Interview with Lincoln Eyre, Correspondent of the American Newspaper The World[3]

Published:
First published in Russian in 1957 in the journal Kommunist No. 15.
Published in English February 21, 1920 in the newspaper The World No. 21368.
Printed from the original newspaper text.
Source:Lenin
Collected Works,
2nd English Printing,
Progress Publishers,
1971,
Moscow,
Volume 42,
pages 175b-180a.
Translated: Bernard Isaacs
Transcription\Markup:D. WaltersPublic Domain:
Lenin Internet Archive
(2003).
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Allies Playing “Chess Game”

“It is hard to see sincerity behind so vague a proposal,
coupled as it seems to be with preparations to attack us afresh through
Poland. At first glance the Supreme Council’s proposition looks plausible
enough-the resumption of commercial relations through the medium of the
Russian co-operatives. But the co-operatives do not any longer exist,
having been assimilated into our Soviet distribution organs. Therefore what
is meant when the Allies talk of dealing with the co-operatives?
Certainly it is not clear.

“Therefore I say that closer examination convinces us
that this Paris decision is simply a move in the Allied chess game the
motives of which are still obscure.”

I asked if he deemed the probability of a Polish offensive serious (it
must be recalled that in Russia the talk was of a drive by the Poles
against the Boisheviki, not vice versa).

“Beyond doubt,” Lenin replied, “Clemenceau and Foch are very, very
serious gentlemen, and the one originated and the other is going to carry
out this offensive scheme. It is a grave menace, of course, but we have
faced graver ones. It does not cause us fear so much as disappointment that
the Allies should still pursue the impossible. For a Polish offensive can
no more settle the Russian problem for them than did Kolchak’s and
Denikin’s. Poland has many troubles of her own, remember. And it is obvious
that she can get no help from any of her neighbours, including Roumania,”

“Yes, that’s true. If peace is a corollary of trade with us, the
Allies cannot avoid it much longer. I have heard that Millerand,
Clemenceau’s successor, expresses willingness to envisage commercial
relations with the Russian people. Perhaps this heralds a change of front
among the French capitalists. But Churchill is still strong in England, and
Lloyd George, who probably wants to do business with us, dare not risk an
open rupture with the political and financial interests supporting the
Churchill policy.”

United States Oppresses Socialists

“It is hard to see clearly what is going on there. Your bankers seem
to fear us more than ever. At any rate, your Government is instituting more
violently repressive measures not only against the socialists but against
the working class in general than any other government, even the
reactionary French. Apparently it is persecuting foreigners. And yet, what
would America be without her foreign workers? They are an absolute
necessity to your economic development.

“Still, some American manufacturers appear to have begun to realise
that making money in Russia is wiser than. making war against Russia, which
is a good sign. We shall need American manufactures- locomotives,
automobiles, etc.-more than those of any other country.”

“It is idle to talk further about them,” Lenin returned
emphatically. “All the world knows that we are prepared to make peace on
terms the fairness of which even the most imperialistic capitalists could
not dispute. We have reiterated and reiterated our desire for peace, our
need for peace and our readiness to give foreign capital the most generous
concessions and guarantees. But we do not propose to be strangled to death
for the sake of peace.

“I know of no reason why a socialistic commonwealth like ours cannot
do business indefinitely with capitalistic countries. We don’t mind taking
their capitalistic locomotives and farming machinery, so why should they
mind taking our socialistic wheat, flax and platinum. Socialistic corn
tastes the same as any other corn, does it not? Of course, they will have
to have business relations with the dreadful Bolsheviks-that is, the Soviet
Government. But it should not be harder for American steel manufacturers,
for instance, to deal with the Soviets than it was for them to deal with
Entente governments in their war-time munition deals.”

Europe Dependent on Russia

“That is why this talk of reopening trade with Russia through
co-operatives seems to us insincere, or at least, obscure-a move in a game
of chess rather than a frank, straightforward proposition that would be
immediately grasped and acted upon. Moreover, if the Supreme Council really
means to lift the blockade, why doesn’t it tell us of its intentions? We
are without official word from Paris. What little we know is derived from
newspaper despatches picked up by our wireless.

“The statesmen of the Entente and the United States do not seem to
understand that Russia’s present economic distress is simply a part of the
world’s economic distress. Until the economic problem is faced from a world
standpoint and not merely from the standpoint of certain nations or group
of nations, a solution is impossible. Without Russia, Europe cannot get on
her feet. And with Europe prostrate, America’s position becomes
critical. What good is America’s wealth if she cannot buy with it that
which she needs?
America cannot eat or wear the gold she has accumulated, can she? She can’t
trade profitably, that is, on a basis that will be of real value to her,
with Europe until Europe is able to give her the things she wants in
exchange for that which she has to give. And Europe cannot give her those
things until she is on her feet economically.”

World Needs Russian Goods

“In Russia we have wheat, flax, platinum, potash and many minerals of
which the whole world stands in desperate need. The world must come to us
for them in the end, Bolshevism or no Bolshevism. There are signs that a
realisation of this truth is gradually awakening. But meanwhile not only
Russia but all Europe is going to pieces, and the Supreme Council still
indulges in
tergiversation.[1]
Russia can be saved from utter ruin and Europe
too, but it must he done soon and quickly. And the Supreme Council is so
slow, so very slow. In fact, it has already been dissolved, I believe, in
favour of a Council of Ambassadors, leaving nothing settled and with only a
League of Nations which is nonexistent, still-born, to take its place. How
can the League of Nations possibly come to life without the United States
to give it backbone!”

I inquired as to whether the Soviet Government was satisfied with the
military situation.

“Very much so,” Lenin replied promptly. “The only symptoms of
further military aggression against us are those I spoke of in Poland. If
Poland embarks on such an adventure there will be more suffering on both
sides, more lives needlessly sacrificed. But even Foch could not give the
Poles a victory. They could not defeat our Red Army even if Churchill
himself fought with them.”

Here Lenin threw back his head and laughed grimly. Then he went on in a
graver vein:

“We can he crushed, of course, by any one of the big Allied Powers if
they can send their own armies against us. But that they dare not do. The
extraordinary paradox is that weak as Russia is compared with the Allies’
boundless
resources she has not only been able to shatter every armed force,
including British, American and French troops that they have managed to
send against her, but to win diplomatic and moral victories as well over
the cordon sanitaire countries. Finland refused to fight against us. We
have peace with Estonia, and peace with
Serbia[2]
and
Lithuania[4] is at hand. Despite material inducements offered to and
sinister threats made against these small countries by the Entente, they
preferred to establish pacific relations with us.”

Internal Situation Hopeful

“This assuredly demonstrates the tremendous moral force we hold. The
Baltic states, our nearest neighbours, appreciate that we alone have no
designs against their independence and well-being.”

“It is critical but hopeful. With spring the food shortage will be
overcome to the extent at least of saving the cities from famine. There
will be sufficient fuel then too. The reconstruction period is under way,
thanks to the Red Army’s stupendous performances. Now parts of that army
are transformed into armies of labour, an extraordinary phenomenon only
possible in a country struggling toward a high ideal. Certainly it could
not be done in capitalist countries. We have sacrificed everything to
victory over our armed antagonists in the past; and now we shall turn all
our strength to economic rehabilitation. It will take years, but we shall
win out in the end.”

“When do you think Communism will be complete in Russia?” The
question was a poser, I thought, but Lenin replied immediately:

“We mean to electrify our entire industrial system through power
stations in the Urals and elsewhere. Our engineers tell us it will take ten
years. When the electrification is accomplished it will be the first
important stage on the road to the communistic administration of public
economic life. All our industries will receive their motive power from a
common source, capable of supplying them all adequately. This will
eliminate wasteful competition in the quest of fuel, and place
manufacturing enterprise on a sound economic footing, without which we
cannot hope to achieve a full measure of interchange of essential products
in accordance with Communist principles.

“Incidentally, in three years we expect to have 50,000,000
incandescent lamps burning in Russia. There are 70,000,000 in the United
States, I believe, but in a land where electricity is in its infancy more
than two-thirds of that number is a very high figure to
achieve. Electrification is to my mind the most momentous of the great
tasks that confront us.”

Scores Socialist Leaders

At the close of our talk Lenin delivered himself, not for publication,
however, of some cutting criticism of certain Socialist leaders in Europe
and America which revealed his lack of faith in the ability or even desire
of these gentry to promote world revolution effectively. He evidently
feels that Bolshevism will come to pass in spite of, rather than because
of, the “official” chieftains of Socialism.

Notes

[2]This is a mistake on the part of the newspaper. Serbia was not at war
with Soviet Russia. This obviously refers to Latvia.—Ed.

[3]This interview was given by Lenin in the middle of February 1920, at a
time when Soviet Russia, having gained a peaceful respite, was planning the
country’s economic rehabilitation and reconstruction, and when the Soviet
Government embarked on a broad programme for establishing diplomatic and
commercial relations with the capitalist countries. Lincoln Eyre of The
World was sent to Russia to obtain an interview from Lenin, and was
received by him in the company of cameraman Victor Kubes. The interview was
conducted in English, first in Lenin’s private office, then at his rooms in
the Kremlin. It lasted an hour and touched on questions of topical
interest. Lenin’s interview was published in The World and reprinted by
many newspapers in Western Europe and America.

[4]The Peace Treaty between the R.S.F.S.R. and Lithuania was signed in
Moscow on July 12, 1920. The Peace Treaty between the R.S.F.S.R. and Latvia
was signed at Riga on August 11, 1920.