Lol, well personally I try to take socket bonuses especially stam ones, and for the moment at least I can gem haste/exp in red sockets and just reforge out of exp to end up with the same amount of total haste.

Daishan"I'll be more enthusiastic about encouraging thinking outside the box when there's evidence of any thinking going on inside it." -- Terry Pratchett

Since I'll get a 480 Haste gem into that badboy....who cares about the socket bonus

Unless you're completely allergic to stam gems (in which case.... I am baffled) using the JC gems on secondary stats has always been a mistake this xpack. The way they were boosted, the primary stat gems are doubled, but the secondary stat gems are +160'd. I suspect this was based on a late design change to double the secondary stat gems from 160 to 320 to make them competitive, and JC was never fixed.

If you're using JC gems on haste, you're only gaining 320 total haste over the normal blue gems—a bonus of one gems worth. If you're using them on stam, you're gaining 480, a bonus of two gems worth.

Since I'll get a 480 Haste gem into that badboy....who cares about the socket bonus

Unless you're completely allergic to stam gems (in which case.... I am baffled) using the JC gems on secondary stats has always been a mistake this xpack. The way they were boosted, the primary stat gems are doubled, but the secondary stat gems are +160'd. I suspect this was based on a late design change to double the secondary stat gems from 160 to 320 to make them competitive, and JC was never fixed.

If you're using JC gems on haste, you're only gaining 320 total haste over the normal blue gems—a bonus of one gems worth. If you're using them on stam, you're gaining 480, a bonus of two gems worth.

That's interesting. I've pretty much always used my JC gems on primary stats, but until you mentioned this, I had never noticed the shortcoming of JC secondary stat gems. Good to know.

Zothor wrote:Unless you're completely allergic to stam gems (in which case.... I am baffled) using the JC gems on secondary stats has always been a mistake this xpack. The way they were boosted, the primary stat gems are doubled, but the secondary stat gems are +160'd. I suspect this was based on a late design change to double the secondary stat gems from 160 to 320 to make them competitive, and JC was never fixed.

If you're using JC gems on haste, you're only gaining 320 total haste over the normal blue gems—a bonus of one gems worth. If you're using them on stam, you're gaining 480, a bonus of two gems worth.

It's not an oversight at all, JC gems are correct. The total stat allocation on a JC gem has the following breakdown --

Total stat = (0.5 * Bonus Prof Amount) + Normal Gem Amount

The portion of the JC gem that accounts for the normal gem is double-itemized for secondaries. The prof bonus portion is not, consistent with the all the other prof stat bonuses.

Basically the portion that reflects the prof bonus is itemized 1:1 secondary:primary, but the portion that reflects the opportunity cost of putting a normal gem in the socket is itemized 2:1 like a normal gem.

The oversight here is really that again, they've found a creative way to make blacksmithing mandatory min/max for any spec that prefers secondaries, because it gets double-itemization due to the sockets.

Zothor wrote:Unless you're completely allergic to stam gems (in which case.... I am baffled) using the JC gems on secondary stats has always been a mistake this xpack. The way they were boosted, the primary stat gems are doubled, but the secondary stat gems are +160'd. I suspect this was based on a late design change to double the secondary stat gems from 160 to 320 to make them competitive, and JC was never fixed.

If you're using JC gems on haste, you're only gaining 320 total haste over the normal blue gems—a bonus of one gems worth. If you're using them on stam, you're gaining 480, a bonus of two gems worth.

It's not an oversight at all, JC gems are correct. The total stat allocation on a JC gem has the following breakdown --

Total stat = (0.5 * Bonus Prof Amount) + Normal Gem Amount

The portion of the JC gem that accounts for the normal gem is double-itemized for secondaries. The prof bonus portion is not, consistent with the all the other prof stat bonuses.

Basically the portion that reflects the prof bonus is itemized 1:1 secondary:primary, but the portion that reflects the opportunity cost of putting a normal gem in the socket is itemized 2:1 like a normal gem.

The oversight here is really that again, they've found a creative way to make blacksmithing mandatory min/max for any spec that prefers secondaries, because it gets double-itemization due to the sockets.

The problem is that you need to use a primary stat gem to get a primary bonus.

For example, for a Retribution Paladin to get 320 strength from JC, he has to use 2 strength gems already. He would normally use 2 haste gems in those slots (or perhaps strength/haste ones), so he actually benefits less from JC than most other professions.

Perhaps making it a little more visual. Let's say Haste is 0.6 times the value of Strength. One paladin has Enchanting, the other paladin has Jewelcrafting. Let's assume they have 2 red sockets in their gear (if they have less, it's even worse for JC).

The Jewelcrafter would put 2x 320 Strength in the sockets. The total itemization score would be 320 + 320 = 640. He's losing out because he is forced to use strength in those sockets, rather than haste.

Marilee wrote:Looks like now that we can see the procs on the legendary, final version of these capes, the DPS one is even more attractive. (Assuming the effects go on the corresponding cloak automatically.)

My understanding of the legendary quest is that you get the legendary cloak first, and at the end of the chain you get to apply whatever enchant you like to it.

If you think of it, it kinda makes sense, else the Agi tanks would be forced to take the STR tank cloak just due to the op effect.

theckhd wrote:Fuck no, we've seen what you do to guilds. Just imagine what you could do to an entire country. Just visiting the US might be enough to make the southern states try to secede again.

halabar wrote:Noo.. you don't realize the problem. Worldie was to negative guild breaking energy like Bolvar is to the Scourge. If Worldie is removed, than someone must pick up that mantle, otherwise that negative guild breaking energy will run rampant, destroying all the servers.

The legendary tank enchant seems to me like the ardent defender we used to have: A passive talent that saves your ass every once in a while. However, there might be some fights where this could become more than useful, but most of the time (from my experience) you either die anyways or have something else to use (e.g. new Sacred Shield and still ardent defender or course). If this would safe yourself in fights like Ra-Den (one hit kills), this would be really great. I guess this also depends on how much additional damage the dd enchant will bring...

If I'm reading the new proc correctly it'll be even stronger than the old AD.

"FULLY absorbs the damage of one attack that would normally kill you."

To me that sounds like you could take a decapitate or high stacked massive attack to the face and loose zero hp, assuming that it was a big enough single hit to normally kill you.Ofc on smaller hits it won't be quite as strong but still a 1 min cd!

Daishan"I'll be more enthusiastic about encouraging thinking outside the box when there's evidence of any thinking going on inside it." -- Terry Pratchett

But smaller hits wouldn't normally kill you unless you were desperately reaching for Lay on Hands anyway. Except of course if that big hit only takes 99% of your health and then a melee hit comes after it it could be annoying.

I'm guessing we're going to need to get an addon or aura to track this ASAP, or nubsoaking avoidable big hits while this is on CD could cause some frustration.

Sagara wrote:Well, I do remember us being totally in love with the passive Ardent Defender, but I think it had something else that made it the awesome tool it was.

EDIT: Right - it had an heal included to counteract the deadly attack.

I don't think there's really that much difference between being brought to 1 hp and then healed up for a bit, or having the entire hit absorbed. It's the passive cheat death itself that makes it amazing.

And yeah, there is a "tanking" agi cloak (which is weird, since the Brewmaster/Guardian tier pieces don't even have "tanking" stats on them). I doubt they'll lock us out of certain legendary effects just because we picked different stats than what the itemization team deems best for us.

You just can't have 2 cloaks at the same time, that's it, but they said they are considering fixing that in 5.4

theckhd wrote:Fuck no, we've seen what you do to guilds. Just imagine what you could do to an entire country. Just visiting the US might be enough to make the southern states try to secede again.

halabar wrote:Noo.. you don't realize the problem. Worldie was to negative guild breaking energy like Bolvar is to the Scourge. If Worldie is removed, than someone must pick up that mantle, otherwise that negative guild breaking energy will run rampant, destroying all the servers.

Thels wrote:I don't think there's really that much difference between being brought to 1 hp and then healed up for a bit, or having the entire hit absorbed. It's the passive cheat death itself that makes it amazing.

Definitely the cheat death that makes it amazing but on a fight with a nasty dot that ticks every 0.5 sec the absorb version looses some of its value as it'll only give you and your healers an extra 0.5 sec.Where as on a boss that does occasional 800k single hit specials the absorb version becomes massively op.

Daishan"I'll be more enthusiastic about encouraging thinking outside the box when there's evidence of any thinking going on inside it." -- Terry Pratchett