I've watched every minute of this meeting on the webcast. This headline is hugely misleading. The unanimous recommendation of the subcomittee was that the only way to achieve the goals of the long range plan is the modest growth funding profile.

The committee also commented on the flat-flat funding profiles because it was in their charge, but the committee noted explicitly that the decision in this case (slight preference for FRIB over RHIC) was- not a concensus- not motivated by the science (the science at RHIC, FRIB, and CEBAF is equally strong)- time-dependent (a meeting only a few years ago ranked RHIC highest) and likely to change- likely will cause a 'death spiral' for all nuclear science in the US - although the committee is very much avoiding this specific term.

wjllope:I've watched every minute of this meeting on the webcast. This headline is hugely misleading. The unanimous recommendation of the subcomittee was that the only way to achieve the goals of the long range plan is the modest growth funding profile.

The committee also commented on the flat-flat funding profiles because it was in their charge, but the committee noted explicitly that the decision in this case (slight preference for FRIB over RHIC) was- not a concensus- not motivated by the science (the science at RHIC, FRIB, and CEBAF is equally strong)- time-dependent (a meeting only a few years ago ranked RHIC highest) and likely to change- likely will cause a 'death spiral' for all nuclear science in the US - although the committee is very much avoiding this specific term.

Now why would they go to any lengths to avoid a term like "Death Spiral"? Because, honestly, I'm pretty sure they could pick up additional funding through the military that way.

"When life gives you lemons, don't make lemonade. Make life take the lemons back! Get mad! I don't want your damn lemons, what the hell am I supposed to do with these? Demand to see life's manager! Make life rue the day it thought it could give Cave Johnson lemons! Do you know who I am? I'm the man who's gonna burn your house down! With the lemons! I'm gonna get my engineers to invent a combustible lemon that burns your house down!"

mark12A:I really don't see any new science coming out of these accelerators. They've done all the experiments they can with them. If anything new is going to be found, it's going to happen at the LHC.

LHC can't do polarized protons. LHC can't do asymmetric species. LHC can't do low energy scans. LHC can't do nuclei above Pb. RHIC can do all of those things. There's plenty of good science to be done at other facilities--it's not just about the temperature of your oven, it's also about how you oven works.

DECMATH:The trouble with government programs, even good ones, is they are kind of like tribbles. They eat all our food, cooing gleefully, and multiplying. Then we wonder what happened to all our food.

You clearly are not familiar with the sad state of science funding in the US.

Squirrelit:LHC can't do polarized protons. LHC can't do asymmetric species. LHC can't do low energy scans. LHC can't do nuclei above Pb. RHIC can do all of those things. There's plenty of good science to be done at other facilities--it's not just about the temperature of your oven, it's also about how you oven works.

Squirrelit:LHC can't do polarized protons. LHC can't do asymmetric species. LHC can't do low energy scans. LHC can't do nuclei above Pb. RHIC can do all of those things. There's plenty of good science to be done at other facilities--it's not just about the temperature of your oven, it's also about how you oven works.

Waitaminute, I thought we ordered all that stuff for the LHC, plus the undercoating package.

I got to talk briefly to Nick Holonyak on the 50th anniversary of his first successful L.E.D. He was still sharp, and sharper still in his anger that US basic research in so many areas is falling behind because you can't immediately commercialize every little thing you find out. yet, it is just that kind of basic research that eventually opens up entire new fields and the business opportunities that come with them.

Representative of the unwashed masses:logieal: FTA: "RHIC uses twin accelerators to smash heavy nuclei together to produce fleeting puffs of a weird type of matter called a quark gluon plasma that filled the newborn universe."

[www.startrek.com image 320x240]

So there's your problem.

How about funding for the new station?

The Superconducting Supercollider was cancelled in the 1990s in favor of the space station.

JohnAnnArbor:Representative of the unwashed masses: logieal: FTA: "RHIC uses twin accelerators to smash heavy nuclei together to produce fleeting puffs of a weird type of matter called a quark gluon plasma that filled the newborn universe."

[www.startrek.com image 320x240]

So there's your problem.

How about funding for the new station?

The Superconducting Supercollider was cancelled in the 1990s in favor of the space station.

False choice. Was the defense budget too big at the time? Then it was cancelled in favor of that much of the defense budget.

JohnAnnArbor:The Superconducting Supercollider was cancelled in the 1990s in favor of the space station.

The SSC was originally going to be an extension of FermiLab, but some asshat congress critter pushed hard to move it to Waxahachie, TX, which sent it way over budget since now instead of just the ring, they needed the whole shebang, acceleration rings and a lab to analyze the results. If it had been at FermiLab, they would have been able to make use of the existing gear.

I would have loved to see the thing finished, whether built in Texas or Illinois.

Nem Wan:False choice. Was the defense budget too big at the time? Then it was cancelled in favor of that much of the defense budget.

No kidding. And the worst part about it is that the bloated defense budget undermines our military more than it supports it. The military value of shiat is a distant second to whose district its in and how well funded the corporate lobbyists there are. Same is true for big science, but at least we get something done and are able to maintain something of an expertise base.

Best of all, now the focus of the US budget is on keeping a bunch of fat sick drug addicts fat sick and buying drugs.

Cucullen:Nem Wan: False choice. Was the defense budget too big at the time? Then it was cancelled in favor of that much of the defense budget.

No kidding. And the worst part about it is that the bloated defense budget undermines our military more than it supports it. The military value of shiat is a distant second to whose district its in and how well funded the corporate lobbyists there are. Same is true for big science, but at least we get something done and are able to maintain something of an expertise base.

Best of all, now the focus of the US budget is on keeping a bunch of fat sick drug addicts fat sick and buying drugs.

/Yeah Science!

Right, cause if they increased the nuclear SCIENCE! budget, we would all become bicycle riding, nature loving hippies.