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Various articles on regulation claim that a piano action contains "thousands" of parts. For example, the PTG's regulation article puts the number at "more than 9000".

I might be mistaken, but the only way I see to attain such a number, is to count each paper punching, each bushing cloth, each piece of buckskin, each screw, wire and felt separately. And even then, I wonder if one would really reach more than 100 per note?

What's more, how many of those 100 parts are actually moving parts, subject to wear and tear? The PTG article goes on to state that there are "more than 9000 parts which require adjustment to critical tolerances". I would submit that to an uninitiated reader, this wording creates the impression (possibly quite intentionally so?) that EACH of the 9000+ parts must be adjusted.

Just to clarify: I have no issue with the PTG. I've seen several other articles on regulation, using similar wording. But is that not a mis-representation?

From Reblitz's text, and other regulation procedures I've seen, a full regulation entails at most 20 steps, and quite a few of these are not repeated for each note, but once-off, e.g. positioning rails, adjusting trapwork, etc.

At worst, 15 * 88 = 1320 - a far cry from 9000.

I'd be interested in reading your views, and how you describe regulation to a potential customer...

Great question, the subject-matter of which is probably above my pay grade. But here goes:

It is axiomatic that: to every action there is always an equal and opposite reaction. The grand piano action is no exception. One adjustment leads to another, and another, etc., etc.,ad nauseam

I cannot speak to the number of parts in a grand piano action. I've assumed that the PTG is correct. But I can recall severe cases wherein virtually every element of an action - both moving and stationary - required varying measures of regulation or adjustment due to replacements, wear and tear, et al.

Understanding what needs to be done at the outset and pricing the job accordingly to the client is key.

To make it simpler, ask if we can come up with over 100 parts per note. The mention of "require adjustment to critical tolerances" is fun, too. What tolerances are not critical? Like a one ounce key lead, it is critical that it is not 2 ounces. And although the "adjustment" is only during manufacture, you can still call it an adjustment.

So we can only really look at the hard number of over 100 parts per note. It can be done, you just have to get down to a fine enough resolution. Include the film of glue for each joint and felt and leather. How about the coat of lacquer for each damper head? And for the sharps, the lacquer is applied to EACH side, and the FRONT of the keystick AND each side of each lead! And it is "critical" that the lacquer is not 1/8 inch thick! Or consider a hammer. Don't the parts of the molding include the body, the tail and the hole for the shank? And the tail has an inner and outer radius, not to mention the taper, which is on each side! And if we still cannot get to the needed number, we can count the growth rings seperately. And lets not forget the numbers on the keys. When you count the digits there's two more "parts" for all but a few keys which still have one digit.

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Jeff DeutschlePart-Time TunerWho taught the first chicken how to peck?

OK, I couldn't resist, so I sat down during (a slightly extended) tea break to come up with the following first-cut list for an upright action. The upshot: while I think that Jeff has his tongue planted firmly in his cheek by calling a glue seam, a coating of finish or a number a "part", I did come up with about 5600 to 6900 parts.

Notes:(1) It's a beginner's estimate - I may be off here or there!(2) This includes the keboard! (and keyframe)

lol... So I'm not the only one who questioned this statement. I thought it was "Over 100,000" moving parts. (Manufacture who states this will be unnamed). Is the rim included when the piano has wheels?

To answer the OT's question. There are about 12-15 points of regulation in each key. That's counting the damper wire as one point. Then add the glider bolts, keyblocks, and the various trapwork systems; This is enough to keep anybody very busy.

To the contrary: I want to do what's necessary for the piano to play well and sound good. I've just been wondering about the wording that websites and articles use to "sell" jobs such as regulation: "Thousands of (moving) parts that must all be adjusted." To me, the thought of using these words in front of a potential customer doesn't feel quite right.

If I think of a neglected/worn upright action that is still serviceable, then for starters, I'd look at hammer reshaping, strike distance, lost motion, let-off, and possibly key dip and catchers. That's a few hundreds of steps, not many thousands.

So, perhaps some differentiation would be in order, in terms of full regulation as opposed to "band-aid" or "getting back on the road" regulation. But even a full regulation doesn't even remotely involve 9000 steps.

The full PTG sentence is, "It [the action] is comprised of over 9,000 parts which require adjustment to critical tolerances to be able to respond to a pianist's every command."

This, as Mark says, could be taken as a gross misrepresentation when there are only about 1000 - 1500 points of regulation in a piano!

It might be better to say something like "It is comprised of over 9,000 parts which must work together in a very precise way to be able to respond to a pianist's every command."

Of course "working together in a very precise way" is the result of "adjustment to critical tolerances". Also, as a single part can thwart the pianist, any of the 9,000 parts could be involved in regulation and servicing.

Do any PTG members think this is worth taking up with the PTG webmaster?

I've never sat down and counted every single part inside and outside of a piano but, someone must have. Manufacturer's must. If a Steinway, which really, is no different that any other piano as far as parts goes, advertises that if it doesn't have 12,000 some odd parts, then it isn't a Steinway, then, one must assume that it has nearly that many parts, at least?

As for the terminology, a hammer flange needs traveling and spacing. Shanks sometimes need heating and bending to eliminate warping. Jacks need spacing inside of the window's. Bushings need repinning, or checked to make sure they are not to tight. When one thing is adjusted and/or regulated, it affects the remaining parts in one way or another. For example, key dip. To much affects how far the hammer will travel, maybe it will block against the string. it definately affects the way it feels-touch etc.

If you are doing a FULL regulation job, most things inside of the action will need to be changed and/or adjusted/regulated... Hammer filing means removal of felt which means the hammer is now further away from the hammer which means the hammer rail needs raising which means lost motion needs to be removed which means let off is also off etc., right on down the line.

I want to do what's necessary for the piano to play well and sound good. I've just been wondering about the wording that websites and articles use to "sell" jobs such as regulation: "Thousands of (moving) parts that must all be adjusted." To me, the thought of using these words in front of a potential customer doesn't feel quite right.

…..

Then is this a matter of personal authenticity? (I think it has been some 2,000 years since the only completely authentic person walked the earth.) Some customers love the idea that their piano is a mechanical wonder. Others are more pragmatic. When it comes to marketing it is hard to beat Steinway. I think the PTG has copied them in many ways.

Strive to market your services in a way that seems authentic to you , and give the customer the respect to choose what they want.

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Jeff DeutschlePart-Time TunerWho taught the first chicken how to peck?

In a sense. Others may be more confident in selling their services, to the point of embellishment, but as my own worst critic, I have a deep repugnance (and frankly, fear) of over-selling and consequent under-delivery.

Originally Posted By: UnrightTooner

Strive to market your services in a way that seems authentic to you , and give the customer the respect to choose what they want.

Yes, insofar as I work with customers, this is my approach.

Apologies to anyone irritated by this personal interjection in a thread on action parts and regulation...

Others may be more confident in selling their services, to the point of embellishment, but as my own worst critic, I have a deep repugnance (and frankly, fear) of over-selling and consequent under-delivery.

.....

Yes, by all means, wait until you have adjusted 1,000 hammer staples before bragging about the benefit of having you do it! (I may have to see a doctor to have my tongue unstuck from my cheek.)

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Jeff DeutschlePart-Time TunerWho taught the first chicken how to peck?

For fun, here is the list from an old Sohmer Grand diagram. It gets really precise about differences in small parts. I've tried to translate or clarify what is there into modern terms (in parentheses):

You could count the number of molecules, or atoms that it took to make up the piano. Or maybe the number of protons, electrons, and neutrons. Maybe you could count all the different subatomic particles, the quarks and such.

There are infinite possibilities for tuning each string, so no matter how many parts there are, or how many adjustments there are, the possibilities are endless.