1. The name Washin ryu means the style in harmony with the truth. Master Ochiai explained one day that meant that he is true to the traditional forms of the kata and he does not change them. He does not make up any katas!

2. If you did some research, you will see that he does a tremendous amount of charity work for the community! He is extremely generous with his time and money for the benefit of others. He does not run his school to get rich!

3. Master Ochiai teaches more than just kicking and punching. He teaches personal and character l development.

4. His training was very harsh and between him and his teacher. He trained harder than anyone else in the temple. That is why he is so good and was the reigning kata champion for 5 years in a row.
But he chooses not to talk about specifics of his training.

5. He left in 1962 after 17 years of continuous hard training. When other students were given one day off a year, he still trained! Even though he was one of the youngest students, his teacher selected him as his successor. He was, and still is, that good.

Steve

I didn't see any discussion on katas that were exclusively made up by him. He now runs several schools and does a lot for the community in general.
So here is what is suspect about the history:

B) Doesn't talk about his training in the temple on the grounds that it is sacred. - This tends to throw up a red flag in my book. For most Japanese, History and lineage is very important and very documented. For him not to discuss his training and details is very rare.

C) He left the temple in '62. He doesn't discuss how long he was training there. There is a 40 year gap between the time Shotokan was first introduced until he left the temple.

Thanks, but this much has already been established. What we would like to know is what temple? Where was the temple located? What type of training did he do there? These are the original red flag questions I have. Yes, I know Ochiai was a 5 time kata champion...with all due respect, big fucking deal. I have been 3 time national kata champion as well, so fucking what. We have a guy in our school who is a 5 time world champion, again, so fucking what. His accomplishment in the tournament circuit means squat. It has nothing to do with the history questions we are trying to answer here.

I'm happy he's a generous guy...but again, so what. He could walk on water and piss sacremental wine for all I care. I want to know about his trianing. I don't know your master, I'm sure he's a great guy, but honestly, I know a lot of great guys who are bullshit artists. So if you here to defend the intregrity of your instructor, then by all means, have some real facts to answer our questions with. If not, all you are doing is just setting yourself up to get into a pissing contest with other people around here.

Jeremy M. Talbott

Originally Posted by Phrost

"Bullshido isn't just a place to hang out when you're browsing the net. We really are trying to accomplish something fucking extraordinary here that nobody's ever had the balls to do before."

Originally Posted by D.Murray

"Which is better, to learn the truth, or to enjoy the illusion of being right when you are not?"

Originally Posted by hangooknamja88

My definition of Ki is our energy. it's rather hard to explain it in words. It's not some mystical type of energy like white people...

Lightweight, I am sorry if I came off as judgemental, but how do you expect me to react to someone who keeps saying F**K me and F**K Master Ochiai and tells me to kill myself. I cannot hold a reasonable discussion with someone like that and no matter what I say he will not change his mind about Master Ochiai, even though he has never met him. So I will simply ignore that from now on.
Talking about being judgemental, judging Master Ochiai by a couple of brown belts and one weak black belt(in his opinion) does not seem fair to me. Maybe if Kagekaze let me know his qualifications to judge others, I would be more receptive to his criticism.

Mr. Talbott,

You seem more reasonable to talk to. But how will it help if I gave you the name of the temple Master Ochiai trained at? I have never heard the name mentioned. What kind of training details would you need? He only talks about general details about how he teacher trained him, not about the temple. As you stated, if people really did some research on their own, I believe they would find that Master Ochiai is the real thing and not bulshido! And yes, I agree that being a 5 time kata champion by iteslf does not mean you are not bullshido. That was just one of his accomplishments. I am not sure what I could tell you that would convince you that he is real.
I do know that there is a new board of karate masters which includes Master Mikami and Master Ochiai was selected to be the head of the committee.
That also will probably not impress anyone, but it is a fact nonetheless.

You seem more reasonable to talk to. But how will it help if I gave you the name of the temple Master Ochiai trained at? I have never heard the name mentioned. What kind of training details would you need? He only talks about general details about how he teacher trained him, not about the temple. As you stated, if people really did some research on their own, I believe they would find that Master Ochiai is the real thing and not bulshido! And yes, I agree that being a 5 time kata champion by iteslf does not mean you are not bullshido. That was just one of his accomplishments. I am not sure what I could tell you that would convince you that he is real.
I do know that there is a new board of karate masters which includes Master Mikami and Master Ochiai was selected to be the head of the committee.
That also will probably not impress anyone, but it is a fact nonetheless.

Steve

For many years, many Asian masters played on the ignorance of others with the whole mystisism of the martial arts. Tales of practicing in secret or learning the hidden techniques or studying in some temple for many years. Their reason? Hyping the value of the snake oil that they are charging.

So why would we like to know the name of the temple that he trained at? Simple, it helps to verify his story. Temples keep records of those who lived there. So, if you could find out the name of the temple and where it was located, that would be a big help. Also, the type of temple it was would also be a big help. Again, he could be a great teacher, I don't know. I am not judging his qualities as a teacher, because I never trained under him. What I am trying to find out is if he padded his resume for the sake of making himself out to be more than he really is.

Jeremy M. Talbott

Originally Posted by Phrost

"Bullshido isn't just a place to hang out when you're browsing the net. We really are trying to accomplish something fucking extraordinary here that nobody's ever had the balls to do before."

Originally Posted by D.Murray

"Which is better, to learn the truth, or to enjoy the illusion of being right when you are not?"

Originally Posted by hangooknamja88

My definition of Ki is our energy. it's rather hard to explain it in words. It's not some mystical type of energy like white people...

I will see if I can find out and if he is willing to share that information. There may be reasons other than the ones you site for not wanting to divulge the name of the temple and after 60 years in Martial arts and being recognized around the world and by the Japanese Embassy as one of the top 12 masters in the US, he does not have to prove anything to anybody. I can assure you he is not selling snake oil, has no need to pad his resume and he is not in martial arts to get rich. He only charges the bare minimum monthly fee to get by and does not charge for testing. He is not like other dojos where you pay $3000 for the 3 year black belt plan. I believe he is one of the only or few schools that does not require a contract. You pay month by month. I am sure if you could meet him, you would quickly see that he is authentic.

I will see if I can find out and if he is willing to share that information. There may be reasons other than the ones you site for not wanting to divulge the name of the temple and after 60 years in Martial arts and being recognized around the world and by the Japanese Embassy as one of the top 12 masters in the US, he does not have to prove anything to anybody.

No. Considering the fact that Ochiai is registered as a Shotokan Instructor. Then dissapeared for 10 years, and claim so magic temple and won't give it name. BULLLLLLLSHIIIIIITTTT.

Originally Posted by Steveni

I can assure you he is not selling snake oil, has no need to pad his resume and he is not in martial arts to get rich. He only charges the bare minimum monthly fee to get by and does not charge for testing. He is not like other dojos where you pay $3000 for the 3 year black belt plan. I believe he is one of the only or few schools that does not require a contract. You pay month by month. I am sure if you could meet him, you would quickly see that he is authentic.

You understand Washin ryu Karate is like the bigest joke on the SUNY Campus. No-sparring - point sparing, bullshit forms, unrealistic defenses. When I visit Binghamton, I point and laugh at Washin Ryu.

BTW, I wish you would kill yourself. Just use the pointy end like this :seppuku:

Lightweight, I am sorry if I came off as judgemental, but how do you expect me to react to someone who keeps saying F**K me and F**K Master Ochiai and tells me to kill myself. I cannot hold a reasonable discussion with someone like that and no matter what I say he will not change his mind about Master Ochiai, even though he has never met him. So I will simply ignore that from now on.
Talking about being judgemental, judging Master Ochiai by a couple of brown belts and one weak black belt(in his opinion) does not seem fair to me. Maybe if Kagekaze let me know his qualifications to judge others, I would be more receptive to his criticism.

I don't give a **** if someone is judgemental.

Unless, of course, they bang on about "personal development" and how their "martial arts training" (LOL!) has made them into better people. Clearly not the case. How do I expect you to act when someone starts being abusive? With serenity, calmness and showing the respect someone else has failed to show you. After all your Master has taught you to be a better person- that's what you told me isn't it? If you don't, then your claims about Master Ochiai teaching you to be a better person are bullshit, as you are acting just like anyone else.
As for KK not changing his mind on the basis of anything you say to him- a) you give up way too easily and b) evidence of effective techiques being applied by Washin-Ryu students might do the trick. As for a few dirty words and insults being a deterrent to discussion for you, well that's just fucking pathetic. They are hammers and nails. Nothing more, nothing less.

As for KK's qualifications- well ok dude's a ninja (and if a tanto slides across my throat in the middle of the night, I'VE NO ONE TO BLAME BUT MYSELF:ninja7: )- but lets face it he seen the training and been to the school. I have read articles in Playboy. They are poorly written ****. I am not an english professer. I see no reason to doubt my opinion, nor that anyone be less receptive to it.

Good teachers don't let weak BBs teach on their name. They just don't.