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I would mock anybody I found using one of those mercilessly. It's no sin to drive a small NA car. Do what you can, but don't pretend, it's just tacky. And makes you look like an idiot when people notice.

ugh, wtf is with wheel locks? I mean, I've lived in some pretty shitty parts of town but I've never had anyone steal my wheels.

It's like 300 bucks worth of shit I don't want. Also, aparently my wife's car was in an accident before I met her, so structural damage is listed in the carfax. They are offering 2k on it. Time to shop around.

I went late and when I tried to take what they wrote down, the guys all like "it's totes illegal to give you this paper." So I go "peace" and he's goes, "um, let me copy it for you, but shhhhh" Is that a thing? I can't believe that's a real thing.

I like the place but I need to hold out because now we're way above where I want to be on this.

ugh, wtf is with wheel locks? I mean, I've lived in some pretty shitty parts of town but I've never had anyone steal my wheels.

It's like 300 bucks worth of shit I don't want. Also, aparently my wife's car was in an accident before I met her, so structural damage is listed in the carfax. They are offering 2k on it. Time to shop around.

I went late and when I tried to take what they wrote down, the guys all like "it's totes illegal to give you this paper." So I go "peace" and he's goes, "um, let me copy it for you, but shhhhh" Is that a thing? I can't believe that's a real thing.

I like the place but I need to hold out because now we're way above where I want to be on this.

Wait, what paper? The carfax? You can get that online. The quote paper? That's not illegal at all. Sounds like he's trying to play good guy salesman to get you to take a lower amount.

So we get stiff once in a while. So we have a little fun. What’s wrong with that? This is a free country, isn’t it? I can take my panda any place I want to. And if I wanna buy it a drink, that’s my business.

Of course this car would be entirely impractical for the snowy weather in Colorado and I would have a hard time choosing it over a WRX. It sounds like it would be a fun track car but kinda meh as a DD.

So we get stiff once in a while. So we have a little fun. What’s wrong with that? This is a free country, isn’t it? I can take my panda any place I want to. And if I wanna buy it a drink, that’s my business.

So we get stiff once in a while. So we have a little fun. What’s wrong with that? This is a free country, isn’t it? I can take my panda any place I want to. And if I wanna buy it a drink, that’s my business.

When I was looking at the Genesis Coupe, it started at $33k. Doesn't the Subarota start at $22k or so? How are they competitors to each other? And the Genesis Coupe can't stop for shit.

Wow.

Every time you talk about something car related you are completely wrong.

The 2012s start at $22k, the 2013s starting list is $24k, but it's a Hyundai so no one pays sticker.

Also braking from 60mph in 113ft isn't "can't stop for shit."

$33k would be starting price for a Genesis SEDAN completely different than what we are talking about Mr. "Twin-Turbo V8 Camaro."

That's not true at all. I was looking at the Genesis Coupe's last year, and they were that expensive. For the new ones, they started out at a lot, and then when you add all the extras, it was waaaay too rich for my blood. Given the choice between a Mustang, WRX, or Genesis Coupe, I don't see how it can even compete there. Add in a Miata and the new Subarota, and it can't be an option at all.

I stand by the fact that the car can't stop for shit. That's a very common complaint. When I test drove it, I felt I had to leave more room between myself and the car in front of me in case he hit his brakes, more room than I normally would leave. Hell, my two-ton Lincoln stops better than the Coupe. Unless maybe this year they got their head out of their ass and put actual brakes on the car. It felt like there are drum brakes in the rear, that's how bad it stops.

L Ron Howard on April 2012

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ChimeraMonster girl with a snek tail and five eyesBad puns, that's how eye roll. Registered Userregular

Haha, poor rookie car salesperson. They don't want you to have the pricing sheet so you can't take it to another car lot and show it to them where they will give you a better deal. They can take the wheel locks off but they can't replace the nitrogen which most dealers will bundle together in that 300 dollars. My current dealership doesn't do the locks and we also have a much lower dock fee.

Before you make any decisions on a car send me your numbers in a message on here and let me look at it. We dealers 99% of the time get paid 100% by commission. As a result of this we will try to fight tooth and nail to hold as much gross possible as we can in the car. On top of that the longer you spend with a customer the more gross you loose in the deal via extended negotiating so the dealer will try to speed the sales process up to get you into the finance dpt as fast as possible. Your finance officer also makes most of his money via commission. The two ways a salesperson makes money is on the front side (the gross of the sales price) and the back side (the gross of the bank kickbacks). The front is where they get 90% of their pay and 10% on the back. When you, the customer, get all the gross stripped out of the front of the deal be ready to make that up for the salesperson in the fiance office unless you stick to your guns (this doesn't mean saying no to a warranty on a used car).

Let me help you get to a better deal with the dealer and not be taken for a ride. Trust me they will do every thing they can to profit off you and make you feel like they are not.

value > price = deal

When the value of a car in the eyes of a customer exceeds what the price of the car is, the customer will buy even if they are paying more than they have too.

It shouldn't be that hard to find out MSRP on a car. Just go to www.carpoint.com (autos.msn.com) and pick the manufacturer/model from the drop down at the top.

MSRP is still not invoice on a car and if you are looking at used cars there is no such thing as an MSRP. You just have book values which change monthly and in some cases weekly depending on the region you are in. Try and ask to see a book out on the car via NADA and make sure they don't tell NADA the vehicle is in better shape or has more optional add-ons than it really does. Furthermore the book values doesn't necessarily mean they aren't making a huge amount of money off you, they may own the car for far less than the books say its worth due to values being lower at the time they got it or because they successfully under valued the customer's trade in value. When using book values to asses the worth of your car you want to always go by the NADA and NOT THE KELLY BLUE BOOK (unless you are in California). In Texas and Oklahoma you want to look at both the Black Book and the NADA.

Right now used car values and NADA/BB/KBB book values are actually increasing as used cars become more sought after. In many cases it now is becoming a better deal for the customer to buy a new car instead of a used one UNLESS said used car is a certified pre-owned car.

I was mainly referring to the discussion of a price of a new Genisis Coupe. Of course price you pay will vary based on locations, options and etc but comparing the same trim and options should not yield a $9k difference.

I got the Kia soul base for 1% over invoice (they were literally the last place I looked, apparently the new souls are hot this year). I stuck with them instead of waiting because they offered me 4k on my wife's 06 taurus, which had been in an accident that was listed as structural damage (no one else was offering more than 2k for it). 500 down, good rate (my credit sucks but her's is good).

I didn't realize how much shit she still had in the trunk. it took me 20 minutes to clean out the car of her crap.

I still don't think anyone's made a good-looking sporty SUV. Maybe the Range Rover Sport.

Most of the others (that Lambo, the Porsche thing, BMW X6, etc.) look like someone loaded the drawings for another model into a CAD workstation and them fucked with the scale on the axes.

I don't mind the BMW x5 or the Cayenne. Plus that article says that half of porsche's income comes from the Cayenne.

The X5 isn't outright ugly, it's just kind of bland. It looks like something a 3d artist knocked up in an afternoon as a "generic SUV" object for a game. The Cayenne looks like a hearse. Something about the proportions.

It is but it seems somewhat understandable. Porsches cost lots of money and generally only older people have the money for them. Also older people often are married and have kids. I can imagine it would be easy to stuff some kids into a Cayenne but rather hard to do that in a Carrera.

Hell the S does 0-60 in 5.6 and the turbo does it in 4.3. That still beats the fuck out of most sports cars much less any other vehicle that could cart around a bunch of people/kids.

I'm finding that I'm actually having less difficulty, conceptually, with SUVs these days since most manufacturers have entirely dropped the pretence that they're 4x4 off-roaders in anything but the most vestigial sense.

It does make my wonder why people buy them over MPVs (wiki tells me these are referred to as "minivans" across the pond) given that it seems to be the same characteristics that attract people to both. There is the obvious point that SUVs tend to have sporty pretentions whereas MPVs, as a rule, haven't.

It is odd that people will buy ostensibly sporty SUVs when the few attempts at sporty MPVs have been massive flops.