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I am afraid with men it is all visual at least initially. They don't care a hoot about your education or intelligence if they don't want to bed you. They may appreciate you as a person but you would be friendzoned. That is the way it is and always has been.

LettialLegrande (see message 12) Oh no kidding!

And these same guys are the ones who ask these same women in this predicament........"you have so much to offer.....why are you still single?"

Or worse yet.....you go on a "first meet" with these guys, get friendzoned with a the promises of being able to go to movies, dinner, day trips, etc, they will call next week and you never hear from them....until many months, and even years down the road with them calling you up because all their options and prospects ran dry and they are now bored, lonely, and want to get laid. My answer...is I don't answer them.

They couldn't give me a chance then, I can't give them one now.

To take it a step further.........we hear the same "dating war stories" from these same men who complain they attract the 'losers".

Case in point......I was briefly communicating with a guy on here who is 51 years old, never had a relationship last past 6 months, never been married, no kids, etc. share all his dating war stories with me.....the welfare queens, the women who had multiple kids by multiple men, and in some cases had no clue as to who the father of these said kids is, women who had no job looking for a free ride, come from "welfare families", no education, no quality, no morals or values, and the list goes on.

Yet he is in the same group of men who CLAIM they want an intelligent, educated, professional woman with much to offer.....but when it comes down to the brass tacks.....they still go for the types of women I just listed above.

In fact, I'll take it a step further....he lives roughly an hour away from me.....I invited him on a day we both had off to meet me halfway for a cup of coffee in a small town that has a host of antique shops, a nice bakery, and a few other amenities. He didn't show up. Yet he tried to contact me the next day.....and I just blocked him and moved on. His loss.

I found out a month later from a mutual person who knows both of us.....he was once again......dating yet another "loser type" and was complaining about it.

I rest my case. Amen

Castlehillsmile (see message 25)

I fit into the same as dpwesu...Mature women, who are educated with a profession need to be gorgeous and look and act like a 20 year old bimbo. Hence the cosmetics and cosmetic surgery industry. Bottom of the pack.

Again. Not for lack of trying. Looks like both of us have given up and are only here for the forums.

Amen to that....I have never, ever gotten anywhere acting like a bimbo....even when I WAS 20 years old.

Patchjoker, usually I totally disagree with you. However this time, I totally agree with your statements.

1. Unbalanced ratios.

This is quite right. Women get about 300 emails in short periods of time from all kinds of men. Hot women get those numbers a day, above average get those numbers in a week, not so hot get those numbers on the first month here. Because of that most women feel overwhelmed and give up. Men in the other hand feel angry, so they start to lash out, or do mass e-mailings. All counter productive tactics that produce no results. Also notice how there are this super hotties that are year after year still in Match or POF. Are they real? Yes they are. I went out with one of them. And have met some of the others in my area by seeing them on a date at the usual type of places people go on dates. These women are still here because they expect men to be perfect, good looking, with money and a Harley, and put up with all the high maintenance crap that they dish.

2. It makes guys look desperate.

There's a great deal of truth about this statement. That is why you don't tell women, "You look hot!" Or go into one of those diatrives where you say MY FRIENDS say that I am this crap, and that crap and more crap. Even when women use that "My Friends say" I find it as a total turn off. Instead of saying that you are a nice guy, show what you do. "I love to spend my afternoons shooting pedestrians with my pain ball drone." That will show exactly what you're about.

3. The lack of verbal and nonverbal communication.

This is true as well. But it's easily solved. Jokes and sarcasm do not work well online because you don't know if they are being serious. Second, meet sooner not later. Also, don't spell all your bean online. Wait to tell your juicy stories in person. And here's a cruel reality. Everything you say online will count against you. Anything that you say in person, will count towards you. Even if it's a story about how you got beaten up as a kid and learned to have humility, only in real life something like that will resonate. And if you tell her online, when you try to tell her that story in real life, she will say, "you told me so." And soon you run out of your life stories and that stupid silence that most men do not know how to handle ensues.

4. More and more women see OLD as a hostile environment.

Very true. That is why you should search for the newbies. They are not jaded, tainted, used and abused. Maybe in real life but not online. So start looking at profiles and sending emails on Sunday. Why Sunday? Because usually they spend a weekend alone, or with some female friends and they were told that if they got online their lives would change and for some weird reason the day they sign in is Sunday.

Realize one more thing. Because OLD sucks, it means that those that navigate the difficulties, understand the medium, will not only thrive, they will find even better partners that they had expected.

Women get about 300 emails in short periods of time from all kinds of men. Hot women get those numbers a day, above average get those numbers in a week, not so hot get those numbers on the first month here.

Ugh. Stop flipping saying this. It is not true. I have lots of friends who are younger and more attractive than me. NONE of them get this many emails. Not even the ones in big cities. Check out other forums that have a MUCH larger rate of participation. You will see that they are in agreement that they do NOT receive anywhere near this amount of messages. I have been OLD for over a decade. I never got that many messages. I don't even get that many in a year's time spread out over a half a dozen different sites. Now if I want to say that I take on all men or show some nipple or make it VERY clear that I just want to have nsa encounters? Sure. My inbox would overflow. But most normal women looking for a normal age appropriate relationship do not get hundreds of messages.

Ugh. Stop flipping saying this. It is not true. I have lots of friends who are younger and more attractive than me.

Sory Spot, but in my market area, which is Atlanta, where I know a lot of women that dated on line, those numbers are true.Maybe they were lying but, several women that were "friends" in their frustration showed me the number of emails they were getting a day.

Remember that you're in Amelia Island. Even if every single men, married, with internet connection or not, you will get about 7 emails.

Also, in my market, the number one reason why many women I've met stop OLD was because they were overwhelmed by the number of mind numbing emails.

And....I am not hot or showing either one of my nipples. Go figure. **shrugs shoulders**

I will differ with your statement. Perhaps I am getting old, but I have to say that the burners are scorching red when it comes to your "ehemm" physical appearance. And don't take it as a complement, but a matter of fact.

I have to agree with InnerGorilla, kj521 is smoking hot! I can easily believe that she would get 300 messages in 3 days.

Here in Houston, the same kinds of numbers apply. Hot women can easily get 100 messages a day. I know, I have talked to some of the younger women at work about this, and seen their inboxes.

But let’s go back to the list posted by castlehillsmile:

1: Single men over 40 who are handsome, charming, employed and solvent have it the best. 2: Young, pretty women are second. 3: Older women next.4: Then young men5: Anyone fat or with lousy photos6. MGTOW or people who whine or have their profile full of negativity

If I were creating such a list, I would make a few changes. I think no one in the world has it as good as young pretty women.

My list, based on my reading here in the forums, and my observations in real life:

1. Young pretty women2. Older women who still look attractive3. Single men over 40 who are handsome, charming, employed and solvent4. Older women who haven’t worked as hard at keeping their looks5. Young men6. Anyone badly overweight or with lousy / no photos7. MGTOW or people who whine / negative profiles

I would say that 2 and 3 are a virtual tie. Older women who have managed to keep their looks, either through working very hard, paying for cosmetic surgery, or just being born with good genes can have a very easy time of it. They can choose from a wide variety of men, both young and old.

And about “men over 40 who are handsome, charming, employed and solvent” – how about 3 out of 4? (smile)

When I unhide my profile I do get 200-300 messages in about three days.Now....it does slow down to about 10 a day when I am no longer "new".

And....I am not hot or showing either one of my nipples. Go figure. **shrugs shoulders**

10 messages a day is still a lot though.

You and several other woman have claimed that I'm attractive and possess positive qualities that women would likeuite frankly I don't see it) and I'm lucky if I get 10 messages in a month and that's over 3 different dating sites. (POF, , Tinder) I may get matches but one out of 20 matches translates to a message. There are certain time periods in which I'm on "FIRE!" (In my Gohan Super Saiyan voice) but that's still only 5 messages in a week or two. I could message 100 women and wouldn't get 10 replies back and they could be the , most well thought out messages ever.

I read about all about how bad OLD is. I know it, you know it. Not very popular? Think again-

Match Group had their IPO today on the NASDAQ. From their announcement, their stock rose 23%- In one day. Would you invest in this mess? Apparently, somebody thinks that OLD is going places. Certainly none of us think that way. We know better.

Now, we're ether doing it wrong, Or the "magic" formula for being successful on here has eluded us. OR- there's a ton of really dumb investors that have put good money into this. I'm inclined to believe the latter. The investors must all be married and have zero idea on how unsuccessful OLD really is. I wouldn't invest a nickle in this. (Oh, excuse me $14.74 a share)

Now, we're ether doing it wrong, Or the "magic" formula for being successful on here has eluded us. OR- there's a ton of really dumb investors that have put good money into this. I'm inclined to believe the latter. The investors must all be married and have zero idea on how unsuccessful OLD really is. I wouldn't invest a nickle in this. (Oh, excuse me $14.74 a share)

It's not really about the success of online dating, it's the amount of money online dating makes a year, it sounds harsh but investors don't care if you find a wife or not, they care if you're giving the sites traffic and paying for memberships. It's the lack of success of dating in general that's creating the money, if you find success then you delete your profile and stop joining dating sites that are apart of match group, they just need enough people to find relationships to build up their numbers to justify charging money.

Number of messages really doesn't matter if the end result is same. :)

Yea but at least you're getting messages that you have at least the options and the chance to find someone. I'm not even getting the chance to fail.

Now....I don't remember saying you were attractive....so let me rectify that.Yes. You are handsome and rather lovely from your postings. :)

It is indeed sad that an intelligent, professional woman in middle age, with her own home or two, cars etc. comfortably off, finds it hard to connect with a man of her equal status that she finds attractive. A man in the same position would have women and younger hotter ones, lining up for him.

You and several other woman have claimed that I'm attractive and possess positive qualities that women would likeuite frankly I don't see it

That's because it's more talk, talk, talk from the masses.No offense to you and any fine qualities you have.

and I'm lucky if I get 10 messages in a month and that's over 3 different dating sites. (POF, , Tinder) I may get matches but one out of 20 matches translates to a message

I could message 100 women and wouldn't get 10 replies back and they could be the , most well thought out messages ever.

And that's the reality beyond the talk.

Yea but at least you're getting messages that you have at least the options and the chance to find someone. I'm not even getting the chance to fail.

It's like the difference between the guy who strikes out at the plate in a baseball game, versus the guy who rides the bench and never even gets up to bat to swing at a pitch.

I read about all about how bad OLD is. I know it, you know it. Not very popular? Think again-

Match Group had their IPO today on the NASDAQ. From their announcement, their stock rose 23%- In one day. Would you invest in this mess? Apparently, somebody thinks that OLD is going places. Certainly none of us think that way. We know better.

Now, we're ether doing it wrong, Or the "magic" formula for being successful on here has eluded us. OR- there's a ton of really dumb investors that have put good money into this. I'm inclined to believe the latter. The investors must all be married and have zero idea on how unsuccessful OLD really is. I wouldn't invest a nickle in this. (Oh, excuse me $14.74 a share)

I'm thinking it may be more like a losing sports team that still makes a profit on the bottom line. Even if no one ever makes a match, the revenue is still coming in.

1. Young pretty women2. Older women who still look attractive3. Single men over 40 who are handsome, charming, employed and solvent4. Older women who haven’t worked as hard at keeping their looks5. Young men6. Anyone badly overweight or with lousy / no photos7. MGTOW or people who whine / negative profiles

I would tend to agree with this. Although I might switch 3 and 4.

When I unhide my profile I do get 200-300 messages in about three days.Now....it does slow down to about 10 a day when I am no longer "new".

I might get 10-12 emails in a week after I added new and photos of myself. But that number would gradually decrease. I think getting more emails can be a double edged sword. Yes people will have more options to date someone that they probably wouldn't have seen in their normal routine. However some people can raise their expectation level and develop the "grass is greener" attitude.

When I unhide my profile I do get 200-300 messages in about three days. Now....it does slow down to about 10 a day when I am no longer "new".

And....I am not hot or showing either one of my nipples. Go figure. **shrugs shoulders**

well kj521 (see message 36)

that's all fine and well......but the thing of it is....judging by your photos....you meet what I call the "desired societal standard" all- American blonde and cute gal...those of us out here who aren't......don't stand a chance no matter how sweet, charming, educated, professional or hard working we are.

I have dark brown hair, green eyes, heavier set, a 3 time college graduate (thank you), still attend school, work in a business my family owns, put in 12-16 hour days, don't take off the government dole, don't have multiple kids from multiple men......etc.

I can be sweet, and charming all day long.....and guys aren't going to go for someone like myself.

Yet I get asked all the time "a good person like you....why are you still single?" What I'd like to say....is men do not go for women like myself because it is true.

Or worse yet.....you go on a "first meet" with these guys, get friendzoned with a the promises of being able to go to movies, dinner, day trips, etc, they will call next week and you never hear from them....until many months, and even years down the road with them calling you up because all their options and prospects ran dry and they are now bored, lonely, and want to get laid. My answer...is I don't answer them.

They couldn't give me a chance then, I can't give them one now.

Bottom of the barrel people. They're not worth it. Glad you saw that.

To take it a step further.........we hear the same "dating war stories" from these same men who complain they attract the 'losers".

Case in point......I was briefly communicating with a guy on here who is 51 years old, never had a relationship last past 6 months, never been married, no kids, etc. share all his dating war stories with me.....the welfare queens, the women who had multiple kids by multiple men, and in some cases had no clue as to who the father of these said kids is, women who had no job looking for a free ride, come from "welfare families", no education, no quality, no morals or values, and the list goes on.

My advice is the next time some turd brings up any of his self-inflicted dating wounds from his dating past, don't agree to meet them. That man is a POS; he doesn't respect them NOR you and your time and effort in making room in your schedule for him/.