18 comments:

I actually found myself feeling sorry for ol' Bob a few days ago. It must be hard to be "The Voice For A Generation" of numbskulls. I mostly catch him nowadays, repeating the idiotic questions they ask him, like this one. My favorite:

Of course, he cribbed like crazy. But, you don't think he innovated, musically and lyrically?

I don't mind cribbing - it's all good with me as long as the results shine - but I never thought he "innovated, musically and lyrically." I listen to too much Jazz to think that. Bob Dylan couldn't hold a candle to even the Jazz artists of his day - not to mention those who came before him.

Based on your past comments about music and production, I would like to see your thoughts on this.

Bob Dylan's entire career didn't have as profound an impact on music, or culture, as the first listens to either a Louis Armstrong or Charlie Parker solo. Everything changed after them.

"Bob Dylan's entire career didn't have as profound an impact on music, or culture, as the first listens to either a Louis Armstrong or Charlie Parker solo. Everything changed after them.

There'd simply be no Rock 'N' Roll without Jazz,...."

I agree with all of this, and lately have been listening to Armstrong more and more.

I do however think Dylan meshed genres such as gospel, blues, folk, and the emerging rock scene in ways that in a lot of instances, very much shone musically. And as far as lyrics go, they are not all gems, but when they are good, they are very, very good. "Stuck Inside a Mobile with the Memphis Blues Again." Or "Tangled up in Blue"--such a distilled, relatable, and moving track. IMO.

I agree with all of this, and lately have been listening to Armstrong more and more.

Same here - the cultural wasteland we're in seems to be screaming for something real (and truly innovative) again. I do however think Dylan meshed genres such as gospel, blues, folk, and the emerging rock scene in ways that in a lot of instances, very much shone musically.

It was one of those you-had-to-have-been-there things. To white kids in the scene (and blacks, like Hendrix, who were in it) he was a prophet. But to Jazz artists? Meh. There was nothing Dylan ever said or played that hadn't been said or played by them before. It was just that, for various reasons, few at the time cared.

I'm not taking anything away from Dylan - I admire him, and his work, even if I'm not a "fan" - but, placed in musical context, he's not that great. Notable, sure, but not that great. As much as breathing distresses me, I prefer living in a world with him - and his frequent disses to the hippies - than without him.

Ann,

I thought R&R was a combination of blues and country. You don't need jazz in there, do you?

The blocking out of Jazz artists - because of their hardcore racial defiance against the segregation of the time - is one of the travesties of history. Pissed me off, to no end, when I was a kid. Later, I'd hear what the white kids were listening to at school, bring back it's antecedent, or equivalent (or better) by a Jazz artist, and then get dissed because it wasn't "cool" - knowing Miles Davis invented the concept of cool. They weren't hearing any of it, while I was interested in all of it. I just wanted it put together correctly.

Nichevo,

Ugh. Our differences aside, Crack, would you please take this Comfort Woman to school?

I hope that suffices, but you'll notice that, when someone asks a serious question - no matter how silly it might seem - I'm glad to answer in kind. It's only when I'm attacked, or when you guys try to pretend I don't know what I'm talking about, that I'll flame you. (I know what I don't know and I'm happy to admit it.) I know music and I know cults:

You seem to doubt me on one of them and you really shouldn't.

Ask questions, instead, and you'll discover how much I know - and how generous I can be,…

As for cults...mom and I are at hospital with dad most days for the last month...today we were in the lounge when this woman, big woman with gray hair in a Greek fisherman's cap, came in and put on some music or other....long story short she's with the integrative medicine group, talking reiki. I felt bad for mom who listens to every moron but when this one started in on drinking alkaline water I practically dragged her out of the room. I'm a New Yorker, MC, I don't need to be told to watch out for flakes :P

Ann Althouse said "I took that country + blues formula from Keith Richards. Is he wrong?"

The early days of the magic of guitar weaving started then. You realize what you can do playing guitar with another guy, and what the two of you can do is the power of ten, and then you add other people. There's something beautifully friendly and elevating about a bunch of guys playing music together. This wonderful little world is unassailable. It's really teamwork, one guy supporting the others, and it's for one purpose, and there's no flies in the ointment, for a while. And nobody conducting, it's all up to you. It's really jazz--that's the big secret. Rock and roll ain't nothing but jazz with a hard backbeat.~Keith Richards, Life, p. 104.

No, Ann, just being incomplete. He left out American music's transition from when Big Band Jazz groups, by necessity, got smaller. The first R&R record was "Rocket 88" by Ike Turner, working in Louis Jordan's stripped-down style of Jazz (which was called "Jump Blues") though a little more unhinged and raggedy.

Compare it with (formally C&W artist) Bill Haley's version and you can hear the connection with Country - and what was to come when this "new" music got stripped-down even further to two guitars, bass and drums.