Topic: Rights act 'impossible in Iraq'

It would be "impossible" to apply the European Convention on Human Rights to British troops in Iraq, the High Court heard on Thursday.

The court is hearing a challenge over the deaths of six Iraqis allegedly at the hands of British soldiers.

The families are seeking a ruling forcing a "full and independent" inquiry into the deaths.

Government QC Christopher Greenwood said applying the convention would mean "war as it has never been fought".

But that did not mean there was a legal black hole operating in the country, he said.

Judges heard on Wednesday that British troops had killed a 26-year-old hotel worker by repeatedly beating him on the neck, chest and genital areas.

On Thursday, Rabinder Singh QC said the failure to adequately investigate had breached the Iraqis' human rights.

The six test cases also include the shootings of five Iraqi civilians.

Four of the victims were either at home, walking in the street or driving when they were shot, allegedly by soldiers from the King's Own Regiment.

The deaths of hotel worker Baha Mousa and an Iraqi police commissioner shot while on his way to a judge's house were allegedly caused by soldiers from the Queen's Lancashire Regiment.

Mr Singh said that in five of the cases investigations had been ruled out by the commanding officer or those in his command chain.

"The troubling factor, among others, is there is often reference to how investigations would be futile.

"There were no autopsies, no statements from external witnesses."

The sixth case relating to the death of Mr Mousa "illustrates how different it can be", Mr Singh said.

"We are told about forensics, photos and the bringing in of pathologists."

Rights act

Two High Court judges must decide whether the Human Rights Act 1998 applies to the British troops in south-east Iraq during the period of occupation and, if so, whether there should be an independent inquiry to investigate the alleged post-war deaths of a total of 37 Iraqi civilians.

Mr Singh told the judges European human rights laws, which protect the right to life and freedom from torture or inhuman and degrading treatment, applied to troops in Iraq.

Rights act

Two High Court judges must decide whether the Human Rights Act 1998 applies to the British troops in south-east Iraq during the period of occupation and, if so, whether there should be an independent inquiry to investigate the alleged post-war deaths of a total of 37 Iraqi civilians.

Mr Singh told the judges European human rights laws, which protect the right to life and freedom from torture or inhuman and degrading treatment, applied to troops in Iraq.

"I literally could not bear to look at him"
--Daoud Mousa

Iraq case crucial for UK military
But Professor Greenwood argued the convention would only extend outside a European state's territory when it has effective control of that territory.

"The UK has never had effective control of south-eastern Iraq," he told the court.

The International Committee of the Red Cross (ICRC) report on the treatment of Iraqi detainees by coalition troops has not been published officially but leaked copies of the document are available on the Wall Street Journal's website.

The report does not generally distinguish between British and American forces but there are specific criticisms which appear to be aimed at areas under British command. Those are:

The ICRC examined the arrest of nine men, one of whom died, by coalition forces in Basra on 13 September 2003.

"Following their arrest, the nine men were made to kneel, face and hands against the ground, as if in a prayer position.

"The soldiers stamped on the back of the neck of those raising their head. They confiscated their money without issuing a receipt."

The report says the men were later "severely beaten" by coalition troops.

"One of the arrestees died following the ill-treatment... Prior to his death, his co-arrestees heard him screaming and asking for assistance."

The report says the death certificate for the 28-year-old married father-of-two mentioned "cardio-respiratory arrest - asphyxia" as the condition leading to his death but said its cause was "unknown" and should be referred to the coroner.

Eyewitnesses told the ICRC the man had a broken nose, several broken ribs and cuts to the face "consistent with beatings".

On 3 October, the commander of the coalition forces in Basra offered the man's father his condolences, said an investigation had been launched and that those responsible would be punished, the report continues.

It says two of the other men arrested were put in hospital with "severe injuries".

Concerns are raised about the interrogation section of the Umm Qasr camp, run initially by British forces, then by the Americans, and from 25 September 2003 by British troops again.

The ICRC told the commander of British Armed Forces on 1 April 2003 at the coalition central command base in Doha about ill-treatment used by military intelligence officers at the camp.

"This intervention had the immediate effect to stop the systematic use of hoods and flexi-cuffs in the interrogation section of Umm Qasr."

A man "claimed his car was confiscated when he was arrested by the CF (Coalition Forces) in Basra on 16 July 2003", adds the report.

Topic: what?????

Whats that supposed to prove? Uk arn't the only ones being like this other countries have done worse and i think we know who

December 14th, 2004

SwordFish_13

Hi,

Quote:

Whats that supposed to prove?

Human Right Condition In Iraq maybe ?

Quote:

Uk arn't the only ones being like this other countries have done worse and i think we know who

because they are a part of Coailition Troops iwould sy it's a group responsibility ..............But s i took thsoe Articles form BBC it might be the cause as they wouldhave wanted to focus on their Country and troops more so gave a More UK prspersciptive of thngs ? .....that's why there is more mantion of UK there ? .................and a reason because others are doing worse we can also do a bit of it too is not a valid reason or is it ?

Peace
-=SF_13=-

--

December 14th, 2004

Italian Guy

Topic: Re: what?????

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anya1982

Whats that supposed to prove? Uk arn't the only ones being like this other countries have done worse and i think we know who

You might also mean that since the US did wrong the others can do the same? Cm on.