The United States is not facing bankruptcy, it is bankrupt.

As of today, the nation's true indebtedness (promises that have been made for spending obligations, less all the taxes the Treasury expects to collect) exceeds $222,000 Billion. The indebtedness to Gross Domestic Product ($16,100 Billion) is a staggering 13.8 to 1. The United States is not facing bankruptcy, it is bankrupt.

Quoting: davvi

As a student who is currently studying economics, i have no idea what you are talking about.

Our yearly deficit(expenditures-revenue) is about 1.3 trillion. I'm not quiet sure where u get this 222billion or the 16 billion.

As of today, the nation's true indebtedness (promises that have been made for spending obligations, less all the taxes the Treasury expects to collect) exceeds $222,000 Billion. The indebtedness to Gross Domestic Product ($16,100 Billion) is a staggering 13.8 to 1. The United States is not facing bankruptcy, it is bankrupt.

Quoting: davvi

As a student who is currently studying economics, i have no idea what you are talking about.

Our yearly deficit(expenditures-revenue) is about 1.3 trillion. I'm not quiet sure where u get this 222billion or the 16 billion.

Quoting: Royy

Quoting: s. d. butler

Whats the rofl for. I honestly have no idea what he is talking about. Our gdp is nowhere near 16 billion and our "yearly indebtedness" is nowhere near 222billion. Our interest on the debt is around 222billion a year thou lol.

As of today, the nation's true indebtedness (promises that have been made for spending obligations, less all the taxes the Treasury expects to collect) exceeds $222,000 Billion. The indebtedness to Gross Domestic Product ($16,100 Billion) is a staggering 13.8 to 1. The United States is not facing bankruptcy, it is bankrupt.

Quoting: davvi

As a student who is currently studying economics, i have no idea what you are talking about.

Our yearly deficit(expenditures-revenue) is about 1.3 trillion. I'm not quiet sure where u get this 222billion or the 16 billion.

its not 222trillion either lol. and our gdp last year was 15.1trillion not 16 trillion.

The yearly deficit is about 1.3 trillion, not 222 trillion lol.

I am translating "promises that have been made for spending obligations, less all the taxes the treasure expects to collect" to expenditures-revenue. This is the definition of the deficit and it is 1.3 trillion a year

As of today, the nation's true indebtedness (promises that have been made for spending obligations, less all the taxes the Treasury expects to collect) exceeds $222,000 Billion. The indebtedness to Gross Domestic Product ($16,100 Billion) is a staggering 13.8 to 1. The United States is not facing bankruptcy, it is bankrupt.

Quoting: davvi

As a student who is currently studying economics, i have no idea what you are talking about.

Our yearly deficit(expenditures-revenue) is about 1.3 trillion. I'm not quiet sure where u get this 222billion or the 16 billion.

Quoting: Royy

Quoting: s. d. butler

Whats the rofl for. I honestly have no idea what he is talking about. Our gdp is nowhere near 16 billion and our "yearly indebtedness" is nowhere near 222billion. Our interest on the debt is around 222billion a year thou lol.

If you want to look at it through an accountants eyes, the U.S. has been bankrupt for thirty years.(actually much longer) Our system of currency means nothing. We are a society who has been led to believe that prosperity is ours, when in fact it never was.

As of today, the nation's true indebtedness (promises that have been made for spending obligations, less all the taxes the Treasury expects to collect) exceeds $222,000 Billion. The indebtedness to Gross Domestic Product ($16,100 Billion) is a staggering 13.8 to 1. The United States is not facing bankruptcy, it is bankrupt.

Yet there is no sense of urgency or desire on the part of the governing class to level with the American people. This nation is living on the residue of the economic growth begun in the 1950's and accelerated in the 1980's. That tidal wave of prosperity has ebbed. The United States has entered into a death spiral of unrestrained spending, excessive taxation, printing near worthless money, and stagnant economic activity. Rather than be straightforward with the populace, the governing class is content to paper over the problem by the usual shell games of phony long-term spending cuts, more borrowing, and prevarications about the efficacy of raising taxes on "the rich."

The true nature of the GOP establishment's motivation has been exposed by their reaction to the Tea Party movement. This grassroots rebellion was the first manifestation of the awareness by a large portion of the American public of the nation's problems and ultimate consequences. Despite the overwhelming success of the Tea Party working within the Republican Party in the 2010 mid-term elections, nearly all of the Republican elites downplayed their success and fell-in with the mainstream media and the Democrats in their well-worn and gratuitous aspersions against these concerned and patriotic Americans. The Tea Party movement poses a threat to not only the accumulated power of the governing class but their livelihoods, thus the concerted effort to marginalize them by any vile or preposterous means possible.

The United States finds itself in a circumstance once thought unthinkable. An ill-educated and near morally bankrupt society increasingly made up of those dependent on government combined with a governing class whose primary interest is themselves. The nation cannot, therefore, make any meaningful course correction unless and until the people finally understand they have been lied to and conned by the current establishment. That will, in all likelihood, not occur until America faces imminent collapse and the citizenry turns on those who brought the nation to its knees.

this is the end paragraphs of a much longer article titled "The Governing Class and the Decline of America." there is nothing in this article that i can argue with. there many here who don't vote because they believe that both parties are the same.

i say there is a difference, but the difference is just personality and not outcome. i hate the people who come here and destroy this nation with their votes, but it occurs to me that those who vote for themselves do so at the behest of those who govern?

Quoting: davvi

I SAY IF SCIENTISTS/ENGINEERS AND AEROSPACE DOESN'T GIVE A RATS ASS ABOUT MATH WHY SHOULD ACCOUNTANTS?

If you want to look at it through an accountants eyes, the U.S. has been bankrupt for thirty years.(actually much longer) Our system of currency means nothing. We are a society who has been led to believe that prosperity is ours, when in fact it never was.

Quoting: JeepersCreepers

It really is all a fake. Just a propped up picture for all of us to have something to hold on to while the break away civilization rulers complete their plans. No such thing as money anymore or economics.

Good analysis in this thread. As I understand it, the rules of fiat money are simple. Money is created as credit. You want to buy a home. the bank creates that much money out of thin air. They give that to you. they also -- at the same time -- create the amount of money (9x's more) it will take you to pay back the interest on your loan. They dont give you this 9x time ammount. They keep it in the bank.

The bank then decides how to inject that 9x money into the system in a way that you can theoretically "earn" it and send it back to the bank to service your debt and eventually exhaust the principle.

The problem is in this decision making process that the bank goes through. They have to decide how difficult the scavanger hunt will be for you to get the 9x money and settle up your debt.

This why they think it is okay to create bubbles. its like making the scavenger hunt really easy and short. Problem is, many people do not take the easy route. they don't quit their jobs to flip houses, day trade tech stocks, become tax attorneys for corporations, etc.

This creates an imbalance. the people who need to go on the scavenger hunt to reclaim the money the bank created for THEIR OWN loan, get out competed by sharpers. The sharpers take too much of the 9x money that would not have even existed but for the original borrower.

The sharpers consider themselves entitled to your scavenger hunt money because they are sooooo much smarter than you. A little competition is fine, and motivates people to work hard. But the system of crony capitalism we have now is not fair. You are outclassed from the day you take the loan. The sharpers are debt free, tax free, professionals. With the best lawyers and politicians already in their pockets.

Not only are they better than you at your scavenger hunt, they are so bold as to sell you tools (taken out of your 1x money) to make you think you can compete with them for any part of your 9x money.

If they fail to get any of the money out in the hunt, no worries, they wait for the next loan to be originated for somebody else. remember the debt free, tax free, politicians in their pocket status. If you fail to get 100% of the money to service your loan. you lose your collateral and your credit score.

The system is not pure evil, but it sure caters to those who are, especially considering the regulators (referees) are typically incompetent.

When people can not get their 9x money back on their own, thats where government expenditures come in. Thats where the public debt and deficits are created. If you are out on the scavenger hunt, who teaches your kids? A teacher. You need roads to get to the places the bank hid its money, the government pays for that.

So if the government owes money just like our borrower, what type of scavenger hunt does the banks set up for them to repay their 9x money? Physical hunting and violence. use a gun to collect taxes from citizens. use a gun to invade other countries and take their stuff.

It's pretty easy to convince everyone you have money still when you have a magic money machine that has an infinite supply of 100 dollar bills at your disposal and the general populace can't even comprehend the basic math involved and is being told to "move along, go buy more stuff, it'll ALL be OK"

The truth is more than half the country would happily work for no paycheck at all if they had thier cable tv, internet, and unlimited supply of weed and hot pockets.

And a free porn subscription...

Quoting: vind21

what would happen if those who we owe started demanding re-payment? what would happen if the american dollar was not the world's currency? that money that they keep printing has no real value.

how many americans understand the concept?

why do we keep electing the same people to congress and expect a different outcome?

Quoting: davvi

'cause the definition of stupidity means doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result

"John Crudele of the New York Post: "I also wanted to mention a funny thing that happened yesterday: The Commerce Department made a substantial downward correction to its new home sales figure for September. That original estimate was released right before the election. (Let’s see how many more economic numbers get revised downward now that the Obama administration isn’t seeking votes.)"

New home sales is about the LEAST important number. It's perverse if we're still building new houses, while a large inventory of foreclosures and likely foreclosures still exists.

It was hard for me to understand the "recovery" of new house construction just before the election. This correction should happen automatically. The price of new houses should fall to the point that it's uneconomic to build them.

Anyway, house construction employs largely illegal immigrant labor, so its benefits come at a significant cost to the rest of the economy. While commercial construction, and building things like roads, bridges and hospitals, employs Americans. Maybe that's why Obama had said in a weird speech that the rest of the economy was "fine" but that we needed to stimulate just one industry: new house construction.

Maybe, just maybe, he was pulling a fast one on his base there, getting the illegals and other sketchy sorts who are the modern frame construction industry out to vote, while actually it was just a fudged number. So now, having voted, they're free to self-deport.

It is not just the U.S. that's broke it is the entire world. Everything has been done with DEBT and SMOKE and MIRRORS. It has all been an ILLUSION for a long time now. The question is WHY and why are they so desperately trying to hold it all together?

The answer is because they know what is coming and they know it will not matter. I believe they know a global cataclysm is in our future. It will change the scope of human existence and push us back to the dark ages. There is no other explanation for their behavior. They want as little disruption as possible to enable them to finish their preparations for what is to come.

They know by putting off fixing the system they will only make it far worse and yet they have chosen this path. They know what is coming and will hold this rotted, corrupt failed system together until the global cataclysm occurs. Then it will not matter.

"John Crudele of the New York Post: "I also wanted to mention a funny thing that happened yesterday: The Commerce Department made a substantial downward correction to its new home sales figure for September. That original estimate was released right before the election. (Let’s see how many more economic numbers get revised downward now that the Obama administration isn’t seeking votes.)"

Good analysis in this thread. As I understand it, the rules of fiat money are simple. Money is created as credit. You want to buy a home. the bank creates that much money out of thin air. They give that to you. they also -- at the same time -- create the amount of money (9x's more) it will take you to pay back the interest on your loan. They dont give you this 9x time ammount. They keep it in the bank.

The bank then decides how to inject that 9x money into the system in a way that you can theoretically "earn" it and send it back to the bank to service your debt and eventually exhaust the principle.

The problem is in this decision making process that the bank goes through. They have to decide how difficult the scavanger hunt will be for you to get the 9x money and settle up your debt.

This why they think it is okay to create bubbles. its like making the scavenger hunt really easy and short. Problem is, many people do not take the easy route. they don't quit their jobs to flip houses, day trade tech stocks, become tax attorneys for corporations, etc.

This creates an imbalance. the people who need to go on the scavenger hunt to reclaim the money the bank created for THEIR OWN loan, get out competed by sharpers. The sharpers take too much of the 9x money that would not have even existed but for the original borrower.

The sharpers consider themselves entitled to your scavenger hunt money because they are sooooo much smarter than you. A little competition is fine, and motivates people to work hard. But the system of crony capitalism we have now is not fair. You are outclassed from the day you take the loan. The sharpers are debt free, tax free, professionals. With the best lawyers and politicians already in their pockets.

Not only are they better than you at your scavenger hunt, they are so bold as to sell you tools (taken out of your 1x money) to make you think you can compete with them for any part of your 9x money.

If they fail to get any of the money out in the hunt, no worries, they wait for the next loan to be originated for somebody else. remember the debt free, tax free, politicians in their pocket status. If you fail to get 100% of the money to service your loan. you lose your collateral and your credit score.

The system is not pure evil, but it sure caters to those who are, especially considering the regulators (referees) are typically incompetent.

When people can not get their 9x money back on their own, thats where government expenditures come in. Thats where the public debt and deficits are created. If you are out on the scavenger hunt, who teaches your kids? A teacher. You need roads to get to the places the bank hid its money, the government pays for that.

So if the government owes money just like our borrower, what type of scavenger hunt does the banks set up for them to repay their 9x money? Physical hunting and violence. use a gun to collect taxes from citizens. use a gun to invade other countries and take their stuff.

Quoting: Anonymous Coward 27711841

This is probably the best and most simple explanation of the system ever. Do you mind if I copy and paste your post for use elsewhere?

The US has been bankrupt since 1929. The New Deal's name is not just some catchy moniker. The government literally dealt us as collateral (the Social Security Act) as we are all now on the hook for all debts incurred by this corporation (that's right, the U.S. is not a nation, it is a corporation). The Federal Reserve Bank (a cartel of PRIVATE bankers) takes our money and loans it to our government, expects us to pay the interest on those loans (the Federal income tax, another 'New Deal' derivative). We are all subsidiary's of the United States Corporation. If you take a look at all your legal documents from your credit cards, to contracts, to your driver's license, and so on...you will discover that your name is capitalized on all of them. This negates you as a person, individual or citizen...you are a subsidiary. This should piss off anyone whose ever put on uniform and fought for what they though was their nation. They fought for a corporation who views them as a product, and expects to profit from all of us. We are all on the hook for about a cool million as that's how much money was printed when your papers (birth certificate) were generated. Yes, they gambled that you'd become a consumer and put that million, and then some, back into the system, after they spent it.

Good analysis in this thread. As I understand it, the rules of fiat money are simple. Money is created as credit. You want to buy a home. the bank creates that much money out of thin air. They give that to you. they also -- at the same time -- create the amount of money (9x's more) it will take you to pay back the interest on your loan. They dont give you this 9x time ammount. They keep it in the bank.

The bank then decides how to inject that 9x money into the system in a way that you can theoretically "earn" it and send it back to the bank to service your debt and eventually exhaust the principle.

The problem is in this decision making process that the bank goes through. They have to decide how difficult the scavanger hunt will be for you to get the 9x money and settle up your debt.

This why they think it is okay to create bubbles. its like making the scavenger hunt really easy and short. Problem is, many people do not take the easy route. they don't quit their jobs to flip houses, day trade tech stocks, become tax attorneys for corporations, etc.

This creates an imbalance. the people who need to go on the scavenger hunt to reclaim the money the bank created for THEIR OWN loan, get out competed by sharpers. The sharpers take too much of the 9x money that would not have even existed but for the original borrower.

The sharpers consider themselves entitled to your scavenger hunt money because they are sooooo much smarter than you. A little competition is fine, and motivates people to work hard. But the system of crony capitalism we have now is not fair. You are outclassed from the day you take the loan. The sharpers are debt free, tax free, professionals. With the best lawyers and politicians already in their pockets.

Not only are they better than you at your scavenger hunt, they are so bold as to sell you tools (taken out of your 1x money) to make you think you can compete with them for any part of your 9x money.

If they fail to get any of the money out in the hunt, no worries, they wait for the next loan to be originated for somebody else. remember the debt free, tax free, politicians in their pocket status. If you fail to get 100% of the money to service your loan. you lose your collateral and your credit score.

The system is not pure evil, but it sure caters to those who are, especially considering the regulators (referees) are typically incompetent.

When people can not get their 9x money back on their own, thats where government expenditures come in. Thats where the public debt and deficits are created. If you are out on the scavenger hunt, who teaches your kids? A teacher. You need roads to get to the places the bank hid its money, the government pays for that.

So if the government owes money just like our borrower, what type of scavenger hunt does the banks set up for them to repay their 9x money? Physical hunting and violence. use a gun to collect taxes from citizens. use a gun to invade other countries and take their stuff.

Quoting: Anonymous Coward 27711841

This is a beautiful post, full of truth from beginning to end.

I would suggest one correction right at the beginning, so that shills cannot seize on this point to discredit the whole thing.

The fractional reserve relending multiplier (and Dodd-Frank mandated capital rules) are not necessarily equal to the repayment multiplier on a mortgage over its life. It's sort of an accident if they are close; if mortgages were 5 years rather than 30, they would not be close.

And interest rates aren't something that banks control, at least not now. They are bigger than just banks. If YOU don't go out and borrow money, you are depressing the interest rate. You have every right to do so. And so now all the Fed can do is to have a zero-interest rate policy. There will always be interest, because it's the option value of having money sooner: you can save it and have it later, or you can spend it now. Options have value. This is an economic fact that all the central banks could not change even if they wanted to. Even Islamic banks effectively charge interest, even though they pretend they don't (interest is illegal under Sharia law) and obscure it just enough that some mullahs (probably well compensated) issue the fatwa that it's not really interest.

So the scavenger hunt is required, not mainly because the bank sets it up, but because of that fundamental economic force. And given that this scavenger hunt will be going on anyway, banks go along for the ride by mandating that you use their currency, and via multiple relending they make it a system that can expand or contract to fit the economy, thus keeping themselves entrenched as the bankers and their money entrenched.

is anyone else as annoyed as i am watching these elected theives in washington dc haggling over OUR money? does anyone else feel that we have entered into a system where we are taxed without any representation? what voice do we have over these decisions? none.

healthcare was the final nail in our freedoms coffin. now this government will decide who lives and who dies as they have decided who pulls the cart and who rides in it.

already there have been "studies" reporting that "mammograms are not really all that helpful detecting cancer" and PSA tests may not be necessary, either?

why do you suppose that suddenly these tests may not be that important any longer? i am guessing to save the government money certainly not to save lives.

thanks everyone for the great comments and for the ummm....person who gave me "red karma" for not being educated in economics i say, duh! i have never claimed to be.

A Jewish mother dreams that her son will grow up to be a doctor or, if retarded, a lawyer." --Jackie Mason

" I'm Jewish. I don't work out. If God had wanted us to bend over, He would have put diamonds on the floor." -- Joan Rivers