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Comment

Comment

Posting in an awesome thread....
Though I don't know if I can get time off from work, I can't help but start looking at accomodations and tickets.
A question that I have in the back of my head is how much of the course will be ground fighting and how much is "stand up" training? Reason I ask is... how do you train ground fighting without training partners? Maybe that's a topic for another thread.

Needless to say, even without having taken an intensive this is an opportunity I really can't pass up!

Comment

Here is some info concerning the Drunken Eight Immortals from Sigung's Q and A:

"The Eight Drunken Immortals refer to eight Taoist gods or immortals, namely Cheong Ko Lou, Hon Chong Lei, Tiet Kwai Li, Lui Choong Perng, Choe Kok Kau, Hon Seong Tze, Ho Seen Ku and Lam Choi Woh. (The names are in Cantonese pronunciation.) One of them, Tiet Kwai Li, happens to be my personal god, who has very kindly helped me and protected me in many ways, for which I will be forever grateful.

This may appear crazy to many people, especially westerners. Tiet Kwai Li lived as a person on earth many hundred years ago. Then, how could he be my personal god? The answer is that Tiet Kwai Li is an immortal. When he was a human many hundred years ago, he devoted himself to Taoist cultivation and succeeded in freeing himself (his spirit) from his mortal body, becoming an immortal in heavenly realm.

Let it be made very clear that I have no intension whatsoever to convince anyone to believe in what I am describing here. If others think I am writing non-sense, that is their business. What I wish to do is to let those who study Taoism or who are interested in metaphysics know of my own personal experience which may be helpful to them in their Taoist or metaphysical pursue. They would at least know that there are persons who have personally talked with immortals. And I categorically state that what I say here is true.

I am certainly not superstitious or gullible. I clearly remember that on seeing many statues of Buddhas and Immortals when I first entered Sifu Ho Fatt Nam's school to learn Shaolin Kungfu, I told myself, "Look, I am here to learn kungfu; I do not want anything to do with religion or metaphysics."

Nevertheless, during the course of my long kungfu training in Sifu Ho Fatt Nam's school or temple, I had many memorable, and privileged, occasions to talk with the Immortal Tiet Kwai Li. How could I talk with the Immortal? Simple! He came down from heaven and entered my sifu's body and spoke through my sifu.

Did my sifu impersonate the Immortal? I could not think of even one reason why my sifu should do it, especially when acting as a medium for an immortal is tremendously tiring and demanding. Numerous events convinced me that if I claimed to be scientific, which dictates making conclusions based on objective evidence, I have to accept that immortals are real.

I also remember that on the first occasion when I talked with the Immortal, I asked him for some advice. At first he refused, saying I was a non-believer and reprimanded me for being arrogant. My senior classmate Ah Heng, who practised Taoist cultivation from my sifu, pledged on my behalf. "He has never even offered a joss stick at the altar," the Immortal told Ah Heng about me.

That was true, and it struck me as to how he or anybody knew this. It would be unthinkable for any person to waste time spying on me to find out whether I offered joss sticks, especially when I went to my sifu's temple at any time I liked and also there were many other people offering joss sticks for prayers.

Of course after that expereince with the Immortal, I never failed to offer joss sticks whenever I attended my training. Interestingly, many years earlier when I practised kungfu from Uncle Righteousness, I was responsible for tidying the altar of the Venerable Chee Seen, the First Patriarch of Southern Shaolin Kungfu, and offering joss sticks for worship every night.

I owed to a great extent my present attainment in kungfu and chi kung to some advice given to me by the Immortal. Once I was at a loss regarding my direction in life, and was considering a few possibilities. The Immortal told me, in his typical poetic expression, "You have a treasure in the house; wherefore do you seek outside?" At first I was not sure what that treasure was. Then it struck me: my sifu was the third-generation successor directly from the southern Shaolin Monastery.

The Drunken Eight Immortals Set is a Taoist kungfu set comprising techniques characteristic of the Eight Immortals. There are many versions of this set. I have not learnt the complete set, but my sifu demonstrated and explained to me the eight characteristic techniques of the Eight Immortals. I am not sure whether my sifu had the complete kungfu set, as I had not seen this set performed in his school.

The eight characteristic techniques are as follows.

Cheong Kok Lou Riding a Donkey in a Reverse Manner. This is a marvellous technique against low kicks and the Tiger-Tail Kick, and against floor fighting.
Hon Chong Lei Waving a Fan. This is an effective counter against middle kicks, often locking the opponent's leg.
The Clutch-Kick of Tiet Kwai Li. This is an inauspicious kick against an opponent's shin or knee while engaging or locking his hands.
Lui Chong Perng Drawing Sword. This is a felling technique, throwing an opponent over the shoulder.
Choe Kok Kou Playing the Clappers. This is a technique locking an opponent's elbow and wrist.
Hon Seong Tze Playing the Flute. This is a gripping technique against an opponent's elbow and arm pit.
Ho Seen Ku Plucking Flowers. This is a technique to break an opponent's wrist.
Lam Choi Woh Carrying a Basket. This is a technique to break an opponent's elbow.
The patterns are executed in a fluid way with agile, deceptive footwork and swerving body movements. An exponent of this set seldom blocks or goes against an opponent's attack, but avoids it or flows with it, then counter-strikes immediately or simultaneously.

Another of my masters, Sifu Choe Hoong Choy of Choe Family Wing Choon, taught the Drunken Eight Immortals Set, but I did not learn it from him. However, the patterns and movements of this Wing Choon Drunken Eight Immortals are quite different from those explained by Sifu Ho Fatt Nam.

Sifu Yeong Cheong and some of my Wing Choon classmates know this set, but I do not know if they are willing to teach it. The Drunken Eight Immortals Set is quite rarely demonstrated in public.

One should not mistake the Drunken Eight Immortals Set with the Drunken Set, which is more popularly practised. The Drunken Eight Immortals Set draws inspiration from the Eight Immortals, whereas the Drunken Set, of which there are many versions, imitate the movements of a drunken mortal. There are also Drunken Lohan Set and Drunken Praying Mantis Set with their numerous versions."

Comment

"I would like to ask about one of the Ten Tigers of Canton, Beggar Su. Would you please elaborate on where he learned his martial art?

— Ray, USA

Answer

His real name was Su Charn. He came from a wealthy family, but squandered away his money. He was not actually a begger but as he roamed the streets non-chalantly drinking wine, people nick-named him "Su Hut Hee" or Beggar Su.

Su Hut Yee should not be confused with another of the Ten Tigers of Guangdong (a province in south China famous for kungfu masters), Su Hak Fu, or Su the Black Tiger. Both were Shaolin masters, and both were expert at the Tiger Style. But Su Hut Yee was remembered by posterity for his Drunken Style whereas Su Hak Fu was remembered as the Patriarch of Black Tiger School.

Su Hut Yee learned Shaolin Kungfu from Chan Fook. Shaolin Wahnam Family members would be happy to know that he was the same Chan Fook who taught Ng Yew Loong, who in turn taught Uncle Righteousness. Therefore the kungfu that Su Hut Yee used and enabled him to be one of the Ten Guangdong Tigers was the same as that we practice.

However there is no Drunken Style in Uncle Righteousness' school. I learned some Drunken Kungfu from Sifu Ho Fatt Nam, but it was different from that of Su Haut Yee. The Drunken Kungfu of Sifu Ho Fatt Nam was from Taoist Kungfu, whereas that of Su Hut Yee was from Hoong Ka.

Question 7

Did he really practice Drunken Boxing? If so, what kind?

Answer

Of course, he did. In fact, Su Hut Yee was so well known for his Drunken Kungfu that some people mistakenly think he was a patriarch of the Drunken Style. Actually he practiced Southern Shaolin, or Hoong Ka Kungfu as many people call it today.

There is no record of from whom Su Hut Yee learned his Drunken Kungfu. I guess that he developed it himself. As he was often in a drunken state, though not actually drunk, he performed his Hoong Ka Kungfu in a drunken way. You may have an idea of what it was like if you perform any one of our Shaolin set in chi flow, paying more attention to the chi flow than to the kungfu forms.

In fact, Drunken Kungfu does not exist as a kungfu style or school by itself, like Hoong Ka, Wing Choon, Praying Mantis, Taijiquan or Baguazhang. It exists as a set in some established styles. Different kungfu styles have different Drunken sets. In other words, the Drunken set in one style, like Hoong Ka, is different from the Drunken set in another style, like Wing Choon.

The Drunken Set of Su Hut Yee was of course from Hoong Ka. The set was not called by any specail name; it was just called Drunken Set, or Chui Kuen in Cantonese. It was reputed that Su Hut Yee taught his Drunken Kungfu to Wong Fei Hoong, but Wong Fei Hoong did not use Drunken Kungfu often in his fights, and as far as I know, it was also not passed down in his lineage.

The Drunken set in Sifu Ho Fatt Nam's lineage was called Drunken Eight Immortals, or Chui Pat Seen in Cantonese. My sifu did not teach me the whole set; he only taught me the main technique and its special feature of each of the Eight Immortals.

There is also a Drunken Eight Immortals Set in Sifu Choe Hoong Choy's Wing Choon lineage. This Drunken Eight Immortals Set is very different from the Drunken Eight Immortal Set of Sifu Ho Fatt Nam. I beleive it was from Choy-Li-Fatt rather than from Wing Choon. The patriarch, Yik Kam, who taught Wing Choon Kungfu to the Choe Family was an accomplished Choy-Li-Fatt master before he learned Wing Choon Kungfu from Leong Yi Tai.

Question 8

Would Sifu please briefly discuss the principles of Drunken Boxing?

Answer

Although these Drunken sets are different, they all have common characteristics that single them out as Drunken Kungfu. The most significant feature, of course, is that the technqies are performed as if the performer is drunk.

The performer is always on the move, never static at one place or in one poise. These drunken-like movements may give the impression that the performer is unstable, which is not true. A good Drunken Kungfu practitioner is both solid and agile at the same time.

Another obvious feature is that the patterns appear to be out of proper form. When you perform a False-Leg Stance, for example, you have to take care that your body does not lean backward as this renders you in a disadvantageous, awkward position. But in Drunken Kungfu, many patterns are performed like this.

Would performing kungfu patterns seemingly out of form render the Drunken Kungfu practitioner in a disadvangeous, awkward position? Yes, it does -- if he remains long enough at this poise for his opponents to exploit the disadvantage. The disadvantage is minimized when the movement is fleeting.

Moreover, the practioner, if he is well trained and not just perfroms Drunken Kungfu for demonstration as it is often the case nowadays, knows the innate weakness as well as knows how to respond accordingly if an opponent exploit the weakness.

Why does the Drunken Kungfu practitioner use awkward poises if he knows of their innate weaknesses? The advantages outweigh the disadvantages. One advantage is deception. Another is speed and expediency. And a third is tricking an opponent. These advantages are also characteristics of Drunken Kungfu.

Another feature, which may not be obvious to many people, is internal force. Indeed many people regard Drunken Kungfu as an exteran art. This is a mistake by convention, like regarding Shaolin Kungu as an external art or regarding Taiji dance as internal.

Without internal force, the effectiveness of Drunken Kungfu for combat is greatly compromised. If one sits on a solid Bow-Arrow Stance and drives a hard punch into an opponent, he can still cause much damage even without internal force. But if he stands gingerly on one leg, bends his body backward and hit an opponent with the knucle of a relaxed index finger, the damage is minimal unless with internal force."

"Then how could chi kung overcome diseases where the cause is unknown or when there is no cure? The question is actually incorrect. The expressions "the cause is unknown" and "there is no cure" are applicable only in the Western medical paradigm. The expressions no longer hold true in the chi kung paradigm. In the chi kung paradigm the cause is known, and there is a cure."

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