Have you gone out by yourself and just looked at people in their cliques? Have you noticed how they don't look anywhere outside of their small circle of "friends"? Have you thought about what an individual would do if they had to go out completely alone? How do you explain the psychology behind cliques? Do you think people really value their relationships or are they just clinging to a group of people because they are afraid that they will be alone like we are?

I used to go out to bars all alone because I thought that was the way to connect to people. It never occurred to me that I could be alone in a crowd full of people but there I was trying to talk to people that only showed me the back of their heads. Winston has written about this too - the ice barriers that exist between strangers so if you go out alone you stay alone.

Is the explanation really what I have suspected all along that mainstream American society is still trapped in high school with this mentality that we are the popular kids and nobody else is worthy of talking to us?

Great question. I guess humans are conformist by nature and need to belong to a group or tribe. They do not do well alone unless they are either assholes, really tough, or spiritual people who have a sense of connection with the universe.

America's culture is cliquish. Without a clique, you have no social life or identity. So a clique is your identity outside of work. But I heard that most friendships in the US are acquaintances, not real friends. You can find hang out acquaintances in the US if you work at it.

But it's not exciting because you don't meet and interact with people freely everyday, like you would in Russia or Latin America.

I don't know why the US is so cliquish but many other countries aren't. It's weird.

Also, when you are alone in the US, you feel lonely, isolated and alone. But in other countries, such as Russia or the Philippines, when you are sitting alone, you don't feel alone, because people are cool with talking to strangers and relaxed about it. So you don't feel this barrier that you do in the US.

Last edited by Winston on April 14th, 2014, 7:44 am, edited 1 time in total.

"It takes far less effort to find and move to the society that has what you want than it does to try to reconstruct an existing society to match your standards." - Harry Browne, How I Found Freedom in an Unfree World

Winston wrote:America's culture is cliquish. Without a clique, you have no social life or identity. So a clique is your identity outside of work. But I heard that most friendships in the US are acquaintances, not real friends. You can find hang out acquaintances in the US if you work at it.

But it's not exciting because you don't meet and interact with people freely everyday, like you would in Russia or Latin America.

I don't know why the US is so cliquish but many other countries aren't. It's weird.

Also, when you are alone in the US, you feel lonely, isolated and alone. But in other countries, such as Russia or the Philippines, when you are sitting alone, you don't feel alone, because people are cool with talking to strangers and relaxed about it. So you don't feel this barrier that you do in the US.

On top of this, Americans don't like meeting new people, so they only socialize with people within their "clique."

In the USA, you make your friends early in life (in grade school, high school and college) once you are out of school, you are SOL (Shit Out of Luck) when it comes to making friends.

Thank God not all countries are like this, in a lot of countries, you can easily talk to strangers and make new friends anywhere you go (bookstores, grocery stores, on buses and trains) and it's not considered "creepy" like it is in the US.

"When I think about the idea of getting involved with an American woman, I don't know if I should laugh .............. or vomit!"

"Trying to meet women in America is like trying to decipher Egyptian hieroglyphics."

Do you think guys that France is not a cliquish society in general?
Come here in Paris,just go out as a lonely male and see what happen..
The only persons who can break the cliquish behaviour,are pretty young desirable females.
They would attract some lonely guys but they are far more accepted in a group either by men and women.

You got no chance to meet people randomnly..you will end up looking at your drink and that's all.
Have you heard that in Paris the nightclubs discrimate against males who are alone?
You need to have a female with you.
Ladies can come in group and they are welcome.
Many discos implement the ladies nights..free enter for them.

Being cliquish is a way to show i'm better than you..i have friends,i'm a normal human being.
Going out alone is seeing as being a loser..a potential creepy man.
You can't feel confident in these conditions so when you got very few options to meet women and have friends,it's the perfect road to develop a mental illness.

I get quit amused when i see some of you who thinks that France or some Western countries are way better than the US.
Would you compare SK and the Phillipines when it come to women?

Don't come to France if you don't have already a solid social network because if you think that just going out alone in the night you will meet easily people,you are totally deluded.

green1976 wrote:Do you think guys that France is not a cliquish society in general?
Come here in Paris,just go out as a lonely male and see what happen..
The only persons who can break the cliquish behaviour,are pretty young desirable females.
They would attract some lonely guys but they are far more accepted in a group either by men and women.

You got no chance to meet people randomnly..you will end up looking at your drink and that's all.
Have you heard that in Paris the nightclubs discrimate against males who are alone?
You need to have a female with you.
Ladies can come in group and they are welcome.
Many discos implement the ladies nights..free enter for them.

Being cliquish is a way to show i'm better than you..i have friends,i'm a normal human being.
Going out alone is seeing as being a loser..a potential creepy man.
You can't feel confident in these conditions so when you got very few options to meet women and have friends,it's the perfect road to develop a mental illness.

I get quit amused when i see some of you who thinks that France or some Western countries are way better than the US.
Would you compare SK and the Phillipines when it come to women?

Don't come to France if you don't have already a solid social network because if you think that just going out alone in the night you will meet easily people,you are totally deluded.

Have you tried going outside of Paris? Have you tried smaller towns in Southern France?

The thing is, it should be easier to break into cliques in France if you resonate with them. Breaking into cliques is not a skill or method, like fixing a car or computer. It's all about whether you vibe with the clique and are on the same wavelength or not. If you do, you will naturally come together with them.

French are more cultured at least, so if you are cultured, you will get along easier. Europeans are more down to earth and social too. They are not as racist against Asians and Blacks. And they aren't as fake.

So theoretically it will be easier to vibe with them.

If not, go to Eastern Europe. I can promise you that people are more open there for sure.

If you are traveling around Europe alone, stay in hostels to meet people, or use Couchsurfing. That way, you will meet people.

There is also a saying that, "If you hate America, you will love France. If you love America, you will probably not like France." French culture is supposed to be the inverse of America.

"It takes far less effort to find and move to the society that has what you want than it does to try to reconstruct an existing society to match your standards." - Harry Browne, How I Found Freedom in an Unfree World

green1976 wrote:Do you think guys that France is not a cliquish society in general?
Come here in Paris,just go out as a lonely male and see what happen..
The only persons who can break the cliquish behaviour,are pretty young desirable females.
They would attract some lonely guys but they are far more accepted in a group either by men and women.

You got no chance to meet people randomnly..you will end up looking at your drink and that's all.
Have you heard that in Paris the nightclubs discrimate against males who are alone?
You need to have a female with you.
Ladies can come in group and they are welcome.
Many discos implement the ladies nights..free enter for them.

Being cliquish is a way to show i'm better than you..i have friends,i'm a normal human being.
Going out alone is seeing as being a loser..a potential creepy man.
You can't feel confident in these conditions so when you got very few options to meet women and have friends,it's the perfect road to develop a mental illness.

I get quit amused when i see some of you who thinks that France or some Western countries are way better than the US.
Would you compare SK and the Phillipines when it come to women?

Don't come to France if you don't have already a solid social network because if you think that just going out alone in the night you will meet easily people,you are totally deluded.

I was just going to say something similar. Some of these guys have such idealistic beliefs about other countries and people. I've spent most of my life in the US now- Italian Argentine background. I can tell you some stuff about the culture down there that would blow some of those preconceived ideas right out of the water.

As for those supposedly sweet little submissive Latinas, or bouncing curvy supermodel types, to be found down there, forget it. The typical chick from that country looks like Shelley Duvall in The Shining, and behaves like Courtney Love.

I haven't been there for many years but i've heard quite bad things regarding Argentinean women compared to others Latin American females.
They sound quit demanding,thinking to be the catch and feel they are closer to the Western world than from Latin America.

It's true that women in Paris are in general a lot more high maintenance princess.
They just don't have the right vibes.
Of course if you are a quite wealthy American man or gravitate in the correct social circle it will be easier but what count imo is what happen if you are an anonymous guy on the street or in bar.
What makes life entertainming and diverse,is this possibility to connect easily with women who are stranger in a relaxed way.

Anyway i have already been to Southern France or in the countryside..they are not so fast paced but they are not easy to communicate.

I speak quit good English and good Spanish..i can try to use this to score some French women as this would be quit exotic..anyway it's too much of a hassle and i prefer a lot to go to SEA.

It's not because some people say if you hate America you will love France that it will change something about women and dating.
You can hate the political system,the US imperialism and proudly defend France and her culture it won't change a single thing regarding feminism or how females are not easy.
The only things that French women have it's that they are not so fat as their American counterparts.
Also they are not as much vulgar and bad mouthed as AW.

Anyway coming to France specifically for a radical change of scenery for women is a mistake.
Don't expect something spectacular.

jamesbond wrote:In the USA, you make your friends early in life (in grade school, high school and college) once you are out of school, you are SOL (Shit Out of Luck) when it comes to making friends.

I believe GFs and wives of American men, sabotage their men's friendships.

In other words, while back in my early to mid 20s, I had numerous friends and acquaintances but since then, as they started settling down with AWs, their GFs/wives wouldn't let them leave the house (or shopping center or office), without a rationalization of what to do with their free time.

Currently, my old friends, who're married, need to meet up with me almost clandestinely. It's like the b*tch of the household can't imagine them, not being outside, without having an affair with another woman (or that a guy's time is always her time).

One of my friends, who's so afraid of his wife's outbursts, always meets me to the restaurant bar, between his place and mine. He lives only two miles away. And then, once we have our pow-wow, he orders something take out (for her) or goes to the supermarket to pick up something pre-prepared for her. It's like he's bribing her, so that he can have some quality time with me.

If the above is considered a good married life then you can count me out. Of course, I never say a word about his marriage around him because I know he doesn't want to talk about it.

Many years ago, the Best Picture of 1999, "American Beauty", telegraphed the message of Happier Abroad to the world.

Beware of long term engagements with AWs, you may find yourself in a coffin.

S_Parc wrote:One of my friends, who's so afraid of his wife's outbursts, always meets me to the restaurant bar, between his place and mine. He lives only two miles away. And then, once we have our pow-wow, he orders something take out (for her) or goes to the supermarket to pick up something pre-prepared for her. It's like he's bribing her, so that he can have some quality time with me.

If the above is considered a good married life then you can count me out. Of course, I never say a word about his marriage around him because I know he doesn't want to talk about it.

In addition, I also don't bring Mel with me, when I meet up with guys alone.

The reason for that is that they think she's straight and that we're a normal couple. The result is that it makes 'em sad, because the association with their GF/wife is miserable, whereas Mel and I are very happy together.

We've also limited our double dates, but in that situation, it's more than the other couple gets jealous of our harmonious relationship.

Many years ago, the Best Picture of 1999, "American Beauty", telegraphed the message of Happier Abroad to the world.

Beware of long term engagements with AWs, you may find yourself in a coffin.

I never thought too much about going to France for the women. I thought more of Italy or maybe Germany. I base this on the females from all countries that I met in Costa Rica but none of them are higher up than Costa Rican women.

Once your friends start getting married, it will be difficult to make new friends and therefore difficult to have a social life. Going out alone sucks (at least in the USA) your branded a 'loser' if you go to bars and clubs by yourself.

Women assume if a guy goes out alone on a Friday or Saturday night, he is a loser with no friends. American women are very judgmental.

"When I think about the idea of getting involved with an American woman, I don't know if I should laugh .............. or vomit!"

"Trying to meet women in America is like trying to decipher Egyptian hieroglyphics."

I haven't been there for many years but i've heard quite bad things regarding Argentinean women compared to others Latin American females.
They sound quit demanding,thinking to be the catch and feel they are closer to the Western world than from Latin America.

It's true that women in Paris are in general a lot more high maintenance princess.
They just don't have the right vibes.
Of course if you are a quite wealthy American man or gravitate in the correct social circle it will be easier but what count imo is what happen if you are an anonymous guy on the street or in bar.
What makes life entertainming and diverse,is this possibility to connect easily with women who are stranger in a relaxed way.

Anyway i have already been to Southern France or in the countryside..they are not so fast paced but they are not easy to communicate.

I speak quit good English and good Spanish..i can try to use this to score some French women as this would be quit exotic..anyway it's too much of a hassle and i prefer a lot to go to SEA.

It's not because some people say if you hate America you will love France that it will change something about women and dating.
You can hate the political system,the US imperialism and proudly defend France and her culture it won't change a single thing regarding feminism or how females are not easy.
The only things that French women have it's that they are not so fat as their American counterparts.
Also they are not as much vulgar and bad mouthed as AW.

Anyway coming to France specifically for a radical change of scenery for women is a mistake.
Don't expect something spectacular.

Temprano26 wrote:Have you gone out by yourself and just looked at people in their cliques? Have you noticed how they don't look anywhere outside of their small circle of "friends"? Have you thought about what an individual would do if they had to go out completely alone? How do you explain the psychology behind cliques? Do you think people really value their relationships or are they just clinging to a group of people because they are afraid that they will be alone like we are?

I used to go out to bars all alone because I thought that was the way to connect to people. It never occurred to me that I could be alone in a crowd full of people but there I was trying to talk to people that only showed me the back of their heads. Winston has written about this too - the ice barriers that exist between strangers so if you go out alone you stay alone.

Is the explanation really what I have suspected all along that mainstream American society is still trapped in high school with this mentality that we are the popular kids and nobody else is worthy of talking to us?

Well, for starters, my level of trust for a complete stranger out of a scale of 1 to 100 is 1. If somebody starts talking to me I automatically assume they want or need something, they want to do me harm, and sad to say, even gay if the guy was overly friendly. I know, I know, it sucks that I would think a guy is gay just for talking to me, but I'm just being honest.

That said, it's human nature to want to be with a group. One of the human conditions that we're stuck with is always belonging to a group because no one human can fully sustain themselves and survive alone; and even if a human could survive alone, it's mentally and emotionally unhealthy. Humans are biologically wired to seek out a group to connect with and studies have shown that an individual is more healthy when they exist apart of a group. People who belong to groups have more development in areas of their brain, for example.

That said, sometimes it is better in the long run to fly solo because the current groups don't meet your individual needs, and in many such cases people just start their own group .