Pregnant & Addicted!

Totally Married Podcast

Episode 139

Elizabeth discusses her recent revelation about a little substance that she is clearly addicted to (and it’s not even chocolate!) before she and Andy give their unqualified advice to listener questions regarding differences in a marriage regarding the desire for children, how to get your partner to give more positive feedback between the sheets, whether or not to call a friend out on being a constant spoil sport, whether or not to live with another couple, how to deal with a nightmare Step Mom who constantly guilts you, and a cliffhanger of a question which will be addressed in the next episode – you’re not going to want to miss it. Enjoy!

I wanted to say a few things to the couple that is considering moving in with another couple. I am currently in the same postiton. We moved in with my boyfriends best friend after they started working together. We all got along great before hand and when he started dating one of my good friends we thought it would be even better. We are all between 23 and 25.

Well here we are 6 months later and I am thankful that we are almost done.

It’s not terrible. No one fights or anything but it is difficult. It’s an added stress on your relationship that you just dont need. We struggle with space and figuring out meals and who’s job it is to take care of the dogs. They have one and we have one so it seems like it would be simple…but no. We have very different styles of living. They are couch potatoes and we are pretty active so it causes some stress when we do want to use the living room but they are posted up.

I think in your case it would be better to find other ways of saving money. You’re not missing out on anything by not living with other people. It’s an experience but if you’ve lived in the dorms then you already got most of it.
And for that other couple, if they have never lived together and have never had a dog, this first year will be a lot of growing pains. It’s hard getting used to living with your partner and adding another couple would make it even harder.

It’s hard to have an arguement with an audience, and it’s uncomfortable to have to pretend things don’t bother you when they do. If it’s not completely necessary for financial reasons, then i would really advise against it. Its not worth the stress.

That’s what I thought too…it’s hard ENOUGH getting used to living with your partner! I can’t imagine living with my fiance and another couple, ack.

Writer-inner, you’re really not missing out on much by not living with roommates. I’ve had a few good roommate experiences, but I’ve had just as many bad experiences as good ones, so if your luck is like mine, you have a 50/50 chance of bad vs. good. (I know that’s not really mathematically sound, but just go with it.) And when it’s bad, it’s reeeeeally bad, because you live with the person and in order to escape them, you have to LEAVE YOUR HOUSE. It can get gnarly, believe me.

I also loved this episode! I’m looking forward to hearing all about Baby Oprah’s arrival…soon!

I felt bad when I heard you talk about how emotional you were in response to recent comments. I wrote a (constructively) critical comment on the last episode of Totally Mommy and I was worried about that as I was writing it. It’s totally understandable for you to retreat from reading comments right now. How do you feel about readers weighing in about the personal things you’ve talked about on the show? You ask people to weigh on in the writer-inners questions, but perhaps we shouldn’t assume that we can also weigh in on your and Andy’s decisions.

There were a few topics in this episode I wanted to respond to:

-If you’re trying to wean yourself off of coffee, you have to do it very gradually. I gave up coffee for about 2 months and I had to replace it with black tea. I started by drinking enough black tea to have the same amount of caffeine as coffee has, and then lowered it somewhat. The goal had been to eventually cut down on black tea, but I ended up deciding to return to coffee (not out of desperation, but I just decided it wasn’t worth it to me to give it up). Something that Theresa talked about on One Bad Mother was timing coffee drinking and breastfeeding, so if you start drinking coffee right as you start breastfeeding, it doesn’t have time to get into the baby’s system. I had never heard about that before, but that’s something to look into. I also just did a brief google search and people say that as long as you limit yourself to about 16oz of coffee a day, it shouldn’t affect your baby. If you decide to cut out coffee or limit it, one thing to try is Teeccino Herbal Coffee. I bought it once and I quite liked it. You prepare it just like coffee and it actually feels really similar in taste and the drinking experience, but it’s made of grains and herbs instead of coffee beans, so no caffeine. You can do half Teeccino and half coffee and see how you like it. I’ve seen it in co-ops and Whole Foods, but it’s probably in more traditional grocery stores too.

-For the writer-inner who isn’t sure what to do about the fact that her husband isn’t sure if he wants to have kids: If he decides that he absolutely doesn’t want to have kids and she decides this is a dealbreaker, then it does make sense to leave then and not ‘waste her time’. But if he’s still unsure, I think it’s best to stick it out and be patient for a while. They sound like they have a great marriage so it’s totally worth it to see whether it will turn out that her husband does want to have kids (or perhaps she will decide she doesn’t want them after all).

-Living with another couple is not fun. I’ve lived with many different roommates including couples and (in my experience) it is not like being on a constant double date. Couples want privacy, especially when they just move in and start building their nest together. If the writer-inner really thinks she’ll regret not doing it, sure, try it. But it doesn’t sound like it’ll work out well. I do think that maintaining close friendships with other couples is worth it! My husband and I do lots of ‘double dates’ (really just hanging out with friends who are married), but it’s always nice to return to our home just the two of us afterward.

-As for the cliffhanger, I’m looking forward to seeing what you two think about this. I personally think that there’s no reason to assume that it could never work out with the writer-inner’s girlfriend. The fact that she is a prostitute doesn’t say anything bad about her. She may be forced to do it by economic circumstance, which (in my mind) isn’t very different from being forced to do any other job to pay the bills. Or she may be empowered and has decided to have a job as a sex worker because she enjoys it and knows she is good at it. If the writer-inner sees prostitution as shameful and doesn’t want to date her because of her involvement in it, then he should also remember that he went to a prostitute as well. Dan Savage talks about something similar to this on his podcast, but about how people will have a one-night stand and then not see the other person as relationship material because they had a one-night stand. His point is that the person calling in *also* participated in that one-night stand, but often sees that as different (e.g. thinking “well I know that I don’t usually have one night stands, but I’m sure that this person I slept with is constantly sleeping around”). If the writer-inner really does see his girlfriend having a career/job as a prostitute as a dealbreaker, then he should talk to her about this. Is she willing to give up the job, without resenting him? (She may not be. There are many sex workers who love their job. Here’s a great episode of the podcast I Like You where the hosts interview a woman who works as a prostitute and explains very well her position on the topic: http://ilikeyoupodcast.com/2011/05/51-money-up-front/ ) Is he able to support her financially and emotionally until she is able to find another job? Is there a compromise that they can reach about what she continues to do as a prostitute and what she won’t do with other people and will save only for him (e.g. no kissing other people)? These are all things to consider. An amazing relationship can absolutely change your life, and I think that if he found someone who makes him happy, he should try to see if he can make it work rather than just assume it has an inevitable end point.

Quick comment on you notifying people of the birth. Andy is in the right path. Asking nobody to post anything for 5 days is kind of unrealistic. I sent out a pic to close family and a few friends, then a few minutes later posted it on FB. I also kept my wife’s phone handy but after we just took it all in and ignored the phones/internet unless we had down time. Something to consider is that for us while in the hospital we had more time/ability to handle it in the hospital as when we got home and on our own it got busier. I know you’re planned birth is different. But I don’t know many people who could keep it off FB for long. The people who did get told right away had been told multiple times to not post it.

On how/when to announce Baby Oprah…I say don’t say anything to anyone except very close family for a few days. Friends and others really should understand your position and the likelihood that it would leak into social media. It’s your very personal experience so I would hope everyone would support your decision and respect your desire for privacy.

One reason to consider just announcing it is that people may worry that something bad happened if they don’t hear anything. I think most people have about 20 people who they are extremely close to (e.g. family and the friends who you see very frequently) but then about 50 more people who they have also formed deep connections to over the years who will be genuinely wondering if everything went okay. I know that if I knew someone’s approximate delivery date and didn’t hear anything, I would worry (though I’m a worrier). Perhaps you could post a single photo or an announcement on Facebook, and then just don’t worry about logging on again until you’re good and ready. When you do finally decide to go on Facebook again, you’ll have tons of well-wishes waiting for you. And unlike emails or calls, when people comment on Facebook, they usually aren’t expecting a response.

I have to say I LOVED the ending! I was laughing so hard this episode. You both are hilarious!

Elizabeth, to wean yourself off caffeinated coffee you may want to try 1/2 caff for a week or so, then decaf. That should help with any headaches and mood swings associated with the caffeine withdrawal. I made the switch to decaf about a year ago. It really helped! Good luck!

For the couple considering living with another couple: don’t do it. That much has been covered already.

Alternative idea: get an apartment in the same building as some of your other friends. Either the main other couple, or some of your single friends. This way you can have all the late-night hangouts you want, but still have an apartment all your own and you won’t have to share any personal or refrigerator space.

My daughter had a similar circumstance with moving in with friends. Here is how it panned out:

Within three months the girlfriend in the other couple moved out when they broke up. The remaining boyfriend couldn’t handle (now) his half of the rent by himself so he managed to get out of the lease somehow thereby leaving my daughter and her boyfriend holding the bag for the rest of the lease.

Oh, and this once close couple now never speak to each other.

Just like you never sell a car to a friend. You should never live with another couple who are also your friends. Recipe for disaster.

I wanted to offer some thoughts on the recent episode, if they’re any help at all:

– To the lady re whether she and her husband have kids:
It really does sound like he just wants to spend some time in his new skin, which is actually really cool. Unless he’s said that he thinks his whole life has been a lie, it seems quite likely that he’ll probably come back to wanting children, but in his own time on his own terms – I’m not sure having a family is a matter of religion and spirituality so much as a more basic desire? If that’s the case, then to me it seems very healthy, and I would take heart that your husband respects and cares enough about you to be honest about his feelings on this, rather than just going along with whatever you want and maybe resenting you and maybe your kids in the future, because he didn’t take time to come to the decision for himself. DO’t forget that since he’s made a big step in rethinking his whole philosophy of life, he’s back to square one in getting to know himself and you’re now the one with a massive head-start. You’re still young, give it a little time – but know your cut-off point and reassess/readdress the issue when you get there. You never know, it might be that his spiritual reawakening takes you both on a journey that makes you stronger and better prepared as a couple to raise a family a little later than you anticipated. And all of this would be on a foundation of really desirable honesty. It sounds like you have a great relationship – don’t let your boat be rocked too soon

– To the writer inner re living with couples
I was a student for quite a long time, and lived with all kinds of house mates. My last shared flat was with by best friend and her fella, me and my fella, and two other (single) house mates, we were all in our early 20’s by then – it was WAY TO SMALL for all of us. Sure it’s good fun in some respects – I definitely don’t think that living in a mixed house with other couples necessarily means break-ups and emotional/physical unfaithfulness. But what I will say is that it was a real relief when we got our own place, it’s the everyday mechanics of living with friends that get’s boring when you’re a little older – different lifestyles/jobs can really wear you down. It’s much easier to get up and go off to work (or whatever) and know that the house will be exactly as you left it, and that you don’t have to switch on and be sociable if you don’t want to (and therefore don’t have to shut yourself away in your room for some space and peace). My suggestion would be to get your own place, but make sure you live near your friends. That way you can all enjoy each-other’s company when you’re all up for it, and then go back to your cosy homes when you’ve had enough. It’s basically the the same, but without all the bullshit of who’s turn it is to do the washing up and why so-and-so spends so long in the bathroom

Elizabeth and Andy: I listen to a lot of podcasts, and the whole Totally Laime Series is still my favourite by a long way. I’m sure that Elizabeth will be the pioneer of career podcasting and all that goes along with it. I hope that’s a compliment to you – it’s intended as one. Keep keeping it real!

1. Is there any way to use the Amazon thing for non-US Amazon? I use Amazon.ca quite a bit and would love to support you guys.

2. Re. the taking the credit thing. It’s possible the best friend doesn’t realize how obnoxious and hurtful the gloating thing is. She might think it’s just this funny thing that is an inside joke among them. The writer-inner should definitely let her friend and the husband know to stop gloating. However, as for the fact of sharing early, it is a pretty small matter and not worth so much emotional energy.

NO Kids = DEAL BREAKER I wanted to share my experience of this. I was married for 5 years (with him for 10 years) and he announced that he didn’t want children. We had agreed we would have children once we had bought a house. The day after we bought the house he told me that he really didn’t want kids but didn’t know how to tell me. We talked about it. He stood strong on his decision. We are now divorced. This was an absolute deal breaker for me. I moved on, found the MAN OF MY DREAMS. I am married have 2 amazingly handsom little boys (2 and 9 months) and I am living the happiest moments of my life. I have no regrets at all, I am a true beleive all things happen for a reason. Don’t waist time if he doesn’t want children, move on. Being a Mom is the best thing I have EVER done with my life. My children are my everything. They bring me so so so so so much joy. Best of luck to the writer inner who is struggling with this battle.

I just wanted to say to the lady who’s husband is questioning kids, I went through the same thing. my husband at the time and I had talked prior to marriage about kids. agreed we both wanted them, discussed about it in marriage class with our pastor that we wanted them, and agreed on a 2-5yr plan for having our first. I was married to him for 5 years and when I brought up the subject of having kids again after a couple years of marriage he told me he really didn’t want kids, but might in another 2-5 years. I decided that was a deal breaker for me, and we decided to go different ways because I wasn’t ok with him not knowing, and only having a small chance of him changing his mind. Its been 2 years since that happened, and I have since met an extremely wonderful man and we now have a 6month old son who is the light of my life. Im so happy I made the choice to part ways with my ex-husband, because it opened the doors for something more wonderful in my life, and I wouldn’t take any of it back.

I am so in love with your podcasts and will head over to iTunes after this, but I actually just wanted to make a comment on the predicted birth weight of baby Oprah. I know you’ve already heard it, but they are so often wrong on the birth weight. That said, I work for a natural foods company that supports a lot of very cool research at Oregon Health and Science University (OHSU) regarding the first 1000 days of life (that’s conception to 2-1/2). I’m not sure if the studies have been published yet, but we get to hear about the studies each year and they have found that babies with a birth weight around 9 lbs will be (statistically) the healthiest adults. I wish I could point out an article for you, but as the mom of a very big baby (11 lbs!!!) who actually falls outside of the “ideal” zone for this health benefit, I thought you might be interested to know. All we hear about is tiny babies and everyone (rightly so) wants a little 6 lb baby to make birth easier. It is fascinating to me that the birth weight can play such an important role in whether your child will develop heart disease and other chronic conditions as an adult. So celebrate that 8 lber! Also, if she doesn’t end up being that big, don’t fret, I’m sure she’s going to be a beautiful and healthy adult. (Side note: my husband and I had a similar situation as you and Andy with wanting kids, then not wanting them. I’m so glad we decided to do it. I don’t think it would have been a deal-breaker for me, but I’m pretty sure it would have been for my husband. I am so glad that I decided to have one. It’s the best thing I’ve ever done.)

For the issue of friend breaking news to get in first, can the listener not say something to the brother about it? Without making it a big deal, just hey so-and-so got in first what a big mouth Maybe he can then say to the friend “hey here’s our big news but we haven’t told listener yet so don’t say anything we want to call her next!” Keeping it light still but setting it straight.. If she still does it then that’s messed up and deserves an actual talking to! If she stops then maybe she was less aware of it that you’re thinking.

STEALING THUNDER: my cousin announced the arrival of our highly anticipated (10 days late) baby’s birth. A closer family
member was EFFFFFING LIVID she found out from her via Facebook. My mum had been with the cousin at the time I called to make the announcement. Our joy was recked by my wounded relative demanding answers & apologies as to why it went down like this. I left my cousin in charge of apologies and tried to shake it all off but even 3.5 years later I’m pissed our news was hijacked and drama was dumped on me at a lovely time in life. All parties should have apologized to us IF anyone deserved an apology as far as I’m concerned.

I’m the writer in-er about living with another couple. I was actually initially shocked that Andy and Elizabeth suggested not to! We actually all 4 discussed it and we’re totally ready to do it, but the guy in the other couple wouldn’t compromise. He lives in his parents condo rent free until November and isn’t willing to leave that for June when everyone else needs to move so it isn’t happening. Which also means his gf will be moving in with different people for a year now. I don’t think that guy is ready. The more I think about it, the more I’m glad we’ll still just have our place.

I really do like the idea of living in the same complex though! Maybe that can be our goal. Thanks everyone!