Maybe not the most intense or most amazing but I definitely admire Icare from Gris for playing some really creative/interesting drums on Il Était une Forêt... That is one of the few dsbm albums that isn't just a generic fucking beat behind long droney guitars playing the same riff over and over.

One that immediately comes to mind is Stormblast from Infernal War. Though his blastbeats are very fast and sometimes he makes liberal use of them, his style is tight and it has variation. His fills and double bass are tight and I love his implementation of the top part of his cymbals which give that pink sound. He is a big part of the reason I like Infernal War so much: http://youtu.be/lvWmlPxTpZY

Yeah, IW is fucking intense and the drums are well high in the mix, deffinitely one of their most stand-out traits.

I like how they are a black metal band but someone could easily mistake them for a blackened death metal band, which lends itself to the variation in their sound, for which the drummer plays a key role. Where is new material by them though? A band that good shouldn`t wait so damn long in-between releases.

I have to give a shout out to German one man band Horn's Nerrath, who plays a real drum kit and doesn't resort to programmed drumming on his albums. Is he the best, most creative, most skilled drummer of all time? No. But there is a unity of vision in everything he does and his music is utterly incredible.

Came here to say just that. Really suprised he hasn't been mentioned as often as he should be. Also seen someone mention Blut Aus Nord. I always thought Vindsval programmed BaN's drumming on most albums. Could be wrong on that, but the drums just SOUND mechanical!

DSO's drumming is also presumably programmed. If it isn't, it's extremely pro-tooled, and there are apparently several tracks (eg. drum fills while the beat itself is playing). I can't believe people consider that to be good drumming.

Yeah, I've heard this argument before. I personally believe its a human playing, but regardless- if its programmed, its well programmed, better then many. This thread here has an interesting discussion on this exact subject.

That said, I'm almost 99% sure that the drumming in Blut aus Nord is programmed, rather sloppily too. I've always found it to be a detractor from their music....

No, he definitely did need to; saying otherwise is almost missing the point entirely. Its absolutely non-technical (indeed, the entire album is) and is meant to create a hypnotic backing and not distract the listener but create that almost droning, blurry atmosphere. If the drumming had been at all fancy, the album would have had much less impact.

I understand what you're saying but I disagree entirely. It literally just sounded like the same song 8 times being played through someone's ass. The whole thing bores me to tears - I've never been able to sit through the whole thing in one sitting (although I've heard every song). Also it's a big detractor to me when even the band hates the album - I have the Decibel 25 Extreme Metal Masterpieces book and there's an interview with Nocturno Culto and Fenriz, and Fenriz goes in depth (like, 2 pages worth) of his writing process and the recording too, and then right after when they're asked what they think of it today Fenriz basically said he hated it. To quote Nocturno Culto also, "It's the reason why we have emo kids!" Yes he really did say that. IMO one of the most overrated black metal albums ever, even though I love Darkthrone.

Necronipple wrote:

Im surprised Frost hasn't been mentioned yet. His work with 1349 and Satyricon is pretty awesome.

I really like how Frost doesn't use triggers; that's really hard to do with extreme metal and the fact that he never does... I give him huge props for that.

Maniac Matis wrote:

Also seen someone mention Blut Aus Nord. I always thought Vindsval programmed BaN's drumming on most albums. Could be wrong on that, but the drums just SOUND mechanical!

I think certain things are programmed, but no they do have an actual drummer.

Subrick wrote:

On the subject of programmed drumming, the stuff on Anaal Nathrakh's records is insane. I particularly enjoy the frenzy of blasting on In the Constellation of the Black Widow.

One thing that pains me about them is that live they actually have a drummer. Why don't they just have him play on the records too?

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DSO's drumming is also presumably programmed. If it isn't, it's extremely pro-tooled, and there are apparently several tracks (eg. drum fills while the beat itself is playing). I can't believe people consider that to be good drumming.

I personally think it's a human drummer, that's just my opinion, but in terms of drum fills while the beat is playing, that doesn't mean it's programmed. One thing I've heard about Black Sabbath's Master Of Reality, you know Children Of The Grave and that cool rhythm at 20 seconds in? Bill Ward did 2 separate drum tracks to put in the rhythm and the beat at the same time.

Now obviously DSO's drumming is way more spastic, but the point still stands.

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I'm with the hordes who say Frost - he can blast like crazy, hold a huge groove and restrain whenever he wants - it's mechanical sometimes, but in a way I respect like crazy. Just listen to To the Mountains that dude uses the double kick for like 6 minutes straight....it's just like a sonic force.

Plus Mick I think wants complete creative control over the music and instruments, hence why he programs the drums rather than have the live drummer Steve Powell play on it. That and doing them programmed makes it easier to tweak and mix in post than if an actual person had played it.

Also, the earlier Anaal records had a distinct industrial vibe to them a lot of the time and the programmed drums were a big part of that. Just this giant, well oiled, deranged machine of chaos.

_________________

Earthcubed wrote:

I'm just perpetually annoyed by Sean William Scott and he's never been in a movie where I wasn't rooting for his head to sever by strange means.

I understand what you're saying but I disagree entirely. It literally just sounded like the same song 8 times being played through someone's ass. The whole thing bores me to tears - I've never been able to sit through the whole thing in one sitting (although I've heard every song). Also it's a big detractor to me when even the band hates the album - I have the Decibel 25 Extreme Metal Masterpieces book and there's an interview with Nocturno Culto and Fenriz, and Fenriz goes in depth (like, 2 pages worth) of his writing process and the recording too, and then right after when they're asked what they think of it today Fenriz basically said he hated it. To quote Nocturno Culto also, "It's the reason why we have emo kids!" Yes he really did say that. IMO one of the most overrated black metal albums ever, even though I love Darkthrone.

I definitely understand that; I would agree that TH is somewhat overated, if only because there are a lot of better BM albums out the. But my point is, the drumming on TH is not a reflection of Fenriz' skill level. It was a conscious decision to play like that, not an inability to play otherwise (not that you were saying that as such). I feel that there is true compositional intelligence at play there.

Regarding the bands opinion of it; I don't really care- I think its their best album. It seems Darkthrone dislike the clone-ish outcome that TH helped eventuate moreso then the music.

More thoughts regarding drum programming; I dislike Vintersorg, but have been impressed by his programming on certain albums. Also- Mirrorthrone. Another pretty medicore band with fantastic drum programming.

As someone who creates a lot of electronic music, obviously involving sample use, I almost feel that realistic drum programming requires more musical knowlede then actual human drumming. Programming relies on intellectual knowledge and understanding of the subtlties of human drumming, as opposed to physical technique and muscle memory (note that I've emphasised almost....!). They are quite different skill sets despite both achieving the same goal...

I understand what you're saying but I disagree entirely. It literally just sounded like the same song 8 times being played through someone's ass. The whole thing bores me to tears - I've never been able to sit through the whole thing in one sitting (although I've heard every song). Also it's a big detractor to me when even the band hates the album - I have the Decibel 25 Extreme Metal Masterpieces book and there's an interview with Nocturno Culto and Fenriz, and Fenriz goes in depth (like, 2 pages worth) of his writing process and the recording too, and then right after when they're asked what they think of it today Fenriz basically said he hated it. To quote Nocturno Culto also, "It's the reason why we have emo kids!" Yes he really did say that. IMO one of the most overrated black metal albums ever, even though I love Darkthrone.

I definitely understand that; I would agree that TH is somewhat overated, if only because there are a lot of better BM albums out the. But my point is, the drumming on TH is not a reflection of Fenriz' skill level. It was a conscious decision to play like that, not an inability to play otherwise (not that you were saying that as such). I feel that there is true compositional intelligence at play there.

Regarding the bands opinion of it; I don't really care- I think its their best album. It seems Darkthrone dislike the clone-ish outcome that TH helped eventuate moreso then the music.

More thoughts regarding drum programming; I dislike Vintersorg, but have been impressed by his programming on certain albums. Also- Mirrorthrone. Another pretty medicore band with fantastic drum programming.

As someone who creates a lot of electronic music, obviously involving sample use, I almost feel that realistic drum programming requires more musical knowlede then actual human drumming. Programming relies on intellectual knowledge and understanding of the subtlties of human drumming, as opposed to physical technique and muscle memory (note that I've emphasised almost....!). They are quite different skill sets despite both achieving the same goal...

Sure, I don't think it's their best album either, but it doesn't particularly matter that the band (or Fenriz) at least, doesn't like it anymore. Keep in mind that in the mid-90s and even a little later they slagged off Soulside Journey at every opportunity, whereas now their attitude seems to have mellowed somewhat. The wheel will turn once again.

And I agree that the drumming on TH is fitting. It doesn't stand out, and it's not supposed to. It's steady; a near robotic pulse and I wouldn't have it any other way. Still, I'm glad that most of Darkthrone's stuff is not at all like that, too.

As far as black metal goes, I'll choose charisma and a bit of groove over precise technical playing most days. It's also important to me that the drums have a natural, "live" sound. SOmeone already mentioned Lugubrum...there's a great example of a guy who knows exactly how to use his kit to create interesting dynamics and drum lines that are at times intensely memorable while at others add a sick, lurching groove to Lugubrum's music.

Xy from Samael should be mentioned. The drumming on Worship Him and Blood Ritual stands out a hell of a lot and basically holds all of the music together with some really thick, slow grooves. Nothing speedy on those albums, except for some double kick, but man, is it ever good...

_________________Hush! and harkTo the sorrowful cryOf the wind in the dark.Hush and hark, without murmur or sigh,To shoon that tread the lost aeons:To the sound that bids you to die.

P. from Dark Fury/Wschod (among others) is incredible. In black metal I tend to favor drummers who keep it simple and don't do anything over the top or go fill crazy or play with a kind of manic ADD. He executes blasts with incredible precision and still keeps things interesting.

Also have to mention Kaldrad/Wizard/whoever drummed on BBH recordings. Simplicity and minimalism at its finest, these guys add to the atmosphere and do nothing to detract from the pure mesmerism of the music. A similar example would be Patrick Hall of Sapthuran.

P. from Dark Fury/Wschod (among others) is incredible. In black metal I tend to favor drummers who keep it simple and don't do anything over the top or go fill crazy or play with a kind of manic ADD. He executes blasts with incredible precision and still keeps things interesting.

Also have to mention Kaldrad/Wizard/whoever drummed on BBH recordings. Simplicity and minimalism at its finest, these guys add to the atmosphere and do nothing to detract from the pure mesmerism of the music. A similar example would be Patrick Hall of Sapthuran.

Fully agreed, also seconding Horn and Drudkh mentions (just listen to Alpenland for the first and Skies at Our Feet for second, especially the ending part).

Capricornus had his unique sloppy style, which fit early Graveland so well, and after his departure Darken managed to create some of the best drum machine ever, I'd actually say it's especially seen on the rather recent EP Cold Winter Blades.

Another mention is Hrymr of Helheim, this band I don't care much about except for Av Norron Aett, which is a magnificent piece of viking metal that stands up to best moments of Enslaved, Windir, Kampfar, Hades...

Also, Balor of Morrigan, what he does on Headcult is the quintessence of that mid paced, epic battle drumming style, easily drawing more of your attention than the guitars (which isn't negative in this case).

Why in the hell would you care if the band themselves hate an album? It changes none of the notes recorded on the album. Learn to think for yourself, please.

If you read my comment you would know that it wasn't the only reason I disliked it. Ihsahn in that same book said that he isn't as fond of In The Nightside Eclipse either and I love that album. It just helps me take the material more seriously when the band also takes it seriously. That being said, even if they thought it was their best album I'd still slag it. I understand what others are saying about it creating a feel and pulse, but I still find it to be taking the easy way out, rather than compositional genius. If I were to say that about Transilvanian Hunger I'd be able to say it about any Dark Funeral album too. But to each his own, I guess. I'm not trying to change opinions, I'm just stating mine.

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The drumming on Worship Him and Blood Ritual stands out a hell of a lot and basically holds all of the music together with some really thick, slow grooves. Nothing speedy on those albums, except for some double kick, but man, is it ever good...

This is probably going to get everyone thinking I'm retarded or something but I've always found Blood Ritual to sound like more of a death metal album rather than black metal. It has a dark, black metal atmosphere yea, but a lot of the riffs and drumming remind me of old school death metal.

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Vorskaath (Zemial, Agatus): A very versatile, melodic drummer who can both play rich, drum-oriented black metal and simple, tight thrash songs.

Ardraos (Sühnopfer, Peste Noire, Aorlhac): Drums-wise, Sühnopfer is probably my favourite black metal band. It's drum-oriented black metal, but still it's god killer riffs covering the technically excellent and extremely varied drumming. I jumped a hole in the air when I heard he was going to perform on the new Peste Noire album.

Proscriptor (Absu): Only found out about him recently, but his enthusiasm and skill make for a unique blend of absolutely insane drumming.

I understand what others are saying about it creating a feel and pulse, but I still find it to be taking the easy way out, rather than compositional genius. If I were to say that about Transilvanian Hunger I'd be able to say it about any Dark Funeral album too. But to each his own, I guess. I'm not trying to change opinions, I'm just stating mine.

Well it's all about minimalism. I think it is compositional genius. I get the sense that you're implying that 'compositional genius' need be complex. There's a big difference between TH and Dark Funeral in the quality of melodies. Dark Funeral isn't minimalistic anyway, so that's a bad comparison.

^The drumming on most Dark Funeral albums is really good I think. Excessively blasty of course but insanely fast at times (I think their albums Diabolus Inter-something is one of the faster albums I've heard...)

Current drummer for Marduk is great, some awesome passages on Serpent Sermon...

I understand what others are saying about it creating a feel and pulse, but I still find it to be taking the easy way out, rather than compositional genius. If I were to say that about Transilvanian Hunger I'd be able to say it about any Dark Funeral album too. But to each his own, I guess. I'm not trying to change opinions, I'm just stating mine.

Well it's all about minimalism. I think it is compositional genius. I get the sense that you're implying that 'compositional genius' need be complex. There's a big difference between TH and Dark Funeral in the quality of melodies. Dark Funeral isn't minimalistic anyway, so that's a bad comparison.

[/quote]

Doesn't have to be complex, in fact I'm a huge fan of Neurosis and they never have 80 different movements to their songs. They utilize lots of repetition too but they use that as a tool to build and climax, even though a song might only have 2 or 3 distinct parts to it (listen to A Season In The Sky, or Origin). At times they can be minimalistic too, having only ambiance or slow guitar picking with singing at a slow tempo. Not really that complex at all, but they way they build and climax their songs are just genius, and it may only really 2 or 3 distinct movements like I said. Very simple in concept although it's very hard to pull it off effectively.

Now I know comparing Darkthrone to Neurosis is apples and oranges, but I think the point still stands. You can still write great songs that have huge impact and are memorable even though they are minimalistic. Neurosis are masters at this. The reason why I hate Transilvanian Hunger is because all of the songs sound the same to me - yeah there are different riffs but even then they aren't all that different. I don't really see writing the same song 8 times to be compositional genius, and that includes everything - the drumming, guitar riffs and vocals.

In terms of Dark Funeral, the only thing I have to state is that IMO fast =/= good. They aren't AS minimalistic, but to me they don't show much in the creativity department.

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The drumming on Worship Him and Blood Ritual stands out a hell of a lot and basically holds all of the music together with some really thick, slow grooves. Nothing speedy on those albums, except for some double kick, but man, is it ever good...

This is probably going to get everyone thinking I'm retarded or something but I've always found Blood Ritual to sound like more of a death metal album rather than black metal. It has a dark, black metal atmosphere yea, but a lot of the riffs and drumming remind me of old school death metal.

No no, you're right. But of course, there wasn't as strong a border between black and death metal back then, and today's interpreation of "black/death' is quite different. But for instance, listening to Blood Ritual and Morgoth's Cursed back to back reveals how similar they are, stylistically, in more than a few ways.

_________________Hush! and harkTo the sorrowful cryOf the wind in the dark.Hush and hark, without murmur or sigh,To shoon that tread the lost aeons:To the sound that bids you to die.

When I saw 1349 the promoter was telling me how nervous as fuck he was, as Frost had been bed-ridden and ill as fuck on the bus since they arrived. He crawled through the crowd, sat behind the kit, and beat the shit out of it.

The reason why I hate Transilvanian Hunger is because all of the songs sound the same to me - yeah there are different riffs but even then they aren't all that different. I don't really see writing the same song 8 times to be compositional genius, and that includes everything - the drumming, guitar riffs and vocals

They use the same framework but each song is different. Look at it as more of a conceptual whole than a bunch of little parts. If you don't have much experience with minimalist music, I guess it could be off-putting. I didn't understand the album when I heard it at age 16 or so. It's structured more like minimalist electronic music. It's a different form of composition is all.

I have to re-mention Horrn from Darkened Nocturn Slaughtercult. Listen to the new album Necrovision and tell me it isn't some of the most awesome drumming in black or death metal you've heard in a long time.

They use the same framework but each song is different. Look at it as more of a conceptual whole than a bunch of little parts. If you don't have much experience with minimalist music, I guess it could be off-putting. I didn't understand the album when I heard it at age 16 or so. It's structured more like minimalist electronic music. It's a different form of composition is all.

I disagree, but to each his own.

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Fenriz goes in depth (like, 2 pages worth) of his writing process and the recording too, and then right after when they're asked what they think of it today Fenriz basically said he hated it. To quote Nocturno Culto also, "It's the reason why we have emo kids!"

You never noticed they both have a sense of humour?

_________________Do the words Heavy Metal mean anything to you other than buttcore, technical progressive assgrind or the like?

Fenriz goes in depth (like, 2 pages worth) of his writing process and the recording too, and then right after when they're asked what they think of it today Fenriz basically said he hated it. To quote Nocturno Culto also, "It's the reason why we have emo kids!"

You never noticed they both have a sense of humour?

There isn't a sarcasm font unfortunately.

I know they have a sense of humour, but the point still stands: they don't like it.

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I have to re-mention Horrn from Darkened Nocturn Slaughtercult. Listen to the new album Necrovision and tell me it isn't some of the most awesome drumming in black or death metal you've heard in a long time.

Came here to second mention Erik Wunder (Cobalt) and Proscriptor (Absu).

Amazing drummers with an immediately recognizable, very particular style of their own. It also helps their bands are great, but I still think part of their greatness is due to the personality and passion they bring to their music. Wanna mention Xul from Melechesh as well. Can't think of a better replacement for Mr. McGovern in what it is a very special band.

Would like add to the thread a dude called Leshii, drummer for Arafel.I love this band and I urge everyone to check out their latest album, For Battles Once Fought. He's a a very well-rounded drummer, fitting the music very well. From instrumental folky tunes, to full BM blasting and also more rhythmically challenging passages more akin to DM drumming, he pulls it all off with ease. While he may not get any extra points for originality, he's for sure a very complete drummer and solid as fuck. Production is also top-notch (without being sterile) and his drums sound super tight.

And since we're also mentioning the speed demons of black metal, I have to ask everyone into this very particular style of musical devastation to check out the drumming of a guy called Malthus in Asmodeus' Imperium Damnatum. Last I've checked he's no longer with them and that kinda sucks, but anyway, I think his drumming is impressive on that album. Not much variety there, but a relentless assault on your senses second to none.

There are lot's of great BM drummers out there, the thing is that most of them play more to fit the music than to get their faces on drum mags, that's why we only talk about the usual suspects when the topic is extreme metal drumming.

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DeathfareDevil wrote:

Get the Enslaved album Eld and tomorrow you will be building a long boat on your lawn.