Delta has filed an application with The Department of Transportation to offer daily service between Detroit and Sao Paulo with a 767-300ER.

Delta initially plans to offer two flights a week (presumably transferring them from LAX-GRU) starting in November.

Then, Delta has applied for five additional frequencies when more GRU frequencies become available. So, essentially, Delta is applying for "first dibs" on something that is not even available yet. It will be very interesting to see how this plays out with DOT.

Removing the game playing aspect, I think DTW-GRU is a solid application (new Brasil market, relatively unserved part of the United States, better local market than a CLT-GIG). Like you, though, I'm not sure how the way Delta went about it will affect their chances.

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 1):Quoting mah4546 (Thread starter):
It will be very interesting to see how this plays out with DOT.

Removing the game playing aspect, I think DTW-GRU is a solid application (new Brasil market, relatively unserved part of the United States, better local market than a CLT-GIG).

You can also add in significantly better feed from the Asian flights as well. Obviously that's not necessarily in the interest of the DOT (seeing as how Asian connections to South America don't matter to the DOT, only US citizens do, yadda-yadda), but it would certainly help the performance of the flight.

Quoting mah4546 (Reply 7):But is it from this pool of fourteen? It is worded so confusingly. But I guess you are right, where else would the slots come from.

Yes, from that pool with one of Delta's famous footnotes:

Delta has entered into a transaction with US Airways, which involves, inter alia, the
mutual transfer of LGA and DCA slots and U.S.-Brazil frequencies. In Docket OST-
2009-0197, Delta and US Airways propose the contingent transfer of Delta’s Atlanta-Rio
de Janeiro frequencies, and US Airways’ Charlotte-Rio de Janeiro frequencies, which
would create new opportunities usable at Sao Paulo. If that transaction is not
consummated, Delta requests the allocation of five frequencies for Atlanta-Rio de
Janeiro service, which would free Delta’s unrestricted Atlanta-Rio de Janeiro frequencies
for use on the Detroit-Sao Paulo route (while maintaining daily Atlanta-Rio de Janeiro
service).

Quoting mah4546 (Reply 9):Documents are due today. I believe Delta actually did apply from the pool of fourteen. Those five DTW-GRU flights come from the fourteen, conditioned on GRU opening up.

But weren't these 14 new frequencies already excluding GRU?? So basically DL is saying.. hey DOT pls change 2 of our current GRU frequencies from LAX to DTW.. and we would like to reserve 5 new frequencies to GRU.. when it becomes liberated.

Lol.... in the end DL didn't ask for any of the new frequencies and is already trying to be the first in line for future GRU frequencies. hahaha....

Quoting ssides (Reply 3):Is DL trying to capture Brazil-bound traffic from Asia via its DTW hub? To me, this seems like the only logical justification for this route.

The schedule itself - with an early departure out of DTW and an arrival into DTW as late as possible, indicates they are counting on Asia to make the flight work. The drawback is that the sit time at GRU is going to be very long indeed, but it seems DL picked the best choice. For sure, after ATL-GRU and ATL-GIG, this is the route with best potential for them in Brazil.

As this is an application to move LAX-GRU to DTW-GRU, I wonder if any other airline will object.

These frequencies do not exclude GRU. They just are subject to GRU's expansion. Once the Brazilian government says that GRU is no longer restricted, those frequencies will enable the carriers that hold them to fly to GRU. So, what DL is proposing is to have them allocated to DTW-GRU for future use, but to allow other carriers to use them on an interim basis.

Quoting incitatus (Reply 14):The schedule itself - with an early departure out of DTW and an arrival into DTW as late as possible, indicates they are counting on Asia to make the flight work. The drawback is that the sit time at GRU is going to be very long indeed, but it seems DL picked the best choice. For sure, after ATL-GRU and ATL-GIG, this is the route with best potential for them in Brazil.

As this is an application to move LAX-GRU to DTW-GRU, I wonder if any other airline will object.

What is the proposed schedule for DTW-GRU 2 weekly service? Can anyone post it?

Quoting C010T3 (Reply 15):These frequencies do not exclude GRU. They just are subject to GRU's expansion. Once the Brazilian government says that GRU is no longer restricted, those frequencies will enable the carriers that hold them to fly to GRU. So, what DL is proposing is to have them allocated to DTW-GRU for future use, but to allow other carriers to use them on an interim basis.

Oooh ok, it makes sence now. Thanks for clearing that out. Yeah, crazy but very opportune move by DL, assuming they really intend to route their Asia traffic through DTW.

I'm curious to see if AA applies for Delta's LAX-GRU frequencies in order to fly LAX-GRU itself.

This would be similar to what AA did when it applied for Delta's JFK-BOG frequencies in order to fly JFK-BOG.

While I don't think LAX-GRU would be a star performer for AA at all, it could have strong future benefit as AA/JL develop LAX-Japan in the future and it provides an opportunity for AA to grab more un-restricted frequencies.

That being said, under such a scenario, Delta is in the driver's seat and can then apply with DOT to say "never mind, we will use them on LAX-GRU" or it will become a new route case of DL/DTW-GRU vs. AA/LAX-GRU, and DTW-GRU certainly has its merits and could certainly beat AA/LAX-GRU.

I don't expect AA to do it, but who knows, I never expected AA to apply for JFK-BOG, either.

The Manger for Brazil at Delta said they would be asking for ATL-VCP which is why I don't think they are done

Quoting Neo (Reply 12):But weren't these 14 new frequencies already excluding GRU?? So basically DL is saying.. hey DOT pls change 2 of our current GRU frequencies from LAX to DTW.. and we would like to reserve 5 new frequencies to GRU.. when it becomes liberated.

or if you don't let us do the slot swap then give us 5x weekly ATL-GIG so we can then move 5 of the 7 we are using to GIG now to DTW-GRU.

Quoting mah4546 (Reply 22):I'm curious to see if AA applies for Delta's LAX-GRU frequencies in order to fly LAX-GRU itself.

2 weekly flights?

Quoting mah4546 (Reply 22):While I don't think LAX-GRU would be a star performer for AA at all, it could have strong future benefit as AA/JL develop LAX-Japan in the future and it provides an opportunity for AA to grab more un-restricted frequencies.

Which was Delta's whole idea with LAX-GRU.......

Quoting mah4546 (Reply 22):it will become a new route case of DL/DTW-GRU vs. AA/LAX-GRU, and DTW-GRU certainly has its merits and could certainly beat AA/LAX-GRU.

Quoting mah4546 (Reply 22):That being said, under such a scenario, Delta is in the driver's seat and can then apply with DOT to say "never mind, we will use them on LAX-GRU" or it will become a new route case of DL/DTW-GRU vs. AA/LAX-GRU, and DTW-GRU certainly has its merits and could certainly beat AA/LAX-GRU.

I don't expect AA to do it, but who knows, I never expected AA to apply for JFK-BOG, either.

Well they might as well try - either they will (a) succeed in stealing the 2 frequencies (unlikely, IMO) or (b) effectively "force" DL to continue operating what is clearly an unprofitable route.

25 deltal1011man
: Something Delta also says is they are up for the DOT giving them the frequencies but leting other carriers use them till GRU gets mor space. (ie. Del

26 mah4546
: Applications were due today. Delta came out with a statement not long after that saying it was false that Delta was applying for VCP. No, three, taki

27 crAAzy
: After the JL crap, applying for these frequencies is the least AA can do.