How I wish if Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings be upon hin) could return to reunite all Muslims into a great empire. He would conquer the entire world if he came back. In fact if Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings be upon him) was as active as he was in the latter half of his prophethood, he would have conquered the entire world. If only Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings be upon him) lived a decade more or two, the things that would happen!!

Consider the fact that he never got killed despite swords and assassination attempts coming from all angles. He was divinely protected.

At 4/12/2012 9:11:38 PM, Ahmed.M wrote:How I wish if Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings be upon hin) could return to reunite all Muslims into a great empire. He would conquer the entire world if he came back. In fact if Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings be upon him) was as active as he was in the latter half of his prophethood, he would have conquered the entire world. If only Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings be upon him) lived a decade more or two, the things that would happen!!

Consider the fact that he never got killed despite swords and assassination attempts coming from all angles. He was divinely protected.

My reply: I have no interest in having a quarrel with you. As a Muslim you have no choice but to view Muhammad as you do. My point is quite simple Muhammad would have no means to conquer the world. The existing powers, e.g. China, UK, USA, Russia, Israel, etc. would not sit still while he attempted to do as you perceive. He'd have to get his hands on world class weapons first, then a fighting force. You're not thinking Muhammad, all by himself would conquer the world? I doubt that you would go that far. All the same the logistics, materials and means to deliver punishing blows to nations around the world is more than one man can lay hold to and control. There would have to be forces outside of himself working to bring the impossible into possibility. I do not share your idea, I understand Mohammed being idealized however. That's what Muslims must do to maintain ideas about him that sometimes go farther than credibility can flow. Do not take this as a matter of disrespecting your thought. I am merely making a comment on the idealized view of Mohammed I don't buy.

At 4/12/2012 9:11:38 PM, Ahmed.M wrote:How I wish if Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings be upon hin) could return to reunite all Muslims into a great empire. He would conquer the entire world if he came back. In fact if Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings be upon him) was as active as he was in the latter half of his prophethood, he would have conquered the entire world. If only Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings be upon him) lived a decade more or two, the things that would happen!!

Consider the fact that he never got killed despite swords and assassination attempts coming from all angles. He was divinely protected.

It it true you concur that your vile Mohammed was let die by your Story book Allah before he could rape, plunder, murder any longer and NOT be permitted to conquer the world; unlike Story book jesus who I believe you claim went to be with Allah, your Allah conversely dumped Mohammed's rotting murderous, unworthy corpse in to a hole of dirt in the ground and didn't permit it in his intimate presence like your Story book jesus. LOL!

At 4/12/2012 9:11:38 PM, Ahmed.M wrote:How I wish if Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings be upon hin) could return to reunite all Muslims into a great empire. He would conquer the entire world if he came back. In fact if Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings be upon him) was as active as he was in the latter half of his prophethood, he would have conquered the entire world. If only Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings be upon him) lived a decade more or two, the things that would happen!!

Consider the fact that he never got killed despite swords and assassination attempts coming from all angles. He was divinely protected.

ALTER2EGO -to- AHMED.M:At least 17 attempts were made to assassinate Adolph Hitler, and none succeeded. According to your argument, Hitler was "divinely protected." Is that you point?

At 4/12/2012 9:01:08 PM, johnnyboy54 wrote:I would guess he would unite all Muslims in a unified religion. He kinda has a lot of pull in that religion.

^ I was gonna say this.

As it stands, Moslems know that their Mohammed would NOT accept any of the Sects that currently exist OR IF he did accept any one then ONLY one of them would be right now (which one?), and the rest deceivers and false teachers of Islam!

At 4/12/2012 9:01:08 PM, johnnyboy54 wrote:I would guess he would unite all Muslims in a unified religion. He kinda has a lot of pull in that religion.

^ I was gonna say this.

As it stands, Moslems know that their Mohammed would NOT accept any of the Sects that currently exist OR IF he did accept any one then ONLY one of them would be right now (which one?), and the rest deceivers and false teachers of Islam!

If Prophet Muhammad (Peace on Him) was to come, we would leave our 'sects' and join him.

On other hand, Prophet Muhammad (Peace on Him) has moved on from this world. We will meet him in heaven (God Willing).

Many Muslims do believe that Prophet Jesus (Peace on Him) will return.

The Holy Quran 29:19-20

See they not how Allah originates creation, then repeats it: truly that is easy for Allah.

Say: "Travel through the earth and see how Allah did originate creation; so will Allah produce a later creation: for Allah has power over all things.

At 4/12/2012 9:01:08 PM, johnnyboy54 wrote:I would guess he would unite all Muslims in a unified religion. He kinda has a lot of pull in that religion.

^ I was gonna say this.

As it stands, Moslems know that their Mohammed would NOT accept any of the Sects that currently exist OR IF he did accept any one then ONLY one of them would be right now (which one?), and the rest deceivers and false teachers of Islam!

If Prophet Muhammad (Peace on Him) was to come, we would leave our 'sects' and join him.

That's all I need to hear!

You confirm the Sect YOU currently belong to is NOT the Sect Mohammed would want and you would leave it to follow Mohammed's new whatever?

At 4/13/2012 2:01:15 AM, baggins wrote:On other hand, Prophet Muhammad (Peace on Him) has moved on from this world.

He's currently still rotting in a hole on earth isn't he?

At 4/13/2012 2:01:15 AM, baggins wrote:We will meet him in heaven (God Willing).

Apart from your preferred Story book, emotional pleas and vivid imagination, what actual legitimate evidence do you think you have?

Will Moslem men be screwing virgins there for eternity whilst their earthly wives watch on?

It is said that hate is actually very close to love. Because when you hate something, it shows that you consider the thing to be important enough.

All that you have said can be trivially answered. I am sure that if you are so inclined, you will be able to answer each one of them yourself. But what I cannot answer is the dislike of Islam underlying your whole post. In what way has Islam hurt you that you dislike it so much? If you don't want to discuss the reason that is OK. At least tell us that a reason exists.

The Holy Quran 29:19-20

See they not how Allah originates creation, then repeats it: truly that is easy for Allah.

Say: "Travel through the earth and see how Allah did originate creation; so will Allah produce a later creation: for Allah has power over all things.

It is said that hate is actually very close to love. Because when you hate something, it shows that you consider the thing to be important enough.

All that you have said can be trivially answered. I am sure that if you are so inclined, you will be able to answer each one of them yourself. But what I cannot answer is the dislike of Islam underlying your whole post. In what way has Islam hurt you that you dislike it so much? If you don't want to discuss the reason that is OK. At least tell us that a reason exists.

Further more: ALL your sects are fraudulent and ALL would be rejected should the impossible happen & Mohammed return. (cf. 006.159YUSUFALI: As for those who divide their religion and break up into sects, thou hast no part in them in the least: their affair is with Allah: He will in the end tell them the truth of all that they did.PICKTHAL: Lo! As for those who sunder their religion and become schismatics, no concern at all hast thou with them. Their case will go to Allah, Who then will tell them what they used to do.SHAKIR: Surely they who divided their religion into parts and became sects, you have no concern with them; their affair is only with Allah, then He will inform them of what they did.)

How wonderful for mankind to know his literal return will never occur!

Fortunately for humanity, his body rots in a hole on earth where it belongs and even your Qu'ran Story book states it was put there as it was not to be in Story book Allah's intimate presence where Story book jesus went!

Islam is just as bad as christianity whose Historical record is also a disgrace!

ALL religions have caused human misery and all their respective gods ALL belong on the scrap-heap of mankind!

It is said that hate is actually very close to love. Because when you hate something, it shows that you consider the thing to be important enough.

All that you have said can be trivially answered. I am sure that if you are so inclined, you will be able to answer each one of them yourself. But what I cannot answer is the dislike of Islam underlying your whole post. In what way has Islam hurt you that you dislike it so much? If you don't want to discuss the reason that is OK. At least tell us that a reason exists.

Further more: ALL your sects are fraudulent and ALL would be rejected should the impossible happen & Mohammed return. (cf. 006.159YUSUFALI: As for those who divide their religion and break up into sects, thou hast no part in them in the least: their affair is with Allah: He will in the end tell them the truth of all that they did.PICKTHAL: Lo! As for those who sunder their religion and become schismatics, no concern at all hast thou with them. Their case will go to Allah, Who then will tell them what they used to do.SHAKIR: Surely they who divided their religion into parts and became sects, you have no concern with them; their affair is only with Allah, then He will inform them of what they did.)

How wonderful for mankind to know his literal return will never occur!

Fortunately for humanity, his body rots in a hole on earth where it belongs and even your Qu'ran Story book states it was put there as it was not to be in Story book Allah's intimate presence where Story book jesus went!

Islam is just as bad as christianity whose Historical record is also a disgrace!

ALL religions have caused human misery and all their respective gods ALL belong on the scrap-heap of mankind!

You did not answer my question, did you?

I don't think you have any reason to dislike Islam. Had you got a valid reason you would have responded differently.

The only thing I can conclude is that you are deliberately behaving with a foul mouth and spouting what you yourself know to be lie. You have picked all this stuff from sources which you yourself know are biased. I don't know what is your objective. May be you just like the attention. Or you want to prevent others from learning about Islam.

All I will say is, you are talking about things you know nothing about. Stop for your own sake.

The Holy Quran 29:19-20

See they not how Allah originates creation, then repeats it: truly that is easy for Allah.

Say: "Travel through the earth and see how Allah did originate creation; so will Allah produce a later creation: for Allah has power over all things.

My reply: The items noted are to the discredit of an idealized view of Mohammed. For Muslims this weighs to the negative of hailing the memory of Mohammed's name. The reverence accorded to this man is not warranted if the allegations are true. I don't know how Muslims resolve this in their minds. I do not know what explanations they've presented in public debate on this matter. I do know that Elijah Muhammad was a philanderer. He had children out of wedlock, yet NOI members shower the memory of his name with Peace be upon him. Scripture declares there will be no peace for individuals who commit grievous sin without repentance. With both individuals I am of the opinion that Muslim's ignore the truth of their activity to keep the ideal alive that they were impeccable men. This may be in light of what's in view in Yeshua, the sinless one. Every ideal has to have a figure that embodies its claim. As far as I know Islam has not faced the demons that are associated with its founder's name. The bottom line is whether or not the allegations are true. From what I've read in the past I have to weigh on the side that takes issue with Mohammed's character. I have an open mind however to an Islamic response to this matter. It would be interesting to know what Muslims have to say about this issue.

Islam is just as bad as christianity whose Historical record is also a disgrace!

My reply: You cannot name an institution whose historical record doesn't have some intrigue associated. What men do under the mantle of a creed is not necessarily faithful to the creed. Individuals want to blame Christianity for what men do who associate with its name. The problem with that is matching what men do with the faith's treachings. Right away the matter becomes what men do who call themselves Christians than what scripture teaches. The distinction isn't made, when in fact it is most significant in telling a story in an accurate way. You have what men do mixed up with the creed they proclaim in their actions. People misrepresent one another in life. One of my best friends does it all the time. When he tells a story it's best to get the other sides account before you run with what he has to say.

People who misrepresent others are no different than those who misrepresent writings. Your thinking does not take into account what's common to the human condition, lies and deception. Religion is only one venue where you see lies and deception at work continually. These activities don't represent the creed they are associated with necessarily. To paint a broad stroke, alleging religion to be a blight on mankind without considering the conflict between what a man does and the creed he affirms leads to faulty reasoning. Your idea doesn't bear much merit when factors needing to taken into account in your assessment are missing.

My reply: The items noted are to the discredit of an idealized view of Mohammed. For Muslims this weighs to the negative of hailing the memory of Mohammed's name. The reverence accorded to this man is not warranted if the allegations are true. I don't know how Muslims resolve this in their minds. I do not know what explanations they've presented in public debate on this matter. I do know that Elijah Muhammad was a philanderer. He had children out of wedlock, yet NOI members shower the memory of his name with Peace be upon him. Scripture declares there will be no peace for individuals who commit grievous sin without repentance. With both individuals I am of the opinion that Muslim's ignore the truth of their activity to keep the ideal alive that they were impeccable men. This may be in light of what's in view in Yeshua, the sinless one. Every ideal has to have a figure that embodies its claim. As far as I know Islam has not faced the demons that are associated with its founder's name. The bottom line is whether or not the allegations are true. From what I've read in the past I have to weigh on the side that takes issue with Mohammed's character. I have an open mind however to an Islamic response to this matter. It would be interesting to know what Muslims have to say about this issue.

The allegations are not true. Life of Prophet Muhammad (Peace on Him) was an open book. People have recorded everything he did, everything he said and have systematically maintained records.

The allegations are so outrageous, that anyone who knows anything about Islam and Muslims immediately senses that they are totally out of character. The purpose of these allegations is to stop people and scare them from learning anything about Islam with an open mind. Problem is, once these allegations are made, they keep haunting anyone who is attracted by Islam or Muslims, but does not know much about it. What motivates people to utter these kind of lies is something I have not yet understood.

Islam is just as bad as christianity whose Historical record is also a disgrace!

My reply: You cannot name an institution whose historical record doesn't have some intrigue associated. What men do under the mantle of a creed is not necessarily faithful to the creed. Individuals want to blame Christianity for what men do who associate with its name. The problem with that is matching what men do with the faith's treachings. Right away the matter becomes what men do who call themselves Christians than what scripture teaches. The distinction isn't made, when in fact it is most significant in telling a story in an accurate way. You have what men do mixed up with the creed they proclaim in their actions. People misrepresent one another in life. One of my best friends does it all the time. When he tells a story it's best to get the other sides account before you run with what he has to say.

People who misrepresent others are no different than those who misrepresent writings. Your thinking does not take into account what's common to the human condition, lies and deception. Religion is only one venue where you see lies and deception at work continually. These activities don't represent the creed they are associated with necessarily. To paint a broad stroke, alleging religion to be a blight on mankind without considering the conflict between what a man does and the creed he affirms leads to faulty reasoning. Your idea doesn't bear much merit when factors needing to taken into account in your assessment are missing.

The Holy Quran 29:19-20

See they not how Allah originates creation, then repeats it: truly that is easy for Allah.

Say: "Travel through the earth and see how Allah did originate creation; so will Allah produce a later creation: for Allah has power over all things.

At 4/12/2012 7:33:48 PM, Mirza wrote:Sects evolved as a result of people misinterpreting his teachings. He'd join none.

Correct!

Hence Ahmad & Fatihah belong to Sects that Mohammed would reject!

Response: I always love it when a deluded non-muslim starts to troll the forum, singling out muslims who always destroy them in debate because they can't stomach the constant losses they suffer in debate with them. Amusing.

At 4/12/2012 7:33:48 PM, Mirza wrote:Sects evolved as a result of people misinterpreting his teachings. He'd join none.

Correct!

Hence Ahmad & Fatihah belong to Sects that Mohammed would reject!

Response: I always love it when a deluded non-muslim starts to troll the forum, singling out muslims who always destroy them in debate because they can't stomach the constant losses they suffer in debate with them. Amusing.

Keep dreaming Fatihah, one day you might wake up and smell the coffee that you are another victim of your vicious and violent Cult!

At 4/12/2012 7:33:48 PM, Mirza wrote:Sects evolved as a result of people misinterpreting his teachings. He'd join none.

Correct!

Hence Ahmad & Fatihah belong to Sects that Mohammed would reject!

Response: I always love it when a deluded non-muslim starts to troll the forum, singling out muslims who always destroy them in debate because they can't stomach the constant losses they suffer in debate with them. Amusing.

Keep dreaming Fatihah, one day you might wake up and smell the coffee that you are another victim of your vicious and violent Cult!

At 4/12/2012 7:33:48 PM, Mirza wrote:Sects evolved as a result of people misinterpreting his teachings. He'd join none.

Correct!

Hence Ahmad & Fatihah belong to Sects that Mohammed would reject!

Response: I always love it when a deluded non-muslim starts to troll the forum, singling out muslims who always destroy them in debate because they can't stomach the constant losses they suffer in debate with them. Amusing.

Keep dreaming Fatihah, one day you might wake up and smell the coffee that you are another victim of your vicious and violent Cult!

Next!

Response: Only in the eyes of the delusional.

Next!

That's what I said, one day you might stop being delusional and eventually ' wake up & smell the coffee! '.

Much much much much better luck next times if you wish to try your luck against the Historical facts again!

Your evidence contradicting the Historically recorded facts are where?

At 4/13/2012 2:03:41 PM, baggins wrote:Life of Prophet Muhammad (Peace on Him) was an open book.

History has shown that apart from your propaganda your Mohammed was only a $profit!

#people!: At 4/13/2012 2:03:41 PM, baggins wrote:

People have recorded everything he did,

Where is your evidence they were honest & trustworthy and didn't write down their beliefs intermingled with the hearsay testimony of the non-educated & illeterate Mohammed the sheep/goat herder who couldn't personally verify the writings these ' people ' wrote down were an accurate reflection of his testimony?

At 4/13/2012 2:03:41 PM, baggins wrote:everything he said and have systematically maintained records.

Yes you said ' by people,' that wrote down whatever they wished and ignorant Mohammed couldn't check for himself, LOL!

At 4/13/2012 2:03:41 PM, baggins wrote:The allegations are so outrageous,

The Truth often offends those like you that live in a dream world of lies and hearsay!

At 4/13/2012 2:03:41 PM, baggins wrote:that anyone who knows anything about Islam and Muslims immediately senses that they are totally out of character.

I know quite a bit about Islam and from what I have seen on TV and personally I am convinced Islam is a violent and terrible ideology!

At 4/13/2012 2:03:41 PM, baggins wrote:The purpose of these allegations is to stop people and scare them from learning anything about Islam with an open mind.

So far your legitimate evidence for Islam & Mohammed being a worthy belief system remains quite the opposite!

By the way, I don't single out Islam, ALL religions are false and based upon hearsay testimony at best and christianity itself has a disgraceful recorded History also and it is likewise worthy of only contempt!

At 4/13/2012 2:03:41 PM, baggins wrote:Problem is, once these allegations are made,

They are Historical recorded FACTS!

At 4/13/2012 2:03:41 PM, baggins wrote:they keep haunting anyone who is attracted by Islam or Muslims, but does not know much about it. What motivates people to utter these kind of lies is something I have not yet understood.

They aren't lies but Facts as recorded in History!

People should be given ' the Facts ' in order for them to decide what they then wish to do on an ' informed basis '.

As I said earlier -

Islam is just as bad as christianity whose Historical record is also a disgrace!

At 4/13/2012 2:03:41 PM, baggins wrote: People misrepresent one another in life.

Precisely confirming my previous point I raised earlier regarding your comment that ' people recorded what Mohammed had said?) (See above: #people!:)

Now you actually admit that people do misrepresent others and misrepresenting this Mohammed and what he ' allegedly said to them but likely didn't ' you now agree ' people ' can misrepresent others for their own personal corrupt motives!

At 4/13/2012 2:03:41 PM, baggins wrote:One of my best friends does it all the time. When he tells a story it's best to get the other sides account before you run with what he has to say.

You need better friends and the fact this is your ' best friend ' doesn't say much for you!

At 4/12/2012 7:13:02 PM, Composer wrote:If Mohammed returned now, what Sect of Islam would he join?

None, considering sects came about hundreds of years after his death. It was around the same time Bukhari and others started recording stuff.

That's probably correct based upon various Moslem responses and their Qu'ran in particular (See 006.159 shown below), hence Fatihah spouts her particular Sect's opinions, but sadly for Fatihah in particular, her Sect would be rejected by Mohammed should he ever return!

In fact therefore Fatihah & Ahmed. M and others here or elsewhere in particular are ' living a lie ' and their Mohammed would in fact disband their Sects in a flash, for they are ALL unworthy of Mohammed's membership or participation and exist in contradiction to their own Qu'ran, LOL!!

006.159 YUSUFALI: As for those who divide their religion and break up into sects, thou hast no part in them in the least: their affair is with Allah: He will in the end tell them the truth of all that they did.

PICKTHAL: Lo! As for those who sunder their religion and become schismatics, no concern at all hast thou with them. Their case will go to Allah, Who then will tell them what they used to do.

SHAKIR: Surely they who divided their religion into parts and became sects, you have no concern with them; their affair is only with Allah, then He will inform them of what they did.

At 4/12/2012 7:13:02 PM, Composer wrote:If Mohammed returned now, what Sect of Islam would he join?

None, considering sects came about hundreds of years after his death. It was around the same time Bukhari and others started recording stuff.

That's probably correct based upon various Moslem responses and their Qu'ran in particular (See 006.159 shown below), hence Fatihah spouts her particular Sect's opinions, but sadly for Fatihah in particular, her Sect would be rejected by Mohammed should he ever return!

In fact therefore Fatihah & Ahmed. M and others here or elsewhere in particular are ' living a lie ' and their Mohammed would in fact disband their Sects in a flash, for they are ALL unworthy of Mohammed's membership or participation and exist in contradiction to their own Qu'ran, LOL!!

006.159 YUSUFALI: As for those who divide their religion and break up into sects, thou hast no part in them in the least: their affair is with Allah: He will in the end tell them the truth of all that they did.

PICKTHAL: Lo! As for those who sunder their religion and become schismatics, no concern at all hast thou with them. Their case will go to Allah, Who then will tell them what they used to do.

SHAKIR: Surely they who divided their religion into parts and became sects, you have no concern with them; their affair is only with Allah, then He will inform them of what they did.

Next!

Muhammad would have followed only the Qur'an(there was no such thing as fabrications known as "hadith") so in reality if muslims want to follow his example that is what they should be doing. Of course old pervs and those who support stonings and such wouldn't like that though since all those things are contradictory and not mentioned...