and stuck it through the keepers legs.

We are basically far too defensive, selling a 25 goal a season striker doesn't seem like the right way to fix that to me.

Sorry mate but you aren't watching the same team as I'm watching. The two examples you have given me happened very early in games, this is something that is important for 90 minutes... I'd rather have a Dickov type player who can nick one, win 1-0 and chase down for 90 minutes than someone who gets his goal(s), can't do the rest and end up conceding 2 or 3 every week. I'm not really saying Rhodes doesn't work hard what I'm saying is he's either not fit enough and quick enough to do this job or Bowyer plainly doesn't see it to enforce it... Probably both in my eyes. I watched Bournemouth take throwins in their corner flag and play out unchallenged and be on the edge of our own box within 10 seconds... Yes this is an issue that all the squad can take blame for but your first line of defence is attack... Rudy is sometimes just as guilty. The manager has to take blame for signing this type of player, Varney and Brown certainly aren't quick enough to do this job.

I'll get all the stick in the world for saying this but it's the truth... If our manager has any strength it's in the transfer market and had he been given at least half the money from the sale of Rhodes he would have made this squad of players a whole lot better equipped to get out of this division... After all, Evans, Cairney, Gestede and Conway cost less that 2 million pounds.

The venom that people spit at those that merely suggest and give good honest reasoning for selling Rhodes is astounding. The fact that you think what I've said is 'errant nonsense' clarifies to me that you, like our manager, can't see the qualities that a team needs to get out of this league.

Someone said 'Jordan Rhodes is a luxury we can't afford' and at 12 million pounds I think it's high time that (given the lack of depth in our squad) people start to realise it. The lad is a great finisher... Better than Nugent, Vardy, Ings and Vokes but they're playing in the premier league and the reasons for that are not complicated... In fact... They are very very simple.

Yes, they are not playing in front of Williamson, and a flat back-8.

Until you change the tactics it doesn't matter who you have in there, and frankly loosing the top goal scorer is the last thing you need when you can't keep a clean sheet.

You know very well Williamson isn't a regular starter and flat back 8??? You're missing the point completely...

As far as "loosing your top goalscorer is the last thing you need when you can't keep a clean sheet".... Perhaps the previous posts I've posted were in latin? Maybe this wall will have a better understanding? I'll give it a shot.

If you can't debate, don't debate.

Score: -5

greenscreener
1:59pm Sun 31 Aug 14

NealB wrote…

greenscreener wrote…

NealB wrote…

greenscreener wrote…

NealB wrote…

Honest to god...

We concede because we don't defend as a team, our forwards and midfielders make it an almost impossible task to keep teams out because they don't make enough fouls in the other half... Look at how many free kicks we gave away on the edge of our own box and today and against Bournemouth from letting teams play far too easily out of their own half when we should be boxing them in. We're lacking a Dickov type player who will chase down defenders and force mistakes for 90 minutes... Rhodes doesn't work hard enough and it's a bad move not to sell for 12 million when we're lacking depth and quality at full back and centre midfield. His goals didn't get us in the playoffs last season and wont get us in the playoffs this season.

Bowyer somehow doesn't see these issues and I find it unbelievable to be honest. It's all well and good signing good defenders but even good defenders at the top level are protected and teams defend as a team.

Rivalry aside, Burnley presented this method absolutely textbook today and how other managers (not just Bowyer) don't take note of this style of play I find absolutely astounding. This isn't just something Dyche has introduced, Pearson, Mackay and many other managers understand attacking and defending AS A TEAM will get you out of this league.

Bottom line, these teams who get promoted don't have more ability than us, they work harder as a team than us and personally I find that the hardest thing to stomach.

You really are barking up the wrong tree Neal.

I agree your general point about the whole team needing to defend better, but this is because our back line and particularly our midfield drop far too deep and allow the opposing midfield a clear run between the half way line and the last third.

However your solution, to say sell Jordan Rhodes, and that he doesn't work hard enough is errant nonsense.

The evidence so far this season, Rudys goal against Cardiff ? JR got the tackle in just outside their box dispossessed a defender and Gestede scores. JRs opener against Bournemouth ? He chased down a defender inside their penalty area, dispossessed him and stuck it through the keepers legs.

We are basically far too defensive, selling a 25 goal a season striker doesn't seem like the right way to fix that to me.

Sorry mate but you aren't watching the same team as I'm watching. The two examples you have given me happened very early in games, this is something that is important for 90 minutes... I'd rather have a Dickov type player who can nick one, win 1-0 and chase down for 90 minutes than someone who gets his goal(s), can't do the rest and end up conceding 2 or 3 every week. I'm not really saying Rhodes doesn't work hard what I'm saying is he's either not fit enough and quick enough to do this job or Bowyer plainly doesn't see it to enforce it... Probably both in my eyes. I watched Bournemouth take throwins in their corner flag and play out unchallenged and be on the edge of our own box within 10 seconds... Yes this is an issue that all the squad can take blame for but your first line of defence is attack... Rudy is sometimes just as guilty. The manager has to take blame for signing this type of player, Varney and Brown certainly aren't quick enough to do this job.

I'll get all the stick in the world for saying this but it's the truth... If our manager has any strength it's in the transfer market and had he been given at least half the money from the sale of Rhodes he would have made this squad of players a whole lot better equipped to get out of this division... After all, Evans, Cairney, Gestede and Conway cost less that 2 million pounds.

The venom that people spit at those that merely suggest and give good honest reasoning for selling Rhodes is astounding. The fact that you think what I've said is 'errant nonsense' clarifies to me that you, like our manager, can't see the qualities that a team needs to get out of this league.

Someone said 'Jordan Rhodes is a luxury we can't afford' and at 12 million pounds I think it's high time that (given the lack of depth in our squad) people start to realise it. The lad is a great finisher... Better than Nugent, Vardy, Ings and Vokes but they're playing in the premier league and the reasons for that are not complicated... In fact... They are very very simple.

Yes, they are not playing in front of Williamson, and a flat back-8.

Until you change the tactics it doesn't matter who you have in there, and frankly loosing the top goal scorer is the last thing you need when you can't keep a clean sheet.

You know very well Williamson isn't a regular starter and flat back 8??? You're missing the point completely...

As far as "loosing your top goalscorer is the last thing you need when you can't keep a clean sheet".... Perhaps the previous posts I've posted were in latin? Maybe this wall will have a better understanding? I'll give it a shot.

If you can't debate, don't debate.

Your previous posts were arguing for us to sell JR , something I don't agree with.

I think the teams issue is as much about tactics as it is about personnel. The existing squad could be fitter stronger and better organised to achieve your aim without sacrificing a prized asset.

You could Sell Rhodes and bring in different defenders and midfield players, but unless you tell them to play on the front foot, rather than defending deep you will still leak goals, the difference is that you no longer have a steady supply of goals.

To debate you need a difference of opinion, I think that's what we have.

[quote][p][bold]NealB[/bold] wrote:
[quote][p][bold]greenscreener[/bold] wrote:
[quote][p][bold]NealB[/bold] wrote:
[quote][p][bold]greenscreener[/bold] wrote:
[quote][p][bold]NealB[/bold] wrote:
Honest to god...
We concede because we don't defend as a team, our forwards and midfielders make it an almost impossible task to keep teams out because they don't make enough fouls in the other half... Look at how many free kicks we gave away on the edge of our own box and today and against Bournemouth from letting teams play far too easily out of their own half when we should be boxing them in. We're lacking a Dickov type player who will chase down defenders and force mistakes for 90 minutes... Rhodes doesn't work hard enough and it's a bad move not to sell for 12 million when we're lacking depth and quality at full back and centre midfield. His goals didn't get us in the playoffs last season and wont get us in the playoffs this season.
Bowyer somehow doesn't see these issues and I find it unbelievable to be honest. It's all well and good signing good defenders but even good defenders at the top level are protected and teams defend as a team.
Rivalry aside, Burnley presented this method absolutely textbook today and how other managers (not just Bowyer) don't take note of this style of play I find absolutely astounding. This isn't just something Dyche has introduced, Pearson, Mackay and many other managers understand attacking and defending AS A TEAM will get you out of this league.
Bottom line, these teams who get promoted don't have more ability than us, they work harder as a team than us and personally I find that the hardest thing to stomach.[/p][/quote]You really are barking up the wrong tree Neal.
I agree your general point about the whole team needing to defend better, but this is because our back line and particularly our midfield drop far too deep and allow the opposing midfield a clear run between the half way line and the last third.
However your solution, to say sell Jordan Rhodes, and that he doesn't work hard enough is errant nonsense.
The evidence so far this season, Rudys goal against Cardiff ? JR got the tackle in just outside their box dispossessed a defender and Gestede scores. JRs opener against Bournemouth ? He chased down a defender inside their penalty area, dispossessed him and stuck it through the keepers legs.
We are basically far too defensive, selling a 25 goal a season striker doesn't seem like the right way to fix that to me.[/p][/quote]Sorry mate but you aren't watching the same team as I'm watching. The two examples you have given me happened very early in games, this is something that is important for 90 minutes... I'd rather have a Dickov type player who can nick one, win 1-0 and chase down for 90 minutes than someone who gets his goal(s), can't do the rest and end up conceding 2 or 3 every week. I'm not really saying Rhodes doesn't work hard what I'm saying is he's either not fit enough and quick enough to do this job or Bowyer plainly doesn't see it to enforce it... Probably both in my eyes. I watched Bournemouth take throwins in their corner flag and play out unchallenged and be on the edge of our own box within 10 seconds... Yes this is an issue that all the squad can take blame for but your first line of defence is attack... Rudy is sometimes just as guilty. The manager has to take blame for signing this type of player, Varney and Brown certainly aren't quick enough to do this job.
I'll get all the stick in the world for saying this but it's the truth... If our manager has any strength it's in the transfer market and had he been given at least half the money from the sale of Rhodes he would have made this squad of players a whole lot better equipped to get out of this division... After all, Evans, Cairney, Gestede and Conway cost less that 2 million pounds.
The venom that people spit at those that merely suggest and give good honest reasoning for selling Rhodes is astounding. The fact that you think what I've said is 'errant nonsense' clarifies to me that you, like our manager, can't see the qualities that a team needs to get out of this league.
Someone said 'Jordan Rhodes is a luxury we can't afford' and at 12 million pounds I think it's high time that (given the lack of depth in our squad) people start to realise it. The lad is a great finisher... Better than Nugent, Vardy, Ings and Vokes but they're playing in the premier league and the reasons for that are not complicated... In fact... They are very very simple.[/p][/quote]Yes, they are not playing in front of Williamson, and a flat back-8.
Until you change the tactics it doesn't matter who you have in there, and frankly loosing the top goal scorer is the last thing you need when you can't keep a clean sheet.[/p][/quote]You know very well Williamson isn't a regular starter and flat back 8??? You're missing the point completely...
As far as "loosing your top goalscorer is the last thing you need when you can't keep a clean sheet".... Perhaps the previous posts I've posted were in latin? Maybe this wall will have a better understanding? I'll give it a shot.
If you can't debate, don't debate.[/p][/quote]Your previous posts were arguing for us to sell JR , something I don't agree with.
I think the teams issue is as much about tactics as it is about personnel. The existing squad could be fitter stronger and better organised to achieve your aim without sacrificing a prized asset.
You could Sell Rhodes and bring in different defenders and midfield players, but unless you tell them to play on the front foot, rather than defending deep you will still leak goals, the difference is that you no longer have a steady supply of goals.
To debate you need a difference of opinion, I think that's what we have.greenscreener

NealB wrote…

greenscreener wrote…

NealB wrote…

greenscreener wrote…

NealB wrote…

Honest to god...

We concede because we don't defend as a team, our forwards and midfielders make it an almost impossible task to keep teams out because they don't make enough fouls in the other half... Look at how many free kicks we gave away on the edge of our own box and today and against Bournemouth from letting teams play far too easily out of their own half when we should be boxing them in. We're lacking a Dickov type player who will chase down defenders and force mistakes for 90 minutes... Rhodes doesn't work hard enough and it's a bad move not to sell for 12 million when we're lacking depth and quality at full back and centre midfield. His goals didn't get us in the playoffs last season and wont get us in the playoffs this season.

Bowyer somehow doesn't see these issues and I find it unbelievable to be honest. It's all well and good signing good defenders but even good defenders at the top level are protected and teams defend as a team.

Rivalry aside, Burnley presented this method absolutely textbook today and how other managers (not just Bowyer) don't take note of this style of play I find absolutely astounding. This isn't just something Dyche has introduced, Pearson, Mackay and many other managers understand attacking and defending AS A TEAM will get you out of this league.

Bottom line, these teams who get promoted don't have more ability than us, they work harder as a team than us and personally I find that the hardest thing to stomach.

You really are barking up the wrong tree Neal.

I agree your general point about the whole team needing to defend better, but this is because our back line and particularly our midfield drop far too deep and allow the opposing midfield a clear run between the half way line and the last third.

However your solution, to say sell Jordan Rhodes, and that he doesn't work hard enough is errant nonsense.

The evidence so far this season, Rudys goal against Cardiff ? JR got the tackle in just outside their box dispossessed a defender and Gestede scores. JRs opener against Bournemouth ? He chased down a defender inside their penalty area, dispossessed him and stuck it through the keepers legs.

We are basically far too defensive, selling a 25 goal a season striker doesn't seem like the right way to fix that to me.

Sorry mate but you aren't watching the same team as I'm watching. The two examples you have given me happened very early in games, this is something that is important for 90 minutes... I'd rather have a Dickov type player who can nick one, win 1-0 and chase down for 90 minutes than someone who gets his goal(s), can't do the rest and end up conceding 2 or 3 every week. I'm not really saying Rhodes doesn't work hard what I'm saying is he's either not fit enough and quick enough to do this job or Bowyer plainly doesn't see it to enforce it... Probably both in my eyes. I watched Bournemouth take throwins in their corner flag and play out unchallenged and be on the edge of our own box within 10 seconds... Yes this is an issue that all the squad can take blame for but your first line of defence is attack... Rudy is sometimes just as guilty. The manager has to take blame for signing this type of player, Varney and Brown certainly aren't quick enough to do this job.

I'll get all the stick in the world for saying this but it's the truth... If our manager has any strength it's in the transfer market and had he been given at least half the money from the sale of Rhodes he would have made this squad of players a whole lot better equipped to get out of this division... After all, Evans, Cairney, Gestede and Conway cost less that 2 million pounds.

The venom that people spit at those that merely suggest and give good honest reasoning for selling Rhodes is astounding. The fact that you think what I've said is 'errant nonsense' clarifies to me that you, like our manager, can't see the qualities that a team needs to get out of this league.

Someone said 'Jordan Rhodes is a luxury we can't afford' and at 12 million pounds I think it's high time that (given the lack of depth in our squad) people start to realise it. The lad is a great finisher... Better than Nugent, Vardy, Ings and Vokes but they're playing in the premier league and the reasons for that are not complicated... In fact... They are very very simple.

Yes, they are not playing in front of Williamson, and a flat back-8.

Until you change the tactics it doesn't matter who you have in there, and frankly loosing the top goal scorer is the last thing you need when you can't keep a clean sheet.

You know very well Williamson isn't a regular starter and flat back 8??? You're missing the point completely...

As far as "loosing your top goalscorer is the last thing you need when you can't keep a clean sheet".... Perhaps the previous posts I've posted were in latin? Maybe this wall will have a better understanding? I'll give it a shot.

If you can't debate, don't debate.

Your previous posts were arguing for us to sell JR , something I don't agree with.

I think the teams issue is as much about tactics as it is about personnel. The existing squad could be fitter stronger and better organised to achieve your aim without sacrificing a prized asset.

You could Sell Rhodes and bring in different defenders and midfield players, but unless you tell them to play on the front foot, rather than defending deep you will still leak goals, the difference is that you no longer have a steady supply of goals.

To debate you need a difference of opinion, I think that's what we have.

Score: 2

roverstid
4:36pm Sun 31 Aug 14

accylongside wrote…

Garylla wrote…

I go back to California later today. Having seen Rovers concede 5 goals in 2 games but keep JR I go back being thankful we have the Venkys but wondering about GB's ability to get us promotion. We have the players but we don't have the tactics. Please sort it out before my next visit in November Gaz. COYB

Rhodes will be gone before you get to California. A rat deserting a sinking ship

Still supporting Bonleh?

I'm surprised you haven't become AccyChelsea yet.

Too soon?

[quote][p][bold]accylongside[/bold] wrote:
[quote][p][bold]Garylla[/bold] wrote:
I go back to California later today. Having seen Rovers concede 5 goals in 2 games but keep JR I go back being thankful we have the Venkys but wondering about GB's ability to get us promotion. We have the players but we don't have the tactics. Please sort it out before my next visit in November Gaz. COYB[/p][/quote]Rhodes will be gone before you get to California. A rat deserting a sinking ship[/p][/quote]Still supporting Bonleh?
I'm surprised you haven't become AccyChelsea yet.
Too soon?roverstid

accylongside wrote…

Garylla wrote…

I go back to California later today. Having seen Rovers concede 5 goals in 2 games but keep JR I go back being thankful we have the Venkys but wondering about GB's ability to get us promotion. We have the players but we don't have the tactics. Please sort it out before my next visit in November Gaz. COYB

Rhodes will be gone before you get to California. A rat deserting a sinking ship

Still supporting Bonleh?

I'm surprised you haven't become AccyChelsea yet.

Too soon?

Score: -1

Still a Wild Rover
4:03pm Sun 31 Aug 14

NealB wrote…

greenscreener wrote…

NealB wrote…

Honest to god...

We concede because we don't defend as a team, our forwards and midfielders make it an almost impossible task to keep teams out because they don't make enough fouls in the other half... Look at how many free kicks we gave away on the edge of our own box and today and against Bournemouth from letting teams play far too easily out of their own half when we should be boxing them in. We're lacking a Dickov type player who will chase down defenders and force mistakes for 90 minutes... Rhodes doesn't work hard enough and it's a bad move not to sell for 12 million when we're lacking depth and quality at full back and centre midfield. His goals didn't get us in the playoffs last season and wont get us in the playoffs this season.

Bowyer somehow doesn't see these issues and I find it unbelievable to be honest. It's all well and good signing good defenders but even good defenders at the top level are protected and teams defend as a team.

Rivalry aside, Burnley presented this method absolutely textbook today and how other managers (not just Bowyer) don't take note of this style of play I find absolutely astounding. This isn't just something Dyche has introduced, Pearson, Mackay and many other managers understand attacking and defending AS A TEAM will get you out of this league.

Bottom line, these teams who get promoted don't have more ability than us, they work harder as a team than us and personally I find that the hardest thing to stomach.

You really are barking up the wrong tree Neal.

I agree your general point about the whole team needing to defend better, but this is because our back line and particularly our midfield drop far too deep and allow the opposing midfield a clear run between the half way line and the last third.

However your solution, to say sell Jordan Rhodes, and that he doesn't work hard enough is errant nonsense.

The evidence so far this season, Rudys goal against Cardiff ? JR got the tackle in just outside their box dispossessed a defender and Gestede scores. JRs opener against Bournemouth ? He chased down a defender inside their penalty area, dispossessed him and stuck it through the keepers legs.

We are basically far too defensive, selling a 25 goal a season striker doesn't seem like the right way to fix that to me.

Sorry mate but you aren't watching the same team as I'm watching. The two examples you have given me happened very early in games, this is something that is important for 90 minutes... I'd rather have a Dickov type player who can nick one, win 1-0 and chase down for 90 minutes than someone who gets his goal(s), can't do the rest and end up conceding 2 or 3 every week. I'm not really saying Rhodes doesn't work hard what I'm saying is he's either not fit enough and quick enough to do this job or Bowyer plainly doesn't see it to enforce it... Probably both in my eyes. I watched Bournemouth take throwins in their corner flag and play out unchallenged and be on the edge of our own box within 10 seconds... Yes this is an issue that all the squad can take blame for but your first line of defence is attack... Rudy is sometimes just as guilty. The manager has to take blame for signing this type of player, Varney and Brown certainly aren't quick enough to do this job.

I'll get all the stick in the world for saying this but it's the truth... If our manager has any strength it's in the transfer market and had he been given at least half the money from the sale of Rhodes he would have made this squad of players a whole lot better equipped to get out of this division... After all, Evans, Cairney, Gestede and Conway cost less that 2 million pounds.

The venom that people spit at those that merely suggest and give good honest reasoning for selling Rhodes is astounding. The fact that you think what I've said is 'errant nonsense' clarifies to me that you, like our manager, can't see the qualities that a team needs to get out of this league.

Someone said 'Jordan Rhodes is a luxury we can't afford' and at 12 million pounds I think it's high time that (given the lack of depth in our squad) people start to realise it. The lad is a great finisher... Better than Nugent, Vardy, Ings and Vokes but they're playing in the premier league and the reasons for that are not complicated... In fact... They are very very simple.

Troll account

[quote][p][bold]NealB[/bold] wrote:
[quote][p][bold]greenscreener[/bold] wrote:
[quote][p][bold]NealB[/bold] wrote:
Honest to god...
We concede because we don't defend as a team, our forwards and midfielders make it an almost impossible task to keep teams out because they don't make enough fouls in the other half... Look at how many free kicks we gave away on the edge of our own box and today and against Bournemouth from letting teams play far too easily out of their own half when we should be boxing them in. We're lacking a Dickov type player who will chase down defenders and force mistakes for 90 minutes... Rhodes doesn't work hard enough and it's a bad move not to sell for 12 million when we're lacking depth and quality at full back and centre midfield. His goals didn't get us in the playoffs last season and wont get us in the playoffs this season.
Bowyer somehow doesn't see these issues and I find it unbelievable to be honest. It's all well and good signing good defenders but even good defenders at the top level are protected and teams defend as a team.
Rivalry aside, Burnley presented this method absolutely textbook today and how other managers (not just Bowyer) don't take note of this style of play I find absolutely astounding. This isn't just something Dyche has introduced, Pearson, Mackay and many other managers understand attacking and defending AS A TEAM will get you out of this league.
Bottom line, these teams who get promoted don't have more ability than us, they work harder as a team than us and personally I find that the hardest thing to stomach.[/p][/quote]You really are barking up the wrong tree Neal.
I agree your general point about the whole team needing to defend better, but this is because our back line and particularly our midfield drop far too deep and allow the opposing midfield a clear run between the half way line and the last third.
However your solution, to say sell Jordan Rhodes, and that he doesn't work hard enough is errant nonsense.
The evidence so far this season, Rudys goal against Cardiff ? JR got the tackle in just outside their box dispossessed a defender and Gestede scores. JRs opener against Bournemouth ? He chased down a defender inside their penalty area, dispossessed him and stuck it through the keepers legs.
We are basically far too defensive, selling a 25 goal a season striker doesn't seem like the right way to fix that to me.[/p][/quote]Sorry mate but you aren't watching the same team as I'm watching. The two examples you have given me happened very early in games, this is something that is important for 90 minutes... I'd rather have a Dickov type player who can nick one, win 1-0 and chase down for 90 minutes than someone who gets his goal(s), can't do the rest and end up conceding 2 or 3 every week. I'm not really saying Rhodes doesn't work hard what I'm saying is he's either not fit enough and quick enough to do this job or Bowyer plainly doesn't see it to enforce it... Probably both in my eyes. I watched Bournemouth take throwins in their corner flag and play out unchallenged and be on the edge of our own box within 10 seconds... Yes this is an issue that all the squad can take blame for but your first line of defence is attack... Rudy is sometimes just as guilty. The manager has to take blame for signing this type of player, Varney and Brown certainly aren't quick enough to do this job.
I'll get all the stick in the world for saying this but it's the truth... If our manager has any strength it's in the transfer market and had he been given at least half the money from the sale of Rhodes he would have made this squad of players a whole lot better equipped to get out of this division... After all, Evans, Cairney, Gestede and Conway cost less that 2 million pounds.
The venom that people spit at those that merely suggest and give good honest reasoning for selling Rhodes is astounding. The fact that you think what I've said is 'errant nonsense' clarifies to me that you, like our manager, can't see the qualities that a team needs to get out of this league.
Someone said 'Jordan Rhodes is a luxury we can't afford' and at 12 million pounds I think it's high time that (given the lack of depth in our squad) people start to realise it. The lad is a great finisher... Better than Nugent, Vardy, Ings and Vokes but they're playing in the premier league and the reasons for that are not complicated... In fact... They are very very simple.[/p][/quote]Troll accountStill a Wild Rover

NealB wrote…

greenscreener wrote…

NealB wrote…

Honest to god...

We concede because we don't defend as a team, our forwards and midfielders make it an almost impossible task to keep teams out because they don't make enough fouls in the other half... Look at how many free kicks we gave away on the edge of our own box and today and against Bournemouth from letting teams play far too easily out of their own half when we should be boxing them in. We're lacking a Dickov type player who will chase down defenders and force mistakes for 90 minutes... Rhodes doesn't work hard enough and it's a bad move not to sell for 12 million when we're lacking depth and quality at full back and centre midfield. His goals didn't get us in the playoffs last season and wont get us in the playoffs this season.

Bowyer somehow doesn't see these issues and I find it unbelievable to be honest. It's all well and good signing good defenders but even good defenders at the top level are protected and teams defend as a team.

Rivalry aside, Burnley presented this method absolutely textbook today and how other managers (not just Bowyer) don't take note of this style of play I find absolutely astounding. This isn't just something Dyche has introduced, Pearson, Mackay and many other managers understand attacking and defending AS A TEAM will get you out of this league.

Bottom line, these teams who get promoted don't have more ability than us, they work harder as a team than us and personally I find that the hardest thing to stomach.

You really are barking up the wrong tree Neal.

I agree your general point about the whole team needing to defend better, but this is because our back line and particularly our midfield drop far too deep and allow the opposing midfield a clear run between the half way line and the last third.

However your solution, to say sell Jordan Rhodes, and that he doesn't work hard enough is errant nonsense.

The evidence so far this season, Rudys goal against Cardiff ? JR got the tackle in just outside their box dispossessed a defender and Gestede scores. JRs opener against Bournemouth ? He chased down a defender inside their penalty area, dispossessed him and stuck it through the keepers legs.

We are basically far too defensive, selling a 25 goal a season striker doesn't seem like the right way to fix that to me.

Sorry mate but you aren't watching the same team as I'm watching. The two examples you have given me happened very early in games, this is something that is important for 90 minutes... I'd rather have a Dickov type player who can nick one, win 1-0 and chase down for 90 minutes than someone who gets his goal(s), can't do the rest and end up conceding 2 or 3 every week. I'm not really saying Rhodes doesn't work hard what I'm saying is he's either not fit enough and quick enough to do this job or Bowyer plainly doesn't see it to enforce it... Probably both in my eyes. I watched Bournemouth take throwins in their corner flag and play out unchallenged and be on the edge of our own box within 10 seconds... Yes this is an issue that all the squad can take blame for but your first line of defence is attack... Rudy is sometimes just as guilty. The manager has to take blame for signing this type of player, Varney and Brown certainly aren't quick enough to do this job.

I'll get all the stick in the world for saying this but it's the truth... If our manager has any strength it's in the transfer market and had he been given at least half the money from the sale of Rhodes he would have made this squad of players a whole lot better equipped to get out of this division... After all, Evans, Cairney, Gestede and Conway cost less that 2 million pounds.

The venom that people spit at those that merely suggest and give good honest reasoning for selling Rhodes is astounding. The fact that you think what I've said is 'errant nonsense' clarifies to me that you, like our manager, can't see the qualities that a team needs to get out of this league.

Someone said 'Jordan Rhodes is a luxury we can't afford' and at 12 million pounds I think it's high time that (given the lack of depth in our squad) people start to realise it. The lad is a great finisher... Better than Nugent, Vardy, Ings and Vokes but they're playing in the premier league and the reasons for that are not complicated... In fact... They are very very simple.

Troll account

Score: -1

noddy57
4:28pm Sun 31 Aug 14

like other like minded rovers fans who are knowledgeable when it comes to football and the Rovers in particular .This team is Gary Bowyers and as far as l can see we are static and going no-where fast and moreover l question the managers team set up and quality of it. We have been found out yet again away from home and this is not good enough.WE have to regain premiership status this season because if we don,t l fear the worst for our club. what l am saying in a nutshell is l don,t think Gary Bowyer can take this club anywhere apart from championship mediocrity. I think we may have to look at a proven manager of some note and they are short in supply and will not be cheap but if the owners want to recoup some of their losses they have to spend some more money and get in a top man or risk losing everything.

like other like minded rovers fans who are knowledgeable when it comes to football and the Rovers in particular .This team is Gary Bowyers and as far as l can see we are static and going no-where fast and moreover l question the managers team set up and quality of it. We have been found out yet again away from home and this is not good enough.WE have to regain premiership status this season because if we don,t l fear the worst for our club. what l am saying in a nutshell is l don,t think Gary Bowyer can take this club anywhere apart from championship mediocrity. I think we may have to look at a proven manager of some note and they are short in supply and will not be cheap but if the owners want to recoup some of their losses they have to spend some more money and get in a top man or risk losing everything.noddy57

like other like minded rovers fans who are knowledgeable when it comes to football and the Rovers in particular .This team is Gary Bowyers and as far as l can see we are static and going no-where fast and moreover l question the managers team set up and quality of it. We have been found out yet again away from home and this is not good enough.WE have to regain premiership status this season because if we don,t l fear the worst for our club. what l am saying in a nutshell is l don,t think Gary Bowyer can take this club anywhere apart from championship mediocrity. I think we may have to look at a proven manager of some note and they are short in supply and will not be cheap but if the owners want to recoup some of their losses they have to spend some more money and get in a top man or risk losing everything.

Score: 3

roverstid
4:33pm Sun 31 Aug 14

NealB wrote…

Honest to god...

We concede because we don't defend as a team, our forwards and midfielders make it an almost impossible task to keep teams out because they don't make enough fouls in the other half... Look at how many free kicks we gave away on the edge of our own box and today and against Bournemouth from letting teams play far too easily out of their own half when we should be boxing them in. We're lacking a Dickov type player who will chase down defenders and force mistakes for 90 minutes... Rhodes doesn't work hard enough and it's a bad move not to sell for 12 million when we're lacking depth and quality at full back and centre midfield. His goals didn't get us in the playoffs last season and wont get us in the playoffs this season.

Bowyer somehow doesn't see these issues and I find it unbelievable to be honest. It's all well and good signing good defenders but even good defenders at the top level are protected and teams defend as a team.

Rivalry aside, Burnley presented this method absolutely textbook today and how other managers (not just Bowyer) don't take note of this style of play I find absolutely astounding. This isn't just something Dyche has introduced, Pearson, Mackay and many other managers understand attacking and defending AS A TEAM will get you out of this league.

Bottom line, these teams who get promoted don't have more ability than us, they work harder as a team than us and personally I find that the hardest thing to stomach.

Absolutely. Top post and agree with you 100% - especially that last bit.

Its been asked before, but the other thing that is really worrying is how many injuries are picked up in training!

So we have a 'too nice team' that doesn't commit enough to get those much needed fouls you speak of, but gets injured consistently in training!

[quote][p][bold]NealB[/bold] wrote:
Honest to god...
We concede because we don't defend as a team, our forwards and midfielders make it an almost impossible task to keep teams out because they don't make enough fouls in the other half... Look at how many free kicks we gave away on the edge of our own box and today and against Bournemouth from letting teams play far too easily out of their own half when we should be boxing them in. We're lacking a Dickov type player who will chase down defenders and force mistakes for 90 minutes... Rhodes doesn't work hard enough and it's a bad move not to sell for 12 million when we're lacking depth and quality at full back and centre midfield. His goals didn't get us in the playoffs last season and wont get us in the playoffs this season.
Bowyer somehow doesn't see these issues and I find it unbelievable to be honest. It's all well and good signing good defenders but even good defenders at the top level are protected and teams defend as a team.
Rivalry aside, Burnley presented this method absolutely textbook today and how other managers (not just Bowyer) don't take note of this style of play I find absolutely astounding. This isn't just something Dyche has introduced, Pearson, Mackay and many other managers understand attacking and defending AS A TEAM will get you out of this league.
Bottom line, these teams who get promoted don't have more ability than us, they work harder as a team than us and personally I find that the hardest thing to stomach.[/p][/quote]Absolutely. Top post and agree with you 100% - especially that last bit.
Its been asked before, but the other thing that is really worrying is how many injuries are picked up in training!
So we have a 'too nice team' that doesn't commit enough to get those much needed fouls you speak of, but gets injured consistently in training!roverstid

NealB wrote…

Honest to god...

We concede because we don't defend as a team, our forwards and midfielders make it an almost impossible task to keep teams out because they don't make enough fouls in the other half... Look at how many free kicks we gave away on the edge of our own box and today and against Bournemouth from letting teams play far too easily out of their own half when we should be boxing them in. We're lacking a Dickov type player who will chase down defenders and force mistakes for 90 minutes... Rhodes doesn't work hard enough and it's a bad move not to sell for 12 million when we're lacking depth and quality at full back and centre midfield. His goals didn't get us in the playoffs last season and wont get us in the playoffs this season.

Bowyer somehow doesn't see these issues and I find it unbelievable to be honest. It's all well and good signing good defenders but even good defenders at the top level are protected and teams defend as a team.

Rivalry aside, Burnley presented this method absolutely textbook today and how other managers (not just Bowyer) don't take note of this style of play I find absolutely astounding. This isn't just something Dyche has introduced, Pearson, Mackay and many other managers understand attacking and defending AS A TEAM will get you out of this league.

Bottom line, these teams who get promoted don't have more ability than us, they work harder as a team than us and personally I find that the hardest thing to stomach.

Absolutely. Top post and agree with you 100% - especially that last bit.

Its been asked before, but the other thing that is really worrying is how many injuries are picked up in training!

So we have a 'too nice team' that doesn't commit enough to get those much needed fouls you speak of, but gets injured consistently in training!

Score: -3

A Darener
4:40pm Sun 31 Aug 14

As I have often said, all the best managers are in the stands. Unfortunately they don't buy the players, pick the team or plan the tactics. That is left to the professionals like GB. It is still early season, lots of bedding in to be done. Better we struggle early doors, than later in the season. Plenty of time to put right the faults. Give him a chance, he got it pretty spot on towards he end of last season. He will get it right soon. Don't panic! We need to maintain the off field stability he has brought to the club. Don't rock the boat. I am sure he will get it sorted.

As I have often said, all the best managers are in the stands. Unfortunately they don't buy the players, pick the team or plan the tactics. That is left to the professionals like GB. It is still early season, lots of bedding in to be done. Better we struggle early doors, than later in the season. Plenty of time to put right the faults. Give him a chance, he got it pretty spot on towards he end of last season. He will get it right soon. Don't panic! We need to maintain the off field stability he has brought to the club. Don't rock the boat. I am sure he will get it sorted.A Darener

As I have often said, all the best managers are in the stands. Unfortunately they don't buy the players, pick the team or plan the tactics. That is left to the professionals like GB. It is still early season, lots of bedding in to be done. Better we struggle early doors, than later in the season. Plenty of time to put right the faults. Give him a chance, he got it pretty spot on towards he end of last season. He will get it right soon. Don't panic! We need to maintain the off field stability he has brought to the club. Don't rock the boat. I am sure he will get it sorted.

Score: 1

Captain Dreckley
5:22pm Sun 31 Aug 14

Bring Souness in as director of football to mentor Bowyer and give some tactical know how and some managerial steel.

Bring Souness in as director of football to mentor Bowyer and give some tactical know how and some managerial steel.Captain Dreckley

Bring Souness in as director of football to mentor Bowyer and give some tactical know how and some managerial steel.

Score: -2

MatthewCA
5:30pm Sun 31 Aug 14

Good we need quality player in the back. prepare the players for the seasons top match's in this month. NEXT FOUR.

Next four game will prove where we are heading. :)))) Wigan,Derby ,Fulham , Watford

Good we need quality player in the back. prepare the players for the seasons top match's in this month. NEXT FOUR.
Next four game will prove where we are heading. :)))) Wigan,Derby ,Fulham , WatfordMatthewCA

Good we need quality player in the back. prepare the players for the seasons top match's in this month. NEXT FOUR.

Next four game will prove where we are heading. :)))) Wigan,Derby ,Fulham , Watford

Score: -1

owd nick
11:18pm Sun 31 Aug 14

A Darener wrote…

Don't know how much he learnt whilst at Everton but after yesterday's performance against Chelsea, Everton's defence have a lot to learn.

Watching that game yesterday I doubt if Everton had 22 players on the pitch they wouldn't have stood a chance, Chelsea, who gave the impression that they had hardly got out of 2nd gear were simply awesome.

If they keep this up the PL will be over with long before Easter.

[quote][p][bold]A Darener[/bold] wrote:
Don't know how much he learnt whilst at Everton but after yesterday's performance against Chelsea, Everton's defence have a lot to learn.[/p][/quote]Watching that game yesterday I doubt if Everton had 22 players on the pitch they wouldn't have stood a chance, Chelsea, who gave the impression that they had hardly got out of 2nd gear were simply awesome.
If they keep this up the PL will be over with long before Easter.owd nick

A Darener wrote…

Don't know how much he learnt whilst at Everton but after yesterday's performance against Chelsea, Everton's defence have a lot to learn.

Watching that game yesterday I doubt if Everton had 22 players on the pitch they wouldn't have stood a chance, Chelsea, who gave the impression that they had hardly got out of 2nd gear were simply awesome.

If they keep this up the PL will be over with long before Easter.

Score: 0

owd nick
9:00am Mon 1 Sep 14

Harwoodstblue wrote…

greenscreener wrote…

NealB wrote…

Honest to god...

We concede because we don't defend as a team, our forwards and midfielders make it an almost impossible task to keep teams out because they don't make enough fouls in the other half... Look at how many free kicks we gave away on the edge of our own box and today and against Bournemouth from letting teams play far too easily out of their own half when we should be boxing them in. We're lacking a Dickov type player who will chase down defenders and force mistakes for 90 minutes... Rhodes doesn't work hard enough and it's a bad move not to sell for 12 million when we're lacking depth and quality at full back and centre midfield. His goals didn't get us in the playoffs last season and wont get us in the playoffs this season.

Bowyer somehow doesn't see these issues and I find it unbelievable to be honest. It's all well and good signing good defenders but even good defenders at the top level are protected and teams defend as a team.

Rivalry aside, Burnley presented this method absolutely textbook today and how other managers (not just Bowyer) don't take note of this style of play I find absolutely astounding. This isn't just something Dyche has introduced, Pearson, Mackay and many other managers understand attacking and defending AS A TEAM will get you out of this league.

Bottom line, these teams who get promoted don't have more ability than us, they work harder as a team than us and personally I find that the hardest thing to stomach.

You really are barking up the wrong tree Neal.

I agree your general point about the whole team needing to defend better, but this is because our back line and particularly our midfield drop far too deep and allow the opposing midfield a clear run between the half way line and the last third.

However your solution, to say sell Jordan Rhodes, and that he doesn't work hard enough is errant nonsense.

The evidence so far this season, Rudys goal against Cardiff ? JR got the tackle in just outside their box dispossessed a defender and Gestede scores. JRs opener against Bournemouth ? He chased down a defender inside their penalty area, dispossessed him and stuck it through the keepers legs.

We are basically far too defensive, selling a 25 goal a season striker doesn't seem like the right way to fix that to me.

Agree with most of that GS but why does GB not see it ? Hate to say it but Burnley, as said above, attack and defend 'as a team , 100%'. They also have the guts to have a real go at teams, as they did in the first half yesterday. Bowyer on the other hand seems much more timid and cautious and should be getting much more out of this squad. I wasn't having a dig at Rhodes in particular in my previous post but if the whole front line put in some 'Dickov' type effort the defence wouldn't be under half as much pressure.

Cracking posts from all concerned, really good points made and discussed.

From my viewpoint in the stands that hole in front of the defence the GS refers to is the key factor, we need a Robbie Savage type who is busy and can play but takes no prisoners to fill it, give the defence half a chance to hold the line not to be forced back into the area time after time.

But GB can't see that....Why? Perhaps he should take a leaf out of Nigel Pearson's book and sit up in the stand for part of the match anyway.

Evans and Cairney can't fill that role, they are more attack minded, as are the majority of our midfield options, Lowe can do it but he is marooned at Right Back for now, that just leaves Williamson, who is apt to make mistakes as per Saturday.

With Gestede, King and Olsen out on Saturday we also lacked one key ingredient needed in this league...pace.

[quote][p][bold]Harwoodstblue[/bold] wrote:
[quote][p][bold]greenscreener[/bold] wrote:
[quote][p][bold]NealB[/bold] wrote:
Honest to god...
We concede because we don't defend as a team, our forwards and midfielders make it an almost impossible task to keep teams out because they don't make enough fouls in the other half... Look at how many free kicks we gave away on the edge of our own box and today and against Bournemouth from letting teams play far too easily out of their own half when we should be boxing them in. We're lacking a Dickov type player who will chase down defenders and force mistakes for 90 minutes... Rhodes doesn't work hard enough and it's a bad move not to sell for 12 million when we're lacking depth and quality at full back and centre midfield. His goals didn't get us in the playoffs last season and wont get us in the playoffs this season.
Bowyer somehow doesn't see these issues and I find it unbelievable to be honest. It's all well and good signing good defenders but even good defenders at the top level are protected and teams defend as a team.
Rivalry aside, Burnley presented this method absolutely textbook today and how other managers (not just Bowyer) don't take note of this style of play I find absolutely astounding. This isn't just something Dyche has introduced, Pearson, Mackay and many other managers understand attacking and defending AS A TEAM will get you out of this league.
Bottom line, these teams who get promoted don't have more ability than us, they work harder as a team than us and personally I find that the hardest thing to stomach.[/p][/quote]You really are barking up the wrong tree Neal.
I agree your general point about the whole team needing to defend better, but this is because our back line and particularly our midfield drop far too deep and allow the opposing midfield a clear run between the half way line and the last third.
However your solution, to say sell Jordan Rhodes, and that he doesn't work hard enough is errant nonsense.
The evidence so far this season, Rudys goal against Cardiff ? JR got the tackle in just outside their box dispossessed a defender and Gestede scores. JRs opener against Bournemouth ? He chased down a defender inside their penalty area, dispossessed him and stuck it through the keepers legs.
We are basically far too defensive, selling a 25 goal a season striker doesn't seem like the right way to fix that to me.[/p][/quote]Agree with most of that GS but why does GB not see it ? Hate to say it but Burnley, as said above, attack and defend 'as a team , 100%'. They also have the guts to have a real go at teams, as they did in the first half yesterday. Bowyer on the other hand seems much more timid and cautious and should be getting much more out of this squad. I wasn't having a dig at Rhodes in particular in my previous post but if the whole front line put in some 'Dickov' type effort the defence wouldn't be under half as much pressure.[/p][/quote]Cracking posts from all concerned, really good points made and discussed.
From my viewpoint in the stands that hole in front of the defence the GS refers to is the key factor, we need a Robbie Savage type who is busy and can play but takes no prisoners to fill it, give the defence half a chance to hold the line not to be forced back into the area time after time.
But GB can't see that....Why? Perhaps he should take a leaf out of Nigel Pearson's book and sit up in the stand for part of the match anyway.
Evans and Cairney can't fill that role, they are more attack minded, as are the majority of our midfield options, Lowe can do it but he is marooned at Right Back for now, that just leaves Williamson, who is apt to make mistakes as per Saturday.
With Gestede, King and Olsen out on Saturday we also lacked one key ingredient needed in this league...pace.owd nick

Harwoodstblue wrote…

greenscreener wrote…

NealB wrote…

Honest to god...

We concede because we don't defend as a team, our forwards and midfielders make it an almost impossible task to keep teams out because they don't make enough fouls in the other half... Look at how many free kicks we gave away on the edge of our own box and today and against Bournemouth from letting teams play far too easily out of their own half when we should be boxing them in. We're lacking a Dickov type player who will chase down defenders and force mistakes for 90 minutes... Rhodes doesn't work hard enough and it's a bad move not to sell for 12 million when we're lacking depth and quality at full back and centre midfield. His goals didn't get us in the playoffs last season and wont get us in the playoffs this season.

Bowyer somehow doesn't see these issues and I find it unbelievable to be honest. It's all well and good signing good defenders but even good defenders at the top level are protected and teams defend as a team.

Rivalry aside, Burnley presented this method absolutely textbook today and how other managers (not just Bowyer) don't take note of this style of play I find absolutely astounding. This isn't just something Dyche has introduced, Pearson, Mackay and many other managers understand attacking and defending AS A TEAM will get you out of this league.

Bottom line, these teams who get promoted don't have more ability than us, they work harder as a team than us and personally I find that the hardest thing to stomach.

You really are barking up the wrong tree Neal.

I agree your general point about the whole team needing to defend better, but this is because our back line and particularly our midfield drop far too deep and allow the opposing midfield a clear run between the half way line and the last third.

However your solution, to say sell Jordan Rhodes, and that he doesn't work hard enough is errant nonsense.

The evidence so far this season, Rudys goal against Cardiff ? JR got the tackle in just outside their box dispossessed a defender and Gestede scores. JRs opener against Bournemouth ? He chased down a defender inside their penalty area, dispossessed him and stuck it through the keepers legs.

We are basically far too defensive, selling a 25 goal a season striker doesn't seem like the right way to fix that to me.

Agree with most of that GS but why does GB not see it ? Hate to say it but Burnley, as said above, attack and defend 'as a team , 100%'. They also have the guts to have a real go at teams, as they did in the first half yesterday. Bowyer on the other hand seems much more timid and cautious and should be getting much more out of this squad. I wasn't having a dig at Rhodes in particular in my previous post but if the whole front line put in some 'Dickov' type effort the defence wouldn't be under half as much pressure.

Cracking posts from all concerned, really good points made and discussed.

From my viewpoint in the stands that hole in front of the defence the GS refers to is the key factor, we need a Robbie Savage type who is busy and can play but takes no prisoners to fill it, give the defence half a chance to hold the line not to be forced back into the area time after time.

But GB can't see that....Why? Perhaps he should take a leaf out of Nigel Pearson's book and sit up in the stand for part of the match anyway.

Evans and Cairney can't fill that role, they are more attack minded, as are the majority of our midfield options, Lowe can do it but he is marooned at Right Back for now, that just leaves Williamson, who is apt to make mistakes as per Saturday.

With Gestede, King and Olsen out on Saturday we also lacked one key ingredient needed in this league...pace.

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