The discovery of the text doesn't mean these events happened, but rather that some people living at the time appear to have believed in them, said Roelof van den Broek, of Utrecht University in the Netherlands

CapeFearCadaver:The discovery of the text doesn't mean these events happened, but rather that some people living at the time appear to have believed in them, said Roelof van den Broek, of Utrecht University in the Netherlands

So, kind of like the other texts out there?

No, of course not. Thosetexts are absolutely true and the Word of God.

CapeFearCadaver:The discovery of the text doesn't mean these events happened, but rather that some people living at the time appear to have believed in them, said Roelof van den Broek, of Utrecht University in the Netherlands

So, kind of like the other texts out there?

dammit.

Was going with: So like the rest of the Biblical texts? But yours is fine...

possibility one: Jesus was a trickster god, or maybe a trickster god created christianity as a joke that later got outta hand.

possibility two: 'Jesus' was the user name on the account. the disciples created 'Jesus' as a persona. they made up a costume, perfected the stage act and then swapped identities around whenever they went into a big town. But things get too big too fast, and Judas and Peter figure they gotta find a way to calm that shiat down before they ALL end up getting stoned in the town square. so they get the dumbest, most trusting guy in the pile to assume the persona of Jesus telling him that hey, it's cool...one more big score and they'll all blow town. the fix is in, they'll get him out of it before he goes down for good. He just has to play the role and Pilate will rough him up, let him go. things are going great until the crowd goes nuts. Pilate took the bribe but to keep the crowd from going all stabby he's got no choice - he HAS to sell 'Jesus' down the river. So this guy ends up playing the role of his life: the whole deal....whipping, crucifixion, torture...the whole bit. Judas and Peter are appalled, this wasn't part of the plan but they're in too deep. they hang around for a bit, not knowing what to do next. after 'Jesus' is dead, they figure they'd better go get the body because with all this attention someone might go dig up 'Jesus' and see if descriptions match. if someone figures out 'Jesus' is just an actor playing a role, they'll ALL go down in flames. they get Mary and the girls to make up a crazy story about angels, haul the body out of town in the dead of night, and bury it in an unmarked grave out in the desert. then they spend the next 50 years playing up the cult from behind the scenes, Peter lets it go to his head and Judas gets a serious case of the guilts and either hangs himself or the other disciples off him and make it look like a suicide.

Weaver95:possibility one: Jesus was a trickster god, or maybe a trickster god created christianity as a joke that later got outta hand.

possibility two: 'Jesus' was the user name on the account. the disciples created 'Jesus' as a persona. they made up a costume, perfected the stage act and then swapped identities around whenever they went into a big town. But things get too big too fast, and Judas and Peter figure they gotta find a way to calm that shiat down before they ALL end up getting stoned in the town square. so they get the dumbest, most trusting guy in the pile to assume the persona of Jesus telling him that hey, it's cool...one more big score and they'll all blow town. the fix is in, they'll get him out of it before he goes down for good. He just has to play the role and Pilate will rough him up, let him go. things are going great until the crowd goes nuts. Pilate took the bribe but to keep the crowd from going all stabby he's got no choice - he HAS to sell 'Jesus' down the river. So this guy ends up playing the role of his life: the whole deal....whipping, crucifixion, torture...the whole bit. Judas and Peter are appalled, this wasn't part of the plan but they're in too deep. they hang around for a bit, not knowing what to do next. after 'Jesus' is dead, they figure they'd better go get the body because with all this attention someone might go dig up 'Jesus' and see if descriptions match. if someone figures out 'Jesus' is just an actor playing a role, they'll ALL go down in flames. they get Mary and the girls to make up a crazy story about angels, haul the body out of town in the dead of night, and bury it in an unmarked grave out in the desert. then they spend the next 50 years playing up the cult from behind the scenes, Peter lets it go to his head and Judas gets a serious case of the guilts and either hangs himself or the other disciples off him and make it look like a suicide.

And the second option explains why they killed someone when they didn't give enough money.

The discovery of the text doesn't mean these events happened, but rather that some people living at the time appear to have believed in them, saidRoelof van den Broek, of Utrecht University in the Netherlands, who published the translation in the book "Pseudo-Cyril of Jerusalem on the Life and the"(Brill, 2013).

Well, no...of course not. You're not going to just automatically believe a bunch of wildly implausible ancient text is TRUE. That would be crazy...

At the Nicean Council the Coptics and Aryans were basically shouted down by the other sects (probably to curry favor with Rome) and this is when the story of Jesus took on supernatural characteristics. Until then then the majority of The Jesus Movement considered Jesus a holy man, but a man nonetheless.

There we tons of different different sins on Jesus before all the different factions murdered the shiat out of each other. That aint new.A novel branch is interesting, but why would people get bent out of shape.

Weaver95:possibility one: Jesus was a trickster god, or maybe a trickster god created christianity as a joke that later got outta hand.

possibility two: 'Jesus' was the user name on the account. the disciples created 'Jesus' as a persona. they made up a costume, perfected the stage act and then swapped identities around whenever they went into a big town. But things get too big too fast, and Judas and Peter figure they gotta find a way to calm that shiat down before they ALL end up getting stoned in the town square. so they get the dumbest, most trusting guy in the pile to assume the persona of Jesus telling him that hey, it's cool...one more big score and they'll all blow town. the fix is in, they'll get him out of it before he goes down for good. He just has to play the role and Pilate will rough him up, let him go. things are going great until the crowd goes nuts. Pilate took the bribe but to keep the crowd from going all stabby he's got no choice - he HAS to sell 'Jesus' down the river. So this guy ends up playing the role of his life: the whole deal....whipping, crucifixion, torture...the whole bit. Judas and Peter are appalled, this wasn't part of the plan but they're in too deep. they hang around for a bit, not knowing what to do next. after 'Jesus' is dead, they figure they'd better go get the body because with all this attention someone might go dig up 'Jesus' and see if descriptions match. if someone figures out 'Jesus' is just an actor playing a role, they'll ALL go down in flames. they get Mary and the girls to make up a crazy story about angels, haul the body out of town in the dead of night, and bury it in an unmarked grave out in the desert. then they spend the next 50 years playing up the cult from behind the scenes, Peter lets it go to his head and Judas gets a serious case of the guilts and either hangs himself or the other disciples off him and make it look like a suicide.

I like option 2. Perhaps not quite as sinister, some people just want to be the thing people believe in. They don't always care about money, there's quite a sense of power that goes with being that thing. Doesn't mean that not a one of them was that sinister.

Subby...since Jesus was part of the Holy Trinity before he was born in Bethlehem, he was already an "an omnipotent omniscient immortal" and shape shifting would have defeated the purpose of him coming here to live as a man among men.

Weaver95:possibility one: Jesus was a trickster god, or maybe a trickster god created christianity as a joke that later got outta hand.

possibility two: 'Jesus' was the user name on the account. the disciples created 'Jesus' as a persona. they made up a costume, perfected the stage act and then swapped identities around whenever they went into a big town.

The Gospels in the New Testament were written closer to 1,900, to 2,000 years ago - still within the lifetimes of some of the people mentioned in them. This manuscript would have been written around 700-900 AD, long after the events took place and centuries after the deaths anybody who was around then and could dispute its veracity.

Weaver95:possibility one: Jesus was a trickster god, or maybe a trickster god created christianity as a joke that later got outta hand.

possibility two: 'Jesus' was the user name on the account. the disciples created 'Jesus' as a persona. they made up a costume, perfected the stage act and then swapped identities around whenever they went into a big town. But things get too big too fast, and Judas and Peter figure they gotta find a way to calm that shiat down before they ALL end up getting stoned in the town square. so they get the dumbest, most trusting guy in the pile to assume the persona of Jesus telling him that hey, it's cool...one more big score and they'll all blow town. the fix is in, they'll get him out of it before he goes down for good. He just has to play the role and Pilate will rough him up, let him go. things are going great until the crowd goes nuts. Pilate took the bribe but to keep the crowd from going all stabby he's got no choice - he HAS to sell 'Jesus' down the river. So this guy ends up playing the role of his life: the whole deal....whipping, crucifixion, torture...the whole bit. Judas and Peter are appalled, this wasn't part of the plan but they're in too deep. they hang around for a bit, not knowing what to do next. after 'Jesus' is dead, they figure they'd better go get the body because with all this attention someone might go dig up 'Jesus' and see if descriptions match. if someone figures out 'Jesus' is just an actor playing a role, they'll ALL go down in flames. they get Mary and the girls to make up a crazy story about angels, haul the body out of town in the dead of night, and bury it in an unmarked grave out in the desert. then they spend the next 50 years playing up the cult from behind the scenes, Peter lets it go to his head and Judas gets a serious case of the guilts and either hangs himself or the other disciples off him and make it look like a suicide.

I'm on board with option #2. And I can see that done up as a screenplay. My only question is, who'd direct it?

AverageAmericanGuy:The author should have changed the character names and made it a lot sexier and sold hundreds of thousands of copies to lonely, horny housewives wishing for the pleasures of a shapeshifting lover.

In the unlikely event that I should ever attempt to earn a living as a professional writer, would you be interested in becoming my editor? I (sometimes) like the way you think.

PreMortem:Weaver95: possibility one: Jesus was a trickster god, or maybe a trickster god created christianity as a joke that later got outta hand.

possibility two: 'Jesus' was the user name on the account. the disciples created 'Jesus' as a persona. they made up a costume, perfected the stage act and then swapped identities around whenever they went into a big town.

spentmiles:"Pilate and his wife both have visions that night that show an eagle (representing Jesus) being killed."

I knew Jesus was a'merican! fark yeah!

The shape-shifter part actually answers another long-standing riddle...namely, how a blue-eyed, flaxen haired, square-jawed, red blooded American white man was able to blend in with a bunch of dirty Arabian looking people. He just shape-shifted to look like one of them so he could go undercover.

CapeFearCadaver:The discovery of the text doesn't mean these events happened, but rather that some people living at the time appear to have believed in them, said Roelof van den Broek, of Utrecht University in the Netherlands

Theaetetus:CapeFearCadaver: The discovery of the text doesn't mean these events happened, but rather that some people living at the time appear to have believed in them, said Roelof van den Broek, of Utrecht University in the Netherlands

So, kind of like the other texts out there?

No, of course not. Thosetexts are absolutely true and the Word of God.

New text is discovered. Does it contradict the current version of biblical teachings?

Yes - It's heretic, and has no value other than a historical curiousity.No - This confirms that the bible is true! Glory, glory hallelujah!

FTA:"Then the Jews said to Judas: How shall we arrest him [Jesus], for he does not have a single shape but his appearance changes. Sometimes he is ruddy, sometimes he is white, sometimes he is red, sometimes he is wheat coloured, sometimes he is pallid like ascetics, sometimes he is a youth, sometimes an old man ..."

Weaver95:possibility one: Jesus was a trickster god, or maybe a trickster god created christianity as a joke that later got outta hand.

possibility two: 'Jesus' was the user name on the account. the disciples created 'Jesus' as a persona. they made up a costume, perfected the stage act and then swapped identities around whenever they went into a big town. But things get too big too fast, and Judas and Peter figure they gotta find a way to calm that shiat down before they ALL end up getting stoned in the town square. so they get the dumbest, most trusting guy in the pile to assume the persona of Jesus telling him that hey, it's cool...one more big score and they'll all blow town. the fix is in, they'll get him out of it before he goes down for good. He just has to play the role and Pilate will rough him up, let him go. things are going great until the crowd goes nuts. Pilate took the bribe but to keep the crowd from going all stabby he's got no choice - he HAS to sell 'Jesus' down the river. So this guy ends up playing the role of his life: the whole deal....whipping, crucifixion, torture...the whole bit. Judas and Peter are appalled, this wasn't part of the plan but they're in too deep. they hang around for a bit, not knowing what to do next. after 'Jesus' is dead, they figure they'd better go get the body because with all this attention someone might go dig up 'Jesus' and see if descriptions match. if someone figures out 'Jesus' is just an actor playing a role, they'll ALL go down in flames. they get Mary and the girls to make up a crazy story about angels, haul the body out of town in the dead of night, and bury it in an unmarked grave out in the desert. then they spend the next 50 years playing up the cult from behind the scenes, Peter lets it go to his head and Judas gets a serious case of the guilts and either hangs himself or the other disciples off him and make it look like a suicide.

you know, being raised Roman Catholic I was raised more on the jist of the Bible rather than its actual text, but this passage leapt screaming out at me when I read it the other day:

Mark 6:Jesus left there and went to his hometown, accompanied by his disciples. 2When the Sabbath came, he began to teach in the synagogue, and many who heard him were amazed."Where did this man get these things?" they asked. "What's this wisdom that has been given him? What are these remarkable miracles he is performing? 3Isn't this the carpenter? Isn't this Mary's son and the brother of James, Joseph, Judas and Simon? Aren't his sisters here with us?" And they took offense at him.

Having read that I find it utterly remarkable tht in the 2,000 year history of Christian tradtion, that nobody seems to have ever written a gospel that suggested that Judas Iscariot, the betrayer of Jesus, was one and the same as Judas, Jesus' kid brother. I mean the dynamic of that relationship would make such a compelling psychological drama, it's strange no sect or cult ever siezed on it. and Jesus had SISTERS? Can you imagine what dating one of them must have been like?

(yeah I know the RC church's official line is that he was an only child and his Momma somehow remained a virgin even after having it, but that's so pants-on-head stupid that like Most Catholics I just point and laugh when someone brings that up)

Magorn:Having read that I find it utterly remarkable tht in the 2,000 year history of Christian tradtion, that nobody seems to have ever written a gospel that suggested that Judas Iscariot, the betrayer of Jesus, was one and the same as Judas, Jesus' kid brother.

I'm not certain, but I don't think it's the same Judas, that's why they differentiate him by calling him Judas Iscariot. I do know that Jesus' brother James is not the apostle James.