Re: Akio used in Anime Detour anti-harassment poster

I'd say they're probably over-estimating their audience if they think they can pick out Akio-style mindfucks as bystanders and report them, his style really doesn't lean towards more obvious sexual harassment.

But all joking aside, I think it's got its heart and it's humor in the right place, and it's exactly that level, if neither that degree or that method, of creepiness that Akio gets up to. He's a complex guy, and the behavior they're trying to deter is committed by real people, not cartoonish villains worthy only of our hate, sooo… I'd say it balances out nicely.

Re: Akio used in Anime Detour anti-harassment poster

As the biggest Akio fan on the forum, I endorse this product/service.

This is a fantastic example of people having fun with a hard subject to broach, and breaking the ice that forms around people who experience it. He's sexually aggressive, decides what you want for you, and invades the fuck out of your personal space. The context he does it in isn't the point, and I think anyone making such a joke knows that. If he was really interpreted as a terrifying rapist, he wouldn't be appropriate to joke about this way.

Also, seriously, that picture? Seriously. I'd edge away from that guy on a subway.

Akio, you have nice turns of phrase, but your points aren't clear and you have no textual support. I can't give this a passing grade. ~ Professor Arisa Konno, Eng 1001 (Freshman Literature and Composition)

Re: Akio used in Anime Detour anti-harassment poster

I am not a fan of the poster. It seems to hint at older fans as primary suspects for predatory behavior. Being an older male anime fan, I only interact with other people in my age group because of the male predator mentality that is getting more and more prevalent in society. If I decide to hang with the younger crowd it is always males like myself. Of course, I am usually like the big brother of the group.

Re: Akio used in Anime Detour anti-harassment poster

I always thought fangirls who randomly glomped you were the creepy ones and not older guys. I've only been to one con and it was full of nothing but loud smelly fujoshi. Seriously, NOBODY seemed to wear deodorant. Since then I haven't attended one except for RoseCon.

Re: Akio used in Anime Detour anti-harassment poster

zevrem wrote:

What percentage of anime fans will get this reference?

The reference is't so much "Hey, recognize this show!" as it is "Hey, do't be the dude tweaking yer nipples in public, yo!" It's in no way reliant on it being a preexisting character. It's about his expression, state of dress, body language and actions.

My Brain is the Wakaba and Shiori Funtime Hour. With limited commercial interruption.

Re: Akio used in Anime Detour anti-harassment poster

Decrescent Daytripper wrote:

The reference is't so much "Hey, recognize this show!" as it is "Hey, do't be the dude tweaking yer nipples in public, yo!" It's in no way reliant on it being a preexisting character. It's about his expression, state of dress, body language and actions.

And if you recognize him then there's the added bonus of: ''And also don't be the dude who molests people mentally and emotionally cuz it's, ya know...not nice.''

I luhv Akio and I think this poster is hilarious, btw. Presents it's message without making anyone (very) uncomfortable. Would be nice if they made one with a female, say, Ragyo Kiryuuin maybe, just to balance things out, idk

Re: Akio used in Anime Detour anti-harassment poster

Riri-kins wrote:

I always thought fangirls who randomly glomped you were the creepy ones and not older guys. I've only been to one con and it was full of nothing but loud smelly fujoshi. Seriously, NOBODY seemed to wear deodorant. Since then I haven't attended one except for RoseCon.

Snow wrote:

Would be nice if they made one with a female, say, Ragyo Kiryuuin maybe, just to balance things out, idk

I love that anime cons are close enough to gender parity now that it's reasonable to talk about messages worth sending to female congoers. I'm old enough to remember when anime cons were almost as bad as, say, Star Trek conventions, or a Silicon Valley cocktail party. I wonder if we have the yaoi fanbase to thank for that -- enthusiastic fujoshi normalizing anime for girls who may not be fujoshi. I think more women started appearing at cons at right about the time Inuyasha/Sesshoumaru was the hottest thing ever -- but of course there were SKU fangirls well before that.

Anyway, I like the poster. I don't think anyone's going to look at it and say "ew, older men are creepy." It's just "don't be all inappropriate in public, yo." It is, sadly, an appropriate message to expose congoers to -- not unlike ACen's annual "Got Soap?" campaign.

Re: Akio used in Anime Detour anti-harassment poster

purplepolecat wrote:

Ah, so it’s Akio who got featured in a no-harassment poster; not public!harassers like Happosai or Ataru Moroboshi, but stealth!seducer!Akio . . .

Is it so easy to call people out on polite-society-style mindfucks nowadays, let alone reporting them to anime cons organizers?

Unlike many other anime male characters, Akio is not a grab ass in public, nor will you catch him making inappropriate sexual comments/gestures in front of strangers. He works his seduction only on people who’ve known him for a period of time, and are already attracted to his looks, wealth AND cultured mannerisms. And, the other parties in these cases are all eager participants in their interactions. Most importantly, the blatantly inappropriate things -- like all things in the polite society -- will always happen in private.

So, how do con-attendees even "speak up" at seeing an Akio-style "harassment"? How do they even spot it happening, when the potentially incriminating stuff is gonna happen off public view?

Or, am I to assume that the organizers are actually telling people to snoop around private areas like car-interiors and motel rooms looking for some juicy ‘questionable’ activities to report on?

Even supposing an attendee really does that, and comes upon something like this near the con site:Are they then suppose to intrude, and then end up as the creep since these two people - both old enough for such things in the area where it happens - could actually be a couple like their appearances suggests?

Perhaps the organizers assume that no one has ever seen SKU before, and that anime fans will see some Calvin Klein model-type ethnic anime guy on the poster and somehow go “Yuck! Creep ~”. And then what? Are they telling attendees to report topless guys who may or may not be touching his nipples while smiling? Right. I can just imagine actual charges being laid against Mr. Topless once the police gets called in over such a solid definition of harassment.

Seriously though, anime has no shortage of lecher characters who’re well-known for public, blatant sexual harassment. Why skip over them all in favor of a grayer than gray character like Akio if you wanna promote your no-harassment policy? Isn't clarity of message supposed to be a big point in every ad's design?

Re: Akio used in Anime Detour anti-harassment poster

yusaku wrote:

I am not a fan of the poster. It seems to hint at older fans as primary suspects for predatory behavior. Being an older male anime fan, I only interact with other people in my age group because of the male predator mentality that is getting more and more prevalent in society. If I decide to hang with the younger crowd it is always males like myself. Of course, I am usually like the big brother of the group.

I think you're over-reading it. They're not saying "don't be an older dude," they're saying "don't be playing with yourself while you wink wink and raise an eyebrow to the cuties at the con anywhere you can see this poster (which is probably the con floor). Or, jut don't be skeevy sleaze in a nice shirt.

I quit going to raves, for awhile, when I taught high school, because I'd see some of my students there and that felt risky to me, considering I'd been censured at one point for lending some seniors a hairbrush. But part of that was me, too, not quite ready to step away from some aspects of young life. In the years since then, I've been a "stage mother" at my niece's dance recital, while other male family members very much stay away and act like seeing a kid changing tights is going to get them stoned as a predator. We've had sleepovers for my nieces and nephews' friends and very rarely has a parent been seriously concerned if there'll be no woman staying the night. I have dinner with a group of university students, these days, once or twice a week, mostly young women, the occasional male student. Of corse, being bi, I'm just as much "a threat," to the male students as the female, but then, so much is true even if you're not sexually interested in someone, because power dynamics, sadism, etc.

It's been my experience that behavior with people dictates how people see you, more than ever what kind of people you are with. Whether you're hanging with three twenty year-old women or one forty-six year-old guy, if you've got your shirt undone and you're flicking your nip while chewing on their neck... that's what people are going to judge. Being grabby, inappropriate touching, leaning over and breathing into people, w'ev, will drive people around you to suspect there's something sexual going on. Sitting at a table together or singing karaoke in the same room rarely will.

Or, at least, so go my experiences. Yours, of course, may differ, and naturally, the plural of anecdote is not data.

gorgeousshutin wrote:

Ah, so it’s Akio who got featured in a no-harassment poster; not public!harassers like Happosai or Ataru Moroboshi, but stealth!seducer!Akio . . .

Because Ataru is a comedy lecher and about fifteen who never rapes anybody, never tweaks his nipples in public, and doesn't hit on girls half his seeming age. Emphasis on the comedy bit.

Ataru doesn't look like a threat, mainly because the women in Urusei Yatsura can handle him and do.

Akio, on the other hand, isn't a guy anybody can handle. Akio fucks you up and if you regret it later, or even immediately, you'll probably feel it's your fault.

It's not a racist image, it's not about how model-like he looks, it's about how flagrant he's being. If you know the character, so much the better, but considering the Akio car is an extended joke in Kill la Kill, I'm assuming a good amount of anime fans can look at Akio or Akio types and go "hey, somebody call that to catch a predator motherfucker and nobody accept any drinks he's passing out!"

My Brain is the Wakaba and Shiori Funtime Hour. With limited commercial interruption.

Re: Akio used in Anime Detour anti-harassment poster

Decrescent Daytripper wrote:

gorgeousshutin wrote:

Ah, so it’s Akio who got featured in a no-harassment poster; not public!harassers like Happosai or Ataru Moroboshi, but stealth!seducer!Akio . . .

Because Ataru is a comedy lecher and about fifteen who never rapes anybody, never tweaks his nipples in public, and doesn't hit on girls half his seeming age. Emphasis on the comedy bit.

Except Akio never does any of those things in the show itself (he never tweak nipples in pulbic, females go to him by desire, and his physical age is 18-19 with real age 1000+).

Yes, Ataru is comedic, but his behavior of grabbing girls publicly - a reportable crime in real world - is a lot more relevant to the kind of sexual harassment one could find at an anime con than the cultured seduction that Akio does (almost impossible to find in an anime convention of all places).

Akio, on the other hand, isn't a guy anybody can handle. Akio fucks you up and if you regret it later, or even immediately, you'll probably feel it's your fault.

Exactly. Akio's behavior is not something attendees/organizers at a con could "speak up" on cause even if an 'Akio' is there, his behavior would be impossible to define/pinpoint as predatory from a bystander's POV. So why use him as the poster boy? If Ataru is too young (he's certainly not too young to get charged for sexual offenses), the use Happosai or City Hunter or the likes - men over 21 who grab ass & cause problems at public places. Even if you want to use non-comedic male chars who , there are many in anime.

]it's about how flagrant he's being.

If Akio is an openly flagrant character, then yes. But Akio is a stealth seducer. His behavior pattern is not something that a con attendee could point at and scream "Creep!" Using him as the sexual harassment mascot is as 'off' as calling all 'successful seducers' 'non-con rapists' - those terms are simply not the same.

Ataru, and those other male chars I've listed above, are all openly flagrant. They are all legit "creeps" should they appear in real world with their fondling of even strangers. Screen caps of them grabbing ass and whatnot can sent direct message of what con attendees should/could 'speak up' about. Using Akio as con harassment poster boy is plain off, cause he does not display 'outward public behaviors' one could report over.

Re: Akio used in Anime Detour anti-harassment poster

Yes, Ataru is comedic, but

If I were making an anti sexual harassment poster, I wouldn't want a character whose sexual harassment is played for comedy and who is also basically the protagonist and love interest. By selecting a character whose negative attitudes and actions are played for comedy, I'd think you're sending the message that "Don't be this guy even though *winkwink* it's actually okay." There are yards and yards of essays and writeups about how Akio's behavior is explicitly not okay, but while Ataru engages in -arguably- more direct action, he's still seen as a bumbling, loveable loser.

The poster gave me a chuckle, but I'm always a bit ambivalent about these things at cons -I don't know how much they do or don't help, although I haven't been to one in, oh... six or seven years. The landscape was very different then, I think.

Edit:

Screen caps of them grabbing ass and whatnot can sent direct message of what con attendees should/could 'speak up' about. Using Akio as con harassment poster boy is plain off, cause he does not display 'outward public behaviors' one could report over.

I think you'd have scored a point if A) they had used screen caps, and B)They hadn't selected that particular image of Akio. As it is, I do thinks screencaps might have been even more effective than just creepster nipple tweaking.

Last edited by MissMocha (04-05-2014 02:57:37 PM)

The first time you looked at her curves you were hookedAnd the glances you took, took hold of you and demanded that you stayAnd sunk in their teeth, bit your heart and releasedSuch a charge that you need another touch, another taste, another fix

Re: Akio used in Anime Detour anti-harassment poster

I'm no expert, but I'd wager that most harassment at cons is caused by incompetence rather than malice. Young, over-excited guys who don't have much in the way of social skills or experience talking to women, who don't have a good grasp of personal boundaries, and are slow to realize when they are being politely told to get lost. Pretty much the opposite of Akio, who knows to the millimeter how close he can get to a girl before she gets creeped out enough to move away.

I'm not excusing this behavior, but I think the best harassment policies are the ones that give simple, easy to follow guidelines to the potential harasser, without demonizing them, e.g. "You can't ever glomp or otherwise touch someone without explicit consent", or "don't be afraid to approach complete strangers, but if they tell you to go away, you have to go away." You might think that this is obvious, but the con crowd generally is pretty low on social skills (see above, "soap & deodorant").

The downside to demonizing harassers is that then no-one considers that they themselves might unintentionally harass someone.

Re: Akio used in Anime Detour anti-harassment poster

purplepolecat wrote:

I'm no expert, but I'd wager that most harassment at cons is caused by incompetence rather than malice. Young, over-excited guys who don't have much in the way of social skills or experience talking to women, who don't have a good grasp of personal boundaries, and are slow to realize when they are being politely told to get lost. Pretty much the opposite of Akio, who knows to the millimeter how close he can get to a girl before she gets creeped out enough to move away.

I'm not excusing this behavior, but I think the best harassment policies are the ones that give simple, easy to follow guidelines to the potential harasser, without demonizing them, e.g. "You can't ever glomp or otherwise touch someone without explicit consent", or "don't be afraid to approach complete strangers, but if they tell you to go away, you have to go away." You might think that this is obvious, but the con crowd generally is pretty low on social skills (see above, "soap & deodorant").

The downside to demonizing harassers is that then no-one considers that they themselves might unintentionally harass someone.

Re: Akio used in Anime Detour anti-harassment poster

Frankly, I think that the people who selected Akio for the poster might not even be all that familiar with SKU; I think there's a good chance that they just googled 'anime sexual predator' and this particular creep happened to come up on the image search. And since this image depicted an older male who's leering and fondling his nipples in public, they thought, "Perfect!" and went with it.

Re: Akio used in Anime Detour anti-harassment poster

satyreyes wrote:

gorgeousshutin wrote:

Using Akio as con harassment poster boy is plain off, cause he does not display 'outward public behaviors' one could report over.

Shutin, have you looked at the poster we are talking about?

If you're talking about the topless Akio with a hand around his pec in the first post of the thread, then yes. Like I've already said upthread:

me wrote:

Are they telling attendees to report topless guys who may or may not be touching his nipples while smiling? Right. I can just imagine actual charges being laid against Mr. Topless once the police gets called in over such a solid definition of harassment.

Then there's this:

MissMocha wrote:

There are yards and yards of essays and writeups about how Akio's behavior is explicitly not okay,

Akio's behavior is not okay in that he plots high-class, cultured romance with starry-eyed females with intent of using them to serve his purpose.

Akio is a seducer+ manipulator, not a public sexual harasser aka con creep.

Those two terms are neither equal nor interchangeable, because the two's actions are completely different.

The former uses sophisticated words and luxury setting to dazzle girls into throwing themselves at him, the latter grab ass and look up unwilling girl's skirts.

A con creep that people can "speak up" against, in particular, is someone behaving in a definitively 'illegal' manner in public.

That is so not Akio.

MissMocha wrote:

As it is, I do thinks screencaps might have been even more effective than just creepster nipple tweaking.

unless fan-made, I recall no actual Akio scene that could liken him to a creep who'd stoop to harassing girls in a public place like a "con", because that's just not what he is.

If this has to be SKU based, then the closest I can think of is the scene where Movie!Anthy grabbing Movie!Utena then creepily saying "You're so thin . . .", much to Movie!Utena's revulsion.

Not that I think the con organizers will use that case of actual harassment for their ad, of course.

Even if we pass over Ataru, there are numerous famed pervs not played for comedy in Anime. How about the sexual harassment teacher in Bloody Monday? Or the creepy male fan in Perfect Blue?

That Akio poster is the organizers purposely equating a male seducer of willing girls to a public sexual harasser of unwilling girls; they're blatantly playing on certain fans' misandry and using it for humor purpose.

If we're to believe in sexual equality, then that ad is every bit as offensive as a "no-prostitution" ad that features Kozue - one that falsely and purposely equate her promiscuity with her being a prostitute.

Thus why I see problems with it.

crystalwren wrote:

Frankly, I think that the people who selected Akio for the poster might not even be all that familiar with SKU; I think there's a good chance that they just googled 'anime sexual predator' and this particular creep happened to come up on the image search. And since this image depicted an older male who's leering and fondling his nipples in public, they thought, "Perfect!" and went with it.

If that's the case then theirs is just a crime of ignorance. But it feels to me that some willful ignorance (akin to that displayed by certain tumblr sjws) is at work here.

Re: Akio used in Anime Detour anti-harassment poster

Nova wrote:

False dichotomy. Awkwardness is a possible explanation, it's not an acceptable excuse. Attempting to understand the cause of something is not the same as excusing it, but it can inform the way you tackle the problem.

EDIT: after mulling the article over, I think that may have been the point he was trying to make, but he doesn't come right out and say it.

Re: Akio used in Anime Detour anti-harassment poster

gorgeousshutin wrote:

If that's the case then theirs is just a crime of ignorance. But it feels to me that some willful ignorance (akin to that displayed by certain tumblr sjws) is at work here.

There's no crime. There's no ignorance in the direction of what they want to communicate. Look at the image they selected. It doesn't matter where it came from, or who the person behind the image is. It could've been a wholly original character made just for that image. It still screams skeevy sleazy dude who's eyeballing you.

It's the image of the guy you don't want to be standing next to in line on the con floor. The guy you don't want hanging around a booth all day.

I can't imagine anyone putting the poster together thought "Let' make a general use poster that goes into a characters deep backstory and covers all bases of relevance." Whether they know about Akio in detail or not, the image they selected has "creeping bastard" all over it.

You put a comedy panty thief on the re, or Ataru running around town looking at women in their underwear, it's comedy, he'll have his big dumb comedy face in, wide-eyed and drooling slackjawed and... impact lost.

They're not publishing a character biography and getting the details wrong. They're not promoting misandry. It's not some vague ignorant social justice tumblr attack conspiracy.

My Brain is the Wakaba and Shiori Funtime Hour. With limited commercial interruption.

Re: Akio used in Anime Detour anti-harassment poster

gorgeousshutin wrote:

MissMocha wrote:

As it is, I do thinks screencaps might have been even more effective than just creepster nipple tweaking.

unless fan-made, I recall no actual Akio scene that could liken him to a creep who'd stoop to harassing girls in a public place like a "con", because that's just not what he is.

Did you.... did you read what I wrote? I was arguing that IF screencaps had been used, your point would be better made because as you've stated, there is no scene where Akio is unequivocally disgusting, like playing grab ass or something, whereas Happosai or maybe even Rei's Grandfather would be a better source for those actions. I was kinda' coming in on your side there, Shutin. I was also stating that I think a screencap could be better as it would show an action and not just a glance (a creepy as fuck one, albeit). In this instance, I'm reasonably sure that the whole argument is moot, because as we have both pointed out, there's nothing in the show to support those behaviors. (Which, actually, brings up a very interesting aside when you consider how predatory every "romantic" moment is in SKU, and that, on the surface, they play on all the intended romantic hallmarks of shojo animes. There's an analysis in that I think, if anyone cares to go for it. Romance in Shojo as Viewed through An Utena Tinted Lens)

Akio's behavior is not okay in that he plots high-class, cultured romance with starry-eyed females with intent of using them to serve his purpose.

Akio is a seducer+ manipulator, not a public sexual harasser aka con creep.

They are not exclusive. If anything, the "con creep" I fell victim too was much more the former than the latter. While personal experience and anecdotal evidence counts for only so much, I can say from my own experience that the actions you're choosing to refer to as "con creep" happen in a lot of places. Hell, the most recent groping I received was on Disney property, from an older woman. Squeezed my ass. I was pretty pissed. I saw plenty of older men at cons using their age, wisdom, experience, promise of connections or exposure to win over girls. Honestly, probably as many of those as the assgrabby kind.

Those two terms are neither equal nor interchangeable, because the two's actions are completely different.

Both are in it because they view the person they're after as an object. Ultimately, they're the same thing, just differing levels of "good at it" and approach (as an aside, someone who views people as objects, man, I wonder if there are any of those in SKU...).

The former uses sophisticated words and luxury setting to dazzle girls into throwing themselves at him

Kinda' sounding like you idolize him here, dude.

A con creep that people can "speak up" against, in particular, is someone behaving in a definitively 'illegal' manner in public.

So a creep is only a creep in public? That's... no. People can be creeps in a crowded con hall, in an elevator, in a hallway, in a dealer's room, in a room, in a parking lot or garage. There is no limitation on what a creep is, and where they can be a creep. I feel like when you say the above, what you're saying is that the only people who can report creeps are third party. Yeah, it's encouraging people to speak up about gropers, but I think they also want attendees to let them know to speak up when it's happening to them. I wish I had been half as brave when I was 14-19 and attending cons!

I'm not gonna lie Shutin, I think you're polishing astrays on the Titanic, here. You're upset because a particular image was used in a way that you interpret as being wildly out of character with the experience of con creeps. Well, first off, it's not. Second of all... man, you didn't even respond to the comedy argument I made. Here, I'm gonna quote DD, 'cause yeah, he phrased it way better than me:

You put a comedy panty thief on there, or Ataru running around town looking at women in their underwear, it's comedy, he'll have his big dumb comedy face in, wide-eyed and drooling slackjawed and... impact lost.

Man.. DD you posted while I was writing this. I should just abandon ship, but... eh. I wrote it.

Edit:

That Akio poster is the organizers purposely equating a male seducer of willing girls to a public sexual harasser of unwilling girls; they're blatantly playing on certain fans' misandry and using it for humor purpose.

If we're to believe in sexual equality, then that ad is every bit as offensive as a "no-prostitution" ad that features Kozue - one that falsely and purposely equate her promiscuity with her being a prostitute.

AHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHHAHAAH oh my god, the misandry card, really? So, we paint Akio as a vile seducer, and that's... misandry? I don't care if I get banned for that, but man, come on. Really? As far as the prostitution..."argument," there's NO equivalency! Akio being correctly identified as someone who engages in sexually aggressive behavior is in no way the same thing as saying a promiscuous girl is a prostitute. Jesus christ.

Last edited by MissMocha (04-05-2014 07:01:58 PM)

The first time you looked at her curves you were hookedAnd the glances you took, took hold of you and demanded that you stayAnd sunk in their teeth, bit your heart and releasedSuch a charge that you need another touch, another taste, another fix

Re: Akio used in Anime Detour anti-harassment poster

Decrescent Daytripper wrote:

You put a comedy panty thief on the re, or Ataru running around town looking at women in their underwear, it's comedy, he'll have his big dumb comedy face in, wide-eyed and drooling slackjawed and... impact lost.

me up post wrote:

Even if we pass over Ataru, there are numerous famed pervs not played for comedy in Anime. How about the sexual harassment teacher in Bloody Monday? Or the creepy male fan in Perfect Blue?

Re: Akio used in Anime Detour anti-harassment poster

purplepolecat wrote:

Nova wrote:

False dichotomy. Awkwardness is a possible explanation, it's not an acceptable excuse. Attempting to understand the cause of something is not the same as excusing it, but it can inform the way you tackle the problem.

EDIT: after mulling the article over, I think that may have been the point he was trying to make, but he doesn't come right out and say it.

My reading of it is: "Genuine social awkwardness may cause someone to accidentally be creepy, but some people use 'social awkwardness' as an excuse to purposefully do creepy things and that is bad." Basically a case where the victim of something should not have to accept it just because it may have been accidental, and that arguing otherwise is taking away the victim's agency.