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I think your previous post had demonstrated that you have the capability to evaluate other brands on your own. The reason I refuse to offer links, is that not only such info are readily available at your fingertips, but experience tells me it is just a ploy for some more insult, they will say why don't you go there? Who cares? Not falling for it.

As far as ATS, I agree with you it comes short on the refinement compared to the F30. But I think the ATS beats the C class and Audi A4 in terms of driving dynamics by a mile. On the other hand the C class and A4 are not trying to sell to those who care about driving dynamics, so it matters little to them.

Even so ATS should eat into each of the brands' market share, the only question is to what extent.

I have not started such discussions about ATS, only participated in them. It seems to me a few people here can only be happy if they get to trash ATS or Cadillac in general, or anything non-BMW. When there are opposing views, suddenly those are trolling.

The question is, why some of you get so intense, out of what? Fear? If you are truly happy about yourself, no criticism should spook you. Not to mention I have plenty of criticism reserved for ATS too.

I think your previous post had demonstrated that you have the capability to evaluate other brands on your own. The reason I refuse to offer links, is that not only such info are readily available at your fingertips, but experience tells me it is just a ploy for some more insult, they will say why don't you go there? Who cares? Not falling for it.

As far as ATS, I agree with you it comes short on the refinement compared to the F30. But I think the ATS beats the C class and Audi A4 in terms of driving dynamics by a mile. On the other hand the C class and A4 are not trying to sell to those who care about driving dynamics, so it matters little to them.

Even so ATS should eat into each of the brands' market share, the only question is to what extent.

I have not started such discussions about ATS, only participated in them. It seems to me a few people here can only be happy if they get to trash ATS or Cadillac in general. When there is opposing views, suddenly those are trolling.

The question is, why some of you get so intense, out of what? Fear? If you are truly happy about yourself, no criticism should spook you. Not to mention I have plenty of criticism reserved for ATS too.

Personally I am not that interested in ATS-V. First, unlike Chris90 I don't think you have to get the V to address the nasty chrome issue. The 3 series does not have to be an M3 to have blacked out trims. Second, the V, similar to the M, will get a lot of attention in the enthusiast communities, but are still niche products, will have little impact on market shares.

The ATS is definitely better looking than the F30. The F30 looks big and bloated, it is hard to distinguish it from the F10. Also the hood hump does not help the appearance. E46 was the best looking 3 series so far.

I think your previous post had demonstrated that you have the capability to evaluate other brands on your own. The reason I refuse to offer links, is that not only such info are readily available at your fingertips, but experience tells me it is just a ploy for some more insult, they will say why don't you go there? Who cares? Not falling for it.

As far as ATS, I agree with you it comes short on the refinement compared to the F30. But I think the ATS beats the C class and Audi A4 in terms of driving dynamics by a mile. On the other hand the C class and A4 are not trying to sell to those who care about driving dynamics, so it matters little to them.

Even so ATS should eat into each of the brands' market share, the only question is to what extent.

I have not started such discussions about ATS, only participated in them. It seems to me a few people here can only be happy if they get to trash ATS or Cadillac in general, or anything non-BMW. When there are opposing views, suddenly those are trolling.

The question is, why some of you get so intense, out of what? Fear? If you are truly happy about yourself, no criticism should spook you. Not to mention I have plenty of criticism reserved for ATS too.

The ATS is definitely better looking than the F30. The F30 looks big and bloated, it is hard to distinguish it from the F10. Also the hood hump does not help the appearance. E46 was the best looking 3 series so far.

I might be the only one on here that likes both the F30 and Ats design. I saw a F30 today in the school parking lot. It was a 328i, black, sport trim level, beige interior, my take on it is that BMW is moving towards an older age group, where as Cadillac is moving to a somewhat younger age group, even though just the other day I saw a guy in his 60's testing one out. He probably came back with questions like "why is this car so small?", "why doesn't this car drive like my 88' deville?". He probably left the dealership unimpressed.

Maybe some of us aren't intense about it but just find it funny. Particularly coming from those who don't own an F30. There aren't too many reasons why one would hang out in a forum for a car they neither own nor intend to buy. But have at it, again, it's entertaining.

I'm sure tons of BMW owners will swicth to an ATS. I'll tell you why. The vast majority of people that buy a 3 series only want an entry level luxury car. I see more business looking women and college kids driving 3 series than people hard charging through a corner. Let's face it, people buy entry level luxury cars for two reasons. Snob appeal and styling. Audi is selling $45,000 A4's with 205hp like hot cakes because they are pretty and have neat headlights. Most of the people on forums are into performance, myself included. Most buyers are not.

Quote:

Originally Posted by dtc100

If you feel vindicated because I have not provided any link, so be it. As I said, there is nothing wrong with not wanting to see outside of the box. I am not interested in helping you if you are not interested.

Those who may give the ATS a look are more than capable of punching in a few letters and find those discussions on other sites. Posting forum links here from a competing brand is often not appropriate.

I'll simplify my choice at least. I've never owned a BMW, Mercedes or Cadillac. I have an older (2003) manual, Audi A4 right now. I have no bias to any brand. I chose to order a 328i M sport because out or the competitors, BMW was the most "sport" leaning of the sport sedans. I was also blown away by the performance of the 328i on a test drive. Cadillac, Infiniti, Mercedes and Audi all lean towards the luxury side of styling. Especially on the interiors where you spend all your time. The introduction of the M sport and estoril blue pushed me over the edge to BMW after shopping for over a year.

Quote:

Originally Posted by boltjaM3s

He keeps telling us how much we should love the ATS and we keep telling him we're not interested so he keeps coming back to tell is how much we should love the ATS.

There was this Star Trek episode where Kirk is trapped in a parallel universe with Spock, gave me the same kind of headache.

I'm sure tons of BMW owners will swicth to an ATS. I'll tell you why. The vast majority of people that buy a 3 series only want an entry level luxury car. I see more business looking women and college kids driving 3 series than people hard charging through a corner. Let's face it, people buy entry level luxury cars for two reasons. Snob appeal and styling. Audi is selling $45,000 A4's with 205hp like hot cakes because they are pretty and have neat headlights. Most of the people on forums are into performance, myself included. Most buyers are not.

I'm a college student and your right about college kids and business looking women driving them. When I get out of college, I'll be looking at a performance car. Lot of the people at my college have a4's and 3 series, and I'll tell you that a lot of them are not going hard into corners. Next yr, I plan on taking a driving course to help me drive better.

I think your previous post had demonstrated that you have the capability to evaluate other brands on your own. The reason I refuse to offer links, is that not only such info are readily available at your fingertips, but experience tells me it is just a ploy for some more insult, they will say why don't you go there? Who cares? Not falling for it.

As far as ATS, I agree with you it comes short on the refinement compared to the F30. But I think the ATS beats the C class and Audi A4 in terms of driving dynamics by a mile. On the other hand the C class and A4 are not trying to sell to those who care about driving dynamics, so it matters little to them.

Even so ATS should eat into each of the brands' market share, the only question is to what extent.

I have not started such discussions about ATS, only participated in them. It seems to me a few people here can only be happy if they get to trash ATS or Cadillac in general, or anything non-BMW. When there are opposing views, suddenly those are trolling.

The question is, why some of you get so intense, out of what? Fear? If you are truly happy about yourself, no criticism should spook you. Not to mention I have plenty of criticism reserved for ATS too.

You're confusing him with someone else.

__________________

"When you were born, you cried and the world rejoiced. Live your life so that when you die, the world cries and you rejoice." - Cherokee Expression

The question is, why some of you get so intense, out of what? Fear? If you are truly happy about yourself, no criticism should spook you. Not to mention I have plenty of criticism reserved for ATS too.

The ATS is definitely better looking than the F30. The F30 looks big and bloated, it is hard to distinguish it from the F10. Also the hood hump does not help the appearance. E46 was the best looking 3 series so far.

Maybe some of us aren't intense about it but just find it funny. Particularly coming from those who don't own an F30. There aren't too many reasons why one would hang out in a forum for a car they neither own nor intend to buy. But have at it, again, it's entertaining.

That's what I thought when he was say that. I join the conversation and get verbally attacked immediately. But I was reading your post about the ATS-V and I was wondering if you had a link for that. Thanks.

I'm sure tons of BMW owners will swicth to an ATS. I'll tell you why. The vast majority of people that buy a 3 series only want an entry level luxury car. I see more business looking women and college kids driving 3 series than people hard charging through a corner. Let's face it, people buy entry level luxury cars for two reasons. Snob appeal and styling. Audi is selling $45,000 A4's with 205hp like hot cakes because they are pretty and have neat headlights. Most of the people on forums are into performance, myself included. Most buyers are not.

Personally I am not that interested in ATS-V. First, unlike Chris90 I don't think you have to get the V to address the nasty chrome issue.

Someone already makes black trim for the ATS. The reason I'm more interested in an ATS-V is I don't think the regular ATS offers anything over a 3 series to make me buy it. Maybe the handling is a little better, and the optional LSD is nice (but easy if not cheap to fix on the 3 series). Other than that, BMW wins in my book.

An ATS-V with a small block V8, now that would be something BMW doesn't offer.

__________________

"When you were born, you cried and the world rejoiced. Live your life so that when you die, the world cries and you rejoice." - Cherokee Expression

Someone already makes black trim for the ATS. The reason I'm more interested in an ATS-V is I don't think the regular ATS offers anything over a 3 series to make me buy it. Maybe the handling is a little better, and the optional LSD is nice (but easy if not cheap to fix on the 3 series). Other than that, BMW wins in my book.

An ATS-V with a small block V8, now that would be something BMW doesn't offer.

Except I don't think they will put a small block V8 in ATS-V. But I agree if there is a V8 version of the ATS, it will be a different conversation.

I think the source of your above link is European Press.

Based on most of the reviews and my own test drive, ATS has an edge on handling over F30, although it falls short, but still is close in many other areas. When I said black trim option, I was not referring to aftermarket options, rather options provided by the manufacture that one can order from the dealer.

There is already evidence that GM and US Bank have begun to offer some very attractive lease programs on ATS. Given that BMW has rerouted a lot of new cars' shipment to China and US due to poor European economy and demand, I think BMW will also be very aggressive in moving F30.