For Putin, there’s never been a better time to rebuild the empire

A big part of the problem President Obama faces in responding to Russian President Putin’s increasingly violence in Ukraine and beyond is that the U.S. does not have a functioning federal government. To be sure, the majority of foreign policy remains in the hands of the Executive branch, but the old saw about “politics stopping at the water’s edge” is no longer operative.

Today’s Republican party openly uses the language of secession, treason, and incitement to coup.

In my opinion, much of Obama’s fecklessness is self-inflicted. But on the other hand, the GOP gladly undercuts him at every turn — which then unavoidably makes him weaker internationally. Through their constant obstructionism, the Republicans have also ensured that the U.S. will never be seen as a reliable negotiating partner.

Putin seems pretty clearly to be looking to reconstitute the former Soviet, now Russian empire, starting with the most strategically significant territories. Europe and the U.S. are in disarray. Whether this is getting into the old “LIHOP” or “MIHOP” territory (the old acronyms associated with 9/11 conspiracy theory truthers and their constant arguments over whether the Cheney administration LET it happen on purpose or MADE it happen) is beside the point. Who benefits from atrocities and unrest in eastern Europe? Russia. Who will have opportunities to expand their ‘sphere of influence’ through intervention, occupation, and intimidation? Russia.

At this point, I don’t even think we could count on the NATO treaty to mean much if Putin decided to do to Estonia what he did in Crimea. A common defense treaty isn’t worth the paper its written on if the nations involved won’t or don’t want to back up the promises.

Back in the 1980s, when KAL 007 was shot down, the Democrats didn’t contradict their president, even as they were in the opposition in general. They didn’t undercut him. They didn’t immediately insist that everything Reagan said or did was 100% wrong.

That’s not the GOP today. They not only oppose every last thing Obama and the Dems say and do, they yell it loudly enough to make sure the entire world hears it. Or to put it another way, if this was 1941 and Pearl Harbor had just happened, the Republicans wouldn’t vote to declare war, but rather, they’d immediately convene impeachment hearings against FDR. Political opportunism overrides everything else for the GOP.

As commenter The_Fixer points out, the United States isn’t united on anything these days. And all Europe seems to care about anymore is deciding which of their poorer countries is ripe for more bankster plundering in the form of imposed austerity measures.

For a would-be imperialist like Putin, there’s probably never been a better time to rebuild the empire.

Becca Morn
Published professional writer and poet, Becca had a three decade career in technical writing and consulting before selling off most of her possessions in 2006 to go live at an ashram in India for 3 years. She loves literature (especially science fiction), technology and science, progressive politics, cool electronic gadgets, and perfecting Hatch green chile recipes. Fortunately for this last, Becca and her wife currently live in New Mexico. @BeccaMorn

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“At this point, I don’t even think we could count on the NATO treaty to mean much if Putin decided to do to Estonia what he did in Crimea.”

It is unfathomable to me how you could be so cavalier in besmirching the honor of NATO member nations to live up to their treaty obligations. This is profoundly insulting.

Hopefully Putin is smarter than that and doesn’t share your BS stance. Otherwise we will really get WWIII.

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silas1898

Some Americans claimed the exact same thing when the US Navy shot down the Iranian airbus in 1988. “A missile stuffed with bodies by those dastardly Iranians, the attack thwarted by our glorious defenders of freedom.”

The Navy then used a prototype of the Zimmerman “They threatened me” defense and mostly wiggled out of it, all while defending oil tankers for Saddam Hussein. The US later grudgingly acknowledged they screwed up.

Badgerite

I know. Seriously. Hard to miss that.

Badgerite

I know. Seems when the facts are not compliant, a “look over there” is a go to tactic.

Badgerite

What you advocate for is no consequences to flow to Russia or Putin for having shot down a commercial airliner filled with citizens of many countries.
Shooting down an airliner is not an act of peace. It is an act of war.
You are defending the people who did it and arguing they are somehow not to blame and somehow have a peaceful intent. Which it is clear from their actions with respect to this downed airliner, they do not.

FLL

We will bury you! (by banging my shoe on the table)

I decided that my link to the chicken-clucking video below was insensitive. In an effort to be nicer, I’ve helpfully discovered what must be the Holy Grail sought be Ford Prefect, Bill Perdue et al: Khrushchev’s shoe, which he used to bang on the table in front of him at the United Nations in 1960. What provoked Khrushchev’s shoe-banging temper tantrum were the following remarks from the Filipino delegate to the UN:

It is our view that the declaration proposed by the Soviet Union should cover the inalienable right to independence not only of the peoples and territories which yet remain under the rule of Western colonial powers, but also of the people of Eastern Europe and elsewhere which have been deprived of the free exercise of their civil and political rights, which have been swallowed up, so to speak, by the Soviet Union.

Why on earth would working people take a stand for Obama and the banksters he sold himself to? The US, and the Obama regime is entirely to blame.

Bill_Perdue

Your anti-Russian, anti-socialist and anti-Soviet credentials are beyond reproach. Really, they are. After all you showed the rancidly chauvinist BK commercial not once but twice to make sure we got the picture. I’m convinced. You have contempt for Russians and their revolutionary past.

Why do you ask about Afghanistan an Hungary? I’m a leftist and we leftists oppose both Stalinism and capitalism for pretty much the same reasons.

The question of how dangerous life in the US is depends on factors like class, gender, sexuality and above all race. Denial of that is a rejection of reality. But that’s not the question here. The question is who is responsible for the violence in Ukraine and there is only one fact based answer – it’s the Obama regime with a little help from Merkel and NATO.

The zionist bunkerstadt is a mostly European colony in Palestine that in it’s death agony partly because it’s infested with rabid anti-Arab and anti-African racists and anti-gay bigots and party because it’s a plaything of the US, the Pentagon’s military base of last resort. And partly because it’s a state composed of brigands and mass murderers. Please find some statement by leftists claiming that American allies like the Saudis or the mad ayatollahs of Iran get a pass. I don’t think the US should help HAMAS. I think the US should get out of the region and quit committing or encouraging genocide so the banksters can steal or control resources. Your complaint about my support of HAMAS is ludicrous. The left doesn’t support islamists but Obama does support the sunni royal Saudis, who run the Taliban, and the islamist who run the Emirates.

I have no favorites in terms of the Obama and Putin regimes – both are rightist, anti-worker regimes. Neither has any value. At the same time I won’t join in any attempt to excuse the crimes of the Obama regime.

None of the US attacks on Iraq by Bush1, by Bill Clinton who murdered 500,000 children or by Bush2 with the support of Hillary Clinton. Like Vietnam, Iraq was a war rabidly pursued by both right wing parties, Democrat and Republican. The attack on Afghanistan was totally unjustified. It’s resulted in more of what the US is famous for – the mass murder of civilians. You’re barking up the wrong tree.

I am happy to be part of a movement whose goal is to defang American empire builders like Obama and the banksters they serve and end their role as the main enemy of the people of the world. I and others will continue to press for an International War Crimes Tribunal to investigate the war crimes of the Bush’s the Clintons and Obama.

And if you look at countries like Greece, even though there was a ton of noise and speculation in the press on it, there has never been a serious movement within the country to leave the Eurozone. Spain is much the same way. The only groups seriously pushing for it are minority parties who have never had much political power. Those in power seem to believe that the long term benefit is still better than taking their chances going it alone. Ukraine is proving that going alone, trying to walk a line between east and west wasn’t really the best choice. In doing so ultimately they weakened their position, and left themselves without any real friends – ripe for exploitation. I highly doubt any EU bankers would be occupying their territory and shooting down civilian airliners.

Bill_Perdue

If you mean the resolution, I agree with it. The US is to blame.

Bill_Perdue

The entire blame for all the causalities in the civil and class warfare erupting lies with the US when the Obama regime sponsored a fascist putsch in Kiev just as the entire blame for all the causalities on both sides of the Vietnam and Iraq wars lies with LBJ and Nixon, the Bush’s and Obama.

I’m sorry, but your response is pretty much incoherent. You are the one promoting conflict, so tagging me as “pro-war” is projection. Your inner Republican is showing nicely. I guess some old habits die hard.

Um, LOL:

Was WWII bad because the GOP supported America’s efforts? It’s a logical fallacy that I don’t buy.

I hadn’t realized that was even a concern! In any case, that’s one of the funniest strawmen I’ve read in a while that wasn’t edgy satire. Joseph Heller would love that one.

The Soviet references are too cute by half. Again, hanging out one’s McCarthyite shingle is interesting, if wholly predictable. You seem to be using the old reactionary trope that pacifism causes wars. Some variation of Der Dolchstosslegende?

All I really want is for members of the pro-war contingent to explain why they want a war with Russia and how they expect it to go. Is a nuclear exchange okay with you? Because that will always be on the menu with this chosen enemy. That’s what it means to go to war with another nuclear power. We, after all, are an empire in decline and that also makes us even more dangerous, due to our growing willingness to do the unthinkable, like sponsoring genocide in Gaza as we bleat about the few dictators we actually DON’T like. Add in all our various policy failures around the world and it puts us in an increasingly bad position. Since bad decision making is the norm, why would anyone trust current leadership to ever prevent a worsening disaster?

The harder the US pushes this, the more we undermine our positions with our alleged friends in Europe. That so few in the States seem to get that is also disturbing. What is our desired political outcome in Europe then?

If the only response to valid (and logical) policy questions is, “That smacks of a latent pro-Soviet, nay Stalinist mindset of the war-mongering pacifists on the Left,” then satire itself is rendered useless. Forget 1984, we’re living Brazil.

Look, I didn’t expect to change anyone’s mind. I’m old enough to know better. Rationality went out the window back in February it ain’t comin’ back. I think I made my points and that’s enough for me.

I appreciate your response in this case, because it says a lot more than you probably intended. That much has proven edifying. Thanks.

FLL

John made a comment below about some on the left who admire the Soviets, and yet the comment is a springboard for discussion of a strange, unexplained phenomena. John’s comment reads as follows:

“I realize there’s a thing among some on the far left to lionize the Soviet Union, and thus their Russian successors…”

John is accurate in noting that some on the “left” have transferred their admiration from the Soviet Union to the current Russian Federation. And here we run up against a mystery. The Soviet Union was marxist. The current Russian Federation is hyper-capitalist with just about the lowest corporate tax rate in the world, topped only by some of the Persian Gulf emirates. Could someone explain this phenomena to me? Oh, I’m sorry. You didn’t hear me?

I said Could someone explain this phenomena to me? And no, I’m not going to stop asking.

Ford Prefect

LOL. Up is Down. Left is Right. Etc.

One is a war monger when one advocates for war. Advocating against war, especially a senseless one, is the opposite of that. Surely a lawyer AND PR professional understands that much? Okay, maybe not.

FLL

From your comment:

“Now, we don’t have any proof of anything yet on this current shootdown…

That is a flat-out lie. There is ample proof in the form of Internet text, Twitter text, audio recordings and firsthand observations by AP reporters showing that the plane was shot down by Russian-backed separatists. If you lie, I’ll call you a liar.

FLL

From Ford Prefect’s comment below:

Lastly, I’d like the active members of the War Party to come clean about what all this hysteria is for.

A rather inaccurate example of name-calling. Do the wishes of the Ukrainian people count for anything? Anything at all? The world saw the Ukrainian uprising against Viktor Yanukovych unfold during the months of November through February. Those tens of thousands and hundreds of Ukrainians taking to the streets were not American agents, nor do I think were they the victims of American brainwashing centers that had been set up throughout Kiev and other Ukrainian cities. None of the commenters who claim that the American government is responsible for Yanukovych’s ouster has yet explained how the mass uprising that began in November was the result of actions by the American government. Would someone like to explain that? I said, would someone like to explain that? And no, I’m not going to stop asking.

How about the Ukraine’s presidential election in May? How do Ford Prefect et al explain that? Petro Poroshenko campaigned by promising to defend Ukraine’s territorial integrity, and when he won a landslide election with 54.7 per in a field of 21 candidates, he began to do just that. Are Putin’s fans on this board claiming that the American government somehow exercised mind control over millions of Ukrainian voters. Would someone like to explain this to me? I said, would someone like to explain this to me? And no, I’m not going to stop asking.

I’m not a fan of big bankers. I wish we had the much higher corporate tax rate that we did in the 1950s. However, there has been some very odd commentary on these threads that liken EU bankers to an occupying army. That’s crazy. The EU is a voluntary organization. Countries with weaker economies such as Greece, Spain, Portugal and Ireland are free to leave, and there is a democratic mechanism for them to do that if there population’s are in support of leaving the EU. Compare that with a real occupying army, the Red Army, which occupied eastern Europe for 46 years. In addition, anyone who tried to emigrate from those countries by crossing the border into Western Europe was shot on sight by border guards installed in a series of towers that stretched the entire length of the aptly named Iron Curtain. EU bankers are not an occupying army. The false equivalency on some of these threads is reaching comic (or tragic) proportions.

The fact that that GOP has a warmongering wing that tends to control the party is hardly an indictment of war. I get that there’s a wing of the Democratic party that is pacificist (and in some cases pro-Soviet and thus pro-Russian — though the two aren’t necessarily always linked), but I think it’s a logical conundrum to suggest that A) Republicans are bad, so B) anything the Republicans endorse is bad. Was WWII bad because the GOP supported America’s efforts? It’s a logical fallacy that I don’t buy.

And I’d submit that you run the risk of being just as pro-war as the Republicans, in that you would rather have Ameica sit it out and let Russia (and the Soviets perhaps) terrorize and kill millions, without our persky interference. You’re still making a judgment that inflences war and affects the lives of millions.

Dead is dead, whether you’re killed by American bombs, or by Americans refusing to come to your aid when they have the ability to save you. I’m not convinced either is any more moral than the other.

Hi, were you around in the 1900s? Heard of Aghanistan? The Hungarian Uprising? Prague Spring? The famine in Ukraine? If we want to talk about war dead, I’m more than happy to pile ours against the Soviets’, and Russia’s, any day any time.

I realize there’s a thing among some on the far left to lionize the Soviet Union, and thus their Russian successors, but even before the Internet we had books, and television, and a memory. No one is going to convince anyone that the Soviet Union then or Russia today is a nicer, less dangerous, less deadly place than the United States.

No one is saying the US is perfect. But I’ll pit our imperfection against the Soviets’ and the Russians’ any day. The suggestion that the Russians and the Soviets were nice guys compared to us, is, IMHO, sickening.

PS A few historical points. The invasion of Iraq, part 1, was entirely justified, and was hardly America’s fault. 2. Israel is hardly the only player in the Middle East to have unclean hands. 3. Our invasion of Afghanistan was entirely justified, whether it was a wise move in afterthought.

I think some on the left like to pretend that foreign policy is easy, that being the only real world superpower is easy. At the same time you blast the US for getting involved in Afghanistan, you blast the US for refusing to get involved on behalf of Hamas. I would suggest that your complaint isn’t that the US intervenes, it’s that the US doesn’t always intervene aginst the people you’d like us to intervene against (Israel comes to mind). And in that, I think you’re no different than those on the right who cherry pick which “dictators” they don’t like.

Badgerite

No I don’t. Your ‘sympathies’ are rather transparent. This was a Malaysian airliner flying over the territory at some 33,000 feet. A commercial airliner filled with citizens of many countries en route to Kuala Lumpur. The rocket launcher that was seen and recorded in that area fled back across the border into Russia. The faction supported by Russia that controls that area has , for days,
blocked access to the site of international investigators and bodies are left to rot in the fields. You want to see the ‘war monger’ , look in the mirror.

Badgerite

Uh huh. One side is blocking the international investigators from the site of the crash. Not the actions of an innocent party.

Ford Prefect

Very well said.

Our culture is so jaded now we recognize resistance to OUR hegemonic aggression as “terrorism.” Starting wars on the border of another nuclear power without even considering the terrible possibilities that offers is the height of cultural rot. We no longer care enough about the future to ensure we even have one. The same indifference to global warming may make those worries moot in a nuclear winter.

Bill_Perdue

““We’re going to risk nuclear war so we can have another cold war that will imprison you and yes, we’re just dumb enough to sleepwalk into a nuclear exchange, but we really don’t care. Just check out our breathless propaganda. There’s not one second of rational thought behind it, but we just can’t stop ourselves.” Very well put.

The rulers of the Roman empire had a similar policy of endless wars and brigandage and they eventually created so much hatred that they we overwhelmed. The problem is that so were civilians in the Empire.

Then the Germans tried it and millions of German civilians paid the price.

Bill_Perdue

The US promoted and paid for a fascist putsch to insure vast profits for the banksters, who own the Democrat and Republican parties.

All the violence since is the direct and sole responsibly of the Obama regime. American bankers and Russian gangster capitalists are going to duke it out in the Ukraine but what neither counted on is that the civil war is turning into class war between fascists and workers groups. That’s one of the reasons that Putin is getting shy. He doesn’t want class war thinking to spread to his bailiwick.

“Resolution on Ukraine and Russia (adopted unanimously by the Delegates Meeting of the San Francisco Labor Council, AFL-CIO, on Monday, May 12, 2014)

Whereas the United States and other Western countries have intervened in the internal affairs of Ukraine, and behind the uprising are millions of dollars of our tax money used in the covert campaign to destabilize and topple the democratically elected former regime, and

Whereas this money comes from the federal budget where it competes directly with funds for human needs programs that directly benefit education and other services and public sector employees as well as students and their families, and

Whereas the Western Powers have historically attempted encirclement and the weakening of Russia by incorporating Eastern European countries into NATO, and

Whereas intervention by Western powers and threats of war are contrary to the interests of the Ukrainian, Russian, and American people and undermine peace and stability in the region, and

Whereas the new Ukrainian government, backed by the United States and European powers, has a fascist-minded element that threatens much of the population, and recalls racist, anti-Semitic and xenophobic views that go against our fundamental values, and

Whereas fascist movements historically have sought to destroy the organized labor movement, and

Whereas the region is now a tinder box easily ignited, and

Whereas war in Europe will have horrific consequences to the world economy, to the human race and the planet, and

Whereas a peace oriented, productive economy serves not only the needs of all faculty and students, union members and all workers, but also all strata of society, except war-profiteers and the super-rich,

Therefore be it Resolved that the San Francisco Labor Council urges the U.S. government to use diplomacy with Russia and Ukraine to work out a peaceful resolution of the brewing conflict, one that respects the sovereignty, democratic right to self-determination, and security of all the peoples of Eastern Europe, and

Be it Further Resolved that the San Francisco Labor Council urge the U.S. government to stop all military aid to the new Ukraine government, and

Be it Finally Resolved that the San Francisco Labor Council will send copies of this resolution to Bay Area Congressional Representatives, Senators Barbara Boxer and Dianne Feinstein, Secretary of State John Kerry, Senator John McCain, Senator Mitch McConnell, President Barack Obama, and the national AFL-CIO. “

Indigo

The Twentieth Century Détente that made it possible to survive the Cold War without cultural fugue and self destruction is winding down. As it winds down, American contempt for whatever is unfamiliar is evidence of one of those pop expressions about consciousness, that getting old is inevitable, growing up is optional. We have a technological culture on our hands that cannot support the nation’s infrastructure, let alone understand the subtle nuances of compassion. This isn’t cutural fugue, it’s cultural senescence. Putin’s adventurism is just another expression of his over-extended male menopause. Our American policy collapse is much worse than that, it’s the signature piece of, pardon the expression, Faded Glory.

Bill_Perdue

Not really.

Bill_Perdue

For most of the world, including everyone from Morocco to Indonesia and from Mexico to Argentina, the problems created by Putin and the imperial ambitions of United Russia are minor compared to those of Obama. Putin is remarkably like, but nowhere near as bad as any of the Democrat and Republican contemporaries. United Russian, in terms of external affairs is mainly a regional problem, suppressing nationalist uprising in the Caucasus and playing an eye for an eye with the US backed bankster regime in Ukraine.

There are many similarities in internal policies as well. Both Obama and Putin are both constructing police states, creating economic problems by allowing banksters and their Russian counterparts, gangster capitalists, to gut the standard of living of working people. And in terms of LGBT equality United Russia is moving right while here we’ve made modest gains in spite of Obama.

The Bush’s, the Clintons and Obama are all mass murderers and war mongers in the tradition of LBJ and Nixon. Bush1 started the Gulf wars. Bill Clinton murdered half a million Iraqi children. Bush2 invaded and occupied Iraq, killing over a million and invaded Afghanistan. Obama gave the zionists white phosphorous, a WMD, which they proceeded to use on civilians in Gaza while they burned a boy alive and continued the US war against Iraq (which Obama has rekindled) and in Afghanistan.

The left opposes Democrats, Republicans and United Russia and all enemies of working people.

helenjsmith

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Ford Prefect

Look, all your comments since D-Day in Kiev have been consistently in the War Party Kamp. Russia was already in Crimea. You know that, but by all means continue with this middle school bullshit of yours.

Who benefits? The Putsch Regime benefits. Even a one-dimensional hack like you understands that much. The Neo-Cons in DC who want to set the world on fire also benefit. You’re one of them, so you should know. The arms manufacturers also benefit–maybe you work for one of them. Profits! Militarists everywhere benefit, because World War Three is really popular with every militarist sect on the planet. Goooaaaal!

As for blocking investigators, that’s a valid point. They may be guilty. But this, “If he’s running he’s VC” argument got old a long time ago, so don’t bother. Reality-based people will focus on the evidence (and there is forensic radar evidence not in rebel control that is being ignored at the moment and why aren’t Ukrainian ATC authorities producing the tapes on that? All that shit is recorded for precisely these occasions.) before assumptions. There is also the question as to why IOAC, FAA etc. allowed air traffic in a war zone in which both sides possess serious SAM capabilities and in which there was heavy SAM activity over the last few weeks. There have been hundreds of flights in that area just recently. Why wasn’t the flight path changed out of concern for safety?

Care to answer that one? Remember that IOAC, FAA, etc. banned flights over Crimea for purely political reasons a couple months ago. But major SAM activity (including the shootdown of an AN-26 only a few days ago) in Eastern Ukraine didn’t warrant attention from aviation authorities? Huh? Anyone home?

Yeah, it’s probably just incompetence, but it still fucks up the hysterical War Party narrative currently being pushed, doesn’t it?

Badgerite

Remind me when it was that Ukraine “invaded” Russia or Crimea?. That would have been kind of hard since at the time that Russian troops started appearing in Crimea ( not dressed as Russian troops ) Crimea was part of Ukraine..
Putin simply lost control of Kiev politically. And his response was military. His natural inclination.
As to who benefits from this tragedy, I would suggest no one does.
But there is one side that is blocking investigators from the site, and about the only reason to do that is to find and destroy (hide) evidence of guilt.

Ford Prefect

I was in Europe at the time. One of the media outrages there was domestic US media coverage showing disdain for the victims and sympathy for the captain of the Vincennes. The effort to keep the domestic US audience in the dark did a lot to promote anti-Americanism in Europe. For a couple weeks in Italy, I became “Canadian,” after being physically threatened on the streets of Naples by a dozen hooligans. Months later when I got home, hardly anyone had any idea what the rest of the world thought about that.

This nation is still completely clueless about what the world thinks about anything.

Badgerite

If memory serves that was a story line on one of the recent Sherlock Holmes series?
They are not even being original in their conspiracy theories.

Indigo

Actually Enlightenment Freemasons but details, details . . . .

Indigo

I’m not sure it’s crumbling, it’s evolving. And the butterfly crawling out of this caterpillar looks a lot like . . . a police state! Oh, boy! Just what we don’t really need.

I remember the Airbus tragedy clearly. I still had some contacts within the Navy and They told the sailors that all of the passengers were already dead when the plane was shot down, that they had to have been because the bodies immediately floated to the surface. Usually, bodies will sink first, and then only float up after the gases of decomposition build up. Sound familiar? It was claimed that Iran loaded bodies in the plane and directed it into our path knowing we would
shoot it down which the Vincennes did. Different year , same B.S.

Ford Prefect

It’s been oddly interesting to see “progressives” fully embrace the fever dream mindset of the most Right-Wing Neo-Cons in the country. Here we are, subjects of the American Empire(tm), blissfully ignoring our own mass violence (Obama’s drones have killed more than 10 MH17’s worth of civilians, but that doesn’t register for some reason) in order to focus on demonizing an entire nation because Hitler.

When the US Navy shot down an Iranian Airbus with 290 souls on board, how did we react? We gave those sailors medals. Our media felt really sorry, not for those souls bobbing in the Persian Gulf and their families at home… no, we felt sorry for the people who shot the plane down and many in the media even suggested the Iranians got themselves shot down on purpose! That’s how caring we are, as a people.

Now, we don’t have any proof of anything yet on this current shootdown, but that’s not going to stop us from jumping to pre-ordained conclusions based on the earnest testimony of right-wing political hacks whose inability to lie (ever) leaves their credibility in pristine condition. MSNBC rather stupidly thrust forth the meme (and I’m not exaggerating at all for satirical effect, as much as I wish I was), “The Ukrainians have Russian missiles and the rebels have Russian missiles, so no matter who fired the missiles, we blame Russia.” Okay then! Thankfully, this obviates the need to recognize that while the rebels may very well have done it, the ones who really benefit from it is the putsch regime in Kiev. AND they even have missile batteries under the control of genuine old school Nazis!

If you want to say, “Putin is Hitler because Empire,” I’ll accept it at face value, because if nothing else, it sounds rather funny coming from supporters of a far more violently hypocritical empire. It might even have the benefit of being true on one level or several. But if you wish to be taken seriously, you might want to include the fact that Crimea belonged to Russia for centuries and even though they have a treaty (I’m sure most of you know what those are) granting basing rights, the US wanted to turn Sevastopol into a NATO base. Just ask John McCain or Victoria Nuland. They’ll happily confirm it for you AND the latter still works for the Obama Administration!

Basically, if Mexico invades Texas and we stupidly get it back from them, is the US engaged in expansionism? Or are we just stupidly getting back that which we should have kissed off in the first place?

Lastly, I’d like the active members of the War Party to come clean about what all this hysteria is for. Being Americans, we need wars and more wars. Most Americans aren’t really too hot on all this war stuff, but folks in DC are addicted to wargasms. We’ve mostly stuck to destroying smaller countries without nuclear weapons because they can’t nuke us and we can just walk away after we’ve killed a few hundred thousand people and no one is the wiser.

Russia, on the other hand, can nuke us. So, is the War Party saying, “Nuclear war is winnable and we want it to happen.”? Or is it saying, “We’re going to risk nuclear war so we can have another cold war that will imprison you and yes, we’re just dumb enough to sleepwalk into a nuclear exchange, but we really don’t care. Just check out our breathless propaganda. There’s not one second of rational thought behind it, but we just can’t stop ourselves.”

The way I see it, when erstwhile “progressives” can jump on the right-wing demon parade for the regular Two Minutes Hate, maybe (just maybe), we’re trying to make Dr. Strangelove look like a documentary. Is it the water? Background radiation from nuclear testing? Maybe is the fracking chemicals. Or are we just morons?

emjayay

Don’t forget God ordained America also, through our totally fundamentalist evangelical Christian founders, only it was the One True one.

emjayay

Good point. Yes, the glorious introduction of a modern well ordered democracy into the Middle East has had fabulous consequences In so very many ways.

emjayay

It is somewhat hilarious that the dirtbag nutjobs of the right have touted Putin as a better leader than Obama. Not that they ever admit to any slightly incorrect thinking in the face of reality or anything.

emjayay

Dick Cheney had the CIA plant explosives thoughout the plane and plant missle fragments in it too and anyone who saw a missile was hallucinating or something, which is all proven by the fact that the plane blew up all at once in different places and it is mathematically impossible for a plane to burn and fall down that fast from one hit.

Mike_in_the_Tundra

Oh gee, Becca. That’s pretty depressing. I just wish I didn’t agree with you. There’s too much hubris in this country.

Sometimes I imagine it must’ve felt the same way for the Romans. Oh-so-certain they were the greatest nation there ever was or ever would be, ordained by the gods themselves to rule over the civilized world… eventually and inevitably to fail and to fall.

I see it in now the present-day stories about towns and cities going bankrupt, and those county roads, formerly paved, now being ground up into gravel and dirt because it’s cheaper. I see it in every last thing America can no longer do — but nevertheless its citizens claim to be the apex nation there ever was and ever will be.

We can’t forget that the U.S. has been an imperial power for a long time, doing things to advance its own agenda of feeding our corporate citizens™. Other people in the world know about these things in spite of the fact that most Americans are either blind to them, or willfully ignore them.

We’ve also boxed ourselves into a corner by lying to the world about Iraq’s WMDs. No one is going to believe anything an American administration says for a very long time. Think that only applies to Republicans? The rest of the world doesn’t see things that way (and Democratic opposition to that fiasco was weak at best so that doesn’t fly even here). Sorry but fucked ourselves. Yes, I know some here, like me, opposed that and scoffed at Colin Powell’s powerpoint presentation of crap in front of the UN, but is anyone in the US aware of the large minorities in France and Germany that SUPPORTED the US invasion? No. And that’s my point. We fucked up and screwed over our own allies in the process. No one trusts us now and I can’t think of a single reason why they should.

So what do you suggest that he should have done? Considering that those of us who have been sounding the alarm about Putin for some time now are summarily dismissed by the culture at large, even so-called liberal msnbc, I don’t see any public support for anything more than what has already been tried.

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. If such an outrageous thing were true, the officials would want that to be independently verified by some impartial party. There’s no reason anyone should just take their word for such an outlandish and improbably story.

And now Russia’s former intelligence officer Igor Girkin / Strelkov is claiming that the bodies on KH17 were already dead.

A top pro-Russia rebel commander in eastern Ukraine has given a bizarre version of events surrounding the Malaysian jetliner crash — suggesting many of the victims may have died days before the plane took off.

The pro-rebel website Russkaya Vesna on Friday quoted Igor Girkin as saying he was told by people at the crash site that “a significant number of the bodies weren’t fresh,” adding that he was told they were drained of blood and reeked of decomposition.

Rather convenient, the fact these bodies are reportedly being shipped off to Russia, and international investigators denied access to the crash site…

The_Fixer

As much as I agree that Obama has certainly helped to make himself weak (he had plenty of help from Republicans, though), I wonder what he could have done about the annexing of Crimea by Russia?

Not trying to be flip, sarcastic or anything like that – it’s an honest question. One has to explore the options here.

Should he have put together a coalition of nations or used direct U.S. military involvement without support from allies to respond? Well, we’ve boxed ourselves into a corner with our nuclear legacy. We wouldn’t dare do that as we could very well see the threat of nukes being used. If conventional warfare, it would be two superpowers pissing on each other until one of them ran out of piss – which would be an awfully long time, not to mention an awful lot of lives, money and the wheel spinning while our other human problems get neglected.

Economic boycott? Well, in order to do that, we’d need for the rest of the world to cooperate. Certain parts of the world are reliant upon Russia for their energy needs. Who is going to take up the slack, and how do they do it? Russia makes a great deal from oil and related energy products. What else do they export that we can live without? Vodka? Borscht? Lada cars? Vacuum tubes?

In the end, it appears all we have is a combination of very limited amount of boycotting, shame and some multi-country diplomatic/PR initiatives. Yeah, mostly words. And we musn’t forget that there are some countries who think what Russia did was perfectly OK,
and won’t help, only possibly hinder, such initiatives.

Were Obama’s words not good enough or strong enough? Probably not. But I really wonder if he was able to say anything that would keep the Russians from doing this.

FLL

Yup. Between now and the end of 2016 is Putin’s window of opportunity if he wants to take advantage of a divided United States. Of course, the Republicans might be shooting themselves in the foot electorally if they attack a sitting president who is confronting a foreign aggressor.

idi spise

the republicans may undercut the president, the author is correct, in criticizing them, but Obama from the very beginning has been undercutting himself: First when he responded to the occupation of Crimea with three weak statments: 1) We are not going to war for this 2) The world is a messy place, you know, and Russia is not the only country that does not do what America thinks is right (paraphrased summary) 3) some sanctions are in order 4) a shrug and body language showing submissivness and weakness.

After that speak I felt like somebody needed to smack him on the face and tell him: “wake up, Barack! come to your senses! you are the Presidend of the Only Superpower in the World, and we have a new Hitler raising his ugly head.

If you act submissively, you will get abused, that is the truth, and letting Russia own Ukraine after all we said and did, is equivalent to submitting to the new Russian dictator PUtin, and that is unacceptable.

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