You know, after YEARS of practice and advancing to the most mind-blowing ceremonies, you may find yourself one day returning to the first things you did and saying: "Oh wow! EVERYTHING was already there".

I like this statement, I do notice it even in spagyrics. I also understand the definition of which you fella's talk about 'alchemy' and I do understand what you guys mean about it being very specific, i just choose to define alchemy more broadly, in terms of spagyrics and all, because to me, alchemy really is just inforcing the rules and practises of nature, back on herself, whether it is SM or Tumeric, all is the same, we seek to evolve, using nature, this is alchemy to me.

Maybe I am wrong about the official definition, my thinking is that most of you guys only use this word when producing SM and the stone ect... or am i missing the point?

So this talisman outline I did is rather basic and I still think someone who just has the Pentagram and Hexagram rituals could give it a go; whilst being aware of the dangers of overdoing it by going manic and doing loads of them over a few days. The mania, anxiety, black tongue, rainbow urine did actually occur to a guy just from doing basic talisman work so beware. He did also employ the middle pillar exercise but I still think these issues could arise from this more basic method.

Personally I would recommend not bothering with all this GD stuff and just do Franz Bardon's material. With hindsight I think I would have had more parsimonious progress if I had done so. In the early stages of Bardons training loading the flask of oil with what Bardon calls the universal light and giving the intent that the mineral energies move from the precipitating lead metal to the organic molecules would do it.

Yes elixirmixer it will help with the Saturnian energies I think. I employ magical technique specifically at the point when Kerkrings menstruum is added to the oil to enhance the menstruum. I also leave the menstruum and the oil together in the incubator for at least a month.

Last edited by Axismundi000; 11-19-2016 at 10:02 AM.
Reason: Added last bit.

Now, I did ask, is the talisman ritual used to impregnate the matter with the signature and energies of Saturn, or am I mistaken?

Based on my own experience, you are slightly mistaken. From the way it was explained by AM, the ritual creates a talisman which radiates Saturnian energy. This talisman is then placed near or under the matter during the work.
(Please correct me if I'm mistaken, Axis)

However, if anyone does attempt this ritual with Saturn, they should be fully aware of the fact that they're inviting the "Planet of Karma" into their life, for better or worse.

In my opinion, it would be much more advantageous to begin with a Lunar talisman and work on silver, as the energy is much more mellow (after the elements, Bardon suggests the Moon be the first planet worked with).

Yes the talisman radiates a force which steadily influences the liquid in the flask. I think you have made a prudent suggestion Kiorionis, lunar would be a better one to begin with. I am working with lead so therefore Saturn.

I do not understand what makes these rituals so dangerous... nevertheless i do understand that they are in fact dangerous, and I think i will take your advice here. Ill start at the bottom with everyone else with some middle pillar ect... and then when i make an Oil of Silver, then I may attempt this talisman magic.

The easiest way to explain it is through analogy. Everyday and normal reality is like drinking a glass of water. You're hydrated and feeling good.

Elemental energies are like having a beer with dinner. You're slightly tipsy, but the protein and carbohydrates take the edge off. You might like another brew.

The Moon is like being a few beers deep. You'll have a hangover, but you can't really call it a "hangover" -- at least, you can still get shit done if you need to.

Saturn's energy is like a blackout-drunk. You started with a bottle of red wine, then went downtown and took a few shots of tequilla. You met some girls who invited you over to a house-party where you drank shitty keg beer, a few microbrews, smoked a bowl then ate a burrito.

Then more wine and more tequila. Maybe another burrito, who knows. The only thing you do know before you black out with the spins is that vomiting up those burritos and that weird red shit that could either be wine or blood may have been the only thing which saved your life from alcohol poisoning. And where the fuck did those girls go?

Lol. Or something like that. Basically, an advanced magician is like an operative alcoholic

The easiest way to explain it is through analogy. Everyday and normal reality is like drinking a glass of water. You're hydrated and feeling good.

Elemental energies are like having a beer with dinner. You're slightly tipsy, but the protein and carbohydrates take the edge off. You might like another brew.

The Moon is like being a few beers deep. You'll have a hangover, but you can't really call it a "hangover" -- at least, you can still get shit done if you need to.

Saturn's energy is like a blackout-drunk. You started with a bottle of red wine, then went downtown and took a few shots of tequilla. You met some girls who invited you over to a house-party where you drank shitty keg beer, a few microbrews, smoked a bowl then ate a burrito.

Then more wine and more tequila. Maybe another burrito, who knows. The only thing you do know before you black out with the spins is that vomiting up those burritos and that weird red shit that could either be wine or blood may have been the only thing which saved your life from alcohol poisoning. And where the fuck did those girls go?

Lol. Or something like that. Basically, an advanced magician is like an operative alcoholic

I don't know whether to feel insulted or complimented. lol XD either way, you're right, and I like it. lol

I would relate it to being a conduit of sorts. Your microcosmic self is communing with Macro forces/energies/archons etc (depending on to what extent you manage to get your feet wet).
"Burn out" is a real thing, can be psychologically and/or physically damaging, even fatal depending. Tread cautiously, respectfully, but fearlessly. Its a fine line between predator and prey; working bulb and blown one, circuit and tripped breaker. I'd say its a fine line between God (apotheosis) and dead (broken down and recycled).
I like to use that line as a jump rope.

~Seth-Ra

One fatal tree there stands of knowledge called, forbidden them to taste. Knowledge forbidden? Suspicious. Reasonless. And why should their Lord envy them that? Can it be sin to know? Can it be death? And do they stand by ignorance, is that their happy state, the proof of their obedience and their faith?