by tremor77 on Wed Dec 15, 2010 3:57 pm ([msg=50491]see Surpised this isn't a topic here.. it is everywhere else[/msg])

With the news completely dominated by... Wikileaks, DDoS as a form of protest, and the debate over freedom of press vs. national security.. from where I'm sitting it looks like a lot of cards stacked up in a leaning house... and depending on the way things tumble it could really shape the future of the internet.....

and HTS is silent.

I suppose I'm glad actually, as I found a bit of refuge in not encountering this topic here... but still.. rather surprised that there wasn't a mile long forum topic on it... I suppose I'm missing out by not being on IRC all that much? Or are we all just apolitical now and don't really give a damn one way or the other...

For the record I still have a great personal distaste for Julian Assange. But I have to side with Wikileaks, as I've seen the freedom of information and right to operate online continually dwindle over the last several years...

On the other issue, I think all these DDoS protests are actually harmful to the cause (on either side) because it cheapens the chance for valid intellectual debate.

I agree with the points being made about freedom of speech. I agree that people should be allowed to access free information, and that people should be able to access it without restriction. I also believe, that if I weren't already feeling the effect of my own freedom of speech being somewhat stifled, that what you're about to read would sound less like a politician's answer, and more like the abject truth. And, I'm sure this will sound pretty weak to a lot of people, because I have a different perspective than most on the subject.

But see, I don't necessarily believe that the information that wikileaks obtained, falls under the category of "free" information. The documents were classified. And for me at least, that means I could go a lifetime without ever needing to see them. And I'm fairly certain that it would be fine for me to live my life without seeing these documents, because I've done it millions of times before, with millions of classified documents in the past, the majority of which, I didn't even know existed.

See, to me, this is all about the media, and the news. the Associated Press, and The American Free Press. And this is their war against the government, and not mine. I do agree with the statements about a police state like internet being our fate though, because we're approaching that even without this incident. But, with all the publicity this thing has received, you're right to say that we're approaching that fate much more quickly.

As far as DDoS in the name of freedom is concerned, you just can't stop anonymous from doing what they're gonna do, even if they know in advance that their "kill it with fire" attitude doesn't work for everything. Don't get me wrong, I have a lot of respect for them. I just feel that there are some things in life that require a more subtle touch than they are known for giving. And when you step into an already volatile situation, waving a hand cannon around, claiming that you're gonna set the world on fire, you're gonna look like a lunatic, if the place you walked into, looks more like the white house, and less like an old west saloon.

tremor77 wrote:[...]are we all just apolitical now and don't really give a damn one way or the other[?]

The hackers' activist mentality died out in the nineties, I think. I see this as a good thing since it was an ignorantly idealistic one to begin with. Most of the people here are probably just too busy with their own lives (work, school...), to be honest.

tremor77 wrote:For the record I still have a great personal distaste for Julian Assange.

Agreed. He's a douche.

tremor77 wrote:But I have to side with Wikileaks, as I've seen the freedom of information and right to operate online continually dwindle over the last several years...

What "Freedom of Information"? What "Right to Operate Online"? Neither of these have ever existed.

Information shouldn't be freely available because information can be dangerous. There's a shitload of fucking idiots in this country who think that politicians are here to help us. I already want their voting rights revoked. I certainly don't want them having access to everything that our government does. It's not unlike putting a revolver into the hands of a retarded adolescent. You're asking for something bad to happen.

As for the right to operate online, corporations don't have the right to grant you rights that were never legislated by Congress.

tremor77 wrote:On the other issue, I think all these DDoS protests are actually harmful to the cause (on either side) because it cheapens the chance for valid intellectual debate.

Quoted for fucking truth! If Anonymous wants to really instigate some constructive change, they should stop touching themselves, stop drooling over hentai, and stop giving each other high-fives like corn-shucking frat boys. They're the epitome of a more technical form of slacktivism.

I agree completely with you guys about Julian Assange, and although I mostly side with Wikileaks in this debate, I think that as an organization they are too arrogant and reckless. I hope that Openleaks will be more discrete.

Vulpine wrote:

tremor77 wrote:On the other issue, I think all these DDoS protests are actually harmful to the cause (on either side) because it cheapens the chance for valid intellectual debate.

<br><br>Quoted for fucking truth! If Anonymous wants to really instigate some constructive change, they should stop touching themselves, stop drooling over hentai, and stop giving each other high-fives like corn-shucking frat boys. They're the epitome of a more technical form of slacktivism.

Definitely, reminds me of the latest xkcd comic.

We did not invent the algorithm. The algorithm consistently finds Jesus. The algorithm killed Jeeves. The algorithm is banned in China. The algorithm is from Jersey. The algorithm constantly finds Jesus.This is not the algorithm. This is close.

While I agree that not all information should be totally free, especially when the military is involved, I believe constituents should have the right to see what diplomats are saying on their behalf. The only problem with this kind of total transparency, is that it might require them to sacrifice some of their effectiveness for fear of public outcry over Political Correctnes (God I hate that term).

It's a sticky issue, but regardless, if a document proves conspiracies, unlawfulness, and deceit (or other unfavorable actions) conducted by the Politicians who represent us as a people exists, it should be leaked, and people should know about it. These diplomatic cables aren't exactly mind-smashing subject matter, but still, it was interesting to see the outburst from politicians.

I also think that the media attention focused around Assange, his girlfriend(s), and Anonymous is misguided (at best). The BBC has at least had 10 headlines in the past week relating to these things, yet only one or two highlighting or analyzing the information released. They're focusing in on the wrong thing, whether or not that's on purpose is up to everyone's personal conspriacy radar to detect.

It's not who votes that counts, it's who counts the votesinsomaniacal.blog.com

I agree that information is powerful. Put in the wrong hands, it can destroy. In the right hands, it can bring change for the better.

Anonymous believes that DDOS is the answer to everything. That by downing websites, they are powerful. The sad fact is that 4chans best days are behind it. The problem with showing people the war videos and shit is giving them a bad point of view. I think that some people should not see the exposed information. War changes people. Also, certain things have to be done for a reason.

It's pretty awful, that someone just bringing in a CD labeled "lady gaga" and burned crap to it....I mean...Wow. We are so ahead of everything that literally that's all he had to do :l

SO in all honesty, I support wikileaks but I think it's funny that 4chan gets all hyped up when they DDOS a website. In all honest if HTS got some people together, we could make a much more concentrated effort, and actually pull something off.

Fascination wrote:In all honest if HTS got some people together, we could make a much more concentrated effort, and actually pull something off.

Potentially. But it's illegal, so that doesn't happen here. The 'espionage' charge that the Americans apparently have will be interesting reading.

In all honesty, most people understand that DDOSing major retail and financial sites makes them look like the kind of "hackers" that the everyday person fears, making it that much probably that the government would place more restrictions and decrease the freedom of the internet as much as they can.

It's not who votes that counts, it's who counts the votesinsomaniacal.blog.com