Re: [More on] TB: Germanica?

John Jones may take after us and sweep us off
Iris-photos and onto Iris-tak where this thread without question belongs.
It just didn't get its start there.

If I get bloom on the "tetraploid *germanica*" this
year on the one germinant a year more mature than the others I will post a photo
here.

I am really glad to hear Robert Pries say what he
did about the misfortunate selection of *germanica* as the type for the
genus. I remember L. F. Randolph's comments to this effect, but his
attempt to get reassignment to *aphylla* really missed the mark, I think.
*I. pallida* would have been a more useful choice. *I. aphylla* from the
photos I've seen from various wild populations shows an astonishing range of
variability, but so do many other bearded complexes, with or without species
status.

I understand that the type specimen for *I.
kashmirana* was collected from a ditch bank near one of the larger cities in SW
Afghanistan. That is hardly a "wild" location and requires human
intervention to arrive at that location I would think. Bearded iris do not
migrate by means of flowing water to my knowledge.

The *I. trojana* I had from Randolph had some
characteristics remarkably similar to Blue Rhythm, particularly in the pattern
of branching and to a lesser degree in blossom form, although Blue Rhythm was
significantly larger. It would not surprise me at all if at some future
date DNA analysis revealed parts of the anonymous ancestry of Blue Rhythm to
include significant input from this species.

Other early tetraploids the ancestry of
which were based primarily on diploids together with *mesopotamica,*
Amas, Ricardii or *cypriana* seem to have a different character, but resemble
one another quite a bit. I would suspect, if we had samples of some of
these early "species" we would find clonal identity among some of them and
certainly commonality of species among most--except *trojana* and
*kashmiriana.* The populations that had intergrading forms--could these be
by chance hybrid swarms?

The reasons I suspect *kashmiriana* to be distinct
from the others includes the suggestion by Keith Keppel that *kasmiriana* is the
origin of the "t" factor, as well as its geographic distance from
the other collected clones. I assume that the areas in general
proximity from the sites where these clones came have been searched
for native plants of bearded tetraploids? It is interesting, also, that a
44-chromosome of *kashmiriana* has been counted in addition to the 48. I
have a very vague memory of a count of 24 for the species as well. That
may not be an accurate memory but is back there in my rusty memory file
drawers.

The designation *I. amasia* has a certain grace the
"bearded" term does not, although esthetic appeal of a name is not considered
adequate for settling an uncertainty of nomenclature. Too bad. It is
a good name.