I got off my lazy backside and decided to move beyond the forums and actually look into feminism a little more. Though I only delved as far as Wikipedia, basically equivalent to a doorstep. Still...rather insightful. I was originally going to pm Kylra these questions because some of you are just soooo hostile. But I figure it would be more useful out in the open. So here are my Wikipedia insighted questions.

According to Tilburg University women's studies chair Tineke M. Willemsen, "[i]t is hardly even possible to give a definition of feminism that every feminist will agree with."[1] Bronwyn Winter has criticized resistance to defining feminism for specialists and nonspecialists, a resistance "so widespread as to appear to be the dominant feminist theoretical position: a sort of 'non-position'."[2

Is this perhaps what Ashland refers to when he complains about there not being a clear cut goal? Or is his declaration more far fetched?

I was also going to ask about radical feminism and what not, but further delving led me to retract the original question. Instead, I`d like to ask if the feminists in these forums ever label themselves, or is it something that only comes up in the finer points of equality perceptions.

For example, if I am a feminist (not quite sure If i am or not quite yet) I think I'd fall into the Difference feminism group. *shrug*

I should find a debate club somewhere nearby(preferably in english).
Also Ash, sorry I keep referring to you in the third person. This comment is directed just as much to you as it is to everyone else._________________And lo, therefore was the shitstorm summoned from the Abysses of False Civility in which it had briefly hidden, and there was much torment and despair.

the bashing started right away because it was clear right from the beginning that he wanted an audience to tell him how wonderful he was. and if that's what you're fishing for, well, you're gonna have a bad time.

well, this is the internet after all, knock yourself out. as long as you don't expect that you'll ever get through to him like this

Joined: 27 May 2012Posts: 100Location: The Bedazzled Bit By the Buckle in the Bible Belt

Posted: Tue Jul 10, 2012 5:14 am Post subject: Re: (^^)

Tinrac wrote:

I got off my lazy backside and decided to move beyond the forums and actually look into feminism a little more. Though I only delved as far as Wikipedia, basically equivalent to a doorstep. Still...rather insightful. I was originally going to pm Kylra these questions because some of you are just soooo hostile. But I figure it would be more useful out in the open. So here are my Wikipedia insighted questions.

According to Tilburg University women's studies chair Tineke M. Willemsen, "[i]t is hardly even possible to give a definition of feminism that every feminist will agree with."[1] Bronwyn Winter has criticized resistance to defining feminism for specialists and nonspecialists, a resistance "so widespread as to appear to be the dominant feminist theoretical position: a sort of 'non-position'."[2

Is this perhaps what Ashland refers to when he complains about there not being a clear cut goal? Or is his declaration more far fetched?

I was also going to ask about radical feminism and what not, but further delving led me to retract the original question. Instead, I`d like to ask if the feminists in these forums ever label themselves, or is it something that only comes up in the finer points of equality perceptions.

For example, if I am a feminist (not quite sure If i am or not quite yet) I think I'd fall into the Difference feminism group. *shrug*

I should find a debate club somewhere nearby(preferably in english).
Also Ash, sorry I keep referring to you in the third person. This comment is directed just as much to you as it is to everyone else.

I'll just ask that you kindly refer to my sage posts. Better than a Wiki entry any day, and cheaper, too._________________Flow like honey, taste like vinegar.

I was thinking the same thing, ShadowCell. Like, Giendi, you should probably step back, son. This is obviously not the forum for you.

Looks like you both are right. But the fact stands: if "law of the jungle" is the rule of these forums, then they work by the laws of the patriarchy. Ironic.

Monkey McDermott wrote:

Who the fuck crowned you king turd of shit mountain fuckspigot?

Thanks for making my point.

Monkey McDermott wrote:

Second off, before rushing off to defend Ashland I'm going to ask if you've accessed his profile,

That may well be worth examining, but discussing the merits of his/her arguments would require the conversation to be beyond the clubbing each other level first. And staying there when the other side disagrees with yours.

If someone is throwing napalm in the same direction you are leaning, that does not make it any more right than if it was coming from the other side - a hysteric woman screaming "all men are assholes" does not further the feminist cause, actually, it hurts it. Religious fundies harm, nay, poison the Conservative Republican cause. Terrorists appropriate Islam's name. And so on.

One thing is clear in Tat's comics - Tolerance of the "other" is way more important than anything else.

-G

PS: Since you are all so fond of dialectic constructs, would you please stop using "the end justifies the means" as the backbone of so many arguments? Evidently most of you can figure out why that's wrong, since the tone of the comments seems to indicate unemployed political science majors converge on Sinfest Forums as a way to spend their X-Box breaks.

You've totally changed my outlook. I clearly understand that I need to engage knee jerk trolls whose sole existence on this forum was to log in complaining about the strips with a feminist bent.

I mean clearly it's important that I be a banner example of the proper reasonable pro-feminist poster. Especially when some random d-bag plops his entitled ass in and shits forth his uneducated, unreferenced bullshit all over the forum.

Giedi, you have obviously not examined other threads (including the official feminism one on the general discussion board) or you wouldn't be saying that these forum members resort to bashing first and always. Loads of people have given proper arguments, added sources to their statements (or don't) and some have even debated to a point where they reached an understanding.

Imagine if you will a debate house where the people in it have debated for a long time. They know how the other works, they know what they can expect and will build on that. They know that if someone is stepping out of line, they can address them on it or ignore them. Suddenly you run in screaming fire and brimstone, saying that some debaters are terrible and should stop being so terrible. Honestly, it will make you look pretty stupid, because you don't understand the 'culture' of the place but think you know from a quick observation._________________Home is where the bra isn't.

actually we run by whale law here. you will be dragged before the almighty whale emperor and forced to explain your heinous crimes. in whalese.

eeeoooooooooo OOOooeoeeeoeoeoeoeoOOooOO ooooOOOOoooo

Best. Posts. Ever.

You guys are my vote for most unlikely coupling._________________"Worse comes to worst, my people come first, but my tribe lives on every country on earth. Iíll do anything to protect them from hurt, the human race is what I serve." - Baba Brinkman

According to Tilburg University women's studies chair Tineke M. Willemsen, "[i]t is hardly even possible to give a definition of feminism that every feminist will agree with."[1] Bronwyn Winter has criticized resistance to defining feminism for specialists and nonspecialists, a resistance "so widespread as to appear to be the dominant feminist theoretical position: a sort of 'non-position'."[2]"

Is this perhaps what Ashland refers to when he complains about there not being a clear cut goal? Or is his declaration more far fetched?

The problem there is more in giving a "fully encompassing" definition.

Ashland believes women aren't really oppressed though. I'm not sure if you saw it from the Dudebro Factory thread, but he used the classic "feminism is victimizing women" dogwhistle to try to herd people to the status quo.

Quote:

I was also going to ask about radical feminism and what not, but further delving led me to retract the original question. Instead, I`d like to ask if the feminists in these forums ever label themselves, or is it something that only comes up in the finer points of equality perceptions.

Usually I don't but sometimes I'll use radical feminist. Radical feminism isn't all transphobic though. That's kind of a holdover from 40 years ago when practically nothing was known about transsexualism, and that still doesn't want to go away yet. It's being worked on though. Also a lot of the manhatey stuff is either overblown in severity by men, is a statement to get people to think about what men do to women, and/or is more like satire in Johnathan Swift's A Modest Proposal to sell the British babies to eat.

Quote:

For example, if I am a feminist (not quite sure If i am or not quite yet) I think I'd fall into the Difference feminism group. *shrug*

From a quick glance at the wikipedia article, that looks like MRAs for Women. Which means it's oppressive and thus anti-feminist. For one thing, it supports the gender binary, which is a key force enabling and perpetuating all the gender related problems we have today. It looks like more stuff that leads to "men are hopelessly aggressive and can't control themselves, women are docile and nuturing and neither can function apart from each other" type tripe used to keep people diminished, particularly women.

Quote:

I should find a debate club somewhere nearby(preferably in english).

Please don't or at least take the time to find one that isn't terrible. It's not too unlikely you or someone else will end up being asked to defend something like apartheid or slavery.