If this is your first visit, be sure to
check out the FAQ by clicking the
link above. You may have to register
before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages,
select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.

I think this should be purchased to support his efforts. Saying so, however, I would not recommend purchasing the entire Shobogenzo to the beginner (although it is nice to support Tanahashi's Sensei's effort). Many key portions of the Shobogenzo by Tanahashi can be found in his previous shorter books like "Moon In A Dewdrop" and "Enlightenment Unfolds".

Also, other full Shobogenzo Translations are available (including by Nishijima Roshi and Chodo Cross) online, or portions by other folks. I wrote a bit about comparing (comparing the incomparable) Shobogenzo translations here ...

On my wishlist now, thanks!
I have been considering buying the German translaton of the Shobogenzo though.
Now I can't decide - has any of the German folks here read the German version? http://amzn.to/YgGUr5
(available as an ebook as well, which would be a plus for me...)

Also, wanted to let you guys know...you can order direct from Shambhala, and they had a coupon on the website for 30% off ONLY until Feb 14. Actually, I could not find the coupon number, or code number, so I called the toll free number, asked the customer service rep about it, and they still gave me the $30 discount, bringing the price before shipping to $70.

On my wishlist now, thanks!
I have been considering buying the German translaton of the Shobogenzo though.
Now I can't decide - has any of the German folks here read the German version? http://amzn.to/YgGUr5
(available as an ebook as well, which would be a plus for me...)

As far as I know the book you refer to, Timo, is a reissue of an "old" translation (which not must be a bad thing of course). Once in the late 80s early 90s the Theseus Verlag started a 3 Volume translation of Shobogenzo; however after volume 2 they stopped as there was to few demand. Later on Angkor Verlag issues Volume 3 and a while ago put these 3 into one Volume (both print as as well as eBook). Let me say that I much prefer the current 4 Volume issue from Kristkeitz Verlag, reading it one to one against the english version I feel its way more accurate. Its translated by two dharma heirs of Nishijima (and the master himself). I would also say that it sounds ( ... feels, tastes ) more Dogen alike while the Theseus Shobogenzo is much adjusted to German language and looses feel and spirit. I still consult the Theseus one at times as it has a simpler language and is easier to get. Thats just my opinion of course._()_
Myoku

Seimyo, I felt the same way. I am a book freak, love the smell and feel of real, physical paper books. But, my wife bought me a Kindle for Christmas this year and it has been amazing. It really reads like a book, not at all like a computer screen. I am reading even more now than in the past, and I have always been a voracious reader. It has also been kinder on my wife as I can sit in bed and read while she sleeps, with no lights on, and I have no eye strain. I can literally carry hundreds of books with me anywhere I go and read what I want, not to mention instantly get almost anything I want to read. It has been the best gift I have ever received.

Neika / Ian Adams

寧 Nei - Peaceful/Courteous
火 Ka - Fire

Look for Buddha outside your own mind, and Buddha becomes the devil. --Dogen

I'm very interested to read this translation. I have been to this point studying a Dana supported PDF translation by Rev. Hubert Nearman, O.B.C distributed by shasta abbey press. It seems a very good translation to me but I have never really had the opportunity to compare. Oh and I have to agree Neika, I love physical books when I'm intent on studying but 1200 + pages is a whole lot of book.

I'm very interested to read this translation. I have been to this point studying a Dana supported PDF translation by Rev. Hubert Nearman, O.B.C distributed by shasta abbey press. It seems a very good translation to me but I have never really had the opportunity to compare. Oh and I have to agree Neika, I love physical books when I'm intent on studying but 1200 + pages is a whole lot of book.

Neika / Ian Adams

寧 Nei - Peaceful/Courteous
火 Ka - Fire

Look for Buddha outside your own mind, and Buddha becomes the devil. --Dogen

I'm very interested to read this translation. I have been to this point studying a Dana supported PDF translation by Rev. Hubert Nearman, O.B.C distributed by shasta abbey press. It seems a very good translation to me but I have never really had the opportunity to compare. Oh and I have to agree Neika, I love physical books when I'm intent on studying but 1200 + pages is a whole lot of book.

Here is what I usually post on the various translations when it comes up ...

---------------

Actually, there are now several complete and partial Shobogenzo available online, plus a wonderful new complete translation in print.

Personally, I think the translation you linked to needs to be taken with some caution (I will say why below), although all the translations have their strengths and weaknesses. In fact, when I have read or talked about Shobogenzo, I have often looked at two or more translations simultaneously to see how the various translators have approached Dogen's poetry and word play (he was a great word gamester). Looking at a couple of translations at once can help triangulate the many dimensions in his worlds and words.

First, available online, the most complete list of the various Shobogenzo online is here ...

To my taste, the edition by Shasta Abbey can be too worshipful and "Biblical" in tone, often with the flavor of the Book of Common Prayer of King James filled with "Thou" and "Our Lord" references to Buddha in keeping with the rather Churchy flavor of the OBC Lineage. However, it is masterful too.http://www.thezensite.com/ZenTeachin..._Complete.html

Okay, which is "best" or, better said, what are some of the strengths and weaknesses of each?

The Shasta Abbey version by Rev. Hubert Nearman does not particularly ring my bell. I find it too flowery and reverential, possibly due to the flavor of that lineage. Others may find it suits their tastes however. Their founder was an incredible woman, but taken to inner voices and visions and speaking as an oracle of the Buddhas (much like Teresa of Avila). She also was trying to reconcile the Shasta Abbey practices with traditional Anglican ceremony (for example, their chants much resemble the Book of Common Prayer). Portions of the style and wording of their Shobogenzo are very "King James" in feel, which can be clearly felt in this translation. Of course, to each their own and it is a tremendous reference and accomplishment.

(1) of all the Shobogenzo translations out there, which is the most "accurate" from the point of view of Buddhist scholarship and translation (i.e., most faithful to what Dogen actually wrote)? (2) which is the most readable by the non-specialist, while still being as faithful as possible to Dogen? I told him not to be polite to my teacher, Nishijima Roshi, in answering.

He said that,

... as far as Shobogenzo translations, Waddell/Abe, is perhaps the most "accurate" even though out of date in some ways (it is a reprint of renderings done in the 1970s). Tanahashi's several books are always very very good, and perhaps the most accessible to a non-scholar (at the intersection of literal accuracy and readability). He highly recommended those. Nishijima/Cross, he said, is the best of the complete translations, but it has many problems in grammar, typos and other small quirks (due to my teacher's limited English abilities and some peculiarities about Chodo Cross' style and Nishijima Roshi's personal philosophy) that it is best for serious students who can pick out the minor problems and see the underlying strength.

The Soto Text project promises someday to be the best overall, but is coming out in small doses, still spotty and not quite living up to potential yet. Nishiyama/Stevens and Yokoi are to be avoided. Cleary, Masunaga, and Shasta all have some strengths, but are not nearly as good as the first sets above.

That is from a Dogen scholar's point of view.

I very much appreciate to read, for example, one of the other translations hand-in-hand with the "Soto Zen Text Project" version, when available. The reason is the wonderful work that has been done in tracing the history of the citations by Dogen which pepper the Shobogenzo.

Now, recently Kazu Tanahashi issued a full translation of the Shobogenzo (he had issued bits and pieces in past decades) that we have discussed before, and which I think will become the most widely used English Shobogenzo in the Zen World because it is a lovely mix of style (very important to Dogen, the wordsmith) and scholarship and substance and readability, sacrificing not too much on each front, by a gifted poet and Dogen scholar in conjunction with other gifted writers, priests and Dogen scholars.

... although the price tag is a bit hefty (appropriate to the work that went into it) ...