Re: This is the Dividing Line on BDF

Originally Posted by stonesoffire

Its my thought that it's iniquity that was found in Lucifer. But, just my thought. Chuck Missler might be one that could of taught on this. We could both check and see if we can find something he taught about the darkness. Two heads are better than one.

Re: This is the Dividing Line on BDF

Originally Posted by stonesoffire

Nobody's bickering Lynn. Discussing. E.G. And I won't go head to head about this. And it's not that important. Grace / works however is a very big deal.

That discussion started with Meg's idea that dark overcomes light. When the origins start with a premise opposite from the bible, it doesn't matter if the discussion is civil. Even kind. It's like discussing how many angels do fit on the head of a pin, and discussing it as a godly topic.

I don't blame demons on many things, but I do notice something dark happens when we get anywhere near talking or meditating about God. Our minds go straight from him to kind-of-talking-God -- I should be doing chores, what did she say to him (or vice versa), gap theory, grace v. works, does he/she follow God in that outfit because it's immodest, which day of the week is the Sabbath, are you righteous (because I sure am), what's God's opinion on angels, are their celestial portals, when is God returning, and basically anything and all things except God himself.

We are like Luke Skywalker -- "All his life has he looked away... to the future, to the horizon. Never his mind on where he was." Always thinking around God but not meditating on God himself.

This is what I mean by heading for the Light. Instead we keep taking off for the darkness. Because without God there is nothing but darkness. And, isn't it time we not-babes-in-Christ start there? If we don't get that, how will the babes ever get it?

And it's hard. Downright impossible without God's light working. But first we have to see there is a problem, before we deal with it. And from what I'm seeing, everyone is busy trying to convince everyone else they aren't the problem. They're the solution. Wrongo! We are the problem. God is the solution.

He's a light in darkness. The only light in the darkness. Can't miss him, unless we stay determined to miss him! And that determination to head for the light requires constant communication with God because... "Ooo, look! Pretty thing over there" is about where our minds naturally always go. We need God to tell us, "No, honey. We're going this way. And stop playing in the poison ivy."

Re: This is the Dividing Line on BDF

No, we are not bickering over it, And we alredy said even if we disagreed, we would not bicker, just discuss..lol

I does scare me she said grace/works, no one is right, that is bordering on a type of universalism, One has to be right, or there is more than one gospel.

Which is better than or worse than the gospel is "Grace, not works?" Or even "Works, not grace?"

No one said no one is right. The gospel is "God. God does all the good. He is the author and finisher." Grace AND works comes from him. Cutting God out of the gospel is a form of fatalism. We're all doomed, whether we want to go for some concrete word like "works" or some far-flung word without meaning if there is no God like "grace."

Grace is not God.

Works is not God.

Meanwhile two sides keep arguing over those two words and kind of fit God in there somewhere.

Re: This is the Dividing Line on BDF

Originally Posted by Depleted

Which is better than or worse than the gospel is "Grace, not works?" Or even "Works, not grace?"

No one said no one is right. The gospel is "God. God does all the good. He is the author and finisher." Grace AND works comes from him. Cutting God out of the gospel is a form of fatalism. We're all doomed, whether we want to go for some concrete word like "works" or some far-flung word without meaning if there is no God like "grace."

Grace is not God.

Works is not God.

Meanwhile two sides keep arguing over those two words and kind of fit God in there somewhere.

this is where we disagree,

Grace is God, it is the embodiment of all God says he is,

what people are arguing is what saves us

is it Grace alone through faith alone in the work of God

Or is it Grace through faith maintained or perfected by our own works?

Or is it Grace through faith maintained or perfected by our own works?

That is what the dividing line is,

And God new that men would twist it, hence PAUL's instruction to the churches of Galatia....

FAITH plus WORKS to finish it = false gospel other than what Paul had preached, double cursed, bewitching and those who buy into to it...foolish.......

How many times have we said it is ALL Jesus and GOD deserves all the glory.....to me it is simple....pushing works points to self....pushing ALL GOD dia Christ point to who exactly......the answer is obvious

Or is it Grace through faith maintained or perfected by our own works?

That is what the dividing line is,

1 John 4.8-8 The one who does not love does not know God, for God is love

God completely loved the first generation of Israelites that died in the wilderness of unbelief. The fact he allowed them to die over the course of 40 years was an act of mercy.....because he relented/repented in killing them instantly....He never extended grace to anyone in the first generation, except for Joshua and Caleb, because they were obedient and had a different spirit on them.

Love is who God is,
Grace is favor or blessing to allow us to be reconciled back to him through the total work of Jesus Christ
Mercy is withholding the punishment we deserve..

of the merciful kindness by which God, exerting his holy influence upon souls, turns them to Christ, keeps, strengthens, increases them in Christian faith, knowledge, affection, and kindles them to the exercise of the Christian virtues

Re: This is the Dividing Line on BDF

Originally Posted by Meggido

1 John 4.8-8 The one who does not love does not know God, for God is love

God completely lovedthe first generation of Israelites that died in the wilderness of unbelief. The fact he allowed them to die over the course of 40 years was an act ofmercy.....because he relented/repented in killing them instantly....He never extended grace to anyone in the first generation, except for Joshua and Caleb, because they were obedient and had a different spirit on them.

Love is who God is,
Grace is favor or blessing to allow us to be reconciled back to him through the total work of Jesus Christ
Mercy is withholding the punishment we deserve..

If you disagree , show us, using scripture that says God is grace....

Try again...they were spared because they BELIEVED what God said about TAKING the land....the other 10 LIED, the PEOPLE listened to the LIES and DID NOT BELIEVE and is exactly why they could not ENTER......most miss the fact that what was to be gained was REST in the land of promise...it had nothing to do with their preservation from the (picture 0f sin and servitude) they had struck the BLOOD, were delivered in the Passover, had the picture of immersion (RED SEA) and were brought right to the very edge of the rest that can be found in a believer by faith....Joshua and Caleb were spared because of FAITH....the story is clear!

Re: This is the Dividing Line on BDF

Originally Posted by dcontroversal

Try again...they were spared because they BELIEVED what God said about TAKING the land....the other 10 LIED, the PEOPLE listened to the LIES and DID NOT BELIEVE and is exactly why they could not ENTER......most miss the fact that what was to be gained was REST in the land of promise...it had nothing to do with their preservation from the (picture 0f sin and servitude) they had struck the BLOOD, were delivered in the Passover, had the picture of immersion (RED SEA) and were brought right to the very edge of the rest that can be found in a believer by faith....Joshua and Caleb were spared because of FAITH....the story is clear!

I do agree it was also Joshua and Caleb's faith...forgot to add that...THANKS

Re: This is the Dividing Line on BDF

Originally Posted by Meggido

1 John 4.8-8 The one who does not love does not know God, for God is love

God completely loved the first generation of Israelites that died in the wilderness of unbelief. The fact he allowed them to die over the course of 40 years was an act of mercy.....because he relented/repented in killing them instantly....He never extended grace to anyone in the first generation, except for Joshua and Caleb, because they were obedient and had a different spirit on them.

Love is who God is,
Grace is favor or blessing to allow us to be reconciled back to him through the total work of Jesus Christ
Mercy is withholding the punishment we deserve..

If you disagree , show us, using scripture that says God is grace....

God showed them grace in the fact he continued to deal with them mercifully, Even though except for the two (joshua and caleb, and you can add moses, who did not get in for one sin. They never had faith in God.

The fact anyone is alive today and even has a chance to come to the knowledge of Christ is based on Grace.

What we deserve is hell. Anything we get above that, is based solely on Gods grace.

Re: This is the Dividing Line on BDF

They got somewhere in their bickering because they knew they weren't really talking about eating pigs. They were talking about God.

You are right, the did not discuss eating pigs, keeping the Sabbath etc because they all kept the law.

We can see in Acts that Paul took the Nazarite vow and he kept the feast days and kept the Torah (instructions from God). The argument of their time was not the law and law keeping but is Jesus the Messiah (unimportant to some, I know). We are now 2000 years down the line. Man made doctrines have infiltrated the church and certain things need to be discussed.

If somebody ever ask you about pigs meat tell him please eat it, but before you do consider the following:

A pig has no sweat glands and his body can't get rid of all of the toxins and poison it takes in. A pig's skin is also thick and as a result the farmers in the Middle East (where they don't eat pig) keep them as farm animals because they eat anything and will even eat wild snakes. Now because of the thick fat layer the pig will not get poisoned by the snake's venom but when you eat away on your peace of meat you will be poisoned by the meat.... mmmmmm YUMMY!!!

Then also, a pig is prone to get skin cancer because of their light skins. The way they get rid of it is to eat the cancer from each others flesh and guess what you get the cancer toxins in your body when you eat it.... NICE that something I want to eat.

Enjoy your pork meat next time you eat it and pray to God that you wont get the same worms that is currently busy eating our Pastor's brothers brain. He is busy dying a slow death as a result of worms eating his brain. Care to guess where he got it from....? mmmmmm nice and juicy pork meat......

Re: This is the Dividing Line on BDF

Originally Posted by Depleted

That discussion started with Meg's idea that dark overcomes light. When the origins start with a premise opposite from the bible, it doesn't matter if the discussion is civil. Even kind. It's like discussing how many angels do fit on the head of a pin, and discussing it as a godly topic.

I don't blame demons on many things, but I do notice something dark happens when we get anywhere near talking or meditating about God. Our minds go straight from him to kind-of-talking-God -- I should be doing chores, what did she say to him (or vice versa), gap theory, grace v. works, does he/she follow God in that outfit because it's immodest, which day of the week is the Sabbath, are you righteous (because I sure am), what's God's opinion on angels, are their celestial portals, when is God returning, and basically anything and all things except God himself.

We are like Luke Skywalker -- "All his life has he looked away... to the future, to the horizon. Never his mind on where he was." Always thinking around God but not meditating on God himself.

This is what I mean by heading for the Light. Instead we keep taking off for the darkness. Because without God there is nothing but darkness. And, isn't it time we not-babes-in-Christ start there? If we don't get that, how will the babes ever get it?

And it's hard. Downright impossible without God's light working. But first we have to see there is a problem, before we deal with it. And from what I'm seeing, everyone is busy trying to convince everyone else they aren't the problem. They're the solution. Wrongo! We are the problem. God is the solution.

He's a light in darkness. The only light in the darkness. Can't miss him, unless we stay determined to miss him! And that determination to head for the light requires constant communication with God because... "Ooo, look! Pretty thing over there" is about where our minds naturally always go. We need God to tell us, "No, honey. We're going this way. And stop playing in the poison ivy."

Maybe that is the dividing line...! Yes, I believe it is.
The dividing line is: those who see they are the problem and those who do not see that they are the problem.