Things concerning Jews in Portland and everywhere that happen here and in Israel coming from an American-Israeli.

Friday, February 10, 2017

Where is the Logic With a Two-State Solution? A Solution for Who?

Nadene Goldfoot

The tragedy is that after waiting and praying for 2,000 years, something positive happened. We had meetings with European heads from 1914 onward about regaining our land back to create a Jewish Homeland.

Our leaders jumped through all the hoops of doing everything expected; meeting with the right people, filling out the right forms, presenting our case, doing what could be done to put the right foot forward, and finally, finally Lord Balfour was reached! he wrote the letter that was the clincher, we were to have our Jewish Homeland on our previous land of Palestine.

By 1917, the War had ended and the British were given the mandate over Palestine and the French were given the mandate over Syria. The British mandate was for 30 years, meaning that the Jews would not be able to have their state for 30 years after the British left, which wouldn't be until May 14, 1948.
By 1920 (from Sept-Dec), the number of persons registered as immigrants in Palestine were:
5,514 Jews and 202 Christians and Moslems with a total of 5,716.

The promise was broken by 1922 when the British gave 80% of the Jewish Homeland to Prince Abdullah of Saudi Arabia, an Arab who helped to win the WWII War against the Ottoman Empire with his horse brigade. The Prince wanted to be a king and needed land in order to do so. In 1922, 7,844 Jews had immigrated to Palestine and 284 Christians and Moslems with a total of 8,128.

Jews in Odessa after Pogrom

The let-down for the Jews must have been horrific, since they had worked for 8 years to reach the point of having their own state in a time of great need. Pogroms, attacks and slaughter of Jews showing much anti-Semitism had reached a boiling point in the world.

In 1939, 16,405 Jews immigrated to Palestine and 376 Christians and 1,652 Moslems with a total:18,433.

The idea came to mind of the League of Nations to offer to divide what land was left for the Jews among the rest of the Arabs not a part of the Hashemites of Abdullah. They made them the offer, but the Arabs refused. They wanted the whole remaining piece that was left for the Jews. Jerusalem was going to be divided, thought the League of Nations, but that too, didn't work out.

Ever since then, the Arabs have banded together with all their neighbors of the Middle East and have attacked Israel, who have managed to win each one. In Khartoum, Libya in 1967 after Israel won, the Arabs decided on 3 no's to Israel and the world.
1. No peace with Israel.2. No negotiations with Israel3. No recognition of Israel.

The only thing they'd settle for was: The insistence on the rights of the "Palestinian people in their own country.

Interesting they should say that, because they never had "their own country. There was no country of Palestine. They were Palestinian Syrian Arabs, and that was it. They were Bedouins, roamers who raided campsites for what could be found and taken. A few tried farming but gave up and sold their land, to the Jews who were returning in 1870 and in the 1880's and to Jews whose families had been there since the days of King David and had never left. Most entered Palestine seeking work from the Jews. This has all been documented by journalist Joan Peters in her book, From Time Immemorial. She did a terrific job finding original papers with the information, putting most PhD's to shame with her documentation. Her work reached the ears of several presidents who responded positively to her work.

Notice the 9 mile width of land for Israel! Going back to these lines is Saudi Arabia's idea of a peace plan,yes, giving a lot of pieces to the Arabs. I didn't notice Saudi Arabiagiving any land to Abdullah! They're very generous with other people's land.

Ever since then, the main Arab effort has been directed towards bringing about the withdrawal of Israel to the pre-1967 lines by every means other than negotiations with Israel.

The means they have always chosen since 1967 have not brought them any closer to their objective of forcing upon Israel a decision which is not acceptable to it. Israel has insisted that the conflict should be solved directly between the 2 sides and that an imposed settlement is no solution to it.

The Palestine Cabinet, mixed Fatah and Hamas on a good daymany are former terrorists

Thinking inside the box always comes around to the idea of a 2-state solution, and every time the Palestinians wrangle out of it by their refusals to come to a peace table, or just saying no. They have even gone as far as forming a cabinet, and always, Mahmoud Abbas, now 81 years old, the replacement of Yasser Arafat, is the head man.

Queen Rania of Jordan

So we have a situation. Many of these Arabs are now a part of Abdullah's Hashemite group and live in Jordan, land that was to be the Jewish Homeland according to the League of Nations originally. It is already a state with Palestinians. In fact, the Queen is the daughter of a Palestinian. That's #1 Palestine already.

Abbas speaking at UN against Israel as usual

We have the Arabs living in 2 locations, not connected. The Fatah group led by Abbas live in Judea-Samaria, (The West Bank). The stronger terrorist group, Hamas, live in Gaza. The 2 leaders, Abbas and Meshaal, do not agree on anything for more than 30 minutes and are in a state of dispute over who is the leader of the 2. How can this be a Palestine #2 when it looks like and acts like a #2 and a #3?

We have Arabs who are not interested in having their own state and we have Jews who are getting tired of hearing that a 2 state solution is the only solution in this world for these 2 people. Would you want to have people who have tried to kill you for the past 70 years right next door to you ? This already happened with Gaza. By leaving it for the Arabs, a terrorist group, Hamas took it over and kicked out old Abbas. (I say that kindly because I am 82.) Who in their right mind would turn over the keys to people bent on killing and slaughtering you and have them live right next door to you? This has been seen already in southern Israel with Gaza. It's been seen happening to Jews in Judea-Samaria. People live in bomb shelters in order to exist in Southern Israel .

Hamas terrorist

I have a feeling that after 70 years, the Arabs are not ever going to live in peace next door as they do not live in peace in Gaza. From 1947 to 2017, all Arabs have practiced are attacks on Israelis.

They have no reason to want their own state. They have 48 states they can live in that are Muslim majority states of which 22 are in the surrounding area. They came from all these 22 states, and maybe even farther.

Jews, after receiving the papers, had to wait 30 years before claiming their state and their reward for doing it right was to receive only 20%. Where is the the waiting period for the Arabs? If they really want a state bad enough, they should show they have earned it by good behavior for the next 30 years. They need time to recondition their people from the hatred they have fed them with to being good neighbors. Actually, I think waiting for 70 years has been long enough. The open window is shut.

This is why Netanyahu should use his land that Israel won back in 1967. It's Israel's land, not land to give away to murderers and terrorists. Israel waited from 1948 to 1967 in not using land that should have been theirs, but they were following the rules. 19 years of being kept off their own land and their own special holy places was enough already.

Israel's not going back to the pre-1967 lines. Netanyahu explained already to Obama why. I hope someone helps Trump with his homework before he comes along and suggests this old saw once again.

Possible homes to build-Amma building in IndiaAmma means mother in many languages. Eema is mother in Hebrew.

Me in 1980 in Safed; my apartment on David Eleazar StreetDon't go thinking Israel will be building any $600,000 homes per family.It most likely means apartments for people and they are very small.

To me, Netanyahu is doing the only thing left to do, and that is building on the land. As long as the Arabs refuse to sit down and make peaceful plans with Israel, they are wasting Israel's time and therefore will be losing land that could have been theirs to use long ago. They're not losing anything, really, because they never had land to lose! It was never theirs!

A 2-State Solution? The Arabs will be lucky to be allowed to stay in their cities in Judea and Samaria. As far as that goes, Judea and Samaria are already divided into areas A-for Arabs, B-for both Arabs and Jews, and C-for Israeli Jews. This goes back to the Oslo Accords.

To me, this is logic. Bad behavior should not get rewarded. The way this world has been working lately, it does get rewarded. The world is now against the Jews who have been struggling to survive these past 70 years against constant warfare against them, and for that, they are called "Occupiers, viruses, and other such "pleasantries. " Anti-Semitism has risen to great heights again. The 2-State solution only comes to one solution: Guess it's time for better heads: Solomon? the Messiah? Trump 's thought is for the 2 state solution. Same old, same old. That only works if both parties want peace.

Update: The population of Israel is 6,000,000,000 Jews and a total of 8,192,463 with the rest being Muslims and a few Christians.
Palestinians count as their population 4,797,239 with an increase of 2,8% from last year.
This makes the idea of incorporating land that Palestinians expect to have for their state very difficult being a hefty Jewish majority must always be the main population. Update: 2/13/17; 7:27amAnother group agreees with me: Watch this video: with youtube: https://unitedwithisrael.org/watch-what-is-the-two-state-solution/?utm_source=pushengage&utm_medium=push_notification&utm_campaign=pushengage

10 comments:

i agree with you completely nadene. there is no peace with them in the picture. and they won't bow out because that is too civil. no. they won't bow out. God will have to take them out. (Lord have Mercy on the innocents) they won't heed a gentler way and be good neighbors...israel is willing they are not...they are bent on destroying..but it will be those who hate like this and destroy like this, that will be destroyed themselves.is coming to a head some day. not too far out there now either....

Thanks for agreeing, Andre. I had had it today, thinking about Trump in a rather scolding way saying to Israel that building doesn't help him to make peace. I've heard that argument so many times, and it always turns out that the Arab Palestinians just simply don't plan on being peaceful, period. The more I thought about it, I finally had to write down what I felt. The Saudi peace plan is so rankling, too. What a plan; just give it all to the Arabs. Well, they had their chance when the Labor party was in and they were ready to give away most everything to have peace, but found out that they weren't getting any sort of peace. 70 years already of waiting for peace. Yes, it's due anytime now. You know, if we had to write a book about life in the Middle East, a fiction, we couldn't dream up the ridiculous events that have happened. Truth is indeed stranger than fiction. Arabs could have had their state in 1947. 70 years wasted in slaughtering Israelis and their own people, more their own people than Israelis, thank G-d, with their uncaring attitude.

A new Gallup poll finds that American support for the creation of a Palestinian state has been steadily eroding over the past two decades. When Gallup first polled the question in 1999, "Do you favor or oppose the establishment of an independent Palestinian state on the West Bank and Gaza Strip," 53% of Americans responded "Yes," while just 26% said, "No."

Today, those numbers are nearly tied -- 45% yes, 42% no. That represents an eight-point decline in support and a 16-point increase in opposition to a Palestinian state carved out of Judea and Samaria.

I believe the reason for the growing opposition to a Palestinian state is obvious: More and more Americans understand that the last thing we need in the Middle East is another failed Islamic, terrorist state.

And when asked which side they have more sympathy for, 62% of Americans say they have more sympathy for Israel, while just 19% say they sympathize more with the Palestinians.

The phrase "two-state solution” is repeated daily by international leaders and organizations. However, the phrase is bandied about without a full awareness of its history or of the practical aspects of its implementation in the realities of the Israeli-Palestinian dispute.It is accepted that a situation in which a neighboring Palestinian state would be politically and economically unstable and open to manipulation by terror elements could never be acceptable to Israel and would constitute a threat to Israel’s security.It is accepted that a unified Palestinian leadership must be able to speak in the name of the entire Palestinian people and capable of entering into and fulfilling commitments. Such a situation does not exist at present.On the basis of experience gained with the existing agreements, any permanent status agreement between the sides will need to include solid guarantees – legal, political, and security – that a Palestinian state will not abuse its sovereign prerogatives and international standing in order to violate or void the agreements.It is clear that a Palestinian state will only emanate from direct negotiations between Israel and a unified Palestinian leadership. Issues such as borders, Jerusalem, refugees, and settlements will only be resolved by negotiation and not by partisan political resolutions emanating from the UN or any other source.Any such state must recognize Israel as the nation state of the Jewish people, in the same manner in which Israel would recognize a Palestinian state as the nation state of the Palestinian people.

Today Netanyahu and Sarah met with Trump in Washington DC at noon and had a press conference. It was most positive displaying excellent rapore. Netanyahu has known Jered, Trump's son in law, for many years. Trump still wants to win by stopping settlements and said so but also said that both parties need to want peace and he would be happy with what they will be happy about. Netanyahu showed his skill as a speaker and explained beautifully off the cuff Israel's position. My position is that Netanyahu is most polished in logic and a terrific speaker!

U.S. Says Two-State Solution Isn't Condition for Mideast Peace - Tracy Wilkinson and Alexandra ZavisA senior White House official briefing reporters on Tuesday ahead of the Trump-Netanyahu meeting on Wednesday said, "A two-state solution [between Israel and the Palestinians] that doesn't bring peace is not our goal that anybody wants to achieve." Asked whether peace didn't equal a two-state solution, the official said, "Maybe, maybe not." "It's something the two sides have to agree to," the official added. "It's not for us to impose that vision....Peace is the goal, whether it comes in the form of a two-state solution, if that's what the parties want, or something else. If that's what the parties want, we're going to help them." (Chicago Tribune)

For the Palestinians, the Two-State Solution Was Always a Fraud - Joel FishmanDuring the war in Vietnam, the North Vietnamese intention was to conquer South Vietnam, but they spoke of the "Two-State Solution" to disguise their aims and manipulate world public opinion. They adopted a strategy of phases which would enable them to reach their goal by gradual steps. In the early 1970s, Salah Khalaf led a PLO delegation to Hanoi to learn from the North Vietnamese. There, they met the legendary General Vo Nguyen Giap and political advisors who coached them on presenting their case and changing their image of being terrorists. Khalaf recounted that the North Vietnamese advised the Palestinians to devote attention to the intermediate stages of their war. "The Politbureau members gave a long expose of the various stages in the Vietnamese People's struggle, explaining why they had had to resign themselves to various concessions, sometimes important ones such as the division of the country into two separate, independent states." It is still necessary to listen carefully to what the enemy is saying and what he means. We live in a high-technology culture of sound bites, but in order to understand what is wrong here, we must remember the history of this slogan, which was designed from the start to be a swindle. It began as a tool of political warfare, and its purpose never changed. (Mosaic-Mida)

just keep on telling the story nadene. i'm listening and i hope there are more and more who will listen and see how history is telling us who is for peace and who is not. the truth is out there. it needs hearers...

Thanks, Andre. I'm trying. I thought Trump was really understanding the situation, but I'm not even sure that Jered, his son in law, does, so Trump won't if Jered doesn't. Now were facing an awful lot of anti-Semitism going on in the USA all of a sudden, and I wonder what is going on. We have such under-educated people who turn against Jews the minute they are afraid of something or other. Even when they know the truth about people, they can't seem to turn off that hatred learned when a baby. Look at the North and South Civil War, today's Democrats and Republican animosity towards each other. It takes a miracle to change.

About Me

I'm the American Nadene Goldfoot. Another lives in England. I'm the one who went to Israel and lived there from 1980 to the end of 1985. I'm an amateur genealogist for our family who also has expanded interests into dna. I now spend my time writing in my 3 blogs teaching about Israel and defending her position.

On my tree I have found Rabbi Samson Wertheimer, RASHI, and King David through DNA testing. Another branch holds the kings and queens of England by genealogy. When current events become deplorable, I turn to this hobby for a lift. It's all whetted my appetite for ancient history of Israel.