Brandon has been groomed for LoW his whole life. I would think his sister spitting in the face of the Storm Lords' liege would be a horrible PR move, especially to become the (future) King's concubine.

Depends alot on what the letter said. He may honestly believe Rhaegar kidnapped her, no matter how it read,cuz he couldn't reconcile his sister would do that to the family intentionally.

I still am hesitant to think she sent it via raven, even though I said that in my post.

quote: Ser Ryman and Black Walder would have none of it and left. Olyvar wanted to stay on as his squire, but Ryman did not allow it. The Greatjon thought they should attack the Freys then and there, but Robb knew that would lead to disaster

someone knew the real truth, and that someone was prolly ole Ned Stark. He kept his mouth shut about way too many things for way too long.

I didn't wanna open up to Robert in the crips, or when Bob asked about his basterd. He just said that's my sister, and that's my business don't ask again. Ned knew the real deal. Lyanna and Rhaeger man and wife. Jon Snow knows nothing

I think Lyanna probably told him after he found her at the Tower of Joy before she asked for her promise.

Afterall it seems that Ned bore nothing but respect for Rhaegar. Thats not exactly the opinion you would expect him to have of a man who he believed to have kidnapped and killed his sister.

I don't think Ned knew before hand though. He would've worked his arse off to prevent a war and as we saw in GOT Ned has no ability to work under the radar. Someone would've noticed and word would've gotten out.

The only reason its been able to be a secret for so long now is because both Ned and Howland Reed holed themselves up in their respective keeps and never left.

If Ned knew the truth there is no way he doesn't work to keep Brandon from going and while he probably wouldn't be capable of succeeding word would've spread like wildfire.

Cotton (before I go off on a tangent) Ned had respect indeed. Didn't he go as far as to think Rhaegar would've made a better king than Robert? I don't know IIRC or not...not said out loud, just inner dialogue somewhere in the book?

Sorry to come outta left field... But I was thinking about the ghost of Winterfell, and trying to put Benjen there. I'm sure the "there must always be a Stark in Winterfell" point has been discussed ad nauseum anyway, but anyone have any other supporting evidence for this? Other than he knew Theon by sight, in spite of his significant physical change, the fact he knew the castle and crypts as well as anyone, and the fact he's unaccounted for(?)

I just can't reconcile the timing of his disappearance. If he left the wall after Ned was arrested would make more sense (like he made the opposite decision Maester Aemon and Jon made)

Plus I like him as Coldhands more.

The need for a Stark in Winterfell statement still haunts me throughout this Bolton occupation...that's my main issue. Maybe that's the point, and why it's occupied.

I'll have to find it, but I'm 99% sure that GRRM refuted the Benjen as Coldhands in an interview at one of the cons recently.

I like him as the Hooded Man. The major argument against that is his vows to the Night's Watch. I contend that something may have happened to him beyond the wall that makes those vows less significant to him (see Jon Snow and his actions before he is stabbed).

At the very least I don't think the Hooded Man is just an insignificant character.

Seems like I remember something killing the Coldhands = Benjen thy. Guess that just leaves...Syrio!

J/k.

Seriously, doesn't the "Stark in Winterfell" thing get to you? First it sounded like a political edict applying to Bran when Robb went to war (Maester Luwin was who said it in book, I think) but there's gotta be more to it.

The children of the forest said that coldhands was killed "many years ago". Benjen was dissappeard about 2 years ago tops. That is a time a frame that would be called "many years" by a race that lives as long as the children. No way Benjen is coldhands.

I think the "Stark in Winterfell" thing is very significant and I think that it is the source of Winterfell's and the whole North's problems. There is no Stark there and until a Stark returns the North will bleed.