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if you oneshot someone coming out of invis, you did not make any sort of a skilled play. with pink wards the way they were, they forced invis assassins to play strategically and actually BE GOOD AT THE CHAMPION THEY WERE PLAYING. Back in the day, pink wards sure as hell didnt stop a good rengar or shaco from oneshotting a squishy. invis champions should have to learn to adapt, and especially now that duskblade is in the game with its bullshit passive, they have zero excuse for not being able to one shot any squishy in the game.

> pink wards the way they were, they forced invis assassins to play strategically and actually BE GOOD AT THE CHAMPION THEY WERE PLAYING
actually, no. Pink wards forced invis assassins to be 24/7 splitpushers if anyone in their team knew that grouping+putting pink at their center will make said assassin 100% useless. Back in the day pinks stopped shaco (rengar not, but it's due to his leap range) from having any impact in teamfights, because all what he could do is run at someone while being revealed by a pink. Squishy assassin running at someone, sounds like he won't die in 1 sec yes? Old assassins basically relied on enemies being fucking dumb. They couldn't do anything by themselves against good players. Thankfully this is gone now.
Please, don't act like buying 75 gold item to negate a purpose of entire champion is a skillful and balanced play. It's just not. Why couldn't i buy an item for 75 gold which would make me immune to ranged autoattacks then?
also
> if you oneshot someone coming out of invis, you did not make any sort of a skilled play.
well neither did you, rightclicking someone from range is as skillful as oneshots from range.

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this entire comment is meme central
Seeker's is and has been a garbage item for a looooong time. And Zed's early game is not nearly as bad as you are making it out to be. Also Zed was viable before these buffs.

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> [{quoted}](name=LTK KoRo,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=UNY3sRA1,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2019-02-21T08:30:25.506+0000)
>
> because he was pretty bad above plat.
>
> Because his harass had a ridiculous 22 sec CD and it wasn't even strong? Zed uses w and he's unable to farm for 22 secs. Zed is easily abusable but most players are scared to come close and harass W-less Zed.
Fucking hate this "above plat" BULLSHIT... So its basically FUCK the 20 million people that play this shit everyday, lets worry about how 1 million in the upper tier feels. FUUUUHK that. Zed shreds absolutely everyone, EVERYONE.... but he cant do triple kills in platnium+ so lets buff him. smh

below plat literally anything can rampage. 20 million people or more ale playing this game like shit, and they can beat each other with totally random ass builds on random ass champions. Im 100% sure that someone right now is hard carrying a plat below game with AP Warwick, Toplane Taric or Nocturne mid, but it doesn't fucking matter. Do you want these to get nerfed too? Balancing game around low elo is just straight up dumb, because nerfs were just unjustified.

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> [{quoted}](name=LTK KoRo,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=UNY3sRA1,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2019-02-21T08:30:25.506+0000)
>
> because he was pretty bad above plat.
>
> Because his harass had a ridiculous 22 sec CD and it wasn't even strong? Zed uses w and he's unable to farm for 22 secs. Zed is easily abusable but most players are scared to come close and harass W-less Zed.
You're not supposed to farm for 22 secs if you use WEQ to more than half HP someone with electrocute procs from 650 range which no other assassin can do.
You also out of all assassins have an IWIN R button that not only gives you an invulnerability window, but multiplies your damage potential and thus scaling massively compared to other assassins on top of that same ult giving you yet another shadow to juke/escape with while all the other assassins don't have such an overloaded ult.
What other assassin can kill Revenge's Riven in Tiwtch Rivals? Oh, right, none other than Zed.
Zed gets to start with longsword and 3 pots every game against a mage, who at best gets doran's ring+2 pots or dark seal with 2 refillable pots. Even with resolve secondary as Zed you half HP most mages with a WEQ electrocute combo.
Your job as Zed isn't to get farm early, it's to get XP and push the opponent out of lane by landing a single WEQ combo because that's all you need to put them in kill range by the time you hit lv6, so they are forced to decide whether they want to try to stay and keep xp while risking giving you a kill and snowballing you, or backing to base and still fall behind on xp so you'll always have a level up all in threat on them.
Not like last hitting as Zed is hard considering his passive gives him easy mode last hits almost as braindead as Annie, and Zed has much better waveclear than Annie on top.

> You're not supposed to farm for 22 secs if you use WEQ to more than half HP someone with electrocute procs from 650 range which no other assassin can do.
In order for zed to proc electrocute he needs to hit you with double q. Why do you even walk into the second one? Also probably more than half of the mages have spells with range bigger than 650, you can bully him too yknow
> You also out of all assassins have an IWIN R button that not only gives you an invulnerability window, but multiplies your damage potential and thus scaling massively compared to other assassins on top of that same ult giving you yet another shadow to juke/escape with while all the other assassins don't have such an overloaded ult.
Same "IWIN" r button makes your next position very telegraphed and anyone with a brain will cc you short while after landing. If Zed actually uses his R to dodge your stuff then you got outplayed. And yes, Zed ult multiples his damage, but his damage without ultimate is terrible. And you know what that does? Makes him ult reliant, which is good. And most of the assassins have a way in-way out. Examples. Kha E reset+R. Kata E resets. Evelynn R. Talon E.
> What other assassin can kill Revenge's Riven in Tiwtch Rivals? Oh, right, none other than Zed.
because a simple tournament which consists only streamers is a accurate view of balance. No one else could kill Revenge's Riven because... they were inferior players to Revenge. Also Zed is an assassin with biggest outplay potential in the class.
> Zed gets to start with longsword and 3 pots every game against a mage, who at best gets doran's ring+2 pots or dark seal with 2 refillable pots. Even with resolve secondary as Zed you half HP most mages with a WEQ electrocute combo.
Mages can start {{item:2033}} yknow. Pro players do it all the time. And i recently played Gragas mid vs Zed with electrocute, after eating his WEQ+electrocute i lost like 30% of my hp, not 50%.
> Your job as Zed isn't to get farm early, it's to get XP and push the opponent out of lane by landing a single WEQ combo because that's all you need to put them in kill range by the time you hit lv6, so they are forced to decide whether they want to try to stay and keep xp while risking giving you a kill and snowballing you, or backing to base and still fall behind on xp so you'll always have a level up all in threat on them.
And mages job is to hardshove him and don't let him close the gap. 650 isn't that much of a range, most of the mages can waveclear from away. Also, wooo, assassin have a kill pressure on mage after poking him once. HOW COULD THIS HAPPEN, ASSASSINS SHOULDN'T BE ABLE TO KILL ANYONE
> Not like last hitting as Zed is hard considering his passive gives him easy mode last hits almost as braindead as Annie, and Zed has much better waveclear than Annie on top.
Well yes, Zed can lasthit easily. So what? Different champions have different strengths and weaknesses.
Overall you're too biased vs Zed to talk rational. Just think a bit if Zed is TRULY that good, and ask yourself how often Zed loses/wins a game.

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> [{quoted}](name=LTK KoRo,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Aa1zzwg5,comment-id=00000001,timestamp=2019-02-21T08:25:03.733+0000)
>
> they aren't obviously stronger than before 8.11, but they're broken again. Just a bit less broken.
Not even close to broken. A midlaner will fuck any adc any day. Doesn’t matter how fed the Adc is unless it’s like 20+ kills.

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> [{quoted}](name=LTK KoRo,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=f47zW0to,comment-id=00020000,timestamp=2019-02-21T14:34:14.747+0000)
>
> but healing two people sounds better than healing one person as a support?
In some situations, yeah. But if a weaker heal on my carry isn't gonna save them then I'd rather the beefier single target heal

I know that kayle players would prefer it. But yknow why it works that way? Because kayle can't have ridiculous laning sustain. She's a hypercarry and her laning being shit is 101 of her design. Making single-target heal stronger would make her laning really strong against enemies with weak/mediocre poke

pray to rngesus that your botlane is the better one. Current meta is "better bot wins" again and crit adcs outscale everyone at two items, so uh...
you can also play stuff like {{champion:98}} {{champion:59}} {{champion:79}} {{champion:57}} {{champion:111}} top with {{summoner:12}}, rush {{item:3193}} {{item:3109}} {{item:3190}} and cover their asses (and lose all your plates by 8 minute). I can guarantee you that it works (sometimes) and feels totally miserable to play (always)

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I wish the E gave active range for 10 seconds like before.
I guess I'm a melee champion now, so I better have MELEE BASE STATS
new Q is really cool, but the hitbox might be too thin.
I hope the E cooldown is short
R is fucking stupid. 160s CD rank 1 means the ability is gonna be ASS to use. I want invul, not damage, give back my short cooldown.
R needs to have no mana cost OR increase kayle's mana. E needs to restore at least half it's cost on killing minions with the empowered attack.

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Yes , they are good
it makes Zed players that miss everything less rewarding
and more rewarding to Zed players that hit everything
but that won't deny that he was strong and got a buff to even get stronger in the hands of good players

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> [{quoted}](name=FSRER,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=UNY3sRA1,comment-id=0002000000000000,timestamp=2019-02-21T11:46:40.084+0000)
>
> Kata can heal for most damage she does thanks to gunblade. Zed does not do that even tho he got buffed so he can escape easily a all-go-in because assassins were totally created to get in, instakill 2 or 3 people and then just get out!!
good luck getting that gunblade before zed killds u 3 times with dirk. also vanguards is a horrible item while hexdrinker literally makes you unkillable vs anything that is ap until they get voidstaff.

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> [{quoted}](name=LTK KoRo,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=q79zTwXL,comment-id=0001000000000000,timestamp=2019-02-21T10:45:32.817+0000)
>
> and thats why she was kept in gutter a lot of her history. Ranged hypercarry with 3 secs of invulnerability sounds like a kind of busted concept. Im glad that she can't aa for 1.5 secs after ulting, that's a good change
Okay, but melee hypercarry with 5 seconds of invulnerability and a dash is fine?

yes, because he's easily kiteable in teamfights, his "invulnerability" isn't actually invulnerability and he doesn't have any innate defense shred. Trynda is a top notch duelist and bad-to-mediocre teamfighter, Kayle was a top notch teamfighter and top notch duelist who was gated only be her early (which wasn't even bad due to her E)

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> [{quoted}](name=Dynikus,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=q79zTwXL,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2019-02-21T09:32:51.251+0000)
>
> They removed power from her ultimate by disallowing her to just pop it and wail on the enemy so that they could add power in other parts of her kit.
> I think it'a a good change, personally.
I'd rather be able to wail (as Kayle was fully capable of pre-rework), than get a big AOE attack.

and thats why she was kept in gutter a lot of her history. Ranged hypercarry with 3 secs of invulnerability sounds like a kind of busted concept. Im glad that she can't aa for 1.5 secs after ulting, that's a good change

because adcs are spoiled children and they believe that you should be their slave
no matter which adc im working with im going to pick {{champion:12}} or {{champion:89}} and roam shit ton, im not your slave or peebitch

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> [{quoted}](name=LTK KoRo,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=UNY3sRA1,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2019-02-21T08:30:25.506+0000)
>
> because he was pretty bad above plat.
>
> Because his harass had a ridiculous 22 sec CD and it wasn't even strong? Zed uses w and he's unable to farm for 22 secs. Zed is easily abusable but most players are scared to come close and harass W-less Zed.
And the game also have champs that are useless across all ranks

because he was pretty bad above plat.
> Can somebody explain me why Zed's ability to harass got buffed even more?
Because his harass had a ridiculous 22 sec CD and it wasn't even strong? Zed uses w and he's unable to farm for 22 secs. Zed is easily abusable but most players are scared to come close and harass W-less Zed.

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I'm honestly disappointed in Riot for buffing crit itemization back up to improve the state of Marksmen.
ADC is supposed to be the late game class Riot! Not the two-item class!
You want to buff ADCs? Just _give us late game back_.

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I don’t see how Adc is stronger than is 8.11 but w/e
And Lucien is only strong because black cleaver is too strong an item. It needs the cdr either ripped off of it, or the armor shred nuked down. Bork also could do with some changes. Maybe have it’s lifesteal
Not apply to the bonus damage from its passive.

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the thing is, this new conqueror will be so abused by every ADC and fighter, you can't even imagine.
Sure bruisers will have better time vs tanks, but EVERYONE will have worse time alltogether.
Listen, I... dislike the idea of handing true damage to everything. But in this case I could understand it. But does it also have to add damage AND lifesteal? It's obviously made not for bruisers, but ADCs.
Would I have better idea? Dunno, maybe. But i'd try not to just toss even more damage where it's not needed.

conqueror's true damage was a good idea how to make bruisers stronger vs tanks without buffing the squishy-popping ability of bruisers. If it would give less AD im 100% sure that there would be 0 complaints about it.
If you have a better idea how to fix previous issue then im listening

get outplayed by two targeted abilities and 4 autos with +2.0 AS lol
adcs are cancer and enchanters make this cancer even bigger
also remember guys, crit got nerfed in 8.11, then Tristana got buffs on her E scaling and then crit got reverted XD
im sure she's fine now right? right? maybe it's time to rollback post 8.11 adcs individual buffs?

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> [{quoted}](name=LTK KoRo,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=YN6Lsnna,comment-id=0000000000000000,timestamp=2019-02-19T09:05:17.074+0000)
>
> same with every other item on this list without gunblade. Defensive item stacking proves to be too good on adcs. RIP stacking these two on bruisers {{item:3156}} {{item:3053}}
Riots probably already saw the post and is in the process of implementing the change on zhonyas while practicing saying "OH MAN THE PLAYS!" in front of a mirror with pictures of Zed taped to it.

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> [{quoted}](name=LTK KoRo,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=zqWz4nnx,comment-id=00060000000000020000,timestamp=2019-02-19T07:40:19.078+0000)
>
> you were talking about proccing grievous wounds. I guess every AD champion buys executioner before lvl 6 then?
It's 800 gold, virtually 500 gold cheaper than last chapter and something you should definitely be taking into Nasus/Sylas/pre-nerf Akali match ups to begin with. I'd even use it against Kayle or Xin Zhao.

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> [{quoted}](name=LTK KoRo,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Tta8XsQo,comment-id=0002000100000000,timestamp=2019-02-19T09:00:59.167+0000)
>
> but you usually can't get on top of him. Especially when he have a peelbitch around {{champion:40}} {{champion:117}} {{champion:16}} {{champion:201}}
Then that’s smart team comp building. Was gnarvan op? No because it required two specific picks.
How about alistar kalista, is that op because they get a lot of cc? No because it take two specific picks.
How about Kayle, zilean and aatrox with a ga?
Things that require two specific picks are not generally op, that’s just drafting smart and using synergy.

there's a difference in combos like gnarvan, galio+camille or kindred+zilean and any hypercarry+any peelbitch. If you're scared about enemy comp going for the gnarvan, you just ban gnar or jarvan and it's fine. How im supposed to ban all the adc hypercarries and enchanters?