03:45:50BingoBoingo:benkay: Well my prediction for the US 2014 Q2 - 2015 Q3 is plenty of awkwardness.

03:46:46benkay:whaddaya mean by awkwardness though? derpy 'founder's of more tender years than i?

03:47:54benkay:or just this dancing-around-trying-to-grab-each-others-nuts that is the price finding game in the absence of a clear price signal

03:51:47BingoBoingo:benkay: I'm just thinking of what Putin is doing in Ukraine vs. Bush-Obama in the US. It's going to force a lot of soul searching at the top of the US about the essence of being a super power when mapped onto results.

03:55:34BingoBoingo:I doubt action of the favoritism that promotes golden toilet worship, this tension has been around awhile (see the late Col Hackworth)

03:58:01BingoBoingo:I'd be on the lookout for quiet, coded realizations in print that the US fell out of Superpower status without the fanfare of other's who have left the club in the past.

05:16:08BingoBoingo:bitcoinpete: As a great man once said "No bastard ever won a war by dying for his country. You won it by making the other poor dumb bastard die for his country."

05:17:53BingoBoingo:bitcoinpete: The same person also said "When I want my men to remember something important, to really make it stick, I give it to them double dirty. It may not sound nice to a bunch of little old ladies, at an afternoon tea party, but it helps my soldiers to remember. You can't run an army without profanity, and it has to be eloquent profanity. An army without profanity couldn't fight its way out of a piss-soaked paper bag."

05:21:41BingoBoingo:I was kind of just bringing up these quotes in the context of addressing scammers. It isn't enough to merely be better than the scammers through knowing. You have to make them answer for their purpose, and in doing so you have to use language that sticks

05:45:36fluffypony:"The SAFEst thing for Bitcoiners to do is keep their coins, back-up their hard drives, and encrypt their important files using PGP/GPG. The SAFEst thing for you to do is to find a VC or go back to the drawing board." <- best line in the article

06:39:51jurov:BingoBoingo: litecoins don't expire on a whim of investors

06:40:22jurov:and their value does not depends on who is offering them

06:41:15BingoBoingo:Are you sure litecoins don't expire on the whims of investors/speculators? 1 LTC = 1 LTC, but beyond that... Who pumps them at a particular time seems to affect their value quite a bit.

06:41:51jurov:so you see no difference between them and ascii's shitcoins?

07:14:54BingoBoingo:"This drives me crazy when people don't include the costs of labor. It would be like someone getting a car donated to them and saying "Wow cars only cost $200 for a title and registration! Why do people pay thousands of dollars for a car!?" Because someone gave you one for free!"

07:17:20BingoBoingo:I like how all of these discussions ignore the proper use of a hand which is satisfying a girl, so that you can use the girl to satisfy yourself.

07:33:50BingoBoingo:Diablo-D3: Honestly I really dun give a shit about that anyways, detergents are just surfactants that aren't derived from fatty acids, as a class detergent is a meaningless designation

08:10:00BingoBoingo:I think asciilifeform is right about the Lisps being the future though

08:10:01bounce:relevant for this channel is the gpg-card thingies. problem with those is that the source isn't available, though a spec is. an open source implementation would be nice, and perhaps cheaper than sourcing the closed-source thing.

09:24:39fluffypony:"The movement was, however, used in spacecraft instrument clocks and other time-keeping mechanisms, partly also because NASA was still unsure how gravity would affect mechanical movements."

09:25:55BingoBoingo:It is amazing how personal timekeeping hasn't had any advancements since 1970, much like how you still seem fluffypony to be the sort that would borrow bitcoin for cheap polyester couches.

10:03:43mircea_popescu:bounce "the odd dos-only application that's critical to the business and irreplacable" << this should be ridiculous but isn't. most "tools" of today aren't actally as good as the tools of the 90s.

10:05:24mircea_popescu:on that note, often manufacturers explicitly forbid to install updates and servicepacks since it might well break the app. << since heartbleed i'm going to forbid any upgrades as part of the contract in all cases, always and forever.

10:05:44mircea_popescu:from what i hear i'm by no means of a minority oppinion (even if i no longer to that sort of thing on any sort of scale)

10:06:25mircea_popescu:;;later tell cgcardona lol is it the first best largest wot ?

10:18:58mircea_popescu:fluffypony: in which /r/Bitcoin can't decide whether to spend its ten cents on supersizing the coke or the fries. it's really unfair anyway because if they supersize one they should get the other for free. << FTFY

10:29:50mircea_popescu:"Their common ? They both worked at Orange / France Telecom , the first from 2007 to 2011, the second from 2005 to 2011 . They are logically met through this company that pushes people into suicide."

10:30:22mircea_popescu:"Out of nowhere like a UFO website beegcoin edited by BEEG CORPORATION LIMITED, registered in London and created by young French to be, I think, a huge slap to the ego -centric bitcoin.

10:37:20mircea_popescu:artifexd: Put that ink in your printer and make a super sekrit paper wallet. << plain white wallpaper with floral designs that morphs into japanese girls and octopuses once you shine a black light in the dark.

10:40:21mircea_popescu:jurov: Apocalyptic: imagine world directors talking about important topics whole days wrapped in clouds of smoke << this is shockingly true, i think we smoked a small dog's weight of tobacco

10:41:06fluffypony:experientia docet? I thought we were against that? :-P

10:41:12mircea_popescu:fluffypony: I love foosball << davout is fucking criminal at that thing. he beat everyone, single against teams, everything.

14:30:30FabianB:Tencent's CEO: "In America, when you bring an idea to market you usually have several months before competition pops up, allowing you to capture significant market share. In China, you can have hundreds of competitors within the first hours of going live. Ideas are not important in China--execution is."

14:52:14fluffypony:mircea_popescu: wrt making Sybil attacks harder, isn't there/couldn't there be a GPG-like system that uses a common private key for a single owner, but also hash some sort of easily identifiable GUID as part of the pubkey/signature to indicate which machine it is on? that way an attacker's work becomes slightly more complex, as they need to not only create profiles but have a fresh VM/install/whatever for them

15:03:52mircea_popescu:"Holy shit! What kind of toy random number generator is GPG using? Never mind that the message is printed twice. Never mind that both messages flick by before I have half a chance to read them, let alone do anything to entropize my system. ?Wiggle the mouse for moar entropies.? I wouldn?t trust a program that prints messages like this to protect my middle school slambook."

15:07:10mircea_popescu:here's to hoping that this is the first, biggest and largest exchange

15:07:34exchange01:can i speak to you in private i am not familar with irc

15:08:03mircea_popescu:fluffypony the guy is derping about what "gpg does in 2014" forgetting to even mention what version he's using. because everything in his head was born this year, so obviously...

15:10:10mircea_popescu:to not even get in the advanced topics of how 50%+1 of crypto-related specs are broken by design anyway. what sort of argument is this, that package x is bad because it allows user to do something some rfc says should not be done ? blergh.

15:10:59fluffypony:mircea_popescu: but he likes it because it's "his design" and so therefore infallible

15:11:21mircea_popescu:so who is this guy ? doing an ipo or anything ?

15:14:23exchange01:mircea_popescu are you receiving what im sending u using /msg ?

15:14:52fluffypony:exchange01: I have a BIRC from the University of the Internet-pre-1995

15:14:54mircea_popescu:BingoBoingo why is this byrne kid so fixated on the entire personal attack angle ? he told thickashtieves the same thing, yet how the heck would his being clueless a personal attack on me. wtf, i'm not his mother.

15:15:25mircea_popescu:exchange01 i don't hold private conversations with people i don't know. this is kinda the basis of private conversations : the parties must be acquainted.

15:24:16mircea_popescu:"Likewise, today when a Westerner tells a Lebanese Shiite that he has a separate "ethnicity", he is baffled. Mazhab is not ethnicity, no more than being a democrat in the US would be a different race (although it should be)."

15:27:05mircea_popescu:"Having spent more than two decades, as an option trader and book-runner (~ 650,000 trades), I have always been leery of inexperienced academics talking about "prediction markets" when we have organic, spontaneously formed markets, and have had them since civilization started --my reaction is that of an old plane engineer and pilot being lectured by a high school English student who never flew a plane. You can't tell t

15:33:31fluffypony:"Bitcoin itself can be viewed as an early form of DAC. We are generalizing the concept for use in the open source community, building on Bitcoin's proven technology. Bitcoin could be reimplemented as a full open standards-compliant DAC. Perhaps someday it will."

15:34:03mircea_popescu:i'll borrow the expression from taleb, since i just read it : this shit's not even wrong.

15:34:37benkay:generalizing concepts. sounds like someone heard about 'general solutions' from someone else with a lil bit o programmery experience and decided it was important to do for their ideas as well.

15:35:04benkay:"it's not enough that this is specifically stupid, i'm going to generalize this idiocy to the general case."

15:35:47mircea_popescu:benkay that's exactly what happens. someone who was taught in primary school to "guess what words meran in context" instead of being beaten every time he failed to look up new words in the dictionary

16:58:34cgcardona_:so now that I have it set to enforce it will make someone enter my nickserv each time and if not kick them off of my nick?

16:59:03*:bounce views nickserv as rather fascist already, nevermind nick enforcing. it's the thing to do on here, but, you know. can also argue that with only gribble it'd give more incentive to check with gribble first and foremost, and to accept no substitutes.

17:50:33fluffypony:turbo_ac100: maybe we can get #justmanticorethings trending?

17:50:45bounce:what was that picture again, of some narco guy's mansion with on the order of 18bn in usd and assorted further currencies in various places, down to simply stacked in a room. one'd think that's enough to buy an underground bunker to store the stuff.

17:52:18bounce:oh, apparently misremembered, only 207mn usd. still, what's an underground bunker or two cost these days?

17:59:46fluffypony:"A raid of his home in the wealthy neighborhood of Mexico City produced what police described as "the largest single drug cash seizure the world has ever seen." Almost $207 million sat in the house in cash. Seven high-powered firearms were also in the house, the New York Times reported."

18:00:12bounce:apt, though. consider what happens to reported prices, the so called "street value"

18:02:18bounce:curiously, a load of stolen garlic got recovered (border agents smelled something), and the value reported sounded like they used wholesale prices, not "supermarket prices".

18:02:22fluffypony:"$22 billion/[(310 million people)(12 years)(~$5,000/person/year)]=0.0012. $22 billion would meet about 0.12% of the health insurance costs for 12 years. Actual cost would be $18.6 trillion. Health insurance would have to cost $5.91 per person per year for $22 billion to cover everyone for 12 years."

18:31:19mircea_popescu:I would like to record here (so people get off my back) that I do not belong to the so-called "Austrian School" of economics, in spite of a few similar positions on bailouts and bottom-up systems. I believe in mathematical statements. But if I were to belong to a school of thought designated by a nationality, the {NATIONALITY} SCHOOL of {DISCIPLINE} it would be the Russian school of probability.

18:35:11cgcardona_:also, my 5 year old son is obsessed w/ qr codes. He askes me to scan everyone that we see (yes this could backfire one day). I think people of his generation will find QR codes quite intuitive

18:35:12mircea_popescu:"my prediction is". da fguck is this shit, "cluster4" is now making "my prediction" ?

18:35:14davout:nah, in all seriousness, i don't know about you, but i don't piss with my balls

18:35:25mircea_popescu:people have a lot of difficulty groking that if you're anonymous... there is no property.

18:38:03davout:mircea_popescu: i'd say fungibility is the absence of identity, anonymity is the absence of name, but i'm too tipsy on that delicious rosé champagne to even imagine arguing the point properly

18:38:09mircea_popescu:stupid enough to not realise he can't have a "my" as nobody, clueless enough to fail to distinguish a verb from a possessive. this is reddit.

18:40:45mircea_popescu:curious to see how you'll argue cluster4 is not fungible with cluster3 or derpymcherp or w/e.

18:41:41mircea_popescu:this entire shit is backwards. views, which are not fungible, people pretend are in fact fungible. then anons, which are absolutely fungible, people pretend like are not. apparently the web is quite counterintuitive.

18:43:17davout:mircea_popescu: derps might be fungible as anonymous entities, entities we couldn't care to name, it doesn't really impede their ability to each own a bitcent

18:52:23davout:mircea_popescu: yes, but fungibility and anonymity lie in the observer, property lies with the things themselves

18:52:26bounce:yeah, no. with davout on this one, "anonymity" is lack of a label, not necessarily lack of an underlying identity. on the flip side, you already know what jehova's witnesses will try and tell you without you needing their name, regardless of whether they offer their name. if they do, they're no longer anonymous. it doesn't affect your esteem for what they're trying to tell you.

18:57:55mircea_popescu:"A 43-year-old programmer who helped set in motion a class-action lawsuit against the companies and became one of its five class representatives will not be present in the San Jose courtroom. He was shot and killed by the police last December."

18:58:35davout:i don't think that my ability to distinguish derps is really related to their ability to own stuff, it is not necessary for me to be able to know they are able to destroy a bitcoin for them to actually be able to destroy a bitcoin

18:59:20mircea_popescu:davout your ability to distinguish derps is however central to their ability to exist.

18:59:43mircea_popescu:you can be bios, but you can not be zoon unrecognised.

19:00:03mircea_popescu:so yes, animals they can be. people however, they can not be, unless recognised.

19:00:25bounce:there's this conflation of "person" to mean "someone who matters (to me)", which is highly viewpoint-dependent. your basic definition appears to be "someone who matters in the bitcoin sphere and can be trusted not to fsck up (too badly)". might need a suitable word for that.

19:00:52mircea_popescu:bounce it merely means "someone who can be distinguished from the others"

19:01:16davout:what you're saying is pretty much that derps exist in a quantum superposition of owning, and not-owning stuff, and that their actual ownership resolves when i actually observe, aka measure them

19:01:19mircea_popescu:which reduces to "someone who could, in principle, matter"

19:07:09bounce:you still end up with two ends of a stick. "person", "not a person"

19:07:51mircea_popescu:how are these ends of a stick ? there's no continuum

19:09:18bounce:or sides. you can discern both states, even if the distance between them is infinitesmal and only exists as an idea to boot

19:09:57bounce:when's the liquour strong enough? well, if it's over $strength. something like that.

19:10:15mircea_popescu:let's try a different tack. you know what a cog is. you also know what a sphere is.

19:10:28mircea_popescu:good anonimity, just like good sphericity, relies on not being a cog. at all.

19:10:45mircea_popescu:conversely, good cogicity, just like good personhood, relies on not being a sphere. at all.

19:11:01davout:bounce: the way i understand the argument is that ownership is akin to the state of an electron, until you observe it exists in a superposition of states, it can only have a state when you observe it

19:11:02mircea_popescu:now, this does not reduce to "liquor being strong ENOUGH"

19:19:12mircea_popescu:"Now academics learn to take a paper or a class of papers, imitate the style, the organization; copy the phraseology, discuss the historical literature and find some wrinkle on the problem that makes it look like a contribution. This is what tends to be published, and this is what seems to be "original". And these works never survive the author."

19:19:32mircea_popescu:because someone somewhere in a bureaucracy figured it's a good idea to fucking industrialise research.

19:20:39bounce:guy posing as "CEO" claiming to have lots of minions needs a good team. since claim made, up to him to back it up. that's not quite the same as requiring to know his every move or his every thought.

19:21:14bounce:s/back it up/&, show he has such a team/ etc. bit forgetful with the details today

19:21:16mircea_popescu:nobody requires to know his every move or thought in any sense.

19:25:44bounce:anyway, "good wot relations" means that you've met and dealt with a number of other people, and gathered their esteem, and in doing so gathered a total esteem enough to be deemed worthy of the community as a whole.

19:27:59mircea_popescu:if it's the kneejerk "not usg diddled" then might as well discard it.

19:30:17bounce:"subjective" as every user of the wot looking to form an opinion on some other user of the wot does so as he deems good, mayhaps taking into account that raters will also use their own criteria to rate with.

19:30:45mircea_popescu:so inasmuch as good is done, this is optimal not subjective.

19:31:08mircea_popescu:if he looked to do what he felt like it could have been subjective, as a proxy for aesthetic i guess.

19:32:12bounce:what I mean is that even if the outcome is roughly the same for different onlookers, their conclusions are (supposedly) their own; like how you notice that there's no intl. standard of interpreting ratings. nor should there be.

19:42:28bounce:whether I take a tape measure to $derp or you do it, when done correctly we both will conclude the guy's length to be $whatever. that'd be objective. we both look at his WOT ratings, we might well draw different conclusions on the same data.

19:43:12bounce:we could devise a "standard" scoring test for WOT ratings and still draw differing conclusions based on what we see

19:43:16mircea_popescu:this is more akin to you using inches and me using cm.

19:43:39mircea_popescu:both of these "objectively" examples you provide strictly adhere to your definition of subjectivity,

19:45:03mircea_popescu:<bounce> an objective measure? a metre, standard the world over. < 1 ; <bounce> whether I take a tape measure to $derp or you do it, when done correctly we both will conclude the guy's length to be $whatever. < 2

19:45:33mircea_popescu:your "done corectly" is there precisely because you too know this :

19:45:43mircea_popescu:god help us if our opinions of these subjectives do not agree.

19:46:39bounce:both're objective; I don't need a judgement call here, I look at the tape measure.

19:47:23mircea_popescu:but you need a judgement call for the tape measure to exist in the first place.

19:48:10mircea_popescu:you seem to be roughly in the position of the slave who says his master's will is divine in nature, because it's outside of his reach.

19:48:22bounce:eh, I think we're past that. I can put three lava lamps on a table and count them. you'll count three too. no feels or beliefs involved. even if our counting system is ultimately arbitrary in it existence

19:48:22mircea_popescu:while outside of his reach it may well be, his master's just another guy.

19:48:50mircea_popescu:so numbers are your standard of objectivity, but then when i ask you <mircea_popescu> are you using "subjectivity" merely to note the fact that the numeric method does not apply ? you say no.

22:45:41dexX7:asicminer: "What is the status, size, and expected delivery of the next batch of chips? What about the one after that? -> This month: 850k, next month: 3.35m (order size), June: 6.7m (order size), assuming each chip is 10G." soo.. that's 8.5 - 67 petahash x_x